“Recovering” People: Scientology’s Desperation

Things are becoming more desperate inside the scientology bubble. There are signs everywhere.

There are so many people “off the Bridge” that they have to hold seminars to help train people to get them back… in the “good old days” there were more new people coming in than blew off so those who decided the tech didn’t work were pretty much ignored. Focus was on getting those who bought into the “Bridge” to keep moving up.

Nowdays they make a big show of reaching new people with soft sell SuperBowl ads and scientologyTV but these are really just to show the whales something is being done with their money. They are highly ineffective. Scientology is in a steep decline phase. Public opinion is uniformly negative. Google is like th3 Black Plague for scientology. So they are increasingly focused on trying to get back those who once came in the door. They are an easier sell than brand new people. They spend huge sums tracking addresses for former book buyers and people who came into orgs. The new fad is to focus on “bridge recovery.”

So they are bringing in someone from Chicago? Chicago? That tiny, failing org that hasn’t been able to get their ideal org building renovated in a decade?

They have to import someone from out of town to deliver a seminar in Los Angeles?

Los Angeles, home of the mighty Sea Org powerhouses LA Org, ASHO, AOLA and CC Int. And “ideal” orgs in Valley, Pasadena, Inglewood and Orange County. And the SuMP. And Bridge Publications. And CSI. And ABLE Int. And CCHR Int. And Author Services. And WISE Int. And WTH Fdn.

WAYC:
“And all non-UTR scientologists should ask themselves, what has David Miscavige done to have pulled this all in?”
IMO, the non-UTR members still in KNOW what DM has done and are either actively ignoring or just not-believing the truth. If they are believing DM’s spoutings as ‘truth’, they’re possibly too low in intelligence to reflect on all the inconsistancies

Just finished watching the Season Finale. As a LEO of over 18 years I was very interested in the guest who was a 28 year veteran Police Lieutenant and what she had to say. I concur with her advice but I also felt compelled to get online and make my points while they were still fresh in my mind.

First. Leah and her missing persons report with LAPD. I highly recommend she file a FOIA request with LAPD demanding the report and any associated investigatory paperwork. It may take a while and perhaps some lawyer intervention but…if the “case is closed” LAPD will have a difficult time arguing that the information cannot be released under a FOIA Request.

Second. The Lieutenants advice about training officers is absolutely correct, BUT in conjunction with this training…if not FIRST…the Prosecutors;the District Attorneys, the USAttorneys and the State Attorney Generals offices HAVE to get on board. They have to get on board with prosecuting Scientology related cases and they have to guide Law Enforcement in regards to what sort of cases they will pursue and what sort of evidence they will need to do so.

I was very sympathetic with Mikes complaint about how many of the people involved in some of these cases will sign depositions under penalty of perjury denying any wrong doing occurred. That can be an impassible hurdle for a Police Officer/Detective. Absent a victim willing to sign a complaint or witnesses willing to come forward there’s not much an officer can do. A prosecuting agency would have to commit to a LONG term case and attempt to argue that these people are victims even if they deny it or if (so called) witnesses deny it.

If you believe there’s a bridge to go “up” in scientology then, boy, do *I* got a bridge to sell you.

The only bridge in scientology is the bridge to you banks accounts and credit cards where these vultures masquerading as humans can waddle in and pick your naive and ignorant carcass clean. Remember that the next time you see a dead animal on the side of the road.

Brian,
Hi Bro. Watched your video with Ron Miscavige on OT V IIII. Great analysis and comments. By the way, it was the Freewinds not the Apollo, as you mention. Thanks for exposing L Ron Hubbard in the role of Lucifer. He was on the dark side of the metaphysical spectrum. Some day we need to get together and blow the myth that Hubbard was “Source”
George

Love to be a fly on the wall for this meeting of minds! George will be there on April Fool’s Day, so yes, Brian, you can have a “Brain-storming” event. Afterwards you can watch “The Devil Rides Out” and then “The Omen” to garner even more new and fictitious ideas. Don’t worry though – you won’t really spontaneously combust – that was just a silly story. Please both wear hair shirts for the event but no self-flagellation is allowed in deference to the neighbors.

Foolproof,
Great to hear that your mood has improved! Foolproof, I want to correct you. Self-flagellation was at its peak during the Bubonic Plague in Europe. Roaming band of citizens were convinced that God had brought the black death. The self-flagellation was to make up for the sins of the population. Jesuits came much later. Also, you obviously have not been reading me on the blogs. While I credit the Jesuits with getting me out of Scientology, it was really Saint Francis of Assisi that I followed out. Read his “Ode to the Sun”. He created the Franciscans. He is famous for having developed the “Stigmata” or the wounds of Jesus on his hands and feet. Never forget I am your senior and that Hubbard was responsible for the early deaths of my two FSM’s. We need to track all of the destruction from OT VIII in 1988. It really was Scientology’s version of self-flagellation.
Brian, look forward to meeting you in LA, bro. Can’t drink beer because of the 5th Buddhist precept but I love Mango juice.

Brain, I seem to remember you stating you are also a Buddhist (as well as George seemingly)? Jesuit George (the part-time Buddhist) mentions this 5th Precept thing (probably another made up story) but did you not know about this? Or have you been squirreling Buddhism again? Like everything else?

And I thought Buddhists (sic) were supposed to be mild mellow types, not rabid critics? Do your Zen Masters know that you are here disparaging others? You’d best report for cramming, or rather ethics, as usual. It’s the 3rd door down on the right in the Temple. Don’t forget your routing form!

Foolproof,
I hate to bust your bubble but the Torquemada data from Hubbard was copied from Blavatsky. She was his mother, you know.
It is a myth that all Buddhists are mild, mellow types. The Buddha recognized the need for a warrior class. So as your senior, I am a warrior. Remember I hold the keys to Scientology. I have the processes to audit the GE which Miscavige lacks. He can dream up his own, but he will never duplicate the originals.
I mentioned that I am Franciscan. So you can call me a Jesuit/Franciscan/Buddhist.

Yes Logicprrof. The spontaneously combustion story was just another silly of L Con Hubtard’s stories. Like getting seriously ill if the OT 3 story was told to someone.

Told so that brainwashed scamologists would tell about the material to those not yet brainwashed. El Con feared, quite rightly, that such people would see the scam for what it was before dumping boat loads of cash in his orgs.

He also said that someone was at risk of addiction or perversion if they didn’t immediately go onto the OT levels after Clear, a point not often mentioned. I think that was written in a bulletin or policy letter. The monthly price increases resumed soon after I attested to Clear and I wasn’t willing to pay the price so I took my chances and split.

So at least I saved the money I would have spent on the OT levels and had more money to spend on my addictions and perversions. Lucky me.

Like many misconceptions there is a complete additive of “perversions” – just to spice things up and titilate a bit eh Richard? You are starting to give your “game” away now, see DED-DEDEX or as Freud might say “za overt might speak loudeth when za dude mentions it in a roundabout way!”

And it seems in your case you should have heeded the warnings eh? It all came true!

Hi mike, why don’t we call Scientology what it is, a terrorist organization. They infiltrate government, covert operations, undercover surveillance, cover up murder and rape, money laundering, mind control and use religion to recruit. Sounds like terrorism to me? Also could it be that the FBI silence on Scientology is because they are already on the inside doing undercover gathering information? I have heard of you and a couple of other high profile defectors talking with the FBI and them having drones monitoring activity?
Keep up the great work, you are making a difference, the snowball is picking up steam.

