I would say if you really like the 650's then stick with them as they scale very well. Or, If you like them but are always wanting a bit more... Then go all-out on the HD800's. I very much doubt you will regret it. They are like are a much bigger sounding 650 with better extention at both ends and better resolution. The treble really isn't an issue with me and the amps that I've tried. Grado's and Beyers are too bright for my liking.

As has been said many times, the HD800's will only sound as good as what they are plugged into and what source you are using. But my limited experience with them is this; They sound great anyway! Much more amp friendly than I have been lead to believe. Plug them into a toaster and I'm sure you won't feel like your missing anything.. Plug them into your girlfriend! Have a listen..? I'm sure she'll agree that that's a great bottom end.. and what with those two healthy sized peaks and smooth silky finish... k I'll stop now. :D

I would say if you really like the 650's then stick with them as they scale very well. Or, If you like them but are always wanting a bit more... Then go all-out on the HD800's. I very much doubt you will regret it. They are like are a much bigger sounding 650 with better extention at both ends and better resolution. The treble really isn't an issue with me and the amps that I've tried. Grado's and Beyers are too bright for my liking.

As has been said many times, the HD800's will only sound as good as what they are plugged into and what source you are using. But my limited experience with them is this; They sound great anyway! Much more amp friendly than I have been lead to believe. Plug them into a toaster and I'm sure you won't feel like your missing anything.. Plug them into your girlfriend! Have a listen..? I'm sure she'll agree that that's a great bottom end.. and what with those two healthy sized peaks and smooth silky finish... k I'll stop now. :D

Originally Posted by LugBug1
Plug them into your girlfriend! Have a listen..? I'm sure she'll agree that that's a great bottom end.. and what with those two healthy sized peaks and smooth silky finish... k I'll stop now. :D

Haha! That made me laugh really :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by xphynance

i see, then, I may go with cans first. I was originally thinking of getting a decent amp first to scale up my hd650, then I realized a good dac is also important, then I want to save longer to get them both at a time, then I realized my hd650 may not reveal 100% of the improvement in the source, then I want to save even longer, then I feel frustrated I may not have any new gear in the near future...

what a mess... then I read this thread...

thank you all!

Keep in mind that the HD 650 tend to be a bit darker in sound signature as from what I've heard and the HD 800 is somewhat brighter just like the HD 600 - which, in my eyes, is the unofficial successor of it.

As been already mentioned, test the headphone yourself first - have a good listen to them in a hifi-store near you (if your lucky to have one around). Kindly ask them if they would lend them to you for a weekend - I was lucky enough and had that chance without paying a deposit.

If you think they are for you, then go ahead!

I would keep the amp you have got now as the HD 800 adapts to its source exceedingly well (more than any other headphones I've heard so far). So you can easily decide if the sound signature delivered from your amp to the headphone is something you enjoy or not. Then you can consider upgrading to another amp.

It isn't, not by a long shot. The HD600/650 used to be headphones considered at home in rigs costing upwards of $10000. The HD800 is better, planars are also better but to think that the HD650 is the weak link in a rig with a $400 combo dac and amp upfront... no, just no. The HD650 is darker than the HD800 but feels a little brighter than the LCD-2 because it can't reach down as far into the bass.

Through my years as an audiophile I've gone from $100 sources to $3000 and back again to $1500 range and so forth. Long story short, cost isn't always an indicator of quality and at the same time giant killers at bargain bin prices are rare. My last round of sources... W4S DAC-2 was modestly better than the Burson HA-160D, but the Metrum Octave was better than the W4S everywhere and cost less, win, but neither approached the PWD2 in performance and admittedly cost. But I consider audio gear solid forms of currency and not money spent, so as long as I can swing the buy price, I haven't spent anything. In case that made no sense... I can sell the PWD2 for what I paid for it so essentially the upgrade is free.

The other side of the equation is that if the amp isn't transparent or capable of keeping up with the source, upgrades are hard to hear. Ie the Burson HA-160D is just passable as an amp so the differences between it's DAC and the W4S took speakers to hear, well feel would be more accurate since the change was in force so bass hit harder. Something you could feel but not hear. On better amps the W4S grew it's performance gap to the HA-160D but still wasn't as good as the less expensive Metrum.

Through my years as an audiophile I've gone from $100 sources to $3000 and back again to $1500 range and so forth. Long story short, cost isn't always an indicator of quality and at the same time giant killers at bargain bin prices are rare. My last round of sources... W4S DAC-2 was modestly better than the Burson HA-160D, but the Metrum Octave was better than the W4S everywhere and cost less, win, but neither approached the PWD2 in performance and admittedly cost. But I consider audio gear solid forms of currency and not money spent, so as long as I can swing the buy price, I haven't spent anything. In case that made no sense... I can sell the PWD2 for what I paid for it so essentially the upgrade is free.

The other side of the equation is that if the amp isn't transparent or capable of keeping up with the source, upgrades are hard to hear. Ie the Burson HA-160D is just passable as an amp so the differences between it's DAC and the W4S took speakers to hear, well feel would be more accurate since the change was in force so bass hit harder. Something you could feel but not hear. On better amps the W4S grew it's performance gap to the HA-160D but still wasn't as good as the less expensive Metrum.

LoL....and I compared the PWD2 to the W4S DAC-2 and let's just say I have little interest in the PS Audio DAC. Was it nice...sure, but better? Not really. I found that it imparted a bit too much of its character (warmish-sweet) on the sound, while the DAC-2 was a bit "truer" to the source. Even at roughly the same price, I'd still go with the W4S DAC. This is one area that you and I don't hear things the same (thought for the most part we do). Plus, the PWD2 is freakin' HUGE! We really love the GS-X and HD-800s. Could be personal preferences coming into play too. So I guess it really pays to listen first.

