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Author
Topic: hypothetical situation (Read 3979 times)

tendai

hypothetical situation. u're poz and u're on a date. u've known each other for a few weeks, u havent disclosed yet. things turn physical really fast and then your date decides to have unprotected sex with you WITHOUT your consent. you tell him "no no no no dont, its not safe" but dont tell 'hey stop i have hiv" as such. i mean there was no discussion on whether sex was on the agenda for that day or anything like that he just decides he wants to do it and goes right ahead. so can you be blamed or feel responsible if this person ends up getting infected?

Unless it is rape you are talking about here and YOU decide to have unprotected sex with this person, then yes, you are as responsible as your partner. You don't have to reveal your status to insist on safe sex.

Because you can say no to sex (without disclosing your status), then yes, I would say you do have some responsibility. The description is a bit unclear, because it comes across as if you were forced to have sex (i.e., raped). While someone can demand sex, unless you are raped, you still have ultimate responsibility for saying no to sex, if you aren't comfortable or its unwanted.

Hypothetically speaking, I would never put my self in that kind of situation. On the other hand, if someone were twisted enough to rape me then responsibility for them contracting the virus through a disgusting act of violence would be the least of my concerns.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

No means no means no. No one needs to justify why they do not want to have sex. No one has the right to take away the control of making this decision, whether they are long term partner, date, or complete stranger

Sometimes when things are happening very quickly, against our will, it can be very difficult to think clearly. Everything can seem rather unreal - a sort of self defence mechanism that kicks in when the mind feels overwhelmed. I seriously doubt that disclosing hiv status would be top of most people's minds in this kind of situation.

I wonder if this person has someone she can talk to face to face about this - how it has left her feeling, & what, if anything, she may want to do about this..?

I'm not sure where these two people are in the world, as to whether PEP may be available? This would need to be started within 72 hours, but preferably much earlier, to have the best chance of being effective for him. This is of course assuming that he is HIV negative in the first place.

If hypothetical woman was not on some other form of contraceptive, like the pill, she may also want to talk to a dr/pharmacist about emergency contraception. This would again need to be taken with 72 hours, but preferably earlier, to be effective (emergency IUD's can be fitted within 5 days if available/appropriate)

When I was still in my early 20s I brought home a strapping specimen after far too much beer had been consumed. The usual qualifying conversation regarding practices and dislikes hadn't been made, and it wasn't until we were rolling around on my bed that it became apparent that he wanted to top me (a big no-no) and would not take my refusal seriously.

Being larger and much heavier than me he pinned me down at penetrated me dry. Although my cloudy memory insists that it was just a few thrusts before I wiggled free, I can't really be certain how long this actually went on before I wiggled free and kicked him out, threatening to call the police. He left abruptly before any further trouble ensued. I was torn and bleeding pretty heavily.

Because I came down with a terrific two-week cold shortly thereafter, I've always wondered if this incident marked my seroconverstion. But by then I'd been sexually active for five years and had already bedded well-over a hundred guys, never with protection. Condoms weren't a standard practice until a year or so after this incident. And this happened in the dead of a Boston winter, when my various bad habits and crummy nutrition guaranteed at least a few bad colds each season, so getting sick wasn't at all unusual.

It should also be said that by 1990, seven years later, very few of my old hook-ups were even still alive. Drugs got the few AIDS had missed. I saw the guy who wouldn't say no in 1988 in a bar and he looked dreadful, but by then so did so many others. I personally never saw this as date-rape, just a trick gone wrong. The main lesson i learned was to properly qualify potential tricks before we left the bar.Many years on, when I was finally tested and came back poz, it made disclosure easier for me, as it was just another qualifier.

So I am stranger to the "hypothetical" scenario posted above. Given my previous history, It's as likely that I'd infected him as he'd infected me. I certainly never have EVER felt guilty about such a possibility, given the circumstances.

Adding a wooden nickel to this discussion-

Brent(Who lived a reckless youth)

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Blessed with brains, talent and gorgeous tits.

The revolutionary smart set reads The Spin Cycle at least once every day.

I agree with Ann that the possibility of even more violence is possible in a situation like this. This is a very tough situation, and the only guilt I would feel would be if I transmitted the virus to others through him. Rape is a brutal, ugly, thing, and I would not feel sorry for the rapist. But would I want to get the shit kicked out of me and possibly killed? Again, a tough proposition. It is so scary, how people can react with disclosure. I once had a guy who said I was trying to infect him, when I never, ever put him at risk. All it takes is for some nut, to go haywire to really turn your world upside down.

