I am talking about myself. I know me pretty darn good. I have not denied that my knowledge of Jesus, real or not, derives from the bible. You are the one that can not figure out how to think outside the box. .

On the contrary June, when you decided that Jesus’ teachings is so valuable to you, you chose to listen to parts of the Bible. You may not think of yourself as a Christian, but you are because you believe in Jesus. You’re not the only Christian who chooses to split the Jesus from the Bible. It just sounds like to me a lot of the Christians are afraid of realizing something about their religion and starts going, “I have a personal relationship with Jesus, Christianity is not a religion.”

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You are all like" Christianity bible god is so wicked and puny so god does not exist." BS! Christians, Jesus's followers, fail at the love, and judge not parts, so God does not exist. Well for a critical thinker as myself, I say that's pretty lame evidence for such an humongerous mystery. I say all the stories of ancient past are strange but they have one thing in common. They believed there was a power out of our control that we depend on for our existence. An Awesome, Intelligent Power that produces life. They came up with rituals, religions and traditions to honor the Source of life. Seems history tells us that the rituals, religions and traditions were in vain for most. Then there comes the Christian Religion. Very profitable and deceivingly moral. It still boils down to human opinions.

Well, the God is a viciously, wicked, megalomaniacal deity according to what the Bible says. The thing is, it’s not that the God is horrid is why I don’t believe he exists, it’s just that there’s no evidence. Profitable and deceivingly moral? Hardly moral at all. It is indeed from human point of views and opinions of their religious beliefs.

Let me ask you something June, does it make sense to want to pull away Luke Skywalker from Star Wars and throw away the rest of it? If by pulling Jesus from the Bible, it has no legs to stand because it is entirely from the Bible. All of the teachings, all of the things about Jesus is solely from the Bible, nowhere else.

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My opinion is that the Source of our life Loves us and is bound by celestial laws that we are not aware of. The laws that make time and space possible.I feel the spirit inside of my fleshly walls. I feel connected with The Source of life and when I am free of this flesh I will return to that same source to be held accountable for my life; justly and fairly. I have no idea what heaven is, for me it would be my family and friends there making music, dancing on stars and helping on earth if that's allowed. As awesome as earth is I Imagine Heaven way more glorious, splentastical, than earth. Maybe it's an earth without all the suffering of this one. No pain, sadness, hunger, poverty, death! For the greedy and violent ones another round of this earth.

Well that sounds like a sweet thought, but it doesn’t make it factual. For all you know, there just might not be a Heaven or anything after death.

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See I look at it like this. I take the best of mankind's qualities multiply x's 10,000,000 or more and that's God to me.

So what you’re saying is that the quality of man is all attributed or a work of some God? I may be wrong here but are you saying that from tens of thousands of years from short lifespan, little education, little technology, high mortality rate by disease and predators to long lifespan, high level of education, advanced technologies, and more was by God and not by the hard work of another person?

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Me:What are you looking at Eminem?Brother: Nothing, Harry Potter.

I love to read books, just not your Bible. i support gay rights and women's rights. Why? Because i'm tired of the hate, stupidity, and your desire to control us all and make up lies.

I entertain the notion that Jesus was a man just like you that gave his life so that many generations would not suffer the same as previous generations. I read it with an open mind and try to place myself in the time period the story transpired. It is not unreasonable to presume that this heroes story was embellished for manipulation purposes. This point of view is not at all Christian so drop it already. There is nothing you could ever say to me to convince me that I am Christian. What you convince yourself does matter to me. I want you to understand who I really am not what you've concocted in your relentless attempt to prove me Christian.

I'm sure that would makes things easier for you because you're familiar with taking down the Christian. Well I am not a Christian and I intend to be much harder to break.

As far as animals having emotions. OneGod, Eyes have a tendency to water in sick and dying animals. I never meant to imply that I think animals are completely w/o emotions. My opinion is they are not as intense as human emotions and weaken as you get lower on the food chain. Did not see any flies, ants, cockroaches, ticks or fleas, any fish, snakes or crocs. I do not see the families of those poor animals hovered around crying over their pending deaths. No doubt imposed by a human that needs more emotional content.

William,

I appreciate your delicate analogy of the so called dodge but I still refute it. I gave you my honest analysis of what I think. You can disagree with that all you like and that's OK but what you can't do is say I've done something I haven't. I haven't dodged anybody here.

I've had a very rough couple of weeks. Speaking of rough...

