As some of you know, some previous BK vets started their own mod initially dubbed "Warefare mod," currently named "Spearhead." I was always curious, since spearhead has had extensive development with increasing popularity in its fanbase, how much different hypothetically would bk mod 2 be with full modding support? What about the differences if the modding support remains limited?

Hi, i play the spearhead mod for 1 or 2 months now, i found a lot of joy in it, since i can't play the vanilla game (just, machine gun not firing more than 3 round, realy relic ?). I think i will keep it aside from bkmod, but, i think that bk will stay my favorite. Because, that's bk ! I don't know, that's probably some kind of loyalty, or just because, the bk team did, do, and i'm sure of it, will keep doing a great job on the CoH Games.

Now, for the difference between the two, i think it'll be all in shades, what kind of things to be add, what to be cutted, etc.

Well, I played Spearhead Mod because I was invited to play it by its developers (some old BK mod player).Damage system is mostly like BK mod ... more extreme maybe. It is more more more focused on tactic, movements ambushes etc.Anyway in the CoH 2 community I noticed that Spearhead Mod doesn't have a really big Sub-Community or a great success, It is early maybe, I don't know.Like Always something I like and something not BUT I'm pretty sure that When BK MOD 2 will be launched and if it will be a good work (I mean the most possible identical) Then in the CoH 2 Community it will be a nuke explosion

Company Of Heroes is the 'water gun version' of Blitzkrieg Mod" (Heinz Wilhelm Guderian, 1939)

The founder is Achronos. The project leaders are charles vane and Leepriest. I like Leepriest a a lot and played many good BK games with him. Charles has lots of knowlegde about ww2 tanks and stuff like weapons.

But they already did good by having no kind of "super humans". Of what i saw from streams no unit can simply run into bullets without cover. Even cheap units behind cover will quickly kill elites that are used stupidly. Ambushes, unit movment, flanking and abilties like smoke are playing an important role. Also doctrines looking good and specialized but being not completely helpless to deal with various situations. Arty (esspecially different off maps) are well spread and so defenses and defense weapons rely more on flexibility and static camp games would fail (ww2 mobile warfare).

Last edited by Warhawks97 on 19 Aug 2015, 19:39, edited 1 time in total.

Just so everyone knows i know the devs of soearhead, and like you war i am close with lee too. I know what soearhead is and i have a good amount of experience on it. What i am asking is not what it is lmao. I am asking the devs or even you guys what and how you think it will be different from bk2. I loke what crimax said that if it is anywhere near identical to bk1 than it will blow spearhead away.. and i can agree with this for i favor the bk1 style a lot more. The thing is, like men of war, soearhead can be a bit too realistic for a video game. But i think thats wht they aimed for was a men of war style play. I do enjoy mow its just really tedious. I like how bk is a mixture of arcade and realism. It tries to lean on realism but not so much so that it destroys that hint of arcade feel. I agree too, that i also feel coh2 itself is just kinda..... idk "uncomfortable." It feels kinda awkward and alien.

@shadowIt feels awkward and alien coz you've been playing coh1 for the last 9 years or at least I have haha!

But back on topic, I actually prefer the style of infantry combat in spearhead, like you say no cyborgs. Using the true line of sight efficiently for infantry is a must, elites will get wrecked if not in cover! very dynamic battles, defense emplacements are usually overcome by one armored unit, but a lucky HE shell in the window of a bunker comes to mind! One minute you might have the upper hand then something happens and bam they're pushing right back at you! Definitely more ground battles in spearhead and less arty wars! Tank combat is in a good place in both I think! except for a few inconsistencies in bk1.

I'd like to see the tank aspect remain pretty much the same, although I will say the speed of tanks specially mediums feels a lot better in spearhead might just be better path finding in the new engine or added speed, in bk1 they move extremely slow i think.

Now for bk2 I'd like to see less reliance on emplacements and using the actual units and then fortifying them with sandbags and the like. Say for example a mg42 squad with sandbag emplacement built around them or pak40 with sandbag emplacement built around it ect ect. Always made me laugh in bk1 3 guys sitting in a tiny tent with some sandbags and an mg survive a hail of gunfire and explosions! if that's not possible or frowned upon for what ever reasons maybe infantry should be able to kill the crew of emplacements with their normal weapons at maybe medium to close range?what do you guys think on emplacements?

