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Originally posted by Axxar...in terms of making the populations roughly equal. Each side has two "pretty" races and one "monstrous" race.

Maybe you're forgetting that Nords and Argonians and Dunmer are the most popular races and every poll about what faction people are going to choose has Ebonheart with 50-60% of the votes across the board.

Ebonheart will be the cominant faction no matter what. They put no thought into balance, they just grabbed the races that lived next to each other (or in Hammerfell's face, on top of each other).

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Originally posted by Axxar...in terms of making the populations roughly equal. Each side has two "pretty" races and one "monstrous" race.

Maybe you're forgetting that Nords and Argonians and Dunmer are the most popular races and every poll about what faction people are going to choose has Ebonheart with 50-60% of the votes across the board.

Ebonheart will be the cominant faction no matter what. They put no thought into balance, they just grabbed the races that lived next to each other (or in Hammerfell's face, on top of each other).

ah come on loads of people play as rogues - typically kahjit if going melee or wood elf if going bow, or just kahjit anyway because kahjit are cool.

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They could have let the factions be non race related and let people fight for the 'cause' they saw best fitting their character but I guess that was too hard to program :(

The one thing I really do not like about the game so far from what I have heard is how they have designed the faction and race restrictions along with map restrictions based on faction/race. I want to play a Breton who fights alongside the Nords....can't though!

I also want to be able to trade with the Elves...but again I can't because I cannot enter their lands.

I also want to remain out if the fight and be factionless....but I can't.

The whole faction/race limitations are going the be the one thing that will stop me getting the game unless they really do a good job with the rest of the game and even then I am not sure I will get it.

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I think the race spread is fine tbh, its just unfortunate that Morrowind and Skyrim are next to each other, because those (and Cyrodil, but thats ok as its the shared pvp map) will be the places most people want to revisit.

Only thing they can do about it imho is release faction trailers and make the other factions look more interesting/cooler than the Ebonheart Pact, but tbh no matter how nice they make them look, the desire to revisit the massive shrooms of Morrowind will still be a massive draw

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They could have let the factions be non race related and let people fight for the 'cause' they saw best fitting their character but I guess that was too hard to program :(

The one thing I really do not like about the game so far from what I have heard is how they have designed the faction and race restrictions along with map restrictions based on faction/race. I want to play a Breton who fights alongside the Nords....can't though!

I also want to be able to trade with the Elves...but again I can't because I cannot enter their lands.

I also want to remain out if the fight and be factionless....but I can't.

The whole faction/race limitations are going the be the one thing that will stop me getting the game unless they really do a good job with the rest of the game and even then I am not sure I will get it.

I think it could be kind of a cool mechanic if you had a sort of reputation system with the major factions. You'd be well liked by your starting faction, but hated by the opposing factions. But each faction would have spies and such in the enemy factions which you could do tasks for to change the reputations. This way you could slowly work towards a faction change until you're hunted out of your own area. But this sort of stuff is likely to be difficult to do since I'm getting the impression they're going for a very scripted leveling experience. But maybe it could be a feature unlocked when you hit the level cap.

As long as they make the grind to switch difficult enough, most players will still stay with their starting faction, preserving the racial makeup of that faction. But there'll be a few exceptions, as there would be if it was "real."

"Tiny clown, he got wet. I was talking to a psychic and I can't sleep in the ozone. There are too many different peanuts, looking sad.

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Originally posted by deakon

I think the race spread is fine tbh, its just unfortunate that Morrowind and Skyrim are next to each other, because those (and Cyrodil, but thats ok as its the shared pvp map) will be the places most people want to revisit.

Only thing they can do about it imho is release faction trailers and make the other factions look more interesting/cooler than the Ebonheart Pact, but tbh no matter how nice they make them look, the desire to revisit the massive shrooms of Morrowind will still be a massive draw

I think you underestimate how much fans of the series will want to revisit places they havn't done in a very long time. I know myself I wanted to play Dunmer (Dark Elf) but after more thought I am seriously wanting to go play in Elsweyr (from Arena days) Valenwood or Hammerfell (From Daggerfall).

Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

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Originally posted by Axxar...in terms of making the populations roughly equal. Each side has two "pretty" races and one "monstrous" race.

Maybe you're forgetting that Nords and Argonians and Dunmer are the most popular races and every poll about what faction people are going to choose has Ebonheart with 50-60% of the votes across the board.Ebonheart will be the cominant faction no matter what. They put no thought into balance, they just grabbed the races that lived next to each other (or in Hammerfell's face, on top of each other).

ah come on loads of people play as rogues - typically kahjit if going melee or wood elf if going bow, or just kahjit anyway because kahjit are cool.

"Rogue" wood elf if i were to play... Which is on the cards but some of there systems worry me very much..

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Originally posted by Axxar...in terms of making the populations roughly equal. Each side has two "pretty" races and one "monstrous" race.

