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ALC System replacement top 5 reasons

I have a customer with an ALC system that they are interested in replacing. The system consist of WebCtrl, some LGE's, several UNI's (which I have heard are obsolete), and a bunch of U-line VAV controllers. I need some good solid reasons they should replace it all, here is what I have so far:

1) They are shackled and chained to ALC for parts and service.
2) The UNI's are obsolete and very low inventory exists, the UNI's hold all the programming for the U-line VAV controllers, so if and when the UNI dies they will lose communication and control of the attached VAV's.
3)....
4)....
5)....

Anyone ALC knowledgeable that can expand on the limitations and downfalls of the current system?

1) They are shackled and chained to ALC for parts and service.
2) The UNI's are obsolete and very low inventory exists, the UNI's hold all the programming for the U-line VAV controllers, so if and when the UNI dies they will lose communication and control of the attached VAV's.
3)....They are shackled and chained to ALC for parts and service.
4)....They are shackled and chained to ALC for parts and service.
5)....They are shackled and chained to ALC for parts and service.

Can somebody tell me if the ALC field devices are really truly MSTP over RS485 ... somebody told me it was BacNet over ArcNet or something like that....I mean, can one take a normal MSTP controller from another company and pop it on the same segment of wire as the other ALC controllers?

...if this isnt possible then it would be a deal-breaker for me...rip it out. put in some thing truly 'open'

No you can not add a BACnet/MSTP device to a BACnet/ARC156 network. Now you can configure an ALC controller to be MSTP and place it on another vendors MSTP segment, but not the other way around.

kontrol out

PS. Going to be back home over the holidays, any chance your going to be on the Gold Coast late Dec / early Jan?

"Open is as open does." - Forrest Gump"Can't we all just get a Lon?" - Garry Jack "BACnet: integration or interrogation?" - The Janitor"Open protocols? You can't handle open protocols!" - Nathan R. Jessup“What’s that? Aaa… open protocols? Don’t talk about…. open protocols? Are you kidding me? Open protocols? I just hope we can hardwire an interface!” - Jim Mora http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7fjDS0jKiE

1) They are shackled and chained to ALC for parts and service.
2) The UNI's are obsolete and very low inventory exists, the UNI's hold all the programming for the U-line VAV controllers, so if and when the UNI dies they will lose communication and control of the attached VAV's.
3)....They are shackled and chained to ALC for parts and service.
4)....They are shackled and chained to ALC for parts and service.
5)....They are shackled and chained to ALC for parts and service.

Can somebody tell me if the ALC field devices are really truly MSTP over RS485 ... somebody told me it was BacNet over ArcNet or something like that....I mean, can one take a normal MSTP controller from another company and pop it on the same segment of wire as the other ALC controllers?

...if this isnt possible then it would be a deal-breaker for me...rip it out. put in some thing truly 'open'

The U-line driver for the AMR is soon to be released, and ZN emulation driver just works. Or you can program and download the ZN and hang it right on the bus.
With a move of a jumper and flip of a switch your argument is gone.

KP, I've got to disagree with you buddy. I have 5 RTU's using Viconics master stat and Viconics zone thermostats all hanging on a WebCtrl front end. All very visible and setpoint editable (Is that a word?). Yes, I did have to change all of the ALC controllers from ARCnet (Which is ALC specific) to MSTP, but no big deal.
Also, to the OP, ALC parts are readily availible on the internet at sites such as e-bay. ALC dealers don't like it, but they are out there.

I have an old customer that is getting a state grant and they think they want to replace every controller in every school with ALC. What advice can I give them? I would much rather see them go with AX and possibly the new EasyIO FG controllers even if it's not me doing the job.

Fair enough KP. I was just trying to point out that it was possible to add other vendors to a WebCtrl system.
Chad, I have a job with Niagara AX and Spyder that is doing just fine. My only complaint is that the customer and other control companies are locked out of the logic programming.
Now... I'll take some heat for this... Most control companies protect their interest in their customers by NOT letting others do any programming at all. They protect their logic. They protect their graphics. The big problem with that is that sometimes, someone will have a better way to complete the control sequence on a piece of equipment or build a better graphic page for a job. It should also be easy to add a physical point to a job and the logic without having to necessarily go back to the installing contractor. This should include other contractors and include the customer, who the has to pay big bucks to have the contractor back. Often the control guy's ego gets in the way and he refuses to implement these changes.
ALC WebCtrl comes with all necessary programs to do whatever you want to tweak programming and/or graphic pages as long as you have an administrative password, which the customer should insist on at install. As far as I know, Web Pro AX does not come with the Niagara package.