DRS practice and qualifying rules to be changed for 2013 (merged)

I don't think this will ruin overtaking, if you forget DRS when setting you gear ratios you will still lose several tenths of a second in a qualy lap (in the DRS zone), for a minimal gain of perhaps 1 tenth per clean lap in the race with no DRS available. That will drop you several places back in the grid with no way to overtake! Why would you do that? The car may be quicker over the race but if you're going to be stuck there's no point pursuing that strategy.

Ultimately it's all a compromise and the balance will swing slightly to shorter gears, but the fundamentals remain the same - if you shorten the gears then you'd better hope you'll get clean air all race.

removed on safety grounds? drivers could activate it too early on corner exit??? are these guys serious?

let's limit the throttle usage only to straights and drivers should not accelerate unless steering wheel is straight

"One could argue that the early deployment of the DRS is not much different to early deployment of the throttle, but the DRS is an on/off switch whereas the throttle can be modulated."

One reduces drag, the other enhances power. I prefer the latter as it reduces the possibility, that the overtaking driver just blasts past his competitor.

That depends entirely on the amount of power vs. the amount of drag-reduction. And they do already have KERS, you know. Is your idea then that KERS could only used in the situations where DRS can be used now?

That depends entirely on the amount of power vs. the amount of drag-reduction.

I know and right now the drag-reduction effect is too much. Furthermore there will always be a slight difference as push to pass would rather provide better accelaration whereas DRS provides also more top-speed. We can see right now how difficult it is to have the DRS-zone exactly created in a way, that both cars are more or less side by side before the braking point.

And they do already have KERS, you know. Is your idea then that KERS could only used in the situations where DRS can be used now?

No. KERS-usage is still quite limited right now. E.g. instead of a DRS-button the cars could have a second KERS-button, that activates more power than the usual KERS...

Will be interesting to see, what FIA will do about the whole issue, when the Turbos will be back in 2014.

I agree that DRS (and the zones that form part of the system) is something they should drop. It is artificial.
However, my point here is that Charlie says they are banning its current use on Friday and Saturday for 2013 and beyond due to safety concerns.
Well, if it is such a safety problem, ban it NOW.

I agree that DRS (and the zones that form part of the system) is something they should drop. It is artificial.However, my point here is that Charlie says they are banning its current use on Friday and Saturday for 2013 and beyond due to safety concerns. Well, if it is such a safety problem, ban it NOW.

They never said its a HUGE safety problem or anything. Cars this year are designed around DRS, it'd be extreme to tell them to just take it all off now. They're just giving a heads up to teams for 2013, which is a good thing as you wouldn't want to spring it on them too late.

I'm not sure this change was necessary, though. Its going to reduce the effectiveness of DRS quite a bit(for overtaking). I hope they adjust DRS zones accordingly, but seeing how they've handled 'adjusting' DRS zones this year, I dont have much trust it'll happen.

Good good... all goes acording to my plan. Lotus will dominate 2013 with their DRD

And tbh it will hit the cars with superior aero the most. They could open DRS in places where other couldnt, or earlier than the rest. It will be good change for cars like Mercedes, McLaren and Ferrari, and will hurt the most RBR for sure.

Why does everyone think this will hurt Red Bull more than other teams (other than Mercedes, but the banning of their DDRS is more relevant to them)?

Red Bull have only had a DRS advantage since they introduced their own version of the DDRS, but this system was already known to be banned from next year anyway. I actually think it will benefit them relative to the others. During the EBD they had an advantage in qualifying with the DRS open, as they were thought to produce the most downforce from their diffusor/floor, hence could afford to open it earlier and close it later through corners in qualifying. Top speed has been Red Bull's biggest weakness since it became a front running team in 2009. Before their DDRS, this was more pronounced this year than last and one might assume, absent of an amazing passive DDRS, they could again struggle with top speed next year, as their car seems to be optimised to attain a better overall lap time with shorter gearing and or higher downforce/drag relative to other cars at a given circuit.

This weakness has seen Webber and Vettel often struggle to pass on track when stuck behind slower cars (Abu Dhabi an exception for obvious reasons). Valencia springs to mind for Webber, where he couldn't get past Schumacher, but there have been many examples this year.

With this rule change, if teams aren't forced to consider the penalty in qualifying of running into the rev limiter by setting the up 7th gear to be optimised for DRS closed (most of the race, even in the DRS zone[s]), then surely we're going to see teams forced to optimise their gear ratios for qualifying and the majority of the race. Unless it's a marginal disadvantage (doubtful), then laptime ultimately rules, whether you're out in front in a Red Bull or in the midfield, even if they can't pass you on the straight, if you're giving up significant time over the lap, they will get you somewhere - even if it's through pit strategy (not good for racing).

It also takes the edge off the only time these already heavily neutered F1 cars.

One reduces drag, the other enhances power. I prefer the latter as it reduces the possibility, that the overtaking driver just blasts past his competitor.

I WISH F1 would follow WSR's path of using DRS. They give each driver, say, 100 seconds of DRS for the whole race, use it when and how you want but once your out your out. That way it is an overtaking aid but it introduces an element of strategy into it and doesn't overly penalise the driver in front. But maybe thats just too much sense for the FIA to take in, in one go.

They never said its a HUGE safety problem or anything. Cars this year are designed around DRS, it'd be extreme to tell them to just take it all off now. They're just giving a heads up to teams for 2013, which is a good thing as you wouldn't want to spring it on them too late.