Hey Nam. How ya doing?

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Hope this day finds you doing well... prepare yourself so you can be a rainbow in somebody else's cloud. Somebody who may not look like you. May not call God the same name you call God - if they call God at all. I may not dance your dances or speak your language. But be a blessing to somebody. Maya

You smited me recently for stating that your belief does not come from the Bible. If you believe in Jesus then your belief comes from the Bible.

So for future reference: any other smites you give me better be worth giving, and not based on your insanity of logic.

-Nam

I almost smote you again. Every time you say this you are wrong.

I like what Yoda says to Luke Skywalker,"there is no try only do". Those words inspire me. I say it to my son all the time. I draw inspiration from fiction all the time. So what if I think Jesus was a real person, I do not claim knowledge of his Godliness, only that "if" real was a great man. I don't believe in hell and I think if you're a good man you will have a good afterlife despite your atheism, not Christian. I say the bible is a disgrace to God and buddy that is so unchristian it makes me NOT A CHRISTIAN. THERE IS NOTHING I WOULD LIKE TO SEE MORE THAN CHRISTIANS MINDING THEIR OWN BUSINESS or actually live up to their leader's teachings.

It's called spiritual not religious. Get used to it because we are a growing population. I've posted links before that collaborates what I just said. You're going to have a much harder time picking that apart.

Take care

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Hope this day finds you doing well... prepare yourself so you can be a rainbow in somebody else's cloud. Somebody who may not look like you. May not call God the same name you call God - if they call God at all. I may not dance your dances or speak your language. But be a blessing to somebody. Maya

I'm going to respond to jdawg, William, Samothec and Timtheskeptic with this post....This is for all of the above. It's like a need at this point to me for you to insist that I'm Christian. Do you think this would discredit me in some way? If you could just prove I'm Christian then my views are moot? I think that's what this is. I can think of no other reason why someone would insist I am what I say I am not.

I capitalize the name of God because it is a name. To show respect to the Creator. I have no other name. We are all familiar with this name.

Seriously? This is your response to my post (#60 above)? Sigh. It's like you didn't even read it - at all. In fact, I can't see anything that supports the idea that you read it since I explained what you question here. I had begun to think there was a chance to talk and reason with you. Now, not so much.

I'm sorry Sam I didn't mean to. Your post was very well written and you're right it deserves a better response. As far as ID only coming from the bible;you're article does suggest that. Only it makes more sense to me that ID came before the bible. Someone had the idea before writing it down. All the attributes the biblical authors assigned to God is their interpretation. All that I say is mine. Our belief in a powerful source of life comes from the mind not a book. With more knowledge at my disposal my interpretation should be different.

I'm not a sloppy thinker or writer. I know my writing skills are not perfect but I'm quite fond of the way I think. My English classes taught me to capitalize proper names. I could call my interpretation of this power, The Great Scientist. I don't believe The Great Scientist willed anything into existence but built it with the elements of the universe and an endless supply of intelligence. I like "God" better so I'm sticking with that. People would understand me fine w/o their blinders on. If for one minute their motive was to understand me not to contradict me. Only once there is an honest understanding of me can a true conversation begin.

You say you don't begrudge me of my Loving Creator but yet feel the need to "reason" with me.

Maybe I should just give up and join the church already!!! Oh that's right I'd have to give up my Sweet Love for that. Not gonna happen. Sometimes I capitalize for fun.

If I'm going to be a lesbian Christian that changes Christianity and it should be right up there in the news so that everybody knows that gays are now welcome to be gay by the Christian community and will not face eternal hell fire. As atheist you should understand better than anybody why I am not a Christian follower. You have your rights and I have the same. I don't have to name my belief and neither do any of you.

Take care

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Hope this day finds you doing well... prepare yourself so you can be a rainbow in somebody else's cloud. Somebody who may not look like you. May not call God the same name you call God - if they call God at all. I may not dance your dances or speak your language. But be a blessing to somebody. Maya

A Christian is a follower of Christ. If you believe that Jesus is Christ then that makes you a Christian. However, the first place Jesus is mentioned is in the books of the Bible, New Testament. If you believe he is the Christ, then that was first mentioned in the Old Testament.

Jesus teachings come from the New and the Old Testament since that's the only place his words are mentioned[1] (minus the books that were left out of the NT).

So, when you say the Bible is a disgrace, you are also saying that Jesus is a disgrace unless you can show that he said anything in any other text that predates the books in the Bible.

