Tanks Rolling into Tehran

I don't think that the CIA has the best interests of Americans in mind.

Any revolution here in the States directed by the CIA would not become a change for the better. Just my opinion of course and really sorta'
irrelevant to the topic of Iranian revolution.

Although it is my opinion that the CIA is likely involved there.

The CIA came into existance after the Federal Reserve. So the agenda of the CIA is most likely to be that of the Fedeeral Reserve.

If the Agenda of the Federal Reserve is to break up the United States then what better way than to bog down the military industrial complex in a never
ending war in the middle east?

The war in Iraq has been played out as far as it could go. And how long can they really stretch the war in Afghanistan?

The timing of the Iranian revolution is fortunate I would say. It should be an easy sell to move troops from Iraq to Iran to help quell the civil war.
Maybe the middle east powers that be will even fund US military involvement.

Being an American veteran, of course, I hate war. However, I would give my life for freedom, for my friends...

If the regime in Iran is destabilizing, we would be wrong to fail to support our friends. Our country should support our friends in Iran. To do
otherwise would be disloyal to the causes of human rights and freedom. To turn away from our friends as they are slaughtered and incarcerated is
cowardice. Let the US never be known as a coward, or as too cash-poor to help a friend.

Many Iranians live in the US. Put yourself in their shoes for a moment. As the currently the greatest superpower on earth, we have a responsibility
to support goodness and right. Please, have heart, take on the courage to help your friend, even as you struggle with recession.

My great gggg grandfather fought in the American Revolution. Had he and his courageous friends not done so, we would still not be free.... When
history looks back in time at the great democracy that was the United States, (should it ever fail), let it be said that they were there for their
friends, they were there to stand for the cause of freedom, and they sacrificed their time, talents and treasures for the good of man.

What greater legacy can there be? Jesus said, "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for a friend."

The Tanks in Tehran report is DisInfo and not a legitimate report. Please Be careful of what you pass on as you may be helping spread disinfo to scare
away the people of Iran from standing up for free democracy.

Originally posted by Terapin
The Tanks in Tehran report is DisInfo and not a legitimate report. Please Be careful of what you pass on as you may be helping spread disinfo to scare
away the people of Iran from standing up for free democracy.

The source is not known for its regime propaganda.

IMHO tanks entered Tehran and later left, that would explain why many sources confirmed, and later became unconfirmed especially on twitter.

Could be Khamenei panicked after Iranians began to shout death to khamenei. Who knows?

Originally posted by jar11
reading this thread gives me a tight feeling in my chest. Why the hell does the world have to be this way? I just can't wrap my head around it.

I mean I can "understand" (for lack of a better word) the greed by corrupt government jerks. but why do the military and police get involved? Don't
they have families? Are they supporters of a regime such as this? All it would take is the military and the police to revolt and turn on the
government and then where's the power to enforce anything? The police and military are just regular people too! What the hell kind of regular person
wants to enforce this?

I use that as a vomit as opposed to a flame.

I guess it really comes down to brainwashing and fear. So what else is new?

Very well put and yes the men in both the armed services and police are Iranians. I find it troubling too that they don't stand with the people.
However, if they decide to mutiny and the revolution goes south they are at risk of getting executed for their crimes and their families will be
destitute. So, I see them not standing with the people out of caution at present and it is to close to pick sides but done the road it could be
possible.

Yeah I can understand their fear of that. However, if everyone - or even the majority of the military/police started fighting back against the
governments there's no one left to execute anyone. And the actual men behind the scenes don't have the kahungas to put a bullet in anyones head.
They like to send out their thugs to do the dirty work and sit back and get off on the power they think they have. I know it's very much wishful
thinking for this type of revolution. A man can dream can't he?

Regardless, I am happy about the Iranian protests that are happening now, it really shows that we're not always going to sit back and eat up every
damn thing they dish out. I am waiting for that big bold move that government here in America tries to pull, like taking away our internet or some
other major freedom we enjoy so much and the protests start.

