Live from Garma Festival, Arnhem Land

Discuss the Questions

Here are the questions our panel faced this week. Tell us what your answer would be or what you think our panellists need to say.

CONSTITUTIONAL RECOGNITION

Jazlie Grugoruk asked: The Australian constitution and the Australian state were founded on the myth of Terra Nullius, the assertion that Australia was uninhabited at the time of settlement. As an Indigenous person who has lost my language, culture and identity under white colonialism, why should I assent to falsely established Australian law by electing to include my people within its founding document? A treaty is the only way to assert our original sovereignty and equality, so why are you, our Indigenous leaders, settling for a watered down attempt at recognition in the Australian Constitution?What do you think?

FORREST REVIEW “A BREATH OF FRESH AIR"

Pierre Prentice asked: The recommendations put forward in Andrew Forrest's review are a breath of fresh air and look like a cohesive & common sense blueprint for dealing with problems that our bureaucracy has been unable to solve, despite decades trying. Why shouldn't they be adopted? What do you think?

BI-LINGUAL EDUCATION

Yalmay Yunupingu asked: My name is Yalmay Yunupingu. My husband was the late Dr Yunupingu, the lead singer of Yothu Yindi and founder of the Garma Festival. I am a mother and a grandmother. My children were educated at the Yirrkala School and they are bilingual, bi-cultural, and literate in both Yolngu Matha and English.The UN Declaration of the Rights of Indigenous People, Article 14, states "Indigenous peoples have the right to establish and control their educational systems and institutions providing education in their own languages, in a manner appropriate to their cultural methods of teaching and learning." My question is to Nova. If the ALP win the next Federal Election, will your Party commit to resourcing and supporting Bilingual Programs?What do you think?

FOLLOW UP - BI-LINGUAL EDUCATION

Yalmay Yunupingu also asked: The reason I ask that question is because my mother passed away on the 14th of January this year. She was the last of her people, the last to speak her language. Her language will no longer be spoken.What do you think?

EDUCATION – BOARDING SCHOOL

Ben Long asked: I’m 16 years old and left Darwin for boarding school in Melbourne at the start of this year. I left Darwin because my mum and dad wanted me to have a good future with access to opportunities. Why do I have to go all the way to Melbourne, away from my family, to get a good education and to fulfil what I want to do when I’m older?What do you think?What do you think?

RACISM AT SCHOOL

Josef Lew Fatt asked: I’m a high school student and I often encounter situations that involve racism either towards others or myself. How can we change the mindset of racist thinkers?What do you think?

LAND RIGHTS

Jens Staermose asked: A question to the whole panel, but in particular to Joe Morrison, on the front page in the Weekend Australian two days ago Galarrwuy Yunupingu, ex chairman of the Northern Land Council, called for northeast Arnhem Land Aboriginal land rights to come home. Should this happen will the Northern Land Council still be relevant?What do you think?

EXCELLENCE – DEADLY AWARDS

Amanda Langlois asked: Aboriginal educator Dr Chris Sarra states that educational outcomes for Aboriginal students will improve when false, negative stereotypes of Aboriginal people are challenged and all Australians celebrate Aboriginal culture and achievements. Do you think the current federal government is sincere about its desire to close the gap when it withdraws funding for programs like the ‘Deadly Awards’ which are a widely recognised platform to celebrate Aboriginal culture and achievements?What do you think?

WALKING IN BOTH WORLDS

Gina Smith asked: As a Warumungu woman I live in three worlds. In the European world where I have a house, a job and two children; in my Wumparani world where I’m responsible for passing on my culture to my extended family and community; and in my third world where I have to meet the obligations required of me in both worlds. As leaders, how do you balance your worlds without compromising your values and culture?What do you think?

TONY JONES: Good evening and welcome to Q&A. I’m Tony Jones. Please thank our four yidaki players, led by Djalu Gurruwiwi, representing the four directions of this land for that wonderful welcome. Now, we - okay, yes, we can clap as well. We begin tonight’s Q&A by acknowledging the traditional owners of this land.

We’re in Yolngu country in the remote north east corner of Arnhem land as guests of the Yothu Yindi Foundation and the Garma Festival and answering your questions tonight: the CEO of the Northern Land Council Joe Morrison; Australia’s most influential Indigenous leader Noel Pearson; Gälpu Clan Elder and businesswoman Dhäŋggal Gurruwiwi; the deputy of the Yothu Yindi Foundation, Djawa Yunupingu ; Olympic gold, Labor Senator for the Northern Territory Nova Peris; and the first Aboriginal elected to the House of Representatives, Liberal MP Ken Wyatt. Please welcome our panel.

Thank you. Now, Q&A is simulcast on ABC News 24 and News Radio. you can join the Twitter conversation using the #qanda hashtag on your screen as usual. Now, this is a night of firsts. The first Q&A focused on Australia’s first people and the first Q&A to include so many Indigenous people on the panel and in the audience. So let’s get straight to our first question, which comes from Jazlie Grugoruk.

CONSTITUTIONAL RECOGNITIONJAZLIE GRUGORUK: Thanks, Tony. My question’s for the whole panel. The Australian constitution and the Australian state were founded on the myth of terra nullius: the assertion that Australia was uninhabited at the time of settlement. As an Indigenous person who has lost my language, my culture and identity under white colonialism, why should I assent to falsely established Australian law by asking to include my people within its founding document? A treaty is the only way to assert our original sovereignty and equality, so why are you, with respect, our Indigenous leaders, settling for a watered down attempt at recognition in the Australian Constitution?

TONY JONES: Well, Ken Wyatt, we’ll start with you because you are the chair of the parliamentary committee into the constitutional referendum on recognition, so let’s hear what you say to this idea it should be a treaty?

KEN WYATT: Tony, I think it’s great that we have the questioning occurring because part of the process is for all of us to have the dialogue but what we’ve got to remember is Australia was only known as Australia from 1788. Before that it had several other names. But Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people have had a continuity of existence with this land for that period of time. They were left out of the constitutional conventions. They were left out of the 1901. We live in this country and we deserve to be recognised within the constitution but that doesn’t negate aspirations for those who want treaty or sovereignty. When Australia is ready for that, that debate can occur in the future.

TONY JONES: So two things are possible?

KEN WYATT: Two things are possible.

TONY JONES: Nova Peris?

NOVA PERIS: For me this whole discussion, you know, it’s - like what you’re saying, you know, there’s a lot of Aboriginal people that have lost their identities since colonisation and the significance of being recognised in this document is, to me and to other Aboriginal people, it’s about the true history of this country, the entire genetic makeup of this country, what is now called Australia, and it would be wrong to say that you would continue to lose more by having this important, I guess, conversation is what we’re having now with the Australia public and, you know, there’s so many Australians, you know, through the terra nullius, through land rights, through there’s so many historical things that have occurred but this is so important on an international level and also to Aboriginal people because we will finally be seen as citizens that make up this country.

TONY JONES: Nova, do you worry that the broader Australian public hasn’t yet focussed on this, don’t really understand what it’s all about?

NOVA PERIS: Well, that is true and I think, you know, we need to acknowledge the recognised movement who have actually gotten out there and they’ve made a tremendous contribution to having that discussion amongst the wider community. We see at the AFL, you know, there are a number of national sporting organisations that are onboard this and we need to have the conversations. You know, we’re talking about human beings being inclusive in a country, you know, what we call Australia and, as we all know, we’re the oldest collective race in the world and I say this every time I have conversations, Australia doesn’t lose 230 years, you gain 40,000 years of history.

