I trust the legal system enough to hold up a contract signed & notarized by both parties.

There is that. How much would a goxcoin go for right now out of interest? Did you complete a contract with someone?

200/750 if the liquidation was at no cost at all.

So more like 100/750 or 150/750

I'd say about 20% is right as of today, but factor in the two years until bankruptcy courts order them to liquidate + creating procedures for claims, gox possibly selling the coins on open market to cover fiat shortfalls as well, BTC price appreciation over that time and you'll be going down into pennies on the dollar.

There's also a chance that they'll sell off ALL the BTC and return fiat to BTC holders at their last closing value. That's how they valued the liabilities in their books.

Most people don't want to settle for something like that despite the eventual outcome. I'll do a deal if it makes sense on the probabilities but nothing as of yet.

I trust the legal system enough to hold up a contract signed & notarized by both parties.

There is that. How much would a goxcoin go for right now out of interest? Did you complete a contract with someone?

200/750 if the liquidation was at no cost at all.

So more like 100/750 or 150/750

I'd say about 20% is right as of today, but factor in the two years until bankruptcy courts order them to liquidate + creating procedures for claims, gox possibly selling the coins on open market to cover fiat shortfalls as well, BTC price appreciation over that time and you'll be going down into pennies on the dollar.

There's also a chance that they'll sell off ALL the BTC and return fiat to BTC holders at their last closing value. That's how they valued the liabilities in their books.

Most people don't want to settle for something like that despite the eventual outcome. I'll do a deal if it makes sense on the probabilities but nothing as of yet.

Actually MTgox has not filed for bankrupcty so they might still make a deal with its customers. Meaning that they don't go through a long and pricey liquidation. But then again i don't know much about japanese bankrupcty law !

There is also the issue of MK Bitcoins on Gox. since he had allegedly held his own bitcoins there you can count those 120k out of your equation since customers come first. So it's 750k-120k = 630k 200k/630k + Debts in Fiat. There is also the issue of claiming your share in the insolvency proceedings, and recent deposits will most certainly get larger shares back than people who had their coins there for years.

Who wants to be a billionaire? Me! You could help 1Dvja1RFCqxdnYRgjTntwGvdCeUisU4xp

There is also the issue of MK Bitcoins on Gox. since he had allegedly held his own bitcoins there you can count those 120k out of your equation since customers come first. So it's 750k-120k = 630k 200k/630k + Debts in Fiat. There is also the issue of claiming your share in the insolvency proceedings, and recent deposits will most certainly get larger shares back than people who had their coins there for years.

750k is without gox coins. Sadly, their 100k coins brings the total to 850k coins :O

There is also the issue of MK Bitcoins on Gox. since he had allegedly held his own bitcoins there you can count those 120k out of your equation since customers come first. So it's 750k-120k = 630k 200k/630k + Debts in Fiat. There is also the issue of claiming your share in the insolvency proceedings, and recent deposits will most certainly get larger shares back than people who had their coins there for years.

lmao, another 3+ year case to show that MK is personally liable and should pay out of pocket to creditors.

There is also the issue of MK Bitcoins on Gox. since he had allegedly held his own bitcoins there you can count those 120k out of your equation since customers come first. So it's 750k-120k = 630k 200k/630k + Debts in Fiat. There is also the issue of claiming your share in the insolvency proceedings, and recent deposits will most certainly get larger shares back than people who had their coins there for years.

lmao, another 3+ year case to show that MK is personally liable and should pay out of pocket to creditors.

that won't happen i fear. It is very rare that owners are liable for a bankruptcy. it is sad!

No, actually it's pretty much reasonable to assume that his personal assets will be paid out last if they were held on Gox. Since he is the CEO of Gox his own assets held on Gox do NOT flow into the creditor mass. It's pretty easy to explain actually: The failure to stop trade on the day of the discovery does make him personally liable. And there is also the issue of him being the debtor, and being creditor and debtor at the same time for the same insolvency is regulated in the same way as in most other countries: ALl the other creditors come first.

Who wants to be a billionaire? Me! You could help 1Dvja1RFCqxdnYRgjTntwGvdCeUisU4xp

No, actually it's pretty much reasonable to assume that his personal assets will be paid out last if they were held on Gox. Since he is the CEO of Gox his own assets held on Gox do NOT flow into the creditor mass. It's pretty easy to explain actually: The failure to stop trade on the day of the discovery does make him personally liable. And there is also the issue of him being the debtor, and being creditor and debtor at the same time for the same insolvency is regulated in the same way as in most other countries: ALl the other creditors come first.

This only applies IF his personal assets were in Gox. Sure his stock in MTgox and the companies reserves are now gone, but he said some time back that he owns 100k+ BTC in his own stash NOT on the site. So there is that.

No, actually it's pretty much reasonable to assume that his personal assets will be paid out last if they were held on Gox. Since he is the CEO of Gox his own assets held on Gox do NOT flow into the creditor mass. It's pretty easy to explain actually: The failure to stop trade on the day of the discovery does make him personally liable. And there is also the issue of him being the debtor, and being creditor and debtor at the same time for the same insolvency is regulated in the same way as in most other countries: ALl the other creditors come first.

Any BTC he had on the site would be held and paid out on equal footing with the other creditors. Karpeles is not the debtor, its MtGox Co, Ltd., which is owned by Tibanne Co, Ltd., which Karpeles has whatever % ownership in.

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It's pretty easy to explain actually: The failure to stop trade on the day of the discovery does make him personally liable.

Unfortunately, whether or not it makes sense won't simplify the extended lawsuit and appeal that'll come from proving it.

lmao, another 3+ year case to show that MK is personally liable and should pay out of pocket to creditors.

that won't happen i fear. It is very rare that owners are liable for a bankruptcy. it is sad!

This is true generally speaking, but I guess it very well may depend on proper case argumentation by lawyers representing debtors. At no point should they agree, to ANY extend, about tech team and MK in particular not being liable for losses. As known to most "practicing in the field", such losses WERE preventable, with very minimum security precautions, which apparently haven't been taken, yet advised.

lmao, another 3+ year case to show that MK is personally liable and should pay out of pocket to creditors.

that won't happen i fear. It is very rare that owners are liable for a bankruptcy. it is sad!

This is true generally speaking, but I guess it very well may depend on proper case argumentation by lawyers representing debtors. At no point should they agree, to ANY extend, about tech team and MK in particular not being liable for losses. As known to most "practicing in the field", such losses WERE preventable, with very minimum security precautions, which apparently haven't been taken, yet advised.

At no point where I doubting that. But it is very hard to convince a judge/jury of that. Breaking the limited liability is very rare in most states.As someone with money "stuck" on mtgox, i hope that sucker pays every single cent he owns!!!!

lmao, another 3+ year case to show that MK is personally liable and should pay out of pocket to creditors.

that won't happen i fear. It is very rare that owners are liable for a bankruptcy. it is sad!

This is true generally speaking, but I guess it very well may depend on proper case argumentation by lawyers representing debtors. At no point should they agree, to ANY extend, about tech team and MK in particular not being liable for losses. As known to most "practicing in the field", such losses WERE preventable, with very minimum security precautions, which apparently haven't been taken, yet advised.

At no point where I doubting that. But it is very hard to convince a judge/jury of that. Breaking the limited liability is very rare in most states.As someone with money "stuck" on mtgox, i hope that sucker pays every single cent he owns!!!!