Last night we put our 5 up against one of their 4's. Our guy is a decent player but couldn't control whitey if he had it on a leash. He shoots too hard, never looks at the lay of the table and chalk seems to be a foriegn substance reserved for use only after a miscue. Point: a solid lower tier S/L-5.

Their 4 wins the lag and proceeds to run the first rack from the break. Next game he puts on a table-length-draw clinic and in his third and final win, he demonstrates his ability for precise banks, kicks and negative cut shots. Point: shouldn't have been anything near a S/L-4. This gentleman was a solid 6, perhaps even a 7.

This team has a reputation for sandbagging and recruiting players new to the APA but not new to the game. Now I realize men can come into the APA at a S/L-4 rating but come on! When does one set the desire for a trophy aside and demonstrate some moral character and come in at the level they know they play at?

It just sort of takes the fun out of it for someone who is playing at their true skill level.

The APA: "American Partypoopers Association."

Regards,

Ken

Vapros

09-02-2003, 05:47 AM

All handicapped competition, in any sport, has sandbaggers to deal with. It's inevitable. If you want to play eight ball on bar tables while you drink your beer, you will have to get used to it. It comes with the league franchise.

jjinfla

09-02-2003, 05:58 AM

Don't be such a crybaby.

jjinfla

09-02-2003, 05:59 AM

Besides, the guy was probably trained by Fast Larry and sent there just to P%%% you off.

Rich R.

09-02-2003, 06:00 AM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Vapros:</font><hr> All handicapped competition, in any sport, has sandbaggers to deal with. It's inevitable. If you want to play eight ball on bar tables while you drink your beer, you will have to get used to it. It comes with the league franchise. <hr /></blockquote>
Although I agree with your comment on sandbaggers, I have to ask, why do you think that all league players play on bar tables and drink beer? FYI, there are many leagues playing on 9' Gold Crowns, or similar tables. Of course, the beer is optional. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Ken, it's APA and I'm sure you're used to it. Just grin and bear it because next time he'll be a 6 or 7.

Kato~~~6 or 7 /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

SPetty

09-02-2003, 07:32 AM

Hi rackmup,

Didn't you join APA as a 4? You gotta start somewhere...

Fred Agnir

09-02-2003, 07:35 AM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote rackmup:</font><hr>
This team has a reputation for sandbagging and recruiting players new to the APA but not new to the game. Now I realize men can come into the APA at a S/L-4 rating but come on! When does one set the desire for a trophy aside and demonstrate some moral character and come in at the level they know they play at?<hr /></blockquote>

I'll play devil's advocate. If he was "sandbagging," then why didn't he miss shots to make sure his innings were high enough?

Here's a story, that may or may not be related. Many moons ago, I was watching my teamate (a piss poor SL-4) playing an SL-3. My player broke, ran several balls and scratched on the 8-ball. Then, the SL-3 broke and ran the next rack. Match over. 2-0. Zero innings.

Now, the "sandbagging" chant started. However, to me, it made no sense. Why would a "sandbagger" hit us with a zero inning match? The truth is, the guy was an SL-3, and not much better. Nothing about his patterns or shotmaking suggested anything else. The first rack was a scratch on the 8-ball. The second rack, he broke them well and fell on a leave every shot. It happens. This was the one night in his life that he shot like a god for one rack. And, because of the nature of leagues in general, other "pool players" didn't allow him to have his moment in the sun.

Here's another story. The owner of the bar that I used to play out of was a real character. Loud mouth and brash. He always used to say "I ain't seen nothing (out of the league players) that I can't beat." He was known as something of a bar player, but in my experience, he represents every other decent bar player who had never stepped into the ring. It's great to be the king of your own home.

Anyway, he finally joined a team and as luck would have it, his first night he played our team. I matched myself up against him. As a new player, he started as an SL-4. In the past, a new player would simply play a race to 3, but that's not how we did it, so maybe the rules are that a new plays his first match as an SL-4 and that's that. To make a long story shorter, I smoked him without much incident. The next week, he played as an SL-3 and lost to another very strong player. So, his entire first session, he worked his way up starting as an SL-3, finally finishing the season as an SL-5. Last I saw him, he was an SL-6.

