Member

Gomez was class alongside VVD the start of the season and undroppable,he was keeping Lovren and Matip out of the team,if it wasn't for fracturing his leg the end of last year,he'd probably still be playing at CB and improved leaps and bounds by now.I'd imagine if a new CB is brought in,then he's only going to be a back up,as i doubt moving Gomez to LB or RB from now on,will be where they want to play him and stunt his growth in the CB position.

Sessegnon not good enough because he hasn't set the world alight at Fulham doesn't mean anything??at 16/17yo he was playing full on first team football in the championship and assissting/scoring for fun,so he's game hardened,he's now had premiership experience under his belt (which woodburn,wilson and kent don't have) and can play multiple positions and still only 18yo,this is just the type of player Klopp would love to coach and improve,especially if the price was right.

You say Brewster isn't good enough to cover Sturridge (who's hardly used) yet throwing in Lewis at LB for Moreno is ok cos he's not playing? tbh i think giving Brewster 10-15mins of game time or early round FA/League cup games,to rest any of the front 3 next season,would be hugely benifitial to him and less of a risk,than having to throw in a novice youngster at full back,who's probably in a more important position,with the way we play,so that doesn't make much sense.

Yeah world class players were bought for GK/CB positions this summer but that doesn't mean it's going to happen for every position,you only need to read reports the past few days,where Klopp has supposedly said they won't be blowing money like we did last summer,we have injured players coming back (Lovren,Brewster,AOC) who he obviously has plans for,so you can tell he's only going to buy a hand full of players to improve the quality and depth to the squad,unless he has one worldie up his sleeve thats goning under the radar.

I gotta be honest but your replies are pretty insulting,chatting like your the billy big bollox of the football team building world,like we are all dumb and don't know how football team building works,all this rubbish about replacing good players with great players and replacing them with world class players to improve our squad is the way to do it and the only way to do it.Thats all well and good if your Man City or Real Madrid,spending huge sums to make a team of galactico's,but i guess from everything i've read from you,you don't have a clue about how LFC is being run or how Klopp builds a team,have you not been taking note the past 3 summers?

You say Sturridge is hardly used yet who comes in in games that are 0-0 with 20 mins to go and we need to change something? You think Brewster is ready to step into our squad and be brought on to save games and change the outcome? This is what buying a far better striker than Sturridge would do besides the obvious allowing players like Salah Mane or Firmino to be rested more.

You think Brewster will be able to start against Chelsea in a crucial league game because we had a crucial Champions league game 3 days earlier? These are the scenario's that warrant another top striker or 2 in our squad.

Of course Brewster could still get 10 mins end of games we are comfortable in and start odd cup game why is that any different to previous youth players allowed to stay in our first team for experience.

No, a team is 11 players. A first team is the 11 players you try to field the most regularly. those sitting on the bench and can come on to play are your reserves (and with the team form the matchday squad). The lists of players listed with the competition authorites and/or eligible to play in the event are your squad.

I’m all for continual improvement (which also happens on the training pitch rather as well as the transfer market).

But I think it’s harsh to point to our games against them as evidence they have a better eleven. The Anfield game was a stalemate. At the Emptihad it was on a knife edge. They weren’t decisively the better team, and it was the run of the ball that got them three points. I still don’t know how that ball got cleared off the line, and it was unlucky that Mane’s shot bounced out off the line while Sane’s bounced in. And then of course, Kompany shouldn’t have even been on the pitch for the last hour...

Football matches are not exercises in scientific objectivism. You don’t get the same result running the same match over and over (as I know from my footy manager days). On the day, any team can beat any other team. There is a such thing as form and fitness, and old fashioned luck comes into it too. Because they beat us in a game that doesn’t mean they are conclusively better than us, just like we weren’t better than them because we beat them three games out of four last year.

