Tuesday, August 9, 2011

TSA was in the news last week after a passenger alleged we prohibited her from bringing insulin through the checkpoint at Denver International Airport (DEN). While we did search the passenger’s bag after an alarm and did not allow an oversized, unfrozen ice pack to be brought on board,(in adherence with the 3-1-1 liquid regulations) our initial review of this incident including interviews with the officers and a review of the CCTV indicates that the cooler contained a sports drink and a melted icepack, but not insulin. Because the passenger stated that she was a diabetic, she was permitted to take the sports drink through the checkpoint. .While we’re on the topic… Medication is ok to place in your carry-on or checked luggage in any form. From our web page:"All medications in any form or type (for instance, pills, injectables, or homeopathic) and associated supplies (syringes, Sharps disposal container, pre-loaded syringes, jet injectors, pens, infusers, etc.) are allowed through the security checkpoint once they have been screened. Atropens, an auto-injection system that can help treat many emergency conditions (low heart rate, breathing problems, and excess saliva related to insecticide, nerve gas or mushroom poisoning) are also allowed. We do not require that your medications be labeled." (Read More)TSA works with over 70 disability-related groups and organizations to help us understand the concerns ofpersons with disabilities and medical conditions. These groups have assisted TSA with integrating the unique needs of persons with disabilities into our airport operations.

If you’d like to comment on an unrelated topic you can do so in our Off Topic Comments post. You can also view our blog post archives or search our blog to find a related topic to comment in. If you have a travel related issue or question that needs an immediate answer, you can contact a Customer Support Manager at the airport you traveled, or will be traveling through by using Talk to TSA.

John said... Shall I take the phrasing of "oversized, unfrozen ice pack" to mean that the ice pack would have been allowed through if it was frozen?

August 9, 2011 7:21 PM

....or smaller than the one confiscated?

Why doesn't TSA have an unbiased agency investigate these incidents? TSA doing their own investigation does nothing since TSA is not trusted to be honest. Even the Administrator of TSA lies before Congress.

Is it appropriate for TSA to call these people liars on this taxpayer funded blog?

If an ice pack is frozen it will still thaw at some point. Is it then a danger TSA?

Blogger BobTSA Blog Team____________________In the article she said she made it through screening with a small amount of insulin in her bag that she believed the screener failed to notice. (She said that the screener confiscated the majority of her supply, which was at the top of her bag and missed a small amount at the bottom of her bag.) Was the icepack in there to keep the insulin cool?

Blogger Bob said...With no medication, it would have to be frozen solid in order to be permitted.

Bob- once an ice pack is removed from the freezer, it immediately begins to melt. Therefore, NO ice packs will be "frozen solid"- there will be at least a little melting. (Especially after standing for hours in your checkpoint lines.)

our initial review of this incident including interviews with the officers and a review of the CCTV

Really? You spoke with the people who may have done something wrong, and they DENIED it? They MUST be innocent then. Case closed.

As for your CCTV - When a citizen claims the TSA assaulted them, or handcuffed them to a bench or something, you seem to always have an excuse for why CCTV is not available. But you expect us to believe there is CCTV coverage of this particular checkpoint so good that it can spot a bottle of insulin?

I'm a little confused with what happened with her insulin. As a diabetic, I always double and triple check that my insulin is with me before leaving the house. I need insulin to live so I make sure I have it and I'm sure many other diabetics pack similarly.

Thanks Bob for clearing the ice pack and other liquid restrictions up. I now know that I can carry an ice pack with my insulin no matter if it is partially melted. Also, I can carry a sports drink (or juice, or other sugary drink) through the checkpoint in case of a low blood sugar incident.

I will print this page out to take with me the next time I fly. Hopefully that will assist me in taking ice packs and the drinks to assist with low blood sugar through the checkpoint. If it doesn't, what should I do? It sometimes seems that some of the TSA agents aren't as sensitive to medical needs as they should be.

I don't understand the point of this post. The TSA has apologized to the woman.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/28773212/detail.html

Why blog about it? Why not just leave it along?

Additionally, from the TSA webpage quoted on this post; "We do not require that your medications be labeled." But the press release issued by the TSA on this incident states; "Liquid medications should be labeled,"

I'm traveling in a few weeks and I'm taking over the counter (non-liquid) meds with me. To save space, I combine them in a single small container. Do they need to be labeled or not?

If there was medication in the bag, the ice could have been partially melted and been permitted.

With no medication, it would have to be frozen solid in order to be permitted.

Blogger BobTSA Blog Team

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I have to ask. Is there any evidence that a frozen liquid is any safer than an unfrozen liquid, especially since the frozen liquid tends to unfreeze over time, such as would be the case simply between the hour or so prearrivial as well as the time period during the flight?

