Phillies Notes: Wigginton, Lee, Pence, Rollins

The Phillies signed Cole Hamels to a historic six-year, $144MM extension this morning. After weeks of rumors, it’s now apparent that Hamels will stay put, but his teammates don’t all enjoy the same security. Here’s the latest on the Phillies…

The Yankees considered pursuing Ty Wigginton, but the Phillies aren't offering him up, Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com reports (on Twitter).

An American League executive suggested the Phillies' deal with Hamels means Cliff Lee and Hunter Pence are available, Joel Sherman of the New York Post reports (on Twitter).

When you factor in how Headley’s numbers have been totally suppressed by his home ballpark, and Pence’s have been inflated somewhat by his, I think Headly is the more valuable player. He’s definitely the cheaper player. If I’m San Diego I don’t do that deal.

I think the reason they don’t do the deal is because they are rebuilding and want prospects, not players that have 1 year left of control. Headley has more value solely because he plays a position that more teams need. RF is incredibly easy to fill for most teams, they don’t give up a big haul.

I’m under no obligation to be ignorantly optimistic just because I’m a fan of a team. The more worthwhile perspective is to be smart in your allegiance. It is smarter to trade Victorino, Polanco, Blanton, Rollins, and maybe Pence this year to retool and acquire younger players who can actually help in future years. Except for Pence, none of those guys will be helping us in the future.

The comparison between the number of games isn’t as relevant as the number of teams between them and that W.C. spot. They aren’t just chasing the Braves, they also have to jump the Mets, Miami, Pittsburgh, Cards, Dodgers and D’Backs! They need to play .700 baseball… which is unlikely with this bullpen!

I sincerely think that the GM has not given up on this season — and the fact that they have done pretty well since the ASB may have restored faith that they can get the job done. Teams have come back from worse deficits, but the fact remains that unless the Nats implode, they’ve got a big fight for the wild card. Good news is that a few of their competitors are in sell-mode, and they’ve been pulling themselves back into the race. The bad news is that the teams they’ve been facing recently have been imploding themselves, so it’s not exactly a sign of good things to come. It’s a really tough call to make, as I see it, but I am thinking that they’re concerned about ticket revenue and don’t want to be sellers if they have a remote chance.

Yeah, that would be nice if the Phillies were actually any good and if they were down 12 games to the Braves, but they’re down 12 games to the Pirates who actually have prospects to buy at the deadline unlike the Phillies and their barren minor league system.

NOw way the pirates trade marte for Pence. The only way Marte gets moved is if it were for a player that is under team control for 2 or 3 seasons.
Casey Mecghee, meek and tabata is what i would offer to philly. Cost controled RF and a 3rd basemen plus a former all starter set up man.

no they want cheap major league players. they have to stay under 200 mill and have 90 mill in 4 players. If people think there gonna get prospects for him that dont understand how bad of a finiancal screw job philly put themselves in. If they dont trade vicitorino and Pence and both of those players take arbritration thats close 25 mill for 2 more players so simple math 115 mill for 6 players.

No you clearly don’t understand the situation that the Phillies are in. Their payroll is not as small as your Pirates therefore they can go above the luxury tax and are prepared to do so in order to fill their holes. They have a massive TV deal in the coming years that may be worth more than the one the Angels recieved which allowed them to spend 300 million this offseason. They will not do a trade for either Pence or Victorino for the trash that you named. Please just stop with this nonsense. For Pence you will give up good, promising prospects and for Victorino you will give up a good reliever and other prospects. If not, then the Pirates won’t get either and the Phillies probably do a trade with the Dodgers.

Marte is completely blocked and essentially useless outside of a trade chip, and he is a good chip to get someone like Pence, who isn’t a rental btw. I’ll give you Polanco or Blanton for the slop you mentioned though.

How is Marte blocked? The almighty Alex Presley or the Jones/McGahee are too much to overcome?

I agree he may be best used as a trade chip but I’d use him for someone very good who can fill a need for more than one season. Pence is a possibility but I wouldn’t do it because he will be very expensive next year even though he still has a year of control.

McGehee is literaly the same exact person as Ty Wigginton except not as good. Tabata would be a fit for them maybe but his stock has been down for 2 years now and Meek is just atrocious.

I’m sure if they offered up Grilli or Lincoln as a centerpiece of a deal they can get Pence or Victorino but not sure I want to mess with how well the pen is working right now for a player who may not give you much more than Marte would.

Amaro wants prospects? I’ll believe that when I see it. From what I can tell, he’s simply a fool with money. Already spent a crapload on a closer who only comes in when they are winning, I don’t think it’s out of the question that a light’s out reliever (Lincoln or Grilli) would be the centerpiece of a deal for Pence.

Okay and I’m saying a centerpiece for Pence will not be a reliever, Victorino yes, he even asked for Lincoln for Victorino, but Pence no, if the Pirates want him they will have to give up some good prospects. If not then Pence stays the Phillies try to make a run and offer Pence arb. for next year when everyon is healthy.

