Looks like one step forward, two steps backwards: The OS3 SDK CD with the StormC IDE was nice. Visual debugger, project management, visual make. I wonder if H&P would be willing to sell or donate the IDE part of StormC so that we could use it with the new compilers? Btw, very nice to have so many compilers.

In reply to Comment 3 (Anonymous):Why are lusers always getting off on looks? If it doesn't work properly then no amount of good looks will make it any better. And in aos4's case it will not ever work right, amongst other things because the chipset on the motherboard has major bugs.

In reply to Comment 13 (garfield):What are you coopering it whit MorphOS, Linux or Windows? my amigaone runs whit out crashes, I have dma off, and lately there have bin an patch for Linux, and the Hyperion drivers take the Articia feature inn count, as fear as I can tell there is no bugs.

In reply to Comment 18 (Kjetil):Actually, whether MCP crashed or not changed from version to version. Lots of its features were really helpful, and yes it could catch some things. I believe Grimreaper is a _tad_ more cleanly implemented as it has been designed and implemented from "inside" the OS and not the other way around.

In reply to Comment 22 (Anonymous):Lot's of linux etc developers still do use GCC same way we do. Really, not all developers use KDE ide's or something like that. I know that IDE may help a lot, but if you know what you are doing then it's actually more flexiple and powerful to use GCC, gdb, make etc from shell. It's matter of taste ofcourse, some use console/shell as much as possible, some use graphical desktop like WB.

In reply to Comment 22 (Anonymous):I agree that a neat IDE would've been nice, and I bet there won't be long till OS4 have several either, but there are actually a lot of people that prefer to use the editor of choice and command line tools combo.

Of course those screenshots were just done quickly to show "it's alive", so I used the basics, which shows that even if you can't afford GoldEd or CygnusED or don't have a vi(m) or (x)emacs degree you can manage to contribute to the platform anyway. Seeing is believeing right?

"Developers" is a generic term (notwithstanding Microsoft's Monkeyman's antics). There's a pretty strong argument that "visual interfaces" have encouraged some "developers" who should have been accoutred with a strait-jacket before being allowed near a computer mouse.

For my humble opinion, a mix of the two is best, with the balance shifting towards the command line as experience increases and speed of development becomes more significant.

In reply to Comment 13 (garfield):Looks and use are important in our microsphere and even more so out there in the macrosphere of the real world!

Re: 'chipset issues' Can we not drag this crap into every thread. OS4 isn't even released yet - how the heck do you know the appropriate software workarounds haven't been implemented. Let the product speak for itself.

In reply to Comment 26 (Gregg):I program everything in notepad...except for my Visual C# .NET projects.

Having an IDE doesn't mean you can't use the command line, even .NET could compile with the command line.

But if you do have an IDE like the one in the .NET Studio, you are HIGHLY likely to use it. As a matter of fact, you'll pry it only from my cold, dead hands.

I was a command line bigot too, and even today, I'm doing most of my development this morning in notepad, and copying pasting various things into my telnet session...BUT, there can be no doubt it would have been nice to have had a standard IDE in the dev tools.

Why...because there is no SANE argument that lack of features is a feature. This isn't like System 7 or something, where the gui is trumping the command line....in point of fact, the gui would just be a nice option, just an option that probably everyone would exercise.

But, that isn't meant as stinging criticism, I'm just happy they are supposedly finally releasing the thing. BTW, that was yesterday, who got their copy? doesn't hurt to make sure it happened.

and....what dealer is selling amigaone's with os 4 pre-loaded now? any? I'll be glad when that gets sorted out too. I definately want one. no point in being an amigan without an amiga.

Good argument RE: the IDE, I have started programming in .NET after doing only PHP before, and I admit I like the IDE.

However, it's also fair to say that they had to get it out the door ASAP, and waiting on a nice IDE just wasn't practical, i'm sure one will appear sooner rather than later though :-)

Also nobody will have the pre-release of AOS4 YET, as it was being MASTERED this week I believe and NOT sent out, people should start getting there's in about a week and a half / two weeks if everything goes to plan if i've read everything correctly ;-)

The other day, I was just catching up on the latest PC apps. I notice that in 14 years they still have the same box designs. They are totally boring and over-complicated. You still have to read through 300 pages to find out how to do the most basic things (properly.)

People are afraid of buying a potential $1000 doorstop. That at leasts tells you that long-term support and value for money are the key hurdles.

The computer world is maturing. Hardware is pushing the limits of current technology. It's the time again for software to make the difference.
Look at MS office: Fewer people are buying the latest upgrade because the previous editions do everything they need.
I would imagine that people would upgrade because they can get things done faster and/or easier.

In reply to Comment 47 (smp266):The other day, I was just catching up on the latest PC apps. I notice that in 14 years they still have the same box designs. They are totally boring and over-complicated. You still have to read through 300 pages to find out how to do the most basic things (properly.)

It typical that newbe¡¦s read 300 of pages when they should have only read 100 pages, book and pdf¡¦s are normal indexed category, and keywords inn the back of the book.

People are afraid of buying a potential $1000 doorstop. That at leasts tells you that long-term support and value for money are the key hurdles.

Well maybe then again AmigaOS4.0/AmigaOne is not about targeting new users, the main goal is to clean up the exec, and modern features an migrate from no longer produced 68k, improve and add new standards, get developer back to the platform,

And then the next versions of AmigaOS after OS4.0 can stand ready whit new ppc native software, Workbench4.2 etc, ready for common Joe, AmigaOne G5 64bit 3Ghz and up.

The computer world is maturing. Hardware is pushing the limits of current technology. It's the time again for software to make the difference.

Software pushes the limits of the hardware, and you get nasty upgrade cycles, than again it¡¦s true that you can do things whit new software that you can do whit old, AmigaOS4.0 being an example ƒº

Look at MS office: Fewer people are buying the latest upgrade because the previous editions do everything they need.

This is true, then maybe MS is on it way down, as one of the leading software enterprises, or at least the MS staff is, bring possibilities for newcomers.

I would imagine that people would upgrade because they can get things done faster and/or easier.

Or maybe because software that uses computers restores are to demanding for there computer, then they upgrade there software because the computer crashes all the time, being cheep Intel/AMD spec computers whit none expensive / shit VIA chipset, pushed to it¡¦s over limit by hard competition.