Edit: Can I just say that I'm glad they chose to use demon negotiations over shuffle time for recruiting new Personas? Shuffle time just felt like a random drop on top of a random drop. And at least here, negotiations have some pattern to them instead of just being whatever the demon feels like saying (looking at you, Strange Journey).

Or the randomness of negotations in SMT IV, where it didn't matter WHAT you picked, there was a chance the demon was gonna run off after you gave it money or items or told it to F off. There was no set way to know what to say to what demon, they kept changing.

Spoiler: The Reaper

I find it hilarious how it can catch the flue and die, just like that. It comes across as the whacky strangeness that games have.

I have officially boarded the S. S. Tetsuya × Makoto. I think I still prefer Yukiko's Social Link over Makoto's Confidant, but I think I like Makoto more as a character.

"[M]aybe we could study some things we don't have experience in yet..." That line near the end of the romantic version of Makoto's Rank 10 conversation bugs me. There's room for alternative interpretations (almost certainly deliberate on the game's part, for which I am thankful), but it comes off to me as a rather blatant double entendre. I prefer to think that Makoto and Tetsuya aren't the kinds of people who would do something they might regret nine months later--never mind that they've only been dating for a few days at that point in my playthrough.

Can I just say that I'm glad they chose to use demon negotiations over shuffle time for recruiting new Personas?

Honestly, this is my least favorite part of the entire game. Sure there's a pattern but it can only be figured out through trial and error and the game doesn't shed even a sliver of light on what response works best. I think Yahtzee said it best: "You may as well just press your cheeks together and make wet farting noises."

Can I just say that I'm glad they chose to use demon negotiations over shuffle time for recruiting new Personas?

Honestly, this is my least favorite part of the entire game. Sure there's a pattern but it can only be figured out through trial and error and the game doesn't shed even a sliver of light on what response works best. I think Yahtzee said it best: "You may as well just press your cheeks together and make wet farting noises."

But... there was a tutorial that explained it, called "Shadow Personalities". Shadows have a personality that determines which kind of response they like best, and it's shown in the upper left in a hold up (but it goes away after you start talking).

Granted, I often forget to look at their personality before starting a negotiation, but it's definitely explained.

but it comes off to me as a rather blatant double entendre. I prefer to think that Makoto and Tetsuya aren't the kinds of people who would do something they might regret nine months later--never mind that they've only been dating for a few days at that point in my playthrough.

Uh... what would even indicate that they do anything without protection? Plus, from what I know, Japan has, like, condoms in those vending machine dispensers. One quick trip, is all.

Shadow personalities? I either completely forgot about that part or I never paid much attention to it.

C-A

Last edited by CatMuto on Sat May 06, 2017 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Can I just say that I'm glad they chose to use demon negotiations over shuffle time for recruiting new Personas?

Honestly, this is my least favorite part of the entire game. Sure there's a pattern but it can only be figured out through trial and error and the game doesn't shed even a sliver of light on what response works best. I think Yahtzee said it best: "You may as well just press your cheeks together and make wet farting noises."

But... there was a tutorial that explained it, called "Shadow Personalities". Shadows have a personality that determines which kind of response they like best, and it's shown in the upper left in a hold up (but it goes away after you start talking).

Granted, I often forget to look at their personality before starting a negotiation, but it's definitely explained.

I don't remember the game explaining that to me but I'll check it out next time.

I suppose it is an easy thing to miss among those early tutorials. If you forget it's a thing, the personality identification doesn't really stand out at all. Which is why I often forget to check before proceeding to talk.

"[M]aybe we could study some things we don't have experience in yet..."

Shin (my MC's name): "Wait, you mean like... sex?"

Makoto: "Oh, gosh! No, that came out wrong. I just meant I wanted to study new things with you. I mean, for all I know, you already know all about that--which would be... understandable--it's just that my statement was meant to imply we'd be learning things neither of us could possibly have any experience in.

Makoto: "Oh, gosh! No, that came out wrong. I just meant I wanted to study new things with you. I mean, for all I know, you already know all about that--which would be... understandable--it's just that my statement was meant to imply we'd be learning things neither of us could possibly have any experience in.

Shin: Like what?

Makoto: Like... parenting! No, wait... That came out wrong again...

That sounds more like a conversation between the Persona 4 player character and Yukiko.

Sae: Stop. I know I said "tell me everything," but unless it's relevant to the case, don't tell me what you did with my sister.

