Very good question! `ia by itself does not imply a positive or negative sense. It is the sense of the discussion that has been in the `ia and agape thread that this is a positive thing (and it certainly is for Christian (and other religions) meditation!). But it doesn't have to be.

You could reinforce the positive sense of `ia by using the laudative infix <ei>, as in `ieia. Conversely, you can give `ia a negative sense by using the pejorative infix <äng>, as in `iänga (This becomes interesting because the end of the word becomes 'nga'). Beyond that, it is how you use the word in a sentence.

Just because `ia is intransitive doesn't mean that it can't be used for its intended meaning. Although I can see now that its being intransitive limits your choices.

OTOH, tatep has the problem that it isn't exactly spiritual in its meaning. From another thread, posted long time ago, tatep is more about losing some sort of object, rather than losing oneself. In fact, the term is really kind of a military term, from what I recall of that discussion. In any case, additional verbiage would be needed to add the spiritual dimension.

I have a short lunch hour today. Otherwise, I would try and cook up some sentences to use both of these terms, in the contexts we are discussing here.

Both `ia and kame are clearly terms to be understood in the spiritual sense.Tatep is not. I'm not even sure if this term can be used in a spiritual sense. But if it can be, it must be indicated as such, as the definition does not include this as a normal part of the understanding of this word.

, but I was concerned that the context wouldn't be clear. I had fiddled around with 'ia in phrases like:

oe 'almiänga nefya ronsem oeyäI had lost myself inside my mind

but wasn't crazy about that either. If using kame is too weird, what would you suggest? Irayo for all the thought you've put into this.Alyara Arati

First of all, ma Alyara Arati, I think what might have been meant here when they said that this was 'stylistically weird', is the word order:

Ke tsun käpivamänge oe

This to me, anyway, seems a little clearer, and is definitely more 'Na`vi-ish':

Ke tsun oe käpivamänge

Placing the subject between a modal verb and its target is OK, and common in K. Pawl's writings.

Now, back to what you just posted:

oe 'almiänga nefya ronsem oeyä

This is pretty good, except that nefya is not a recognized word (that I can find). I can see how you might have come up with this word: ne- (adp. 'in') + fya (borrowed from fya`o 'path'). However, there is a word for 'inside', namely mìfa, which is an adverb. A little word rearranging to create an attributive phrase for oe and you end up up with:

`almiänga oe a mìfa ronsem oeyä

As far as `ia being the right verb here depends on the context of how you are using this sentence. If you mean this in the sense of a bad dream or vision, I think `ia is a good verb to use here. But if you are using this as a kind of idiom to express the idea of confusion, etc. then tatep might be a better choice. I can't immediately think of a reason one would use kame here.

As far as `ia being the right verb here depends on the context of how you are using this sentence. If you mean this in the sense of a bad dream or vision, I think `ia is a good verb to use here. But if you are using this as a kind of idiom to express the idea of confusion, etc. then tatep might be a better choice. I can't immediately think of a reason one would use kame here.

Irayo once again! This whole discussion has been quite illuminating for me.

, but I was concerned that the context wouldn't be clear. I had fiddled around with 'ia in phrases like:

oe 'almiänga nefya ronsem oeyäI had lost myself inside my mind

but wasn't crazy about that either. If using kame is too weird, what would you suggest? Irayo for all the thought you've put into this.Alyara Arati

First of all, ma Alyara Arati, I think what might have been meant here when they said that this was 'stylistically weird', is the word order:

Ke tsun käpivamänge oe

This to me, anyway, seems a little clearer, and is definitely more 'Na`vi-ish':

Ke tsun oe käpivamänge

Placing the subject between a modal verb and its target is OK, and common in K. Pawl's writings.

No. The word order was just fine. I did not mean at all that the word order was weird. you should be able to mix the word order of this in any conceivable way and still have it be Na'vi and correct. I was just saying that is just a weird way to say it and a tad wordy imo. tsaria ke lamu law oe tsap'alute si.

This is pretty good, except that nefya is not a recognized word (that I can find). I can see how you might have come up with this word: ne- (adp. 'in') + fya (borrowed from fya`o 'path'). However, there is a word for 'inside', namely mìfa, which is an adverb. A little word rearranging to create an attributive phrase for oe and you end up up with:

`almiängia oe a mìfa ronsem oeyä

nefya is not a word. I think the word is nemfa, an ADP. mìfa is for stuff like I go inside. that's modifying the verb. nemfa is a locative thing. inside my mind, I am losing myself. ergo

As far as `ia being the right verb here depends on the context of how you are using this sentence. If you mean this in the sense of a bad dream or vision, I think `ia is a good verb to use here. But if you are using this as a kind of idiom to express the idea of confusion, etc. then tatep might be a better choice. I can't immediately think of a reason one would use kame here.

agreed. tho i gotta say that

'almiängia oe nemfa ronsem oeyä

basicall what the above is saying to me is: inside my mind, i lost my soul /

really, going back to the origin of the topic at hand, I would condone using simply

LearnNavi is not affiliated with the official Avatar website,
James Cameron, or the Twentieth Century-Fox Film Corporation.
All trademarks and servicemarks are the properties of their respective owners.Images in the LearnNavi.org Forums and Gallery may not be used without permission.

LearnNavi Affiliates:

LearnNavi is the community to learn Na'vi, the Avatar Language"A place where real friendships are made." -Paul Frommer