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Concern For Lily

Hi

My little black and tan baby "Lily" who is now 3 1/2 is giving me cause for
concern ,yesterday morning as I gave them all breakfast and she just as she settled
down to start she let out four little yelps in succession and backed away
from her bowl and straight away I start to fear the worst .Very occasionally on
walks when she is ambling along with the other three she will yelp and jump as
though somebody has jabbed a needle in her bum but this has occurred no more than
half a dozon times over the last two/three months but the episode this morning
was by far the worst .My wife Dawn is home all the time so she is keeping a
careful watch over her her as she does with all of them .
Any thoughts please .?

I agree with Kate, maybe disks or her back. I am lucky that my vet is also an orthopaedic surgeon. When Ebony had her disk problems he knew straight away by looking at her and doing some simple tests, but we still had an MRI.

Could be a disc issue, two of mine have had this on and off, maybe have a word with your vet, even just a phone call for advice may put your mind at ease.

I had a few issues with DJ recently yelping when picked up or if any of the other dogs sat to near(or on!) him. I just called my vet and explained, he gave me a small dose of mild painkiller, told me to keep a close eye on him and bring him in if it got worse, he was right as rain in a few days and the vet thinks it's discs.

And thank you for your replies . Its now 24 hours since the little pain episode and having watched Lily who also sleeps alongside my bed in her crate, she has just been Lily ,nothing unusual at all and she had her normal wrestle and tug of war with the other three last night as they all always do plus charging up and down the stairs and jumping on and off the bed like she always does . I dont think its a disc problem as Rosie had that which was confirmed by MRI with Martin D and Lily's normal mad behaviour is nothing like when Rosie had her disc problem ,with Rosie it was obvious as she wouldn't jump or climb stairs and overall was very subdued .Lily is neither like Daisy who has confirmed SM and has frequent bouts of air scratching but no pain nor any other SM symptoms ,but what Lily does do a lot is , if I can describe it as "rummaging in her undercarriage" which I control with just a squirt of Dermcaton but there is no pain involved just nosing and licking down there .I also thoroughly inspected her last night while grooming her and no lumps ,bumps or show of any pain or discomfort at all .

I have phoned my Vets and as its a large practice asked who is on today and Mr Marsden one of the partners is there this afternoon so we are seeing him at 2.55 pm,so fingers crossed we get it sorted and its something simple .

Brian, With all due respect,I think if you have seen these frankly very disturbing recurring bouts of yelps on walks and then again, in this instance at feeding, you really need to look into a potential cause as it isn't happening for no reason–you probably do need an x-ray, and if that doesn't show anything (disk problems, hip dysplasia etc), an MRI. This just is not normal behavior. For what it is worth, I do have a dog with SM who constantly tries to scratch primarily her stomach and belly area and she also has discomfort around her tail. She is also a paw licker. I think different dogs displace their discomfort in different ways and licking paws can be comforting, just as this kind of behavior is often comforting for cats that are in discomfort.

It is also worth remembering that Dr. Marino has said before that he believes fewer than half of the dogs he sees with SM scratch at all. Those that do scratch are doing so because of discomfort and some pain– and most neurologists, with a very few exceptions, do not view scratching as a benign, pain-free behavior. And I do think it is very difficult for any of us with a dog that is not reaching the point where it shows very obvious signs of pain–like yelping in discomfort or shying away from touch–to say that we have a dog that is not experiencing pain from this condition. Many people live with chronic pain and perhaps the only outward sign you would see is discomfort in walking or in movement–not dissimilar to what many of our dogs do with SM. That doesn't mean there isn't considerable underlying pain. That's why there is a project at the moment to try to find better ways of assessing pain in dogs with this condition. You are seeing signs of a dog that has reached a point where the internal effects cause enough discomfort (and what is the borderline between discomfort and pain?). I have seen my most affected dog be so extraordinarily stoic when he is obviously in deep pain–as he has twice with a ruptured anal gland–that I no longer think we have any right to make assumptions about what they are feeling, but must take seriously any outward expression as a sign that the discomfort/pain is great enough that they have to react in some way. Of course there are much greater extremities of obvious pain, and those are the dogs that are especially tragic–because you know if most dogs are fairly good at tolerating high levels of pain, such dogs must be in true misery.

That is why I just do not think you can take any outward sign of discomfort or pain as a minor worry, unfortunately especially in this breed where syringomyelia is so widespread. I think you are right to go for a vet appointment, but please do take this very seriously–I have to say I find this description below, entirely separately from what you just saw around her food, just really alarming (not least because it has been recurring half a dozen times–which is a LOT! My most affected dog Leo, who has been on medication for years, has never shown this much pain, ever, on walks) and I would get Lily in immediately to a vet and probably a neurologist on the basis of these signs alone. If a child had been doing this, would anyone ignore it or dismiss it as just an oddity? hasn't Lily had recurring issues like this over the years, as well? I thought it was suggested that she should have an MRI a quite a while back due to other things you have seen over time? or maybe I am confusing that with one of your other girls.

Very occasionally on
walks when she is ambling along with the other three she will yelp and jump as
though somebody has jabbed a needle in her bum but this has occurred no more than
half a dozon times over the last two/three months

I am on medication everyday for spinal pain, since I had an accident at the end of last year it is a lot worse and most days the medication doesn't work, but most people don't know as I seem fine, except to my husband who will know when I am in pain.

Dj was jumping up on chairs, climbing stairs etc, when I rang the vet that time, because he was yelping for some reason when touched.

Also every dog is different, DJ hides if he has a something wrong with him or is in pain, Gus will just go quiet, Pippin will act normally even if he has a lot of pain (this we found out when he had an anal gland abscess that ruptured before we knew it was bothering him!)

I am sure your vet will be able to put your mind at rest about Lily, let's know how you get on.

Yes good point on patellas -- though probably a bit less likely, if it didn't show up before 1 and isn't causing signs like limping, but you never know and all that should be checked.

SM pain often comes and goes (it is generally the more severe cases that have constant discomfort/pain). One day Leo cannot stand to be touched on his sides - yet even then he will run around like mad and up and down sofas. The next or even a few hours later, the pain on his side may be totally gone. So you just cannot make assumptions on those patterns of behaviour -- every single dog is different with symptoms with SM though some are more common than others. If anything pain that comes and goes in my experience is MORE likely to be CM/SM rather than less, as disk pain tends to be pretty consistent. Lucy had disk problems for a while and she was quite affected every day til she had painkillers/crate rest to address it.