I perhaps did not clarify on the thrust of the point that I was trying to make.

We are of one mind on the corporate controlled media. These people are not journalists, they are talking heads for the ruling elite, they are spin masters and propagandists. They do not tell the general population the truth unless it is something that they think will cause their rating's to rise.
They distract and divert attention away from the real issues by focusing so much time and energy on things that are, though tragedy's for the familles involved, nothing more than diversionary tactic's from the issues that affect all of the United States and the world as a whole. They not only perpetuate the fear that those who are really in power want to be perpetuated, they also perpetuate the fear that our own familles are in danger from perpetrators that they make sound like they are around every corner, behind every bush, and living right next door. By blaring the news from around the nation and now they are starting to report this news from outside the nation, about kidnappings, rape, and murder they are making us prisoners in our own minds. Yes, they have done a superb job. We are a nation who is truly in the grip of fear.

We are also of one mind on just how evil the GOP is, and this administration in particular. This president, who now has our nation in the grips of his blood covered hands has absolutely no redeeming qualities that I can find. Not one. He is un intelligent, non articulate, contains no compassion nor empathy. He is a brutal, selfish tyrant who is in pursuit of a goal that will lead to the downfall of this country. He may have accomplished this already. As I have stated many times, we may never be forgiven for our transgressions against the people of the world. Because this sub human has no redeeming qualities what so ever, I think that he could be correctly called the Anti Christ. He is pure evil incarnate. He is in fact worse than Hitler because although you would have to dig hard to find them, even someone as vile as Hitler did have some redeeming quality, some principles that were humane in nature. This president has none. If any of you can find anything, and I mean anything that could be considered a redeeming quality in this person, please tell me because I have dug and not found one thing. I had honestly believed up until this point that there could be no one either purely evil, nor purely good in humanity. This so called man has forced me to rethink this.

Now, where we do differ is on the Democratic Party and how culpable they are for allowing this to happen. I will not point to things in the past that they have done that were not in the interest of our country, many of these things that were in fact harmful to our country. I will not point to the fact that while we were here screaming our heads off, attempting to alert the nation that this war in Iraq was a farce to bring to fruition the plans of the PNAC cabal and that there was proof out there that we were being told lies, we were ignored as a fringe group of lunatics, conspiracy theorists, and to some traitors to the United States of America for voicing our opposition to what was transpiring, we were ignored by all but a very small handful of our representatives who had the courage to vote NO to the transgressions that we were about to put into play. I will also not point to the fact that a majority of the Democrats supported the Israeli rights to "protect itself" in this recent war on Lebanon, a war that purposely targeted civilians and critical infrastructure in a plan that was in the making long before the offensive was taken over the capture of two soldiers who by many accounts were in fact captured IN Lebanon itself. Nor the continued support of Israel in the extermination of the Palestinian people in an expansive land grab because Israel believes that it has a God given ownership of these lands, and many Christians also support this. I could write a book on just what the Democrats have done wrong. No, I do not believe that they are as bad as the GOP, but the difference is marginalized by their own actions. I really do get frustrated when someone points to the Democratic Party as the saving grace of this nation without acknowledging the flagrant flaws that this party possesses.

I will not point to any of the above because what we are talking about here is vote fraud.

How many of you have been paying close attention to what has been happening in Mexico? Now granted, these people have been oppressed by a corrupt government for quite some time now and finally the nation is raising up in protest against that which we in the United States have recognized for quite some time. This is what we in this country should have done. The Democratic party should have stood as one and said there is no way in hell we are going to let this stand. They did not.

We have had by all accounts 2 elections that were rigged by the GOP, and I still think that there was in fact three. Now, listen to me. I want to make sure that you understand exactly where it is that I stand on this issue. There comes a point in every nations history that the powers that are in control cross a line of trust in which the nations people must stand up and rebel against this breach, this usurpation of power. No matter how wrong or right, good or bad I feel the Democratic Party to be, if they would have stood as one and said to the people "There is NO way we can allow this to stand" I would be on the front lines to remove these people who have hijacked this country. I see what has happened as the greatest betrayal to ever happen to the people of this country, yet the Democratic Party fell to their knees, they bowed to this fraud, this usurpation of a rightful election.

