Do Men have the right to a "financial abortion" - Think Atheist2018-05-24T19:58:20Zhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/forum/topics/do-men-have-the-right-to-a-financial-abortion?commentId=1982180%3AComment%3A1315430&xg_source=activity&feed=yes&xn_auth=noThe problem with viewing mora…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-05-23:1982180:Comment:13168332013-05-23T16:43:03.681ZUnseenhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/Unseen
<p>The problem with viewing morality as social engineering is that morality is personal, not social. While thinkers try to impose a social purpose on it, if I were a woman who decides to abort an unintended accidental conception, I don't do it for social reasons, even though it may have social ramifications positive or negative. I do it for personal reasons such as, while I saw the male as a desirable sex partner I don't see him as a potential father, or I need to get my degree and establish…</p>
<p>The problem with viewing morality as social engineering is that morality is personal, not social. While thinkers try to impose a social purpose on it, if I were a woman who decides to abort an unintended accidental conception, I don't do it for social reasons, even though it may have social ramifications positive or negative. I do it for personal reasons such as, while I saw the male as a desirable sex partner I don't see him as a potential father, or I need to get my degree and establish some basic income before I take on the responsibilities of parenthood, or pregnancy would just be a major inconvenience. No social considerations at all. </p>
<p>We simply rarely think of the morality of our actions in terms of social engineering and it's the realm of personal morality that all but political moral decisions are made.</p> Unseen. Just to clarify . I f…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-05-23:1982180:Comment:13170142013-05-23T15:34:10.713ZRocky johnhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/Rockyjohn
<p>Unseen. Just to clarify . I feel you are looking at morality back to front. As yes we can define a moral system into existence without consideration of its purpose. But then it becomes little more than abstract nonsense." Morality, as generally understood, is a prescriptive code of behavior (dos and don'ts)" This may technically be true but without a purpose it is meaningless. It would be like describing a language as a formal system of signs governed by grammatical rules of combination…</p>
<p>Unseen. Just to clarify . I feel you are looking at morality back to front. As yes we can define a moral system into existence without consideration of its purpose. But then it becomes little more than abstract nonsense." Morality, as generally understood, is a prescriptive code of behavior (dos and don'ts)" This may technically be true but without a purpose it is meaningless. It would be like describing a language as a formal system of signs governed by grammatical rules of combination and then creating a new language without any consideration that the purpose of a language is to convey meaning . And likewise a language that did not convey meaning would just be abstract nonsense .</p>
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<p>"Who are the engineers?"- originally evolution "engineered" it. but humans have the intelligence and capacity to re-engineer it ourselves now and have been doing so for thousands of years.</p> I honestly dont see how you c…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-05-23:1982180:Comment:13167372013-05-23T13:15:54.883ZUnseenhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/Unseen
<p><em><strong>I honestly dont see how you can say morality is not a system of social engineering as our moral ability has evolved specifically as a way to modify or restrain our bahaviors so as to make social living worth while. </strong></em></p>
<p>Who are the engineers?</p>
<p><em><strong>I honestly dont see how you can say morality is not a system of social engineering as our moral ability has evolved specifically as a way to modify or restrain our bahaviors so as to make social living worth while. </strong></em></p>
<p>Who are the engineers?</p> Unseen- i was not talking abo…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-05-23:1982180:Comment:13168982013-05-23T11:36:22.719ZRocky johnhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/Rockyjohn
<p>Unseen- i was not talking about what morality is but instead of what use is morality.</p>
<p>I honestly dont see how you can say morality is not a system of social engineering as our moral ability has evolved specifically as a way to modify or restrain our bahaviors so as to make social living worth while. Without moralityi dontsee any way that we could have ever engineered a working society in the first place. if every one just did what they wanted when they wanted there would be no…</p>
<p>Unseen- i was not talking about what morality is but instead of what use is morality.</p>
<p>I honestly dont see how you can say morality is not a system of social engineering as our moral ability has evolved specifically as a way to modify or restrain our bahaviors so as to make social living worth while. Without moralityi dontsee any way that we could have ever engineered a working society in the first place. if every one just did what they wanted when they wanted there would be no such thing as society . If anything morality is not a system of social engineering. It is THE system of social engineering.</p>
<p></p> Tom- lets swap the issue slig…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-05-23:1982180:Comment:13166762013-05-23T10:54:01.761ZRocky johnhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/Rockyjohn
<p>Tom- lets swap the issue slightly to womans rights in the middle east . Should we not try and put any pressure at all on them to embrace woman as being equal to men because it is only a "dream" and the reality is they are often treated like second class citizens there?</p>
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<p>If we took your attitude then society would never change.</p>
<p>Tom- lets swap the issue slightly to womans rights in the middle east . Should we not try and put any pressure at all on them to embrace woman as being equal to men because it is only a "dream" and the reality is they are often treated like second class citizens there?</p>
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<p>If we took your attitude then society would never change.</p> All two-letter words are immo…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-05-23:1982180:Comment:13165152013-05-23T00:01:23.994ZTom Sarbeckhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/TomSarbeck
<p>All two-letter words are immoral.</p>
<p><em>It</em> is a two-letter word.</p>
<p>QED.</p>
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<p>All two-letter words are immoral.</p>
<p><em>It</em> is a two-letter word.</p>
<p>QED.</p>
<p></p> Morality, as generally unders…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-05-22:1982180:Comment:13162172013-05-22T21:19:35.508ZUnseenhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/Unseen
<p>Morality, as generally understood, is a prescriptive code of behavior (dos and don'ts) not a system of social engineering. Conceivably, obeying the prescriptions of the code might actually be deleterious to society. Now, for example, while "Do undo others as you would have them do unto you" sounds good, but suppose I'm a masochist who enjoys being humiliated and spanked? </p>
<p>Morality, as generally understood, is a prescriptive code of behavior (dos and don'ts) not a system of social engineering. Conceivably, obeying the prescriptions of the code might actually be deleterious to society. Now, for example, while "Do undo others as you would have them do unto you" sounds good, but suppose I'm a masochist who enjoys being humiliated and spanked? </p> Rocky, do you know what you'r…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-05-22:1982180:Comment:13164162013-05-22T20:28:09.368ZTom Sarbeckhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/TomSarbeck
<p>Rocky, do you know what you're saying?</p>
<p>You want dreams, your dreams, to influence other people more than their realities.</p>
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<p>Rocky, do you know what you're saying?</p>
<p>You want dreams, your dreams, to influence other people more than their realities.</p>
<p></p> Unseen. What is morality if n…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-05-22:1982180:Comment:13162082013-05-22T17:36:27.837ZRocky johnhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/Rockyjohn
<p>Unseen. What is morality if not a tool to create the type of society we think is best? Now i know neither one of us wants a society where abortions are illegal. But then i would also rather see a society where people understood about safe sex and took proper precautions than one where the opposite is most common. Would you also agree on this?</p>
<p>Unseen. What is morality if not a tool to create the type of society we think is best? Now i know neither one of us wants a society where abortions are illegal. But then i would also rather see a society where people understood about safe sex and took proper precautions than one where the opposite is most common. Would you also agree on this?</p> Good vs Bad is not a morality…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-05-22:1982180:Comment:13161592013-05-22T16:57:11.027ZStregahttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/MzStrega
<p>Good vs Bad is not a morality issue. In this circumstance, I don't see the relevance. Self-harming is bad, but I wouldn't call it immoral.</p>
<p>Good vs Bad is not a morality issue. In this circumstance, I don't see the relevance. Self-harming is bad, but I wouldn't call it immoral.</p>