If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

As for the sales with regards to the Green Goddess, expected sellout times and whatnot... well, we don't see the books. We don't know what's going on behind the scenes, the sales numbers, the costs (fixed and variable), upper management expectations or pressures or anything else that is going on. Maybe GG had a tiny run compared to other figures and it's deemed to be too risky to take similarly obscure characters as this point and give them figures when there are more surefire bonus character options available. Things can and do change in the business world and that can lead to different views on expectations and whatnot as well. Unfortunately this can also mean that the information we are given isn't written in stone either. Sometimes that is a positive, such as when something negative turns out to be untrue. Other times it sucks because something we wanted doesn't occur.

That is just it though it has never been qualified. We were told what a GOOD sell out time was, a figure comes in under that and its POOR? We do not need specifics, we do not need how much money they made. But you cannot expect fans to try their hardest to keep the line going when apparently from figure to figure the amount is up in the air

Business 101 at least to me says this many need to sell out to make profit, if they do not then profit is not made. Using the term "poor" denotes that she did not turn a profit or struggled, but fact is she still sold out.

And take their other lines, MOTUC sells out and the rest don't. But they are perfectly fine?? Guess we should just wait till they start pulling figures all together like they are doing with JLU to comprehend just how bad things have gotten

I think once again its just a poor choice of wording, its an inherent problem that has been going on with him or whoever is telling him what to say. Semantics can change the understanding of everything.

Owner Fantastic Plastic Toys. Authorized Integrity Toys Dealer. We ship international. We carry Monster High, Realm of the Underworld, Funko, NECA, Japanese Imports & much more! Creator of Mystical Warriors of the Ring, a 2" Animal Wrestling Minifigure line, with toys now made in China! Check us out!

Turnabout is fair play. If you don't like reading other people's thoughts, don't come to a public forum. I also wouldn't resort to name calling and then lecture about etiquette.

But again, I never once name-called or attacked a specific person or member on here, it was a general statement. And your statement about not liking other people's thoughts could apply to you as well if you think about it.

I'll agree that we just don't agree about certain things and just leave it at that.

it was nice of toyguru to give a responce it was the responce and excuse we expected though.

honestly i don't really care about certain characters, i've bought 3 characters in this line, so i'm not a hardcore collecter.

it's just the crap they throw our way. yes i don't expect mattel to basiclly bow down and kiss our backsides for every stupid fan demand, that would be monoric, but i do expect for a company who wants to build a relationship with the fans of they're product to do it without speaking to them like a spoit child.

as others have said hasbro,playmates and even mattel have had great communications with fans in the past i don't see why everytime with motu it ends up like this maybe it is us?

And so I walk, into the searing light which banishes all darkness, surrendering my face and form to atoms of dust, seeking the true darkness of peace,the cool shadows of eternity and the unknown fate of nothingness
Click to see my portfolio here
my art blog with my latest pieces here
my deviant art galleryhere
all comments, criticisms and questions are welcome in my guestbook

The controversy is from Mattel not recognizing Val and Emilliano's (or other members of He-Man.org) contributions to MOTU even though they do far more than "fan pitches" and are professionals in the comic and toy industry.

I completely understand why people are irritated with this situation. Maybe I should go back an read the entire thread because it seems like there were quite a few things that really started to bother everybody.

I mean did Goddess not sell fast enough to justify production of 2 figures a month as we suspect or did she just sell like crap and they pulled her to put her out of her misery? It could be either given his numerous posts claiming "poor sales"

I think it's VERY clear what he means. They produced a very very limited quantity of both Goddess and Zodak to test the waters with the aim of increasing production to a level that made the production of these bonus figures feasible if they did well BUT they took longer than expected to sell out and so increasing the production was not possible and keeping the production as low as it was for those two would not make the bonus figures profitable. This is how I interpret it.

I would like to thank Toyguru for clearing the air. I know he works hard for us and appreciate that but I would like to respectfully remind him that in a few of his posts over this site he mentioned earlier that HE is the person replying to the questions in the faq. Maybe he just means that he has to follow the guidelines of the Matel legals and reps when he does, though?