As the membership of Scientology drops, with the corresponding loss of monies and headlines while the recent tie in with Islam is also sending folks out the door, there will come a time when the COB and his hirelings will need to pull off some sort of a major positive PR caper out of desperation. Like the sudden discovery of the ‘Shroud of Scientology’ or some ancient texts on papyrus foretelling the arrival of L. Ron Hubbard found in a cave in Mesopotamia or one near the Red Sea. With their millions of tax free dollars, they could certainly come up with a scheme of a similar nature designed to both catapult them favorably into the headlines and to send new members pouring into the ORG’s, like millions of golden nuggets sluiced from a mother lode in a Yukon stream.

Holy Xenu the Scientologists are really desperate to contact me. I mean they went though some trouble to find me. I have been off that radar since LRH audited the tomatoes.

I told them to watch Leah and Mike’s show on A&E and quit wasting their lives working for free as the leader lives a lavish lifestyle. David Miscavige is beating up Sea Org staff.

Do your own research – you are being lied to! It is going to really suck when you finally figure that out. The sooner you look, the sooner YOU can decide if Scientology really is what it proclaims to be.

Wynski: creepy video of a creepy place. What struck me was that the internal doors had pretty serious security on them, more than we ‘needed’ in NYC in the early ’70s, and far more than we need/want in Pennsylvania. And here I thought the Canadians were more civilized than needing such sturdy locks ….

I’ve resigned myself to getting annoying phone calls and junk mail for the rest of my life. But, if the rest of my life is long enough to see the “ideal” buildings sold off and Miscavige jailed, it’ll be worth it!

NOI Success Stories are loaded with praises to Allah. Eventually an NOI will attest to OT8 and he or she can explain how they got to the top of the bridge and remained a racist or Black supremacist. That’s religion for you.

I don’t understand how an NOI can get to OT3 (or whichever the level it is) and learn about Zenu etc – surely that has to go against their belief in Allah etc – I just don’t understand how both sides think this is a good fit – strange bedfellows for sure!

BECAUSE
Scientology cannot operate in an environment where ideas, actions, motives and historical events can be openly examined and discussed. It cannot take one iota of criticism without shaming the voice as “Black PR merchant” “OSA particle” “SP troublemaker” “degraded beiong.” :List one R/Ser”

The evidence of this statement is that for nearly the entire 65+ year history of Hubbard’s organizations (first the various Dianetics foundations, then the various incarnations of the Church of Scientology) the senior leadership has fought countless internal wars with themselves, with their adherents and with their “enemies”.

The proof of this statement is that in all areas of the globe, as written in the blog today, Scientology Orgs are virtually empty. Despite the church leadership’s lies about “millions of members” the unarguable truth is that Scientology is a withering group because the general public is now aware of the horrific doimination, violence and abuse perpetrated by church leadership.

Seeking to gain undue personal advantage over all others, church leadership have operated for decades on the basis of willful manipulation of the truth in almost every imaginable way, then used their own internal intelligence agency operatives or expensive outside lawyers and PI’s to silence the dissent that the leadership’s own behavior fomented. Church leadership have made a bonafide practice of promising hyperbolic “results” from their “spiritual technology” which they have NEVER been able to adequately deliver. The resulting customer dissatisfaction is almost without peer in any institution that is still in operation.

In some ways the existence of Scientology has provided an excellent, well documented study of just how badly human behavior can devolve, while hiding behind a brazenly false disguise of altruism.

I think it could be used in a SOTU message to describe what the true state of our union and the people within it is. That of course should include both sides of the fence and really think that the bad actors are the minority!
The cult of course really believes that anyone outside their influence is, well, just a wog (putting it nicely)

I’m getting calls from Scientology recovery specialists using spoofed phone numbers and innocuous caller IDs, like the name of a city & state, but never identifying the Church of Scientology. They won’t even identify themselves with caller ID now.

I spent a couple of minutes talking to one of the recovery specialists. He was very good: Very understanding, lots of admiration and very earnest. I could hear lots of other voices in the background so they apparently have a “boiler room” full of phones and recovery specialists.

Have they taken CLO executives off of selling books and re-assigned them as recovery specialists?

They can call from a number that looks local or from a nearby city for instance – or sometimes its a number that when called back goes no where – doesn’t even ring – spoof = fake – essentially. Wow – how ironic that a fake church would use fake phone numbers! LOL

Sue: good explanation on spoofed phone numbers. Sadly for the poor cold-callers, I believe some of them are being caught by an agency I don’t yet know: OFTEN, an obviously spoofed Caller ID/# is prefixed by SPAM? I’m retired and spend too much time in my office so I can notice these oddities.

A number, which if you call it back, it is disconnected. There is software that can make a caller appear to be calling from any number they want it to look like. We even get calls on our landline from our land line number. Hmm…I wonder if we are calling ourselves? It’s an epidemic these days. I get a dozen or so spoofed number calls a week on my cell phone saying “do not hang up” whoops, what a way to get someone to hang up immediately.

The people spoofing the number believe that if they make a number be from a recognizable exchange or area code even if it doesn’t have a name on the caller ID that you’re more likely to answer it thinking it might be someone you know or someone in your area.

I get an average of 4 spoofed calls a day on the cell I use constantly for work. When you call back there’s no such number. For a long time I picked up when I saw familiar area codes. I’ve since learned that its ok to miss a call because if the person phoning me doesn’t leave a voicemail message most likely its a fake number. Most everyone texts or emails nowadays anyway. A phone call is a BIG deal with my business clients (young people). When they phone they do leave me a message! Now, of course, Still Innies working on recovering you have to hear your “tone level” so texting, emailing is out not an option when “establishing a comm line” Who wants to hear from them? Nobody, apparently. They’re about as welcome as a blob of mayonnaise on your new silk blouse. Ergo the fake numbers are their only shot.

Heh, they get a stat for however you even just answer the phone, with tone, let alone talking with the person. I also believe they used to and maybe still do, borrow another’s phone to call, for the number to fool you. I’ve rechecked many and they have no idea and deny that it was them who they called.

Under the Truth in Caller ID Act, FCC rules prohibit anyone from transmitting misleading or inaccurate caller ID information with the intent to defraud, cause harm or wrongly obtain anything of value. Anyone who is illegally spoofing can face penalties of up to $10,000 for each violation. However, spoofing is not always illegal. There are legitimate, legal uses for spoofing, like when a doctor calls a patient from her personal mobile phone and displays the office number rather than the personal phone number or a business displays its toll-free call-back number.”

If they call you from a spoofed number, please report it to fcc.gov. They are violating the law. Enough $10,000 fines per violation may make them rethink their tactic.

Wouldn’t be surprised if he actually believes that makes him sound oh-so-cool.

Just like some $cientologists (Elle comes mind; he/she has the most absurd names for people who ask tough questions) who post on blogs or news articles containing $cientology stories, a lot of them make up dumb ass nicknames.

I’ve told FP a few times how stupid and childish his nicknames are.
Seems he thinks he’s cute and clever.

