Re: News - Amazon UK opens download store for PC software and games

Think I'll stick with Steam as my main software provider - like the service and am used to it. Getting a little worried by the amount of business that I'm putting Amazon's way these days - especially with their ... interesting ... approach to paying UK taxes.

Only upside I can see is that it might force UbiShop, Origin and Steam to compete better.

Career status: still enjoying my new career in DevOps, but it's keeping me busy...

Re: News - Amazon UK opens download store for PC software and games

Originally Posted by crossy

Think I'll stick with Steam as my main software provider - like the service and am used to it. Getting a little worried by the amount of business that I'm putting Amazon's way these days - especially with their ... interesting ... approach to paying UK taxes.

Re: News - Amazon UK opens download store for PC software and games

Re: News - Amazon UK opens download store for PC software and games

Originally Posted by kalniel

Originally Posted by crossy

Think I'll stick with Steam as my main software provider - like the service and am used to it. Getting a little worried by the amount of business that I'm putting Amazon's way these days - especially with their ... interesting ... approach to paying UK taxes.

How much in UK taxes does Valve pay from Steam purchases and profit?

Well as they are not listing themselves as a UK company I am not sure it's relevant...

Re: News - Amazon UK opens download store for PC software and games

Originally Posted by kalniel

Neither are Amazon surely?

Amazon UK is a UK Company, but if they choose to follow the incentives for registering their company in ireland, and therefore receive massive tax breaks for employing irish people, then they're following the law as definied by politicians.

which is why its weird that the politicians don't understand the legality of the system they created being used by massive companies to minimise their tax returns.

Re: News - Amazon UK opens download store for PC software and games

Originally Posted by crossy

Getting a little worried by the amount of business that I'm putting Amazon's way these days - especially with their ... interesting ... approach to paying UK taxes.

Their corporation tax approach is part of what allows the lower prices from which you benefit, cheaper prices means you'll spend more with them and they can't dodge the VAT - that's going straight to HMRC. They also fully pay all the tax and NI through from their employees needed to service those increasing orders, and jobs are a good things because that's people off benefits and into work.

It's wrong to suggest that Amazon don't positively impact the government's finances, corporation tax is just a small part of their tax burden. The sales company is not officially UK based (only the fulfillment company is) and so they pay most of their corporation tax in Luxembourg, the international system allows that so if you don't like it you need to lobby the world's governments to change it.

Are you seriously suggesting that if there was a 100% legal loophole that allowed you pay income tax as if you lived in a low tax nation you would not use it? Even if you did it's probably an illusion, you'll just spend that money on luxuries and pay it via VAT, or you'll invest and pay tax on that etc etc

Re: News - Amazon UK opens download store for PC software and games

Id much rather pay Amazon than valve! There are a few deals, just got the new Civ 5 DLC (new world or something) for £10 listed as mac but its a steam key and works .

Really dont see why people buy from Value/Steam direct as it costs far to much and offers no advantage! Most things on Steam cost more than the RRP and its only the Steam sales that seem ok (albeit it seems they just keep repeating their sales yearly now...same items ). If you can buy it from elsewhere for £10 less and its a steam key whats the issue? Greenman gaming is normally brilliant on steam deals and im glad Amazon has finally come over to the UK for more competition!.

Just waiting for an Open Source initiative for a Steam replacement where its easy to use and competitive.

Originally Posted by snootyjim

Trust me, go into any local club and shout "I've got dual Nehalem Xeons" and all of the girls will practically collapse on the spot at the thought of your e-penis

Re: News - Amazon UK opens download store for PC software and games

Originally Posted by kingpotnoodle

Their corporation tax approach is part of what allows the lower prices from which you benefit, cheaper prices means you'll spend more with them and they can't dodge the VAT - that's going straight to HMRC. They also fully pay all the tax and NI through from their employees needed to service those increasing orders, and jobs are a good things because that's people off benefits and into work.

It's wrong to suggest that Amazon don't positively impact the government's finances, corporation tax is just a small part of their tax burden. The sales company is not officially UK based (only the fulfillment company is) and so they pay most of their corporation tax in Luxembourg, the international system allows that so if you don't like it you need to lobby the world's governments to change it.

