Women asking men to dance.

I've never been dancing in LA so I cannot relate...I've only heard from others what some of clubs are like there. No offense meant to anyone from LA!

Regarding SF, I think part of the attitude is due to the shortage of women. There are so many extra men that we are fighting to get a dance...so the ladies really have it good. If they let this go to their heads...well then it is what it is.

Reminds me of when I tried online dating several years ago (and never will again!). I recall reading that the ratio of men to women on most sites was 8 to 1 at that time (2000). So as a result of the gender imbalance and the natural proclinity of men to make the first move, the women were constantly bombarded by requests for dates. To get any of the women to even acknowledge your presence took either an extreme amount of luck or having been blessed with good looks and a high social standing (I had neither, (un)fortunately). :? :roll:

On one hand I totally understand the women needing to exercise caution and use discernment to weed out the creeps and weirdos...but there was simply NO excuse for some of the attitudes that I encountered!

But with the odds greatly in their favor...they could sit back and be extremely picky...then again who ever said life was fair? :wink:

I'm from the planet Venus or haven't you heard. Unfortunately, Rails & Clave, it's mostly the hottest dancers or the hottest guys who gets asked to dance by women they don't know. It helps when the guy has a nice, friendly and approachable attitude, too. So smile, be friendly and see what happens. This is what women had to do in the past. If you smiled and had a nice, friendly approachable attitude then the guy wouldn't be as hesitant in asking. Now, we get to switch roles and feel how the other gender felt for centuries. :wink:

Scorpion guy, you seem really nice and sweet from your posts. It's not a surprise that you get women you don't know to ask you to dance. You must exude a certain positive attitude in person that makes it easier for women to ask you. We might of even danced together or seen eachother before if you are a regular in the S.F. Salsa club scene.

Thank you *blush*...I actually get asked to dance fairly often in my own area...I remember one night a girl who came to our club for the first time walked all the way across the room to ask me to dance. It was funny since I was in a really weird mood and not dancing, so she comes over, sits down and says "Why are you sitting down and not dancing? Get up and dance with me!" Made my night, let me tell you!

I doubt that we've danced but we may have been at the same venues...I don't go to SF all that often, and the first few times I just sat down and hid most of the night (I'm still a beginner). I think it was my third visit to the Roccapulco before I finally asked a lady to dance...and she was a beauty as I recall. :wink:

Do you ever go to the Allegro Ballroom? I went there for the first time a few weeks ago and had a blast. I asked quite a few women to dance and all of them said yes...not one rejection the entire night! That doesn't happen very often, especially being a new face at a large venue!

Yes, Allegro is my Sunday night spot. I love it there. It's my favorite place to go in the S.F. Bay Area. There's something about that place that just appeals to a lot of dancers. And, yes, I find people there pretty friendly. It's a lot about just the dancing there and it's not as much of a meat market as some of the clubs can be sometimes.

Wow, no rejections all night, that's awesome. (I'm getting this hot image of you now. :wink: Just kidding. I like to flirt. It's all innocent.) I don't like hearing from my guys friends when women have attitudes especially the ones who think they are just too good, if you know what I mean. But, from the sound of it, that doesn't happen to you much.

It is a nice venue...my Salsa friends had been telling me about it for months...saying it would be different than the rest of the clubs. And they were right...very different crowd and I liked the energy, non-competitve and very friendly.

I think its likely due to the lack of alcohol, every one there is there to dance...and that's the way it should be!

Well...I think I only danced about 6 times...since the first part of the evening I just watched...adjusting to the size of the crowd since I normally go to really small venues. But once I got over being intimidated I just went for it...and I had a lot of fun.

Hmm...I wonder if you were the one lady that I kept admiring...and every time I'd get the nerve to ask her, another guy would beat me to it! Finally I just nearly ran her down and she accepted and then led me to the center of the dance floor...it was kind of sweet actually (or maybe she just wanted to hide in the crowd where no would see us, ha!).

Ah, I'm just an average guy...and you can ask the other DF members, I'm not much of a flirt...not at all. :lol: :raisebro:

If I make it down there again save me a dance...but I will be honest in stating I'm still very much a beginner. And I do apologize when I step on toes. :wink:

Interesting that LA has such a bad rep because I've never had issues out there. Now the Bay area on the other hand, the very first time I visted and danced there I was getting turned down left and right (Agenda)! Now when I went more recently to DLL and Rocca I didn't have any issues.

Hmm, interesting observation. I danced salsa in San Francisco only once during a short visit. It was a Saturday night at Cafe Cocomo, and my impression matches rails' very closely: few good follows, they come in cliques, most of them refused me, and of the few that didn't most didn't act very friendly. Big city attitude? Could be, but it was much worse than LA which has every right to be the capital of attitude. Perhaps I should have chosen a different venue?

