News: White Sox general manager Kenny Williams said that Uribe will be the team's starting second baseman, the Chicago Tribune reports.

Spin: What an interesting weekend for Uribe, who went from being on waivers Friday to being named a starter Tuesday. He still has above-average power and will be eligible at both middle-infield positions. Alexei Ramirez will serve as the backup second baseman.

News: Phillips was re-assigned to minor league camp Tuesday, the Chicago Tribune reports.

Spin: This move ensures Toby Hall is healthy and capable of being the backup to A.J. Pierzynski.

Both per ESPN.com

1B: PK, 2B: Uribe, 3B Crede, SS Cabrera that is an outstanding fielding infield.
Any bets on how long Uribe remains?

spiffie

03-25-2008, 04:59 PM

Any bets on how long Uribe remains?
Until he's pried out of Ozzie and Kenny's cold dead hands.

DickAllen72

03-25-2008, 05:04 PM

What does Toby Hall bring to this team? Phillips earned that spot.

Agree with today's other roster moves or not, at least logical arguments could be made on both sides of those decisions.

But no logical argument could be made for keeping Hall over Phillips, unless they just didn't want to pay off his contract. But even if that's the case, at least they could have DL'd him. He does have a torn labrum that he never had repaired.

angiew

03-25-2008, 05:05 PM

Until he's pried out of Ozzie and Kenny's cold dead hands.

"Because he has no idea just how good he really can be offensively......"
:wired: (I'm so damn sick of hearing this I could PUKE)

WizardsofOzzie

03-25-2008, 05:26 PM

It's downright disgusting that Hall made the team over Phillips. Toby better work his ass off to prove he deserves that spot because Phillips is getting shafted big time.

WhiteSox5187

03-25-2008, 05:39 PM

Uribe making the team as our starting second baseman is not a shock, the fact he was apparently put on waivers on Friday WAS shocking...I'm also a bit surprised that Toby Hall made the team as people suggested that Phillips might pull a Chris Widger like in '05 when he upset Ben Davis I think...Difference is I don't think we were paying Davis what we're paying Hall.

I think Uribe might be on the team for the rest of the year, but with the problems we are having with Owens, I'd like to be able to turn around and get a legitimate leadoff hitter.

oeo

03-25-2008, 05:41 PM

Both per ESPN.com

1B: PK, 2B: Uribe, 3B Crede, SS Cabrera that is an outstanding fielding infield.
Any bets on how long Uribe remains?

The bet should be...who stays longer: Crede or Uribe?

If Richar can't get healthy, I think Uribe is here all year. Crede will be gone by the trade deadline.

LoveYourSuit

03-25-2008, 05:44 PM

What does Toby Hall bring to this team? Phillips earned that spot.

.

a fatter pay check.

$$$

The reason Uribe, Crede, & Hall made this team, plain and simple.

veeter

03-25-2008, 05:44 PM

Until he's pried out of Ozzie and Kenny's cold dead hands.:rolling:

WhiteSox5187

03-25-2008, 05:47 PM

The bet should be...who stays longer: Crede or Uribe?

If Richar can't get healthy, I think Uribe is here all year. Crede will be gone by the trade deadline.
I think Richar really shot himself in the foot by not getting here earlier in ST because we have two guys Uribe and Alexei who can play second. With Uribe you know what you're going to get (unless he finally gets his act together) and Alexei seems like he could be a legit major league hitter, Richar might wind up being the odd man out.

I think Uribe is going to be finishing the season here.

LoveYourSuit

03-25-2008, 05:59 PM

One of the guys on BTN just picked A Ramirez as AL rookie of the year, I got excited but then I was wondering if there is such an award for guy who carries Uribe's useless bags all year?

When will he play?

Domeshot17

03-25-2008, 06:01 PM

What makes me upset is Kenny has 5 guys on the 25 man roster for no other reason than they are getting paid too much to sit.

Im waiting to hear Ozzie say how Uribe earned his job by a great spring, which is true, but then what is the excuse for Crede over Fields or Owens over Anderson or Hall over Phillips.

I hate being a fan knowing the best 25 guys arent the 25 we are going to war with.

LoveYourSuit

03-25-2008, 06:07 PM

What makes me upset is Kenny has 5 guys on the 25 man roster for no other reason than they are getting paid too much to sit.

Im waiting to hear Ozzie say how Uribe earned his job by a great spring, which is true, but then what is the excuse for Crede over Fields or Owens over Anderson or Hall over Phillips.

I hate being a fan knowing the best 25 guys arent the 25 we are going to war with.

I think the only time I can recall this team eating a contract out of spring training was Ben Davis, and that was a miserable $1 million.

I don't know how you can sell us this "we want to win now" crap and yet your best 25 will not be out there.

soxinem1

03-25-2008, 06:25 PM

Until he's pried out of Ozzie and Kenny's cold dead hands.

