Welcome to the Piano World Piano ForumsOver 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers
(it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Wow! Thanks for doing the research! Ok.....you've talked me into it.....I'll go to 3a next. But, I am going to work through it quickly! Same for 3b! The catalog has so many different books. While going through book 1, I had the lesson book, technique, and performance books. Which ones do you use? After finishing book one, my teacher assigned pieces from book 3. Then she moved to book 4. I thought we were moving too fast...eventually I switched teachers...due to my work schedule. My new teacher has me working on book my current book (#2)

I'm confused... Book 1 Lesson, Technique and Performance? Is that the regular PA? I thought you were in (or finishing) Adult PA?

Anyway, I'm a fan of having those three books as the core of the method, plus some source for theory if you don't have theory knowledge already. How's your music theory? I think theory is really helpful for musicians, but there are lots of sources besides the PA Theory books.

AIUI the other books outside of those four (Technique, Lesson, Performance, Theory) are for supplementation for various reasons: for fun, or for performance, or for solidifying skills if needed by spending more time at a given level. Some teachers use a supplemental book of pieces of the student's choice from the Faber family of books instead of Performance.

I guess I left out some info! I initially started out with Piano Adventures for Older Beginners book 1. After completion (~9 months ago) I switched to the Adult All in One book 2. RE my theory.....(except for roughly 3 weeks of piano lessons as a kid) I'm a (42 year old) beginner!

Thank you Pianostudent! I will be working on rhythm again today and hopefully a few more pages in.

I know you guys are back and forth on what comes next after the adult books, so I have a question... Does it not say on the very last page, the inside of the back cover? The accerlated tells you what books accompany and what to move on to. Just curious if maybe it has the same "guide" there.

Regarding rhythm, can you keep rhythm if you're not also trying to play the piano? For example, walking at a steady rate, large arm circles (count once for each circle, or once at the top and once at the bottom), clapping, tapping your foot, tapping on the fallboard, tapping or clapping to music on the radio? Can you keep time (still not playing) with straight quarters, so the problem only arises when mixing in half and whole notes? Or are straight quarters a challenge too?

I always thinks it helps to identify just where a problem is arising. It might just be certain types of rhythm, or rhythm when combined with playing music of a certain complexity, etc. For example, can you keep rhythm when playing a single note with one hand, one finger, but are challenged playing, say, two hands or changing notes?

Michael Taylor, that definitely sounds weird of your first teacher to switch straight from Accelerated for Older Beginners 1 straight into level 3, and then to hightail it into level 4 without fully absorbing level 3. The normal follow-on to Accelerated 1 (if not Accelerated 2) would be regular PA 2. That's where a rock-solid grasp of I, IV, V chords happens so you can play them in your sleep and react to them at sight. That way the extra challenges of the pieces in level 3 can be faced, but most of the chords (that are being combined in new ways, and more sophisticated RH parts) are individually easy.

Pooey that its not in the back. Would a comparison of the accerlated book 2 contents to the adult book 2 help? The accerlated 2 says to go to the regular 3A. So if the contents were similar couldn't it be the same or if more advanced for the adult then be 3B? Just tossing ideas....

I can keep rhythm when walking and tapping. I always lose the beat with music but can keep up with bass instead of drums.. (I have no idea why...) Quarter notes and I don't get along.. It actually seems to be the last one. 4/4 time I will lose it on the last note. This seems to be across the board. I either go way slow or too fast. I can't seem to keep it steady. 3/4 I can follow...

Applying all to the keyboard is an entirely different challege. I feel handicapped. LOL I have to concentrate to have any rhythm with the notes and it doesn't sound fluent at all. I hope this changes with practice?

Thanks for the questions, helps me to watch myself and apply these concepts all day long to other things.

Michael Taylor, if theory interests you, some teachers like Snell for theory for their older students. Of course there are websites too. I learned my fundamentals of theory from Edly's Music Theory For Practical People by Ed Roseman. Then I followed it up with a semester of college music theory, but going back I discover it was already in Edly! (Though in the college class I benefited from doing a lot of harmonic analysis exercises.). I find it enriches my understanding of what I'm playing immensely.

BeccaBb, might it help to break 4/4 down into 2 sets of 2 each: ONE two, Three four. Or even ONE two, One two for each measure.

maduro, congratulations! I think I have Song of India in one of my flute books. It's a pretty piece, if it's the same one. (Well, I'm sure it's pretty even if it's not the same one .)

