Biting the hand of Project Fear

Obama’s slam a ding dong

It’s such a shame for those poor Tories and Ukippers who want the UK to leave the EU. There they were twenty two months or so ago, all happy that Barack Obama had intervened in the Scottish independence referendum to tell those uppity Jocks to get back in their shortbreid tin and to close the lid behind them. It was a statesmanlike intervention on a matter of international security, they sagely nodded. Only now he’s intervened in the UK Brexit debate, and all of a sudden they’ve discovered that it’s really not on for a foreign head of state to interfere in an internal UK matter. To which any self-respecting supporter of Scottish independence can only say: ha ha ha, get it right up yese.

Obama thinks that Britain leaving the EU would be an act of self-harm on a par with David Coburn sticking a fork into his inefficient EU approved toaster in an effort to howk out some breid that was sufficiently brown. Although a Brexit wouldn’t have the same comedy potential. I’m just being honest, said Obama, in what was something of a departure for an American politician, as he slapped down Boris Johnson, Michael Gove, Liam Fox and Nigel Farage.

Barack Obama hasn’t just intervened in the Brexit debate, he’s not just weighed in with a shovel. He’s weighed in with a JCB. He’s delivered a strong statement that if the UK wants to leave the EU then the USA will relegate it to the back of the queue when it comes to negotiating a trade deal. Only Americans don’t use the word queue, they stand in line. And a post-Brexit Britain will be standing in line with Bolivia, Belarus, and Bhutan waiting for the USA to get around to allowing us to import Hershey bars. Although why anyone would want to import Hershey bars is a bit of a mystery, because Americans don’t just not use the word queue, they also make some seriously boggin chocolate. Be that as as it may, there will be no Hershey bars, Oreos, Twinkies or Cheerios for a post-Brexit Britain. Well there will, but you got the man’s drift. Brexit bad, very very bad.

When Obama intervened in the Scottish independence debate his comments were nowhere near as strong. He only weighed in with the silver spoon that was in Davie Cameron’s gob when he was born, not a piece of motorised earth moving equipment. And he only did that after Davie pressed the spoon on him telling him what a lovely spoon it was and begged him to use the spoon. Because if Scotland were to have marched off, Davie would have risked losing his spoon entirely.

Obama clearly didn’t give much of a toss one way or the other, because what he was was the absolute minimum you’d need to say no to further upset a host who was clearly in some distress. He didn’t say that Scotland would be cast out into the utter Bolivianness. He said words to the effect that he’d prefer the UK to remain united, and then spent more time and energy speaking out against the UK leaving the European Union. It was obvious even then which of the two scenarios he cared more about. The United States would find it a lot easier to accommodate an independent Scotland that wanted to be an active and willing participant in international organisations than it would a UK that wanted to exist in a pouty xenophobic huff in glorious isolation.

As we all know, it later transpired that the US president had only said anything at all about the Scottish independence referendum because he’d been prevailed upon to do so by a desperate Davie Cameron. On the other hand it’s pretty clear that Obama’s opinions about Britain remaining within the EU are his own, not his host’s. Otherwise he’d probably have kept his gob shut in order to avoid pissing off Liz and Phil, who according to the Sun are in favour of a Brexit. Which is a peculiar stance for a German and a Greek to take, but still.

It’s unlikely that people are going to be swayed in their view on how to vote in June by what the American president says. But it’s still funny to watch the discomfort of Tories and neo-conservative Little Britons who were quite happy for him to intervene when he was on the same side as them during the Scottish independence referendum but now they’re upset because he doesn’t share their opinion on Europe and are discovering that their so-called special relationship with America isn’t really that special after all. The USA only has a special relationship with the UK in as much as the UK does the USA’s bidding, and the USA sees its interests being best served by a UK that’s a member of the EU.

The only people who ever speak about a special relationship between the USA and the UK are British politicians. It doesn’t even figure on the radar of the average American, most of whom are not of British descent and have no particular emotional or historical ties to the UK. The idea that Britain can leave the EU and form some sort of close relationship to the USA is a fantasy. No one in America is interested. On the rare occasions that the UK impinges on the consciousness of the average American, they think of bad teeth, royalty, and driving on the wrong side of the road. And if you’re Scottish they don’t even think that you share a common language, because as I discovered to my chagrin You. Can. Talk. To. An. American. Like. This. But they’re still going to think that you’re speaking German.

