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Kyoko has the coolest weapon yet I have to say, depending on how long she lives, I could see her becoming one of my favorites, as I always like a psycho killer bitch, I really hope she stays unredeemable to fit into the context of this series' tone.

She's already my favorite. No dere-dere FTW.

As for unredeemable, I'm hoping her backstory is just full of complete evilness.

A great many people here have theories more complex than this. Hell, we've been arguing to keep things simple, such as that Kyube isn't evil, more amoral than anything else.

That's my point, actually. People are going way too deep about every single action characters take, when it is no-more than simple obvious conversation.

and as I said somewhere before, Kyuube might not be evil, but certainly not a favourable guy to rely on.

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Not without good reason.

Flags everywhere. Like imo violin kid who basically throwing bad aura all around. But we never know. This will never go in a good way, knowing what Sayaka said in the fourth episode during soliloquy.

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Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

However, Sayaka picks a fight with Kyouko because of her idea to protect people in general. That is different from what she wished for, and that is an entirely different matter that she has to prepare for.
In the meantime, the familiar is escaping and possibly harming other people. If Sayaka really cared about other people that much, she would have put her pride aside and went around Kyouko instead of wasting time trying to fight her. She is not committed to protecting the general public, despite what she says.

Another example of people going too 'DEEP' on 'SURFACE' elements. First, Sayaka attacked Kyouko, since Kyoko is selfish bitch. Nothing more than that. Also, trigger of fight was actually Kyoko anyway and someone actually had intention to kill was Kyoko. Someone who was supposed to be defeated from the first attack was Sayaka, not Kyoko. So your logics falls into the deaf ears.

Second, did Sayaka ever had a pride in any sort? It has been obvious she is 'hiding' all her true emotions under that 'fake display of pride' in order to make Madoka feel better.

Kyouko IS a selfish bitch. However, Sayaka still is in no position to lecture her. The Puella Magi fight in compensation for the desire granted through that wish. There is nothing that says they're supposed to be good civil servants protecting the people; that's just Sayaka trying to force her ideals on Kyouko. Protecting other lives, while noble, is beyond their normal call of duty.

Sayaka COULD have placed priority on getting to the familiar and focused on getting around or past Kyouko. However, Sayaka did not just, because Kyouko pissed her off, or as Kyubey puts it, she couldn't accept Kyouko. At this moment, she is more concerned about beating Kyouko than she is about keeping close pursuit on the familiar. It may be a natural reaction to pick a fight, but it still shows that her conviction to protect others for justice is not a top priority and that she's in way over her head.

Of course Sayaka is aware that she could die for her wish, but that just means she's prepared to kill Witches. However, living to protect every other life is a different and bigger cause than what she is prepared for.

Kyouko IS a selfish bitch. However, Sayaka still is in no position to lecture her. The Puella Magi fight in compensation for the desire granted through that wish. There is nothing that says they're supposed to be good civil servants protecting the people; that's just Sayaka trying to force her ideals on Kyouko. Protecting other lives, while noble, is beyond their normal call of duty.

You are not getting it. From what I remember, Sayaka never lectured. She never forced her ideal to Kyoko. She did not even say that she wanted to defeat kyoko. They just 'FOUGHT' and that's all that was presented. From that circumstance, only conclusion that can be made is Sayaka was fighting because KYOKO IS ANNOYING and IMMORAL. There is no other reason. For instance, if you see someone in front of you saying, 'it is good let people die lalala strongest survive! everyone can die!', you will want to punch him, regardless of who you are, not just puella magi or whatever heros.

You are not getting it. From what I remember, Sayaka never lectured. She never forced her ideal to Kyoko. She did not even say that she wanted to defeat kyoko. They just 'FOUGHT' and that's all that was presented. From that circumstance, only conclusion that can be made is Sayaka was fighting because KYOKO IS ANNOYING and IMMORAL. There is no other reason. For instance, if you see someone in front of you saying, 'it is good let people die lalala strongest survive! everyone can die!', you will want to punch him, regardless of who you are, not just puella magi or whatever heros.

