Hikers John O'Brien of Seattle and his friend Betsy O'Hare of Menands walk along the Indian Ladder Trail at Thacher State Park on Thursday, Sept. 19, 2013 in Voorheesville, N.Y. (Lori Van Buren / Times Union)

Hikers John O'Brien of Seattle and his friend Betsy O'Hare of Menands walk along the Indian Ladder Trail at Thacher State Park on Thursday, Sept. 19, 2013 in Voorheesville, N.Y. (Lori Van Buren / Times Union)

Photo: Lori Van Buren

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The Indian Ladder Trail at Thacher State Park on Thursday, Sept. 19, 2013 in Voorheesville, N.Y. (Lori Van Buren / Times Union)

The Indian Ladder Trail at Thacher State Park on Thursday, Sept. 19, 2013 in Voorheesville, N.Y. (Lori Van Buren / Times Union)

Photo: Lori Van Buren

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The Indian Ladder Trail at Thacher State Park on Thursday, Sept. 19, 2013 in Voorheesville, N.Y. (Lori Van Buren / Times Union)

The Indian Ladder Trail at Thacher State Park on Thursday, Sept. 19, 2013 in Voorheesville, N.Y. (Lori Van Buren / Times Union)

Photo: Lori Van Buren

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The Indian Ladder Trail at Thacher State Park on Thursday, Sept. 19, 2013 in Voorheesville, N.Y. (Lori Van Buren / Times Union)

The Indian Ladder Trail at Thacher State Park on Thursday, Sept. 19, 2013 in Voorheesville, N.Y. (Lori Van Buren / Times Union)

Photo: Lori Van Buren

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The Indian Ladder Trail at Thacher State Park in Voorheesville. (Lori Van Buren / Times Union)

The Indian Ladder Trail at Thacher State Park in Voorheesville. (Lori Van Buren / Times Union)

Photo: Lori Van Buren

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The Indian Ladder Trail at Thacher State Park on Thursday, Sept. 19, 2013 in Voorheesville, N.Y. (Lori Van Buren / Times Union)

The Indian Ladder Trail at Thacher State Park on Thursday, Sept. 19, 2013 in Voorheesville, N.Y. (Lori Van Buren / Times Union)

Photo: Lori Van Buren

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View from under the overhang at a dry Minelot Falls along the Indian Ladder Trail at Thacher State Park on Thursday, Sept. 19, 2013 in Voorheesville, N.Y. (Lori Van Buren / Times Union)

View from under the overhang at a dry Minelot Falls along the Indian Ladder Trail at Thacher State Park on Thursday, Sept. 19, 2013 in Voorheesville, N.Y. (Lori Van Buren / Times Union)

Photo: Lori Van Buren

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The Indian Ladder Trail at Thacher State Park on Thursday, Sept. 19, 2013 in Voorheesville, N.Y. (Lori Van Buren / Times Union)

The Indian Ladder Trail at Thacher State Park on Thursday, Sept. 19, 2013 in Voorheesville, N.Y. (Lori Van Buren / Times Union)

Photo: Lori Van Buren

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Sign with the escarpment in background at Thacher State Park on Thursday, Sept. 19, 2013 in Voorheesville, N.Y. (Lori Van Buren / Times Union)

Sign with the escarpment in background at Thacher State Park on Thursday, Sept. 19, 2013 in Voorheesville, N.Y. (Lori Van Buren / Times Union)

Photo: Lori Van Buren

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Legal rock climbs at Thacher state park under review

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Editor's note: This story has been updated to indicate the 2012 climbing death of a New Jersey woman happened at the Mohonk Preserve, which abuts Minnewaska State Park.

New Scotland

The cliffs at John Boyd Thacher State Park offer unparalleled views of the Hudson River Valley, a dwarfed Albany skyline and, soon, a blazing display of fall foliage.

They also offers views of black, white and red signs imprinted with the words "DANGER. Do not cross fence. STEEP DROP OFF. Violators will be prosecuted."

