Review: ‘Game of Thrones’ – ‘Dark Wings, Dark Words’

A review of tonight’s “Game of Thrones” coming up just as soon as I forbid you to die…

“He’s a monster.” -Sansa

“Dark Wings, Dark Words” begins with Bran Stark dreaming of the first time we saw him in the series: that carefree moment – one of the last the entire Stark family had together – when he was trying to master archery. We even hear Ned’s voice for a moment, which seems fitting for a rare episode that features all of his children (plus Theon, who spent much of his childhood in Winterfell). Though they may be spread far and wide across Westeros, they have each other in common, and they also have the lessons of their father, who was a very good man and yet horrendously-equipped to be a participant in the game that the Lannisters, Tyrells and others play so masterfully.

“Dark Wings, Dark Words” isn’t exactly an hour of Stupid Ned Stark Jr., and some of Ned’s kids are in better circumstances than at the end of last season. (Arya, for instance, is out of Harrenhal and away from Tywin and the Mountain.) But most of them are prisoners in some way or other, and all of them are surrounded by people who are worldlier, wiser and more ruthless than they are.

Bran and Rickon are away from the charred ruins of Winterfell(*) with Hodor (Hodor!) and Osha to protect them, but they have no sense of what to do other than heading towards the Wall – not realizing, of course, just what a mess things are up there at the moment. And already, their convoy seems to have been taken over by the Reed siblings, Jojen and Meera, who know a whole lot more about what’s going on and where Bran needs to go next.

(*) Does the explanation that Robb received – that Theon’s men burned the place and killed everyone before escaping – track with the circumstances we saw them in at the end of last season? I remain puzzled by this. (Note: if it’s only explained in the books, please don’t tell me. In that case, I don’t care.)

Arya is loose of Harrenhal and heading towards Robb’s camp with Gendry and Hot Pie, but three kids traveling alone through the country are always going to be at the mercy of powerful men – particularly when one of those kids is among the most wanted fugitives in all the Seven Kingdoms. Arya is brave – even if her skill with a sword (particularly given her size) doesn’t match her courage – but Thoros from the Brotherhood Without Banners (the group the torturer was dropping rats into buckets about at Harrenhal last season) can basically do whatever he wants with her, especially now that the Hound has turned up and identified her.

Regardless of which side he’s really on at this point, Jon Snow still seems in way over his head as a member of Mance Rayder’s army, and Theon’s busy being tortured by captors unknown, for information he doesn’t have. Sansa has many people – Littlefinger, Shae, Tyrion, Olenna and Marge(**) – expressing an interest in protecting her, but only some of their motives are pure, and Sansa is still too young and naive to know whom she should and shouldn’t trust. Though Olenna and Marge don’t seem to mean her any harm, her tea with them is one where they seem like they’re playing the game and she’s just a tiny piece on the board, to be moved around at their whim.

(**) Our nickname winner by acclimation. Mags is dead. Long live Marge!

Of all the Stark siblings, Robb has the most control of his destiny, but his recent decisions – marrying Talisa, allowing his mother to set Jaime free, now heading to Riverrun for his grandfather’s funeral – have caused quite a bit of unrest. Where once his bannermen had unwavering support for the King in the North, now their confidence in him is shaky at best.

At one point, Catelyn tells her new daughter-in-law that this is all her fault: her family’s misfortune all stems from the broken promise she made to the seven gods about being a mother to Jon Snow if he lived through the night. And while it’s easy for a mother to think this way – especially as she’s grappling with the news of her own father’s death – I would say most of the Stark family’s misfortune can be pinned on Ned, who had a good heart and absolutely no political savvy, and seems to have passed his forthrightness-to-a-fault on to his children. (And if Cat wants to take some of the blame for the current situation, better it should be about her taking Tyrion prisoner, no?)

Again, it’s instructive to look at how the various Starks conduct themselves versus, say, the Tyrells. Sansa had no idea how to deal with Joffrey, and lived in terror of him. Even Cersei often seems at a loss for how to control the animal she raised. Marge, though, almost instantly understands how to speak to – and manipulate – the man she’s due to marry. Others think they can appease Joffrey, or bend him to their will, where Marge knows that he just wants someone who will see the world through the same sadistic eyes he uses. Her seduction of him – if you can use that word in regards to a boy who seems only interested in inflicting pain, not enjoying sex – is among the most memorable, and disturbing, scenes of this young season.

Some other thoughts on “Dark Wings, Dark Words”:

* I’m reluctant to say much about Theon’s brief appearances, because my understanding is that a lot of this material in the show pertains to things that happen a few books down the road. So even before we get to the standard warning down below, let me remind you: If something hasn’t been revealed on the show yet (whether plot, motivation, character identity, etc.), don’t so much as hint about it in your comments. Thank you very much.

* Jon Snow gets his first look at a Warg, a wildling with the power to see through the eyes of animals – which sounds much like the ability that Bran is developing. Hmm…

* In addition to several of the Stark kids, this episode offers us our first glimpse of Brienne and Jaime, still getting on each other’s nerves as they take the long walk to King’s Landing. Their climactic swordfight is a terrific bit of direction and fight choreography. Though Jaime’s supposed to be the greatest fighter in Westeros, Brienne’s taller, has a longer reach and has been in much better shape over the past months, which makes it plausible that she’d largely thrash him until some of Robb’s bannermen turn up to take them prisoner.

* Speaking of women warriors on TV, as much fun as it is to watch Dame Diana Rigg play Olenna, I kind of wish we had a time machine that could import the Rigg who played Emma Peel to play some kind of character who introduces the ways of karate chopping and bad guy flipping to the people of Westeros.

* Jeor Mormont, leader: even though Sam screwed up the one job he had by not sending the ravens, the old man still makes sure to protect him by ordering the other soldier to make sure Sam stays alive – or else.

* Hodor.

As always, I’d like to keep the book/spoiler issue as simple as possible, however difficult that may be for some to understand. We are here to discuss “Game of Thrones” AS A TV SHOW, NOT AS AN ENDLESS SERIES OF COMPARISONS TO THE BOOKS. Therefore, here’s the only rule you should remember: if your comment contains the phrase “the books” without it being immediately preceded by “I haven’t read,” then you should probably delete what you’ve written and start over. Anything even vaguely questionable will be deleted, and if you see something that I haven’t already removed, please feel free to email me. You may think you’re being clever and not giving too much away; in almost every case, you are wrong.

As usual, I’ve set up a message board discussion thread where you can do as much TV vs. books discussion as you want. And if you don’t want to go to the message boards, by all means go to one of the dozens upon dozens of sites (whether “Thrones”-specific or not) that provide a venue to discuss the books to your heart’s content. In these comments, everything book-related that has yet to come up on the TV show (plot, characters we haven’t met, motivation, etc.) is verboten.

Based on the comments to that initial review, a lot of people are having a hard time understanding this, so I will put it very simply: If people cannot stop themselves from discussing the books in the comments, then there will no longer be comment sections for these reviews. Life’s too short.

That was my take too. Far too many characters on screen and not enough time to make them all interesting. The moment a story thread began to develop, the episode was off somewhere else. I could have done without Theon and Snow and more of King’s Landing and Arya.

By: Tim

04.12.2013 @ 6:33 PM

I feel like the 1st few episodes of every season of GOT have been set-up episodes. Things happen and they are interesting, but tbhe excitement and “oh god” moments come in the middle and later episodes. I try to judge shows on their seasons now rather than individual episodes.

Martin Freeman could show up as Bilbo Baggins… or would that be weird?

By: Bill

04.08.2013 @ 2:35 AM

When the war ends, David Brent will sit on the iron throne.

By: ideemo

04.08.2013 @ 2:40 AM

Gervais should have been Thoros of Myr, dammit!

By: FXD

04.10.2013 @ 2:47 PM

Big Keith would dominate the game of thrones.

By: Mike

04.08.2013 @ 2:09 AM

About the burning of Winterfell – it’s unclear who burned it down. Easily could have been Theon’s men, after they KO-ed him, or it could be his captors, whoever they are.

By: belikemike

04.08.2013 @ 2:23 AM

I do believe who burned down Winterfell hasn’t been revealed yet. I don’t think it was the Iron Island men. Rob’s intel isn’t 100% accurate, as we’ve seen with them thinking Arya is still in King’s Landing. Another great episode!

By: Peter

04.08.2013 @ 2:55 AM

In any case, Theon certainly didn’t escape as Robb was told.

By: Teproc

04.08.2013 @ 11:36 AM

I’m pretty sure we’re not supposed to take Bolton’s info about Winterfell at face value. Basically, this is what Robb thinks happened, but he obviously doesn’t have excellent info, since he doesn’t have a clue where Theon is.

By: Darkdoug

04.08.2013 @ 12:06 PM

Pieces are set up in this episode to make me think the truth of the burning is going to be a surprise. Based on Theon’s arc last year and this, it has been withheld from the audience.
Based strictly on the show, I think Peter is on to something.

By: CJ

04.08.2013 @ 1:41 PM

The key to who is holding Theon is in the banners that Jaime comments on in the final scene. He points out Bolton’s symbol, which is the exact same thing that Theon was strapped to. So Bolton obviously has Theon, and yet they told Robb he escaped. Why?

By: Longshot7

04.09.2013 @ 1:55 AM

Thought it was pretty clear from S2 finale that the Iron Islanders burned down Winterfell. They knocked Theon out and took him with them regardless.

By: The Dude

04.09.2013 @ 3:57 AM

Longshot7- They were surrounded by Bolton’s forces, they had no way of burning Winterfell and escaping alive. So, it’s impossible that they were the ones that set the thing on fire.

