Posted
by
ScuttleMonkey
on Monday February 22, 2010 @04:46PM
from the but-who-will-the-government-villainize-then dept.

Wired has mention of a new site that hopes to encourage a grassroots "citizen diplomacy" movement by combining English/Arabic translation software with a Facebook-style meeting place. "Meedan, which officially launches Monday, lets users post stories and comments in English and have them automatically translated into Arabic, or the opposite. People who don’t share a common language can have an online discussion in near real time. The name, appropriately, means 'gathering place' or 'town hall'; in Arabic.
Think of it as a social network filled with people you don't know, but want to understand."

Randall can tell people off for overquoting Python, but you don't get to quote Randall telling people off for overquoting Python without looking like the exact kind of person Randall is making fun of.

Hm, no, not buying it. Mindlessly prattling off Python quotes at any moderately viable opportunity does not equate to linking to a comic that explains why that is a bad thing. Randall made a good point and I think it's worth bearing in mind.

Meanwhile, the poor Babel fish, by effectively removing all barriers to communication between different races and cultures, has caused more and bloodier wars than anything else in the history of creation.

Meanwhile, the poor Babel fish, by effectively removing all barriers to communication between different races and cultures, has caused more and bloodier wars than anything else in the history of creation.

I thought the Arabic kafir meant nonbeliever (atheist), whereas the English term infidel (in the context that it is being referred to) would mean one who is not a Muslim. Wouldn't there be separate terms for those two different concepts?

Option two: Fuck it. Consult the mapping service of your choice to find a nice bar(with rooftop option if the weather suits), located in a major population center and near as many strategic targets as possible. Drink until you see t

Actually, there IS the possibility that due to a translation error, some people could be offended by the resulting statements. We should probably have an open, mature dialogue in advance with the Arab world about how cultural differences are not necessarily evil, just different, and they could discuss their values so we could take those into account when communicating, and we could pledge to respect those. That way, when such translation errors come up, both sides will realize that no offense was meant,

I'm sure you have some way of guaranteeing that the exchange via Internet will be "productive", and not a lot of name-calling by both sides?

Man, I really thought the sarcasm was so thick in my post that no one would mistake it for seriousness.

No, I don't, I'm pretty sure this will start and end with trolling and misguided proselytizing on both sides, having accomplished nothing other than possibly some death threats. You know, just as all other interactions on the internet, and all interactions between the arab world and the west tend to be.

Before taking it international, I recommend you cut your teeth on a more modest goal. You might start by introducing tolerance, respect and understanding among more geographically united people that already speak a common language, say, on the message boards of Yahoo or youTube.

Agreed - it's idealism turned unrealism if you think you can take diametrically opposing views and plop them in front of a translation system to breed collaboration, open dialog, compassion, and understanding. I opened a political debate forum years ago with a similar hope: that opposing sides would find common ground through irrefutable factual analysis. While there are a handful of open-minded individuals out there who enjoy this concept, the majority are highly slanted, bull-headed, and offensive and want only to start a fight. I've maintained since then that the people most in need of revolutionary thinking are the ones who are completely unreachable thus making it a wasted effort. Good luck, but don't hold your breath.

Agreed - it's idealism turned unrealism if you think you can take diametrically opposing views and plop them in front of a translation system to breed collaboration, open dialog, compassion, and understanding.

Huh? Why do you assume that arabic speakers and english speakers have "diametrically opposing views?"

I think you'd be surprised at just how much people have in common. Sure there are issues on which groups have a tendency to disagree (IMHO mostly promulgated by their respective propaganda outlets so each has only a piece of the whole story) but for the most part, people are people regardless of what country they live in and thus have many more common experiences than differences.

Muslims believe they have a duty to kill somebody who leaves the faith. See the "Aposty in Islam" wikipedia article if you are clueless about this. There are a dozen countries where the government actually imposes the death penalty for leaving Islam.

Seriously, WTF? How can any Christian or Atheist respect such an evil load of shit?

Then there is the matter of democracy being considered immoral because it suggests that man can mak

Now we can have new opportunities to start flame wars with previously inaccessible opponents...

Maybe if they're busy with flamewars, they won't be so anxious to start the real, shooting kind.

