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It is always the players from rival games spreading hate or critics not getting paid enough to write bad reviews. Such a black and white way of looking at things.

Is it really that hard to accept that game has flaws and that is why people are disappointed or negative about it? but i guess it is easier to blame it on all 'rival' MMO players and 'un paid critics' to justify the low ratings and disappointment than to actually accept that Defiance in its current state has lots of shortcomings and that Trion has their work cut out for them.

But hey why take words of 'rival' players just trying to spread the 'hate'... take word of the main in charge himself.

Who isn't accepting the game has flaws? From what I have seen people are pretty much open about this game. It has issues, if anything people view it more as a seed from which something interesting might grow. It's an average game but has an above average scope. But all of that doesn't hide the fact that relationship management goes on and is prevalent in forums such as this. That's what people are hired to do, big up one game and belittle the competition. Stay blinkered if you want, like the management here, but it's happening.

You keep on generalising that is the problem. Blaming all the shortcomings and criticms of the game on rival players hardly leaves any room for prudent discussion. If you know game has flaws then why such black and white thinking? there is hardly any hate about this game unless valid crticism is also considered hate. Your whole premises about 'hate' for the game is based on pure speculation considering the forums are very mild in comparison to GW2 or SWTOR.

Originally posted by Isturi

Bigdaddy There you go again. Quick to point out a nagative link. It gets old dude.

So are your knee jerk reactions. That is community blog by lead of the game. What is negative about it?

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I like shooters. I like Sci-Fi. I won't get defiance. Why?

a) 50€ is expensive

b) 50€ and, at the very same shop page, I'm told to spend another 20€, for very basic stuff like an inventory with an acceptable size. Seriously? I pay 50€, and I don't even get a fricking large inventory, unless I pay another 20€? Screw you! If the developers would actually do something for the 20€, like... I don't create... give me a huge content upgrade, half a year after the games release, then yes, I might consider it. But 20€ for what exactly? Why is that stuff not already in the game? Why do they deserve 20€ on top for that?

c) I read that Defiance has in-game advertising. So if I pay 50€ for the game, and 20€ for basic stuff like a usable inventory size, then I'm rewarded with advertisment. Great.

d) Every review I read said that the game is dull. And nothing I read about the game makes me really want to play it. It doesn't offer anything that is actually creative.

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It is always the players from rival games spreading hate or critics not getting paid enough to write bad reviews. Such a black and white way of looking at things.

Is it really that hard to accept that game has flaws and that is why people are disappointed or negative about it? but i guess it is easier to blame it on all 'rival' MMO players and 'un paid critics' to justify the low ratings and disappointment than to actually accept that Defiance in its current state has lots of shortcomings and that Trion has their work cut out for them.

But hey why take words of 'rival' players just trying to spread the 'hate'... take word of the main in charge himself.

Who isn't accepting the game has flaws? From what I have seen people are pretty much open about this game. It has issues, if anything people view it more as a seed from which something interesting might grow. It's an average game but has an above average scope. But all of that doesn't hide the fact that relationship management goes on and is prevalent in forums such as this. That's what people are hired to do, big up one game and belittle the competition. Stay blinkered if you want, like the management here, but it's happening.

You keep on generalising that is the problem. Blaming all the shortcomings and criticms of the game on rival players hardly leaves any room for prudent discussion. If you know game has flaws then why such black and white thinking? there is hardly any hate about this game unless valid crticism is also considered hate. Your whole premises about 'hate' for the game is based on pure speculation considering the forums are very mild in comparison to GW2 or SWTOR.

Originally posted by Isturi

Bigdaddy There you go again. Quick to point out a nagative link. It gets old dude.

So are your knee jerk reactions. That is community blog by lead of the game. What is negative about it?

Er um ok lol I was taken by surprise. It is not so nagative as I thought it was going to be sorry.

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Originally posted by Bigdaddyx

You keep on generalising that is the problem. Blaming all the shortcomings and criticms of the game on rival players hardly leaves any room for prudent discussion. If you know game has flaws then why such black and white thinking? there is hardly any hate about this game unless valid crticism is also considered hate. Your whole premises about 'hate' for the game is based on pure speculation considering the forums are very mild in comparison to GW2 or SWTOR.