Which only leaves…

By: Phoxhunter

04.09.2013 @ 6:54 PM

Reply to comment…

By: Jack Brickman

04.09.2013 @ 7:49 PM

It’s pretty obvious that Theon was strapped to a flaying cross, as the writers were careful to have Jaime point out at the end of the episode that the riders who confronted him and Brienne were holding standards that depicted a flaying cross. The flayed man is the sigil of Roose Bolton, Robb’s bannerman who told him that Theon and his men burned Winterfell.

Sounds like someone is lying to Robb, yes?

By: Doyles_Law

04.08.2013 @ 2:16 AM

Seeing Theon up on that X I couldn’t help but think of Willem Dafoe for some reason.

I’m really interested to see what happens with The Hound next. He has no loyalties or motivations aside from wanting to stay alive. He hasn’t been tormenting the countryside as his brother has been. I also feel like he wouldn’t be opposed to taking up arms against him and becoming a part of the Brotherhood Without Banners. If there’s anyone who doesn’t care about a banner, it’s Sandor Clegane.

Okay, serious question: Why is every child actor on Game of Thrones so strong (mostly impressed by Jojen and Bran actors this week) and child actors on most other shows so…tolerable (at best). Does Game of Thrones have a training camp somewhere where they breed and raise good child actors? Is this the side project of George RR Martin? Someone help me out, please.

By: Joe

04.08.2013 @ 3:18 AM

I agree about the strong child actors, except for the girl who plays Sansa. She’s really not that great.

By: nath

04.08.2013 @ 4:04 AM

“Though Jaime’s supposed to be the greatest fighter in Westeros, Brienne’s taller, has a longer reach and has been in much better shape over the past months, which makes it plausible that she’d largely thrash him until some of Robb’s bannermen turn up to take them prisoner.”

Not only that, but Jaime’s hands are still chained together.

By: Z

04.08.2013 @ 9:52 AM

…err…@NOT EXACTLY…I think you missed the not referencing the books in any way spiel.

By: sepinwall

04.08.2013 @ 10:52 AM

” think you missed the not referencing the books in any way spiel.”

And thus, Not Exactly’s comment has been deleted.

By: Illyria

04.08.2013 @ 11:52 AM

Loras is very accomplished at the joust (which is where he bested Jaime), Brienne and Jaime are both better at the mele than Loras.

By: HISLOCAL

04.08.2013 @ 12:39 PM

I think part of it is that they get actors that look a few years younger than they really are – Joffrey is 21 in real life, Bran is 14, Arya is 16, Jojen is 23, Barristan is 65 (dude could easily pass for 62).

By: HISLOCAL

04.08.2013 @ 12:41 PM

Oh, and I also wanted to point out that Loras was the best at the joust, but that was proven to be because he rode a female horse that was in heat so it distracted the opponent’s horse (that’s why The Mountain went nuts after he lost).

By: Darkdoug

04.08.2013 @ 12:49 PM

These fighting debates are bad enough on the book websites! Whatever the books might say (and IDK why a comment like Illyria’s is still up), anyone can kill anyone else, and good fighters don’t rely on their skill to beat other people except in tournaments. In the real world, the sterile conditions or level playing field don’t exist. The superior skill of a Syrio Forel or a Yoren is wiped out by the superior numbers and equipment of a handful of redshirts. Joffrey would waste the Mountain or the Hound before they ever came in arm’s reach of him with that crossbow (assuming he didn’t wet his pants and run, rather than aim & loose with any competence). Ned’s fight with Jamie was ruined by some guy losing patience and stabbing him from behind. Even in a straight-up, one-on-one duel, luck counts for a good deal, often enough to offset skill, which is why they actually used trial by combat as a thing. In addition to forcing the participants to demonstrate the courage of their convictions, by putting it up to something as chancy as hand-to-hand combat, they were giving God or the gods an opportunity to intervene on the side of the righteous.

Maybe Brienne could kick Loras’ butt, but maybe she’d have to hack her way through too many Tyrell and Lannister troops to get to him. The relative skills of her and Jamie proved irrelevant in the end when the Bolton men showed up in greater numbers.

By: OnlyHuman1073

04.08.2013 @ 2:44 PM

I remember reading a interview about how the actor who plays Joffrey is one of the nicest kids. More proof these child actors have the chops. Sansa, I think, plays her character how she is supposed to act I think. Perhaps you just don’t like the character.

The only person I don’t like for their role is Cersei. Can’t stand her acting. The scene from last year when she was proving to Littlefinger that ‘power is power’ seemed so forced, rushed, and not natural. Note, that is just one scene out of the many I do not like her in.

By: Illyria

04.08.2013 @ 4:09 PM

That’s not book spoilers… You’ve seen and heard on the show (including this very ep) that Loras is a good jouster. You also SAW Brienne beat him in the mele last season.

By: Al

04.08.2013 @ 4:40 PM

I agree with Dark Doug. As in sports, there are a lot of variables that the participants cannot control that will ultimately decide victory or defeat. Jaime had been chained up for months, fed (I assume) very little, had not time for conditioning (I wonder what the work-outs are like in Westoros). You can’t say who the best fighter is on a day to day basis (conditions, emotions, luck changes day to day), you can only say in most circumstance, all other conditions being equal, that on average this warrior will clean the slate with the other most of the time. Jordan, Lebron, they all lost at some point in their careers to inferior (on paper) opponents. But, on average they were winners.

By: Allen

04.08.2013 @ 5:34 PM

Jaime’s actually not the best swordsman in Westeros.

He specifically knows of at least three people who could beat him. Though he never names them, Barristan is likely one, and another is probably Lord Garlan Tyrell, who seems to have been excised from the show and/or combined with Loras (the fourth Tyrell sibling, Willas, also seems to have been excised, judging from this episode).

Anyway, Brienne isn’t famous, but she was the best sword fighter in Renly’s kingsguard, which included Loras.

Jaime is weakened from malnourishment and manacles, but as I recall, Brienne is supposed to be clearly his superior. In the show she has him on his knees and was only using one hand against him.

By: Matt_H

04.08.2013 @ 6:41 PM

Hey Allen, you might not be saying the words “The Books” here, but you definitely are using book knowledge here and are breaking Allen’s rules anyway. Stop!

By: velocityknown

04.08.2013 @ 6:53 PM

I would bet my finest dagger that Brienne would defeat Jamie under more fair circumstances.

By: velocityknown

04.08.2013 @ 6:54 PM

It’s made of Valyrian steel

By: Kat

04.08.2013 @ 6:57 PM

Actor who plays Jojen was Liam Neeson’s son in “Love Actually” where he was really good in.

By: Moosesarebig

04.08.2013 @ 8:01 PM

Kat – thanks for pointing that out. He seemed vaguely familiar, and I’ve been trying to figure out why. Also, I agree that he was excellent in Love Actually.

By: youngjt80

04.08.2013 @ 10:04 PM

@ONLYHUMAN1073: I’m always thrown off by the blonde hair and super dark eyebrows.

By: Arsebiscuits!

04.08.2013 @ 10:10 PM

Agree. The actor playing Joffrey is excellent; that’s textbook psychopath. I thought Joffrey might be gay (hanging for ‘degenerates’?!) but he seemed to get quite excited when Marge started talking about killing things. He could go on the pull with Patrick Bateman, I think.

By: Bill

04.08.2013 @ 10:30 PM

Where is it established that Loras regularly beats Jaime? And who is Garlan Tyrell?

By: Jim

04.09.2013 @ 1:24 AM

Isn’t the best fighter determined by a bunch of writers in modern times London???????

By: nath

04.09.2013 @ 1:27 AM

Allen, if characters “have been excised from the show”, that means they’re from the books, not the show, and you shouldn’t bring them up here.

By: Allen

04.09.2013 @ 1:42 AM

Garlan Tyrell and Willas Tyrell are the two other Tyrell siblings, though they’re extremely minor characters and I don’t think the show’s pretty much already progressed beyond the points when they had relevance.

By: Allen

04.09.2013 @ 1:44 AM

Nath: They’re on the HBO viewer’s guide for older seasons. Is that material off-limits too? I know last week someone complained about mentions of stuff in the Blu-Ray extras about the history and mythology of Westeros, so I’m not sure.

By: nath

04.09.2013 @ 2:15 AM

Huh, that’s interesting. I assume if they’re in the Viewer’s Guide then they’re part of the show’s mythology, although it would be strange for them to be described in detail and never appear. Saying they’ve been excised from the show makes it sound like you are taking their information and description from the books, though.

By: Jack Brickman

04.09.2013 @ 7:45 PM

I mean, I understand not posting spoilers and making endless comparisons to the books, but is it really a big deal to post about the Tyrell siblings? That’s neither spoilers or terribly important, and really it just provides further context and depth to non-readers who otherwise might never have known that Loras had two older brothers (as we have no idea if they’ll be included on the show or not, although I’d wager it’s not likely).

But yes, at some point Loras does mention that his brother Garlan is a better sword-fighter, but Loras is better with the lance. Given that we’ve already seen Loras bested by Brienne in a melee, it’s pretty obvious that, while he’s a great fighter, he’s a better tourney knight than anything. Jaime has a reputation for being one of the best swordsmen in Westeros, but he’s likely not as good as Loras when it comes to jousting.

By: nath

04.09.2013 @ 8:12 PM

Jack, I can’t speak for Alan, but I assume the issue he has here, and the one that seems to be the biggest point of contention and misunderstanding among commenters, is that “background information” from the books is still from the books. People forget that changes have already been made to the backstory on the show. Mentioning characters from the books to provide “backstory” may be a mistake because they may not exist at all in the show, or their roles may have been changed. You (the general you, not you specifically) may think you’re just helping viewers fill in details, when you’re really telling them about an entirely different story whose experience is different from the one being told in the show.

By: Jaxemer11

04.10.2013 @ 4:52 AM

I found Jojen to be a fascinating character. I haven’t read the books so I know nothing about him, but I am excited to see what happens with him and Bran. It seems that Bran has always had some potential to be a great character, but hasn’t really done much to this point. Hopefully that changes.