Anyway, his pride wouldn't have allowed him to sandbag. But, the way a new player's handicap works, and the unfortunate event of having to play a stronger player in the first few weeks caused him to play at a lower handicap. I'm sure other players he played on the way were pretty upset, but if the LO were to manipulate his handicap based on the rumor that he was some kind of bar player, then that, IMO, would be a worse mistake for the leage then to just let the chips fall.

Hope this helps somehow,

Fred

Vapros

09-02-2003, 07:42 AM

I stand corrected. Although I have never seen such a league, I have heard of them. It was just a poorly-chosen generalization. I'll do better next time.

Tom_In_Cincy

09-02-2003, 07:52 AM

Fred,
I know what you're talking about.

After a layoff of 5 years APA teams I rejoined in the early 90s.

This was an APA inhouse league, the LO owned the pool hall and ran weekly tournaments. I had won some of the tournamets or at least finished in the money consistantly.

The first nite of the APA league, instead of qualifying, he made me a 7. My team mates were pissed, but it didn't really matter. I won all my matches that session, including beating the LO twice (his only two losses) It was a weak league. There were only two SL6 and two SL7 in 8 teams. Mostly couples out for a good time on a weekly basis. I still have some good friends from that league.

jjinfla

09-02-2003, 08:16 AM

You hit the nail on the head Fred. After he gets a bunch of games in the computer his handicap will settle down. And even then on any given night a player can play above or below his handicap. That is just the nature of the beast.

A new 4 can control his handicap for a while but it all catches up the longer he plays. He does have to win his match if he wants to help the team and when you win enough matches you will be moved up. And in practice when a player gets to the table he really is trying to win, just can't, and it looks like he is missing on purpose.

But just think about it. A 7 has no need to sandbag, he has to win every time he plays or else he is no good to the team. A 6 is in no man's land. If dropped off the team he will have a hard time finding another team unless he starts one himself. No team wants a 6. His best bet is to try and become a 7. No way they will drop him to a 5. 1,2 or 3 - Just have no clue. No need to try and sandbag, they are just beginners.

4's and 5's probably have the best opportunity to sandbag just to remain where they are. But they still have to win their match if they want to help the team. They can control their handicap for a while, but after some time it all catches up with them.

But for the most part the 4's and 5's I see out there really are 4's and 5's. They, just like the rest of us, miss shots.

Of course I have found that in 9-ball it is easier to control/extend innings and thereby hopefully retain your 4 rating. But you still have to win matches, and eventually you will move up.

And out of all the people I know here who play in the APA I really have no argument against any of their handicaps. Somedays they just play better than other days.

Jake

Fran Crimi

09-02-2003, 08:42 AM

Ken, I'm sure you know:

Handicapped team leagues = sandbagging.

I used to date a pro bowler who was in a high level handicapped league and I went with him every week to watch. EVERY team sandbagged, even though it was 'technically' illegal. They all knew it going into the league, and they all accepted it as part of the 'game.'

Some are so good at it that they turn it into an art form.

Is there anything you can do about it? Unfortunately, no. You can't prove that someone isn't just having a bad night, nor can you prove that someone isn't having an exceptional night.

I learned a long time ago that the choices are either to stay honest and accept the liklihood of being on a losing team, join the game and sandbag, or not play in handicapped leagues. I chose option 3. I don't like to sandbag, and I don't like to lose because another team is rated lower than they deserve, so I don't play in handicapped team leagues.

That's life. /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Fran

09-02-2003, 09:46 AM

Jimmy B

09-02-2003, 11:00 AM

Ken it doesn't sound to me like he's a very good sand bagger, I mean [censored] the guy played his game. If you knew he could do this or saw him do it on a practice table but then when he played your (overrated) 5 he kept it close and got innings I could see why you'd be mad. Maybe the guy was new and his SL hasn't caught up to him yet, circle his name and write a note, but I think your better bet would be to work on getting your player moved down. Most LO love to move people up so they want you to complain, what team captains need to do is get there players moved down, it will help the player compete and it will help the team stay under the 23 rule and stay together. By complaining and getting people moved up you fall right into the APA pyramid scam. They love you for that. JB

Jimmy B

09-02-2003, 11:08 AM

Hey Wolf it sounds like you're bragging about this Blue card idea, read my last post and you'll see how it's falling right into the LO's hands. What it does is help him grow and earn more money, how bout a pink card that you can "presto" a guy down a spot? I mean if everyone bitches about each other pretty soon everyone is over capped, it'll still be even, but when you hit higher level tournaments you'll be dead in the water, not counting the fact that the team won't be able to field. JB

Wally_in_Cincy

09-02-2003, 11:37 AM

Ken,

I feel your pain but I tend to agree with Fred. After reading his thoughts on this subject for a couple years and watching these things first-hand I have severely curtailed my complaints about too-low handicaps. The fact is sometimes a guy just has a good night.

