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I think runtime rotation could be done via the screens API (replacing the drawing functions with their rotated equivalents) - if all of Rockbox fully used the screens API. But I'm not convinced the feature is worth the effort - at least I won't attempt it...

it's actually charging now, and seems to be ok. I'm worried that it won't charge when I listen to music, which makes all the useful features of Rockbox out of my grasp. I almost exclusively listen to my ipod in the car whilst driving, plugged into a Monster radio transmitter/charger

So one last newbie question: When I plug my 4G iPod Photo in, it shows a charging icon. If I try to shut it down while plugged in, it will turn off, then immediately show the non-backlit apple logo, then the backlit apple logo, and boot back into Rockbox

it seems that there's no way for me to shut it down and still have it charge. If I unplug it, I can shut it down, but then it boots again the moment I plug it in. Is this expected behavior? I couldn't find the answer in the manual nor forum

linuxstb: I don't feel very strongly about the parser rejecting or not rejecting the WPS if there are too many pictures. It makes just as much sense to me to reject it... feel free to implement it that way ;)

ive also had the misfortune of blowing out the firewire charging circuit on my ipod, so i can use all those nifty ipod battery packs, so i think it may be time to go back to stock firmware so i can get some more use out of this little guy

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Okay....Well i downloaded the 30 gig rockbox, from the site. Unzipped it to the desktop, and went to the guide at http://download.rockbox.org/manual/rockbox-ipodvideo/rockbox-build.html which i follwed the manual install. I copied and pasted the .rockbox to the drive in which my iPod is located. Then copied the voices to the iPod and then executed the bootloader. I rebooted the iPod, and rockbox-

loaded fine. The skin for the ipod looked amazing. Then i got the songs in there, it told me to reboot again to do something (not sure), so i did, and when this happened the skin went to like...(ill take a pick just read your comment, i put the - to continue it) a skin that...basically shouldnt be there.

If I am running rockbox on a sansa e260 and i go to plug it in via usb to my pc while playing a song to charge the battery, is it supposed to turn off and just have the wheel light up blue while the screen remains black? I thought it was possible to plug the player in while running rockbox and not have it automatically power off.

JdGordon: Yeah, but ignoring that, is there a reason against linuxstb's method? I really like the fact that it means you can incorporate playback elements into the List (though it's still lacking for conditional viewports)

I mean I'd want a "status bar" up top, and a "playback status" at the bottom, which disappears and returns the space to the list if playback is stopped. But that's just me and how I'd design my list viewports, and illustrates a couple extra features it'd need to have to meet my "ideal"

JdGordon: I would guess because nobody's bothered? In playback, it tells you if you're clipping (something you can fix), in Recording, it tells you if you're clipping (something you can fix). In FM, it tells you the station operators are clueless (not much you can do about it).

So if you also have prerecording enabled, you can always record your favourite songs. The drawback is that the MAS sucks more battery power this way, so if you really just want to listen to the radio, battery runtime is shorter than it could be

We can even save more battery power on archos this way. While the MAS is a single chip, its components can be switched on and off separately, and for fm radio, we only need the audiocodec. The dsp core can be switched off

GodEater: I did have someone test the mutex after a small but deep bug was corrected an the overall buffering speed was just as good as the rollback but it was mentioned that initial playback could break up. I think any real fix has to be at the buffering level.

Anybody else seeing a complete lockup the moment you start playing any music on an IPod (Both my 5.5G 80GB and my Nano have the same problem). This started happening when I updated from Subversion today (Yesterday the build was fine).

amiconn: But you can equally argue that the id3 code belongs in apps... IMO a better compromise would be to have some MAS-specific code (if it has to be) in apps/, rather than id3 metadata parsing in firmware/.