For the USA the value of the UK is as a part of a strong and united Europe. That’s what they’re concerned about, and a UK which left the EU would result in a weaker Europe and a weaker UK. But they don’t care that much whether that united Europe consists of the current 28 member states, or if it increases to 29 with the addition of an independent Scotland, as long as it stays united.

But then if the UK does leave the EU, then Scotland may very well accede to the EU as an independent state in its own right. And the USA will be quite happy with that, at least.

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Been up having a midnight wander and watching the news reports. This one has had the same impact as the Chicxulub asteroid. Its leading every news item and the orchestration involved is a sight to behold. This may be Obama’s last visit to the UK as Pres., but its going to be the one he’s most remembered for. So looking forward to the frothing of the right of right meeja.

You can smell the righteous indignation from here. At least I think that’s what it is.

Also catching upon the BAE story. Its not looking good for those folks.

Feeling for the workers, but as for the unions and politicians who fed them a line during the referendum? I hope they’re sweating right now and that’s about all I trust myself to say about their actions and statements during that period.

What right has that arrogant, useless war criminal Obama to intervene in the question of Scottish independence or the question of the so-called United Kingdom gettiing out from under the control of the totally corrupt, unelected and undemocratic EUSSR?

Haven’t the Americans done enough damage over the years with their invading, annexing, corrupting and exploiting countries all over the world, and murdering literally millions and millions of innocent people? Their own country is probably the most corrupt in the world, as are their politicians and corporations. Their country is so corrupt that their corporations can not only buy their politicians, but they can also buy their own president. Even the likes of Hillary Clinton has been bought and paid for.

Even within their own states they have the likes of the state of Hawaii which “obtained” their status thanks to the “bayonet constitution”, i.e. it was literally forced on the native Hawaiians at the point of a bayonet. They obviously do not believe in the right to self determination or basic democracy.

A corrupt country, run by crooks and war criminals, has no right to intervene in anything to do with or affecting Scotland. The Scottish people have no wish to be bullied by thugs, crooks, war criminals and murderers, and we need them like we need a hole in the head.

As far as I am concerned, Obama can get stuffed and head back to that symbol of American corruption, i.e. Chicago, and start minding his own bloody business.

agreed the most dangerous Nation on the Planet , I am with you Paul about American Chocolate even their cakes are a strange experience ,and dont mention the fruit gigantic and totally tasteless just about sums up a lot of their culture , then again i have met some of the nicest most generous people i have ever come across , mixed in with the loudest arseholes on the planet , their TSA and Immigration are like Nazies on steroids the best way is to shut up and follow their bizarre orders not requests orders ,most of them are totally oblivious to anything outside the States they dont have to everything they need is the good old USA .
I am glad you highlighted the difference in emphasis between Obama’s two interventions in UK politics his comments on Scottish Independence have become clearer it now appears it was a backhanded remark meant to rebuke Cameron rather than support him , subtle stuff this diplomacy game Eh .

But, jdman, as Lord Carmichael of Portsmouth said at the time, if we voted Yes, then the South England yard would be ‘best placed’ to build the much vaunted frigates.
Looks like they’re going to Barrow on Furness now.
Perhaps the Scottish shipbuilders can be retrained to assess the tax returns of the SE Hierarchy in the brand new Crawley hub?
I’m sure the Joseph Rowantree Fund would stump up for the retraining programme.
I have no capacity to forgive this parcel of rogues, ever.

yes Jack sad but correct in every respect every line of the VOW broken every promise reneged on Labour polititions reward for all to see “Ermin” in the House of Crooks and con men bought and sold comes to mind for doing Tory dirty work well done lads you played a blinder .

Oh they’ve got skins like a rhino when it comes to politics right enough, but going face to face with the folk they’ve mislead? They’re no so hot on that.

I see that Kezia was attempting to blame it all on the tories on twitter last night. Apparently the FM set her straight on who was doing all the ‘better thigither’ campaigning in the yards. Who made all the threats, all the promises. I believe the phrase is TELT!

