I can't wait until you throw those for comparison. God I love my blue VIP Sword...Even my friends who play with me all the time comment on how it is going farther for me even though I look like I'm barely throwing it. I don't think it is as nose angle sensitive as the Flow, despite being faster.

I also take back what I said earlier about the Sword sharing mold parts with the Flow. On closer inspection the tops are quite different. The wings look identical in shape and proportion, but the Sword's is definitely longer. At this point I'd say I've adopted the Sword as my distance driver over the Flow. It is just outperforming it. The VIP has more HSS than my Opto Flow, especially into the wind, and at the same time has less LSS. It powers down just as well as the Flow too, and I've used it for some 350'-380' low ceiling hyzers where it just flew so smooth. The tounament plastic Sword flies almost exactly like my GL Flows, only longer. With my Flows I always knew that I was giving up a little D on most lines compared to faster neutral drivers, but I didn't care because of the grip, glide, and consistent stability. The Sword seems to give me all the advantage of the Flow while being as long or longer than anything else, especially on a straight line.

The VIP Sword i tested fades way more than my Opto Flow. Destroyer vs Wraith likeness in the magnitude of the fade Sword vs Flow.

Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.

JR wrote:The VIP Sword i tested fades way more than my Opto Flow. Destroyer vs Wraith likeness in the magnitude of the fade Sword vs Flow.

I tested max weight Pink Opto Flow vs. max weight blue VIP Sword(both discs deflashed and slightly seasoned), and I'm talking fade on 400'+ throws that get just a little high speed turn. Although I haven't seen any more fade from the Sword on shorter throws either. Since the Sword is fading way more for you, perhaps it's a spin thing. Neither discs fade as much as a Destroyer for me.

JR wrote:The VIP Sword i tested fades way more than my Opto Flow. Destroyer vs Wraith likeness in the magnitude of the fade Sword vs Flow.

I tested max weight Pink Opto Flow vs. max weight blue VIP Sword(both discs deflashed and slightly seasoned), and I'm talking fade on 400'+ throws that get just a little high speed turn. Although I haven't seen any more fade from the Sword on shorter throws either. Since the Sword is fading way more for you, perhaps it's a spin thing. Neither discs fade as much as a Destroyer for me.

I have been throwing the Tournament Sword (Black 172, Orange 173, Blue 168) now for over two weeks and I have to agree with almost everything you have said in this thread. I picked it up because it is advertised as more HSS than discs like the Boss, Nuke, Destroyer, etc so I knew I could wail on it without it turning or flipping (assuming clean release and not wrist rolling or unintended anhyzers from OAT). Yet it is rated less LSS than all those discs mentioned before. In theory it is supposed to be dead straight even when powered up.

So far it has lived up perfectly to my expectations. I cannot say that it has increased my maximum distance, but what it has done is maintained that distance with more consistent and accurate lies to my intended target. I still get more raw distance from my Pro Destroyers, but they require more room out to the right so it can fade back in on target.

For the sake of comparisons, the closest thing it flew like for me is my Z Nukes.

What the Sword has done for me is raised in interest in the Swedish style of throwing. Unless I am mistaken, these discs were designed by players/ manufacturers who throw with that style. So while I am seeing great results from it, would I not get even better results if I adopt the Swedish style of throwing for this disc?

Lastly, I also gave the Boatman a try because its statistics are nearly identical to the Sword, just one speed rating lower. These discs could not be more different. The Boatman unless powered up to the max seemed almost identical to a Predator with a ton of LSS.

I can see the Z Nuke comparison somewhat, although the types of holes I play really points to the contrast between the two. The Z Nuke must be thrown harder to work. For me it also require me to get it turned pretty good during it's flight to not fade too much. On a 400' shot that doesn't turn or barely turns, the Z Nuke has a strong fade/skip. Not as strong as a Boss, but still pretty strong. If I get the Sword turned just a touch there is almost no fade/skip. The Z Nuke also likes to get some weird lift/airbounce that I found hard to control with a ceiling, but my Swords stay right at the height I put them on. My results are probably a bit influenced by season though...We're getting so much rain right now that the grass is thick and the ground is soft, so nothing is skipping as much as it will in the dry season here.

JR wrote:The VIP Sword i tested fades way more than my Opto Flow. Destroyer vs Wraith likeness in the magnitude of the fade Sword vs Flow.

