-The people of Israel have existed for thousands of years.-It has its own particular, essential, nature.-The Torah is the source of its essential nature.-Without Torah and faith there is no people of Israel.-Whoever denies the Torah and the Faith is no longer part of the people of Israel.-The purpose of the People of Israel in this world is Divine service.-Their salvation is occupation in Divine Service.

2) WHAT IS ZIONISM ?

-Zionism is a new thing.-It has only existed for a century.-Zionism redefines the true essential nature of the people of Israel, and substitutes for it a completely contradictory and opposite character.- a materialistic worldly nation.-Their misfortune is lack of what other nations have. i.e. a state and army.-Their salvation is possession of a state and army etc.- This is clearly speed out in the circles of Zionist though, and among the leaders of the Zionist state, That through changing the nature and character of the people of Israel and by changing their way of thinking they can set before the People of Israel "their salvation." -- a state and an army.

3) THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL OPPOSE THIS FOR 4 REASONS

FIRST - Because this is diametrically opposed and completely contradictory to the true essence and foundation of the people of Israel, as it explained above. Because the only time that the people of Israel where permitted to have a state were two thousand years ago when the Glory of the Creator was upon us. And likewise in the future when the Glory of the Creator will once more be revealed, and the whole world will serve Him. Then He Himself (without any human effort or force of arms) will grant us a kingdom founded on Divine Service.

However, a wordily state, like those possessed by other peoples, is contradictory to the true essence of the People of Israel. Whoever calls this the salvation of Israel shows that he denies the essence of the People of Israel, and substituted another nature, a worldly materialistic nature, and therefore sets before them, a worldly materialistic "salvation." And the means of achieving this "salvation" is also worldly and materialistic i.e. to organize land and army.

However, the true salvation of the People of Israel is to draw close to the Creator. And this is not done by organization and force of arms. Rather, it is done by occupation to Torah and good deeds.

A real practitioner of Judaism cannot accept Zionism or the Zionist state of israel because God commanded Israel ( A people, not a place) to disperse from the area of the eastern Mediterranean (the diaspora) and not return until their messiah appeared. The jewish people in israel are either too stupid to realize because of ignorance of their own religion this ,or are not real jewish people at all.

Judaism is not a prostelytizing religion, in fact forbids it. Therefore the only converts are through procreation which, it doesn't take an Einstein to figure out, means Judaism is almost exclusively a race.

Indeed. Yes I have noticed an internationalist flavor in Jewish thought. I wonder if Internationalism is bred into the Jewish genes, all the evidence points that way: Marxism and Anarcho-Capitalism (jewish and jewish)

it represents a twisted opinion held by a small minority of religious extremists

WHO THEMSELVES LIVE IN THE LAND OF ISREAL

The return to zion by the jewish people is a Biblical ideajewish people from all walks of life have strived to return to the land of Israel ever since their forced exile by the Romansmore than 2000 years ago

1740-1750 - Thousands immigrate to Eretz Yisrael under the influence of Messianic predictions. Among the immigrants is Rabbi Moses Haim Luzzatto (1707-1746), the renowned author of Messilat Yesharim, and Kabbalist Rabbi Haim ben Attar, author of the landmark Or Hahayim commentary. The large immigration greatly increases the size and strength of the Jewish Settlement in Eretz Yisrael. (Morgenstern, Arie. “Dispersion and Longing for Zion, 1240-1840”. Azure.) 1740Ottoman authorities invite Rabbi Haim Abulafia (1660-1744), renowned Kabbalist and Rabbi of Izmir, to come to the Holy Land. Rabbi Abulafia is to rebuild the city of Tiberias, which has lain desolate for some 70 years. The city’s revival is seen by many as a sign of the coming of the Messiah. (Morgenstern, Arie. “Dispersion and Longing for Zion, 1240-1840”. Azure.) 1740 Rabbi Abraham Gershon of Kitob (d. 1760) is the first immigrant of the Hassidic Aliyah. He is a respected Talmudic scholar, mystic, and brother-in-law of Rabbi Israel Baal Shem Tov (founder of the Hassidic movement). Rabbi Abraham first settles in Hebron. Later, he relocates to Jerusalem at the behest of its residents. (Encyclopedia Judaica, vol. 9, pp. 514. Gershon of Kitov) 1742 Aliyah of Hassidim to Tiberias, led by Rabbi Menahem Mendel of Peremyshlyny (b. 1728). This is the first organized Hassidic Aliyah, and begins a period marked by a number of Hassidic Aliyot. (Encyclopedia Judaica vol. 11 pp. 1309) 1764 Aliyah of Hassidic leaders. Rabbi Menahem Mendel of Vitebsk (1730-1788) and Avraham Kalisk lead a group of 300 immigrants. The immigrants settle in Tiberias, where Rabbi Menahem Mendel oversees the building of a Hassidic synagogue. (Encyclopedia Judaica, vol. 9, pp. 514) 1777 1799

Napoleon Bonaparte publishes a proclamation: “Rightful heirs of Palestine ... Take over that which has been conquered and…remain its master, to maintain it against all comers.” Many jewish people in Israel and Europe receive the proclamation with joy. ( - 36 –35, Napoleon)

1799 Rabbi Moshe Sofer (known as Hatam Sofer, 1762-1839) admonishes the jewish people of the Diaspora, “Go and travel now”. This occurs on the seventh day of the Jewish month of Av, four months after Napoleon’s proclamation. With great passion, he discusses his high hopes for a nearing Redemption, and hints at the importance of taking practical measures to hasten its coming. ( - 43) 1800

The population of Eretz Yisrael is 300,000, of which 5,000 are jewish people. Most of the jewish people are concentrated in Jerusalem, Safed, Tiberias and Hebron.(Encyclopedia Judaica, vol. 9, pp. 293) 1806

Napoleon I revokes his support of a Jewish homeland and equal rights for jewish people. After coming under a strong antisemitic influence in Pressburg, he gathers Jewish leaders from across his empire in order to amend Jewish law and to abolish Jewish nationalism. ( - 44)First wave of disciples of Rabbi Eliyahu of Vilna (known as the Vilna Gaon, 1720-1797) arrives in the Holy Land, led by Rabbi Menachem Mendel of Sheklov (d. 1827). The new immigrants journey to Tiberias; seeing the strong Hassidic community there, they relocate to Safed, where they foster a warm relationship with the Sephardi community. (Ya’ari, Avraham. “Talmidei Hagra Vehishtarshutam Ba’aretz”. Encyclopedia Judaica, vol. 11, pp. 1310) 1808

HebronSecond wave of the Vilna Gaon’s students comes to Eretz Yisrael, led by his chief disciple, Rabbi Saadya Ben Rabbi Natan Neta of Vilna. 1809Third wave of the Vilna Gaon’s disciples immigrates to Safed, among them Rabbi Israel Sheklov (d. 1839). A community of 150 jewish people of Lithuanian origin (known as Perushim) greets them. (Encyclopedia Judaica, vol. 9, pp. 1059. Ya’ari, Avraham. “Talmidei Hagra Vehishtarshutam Ba’aretz”.) 1809Agricultural land is bought by students of the Vilna Gaon in the spirit of the “Natural Redemption”. Flourishing agriculture is seen as a sign of Redemption, and enables the jewish people to fulfill the Biblical commandments pertaining to agricultural work in the Land of Israel. (Morgenstern, Arie. “Dispersion and Longing for Zion, 1240-1840, 1240-1840”. Azure.) 1810

it represents a twisted opinion held by a small minority of religious extremists

WHO THEMSELVES LIVE IN THE LAND OF ISREAL

The return to zion by the jewish people is a Biblical ideajewish people from all walks of life have strived to return to the land of Israel ever since their forced exile by the Romansmore than 2000 years ago

1740-1750 - Thousands immigrate to Eretz Yisrael under the influence of Messianic predictions. Among the immigrants is Rabbi Moses Haim Luzzatto (1707-1746), the renowned author of Messilat Yesharim, and Kabbalist Rabbi Haim ben Attar, author of the landmark Or Hahayim commentary. The large immigration greatly increases the size and strength of the Jewish Settlement in Eretz Yisrael. (Morgenstern, Arie. “Dispersion and Longing for Zion, 1240-1840”. Azure.) 1740Ottoman authorities invite Rabbi Haim Abulafia (1660-1744), renowned Kabbalist and Rabbi of Izmir, to come to the Holy Land. Rabbi Abulafia is to rebuild the city of Tiberias, which has lain desolate for some 70 years. The city’s revival is seen by many as a sign of the coming of the Messiah. (Morgenstern, Arie. “Dispersion and Longing for Zion, 1240-1840”. Azure.) 1740 Rabbi Abraham Gershon of Kitob (d. 1760) is the first immigrant of the Hassidic Aliyah. He is a respected Talmudic scholar, mystic, and brother-in-law of Rabbi Israel Baal Shem Tov (founder of the Hassidic movement). Rabbi Abraham first settles in Hebron. Later, he relocates to Jerusalem at the behest of its residents. (Encyclopedia Judaica, vol. 9, pp. 514. Gershon of Kitov) 1742 Aliyah of Hassidim to Tiberias, led by Rabbi Menahem Mendel of Peremyshlyny (b. 1728). This is the first organized Hassidic Aliyah, and begins a period marked by a number of Hassidic Aliyot. (Encyclopedia Judaica vol. 11 pp. 1309) 1764 Aliyah of Hassidic leaders. Rabbi Menahem Mendel of Vitebsk (1730-1788) and Avraham Kalisk lead a group of 300 immigrants. The immigrants settle in Tiberias, where Rabbi Menahem Mendel oversees the building of a Hassidic synagogue. (Encyclopedia Judaica, vol. 9, pp. 514) 1777 1799