Speaking on the arcade/realism feel of bk1 I feel it is a bit too much when units get vet, they really do become cyborgs and it really bothers me. I shouldn't be able to charge a mg position head on with vet infantry and destroy it, yeah they get pinned at first but they either crawl up and nade it still or you just pop the sprint abilities that get you out of suppression. I feel if infantry aren't in cover they should get destroyed. Any chance of adding a cover bonus to vet infantry instead of them just getting a flat chance to not be hit? least then they would actually become very strong in cover but still weak if caught out of it. in bk2 or 1 I'd like to see it!

Anonter wrote:@shadowIt feels awkward and alien coz you've been playing coh1 for the last 9 years or at least I have haha!

But back on topic, I actually prefer the style of infantry combat in spearhead, like you say no cyborgs. Using the true line of sight efficiently for infantry is a must, elites will get wrecked if not in cover! very dynamic battles, defense emplacements are usually overcome by one armored unit, but a lucky HE shell in the window of a bunker comes to mind! One minute you might have the upper hand then something happens and bam they're pushing right back at you! Definitely more ground battles in spearhead and less arty wars! Tank combat is in a good place in both I think! except for a few inconsistencies in bk1.

I'd like to see the tank aspect remain pretty much the same, although I will say the speed of tanks specially mediums feels a lot better in spearhead might just be better path finding in the new engine or added speed, in bk1 they move extremely slow i think.

Now for bk2 I'd like to see less reliance on emplacements and using the actual units and then fortifying them with sandbags and the like. Say for example a mg42 squad with sandbag emplacement built around them or pak40 with sandbag emplacement built around it ect ect. Always made me laugh in bk1 3 guys sitting in a tiny tent with some sandbags and an mg survive a hail of gunfire and explosions! if that's not possible or frowned upon for what ever reasons maybe infantry should be able to kill the crew of emplacements with their normal weapons at maybe medium to close range?what do you guys think on emplacements?

Speaking on the arcade/realism feel of bk1 I feel it is a bit too much when units get vet, they really do become cyborgs and it really bothers me. I shouldn't be able to charge a mg position head on with vet infantry and destroy it, yeah they get pinned at first but they either crawl up and nade it still or you just pop the sprint abilities that get you out of suppression. I feel if infantry aren't in cover they should get destroyed. Any chance of adding a cover bonus to vet infantry instead of them just getting a flat chance to not be hit? least then they would actually become very strong in cover but still weak if caught out of it. in bk2 or 1 I'd like to see it!

anyway cheers for reading guys.

+1, good post.

As for tanks and vehicles i am not sure they are too slow or infantry simply ridiculous fast. Esspecially on areas with craters and simply spring extremly fast even when having very heavy weapons in their hands. Tanks are often stated with a speed of like 15-20 km/h offroad. I can hardly imagine how infantry with like 10 kilo heavy weapon+ ammo and stuff can run over fields with high grass faster than a tank can. I think the coh 1 game engine doesnt have road and off road speed for infantry.

The cyborgs are often created by their special target tables which like reduce incoming accuracy (while moving for example) and sometimes very high HP pool. In coh 2 this target tables do not exist and weapons have simply normal accuracy values and penalties against certain things (like cover) but not because the enemie is an elite soldier they are harder to hit.

So for Bk2 i hope to have less cyborg arcade infantry fights, tanks capable of shreding inf in front of them when they cant jump fast enough to the next cover. Also i wish less arty parties but less much campy. It doesnt mean to remove arty or defense, just arty effectively available so that 2 hour long bunkering simply wont happen anymore.

Of what i saw here in spearhead there are three things that reduces campy moments. 1. Its the true sight2. smoke very effective3. Arty (often off maps) in all docs. Mostly a short barrage on a certain point or so. That prevents from right the beginning a too high spam of paks and HMG´s which need to be well placed and relocated more often but without being the ultimate tank busting abilties.

