The guys at lolkoran feel that the text of the Qur’an is too horrible to be directly translated to lolspeak:
on a given Surah (62),
having taken away the Godifying text “Allah, the most merciful” - 14%;
the insults “God damn them - how perverted are they” - 13%;
the “prophet-speak” used in translations - “Say unto them etc.” - 27%;
the remaining 46% can be basically written as:

The guys at lolkoran feel that the text of the Qur’an is too horrible to be directly translated to lolspeak:
on a given Surah (62),
having taken away the Godifying text “Allah, the most merciful” - 14%;
the insults “God damn them - how perverted are they” - 13%;
the “prophet-speak” used in translations - “Say unto them etc.” - 27%;
the remaining 46% can be basically written as:

And why should not God have the right to torture his creation? Ah, but He does so even today before your very eyes. And who can say what is right or wrong for the Law Giver, the Creator of the universe? Obviously, not you or anyone else.

God is telling us in the Qur’an to accept the guidance He has given us, or wait for a torment that awaits those who reject their Lord, those who bring upon themselves a terrible doom.

If you worship God out of fear of His wrath, then this is sufficient for you, but if you worship God for love of Him, then this is better.

And why should not God have the right to torture his creation? Ah, but He does so even today before your very eyes. And who can say what is right or wrong for the Law Giver, the Creator of the universe? Obviously, not you or anyone else.

Then there is no need to suppose his existence.

God is telling us in the Qur’an to accept the guidance He has given us, or wait for a torment that awaits those who reject their Lord, those who bring upon themselves a terrible doom.

If your fictional god wants us to “obey or else!” he’d have the guts to tell us to our faces. “No!” says Jack. “You gotta read the book in order to understand that you’re going to burn if you don’t obey! You’ve gotta read the book . . . and then we’ll talk!”

If you worship God out of fear of His wrath, then this is sufficient for you, but if you worship God for love of Him, then this is better.

Demanding worship is a sick premise from the start. Loving a wrath-invoking god is sicker still. And advocation of such a relationship can only come from a truly compromised mindset.

And why should not God have the right to torture his creation? Ah, but He does so even today before your very eyes. And who can say what is right or wrong for the Law Giver, the Creator of the universe? Obviously, not you or anyone else.

Then there is no need to suppose his existence.

God is telling us in the Qur’an to accept the guidance He has given us, or wait for a torment that awaits those who reject their Lord, those who bring upon themselves a terrible doom.

If your fictional god wants us to “obey or else!” he’d have the guts to tell us to our faces. “No!” says Jack. “You gotta read the book in order to understand that you’re going to burn if you don’t obey! You’ve gotta read the book . . . and then we’ll talk!”

If you worship God out of fear of His wrath, then this is sufficient for you, but if you worship God for love of Him, then this is better.

Demanding worship is a sick premise from the start. Loving a wrath-invoking god is sicker still. And advocation of such a relationship can only come from a truly compromised mindset.

Be patient, and you will have it “told to your face”, its only a matter of years, months, days, hours, seconds. And when you are told to your face, even I will be a witness against you, lest you say you never knew what was coming. May God guide you.

And why should not God have the right to torture his creation? Ah, but He does so even today before your very eyes. And who can say what is right or wrong for the Law Giver, the Creator of the universe? Obviously, not you or anyone else.

Then there is no need to suppose his existence.

God is telling us in the Qur’an to accept the guidance He has given us, or wait for a torment that awaits those who reject their Lord, those who bring upon themselves a terrible doom.

If your fictional god wants us to “obey or else!” he’d have the guts to tell us to our faces. “No!” says Jack. “You gotta read the book in order to understand that you’re going to burn if you don’t obey! You’ve gotta read the book . . . and then we’ll talk!”

If you worship God out of fear of His wrath, then this is sufficient for you, but if you worship God for love of Him, then this is better.

Demanding worship is a sick premise from the start. Loving a wrath-invoking god is sicker still. And advocation of such a relationship can only come from a truly compromised mindset.