I am not blaming all the shortcomings and criticisms of the game on rival players. I am saying the acknowledgement of the criticisms is already there, so why do we need to be reminded? People need a reason to hit the forum and scorn a game. With a lot of the criticism there is next to no valid reasoning. We are just being told what we already know. Mediocre reviews, yeah we get that. Bugs, yeah the game has those. What are we being told that we don't know or haven't already acknowledged. Nobody is making out the is a brilliant game, all they are saying is it's fun.

For the most part I don't see valid criticism, most of the time I see snide comments and flippant remarks. Links to low scoring reviews, threads that are just antagonistic in nature. I just think this isn't a game that should polarize opinion. If you like it fair enough, if you don't fair enough. But I also say don't rule out relationship management in these instances. There is almost an effort to polarize opinion. Which with games like GW2 or SWTOR I can understand, but with this not so much. Its fun shoot and loot MMO, who had high expectations of this game? How have expectations not been met? What reason is there to bitch about this game?

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Originally posted by fallenlords

Originally posted by Bigdaddyx

You keep on generalising that is the problem. Blaming all the shortcomings and criticms of the game on rival players hardly leaves any room for prudent discussion. If you know game has flaws then why such black and white thinking? there is hardly any hate about this game unless valid crticism is also considered hate. Your whole premises about 'hate' for the game is based on pure speculation considering the forums are very mild in comparison to GW2 or SWTOR.

I am not blaming all the shortcomings and criticisms of the game on rival players. I am saying the acknowledgement of the criticisms is already there, so why do we need to be reminded? People need a reason to hit the forum and scorn a game. With a lot of the criticism there is next to no valid reasoning. We are just being told what we already know. Mediocre reviews, yeah we get that. Bugs, yeah the game has those. What are we being told that we don't know or haven't already acknowledged. Nobody is making out the is a brilliant game, all they are saying is it's fun.

For the most part I don't see valid criticism, most of the time I see snide comments and flippant remarks. Links to low scoring reviews, threads that are just antagonistic in nature. I just think this isn't a game that should polarize opinion. If you like it fair enough, if you don't fair enough. But I also say don't rule out relationship management in these instances. There is almost an effort to polarize opinion. Which with games like GW2 or SWTOR I can understand, but with this not so much. Its fun shoot and loot MMO, who had high expectations of this game? How have expectations not been met? What reason is there to bitch about this game?

I don't know maybe the same reason you continued to complain even after 3 years of AOC release? people already knew everything and the problems of the game but you decided to make them realise about it anyways on daily basis. So maybe you are right when people are angry and disappointed they need a reason to hit the forums and scorn the game. No one should know it better than you.

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Originally posted by Bigdaddy

I don't know maybe the same reason you continued to complain even after 3 years of AOC release? people already knew everything and the problems of the game but you decided to make them realise about it anyways on daily basis. So maybe you are right when people are angry and disappointed they need a reason to hit the forums and scorn the game. No one should know it better than you.

I continued to complain because I got officially silenced on the official forum with a permanent ban. I got that ban not for abusing other users or being vitriolic in my banter, I got it for being overtly negative. At that time the expansion had been released, which I had pre-ordered with a year sub giving me closed beta access to TSW (which was a lie). I couldn't play it because there was a memory leak. When I requested a refund, not an unreasonable request considering the circumstances, I was told I could have free game time for a game I couldn't play. Funcom didn't supply a workaround to the memory issue a user did, their response was to upgrade to a 64bit client even though they were suppose to support a 32bit client. Not to mention a game they took in the complete opposite to the direction the fans wanted, a journalist for a Game Director, lies about going free to play etc etc. I never once tried to hide this fact and never once tried to hide my motives. Then to add insult to injury they launch TSW but not on the promised Xbox platform which was why I had an initial interest. Lets not forget insider trading with the Ex Ceo, sub model on TSW quickly turned to B2p when it didn't sell...altogether these guys are clowns.

If people have had similar problems with Trion then lets here it. If somebody has a legitimate reason to be hating on them, fine. But that's not what I am seeing. All I see is people putting the game down with the same recycled reasons, or being snide about the game. Either say what you mean or at least give us some insight into why you think the way you think. Everybody is entitled to an opinion but the whole point of expressing an opinion on a forum is discussion.

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i have not really seen any HATE,that is a pretty harsh word,all i have seen is across the board complaints of the game being too small.

