Just because they're the movies Lucas wanted to make doesn't make them immune to criticism. To the contrary, it gives us liberty to be more uncompromising in our criticism of the films. If that boring, tedious, crap was Lucas's vision, he needs to get some Lasik or something.

t3knomanser:Just because they're the movies Lucas wanted to make doesn't make them immune to criticism. To the contrary, it gives us liberty to be more uncompromising in our criticism of the films. If that boring, tedious, crap was Lucas's vision, he needs to get some Lasik or something.

Few people are aware of the credit Marcia Lucas received for her editing of Star Wars. George Lucas is like Steven King; once they got too big for their editors, their work suffered for it. (And if anyone has seen Lucas around the people he works with, I can't imagine one of them refusing to allow him to set them on fire with gasoline, let alone criticize an idea).

born_yesterday:George Lucas is like Steven King; once they got too big for their editors, their work suffered for it

An all too common disease among creative types. So many authors and filmmakers have fallen into that trap. You have the rare true genius that thrives on their own vision, but everybody else needs to remember that art is a collaborative effort.

t3knomanser:born_yesterday: George Lucas is like Steven King; once they got too big for their editors, their work suffered for it

An all too common disease among creative types. So many authors and filmmakers have fallen into that trap. You have the rare true genius that thrives on their own vision, but everybody else needs to remember that art is a collaborative effort.

I'm reminded of Terry Gilliam giving in to using CGI in the Imaginarium of Dr. Parnassus, which was an awful movie. Not even Tom Waits could save it.

buntz:Crewmannumber6: The people on that second death star were just honest tradesmen trying to support their families

That was a funny (Clerks) argument until the prequels. Then it was clear the Death Star were built by members of, what would become, the Empire.

If the Geonosins built the first Death Star, it's fair to assume another race, if not more Geonosins, built the second.

The first Death Star was built in orbit over the prison planet Despayre, and was used as the superlaser's test target.

And as far as the contractor argument goes...Even without having to delve into the plethora of EU sources, we see throughout the trilogy droids doing all sorts of work. We see power droids, welding droids, and there's a pretty significant reference to binary load-lifters. With such heavy reliance on automated labor...why would anyone think that the bulk of the construction work was being done by humans? And if Death Star II is supposed to be enough of a secret that "many Bothans died" to secure information of its existence, why would the Empire hire non-military companies to do work in the Endor system? That's almost a guaranteed security risk. The conversation is funny, I'll give them that, but it's an easily refuted argument.

Crewmannumber6:The people on that second death star were just honest tradesmen trying to support their families

Just because Kevin Smith is fat doesn't mean he understands the Star Wars films. By the time the Death Star was at the Battle of Endor, it was "fully operational". It only looked like it wasn't finished. So any innocent contractors wouldn't still be there. Besides which, it was probably common knowledge that the last Death Star blew up an innocent planet for no reason so fark anyone who worked on the new one.

UNC_Samurai:buntz: Crewmannumber6: The people on that second death star were just honest tradesmen trying to support their families

That was a funny (Clerks) argument until the prequels. Then it was clear the Death Star were built by members of, what would become, the Empire.

If the Geonosins built the first Death Star, it's fair to assume another race, if not more Geonosins, built the second.

The first Death Star was built in orbit over the prison planet Despayre, and was used as the superlaser's test target.

And as far as the contractor argument goes...Even without having to delve into the plethora of EU sources, we see throughout the trilogy droids doing all sorts of work. We see power droids, welding droids, and there's a pretty significant reference to binary load-lifters. With such heavy reliance on automated labor...why would anyone think that the bulk of the construction work was being done by humans? And if Death Star II is supposed to be enough of a secret that "many Bothans died" to secure information of its existence, why would the Empire hire non-military companies to do work in the Endor system? That's almost a guaranteed security risk. The conversation is funny, I'll give them that, but it's an easily refuted argument.

With regards to the new series, Hamill explained, "I've only had one creative meeting about the new films, but I do remember saying: 'We've got to find a proper balance between CGI and old-school models.' I want to have a more organic look so that we don't get into Roger Rabbit territory."

Spoken like someone who wasn't actually alive when the original came out. And yes, the original is the one that was released to theaters. Every version released since then is not the original.

fact is that Han DID NOT shoot first in the original version. Han is in fact the ONLY one that shot. Han gunned Greedo down before Greedo had a chance to shoot. Lucas later tried to retcon this and claimed that Greedo always shot first and that you just couldn't tell, but that is a bunch of crap. Also -

t3knomanser:Just because they're the movies Lucas wanted to make doesn't make them immune to criticism. To the contrary, it gives us liberty to be more uncompromising in our criticism of the films. If that boring, tedious, crap was Lucas's vision, he needs to get some Lasik or something.

