Well, I dealt with yet another NCO CA today, and I've come away with
several impressions regarding the handling of my CSL with CIBC.

1. I am under the impression that for ever case file they get,
they have an intimidating nasty type person call first with the usual
speels:
i: borrow money from the 'rents, or my personal
favourite, "get a loan from another lender to pay this one"... To which
I either think, or if the CA is particularily rude to me i say out
loud, "If I had the finances and the credit in order to get a loan from
someone else, you and I would never have known the other existed
because my loan would not be in default or may even be paid off
completely."
ii: we'll take everything you own
iii: we'll take a percentage of your wages
iv: we know where you live
v: etcetera (we all know, been there, done that)

2. If you know anything about your rights as not only a consumer,
but a human being in this country, you know how the nasty type CA may
and may not talk with you and you are subsequently not intimidated one
iota, then the person who is actually dealing with your case file calls
you. I've found that these people, once a person actually gets to
them, is completely and totally reasonable once you make it abundantly
clear that yes, you'd like to be able to pay the entire thing off,
interest and all and move on with your life, but you simply cannot, and
yes you know that the measly payments you can afford are barely
covering interest if at all, however, it's simply the best one can do
atm.

3. CIBC is very good at staying out of all of the negotiating,
etcetera. It's like they either have no clue what's going on at
all, or they pretend that they don't so as to not get their hands dirty
so to speak. They can then place all the blame on every other
agency affiliated with them for these matters, and take none
themselves. Smart business practice, really, tho not necessarily
very ethical at all.

4. Other than this loan, CIBC has been very good to me.
They preapprove me for hoards of things, like overdrafts,
etcetera. I never have to worry about my pay cheques being held,
even from new employers. I even was told yesterday that I had
been pre-approved to recieve a Visa with a limit up to $1000 if I was
making at least $1250 clear each month. I'm always shocked by
this, considering before they pre-approve this stuff, they pull your
credit rating. Apparently as long as it's not got the absolute
worst rating possible, they'll take a chance on their long term
customers. Of course, these things vary from branch to
branch. I live in a small town, the tellers as me how my mom is
doing.

5. I read a statistic in passing recently in a magazine (I keep
most of them, so if I can find it, I'll post it in it's entirety, or if
anyone else can verify) that CIBC was the bank that got the most CSL
customers statistically (I think it said 45% or there abouts, it was
high) for the year that I attended school (95/96). If that is the
case and the statistic is fairly accurate, I can understand their
toughness with everything.

6. CIBC and the rest of the banks, not to mention the collection
agencies and HRDC are bogged down with so many rules, regulations and
laws governing CSL's alone, that I'm not surprised that we see a great
amount of blundering and harmful mistakes. Unfortunately, we are
on the end of it.

All in all, I'll continue dealing with CIBC as far as my regular
banking goes. I'm happy with everything but this CSL business
with them, and the only reason I'm in the mess I'm in now with my CSL
is because the NSLC "lost" umpteen documents or "didn't receive
anything" by the deadlines they gave me. I almost want to get
myself a small island in the middle of international water and form my
own country. Most of us in the situations we're in are educated
people, we know the system sometimes better than the people that are supposed to know the system.

Wee addition to lil' rant. I won't be boycotting CIBC. As
far as I'm concerned, with having to deal with several different banks
and credit unions here for various reasons from personal stuff to work
stuff, they are by far and away the lesser of the lot of proverbial
evils to deal with.

Our local credit unions are into helping you if they see something in
it for them, the big banks have so many rules and regulations and they
are not willing at all to bend a bit, as they know they can on
occasion. Our local CIBC will do everything they can to help you
get your current situation, whether good or bad, on track with what it
is you wish to do financially. They offer good advice, are
willing to listen to the facts of any given situation to help. At
times, of course, they simply can't do what a person asks, but they
try.

Possibly it's because it's BC, and it's a small community that was hit
hard by all the problems with the forest industry. I don't know
the reasoning. However, I do know that it's highly likely that if
this was a big city, where a person walking through the door is nothing
but an account number, things would be much different. If I were
living in a different community with this same CSL problem that I'm
dealing with now, I probably would join the boycott on CIBC. I
know of many people who've had problems with them with everything,
myself included, while dealing with them in larger centres.

After sending an email to the head of Edulinx, I got a call back from CIBC telling me they were going to look at my file. I've been trying to go to school since January. I think that the McCarthyites and KGB of the 1950's didn't have such extensive files on people. They told me to appeal my application for a student loan. Ya, right!. That's all I need is to haggle some more and be berated by some person who they don't pay enough to even make the minimum payment on my student loan. Er ... no, that'd be the student loan feds who turn it around on me and ask if I might be able to mortgage my mothers home to pay off the loan. ha ha Lucky thing for ma that the house mortgage doesn't belong to the VA anymore or they might consider it.

