tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5640523748298984700.post1885445530677451654..comments2017-12-03T18:44:31.352-08:00Comments on Ahmed's Universe: SOW - A Comparison of 3 Global Cloud HR vendors: SAP, Oracle and WorkdayAHMED LIMAMhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07236581389052729195noreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5640523748298984700.post-18387008351299426092017-09-23T07:30:16.572-07:002017-09-23T07:30:16.572-07:00ADP&#39;s Core HR is very limited, so much so that...ADP&#39;s Core HR is very limited, so much so that for many global projects they position SAP&#39;s SuccessFactors Employee Central. Why be more Catholic than the Pope? AHMED LIMAMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07236581389052729195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5640523748298984700.post-37761017290898047702017-09-23T07:29:12.489-07:002017-09-23T07:29:12.489-07:00Infor was not included because it does not have a...Infor was not included because it does not have a global HR system of record worth its name. As soon as they scale up I will include themAHMED LIMAMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07236581389052729195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5640523748298984700.post-5399167313430831802017-09-23T07:28:10.948-07:002017-09-23T07:28:10.948-07:00As soon as you pay my fee I will embark on an exte...As soon as you pay my fee I will embark on an extension of this analysis. Or do you expect me to work for free?AHMED LIMAMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07236581389052729195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5640523748298984700.post-70197048008271746872017-09-08T01:19:19.951-07:002017-09-08T01:19:19.951-07:00The purist (I mean the snob) in me would say there...The purist (I mean the snob) in me would say there is no such thing as &quot;pure cloud&quot;. Only SaaS can be pure (Workday) or unpure/sullied/mock/faux/fake (Oracle Fusion, for instance). <br /><br />There is no inconsistency or snobbery in my rating Workday higher than SAP since Workday, no matter how limited its number of payrolls, delivers all pure SaaS whereas SAP is faux-SaaS and misleading customers by calling it Employee Central Payroll when it is SAP-based. Things may change when SAP delivers a global payroll based on SuccessFactors technology, which it is currently working on.AHMED LIMAMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07236581389052729195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5640523748298984700.post-55253198332730498652017-09-07T07:31:33.763-07:002017-09-07T07:31:33.763-07:00GREAT blogs. However, I have to take you to task f...GREAT blogs. However, I have to take you to task for an inconsistency. You correctly state that WD&#39;s payroll is a &quot;work in progress, with the last two countries released (UK, France)&quot; Yet you score WD GLOBAL Payroll as YELLOW (average). Alternately, SAP runs true global payroll and you code it as RED (poor). I am drawn to the conclusion that this is because you are a technology purist (Can I say SNOB in a loving tone?) focused on &quot;true&quot; cloud. This may matter to some CIOs, but not to CHROs. If we are honest, there are few drawbacks to hosted cloud payroll (SAP) but WD for global payroll is a non-starter. I have to give you a red-card on an otherwise great article.ppolittehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12267653486590286979noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5640523748298984700.post-40529167740698525902017-08-02T01:45:58.476-07:002017-08-02T01:45:58.476-07:00Great words are written in this article. Thanks a ...Great words are written in this article. Thanks a lot for Sharing<br />opal jaghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07067565613921289270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5640523748298984700.post-46738926358924970532017-08-01T00:48:48.703-07:002017-08-01T00:48:48.703-07:00Hi Ahmed. Wanted to follow up on this. SumTotal ha...Hi Ahmed. Wanted to follow up on this. SumTotal has a Core HR system that is not intended to replace something from a vendor like SAP or Workday, but is suitable for smaller companies who use their payroll or perhaps paper / excel for HR data. You can see more about the SumTotal Core HR offering at http://www.sumtotalsystems.com/solutions/core-hr/Tym Lawrencehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05971880639676000532noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5640523748298984700.post-71186054209068522432017-05-19T08:18:19.208-07:002017-05-19T08:18:19.208-07:001. If I write positive things about Workday, I am ...1. If I write positive things about Workday, I am &quot;pro-Workday&quot;. But since I also wrote a critical and well-read piece about them (&quot;An open letter to...