ETA: Do I hate Japanese today? Absolutely not. But when it comes to history, maybe we shouldn't leave out important facts? There will always be innocent people killed in war; this is a sad byproduct of war. I just wish people wouldn't try to make America sound so evil.

I'm sure hardly anyone hates Japanese people now, time moves on and people move on, new generations come along as well. Japan has moved on as well. But now that I say that we'll probably get some preaching in the next season about how Japan has moved on and isn't that great (just like there was on Vietnam) lol.

Actually the thing that probably annoys me most about American reality shows is how they state the very obvious so much (about the game, or social/political things) as if most of the audience are idiots.

I'm not sure many people try and make America sound evil either, not more than try and make Britain sound evil. And really facts in American history books haven't exactly been known for always being prevalent anyway. But you hope some people can at least think for themselves, particularly in this internet age where information is more easily available and outside of easy government control.

actually, no. The Japan leg on TAR 20 was the 3rd one to mentioned about the war. The 1st one was on season 10 when they'd visited the infamous Hanoi Hilton in which it isn't a hotel, it's a prison for American POWs during the Vietnam War and the 2nd one was on All Star edition when they'd visited to Auschwitz Concentration Camp in Poland and paid respect to the victims of the Holocaust during World War 2.

I'm sure hardly anyone hates Japanese people now, time moves on and people move on, new generations come along as well. Japan has moved on as well.

This is NOT true in East Asia. Browse fora and you'll see Chinese people, Korean people and Japanese people hate each other online. Sometimes it looks funny to see them attacking each other.

I appreciate this thread because it helps ventilate the WWII issue and people from different nations can exchange ideas, which would narrow the gap between our opinions. Here I'm gonna say what Chinese people, as far as I know, think of Japan in terms of WWII history.

In China I know there are some (more than a few) young cynics who hate Japan with no reason other than WWII. Most of them, who're called "the angry young men" (which is a derogative term) in Chinese, from my observation, don't really think over the issue deeply; they're just going with the flow, like what many young people do with fashion and famous brands. It's not cerebral.

But there is something that does annoy Chinese (maybe Korean people as well) a lot. In our eyes Japan has been holding an ambiguous attitude towards WWII; sometimes Japan does apologize, but sometimes it doesn't seem so genuine. We're worried about the rising of the ethics of militarism in Japan; we're just expecting Japan to treat the history honestly and not to do something like distorting the truth in history textbooks. Many Chinese people won't hate Japan at all if Japan treats the history just as what Germany did with it.

I don't know what other Chinese think about Atom Bomb. Personally my attitude is this: I feel sorry for what Japanese suffered from during that bomb, but it was not America's crime. Please believe that Japan in the militarism ethos had wreaked the same (maybe even more) serious havoc in China, Korea and other Asian nations.

My favourite leg in Japan would have to be TAR12's by a LONG way! That is one of my favourite legs of all time! I can't comment on how well it showcases the country, as I'm not Japanese, but in terms of an episode of TAR, that leg was beyond flawless!

TAR9 and TAR15 had above average legs in Japan as well. I wasn't too fond of TAR18's or TAR20's Japan legs, although I did love visiting the Hiroshima memorial for the bomb.

Logged

~I've got a hundred million reasons to walk awayBut baby, I just need one good one to stay~ ♥

This is NOT true in East Asia. Browse fora and you'll see Chinese people, Korean people and Japanese people hate each other online. Sometimes it looks funny to see them attacking each other.

Well, not only Chinese, Koreans and Japanese people hating each other online about the war issue, the Filipinos as well. Actually, it's a different story though when both China and Philippines are making hate to each other through online when recently the Chinese navies had "invaded illegally" to a Philippine-claimed small island of Scarborough Shoal or also known as Panatag Shoal in my country. And by tomorrow, the Filipino activists will march toward to the Chinese embassy to make a protest about this issue, and it is not related to the horrors of World War 2. And if you could take a look on China right now, that country are a totalitarian and communist state and unlike before, their armed forces are becoming stronger and numerous and their war technology is somewhat modern. And that should be concern about the Asian countries right now like Japan, Korea, Vietnam, Philippines, etc.World War 3 anyone?!

I'm sure hardly anyone hates Japanese people now, time moves on and people move on, new generations come along as well. Japan has moved on as well.

This is NOT true in East Asia. Browse fora and you'll see Chinese people, Korean people and Japanese people hate each other online. Sometimes it looks funny to see them attacking each other.

I appreciate this thread because it helps ventilate the WWII issue and people from different nations can exchange ideas, which would narrow the gap between our opinions. Here I'm gonna say what Chinese people, as far as I know, think of Japan in terms of WWII history.

