Was on PTR testing them in my old items (so damage wasnt as good as it could be now) but they did around 8-10k hits what seemed like a 3rd dot if summoning 1 at a time, without a GCD i sometimes bashed out 2 instead of 1 a time so its abit annoying... but i hope these can play a key part in our DPS come 5.3, Seeing as there is no pet bar or buff i think a timer from Weak Aura's could be harder then i thought. But i like a challenge ^^

Yeah basically the idea is, FoN > Inc except on fights with a damage buff, and good aoe usage of inc. Slippy made a good post on it, but tbh i think its quite situational and dependent on how your raid handles things. Some fights will be an obvious choice to use trees.

I'm seeing very strange behavior with FoN on the PTR. The trees end up casting fewer Wraths when I have haste procs up.

On a level 93 target dummy in Shrine, when I use a tree at 10348 haste with no haste buffs except Moonkin form it casts wrath 9-10 times. When I use a tree during NG or during the meta gem proc it will usually cast one wrath right away then it will just walk around for a bit or run into melee range of the dummy. In the best case it will start casting again soon after and will get off 7 casts before despawning, but lots of the time it does worse than that and sometimes it just stands around doing nothing at all.

So basically, without NG or meta:

9-10 wrath casts total (why is there variation here?)

Stays perfectly still chain-casting, doesn't follow me even if I run as far away as I can

With NG or meta:

1-8 wrath casts total

After first cast it walks around a bit and then follows me if I move

Sometimes starts casting again but never gets more than 8 casts total

Is anyone else seeing similar behavior? I was looking forward to using FoN for some fights, but it's current implementation seems very buggy and inconsistent. I can't imagine that it will actually be better than Incarnation if it is wasting so many casts.

I'm seeing very strange behavior with FoN on the PTR. The trees end up casting fewer Wraths when I have haste procs up.

On a level 93 target dummy in Shrine, when I use a tree at 10348 haste with no haste buffs except Moonkin form it casts wrath 9-10 times. When I use a tree during NG or during the meta gem proc it will usually cast one wrath right away then it will just walk around for a bit or run into melee range of the dummy. In the best case it will start casting again soon after and will get off 7 casts before despawning, but lots of the time it does worse than that and sometimes it just stands around doing nothing at all.

So basically, without NG or meta:

9-10 wrath casts total (why is there variation here?)

Stays perfectly still chain-casting, doesn't follow me even if I run as far away as I can

With NG or meta:

1-8 wrath casts total

After first cast it walks around a bit and then follows me if I move

Sometimes starts casting again but never gets more than 8 casts total

Is anyone else seeing similar behavior? I was looking forward to using FoN for some fights, but it's current implementation seems very buggy and inconsistent. I can't imagine that it will actually be better than Incarnation if it is wasting so many casts.

Your post sparked me going onto the PTR and testing this myself - it could be a deal breaker if this is true. I did a bunch of tests with variation of NG, the meta and movement, and I pretty much saw exactly what you did. With no haste procs running at all, trees would stay perfectly still and always cast 9 wraths for me (9456 rating). This is exactly how many they should cast according to WrathCalcs.

However, once you stack them with either NG or the meta, they start running around after their Entangling Roots and waste up to 2 casts. I got 8 wraths on average, sometimes 9. With both the meta and NG active, I saw the same deal: 8 or 9 wrath casts. Really disheartening. I'm in the process of rendering a video of the various scenarios and I'll link it here when I've uploaded it. Haste procs really screw with the trees' AI.

Maybe they should just change them to work like the Demolocks fel imps... no duration(or a very long one), just x energy that does not regenerate and gets used up by Wrath, with them despawning once they're out.

Your post sparked me going onto the PTR and testing this myself - it could be a deal breaker if this is true. I did a bunch of tests with variation of NG, the meta and movement, and I pretty much saw exactly what you did. With no haste procs running at all, trees would stay perfectly still and always cast 9 wraths for me (9456 rating). This is exactly how many they should cast according to WrathCalcs.

However, once you stack them with either NG or the meta, they start running around after their Entangling Roots and waste up to 2 casts. I got 8 wraths on average, sometimes 9. With both the meta and NG active, I saw the same deal: 8 or 9 wrath casts. Really disheartening. I'm in the process of rendering a video of the various scenarios and I'll link it here when I've uploaded it. Haste procs really screw with the trees' AI.

us battle net/wow/en/forum/topic/8704260405

This has been reported nearly a month ago and Blizzard hasn't commented on it or made any indication they plan to fix it, which is why I've decided to simply stick with Incarnation next week. Likely won't be fixed this expansion.

This has been reported nearly a month ago and Blizzard hasn't commented on it or made any indication they plan to fix it, which is why I've decided to simply stick with Incarnation next week. Likely won't be fixed this expansion.

Bit of a shame, though I should keep up with the Bug Report forums a bit more then. Looking like FoN wont be as great as we'd have thought - for an average geared normal raider, your treants are supposed to cast 12.47 wraths on average. From what we see on the PTR, it's only 8 on average. Loss of 36% casts (36% damage per treant), and so Incarnation is the better talent at 2 or more targets, factoring in Incarnation target scaling. I'm taking these numbers from http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post20920799 where I did a comparison on the two earlier.

Even if you want to use FoN on a single-target fight you'll have to attempt to align them with no NG/meta, and even then you'll only get 1 additional cast per treant. If they were like Warlock Imps or a Mage's Mirror Images, I don't think we'd be having these problems. Regardless, this is a disappointing outcome.

I don't understand how hard it is to code these treants. It has literally been a problem since the Burning Treants 2pc back in Cataclysm and they've had nearly a year now since beta for MoP to fix this.

I don't understand how hard it is to code these treants. It has literally been a problem since the Burning Treants 2pc back in Cataclysm and they've had nearly a year now since beta for MoP to fix this.

It's not hard to code them, nor is it really hard to fix them. The issue is that Blizzard doesn't care enough to fix them the right way, and they don't have the time to fix them the way they want to fix them. One important thing you always have to remember with Blizzard coding is that often times its done a very particular way, not because it's the right way, or the most efficient way, but because they're too stubborn to do it any other way.

If this goes live it means that Blizzard's minions responsible for the quality of the talents design and performance are plain STUPID.
I sense 6 months more of INCARNATION being the only viable talent for moonkins.

Also - a question: are treants for other specs bugged in any similar way?

And maybe TW/Hero/BL fukks things up even more?

it s a real shame... I was hoping to use FoN for fun in pvp situations.

Rumor has it that they increased the cast time of the treants, and increased their damage by 25% to make up for the difference. Sounds like if they don't get GCD capped anymore, than using them during heroism, with legendary meta up is going to be beyond broken.

Rumor has it that they increased the cast time of the treants, and increased their damage by 25% to make up for the difference. Sounds like if they don't get GCD capped anymore, than using them during heroism, with legendary meta up is going to be beyond broken.