What's European Soccer's labor situation? Is that what you have in mind when you consider a world without unions? Because they also benefit from extreme demand for their product that the NHL doesn't have. I think the CBA/Union is essential to giving the bottom half of the league stability to know it can keep doing business. Without any path to profitability since richer teams would simply steal their talent I don't think they could operate and would have to close down meaning fewer jobs for players.

European soccer does not have unions or collective bargaining. I do agree that they benefit from being the only game in town. Still, there's enough talent to go around - it would just mean some teams would have little to no chance at the Stanley Cup. I am not sure how player transfers work. I'm not in love with soccer's situation at all and I think the geography of the nations where soccer is most passionately followed helps a lot (you can be a fan of any team and be within easy travel of seeing them live), but on the plus side, they don't have lockouts there.

European soccer does not have unions or collective bargaining. I do agree that they benefit from being the only game in town. Still, there's enough talent to go around - it would just mean some teams would have little to no chance at the Stanley Cup. I am not sure how player transfers work. I'm not in love with soccer's situation at all and I think the geography of the nations where soccer is most passionately followed helps a lot (you can be a fan of any team and be within easy travel of seeing them live), but on the plus side, they don't have lockouts there.

On a purely humorous note, having just spent a whole year in Europe...one thing they are not short of is unions and strikes.

European soccer does not have unions or collective bargaining. I do agree that they benefit from being the only game in town. Still, there's enough talent to go around - it would just mean some teams would have little to no chance at the Stanley Cup. I am not sure how player transfers work. I'm not in love with soccer's situation at all and I think the geography of the nations where soccer is most passionately followed helps a lot (you can be a fan of any team and be within easy travel of seeing them live), but on the plus side, they don't have lockouts there.

Oh there is definitly a players and managers union in football, but it is basically useless because players these days and their agents hold all the bargining power anyway.

Until UEFA fully brings in financial fair play (which i believe they intend to do, but it will be cirumvented pretty easily) the unions will continue to remain useless, and players and their agents will be able to demand whatever they want, because there will always be somone willing to pay.

There really damn should be. There's something wrong when the same 2-3 teams have been winning the league cups in each country for decades now. There's little-to-no mobility, not a level playing field at all, not really fun to watch for about 90% of other teams' fanbases, and you can see that attendance is dwindling in a lot of countries..

To add to that, just imagine the NHL if Detroit Red Wings, Chicago Blackhawks, and New York Rangers were the alternating winners of the Stanley Cup year after year for 4 decades.

Why do I have a bad, sinking feeling that Donald Fehr and company will ask for the sun, moon, stars and everything else and will put us back to square one instead of building off the NHL offer from Tuesday?

Why do I have a bad, sinking feeling that Donald Fehr and company will ask for the sun, moon, stars and everything else and will put us back to square one instead of building off the NHL offer from Tuesday?

Because Fehr is a giant A-hole. The players hired him know what he is all about and he has been gearing for this fight for the past 2 years. Based upon my layman's reading and interpretation of the owner's recent proposal, it seems pretty fair and addresses most fo the concerns the players had stated previously. If Fehr convinces the players that he can get a dramatically better deal than this, and they refuse to negotiate off of what the owner's have presented, I think we won't see any NHL hockey this season.

Why do I have a bad, sinking feeling that Donald Fehr and company will ask for the sun, moon, stars and everything else and will put us back to square one instead of building off the NHL offer from Tuesday?

I had a lot of hope that the NHL had made a huge step to get this resolved, and that it would lead to real talks with a conclusion shortly to follow. But now I'm getting that same feeling you are about Fehr.

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Because Fehr is a giant A-hole. The players hired him know what he is all about and he has been gearing for this fight for the past 2 years. Based upon my layman's reading and interpretation of the owner's recent proposal, it seems pretty fair and addresses most fo the concerns the players had stated previously. If Fehr convinces the players that he can get a dramatically better deal than this, and they refuse to negotiate off of what the owner's have presented, I think we won't see any NHL hockey this season.

I think the majority of players would like to work off of this deal and come to a conclusion quickly that is at least somewhat reasonsable for both sides.

I think it will be Fehr's ego that will put the kibosh on that and will walk into today's meeting with a list of demands he knows the owners cannot meet and we will be back to square one.

I had a lot of hope that the NHL had made a huge step to get this resolved, and that it would lead to real talks with a conclusion shortly to follow. But now I'm getting that same feeling you are about Fehr.

After what happened during the last lockout, the players wanted a guy who was basically a pitbull in negotiations. Now they have them and while some of the players might be pleased with what he is doing for them, I have a feeling based on the quotes I see from players that a good portion of the rank and file players are more willing to compromise than Fehr is probably willing to do himself.

I think the majority of players would like to work off of this deal and come to a conclusion quickly that is at least somewhat reasonsable for both sides.

I think it will be Fehr's ego that will put the kibosh on that and will walk into today's meeting with a list of demands he knows the owners cannot meet and we will be back to square one.

Unfortunately, I think you are right. Amazingly, if that happens, all of the good will the players had on their side in this battle will likely dissipate as most foresaw a 50/50 spilt of HRR being the basis for a deal.

Big day today boys...hopefully NHLPA wont screw this up.

They will. When it comes to NHL hockey (whether it be the players or owners), when does the right and logical thing ever happen?

I am 1,000 % sure that seeing as how Don Fehr is running things, the players will fvck this up, submit an insulting counter-proposal that serves to just piss the owners off, and we'll be back to square one. Trust me, I haven't forgotton the baseball strike. This piece of sh!t was the reason there was no World Series for the first time since electricity was invented, so you have to understand just what type of egomaniacal, gluttonous fvckstick we're dealing with here.

I am 1,000 % sure that seeing as how Don Fehr is running things, the players will fvck this up, submit an insulting counter-proposal that serves to just piss the owners off, and we'll be back to square one. Trust me, I haven't forgotton the baseball strike. This piece of sh!t was the reason there was no World Series for the first time since electricity was invented, so you have to understand just what type of egomaniacal, gluttonous fvckstick we're dealing with here.