Thanks for the reply, SuperTux.

The atrocities committed by the Japanese military in the earlier half of the 20th century no doubt gave rise to the animosity felt by Chinese and Koreans even to this day. I have heard that text books in South Korea even in recent years discussed the Japanese occupation (1910-) and the events up to the end of WWII in a rather strong tone (against Japan), which are most likely perpetuating those views. Needless to say, this is not a proud era in Japanese history.

This is why it's so important we take time to talk about it and to reflect upon historical events ( even Phil retweeted my tweet about this thread! ). If we take the lessons from history and spend time understanding why things happened from both angles, as bcp19 suggested, we can all become better citizens of the world -- and hopefully prevent WW3.

Why did those events happen?

Why did they *have* to happen?

And perhaps most importantly, imagine if we were in the political hot seat at the time. What would we have done differently? Or similarly?

While we are at it... What would the world look like today if WWII didn't happen? And can we use any part of that imagination to prevent future conflict at such a massive scale?

« Last Edit: May 10, 2012, 12:47:06 AM by kenchan »

Logged

「超たのしい～！♪」-Tyler McNiven riding a fold-up bike in the night streets of Tokyo, TAR9

My favourite leg in Japan would have to be TAR12's by a LONG way! That is one of my favourite legs of all time! I can't comment on how well it showcases the country, as I'm not Japanese, but in terms of an episode of TAR, that leg was beyond flawless!

TAR9 and TAR15 had above average legs in Japan as well. I wasn't too fond of TAR18's or TAR20's Japan legs, although I did love visiting the Hiroshima memorial for the bomb.

TAR12's Osaka leg was pretty good! I especially liked the pit stop, Japan's shortest mountain (in contrast to the pitstop for TAR9 at Lake Yamanaka - in front of Japan's tallest peak). That was a great find! I mentioned that to my friends from Osaka, and they all snicker when they hear "Tempo-zan Ko-en". ("Oh yeah, *that* place...")

I also liked how both TAR9 and TAR12 featured racers who had Japanese communication skills. Tyler's Japanese was of course full of slang (thanks to his girlfriend at the time) which made it even more fun for us Japanese natives to hear! (e.g. When he was riding the fold-up bike between Shinjuku and Shibuya, he kept on saying "cho-tanoshii!" = "this rocks!") Christina's Japanese was more or less formal, but she too did a great job talking with the locals, asking for directions, etc., which definitely helped in their 1st place finish in that leg.

TAR15 featuring Flight Time and Big Easy in the Shibuya Scramble was just hilarious. I could imagine myself witnessing that scene, where those two guys were just TOWERING over everyone in the area.

(Oh! And TAR15 featured perhaps the one and only live public protest caught on tape by the TAR camera crew- it was a protest about an mis-statement made during an NHK documentary that almost jeopardized Japan-Taiwan relations. The fact that the protest made airtime on American TV has to be pretty significant. I did some research on that protest - let me know if any of you want more info.)

« Last Edit: May 09, 2012, 11:40:00 PM by kenchan »

Logged

「超たのしい～！♪」-Tyler McNiven riding a fold-up bike in the night streets of Tokyo, TAR9

This is NOT true in East Asia. Browse fora and you'll see Chinese people, Korean people and Japanese people hate each other online. Sometimes it looks funny to see them attacking each other.

Well, not only Chinese, Koreans and Japanese people hating each other online about the war issue, the Filipinos as well. Actually, it's a different story though when both China and Philippines are making hate to each other through online when recently the Chinese navies had "invaded illegally" to a Philippine-claimed small island of Scarborough Shoal or also known as Panatag Shoal in my country. And by tomorrow, the Filipino activists will march toward to the Chinese embassy to make a protest about this issue, and it is not related to the horrors of World War 2. And if you could take a look on China right now, that country are a totalitarian and communist state and unlike before, their armed forces are becoming stronger and numerous and their war technology is somewhat modern. And that should be concern about the Asian countries right now like Japan, Korea, Vietnam, Philippines, etc.World War 3 anyone?!

The following is our perspective in China: that island (Huangyan island in Chinese, or Scarborugh Shoal in English) belongs to China according to the history. China found this island in 1279. Guo Shoujing made some measurement experiments there. No treaty so far claims that that island belongs to Philippine. Actually the map produced by Philippine in 1980's excluded Huangyan island from Philippine's territory.

