tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35115061.post1100176346088513894..comments2017-12-13T20:47:32.016-05:00Comments on Rex Parker Does the NYT Crossword Puzzle: WEDNESDAY, Aug. 6, 2008 - Caleb Madison (River of Irkutsk/ Setting of many a Monet painting / "Santa Baby" singer, 1953)Rex Parkerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16145707733877505087noreply@blogger.comBlogger108125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35115061.post-47960433281968284842008-09-10T13:29:00.000-04:002008-09-10T13:29:00.000-04:00@Crosscan: Brilliant sketch.....just brilliant!!!@...@Crosscan: Brilliant sketch.....just brilliant!!!<BR/><BR/>@ everybody else: When I don't show up, you can take jae's comments as coming from me.<BR/><BR/>@jae: Do you ever get to Squamish?<BR/><BR/>www.photobucket.com/wwpierreWWPierrenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35115061.post-39558707039700951772008-08-07T22:18:00.000-04:002008-08-07T22:18:00.000-04:00I still feel sad that this constructor gets into t...I still feel sad that this constructor gets into the puzzle <BR/>beautiful words, that are themed as well like HEARTBREAK, SUNDANCE, CINCINNATI (for christsake!) FLAMINGO, KARATE, and the bonus SAYHEY and people can do nothing but count black squares. :(<BR/><BR/>One bad cross TAEL/USRDA (which was admittedly awful), to then say the puzzle is ruined and you can't even remember the theme, that would have killed me!<BR/><BR/>I really think people have no idea, and they should by now how wildly hard this is.acmeacmenaming.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35115061.post-16427397667322469172008-08-07T10:56:00.000-04:002008-08-07T10:56:00.000-04:00@Mimi - If others can argue about whether it was t...@Mimi - If others can argue about whether it was the Thin Man Nora Charles vs the Author Nora Charles, why can't I just make up a non-existent Nora Charles and insist upon it?<BR/><BR/>Seems equally fair to me.Joe Hardynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35115061.post-5460995591739889082008-08-07T10:52:00.000-04:002008-08-07T10:52:00.000-04:00Barry - don't you mean your "Ah so!" moment? (I'm...Barry - don't you mean your "Ah so!" moment? (I'm Chinese and Charlie Chan references are not an anathema to me! It's funny in that non-pc way of the past.)<BR/><BR/>I didn't see any question with this but LOUT was both a clue and an answer? <BR/><BR/>I thought xwords tried to steer clear of ever giving something away for free?!Andrewnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35115061.post-18367329914704238992008-08-07T02:50:00.000-04:002008-08-07T02:50:00.000-04:0044 Blocks is a lot. Only 14 Will Shortz puzzles ha...44 Blocks is a lot. Only 14 Will Shortz puzzles have been published with more.<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.xwordinfo.com/Density.aspx" REL="nofollow">www.xwordinfo.com/Density.aspx</A> shows the list. The thumbnails views for fewest and most blocks are both very interesting.JimHornehttp://profile.typekey.com/JimHorne/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35115061.post-86247762953091769722008-08-07T00:36:00.000-04:002008-08-07T00:36:00.000-04:00Orange, I agree. There is a distinction to be mad...Orange, I agree. There is a distinction to be made between <B>old crosswordese</B>, of which TAEL and AMAH (sometimes clued as Oriental nurse) and <B>modern crosswordese</B> of which ERNE is a perfect example.<BR/><BR/>If you haven't been doing puzzle for the last 30 years, old crosswordese may be totally foreign to you. There are those of us,however, who do remember.<BR/><BR/>Hello phillysolver, artlvr, jc66 and many, many othersBill from NJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10103923612595508277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35115061.post-39750411524545441702008-08-07T00:35:00.000-04:002008-08-07T00:35:00.000-04:00@ acme: re 44 black squares being excessive and e...@ acme: re 44 black squares being excessive and exceptional, here's some food for thought, and the best part is, you can look it up.<BR/><BR/>Chronicle of Higher Education --<BR/><BR/>"The standard grid rules apply: Normal crossword symmetry, no unchecked letters or two-letter words, and a maximum of 78 entries and 38 black squares. Exceptions to these totals may be made if the theme is ambitious enough to warrant them."<BR/><BR/>New York Sun --<BR/><BR/>There is no maximum number of words in the grid or maximum number of black squares, but 78 words and 38 black squares are good guidelines."<BR/><BR/>LA Times --<BR/><BR/>"Maximum word counts: 78 for 15x15, 72 for Saturday 15x15 themeless, 144 for 21x21. <BR/>Maximum black-square count for 15x15 puzzles is 43."