On a similar note, was anyone else surprised how much older Bran seemed? That is the problem with actors his age, I guess.

By: Not Exactly

04.10.2013 @ 7:52 AM

Sorry Alan, I didn’t give any spoilers from the books, though I guess, I used the verboten phrase of “the books”. I was just talking about Jaime’s impression of Brienne’s fighting prowess since he was the POV character in the book when he lost a fight against her. Everything I talked about his impressions was on-screen – that he was weakened by months of imprisonment and manacled when they fought.

Anything else I talked about is also on-screen – such as the fact disputing the OP that Jaime always lost to Loras in tournaments is only confirmed in book and screen that the only notable victory of Loras over Jaime was in one joust – mentioned in the show in an important context with the whole thing about Littlefinger’s knife that made Cat arrest Tyrion. Neither book or series has mentioned consistent defeats of Jaime by Loras. Loras’s particular skill at the joust is referenced often, most recently in S03E02 as the QoT derisively mentions her grandson’s skill at knocking people off horses with sticks.

Anyways, I thought I was working well within the bounds of spoiler-free comments from book readers noting how the series reflects the books. I didn’t deliver the slightest of spoilers for future events. I just talked about how the internal monologue of a character backs up an interpretation everyone – including you – had based on on-screen representation. I won’t comment on the blog anymore now. As a book-reader, apparently every insight and opinion I might have is tainted. Enjoy the series.

By: Jonas.Left

04.10.2013 @ 8:38 PM

NOT EXACTLY Sounds reasonable to me.

By: Jonas.Left

04.10.2013 @ 8:43 PM

Plenty of the spoilers some are whining about are things that posters simply didn’t notice or remember from previous episodes. It seems to me there’s an unfortunately venomous attitude towards the book readers here and frankly I think the real spoilers are coming from people who are “guessing” or “theorizing” about what will happen in future episodes, but are really just using foreknowledge to seem prescient. Personally, I don’t comment on something unless I can discuss it in a way that isn’t influenced by what I know from the books, such as my defense of Daenerys. It was tempting to point out her actions from future events but I resisted as most book readers do, and it sucks that we’re made to feel so unwelcome in this forum.

By: SlackerInc

06.08.2013 @ 7:05 AM

Jonas, it just needs to be that book readers discuss the series in their own segregated forum, I think (on AV Club a different thread; here, on the message board). On this show in particular, a very common question is “is this person sincere in wanting to help ________, or do they have a hidden agenda or will end up betraying them?”. If you already know whether someone is ultimately “good” or “bad”, I don’t know how it could be metaphysically possible for you to participate in a discussion of their characters merits or demerits. Even if you act careful to use evidence that has already been on screen, if anyone knows you are a book reader, there is more than a hint there that no later events make your case untenable.

By: Mike

04.08.2013 @ 2:19 AM

The last thing we see in Winterfell is Theon being knocked out…we don’t know what happened after that point, but I noticed a similarity between the position we see Theon in and the banners of the guys at the end

By: bbq_hax0r

04.08.2013 @ 2:26 AM

Yea the ‘X’ that Theon was tied to was eerily similar to the sigil of House Bolton. I could have swore one of the torturers had on the armor of an Iron Islander. I need to watch those scenes again.

By: Bill

04.08.2013 @ 2:26 AM

Well Bolton did say his bastard would lead a force to retake Winterfell, so I’m assuming that’s who the Iron Islanders turned Theon over to.

By: Mike

04.08.2013 @ 2:34 AM

The question becomes, why would Bolton lie about winterfell and what happened to theon?

By: Bill

04.08.2013 @ 2:46 AM

Hmmm, well Bolton wouldn’t necessarily have to be lying. He might not know exactly what happened at Winterfell.
Although the Iron Islanders destroying Winterfell doesn’t really track with what we know. I mean, if they were trying to use Theon as a bargaining chip to get to safety, destroying the castle would only jeopardize that plan. It’s all a bit murky.

By: Peter

04.08.2013 @ 3:04 AM

Winterfell definitely burned. We saw that after Bran and co left the tombs. Plus, it’s in the opening credits now.

By: Russ

04.08.2013 @ 4:34 AM

Jaime made reference to the Bolton’s banners or sigil being a flayed man. That is what is happening to Theon. The torture apparatus is “flaying” him.

By: Darkdoug

04.08.2013 @ 12:56 PM

Flaying refers to being skinned. The torture “device” that appears on the banners is merely to hold him in place, and no more part of the flaying process than the post to which a prisoner might be tied is part of the firing squad. That the Bolton’s flayed man is on such a framework is merely how the chose to display their symbol, and no more essential to the process than if the Tyrel rose was portrayed in a vase.

We have not seen Theon being flayed at all. The first thing we saw being done looked like his fingernail being ripped off, and the thing that made him spill his motivations for taking Winterfell was like a vise, being used to crush extremities.

Whether the Boltons or someone else has Theon, they have not yet come close to actually flaying him.

By: Mike

04.08.2013 @ 1:29 PM

True, but the imagery was remarkably similar…that image of Theon on the X stuck with me, and it is very similar the Bolton house sigil

By: Darkdoug

04.08.2013 @ 5:17 PM

I pretty much agree, I was just setting the record straight on flaying. The X-shaped frame is merely indicidental to the process. The Boltons probably put their prisoners on one to match the banner, and the producers probably designed the banner because it is easier for George Martin to write “flayed man” when describing the banners than it is to design one that a modern audience would recognize as a flayed man. Especially since people in this very thread don’t actually know what flaying is. I am starting to suspect there are hidden book spoilers at work, and various people are working backward from the foreknowledge of who is holding Theon, and picking out clues to reveal their deductive prowess.

By: Peter

04.08.2013 @ 11:41 PM

@darkdoug, maybe, but the last shot of Theon did make the X shape of the rack rather prominent.

By: webdiva

04.09.2013 @ 7:06 AM

I think it’s the Boltons (or at lest one Bolton, anyway) who have sniveling Theon, and I don’t think the Iron Islanders just gave him up — I suspect the Iron Islanders were attacked by the Bolton crowd and lost Theon to them, because last season they were supposed to be taking him home to the islands and his dad (remember, his sister told him not to go to Winteerfell but to go home, yes?). And that X just confirms it for me. Those Boltons who have Theon look nasty — sadistic, in fact. Should have listened to sis.

By: SlackerInc

06.08.2013 @ 7:12 AM

“I am starting to suspect there are hidden book spoilers at work, and various people are working backward from the foreknowledge of who is holding Theon, and picking out clues to reveal their deductive prowess.”

Agree, DARKDOUG, with a slight caveat. I don’t think they are so much wanting to look clever, as they have picked up that the production team behind the show has botched this whole storyline and left it hopelessly unclear for non-book readers, such that we have been scratching our heads and grumbling “WTF” ever since the S2 finale aired. And they are trying to take up the defence of the show against this criticism, and looking for any basis for doing so. They know that “well, it’s explained in the books” is a BS justification, so they try to pick out any visual cue or hint in the dialogue so as to insist that it’s all there to see if we just pay attention. But I very highly doubt they would have noticed any of these clues without the book to guide them, and I just think it was all done far too subtly and murkily from a standalone TV POV.

By: C-Man

04.08.2013 @ 2:20 AM

The guy playing Jojen Reed also played Liam Neeson’s stepson in Love Actually.

By: That Werewolf Guy

04.08.2013 @ 7:52 AM

And he is the voice of Ferb in PHINEAS & FERB!

By: allyson610

04.08.2013 @ 2:38 PM

Aw that kid was so cute. I didn’t make the connection… thanks for sharing.

By: OnlyHuman1073

04.08.2013 @ 3:45 PM

riiight! Thought he looked familiar, good catch and thanks!

By: gest

04.08.2013 @ 6:03 PM

He was also Spielberg and Jackson’s first choice for Tintin, but he had other commitments.

By: webdiva

04.09.2013 @ 7:16 AM

His name’s Thomas Sangster. I actually recognized him from some old Doctor who episodes way back in new season 3 with David Tennant (when the Doctor goes human to escape some aliens and deliberately forgets who he is), Tristan + Isolde, and a few other things. That kid is no kid anymore, but he has an unforgettable face.

By: mightyh

04.09.2013 @ 3:36 PM

Yes, hes grown a lot since Love Actually.

And was bugging me for a while where I recognized Joffrey from- he was the narrows kid in Batman

By: mightyh

04.09.2013 @ 3:37 PM

Begins

By: Hank Scorpio

04.10.2013 @ 2:53 PM

I can’t wait for Liam Neeson to appear as Jojen’s father, kill everyone in Westeros for some kind of revenge, then yell at his son to stop playing the damn drums.

By: bbq_hax0r

04.08.2013 @ 2:21 AM

I really enjoyed this episode. The scenes with Jaime/Brienne were wonderful. I’m a Jaime Lannister fan.

The Theon scenes were confusing, but I’m certain they were supposed to. It seems implausible that the Iron Islanders could escape Bolton’s bastard after thrashing Winterfell, but it looked like one of the torturers watching Theon had on the Kraken sigil of House Greyjoy, also that would make sense that Yara would have a spy in their midst’s. I’m excited to see where this goes.

By: bbq_hax0r

04.08.2013 @ 2:50 AM

After rewatching the scene I’m not sure the sigil was the Kraken. Didn’t look like Bolton’s either. Hmm.

By: Greg Grant

04.08.2013 @ 4:48 AM

Could be some kind of third force. But then wouldn’t Roose Bolton would have heard something from his Bastard about the third force? Unless the Bastard is dead, but then why bring him up and specifically say the Bastard was sent up there? If he was a nobody, they could have gone, “I sent my trusted general blah-blah.” They made it a point to say it was Roose Bolton’s Bastard, but then again, they did not bring it up again. That part interests me.