&quot; http://bit.ly/2rm7sv1 ) then I must also be &quot;anti-Workday&quot;. So, which one is it? <br /><br />2. The point about integration is weak because, sure, there is a lot of value about integration but if that comes at the expense of user friendliness, ease of implementation and cost (think SAP), well, give me a less integrated offering like Workday which, by the way, more companies are adopting than SAP&#39;s or Oracle&#39;s own cloud system. Must be a good reason for that. <br /><br />3. Nothing wrong about having an opinion, as long as it comes with facts that I FREELY share with the whole industry. And it certainly beats parroting vendor&#39;s slogans slavishly.AHMED LIMAMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07236581389052729195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5640523748298984700.post-2381043988824472822017-05-15T12:49:35.390-07:002017-05-15T12:49:35.390-07:00I respectively tend to agree with Steve - it is a ...I respectively tend to agree with Steve - it is a well written article but I would classify it as an opinion piece by someone who has been writing pro-WD articles for years (as opposed to a pure unweighted comparative analysis). I could take a similar set of facts and write them with a pro-Fusion spin - i.e. highlighting Oracle&#39;s complete technology stack coverage; global capabilities; more robust analytics; mature payroll/time reporting, learning, talent acquisition and talent management modules; etc etc...and all for better pricing.<br /><br />You mention in the reply about WD being able to integrate the hodgepodge...general industry feedback has been pretty consistent that integration is one of WD&#39;s weak points, and therefore the fact that customers will almost always need to integrate something (due to incomplete functionality coverage) is a drawback to factor into a comparative analysis.<br /><br />As far as organic development goes, at some point this becomes a dwindling argument....certainly other vendors have been playing catch up in the cloud to WD, but for customers evaluating products these days, does it matter who was first or who was winning the race 2yrs ago? In a comparative analysis, it doesn&#39;t make sense any longer to give this point much weight and underplay other relevant factors.jeffreybpearsallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11740967674933619180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5640523748298984700.post-81874197395030865682017-02-10T08:28:25.971-08:002017-02-10T08:28:25.971-08:00Thanks for your query. I would recommend you conta...Thanks for your query. I would recommend you contact me via email: contact@AhmedLimam.comAHMED LIMAMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07236581389052729195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5640523748298984700.post-73511983304664264412017-02-10T07:52:48.713-08:002017-02-10T07:52:48.713-08:00Ahmed,
Merci for this article. We are currently ev...Ahmed,<br />Merci for this article. We are currently evaluating these 3 alternatives for HR, but discounted Workday as not having enough financials functionality to meet our needs. When you add the demands of finances and mobile, does either SAP or Oracle stand out to you? Do you like / dislike them for different reasons when you look at this side of the software?<br />Appreciate any insight...Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03321317847855087226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5640523748298984700.post-78000963176696487242016-09-22T03:48:25.570-07:002016-09-22T03:48:25.570-07:00Tym: Until and unless I see this Core HR offering ...Tym: Until and unless I see this Core HR offering and meet with customers who have implemented it, it does not exist. As for the content of a Core HR/HR Admin, all you have to do is to get a datasheet from SAP/PeopleSoft/Workday and look at it.AHMED LIMAMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07236581389052729195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5640523748298984700.post-34843894918810998112016-09-20T00:20:32.299-07:002016-09-20T00:20:32.299-07:00Hi Ahmed, SumTotal does have a Core HR offering th...Hi Ahmed, SumTotal does have a Core HR offering that has recently been updated, although I&#39;ve heard it said that we are not a provider of what is considered a &quot;full blown HRMS system&quot;.<br /><br />That said, as someone who is rather new to HR, I&#39;m wondering if you have any thoughts on the features expected in a Core HR system - as I&#39;d like to compare this to the SumTotal HRMS module.Tym Lawrencehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05971880639676000532noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5640523748298984700.post-47158229162662315212016-06-12T01:58:34.194-07:002016-06-12T01:58:34.194-07:00Hi Ming,