I feel as if my chances of becoming a software engineer are nil next to none. Welfare would be a step up from this low wage philanthropy I depend on for a subsistence existence. I'm two years away from a degree, but it might as well be an eternity because I'll never save enough to access this elitist, nouveau "Ivy league" education system.

With a grade eight education, my WWII veteran father and uncles had more money and worldly posessions at this same point in their lives. Is it too much to ask for a chance to prove ones self ?.

The federal NDP will offer affordable education. University is free in the social democracies of Europe, and their national debts aren't as large as ours or the U.S.A's.

I'm sorry to have to say this, but you stated that CIBC is committed to it's customers! But what about their employees? They hired me with no sales, and banking experience, and then fired me because I didn't understand everything after three months!

If they don't help their employees what makes you think that they will help customers??????

From my experience (as a customer, not employee), I believe CIBC is committed to shareholders, first, last and always.

To some degree, they are committed to their customers.

To a much lesser degree, they are somewhat committeed to their employees.

It's not that the CIBC managers are unwilling to do something helpful for customers or employees, but they only do so when it is also good for the shareholders. Case in point: student loan customers. CIBC can generate a few extra bucks for the shareholders when loan records contain errors, because they are allowed to take money from students (without specific permission), AND they can take more money from government guarantees on student loans.

Sure, they could avoid problems with student customers by placing a phone call (or sending a letter) during the many months before they are legally allowed to take money from students and governments... but why would they do that?? The shareholders get a few extra bucks when students' lives are destroyed by these common errors in their loan management.

Sean I agree with you absolutely about their shareholders. Funny tho, if they were smart they would realize that it costs more to rehire employees than it does to keep them. When I worked for CIBC they had 12 people in the same position in a 3 year period. (It costs other major banks about $30,000 to hire for that position) That is a loss of about $360,000. Tell that to the shareholders!!

"fired me because I didn't understand everything after three months! "

You must think you're the only person in Canada
who had to go through a 3 month probation!

That's why the CIBC only hires 5% or less of the
Accounting and Finance graduates from universities
every year. They don't want to waste time recruiting
people who will fail, not learn, not meet quality
and professionalism benchmarks, people who will quit
from personal problems or health issues, or get bored
with the job.

"That's why the CIBC only hires 5% or less of the Accounting and Finance graduates from universities every year. They don't want to waste time recruiting people "

Right! and your point is???? That hiring and firing people like this is normal and good for business??? Did they tell me before that they hired me, what their expectations were? Did even know enough to ask? How come they hired 12 people, for that position, before me and all of them quit or were fired? Is it intelligent to keep doing that?? Umm no, cause it costs them more money to hire again. How do you think it affects the public opinion of that bank? I'll tell you that my friends and family won't deal with them now, and that was just me. How many other people have they pissed off before me? Furthermore, if they had such high standards why weren't these standards communicated to me BEFORE I was hired. I had asked what it was like to work for them, and the B.Manager, told me that staff are given goals, rewarded for initiative, and supported in the learning process.

Did they help me succeed? Would they let me come and ask questions? Did they even, help my learning process, by allowing me to work extra hours on my learning?

Nope!! Never!

Now I am working for another major bank and they have put me on a training program that lasts from 6-9 months. They have literally tripled my salary and treat their staff with so much respect! I have passed my probation, and have just received a raise!

The most successful companies always stand behind their employees, whether it is training more feedback etc. If you don't believe me read about Henry Ford, Andrew Carnegie, and Sam Walton of Wal-mart. All of these companies, think of their employees, in terms of long term.

Every other bank in Canada, trains their employees up to 6-9 months. I was told I wasn't under any training after 2. Cibc, is in fourth out of five possible places, in customer service surveys. Maybe there is some kind of connection??? Hmmm who knows??

Furthermore, even some of the best sales people are not always the brightest, or catch on the quickest. Incidentally catching on slower isn't a sign of lack of intelligence, but is rather a sign of different learning patterns. (See Anthony Robbins, Unlimited Power Chapter V The Seven Lies of Success, and Chapter VI Mastering your Mind: How to Run your Brain)

Also I have made a habit, of studying everyone I could see that was or is enormously successful. One of the paramount beliefs that these people always had was the respect for the individual. They see the employee as a #1 asset, hence Sam Walton’s "Our People Make the Difference". Undoubtedly this belief has contributed to them becoming the #1 and largest retailer in the world. (Mind you I know lots of people who are or have worked for Wal-Mart and hate it)

If CIBC's desire is to have the best and the brightest, why don't they administer IQ tests, ask about grades, learning patterns, or the ability to adapt to pressure etc. This would have eliminated the need to hire unsuitable employees, cut back unnecessary expenditures, possibly damaging their reputation within the community, and even perhaps damaging morale with remaining employees.

Anyways that is just my scoop. I don't really want to talk about it more.

I followed the instructions here and the best that I could ever hope for is to have my loan recalled after paying the amount in arrears for interest.

Aside from that they had no desire to fix their mistakes.