Be patient, and you will have it “told to your face”, its only a matter of years, months, days, hours, seconds. And when you are told to your face, even I will be a witness against you, lest you say you never knew what was coming. May God guide you.

Gracious, it’s the magical mystery threat! The ghost of the future points his vengeful finger. You only forgot to add a “Lo!” Do you feel all supernatural when you get all qu’ranic like that? I bet you do!

“The hands that help are better far than the lips that pray.”
— Robert G. Ingersoll

And why should not God have the right to torture his creation? Ah, but He does so even today before your very eyes. And who can say what is right or wrong for the Law Giver, the Creator of the universe? Obviously, not you or anyone else.

Then there is no need to suppose his existence.

God is telling us in the Qur’an to accept the guidance He has given us, or wait for a torment that awaits those who reject their Lord, those who bring upon themselves a terrible doom.

If your fictional god wants us to “obey or else!” he’d have the guts to tell us to our faces. “No!” says Jack. “You gotta read the book in order to understand that you’re going to burn if you don’t obey! You’ve gotta read the book . . . and then we’ll talk!”

If you worship God out of fear of His wrath, then this is sufficient for you, but if you worship God for love of Him, then this is better.

Demanding worship is a sick premise from the start. Loving a wrath-invoking god is sicker still. And advocation of such a relationship can only come from a truly compromised mindset.

Be patient, and you will have it “told to your face”, its only a matter of years, months, days, hours, seconds. And when you are told to your face, even I will be a witness against you, lest you say you never knew what was coming. May God guide you.

Gracious, it’s the magical mystery threat! The ghost of the future points his vengeful finger. You only forgot to add a “Lo!” Do you feel all supernatural when you get all qu’ranic like that? I bet you do!

No actually I don’t. Now do you get a little scared at the possibility that God is true, and that His punishment is true? Well you should.

And why should not God have the right to torture his creation? Ah, but He does so even today before your very eyes. And who can say what is right or wrong for the Law Giver, the Creator of the universe? Obviously, not you or anyone else.

Then there is no need to suppose his existence.

God is telling us in the Qur’an to accept the guidance He has given us, or wait for a torment that awaits those who reject their Lord, those who bring upon themselves a terrible doom.

If your fictional god wants us to “obey or else!” he’d have the guts to tell us to our faces. “No!” says Jack. “You gotta read the book in order to understand that you’re going to burn if you don’t obey! You’ve gotta read the book . . . and then we’ll talk!”

If you worship God out of fear of His wrath, then this is sufficient for you, but if you worship God for love of Him, then this is better.

Demanding worship is a sick premise from the start. Loving a wrath-invoking god is sicker still. And advocation of such a relationship can only come from a truly compromised mindset.

Be patient, and you will have it “told to your face”, its only a matter of years, months, days, hours, seconds. And when you are told to your face, even I will be a witness against you, lest you say you never knew what was coming. May God guide you.

Gracious, it’s the magical mystery threat! The ghost of the future points his vengeful finger. You only forgot to add a “Lo!” Do you feel all supernatural when you get all qu’ranic like that? I bet you do!

No actually I don’t. Now do you get a little scared at the possibility that God is true, and that His punishment is true? Well you should.

Zilch. Your “should” reflects a sad state of mind. In her essay “From Islam to Agnosticism,” Sakina Walsh, reflecting on the “what if,” writes:

...if I am a good person to the best of my ab ilities, what just God would say, “Not good enough?” Every faith claims that God is all-knowing and completely just. If this is the case, and I reject religion because I, with the brain God gave me, simply cannot make sense of it or find answers to my questions [from earlier in essay], how can God justly punish me for that?

She’s a young woman who asked questions and withstood brainwash into her family’s religion. Hooray for smart people. A course in comparative religion led her to comment that

none of the religions we studied felt genuine; all of them seemed convoluted and eerily similar in that they all felt like the were invented just to give support to human weakness.