I laughed when seeing you mentioned that Chinese forces are becoming "stronger" and war technology is modern. Now netizens here in China are blaming Chinese Army for being cowards. You may see a lot of posts like "Philippine is bullying us. Why don't we fight back? Chinese government and the army are cowards. They suck. We're in another Qing Dynasty blablabla..." Since China has officially proclaimed that it opposes hegemonism in all forms, I don't think China will break the promise unless Philippine doesn't do some control over the circumstances.

China is not totalitarian and, to some extent, not that communist now. Sometimes we joke that Chinese-style commusism=economic capitalism+politically ambiguous socialism. I think presently the policies made by Hu Jintao and Wen Jiabao are a little bit leaning towards the right-wing compared with the former leaders. The power of the extreme left-wing led by Bo Xilai recently collapsed in the political conflict. (See also Wang Lijun's treason case)

I'm sure hardly anyone hates Japanese people now, time moves on and people move on, new generations come along as well. Japan has moved on as well.

This is NOT true in East Asia. Browse fora and you'll see Chinese people, Korean people and Japanese people hate each other online. Sometimes it looks funny to see them attacking each other.

I appreciate this thread because it helps ventilate the WWII issue and people from different nations can exchange ideas, which would narrow the gap between our opinions. Here I'm gonna say what Chinese people, as far as I know, think of Japan in terms of WWII history.

Thanks for the reply, SuperTux.

The atrocities committed by the Japanese military in the earlier half of the 20th century no doubt gave rise to the animosity felt by Chinese and Koreans even to this day. I have heard that text books in South Korea even in recent years discussed the Japanese occupation (1910-) and the events up to the end of WWII in a rather strong tone (against Japan), which are most likely perpetuating those views. Needless to say, this is not a proud era in Japanese history.

This is why it's so important we take time to talk about it and to reflect upon historical events ( even Phil retweeted my tweet about this thread! ). If we take the lessons from history and spend time understanding why things happened from both angles, as bcp19 suggested, we can all become better citizens of the world -- and hopefully prevent WW3.

Why did those events happen?

Why did they *have* to happen?

And perhaps most importantly, imagine if we were in the political hot seat at the time. What would we have done differently? Or similarly?

While we are at it... What would the world look like today if WWII didn't happen? And can we use any part of that imagination to prevent future conflict at such a massive scale?

You can be at ease in the case of Chinese history textbook because in my memory when we were taught about this historical events the textbook was not describing it in a strong tone. It was quite plain; we were shown some photos, the number of deaths and the discussion over this event (something like "this event wreaked great havoc in China and blablabla" ). It wasn't described differently from other events such as French Revolution in terms of the tone.

I agree that it's important to take time to range over it to reflect upon historical events because no history textbook can get rid of underlying prejudice. It'd be great if we read ideas from different nations. This would help us rebuild the real scenarios in that era.

For example, I'd never thought that the US "dropped the bomb to that 2 cities as a result to the payback of the Pearl Harbor attack and being an alliance to the Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy during the war" before I read this thread. If this description occurs in the textbook, I'd think it is somewhat narrow-minded, though I can't remember anything discussing the reason why the US did so in our textbook. IMHO by that time the US had got the case of Pearl Harbor over. They threw those 2 bombs for boosting Japan's capitulation, or maybe for letting Japan experience the havoc other Asian people had experienced.

kenchan...........this is an intersting thread. But I have a question. The following quote from your first post is extremely ambigious to me. Maybe I am just simple minded, but would you explain what you mean by it. I have been to both Hiroshima and Nagasaki......and personally I appreciated the memorial in Nagasaki more....

kenchan...........this is an intersting thread. But I have a question. The following quote from your first post is extremely ambigious to me. Maybe I am just simple minded, but would you explain what you mean by it. I have been to both Hiroshima and Nagasaki......and personally I appreciated the memorial in Nagasaki more....

Thanks - and sure, I can explain, but which part?

Logged

「超たのしい～！♪」-Tyler McNiven riding a fold-up bike in the night streets of Tokyo, TAR9

I'm sure hardly anyone hates Japanese people now, time moves on and people move on, new generations come along as well. Japan has moved on as well.

This is NOT true in East Asia. Browse fora and you'll see Chinese people, Korean people and Japanese people hate each other online. Sometimes it looks funny to see them attacking each other.

I appreciate this thread because it helps ventilate the WWII issue and people from different nations can exchange ideas, which would narrow the gap between our opinions. Here I'm gonna say what Chinese people, as far as I know, think of Japan in terms of WWII history.

Thanks for the reply, SuperTux.

