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Re: Peyton Manning's legacy if Denver wins SB XLVIII

I don't know why this surprises anyone the NFC is a superior conference the real SB was the SF/Seattle game. Regular season MVP is a jinx though have always said that now the media will call Manning a choker and how his career is worthless.

Good thing Russell Wilson is a likeable person I can be happy for him because I hate that Pete Carroll has a ring beyond that Seattle doesn't bother me.

Irsay and Kravitz are thrilled I knew that as soon as Kravitz wrote that article they were going to get jinxed and Irsay pretending to want this for Manning. Well played.

Re: Peyton Manning's legacy if Denver wins SB XLVIII

Well if that were the case then don't you think Brady could've beaten Lil Manning in one of those Super Bowls especially the first one... I mean the Patriots were the better team just not when it counted apparently.

see highlighted words

...if you are Peyton Manning, and if you are playing anyone at all in the first round of the NFL playoffs,...

The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

Re: Peyton Manning's legacy if Denver wins SB XLVIII

It's not Manning's fault that he can never play on a team with a good defense.

except when his team had the #1 defense in the entire NFL (points allowed) in 2007-08

The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

Re: Peyton Manning's legacy if Denver wins SB XLVIII

a punter abused them when it counted. But that was one year in which, in the regular season anyway, PM did not have to carry the whole load

The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

Re: Peyton Manning's legacy if Denver wins SB XLVIII

a punter abused them when it counted. But that was one year in which, in the regular season anyway, PM did not have to carry the whole load

I will go to my grave maintaining that Mike Scifres was the MVP of that game for San Diego. To me, that was by far the most maddening loss of the PM playoff years. A close second would be the Mark Sanchez-led Jets beating them a year later (I think it was the next year at least).

Re: Peyton Manning's legacy if Denver wins SB XLVIII

I think Irsay probably looked at it much like I did-
Rooting for Peyton to win, but if he was going to lose then do it in a way that helps validate the decision to not re-sign Manning.

I'm not going to feel sorry for Manning because he lost. For now he's a Bronco, not a Colt.

If you really believe he was rooting for Peyton to win then you must think he was rooting for the Patriots to wax us 3 weeks ago.

Even if the Broncos won the decision was right for the long term of the franchise I just had an issue with Irsay's BS revisionist history on the whole thing he didn't think Manning had much left or another SB run and wasn't worth the price.

To say he let Manning go so he can win elsewhere and that the roster wasn't good enough for an SB run is what he wants to tell himself to make him feel better.

Re: Peyton Manning's legacy if Denver wins SB XLVIII

Peyton has more turnovers than TDs in Superbowls in which he has played. He threw the game clinching INT against the Saints and was terrible for the entire game against Seattle. He didn't even play that well against the Bears.

I disagree with the XLI review, he played one of his better games as a Colt in that game...

He simply took what the Bears defense gave him with audibles and decisions to run the ball and check the ball down to Addai in the passing game. He even took the punishment and delivered a perfect pass to Wayne on the broken coverage.

Basically he didn't play like he usually does...

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Re: Peyton Manning's legacy if Denver wins SB XLVIII

It doesn't "hurt" it. He still is what he is before the season started - one of the greatest QB's ever who owns a lot of records, has the most MVP's, and will go down as a first ballot HOF'er. A top 5 QB in most people's minds.

But he didn't help his legacy, and that's what is key. He had the opportunity to win a late career Super Bowl, which would have been a major feather in his cap and caused plenty of people to rethink his place amongst the all time greats. It honestly would have given him enough ammo for many to consider him the GOAT, IMO. But it was another missed opportunity and will allow the "yeah, but he only has 1 ring" talk to continue. It's a fair criticism at this point. He has had two opportunities to get a second ring and just hasn't gotten the job done. Not that it's all his fault or anything, but he made plenty of mistakes last night and deserves a substantial amount of the game. The problem with him is that he comes into a game with an intensely prepared game plan that has to be executed to scripted perfection. It works most of the time, particularly in the regular season, but things change in the playoffs. You often can't execute to scripted perfection against a team like Seattle, which means that you have to improvise. He can't make "something out of nothing" with his feet like an athletic QB, nor does he have the arm strength to throw fast darts into a tight window. He had dejected look on his face as soon as that safety hit because it completely threw the plan off.

Re: Peyton Manning's legacy if Denver wins SB XLVIII

If you really believe he was rooting for Peyton to win then you must think he was rooting for the Patriots to wax us 3 weeks ago.

Even if the Broncos won the decision was right for the long term of the franchise I just had an issue with Irsay's BS revisionist history on the whole thing he didn't think Manning had much left or another SB run and wasn't worth the price.

To say he let Manning go so he can win elsewhere and that the roster wasn't good enough for an SB run is what he wants to tell himself to make him feel better.

Yeah, I agree 100% with this. There was no need to open it up and try anything stupid in that game, especially when you factor in the rain. We were going to win that game by sticking to Rhodes and the running game, which is exactly what we did. Peyton executed brilliantly in that game, no doubt about it.