That's pretty much what Kyouko says when she tells them that the familiar needs to get away just so it can destroy and devour some weak person in order to become a witch, just so she can fight the witch and harvest the grief seed.
Thus, it's only natural to want to kick her butt. I'd be quite disturbed even about anyone who didn't want to kick her butt after that speech.

How good is this new series? I am quite interested in getting hooked on something new.

You probably shouldn't have went onto this thread to ask that since you'd risk spoiling youself.

I'd say Madoka is one of the best shows this season. It has an incredible soundtrack (Kajiura Yuki), creativity with its universe, an original and engaging plot, and its one of those shows that stir up an insane amount of discussions, theories, and fanart. Give it three episodes and you'll be hooked.

Location: I've moved around the American West. I've lived in Oregon, Washington, Utah, and Oklahoma

Age: 36

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Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

Kyouko IS a selfish bitch. However, Sayaka still is in no position to lecture her. The Puella Magi fight in compensation for the desire granted through that wish. There is nothing that says they're supposed to be good civil servants protecting the people; that's just Sayaka trying to force her ideals on Kyouko. Protecting other lives, while noble, is beyond their normal call of duty.

Sayaka COULD have placed priority on getting to the familiar and focused on getting around or past Kyouko. However, Sayaka did not just, because Kyouko pissed her off, or as Kyubey puts it, she couldn't accept Kyouko. At this moment, she is more concerned about beating Kyouko than she is about keeping close pursuit on the familiar. It may be a natural reaction to pick a fight, but it still shows that her conviction to protect others for justice is not a top priority and that she's in way over her head.

Of course Sayaka is aware that she could die for her wish, but that just means she's prepared to kill Witches. However, living to protect every other life is a different and bigger cause than what she is prepared for.

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Originally Posted by applejuice

You are not getting it. From what I remember, Sayaka never lectured. She never forced her ideal to Kyoko. She did not even say that she wanted to defeat kyoko. They just 'FOUGHT' and that's all that was presented. From that circumstance, only conclusion that can be made is Sayaka was fighting because KYOKO IS ANNOYING and IMMORAL. There is no other reason. For instance, if you see someone in front of you saying, 'it is good let people die lalala strongest survive! everyone can die!', you will want to punch him, regardless of who you are, not just puella magi or whatever heros.

Going deep into is utterly meaningless.

What?

Sayaka is fighting Kyoko because Kyoko won't let Sayaka kill the familiar. Kyoko wants to let the familiar kill a person first, become a witch, and then harvest that witch for a grief seed.

And Sayaka is the selfish one imposing her morals on Kyoko?

What?

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Cross Game - A Story of Love, Life, Death - and Baseball. What more could you want?

Sayaka is fighting Kyoko because Kyoko won't let Sayaka kill the familiar. Kyoko wants to let the familiar kill a person first, become a witch, and then harvest that witch for a grief seed.

And Sayaka is the selfish one imposing her morals on Kyoko?

What?

That remains to be seen. Like I said, Sayaka could always fall back and go around Kyoko, or at least she could attempt to run past Kyoko during their fight. However, Sayaka wants to fight Kyoko because she's uncaring and it annoys the hell out of her. Beating Kyoko is a priority for Sayaka.

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Originally Posted by Sackett

And Sayaka is the selfish one imposing her morals on Kyoko?

What?

What? You make it sound like there can only be one selfish person between them. The point is, there are ways around that fight. Sayaka didn't make an effort to get past Kyoko any way possible and instead intended to fight her to win all the way through. Sayaka didn't see Kyoko just as an obstacle to getting to the familiar but as an enemy who opposes her ideals. There IS a difference. Sayaka is not prepared to protect everyone.

How good is this new series? I am quite interested in getting hooked on something new.

