A popular recent thread on this forum discussed attendance, or lack thereof, in Toronto. There are many similarities between the Vancouver and Toronto markets. The conventional wisdom in Toronto was that getting out of Rogers Centre and into BMO Field under the management of MLSE would spark a resurgence in Argo attendance. It didn't happen.

Moving outdoors to the cozy confines of Empire Field during the reconstruction of B.C. Place hurt the Lions' attendance. The venue looked great on TV but the Lions only once came close to hitting capacity of 27,500 in one and a half seasons. Attendance jumped temporarily on the return to B.C. Place as curious fans checked out the building and the team capped the 2011 season with a home Grey Cup victory but many season ticket holders cancelled when the Lions moved from B.C. Place and didn't return.

B.C. Place is one of the best venues in the CFL, and by far the best in inclement weather. The Lions game-ops staff have done a good job recently of cranking up the music and creating a more positive vibe in the stadium. There's no question the Lions need to draw more fans into the building. They won't find more fans by moving to a less comfortable outdoor stadium.

"I think [Fred Fateri] was like a lot of people who watch football, hockey or any professional sport on television. They sit there and think they could coach better than the professional. Some people really think that." - Bob Ackles, The Water Boy

BC fan. I agree they might lose some long time, older season ticket holders. My dad likes the temperature at exactly 21 degrees. Mess with the thermostat at his home and you'll here about it, for days.

I think the example of attendance falling at empire field has a lot to do with that it was in a bad location, or was very short term and it was, well, a temporary, uncomfortable stadium.

These things take time. And BC place gives us the chicken or the egg dilemma. No fans, then a new fan shows up and they have a dull experience. It would take 40,000 people to get that place livened up. That's not happening.

Good point about Toronto with their new stadium. But as I said, it will take time. They need to vastly improve their marketing, as a league. And perhaps inclement weather is more of an issue there as well.

Don't get me wrong, BC place has advantages. A cold rainy night in October, it's nice to be in a dome. But they can't even get that right... remember how we froze? They don't even use heat or air conditioning. But that's another topic I suppose. With an open air stadium, at least you'd know what to expect and dress accordingly.

I think it's the older folks who appreciate the dome more. And no disrespect, but times have changed. There's a reason stadiums aren't built like that anymore. We have the best weather in Canada too.

A popular recent thread on this forum discussed attendance, or lack thereof, in Toronto. There are many similarities between the Vancouver and Toronto markets. The conventional wisdom in Toronto was that getting out of Rogers Centre and into BMO Field under the management of MLSE would spark a resurgence in Argo attendance. It didn't happen.

Moving outdoors to the cozy confines of Empire Field during the reconstruction of B.C. Place hurt the Lions' attendance. The venue looked great on TV but the Lions only once came close to hitting capacity of 27,500 in one and a half seasons. Attendance jumped temporarily on the return to B.C. Place as curious fans checked out the building and the team capped the 2011 season with a home Grey Cup victory but many season ticket holders cancelled when the Lions moved from B.C. Place and didn't return.

B.C. Place is one of the best venues in the CFL, and by far the best in inclement weather. The Lions game-ops staff have done a good job recently of cranking up the music and creating a more positive vibe in the stadium. There's no question the Lions need to draw more fans into the building. They won't find more fans by moving to a less comfortable outdoor stadium.

Unquestionably, Vancouver and Vancouverites have changed since the Empire Stadium days. It seems to rain less during football season, summers are warmer and drier, and locals love to be outdoors. Hiking, boating, suntanning, running, walking, cycling, eating, and drinking. Thinking of opening a restaurant? You face an uphill climb to survive these days without a patio. Sorry, but people just don't want to schlepp downtown to sit indoors. It's not going to change. And with the roof opening only 100'm x 85'm (if we're lucky!), it's still an indoor venue. At best we can tarp like the Whitecaps and hope for the best.

Yes, B.C. Place is comfy in October and November, but most of the season has been played. With an outdoor venue and B.C. Place around, the club could still move indoors at playoff time as it's an "event."

I would also argue that Empire Field was a success. No plumbing in the bathrooms, no rapid transit, tight walkways, exorbitant parking fees, and most importantly, a disappointing 5-9 home record in the year and a half they played there (14-16 overall) and they still averaged 24,316 fans - 88.42% of capacity. The seats that invariably sat empty were the over-priced end-zone seats. The ones between the goal lines were virtually sold-out and everyone I've spoken with loved the experience - the tailgating, mountain views, sunsets, sightlines, proximity to the field. The only buzzkill was the crappy onfield product.

Sure, we could be like Toronto. But we could also be like Montreal who turned their fortunes around when they serendipitously discovered a new demand when they played at McGill.

