BLACK FOREST — The Black Forest Fire north of Colorado Springs raged overnight as thousands of people remained evacuated from their homes.The fire was first reported about 1 p.m. Tuesday, and by evening mandatory evacuation notices had been sent to 2,530 homes, encompassing more than 7,000 people. Estimates of the fire's size were 7,500 to 8,000 acres; El Paso Sheriff Terry Maketa...

kenplant2007 wrote:what's the over/under that the President will show up this year given it's not an election year?

Obama visited the tornado stricken and very red state of Oklahoma.

At the tone, leave your name and message and I'll get back to you."Jim, it's Beth. You have the vet's number, the flea collar and extra litter. One thing I forgot, keep him away from the other cats. He's not very discriminating."

I'm pretty sure propane tanks don't explode if a fire. They are designed so that the gas is released when heated and the gas just burns off. Some TV pics showed homes with gasoline tanks (for filling autos and equipment), and those definitely will explode.

huffdiver wrote:Seems to me from the pictures most of these folks never bothered to get a good "defenseable space" around their homes!

There was a fire like this in Oakland a number of years ago. I think more homes were destroyed/damaged.

The enviromentalists had gotten the local courts to forbid homeowners from clearing the underbrush around their homes. Habitat for the Kangaroo Rat, you know.

The thing was, not only were the homes destroyed but the rats got burned up, too.

Wonder if the enviros had anything to do with this?

Obama understands his constituents perfectly. They don't care what he does to the Constitution, the economy or his "enemies," as long as he provides them with gay marriage, legalized weed and a recharged EBT card the first of every month.

Rodger wrote:Some people build their homes next to a volcano then wonder why there is lava in their living room.... Same with people who build homes in tindered forests..... Why is every thing on fire..???..

Yep...some people build homes in the midwest and south, then wonder why tornadoes blow away their homes. Some build homes on the coast and wonder why hurricanes blow away their homes. Others build on fault lines and wonder why an earthquake takes their homes. Heck....some choose to live in places like Chicago and Detroit, then wonder why they have to dodge bullets!I wonder...where is it safe to live? Answer....nowhere!

RogueOp wrote:I'm pretty sure propane tanks don't explode if a fire. They are designed so that the gas is released when heated and the gas just burns off. Some TV pics showed homes with gasoline tanks (for filling autos and equipment), and those definitely will explode.

You obviously haven't been around fire much. Working with a rural fire department, Propane tanks were affectionately referred to as Widow Makers, and during a wildfire were the cause of many pull outs when the flames got too close. Those pressurized tanks, the small ones or the big ones, will burst when heated and send shrapnel everywhere.

As intelligent as I try to be, I still don't understand how we as a modern society can't get wild fires under control, especially in highly populated area with modern road access and nearby firefighting resources. This isn't your remote mountain forest where road access is limited, and most access is through aircraft. I realize the weather - winds, extreme hot temps, and low humidity - are a factor, but why can't we contain these fires once started? Working for the Federal BLM, many of my co-workers were "red carded" and volunteer to fight fires on public lands, and we had fire experts on our staff, but it's a science that still boggles the mind and seems to need more attention and resources. The argument that people should realize the risk or avoid the risk, of living in "forest" areas, doesn't fully apply here, because I believe this is mostly low shrub forest and not your towering pines growing close to each other? My heart goes out to these home owners who have lost their homes. We're seeing more fires in these semi-urban/forest-like areas of minimal forest growth, but enough to move the fire quickly over the landscape. With an increase in growth of these kind of communities, it seems we need more research on fire prevention and control to prevent the great lost of homes, and one would think the home insurance industry would demand it.

Rodger wrote:Some people build their homes next to a volcano then wonder why there is lava in their living room.... Same with people who build homes in tindered forests..... Why is every thing on fire..???..

So. . . you built your harm away from anything that burns, including other homes, and in an area where there's absolutely no risk of extreme weather or flooding, or anything else? Maybe out in the desert? You must always live in fear of some calamity happening. Stuff happens. Ever driven through the Black Forest neighborhood? If you did, you understand why people build homes there.

Rodger wrote:Some people build their homes next to a volcano then wonder why there is lava in their living room.... Same with people who build homes in tindered forests..... Why is every thing on fire..???..