My opinion? Hands the best show of the season, which isn't something I throw around lightly. Not only are the writing, visuals, and music high quality but what I like the most is that it's one of those titles that brings everyone together for speculations and discussions, which is always a plus.

How good is this new series? I am quite interested in getting hooked on something new.

Depends on your taste but it's my current favorite for this season and it's currently the favorite of the majority too. Yeah give it a try and marathon this series. You might find yourself glued to your pc searching the net for all sorts of madoka related articles after watching this.

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Homura: Die monster! You don't belong in this world!
Kyubey: It was not by my hand that I am once again given flesh. I was called here by humans who wish to pay me tribute.
Homura: Tribute? You steal girls' souls, and make them your slaves!
Kyubey: Perhaps the same could be said of all religions.
Homura: Your words are as empty as your soul! Lolis ill-needs a savior such as you!
Kyubey: What is a loli? A miserable little pile of moe! But enough talk...have at you!

For instance, if you see someone in front of you saying, 'it is good let people die lalala strongest survive! everyone can die!', you will want to punch him, regardless of who you are, not just puella magi or whatever heros.

Going deep into is utterly meaningless.

You forgot one thing,because of the screwed up system if you don't let others die then you might be the one dying,or at least something quite bad will happen to you.

If you kill off all familiars,no more witches,no more witches means no more grief seeds,no more grief seeds means you can't purify your egg anymore and whatever bad thing that happens when it goes all black will happen to you.

You guys analyzed too much about Sayaka's actions. She is the kind of character acting before thinking. She is just pissed off by Kyoko. She gets too much more emotions than she can hold so she wants to throw her emotions at the most convenient target. Similar to demanding Houmura to return the grief seed at the end of ep 3. You may judge right and wrong at given circumstances, but it certainly is not rational.

If you kill off all familiars,no more witches,no more witches means no more grief seeds,no more grief seeds means you can't purify your egg anymore and whatever bad thing that happens when it goes all black will happen to you.

While we know witches can grow from familiars, we don't know that familiars are the only source of witches since all the familiars we have seen are already minions of existing witches.

I must say madoka magica did change my concept about mahou shoujo based animes.

It have not changed that much to me. What it have done for me is to show a possible path that the genre can take. If the whole series deliver in the way some fans expect from Uroboshi when it will be complete, it might be compared to the revolution that the Spaghetti Western have been to the Western genre. Otherwise it could be another bunny hop from another series that have been hold back by the small hesitation that have made it play safe when it could have done a giant leap.

You guys analyzed too much about Sayaka's actions. She is the kind of character acting before thinking. She is just pissed off by Kyoko. She gets too much more emotions than she can hold so she wants to throw her emotions at the most convenient target. Similar to demanding Houmura to return the grief seed at the end of ep 3. You may judge right and wrong at given circumstances, but it certainly is not rational.

That's what I wanted to say at the start. Thanks.

Just because this series has tons of Faust reference, it doesn't mean we should analyse the most normal reactions.

I loved the cafe sequence between Homura and Madoka, between the incidental music and Homura telling Madoka to give up on Sayaka that was an excellent moment.

When Kamijo was presented with his violin, I was kind of expecting him to not be able to play, in that twisted monkey's paw fashion. Although as it is, Sayaka's wish didn't seem to cover his legs, so maybe he'll not be able to walk properly again.

Is it me, or was the bit where Kyubey looms up at Madoka and we get the patented SHAFT eyeball zoom-in sequence just creepy or what? Especially as Madoka appearing 'in' Kyubey's eye has a certain symmetry with the end title sequence.

So, the big fight, and the difference in attitude between Sayaka and Kyoko - while Sayaka made a wish to help someone else and sees herself as defender of the city, Kyoko's attitude is much more selfish, and it wouldn't surprise me if her wish was a selfish one. She'll quite happily let people die to turn a familiar into a witch so she can score more grief seeds. As she says, it's the food chain.

And Homura appears just in the nick of time to prevent Madoka doing something rash, despite further temptation from our favourite furball.