What do you guys think of eating a vegan diet for acne and health in general? What do you think of the arguments vegan make about their diet being the ideal diet for humans? Also, I'm not talking about a junky vegan diet full of processed stuff. I'm talking about a vegan diet with lots of plan based foods.

I am quite against vegan diets. Animal products have so many nutrients, and the macromolecular composition is much safer than plant products (fat is the safest macromolecule). While it's true that plants have a far superior antioxidant profile, they also have a lot of dangerous proteins that are specifically produce to interfere with our digestion, from taste to inhibition of nutrient absorption. They are also almost universally higher in carbohydrates, which leads to more oxidative damage.

There are plenty of arguments from evolution that also do not favor a vegan diet, but I won't begin to mention those. What is worth mentioning, however, is that a vegan diet is essentially impossible without supplementation due to a lack of vitamin B12 in plants. Several vitamins are also only fat-soluble, which makes it a little more difficult to get the most out of your meals, especially when your digestive enzymes are being inhibited by plant proteins commonly found in things like nuts, seeds, and legumes.

I would say, though, that plants have a necessary role in any diet. They are incredibly rich in many nutrients, and the antioxidants help to dampen the negative consequences of eating meat (these consequences are mostly present in modern meats because of how the animals are fed and processed. Feed crops absorb toxins from the environment (including pesticides and heavy metals) and are fed in massive quantities to the animals, which accumulate the toxins in addition to some of their own (vaccinations and antibiotics). Humans then eat the meat, and accumulate these toxins over many decades. This is not a detriment of the meat itself, but rather a consequence of being an apex predator in polluted land and sea).

A vegan diet for general health would probably lead to malnourishment unless one makes concessions, such as eating large quantities of legumes (take a careful look at this picture of a soybean; those are not hairs on the pods, but razor sharp spikes. Walk through a soybean field around the time of harvest and your legs will bleed: http://thenaturalfar...es/SoyBeans.jpg), excessive polyunsaturated vegetable oils (easily oxidized, quite bad for you), or egregious quantities of yeast (gotta get those B vitamins). For acne, I can't see it helping much either. In fact, because acne is a disease driven by a dysregulated immune system, a vegan diet might cause more damage in certain people because of all the antigenic foods (wheat, soy, peanuts, etc). If someone is getting acne because they are deficient in a particular vitamin, a vegan diet *could* help, but so too could any diet with that has plants as a part of it. Steamed meats are incredibly safe to eat; think about it - how many people have made the observation that their breakouts may be tied to unseasoned chicken, or white fish? And how many have made the observation that it's a plant food - citrus, strawberries, wheat, nightshades, nuts, soy, etc? The balance is shifted in favor of animal products.

But of course, as with all things, moderation; if all you eat is salami, you'll have a much higher chance of ending up with hypertension and colon cancer.

Do you have any issue digesting properly cooked legumes? Because if you can't live on them, and you aren't going to eat a lot of vegan faux protein foods, then you'll have to eat of a lot of food to get your protein.

Why do you want to do this? Unless you have an issue digesting fats or something, a vegan diet isn't going to do anything special for your acne.

Nutrient dense, anti-inflammatory, nothing minimal dairy, especially unfermented dairy. To be anti-inflammatory it does need to be plant based and low to mod GI., and of course, not include anything you have an intolerance for. That's what you need to do. However you want to do it.

Edited by alternativista, 26 April 2014 - 06:38 PM.

Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

I am quite against vegan diets. Animal products have so many nutrients, and the macromolecular composition is much safer than plant products (fat is the safest macromolecule). While it's true that plants have a far superior antioxidant profile, they also have a lot of dangerous proteins that are specifically produce to interfere with our digestion, from taste to inhibition of nutrient absorption. They are also almost universally higher in carbohydrates, which leads to more oxidative damage.