Yep...some people build homes in the midwest and south, then wonder why tornadoes blow away their homes. Some build homes on the coast and wonder why hurricanes blow away their homes. Others build on fault lines and wonder why an earthquake takes their homes. Heck....some choose to live in places like Chicago and Detroit, then wonder why they have to dodge bullets!I wonder...where is it safe to live? Answer....nowhere!

I take my chances out of the forest, away from the coast, not on fluid ground, away from the crime, not by the volcano, not in mobil tornado bait, and right here on the front range....

toohip wrote:As intelligent as I try to be, I still don't understand how we as a modern society can't get wild fires under control, especially in highly populated area with modern road access and nearby firefighting resources. This isn't your remote mountain forest where road access is limited, and most access is through aircraft. I realize the weather - winds, extreme hot temps, and low humidity - are a factor, but why can't we contain these fires once started? Working for the Federal BLM, many of my co-workers were "red carded" and volunteer to fight fires on public lands, and we had fire experts on our staff, but it's a science that still boggles the mind and seems to need more attention and resources. The argument that people should realize the risk or avoid the risk, of living in "forest" areas, doesn't fully apply here, because I believe this is mostly low shrub forest and not your towering pines growing close to each other? My heart goes out to these home owners who have lost their homes. We're seeing more fires in these semi-urban/forest-like areas of minimal forest growth, but enough to move the fire quickly over the landscape. With an increase in growth of these kind of communities, it seems we need more research on fire prevention and control to prevent the great lost of homes, and one would think the home insurance industry would demand it.

This is very much an area with dense stands of tall pine forest. It somewhat resembles the Pine Ridge area of Northwestern Nebraska/Southwestern South Dakota.

The problem with wildfires is that we focus too much on saving property and preventing fires from occurring. Fire suppression and prevention methods have disrupted the natural course of fire in the ecosystem. Forests that used to be thinned and managed naturally by fires are now overgrown to the point where when (not if) a fire occurs it quickly becomes a massive and damn near unstoppable inferno.

Rodger wrote:Some people build their homes next to a volcano then wonder why there is lava in their living room.... Same with people who build homes in tindered forests..... Why is every thing on fire..???..

Yep...some people build homes in the midwest and south, then wonder why tornadoes blow away their homes. Some build homes on the coast and wonder why hurricanes blow away their homes. Others build on fault lines and wonder why an earthquake takes their homes. Heck....some choose to live in places like Chicago and Detroit, then wonder why they have to dodge bullets!I wonder...where is it safe to live? Answer....nowhere!

I take my chances out of the forest, away from the coast, not on fluid ground, away from the crime, not by the volcano, not in mobil tornado bait, and right here on the front range....

Good answer! Now, what do we do with the other 290 million people that cant live here?

Last edited by swatson839 on June 12th, 2013, 10:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

toohip wrote:As intelligent as I try to be, I still don't understand how we as a modern society can't get wild fires under control, especially in highly populated area with modern road access and nearby firefighting resources. This isn't your remote mountain forest where road access is limited, and most access is through aircraft. I realize the weather - winds, extreme hot temps, and low humidity - are a factor, but why can't we contain these fires once started? Working for the Federal BLM, many of my co-workers were "red carded" and volunteer to fight fires on public lands, and we had fire experts on our staff, but it's a science that still boggles the mind and seems to need more attention and resources. The argument that people should realize the risk or avoid the risk, of living in "forest" areas, doesn't fully apply here, because I believe this is mostly low shrub forest and not your towering pines growing close to each other? My heart goes out to these home owners who have lost their homes. We're seeing more fires in these semi-urban/forest-like areas of minimal forest growth, but enough to move the fire quickly over the landscape. With an increase in growth of these kind of communities, it seems we need more research on fire prevention and control to prevent the great lost of homes, and one would think the home insurance industry would demand it.

This is very much an area with dense stands of tall pine forest. It somewhat resembles the Pine Ridge area of Northwestern Nebraska/Southwestern South Dakota.

The problem with wildfires is that we focus too much on saving property and preventing fires from occurring. Fire suppression and prevention methods have disrupted the natural course of fire in the ecosystem. Forests that used to be thinned and managed naturally by fires are now overgrown to the point where when (not if) a fire occurs it quickly becomes a massive and damn near unstoppable inferno.