“38 years of recovering” and you’re wearing it as some sort of medal! I assume that this is because you followed or allowed off-policy actions and didn’t get your own case sorted out? What were you doing for 38 years then?

I see you are selectively allowing my replies now usually where I point out some obvious nonsense and twisting of the facts as in this video. Been happening quite a bit lately. It’s your blog of course and although you have done so in the past a while back it is getting now to where only your data is being presented and mine misrepresented to blatantly suit your cloth.

Hi FOOLproof. I don’t think this is the case. I sometimes receive email notices that someone has replied to my comment but when I go to the webpage there is no reply there. This is kind of annoying because sometimes a follow-up reply by me seems appropriate but I can’t make that reply because nothing is there to reply to. Sometimes people have responded to my comments on the webpage but I get no email notice letting me know they have done so. Not sure what is going on, but I don’t think you or anyone else is being censored. At least I hope not.

No, that’s because Mike hasn’t read and posted it (permanently) yet. I think the email comes automatically as soon as you enter it although “awaiting moderation” or whatever it is. Correct Mike?

No – Mike did choose to not post a comment, he has done that a few times for me but then he says he also does it with Wynski and others, so fair enough. All I stated was that the video doesn’t sound at all as if she is saying “I would take a bullet for Miscavige” – in fact you can’t really hear it. But then I started another topic as well so perhaps that’s why mine wasn’t allowed? I think I also alluded to Dr. Geobbels and Party Propaganda as well aimed at Brian and George – haha!

This is deeply disturbing and scary!! It makes me worried for the people who are still in this cult- who does that? It’s not a normal pattern of thought. I would take a bullet for my son, but I can’t think of any scenario where I would be willing to die for someone who has shown himself to be so unfeeling to everyone around him! That shows everyone just how brainwashed these people really are, and yes, I can unfortunately picture the possible endings being disastrous (hopefully, Miscavige will just go to jail like Bakker and the other sleazy money-grubbing fakers and the whole thing will just fizzle out). I also hope that there are people who can help these lost souls find some new way of life.

Kat:
“(hopefully, Miscavige will just go to jail like Bakker and the other sleazy money-grubbing fakers and the whole thing will just fizzle out). I also hope that there are people who can help these lost souls find some new way of life.”

If you want to help ensure there are people to help, support the Aftermath Foundation as best you can. I wonder if the Foundation can do a “Minton” and set up shop right next to scn’s empty storefronts on N. Ft. Harrison. If the Aftermath Foundation is like the volunteer organizations I know, they might need people’s time more than money. Someone who actually knows the foundation, PLEASE speak up and correct any of my missed guesses. I’d love to be corrected.

Its just an expression, a figure of speech. Let’s not get so literal. The woman is a deluded idiot on the fast track to a rude awakening but she expressed her defense of her cult by using a colloquialism. Please, let’s not react as the cult would, let’s stay in perspective and not become what we hate.

Foolproof: Are you Serious?? In the few posts you’ve made in response to me you seem to do that and only that (literally interpreting a statement) with your one other response being to take a single comment and try to make that the entire point of the ‘conversation’. (Which is called deflection and is commonly used when there is something else in the conversation that you don’t want to discuss- Ive noticed that’s a trait with Scientologists in general). If you actually have something that would add to discourse, then state it. The “shock horror” and “you don’t know/understand anything” are already old (and non responsive) and I’ve only been on this board for a very short time…or do you have nothing original or compelling to add to a discussion without using those old grinds or resorting to junvenile name calling or mocking?? Neither of which is persuasive.

Add to what “discourse”? This started off with bboy posting a video of someone supposedly saying they would “take a bullet for Miscavige” but you can”t actually hear what is stated in the video. Mike then misrepresented it further probably hoping that no one would actually bother to listen to it, and which was then followed by some fools actually believing the original line, expressing shock and horror, including yourself.

And then because you have read a few web sites on “cults”, have no experience at all in Scientology and probably don’t even know any personally, let alone know what an engram or lock is despite reading Dianetics, then base your “data” on anti-Scientology websites and then try to engage me in some sort of “discourse” with you and feel aggrieved that I don’t play ball! You are not interested in “discourse”, and neither am I interested in discoursing with someone who hasn’t got a clue about Scientology trying to advise me that all Scientologists might want to commit suicide because of the “parallels” you’ve read about in a few websites about Jonestown. You obviously don’t know Scientologists and don’t know Scientology, even in Miscavige’s church. They might like to donate these days, which is foolish, but they are not going to jump off Santa Monica pier en masse with concrete slippers. So don’t worry about them – they’ll be all right. There are plenty more groups you can go and write about.

I DO know scientology. Better than you. I Have seen scientology commit group crimes in the name of the greatest good. They have not been physical self-sacrifice (though certainly financial). They have been sacrificing others because of their belief in the cause. Not sure it’s morally better, but it’s not mass suicide. Lisa McPherson springs to mind but there are MANY other examples of those who have been sacrificed on 5he altar of Scientology beliefs. Check out the double murder case in New Mexico.

You feeling you have to keep defending even the craziest shit is symptomatic of that sort of blind faith. If Hubbard says running around in circles makes you sane, you start running. And you are absolutely certain it is true because he said he researched it based on how whole track recall. Makes perfect sense to you. How far does that devotion go? That is the question. Not whether such blind faith exists. That is indisputable.

Foolproof: I am also assuming that you ignored my advice to you about learning more about the people’s temple PRIOR to Guyana. How it started and how it evolved into what it became when they committed ‘revolutionary suicide’. These are the parallels that I have been commenting on. Yes, I completely believe that Scientology has the potential to turn into a horrible headline in history- but that is because I have actually studied cults and how they operate- as well as what makes them dangerous. Until you do the same research (as well as actual research on the man that Hubbard really was- not the Demi -god you have been brainwashed into beleiveing he is) then don’t make comments that you cannot justify with something other than a pithy comment about how ignorant everyone is who doesn’t agree with you. You can obviously read, and seem to have some intellectual capacity, so why don’t you read up on some history and facts- or were you led to believe that it’s all a bunch of lies created by (another of your favorites ) bigots and biased haters? You once commented that an unbiased person would have agreed with your comments. I saw an episode of aftermath and immediately began researching the church as I wasn’t willing to blindly believe what someone else was saying. I took an unbiased, scientific approach and can say that my final analysis has nothing to do with anyone here. And you still sound like you have been brainwashed by a cult.

One more thing. If you finally do that research, note what was written on the sign above the stage where the final sermon took place…then think very hard about what you have become and where you are headed.

Aquamarine: I think it actually is an issue which needs to be addressed. I am not negating her right to defend what she believes in- but this type of reaction IS very disturbing. While it may be taking things too literally, the alternative is to sit in silence and watch history repeat itself, which I don’t feel is the correct answer. That is why I will look into the foundation mentioned above and why I will look into other ways to help. The patterns within this group are so very troubling that this woman’s reaction may be a barometer of what is actually occurring within the “normal” Scientology population- which is an extremely important factor in all of this since the general public isn’t really allowed into the circle. I get your point about it being “just an expression”, but because of the information out there, this expression holds some major, major concerns and insights. Because of the actions of this (and other) cults, it should arouse a vast measure of concern. I feel that is merited here, if only for the reasons stated.

