Well their is some updated DVR news. We get the top twenty for live plus 7, but unfortunately the advertisers pay absolutely nothing for live plus 7, they are primarily interested in live plus same day and some also pay for live plus 3 day.

Well they have finally released some live plus three data and it is terrible (and not just for TAR but for every single show). The report not only those that watch the shows up to 3 days later but who watch the commercials and that is vitally important because if commercials aren't watch advertiser wont pay for extra based on those viewers.

Well for those that watch from the 2nd to 3rd day there was less then 1% that actually watched commercials. Meaning those live plus 3 ratings are worthless. And be extension the studios well never (based on that data) convince teh ad men to pay for live plus seven ratings. So no matter how many more viewers any show you enjoy gets from the next day on from DVR's is absolutely worthless in determining if a studio will keep that show. In fact I wouldn't be surprised now to see ad men wanting to kill the live plus same day (so that DVR use up to 3 am counts for ratings and ad revenue) and go back to strictly live ratings.

And with that out of the way, here is the DVR ratings for episode # 2.

On shows with the largest gain in total audience AR scored 13th (up from 20th the week before).

Persons live (when it aired) 9.912Persons live plus same day (normal rating) 10.999 millionPersons live plus 7 days: 11.548 million

So 1.087 million people watched TAR Sunday night after it aired but before 3am on DVR's.

ANd from 3am Monday morning to next Sunday another .549 million people (who ad men don't care a rats ass about watched). So at least the good news is the bulk of the DVR use is in the first 5 hours after the show airs And does count for ad revenue.

CBS shows that did better that week were NCIS, Survivor, Criminal minds, @ and a half men, CSI MIami and the mentalist.

DVR results week #3Ranked 16th out of 20 for total audience increase and ranked 19th for greatest percentage increase at 21% from live to live plus 7.

Live ratings: 7.962 (and that, that is very scary)Live plus same day (normal rating) 9.012Live plus 7 days 9.632

So from 9pm to 3am we gained 1.05 million viewersFrom 3am Monday Morning to the next Sunday we gained another 620 thousand viewers who don't matter in any way shape or form.

Oh and to put that live rating number into perspective, tv has been doing live plus same day for quite a while but it used to be very marginal (except for a few select shows) since VCR did record, but viewer people actually used that as their primary way of watching shows.

So that 7.962 is the worst rating TAR has received since Since the third day and time slot change hit season 9. Its a terrible, terrible number.

I don't understand any of that. Why would gaining another 1 million viewers within 6 hours of the show airing not be wonderful news? And why wouldn't having the World Series up against us be factored in?

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Oh the World Series was a factor, not just as large of one as many other things that TAR as faced. Both the world Series (so far) and the Sunday night Football game performed poorly (compared to what they normally might do).

Total audience (including the World Series) for the 8pm hour was down compared to the same week the year before.

But we should have lost some viewers., but the fact that without sports preemptions we have been between 9 million and 10.5 isn't great. Its not bad either (as again so many shows are down this year, and most shows do decline year to year). Its just we haven't since moving to Sundays. We have actually built each year over the same time period of the year before. This season we won't.

As for the DVR data, yes the first 5 hours of DVR use does count for ad revenue (And thats good), its also good that most of our DVR audience is in that first 5 hours (some shows aren't).

I was just really depressed by that live number for week # 3, and that was just a fairly typical sports weekend (Football hasn't performed as well this year).

Compared to season 12 and its toughest night of competition (The Championship game which had 53 million viewers by itself) we still had just in live audience a rating of 8.382. With much much stronger competition.

So thats a reason why I think the number was a disappointment. ANd I am very curious how last nights episode will fair when we get the breakdown of live and DVR use. It could very easily be closer to 7.5 million or lower (though I hope that doesn't happen and that low number is the worst it falls this year).

I wonder if having the full episodes on CBS will play a role? As happy as I am to see them, there has always been a sense of urgency to either watch or DVR the show...and perhaps that sense of urgency is gone?

But some ad man should be happy...I watched all 20ish? clips each 1-3 minutes, and I saw the same exact 30 sec Sprint ad all however many times. That's a pretty high return--30 sec for less than 3 minutes?

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Actually Ken total audience level even with both sporting events (Both of which set record lows) shouldn't have been a large factor.

I'll respectfully differ with you on that, mswood. You know I love you but besides that, I do think the sports ratings skewered this week's TAR ratings. With no football against TAR, the male audience and 18-49 went to Fox for the WS. I do think the World Series (lower ratings considered with the two teams this year) did play a factor for the lower finish this week.

I do think you'll see TAR's ratings go up on Sunday with regular programming back in place.

Actually Ken total audience level even with both sporting events (Both of which set record lows) shouldn't have been a large factor.

I'll respectfully differ with you on that, mswood. You know I love you but besides that, I do think the sports ratings skewered this week's TAR ratings. With no football against TAR, the male audience and 18-49 went to Fox for the WS. I do think the World Series (lower ratings considered with the two teams this year) did play a factor for the lower finish this week.

I do think you'll see TAR's ratings go up on Sunday with regular programming back in place.

I wonder if having the full episodes on CBS will play a role? As happy as I am to see them, there has always been a sense of urgency to either watch or DVR the show...and perhaps that sense of urgency is gone?