First, I am very sorry this happened. Unfortunately I think this is more common in the gay community than anyone will ever admit. Secondly, if he was neg, I am sure screaming I am poz would end it ASAP.

As a side note, and maybe I am a sicko for thinking this but I often think if I am ever mugged or anything all I have to do is scream "I HAVE AIDS hope you do not catch it" ..... and they will run away scared and leave me alone ..... I guess I am weird, but hell, there has to be a silver lining to this blasted disease somewhere!

With all the frivolous lawsuits. I wonder if a rapist could file suit if he/she contracted HIV. Here if you let a hunter hunt on your property and they get hurt they can and do sue the owner. Really it's their insurance company that brings the suit.

I will just say that I was date raped on my birthday of all days...When I went to file charges, the police wouldn't do anything about it. I took a lie detector test and the guy did too, we both passed and the police dropped it..I am really disturbed by people who think they were raped, to me it is something you should know...Was it against your will? Then it is rape...But karma is a bitch. Dude became a crackhead and was told he died at a bus stop...Do I feel remorse....Hell motherfuckin no.....

I will just say that I was date raped on my birthday of all days...When I went to file charges, the police wouldn't do anything about it. I took a lie detector test and the guy did too, we both passed and the police dropped it..I am really disturbed by people who think they were raped, to me it is something you should know...Was it against your will? Then it is rape...But karma is a bitch. Dude became a crackhead and was told he died at a bus stop...Do I feel remorse....Hell motherfuckin no.....

That's one of the big issues with date rape - the guy probably passed his lie detector because he felt he did nothing wrong. Too many guys seem to have a sense of entitlement - as in "I've taken you out on a date, spent money, now you owe me a shag". They seem to think if the woman dare say "NO" to his sexual advances, then the woman is not keeping her side of the bargain.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

I would just say, YES, you are responsible if something like that happens. I know in some cases for women is hard to defend in such situations but if it is a male2male situation... one can and HAVE TO stop it.

I have been requested unprotected sex several times after diagnosed by people i picked up somewhere... even one of them said he wanted to have unprotected sex and drink my cum as he used to do with his bf's (sorry for giving too much info) ... i excused myself saying i didn't know his status or his health condition... If anytime someone tries to force me i am really ready to go boxing.... pity i have to do it not to protect myself but to protect him... sometimes one has to save lives the hard way .

tendai

thanks a lot for your input guys. Personally i think he deserves whatever he's going to get because a person cant go around forcing himself on people like that, regardless of HIV status. no means no and if he decides to disregard peoples wishes then thats his problem. besides he's of unknown status and could have been deliberately trying to infect you or something.

I have also been asked to have unprotected sex even after tell the guy I was poz. I of course said no because I dont want to get something else, this is enough. I always disclose soon after the dicussion even starts leading in that direction. My bf is neg and after we started getting back together this was the very first thing I advised him of. I still havent figured out why anyone would want to bareback knowing the other person is poz and they say they arent. Takes all kinds I guess.

I avoid hypothetical situations like these altogether by always disclosing before a date even occurs. I don't need to be going on dates with people who are going to have issues with hiv. I can handle rejection from someone I don't know. I'd rather not feel like I have a big secret as I get to know someone.

And as far as the situation you described... well in the gay world at least, one would be an idiot to assume that sex isn't on the agenda. For that matter... whenever you're dealing with a male, rest assured sex is on the agenda.

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I would just say, YES, you are responsible if something like that happens. I know in some cases for women is hard to defend in such situations but if it is a male2male situation... one can and HAVE TO stop it.

This is a very naive position to take. Just because it is a male/male situation does not mean that the unwilling partner has the ability to stop it. Male on male rape happens all the time -- I know, because it happened to me years ago, in college. We were only supposed to be having oral sex -- he decided that he wanted my ass -- I said, NO -- he pinned me down and took it anyway. Fortunately, I got away from the encounter with no physical scars and, thankfully, no STD's -- of course, it turned me off from bottoming for about 20 yrs.So, by saying "one can and HAVE TO stop it", makes it sound like you think either I wasn't raped or that I "asked for it". I don't think that is your intent -- but it IS the message I read from your position.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts