bhaw wrote:You don't like the "if you don't like it, don't buy it" argument because it's simple and straight forward. By discounting that argument, all you are saying is that you want to complain and hang it on "principals." If you had your own principals, you would stop buying your tickets and watch from home. Clearly the price hikes are merely a mild annoyance at this point, and not a true point of disgust as you (general you to those saying it) claim.

FYI, I'm not a kid... I can easily say that you are a "kid" because instead of facing reality, all you want to do is belabor on about "principals" that aren't really principals. If my cable company hiked up my monthly bill 30%, and I thought it was that big of an issue, I'd cancel. If I just want to complain that it should be cheaper, it's just that... complaining.

But please, continue to discount the most logical argument because you can't respond to it and call everyone "kids" instead. That is the equivalent of "you never played hockey, so you can't possibly understand" retort.

It seriously reminds me of people that just constantly complain about their job every single day. Then when you tell them "you don't have to work here," their only response is "I have to work somewhere and this place is run by idiots."

Well, yes... you probably need to work somewhere (assuming you aren't independently wealthy), but you most certainly don't have to work there. Problem is you are complaining just to complain, and the issues aren't big enough to motivate you to get up and start looking for a new job.

Same application... if it was truly disgusting, you would invest your entertainment dollars elsewhere.

bhaw wrote:You don't like the "if you don't like it, don't buy it" argument because it's simple and straight forward. By discounting that argument, all you are saying is that you want to complain and hang it on "principals." If you had your own principals, you would stop buying your tickets and watch from home. Clearly the price hikes are merely a mild annoyance at this point, and not a true point of disgust as you (general you to those saying it) claim.

FYI, I'm not a kid... I can easily say that you are a "kid" because instead of facing reality, all you want to do is belabor on about "principals" that aren't really principals. If my cable company hiked up my monthly bill 30%, and I thought it was that big of an issue, I'd cancel. If I just want to complain that it should be cheaper, it's just that... complaining.

But please, continue to discount the most logical argument because you can't respond to it and call everyone "kids" instead. That is the equivalent of "you never played hockey, so you can't possibly understand" retort.

It would not involve principles if the Pens didn't totally kiss the ass of their fans, take their tax money to build them a new facility for their business, then raise the cost of their product by 40% when the getting is good.

You "kids" can spin this any way you want. Pens have a right to charge what they want. I have a right to say no thank you.

Doesn't change the fact that what they did was BALLSY!! Now, I might be complaining in your eyes, but I'm stating facts and backing those facts up..

MRandall25 wrote:THEN DON'T BUY THE EFFING TICKETS IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT!!

Jeez. You have a right to say "No thanks". Why aren't you doing it instead of complaining all the time?

This is a board for discussion. Whether it be praise, complaint, humor, etc.

But you aren't discussing. No one has a clue what you are even talking about really. If we say "Don't buy tickets" you go off on some rant about how its not about money. I have followed this thread and I still have no clue what you are talking about. The Pens raised ticket prices because people will still buy them. Its that simple. Its not ballsy or whatever else, its business. You set your prices low to start, then work your way until you find the point where you maximize your profit without damaging your fan base. Just because the Pens don't win the cup every year doesn't mean they don't put on a helluva show to get there.

But I honestly don't get the point of the thread either based on the title.

If Season ticket holders are that against a ticket price increase, they have the option to decline their season tickets right? No one is putting a gun to their heads telling them they have no choice but to renew.

If you are that against a price increase, and that is your right to be against, then just give up your season tickets. Not really a difficult concept if you ask me.

knives of ice wrote:i really don't care about the tshirts at all, i've never worn the free shirt anyways but they always got sponsors for the shirts in the past that helped pay for them. really, how much of the $20 do you think is going to charity for the white out shirts that cost less than $2 each each to print? i'd bet maybe 10% actually goes to charity and i hope i'm wrong on that.

if ANYONE doesn't want their tickets for next year please PM me as i have people looking for full and half seasons if you wan to take a year off.

I have a full season in 223. If you want 1/2, I'll meet you in the middle between my price and gate price next season.