Second question, which is based off of an observation I made a few years ago. What's stopping someone from simply making several trips through security, especially at layovers?

Blogger Bob said... John Said: Shall I take the phrasing of "oversized, unfrozen ice pack" to mean that the ice pack would have been allowed through if it was frozen?

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Yes.

If there was medication in the bag, the ice could have been partially melted and been permitted.

With no medication, it would have to be frozen solid in order to be permitted.

Blogger BobTSA Blog Team

August 9, 2011 8:28 PM..................Bob, the TSA.GOV web page states the following in the discussion for Travelers with Disabilities:

"Frozen items are allowed as long as they are frozen solid when presented for screening. If frozen items are partially melted, slushy, or have any liquid at the bottom of the container, they must meet 3-1-1 requirements."

This passage seems to disagree with what you posted. Can you please clarify exactly what the policy is?

So when do people who have to use constant-infusion pumps start getting treated like human beings?

And for goodness sakes, how about you stop asking diabetics to risk insulin comas by insisting on playing with their pumps? TSOs are NOT doctors and should NOT be allowed to manipulate pumps or therapeutic electronics (hello Seattle North!). If a passenger has a pump, let them show you how it works. Always. They know their life-support equipment better than you do, and you are muck less likely threaten their health (Hello Seattle North!).

Blogger Bob said... With no medication, it would have to be frozen solid in order to be permitted.

Why? This doesn't make any sense at all to me. How can a frozen ice pack be safe and a melted one be dangerous? The both contain exactly the same quantity of material. During the flight the frozen ice pack will melt and by the end of the flight it will be identical to the unfrozen ice pack.

How do you expect people to take you seriously when your policies are obviously nonsense? This is a dumb as the idea that a 6oz bottle is dangerous but two 3oz bottles are not.

Bob,You said that since the person was a diabetic, the sports drink was allowed through as it was deemed medically neccessary. Since the sports drinlk was then classified as medical, wouldn't that mean that the ice pack was then allowed?

obviously, the insulin would not be IN the icepack. duh tsa. associated supplies includes insulin. duh tsa. and i agree, having watched admi pistole and his cronies lie before congress, why doesnt someone else investigate these allegations? because obviously, the tsa is about as bad as the communist party...

Perhaps it would help if the CCTV images and transcripts of the interviews were made public as it appears we have two people with radically different perceptions of the events. I am not inclined to believe either at this point.

I am going to guess this particular issue is very important since Blogger Bob is responding to comments and questions.

I would like to take advantage of that fact to ask you a question Blogger Bob.....

People with diabetes rely on insulin to stay alive. It is not something they joke about, they take it very seriously. Based on that premise, why would this woman lie about having her insulin removed from her bags? Why would she carry a container with ice packs if she didn't also have insulin in the container?

Are you trying to imply she was some sort of terrorist scout testing the TSA system to see if ice packs would make it through security so the bad guys can now try and send dangerous things hidden inside ice packs?

Let me see if I am understanding this correctly...A Type 1 diabetic (who relies on insulin to live) was not traveling with insulin. Instead, she was carrying around an oversized cooler with ice and a drink in it?? Come on.

My father is a Type 1. Your agent is lying and/or the tape has been tampered with.

"Blogger Bob said...TSA works with over 70 disability-related groups and organizations to help us understand the concerns of persons with disabilities and medical conditions. These groups have assisted TSA with integrating the unique needs of persons with disabilities into our airport operations."

And yet the TSA continues to violate and humiliate persons with disabilities.

For instance the gentleman with a urostomy bag. He's had happen twice, the second time after an apology form Pistole himself.

Dear TSA, this is your problem: The vast majority of the public believes the woman. You have no credibility.

I have been treated poorly by so many TSA agents that I've lost count. I've been screamed at -- one agent even had the audacity to call me "babe." I've missed flights at Dulles because TSA had one checkpoint open and thousands of people waiting to be screened. (While we could see dozens of TSA agents behind the glass screens standing in circles, laughing and carrying on.)

I have had items stolen and my things rummaged through and questioned about why on earth I would need so much advil for one trip. Really?

It doesn't surprise me that your agents took insulin. You sit in Washington thinking that your agents are doing a good job.

They're not.

You have a problem. A real problem. And I don't see anyone addressing the rudeness, the theft, the lack of training, the stupidity or the ignorance your employees display day in and day out.

I have two more flights to finish my work project. Then I'm no longer flying. You people need help. And I don't see it getting any better any time soon.