I tested max weight Pink Opto Flow vs. max weight blue VIP Sword(both discs deflashed and slightly seasoned), and I'm talking fade on 400'+ throws that get just a little high speed turn. Although I haven't seen any more fade from the Sword on shorter throws either. Since the Sword is fading way more for you, perhaps it's a spin thing. Neither discs fade as much as a Destroyer for me.

At distances of ~400+ feet the Sword indeed has very little fade, almost none. I haven't really thrown the Flow that much myself so can't directly compare them, but from what I've seen the fade is about similar when powered down (based on watching turso's throws).

Parks wrote:If the posts on this forum are any indication, the PD is like a Teebird with sunshine coming out of its butthole so hard that it flies faster.

If you like Pro Destroyers you should love the Sword. My first impression of these was basically "an easier to throw Destroyer, between premium and Pro". I've had similar flight paths from perfectly seasoned Pro Destroyers before, but those don't stay there very long. The grip is a tad shallower though, but no biggie.

Parks wrote:If the posts on this forum are any indication, the PD is like a Teebird with sunshine coming out of its butthole so hard that it flies faster.

The Sword reminds of a FR Destroyer more than anything. In fact, I sold my last FR Destroyer to my buddy (original red champystar) and he uses it as his straight distance driver. We were doubles partners last week and we were throwing them on very similar lines. IMO, the FR Destroyers were the straightest with the most glide. The Sword is still different. It's hard for me to quite put a finger on it, but I suspect the Sword has a lower cruising speed. I don't remember ever being able to back off Destroyers much or throw them 80% like I am doing with the Sword. The Tourney Plastic Sword (i'm more or less describing the VIP above) reminds me a lot of the E* Destroyer. Although my tourney Swords are domey, and most that we received in the store were flattish.

Interesting. My TP copper colored Sword is not that domey. Certainly less than Pro Destroyer by a significant margin. Got lucky once with it in a late headwind gust that flipped the disc 80 % of the way a bit and had the disc land at 130 m. Easily the longest toss ever with this mold for me and way more than normal.

Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.

Redisculous wrote:Discspeed, how do you think this disc would fly for someone with a more humble range than yourself, say 360' with speed 9 discs.

The Flow might be better for you, but I don't think you are disqualified from throwing the Sword at all. My friend threw it today, and he has less range than you, and with a flat and nose down release it held straight for him for a good while before fading strongly. That was my 175, which is one of the more stable that I've tested. Out of the ones I've tried, I'd go for an orange colorshift 172. Today I ripped one of these 450' with a slight tailwind...This was the longest drive I've had in a while, and on that shot it turned about -1.5 and faded +3 (the wind was a right to left tail, which accentuated the fade). At your power this disc would probably be something like -.5 hss and +2.5 lss. The fade is late, gliding, and forward. This is definitely the first distance driver this year that has wowed me, though this is somewhat personal as this disc just clicks with my style and the type of release angles I'm most comfortable with.

I was gonna grab one at a tourney this weekend, but i passed on it because i wasnt sure what it flies like, what angles are you throwing for max D/open D? Flatter, slight hyzer, steep hyzer, alight anny? I throw mostly from a slight hyzer for max D and like to use a hyzer flip w/ a some turn in the middle of the flight as opposed to an anny flex type S shot thing, or just a full on hyzer. I have similar range as you do and currently am using a flow in this slot.

Sounds like we throw really similarly. When my cobalt blue max weight Sword was new I had to throw it flat to get it to fly straight, but after getting ALL the flash off and perhaps a couple of hard hits it flips up from a bit of hyzer like my more stable Flows do. My black Tournament plastic Sword is a total hyzer flipper like the average Flow, and it bombs for all out D...It's also nice for touchier lower power distance drives as well. The funny thing is my 170 blue tourney Sword was more stable than the optos when I threw it flat backhand...So I figured it could fly flat on my FH shot because I have less power and get a clean release with the Sword. I threw it FH flat on a shot with water on the left and it turned and went way out to sea. So obviously the Sword needs some spin to be stable, and if you give it a more torque based rip like FH or with a full reachback BH it is less stable.

I agree.

I have a deflashed 170 TP Orange color shift that I like to flip it to flat. I visited Hood River,OR this week and there was much more wind (20mph+) than my normal Memphis sweatbox. The Sword turned over in a stronger wind when I flexed it. I've been surprised/fail a couple times when the Sword turned over when thrown flat max hard FH with little fade. I can't powerup the same turnover line with my seasoned 172 Z Nuke.

himynameismatt wrote:After those Destroyer comparisons these most definitely will get a shot against the Flows in my bag. Looking forward to them duking it out over the next few weeks.

