I see people using raider io to gatekeep but 1) score can be bought, just like gear. 2) a person can grind rating but it doesn't guarantee they are going to perform well. 3) you still get people, regardless of io, who pull mediocre dps, die to avoidable stuff, or leave over practically nothing.

No one is saying it guarantees anything. But given a choice of a bunch of shit options (ilvl, linking an achievement, raider.io) you choose the by far best option - raider io. Whats more likely, that someone got lucky with titan forges and got a high ilvl, or that they shelled out millions of gold to buy 15s in every single dungeon?

Originally Posted by Evelyn

Yes, the add-on comes in handy and it may help filter out what some consider "bads", but it doesn't guarantee good and professional people. It's an indicator of skill but it isn't the end all be all and not everyone bothers to actually check the site, they just go by the tooltip and it can be misleading.

Again this is just a non-argument. This is comparable to saying we shouldn't have background checks on buying guns, because some people intending to commit crimes with a gun will have already gotten away with it, or are planning to do it in the future. So because a tiny minority we shouldn't do something that benefits the majority?

Originally Posted by Evelyn

I think we can all agree it ought to show more - like a persons experience in that particular dungeon. Not just the highest they have done not timed.

You can. You can check if they were being boosted, if they did it on a joke week, if they were actually healing and not just afking as DPS, etc.

Here is streamer Nagura's drop down for TolDagor.

Clicking the first one, we can see she did it with that brutal affix combo of last week, and did it with a pretty good comp all around the same skill level. So no boosting going on here.

Here on the other hand is an 11 SOTS i did awhile back. I joined a group that was titled "your key any dungeon" and linked it. I'm the 500 io ret with dogshit gear. I think the blood DK was learning tank routes. He was in a group with the 2200 rogue. We absolutely crushed it and 2 chested it, despite having me doing pitiful DPS and the other guy, a mage, doing wank DPS.

I've pushed my own key's from 12 to 14 and 13 to 14 and at least half a dozen times I form a group for a 14 and vet people and have never completed a 14 in time of my own key because people are always leaving over the slightest things, even when there is no wipe

Running someone else's key isn't going to change that. Running your own key is the best way to get groups and the best way to raise score. If you're putting together groups that are always failing, then you need to download raider.io and be more selective who you invite.

I've pushed my own key's from 12 to 14 and 13 to 14 and at least half a dozen times I form a group for a 14 and vet people and have never completed a 14 in time of my own key because people are always leaving over the slightest things, even when there is no wipe, as I mentioned in my initial post and I should add that I advertise my groups as chill groups and have had people leave on groups advertised as "for completion" even. I explained that I've invited "better people" as I've been advised to do in order to complete in time and these people see even more likely to leave over the slightest thing. I mean just last night I was hoping to double chest a 13 and invited a balance druid who checked out and he couldn't even break 19k dps. In the group I ran after (also with my own key and with people that checked out in io/previous dungeon runs/item level) 2 of them were failing to mechanics and one left after they died on a boss.

What progression is that? Doing every dungeon on 14 in time to be able to be invited into a group for a 15? Don't be absurd. Even doing a particular dungeon on 14 isn't proving to help me get into a group for a 15 of the same dungeon.

Where did I say I didn't want to push my own key? I simply explained my experience with pushing keys. These things aren't mutually exclusive. You can push keys AND join other groups. There is nothing wrong with doing both.

You mad bro. Get gud. This is how your reply came across. I'm scapgoating raider io for my failures? Because even the things out of my control, are my fault? I think anyone who has these type of negative experience with raider io and the community, has a right to be frustrated and who am I to say otherwise. Who are you to say otherwise?

See my previous reply on that topic.

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Seriously? The hardships of finding groups and pushing keys while pugging mythic+. Did you mean to quote someone else? My item level is 413. It's right there in my initial post along with examples of said hardships. Just because you don't experience them doesn't mean they don't exist for others. Let me guess. If someone is experiencing a hard time, it's their fault and they just need to not be bad. It has nothing to do with the add-on or elitism and toxicity, right? Reminds me of conservative libertarians. If people are so poor, then they need to stop being lazy and get a job!

There is zero hardship in finding groups if you push your own key. It's very easy to fill groups now whether you will get competent people is a different matter but I would thinking running a completion run is still better than sitting in org/sw and futilely applying to groups.

No one is saying it guarantees anything. But given a choice of a bunch of shit options (ilvl, linking an achievement, raider.io) you choose the by far best option - raider io. Whats more likely, that someone got lucky with titan forges and got a high ilvl, or that they shelled out millions of gold to buy 15s in every single dungeon?

I never said raider io isn't the best option currently. Only that it can be improved.