As to DLC ,i think i also heard they are charging for that.

IF they do that can add up to a ton of money for what might end up still being only half or 3/4 a product 100 bucks later.

If content is going to be free [which i hardly doubt] then it will eventually have some value.

My problem is ,i let cheap game development bother me and a lot.If i see ANY idea or object done half ass,i feel like ,i am outa here,this is a lazy cheap designer.The ONLY part i don't really care about is the initial character customization. I do care about stats and Racial but not the tattoos or decals you stick on their face.The rest of the body does not matter one bit,since you cover it up with gear.

I know watching videos is not a tell all,but from what i have seen of Defiance,i sort of share the same analogy,the game is not worth it's value...YET.

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Originally posted by fallenlords

Originally posted by Bigdaddy

I don't know maybe the same reason you continued to complain even after 3 years of AOC release? people already knew everything and the problems of the game but you decided to make them realise about it anyways on daily basis. So maybe you are right when people are angry and disappointed they need a reason to hit the forums and scorn the game. No one should know it better than you.

I continued to complain because I got officially silenced on the official forum with a permanent ban. I got that ban not for abusing other users or being vitriolic in my banter, I got it for being overtly negative. At that time the expansion had been released, which I had pre-ordered with a year sub giving me closed beta access to TSW (which was a lie). I couldn't play it because there was a memory leak. When I requested a refund, not an unreasonable request considering the circumstances, I was told I could have free game time for a game I couldn't play. Funcom didn't supply a workaround to the memory issue a user did, their response was to upgrade to a 64bit client even though they were suppose to support a 32bit client. Not to mention a game they took in the complete opposite to the direction the fans wanted, a journalist for a Game Director, lies about going free to play etc etc. I never once tried to hide this fact and never once tried to hide my motives. Then to add insult to injury they launch TSW but not on the promised Xbox platform which was why I had an initial interest. Lets not forget insider trading with the Ex Ceo, sub model on TSW quickly turned to B2p when it didn't sell...altogether these guys are clowns.

If people have had similar problems with Trion then lets here it. If somebody has a legitimate reason to be hating on them, fine. But that's not what I am seeing. All I see is people putting the game down with the same recycled reasons, or being snide about the game. Either say what you mean or at least give us some insight into why you think the way you think. Everybody is entitled to an opinion but the whole point of expressing an opinion on a forum is discussion.

I really don't need justification behind your vendetta against AOC and FC. Every person thinks that their reason are the most legitimate. So you are in no position to question anyones motive here for criticising the game. Official forums is full of legitimate reasons like resetting of skills to 0, peole losing their full moded orange and purple weapons..people who are still unable to log in and play the game due to poor client and patcher. There are a lot of reasons why people are angry and upset and would also love to have a refun but they can not because there is no refund policy.

So please like i said earlier you are the last person to ask anyone around here for a 'legitimate" reason to criticise the game. So far the impression i get is that all your hate for AOC and FC is justfieid but if someone has issues with Trion they first need to make sure their issues are legitimate. Because obviously your problems were bigger and more serious than all the defiance players.

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Defiance Hate, can't really say i've seen any, which is a bit surprising, sure Angry Joe did a review of the game, but his biggest gripe with the game was the patcher problems at launch and how Trion ended up taking him a USB with the game on it, which is probably more CS than the average user can expect

but as for the game itself, even though his review did point out a few things it was even so, a fairly positive review, the only reason i havent bought the game myself is because i have no interest in 3rd person shooters. If i did then it would probably have been on my buy list.

perhaps the OP should rename the thread as 'Why the LACK of Defiance hate'

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Originally posted by Bigdaddyx

I really don't need justification behind your vendetta against AOC and FC. Every person thinks that their reason are the most legitimate. So you are in no position to question anyones motive here for criticising the game. Official forums is full of legitimate reasons like resetting of skills to 0, peole losing their full moded orange and purple weapons..people who are still unable to log in and play the game due to poor client and patcher. There are a lot of reasons why people are angry and upset and would also love to have a refun but they can not because there is no refund policy.

So please like i said earlier you are the last person to ask anyone around here for a 'legitimate" reason to criticise the game. So far the impression i get is that all your hate for AOC and FC is justfieid but if someone has issues with Trion they first need to make sure their issues are legitimate. Because obviously your problems were bigger and more serious than all the defiance players.

