I am an Indian citizen myself and I do experience the current crisis in my country and see my country in shambles. But, I can see that the problems here are political. Our prime minister, Dr. Singh is a man of extraordinary caliber and it was his proficiency in economics that set the drive for our country's fast economic progress during the 90s and the early 2000s. The current problem here can be largely attributed to the active resistance by the opposition in parliament to any reforms that can be undertaken in a bid to improve the current economic scenario. The opposition is greedy for power and its numerous attempts to subvert this government have been prominent over the last two years. Being out of power for nearly a decade now, the opposition is waiting for its chance to form the government and it has stooped to new lows in the realization of its much longed endeavor.
What the world needs to understand is that people of India are not mature unlike the UK, France or the US. I do not see any reason why democracy will even work in my country. A democracy is said to perform well with an active government at the center and a constructive opposition in the parliament. Here in my country, the opposition is a destructive force and I have already explained why.
And now, coming to the talks about public outcry against corruption. Here again, the people have displayed an exaggerated sense of activism against the government largely owing to their immaturity in understanding politics. People have forgotten that it was this government which gave the RTI (Right to Information Act). Although it sounds a single law, its manifestations across various sectors have instilled a better sense of transparency in the activities of various government and non-government organizations. I can personally attest to the cleanliness of profiles of various leaders in the Congress government at the helm. The people here are devoid of a direction and targeting innocent leaders who have only upheld their cause for a better government free of corruption.
The campaign against corruption started last year by Team Anna has itself lost its credibility and it has failed in its efforts to become the voice of the people. I attribute its failure solely to its domineering attitude which saw it taking the government to ransom on numerous occasions. Are civil activists-led movements and campaigns above the government? I do not think so.
Lastly, campaigns against corruption (also against the government) led by theocratic leaders of Hindu ideology supported by the RSS have no credibility themselves. A self-proclaimed Hindu god-man with public appeal but with questionable integrity does not really have the moral standing to fight against this government which has at least been led by clean leaders like Sonia Gandhi and Dr. Singh.
The Congress on its part has definitely committed some mistakes which I would like to point out. At the first place, they should have stepped down considering the fact that there was a conspiracy plot in place to dislodge the government out of power. Secondly, it was a flawed decision to form a coalition with unreliable and untrustworthy parties who were sure to ditch the Congress during the times it needed them most. I believe that coalition cannot work in Indian politics anymore and the government formed must be out of a single political party so that it has a clear mandate and say in all the political and economic issues. This again can only be attributed to the immaturity of Indian state and its people.

Evidently, you are a Congress supporter, possibly a Congress politician.

People in India are slowly realising that most politicians -- irrespective of their party affiliations -- are corrupt and incompetent.

Please do not defend Congress. It looks plainly laughable.

As for Anna Hazare movement losing steam, everyone knows that it was a handywork of the government. They pressurised the press to write against Anna. It is a common knowledge that major media houses (HT, NDTV, etc.) are Congress mouthpieces.

If the campaign against corruption appears to have a Hindu tint that is simply because the leaders of other religious organisations have refused to participate saying that it does not concern them. There is nothing stopping Muslim or other religious organisation to stand up against corruption, except perhaps their own internal linkages with Congress. They don't even have to join Anna or Ramdev if they don't like them. They can simply create their own platform.

Whatever the politics, let us stop pretending that corruption is a minor issue in India.

Lol. I am just a Computer Engineer from Mumbai. Don't know how you developed the idea that I am a politician.

Now, I don't know how you got informed that Congress pressurized the press to write against Hazare. This is some new information to my ears. The very fact that most top media houses like HT and NDTV have at times supported the Congress is because they know politics better than regional and vernacular language mouthpieces. Anna Hazare did damage to his own reputation by going on hunger strike time after time and also by making silly remarks when the NCP leader got slapped.

Corruption is an issue which has always existed in Indian politics. But, what angers me most is that parties like the BJP speak as if they are the most innocent people on earth. Probe them and I am sure you will get a lot of illegitimate money stashed in their homes and other safe havens. Probe Mr. Raghavan of SIT. He may not be affiliated to the BJP, but I can sure see that he has doctored reports and manipulated facts on the riots of 2002. Probe every Hindu self-proclaimed godman and you will see a lot of illegitimate cash. Probe every VHP leader and you will see that most of them are corrupt. The ones found innocent are morally and ethically corrupt given that they want a Hindu state in our otherwise secular country. If you think I am not Hindu, I will make the statement clear, I am a Hindu. But when I see my kin wandering astray and asking for a Govt. headed by Hindu extremists, I can't take it. The very fact that Baba Ramdev has campaigned against corruption conveys an ulterior motive behind the same which is backing by the BJP and RSS. I am pretty sure Ramdev would not have risked doing this all himself given his questionable integrity.

I have adequate reasons to believe that this is a conspiracy hatched to subvert this Congress Govt. The BJP objected to Nuclear deal not because they were against it but only because they wanted to do it themselves and earn the honor for themselves. Each time a Congress minister was charged, they asked for his resignation and Congress even asked their leaders to step down unlike the BJP which bats for its leaders no matter what the magnitude of the crime their leaders are involved in. Did BJP let the winter session of the parliament function? No, they stopped everything. Latest in line being the FDI in retail which again is not something against the BJP policy, but tehy deem that objection to the same is inevitable considering the fact that Congress was facing opposition from all sides both within the UPA and outside the UPA. This was their best chance to weaken the Congress and attempt an entry into the Govt.

Some of BJP's top leaders have in fact been asking for Ram Mandir in Ayodhya at the site were The Holy Islamic shrine was demolished and justice has still not been meted out to the minorities here. Congress Govt. immediately cancelled Tytler's ticket considering his tainted image over his role in 1984 riots. Mr. Tytler was not even found guilty but he had a questionable image and Congress immediately went with the public sentiment. This is my answer to all those who suggest that Congress is pseudo-secular.

