I say Cap. Utility belt really isn't a deciding factor as Cap has fought both heroes and vilains with various clever weapons and paraphanallea who routinely fight dirty. His mind is enhanced by the serum as well as his body, so Physically, he outclasses Batman and strategically, Bats himself opted for Cap to lead the combined justice league and avengers team for the Marvel/DC- Avengers/JLA crossover (in continuity) stating, 'he's the best man for the job'.
Cap would have the best probability of winning. But it would truly be an epic battle.

__________________"On Olympus, we measure wisdom against Athena...speed against Hermes...power against Zeus. But we measure courage...against Captain America."

I think batman was smart enough to put someone else in charge other than himself. He's a master strategist in that respect... I'm sure there was some angle he was playing up. In the least, he can learn Rogers' weaknesses. Frankly, I didn't hesitate when I saw the poll... It was Batman first in my mind because hey, he beat Superman... and I don't think there's any way Cap could take on Superman and win.

Hey, I don't think Bats could take on Superman and win, myself, and yet....he does. I'm sure if Cap did live in the DCU, he would be taking Supes out on occasion too. And there really was no angle. Batman conceeded that Cap could beat him after a long battle, after measuring eachother up and testing eachothers reactions.

__________________"On Olympus, we measure wisdom against Athena...speed against Hermes...power against Zeus. But we measure courage...against Captain America."

Batman didn't beat Superman in a fight. I don't know why people even bring that up. Drop them both in a room with no kryptonite and Batman would be tore in half in about .5 seconds.

It happened in both of Frank Miller's Dark Knight books. Of course Batman can't beat Superman in a simple 1 on 1 fight... It's impossible. He has to beat him in other ways. Nevertheless, he did beat him.

And didnt Batman and Captain America fight and both "won"... a tie I think it was

It happened in both of Frank Miller's Dark Knight books. Of course Batman can't beat Superman in a simple 1 on 1 fight... It's impossible. He has to beat him in other ways. Nevertheless, he did beat him.

And didnt Batman and Captain America fight and both "won"... a tie I think it was

Yea, but what part of "who would win in a FIGHT" Isn't clear?

They fought to a standstill using only their martial arts and fighting skill. If Cap is equal to him in fighting skill (which he is) then Bats is screwed. The super soldier serum gives Cap to much of an edge.

The OP is talking about a fight. Not a popularity contest or a game of cat and mouse though an urban landscape.

I clearly said Batman could outsmart them and out think them under certain conditions. He could even ambush Cap and defeat him, especially given enough prep time.

In a straight up fight (the subject of the thread) he is toast though.

Count me as personally not buying Bats EVER beating Superman without Kryptonite either. I don't care what the writers put in there. Its a classic case of Bats being overplayed because of how popular he is. Fact is though, there are many guys that could beat Supes with a bunch of Kryptonite. So thats not even relevant to me.

I'm not taking anything away from Batman. There are just certain power levels the characters have that are not related to popularity. Some are just outclassed by others in power level. In a straight up fight, some guys are screwed against others.

The Punisher is just in trouble if he's having to fight Wonder Woman. Just how it is.

And didnt Batman and Captain America fight and both "won"... a tie I think it was

if you are referring to that ATROCIOUS Marvel VS DC crossover (led to that god-awful amalgam comics line) that happened a couple of years, back.... I wouldn't hold the outcomes of those fights as having any sort of veracity. Most of those were based on fan votes, I mean, they had superman-strength-class Lobo get taken out by Wolverine in a bar fight. And this was at a time when Logan did not have adamantium laced claws. Also, Spiderman took out Superboy, which boggled my mind, because I was under the assumption that Superboy was no slouch in the strength and power department. I also remember reading somewhere that DC would only agree to going ahead with the publishing of the series, if Superman and Batman won their respective bouts.

And Batman defeating superman is fine and dandy, but Kryptonite gloves and ring would just be odd fashion accessory in a fight against Cap.

I'm not hating on the Batman. Much respect to the Character. But in a best of 5 match, I see 3 of those going to Cap. Both characters routinely plan and prep to go up against and overcome enemies much more powerful than they are. Let's not forget that in WW2, MasterMan was large, invulnerable, flying man that Rogers had to deal with.

__________________"On Olympus, we measure wisdom against Athena...speed against Hermes...power against Zeus. But we measure courage...against Captain America."

It happened in both of Frank Miller's Dark Knight books. Of course Batman can't beat Superman in a simple 1 on 1 fight... It's impossible. He has to beat him in other ways. Nevertheless, he did beat him.

And didnt Batman and Captain America fight and both "won"... a tie I think it was

Do you really consider it Batman winning when he fakes a heart attack and Superman as a friend LETS him live? If Superman had 0 respect for Batman, he wouldn't have given Batman a fight, but just eye beamed him from space or called the Goverment to just take care of Batman.

TDKSA is a different story, but thats Green Arrow, Atom and other heroes just attacking Superman with Bruce delivering the final punches, yet he shouldn't deserve the whole credit.