Looking at the sides, I think we are very evenly matched. I wouldn’t take their keeper over ours. I prefer our central defence and I think we have better full backs. I would take Fabinho over Fernandinho (mostly just because he is getting on now) and I wouldn’t swap our forward three for theirs.

I’d make room for the creativity they have in central midfield, but that’s about it.

The difference between us is the depth they can call on, especially up front.

The way you are talking to people might be fine on twitter, but it won’t fly here. You’re unnecessarily patronising and condescending, and if you are going to continue to be a member here you need to remember that most of what is being discussed is very subjective. People will disagree and that’s fine. It’s a discussion. Your opinion is not the only one with validity.

Sort this out please. If you continue in this vein, points and bans will follow.

Member

The way you are talking to people might be fine on twitter, but it won’t fly here. You’re unnecessarily patronising and condescending, and if you are going to continue to be a member here you need to remember that most of what is being discussed is very subjective. People will disagree and that’s fine. It’s a discussion. Your opinion is not the only one with validity.

Sort this out please. If you continue in this vein, points and bans will follow.

Member

No, a team is 11 players. A first team is the 11 players you try to field the most regularly. those sitting on the bench and can come on to play are your reserves (and with the team form the matchday squad). The lists of players listed with the competition authorites and/or eligible to play in the event are your squad.

They are all part of a team. When do you hear anyone say what squad do you support? Liverpool is the team we all support on here and all players Liverpool are part of that team. Squad is just another word for team and is only really used when trying to bring in to conversation the fringe players but team is everyone.

You see it used for both as starting 11 when news or reporters are referring to the team/squad a manager has picked. Lets have a look at the teams is constant on sky sports. But some other news outlets may use the word match day squad. Both are used so discounting one as wrong is not right

Why do i need everyone to shake my hand and buy me a pint? I ain't on here to get unwarranted praise my opinion may be wrong to some and if it is then that is up to them but as for my opinion getting me chinned i think you must go to the wrong pubs if an opinion can get you hurt.

TIA Regular

They are all part of a team. When do you hear anyone say what squad do you support? Liverpool is the team we all support on here and all players Liverpool are part of that team. Squad is just another word for team and is only really used when trying to bring in to conversation the fringe players but team is everyone.

You see it used for both as starting 11 when news or reporters are referring to the team/squad a manager has picked. Lets have a look at the teams is constant on sky sports. But some other news outlets may use the word match day squad. Both are used so discounting one as wrong is not right

that really isnt the most common way of defining a team. If that is how you are using the definition, then you really need to be more specific in your posts so that others understand your point better.

Nope. It was also mainly 4-3-3 at those clubs, maybe 3 at the back sometimes at Fiorentina, while he also played a fair bit centrally for both sides. Not only that, but that's also a long time ago in footballing time. He has evolved more closer to the goal, almost doubling his numbers since joining us. Playing as a winger in a double-six formation, you're first and foremost part of the midfield (with greater defensive responsibilities, even if Mane does more on the opposite side), not the attack where he is best. Plus, that's also on the side where Trent is a starter now and where he can struggle defensively of course as he's still a kid. Shaqiri is nowhere near the level to ever become a starter here, he will probably continue to battle for minutes off the bench for another season. Haven't seen enough of Jovic, though I know Eintracht are one of the better counter attacking sides out there with a dangerous trio. Striker (or #10 for that matter, basically Bobby who does both) is obviously a sensitive position for Klopp, he will not pick anyone there because that's exactly where a lot of stuff begins with his principal game plan and he is not ready to carry any passengers there, at least in terms of a starting XI player.

On Griezmann... I think if he's looking for a way out of Atletico, he will be aiming something more than us, both in terms of trophies and money. PSG are apparently sniffing and Balague said that it's most probably Griezmann's agents who are leaking stuff to see if there's a way out. Atletico will defend themselves with a buyout clause. Barca will not return for him. I like the player, but I think we missed our chance with him when he was leaving Sociedad and we were stuck trying to make a deal for Sanchez. Thought back then that Griezmann was a great "alternative" to continue without Suarez, when we almost won the title (having at least some power in negotiations) and perhaps could lure him away from Spain and such a hardworking side like Atletico (where he naturally took some time to adjust, but it didn't take long). I don't think we'll spend that much and I also think we very much want to stay within this current wage structure, so no superstars.