Remember when there was talk of an outdoor stadium in Gastown seating around 30,000? Although it was for soccer, I though the Lions would also use it. Yesterday's news reported, " The Vancouver Whitecaps' owner just sold this 115-year-old Gastown landmark in an all-cash deal."

Reviving this old thread as I came across an excellent site that shows a lot of pictures of all the CFL stadiums. And that includes great pictures of the interior of the stadium, exterior of the stadium, and in many cases pictures of the concourse:

I won't go into too much detail BC Place stadium in Vancouver as I'll reference this in the summary.

General Summary
1. BC Place stadium is the only that has a four way replace screen placed in the middle of the stadium, unlike the others that have the replay screen in the form of a flat screen placed at one of the end zones: https://stadiumjourney.com/wp-content/u ... terior.jpg

2. As the only indoor stadium when the roof is closed, BC Place is the only stadium with complete full covering over the grandstand. The stadiums in Calgary, Edmonton, Montreal, and Hamilton have no covering at all over the grandstand and I wonder if their are bothered the least bit come the fall season. I don't know about these cities too much when it comes to the climate at that time, other than saying it that all Canadian cities get cold come autumn. Not sure if they get too much windy and rainy days in the fall though unlike Vancouver.

3. With all bleacher seating, it's fair to say that Percival Molson Memorial Stadium in Montreal is the least comfortable. I guess you can't expect too much from a university football stadium.

Had east side, upper deck season tickets at the old Winnipeg Stadium for many years and loved the seats.

The new IGF has the fancy locker, office, and meeting rooms that the teams are after but the fan experience has not been as good to the point where we gave up our tickets a couple of years ago. The supposed upgrade from the low class bench seating to the individual arm rests and cup holders works good for midgets.

Saw the 96 Grey Cup at Ivor Wynne and loved how close to the field the fans sat. The game itself was one for the ages with the back to back kickoff returns by Gizmo and Jimmy the Jet, the Flutie fumble and spot, the Eddie Brown catch. Loved that Chris Berman made it the NFL play of the week.

Had east side, upper deck season tickets at the old Winnipeg Stadium for many years and loved the seats.

Hi Murdoch, since you had season tickets at Winnipeg Stadium for many years, then a few questions:

#1.
Winnipeg is an extremely cold city come autumn time, and as far as rainfall is concerned just the other prairie provinces, it rains more often in the summer compared to the fall and winter. But unlike the stadiums of Edmonton and Calgary, for Winnipeg Stadium / Canad Inns Stadium, there was a roof over the two upper decks:

Did that roof provide much protection from the rain?

#2.
The stadium was located west of downtown fairly close to the airport. Was it easy to get there and did most fans drive there or use public transportation?

#3.
Previous, the old Winnipeg Arena was located right beside the stadium. Was there ever a time in which you attended a double feature by attending both a Blue Bombers and Jets game on the same day?

#4.
Regarding the blue cannon, how often was it fired and was it fired every season in which you were a season ticket holder? I would assume it was fired every time the Blue Bombers made an offensive TD or FG score. How about defensive scores like interception TD returns or safeties? I would assume it's harder for the person firing the cannot to prepare for these more unexpected scores. How about single scores?

#5.
Any very memorable games?
If you attended it, then I assume the 1990 EDF was extremely memorable. The Blue Bombers managed to contain the extremely explosive Argonauts offence to just 17 points, and late in the game Tom Burgess made a long run which allowed Trevor Kennerd to make the last-play FG to win the game 20-17 and I remember the cannon was fired as soon as that field goal was successful.

Cool post Robbie. I'm into it. The pictures make me tear up. They also tell the story pretty clearly.

The second picture is taken before the east side upper deck was built. Notice how the whole west side is sitting in the dark and the east siders are basking in the sun. Bomber bench was on the west side though so they thought they were the chosen ones. More than once the east side sucks vs the west side sucks rocked the stadium and the surrounding neighbourhood. Seems the Lions coming to town helped draw us closer.

The other weather factor was that the polar vortex often brings the weather system in from the east so east siders were high and dry while driving rain pelted the west side. Sometimes we farted in their general direction with the wind on our side. Watching the sun go down was another bonus.

All that said, again it was the Lions who seemed to be playing on the worst of the prairie lightning storm games. Games were temporarily halted on several occasions due to the conditions. At least twice it was BC. In general, the weather was glorious.

The location was dope. Right where you would want it to be. Good access from all directions. We had our spots where we parked for free close by for many years. Transit had people in and out in no time. Would say that most fans would have been home within an hour of the game being over. Prior to Bob Irving Jack Wells was the play by play guy and the happy honker award was given out to a loud chorus from surrounding departing vehicles. IGF is a traffic nightmare.

The property where it sat is now an empty lot. The development and proceeds of that property was the foundation of the plan to finance IGF. Manitoba government has written off at least $200 million of the deal. Details are slow to surface on that topic. Take news of Bomber finances with a grain of salt. The true mvp of the team is the accountant.