Also, upon further review, I think there were no nudity in this episode. For shame, HBO. For shame. Where is the scene of a guy getting busy with a girl as she explains to him who the guy torturing Theon really is, and to whom is he related and why he does not like Theon so much.

By: MAD PROFESSAH

04.08.2013 @ 12:18 PM

More nudity of Theon, please! Hey if he’s getting tortured they might as well go for the really sensitive bits!

LESS nudity of Joffrey, please. I can not imagine what the thinking of the producers was to have him take off his shirt.

That being said, it must be the first episode of the show where more male nipples were displayed than female nipples!

By: HISLOCAL

04.08.2013 @ 12:46 PM

LOL @ “Where is the scene of a guy getting busy with a girl as she explains to him who the guy torturing Theon really is”

It is kinda hilarious that the only “nude” scene was Joffrey of all people.

Anyways – I’m a “reader” and I think that GRRM came up with one of the greatest stories ever, but what’s great about the show is that they punch up the dialogue and make it even better. When Jaime referred to Brienne as a “dour, towheaded plank” and said he knew she wasn’t at Winterfell because he would have remembered her bonking her head on the archways, I was dying laughing.

By: Dales33

04.08.2013 @ 1:20 PM

This may only be coincidence, but Bolton’s Sigel shows a man hung up on an X shaped device, identical to the structure Theon was attached to. Would be my guess he is being held by the Flayed Men. No idea why bolton would with hold this info from Rob.

By: bbq_hax0r

04.08.2013 @ 2:41 PM

Roose Bolton was shown last episode currying favor with Karstark (who is discontent with Robb — mainly revenge for his son on Jaime), he was shown last season being annoyed with Robb about Talisa, he is possibly holding Theon (the X of the sigil Theon is attached to) and thus would be withholding information directly from Robb, his bastard may or may not have torched Winterfell, and now he is in possession of Jaime Lannister. If Bolton were to withhold that info from Robb he might go directly to Tywin/Joffrey with it or turn Jaime directly over to Karstark for revenge?

By: Tyrion

04.08.2013 @ 3:12 PM

@MAD PROFESSAH
Are you crazy? any episode featuring the dothraki in the first 2 seasons had more male nipples than women.

By: OnlyHuman1073

04.08.2013 @ 3:46 PM

Best line of the episode was from Jamie, ‘If the Iron Throne was made out of cocks Renly would have never gotten off of it.’ Or something to that effect, hilarious.

By: Dezbot

04.08.2013 @ 6:06 PM

I could watch “The Jaime and Brienne Roadshow”–would make a nice companion to “Wynn Duffy Reacts To Things”!

By: mad professah

04.08.2013 @ 8:49 PM

@TYRION yeah I forgot about the bare-chested savage Dothrakis from Season 1

By: Razorback

04.08.2013 @ 2:22 AM

Another excellent episode full of great writing and dialogue. I am about to say “the books” without violating any rule. I have read them and loved them but I don’t watch this show with them strictly in mind. Lord of the Rings prepared me for that. I am just on this ride with the show runners. I can always go read Martin’s words any time I want to experience that realm.

By: Mad Professah

04.08.2013 @ 12:13 PM

My thoughts, also Razorback. This episode was definitely better than the first, and next week looks even better.

There is something “off” about the scenes above The Wall because they have made one f my favorite characters, Jon Snow, sorta uninteresting.

I kinda thought they were going to make the wolves bigger, I always imagined them being bigger, but it’s great nonetheless.

By: Moosesarebig

04.08.2013 @ 8:19 PM

I do the same, Razorback. Love the books, love the show, and I don’t think they have to correspond 100%. Loved the episode, too. This show reminds me of the “clock test” that Bill Simmons mentioned in an old article – every time the credits show up, I cannot believe the episode is already over.

Mad Professah – agree 100% on Jon Snow, and I think you spotlighted the best parts of the episode. One of the few episodes in which Tyrion, although he’s still great, is not central to any of the best parts. Marge is blowing me away so far. Just an awesome character.

By: MAD PROFESSAH

04.08.2013 @ 8:50 PM

In case you were waiting with bated breath, I wrote up a more substantial review/response to the episode at my blog, at

Brienne (love that gal, even if she was wrong about the peasant; she’s prepared to fight but still wants to do the right thing — tricky, that) and Jaime were definitely the best part of the ep for me. That, and watching Diana Rigg calculate and calmly take the news about nasty Joffrey, as if his being a monster would require only slight adjustment of her/their plans. Ha! But I wanted more Tyrion and more Daenerys.

By: webdiva

04.09.2013 @ 7:33 AM

Oh, yeah: the direwolves *should* be bigger, but then again, the timeline moves slowly and they’re still adolescents … so they may get bigger yet.

By: SlackerInc

06.08.2013 @ 7:14 AM

Kudos, Professah, for the correct spelling of “bated”! Hardly ever see that any more.

By: leoff

04.08.2013 @ 2:25 AM

You can argue this episode advanced the plot better than the previous one. Yet I prefer last week episode. Still good, though. Natalie Dormer still doing a impressive job.

Regarding the Theon plot: it’s clear now we’re meant to be confused. It’s a matter to sit tight until the truth is out.

By: Hatfield

04.08.2013 @ 2:27 AM

Books aside, it doesn’t track because of the message that Lord Bolton brings Robb. The message claims the place was sacked and the Iron Islanders gone by the time the Bolton bastard showed up, but we know from last season that Winterfell was already under siege in the finale, with Theon raging about the man blowing the horn. Clearly we still don’t have a definitive answer.

Loved the Jaime/Brienne fight, and Thoros is a badass. I am noticing more and more how much these episodes just end, but I guess it doesn’t bother me because I’ve read the books.

Also, was Cat talking to herself before Talisa approached her?

By: JP

04.08.2013 @ 2:38 AM

Cat was talking to Talisa, saying she was afraid of the horse she was riding.

By: Greg Grant

04.08.2013 @ 4:51 AM

@JP, thank you. That part I glossed over, but thought there was a third person there. Never mind. D’oh. Although, give that Cat is, uh, troubled, it would not be impossible for her to talk to herself as she was making Not Dreamcatcher.

By: Darkdoug

04.08.2013 @ 1:03 PM

Sometimes people lie to other people. Very often middle managers tell their bosses that their subordinates have done one thing when they have not. It could be that the Bastard prematurely represented himself to his father, who passed on the truth as he believed it to Robb. It could be he inflated his son’s accomlishment to bolster the family image in the eyes of their king. It could be they are playing their own game with the Ironborn, to buy immunity from their attack on the North, and are trying to figure out if the attack on Winterfell (for all intents and purposes, the capital of the North) was part of a strategy or merely the personal goal of Theon. Maybe they are just trying to cover for their failure to save their king’s home.

Whether they have Theon or not, there are all sorts of reasons for what they say to not track with what we have seen happen, some innocent, some suspicious.

By: Greg Grant

04.08.2013 @ 2:32 AM

This was a much slower episode for me than the premiere, and even though Arya and Tyrion were in it, it still felt a little meh.

I liked the Brienne-Jaime interaction, and it was nice to see Marge/Not Boylen do her thing, along with the “Wait, are they asking these questions of Sansa to screwjob her even harder later?” intrigue.

Creepy forest children led by creepy boy who thinks Brann is the Neo of the Matrix were creepy. And why did Osha not brain the little sister and take them all out? Because the boy can calm the wolves? Zuh? I’m guessing all of this has some profound meaning to be explored, but still felt odd for now.

Speaking of odd, oh hey there redhead whose only job is to say “Jon Snow,” glad you could make it to make a demeaning observation. And glad that Mance Ryder is not a total idiot, and still suspects Jon Snow of stuff.

Regarding Theon: his men would not have burned Winterfell before escaping, because there was zero reason for them to do it. They just wanted to get out, and saw Theon as getting them stuck there. Why would they spend extra time to sack a place before escaping? That explanation Robb got made no sense. These guys are trapped, and before they leave, they spend extra time getting everything destroyed? Not entirely rational, and given that there was a giant army outside their door, why piss them off even more? They wanted to negotiate a settlement, not to cause complications before leaving.

My conclusion: whoever caught him are the ones who pillaged. But I am not sure who those people are. There was a reference to Flayed Man’s relative going North, but then nobody followed up on that with any sort of explanation. So I guess we’ll wait and see.

By: Jess Haynie

04.08.2013 @ 2:46 AM

I think you’re right about Greyjoy. We never knew for sure that it was Robb’s men around Winterfell, and the timeline felt rushed anyway for him to get an army there based on when he found out about the attack. Whoever has Theon now is who was laying siege, and the guys who were with Theon in Winterfell probably offered him up to get away.

By: bbq_hax0r

04.08.2013 @ 3:07 PM

Good comments. I loved Jaime frazzling Brienne. While he is a prisoner, you’d think he would want the same thing as Brienne, getting him safely to Casterly Rock or King’s Landing. Which makes his fight with her strange, albeit awesome.

Last season I was convinced Bolton’s Bastard sacked Winterfell, now I’m not so sure.

Yea I was a little creeped out by the Dream kids who all hang out and party in each other’s dreams?

“You’re stupid Jon Snow, stupid and young!” – everyone

By: Darkdoug

04.08.2013 @ 5:33 PM

I think Jaime’s just a self-destructive dick. That crap about killing his cousin for a distraction last season was the key. From the first episode, he has been engaged in risky & dramatic behavior, almost begging for negative attention. His comment to Catelyn in season one “There are no men like me” seems to be a clear signal that he’d rather be infamous than overlooked. Given the sheer amount of horrible shit the man has done (and that he is related to Tyrion and thus might be capable of a modicum of human decency sufficient to be appalled at himself), it might be some sort of suicide-by-cop mindset. Or he’s so detached that he’s looking for a good fight any chance he gets.

