A 12-year-old student armed with a handgun shot and killed a math teacher and critically wounded two classmates before killing himself at his Nevada middle school on Monday shortly before classes were due to begin, police said.

Elsewhere in Nevada on Monday, a man opened fire in a Las Vegas nightclub after being denied a refund for an entry fee, killing a patron who tried to intervene, police said.

According to media reports, the suspect demanded his money back after he found Drai's After Hours, a club at Bally's Las Vegas Hotel and Casino, too small.

The club's manager and a security guard were also shot and taken to hospital, police Sgt John Sheahan said.

doesn't Nevada have some more liberal gun laws?_________________The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter
Great Britain is a republic, with a hereditary president, while the United States is a monarchy with an elective king

given that in most classrooms that the teacher will have his back turned to the students while lecturing, the obvious answer is to ban chalkboards and whiteboards. They are a menace. The teacher should have prepared electronic slides, with a copy of the slides projecting to the back wall. Then, he never has to turn to read the slides. EYES ON STUDENTS AT ALL TIMES. He can have one hand on the pointer and one hand on the drawn gun.

Problem solved._________________

wswartzendruber wrote:

Well, every group has its nutjobs, and the Second Amendment crowd is no exception.

given that in most classrooms that the teacher will have his back turned to the students while lecturing, the obvious answer is to ban chalkboards and whiteboards. They are a menace. The teacher should have prepared electronic slides, with a copy of the slides projecting to the back wall. Then, he never has to turn to read the slides. EYES ON STUDENTS AT ALL TIMES. He can have one hand on the pointer and one hand on the drawn gun.

Problem solved.

*IF* a problem is even realised. I am getting the feeling that school shootings are not viewed as a problem. Coupled with the bias environment within the US with regards to research into gun control, how can an honest debate, a constructive debate EVER be held.
also
http://editorialcartoonists.com/cartoons/HorseD/2013/HorseD20130111_low.jpg_________________The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter
Great Britain is a republic, with a hereditary president, while the United States is a monarchy with an elective king

it's already illegal for the minor to possess the handgun without permission. it's illegal for the adult to allow a minor to access the handgun without supervision. it's illegal for the minor to bring the firearm to school. it's illegal for the minor to shoot people. it's also technically illegal in some states to commit suicide. the law wasn't going to stop this kid.

whenever someone is willing to execute others and then commit suicide, gun control is a red herring. case-in-point: https://www.google.com/search?q=mid+east+bombing you can google that ANY time and there will be news of recent bombings with double digit (or worse) death tolls. they're happening every week if not daily.

it's already illegal for the minor to possess the handgun without permission. it's illegal for the adult to allow a minor to access the handgun without supervision. it's illegal for the minor to bring the firearm to school. it's illegal for the minor to shoot people. it's also technically illegal in some states to commit suicide. the law wasn't going to stop this kid.

whenever someone is willing to execute others and then commit suicide, gun control is a red herring. case-in-point: https://www.google.com/search?q=mid+east+bombing you can google that ANY time and there will be news of recent bombings with double digit (or worse) death tolls. they're happening every week if not daily.

Its illegal to own kinderEggs in the US since they "kill" children and there is import bans to significantly minimise their entry into the USA. Whats your point?_________________The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter
Great Britain is a republic, with a hereditary president, while the United States is a monarchy with an elective king

it's already illegal for the minor to possess the handgun without permission. it's illegal for the adult to allow a minor to access the handgun without supervision. it's illegal for the minor to bring the firearm to school. it's illegal for the minor to shoot people. it's also technically illegal in some states to commit suicide. the law wasn't going to stop this kid.

whenever someone is willing to execute others and then commit suicide, gun control is a red herring. case-in-point: https://www.google.com/search?q=mid+east+bombing you can google that ANY time and there will be news of recent bombings with double digit (or worse) death tolls. they're happening every week if not daily.

it's illegal to possess, but is it hard to get?_________________

wswartzendruber wrote:

Well, every group has its nutjobs, and the Second Amendment crowd is no exception.

well it would help if "they" stop blaming England for their present mistakes _________________The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter
Great Britain is a republic, with a hereditary president, while the United States is a monarchy with an elective king

indeed. Had he a weapon, it might have ended differently. But you don't like to recognize that possibility._________________Here's another unfortunate pack of mutants who ought to be penciled in for a sudden visit from the angel of death.
-- Carlin

*IF* a problem is even realised. I am getting the feeling that school shootings are not viewed as a problem. Coupled with the bias environment within the US with regards to research into gun control, how can an honest debate, a constructive debate EVER be held.

How CAN an HONEST debate occur when people refuse to recognize gun violence as a symptom and that guns aren't the actual problem. If a person abuses drugs & alcohol, that is the symptom to the underlying problem. Yes, there is a problem, but a significant part of the population wants to blame guns instead._________________Here's another unfortunate pack of mutants who ought to be penciled in for a sudden visit from the angel of death.
-- Carlin

*IF* a problem is even realised. I am getting the feeling that school shootings are not viewed as a problem. Coupled with the bias environment within the US with regards to research into gun control, how can an honest debate, a constructive debate EVER be held.