If ever they have blundered, it is in their decision to still stay in Govt. when baseless charges have been leveled against their top leaders. They have compromised on their dignity only for this country which has in fact given them nothing. The people of this country do not deserve the Congress leadership and they should immediately step down if they have self-respect and dignity. That's something I liked about Nitish Kumar who does not want power if the people don't believe in him. I don't even understand why Congress leaders even waste time in proving their innocence when in fact stepping down is a lot easier. If that happens, no matter who leads this country, I am pretty sure our country will head to damnation!

To your contention that BJP politicians are not "innocent", I agree with that. They too are corrupt. And so are politicians from other parties including Congress.

However, I don't accept the argument that because BJP politicians are not innocent, so it is OK for Congress politicians to be corrupt too. They all must be clean.

Also, we need to distinguish an argument from who is making it. If Ramdev demands clean governance, you can't demand the opposite just because you don't like him. It does not matter if Ramdev's integrity is questionable, we have to support his demand for clean governance because that demand is not just from him, it is from everyone.

So what if Ramdev has the backing of BJP?

The real question is why is Congress not doing anything concrete against corruption? Similarly, at the state level, why are various parties in power (including BJP) not doing anything against corruption?

My answer is very simple. You do not have much choice, do you? You personally affirmed that everybody is corrupt. Then, who do you pick? You obviously pick the best of the lot.
Now, in regard to what you said about Ramdev, it does sound very idealistic. You are saying that if the objective is correct, then the means don't matter. I totally disagree with you on that. Have you even wondered what would happen to the secular fabric of this country if the BJP comes into power? Also, seems like you don't mind a Hindu state in our country with people like Ramdev having a say in everything. Have you reflected on the plight that minorities will undergo when a BJP and RSS led state forms the Govt? I very well know that these issues are divergent from the corruption issue. But in regard to your statement that Congress has done nothing to nab the culprits, I can only say that you are being very unreasonable. You have forgotten the RTI, you have forgotten that only Congress ministers have stepped down on allegations against them. We have a very considerate Govt. which is open for dialogue but the people want to dictate terms to it. The Congress did agree on most points in the draft of Lokpal bill but Team Anna didn't budge. They let perfection be the enemy of the good. We could have had something now, but we have nothing now with all due thanks to those who started this buzz. Nobody is ever above the Govt. If you want to dictate terms to the Govt., why even vote them into power? let everybody do what he/she wants in this country and let there be no leader! I am afraid this is happening right now with active insubordination on part of the people.
The BJP and other regional parties, let me assure you will never act against corruption because they are most vulnerable.
We need to be practical. We know we have no choice and the Congress is indisputably the best this country can get! Let's stop complaining and get back to work. We must understand that we are seeing tough times today all thanks to a year of protest with no constructive activity.

I am taking up your points, not in the same order:
1. Demolition of holy shrine: The place was Ayodhya, the birth place of Lord Ram. I can give you countless examples of Hindu shrines which have been demolished to give way to Muslim and Christian places of worship, most notably, the Kapaleeshwarar temple, Chennai. The Lazarus Church at Santhome stands in its place and the Kapaleeshwarar temple has is at a new location since the last 300 years. The temple itself is believed to have existed from the 4th century. Persecution of Hindus is documented extensively. This was a stray reaction just once. Are you going to dismiss demolition of Hindu places of worship as "history" just because they did not happen in the 90's?
2. About Jagdish Tytler and the Sikh riots. You might have been a small child, or not born at all when it happened. the magnitude of the riots was one of the largest in the history of India. I still have images of small Sikh children being chased by Congress goons and killed in front of my eyes. Installing Dr. Singh as Prime Minister to assuage Sikhs is at best, the cheap symbolism that Congress is famous for.
Cancelling Mr.Tytler's ticket is like asking the murderer to wash the stains from the knife before he leaves the place..how's that for punishment?
3. About Opposition hankering for power- I think that's their job. Every political party has a right to aspire for power.
4.About Corruption- Nobody puts any politician of any hue above board. But scientific corruption was institutionalised by the DMK and Congress has surpassed them.
5.We have had enough of family of the mysterious queen and the Idiot Prince.. now for a change, how about a real thinking government that actually works? All of us "educated, intellectual, and lastly the middle class"-- how about getting down to the ground and getting our hands dirty and work for the country instead of depleting our fingers and the characters of our laptop and not moving our ***es?

Two wrongs don't make a right. I have very well been to the Kapaleeshwar temple in Chennai (not once, but twice) and I can at least remember that most of the structure was in place. Chuck that, if demolition of Hindu shrines was wrong (which is wrong undoubtedly), how does that justify demolition of Babri Masjid?

I never supported Mr. Tytler. I welcomed Congress move in cancelling his ticket. 1984 Sikh riots are indeed a national shame and what Rajiv Gandhi is supposed to have said after the riots is another universal shame. But does that cleanse BJP of the numerous sins they committed during the Godhra riots? Chuck that, does it justify the act only because Congress set the example? Tell me that first. Who in your opinion is more secular today- The Congress or the BJP? You may vote into power your personal choice, that is irrelevant to me, but you can't say that the Congress has no merits absolutely. Their merits have only been overlooked by all in this country.

I do not quite agree with the fact that opposition is tasked with the job of subverting the Govt. so as to assume power themselves. If that's the case, it is only a destructive opposition which will always fail our country.

All leaders from TN are corrupt. AIADMK is no better. People have forgotten the magnitude of corruption she committed during the early 90s. She is any case more of a problem than help.

I don't mind doing the groundwork myself but you guys need to wait. All I am saying is that we need to wait patiently. No change can ever happen overnight! We just need to stop doing stupid things in a haste.

