Back to my roots, a work that I will be playing with my orchestra in a couple of months, the first symphony to use my instrument, the trombone (and the symphony with the most recognizable 4-note motif in all of classical music):

So is there a Beethoven CD set out there that has all of his symphonies?

I'm looking for a really good audio recording of them.

Skip the symphonies. Go for the late quartets.

Since you ain't a "classical music" fan, I wouldn't get much into the symphonic works. Frankly, I am not a big fan that form and I think Beethoven is overrated as symphonic composer and nowadays a bit too accesible to be interesting.

His late quartets however are inscrutable and I've never met anyone who didn't find them "awesome".

And in general I think if you are going to get into "classical" music, I believe in the opposite advice of most. Go with some interesting and difficult stuff.

If you are insistent on specific recordings of his symphonic works, well that becomes a complicated discussion, especially if you want them performed by the same composer and symphony and if you are willing to pay a little extra for out print stuff.

Usenet is great and I think a reasonable way to get flac files of a variety of recordings to "sample" then purchase what you find interesting.

EDIT: I doubt anyone is going to agree with the above. But I would ask them how many people have they manage to enjoy classical music by going the conventional wisdom route.

EDIT 2: I say the above knowing a little about your listening habits. You are a sophisticated auditor and I think you might find the "density" of the quartets rather compelling over and against some of the turned cliche elements of the symphonies.

Back to my roots, a work that I will be playing with my orchestra in a couple of months, the first symphony to use my instrument, the trombone (and the symphony with the most recognizable 4-note motif in all of classical music):

To me the most memorable motif is the 4-notes in the 4th movement that you will be playing. That is, the motif of constantly changing keys that starts out quietly in the background with the cellos (I think approximately measure 42: G-F#-G-A) that comes out in full glory with the trombones in the development (approximately measure 99 if you do not include the repeat).

Out of curiosity, what do you do during the first three movements? Are you allowed to play solitaire on your cell phone? Is listening within the brass section a good experience?

So is there a Beethoven CD set out there that has all of his symphonies?

I'm looking for a really good audio recording of them.

Skip the symphonies. Go for the late quartets.

Since you ain't a "classical music" fan, I wouldn't get much into the symphonic works. Frankly, I am not a big fan that form and I think Beethoven is overrated as symphonic composer and nowadays a bit too accesible to be interesting.

His late quartets however are inscrutable and I've never met anyone who didn't find them "awesome".

And in general I think if you are going to get into "classical" music, I believe in the opposite advice of most. Go with some interesting and difficult stuff.

If you are insistent on specific recordings of his symphonic works, well that becomes a complicated discussion, especially if you want them performed by the same composer and symphony and if you are willing to pay a little extra for out print stuff.

Usenet is great and I think a reasonable way to get flac files of a variety of recordings to "sample" then purchase what you find interesting.

EDIT: I doubt anyone is going to agree with the above. But I would ask them how many people have they manage to enjoy classical music by going the conventional wisdom route.

EDIT 2: I say the above knowing a little about your listening habits. You are a sophisticated auditor and I think you might find the "density" of the quartets rather compelling over and against some of the turned cliche elements of the symphonies.

Again, a grain of salt.

I have to both agree and disagree with this post.

Beethoven's symphonies are underrated. There is a density to them that are under-appreciated. I am not sure how to convince you of this. In my mind, this comes out when you hear or play a piece at an extremely slow tempo such that you hear things that you did not realize were there before. In regard to the current topic, Glenn Gould's extremely slow rendition of the Liszt piano transcription of Beethoven's 6th symphony (which is somewhat boring as an orchestral piece) bears this out. It allows you to hear the details that would otherwise pass you by. [And yes, I do buy his box set recordings and I have tried to get his ultrafast version of the Mozart piano sonatas from Canada twice to no avail].

In regard to the late quartets, I agree they should be a priority. I leave the symphonies as treats that I might hear on the radio (Beethoven has a rhythm and beat that is perfect for driving). When I am writing, I can listen to the same quartets on a daily basis. Primarily Opus 131 and the Grosse Fuge, mainly because that is what is on my computer at work. I have this long standing project to digitalize my LPs so I can listen to them when I am not at home.