I have had nights where I played at the level of a strong 6. Maybe 4 nights out of the last 50. But there is no way I could actually play as a 6 and have a chance to beat the true 6's consistently. Trouble is, folks remember the nights I played good and forget the nights I played like a 3.

If this guy is really that good he will go up soon, trust me. I know a gal who is notorious for recruiting B level players to the APA. They kick ass as 4's but by the time the city tourney comes around their handicaps are so high they can hardly field a team, much less expect to win.

Steve Lipsky

09-02-2003, 12:15 PM

Hi Ken. I agree with Fred too. Was there anything special about that week's league that would make him come out of sandbagging mode - and into his "play-my-best" mode? If not, it doesn't make much sense to me why you would've seen his best game - while most other teams get to watch him dump.

But the real evidence lies with what you saw. How did he run out? You've seen top players, Ken. Was it as someone else here mentioned - he just happened to fall on every leave (or fall on a few key ones, anyway)? Did it look like a good, confident out, or was he struggling all the way?

Last night we put our 5 up against one of their 4's. Our guy is a decent player but couldn't control whitey if he had it on a leash. He shoots too hard, never looks at the lay of the table and chalk seems to be a foriegn substance reserved for use only after a miscue. Point: a solid lower tier S/L-5.

Their 4 wins the lag and proceeds to run the first rack from the break. Next game he puts on a table-length-draw clinic and in his third and final win, he demonstrates his ability for precise banks, kicks and negative cut shots. Point: shouldn't have been anything near a S/L-4. This gentleman was a solid 6, perhaps even a 7.

Regards,

Ken <hr /></blockquote>

I know that areas are different, but I have not heard of a sl5 with out cue ball control. In our league, a player with no shape and no finess would be a sl3-sl4. Geez.

As far as the sandbaggers, I remember back when I got mad about that. Now, the better I get,the worse those players look, and I wonder if they were ever sandbagging at all.

As far as the 'blue card' ww speaks of, that seems more like a personality contest to me. Like we dont like him, so let's vote him up. I am sure that there are a few exceptions, and have seen one or two, but in the year I have been in apa, it seems the computer eventually takes care of things.

Also not sure that the APA is the best league. The others like BCA interest me too.

Laura

rackmup

09-02-2003, 03:09 PM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Steve Lipsky:</font><hr> Did it look like a good, confident out, or was he struggling all the way?<hr /></blockquote>

He was strong all the way. He knew what he was doing from the break to the last reverse angle bank.

Sandbagger from the word "go."

I'm assuming they were trying to edge up a notch in the standings (only one week remains in this session) and his best play was needed and that is what he gave.

Regards,

Ken

rackmup

09-02-2003, 03:18 PM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ww:</font><hr>With this system in place, I will repeat that the APA league is the BEST handicapped league to play in, period. Perhaps you should stop crying in your beer.<hr /></blockquote>

We don't have the sheets you speak of. If we wish to protest a player, it involves a simple note at the bottom of the score sheet. Perhaps they give you an additional sheet to write on as your elementary school-level pensmanship prevents you from writing in such a confined space. Don't worry, with practice it will get easier.

As for "crying in my beer"...well son, let's just say that's a felony in the state of Texas and I would never think of doing such a thing.

Nope! I knew I wasn't a 4 so I joined as a 6...I was equal in skill level to an existing 6 on the team I joined so that is what I thought would be fair.

Regards,

Ken

rackmup

09-02-2003, 03:29 PM

I never cried. I never even pouted. I didn't even allow my emotions to show. Okay...I did threaten to hold my breath.

Regards,

Ken

rackmup

09-02-2003, 03:34 PM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Vapros:</font><hr> If you want to play eight ball on bar tables while you drink your beer<hr /></blockquote>

Thank God for one thing...we don't play on bar tables. We do drink beer though.

Regards,

Ken

rackmup

09-02-2003, 03:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Ken, it's APA and I'm sure you're used to it. Just grin and bear it because next time he'll be a 6 or 7.<hr /></blockquote>

Thank God for the voice of sanity and not the attempted justification of sandbagging, reasons for sandbagging, talk of bar tables and the option of drinking beer, as if that were an option.

