Fitness people who think they know everything about health, chemistry and biology piss me off!

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Fitness people who think they know everything about health, chemistry and biology piss me off!

So I got into a discussion last night with some guy that I talk to on facebook who is a fitness coach. He's normally a very nice guy and we normally get alone just fine, but he often posts things like this,

"I sometimes hear from people who question the safety of the "health and fitness industry - supplements" - I wonder if they drink Gatorade.

They put the taste of the product over the health of the consumer...

Brominated vegetable oil, a synthetic chemical that has been patented in Europe as a flame retardant, will no longer double as an ingredient in Gatorade sports drinks.

Molly Carter, a spokeswoman for Gatorade owner PepsiCo Inc., said the company has been considering the move for more than a year, working on a way to take out the ingredient without affecting the flavor of the drink."

Now, I'm no expert in the safety and chemicals that they put into Gatorade, but given his past posts, I was not surprised, after doing a little google searching on the chemicals, to find that they have been approved for safe giving to humans. His main argument was that it is used as a flame retardant so why on earth would we drink it? I responded with, "Well, we use water as a flame extinguisher, so I'm going to stop drinking that." Although the intent of my comment was obviously to point out how chemicals that have a crazy use, doesn't mean that it's necessarily harmful to humans. During our conversation he also brought up propylene gylcol (which is used as anti-freeze), and also growth hormones in animals. Now, I claimed the same thing, there is absolutely no evidence to show that these cause harm in humans.

My whole beef with people who make these claims is that they aren't science people, but they do appeal to a large unscientific community. The same people who believe that the government is feeding us unsafe agents in our food are the same people who claim that the government has and is withholding the cure to cancer, HIV, diabetes, and other common diseases because there is so much money to be made off treatment. They are all just a bunch of conspiracy theorists that shouldn't be allowed to speak.

Re: Fitness people who think they know everything about health, chemistry and biology piss me off!

I feel your pain.

Fitness people are often a little crazy. I follow a bunch of these guys on Facebook and Twitter. They often photograph their meals and post the photos to their accounts, which has always struck me as slightly humorous.

They will respect the advice of the teenager at General Nutrition more than that of their own physicians. Because the teenager will tell them what they want to hear, and their doctors will only give them the truth.

They typically need badly to believe in the fantasy that they have discovered a secret universe over which they have power by way of special knowledge - and which the scientific people deny out of a conspiracy to prevent people from improving.

Re: Fitness people who think they know everything about health, chemistry and biology piss me off!

There's a difference of being right, and being right for the wrong reasons. Of course more information could come out about GMOs or brominated vegetable oil or proylene glycole or artificial sweeteners that isn't currently available, but until then, people should not argue from ignorance, but rather, do some actual lab research.. Of course you're right with moderation, but the chemicals that they put into these products are much below the safe consumption level. Everything you put into your body can kill you, even water. The point. When I pointed this out to him, he just reverted to more crazy talking. Argh.. Stupidity should be outlawed.

Re: Fitness people who think they know everything about health, chemistry and biology piss me off!

Originally Posted by youfiad

I get super super super mad when people who claim to know all about science but are merely just puppets of conspiracy theorists, emotionally driven in their arguments.

There's definitely a "streak" to the health & fitness 'crowd' where they think a chemical is bad just because it's a chemical. I hear all these vague things like "the chemicals we're putting in our bodies.." and to be sure some of them are bad, but it sounds like he's just kneejerking that because it's a chemical it must be terrible for you.

What kills me is how people go on and on about drinks/bottled water/chemicals in drinks but when you go into a grocery store if you aren't buying produce or the very most rudimentary basic food items, good luck finding anything not almost literally frosted in high fructose corn syrup. At least in the U.S.

Re: Fitness people who think they know everything about health, chemistry and biology piss me off!

Originally Posted by xbuzzerx

There's definitely a "streak" to the health & fitness 'crowd' where they think a chemical is bad just because it's a chemical. I hear all these vague things like "the chemicals we're putting in our bodies.." and to be sure some of them are bad, but it sounds like he's just kneejerking that because it's a chemical it must be terrible for you.

What kills me is how people go on and on about drinks/bottled water/chemicals in drinks but when you go into a grocery store if you aren't buying produce or the very most rudimentary basic food items, good luck finding anything not almost literally frosted in high fructose corn syrup. At least in the U.S.

What I'm surprised about is how, if you make false claims about a person that can effect their life it's called defamation and is illegal. However, when you make false claims about products, which can effect MANY MANY MANY people, it's perfectly legal.

