Well, it certainly is to the troops stationed there ...<br><br>It occurs to me that an unstated reason for going into Iraq might have been to turn it into a "terrorist magnet" - offering an easier target for terrorists to go after than the continental US ...<br><br>In that respect the invasion of Iraq - regardless of how you feel about its legitimacy - has probably made the US a safer place than before ...<br><br>Anyways, I agree that Iraq and Saddam posed not nearly the threat portrayed by the administration before the invasion ...<br><br>***matt<br><br>Turn up the signal, wipe out the noise ...

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>In that respect the invasion of Iraq - regardless of how you feel about its legitimacy - has probably made the US a safer place than before ...<p><hr></blockquote><p>Gotta say that I've been watching this thread and have to say that the two polar opposites in this argument are both getting some things right. Yes, what Bush did is something that is decent, of course, he could have shown his support long ago by making an appearance earlier (even Cheney has popped over there only once), but at least he did it on a family holiday while the troops are away from theirs. But I must disagree with you Matt on your statement above. The longer we are involved in military actions in the Middle East, the more I am sure we will see attempts of terrorism on American soil. Violence only begets more violence. <br><br>I was thinking about this today, in my lifetime (born in 1968), for each year a Republican has been President, more people have been killed (whether our own troops or the people they're shooting) in the name of "American interests" than while a Democrat was in office. Granted, that's only about a 1/3 of my lifetime, and yet it's the "liberals" that are bringing this country to hell? I don't get it.<br><br><br><br>

But I must disagree with you Matt on your statement above. The longer we are involved in military actions in the Middle East, the more I am sure we will see attempts of terrorism on American soil. Violence only begets more violence.<br><br>And I largely agree with that statement. I was limiting mine to the specific case of the war in Iraq potentially drawing would-be terrorists away from attacking the US and going for easier targets in that country ... if that be the case, I'm sure you would agree that the US would be a safer place than not in that regard ...<br><br>However, I am against the reasons we went to war in the first place, and am in total agreement that US actions in the Middle East probably do far more harm than good ...<br><br>As for elephants or donkeys causing the most mayhem, that's a fruitless line of thought, IMHO, as they both have to cooperate in order to cause that mayhem. For example, you were born just at the end of almost a decade of Democratic presidencies that presided over the horror of Viet Nam and the millions killed during that conflict; and Nixon didn't do a very good job of ending that misery during his term-and-a-half or so ... so there's enough blame to go around ...<br><br>Happy Day After Thanksgiving!<br><br>=)<br><br>***matt<br><br>Turn up the signal, wipe out the noise ...

I agree- I was shocked, amazed, and completely impressed by the president's heart and show of guts yesterday...<br><br>Love him or hate him, this was a heartfelt gesture to the troops overseas, who are missing yet *another* Thanksgiving with their loved ones. <br><br>And I can't stand that some of you would be so cynical to think that it was all for political gain. The amount of risk involved in this situation would not be worth a few extra votes come next November, even if it were to pay off that way. <br><br>On the other hand, what is a SENATOR from New York (with supposedly NO presidential aspirations) doing in Afghanistan meeting with local leaders? Even though I'm probably voting Democrat in '04, this raised an eyebrow with me a lot more than Bush's visit did...<br><br>I may not agree wholeheartedly with the man's decisions lately, but God bless him he's sticking to his guns. And this impromptu visit only tells me that we're in this thing for the long run. <br><br>

so was this .. not[/url][url=http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s999838.htm]<br><br>-----------------------------------------------------------------<br> "Behold the Turtle, he maketh no progress ==== until he sticketh out his neck." <br>-----------------------------------------------------------------

Terrible. Absolutely no debating that. This kind of event sickens me — accidental or deliberate. It is, however, the kind of thing that happens all to often, and not just in areas of on-going conflict. It happens on City streets, in rural and suburban neighborhoods. And in cases like this, the lack of clarity makes it all the more tragic.<br><br>But this has what to do w/Bush's trip?<br><br>

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>The president stopped at Andrews Air Force Base (search) outside Washington to change planes and pick up some aides.<br><br>The switch took place in a huge hangar where the transfer was [color:red]hidden from view</font color=red>. <br><br>The airport in Baghdad was blackened and [color:red]Air Force One, once on the ground, could not be seen</font color=red>.<p><hr></blockquote><p>So the whole thing was actually staged in a huge hangar at Andrews AFB, just like all those landings on the moon!<br><br>OK, now don't take me too seriously here, got it? <br><br>And they say turkeys can't fly. Ha. <br><br><br><br><br><br>

just rather takes the gloss off it a bit<br><br>-----------------------------------------------------------------<br> "Behold the Turtle, he maketh no progress ==== until he sticketh out his neck." <br>-----------------------------------------------------------------

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