Are you seriously suggesting that if there was a 100% legal loophole that allowed you pay income tax as if you lived in a low tax nation you would not use it? Even if you did it's probably an illusion, you'll just spend that money on luxuries and pay it via VAT, or you'll invest and pay tax on that etc etc

Definitely agree on the jobs bonus - especially as I've got a large "fulfillment centre" just down the road from me. And there's a large web services division in Edinburgh. This download store though I don't think will create many jobs in the UK.

And I'll agree with what you're saying on the loophole business - they're legally entitled to use it, but is setting up shell companies just to dodge tax moral?

There's also the Saraceninc point that the more you use Amazon, the more information they're gathering on you. And that information seems to be shared with other parties - I've certainly seen "Ads by Google" panels where the content was obviously based on my Amazon purchase history.

And the final nail, as far as I'm concerned, is that I find the Steam pricing on stuff I'm interested in quite competitive. I recently pre-ordered Saints Row IV and the deal on offer was as near identical to the one in the local Sainsbury's. Only downside of the Steam deal was that I didn't get any Nectar points, on the other hand I do get it downloaded when available automatically.

Career status: still enjoying my new career in DevOps, but it's keeping me busy...

Re: News - Amazon UK opens download store for PC software and games

Why is it all these people feel the need to go tubthumping about not paying the tax. They are paying the legal minimum they need to. Just like I do.

Did I demand the £10k that HMRC made me overpay them to be refunded? Hell yes I bloody well did.

I also find it funny how the last person I met in real life moaning about these companies, bought their digital camera from a Hong Kong merchant because it was cheaper... Hmm.

I can't help but feel its Champaign socialist grade hypocrisy going on. This is before we even get started on Corporation Tax been a nasty, regressive pointless tax. It appears to be all about appeasing the dumb.

Re: News - Amazon UK opens download store for PC software and games

bytejunkie: there is no such company as Amazon UK.

Amazon does have subsidiaries in the UK who do pay UK corp tax in accordance with the law and I suspect probably run the distribution depots. I would have thought that a tech web site user would realise that having a ".co.uk" website says absolutely nothing about where the website is based - it could be run from anywhere in the world. It is the website that takes and process your order not the distribution depot

Re: News - Amazon UK opens download store for PC software and games

Why is it all these people feel the need to go tubthumping about not paying the tax. They are paying the legal minimum they need to. Just like I do.

....

Overall, I agree with you on the tax point and have said so nany times.

But .... there is also the point that what these companies are doing is following the letter of the law to achieve a result that, while entirely legal, is clearly not what was intended by law.

So .... I blame civil servants and their political masters for setting up a system that allowed someone to drive a coach and horses, ir a cruise liner, through what they intended. Basically, they got out-thought by brighter accountants.

And what really frosts my coconuts is that the principle of transfer pricing is neither, a), complicated, nor b), new. I knew of companies using much this same technique for tax "efficiency" when I did my accountancy training .... over 30 years ago. I knew of one company (and have forgotten the name) that saved about £2 million a year by changing the paper trail to go through a foreign subsidiary, thus changing the invoice date on the goods in the UK, which changed the timing the the payment of VAT, and the interest earned on the sums involved amounted to about £2 million.

Presumably, if this company gained £2 million by paying the correct amount, but paying it, absolutely legally, 3 months later, the government lost that same amount of interest. And NO changes were made to the physical goods. It was a change in accounting procedure only.

I seem, vaguely, to remember that that stunt lasted about 5 years before VAT rules changed to prevent it, and I'm not aware of it being legal now.

But companies using transfer pricing to shift profits abroad to domains where corp tax us low are clearly acting legally, and SOME of them, (like Google) actually gave a pretty good case for why it's fair to have transfer pricing reflect that a minimal amount of the economic activity that enables their trade takes place in the UK. Of course, it doesn't take place in Ireland or Luxembourg either, but where all the developers are, i.e. in the US. Other companies, like coffee retailers, can't credibly make that claim.

Anyhow, a number of companies aren't paying ALL the taxes that they should if they paid according to the intent of the law rather than what a smart accountant can get past a judge.

They might be able to argue they're acting legally, but if enough of their customers got sufficiently pee'd off and boycotted them, they'd change their attitude right quick.

Anyone that moans about these companies that have been so prominently outed for tax shenanigans but still buys from them because they're cheaper than others is, I'm afraid, both a hypocrite and part of the problem.

And if we want the problem solved, politicians should spend a lot less time grandstanding and bitching about it, and more time fixing it.