I am confident the people of this world still have a good chance of winning and I'm going to hold on to that hope until the very end. Sorry for the
long post. :-)

Reporting from Cairo and Tehran -- Iran's state-owned Press TV said four of the five family members of former President Ali Akbar Hashemi
Rafsanjani have been released after being detained Saturday night, though his eldest daughter, Faezeh, was not among those freed.

Rafsanjani -- a senior cleric and an architect of the 1979 Islamic Revolution -- is a key backer of opposition leader Mir-Hossein Mousavi. Faezeh
Hashemi was picked up Saturday after addressing a group of demonstrators protesting the disputed results of the June 12 presidential election.

Rafsanjani heads up the Assembly of Experts,this powerful group comprising senior clerics,who can dismiss the country's supreme leader Ayatollah Ali
Khamenei and elect a replacement .

I can`t help but think he will be sacrificed , if Amadinajad is not enough .

I can`t see a way back for Amadinajad after this , and every hour Khamenei leaves Amadinajad in power , the more untenable his position becomes.

I don`t think Khamenei has gauged the reaction of the people well ..... he is out of touch .
The stern faced , dour supreme leader lacks the people skills to appeal to the masses or to placate them by acknowledging their anger . Its not
something a supreme leader has to do ...... very often !

As Supreme Leader there is an air of infallibility about the position ,as he has openly supported Amadinajad and the "integrity" of the elections
...... he will more than likely have to be replaced . That is if the demonstrations prove successful .

Rafsanjani heads up the Assembly of Experts,this powerful group comprising senior clerics,who can dismiss the country's supreme leader Ayatollah Ali
Khamenei and elect a replacement .

I can`t help but think he will be sacrificed , if Amadinajad is not enough .

I can`t see a way back for Amadinajad after this , and every hour Khamenei leaves Amadinajad in power , the more untenable his position becomes.

I don`t think Khamenei has gauged the reaction of the people well ..... he is out of touch .
The stern faced , dour supreme leader lacks the people skills to appeal to the masses or to placate them by acknowledging their anger . Its not
something a supreme leader has to do ...... very often !

As Supreme Leader there is an air of infallibility about the position ,as he has openly supported Amadinajad and the "integrity" of the elections
...... he will more than likely have to be replaced . That is if the demonstrations prove successful .

Iranians I spoken to say they want the whole system changed top to bottom. That means not just a new supreme leader. So maybe getting rid of
Khamenei wont be enough, but Mousavi becoming president will be what they wanted in the first place, and should prevent more deaths.

It just depends whether those that died yesterday were seen to have died for a full blown revolution or whether khamenei replaced and mousavi elected
will be enough to satisfy them. Somehow I don't think it will end the protests.

Iranians I spoken to say they want the whole system changed top to bottom. That means not just a new supreme leader. So maybe getting rid of
Khamenei wont be enough, but Mousavi becoming president will be what they wanted in the first place, and should prevent more deaths.

.

This may be where there will be dissagreement amongst Iranians Urban/Rural as to the extent to which change occurs.
War veterans and those who took part in the 79` revolution, may baulk at any suggestion of dismantling what they built.

This may be where there will be dissagreement amongst Iranians Urban/Rural as to the extent to which change occurs. War veterans and those who took
part in the 79` revolution, may baulk at any suggestion of dismantling what they built. Who knows how this will finish .

Hmm... When socialism was dismantled in Eastern Europe there was practically no reaction from "hard core" socialism lovers.

I think what is decisive is that this is about switching generations and also middle class rebellion. New generation have no sentimental relationship
to Islamic republic which happened before their birth. Besides, the regime has sent thousands of people to certain death charging Iraqis with bare
hands. The pain of this is also surfacing right now.

Iranians I spoken to say they want the whole system changed top to bottom. That means not just a new supreme leader. So maybe getting rid of
Khamenei wont be enough, but Mousavi becoming president will be what they wanted in the first place, and should prevent more deaths.

