All of their money from the past came off the hard working backs of the working man. Their current investments came from that money. They own so much of BP, Canada, and many other parts of the world (including much of the banking sector).

Then they go on TV and everybody's heart is throbbing because it's a princess/prince story.

LOL, it eeks my stomach out. They are only flaunting money that they forced others to pay them at one time. It's like a royal "food stamp" wedding, but they have fleeced the common man for his money & for food.

They feel like they are "entitled" because they give themselves "titles".

I'm a borderline anarchist and still no. The royal family had their use in the past and if they had more power today England might not be devolving into the nanny-state nonsense she's seeing now. Let the British hold on to whatever tradition they have left, they need it.

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"Funny," said Lancelot, "how the people who can't pray say that prayers are not answered, however much the people who can pray say they are." TH White

Anyway, I don't see how one can be spiteful towards them. Does it really matter? Do you feel spite towards the middle and upper classes of today's society? We deserve it just as much (if not more) than monarchs like this.

The monarchs represent far more than just themselves, and so all the pomp and circumstance and regalia is certainly grand and aristocratic, but as we saw today, it stands for far more than the monarchy itself.

All of their money from the past came off the hard working backs of the working man. Their current investments came from that money. They own so much of BP, Canada, and many other parts of the world (including much of the banking sector).

Then they go on TV and everybody's heart is throbbing because it's a princess/prince story.

LOL, it eeks my stomach out. They are only flaunting money that they forced others to pay them at one time. It's like a royal "food stamp" wedding, but they have fleeced the common man for his money & for food.

They feel like they are "entitled" because they give themselves "titles".

First of all, why do you care? Would you like me to launch into a diatribe about the foibles of US Presidents and ask how you can support such a system?

Do you feel the same way about the despotic monarchs of some Middle Eastern nations? What about the republican presidents of China, North Korea, and elsewhere? Do they receive your admiration or your spite?

If it's just that you aren't interested in the media attention given to them, leave it alone. Listen to the current antics of Charlie Sheen and that ilk instead.

Finally and most importantly, if you have such spite, shouldn't you be praying about that and seeking some spiritual guidance?

All of their money from the past came off the hard working backs of the working man. Their current investments came from that money. They own so much of BP, Canada, and many other parts of the world (including much of the banking sector).

Then they go on TV and everybody's heart is throbbing because it's a princess/prince story.

LOL, it eeks my stomach out. They are only flaunting money that they forced others to pay them at one time. It's like a royal "food stamp" wedding, but they have fleeced the common man for his money & for food.

They feel like they are "entitled" because they give themselves "titles".

Do you have any spite of what they have done?

So you hate people because of what their family did? Thats classy. Monarchies are one of the best forms of government in my opinion.

She's touring the facility/and picking up slack.--"For in much wisdom is much grief, and he who increases knowledge increases sorrow." Ecclesiastes 1:18--I once believed in causes too, I had my pointless point of view --Life went on no matter who was wrong or right

Anyway, I don't see how one can be spiteful towards them. Does it really matter? Do you feel spite towards the middle and upper classes of today's society? We deserve it just as much (if not more) than monarchs like this.

The monarchs represent far more than just themselves, and so all the pomp and circumstance and regalia is certainly grand and aristocratic, but as we saw today, it stands for far more than the monarchy itself.

Absolutely not. Most of the upper & middle classes today have earned their money.

The monarchs TOOK their money from hard working people. Then they go flaunt it like if they are the epiphany of greatness.

All of their money from the past came off the hard working backs of the working man. Their current investments came from that money. They own so much of BP, Canada, and many other parts of the world (including much of the banking sector).

Then they go on TV and everybody's heart is throbbing because it's a princess/prince story.

LOL, it eeks my stomach out. They are only flaunting money that they forced others to pay them at one time. It's like a royal "food stamp" wedding, but they have fleeced the common man for his money & for food.

They feel like they are "entitled" because they give themselves "titles".

Do you have any spite of what they have done?

So you hate people because of what their family did? Thats classy. Monarchies are one of the best forms of government in my opinion.

Yes because they kept all the money they stole off the backs of hard working people, and flaunt it in our faces. They are evil and wicked. From generation to generation their cursed money passed on. Here you have it, fancy isn't it? How many starved for their fortunes?

