Outside The Box

One thing that I have learned as a result of tuning is thinking outside the box.

If you where given a brush and were able to paint any picture you want about your system what would you paint? In other words, what would you like your system to be able to do? You might say this is a question that can not be answered because you know limitations about your system that stop you from getting to the level of listening that you want to get to. Is that correct thinking though?

In this thread I would like to share with you things that are not suppose to happen in the audio hobby the way we understand it to work but for some reason did. I'm sure you have heard things from your system that did not make sense in the typical understanding of what we have been taught or told but yet you heard it.

Does audio, the way we understand it, follow the laws of physics or have we accepted myths and theories that are not reality? Maybe the laws we have been taught have not yet matured in the process of development. The only way we can know for sure is with our own ears and our own experiences. Knowledge is something that works and wisdom is knowledge repeated. I think that we can answer questions that are going to make our listening experience more complete by our understanding of things that happened and we except that they happened. Maybe through this you can right your own laws that work for you and your system.

_________________michael greenPH 702 762 3245 Email mgtune@yahoo.com

Michael GreenAdmin

Posts : 3564Join date : 2009-09-12Location : Vegas/Ohio/The Beach

Subject: frequency response Sun Feb 07, 2010 8:05 am

Hi Listeners

Did you know that frequency responses (in specs) are only a guideline and not reality?

Next time you run into your local measuring guru you might want to give a listen to the changes he makes on his product in your system long term before you accept the changes as automatic improvements. Specs only tell you what a part is doing under those particular testing conditions. Outside of those conditions you have a whole new ball game.

I have a lot of buddies in the tweak world and I'm constantly surprised at how they will run things through their computer and make changes based on the charts provided instead of listening to the whole system being affected by any changes. This is a terrible way to tweak or design. Most of the time the changes require more parts than less which almost always means the loss of signal or frequency response. You've probable heard of these tweaks designed to tighten up your bass response right? Well it's important to make sure that instead of tightening up your bass your friend didn't just loose the bottom notes to your system or put your harmonics out of tune.

Here's a fact. True bass extension gives you a tighter bass not boomier bass. In tuning, the same time that you lower your bass response you should also be able to raise the level of impact on your upper bass. Most people don't have a system or the know how to do both. When you lower your frequencies your increasing the size of the biggest wave in the room. This wave in turn changes the pattern of the signal path causing the harmonics above the new low frequencies to be un-settled making the lower notes sound too big or boomy. The flip side of this is cutting out the extreme lows thinking that the bass is tighter. I recommend learning your harmonic ques on your lower notes very well so you have a wide range of references to make sure you didn't just lose music. If you do get a tweak, after you let your system settle a little you should take inventory of your system making sure that all of the conduits carrying signal have also been realigned keeping the harmonics full and image focused. It's a common mistake when we get one component in our system modded not to match the other components to the new signal path created. Also most people doing modes only know how to make a fixed change on just that component and don't take into consideration that the component just changed is interconnect to the sound of the other components. Remember it may be fun to get something engineered or re-engineered but if you do this to fix a problem that is happening someplace else in your system you might have just move further from the music instead of closer.

Here's a tip when it comes to bass extension. Most systems as a whole should be able to go down to 50 Hz no matter how small the woofer is (within reason). If your not getting a good strong 50 that is tight out of your system I guarantee you have blockage somewhere in your setup or you have a node that is throwing your lower frequencies out of phase.

Finding frequency freedom can be one of the most fun listening experiences you can have!

_________________michael greenPH 702 762 3245 Email mgtune@yahoo.com

Michael GreenAdmin

Posts : 3564Join date : 2009-09-12Location : Vegas/Ohio/The Beach

Subject: Re: Outside The Box Mon Apr 05, 2010 6:19 pm

In the TuneLand archives

you will see us talk about chassis. I personally have removed hundreds of equipment chassis in my system and other's. Every time I do this the system opens up dramatically. The system becomes a brand new animal when you start to apply space to it. Many in the industry spend tons of time and money closing in the sound. For me I like the opposite. By freeing up your parts to breath and vibrate you are allowing them to develop their natural harmonics which all moving parts containing mass need to perform at their maximum output. This is why you hear your volume go up when you open up your system.

Your electronics come to you in a chassis for a reason, shipping and electrical shock. A few companies use the chassis to dissipate heat but even with these if you remove the chassis and add sinks you will gain in performance. Discounting this 1% of product the rest of the electronic world was designed minus the chassis then added it before shipping.

If you compare a stripped down piece of equipment against one that is stock you will be shocked by the difference in performance. This will also start you on a new path of tweaking your system that will allow you to go further than you thought possible with your setup.

_________________michael greenPH 702 762 3245 Email mgtune@yahoo.com

Michael GreenAdmin

Posts : 3564Join date : 2009-09-12Location : Vegas/Ohio/The Beach

Subject: Re: Outside The Box Thu Sep 08, 2011 8:54 pm

Thought this was pretty cool and should be looked at as something "outside the box".

Sonic's shielding adventures.

"Hi Michael and Zonees

I am amazed how effective the copper tape/MW pieces are. Sonic was looking for spots (i/c chips) to shield and here was one where as my finger came within 1/10 inch of the top of the chip I heard a "buzzzmmmm" through my speakers. No sound when I was away then as I got close to touching it...."buzzzmmmm". How long has this been going on? This must have been messing up my sound.

So powered down the device and placed a 1" x 0.25" x 0.25" finished MW with copper on top. Powered up and reached towards the i/c slowly....and this time silence!

Touched the shield... silence

Where was the chip? In the X-30 volume control section.

The sound of the whole system has gone cleaner with the shields in place. So quiet and new musical details unmasked. Slightly less volume for a given control setting but it really opens up and fills the room and beyond when turned up a step more.

The system with the shielded V-DAC has improved to the point that it is un arguably better than digital-analog conversion using the onboard DAC of the CD player.

Sonic thinks Michael has a product here -- finished MW squares of various sizes with copper tape plus some form of earth drain.

Here is a pix of my V-DAC. See the where the chips are shielded. I am trying out a couple of more spots but doing it carefully because the copper could short something out if I am not careful.

This brings me to an observation: removing top covers, taking circuit boards out of cases may be good for vibrations to bring out the musick but could cause a lot of RFI an EMI problems which why some get mixed results from doing this. RFI and EMI are orrible things and vary with the equipment's environment and proximity to anything and everything near it. The affected gear could be a generator or RFI or affected by RFI or both in different parts of the circuit. So this alone means there is no single solution for the tune application.

Michael, do you agree and want to add something?

Sonic also found that finished MW is better sounding than unfinished MW. The unfinished wood is a bit dead (damped) by comparison and I found cherry to be the nicest sounding finish in my system. The gunmetal grey wood sounds odd...a bit sour and slow.