I am looking to put together an unarmed combat build with the highest possible sustainable HPS (hits per second). It has to be mainly monk, which may actually limit HPS, as it rules out druid Celerity, ranger Whirlwind and paladin Zeal because those all require more than 10 non-monk levels. (I could be persuaded on the Ranger or Paladin thing but not the Celerity. Wolf fighting is boring)

I am also setting aside druid Action Boost (because it is not sustainable), anything that requires a shield, and bard Inspire Recklessness (because it does not stack with doublestrike equipment).

Also, there is another big doublestrike bonus in the Killer enhancement (ranger 4 Deepwood Sniper 4 or rogue 4 Assassin), that I think counts as sustainable because it can be earned on every kill, stacks, and lasts 15 seconds per stack. But you are committing four levels to ranger to get it.

Anyway, this is leading to a Monk9/Ranger4 (23AP)/Wizard7 (11AP) that has Haste and Displacement or a Monk14/Ranger4 (23AP)/Wizard2 (7AP) that trades Displacement for another 1.5% doublestrike in Wind stance.

I am looking to put together an unarmed combat build with the highest possible sustainable HPS (hits per second). It has to be mainly monk, which may actually limit HPS, as it rules out druid Celerity, ranger Whirlwind and paladin Zeal because those all require more than 10 non-monk levels. (I could be persuaded on the Ranger or Paladin thing but not the Celerity. Wolf fighting is boring)

I am also setting aside druid Action Boost (because it is not sustainable), anything that requires a shield, and bard Inspire Recklessness (because it does not stack with doublestrike equipment).

Also, there is another big doublestrike bonus in the Killer enhancement (ranger 4 Deepwood Sniper 4 or rogue 4 Assassin), that I think counts as sustainable because it can be earned on every kill, stacks, and lasts 15 seconds per stack. But you are committing four levels to ranger to get it.

Anyway, this is leading to a Monk9/Ranger4 (23AP)/Wizard7 (11AP) that has Haste and Displacement or a Monk14/Ranger4 (23AP)/Wizard2 (7AP) that trades Displacement for another 1.5% doublestrike in Wind stance.

Are we sure this is really a bug and not just a stacking issue? I am guessing that Deft Strikes and Tempest are not supposed to stack? Maybe?

Hmm. Regardless, that makes ranger less attractive, although the Killer enhancement still beckons enticingly.

90% offhand proc is still pretty good. Until Perfect Two Weapon fighting, and then it is 100% again. Unless Perfect TWF is bugged too?

Grailhawk

03-10-2014, 03:35 PM

Are we sure this is really a bug and not just a stacking issue? I am guessing that Deft Strikes and Tempest are not supposed to stack? Maybe?

Its a handwrap thing as Def Strikes and Tempest stack when centered and fighting with two weapons.

Hmm. Regardless, that makes ranger less attractive, although the Killer enhancement still beckons enticingly.

90% offhand proc is still pretty good. Until Perfect Two Weapon fighting, and then it is 100% again. Unless Perfect TWF is bugged too?

Perfect Two Weapon Fighting does not give Offhand Proc it gives you 5% Doublestrike and 10% Off hand Doublestrike which is not the same as off hand proc rate.

Offhand double strike would mean that with 100% off hand and PTWF you would have about ~0.5% chance of attacking 4 times in one swing.

geoffhanna

03-10-2014, 04:01 PM

Perfect Two Weapon Fighting does not give Offhand Proc it gives you 5% Doublestrike and 10% Off hand Doublestrike which is not the same as off hand proc rate.

Righto, reading comprehension and all that, thank you for the pointer.

Any comments on anything else from the OP?

A related question:

A level 20 monk in wind stance with perfect TWF and three primal epic past lives would have 27% sustained doublestrike plus equipment.
A level 17 monk/3 wizard (or sorceror) would have 27.5%
A level 13 monk/3 wizard (or sorceror)/4 ranger would have between 27.5 and 42.5% (assumes that Killer, unlike Tempest, works with unarmed combat)

Is that all correct too? It is possible to get over 27.5% using unarmed combat?

Grailhawk

03-10-2014, 04:29 PM

Righto, reading comprehension and all that, thank you for the pointer.

Any comments on anything else from the OP?

A related question:

A level 20 monk in wind stance with perfect TWF and three primal epic past lives would have 27% sustained doublestrike plus equipment.
A level 17 monk/3 wizard (or sorceror) would have 27.5%
A level 13 monk/3 wizard (or sorceror)/4 ranger would have between 27.5 and 42.5% (assumes that Killer, unlike Tempest, works with unarmed combat)

Is that all correct too? It is possible to get over 27.5% using unarmed combat?

Note that Meditation of War in the Shintao tree could give you 100% off hand procs how ever I don't think its worth the penalty (+10% incoming damage).

I would want A build with both Haste Boost and Doublestrike Boost over the build with the Wizard levels. Though i would probably just do a 16/2/2 Monk/Fighter/Paladin build.

Thanks for the breakdown. No I wasn't including gear.

The haste boost IS pretty sweet. One can also get Killer from the rogue trees, which means rogue Haste boost is available too.

SardaofChaos

03-10-2014, 05:05 PM

Note that Meditation of War in the Shintao tree could give you 100% off hand procs how ever I don't think its worth the penalty (+10% incoming damage).