Tetsuya [flustered]: Whoa-whoa-whoa! We haven't even been together for a month! [He exhales to regain his composure.] I know I've got a reputation for being a delinquent and all that, but nothing raunchy happened, okay? And that was the only date we've been on so far.

Sae: Stop. I know I said "tell me everything," but unless it's relevant to the case, don't tell me what you did with my sister.

I know Sae only has so much time for interrogation, but now I'm imagining the MC explaining every single thing he did over the past half year."And then I worked at the flower shop and made a bouquet with red flowers. That night I took the Captain Rank Big Bang Burger Challenge. The next day I had sex with your sister (SFW)."

"It's never too late to learn that growing old doesn't have to mean growing up. Stay curious, stay weird, stay kind, and don't let anyone ever tell you you aren't smart or brave or worthy enough." -Stanford Pines, Gravity Falls

Makoto: "Oh, gosh! No, that came out wrong. I just meant I wanted to study new things with you. I mean, for all I know, you already know all about that--which would be... understandable--it's just that my statement was meant to imply we'd be learning things neither of us could possibly have any experience in.

Shin: Like what?

Makoto: Like... parenting! No, wait... That came out wrong again...

That sounds more like a conversation between the Persona 4 player character and Yukiko.

Well, keep in mind, I'm still stuck until I can max out my charm. That said, they're both Priestess types, so I wouldn't say the above conversation is out of the question...

Well, keep in mind, I'm still stuck until I can max out my charm. That said, they're both Priestess types, so I wouldn't say the above conversation is out of the question...

Well, if Makoto's culture festival scenes (which I failed to see in my current playthrough due to insufficient Charm) are any indication, you're not wrong...

On that note, I've always kind of resented how the player character and his significant other are never able to be open with others about their relationship--to say nothing of how no one even figures out that they're dating. It kind of hurts suspension of disbelief when Kison (my Persona 4 character) can go on a date with Yukiko to the Summer Festival and no one learns about it. Never mind the implausibility of a date with Rise, an idol, not becoming a subject of gossip (not that my character has ever dated her). Do people just not talk about that kind of thing in Japan?

Yosuke: D-Did you go with someone else the next day...!?Kison: Yeah. I went with Yukiko. Didn't I mention that we were dating?

Sae: Stop. I know I said "tell me everything," but unless it's relevant to the case, don't tell me what you did with my sister.

That would certainly be weird. So, I can tell you all about the talking cat that changes its form; about Mishima wanting to get Ann to model nude for him and how a teacher is a physical bully and his Shadow Self was prancing around in pink undies; but here you suddenly draw the line?

Kawakami - You're just a high-schooler, you really shouldn't be spending your money on services like this

A few days later

IM from Kawakami - I do all kinds of housework, please request my services

...this is going to be one of those Social Links, isn't it?

Spoiler:

To be fair, I think it's the default "your bond with me isn't ready to advance yet. Please hang out with me." message for her. For what it's worth, I liked her more that most of my non-team member Confidants.

Oh, this one is at the very least way better than the P3 and P4 Temperance Links by a large margin, I just thought it was funny

Speaking of great,

Spoiler: 6/20

Geez I figured you guys were exaggerating with Makoto

I almost feel sorry for Ann being so bland and lame in comparison

Spoiler: The 'Problem' With Ann

Unfortunately, Ann has the misfortune of having a very strong start. Her connection towards the first target is huge; aside from her being one of his lust objects that he really, really wants, he also took advantage of Shiori and was the cause for her suicide attempt. So her stake in taking him down is several layers of "It's personal" and she gets the spotlight.

After that, she sort of loses her big moment. Lack of spotlight and, really, she doesn't have a personality that really demands some attention when she is on-screen. In turn, Makoto does. And she immediately takes over as the take-charge-of-things strategist, especially after hearing that the thieves have basically just wung it all the time.

Persona 5 being an RPG, I'm not exactly surprised that the final boss takes a very long time to defeat and has big cutscenes before, during, and after the fight, but I find it rather frustrating that from the moment I entered the final battle, I had no chance to save my game. The PS4 I'm playing my copy on belongs to my sister, and it's in her room, so I had to put the PS4 into Rest Mode mid-cutscene so she could go to bed on time. Ideally, I'll be able to pick up where I left off tomorrow, but I'm told that the console sometimes spontaneously makes a racket while in Rest Mode, which would wake my sister up, in which case she will turn it off, unsaved data be damned. I'm going to be really annoyed if it turns out that I was mere minutes away from a save point when my sister kicked me out; she's reasonable enough to allow a few more minutes if I'm close to a stopping point, but since I'm playing blind, I have no way of knowing.