It is odd that GG is looked at by Mattel as being a poor seller. Wasn't the original intent for these figures to last more than just a few days, but actually a week or two? Are any of these figures in this line poor sellers? I can't really imagine that they are. Maybe Mattel has set expectations way too high themselves.

Or is it maybe that the subscription orders threw that idea about figures lasting for weeks out the window?

I think it's VERY clear what he means. They produced a very very limited quantity of both Goddess and Zodak to test the waters with the aim of increasing production to a level that made the production of these bonus figures feasible if they did well BUT they took longer than expected to sell out and so increasing the production was not possible and keeping the production as low as it was for those two would not make the bonus figures profitable. This is how I interpret it.

That how I interpret it as well. But you see in at least 3 different posts from Scott that has not been the way it was phrased. He has just said she was a poor seller. Its the fact we have to interpret what he says that breeds the discussions.

Context is very important, JLU is a POOR seller in respects they had to cancel the 4 packs they were doing after next weeks. Goddess being a POOR seller has a completely different context if it means she did not sell fast enough to warrant increased production.

Owner Fantastic Plastic Toys. Authorized Integrity Toys Dealer. We ship international. We carry Monster High, Realm of the Underworld, Funko, NECA, Japanese Imports & much more! Creator of Mystical Warriors of the Ring, a 2" Animal Wrestling Minifigure line, with toys now made in China! Check us out!

I would like to thank Toyguru for clearing the air. I know he works hard for us and appreciate that but I would like to respectfully remind him that in a few of his posts over this site he mentioned earlier that HE is the person replying to the questions in the faq. Maybe he just means that he has to follow the guidelines of the Matel legals and reps when he does, though?

That is just it though it has never been qualified. We were told what a GOOD sell out time was, a figure comes in under that and its POOR? We do not need specifics, we do not need how much money they made. But you cannot expect fans to try their hardest to keep the line going when apparently from figure to figure the amount is up in the air

Business 101 at least to me says this many need to sell out to make profit, if they do not then profit is not made. Using the term "poor" denotes that she did not turn a profit or struggled, but fact is she still sold out.

And take their other lines, MOTUC sells out and the rest don't. But they are perfectly fine?? Guess we should just wait till they start pulling figures all together like they are doing with JLU to comprehend just how bad things have gotten

I think once again its just a poor choice of wording, its an inherent problem that has been going on with him or whoever is telling him what to say. Semantics can change the understanding of everything.

Like I said, I think that there might be more going on than we are privy too.

We don't know what their margins or like or what the upper management pressure is like. As the economy changes, the requirements might change too. Perhaps the 3-week thing was made up for some reason. It's possible, I am not disputing that. But on the other hand, maybe things changed that aren't shared with us and at the time 3-weeks was an accurrate indicator of their desired sales windows. As a side, when did they originally mention a 3-week desired window? I know they said it but I can't recall when it was.

As for whether a sale is poor or good, that too depends on what the expectations are from up high. If GG had an absolutely tiny run, then that might be deemed as poor because in their estimation the hassle and potential risk of similarly obscure characters isn't worth it. It could come down to a basic cost-benefit analysis where they decide that there are other better ways to spend their money.

Edit: Poor might also be used as a comparison to other figure sales which have set a high bar. For instance, if it had a fraction of the run size and took 336X longer to sell out (two weeks divided by a rough one hour 'normal' speed), it could be deemed to be poor.

It is odd that GG is looked at by Mattel as being a poor seller. Wasn't the original intent for these figures to last more than just a few days, but actually a week or two? Are any of these figures in this line poor sellers? I can't really imagine that they are. Maybe Mattel has set expectations way too high themselves.

Or is it maybe that the subscription orders threw that idea about figures lasting for weeks out the window?

To me any sell out is a solid sale for Mattel, especially when their other lines do not sell out.

And if subs did change the window or sales time (meaning less figures = less time expected to sell) then they should really say that. I said before we do not request production numbers, limits, or any kind of personal information. We just want to know if the expectations on us have changed.