Pure monk could grab the shintao capstone core to negate the penalty from meditation of war, among other things. Don't know if that would offset the bonus from the ranger thing.

Grailhawk

03-10-2014, 05:05 PM

Thanks for the breakdown. No I wasn't including gear.

The haste boost IS pretty sweet. One can also get Killer from the rogue trees, which means rogue Haste boost is available too.

The thing with rogue haste boost is its in Thief which means burning 5AP to get to it there's nothing I would want to take in Thief Tier 1 on a non Quarterstaff build. But it is an option.

Nightmanis

03-10-2014, 05:41 PM

Righto, reading comprehension and all that, thank you for the pointer.

Any comments on anything else from the OP?

A related question:

A level 20 monk in wind stance with perfect TWF and three primal epic past lives would have 27% sustained doublestrike plus equipment.
A level 17 monk/3 wizard (or sorceror) would have 27.5%
A level 13 monk/3 wizard (or sorceror)/4 ranger would have between 27.5 and 42.5% (assumes that Killer, unlike Tempest, works with unarmed combat)

Is that all correct too? It is possible to get over 27.5% using unarmed combat?

Training to level 3 Shadowdancer gives you Shadow Training IV, which adds Shadow Walk to your build (a pure Monk doesn't need this; they get Empty Body at 19) but also a passive 3% Profane bonus to Doublestrike that should stack with the Morale bonus of Ultimate Wind Stance's doublestrike.

ArcaneArcher52689

03-13-2014, 10:50 AM

So, what we really want to do is maximize 3 things separate things: double strike, attack speed, offhand attack chance. The best way to maximize these attributes would be 11/6/3 monk/ranger/druid.
11 monk maintains your 10+ monk rule
6 ranger gives access to killer as well as exposing strike, which takes advantage of your bonus attacks.
3 druid gives access to nature's warrior for the doublestrike action boost as well as fatal harrier

For double strike:
monk gm wind stance gives 10%
gmof gives an additional 6%
3 pastlives gives a 9%
5% perfect twf feat
-that's the end of our character based sustainable doublestrike, with 30%
however, between killer and NW, we can have an additional 30% from action boost, and 20% from killer, so without gear, that gives us a possible doublestrike of 80%.

Attack speed:
windstance- 15% boost to attack speed
fatal harrier- 25% boost to attack speed
centered BAB of 19- almost highest possible BAB
haste boost available from tempest-not sure if this is worth getting after grabbing double strike AB, especially since you can twist the one from LD

Off hand proc chance:
deft strikes- 10%, full twf line 80%, for a total of 90%. Hard to get anymore while remaining unarmed.

geoffhanna

03-13-2014, 06:59 PM

Thank you for the responses! This is exactly the kind of discussion I was hoping to have. :)

Snarglefrump

03-13-2014, 08:17 PM

Ieen playing high hits-per-second builds for a few years now. They're a blast. At level 12 with the Frozen Tunic and Vampiric Stonedust Handwraps, you have three different abilities that can independently proc and make the enemy helpless (Greater Stone Prison, Freezing Ice, and Stunning). The toon is a veritable statue maker at those levels. I switch to Banishing wraps for the Vale.

Great Cleave is another way to increase your hits/second, but only when you're fighting a group.

geoffhanna

03-14-2014, 05:54 AM

Ieen playing high hits-per-second builds for a few years now. They're a blast. At level 12 with the Frozen Tunic and Vampiric Stonedust Handwraps, you have three different abilities that can independently proc and make the enemy helpless (Greater Stone Prison, Freezing Ice, and Stunning). The toon is a veritable statue maker at those levels. I switch to Banishing wraps for the Vale.

Great Cleave is another way to increase your hits/second, but only when you're fighting a group.

Ah hah! someone playing a monk/ranger already! So you can answer this question:

Does the Killer enhancement work when you are in unarmed combat?

Snarglefrump

03-14-2014, 10:47 AM

Ah hah! someone playing a monk/ranger already! So you can answer this question:

Does the Killer enhancement work when you are in unarmed combat?

I've been working on grinding out Fighter 9 / Monk 9 / Rogue 2 lives to pick up the +1 Tactics from Fighter past lives. Anyone with Veteran Status II could roll up a toon to test.

Raoull

03-14-2014, 11:42 AM

If you go really crazy with doublestrike it may not be worth it, but I recently started playing with Shadow Double. It is pretty awesome. Definitely a larger DPS increase than upping the base die to 1d8.

It is rather bursty (6 seconds out of 30 you have almost a 50% DPS boost), but that is sometimes a good thing.

geoffhanna

03-14-2014, 11:43 AM

I've been working on grinding out Fighter 9 / Monk 9 / Rogue 2 lives to pick up the +1 Tactics from Fighter past lives. Anyone with Veteran Status II could roll up a toon to test.

Oh, wait, you are right, and I have veteran status ... hmmm ... hold on ...

Snarglefrump

03-14-2014, 11:58 AM

If you go really crazy with doublestrike it may not be worth it, but I recently started playing with Shadow Double. It is pretty awesome. Definitely a larger DPS increase than upping the base die to 1d8.

It is rather bursty (6 seconds out of 30 you have almost a 50% DPS boost), but that is sometimes a good thing.