TONY JONES: How do you answer directly the young woman’s question? She’s asking why a constitutional referendum for a constitution that doesn’t mean anything to her as, as she puts it, what’s necessary in her mind is a treaty.

NOVA PERIS: I guess that’s a conversation that a lot of individuals would be thinking. You know, when you talk about treaties, when you talk about, you know, how far we’ve come now as Australians, there’s a debate to be had with regards to what could possibly go to the Australian public and we can’t lose that momentum. You know, we’ve got to continue on because it’s, as Aboriginal people we are excluded, you know. For such a long time we were regarded as flora and fauna you know and it’s about making a wrong right.

TONY JONES: Noel Pearson?

NOEL PEARSON: Tony, I was 24 years old when I went to one of the most galvanising seminars, where I heard Michael Mansell speak for the first time on the subject of a treaty between the Aboriginal sovereign nation and the Australian nation. I was just a law student at the time and it was a real challenge that Mansell raised at the end of that seminar and his question at the end of it was are we Australian Aborigines or Aboriginal Australians and he challenged us that we need to make a choice, one way or the other, and I suppose in all of my advocacy I am making the case that we are Aboriginal Australians, that the nation of Australia can carve out a recognition and a space for our people as a distinct people and with distinct traditions. I would say to the young lady that I don’t accept that she’s lost her identity. I come across tens of thousands of Aboriginal people who live in a great variety of different circumstances and I see their traditions. I see their heritage and I see their entitlement for recognition and, of course, there’s a big spectrum. I come here to Arnhem Land really to share a part of the classical culture, which used to exist all over the continent on the four corners and but that doesn’t deny, in my view, the fact that if you’re living in Sydney, if you’re living in Melbourne, if you’re living on the eastern seaboard, that you don’t have an identity. You know, I think it’s desperately important that we reach a settlement with the rest of Australia about protecting and, for the first time, recognising that identity.

TONY JONES: Noel, what do you think should be in the referendum question because we heard Bill Shorten here yesterday say there needs to be written into the constitution as the expert panel on this suggested actually, a protection against discrimination?

NOEL PEARSON: Well, it’s discrimination that’s kind of underwritten our parlous position in this country. It’s been the source of the great miseries that we have ensured. It was discrimination that left us out of the constitution in the first place. I think the question that we will go through as we discuss the expert panel’s report and the report produced by the committee that Nova and Ken were members of is the question of whether some kind of guarantee against discrimination is part of the provisions that are taken forward or whether Aboriginal people need to have a say over their own affairs so that, you know, we decide that we - what applies to our people and the protections and recognition that we deserve and I think this is a big question. It’ll play out over the next two years probably and I look forward to a good debate about this.

TONY JONES: Djawa, the great Yothu Yindi song everyone remembers, I’m sure, is Treaty and the chorus went, “Treaty now.” What do you think? Do you think it’s time for a treaty or constitutional referendum or can you have both?

DJAWA YUNUPINGU: When my brother wrote the song about treaty, it was only a song. The song was written because the former Prime Minister when he said “There shall be a treaty” and that was back in 1998, right?

TONY JONES: Long time ago.

DJAWA YUNUPINGU: Now it’s 2014, that’s six years or not six years but 16.

TONY JONES: Mm hm.

NOVA PERIS: Twenty-six. Long time.

DJAWA YUNUPINGU: Long time.

TONY JONES: Do you think it’ll ever happen?

DJAWA YUNUPINGU: If we don’t lose our hopes I agree to the young lady there please do not give hope - give up hope because at a state - one of my statements last year at Garma I said - I simply said this: we the Yolngu people of this country, from Arnhem Land, do not stand apart from you. We stand with you and, young lady, please do not give up hope. There shall be a treaty.

TONY JONES: Dhäŋggal, can I ask you what you think? The young lady was saying shouldn’t bother with the referendum but I think a lot of people will be bothering and there’ll be a huge debate. What do you think?

DHÄŊGGAL GURRUWIWI: I agree with what Djawa said and I stand in with this young lady as well.

TONY JONES: Yeah.

DHÄŊGGAL GURRUWIWI: Yep.

TONY JONES: But you would encourage people to go out and vote in the referendum and be part of the big debate about the referendum as well when it happens?

DHÄŊGGAL GURRUWIWI: I would.

TONY JONES: Joe Morrison?

JOE MORRISON: I think the question about constitutional recognition represents an enormous step forward in the maturing of the country and we’ve seen, for a long time, many important events that have galvanised Aboriginal people. You know, the pastoral awards, strike in the Pilbara, land rights, Mabo, things here in the Northern Territory, like the Barunga Statement, have been profoundly important events that have galvanised people and I think the question of the constitutional recognition shouldn’t be seen as being exclusive to all other attempts to bring the country into a high level of maturity and I think that’s in the context that it should be taken that this is a profoundly important step for the nation to make. It’s a profoundly important step for Aboriginal people to embrace the country and for the rest of the country to embrace the uniqueness that Aboriginal people bring so I think it is something that is worthwhile pursuing. It’s worthwhile pursuing for my own kids, as well was their kids, to be able to enjoy the fruits of the country and all that it brings and I would wholeheartedly recommend that we pursue it but not take our eye off other opportunities in the future.

TONY JONES: Okay, let’s move on.

KEN WYATT: Tony, just on that.

TONY JONES: Yes, go on, Ken. Yes, go ahead.

KEN WYATT: Can I say to the young lady the 1967 referendum changed the mindset of Australians towards our people. The speech by Paul Keating at Redfern was a landmark speech of recognition of the challenges of the past and the dispossession that occurred and then the apology healed so many of us, including my mother, who was from the stolen generation, and the next step was then to move to the completion of the constitution and from that we will build to the stages that will complete the social fabric of this nation to make it a nation in which we are all equals.

TONY JONES: Ken, just very briefly - we’ve got lots of other questions to go to - but do you think you could potentially see a treaty in your lifetime?

KEN WYATT: Probably not in my lifetime. I’m much older now than what I used to be in the period that Noel was talking about but I think Australia, in its grown and maturation will reach a point where there will be arrangements that go into place and treaty is a word that certainly a Prime Minister committed to but never followed up with.

TONY JONES: Okay, let’s move on. We do have a lot of questions. We’ve got one from Pierre Prentice.

FORREST REVIEW “A BREATH OF FRESH AIR"PIERRE PRENTICE: The recommendations contained in the recent review by Andrew Forrest were really a breath of fresh air. They seemed like a cohesive and very common sense blueprint for dealing with problems that our multi-layered bureaucracy seems to have struggled with and failed to get on top of after decades and billions of dollars. My question for the panel is simply this: why shouldn't those recommendations be adopted and implemented?

TONY JONES: Noel Pearson?

NOEL PEARSON: Well, I’ve got no problems with Andrew Forrest’s report, in fact I support the recommendations of his report. It’s been the subject of a comprehensive process of discussion around the countryside. I think there’s a great deal of consensus around the recommendations dealing with employment and training and early childhood and primary school education and so on but, of course, the hot button issue is the measure of a healthy welfare card. I am personally in favour of that.

TONY JONES: Tell us why?