Can you? Of course not because there aren't any (minus the books left out but they all date around the same time as the ones that were accepted as canon).

Therefore, if you believe in Jesus and follow his teachings, and that he is Christ then you are a Christian.If you believe in Jesus and his teachings but not that he's Christ, then you can't say all of the Bible is a disgrace to the god of the Bible because that's the only evidence (minus those rejected books) that states this man ever existed.

Now, you can yell and scream and smite all day long but you make yourself look like the fool not any of us.

A Christian is a follower of Christ. If you believe that Jesus is Christ then that makes you a Christian. However, the first place Jesus is mentioned is in the books of the Bible, New Testament. If you believe he is the Christ, then that was first mentioned in the Old Testament.

Jesus teachings come from the New and the Old Testament since that's the only place his words are mentioned[1] (minus the books that were left out of the NT).

So, when you say the Bible is a disgrace, you are also saying that Jesus is a disgrace unless you can show that he said anything in any other text that predates the books in the Bible.

Can you? Of course not because there aren't any (minus the books left out but they all date around the same time as the ones that were accepted as canon).

Therefore, if you believe in Jesus and follow his teachings, and that he is Christ then you are a Christian.If you believe in Jesus and his teachings but not that he's Christ, then you can't say all of the Bible is a disgrace to the god of the Bible because that's the only evidence (minus those rejected books) that states this man ever existed.

Now, you can yell and scream and smite all day long but you make yourself look like the fool not any of us.

in the sense of the OT that in the NT Jesus doesn't deny any of the laws in the OT

Nam I clearly state in the OP that the new testament wasn't as offensive as the old. Regardless, I don't believe it to be the words of God but words of man. Men trying to understand the mysteries of life living in much different times than ours.

It is not foolish to say when someone is making false claims about you. It is foolish not to.

Being inspired and following are two different things. I only follow my heart. That's why I'm so damn sensitive you know.

You can play your word games all you want it doesn't change the fact that you are trying desperately hard to assign something to me as a person that I am not. I don't know exactly what your motives are for doing this but they are not noble I'm sure.

It is beyond silly to me at this point to continue to engage you in this discussion. If I was Christian I'd say I was. I'm not, so there it is. End of this ridiculous debate. Your lack of understanding is no longer my responsibility it is a lack of knowledge on your part. You can either seek the knowledge necessary to understand me or continue to mislead yourself. It's up to you. I truly believe you don't honestly want to understand me.

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Hope this day finds you doing well... prepare yourself so you can be a rainbow in somebody else's cloud. Somebody who may not look like you. May not call God the same name you call God - if they call God at all. I may not dance your dances or speak your language. But be a blessing to somebody. Maya

As far as ID only coming from the bible; you're article does suggest that. Only it makes more sense to me that ID came before the bible. Someone had the idea before writing it down.

So someone had the idea that there was an intelligent designer who created the universe billions of years ago and set things into motion only giving it a nudge here and there to have it develop how it wants the universe to develop. Eventually that person wrote down the idea. But there's a bit of a problem. No one knew that the universe was billions of years old before the Bible was written so, no, ID did not come before the Bible.[1]

Deciding in your own mind that ID was thought up several thousand years before it was really imagined is one of those things you should not believe. And if you do anyways then it is something you should NOT be telling to anyone, ever. For comparison, think about how you'd react to someone saying there were Scientologists around when the Jews were in Egypt. Or that Mormons helped build the ark. That is the area you've drifted into when you say ID came before the Bible. No one had the idea and then waited 5700 years to write it down.

You say you don't begrudge me of my Loving Creator but yet feel the need to "reason" with me.

Yes, because you say many things which make you sound like a christian yet you bitterly complain when people refer to you in what has always been an appropriate manner with everyone else who talks about Jesus and ID. So I tried (and failed) to reason with you about your terminology to help you have fewer problems about whether or not people refer to you as a christian.

Let me just say this. Christians do not consider me Christian. I think they would know better than an atheist if I was part of their religion. Go ahead ask them.

I swear, I'm speaking of the theory of gods. People thought of gods before the bible was written. It was not bible then the idea.

I have said before the theory should change as we grow more knowledgeable. We have to apply new knowledge to what we think about God, like the age of the planet. Well at least that's how I approach the idea. Oh yea Christians don't do that do they? Guess I'm not a Christian then. I could list a hundred things about me that's not Christian and just because I like not worship the loving instructions of Jesus you want to put a Christian stamp on my head and call it a day. Not going to happen.