.

This may be where there will be dissagreement amongst Iranians Urban/Rural as to the extent to which change occurs.
War veterans and those who took part in the 79` revolution, may baulk at any suggestion of dismantling what they built.

Who knows how this will finish .

True this may end up starting an even bigger conflict more specifically between those two factions. So replacing the supreme leader in this way may
just be opening up a pandoras box.

They act as if they have absolutely NO freedom at all when they are allowed to use the Internet to spread their biased mistruths, listen to
whatever music they want, walk around in any clothing they desire,

1. They cant drink
2. Women must wear dark clothing
3. Women must cover there hair
4. Women must NOT wear makeup
5. You are NOT allowed American TV/Movies
6. You are NOT allowed to be born Muslim, but convert to christianity
7. You are NOT allowed to elect your WANTED PRESIDENT.

You call this freedom?
1. No protests
2. No media
3. No internet
4. Uni's and dorms raided and smashed by government basij
5. Protestors SHOT AND KILLED
6. Protestors Arrested and beaten
7. Political candidates arrested and beaten
8. Refusal for re'election
9

I'm not entirely disagreeing with you, but there are a few points above which are not just true for Iran.

1. There are a number of countries which ban alcohol for social and political reasons, and they're not Muslim countries. Even in WA we've got towns
with total alcohol bans because, of course, the government knows what's best for these people.

2, 3 and 4. Having been to Iran a couple of times, this comes down to personal choice by the family (although usually the male). Wearing a burkah is
not a religious icon from Islam - it is a social thing.

7. Remember GWBush's first election fraud? He only got elected through nepotism. Do you think in this case the American people were 'allowed' to
have their elected president?

1. No protests? Do you remember American protests during the Vietnam War? They were suppresed by the national guard, and people died. This sounds
fairly similar to what's going on in Iran at the moment...

3. No internet? Sounds fairly similar to the Australian government's 'clean feed' idea, where they want to screen all incoming internet pages, and
only let through what they think is appropriate - don't you think this opens it up to all sorts of corruption?

5 and 6. Same as during Vietnam War protests.

8. Were the American people allowed a re-election after GWBush committed electoral fraud for his first term?

You can't really nominate all of these problems with Iran. It happens in America, it happens all the time in Israel - these problems are not
exclusive to Islamic countries... there are plenty of examples in the Western nations...

Rewey

[edit on 21-6-2009 by Rewey]

I just read a news report on 67-odd men who are going to whipped in Saudi Arabia, because they are cross-dressers. Saudi Arabia is another Islamic
country, with very strict sharia law, which still carries out public beheadings and executions. Why is it then that Saudi Arabia is deemed on the
West's biggest 'friends', but Iran is not?

This may be where there will be dissagreement amongst Iranians Urban/Rural as to the extent to which change occurs. War veterans and those who took
part in the 79` revolution, may baulk at any suggestion of dismantling what they built. Who knows how this will finish .

Hmm... When socialism was dismantled in Eastern Europe there was practically no reaction from "hard core" socialism lovers.

.......

...........

The religious dimension adds a little more fanaticism to the possible defence of the Islam Republic .
The crowds were still chanting ........ allah akbar !

But then again , Iran has a very youthful population demi graph .
I would like to have a better idea of the break down of numbers of urban /rural , literatecy levels / unemployment etc etc , we are getting a
particularly skewed perspective of what Iranians want.

I`d like to know the thoughts of the older Iranians living in the countryside , who are not on twitter and facebook , to find some sense of balance to
the story.

Canada says we won't. Get it? Ofcurse you believe what ever your government says right, where is the proof. Remember when Taliban asked America for
proof that Osama Bin Laden was behind the 9/11 attacks guess what America replied in response? It is insufficient. Where's the proof. Where was the
proof when America went to Iraq. Remember those pictures America showed you, yeah those ones, you were the ones who believed it. Where is the proof,
that is a very good question, but seriously now. Canada saying we won't stop interfering is not enough of a proof?

