Wow, I'm stunned! I guess I was wrong about the ISO, and there really are FOUR levels of (imo...useless) expansion ISO. Which technically means there is no native ISO improvement over the D3s...

Supposedly it's reported that the D4 is one stop better than the D3s, 6400 ISO D4 = 3200 ISO D3s. I guess what remains to be seen is an actual comparison of ISO between the two.

Its one stop better on the expanded end. The D3s topped out at 102k ISO, where as the D4 tops out at 204k ISO. From a native ISO standpoint, the D4 does not appear to have made any improvements over the D3s.

BDD

Same. I'll likely buy either the D800 or 5D3...most likely the 5D3 if it includes native ISO range of 50-12,800 or so.

The D800 is rumored to top out at only 6400. So it's not really the best choice for low light shooting. And while the D4 has a max ISO of 204,xxx making it's photos shot at 12,800 better than the those using the same ISO on the D3s...I would have expected more native ISO...comparable to the 1D-X's 51,200.

One question I'm wondering about is...Which AF system will track better? The D4 or 1D-X. Looking forwards to the test reports.

One question I'm wondering about is...Which AF system will track better? The D4 or 1D-X. Looking forwards to the test reports.

Based of the AF system specs, the 1D X should be better - more points, more cross-type points, contributions from a higher-res AE sensor, and a dedicated processor for AF/AE. But a lot depends on the algorithms for movement prediction, so we'll have to wait for the empirical tests. When you do finally see them, remember that the lens plays a role too, especially for Canon (faster lenses mean more cross-type points).

It did give them time to tweek their marketing approach for sure (focus on weight, F8 AF, etc).

I certainly noticed that Nikon is highlighting the f/8 AF ability. But...I'd be very interested to know exactly how they implemented this. From the published information: "...the D4 maintains the power of the eleven central AF sensors, including one cross-type even if the combined open aperture value is f/8." ...Personally, I'm almost positive it's #2. The subsequent statement in their announcement was: "If the combined aperture value is between f/5.6 and f/8, you even have the power of fifteen central AF sensors available, of which nine are cross type sensors." I highly doubt the AF sesnor has individual points of differential sensitivity, such that the center cross point has additional f/8 lines, and the surrounding 8 crosses have additional f/7.1 lines or something like that.

Rather, it sounds like they saw the 1D X announcement with the lack of support for AF, tested the D4 models in development, found that they could get away with implementing f/8 AF for some of the points, slightly-wider-than-f/8 for a few more, and altered the firmware to make those points active with an f/8 lens attached....But, from a competitive standpoint, matching Nikon's announced and touted f/8 AF capability may be more important...

I disagree with your sentiments above because the time frame between the 1DX being announced publicly and the D4 rumors starting to show up is not enough time to develop, implement and test adding f/8 AF. It will have been there from the very beginning, regardless of how it is implemented, otherwise there would be too much risk for Nikon to have egg on face (remember the 1D3 problems?)

For Nikon, being able to deliver f/8 in the D4 was just about "staying competitive" for people with long lenses and teleconverters, thus it was only a matter of time before it happened.

I believe that Canon has been caught unawares by this and that Canon thought that they could drop f/8 support because there was no threat from the competition.

I think this is going to be a costly mistake for Canon because if using teleconverters with long lenses is how you shoot, then it is now all one way to Nikon.

What might end up happening is a 1DXn within the next 12 months that addresses this issue and this issue alone - that is unless they can pull a rabbit out of the hat between now and general availability of the 1DX.

To look at this another way, Nikon can sell a 2xTC with their 600mm f/4, giving someone a 1200mm lens at f/8 that works on their top of the line DSLR. Canon does not have anything functional to compete with that.

To look at this another way, Nikon can sell a 2xTC with their 600mm f/4, giving someone a 1200mm lens at f/8 that works on their top of the line DSLR. Canon does not have anything functional to compete with that.

briansquibb

To look at this another way, Nikon can sell a 2xTC with their 600mm f/4, giving someone a 1200mm lens at f/8 that works on their top of the line DSLR. Canon does not have anything functional to compete with that.