Yes, what I am proposing that should have happened would have been, in the short run, bad for this country. It could have even become bloody, I do not deny this, and it would have been a terrible thing. The consequences though of this not happening will be far greater. Because the Democratic Party nor the people were willing to stand in opposition to what happened, we are now rightfully seen as the greatest threat to world peace. Because the Democratic Party nor the people were willing to do what had to be done to prevent the blatant hijacking of this government, three countries have been ravaged, America is for the most part universally hated around the world, in our name, hundreds of thousands of innocent have been killed, maimed, and otherwise harmed. Because the Democratic Party nor the people were willing to do what was not only our right, but our responsibility, our Constitution has become just that which Bush says it is, "A goddamned piece of paper," we have lost many rights, it has become ok to torture, hold someone without reason, by pass all constitutional laws and protections, run up our debt to staggering proportions while giving huge tax breaks to the already grossly wealthy elite. We have allowed the working infrastructure of this country to be outsourced removing jobs from the American economy while having them shipped over seas so that the wealthy elite can become even more wealthy while they exploit other nations people. Because the Democratic Party nor the people were willing to stand up and fight for what is an injustice we have allowed the removal of many safeguards that were in place to protect the environment, we have allowed the education system to become the joke of the world, we have lost a city, we have increased the number of poor and then we kick them while they are down. How long shall I go on with this?

At least TWO elections. How many more will we allow before we are willing to do what has to be done? How can we guarantee not only the people of the United States but more importantly the people of the world that this will never happen again? We can talk all we want about once again Never Forgetting, but if not tomorrow, or not during the next elections, nor even in 2008 but eventually we will once again forget. When this happens will we once again sit idly by braying about how unfair these hijackers are, or will we then stand up and take back what is rightfully ours? We have proven that we are willing to allow this to happen without a fight, do we think that once this passes it will never happen again? Unless we are willing to risk all to fight for what is right, it will happen again. That is if we even make it to 2008 without attacking Iran which will not be a death blow to Iran, nor to terrorists. It will be a death blow to this country as we know it.

I'm sorry dori, cat, and sadie, I love you guys, I really do. I think that you are some of the most kindhearted people that I could ever have the fortune of meeting, and I do honestly wish that I could meet you in real life, I find you to be that special. Perhaps someday if this mess passes, perhaps someday. I would also like to add that I think you JustOneMoreThing and lefty, are both excellent addition to this family at TVNL. As you can see, I am kind of the oddball of the family, though I hope they love me nonetheless because of it.

Perhaps you are right dori, perhaps I am cynical, but I feel that I have a reason to be to a certain extent. Above all though, I am angry at what has been allowed to happen.
I cannot convey to you just how angry I am. I am surprised that when I go for my walks in the woods to clear my mind and worship that which I choose to worship, that the forest surrounding me does not wilt. I am surprised that my anger is not so palpable that when I argue with these fools who are still actually in support of this atrocious administration that they do not burst into flames on the spot. I fight hard to not allow this anger to eat away at my mind to the point that it is an all consuming passion which would drive me to the brink of insanity, and I do this because I love this world. No matter how much I hate what is being done to it, I focus on that in the world that IS worth saving. This is the only thing that has kept me sane to this point, although I guess that this could be debatable. Out of all of the ugliness and horror, I choose to recognize that which is beautiful and pure to keep my sanity intact, by doing this it helps as a buffer for my mind against the anger that I feel.

I am angry with the NewsMedia for perpetuating the lies, I am angry at the Republicans for starting these lies, and I am angry at the Democrats for not standing up against these lies.

