An elderly couple showed up at Iowa gas with several repoduction signs! They actually sold $7000 worth before word got out about the signs! They did refund everyone's money back too!!! I honestly don't believe they even knew??? BUT they had the guys card whom they bought all the signs from!!!I then conveyed to them to go get their money back AND/OR hire a lawyer immediately because he is committing FRAUD! This guy Is deliberatly selling these NEW reproductions as originals! He has been doing so for awhile also! He goes to flea markets instead of gas shows OR ebay!!!!HE MUST BE STOPPED! The signs have heavy shelving, rusty backs, clear coated to shine and some are even dated(see mobil marine!!!) They are getting closer and closer to the REAL deal??? How close must he get before we PUT OUR FOOT DOWN?Several oldgas members also witnessed what I'm talking about and feel the same way!!!The elderly couple was VERY helpful in identifying the origin of these and also let me take pictures of EVERY one both front and back! I also invited them to join us on this forum and keep us in tune to their outcome or lawsuit!Please don't slam anyone so this doesn't get locked or deleted??? It's too important of imformation...

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Tom 219-778-3155signchaser@comcast.netLooking for early wolfshead signs and hoosier pete signs or globes

Lastly I'd like to mention that even seasoned veterans in the trade were fooled by a few of these!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I don't have a $100,000 in signs on my wall!BUT IF I DID I would really start wondering what is going to happen to this hobby and the prices once he and people like him are allowed to continue???

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Tom 219-778-3155signchaser@comcast.netLooking for early wolfshead signs and hoosier pete signs or globes

Please note that none had grommets! Most were really shiny(front+back). All had the drying rack marks on back and/or rusty bubble lookin backs...Few were obvios BUT both mobil marine and flange would fool you!!!!!Also if you put grommets in colonial, sunny south,and that graphic master it would be next to impossible to tell($$$) UNLESS your an absolute expert???They also had a 30 Inch round porcelain gmcsign that I didn't get pictured because it sold and didn't get returned???

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Tom 219-778-3155signchaser@comcast.netLooking for early wolfshead signs and hoosier pete signs or globes

That's the Marine sign I bought and returned. My wife was SOOOO pleasad with herself for finding the sign and pointing it out to me and I was stupid enough to buy it. Now she's all "deflated" but I can only blame myself...or can IRay

Ray, Your NOT stupid buddy OR the one to blame! You were decieved by a High Quality repo as was your wife! This is the FIRST time I have seen any dated repo looking EXACTLY like an original??? That is my whole point! Even the seasoned veterans can be fooled by these....This has to STOP!I just can't stress how badly the elderly couple felt also!!!!!!!

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Tom 219-778-3155signchaser@comcast.netLooking for early wolfshead signs and hoosier pete signs or globes

Those are the scum from Monticello. I hope the couple get their money back. I'm sure they were duped. How can this be stopped other than posting here? At least those that read this will be educated. Someone contact PCM and Check the Oil so the info gets published. Not all subscribers belong to oldgas.

Oh...You sure wouldn't want to upset the person who is ripping people of by passing on known fake signs and causing everyone to doubt whether signs or real or not. Never mind the people who are getting taken for a lot of money.

I'm going to gingerly touch my toe in the water here...I saw a Power-Lube repro sign at Kane Co. Flea Market yesterday. These people had a "blobby propeller" Socony sign at DuPage Co. Flea Market early this year. They sell a lot of decorative metalwork that they don't pretend is antique at all; plus lately, they have been displaying a sign or two. None of the signs there were aged or distressed at all. The grommets were shiny and bright. I did not check to see how they were representing the sign, or ask them any questions. Their truck is unmarked, and I couldn't see the license plate(s). When I first read this thread, I thought "if those folks are at Iowa Gas, they can't be here." Then I reread the first post.At this point I felt I needed to post what I've seen. Until the past 8 - 10 months, I have not seen repro porcelain signs in our area. But they are showing up in northern Illinois.

these repos are getting better all the time, its on ebay & signed @ the bottom Pa....I believe this is bogus but i could be wrong......the artwork & colors look off & i have never seen another....