My boy Kato...comin' through in the bottom of the ninth, tie score and a runner on third as he dumps a blooper into the gap.

Regards,

Ken

Steve Lipsky

09-02-2003, 04:42 PM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote rackmup:</font><hr>Thank God for one thing...we don't play on bar tables. We do drink beer though.

Regards,

Ken <hr /></blockquote>

Oh, Ken... that changes everything. If this guy's running out like tap water on a 9-footer, I agree with you - he's no 4. Maybe a good-laying rack - once in a blue moon - but not the way you described. Definitely not a 4.

And kudos to you for entering as a 6.

- Steve

dg-in-centralpa

09-02-2003, 07:25 PM

I used to shoot in a valley 8 ball and 9 ball league. Even with their handicap system there were always sandbaggers. My captain wanted me to throw a game to keep my handicap down( the match had already been won), cause we were giving too many points away each round. I told him to "Pi$$ Off" and won the game. This league is no longer a handicap league. All the leagues I play in are straight up. Each game is worth a point and is important at the end of the season for the final standings. We have no more sandbagging, period.

DG - who lost money at Casino Niagara

Fran Crimi

09-02-2003, 07:31 PM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote rackmup:</font><hr>
Thank God for the voice of sanity and not the attempted justification of sandbagging, reasons for sandbagging, talk of bar tables and the option of drinking beer, as if that were an option.

My boy Kato...comin' through in the bottom of the ninth, tie score and a runner on third as he dumps a blooper into the gap.

Regards,

Ken <hr /></blockquote>

Oh, I get it now. It wasn't a question. It was a quiz.

Fran ~~ Foiled again. /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

rackmup

09-02-2003, 08:34 PM

Fran,

You too, are a voice of sanity.

Regards,

Ken (hears a lot of voices)

Qtec

09-03-2003, 02:23 AM

[ QUOTE ]
All the leagues I play in are straight up. Each game is worth a point and is important at the end of the season for the final standings. We have no more sandbagging, period.

<hr /></blockquote>

Exactly, every point counts.

Over here we play 6 matches. 2-9b,2-8b and 2-14/1.
Each game is 1 point.
For a draw, you get 1 point extra. For a win, 3 points extra.
If the game finishes 3-3, its 4 points each.
If the result is 4-2, that becomes 7-2.

The extra points for the win, IMO, would help solve the sandbagging in the APA.

Q

[ If you dont play to win, why play?]

Fred Agnir

09-03-2003, 07:01 AM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote rackmup:</font><hr> Thank God for the voice of sanity and not the attempted justification of sandbagging, <hr /></blockquote>I hope you didn't view my two stories as "justification of sandbagging." I have no idea what your situation is, but I think it's fair to say that my stories shed light on the other side of the story.

If there's anything I can contribute to this board as much if not more than most is the ins and outs of amateur league experience. And that includes the perception of sandbagging.

Fred &lt;~~~ PAPA, VNEA, BCA, APA

nhp

09-03-2003, 07:28 AM

I don't play in the APA, and never have. I am in another league (USPPA) and there are many sandbaggers. When I first joined about 5 years ago (when I was 18) I was a pretty solid player. I couldn't put 3 and 4 packs on anyone, but I could run out pretty consistently. My first tournament was at Hollywood Billiards, CA. The tournament director was a very nice guy, but some of the regular players were jerks. Since nobody knew me, the tournament director watched me as I warmed up before the tournament. Since I was cold, I was having trouble making balls. He came up to me and told me he was going to play me as a 60 speed (which is a high C low B). Since I had no idea what the rating meant, I said ok. I ended up winning the tournament, but did not play as well as I wanted to. There were a few minor complaints from other players, but everything seemed to be fine. The following tournament a week later, I played better and took 2nd place. This time every player I beat complained about me. The tournament director came up to me afterwards, and told me he was going to raise me to a 70 speed (B player). I said fine, and the next week, caught dead punch and won the tournament. Now this time I played much better than I had the two previous weeks. In the middle of the tournament, I heard the tournament director arguing with two players I had beat, who were complaining about my average. He was taking the heat for being an honest guy. This made the players turn on me and accuse me of sandbagging. I told them that I always try to play my best, and am not sure how the rating system works. Nevertheless, when I visited other poolhalls for USPPA tournaments some players would recognize me and tell other players that I was a sandbagger. Even when I was playing bad one day, I would overhear them talking and saying that I missed on purpose. From then on I played as an 80 speed (A player). Since averages are calculated by computer, my rating would go up or down, but always hovered around an 80 speed. One time after playing bad for a month my rating dropped to a 71. Whenever I went to a new poolhall I always told the tourney director that I play as an 80 speed, just to be honest, plus it was an ego booster for me to be 18 years old and play as an A player. Ever since I got serious with school my game and rating has dropped a decent amount, this year I went from a 78 all the way down to a 67, but always have my average adjusted to over 70, since that is how I feel like I am playing right now. I have never sandbagged, and never wanted to. I have always just wanted to be a better player. When I earn my degree this year I am sure the following months I will break 100 speed, since I can practice much more often. I can't imagine anyone sandbagging and feeling good about themselves.