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Well Saturday night is not a dancer's night at any of the regular venues. In my experience what you get is a lot of women who have never done salsa (or probably any other partner dance). And, yeah, a lot of them come with their "I've got my defenses up because I think I'm in a meat market" attitude. I was at Cocomo on a Saturday a couple of months ago. I never got turned down, but I didn't ask any grumpy-looking girls. I also didn't have any good dances except with the women I came with. None of the strangers I danced with had much of any concept of connection. I'm not good or anything, but I have a little concept of it.

youngsta said:

Now the Bay area on the other hand, the very first time I visted and danced there I was getting turned down left and right (Agenda)!

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Agenda? Ha, now that's ironic.

ScorpionGuy said:

Now now rails, I've had a few women ask me to dance at Salsa venues in SF...and all 2 or 3 of them were complete strangers! As I recall one was very drunk and didn't really know how to dance, but hey, she STILL ASKED!

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Okay, I admit it. I have been asked by complete strangers before, but we're talking once every 10 nights of dancing or something like that. I don't ask women I know very much, but that's probably because I know they'll ask me eventually, especially if they're looking to cleanse the palate after a dance with a sleaze or a bull-in-a-china-shop type dancer.

SalsaAmore said:

Yes, Allegro is my Sunday night spot. I love it there. It's my favorite place to go in the S.F. Bay Area. There's something about that place that just appeals to a lot of dancers.

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Allegro on Sunday is definitely a dancer's night. Unfortunately, the last couple of times I went there was a pretty bad lead:follow ratio and I don't like the music there. I'm a traditionalist. All that pop music doesn't inspire me.

SalsaAmore said:

Unfortunately, Rails & Clave, it's mostly the hottest dancers or the hottest guys who gets asked to dance by women they don't know.

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Uh, yeah SalsaAmore, that's the problem. Clave, SG & I aren't hot enough. I just wish I were as hawt as the guy in my avatar.

As for the whole turn-down thing. I rarely get turned down, but I think I filter more than most guys. I don't ask grumpy-looking women. I also don't ask those who are sitting way back from the dance floor. In the past I would be coming back from the bar or bathroom or whatever and would pass an interesting-looking woman whom I'd ask to dance. I noticed my turn-down rate was pretty high with these people so I stopped doing it. There were plenty of interesting-looking follows closer to the dance floor and they never said no.

Allegro on Sunday is definitely a dancer's night. Unfortunately, the last couple of times I went there was a pretty bad lead:follow ratio and I don't like the music there. I'm a traditionalist. All that pop music doesn't inspire me.

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I noticed the lead to follow ratio wasn't in our favor at Allegros...I got there early to watch the lesson and noticed how many guys had to wait for an available partner and I decided I didn't want to be another one! Its funny who you talk to, all the men notice the lack of women, but when I ask my female friends who go there they always say "there's a shortage of women? I guess I never notice because I'm always dancing!" :roll:

I thought the music was ok...only one cha cha the entire night though, and I think 2 or 3 Bachatas which was nice. The Merengue was just right, not too much, not too little. I didn't hear any of my favorite tunes, and I usually turn my brain off when Reggaeton comes on...but that's just me. :x

You've learned as I have about asking the right women! All of the ones I asked were standing near the dance floor, with a "I really wanna dance!" look on their faces. All I had to was approach them with a smile and they were more than happy to dance with me. I recall at one point there were two ladies standing near me...and I had a brain freeze...both were cute and looked like they would be fun to dance with...which to ask? I asked one and then the other disappeared...oh well...next time! :wink:

Unfortunately, Rails & Clave, it's mostly the hottest dancers or the hottest guys who gets asked to dance by women they don't know.

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Oh, now I get it. I wasn't hot enough for San Fran! It's only these butt-ugly LA girls that have to do the asking out of desperation--how would they ever get married with all that tanning and cosmetic surgery!? :wink:

Seriously, though, think about these observations of attitudes in your scene. I often think about it in my scene here in SoCal. I get asked all the time here, but that's 'cause I know half the people who show up at a club, I'm pretty good, I never refuse a dance, am nice to everyone, no ex-es in the scene, and so forth. But if I had an out-of-scene salsero friend visit, there are very few places where I would take them knowing they'd be likely to have a good time in spite of not knowing anyone. These days I try to dance every place I visit on business or as a tourist, and often wish there were guides indicating where not to go unless you're a local.

