Two things about this curve. Most of graphs, statistics about the economy we see are all cooked up figures.

1. Do you remember how there were big graphs about booming US economy in 2007-2008? Then suddenly few months later, the Mega banks and fiancial institutions came begging on its knees to US congress to give Trillions of bailout money. Obviously, the earlier figures of booming economy and stock market were all fraudulent.

America is the biggest spender on National defense.

2. How much of the US production in this curve is of Military and defense systems? Because building up Missiles and Machine guns simple does no good to American citizens. Its a wastage of money.

Two things about this curve. Most of graphs, statistics about the economy we see are all cooked up figures.

1. Do you remember how there were big graphs about booming US economy in 2007-2008? Then suddenly few months later, the Mega banks and fiancial institutions came begging on its knees to US congress to give Trillions of bailout money. Obviously, the earlier figures of booming economy and stock market were all fraudulent.

America is the biggest spender on National defense.

2. How much of the US production in this curve is of Military and defense systems? Because building up Missiles and Machine guns simple does no good to American citizens. Its a wastage of money.

You are communicating to others on a message board made possible by US military spending. You are able to fly because of defense spending. You're able to use cool mapping features on the internet because of US defense spending (satellite, GPS). Bottomline, your quality of life would be less if it weren't for defense spending. That isn't saying that all of it adds to quality of life, but commercial spinouts from defense procurement and RDTE is very productive.

As to how much it contributes to the US manufacturing output, between procurement and RDTE, you're looking at less than 10% over the past decade, and less prior to that.

Bottomline, the US is still the leading manufacturer without defense spending.

"So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

You are communicating to others on a message board made possible by US military spending. You are able to fly because of defense spending. You're able to use cool mapping features on the internet because of US defense spending (satellite, GPS). Bottomline, your quality of life would be less if it weren't for defense spending.

So you are relating things indirectly to Military infrastructure to somehow show that Military spending is reason behind development of human society.

I will not go into detail of argument of the stuff you have mentioned right now. I will pick these points at a later time. As this thread is completely different.

Originally Posted by Shek

Commercial spinouts from defense procurement and RDTE is very productive.

Yeah, i know they are very productive. Thats why trillions of dollars (25% of your Pentagon budget) cannot be accounted for. I have created the topic about that.

Originally Posted by Shek

As to how much it contributes to the US manufacturing output, between procurement and RDTE, you're looking at less than 10% over the past decade, and less prior to that.

Bottomline, the US is still the leading manufacturer without defense spending.

I am not disputing the fact about US production figures. I have to do some research about it before making any specific conclusion.

That may be so, but would I be right in guessing that U.S manufacturing is limited to low-labour high-mechanized factories, employing less people than say, labour intensive factories in China, and having less net economic impact ? Due to the fact that less people are employed, there is less injection of capital back into the economy.

In addition, how much of U.S manufacturing is Chinese owned/financed ?

That may be so, but would I be right in guessing that U.S manufacturing is limited to low-labour high-mechanized factories, employing less people than say, labour intensive factories in China, and having less net economic impact ? Due to the fact that less people are employed, there is less injection of capital back into the economy.

In addition, how much of U.S manufacturing is Chinese owned/financed ?

Lonekommie,

Your argument is akin to saying that since the share of farmers has fallen from 50% to 3% in the United States over the past century, then clearly that must have less net economic impact, because that fall has occurred because of the invention of low-labor, high mechanization. However, the US moved from an agrarian society to an industrial one, and now its moved from an industrial one to a service-based one, where American ingenuity and intellect is earning the $$ more and more as opposed to American muscle.

As an example, an iPod is assembled in China using Korean and Taiwanese parts. Who sees the biggest share of money from the iPod? Apple in the US, whose revenue stream from the iPod is approximately 25% of the price of the iPod, and yet, doesn't do anything in the manufacturing chain of one.

Bottomline, the industrial sector of the US has declined as an employer of labor, freeing up labor to pursue other American comparative advantage jobs to grow and expand the US economy.

As far as how much US manufacturing is Chinese owned/financed, I don't know the stats, but knowing the general trend of FDI flows, it would be very small, both in terms of Chinese FDI into the US and and in terms relative to US ownership/financing of Chinese manufacturing.

"So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

So you are relating things indirectly to Military infrastructure to somehow show that Military spending is reason behind development of human society.

I will not go into detail of argument of the stuff you have mentioned right now. I will pick these points at a later time. As this thread is completely different.

My point is that some military spending has been extremely productive for society at large. India and China wouldn't have grown nearly as much in the past two decades had it not been for a little ARPA project. This is not to say that we should push even more money to military spending, as the government on average doesn't do as well as the private sector in sniffing out economic winners, but there are some projects/efforts that the private sector wouldn't undertake on its own, for example, developing a decentralized command and control system with redundancies to withstand a nuclear attack.

"So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

So you are relating things indirectly to Military infrastructure to somehow show that Military spending is reason behind development of human society.

I will not go into detail of argument of the stuff you have mentioned right now. I will pick these points at a later time. As this thread is completely different.

Kevin: most modern technology is derived from R&D for military applications. Microwave, internet, computers, airplanes, jetliners, radar, infrared, lasers, virtually everything. Military R&D is not a waste of money, because it works its way back into the civilian economy. Hugely beneficial unintended consequences.