Understood on all, Kat. I see what you mean and you bring out a good point.

When I said what I did about keeping things in perspective, not over-reacting, etc., to figures of speech, I was directing this opinion of mine at normal people.

That said, figures of speech do indeed act on some people as commands

When I was in I knew a number of Scientologists who took every word Hubbard said literally, even in those instances when it was obvious to me that he was joking or being facetious.

( I also personally know some Christian Fundamentalists (my relatives, sigh) who believe that everything in the Bible is to be taken literally.

Around such people one has to be very careful with language because best case scenario they become offended and upset, and worst case – well, these you read about in the news. People reading hate websites and taking the angry, vituperative comments posted on these sites as commands, and carrying them out. So I hear you!

Aquamarine: thanks for the thoughtful reply. I know that taking things people said literally is a possible pitfall when you are outside the “bubble” so to speak. However, the actions that this cult displays (the absolute control over adherents, the harassment and dogged determination to absolutely destroy people who disagree) makes the statements she made troubling as it demonstrates a willingness to defend their beliefs with statements that are way over the top and are essentially violent in nature rather than defending without using a statement that they would die for the leader. That is the crux of what I find very concerning. While I hope that the end comes peacefully, I am concerned that the actions of this cult are following in some very very dark footsteps.

Actually on review what she did say (honest injun) was “I bet now you’re going to get some silly person posting bombastic comments about how us Scienos are going to press the self-destruct button and all of us jump from the top of Big Blue because she’s read up on Waco and her psychology professor has told her that this is a likely scenario and then to ignore anyone who says otherwise and if they say that it is totally exaggerated ‘Blodsin’ (his family were originally German immigrants), so just keep on posting more and more bombastic nonsense which no one will bother reading and even the die-hards will think ‘Jeez! This gal wants to make a name for herself and even get invited on to that A-2-E program and become famous'”. Yes, I’m sure that’s what she said!

Foolproof: you are completely delisional. I am simply stating my personal concerns about this cult. You keep making fantastical assumptions about me and what I post…none of which have been correct. To take a page from your playbook (shock horror), you don’t know anything. It’s really pathetic. You really need to take the time to figure out why you react so belligerently to posts that criticize your cult.

(See my last comment above.) So, in other words Kat, no one really took the idea of Scientologists committing mass suicide seriously except you and now you are trying to cover up the fact that it wasn’t really a “major, major concern” by huffing and puffing and blustering with more verbiage. You should really have started with listening to the video firstly before launching into a long diatribe on the subject.

As to the expression used (whatever it was that can’t be heard anyway), that tone of defiance (if you can call it that?) I observed from Scientologists over 40 years ago, probably including myself as well, and has nothing to do with performing mass suicides a la Jonestown. You should really get more acquainted with Scientologists before you express your “major, major concerns”.

And as to your “scientific research” you mentioned above somewhere in determining all this for yourself, what er, scientific research was this then? Or did you just read a few web sites?

What video are you listening to?because the one that is posted is pretty clear. The fact that you say you can’t hear what she says tells me a lot about how you want to see things. It’s a willful blindness that you have been programmed to follow.

I made the comments that I have made because, unlike you, I HAVE taken college classes that look at cult psychology and include writing APA papers (researched on multiple levels through scientific journals and texts- no web sites) on how mind control and other forms utilized by cults can degenerate into violent acts (including a very intensive class in Jonestown, heavens gate, Waco and other cults that self destructed and took adherents with them). That is how I have come to the conclusions that I have made here. While you are correct that I have not been a Scientologist, the sad fact is that from what I have been able to study through documents posted by your own church, westlaw research and other avenues, point towards a possible violent end. The fact that you automatically dismiss what I have to say, and try to pretend that I am uneducated enough to rely only on web sites to gather information is just sad. By the way, I also have a graduate degree in anatomy and physiology, but I guess you think I must have used web sites to learn that subject as well since it seems to be the only way you know how to research anything. I also take it that you failed to do the research that I suggested to you or you might understand what I am talking about. Your assertion that I am backing away from a possible mass suicide or high casualty event is also not true. I have stated some of the concerns that I have seen, but you still do not respond to specifics- you just keep saying that Scientologists won’t do that. My point is that the “every day” Scientologists may not- but the ones inside who are sequestered behind barbed wire or who are in the sea organization may. They show a
Disturbing willingness to cross normal boundaries and take actions that are egregious and harmful to others (this demonstrates the control the cult has over their actions. Under normal circumstances, people would question orders that had them lying, stalking, harassing and otherwise doing unethical and amoral deeds in furtherance of their cause). You consistently state that I know nothing about Scientology, and to a point you are correct. However, I can watch videos of the people who are in the cult, can read the court cases where they have displayed abberant behaviors and can see the control Miscavige (and Hubbard before him) have over them. The church doesn’t allow much information out regarding the true beliefs that they hold- they produce slick videos with unrealistic and false claims, which also tells me a lot.

I hope that if there is another season of Mikes show that they talk to someone who has studied cults and can break down areas of concern so that maybe someone will step away before it does implode. I also hope that there isn’t any violence- however, it is too late for that as it has already happened several times and may escalate before it is over.
This is not a scenario that I want to see happen. In fact I am praying that it doesn’t. However, pretending that it isn’t possible is madness.

By the way, since you didn’t do the homework I asked you to, the sign I was referring to said: “Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it”

And for the record, I do research at this wonderful place called a library. I have access to a very well appointed university library that has thousands of things called books- perhaps you have heard of this?

Wonder how she’d feel about taking a bullet for that piece of sh*t once she knew the truth about him — that he couldn’t care less about her or any other members or their well-being in any way, shape or form. Not to mention, the horrific truth about what he and his minions have done to members, ex-members and critics.

Jsook- I think that the Danny Masterson case has the most potential to actually take down Scientology- I posted in an earlier group that if someone can prove that there is probable cause to believe the church (Miscavige) knew about the crime, actively sought to hamper a witness and/or helped cover up, it could end this entire cult… I will keep my fingers crossed that the district attorney’s office will see this as a possible entrance into getting search warrants and subpoenas. If the FBI was looking for an opening to prove something, this could be it as well. If emails or other electronic communication occurred between parties (if Masterson was in a different state and sent Miscavige any potential evidence, or if a cover up went across state lines- FBI enter stage left!
We can hope…

Or even better “we lost our religious status here and even changed our sign from “church of Scientology” to “center of scientology” and ED of Saint-Petersburg org is in prison for fraud, money laundering and scams but we can still rip you of some money”

Last time when I was on course in 2018. There were 6 people in a course room. And around 3-4 in HGC. From what I read here they can say that org is booming. They even sent me a promo that they made 92 clears in 2018.

Around 1980 Diantetic Clear and Natural Clear was announced and while on the Dianetic Drug Rundown I attested to Dianetic Clear and my number was in the 8000’s. People were attesting to Dianetic Clear and Natural Clear all over the place. If Russia produced 92 Clears in 2018 then they are on fire! Just like the good old days! Homo Novus (New Man)

I’ve studied clear numbers as an indication of how Scientology is doing, starting with that old breakdown. Scientology seems to have long regarded the numbers as sacrosanct, save for some minor errors introduced due to idiosyncracies of the way they issue the numbers. They appear to have continued on since Hubbard’s death at a historic pace sometimes exceeding a thousand per year, but it’s hard to believe that with their shrinkage to probably not to many more than 10,000 public members they are actually still achieving that (and, the numbers are no longer printed publicly in The Auditor magazine to provide a check), so they may have indeed started to fudge the numbers, perhaps for instance now using new numbers (at least internally) when members are re-declared clear based on supposed earlier errors.

