Discuss: Chefs reluctant to cook steaks beyond medium

After thirty plus years in the restaurant business, I am still amazed at many chefs being reluctant to cook beef beyond Medium without an attitude. It’s seems to anger many, even more than when a vegetarian comes into an establishment.

My opinion is and always has been that we are in the hospitality business, so let’s be hospitable and if that is what they request, then cook all the flavor out of that beautiful steak and even let them put A1 sauce on it to totally camouflage any remnant of flavor, if any remains. (We know there is none!)

Hopefully, the restaurant knows how to price their food and if a customer has been raised to enjoy beef well done, then let’s take his $30 (and $6 tip, servers) for the $8 cut of beef that the buyer purchased and more importantly, do it with joy. Who are we to judge? Just smile and cook the darn steak and quit your complaining!

Sure. That seems obvious. But if a chef believes a well-done steak is an inferior product and doesn’t want his name and restaurant to be associated with bad food, I can understand the reluctance. Isn’t that akin to asking a Ferrari dealer to paint your brand-new, $250,000 458 Italia Pepto-Bismol pink and put $50 Chinese tires on it?

Folks?

Steve Barnes

92 Responses

As someone who used to be a server, I used to warn people when they asked for any meat well done, whether it was a burger or steak. I would say at least half of the time someone asked for their meat well done they would complain that it was cooked to much or dry.

Some like black coffee, some light and sweet. I find most places don’t cook the steak as you ask for anyway. Different steaks, I like cooked differently. Even at home. Don’t get me started on burgers!!!!

The chefs should be lobbying the government to get out of the food business. When I lived in Virginia you couldn’t even GET meat or eggs cooked at anything LESS than medium-well (or less than well done in some places) because the government is afraid you’re going to get sick! Enough with the nanny statism already! X(

My mother orders everything well done for fear of bacteria. I tried explaining that, with steak, the center hasn’t been exposed to air and is perfectly safe to eat rare. When I was finally old enough to cook for her, I grilled her a medium rare steak…it took a lot of prodding but when she finally tried it, it was like she’d never tried steak before and it was the best thing she’d ever eaten.

Would it do any good for the chef or waiter to figure out *why* someone would order their steak well done? I’m in agreement with Steve that a chef may feel that a well done steak is an inferior product. Because is it really a preference? Steak is dry and stringy when well-done, maybe it’s just me, but I can’t imagine someone thinking that is better than medium.

This is not necessarily true any longer. For some time now, a sizable chunk of American beef is needle tenderized, and those needles can and do bring bacteria from the surface of the meat to the inside.

“About a quarter of the beef sold in the U.S. is tenderized by manufacturers using needles or blades, an unlabeled treatment that regulators say contributes to contamination with E. coli and other pathogens.”

Mechanically tenderized meat is not currently labeled, you have no idea which meat is and which meat isn’t, but in 2014 it will be labeled.

“Beginning as soon as next year, companies will have to disclose on their labels whether their raw or partially cooked steaks, roasts and other cuts of beef have been “mechanically tenderized,” the U.S. Department of Agriculture proposed today. The labels will also have to include cooking instructions to help protect consumers.”

Within reason, the chef should be willing to accommodate a customer’s request; however, a passionate chef should communicate with his waitstaff to recommend the presentation as conceived, and fully disclose to the customer that, since the dish wasn’t designed with that level of preparation in mind, it may not be as appealing as it would without the special request.

Most of the chefs I’ve encountered recently have not been so passionate to outright refuse the request.

I’m sorry, but I want my steaks cooked at least medium well. Yes, I have heard the warnings from well-meaning servers, but I find less well-cooked meat disgusting and am usually perfectly happy with my food. The first, middle and last rule of the restaurant business? The customer is always right.

Me, I like what I have heard called a chicken steak, and know by sight(Blade?). Spice it heavy and broil until well. Chewy, yes, but full of flavor for sure. Tbone rare. Rib pink. I had one burger all summer cooked as I asked. That was one tasty burger, and Browns brewing was the location. When I order rare burgers, and ask the wait staff if they understand what I am asking for, it always comes out WELL DONE. If I wanted well, I would ask for it, just like my steaks.