Labour and the unions it was who first convinced that workforce that independence would see them out of a job. Labour it was who promised job security if only they would vote the ‘right way’. Labour who sold them into the hands of current and future Tory government. This isn’t even up for debate, its a matter of very public record along with photo shoots, campaign material and public statements. For Labour to even attempt to squirm out from under their share of responsibility is beyond contemptible.

In any other country in the World Labour would be ridiculed and drummed out of town held to account for bare faced lying . I won’t even bother looking on any MSM outlet for the link between Labour and the VOW -PPI- Parliament building fiasco- Edinburgh trams debacle , I could be here all day listing this lots incompetence and misuse of public funds , and they have the brass neck to criticise everyone else it really defies description they way these clowns have been protected .A free unbiased critical media in this country my arse ,

“Being Scottish is a state of mind”.
None of them have a state of mind.
Their deception, lack of decency and lack of integrity means they cannot feel remorse or shame, IMHO. Too caught up in their own selfishness and phoney world view.

Sorry Paul, usually love your stuff but you don’t seem to have noticed that Barack Obama has precisely eight months left in office. If the UK votes to leave the EU that will take place during the next president’s term. The Americans didn’t invent the term ‘lame duck’ for nothing. Barack Obama’s views on the UK’s membership of the EU are as relevant as Slab’s views on Trident renewal.

No head of state would get in front of the cameras and fire off that salvo without a great deal of forward thought, discussion and orchestration taking place.In a biz where every word uttered is monitored for meaning, geopolitics takes your average press release to whole new levels of ‘watch what you say’.

Brian,
does that mean that if the UK votes Brexit, and since Scotland voted as instructed by the US President to vote No in the referendum, we would jump to the top of the league above the rest of the UK as we complied with their wishes?
This would protect our industries then.
So every cloud has a silver lining!

I sometimes wonder if Davie is a closet Brexiteer. Why else would he ask an American president, lame duck or not, to threaten England on the dangers of leaving Europe? Live prime time TV too. It’s like a red rag to a bull, Davie knows that. The reaction in the right wing media is entirely predictable.

Yes, the scam could backfire. The Leave- Englanders could latch onto that. Obama was actually patronizing! The Englanders in crisis amid windsorian adulation cannot see it. But he issued a “threat”. Leave the EU and you’ll be at the back of the queue!
Sounds like Project Fear 1 in 2014.
But. Obama will soon no longer be president
I wonder what Trump thinks about the Englanders?
Irrespective of how the English vote, it will lead to a crisis dahn sath. When the Elizabethan II monarchy is no more, one can only speculate. As the generation of WWWII, tail end imperial UK and national service, survivors of WWWII move on, what then for Ruritania and the Scottish version Balmoraliry and Brigadoonism?
Does it turn in on itself and accuse those of wanting Indyref2 north of the Tweed seditious? Accuse us of disloyalty to the Crown? Perfidious Westminster, Commons and Lords know no bounds. Beware the squeaks from the yoonie MPs and the howls from the Scots “Lords”. They fear “repatriation”.

i wonder if the result on the EU referendum might be a surprise? Catching the occasional snippet of the hoi polloi on various programmes, the brexit lot are certainly vocal in their displeasure.

I for one, as the good soldier svejk, will be voting to remain, but paradoxically do however wish the uk votes to leave, as this should speed the cause of independence along a fair bit.

I am however also reminded of the state of Slovenia, which has had 20 something political iterations in the 20th century alone. I got the feeling after reading about the fascists, the communists etc. blah blah blah that the populace didnt give a shit. Maybe we would do well to have the perspective of Ecclesiastes 1 (2-12)

Obama had the floor! What he delivered, ironically during the sycophantic antics of windsorian backslapping, was a back handed complement to the Westminster onlookers. “You are feeble; your place in the world is minor; ironic that you need me to bolster your PM, I, the president of a country that freed itself from Westminster with the aid of the Bourbon French!
He really delivered the coup-de grâce to the English. The msm see it as a “victory” for the Remain, but it may backfire. It put the England dominated UK in its place. Where ‘s your EVEL now?
I found his comments patronizing, condescending and insulting as well. And I have ” sympathy” with the Brexiters. Engxit is OK for them; roll on Scotxit from the UK!
What is actually happening is a crisis of English identity dahn sath. Obama just smiled and lobbed a grenade into its pretentious sense of entitlement amidst the antics of windsorama.