Yours for £1m. Need to make room for Dean Saunders

Why do i need everyone to shake my hand and buy me a pint? I ain't on here to get unwarranted praise my opinion may be wrong to some and if it is then that is up to them but as for my opinion getting me chinned i think you must go to the wrong pubs if an opinion can get you hurt.

TIA Regular

Nope. It was also mainly 4-3-3 at those clubs, maybe 3 at the back sometimes at Fiorentina, while he also played a fair bit centrally for both sides. Not only that, but that's also a long time ago in footballing time. He has evolved more closer to the goal, almost doubling his numbers since joining us. Playing as a winger in a double-six formation, you're first and foremost part of the midfield (with greater defensive responsibilities, even if Mane does more on the opposite side), not the attack where he is best. Plus, that's also on the side where Trent is a starter now and where he can struggle defensively of course as he's still a kid. Shaqiri is nowhere near the level to ever become a starter here, he will probably continue to battle for minutes off the bench for another season. Haven't seen enough of Jovic, though I know Eintracht are one of the better counter attacking sides out there with a dangerous trio. Striker (or #10 for that matter, basically Bobby who does both) is obviously a sensitive position for Klopp, he will not pick anyone there because that's exactly where a lot of stuff begins with his principal game plan and he is not ready to carry any passengers there, at least in terms of a starting XI player.

On Griezmann... I think if he's looking for a way out of Atletico, he will be aiming something more than us, both in terms of trophies and money. PSG are apparently sniffing and Balague said that it's most probably Griezmann's agents who are leaking stuff to see if there's a way out. Atletico will defend themselves with a buyout clause. Barca will not return for him. I like the player, but I think we missed our chance with him when he was leaving Sociedad and we were stuck trying to make a deal for Sanchez. Thought back then that Griezmann was a great "alternative" to continue without Suarez, when we almost won the title (having at least some power in negotiations) and perhaps could lure him away from Spain and such a hardworking side like Atletico (where he naturally took some time to adjust, but it didn't take long). I don't think we'll spend that much and I also think we very much want to stay within this current wage structure, so no superstars.

Well-Known Member

I’m all for continual improvement (which also happens on the training pitch rather as well as the transfer market).

But I think it’s harsh to point to our games against them as evidence they have a better eleven. The Anfield game was a stalemate. At the Emptihad it was on a knife edge. They weren’t decisively the better team, and it was the run of the ball that got them three points. I still don’t know how that ball got cleared off the line, and it was unlucky that Mane’s shot bounced out off the line while Sane’s bounced in. And then of course, Kompany shouldn’t have even been on the pitch for the last hour...

Football matches are not exercises in scientific objectivism. You don’t get the same result running the same match over and over (as I know from my footy manager days). On the day, any team can beat any other team. There is a such thing as form and fitness, and old fashioned luck comes into it too. Because they beat us in a game that doesn’t mean they are conclusively better than us, just like we weren’t better than them because we beat them three games out of four last year.

Looking at the sides, I think we are very evenly matched. I wouldn’t take their keeper over ours. I prefer our central defence and I think we have better full backs. I would take Fabinho over Fernandinho (mostly just because he is getting on now) and I wouldn’t swap our forward three for theirs.

I’d make room for the creativity they have in central midfield, but that’s about it.

The difference between us is the depth they can call on, especially up front.

In respect of our 'best 11', if there is such a thing, I see central defence as a weakness because all three bar VVD are injury prone. I don't yet view Gomez as VVD's full time partner, because Gomez hasn't shown that he can be relied upon to be fit enough for enough of a season for that to be the case.