Thats what i would like in Bk2 as well. And also very cool well thought doctrine set ups.

Also very clearly defined strenghts and weaknes of factions. For example playing americans in BK 1 feels a lot more like "ww2 russian style" and understimated weapons underperforming sometimes a lot and overnerfed just to fit in that "ultimate axis quality vs ultimate allied quantity crap" schema.

So whereas axis having as general strenght good armor, good ranged efficency, good weapon upgrades and many different but doctinal bounded types of vehicles and armor the US would make up for it by better basic equipment, extremly high flexibility with less different vehicle and tank types but therefore less doctrinal bounded and high servicable armored forces and armor support in all docs with some special armor in special armor doc but nothing like super pershing and pershing very rare and also good flexibility of arty. So US would be able to move quickly units from one part of the map to another, reorganisation and very well combined arms (tanks, inf, arty, air). Axis therefore able to lead massive breakthroughs right through the lines of their enemies while not able to match up the with enemie flexibility (esspecially on long term when they start spending more res into their tanks).

But these are things i am also a little bit missing in spearhead of what ive seen at least from mates streams.... that not only docs, but also factions do differ clearly from each other.

Anonter wrote:@shadowIt feels awkward and alien coz you've been playing coh1 for the last 9 years or at least I have haha!

But back on topic, I actually prefer the style of infantry combat in spearhead, like you say no cyborgs. Using the true line of sight efficiently for infantry is a must, elites will get wrecked if not in cover! very dynamic battles, defense emplacements are usually overcome by one armored unit, but a lucky HE shell in the window of a bunker comes to mind! One minute you might have the upper hand then something happens and bam they're pushing right back at you! Definitely more ground battles in spearhead and less arty wars! Tank combat is in a good place in both I think! except for a few inconsistencies in bk1.

I'd like to see the tank aspect remain pretty much the same, although I will say the speed of tanks specially mediums feels a lot better in spearhead might just be better path finding in the new engine or added speed, in bk1 they move extremely slow i think.

Now for bk2 I'd like to see less reliance on emplacements and using the actual units and then fortifying them with sandbags and the like. Say for example a mg42 squad with sandbag emplacement built around them or pak40 with sandbag emplacement built around it ect ect. Always made me laugh in bk1 3 guys sitting in a tiny tent with some sandbags and an mg survive a hail of gunfire and explosions! if that's not possible or frowned upon for what ever reasons maybe infantry should be able to kill the crew of emplacements with their normal weapons at maybe medium to close range?what do you guys think on emplacements?

Speaking on the arcade/realism feel of bk1 I feel it is a bit too much when units get vet, they really do become cyborgs and it really bothers me. I shouldn't be able to charge a mg position head on with vet infantry and destroy it, yeah they get pinned at first but they either crawl up and nade it still or you just pop the sprint abilities that get you out of suppression. I feel if infantry aren't in cover they should get destroyed. Any chance of adding a cover bonus to vet infantry instead of them just getting a flat chance to not be hit? least then they would actually become very strong in cover but still weak if caught out of it. in bk2 or 1 I'd like to see it!

anyway cheers for reading guys.

+1, good post.

As for tanks and vehicles i am not sure they are too slow or infantry simply ridiculous fast. Esspecially on areas with craters and simply spring extremly fast even when having very heavy weapons in their hands. Tanks are often stated with a speed of like 15-20 km/h offroad. I can hardly imagine how infantry with like 10 kilo heavy weapon+ ammo and stuff can run over fields with high grass faster than a tank can. I think the coh 1 game engine doesnt have road and off road speed for infantry.

The cyborgs are often created by their special target tables which like reduce incoming accuracy (while moving for example) and sometimes very high HP pool. In coh 2 this target tables do not exist and weapons have simply normal accuracy values and penalties against certain things (like cover) but not because the enemie is an elite soldier they are harder to hit.