Try the chicken steak as I said, and don’t pound it, just chew and enjoy.

It is not the ego business so listen to your customer and cook the steak as requested. Without happy loyal/repeat customers, you are out of business. My issue is when the kithcen can not execute a simple medium rare piece of meat – why ask if you can not execute consistently or plan to ignore customer request anyway.

There are exceptions such as a chef tasting menu which should state clearly that no special requests and or substitutions will be allowed.

When I worked at a restaurant, what I failed to understand is why those that ordered their steak well-done, would still choose to order the more expensive steaks on the menu. By cooking it so much, you lose a lot of what made the steak to expensive to begin with, so if that is not enjoyable to you, why order the most expensive steak on the menu well done, if not just for the purpose of posturing?

Its a broad brush stroke question. In general I would say give the customer what they want. But then its another story if Carlo Mirarchi refuses to cook his 50 Plus day dry aged wagyu to well.Depends on the restaurant your dining at. If your in the 90% serving a run of the mill choice New York Strip with baked potato then get over yourself and cook it to order.

While I agree with “steakums”, I also agree with the “customer is always right policy”.

Follow up question; Being that certain but’s of beef are more expensive than others, if a Chef didn’t refuse to cook your steak well done but instead used a different cut(thereby saving the restaurant money and his/her reputation) would that be as offensive? More?

I eat my steak rare so I cannot begin to assume I know what I am talking about, however I would think that well done steak is a well done steak and that cut of beef would not matter nearly as much as it would if cooked rare. Is that fair?

Wrong again Mr. Blow Blow Blow Willie – many restaurants state they are not responsible for UNDER COOKED food if ordered anything less then well done or certain temp – Due to government issued guidelines of course – For what it’s worth I like my steak Medium regardless of cut.

“Many restaurants have on their menu’s something like ‘Not responsible for steaks ordered Medium Well or Well Done.’ As I do not like shoe leather or “hockey pucks,” I order my steaks Medium Rare or Medium.”

Please note, before getting all hung up on this person’s defective grammar and heading down another “Willie blew it” path: I am NOT COMMENTING here on grammar. This is merely to convince you that you haven’t a clue what you’re saying – not now, and not in about 75% of your postings.

The expensive car with a pink paint job is an extreme example. Service people should make sure of the customers request, then make it to order. Some folks just like their food cooked to ruin, so let them. I drove truck with a guy who ordered (truckstops) fish every Friday, cooked to death! But with his 3 beers, I doubt he tasted it anyway.

“beer gut” (#3), I’m from Missouri and you have to show me. Just where is the Virginia law that says chefs have to cook at least medium well? I believe, in Ira Gershwin’s words, it “ain’t existin’ on the land or on the sea.” I think your chef just wanted an excuse to be lazy.

Some people from some countries, cultures, or backgrounds are not comfortable eating anything less than medium-well. That translates into how their tastes develop. As a professional cook for many years I had trouble acknowledging this at first but learned to respect these tastes and preferences even if I wouldn’t eat a steak medium-well.

I don’t see any problem with a chef putting on the menu “We don’t cook beef beyond medium” at a nice restaurant any more than I see “no substitutions” often at a diner or greasy spoon. If a chef, like an artist, believes in the integrity of their cooking, their product, and the outcome, then it is up to the diner to pick something else to eat that night.

There is a reason its called “red meat”. If you want it that way and are paying the bill….No problem. Just dont complain that it was dry and tasteless. There was a similar question in Bon appetit this month…I’ll try to find the link.