I'm not sure this change was necessary, though. Its going to reduce the effectiveness of DRS quite a bit(for overtaking). I hope they adjust DRS zones accordingly, but seeing how they've handled 'adjusting' DRS zones this year, I dont have much trust it'll happen.

No, he didn't say it was huge, but he gave safety as the ONLY reason. Also, they will not "take off" DRS, just not allow them to use it whenever they like. There is no car design issue here. Sometimes I don't understand the safety campaign thing. One freak occurence and we need to overhaul our thinking about the basics of F1 car design, yet the FIA saying free DRS use is dangerous and "we can wait till next year." I am not against safety, I just question the hot/cold approach.

Of course its bloody artifical if only the chasing driver is allowed to use it.

Wrong. Everyone can use it in practice in quali, not just the chasing driver, therefore logic dictates that it's a component of the car that poses a technological challenge. A better-designed DRS will be more beneficial in terms of pace than one that isn't, adding a developmental challenge to it rather than purely introducing it as an overtaking aid. Before, it was a part of the car that could be developed for pace over the course of an entire lap during at least one stage of the weekend, just like any other technology on the car. In comparison, when they limit the use of DRS to just the overtaking zones throughout the weekend, it's hard not to see it as a specialised component designed purely as an artificial overtaking aid--there's no longer any reason to extensively develop it because the pace advantage it would give over such a small section of the track in a qualifying session would be so miniscule as to be pointless. That's the problem I have with this ruling.

I WISH F1 would follow WSR's path of using DRS. They give each driver, say, 100 seconds of DRS for the whole race, use it when and how you want but once your out your out. That way it is an overtaking aid but it introduces an element of strategy into it and doesn't overly penalise the driver in front. But maybe thats just too much sense for the FIA to take in, in one go.

You see, this is when it stops being an artificial overtaking device and starts to make some bit of sense. At least it would be less artificial.

I guess it's only circuits where there is a length non-DRS straight (such as Spa?) where it might have an impact.

With only one DRS straight, teams will prefer bouncing on the limiter all the DRS zone to have decent RPM in the non DRS straight lines. Hope I´m wrong but this isn´t going to change anything about qualifying sessions and will make races worse.

I WISH F1 would follow WSR's path of using DRS. They give each driver, say, 100 seconds of DRS for the whole race, use it when and how you want but once your out your out. That way it is an overtaking aid but it introduces an element of strategy into it and doesn't overly penalise the driver in front. But maybe thats just too much sense for the FIA to take in, in one go.

YES. This. 100%.

It adds strategy to it. I don't like having a 'zone', particularly when it's usually on the best passing place anyway.

I WISH F1 would follow WSR's path of using DRS. They give each driver, say, 100 seconds of DRS for the whole race, use it when and how you want but once your out your out. That way it is an overtaking aid but it introduces an element of strategy into it and doesn't overly penalise the driver in front. But maybe thats just too much sense for the FIA to take in, in one go.

But then Vettel , or whoever's on pole would use it massively for the early laps to get a huge lead and that would be game over. Unless everybody used it as well to keep up, then the whole thing is a bit pointless.

I don't think this matters. The regulations may change to address specific ideas, but you have to have change in order to encourage innovation. The only time there is a problem is when you have a situation like last years mid-season EBD ban. However, the myriad of smaller reg changes during the season are fine as are all reg introductions and modifications for a new season.

I don't think this matters. The regulations may change to address specific ideas, but you have to have change in order to encourage innovation. The only time there is a problem is when you have a situation like last years mid-season EBD ban. However, the myriad of smaller reg changes during the season are fine as are all reg introductions and modifications for a new season.

It's interesting. They're closing another loophole without any new technical opportunities emerging, so we might well be back to the situation at the beginning of the year where everyone's very equal because there's not much scope for unusual development. Except in the mid- and late-season everyone's technical teams will be focusing on the new-for-2014 rules, so things might stay that way. Good for the fans, although I don't think Formula One without technical intrigue is viable in the long-term.

Poor decision, seeing the drivers use the DRS in qualifying when they are absolutely on it is very fun. How brave a driver can be going into a corner with their DRS open or how early they decide to open their DRS.

I'm actually in favor of this. DRS is basically a push-to-pass feature, but what it became was you had two F1 cars - one with DRS engaged (maybe a crap car) and one without (maybe a great car). So in quali you had one "formula" where all the cars could use DRS, and then in the race its a restricted use item. Someone wrote that with free DRS you have differences of up to 3s/lap in quali. Thats a different car.

Don't really care about gear ratios and whatnot. Teams are free to gear how they want.

Now you guys talk about GP2, I´ve been thinking for some time just give teams a rule set aimed to reproduce in a way as precise as possible 2006-2010 GP2 cars. Let them put in a F1 engine and, of course, a F1 driver. There you have some serious quality racing without passing gadgets with some gorgeous looking cars.

DRS isn't a one shoe fits all measure and while it's helped produce some artificial excitement at tracks such as Valencia and Abu Dhabi, it's already ridiculously easy to overtake at track such as Canada and Spa with just one DRS zone, I fear that certain races may be 'destroyed' because of it. I understand that this is a way to resolve the gearing issue that was likely to crop up with the new rule, but this can't be the only solution.

It will be fun to see where they put the second DRS zone at Monaco.....Tunnel!