and I'd also like the way the prerecording time is shown in the hwcodec FM screen everywhere else (counting up as it's buffering until it reached the set prerecording time, so you know when it reached "full" state)

linuxstb: I don't know, guess it could help if people have too many images and don't know that they do. If anything can make a WPS fall back to the built-in one it's sometimes harder to find the real reason(s). I know those WPSs are broken but it helped me more to see a broken image (or the broken WPS before this fall-back mechanism was invented). Could be that it's a bit different for me in comparison to those who hit the buffer limit and that wa

disorganizer has a point. It would be real nice if there was at least *some* notice that loading the WPS failed (look at all the questions in the forums or here of people who try to load broken themes/WPSs and don't know what's going on)

problem imho is that people do come here often with the question "the default wps shows if i load this and that theme". if they get any error message pointing in the right direction this could pevent channel-floods :-)

nico_p: in fact even a better idea than a wps. a "working" wps on error implies to the user that something is working and just things arent shown. if we just show a splash-screen this will be a definite indication of failure

linuxstb: did you see the list-size patch? will the screen-clearing conflict with the possibility to have a custom statusbar in general or is it just the method you hack works that causes the screen clearing to disturb sb display?

disorganizer: No, I haven't looked at that patch. My solution (hack?) so far is to make the status bar contain viewports which completely fill the screen (along with the list viewport), so the status bar in effect clears the unused parts of the screen.

about the gsoc proposal, I see that there are two text fields, one for the abstact and one for the longer proposal, write these independently from each other or is it ok to put an overview in the abstract and details in the main field, without paraphrasing the abstract again?

linuxstb: that's good, then I don't have to repeat myself. I want to put the general idea in the abstract (which should be understandable without knowing Rockbox), this wouldn't make much sense in the detailed description

if i see a list, and scroll down (like in fileview) then it scrolls up in the line before the last line. (lets say i have 10 lines in the displayed vp, but 15 lines to display, i go down until i reach line 9 and then it scrolls instead of when i selected line 10)

i must admit i can see that point of llorean. the viewport-sizing is extremely theme dependant as the wps and other parts of the viewport system needs to fit. so setting this will propably in the future break the themes, this it should not be settable by the user

kugel: A customized list position will be part of a theme. Since the theme designer knows the backdrop dimensions, and the location of additional viewports, there's no "trial and error", there's simple, objective numbers.

kugel: There has long been a view amongst the devs that Rockbox has too many settings - so we think long and hard about any new ones. I agree that manual editing of the list position doesn't see a very useful feature.

kugel: Remotes have WPSs, they currently use the same font as the main screen (likely to change), and from a user perspective are essentially a second screen for their player that is as affected by themes as the main screen.

linuxstb: I'd like to make long-select be context menu in the WPS, and I really wouldn't mind the volume buttons scrolling (I'd use that personally, but wouldn't have put that in my suggested revision of the keymap)

linuxstb: I noticed yesterday that the statusbar lag from going WPS -> browsers/menus became more obvious on the Ondio because now it still shows the part of the WPS in that area until the statusbar is updated (before it was blanked)

speaking of bootloaders. the h300 bootloader is behaving oddly. after unplugging the power supply I need to push the stop button for it to display the "charging complete" screen and shutting down. play/on will start up the original firmware

markun: since it seems you added the usability study idea onto the list, what were your thoughts on how a student would approach that in a plannable way guaranteeing that a decent bit of actual code work be done?

i could see a usability study working out if the person applying has a good bit of history in such things, but it isnt really something a first-year uni student without experience in such things can properly do

I think _any_ project is acceptable as long as (a) the application is detailed enough to convey what will be done and how, (b) it is about the right amount of work, and (c) at least one mentor is interested in following it closely

either way, the usability study idea is quite touchy and so far, it does not seem like this student would do it justice...what we need to do is figure out *exactly* what we want from such a proposal and communicate that to him and the wiki

midgey|web: I think that happened last year, and we (the mentors) voted on which applications to recommend to Google. So in effect we picked the best of the two competing applications, and the second student got nothing.

Anyway I think someone should reply to this application with our doubts (both about the application itself and about the experience required for a usability study). If nobody beats me to it I'll try to think of something later tonight

linuxstb: BTW what do you expect to happen with USB detection in bootloader? Considering that it doesn't get into the rockbox bootloader with USB inserted, quick USB insertion during boot is not something that I would normally do

Bagder: Could you add &pathrev=xxxxx (where xxxxx is the same as r2) to the diff URLs generated by the SVN script for the front page (and elsewhere I guess). This fixes links if files are subsequently renamed or deleted (e.g. Linus's changes to FILES earlier today).

