HAGART wrote:It wouldn't exist! It would be for all intense and purposes, be nothing.

But why does it appear the way it does? We can zoom into and out of this fractal we call the universe forever as long as there is something to perceive, and our brains are perception machines and quite good at finding something in nothing.

I don't understand what you're saying. Do you mean that if there happened to be a nuclear war today, and all life on earth was killed, that the universe would not exist? I'm not trying to prove your idea wrong, I just want to have a better understanding of it.

If you are talking to me... I never said anything about nuclear bombs.

Why does there have to be life at all in this universe? If there was no life at all ever in the universe... no such idea... not even a possibility... then it can't be perceived and there would be nobody to say that it exists.

But there is life for some reason and it is not a fluke. Perhaps this universe needs life to perceive it.I have no proof so this is not science; just philosophy and dreaming.

The bombs were just an analogy. I still don't know why you think that a bunch of rocks and gasses floating around in nothingness, would need life to keep being there.

We are infinitesimal compared to this universe, but our minds have no space. Why do we place ourselves in our bodies? Because it is convenient. There is no reason why we cannot see this universe for what it really is! Whatever it may be. Why can't our minds be as large as space itself? There is nothing stopping us. As lucid dreamers you must all agree!

Jack Reacher wrote:Its not really a discussion if you constantly change topic and never reply to my points.

You are right. I am guilty of talking too much and not listening.

Perhaps the universe does exist with or without us. It follows a certain set of rules: gravity, electro-magnetic waves, density of matter ect. It is all connected and there must be a unified field theory that can explain it all. There is a simple equation I am sure and even simple equations can become a fractal.

This universe does exist. But why does it look the way it does?

Perception (in all its forms) and physics need to come together. Quantum mechanics have hit a dead end and realize that perception of something alters the event.

(I love this thread and there is no right or wrong answer. We are not scientists and it is fun to talk.)

BUT ANYWAY THERE WERE THESE TWO CATS THAT WERE PLAYING PING PONG......

its that "through our own senses thing" if a person was color blind and that is such a simple thing then the universe would look differant and be percieved as being different. If all of the human race was colorblind then how much would this simple think affect science and what we believe?, would all color shifts used for caculations of plannets be so differant that we would have a new view of the universe?

Try thinking of LD as simply a new set of senses being used to look at a familar place and get a new perspective of reality.

Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

Peter wrote:its that "through our own senses thing" if a person was color blind and that is such a simple thing then the universe would look differant and be percieved as being different. If all of the human race was colorblind then how much would this simple think affect science and what we believe?, would all color shifts used for caculations of plannets be so differant that we would have a new view of the universe?

Try thinking of LD as simply a new set of senses being used to look at a famiilar place and get a new perspective of reality.

I didn't mean to quote the whole thing, but perception is the key. A blind person still exists and has perception and they and you and I are in the same boat of this reality.......