<BR/><BR/>Even the lowest of the low, USA Today --<BR/><BR/>"The puzzles are 15X15, 78 clues or less, 38 black squares or less. (Exceeded slightly at editor’s discretion)<BR/><BR/>The cagey Times editor limits the word count to 78, but doesn't name a black square limit. If you can make the leap of faith to say that there is no editor more demanding than El Exigente, then you can, perhaps, intuit that 44 is off the charts. If it's allowed, there's either a thematic reason or a free pass involved.<BR/><BR/>Finis<BR/><BR/>--JDJane Dohhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06121774603671545699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35115061.post-63971130192972344402008-08-06T23:23:00.000-04:002008-08-06T23:23:00.000-04:00PuzzleGirl, from my perspective, true crosswordese...PuzzleGirl, from my perspective, true crosswordese includes all those words that clutter the darker recesses of my brain because they used to show up in plenty of crosswords (and I've been doing crosswords for nearly 30 years). The editors and constructors have largely excised the worst of these—when's the last ANOA on the loose? TAEL is one of those words that's old-school crosswordese (well, except for kung-fu movies).<BR/><BR/>Modern crosswordese includes the answers that still run riot in the grid more often than TAEL— your UTA and your ERNE, for example.Orangehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12433254398377357737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35115061.post-40294205669907917942008-08-06T22:43:00.000-04:002008-08-06T22:43:00.000-04:00I guess it's a question of perspective as to wheth...I guess it's a question of perspective as to whether TAEL is crosswordese. If you've watched enough Hong Kong films or kung fu movies and had to follow them via subtitles, TAEL is an eminently normal word, rather than truly obscure or used only in crosswords. I'm pretty sure it's used in Jet Li and Jackie Chan period films. Not quite sure how much overlap there is between kung fu and crossword fans, but I'll stick up for TAEL.<BR/><BR/>Plus, I do like the use of non-French/German/Spanish references (even if I do speak German) - think it makes for some nice variety.<BR/><BR/>And LENA is the river that Lenin got his name from, or so the story goes at least. Plus as others have said it's one of the longest rivers in the world. To me, that's a lot less obscure than the many random tributaries in Europe that serve as fill.<BR/><BR/>In any case, not knowing NERUDA in a clue that has to do with poetry is like not knowing who Dan Marino is in a clue on (American) football, say - it reflects not knowing a particular field rather than any Natick principle.Darylhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04496381028501467886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35115061.post-67363336205540100202008-08-06T20:43:00.000-04:002008-08-06T20:43:00.000-04:00The thing that made this puzzle more difficult for...The thing that made this puzzle more difficult for me was that I had the first two letters and the last letter for San Antonio; I also thought of Nick Charles as opposed to Nora - duh!!!Cincinnati and Say Hey opened up the theme for me and under gave me deck as compared to dock and the misdirections were gone.<BR/>Now we have one great Ex-Giant crossing paths with 3 late Yankees.<BR/>I liked the puzzle but as everyone seems to agree its hard to follow yesterdays real fun puzzle!<BR/>And everyone should know what a tael is - its an anagram for late - hich ties in to the 3 Yankees.<BR/>I also felt at home after finishing the SW, since I live in New Hyde Park - and 2/3 of the neighborhood is there.alanrichardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06395356843823270129noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35115061.post-60923749748337858312008-08-06T20:15:00.000-04:002008-08-06T20:15:00.000-04:00I thought he was an Alsatian...I thought he was an Alsatian...Barryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17875477509288463142noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35115061.post-77271763574231051162008-08-06T20:08:00.000-04:002008-08-06T20:08:00.000-04:00Caleb, I really hate to tell you this, but I think...Caleb, I really hate to tell you this, but I think you have a right to know. Wade is a German Shepherd.PuzzleGirlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06835502266781516627noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35115061.post-32061445249408808962008-08-06T19:49:00.000-04:002008-08-06T19:49:00.000-04:00Caleb, nobody's really unhappy about the puzzle. ...Caleb, nobody's really unhappy about the puzzle. Puzzles are just an excuse for us to yak on this board, and yours fulfilled its purpose. Everything on here is hyperbolic. We're pretty pathetic really. I'm mainly talking about PuzzleGirl.Wadehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03374112725461339067noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35115061.post-42610307102654130602008-08-06T19:11:00.000-04:002008-08-06T19:11:00.000-04:00Is LENA Olin less obscure? SHe is one of those ac...Is LENA Olin less obscure? SHe is one of those actresses whose appearance in crosswords probably exceeds her appearances in movies. My guess is the river ref was Will/Caleb's thought as a fresher (or Wednesday) way of cluing.