:rolling:, then:

:angry:

Tragg

03-25-2008, 06:35 PM

But no logical argument could be made for keeping Hall over Phillips, unless they just didn't want to pay off his contract. But even if that's the case, at least they could have DL'd him. He does have a torn labrum that he never had repaired.
That contract is a sunk cost, so it shouldn't matter if it's $200,000 or $2,000,000 - he isn't getting the money back. Just as soon play the better player.
Where was Phillips last year?

bryPt

03-25-2008, 06:36 PM

Uribe's stats this spring:

OBP: .429 SLG: .600 AVG: .378

ZERO errors

I remember back in October we were all celebrating that he was gone. He is still here. If he keeps the above averages up the entire season, well then he belongs. I don't like it right now.

On the flip side:

Phillips finished .215 POINTS higher than Hall in Average and .266 higher in SLG, but he is not on the team.

What is wrong with this picture? I really don't like this at all.

What really puzzles me is why is McDougal going to make the team?

BRDSR

03-25-2008, 06:42 PM

Spin: This move ensures Toby Hall is healthy and capable of being the backup to A.J. Pierzynski.

Both per ESPN.com

This move ensures no such thing. Obviously nobody at ESPN has seen Hall play last year or this spring. Bad move. I said three weeks ago Phillips should make this team, and I still think he should have. It'll be moot in 4-6 weeks though, when Hall is either injured or batting .075 while throwing out 5-10% of opposing basestealers, and then only when they trip.

The day somebody steals a base on Buerhle with Hall behind the plate is the day KW will realize he made a terrible mistake. Don't get comfortable Paul, see you soon.

California Sox

03-25-2008, 07:31 PM

Uribe + Cabrera > Uribe + Iguchi? If not, we gave up Garland for nothing.

gogosox16

03-25-2008, 08:17 PM

Uribe + Cabrera > Uribe + Iguchi? If not, we gave up Garland for nothing.
Most definately, But I like a Ramirez + Cabrera > Uribe + Cabrera

Brian26

03-25-2008, 08:20 PM

Uribe + Cabrera > Uribe + Iguchi? If not, we gave up Garland for nothing.

Great post. Uribe + Cabrera is better than Uribe + Iguchi.

Cabrera > Iguchi with the glove and the bat.

Now the million dollar question is whether the difference between Iguchi and Cabrera is greater or less than the difference between Garland and Gavin Floyd.

southsideirish71

03-25-2008, 08:22 PM

Uribe's stats this spring:

OBP: .429 SLG: .600 AVG: .378

ZERO errors

I remember back in October we were all celebrating that he was gone. He is still here. If he keeps the above averages up the entire season, well then he belongs. I don't like it right now.

On the flip side:

Phillips finished .215 POINTS higher than Hall in Average and .266 higher in SLG, but he is not on the team.

What is wrong with this picture? I really don't like this at all.

What really puzzles me is why is McDougal going to make the team?

Check out Uribe's spring stats the last few years. He seems to have great springs, then he goes back into swing for the fence and corkscrew himself into the ground mode. The minute he feels comfortable he becomes the player that needed a hot september to beat out Anderson for BA in 06.

gogosox16

03-25-2008, 08:24 PM

Great post. Uribe + Cabrera is better than Uribe + Iguchi.

Cabrera > Iguchi with the glove and the bat.

Now the million dollar question is whether the difference between Iguchi and Cabrera is greater or less than the difference between Garland and Gavin Floyd.
We will find out next October or so.

ksimpson14

03-25-2008, 08:30 PM

Actually I don't really mind Uribe playing 2nd. I'm still not sure why we had to get rid of Iguchi though

I think the Phillips move is a mistake

gogosox16

03-25-2008, 08:32 PM

Actually I don't really mind Uribe playing 2nd. I'm still not sure why we had to get rid of Iguchi though

I think the Phillips move is a mistake
Because at the time we had this young 2nd basemen who was suppose to be our future at 2nd and he was ripping the cover off the ball in Triple-A.

pierzynski07

03-25-2008, 08:32 PM

What makes me upset is Kenny has 5 guys on the 25 man roster for no other reason than they are getting paid too much to sit.

Im waiting to hear Ozzie say how Uribe earned his job by a great spring, which is true, but then what is the excuse for Crede over Fields or Owens over Anderson or Hall over Phillips.

I hate being a fan knowing the best 25 guys arent the 25 we are going to war with.
Owens is starting on the DL, so.......

ksimpson14

03-25-2008, 08:32 PM

Why are we still wacking off about spring stats, Uribe always has a great spring. Same with Anderson (who I like).

gogosox16

03-25-2008, 08:34 PM

Why are we still wacking off about spring stats, Uribe always has a great spring. Same with Anderson (who I like).
Then he eats too much Doughnuts and McDonalds and slows him down and out of shape

munchman33

03-25-2008, 09:00 PM

Uribe + Cabrera > Uribe + Iguchi? If not, we gave up Garland for nothing.

But Uribe + Cabrera + Floyd <<<<<<<<<<<<< Uribe + Iguchi + Garland.

Milkman43

03-25-2008, 09:48 PM

So does this mean Alexei Ramirez starts the season in Triple-A?