"Blogger Bob said...TSA works with over 70 disability-related groups and organizations to help us understand the concerns of persons with disabilities and medical conditions. .................What Blogger Bob really meant is that TSA says they work with over 70 disability related groups.

It is clear based on available evidence that TSA didn't really work with anyone.

Someone is eventually going to sue the crap out of TSA over violations of the Americans with Disabilities Act. When that happens, they plaintiffs will have my full support. As a disabled person I have been closely monitoring this blog and all I see is hot air when it comes to disabilities. When I travel, there are inconsistencies about how my medical equipment is tested. Should your agents ever mess around with me, you can be assured I will take legal action both against the agents and against TSA as a whole. And yes, I do want to travel today - safely, efficiently and effectively. The latter two describe what SHOULD be the TSA process. I'm sick of the double-talk and cavalier attitude I see on this blog.

For all of you asking questions about frozen items, please read this post plus the updates at: http://bit.ly/pa7lXS

As far as liquids go, you are preaching to the choir about 3-1-1. I've said it more than once on this blog and I will say it again. I will be a very happy man when the day comes that TSA can pull the stopper on the 3-1-1 procedures. Don't get me wrong here, I agree that we need it until something better comes along, but I and many other TSA employees and passengers are ready to see it go away.

There are reasons why we do what we do with liquids and we've done our best to explain the reasons why to the public here on the blog, our web page, and with the media. Until something better comes along, 3-1-1 is what we'll have to use.

For those traveling with meds, if you are confused by any of this or if you have any problems, please contact a customer support manager by using Talk to TSA: http://bit.ly/oKj3Fg

I will be a very happy man when the day comes that TSA can pull the stopper on the 3-1-1 procedures._______________I will be a very happy citizen when the TSA goes away, period. Your rules and regulations make absolutely no sense whatsoever. TSA is invasive, offensive, ineffective, and costly to the taxpayer and flying public. It is government gone amuck and government gone seriously wrong.

In the meantime, I do empathize with Blogger Bob who has to try and justify this mess.

With all respect ... if a TSO tells me at a checkpoint that my completely frozen ice is not permitted through the checkpoint, what am I supposed to do? Show them your blog posting and wade through the 233 responses which supposedly clarify matters?

Is it really all that hard for someone at TSA to put up a simple, one screen webpage which discusses the "ice rule"?

@BB: "There are reasons why we do what we do with liquids and we've done our best to explain the reasons why to the public here on the blog, our web page, and with the media. Until something better comes along, 3-1-1 is what we'll have to use."

Translation: We can't admit we were wrong, so we have to wait for another "solution" to this nonproblem so we don't look like complete dunces.

rb said:"Why doesn't TSA have an unbiased agency investigate these incidents? TSA doing their own investigation does nothing since TSA is not trusted to be honest. Even the Administrator of TSA lies before Congress."

"Is it appropriate for TSA to call these people liars on this taxpayer funded blog?"

do you truly know the facts in the investigation? or because someone said that that something happened then it has to be true, like the woman who setup the tsa and made a spectical at a tsa screening area so that she could get all sorts of attention? its interesting rb how you always assume that the tsa is guilty until proven innocent. you are constantly on here talking about the Constitution and yet you always have a unjudical bias when it comes to the tsa.

Blogger Bob said... As far as liquids go, you are preaching to the choir about 3-1-1. I've said it more than once on this blog and I will say it again. I will be a very happy man when the day comes that TSA can pull the stopper on the 3-1-1 procedures. Don't get me wrong here, I agree that we need it until something better comes along, but I and many other TSA employees and passengers are ready to see it go away.

So you're saying that a bad policy that doesn't work is better than nothing? I would have to strongly disagree with that idea.

It does explain a lot about the TSA however. You feel that you need to be seen doing something. If you can't figure out something useful you just do some random nonsense so that it looks like your doing something. Appearance if more important than effectiveness.

The TSA has destroyed its own credibility. Almost weekly, the TSA finds itself responding to a story that is littered with half-truths, either from passengers or the TSA employees. The TSA chose the low road when grasping for solutions to protect US citizens. Now the TSA wastes our tax dollars trying to maintain a soured reputation that most likely will never be restored.

Blogger Bob said... For all of you asking questions about frozen items, please read this post plus the updates at: http://bit.ly/pa7lXS

For those traveling with meds, if you are confused by any of this or if you have any problems, please contact a customer support manager by using Talk to TSA: http://bit.ly/oKj3Fg

Thanks,

Blogger BobTSA Blog Team

August 11, 2011 5:57 PM

................Bob, I realize this is an additional post on your comment but after reflection I think the following needs to be said and action taken by TSA.