Re: Fitness people who think they know everything about health, chemistry and biology piss me off!

You must admit that things like "propylene gylcol", "brominated vegetable oil", "glycerol ester of wood rosin" do not sound very appetizing. I've never seen a recipe that calls for such chemicals and you cannot buy them in the grocery store spice rack as stand-alone food items.

Thus, there is the problem; you're eating a disgusting sounding ingredient that you would never use in your own home-made food. People become skeptical of these chemicals because "I have no idea what is it, I have no idea why it's there in the first place, it is completely unnatural, it sounds awful and if they put it in anti-freeze or fire retardant who knows what's doing to my insides".

Whether you agree or not that that these things might be harmful, that is the issue and people are afraid of the stuff.

Re: Fitness people who think they know everything about health, chemistry and biology piss me off!

[QUOTE=Hard-up1;8665844]I think the best evidence you could mount is to post a pic; that's show 'em!

Silly crushes aside, your point is well made. Sharing pseudo-science, or even real fitness science, is not welcome when it is shared in a condescending way.[/QUOTE]

Well, I am all for being condescending about something if you have the right to do it. I am often condescending to people who say stupid things. I don't think that he was being condescending however, just annoying.

Re: Fitness people who think they know everything about health, chemistry and biology piss me off!

you talking about the broscientists? tell me about it. they swear because they go to the gym, go to bodybuilding.com, drink a protein shake, weight gainer, supplements and etc that that they know exactly what they're talking about but they don't know shit. the funny thing is some of those supplements, weight gainers, protein shakes, and etc actually have tons of shit inside them too that would make these guys get scared out of their minds like "holy shit. THIS thing that is found in landfills is in my protein shake" BUT yet that benefits of gaining muscles outweighs the cons such as having some foreign metal shit in their system. they still drink it anyway. they would much rather have the protein shake than to eat some protein rich diet because it's inexpensive and easier than going to the supermarket, buying the food and cooking it.

me personally, it is what it is. death is inevitable. no matter what or how much you drink, eat, smoke or whatever. you can't stop fate. there's plenty of things that they put in food and drinks that they sure as hell ain't telling anybody even the tap water coming out the sink ain't even safe regardless if you wanna boil it or not. it's a battle that can't be won.

one thing about the closet/you don't have to hurry/it will be bad tomorrow/so brother, don't you worry

Re: Fitness people who think they know everything about health, chemistry and biology piss me off!

Originally Posted by cityboy-stl

You must admit that things like "propylene gylcol", "brominated vegetable oil", "glycerol ester of wood rosin" do not sound very appetizing. I've never seen a recipe that calls for such chemicals and you cannot buy them in the grocery store spice rack as stand-alone food items.

Thus, there is the problem; you're eating a disgusting sounding ingredient that you would never use in your own home-made food. People become skeptical of these chemicals because "I have no idea what is it, I have no idea why it's there in the first place, it is completely unnatural, it sounds awful and if they put it in anti-freeze or fire retardant who knows what's doing to my insides".

Whether you agree or not that that these things might be harmful, that is the issue and people are afraid of the stuff.

Brominated vegetable oil and propylene glycol are just the scientific name for them. Acetic acid and ascorbic acid don't sound appetizing, but we readily consume them and are natural biproducts. There are thousands of chemicals that you consume and that make up your broccoli. It's not just a uniform, homogenous vegetable..... You'll find vitamins, proteins, and minerals inside it with equally disgusting names.

Re: Fitness people who think they know everything about health, chemistry and biology piss me off!

Originally Posted by youfiad

Brominated vegetable oil, a synthetic chemical that has been patented in Europe as a flame retardant, will no longer double as an ingredient in Gatorade sports drinks.

My whole beef with people who make these claims is that they aren't science people, but they do appeal to a large unscientific community. The same people who believe that the government is feeding us unsafe agents in our food are the same people who claim that the government has and is withholding the cure to cancer, HIV, diabetes, and other common diseases because there is so much money to be made off treatment. They are all just a bunch of conspiracy theorists

This THREAD is a flame-free zone, because a flame retardant has been mentioned.

And yes, not to mention the highly-explosive NITROGLYCERINE, which is a very effective treatment for some kinds of heart disease, and that's been around as long as I can remember. My Dad was taking it in 1970, I think.