SoxNation05

03-25-2008, 10:42 PM

But Uribe + Cabrera + Floyd <<<<<<<<<<<<< Uribe + Iguchi + Garland.
The Garland for Cabrera deal is questionable. We had to give a lot for a need and a good fit. I just don't see why we had to give up a legit 1, 2 or 3 if the Angels already had Aybar, Wood, Izturis and Kendrick in the middle infield. With Kendrick having a bonafide spot and three younger guys who are cheap and have promise who are all battiling for one spot. I think that older, expensive player should be easier to come by.

The_Floridian

03-25-2008, 11:13 PM

I don't like this "Juan always has a good spring" argument (if it's even true...I've seen no stats). But it's beside the point. Uribe has played fantastic this spring. He's earned the position. Do we really expect Ozzie to pull aside Uribe (a veteran player who has made some damn fine contributions to this team I might add) and say, "Hey Juan. You've had a great spring. You've done everything we asked you to do and more. You made the transition to second base seamlessly and haven't had a single error. You're hitting over .380 and you're swinging the bat as well as we've seen you swing it in a while. But you know, you always tease us like this in the spring, and we just don't trust you anymore. So, Ramirez gets the starting job. Sorry."

Uribe won the starting job. That doesn't mean Ramirez lost it. It just means that when you throw down the gauntlet and tell a guy you gotta earn this and the guy steps up, you give him the job. Uribe has done that. If you think he should be on a short leash, fine. I imagine Ozzie intends to keep him on one. But the guy won the spot fair and square.

Furthermore, consider that, with Owens going down, Ramirez is now our de facto backup center fielder. I think Ozzie puts him in there before he does Quentin, and he'd probably prefer to keep Swisher operating in left as much as possible. Ramirez not being the starting second baseman frees Ozzie up to use him in the outfield and get him acquainted with big league pitching during the regular season (which I think he will handle just fine).

I'm not disappointed with any of the moves so far except for Hall being chosen over Phillips. That is whack.

DickAllen72

03-25-2008, 11:27 PM

I'm not disappointed with any of the moves so far except for Hall being chosen over Phillips. That is whack.

Ditto!

Tragg

03-25-2008, 11:53 PM

I don't like this "Juan always has a good spring" argument (if it's even true...I've seen no stats). But it's beside the point. Uribe has played fantastic this spring. He's earned the position. Do we really expect Ozzie to pull aside Uribe (a veteran player who has made some damn fine contributions to this team I might add) and say, "Hey Juan. You've had a great spring. You've done everything we asked you to do and more. You made the transition to second base seamlessly and haven't had a single error. You're hitting over .380 and you're swinging the bat as well as we've seen you swing it in a while. But you know, you always tease us like this in the spring, and we just don't trust you anymore. So, Ramirez gets the starting job. Sorry."

Why not? That's what Ozzie does with young talent: Benches it after quality springs for the veteran mediocre. It makes more sense to do that with Uribe than with a young player.
Uribe's had 4 full seasons to show his skills: and in 4 full major league seasons, he's proven to be a terrible hitter (for a 2b; he's average for a SS). Iguchi was average, but could hit circles around Uribe - and Iguchi had zero value (what does Uribe have?).
I'd like to see Ramirez in AAA learning SS if he's not going to start. We have Richar for 2B when he gets healthy and Bourgeous could be the designated bench slapper.

Now the million dollar question is whether the difference between Iguchi and Cabrera is greater or less than the difference between Garland and Gavin Floyd.No, because Garland was going to get traded anyway. They have two young talented starters that they feel are ready, and Garland was in a walk year. The question is whether the current lineup is better than whatever prospects or young relievers we might have gotten for Jon.

jabrch

03-26-2008, 12:31 AM

I still don't understand why so many people who know so much about this game waste their talents here instead of working in the business.

California Sox

03-26-2008, 12:38 AM

I still don't understand why so many people who know so much about this game waste their talents here instead of working in the business.

Is that in response to something or are you posting it in every thread on the site? :D:

jabrch

03-26-2008, 12:43 AM

Is that in response to something or are you posting it in every thread on the site? :D:

I don't recall saying that in the past few days...but my memory isn't all that good either.

But it is a response to the general know-it-allism around here from an increasingly large number of posters, not a comment directed specifically at anyone. Most of the people who it would apply to are probably already on my ignore list anyhow so I'd have no idea if they are still up to the usual crap if it weren't for accidentally reading them being quoted from time to time.

Seriously - thank goodness for the ignore feature! (I'm sure many think the same thing with regards to my posts - which is fine)

Tragg

03-26-2008, 01:03 AM

The Dodgers are the team that claimed Uribe.

But the Sox pulled him back because "they needed his experience".

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-080325-white-sox-juan-uribe-starting-chicago,1,658497.story
If the Sox hadn't pulled him back would they have lost his salary as well?

HaroMaster87

03-26-2008, 01:20 AM

ugh...im soooo disappointed in the higher ups...URIBE AGAIN?????