I feel we lack a creative midfielder of the 'Silva' type (useful in deadlocked matches against top sides and in unlocking bus parkers), and I do think in some of those matches a proper 9 would be better than Bobby.

When I talk about improvements, and point out flaws (or areas for improvement), it emanates not from an unrealistic video game derived idea of perfection, nor fantasy land spending expectations.

It comes from a recognition that as good as this season has been in terms of results, we've been far from convincing on many occasions.

It comes from a desire to see the club spend what it can, and should, given its financial position, not for the sake of it but because money spent, and spent well (which we now have the confidence it would be), would improve our competitiveness.

It comes for a desire to see the club continuously improve such that we move from an era of revolution into evolution.

Our problem just now is that several players (Sturridge, Origi, Moreno, Clyne and arguably Lallana and Shaqiri), aren't good enough in comparison to others, so they just don't play enough.

Given that our senior outfield squad is 21 players including Clyne, it's not like we have a huge senior squad that can be trimmed without replacements.

If five or six players leave, we will have to sign 3 or 4 quality players if we want our squad to be good enough and deep enough.

The only reason we've maintained our challenge this season despite the above, is because we've had minimal injuries.

A long term injury to Bobby, Mo, Mane, VVD, Robertson or Gini, or a few of them, would have laid bare the lack of quality in the group of players who will be leaving.

We're in a great place to do what needs to be done, we just need to ensure we don't navel gaze whatever we achieve, or don't.

Yours for £1m. Need to make room for Dean Saunders

It comes from a desire to see the club spend what it can, and should, given its financial position, not for the sake of it but because money spent, and spent well (which we now have the confidence it would be), would improve our competitiveness.

With the best will in the world I just don’t understand how you can still be banging this drum.

For the last three years, under Edwards and Klopp, the club have operated a transfer policy based on refusing to compromise on number one targets, and only buying when absolutely necessary. This has allowed us go big on key players when we have needed to.

This is the strategy that has put us back on the map in Europe and challenging for the league title.

Why would the club change tack now? What ever you think about the transfer policy, surely you’d have to accept that it’s objectively working? We’re exactly where we want to be.

TIA Youth Team

You say Sturridge is hardly used yet who comes in in games that are 0-0 with 20 mins to go and we need to change something? You think Brewster is ready to step into our squad and be brought on to save games and change the outcome? This is what buying a far better striker than Sturridge would do besides the obvious allowing players like Salah Mane or Firmino to be rested more.

You think Brewster will be able to start against Chelsea in a crucial league game because we had a crucial Champions league game 3 days earlier? These are the scenario's that warrant another top striker or 2 in our squad.

Of course Brewster could still get 10 mins end of games we are comfortable in and start odd cup game why is that any different to previous youth players allowed to stay in our first team for experience.

I don't think Brewster is 100% ready to fill in for our front 3 and start games straight away next season,but i never said he'd be our only option to cover Sturridge when he leaves in the summer either,although i wouldn't be suprised if Klopp started to use Brewster as a Sturridge replacement,the kid needs game time,he can play out wide and forward plus has speed and finishing ability,he's of more use to us than an experienced Sturridge,who's hardly used and when called upon,doesn't really fit into our style of play or change the game and is pretty static.

I was just comparing the situation you said about using Adam Lewis at LB to cover Moreno when he leaves.I'd be more comfortable using Brewster in the last 10-15mins of a game in the Mane/Salah role,even if we were still 0-0 against a Chelsea type side,than i would be using Lewis at LB atm,but IF Klopp decided that he'd use Brewster and Lewis as those types of options,then who am i to say he's wrong,obviously he'd be the one on the training ground coaching them and seeing how good they are on a daily basis,to give them game time and bring more youth through the ranks.

Well-Known Member

I’ve snipped your post, some of which I agree with, and some I don’t, because I want to focus on this.

