I managed to snatch a copy away, but I still can't figure out how it is possible for such an obscure band to sell over 100 copies of a tape in less than one day. The collecting madness these days is unbelievable._________________

I managed to snatch a copy away, but I still can't figure out how it is possible for such an obscure band to sell over 100 copies of a tape in less than one day. The collecting madness these days is unbelievable.

Less Copies = More Demand
More Copies = Less Demand

Thanks to short run factories it is almost impossible to take tapes or Vinyls seriously anymore. I can see why a lot of the old timers are going back to CDs.

To be honest, not all copies end up in trading circles. For example, there are small tape/LP pressings like Veneration by CoO that are never on Ebay or almost never on tradelists either, I think I've seen it available once. Why? Because the limitation was actually small enough for the demand at that point. Later their stuff were still limited, but not that much and at that point people started to buy multiple copies and selling them on Ebay, shitty thing, but it's not a reason for a band or a label to press more copies if there's no actual need. It's a bit useless to attack the bands/labels, when you see selling/trading-section in this board and some posters Ebaying the extra copies they bought just after they receive them. Those fuckers are the ones to blame, not the people behind the actual release.

To be honest, not all copies end up in trading circles. For example, there are small tape/LP pressings like Veneration by CoO that are never on Ebay or almost never on tradelists either, I think I've seen it available once. Why? Because the limitation was actually small enough for the demand at that point. Later their stuff were still limited, but not that much and at that point people started to buy multiple copies and selling them on Ebay, shitty thing, but it's not a reason for a band or a label to press more copies if there's no actual need. It's a bit useless to attack the bands/labels, when you see selling/trading-section in this board and some posters Ebaying the extra copies they bought just after they receive them. Those fuckers are the ones to blame, not the people behind the actual release.

BIC! Also, I only saw 91 in the webstore last night, so 1/3 of the press is probably still out there. For example I'll be getting a stack of copies myself. I can't imagine that I'm the only one getting any.

To be honest, not all copies end up in trading circles. For example, there are small tape/LP pressings like Veneration by CoO that are never on Ebay or almost never on tradelists either, I think I've seen it available once. Why? Because the limitation was actually small enough for the demand at that point. Later their stuff were still limited, but not that much and at that point people started to buy multiple copies and selling them on Ebay, shitty thing, but it's not a reason for a band or a label to press more copies if there's no actual need. It's a bit useless to attack the bands/labels, when you see selling/trading-section in this board and some posters Ebaying the extra copies they bought just after they receive them. Those fuckers are the ones to blame, not the people behind the actual release.

BIC! Also, I only saw 91 in the webstore last night, so 1/3 of the press is probably still out there. For example I'll be getting a stack of copies myself. I can't imagine that I'm the only one getting any.

There are things the people behind the releases can do to prevent that shit. Personally I try and talk people out of ordering multiple copies of something, of course most of the stuff in my distro isn't flipped to ebay.

Of course you gotta look at it like this,

if you are having to

1. Write people's names in the copies to prevent them from going to ebay

2. Having people bitch cause they can't get something because it sold out overnight

3. Be in constant contact to know who has what, keeping records, blacklisting people who turn around and ebay something

4. Having to tell people to buy formats like CDs which you know there not going to give a fuck about and won't want because the analog version (despite it sounding either the same or worse because while digital has advanced to keep up with modern recording technology Analog has not) is what they really want.

5. Having to tell the very people who want to support your label by sending you money so you can put out more stuff to "shove their modern black metal scene up their ass" as I think the guy from Ancient Records told me to fuck off and die

At that point you should be asking yourself if you should just make more copies of something/hold out and make one full length instead of a bunch of random Eps with one track on them rather then deal with all that. Plus there are a bunch of people out there that see releases like this and can't take the bands/labels seriously regardless of how good the music actually is on it. Real Releases > Kvlt Peices anyday.

To be honest, not all copies end up in trading circles. For example, there are small tape/LP pressings like Veneration by CoO that are never on Ebay or almost never on tradelists either, I think I've seen it available once. Why? Because the limitation was actually small enough for the demand at that point. Later their stuff were still limited, but not that much and at that point people started to buy multiple copies and selling them on Ebay, shitty thing, but it's not a reason for a band or a label to press more copies if there's no actual need. It's a bit useless to attack the bands/labels, when you see selling/trading-section in this board and some posters Ebaying the extra copies they bought just after they receive them. Those fuckers are the ones to blame, not the people behind the actual release.

BIC! Also, I only saw 91 in the webstore last night, so 1/3 of the press is probably still out there. For example I'll be getting a stack of copies myself. I can't imagine that I'm the only one getting any.

There are things the people behind the releases can do to prevent that shit. Personally I try and talk people out of ordering multiple copies of something, of course most of the stuff in my distro isn't flipped to ebay.

Of course you gotta look at it like this,

if you are having to

1. Write people's names in the copies to prevent them from going to ebay

2. Having people bitch cause they can't get something because it sold out overnight

3. Be in constant contact to know who has what, keeping records, blacklisting people who turn around and ebay something

4. Having to tell people to buy formats like CDs which you know there not going to give a fuck about and won't want because the analog version (despite it sounding either the same or worse because while digital has advanced to keep up with modern recording technology Analog has not) is what they really want.

