PC hardware forum: Fact or fiction? Powering down a PC via the power button will harm it

Question: Fact or fiction? Powering down a PC via the power button will harm it

For the record, I am not talking about holding the button down forseveral seconds as would be done in the case of a hard shutdown. Onlya quick press and release--which (from my perspective) seems to sendthe system through the exact same shutdown gymnastics as the "Start /Shut Down" method. I have been using this method my entire life withevery single system I've owned (since 1998) and (to my knowledge) havenever done harm to the OS of any of my workstations.

I just had a $7,000 3D workstation built running Windows7 and thebuilder told me never, ever shut it down using the power buttonbecause it would eventually harm the OS. To which I said to myself,"Yeah, right! I've been shutting off computers that way (Windows XP,mind you) for the past 12-plus years without a single issue. What's thebig deal? Prove to me that this does harm."

But the more I read online, the more I see people supporting thisnotion. Also, I've noticed that some people say it used to be an issuewith older computers. But today's systems are designed to be shut offeither via the power button or the old Start / Shut Down method.

So, for the record, please advise me on this. Is it safe to shut a(Windows 7) PC down via the power switch as opposed to the standardStart / Shut Down method?? Is that one of those rules that no longerneeds to be followed because of advancements in technology? For example,it used to be necessary to pump a car's gas pedal one or two times beforeturning the ignition to prime gas into the carburetor. But then camethe advent of electronic fuel injection, which meant you never againhad to worry about priming the fuel. Thanks.

--Submitted by: Michael B.

Here are some member answers to get you started, butplease read all the advice and suggestions that ourmembers have contributed to this question.

how can a hard shutdown damage hardware? i can understand software writing process going corrupt which can damage the OS needing <in extreme cases> a reinstall/format, but how can hardware get damaged? I have been using computers for the past 13 yrs now, and have tortured their poor computer souls quite a bit with quite a few hard shutdowns, which luckily have never damaged my software, let alone my hardware...

If you know what the reference to "Murphy's Laws" implies (anything that CAN go wrong WILL go wrong!), use that as your starting premise when working on computers! As a tech. with over 20 yrs. experience, I could describe things that happened to computers that you'd swear wouldn't happen! And most of it could have been prevented had the operator known more than he/she actually knew.

When in doubt, shut down normally. Chances of anything going wrong that way are so remote that the Lottery would have to figure out the odds of failure! But when you just use the power button, you are taking risks, both with your system's hardware AND data. If the hard drive was busy when the button is pushed, there is great danger that the read/write heads inside could scratch the surface and destroy data or the disk. ONLY use the hard power down when there is no other means to shut down the machine short of pulling the plug (a bad idea!). Relying on just touching the power off button for a moment rather than 10 secs. is still a risk. Your measure of the length of that "moment" may not be what the computer has in mind.

...now determined by the setting in the BIOS and/or in the power management control panel of Windows. It used to be that turning off a machine by the power button was equivalent to a hard reset, or "Drop everything this instant you're toast." That is usually only achieved these days by pressing and holding the power button for 6 seconds or pressing the reset button (if your system has one).

If you press and immediately release the power button, the system checks the settings on how to behave. If they're set to drop the system cold, they will. If they're set to do a standard shutdown, then it will perform the exact same shutdown that happens when you select WindowsGem-->Shut Down. Some people even set the button to behave as a suspend instead of a power down. Windows does not provide functionality to drop the system cold, but the BIOS might. Windows will always attempt to shut down gracefully.

Now, what can happen if you DO power it down ungracefully by using the hold for 6 seconds or reset button methods? If the system happens to be in the middle of writing data, in particular the Registry, the system will corrupt whatever it's writing, and if in an unfavorable state (bad luck), may corrupt the hard drive itself. What this means is that next time it goes to boot, it may not recognize the hard drive or won't be able to boot successfully and you will have to likelly reinstall the OS and possibly lose all the data that was on that hard drive (if you were unwise enough to back it up). Yes, I have had this happen in the course of working on computers for the last 20 years.

All of this is true, except for the last part. Unless your personal data was being written to the HDD when a hard shutdown was done, then only whatever was being written was damaged. If it was in your RAM and not written to the HDD yet, then it would be lost too. If your personal data was not being written, then you could easily boot a Linux live environment (Such as Ubuntu, or even lighter, Puppy Linux) and get all of that data written to a external HDD while you then go back and reinstall Windows.Easy done, takes little time, but why chance it?