They know how badly they have handled documentation but still call into question the fact that the likelyness of their having lost my documentation a 99:1 ratio. I say this because I've read what their error rate is like.

They wanted me to prove that I had sent the documentation. Ok well my sister saw me send it and their own internal documentation states that I spoke with them saying that I sent it. I even sent a money order which was lost by them and as someone who has spent some time homeless I'm afraid that it's been impossible to keep my documentation. So I have to get more documentation, by requesting it.

I can't prove that canada post didn't lose my mail but 3 out of 3 times in a row sounds more like their record for lost things, not canada posts who has a great record for mail delivery. They are trying to claim that without having sent my mail via registered mail that there is absolutely no way that they are responsible for having lost my mail; yet the fact that I sent things 3 FU**ing times and their lousy track record should be enough to prove that they were responsible.

I am going to chat with my PM regarding this and other issues because I want something done about this. I want federal intervention with regards to Edulinx's irresponsible mismanagement of student loans and I feel that there probably are more people out there that cannot entirely prove Edulinx's guilt than there are that can. I feel that Edulinx has a responsibility to ERR on the side of it's victims because there are just too many of them.

In 1998, I received a 6 month interest relief period on the federal and provincial student loans.

However, the fed portion schange dits mind and mailed my notification to my old address. They had my new address (I was very careful of this fact when I moved - further, the new address is where I applied from).

In any event, I commenced making my payments (nearly finaished now - never missed one).

However, I started getting collection letters and telephone calls at home.

I must have spoken to at least 6 different people at the CIBC, 10 at the collectiosn agency (who still to this day breaks every section of the collections legislation) and the feds.

Teh feds told me I have to deal with their collections company.

I have repeatedly requested the documents but no one can find them.

The worst part is, I have almost paid the debt in full. That is, I received interest relief but their system says I defaulted even though I have paid off the full amount nearly. There was no default but no one will listen or give a darn enough to investigate this.

It ruined my credit rating for the longest time.

CIBC will not and would not listen. The collection agency just keeps changing their little minions.

I was just recently told they are going to sue me. I welcome this because I want to counterclaim for damages, emotional distress and anything else I can think of.

Further, they will be unable to provide any documentation to prove anything - at least they have not yet. My bank records plus the amount of the debt prove I have been making regular payments.

It simply galls me. The complete arrogant presumption with which I have been treated is horrible.

I am thinking of suing them in any event because the notation is still against my credit rating.

After reading all of these stories, I realise my problems are not
so unique. I am dealing with a collection agency because
CIBC will not acknowledge my interest relief even though I
have been approved by both BC student loans and for my
Federal student loan. They call me at 7 in the morning
repeatedly, sometimes earlier. They also harrassed me even
when I had just made a payment (the agreed amount) and
when they had post-dated cheques in their possesion that had
not even been cashed yet. They wanted more cheques. Here
is a problem I have not encountered on this site...Has anyone
recieved calls from someone claiming to be from CIBC and
then when you call them back they say that they never called
you?
This has happened to me twice. I believe it is a person from the
collection agency pretending to be from the bank. I have no
idea why they would do this, it is idiotic and counter productive.
I demanded to know from CIBC who from their office had called
me and what it was concerning and they at first claimed that no
one had called and to talk to the collection agency. I refused
because the message I recieved said to talk to CIBC and left
their phone number. CIBC then said that they would look into
it, and would call me back....they never did (twice). I demanded
to know why the person calling me would not leave a name or
extension # and she replied that they have no extension
numbers and do not leave names. WHAT???? I am about to
rip my hair out! Every person I talk to is useless at CIBC. They
lie, they break laws, they ruin lives, who's going to stop them? I
should have borrowed from the Mafia, not the bank.

Thanks for your reply Johnny. I am glad you are out there. I
have sought help from legal aid, and they have provided me
with some very useful information and links that I hope others
can use as well. Here they are, though please be aware this
info may only pertain to BC laws....
-you can send the collection agency a letter that they can only
correspond with you in writing at your home address. Quote
section 116 & 117 of the Business Practices and Consumer
Protection Act (send this letter by registered mail, it is now
against the law for them to call you AND you have a written
record of any harrasment or lies).
-to report complaints of unfair treatment by collection agencies
call 1-888 564 9963 this is the # for the Business Practices and
Consumer Protecion Authority
-If you have no written records from the Collection Agency, ask
for a written notice in writing and quote section 115 of the
Business Practices and Consumer Protection Act
I will post more info as I get it.

About a year ago my boyfriend paid off his student loans. Now the CIBC has taken all of his money and it went to Alliance One. There was no warning or any sort of notice. He has tired calling Alliance numberous times, but either gets their answering machine or told he has to talk to a specific person, which he cannot get a hold of either. Can they actually take all your money and not even give a reason? He has all the receipts from paying off the student loan and has no clue why they took his money. Now he can't pay for rent or even food. Is this legal? Has anyone else been through this?

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