My buddy and I did a shoot out between his BDA-1 and the DAC-2. Long story short, he know owns the DAC-2. But the biggest difference was with USB inputs and the BDA-1 lacked asyncronous USB...but it appears that this has been rectified on the BDA-2.

Plug them into a toaster and I'm sure you won't feel like your missing anything.. Plug them into your girlfriend! Have a listen..? I'm sure she'll agree that that's a great bottom end.. and what with those two healthy sized peaks and smooth silky finish... k I'll stop now. :D

I like your metaphor

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenion

Haha! That made me laugh really :D

Keep in mind that the HD 650 tend to be a bit darker in sound signature as from what I've heard and the HD 800 is somewhat brighter just like the HD 600 - which, in my eyes, is the unofficial successor of it.

As been already mentioned, test the headphone yourself first - have a good listen to them in a hifi-store near you (if your lucky to have one around). Kindly ask them if they would lend them to you for a weekend - I was lucky enough and had that chance without paying a deposit.

If you think they are for you, then go ahead!

I would keep the amp you have got now as the HD 800 adapts to its source exceedingly well (more than any other headphones I've heard so far). So you can easily decide if the sound signature delivered from your amp to the headphone is something you enjoy or not. Then you can consider upgrading to another amp.

Hope I could help a little :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solude

Through my years as an audiophile I've gone from $100 sources to $3000 and back again to $1500 range and so forth. Long story short, cost isn't always an indicator of quality and at the same time giant killers at bargain bin prices are rare. My last round of sources... W4S DAC-2 was modestly better than the Burson HA-160D, but the Metrum Octave was better than the W4S everywhere and cost less, win, but neither approached the PWD2 in performance and admittedly cost. But I consider audio gear solid forms of currency and not money spent, so as long as I can swing the buy price, I haven't spent anything. In case that made no sense... I can sell the PWD2 for what I paid for it so essentially the upgrade is free.

The other side of the equation is that if the amp isn't transparent or capable of keeping up with the source, upgrades are hard to hear. Ie the Burson HA-160D is just passable as an amp so the differences between it's DAC and the W4S took speakers to hear, well feel would be more accurate since the change was in force so bass hit harder. Something you could feel but not hear. On better amps the W4S grew it's performance gap to the HA-160D but still wasn't as good as the less expensive Metrum.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacedonianHero

LoL....and I compared the PWD2 to the W4S DAC-2 and let's just say I have little interest in the PS Audio DAC. Was it nice...sure, but better? Not really. I found that it imparted a bit too much of its character (warmish-sweet) on the sound, while the DAC-2 was a bit "truer" to the source. Even at roughly the same price, I'd still go with the W4S DAC. This is one area that you and I don't hear things the same (thought for the most part we do). Plus, the PWD2 is freakin' HUGE! We really love the GS-X and HD-800s. Could be personal preferences coming into play too. So I guess it really pays to listen first.

My buddy and I did a shoot out between his BDA-1 and the DAC-2. Long story short, he know owns the DAC-2. But the biggest difference was with USB inputs and the BDA-1 lacked asyncronous USB...but it appears that this has been rectified on the BDA-2.

very informative, thank you all for the inputs!

It is the "transparent" and "disappearing" effect of a gear that makes me excited most. I do like my hd650, ever since I put it on my head I could not enjoy the music with any IEMs straight plugged into the iphone, just too vague and, seems like there's a wall stands in between.... I am also surprised I had not noticed that for such a long time.

I assume hd800 could do much better... Hope some one could let me try their hd800 for a while or allow me to plug my hd650 to their amps tomorrow at the NY meeting.

I am a newcommer and considering upgrading my current Nuforce HDP / HD650 combo, but where should start with? should I get a better cans first, or amp first or dac?

I can do only one upgrade at a time now due to limited funding, but it is hard to decide which should come first?

or I should save longer and upgrade them all at a time?

Quote:

Originally Posted by extrabigmehdi

Listen to the cans first, and see if you are interested to buy them.

Otherwise I would upgrade the can first, as it's still the weakest element of the audio chain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RustA

You should definitely start with your headphone first... I would keep your HDP and get HD800.

Then, you will see whether you find the sound to be too bright, or not. If yes, you should upgrade your amp section first (and keep HDP as a DAC). If not, you can enjoy both together until you want to upgrade :-)

I strongly recommend you don't do this. I found the HDP/HD800 not to be a good combination at all, way too bright, harsh and fatiguing to listen to. You'd be much better off sticking with your current combination or upgrading the DAC/amp to something better - the HD6xx series are fine headphones that scale well, though personally I prefer the HD600 of the two, providing it's amped well - it can be quite a relevation with the right partnering equipment. I like the HD800 even more, but it can sound terrible with the wrong gear. Combining it with the HDP would be a complete waste of your money IMO.

I am interested on Metrum for a long time, partly because of the looks, but I've been hearing bass and hf frequency roll off. What is your impression?

No, just no. The Meturm has no rolloff. Where the Metrum and PWD2 really smoked the W4S was in top extension and tonal balance. The W4S is a dark source dry source, the Metrum has great tonal balance and the PWD2 keeps that balance but is also butter smooth. Which might be what MH feels is an overriding colour where I just hear it as completely etch free, the so called analog sound. And yes it is a monster =)