Also, now that you've been registered here at Slashdot for a whole month, has your user name and sig brought a lot of new members to your "third position" political party, or have most slashdotters already realized that "third position" are really just nazis without the cool uniforms?

Also, now that you've been registered here at Slashdot for a whole month, has your user name and sig brought a lot of new members to your "third position" political party, or have most slashdotters already realized that "third position" are really just nazis without the cool uniforms?

Before anybody gets too trigger happy with the flamebait moderation on the poster I am replying to, you want might want to actually read some of the positions of the American3p.org:

If current demographic trends persist, European-Americans will become a minority in America in only a few decades time. The American Third Position will not allow this to happen.

Parents have a right to choose where and with whom their children are schooled, and neighborhoods have a right to make the decisions that will impact them.

Recognizing our people's right to safety, and respecting the sanctity of the rule of law, we will immediately deport all criminal and illegal aliens. We believe, too, that American citizenship should be exclusive and meaningful. As such, the American Third Position will end the practice of automatic birthright-citizenship for children of illegal aliens. To restore, with civility, the identity and culture of our homeland, we will provide incentives for recent, legal immigrants to return to their respective lands.

On the surface, the ideals and goals of the American3p.org seem quite attractive and reasonable. Read a little bit more and you can see that is just pretty wrapping around a core of Racial Purity and Supremacy.

It was the Nazi comment that made me want to click the link and read it, and it is a well deserved comment.

Keep that in mind when you moderate. I think the Nazi comment should be +5 informative in this case.

[...] now that you've been registered here at Slashdot for a whole month, has your user name and sig brought a lot of new members to your "third position" political party, or have most slashdotters already realized that "third position" are really just nazis without the cool uniforms?

I checked it out, your Holiness. Seems that you're right--just the typical racist/nativist bullshit that the far right has been spouting for years. It's nothing but thinly veiled fascism, not a "real" choice at all.

I wanted to see just how inadvisable something like this was. So I sent a whole passel of George Bush quotes through Google's English to Arabic translator, then took the translation and fed it back through the Arabic to English translator, looking for cases where the sense of the words might be disastrously mangled. Immediately, this example popped out:

The truth in this matter is, if you listen carefully, Saddam would still be in power if he was president of the United States and the world would be better off.

Among Arabic speakers who have access to the internet in the first place, the proportion who know at least basic English is quite high. There are plenty of barriers to understanding and agreement, but I'm not sure I would rate a literal inability to communicate as the main one.

Sure. But how many native English speakers speak Arabic? You are making the assumption that the translation site is for the benefit of the Arabs but have you considered that it is actually more for you Westerners. We non-Westerners (I'm a Malaysian Muslim) have had a lot of exposure to your Western culture, values and language. In Malaysia, English is a compulsory subject at school but we certainly did not learn it for your benefit. After more than 30 years of life, I have not found much to be gained from your Western values, culture and your vapid mindless "entertainment" that my people are so fond of aping. Maybe it is you Westerners who should take the effort to learn about other cultures to avoid being so easily mind controlled by your politician's xenophobic propaganda. P.s. to those of you who are making anti-Iran jokes: the Iranians speak Farsi, not Arabic, you dolt!

Ah, but you put forth a good counterexample as to why familiarity will not necessarily breed understanding. Despite many years of contact with foreign cultures, you still have a xenophobic, nationalist view of them, in which you see the foreign values as degenerate and unworthy, in contrast to your own culture's quality values.

After more than 30 years of life, I have not found much to be gained from your Western values, culture and your vapid mindless "entertainment" that my people are so fond of aping. Maybe it is you Westerners who should take the effort to learn about other cultures to avoid being so easily mind controlled by your politician's xenophobic propaganda.

Sure, let's give it a try.

30 seconds looking up information on the culture of Malaysia have found me this [wikipedia.org].

So much for "xenophobic propaganda", eh?

I guess I'll stick to my Western values of personal freedom, and respect for the freedom of other individuals to decide for themselves (but not to force their POV on others), thank you very much.

I imagine that in the confusion 4chan will wind up trolling itself and the entire Internet will collapse into a massive meme black hole such that after society rebuilds, a new era will dawn in which all art depicts humans fleeing from demonic Ethernet cables.