P.S: I even recommended your comment bro. I just want to make it clear that this is nothing personal. Our collective desire for the Ideal India will take sometime to manifest itself. Let us all clean up the mess together. I am sure India will indeed shine tomorrow but the wait is inevitable.

In any case, it is evident that the Congress has taken accountability for the riots in 1984 unlike the BJP which claims absolute innocence. The Congress leadership is repentant and it was this guilt that manifested itself in the cancellation of Tytler's ticket for the election candidacy.

I am not talking about choosing between Congress or BJP, that will be done by the voters at the time of election. My point is simply that the economic growth of the country has suffered due to corruption, and the government needs to now do something about it.

While RTI was a good law from Congress, the government needs to do much more. If the government was serious about corruption, it would catch the corrupt officers by thousands every month. How many officers get punished for corruption in reality?

A corrupt minister stepping down is not punishment. The punishment would mean jail.

The Lokpal Bill got killed because government was bent upon converting it into a Jokepal to protect the politicians and bureaucrats. They systematically diluted the bill. Not only that, they included the NGOs in the scope while removing the lower bureaucracy!! They fooled the public in April by making false promises and then again in August. It wasn't killed by Team Anna, they were the ones who brought it back to life.

Take a minute and think about massive scams underway in just about every department funded by the taxpayers -- whether at centre, states, police, taxes, defence, judiciary, etc. And Congress is just not proposing what it wants to do.

Protesting against corruption is not waste of time. If you want any semblance of development, then governance must be cleaned up.

I personally tender you my heart-felt apology. I think I have not communicated my message properly. If I did, this debate would not continue. I feel deeply hurt by the fact that people think I am pro-Congress and anti-Hindu. I think I can resolve this issue best my keeping my mouth shut and let things happen as they would in due course. I only believed that belonging to the majority community myself, the interests of minorities be protected and today, I cannot personally see anybody better than the Congress. May be even the Left, SP and BSP, but they don't have a national appeal.
One thing, I appreciate your extended patience and dignity. You have superb communication skills and you exhibit decency and dignity of the highest order. I can see that on reading your replies. You are truly a gentleman with the finest upbringing. These are some vital lessons I can learn from people like you and better my own personality. I have understood that smartness is not in raising your voice but in amending the tone.
I concede defeat here, ankur1172 and I only hope the best for my country. On being repeatedly questioned, I have understood that if ever there is a mistake, it is in me and it is in the interest of my country that I shut up.
I only hope the best for my country no matter whoever leads her. My only longing is for a great and magnanimous India where interests of everybody, majority and minority are protected alike. I want to see India doing well at the global level and want peace and prosperity back in our country.
I thank everybody for participating in this talk and enlightening me regarding all the issues. Had it not been for you folks, I would not have opened myself to different views.

Protecting minority interest was never the agenda of the Congress. Protecting anybody's interest is not the agenda of any politician.
If any society/community/group of people are to develop, then the initiative has to come from them. As for the Muslims, the entire political class has done them huge disservice and helped them protect status quo.
Let me tell you that if anybody is seriously interested in the welfare of Muslims, education must be made compulsory for all Muslim Women. Has any of the political ilk suggested this?
My biggest complaint with the Congress is that in wanting to be the Establishment, they have continuously upheld status quo and consistently refused and rejected all attempts of a renewed social order.
If India's development is to be equitable, then the fruits of benefits have to reach everyone.It cannot be bestowed upon people by the Establishment- The biggest case in point is the NREGS.
Congress would like to see the last of its days distributing patronage.I would rather that a political party which is less arrogant and less drunk on power, bumble its way into power( don't read BJP, read anti-establishment), make mistakes but for GOD'S SAKE, decentralise power..
Let's get decent roads(definitely a claim to fame for the BJP under whose government the golden quadrilateral started), electricity(Gujarat is full of anecdotes on this.. haven't verified them), decriminalisation(Bihar),beautiful infrastructure(Delhi and Sheila Dixit), clean toilets for the poor, basic education for all and especially girls. Is this too much to ask? NO.
And if I have to be asking for these things more than 60 years after independence, instead of taking them for granted, whom should I blame?
I think, first myself..i could have done more..but at least some part of it will go to the most conscientious and the relatively clean Congress party that ruled India for the last several decades?
P.S: It is not my point that two wrongs make a right. But things look more objective when viewed in perspective, rather than in isolation?

About Kapaleeshwarar temple: This is the structure that got built 300 years ago after they found another spot for the temple. This temple was not damaged, so you see it intact. The St.Lazarus Church stands in the place of the original temple, which was a 4th Century temple. That was destroyed by the Church and the Luz Church came in its place. Goa is full of these churches, where originally Hindu temples stood.
Again, to give you the facts..NOT to support retaliation:)

