I once overheard a straight (and drunk) acquaintance of mine explain to a gay friend of mine how when he uses the word "f-----" it is not sexist at all, because, you know, the people he says it to are not really homos and all that, and it's just a word after all, and people use it all the time anyway, so no hard feelings, eh? ... it was shameful and unpleasant and awkward. You could tell that my friend did not exactly feel empowered.

making a gay slur against someone who isn't gay doesn't carry nearly the same weight as making a racist gesture towards someone who is black - especially when that person is one of the few black people in his profession. this doesn't change my opinion of the banana incident at all.

Gaucho wrote:A gay slur against a straight person is still offensive - to gay people. Regardless of the fact that the average straight person thinks it's no big deal.

yes. but it's still not in the same league as what happened to simmonds. and it's not even close, really. i don't feel articulate enough after 5 hours of sleep to explain why in great detail, but the essence of it is that the real meaning behind both acts are different. calling avery a name (in what was thought to be a non-public conversation) is an attack on avery and avery alone. throwing a banana peel on the ice in a televised, public forum is a message to an entire race that they don't belong with white people on a hockey rink.

i empathize with gay people. i was married by a homosexual. it sucks that words like that are casually thrown around - and more often than not, they're thrown at non-gays. but it's just not the same thing as what happened to simmonds. sorry.

shmenguin wrote:calling avery a name (in what was thought to be a non-public conversation) is an attack on avery and avery alone. throwing a banana peel on the ice in a televised, public forum is a message to an entire race that they don't belong with white people on a hockey rink.

Yeah, Simmonds was stupid to say it, but come on...I have heard the word "homo" approximately 8 million times throughout HS and college, especially in sporting environments. Does it technically make it right? No, but I don't think calling someone a homo is a sign that person hates gays or something.

doublem wrote: There are times when people are really racist, a banana toss probably one of the best examples I have seen in hockey in my lifetime.

Well there are two thoughts i have about this. Eithor the person that threw the banana it really does hate black people and really doesn't want them in the NHL or I could just as easily see this as someone who wants attention and look... he got it! A drunk college kid. What if the next Tom Green or Sasha Cohen did it? It would be shockingly funny then, right? I just have a hard time in this day and age that people really actually hate people of another race. People use the stigma of certain words and actions to get reactions from other people. Sure the thrower could be a real racist, in which case I really feel bad for them, but I think there's still as good possibility that someone thought they'd be funny or were attention starved. Some how, some way, I think all involved are going to be allright and everyone is making way too big a deal of this.

shafnutz05 wrote:Yeah, Simmonds was stupid to say it, but come on...I have heard the word "homo" approximately 8 million times throughout HS and college, especially in sporting environments. Does it technically make it right? No, but I don't think calling someone a homo is a sign that person hates gays or something.

I don't think you quite understand. it's not really about hate. when you call someone a "homo" or a "f***ot" you are trying to cut them down. basically you are trying to make them feel like a lesser person. in the case of one guy calling another guy a "f***ot" typically you are trying to take a shot at his masculinity in order to make him feel like a lesser person. not all gay guys are "limp-wristed fairies". in fact, most of the gay guys I know are plenty masculine and could beat the crap out of most of the straight guys I know. the vast majority of men gay or straight want to be seen by others as masculine. it's just human nature.when you use a gay slur you are trying to hurt the other person by calling them a name. that is what's offensive to gay people.the fact that these slurs have been used by decades doesn't excuse it. if anything it's kind of pathetic that as adults we still feel the need to do this.

Honestly, we were going back and forth for a while there," he said, without providing details. "I don't recall everything that I did say to him, but he said to me some things I didn't like. And maybe I said some things that he didn't like.

"I can't recall every single word I said."

Simmonds was asked what Avery said and if it crossed the line.

"I'm not going to rat him out," he said.

So I'm guessing Avery was his typical digusting self, did cross the line, and is now playing martyr. Sniveling little rat.

doublem wrote: There are times when people are really racist, a banana toss probably one of the best examples I have seen in hockey in my lifetime.

Well there are two thoughts i have about this. Eithor the person that threw the banana it really does hate black people and really doesn't want them in the NHL or I could just as easily see this as someone who wants attention and look... he got it! A drunk college kid. What if the next Tom Green or Sasha Cohen did it? It would be shockingly funny then, right? I just have a hard time in this day and age that people really actually hate people of another race. People use the stigma of certain words and actions to get reactions from other people. Sure the thrower could be a real racist, in which case I really feel bad for them, but I think there's still as good possibility that someone thought they'd be funny or were attention starved. Some how, some way, I think all involved are going to be allright and everyone is making way too big a deal of this.

I agree and comedy is different too. George Carlin had a great bit about it. Using the N word when black people use it, compared to when racists use it. My point was if gays can use the word to take the stigma away, the word objectively has no real meaning, unlike what bhaw keep saying.

llipgh2 wrote:Interesting quote from Simmonds about the verbal exchange:

Honestly, we were going back and forth for a while there," he said, without providing details. "I don't recall everything that I did say to him, but he said to me some things I didn't like. And maybe I said some things that he didn't like.

"I can't recall every single word I said."

Simmonds was asked what Avery said and if it crossed the line.

"I'm not going to rat him out," he said.

So I'm guessing Avery was his typical digusting self, did cross the line, and is now playing martyr. Sniveling little rat.

The stupid thing about all this outcry is it's Avery and no one should ever feel bad for that loser.

llipgh2 wrote:Interesting quote from Simmonds about the verbal exchange:

Honestly, we were going back and forth for a while there," he said, without providing details. "I don't recall everything that I did say to him, but he said to me some things I didn't like. And maybe I said some things that he didn't like.

"I can't recall every single word I said."

Simmonds was asked what Avery said and if it crossed the line.

"I'm not going to rat him out," he said.

So I'm guessing Avery was his typical digusting self, did cross the line, and is now playing martyr. Sniveling little rat.

llipgh2 wrote:Interesting quote from Simmonds about the verbal exchange:

Honestly, we were going back and forth for a while there," he said, without providing details. "I don't recall everything that I did say to him, but he said to me some things I didn't like. And maybe I said some things that he didn't like.

"I can't recall every single word I said."

Simmonds was asked what Avery said and if it crossed the line.

"I'm not going to rat him out," he said.

So I'm guessing Avery was his typical digusting self, did cross the line, and is now playing martyr. Sniveling little rat.

wayne simmonds isnt a saint on the ice. they are both morons.

Never said he was. But he isn't acting like one, either. In a roundabout way, he's fessing up. Not apologizing (which he should, to gays - not Avery), but fessing up.