What is the point of leaving the UK, claiming independence then joining the EU, which is becoming more and more dominant every year? It is noticeable how every word Angela Merkel utters is taken very, very seriously and her opinion is paramount

Yes the “special relationship” is a lie built on a convenience cobbled together during WWII, when America’s military forces were even fewer than the combined services in the United Kingdom and FDR needed Britain’s support. Since then, the term “special relationship” has been used to excuse any and all fawnings by various British Prime Ministers over various US Presidents and by various US Presidents to get us to join in with whatever military excursion they want to drag us into. If you mention the special relationship to the average American they’ll say “you what, pal?” or the American equivalent.

If a Brexit means that we’ll no longer be forced into any US-driven trade agreements I might even be persuaded to switch to Out, but for the fact that I don’t want to be living on a bunch of rocks with the Tories throwing even more of their weight about. Plus, do we want to be prey to the likes of Clinton, or – heavens forfend – Trump – if we’re dragged out of Europe? Even just the thought makes me break out in hives and fear for the future.

Stop TTIP in its tracks, that’s the trick. And Obama is irrelevant, seeing that he’s a lame duck.

France is America’s oldest ally. The Bourbon French aided the Americans to fight the British after 1776 declaration of independence. The statue of liberty was a gift of the French to the Americans in the 19th century. The speshal relashonship is a myth. It is invoked to makeUK PMs feel important when they are “punching above their weight” or may be it is below the belt. It all stems from Churchill and his mother was American.
Anyway, Obama’s words were a threat; he socked it to Dave in front of him. Put Dave in his lowly place.

Also remember, France gave the Americans all their gold to look after during WW2, after the war when the French asked for it back the Americans laughed and sent them packing, that’s how you treat your oldest ally.

Usually when a foreign head of state comes, he/ she usually.spends some dosh to buy a few token weapons from the lesser country. Nothing from Obama.
It was just to send the signal to the whole Westminster establishment know your place you Ruritanian English! If you do leave the EU, get in line at the back! Priceless. The Remain daw it ad a rebuke to the Brexiters, it was actually an open threat to the Westminster-Windsorian establishment. They were so bedazzled with their sense of importance and flummery, they did not pick up the signals

Obama’s just jealous that a UK outside the EU would have even more time to spend on historical celebrations, thus showing how a vibrant, thrusting services economy can turn itself into a Ye Olde Theme Parke better than a shower of foreigners. We should be celebrating the 270th anniversary of Culloden and the 170th anniversary of the Potato Famine shortly. Looking forward to the pageantry already.

Call me a cynic, but could Obama’s comments not be more about what he’ll do after he leaves office? If he is looking for another position on the world stage, the support of the European leaders will come in quite handy.

The fall out from Obama’s intervention or support for Cameron has just hit the Torygraph. Heffer has an article today on Cameron’s lies digging his own political grave! Heffer fulminates against Cameron from the angle of a Tory insider. It sounds more like an attack by an opposition party member; I suppose that is what the Tory brexiters in the party really are! Great stuff! What a shambles! WONDER what “wonder gurl” Ruth thinks about the EU debate? I imagine her claim to want to be the main opposition would extend to being agin Cameron too! If about 150 Tory MPs are likely to vote against the EU, how many candidates in the branch party are agin as well? I would imagine Jackie Bird will put that to Ruth now that she has managed to dismount from the buffalo. BBC Scotland is known for its incisive probing questions when interviewing Ruth.

The biggest mistake that “Better together” ever made was to allow Scottish Labour to be in charge. It’s irrational hatred of the SNP coupled with simpleton logic, proved to be a toxic mix. It fatally undermined the union. It badly damaged the status of the No parties. It also drove away almost half of its vote as it abandoned its label as the Party of Home rule for the party of No.

They have not even begun to process any of this. To look at them, you’d think that last May never happened at all, and even if it did, it meant nothing. This smacks of arrogance as well as knuckle dragging stupidity. Its this that makes them look unelectable in my opinion.

My perfect post election day is sitting in my favorite coffee shop before going to work, then reading about the resignations of Dugdale, Davidson and Wee Wullie. I’ll smile, fold the paper and that will be the last I ever think about them.