Thanks for doing the work to expose these online Tom, please keep it up.....There are people getting ripped off all over the place like this older couple & other seasoned veterans......I rember seeing that Master Outboard Motor Oil @ Peotone a year ago, It was bought by a seasoned veteran & unless he reads this probably has no idea its fake...... I also had a friend @ Iowa Gas who just bought 2 of the Sunray No Smoking signs for $2000 each in California before Des Moines took place, needless to say after seeing them in Des Moines & hearing their story, he's very upset.....

[This message has been edited by roadrelics@aol.com (edited 08-05-2007).]

Hi Guys- Im no expert on signs- i would buy that Mobil marine without any questions and so would about 9 out of 10 other people I meet at swap meets-used to be you only had to worry if a sign looked too good-thanks Don

Darrell, I would think the Olds sign would come from a time period that was prior to use of the PA abbreviation for Pennsylvania. The Post Office shortened all state abbreviations in 1963 to just two letters. Even then, it took a while to get the rest of society to use the new abbreviations.

Anything before made at before that date would have said Penna. to indicate Pennsylvaina.

I don't know the first thing about signs, but I do like cars. In 1960 Olds went to the "Rocket" logo and dropped their "circle the world"(my interperation of the logo). If Mark is right, and I think he is, the logo and the wording are wrong together on a sign. Hard for me to believe that GM and Olds would still be making signs 3 years after the logo change, but I have wrong so many times before. lol

Tom, Did you happen to get a picture of the 30" GMC truck sign also?? Has a more yellow background instead of the orange,I did not get a pic. So beware of those to. Heard 3 showed up there but only seen one which I was told was also returned.

I don't know the first thing about signs, but I do like cars. In 1960 Olds went to the "Rocket" logo and dropped their "circle the world"(my interperation of the logo). If Mark is right, and I think he is, the logo and the wording are wrong together on a sign. Hard for me to believe that GM and Olds would still be making signs 3 years after the logo change, but I have wrong so many times before. lol Not sure why this reply showed up twice, sorry.

Hi guys. Have been reading this thread and I was wondering. Is it possible that the original sellers of these signs don't k now they are fake. Is it possible they were duped as well? I didn't see (maybe I missed it) where people have talked to them to see what there side of the story is. I am not taking sides and wholeheartedly agree these signs need to be stopped. I looked up their ebay feedback and it is pretty good. Was j ust wondering if anyone had talked to them.

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AlexLooking for Texaco and Power Gasoline items

"I WANT TO KNOW HOW YOU THINK REPOS ARE COMING FROM HERE. WHO IS SAYING IT AND ABOUT WHOM??? YOU MUST BE AN OLD FART THAT HAS NOTHING BETTER TO DO THAN BASH PEOPLE'S AUCTIONS. YOU PEOPLE ARE WHAT'S WRONG WITH SIGN COLLECTING - YOU HAVE NOTHING BUT BAD THINGS TO SAY ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE'S STUFF, UNLESS OF COURSE, IT'S YOURS THEN IT'S THE BEST IN THE WORLD. DO NOT THREATEN ME, YOU ******* - YOU JUST DON'T KNOW WHO YOU ARE DEALING WITH."

Some "lady", huh? Talk about shooting the messenger!! They both have to know all these signs are repops!! (Old Gas zapped her exact terminology but let the record show that the filthy mouthed broad had the nerve to call me an a--hole.)

I have seen this guy set up in Minneapolis, & Brimfield Mass.....He also sets up in RoundTop Texas among other places.......I have seen & discussed his dealings & travels to India in person with him, however supposedly he buys nautical, vaseline glass, etc......i have asked him personnally if he gets these signs from India & the answer is always vague......like Thunder II says, they will never admit it as there reputation is on the line however i am 99% sure he's deeply involved, but to what extent i don't know ...I will say however i did buy 2 great 100% original signs from him in Brimfield 2 years ago, but that does not negate the fact he is the biggest dealer of these repos..... Mark & Pat who set up by the back door at Iowa gas have seen him in Round Top Texas with crates of this new stuff.... There were a couple of other guys who have been involved with these signs from India however they have not set up for a couple of years now but they could sure be involved as the signs appear to be made with the same process.......... Just keep the pressure on.......