Did kids (the people he made the movies for) enjoy them? Yep. Then wtf cares what you think? Don't blame him because you're incapable of growing up.

Kids love long talky scenes about intergalactic space politics. Honestly, if those movies are actually for kids, then the idea that their attention spans are shrinking must be a myth. I can't imagine a kid sitting through the whole romance part during Attack of the Clones, let alone any of the stuff in the senate chambers.

Seriously, those movies are too complicated and dull to actually have been made for kids.

devilEther:while I attribute the second Death Star to pure laziness on the part of Lucas, I like to think the Empire built a replica of the original Death Star to defy the terrorists who destroyed the original.

The Death Star was the capstone on Palpatine's plan for him/the Empire to have ultimate power once and for all. Remember that we even saw the blueprints for it in Ep III. It wouldn't make sense for the Empire to never "try again."

Just build another one? Yeah, that's real original. And who's going to give me a loan, jackhole? You? You got an ATM in that torso light bright of yours? Now get your 7'2" asthmatic ass back here, or I'll tell everyone what a little biatch you were over Padamoomay or Pandabear or whatever her name was.

UNC_Samurai:And as far as the contractor argument goes...Even without having to delve into the plethora of EU sources, we see throughout the trilogy droids doing all sorts of work. We see power droids, welding droids, and there's a pretty significant reference to binary load-lifters. With such heavy reliance on automated labor...why would anyone think that the bulk of the construction work was being done by humans? And if Death Star II is supposed to be enough of a secret that "many Bothans died" to secure information of its existence, why would the Empire hire non-military companies to do work in the Endor system? That's almost a guaranteed security risk. The conversation is funny, I'll give them that, but it's an easily refuted argument.

If most of the second Death Star was build by droids, what purpose is sending Vader to speed up construction? Force choking droids doesn't really do much good as far as I can tell.

UNC_Samurai:buntz: Crewmannumber6: The people on that second death star were just honest tradesmen trying to support their families

And as far as the contractor argument goes...Even without having to delve into the plethora of EU sources, we see throughout the trilogy droids doing all sorts of work. We see power droids, welding droids, and there's a pretty significant reference to binary load-lifters. With such heavy reliance on automated labor...why would anyone think that the bulk of the construction work was being done by humans? And if Death Star II is supposed to be enough of a secret that "many Bothans died" to secure information of its existence, why would the Empire hire non-military companies to do work in the Endor system? That's almost a guaranteed security risk. The conversation is funny, I'll give them that, but it's an easily refuted argument.

The Bothans died because Ewoks ate them. Ewoks are some effed up cannibalistic tribal murderers. One of them is actually wearing a Bothan skull for a hat in one of the scenes. And they were about to eat Han and them if Luke hadn't save the day.

Fireproof:devilEther: while I attribute the second Death Star to pure laziness on the part of Lucas, I like to think the Empire built a replica of the original Death Star to defy the terrorists who destroyed the original.

The Death Star was the capstone on Palpatine's plan for him/the Empire to have ultimate power once and for all. Remember that we even saw the blueprints for it in Ep III. It wouldn't make sense for the Empire to never "try again."

It always bugged me that over 30 years or so, the Empire had precisely zero new ideas.

devilEther:while I attribute the second Death Star to pure laziness on the part of Lucas, I like to think the Empire built a replica of the original Death Star to defy the terrorists who destroyed the original.

The second death star was begun or in mid-construction around the time the first one was completed. It's a matter of redundancy in case your original is destroyed or compromised.

INeedAName:UNC_Samurai: buntz: Crewmannumber6: The people on that second death star were just honest tradesmen trying to support their families

And as far as the contractor argument goes...Even without having to delve into the plethora of EU sources, we see throughout the trilogy droids doing all sorts of work. We see power droids, welding droids, and there's a pretty significant reference to binary load-lifters. With such heavy reliance on automated labor...why would anyone think that the bulk of the construction work was being done by humans? And if Death Star II is supposed to be enough of a secret that "many Bothans died" to secure information of its existence, why would the Empire hire non-military companies to do work in the Endor system? That's almost a guaranteed security risk. The conversation is funny, I'll give them that, but it's an easily refuted argument.

The Bothans died because Ewoks ate them. Ewoks are some effed up cannibalistic tribal murderers. One of them is actually wearing a Bothan skull for a hat in one of the scenes. And they were about to eat Han and them if Luke hadn't save the day.

Antimatter:INeedAName: UNC_Samurai: buntz: Crewmannumber6: The people on that second death star were just honest tradesmen trying to support their families

And as far as the contractor argument goes...Even without having to delve into the plethora of EU sources, we see throughout the trilogy droids doing all sorts of work. We see power droids, welding droids, and there's a pretty significant reference to binary load-lifters. With such heavy reliance on automated labor...why would anyone think that the bulk of the construction work was being done by humans? And if Death Star II is supposed to be enough of a secret that "many Bothans died" to secure information of its existence, why would the Empire hire non-military companies to do work in the Endor system? That's almost a guaranteed security risk. The conversation is funny, I'll give them that, but it's an easily refuted argument.