Now you know why I won't play the APA league. Why must a league keep score for the number of times you make a ball, miss, play safe etc. That seems to take the game out of pool and opens the door for sandbaggers. You decided to play in a league like this, its your problem, quit crying and move on. If it bothers you that much to bitch about it your in the wrong sport.

Blackwolf

09-03-2003, 10:22 AM

If the guy is running balls and winning matches, the APA handicapping system will automatically move him up in level. Except in very obvious cases where the player is known to or becomes known to the LO, they do not generally change the handicap of a player based on one nights performance.

A sandbagger is someone who plays below their true abilities. You complain that you saw him playing well. That is not sandbagging.

BW

rackmup

09-03-2003, 11:09 AM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote one of the wolves:</font><hr> A sandbagger is someone who plays below their true abilities. You complain that you saw him playing well. That is not sandbagging. <hr /></blockquote>

Um...yes it is. If a person comes in at a lower skill level than his true ability, then it is sandbagging. The sandbagging also occured each week when he was playing at this diminished level, tanking games and blowing easy shots to maintain that skill level basement rating.

Hey, if you have a problem with fairness, that's your gig. It's just that the lure of the APA is to allow all players to compete on an even level, regardless of their skill levels or time in the game. When this happens, it taints the APA's intentions.

Regards,

Ken (asume que este lobo negro es un sandbagger también...)

rackmup

09-03-2003, 11:11 AM

Don't worry Fred. I didn't take your posts to mean anything other than what you intended for them to be.

I have the utmost respect for your experience and your position on this forum.

Regards,

Ken

rackmup

09-03-2003, 11:17 AM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote woody:</font><hr> You decided to play in a league like this, its your problem, quit crying and move on. If it bothers you that much to bitch about it your in the wrong sport. <hr /></blockquote>

Wow. Pretty strong words there eh' kiddo? There was no "bitching" or "crying", just a simple statement of facts based on eye witness observations.

Tell you what...take your Prozac, rest for a few hours and then come back when you can speak with respect to your elders. Until then, you're grounded. Go to your room and leave your screen name alone.

BABAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
(Sorry. It's just that you really opened yourself up for that one. Really. I'm sorry.)

Regards,

Ken

wolfdancer

09-03-2003, 11:26 AM

Sorry Ken, but in a recent decision, the Supreme Court ruled against the great state of Texas, an what he do in his own bedroom, is up to him. No longer are Texans limited to the missionary position, and the missionaries themselves can have similiar equipment...at least that was the position of the honorable Justices

There is one other factor that I don't think anyone has mentioned. There are two scorekeepers for each match. The scorekeepers job among other things is to mark down all "defensive" shots. APA defines defense as any shot where there was no intent to pocket a ball. So if the guy is intentionally missing to keep his handicap down, or to run up innings, you just mark those shots as defense. I know the sandbaggers in our division, and I usually watch those matches very closely.

Steve~~thinks sandbaggers are lower than pond scum!

Steve Lipsky

09-03-2003, 01:56 PM

I have a question about the APA scoring. Let's say you play a game where you pocket a ball, play safe. Pocket a ball, play safe, etc. for seven innings. In the last inning, you make the 8 and win.

My question is how will the LO be able to differentiate this between a game where you played 7 straight safes and then ran out (all the balls)?

I could see the former (albeit not quite so cut-and-dried) happening to a lower-handicap player, and him getting unfairly raised based on his apparent runout.