I love my steak with a hint of mooo. The redder the better! Grilling my steaks on a lump hardwood charcoal grill some cuts to Pittsburg others hot hard sear then indirect heat is my preference. Most times the center isn’t even warm. My mouth is water thinking about it. Ever just cut a piece off when prepping it (letting it warm to room temp for even cooking) and eat it? Now i will have to eat a steak tonight. I rarely eat steak out because I almost always do it better. To each their own you want it like an f-150 go for it “Like a rock”

If the customer is offered a choice as to how they want their steak done then the chef should do it as requested. Otherwise the chef should just bring it out like he/she thinks it should be served with no choice.

It is never a great feeling to cook a quality piece of meat well done…..but it is even a worse feeling when you cannot make payroll on Friday. This is the time when Chef’s must temper art with good business sense. Hospitality must prevail and the guest should be able to eat what they want without feeling as if they are committing a crime. Cook it with a happy heart!

I think Thomas Keller has it right. Just cook the steak to your customer’s liking. The problem is that most chefs believe their customers don’t know what they want. Keller can be certain his customers know what they want so it’s not an issue for him. But in a restaurant with a chef who earnestly believes he knows more about what his customers want than his customers do, well, that is just trouble no matter how you look at it.

The fair compromise would be for the server to ask and confirm if the customer actually wants the steak cooked to shoe leather. I was out with a friend once who asked for medium rare but with no pink on the inside. What the hell was the server and chef supposed to do with that request? I intervened and ‘learned’ him on the spot that what he actually wanted was medium or medium well.

If you are going to cook the food the way the chef wants it rather than the customer, then put a warning on the menu. Who wants to go into a restaurant, sit down, have a drink, then discover that you can’t have the food cooked to your taste? As a matter of fact, put a sign on the door that says we don’t do meat well. Oh – was that an unintentional double entendre???

Having worked at many restaurants over many years, my experience has been that many chefs are pretentious ego maniacs. They often forget that they’re in the service industry and need to do what the paying customers asks for!

“John La Posta”(#29)Amen Brother, we should not only cook it with a happy heart, but do everything with a happy heart! It is good to hear a positive response from one of our local esteemed chefs, regarding Well done. Let’s hear some more from our pretentious ego maniacs, excuse me, I mean, local esteemed chefs. If we go way back to the Law in Genesis, we read “But you must not eat meat that has its lifeblood still in it.”
Who knows? Jesus might come into one of your restaurants and after he eats his steak, that some feel or think, is cooked too much or dry, shouldn’t we still cook it as ordered, with a happy heart and all strive to hear those heavenly seven words “Well done, my good and faithful servant!” when we present the check?

I like mine medium rare, but that is me. I also spent a few years cooking in a restaurant and if you are cooking say a rib eye or a New York Strip or the new rage a flat iron steak all of which are well marbled, if you are a competent chef you should be able to cook it to well and still have it be moist and flavorful it might not be juicy but the melted fat should keep it moist. Now fillet or sirloin which are lean cuts can end up dry and you hope those are being order if well with a sauce bearnaise or peppercorn to combat the chance of dryness.

When I come to a prime rib station, I always ask for the end cut. I like the gristle and the chewy part.

But if I am eating a good steak, I will order medium, making it clear that a little over medium is fine. I find that steaks tend to get slightly overcooked no matter what, and sometimes it’s just a matter of letting them sit for a minute.

I have had a similar experience to #3 in both NC and SC (can’t speak for VA)…but as I recall, it only related to ground beef (i.e. burgers). You could order a sirloin burger to your specifications, but anything of ‘lesser quality’ had to be at least medium-well.

I don’t recall that this was the case for steaks or in ‘more-upscale’ restaurants (I had a few wonderfully bloody steaks at the Angus Barn in Raleigh, for instance – what a wine list!) Perhaps it is just a ground beef thing…or just a chain restaurant thing.

But, seeing as I’m from New York; I will not show you – go find it yourself:)

I’m in the “med-rare” camp when it comes to steak. But there are a few cases where well done is really the thing. For ex. the end cut of a prime rib. It has all the spices and the crust and even well done it can be good. Likewise a lot of barbeque places offer what they call “burnt ends” of brisket. It’s the end of a brisket and it’s really good; sometimes it is infused with enough fat to give it real flavor.