Regarding Ann, I'll admit that she didn't make an impression on me. I don't hate her or even dislike her (though it's generally pretty hard for me to flat-out dislike a character, let alone hate them), but I don't think I'd react negatively to her being replaced with someone else unless her replacement appealed to me even less. As things stand, I'd probably rank the team as follows from favorite to least favorite: Makoto, Futaba, Morgana, Ryuji, Yusuke, Ann, Haru. That said, Makoto and Morgana are the only team members whose Confidants I have completed, so it's possible my opinion will change after additional playthroughs.

Edit: There was a save point mere minutes after the moment my sister forced me to stop playing. Good thing she didn't turn off the PS4 during the night.

Boy, I have a terrible habit of botching the 'true ending' paths in these games. Picked the third option on Sae's second response tree and was abruptly greeted with the 'false ending.' You'd think the "sell everyone out" option would kinda make sense at the time, since she already knows the identities of your accomplices, though the true path responses do make more sense in hindsight.

Still, I thought the false ending was handled poorly since it literally spoils what the true path would have been anyway. They could have just had a silhouetted figure open the door and shoot the guard and MC that way. The fact Akechi's identity as the traitor was spoiled beforehand didn't help matters either. Persona 4's true path was handled much better, despite the BS dialog trees you had to navigate through to get there.

Boy, I have a terrible habit of botching the 'true ending' paths in these games. Picked the third option on Sae's second response tree and was abruptly greeted with the 'false ending.' You'd think the "sell everyone out" option would kinda make sense at the time, since she already knows the identities of your accomplices, though the true path responses do make more sense in hindsight.

Still, I thought the false ending was handled poorly since it literally spoils what the true path would have been anyway. They could have just had a silhouetted figure open the door and shoot the guard and MC that way. The fact Akechi's identity as the traitor was spoiled beforehand didn't help matters either. Persona 4's true path was handled much better, despite the BS dialog trees you had to navigate through to get there.

Spoiler:

By that point, I figured that the game expected you to have already figured out the traitor's identity. I wrote this bit sometime before finishing the sixth dungeon:

Quote:

It's Akechi, isn't it? He's working for the group behind the mental shutdowns and he's the one that sells the party out. There's really no other option. We know he's been a Persona user since at least his first appearance, given that he can hear Morgana say "pancakes." This throws doubt over his claim that he only awakened to his Persona when he entered Okumura's palace and encountered the "real killer." He becomes a Confidant in his first appearance and it ranks up with the story, even though I had to wait for every other party member after the first palace. He only has four Confidant skills, all of which are available as soon as he joins the party. He begins with Megidola, which can kill his introductory boss in one hit. His physical skill hits hard AND has a higher than average crit rate. His post all-out attack victory stance is oddly flamboyant compared to his usual demeanor. He's the only party member that doesn't speak during the prologue sequence. (he does speak, just for one line)Also his rank 3 conversation:"Hey is that the girl with the dead mom? I have a dead mom too!">I have nothing to say to you."That's too bad."RANK UP!

And if he's the traitor, then that's also disappointing because he's not actually a traitor. He joins the party by blackmailing them into cooperating with him. That would hardly make for a betrayal of trust instead of just an antagonist being antagonistic. Really, I almost want to believe that Akechi's a red herring.

The real twist was that everyone figured it out and had already enacted their countermeasures.

"It's never too late to learn that growing old doesn't have to mean growing up. Stay curious, stay weird, stay kind, and don't let anyone ever tell you you aren't smart or brave or worthy enough." -Stanford Pines, Gravity Falls

Boy, I have a terrible habit of botching the 'true ending' paths in these games. Picked the third option on Sae's second response tree and was abruptly greeted with the 'false ending.' You'd think the "sell everyone out" option would kinda make sense at the time, since she already knows the identities of your accomplices, though the true path responses do make more sense in hindsight.

Still, I thought the false ending was handled poorly since it literally spoils what the true path would have been anyway. They could have just had a silhouetted figure open the door and shoot the guard and MC that way. The fact Akechi's identity as the traitor was spoiled beforehand didn't help matters either. Persona 4's true path was handled much better, despite the BS dialog trees you had to navigate through to get there.