Never before have I seen a company seem to push off the fans for wanting to know how fast they should be spending their money

Owner Fantastic Plastic Toys. Authorized Integrity Toys Dealer. We ship international. We carry Monster High, Realm of the Underworld, Funko, NECA, Japanese Imports & much more! Creator of Mystical Warriors of the Ring, a 2" Animal Wrestling Minifigure line, with toys now made in China! Check us out!

considering that the Goddess was a poor seller, Mattel is going to be reluctant to do other extremely obscure characters as well.

If Mattel thinks something selling out in 2 weeks is a "poor seller", then I have no faith in this line finishing. Quite a number of motu characters that have yet to be produced can be considered obscure.

How about this idea? What if Mattel re-released bonus figures every year or so for new fans to get a chance to get those figures. This would seem to create more revenue for those specific figures and warrant the continuation of the bonus figures that aren't so popular (i.e., He-Man, Skeletor). Production numbers would be exact, or maybe a slightly lower, than the first sale.

Actually, I think every figure in this needs a re-release after a year or so. Probably in smaller quantities, but at least it gives people that just came aboard to begin their collections. I do realize that other toy lines don't do this for every figure that is made, but a lot of them do see many re-releases in some way or another.

I think the notion comes from his statements during those times he asks. Take the NA thing for example, he said that a certain figure (Darius) could not be made because they were not owned by Mattel and then in mere minutes was proven wrong due to the fact they made a prototype just like He-Ro. If you are uncertain about an issue then do not go proclaiming it and be proven wrong, it puts your credibility into question. Don't get me wrong I think its great that he asked for help, we do have the creator of the damn show sitting right here as a member and a number of fans who were on the NA Train since the show was on the air.

Point taken. That's something he could definitely work on. It's just that he seemed willing to work with Emiliano in that particular case, who apparently had some sort of official documentation that he was offering to send.

I dunno. I guess I'm just not really sure about some things. Like remember how Toyguru (someone) called The Star Sisters "The Tall Sisters" in one of the Q & A sessions? Now, was that intentional or did someone maybe get wires crossed because I'm constantly rambling on about them? hehe

Sometimes when I'm really tired or overworked or in a rush my typing goes to crap and stuff comes out wrong.

@ DB You should have seen the debate over the 2K power sword back in the day, people were taking chunks out of each other. Orgers are mostly a respectful bunch, but make no mistake we are a passionate bunch as well and considering MVCreations own or set up this board (I think) this place has always been a strong hold for the 2K comic fans. There have been some fierce arguments over the years on perticular issues. Anyone remember the uproar over She-Ra's 11th hour rooted hair change, total blood bath! Maybe the comments wearn't mean't to insult fans, but they were IMO exactly as Gbagok put it, lemon juice on a still fresh cut! As a brand manager PR is a big part of his job, he should have known better, and taken more care in what he sais. Everyone on the org has moderation from time to time, I guess TG just had his first real tast of it himself. If he words his comments more carefully hopefully for everyone this won't happen again.

PRO CLASSIC POP TOY DESIGN ELEMENTS BEING USED IN MOTUC TO COMPLEMENT THE FILMATION DESIGNS!!!!

I FULLY SUPPORT THE INCLUSION OF ILLUMINA IN MOTUC!!!!!

IF YOUR SICK OF WAITING FOR A LIGHT TO APPEAR AT THE END OF THE TUNNEL, STRIDE DOWN THERE AND LIGHT THE BLOODY THING YOURSELF!!!!!!!

To me any sell out is a solid sale for Mattel, especially when their other lines do not sell out.

And if subs did change the window or sales time (meaning less figures = less time expected to sell) then they should really say that. I said before we do not request production numbers, limits, or any kind of personal information. We just want to know if the expectations on us have changed.

Never before have I seen a company seem to push off the fans for wanting to know how fast they should be spending their money

You hit the nail right on the head. It shouldn't matter if she took 3 hours to sell out or 3 weeks, it's still a sell out.

Originally Posted by Angel-T

@ DB You should have seen the debate over the 2K power sword back in the day, people were taking chunks out of each other.