There are plenty of arguments from evolution that also do not favor a vegan diet, but I won't begin to mention those. What is worth mentioning, however, is that a vegan diet is essentially impossible without supplementation due to a lack of vitamin B12 in plants. Several vitamins are also only fat-soluble, which makes it a little more difficult to get the most out of your meals, especially when your digestive enzymes are being inhibited by plant proteins commonly found in things like nuts, seeds, and legumes.

I would say, though, that plants have a necessary role in any diet. They are incredibly rich in many nutrients, and the antioxidants help to dampen the negative consequences of eating meat (these consequences are mostly present in modern meats because of how the animals are fed and processed. Feed crops absorb toxins from the environment (including pesticides and heavy metals) and are fed in massive quantities to the animals, which accumulate the toxins in addition to some of their own (vaccinations and antibiotics). Humans then eat the meat, and accumulate these toxins over many decades. This is not a detriment of the meat itself, but rather a consequence of being an apex predator in polluted land and sea).

A vegan diet for general health would probably lead to malnourishment unless one makes concessions, such as eating large quantities of legumes (take a careful look at this picture of a soybean; those are not hairs on the pods, but razor sharp spikes. Walk through a soybean field around the time of harvest and your legs will bleed: http://thenaturalfar...es/SoyBeans.jpg), excessive polyunsaturated vegetable oils (easily oxidized, quite bad for you), or egregious quantities of yeast (gotta get those B vitamins). For acne, I can't see it helping much either. In fact, because acne is a disease driven by a dysregulated immune system, a vegan diet might cause more damage in certain people because of all the antigenic foods (wheat, soy, peanuts, etc). If someone is getting acne because they are deficient in a particular vitamin, a vegan diet *could* help, but so too could any diet with that has plants as a part of it. Steamed meats are incredibly safe to eat; think about it - how many people have made the observation that their breakouts may be tied to unseasoned chicken, or white fish? And how many have made the observation that it's a plant food - citrus, strawberries, wheat, nightshades, nuts, soy, etc? The balance is shifted in favor of animal products.

But of course, as with all things, moderation; if all you eat is salami, you'll have a much higher chance of ending up with hypertension and colon cancer.

Thanks for the very detailed reply! I actually am interested in the arguments against a vegan diet. Would you mind sharing them? I have read that in the past a vegan diet would have been possible without supplementation of B12 because B12 was found on unwashed fruit and veggies. What are your thoughts on this? The reason I was interested in trying a vegan diet is because I've heard of many people with PCOS (which I have) having success with it. I'm not sure if this is true, but maybe animal hormones in the meat we eat could affect our own hormones?

Do you have any issue digesting properly cooked legumes? Because if you can't live on them, and you aren't going to eat a lot of vegan faux protein foods, then you'll have to eat of a lot of food to get your protein.

Why do you want to do this? Unless you have an issue digesting fats or something, a vegan diet isn't going to do anything special for your diet.

Nutrient dense, anti-inflammatory, nothing minimal dairy, especially unfermented dairy. To be anti-inflammatory it does need to be plant based and low to mod GI., and of course, not include anything you have an intolerance for. That's what you need to do. However you want to do it.

Thanks for the reply. I don't think I have any issues with legumes. I've been eating a lot of them lately, and I do have more bloating than usual, but other than that no issues.

I'd like to try this because a regular low gi diet is not completely eliminating issues I have from having PCOS. For example, my hair is still getting oily and so is my hair. I also sweat a little more than I'd like to and have hair in a few places I wish I didn't. I read that some people with PCOS have luck with a vegan diet so I thought I'd try it. I'm not sure, but maybe it is possible for the hormones in animals to affect the hormones in us? I think that so far I am experiencing some success. My hair and face are feeling much less oily.

I am quite against vegan diets. Animal products have so many nutrients, and the macromolecular composition is much safer than plant products (fat is the safest macromolecule). While it's true that plants have a far superior antioxidant profile, they also have a lot of dangerous proteins that are specifically produce to interfere with our digestion, from taste to inhibition of nutrient absorption. They are also almost universally higher in carbohydrates, which leads to more oxidative damage.

