Messages - EchoLocation

for me, the eos-m destroys this camera. especially for the price. I don't see how this can be priced at the 750ish price point when the M is 300 bucks with the 22mm f2 lens. maybe that's just me.it seems to me like if you really want an all in one, non ILC then the Sony RX100 II is way better than this... if someone disagrees please explain why.

this has got to be the most under supported mirrorless camera available. Samsung, Sony, Olympus, etc have 12,000 variations of every model and are constantly releasing new products to the market.meanwhile, Canon has released one underspecced EOS-M body, and 3 lenses, one of which isn't available in America, even after being on the market for a long while.While i'm not a fan of the brands releasing crap cameras with minor updates constantly(a la the 18mp rebel, 550D, 600D, 650D, 700D,) the current Canon strategy of releasing nothing ever is a little disconcerting for people like me who have bought in to this system.I don't understand why they didn't release any new M bodies in 2013, especially for the holidays, and furthermore, why they still haven't released the 11-22 in the US(I thought they were waiting for a holiday 2013 release along with the M2, but that has passed.)It's about time Canon releases some other products in to this line before I decide to cut my losses and sell my EOS-M while it is still the current model.Pretty soon i'll be able to get a used Sony a7 to have as a second camera to my current baby, the Sony a7! I'm starting to see the current M as a red headed step child left out in the cold by an aloof and indifferent parent.

Neuro's post is exactly what I was thinking. When i hear of people on the the net talking about metal mount, i'm usually thinking of the outside part of the lens that physically touches the camera body, not the inside of the lens that this metal piece attaches to. This is echoed by terms like M-Mount, R-Mount, E-Mount(excuse me, spending a lot of time in RF land these days.)However, I really enjoyed this article, and I would never argue about camera terms with someone who obviously knows so much more about the subject than I will ever knowI do however also believe that modern plastics are often superior to metals in many situations, and I also agree with the statement in the article that plastic simply breaks when dropped while metal twists and creates alignment issues.I was also unaware that this was such a heated issue as of late? is there really that much of a controversy going on in Olympus land? All in all a really interesting and fun article to read.

It doesn't sound very exciting at all. I agree with others though that 2013 was a super dull on the Canon front. I hope Canon releases some new smaller sized full frame cameras in 2014 and anything a little different.

I still don't understand who these full frame mirorrless cameras are aimed at, aside from a hobbyist with a lot of money to burn.

-Average consumer, it is too expensive-Camera-oriented gadget freak, would probably rather have a cameraphone like the Lumia 1020-Compact camera fan, the zoom lenses are too big to truck around - all these pics don't look much smaller than a 6D w/ lens.-Professional, would rather have a real DSLR with viewfinder through lens, more physical buttons, big lens selection, bigger body to grip

So what is left for this camera? Hobbyists with a lot of cash? I guess that is the market they are going for.

I bought one. i'm a 32 year old who has been in to photography since learning in a darkroom in the early 90's with my mom's old Minolta.For years, i was dissatisfied with digital cameras because of their poor image quality and generally stayed away. In 2008 I bought a top of the line Sony Cyber Shot for a 3 month backpacking trip to South America. In 2010 I was in Hong Kong traveling and finally bought a Canon DSLR. I was excited to have better image quality. i was never happy with APS-C, the crop factor, and always wanted the best low light abilities. I traveled for about 10 months using the 550D and taking tons of photos. After I finished traveling I wanted something to better suit my 24-105 lens, so I traded up to a used 5DC but it always seemed a little antiquated(terrible AF and back screen.)So, I bought a used D700 and 24-70 2.8 for the AF and image quality. It was simply amazing, but after traveling in Japan for a month last year, my shoulders and back were sore every day from hanging 5 pounds around my neck and shoulders for 8 to 10 hours a day of walking around and sightseeing. Additionally, I like to carry a camera in my bag and when I walk to my work, or come home I like to take some pictures. This is at night and poor image quality annoys me, but my D700 took up my WHOLE backpack and made it a chore to carry, the opposite of fun.So, I have been eagerly awaiting something that offers top of the line image quality, but in a size that doesn't hurt my shoulders and back. Something that is manageable.Sure, my D700 is fantastic, and If I had to have the best chance of getting the picture, i'd use that(mostly because of the AF and great ergonomics), but, I simply never carried it in my bag, so I was never able to use it.If I go to local game, or I just want to go out for a few hour and shoot some pictures, I can use my D700 no problem. but for carrying daily in my backpack, backpacking, hiking, or for my wife, the a7 is 1000x times better.I don't make money on my photos... but I do enjoy doing it. And I could never say I enjoyed carrying my D700 around.i bought my a7 last week. I got a small very high quality case for it and it now sits in my backpack every day.When I go to work, or go out, I ALWAYS have it now. I don't even notice it's in my bag. So now, photography can be a fun hobby for me again, instead of a (literally) pain in the neck, back and shoulders.

And, this is saying nothing about how AWESOME the a7 is at manual focusing. This is something I loved about my early days but had totally lost using DSLRs. I Love slowing down a little bit, composing my shots, using focus peaking and magnification and focusing myself! Despite it's small size, the a7 does have all the manual controls, knobs and buttons of a normal DSLR. The layout and programmable buttons are far easier and more useful to me than the D700 or 5DC. The Sony a7 is the closest thing to the old school shooting experience I have seen outside of the Leica.

In all, I'd say the a7 is for anyone who appreciates having absolute top image quality but doesn't want to carry a huge DSLR. This could be anyone.

I also enjoy the odd manual focusing only I went the cheaper route of -

I also have zebras and focus peaking and manual only fun but for a fraction of the cost. Sure it's not FF but with a few tweeks in LR images come out just fine.

Just sayin.