NOEL PEARSON: Because I’m concerned about vulnerable people in my own community and that I see in communities throughout Australia. I want every child to grow up in a household that has food in the fridge, that has a blanket on the bed and that has the basic needs met and I believe that supporting particularly vulnerable families to have their domestic lives in some kind of order so that children can grow up and have everything that other Australian children have. I just know that with the problems afflicting our communities that, you know, the management of the income that’s coming into a family is like the crucial first step. In Cape York we say a better life begins with a budget. You can’t have food if you don’t budget. You don’t have a blanket if you don’t budget. You don’t have tuckshop money if you don’t budget and I just think, you know, a lot of people might - people who live in advantage often forget that some basic things need to come together in a family in order for a child to prosper in life and so I know this is going to be a hot button issue, the matter of the health welfare card, but I think that properly targeted and with a measure of opt in I think, you know, there ought to be a mechanism for communities and individuals to opt into those arrangements. I think a mixture of opt in arrangements and, in the case of vulnerable people, supporting them in relation to the management of money, I think this will effect a real revolutionary lift in the prospects of the most disadvantaged people.

TONY JONES: Joe Morrison, what do you think? I mean we are talking here about income management. It’s applied already to communities in the Northern Territory. Twiggy Forrest wants it to be national.

JOE MORRISON: Well, I mean, I think experience here in the Northern Territory tells us - but, firstly, I should say that absolutely we should be doing what we can as a society to look after the most vulnerable people but if we look at the history here in the Northern Territory with the intervention and the way that that was put into place, I think it’s fair to say that a lot of people were pretty hurt in the way that they were treated, absolutely hurt, and there is still a lot of suffering from people is one thing and but I would also suggest that the tide that came with it in terms of the amount of public servants and the overlays with respects to the bureaucracy, which was never part of the early discussions, left what I believe is a pretty amazing and difficult situation for people to grapple with. People had no control and no say over the futures of their families and particularly where people were doing tremendously important and good work in some of our communities, some of those enterprises and those abilities to take control of their affairs were removed from them. So I think when we talk about dealing with welfare it is, firstly, important to understand the entirely complex nature of it, that we’re dealing with people who are vulnerable and we need to do it in partnership and absolutely with their informed consent so we can work together in partnership with them.

TONY JONES: Nova Peris? I’ve actually heard you speak very passionately about income management just the other day.

NOVA PERIS: Yeah. Going back to what Joe was talking about with the intervention, Aboriginal people were painted with one brush stroke and Aboriginal men were demonised and that was another, I guess, systemic policy of this country that continued and still continues to this day and I think there are elements of that report that I’ve read - I haven’t read all of it, that suggest we’re going down the same path again. When you look at, I guess, the income management, there were 22,000 Aboriginal people in the Northern Territory on it, when you look at the fact that it costs between 5 to $8,000 per person for administrative costs. The discrimination that it inflicted upon Aboriginal people was horrific and, like what Joe said, we’re still scarred from that.

TONY JONES: I heard you speak the other day about this and gave the case of a supermarket.

NOVA PERIS: A supermarket, exactly, in Alice Springs where I walked in in 2007 and there was a queue there and the queue had a sign basic card and you looked up and it was just all Aboriginal people. The other queues people happily went through and used their ATM cards to purchase whatever they wanted. So when you’re talking about empowering Aboriginal people, you know, the language, the colourful language, it’s like what Joe was saying today, you know, like Dr Yunupingu, in his songs that he wrote, was just talking over and over and over and over again and we still haven’t got it right, you know, when you think of the fact we are the oldest collective race of people in the world, yet the fastest dying race of people. The fact that we’ve got Twiggy’s report and he’s wanting to roll this out, it’s going to be his job to actually talk to the two and a half million Australians that are going to be subjected to discrimination to say that you can’t control your lives, we’re going to control and Aboriginal people have suffered that, you know, intergenerational, I guess, discrimination since 1788 and we continue to have it.

TONY JONES: Let’s hear from Ken Wyatt on this because the Forrest report is not just about this one issue, is it, it goes a lot broader than that?

KEN WYATT: No, look I’ve read the report fully now and I agree with all of it but I would never have called it a welfare card because there are some families who are vulnerable and he makes the point that there are families who are vulnerable that need support and interventions and government agencies in both State and Commonwealth do it all the time but the notion of a welfare card - and I disagreed with the basics card. I would have rather have seen a debit card being given to those families that made it look as though it was any other financial transaction. But the report covers all of the things that have been said in the Royal Commission into Aboriginal Deaths in Custody and the various reports that have been tabled within parliaments across this nation. The issue for me is when do we draw a line in the sand and say enough is enough? We have communities that there is poverty, there are levels of illness that is not acceptable, there are gaps in education and yet when you look at budget figures over the progressive governments, both Coalition and Labor, the amount that has been put into Aboriginal affairs is substantial. So why aren’t we seeing the return for investment with that? So I think that Andrew’s report provides a platform or a framework for reform but I would want it done through a process where the community are equal partners in the engagement, that the solutions are part of what’s negotiated, not the previous practice because you can never bring about change unless you are a player within that change and you determine and certainly here at Garma I’ve heard that message loud and clear from everybody. This is about working together to find solutions that have both dignity, compassion but have outcomes that make a difference in the lives of Aboriginal children and families.

TONY JONES: Yes. Nova wanted to get in there.

NOVA PERIS: Yeah, if I could - with there are elements of the report where Twiggy, and I heard him speak here at Garma, where he talked about early childhood education about zero to four year olds, they’re the most imperative years of children and totally agree with that and if you look at what’s happening now is this government, when you’re talking there’s a lot of budget cuts to education, to early childhood education, so you’ve got a man who’s going out trying to talk about this is the solution but he’s gonna have to go back to Tony Abbott to talk about there are a significant amount of budget cuts to the area that he wants to say that we should be investing in and that’s early childhood education. What Ken was saying with regards to how the intervention happened, Aboriginal people and I’ve spoken to so many people, people came into their communities. They didn’t ask to come in, they imposed themselves on Aboriginal people. They said you need this, you need that and I’ve seen communities where they went and built houses on sacred sites. There are houses in Western Australia and in parts of the Northern Territory they remain vacant. it is like because you are black in this country, you can’t be good enough to participate and it’s like so long, so many times now Aboriginal people are just being told and dictated how they will run and how they’re going to run their life and we see it far too often and you can’t have a relationship if you’re not going to have everyone working and walking together.

TONY JONES: I just want to hear - yeah, I know you want to respond to that so go ahead.

NOEL PEARSON: There’s another kind of queue I’ve seen. It’s the queue in front of the ATM machine in front of the bowls club where the poker machines are. What do we do about that queue? And the question about intervention, what do we do when the kids aren’t getting a feed, they’re being neglected? Should we intervene and support that family, to make sure there’s food in the fridge and they’re able to tackle their addictions, by making sure the rent is paid and the food is in the fridge or do we stand stand back and say, no, we won’t intervene and we’ll let the child protection authorities intervene later and take the kids away? Which one do we want: to support the family so that the child can stay with mum and dad or stand back and let the child be taken away by the child protection authorities? In Cairns you drive around the streets, the buses have got advertisements asking for more foster parents, asking people from the public to volunteer as foster parents to take Aboriginal children in. So, you know, it’s easy to say we shouldn’t intervene and so on but by us not intervening, that’s why our children are 3% of the population but 60% of the kids in child protection not living with their mothers and fathers.

TONY JONES: We’ve got to move on, Noel, but just very briefly the fundamental difference appears to be that in your community in Cape York in an experiment you’ve put together, it is the community itself which makes the decision who goes on income management, not the bureaucrats?

NOEL PEARSON: Absolutely and we - you know the whole business of advocating for the intervention in those vulnerable households came from us. We wanted it and we wanted our elders to decided where intervention was appropriate and where it was not and we want to encourage people to take responsibility and if they do they should be left alone but where they don’t, you know, we can wipe our hands clean of it but the end destination for that kid is that they’re the ones going off to Brisbane and Cairns living with strangers.