If you think that then you have not read what I wrote and are just commenting now. Its not even close to even a real complaint. That was very clearly stated as an example of the Pens clearly just saving money in a classless way. The reason it keeps coming up is people keep trying to defend the Pens around every corner with poor reasoning on something even as obvious as this.

bhaw wrote:You don't like the "if you don't like it, don't buy it" argument because it's simple and straight forward. By discounting that argument, all you are saying is that you want to complain and hang it on "principals." If you had your own principals, you would stop buying your tickets and watch from home. Clearly the price hikes are merely a mild annoyance at this point, and not a true point of disgust as you (general you to those saying it) claim.

FYI, I'm not a kid... I can easily say that you are a "kid" because instead of facing reality, all you want to do is belabor on about "principals" that aren't really principals. If my cable company hiked up my monthly bill 30%, and I thought it was that big of an issue, I'd cancel. If I just want to complain that it should be cheaper, it's just that... complaining.

But please, continue to discount the most logical argument because you can't respond to it and call everyone "kids" instead. That is the equivalent of "you never played hockey, so you can't possibly understand" retort.

It seriously reminds me of people that just constantly complain about their job every single day. Then when you tell them "you don't have to work here," their only response is "I have to work somewhere and this place is run by idiots."

Well, yes... you probably need to work somewhere (assuming you aren't independently wealthy), but you most certainly don't have to work there. Problem is you are complaining just to complain, and the issues aren't big enough to motivate you to get up and start looking for a new job.

Same application... if it was truly disgusting, you would invest your entertainment dollars elsewhere.

You guys just are not understanding and are not reading fully what was wrote. It has nothing to do with being a fan as much as it has to do as what I consider poor business and OBVIOUSLY the running off of enough fans to make me worry long term about returning to the days of the very cheap tickets and crappy teams.

My points are valid. - Too many student rushers when they were selling out just fine last year. If they lose about $100 average on the regular price, and at the beginning year of the were putting at least 1,500 - 2,000 students in there for multiple games. Or the averaged about 500 per game - do the math. They claim half of the that and I remember the days when student tickets were tough to get now everyone gets them. 300 x 100 x 41 is lot of freaking money. Add in a few games of 2,000 students and that my friends is probably the same as the 30% increase for the playoffs.

- my points have been they made bad mistakes and are gauging us to make up for him, which I dont understand how people can think that is just me complaining, and its running off many fans as stated in the next facts:

- then you throw the wait list in my face when I (and we) repeatedly have examples of people we know who are way down on the list and still get tickets every year. the wait list is not all that long and is not a sure thing

- they had tons of cancels for the playoffs in a year when the were cup favorites. spare me the "reasons" you come up with as defense of this, just like the white outs, its all bogus. playoff cancels is a horrible sign

- I still cant grasp how anyone on this bored thinks that the pens raising prices 30% in one playoff year isnt something that would absolutely destroy say the Flyers or Rangers or Caps for doing if they read about it online. It would 15 pages of blasting the other owners and talking about how lucky we are.

If you think that then you have not read what I wrote and are just commenting now. Its not even close to even a real complaint. That was very clearly stated as an example of the Pens clearly just saving money in a classless way. The reason it keeps coming up is people keep trying to defend the Pens around every corner with poor reasoning on something even as obvious as this.

You still never answer the question, why don't you just give up your tickets? According to you there should be a huge flux of cheap ass tickets everywhere this season so just purchase them on a game by game basis and you'll come out ahead.

If you think that then you have not read what I wrote and are just commenting now. Its not even close to even a real complaint. That was very clearly stated as an example of the Pens clearly just saving money in a classless way. The reason it keeps coming up is people keep trying to defend the Pens around every corner with poor reasoning on something even as obvious as this.

You still never answer the question, why don't you just give up your tickets? According to you there should be a huge flux of cheap ass tickets everywhere this season so just purchase them on a game by game basis and you'll come out ahead.

To answer both above this year will most likely be my last as a ticket holder. I have been a season ticket holder since 2003, huge fan my entire life, and a huge defender of their prices up until the 2nd year in the new arena. its not the total money of pocket in that sense but it is getting to the point where it is just not worth it anymore.