Napoleon Bonaparte publishes a proclamation: “Rightful heirs of Palestine ... Take over that which has been conquered and…remain its master, to maintain it against all comers.” Many jewish people in Israel and Europe receive the proclamation with joy. ( - 36 –35, Napoleon)

1799 Rabbi Moshe Sofer (known as Hatam Sofer, 1762-1839) admonishes the jewish people of the Diaspora, “Go and travel now”. This occurs on the seventh day of the Jewish month of Av, four months after Napoleon’s proclamation. With great passion, he discusses his high hopes for a nearing Redemption, and hints at the importance of taking practical measures to hasten its coming. ( - 43) 1800

The population of Eretz Yisrael is 300,000, of which 5,000 are jewish people. Most of the jewish people are concentrated in Jerusalem, Safed, Tiberias and Hebron.(Encyclopedia Judaica, vol. 9, pp. 293) 1806

Napoleon I revokes his support of a Jewish homeland and equal rights for jewish people. After coming under a strong antisemitic influence in Pressburg, he gathers Jewish leaders from across his empire in order to amend Jewish law and to abolish Jewish nationalism. ( - 44)First wave of disciples of Rabbi Eliyahu of Vilna (known as the Vilna Gaon, 1720-1797) arrives in the Holy Land, led by Rabbi Menachem Mendel of Sheklov (d. 1827). The new immigrants journey to Tiberias; seeing the strong Hassidic community there, they relocate to Safed, where they foster a warm relationship with the Sephardi community. (Ya’ari, Avraham. “Talmidei Hagra Vehishtarshutam Ba’aretz”. Encyclopedia Judaica, vol. 11, pp. 1310) 1808

HebronSecond wave of the Vilna Gaon’s students comes to Eretz Yisrael, led by his chief disciple, Rabbi Saadya Ben Rabbi Natan Neta of Vilna. 1809Third wave of the Vilna Gaon’s disciples immigrates to Safed, among them Rabbi Israel Sheklov (d. 1839). A community of 150 jewish people of Lithuanian origin (known as Perushim) greets them. (Encyclopedia Judaica, vol. 9, pp. 1059. Ya’ari, Avraham. “Talmidei Hagra Vehishtarshutam Ba’aretz”.) 1809Agricultural land is bought by students of the Vilna Gaon in the spirit of the “Natural Redemption”. Flourishing agriculture is seen as a sign of Redemption, and enables the jewish people to fulfill the Biblical commandments pertaining to agricultural work in the Land of Israel. (Morgenstern, Arie. “Dispersion and Longing for Zion, 1240-1840, 1240-1840”. Azure.) 1810

-The people of Israel have existed for thousands of years.-It has its own particular, essential, nature.-The Torah is the source of its essential nature.-Without Torah and faith there is no people of Israel.-Whoever denies the Torah and the Faith is no longer part of the people of Israel.-The purpose of the People of Israel in this world is Divine service.-Their salvation is occupation in Divine Service.

2) WHAT IS ZIONISM ?

-Zionism is a new thing.-It has only existed for a century.-Zionism redefines the true essential nature of the people of Israel, and substitutes for it a completely contradictory and opposite character.- a materialistic worldly nation.-Their misfortune is lack of what other nations have. i.e. a state and army.-Their salvation is possession of a state and army etc.- This is clearly speed out in the circles of Zionist though, and among the leaders of the Zionist state, That through changing the nature and character of the people of Israel and by changing their way of thinking they can set before the People of Israel "their salvation." -- a state and an army.

3) THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL OPPOSE THIS FOR 4 REASONS

FIRST - Because this is diametrically opposed and completely contradictory to the true essence and foundation of the people of Israel, as it explained above. Because the only time that the people of Israel where permitted to have a state were two thousand years ago when the Glory of the Creator was upon us. And likewise in the future when the Glory of the Creator will once more be revealed, and the whole world will serve Him. Then He Himself (without any human effort or force of arms) will grant us a kingdom founded on Divine Service.

However, a wordily state, like those possessed by other peoples, is contradictory to the true essence of the People of Israel. Whoever calls this the salvation of Israel shows that he denies the essence of the People of Israel, and substituted another nature, a worldly materialistic nature, and therefore sets before them, a worldly materialistic "salvation." And the means of achieving this "salvation" is also worldly and materialistic i.e. to organize land and army.

However, the true salvation of the People of Israel is to draw close to the Creator. And this is not done by organization and force of arms. Rather, it is done by occupation to Torah and good deeds.

The damned jeuws, not used in a profanedy way, believe in the babylonian talmud or nothing at all. The so called jeuws are not the people of "THE BOOK", they are not YAHSHARAL. THEY are khazars mixed with edomites. Whoever wrote this needs to study or they are leaven.

A real practitioner of Judaism cannot accept Zionism or the Zionist state of israel because God commanded Israel ( A people, not a place) to disperse from the area of the eastern Mediterranean (the diaspora) and not return until their messiah appeared. The jewish people in israel are either too stupid to realize because of ignorance of their own religion this ,or are not real jewish people at all.

-The people of Israel have existed for thousands of years.-It has its own particular, essential, nature.-The Torah is the source of its essential nature.-Without Torah and faith there is no people of Israel.-Whoever denies the Torah and the Faith is no longer part of the people of Israel.-The purpose of the People of Israel in this world is Divine service.-Their salvation is occupation in Divine Service.

2) WHAT IS ZIONISM ?

-Zionism is a new thing.-It has only existed for a century.-Zionism redefines the true essential nature of the people of Israel, and substitutes for it a completely contradictory and opposite character.- a materialistic worldly nation.-Their misfortune is lack of what other nations have. i.e. a state and army.-Their salvation is possession of a state and army etc.- This is clearly speed out in the circles of Zionist though, and among the leaders of the Zionist state, That through changing the nature and character of the people of Israel and by changing their way of thinking they can set before the People of Israel "their salvation." -- a state and an army.

3) THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL OPPOSE THIS FOR 4 REASONS

FIRST - Because this is diametrically opposed and completely contradictory to the true essence and foundation of the people of Israel, as it explained above. Because the only time that the people of Israel where permitted to have a state were two thousand years ago when the Glory of the Creator was upon us. And likewise in the future when the Glory of the Creator will once more be revealed, and the whole world will serve Him. Then He Himself (without any human effort or force of arms) will grant us a kingdom founded on Divine Service.

However, a wordily state, like those possessed by other peoples, is contradictory to the true essence of the People of Israel. Whoever calls this the salvation of Israel shows that he denies the essence of the People of Israel, and substituted another nature, a worldly materialistic nature, and therefore sets before them, a worldly materialistic "salvation." And the means of achieving this "salvation" is also worldly and materialistic i.e. to organize land and army.

However, the true salvation of the People of Israel is to draw close to the Creator. And this is not done by organization and force of arms. Rather, it is done by occupation to Torah and good deeds.

(Originally published in Torah-Judaism and the State of Israel [New York: 1972])

Uriel Zimmer first began writing in the orthodox Jewish Press in 1939 and has since contributed many hundreds of thought-provoking articles throughout the orthodox Press. He has been the editor of the oldest existing Jerusalem Hebrew daily -"Hakol"- for many years and has frequently written for the columns of the "Jewish Post", London, "Der Yid", New York, and "Emounatenu" of Paris.

He is a linguist of renown and has translated some of the writings of Rabbi Hirsch from German into Hebrew, the essays of Nathan Birnbaum, the poems of de Haan from German into English, and the Tanya from Hebrew into Yiddish.

He has traveled widely on the European Continent, including Turkey, and also in Latin-America. In 1946 he visited many of the D.P. camps, and was associated there with active rescue work. He was a co-founder of the first branch of the Agudist Youth Movement in Haifa in 1938.

Uriel Zimmer has had the closest personal contacts with many of the sages and thinkers of independent Orthodoxy, and is persona grata with many of the Gedolim of our days. He is closely affiliated with the activities of the "Chabad" (Lubavitch) movement. He was a close friend of the late Rabbi Moshe Blau, Dr. Isaac Breuer and Dr. Pinchas Kohn.

He was born in Vienna in 1921 and settled in Jerusalem in 1934. He is the United Nations correspondent of several newspapers.