Also, if we accept the self-loathing mindset, what’s waiting for him at King’s Landing? Only the reminder of his most infamous crime, and his partner in secret shame. The relationship with Cersei is incestuous, adulterous, politically dangerous, a violation of his vow of celibacy and high treason to boot. The only way it could be worse would be if Cersei were an underage boy. And he already tried to murder one of those to keep his secret. Safety or not, what human being short of a psychopath would WANT to go back to the place where she all but rules, and he will be expected to hang around protecting her and his “nephew”?

By: webdiva

04.09.2013 @ 7:37 AM

Well, it *wasn’t* Robb’s men at Winterfell — it was Robb’s not-so-much allies who now seem to be leaning in another direction. One also wonders if Karstark isn’t now looking for the soonest opportunity to bail on Robb and the Boltons the soonest oppo to knife him in the back. Such loyalty. Feh!

By: Jess Haynie

04.08.2013 @ 2:43 AM

Bran is The Beastmaster! That poor kid has had nothing but shit since the final minutes of the first episode. I can’t wait for him to finally enioy some badassery.

I do wish they’d limited the scope a little in this episode. We got our updates on Snow, Dany, Sansa, and Tyrion last week. Would have like to spend a lot more time with Arya’s trio, Robb’s crew, and Jaime/Brienne. They definitely could’ve left the Tyrion/Shae scene for next week, and probably the stuff beyond The Wall too.

By: Hank Scorpio

04.10.2013 @ 3:00 PM

My thoughts exactly. How are we ever going to understand the true motivations of Hot Pie if we only see him for a few minutes at a time?

By: ...

04.08.2013 @ 2:47 AM

Hodor.

By: zeke

04.08.2013 @ 3:05 AM

It had to be Bolton’s bastard that sacked Winterfell. I don’t see how it could have been the Iron Islanders.

By: webdiva

04.09.2013 @ 7:38 AM

Yeah. I concur. Which makes him a nasty piece of work.

By: Andrew

04.08.2013 @ 3:40 AM

I love that they got Olenna right. She’s one of the best.

By: webdiva

04.09.2013 @ 7:39 AM

Wish they’d give her more to do, but perhaps that will come.

By: Jamestown21

04.08.2013 @ 3:45 AM

I so far think these two episodes are way too boring and slow. As one not to have read the books I am not getting pulled into the show any more. It feels like they are pushing me away and don’t want me to watch anymore. I feel like they wanted to only cater to people that have read the books and no one else which doesn’t work for television and movies. They need to cater to all of their audiences.

By: Omagus

04.08.2013 @ 4:06 AM

“I feel like they wanted to only cater to people that have read the books and no one else”
—

Do you really think this? I’m asking because that would really make no sense from the perspective of the people making the show or HBO.

I admit that today’s episode did seem a bit slow but it reminded me a lot of how The Wire used to use the first few episodes of a season to set all the pieces in motion before tying everything together beautifully later.

By: Greg Grant

04.08.2013 @ 4:42 AM

I don’t think they are just catering just to the people who read the books, because I had no freaking clue who the Sassy Grandma was, or even her name, but she explained in great detail that did not feel like exposition – even though it was – who she was, how she was related to everyone, and the family politics of the Tyrells.

The episode did feel boring to me, and I think it is because it was a little bit more fractured than the premiere, and because a lot of it did feel like setup for later exploration, and some of the scenes that were not setup, still dragged (like the Awesome Archer being awesome, we get it, we get it, he’s a good archer, thank you).

But as someone who has not read the books, and who has trouble keeping some of the names and faces straight (last week, I thought there was another guy who looked like Roose Bolton but was Not Roose Bolton, and turns out it was Roose Bolton. *sigh*), I think the show is doing a good job with that.

It’s the pacing that was problematic on this show.

It’s like they said, “Well, we got Arya, and Jaime and Brienne… hmm, yeah, lets give them Tyrion, too, and then we can get some plotting done.” Still, I trust the show to do its thing.

By: OnlyHuman1073

04.08.2013 @ 4:12 PM

I dunno, this episode was really great. Being introduced to a few more characters that were casted incredibly… I do believe they should concentrate more on each character instead of jumping around so damn much though.

By: webdiva

04.09.2013 @ 7:41 AM

Well, without giving anything away, the books are very good for one thing: they have appendices with all the characters and houses identified, which makes for a useful reference while/after watching an episode. The detailed maps help, too. I keep the books by the remote just for that.

By: Ksabatical

04.08.2013 @ 4:41 AM

Jojen definitely tells Bran he’s a warg in addition to telling him how he (Bran) can see the future.

Breanne definitely should win a sword fight with a guy in handcuffs even if he is Jamie Lannister. If the “Wynn Duffy is surprised by things” web series comes off, I’d immediately want a “Jame Lannister measures people he meets” series after. Love every time he uncovers information about someone or as he measures Breannes’ skills during their exchange.

By: BrettPoker

04.08.2013 @ 4:48 AM

Not a spoiler, but I feel this was the best episode thus far. You don’t need to have read the books to thoroughly enjoy it from start to finish. Every scene was epic and needed. I have never felt that involved in a TV episode in my life. Perfect. I guess you may need to have read the books to understand, but even though… still… perfection.

By: CJ

04.08.2013 @ 1:49 PM

Err … I appreciate the enthusiasm, but I have no idea how anyone could think this episode was the best episode of the series. It’s a very clear setup episode with some nice dialogue and solid acting, but the first couple episodes of Game of Thrones seasons will never be as good as the final few. That’s just how the show is set up.

By: OnlyHuman1073

04.08.2013 @ 4:13 PM

@ CJ. I dunno, I suppose you are correct in your thesis, but this episode was REALLY good.

By: BrettPoker

04.08.2013 @ 4:19 PM

“the first couple episodes of Game of Thrones seasons will never be as good as the final few.”

It’s only season 3. You have no idea what you’re talking about.

For the record, I’m talking about the editing, direction, etc… for how this episode was treated. Not the overall storyline which will obviously be superior during the season finale (if you’ve read the books). I stand by my statement. Best episode so far.

By: CJ

04.09.2013 @ 6:05 AM

“It’s only season 3. You have no idea what you’re talking about.”

Yes, I do know what I’m talking about. It has nothing to do with how long the show has been on the air, it has to do with how the show is inherently structured. The first few episodes set up the chess pieces, the middle ones feature rising conflict in each individual plotline, and the final few have those conflicts coming to a head. The show will always be at its best when those conflicts are coming to a head, because that’s the nature of the storytelling. GoT does a wonderful job of setting things up, and things can be very well done and interesting, but Episodes 1 and 2 of every season will always be outshone by Episode 8 and 9 of that same season.

By: webdiva

04.09.2013 @ 7:45 AM

Again, without giving anything away, I’m glad the screenwriters and weaving together events more chronologically. With that many characters, it’s a lot more helpful to do it that way than to go back to some characters after long absences and figure out that you’ve jumped back in time to catch up. I don’t care if it makes the episodes a bit choppier — it also makes it easier to keep up with what’s happening to the characters.

By: Swearin

04.08.2013 @ 6:27 AM

Is the King’s Road like the Westeros Autobahn? I find it amazing that the Hound can get from King’s Landing to some roadside inn between Harrenhal and Riverrun in a matter of days while Arya’s group stick to back roads and only make it a few miles, and Brienne & Jaime aren’t even out of the North yet.

By: Actually

04.08.2013 @ 7:03 AM

Both the books and the show are hazy with timelines. But it definitely hasn’t been just days since the Hound left King’s Landing – look at Tyrion’s healed wound which happened the night the Hound fled.

By: Actually

04.08.2013 @ 7:09 AM

Oh, and also, we don’t know how far Arya & Co. have come, or how long they’ve been travelling. And Brienne and Jaime aren’t and never have been in the North. They’re also travelling through the Riverlands. They were taken by Bolton men, who are currently garrisoning Harrenhal.

By: HISLOCAL

04.08.2013 @ 12:54 PM

The Hound is also the kind of guy to go hard charging down the Kingsroad and just kill anyone who gets in his way, whereas the kids were sneaking through the woods trying not to be seen.

By: bbq_hax0r

04.08.2013 @ 3:13 PM

I’m not so sure the oathbreaking Hound would just trudge along in open sight down the King’s Road when he is so identifiable and knows that Riverlands-North are fighting the Lannisters in that area. Hell, even his brother who was pillaging the Riverlands (and supposed to have been stationed in Harrenhal) would even spare the life of the Hound.

As for time, I don’t envision it all happening right at the same time. You have to give them so lee-way and not pretend that every scene is happening simultaneously. Although I can’t imagine Harrenhal is THAT far from King’s Landing since Tywin was able to get an army there for the Battle of Blackwater seemingly quickly.

By: bbq_hax0r

04.08.2013 @ 3:14 PM

*would not spare the life of the Hound…

By: joel

04.08.2013 @ 8:26 PM

I thought Tywin just moved his mounted cavalry in time for the Battle of Blackwater, or at least that is what it looked like. Since Tyrion decimated the invasion vanguard with Wildfire, Tywin’s faster but smaller force succeeded. Or at least that’s what I got watching it. Otherwise, yes, Harrenhal would have to be very close to King’s Landing indeed.

By: webdiva

04.09.2013 @ 7:52 AM

Since there’s no map legend indicating distance on the maps, nobody knows what the distances are supposed to be. Still, Harrenhal is a lot closer to King’s Landing than are Casterly Rock and Lannisport (they’re on or near the western coast, whereas Harrenhal is about halfway between King’s Landing and Casterly Rock but closer to the former. But your’e right: in last season’s big battle, Tyrion did much of the heavy lifting, whereas his dad’s group did the mopping-up action, as it were. Which means dad got way too much credit from Cersei and everyone else and Tyrion got way not enough. Tywin’s a nasty tight-ass about everything, it seems, including kind words, which are always free.

