I'll try and be direct for once. I ask not just for myself but for the community as a whole who seem to be frustrated often by "not seeing what is going on"

What is and isn't ok to ask as a Non-cert ref?

What is and isn't OK to answer by Cert refs to Non-certs?

Is there a way in which a non-cert ref can be told that the information they seek is currently discussed and is under NDA?

I like to be a synced as possible with the community as a whole but it is difficult when the community is so varied, and direct questions to WFTDA take a long time (yes i know why, WFTDA has a small staff handling thousands of emails. I have and still do offer to help if they would have me, I would make this a career if I thought I could make a living at it, I digress)

In the end I would like to know what can and can't be asked of whom and how to not come across as one of the legions of skaters and officials [non-charter and Non-Cert] who seem to "blame" WFTDA instead of tying to help it (Which I would love to do btw).

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I play devils advocate a lot, it is always because I desire a complete understanding of the rule/scenario. I do make changes to my reffing often as a direct result of discussions resulting in a consensus. Particularly if it is contrary to my previous understanding.

The much more important distinction than "certified vs. non-certified" is "WFTDA-Affiliated" vs. "Not WFTDA-Affiliated." All skaters and officials affiliated with a WFTDA league have to sign the WFTDA Non Disclosure Agreement. Once they have signed that agreement, confidential information presented on internal forums can be shared with them, and they agree not to share it outside of people who have ALSO signed the NDA.

Almost all certified officials are affiliated with WFTDA leagues, so the fact that they are certified isn't really relevant in most cases.

For the few certified, independent officials, part of the certification process IS signing the NDA and agreeing to maintain confidentiality. They are also granted access to the internal forums.

I'm going to answer your specific questions as they apply to folks who have signed the NDA, since that's the critical distinction:

"What is and isn't OK to ask as a non-NDA ref? What can NDA refs tell non-NDA refs? Is there a way to tell non-NDA refs that the information they're looking for is currently under discussion?"

You can ASK whatever you want, and please don't hesitate to do so. NDA folks will let you know what they can and cannot share. In general, the contents of discussions on the internal forums are private, and when something is ready to be shared publicly, it will be. That said, if something is discussed to death internally, and a consensus emerges, it is likely that officials who have read the discussion will then express that consensus *as their own personal opinion only* in public. That's not disclosing private information. Rather, it's forming your own opinion based on internal discussion, and then presenting it without any imprimatur or claim of official status.

Honestly, the only way to really help directly would be to affiliate with a WFTDA league. (since cert is presently on a much-needed hiatus)

The much more important distinction than "certified vs. non-certified" is "WFTDA-Affiliated" vs. "Not WFTDA-Affiliated." All skaters and officials affiliated with a WFTDA league have to sign the WFTDA Non Disclosure Agreement. Once they have signed that agreement, confidential information presented on internal forums can be shared with them, and they agree not to share it outside of people who have ALSO signed the NDA.

See this is new information to me. I was unaware that refs affiliated with a charter league also had access this this information.

Honestly, the only way to really help directly would be to affiliate with a WFTDA league. (since cert is presently on a much-needed hiatus)

Derailing my own thread a bit, It is even possible to become affiliated from 200+ miles away from the nearest league?

« Last Edit: December 06, 2016, 01:49:07 am by llama of death »

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I play devils advocate a lot, it is always because I desire a complete understanding of the rule/scenario. I do make changes to my reffing often as a direct result of discussions resulting in a consensus. Particularly if it is contrary to my previous understanding.

See this is new information to me. I was unaware that refs affiliated with a charter league also had access this this information.

Most of what WFTDA does is oriented toward their member leagues. To use a business metaphor, their primary customer base are their member leagues. So that's whom they direct the bulk of their energy and communication.

Every member league has two officiating representatives to WFTDA (apprentice leagues get one). For what it's worth, not every officiating rep does a good job bringing back information to their ref crews. So even the officials with member league refs don't always learn what's going on in a timely manner.

Unfortunately, chartering is not something they [both leagues] are interested in. They where at one point but where deterred by the process requirements and costs.

There is one 75mi away that says they are working on it again but we'll see what their requirements of me would be to affiliate.

In the end the skaters around here just want to play and I want to provide a quality officiated experience to them because it feels good to see them have fun playing.

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I play devils advocate a lot, it is always because I desire a complete understanding of the rule/scenario. I do make changes to my reffing often as a direct result of discussions resulting in a consensus. Particularly if it is contrary to my previous understanding.

In the end the skaters around here just want to play and I want to provide a quality officiated experience to them because it feels good to see them have fun playing.

That's totally cool! You should be proud of that. And you're doing the right thing by asking lots of questions here and on FB, since a lot of local refs in your position don't even to bother to do that.