The Guardians of the City

By URIEL ZIMMER

Rabbi Yehudah the Prince sent Rabbi Chiya and Rabbi Yossi and Rabbi Ami to tour the towns of Eretz Israel to establish there teachers and sages. They came to one place and found there, neither teachers nor sages. Thus, they spoke unto them: “bring us the guardians of the city”. They went and brought the policemen of the city. The Rabbi’s asked: “are these the guardians of the city? nay, these are the destroyers of the city”. “Who than are the guardians of the city?”* - "The teachers and sages" they answered, for the Scripture says (Psalms 126): If the Lord build nor a house, in vain have its builders labored for it. (Yerushalmi, Chagiga, Ch. 1, 7).

This Talmudical episode, repeated several times in the Midrashim, has certainly inspired the way of thought of the Jewish people. The Sages of Israel were always regarded as the true "Guardians of the City" and it is they who have guarded it throughout the generations.

"Guardians of the City" or, in the language of the above Talmudical quotation, "Neturei Karta" &#8209; in the spirit of this quotation, is also the name that has been chosen by a movement in Jerusalem, and here the stress is both on the "guardians" and on the City - the Holy City of Jerusalem, of course.

To many, "Neturei Karta" is a synonym for the bogey man. To others, the name conveys the idea of fanaticism, bigotry, and what&#8209;not. To others again, it is the Enemy No. 1 of the Jewish People and of the Holy Land. Very few, however, are even aware of the meaning of the name, and less still are those who have any amount of actual knowledge about the movement carrying that name.

"Neturei Karta" can be fully understood only against the background of the picturesque scene of Jerusalem; and Jerusalem, in turn, has something in it that cannot be conveyed in words, that cannot even be grasped by seeing, but that must be lived in to be understood. It is therefore only an external description that can be expected here.

It is a well&#8209;known rule of logic that every definition consists of two parts: statement of the group to which the object belongs, and description of the specific characteristic by which the particular object of definition differs from the other parts of its group. In an attempt to find a definition for "Neturei Karta," therefore, let us try to follow the same narrowing&#8209;down pattern, and subsequently dwell upon each of the two parts.

Neturei Karla is part of the non&#8209;Zionist trend within Orthodoxy, and it is the Jerusalem brand of that trend. In other words: the specific trait of Neturei Karta consists of its local Jerusalemite color. This coloring marks it out from the far larger trend of which Neturei Karta is part. Let us therefore first present the trend as a whole, and later refer to its specific Jerusalem brand.

Orthodoxy and Zionism

Opposition to the modern Zionist movement on the part of important segments of orthodox Rabbinic leadership is as old as the Zionist movement itself. Some orthodox quarters nowadays may not feel very comfortable about it, but it is a fact that while some segments of Orthodoxy supported Zionism from the first, some outstanding Rabbinic personalities ranked foremost among the opponents of Zionism from its inception, and this opposition was shared throughout the Jewish world, across the boundaries of Chasidim, Misnagdim, etc. &#8209; Rabbi Chaim of Brisk, the Lubavitcher rebbes, the Rabbinic and Chasidic leaders of Poland, Galicia and Hungary, the rabbis of German Orthodoxy were all equally opposed to Zionism from its very beginning.

This opposition was voiced in various styles and versions, varying according to individual and local background. They all regarded the philosophy of Zionism as diametrically opposed to the most basic principles of Judaism. This author has made an attempt elsewhere* at analyzing this ideology in detail. Space does not permit more than a brief summary of its principles here:

Secular Zionism or Jewish Nationalism represents an attempt at transforming the Jewish people to a new identity, to "a nation among the nations" instead of "the Chosen People" of G&#8209;d. Hence, all the basic definitions become forcibly molded into the pattern of non&#8209;Jewish nationalism. Torah, the soul, the raison deter, the condition sine qua non for the existence of the Jewish people, nay of the entire world becomes a "religion" which, under modern concepts, is the private domain of each individual. Eretz Israel, the Holy Land, becomes the "national home", and the State or &#8209; in former years &#8209; the striving to achieve the "Judenstaat", is also part of the general trend of secularization and transformation of the hallowed idea of Messianic redemption. This trend, therefore, is seen as diametrically opposed to Torah, hence the fierce objection to Zionism. No one denies that there have been other orthodox jewish people who &#8209; with more or less justification - held different views and some even regarded Zionism &#8209; and later the State of Israel &#8209; *as "the dawn of the Messianic era." It is not the intention here to go into that controversy, but it remains a fact that there has always been an orthodox anti&#8209;Zionist view, and that such views have been adhered to by very outstanding Rabbinic leaders.

When the State of Israel came into being, very few among these high&#8209;ranking orthodox leaders, if any, changed their views. The State of Israel being the realization, the implementation of Zionism, there could be very little done to change the objection in principle. Neither did the reality of the State warrant any such change of view or disprove the original negative attitude towards Zionism. There could, in the view of this trend, be only a question of what tactics should be applied, in light of the fact that what had formerly been an organization built on voluntary membership has now become a State with means of law&#8209;enforcement, etc.

On the other hand, it is a fact that very few among these Rabbinic leaders have spoken up for their own view since the inception of the State of Israel. Whether the reason was a lack of courage, a fear of the loss of funds for the institutions led by them, or otherwise &#8209; the fact remains. This has created the erroneous belief among the masses of jewish people that non&#8209;Zionism on the orthodox side is confined to a small sect of fanatics. To put it very mildly and carefully, non&#8209;Zionism in Orthodoxy is still a quite powerful trend with a considerable following, although there may be differences of opinion as to the practical steps to be taken in demonstrating that view. This, in general outlines, is the world&#8209;picture of which Neturei Karta, basically, constitutes a local cell.

The "Old Yishuv"

Let us now turn to the local Jerusalem scene. Many people take Neturei Karta as synonymous with the "Old Yishuv." This is very inaccurate. There are many active followers of Neturei Karta who could not easily be classified as being part of the "Old Yishuv," and there are lots of members of the "Old Yishuv" who are in no way "Neturei Karta." Yet, one might say with some accuracy that Neturei Karta considers itself as the defender and spokesman of the Old Yishuv, and it is on the soil of the Old Yishuv that Neturei Karta came into being, and it is only, against this background that it can be understood.

The Old Yishuv is the realization of a movement which came into being some 150 years ago, a movement which swept throughout European Jewry of that era. The sources of the movement are to be sought entirely in the spiritual field; although the turmoil of the Napoleonic era may, have had some indirect bearing on the environments in which it was born. The disciples of the Gaon of Vilna, the disciples and followers of the Baal Shem Tov and the Maggid of Mezritch &#8209; headed by Rabbi Mendel of Vitebsk the adherents of the Chasam Sofer of Pressburg, sent groups of selected scholars and pious men to dwell in the Holy Land and devote their lives there to the study and pursuit of the Holy Torah.

There was no outward stimulus, no general movement of Jewish emigration existing at that time in Central or Eastern Europe. The journey to the shores of the Holy Land entailed many perils, taking many months and often years. The homes these emigrants left behind were snug and warm, however modest. The new land was a harsh undeveloped land. Settling in this new environment entailed countless hardships, trials and travails. Ardent love of the Holy Land made it possible for them to overcome all these hardships. Plagues, diseases, often hunger and distress could not deter them. It was not, as is so often erroneously stated, in order to die and be buried in the sacred soil, but in order to live there a saintly and devout life, that these people had come to the shores of Palestine.

When an earthquake of 1837 in Safed &#8209; then the main center of the Old Yishuv &#8209; killed a comparatively large number of the immigrants, these pious jewish people only asked themselves: What sin had they committed to deserve such punishment? And they found their fault in that they had concentrated only in the Holy City of Safed which at that time &#8209; as a crossroad of camel caravans &#8209; offered more economic stability, and had neglected her older sister Jerusalem which, accessible only through a hazardous journey through the Judean hills on donkey back, offered but little security. It was then that the European ("Ashkenazi") part of the Old Yishuv in Jerusalem was founded, first inside the ancient walls of the Old City; and later outside the walls to the North and West.

It would go too far beyond the scope of this article to give even a brief outline of the fascinating history of the unsung heroes of the Old Yishuv. It is important, however, for our topic, to define, however briefly, the ideology animating them: By coming to the Holy Land they had not only sought self&#8209;perfection through and on the sacred soil, but they also felt they were carrying out a certain mission for the entire Jewish people, and particularly for the Jewish communities whence they emanated. Those communities, in turn, regarded them as their representatives and considered it a duty of honor to care for their livelihood. There was no need for vociferous fundraising, but "Rabbi Meir Baal Haness" was a popular institution to which practically every Jewish man and woman contributed voluntarily.

The sons and grandsons of those first founders of the Old Yishuv were already born on Holy Land soil. It is true that their idealism may not have displayed the tension, the dynamic force inherent in every "first" effort. On the other hand, their roots in the soil of the Holy Land were even deeper. To them, the Judean hills, the magic blue of Lake Kinneres, the frowning, mysterious mountains of Galilee around Safed were not only the Holy Land &#8209; but home in the most simple and literal sense of the word. These mountains and hills resounded not only with the voice of the ancient forefathers, but also with the memories of their own childhood.