Originally Posted by Sliske

Again this is just a non-argument. This is comparable to saying we shouldn't have background checks on buying guns, because some people intending to commit crimes with a gun will have already gotten away with it, or are planning to do it in the future. So because a tiny minority we shouldn't do something that benefits the majority?

It would be more like wanting to buy a gun and being given a basic background check rather than an extensive background check.

Originally Posted by Sliske

You can. You can check if they were being boosted, if they did it on a joke week, if they were actually healing and not just afking as DPS, etc.

It's not in the tooltip/when you scroll over someone. Which is what I was referring to. See below.

"It's an indicator of skill but it isn't the end all be all and not everyone bothers to actually check the site, they just go by the tooltip and it can be misleading. I think we can all agree it ought to show more - like a persons experience in that particular dungeon. Not just the highest they have done not timed."

Originally Posted by ydraw

If you're putting together groups that are always failing, then you need to download raider.io and be more selective who you invite.

Not trying to be rude here, but are you even reading my posts? I use raider io and I have been selective of who I invite. I've still encountered the same issues. I've invited higher io people than myself, 1500, 1700 and some over 2k and I've had the same issues with these people. Maybe they are less likely to be bad, but they also seem more likely to leave over a single wipe, even if advertised as a chill group.

Originally Posted by Xath

There is zero hardship in finding groups if you push your own key. It's very easy to fill groups now whether you will get competent people is a different matter but I would thinking running a completion run is still better than sitting in org/sw and futilely applying to groups.

I never said there was hardship in finding groups with your own key, but that it can be tough to find good players who won't ditch over a single wipe.

I never said there was hardship in finding groups with your own key, but that it can be tough to find good players who won't ditch over a single wipe.

1. Invite players with .io good enough to clear the dungeon.
2. Make those players get in voice chat if it's a 14 or higher.

It's pretty easy to weed out the people who don't give a shit this way. A lot of people will just straight up drop group if you ask them to join discord, it's a good way to tell if they actually care at all.

You have to remember though, at this level the majority of people are only joining the run in order to raise their .io score. If they just wanted loot they could do a 10 instead. People dropping when the run is clearly not going to make the timer is just a fact of life.

All you can do is keep trying. If your run is going well, people won't leave.

Almost forgot one thing: When you do have a successful run and the people in it were good to play with, add them as a friend and ask them to join subsequent runs. This way you can build up a list of reliable, decent players to run with and minimise the amount of strangers you have to group with.

Sometimes the group I run with, needs a pug dps. So we usually set it up to where you have to whisper group lead an amazing Pokemon. Does not matter what score you have. But I can see how much it would suck not to get an invite.

Armory - R.IO - If you give a Bear a Bratwurst, He´s gonna want some brains!

Sometimes the group I run with, needs a pug dps. So we usually set it up to where you have to whisper group lead an amazing Pokemon. Does not matter what score you have. But I can see how much it would suck not to get an invite.

Btw, your group is super static AF - you could grab a person with ACTUAL down syndrome and still make timers - your core group is top level

For the rest of us scrubknights running 10s - you likely need static if you want the all 15's in time feat (I only go for the 10s in time)

Btw, your group is super static AF - you could grab a person with ACTUAL down syndrome and still make timers - your core group is top level

For the rest of us scrubknights running 10s - you likely need static if you want the all 15's in time feat (I only go for the 10s in time)

I mean, I get your point.

But lately most of the keys we do become scrub nights' , like prot pala with healing traits, +5enchants on gear, or getting stuck on some dumb stairs while shroud is on and ticks off in the middle of a shit ton of mobs!.

I think the difference for me is, we run to have a good giggle. It could of course be nice to push a key higher than what you currently have on that dungeon. Just really not the main priority and reason why we don't mind bringing others in.

Armory - R.IO - If you give a Bear a Bratwurst, He´s gonna want some brains!

But lately most of the keys we do become scrub nights' , like prot pala with healing traits, +5enchants on gear, or getting stuck on some dumb stairs while shroud is on and ticks off in the middle of a shit ton of mobs!.

I think the difference for me is, we run to have a good giggle. It could of course be nice to push a key higher than what you currently have on that dungeon. Just really not the main priority and reason why we don't mind bringing others in.

Well all of us Pug's really appreciate it haha - it's nice to have a solid group every now and then

Gearscore 2.0... and as we all know that worked out flawlessly....oh....wait...