So is there a Beethoven CD set out there that has all of his symphonies?

I'm looking for a really good audio recording of them.

Skip the symphonies. Go for the late quartets.

Since you ain't a "classical music" fan, I wouldn't get much into the symphonic works. Frankly, I am not a big fan that form and I think Beethoven is overrated as symphonic composer and nowadays a bit too accesible to be interesting.

His late quartets however are inscrutable and I've never met anyone who didn't find them "awesome".

And in general I think if you are going to get into "classical" music, I believe in the opposite advice of most. Go with some interesting and difficult stuff.

If you are insistent on specific recordings of his symphonic works, well that becomes a complicated discussion, especially if you want them performed by the same composer and symphony and if you are willing to pay a little extra for out print stuff.

Usenet is great and I think a reasonable way to get flac files of a variety of recordings to "sample" then purchase what you find interesting.

EDIT: I doubt anyone is going to agree with the above. But I would ask them how many people have they manage to enjoy classical music by going the conventional wisdom route.

EDIT 2: I say the above knowing a little about your listening habits. You are a sophisticated auditor and I think you might find the "density" of the quartets rather compelling over and against some of the turned cliche elements of the symphonies.

Again, a grain of salt.

I have to both agree and disagree with this post.

Beethoven's symphonies are underrated. There is a density to them that are under-appreciated. I am not sure how to convince you of this. In my mind, this comes out when you hear or play a piece at an extremely slow tempo such that you hear things that you did not realize were there before. In regard to the current topic, Glenn Gould's extremely slow rendition of the Liszt piano transcription of Beethoven's 6th symphony (which is somewhat boring as an orchestral piece) bears this out. It allows you to hear the details that would otherwise pass you by. [And yes, I do buy his box set recordings and I have tried to get his ultrafast version of the Mozart piano sonatas from Canada twice to no avail].

In regard to the late quartets, I agree they should be a priority. I leave the symphonies as treats that I might hear on the radio (Beethoven has a rhythm and beat that is perfect for driving). When I am writing, I can listen to the same quartets on a daily basis. Primarily Opus 131 and the Grosse Fuge, mainly because that is what is on my computer at work. I have this long standing project to digitalize my LPs so I can listen to them when I am not at home.

Thanks Opus.

I do think the symphonies are overrated, when for example people attempt to suggest his symphonic work is the highest achievement in musical composition with the 9th being the greatest of them all.

(I am not sure how to even begin to understand such statements.)

This is not a rarely heard stance.

To your point about tempo. I agree complete which is why I like the Furtwangler I posted above. Furtwangler's mastery of rubato and among other things really opens up what does unfortunately sound a little tired and cliched to we who have heard snippets of the works in the most unfortunate of places: commercials, terrible movies, elevators, the dentist's office.

In short, I will probably be listening to some of his symphonic work next weekend due to these posts.

EDIT: This is coming from someone who knows almost niltch about music. Really I had hope for a little "push bach" from PtA, so thanks for offering it in his stead.

So is there a Beethoven CD set out there that has all of his symphonies?

I'm looking for a really good audio recording of them.

Skip the symphonies. Go for the late quartets.

Since you ain't a "classical music" fan, I wouldn't get much into the symphonic works. Frankly, I am not a big fan that form and I think Beethoven is overrated as symphonic composer and nowadays a bit too accesible to be interesting.

His late quartets however are inscrutable and I've never met anyone who didn't find them "awesome".

And in general I think if you are going to get into "classical" music, I believe in the opposite advice of most. Go with some interesting and difficult stuff.

If you are insistent on specific recordings of his symphonic works, well that becomes a complicated discussion, especially if you want them performed by the same composer and symphony and if you are willing to pay a little extra for out print stuff.

Usenet is great and I think a reasonable way to get flac files of a variety of recordings to "sample" then purchase what you find interesting.

EDIT: I doubt anyone is going to agree with the above. But I would ask them how many people have they manage to enjoy classical music by going the conventional wisdom route.

