TerrifyingDaedricFoe wrote:Aye. He's the head of the Anvil guild hall and the main candidate for Archmage.

Fun! Will you be the one writing Traven's dialogue and fleshing out his personality?

Other concerns: 1. Won't there be one or two other Master Wizards throughout Cyrodiil? 2. What if Player is Master Wizard? 3. What if Player is already Arch-Mage? This still doesn't make sense to me. I mean, I get why Bethesda allowed you to become archmage in Vvardenfell, because they never intended on the game being expanded through the entire continent of Tamriel. But now it poses a glitch in lore. There could always be an external mod that doesn't allow you to become archmage in Vvardenfell.

Alebre already had this discussion with me on the previous page. I'm sure there's supposed to only be one Archmage in the entire Empire, as stated in the second paragraph here:

"The Mages Guild was led by an Arch-Mage, and guided by the Council of Mages, made up of five archmagisters (including the Arch-Mage). The Arch-Mage and the Council of Mages were headquartered at the guild's Arcane University in the Imperial City. The Council decided important Guild policies.... In addition, guild halls existed in most cities in Tamriel, each of which was run by a local guildmagister."

Each game has an arch mage because each game has only one province as its own world. Had Bethesda made a game with the whole of Tamriel, they would probably have you go to Cyrodiil to become arch mage.

I'm thinking, if staying true to lore and TESIII actually had all nine provinces in it, Master Wizard would be the highest rank you could achieve in each guild in all provinces. The Master Wizard would probably be given the title of Archmagister, the person who would run the local guild hall. Unless there were two or more Master Wizards, then they'd have to decide on who would be in charge of the guild hall.So there are probably hundreds of archmagisters, maybe thousands, throughout Tamriel, but only one Archmage and 4 other elite Archmagisters in the Imperial City Arcane University. These 5 people comprised the Council of Mages.

How does all that sound, assuming that all nine provinces were already designed and implemented in TESIII?

"If one is to understand the arcane arts, one must study all its aspects, not just the dogmatic narrow view of the Mages Guild."

Mind, that entire paragraph on UESP is unsourced, and likely at least somewhat speculative - I don't think the exact hierarchy of the Mages Guild was ever explained in-game. The details surrounding the Mages Guild quests on Vvardenfell show that Trebonius Artorius was dispatched to Vvardenfell to get him out of the way - a kind of backhanded promotion - and that his position wholly depends on what his superiors in Cyrodiil say. Nevertheless, he is called an Arch-mage, and the letter informing him of his retirement even states he is allowed to keep the title of Arch-Mage (a letter which, by the way, is signed by Chancellor Ocato). It appears as if the rank of Arch-Mage is more like an honorific, rather than an indication of rank in the Guild. Either way, the game seems to suggest that both central and regional leaders are called Archmages, while still maintaining a strict sense of hierarchy.

Infragris wrote:Mind, that entire paragraph on UESP is unsourced, and likely at least somewhat speculative - I don't think the exact hierarchy of the Mages Guild was ever explained in-game. The details surrounding the Mages Guild quests on Vvardenfell show that Trebonius Artorius was dispatched to Vvardenfell to get him out of the way - a kind of backhanded promotion - and that his position wholly depends on what his superiors in Cyrodiil say. Nevertheless, he is called an Arch-mage, and the letter informing him of his retirement even states he is allowed to keep the title of Arch-Mage (a letter which, by the way, is signed by Chancellor Ocato). It appears as if the rank of Arch-Mage is more like an honorific, rather than an indication of rank in the Guild. Either way, the game seems to suggest that both central and regional leaders are called Archmages, while still maintaining a strict sense of hierarchy.

I don't see why we can't come up with new lore that expands upon what Bethesda already has regarding the hierarchy of the Mages guild, seeing as how Bethesda never had it clearly mapped out.

We could start simply by going from the bottom to the top and see where it takes us.

All of the above guild stewards (guildmasters) report to Trebonius Artorius as the next up in command. I'm assuming mainland Morrowind also has an archmage since TR is making their mages guild a separate faction. So are there archmages for each province? I'm inclined to think so. I don't like the idea of making Vvardenfell separate from mainland Morrowind but that's a TR issue, not P:C.

I'm still in belief that had Bethesda, theoretically, made all of Tamriel in one game, that there would be one archmage for each province. Trebonius would still be archmage running the show in the Vivec branch, but he would also oversee all other branches on mainland Morrowind as well. Mainland Morrowind would have its various branches spread out with their own guildmasters, some of whom would be Warlock, Wizard or maybe Master Wizard. But all guildmasters would report to Trebonius as the next up in the chain of command.

Same structure would apply to Cyrodiil, Skyrim and all the other provinces of Tamriel.

Origins of Mages Guild states that each hall is run by a guild magister, but it is compared to a chimera (mythological creature) and that there's lots of politics and arguing, etc.... and that the Council of Mages has 6 people in it, including the central Archmage. The lore version of the mages guild says there are five in the Council of Mages. UESP lore section obviously has an error here, and it should be six, not five, archmages on the council. I presume the Council is strictly archmages with one central archmage.

So each province would have its own archmage who would preside over all the guildhalls in that province, with "archmage" being somewhat of an honorary title, as the real supreme archmage would reside in Arcane University, amongst his 5 other archmages on the Council. Going with that route, there would be eight archmages throughout Tamriel who report to the Council of Mages.

I think having all mages guilds in Cyrodiil with guildmasters at ranks Master Wizard, Wizard, Warlock, or even lower, would be the correct way to go about it. The only arch mages in Cyrodiil should be the six people on the Council in the Imperial City's Arcane University.

"If one is to understand the arcane arts, one must study all its aspects, not just the dogmatic narrow view of the Mages Guild."

Tes96 wrote:I'm assuming mainland Morrowind also has an archmage since TR is making their mages guild a separate faction. So are there archmages for each province? I'm inclined to think so. I don't like the idea of making Vvardenfell separate from mainland Morrowind but that's a TR issue, not P:C.

That's no longer the case. TR is going to unify the Vvardenfell factions with their mainland counterparts.

Tes96 wrote:I think having all mages guilds in Cyrodiil with guildmasters at ranks Master Wizard, Wizard, Warlock, or even lower, would be the correct way to go about it. The only arch mages in Cyrodiil should be the six people on the Council in the Imperial City's Arcane University.

Yeah, I'd go along with that.

SamirA wrote:

Tarius wrote:This is entirely a matter of the Bethstapo that will burst in, yell STOP RIGHT THERE, CRIMINAL SCUM, and C&D us to death if we violate copyright.