How many times do we have to watch the same train wreck? This guy is one of the least intelligent players I have ever seen...he has absolutely no baseball smarts offensively. Do we not know this already? When he is up to bat, I literally change the channel...

One question though...who's gonna lead off????

A. Cavatica

03-26-2008, 01:21 AM

If the Sox hadn't pulled him back would they have lost his salary as well?

I imagine so. I can't understand why they didn't just wave bye-bye. Maybe it had something to do with not wanting to kill the Dodgers' interest in Crede?

SoxFan78

03-26-2008, 09:16 AM

Uribe + Cabrera > Uribe + Iguchi? If not, we gave up Garland for nothing.

Uribe + Cabrera < Cabrera + Iguchi

Why we gave up Iguchi for completely nothing still baffles me...

skottyj242

03-26-2008, 09:42 AM

I am real glad that Toby Hall made this team and I am probably the only one but that's okay by me. Toby Hall rules.

spiffie

03-26-2008, 10:14 AM

I am real glad that Toby Hall made this team and I am probably the only one but that's okay by me. Toby Hall rules.
Since he doesn't actually help the team with onfield play, perhaps his job at the 81 home games can be "roving goodwill ambassador." He can hang out in the stands, grab you a beer and a dog from the concession stand, pass out baseballs to the kids, maybe throw on the Southpaw costume from time to time. There could be potential in this.

markopat

03-26-2008, 10:31 AM

I don't recall saying that in the past few days...but my memory isn't all that good either.

But it is a response to the general know-it-allism around here from an increasingly large number of posters, not a comment directed specifically at anyone. Most of the people who it would apply to are probably already on my ignore list anyhow so I'd have no idea if they are still up to the usual crap if it weren't for accidentally reading them being quoted from time to time.

Seriously - thank goodness for the ignore feature! (I'm sure many think the same thing with regards to my posts - which is fine)

I have to agree Jabrch...I quit coming here to read early last year with all the dark clouds that call themselves "realists" ...it just gets old. I have been reading on 3 different threads this morning and I am out of here again. Thanks WSI. and Go Go SOX in 08.

:darkclouds:

skottyj242

03-26-2008, 10:41 AM

Since he doesn't actually help the team with onfield play, perhaps his job at the 81 home games can be "roving goodwill ambassador." He can hang out in the stands, grab you a beer and a dog from the concession stand, pass out baseballs to the kids, maybe throw on the Southpaw costume from time to time. There could be potential in this.

You're pretty clever, how's that working out for you?

asindc

03-26-2008, 11:01 AM

I don't like this "Juan always has a good spring" argument (if it's even true...I've seen no stats). But it's beside the point. Uribe has played fantastic this spring. He's earned the position. Do we really expect Ozzie to pull aside Uribe (a veteran player who has made some damn fine contributions to this team I might add) and say, "Hey Juan. You've had a great spring. You've done everything we asked you to do and more. You made the transition to second base seamlessly and haven't had a single error. You're hitting over .380 and you're swinging the bat as well as we've seen you swing it in a while. But you know, you always tease us like this in the spring, and we just don't trust you anymore. So, Ramirez gets the starting job. Sorry."

Uribe won the starting job. That doesn't mean Ramirez lost it. It just means that when you throw down the gauntlet and tell a guy you gotta earn this and the guy steps up, you give him the job. Uribe has done that. If you think he should be on a short leash, fine. I imagine Ozzie intends to keep him on one. But the guy won the spot fair and square.

Furthermore, consider that, with Owens going down, Ramirez is now our de facto backup center fielder. I think Ozzie puts him in there before he does Quentin, and he'd probably prefer to keep Swisher operating in left as much as possible. Ramirez not being the starting second baseman frees Ozzie up to use him in the outfield and get him acquainted with big league pitching during the regular season (which I think he will handle just fine).

I'm not disappointed with any of the moves so far except for Hall being chosen over Phillips. That is whack.

What he said. For those that would rather have Uribe be benched, I ask this: Why not just eat his contract and let him walk? If you put him in a true competition for the starting position, then he should have it if he earned it, which he did. The Hall over Phillips decision is puzzling, I granted you, and I'm a Hall fan. But Uribe... hey, he doesn't have to keep playing if he reverts, after all.

jabrch

03-26-2008, 11:03 AM

Why we gave up Iguchi for completely nothing still baffles me...

He was a FA after the season because our contract with him did not allow us to offer him arbitration. So when he was a FA, we'd still have every chance to negotiate with him and bring him here if we wanted to. But we got SOMETHING for him because we could.

I don't understand why people still don't get this one after all it has been discussed.

Either we trade him for a low level prospect, and then have the same chance as everyone to sign him as a FA or we keep him, and still have the same chance as everyone to sign him as a FA.

Really - why would we NOT have traded him?

jabrch

03-26-2008, 11:07 AM

Since he doesn't actually help the team with onfield play

I'm still not sure that is a factual statement. Many people (myself included) really liked this signing before Hall got hurt last year.

If this team's biggest problem is our backup catcher, I'll be fairly happy with the team.