It is downright childish of any of you to continue this insistence of Christianity. That religion hates me. They condemn me to hell right above you. At least you're not an abomination!!! I would rather be called a whore,slut, scalawag, or an idiot than be put in that box. You are disregarding a lot of Christian tradition to call me one.

It's over I am not a Christian. You can say I am 1001 times and you'd be wrong 1001 times.

I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN

Hope this day finds you doing well... prepare yourself so you can be a rainbow in somebody else's cloud. Somebody who may not look like you. May not call God the same name you call God - if they call God at all. I may not dance your dances or speak your language. But be a blessing to somebody. Maya

JB, you should just find a LGBT friendly church and be done with it since thats what fits your SPAG. You are doing no different than what literally every Christian has done and must do because it is impossible to agree with everything in the bible due to its contradictory nature. They all simply state that the parts they agree with are the "Truth" while the parts that are not beneficial to them they either ignore or call man made or whatever. Every Christian does it, even you, as evidenced here.

I dont know how much more clear the good folks here can make it. You believe in the Jesus myth, therefore you are a Christian, and B you also believe in the bible. Its not even debatable. You can make proclamations against it all you want, but everything you say leads back to you are a Christian exercising your own personal SPAG.

Let me just say this. Christians do not consider me Christian. I think they would know better than an atheist if I was part of their religion. Go ahead ask them.

I swear, I'm speaking of the theory of gods. People thought of gods before the bible was written. It was not bible then the idea.

I have said before the theory should change as we grow more knowledgeable. We have to apply new knowledge to what we think about God, like the age of the planet. Well at least that's how I approach the idea. Oh yea Christians don't do that do they? Guess I'm not a Christian then. I could list a hundred things about me that's not Christian and just because I like not worship the loving instructions of Jesus you want to put a Christian stamp on my head and call it a day. Not going to happen.

It is downright childish of any of you to continue this insistence of Christianity. That religion hates me. They condemn me to hell right above you. At least you're not an abomination!!! I would rather be called a whore,slut, scalawag, or an idiot than be put in that box. You are disregarding a lot of Christian tradition to call me one.

It's over I am not a Christian. You can say I am 1001 times and you'd be wrong 1001 times.

I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN

Hey, Junebug,

I'm generally willing to go with whatever someone chooses to identify themselves as. Your world view has elements of Christianity, and elements of not-so-much, so it's all the same to me, really, what you want to call it. For what it's worth, I have a lot more problems with apologists who twist the words and meanings in the Bible to fit (if it can even be called fitting) all the clear contradictions both within itself and the way it fails to match up to the world around them than I do with those who try to think for themselves, even though they cannot bring themselves to give up on the supernatural.

Anyway, that's not really my point here. Your post just made me think of my brother-in-law, who I've been thinking of starting a thread about. He's been a nondenominational, though definitely Christian minister for the past 15 years or so, and is one of the strongest people I know as far as what he is willing to put himself through, even though he has osteogenesis imperfecta (brittle bone disease), and many physical limitations because of it. In the last year or so, he has come out as gay, at the age of 43, and lost his job, and most of his Christian friends because of it, on top of which, he has suffered from clinical depression on and off for years, and this has put him in a really suicidal frame of mind in recent months. We, his family, and those friends he still has, have constantly been trying to talk him off the proverbial ledge, and he has lost other friends as a result of his wild mood swings (he is on medication, but it evidently has not quite been effective). I have a hard time understanding how he could keep his faith in the face of all this, especially given the Christian belief that god has a plan and will not give you any hardship you cannot handle, which, to me, flies in the face of suicidal thoughts and plans. Yet he will not budge in his Christianity. He is not, and has never been, in a romantic relationship, but during his more positive moments, he holds out hope for finding someone to share his life with. He, as many other Christians have done, has managed to reconcile his homosexuality with his faith.

And I think that's where people get tripped up with you as well, Junebug. Even though you don't consider yourself Christian, there are enough hold-overs from your having been brought up that way that other than the name, there's not a whole lot of difference between your beliefs and those of some people who have amended their world view to incorporate any number of things which are not necessarily Biblical, but who still hold fast to the label of "Christianity".