First of all, why do you care? Would you like me to launch into a diatribe about the foibles of US Presidents and ask how you can support such a system?

Do you feel the same way about the despotic monarchs of some Middle Eastern nations? What about the republican presidents of China, North Korea, and elsewhere? Do they receive your admiration or your spite?

If it's just that you aren't interested in the media attention given to them, leave it alone. Listen to the current antics of Charlie Sheen and that ilk instead.

Finally and most importantly, if you have such spite, shouldn't you be praying about that and seeking some spiritual guidance?

Yes you are correct, I do not like the leaders of China or North Korea.

I do not like the Monarchies and elite of this world. They hurt their nations through centuries and flaunt it in our faces. They even own banking cartels and print currencies today which regulate our payment for work (money value). They are criminals in my opinion.

Finally, no, I don't think I should pray for guidance of my dislike for tyrants. I didn't see Yeshua kissing up to Pilate.

Our government here in America is our servants, (public servants), hence, Romans 13 doesn't apply as that is for "authorities".

They are only flaunting money that they forced others to pay them at one time. It's like a royal "food stamp" wedding, but they have fleeced the common man for his money & for food.

They feel like they are "entitled" because they give themselves "titles".

hm....didn't the Bolsheviks say this about the Tzar?

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"At the Last Judgment I will not be asked whether I satisfactorily practiced asceticism, nor how many bows I have made before the divine altar. I will be asked whether I fed the hungry, clothed the naked, visited the sick, and the prisoner in his jail. That is all I will be asked." - Sv. Maria Skobotsova

All of their money from the past came off the hard working backs of the working man. Their current investments came from that money. They own so much of BP, Canada, and many other parts of the world (including much of the banking sector).

Then they go on TV and everybody's heart is throbbing because it's a princess/prince story.

LOL, it eeks my stomach out. They are only flaunting money that they forced others to pay them at one time. It's like a royal "food stamp" wedding, but they have fleeced the common man for his money & for food.

They feel like they are "entitled" because they give themselves "titles".

Do you have any spite of what they have done?

So you hate people because of what their family did? Thats classy. Monarchies are one of the best forms of government in my opinion.

Yes because they kept all the money they stole off the backs of hard working people, and flaunt it in our faces. They are evil and wicked. From generation to generation their cursed money passed on. Here you have it, fancy isn't it? How many starved for their fortunes?

Dude, stop feeding me BS, every government does that. So what do you want to do, hm? I bet you'd like to be a leader.

Just a general warning that this discussion is starting to border on the political, if it hasn't already crossed the line. Please be careful, otherwise you risk seeing some/all of this thread moved to Politics and warnings handed out to culpable parties.

"At the Last Judgment I will not be asked whether I satisfactorily practiced asceticism, nor how many bows I have made before the divine altar. I will be asked whether I fed the hungry, clothed the naked, visited the sick, and the prisoner in his jail. That is all I will be asked." - Sv. Maria Skobotsova

All of their money from the past came off the hard working backs of the working man. Their current investments came from that money. They own so much of BP, Canada, and many other parts of the world (including much of the banking sector).

Then they go on TV and everybody's heart is throbbing because it's a princess/prince story.

LOL, it eeks my stomach out. They are only flaunting money that they forced others to pay them at one time. It's like a royal "food stamp" wedding, but they have fleeced the common man for his money & for food.

They feel like they are "entitled" because they give themselves "titles".

Just a general warning that this discussion is starting to border on the political, if it hasn't already crossed the line. Please be careful, otherwise you risk seeing some/all of this thread moved to Politics and warnings handed out to culpable parties.

I've been told to ask Fr. Chris for access to the political sections. I don't know who that is but I'd love access. ;o)

Anyway, I don't see how one can be spiteful towards them. Does it really matter? Do you feel spite towards the middle and upper classes of today's society? We deserve it just as much (if not more) than monarchs like this.

The monarchs represent far more than just themselves, and so all the pomp and circumstance and regalia is certainly grand and aristocratic, but as we saw today, it stands for far more than the monarchy itself.

Absolutely not. Most of the upper & middle classes today have earned their money.

The monarchs TOOK their money from hard working people. Then they go flaunt it like if they are the epiphany of greatness.