Of course I have heard of Ramco. As of t...Hi Ming,<br /><br />Of course I have heard of Ramco. As of today they are mainly a regional player with few global customers and more focused on one industry. But should they become truly global, then I will definitely include them.<br /><br />Regards,<br />AhmedAHMED LIMAMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07236581389052729195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5640523748298984700.post-92092588363603596272016-06-09T00:06:22.140-07:002016-06-09T00:06:22.140-07:00Hi Ahmed, Refreshing Article. Have you heard of Ra...Hi Ahmed, Refreshing Article. Have you heard of Ramco and where would you compare Ramco to SOW? Mingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5640523748298984700.post-75723495624194636322016-05-23T13:29:15.169-07:002016-05-23T13:29:15.169-07:00Unsure about the &quot;naked hubris&quot; but, any...Unsure about the &quot;naked hubris&quot; but, anyway, to your question why Workday&#39;s workflow is rated as &quot;good&quot; rather than &quot;excellent. Just because a vendor is &quot;better&quot; than its competitors (as Workday undoubtedly is on the workflow side) does not automatically mean it is excellent. To be excellent you are rated, not against your peers, but against an ideal, desired state, and I find Workday lacking in that respect. I gave an example of why in the post.AHMED LIMAMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07236581389052729195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5640523748298984700.post-25005554391828275072016-05-21T13:39:17.930-07:002016-05-21T13:39:17.930-07:00I&#39;ve read your posts before and was sometimes ...I&#39;ve read your posts before and was sometimes taken aback at the naked hubris but I suppose if you really do &#39;have it&#39; you might as well &#39;flaunt it&#39; and I see nothing in your analysis to dispute. I must confess to being an ex-Peoplesofter and a 9 year Workday veteran (Consultant, Trainer, etc.) so pre disposed towards Workday but your analysis seems objective enough and certainly I agree with the main points raised in it. One question-why is Workday &#39;Workflow&#39; only good and not excellent? I think it is one of the key differentiators, between Workday and the competition-what do you feel it lacks? Cheers, and keep on informing and entertaining.Matthew Hemingerhttp://wdposts.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5640523748298984700.post-67259687783929637992016-05-14T06:02:38.074-07:002016-05-14T06:02:38.074-07:00Tym: SumTotal/Skillsoft is not an HR vendor (missi...Tym: SumTotal/Skillsoft is not an HR vendor (missing core HR and other processes) but a TALENT vendor, that&#39;s why it is not included. Otherwise, I would also include Cornerstone, Saba, TalentSoft, Lumesse etc. <br /><br />I am not publishing your other comment as it is too confrontational with one of your competitors. My blog&#39;s aim is to enlighten user organizations, not to become a battling ground for vendors. AHMED LIMAMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07236581389052729195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5640523748298984700.post-57091402000031379902016-05-14T04:14:49.750-07:002016-05-14T04:14:49.750-07:00Interesting to note that Steve didn&#39;t feel the...Interesting to note that Steve didn&#39;t feel the need to disclose that his company KPIT is a SAP/SuccessFactors Consulting Partner that &quot;includes some of the most experienced SuccessFactors consultants on the planet&quot;. Vested interest perhaps?Tym Lawrencehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05971880639676000532noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5640523748298984700.post-81484040480918976192016-05-14T04:03:31.171-07:002016-05-14T04:03:31.171-07:00Hi Ahmed. Thanks for the great article. Your turn ...Hi Ahmed. Thanks for the great article. Your turn of phrase is most readable and certainly made me smile at times. <br /><br />One question though... you note that SOW are &quot;the only ones with a global reach to meet the complex requirements of multinational companies&quot;. What about SumTotal Systems (the company I work for) who were acquired by Skillsoft in 2014? <br /><br />SumTotal offer a full suite, admittedly based on acquisitions but which has recently been completely refactored into a single &#39;organic&#39; code-base. The company has nearly 30 years experience with 3,500+ customers including half the Fortune 500. Heck they have 45 Million users in 160 Countries and 29 languages! Surely those facts alone would warrant including SumTotal as one of the few vendors with a global reach to meet the complex requirements of multinational companies?<br /><br />Tym Lawrencehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05971880639676000532noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5640523748298984700.post-43844874511452838792016-04-27T06:57:01.074-07:002016-04-27T06:57:01.074-07:00Why stop at these three? It would be great to see ...Why stop at these three? It would be great to see this discussion expand to include other top contenders.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5640523748298984700.post-72569906481112775152016-04-26T07:40:34.967-07:002016-04-26T07:40:34.967-07:00Good summary, thank you Ahmed!