The only thing that worries me is this Iron age nonsense’s influence on people less intellectually inclined than Sakina. Scripture viewed objectively reveals itself as human-made: dogmatic demands set up to protect the powerful and assure the weak. In the improbable event that a creator exists, there is no reason to expect that it would demand our belief, never mind our worship. The only hell that exists belongs to those who waste a one-time opportunity chasing invisible monsters of their own creation.

“The hands that help are better far than the lips that pray.”
— Robert G. Ingersoll

And why should not God have the right to torture his creation? Ah, but He does so even today before your very eyes. And who can say what is right or wrong for the Law Giver, the Creator of the universe? Obviously, not you or anyone else.

Then there is no need to suppose his existence.

God is telling us in the Qur’an to accept the guidance He has given us, or wait for a torment that awaits those who reject their Lord, those who bring upon themselves a terrible doom.

If your fictional god wants us to “obey or else!” he’d have the guts to tell us to our faces. “No!” says Jack. “You gotta read the book in order to understand that you’re going to burn if you don’t obey! You’ve gotta read the book . . . and then we’ll talk!”

If you worship God out of fear of His wrath, then this is sufficient for you, but if you worship God for love of Him, then this is better.

Demanding worship is a sick premise from the start. Loving a wrath-invoking god is sicker still. And advocation of such a relationship can only come from a truly compromised mindset.

Be patient, and you will have it “told to your face”, its only a matter of years, months, days, hours, seconds. And when you are told to your face, even I will be a witness against you, lest you say you never knew what was coming. May God guide you.

Gracious, it’s the magical mystery threat! The ghost of the future points his vengeful finger. You only forgot to add a “Lo!” Do you feel all supernatural when you get all qu’ranic like that? I bet you do!

No actually I don’t. Now do you get a little scared at the possibility that God is true, and that His punishment is true? Well you should.

Zilch. Your “should” reflects a sad state of mind. In her essay “From Islam to Agnosticism,” Sakina Walsh, reflecting on the “what if,” writes:

...if I am a good person to the best of my ab ilities, what just God would say, “Not good enough?” Every faith claims that God is all-knowing and completely just. If this is the case, and I reject religion because I, with the brain God gave me, simply cannot make sense of it or find answers to my questions [from earlier in essay], how can God justly punish me for that?

She’s a young woman who asked questions and withstood brainwash into her family’s religion. Hooray for smart people. A course in comparative religion led her to comment that

none of the religions we studied felt genuine; all of them seemed convoluted and eerily similar in that they all felt like the were invented just to give support to human weakness.

The only thing that worries me is this Iron age nonsense’s influence on people less intellectually inclined than Sakina. Scripture viewed objectively reveals itself as human-made: dogmatic demands set up to protect the powerful and assure the weak. In the improbable event that a creator exists, there is no reason to expect that it would demand our belief, never mind our worship. The only hell that exists belongs to those who waste a one-time opportunity chasing invisible monsters of their own creation.

Scripture viewed “objectively” reveals itself as human-made? Does it now? And I suppose you have the “objective” lens with which to reveal scripture as such? I think not.

In fact, I don’t think Sakina, or you, or any other atheist actually believe that the truth is not discernable. Sure, you may try to use the excuse that you didn’t know in front of God when you stand before Him, but you really do know better, and certainly, so does God. You can come up with every excuse in the book, but your conscience knows better.

Interestingly, the word “kafir”, literally, “one who covers up,” is used to describe people like Sakina. They pretend that nothing about God “makes sense” to their “objective minds” but the reality is they just don’t want to to accept the truth they know exists.

Now, you, and all of us, have been presented with Islam. You can accept it or make excuses for why you will not, but God knows best your intentions. If you were ignorant of the message, you could make a legitimate claim that you never knew better, but the information is at your finger tips, if only you had the sincerity to process it.

And why should not God have the right to torture his creation? Ah, but He does so even today before your very eyes. And who can say what is right or wrong for the Law Giver, the Creator of the universe? Obviously, not you or anyone else.