America doesn't realize? Said who? You?

You need to provide proof before spouting off and telling Americans what they should and should not be doing.

Americans still don't realize, why do I say that? Well because your government has been continuously trying to undermine the government of Iran ever
since the American puppet Shah was removed. Remember? Ohh no I have amnesia. In serious notes let us look at some evidence:

A Pakistani tribal militant group responsible for a series of deadly guerrilla raids inside Iran has been secretly encouraged and advised by
American officials since 2005, U.S. and Pakistani intelligence sources tell ABC News.

But that is the past, Obama is here to change everything. RIIIIIIIIIGGGGHHHHHHHT. Remember when Bush said he came to change everything, have you ever
compared Bush speech with Obama speeches? They both ran their presidential campaign based on change. Still don't see change. Still see drones bombing
Pakistani villages and killing innocent people in the process. But ofcurse where is the proof.

OK now let us look at the elections in Iran. All Western media and the Arab media has claimed that it was a rigged election, but where is the proof?
The western media has continuously been claiming that since the opposition lost votes in places where they had support before is a proof of vote
rigging. That is good enough of a proof for you right. Forgetting about the fact that Ahmadinajad lost votes in some areas where he had previously
strong support. WOW the opposition must be vote rigging.

Why does Iran and I accuse the west of interfering?
Let us start from here:

The authorities have branded the protesters as "terrorists" and rioters. Tehran's police commander Azizullah Rajabzadeh warned police would
"confront all gatherings and unrest with all its strength," the official IRNA news agency reported.

Can these violent protest be labeled as an act of terrorism? For America to support these individuals in any way is called interfering, that includes
giving them the access to wide communication.

The US government took the unusual step of asking Twitter to delay a planned maintenance outage because of its use as a communications tool by
Iranians following their disputed election, according to a senior official......

But it also seemed to run counter to President Barack Obama's public efforts not to appear to be meddling in Iran's internal affairs.

That is called interfering. You are giving these individuals who will probably start violent protest and riots a way of communication, if that is not
interfering then what is?

Remember Jundallah? Well they were one of the first to start violence in the pre-elections. Guess who they are supported by, yeah you guessed it
right, America.

Hours earlier, the Al Qaeda-linked group Jundallah, which draws support from Iran's ethnic Baluch minority, claimed responsibility for bombing
the mosque on a Shi'ite religious holiday in a phone call to the Al-Arabiya satellite news channel.

All you individuals who didn't like what I posted read this and bring me your proof that America is not meddling and supporting terrorists against
the government of Iran.

It is ridiculous to think that after almost 40 years of American hostility towards Iran, they will suddenly stop because they have a black president.
Keep dreaming on the land of the free, the home of the slave.

1. There are a number of countries which ban alcohol for social and political reasons, and they're not Muslim countries. Even in WA we've got
towns with total alcohol bans because, of course, the government knows what's best for these people.

Yes, but in Iran your likely to be jailed if you have wine/beer.
They do this for religious reasons.
In remote western Australia, we do this because aboriginal communities spend all there money on booze, instead of their children.
elders getting drunk every night results in kids being raped and killed.

2, 3 and 4. Having been to Iran a couple of times, this comes down to personal choice by the family (although usually the male). Wearing a burkah is
not a religious icon from Islam - it is a social thing.

It used to, but Ahmadinejad brought in new laws.
Dark clothing must be worn
Burqa's must be worn
If too much hair is showing, or makeup is on, the female police warn you and tell you to remove it.
There are many cases that if you walk off and don’t do it, they come and slit your face, to shame and spite you.
Yes, it WAS like that, but in the last few years the current government brought back all makeup/clothing laws.

7. Remember GWBush's first election fraud? He only got elected through nepotism. Do you think in this case the American people were 'allowed' to
have their elected president?

American people seemed to roll over and accept it, I think they were to busy with Big brother, or American Idol.
Which ever came first.

