Feng has a mechanic where tanks get absurd amounts of extra damage (Reversal, I believe)....obviously the reason for the logs.

I don't recall exactly what goes on in the other 2 fights as I completed them months ago in beta, but I'd imagine it's something similar. calm down.

That's the whole point! Every 2nd fight has some mechanic that makes vengeance go crazy and tanks pull absurd dps and IMO, it shouldn't take place.

@jobbly - there will always be some fights that have some mechanics which make tanks get a lot of damage. There are 3 roles for a purpose and if tanks are so "special", being a dps makes me feel like a "filler".

I mean. It's not a huge deal, really. I can understand as a DPS it being frustrating, but as you said, It's in no way indicative that your DPS are under performing, It just means that there's a "gimmicky" tank damage mechanic. If they decide to rebalance vengeance now, they're going to have to retune boss HP because they're balanced around tanks doing that much damage to them.

That said I see where you're coming from, nobody likes to see the tank "doing their job" but It's a necessary evil. The "threat creep" and all dps not having a unversal way to dump threat to stop it was a lot more frustrating on tanks (no matter what you did, toward the end of a boss fight, DPS WOULD pull aggro simply because of the amount of dps they did relative to yours.)

---------- Post added 2012-10-06 at 02:14 PM ----------

Originally Posted by AmerikanRejekt

The worst is when tanks like that end up pulling so much DPS in a fight and then bitch that the damage-dealing roles aren't high enough.

SORRY we don't have a broke-ass mechanic like Vengeance tied to our builds.

I've never seen a tank do that unless they were joking. However Let's say I'm tanking, and because of Vengeance, I'm pulling 80k. I always ignore my dps meter on the charts, I don't care. If bosses die we did our job. But if I'm looking and I see the majority of the raid DPS hovering at say..50-60k, and there's two people hovering 29-35k. I'm going to tell them to pick it up. It's not anything to do with it being relative to my DPS, but their DPS as a whole is holding the group back, and we'll fail DPS checks because of it, I highly doubt the situation you've mentioned has ever happened (at least not in a guild group). In a PUG, of course it did, because people troll the shit out of PUGs. that's the nature of playing with randoms though.

In some fights, a tank enhancing buff is needed to make them work. Alysrazor for example. And keep in mind, DPS counter are something not inherently part of the interface but an addon. They have their uses, especially in keeping yourself in check, but relying on them to much is counterproductive. It hinders movement, makes some classes skip their raid saving off heal or counterspell (at Cho'Gall for instance), go into AoE when focussed damage is needed (DS Airship battle, pre 15% nerf) and the likes. DPD counters are nice, but should not be considered relevant above understanding the encounter and working as a team.

In some fights, a tank enhancing buff is needed to make them work. Alysrazor for example. And keep in mind, DPS counter are something not inherently part of the interface but an addon. They have their uses, especially in keeping yourself in check, but relying on them to much is counterproductive. It hinders movement, makes some classes skip their raid saving off heal or counterspell (at Cho'Gall for instance), go into AoE when focussed damage is needed (DS Airship battle, pre 15% nerf) and the likes. DPD counters are nice, but should not be considered relevant above understanding the encounter and working as a team.

Yeah I understand that, but my point is, I am a dps. I am supposed to do tons of damage to the boss, be his nightmare. I am doing everything to make my numbers higher, spending dozens of hours perfecting my playstyle, using dps consumables and spending tons of gold on the best crafts, enchants, gems etc. And here comes some tank, who does nothing really special about his damage, has survivability gear/gems/enchants/consumables, doesn't have any complex rotation, doesn't have to min/max. And yet he does more damage than me. Plus he actually performs role which point of is keeping aggro and staying alive and has nothing to do with dealing big damage. It's quite frustrating and takes away fun of being a dps to be honest.

There are 3 roles for a purpose and if tanks are so "special", being a dps makes me feel like a "filler".

Except the fact that in most fights, there's only the need for 1 or 2 tanks. Bringing in additional tanks won't increase your damage.

PS: DPS _ARE_ filler players. If shit didn't have an enrage timer, you could easily get through a raid with just tanks (lesser DPS player without vengeance) and healers. There had to be a third role, and we just fall into it, but whatever, it's the most fun to play for most people

PPS: They actually could have went with a fourth role, Buffer/Support, which would have basically been the Off-Healer/Buffer/Off-Damage player, and if such a class existed in WoW, I would play it immediately. (In terms of FFXI, this would be a Red Mage or Bard)

People really will cry about anything these days lol. People didn't cry on Alysrazor, why start now? There's potentially 2 spots in a raid for Tank's and they need to be holding threat/doing their job to pull silly numbers on somewhat gimmicky encounters.

Absolutely agree it is retarded for the person already having such a unique and responsible position in the raid also easily pulling off those numbers especially on the not really gimmicky encounters. And by easily I mean easily as you don't even have to try hard to do that kind of damage.

Tank damage isn't too high. Dps damage is too low. Follow Ghostcrawler on Twitter and we can avoid threads like this one. You REALLY think Blizzard is sitting back going, "whelp, tanks are out dpsing all the dps in raids so far, but lets just see where it goes." No, come on. It's a gear scaling issue where the new Vengeance was designed to keep up with a certain dps plateau that dps in blues haven't reached yet.

Alysrazor would like a word with you about tank dps. Specific fight mechanics are still specific fight mechanics.
But if its everywhere on all fights, then that is a problem because the arguement becomes why make a dps when tanks have the same (or better dps) and the survivability of tanks.

Alysrazor would like a word with you about tank dps. Specific fight mechanics are still specific fight mechanics.
But if its everywhere on all fights, then that is a problem because the arguement becomes why make a dps when tanks have the same (or better dps) and the survivability of tanks.

No, because high tank dps relies on Vengeance even on non-gimmick fights and for Vengeance you need to be hit in the face. You can't just remove dps and play with 5 healers and 20 tanks. The only negative effect of high tank dps is hurt mage egos.

No, because high tank dps relies on Vengeance even on non-gimmick fights and for Vengeance you need to be hit in the face. You can't just remove dps and play with 5 healers and 20 tanks. The only negative effect of high tank dps is hurt mage egos.

Call it whatever you like, it just takes away the fun and makes your effort worth less.