Like I just said, I want peace and prosperity in my country. I do not bother who achieves these objectives. You are not lone in your sense of feeling cheated by Congress for over 60 years. In regard to equitable distribution of wealth, I do not think Congress could have done any better. We all know that India under Indira Gandhi was largely socialist and if the conditions of the poor have not really improved under a socialist regime, you cannot really ask for more.
But one cannot entirely deny the fact that even the conditions of the poor have improved after liberalization of Indian economy. From mere hand to mouth existence, many of them are doing much better now and are today able to educate their kids and even give them vocational computer education which has greatly empowered them. eg. the watchman of my building whose son passed the CA examination, our maid whose daughter is now a TALLY professional. There is definitely a change, but people I believe have largely ignored it and some intentionally overlook it.
Again, if in your belief somebody else can deliver all that the Congress hasn't, I only hope your favorite leader and party wins the next election. All I want is progress, don't care who works for the reforms and brings in that much needed progress which you just described above. I do not have much faith in the leadership of opposition parties nor its workers at the grassroots. Nitish Kumar is one leader I truly admire but progress of Gujarat cannot be directly attributed to the management by the BJP administration in the state. Gujarati community is very prosperous on the whole and there are no exceptions here. I stay in an area of Mumbai where Gujarati dominance can be clearly seen. Gujaratis are very smart businessmen and they never were poor. How can a state be poor if its people collectively are rich?
The very fact that Congress has won so many elections right from the time India got her independence suggests that they have fared pretty well. Leaders like Nehru and Indira Gandhi actually commanded respect. Some argue that this is some dynasty politics, but people have largely had faith in the integrity of Gandhi family. Why else would they vote them into power time and time again?
THERE IS ALSO SOMETHING ELSE WHICH I NEED TO TELL YOU: CONGRESS LEADERS LIKE SONIA GANDHI AND DR. SINGH HAVE DIGNITY OF THE HIGHEST ORDER. To support my view, let me remind you that after the results of Lok Sabha election of 2004, a top leader of BJP announced that if Sonia Gandhi becomes the Prime Minister, she would go bald. What does this suggest about the dignity of this top leader from BJP? Sonia Gandhi just offered the honorable post to Dr. Singh. Who is more dignified here? My take, Sonia Gandhi. Personally, I want leaders who are dignified and behave like civilized individuals. If the leader of my country is not worthy of respect, how is he entitled to be the leader of this large country of more than a billion people?
P.S: If I have been supportive of the Congress all along, it is only because I believe in what I see. I do not have prophetic or mind-reading abilities. I do not care about the intention of a politician if he does good things. I do not believe that all politicians are bad. We are tasked with identifying the good ones around. This is possible only if we are not cynical. At some point we need to stop the blame game and do some real work!

We have seen numerous instances of abuse of human rights and religious intolerance in world history. What I have been stressing all along is that with changing times, people need to change.

People in the past were devoid of education and carried out such horrific acts causing damage to pre-historic art and culture which I certainly condemn. This is no less a crime than the destruction of the Buddha statues at Bamiyan. But we also need to remember that these incidents in world history should not be misused time and time again to demolish more mosques, churches and other holy places of worship of the minorities. VHP leader just the other day said the same thing and in his opinion more mosques at Mathura, Varanasi(dont know which other place) need to be brought down given that in the past, these places bore Hindu temples.

True the bjp is corrupt but the sums involved in the present govt r staggering- hundreds of thousands of crores.
Let' see if the bjp is any better if and when it comes to power.
In fact a good case can be made that they r birds of the same feather-look at how after opposing it tooth and nail when in opposition, the bjp welcomed enron with open arms in its govt.
So far we r lucky that no one's touched the rbi's fx reserves. In many African countries the reserves were syphoned out into private Swiss a/cs.
That day one prays will never come. If it does, we can call curtains to India.
U get it. Unless corruption is downsized to small levels and governance improves, growth will be sig below potl.
In turn, it means an enlightened electorate.
The necessary condns r too stiff at least for the next decade.
Politicians of all hues rejoice.

Thanks Sir, you seem to be the only one who thoroughly understood me. I am very grateful to you. Yes, we need to wait and see what today's critics of the Govt. can do tomorrow if at all they come to power.

True the bjp is corrupt but the sums involved in the present govt r staggering- hundreds of thousands of crores.
Let' see if the bjp is any better if and when it comes to power.
In fact a good case can be made that they r birds of the same feather-look at how after opposing it tooth and nail when in opposition, the bjp welcomed enron with open arms in its govt.
So far we r lucky that no one's touched the rbi's fx reserves. In many African countries the reserves were syphoned out into private Swiss a/cs.
That day one prays will never come. If it does, we can call curtains to India.
U get it. Unless corruption is downsized to small levels and governance improves, growth will be sig below potl.
In turn, it means an enlightened electorate.
The necessary condns r too stiff at least for the next decade.
Politicians of all hues rejoice.

India has huge potential, at least that of China, and the expertise to solve its problems and get back on track, if it will only put the right people into place and actually work at it. And the U.S. should help. Insuring the world's largest democracy continues on the path to prosperity should be a fundamental security interest of the United States. President Bush knew that. Obama has been a disaster. Let's hope that President Romney will see the terrible mistakes made by Obama and stregthen American / Indian ties and economic cooperation!

If nothing else, India always has potential. It had great potential when it became independent; it has potential today to become a "souper-power" in 20xx; it will continue to have potential if only for the fact it has a huge and fast-growing population.

I should preface this by saying I'm no expert on India despite being Indian, since I've lived in America most of my life and haven't taken an interest until recently. This may be a banal statement to some.

The caste system, as you may know, has divided on the basis of occupation for thousands of years. The result has been that India contains several Jew-like communities (two of which I come from). These communities comprise probably 6 or so percent of India total, but have essentially a monopoly on everything from business to India's scientific achievements. Even in America, whenever they think of Indians they think of Sanjay Gupta (Agarwal Baniya), Bobby Jindal (Agarwal Baniya), Freddy Mercury (Parsi), Ramanujan (Tamil Brahman), or so on. From the outside looking in, the benefits of India's growth, too, seem to have been monopolized by these communities. So although 6% growth doesn't seem like much for a country of 1.2 billion, these communities alone are raking in billions.

Fortunately, though, there's hope because of the caste-based affirmative action that has been put in place since the 90s. Reading comments made by Indians online that unanimously show love for their fellow man, be they a different ethnicity (caste) or religion, further strengthens this hope. I think India will eventually become a superpower, but the harm caused by several thousand years of the caste system will take at least a couple decades to completely undo.

Once it is undone, India's main asset is its people. Despite the extreme disparities, diversity, and mistreatment some have had to endure, India still has a murder rate that's lower than that of white Americans. The fact that India is somehow capable of bringing such diverse elements together -- not without some infighting -- is a beautiful thing to see.