Re: Peyton Manning's legacy if Denver wins SB XLVIII

It shouldn't but the media will say it will as "this SB loss forever damages his legacy as the "GOAT" just like they said the same exact thing about the SB loss to the Saints. That was worse because the Colts were the better team. The Broncos weren't. If Denver was in the NFC they would've probably been a 4th seed at best.

Even if the Broncos won it still wouldn't have made him the GOAT anyways.

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Re: Peyton Manning's legacy if Denver wins SB XLVIII

See I would put Favre over Elway and maybe Brady. I am considering tangibles, skill, fortitude, surrounding team, and SB wins. Favre has all of those. Whether in -10, 10, or 70 degrees. Peyton needs the right conditions, the right team, and the right opponent.

Re: Peyton Manning's legacy if Denver wins SB XLVIII

See I would put Favre over Elway and maybe Brady. I am considering tangibles, skill, fortitude, surrounding team, and SB wins. Favre has all of those. Whether in -10, 10, or 70 degrees. Peyton needs the right conditions, the right team, and the right opponent.

Yeah, but he was also pretty reckless with the ball throughout his career. He threw interceptions at a way higher rate than a Manning or Brady.

But there's no doubt that Favre had several things over Manning: arm strength, ability to play in cold weather, better at improvising after a play breaks down. I'd still put Manning and definitely Brady above him though, but that's just me. I can buy into the Favre over Elway argument though.

Re: Peyton Manning's legacy if Denver wins SB XLVIII

Yes. Especially if this is the last time he gets there. It all depends on how much one weights the regular season but to me unless he wins it next year Manning (like Farve) can be in the conversation for GOAT but he is not a serious contender.

Is it just me or does Manning not firing on all cylanders effect the rest of his team more than any other QB in history? A couple of games in the 2006 run not withstanding it just seems if Peyton is off his game even a little everybody else and all other phases of the game completely under perform.

Re: Peyton Manning's legacy if Denver wins SB XLVIII

Yes. Especially if this is the last time he gets there. It all depends on how much one weights the regular season but to me unless he wins it next year Manning (like Farve) can be in the conversation for GOAT but he is not a serious contender.

Is it just me or does Manning not firing on all cylanders effect the rest of his team more than any other QB in history? A couple of games in the 2006 run not withstanding it just seems if Peyton is off his game even a little everybody else and all other phases of the game completely under perform.

Favre can be in the conversation but Manning has to win another ? Even though he's already been to one more SB since Favre on a different team no less. Otherwise I do agree the teams live and die by Manning except in 2006. Very strange indeed.

Re: Peyton Manning's legacy if Denver wins SB XLVIII

Favre can be in the conversation but Manning has to win another ? Even though he's already been to one more SB since Favre on a different team no less. Otherwise I do agree the teams live and die by Manning except in 2006. Very strange indeed.

Actually I mean't both can be in the conversation but neither is a serious contender.

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Re: Peyton Manning's legacy if Denver wins SB XLVIII

Favre was a great QB but those 336 interceptions are a bit much to swallow.

A thought question- imagine Tom Brady continued to throw interceptions at the rate he threw them this year, very much an off year by his standards. How many more seasons would Brady have to play in order to match Favre in career interceptions?

answer: 19 more seasons.

Brady: 134
Montana: 139
Manning: 219
Elway: 226
Favre: 336

and, not surprisingly, his INT rate ROSE in postseason play.

The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

Re: Peyton Manning's legacy if Denver wins SB XLVIII

If you judged Peyton Manning's legacy / career as higher than Tom Brady's a year ago, 6 months ago, or even a week ago, it seems logical to think that any supposed gap between them has only widened, in Peyton's favor.

If you had Peyton Manning's legacy /career as lower than Tom Brady's a year ago, 6 months ago, or even a week ago, it seems logical to think that any supposed gap between them has narrowed, in Peyton's favor.

Peyton had a better season and yes a better postseason than Tom Brady, who went 1-1 instead of 2-1, and had a subpar game in the Patriots loss to Manning's team, wuth Manning playing exceptionally well.

Peyton was better yesterday, since Brady was not proficient enough to even be permitted to play. 0-1 is in fact better than 0-0.

Yes, that flies in the face of the stupid tendency to put EVERYTHING on the outcome of one game, the SUPER BOWL, the loser of which is THE NFL'S BIGGEST LOSER, supposedly.

You know, the stupid logic that, for example, ridicules the 2007 Patriots for "choking" in the Super Bowl as a big favorite, something that, after all, nobody else did. Nobody else lost in the Super Bowl that day! San Diego, losers of the AFCCG to NE two weeks before, were better than New England that year, or at least had a more successful postseason, being 0-0 in the Super Bowl. As were the Colts, losers of in the division round to San Diego, who also went 0-0 in the Super Bowl. Everyone knows it is of utmost importance to "never have lost in the Super Bowl" (even though you avoided that fate by losing sooner.)

Does anyone else see how silly this popularly applied "logic" is?

The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)