Because the iPhone 4S is capable of 4G-like speeds on HSPA+ networks, AT&T hopes to convince Apple to add a "4G" indicator to the handset's status bar.

The push, revealed in an internal memo leaked to The Verge, would allow AT&T to further differentiate itself from competitors Verizon and Sprint, which run CDMA networks and do not offer HSPA+ connectivity. However, HSPA+ also does not fall under the definition of "true" 4G.

The language of the memo seems to suggest that Apple is open to the idea, and even goes as far as to say that the change will arrive in the form of an update to iOS for AT&T iPhones.

"AT&T is working with Apple to update the network indicator for AT&T's iPhone 4S to read "4G," the memo reads. "This will happen with an iOS release from Apple. Since iPhone 4S is an HSPA+ device, our customers will get 4G speeds from day one. Only AT&T has this unique network advantage."

A redesigned antenna that allows for faster HSPA+ connections is one of the major features of the new iPhone 4S unveiled this week. However, at the company's keynote presentation, Apple executives did not outright declare that the iPhone 4S is a 4G phone.

While Apple has not yet gone as far as to call the iPhone 4S a "4G phone," U.S. carriers AT&T and T-Mobile have advertised their own HSPA+ networks as having "4G" speeds, even though they aren't true fourth-generation technology. AT&T is currently rolling out a true LTE 4G network in the U.S., and the carrier's proposed acquisition of T-Mobile would give it more spectrum to expand its coverage.

Apple executives this week went as far as to say that the iPhone 4S offers data speeds that are competitive with existing 4G networks.

AT&T's official coverage map shows HSPA+ "4G" available in a number of major metropolitan areas across the U.S., though the vast majority of the country receives either traditional 3G "mobile broadband," or even slower EDGE speeds. AT&T's 4G LTE network is available in a total of five cities.

Is the naming of networks the same as the naming of Iphones?
1st Iphone. 2nd Iphone 3G. 3rd Iphone 3GS. 4th Iphone 4 (4 and 4 what a concept). 5th Iphone 4S.
If the device or the network is the next step in advancement or evolution then name it as such. If they are doing an incremental upgrade to the device or the network i guess they can call it whatever they want...or not.
So those complaining about the 5th Iphone being called Iphone 4S, get a grip it is what it is (5th hardware upgrade). Is the HSPA+ better than 3G? Then give it some indication. You choose.

I hear Apple criticised a lot for not quoting tech specs extensively and you're quite right, they miss the point. The rest of the industry has got bogged down in specs because that's the only differentiator they have because they don't control the software too. It's not a myth, Apple make their stuff work. The iPhone is a perfect example. It's not a million times more powerful than the competition, it's actually less powerful technically, but you'd never guess it using the thing because it WORKS better.

The types stuck on specs will probably never understand. They need a yardstick, where Apple is all about the total experience. Kind of like a Jaguar. A nice car, probably runs pretty fast, but breaks down a lot. If it spends too much time in the shop, your enjoyment isn't going to be great. Spec whores will always be quick to proclaim something that is largely irrelevant to a typical Apple user. Most simply don't care. They hear that it just works and for the vast majority, that is perfectly fine.

Probably the entire reason that Apple ranks highest in customer satisfaction for what, 8 years running?

The types stuck on specs will probably never understand. They need a yardstick, where Apple is all about the total experience. Kind of like a Jaguar. A nice car, probably runs pretty fast, but breaks down a lot. If it spends too much time in the shop, your enjoyment isn't going to be great. Spec whores will always be quick to proclaim something that is largely irrelevant to a typical Apple user. Most simply don't care. They hear that it just works and for the vast majority, that is perfectly fine.

Probably the entire reason that Apple ranks highest in customer satisfaction for what, 8 years running?

Ah well, in the end it's only themselves they deprive. Switching to a mac in 2008 was one of the most enjoyable IT experiences I've ever had. I felt like someone had finally made the computer I'd make.

Ah well, in the end it's only themselves they deprive. Switching to a mac in 2008 was one of the most enjoyable IT experiences I've ever had. I felt like someone had finally made the computer I'd make.

Erie. I also switch in 07. Had the same realization and experience (I also work in IT). I've been doing Windows since 3.0. My last straw was Vista. Oddly enough it was printer and WiFi instability that finally drove me over the edge in frustration with dropped connections. I didn't realize that I would also get a very nice piece of hardware in the bargain. At the time I had gone through 2 top end HP laptops, 2 Dell's, and one Sony in the span of 5 years. All failed with various issues like cracked boards by the power plug, broken hinges, broken USB ports, and one failed display.