There are plenty of arguments from evolution that also do not favor a vegan diet, but I won't begin to mention those. What is worth mentioning, however, is that a vegan diet is essentially impossible without supplementation due to a lack of vitamin B12 in plants. Several vitamins are also only fat-soluble, which makes it a little more difficult to get the most out of your meals, especially when your digestive enzymes are being inhibited by plant proteins commonly found in things like nuts, seeds, and legumes.

I would say, though, that plants have a necessary role in any diet. They are incredibly rich in many nutrients, and the antioxidants help to dampen the negative consequences of eating meat (these consequences are mostly present in modern meats because of how the animals are fed and processed. Feed crops absorb toxins from the environment (including pesticides and heavy metals) and are fed in massive quantities to the animals, which accumulate the toxins in addition to some of their own (vaccinations and antibiotics). Humans then eat the meat, and accumulate these toxins over many decades. This is not a detriment of the meat itself, but rather a consequence of being an apex predator in polluted land and sea).

A vegan diet for general health would probably lead to malnourishment unless one makes concessions, such as eating large quantities of legumes (take a careful look at this picture of a soybean; those are not hairs on the pods, but razor sharp spikes. Walk through a soybean field around the time of harvest and your legs will bleed: http://thenaturalfar...es/SoyBeans.jpg), excessive polyunsaturated vegetable oils (easily oxidized, quite bad for you), or egregious quantities of yeast (gotta get those B vitamins). For acne, I can't see it helping much either. In fact, because acne is a disease driven by a dysregulated immune system, a vegan diet might cause more damage in certain people because of all the antigenic foods (wheat, soy, peanuts, etc). If someone is getting acne because they are deficient in a particular vitamin, a vegan diet *could* help, but so too could any diet with that has plants as a part of it. Steamed meats are incredibly safe to eat; think about it - how many people have made the observation that their breakouts may be tied to unseasoned chicken, or white fish? And how many have made the observation that it's a plant food - citrus, strawberries, wheat, nightshades, nuts, soy, etc? The balance is shifted in favor of animal products.

But of course, as with all things, moderation; if all you eat is salami, you'll have a much higher chance of ending up with hypertension and colon cancer.

Thanks for the very detailed reply! I actually am interested in the arguments against a vegan diet. Would you mind sharing them? I have read that in the past a vegan diet would have been possible without supplementation of B12 because B12 was found on unwashed fruit and veggies. What are your thoughts on this? The reason I was interested in trying a vegan diet is because I've heard of many people with PCOS (which I have) having success with it. I'm not sure if this is true, but maybe animal hormones in the meat we eat could affect our own hormones?

I haven't seen any evidence for the B12 from dirt argument. I'm inclined to think it's just a myth perpetuated by those who want to condemn the consumption of animal products at all logical costs. I did a quick google search and people on several vegan forums are saying it's a myth, so that's what I'll assume for now.

Some hormones are proteins, others are made from cholesterol. The protein hormones would be destroyed by cooking and then further degraded by stomach acid. The cholesterol hormones (ex: estrogen) are not destroyed by cooking, and are instead absorbed and rapidly metabolized. I would say that there is a small chance that animal hormones could affect you; but one must remember that plenty of plant foods contain things like phytoestrogens (estrogen mimics; found especially in soy) that would probably be not only more prevalent, but also more potent.

For PCOS, I'm not sure if diet would necessarily impact it either way. There seems to be some evidence for weight loss helping with the condition, and this would be much easier on a paleo diet than on a vegan diet, unless you're willing to starve yourself. Beyond that, it's all anecdotes. If you google 'vegan PCOS' and 'paleo PCOS' you'll see plenty of results for each.

We do not have a leafy plant aversion. Bipedalism is also beneficial for gathering plant foods.. And quadrupeds are damn good hunters and very good at running down prey. Faster than you can. Intestinal length and teeth are arguments against carnivourism. We evolved to be omnivores.