The Clash

The turbulent era of the 19th and early 20th centuries in Eastern Europe had its equivalent also in Jerusalem, though less fiercely. There could have been no serious clash with such elements as the Maskilim, since there were so few of them amidst the walls of Jerusalem, but they did occur oc*casionally.

With the advent of Zionism, a new element entered the scene of the Holy Land.

It is an almost forgotten fact that the first agricultural settlement outside Jerusalem &#8209; Petach Tikvah &#8209; was founded by sons of the Old Yishuv. The by&#8209;laws of the Association organized for the founding of that "colony" &#8209; as it used to be called then &#8209; would now sound like a "fanatic" and "extremist" code.*

The later "colonies," however, were founded by an entirely different element. The young Zionists had come to Palestine for a purpose precisely opposite to that of the old Yishuv: to create on the soil of the ancient Jewish "homeland" a new type of jewish, a jewish not dominated and governed by the Torah, but a jewish aiming to build a "nation among nations."

The people of the Old Yishuv were opposed to these tendencies. But, what is more, they saw in these tendencies not only an effort to change the identity of the People, but also the identity of the Land which was so dear to them. In other words, their opposition was based not only on their religious views in general, but also on their particular attachment to the Holy Land. No wonder, therefore, that the clash on the soil of the Holy Land was more vehement than elsewhere.

After World War I, the Zionist Organization and its affiliate institutions gained a certain degree of official recognition by the British authorities who had in 1917 issued the Balfour Declaration, and later appointed Sir Herbert Samuel as High Commissioner for Palestine. These were the results of efforts made by world Zionism, particularly by those of its leaders who had influence in London.

The Old Yishuv saw itself in danger of being forced to give up its own independent way of life, To combat that danger, it sought the support of another Jewish world organization, Agudath Israel, which was then outspokenly anti&#8209;Zionist, and which had been founded in 1912 as a combined effort of Rabbinic leaders from Poland, Lithuania, Russia, and Germany &#8209; for the explicit purpose, of combating Zionism. The present leaders of Neturei Karta were at that time active members of Agudath Israel. Rabbi Amram Blau, for instance, was the editor of Kol Israel, then the official organ of Agudath Israel in Jerusalem.

To fully describe what the battle was actually about would require much local detail, yet at least the major points are necessary to obtain as idea. The British authorities, in the "Palestine Order in Council" &#8209; which served as a sort of constitution for the Mandatory territory of Palestine &#8209; recognized a "Jewish Community" &#8209; Knesseth Israel &#8209; of which every jewish above the age of eighteen had to be a member. This "Jewish Community," (whose governing council was the "Vaad Leumi") was practically a unit of the Zionist Organization. In other words, this in effect meant a compulsory affiliation with the Zionist movement. Agudath Israel successfully achieved the right not to be a member of the Knesseth Israel. An "Orthodox Community" (Eda Charedith) was founded which, at that time, was regarded a synonym for Agudath Israel. The Chief Rabbinate, recognized by the British, was also part of the Knesseth Israel. The Agudah founded its own Rabbinate, headed by the late Rabbi Sonnenfeld.

During later years when European leaders of Agudath Israel began taking more interest in Palestine, the Eda Charedith was regarded only as a cell of the Agudah. In the early thirties, an Agudath Israel delegation from Poland visited Palestine. The clashes between the Agudah and the Vaad Leumi had become bitter. The visitors regarded it as their duty to bring about a sort of armistice. The local leaders maintained a different attitude. To make a long story short, a compromise was finally reached, and the younger, extremist group was expelled from the Agudah. This group was to become the Neturei Karta. The name was assumed about 1940.

In the beginning, the group's activities consisted of sporadically publishing posters (much of Jerusalem's controversies to this day are being fought through a battle of pasquevilles) criticizing the Agudah leadership. Rabbi Aaron Katzenellenbogen, occasionally also Rabbi Amram Blau, in their frequent public speeches, used to criticize and sometimes poke fun at the Agudah leadership. A piquant note was added to those attacks by the fact that both had brothers who occupied leading positions with the Agudath Israel. Rabbi Aaron Katzenellenbogen's brother is Rabbi Raphael Katzenellenbogen, presently affiliated with Poale Agudath Israel, and Rabbi Amram Blau's brother was Rabbi Moshe Blau, the famous Agudah leader and representative before various political and governmental bodies.

In 1945, elections were held to the Eda Charedith, the separate Jewish Community founded by the Agudah, to which both groups still belonged. The list, or lists, of Neturei Karta won the elections, and the Agudah was practically left out of the Eda Charedith. Still, there was the person of Rabbi Joseph Zvi Dushinsky, the chief Rabbi of the Eda, who was esteemed and recognized by both.

In 1946, Rabbi Moshe Blau suddenly died in a very dramatic way, at the age of 61: He was on a boat on his way to Europe and the U.S. and died on the Mediterranean island of Messina, where he had been taken off the boat in an effort to perform an emergency operation. His body was flown to Eretz Israel. Rabbi Blau, to be sure, was a staunch and proud Agudah leader. Yet, he had been a son of the Old Yishuv, the sixth generation &#8209; on his mother's side &#8209; in the Holy Land. It was no secret that, despite the sharp and merciless criticism aimed at the Agudah by his own brother and other leaders of Neturei Karta, in their heart they loved him as "a chip off the old block." Many a Neturei Karta'nik who was among the 10,000 people who attended his funeral shed a tear when the aged and patriarchal Rabbi Dushinsky, with a shaking voice, proclaimed: "We have all sinned against him &#8209; let us all say the prayer of confession" and, at the head of the massed thousands, the venerable rabbi beat on his heart with his right fist when he pronounced the words of the Oshamnu prayer.

After the death of Rabbi Moshe Blau, the Agudah leadership went over more and more to Polish immigrants who had little understanding for the spirit of the Old Yishuv. The secession of Neturei Karta from the Agudah became more outspoken.

The establishment of the State of Israel in spring 1948 was followed by the death of Rabbi Dushinsky in late 1948. With his passing away, the last link between Neturei Karta and their mother organization was broken.

The various clashes between Neturei Karta and the authorities of the State of Israel, the refusal of the former to award even a "de facto" recognition to the other, etc., etc &#8209; are well known and have been highly publicized. It would serve no purpose to recite them here.

The ideology behind all these acts and outbreaks is obvious, on the basis of our explanations earlier: "The State of Israel is an organic part of Zionism.

Zionism is against the Torah, and so is the State which implements it - and this not only because the State happens to be governed by non&#8209;religious people, but because the very idea of a 'Judenstaat' is foreign to Torah. In the same manner as we were not members of the Zionist Organization, therefore, we refuse to have any relationship or give any recognition to the State, at least to such extent as is feasible."

Misconceptions

Instead of continuing our deliberations in the realm of theory, it might be more useful at this point to dispel several commonly accepted misconceptions about Neturei Karta, which, in a way, will render the picture more complete.

The charge that Neturei Karta "hate" the Holy Land is one of the most ridiculous ever made. These are people who, as said, are natives of the country for generations; and attached to it as one can only be to his native soil. Yet, it might be worthwhile to quote a few practical episodes, perhaps not commonly known; Meah Shearim is located on the extreme demarcation line between Israel and Jordan: In the Meah Shearim section, the so&#8209;called "Hungarian Houses" (Bottey Ungarn, built some eighty years ago with the aid of donations from Hungary), are the closest to the border. Jordan territory is literally a few steps away. During the siege of Jerusalem in 1948, this section was under the heaviest shell&#8209;fire. The majority of its residents then fled to the relatively safer quarters located farther off the demarcation lines. Rabbi Amram Blau, the leader of Neturei Karta, refused to abandon the Hungarian Houses where he lives. Sure enough, he was wounded by an Arab shell, and had to be given medical care. No sooner were his wounds patched than he returned to his home, a few yards from the border, which he refused to leave.

Nor is this love of the native soil confined to certain sections of Jerusalem. It may not be generally known that already some thirty years ago; the very same people who now constitute Neturei Karta (as said, no group by that name had existed as yet by that time) founded a company under the name of "Ramatayim Zofim" for the purpose of acquiring a certain piece of land near the site of the Biblical town of that name (now on Jordan territory, Ramah, the site of the tomb of the Prophet Samuel) and founding a semi*-agricultural settlement there. The company had been registered with the (British Mandatory) Government and practical steps had been taken, to implement the plan, which failed of execution only for financial reasons.

Another opinion frequently heard refers to their "violence." The truth is that while there is quite a lot of violence going on in Israel, Neturei Karta has practically no part in it. To quote but one example, only recently the press reported about a Moroccan immigrant who, enraged about a social worker who did not grant his wish, bit her ear off… Throughout the years, there have been a number of authenticated reports of brutal outbreaks of the Jerusalem police against orthodox jewish people at large, under the pretext that they were Neturei Karta’niks. Some on&#8209;the&#8209;spot pictures were published in Time magazine and other sources. This writer has more than once been an eyewitness to those events. Once, as the readers will recall, they even resulted in the murder of Rabbi Segalov (who, incidentally, was not even a Neturei Karta’nik). Yet, on the other hand, there has never been any demonstration or outbreak of Neturei Karta accompanied by more than shouting and yelling. When a representative of the Agudah claimed several years ago that he had been beaten by some young boys of Neturei Karta, the whole thing was later exposed by one of Israel's outstanding weekly magazines (Ayin Bi&#8209;Ayin, certainly not affiliated with Neturei Karta) as a publicity stunt and a hoax.