TONY JONES: Let’s move on because we’ve got a lot of questions. Many of them are on education. This one is from Yalmay Yunupingu.

BI-LINGUAL EDUCATIONYALMAY YUNUPINGU: My name is Yalmay Yunupingu. My husband was the late Dr Yunupingu, the lead singer of Yothu Yindi and the founder of Garma Festival. I am a mother and a grandmother. My children were educated at Yirrkala School and they are bilingual, bicultural, and literate in both Yolngu Matha and English. The United Nation’s Declaration of the Rights of Indigenous People, Article 14, states "Indigenous peoples have the right to establish and control their educational systems and institutions providing education in their own languages, in a manner appropriate to their cultural methods of teaching and learning." My question is to Nova. If the ALP win the next Federal Election, will your Party commit to resourcing and supporting Bilingual Programs?

TONY JONES: Nova, well, we’ll start with you. We’d like to hear from everyone else on the panel.

NOVA PERIS: Thank you, Yalmay, for your questions and, as you know, I have a great deal of respect for the late Dr Yunupingu and your family. I think in your question, you already gave the answer with regards to you’re a product of bilingual education. Your late husband was a product of bilingual education. Your children have been. I’ve travelled to 50 countries around the world and I have seen many, many, many schools around this country that have bilingual education. Why don’t we have it here in the Northern Territory and if I know that I - and we’ve spoken many times before, as I have, there is no reason and why we shouldn’t have bilingual education. It’s almost like we accept everything else but we don’t have a problem with who we are. We don’t have a problem with our language. It’s almost like everyone else has a problem and we are denied the most basic, fundamental human rights of being who we are as Aboriginal people and with regards to how we teach our children and maintaining that cultural connection and that is something that I would certainly, without a doubt, hand on heart take back to the Labor Party.

TONY JONES: Ken, we’ll have to hear from you briefly, because we need to hear whether that same commitment might come from the Coalition.

KEN WYATT: Let me way, look, as a teacher I used to value children who had two languages, who were bilingual, because they were bicultural and they had a richness and when you have your own mother tongue you learn to be proficient in speaking, talking and reading in your own mother tongue and then you learn to code switch and the code switch enables you then to move between both and certainly I have always been a supporter of bilingual education but it’s something that I would certainly expect us to look at in the future because if we want educational outcomes to change from where they are in this country then we’re going to have to recognise that some of our Aboriginal communities have three or four language that are spoken by children and we’ve got to work from the known to the unknown and that is to transition them from their language into English so they can walk both lives but have the opportunity of being successful in broader Australian society.

TONY JONES: Can we just go back to Yalmay? I’d like just to ask you are you happy with what you’re hearing from the politicians?

FOLLOW UP - BI-LINGUAL EDUCATIONYALMAY YUNUPINGU: Yes. The reason I ask this question is because my mother - one of my mother who passed away on the 13th of January this year, she was last Warramiri clan, she’s the honey people, that’s her totem, and there was two people left and she was the last one who lived longer and only passed on the 13th of January. Her language is no longer be spoken.

TONY JONES: Are you worried that will happen to the other languages here?

YALMAY YUNUPINGU: Yes.

TONY JONES: Let’s hear from Djawa on that?

KEN WYATT: But Tony, just on that, Tony.

TONY JONES: Yeah.

KEN WYATT: I think it’s important that we perpetuate language because language is the tool that enables us to take our culture and all of those nuances with our culture in the way that we do intonation of voice, song, dance, has to be perpetuated, because that’s the essence of any society or community and it’s important that language is preserved and not lost. In Nyunga country down in the south western area of Western Australia, there is a revival of language and it’s made an incredible difference in schools where it’s being taught because both Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal kids are learning the Nyunga language and it’s building a sense of pride.

TONY JONES: Djawa, can I ask you what you think about this, because governments seem to be moving in the opposite direction? They want kids to learn English first and English predominantly.

DJAWA YUNUPINGU: Good thing you ask me that question because I studied to be a linguist myself and I see no reason why two languages can’t be taught in schools.

TONY JONES: Dhäŋggal, what do you think? You’re a teacher as well.

DHÄŊGGAL GURRUWIWI: I am a teacher and as Yalmay said children are bicultural, because they went through bi-lingual school. As for myself, I went to school. English was my first language but I came back and I sort of do linguistic work as well and I even teach non-Aboriginals the language either through Skype or I just teach them when they…

TONY JONES: I love the idea of you teaching them through Skype. I didn’t even know you had wireless.

DHÄŊGGAL GURRUWIWI: And they are people, some from as far as last week I talked to a person from Cambodia on Skye here at the library at Gulkula. I was sitting outside talking to one. So bilingual is - even though if government would take it away, we’d still be doing it. That’s it.

TONY JONES: Noel, what do you think. Do you have a different opinion on this?

NOEL PEARSON: No, I don’t. I mean when I first started thinking about the school’s challenge many years ago I went to schools in Cape York and I saw communities and families that were desperate about their languages and culture being taught in the school and, of course, the schools were trying to teach the children English and western education and so on and it seemed to be a fight for space, a fight for time, fight for teaching resources and so on and the wan in we’ve approached it with our academy in Cape York is an idea I took from charter schools in the United States which had an extended school day so our academy day starts at 8 o’clock in the morning and it finishes at 4.30 in the afternoon. We’ve got a big agenda. We want to teach two cultures, two languages and in order to do that and so that we’re not kind of having one fighting against the other, we have to open up the time, we have to double the number of teachers, we’ve got to involve Aboriginal teachers in the delivery of our programs, open up the space. It means you’ve got to have more resources because we actually run our teachers in a shift. The guys who start at 8 o’clock finish at 2 o’clock and the guys who start at 10 o’clock go out to 4 o’clock. Now, to resource this on a scale requires us to think about how we might re-engineer after school programs to accommodate an extended school day but in order to be fully bicultural in English and in the language of my community, Guugu Yimidhirr, in order to have facility in both, one of the things that I’m a great believer in is that the need to extend the school day and for more resources to be put into employ teachers to enable that bicultural thing to happen.

TONY JONES: Okay, we’re going to move on because we’ve got quite a few questions to go to and we are running out of time as inevitably happens. We’ve got another question. It’s from Ben Long. Hey Ben, we’ll just get a - yep, we’ve got a microphone there. Go ahead.

EDUCATION – BOARDING SCHOOLBEN LONG: I’m 16 years old and left Darwin for boarding school in Melbourne at the start of this year. I left Darwin because my mum and dad wanted me to have a good future and with access to opportunities. Why do I have to go all the way to Melbourne, away from my family, to get a good education and to fulfil what I want to do when I’m older?

TONY JONES: Joe, can I start with you there?

JOE MORRISON: If I could start with a bit of me own experience. I mean I grew up in a town called Katherine and one of the things I lament in the discussion we just had is the fact that we weren’t able to have bilingual education. In fact, I probably gained my experience in school and started really learning after I left school in fact. But the fact is, in the Northern Territory, even in places like Darwin, the capital city of the Northern Territory, we still are striving to get the levels and the standards of education required for the entire population. That’s, I think, a given and it’s unfortunate and I think it comes with the development of the country and in remote places the gap is even bigger and people, unfortunately, have got to grapple with this question of do I remain in the public system or the system that is available in these remote places or do I have to go somewhere else? I just think in terms of the discussion about Aboriginal Affairs around the country about the enormous disparity between aboriginal people and the rest of the country, that we need to be bold and ambitious. There’s no doubt about it and we can’t take our eye of it and, as I said before, I think we need to certainly embed Aboriginal people in that process so people like Ben, when you go away, you learn that system but you also learn it when you come home and you embrace those things so you can grow and you can foster as a young man and fulfil your real potential. That’s a challenge that the nation faces and it’s particularly a challenge that Aboriginal people face and I take my hat of you to go away because I know how difficult it is for young kids to go away from their families and I just take my hat off to you and hope that you get the most that you can out of life.