Scientology seems to have stopped listing specific numbers of clears after 3 decades at around 50,000 in 1996 (a decade after Hubbard’s death, in which they added another 17,000), so I think it’s safe to assume that they’ve made 60,000 or more by now, even if not quite as many as current issued numbers indicate. It shows how much churn there has been of people who have come, made it that far, and then dropped out at some point – some suggestions are, that after going “clear” a lot of people realize that that the promises aren’t really being met and it’s futile to keep on. And if current numbers are close to correct, it suggests there may be more ongoing turnover of lower-level members than we realize, perhaps among born-ins and in the places like the former Soviet Union and Taiwan where Scientology is still doing relatively well.

First, I should have been clear (!), the old lists through the mid-1980s gave not only numbers but names, which appear to show numbers being issued without gaps in sequence, and provide the check of connecting them to (presumably) real people – unlike more recent times when specifics are no longer listed.

Ida Camburn’s work that I linked to above does show that the number of clears being declared dropped suddenly in 1983, from 1340 the year before to 397 – and The Auditor had only 6 issues that covered just the first 7 months of the year, suggestive of underlying organizational turmoil. For the rest of the 1980s it was as relatively high as 410 (1985) to as low as 39 (1988), so you’re right there were a couple of very lean years. It also appears that the long-term trend may have dropped to 50 – 200 per year, for as far as her data goes.

So it seems that about the first 33,000 clears, through around 1986, can mostly be verified through their connection to individual numbers listed. After that Scientology claimed increasing total numbers of clears far in excess of the count of names listed in The Auditor, until the data stops about 2 decades later, so maybe they’ve been fudging numbers for longer than I’d realized.

Peacemaker. Nothing publicly published in the 80’s regarding clears is at all accurate. You can trash all of it. We dealt with the actual PC folders to verify each and every one. We did this in the late 80’s and went back to around ’82.
There was no year that had over 100. There were people “declared” clear every day but after going through the mill, DCSI or CCRD, most were not.

Richard, in your case (sic) have a read of HCOB 27 March 1984 C/S Series 119 Stalled Dianetic Clear Solved. Explains why you are making bitter and inane postings here. When you have (honestly) digested that, nip over to Milestone 2 website and they’ll sort you out with an auditor.

Foolproof – I’m not knocking “Clear”. It’s definitional. After some indeterminate number of hours of introspection on the past someone might get the firm subjective reality that nothing in the past need affect them negatively in the present. Eugenia above has resolved negative issues from her past which she defines as her reactive mind. I might have written something similar to what she says way back when I attested to Clear and I carry forward that point of view today.

Victor, I went from several calls a day to crickets when I made it abundantly clear that I was researching scientology on the internet. Just say things like “oh I was just watching Scientology and the Aftermath right now can you call back later?” or “I’m in the middle of posting a comment on Mike Rinder’s blog, you’ll have to wait until I finish up here.” It’s a silver bullet.

I’am trying to stay under the radar because of many reasons, plus Russian Scientologists are in their own kind of bubble. Very few ever heard of Going Clear and even less about the Aftermath. So even if I tell about it to staff members there is 90% chance that they will not understand))

Local problems of JW is a kind of same as for scn. Although they are hit much harder, scn in Russia plays much wiser than jw. Now Moscow org even pay some taxes and legally is a bunch of unrelated company’s by pure chance sitting in one building. JW were ignoring everybody and everything. But as far as I know, most of local JW congregations still functions as nothing really happened (although there preaching work is almost impossible wright now) if they are not making any fuzz. There’s a Kingdom Hall next to my grandpa retirement house and as far as I can see they are still working.

I started to do scn in 2008/2009 and there were almost the same amount of people in the org back then as it now. So scn here is not really expanding but not really shrinking at the same time. It’s kind of stable in numbers.

Mike, Can you explain how they track addresses? I have moved many times and after a ten year gap just started getting flooded with scientology bulk mail. I haven’t stepped foot in an org in ten years and haven’t given anyone an updated address.

Yes. Everything that’s a public record or connected to social media is out there for sale on the internet. Time consuming research that used to be done in various county clerk’s offices in all states regarding deeds, 1st mortgages, 2nd mortgages, bankruptcies, liens, arrests, convictions, mugshots, marriages, divorces – its all there.all there .. All of one’s addresses. current and former, all of ones phone numbers and email addresses current and former, all one’s social media usages, names of immediate family, other relatives, friends one has been in contact with via social media, one’s current neighbors, one’s former neighbors… just a few clicks and its all there, for very little money., via hundreds of companies. And they make mistakes, too, if your last name is a fairly common one. I know; I did a search on myself because I’m planning to apply for a mortgage. I came up as having had a bankruptcy in the in 1995. Not true! Someone else with my name. I almost had a heart attack. I’m a freak about my credit. Managed to get it removed from that one internet info company but what happens is it gets spidered around. To get this false data about me off the internet will entail contacting hundreds of phone calls or online actions. Or so I understand. Sigh. Hopeless. Hopefully any prospective lenders will do their own research and find that what’s out there is not true.But everything else I saw was true, Addresses, phone numbers i had back in the 80s! Amazing.

I know they got mine from the wrong information American Express had on me. When I bought a house, American Express had me at my new home’s address with my apartment number from my old location. I cancelled my Amex in 2008. That is the address scamatology used when they tracked me down in 2011. The only company who had ever used that address for me was American Express. So scamatology thinks I live in an apartment in a single family dwelling. Works for me.

You could go and get yourself declared. Write DM a nice letter outlining some desires about ending Scio’s tax free status and you want your money back, oh, & how A&E is your favorite all time TV station.

I’m not Mike, but was in CF for awhile. When they get address corrections, they update your address EVERY place they can. If you had a girl/boyfriend or sibling living with you, it’ a good guess that their address changes from a common address might also apply to you. As another said, the Interwebz has tools which can find missing people – and they’re pretty savvy.
and scientology seems to have a central database combining orgs’ CFs somewhere. I’ve ‘recently’ gotten calls from flag (where I was crew for 5 years) and AOLA, which I’ve never seen, much less stepped inside or bought anything from, though I was in LA for a couple of weeks in ’75. I guess they called me as I did declare ‘clear’ in ’78 and “should” have done some OT levels since then. Well, I’ve seen the materials online and have no interest in wasting my time and money on such “magical” stuff. AND , since I’m officially retired, WHAT money? The guy from Flog had before him my actual ‘clear’ number, which I’d misduped over the years, and he automatically confirmed me when I said the right number: 5875. I’d remembered it as 5876, because I preferred that nice tidy number with descending digits. [Hey, I’ve always been a math/science numbers sorta guy.]

Around 1980 I think my Clear number was in the 8100’s so I was already past 8008 and 8080 which would have been cool numbers and easy to remember. They probably saved those two numbers and 8888 for the big shots.