Does this make any sense?

- Steve

Wally_in_Cincy

09-03-2003, 02:06 PM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Steve Lipsky:</font><hr> I have a question about the APA scoring. Let's say you play a game where you pocket a ball, play safe. Pocket a ball, play safe, etc. for seven innings. In the last inning, you make the 8 and win.

My question is how will the LO be able to differentiate this between a game where you played 7 straight safes and then ran out (all the balls)?

I could see the former (albeit not quite so cut-and-dried) happening to a lower-handicap player, and him getting unfairly raised based on his apparent runout.

Does this make any sense?

- Steve <hr /></blockquote>

Does it make sense?

Not really.

It would still be a zero-inning game according to the scoresheet. But it virtually never happens. What does happen though is a player will play 3 or 4 balls then safe because he's gotten out of line (like me). Still a zero-inning game.

If a player plays that smart and that quality of safety maybe his handicap should be adjusted. Still it doesn't happen enough to skew the handicaps to any great dgree. In theory it could though.

Aboo

09-03-2003, 03:10 PM

I've played APA 8-ball on bar tables, in a bar, where most folks DO drink beer, for a couple of years now...
I have never seen a 5 that can't control the cue ball marginally well. In our league a 5 is a very dangerous player. He might run out on you, and he might blow chunks. Depends on his night. But he almost always leans towards the high end.
A four is the opposite. He almost NEVER runs out (and if he does and more than one person bitches, he/she almost always gets bumped) and the sl4's skill is pretty erratic. Plays like a 6 once in a while, but most of the time erratic.

Now, that said. Sandbagging happens, a lot. Mostly by the same folks. If you play in your league, and pay attention, you'll know who it is. You just write those folks up. I let new folks go up naturally, because they will.

I got bumped to an sl5 because a 5 broke on me and didn't make a ball and I ran the rest out. Broke, played safe, and ran out again. Played a safety battle in the third game and beat him again. He was hot, he'd been practicing and he DEMANDED that his captain write me up.

His captain KNEW me and KNEW that I wasn't bagging. But he wrote me up anyway to keep the peace on his team. I didn't blame him in the least. No biggie, I just upped my practice time a bit. Every time I see the guy now I offer to play him for 50 a rack head up. He still won't do it. I'm going to start offering him a spot just to pick at the scab... hehehe

Blackwolf

09-03-2003, 03:12 PM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote rackmup:</font><hr>The sandbagging also occured each week when he was playing at this diminished level, tanking games and blowing easy shots to maintain that skill level basement rating.

And now your accussing me of sandbagging, and you have not even seen me play once. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

rackmup

09-03-2003, 03:16 PM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote blackwolf:</font><hr> And now your accussing me of sandbagging, and you have not even seen me play once. <hr /></blockquote>

No my furry little carnivor, I didn't accuse you of sandbagging. I assumed you were a sandbagger because of your voracious defense of such practices.

And I did the assuming in spanish where it sounds far less offensive.

Regards,

Ken

Fran Crimi

09-03-2003, 08:40 PM

Thanks. Bad number.

Jimmy B

09-04-2003, 02:00 AM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Steve Lipsky:</font><hr> I have a question about the APA scoring. Let's say you play a game where you pocket a ball, play safe.

Steve there is a spot where you are required to mark safes, these safes aren't counted as innings, so in your case the 7 inning game would have 7 safty marks and thus turn into a 0 inning game. Most teams don't mark it right and don't want to fight the other team over if it was a safe or just a miss, it is subjective at times. JB

cycopath

09-04-2003, 02:32 PM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Jimmy B:</font><hr>Most teams don't mark it right<hr /></blockquote>
That's exactly right. Every time I look at another teams scoresheet they haven't marked any defensive shots, when we'll have several marked down. I hate that.

rackmup

09-04-2003, 06:22 PM

Cycopath,

My team is worse than that! They think the score sheets must match!

I've explained time-and-time again that defeats the purpose.

It falls on deaf ears.

Regards,

Ken

woody

09-04-2003, 08:34 PM

I apologize to anyone I've offended. Its just that anyone who subjects themselves to that kind of format has to know that your situation will happen again and again. The match is over, you can't change it, move on. I guess it was the subject that made it sound worse than it was. Remember one thing, at the end of your pool shooting career, it will end up 50/50 for the number of games given away or given to you, that was the intent of my response. Sorry!!