TONY JONES: Dhäŋggal, I think you’ve got grandchildren who are at boarding school, is that right?

DHÄŊGGAL GURRUWIWI: Mm.

TONY JONES: Why did you take that decision yourself?

DHÄŊGGAL GURRUWIWI: Well, the same as what you said, getting something for yourself and I’m talking to my two grandchildren. I know you’re watching me now. They both at Wenona girls school in Sydney. I want you to get the best what this young boy here said that question, that you've been asking me all the time why are - what are we doing here? It is for your own good that in the future you will be able to thank me for what I've done to you.

TONY JONES: No, Noel, you have strong feelings about this, because you were sent off to boarding school, and I think you generally support this idea, don’t you?

NOEL PEARSON: Yeah, Absolutely. There's been a tremendous growth in the numbers of remote kids, particularly, going to the best schools in the country. The Australian Indigenous Education Foundation has got a fantastic continental-wide program getting our kids into these best schools. I think the difference between the old residential schools was, you know, there was no choice involved, whereas today parents and grandparents are sending these kids off for a better education. I mean, it would be great if the local school was delivering a quality secondary education. Unfortunately, in the remote parts of the country, these local schools are not up to scratch. It’d be much better if our regional and other high schools in the remote areas were delivering a better education. But it's just a great thing. I think it's important to - it's an important part of the mix but we've also got to fix up the high schools in the north.

TONY JONES: Okay. You're watching Q&A. It’s live from the Garma Festival under the night sky at Gulkula in north east Arnhem Land, the most remote Q&A ever. Our next question comes from Joseph Lew Fatt.

RACISM AT SCHOOLJOSEF LEW FATT: I’m a high school student and I often encounter situations that involve racism, either towards others or myself. How can we change the mindsets of these racist thinkers?

TONY JONES: Ken Wyatt, can I start with you? You've spoken very passionately about this. I’ve heard you already.

KEN WYATT: Yeah. Racism hurts. The comments that people make about you and your Aboriginality or any ethnicity leaves a mark. And I've had it several times throughout my life and I shared in the forum two days ago that, as a child, racism was much more overt. The names we were called, with the type of words we never hear or we only hear them occasionally. But racism doesn't go away because even in my current role I still get barbs from people. I get the trolls on social Facebook or through social media. I ignore them because I feel sorry for them, because it means they haven't had the opportunity of sitting down with me or giving me the opportunity of having a conversation because I see myself no different to any other person because we have the capability, we have the skills and we’ve shown that. It's about developing resilience and resilience is being prepared to let it go over your head. My wife read a letter that I received and she got really upset and she said to me, “Why aren't you reacting?” And I said, “Because the moment I give attention to that person, they have won. By ignoring them and moving on, knowing that they have made that comment, it's like water sliding off a duck's back now. I've got used to that but I will always champion and fight for people who are vulnerable to racism and I will never reconcile from that.

TONY JONES: Nova, we he heard from - thank you. We heard from the Australian of the Year, Adam Goodes, that was said to him in the playground still lives with him now. You can't forget it, he doesn't want to forget it and it still hurts.

NOVA PERIS: It does and like Ken, like myself, like, you know, hundreds and, you know, pretty much, well, probably 90% of Aboriginal people have all suffered racism and it hurts to the bone and we are human beings and we should not be judged upon the colour of our skin, you know, or our beliefs. And I have children, I have a grandson and, as a mother, like what Ken was saying, I teach my children to rise above it and it is very difficult and there's the old saying ‘Sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me’ and but it doesn't take away that pain and that suffering that you endured just for being who you are and, you know, you‘ve got these sporting codes, like with Adam Goodes, the AFL, they’ve done an enormous amount of work for stamping out racism. But I will use this opportunity. As a politician, we’ve seen how, you know, this Government is wanting to repeal the Racial Discrimination Act, which has served this country well and its citizens who are vilified through racial discrimination for almost two decades and when you have political figures, leaders, who are coming out and saying it's okay to be a bigot, it is not okay to a bigot. Racism is not okay.

TONY JONES: Can I - do you mind if I just bring Ken in here?

NOVA PERIS: Yeah.

TONY JONES: Because that came from your side of politics and I know you reacted pretty strongly to it at the time. I mean do you think that change will ever happen to the Racial Discrimination Act?

KEN WYATT: Look, I think what's happening now is 5,000 submissions, or approximately around that number, have come forward to the Attorney-General. I know that he's gone through them and I know - and I can say categorically when that comes back into the party room when we debate it, if it hasn't got the mechanisms for protection, then certainly I will be challenging that lack of commitment.

TONY JONES: You’re still prepared to cross the floor on this?

KEN WYATT: Look, on the principle, yes, I am. On this I want to transcend above the politics. It’s more about a principle of protecting vulnerable people. I know our mob get it all the time but I know other cultural groups experience the same barbs and pain and I don’t want to see that happen. I made a comment to a group of people. In fact, I’ll be open. I made the comment in the party room. I said, “A lot of you in here will never experience racial vilification. It is only a handful of us in this party room that will feel that and, let me tell you, that the pain of that stays with people. It scars them and you’ve got to be strong to transcend that.” So my position won’t change and I certainly hope that when the attorney general brings it back it has the protective measures in it and is not diminished.”

TONY JONES: Djawa, can I bring you back to the question that was asked from this young man, who has experienced racism in the playground. Is your community more sheltered from racism or do you still feel it here?

DJAWA YUNUPINGU: We still feel racism in our communities but, you know, as an elder or a man with family myself, I simply tell people, you know, just take my advice and ignore all of that. Just be proud of who you are really. Proud of yourself and, you know, just simply walk away.

TONY JONES: We’re going to move on because we do have quite a lot of other questions, as I’ve said. This one is from Jens Staermose.

LAND RIGHTSJENS STAERMOSE: This question is to Joe Morrison. On the front page of the Weekend Australian two days ago, the ex-chairman of the Northern Land Council, Galarrwuy Yunupingu, who is from this area, called for northeast Arnhem Land Aboriginal land rights to come home. If that were to happen, would the Northern Land Council become irrelevant?

TONY JONES: Joe?

JOE MORRISON: No, my view is that it wouldn’t. I think what we hear a lot and in my small seven months as the CEO of the Land Council, I understand the Northern Land Council, as is land right generally across the country, has been and remains a polarising matter that Aboriginal people take seriously. And when you have significant leaders, like Mr Yunupingu, calling for that to occur, I mean, obviously you can’t ignore it, is one thing, but, secondly, understanding the actual details of it and I’m glad to say that we’ve had, in the last, 24 hours, very productive conversations with the family, with Djawa, and with other members about rekindling relationship between the Northern Land Council and some of these leaders and understanding that the Northern Land Council operates across a population of at least 36,000 Aboriginal people. It’s a profoundly important piece of legislation. It provides communal property rights for people, real recognition in the Australian parliament about the uniqueness of Aboriginal culture and that’s a serious debate that should only, in my mind, occur between Aboriginal people and that’s at least my commitment is that we are giving to all Aboriginal people in the Northern Land Council region an ability for us to have a conversation about it. I can certainly understand the need for local autonomy but I do think we can achieve that under our existing arrangements but we are having a dialogue.