Or, for that matter, people who are taking warfarin [RAT POISON] as a blood thinner, another effective remedy.

conspiracy theories, though...I'm one of those who believes there is often (or at least sometimes) some part of truth in those theories. I'm on the "far left" and it is said that people who are far left or right are more likely to believe conspiracy theories than those who are in the middle/centrist. The reasons to believe these theories may have different reasons between right and left, such as the conspiracy-theory justifications to pass all these new voter laws in recent years.

But, "Just because you're paranoid, doesn't always mean they aren't out to get you."

Originally Posted by xbuzzerx

There's definitely a "streak" to the health & fitness 'crowd' where they think a chemical is bad just because it's a chemical. I hear all these vague things like "the chemicals we're putting in our bodies.." and to be sure some of them are bad, but it sounds like he's just kneejerking that because it's a chemical it must be terrible for you.

What kills me is how people go on and on about drinks/bottled water/chemicals in drinks but when you go into a grocery store if you aren't buying produce or the very most rudimentary basic food items, good luck finding anything not almost literally frosted in high fructose corn syrup. At least in the U.S.

Well yeah, DUH...even WATER is a chemical.

I look carefully for things with HFCS in them, so that I can avoid them. There are a few exceptions, though the only exception I can currently think of: Ritz Crackers. I only consider them because HFCS is like the 6th or 7th ingredient or something, so not a huge component.

You don't even want to THINK about the current ingredients in chocolate toppings/syrup (for ice cream, etc.) - Nearly everything you can commonly buy is complete crap. For example, the ingredients in what is considered to be the "definitive" chocolate syrup:

I remember about 20 years ago when it was DELICIOUS ("good enough to DRINK!!"), and the ingredients were much more healthy though never really healthy. It may have always had corn syrup in it, but not the HFCS kind which I believe is a more modern invention. (When did HFCS start...in the 1980's?) Not only that, but the "old" taste simply isn't there anymore. I did recently find "Hershey's Nutri-Milk Mix" with much better ingredients, but I had to find it in Mexico, and it tastes better than the current Hershey's available in the USA.

BOSS: I'm sorry, but I'll have to lay you and Jack off. SUE: Can you just jack off? I feel like shit today.

"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires" - Susan B. Anthony

THE WIZARD OF OZ: "Transported to a surreal landscape, a girl kills the first person she meets, then joins three strangers to kill again."

Re: Fitness people who think they know everything about health, chemistry and biology piss me off!

Originally Posted by mitchymo

The idea of a 'synthetic chemical' doesn't SOUND healthy, so to a fitness freak, its bound to be thrice the worry.

I'd just remind him that he is actually ingesting REAL poisonous chemicals whenever he munches on potatoes, rhubarb, white button mushrooms, kidney beans, castor beans, cherries, almonds and apricots...to name but a few. All these have poisons of one sort or another in them.

I'm not sure a synthetic v non-synthetic argument will get you very far. Many synthetic compounds have pharmacological properties which make them life savers. Many naturally occurring compounds are highly toxic.

You're right to say that many of those foodstuffs contain poisons. The important thing is to eat sensibly. Eat too much salt or drink too much water and you die.

Re: Fitness people who think they know everything about health, chemistry and biology piss me off!

Forgive me, but I always associate "fitness trainers" with people and IQ's under 100. What kind of salaries do you think they make and why would their bodies be more important than their brains? I don't mean this as a flame, but simply as a query. Why would you accept any of their advice before checking with your MD?

Re: Fitness people who think they know everything about health, chemistry and biology piss me off!

Originally Posted by cynicus

Forgive me, but I always associate "fitness trainers" with people and IQ's under 100. What kind of salaries do you think they make and why would their bodies be more important than their brains? I don't mean this as a flame, but simply as a query. Why would you accept any of their advice before checking with your MD?

Well, personally, I would never trust an ordinary MD with anything specific, that's not their jobs to know that stuff. I would only trust a specialist who specializes in nutrition with these questions. A lot of health buffs aren't necessarily stupid, I know many who are extremely intelligent people, but sometimes take things a little too extreme.

Re: Fitness people who think they know everything about health, chemistry and biology piss me off!

My ex was a fitness nut and it kind of frustrated me. Mind you, I have two friends that are both MDs: one in physical therapy and another in nutrition [I had a crush on the latter for a while until his albinism got full blown. Mhm that Jewfro.] I am for a healthy lifestyle but if you want to address men and their obsession with fitness, it is quite similar to sex addiction in that they both get off on the endorphin rush from each activity.

However with food, I know things are quite weird. Take for example aspartame which is an artificial sweetener aka sweet n low. Aspartame is one of the compounds used to make Kevlar, which is what body armor is made of.