I didn't know the reason why you weren't supposed to hit the power button, just that you weren't. I can tell you that I got a brand new Acer tower for a song because they were discontinuing it, and my son, in a fit of anger, hit the top of it very hard, and made it very hard to figure out hard to start. I had just BOUGHT it because the BIOS on my old HP had died - it wasn't running well and claimed it needed a NEW bios. When your machine says that, do NOT replace it! It committed suicide. ANYWAY, I went through some hoops and figured an alternate startup was F12, raid raid ready, password. THEN I installed Windows 7 and my problem was solved. BUT I have a hard time locating where to shut down sometimes.......so I still hit the button on the top of the tower sometimes.

I tried using Nero software's system back-up, completely ignorant of what it would do after prompting to inserta blank CD. By the time I got to the 15th CD and half a day waiting for it to finish, I clicked 'Cancel'This left me with a pack of useless disks numbered 1 to 15..

In any case, even if the back-up was complete after one or two more CD's, I was left wondering how I wouldrestore if ever necessary. Moreover, seeing we make daily changes, are these not lost when restoring?

Is there another way to back up without software?Seeing I keep a spare blank hard drive on my PC for emergencies, is it not possible to back up to that?

Mine is Vista Home Premium and isn't supposed to have native support for back up. I had the HP stuff on board but didn't trust it, and once tested it to find out it was a fail.

Then one day I got a Windows Secrets email, claiming they now have native support on Win7 machines! I checked my PC and low and behold, I had backup capability. I tried it on my last re-install, and it worked very well. The only thing that failed was my favorites files; the folders were preserved, just not the links. I think it was because I did the restore improperly. Everything else was back - perfectly. Even my security settings stayed the same, the hidden administrator account was disabled!!!

Supposedly Windows 7 can produce image backups now - maybe that is why that Acronis folder appeared in my files, after SP2!!

I have had lots of good luck using Carbonite's online backup service. Your files are backed-up as you go along (on-the-fly), and are easy to re-access should you have to install a new HD, or recover a file. Carbonite runs always, in the background, requires no extra knowledge or tinkering, and assuming your computer has more than a dial-up connection does it quickly, 24/7. Like insurance, if you only have to use it once, it pays for itself!

I've had program lockup more times than I can remember in the years from 1985 on my Amiga to AT computers up to my laptop. I've never had a Hard Drive go bad shutting down because of holding the button in to shut down. what other choice do you have when computers act stupid?

"If the system happens to be in the middle of writing data, in particular the Registry, the system will corrupt whatever it's writing, and if in an unfavorable state (bad luck), may corrupt the hard drive itself. "

I suggest that you learn about two (at least) concepts: "journaling filesystem" and "database transaction". This is the 21st century, there are technologies to avoid the results you mention, and Microsoft uses them.

Now, your computer is not going to blow up, or catch on fire or anything, but an improper shutdown can and will cause data corruption which will mean anything from a loss of data to complete operating system failure.

Many newer computers don't have a real power button, but a button that acts like a "command+u+enter" sending a shutdown signal, or whatever your system is set to interpret the power button signal as. In this case, a normal press of the power button is perfectly safe and you don't have to worry about it.

For most older computers and a steadily decreasing number of newer computers, a power button is exactly as the name implies, it connects and disconnects the power from the hardware (which will still happen when your system freezes and you are forced to hold the new style power buttons down to do a hard reboot). It is this type of shutdown that is dangerous for several reasons:

1: In order to protect the platters on a hard drive, the writing arms will snap into the idle position. If it happens to be writing at the time, it will continue writing as the arm moves across the disk, causing data corruption. If this hits a critical sector, it can damage your operating system, registry or file system, possibly to the point where it cannot be fixed without a re-install.

2: The computer could be modifying protected program or operating system files at the time - for example running windows update. If a shutdown occurs, your operating system or programs can be damaged. While system restore points make this less likely to be a major issue, it is not perfect protection.

3: You could have unsaved work which will be lost.

4: Something unexpected can happen. Computers are not simple machines. While points 1-3 are probably the largest dangers, they are not the only ones and they can end up being very expensive to fix.

Personally, I find it easier to do a proper shutdown (when I actually shut down), and I wouldn't risk the other way.

