Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the
world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to
over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a
wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history,
humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced
features available, you will need to register first. Registration is
absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

The first article says that flexibility is not beneficial for distance running, cycling and other sports with low intensity repetitive motion, but it aso mentions that it is beneficial for basketball, soccer and footbal that have more bursts of high intentisty motion like jumping and bouncing.

The first article says that flexibility is not beneficial for distance running, cycling and other sports with low intensity repetitive motion, but it aso mentions that it is beneficial for basketball, soccer and footbal that have more bursts of high intentisty motion like jumping and bouncing.

I'd say that aikido is more in the second category than the first.

Well, he said that it is "conceivable" that it may be beneficial for those things, but he didn't know one way or the other.

If you are a ballet dancer or a Tae Kwon Do student then the benefits are obvious, because you are moving outside the normal range of motion. Aikido techniques, on the other hand, can all be done quite well inside the normal range of motion.

Well, he said that it is "conceivable" that it may be beneficial for those things, but he didn't know one way or the other.

If you are a ballet dancer or a Tae Kwon Do student then the benefits are obvious, because you are moving outside the normal range of motion. Aikido techniques, on the other hand, can all be done quite well inside the normal range of motion

You probably mean this part:

Quote:

If yoga, weightlifting, soccer, rock climbing, or gymnastics are your passion, it is conceivable that stretching may range from important to an absolute must in those activities. I am not any kind expert in those fields [...], so I will leave that discussion for others.

I was referring to this part:

Quote:

According to the evidence presented, participants in high intensity sports that involve a large amount of jumping and bouncing, such as football, basketball, and soccer, tended to experience fewer injuries with increased flexibility.

I'm not trying to contradict you, but there do seem to be some nuances involved in the benefits of stretching, depending on the type of activity.

I have now
Interesting read, supporting that high flexibility is not beneficial for distance running. It also says that when you can reach a bit beyond your toes in the sit-and-reach test, you are more than flexible enough.

When I started aikido, I couldn't do that. Today I can touch my toes and after warming up a bit I can grab my toes. And thanks to your post, I won't feel embarrassed anymore when we do this in class and I see people grabbing their whole foot with ease

I have now
Interesting read, supporting that high flexibility is not beneficial for distance running. It also says that when you can reach a bit beyond your toes in the sit-and-reach test, you are more than flexible enough.

When I started aikido, I couldn't do that. Today I can touch my toes and after warming up a bit I can grab my toes. And thanks to your post, I won't feel embarrassed anymore when we do this in class and I see people grabbing their whole foot with ease

I've run long distances (up to 100 miles/week) for more than 15 years without stretching and without getting injured (well, not anything that stretching would help).

Aikido really doesn't involve greater than normal range of motion exercises, or the kind of impact that stretching would help (thinking of falling). Just my opinion, of course, but the case against classical static stretching as a warm-up is quite strong these days.

I think y'all have departed a bit from the original post, which makes it sound like sitting seiza is the problem. Jamie, is this the case?

Ah, well it is a problem, but I'm talking about after-class aches and wanting to have less of them. Both seiza and backfall ukemi, which means hitting the mat with the top of my foot flat with the rest of my leg, mean for me putting stretching stress on my feet and ankles in ways they're not used to yet. All the ukemi we did in yesterday's class were backfalls, so last night my ankle was sore. It's not this morning, but I tried sitting seiza for a bit and it did make it harder to hold it for long (besides that my carpet isn't as springy as the dojo mat).

Ah, well it is a problem, but I'm talking about after-class aches and wanting to have less of them. Both seiza and backfall ukemi, which means hitting the mat with the top of my foot flat with the rest of my leg, mean for me putting stretching stress on my feet and ankles in ways they're not used to yet. All the ukemi we did in yesterday's class were backfalls, so last night my ankle was sore. It's not this morning, but I tried sitting seiza for a bit and it did make it harder to hold it for long (besides that my carpet isn't as springy as the dojo mat).