I used to play FFXI and found their system of guided translation to work reasonably well. Several times I was in Japanese parties, or had a Japanese in my party and we were capable of communicating about 80% of what we wanted to. It generally produced less garbled messages than I have seen from sites like babel fish, though that may have been affected by the limited topics of discussion in an MMO.

We never utter the phrase, "There's no word for it in English." in English. When we find a culture that has a concept for which no word currently exists in Engilsh, we say, "well, what's your word for it." Then we hit their language with a sack of potatoes and run off with the word. Sometimes the assault is more violent than than that, sometimes the exchange is far too friendly to be described in polite company, but by hook or by crook, there is no concept which cannot be expressed in English. At least

You do realize that AlQaedah leaders have university degrees and many have studied medicine and or trained in western countries. The anti US drive is so strong and gaining more momentum every year. Fundamentalism was being funded by oil producing countries fr like 50 yrs now and it became self sustaining. I assure you that fundamantalism and anti US movements related to Sunni Islam are still gaining momentum. Significant amounts of the Zakkat money (similar to donations but required by

Arab leader in Arabic: "Kill all non-believers, destroy the Great Satan (USA) and the Little Satan (Israel)"

So, outside of the fringe, religious nutjobs, when have Arab leaders actually called out to destroy non-believers, the US, and Israel? Because I'm sure if I dig around hard enough, I can find religious nutjobs here in the West that have called on the destruction of all of those awful foreigners. Should I consider them to be mainstream and popular as well? What's your definition of an Arab leader anyway?

Actually, looking at your comment and reading through the various misconceptions posted here on/., this w

You've been modded insightful, but that just means the mods are as ignorant as you. Honor killings? Sharia Law? Feudal social systems? I mean, I think those ways of life SHOULD be eradicated, but I'm not pretending to be tolerant of barbaric cultural practices. As for Islam itself, it's really only Wahabi Islam that I have a problem with (well, and some of the kookier Shia sects), but I have the same opinion of certain Evangelical Christian sects (and Scientology, whatever Shinto sect committed the sar

If you look past any prejudice, it's actually damned insightful. Remember the media blockage that was overcome by fucking TWITTER of all things? Being able to find the discrepancy between what you're told by your government and what your government is telling other countries is major.

Of course, the trick will be keeping the site from being blacklisted so hard that its servers implode.

...when their men spoke directly to our women. In a blinding display, the new "51% Voting Block" party was formed, the Constitution amended to allow the foreign-born to become president, President Obama impeached and thrown from office, and New Zealand actress Lucy Lawless voted in as president.

Just go an play some online games. Preferably RPGs. Then you automatically come into contact with people from all over the world.Most of them speak English anyway. But often secondary languages like Spanish help too.And after a while, you will have them in your instant messenger, and talk about life and things.But I promise you, that it will be more interesting than talking to somebody on Slashdot. ^^

Oh, and by the way:I wonder if you can already find someone with the name Achmet on that site, having his status set to (deceased);)

Unless there's a solid moderation system (like/., but then you could have moderators battling it out, which probably happens here, but I don't see it) you could end up with stuff like this.

Recently at UC Irvine the Israeli Ambassador to the US, Michael Oren, had been invited to campus to speak [youtube.com]about Israeli-U.S. relations, but his lecture before about 500 people at the Student Center was interrupted 10 times by students denouncing Israel's treatment of Palestinians. Earlier that day, UCI's Muslim Student Union had issued a statement condemning the decision to invite a "public figure who represents a state that continues to break international and humanitarian law...."

After the 10th interruption, the event deteriorated further as a large group of students walked out of the conference room to jeers - and, the protesters allege, threats - by Oren's supporters. Eight UCI students and three UC Riverside students were briefly detained in another room before being released, after Oren had finished his speech. A planned 30-minute question-and-answer session with Oren was scrapped.

Not to sound to insulting but asking the average man or woman (including me) to understand the cultural complexities of diplomacy is as about as successful as teaching a goldfish the complexity of quantum string theory.

Why am I supposed to respect an all-encompasing way of life (not a mere "religeon") that insists on killing people who quit?

There are a dozen countries in which this is the law. If you are thought to have stopped being Muslim, the government will execute you.

Elsewhere, it happens without official government sanction. It is considered every Muslim's duty to kill somebody who leaves. If a Muslim becomes Christian or Atheist, they will be killed. The MUST be killed.