Quick - buy a 1D4 and keep the f/8 for the 600+2x

Price of used 1Ds3 has started to come down - I am mighty tempted to buy a low actuation body for £2500/c $3800 and sell the 2x7D and 5DII which would pay for it.

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cfargo

To look at this another way, Nikon can sell a 2xTC with their 600mm f/4, giving someone a 1200mm lens at f/8 that works on their top of the line DSLR. Canon does not have anything functional to compete with that.

Quick - buy a 1D4 and keep the f/8 for the 600+2x

Price of used 1Ds3 has started to come down - I am mighty tempted to buy a low actuation body for £2500/c $3800 and sell the 2x7D and 5DII which would pay for it.

I know many that no longer use their 1Ds3 preferring to use their 5D2 instead. Some of these are Canon Explorers of Light. If you’re shooting something that needs speed, then go with the 1D4 otherwise the 5D2 for portraiture and landscapes. Just my 2 cents.

To look at this another way, Nikon can sell a 2xTC with their 600mm f/4, giving someone a 1200mm lens at f/8 that works on their top of the line DSLR. Canon does not have anything functional to compete with that.

Quick - buy a 1D4 and keep the f/8 for the 600+2x

Price of used 1Ds3 has started to come down - I am mighty tempted to buy a low actuation body for £2500/c $3800 and sell the 2x7D and 5DII which would pay for it.

I know many that no longer use their 1Ds3 preferring to use their 5D2 instead. Some of these are Canon Explorers of Light. If you’re shooting something that needs speed, then go with the 1D4 otherwise the 5D2 for portraiture and landscapes. Just my 2 cents.

There is so much better with the 1Ds3 - like the AF and high iso etc

I know that lots dont like the size and weight of the 1 series, but they are fine for me

I have decided to go with the 1Ds3 and keep the 5DII as well, so just need to sell the two 7Ds

To look at this another way, Nikon can sell a 2xTC with their 600mm f/4, giving someone a 1200mm lens at f/8 that works on their top of the line DSLR. Canon does not have anything functional to compete with that.

Quick - buy a 1D4 and keep the f/8 for the 600+2x

Price of used 1Ds3 has started to come down - I am mighty tempted to buy a low actuation body for £2500/c $3800 and sell the 2x7D and 5DII which would pay for it.

in the last couple of months the price of used 1D4s have gone up considerably

What might end up happening is a 1DXn within the next 12 months that addresses this issue and this issue alone - that is unless they can pull a rabbit out of the hat between now and general availability of the 1DX.

A firmware update to the 1DX might do it. unless the underlying hardware is just not capable, in which case Canon has some serious egg on face

What might end up happening is a 1DXn within the next 12 months that addresses this issue and this issue alone - that is unless they can pull a rabbit out of the hat between now and general availability of the 1DX.

A firmware update to the 1DX might do it. unless the underlying hardware is just not capable, in which case Canon has some serious egg on face

Unless they sacrificed f/8 AF for AF accuracy. It depends on what is more important to each photographer.

sure -- f8 AF performance is likely to be worse than f/5.6, so Canon will have to decide if reduced functionality/performance AF is worth it, compared to what Nikon is offering.

From bits and pieces I've picked up (not necessarily reliable), f/8 AF could affect performance across the board, including fast primes. At Focus on Imaging, the question was asked by a wildlife pro about f/8 (to the CPS rep, who had only had the camera overnight) and the response was, would you prefer f/8 AF or better accuracy with all other lenses? The photographer conceded reluctantly that AF on f/8 lenses (i.e. big whites with extenders) wasn't very quick or reliable anyway.

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Canon 5D MkIII, 7D, 300mm L IS f/2.8 and a few other L's

canon rumors FORUM

Thats an interesting take. I suspect the market (Nikon) will determine the need for f/8 AF, and that if Canon wanted to adjust their firmware to enable f/8 AF while preserving full capability /performance at f/5.6 they could do it. High performance AF may be the differentiator that Canon is going for, though, and for the pro series bodies they could win the argument on the technical merits, i.e. if what you say is true then not many pros will jump brands just to get poorer AF performance at f/8