But yes, plants have a great deal of hormones. Including androgens & estrogens. Usually in balance. You can get b12 from fermented foods.

Paige, are you perhaps hyperthyroid?

Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

We do not have a leafy plant aversion. Bipedalism is also beneficial for gathering plant foods.. And quadrupeds are damn good hunters and very good at running down prey. Faster than you can. Intestinal length and teeth are arguments against carnivourism. We evolved to be omnivores.

But yes, plants have a great deal of hormones. Including androgens & estrogens. Usually in balance. You can get b12 from fermented foods.

Paige, are you perhaps hyperthyroid?

I've had my thyroid levels tested before because I thought I had a lot of symptoms of a thyroid problem, but according to the doctor they were normal. Thyroid diseases do run in my family, though. This includes hyperthyroid, hypothroid, and autoimmune thyroid diseases.

What my blood work has revealed in the past is that I have high testosterone and moderately high prolactin levels. My doctor said my high prolactin levels were not an issue, though. I also have high DHEA levels in the past, but the last time I had those checked they were normal.

I'm a normal weight, actually a bit underweight. My doctor diagnosed me with PCOS even though no cysts were found on my ovaries. He said that my extra hair, oily skin, acne, sweating, and testosterone levels were enough to make the diagnosis.

I'm not one to smash people who eat meat, I occasionally do now, and I'm not one to go around promoting vegan-ism but I did go vegan for a month and my skin was the clearest it's ever been. I guess it all depends on your previous diet and how you eat while going vegan. I know a few overweight vegetarians because they would eat large amounts of cheese or carbs to substitute for other things. It's very tricky when first switching over to vegetarian/vegan. Understanding what you can and can't eat etc. But it gets easier over time and my tastes buds got "better" if you will. I noticed myself tasting food better and making love to peaches and certain vegetables. Your body learns to crave different things. You just have to make sure to eat a balanced diet even on a vegetarian diet. Just as if you were trying to eat healthy as a non-vegan. Not eating meat doesn't automatically make you healthy. As for the whole B-12 thing I won't get into it much but you can still get it through certain foods and believe it was accessible through soil and such when we used to not grow everything out of chemical soil. It's a messy conversation but I took a supplement like once a week while going vegan just to be safe. I used to have really oily skin and that stopped as well at the fear of looking in the mirror every morning because there used to always be anywhere from 1-10 new whiteheads when I woke up. It could be that I really watched what I was eating and ate a TON more fruits and veggies because well I had to. I was hungry haha. Or the vegetarian thing just really worked for me. Either way it worked for ME. As for you? Not so sure. If you think you can handle it, give it a try. If anything it would probably be a good detox period for your body. Let me know if you have any questions and good luck!

A Vegan diet helps some people better than others. It depends a lot on your skin type and your diet before hand.

Since I became a vegan my skin got much much better, then a few months ago I started eating dairy again and broke out. Maybe it was a coincidence, I don't know. But i am back on a vegan diet.

Now as for meat being the best thing for you blah blah blah, believe what you want but you can be perfectly healthy and vegan. I have gone to the doctors multiple times when I was a vegan because my mom want to check to make sure I was okay (haha) and every time blood tests, etc. came out perfectly normal. I had even lost 10 pounds that i really didn't need.

The reason a vegan diet MAY help your skin is the hormones in milk (you can't deny this because there is proven research). The hormones in milk can overload your body with all this stuff that you really don't need and 'cause it to flip out. This effects some people more than others.

Now, i am not a wiz in this. I don't have 10,000 facts to give you. But research those facts for yourself about milk hormones and acne and you will find studies. I know a vegan diet isn't for everyone and it is very hard but if you find it is something you want to try then slowly cut out cow's milk. you don't have to do no eggs look through every ingredient to make sure there is no trace of animal bi-product.