Then there is no need to suppose his existence.

God is telling us in the Qur’an to accept the guidance He has given us, or wait for a torment that awaits those who reject their Lord, those who bring upon themselves a terrible doom.

If your fictional god wants us to “obey or else!” he’d have the guts to tell us to our faces. “No!” says Jack. “You gotta read the book in order to understand that you’re going to burn if you don’t obey! You’ve gotta read the book . . . and then we’ll talk!”

If you worship God out of fear of His wrath, then this is sufficient for you, but if you worship God for love of Him, then this is better.

Demanding worship is a sick premise from the start. Loving a wrath-invoking god is sicker still. And advocation of such a relationship can only come from a truly compromised mindset.

Be patient, and you will have it “told to your face”, its only a matter of years, months, days, hours, seconds. And when you are told to your face, even I will be a witness against you, lest you say you never knew what was coming. May God guide you.

Gracious, it’s the magical mystery threat! The ghost of the future points his vengeful finger. You only forgot to add a “Lo!” Do you feel all supernatural when you get all qu’ranic like that? I bet you do!

No actually I don’t. Now do you get a little scared at the possibility that God is true, and that His punishment is true? Well you should.

Zilch. Your “should” reflects a sad state of mind. In her essay “From Islam to Agnosticism,” Sakina Walsh, reflecting on the “what if,” writes:

...if I am a good person to the best of my ab ilities, what just God would say, “Not good enough?” Every faith claims that God is all-knowing and completely just. If this is the case, and I reject religion because I, with the brain God gave me, simply cannot make sense of it or find answers to my questions [from earlier in essay], how can God justly punish me for that?

She’s a young woman who asked questions and withstood brainwash into her family’s religion. Hooray for smart people. A course in comparative religion led her to comment that

none of the religions we studied felt genuine; all of them seemed convoluted and eerily similar in that they all felt like the were invented just to give support to human weakness.

The only thing that worries me is this Iron age nonsense’s influence on people less intellectually inclined than Sakina. Scripture viewed objectively reveals itself as human-made: dogmatic demands set up to protect the powerful and assure the weak. In the improbable event that a creator exists, there is no reason to expect that it would demand our belief, never mind our worship. The only hell that exists belongs to those who waste a one-time opportunity chasing invisible monsters of their own creation.

Scripture viewed “objectively” reveals itself as human-made? Does it now? And I suppose you have the “objective” lens with which to reveal scripture as such? I think not.

Quotations marks around someone’s words, followed by defensive posturing, does not equal a legitimate retort.

In fact, I don’t think Sakina, or you, or any other atheist actually believe that the truth is not discernable.

I’ve observed that this is how religious people talk, so I’m not surprised at such incoherent assumptions. You’re pretending to know things about other people that are impossible to know. In this case you’d like to think that what you call a truth must be apparent to others, and if it isn’t, they’re actively rejecting it.

Sure, you may try to use the excuse that you didn’t know in front of God when you stand before Him, but you really do know better, and certainly, so does God. You can come up with every excuse in the book, but your conscience knows better.

As above.

Interestingly, the word “kafir”, literally, “one who covers up,” is used to describe people like Sakina. They pretend that nothing about God “makes sense” to their “objective minds” but the reality is they just don’t want to to accept the truth they know exists.

There you go again pretending to know things about other people that you cannot possibly know, but which your precious book dictates you must believe. I see it repeated by Christians on the forum lots. “How dare you not worship my god! Why do you reject him?” The fact that nothing about God make sense seems evident in your commentary, Jack. As an emissary for your god, you’ve rather taken on his purportedly supernatural qualities, haven’t you? You believe you know things about others that are impossible to know. “Kafir” is a word you can toss around to bolster your sense of self-godliness. It’s a lovely accusatory word, but it means nothing.

Now, you, and all of us, have been presented with Islam.

Spoken as if Islam is somehow presented as one option among other choices. Right.