Just when writing 512-byte chunks, it gets messy: The driver reads a 1024-byte sector into the cache, replaces the respective half with the 512 bytes to be written, and writes that 1024-byte sector again

Nico_P: on normal startup, dircache will scan through the entire file tree (using direct fat_* methods for fast access) and just create a linked list containing all files and directories (and attributes of those)

Nico_P: and tagcache checks at first if there is a temporary db on disk waiting to commit, and will commit that if found. After that it waits dircache to became ready (if enabled) and starts searching for new tracks. Finally there will be a search for removed tracks (that phase will be greatly optimized soon)

Nico_P: for example initializing dircache for the first time or cache reserve allocation is exeeded when performing "live" cache operations (such as adding new files to the cache after a usb connection)

(0) = core, RTBS = state, first number = base priority, second number = running priority (may be a higher inherited from another thread if a higher priority one is waiting for a lock) xx% = max percent of stack actually used

jazznazzz: When you say "still there", where is "there" ? If you delete files, they won't (I think) immediately disappear from the database, and if they are playing, it will be buffered in RAM, so will continue playing.

I have put a more detailed template at http://pastebin.ca/958466. Please comment on it. I plan to put it on the wiki soon (with the mention that it's still a draft ?). I'd like to have this page more or less ready before I add a comment to the application that's currently there

jhMikeS notices a marked increase in handle request speed with dircache on with H10 (no delay between them) and so buffering is faster with dircache and database updating the background than with none of those enabled. :\

it's not listed as working or not working, but it's not a fancy dock / speaker / remote combo it's just a hifi grade "pickup" than turns the iPod line out into dual phono out, so prosumably it'll work? I mean it isn't even using serial at all I guess

-O3 turns on a lot more inlining so it probably kills the icache, but generally I believe that the state of the m68k backend in gcc makes the rest of gcc take stupid decisions (m68k is used as an example of outdated backend in need of cleanup in the gcc wiki...)

I also wonder sometimes how the compiler can make decisions regarding speed if it doesn't know how fast memory accesses are (e.g. internal RAM could be faster than external RAM and a lot faster than flash)

gevaerts: add a bit about having some previous ideas of things that are currently wrong with our "usability"...also change the thing about experience from a first-year student to someone without past expereience in doing such usability studies/indepth UI design

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jhMikeS: when resuming playback with the player essentially idle, there seems to be two phases. at first buffering is rather slow, then past approx. mid buffer it gets much faster... any idea why that could be? codec boosting less maybe?

Nico_P: was it the case that "access to the menus seems unaffected"? The statement in 8807 seems to indicate the unresponsiveness doesn't happen to the menus which would rule out any sort of priority override.

i from russia, so im sorry for bad english... I have ipod video 30 gb. 1 year ago i install to ipod rockbox version 16xxx. Everything allright, but battary life - only 3-4 hours. Does it fixed on latest rockbox and how long ipod can work without charging?

What we're doing to reduce ticking is to spread out the byte transfers, in order to reduce the energy density of the transfer. The faster transfer results in shorter transfers and longer pauses, given the same overall update speed

feindbild, GameJerk: Mostly the hardware isn't capable. Future targets may have enough power. But even if the targets are strong enough, there're needs to be someone who implements it (anyone who wants that too). I personally think mpeg2 does a good job

OK. Short summary of my USB tests (on c250). If I (only) disable all non-usb interrupts, it works "better". If I (only) disable double buffering (= simultaneous disk and usb I/O), there are no real changes. If I disable both double buffering and non-usb interrupts, everything seems to work perfectly (I now did 7GB without a hub and 2GB with a hub)

when i put the FM preset file in .rockbox/fmpresets it doesn't load when i reboot. And when i load the file from the file tree it opens up just fine but doesn't allow me to save the presets so when I go to "FM Radio" it just says "No preset found, autoscan?" any ideas on whats going wrong?

My interpretation of this is that the USB controller reads directly from RAM, without any buffering. If something else tries to access RAM simultaneously, the controller hiccups and either breaks of the packet or sends it with a (very) short interruption halfway, to which host and hub react badly.

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