Something like veganism is a thing your going to fund everyone has a different opinion on, so i advise you to just research for yourself because you are the one that will make the best choices for your own health (-:

We do not have a leafy plant aversion. Bipedalism is also beneficial for gathering plant foods.. And quadrupeds are damn good hunters and very good at running down prey. Faster than you can. Intestinal length and teeth are arguments against carnivourism. We evolved to be omnivores.

But yes, plants have a great deal of hormones. Including androgens & estrogens. Usually in balance. You can get b12 from fermented foods.

Paige, are you perhaps hyperthyroid?

There are plenty of quadrupeds that hunt, yes, but they hunt differently than we do. We run our prey to exhaustion over a longer period of time; quadruped hunters are built for intense bursts of incredible speed. The method is different. Also, most plant-eating animals, especially grazers are quadrupeds.

We do have a leafy plant aversion. I'm not sure why you think we don't. It isn't difficult to feed kids chicken breast sauteed in butter, but it's much more difficult to feed them steamed broccoli. Our taste buds are designed to sense the bitter alkaloids in plant leaves and produce a negative cognitive response. That's pretty much the definition of an innate aversion. Sure, we can get used to them. I sure have. I used to never eat vegetables (despite being fed them as a baby). Now I eat salads almost every day.

Intestinal length and teeth are arguments against carnivorism, sure, but I'm not arguing for carnivorism. I'm arguing for omnivorism. Our intestines are shorter than herbivores and longer than carnivores. We have canines and molars. Surely one cannot extrapolate from this that humans evolved to eat only plants?

We do not have a leafy plant aversion. Bipedalism is also beneficial for gathering plant foods.. And quadrupeds are damn good hunters and very good at running down prey. Faster than you can. Intestinal length and teeth are arguments against carnivourism. We evolved to be omnivores.

But yes, plants have a great deal of hormones. Including androgens & estrogens. Usually in balance. You can get b12 from fermented foods.

Paige, are you perhaps hyperthyroid?

There are plenty of quadrupeds that hunt, yes, but they hunt differently than we do. We run our prey to exhaustion over a longer period of time; quadruped hunters are built for intense bursts of incredible speed. The method is different. Also, most plant-eating animals, especially grazers are quadrupeds.

We do have a leafy plant aversion. I'm not sure why you think we don't. It isn't difficult to feed kids chicken breast sauteed in butter, but it's much more difficult to feed them steamed broccoli. Our taste buds are designed to sense the bitter alkaloids in plant leaves and produce a negative cognitive response. That's pretty much the definition of an innate aversion. Sure, we can get used to them. I sure have. I used to never eat vegetables (despite being fed them as a baby). Now I eat salads almost every day.

Intestinal length and teeth are arguments against carnivorism, sure, but I'm not arguing for carnivorism. I'm arguing for omnivorism. Our intestines are shorter than herbivores and longer than carnivores. We have canines and molars. Surely one cannot extrapolate from this that humans evolved to eat only plants?

Couldn't you also say we have a raw meat aversion? Also, don't many other herbivore also have canines?

We do not have a leafy plant aversion. Bipedalism is also beneficial for gathering plant foods.. And quadrupeds are damn good hunters and very good at running down prey. Faster than you can. Intestinal length and teeth are arguments against carnivorousism. We evolved to be omnivores.

But yes, plants have a great deal of hormones. Including androgens & estrogens. Usually in balance. You can get b12 from fermented foods.

Paige, are you perhaps hyperthyroid?

There are plenty of quadrupeds that hunt, yes, but they hunt differently than we do. We run our prey to exhaustion over a longer period of time; quadruped hunters are built for intense bursts of incredible speed. The method is different. Also, most plant-eating animals, especially grazers are quadrupeds.

We do have a leafy plant aversion. I'm not sure why you think we don't. It isn't difficult to feed kids chicken breast sauteed in butter, but it's much more difficult to feed them steamed broccoli. Our taste buds are designed to sense the bitter alkaloids in plant leaves and produce a negative cognitive response. That's pretty much the definition of an innate aversion. Sure, we can get used to them. I sure have. I used to never eat vegetables (despite being fed them as a baby). Now I eat salads almost every day.