But some ad man should be happy...I watched all 20ish? clips each 1-3 minutes, and I saw the same exact 30 sec Sprint ad all however many times. That's a pretty high return--30 sec for less than 3 minutes?

Yes, that actually does help. NO matter what the studios said to the writers before the strike happened. The studio gets small small amount of money from each ad watched. ANd while it is small, its is a growing market where income is only going to increase.

With viewership down (on tv in general) and people skipping commercials on DVR's (God knows I do). I would expect more of these things to occur. 1. More ticker ads along the bottom of the screen. Kind of how the CBS logo is there, I expect to see a few more shows having a brie tag about a corporate sponser. And more product placement, in other words the gnome, the gnome is here to stay.

And even though I am all negative nancy on the ratings, since ad revenue is a huge point for the network no other group brings in more then the 18-49 age group and even with lower viewer numbers we still do better then any other sunday show on CBS and do better then a good chunk of CBS total lineup. So thats a huge plus.

What seems to have happened is that any early decline in the TAR13 numbers has largely ended. "The Amazing Race 13" has stabilized in the ratings as a moderately successful show on a largely successful network lineup. CBS as a whole also won the week among overall viewers, tying for second place in the 18-49 age group.

Ok, I have the overnights from last night. TAR finished 4th in its timeslot after Sunday Night Football, Extreme Makeover, and The Simpsons. We'll see the final numbers later.

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TV Ratings: NFL, 'Simpsons' Lead the Way Sunday'Treehouse of Horror' gets the night's best 18-49 ratings

Fast National ratings for Sunday, Nov. 2, 2008

The NFL brought ratings dividends to both NBC and FOX Sunday, while the annual "Simpsons" Halloween show was a big demographic draw.

NBC led the night's overall race with a 7.8 rating/12 share. ABC and CBS tied for second in households at 7.1/11, with ABC slightly ahead in total viewers (11.27 million to 11.19 million for CBS). FOX finished a competitive fourth at 6.4/10. The CW's lame-duck lineup hardly made an impressing, finishing at 0.5/1.

"The Simpsons" helped FOX lead the adults 18-49 demographic with a 4.9 rating. NBC took second at 4.5, followed by ABC at 3.9. CBS averaged 2.6, and The CW limped in at 0.2.

CBS' "60 Minutes" put CBS on top at 7 p.m. with a 9.1/14. Late-afternoon NFL games and "The OT" averaged 7.9/13 for FOX (and led the 18-49 demo by a wide margin). NASCAR racing, 5.2/8, and an abbreviated "America's Funniest Home Videos," 4.0/6, put ABC in third, just ahead of "Football Night in America" on NBC. The CW went with "In Harm's Way."

NBC grabbed the overall lead at 8 p.m. with "Sunday Night Football," 8.4/13. "Extreme Makeover: Home Edition" drew a 6.9/10 for ABC. "The Simpsons," 7.0/10, and "King of the Hill," 5.0/7, came in third for FOX. "The Amazing Race" scored a 6.0/9 for CBS. "Valentine" couldn't find any love on The CW.

"Desperate Housewives," 10.1/15, snagged the night's biggest audience for ABC at 9 p.m. NBC's NFL game, featuring the Indianapolis Colts and New England Patriots, earned a 9.1/14. "Cold Case," 7.5/11, was third for CBS. FOX fell back to fourth with "Family Guy," 5.8/9, and "American Dad," 4.4/7. "Easy Money" closed the night for The CW.

"Sunday Night Football," 9.0/15, regained the lead for NBC at 10 p.m. "Brothers & Sisters" posted a 6.6/11 for ABC, while CBS got a 5.7/10 from "The Unit."

Amazing Race9.76 million viewers2.8 in adults 18-491.8 in adults 18-34

Cold Case11.64 million viewers2.6 in adults 18-491.5 in adults 18-34

Unit8.97 million viewers2.3 in adults 18-491.5 in adults 18-34

Ken reported the Household numbers with 6.0 (meaning 6% of all households were watching) and a 9 share meaning 9% of all households that were actually watching tv during that hour.

Thats are lowest score for household of the season (though we have had lower viewer totals, more tv on, but fewer people watching at each house).

Nice to see an uptick in viewers. But the demo performance wasn't good. With just beating out 60 minutes in both demo groups is shocking for a night without a sports overrun. Also shocking is how low that demo is falling.

We really, really need to see the show pull higher in both viewers and demo to make sure we get two cycles next year. CBS so far is doing better then most networks as far as viewer decline goes, but I would be much happier with at least a 10 million viewer average and a 3.0 average in adults 18-49.

This is easy, we wont have any. Amazing Race didn't score a large enough viewer increase in either total viewers or percentage increase to make either top twenty list.

Meaning we had less then a gain of 1.466 million viewers from our live airing to the live plus 7 so we will only have the normal data live same day (which does include those who watch up to 3am monday morning).

We also didn't have an increase of at least 18.2%.

The CBS shows that did make the list were CSI, NCIS< Survivor, Two and a half Men, The mentalist, CSI-Miami, and Numbers (WTF get the hell out of our spot).