Your post directs readers to an earlier TSA Blog post discussing frozen items. That is a problem. TSA screeners routinely discount information provided based on the TSA.GOV web page and this blog doesn't even merit that.

If TSA has official guidance from the public then published that guidance in an official place.

Even today, as I read it, the official TSA.GOV web pages discusses issues for those with special needs but nowhere is it stated that partially frozen items will be permitted.

So I have to ask just what is it that TSA wants? Why can't TSA speak with one voice on such matters and why can't TSA compel its employees to comply with this guidance?

If the TSA Blog is official TSA policy guidance to the traveling public then so state that and require TSA employees to acknowledge and act on this guidance and if a TSA employee refuses to do so require severe discipline for that employee.

I have to ask, is it really that hard for TSA to formulate policy as simple as stating any method to cool medicine or medically needed items is acceptable since the safety of the individual is TSA's primary mission?

Again, is TSA so dysfunctional that such a simple policy is above the capability of the thousands of TSA employees earning $1000,000 or more each year?

Really?

I think the taxpayers of this country need to have their hard earned monies wasted by TSA returned!

Nothing the TSA does will ever be right in the court of public opinion. Even if the CCTV footage of the incident were released it would be called "doctored" by those that hate the TSA.

Blogger Bob why do you even try? Good customer service and good access control security are conflicting goals. The agency you defend needs to forgo the illusion of "customer service" and provide straight-up security Israeli-style. The current half-baked policies embarrass and degrade us all.

Clearly it stops nothing. I can pack enough 100 ml bottles in a qt bag to get pretty near the same amount of something as a pair of 16 oz bottles. If quantities like that are a problem to you, your current policy does nothing to stop them.

What the policy does, is make a mockery of rational thought. I recently forgot that I had a small sealed bottle of Dasani water in my bag. As the TSO, lifted it almost triumphantly from bag the bag, I mentioned that I had forgotten that it was there and said, "I'll just drink it". She said, "No you won't. I have to throw it away." She walked to a very publicly accessible garbage can and dumped it in. I asked why that was so when I could have drunk it 10 feet and 2 minutes previously had I known it was there, and she replied that for everyone's safety they could not take chances by letting contraband into the hands of passengers. When I asked why they were then so casual about it as to throw it in an accessible trahs can, she replied, "Sir, it's only water."

When I travel with my insulin I put a baggies of ice in with it. When it is checked I know that it can or cant go depending on how much it has melted. So, if they say no, I simply go to a resturant behind security and ask for some ice or wait til I get on the plane and then get some. Its really no big deal.

Thank you, Bob, for reiterating the official TSA policy about medications. Unfortunately, the wide variation in the training and competence of actual TSOs at checkpoints renders any "official policies" meaningless as guidance for passengers. Regardless of what the official policy states, the actual rules in effect at the moment a given passenger is screened depend entirely on the competence, understanding, "interpretation," and whims of that particular TSO. That means a passenger can never know what the rules are until the TSO decides he or she has violated one or more of them.

Like every other flaw or failing, the TSA has consistently chosen to ignore the variability and inconsistency, no matter how obvious it is to passengers. Rather than admitting to the problem and fixing it, they resort to their usual strategy of ignoring it, denying it, and spinning it away. In this case they've declared the "unpredictability" one of their "layers" of effective security. If passengers never know what to expect, the terrorists won't either. That keeps aviation safe. At least that's what they want us to believe.

For most passengers the inconsistency is merely an annoyance or frustration, which at worst reinforces the disdain and derision with which many people view the TSA. But for someone who needs medications that require refrigeration, it may be a matter of life or death. Since the TSA refuses to do anything about the inconsistency, I can only offer this advice: If your life or health depend on TSOs knowing the rules and applying them correctly, you must not fly.

This is a most unfortunate situation that nobody outside the TSA should consider acceptable. But it's apparently just fine with the TSA.

Liquids including water, juice, or liquid nutrition or gels for passengers with a disability or medical condition; Life-support and life-sustaining liquids such as bone marrow, blood products, and transplant organs; Items used to augment the body for medical or cosmetic reasons such as mastectomy products, prosthetic breasts, bras or shells containing gels, saline solution, or other liquids; and, Gels or frozen liquids needed to cool disability or medically related items used by persons with disabilities or medical conditions.

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Wasn't the sports drink cleared on the "medically related items used by persons with disabilities or medical conditions"? And since that seems to be so, why doesn't the gel or frozen liquid provision apply?

It is amazing that the people who complain so much about this are the ones who fly everyday and know the rules, yet they are the ones who dont follow the rules and hold the lines back and wanting to argue about everything just to hear themself talk. Set an example and act like adults, and quit acting like the kids that you dont like sitting near on the plane.