Maybe you're forgetting that Nords and Argonians and Dunmer are the most popular races and every poll about what faction people are going to choose has Ebonheart with 50-60% of the votes across the board.

Ebonheart will be the cominant faction no matter what. They put no thought into balance, they just grabbed the races that lived next to each other (or in Hammerfell's face, on top of each other).

ah come on loads of people play as rogues - typically kahjit if going melee or wood elf if going bow, or just kahjit anyway because kahjit are cool.

Well, if you want to talk rogues, there's nothing better than an Argonian. Shadowscale anyone?

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Originally posted by Axxar...in terms of making the populations roughly equal. Each side has two "pretty" races and one "monstrous" race.

Maybe you're forgetting that Nords and Argonians and Dunmer are the most popular races and every poll about what faction people are going to choose has Ebonheart with 50-60% of the votes across the board.

Ebonheart will be the cominant faction no matter what. They put no thought into balance, they just grabbed the races that lived next to each other (or in Hammerfell's face, on top of each other).

If those numbers are true, then that's very sad to hear. Don't get me wrong, I'm not jumping to any conclusions, but a few months ago I did make a thread where I simply expressed concern over the three faction system, pointing out to the population imbalances that hurt RvR on many DAOC servers. I was pretty much laughed at and called all sorts of names, even one jackass who accused me of being "new to MMOs" despite my detailed recounts of a game released in 2001.

That being said, I'm looking forward to this game. I love the lore of the Elder Scrolls and I think it's a fantastic MMO setting. I'm an open-minded person and I've found enjoyment in plenty of MMOs that everyone else seems to hate. I simply hope that Zenimax (That's the developer, right?) is preparing some sort of system to address issues of faction population imbalance. Because the absolute worst thing that can happen to someone is to invest time into a specific server, only to find out later that you're on the side that has less than 20% of the server population in a game based all around faction PvP.

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They pretty much butchered faction balance when they the top 3 popular races all in the same faction not to mention it doesn't make much sense how the Argonians would from an alliance with a race that enslaves them. And who says that you need to divide the races evenly into the factions?

Unless they somehow make it where they limit the amount of people into Cyrodiil that are in an overpopulated faction I would say that PvP will be greatly imbalanced. I'm was on Jade Querry in GW2 and almost eveytime I checked out how the WvWvW is going they would almost always be dominating WvWvW so I don't buy the whole two lesser factions will team up on the larger faction.

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Originally posted by Ambros123

They pretty much butchered faction balance when they the top 3 popular races all in the same faction not to mention it doesn't make much sense how the Argonians would from an alliance with a race that enslaves them. And who says that you need to divide the races evenly into the factions?

Unless they somehow make it where they limit the amount of people into Cyrodiil that are in an overpopulated faction I would say that PvP will be greatly imbalanced. I'm was on Jade Querry in GW2 and almost eveytime I checked out how the WvWvW is going they would almost always be dominating WvWvW so I don't buy the whole two lesser factions will team up on the larger faction.

To be fair, if you've checked out the lore writing on the official website, it gives a fairly reasonable description of the Ebonheart's races. Basically, the main website seems to hint that the Ebonheart is strong when it comes to raw military power, but centuries of conflict have left plenty of distrust between the three races. So they have a major weakness in that they lack the unity and trust that the races of their rival factions have for each other.

And I agree with what you say about two lesser factions double-teaming the bigger one. People love to talk about it, but it never even happened in DAOC.

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Originally posted by UWNVME

To be fair, if you've checked out the lore writing on the official website, it gives a fairly reasonable description of the Ebonheart's races. Basically, the main website seems to hint that the Ebonheart is strong when it comes to raw military power, but centuries of conflict have left plenty of distrust between the three races. So they have a major weakness in that they lack the unity and trust that the races of their rival factions have for each other.

And I agree with what you say about two lesser factions double-teaming the bigger one. People love to talk about it, but it never even happened in DAOC.

The point you make about the Ebonheart having a weakness of trust and unity is fine except.....how will that affect players? It won't I suspect. Will the distrust mean members of the Ebonheart can attack each other more ofter? How exactly will the weakness actually have any effect on the game?

This weakness is purely story based and will not have any effect in the game that I can tell. All this is, from the current information is an artificial mechanic to emulate the 3 faction fights that were in DAOC that the developer thinks is a sure bet. I think he is making a mistake. I think that the ability to actually think through this design concept has been glossed over simply because "DOAC worked, 3 factions are the way to go".

For DOAC2 it might have fit but I think TESO deserved someone to sit down and deisgn system that works for TESO. A system that is inclusive of exploration, not restrictions based on faction. A system that allows players to choose any race and play any class and work anywhere they are willing to go if they accept the risks, not where the risks are totally removed by invisible walls.

I keep reading about this game and I keep slapping my head in dismay. I am sad with their design idea's.