Dealing with BS from the State level is why my Dad jumped at the early retirement offer when it was offered. Who the heck thought that asking these kinds of questions in an non-anonymous manner was a good idea?

School district officials declined to provide a copy of the survey to the Daily Herald, saying the district bought the survey from a private company, Multi-Health Systems Inc., and the contents are proprietary business information.

The publicity person who said that with a straight face deserve some type of award and then the superintendent some type of firing for being a dumbass.

"...nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself..."

This is not a criminal case. Fifth amendment right does not apply. That being said, any student certainly has the right to call bullshiat on a survey and refuse to answer. It's just not a bill of rights issue.

Anderson's Pooper:Dealing with BS from the State level is why my Dad jumped at the early retirement offer when it was offered. Who the heck thought that asking these kinds of questions in an non-anonymous manner was a good idea?

I should say. Any survey like that I saw in school had, at best, questions on your gender and maybe racial background. Having your name on the test is just retarded.

"...nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself..."

This is not a criminal case. Fifth amendment right does not apply. That being said, any student certainly has the right to call bullshiat on a survey and refuse to answer. It's just not a bill of rights issue.

The question really is, who gets custody of the data once it is collected? Will it be available to mine by third parties (I have a feeling it will). So, yes. The teacher was right to bring up that point. Not so much that underaged drinking and sex are probably going to be documented. But the other personal medical information that can be gleaned.

I junderstand teachers and school officials concern about the childrens wefare. But it seems they should have known better than to think it would be OK to collect potentially damaging info without making sure the kids and parents were made fully aware.

The survey is part of measuring how students meet the social-emotional learning standards set by the state.

So now teachers are not only responsible for teaching to the test on math, spelling, things like that; they ALSO have to teach to a test about whether your child has developed the proper social skills and emotional bullshiat that the school district feels essential for his/her grade level?

Anderson's Pooper:Dealing with BS from the State level is why my Dad jumped at the early retirement offer when it was offered. Who the heck thought that asking these kinds of questions in an non-anonymous manner was a good idea?

One of the most intelligence-impaired species on the planet. School officials.And we put these mental midgets in charge of educating our kids,

There really needs to be a website set up. Call it "StupidSchoolBoardTricks.com"

And the internet can ridicule and shame these individuals because that's the only way the system can be fixed.

"...nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself..."

This is not a criminal case. Fifth amendment right does not apply. That being said, any student certainly has the right to call bullshiat on a survey and refuse to answer. It's just not a bill of rights issue.

From Barron's Law Dictionary:

SELF-INCRIMINATION, PRIVILEGE AGAINST the constitutional right of a person to refuse to answer questions or otherwise give testimony against himself or herself which will subject him or her to an incrimination. This right under the Fifth Amendment (often called simply PLEADING THE FIFTH) is now applicable to the states through the due process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, 378 U.S. 1,8, and is applicable in any situation, civil or criminal where the state attempts to compel incriminating testimony. (There are many caveats following this section.)

"...nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself..."

This is not a criminal case. Fifth amendment right does not apply.

The Supreme Court a long time ago expanded the use of the 5A beyond criminal cases; it basically now means any testimony under oath. The situation here is a complicated one both because they are students and because it is not clear to me what legal effect filling out the survey has under the law of that state. The 5A might apply and it might not.

My gut reaction is that the state probably has a legal right to force them to take the survey but has no legal basis for forcing them to fill it out honestly.

"...nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself..."

This is not a criminal case. Fifth amendment right does not apply. That being said, any student certainly has the right to call bullshiat on a survey and refuse to answer. It's just not a bill of rights issue.

Yet. Considering that authorities can lie to you to get evidence, the only smart move is to answer anything even remotely incriminating with "I plead the Fifth". "This is not a criminal proceeding" is to be countered with "(1) And you are able to prove that negative with 100% certainty how?, and (2) I plan to keep it that way." Considering the general chuckle-farkery of the US law enforcement apparatus and the courts' erosion of defendant rights, I would invoke the Fifth when the cops came to talk to me as the victim of a crime. It may not apply in all instances, but better to invoke it when it is not needed, than to not invoke it when it is.

by answering questions on the survey, which had each student's name printed on it.

What the hell? We used similar surveys in the district I worked for and, not only were the surveys not imprinted with students' names, but the students were specifically told to not put their names on them. The few that we got back that did have a name written on it we simply shredded without reading (and certainly not turning them over to the survey agency for inclusion).

The results were to be reviewed by school officials, including social workers, counselors and psychologists. The survey was not a diagnostic tool, but a "screener" to figure out which students might need specific help, Newkirk said.

This wasn't one of those national "state of our children" surveys they do; this was this one particular place being incredibly intrusive. "For the children's sake." Uh huh.

ArcadianRefugee:by answering questions on the survey, which had each student's name printed on it.

What the hell? We used similar surveys in the district I worked for and, not only were the surveys not imprinted with students' names, but the students were specifically told to not put their names on them. The few that we got back that did have a name written on it we simply shredded without reading (and certainly not turning them over to the survey agency for inclusion).

Indolent:FTFA: "The survey is part of measuring how students meet the social-emotional learning standards set by the state."

Social-emotional learning standards? WTF is that about?

Do you act like a normal person of your age-group. "Social" meaning you can interact with others in an appropriate manner, and "emotional" that your emotional responses are appropriate to situations. If, upon meeting a person for the first time, you scream in homicidal rage and start fling your own feces at them, yelling "I will gut you with my bare hands and then use your stomach as a cum-receptacle", you have not met the social-emotional learning standards (not even of pre-K {unless your pre-K is run by Tartars}).

It is jargon-speak for socialization, which schools are supposed to impart unto students

"...nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself..."

This is not a criminal case. Fifth amendment right does not apply. That being said, any student certainly has the right to call bullshiat on a survey and refuse to answer. It's just not a bill of rights issue.

It doesn't have to be a criminal case for the 5th to apply. SCOTUS rulings through the years have established that. For instance, it's not a "criminal case" when a police officer pulls you over while driving and demands you provide him with incriminating statements and yet you are still entitled to your 5th amendment rights.

phalamir:Indolent: FTFA: "The survey is part of measuring how students meet the social-emotional learning standards set by the state."

Social-emotional learning standards? WTF is that about?

Do you act like a normal person of your age-group. "Social" meaning you can interact with others in an appropriate manner, and "emotional" that your emotional responses are appropriate to situations. If, upon meeting a person for the first time, you scream in homicidal rage and start fling your own feces at them, yelling "I will gut you with my bare hands and then use your stomach as a cum-receptacle", you have not met the social-emotional learning standards (not even of pre-K {unless your pre-K is run by Tartars}).

It is jargon-speak for socialization, which schools are supposed to impart unto students

Yeah I know and that's fine. WTF is the state doing setting a standard for that?

taurusowner:Gyrfalcon: social-emotional learning standards set by the state.

That phrase alone is one of the biggest reasons why this nation is doomed....and that a little reset might be a great thing. "The state" has grown far too big for anyone's good.

Really? Because my N Florida rural redneck school in the 70s and 80s did this. It was called "teaching you manners", and I don't seem to recall parents being up in arms that the school wasn't Thunderdome