And I realize "Jew-like" can be taken the wrong way, but hopefully no one derives implications that aren't there. I simply mean that Jews are a very successful group of people due in part to their history, which includes occupational specialization.

I made the same point in my comments few days back. It is amazing that while, you as an expatriate living most of your life abroad, saw this fundamental and detrimental weakness of the Indian society, many Indians, particularly the elite (your 6%) who run India, do not see the most obvious and fatal weakness in the Indian society.

Without strong political and social movements (probably a revolution) by the younger Indians to breakdown the entrenched cast system, I doubt this most racist system could could be eradicated in a few decades.

Your comparison of murder rates between the USA and India may be misleading; it may be thanks to the subservient docile tendency of the oppressed lower casts, which arise from their almost complete absence from the society's political, state and economic power structures. But that is changing in the information age, which is evident from the cast based political upheavals and Maoist insurgencies in the Hindi belt states, and in Nepal.

I fear that,thinking traditionally and focussing on the 6%, India would miss the demographic opportunity and advantage it has over China with a growing proportion of younger population.

I should preface this by saying I'm no expert on India despite being Indian, since I've lived in America most of my life and haven't taken an interest until recently. This may be a banal statement to some.
The caste system, as you may know, has divided on the basis of occupation for thousands of years. The result has been that India contains several Jew-like communities (two of which I come from). These communities comprise probably 6 or so percent of India total, but have essentially a monopoly on everything from business to India's scientific achievements. Even in America, whenever they think of Indians they think of Sanjay Gupta (Agarwal Baniya), Bobby Jindal (Agarwal Baniya), Freddy Mercury (Parsi), Ramanujan (Tamil Brahman), or so on. From the outside looking in, the benefits of India's growth, too, seem to have been monopolized by these communities. So although 6% growth doesn't seem like much for a country of 1.2 billion, these communities alone are raking in billions.
Fortunately, though, there's hope because of the caste-based affirmative action that has been put in place since the 90s. Reading comments made by Indians online that unanimously show love for their fellow man, be they a different ethnicity (caste) or religion, further strengthens this hope. I think India will eventually become a superpower, but the harm caused by several thousand years of the caste system will take at least a couple decades to completely undo.
Once it is undone, India's main asset is its people. Despite the extreme disparities, diversity, and mistreatment some have had to endure, India still has a murder rate that's lower than that of white Americans. The fact that India is somehow capable of bringing such diverse elements together (not without some infighting) is a beautiful thing to see.

Are you forgetting that the West has already developed? Even for all its supposed economic success, China's per capita GDP is on par with Brazil.

Sure, the West has problems with debt. Nobody is downplaying those (certainly not me). But the West has developed and its citizens have high living standards.

This is not the case for the BRICs. Brazil is notorious for its inequalities. Russia is notorious for its oligarchies. India is notorious for red tape and corruption. And China? Well Shanghai may look like New York, but the rest of China looks like Sub-Saharan Africa. Great if you live in Shanghai. Not so great if you're a Uighur living out west.

Schadenfreud will only give you temporary pleasure. It won't really solve or remove any of your problems in the long run. How does the failure of the UK (not where I'm from by the way...) help China at all?

And really, such tosh is merely a sign of ethno-centric immaturity.....something like "my dad is stronger than your dad."

No, not at all. Only history will tell the truth. And history tell me a strong country will eventually come down, no matter how strong it was.

When you said India will be a super nation, it is exactly base on history teaching. "when things reach an extreme, they can only move in the opposite direction (idiom)". Now the US is still a super country, for how long!! Your life is short, but history is long.

Apparently, your Chinese boosterism does not let you process caveats. Yes, I said India could be a great nation. But you missed the caveats that followed.

In the post-industrial networked world we live in, having a few hundred million English speakers who can handle high-value back-office tasks is a definite asset. Are you going to deny that?

And it's certainly not a stretch to say that selling services offers substantially more economic potential than make widgets for Walmart. Accountants, marketing staff, IT managers, etc. all get paid more than assembly line workers in Guangdong. It's quite easy to imagine a future where virtually every multi-national in the world has a huge portion of its back-office from payroll to IT to HR to perhaps even legal, based in India.

And that kind of development does not require massive infrastructure investment. Good internet connectivity, some office space, reliable power supplies, and a strong education system pumping out adaptable english speaking graduates. Et voila!

Of course, like I said, that kind of development does require a culture that supports economic liberalization. The caveats are important.

ps. Since you subscribe to some kind of "what goes up, must come down" philosophy, I hope you realize that consistency demands that you think this would apply to China too. Personally, I don't think a "great" or "super" nation necessarily implies superpower status. That entails far more than economic success.

Indian and China are both coming up. Western nations are going down. England is behind Brazil, number 7 world economy in the world. Very soon it will be no meaning in the world economy.

"having a few hundred million English speakers"
You mean Inglish speakers?

"And that kind of development does not require massive infrastructure investment."
Are you dreaming of virtual electricity and virtual highway and virtual food? Photoshop may be helpful to fulfil your dream. I want real highway and real electricity!

IT outsource=/=IT manager
Call center is not hightech
Greencard Indian IT is not Indian IT expert in India, but rather just American human resource.

To be a great nation, India need to lift up poverty, clean water... Basic Human Right for all Indian.

God you are ignorant and racist to boot. And what's with this constant effort to put down India and the West. Are you 15?

"You mean Inglish speakers?"

Really?

Hasn't stopped Western multi-nationals from off-shoring tons of work to India. Apparently, Western managers aren't as bothered by an accent as you are.

"Are you dreaming of virtual electricity and virtual highway and virtual food? Photoshop may be helpful to fulfil your dream. I want real highway and real electricity!"

Again. Hasn't stopped substantial off-shoring till now, has it? I've been to Bangalore. I can assure you that Dell's office there was not photoshopped. Better infrastructure will only bring more growth. I can agree with that.