If I ever remember my exact number I definitely won’t post it. If the fools still have a numerical list with my name attached I’ll be back on the mailing list. No thank you.

I received a text message letting me know about an OSA meeting at the Ventura Mission. I was tempted to show up.

I figured something was up when I had gone to the mission the week before to dump all their mail back to them (with Aftermath cards of course). But I noticed 3 sea org members standing out front. I have never seen them here at the mission.

I do know the Ventura Idle Morgue is opening pretty soon so I’m guessing the mission will close?

Ed Parkin would disagree. lol He is now posting on Twitter than an ARMY of Aftermath ‘bots’ are attacking him and probably being paid by your PR firm. I told him he makes me laugh out loud. 41 replies to his tweet hardly makes an army. lol

50Sparks, to them, 41 IS an army compared to what they can strong-arm into action. If they understood that it was 41 individual impulses and NOT something directed by “our supreme leader”, they MIGHT get the idea that they were on the wrong side of the issues, get depressed, and drop away. (YAY!)

They have been trying to recover me too. I used Scientology tech on the comm cycle. ARC and KRC.

The auditor training worked to help this person LOOK and decide for themselves.

I let go of any expectation. Just used kindness and the truth.

I asked them if they were in Doubt. They were honest and said – yes.

I told them that they had to look at everything and decide for themselves if they think it is true or not. To maintain their own personal integrity – they had to look for themselves and not be a robot who let others decide for them.

Just LOOK. Be true to yourself.

This worked.

They asked what they shoud watch and read. I told them to watch all three seasons of Leah Remini and Mike Rinder’s show on A&E – Scientology; the Aftermath and then watch “Going Clear” on HBO and then read My Billion Year Contract, Counterfeit Dreams, Ruthless, Troublemaker, Beyond Belief, The Unbreakable Miss Lovely, A Piece of Blue Sky, Madman or Messiah, Inside Scientology, Perfectly Clear, Commodore’s Messenger, Battlefield Scientology, The Expert Witness, Shunned, Among the Scientologists, The Complex, Blown for Good, Bare Faced Messiah and Lawrence Brennan’s Affidavit on Religious Cloaking.

They are watching Leah and Mike’s Show and calling me constantly with “Oh My Fucking God” type of statements. Freaking out but I am confident they won’t be going back in to Scientology.

I think we are saving lives people.

Let’s Continue!

Thanks Mike and Leah for the show. It is an awesome tool to use to save lives. It opened the door with this “tough Scientologically Implanted Case” for them to regain some personal integrity.

OSA – you need to do the same. Think for yourself and get your self-determinism back.

No one from the church ever calls me but I would love to talk with them also. You never know who you will reach.
I got several calls from teenagers from Delphi Oregon doing a fundraiser and I talked to each of them. They always told me they weren’t a scientology school and my answer was that they use scientology technology and the school itself supports a very abusive group, the church of scientology, and that they and the Delphian Schools should stand up against the abuses. One of the boys was 14 and continued to ask me what he should read or watch to inform himself of the abuses. Of course, I always start with Leah Remini: Scientology and the Aftermath but I also include Anderson Cooper’s show 360, Scientology A History of Violence and then Counterfeit Dreams and Blown for Good, and Abuse at the Top, etc.

Mary,
I’d imagine, esp the younger generation, will be quite receptive to your kindness and honesty, even if they don’t let that show. It plants the seed in the least. But I’d also think you of all people are very impactful in sparking that initial willingness to question between your manner with people (your heart!) and how far you made it on the bridge. You speak their language and walked through it for so long, and that’s what makes you so dangerous to the cult – they KNOW it!

On New Years Eve, I was with my brother, his son, my son and his son. I’ve told part of this about how the top of scientology came up. Well we were talking about how they tried to recover me in 2011 and the hundreds of calls in a six month time period. Bear in mind, I was the only person in the group who had been in scientology.

My husband said. “The creepiest part was that they found her at my number.”

I had been out for over 30 years. My husband and I married in 2006. The number they called me on was never listed in my name.

They stalked me more than 30 years after I left in to a State I never lived in while in with a name I didn’t have when in. Then they called several hundred times in less than 6 months until I finally found someone I could convince I to leave me alone because I read the Internet.

They believe they are better than anyone and above the law. They will continue to stalk and harras others in the name of religion until they are taken down.

All the blogs and books are bullets hailing from all directions. Mike and Leah are our best loud voices. I hope to be around when the downfall occurs.

It’s like the Hotel California, you can check in anytime you like but you can never leave. They will hunt you down to ends of the earth, no matter how many times you move, or change your phone number (and have it unlisted), they will always track you down.

I was pondering the question “How Would I Get People Back?” if I were the leader of the church of scientology. All thoughts lead to hell for the church of scientology.

Make a statement such as “It has come to light that many Suppressive Persons declares were done off policy and have caused the church and its former and current members much unnecessary damage. Therefore, all Suppressive Persons declares are revoked (and this includes whisper campaigns which are nothing but covert Suppressive Person declares). We urge all family members to reunite and friendships to come back together. Refund monies that ….”

My thoughts have come to a screeching halt. The church of scientology and its leader david miscavige CANNOT COME CLEAN and CLEAN up their own acts and do a sincere mea culpa because it has nothing honest to fall back on that would keep it viable.

Didn’t the Catholic Church say something like, “Oops, sorry.” or maybe they didn’t say anything at all, and get away with a lot of damage done. The fact that in Philadelphia alone the grand jury found credible evidence of 100’s of pedophile priests and 1000’s of victims and pretty much nothing happened to the Catholic Church for its cover-up or investigations into its cover-ups and that’s just Philadelphia. Maybe I’m wrong about that but I don’t think so. I think when you’re a religion, you can get away with a lot.

The Catholic church is back in the headlines with admissions of sexual harassment of nuns – like who didn’t see That coming – and, you’re Right, they’ll get away with that, too: ‘when you’re a religion, you can get away with a lot.’

Mary, in damages, the RCs have to date paid out millions, and counting. “Oops, sorry” doesn’t cut it when lives are ruined in the name of God and Jesus. The only way to hurt our favorite cult is in the pockettbook. Miscavige obviously doesn’t care that his orgs are empty. Personally, I don’t believe he even cares about recovering people. That’s just a way to keep the Still Ins, the OT 7’s and 8’s busy. But I don’t think he gives a damn about bringing anyone in, new or recovered. I think that, barring unforseen circumstances which force him to step down, so long as enough money is coming in he’ll stick around and take the money no matter how few people come into the orgs, or, until the last one out shuts off the lights. So long as the money warrants it, he’ll stay. Just my opinion.

Perhaps an amnesty would work to get people back. Some would certainly scurry back to the cult if their declares were erased and their certificates restored. Many folks who post here would take that route and gladly pick up the cans again. Many folks believe that the troubles for scientology started with Miscavige and his abuses and ‘out-tech’. In my opinion Miscavige is the greatest thing that ever came along in scientology. He’s the catalyst for awakening for many of us that weren’t able to extract ourselves from the cult when Hubbard was running the con. Just think how many people would still be trapped in the cult if it weren’t for Miscaviage, the Finance Police, the Inspector General for Ethics, etc. All of these entities were able to shake some of us out of our delirium and allow us to break free and get our lives back. Exes and never-ins tend to bash Miscavige to no end but as far as I’m concerned I thank my lucky stars that I was able to wake up and see the scam for what it is as a result of his good work. (I don’t know her, but I think Leah Remini would agree with me on this point). Thank you David (and all the others out there slamming ‘ethics’ in in such a KSW way! You’re the best. Keep up the good work.