There is a difference between high fructose corn syrup and sugar but between refined sugar and "natural" sugar, it's all empty calories either way.

Re: Fitness people who think they know everything about health, chemistry and biology piss me off!

I've occasionally joked about following only the health and nutrition advice that's given/reposted by my Facebook friends. From what I understand, I'd have to cut out roughly 97% of the things I eat or otherwise use. ("FABRIC SOFTENER IS LINKED TO ALZHEIMER'S!" "POPCORN IS 100% GENETICALLY ENGINEERED AND WILL MESS WITH YOUR DNA!" "NON-ORGANIC APPLES LINKED TO BRAIN CANCER!") The only things I think I'd be allowed to use for everything from here on out are pot, lemons, and kale. With the last two being optional.

Re: Fitness people who think they know everything about health, chemistry and biology piss me off!

Originally Posted by cityboy-stl

You must admit that things like "propylene gylcol", "brominated vegetable oil", "glycerol ester of wood rosin" do not sound very appetizing. I've never seen a recipe that calls for such chemicals and you cannot buy them in the grocery store spice rack as stand-alone food items.

Re: Fitness people who think they know everything about health, chemistry and biology piss me off!

A good way to gently remind these people that they don't know everything about everything is to casually point out that "natural isn't always good. I mean, how many times do you hear of people dying from natural causes? That stuff will kill you!"

Re: Fitness people who think they know everything about health, chemistry and biology piss me off!

Originally Posted by youfiad

So I got into a discussion last night with some guy that I talk to on facebook who is a fitness coach. He's normally a very nice guy and we normally get alone just fine, but he often posts things like this,

"I sometimes hear from people who question the safety of the "health and fitness industry - supplements" - I wonder if they drink Gatorade.

They put the taste of the product over the health of the consumer...

Brominated vegetable oil, a synthetic chemical that has been patented in Europe as a flame retardant, will no longer double as an ingredient in Gatorade sports drinks.

Molly Carter, a spokeswoman for Gatorade owner PepsiCo Inc., said the company has been considering the move for more than a year, working on a way to take out the ingredient without affecting the flavor of the drink."

Now, I'm no expert in the safety and chemicals that they put into Gatorade, but given his past posts, I was not surprised, after doing a little google searching on the chemicals, to find that they have been approved for safe giving to humans. His main argument was that it is used as a flame retardant so why on earth would we drink it? I responded with, "Well, we use water as a flame extinguisher, so I'm going to stop drinking that." Although the intent of my comment was obviously to point out how chemicals that have a crazy use, doesn't mean that it's necessarily harmful to humans. During our conversation he also brought up propylene gylcol (which is used as anti-freeze), and also growth hormones in animals. Now, I claimed the same thing, there is absolutely no evidence to show that these cause harm in humans.

My whole beef with people who make these claims is that they aren't science people, but they do appeal to a large unscientific community. The same people who believe that the government is feeding us unsafe agents in our food are the same people who claim that the government has and is withholding the cure to cancer, HIV, diabetes, and other common diseases because there is so much money to be made off treatment. They are all just a bunch of conspiracy theorists that shouldn't be allowed to speak.

Re: Fitness people who think they know everything about health, chemistry and biology piss me off!

We've grown up so much with the message of "milk: it does a body good" that we forget that ultimately... milk is something designed by nature to help a friggin baby cow become a huge fat adult cow. We were never 'supposed' to drink it really by nature imo.

Re: Fitness people who think they know everything about health, chemistry and biology piss me off!

Originally Posted by xbuzzerx

We've grown up so much with the message of "milk: it does a body good" that we forget that ultimately... milk is something designed by nature to help a friggin baby cow become a huge fat adult cow. We were never 'supposed' to drink it really by nature imo.

Too much of anything can be bad.

Wouldn't that then go for all dairy products too, like cheese, yogurt, ice cream?

Re: Fitness people who think they know everything about health, chemistry and biology piss me off!

Some people just feel that they HAVE to be right, and there is only one side, THEIRS, to any "argument" they engage in. If the majority of people out there would unclench their assholes a little and be more willing to look at issues of any topic, matter or subject, from BOTH sides, and realize that "theirs" is not the ONLY viable option or case, the world would be a much better place.