"IT outsource=/=IT manager
Call center is not hightech
Greencard Indian IT is not Indian IT expert in India, but rather just American human resource."

Such ignorant tosh.

Have you ever actually worked in an office? You obviously don't understand outsourcing. Call centres are old news. IT is old news. Even in the US. Now they are outsourcing accounting, HR, even legal. Engineering and development is sometimes being outsourced. A bigger reality is partial outsourcing. Virtually every major firm has an office in India, if at least to take advantage of the time difference (get work done overnight). This keeps work going 24 hours. It's entirely normal in many offices, to simply email what's left to be done to the Indian office at the end of the workday so that it's done by the time you get to work in the morning.

"Indian and China are both coming up. Western nations are going down. England is behind Brazil, number 7 world economy in the world. Very soon it will be no meaning in the world economy."

It's good if the developing world comes up. I support policies that lift millions out of poverty. And I really don't care where it happens. As for the Western nations "going down", are you that ignorant that you can't understand the economic implications of that? Since when is economic growth a zero-sum game?

And surely you understand the concept of per capita wealth. Does it matter to the average Brazilian that the UK is behind Brazil in absolute economic size? Who has the higher quality of life? The Brazilian or the Brit?

"To be a great nation, India need to lift up poverty, clean water... Basic Human Right for all Indian."

Never said otherwise. This is why I don't buy the argument that China is great either. I've seen rural China. It's not far from rural India. The difference between the two countries is entirely attributable to China's rapid urbanization and concentrated development in China's urban areas. Take that away and rest of China is on par with sub-Saharan Africa. Just like rural India....

Anyway. This is my last post. I don't debate immature 15 year old nationalist internet trolls.

India doesn't have a sizeable domestic market for IT. Hence its heavy reliance on outsourcing work for developed nations. China on the other hand, has a huge and fast growing IT market, one that the local job market is struggling to catch up.

Just because China didn't have 200 years of English-speaking colonization experience doesn't mean they can't catch up in English and in BPO (Business Processing Operations). Case in point is Hangzhou wc excels in software and BPO.

Also Call centers in the Philippines has recently trumped that of India in size and value. Most Americans can't tolerate the pidgin English accents of Indian call agentsn (and their arrogance). Remember that fiasco of 2004 where Indian Call Centers were bombarded w American complains againts agents of Dell in India. Dell had to move back its call center operations.

From some of the news I've heard on radiio, La Raza is trying hard to win back most of these low end IT and HR jobs from India and the Philippines, than factory jobs from China. Most of these IT related positions, if returned stateside, would potentially be filled by Hispanics and African-Americans -- traditionally the bedrock of the Democratic party. As fate may have it, this is an election year where the Democrats are trailing badly. I doubt if Obama and the Democratic Congress can afford to antagonize these 2 power groups. That's why, the Indian "droopy" rupee has been tumbling uncontrollably close to 56, its lowest in a decade.

"Hence its heavy reliance on outsourcing work for developed nations. "

Isn't this stating the obvious? This is like saying that China is reliant on exporting consumer goods to developed markets because it doesn't have the same demand at home.

"Just because China didn't have 200 years of English-speaking colonization experience doesn't mean they can't catch up in English and in BPO (Business Processing Operations). Case in point is Hangzhou wc excels in software and BPO."

Uggh. Again, the simplistic two horse race mindset. I've never said China doesn't have BPO. But it's undeniable that India is developing a niche in BPO. Like I said, it's now entirely normal in many Western workplaces to email your data to your Indian office at the end of the work day. They crunch the numbers and you have it when you get back to work. This isn't some random outsourcing. This makes the Indian office as crucial as the American or European one. It becomes part of the 24 hour work rhythm. And that carries many implications.

"Also Call centers in the Philippines has recently trumped that of India in size and value. Most Americans can't tolerate the pidgin English accents of Indian call agentsn (and their arrogance). Remember that fiasco of 2004 where Indian Call Centers were bombarded w American complains againts agents of Dell in India. Dell had to move back its call center operations."

If India is still reliant on call centres in 30 years, they will have failed spectacularly. As costs rise, one would expect companies to move. Aren't we seeing the same thing in manufacturing? ie. Taiwan to China and then China to Vietnam?

Besides which, you're going to take a single anecdote and generalize on that? So are we going to suggest that all food manufacturing will move away from China because of the pet food poisoning cases? Such an assertion would be asinine.

"From some of the news I've heard on radiio, La Raza is trying hard to win back most of these low end IT and HR jobs from India and the Philippines, than factory jobs from China. Most of these IT related positions, if returned stateside, would potentially be filled by Hispanics and African-Americans -- traditionally the bedrock of the Democratic party. As fate may have it, this is an election year where the Democrats are trailing badly. I doubt if Obama and the Democratic Congress can afford to antagonize these 2 power groups. That's why, the Indian "droopy" rupee has been tumbling uncontrollably close to 56, its lowest in a decade."

Poppycock. The rupee has stumbled because of recent economic news (chiefly poor growth). It's not stumbling because there's some vague fear that a Democratic President will be re-elected and having failed to repatriate call centre jobs, will do so in his second term. What actual evidence do you have that Obama made any attempts to repatriate call centre work in his first term? But when you watch CNN though, there's lots of talk about manufacturing jobs and about the "decimation" of American manufacturing. I'd be far more worried about protectionism on manufacturing than protectionism on services.....and more worried on protectionism in general!

If you really want to play that two horse, why not start discussing what happens to Chinese manufacturing as shipping costs rise (with the price of oil) and modern technologies like 3D printing and processes like rapid prototyping dramatically reduce lower the barriers to local and mass production? Case-in-point: Tesla Motors. A nice high-tech automobile that Forbes magazine has suggested could be the next major automaker in the US. They don't manufacture anything in China. Not because of quality (though they had quality concerns) or some patriotic sentiment. But because in the word's of Elon Musk, they found China "uncompetitive".