What should worry the hobby is that these signs are very close to being undetectable. Would not be very hard to put a little work in to them with grommets and then they would concentrate on the reverse side. After that what happens????? Kind of scarey from an investment stand point.

I'm no lawyer but my bro is. I am going to talk to him and see if there is a way to file a legal complaint against someone who is doing this. Doesn't mean I will...I'm just curious. They have to know that these are fake signs if they are bringing them in from overseas and it seems like a lot of people are getting burned by them. If they are passing them off as real even though they are importing them and know they are not real then I would think that would have to be considered fraud.

Metro had a post entitled: "Fraud, fakes, repros...etc. In it is the email for Jeanne Bumpus, who I believe works for the FTC. I know I will be asking her to look long and hard at these people on ebay and direct her to this post. Maybe the FTC will do something if enough people contact them. Can't hurt. Nothing else seems to be working. As time goes by and prices keep climbing, repros are going to get better and better. Be nice to cut some of these people out of the loop.

Glad you guys that were there are watching each other's backs!! A couple of those signs look pretty good, some not so good; seems to me that the original Mobilgas pump plates that I've seen are dated in the lower r/h corner, the I/R stamp in the fake is in the lower point & BADLY centered & the back looks really bad!! Some of the other signs look badly "pitted" & the backside......?????? I saw the same kind of **** when I was dealing in vintage sports collectables, scum rears it's ugly head whenever there's a buck to be made!!!!!!!!!!! Ray, VERY glad you got your money back, you can now afford to buy me a bullet (or two) at Fred's!!!!!!

I don't if it is the same people are not, but I have seen two "questionable" looking people in an old crusty van (with Indiana plates) at a lot of the Goodguy's & NSRA events lately. They are not in the commercial vending area, but in the little bitty swap meet areas. They have been at Louisville, Columbus, Indy, Kalamazoo, etc. I bought a 24" Pennzoil & a 29" Phillips Ethyl from them about 2.5 years ago. I came back the next day and they had two more exactly like them. I asked them about it and they said they had "found" a case of them. Anyway, I accused them of selling repros then and tried to basically shove the signs up their you know what, but never got my money back. I sold the signs as repos later.

Those are 2 different people Seth...I know who you are talking about & they will be at upcoming Auburn & i see them at Carlisle, Hershey.....Those 2 are bad news & i believe they have split up.... now the tall one with the long black hair & gotee is traveling with his girlfriend...

Seth, Your talking of a different pair...I too have seen them in action also...A white van with 2 guys. 1 white, tall with pony tail and other is dark skin guy with long hair...They got run out of the streetrod nationals last year for selling repos!Repo mccoy pottery, repo paper junk and repo signs!The Cliffords are a middle aged couple and they know EXACTLY what they are doing!They buy containers full of repo glass, ship brass nautical repo junk and signs then bring them back to deliberately mislead everyone they come into contact with! They then mix it up with originals!I called the Monticello police dept to ask about a fraud charge possibility WITHOUT mentioning any names???They said YES YES YES, would gladly file fraud charges against anyone selling new reproduction signs as originals! Especially when the seller and/or importer knowingly had made to decieve and sell as originals!!! They chip them up and age them outside again to decieve!!!Anyone who has EVER bought from them either directly or indirectly, ebay or flea market needs to get together with a class action suit!!!I feel it's the ONLY way to stop them! They have made a ton of money off these repos and will probably use our own money to fight us!!!I bought a repo gargoyle several years ago and know for a fact cliffords brought them in!!! Along with the rca and esso elephant repos...ALL from India!!!~WHAT A SHAME~

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[This message has been edited by tomzcollectiblez (edited 08-06-2007).]

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Tom 219-778-3155signchaser@comcast.netLooking for early wolfshead signs and hoosier pete signs or globes