LOL!! I frequent some GI Joe and Star Wars sites as well and have seen some really hateful things said over really trivial things. I admit, whether I'm on here, a SW site or a Joe site, that I get passionate about toys too, sometimes. I love to collect them! I just don't like getting angry over them. I am all for constructive criticism and great debates! I'd love to sit down and have a beer or two and talk about He-Man with you all!

Last edited by DarthBrett; February 11, 2010 at 01:57pm.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost

I think it's VERY clear what he means. They produced a very very limited quantity of both Goddess and Zodak to test the waters with the aim of increasing production to a level that made the production of these bonus figures feasible if they did well BUT they took longer than expected to sell out and so increasing the production was not possible and keeping the production as low as it was for those two would not make the bonus figures profitable. This is how I interpret it.

I think that this is a very strong possibility and one which I suspect to be correct. However, due to Mattel's stringent silence on production numbers I think that it is possible that TG is not at liberty to divulge the information in this level of detail, hence his relatively undetailed responses regarding GG's success.

If Scott is not answering these Q&As, and we know he's Toyguru, then this has to be the case on the Matty forums where he's answering fan questions in the "Ask Matty" forum.

Therefore, why doesn't PR and Legal just handle this themselves if Scott has no involvement in them other than to hand over the answer?

That way Scott isn't blamed and maybe problems with misspellings, bad wording, and contradicting info can be addressed and solved thanks to us being able to talk directly to whoever is answering these questions.

Because if someone else is answering this, this added step with Scott posting the answers only adds to the factors of miscommunication.

Owner Fantastic Plastic Toys. Authorized Integrity Toys Dealer. We ship international. We carry Monster High, Realm of the Underworld, Funko, NECA, Japanese Imports & much more! Creator of Mystical Warriors of the Ring, a 2" Animal Wrestling Minifigure line, with toys now made in China! Check us out!

If Mattel thinks something selling out in 2 weeks is a "poor seller", then I have no faith in this line finishing. Quite a number of motu characters that have yet to be produced can be considered obscure.

You're probably right about that. Goddess and Zodak were made almost entirely from existing parts, so it's not like they wasted extra tooling dollars on making them. Now I just don't see them spending the tooling dollars needed for the uniquely sculpted obscure characters.

I really want to know why Goddess is being singled out as a failure. She went on sale just 10 days before Christmas, I imagine many people simply couldn't afford her until after the holidays.

If Scott is not answering these Q&As, and we know he's Toyguru, then this has to be the case on the Matty forums where he's answering fan questions in the "Ask Matty" forum.

Therefore, why doesn't PR and Legal just handle this themselves if Scott has no involvement in them other than to hand over the answer?

That way Scott isn't blamed and maybe problems with misspellings, bad wording, and contradicting info can be addressed and solved thanks to us being able to talk directly to whoever is answering these questions.

Because if someone else is answering this, this added step with Scott posting the answers only adds to the factors of miscommunication.

Do people think Goddess was produced in fewer quantities than Zodak? Not a great test subject if the Goddess had smaller numbers and becomes the only obscure non-toy character to be tried as a bonus figure then.

Originally Posted by DarthBrett

Wow, some people on here are being downright ******** about this.

Originally Posted by DarthBrett

But again, I never once name-called or attacked a specific person or member on here, it was a general statement.

Name calling even en masse, is still name calling.

Originally Posted by DarthBrett

And your statement about not liking other people's thoughts could apply to you as well if you think about it.

I don't think holding up the mirror to you makes me guilty of the same offense, sorry.

This is related to my last post about the Goddess being a "poor seller" with the stats I posted. Here are some of your comments, Toyguru and I need clarification on them:

December 10th, 2008:

Originally Posted by Toyguru

First off, sales are doing very well. If sales continue at a current rate, it looks like each figure will likely sell out in about a month which is where we hoped we would be.
Toy Guru

January 27th, 2009:

Originally Posted by Toyguru

Skeletor sold really really. And when we only have a few hundred left we are going to bring some of him to SDCC.

And based on sales of three figures so far, we are guessing a figure will be available between 2-3 weeks. Hopefully plenty of time for collectors who really want them to buy them.