I thought it would be a duke out in my bag, but to be honest I haven't thrown a Flow since my 2nd or 3rd throw with the Sword...I had no intention of liking the Sword so much. The Flow had been the best D driver for my game that I've used in the past couple of years. Anything faster/longer I tried would have huge downsides like needing a harder throw or a less comfortable rim. Over time I started really favoring the GL Flow due to it's straightness, but I would suffer in the wind with that disc. I almost needed another stable distance driver to fill the gap because simply going with my Opto Flow didn't provide much more wind resistance. The lower profiled Sword is a lot easier to throw into the wind as it penetrates much better. Even though I throw the Sword farther, I also find it just as easy to take a little off of and still get the intended flight. For example I was playing doubles last week and I was on a low ceiling 390' hole. I threw a little too hard and ended up 30' past the basket. We ended up tying for the win and played off starting on that same hole. With my earlier throw fresh in my mind I threw the Sword exactly the same, only I slowed down, aimed a bit low, and took a little off the throw. I had a very similar line only this time I landed 5' in front of the basket. I could do this with the Flow, only at shorter distances. I could never do this with the Destoyer unless it was broken in and could no longer take a hard throw.

Redisculous wrote:Discspeed, how do you think this disc would fly for someone with a more humble range than yourself, say 360' with speed 9 discs.

The Flow might be better for you, but I don't think you are disqualified from throwing the Sword at all. My friend threw it today, and he has less range than you, and with a flat and nose down release it held straight for him for a good while before fading strongly. That was my 175, which is one of the more stable that I've tested. Out of the ones I've tried, I'd go for an orange colorshift 172. Today I ripped one of these 450' with a slight tailwind...This was the longest drive I've had in a while, and on that shot it turned about -1.5 and faded +3 (the wind was a right to left tail, which accentuated the fade). At your power this disc would probably be something like -.5 hss and +2.5 lss. The fade is late, gliding, and forward. This is definitely the first distance driver this year that has wowed me, though this is somewhat personal as this disc just clicks with my style and the type of release angles I'm most comfortable with.

I was gonna grab one at a tourney this weekend, but i passed on it because i wasnt sure what it flies like, what angles are you throwing for max D/open D? Flatter, slight hyzer, steep hyzer, alight anny? I throw mostly from a slight hyzer for max D and like to use a hyzer flip w/ a some turn in the middle of the flight as opposed to an anny flex type S shot thing, or just a full on hyzer. I have similar range as you do and currently am using a flow in this slot.

Sounds like we throw really similarly. When my cobalt blue max weight Sword was new I had to throw it flat to get it to fly straight, but after getting ALL the flash off and perhaps a couple of hard hits it flips up from a bit of hyzer like my more stable Flows do. My black Tournament plastic Sword is a total hyzer flipper like the average Flow, and it bombs for all out D...It's also nice for touchier lower power distance drives as well. The funny thing is my 170 blue tourney Sword was more stable than the optos when I threw it flat backhand...So I figured it could fly flat on my FH shot because I have less power and get a clean release with the Sword. I threw it FH flat on a shot with water on the left and it turned and went way out to sea. So obviously the Sword needs some spin to be stable, and if you give it a more torque based rip like FH or with a full reachback BH it is less stable.

I agree.

I have a deflashed 170 TP Orange color shift that I like to flip it to flat. I visited Hood River,OR this week and there was much more wind (20mph+) than my normal Memphis sweatbox. The Sword turned over in a stronger wind when I flexed it. I've been surprised/fail a couple times when the Sword turned over when thrown flat max hard FH with little fade. I can't powerup the same turnover line with my seasoned 172 Z Nuke.

In gusting winds in field practice yesterday my Sword flipped each time in headwinds. I needed about 4 degrees of initial hyzer for a flip to flat. If i released flat in a lull in the wind at the throwing place and the wind hit the disc in flight it flipped that same 4 degrees. Moderate winds. I have a while from my previous Destroyer throws but if memory serves it is less susceptible to gusts. If a broken in Pro Destroyer flips it comes back maybe a tad later than my disc. I also used a King and a Z Nuke and my Sword fades earlier than both it is also consistently significantly shorter on average and in max D. From the descriptions of others we either differ in form (i don't have super RPMs) or mine may be less HSS and possibly a little more LSS than your discs.

Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.