1. No protests? Do you remember American protests during the Vietnam War? They were suppressed by the national guard, and people died. This sounds
fairly similar to what's going on in Iran at the moment...

People were voting against a war in which there sons were fighting.
Today’s riot are people fighting for there freedoms, for there future.
I agree in concept, but they are driven by completely different things.

3. No internet? Sounds fairly similar to the Australian government's 'clean feed' idea, where they want to screen all incoming internet pages, and
only let through what they think is appropriate - don't you think this opens it up to all sorts of corruption?

Yeah, im not for internet feed, not in a single way.
But your allowed to criticise your leaders in Aus, if you do it at the moment in Iran, you'll cop a beating. Keeping child porn out is different from
blocking news and keeping your opinions in.

You can't really nominate all of these problems with Iran. It happens in America, it happens all the time in Israel - these problems are not
exclusive to Islamic countries... there are plenty of examples in the Western nations...

Im not usually one to quote each paragraph, I just felt perhaps you visisted Iran prior to the current regime.
It was nice and a bit 'more free' but that’s changed in the last 5-6 years.

And your right, each country has problems like this, for example, I think it was Fiji, or some pacific nation.
They rioted and blockaded streets for weeks, eventually the elected leader stood down accepting the people didn’t want him.
Do you really think the Ayatollah and Ahmadinejad are just going to step down?

Originally posted by audas
Ahmedinijad was leading in the polls prior the elections, and all indicators are that he won a significant majority - so why are the people protesting
?

Well over 60% of total US expenditure is on domestic and foriegn propaganda aimed at regime change - the name of this is CIA.

You have huge protests supporting Ahmadinijad - where is the coverage of this ?

I can not believe what I am watching, I can not believe that people are falling for the same trick again, and again, and again, and again, and again,
and again - when will you wake up!?

What?!!! The regime are the ones trying the same trick of lying over and over again. This is the first really moronic comment I've read on this
thread.

If Ahmadinejad won why are all these people protesting against him, why the need to use violence, why not just do a proper recount or just run the
election again?

If so many support Ahmadinejad then would these protests not be seen as insulting to them and therefore vote for him again, and maybe increase his
vote count???

Hmmm it seems you haven't thought about this whole situation one bit.

The Ahmadinejad rallies had 20,000 people max. Compare that to the 3 million out last Monday rallying for the opposition.

Oh and don't forget the arabs who aren't even Iranian on the side of the regime that were flown in from Lebanon. Even with extra outside support,
Ahmadinejad's rallies were tiny in comparison. So there's the answer to your question about where's the coverage of his large rallies. It just
never happened. You fell for the regime propaganda and constant lies about Ahmadinejad winning.

You have no evidence of CIA involvement whatsoever.

This is simply not true - the rallies supporting Ahmedinijad have been significantly larger - it is almost the entire country as it is the poor rural
people who support him as opposed to the wealthy upper class of Tehran and the students - consider this - the largest backer of Mousavi owns most of
the Universities in Iran - students ?

Almost all polls, including US polls showed Ahmedinijad was going to win and did win. So answer your won question - why should there be a recount
because the CIA is causing trouble amongst the wealthy elite who are screaming "rigged" - this is EXACTLY what happened in Venezuela and other
countries - why should there be a recount or any other action when foreign secret services are simply stirring up trouble for their own purposes ?

Finally Iran has been the primary focus of global media and US foreign policy for the past 5 years - as if the CIA ISNT involved in the country - if
the CIA is not involved in the country then it would be the most radical intelligence failure of all time - so even common sense tells us that they
are involved.

Propaganda and regime change is the primary mandate of the CIA and the primary focus is IRAN - put two and two together for once.
OR should that be Agent.......

"Once again, Iran is an experimental field for innovative subversive methods. "

"The CIA is relying in 2009 on a new weapon: control of cell phones."