I have had a similar experience when ordering sea scallops. I love scallops,BUT I want them fully cooked , not cool and undone in the center.After a spate of cool scallops while dining out, a few years ago, while having lunch at the old Vanilla Bean in LAtham ,I specified to the waitress that I wanted my scallopa to be cooked all the way through and warm in the center. The chef came out to me to dissuade me.We had quite the exchange. In the end I got what I wanted after promising not to send them back if they were over done.

My advice to anyone going to the French Laundry or Per Se. You better tell the server the temperature you want because their not going to ask and you can believe they won’t serve it well done on their own. 🙂

Let them have their steak the way they want it. If they want it cooked to near cremation … fine. Just make sure the menu CLEARLY states “Not Responsible” when ordering steaks medium well or well done AND make certain every server is trained to remind anyone and everyone who orders a steak this way of the “Not Responsible” policy.

A USDA Prime cut of rib-eye, NY strip, Porterhouse or Filet Mignon should be served RARE … with a cool red center.

I like seeing Pittsburgh Rare as a cooking option on the menu. It usually means the kitchen knows how to properly prepare and serve fine cuts of beef.

Personally … I like my steak SO rare … a good vet could bring it back.

I travel all over the country and the world and have found different places have different perceptions on what wellness means. Here in upstate NY, most restaurants overlook no matter what you ask for, so here I have to order RARE to get even close to medium rare. In Chicago, they usually get it right as they also do in KC and most of Texas. Since steak IS the perfect food, it very important to NEVER cook it beyond a red cool center.

Not all palettes have the same education. I see where you were going with the car thing, but it just isn’t the same. I also think waiters need to chill out. A well done steak isn’t a travesty, it’s just a matter of taste. I saw a woman add wasabi to her soy sauce and dunk everything into that mixture at an omakase sushi bar. Should the chef there take away the soy sauce and wasabi since she was ‘ruining’ his efforts? I like everything practically raw. A raw egg in a tartare crater lights up pleasure centers in my brain. That said, I personally feel duck breast should be cooked to medium, where it has a nice chew. The texture is unpleasant when it’s rare. Same with rare steak. I think steaks should be warmed at least to the point where the intramuscular fat melts.

I would say 60% of the time that I order my steak medium, it actually comes out medium. Most of the time it’s over cooked and sometimes it’s under cooked. I think the customer should be able to order it the way they want. As an example, I don’t feel comfortable eating pork slightly pink, even though that’s becoming the trend. It has to be white, all the way through, if I’m going to eat it.

I don’t see how a chef can believe “a well-done steak is an inferior product”. I love raw beef, but I have a friend who prefers beef “cooked to death” because otherwise it just tastes like blood to her. If a restaurant refused to cook it well done, they would lose two customers.
#38 has a perfect example with the scallops, though my taste tends towards the raw.
As for the Ferrari, @ $250,00 I think you should get whatever damn color you want.

I prefer my steaks well-done. I have never once complained that it was bad because of it. I am asking for it that way because thats what I want. How is it your right to tell me how I like my food? Everyone has different tastes. To me anything below well is disgusting, it tastes like blood and the texture makes me gag. The other day I had a medium steak and literally gagged on it, I could not swallow it thats how gross it was to me. I had it put back in the oven and when it came out well done I loved it.

It really depends on the cut of meat, but I know if the fibers aren’t broken down enough and if it’s cooked blue or rare that the meat will be tougher than if it was cooked to Midrare. Any real chef should know this. I have a Texas friend and he says BLUE, but I say it’s tougher if it’s not cooked appropriately and maybe he was in Japan with me too long.

In different parts of our country customers like there beef cooked to how they were grown up on it. I personally learned as a chef that some people like their beef cooked well. That’s great and it’s actually cool to know what your customer wants if they are paying for it. Did anyone bring up the fact that a lot of African Americans like their beef cooked well. Sometimes it does taste great too, I just imagine myself as a cowboy over a pit, and think about western movies. On the scallops, just be very carefull where you are eating them. I love hatotegai but if they are too big they need too be cooked.