Your point to him was very valid, and makes sense. I mean after all, we ARE still here as a species, even though all these supposed terrible, awful, chemicals and substances are being ingested, breathed, transferred, etc. into our bodies every second of every day.
Just because it has a "big" name and isn't readily available to be purchased at Walmart or Rite-Aid, doesn't mean it's deadly and the end of the world as we know it if it is released on humanity. lol

Yes, there are things that are definitely bad for us, but if you want me to believe that something specific, something that has not been reputed to be deadly or toxic with no argument from the opposing side, is bad or not bad, then come to me with fact, proof, stats and research, and even if I am weighing in on the opposite side, I will STILL take the time to examine all those points and take them into consideration before I just assume you're still wrong and I'm absolutely right.

I've been known to believe strongly in things and have had people come to me and show me an argument for their side, in a civil, intelligent way, and in the end find that I changed my thoughts completely after being educated more and informed. Unfortunately, not everyone is willing to do that, and they're going to be obstinate and unchanging, regardless.

In those cases, I just take the high ground and walk away and leave them yammering their stupidity to those who will continue to listen to them.

Re: Fitness people who think they know everything about health, chemistry and biology piss me off!

Originally Posted by JockBoy87

In fact, better not consume anything but deoinized water

Dehydrated water. Just add water.

Originally Posted by mitchymo

This is why whole milk is for growing kids, semi-skimmed for healthy adults, and skimmed for the elderly is recommended.

I still drink whole milk. If it gives me cancer, i can blame it on smoking

Interesting thast my tastes for milk naturally evolved that way, anyway, as I got older. I drink skim nowadays (or should I say that I *USE* skim - I seldom drink milk, actually), but when I was a kid I didn't even consider it a viable option.

BOSS: I'm sorry, but I'll have to lay you and Jack off. SUE: Can you just jack off? I feel like shit today.

"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires" - Susan B. Anthony

THE WIZARD OF OZ: "Transported to a surreal landscape, a girl kills the first person she meets, then joins three strangers to kill again."

Re: Fitness people who think they know everything about health, chemistry and biology piss me off!

Originally Posted by Telstra

It doesn't taste like milk at all.

Originally Posted by xbuzzerx

People say exactly the same thing about diet vs. regular soda if they only drink regular.

You can get used to anything. To me whole milk tastes like syrup now.. as does regular soda.

Has any of you actually tasted REAL milk? ... I mean... right out of a cow? ... like warm and all...
You'd realize then o drink from the supermarket has any taste...

Or so I heard... wouldn't drink such a nasty stuff myself...
Nor do I like that pathetic aspartame taste of diet drinks/yoghurt... yuck, what's their point? (besides giving you cancer... too... and making you fat?)

Re: Fitness people who think they know everything about health, chemistry and biology piss me off!

Originally Posted by JohannBessler

@Youvlad:

It works the other way around, too. Sometimes a "meme" started in the fitness crowd becomes repeated so often, that even the Medicos believe it, and begin to dispense the meme as sound medical advice.

One example that immediately comes to mind relates to advice given about eating six small meals a day, in order to keep the blood sugar level and mitigate the risk of diabetes.

In fact, recent science has begun to seriously question this wisdom. They hypothesize that we humans mutated two different ways. One group---the equatorial group--did indeed evolve to eat many, smaller meals a day.

The other group, however--the ones who migrated closer to the poles--evolved in such a way that they can fast for long periods of time with no discernible effects on blood sugar levels. This group evolved this way due to the vast seasonal differences in the supply of food.

The new findings suggest that for people with Northern European blood,periodic fasting brings about more optimal health than eating "six, evenly-spaced, small meals a day", which can actually worsen biomarkers in that populace.

For the last year or so I have fasted 16 to 20 hours a day most days of the week, only occasionally altering the schedule. I found that after the first few days I ceased to be hungry during the fasting period, and I have suffered no loss of energy. If anything I have more energy, even when working out.

My muscle mass has increased (my bodyfat remains at 7% + -) but I don't know how much is attributable to diet or workout routine, or some combination of both. Interestingly, only when I alter the schedule--as I did this morning, sitting down to an espresso and a cornetto with a colleague after only a 13 hour fast--do I get hungry. I feel great and look great. But then I felt great and looked great under my previous regimen, which was 5 meals a day.

By the way, my partner, who's a 4 to 5 meals a day man, thinks I'm crazy. When we travel, or when he wants to go out on Sunday morning for a celebratory breakfast, I'm more than happy to change my routine.

I was unaware of the Northern European connection, but a Dane recently told me that I looked the way Danes thought Swedes stereotypically looked--adding laughingly "of course we Danes hate all Swedes."