In any event, this whole discussion has gone down the rabbit hole because PL123 had some juvenile reflex kick off against my assertion that India could have grown faster than China had it resolved problems with corruption. I don't think that's a very controversial statement at all. Nor is it a slight on China. Kudos to the Chinese for striving hard and succeeding in their development.

Read my original comment. I see all the BRICs stumbling. Not just India.

"Most of these IT related positions, if returned stateside, would potentially be filled by Hispanics and African-Americans -- traditionally the bedrock of the Democratic party."
Good god say it ain't so. Have you ever spoken to a black person on the phone or have to get service from a hispanic person? They are rude beyond believe. I'd rather put up with an Indian or Filipino accent anyday. At least they're (mostly) polite.

China already has a well developed IT industry twice bigger than India, but Indian IT industry outclasses China by quality and productivity.
Its not just about English speaking populations, the good will too matters.
And I don't get it, why on earth are Indians and Chinese fighting over it. We are supposed to allies working together. Chinese production and Indian services, will replace the western trend.
Why do people fail to look at thing in this way?

The comments have confirmed -- go figure -- that people are fickle. They should be taken with a grain of salt, essentially all of them either repeating stereotypes that are not grounded in reality, or making wild claims fueled by obvious biases (or both). The second India enjoys another dose of high growth, the Economist and the posters here will be touting India as a future superpower again. Unless they're Pakistani or Chinese, of course.

We all know that corruption in India is holding back tremendous potential. The human potential in India and the base for a strong services based economy could have had India surpassing China in a generation or less....except for the corruption and red tape.

As politicians backtrack on reforms (just look at the debates against letting in foreign retailers solely to protect unproductive and lazy bhaiyas who starve poor rural farmers), it's fair to ask if the recent growth is more a spurt than a new normal.

I have never touted India as a future superpower. Actually plenty of non-Indian and non-Chinese hold this view as well. It is predominantly Indians think they are a superpower in the making.

Most do not even know the true meaning of a superpower. India may be a world power but then again so is Japan, Germany, France and Russia. That does not mean any will be a superpower.

There is no guarantee that high growth will return. Perhaps India will never work properly. Perhaps it will have its EU moment when it starts to realise that the ties that bind the whole lot together are also the ties that are holding some back from their full potential.

But no, India will not be a superpower. A big population, a big economy and a big army does not equate to SUPER, just equates to BIG.

On the contrary, though, what is a superpower except a country with a big population, a big economy, and a big army? That's essentially what America is, no? Or does it also depend on how much such a country decides to meddle with the rest of the world? In that case, the difference seems marginal and India may very well be a superpower after all. If, on the other hand, it depends on just how big; well, then your comments don't make much sense to begin with.

An earlier definition of poverty level was $1/day. Now it is $2/day. At this poverty level, approx. 750 million Indians fall at or below the poverty line. That's more than the entire population of sub-Saharan Africa.

You need not to worry for India. It has the best democracy system, this government not functioned, then another government will come in 1-4 years until they find a perfect government. Time is on their side, at least they have 3,500 years to go. No country can compare with Indian caste culture, time will tell you the truth. In another 3,500 years you can come back to the forum and see how bright India will be !! Do put on your darkest sunglass on, because India will be bright and glory!! You will envy!!

I appreciate their long history and democratic tradition, but I hope that providing Indians with clean drinking water and clean toilets can be achieved sooner than 3,500 years. Their last Golden Age was under Mughal rule and they have been in decline since.

It's funny. If you talk to a Pakistani, the last golden age was under the Mughals. If you talk to a Hindu, the last golden age was under Mauryans. If you talk to a Brit, the last golden age was under the British.

To say that India has been on a decline since the Mughals (despite the fact that virtually every socio-economic indicator would prove otherwise) is simply to reveal your biases without stating them.

Tell me. By what definition has India been in decline since the Mughals?

You can't be serious. By that definition, the UK has been in decline since the end of the Empire. And virtually every successor state of an empire is ascendant since they did not exist before.

Also, the Mughals never ruled a territory with the political boundaries of today's India. So by your definition, why not toss in Pakistan and Bangladesh as well? And just as equally, why not apportion some failure to them?

What a useless definition. How about picking something that actually matter to individuals alive today?

India's growth-spurt during the 2000s was mainly due to the high levels of global liquidity and optimism which prevailed prior to the credit crisis. That the government had to do nothing spectacular to achieve this growth lead to the erroneous belief that the economic reforms were "enough" to propel India forward for the forseeable future. The government (and much of the country) got carried away by the BRICS' supposed economic potential.

The economic bottlenecks however, continued to remain. India has a miserable record in infrastructure development - whether it be power, roads or urban infrastructure. Big-ticket reforms are required in every sector, but the political will is lacking across all sections of the polity.

More damaging is the present government's suicidal tendencies. For instance, after an adverse verdict from India's Supreme Court on allotment of licences, the government should have moved swiftly to ensure that existing telecom investments (around $3bn) are not impacted. Instead, the govt is rewriting rules midway endangering the entire telecom sector. Unreasonable (and often unclear) tax rules are being forced upon the country at a time when India needs to be as investor friendly as possible. Flip-flops on major policy (such as FDI in retail) show poor planning and lack of decisive authority on part of the govt. The list of missteps are endless.

The scary part is that the economic crash landing is happening while the Euro is still intact. Once the Euro breaks up, India's economy will be smothered.

They already can. The problem for India isn't protecting the big guys. It's protecting the little guys. The Indian authorities fear what social changes Walmart will bring, by decimating roadside vegetable selling bhaiyas more than what competition Tata or Mahendra will face.