My first mac from '07 (A 17" Macbook Pro) is still humming along. I replaced the power cord after 4 years due to constant twisting from winding it daily between classes (it's used by a student), but other than that, not a single failure.

Will no one mention the glaring elephant in the room? The only reason AT&T wants to label it 4G is for MONEY!! Other carriers, as I'm sure AT&T, does, charges an additional $10 on top of data plans for 4G. AT&T wants to ring out as much money from it's customers as it can.

Will no one mention the glaring elephant in the room? The only reason AT&T wants to label it 4G is for MONEY!! Other carriers, as I'm sure AT&T, does, charges an additional $10 on top of data plans for 4G. AT&T wants to ring out as much money from it's customers as it can.

Of course it's about money but in this case I think it's strictly about marketing. I don't think they charge any more for data on their '4G' branded devices. I don't recall Verizon charging more for LTE '4G' devices, either; I only recall Sprint charging $10 more a month for their WiMAX '4G' devices regardless I you want WiMAX or even have access to WiMAX.

Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"

Erie. I also switch in 07. Had the same realization and experience (I also work in IT). I've been doing Windows since 3.0. My last straw was Vista. Oddly enough it was printer and WiFi instability that finally drove me over the edge in frustration with dropped connections. I didn't realize that I would also get a very nice piece of hardware in the bargain. At the time I had gone through 2 top end HP laptops, 2 Dell's, and one Sony in the span of 5 years. All failed with various issues like cracked boards by the power plug, broken hinges, broken USB ports, and one failed display.

My first mac from '07 (A 17" Macbook Pro) is still humming along. I replaced the power cord after 4 years due to constant twisting from winding it daily between classes (it's used by a student), but other than that, not a single failure.

Never looked back

Such a similar experience! I remember waiting literally minutes and minutes for Vista to 'identify my network' and then ask me to select whether it was a home network or a private one. Then there was UAC, my goodness, UAC... lol

I had an Acer laptop I bought for £950 in 2005. Within a year the hinge was starting to crack and in two years it literally fell into two parts. I used to prop the screen up and take care not to snap the cable that ran from the keyboard to the screen! I notice Acer have since beefed up their hinges but they weren't too contrite when I got in touch.

I now have a 15" 2010 MbP and it's still as immaculate as the day I got it a year on. My girlfriend also wearily took my advice and bought a 13" 2011 MbP and she's never looked back. She LOVES it, and cannot stand Windows any more. She scrunches up her face and just hates it lol. It's geeky how much I love watching that! haha

My brother works in IT for a major University and he won't give macs a second thought. He knows I love them but he has all the usual misconceptions and won't be swayed, even though he has an iPhone 4 and loves it. He also had a 3G! My other brother saw my Mac Mini from 2008 and went out and bought an iMac. He loves it too, it's his pride and joy.

The simple truth is, people love their macs. They really, really love them. The joy of ownership is so far beyond what any Windows PC can provide right now. It makes us an annoying breed because we harp on and on about it, but enthusiasm is a very refreshing thing.

AT&T is shooting themselves in the foot here. When they actually roll out real 4G, what will their marketing department be able to say? Welcome to 4G - again? They are lowering the marketing value of their future 4G network by trying to use the 4G brand now.

Perhaps but the vast majority of people will not notice the difference between 5-6Mbit/sec HSPA+ and 10-15Mbit/sec LTE. Even at 2-3Mbit/sec there is not a whole lot of waiting around for the data connection to catch-up. 1Mbit/sec with good latency is even good enough for most things.

Perhaps but the vast majority of people will not notice the difference between 5-6Mbit/sec HSPA+ and 10-15Mbit/sec LTE. Even at 2-3Mbit/sec there is not a whole lot of waiting around for the data connection to catch-up. 1Mbit/sec with good latency is even good enough for most things.

Nope, tethering requires low latency and 3mbit/sec sustained for decent computer and iPad operation, even if it's good enough for phone-only use.

I've posted in another thread that all these highfalutin' advertised speeds is one of the biggest scams perpetrated on the US and global consumer.

