If we get incorporation through Nordyke, will that increase the chance of getting AB357 passed?

In my opinion it should, but we are in California and many of the politicians in Sacramento don't base their decisions on facts but rather emotion and propaganda.

mblat

03-26-2009, 7:50 PM

No

In any reasonable future Carry Laws can be relaxed in CA though court system and court system only.
Legislature will not pass such obvious pro-gun bill.

Librarian

03-26-2009, 8:27 PM

Legislature will not pass such obvious pro-gun bill.

It's pro-freedom, pro-fairness, and pro-self-defense.

Most of the legislature hates all of those...

CCWFacts

03-26-2009, 8:32 PM

Nordyke and Heller both help to some extent. They both provide "cover" for some legislators who may be on the fence. "Well, the Supreme Court said it is an individual right, so I felt I had to vote for this..."

Some in the legislature may also realize it's a matter of time before a court makes the change for them, and they might wish to avoid that. I think some of what helped them almost pass CCW in WI is that some of the legislators there knew that it's going to happen sooner or later through the courts.

These are all small effects, which might gain us a few fence-sitters at most.

hoffmang

03-27-2009, 10:33 AM

Nordyke will, at the margin, help AB-357. Post Nordyke, the argument that CA can comply or lose the entirety of certain laws will be compelling.

-Gene

7x57

03-27-2009, 10:38 AM

Nordyke will, at the margin, help AB-357. Post Nordyke, the argument that CA can comply or lose the entirety of certain laws will be compelling.

I would translate that as "all political power comes from the barrel of a gun, so the only way to affect Sacramento's plans for our lives is to make them stare down the barrel of bigger federal guns than the state-sized guns they point at us." :chris:

But then, I'm cranky this morning. ;)

7x57

lioneaglegriffin

03-27-2009, 1:41 PM

I would translate that as "all political power comes from the barrel of a gun, so the only way to affect Sacramento's plans for our lives is to make them stare down the barrel of bigger federal guns than the state-sized guns they point at us." :chris:

But then, I'm cranky this morning. ;)

7x57

i think we all will be until Nordyke concludes.

nicki

03-27-2009, 1:55 PM

It won't help directly since Heller fuled that states could regulate the carrying of concealed arms.

However, if Nordyke when the 2nd amendment is challenged, the courts may have to deal with the issue of open LOADED carry, the right to bear arms.

If we get open loaded carry in California and we do what was done in Ohio a few years back, shall issue CCW will be fast tracked.

In the meantime, court action not so much on 2nd amendment issues, but equal protection will force probably force shall issue CCW.

That is how Alabama and Conn have become effectively shall issue states btw.

Nicki

M. D. Van Norman

03-27-2009, 2:00 PM

My primary argument to our legislators has been that if they donít enact reform it will be forced upon the state through expensive legal battles. In short, we are in the last days where there is an opportunity for peaceful resolution.

Librarian

03-27-2009, 2:50 PM

My primary argument to our legislators has been that if they don’t enact reform it will be forced upon the state through expensive legal battles. In short, we are in the last days where there is an opportunity for peaceful resolution.
Unfortunately, all levels of government feel they have a bottomless fund of money for such adventures - until they have to actually cut services everybody wants. Then they'll quit wasting money on cases they cannot, and should not, win.

When they can put their hands into your pocket and my pocket, backed by the force of law, they spend our money, not their own.

N6ATF

03-27-2009, 3:32 PM

Unfortunately, with CA.gov seeing no way to balance the budget rather than increasing taxes on everyone, in every way, to allow spending "caps" to be raised infinitely, they will never have to cut services everybody wants. This state needs to go bankrupt and everyone complicit in raising taxes and then lying about them needs to be permanently banned from ever serving in our government again.

redbull addict

03-27-2009, 7:28 PM

anyone concerned that the Nordyke decision has not come out yet? I had the impression that this was leaning in our favor and that a decision would usually come in about 30-45 days from the final arguments. The fact that we are 60 + days makes me wonder why they are taking so long. Perhaps its closer than we thought??

Librarian

03-27-2009, 7:38 PM

anyone concerned that the Nordyke decision has not come out yet? I had the impression that this was leaning in our favor and that a decision would usually come in about 30-45 days from the final arguments. The fact that we are 60 + days makes me wonder why they are taking so long. Perhaps its closer than we thought??

Already answered by LexArma - (a) he expected it to be 60+ in January and said so, and (b) it's difficult cases that get this far; writing these decisions is like Great Art - it's done when it's done.

fairfaxjim

03-27-2009, 7:48 PM

The legislature in CA is so completely dominated by left wing wackos that actually believe they have the ability to protect us from ourselves - and that we are totally incapable of that on our own, they will not NOT pass any pro firearm or pro carry legislation on their own, just won't happen. They will go so far as to propose many varried and trully baffling pieces of legislation simply to prove how well they are protecting us from the evil weapons and those extremely dangerous and misguided people who would dare to own such things. Many of them are convinced that guns are the problem - without guns, all criminals, sickos, and evil minded people will be magically cured. Believe it that to them, the NRA is an extremely dangerous, misguided, and truly evil entity - to be fought and hopefully defeated with EVERY resource available. They will fight completely and insanely any suit to overturn any existing anti-firearm legislation.

Post Nordyke and incorporation of Heller, frequent, continued, and protracted suits against any vulnerablities in the laws are the only means that any positive (for gun owners) changes will happen.

redbull addict

03-27-2009, 8:01 PM

Already answered by LexArma - (a) he expected it to be 60+ in January and said so, and (b) it's difficult cases that get this far; writing these decisions is like Great Art - it's done when it's done.

Sorry, I missed it. Thanks for the response.

lioneaglegriffin

03-27-2009, 8:02 PM

The legislature in CA is so completely dominated by left wing wackos that actually believe they have the ability to protect us from ourselves - and that we are totally incapable of that on our own, they will not NOT pass any pro firearm or pro carry legislation on their own, just won't happen. They will go so far as to propose many varried and trully baffling pieces of legislation simply to prove how well they are protecting us from the evil weapons and those extremely dangerous and misguided people who would dare to own such things. Many of them are convinced that guns are the problem - without guns, all criminals, sickos, and evil minded people will be magically cured. Believe it that to them, the NRA is an extremely dangerous, misguided, and truly evil entity - to be fought and hopefully defeated with EVERY resource available. They will fight completely and insanely any suit to overturn any existing anti-firearm legislation.

Post Nordyke and incorporation of Heller, frequent, continued, and protracted suits against any vulnerablities in the laws are the only means that any positive (for gun owners) changes will happen.

we all know that but it would be nice to change things (for the better) with the other two branches of gov.