By: Dustin Sea Baron

04.08.2013 @ 6:43 AM

The dude who said he was sent by Yara to help Theon, was Simon from Misfits!

By: PotatoSolution

04.08.2013 @ 7:15 AM

That was a terrific analysis of Hodor’s dialogue in this episode, Alan.

When he said “Hodor”, I thought he could have meant “Hodor”, but now you’ve convinced me that what he was really saying was “Hodor”. It’s obvious to me now.

Hodor.

By: lelisa13p

04.08.2013 @ 7:34 AM

Your profundity overwhelms. :D

By: MagicHipple

04.08.2013 @ 7:21 AM

The captors of Theon are not “unknown” Alan…
Roose Bolton had told Robb he’d send his Bastard to take back Winterfeld, and since they’re into flaying people, the ista-torture makes sense.

By: NorthRemembers

04.08.2013 @ 7:20 PM

I agree. And since Robb had told Roose Bolton before Winterfell was taken from the Iron Islander men that Theon was to be ‘taken alive’ then RB has transmitted that message to his son. Staying alive does not mean not being tortured. What we need to know is why he’s being tortured and not just handed over to RB.

By: webdiva

04.09.2013 @ 7:54 AM

What makes you think Theon isn’t being tortured by a Bolton – ?

By: NorthRemembers

04.18.2013 @ 6:42 PM

@WEbDiva ‘What makes you think Theon isn’t being tortured by a Bolton?’
Sorry about the delay in replying – I’m not saying it’s _not_ *a* Bolton, Roose Bolton had sent his bastard son to take care of Theon and Winterfell. So I think it’s one of Roose Bolton’s men doing the torturing, or his bastard son, either way I’m unclear why Theon has not been handed over to Roose Bolton himself.

By: John

04.08.2013 @ 7:28 AM

Uh, Alan, Robb did not “allow” his mother to set Jaime free, at least not voluntarily. He may not have been paying attention, but you made it sound like she asked for permission and he signed off. Why do you think he’s keeping her locked up?

By: Darkdoug

04.08.2013 @ 1:17 PM

Maybe by “let” he meant “failed to anticipate/prevent” instead of “gave her permission.” In sports we say the defense “let” the other team score, even when we are not attributing that intention to them.

I agree with your interpretation of Robb’s wishes, I am just saying that we are not necessarily disagreeing with Alan.

By: John

04.08.2013 @ 7:41 AM

I thought this episode was excellent, especially compared to last week’s premiere and even more especially compared to Mad Men’s disappointing premiere that I watched first. I wasn’t overly taken in by the Jon Snow and and Theon plots, but I really liked everything else. I’ve been a bit disappointed in the past by some of the actors chosen to play new characters (especially in the cases of “Yara” and Shae), but I think the casting director really nailed the Reeds, Olenna Tyrell and Thoros of Myr. They were all better than I was expecting. And I continue to love what Natalie Dormer is doing with Margaery (is it *really* that hard to just learn how to spell her name properly?) Tyrell. She is a smooth operator. Also, I’m not a huge fan of Catelyn Stark, but I think her scene with Talisa was her best in the entire series. And we got plenty of Arya this week, which is always welcome.

By: Hank Scorpio

04.10.2013 @ 3:07 PM

Disagree completely about Mad Men, but I still think Sundays have become a strange night of television with those two shows back to back, it’s like watching baseball and then an especially violent football game – hard to switch gears like that.

By: Ryan N

04.08.2013 @ 1:31 PM

My thinking regarding the way they are handling Theon is that they are building up for some kind of big reveal about what happened in Winterfell (I haven’t read the books so I don’t really know) but it doesn’t seem to me that what actually happened in Winterfell tracks at all with what Robb was told, and the mysterious nature of Theon’s captor leads me to wonder if this is another seed of dissent within Robb’s army.

By: Darkdoug

04.08.2013 @ 1:40 PM

Anyone else glad for a respite from Daenerys? Her entire arc last year seemed to have been nothing more than a set up for her larger role in the series, and really, she is kind of tiresome. It seems like we are supposed to fall over and accept her as a protagonist because she is a moderately attractive young woman, and not judge her situation objectively at all.

She has the biggest case of entitlement of anyone short of Joffrey. She is clearly her brothers’ sister (the other brother we have never seen apparently being a rapist and still considered the better of the Mad King’s sons), and the daughter of a congenitally insane product of inbreeding, who is planning to make war as destructively as necessary, putting her people under the rule of foreign armies, all in the name of claiming her “right” to rule. She has been raised as a pampered refugee, has never set foot in the kingdom she hopes to rule, and all of her plans thus far have amounted to inflicting foreign soldiers with alien practices on the people who had the audacity to resent their fathers and brothers being murdered by an insane king. Anyone remember the high point of her relationship with Drogo, when she smiled in delight as he expressed his intention to rape his way across Westeros? And last we saw, she was making common cause with a multiple turncoat resentful old bodyguard and a banished criminal, while buying slaves from a horribly abusive institution to fight her battles for her.

Her previous experience being a queen was an utter failure as she induced her husband to indulge her whims, which led to a fight with his men, inflicting the wound that would kill him, and making it worse by subjecting him to the medical attentions of a poisoner with a grudge.

Then there was her dealing with another civilized people – leading an army of barbarians to the gates of the city, she demanded entry and succor (because letting warlike barbarians who see nothing wrong with recreational rape into your city NEVER goes wrong), and even refused to prove that she was the Mother of Dragons whom they might have been interested in helping.

It’s not even like she really accomplished anything in her own right besides being born into the right family so someone gave her dragon eggs for a wedding present. Lots of people could lead at least as well as Dani, if someone handed them a superweapon as a present.

All of this background, with the snotty, arrogant voice shrilling orders to people with actual skills, is one of the most annoying parts of the series, even when her story happens to be taking an interesting turn.

At least when they show Joffrey being an entitled little snot, we know it has ramifications for the protagonists among the Starks and with Stannis, but I think the showrunners actually want us to root for his female counterpart.

By: chas

04.08.2013 @ 1:50 PM

this is the worst analysis of dany I think anyone could ever do. especially the whole “husband to indulge her whims”. do you remember what that “whim” was?? it was to have his men stop raping women and taking them as slaves. but to instead marry them if they wanted sex. as for leading barbarians to quarth, they were invited and then after taking a journey turned away. an act which would mean certain death so yeah, I think threatening them w/ destruction was warranted.

By: jizzmo2003@yahoo.com

04.08.2013 @ 5:05 PM

She’s really hot and commands dragons. Enuff for me.

By: Darkdoug

04.08.2013 @ 5:51 PM

But that whole raping thing was endemic to the culture of the Dothraki. Who is Daenerys to judge, and impose her values on them? And it WAS responsible for the fight that killed her husband and it was the first step on a war she implored him to undertake for her family’s revenge. You think it’s horrible that the Dothraki rape people, but these are to be the instruments of her vengeance! The Dothraki are who she would bring to sack the Seven Kingdoms for the crime of seeking justice for the RAPE of Ned’s sister & Robert’s fiancee! It was an arbitrary sentimental whim, not any sort of strong moral position! If she thinks Dothraki ways are so horrible, she shouldn’t be trying to induce Drogo to invade Westeros.

And when one is invited, it is polite to prove you are, in fact, the invited party! They wanted the Mother of Dragons, and they did not want a bunch of mongol analogs raping their wives and daughters, but Daenerys refused even the standard courtesies of a guest to show them that, yes, she did have dragons. Maybe if they had pushed it too far, and demanded the dragons, she might have been justified in threatening them, but when you get down to it, her position at Quarth was “help us, for free, or die.”

Jizzmo gives the only justification that the show ever really offered for her position.

By: Jonas.Left

04.08.2013 @ 7:02 PM

A post that defends rape culture? Must be DARKDOUG.

By: Ben

04.08.2013 @ 7:07 PM

“the other brother we have never seen apparently being a rapist”

In fact, and it is not a spoiler at all because I have no idea what is the truth, it was implied that maybe this brother who captured Ned’s sister was not a rapist at all and that the sister went willingly with him, and that, in fact Robert was totally wrong and she did not love him but Dany’s brother.
And if this is true that would also solve one of the biggest mysteries of the series and you can guess which one.

By: joel

04.08.2013 @ 8:32 PM

I got the impression the *only* reason those eggs hatched was because she’s “of the dragon,” unlike her whiny brother.

Anyway, while I agree that you can construe Dany as being selfish and self-serving on some level, other than Starks that criticism characterizes EVERYONE ELSE IN THE SERIES.

By: youngjt80

04.08.2013 @ 11:14 PM

And?

By: webdiva

04.09.2013 @ 8:01 AM

@Darkdoug – good for Dany!! Any culture that glorifies rape or calls it a ‘tradition’ needs to get new traditions. They’re expendable when they hurt people, which was her point.

@Ben – I think you’re right about her loving Dany’s (other) brother.

@Joel – *I* got the impression those eggs finally hatched not so much because of Dany per se but because she put them in Khal Drogo’s funeral pyre, which burned hot enough for long enough to do the trick. And her being ‘of the dragon’ is why she didn’t burn up in the pyre.

By: joel

04.09.2013 @ 2:34 PM

That’s entirely possible, and since no one has seen a dragon in quite some time, it’s possible most people wouldn’t know that all it takes is a long, hot fire, but sort of takes all the piss out of Dany being “the mother of dragons.”

I look at it like the Stark children and their dire wolves. Their family sigil is the wolf, and dire wolves are exceedingly rare, wild creatures in the North. The idea that 1st generation dire wolves would bond with humans so readily and easily seems a bit unlikely, unless like Theon said, those children were meant to have those wolves. And Dany was meant to have those dragons.