Where did you pick up the idea that, somewhat like an old 33 rpm record, the data would still be written while the arm was going to the park position? You think there would be a ssssscccccrrrrraaaaattttttcccccchhhhhh digitally? If they can make it go to the park position, they can shut off the writing first. Like one of the other posters said, the PC has enough juice in the power supply to inform the system that power is lost and to go into shutdown mode when line power is lost. Linux might not like it, but Windows handles such situations very well.

The idea that "the writing arms will snap into the idle position. If it happens to be writing at the time, it will continue writing as the arm moves across the disk, causing data corruption" is loonytoons; it simply does not happen.

My mother has done this experiment for you -- on an XP system. I don't know how Windows 7 would respond, but here is the result:

My (nearly 90 year old) mother has an XP machine that she bought new not long before XP was phased out. And although she was taught how to turn it off, she never did it correctly. For a couple of years, she turned it off every day by pushing the same button she pushed to turn it on. <div>The end result: a nightmarish, corrupted operating system that is lugubriously slow. EVERYTHING hangs up. She only does email, so there was little to lose. But EVERY transaction -- click to open a document, or any command whatsoever -- takes from 2 minutes upwards (usually longer) to respond. And often, it does not respond at all. I thought perhaps a restart would help, but every restart takes about 20 minutes or more.

For a long while, I could not figure out what was the problem with her computer. I did many thorough scans to make sure it was not a virus, or spyware, registry errors, disk errors, etc etc. I removed everything from start up; I removed extra programs (of which she had very very few.) In any case, she does not open or download anything, and she has no idea how to search the web (and no interest in it.) She also has a firewall and anti-virus program actively running and updating. She has XP on automatic updates. I WAS AT A LOSS.... WHAT WAS IT?

Somehow I got her to show me everything she does, and I discovered that she turns off the machine -- every night -- with a hard shut down.

I want to reload her OS, but as Gateway did not see fit to give her an XP Home restore disk when they sold her the computer (what is with these cheapskates? does it cost them 20 cents to include it in the box? ), I cannot reload XP for her without buying a new disk -- for which, Gateway wanted $69 to buy the disk (I think that was the price.) I told them the situation, but the plight of an 89 almost 90 year old who has screwed up her computer does not remotely interest them or inspire their human kindness. She won't let me buy a disk, and she does not want to spend money on a new computer. I am still looking for a solution.</div>So there ya go. Don't hard shut down your computer. For some reason, you've been lucky thus far...

I think your case might be a different issue. My prime suspect would be that it was caused by the Automatic Updates and by Microsoft. I have mutliple Win XP computers and have faced the same problem especially the ones with slower CPUs where it is very noticeable.

At some point in time, Microsoft changed the Win XP automatic updates to do a full scan to check for updates at start up which resulted in horribly long startup times (sometimes 5 - 10 minutes) before the HDD would go idle. I happen to have the original installation disk for XP on those systems and have tried formatting and re-installing a laptop and a desktop. In both cases, the computers were blazingly fast initially...until I added all the patches and service packs 1 through 3. Then its back to its old self (5 - 10 minute startup). If Automatic Updates is turned off, it will reduce the start up time by a few minutes but still slightly sluggish due to all the patches and updates.

Part of the problem is that most of the software developers today are used to writing bloated code. If they coded a program on a PC that has the latest quad core CPU, 4GB RAM or more, they won't notice any performance degradation even if the code is slightly bloated. It would be very noticeable if you try running the same program on a Pentium II computer. Not all developers are trained in assembly language as they used to before the late 1990s where memory management and CPU cycles are always accounted for.

I have been an avid gamer for the past 28 years. One of the best example I can give is the flash games available on Facebook, they tend to cause my older laptop and PCs (Pentium 4s) to ramp up to 100% utilization. I have played games with much better graphics and faster responses (even 3D games) on old Pentium MMX computers. Only my new quad core computer does not go to 100% with these flash games.

too bad your not a neighbor I have 5 unused copies of XP and 1 of XP pro that I would be more then willing to let you use. If you work in an office which uses pc's check with the network techs they may have a copy of XP that you can use. Also you might want to check with the local computer store I am sure they would because there are those businesses out there that don't want to update thier software and XP is the only OS that it will run on.

I would also suggest befoer you do that to run a scan of the disk to repair the sectors that will be currupted by the shutdown. Older HD's would leave partial sectors loaded with code making it hard to recover. The reason opening a file or program takes so long is that the file isn't "indexed" so reassembly of the information takes a long time.