EDIT 2: I say the above knowing a little about your listening habits. You are a sophisticated auditor and I think you might find the "density" of the quartets rather compelling over and against some of the turned cliche elements of the symphonies.

Again, a grain of salt.

I have to both agree and disagree with this post.

Beethoven's symphonies are underrated. There is a density to them that are under-appreciated. I am not sure how to convince you of this. In my mind, this comes out when you hear or play a piece at an extremely slow tempo such that you hear things that you did not realize were there before. In regard to the current topic, Glenn Gould's extremely slow rendition of the Liszt piano transcription of Beethoven's 6th symphony (which is somewhat boring as an orchestral piece) bears this out. It allows you to hear the details that would otherwise pass you by. [And yes, I do buy his box set recordings and I have tried to get his ultrafast version of the Mozart piano sonatas from Canada twice to no avail].

In regard to the late quartets, I agree they should be a priority. I leave the symphonies as treats that I might hear on the radio (Beethoven has a rhythm and beat that is perfect for driving). When I am writing, I can listen to the same quartets on a daily basis. Primarily Opus 131 and the Grosse Fuge, mainly because that is what is on my computer at work. I have this long standing project to digitalize my LPs so I can listen to them when I am not at home.

Thanks Opus.

I do think the symphonies are overrated, when for example people attempt to suggest his symphonic work is the highest achievement in musical composition with the 9th being the greatest of them all.

(I am not sure how to even begin to understand such statements.)

This is not a rarely heard stance.

To your point about tempo. I agree complete which is why I like the Furtwangler I posted above. Furtwangler's mastery of rubato and among other things really opens up what does unfortunately sound a little tired and cliched to we who have heard snippets of the works in the most unfortunate of places: commercials, terrible movies, elevators, the dentist's office.

In short, I will probably be listening to some of his symphonic work next weekend due to these posts.

EDIT: This is coming from someone who knows almost niltch about music. Really I had hope for a little "push bach" from PtA, so thanks for offering it in his stead.

I understand. I cannot read symphonic scores without an aid (it is visually too complex for me). For my post to Peter, I had to listen to Toscanini, and thus limit my time commitment via his fast tempo, in order to get to the section I was referring to.

I do not indulge myself. Almost all of my digital recordings are from the University of Trente/Karadar (if my memory serves me correctly) where people would upload their mostly mono LP recordings and we would rate them. A great place for Italian operas, I am pretty sure there was a fair amount of Furtwangler recordings, but I am afraid I only downloaded operas and chamber music. I think Karadar is no longer free even though the recordings were voluntarily uploaded without cost to them and they were subsidized by the university. C'est la vie.

So how does one go about describing classical music? I can describe pop music pretty well, but I just don't even know how to describe it.

Thanks for the info and orthonorm will try and get back to your reply later. I have a terrible stomach ache right now.

You need a bowl of avgolemono soup Achronos. There is nothing for Orthonorm to reply to. I am however curious about pop music. When you are well I would be curious about knowing your definition, but it better include "Get thee behind me Satan" by Harriet Hilliard (Nelson, of Ozzie and Harriet). I would also include all of the other songs from "Follow the Fleet", this is just a start.

Some may be enticed by "Let yourself go", but I am much more of a "Lets face the music and dance" type.

So is there a Beethoven CD set out there that has all of his symphonies?

I'm looking for a really good audio recording of them.

Skip the symphonies. Go for the late quartets.

Since you ain't a "classical music" fan, I wouldn't get much into the symphonic works. Frankly, I am not a big fan that form and I think Beethoven is overrated as symphonic composer and nowadays a bit too accesible to be interesting.

His late quartets however are inscrutable and I've never met anyone who didn't find them "awesome".

And in general I think if you are going to get into "classical" music, I believe in the opposite advice of most. Go with some interesting and difficult stuff.

If you are insistent on specific recordings of his symphonic works, well that becomes a complicated discussion, especially if you want them performed by the same composer and symphony and if you are willing to pay a little extra for out print stuff.