Anyway, I’d prefer it to be some sort of mystical divine right over she just happened to figure out how to hatch the eggs.

By: Jonas.Left

04.09.2013 @ 8:41 PM

The signifigance of the eggs and how Daenerys hatches them has two aspects. One: In the world of Westeros and the free cities, dragon eggs are like dinosaur eggs, prized as natural wonders and fossiles of creatures long extinct. Despite their rarity and exotic nature they were really just beautiful rocks. Until Daenerys posessed them. She had an instant connection to them and they unlocked a hidden power in each of them. Just as Daenerys gained confidence as khaleesi, the dormant power of the eggs was awakened. Because Daenerys is of the dragon, she could not be burned and because she was of the dragon she was able to respond to and catalyze the potential as no other could have. Two: Because of her desperation and grief she was brought to a place where she was inspired to try to bring them to life again. Partly she is looking to punish the witch who killed Drogo but partly its an instinctual understanding of what she needs to do to hatch the dragons. They need the dark magic of the blood witch’s power and the Targaryen blood that courses through Daenerys herself. Jorah begs her not to. tells her its suicide and any rational person in that position would have agreed. That she throws herself into the fire not only makes it possible for the dragons to live, it signifies that she is not just another king willing to kill and send others to die in service of her ambition. It shows that she is willing to sacrifice herself, demonstrating both the boldness needed to lead and the selflessness to be worthy of leading.

By: Also

04.10.2013 @ 8:02 AM

There’s been a lot of dragon eggs. A lot of Targaryens tried to hatch them. They all failed, many catastrophically. I can’t remember how much detail has been discussed on-screen vs. books, but it’s definitely been discussed on-screen.

That Dany succeeded points to how unique she is, and what a big deal S01E10 was.

By: chas

04.08.2013 @ 1:47 PM

hopefully this doesn’t go over the line. most of the comments that reference the books seem to be about what is in the books that don’t make it to the tv screen. however I have noticed some scenes this season that weren’t in the book and have really helped development of a particular character. i’m curious to see if this was just for that reason or if there will be a divergence from the book for story reasons.

By: errorr

04.08.2013 @ 5:28 PM

From what the producers have said they are more fleshing out characters in the book an ignoring others but without changing any major plot points. They also said that GRRM sometimes says that their changes have changed how a character could be used later in the series based on how he was planning the story to go in the books. GRRM implied he was adjusting the future plot lines so that most deviations are minor. All the scenes with marge are largely absent from the books and she is mostly a background character. The marge scenes are consistent with the plot in the books but she just doesn’t say or do much on her own. The scene with Marge, Sansa, and Old Lady Redwine is I’m the book but it is silent on how much Marge is actually complicit in the Tyrell scheming.

By: sukeyna

04.08.2013 @ 10:08 PM

Please stop this! There are numerous web sites where you can go and discuss the books to your heart’s content.

By: HeySwanSong

04.08.2013 @ 1:49 PM

Of course Mags is dead… what, was she gonna survive drinking poison-glass moonshine?

Though slow, I thought this was still a solid episode. It’s still early in the season, and I feel like the dominos are almost completely set up for the rest of the season to start knocking them down.

Regarding the fate of winterfell, based on what Bolton tells Robb and what we know from last season, there is an obvious disconnect. Bolton’s bastard was definitely outside winterfell before it was burning (the horn blowing and Theon’s pregame speech), and before the iron born knocked out Theon and left. This disconnect just raises more questions surrounding winterfell and Theon, which is exactly what I think this episode was supposed to do.

By: overg

04.08.2013 @ 4:42 PM

Are we sure that was Bolton’s bastard outside Winterfell last season? We know *someone* was there, but did Theon or any of the Iron Islanders ever identify who it was?

By: Adam

04.08.2013 @ 5:12 PM

Technically no, we don’t know who it was, but I’d say it’s the safest assumption (which is a stretch, as there aren’t actually any safe assumptions in game of thrones). If not boltons men, then who?

By: Roger

04.08.2013 @ 3:43 PM

Ned didn’t teach his kids for court intrige (he hadn’t been south himself since the Rebellions a decade ago), he trained them to rule the North, something Robb and Bran showed more then reasonable aptitude at. I mean Robb is losing now but he had the lannisters running despite being outnumbered about two to one for over a season.

By: Brian

04.08.2013 @ 4:17 PM

That being said, I’m not quite sure what Robb’s plan is anymore. Is his plan to march upon King’s Landing and take over the city? That doesn’t seem that likely anymore with the Lannister/Tyrell alliance, right? I have no idea how large these armies are supposed to be, but I haven’t gotten the impression that Robb’s army is large enough to sack a fortified city.

By: Allen

04.08.2013 @ 5:14 PM

It’s also worth noting that Ned wasn’t trained in politics. He was raised to be a soldier, while his older brother was to be lord of Winterfell.

By: errorr

04.08.2013 @ 5:32 PM

I’m not sure Robb has a plan. He seems much like his Father in that he may be good at the tactical stuff required of a soldier but not the strategic thinking required of a general/king.

By: JP

04.08.2013 @ 11:14 PM

Agree with Errorr, and it goes back to one of Robb’s first conversations with Talisa last season. They’re fighting to overthrow Joffrey and expel the Lannisters, but then what?

By: prettok

04.09.2013 @ 12:43 AM

I don’t think Rob is planning on attacking Knots Landing. I believe his plan is to take over all the Lannister lands and their goldmines and use that as leverage to gain northern independence.

By: Jonas.Left

04.09.2013 @ 8:52 PM

If Robb does attack Knot’s Landing that will be one hell of a crossover!

By: Phil

04.08.2013 @ 3:52 PM

I love the way camera shots are set up in this show. For instance, when Sansa is talking to Marge and Olenna in the gardens, she’s perfectly centered under the arch behind her as she spills her guts. In a following scene where Marge comes into Joffrey’s chamber, she’s situated between two arches in his room, rather than perfectly framed. I looked at this as Sansa playing things straight down the middle like her father – honest to a fault – whereas Marge is a little skewed, a little more free to play the game.

Also, having Joffrey pointing the crossbow at her throughout that scene was great, until she finally got beside him and eventually took control of the crossbow itself (with a little stroking to boot).

By: OnlyHuman1073

04.08.2013 @ 4:21 PM

I like your analysis of the arches, very good, thanks!

By: JP

04.08.2013 @ 11:15 PM

Last week during Tyrion’s conversation with Versei, the camera was always at Tyrion’s eye level. A subtle touch but it was really well done.

By: MS

04.08.2013 @ 3:59 PM

Haha, Remember that Jaimee also had his hands tied while he was fighting.

By: Dr. Dunkenstein

04.08.2013 @ 4:00 PM

I liked the episode but I don’t think the show is doing a great job at making everything clear to people who haven’t read the books. It seems like some characters are moving very quickly and others painfully slowly.

It’s obviously a challenge in a world where we don’t have an actual sense of the geography but right now it kind of feels like this show is asking us to sort of just accept that we’re not going to have a good grasp on the world and what’s going on in it.

By: Allen

04.08.2013 @ 5:12 PM

It’s actually pretty obvious who Theon’s captors are, if you pay attention to sigils and the contents of that letter to Robb.

By: prettok

04.09.2013 @ 12:50 AM

Sometimes writers deliberately make things ambiguous because they want the audience to sympathize with the characters` confusion and terror. (Theon in this case. He has no idea where he is or what is happening to him, so why should we know?)

By: Jesse

04.09.2013 @ 1:23 AM

It’s not explicit, but I’ve seen plenty of other non-book reviews (that is to say, most of them) get it right because it’s just short of saying it outright, and it’s all there in the iconography, which is a pretty big deal in Thrones.

A casual watcher who doesn’t examine the show — the kind of viewer who never knows the names or houses and who misses bits of important dialogue — would probably not pick up on it. But they’re probably not picking up on a lot of stuff or are otherwise misinterpreting it.

By: ChromeWeasel

04.09.2013 @ 1:29 PM

@ MRBILLIAM: The family crest / symbol on Roose Bolton’s clothing is an exact match of the torture device that Theon is strapped to. I’d say that it’s an intentional giveaway. The Bolton family crest is a small detail in itself. But if you noticed it in this episode the connection is glaringly obvious.

By: Jeff

04.08.2013 @ 6:12 PM

Sounds much like? Jojen almost literally says “Bran, you are a warg.”

By: Dezbot

04.08.2013 @ 6:18 PM

Bran says he isn’t one, though. He may be something more (haven’t read beyond the first book, so I don’t know, am just guessing). Warg’s see through animal eyes, but Bran also sees the future.

By: Ronnie J Deo

04.08.2013 @ 6:20 PM

Some of the dorkier/nerdier parts of Alan’s personality are really starting to make it difficult to enjoy his reviews (much less get through them).

It’s why so many of us have turned off the podcast.

Hodor! Marge! Oy vey.

By: Jonas.Left

04.08.2013 @ 6:35 PM

How dare Alan ruin those FREE podcasts by acting and speaking as himself. As a NON-PAYING customer your entitled to certain things, and bravo to you, for showing Alan Sepinwall that you’re not going to listen anymore so long as he insists on being Alan Sepinwall. I constantly ask myself why Alan Sepinwall’s reviews are so married to the distinct voice of Alan Sepinwall. Surely no one can be foolish enough to think that readers who seek out the writings of Alan Sepinwall would want to be subjected to what Alan Sepinwall has to say. I’m much more interested in reading the essentially anonymous pointless griping of someone with nothing to say, and I thank you for providing it, RONNIE J DEO.

By: Dr. Dunkenstein

04.08.2013 @ 6:35 PM

Don’t listen to him Alan. Let your dork flag fly! Hodor!