Yes sir! When it is 95 degrees and a hot wind is blowing 40MPH there is not much anyone can do. In our mountains we have a decade long beetle kill of pines with everything just laying dead and the envirowackos fighting every attempt to make some changes in this situation. Wait till that catches on fire! Summitt County is gonna get really ugly!

toohip wrote:As intelligent as I try to be, I still don't understand how we as a modern society can't get wild fires under control, especially in highly populated area with modern road access and nearby firefighting resources. This isn't your remote mountain forest where road access is limited, and most access is through aircraft. I realize the weather - winds, extreme hot temps, and low humidity - are a factor, but why can't we contain these fires once started? Working for the Federal BLM, many of my co-workers were "red carded" and volunteer to fight fires on public lands, and we had fire experts on our staff, but it's a science that still boggles the mind and seems to need more attention and resources. The argument that people should realize the risk or avoid the risk, of living in "forest" areas, doesn't fully apply here, because I believe this is mostly low shrub forest and not your towering pines growing close to each other? My heart goes out to these home owners who have lost their homes. We're seeing more fires in these semi-urban/forest-like areas of minimal forest growth, but enough to move the fire quickly over the landscape. With an increase in growth of these kind of communities, it seems we need more research on fire prevention and control to prevent the great lost of homes, and one would think the home insurance industry would demand it.

The simple answer is that when the weather pushes a fire, sometimes it is literally impossible to get enough fire fighting resources to the fire in time to stop its spread, even if there is access. Yes if every time a spark hits a tree we could throw a dozen engines at it, there would be fewer major fires, but that is not a reality in a world of limited resources. Here the local fire department was apparently on scene quickly, but this is not a scrub forest, it is pretty heavily forested with a lot of fuel that has not likely been cleared out for some time. And even in an area with roads not all fires start right by a road or are noticed before they are too big to stop. Sorry but control over every element of nature is impossible. Sometimes we simply face things humans cannot stop. Once a fire reaches this size weather determines when it stops.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

toohip wrote:As intelligent as I try to be, I still don't understand how we as a modern society can't get wild fires under control, especially in highly populated area with modern road access and nearby firefighting resources. This isn't your remote mountain forest where road access is limited, and most access is through aircraft. I realize the weather - winds, extreme hot temps, and low humidity - are a factor, but why can't we contain these fires once started? Working for the Federal BLM, many of my co-workers were "red carded" and volunteer to fight fires on public lands, and we had fire experts on our staff, but it's a science that still boggles the mind and seems to need more attention and resources. The argument that people should realize the risk or avoid the risk, of living in "forest" areas, doesn't fully apply here, because I believe this is mostly low shrub forest and not your towering pines growing close to each other? My heart goes out to these home owners who have lost their homes. We're seeing more fires in these semi-urban/forest-like areas of minimal forest growth, but enough to move the fire quickly over the landscape. With an increase in growth of these kind of communities, it seems we need more research on fire prevention and control to prevent the great lost of homes, and one would think the home insurance industry would demand it.

huffdiver wrote:Seems to me from the pictures most of these folks never bothered to get a good "defenseable space" around their homes!

There was a fire like this in Oakland a number of years ago. I think more homes were destroyed/damaged.

The enviromentalists had gotten the local courts to forbid homeowners from clearing the underbrush around their homes. Habitat for the Kangaroo Rat, you know.

The thing was, not only were the homes destroyed but the rats got burned up, too.

Wonder if the enviros had anything to do with this?

"Fire hydrants now have the industry standard 4½ and 2½ inch outlets throughout the city. The lack of a standard in 1991 caused numerous difficulties for various agencies who attempted to connect to non-standard hydrants"

It's more than sickening that you take time to attack "enviros" about something 20 years old that have multiple reasons while families in Colorado are in crisis mode.

My friends are 4-5 miles from this fire. They can see the flames from their porch. They have a more than 100 foot clear area, but high winds have been known to blow embers further than that (like the 1991 fire in Oakland). They have packed up a truck already with their personal belongings. My thoughts are with them and all affected by this fire, not about trying to make political points off this event.

Last edited by nogop on June 12th, 2013, 11:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

Still no Colorado air tankers, but relying on Arizona and promises from Obama? 6.2% increase by DEMOs in state budget this year, but evidently not much of the increase went to prevention, equipment and air tankers to fight wildfires. Don't the DEMOs in control of Colorado care?????