The signs are posted every 25 to 30 feet along a wooden fence that runs along the cliffs.

In the future, the warnings could change if rock climbing is legalized. A draft master plan for Thompson's Lake and Thacher state parks released over the summer outlines climbing as a potential activity.

But any change to the cliff policy — which officials say would follow additional studies — is likely to be put under a microscope because of safety concerns, especially following the Sept. 13 death of a climber.

"It is a very dangerous activity, so I'm worried about safety," said John Kilroy, president of Friends of Thacher Park and Thompson's Lake State Park, a nonprofit that supports educational and interpretive programs.

More Information

Rock climbing is not permitted at the park, but is part of Thacher Park's history — the Indian Ladder Trail area gets its name from Native Americans' tree-trunk ladders that led up the Helderberg Escarpment. Today, the sport of rock climbing remains illegal there.

Thacher would become the second state park in New York to offer climbing: It's currently allowed at Minnewaska State Park in Ulster County on the Shawangunk rock formation. Other climbing areas in the state, such as the Adirondacks, are on Department of Environmental Conservation lands. The Adirondacks are within DEC's Adirondack Forest Preserve.

In the past few decades, a number of people have been injured or killed at Thacher Park, in some cases plummeting more than 100 feet in accidental falls or suicides.

The state office of Parks, Recreation & Historic Preservation, which oversees Thacher Park, did not provide statistics on hiking or climbing accidents there and at other state parks, despite repeated requests. However, regarding DEC managed lands, DEC spokesperson Lori Severino said there are few accidents each year.

According to Times Union archives, at Thacher Park, eight people have died, four have been injured — in some cases seriously — and four others people were rescued following cliff falls at Thacher since 1989. Most recently, on Sept. 13, Ronald Czajkowski, 44, of East Greenbush, fell after police say he may not have properly tied his climbing knot. He was found at the base of the cliffs Sept. 13 after he had apparently been climbing illegally.

Among the most recent accidents in the Shawangunks was a New Jersey woman's death after she fell while rappelling down a cliff at the Mohonk Preserve, which abuts Minnewaska State Park, according to an Associated Press story from April 2012.

Written concern about rock climbing in the Thacher draft master plan centers on how the limestone layers at Thacher differ from the rock at Minnewaska. Potential climbing routes at Thacher are marred by unstable areas, the park's draft environmental impact statement, or DEIS, notes.

"A significant amount of additional studying will be done with additional partners to make sure we set up a program that is workable, safe and enjoyable," she said.

Questions have arisen about how the upstate New York climate affects limestone. The report states that the wetter climate constantly weathers and dissolves limestone, potentially making it less stable.

"The rock has been eroding for millions of years," he said. "In 10 years, it's not going to change. It's not going to change as a result of climbing or different processes."

Still, falling rock and rock slides are a possibility along the limestone.

The DEIS cites numerous examples of recent and historical rock falls, though it's nearly impossible to determine when rock instabilities would arise. In 2000, four hikers were caught on a hillside slide near the Indian Ladder Trail, according to a Times Union story from that time.

Officials check for loose rock above the Indian Ladder Trail, according to the DEIS, and there could be plans to keep hikers on that trail away from climbing routes, so as to not be in the way of a rock fall or interfere with climbers, for that matter.

Kilroy said climbing could be a boon to business, though how much of destination Thacher Park would be for climbers remains to be seen.

"It's always a good thing when you get more people into the park and more people using the park," Kilroy said.

He said his group is neutral on climbing legalization, but they aren't without their concerns. Chief is safety.

"Would it be intermediate or expert level?" he said. "We want to make sure word goes out that if you are a beginner or novice, you might want to try something simpler."

Chinian said the state will look to work with local climbing groups in developing a plan. She said local officials would incorporate as much as they can from information provided by Minnewaska State Park officials.

Plans for climbers to legally scale the cliffs are far from set in stone. A final environmental impact statement for the draft master plan and extensive studies must be completed.