I just finished learning "Trumpet Concerto Theme" from the PA Adult Book 1 so tomorrow I start "The Entertainer". I just started a few days ago but my previous musical training from other instruments is helping me more than I expected and I've managed to get over three hours of practice time a day for the last few days.

Because I'm moving through this book so quickly, I stopped by the music store yesterday and bought two books for some supplementary practice. I bought the level 2A and 2B performance books (from the standard Piano Adventures). The level 2A is perfect for where I'm at right now so that should help solidify what I'm learning. They didn't have any of the Chord Time books in stock and the Show Time books looked too simple for where I am at.

I also bought the sheet music to "Imagine" by John Lennon, knowing it's beyond me right now. I figured I could plod through it slowly a little bit here and there when I feel like a break from PA. I got the intro down pretty quickly, but I find the right-hand part to be very difficult just because of the reach. I guess I have small hands. The left-hand part is surprisingly easy which is too bad because that's where I really need the practice.

Welcome aboard Dio! Sounds like you have the piano bug like the rest of us. Sometimes I think of these forums as AA meetings....."hello, my name is Michael and I am a piano-holic." My wife won't let me go to piano shops alone....she is afraid that I will come home with a new piano!

Just for grins, I decided to play Rudolph the Red Nose Reindeer from the Faber BigTime Christmas book. Much to my surprise, I really like it! I will probably work on it for the next couple of days so that I can play it fluently. I'll try to get a recording on YouTube by next weekend.

I will be participating in my second recital tomorrow afternoon.....I'll be playing 3 pieces from the BigTime Christmas book: Hark! The Herald Angels Sing, Carol of the Bells, and Oh Holy Night. Had I know that I would like Rudolph so much, I would have thrown that in there somewhere!

I can't remember if I posted about it anywhere on ABF at the time, but last summer I was at a church-related retreat and for the closing service they asked me to play piano. Prelude a Bach Minuet in G minor, two hymns with melody and chord-root bass line, and postlude a Spindler Sonatina. I was completely elated.

Welcome Dio666! Sounds like you're making great progress. You could try improvising extra stuff for the Imagine LH. For example play the chord tones in succession instead of at the same time, or in blocked style (the bottom note alone, and then the top two notes together), or "Alberti bass": bottom, top, middle, top. Or as an arpeggio: bottom, middle, top, middle. Make up your own patterns. See what it sounds like if you add extra notes: 7th, 9th, 11th, etc.

Congrats on the new song Maduro! I could only wish I could learn a song that fast!

Hiya Dio!

Michael that sounds like lots of fun! I'm working on easy Christmas songs myself but would NOT play them for anyone at this point! LOL

Pianostudent: the 1/2 1/2 breakdown works FABULOUS! I can acutally count and play and not get completely messed up. So I've been doing that with everything and have managed to get another page done because of it. Now I'm applying the rhythm to all the songs I"m trying to learn.

I'm jealous of those of you who are working on Christmas songs. I would like to but I feel like it's a little late to get started since there are less than two weeks until Christmas. I'll wait until next October and buy a Christmas book at a level that suits me then.

So I started working through the songs in the standard PA performance book level 2A and found that it doesn't correlate well with the Adult PA Book 1. I'm most of the way through the Adult book 1, then playing through the 2A performance book I found that the music is simpler but is in a key that hasn't been introduced yet in the Adult book. I guess that just means that the Adult book is giving the student more difficult music after introducing a new concept or key which makes sense I guess. That may explain why there has been so much discussion as to where to go after Adult Book 2. So I bet your idea of going to 3A is a good one, Michael. Even though a lot of it will end up being review.

After Adult Book 2, you should move to 3A of the child series. You can confirm this by downloading the '2011 Complete Catalog and Teacher's Desk Reference'. There is a link to the PDF on the very front page (lower left) of the Piano Adventures website.

Thank you, CharlieFreak. Which page of the catalog are you seeing the specific Adult 2 = regular 2A & 2B?

What makes it confusing is that the topics in Adult 2 include all the topics from 3A and 3B, and include several of the same pieces. And as Dio666 found, the songs in Performance 2A seem easier than the material near the end of Adult 1.

Accelerated 2 looks like a more near fit with 2A and 2B; at least, it doesn't repeat any of the pieces from 3A or 3B.