Other than the IT industry, the biggest corporations in INdia just got there because fo crony capitalism. Any half-decent corporate entity generally one, may be two inds of business operations.

The Tatas & Birlas (and now the Ambanis) just got there because they were the only boys with some scale in operations and are well-connected. They just become so completely embedded with the corrupt political class that now they control just about anything an average Indian would need or want. Why would Reliance group want to be involved in oil exploration, refining, cell phones, and groceries? How they treat their employess is a whole another story.

Can you explain why you think they got there because of "crony capitalism"? If your criteria is "they were the only boys with some scale in operations and are well-connected," then, hate to break it to you, but the same is true for most of the businesses in every capitalist country in the world (the means, including connections, are usually inherited). We can all make provocative, unsubstantiated statements.

India has a high fiscal deficit and inflation, because Govt. ran populist policies like MNERGA. If private industries feel that this was wrong well I think it was a good policy since it gave people in the rural areas a chance to earn a decent livelihood. (barring cases of corruption and mismanagement in such policies). Given the fact that people in the Rural areas form the bulk of India, a populist policy is any day better than hot money flowing in from EU and North America (through some a/c in some island), pumping up the stock market and leaving after 15 days having raked up a billion dollars of India's money. That's like neo-East India companies.

Additionally, India did not ask for it to be named as part of BRIC. Foriegn companies/investors made a story and made India a character of that story. Now that the times are rough and India does not want to be a playing ground for foreign investors and their hot flows of money, they're crying fowl. Well, let them. Every nation has the right to take advantage of the good times. (Look at China and it's currency)

As for the serious private domestic and foreign investors, I feel they should understand that India is heading for an election in 2014. Congress has been in power for 2 consective terms and the BJP is not as strong as it was around 1999-2000. The Congress does not want to take a wrong step at this stage. I'm sure they'd want a great economy in 2014 because otherwise their chances of winning will be quite low. So, expect a few measures soon (that will make 2014 look better).

I would like to mention that 300 million people in India are now "part of middle class". India with an economy that is based on domestic consumption unlike that of China (that is export based economy). Considering this fact, it is hard to imagine that Indian economy with focus on domestic consumption has not been able to pull out people from poverty.
Also, I would like to point out that "Small Band of Invaders" episode you mentioned which I presume that you are pointing to British/East India Company. Britishers did not take over India on a whole but won over different states that had different rulers at that time.
Also, I believe that India has done a great job by being the Largest Democracy in the world while many of its neighbouring countries have seen military coups such as Pakistan and Nepal. Democracy ensures participation all citizens of India irrespective of class or cast.
Whilst there are many instances when India had claimed its place in global arena such as India US Civil Nuclear Deal - 123 agreement, winning '71 war liberating Bangladesh. All in all list & time frame of India’s global dominance is too long. And certainly not limited to Mughal period, during which Great Aurangzeb King apparently imprisoned his own father, forget about claiming place in global arena.
I appreciate that we live in a Imperfect world and India too has its share of shortcomings. But I strongly believe that we should not paint figments of our imagination only in White & Black. There is a balanced & neutral perspective to look at things as well.

The average rate of return on equity in the corporate sector is well over 20%_Down compared to prev but still pretty good.
Ask any CFO of top cos and he will surely say a 1/2% or 1% cut in interest rate will make no diff.
Prob of hi rates is acute in ssi.was so even before RBI raised.
Let's not bark up the wrong tree- there r devastating bop issues apart from the massive unprecedented corrup- here all parties r the same.
We need sustainable growth paradigms- too much to expect from the crooks in power in Delhi and practically all states.they won't be able to even get s'where near catching the idea.

India's current travails have stemmed from their poorly thought through efforts to fight inflation. India's growth rate slumped down to little over 6% in 2007 when the interest rates rose to double digits. With the first signs of moderation the previous RBI governor quickly slashed the interest rates and the growth rate returned.

Inflation returned again in 2010, this time largely because of a resurgent internal demand for food grains, edible oils, fruits and vegetables. The government failed to nip this in the bud; it could have flooded the market with foodgrains which are stored by millions of tons in its warehouses. Instead, the combination of an old school finance minister (Pranab Mukherjee who took over from the savvy Chidambaram) and the RBI governeor went about stubbornly raising rates without fully understanding that this would stop the growth story.

The country needs to reduce interest rates to keep the investments flowing.

Democracy? true... but with an immature electorate susceptible to casteist, and identity vote bank politics, Indian governments will remain myopic - losing sight of the immediate and future needs for the 'greater good' - which includes pea-brained, half-thought-out measures like reservation for depressed communities in jobs and higher education, without improvements in primary and secondary education - Thus ensuring that the depressed communities stay depressed, and the 'creamy layer' gets all the benefits. And the latest diktat of forcing private schools to take up the education of the poor is nothing but an abdication of duty.

The much derided "trickle down effect" cannot work until the government ceases stalling all industrial initiatives. India's brand of socialism has failed spectacularly. Tight regulation of industrial sectors the Pvt. sector can enter like power (till recently), defense etc. which have witnessed a lot of government apathy and incompetence have stagnated, leaving the 'Aam Aadmi' without any recourse. Thus 60+ yrs, and many million crores later, India remains an agrarian economy. If this is not a sign of failure of Indian industry, I don't know what is.

Loan waivers to farmers have proven highly effective in garnering votes, with little effort from the government. Not only does this 'dole' reduce agricultural productivity, it also cheats India out of what could have been a massive industrial workforce (with proper training ofc).

If this trend (population growth - urbanization - industrial stagnation) continues, India's youth unemployment will jump sky high... a sure fire way to generate crime and social unrest. The demographic dividend India was confident about reaping may be blighted beyond recovery unless path-breaking reforms, just as bold as the economic liberalization of '91, are implemented urgently.