Not that any of this is particularly relevant to this thread. I think I'm just venting a bit. Does anyone think this (the part about my BIL) topic deserves a thread of its own, or can it stay here to gain maybe a response or two then fizzle out?

edited to add: yeah, this all pretty much goes along with what The Gawd just posted while I was typing, too.

I have said before the theory should change as we grow more knowledgeable. We have to apply new knowledge to what we think about God, like the age of the planet. Well at least that's how I approach the idea. Oh yea Christians don't do that do they? Guess I'm not a Christian then.

Junebug72, I think you are being honest about this.

I get that you like some aspects of the Jesus story. I like some aspects of the Robin Hood story. So I can relate.

I get that you like some aspects of having a deity to follow and a chance at an eternal life where everything is perfect. I went through exactly the same. So I can relate.

I'm glad we agree on some things - the Bible, BibleGod, and Christianity. That's a lot of common ground

As far as ID only coming from the bible; you're article does suggest that. Only it makes more sense to me that ID came before the bible. Someone had the idea before writing it down.

So someone had the idea that there was an intelligent designer who created the universe billions of years ago and set things into motion only giving it a nudge here and there to have it develop how it wants the universe to develop. Eventually that person wrote down the idea. But there's a bit of a problem. No one knew that the universe was billions of years old before the Bible was written so, no, ID did not come before the Bible.[1]

Deciding in your own mind that ID was thought up several thousand years before it was really imagined is one of those things you should not believe. And if you do anyways then it is something you should NOT be telling to anyone, ever. For comparison, think about how you'd react to someone saying there were Scientologists around when the Jews were in Egypt. Or that Mormons helped build the ark. That is the area you've drifted into when you say ID came before the Bible. No one had the idea and then waited 5700 years to write it down.

You say you don't begrudge me of my Loving Creator but yet feel the need to "reason" with me.

Yes, because you say many things which make you sound like a christian yet you bitterly complain when people refer to you in what has always been an appropriate manner with everyone else who talks about Jesus and ID. So I tried (and failed) to reason with you about your terminology to help you have fewer problems about whether or not people refer to you as a christian.

Hindu cosmology has some interesting and huge numbers in their beliefs but they do not match the facts.

I call the Intelligent Designer God. When I say that the idea has been around longer than the bible, it is gods I was speaking of.

What are these "many" things I've said that are the sole possession of Christianity?

To simply say I am not a Christian should suffice. That clears it up pretty good. I live by ancient Toltec knowledge; not Christian. All I have done is give you my take on the story of Jesus and y'all have somehow twisted it up to mean more than it means.

I'm not going to play along anymore. Best I can tell you all agree that the bible is not the words of any god. My goal is to debate with someone who does not agree with the OT.

Thanks y'all but I prefer my Toltec philosophy. I have found it much simpler to accomplish. Christianity is way too complicated. Jdawg I've said time and time again I don't believe in the myth of Jesus as you are suggesting. I only think his existence as a man is likely. I question his demi god status due to the fact that I only see the bible as the work of man. I think the whole idea of church is against what Jesus taught so if I was a Christian I'd be working on shutting it down not supporting it. But I'm not nor will I ever be.

Jynnan,

I'm sorry to hear about your BIL's struggles. I wish I could talk to him. I've been down this road and it's not easy. It's a form of codependency. His whole self esteem was enveloped by his Christianity. Toltec philosophy teaches you to obtain your sense of self without the need for outside assistance whether it be faith, money, looks, etc...

He needs to know that even though Christians have turned him away that God still Loves him just the way he is. In your case "if" there is a god. IMO.

If you do decide to start a thread I would suggest putting it under personal help support and advice.

People just have to use labels. I'm a lot more not christian than I am similar to christian so I'm just not a christian. I am spiritual.

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Hope this day finds you doing well... prepare yourself so you can be a rainbow in somebody else's cloud. Somebody who may not look like you. May not call God the same name you call God - if they call God at all. I may not dance your dances or speak your language. But be a blessing to somebody. Maya

I'm sorry to hear about your BIL's struggles. I wish I could talk to him. I've been down this road and it's not easy. It's a form of codependency. His whole self esteem was enveloped by his Christianity. Toltec philosophy teaches you to obtain your sense of self without the need for outside assistance whether it be faith, money, looks, etc...

You say to obtain your self sense of self without outside assistance (a crutch), then you say:

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He needs to know that even though Christians have turned him away that God still Loves him just the way he is. In your case "if" there is a god. IMO.

youre back to the crutch. He should find his sense of self. Period. No crutches needed.