Then there is the strong and sometimes poisonous language sometimes used by the various publications, pamphlets, or posters of Neturei Karta. It is certainly disgusting to many, regardless of their attitude towards the substance of the matters under discussion. On the other hand, however, one must not forget two facts: first, this is the Middle East, after all. Strong, pointed language is the general trend. During election campaigns, or other occasions, Israel's various parties &#8209; all of them &#8209; use a far worse kind of language. Secondly, has anybody ever taken the trouble to examine the language used by the opponents of Neturei Karta? Compared with this, even the most poisonous attacks by Neturei Karta are as child&#8209;play, and there is plenty of evidence to prove this point. When one is hurt, he cries and only rarely will he chose his words.

Finally, let us mention one more point which is the source of a great number of misconceptions: Neturei Karta has become a sort of scapegoat, blamed for every evil, a sort of pretext granting a prior absolution for every sort of cruelty or violence. Let us quote only one typical example:

Back in 1949, a demonstration was held in Jerusalem against the public desecration of the Sabbath. The demonstration was organized by an ad&#8209;hoc, non&#8209;partisan committee, and at its head marched Rabbi Abraham Chaim Shag, then a member of the Knesseth (Parliament) representing Mizrachi. The Jerusalem police attacked the demonstrators, the fire brigade used its hoses, there were several injured people, etc. &#8209; quite a "usual" thing in Jerusalem. To my knowledge, Neturei Karta did not even participate in the demonstration, but if they did it was only in a very passive manner. The organizers, as said, belonged to an entirely different background. Yet, during the evening broadcast following that Sabbath, the official communiqué of the Kol Israel Radio stated that the police had been forced to disperse a Neturei Karta demonstration. . .

Conclusions

Summing up, we reach the following conclusions: Neturei Karta is the Jerusalem brand of a world&#8209;wide existing view, shared ideologically by far broader circles around the world. Others may not have the courage to speak up for their own views, in view of their non&#8209;popularity, and in view of the possible damage to their fund&#8209;raising efforts. Neturei Karta may use sharper language, they may go to extremes in demonstrating their view, but the view&#8209;itself is by far not confined to the ranks of Neturei Karta. If there exists a difference between Neturei Karta and other groups holding similar views - it is in the deeper attachment, in the more ardent love for the soil of the Holy Land by which Neturei Karta are distinct.

Whether or not the self&#8209;assumed title of "Guardians of the City" has been a wise choice, one thing remains certain: They are not giving up their watchful guard over their mother&#8209;city of Jerusalem

* Yahadus Hatorah Vehamadinah; Jerusalem, 1959 (shortly to be published in English in London).

1991 interview with Patrick Harrington of Third Way Publications, London, United Kingdom

This interview between Rabbi Beck and Patrick Harrington was first conducted in 1991. The views expressed do not necessarilly reflect those of Third Way but we have decided to republish the interview as a means to advance understanding and because we have great respect for Rabbi Beck.

PH: Could you first explain what Neturei Karta is? Neturei Karta was not founded as an official organization. Neturei Karta is a general name which the world has given to those who are opposed to Zionism. In order to understand this topic, we have to understand what Judaism is and what Zionism is. Those jewish people throughout the world who oppose Zionism have been given the name Neturei Karta.

PH: What for you then is the definition and essential nature of a jewish? The definition of Judaism is that jewish people have received the Torah from Mount Sinai. They handed over the Torah from one generation to the next. This is the only possible definition of Judaism. There is no other definition.

PH:So then, a jewish essentially is one who upholds the given Law? The Torah? One hundred per cent!

PH: What is your attitude to the Reform Movement? The Reform Movement has left Ultimate Truth.

PH: How would you define Zionism? Zionism is a relatively new movement which is based upon a heretical denial of Judaism. It has succeeded in recent years in being able to fool a large section of the Jewish community into following its ways.

PH: In what way would you say that Zionism is heretical? An adequate answer to this question would take a lot of time. I will attempt to answer briefly. It should be clear that a truly adequate answer would take a long time.

Zionism is heresy. If we examine the deeds and the actions of the Zionists we can see that they are an irreligious group which attempts to enforce irreligiousity upon all those who come in contact with them. For example, their courts of law are based upon non-Torah sources. Practically speaking, we see that they are irreligious and they force irreligiousity although it must be noted that in Israel one finds a Ministry of Religion and one also encounters people who refer to themselves as 'religious Zionists'. This fact should not blind us to the central fact that the purpose of Zionism and its essential character was to deny religion and to go away from religion. The fact that there are signs of religion in the Zionist government is simply a tactic which they use. It is an appendage to their true self which is anti-religion.

As we see in the writings of the Zionists themselves, their purpose was to construct a new image of the Jewish people - to create a new Jewish people. Their goal was to change a people who were constituted on the basis of faith and Torah and to substitute for that a people who are free from both faith and Torah. This does not necessarily mean that they would actively try to destroy religion but merely by saying that religion is a matter of personal conscience - that each person can decide for themselves whether or not to obey the religion?

That religion becomes a private affair. By so saying this, they have destroyed the intrinsic character of the Jewish people, that character being an acceptance of Torah.

We find that they refer in their writings to 'freedom' and 'tolerance' so that their State or in their conception of the Jewish people a jewish would have a right to accept or reject religion. In fact in the history of the Zionist State we see an active attempt to destroy religion.

PH: In what way have they tried actively to destroy religion In Israel today? The hatred towards religion and towards religious jewish people extends from one end of the country to the other. If we examine the history of the Israeli State we see that each group of immigrants that was brought in from countries such as Morocco, Algeria, Iraq and Iran and today Russia, the government conducts an active campaign to wean them away from the practice of religion. At times it is a violent campaign. Those that tried to stop this government attempt were at times killed. That happened in certain cases. It was not a standard policy. The standard policy was to take jewish people away from Judaism. As a witness to that we see that many organizations that were founded with the express purpose of preventing the government and the Zionists from pulling jewish people away from Judaism. New immigrants have been especially susceptible to what they were trying to do. The existence of these several organizations, not necessarily Neturei Karta, but several organizations that were working to prevent the Zionist attempt to destroy Judaism is proof to what the Zionists were trying to do.

PH: What then is the Zionist opinion of what a jewish is if they have gone away from the definition of someone who accepts the Torah and practices its precepts?

The true definition of a jewish is faith and Torah. Zionism says it is nationalism.

PH: On what do they base this claim to nationalism? In truth they had no basis and they themselves said that they were originating something new. Were it not for certain elements of the religious community that attempted through various devious means to confuse the minds of people it would have been clear that it was completely baseless as far as authentic Jewish sources were concerned.

PH:If the Zionist State does not base its legal system on religious foundations, on what kind of principle does it base its legal system? Is it some kind of Social Contract idea?

Irreligious conceptions of what a State should be.

PH: I have read that the Haskala are seen as the precursors of Zionism by Neturei Karta. Could you explain and expand on that Point? Until now we have been concerned with the practical evil effects of Zionism. I would now like to move over to the more philosophical or the ideological underpinnings of that. The Jewish people are based on an internal conception of who they are. That internal conception is faith. That faith which stretches back to Mount Sinai. There is nothing else amongst jewish people. The only thing that jewish people have is their faith.

The basis of Jewish faith is an inner feeling of godliness. All conceptions of Jewish peoplehood should be based on a sense of God and godliness. The notion of a State or and army of anything of that sort which is not rooted in a traditional religious conception of godliness is a denial of everything that jewish people are supposed to be. It is a naturalistic or a materialistic approach to the Jewish people. It is a denial of Jewish peoplehood. For example, the Torah commands us that our eating and drinking or going about our physical daily activities must be permeated by godliness.

To suggest that Jewish people can engage in a purely naturalistic, deterministic understanding of themselves is to deny the basic central qualities of the Jewish people which are spiritual. Zionism did not only deny the central nature of Judaism which is entirely spiritual but it is also an attempt to change that essential nature by saying that the jewish people are not in their core a spiritual people but merely a material people.

The Haskala or 'Enlightenment' suggested that there was something else of value to the Jewish people besides the spiritual. By so doing it denied this principle we have been emphasising all along. A jewish who believes the Thirteen Principles of the Jewish faith which were codified by Maimonides and which have a long history of being the thirteen essential dogmas of the Jewish religion, is considered a part of the community of Israel. A person who denies those thirteen principles has placed himself outside that community.

PH: Who were the main thinkers involved with the Enlightenment tradition and in what period did they put forth such views? The first one that we can mention was Moses Mendelsohn approximately two hundred years ago. This was a time when the jaws were first emerging from a period of persecution and ghettoisatlon. When they left the ghettoes they thought that the freedom that they sere now getting could also become a freedom from religion, from the Torah.