Usenet is great and I think a reasonable way to get flac files of a variety of recordings to "sample" then purchase what you find interesting.

EDIT: I doubt anyone is going to agree with the above. But I would ask them how many people have they manage to enjoy classical music by going the conventional wisdom route.

EDIT 2: I say the above knowing a little about your listening habits. You are a sophisticated auditor and I think you might find the "density" of the quartets rather compelling over and against some of the turned cliche elements of the symphonies.

Again, a grain of salt.

I have to both agree and disagree with this post.

Beethoven's symphonies are underrated. There is a density to them that are under-appreciated. I am not sure how to convince you of this. In my mind, this comes out when you hear or play a piece at an extremely slow tempo such that you hear things that you did not realize were there before. In regard to the current topic, Glenn Gould's extremely slow rendition of the Liszt piano transcription of Beethoven's 6th symphony (which is somewhat boring as an orchestral piece) bears this out. It allows you to hear the details that would otherwise pass you by. [And yes, I do buy his box set recordings and I have tried to get his ultrafast version of the Mozart piano sonatas from Canada twice to no avail].

In regard to the late quartets, I agree they should be a priority. I leave the symphonies as treats that I might hear on the radio (Beethoven has a rhythm and beat that is perfect for driving). When I am writing, I can listen to the same quartets on a daily basis. Primarily Opus 131 and the Grosse Fuge, mainly because that is what is on my computer at work. I have this long standing project to digitalize my LPs so I can listen to them when I am not at home.

Thanks Opus.

I do think the symphonies are overrated, when for example people attempt to suggest his symphonic work is the highest achievement in musical composition with the 9th being the greatest of them all.

(I am not sure how to even begin to understand such statements.)

This is not a rarely heard stance.

To your point about tempo. I agree complete which is why I like the Furtwangler I posted above. Furtwangler's mastery of rubato and among other things really opens up what does unfortunately sound a little tired and cliched to we who have heard snippets of the works in the most unfortunate of places: commercials, terrible movies, elevators, the dentist's office.

In short, I will probably be listening to some of his symphonic work next weekend due to these posts.

EDIT: This is coming from someone who knows almost niltch about music. Really I had hope for a little "push bach" from PtA, so thanks for offering it in his stead.

I learned a long time ago to never enter a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. (I figured you knew next to nothing about what you were talking about when you dissed Beethoven's symphonies. ) BTW, that "push bach" is a really BAD joke. BOOO!

So how does one go about describing classical music? I can describe pop music pretty well, but I just don't even know how to describe it.

Thanks for the info and orthonorm will try and get back to your reply later. I have a terrible stomach ache right now.

You need a bowl of avgolemono soup Achronos. There is nothing for Orthonorm to reply to. I am however curious about pop music. When you are well I would be curious about knowing your definition, but it better include "Get thee behind me Satan" by Harriet Hilliard (Nelson, of Ozzie and Harriet). I would also include all of the other songs from "Follow the Fleet", this is just a start.

Some may be enticed by "Let yourself go", but I am much more of a "Lets face the music and dance" type.

A definition of pop music? I think that's impossible. It's much too vague. I mean popular music, for the most part, has always existed as long as there has/is an urban middle class to consume it.

A few comps that might be beneficial:

That's more of a historical look.

What's really going on in pop music these days is hip-hop, not so much Rock and Roll anymore. As Lester Bangs would say, we are waiting for the next big thing but nothing has happened. However I disagree with him from whence he said those words, but I believe it is true of today's pop.

If you were to ask me who would be remembered from the latter half of the 20th century it would be this guy:

And that is the best boxset I own. I hate boxsets too, but it is probably in my top 10 favorite "albums". He was smart (gifted?) enough to putting rhythm on top of pop, which is what made him the greatest pop/r&b artist of his era. Chuck Berry, Elvis, the Beatles are pretty close to second.

As far as stuff from those 3 artists, probably the best single disc compilation is:

I don't think this boxset is as good as the former, but if you want even more of Chuck, go for the Chess Box:

As far as Elvis:

And the Beatles must be the Mono Box Set that was released in 2009:

(The definitive version of the White Album is the stereo mix, although there is some interesting mixes like that of "Don't Pass Me By" which seems sped up.)

