I still think that it really comes down to
Aragorn as an individual--he could choose to revive the tradition (which had only happened like 3 times during Numenor's existence), or he could appoint someone who he believed would be a better ruler than his daughter.

I must say that i agree with ETM. The point is, that is Eldarion had no children, then the rule of Gondor would have to pass to someone. Although the tradition was 3000 years old, it does not mean that a queen is an unlikley ruler. Just look at the real world and women's rights for example. I believe that if Eldarion had not been born, then he would have chosen one of his daughters to become heir.

Joined: 15 September 2006Posts: 626Location: With Frodo and Sam in the Shire

No problem ETM

Yes Aerandir i appreciate your oppinion and i think you are very right in what you are saying but i don't understand why Aragorn would be restricted to following on the tradition. I understand that it would be expected that he would, but all we are saying, is that there is no reason why Aragorn would not choose to appoint his daughter as queen

_________________<center><font size="0">'Before you came along we bagginses were <i>very</i> well thought of...never had any adventures or did anything unexpected!''</font></br><a href="http://www.frodoforever.com/"><img src="http://www.hufflepuffpride.com/frodo/claim2.gif" border="0" width="200" height="120"></a>

There's no real reason why he wouldn't (except that there might be a better option, someone who could rule better), but there's no real reason why in the world he would, so I tend to think that he wouldn't.

Joined: 15 September 2006Posts: 626Location: With Frodo and Sam in the Shire

I do understand what you mean, I mean i tend to picture the King of Gondor as oppose to a queen but there's always a slight chance i guess.

_________________<center><font size="0">'Before you came along we bagginses were <i>very</i> well thought of...never had any adventures or did anything unexpected!''</font></br><a href="http://www.frodoforever.com/"><img src="http://www.hufflepuffpride.com/frodo/claim2.gif" border="0" width="200" height="120"></a>

Aerandir, there are no proofs of either side that Aragorn adopted such traditions or not. Me and Frodos-Guide are just supposing our own opinion. So one cannot determine the state of our opinion (whether alot or slightly) on the basis of nothing.

After the destruction of Númenor, the surviving Númenóreans (led by descendants of Silmariën) founded the kingdoms of Arnor and Gondor in Middle-earth. At that point, cognatic primogeniture seems to have been abandoned; none of the rulers of Arnor or Gondor were women, and in the case of Anárion's children the youngest child Meneldil received the throne, as his older siblings were women. Queen Berúthiel of Gondor, although certainly formidable, was a Queen-consort, and therefore did not rule, at least officially (and in the event her husband proved his executive superiority over her).

In T.A. 1945, Arvedui of Arthedain—who was married to Fíriel, daughter and only surviving child of King Ondoher—invoked the old Númenórean law to claim that he (not his wife) should be granted the throne. In fact, though, his wife's claims were mainly regarded as supplementary: his main argument was that his father as heir to the High-Kingship exercised authority over Gondor, and that accordingly in the absence of a close male heir to the dead King, the crown reverted to the High-King, or in this case to his heir (since he was married to the rightful heiress). It was this scorning of Gondorian independence which so annoyed the Southerners as to refuse the couple's claims: had the throne been claimed by Fíriel herself, or in her name only, there might have been different results. Instead, the Steward Pelendur gave the throne to Eärnil II, a prominent general, and a distant relative of the deceased Ondoher. Eärnil II was a direct male-line descendant of King Telumehtar Umbardacil (Eärnil's father was Siriondil, son of Calimmacil, son of Arciryas, son of Telumehtar). Ironically, the Kingship did eventually pass to Fíriel's line, in the person of King Aragorn Elessar.

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My former names on AU:
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However ---- if Aragorn in fact did have children, wouldn't it just continue as it did before he became king? That the Steward would simply be the one to rule the city, and that there simply would no longer be any king?

Joined: 02 January 2007Posts: 3224Location: The Lakeshore of AnnúminasCountry:

tindomerel wrote:

There would have been no king if Aragorn had not become King... he was the one, sole heir to the throne of Gondor. So, like Silfa said, I believe Denethor would have continued his power hungry rule of the city, perhaps even proclaiming himself king at last...then passing it to one of his sons.... however I don't really believe that would have happened either, as Boromir died protecting the Hobbits, I also believe if Aragorn and the Fellowship failed, Faramir most likely would have been killed as well in the war...and Gondor lost, so their king of sorts would have ended up being Sauron.. -shudders-

Now if Aragorn and Arwen had no sons,... as mentioned by others, I'd guess he would have appointed someone king after him, in that case maybe Faramir or another Dunedain as suggested previously.

(getting back to book related discussion) It would be very possible that had Aragorn and Arwen had no son, that the eldest daughter would have become Queen under the 'Numenorean clause' (I'm sure I read somewhere that they had daughters). I always wondered why there was queens in Numenor but not in the Numenorean Realms in Exile (Arnor and Gondor).

As for what may have happened if Aragorn became King but died before he could procreate, it is possible that Faramir would take up his role as Steward, but as the case would be that the King did not in this instance 'go missing' as King Eärnur did. Therefore, possibly a suitable line from one of the younger sons of Arvedui could be found? Interesting to think about this.

_________________~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~Dunedain Ranger of the NorthAnnalist, Physician, & Historianof The Black Company of the Dúnedain,The Free Company of Arnor

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