The basic problem with the Enlightenment was that there was an element of perfection arid self-improvement that was not spiritual. Therefore the emphasis that jewish people should study secular wisdom, secular knowledge was a fundamental principle of the Enlightenment. Now the problem with that was not the study itself for there had always been jewish people who had studied 'worldly wisdom'. The point was that they were saying that this 'worldly wisdom' was a missing element, that there was something missing in Torah and in a spiritual conception of a jewish. For a jewish to think that there is perfection outside of godliness is heresy. The Enlightenment began by saying that there is something other than spiritual perfection. The tie-in with Zionism now becomes clear in that the Enlightenment was emphasising that man's perfection is Man.

Zionism is the same thing, not by saying that the perfection of man is study or enlightenment but by saying that the perfection of man lies in national salvation. Both of these are manmade suggestions that there are other forms of perfection and fulfillment besides the spiritual. What Zionism said was not so much that the Torah should not be observed but that true value lay in nationalism. The Torah could be an appendage to nationalism but that 'the real' essential fulfillment of Judaism was nationalism.

PH: How far were the Zionist thinkers influenced by the nationalist climate in Europe at that time? It is not a question of influence, it was precisely the same process taking place. At that period in time there was a tremendous sense of self-determination. The Zionists mistakenly compared themselves to these other nations that were then involved in self-determination and nationalism.

The fact that we note that there are some Torah observing jewish people that do adhere to Zionism can be explained by the fact that the Zionist denial of who the jewish is not necessarily a physical, technical denial but at times a spiritual denial, so that by postulating that there is something for a jewish other than fulfillment in the Torah but by not trying to uproot It, Zionism was capable of conning a certain number of observant jewish people. The thing was not necessarily manifest In action By saying that there is fulfillment for jewish people in nationalism they were denying the basic foundation of Judaism. Since they were not doing this in action they were capable of deceiving Torah observers as well.

PH: In the early stages, how far was Zionism a majority view within the Jewish community in the different European countries? The basic principle of Zionism was that jewish people should abandon their traditional thought patterns which were spiritual and adopt completely new ones. It is conceivable that large sections of the Jewish people could continue to observe the Torah and yet become infected with the Zionist notion that there is something else beside Torah. I want to keep hammering away at this point that although a jewish can remain observant, in his heart-of-hearts he will have abandoned Torah because he will have given something else to value.

For a jewish there can be nothing else of value. Conceivably one could go on being observant and one could think that one has the proper dogmas and yet have missed this basic point. Historically it did not happen and it would not have been possible for Zionism to grow amongst these segments of the Jewish people that were devoted to Torah and the traditional ways. It could not have grown. It could not have started out.

At the time that the 'Jewish State' was established that new establishment was a violation of the Three Talmudic Oaths which prohibited the Jewish people from forcefully ending their exile. Even before the State came into fruition, the mere thought that this was something that Jewish people should engage in was already a denial of the basics of faith. At the time when Zionism began the Torah leaders of the Jewish community opposed Zionism with fiery opposition. This was with the exception of a handful who for whatever reason went along with it. Because those leaders understood the way that it denied the essential spiritual nature of the Jewish people, it was almost unanimous and forthright opposition. After both world wars and poverty and suffering which Jewish people underwent, people began to become confused and began to feel that there might be salvation through this means.

PH:What is the nature of the relationship of anti-Semitism in the development of Zionism? I cannot explain the root of anti-Semitism because I am Jewish. Zionism itself is the greatest enemy of the Jewish people. It has caused untold suffering to the Jewish people. The extent that Zionism caused anti-Semitism is a secondary point. The major point is that Zionism has created havoc amongst the jewish people themselves.

Besides the fact that Zionism is a spiritual threat to the Jewish people, the early Zionists actually wrote that it would be profitable for the Jewish people to have anti-Semitism. They wrote that we should actually try to encourage anti-Semitism to force the jewish people to opt for Zionism. This is the connection. Anti-Semites in Europe actually took Zionist writings which emphasised Jewish 'differentness' and used these writings as an excuse for their anti-Semitism. There was a practical connection as well as the spiritual connection.

There is no doubt that the sufferings which the Jewish people endure are spiritual sufferings that God imposes on them for various sins. One of the punishments for transgressing the Three Oaths mentioned above that the jewish people were to be sworn By God not to rebel against the nations and visit to re-establish their nationhood by military might - was that God said that he would allow the jewish people to be slaughtered. He would allow their flesh, so speak, to become open to anyone to attack them, so certainly there was a connection in that sense between anti-Semitism, Nazi persecution etc. Because jewish people having transgressed these oaths thereby left themselves to such persecution.

PH: How far did anti-Semitism In Europe contribute to the change in the attitude of the majority of the Jewish population towards Zionism and lead them to see Zionism as some sort of solution? Certainly the suffering endured by these people between 1940 and 1945 was capable of confusing them. It led them to believe that their salvation might be obtained through naturalistic means. Here we can see the difference between the Zionist conception of Judaism and the Torah conception of Judaism. The Zionist conception would say. 'The reason that we suffered between 1940 end 1945 was because we were incapable of defending ourselves properly, we had not gotten our act together, we were weak and we should be strong.' Whereas the Torah conception would say, 'People have suffered because of their sins. It is art act of Divine Providence. Search out these sins which have caused that Suffering', here we see a very distinct difference in the reactions of traditional jewish people and Zionists.

PH: Why was Zionism appealing to a section of the Jewish population if they were inculcated with respect for the Torah? What led them towards Zionism?The combination of the suffering and the fact that at certain points in history the Evil Powers in the world become powerful enough to be able to snatch certain souls. There are certain points in history where spiritual uncleanliness is capable of triumph. The War also has to be emphasised. The tremendous destruction of the Jewish people made people, even those who were brought up in a Torah environment, susceptible to this. They were looking for something to prevent this from happening again. A certain percentage of the strong personalities who had led the prewar generation had been killed during the war. A lot of the truly learned Torah leadership no longer existed.

PH: What then should be the attitude of a jewish towards Zionism and the State of Israel? There must be utter and total disdainful rejection of Zionism and the Zionist State.

PH: If the jewish people are not to have a homeland or nation-state of their own and if they cannot further that state through material means what should Jewish attitudes be towards the countries that they are living within? Not only what the Jewish response should be but what is the fact the traditional response of Torah jewish people today is a response of total loyalty to the countries in which they find themselves, total patriotism to the countries in which they find themselves because this is in fact the commandment of God and the commandment of the Torah that jewish people should behave in that way.

PH: Why then do some feel that there is a tradition of that not being communicated to the [Jewish] people in many lands? In European countries that doesn't seem to have been communicated. Those 'quiet jewish people' who are obedient to the Torah and to God have this position. Unfortunately they are not loud and the louder jewish people have made this impression [of disloyalty] and anti-Semites are predisposed to take these 'loud jewish people' and to emphasise them and not to emphasise the silent masses.

PH: Essentially then the Zionist nationalism is based on a denial of the essential nature of what a jewish is in the religious conception? It's a strange sort of nationalism that denies the actual thing that defines a nation in the first place! This is very difficult for Europeans to understand, so perhaps you could enlarge on that point. The second point is if they are on the one hand using a religious definition as they seem to be basing many of their arguments to be a nation on an implied acceptance of religion, this is perhaps one of the factors which creates anti-Semitism because people see a strange connection, They think 'what is this definition? Is there some racial element to it? Not stated, but which is implicit because they are not going for the religious but asserting the right to be seen as a notion and people have it in their minds, 'What is the underlying principle? is it a racial thing? The essential nature of Judaism or nationalism?

PH: Firstly I'm asking whether Judaism and Zionism are essentially contradictory. Is it denial of the very thing that defines a jewish and how can gentiles understand that? We can understand this singularly strong notion that a people by denying their very essence constitute themselves as a people by understanding that the Zionists themselves are to be viewed as the lowest element among the people. We're not talking about a middle element or an upper element amongst a people beginning a movement. We're talking about those who deny Judaism, people who throughout the history of the movement have been willing to use Jewish blood as the oil to grease the tires of their movement.

They've always been willing to kill and be killed jewish people and other peoples. We're talking about a lower element, so the fact that a lower element sought a definition which was a denial of the essentials of Judaism is not surprising at all.

Not only are they lower element among the people but the fact that tray were able to construct this apparatus of a State was very alluring and although it was based upon the denial of Judaism, the attractive apparatus of statehood was successful in blinding the eyes of people.

Regarding the previous point about Zionism and anti-Semitism. Firstly, anti-Semitism, amongst jewish people, was always regarded as punishment from God for our sins. Anti-Semitism appears to be an, irrational thing so clearly this is proof that it is providential. It's from God - a punishment from God for our sins. Secondly, Zionists did do things which clearly incited anti-Semitism. immoral things, aggressive things in opposition to England like killing soldiers and similarly now with the Palestinians.