The atrocities committed by the Japanese military in the earlier half of the 20th century no doubt gave rise to the animosity felt by Chinese and Koreans even to this day. I have heard that text books in South Korea even in recent years discussed the Japanese occupation (1910-) and the events up to the end of WWII in a rather strong tone (against Japan), which are most likely perpetuating those views. Needless to say, this is not a proud era in Japanese history.

This is why it's so important we take time to talk about it and to reflect upon historical events ( even Phil retweeted my tweet about this thread! ). If we take the lessons from history and spend time understanding why things happened from both angles, as bcp19 suggested, we can all become better citizens of the world -- and hopefully prevent WW3.

Why did those events happen?

Why did they *have* to happen?

And perhaps most importantly, imagine if we were in the political hot seat at the time. What would we have done differently? Or similarly?

While we are at it... What would the world look like today if WWII didn't happen? And can we use any part of that imagination to prevent future conflict at such a massive scale?

I always thought, what could've been a better alternative for the atomic bombings?If it wasn't for those bombings, Japan will never surrender, the war could last longer and could cost more lives.

It's a place where a symbol of the human tragedy of war is preserved to this day.

The one in Nagasaki (http://g.co/maps/v9f9q) embodies peace and hope, while the one in Hiroshima embodies the (dare I say this) terror of war in its raw form. They seem to convey the same hope for peace but from opposite angles, which is also interesting. Thanks for bringing this up.

Logged

「超たのしい～！♪」-Tyler McNiven riding a fold-up bike in the night streets of Tokyo, TAR9

A Japanese book titled 「おじいちゃん、戦争のこと教えて」 (http://amzn.to/jNaHiA) or "Grandpa, Tell Me About the War" (that's my translation of the Japanese title), in which Asahi Breweries Board Member Takanori Nakajo (who was a Japanese Army cadet in training at the time of surrender but never went to battle) receives a letter from his granddaughter asking for help with her history project on WWII, while attending the Masters School in New York. He then painstakingly AND rather objectively recalls the events before, during, and after the war, from several view points, and answers his granddaughters 16 or so questions. The result is what he published. This book filled in a lot of blanks for me and completely changed my view of the war. I wish this book would get translated to other languages.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_bomb_debate -- I think this Wikipedia article not only sheds light on various angles regarding the use of the a-bomb in Japan, it also makes us think about more recent military events. Were they necessary?

I think this is a good time for a...

« Last Edit: May 10, 2012, 01:56:26 AM by kenchan »

Logged

「超たのしい～！♪」-Tyler McNiven riding a fold-up bike in the night streets of Tokyo, TAR9

How long did it take from Cochin to Hiroshima? What route did they take? Did they fly via Incheon? (I ask because getting from India to Japan isn't as simple as it seems. There used to be a Delhi--Narita flight on JAL, but no more)

That 700 series Shinkansen "Nozomi" - how cool was that?

Why in the world did Phil and crew decide to hide in the bushes near the Osaka-jo castle?

Who were those rocker greeters?

Logged

「超たのしい～！♪」-Tyler McNiven riding a fold-up bike in the night streets of Tokyo, TAR9

I'm sure hardly anyone hates Japanese people now, time moves on and people move on, new generations come along as well. Japan has moved on as well.

This is NOT true in East Asia. Browse fora and you'll see Chinese people, Korean people and Japanese people hate each other online. Sometimes it looks funny to see them attacking each other.

I appreciate this thread because it helps ventilate the WWII issue and people from different nations can exchange ideas, which would narrow the gap between our opinions. Here I'm gonna say what Chinese people, as far as I know, think of Japan in terms of WWII history.

Thanks for the reply, SuperTux.

The atrocities committed by the Japanese military in the earlier half of the 20th century no doubt gave rise to the animosity felt by Chinese and Koreans even to this day. I have heard that text books in South Korea even in recent years discussed the Japanese occupation (1910-) and the events up to the end of WWII in a rather strong tone (against Japan), which are most likely perpetuating those views. Needless to say, this is not a proud era in Japanese history.

This is why it's so important we take time to talk about it and to reflect upon historical events ( even Phil retweeted my tweet about this thread! ). If we take the lessons from history and spend time understanding why things happened from both angles, as bcp19 suggested, we can all become better citizens of the world -- and hopefully prevent WW3.

Why did those events happen?

Why did they *have* to happen?

And perhaps most importantly, imagine if we were in the political hot seat at the time. What would we have done differently? Or similarly?

While we are at it... What would the world look like today if WWII didn't happen? And can we use any part of that imagination to prevent future conflict at such a massive scale?

I always thought, what could've been a better alternative for the atomic bombings?If it wasn't for those bombings, Japan will never surrender, the war could last longer and could cost more lives.