I am not justifying it to you because I don't need to do that, I am telling you some of the partial reasons. I would need to write an essay to summaries all the reasons why I think Funcom should burn and why they are in a different league to Trion and most other MMO developers.

Like I say with Defiance I am interested in hearing the reasons. Not just ones you decide to cherry pick from the official forums. Not saying people have to give legitimate reasons, just saying if you post to a forum you are initiating or taking part in a discussion. If you voice an opinion, then it makes sense on a forum to let people know where you are coming from. I am cautious of anybody that posts negative banter without good reason, just as I am cautious about anybody that posts positive banter without good reason.

Like it or not shills exist, though may not be acknowledged, and they are not just there to big up a game they are there to put rival games down. I look at the people attacking Defiance and try to see where they are coming from. I noticed a bit of pattern going on, which strangely is linked to my old nemesis. So yeah I am going to be vocal on this one. Because a) I can see Defiance having an impact on their user base b) I am 99% sure they use shills (look at Metacritic user score bump) c) I like discussions.

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Originally posted by fallenlords

Originally posted by Bigdaddyx

I really don't need justification behind your vendetta against AOC and FC. Every person thinks that their reason are the most legitimate. So you are in no position to question anyones motive here for criticising the game. Official forums is full of legitimate reasons like resetting of skills to 0, peole losing their full moded orange and purple weapons..people who are still unable to log in and play the game due to poor client and patcher. There are a lot of reasons why people are angry and upset and would also love to have a refun but they can not because there is no refund policy.

So please like i said earlier you are the last person to ask anyone around here for a 'legitimate" reason to criticise the game. So far the impression i get is that all your hate for AOC and FC is justfieid but if someone has issues with Trion they first need to make sure their issues are legitimate. Because obviously your problems were bigger and more serious than all the defiance players.

I am not justifying it to you because I don't need to do that, I am telling you some of the partial reasons. I would need to write an essay to summaries all the reasons why I think Funcom should burn and why they are in a different league to Trion and most other MMO developers.

Like I say with Defiance I am interested in hearing the reasons. Not just ones you decide to cherry pick from the official forums. Not saying people have to give legitimate reasons, just saying if you post to a forum you are initiating or taking part in a discussion. If you voice an opinion, then it makes sense on a forum to let people know where you are coming from. I am cautious of anybody that posts negative banter without good reason, just as I am cautious about anybody that posts positive banter without good reason.

Like it or not shills exist, though may not be acknowledged, and they are not just there to big up a game they are there to put rival games down. I look at the people attacking Defiance and try to see where they are coming from. I noticed a bit of pattern going on, which strangely is linked to my old nemesis. So yeah I am going to be vocal on this one. Because a) I can see Defiance having an impact on their user base b) I am 99% sure they use shills (look at Metacritic user score bump) c) I like discussions.

You can write a long essay but it won't matter. People who are having problems with Defiance don't need to compare their experinces with that of yours in order to complain. For you in your mind you were completely justified and same goes for current defiance players.

As far as cherry picking the issues. Those are the most common ones and game breaking issues.And i am one of the players to whom it happened (and i already mentioned it in IGN thread yesterday). It is very easy to confuse people with shills around here though I am pretty sure you ahve been called the same on more than one ocassion.

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Originally posted by Bigdaddyx

You can write a long essay but it won't matter. People who are having problems with Defiance don't need to compare their experinces with that of yours in order to complain. For you in your mind you were completely justified and same goes for current defiance players.

As far as cherry picking the issues. Those are the most common ones and game breaking issues.And i am one of the players to whom it happened (and i already mentioned it in IGN thread yesterday). It is very easy to confuse people with shills around here though I am pretty sure you ahve been called the same on more than one ocassion.

Didn't say the people having problems with Defiance need to compare their experiences. As I keep saying I would just like to hear more reasoning behind some of their arguments. And not see a particular developer pop up nearly every time somebody is sticking the knife in on Defiance. Because I see a bit of a pattern forming.

And as for your game breaking issues, unable to login is an issue I will grant you. But missing inventory items and skills being reset are hardly 'game breaking'. Something a GM could sort out I would imagine. Free respec on skills by all accounts there if you want it - bit of a result, I spent 7k scrip on that yesterday.