By: Hodor

04.08.2013 @ 7:06 PM

Hodor?

Hodor.

Hodor….Hodor.

Hodor!

By: Pod

04.09.2013 @ 3:17 AM

I concur with Hodor.

By: Dezbot

04.09.2013 @ 2:47 PM

How can anyone not Hodor the “Hodor!”? I mean, seriously, Hodor.

By: Rolando Blackman

04.09.2013 @ 9:59 PM

Agree with Ronnie on this point. And the podcast is just brutal– except for the parts where Dan yells at Alan

By: Dr. Dunkenstein

04.08.2013 @ 6:40 PM

Also, does anyone else sort of feel as though Joffrey is kind of a drag on the show? He’s not a compelling villain, unless a complete and total lack of anything resembling competence or a redeeming quality compels you, and it seems as though every scene he’s in is just an opportunity for him to be lousy in some way.

We get it, the king’s a dick. Unless something changes about his dickishness I really wish there weren’t so many scenes of a) him being a dick or b) people talking about him being a dick.

By: OnlyHuman1073

04.08.2013 @ 7:20 PM

I think him being a dick is pretty entertaining.

By: Dr. Dunkenstein

04.08.2013 @ 9:11 PM

Eh. The first few times, I suppose.

By: Hank Scorpio

04.10.2013 @ 3:22 PM

I’m hoping for a Viserys-like ending for him. I can’t imagine him being on that throne through season 8 – unless he undergoes a massive transformation.

By: Rasmus

04.08.2013 @ 9:02 PM

Didn’t see this mentioned anywhere, so I’ll just point it out for completeness sake:

Thoros of Myr is the same man Ned ordered to capture the Mountain back in season 1, in one of his last acts as Hand of the King.

The actor’s been replaced since then.

By: W.A.Wilson

04.08.2013 @ 9:56 PM

He’s also the same guy that Jaime discusses with Barristan when he is discussing the Greyjoy rebellion. He talks about Thoros’ flaming sword

By: prettok

04.09.2013 @ 12:56 AM

Not Barristan. In season one Jaime talks about Thoros of Myr and his flaming sword with Ned`s sidekick Jory while they are waiting outside King Roberts chamber.

By: Jesse

04.09.2013 @ 1:34 AM

The one who Ned ordered to capture the Mountain is actually Beric Dondarrion, who hasn’t appeared since season 1 but has been in most of the season 3 trailers, promotional materials, and behind-the-scenes deals.

Thoros was mentioned by Jaime as Prettok mentioned, and I think may have been mentioned other times. For sure in the Blu-Ray extras about the history of Westeros. Which, by the way, are not required viewing but are definitely worth checking out for any dedicated fan (they can be found on youtube). They offer a lot of the world building that in the books is handled through internal monologues, which naturally don’t work on a show.

By: dbmurph22

04.08.2013 @ 11:11 PM

I enjoyed the episode and the different moments such as Jaime/Brienne, the Brotherhood, the Crossbow scene. It was enjoyable and well done. As a whole though it was slightly unfulfilling mainly because of the normal Thrones feeling of having so many people to follow in an episode and episodes that don’t really stand on their own. Usually that’s a minor quibble, but it seemed a little more pronouned in this one, even though many will just dimiss it with the term “setup episode.” Still enjoying the show immensely though.

By: Drake

04.08.2013 @ 11:38 PM

Whatever happened to Great Jon, the lord who was a general in Robb’s army? You know the guy who got his fingers bit off by Grey Wind and was the first one to call Robb King of the North? Did he die and I forgot about it, or is he just off leading other parts of the army? Or did the actor simply have something else to work on?

By: prettok

04.09.2013 @ 1:00 AM

I think the actor is on another series. The character isn’t really essential (except for when he declares Robb king of the north), so he has been replaced by other bearded northern lords.

By: Allen

04.09.2013 @ 1:36 AM

The actor had scheduling issues after the first season so they stopped featuring the character. I think he actually had a short scene in season 2 that reused footage and audio from an earlier appearance.

By: Pod

04.09.2013 @ 3:20 AM

He also got his ear bitten off, he might not have been in the best shape for acting.

By: odessasteps

04.09.2013 @ 12:35 AM

Hooray for Diana Rigg. Game of Thrones and Doctor Who in a few weeks.

Regaining her nerd cred from the Avengers, OHMSS and Theatre of Blood.

By: Sareeta

04.09.2013 @ 12:45 AM

I am really happy to see Bran in the company of the Reeds. As much as he’s gone through, it’s good that he has some kids closer to his age.

The scene with Catelyn confiding in Talissa about Jon Snow was a cool scene that helped tie together all of the surviving Stark’s stories. Can’t help but think how everyone would probably still be alive and together if not for Bran spotting Jaime and Cersei in the pilot.

I didn’t get much out of the Jon Snow and Robb scenes, other than our first look at a full-fledged warg; I feel like they could’ve just given more time to Arya, Bran, and Brienne & Jaime. Still, I am glad they have chosen to break up the characters over the course of the season.

Brienne & Jaime fight was actually pretty evenly matched. Jaime is supposed to be one of the greatest fighters in the realm; having him handicapped with his hands tied together evened it out.

Thoros of Myr is yet another awesome addition to the cast.

FYI, maybe I’m a horrible person, but I was glad to see Theon being tortured after what he did at Winterfell.

By: Pod

04.09.2013 @ 3:21 AM

Nah, Ned was doomed. He was getting to the bottom of the Jon Arryn murder anyway, and he would have still confronted Cersei.

By: Ramsay

04.09.2013 @ 2:41 AM

Anyone else notice that the sigil of house Bolton looks exactly like the torture device Theon is in?

By: Guesser

04.09.2013 @ 5:29 AM

Disagree with one of Alan’s points – I found the sword fight between Brienne and Jaime to be pretty poor choreography. Jamie’s flipping the sword back and forth between his chained hands was great as was his commentary and withering “See? You should’ve killed the traveler earlier” glance. But the actual fight sequence looked like two actors unfamiliar with blades. Either use stuntmen/women or give the actors the “300” treatment and toss them into weapons training.

By: valerio

04.09.2013 @ 10:56 AM

I just want to know where Varys is

By: Chesterfield

04.09.2013 @ 2:53 PM

Hi, Alan, I just want to make sure you have seen this. I was wondering if there were any funny Stupid Ned Stark memes out there, and I ran into this one. I laughed for a solid ten minutes.

Does anyone else think Arya might have been playing down her swordsmanship when she let Thoros disarm her so quickly? I know she’s young and relatively inexperienced, but I thought she might’ve been able to put up more of a fight. But if she was hustling Thoros, so to speak, then he’d see her as harmless.

By: Sareeta

04.09.2013 @ 10:25 PM

No. We really haven’t seen Arya show her skills in the show, which is disappointing. I might be mistaken, but isn’t the only person she’s killed that boy in season one who she accidentally stabbed?

By: OnlyHuman1073

04.10.2013 @ 3:30 PM

Not only was she not using the type of sword that she practiced with (pretty much a fencing sword), but the guy out weighs her and has much stronger arms and was easily able to disarm her because of that fact. She COULD have been playing though…

By: Jaxemer11

04.10.2013 @ 4:46 AM

It didn’t seem like much happened in this episode, but that is kind of alright with me actually. The delay in any action or intrigue has the effect of ramping up the anticipation. The downside is that the season is so short and the episodes fly by. I am always left wanting more.

By: Hank Scorpio

04.10.2013 @ 3:29 PM

Agree, I like all the movement of different chess pieces a la The Wire. In a way, the entire series is like one season of other serialized shows. It’s all going to depend on the ending, however, as the Dany plot wends its way to Westeros (hopefully).

By: Resigned

04.10.2013 @ 8:09 AM

I honestly think this is a series of reviews that should have no comment threads. I’ve offended people by discussing book points I didn’t think were remotely spoilers – and I HATE spoilers and endeavour to avoid them assiduously – and have too often seen comments from book readers which were intentionally major spoilers just to anger people, a la…

(major Book 6 Harry Potter spoiler follows, it’s been years since it came up, but just saying)

…. “Snape kills Dumbledore” in the weeks after Half-Blood Prince was released.

This may just be a series which is too spoiler-prone, for not just the “Snape kills Dumbledore” a-holes that Alan needs to get alerted to and delete, but the subtle spoilers, the worry about spoilers for people who haven’t seen the whole series yet (I still talk to people and try to pretend Sean Bean is an on-going major star)… it just may not be the right series for a Sepinwall comment thread.

By: OnlyHuman1073

04.10.2013 @ 3:28 PM

It’s not ONLY spoilers they are worried about here, but you are right, if you can’t FITFO, just stop commenting at all, or go to the thread Alan has made for the book readers.

By: Hank Scorpio

04.10.2013 @ 3:32 PM

I really wish Dan would do an experts review – just to give these spoiler people another thread. The message board is just not popular enough.

By: Jonas.Left

04.10.2013 @ 8:29 PM

You’ll just have to deal with the fact that the people who read the books are better than you. We can’t help it. Seriously though, plenty of the spoilers some are whining about are things that posters simply didn’t notice or remember from previous episodes. It seems to me there’s an unfortunately venomous attitude towards the book readers here and frankly I think the real spoilers are coming from people who are “guessing” or “theorizing” about what will happen in future episodes, but are really just using foreknowledge to seem prescient. Personally, I don’t comment on something unless I can discuss it in a way that isn’t influenced by what I know from the books, such as my defense of Daenerys on the first page of comments. It was tempting to point out her actions from future events but I resisted as most book readers do, and it sucks that we’re made to feel so unwelcome in this forum.

By: OnlyHuman1073

04.10.2013 @ 9:06 PM

I am a book reader, and I do not have a hard time at all picking what threads and what to say to comment on them.