"First, SMS were sent by the CIA during the night of the counting of the votes, according to which the Guardian Council of the Constitution
(equivalent to a constitutional court) had informed Mir-Hossein Mousavi of his victory."

" After that, the announcing of the official results — the re-election of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad with 64 % of cast votes — seemed like a huge fraud.
"

"However, three days earlier, M. Mousavi and his friends were considering a massive victory of M. Ahmadinejad as certain and were trying to explain
it by unbalanced campaigns. "

"Indeed the ex president Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani was detailing his grievances in an open letter."

" The US polling institutes in Iran were predicting a 20 points lead for M. Ahmadinejad over M. Mousavi ."

" M. Mousavi victory never seemed possible, even if it is probable that some fraud accentuated the margin between the two candidates."

"Secondly, Iranian citizens were selected by the CIA or volunteered on the Internet by the CIA to chat on Facebook or to subscribe to Twitter
feeds."

" They received information —true or false— (still via SMS) about the evolution of the political crisis and the ongoing demonstrations. "

"These anonymous news posts by the CIA were spreading news of gun fights and numerous deaths which to this day have not been confirmed. "

"Because of an unfortunate calendar overlap, Twitter was supposed to suspend its service for a night to allow for some maintenance of its
systems."

" The US State Department intervened to ask them to postpone it . According to the New York Times, these operations contributed to spread defiance in
the population."

"Simultaneously, in a new type of effort, the CIA is mobilizing anti-Iranian militants in the United States and in the United Kingdom to increase the
chaos."

" A Practical Guide to revolution in Iran was distributed to them, which contains a number of recommendations, including:
set Twitter accounts feeds to Tehran time zone;
centralize messages on the following Twitter accounts @stopAhmadi, #iranelection and #gr88 ;
official Iranian State websites should not be attacked. « Let the US military take care of it » .

you know what i think you are in the right direction of thinking Ive never wrote on here before but for some reason i just think there's more to the
story we don't really know whats going on we cant trust cnn or msm really because once again they gotta make pay checks i just think this is bigger
than we can think i think the government our government(u.s) has something to do with this. idk just fishy that we are so focused on Iran i am one of
the people not against the people if this ever were to happen in America i would be in the mix i think we kinda need a revolution but a different kind
one more ultimtie freedom freedom from the mind of what it perceives freedom to truly live and think as we wont as you can see it cant last anymore
to me the time of me the time of money of control is dying the people have had enough we as Americans should know whats going on better than anyone we
broke free once from a government long before they say history repeats it self the word change is something of big importance in the world today
CHANGE this is right now on some real s***t look around to the climate to the laws to the universe to our genes its changing an we are watching this
before our eyes this happens everywhere in the world why are we so focused on iran i mean it dosent make sense to me that we go into iraq looking
for nukes dont find them were still there doing god knows what i guess where trying to make a democracy over there or what ever for those guys dont
know if they even want it i mean than n.korea is testing them an were just chilling on some other type of laid back shi t it dosent add up than iran
is talking about nukes an shi t and the people are getting there hearts and are figuring out how stupid the world is government is the rule of law
it is a figment of our imagination i think these people have figured it out everything in the world can be traced to the same line it all falls
together there has to be a reason well anyway am just a open minded college student expressing how i view things cant wait till we as Americans just
have enough of this political bull # that controls not only our future but our feeling s all of this nonsense in the world is furthering us away from
the main reason...why who are we why are we here? pain love what does it mean these are what we need to be focused on not this religion or how ever
you like to think life as only kills creativity of the mind we often lock our selves in position an close our mind to possibles why cant everyone just
stop what ever they are doing an ask them selves some questions like who am i what am i doing you will find that theirs much more important things
than disagreeing with each other we are different all of us not agreeing is natural its explains our uniqueness we need to become more creative not
more destructive more peaceful war only makes more war look i know people gonna argue with this stuff my first post hope you guys dont kill me lol but
hey am from philly so fuc k it ill just rock out ya diggggg!

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