TONY JONES: Joe, just very briefly, I’m sorry to interrupt you, but just very briefly are you saying you’re actually allowed to - you’re actually prepared to allow much more autonomy for communities, like Djawa’s, to actually make decisions on development outside of the Land Council?

JOE MORRISON: No, what I’m saying is these things can operate within the existing structure. I think, at the end of the day, everyone, from what I understand, would agree that we do not want more amendments to the Aboriginal Land Rights Act and we particularly don’t want politicians to be hoisting that without the consent of Aboriginal people who…

TONY JONES: Are you talking about Nigel Scullion, who wanted to put a series of regulations which…

JOE MORRISON: Well, Nigel’s one of many that have tried and some have been successful but Nigel’s the last and the latest minister that has attempted to do this. Now, regardless of what people think about individuals, at the end of the day I believe that it’s the responsibility of the Federal Parliament to ensure that Aboriginal people are part of that. You just can’t go around changing things without Aboriginal people being part of that conversation. It’s there for their purposes.

TONY JONES: Well, let me ask, Galarrwuy and yourself have both made some big statements. It seemed to be you wanted - it seemed, looking at it from the outside, that you wanted to redefine the way land rights work. Is that true? What is it you actually want?

DJAWA YUNUPINGU: Many things come out of a journalist, right? Many stories. My brother and myself simply said we have no intention of breaking away from the Northern Land Council. All we want is authority - a regional authority - over our own piece of country here. The Northern Land Council has been terrific to us. It has helped us in many, many ways. It has also helped us gain our mining agreement. It’s looked after many Aboriginal people and helped us protect our country for us. So we said we do not want to break away from the Land Council, the Northern Land Council. The Northern Land Council - we want the Northern Land Council to support us.

TONY JONES: And does that mean support to do things like create private ownership on your own land?

DJAWA YUNUPINGU: Absolutely.

TONY JONES: So what is that - what is the extent of that? Do you mean private ownership so people can buy their houses and would it matter then if they sold them on to other people who weren’t from your community?

DJAWA YUNUPINGU: Not only do we talk about house, like you are saying, we want economic development on our own country. We want to have what comes out of our ground. We want the wealth. We want to put a shine into our countryman's eyes. We want to help people. We want to create jobs for our people. We want to employ our own people. But the real message we do not want to break away from the Northern Land Council.

TONY JONES: Can I just press you on this one point: is it possible to change the idea of communal ownership of land and break it down to private ownership of land, so individuals could buy houses, something that Marcia Langton has talked about, something that other communities are doing.

DJAWA YUNUPINGU: We want the Northern Land Council to help us in getting what we want on our own country. Joe, because, you know, I talk to Joe, if you don't mind, because, you know, the stages that we get through in getting a lease, yeah, it, you know, gets very…

TONY JONES: Too complicated.

DJAWA YUNUPINGU: …complicated and that’s what our country men in our region are looking - you know, seeing. So it's a process that, you know, it normally takes about two to three months because of doing this and doing that and, you know, and, you know, they get frustrated over - over things that, you know, they see.

TONY JONES: All right. Well, you were speaking to Joe and because we’re running out of time I’m going to throw it straight to Joe to hear whether you think this could work, whether these two things could co-exist: the idea of communal land, as controlled by the Northern Land Council, and private land organised and perhaps sold by the community here?

JOE MORRISON: I think it's entirely doable. I think we need to look at the issues of the fungibility of title. Obviously communal property rights is fundamentally important for Aboriginal people because it recognises the unique culture and attachment that people have got. Now, I think we need to be - we use this word bold in - visionary in respects of how does that translate into the things like home ownership? Now, I don't think the things are necessarily exclusive to each other but we haven't seen any evidence to suggest that communal property rights, at least in our region and we’ve granted three 99-year home ownership leases, the last one was done about six months ago, less than six months ago, where people can then use that lease to go and get a home loan. So these things can be done and we are and my chairman and myself and the executive today gave the commitment to the family and others that we are wanting to work with traditional owners to that end so we can take that next step in land rights. We have almost 40 years into the land right s Act, and now we need to start thinking about how do we translate that into economic, social and outcomes for people, so they can enjoy all of the fruits available for them on their country.

TONY JONES: Can I just briefly hear from Noel Pearson on this? Marcia Langton talks about this as if it's a sort of silver bullet, private ownership. Do you think it is?

JOE MORRISON: It's question facing groups across the country where there's communal title to land but families and individuals want to develop the land, use the land, conduct businesses, build homes and so on. I think it's pretty clear in what I've seen around the countryside but what you see internationally is, if you don't give people private tenures, you won't get development and so it's a real dilemma. You know, you don't want a Swiss cheese hole to start happening over communal land but, at the same time, we face this kind of lesson from development which is that unless there's private tenure of some sort, you can't get investment in everything else and I think there's a way of reconciling it through long-term leases and so on. But I think that - in my own home community I can stand on the boundary of freehold land on this side and communal land on this side and all the development investment is happening on the freehold side. It's a real challenge for us but I think that there is an accommodation that can be reached that can keep communal land safe but issue long-term leases to individuals.

TONY JONES: Okay, let's keep moving on. With the time we've got left we want some more questions. We have one got one from Amanda Langlois.

EXCELLENCE – DEADLY AWARDSAMANDA LANGLOIS: My question is regarding renowned educationalist Aboriginal educationalist Dr Chris Sarra. He states that outcomes for Aboriginal students will improve when false, negative stereotypes of Aboriginal people are challenged and all Australians celebrate what it is to be Aboriginal, both culture and achievements. Do you believe that this Federal Government is sincere when it says it wants to close the educational gap when it cuts funding to programs like the Deadly Awards, which are such a widely recognised platform upon which we can celebrate Aboriginal achievements and culture?

TONY JONES: Ken Wyatt, we’ll start with you. We need to keep our answers short now so we can get through some more questions.

KEN WYATT: Look it’s important. Education is important. Your question goes to a number of issues around budgetary decisions. It also goes to particular projects and initiatives that occur. I made a comment recently that governments are often advised by their agencies and I think one of the challenges we have is that people don't really know what happens on the ground in those organisations. I was involved with the Deadly Awards by supporting it when I was in New South Wales and let me say the outcome of the awards night was a stunning feature of building the strength of our belief in each other because they were acknowledged for it. And change has to come in terms of education and the commitments and I believe that we will hold our place in the future equal to that of any other person. But my point would be that I would like to see Ministers for Aboriginal affairs at every layer of Government sit down with their opposition member holding the shadow portfolio and, in our case the Greens member, and then for them to look at the priorities of how all three major parties or both parties in State and Territories commit to a 10-year strategy that is unwavering, commits funding and builds on what has been achieved to close the gap because it would then eliminate governments having to come in and make changes based on the individual thoughts of a particular Minister. I have seen that time in, time out over the years, and I think a truly multi-partisan approach, over a decade, to the education of Aboriginal young people would make an incredible difference. It would also apply to all programs.

TONY JONES: Now, Ken, in the meantime, should someone find the money for the Deadly Awards, which were hugely successful as a demonstration of Aboriginal excellence?