Dornado

03-26-2008, 11:37 AM

Uribe starting is pretty underwhelming news... I mean, he's not without value, but after such a low season for the whole squad a guy like Alexei Ramirez with a little unknown potential is more intriguing to me....

I will say that Cabrera and Uribe won't be the worst double play combination... that is assuming Uribe is paying attention that day.

pdimas

03-26-2008, 11:49 AM

Defensively I really like our team makeup with Uribe, Crede, an Anderson starting..

BRDSR

03-26-2008, 11:56 AM

I'm still not sure that is a factual statement. Many people (myself included) really liked this signing before Hall got hurt last year.

If this team's biggest problem is our backup catcher, I'll be fairly happy with the team.

I've heard this before. Last offseason. Right before we signed Hall. Then Hall got hurt and we won 72 games.

I wish backup catcher was this team's biggest problem.

skottyj242

03-26-2008, 12:14 PM

I'm still not sure that is a factual statement. Many people (myself included) really liked this signing before Hall got hurt last year.

If this team's biggest problem is our backup catcher, I'll be fairly happy with the team.

Me too.

rdivaldi

03-26-2008, 12:16 PM

I said this on another thread, but if you have Crede starting at 3B, Uribe at 2B and Anderson in CF you'd be hard pressed to find 2 other teams in baseball with better overall defense.

pdimas

03-26-2008, 12:17 PM

In '04 Uribe played 77 games for us at 2nd base and had a fielding percentage of .984 while the league average was .982

http://www.baseball-reference.com/u/uribeju01.shtml

oeo

03-26-2008, 12:18 PM

I said this on another thread, but if you have Crede starting at 3B, Uribe at 2B and Anderson in CF you'd be hard pressed to find 2 other teams in baseball with better overall defense.

Just imagine if we somehow got Quentin in RF.

Domeshot17

03-26-2008, 12:19 PM

Lets not lie, 90% of us were FLOORED when we signed Hall because (1) It meant no more Sandy Jr and (2) He used to MASH on lefties, and he would be a nice spell to AJ on days when Johan and CC were throwing. However, we he toar his labrum, that all changed. I don't FAULT him for not having surgery, I think as a pro athlete, anytime you can avoid the knife you do, however, he gambled it would heal without it and it hasn't. If he was 100%, you would have no problem picking him over phillips, but he is not. And this is not something where we can just DL him for a month, its go as is or have the surgery and miss all of the year.

And yes, this team is going to be fun to watch defensively. I actually like the makeup of the team. AJ calls a good game, doesnt throw out runners all that well, but he is a SMART catcher. We are the best team up the middle easily with Cabrera Uribe and Anderson, and while I don't think Crede is healthy or ready offensively, his D at 3rd is elite. Toss in an Under rated Konerko at first and good enough Corner OF in Swish and Dye, and that will help our pitching staff big time. If Contreras can keep his era in the low 4s (same with Danks), and Floyd under 5 and win 50% of his games, this is a dangerous dangerous team.

pdimas

03-26-2008, 12:20 PM

I said this on another thread, but if you have Crede starting at 3B, Uribe at 2B and Anderson in CF you'd be hard pressed to find 2 other teams in baseball with better overall defense.

I agree which in turn helps our pitchers out. I just get the feeling everyone is so focused on offense around here that they tend to forget about the defensive skills that these guys bring to the table.

rdivaldi

03-26-2008, 12:20 PM

I agree which in turn helps our pitchers out. I just get the feeling everyone is so focused on offense around here that they tend to forget about the defensive skills that these guys bring to the table.

Watching Uribe and Anderson bat usually makes me forget too...

:D:

oeo

03-26-2008, 12:21 PM

Lets not lie, 90% of us were FLOORED when we signed Hall because (1) It meant no more Sandy Jr and (2) He used to MASH on lefties, and he would be a nice spell to AJ on days when Johan and CC were throwing. However, we he toar his labrum, that all changed. I don't FAULT him for not having surgery, I think as a pro athlete, anytime you can avoid the knife you do, however, he gambled it would heal without it and it hasn't. If he was 100%, you would have no problem picking him over phillips, but he is not. And this is not something where we can just DL him for a month, its go as is or have the surgery and miss all of the year.

At the time, I loved it. And I still supported the guy up until about a week ago when I saw he's still not 100%.

This isn't the same Toby Hall that we signed. This one is garbage.

pdimas

03-26-2008, 12:22 PM

Watching Uribe and Anderson bat usually makes me forget too...

:D:

very true :tongue:

russ99

03-26-2008, 12:26 PM

I don't know how you can sell us this "we want to win now" crap and yet your best 25 will not be out there.

This is a very pessimistic statement.

First off Richar & Owens are hurt. They'd be on the opening day roster and likely starting if they weren't.

Uribe's played a full season at 2B before, but Ramirez will get his chances and if Juan struggles/gets lazy like last season, Alexei will take over. I expect both to do well, since Juan isn't being handed anything. He knows he has a talented hungry kid behind him who will jump at the chance to play if he eases off.