Once I finally last month ditched my PC "gaming rig" for Xbox360, I don't see a reason for PCs in my personal life. If I need Windows7/Office2010 I have VMWare Fusion 3, with 4 now out and ready to rock if needed. For personal or self-employed use, for the next several years, I don't foresee myself using a PC of any kind. For work, perhaps, but I might bring my MacBook Pro along if they aren't too uppity about that. Or, even if I have to use a Windows PC at work I'll bring my iPad along if possible at the minimum.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonamac

Such a similar experience! I remember waiting literally minutes and minutes for Vista to 'identify my network' and then ask me to select whether it was a home network or a private one. Then there was UAC, my goodness, UAC... lol

I had an Acer laptop I bought for £950 in 2005. Within a year the hinge was starting to crack and in two years it literally fell into two parts. I used to prop the screen up and take care not to snap the cable that ran from the keyboard to the screen! I notice Acer have since beefed up their hinges but they weren't too contrite when I got in touch.

I now have a 15" 2010 MbP and it's still as immaculate as the day I got it a year on. My girlfriend also wearily took my advice and bought a 13" 2011 MbP and she's never looked back. She LOVES it, and cannot stand Windows any more. She scrunches up her face and just hates it lol. It's geeky how much I love watching that! haha

My brother works in IT for a major University and he won't give macs a second thought. He knows I love them but he has all the usual misconceptions and won't be swayed, even though he has an iPhone 4 and loves it. He also had a 3G! My other brother saw my Mac Mini from 2008 and went out and bought an iMac. He loves it too, it's his pride and joy.

The simple truth is, people love their macs. They really, really love them. The joy of ownership is so far beyond what any Windows PC can provide right now. It makes us an annoying breed because we harp on and on about it, but enthusiasm is a very refreshing thing.

yes, but is the HSDPA used by the iP4S considered to be HSPA+/4G by ITU?

No. Not even HSPA+ really. Marketing from AT&T is just that. Marketing. 4S is a HSPA device, until someone provides signalling traces or a spec sheet proving it does HSPA+ functionality (signalling and resource usage optimisations) with HSPA speeds (14.4).

No. Not even HSPA+ really. Marketing from AT&T is just that. Marketing. 4S is a HSPA device, until someone provides signalling traces or a spec sheet proving it does HSPA+ functionality (signalling and resource usage optimisations) with HSPA speeds (14.4).

If AT&T is specifically calling it HSPA+ instead of just saying '4G' and you consider the the liklihood of Apple using the Qualcomm MDM660 baseband hardware then the likelihood of it being HSPA+ as defined by the ITU increases dramatically.

edit: One AnandTech commenter says he "talked with my local AT&T store, and they said that the new iPhone 4S does not support the newer HSPA+, only HSDPA. […] and the store said that the 4S will not be any faster at all." Not really a great anecdotal answer since it will be faster and the AT&T rep or this forum poster could have misunderstood to mean it won't be faster in his area. One week until we find out.

Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"

No. Not even HSPA+ really. Marketing from AT&T is just that. Marketing. 4S is a HSPA device, until someone provides signalling traces or a spec sheet proving it does HSPA+ functionality (signalling and resource usage optimisations) with HSPA speeds (14.4).

That's the point. ATT may be able to claim their crap network is 4G using the ITU weasel definition, but the iP4S is not.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro.

Why should Apple have a 4G logo even though it has 4G speeds? Is it 3G? Yes. So, show a 3G logo! Just because it can REACH 4G speeds, the specs say its 3G. So what, next time when they actually have a 4G chip in it but the speeds are twice them, they will want them to call it 5G? If you have a jam doughnut, and put more jam in it, is it classed as a double jam doughnut?

But the thing is ... Apple has set a precedent already: In their 2nd form factor release, the 2nd iteration was called 3GS. So, adding "S" could just be affirmation of a tradition. We will get a iP5, then followed by iP5S.

its all marketing junk. I was most impressed that APPLE will not play this game. Right now I get better UPLOAD speeds on my Verizon 3G than the AT&T broadband connection I have! The DOWNLOAD speeds are opposite.

Antenna
The iPhone 4S antenna has been slightly changed from the iPhone 4, and can now automatically switch between two antennas to attempt to provide the best signal possible. Download speeds up to 14.4 Mbps on HSDPA wireless networks are supported.[6] However, the download speeds are still lacking when compared to the competition from HTC, Samsung which are using HSPA+.

Marketing people are not that bright so some one may have tried but that not to say it is iPhone 4S is HSPA+ device.

Antenna
The iPhone 4S antenna has been slightly changed from the iPhone 4, and can now automatically switch between two antennas to attempt to provide the best signal possible. Download speeds up to 14.4 Mbps on HSDPA wireless networks are supported.[6] However, the download speeds are still lacking when compared to the competition from HTC, Samsung which are using HSPA+.