I remember reading that in the PA forums, PianoStudent88, but I haven't had much luck finding the post. I did find a post that talks about that exact issue you mention - that Adult book 2 touches on topics from 3A and 3B, however the chart on page 4 of the PDF states:

Hmm. The more I research this at the PA forums, it seems that some teachers are moving adult students into level 4 after they complete the adult book 2. Others suggest using 3B as a review before moving to 4.

So now I'm starting to wonder if I misunderstood what I thought I read, and that the above statement from the PDF might be an error?

and began playing mocking bird easy enough piece but I am going to make sure I dont repeat my mistake with the thompson series I am going to transpose these pieces as it the book asks you to do at the end of the piece transposing is a requirement in church music for you have no idea what key a singer will start a song off in. and you dont want to play the song outside their range so it is customary to let them start the song and catch pick them upunless you work out the key ahead of time which isnt always possibleie funerals impromptu soloists walking through the door at the middle of a program

if you ever want to play in a church or back up singersthis is a necessary skill

and the only way to improve it is to use it

for me I use a movable do or numbered system to help me with transposing my skills are rusty though but this is exactly the level to brush up with.

Wow.....are you transposing songs from hymn books while you are playing? That sounds tough! I transpose the pieces in the book, but it takes a little concentration to keep my hands from playing exactly what's written. I usually do ok until I have to move my hand.

Michael,I just checked out your youtube videos and they sound great! I love the Christmas songs. I hope I can handle the Faber Bigtime book by next October because those arrangements sound nice. You had better get Rudolph posted soon because Christmas is almost here.

I'll be starting the Faber Adult Book 2 next week. I just need to clean up the second-to-last song in Book 1, (I can't remember the title), and then learn Carnival of Venice.

Way to go Dio! I bet your excited to be so close to the end of Book 1! Do we get a recital from book one?

Maduro: wow. LOL I am so lost in that post of yours. Transposing is way beyond me at the moment. So how do you like book 2 so far?

Michael Taylor & PianoStudent: So have you decided what book to move to next?

Thanks for the encouragement on the rhythms! I'm still on page 12&13. Exploring seconds and Exploring thirds. I'm applying the rhythm to both and playing both tunes in different c positions as it says. I noticed today that playing the furthest c to my right (I only have 61 keys remember) that I am having issues reaching with my lh, especially my thumb. Is there a trick to this? Do I shift my body over? Roll my hand? I also caught myself slouching today! I need someone to smack me with bamboo or something to stop that! I'm trying to pay attention to it but I get so absorbed in playing that I forget then I get sore. UGH.

For those of you without a teacher, how have you set up your practice each day? Actually and with a teacher!

Right now, I'm using a book for techniques, so I do 6 mini technical exercises. Then I work on my Faber book for about 15 mins or so, then I work on applying my knowledge to 3 Christmas songs that I hope to play on Christmas. I try to do this twice a day because I get fatigued quickly (mostly my horrible posture.) I want to get my scales I work on back in there but I'm so worn out right now I'm having difficulty with it.

BeccaBb, I have the same puzzle about playing the LH high up on the keyboard. I'll try to remember to ask my teacher about it tonight.

I keep trying to get my teacher interested in teaching me from the PA books, but so far she's resistant. And I have enough other music to work on that (shhhhh, don't tell) I haven't been working in them lately. But when I _am_ working in them, I'm working on 3A. From the other music I've been working on I'm probably more like level 5, except that the speed of the PA pieces challenges me, so I'm not as solid on the level 3 and 4 skills as I should be.

For solidarity with this thread, I'd like to finish playing through Adult 1 and tackle Adult 2, too. I got up to The Entertainer on Adult 1 and it seemed distinctly harder than anything that came before. Did anyone else feel that way about The Entertainer?

I have a teacher, and she assigns me 4 technique pages a week, plus 2-4 pieces that I'll be working on at a time. I work on scales, technique, pieces, earplaying, in roughly that order. I'll add sight-reading soon -- I have some of the easier Denes Agay "Classics to Moderns" books on order to use for that. Then at the end sometimes I'll noodle around on things which are usually still far out of my reach (Chopin Preludes, anyone?). At some point I want to add arpeggios with the scales, but first I have to learn how to play multi-octave arpeggios in a relaxed way without hurting my wrist.