KEN WYATT: I have had a discussion with the Parliamentary Secretary and suggested that we should seriously look at reviving the Dead Awards itself but I know an evaluation was undertaken by KPMG and that money was provided by the Commonwealth for a transition period, which would have enabled those Deadly Awards to occur. I think the facet that was or the part of it that was being debated was the magazine. But, look, there is still thoughts around the importance of the Deadlies. The commitment is there and I've not seen the evaluation report.

TONY JONES: Nova just wants to respond to this.

NOVA PERIS: I think government made a really, really, really bad decision in cutting the - well, what was in effect of the entire budget of the Vibe. But it wasn't - Gavin Jones who, unfortunately, is no longer with us, he dedicated his life to inspiring Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children and across this entire country. A report was undertaken in November and December, where KPMG gave an absolute glowing report of his entire program. Gavin's program, he succeeded in obtaining funding for 19 years. This should have been the 20th year of the Deadlies. Gavin's magazines reached out to 55,000 Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander kids across this country. He was a Logie finalist this year for one of his television programs. His radio programs that reached out right across this country, the 3on3s, you know, they were mentoring programs. They were, you know, the entire major event on a calendar year for Aboriginal kids, which I know they came here to Yirrkala many times. This was a program that should never, ever have been cut and what we’ve seen now where a Government wants to say we want to close the gap on health and education and reduce incarcerations, all of those things is what Gavin's program encompassed and it did all of that and I won't have anyone tell me any different. That program should never have been cut. It was advised badly but, again, if someone had have actually read the report, that says that program should never have been cut.

TONY JONES: I am sorry to…

KEN WYATT: Sorry, there is…

TONY JONES: Yeah.

KEN WYATT: There was ongoing funding and there were discussions that did occur, so it is not totally true to say it was cut in the sense that you have described.

NOVA PERIS: Well, there…

KEN WYATT: But let me also say that there are other commitments to a range of programs for education at the community level across this nation and there are challenges for all governments in the way that they fund education programs, tackle incarceration rates, improve health outcomes, improve economic participation and you have to make judgments sometimes as to what the reach is and I don’t disagree with you…

NOVA PERIS: And this reach was six out of ten.

KEN WYATT: No, no, but I don’t disagree with you.

NOVA PERIS: Six out of ten Aboriginal kids right across this country.

KEN WYATT: No, but we are also talking about those at the frontline that have a direct impact on them where…

NOVA PERIS: It was a frontline service.

TONY JONES: I’m sorry, I’m going to have to wind up.

KEN WYATT: No, that’s fine.

TONY JONES: Because we have got - I’m sorry to those with their hands up on this issue too. We have time for only one last question, I’m sorry to say. It comes from Gina Smith.

WALKING IN BOTH WORLDSGINA SMITH: As a Warumungu woman I live in three worlds. In the European world I live, so I have a house, a job and two children; in my wumparani world I am responsible for passing on my culture to my extended family and the community; and in my third world, I have to meet the obligations of both worlds. So as leaders, how do you balance your worlds without compromising your culture and your values?

TONY JONES: I will start Dhäŋggal here. Dhäŋggal?

DHÄŊGGAL GURRUWIWI: I am no leader but…

TONY JONES: People are laughing at that. I think you probably are, whether you know it or not.

DHÄŊGGAL GURRUWIWI: If you say so. Yeah.

GINA SMITH: She is right. As indigenous people, we are not - we don't, sorry, claim ourselves as leaders because we are chosen, yeah.

DHÄŊGGAL GURRUWIWI: Yeah.

TONY JONES: So how do you walk in these different worlds?

DHÄŊGGAL GURRUWIWI: Well, as an individual, I know I have families everywhere and, therefore, in this area in the north eastern Arnhem we're all related from here down to as far as (inaudible). There are ways that we can find for ourselves how to be able to do things. You go up to this side of the world where the western society and then there’s our side. We, as Yolngu can, stabilise ourselves with what we have and then go out to face the world with what we have. It doesn't matter if what we have within us is the thing that we can all achieve out there.

TONY JONES: Djawa, do you see it the same way?

DJAWA YUNUPINGU: I see it the same way. When we look for the next leadership, we don't normally appoint one. We tend to not judge the person first. We tell the person - not tell them but we can always…

DHÄŊGGAL GURRUWIWI: Advise them.

DJAWA YUNUPINGU: …advise them to be the next leader in your own group. We look on a person that is very, very smart, is of cultural knowledge, who can carry out ceremonial duties and that's when the leaders say we want him next to be the next leader in our own community.

TONY JONES: And do you also look for people who can work out how to live in the other world?

DJAWA YUNUPINGU: Yes.

TONY JONES: The white world.

DJAWA YUNUPINGU: The white world.

TONY JONES: Yeah. Nova, how about you?

NOVA PERIS: Yeah, one of the the things I find is that you never lose and never forget the substance of who you are as a person. All the things that I have done in my lifetime, in sports and now in politics, is nothing compared to what my grandmother endured and her ability to wake up every day and find a reason to live for. And what she endured in those 12 years of those mission days were just horrific and I can't even imagine what it must have been like. So I think that walking in the world as an Aboriginal person in a white man's world is relatively easy because, at times, when the going gets tough, I think you've got nothing on what your grandmother went through and it's being able to draw upon that strength as who you are as an Aboriginal person and there's not a reason that I wake up every day and think I can't go on because, if I do that, then I am failing the people who have fought before me. And, you know, as women, we're the creators of our children. You know, like the fathers, we are all mentors and we're all role models for our children. So I think, first and foremost, it's identifying who you are and the reason, you know, why we have to go forward.

TONY JONES: Ken, is there conflict between the two worlds?

KEN WYATT: No, there’s not because I stay grounded in my family and in my community. I listened over years to leaders around me. I’ve listened to elders across this nation. I have learnt the lessons from them and learnt how to walk wisely, to listen with respect and to work closely with people and to honour your commitment to the people who put you in a leadership role. When I was elected, Noongar elders came and put on my shoulders a booka with two red feathers and they said to me, “You are one of our boordiyas. You have a role as a leader. Lead for the people of Hasluck but also don't forget to continue to remain grounded in Noongar community and in the Aboriginal society.”

TONY JONES: Joe?

JOE MORRISON: I don't think they're necessarily conflictual but there’s always potential for conflict between being seen to be a leader in the non-Aboriginal world and then being a leader in your Aboriginal community: By the way, Gina, I think that you’re a leader, given what I know and understand what you’ve done in Tennant Creek, Tennant Creek being a very polarising town. But I do think it's also part of understanding the nature of the trade-offs, because if you're good at one thing then you have to give up something somewhere else and if you're able to realise that and understand the nature of the balance that you need to put out there, then I think obviously you can walk between those two worlds in a lot more of a comfortable fashion but understanding that just because you're perceived to be a leader in non-Aboriginal society is not necessarily the same as being a leader in your Aboriginal society.

TONY JONES: Finally, Noel, you have put a lot of thought into this. You get the final word here but it has to be reasonably quick.

NOEL PEARSON: Yeah. Yeah. Our vision for young people in Cape York is to be bicultural. We borrowed that from Dr Yunupingu's concept. We were inspired by the idea of biculturalism. I don't think we quite realise how absolutely privileged Aboriginal kids are to have two cultures available to them. They can live and achieve in the best of both. And in Cape York our vision is that we should have a strong home base, but we should go out into the world in orbits and come back home. We say Cape York to New York. We want our children to have a strong home base but also have the facility to go out into the world in pursuit of art, sport, education, careers but always be anchored back home and I think that privilege of biculturalism - my dream is that one day the non-Aboriginal kids of Australia will share that biculturalism. They will also have the privilege of learning something about and connecting with the original languages and cultures of this country.