With the best will in the world I just don’t understand how you can still be banging this drum.

For the last three years, under Edwards and Klopp, the club have operated a transfer policy based on refusing to compromise on number one targets, and only buying when absolutely necessary. This has allowed us go big on key players when we have needed to.

This is the strategy that has put us back on the map in Europe and challenging for the league title.

Why would the club change tack now? What ever you think about the transfer policy, surely you’d have to accept that it’s objectively working? We’re exactly where we want to be.

I'm not talking about changing tack, I'm talking about more of the same at a net spend commensurate with the club's financial standing.

In short, things would be better still if we did more. I don't buy that there isn't more that can be done to improve things, that there aren't players who fit the bill.

There are players out there who would improve the squad beyond those being replaced and those currently at the club.

Ultimately I believe there are spending constraints, you don't.

But £85m net on a £1billion turnover since 2015 is indicative. I fear 2018 wasn't actually an averaging up of the break even under Klopp to the lower end of acceptable levels of £30m a season, but was in fact a high point from which we may well start to average down again.

Ultimately I think that Klopp's ability to get more out of the net spend than other's would, is a reason to increase that net spend and yield a medium term trophy dividend. But I believe FSG prefer an immediate financial dividend.

Yours for £1m. Need to make room for Dean Saunders

I'm not talking about changing tack, I'm talking about more of the same at a net spend commensurate with the club's financial standing.

In short, things would be better still if we did more. I don't buy that there isn't more that can be done to improve things, that there aren't players who fit the bill.

There are players out there who would improve the squad beyond those being replaced and those currently at the club.

Ultimately I believe there are spending constraints, you don't.

But £85m net on a £1billion turnover since 2015 is indicative. I fear 2018 wasn't actually an averaging up of the break even under Klopp to the lower end of acceptable levels of £30m a season, but was in fact a high point from which we may well start to average down again.

Ultimately I think that Klopp's ability to get more out of the net spend than other's would, is a reason to increase that net spend and yield a medium term trophy dividend. But I believe FSG prefer an immediate financial dividend.

1. It is a change of tack. We have operated under a policy of spending money only when it is necessary to do so, and setting an incredibly high bar (in terms of player suitability) before spending anything. You are advocating spending money for the sake of spending money. By making the objective ‘spend more money’ you’re ignoring small matters like ‘does the manager want/need more money’ and ‘is there someone available it would be worth spending money on’.

2. I don’t understand how you can use the success of Klopp to advocate spending more money, when the man himself has said he views the market as a last resort and prefers to explore in-house solutions before going there. If you respect Klopp, respect his methods and stop going on about money :tongue:

Member

I don't think Brewster is 100% ready to fill in for our front 3 and start games straight away next season,but i never said he'd be our only option to cover Sturridge when he leaves in the summer either,although i wouldn't be suprised if Klopp started to use Brewster as a Sturridge replacement,the kid needs game time,he can play out wide and forward plus has speed and finishing ability,he's of more use to us than an experienced Sturridge,who's hardly used and when called upon,doesn't really fit into our style of play or change the game and is pretty static.

I was just comparing the situation you said about using Adam Lewis at LB to cover Moreno when he leaves.I'd be more comfortable using Brewster in the last 10-15mins of a game in the Mane/Salah role,even if we were still 0-0 against a Chelsea type side,than i would be using Lewis at LB atm,but IF Klopp decided that he'd use Brewster and Lewis as those types of options,then who am i to say he's wrong,obviously he'd be the one on the training ground coaching them and seeing how good they are on a daily basis,to give them game time and bring more youth through the ranks.

LBs do not get brought on to change games though. Strikers and wide men do or AM types. Lewis is more than ok as substitute LB especially if we keep Milner or buy a CB who can cover LB. Striker to replace Sturridge has to be able to replace any of our front 3 and lead the line as our main attacking force. Brewster is not ready for that yet.