Anyway, I don't see how one can be spiteful towards them. Does it really matter? Do you feel spite towards the middle and upper classes of today's society? We deserve it just as much (if not more) than monarchs like this.

The monarchs represent far more than just themselves, and so all the pomp and circumstance and regalia is certainly grand and aristocratic, but as we saw today, it stands for far more than the monarchy itself.

Absolutely not. Most of the upper & middle classes today have earned their money.

The monarchs TOOK their money from hard working people. Then they go flaunt it like if they are the epiphany of greatness.

Not to be technical, but some members of the royal family have served in the military, so they did have 'real jobs.' Also, they bring in lots of money when tourists come to see them, thus repaying the country for what they get. Yes, it's a big, showy wedding, but what did you expect, $18 at the clerk of the court's office? The money they spend will employ caterers, waiters, clothing designers, etc.

I'm pretty sure the royal family also has a number of charitable foundations, so they do give at least something to good causes every year.

All that said, I'm more in favor of democracies, but... there's not a heck of a lot I can do about the wedding, even if I wanted to, so I'm not going to waste my time hating them.

All of their money from the past came off the hard working backs of the working man. Their current investments came from that money. They own so much of BP, Canada, and many other parts of the world (including much of the banking sector).

Then they go on TV and everybody's heart is throbbing because it's a princess/prince story.

LOL, it eeks my stomach out. They are only flaunting money that they forced others to pay them at one time. It's like a royal "food stamp" wedding, but they have fleeced the common man for his money & for food.

They feel like they are "entitled" because they give themselves "titles".

Do you have any spite of what they have done?

So you hate people because of what their family did? Thats classy. Monarchies are one of the best forms of government in my opinion.

Yes because they kept all the money they stole off the backs of hard working people, and flaunt it in our faces. They are evil and wicked. From generation to generation their cursed money passed on. Here you have it, fancy isn't it? How many starved for their fortunes?

So it wasn't a hard job to be king? Defend your nation against constant wars? Keep it from tearing apart? Establishing all those charitable endowments, schools, churches, monasteries, etc? Yeah, there were certainly problems and excesses, but that's the same as in "democracy" where mobs tend to steal money and kill people in the spirit of making things "even"...

Anyway, I don't see how one can be spiteful towards them. Does it really matter? Do you feel spite towards the middle and upper classes of today's society? We deserve it just as much (if not more) than monarchs like this.

The monarchs represent far more than just themselves, and so all the pomp and circumstance and regalia is certainly grand and aristocratic, but as we saw today, it stands for far more than the monarchy itself.

Absolutely not. Most of the upper & middle classes today have earned their money.

The monarchs TOOK their money from hard working people. Then they go flaunt it like if they are the epiphany of greatness.

Render unto Caesar...

That's not Caesar.

Whose face is on the money? Queen Elizabeth. Render unto Queen Elizabeth what is Queen Elizabeth's.

The royals are in charge because a long time ago their ancestors in a rather Darwinian way—survival of the fittest—slowly conquered/merged with all the other kingdoms in the British Isles. Their family has provided for their subjects down through the ages by protecting them and strengthening their nation. It's all a very organic process. You make it sound like a conspiracy, and there may have been a few in the mix, but overall it's just something that happened. It's very normal human tribalism on a grand scale, and a very natural form of government.

Or it was because a watery tart threw a sword at them.

Either way, they're in charge and in their country, all authority flows from them. The money is theirs because their bank prints it and it has their matriarch's picture on it.

Of course, in today's world the people have stripped away most of their actual power away. They are the uniative symbols of their country, just like in the US we have the Presidency and its many accoutrements, as well as many other things like celebrities.

Heck, in the Church we have pomp and circumstance for our bishops. It is simple human nature: we shower gifts on those who we perceive to be our common leaders and defenders.

And finally, are you even one of the Queen's subjects anyway? If not, why do you even care?

All of their money from the past came off the hard working backs of the working man. Their current investments came from that money. They own so much of BP, Canada, and many other parts of the world (including much of the banking sector).

Then they go on TV and everybody's heart is throbbing because it's a princess/prince story.

LOL, it eeks my stomach out. They are only flaunting money that they forced others to pay them at one time. It's like a royal "food stamp" wedding, but they have fleeced the common man for his money & for food.