Also, I cant answer the supply and demand question anymore. its not like it was 3 years ago, not even close, and everyone who doesnt go to 20 - 40 games plus playoffs has no idea about it and is clueless. Everyone thinks Pens season tickets are just so replaceable and I explained at length why this is simply not true. Which in a round about way is mostly my concern moving forward as a fan. There was a steep drop off in the playoffs, people attending meetings with Pens brass have confirmed they are not selling out at gate price (imagine they are not selling out at regular price yet raise season holders prices), people way down on the wait list get tickets every year.

Not sure I understand why everyone thinks its still this supply and demand business as it was before when its not. Or even close.

You realize that a good portion of the people on the wait list are on it for upper level tickets/prices right? It's been like that since the waitlist started..... that's why people way down the list get called.

If I was on the waitlist i'd pass on anything that wasn't upper level.

czwalga wrote:You realize that a good portion of the people on the wait list are on it for upper level tickets/prices right? It's been like that since the waitlist started..... that's why people way down the list get called.

If I was on the waitlist i'd pass on anything that wasn't upper level.

And you think that is the exact reason why so many people far down on the wait list get tickets? Or is that part of the reason? The wait list is only 4,000 or so deep. And people below 500 are getting offered tickets. Even if what you say is the 100% reason (which its not, a lot of people on the wait list have no intention of buying more than the mini plans) it is still not the supply and demand business that everyone is claiming.

czwalga wrote:You realize that a good portion of the people on the wait list are on it for upper level tickets/prices right? It's been like that since the waitlist started..... that's why people way down the list get called.

If I was on the waitlist i'd pass on anything that wasn't upper level.

And you think that is the exact reason why so many people far down on the wait list get tickets? Or is that part of the reason? The wait list is only 4,000 or so deep. And people below 500 are getting offered tickets. Even if what you say is the 100% reason (which its not, a lot of people on the wait list have no intention of buying more than the mini plans) it is still not the supply and demand business that everyone is claiming.

That's complete BS.

My dad's sitting somewhere around 300 (might be higher, I haven't really checked since the season started). The only thing we've been offered are 6 game packages. That's it.

czwalga wrote:You realize that a good portion of the people on the wait list are on it for upper level tickets/prices right? It's been like that since the waitlist started..... that's why people way down the list get called.

If I was on the waitlist i'd pass on anything that wasn't upper level.

And you think that is the exact reason why so many people far down on the wait list get tickets? Or is that part of the reason? The wait list is only 4,000 or so deep. And people below 500 are getting offered tickets. Even if what you say is the 100% reason (which its not, a lot of people on the wait list have no intention of buying more than the mini plans) it is still not the supply and demand business that everyone is claiming.

If that's happening then the waiting list should be dwindling down to nothing, which it isnt.... Everything you have complained about or used as an argument can be proved wrong when this season starts and there is still a waiting list.

lol I love the hate on student rushers. Its called investing for the long term business. You give the opportunity for students who don't have the money to buy tickets that often an opportunity to get into the game. Your business theory is so short sighted that it deserves criticism. You are only worried about what's best for you and your fellow STH. Well guess what, by you stating you are withdrawing your season tickets is a huge reason why student rush is important. Because every year there are new people joining the workforce who may or may not be capable of affording those tickets you are passing on. But you know, screw long term investing.

As for the mistakes the team has made are what? They are a for profit organization, if they are barely making it into the black then yes the fans must pay more. Simple as that. But gouging? That is the market for a premium hockey team that is consistently selling out. The Pens do not have the TV markets other teams have to make up revenue. Pittsburgh is a smaller market than other teams, thus have to make their money somehow.

I mean you mention the Rangers and Flyers, two of the biggest markets in the US. Bad comparison.

As for the running off of fans, if people still show up to the arena and the sell out streak continues, then its not a problem. In fact, as long as there are fans in the seats there is no problems until there starts to be a slide. In which case, ticket prices will go down. Supply and demand. Free Market price determination.

The cancels were already commented that many businesses do not take the playoff tickets due to the reasons previously stated.

Again, increases can happen if the market continues purchasing. So its not gouging if that is what the market has determined is a fair price. Just saying.

Are you one of the people arguing against the long time ticket holders who are sick of prices increasing? I'm fine with that argument, and i'm find with people who support student rush. It makes no sense to do both however. Not sure how you make an argument for letting supply and demand set the market and yet support the idea of manipulating the supply.