As for me I have never been accused of being a shill, as far as I know, what about you? I have been accused of being a troll and I can understand how some of my posts may be considered to lean that way. But in essence I just speak my mind which gets me into trouble, and I am open about my detest for a certain developer and the reasons.

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Originally posted by fallenlords

Originally posted by Bigdaddyx

You can write a long essay but it won't matter. People who are having problems with Defiance don't need to compare their experinces with that of yours in order to complain. For you in your mind you were completely justified and same goes for current defiance players.

As far as cherry picking the issues. Those are the most common ones and game breaking issues.And i am one of the players to whom it happened (and i already mentioned it in IGN thread yesterday). It is very easy to confuse people with shills around here though I am pretty sure you ahve been called the same on more than one ocassion.

Didn't say the people having problems with Defiance need to compare their experiences. As I keep saying I would just like to hear more reasoning behind some of their arguments. And not see a particular developer pop up nearly every time somebody is sticking the knife in on Defiance. Because I see a bit of a pattern forming.

And as for your game breaking issues, unable to login is an issue I will grant you. But missing inventory items and skills being reset are hardly 'game breaking'. Something a GM could sort out I would imagine. Free respec on skills by all accounts there if you want it - bit of a result, I spent 7k scrip on that yesterday.

As for me I have never been accused of being a shill, as far as I know, what about you? I have been accused of being a troll and I can understand how some of my posts may be considered to lean that way. But in essence I just speak my mind which gets me into trouble, and I am open about my detest for a certain developer and the reasons.

What? I like the game BUT, missing inventory items and reset skills are clearly game breaking.

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Originally posted by Daranar

I recently bought Defiance on GMG for $33. Seriously good price, go get it. Anyway, I just started playing this morning until server update right now. I really don't understand all the hate against the game. This is seriously a very good enjoyable game. I'm sure as with ANY themepark, it will run out of content and possibly fast. However, they are saying there will be some serious DLC action coming. But other than that, why hate? To me it is a great mix between Borderlands and Gears of War in an MMO.

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Originally posted by BrucyBonu

What? I like the game BUT, missing inventory items and reset skills are clearly game breaking.

Game breaking, are you serious? The missing inventory items has been acknowledged as a bug. Skill reset, it's not a complicated matrix of skills and you are losing some unique build or something. A main perk and a few minors ones. I can see these issues offering some minor annoyance at best.

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I enjoy this game but the simple fact of the matter is this site has a rep for ego brutality when it comes to games. The haters hate with a passion. The best thing you can do is play a game for yourself and decide for yourself. If it cost money, wait till the price goes down. Remember the only opinion that matters is yours.

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Originally posted by fallenlords

Originally posted by Bigdaddyx

You can write a long essay but it won't matter. People who are having problems with Defiance don't need to compare their experinces with that of yours in order to complain. For you in your mind you were completely justified and same goes for current defiance players.

As far as cherry picking the issues. Those are the most common ones and game breaking issues.And i am one of the players to whom it happened (and i already mentioned it in IGN thread yesterday). It is very easy to confuse people with shills around here though I am pretty sure you ahve been called the same on more than one ocassion.

Didn't say the people having problems with Defiance need to compare their experiences. As I keep saying I would just like to hear more reasoning behind some of their arguments. And not see a particular developer pop up nearly every time somebody is sticking the knife in on Defiance. Because I see a bit of a pattern forming.

And as for your game breaking issues, unable to login is an issue I will grant you. But missing inventory items and skills being reset are hardly 'game breaking'. Something a GM could sort out I would imagine. Free respec on skills by all accounts there if you want it - bit of a result, I spent 7k scrip on that yesterday.

As for me I have never been accused of being a shill, as far as I know, what about you? I have been accused of being a troll and I can understand how some of my posts may be considered to lean that way. But in essence I just speak my mind which gets me into trouble, and I am open about my detest for a certain developer and the reasons.

Takes a long time level up skills. I reached lvl 18 on my LMG which got reset back to 0, same for my roller. Maybe for you it is minor annoyance but it is game breaking for me and many others. I have already sent two tickets for missing items bu they told me that they can not replace the fully moded rare weapons. I had to open atleast 20 tier 3 lock boxes to get the weapons i needed. I am not going to do that all over again.

No wonder this is your attitude towards other problems when you consider it 'minor annoyances'.