After that they will sell out when they are bought out. We haven't yet and won't ever "strategically" pull figures. Every figure thus far and going forward will sell out based on only one factor, how fast fan's buy them.

With that said, Skeletor is getting very close (and faster then we expected) to selling out. So if you want him, now is the time.

TG

April 17th, 2009:

Originally Posted by Toyguru

MOTUC has been selling out much faster than expected.

TG

October 21st, 2009 (about Zodak bonus figure and the future of bonus figures):

Originally Posted by Toyguru

Selling very well. We'll keep an eye on him, Goddess, BA He-Man and Battlecat before giving the green light on more bonus figures. If there is not enough support for more then one figure per month, we won't do them. Simple as that. You vote with your purchase people!

TG

December 29th, 2009:

Originally Posted by Toyguru

If Zodak and Goddess performed better we would have increased the "bonus" figures beyond what we needed as "insurance figures". Each performed well, but not well enough to justify doing additional figures purely as additional figures-of-the-month. As we have always stated, we needed to see how they did first. Now we know. And the decision is to stick with only the "bonus" figures needed to insure there is always a one new figure each month should any production delays happen. If these figures sold out quicker we might have added more knowing the demand was there.

Does that clarify?

December 30th, 2009:

Originally Posted by Toyguru

The runs on most MOTUC figures (especially the "bonus figures") are so small that by the time we get samples, most of the run is complete.

February 11th, 2010:

Originally Posted by Toyguru

But in the big picture, considering that the Goddess was a poor seller, Mattel is going to be reluctant to do other extremely obscure characters as well.

TG

So, the initial plan was for MOTUC figures to be available for a full month (31 days) and then changed to 2-3 weeks (14-21 days).

6 days into the sales of Zodak you mention he was selling "very well."
Skeletor sold out 3 days less than the Goddess and he was selling out "faster than expected" and I think you were going for really, really well.

You said that Zodak and Goddess performed well on December 29th, but now you say sales were poor?

I'm very confused because BOTH figures (Zodak and Goddess) sold out in less than Mattel's expected sell-out times: 2-3 weeks. Zodak sold out 2 days before reaching the 2 week mark, and the Goddess sold out the day before making it to 2 weeks. How can sales be considered "poor" now?

Does your December 30th quote mean Zodak and Goddess were smaller runs than all other MOTUC figures?

November 12th, 2009 (2 quotes):

Originally Posted by Toyguru

We will look at online fan voting, but in this case we are going with the SDCC vote. Getting to vote on aspects of the line is part of what makes the convention special for those who attend.

Originally Posted by Toyguru

You guy vote on tons of stuff! Why do you think we are doing Adora and Goddess figures, because you demanded it!

This particular issue went to SDCC. But online fans still have a ton of influence.

So, could you ask fans at SDCC if they would like and Illumina and her cat, bring it to your bosses and see the possibility?

Last edited by Darkspecter; February 11, 2010 at 02:34pm.

Take part in Illumina Day! Let people know who she is and help get her in MOTUC.

I don't think holding up the mirror to you makes me guilty of the same offense, sorry.

I think I should have been more clear what I meant when I said that. I meant that if we had the mentality that if we don't like what we hear, then we should stay off the site or not go into the forums, then nobody would be on these forums at all. Meaning everybody says things that we don't agree with or may not always like, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't go on these message boards just because we don't want to hear what we want to or hear what we don't want to.

In short, you can't tell me to not go on these forums if I don't like what I hear. Isn't this whole debate about something TG said that nobody wanted to hear? So by that logic, everybody should just not bother going on here because they aren't going to like what they see or hear.

You're probably right about that. Goddess and Zodak were made almost entirely from existing parts, so it's not like they wasted extra tooling dollars on making them. Now I just don't see them spending the tooling dollars needed for the uniquely sculpted obscure characters.

Indeed. What's going to happen when "extendar", "sweet bee" and "butthead" last for 2 weeks?
Then again maybe that's why they seem to be more tailoring the line to subscriptions only now. Otherwise those figures would never sell out.
Anyway, I don't want to pretend like I know what's going on, so I'll just say "This Sucks!!!11!"