Spoiler:

By that point, I figured that the game expected you to have already figured out the traitor's identity. I wrote this bit sometime before finishing the sixth dungeon:

Quote:

It's Akechi, isn't it? He's working for the group behind the mental shutdowns and he's the one that sells the party out. There's really no other option. We know he's been a Persona user since at least his first appearance, given that he can hear Morgana say "pancakes." This throws doubt over his claim that he only awakened to his Persona when he entered Okumura's palace and encountered the "real killer." He becomes a Confidant in his first appearance and it ranks up with the story, even though I had to wait for every other party member after the first palace. He only has four Confidant skills, all of which are available as soon as he joins the party. He begins with Megidola, which can kill his introductory boss in one hit. His physical skill hits hard AND has a higher than average crit rate. His post all-out attack victory stance is oddly flamboyant compared to his usual demeanor. He's the only party member that doesn't speak during the prologue sequence. (he does speak, just for one line)Also his rank 3 conversation:"Hey is that the girl with the dead mom? I have a dead mom too!">I have nothing to say to you."That's too bad."RANK UP!

And if he's the traitor, then that's also disappointing because he's not actually a traitor. He joins the party by blackmailing them into cooperating with him. That would hardly make for a betrayal of trust instead of just an antagonist being antagonistic. Really, I almost want to believe that Akechi's a red herring.

The real twist was that everyone figured it out and had already enacted their countermeasures.

Spoiler:

Yeah, it's pretty easy to piece together his identity just based on the narrative clues alone (automatic Confidant rank up, has the four major combat skills, doesn't show up in the intro sequence, the only who could organize such a huge police bust, etc.), nevermind Morgana's line about "pancakes". In fact, that inconsistency didn't even cross my mind since such a long time had passed between the TV station and the school festival that I'd completely overlooked such a minor detail. The way the group duped him into believing he succeeded was the real twist.

I have to say, Adachi was much less obvious than Akechi. Adachi's screw-up wasn't as easily noticed, and even in Golden, where you get to form a Social Link with him for some weird reason, he at least doesn't level up as the plot progresses until you confirm he's the culprit. Also, another bad guy pretending to be your friend while playing the role of detective? Way to be original, ATLUS.

Yes, the twist in P5 was arguably that they outsmarted Akechi, but let's face it, did anyone really think they were going to kill of the protagonist for real before we even fought the big bad?

What I want to know is how Akechi has one Metaverse costume for when he's pretending to be a good guy, and another costume for when he's going around killing people.

Unrelated, I just recently found out that the kanji in Makoto's name can be pronounced the same way as the name I gave my protagonist.

As others have pointed out, the game wasn't exactly subtle about the traitor's identity. I think that was intentional; the theme of this game is standing up to corruption and injustice, not pursuing the truth.

TheDoctor wrote:

Unrelated, I just recently found out that the kanji in Makoto's name can be pronounced the same way as the name I gave my protagonist.

Long live the Queen.

I sometimes feel as though the game itself wants the player character to date Makoto. First there's that scene with Makoto and the player character holding hands (though technically just because Makoto was scared) when trying to meet Futaba, to say nothing of Sojiro mistaking them for a couple when he finds them, then there's the whole "posing as a couple to investigate Tsukasa" bit from her Confidant, and on top of all that, one of the DLC packs allows the player character and Makoto to dress as Vincent Brooks and Katherine McBride, respectively.

On a different note, I can't help but compare Sae to Lana Skye in my mind. They're both prosecutors, they both come off as aloof at first but are actually decent people on the inside who care very much about their respective younger sisters, they both look beautiful, and to top it all off, Sae's attire reminds me of a custom Lana sprite I made several years ago.

Substitute "stupid Ryuji was" for "stupid Ryuji is and will continue to be" and yeah, in total agreement there.

At least his confidant route is decent, but as usual S-link stuff with the party members doesn't change how they act in the story. It's nice that confidants provide additional benefits to gameplay, but impacting the story in some way doesn't exist yet (beyond something simple like who you can hang out with during special vacation events). I'm not complaining, since that would add a significant amount of complexity to developing the scenario, but it would be nice if it could happen one day.

I like Ryuji, but I'll grant that he occasionally does things stupid enough to endanger my suspension of disbelief. Then again, while he's easily the most prominent example of Phantom Thieves talking about being Phantom Thieves within earshot of third parties, he's far from the only person who does it. The team routinely meets in public, after all, to say nothing of the times they've outright entered the Metaverse in plain sight. To be blunt, I think it's rather impressive that all through the game, none of the innumerable passers-by overheard them and decided to report them. Then there's the whole "texting each other about their work" bit.

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