You can't tell me a healthy Crede isn't a better option than Fields. Do you all forget the play & numbers he put up in 2006??

Why would the Sox brass stunt Phillips growth by having him sit on the bench for 145-155 games this season? Hall's likely not going to make an impact even if he were 100% healthy. Phillips can play every day in AAA while A.J. handles the bulk of catching duties.

Despite the wishes of most Sox fans that Crede, Uribe, Hall and Anderson get dealt or cut, whatever - they still give us the best chance to win now. Like it or not, they are part of the "Best 25" unless they play poorly, get injured or are traded.

rdivaldi

03-26-2008, 12:32 PM

Why would you stunt Phillips growth by having him sit on the bench for 140-150 games this season?

Why are so many people talking about Phillips like he's some sort of prospect? The guy is 29 years old and a career .270/.323/.707 in the minors.

Jerko

03-26-2008, 12:36 PM

Why are so many people talking about Phillips like he's some sort of prospect? The guy is 29 years old and a career .270/.323/.707 in the minors.

Well, Richar, Quentin and Fields are already the next Joe Morgan, George Foster, and Pete Rose. Phillips could be Johnny Bench.

russ99

03-26-2008, 12:39 PM

Why are so many people talking about Phillips like he's some sort of prospect? The guy is 29 years old and a career .270/.323/.707 in the minors.

While he's not a true prospect, catchers develop more slowly and he's a career minor leaguer. While I think he could be a solid backup eventually, it would be bad for him to sit on the Sox bench and not play. A vet like Hall can handle it and play when called upon, but it would be hard to put Phillips in that position.

If Hall's more injured than he's letting on or A.J. starts to wear down, he'll surely get a call but he's more valuable to the Sox right now playing every day in Charlotte.

Madscout

03-26-2008, 12:42 PM

Well, Richar, Quentin and Fields are already the next Joe Morgan, George Foster, and Pete Rose. Phillips could be Johnny Bench.

No pun intended?

skottyj242

03-26-2008, 12:43 PM

Why are so many people talking about Phillips like he's some sort of prospect? The guy is 29 years old and a career .270/.323/.707 in the minors.

People think he's like 22. He was a non-roster invitee to camp too. Viva la Toby Hall.

cws05champ

03-26-2008, 01:18 PM

He was a FA after the season because our contract with him did not allow us to offer him arbitration. So when he was a FA, we'd still have every chance to negotiate with him and bring him here if we wanted to. But we got SOMETHING for him because we could.

I don't understand why people still don't get this one after all it has been discussed.

Either we trade him for a low level prospect, and then have the same chance as everyone to sign him as a FA or we keep him, and still have the same chance as everyone to sign him as a FA.

Really - why would we NOT have traded him?

There was thread awhile back on the Iguchi trade. KW had basically admitted that he gave away Iguchi to Philly as a "make up" to Pat Gillick for the Freddy Garcia trade that Philly got nothing from. The trade is what it is. An average 2nd basemen on the last year of his contract being traded for a longshot Mil'r as a gift(basically).

TornLabrum

03-26-2008, 02:24 PM

I said this on another thread, but if you have Crede starting at 3B, Uribe at 2B and Anderson in CF you'd be hard pressed to find 2 other teams in baseball with better overall defense.

And at least two possible holes in the offense.

rdivaldi

03-26-2008, 02:31 PM

And at least two possible holes in the offense.

Undoubtedly...

jabrch

03-26-2008, 02:52 PM

I've heard this before. Last offseason. Right before we signed Hall. Then Hall got hurt and we won 72 games.

I assume you weren't trying to draw a line from Hall getting hurt to us winning 72 games. Hall's injury, of course, is not in the top 10 list of reasons we lost 90 games.

jabrch

03-26-2008, 02:53 PM

There was thread awhile back on the Iguchi trade. KW had basically admitted that he gave away Iguchi to Philly as a "make up" to Pat Gillick for the Freddy Garcia trade that Philly got nothing from. The trade is what it is. An average 2nd basemen on the last year of his contract being traded for a longshot Mil'r as a gift(basically).

But we still had the exact same chance of getting Iguchi this year. It wasn't as if we let him go and lost the opportunity to have him this season...

FedEx227

03-26-2008, 02:59 PM

Well, Richar, Quentin and Fields are already the next Joe Morgan, George Foster, and Pete Rose. Phillips could be Johnny Bench.

Why do people insist on saying this everytime someone on here says something positive about a prospect. I think Richar is good, thus I'm comparing him to Joe Morgan. STOP that ****, please. It's annoying beyond belief.

spiffie

03-26-2008, 03:19 PM

I'm still not sure that is a factual statement. Many people (myself included) really liked this signing before Hall got hurt last year.

If this team's biggest problem is our backup catcher, I'll be fairly happy with the team.
I liked the signing too last year. Its a shame Toby Hall got injured and seemingly lost all of his abilities as a major league player. A healthy Toby Hall would likely have been a nice asset for the team to have.