I hope you would c...Good summary, thank you Ahmed!<br /><br />I hope you would continue by doing investment calculation between these three tech providers with similar 3 years HR IT roadmap (usual) and then compare 5 years TCO analysis. I can say that the One is blody expensive compared two others and therefore not competitive most cases unless you have no budget or limits...:)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5640523748298984700.post-89037122154703385852016-04-23T08:24:37.437-07:002016-04-23T08:24:37.437-07:00Why is Infor not included in these discussion?Why is Infor not included in these discussion?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5640523748298984700.post-40855174813718139152016-04-22T14:24:53.425-07:002016-04-22T14:24:53.425-07:00@ Steve: Unlike others who censor those who strong...@ Steve: Unlike others who censor those who strongly disagree with them, I don&#39;t hide from a healthy debate. And here&#39;s my rebuttal to your points:<br /><br />1. Yes, it&#39;s my POV, what&#39;s wrong about that? That&#39;s why my blog is called &quot;Ahmed&#39;s Universe&quot;. <br /><br />2. You write that SAP and Oracle have &quot;highly developed partner channels&quot;. Well, in the on-premise ERP business maybe, but in the cloud business (this blog&#39;s topic) certainly not. Workday has boutique, cloud-focused and native SIs as partners, as well as the usual suspects (Big Four or Big Six, depending on how you assess them). And, by the way, talent does not refer only to implementation partners but to vendor talent (sales, product, consultants). <br /><br />3. Contrary to your assertions, SuccessFactors was NOT developed organically: there are different platforms as I clearly indicated. I am therefore amazed to hear you state something that is manifestly untrue.<br /><br />4. You predict that Workday will not continue as an organically developed vendor. Well, let&#39;s not speculate about the future, but if the past is anything to go by, that is highly unlikely: Workday has covered EVERY HR process organically, the last missing bit, LMS, being built this way. Why would they go and buy another company now, when they didn&#39;t do it when they needed it most? <br /><br />5. &quot;Ability to support a true global enterprise&quot;: Sure, SAP and Oracle can meet more needs than Workday but only by stitching together a hodgepodge of systems. Customer can do that on their own by picking their own systems, probably more reliably than SAP and Oracle in many cases. Workday covers less but at least it&#39;s all INTEGRATED. Since when did that concept become a dirty word? I remember vividly the time when both SAP and Oracle pitched the beauty of same-platform integration. It&#39;s only now that their cloud offering does not display the same integration quality that they claim integration is not that important. <br /><br />6. Finally, you seem to imply that my article&#39;s final recommendation is ALWAYS to go with Workday. Certainly not! As I summarized at the end of every vendor&#39;s profile, in some cases it would make sense for a customer to pick Fusion, in other cases SuccessFactors. I certainly do not call for a world where everybody is running the same HR system. That&#39;d be dreadful. I am on record for actively calling for a 4th global HR system of record to appear on the market (read my post on Cor(e)nestone HR.AHMED LIMAMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07236581389052729195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5640523748298984700.post-3188468839465058462016-04-22T12:40:05.198-07:002016-04-22T12:40:05.198-07:00Sorry,Ahmed - There are too many gaps in your asse...Sorry,Ahmed - There are too many gaps in your assessment to make it reliable for any decision making process. Unfortunately, it&#39;s skewed to your POV. I think you highlight certain points and by doing so over rate them to the exclusion of others. For example, you highlight talent quality for implementation. How can you do that fairly with Workday vs. Oracle and SAP, when both of the latter have a highly developed partner channel and Workday does not, which is a scalability issue. Here is another example. What is the true importance of being organically developed from a business perspective? SuccessFactors was an organically developed SaaS application predating even Workday before SAP purchased them. SAP has dumped tons of resources into the product to make it better, including integration effort. I would predict Workday, will not be able to make the same claim much longer. You never mention the ability to support a true global enterprise. Oracle and SAP exceed Workday here by a lot across the all functionalities. So for a Global company looking for full HCM suite, Workday has the most gaps. I am not a Workday hater. It&#39;s a very impressive application. However, when taking all business decision criteria as a whole, I think your article&#39;s conclusions miss the point in some key areas.Steve Bradleyhttp://www.linkedin.com/in/scbradleykpitnoreply@blogger.com