Intestinal length and teeth are arguments against carnivorism, sure, but I'm not arguing for carnivorism. I'm arguing for omnivorism. Our intestines are shorter than herbivores and longer than carnivores. We have canines and molars. Surely one cannot extrapolate from this that humans evolved to eat only plants?

That the animals get exhausted has nothing to do with the number of legs. It;'s about how we dissipate heat. And pretty near all land animals are quadrupeds. Mammals & reptiles at least.

Loved broccoli my entire life. Babies happily eat mashed veggies. Anyway, it's a cultural thing. Parents do stupid things in the transition from jarred baby food to chicken tenders & mac and cheese. When I was in England, I observed that the children don't want to eat meat. If you notice, at the end of the Pink Floyd song Brick in the Wall, they are shouting about not getting any pudding (dessert) if they don't eat their meat. All our closest relatives eat a great deal of leafy vegetables. And they don't eat a lot of meat.

No one has said we evolved to eat only plants so I don't know why you are even arguing about it.. In fact, I specifically said that teeth & intestinal length are arguments that we are omnivores. It's a big planet, we spread to many places and adapted to many diets. The OP merely wants to try being a vegan.

Edited by alternativista, 29 April 2014 - 05:53 PM.

Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

Some herbivores have canines for a few specializations. Hippos, for example, use them to fight each other and attack other creatures. Camels use theirs to snap branches. Javelinas use theirs to shred cacti. Considering that we don't use our teeth to fight each other (not like our short canines would provide an advantage anyway), we can't digest cellulose, and cacti are not a staple in our diet, human canines are probably not evolutionarily conserved for these reasons.

All that is to say that long, sharp teeth have more than one use, but their most common use is for tearing chunks out of meat. The simple fact that humans have canines does not make us meat eaters/omnivores, but it does lend weight to this argument when considered with other pieces of evidence.

About the raw meat aversion, I somewhat agree with this. Then, humans have been cooking meat for about 2 millions years, so it might be reasonable to suggest that this has become somewhat ingrained in our genes. However, I know of a couple cases where people decided to eat only raw meat, and after a few weeks when they tried cooked meat, it tasted burnt to them. So I'm sure there's a little bit of an effect of relativity on taste.

That the animals get exhausted has nothing to do with the number of legs. It;'s about how we dissipate heat. And pretty near all land animals are quadrupeds. Mammals & reptiles at least.

Loved broccoli my entire life. Babies happily eat mashed veggies. Anyway, it's a cultural thing. Parents do stupid things in the transition from jarred baby food to chicken tenders & mac and cheese. When I was in England, I observed that the children don't want to eat meat. If you notice, at the end of the Pink Floyd song Brick in the Wall, they are shouting about not getting any pudding (dessert) if they don't eat their meat. All our closest relatives eat a great deal of leafy vegetables. And they don't eat a lot of meat.

No one has said we evolved to eat only plants so I don't know why you are even arguing about it.. In fact, I specifically said that teeth & intestinal length are arguments that we are omnivores. It's a big planet, we spread to many places and adapted to many diets. The OP merely wants to try being a vegan.

One driving factor behind bipedalism is energy conservation. Bipedal creatures use less energy than quadrupeds to move around. Less energy use = more endurance. Of course, sweating also has a lot to do with our endurance.

I can agree that food aversions can be cultural. But enjoying certain foods can also be culturally driven. If you just look at the base sensations - sweet, sour, bitter, umami, salty - you'll very quickly see that one (or maybe two) of these things are not like the others. We do not like bitter foods. Bitter = unpleasant, by definition. We can learn to eat these foods, but that doesn't change the fact that there are molecules present (often in great quantity) in that food that we have evolved a negative response to. And if you think our current leafy greens are just fine, perhaps you should try some of the leafy greens our ancestors would have found growing out of the ground. Our modern greens are bland compared to what we would have eaten a few million years ago, and even more bland after they're cooked.