So for Bk2 i hope to have less cyborg arcade infantry fights, tanks capable of shreding inf in front of them when they cant jump fast enough to the next cover. Also i wish less arty parties but less much campy. It doesnt mean to remove arty or defense, just arty effectively available so that 2 hour long bunkering simply wont happen anymore.

Of what i saw here in spearhead there are three things that reduces campy moments. 1. Its the true sight2. smoke very effective3. Arty (often off maps) in all docs. Mostly a short barrage on a certain point or so. That prevents from right the beginning a too high spam of paks and HMG´s which need to be well placed and relocated more often but without being the ultimate tank busting abilties.

Thats what i would like in Bk2 as well. And also very cool well thought doctrine set ups.

Also very clearly defined strenghts and weaknes of factions. For example playing americans in BK 1 feels a lot more like "ww2 russian style" and understimated weapons underperforming sometimes a lot and overnerfed just to fit in that "ultimate axis quality vs ultimate allied quantity crap" schema.

So whereas axis having as general strenght good armor, good ranged efficency, good weapon upgrades and many different but doctinal bounded types of vehicles and armor the US would make up for it by better basic equipment, extremly high flexibility with less different vehicle and tank types but therefore less doctrinal bounded and high servicable armored forces and armor support in all docs with some special armor in special armor doc but nothing like super pershing and pershing very rare and also good flexibility of arty. So US would be able to move quickly units from one part of the map to another, reorganisation and very well combined arms (tanks, inf, arty, air). Axis therefore able to lead massive breakthroughs right through the lines of their enemies while not able to match up the with enemie flexibility (esspecially on long term when they start spending more res into their tanks).

But these are things i am also a little bit missing in spearhead of what ive seen at least from mates streams.... that not only docs, but also factions do differ clearly from each other.

I mistly support army's post, but not all the way. And about that foreign feel, i can tell you that it is a good point but it is not true. Its more of the way coh2 and spearhead is set up. I would have to write an essay on the details, which i dont really feel like doing lol.

Really enjoying this mod, has made COH2 actually playable when combined with BKMOD2 Win Condition for the extra zoom out and pop cap.

It is very much styled like original Blitzkrieg Mod but with all the added benefits that come with COH2. Also it is constantly being improved and the Developer is actually open to feedback and suggestions!

As far as my thoughts go I am essentially on board with everyone here. I will always be a fan of BK Mod. Why? Because the realism is as close as I have seen any World War II game come to reality. As soon as Blitzkrieg becomes official on steam you bet your bum I will be playing that as much or more than CoH2. Back to topic. The only things I would carry over from Spearhead to BKv2 would be the commander "trees", individual unit upgrades, and building upgrades that each has. Combat is close, but BK will always have the extra realism. For details let me elaborate. By commander trees I enjoy how you pick a faction, and then each faction has commanders that allow certain units, and upgrades for said units and some of the buildings. I enjoy this system as it allows me to tailor my units to my style more. Same essentially goes for unit upgrades, and buildings upgrades. I enjoy how my Gerbirgsjägers have more access to advanced upgrades such as a JU-87 strafe, rifle grenade, FG-42, and G43 marksman. It adds individual flare to every unit. Asides from those three things, I think BK2 would best Spearhead in every category. I am tired of seeing an IS2 in Spearhead roll up and go through the front of my Tiger II or Jagdtiger. I have the manuals of those tanks, and the 122mm could not penetrate the front of a Tiger II at 0meters. Please relic, do something right and let the boys have the right tools to make CoH2 great! End long post, sorry chaos

I just delved into Spearhead and it's clearly heavily inspired by BK (I recognised the max 2 unit cap on anti-tank squads for example). Dev team seems good as well, as I somehow started with a doctrine that has the only major bug in it; the British artillery doctrine with pyro upgrade that does not upgrade and then led to crash on loading saved game. But I posted in their bug thread and there was a quick reply with "bug noted". Spearhead is definitely recommended as the team have followed through the same spirit as BK. There's some unusual detail in the descriptions of weapons (for example I never knew the Sten could use the same ammunition as the MP40) and the language style is spot on. The doctrine upgrades are interesting and I always felt like I was being given interesting "presents" to play with just like in BK .