Anonymous said... It is amazing that the people who complain so much about this are the ones who fly everyday and know the rules, yet they are the ones who dont follow the rules and hold the lines back and wanting to argue about everything just to hear themself talk. Set an example and act like adults, and quit acting like the kids that you dont like sitting near on the plane.

Anonymous said... It is amazing that the people who complain so much about this are the ones who fly everyday and know the rules, yet they are the ones who dont follow the rules and hold the lines back and wanting to argue about everything just to hear themself talk. Set an example and act like adults, and quit acting like the kids that you dont like sitting near on the plane.

I happen to think that fighting against stupid unjust and useless rules sets a pretty good example. The most dangerous people are those who just go along with anything and never question what they are told.

It also shouldn't be a surprise that those who have to fly a lot are most upset about being repeatedly molested.

This whole 3-1-1 thing is just the tip of the iceberg, and another in a very long list of tactics used by the government to keep the people in fear, and believing whatever they are told. Most people flying are decent, and just trying to get from one place to the next with the least amount of hassle. Fear tactics being implemented today by our government in so many different forms to try and keep the sheeple in line literally makes me sick. I deeply resent this blatant shameless and anti-American philosophy of "Scare them in to submission by any means possible to keep the masses under our control." One day soon there is going to be such an outcry against this blatant form of deceit and manipulation from the people of this nation against this oppression and intimidation such as the world has never seen! No government is so big that it's people cannot or will not overthrow it for the greater good of the people themselves. Enough is enough... government lies, deceit, collusion, coercion, manipulation and any other means necessary to keep the people of America "under the thumb" of the government... those days are coming to an end people! Contrary to what most of the government's shady survey people think about how best to keep the masses subservient and afraid so the powers that be can run amok with whatever the agenda... we're not stupid, nor are most of us as afraid as you'd like us to be! So prepare yourselves, all of you! The American people are becoming MAD as HELL.. and we're not gonna take it any more!!!

We are now arguing over frozen water for supposed medication??? Is this how our tax dollars are being spent??? Look at the energy and time wasted on this discussion, never mind the actual situation in question! This whole TSA thing should be abolished completely. No wonder the deficit is ever expanding... amazing!

More interesting then the story is that fact that the TSA has a website like this and are actually willing to discuss things here.

I have to say, that it does make me feel better knowing that when there are questions, I have a place to come.

Listen nothing is perfect and I salute the TSA for making our skies safe again. You will never make everyone happy and everyone has a different situation and set of circumstances. So it is impossible to be able to have a "game plan" for every single situation, but I think that the TSA has done a great job.

because she was a diabeic wouldnt the drink she was aloud to carry threw tsa check point be concidered medicine? If it is concidered a medicine she shouldve been aloud to bring the cooler for the drink(medicine) to stay fresh.

Please folks. Don't try to make something out of this that it is not. Please don't twist things by saying such stupid things as "If I freeze my shampoo."All policies have to have SENSIBLE EXCEPTIONS. We don't want to kill people because they do not have their medicine.The policy is simple. If you have any questions, call 855-787-2227. They will give you the straight answer.They allow unlimited amounts of FROZEN ice packs. The reason they have to be frozen is to keep people from emptying them and putting other stuff in them. I guess that MAYBE you could freeze dangerous stuff but it would be hard to use it for its intended purpose.Every hotel that I have ever been to, from the budget ones to the expensive retreats freeze medical use ice. If you can't get it frozen, THROW IT OUT. It only costs $2 at Walmart. And for all you sensationalists that say "it starts thawing the minute you take it out of the freezer," congratulations for remembering 6th grade science class. If you put a couple of large packs of ice in a lunch box style cooler, it stays cold enough to pass inspection for 8-10 hours. After that, it isn't helping keep your medicine cool anyway.Use common sense and not all of this hyperbole.

Someone said 'thanks for making our skies safe again' ....*guffaw loudly* yeah right! our skies were never not safe people...don't you get it? the gov't IS the terrorist! They are the ones keeping the people in fear! It makes me sick sick sick every time I have to submit to these TSA bullies. Why should anyone have to worry about their medication? Does it look like a gun, a bomb, a knife? No, then why the hell are they even talking about it??! makes me sick to think about these idiots trashing our rights , and have not to date, despite the mountains of money spent and rights trampled upon, thwarted even a single 'terrorist' attack! Not ONE. Why? Because THERE ARE NO TERRORISTS IN THIS COUNTRY!!! Wake up America! Stand! What have we become, a nation of cowards?