And we will all share in that great privilege.

TONY JONES: Thank you very much and hold your applause because you’ll get a chance to do that again in a minute because, sadly, we’re out of time. So much more that we need to discuss. Please thank our panel: Joe Morrison, Noel Pearson, Dhäŋggal Gurruwiwi, Djawa Yunupingu, Nova Peris and Ken Wyatt. Thank you and a very special thanks to our Yolngu host, the Yothu Yindi Foundation, the Garma Festival and this amazing audience. Give yourselves a quick round of applause. Thank you very much. Now, next Monday, Q&A will be joined by the former Labor Cabinet Minister Greg Combet, Sussan Ley, Canadian professor of theology and culture John Stackhouse, Wikileaks and human rights lawyer Jen Robinson and the editor of the IPA’s FreedomWatch, Simon Breheny. And we’ll finish tonight with Emma Donovan, Jonathan Pease, Pattu Powell and Declan Kelly performing their version of Midnight Oil's Dead Heart. Until next Monday’s Q&A, goodnight.

Noel Pearson, founder of the Cape York Institute for policy and leadership, is one of Australia’s most articulate and charismatic Indigenous leaders.

Since 1999 Noel has campaigned for welfare reform in Indigenous communities. He is the chairman of the Cape York Partnership and was instrumental in helping establish Apunipima Health Council, Balkanu Cape York Development Corporation and Indigenous Enterprise Partnerships. In 2008 the Welfare Reform Project, driven by the Cape York Institute and Cape York Partnership, was implemented in four pilot communities in Cape York. Noel’s goal is to enable Cape York’s Indigenous people to have the capacity to choose the life they have reason to value by reinstating the rights of Aboriginal people to take responsibility for their lives. Descriptions of these ideas can be found in his monograph Our Right to Take Responsibility as well as his numerous published works.

Noel is a history and law graduate of the University of Sydney. In 1990 he co-founded the Cape York Land Council and was Executive Director until 1996. In 1993 he acted as representative to the traditional owners in the first successful land claim. Following the Mabo decision of the High Court of Australia, he played a key part in negotiations over the Native Title Act 1993 as a member of the Indigenous negotiating team.

Nova Peris is known to many Australians as a Labor Senator and a champion sportswoman, but less is known about her Indigenous heritage.

Nova is a traditional land-owner who is descended from, and identifies with, the Kiga People of the East Kimberley, the Yawuru People of the West Kimberley (Broome) and the Muran People of West Arnhem Land in the Northern Territory. She was born and raised in Darwin and her mother, grandmother and grandfather are all members of the ‘Stolen Generations’ from respective missions on the Tiwi islands, Moola Bulla of the East Kimberley and Beagle Bay of the West Kimberley.

Nova has extensive community experience addressing Indigenous disadvantage, particularly in the Northern Territory. She helped deliver more than 100 health and education checks across communities Australia-wide and has worked to establish the innovative Nova Peris Girls Academy (NGPA) over the past three years. This focuses on keeping Aboriginal girls engaged with education.

Known to many Australians for her sporting achievements, Nova was part of the Australian women’s hockey team that won gold at the 1996 Olympics in Atlanta. She became the first Indigenous Australian, and the first Territorian, to win a gold medal. Nova then switched to athletics and became a double gold medallist at the 1998 Commonwealth Games in Kuala Lumpur. She also competed at the Sydney Olympics in 2000, making the finals of the 400m relay. She is the only person ever to make back-to-back Olympic finals in two different sports.

Nova became the first female Aboriginal parliamentarian after she was elected to represent the Northern Territory in the Senate following the September 2013 election, having been selected by then Prime Minister Julia Gillard in a ‘captain’s pick.’ Nova has since taken on the role of Deputy Chair of the joint select committee to recognise Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people in the Australian Constitution.

Ken Wyatt was elected in 2010 as the Federal Member for Hasluck, an electorate south-west of Perth, making history as the first Indigenous Member of the House of Representatives.

Before entering politics Ken worked in community roles in the fields of health and education, including as District Director for the Swan Education District and Director of Aboriginal Health in Western Australia.

Ken has also contributed to the wider community in training and mentoring young people. This was recognised in 1996 when Ken was awarded the Order of Australia in the Queen’s Birthday Honours list. Later, in 2000, Ken was awarded a Centenary of Federation Medal for ‘his efforts and contribution to improving the quality of life for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people and mainstream Australian society in education and health.’

Ken brings his knowledge in the areas of health and education to his role as member for Hasluck, as well as a lifetime of experiences in raising a family and being part of the local Perth community. Ken was re-elected in the 2013 Federal election, not only increasing his margin but becoming the first person in history to hold the seat at consecutive elections.

Ken is an active member of House of Representatives committees for health and human rights Committees. He also chairs is the Joint Select Committee on Constitutional Recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples.

Djawa Yunupingu is a senior member of the Gumatj clan in north-east Arnhem Land.

Djawa sits on the Gumatj Board as well as the Yothu Yindi Foundation Board. He is currently the Deputy Chairman of Gumatj.

He is the senior cultural adviser at Dhimurru Land Management Aboriginal Corporation and has been with Dhimurru for the last 12 years. Djawa was one of the founding members of the Dhimurru Land Corporation which is responsible for looking after the land environment of north-east Arnhem Land. His previous position was as a senior ranger and he has a certificate in natural and cultural resource management.

Djawa sits on the steering committee for the Carpentaria Ghost Net Program and the Marine Turtle Recovery Group, and also played a leading role in the National Oceans Office sea country planning.

Since 2008 Djawa has led the work of Marngarr Resource Centre which is a local resource agency that provides training, employment and work.

Joe Morrison, CEO of the Northern Land Council, was born and raised in Katherine and has Dagoman and Torres Strait Islander heritage.

After growing up and going to school in Katherine, he gained a BA from the University of Sydney in natural resource management and set about working with Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders to establish land and sea management efforts across northern Australia.

Joe’s first job after leaving school was at the Northern Land Council from 1992-94. He worked first at the old mechanical workshop at Coconut Grove, then moved into administration at the NLC's Registry Office.

He then moved on to Greening Australia where he helped to establish the Aboriginal Landcare Education Program, designing living areas on Aboriginal communities.

In 1998 Joe began work with Northern Territory Parks and Wildlife as a land management facilitator, establishing land and sea ranger groups in south-east Arnhem Land and elsewhere.

Two years later he became founding CEO of the North Australian Indigenous Land and Sea Management Alliance. Joe nurtured the development of NAILSMA from a small unit within a large western science-focused research institution to a nationally recognised Aboriginal institution operating across tropical northern Australia.

Joe has an ambitious agenda for his new role as NLC CEO, connecting with the NLC's constituency to reinvigorate the importance of maintaining control over the lands and waters that Aboriginal people have fought hard for and to work towards appropriate social, cultural and economic development that creates lasting employment opportunities in a post determination era.

Joe has authored and co-authored many articles relating to Indigenous rights, management of country, economic development and of northern development.

Dhäŋggal Gurruwiwi is a Gälpu clan elder living on her traditional land at Birritjimi. Her traditional language is Dhaŋu. She worked as a teacher at Shepherdson College and the bilingual school at Galiwin’ku.

Dhäŋggal was born on Elcho in 1955 and she has an incredible knowledge about Yolngu history.

She currently works as an interpreter and translator of Yolŋgu languages, is involved in research and consultancy work, and operates a cultural tourism business.