Not to nit pic or seem like a dic but: Gearscore is how high iLVL someone has.. that's STILL in the game lol - Raider.io shows people how high of m+ people have run - which means, you need to run EACH dungeon at least once, and you need to likely 2 chest each of the dungeons (ALL) to get raider.io of 1000

Gearscore = iLVL/I can run people through heroic BoD and give them tons of gear in a single run Gearscore means NOTHING in M+ vs someone who has a high score in R.iO , Raider.io = HAS this person actually performed at a higher level

Btw, your group is super static AF - you could grab a person with ACTUAL down syndrome and still make timers - your core group is top level

For the rest of us scrubknights running 10s - you likely need static if you want the all 15's in time feat (I only go for the 10s in time)

Even all +19 or +20 in time are puggable. M+ becomes a static group content around +21 or +22 right now.
But if you trying to pug on a non-meta class, you will likely get stuck after doing all +17 or +18 in time.

Being carried in a single dungeon on an easy affix week means shit about personnal skill, yes...

People with ~1200 score expecting to complete a +15, especially this week, with a same level PUG are dellusional, period. OP experience clearly prove the point.

You've clearly missed the point or can't read.

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Originally Posted by Diliamlol

If i see that you have run multiple TD's above the +10 and have only done +2 or +3's in the other dungeons I am going to ask you for 150k gold to run with us in a +10 TD because you most likely bought a boost. Some people just buy boosts in a single dungeon to get a certain item.

Yeah that makes sense I'm sure to pay for a 10 boost when I've done a 20 in time, great logic.

Oh look the "I hAvE A jOb" Jocker .... im 9/9M and i have 2,2k io guess what i have a job too, and no i dont tell you to get 2,8k (I seriously doubt that you get over 2k Judging by your comments here ) i tell you to get near the score you want to play, for +15 a min. score of 1,4k and so on.

Not everyone who has a job has the same life experience FYI. Someone working check-out at the neighborhood grocery store is going to have a fundamentally different set of restrictions than someone who is a principal engineer at a global technology company. And guess what, both types of people play WoW.

No idea what the realities are for the person you're responding to, but your 9/9M and 2.k IO would be impossible for me unless I was just getting carried. My job does not give me that much free time unless I gave up my health and all other forms of social interaction and even this it still wouldn't be likely. I would never be able to give groups of other humans the dedicated predictable time they would deserve, whether for raids or pushing keys.

Not complaining, I do the kind of work I want to do, just pointing out how the "I have a job too" thing is meaningless.

I'm a single timed run away from 1300 io. So today I've been trying to raise my highest time dungeon and decided to start with Kings Rest. First 2 runs/groups split up mid way through. We still could have made the time in the second group but the tank left after pulling the third boss and mobs before it and then leaving group. He was pissed that someone didn't do exactly what he said when it was a weird/unnecessary call. The third run we finished but not in time. So I try an Atal'Dazar and that splits up mid way through. The tank was shit talking someone. Tried AD again and we finish but not in time. Half a minute over. Then Motherlode and we finish but not in time. Still no rating. No gear upgrades either but was mainly just there for the rating. See how fun it can be to grind rating? Hey Blizzard, this week's affix really sucks for healers. At least for holy priests.

Edit: Just did a TOS but again didn't finish in time. A minute over. I think I'm just going to take a break from the game until next week.

Edit: Just did a KR and 3 minutes over time. Tank released when I was brezzing him and we had to wait for him to run back. Rogue and Hunter died to standing in raptor strikes and released and we had to wait for them to run back. Use all my brez on dps dying to axes on 3rd boss.

Edit: So I just timed a ML 12. Previously had a 10 timed. I updated raider io and waited/refreshed... and it only gave me 1 point. I had done a 14 ML before but it wasn't timed. Reading up, I guess that explains only getting 1 point. I also read that depending on a servers pop and when you time a key, you may not get score anyways - if you don't do it towards the beginning of the week.

Last edited by Evelyn; 2019-04-21 at 01:33 AM.
Reason: so discouraging

I'm a single timed run away from 1300 io. So today I've been trying to raise my highest time dungeon and decided to start with Kings Rest. First 2 runs/groups split up mid way through. We still could have made the time in the second group but the tank left after pulling the third boss and mobs before it and then leaving group. He was pissed that someone didn't do exactly what he said when it was a weird/unnecessary call. The third run we finished but not in time. So I try an Atal'Dazar and that splits up mid way through. The tank was shit talking someone. Tried AD again and we finish but not in time. Half a minute over. Then Motherlode and we finish but not in time. Still no rating. No gear upgrades either but was mainly just there for the rating. See how fun it can be to grind rating? Hey Blizzard, this week's affix really sucks for healers. At least for holy priests.

Edit: Just did a TOS but again didn't finish in time. A minute over. I think I'm just going to take a break from the game until next week.

I am sorry to hear about your experience. That seems very frustrating and miserable. I've experienced this but never this much in one day.