SalsaAmore said:

It helps when the guy has a nice, friendly and approachable attitude, too. So smile, be friendly and see what happens. This is what women had to do in the past. If you smiled and had a nice, friendly approachable attitude then the guy wouldn't be as hesitant in asking. Now, we get to switch roles and feel how the other gender felt for centuries. :wink:

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Gosh, you really do live in a beautiful fantasy world, I envy you. Quite a few girls I was attracted to over the years would in turn be attracted to complete non-nice, non-smiling, manipulative jerks. That niceness is a turn-on is news to me, frankly. If rules of attraction were that simple pushover geeks would be chick magnets. Sadly...

rails said:

As for the whole turn-down thing. I rarely get turned down, but I think I filter more than most guys. I don't ask grumpy-looking women. I also don't ask those who are sitting way back from the dance floor. In the past I would be coming back from the bar or bathroom or whatever and would pass an interesting-looking woman who I'd ask to dance. I noticed my turn-down rate was pretty high with these people so I stopped doing it. There were plenty of interesting-looking follows closer to the dance floor and they never said no.

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Oh, when I'm visiting a different scene I filter a whole lot more than that: I only ask ladies I've seen dance with some degree of competence. I don't avoid beginners--I never refuse when asked--but seeking them out just to keep my feet busy has become too painful. Yep, it's the Curse of the Salsero :cry: http://www.salsamafia.com/Salsa_Curse.html

Clave, I have to question the kind of girls you are attracted to, the ones that are into manipulative jerks. In my so called "fantasy" world (as you say), people I know are beautiful inside and out and appreciate other people who treat them well. Wow, what a concept, huh, choosing people who treat you well. But, all sarcasm aside, I know that can be challenging for some people.

Also I said that -- the hottest guys OR the hottest dancers get asked and it helps to have the right attitude to be asked by women you don't know. Right attitude is to smile, be friendly, look approachable and not grumpy (like Rails said about some women). It will help the women to feel more at ease to ask if you have all the above mentioned qualities.

Hi from Romania! It is wonderfull to find so many people willing to share their experiences.
Let me tell you about mine. I don't have any problems asking guys to dance with me. What can happen? A guy can give you 2 answers: yes or no. It's normal. And taking into account my smile (smth. like my avatar), I usually get a yes with a smile on top.
I only had problems asking 2 guys:
-Jorge, a friend from Puerto Rico. He moves... beyond words. Nothing out of this world (no dips, no jumps, etc.) but... it is just a continuous flow and smth. about what I can read on his face. I asked him ... and just enjoyed!
-Abby, the teacher in our December workshop. I did't ask him... and I should have. Well, next time.
It can't hurt. It's only my wish to dance.

Judging from the statements that SK said that this woman made, I feel like this woman is very arrogant. She seems to act as if she is above asking someone to dance becaue her level of dance skill is so high. However, I believe most arrogant people are, albeit deep, deep down, are actually insecure, and her second statement proves me right. If she's as skilled as she says she is, there would be no reason for her to feel any pressure to be able to follow whatever moves her partner might throw at her. Also, I feel this woman is only in it for the attention and not for the love of the dance. If she really wanted to dance, as many have said earlier, she would not interpret asking someone to dance as "begging", and it would not matter to her who did the asking. Furthermore, the fact that she sees dacing w/ someone as a risk lets me further know that she is insecure under that snobbish facade.

On a lighter note, as a guy I've had to overcome shyness/insecurity (yes, I'm insecure too....that's why I can spot another insecure person a mile away) in asking women to dance, so It really encourages me when I get asked to dance by a woman. It doesn't matter if she's a beginner or expert or anywhere in between, it just brightens up my day. So ladies, think about that the next time you're contemplating on wether or not to ask a guy to dance.

Judging from the statements that SK said that this woman made, I feel like this woman is very arrogant. She seems to act as if she is above asking someone to dance becaue her level of dance skill is so high. However, I believe most arrogant people are, albeit deep, deep down, are actually insecure, and her second statement proves me right. If she's as skilled as she says she is, there would be no reason for her to feel any pressure to be able to follow whatever moves her partner might throw at her. Also, I feel this woman is only in it for the attention and not for the love of the dance. If she really wanted to dance, as many have said earlier, she would not interpret asking someone to dance as "begging", and it would not matter to her who did the asking. Furthermore, the fact that she sees dacing w/ someone as a risk lets me further know that she is insecure under that snobbish facade.

On a lighter note, as a guy I've had to overcome shyness/insecurity (yes, I'm insecure too....that's why I can spot another insecure person a mile away) in asking omen to dance, so It really encourages me when I get asked to dance by a woman. It doesn't matter if she's a beginner or expert or anywhere in between, it just brightens up my day. So ladies, think about that the next time you're contemplating on wether or not to ask a guy to dance.

Luv, Peace, and SALSA

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RugKutta, you are a man after this Owl's heart!! It was learning to dance that forced me to confront a lot of my own insecurities anda great way to conquer them. I've been pretty fortunate to have largely good to excellent experiences, and of course, the inevitable egocentric, arrogant woman that thinks they're soooo above it all you described here.

Dancing built my confidence in such a way I don't give a hoot what anyone thinks of me not being "competition level" and what not!