Let me explain it like this. I don’t know what you all do for a living…and to a large degree it doesn’t really matter.

But, imagine for a moment you are a carpenter or a wood working trade (say cabinet maker)… Someone pays you to build their house or cabinets or backyard gazebo. You put a great deal of EFFORT into the manufacture of that item. You use the best materials, spend hours on the tiny details. The customer pays you in full…tells you how happy they are with it… Then burns it to the ground. Smiling and happy all the way.

Why should you care? he paid you for it…so what?
it matters to you because you are passionate about your work…you take great pride in your efforts and product. So when someone (in YOUR opinion) destroys your work/product it hurts …just a little..inside.
You think to yourself why didn’t he just use balsa wood instead of teak or mahogany. Why build it just to ruin it?

Why?…because that’s what the customer wants…So we do it. But when I spend hours vetting product, then trimming and butchering and doing it all with my heart and passion so as to satisfy you (the customer). Only to have it requested to be grey and dry and crisp…it hurts just a little. We do it because that’s what you wanted….Doesn’t mean we have to be all happy and joyful about it.

As for Thomas Keller and his take on it…Good for him. We all have our opinions…he is entitled to his…and I to mine…and you to yours. Make no mistake…when you order a med-well to well done steak in a nice place…the cooks/chefs frown (inside …just a little). Even, I suspect, Thomas Keller >;)

On a side note…my experience is that more people send back or complain about med-well beef than any other temp. More than well-done and MUCH more than rare/ med-rare /or medium. Just FYI.

I don’t think the problem here is with a lack of understanding. I think everyone gets that restaurants take pride in their product. More metaphors aren’t really helping. Food tends to be a good metaphor for others things but are terrible metaphors in converse. For example: “I like my gazebos how I like my steak” works, where “I like my steaks how I like my gazebos” is a misfire.
There’s a lot of other foods that some people find revolting. Raw oysters, offal, stinky cheeses come immediately to mind. I think that everyone needs to lighten up and let well-done eaters alone to enjoy their weird thing just how we foodies are left alone to enjoy our sweetbreads and blue cheese thats more blue than cheese. I think it’s a vain affectation on the part of chefs and staff; a way to claim some sort of taste superiority.

A sad characteristic of American culture is that we are so selfish we demand everything to be conjured up according to our own personal tastes, all other considerations be damned.

A plate of food, like any creation, is a reflection of its creator. The creator has every right to protect the experience of that creation. If you’re at a restaurant where the chef has thoughtfully chosen each menu item, testing and experimenting along the way to find the right balance of foods and the most appropriate techniques, then requesting a steak done in a way averse to the chef’s tastes is like asking a director to recut his movie so it has more explosions and sex just because that’s what you want.

It’s insulting and dismissive of a chef to ask him or her to alter their meal so drastically. Removing flavor is drastic.

Every restaurant has a menu. If you don’t like what’s on the menu, you don’t eat there — everyone already practices that rule. Now, take it a step further; if a particular restaurant serves only rare and medium rare steak, and you like well-done steak, then that’s not a good restaurant for you, is it? With demand will come restaurants that serve well-done steak.

Chef Keller is right. Cook it the way the customer wants it. Give it the same care and attention. If it arrives and the customer doesn’t like that it’s dry or tough, they can’t send it back for another one or a refund. They own it. it’s too bad so many people don’t appreciate the way a steak should be cooked. I find that a London Broil cut , if medium rare and sliced on the bias is very tasteful and tender but not buttery. Let’s fee it if you’re ordering a Filet Mignon, you really don’t know much about steak. It’s the tenderest, but it’s also the least flavorful. But it’s much more flavorful if medium rare or at the most medium. In My opinion, that is.