You can accept it or make excuses for why you will not

Oh how the religiously arrogant love to dictate meaningless binary options to others.

but God knows best your intentions.

As god’s fear-driven emissary, that’s your memo-of-the-day, maybe of the year. My in-box is full of more important things, so let god come down and tell me himself.

If you were ignorant of the message, you could make a legitimate claim that you never knew better, but you are not ignorant.

When presented with logical contradictions, you have no recourse. All you seem to have are scriptural quotes, false intuitions, and grave instructions to accept you at your word, “and then we can talk.”

repeat indefinitelyClose the mind and read just this book.Understand that it is the only truth.Love, fear, and worship, this one god.Tell all unbelievers that they must . . .

Because it’s cruel and immoral. A human being who believes that s/he has the right to inflict torture is justly regarded as mentally sick by modern standards. If ordinary human justice is superior to that of your god, your god is worse than useless, it is a bad influence on people and should be disposed of immediately.

And why should not God have the right to torture his creation? Ah, but He does so even today before your very eyes. And who can say what is right or wrong for the Law Giver, the Creator of the universe? Obviously, not you or anyone else.

Then there is no need to suppose his existence.

God is telling us in the Qur’an to accept the guidance He has given us, or wait for a torment that awaits those who reject their Lord, those who bring upon themselves a terrible doom.

If your fictional god wants us to “obey or else!” he’d have the guts to tell us to our faces. “No!” says Jack. “You gotta read the book in order to understand that you’re going to burn if you don’t obey! You’ve gotta read the book . . . and then we’ll talk!”

If you worship God out of fear of His wrath, then this is sufficient for you, but if you worship God for love of Him, then this is better.

Demanding worship is a sick premise from the start. Loving a wrath-invoking god is sicker still. And advocation of such a relationship can only come from a truly compromised mindset.

Be patient, and you will have it “told to your face”, its only a matter of years, months, days, hours, seconds. And when you are told to your face, even I will be a witness against you, lest you say you never knew what was coming. May God guide you.

Gracious, it’s the magical mystery threat! The ghost of the future points his vengeful finger. You only forgot to add a “Lo!” Do you feel all supernatural when you get all qu’ranic like that? I bet you do!

No actually I don’t. Now do you get a little scared at the possibility that God is true, and that His punishment is true? Well you should.

Zilch. Your “should” reflects a sad state of mind. In her essay “From Islam to Agnosticism,” Sakina Walsh, reflecting on the “what if,” writes:

...if I am a good person to the best of my ab ilities, what just God would say, “Not good enough?” Every faith claims that God is all-knowing and completely just. If this is the case, and I reject religion because I, with the brain God gave me, simply cannot make sense of it or find answers to my questions [from earlier in essay], how can God justly punish me for that?

She’s a young woman who asked questions and withstood brainwash into her family’s religion. Hooray for smart people. A course in comparative religion led her to comment that

none of the religions we studied felt genuine; all of them seemed convoluted and eerily similar in that they all felt like the were invented just to give support to human weakness.

The only thing that worries me is this Iron age nonsense’s influence on people less intellectually inclined than Sakina. Scripture viewed objectively reveals itself as human-made: dogmatic demands set up to protect the powerful and assure the weak. In the improbable event that a creator exists, there is no reason to expect that it would demand our belief, never mind our worship. The only hell that exists belongs to those who waste a one-time opportunity chasing invisible monsters of their own creation.

Scripture viewed “objectively” reveals itself as human-made? Does it now? And I suppose you have the “objective” lens with which to reveal scripture as such? I think not.

Quotations marks around someone’s words, followed by defensive posturing, does not equal a legitimate retort.

In fact, I don’t think Sakina, or you, or any other atheist actually believe that the truth is not discernable.

I’ve observed that this is how religious people talk, so I’m not surprised at such incoherent assumptions. You’re pretending to know things about other people that are impossible to know. In this case you’d like to think that what you call a truth must be apparent to others, and if it isn’t, they’re actively rejecting it.