I doubt it, as many/most are likely UTR and know that if you TAKE the amnesty, there’s nothing saying he won’t just turn around and declare you for no reason other than needing to be ‘recovered’. I’d heard of some amnesty perhaps after the ’93 “war is over” announcement and didn’t even check to see if I’d been declared and could USE an amnesty. I didn’t know until much later that Tubby had died and only knew Miscavige as a failed OEC student in ’76, not that he’d taken over and was altering policy and tech to his little heart’s delight. Finding that out required the Interwebz. Those who now escape will be less trusting, having seen /experienced DM’s insanity. They’ll remember the “Basics” pushes and other DM projects, and know not to trust the little guy to keep his word. Then, too, they have the internet at their beck and call for the real Truth Rundown, and their friends can steer them to “Going Clear” and other blockbusters – Busting Li’l Davey’s block, that is.

I agree with most of what you say here, but if there were a scenario where Miscavige was not in the picture anymore, I could see some folks going back to the cult after an amnesty is offered up. Miscaviage won’t always be around. He’ll discard his meat sack just as the rest of us eventually will. The folks going back would be the true believers and Hubbard apologists who haven’t been able to see scientology for what it really is, a world class con. Some folks are addicted to auditing and think it actually works. Sad but true.

Mary, I think that without being able to hold people hostage – via fear of being declared and disconnected – the numbers would decline even faster. Encouraging people still in the bubble to communicate with people outside the bubble would be the end of them. Next thing you know, they’d be Googling, watching The Aftermath, reading Bare-Faced Messiah, and everything else.

Cults rely on controlling people’s thoughts by controlling their access to information, or teaching them to disbelieve the things they clearly see. Once the people in the cult begin to see other points of view it becomes apparent how crazy it all is.

Yes, I think you’re right. That’s why I had to stop because all roads lead to hell for the church if it were to “Come Clean” and just try and do good works. So they do their best to censor and own the minds of others so as not find out the truth.

Yea, one of the reasons I said all roads lead to hell for the church of scientology. There is no where to go for them but down – no matter what they do. At this point all david miscavige can do is what he is doing – raise money from the existing whales, own those still in and on services, those that are in but not doing anything and those that are Under the Radar and lie lie lie.

“It has come to light that many Suppressive Persons declares were done off policy and have caused the church and its former and current members much unnecessary damage. Therefore, all Suppressive Persons declares are revoked ”

SADLY, that’ll NEVER happen. Dwarfenführer has gotten too much pleasure declaring people and won’t do ANYthing that could be taken as his having made a mistake. Never mind that the most effective EXTERNAL threats are from those he most mistreated those ways. He CAN’T admit that he was WRONG. HIM? not a chance in his tiny little brain, (minuscule)

For DECADES, The Catholic Church PAID OFF victims of sexual abuse & some of the victims had their entire COLLEGE educations paid for after I am sure confidentiality agreements were reached. For decades Priests were transferred and all THAT did is give the Priest more opportunity to groom new “clientele”…..i.e. “fresh meat” to continue to abuse.

Our State Attorney General & his “team” after investigation had 300 Priests “credibly reported”. Sadly many of them are DEAD….buried with FULL honors of their Priesthood. Those dead Priests will face NO Justice. Two of the Priests out of the 300 “credible” were at one time assigned to OUR local Parish.

The NAMES of the abusive Priests & what Parishes they worked at were printed in our local newspaper. Well, now the “big wig” says that “Any payments to Victims will NOT come out of parishioner donated money”….BUT will come from the sale of items the Catholic Church OWNS. WELL just WHERE did “they” get the money to PURCHASE THOSE ITEMS??? You guessed it….from the Diocese donations by the SAME church members.

Saddest of the sad is that I myself as a kid & teen…knew that SOME parents didn’t even REPORT the sexual abuse of their child due to the SHAME it would bring on them & their child….imagine THAT, a Priest got away with the abuse because the PARENTS felt shame….the Priest didn’t feel ANY shame apparent.

I know of two NOW grown men who were as children, sexually assaulted by the same Priest & their families were so embarrassed by it, they refused to seek justice or even “vengeance”. They MOVED out of the area & attended another church. These two men when they were in their f20’s/30’s/40’s sought Professional Counseling to help them cope with the abuse they suffered.

…sometimes when I want to give myself a random lift, I’ll say to myself, “welp! at least you’re not sitting at day 3 on EM 25!”

Stuck on EM dating drills is the training side of the Coin From Hell – the auditing side of that coin is the third time through a sec check question with all the buttons. (paid sec check at that)

……..

what I REALLY like…. is how it’s all just drifting away. I’ve been shedding it and shedding it and shedding it… and the whole idea of that other person I was… sitting in the chair… all that crazy stuff I was doing and working for… it becomes more unreal as the time flows by.

DM decided that only perfection was acceptable on E-Meter drills, Before then, some errors were permissible on the dating drills and getting through them was quite fast.

The change made was was once a minor course into a major block on training and, more than anything else was what made GAT such a huge failure.

I have heard that GAT 2 has fixed this so that everything is easier again. No doubt DM spent a lot of time bragging about fixing a screw-up of his own creation. Can’t say for sure. I was well out the door long before GAT 2 came along.

Nope. GAT 2 EM 25 was no different than GAT 1. Same same. The only difference is that the sups actually had a tool to use to make it WAY worse. Bet I’m not the only one who got through the drill and then prayed that the Sup didn’t want to “double check” it by watching the recording and checking all the reads to ensure every single one was ‘instant’.

GAT 2 introduced the recorder, it hooks up to the meter and records it all, with sound. It’s used heavily on Instant Reads (which used to be EM 19 but GAT 2 changed the number) but I never saw it used to review reads on 25 or 21.

Thank effing christ. You figure you got it and called them all right … but with one miscalled read in hundreds looked for during the drill? *shudder.

The 2 times I did the EM-25 (track dating) drill it was a pass within the hour. The secret?
One was an old-time and class 7, the other an old-time and class 8. Both had me do eye-to-eye contact while calling off times. Eye reads coincided with needle reads.
Back then it was fun. Training and auditing and not on staff.

Exactly!! The very definition of an instant read is that it reads “reactively”, and NOT on analytical thought. I did a full query on this and even found the earliest version of the drill which had the coach simulating the reads for this very reason. The response I got was, of course, to clear my Mus.

Ha! My lovely wife and I got Non-Enturbulation orders for daring to insist that very question be answered. We pointed out that the original version of that track dating drill came from an old bulletin (ACC TRs) and they didn’t use a meter, they used a mock up with the coach simulating reads. So many lies and BS in that area. They just kept on pretending.
May the farce be with them.

The injustices Flag and management meted out to you and Anita were blatant. The goldenrod on you was stand-alone evidence – anyone with brains who read it would call for immediate investigation of the issuer and cronies.

But one key thing you DON’T ever see in Scn is solidarity with those under the cloud of HCO. ..and this got so much worse over time.