Let me just say this. Christians do not consider me Christian. I think they would know better than an atheist if I was part of their religion. Go ahead ask them.

All Christians, really? You polled them all? Of course not. You're talking about specific Christians and each and every sect do not believe that any other sect but theirs are Christian.

It means nothing. It's irrelevant.

If you believe in Jesus Christ, then you're a follower of Christ and therefore a Christian. Whether you think you are or they think you are or not is irrelevant.

That's what a Christian is: a follower of Jesus and his teachings.

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Oh yea Christians don't do that do they? Guess I'm not a Christian then.

38,000+ different sects? Did you consult with each one to see if none of them think that way? Of course not but doesn't matter, it's irrelevant: a Christian is a person who follows Jesus and his teachings. If you believe in Jesus, and follow his teachings, then you're a Christian. How difficult is this to understand?

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I could list a hundred things about me that's not Christian and just because I like not worship the loving instructions of Jesus you want to put a Christian stamp on my head and call it a day. Not going to happen.

You can do and say whatever the hell you want. Doesn't make it true.

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It is downright childish of any of you to continue this insistence of Christianity. That religion hates me.

How does an inanimate object "hate"?

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They condemn me to hell right above you. At least you're not an abomination!!! I would rather be called a whore,slut, scalawag, or an idiot than be put in that box. You are disregarding a lot of Christian tradition to call me one.

According to the Bible, minus a few "special people", everyone, including Christians are bound for hell.

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It's over I am not a Christian.

Wrong.

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You can say I am 1001 times and you'd be wrong 1001 times.

Same to you.

I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN I AM NOT A CHRISTIANYES YOU ARE YES YOU ARE YES YOU ARE YES YOU ARE-Nam

I'm sorry to hear about your BIL's struggles. I wish I could talk to him. I've been down this road and it's not easy. It's a form of codependency. His whole self esteem was enveloped by his Christianity. Toltec philosophy teaches you to obtain your sense of self without the need for outside assistance whether it be faith, money, looks, etc...

You say to obtain your self sense of self without outside assistance (a crutch), then you say:

Quote

He needs to know that even though Christians have turned him away that God still Loves him just the way he is. In your case "if" there is a god. IMO.

youre back to the crutch. He should find his sense of self. Period. No crutches needed.

We are talking about someone who is ready to die w/o his faith companions. His sense of self seems to be defined as a spiritual man. He can come through this with his faith in a Loving God reassured his soul can have peace. You DO NOT have to be a christian to Love and Respect God. It's inevitably up to him what will calm his soul, I have no doubt it's reassurance of God's love. I would hate for him to think the past 15 years of his life were for naught. I will propose that it has led him to this moment and he can give up his fight or quit feeling sorry for his self and fight back. Don't let the Christians monopolize God.

The only way to get rid of pesky religions is to show them God loves all and you can't do that if you claim God doesn't exist. All that does is fuel the fire, gives them the sense of self righteousness.

I think it dishonorable to try and change a man's belief while he's so obviously vulnerable. I think it's better to use his belief to give him "will", strength, to fight back.

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Hope this day finds you doing well... prepare yourself so you can be a rainbow in somebody else's cloud. Somebody who may not look like you. May not call God the same name you call God - if they call God at all. I may not dance your dances or speak your language. But be a blessing to somebody. Maya

Nam this has become harassment. Stop it now or I'm going to report you. My word is solid as a rock. I have no diabolical plot to hide being a Christian. It is pure slander for you to continue insisting I'm something I'm adamantly against. You can appreciate the story of Jesus w/o being christian. It's not complicated.

I really wish you'd give up this grudge you have against me. I have treated all your hateful and insulting post with kindness and humility. What more do you want from me?

Here's some advice, if your goal is to see how much I will take before I go off you will have to be a lot more cruel than you have been already.

Call me whatever names you like it just makes you the bully. Sticks and stones...

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Hope this day finds you doing well... prepare yourself so you can be a rainbow in somebody else's cloud. Somebody who may not look like you. May not call God the same name you call God - if they call God at all. I may not dance your dances or speak your language. But be a blessing to somebody. Maya

Nam this has become harassment. Stop it now or I'm going to report you. My word is solid as a rock. I have no diabolical plot to hide being a Christian. It is pure slander for you to continue insisting I'm something I'm adamantly against. You can appreciate the story of Jesus w/o being christian. It's not complicated.