Now regarding Batman vs. Steve? Captain America all the way. Steve doesn't have any weaknesses, but he has something Batman doesn't: he doesn't get tired. They're both stragetic minded geniuses, they both excel in hand to hand combat, but Steve is faster, stronger and Batman lacks the stamina to last long enough before tiring out from Cap's ruthless attacks.

__________________"I'm not always hooked on a feeling but when i am, i'm high on believing!"Thoughts & Rambles

If each has their weapons, then I'd say Batman most of the time. Batman has smoke and gas grenades (and a gas mask), small explosives, Batarangs, and a grapnel gun. Captain America has...a shield. Granted, an indestructible shield that he can use as a frisbee, but still a shield. Sure the standard batarang isn't very useful in this fight, but if Batman uses flash-bang, smoke, or sedative gas grenades, then Cap is disoriented and at a severe disadvantage, while Batman will be fine. His grapnel gun also provides Batman with far superior mobility to Captain America. Batman will probably know about Captain America's shield-throwing tactic, so he'll be prepared to dodge it, and I doubt that Batman will fall for the whole "hits him in the back of the head on return" trick.
On the other hand, if Captain America can keep his defense up with his shield, then the shield is much more useful for hand to hand combat than most of Batman's weapons. Batman has better body armor than Captain America, but Cap's shield more than makes up for the difference. However, the shield can only protect one side of the body, so if Batman can get around Captain America before he can react, then Bats should be able to get a few blows in.
Combine this together, and Batman is best advised to use a hit-and-run strategy, while Captain America will do best if he can keep close in with Batman.

Without weapons, it's a tough call. They're equal to each other, and they are both the top fighter of their respective universe, and the best tactician who serve as such for their universe's respective main superhero teams (the Justice League and Avengers/Ultimates, respectively). I'd say the deciding factor is the scenario and luck. Who has the environment advantage, and who gets the first blow, and who gets the best opportunities to strike where, and so on. It's an even match.

Thoughts on my analysis?

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Originally Posted by Enriquespy

Welll its kinda like a ninja vesus a samurai Isn't it? I'd say Batman, just because I like him better. :P

I think you forgot about Batman being the top fighter and tactician in the DC Universe. In that regard, he is pretty much equivalent to Captain America, but with billions of dollars as well. Your analogy doesn't work.

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Originally Posted by Duke

In terms of sheer strenght & ability i'd probably have to say Captain America due to the serum. Batman does have an edge on him on gadgets, vehicles, & cunning.

I don't think Captain America is superhuman. I know he lost the Super Soldier Serum once, and kept up his athletic build through training.
Vehicles aren't relevant because Batman's not going to run over Captain America.

Good thing Captain America isn't effected by that crap, he stopped having sick days thanks to the Super soldier serum.

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Captain America has...a shield. Granted, an indestructible shield that he can use as a frisbee, but still a shield.

The shield is faster than Batarangs and can cut thru the grapple gun, it's much more than a mere shield.

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Sure the standard batarang isn't very useful in this fight, but if Batman uses flash-bang, smoke, or sedative gas grenades, then Cap is disoriented and at a severe disadvantage,

Nah when Batman is wasting his seconds throwing stuff, Cap already knows where Batman is positioned and throws his shield and rushes towards Bats, giving him a good knuckle sandwhich and knocking him down.

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His grapnel gun also provides Batman with far superior mobility to Captain America.

Not with Steve cutting the rope.

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Batman will probably know about Captain America's shield-throwing tactic, so he'll be prepared to dodge it,

How can Batman dodge both the Captain America and the shield? He isn't super fast and Captain America has the edge on him.

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Batman has better body armor than Captain America

Woah woah woah, where does this assumption come from?

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Combine this together, and Batman is best advised to use a hit-and-run strategy, while Captain America will do best if he can keep close in with Batman.

Man with Cap's speed and the shield, it's all about Batman trying to beg for mercy more like it. Captain America can keep it all night long wheres Batman is a mere mortal who will be worn out. Cap only needs a few hours a sleep per week, thats how powerful the super soldier serum is.

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Without weapons, it's a tough call. They're equal to each other, and they are both the top fighter of their respective universe, and the best tactician who serve as such for their universe's respective main superhero teams (the Justice League and Avengers/Ultimates, respectively). I'd say the deciding factor is the scenario and luck. Who has the environment advantage, and who gets the first blow, and who gets the best opportunities to strike where, and so on. It's an even match.

Are you seriously implying that Batman can out endure Captain America?

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Thoughts on my analysis?

Bias towards Bats. >: (

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I don't think Captain America is superhuman.

He is. Ultimate Captain America is even more powerful considering the super soldier serum there also enchances his brain activity so he's like a super computer and learns everything in a few seconds.

__________________"I'm not always hooked on a feeling but when i am, i'm high on believing!"Thoughts & Rambles

Good thing Captain America isn't effected by that crap, he stopped having sick days thanks to the Super soldier serum.

I have no evidence of Captain America having that ability. He still can't see through smoke.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drz

The shield is faster than Batarangs and can cut thru the grapple gun, it's much more than a mere shield.