You learn early… my head rolled a fair few times in the early days… this doesn’t stick with me… what sticks… are all the times I didn’t dive in and stand up beside.

What I self-counselled myself as “diplomacy” was actually just straight up fear.

I’m still fucking mad at it on your behalf, and I know it’s because I did nothing.

Every org I was in had a couple ringers who could get you through, their needles would read only on ‘the right one” in some fashion or another, if you had decent TRs.

The sup would throw you a bone by giving you one of these guys after you spent 3 days valiantly trying on fellow non-sessionable-under-the-gun students.

Towards the end, I actually became one of those ringers. I got really good at being a PC/coach and got a ton of people through. This was handy, because when it was MY turn the sups made sure I got someone I could actually use – I didn’t need a ringer, but someone with a live needle helps. 🙂

Getting myself declared years ago (by demanding and getting a repayment) was the best way to sever ties. No efforts to recover me since. No junk mail. Nothing. Several years ago I think I got a call from Flag. I made it clear where I stood and that was the end of that. Becoming an SP was my successful action.

“LOL – I wish you could sign up to be an SP somewhere. There would be more people streaming into that line than are streaming into the mOrgs”

MarcAnon, if you TELL them you’ve been declared, they can’t know you’re lying, so likely will be dropped like a hot potato, dead-filed in that CF, which will propagate to others sooner or later. The only trouble is if you later WANT to go onto service: Proving you’re NOT declared will take some effort, particularly as I’ve heard they’re no longer compiling lists of the declared. That list would be intriguing as it’d be a list of folks who HAD been active, or at least active enough to have gotten declared formally enough to make it onto the list. AFAICT, these days only Dwarfenführer might remember who he’s ‘declared’, and only during times of awareness after sleeping the last bottle off and before he guzzles the next. . NAWWWH, I doubt he’s ever sober enough to care one way or the other. Hey! What would happen if a cop pulled him over for DUI? A: Probably nothing as he’d pull out a passle of lawyers charging the cop with religious persecution. He’d tie up that court for years with legal shenanigans until they give up in disgust.

THIRTY FIVE YEARS after I left NY Org and in my “exit interview” I wrote that the so-called tech was bullshit and clay demos were the stupidest thing I had ever heard of – Scientologist I knew from those days tracked me down on LinkedIn and actually wrote “you should come in it is not like it was when you were there”
(yeah, it is a million times worse)
if this is their big getting people back on the bridge procedure I don’t think anyone is coming back

Can you imagine you escape from Scientology and then go back so you can spend all of your money and the rest of your life remembering earlier sillier incidents?
Thankfully LinkedIn has a “rejected inappropriate” feature so I was able to respond without the Scilon seeing my email address.

RSVP for this important briefing! Learn YOUR role in planetary salvage! (Hint: bring your wallet!)

Interesting comments about Chicago, Mike. There are 10 million people in the Chicago metro, it’s the third largest city in the US, and yet Scientology has virtually zero presence there.

I suppose though, that the whales in LA and Tampa need to be kept ‘informed’ that things are happening elsewhere (when they’re not), which is why their TV ads and billboards go up in those places… not so much to bring in public, who aren’t buying it, but to make the whales think they’re doing this everywhere.

Marc, except for some Boomer college students scamology has always done poorly in the Mid-West US. And in the Bible Belt. Basically only on the leftist leaning coasts has it ever done better than horribly.

I disagree here Wynski. Scientology has done well not only on the leftist leaning coasts where SMERSH, Big Pharma, and commie pinko fags reside, it has also flourished in the Heartland. Let’s start with Montana where the Founder cut his chops as a very precocious child busting broncs and hanging out with Indians (as well as kicking some O’Brien boys asses). To this day, Scientology is flourishing in Big Sky Country. I think the Two Dot, Montana Ideal Org is in the running to win the Birthday Game this year. Later in life, the Founder settled for a time in Wichita, Kansas and the his influence is still felt there very strongly. The Wichita Ideal Org anchors the center of the country and will surely become an Advanced Org anytime now. I shouldn’t even have to mention the legend of Phoenix. Those lectures given there back in the 50s are still in such great demand that Bridge Publications can’t crank out enough ClearSound recordings to satiate the salivating masses. And in keeping with the theme of Mike’s post today, let’s not forget that the cornfields of Illinois are also flourishing since the Church of Scientology has managed to recover and rehab Alanzo as well as Marty in the god forsaken expanses of Texas. Suppressives every where should be shivering in their boots and rueing the day.

Maybe the church didn’t recover Alonzo. Maybe he had to have a guru when he left and he elected Marty to be his guru to follow, and when Marty went back to the church, Alonzo followed his ideology even though he didn’t go back to the church in the strictest sense. He may be just parroting what Marty says as he is his blind follower.

Wynski, I don’t think Scientology has ever really done very well on the East coast, which undercuts your theory.

Boston is a chronic distaster, New York has never much activity for being the biggest city in the country, the DC-Virginia-Maryland area has never had much more going on than the Founding Church because Hubbard had been there, and there’s only significant activity in Florida in the area around Flag because members flock there from elsewhere.

I think Scientology is much more of a California and West Coast phenomenon because of the culture/counter-culture unique to the region, which is not exclusively liberal – Scientology’s current membership seems to lean more conservative, if anything.

Peacemaker, Boston, NY &D.C. come to mind as some of the larger orgs in the USA at certain times. Remember, I said “better than horrible”. It is within the context of ALL OTHER US Orgs. So, yes, the East Coast has done FAR better for scientology than the Mid-West and Bible belt.

The Cult of Scientology on a recovery mission to get back those who left! And oh my! Going to write former book buyers! It is back to the Past Fast with that desperation deepening along with their millionth cup of coffee. Plus if one steps back on the twisted bridge to “ recover”, one will be folded into a pretzel with no beginning or end to their recovery monies going to cob. Mike you are Golden & you, Leah and all with Aftermath got that rancid drain
un-clogged and it is flowly mightily into the sea. Love to us All. ????

Important Quotes

If the org slumps during this transition period, don't engage in "fund raising"
or "selling postcards" or borrowing money. Just make more income with Scientology.
L Ron Hubbard From HCOPL URGENT ORG PROGRAMMING

"We own a tremendous amount of property. We own a tremendous amount of material and so forth, and it keeps growing.
But that’s not important. When buildings get important to us, for God sakes, some of you born revolutionists will you please blow up central headquarters".
L Ron Hubbard Lecture 31 Dec 1960

"Personal integrity is knowing what you know. What you know is what you know and to have the courage to know and say what you have observed".- LRH from Personal Integrity

"It is necessary to happiness of man, that he be mentally faithful to himself. Infidelity does not consist in believing, or in disbelieving; it consists of professing to believe what he does not believe." Thomas Paine

“Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.” - Martin Luther King

“The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.” - Martin Luther King

“There comes a time when silence is betrayal.” - Martin Luther King Jr.

“Communication is the universal solvent” - L Ron Hubbard

“When men yield up the privilege of thinking, the last shadow of liberty quits the horizon.” Thomas Paine

"Never be afraid to raise your voice for honesty and truth and compassion against injustice and lying and greed. If people all over the world would do this, it would change the earth." William Faulkner

"The ultimate authority must always rest with the individual's own reason and critical analysis." Dalai Lama