But of course this barely scratches the surface, there's just so much pop music out there, and stuff I have yet to consume, that I'd probably need to be in my 30s and 40s to get all the way caught up.

The Beatles in my youth more or less baptized me into realizing just how good popular music could be.

« Last Edit: December 10, 2012, 06:34:47 AM by Achronos »

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“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

So how does one go about describing classical music? I can describe pop music pretty well, but I just don't even know how to describe it.

Thanks for the info and orthonorm will try and get back to your reply later. I have a terrible stomach ache right now.

You need a bowl of avgolemono soup Achronos. There is nothing for Orthonorm to reply to. I am however curious about pop music. When you are well I would be curious about knowing your definition, but it better include "Get thee behind me Satan" by Harriet Hilliard (Nelson, of Ozzie and Harriet). I would also include all of the other songs from "Follow the Fleet", this is just a start.

Some may be enticed by "Let yourself go", but I am much more of a "Lets face the music and dance" type.

A definition of pop music? I think that's impossible. It's much too vague. I mean popular music, for the most part, has always existed as long as there has/is an urban middle class to consume it.

A few comps that might be beneficial:

That's more of a historical look.

What's really going on in pop music these days is hip-hop, not so much Rock and Roll anymore. As Lester Bangs would say, we are waiting for the next big thing but nothing has happened. However I disagree with him from whence he said those words, but I believe it is true of today's pop.

If you were to ask me who would be remembered from the latter half of the 20th century it would be this guy:

And that is the best boxset I own. I hate boxsets too, but it is probably in my top 10 favorite "albums". He was smart (gifted?) enough to putting rhythm on top of pop, which is what made him the greatest pop/r&b artist of his era. Chuck Berry, Elvis, the Beatles are pretty close to second.

As far as stuff from those 3 artists, probably the best single disc compilation is:

I don't think this boxset is as good as the former, but if you want even more of Chuck, go for the Chess Box:

As far as Elvis:

And the Beatles must be the Mono Box Set that was released in 2009:

(The definitive version of the White Album is the stereo mix, although there is some interesting mixes like that of "Don't Pass Me By" which seems sped up.)

But of course this barely scratches the surface, there's just so much pop music out there, and stuff I have yet to consume, that I'd probably need to be in my 30s and 40s to get all the way caught up.

The Beatles in my youth more or less baptized me into realizing just how good popular music could be.

You know the Lady's a lot like RenoShe ain't got a heartAnd she don't care when your downJust like the lights of a casinoShe'll pull you inAnd play with you awhileBut there ain't no way to winI know, she's a lot like Reno

They're both out to break youTake everything you gotWhen you finally win the handThere ain't nothing in the potA gamble that I'm takingBut either one I chooseLady or Reno, either way I lose

I keep wondering at times just what it is that keeps me adept at finding the markedly unique and splendidly gratifying variations of certain songs that raise them above the average pile of mundane finds that normally materialises in the first page of a Youtube search.

There is no shortage of things here that force me to adulate this particular performance of the popular exile-themed 'Tzivaeri mou'. Firstly, the theme has always attracted me and hearing this played on the santur is pure icing. Or rather, that would be Eleny Vitali: she simply has a spectacularly powerful and Mediterranean, low register to her voice that lends it strength and maturity I'm normally at pains to track and find in female singers (particularly eg. 2:31 3:10-3:11). And how well it is used, held back and restrained with short, cut-off notes, and pauses in places where the song could otherwise become annoyingly over-sentimental (eg. 1:13-1:14 2:23-2:24). Further in avoiding that same danger, and also in places where a stale note could sound out, she executes oriental musical ornamentations and bends the notes (eg. 2:47-2:51) or even changes them to give a different variation (eg. 3:27-3:29).

Even if we have thousands of acts of great virtue to our credit, our confidence in being heard must be based on God's mercy and His love for men. Even if we stand at the very summit of virtue, it is by mercy that we shall be saved.