Where do you get the shield being faster than Batarangs? Both are thrown with the same force (Batman and Captain America have equivalent strength), and the Batarang is smaller so it will move much faster than Captain America's shield. It's simple physics.
The edge of the shield is blunt, or else Captain America would cut himself on it, and throwing it a person's head would be a lethal option, which it is not depicted as in the comics. So it's not going to cut through the grapnel line.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drz

Nah when Batman is wasting his seconds throwing stuff, Cap already knows where Batman is positioned and throws his shield and rushes towards Bats, giving him a good knuckle sandwhich and knocking him down.

Batman's not that easy to beat. He would just get back up. Plus, when Cap throws the shield, he can't use it to defend himself, providing Batman with a small window of opportunity to punch him in the face. Besides, assuming the shield flies in a circle like a boomerang, if he throws it and then rushes Batman, he's not going to catch it on its return trip. It would land away from him, extending Batman's opportunity to attack him. Hell, he could just attach sonic devices to Cap's ears which would hurt like hell and distract him enough for Batman to knock him out.

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Originally Posted by Drz

Not with Steve cutting the rope.

See debunking above.

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Originally Posted by Drz

How can Batman dodge both the Captain America and the shield? He isn't super fast and Captain America has the edge on him.

He doesn't need to be. The shield can miss (it's not as though it's laser-guided or something), and he would be aware that Captain America may use that tactic. Captain America doesn't have the edge on him.

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Originally Posted by Drz

Woah woah woah, where does this assumption come from?

Batman has kevlar. Captain America (far as I know) has ...some chain mail. Great for stopping arrows, but he's fighting Batman, not Green Arrow or Hawkeye.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drz

Man with Cap's speed and the shield, it's all about Batman trying to beg for mercy more like it. Captain America can keep it all night long wheres Batman is a mere mortal who will be worn out. Cap only needs a few hours a sleep per week, thats how powerful the super soldier serum is.

********. Captain America is only mortal as well. He's not superhuman (most of the time), only peak human conditioning, in terms of strength and speed. He's no stronger or faster than Batman, he just can keep it up longer. If Batman knocks Captain America out quickly, then it doesn't matter how much more endurance Captain America has.

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Originally Posted by Drz

Are you seriously implying that Batman can out endure Captain America?

No. I never said that. Tiring a person out is different from knocking them out.

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Originally Posted by Drz

Bias towards Bats. >: (

Bias toward Captain America.

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Originally Posted by Drz

He is. Ultimate Captain America is even more powerful considering the super soldier serum there also enchances his brain activity so he's like a super computer and learns everything in a few seconds.

I am not talking about Ultimate Captain America. Just the 616 Captain America.

I have no evidence of Captain America having that ability. He still can't see through smoke.

Where do you get the shield being faster than Batarangs? Both are thrown with the same force (Batman and Captain America have equivalent strength), and the Batarang is smaller so it will move much faster than Captain America's shield. It's simple physics.
The edge of the shield is blunt, or else Captain America would cut himself on it, and throwing it a person's head would be a lethal option, which it is not depicted as in the comics. So it's not going to cut through the grapnel line.

Batman's not that easy to beat. He would just get back up. Plus, when Cap throws the shield, he can't use it to defend himself, providing Batman with a small window of opportunity to punch him in the face. Besides, assuming the shield flies in a circle like a boomerang, if he throws it and then rushes Batman, he's not going to catch it on its return trip. It would land away from him, extending Batman's opportunity to attack him. Hell, he could just attach sonic devices to Cap's ears which would hurt like hell and distract him enough for Batman to knock him out.

See debunking above.

He doesn't need to be. The shield can miss (it's not as though it's laser-guided or something), and he would be aware that Captain America may use that tactic. Captain America doesn't have the edge on him.

Batman has kevlar. Captain America (far as I know) has ...some chain mail. Great for stopping arrows, but he's fighting Batman, not Green Arrow or Hawkeye.

********. Captain America is only mortal as well. He's not superhuman (most of the time), only peak human conditioning, in terms of strength and speed. He's no stronger or faster than Batman, he just can keep it up longer. If Batman knocks Captain America out quickly, then it doesn't matter how much more endurance Captain America has.

No. I never said that. Tiring a person out is different from knocking them out.

Bias toward Captain America.

I am not talking about Ultimate Captain America. Just the 616 Captain America.

In terms of physicallity, tho, 616 Cap is superior to the Batman. Just do some research on what the effects of the super soldier serum are. Bruce trained himself to the max of what he's capable of and retain his agility and strength. (which is impressive), but Rogers the maximum of HUMAN efficiency. Really, Bats could never hope to achieve what Cap is in biology naturally.
Again, respect to Bats and his gadgets, but Cap routinely fights brilliant minds with gadgets who fight dirty and in a lot of cases majorly out power him, so I give most of the bouts to Rogers. In a best of 5, I'll say 3 to 2 in Caps favor.

__________________"On Olympus, we measure wisdom against Athena...speed against Hermes...power against Zeus. But we measure courage...against Captain America."