Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Not guns for everybody - just the able-bodied white males who could be called up for military service.

Well that was the original interpretation, in the good ol' days of the flint'loc. The more modern interpretation some have adopted is the 'more guns, not less' interpretation which sort of implies a gun for everyone.

My point was that the NRA calls on the constitution as the end all and be all, last word on gun ownership. Others would point out it is an out dated document and should not carry that much weight in the days of automatic single purpose weapons.

So trump might what to flip the argument about term limits and say the constitution is out dated?

Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Watson » March 7th, 2018, 4:39 pm wrote:The more modern interpretation some have adopted is the 'more guns, not less' interpretation which sort of implies a gun for everyone.

My point was that the NRA calls on the constitution as the end all and be all, last word on gun ownership.

Yes, and since it's a matter of interpretation, that one, too, can be quashed by a supreme court ruling. As long as anyone has a voice, there is no "last word".

So trump might what to flip the argument about term limits and say the constitution is out dated?

Sure. But, as I said, it would depend on how much support he could muster - not for the ten minutes that his average staffer stays on board, but for the long haul. What d'you give for his chances of holding and keeping a loyal power-base with enough clout to pacify the country?

Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

When examined on voir dire by the court a prospective juror is always asked this question:

“If you are selected as a juror in this case, will you follow the law as I will explain it to you, even if you personally disagree with the law?”

If the answer is “yes,” the prospective juror will not be excused.

If the answer is “no,” the juror will not, as a matter of law, be qualified to sit on any jury and will therefore be excused for cause.

If the court permitted a juror to disregard the law as it exists and substitute his own opinion as to what the law should be, the court would, in effect, be allowing a juror to change the rules in the middle of the game. This would be profoundly unfair to the parties who are prepared to present their arguments on the basis of the law, as they know it is.

The United States is a democracy. Plenty of opportunity is provided for citizen to petition state and federal legislatures to change a law with which they disagree. The people also have the right to peaceably assemble in protest of any law.

If anyone feels so strongly about a particular law that he decides deliberately to disobey it, he has a moral privilege to do so. However, with it comes a moral condition that he accept whatever punishment the law provides.

Without this acceptance, there is neither a moral nor a legal basis for civil disobedience. This is a lesson that the Mayor of Oakland, California has yet to learn.

Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Neri » March 7th, 2018, 9:26 pm wrote:The United States is a democracy. Plenty of opportunity is provided for citizen to petition state and federal legislatures to change a law with which they disagree. The people also have the right to peaceably assemble in protest of any law.

Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Neri » March 7th, 2018, 9:26 pm wrote:The United States is a democracy. Plenty of opportunity is provided for citizen to petition state and federal legislatures to change a law with which they disagree. The people also have the right to peaceably assemble in protest of any law.

Do you believe this?

I think it is true enough. That is not to say there would not be non-governmental (yet still political) opposition to such an act - we this all the time don't we?

When things get pushed too far then rebellions begin ans tyranny rises to beat down any protesters it can. At such a point the whole political infrastructure becomes so unstable that desperate measure take hold of people. No sensible governing body does anything to antagonise society and cause a political implosion (not intentionally anyway.) Although it is precisely the far left that does want precisely this; and being a peculiar type of anarchist myself I can understand it, but I don't condone it.

My view is the individual should treat themselves with anarchical rage and treat society with parental respect. I truly think the political divide is due to people severing themselves from themselves and projecting thheir fault others because they've not been given the means or know how of coming to understand themselves.

We're all just children who think we're better than children. The irony is children are most attuned to themselves than most adults, because they are right within the process of creating and individual setting for themselves. The issue us dumbo "adults" have is unearthing that childlike quality and nascent being in a clam and measured manner. We most certainly need to do so in order to keep moving forward.

Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Co-author of Trump's Art of the Deal on the topic of Trump's personal lawyer crashing the recent DOJ meeting, stating that "this is the history of tyranny" - at 5:00 - "you begin to break down people's willingness to resist". It seems that it is part of going after Rosenstein - if he denied the meeting then they'd fire him. And now he's allowing whoever to join the meeting, which would probably be a sackable offence if those meeting-crashers had not been Trump accomplices. Lol, he can't win - I wouldn't be surprised if Trump pulled another 'holier than thou' act and said Rosenstein shouldn't have allowed the chief of staff and his lawyer into the meeting, even though it was in Trump's interests that they were there. The same happened to Comey releasing the Hilary probe stuff just before the election - it was in Trump's favour but he wanted to appear principled and used that stance to fire Comey.

Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Trump’s authorship of the problematic response — confirmed for the first time by his own attorneys — was an intriguing aside in the letter in which the key point was that he is essentially legally untouchable because he is the president. He can’t be compelled to testify in the Mueller investigation, and has the power to shut down any Justice Department probe and pardon whomever he wants, according to the letter.

“Indeed, the President not only has unfettered statutory and Constitutional authority to terminate the FBI director,” the letter states, “he also has Constitutional authority to direct the Justice Department to open or close an investigation, and, of course, the power to pardon any person before, during, or after an investigation and/or conviction.”

Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Mattis, US Defense Secretary, emphasizes America's "moral authority" over other more dictator-driven governments who murder journalists and so on, whilst Trump apparently seeks to normalize such behaviour and jokes about copying it, even:

Trump escalated the tension on the Korean peninsula and is now using that situation in order to explain his appeasing of Kim - as an excuse for his befriending and complimenting him.

Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

It can't happen here. The United States is a functioning democracy with a robust constitution. Its president is (just kidding of course) about what a good idea it is to be dictator for life and have military parades to celebrate him. It will all be all right.

Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Just wow, look at these Republicans hammer deputy AG Rosenstein as he oversees the protection of US democracy from foreign adversaries:

How a would-be dictators cronies are willing to throw away their national dignity on camera like this is stunning. Of course it is happening all around the world right now in much less savoury and more private contexts. It is just stunning to see it in America.

Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

With Kavanaugh and Gorsuch rammed onto the court, there will be a 5-4 decision by the SCOTUS that a sitting president cannot be indicted for a crime. After eroding the Judiciary branch by controlling it, King Trump will pardon Manafort, pardon Cohen, pardon Papadopolous, and pardon Mike Flynn.

Thomas Jefferson wrote: He has obstructed the Administration of Justice by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers. He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries. For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit."

Every major figure in the history of civic government, every major writer and every major thinker, from Plato to Montesquieu ... from Rousseau to John Locke ... even Thomas Jefferson himself have all written about how kings do this. King Louis XVI. King George III. Joseph Stalin. All dictators and tyrants control the courts and weaponize it against their enemies. They use their office to pardon their friends.

Donald Trump does not care for the judiciary or its independence -- and neither do his MAGA-hat wearing zombie followers. They see the courts and crimes as "speedbumps" and temporary inconveniences to be "dispensed with". Just like Hitler did. Just like Stalin did. Just like _insert european monarch_ did.

With presidential pardons flying left and right, the trials of Manafort, Cohen, Flynn, and Papadopolous will not be criminal trials. They will be mock trials : just as Jefferson warned us about.

The MAGA hats will Sig-heil at their king, continuing to operate under the delusion that dictators seize power by "Taking arr gunz" and "Banning the Bible". Even though the entire swath of Western History (from Athenian city-states to Joseph Stalin) is screaming at them that is not the way monarchs have held onto power. Monarchs seize power and hold onto it by eroding the independence of the Judiciary. That's how they have been doing it for 10 centuries.

At base, the MAGA hats want a king. They don't want democracy. They don't want a Rule of Law. They want a Protestant Theocracy. They want a White Male Christian Emperor.

Donald Trump cares even less about the Rule of Law. He supposes he is above the Law.

If a sitting president cannot be indicted for a crime, then he could "shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and get away with it". And where did I get that example from? (oh, now I remember). Donald Trump said it himself, on camera.

