In reply to Cuillin Calling: Asking 'what axe' for a particular grade is like asking 'what shoe' for a particular rock grade. You climb what you can with what you've got. Granted I wouldn't recommend buying a 60cm Raven axe for grade 4 just like I wouldn't recommend a down-turned uber-technical pair of shoes for a scramble but for everything in between, you'll make do with what you've got and if you fail, you will blame the tools - all bad workmen do! Just get better at climbing and you can use whatever axes you want!

In reply to Cuillin Calling:
Grab some new Quarks, or equivalent if that model doesn't feel right for you. Hanging around in the lower-mid grades you don't need fancy handles or wild shaft shapes and are more likely to appreciate the light weight and versatility for more standard alpine-like techniques. Be aware that if you want to use old fashioned-style leash these don't work too well. Your only option is the proprietary clipper/shaft-bolt thing, which is not secure at all for standard alpinism (you can't just drop the tool and let it hang from your wrist without major risk of it unclipping).

For crampons any of the big players will be perfect and other factors such as fit on your boots, binding preference, and materials are just personal choice. G14 style vertical points "feel" more secure in hard ice than G12 style horizontal for weekend bumblies. But they are heavier and clutsier on alpine (walky) stuff. Strap-on front are way more useful for diff types of boots.

In reply to Cuillin Calling:
I think you should definitely consider leashless and I think if you end up converting the Axars you'll still end up buying some tools designed for leashless anyway.

Therefore I'd flog the Axars and get Vipers and go leashless. I own the old quarks (leashless) and much prefer the swing in to ice on the new vipers, plus they are more bombproof than the new quarks (which are having durability issues with the upper grip rest).

> (In reply to Cuillin Calling)
> I think you should definitely consider leashless and I think if you end up converting the Axars you'll still end up buying some tools designed for leashless anyway.
>
> Therefore I'd flog the Axars and get Vipers and go leashless. I own the old quarks (leashless) and much prefer the swing in to ice on the new vipers, plus they are more bombproof than the new quarks (which are having durability issues with the upper grip rest).

When you say 'consider leashless' you mean 'using a clipper leash', don't you?

Okay maybe I should rephrase my original question - I realise you can't specify one type of axe for a particular grade. I was more interested to hear what the pros and cons of some newer axes were before heading to the shops. Particularly thinking about the leashless ones such as Flys, Quarks, Vipers, Cobras. I experimented last year going leashless with a simple double spring leash/lanyard on the Axars. Didn't get on with it too well and resorted to using the leashes again. May have been the fact that the handles of the Axars are not that grippy and need to adapt them with griptape and a hook, or just re-invest as Curlystevo sugests.

+1 its all just so much less of a hassle, with leashes seems some days I spend more time putting my hands in and out of the leashes than doing anything else. Leashless you can switch tools or put a tool on a shoulder or leave one in the rock / ice INSTANTLY, shaking out and placing gear all become simpler too. Its not to do with grade when leashless becomes useful, for me anyway.

You're also not "locked into" high axe placements and hot/cold aches seem much rarer too.

In reply to Cuillin Calling: Go leashless – it took me a while to convert. Just got super pumped on everything, then one day the penny dropped about shaking out properly (not that this was a new idea to me, it just didn’t click). I’d even go so far as to say ‘go full Nomic’! Downsides are much less than people are about to tell you below this post, benefits are numerous. Okay, no adze and harder to plunge – big deal. I can’t think of a single time since getting Nomics that I thought ‘Id’d rather have my Vipers here’ inc easier routes, approaches, etc. I think Dane of coldthistle was even advocating the even more radical Egros on moderate ground. Consensus will have you get Quarks though and in a few years you’ll buy Nomics anyway.

> (In reply to Bwox)
> [...]
>
> +1 its all just so much less of a hassle, with leashes seems some days I spend more time putting my hands in and out of the leashes than doing anything else. Leashless you can switch tools or put a tool on a shoulder or leave one in the rock / ice INSTANTLY, shaking out and placing gear all become simpler too. Its not to do with grade when leashless becomes useful, for me

anyway.

+2
Much easier to place gear, less pumpy when scared, warmer. Such a no brainer really.
I'd still use umbilicals in case I drop one mind.

Oh - Fun game! Considering there are plenty of VIIIs from the 80s I'd say there no doubt on that one. What grade did Guerdon get given in new grades? Was it IX? In which case Cubby has climbed IX with wrist loops and I thought Brian Davison was sort of famous for climbing with all sorts of odd bits and bobs gear, including non-matching elderly tools - so he's probably done IX with wrist loops too.

Of course all the early "new wave" mixed climbs in Europe and N. America were done leashed too, so maybe up to M10?