Most of all though, I think it is the disappointment in the American people that hurts me the most. We have become a nation that is so self absorbed, so materialistic, and so ego driven and narcissistic that as long as we are allowed to remain in this self destructive state, we are willing to give up all of our rights, all of our finances, and all of our control to the people in this world who do not have humanities best interest at heart. This brings to me a grief that is hard to overcome. It is hard not to fall into a state of depression and just give up all hope. At times I come close, but I always find something that brings me back to life. It can be something as simple as a child playing, or witnessing a random act of kindness, or listening or reading something that I consider to be the pinnacle of what humanity could be, something that I consider to be so beautiful that it shows me that this life is worth fighting for.

Even with all of the ranting that I did up above, right now I am sitting here watching the leaves begin to fall, though most have not changed. I am watching them dance in the wind, and I think about the poem I wrote. No, I cannot give up. Even if I wanted to I don't think I could. My mind will always turn back to what this life could be not only for myself, but for everyone and this is most definitely worth fighting for.

_________________CrimsonEagleThe war to end all wars can only be fought on the front-lines of the mind.

The greatest deception they have perpetrated is that we need them. Our greatest mistake is that we believe them.

I'm sorry dori, cat, and sadie, I love you guys, I really do. I think that you are some of the most kindhearted people that I could ever have the fortune of meeting, and I do honestly wish that I could meet you in real life, I find you to be that special. Perhaps someday if this mess passes, perhaps someday. I would also like to add that I think you JustOneMoreThing and lefty, are both excellent addition to this family at TVNL. As you can see, I am kind of the oddball of the family, though I hope they love me nonetheless because of it.

Don't apologize for being who you are, CE...I, we...feel that we know you personally, even though we've not "met" you in person. You help make the best better...and by that, I mean this board and its active members. We love you, too.

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Most of all though, I think it is the disappointment in the American people that hurts me the most. We have become a nation that is so self absorbed, so materialistic, and so ego driven and narcissistic that as long as we are allowed to remain in this self destructive state, we are willing to give up all of our rights, all of our finances, and all of our control to the people in this world who do not have humanities best interest at heart.

I think CE has put into words what most of us here feel. AND for me, at least, I really believe that the majority of the AMericans who are like CE describes are so brainwashed that they think naively that they will continue living in their comfortable cocoons once the neocons finish destroying this nation. They think they will be able to rely on the Constitution, to speak freely, to worship as they please, to vote, to go here and there as they please, to sleep in their houses without fear of a midnight invasion, and to have all of the good things that have made life in America so great before 9/11 and the Bush takeover.

THAT's the most incredible thing to me.

_________________

"Behind every great fortune lies a great crime."Honore de Balzac

"Democrats work to help people who need help. That other party, they work for people who don't need help. That's all there is to it."~Harry S. Truman

Awwww CE, I would still love you even if you said you were going to register as a R. I'd slap you around a little bit, but still love ya.

This thread is a PERFECT example of why the Dem's get accused of not being able to agree and come together as a party. We ALL agree on 80% of what we discuss. We are all thinking, intelligent people and yes we still disagree on some issues. Isn't that what thinking people do? Debate and discuss? Agree and disagree?

The other party agrees on everything ALL of the time. This makes them APPEAR to be in concert with one another. It make them appear as ONE.

Frustration tends to make people cynical. I have fallen to it many, many times.

My point is to concentrate that anger towards the true enemy. You believe that is the Democrats, I believe it is media.

Do you really believe John and Jane Doe don't love their children more than anything else? Don't want clean air and water, shelter and pure food for them?

Do those you know believe people who are truly needy should not have help? Do you know anyone who would knowingly deprive a child a doctors visit when he/she is sick? Would they take away jobs from people trying to feed their families?

The list goes on and on, but you get the picture. In people's hearts, liberal values live. But being liberal isn't 'cool' now, we are told to hate those 'bleeding hearts'. After all, we have been told over and over the poor have 'chosen' to be poor, the sick have 'chosen' to be sick, they are all trying to take your hard earned dollars away from you in the most selfish way!