Donald Trump has told his followers that the free press is an "Enemy of the people".

Donald Trump has gone on unhinged twitter rants about a "Criminal Deep State"

This is a psychological profile of a man whom would not leave his office on peaceful terms. He will not leave office as president, even when tanks are firing on the building.

Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

It seems that the West has been so enchanted with it's democracy and the political leverage and 'mission' it gave them to democratize the whole world (in their expected favour, let it not be ignored), that these ancient philosophers' words were apparently unknown - or actively played down.

Democracy is NOT the only way, it is A way.

Haha, the irony is that Trump's America will probably end up worse than a Communist-type state like N Korea at this rate. I am thinking he'll probably turn the USA into something more like a pseudo-religious quagmire like one of those "shithole" countries he so despises.

He's inherited a castle in the sky from his forebears and now he's gonna send it hurtling into the sewage below just like he did with his father's wealth - bankruptcy after bankruptcy.

You'd better strap yourself in...

Look at the Parthenon now - surrounded by Golden Dawn, look at Greco-Bactria - largest Buddhist stone-cut statues with heads blown off by the Taliban, look at Constantinople - seat of the Eastern Roman Empire - occupied by militant Dervishes.

Civilisations rise and fall - and tend to fall due to idiot tyrants like Trump.

Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

We live in an age in which the President of the United States jousts on twitter with a porn actress about the size of his genitals. America is a civilization in decline. The 'American Experiment' is over.

Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

We need to buy some new lab equipment, for sure. The old equipment seems to be covered with some unspeakable slimy material.

#45 recently passed the 5,000 mark, I noticed, on the running fackchecker tally of his lies since taking office.

The founding fathers went to a lot of trouble to design a government and frame a Constitution that would discourage any trend towards putting party before country and a regress towards monarchical rule. The experiment, at this point, is how strong those checks and balances are against rogue actors.

Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

The founders did not set up the U.S. as a democracy, but as a republic.

In this form, there were three branches of government, with one branch having two sub-branches: the presidency, the judiciary, and the legislature (sub-branches Senate and House)

Of those branches, only the House — one of two sub-branches of the legislature — was directly elected by the people, and also for the shortest term: two years.

Later things were changed, so that senators were also directly elected by the people. As to the presidency, the winner is still technically not elected directly by the people, but by the Electoral College. This body was intended (like the Senate) to consist of Wise Men who would vote for the best candidate. Instead, it became for the most part a rubber stamp. Had it performed its intended function, it would not have elected Trump. Alexander Hamilton wrote that the Constitution was designed to ensure “that the office of President will never fall to the lot of any man who is not in an eminent degree endowed with the requisite qualifications.” LOL.

Which raises a number of interesting ironies. Had full democracy been in effect and not artificats of republicanism (i.e., had there been no electoral college), then Clinton would be president because she got the most popular votes (democracy). Then again, had the EC acted as the founders intended (republicanism), then Trump still would not be president because, well, see Alexander Hamilton. The EC still can elect whomever it wishes — it does not even have to be any candidate on the ballot.

Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Welp -- It looks like Trump just auto-appointed Matt Whittaker as Attorney General. Whittaker has been placed "above" Mueller in the chain of command, presto change o. We should expect that while "Mueller will not be fired" , all the following events will transpire soon :

Whittaker will place a gag order on everything that the Mueller team can say or bring to court.

Whittaker will courier every shred of evidence known the Mueller probe directly to the President.

Whittaker will be a secret liaison between the FBI and the Oval Office.

Whittaker will not "officially stop" the Russian investigation. Instead he will rob it of all oxygen until it suffocates.

Thousands of protests have already lit up all over the United States.

Ruth Bader Ginsburg is in the E-R with broken ribs. At this point, if Ginsburg's seat opens up, Trump will ram a Kavanaugh-squared onto the courts. If der Fuhrer succeeds in appointing and getting a total wackjob onto the SCOTUS, I will seriously consider picket sign and battery operated blow horn -- onto the streets I will go.

Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Lol, I thought about posting on this thread today also - as soon as I read about the doctored CNN's Acosta 'laying his hands on young woman' video used to revoke his Whitehouse 'hard pass':

The above video shows how 3 frames were removed from the original video in order to make Acosta's arm's descent look more sudden and violent than the gradual, more graceful flow downwards in the original.

The 'young woman' had already attempted to take the microphone from over his left arm and had assertively made physical contact with Acosta before Acosta made contact with her, in any case, if the issue of any contact at all is more important to the WH's argument here....

Thus, the situation is incredibly dodgy because:

1) The issue of people making physical contact with one another is not logical, because the woman touched Acosta - and more aggressively so - first.2) The video 'evidence' submitted by the WH is provably fake, and therefore not valid.3) If both of the above issues are allowed to govern the revoking of press privilege of a journalist who has not reported on Whitehouse news in the way that Trump has wanted, then it is a clear message to all WH journalists that they must follow the media requirements of Trump, or else be denied access to the WH grounds.

This is just another step towards a dictatorship, and when coupled with all the others listed on this thread, the situation does appear dire, indeed.

Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

As I mentioned in the Trump fires Sessions thread, I attended one of the 900 US demonstrations in a bitter wind and minus 9 Celsius temps. Warm thoughts re Hyksos picking up a bullhorn. We're having a cold Fall here. Some years I haven't even taken the thermal base layers out of the off season drawer yet. I recommend joining these protests, even if physical misery is involved. You will feel better for making your voice heard. Just remember to be peaceful with hecklers.

Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Neri -- The United States is a democracy. Plenty of opportunity is provided for citizen to petition state and federal legislatures to change a law with which they disagree. The people also have the right to peaceably assemble in protest of any law.

I have it on strong authority that anyone with half a brain believes this.

But do it quickly!It won't be long before the truncheons, water-hoses and tazers come out. There's legal precedent for that, too.

Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Jeff Zucker, CNN’s worldwide president, wrote in a memo to staff that “we will always stand up for our rights. That is why we have filed our suit.”

He added: “The first amendment grants the right of all journalists to hold those in power accountable and ask tough questions.”[...]In a statement, CNN said it was bringing the lawsuit against the White House on behalf of all journalists, not just CNN.[...]One of the country’s leading first amendment lawyers, Floyd Abrams, told the Guardian that CNN’s litigation was well supported by first amendment principles. “A journalist may not be stripped of access because of distaste for his questions, a desire to retaliate against him for prior coverage or frustration at what the president may view as a hostile attitude,” he said.[...]The lawsuit has been strongly backed by the White House Correspondents’ Association that represents all reporters covering the White House. It said that “the president of the United States should not be in the business of arbitrarily picking the men and women who cover him”.[...]The White House said this was not the first time Acosta had refused to “yield to other reporters” during a press conference. “After Mr Acosta asked the president two questions – each of which the president answered – he physically refused to surrender a White House microphone to an intern, so that other reporters might ask their questions.”

It concluded: “The first amendment is not served when a single reporter, of more than 150 present, attempts to monopolize the floor. If there is no check on this type of behavior it impedes the ability of the president, the White House staff, and members of the media to conduct business.”

However, on the day, many of the other reporters present asked Trump more than one question, including asking follow-up questions.

The American Civil Liberties Union called the White House’s removal of Acosta’s pass “un-American”. It said: “It shouldn’t take a lawsuit from CNN to remind the president of the first amendment. The White House should reverse its decision immediately.”

Hmm, I wonder how long such a court case will go on for though... beyond a few weeks Trump 'the dictator' has definitely 'won' this battle. No reporter wants to be thrown out of the WH for months at a time. The beaurocratic process is Trump's friend in this regard. Who knows when Acosta will return there even if CNN wins?

Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Fox News has today sided with CNN and is filing an amicus brief. In other news, the moon turned blue and large flocks of flying pigs have been sighted across the world. JK, but I was glad that I can still be a little startled.