WinXP is no longer sold at retail and support for it is being phased-out as it ages. For $69, that's a good deal! You will not find an XP install disc in any store these days, and even buying a Win XP disc on ebay may well go over $100. Many computer Mfgs. have stopped supplying separate system disks, instead supplying all the needed re-install/recovery files in a separate partition on the main hard drive. But before you buy such a disk, check your existing hard drive to be sure that a recovery partition isn't already there to help you out! If there IS a recovery partition, it will be listed as a separate drive in "my computer."

Typically, pressing a function key (usually F12) during start-up will make the rig access that recovery partition.

It sounds like your power button has been mapped in Windows to shut down your system properly. So sweet and simple, keep doing it the way you always have. Windows will power your system down just as if you click start then shutdown, if the power button is properly mapped.

If the PC is set up to "gracefully" shut down Windoz when you press the button, fine, it is absolutely no different than the menu shut-down command. Heck, if you get really stuck, go ahead and shut it off by holding the power button - sometimes that is the only way to get the sucker rebooted. When all else fails, yank the power cord. My motto, "don't take no crap from a PC". Sometimes we need to just kill the sucker with a server power off, 50 users connected and SQL running. I'm not saying you can't hurt anything, but Windows is far, far more tolerant of that sort of thing than, say, the L-word. You are very unlikely to hurt anything, especially a non-server machine, no matter how much you over-paid for it. Only twice in 27-years have I seen any corruption from non-nice shutdowns, and they were due to drive access failures on SQL servers. Maybe I am just lucky, but on a home box, go ahead and pull the plug or whatever. No way will it harm the "OS". It might mess up one or two files, but not the whole OS. So there. One more thing, I never shut down my PCs unless I need to. If you want it to last, keep it running. It is the cooling and heating of a zillion power offs over time that will mess things up. And, mostly what gets messed up is the power supply itself.

The days of PC power supplies dropping their output when the front panel power switch is depressed are long gone. In Windows 7, you can go to Control Panel> Power Options> System Settings and tell the PC what to do when the power switch is depressed. It generates a signal, just like everything else in the PC, that goes to the motherboard. The power switch can be programmed to "Do Nothing", "Go to Sleep", "Hibernate", or "Shut down". The latter is the same as clicking Start>Shut Down.BTW, I got my first 'PC' in 1978 and have been building, programming, fixing, and installing them ever since.

This reply and that of timhood above is correct in that new power down buttons are not hard, they send a signal to the OS to power down, and in that respect they are like using the mouse to shut down.

However as Corrytonapple points out, the use of the button causes the OS to shut down more rapidly without the checks and prompts that you recieve using the mouse method. This means that if the machine is installing some software, or otherwise writing to the registry, instead of allowing this process to finish gracefully, or instead of askign the user to shut down the process before shutting down the computer, the process will be shut down in mid run. This can mean that the OS is not healthy when powered up again. I have seen this happen on a Windows 7 machine when my wife got bored of waiting for a Windows update and used the power button in the middle of the update. A back track to an earlier state of the system and a couple of reboots solved the problem but it was not fun.

So the answer is - it is normally okay to use the power button, but don't use the power button when you are installing software especially a system upgrade.

This is pretty obvious to most computer savvy, but there are some computer savvy people who are saying above "Yes the power button is fine," which will be read by the non computer savvy. It needs a caveat:

The power button is normally fine, unless you are in the middle of installing stuff.

You can set up your machine to Hibernate by pressing the power button.This will NOT harm your machine, and I set up all 3 of my computers to do so.Just right click on the desktop-choose personalize-pick screen saver.In the screen saver window,chose power options-then choose change what power button does.I then choose Hibernate for desktops and when I close the lid on my laptop.This shuts down your computer and saves the current status.When you turn the computer back on, the boot time is much faster, and returns to where you were when you "Hibernated". It just puts the PC to sleep, and saves the status to the hard drive. By the way,you will see a large file in the root drive, about as large as your current total memory.Just remember to shut down the computer in the normal way every week or two to clean up the memory usage.Hope this helps.John V. in Denver

It's a no-brainer. Every laptop I have ever worked on has that as an option... to shut the PC down by hitting the power button. What's godd for the notebook/netbook/laptop should work for the stay home version too.

On secon thoughts, that may be why portables don't last as long desktops!

If there's the slightest question about shutting down your computer with the button, why would you do it? My experience is that it bypasses some important Windows shutdown sequences. The button wasn't intended for normal shutdown. Don't do it.

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