Marketing people are not that bright so some one may have tried but that not to say it is iPhone 4S is HSPA+ device.

Your odd quote from Wikipedia isn't well sourced. It still unknown if the iPhone 4S has HSPA+ or not. They only thing we can now for certain is that it's 14.4Mbps and that it most likely has the MDM6600 baseband hardware.

Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"

But the thing is ... Apple has set a precedent already: In their 2nd form factor release, the 2nd iteration was called 3GS. So, adding "S" could just be affirmation of a tradition. We will get a iP5, then followed by iP5S.

AT&T Marketing BS. iPhone 4S does not connect to a 4G network. Done and done.

Make a real 4G network AT&T and you can get your 4G designation.

Too late. They're already selling Android devices with "4G* speed" with an asterisk on their website next to a disclaimer about it being implemented with 3G HSPA+ with enhanced backhaul. it's all right there in the fine print, so it's nice and legal. Of course, AT&T is lethargically rolling out a 4G LTE network.

I think they should be able to....and this is a guy coming from an Android on Sprint's network. The issue is that this all started with Sprint. No one is truly 4G. I'm so surpirsed (but impressed) that Apple didn't say it's 4G (but 4G like speeds). Let's just say the iPhone 4S is gonna be faster than the EVO 4G. Seriously though, why shouldn't ATT be able to market it like that? Sprint is saying unlimited data and ATT can say 4G speeds.

So instead of stopping some people from illegally marketing their products, we're just going to let EVERYONE illegally market their products.

Okay.

But neither is illegal. I can offer you unlimited milage on a rental car, but still limit you to use that car in town and to a 24 hours period. The unlimited plans are still limited to the duration of your paid contract and for use on a specific device.

With calling something '3G' or '4G' or even '5G' it's wide open unless the carrier or vendor specifically states that their network or device is "'4G' as defined by the ITU" and then fails to deliver on that specification.

Marketing is about making something bad look good and making something good look great, but that doesn't mean you have to lie to do it. It's just like being on a first date. You talk your strengths, you try to avoid your weaknesses, and you use clever and colourful language to describe them when you have no choice. We're all selling something.

Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"

Your odd quote from Wikipedia isn't well sourced. It still unknown if the iPhone 4S has HSPA+ or not. They only thing we can now for certain is that it's 14.4Mbps and that it most likely has the MDM6600 baseband hardware.

Why is that you think Apple is under state what the iPhone 4S can do by only saying that iPhone 4S I doubt that.

HSPA+ is not 14.4Mbs devices it must be 28Mbs devices

Vodafone is to trial HSPA+, an evolution of todays radio access HSPA technology, to assess its potential to deliver even higher data rates through the upgrade of existing network equipment.

Vodafone will work alongside Ericsson, Huawei and Qualcomm to trial Release 7 HSPA+ (also known as HSPA Evolution) which has the potential to handle data even more efficiently than todays HSPA technology.

The initiative will help to establish whether HSPA+ is capable of delivering data throughput rates of up to 28.8 Mbps compared to the 14.4 Mbps maximum offered by todays HSPA networks. If successful, the technology has the potential to extend the life of todays HSPA infrastructure still further.

HSPA+ technology is designed to offer higher throughput than HSPA through its use of multiple antennae on both base stations and handsets (Multiple Input Multiple Output) as well as the deployment of a complex modulation technique called 64-QAM HSDPA. Both features will require new advanced devices compliant to 3GPP Release7 standard.

The project builds on early technical assessments that Vodafone has already carried out where the MIMO version of HSPA+ recorded high data throughput rates for users in a simulated urban macrocellular network.

Last year Vodafone launched a 3G broadband service based on High Speed Packet Access (HSPA) with downlink peak rates of up to 7.2Mbps in selected hotspots within some key markets. Vodafone plans to carry out software upgrades to more of these selected hotspots to deliver up to14.4Mbps from the end of the year as part of the existing HSPA roadmap subject to device availability.

These trials will help us to ascertain whether HSPA+ voice and data capacity enhancements will be able to leverage existing UMTS assets, including radio spectrum, to prolong the lifespan of current UMTS networks still further, said Steve Pusey, Global CTO of Vodafone. It will complement the exploratory work we are carrying out into more long-term next generation wireless technologies such as LTE.

So even if the ATT have HSPA+ network they can't call iPhone4S HSPA+ that is why ATT Technical department say it won't be faster.

Marketing departments are full of guys with full of it and wanting to use Acronyms not knowing what they means.