<BR/><BR/>My other guess is the writer Nora Charles took her pen name as a nod to the Nick and Nora Nora Charles, so ultimately same deal.<BR/><BR/>And anyone who thinks 44 black squares is too many is an ASO!<BR/>:)<BR/><BR/>(Oops, I've exceeded by daily 44 post limit. Welcome back, Rex!)acmeacmenaming.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35115061.post-32543454685774430652008-08-06T19:09:00.000-04:002008-08-06T19:09:00.000-04:00I'm amazed any canadian doesn't know the term "hos...I'm amazed any canadian doesn't know the term "hoser". Perhaps it is any canadian of a certain age, sigh.<BR/><BR/>The killer crossing for me was LENA/NERUDA but I don't think it was NATICK worthy.<BR/><BR/>Lout/Lout was clearly an editing error but I thought I would have fun with it.<BR/><BR/>I never saw TAEL when solving as I got all of the crosses. Nick and Nora Charles are regular puzzle vistors, usually as ASTA's owner. <BR/><BR/>Glad you liked the appearance of the McKenzies.<BR/><BR/>Caleb, keep em coming. It may not be the perfect puzzle, but it has some nice elements, eh.<BR/><BR/>Welcome back, Rex. Just in time I'd say. I'd better vacuum the living room.Crosscanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01699404861773455504noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35115061.post-79193273903173711542008-08-06T18:59:00.000-04:002008-08-06T18:59:00.000-04:00@steve lI'm not sure I get how obscure something n...@steve l<BR/><BR/><I>I'm not sure I get how obscure something needs to be to qualify for the so-called Natick principle</I><BR/><BR/>Rex himself, in the post in question, defined it as follows:<BR/><BR/>"If you include a proper noun in your grid that you cannot reasonably expect more than 1/4 of the solving public to have heard of, you must cross that noun with reasonably common words and phrases or very common names."<BR/><BR/>Personally, I wouldn't put NERUDA/LENA in the Natick category since, although I've never heard of the Lena river, Pablo Neruda is famous enough that (a) probably well over 1/4 of the solving public have heard of him and (b) if you don't know who he is, you should.<BR/><BR/>The problem is, of course, it's very hard to know what words qualify as obscure enough. As I said, I've never heard of LENA the river, but others insist it is a famous river and has shown up in the crossword puzzle before. Natick, on the other hand, isn't particularly famous (despite having some famous people be born or otherwise live there) and is not normal crossword fill.Barryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17875477509288463142noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35115061.post-90443615736620845032008-08-06T18:57:00.000-04:002008-08-06T18:57:00.000-04:00Good thing papa bear is coming back. Things are g...Good thing papa bear is coming back. Things are getting a little rough around the edges in these parts.<BR/><BR/>My only complaint is ROOD, because that is clearly not a word; otherwise, an okay puzzle. Oh and count me in with the anti-elhis. A quick survey of the Random Conviction portion of my brain reveals that this "abbreviation" was manufactured expressly for use in crossword puzzles, and as such does not constitute fair fill. I know there are other examples of this, but this one seems particularly egregious. Desperate and rood.green mantishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01823785147354157816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35115061.post-58867038177750055372008-08-06T18:48:00.000-04:002008-08-06T18:48:00.000-04:00Well thanks for the criticism, guys. TAEL was the ...Well thanks for the criticism, guys. TAEL was the only thing I was unhappy with, but I figured it had been used before. Also, I was thinking of Nora Charles of "The Thin Man," not the writer who I've never heard of. She's no Philip Marlowe, but she's pretty big in the world of mysteries. As for NERUDA/LENA, I thought it was gettable. I'm a big Neruda fan, though, so maybe I'm biased.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the write-up, and sorry to everyone who was so unhappy about it :-!