But it is highly unlikely. You don’t become buyers at 10 games out. There are only 7 teams with records worse than the Phillies in all f baseball. So should the other 22 teams be buyer because they have a shot of a insane run that happens 1% of time.

Lee doesn’t have a back end loaded contract. It’s 25m per year. You probably saw somewhere that he is due 87.5 over the next 3. That 87.5 includes a 12.5m buyout in 2016. 25m in ’13, 25m in ’14, 25m in ’15. 27.5m in ’16 or a 12.5m buyout

Hmm, 24M for a pitcher who has never won more than 15 games, only had a sub 3.00 once in his career in the NL, has only one 200 K season, appears to be a complete tool in his interviews and will never be a HOF. Seams reasonable. I wonder what a real ace and not a #2 posing as an ace goes for.

I’m not going to argue with a bias Phillies fan but I know if Hamels is my ace I wouldn’t like my chances but if he was my #2, I’d be ok with that. Personally, I would have rather signed Cj Wilson, traded Hamels and saved myself 10M/yr. I think that Wilson is better than Hamels straight up and would have been much cheaper. He’s posted win totals equaling Hamels highest in his only 2 yrs starting, pitched to a lower ERA in a friendlier park, in the AL and has less innings on his arm.

Those are their career stats. Bias? I don’t think so. I understand Wilson used to be in the bullpen but that just makes Hamels look even better. Hamels is clearly better than Wilson. Oh and let’s not forget these stats.

Friendlier park? Okay but that’s weak since Hamels also plays in a park known as a bandbox. Wilson’s wins are helped by the potent offenses that he has playin behind him. Less innings on the arm? True but Hamels is 3 years younger…

Yes, friendlier park and with a DH he still posted an ERA under 3.00. And I don’t want to hear about win totals being inflated by a potent offense coming from a Phillies fan. He had more than his fair share of loaded offenses and the best win total he could manage was 15? Come on. I could probably name 10 Lefties that are better or arguably equal to Hamels. Not to mention the 10M you could have saved could have been used on a decent player. I’m a Tigers fan and have no east coast (live in AZ, so i see east and west coast teams) or Wilson bias unlike yourself, just giving a outside perspective. But hey if you like your teams to be handcuffed by second tier players than so be it. Too bad we probably won’t revisit this in the future to analyze the outcome. But good luck to your Phils

That ast post wasn’t biased at all, it was career stats that showed how Hamels is better than Wilson and is 3 years younger. It just seems that you’re to ignorant to just look at the stats and see that Hamels is better. Oh and it seems that Hamels will most likely eclipse that career high in wins this year since he already has 11. Also please list 10 lefties that are better than Hamels statistacally because I would love to see that. Here’s two Sabathia and Lee, now all you need is 8, remember it must be based on stats.

Yes because that last post was biased. Come on. How about you make that list of those 10 lefties but it has to be able to be backed up on paper since Wilson is clearly not better than Hamels as the stats show above. Here’s two…Sabathia and Lee, now just find those 8 but you have to have the stats to back you up or it’s just irrelevant. Oh and you must know about handcuffing contracts I suppose with that massive deal to Fielder right?

Brown, Mayberry, I think Nix has one more year, and they’ll have to sign or trade for a CF and based on the year Pierre is having unless they trade him I cansee them bringing him back for some speed off the bench

Ah, my mistake. The Markets loaded with outfielders and corner outfielders are very easy to find, so I’m not worried if they trade Pence… especially if they get value back.

Personally, I hope they make a run at Michael Bourn. Getting him would finally remove Charlie’s tired excuse of not having a leadoff hitter better than Jimmy Rollins. Jimmy’d be a much better player in the 6th/7th spot in the line up.

WAY too much? So your saying that the bidding war over the only elite level left-handed starter on the market that would have gone down between the Angels, Dodgers, and Rangers wouldn’t have exceeded 6/144? I think it would have but it doesn’t really matter now anyway

Elite as in an elite #2, yes. I think he would have gotten somewhere near 6/144 as a free agent, and that any team that pays that much is overpaying. If Matt Cain is worth 6/127.5, then Hamels is worth 6/110.

Its actually because polanco is hurt now and supposedly they arebt sure if hell even be able to.come back. so the only other option they have now at third base is wiggington. So they cant trade him… Cant just put anyone there. They’re still trying to win games…

I understand wanting to keep Hamels, but are you kidding me? The Phillies have a few holes and when you have approx. $80million per season tied up in 2 starting pitchers, closer, and a 1st baseman, what are you doing? You are hamstringing yourself. The Phillies may have a high payroll, but they are not the Yankees. I believe Philly would be much better off selling Hamels for pieces for the future. They’ve dealt away a majority of their top prospects in recent years and their minor league system isn’t so strong with guys waiting to jump right in and be an everyday contributor. I think Hamels is a TOR pitcher, but this contract is a mistake for the franchise in the position they are in.

Agreed, on top of their game they are both in the top 10 pitchers in the league but if the Rangers are waving a stud 3b prospect who looks like a future all star and maybe a very good CF prospect, how can you say no?