Bring back Shadowstep to sub PvP

Hey guys, I'm sure you've all acclimated to using Cloak and Dagger by now, and as great as it is when combined with subterfuge, I really miss having the on the fly utility of SS. However, it's pretty clear that Cloak is superior in almost every way atm, so provide your ideas on how to bring it back reasonably

However, it's pretty clear that Cloak is superior in almost every way atm

That's a sweeping statement. Whilst cloak and dagger is a pretty decent talent, when you are shadow dancing you mostly have the opponent locked down and movement is kept to a minimum.

Shadowstep, despite a lengthy cooldown, allows for better uptime between dances. It's swings and roundabouts and there's no clear cut winner, though I would say burst of speed wins for me regardless with it's modest energy cost.

I think the other difference, from what I've read, is that Shadow Step can be used on your team mates as well - although generally i'd imagine if you're using it on your team mates its because they're in trouble so using CaS would work just as well to CS the person harassing your team mate?

They're pretty equal. Shadow step is better for damage and survivability, cnd is better for control and staying on target during dance. Only reason cnd seems so much better is because the meta game right now is "pop CDs and blow something up" and cnd ensures you'll get something out of your dance.

They're pretty equal. Shadow step is better for damage and survivability, cnd is better for control and staying on target during dance. Only reason cnd seems so much better is because the meta game right now is "pop CDs and blow something up" and cnd ensures you'll get something out of your dance.

So it seems like many of you seem to disagree, but what do you think of lowering the CD on SS? Fair at this point? I'd also be interested in hearing people's level of PvP play as that knowledge and experience is a much different factor when sharing PvP opinions.

C&D has saved me more often than a friendly Sstep. Also C&D's mobility is leaps and bounds better. More than once in RBG / Arena I could Garotte / Cheap my way across the field.

Shadowstep is still nice but the control C&D brings is way better. Everyone has their preference but I think it's mostly Shadowstep nostalgia talking

This is exactly my point. CaD is far better right now, and burst of speed has always been a joke for high end PvP (those who say otherwise link your character armory with arena rating). If Bliz truly wants there to be an option or to not have cookie cutter builds, a change needs to be made. 24 seconds is simply too unforgiving in todays game.

To be honest, shadowstep can beat CaD if you play it to its max. But yeah, a 15 second cooldown would be suitable considering the power of CaD. Either that, or allow double usage before ever initializing a cooldown.

To be honest, shadowstep can beat CaD if you play it to its max. But yeah, a 15 second cooldown would be suitable considering the power of CaD. Either that, or allow double usage before ever initializing a cooldown.

Shadowstep in its current form (24s) simply doesn't trump C&D. With the amount of restealths, dances and vanishes available it's almost silly to choose Step right now. Even for defensive reasons.

I'm not going into an argument with you. Shadowstep can have a greater value than CaD in certain situations, and that's the end of it.

Definitely not the end of the argument, sorry. Shadowstep can have a greater value than CaD in certain situations, but those situations are limited enough that I can't think of a single one. And as you've provided no examples, I'm going to say they are extremely limited - if they exist at all.

Glancing over the most used talent setups this season, it looks like Alfirin is right - Shadowstep could quite obviously use some love.

Definitely not the end of the argument, sorry. Shadowstep can have a greater value than CaD in certain situations, but those situations are limited enough that I can't think of a single one. And as you've provided no examples, I'm going to say they are extremely limited - if they exist at all.

Glancing over the most used talent setups this season, it looks like Alfirin is right - Shadowstep could quite obviously use some love.

Vanish is on a 2 min CD, ignoring prep, and SD on a 1 min CD. It's not a great deal in between these times. Shadowstep provides the consistency, which is why it isn't bad but I do agree it needs a shorter cooldown.

Vanish is on a 2 min CD, ignoring prep, and SD on a 1 min CD. It's not a great deal in between these times. Shadowstep provides the consistency, which is why it isn't bad but I do agree it needs a shorter cooldown.

I agree. I didn't mean to say that the mechanic itself was broken, only that it needs a shorter cooldown to actually appeal to more than the 10% of the pvp population who is using it instead of CaD.

So it seems like many of you seem to disagree, but what do you think of lowering the CD on SS? Fair at this point? I'd also be interested in hearing people's level of PvP play as that knowledge and experience is a much different factor when sharing PvP opinions.

Even if shadowstep was like a 10s CD I doubt most people would take it over CnD right now. It's just the way the game is right now: either beat the other team when you dance or you lose.

You don't NEED CnD to kill people in a dance though so I think it's balanced as is. Better players can take step, the majority use CnD.

---------- Post added 2013-04-24 at 06:24 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Espe

Definitely not the end of the argument, sorry. Shadowstep can have a greater value than CaD in certain situations, but those situations are limited enough that I can't think of a single one. And as you've provided no examples, I'm going to say they are extremely limited - if they exist at all.

Glancing over the most used talent setups this season, it looks like Alfirin is right - Shadowstep could quite obviously use some love.

The situations that favor shadowstep should be pretty obvious: defensively and uptime on a target. Defensively, CnD isn't that useful because you need to either have dance up or be stealthed to even use it. You can still use dance defensively even without CnD, and obviously if you're stealthed you aren't in immediate danger. For overall uptime, it should be obvious that a gap closer you can use 2.5 times a minute is better than one you can only use once per minute (all rogues can use vanish as a gap closer so I'm not counting it in CnD's favor).