My point is that media is feeding shallow values to the American people. And they are lapping it up--pushing down the teachings of the leader they profess to love because after all, Jesus teachings are not what Christianity in the Republican manner is about. Republicans have turned Jesus teachings on their heads--the rich are valued, the poor are are worthy only of contempt.

No one questions this because it is heard 24/7, and has been for years now. Media bleats out the talking points of the Republicans. Even when people see America is not doing well, they can not put 2 + 2 together and come up with 4. After all, four is not the message that keeps hitting them every time they turn on the radio or TV. It isn't the message they get from their churches. It isn't the message they hear from their neighbors.

We are ruled by advertisements, either from commercial organizations or from ideologues. The result is the coarsening of the man in the street. That soft marshmellow center is covered by a thick though, sometimes impenetrable shell. Bwala, the birth of the pod people!

So, as I see it, media pulverizes the brains of Joe Average. These are the people who are going to go to the polls and vote. Do you think we, the people who are searching constantly for the truth, are a more powerful lobby than the lobotomised crowd filled only with the propaganda they have heard over and over and over--and have not questioned? Do you think candidates do not realize this situation?

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I really do get frustrated when someone points to the Democratic Party as the saving grace of this nation without acknowledging the flagrant flaws that this party possesses.

No one is perfect. I have never claimed they are. What I have said is the only party capable of getting Republicans out of office is the Democratic party. I am so sick of people saying third party candidates are going to do the trick. Remember Perot? He is the only reason the Rs didn't win in '92, and he was from the right. If we want to lose, we can run another left candidate against the Dems and insure the Rs will rule forever!

No, the Dems certainly are not perfect. Heck, they can't even agree with one another--sort of like the people here, eh?

I am typing while listening to C-Span 2 and I can't say how many times the Rs have screamed they have to have their way because 'those people want to cut our heads off'. Dems want diplomacy and working with other countries to control this horrible situation WE have created, Rs just keep hitting the rolling heads button.

By now, we probably have created many, many more people who actually DO want to kill us all, and with good reason. We need people who can work with words to hopefully improve the situation, again, that WE created! Not you and I, but the pod people who believe what they hear in media...

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How many of you have been paying close attention to what has been happening in Mexico?

Yes, I think probably we are all following it. The people in Mexico are the poorest of the poor. They have nothing left to lose--some of our people are getting to that point, but not the majority. As long as people are comfortable they will not rebel. If they have no intention of rebelling, they are not going to give a da**. Again, media has decided our values for us, and the I, me, mine way of life is pushed on us from all angles.

The farmer who used to own the land that surrounds me always said, people have gotten too far away from the land. He is so right! Not only have we gotten too far away from the land, we have gotten too far away from ourselves. How many things do we do that are not in our best interest?

Worse of all, we have allowed others to decide our values, and that is where media comes into the picture. It has terrible values, and too often we accept them.

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No matter how wrong or right, good or bad I feel the Democratic Party to be, if they would have stood as one

Never going to happen. Democrats are all over the board. A Democrat from Rhode Island is not like a Democrat from Kansas. But there are some great looking vets running as Dems for the House and I hope they win their races. Thing is, to actually win votes in Congress, the Dems have to have a large majority, because many Dems are conservative.

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Because the Democratic Party nor the people were willing to stand up and fight

I am so glad you put it this way--'the Dem Party nor the people'... If I could draw a graph here, I would have the media feeding the people who then feed the party. Yes, we are part of the people, but we are not living on propaganda and we are in the minority. The party is doing it's best to preserve American values but it is an uphill battle. And not every Dem is even working to do that. The party has a lot of problems, it is still our best hope.

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Most of all though, I think it is the disappointment in the American people that hurts me the most.

Amen to that!

Sadie put this so well!

