OP have you seen Another, Saffie and Geru play? Even thought Another is a god, the lord of DKs, best dk in the world by far, that comp should still be hard for anyone. its, affli lock, uh dk, hpalla. dat pressure m8, dat pressure... flubbah was sure they wouldve won yaspresents if he had played that comp

It'll be close... Unholy's gargoyle will do decent damage and frost (especially 2h) will see a bit of a drop from the current 2pc bonus being nerfed to 4% increased damage from obliterate and frost strike (down from 10%.)

Unholy's not that bad ATM, the changes will just balance it a little more

Pretty much this. I feel DW frost will be the aoe spec and unholy will be the single target spec. The tier bonus nerf is going to hit 2h pretty hard.

Pretty much this. I feel DW frost will be the aoe spec and unholy will be the single target spec. The tier bonus nerf is going to hit 2h pretty hard.

would like that to be the case personally....

1.) Unholy with the best damage on single target, non switching fights
2.) 2h frost with the best damage on fights where you're switching periodically
3.) DW with the best damage on AOE/cleave fights

I don't see this occurring though ^^

At first glance the nerf to the 2pc t14 will obviously impact 2H frost the most, but then again DW only has about 5-6% downtime at the moment IIRC even when reforged/gemmed to mastery - in t15 it's possible that DW frost will just be capped on resources the entire time, even if reforged and gemmed out of haste completely... that can only mean a DPS loss o.O

2H frost might do a little better overall as people can just reforge out of haste and/or use STR+Crit gems if we start capping resources too often.

I have no idea about unholy... If new weapons aren't readily available then it's possible that the bump to stats on new gear might benefit unholy more? Just a guess though.

Well, like I was pointing to earlier in the thread it really needs to have a Str in one area that is a real Str coupled with the environments you find yourself in during the raids or nobody will pick it.

I think we should have more choices on flavor than pure numbers, but as some of us are very competitive, numbers are everything and anything more than a 1k dps difference is most likely too much for us to enjoy a flavor choice over numbers.

With that said, I find DW Frost very fun and with the numbers being so good ST and Cleave it just forces you to "always" play it. Yet I also find Unholy with a more stable rotation and fun of Empowering the Ghoul very fun as well. After a few months of one spec I wouldn't mind doing the other. Also getting 1 weapon is easier than 2.

They really need to just give Unholy better cleaves and then it'd be fine. I think DT 3 stacks would equal out to the more on demand HB spam of DW. However, currently with Unholy you have to manage the pet in the right place and plus have the right stacks up to guarantee a DT during the cleave time you need it. This isn't particularly crazy difficult, but given the readiness in which DW can HB and not worry about position of a pet, more often than not even the best player will be more reliable getting it right with DW. So Unholy needs to either do MORE dmg during this situation for the micromanagement or we need to limit the micromanagement done...

Something that people aren't thinking about is that the Plague Strike buff lets us switch targets really easily. So easily, in fact, that doing so will be a dps increase as long as things are living for more than a few seconds.

Unholy needs to lose some bloat and add some flavor. The ability to dual wield as Unholy would be pretty awesome too.

Devs don't want us dual-wielding as UH anymore, as per the t11 nerf to sudden doom. They want us to use 2-handers for the spec as it fits with their design scheme better (paraphrasing an old blue post here).

Well honestly, if you look at it from a pure "rune feel/tempo" perspective Unholy already plays like DW in a way, without the PITA of getting 2 weapons. I mean this in the sense that it's main move only costs 1 Rune as does DW with HB. 2Hand Frost uses OBL more often and feels much different. DW uses OBL here and there and is comparable to FS setting up all the death runes which IMO has a similar tempo. I don't see adding DW to Unholy would do anything other than alter the character model...for all intents and purposes though the playstyle is great, we just need again some more passive dmg in the cleave area, or some crazy strong Single Target like monks or what not to make up for lack of cleave.

the real question here is: who gives a steaming pile of crap abotu pve dks? what really mattes is: will UH become viable in PvP in 5.2? I think yes. I have a new name for UHDK, Aff lock and hpally - AIDS cleave...gonna be awesome in 3's, and I think it will be very strong pressure for rbgs.

the real question here is: who gives a steaming pile of crap abotu pve dks? what really mattes is: will UH become viable in PvP in 5.2? I think yes. I have a new name for UHDK, Aff lock and hpally - AIDS cleave...gonna be awesome in 3's, and I think it will be very strong pressure for rbgs.

the real question here is: who gives a steaming pile of crap abotu pve dks? what really mattes is: will UH become viable in PvP in 5.2? I think yes. I have a new name for UHDK, Aff lock and hpally - AIDS cleave...gonna be awesome in 3's, and I think it will be very strong pressure for rbgs.

Unholy is already the top pvp spec in terms of survival/damage/control, especially with a high mastery build with insane blood plague ticks and concrete-hard SR hits (which is something you dont like, i know, which exactly shows what kind of player you are). All they are doing is mainly pve qol changes, it wont affect greatly the pvp aspects of unholy.

^-- Dafuq, soulreaper sucks as a execute against any good team. Pressure is fine/control is good with ghoul control/ survial is ok, could be better against melee and not being lookout on all deff cds when silenced.

Soulreaper hit's for so little compared to cost and setup needed to get it of.

Pity Heal
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Baron Ashbury has pity on you, but only so he can continue inflicting pain! Heals all nearby enemies and allies for 5% health every 1 sec.
Spellid 93705

Unholy is already the top pvp spec in terms of survival/damage/control, especially with a high mastery build with insane blood plague ticks and concrete-hard SR hits (which is something you dont like, i know, which exactly shows what kind of player you are). All they are doing is mainly pve qol changes, it wont affect greatly the pvp aspects of unholy.

More like this inane, brain-dead post shows what kind of player you are. If UH was the top pvp spec, you'd see everyone playing it, but the exact opposite is true. There are a few UH dks out there, but withthe pet micromanagement issues and the orphan rune issues right now, UH is very clunky and difficult to play. And any dk who wastes runes on SR is a complete moron. SR is a waste of a spell for pvp. Any team with an iota of skill will make SR all but useless, and its cost makes it a complete waste of a spell. And I'll see your 60k SR crits and raise you a 100k+ OB crit. Idiot. People like this shouldn't be allowed to post on a forums where there is an actual intelligent discussion happening. And thinking that all the changes are for pve? You, sir, just won the idiot award for the night.