They feel like they are "entitled" because they give themselves "titles".

Do you have any spite of what they have done?

Why should I have any spite towards them? And even if I had reason to, didn't some guy say something about loving our enemies or something like that? I know I heard that somewhere...

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Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a vulgar brawl. ~Frederick the Great

Not to be technical, but some members of the royal family have served in the military, so they did have 'real jobs.' Also, they bring in lots of money when tourists come to see them, thus repaying the country for what they get. Yes, it's a big, showy wedding, but what did you expect, $18 at the clerk of the court's office? The money they spend will employ caterers, waiters, clothing designers, etc.

I was listening to BBC Radio this morning, and they pointed out that Prince William is—and will continue to be—a full-time RAF pilot, and the Dutchess Catherine will be living the life of a military wife, likely until William becomes heir-apparent.

It's not as if these people are lying around on couches all day, eating grapes.

[edit] And if I'm not mistaken, they depend a good deal on their personal wealth these days, not so much taxes. These aren't the Middle Ages, after all.

All that said, I'm more in favor of democracies, but... there's not a heck of a lot I can do about the wedding, even if I wanted to, so I'm not going to waste my time hating them.

We're in agreement on the basic point, but just to clarify, I think you mean "republic" not "democracy". Last time I checked, Canada, UK, Sweden, Netherlands, et al., definitely qualify as democracies. On the other hand, we can easily name a few republics that are anything but democracies.

All monarchies have mad their fortunes by plundering from others, either foreign nations or their own citizens. This doesn't disqualify all the good that they have done throughout the centuries (Henry VIII and his harlot daughter not withstanding). Who would possibly have a qualm with these royal nuptials? English republicans? Wild eyed, disgruntled Irishmen? Scottish Calvinist? American slack jawed, tea party types? I sure don't.

The land of my ancestors used to have a monarchy, but the allies pressured us to get ride of it after the last war? I wish that they'd bring it back soon so that Italy can have some stability and reverence returned to her civic life as before (Although, to be fair that monarchy was composed of a lot of anti clericalism and Freemasons so it wasn't a "true" Christian monarchy in the strict sense as was Spains or Russia's).

All countries would do well to have some type of monarchy or figurehead to be s shinning example for them, just like the English have with theirs.

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Men may dislike truth, men may find truth offensive and inconvenient, men may persecute the truth, subvert it, try by law to suppress it. But to maintain that men have the final power over truth is blasphemy, and the last delusion. Truth lives forever, men do not.-- Gustave Flaubert

The wedding was on the TV in my gym here yesterday, and yes, of course, every historical monarchy had it's share of baggage, but the tradition, especially in this day and age, is a worthy thing to hold on to. We got to talking in the gym about it, and how in spite of the many, many excesses and abuses of the Tsars (our founding father, Петр I, probably the worst of them, at least to the Church), it would be very cool in some ways if Russia had a similar figurehead these days, a ceremonial figurehead Romanov, remaining from the past. Could you imagine how those weddings would be?

As to the abuses that created, or helped to create their wealth, every era has it's reforms, and it's own take on what is or is not acceptable. There is a lot of context to all of this, and the major precedents for taking the money of royalty away were set by our fine Orthodox friends, the terrorist French First Republic, and the lovely Bolsheviks.

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It is not the task of Christianity to provide easy answers to every question, but to make us progressively aware of a mystery. God is not so much the object of our knowledge as the cause of our wonder.-Metropolitan Kallistos Ware

The land of my ancestors used to have a monarchy, but the allies pressured us to get ride of it after the last war? I wish that they'd bring it back soon so that Italy can have some stability and reverence returned to her civic life as before (Although, to be fair that monarchy was composed of a lot of anti clericalism and Freemasons so it wasn't a "true" Christian monarchy in the strict sense as was Spains or Russia's).

I actually met Princess Silvia when I was quite young.