How CAN an HONEST debate occur when people refuse to recognize gun violence as a symptom and that guns aren't the actual problem. If a person abuses drugs & alcohol, that is the symptom to the underlying problem. Yes, there is a problem, but a significant part of the population wants to blame guns instead.

how can an honest debate be held in the US if the legal system has been gamed to criminalise gun related research with any gun control outcome.
When a country start putting legislation in place to bias any scientific reporting to facilitate Result to favour the one side of a debate BACKED by custodial sentences, I'm sorry but as a scientist that is quite pathetic and just brings into question alot_________________The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter
Great Britain is a republic, with a hereditary president, while the United States is a monarchy with an elective king

How can an honest debate occur when the anti-gun crowd refuses to look at the cause instead of ignoring it?_________________Here's another unfortunate pack of mutants who ought to be penciled in for a sudden visit from the angel of death.
-- Carlin

But they are... They are gagged from posting what they write if there is any hint at any form of gun control. I have covered this...

And it still doesn't change the fact a debate and scientific analysis is skewed by legislation criminalising part of it_________________The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter
Great Britain is a republic, with a hereditary president, while the United States is a monarchy with an elective king

Within the United States, I can find no correlation between the percentage of citizens who own at least one gun and the homicide rate. I therefore assert that guns do not cause violence.

facilitate. they facilitate violence.

Cars facilitate DUI accidents. Do you want to ban those as well?

if suitable unbiased researched showed it was the beat course of action sure.( Like the unbiased research that went into asbestos)
Especially since there is something like $4m in car fatalitity research to reduce it while there is $200k spent on gun fatalities just to ONLY say there is no problem_________________The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter
Great Britain is a republic, with a hereditary president, while the United States is a monarchy with an elective king

But they are... They are gagged from posting what they write if there is any hint at any form of gun control. I have covered this...

And it still doesn't change the fact a debate and scientific analysis is skewed by legislation criminalising part of it

It is completely irrelevant to the PROBLEM. That's the point you keep ignoring. Any real or imagined suppression of anti-gun studies isn't relevant._________________Here's another unfortunate pack of mutants who ought to be penciled in for a sudden visit from the angel of death.
-- Carlin

if suitable unbiased researched showed it was the beat course of action sure.( Like the unbiased research that went into asbestos)

At least now you mentioned something meaningful. Like all anti-gun proponents, you aren't concerned about the ACTUAL PROBLEM, just banning guns if you can find a study to indicate it is the "best solution." It isn't, because it fails to address the problem. When an anti-gun proponent cares to address the REAL problem, I'll consider listening. As long as they want to ban guns, they aren't even trying to address the problem._________________Here's another unfortunate pack of mutants who ought to be penciled in for a sudden visit from the angel of death.
-- Carlin

But they are... They are gagged from posting what they write if there is any hint at any form of gun control. I have covered this...

And it still doesn't change the fact a debate and scientific analysis is skewed by legislation criminalising part of it

It is completely irrelevant to the PROBLEM. That's the point you keep ignoring. Any real or imagined suppression of anti-gun studies isn't relevant.

It kind of is. How can you have a debate if one side of the information gathering has a proverbial gun to their head. I don't know if this is a new concept to you but within the scientific community all opinions and results are granted equal merit until dismissed based upon what is presented. One side is not silence under threat of incarceration based solely upon a piece of legislation bought by an interested party, except in Iran, Russia...

pjp wrote:

Naib wrote:

if suitable unbiased researched showed it was the beat course of action sure.( Like the unbiased research that went into asbestos)

At least now you mentioned something meaningful. Like all anti-gun proponents, you aren't concerned about the ACTUAL PROBLEM, just banning guns if you can find a study to indicate it is the "best solution." It isn't, because it fails to address the problem. When an anti-gun proponent cares to address the REAL problem, I'll consider listening. As long as they want to ban guns, they aren't even trying to address the problem.

strawman, I never said that. I have actually consistently mentioned the problem across multiple threads, I have equally consistently stated I am not anti-gun_________________The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter
Great Britain is a republic, with a hereditary president, while the United States is a monarchy with an elective king

*IF* a problem is even realised. I am getting the feeling that school shootings are not viewed as a problem. Coupled with the bias environment within the US with regards to research into gun control, how can an honest debate, a constructive debate EVER be held.

How CAN an HONEST debate occur when people refuse to recognize gun violence as a symptom and that guns aren't the actual problem. If a person abuses drugs & alcohol, that is the symptom to the underlying problem. Yes, there is a problem, but a significant part of the population wants to blame guns instead.

The availability of guns and the population's willingness to use them are both problems. Don't try to say that one is a problem and the other isn't.

In a fairytale world where no-one ever got into problems with each other then every man, woman and dog having a gun wouldn't be a problem. That world doesn't exist and your society is violent, unfortunately that makes for a very explosive situation.

And anyway, how do you sort out a violent society?_________________"Sex: breakfast of champions" - James Hunt