(Interjection from colleague of Rabbi Beck) I'm from Palestine you know?I was born in Jerusalem, many generations of my family lived in Jerusalem and lived together with Arabs in peace. Hatred from the Arabs began in response to Zionism at that time.

PH: What is the origin of anti-Zionism within Neturei Karta and of the name 'Neturei Karta'? There was a time in the 1920s in which Zionist agitation had led to a tremendous degree of Arab anti-Semitism. There was a point in which it was almost impossible to walk out in tile streets of Jerusalem - the Arabs were that interested in killing or injuring any jewish they saw. At that time the anti Zionist jewish people decided that the proper response to this Arab violence and hatred was to go to a printer and print up a brief Talmudic passage which follows:

"When Resh Lakish [who was one of the talmudic sages] came to a town he asked. 'Who are the guardians of the city?' The people replied, "The showman, the military. Resh Lakish said. 'They're the guardians of the city? They're the destroyers of the city! The true guardians of the city are the pious people who are engaged in prayer'. The name 'Neturei Karta' means 'guardians of live city', 'Neturei' means 'guardian'. 'Karta' means 'city'.

They wanted in the Twenties to take this Talmudic passage, have it printed and plastered on the walls of Jerusalem without any commentary at all. Just this one passage. They went from printer to printer and they were unable to find anybody at that time who would print this passage that would be put up on the walls. At that time the response was always, 'we've got to fight', so all the printers were unable to print this passage until they finally found one somewhere.

The response of the Zionists was so negative towards this passage that it became adopted as their [anti-Zionists'] symbolic passage and hence the name 'Neturei Karta'. Rabbi Blau who was one of the founders and chief ideologues of this movement actually told me this story. He was one of those who continued on with the anti-Zionist tradition from that time.

PH: Explain the attitude of Neturei Karta to the Palestinian people. How would it be possible for Jewish people to live within Israel and conduct their religious duties and prayers and so on and have reverence for the Holy Sites but also have a relationship with the Palestinian people without having a State? Since authentic Jewish people are opposed to the notion of a State altogether, there would be no problem whatsoever in jewish people living in the area of Israel and Palestine. For hundreds of years there were Jewish communities of Prayer and study in the area that the State of Israel rules today. Those communities lived in complete peace with the surrounding Arabs. Not only in Israel, but also throughout the Arab world, traditionally jewish people and Arabs lived together in peace. There were other lands where there was conflict. The Arab lands were completely peaceful for the jewish people. That was the way it was in Palestine and that could continue in the future. There would be communities of jewish people that would be interested in prayers and study and that could be under a Palestinian State in absolute peace and harmony - as it has always traditionally been in Jerusalem and other cities in Israel.

(Interjection from colleague of Rabbi Beck) The hatred between jewish people and Arabs in Palestine was caused by Zionism. This did not exist beforehand. I cart testify to this myself. My grandfather lived peacefully with Arabs 150 years before the Zionist movement. After this the whole problem was created by the Zionist movement. We lived in a neighbourhood that was full of Arabs. We would borrow things from each other and there was no problem whatsoever.

PH: Does the Neturei Karta co-operate with any Palestinian groups? I want to emphasise that we are not limiting 'Natural Karta' to one organization. We are describing the tendency of authentic Jewry to fight against and oppose Zionism. We don't want to limit it to one group or name. Their approach is friendliness to all peoples of the world. What they can say is there should not be a 'Jewish State'. Exactly what the parameters of the alternative should be is not their business. That's not their role to say. For example if two lawyers are working on separate cases, one lawyer should go about advancing his own case. Whoever it belongs to should work out who it belongs to Clearly the Zionist State is wrong. What the alternative should be is not my place to advocate. Jewish people who oppose Zionism have traditionally participated together with the Palestinians in protests against Zionist atrocities and so forth. We are sympathetic to them and their suffering.

We recognize their right to rule. If we examine this in a simply proper and ethical way they are the legitimate rulers of the country. So if pressed to answer what is our political position it is that they are the rightful rulers of the Country. It clearly belongs to them. The gentlemanly approach would be to have it given back to them, but exactly to whom, to what faction, what group does not concern me. It is clear to me that if it had not been for Zionism the Palestinian people would never have been opposed to religious Jewish settlements in the area known today as the State of Israel.

PH:Explain the relevance of the three Talmudic oaths? The only possible approach to the problem of the State of Israel which could result in a solution which would not involve suffering and blood spilled by jewish people and others would be the abandonment of the State. Clearly it appears that this is something that they are not going to do. The problem - the cause of the suffering is Zionism and the Zionists.

It is important to emphasise tie distinction between a Zionist and the conflict between the Jewish faith and Zionism. Zionism is the cause of the hatred between jewish people and Arabs.

The Three Oaths are as follows - Firstly that Jewish people should not rebel against the nations of the world; Secondly that they should not engage in any actions which will accelerate the coming of the End of Days and the Third is that they should not go as a mass group to Israel. These are the Three Oaths that were placed upon the Jewish people. Obviously Zionism is in direct conflict with these Three Oaths.

PH: What essential message would you like to give to non-Jewish Europeans in how they should respond to the various things you trade said? As a message to European peoples, I emphasise that Judaism is defined as a religion - a spiritual affair based upon faith and the Torah. This is the sole interest of the Jewish people - to pursue their spiritual life and their spiritual destiny. They are in no way a politically aggressive people, they have no devices or intentions upon any other people.

I ask that European peoples do not confuse and attribute to the Jewish people the actions of Zionists. These actions are rejected with utter disdain by the Jewish people. Traditional Jewish people are enraged by the theft of the term "Israel" by the Zionists. Non-jewish people should realize that this was a theft. The Zionists stole this name and there is no connection whatsoever between the actions of the Zionists and traditional Jewish people. European peoples should view these as two separate groups and not attribute the thoughts of one to the other.

-The people of Israel have existed for thousands of years.-It has its own particular, essential, nature.-The Torah is the source of its essential nature.-Without Torah and faith there is no people of Israel.-Whoever denies the Torah and the Faith is no longer part of the people of Israel.-The purpose of the People of Israel in this world is Divine service.-Their salvation is occupation in Divine Service.

2) WHAT IS ZIONISM ?

-Zionism is a new thing.-It has only existed for a century.-Zionism redefines the true essential nature of the people of Israel, and substitutes for it a completely contradictory and opposite character.- a materialistic worldly nation.-Their misfortune is lack of what other nations have. i.e. a state and army.-Their salvation is possession of a state and army etc.- This is clearly speed out in the circles of Zionist though, and among the leaders of the Zionist state, That through changing the nature and character of the people of Israel and by changing their way of thinking they can set before the People of Israel "their salvation." -- a state and an army.

3) THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL OPPOSE THIS FOR 4 REASONS

FIRST - Because this is diametrically opposed and completely contradictory to the true essence and foundation of the people of Israel, as it explained above. Because the only time that the people of Israel where permitted to have a state were two thousand years ago when the Glory of the Creator was upon us. And likewise in the future when the Glory of the Creator will once more be revealed, and the whole world will serve Him. Then He Himself (without any human effort or force of arms) will grant us a kingdom founded on Divine Service.

However, a wordily state, like those possessed by other peoples, is contradictory to the true essence of the People of Israel. Whoever calls this the salvation of Israel shows that he denies the essence of the People of Israel, and substituted another nature, a worldly materialistic nature, and therefore sets before them, a worldly materialistic "salvation." And the means of achieving this "salvation" is also worldly and materialistic i.e. to organize land and army.

However, the true salvation of the People of Israel is to draw close to the Creator. And this is not done by organization and force of arms. Rather, it is done by occupation to Torah and good deeds.

Judaism and its opposition to Zionism: What is Judaism and who are the jewish people?

Judaism is a system of belief and practices derived from the Torah, and the jewish people are the people who hold those beliefs and follow those practices. Judaism sees all of history as the Almighty’s plan. The history of the Jewish people has a specific format outlined in the words of the Torah which includes the Old Testament, the words of the prophets, the Talmud etc. There was a time when jewish people had a land, a monarchy and a Temple in Jerusalem. When the Temple was destroyed and Jerusalem was conquered by the Romans almost two thousand years ago, the Jewish exile began. jewish people are still waiting for that exile to end with the messianic era, when all of mankind will unite in the service of the Almighty.

According to Jewish belief, the jewish people did not lose the Temple and Jerusalem because of their own military weakness. Rather, it was the Almighty’s will that the Jewish people be exiled and spread around the world as an atonement for their sins, and in order to spread the Almighty’s message to all the nations of the world. Therefore, it is clear that Jewish military force cannot end the exile; the exile will end only when the Almighty sees fit to end it and send His redeemer. It is for this Divine redemption that the Jewish people have always waited – not for any sort of conquest of the Holy Land, or opportunity to return to it.

The Jewish view of exile and redemption is legally expressed in the famous Talmudic passage of the Three Oaths, under which the jewish people are bound during their exilic existence. The Almighty put the jewish people under oath: 1. not to return en-mass to the Holy Land, 2. not to rebel against the nations of the world, 3.not to attempt to end the exile with their own actions.