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As a result of a thousand million years of evolution, the universe is becoming conscious of itself, able to understand something of its past history and its possible future.-- Sir Julian Sorell Huxley FRS

The only thing I dislike about the Royal Family's money, is how much of their past money was acquired through outright theft (not just taxes, but literally deciding one day that person x's estate now belongs to the King). However, I would - in all likelihood anyways - not today be living in Arizona had the US government not invaded Mexico and decided to take Arizona for its own. In fact, I would not likely be what is today America had the English and others not decided to take over large portions of land that belonged to someone else. The fact of the matter is that these thefts happened a long time ago, and it would be damn near impossible to return the property to the person who is the closest living heir to people who died hundreds of years ago. As such, I say we move on from the past and return to today.

As to the Royal Family spending state money on their wedding (and I am not entirely certain that they did so), the Royal Family owns a massive amount of property and other investments which presently the British government take the income from, in exchange for a set amount of money (and possibly some allowances of various sorts, I can't recall exactly) to be paid to the Royal Family. Because of the amount the British take in from the Family's estate, the British actually make money every year off the deal. I suppose in a way, this is actually the closest one can come to returning the property that the Queen's distant ancestors outright took from others, seeing as how many of their descendants would today be paying somewhat higher taxes (or Britain's government would be ever closer to bankruptcy) if not for this deal.

I was surprised to see so many supporters of monarchy on this site. You can add my name to that list (the best government is either one where there is a monarch - who has actual power - or no government at all).

First of all, why do you care? Would you like me to launch into a diatribe about the foibles of US Presidents and ask how you can support such a system?

Do you feel the same way about the despotic monarchs of some Middle Eastern nations? What about the republican presidents of China, North Korea, and elsewhere? Do they receive your admiration or your spite?

If it's just that you aren't interested in the media attention given to them, leave it alone. Listen to the current antics of Charlie Sheen and that ilk instead.

Finally and most importantly, if you have such spite, shouldn't you be praying about that and seeking some spiritual guidance?

Yes you are correct, I do not like the leaders of China or North Korea.

I do not like the Monarchies and elite of this world. They hurt their nations through centuries and flaunt it in our faces. They even own banking cartels and print currencies today which regulate our payment for work (money value). They are criminals in my opinion.

Finally, no, I don't think I should pray for guidance of my dislike for tyrants. I didn't see Yeshua kissing up to Pilate.

Our government here in America is our servants, (public servants), hence, Romans 13 doesn't apply as that is for "authorities".

I am not going to answer these absurd statements that are frankly erroneous. What is absolutely clear about most Western monarchies is that they are rooted in Judeo-Christian values. Kingship in every European monarchy acknowledges the Kingship of Jesus Christ. Look at the Coronation of the Queen. The symbolism and the actual wording of the rite makes it very clear that Her Majesty is foremost a servant or perhaps better, handmaid of the Lord. Her authority is from God. She is annointed with chrism, receives Holy Communion (yes Anglican I know - she should be Orthodox) but it is entirely different to the self-seeking secular republicans, whose values for the main are rooted in atheism and if they are Christian have a huge stumbling block - the fact that Christian monarchy is the preferred system of government for a Christian country.

The restoration of Orthodox monarchy to Serbia, Rumania, Russia and Bulgaria for starters would be an enormous attack on the Evil One, and would support the mission of the Church in so many ways.

To the Russians abroad it has been granted to shine in the whole world the light of Orthodoxy, so that other peoples, seeing their good deeds, might glorify our Father in Heaven, and thus obtain salvationS John of Shanghai & San Francisco

I was surprised to see so many supporters of monarchy on this site. You can add my name to that list (the best government is either one where there is a monarch - who has actual power - or no government at all).

Wow, that sounds like my political thoughts!

I have to be a closet monarchist, because that kind of stuff gets you laughed out the door at academia...so I identify as a center-right libertarian (kinda).

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She's touring the facility/and picking up slack.--"For in much wisdom is much grief, and he who increases knowledge increases sorrow." Ecclesiastes 1:18--I once believed in causes too, I had my pointless point of view --Life went on no matter who was wrong or right

The Hanovarians didn't steal so much as they accepted an offer of the monarchy from Parlaiment... And they wouldn't have been in a position to take the throne if Parlaiment hadn't handed it to a Dutch interloper in the first place.

England's monarchy is what it is today because of the elected representative government, which decided not to endorse the republican sentiments that were gaining traction during Victorian times.

I would actually like to see a monarch get uppity and point out that they don't actually have a written constitution. Or better yet, I would like to see a Jacobite prince take back the throne. If there's anyone who has a right to feel spite, it's the Stuarts.