I'm replying to your comments. How's that harassment? You smiting people because you perceive them as calling you a liar (and you've done it a lot to quite a few people on here) I think falls under the realm of harassment, and abuse of the karma system. But that's just my opinion.

Appreciate? You do more than appreciate. Your comments prove that.

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I really wish you'd give up this grudge you have against me.

What grudge? There's no grudge. Stop saying stupid things and you'll stop getting replies that point them out.

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I have treated all your hateful and insulting post with kindness and humility.

Bullshit.

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What more do you want from me?

Stop referring to everyone as a liar when they contradict or have a differing opinion to your own. Stop saying stupid things. Stop smiting everyone for inane things (smiting me for calling you an idiot wasn't inane; but most of your smites to me and others have been) and admit when you are wrong.

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Here's some advice, if your goal is to see how much I will take before I go off you will have to be a lot more cruel than you have been already.

The most I've done is contradict you, and called you an idiot once or twice. Trust: this is the nice me.

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Call me whatever names you like it just makes you the bully. Sticks and stones...

Nam I know what I am and what I'm not. No you've done more than call me an idiot. What was that comment that got you put on the watched list? It was nasty. I won't repeat it.

It's harassment. I'm not a Christian.

What comments prove that? I only talk about Jesus when one of you guys ask me about it. Usually when you're trying to prove I'm christian; for whatever reason you find it important to do so.

You really need to broaden your view of the world. There are many kinds of people out there, some very unique.

If it's really too much for you to see me any other way go ahead and call me whatever makes it easy for you. Leave your mind narrow.

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Hope this day finds you doing well... prepare yourself so you can be a rainbow in somebody else's cloud. Somebody who may not look like you. May not call God the same name you call God - if they call God at all. I may not dance your dances or speak your language. But be a blessing to somebody. Maya

Thanks y'all but I prefer my Toltec philosophy. I have found it much simpler to accomplish. Christianity is way too complicated. Jdawg I've said time and time again I don't believe in the myth of Jesus as you are suggesting. I only think his existence as a man is likely. I question his demi god status due to the fact that I only see the bible as the work of man. I think the whole idea of church is against what Jesus taught so if I was a Christian I'd be working on shutting it down not supporting it. But I'm not nor will I ever be.

What part of my last summation suggested that you believe the mythical parts of the Jesus story as outlined in the bible?

I'd also be curious as to your reasons for why you think the existence of Jesus the man is likely. I'd be curious to know where you get the things that this Jesus individual taught.

I'm trying to understand what your beliefs are, junebug. I tried to lay out my perspective on your beliefs with that that summation. Perhaps if you clarified what it is I'm mistaken about, I could get a better understanding.

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"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

Nam I know what I am and what I'm not. No you've done more than call me an idiot. What was that comment that got you put on the watched list? It was nasty. I won't repeat it.

It's harassment. I'm not a Christian.

What comments prove that? I only talk about Jesus when one of you guys ask me about it. Usually when you're trying to prove I'm christian; for whatever reason you find it important to do so.

You really need to broaden your view of the world. There are many kinds of people out there, some very unique.

If it's really too much for you to see me any other way go ahead and call me whatever makes it easy for you. Leave your mind narrow.

I've defined what a Christian is: a follower of Jesus and his teachings. You basically minus out everything in the Bible except Jesus and his teachings. If you consult multitudes of dictionaries there will be one definition quite common in the bulk of them, which is what I state above.

Again: it's irrelevant what other Christians say a Christian (mainly because they only represent their own view: like you), and what you personally believe.

I don't believe in a god or gods. I do not like to label myself as an atheist, I'd rather state nothing but to other people I am an atheist; and I state that I am, at times, based on that perception.

Just like I don't like to be referred to as an atheist is the same as you not like being referred to as a Christian (though you're more vile about it) which in both views: is irrelevant.

Thanks y'all but I prefer my Toltec philosophy. I have found it much simpler to accomplish. Christianity is way too complicated. Jdawg I've said time and time again I don't believe in the myth of Jesus as you are suggesting. I only think his existence as a man is likely. I question his demi god status due to the fact that I only see the bible as the work of man. I think the whole idea of church is against what Jesus taught so if I was a Christian I'd be working on shutting it down not supporting it. But I'm not nor will I ever be.

What part of my last summation suggested that you believe the mythical parts of the Jesus story as outlined in the bible?