It may be a range of motion problem - or it may just be a conditioning problem, in that your feet aren't used to being stretched in that direction. If that's the case, then they should become gradually stronger just through repetition.

Aikido really doesn't involve greater than normal range of motion exercises, or the kind of impact that stretching would help (thinking of falling). Just my opinion, of course, but the case against classical static stretching as a warm-up is quite strong these days.

Yep. I think dynamic range of motion is a much better warm up - and is an actual "warm up" - than static stretching but usually find I"m a lone voice in the desert....

We continue to do the stretches before class and I continue to wonder why. We also do some light jogging and other warmup activities in addition. The warmups are beneficial for me, but the stretches are of little benefit at all from my viewpoint. I guess I'm a lone voice in the dessert line myself.

Jumping on the sidetrack: The warmup we do involves stretching but it's not what I'd call "static" - it's bouncy, you reach and move back up on each count. Is that dynamic, or is that, as I saw when I googled dynamic motion stretching, what's called "ballistic"?

I think I said before - I did yoga for a semester in college. And I did get a lot more flexible in the sense that I could do the moves I couldn't at the beginning of the semester. I know that the actual health/safety of certain yoga poses are in question but one of the more important thing I learned was how to relax into a stretch, instead of muscle into it. I still do some yoga stretches on my own mainly just because that's what I know.

Ah, well it is a problem, but I'm talking about after-class aches and wanting to have less of them. Both seiza and backfall ukemi, which means hitting the mat with the top of my foot flat with the rest of my leg, mean for me putting stretching stress on my feet and ankles in ways they're not used to yet. All the ukemi we did in yesterday's class were backfalls, so last night my ankle was sore. It's not this morning, but I tried sitting seiza for a bit and it did make it harder to hold it for long (besides that my carpet isn't as springy as the dojo mat).

Backfalls aren't always done by putting the top of your foot (instep) on the mat -- my dojo teaches to do them by placing the foot normally and then just bending the foot and ankle as if you were squatting down (note, however, that when we're going to do a backward roll, we place the foot as you've described...which confuses the hell out of people). People will argue the pros and cons of the two approaches with great vigor -- I don't particularly have a dog in that hunt. I do know from hard experience that it is easy to injure the instep, either by hyperextending it or by impact, since it has very little padding, and it is a difficult and tedious injury to heal.

Doing backfalls that way does put you at risk for both of those mechanisms of injury. If that's the way backfalls are taught in your dojo, though, there's not much you can do but try to be careful and controlled in your ukemi. "Ride the elevator down" is a phrase we often use with newbies -- if you simply topple over from the top floor, or drop the elevator down the shaft in an uncontrolled fashion,it'll probably end in tears. As far as stretching, it does help with seiza, but avoiding trauma helps even more -- seiza will be painful if your insteps are banged up and sore. If you want to make seiza more tolerable, try spending some time at home sitting in seiza but with a pillow or cushion under your butt and between your feet/legs, so that your feet don't have to stretch quite so much or take quite as much weight at first. It does get better with time, but it doesn't if you incur trauma along the way.

Chris and Mary - I don't know about any of that, but I did learn last night that a lot of the time I was going down on the wrong leg (supposed to be the side closer to the nage). So maybe because of that I was going down harder than I needed to.

Well maybe, but then some dojos (e.g. mine) explicitly teach rolling from the outside leg (i.e., furthest from nage). Unless there's something specific about the direction they're throwing you - although come to think of it there might be - that shouldn't by itself cause you to go down hard or cause your feet to hurt... Of course on the other hand I've never really tried doing it using the top of my foot (we're live toe people...).

As far as 'stretching' I like rolling my ankles (sort of drawing a circle with your toes), and shaking them, and also squatting on hands and feet and rocking forward and back so you're bending and unbending your toes. We also often massage our feet a little before class. But those aren't done as static stretches they're just sort of going through the range of motion and 'loosening up'.

I just got introduced properly to the concept of live toes last night (though not in falling, for movement). In a word, yikes! I was on my hands more than my toes...maybe I should extend my inquiry to suggestsions on how to get better at that.