Sure, you may try to use the excuse that you didn’t know in front of God when you stand before Him, but you really do know better, and certainly, so does God. You can come up with every excuse in the book, but your conscience knows better.

As above.

Interestingly, the word “kafir”, literally, “one who covers up,” is used to describe people like Sakina. They pretend that nothing about God “makes sense” to their “objective minds” but the reality is they just don’t want to to accept the truth they know exists.

There you go again pretending to know things about other people that you cannot possibly know, but which your precious book dictates you must believe. I see it repeated by Christians on the forum lots. “How dare you not worship my god! Why do you reject him?” The fact that nothing about God make sense seems evident in your commentary, Jack. As an emissary for your god, you’ve rather taken on his purportedly supernatural qualities, haven’t you? You believe you know things about others that are impossible to know. “Kafir” is a word you can toss around to bolster your sense of self-godliness. It’s a lovely accusatory word, but it means nothing.

Now, you, and all of us, have been presented with Islam.

Spoken as if Islam is somehow presented as one option among other choices. Right.

You can accept it or make excuses for why you will not

Oh how the religiously arrogant love to dictate meaningless binary options to others.

but God knows best your intentions.

As god’s fear-driven emissary, that’s your memo-of-the-day, maybe of the year. My in-box is full of more important things, so let god come down and tell me himself.

If you were ignorant of the message, you could make a legitimate claim that you never knew better, but you are not ignorant.

When presented with logical contradictions, you have no recourse. All you seem to have are scriptural quotes, false intuitions, and grave instructions to accept you at your word, “and then we can talk.”

repeat indefinitelyClose the mind and read just this book.Understand that it is the only truth.Love, fear, and worship, this one god.Tell all unbelievers that they must . . .

Aaron,

You and I have had several arguments on this forum. If you honestly think you have won any of those, then I would say peace and leave you be. But if you feel in your heart of hearts that your arguments have been incoherent, yet you persist in making them anyway, than you know what it is to be a kafir, one who covers up the truth. You either speak the truth or make up excuses about it, pretending it doesn’t exist. I already told you, there is (MANY NAMES, BUT) ONLY ONE GOD, and this is the belief of MOST MAJOR RELIGIONS, NOT CULTS.

As to arrogance, I don’t feel I am better than you or anyone else, as God knows best the status of His servants, and only God knows what will be your state or my state at the time of death. I am only delivering a message, and the shortcommings in conveying it are mine alone. How my delivering of a message implies that I think I am better than you is a mystery to me. On the other hand, your ridiculing of my message is indeed an arrogant thing.

Once again, go back and review the posts. If you HONESTLY feel that I have been insincere and/or incoherent in my logic in any of the posts, then all the best to you. If not, then are you a kaffir? Or, will you accept the truth of what I have been saying?

And lest you say that you have no reason to be Muslim as opposed to Christian or Hindu, etc., I would say again, all of these groups of people believe in God, they only differ in practice. The only thing left is to find the truest practice of religion, and that will narrow your choices down to the monothestic way, namely Islam. Feel free to refer back to the debate I had with Bruce if you want to look at the issue more closely.

Because it’s cruel and immoral. A human being who believes that s/he has the right to inflict torture is justly regarded as mentally sick by modern standards. If ordinary human justice is superior to that of your god, your god is worse than useless, it is a bad influence on people and should be disposed of immediately.

If you concluded from my statement that human justice is more superior to Gods, you obviously have some serious misunderstandings about basic theology.

God is the one who legislates morality. He has made torture illegal for people to inflict on each other, and rightfully so, for humans can never mete out complete and proper justice, and so should not have the authority to do so. God, on the other hand, can and will torture people as He has indicated, in accordance with His divine justice and authority, which is absolute.

Now, personally speaking, like I may have said before already, I don’t see a problem with inflicting severe punishment on people for the severe things that they do. An eye for an eye, but as the Chrisian and Islamic tradition encourage, blood money, or forgiveness is better.