re: How much money is enough? Is there any guidance: Employer vs employee (Posted on 1/31/13 at 4:15 pm to Iona Fan Man)

quote:I am looking at how much the company makes in profits and compare that to how much it would cost to provide insurance and it has me questioning a few things:

near 400k in profit, with 12 employees.

Is that "not enough" to provide insurance?

I recently left a small company (less than 30 employees) and the group insurance cost over $500/mo a person. So at a company like that, with 12 employees, you're looking at nearly 1/4th of the profits eliminated immediately with healthcare costs.

re: How much money is enough? Is there any guidance: Employer vs employee (Posted on 1/31/13 at 4:25 pm to Iona Fan Man)

what are they classifying as profit? net profit after all expenses (including overhead, taxes, insuances ect.)

as far as insurance, with only 12 employees the company would not have to circumvent anything. need 50 + fulltime employees to require insurance through the company.

Also, since when did it become a moral obligation of a company to provide health insurance? Why not auto insurance or homeowners insurance? Should a company provide its employees with a cell phone or car? where does it stop? if the employer increased the employees pay by enough so they could pay for health insurance, would they go out and buy insurance or not?

re: How much money is enough? Is there any guidance: Employer vs employee (Posted on 1/31/13 at 4:28 pm to Iona Fan Man)

Would it be "fair" if said company decreased the persons salary $10k to provide $10k in insurance? Likewise would it be fair for the company to increase a persons salary by $10k and eliminate insurance?

re: How much money is enough? Is there any guidance: Employer vs employee (Posted on 1/31/13 at 5:24 pm to Iona Fan Man)

What employees receive in compensation and benefits is determined by what is typical in the market for people with comparable skill sets. If a business owner can legally get around Obamacare and pay no insurance benefits while retaining the employees needed there is no problem.

re: How much money is enough? Is there any guidance: Employer vs employee (Posted on 1/31/13 at 5:28 pm to Iona Fan Man)

quote:that money he considers his, really isn't.

I really love this part . . . soon enough no money is "his" anymore. It's all ours! Amirite?

$400k may not be much cushion for a business cycle. I don't know. I just have a problem with assuming a company, a person, or any entity should be dictated what is fair by government or any other outside entity.

re: How much money is enough? Is there any guidance: Employer vs employee (Posted on 1/31/13 at 5:37 pm to Iona Fan Man)

quote:near 400k in profit, with 12 employees

That isn't exactly a huge cushion, especially in SF. Besides, it is not the company's responsibility to "take care of" employees, it is each employee's responsibility to look after himself. Everyone working there has the choice to go somewhere else, and those who want something better will.

FWIW, most companies that offer benefits and better conditions don't do so out of any sense of altruism. They do it b/c that's how you get good employees.

re: How much money is enough? Is there any guidance: Employer vs employee (Posted on 1/31/13 at 9:07 pm to Iona Fan Man)

quote:that money he considers his, really isn't.

Oh, really? Who is taking the risk and who is collecting paychecks with no risk involved? Guess who doesn't take a paycheck if the business goes into a tailspin? It sure as hell isn't the employees. I hate this freaking "they're rich because they own a business" mentality. We're the ones who open the doors in the morning and close them at night after everyone else is gone.

my issue is that businesses are supposed to follow the guild lines, not lie and cheat their way around them...and when they get caught there isn't a punitive penalty(jail or fines so high you wouldn't risk it)

Paying HC for the year > penalty for circumventing the law so you don't have to pay HC.

How are you supposed to compete against businesses that aren't "playing by the rules"?