The Bothans died because Ewoks ate them. Ewoks are some effed up cannibalistic tribal murderers. One of them is actually wearing a Bothan skull for a hat in one of the scenes. And they were about to eat Han and them if Luke hadn't save the day.

Dr Dreidel:Fireproof: devilEther: while I attribute the second Death Star to pure laziness on the part of Lucas, I like to think the Empire built a replica of the original Death Star to defy the terrorists who destroyed the original.

The Death Star was the capstone on Palpatine's plan for him/the Empire to have ultimate power once and for all. Remember that we even saw the blueprints for it in Ep III. It wouldn't make sense for the Empire to never "try again."

It always bugged me that over 30 years or so, the Empire had precisely zero new ideas.

But isn't that usually the criticism anytime the bad guy's plan comes within a hair of working, except the heroes get lucky with a one-in-a-million last-ditch shot? Why don't they just do it again and maybe add a safeguard against the same thing happening again (in this particular case, shield or better defend the exhaust port)? It was a good plan, they just got really, really unlucky. So why not do it again, since it will almost certainly succeed the second time?

And the answer, of course, is that it's fiction and if you do the same thing over again you run the real risk of boring your audience. It isn't a lack of imagination on the part of the villains, but on the part of the author.

Gawain:So why not do it again, since it will almost certainly succeed the second time?

Because in the decade between the first one and second one (or was it only 5 years?), the rebels were doing things like getting better weaponry, building a fleet, getting better training, making deals with people like Lando to help out during the Final Assault and basically figuring out how to give the next shot better odds than million-to-one.

The second time, once a battle group made it into the superstructure*, it was all over - the trench in ANH was open on top, allowing for much better protection by mounted turrets and TIE fighters.

soporific:Darth Vader: And "the Force?" Well, that's just microscopic bacteria in your bloodstream called "Midichlorians".Luke Skywalker: Look, if you're not going to take this seriously, I'm out.

/oblig

That's always bugged me. Mostly because the actual movie describes them as symbiotic microscopic organisms that tell us the will of the Force. They are not the Force itself. Then Robot Chicken does that bit, and all the fanboys are all "HURR DURR FORCE IS JUST BACTERIA NOW! LUCAS RAPED MY CHILDHOOD AND RETROACTIVELY RUINED THE OLD MOVIES! WAAAH!"

Palpatine had a galaxy spanning dictatorship with pretty much unlimited resources. Why wouldn't he rebuild the Death Star? People also seem to be forgetting that the thing was supposed to be a trap for the Rebellion. It was a target they couldn't ignore.

"He'll say, 'Oh my god, Dad, Greedo shoots first now!' I'll say, 'Wait, wait, wait. Let's put this in perspective: Who cares?'" ... He concluded by arguing that Lucas had earned the right to make Star Wars films in the manner he wanted. "Those aren't sorta the movies he wanted them to be, they're exactly the movies they wanted to make," said Hamill. "And I'm not gonna criticize them at all."

Mugato:Crewmannumber6: The people on that second death star were just honest tradesmen trying to support their families

Just because Kevin Smith is fat doesn't mean he understands the Star Wars films. By the time the Death Star was at the Battle of Endor, it was "fully operational". It only looked like it wasn't finished. So any innocent contractors wouldn't still be there. Besides which, it was probably common knowledge that the last Death Star blew up an innocent planet for no reason so fark anyone who worked on the new one.

devilEther:I read an interview with Lucas where he admitted that he equipped Sam Jackson's character with a purple lightsaber as a tribute to the "black people love grape soda" stereotype.

From wikipedia:

Also, according to an interview on the on May 13, 2005, Mace's purple (some actually say 'crimson') was a personal request from Jackson to Lucas as a for appearing in the films, as well as a way of making the character unique and easily distinguishable. Jackson, an avid Star Wars fan, especially wanted his own color so that his character could be easily spotted and recognizable in the final battle scene of amid all of the other Jedi. This decision on Master Windu's lightsaber color may well have changed the idea of what a Jedi lightsaber should look like with regard to its color.

LL316:t3knomanser: Just because they're the movies Lucas wanted to make doesn't make them immune to criticism. To the contrary, it gives us liberty to be more uncompromising in our criticism of the films. If that boring, tedious, crap was Lucas's vision, he needs to get some Lasik or something.

Did kids (the people he made the movies for) enjoy them? Yep. Then wtf cares what you think? Don't blame him because you're incapable of growing up.

People still use this argument? It should be pretty obvious that all six of them were meant to appeal to all ages. And it should also be pretty obvious that kids aren't as good as adults at discerning what's good and what's crap.