I'd also be curious as to your reasons for why you think the existence of Jesus the man is likely. I'd be curious to know where you get the things that this Jesus individual taught.

I'm trying to understand what your beliefs are, junebug. I tried to lay out my perspective on your beliefs with that that summation. Perhaps if you clarified what it is I'm mistaken about, I could get a better understanding.

She makes up her responses as she rewrites it elsewhere (why it takes her so long to respond even while being logged in).

I'm going to try to summarize how I understand some of your beliefs. I think I'm still a little murky, so I'm bound to make some errors here so forgive that.

You take the bible to be an old book that has descriptions that are accurate (perhaps not precise), though it is neither a text of the quality of a history book (contains fantastical stories and untrue elements and events) nor a divinely written or inspired work. You believe that a divine entity 'Jesus' (not really sure about this one; I'm basing this off of your claims of having a current, active relationship with this entity) is, in some way, referenced in this book (either as The Messiah as described, as a character based upon the real 'Jesus' entity, or some other means). The information that you have on Jesus' character (be it concrete information or some 'intuitive' sense of knowing) is not informed by the bible, but rather informed through your life experiences as a whole.

Thanks y'all but I prefer my Toltec philosophy. I have found it much simpler to accomplish. Christianity is way too complicated. Jdawg I've said time and time again I don't believe in the myth of Jesus as you are suggesting. I only think his existence as a man is likely. I question his demi god status due to the fact that I only see the bible as the work of man. I think the whole idea of church is against what Jesus taught so if I was a Christian I'd be working on shutting it down not supporting it. But I'm not nor will I ever be.

What part of my last summation suggested that you believe the mythical parts of the Jesus story as outlined in the bible?

I'd also be curious as to your reasons for why you think the existence of Jesus the man is likely. I'd be curious to know where you get the things that this Jesus individual taught.

I'm trying to understand what your beliefs are, junebug. I tried to lay out my perspective on your beliefs with that that summation. Perhaps if you clarified what it is I'm mistaken about, I could get a better understanding.

That bold statement is not what I believe. I have said it repeatedly to you and Nam and for some reason you can't get that. I do not have a personal relationship with Jesus. I am not a christian. I can certainly believe Jesus was a human that sacrificed his life w/o believing that he was God.

Nam I don't follow Jesus so your conclusion is moot. I have not been vile. You think you can just say anything and it just shows desperation.

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Hope this day finds you doing well... prepare yourself so you can be a rainbow in somebody else's cloud. Somebody who may not look like you. May not call God the same name you call God - if they call God at all. I may not dance your dances or speak your language. But be a blessing to somebody. Maya

That bold statement is not what I believe. I have said it repeatedly to you and Nam and for some reason you can't get that. I do not have a personal relationship with Jesus. I am not a christian. I can certainly believe Jesus was a human that sacrificed his life w/o believing that he was God.

"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

SBNRs are as diverse and complex as any other spiritual cohort. They are here to stay, and their numbers will surely grow as pluralism evolves and access to the world's wisdom becomes even easier. It could be the most important religious development of our time, so let's make sure we understand it.

There is a lot more of this article. If you're really interested in understanding me you will read the whole article.

Jdawg I am not going to do that. Didn't miss it. Every time you start your analysis of me you say I have a personal relationship which I don't so I basically stop there. So that answers Nam's question. I got it from you.

Nam says follower =christian. I am not a follower.

Either way this debate is over. You two think what you want. The facts are right there in front of you. You have the right to your opinions. I have the right to mine.

Take care

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Hope this day finds you doing well... prepare yourself so you can be a rainbow in somebody else's cloud. Somebody who may not look like you. May not call God the same name you call God - if they call God at all. I may not dance your dances or speak your language. But be a blessing to somebody. Maya

SBNRs are as diverse and complex as any other spiritual cohort. They are here to stay, and their numbers will surely grow as pluralism evolves and access to the world's wisdom becomes even easier. It could be the most important religious development of our time, so let's make sure we understand it.

There is a lot more of this article. If you're really interested in understanding me you will read the whole article.

Jdawg I am not going to do that. Didn't miss it. Every time you start your analysis of me you say I have a personal relationship which I don't so I basically stop there. So that answers Nam's question. I got it from you.

Nam says follower =christian. I am not a follower.

Either way this debate is over. You two think what you want. The facts are right there in front of you. You have the right to your opinions. I have the right to mine.

Take care

Spirituality is on the rise. Many mainstream religious groups are shrinking.