Just cook it for them the way they want it and be disgusted in the back of the kitchen where they can’t see you. Oh and tell the public that you love cooking it for them however they like it, they like it when you blow smoke up their ass.

So since a craftsman or artisan built a house, and painted all the walls eggshell white since that was his or hers concept it would be wrong to have the walls painted another color? I think not. Get over yourself you are not an artist you are being paid to make my dinner and I should get what I asked for and more importantly paid for.

SKS, at a high end restaurant it is fair to call the chef an artist, there is an enormous gulf between them and the guy who pops out the beef at Outback Steakhouse. You are paying them to cook your meal because you don’t have either the skill or desire to cook it yourself (possibly both). I have no problem with a chef dictating this and if you disagree go somewhere else (granted I enjoy my steaks very rare, and I’m an easy going person who doesn’t feel delusionally entitled). When I was living in Virginia where it is difficult to get Rare meat, I conciously chose to order other things out and made my steaks at home the way I liked them because chefs wouldn’t cook them rare. Can it be inconvenient? sure, but this is life and everything is not fair.

since everyone is throwing out examples.. Going to Per Se and ordering a steak Well Done is like sitting for a portrait painting by Picasso and telling him you want it to look like Rembrandt.. sure, he could do it, but it’s not the way he wants his art to look or feel. So if you’re fine with crushing a very small part of someones soul for your satisfaction, by all means..

U.S. my niece is a graduate of the CIA and a chef I understand what they think they are, but I am telling you what they are, they are paid to prepare the meal I ordered and to my liking. Also stop wasting money on edible flowers I am not going to eat them I would rather you up my portion size by the equivilent cost savings from not putting the flowers on. I eat with my nose first, if it smells good I will eat it even if it looks like a plate of dog food, were as if it smells like sh*t but looks like art I am not eating it!

There is a reason it is called the Service or Hospitality Industry! Stop already and give the people what they want and paid for.

Ha Ha, Love it SiestaKeySaint! I also think referring to a chef as an artist is a big stretch. It’s one of those terms thrown around all too loosely these days, like “genius”. This chef’s an “artist” or culinary “Genius”. Please people. If cooking a steak well done “crushes a very small part” of the chef’s soul, then I think they’re going to have a big problem navigating the many other pitfalls of everyday life. Just cook, you’re not an artist, a skilled craftsman maybe, but not an artist.

SKS, I’m not disagreeing (or disagreeing) with your opinion of chefs. I’m just QUOTING YOU DIRECTLY: “I should get what I asked for and more importantly paid for.” You are implying that a chef would give you something OTHER than what you asked for, or that you would have PAID for something before they gave it to you. Tell me, SKS, do you often pay for your meals at restaurants before you receive them? You must be eating at a lot of Old Country Buffets, then.

Maybe a chef considers him/herself an “artist”, and if so I hope (s)he will perform splendidly in his(er) function as a provider of what the customer wants. I have no objection to receiving suggestions about my (not very complicated) food demands. But for a chef to get all temperamental is not good.

Josho no OCB or the like here on Siesta Key or Sarasota for that matter. I tend to frequent locally owned, but hopefully not necessarily locally grown because that just adds cost and very little value. I want the most bang for my buck. And to just further the not being an artist thing most of the best meals, creative and great tasting have been the brainchild of people calling themselves “Cooks” not “Chefs”.

“But if a chef believes a well-done steak is an inferior product and doesn’t want his name and restaurant to be associated with bad food…”

In my opinion, a chef’s assessment of a superior/inferior product is (and should be) made when the food is raw, upon purchase. Once cooked, however, the responsibility for appraisal shifts to the customer. If a customer orders a prime cut of steak well-done, and it comes out medium rare, he may view the product as inferior (or bad) regardless of its initial quality – and would be right to do so because t’s not the product he ordered.

#72, With that advice I’m sure chefs will enjoy the drastically lower food cost. No longer will there be a need for pork from Bev Eggleston, beef from Snake River Farms, lamb from Keith Martin etc.etc. What a relief.