The technique and the pieces come from what we work on in lessons. The scales, earplaying, and sight-reading are my own additions.

On posture: Stott Pilates healed me of twenty years of sporadic back pain and taught me how to sit and move with effortless good form for my back. All this in less than 6 months. I highly recommend doing some classes if you have the opportunity. I have no commercial interest, just a very happy customer.

If you really want a recital, Becca, you'll find a link in my signature. There are four songs; three from Faber Adult Book 1 and a Beatles tune from an old EZ Play keyboard book I stole from my sister years ago for use with my guitar, (it just has chord names and the melody, no bass clef). And one of the songs from Book 1 is The Entertainer, PianoStudent. It didn't seem like a huge leap to me, but is was a step up in difficulty. Just be sure and learn the RH and LH parts well separately at first and then work on putting them together. And now that I've played it a hundred times it actually seems quite easy which you will hopefully find encouraging. I think I almost have it memorized at this point. If I didn't have a digital piano with headphones then my wife would have killed me by now.

Hi BeccaBb, as for practice routines this is what I usually do (when I'm more focused and not playing all these fun Christmas tunes!). I have a teacher and we usually follow this progression in the lesson as well (except of course this last month or so that I've been on a scales strike and doing Christmas songs instead!).

- One page from A Dozen A Day (by Edna-Mae Burnam). Sometimes there are 3 exercises sometimes 2. I'm in Book One of this series but I believe there is a preparatory book and I think they go up to book four. I find most of these I can get within the week but then I'll hit one that I struggle with and have to repeat for a couple of lessons. Usually I only do these for 5 or 10 minutes at the start of practice. Sometimes I go back to the beginning and do the whole book for a super warm-up or just to see that hey I'm getting smoother.

- Scales. I start with the scales I already know that I'm specifically learning for my exam. Hands together, 2 octaves. Then I'll do the new scale I'm learning (usually 1 per week). Hands separate, then hands together. About 15 minutes per day on this.

- Chords/Inversions. I'll play these hands together for 1 octave, and hands separate for 2 octaves. About 15 minutes per day on this.

- Sight Reading. I'm working through the Four Star series and currently I'm in book 4. There are very short exercises per day so this only takes a couple of minutes. Lately I've gone back to some of the level 2 and 3 Faber books I've got and used those for sight reading as well. They are more fun to work on and these make me feel I've made great progress in my reading (especially the bass part for the left hand where I really struggle).

- Ear Training. I'm supposed to do a few minutes a day and haven't been. Still at the very early levels trying to play back 5 note patterns within a scale. I've never really done much of this and struggle. If I can get my husband to play these for me I can get through a page of exercises very quickly.

- Repertoire. I'll start with the song that is giving me the most trouble. I'll play it through a few times, then go back to the tough spots and isolate what I need to and slow it way down and try to eliminate errors. Usually the longer the piece the more such spots there are so I'll do several of these in one sitting. Then slow everything down and play through again. I'll repeat this for each song I'm working on. I may spend about 15-20 minutes on each song in this fashion but it depends on where each one is at. If I'm at a point of memorizing anything I add a few minutes of that in as well. Usually only a few measures at a time or a phrase (which makes more sense to me)

- To wrap up practice I like to play through things I already know as it's a nice way to relax and feels good to end sounding somewhat musical, instead of broken up little bits of choppy parts of songs.

I used to get really tired too when I practiced but I believe it had alot to do with tension and bad posture. I really focused on this and still try to at the beginning of each practice. I also found if I make slight movements with my upper body such as moving in towards the keys or away from them slightly it seems to keep me more relaxed in my shoulders. Sometimes I find that I'm almost holding my breath or something strange and I have to stop myself and relax and breath!!

I practice for about 2 hours/day Mon-Fri. On Saturday/Sunday it depends on how much time I have available (when I get done taking random naps throughout the day!) I currently work through 1 chapter of the PA book each time I practice. I will play each piece in a given chapter 2-3 times. Sometimes, I turn back a chapter or 2 to play a few exercises that I struggled with.

I am currently on chapter 7 of the All in One book 2. The following pieces/exercises are in this chapter: Deck the Keys with Dotted Quarters, Kum Ba Yah, Theme from Scheherazade, In My Red Convertible, Dotted Quarter March, Dotted Quarter Arpeggios, and Auld Lang Syne. I will probably work on this chapter for another week or 2.