They still do the football / hockey double header. Not quite the same though as the people get spread out across the city. We lost the Jets for a long time so it wasn't always an option. Polo Park had lots of restaurants that did well between the games and it was literally a 500 m walk to the next stop.

Half the city heard that frigging cannon go off every time the Bombers got a point. For a while they would shoot it off for the TD and then again for the extra point. They also had a guy driving a plane around for a good many years. Might have been an alcohol related incident with the guy crashing that ended that and gave way to the Buzz and Boomer mascots. Never cared for them tbh.

Many memorable games but never a Grey Cup win.

Thinking now, the ones that come to mind are some of the close losses to the Eskimos in the early 80's when we had Dieter Brock. Trevor Kennerd was a good kicker that came up short a couple of times in cold weather. Might have been a 14 - 12 playoff loss that many pinned on him. He is still in Winnipeg and doing well. I bear him no ill will.

Like all fans of the CFL we were treated to many amazing individual players and plays. Bennie Thompson stood out for me. James Murphy and Milt were two of the best receivers. Joe Poplawski made two short kicks in a row to pull out a game against Ottawa in his rookie year if I remember right. Gord Patterson made one recovery. The game was hailed as one of the best comebacks in Bomber history. If you mentioned it to a fan of the day they will remember.

Greg Battle was a stud as was Joe Lohbedahn. Moe Leggett and an amazing spin off a block to stop Chris Rainey at the goal line with time expiring to win the game is one some of you might remember. A little salt in the wound to make up for that Joe Fourquean tip ball. Mike Holmes was so clearly open.

They lost a playoff game to the Argos 19 - 3 that was extremely disheartening.

The entire Cal Murphy era were the Bomber golden years imo. Sad that it ended with the frozen turf trick at Commonwealth. Kind of joking but not really.

It's all good. Didn't even mention Willie Jefferson yet and I'll remember the play of Chris Streveler for years to come. His play at last years Labor Day Classic was super human. Run Streveler was the only play in the book for the second half. Riders won the game. Crap happens.

Anyway... I apologize for the ramble. I feel a bit like Blitz who I miss reading the game recaps and wish well if he is still following along. Seems like we all grew up doing the same thing just in different cities. Let me know if there is something I missed.

Cool post Robbie. I'm into it. The pictures make me tear up. They also tell the story pretty clearly.

Thanks for your long response, Murdoch. I'll address a few things along with some more questions.

Murdoch wrote:The other weather factor was that the polar vortex often brings the weather system in from the east so east siders were high and dry while driving rain pelted the west side. Sometimes we farted in their general direction with the wind on our side. Watching the sun go down was another bonus.

That's what I figured as given the wind, the roof would have minimal effect as the wind can easily blow the rain into their heads and faces despite having a roof above their head.

Murdoch wrote:All that said, again it was the Lions who seemed to be playing on the worst of the prairie lightning storm games. Games were temporarily halted on several occasions due to the conditions. At least twice it was BC. In general, the weather was glorious.

What month does Winnipeg get prairie lightning storms? I believe in the summer? I guess that's a tradeoff in that in the summer you get warm temperatures but at the risk of thunderstorms. While in the fall, fewer thunderstorms but at the risk of cold temperatures and possibly snow.

Murdoch wrote:The location was dope. Right where you would want it to be. Good access from all directions. We had our spots where we parked for free close by for many years. Transit had people in and out in no time. Would say that most fans would have been home within an hour of the game being over. Prior to Bob Irving Jack Wells was the play by play guy and the happy honker award was given out to a loud chorus from surrounding departing vehicles. IGF is a traffic nightmare.The property where it sat is now an empty lot. The development and proceeds of that property was the foundation of the plan to finance IGF. Manitoba government has written off at least $200 million of the deal. Details are slow to surface on that topic. Take news of Bomber finances with a grain of salt. The true mvp of the team is the accountant. They still do the football / hockey double header. Not quite the same though as the people get spread out across the city. We lost the Jets for a long time so it wasn't always an option. Polo Park had lots of restaurants that did well between the games and it was literally a 500 m walk to the next stop.

Now that the Blue Bombers moved to IG FIeld, how does the new location compare to the old Canad Inns stadium with regards to transportation and parking? I see that IG Field is located in the southern part of the city and is located on the campus of the University of Manitoba, and parking is always difficult on university campuses and usually charge high parking prices. And Bell MTS Place is located in Downtown Winnipeg and as such, unlike when Winnipeg Stadium and Arena were right beside each other, you cannot simply walk from one stadium to another to attend both a Blue Bombers game and then Jets game.

Murdoch wrote:Half the city heard that frigging cannon go off every time the Bombers got a point. For a while they would shoot it off for the TD and then again for the extra point.

I remember seeing that blue smoke was emitted from the cannon sometimes.

Murdoch wrote:Trevor Kennerd was a good kicker that came up short a couple of times in cold weather. Might have been a 14 - 12 playoff loss that many pinned on him. He is still in Winnipeg and doing well. I bear him no ill will.

You are referring to the 1994 EDF when Winnipeg suffered a 14-12 setback to Baltimore.

Bob Cameron was a great punter when it came to inclement and windy weather in a great tandem with Trevor Kennerd. That said, as a long-time veteran in Winnipeg as well, one would believe the Kennerd would be skilled and experienced in inclement weather that's often found in Winnipeg. Who was good in cold Winnipeg was Paul McCallum in the 2006 GC which was played in late November in Winnipeg when he went 6 for 6 in field goals with his MVC performance. I suppose he was experienced in cold weather by his years in nearby Regina.

Actually I may have to take back what I said. In the 1991 season, the Winnipeg placekicker was changed from Trever Kennerd to Troy Westwood.

Murdoch wrote:They lost a playoff game to the Argos 19 - 3 that was extremely disheartening.

That would be the 1987 EDF in which Winnipeg finished first in the east - the first season there are Montreal folded. It was extremely in disheartening in BC as well as the Lions finished first in the west and would host the WDF and GC if they advanced, but suffered a huge setback to the Eskimos.

-----------------

Murdoch, a question for you now if you can speak on behalf of the majority of the Winnipeg Blue Bombers fans.

Even though they were the QB's when Winnipeg won the 1988 and 1990 Grey Cups, I have a feeling that when there's a discussion on favourite Blue Bombers quarterbacks, those two will not rank very high despite the win. Those two were not long-term Blue Bombers, and will unlikely be inducted into the Hall of Fame. And when it comes to talking about favourite Winnipeg quarterbacks, Blue Bombers fans would say and list Tom Clements, Matt Dunigan, Kevin Glenn, Buck Pierce, Khari Jones, and Ken Ploen over Salisbury and Burgess. So that means that simply winning a GC does not automatically make a player very popular and well-liked. Is my assessment correct?

Last edited by Robbie on Mon May 25, 2020 8:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Main point being about everything I mentioned is that it is tied in to the game day experience. Not available at home on tv. It shouldn't be a hard sell. Make it about the fans and not about sitting 4 rows over from Drake at $250 per would help. I do think the Lions are rolling out some great new ideas and packages for what it's worth.

1994 against Baltimore was another sore loss at home but not the game I am thinking of related to Trevor Kennerd. So many plays in a game that I don't want to say it came down to him but it was a low scoring game. 1982 ish perhaps. Cold.

1994 against Baltimore was another sore loss at home but not the game I am thinking of related to Trevor Kennerd. So many plays in a game that I don't want to say it came down to him but it was a low scoring game. 1982 ish perhaps. Cold.

The only other home playoff loss from 1980 - 1991 was the 1981 WDSF when the Lions narrowly won 15-11.

Looking back on the 88 Bomber Grey Cup roster and trying to remember how Sean Salisbury became the QB, I see Roy Dewalt finished his career in Winnipeg that season. Tom Muecke was another who played after backing up Tom Clements who left after the 87 season. I think most rated Muecke ahead of Salisbury so possibly an injury situation. Can't recall what happened to Dewalt.

Salisbury was the prototypical 6'5" NFL type that was looking for a chance to play which he got. He lucked out in the cup win against the Lion's and started the next season but locker room issues came up and he left mid season. When you think of the many very good QB's that played in Winnipeg you wouldn't think Salisbury would be the GC winner among them. He did go on to the NFL.

Tommy Burgess was a good QB. Ranks with Buck Pierce in the ability to take ferocious hits. Similar style to Buck as well. Good team guy. Both Burgess and Salisbury benefitted from a strong O line and a great defence to get their GC wins.

Back to the weather I'm not sure I ever thought of Winnipeg having a rainy season. Primarily it goes from last winter to this winter. If there ever is a sure bet for a thoroughly drenching downpour it will happen during the Red River Exhibition week. It's happened so often I'm tempted to say guaranteed.

Might have been 1977 for that loss to the Eskimos. Trevor Kennerd was not the regular punter. Believe Bernie Ruoff was the main guy. J Washington and Richard Crump were a great package in the backfield. Game was played in Winnipeg.

Lionbackers.com is an independently owned source of B.C. Lions and Canadian Football League news, information, discussion and speculation.
Lionbackers.com is NOT Officially affiliated with the BC Lions, the CFL or any league, team or school.
Lionbackers.com is NOT affiliated with the BC Lions Fan Club known as Lion Backers Fan Club.
The opinions expressed on Lionbackers.com are those of the poster and may not reflect the opinion of Lionbackers.com ownership.
Powered by phpBB™ • Design by PlanetStyles