<BR/><BR/>Caleb M.Calmadnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35115061.post-62612888106116594692008-08-06T18:42:00.000-04:002008-08-06T18:42:00.000-04:00@Joe Hardy: How is it that you are absolutely pos...@Joe Hardy: How is it that you are absolutely positive about the true identity of Mystery NORA? Do tell, please!<BR/>Curiously yours,<BR/>-MMimihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01260490837860523999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35115061.post-74246572707258061512008-08-06T18:30:00.000-04:002008-08-06T18:30:00.000-04:00I'm positive it was the NORA Charles from the Hard...I'm positive it was the NORA Charles from the Hardy Boy's adventure, Where in the World is LANA, not the Nora Charles from the Thin Man, nor Nora Charles/Noreen Wald.<BR/><BR/>Absolutely Positive.Joe Hardynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35115061.post-14211626846471800422008-08-06T18:15:00.000-04:002008-08-06T18:15:00.000-04:00oh course that should have read: "surely you Jest"...oh course that should have read: "surely you Jest" and "reNt il postino"...damn, I even proofread it, or so I thought!acmeacmenaming.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35115061.post-10137210340531408572008-08-06T18:00:00.000-04:002008-08-06T18:00:00.000-04:00I'm not sure I get how obscure something needs to ...I'm not sure I get how obscure something needs to be to qualify for the so-called Natick principle, since I got that cross a few weeks ago without even thinking about it too hard (and I'm not from New England). But ASO, in my opinion, crossing with HOSER (--this was one crossing where I said, "Must be an O, couldn't be anything else...I think..." and moved on. Now, I concede it couldn't be much else, but I never watched SCTV, so it was meaningless to me)I did a post-Google to double check, but I thought those two clues were a pretty obscure pair. (Maybe a better clue would have been something about Vanna claiming to like A, E, I and U as much AS O??) Add to that the fact that several Canadians attested on this forum to never having heard of "hoser," coupled with the fact that it seems to be a very juvenile word (based on "hosebag" from a vacuum or the loser who hoses down the hockey rink after a game).steve lnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35115061.post-64871545110111562752008-08-06T17:58:00.000-04:002008-08-06T17:58:00.000-04:00uh oh, this is getting nasty, forgodsakes, rest "I...uh oh, this is getting nasty, <BR/>forgodsakes, rest "Il postino" you'll see a beautiful film, learn who Neruda is, and maybe even fall in love with his poetry!<BR/><BR/>@ sd "grouchy" <BR/>You wrote "acme, surely you est"! <BR/>(when do I not?) but since I don't think you meant it joshingly, let me say<BR/><BR/>I just don't think 44 blocks is such a horrible thing...<BR/>there have been, like, 50 puzzles with 44 blocks (yes, full disclosure, I am one of them, for my favorite Gilligan's Island cast puzzle) but they've been every day of the week, by 50 different constructors...so to me, that's legitimate.<BR/> and yes, six themes, to me, way makes up for all sorts of stuff!<BR/><BR/>I didn't even KNOW there was a word limit or a black square count till these blogs started.<BR/>(I guess bec I'm still a solver at heart who occasionally has an idea for a puzzle).<BR/><BR/>Each of us nerds has an imaginary cut off point where we look at others and go, "PHew, at least I'm not THAT nerdy!"<BR/>so for me,it's the counting blacksquares! :)<BR/> but if one is into that, and all these baseball-esque stats about crosswords, then by all means, go to JimH's blog and you'll be in hog heaven!<BR/><BR/>Yes, the fill was far from stellar today, but re: blocks?<BR/>Hold the puzzle at arm's length, does it really look that different? <BR/> At least it's not in the shape of a swastika!acmeacmenaming.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35115061.post-63813899026601720612008-08-06T17:57:00.000-04:002008-08-06T17:57:00.000-04:00Ertha Kitt with drag queens. Creepy choice. But fu...Ertha Kitt with drag queens. Creepy choice. But funny.BoBohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12510888378481003155noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35115061.post-63680782277351845672008-08-06T17:41:00.000-04:002008-08-06T17:41:00.000-04:00I don't know william e emba, the cruciverb.com dat...I don't know william e emba, the cruciverb.com data base shows TAEL coming up six times between April 1998 and December 2007. Only twice in the NYT (in 2000 and 2003). I'm not sure that meets the test for crosswordese.PuzzleGirlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06835502266781516627noreply@blogger.com