Our closest relatives don't eat that much meat, that's correct. But then, the current theory is that we diverged from them because we started to eat meat more, which gave us the energy we needed to feed our larger brains.

Paigems asked for the arguments from evolution concerning meat consumption, and I supplied them. That's all that is happening here. I don't really know why you're fighting this. And because the purpose of this thread is to explore the ideas surrounding veganism and acne/general health, I think it would be perfectly appropriate if I were to suggest that an alternative to veganism might be more beneficial. Of course, if Paigems wants to go ahead with a vegan diet, she is absolutely free to do so. But it seems like she wants to see multiple perspectives on this issue.

We don't like bitter? Then what's with all the coffee and tea drinking? (Children drink these things in many countries) They even burn coffee to make it more bitter. And the lettuce mix trend filled with bitter greens? And herbs flavoring our food. And I love my bitter dark chocolate,

Paige asked about claims of veganism being the ideal diet. To which the answer is, there's really no such thing. All kinds of diets can be ideal if they are base on real, whole nutritious foods. but vegan ism without the faux foods is difficult and means you probably have to be very diligent about getting essential nutrients and consume a great deal of food. Having to eat all day isn't even an ideal situation for a gorilla these days.

We have better hands then our relatives. Better hands along with the bipedalism which frees up the hands means better ability to fiddle with and explore the environment. The exploring and altering and thinking makes brains/intelligence grow. Look at how much smarter an octopus is than a squid.

Edited by alternativista, 30 April 2014 - 09:54 AM.

Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

Thanks everyone for sharing arguments for and against veganism. I appreciate hearing all thoughts and opinions!

I've been eating a vegan diet for about two weeks now, and this is the least oily my skin has ever been.

This makes me really happy to hear. Mainly because I was the same way when I went vegan for a month. I remember the feeling of waking up and my skin being "normal" as opposed to washing all the oil off, or even after a long day and coming home and not being able to wait to clean my face. It was pure bliss.

As said before, this may not work for everyone and not arguing whether we are made to eat meat or not, but just as certain vitamins and supplements work for some people. Certain diets work and don't work for some people. We are all so different and come from different genes and DNA. I hate seeing my friends eat complete crap all day and night and having the best skin ever. Happy to hear you found something that is helping! Keep us updated my friend.

Go for it! Seriously! After being vegan for 3 or so months (I've been vegan for over a year now), I never had acne again. This after taking Accutane, and then Spironolactone! I don't take any meds anymore; I just use retin-a for my pores, which look a million times better now. I think most arguments against veganism are plain silly. I don't have to eat all day, I eat as often and as fast as my family, and they eat meat and dairy and eggs. I eat 2000+ calories a day. My labs are perfect. My weight is perfect. It's super easy. The only thing I supplement is B12; from what I understand, humans of the past were able to get a substantial amount of B12 from the soil, but with current food production practices we need to supplement. All I do is add 2 tbsp. total throughout the day of nutritional yeast to my foods. I'm of the opinion that meat and animal products are downright just not good for us, particularly with how they are produced in our modern day. Plus, the vegan diet is cruelty free. Good luck, and if you have any questions feel free to pm me!

You! Yes, you. The one reading this. You are beautiful, talented, amazing and simply the best at being you. Never forget that.

You don't have to be pretty. You don't owe prettiness to anyone. Not to you boyfriend/spouse/partner. Not to your coworkers, especially not to random men on the street. You don't owe it to your mother, you don't owe it to your children, you don't owe it to civilization in general.Prettiness is not a rent you pay for occupying a space marked "female."

Plea to the world: Eat less meat! Or better yet, don't eat it at all! The meat industry violates basic animal rights, it's destroying our planet, and there are so many health benefits you can gain by decreasing/eliminating meat from your diet. Don't let me tell you- do your own research so you can decide for yourself. (The dairy and egg industries are just as horrendous).