5. Having to tell the very people who want to support your label by sending you money so you can put out more stuff to "shove their modern black metal scene up their ass" as I think the guy from Ancient Records told me to fuck off and die

At that point you should be asking yourself if you should just make more copies of something/hold out and make one full length instead of a bunch of random Eps with one track on them rather then deal with all that. Plus there are a bunch of people out there that see releases like this and can't take the bands/labels seriously regardless of how good the music actually is on it. Real Releases > Kvlt Peices anyday.

I thought the Idea of underground releases was to distribute the music so bands could get on bigger labels and eventually earn money from their releases while still proving whatever point they want to prove?

I agree 100%, but I fault the collector cunts. If I can't get something I want to hear, then fuck it. I'm not going to eBay for it. The whole "kvlt" thing can take a flying fuck. The music IS what matters, but I'm not going to go broke trying to get it._________________"If Detroit is not the asshole of the world, it is within farting distance."

I don't think the old ideas of what releases are done for what purpose stand anymore. It wasn't too long ago when someone here said bands that aren't trying to improve or gain more following (or the likes) were stupid or something like that. Perhaps that has been true at some point in some place far far away but I'm positive it's not at this day and age.

1. Write people's names in the copies to prevent them from going to ebay

Works, but not completely, I have few releases from trades with name stained away.

Vega360 wrote:

3. Be in constant contact to know who has what, keeping records, blacklisting people who turn around and ebay something

Well, if I'd have an active distro, I'd blacklist few from this board right away.

Vega360 wrote:

At that point you should be asking yourself if you should just make more copies of something/hold out and make one full length instead of a bunch of random Eps with one track on them rather then deal with all that. Plus there are a bunch of people out there that see releases like this and can't take the bands/labels seriously regardless of how good the music actually is on it. Real Releases > Kvlt Peices anyday.

Some material can be too different to be included on the full-lenght, but works great on Ep or split.

Vega360 wrote:

I thought the Idea of underground releases was to distribute the music so bands could get on bigger labels and eventually earn money from their releases while still proving whatever point they want to prove?

I'm sure there are a lot of UG-bands that never wants to be bigger and also bands that were UG and slowly grown too big and the people behind started a new UG-project along with the other band. If someone's in UG-bm-band and his main goal is to grow and get more money, that sounds very wrong to me, but maybe I'm wrong.

1. Write people's names in the copies to prevent them from going to ebay

Works, but not completely, I have few releases from trades with name stained away.

Vega360 wrote:

3. Be in constant contact to know who has what, keeping records, blacklisting people who turn around and ebay something

Well, if I'd have an active distro, I'd blacklist few from this board right away.

Vega360 wrote:

At that point you should be asking yourself if you should just make more copies of something/hold out and make one full length instead of a bunch of random Eps with one track on them rather then deal with all that. Plus there are a bunch of people out there that see releases like this and can't take the bands/labels seriously regardless of how good the music actually is on it. Real Releases > Kvlt Peices anyday.

Some material can be too different to be included on the full-lenght, but works great on Ep or split.

Vega360 wrote:

I thought the Idea of underground releases was to distribute the music so bands could get on bigger labels and eventually earn money from their releases while still proving whatever point they want to prove?

I'm sure there are a lot of UG-bands that never wants to be bigger and also bands that were UG and slowly grown too big and the people behind started a new UG-project along with the other band. If someone's in UG-bm-band and his main goal is to grow and get more money, that sounds very wrong to me, but maybe I'm wrong.

Well in regards to EP/Split material there are some bands where every single thing they make just sounds the same. But writing a full length album is hard, I do understand that.

I used to be one of those "underground isn't more money/profit/whatever" peoples but usually when that is your mindset you find yourself buying shit you don't ever listen to, and the point of the actual music becomes lost. Plus if you ever want to interact and deal with people who don't persay share the "our music is only for the chosen people" ideals, you will sound like a retard and they won't take you serioulsy. Just ask the guy behind Terrorwolfe, he will more then likely tell you that I am unserious child who's got no fucking clue what's he's doing and can't be taken seriously.

[/quote]However I do understand, that for some people black metal only makes sense when it doesn't make sense and is stubbornly retarded and against everything. I have respect for some people who truly despite all of this keep up with this concept (Vothana) and if anything they are true to "the old ways" however and this is what the sad part, it is almost impossible to keep releases secret anymore thanks to the internet. Unless you live in some town where you give every person their copy in person and know them personally at some point your hidden existence will be compromised, then you will have either make more copies/make your music available or accept people's internet bitching.[/quote]

This is very true. There is one fellow in Norway I contacted once or twice who put out a release that he sent only to people who had actually sent him an email or letter, and those were the only copies of said release that ever, or will ever exist. As far as I know, that release still hasn't even popped up in name on the internet.

There is a small "boutique" (fuck, that's pretentious) label in SoCal that puts out obscure metal and hardcore, some of which was very important music to me, but all releases are in ridiculously small pressings and all are publicized weeks in advance. Fuck that. No matter how badly I wanted to hear a certain thing, let the hipster faggot drool over his unplayed copy.

But I think the music is all that matters. I just chalk it up to the luck of the draw, if I'm late then so be it._________________"If Detroit is not the asshole of the world, it is within farting distance."