(Is this too political?)

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Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

THE OPINIONS HERE MAY NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED ORTHODOX CHURCH

It's just silly money, if you really think of it. Sure, that money could help a lot of people if it were distributed to the poor, for example. But no matter how wasteful a government is, there are some things they can't take away and those are the important ones [End of optimistic/cliche message]

I would actually like to see a monarch get uppity and point out that they don't actually have a written constitution.

I have often wondered about this. This is a major plot point in the insightful and important film Johnny English. Reportedly the British monarch has more power than almost any other head of state in the world, they simply don't use the powers anymore.

Since the military and government officials are sworn to the monarch personally, the British Monarch still has theoretical total power. Logically, they could theoretically do away with it all in reinstate absolute monarchy, or at least do away with much of the "constitution".

The monarch would be violating their coronation oath (to govern according to the nation's respective laws and customs), of which there is precedent of how to deal with them: Charles I.

« Last Edit: April 30, 2011, 12:29:56 PM by Entscheidungsproblem »

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As a result of a thousand million years of evolution, the universe is becoming conscious of itself, able to understand something of its past history and its possible future.-- Sir Julian Sorell Huxley FRS

First of all, why do you care? Would you like me to launch into a diatribe about the foibles of US Presidents and ask how you can support such a system?

Do you feel the same way about the despotic monarchs of some Middle Eastern nations? What about the republican presidents of China, North Korea, and elsewhere? Do they receive your admiration or your spite?

If it's just that you aren't interested in the media attention given to them, leave it alone. Listen to the current antics of Charlie Sheen and that ilk instead.

Finally and most importantly, if you have such spite, shouldn't you be praying about that and seeking some spiritual guidance?

Yes you are correct, I do not like the leaders of China or North Korea.

I do not like the Monarchies and elite of this world. They hurt their nations through centuries and flaunt it in our faces. They even own banking cartels and print currencies today which regulate our payment for work (money value). They are criminals in my opinion.

Finally, no, I don't think I should pray for guidance of my dislike for tyrants. I didn't see Yeshua kissing up to Pilate.

Our government here in America is our servants, (public servants), hence, Romans 13 doesn't apply as that is for "authorities".

I am not going to answer these absurd statements that are frankly erroneous. What is absolutely clear about most Western monarchies is that they are rooted in Judeo-Christian values. Kingship in every European monarchy acknowledges the Kingship of Jesus Christ. Look at the Coronation of the Queen. The symbolism and the actual wording of the rite makes it very clear that Her Majesty is foremost a servant or perhaps better, handmaid of the Lord. Her authority is from God. She is annointed with chrism, receives Holy Communion (yes Anglican I know - she should be Orthodox) but it is entirely different to the self-seeking secular republicans, whose values for the main are rooted in atheism and if they are Christian have a huge stumbling block - the fact that Christian monarchy is the preferred system of government for a Christian country.

The restoration of Orthodox monarchy to Serbia, Rumania, Russia and Bulgaria for starters would be an enormous attack on the Evil One, and would support the mission of the Church in so many ways.

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I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

The monarch would be violating their coronation oath (to govern according to the nation's respective laws and customs), of which there is precedent of how to deal with them: Charles I.

That didn't work out, and the Brits haven't been foolish enough to try a republic since then.

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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.A hasty quarrel kindles fire,and urgent strife sheds blood.If you blow on a spark, it will glow;if you spit on it, it will be put out; and both come out of your mouth

All of their money from the past came off the hard working backs of the working man. Their current investments came from that money. They own so much of BP, Canada, and many other parts of the world (including much of the banking sector).

Then they go on TV and everybody's heart is throbbing because it's a princess/prince story.

LOL, it eeks my stomach out. They are only flaunting money that they forced others to pay them at one time. It's like a royal "food stamp" wedding, but they have fleeced the common man for his money & for food.

They feel like they are "entitled" because they give themselves "titles".

Do you have any spite of what they have done?

No, envy is a deadly sin and leads nowhere.

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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.A hasty quarrel kindles fire,and urgent strife sheds blood.If you blow on a spark, it will glow;if you spit on it, it will be put out; and both come out of your mouth