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This thread is a PERFECT example of why the Dem's get accused of not being able to agree and come together as a party. We ALL agree on 80% of what we discuss. We are all thinking, intelligent people and yes we still disagree on some issues. Isn't that what thinking people do? Debate and discuss? Agree and disagree?

The other party agrees on everything ALL of the time. This makes them APPEAR to be in concert with one another. It make them appear as ONE.

I just don't know what to say. Either I once again wrote it wrong, or it was not read correctly. Either way I consider it to be my fault. I would like to say one thing before I go.

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My point is to concentrate that anger towards the true enemy. You believe that is the Democrats, I believe it is media.

You are wrong about me here. I choose to direct my anger towards the true enemy. It is the corporate elite who control the media, the government, the money, and the people.

Also just one more note before I go. Do you realize that even if the Democrats avoid having another election STOLEN from them and they regain control of both the House and the Senate Bushit still has the power to destroy us. You see, it appears that he has all of the people in place that he needs in order to launch a nuclear attack. He only needs to confer with these people who he placed in key positions for a short amount of time before the launching of our nuclear weapons in the name of national security. Think he is crazy enough to do it? I sure as hell do.

When that first election was stolen, the Democrats and the People, In which I mean the Democrats, you know, the majority that voted against Bush but lost anyway, should have ripped this nation right from its foundation to right this wrong. Because this did not happen, we get what we deserve.

In parting, I would like to say this. Our inaction has allowed a MANIAC to be at the helm. There are times that a peaceful way out is not an option. This was one of those times. Too late now. Enjoy the ride.

Peace and Love

Dave.

_________________CrimsonEagleThe war to end all wars can only be fought on the front-lines of the mind.

The greatest deception they have perpetrated is that we need them. Our greatest mistake is that we believe them.

As for the Do-Nothing Dems, there are definitely too many of them and we've not had a Democrat in Joe Lieberman...he's behaved like a Repub ever since Bush stole the election in 2000. But some of them are doing all they can....Sen. Byrd for one. Sen. Feingold, Sen. Boxer, Sen. Kennedy...I am appalled, however, by the sheer arrogance of the Republicans in their attitude towards the Democrats.

Like dori said, they gave them a small basement room in which to meet with Conyers. They've thumbed their noses at everything the Dems have tried to do to hold Bush and Company accountable for their crimes...crimes that Keith Olberman was unafraid to refer to in his historical commentary. They spent $51 million on investigating a blow job but they won't do anything to investigate the real crimes of this administration. Are they afraid of the net that will be cast should they do so?

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THAT's what I think it is...and with the imbalance of power right now, even the Constitution is stymied. The Repubs have the Executive, Legislative, and Judicial branches in their control. That's unlike anything that I've ever seen before in my lifetime.

Do the Repubs really believe that they will never be held accountable? Do they believe that they will be in power always? Maybe they will....they're sure dancing around in the high cotton like they'll fight and never lose.

Catherine

It is not a pleasant situation we are dealing with here. The US is supposed to be a democracy, its governmental structure set up as co-equal branches of power.

That power structure has coalesced into the hands of one of the participants, namely the Executive Branch. And, they are indeed executing. Executing in ways that hurt democracy and the needs of the individual citizen.

Democracy is in trouble, I think, and the people who should be involved in the business of fixing it cannot or will not.

The media, in its public role should be reporting on this condition and clammering for change and pointing out at least the current condition of the beast. But, it does not. The media should be reporting for the people who are most affected by events, and at the very least to keep them abreast of the situation that they are confronted with. But, they do not.

Perhaps this is why we see the proliferation of the small time blogger or alternative forms of media expression. The peoples' reaction needs to be known and expressed. It is sad isn't it that the media has let us down? When the dissenting voices cannot be heard? Voices that would be instrumental in fixing a very bad situation.

_________________My life is full of optimism and I am not going to stop living until I know the answers to all of the important things, like why does love exist.