And I'm sorry but that last statement just makes no sense. Yes, there are plenty of things that could be fixed about this team. But this is a case where it appears there was a better option available which the team chose not to avail themselves of. To act like questioning that decision is some sort of nit-picking or inability to put things in perspective is just missing the point. No, choosing Phillips wouldn't change the fact we have an underwhelming rotation, a questionable bullpen, holes and huge question marks at 2B, 3B, and CF, and no real help waiting on the farm. But any time the team makes a decision that makes them a weaker team, even if the gain involved is likely to be minimal, is a decision that justifiably invites question.

kittle42

03-26-2008, 03:19 PM

He was a FA after the season because our contract with him did not allow us to offer him arbitration. So when he was a FA, we'd still have every chance to negotiate with him and bring him here if we wanted to. But we got SOMETHING for him because we could.

I don't understand why people still don't get this one after all it has been discussed.

Either we trade him for a low level prospect, and then have the same chance as everyone to sign him as a FA or we keep him, and still have the same chance as everyone to sign him as a FA.

Really - why would we NOT have traded him?

2005! :rolleyes:

kittle42

03-26-2008, 03:21 PM

Why are so many people talking about Phillips like he's some sort of prospect? The guy is 29 years old and a career .270/.323/.707 in the minors.

It's the Greg Luzinski fat white guy factor.

Jerko

03-26-2008, 03:24 PM

Why do people insist on saying this everytime someone on here says something positive about a prospect. I think Richar is good, thus I'm comparing him to Joe Morgan. STOP that ****, please. It's annoying beyond belief.

Saying something positive about a prospect is fine. Acting like we're doomed for 10 years because Josh ****ing Fields got sent down or Carlos .214 Quentin is gonna be benched is annoying too. Fields is the only one that has a gripe as far as I'm concerned.

btrain929

03-26-2008, 03:26 PM

I said this on another thread, but if you have Crede starting at 3B, Uribe at 2B and Anderson in CF you'd be hard pressed to find 2 other teams in baseball with better overall defense.

I heard that Cabrera character knows what to do with a glove as well...

oeo

03-26-2008, 03:28 PM

I heard that Cabrera character knows what to do with a glove as well...

I think the point was if those guys start. Cabrera is going to start no matter what.

spiffie

03-26-2008, 03:29 PM

You're pretty clever, how's that working out for you?
Great. Now onto Project Mayhem!

skottyj242

03-26-2008, 03:30 PM

Why do people insist on saying this everytime someone on here says something positive about a prospect. I think Richar is good, thus I'm comparing him to Joe Morgan. STOP that ****, please. It's annoying beyond belief.

Is Phillips really a prospect though? Had anyone heard of him before spring training?

oeo

03-26-2008, 03:32 PM

Why do people insist on saying this everytime someone on here says something positive about a prospect. I think Richar is good, thus I'm comparing him to Joe Morgan. STOP that ****, please. It's annoying beyond belief.

I think that's the new thing around here. It's especially popular with those that support Joe Crede. I think it's their only defense. :dunno:

Is Phillips really a prospect though? Had anyone heard of him before spring training?

Phillips is far, far, far from a prospect, but I'm pretty sure he was talking about the Richar, Fields, and Quentin reference.

Jerko

03-26-2008, 03:32 PM

I think the point was if those guys start. Cabrera is going to start no matter what.

I've been trying to think of a set starting 8 and I STILL can't come up with one. We can have a different guy at no less than 4 positions every day.

FedEx227

03-26-2008, 03:48 PM

Is Phillips really a prospect though? Had anyone heard of him before spring training?

I'm more or less speaking about Richar and Anderson and how if I say they are good I'm calling Anderson Willie Mays or Richar is the second coming of Joe Morgan despite none of us saying anything NEAR that.

delben91

03-26-2008, 03:57 PM

So last week, Scott Reifert's blog said 32 players were in camp after Lucy, Sisco, Eldred and Ohka were re-assigned to minor league camp.

With Jerry Owens on the DL, Fields in AAA, and Phillips, Carrasco, Bourgeois being re-assigned that takes the roster to 27. The choice between Wassermann and Massett will take it to 26. So who's the other player on the roster I'm missing that takes it to 25?

Jerko

03-26-2008, 03:58 PM

I think that's the new thing around here. It's especially popular with those that support Joe Crede. I think it's their only defense. :dunno:

Phillips is far, far, far from a prospect, but I'm pretty sure he was talking about the Richar, Fields, and Quentin reference.

I'm just sick of hearing how much Crede, Uribe and Owens suck when guys like BA, Quentin, Richar, and Fields haven't done anything to show me that they're any better. And Fields is the one guy you can probably make a case for, so I'm far from a Crede lover. All I hear is "BA should start because he's having a good spring and did everything he was asked to", but "Uribe is a fat piece of **** who should be gone even though he is having a good spring and did everything he was asked to." It drives me up the wall. Sorry that I refuse to pine away for four guys who batted .244 or lower last year.

skottyj242

03-26-2008, 03:59 PM

I'm just sick of hearing how much Crede, Uribe and Owens suck when guys like BA, Quentin, Richar, and Fields haven't done anything to show me that they're any better. And Fields is the one guy you can probably make a case for, so I'm far from a Crede lover. All I hear is "BA should start because he's having a good spring and did everything he was asked to", but "Uribe is a fat piece of **** who should be gone even though he is having a good spring and did everything he was asked to." It drives me up the wall. Sorry that I refuse to pine away for four guys who batted .244 or lower last year.