Seems a bit strange to buy a $1500 digital camera just to use it as a manual focus only camera. Are you planning on buying additional E mount lenses with it?

based on your logic, Leica shouldn't be in business.

I'm thrilled to be going back to enjoyable, more thoughtful, artistic side of photography. When I first started taking photos, I never dreamed of owning an SLR, it just wasn't the kind of camera I wanted.Fast forward 15 years and it seemed outside of the M8 and M9 the only obvious choices for high quality camera gear were DSLR's. So, I jumped in to the Canon party with a 550D. But it never really made me feel at home, or comfortable. it was always too big, bulky, and more like a science than an art. Yes the EVF on the Sony is rather high tech, but I love the features it allows(magnificiation, FP, zebra stripes.) I have really missed manual focusing and I'm enjoying having a reasonable sized camera that still allows me to take photos in a way that is comfortable for me. I also like the kit lens(for what it is) and am planning on buying some FE lenses when they drop in price, or release something faster,While I love my EOS-M, the lack of dials to control manual settings, and no VF make it a little less than an ideal tool for me to use as my main camera.

I'm clamoring for a successor to the 5D3 to be announced, so that the price of the 5D3 will drop. I'd like to pick up a 2nd 5D3 for around $2K, and retire my 5DC.

Check back around 2018. The 5DIII might drop to around $2K by then.

In 2018 the price of the 5DIII will be closer to $1K than 2K. The 5DII was announced 9/2008. By Xmas 2011, it was on sale for $2k. I remember being extremely tempted by it but holding off knowing the 5DIII was coming soon. The 5DIII was announced 3/2012. It is now 12/2013 and the price has dropped from$3500 at launch to $2649 today at Amazon. It seems to me that it will be on sale next year around the $2300 mark if not even lower by black friday or xmas 2014Camera technology is moving fast and prices are falling. With Sony releasing $1700 full frame compact cameras the market will soon be flooded with used full frame cameras for around $1k. Sony, Fuji and many other brands will be releasing more FF cameras even more often in the next few years. The prices of used high quality cameras will drop from the exclusive price points they have been at. I see the 5DII at about $600 bucks in 2018, and the 5DIII around $1250

4D - four also reads as death in Japanese. 8D - 2 x 4 = 8 still a multiple of four. Superstition may keep this name at bay! Also sounds like you're saying 80.

I live in China(same ideas about the meaning of 4 or "si") and this is not as big of a deal as people make it out to be. Nikon already has a D4 as their flagship. My building(and most others) have a 4th floor. My apartment is #4..... etc."Si," depending on the tone it is said in also means "temple, silk, thought/think, tear/rip, personal, then/this, feed, similar and many, many others. Yes, there is some truth to the idea, but I think the Nikon D4 proved that it is definitely not out of the realm of possibility for a camera to have a "4" in the name.

A valid marketing reason to ship the premium APS-C offering with a new name is this. If the new camera is a feature-laden as we hope, it's going to need a higher pricepoint. To name a significantly higher priced release as the 7DII will elicit howls of protest. "Look how much they've raised the price of the 7D!!!"

But if it's skillfully repositioned as an all new model, the grounds for grumbling will be lessened. The 7D classic may even soldier on for another couple of years...who knows? It's still a very good camera which has aged remarkably well.

-pw

I think this is spot on. If Canon wants to make the end all be all of APS-C cameras(which I believe is what they should do) they will probably want to position it well over 2000 dollars. A new, higher level name will facilitate this better than a simple "II" designation.

Wow. The level of paranoia here is incredible. Was there a sale on tinfoil hats somewhere?

after reading about previous firmware updates making 3rd party gear unusable for other manufacturers(and I believe even Canon themselves(wasn't there a 3rd party battery issue a few months back?),) i would not blame anyone for thinking that this tiny, non reversible upgrade to the firmware was solely to fix this rather insignificant problem that I have never heard anyone mention.I would be very very suspicious of this firmware and I would certainly not implement it if I had a 7D.

we really have to wait until the second half of 2014 for the possibility of an M with a viewfinder? The M has been out well over a year now and there is no replacement in the works? Aren't these sort of entry level cameras usually replaced every year or so? Why are they so unprepared and disinterested in making a compelling product? The only positive hope I have is that they dont want to piss off Americans when they rehash the M system in to a full frame option next year so they are just keeping it low profile and focusing more on the Asian market in the meantime. I'd be thrilled if Canon created a full frame mirrorless option to lead the EOS-M lineup.

Neuro, come on.... are you really still standing up for Canon and their 18mp sensor?

Back when the original 12 megapixel 5D was introduced, a very experienced wedding photographer bought it and soon returned it. He told me it had "too many megapixels". He realized he had no need for 12mp and didn't want to deal with the big files. Now we think the little EOS M2 should have more than 18mp. People who buy the little M2 will be making really, really big prints.

BTW, my problem with the 18mp sensor has absolutely nothing to do with the number. I think it is pretty much the perfect amount of Megapixels for my needs... I just bought the a7(not the a7r.)I just think at this point Canon needs to do something to get over this hump with their 18mp sensor... buy them from Sony, figure out some new technology, do something... From the 7D in 2009 to yesterdays EOS-M2 release, there has been very little innovation in the Canon world recently.

EOS-M isn't a compelling product in the competitive US marketplace, but it could be, and it really wouldn't take all that much effort on Canon's part to make it so. The thing that confuses me is, instead of even trying...they drop it from our market? Strange. Very strange, and disappointing.

This is the part that is strange. Why don't they make a competetive product? Ok, the M was late to the party... but now they just quit? The M isn't a new release, couldn't they get an M2 to the US market before the holidays this year? My only guess is a more upgraded M will be released in the US sometime next year... I just cant get why it isn't available yet?