During exile, jewish people were commanded by the prophet Jeremiah (29:7), "Seek the peace of the city where I have exiled you, and pray to the Almighty on its behalf, for with its peace you will have peace." jewish people were to be loyal to their governments and not entertain any thoughts of rebellion.

A large part of the Jewish people spent centuries of Judaism and its opposition to Zionism their exile living under Muslim governments of North Africa and the Middle East, including Palestine. The relations between the jewish people and Muslims in these countries were historically very good. The jewish people were loyal citizens, and their religion, culture and scholarly tradition flourished.

only a small minority such as ultra orthodox groups like Natira carta and Satmar.

Even they live in the Zionist state.

It is true the secular Zionists are far from the path of truth in many ways, and have done many bad things

Religious Zionism has existed in all generations since destruction of the second temple.

The return to the land of Israel has always been a focus of

Jewish meditation (prayer) in the tradition we have received from the Biblical prophets.

It is a Holy thing for Jewish people to live in the Holy Land and the Complete fulfillment of most of the commandment of the Torah are dependent on this.

This is all part of the Divine plan

The Maharol of prague wrote by the holy spirit hundreds of years ago that the Jewish people would return to the Holy Land and at that time a secular jewish goverment would rule, that would be eventually replace by the Messianic Kingdom.

During the Middle Ages, the Jewish people suffered many a time from fanatically religious governments who expelled or killed whoever refused to adhere to their religious belief. In the modern era, the Jewish people suffer due to the worldâ€™s misunderstanding of the distinction between Judaism and Zionism.

Judaism is a religion, not a race. Throughout history, whoever joined the Jewish religion was called a jewish, no matter what his race, and whoever abandoned the Holy Torah was not considered a jewish. In fact, the biggest names in Jewish history were converts or descendants of converts: King David, Zipporah, Rabbi Akiva, Rabbi Meir, Shmaya and Avtalyon.

The proponents of Zionism, for their own political and financial advantage, have transformed the Jewish religion into a race. Similarly, they have taken the Torah, a book of Divine law which teaches fairness, peace and piety, and transformed it into a vehicle for their political goals, a source for their claims to a piece of land. These claims took their latest form this week, when, to our sorrow, the Zionist falsification was brought to the worldâ€™s eyes by the media.

President Bush is visiting the State of Israel, and several rabbis of the extremist Zionist settler community have penned a letter to the President, asking him to stop putting pressure on the Israeli leadership to make land concessions to the Palestinian Authority.

The letter read in part:

"It is totally presumptuous that while the US fights terror, it pressures Israel to make concessions to terrorists! In the name of the people of Israel, the Land of Israel, the Torah of Israel and the G-d of Israel, we demand that his honor the president cease the pressure on the State to hand lands to the Arabsâ€¦ Honorable President, you must not be remembered in history as Nebuchadnezzar and Titus who destroyed Jerusalem. You must surely remember that American does not benefit from causing damage, Heaven forbid, to the Jewish people and its land. If you help the wholeness of our holy land, we promise you and your country endless blessings."

The writers of this letter call themselves rabbis and speak in the name of the Jewish religion, but the world must not allow itself to be fooled. They are radical politicians and militants advancing their own agenda, for which they are distorting the Holy Torah and by doing so they are jeopardizing the Jewish people in the entire world as the Zionists did in the Second World War.

We look forward to the Messianic Era, when Jerusalem will be "a house of prayer for all nations" (Isaiah 56:7)

It was never about a race, it's a nation of 12 tribes and their companions, without land-lines,well until 1948..

A nation refers to a community of people who share a common language, culture, ethnicity, descent, and/or history.In this definition, a nation has no physical borders. However, it can also refer to people who share a common territory and government irrespective of their ethnic make-up.In international relations, nation can refer to a country or sovereign state. [link to en.wikipedia.org] [link to www.britannica.com]

it represents a twisted opinion held by a small minority of religious extremists

WHO THEMSELVES LIVE IN THE LAND OF ISREAL

The return to zion by the jewish people is a Biblical ideajewish people from all walks of life have strived to return to the land of Israel ever since their forced exile by the Romansmore than 2000 years ago

1740-1750 - Thousands immigrate to Eretz Yisrael under the influence of Messianic predictions. Among the immigrants is Rabbi Moses Haim Luzzatto (1707-1746), the renowned author of Messilat Yesharim, and Kabbalist Rabbi Haim ben Attar, author of the landmark Or Hahayim commentary. The large immigration greatly increases the size and strength of the Jewish Settlement in Eretz Yisrael. (Morgenstern, Arie. “Dispersion and Longing for Zion, 1240-1840”. Azure.) 1740Ottoman authorities invite Rabbi Haim Abulafia (1660-1744), renowned Kabbalist and Rabbi of Izmir, to come to the Holy Land. Rabbi Abulafia is to rebuild the city of Tiberias, which has lain desolate for some 70 years. The city’s revival is seen by many as a sign of the coming of the Messiah. (Morgenstern, Arie. “Dispersion and Longing for Zion, 1240-1840”. Azure.) 1740 Rabbi Abraham Gershon of Kitob (d. 1760) is the first immigrant of the Hassidic Aliyah. He is a respected Talmudic scholar, mystic, and brother-in-law of Rabbi Israel Baal Shem Tov (founder of the Hassidic movement). Rabbi Abraham first settles in Hebron. Later, he relocates to Jerusalem at the behest of its residents. (Encyclopedia Judaica, vol. 9, pp. 514. Gershon of Kitov) 1742 Aliyah of Hassidim to Tiberias, led by Rabbi Menahem Mendel of Peremyshlyny (b. 1728). This is the first organized Hassidic Aliyah, and begins a period marked by a number of Hassidic Aliyot. (Encyclopedia Judaica vol. 11 pp. 1309) 1764 Aliyah of Hassidic leaders. Rabbi Menahem Mendel of Vitebsk (1730-1788) and Avraham Kalisk lead a group of 300 immigrants. The immigrants settle in Tiberias, where Rabbi Menahem Mendel oversees the building of a Hassidic synagogue. (Encyclopedia Judaica, vol. 9, pp. 514) 1777 1799

Napoleon Bonaparte publishes a proclamation: “Rightful heirs of Palestine ... Take over that which has been conquered and…remain its master, to maintain it against all comers.” Many jewish people in Israel and Europe receive the proclamation with joy. ( - 36 –35, Napoleon)

1799 Rabbi Moshe Sofer (known as Hatam Sofer, 1762-1839) admonishes the jewish people of the Diaspora, “Go and travel now”. This occurs on the seventh day of the Jewish month of Av, four months after Napoleon’s proclamation. With great passion, he discusses his high hopes for a nearing Redemption, and hints at the importance of taking practical measures to hasten its coming. ( - 43) 1800

The population of Eretz Yisrael is 300,000, of which 5,000 are jewish people. Most of the jewish people are concentrated in Jerusalem, Safed, Tiberias and Hebron.(Encyclopedia Judaica, vol. 9, pp. 293) 1806

Napoleon I revokes his support of a Jewish homeland and equal rights for jewish people. After coming under a strong antisemitic influence in Pressburg, he gathers Jewish leaders from across his empire in order to amend Jewish law and to abolish Jewish nationalism. ( - 44)First wave of disciples of Rabbi Eliyahu of Vilna (known as the Vilna Gaon, 1720-1797) arrives in the Holy Land, led by Rabbi Menachem Mendel of Sheklov (d. 1827). The new immigrants journey to Tiberias; seeing the strong Hassidic community there, they relocate to Safed, where they foster a warm relationship with the Sephardi community. (Ya’ari, Avraham. “Talmidei Hagra Vehishtarshutam Ba’aretz”. Encyclopedia Judaica, vol. 11, pp. 1310) 1808

HebronSecond wave of the Vilna Gaon’s students comes to Eretz Yisrael, led by his chief disciple, Rabbi Saadya Ben Rabbi Natan Neta of Vilna. 1809Third wave of the Vilna Gaon’s disciples immigrates to Safed, among them Rabbi Israel Sheklov (d. 1839). A community of 150 jewish people of Lithuanian origin (known as Perushim) greets them. (Encyclopedia Judaica, vol. 9, pp. 1059. Ya’ari, Avraham. “Talmidei Hagra Vehishtarshutam Ba’aretz”.) 1809Agricultural land is bought by students of the Vilna Gaon in the spirit of the “Natural Redemption”. Flourishing agriculture is seen as a sign of Redemption, and enables the jewish people to fulfill the Biblical commandments pertaining to agricultural work in the Land of Israel. (Morgenstern, Arie. “Dispersion and Longing for Zion, 1240-1840, 1240-1840”. Azure.) 1810

The shill antisemites must get overtime for working on their pope's christ mass.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 7609949

Donot let the jewish steal your language. Anti is a word that means instead of. We in America are antisemites. we want an american future "instead" of a semitic future.Past generations knew you could not trust anything to the jewish people or you would lose it. They have plundered and robbed each nation that has hosted them. They were kicked out of 109 nations and cities.