With.

jabrch

03-26-2008, 04:00 PM

I'm just sick of hearing how much Crede, Uribe and Owens suck when guys like BA, Quentin, Richar, and Fields haven't done anything to show me that they're any better. And Fields is the one guy you can probably make a case for, so I'm far from a Crede lover. All I hear is "BA should start because he's having a good spring and did everything he was asked to", but "Uribe is a fat piece of **** who should be gone even though he is having a good spring and did everything he was asked to." It drives me up the wall. Sorry that I refuse to pine away for four guys who batted .244 or lower last year.

Well said Jerko...

spiffie

03-26-2008, 04:07 PM

I'm just sick of hearing how much Crede, Uribe and Owens suck when guys like BA, Quentin, Richar, and Fields haven't done anything to show me that they're any better. And Fields is the one guy you can probably make a case for, so I'm far from a Crede lover. All I hear is "BA should start because he's having a good spring and did everything he was asked to", but "Uribe is a fat piece of **** who should be gone even though he is having a good spring and did everything he was asked to." It drives me up the wall. Sorry that I refuse to pine away for four guys who batted .244 or lower last year.
Joe Crede - .216
Juan Uribe - .234

Jerko

03-26-2008, 04:08 PM

Joe Crede - .216
Juan Uribe - .234

Brian Anderson .188
Carlos Quentin .214

spiffie

03-26-2008, 04:10 PM

Brian Anderson .188
Carlos Quentin .214
I know. Just seems funny to use that .244 number to denigrate one group of guys while being happy that another group of guys who also couldn't get to that line are going to be starting.

Dan Mega

03-26-2008, 04:10 PM

I'm just sick of hearing how much Crede, Uribe and Owens suck when guys like BA, Quentin, Richar, and Fields haven't done anything to show me that they're any better. And Fields is the one guy you can probably make a case for, so I'm far from a Crede lover. All I hear is "BA should start because he's having a good spring and did everything he was asked to", but "Uribe is a fat piece of **** who should be gone even though he is having a good spring and did everything he was asked to." It drives me up the wall. Sorry that I refuse to pine away for four guys who batted .244 or lower last year.

And again, offense is less than 1/2 the game, which the haters are continuing to ignore.

If the current results aren't panning out why not go with the young guys, because they didn't light the world on fire right away? Guess what, neither did Crede, Uribe, or Owens.

skottyj242

03-26-2008, 04:11 PM

Brian Anderson .188
Carlos Quentin .214

You can prove anything with facts.

Jerko

03-26-2008, 04:12 PM

I know. Just seems funny to use that .244 number to denigrate one group of guys while being happy that another groups of guys who also couldn't get to that line are going to be starting.

Hey they can all use some improvement as far as I am concerned. I just used the .244 so people wouldn't accuse me of leaving out the highest guy that I was complaining about (Fields). I hope they all kick ass but we'll have to wait and see.

rdivaldi

03-26-2008, 04:13 PM

I've been trying to think of a set starting 8 and I STILL can't come up with one. We can have a different guy at no less than 4 positions every day.

True, but I expect Cabrera to at SS 90% of the time, which is why (as oeo mentioned) was why I didn't bring him up.

spiffie

03-26-2008, 04:18 PM

Hey they can all use some improvement as far as I am concerned. I just used the .244 so people wouldn't accuse me of leaving out the highest guy that I was complaining about (Fields). I hope they all kick ass but we'll have to wait and see.
Yes they can...that's why people are so disheartened to see Uribe and Crede. We KNOW what Juan Uribe is. We've seen his routine year after year. He is very very very unlikely to improve. Joe Crede had one good year in his entire career, then he went and got a chronic injury. Joe Crede is a decent player with injury trouble and impending free agency. Josh Fields and Danny Richar still have the chance of getting better. I think Owens does as well, but at least if he loses the job to Anderson its a case of the Sox trying someone who might still have room to grow. Juan Uribe is a lazy player who hasn't shown any heart for the game since Oct. 26, 2005. He is one of the worst hitters in baseball. A couple of nice weeks against minor league-bound pitchers isn't going to change those facts. Danny Richar might not be a great player. Josh Fields may never be great. But Joe Crede and Juan Uribe ARE NOT great. They will never be great. We know this. There is no room for growth or hope with those players. With Richar and Fields there at least is a chance.

Frater Perdurabo

03-26-2008, 04:29 PM

And at least two possible holes in the offense.

Hal, you and Wilkes ought to remember that I'm batting a lifetime 1.000 (1 for 1) when I called BA as the "in person" PTC at WSI Fest 2006. I'm predicting more PTCs for BA in the future!