Orenthal wrote:I agree and disagree with Windy's take. The part about getting better each year, but being stuck in neutral I agree with. The part about being closer at 22 is nonsense. The roster doesn't get better each year in paragraph 3, then is overall worse in the final paragraph. The tone of the column is interesting

Yet a mnoth and a half ago this team was primed to win it all per Windy. Then within a months time they have fallen off the championship charts. He was on Mike and Mike this morning saying that the Cavs were MAYBE the 5th best team in the league. Maybe this was just a Florida Marlins/eggs in one basket season and screw the next 3+ years, IDK. Is Windy seeing writing on the wall and trying to hitch onto the LBJ wagon so he can go where James goes?

These next few months are going to be brutal with theory after theory on what the kid's gonna do. If he leaves, will an explaination of what happened in this series be given by James himself? Will we be getting tweets that WW Wes, Derrick Rose, Wade, Bosh, Dolan, Jay-Z were all hanging out at the Summit Mall Orange Julius and grabbing a pretzel at Aunt Annies and shopping at Eddie Bauer?

Galley Boys are slop on top of a so-so burger and a bun you coulde get from a Covneninet food mart generic pack. They the Antoine Joubert of burgers; soft, sloppy, oozing grease and cheap sauce and extremely overrated by a biased fan base. Proof that if you throw enough cheap sauce shit on a burger you still can't overcome the lame burger. -JB

JB wrote:Wabo or fudu, is it true he went to the faux garden by himself without the team on their bus?

I've heard that and not just on the radio, took a cab. Man I have to say if that is true, and we all know all sorts of shits get put out there on days like this, but if true I will have a hard time not wanting to fight the guy. IMO that is classless, gutless and way wrong.

Where did you hear that? I'd agree that it was classless, but I haven't heard it myself.

JB wrote:Wabo or fudu, is it true he went to the faux garden by himself without the team on their bus?

I've heard that and not just on the radio, took a cab. Man I have to say if that is true, and we all know all sorts of shits get put out there on days like this, but if true I will have a hard time not wanting to fight the guy. IMO that is classless, gutless and way wrong.

Where did you hear that? I'd agree that it was classless, but I haven't heard it myself.

Orenthal wrote:I agree and disagree with Windy's take. The part about getting better each year, but being stuck in neutral I agree with. The part about being closer at 22 is nonsense. The roster doesn't get better each year in paragraph 3, then is overall worse in the final paragraph. The tone of the column is interesting

Except he didn't say the roster is worse, he said we are further away from a championship. That seems like a legitimate point. In 2007 the aging Detroit Pistons were pretty much all that stood between the Cavs and the NBA finals. Boston was awful and Orlando was Dewey plus nothing else. That summer both Minnesota and Seattle blew up their teams and Boston and Orlando benefited (the Celtics getting Allen and Garnett and the Magic getting Lewis). That summer changed the balance of power in the Eastern Conference greatly. BW didn't choose 22 by accident.

aoxo1 wrote:And obviously the whole team quit. But LeBron is the leader of that team and has subjugated every other player's game to feed off his. That extends to their mental state. So he gets the credit and the blame, both for the results on the court and the attitude/demeanor.

So are bitching about the final 90 seconds or the entire game?

The entire postseason barring about 5-6 quarters, which crescendoed with the end of that game.

edit: should say reached its logical conclusion with the end of that game, but crescendoed with game 5.

Last edited by aoxo1 on Fri May 14, 2010 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

I know more about pizza than you. Much more in fact. - Cerebral_DownTime

Orenthal wrote:I agree and disagree with Windy's take. The part about getting better each year, but being stuck in neutral I agree with. The part about being closer at 22 is nonsense. The roster doesn't get better each year in paragraph 3, then is overall worse in the final paragraph. The tone of the column is interesting

Yet a mnoth and a half ago this team was primed to win it all per Windy. Then within a months time they have fallen off the championship charts. He was on Mike and Mike this morning saying that the Cavs were MAYBE the 5th best team in the league. Maybe this was just a Florida Marlins/eggs in one basket season and screw the next 3+ years, IDK. Is Windy seeing writing on the wall and trying to hitch onto the LBJ wagon so he can go where James goes?

These next few months are going to be brutal with theory after theory on what the kid's gonna do. If he leaves, will an explaination of what happened in this series be given by James himself? Will we be getting tweets that WW Wes, Derrick Rose, Wade, Bosh, Dolan, Jay-Z were all hanging out at the Summit Mall Orange Julius and grabbing a pretzel at Aunt Annies and shopping at Eddie Bauer?

We'll find out more truth surrounding this demise from some book in the years to come, maybe Windy is part of that book? IMO this entire town, media included (and some of the national media) all got sucked into thinking this roster was up to snuff. Again looking at it in context, the context of having the LeBron we knew before & including game 3 the roster might have been. But now, knowing what the roster can and can't do with a disengaged LeBron the roster looks awful.

If LBJ leaves and on personal levels we decide to hate maybe we can take solace in the fact that he will have the most miles on a prime NBA body ever, and as the years go on he will gain weight and maybe slow down. Who knows maybe the beatings and mileage take its toll early, and his best years will have been here and not to come.

Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect."I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

It wasn't some of the national media and don't let all this hindsight revisionist shit fool you.

The Cavs were one of the favorites to win the title all year. They were THE favorite after the Jamison trade. There were still a significant number of people who picked the Lakers or Magic, but the Cavs were THE favorite.

I know more about pizza than you. Much more in fact. - Cerebral_DownTime

Orenthal wrote:I agree and disagree with Windy's take. The part about getting better each year, but being stuck in neutral I agree with. The part about being closer at 22 is nonsense. The roster doesn't get better each year in paragraph 3, then is overall worse in the final paragraph. The tone of the column is interesting

Yet a mnoth and a half ago this team was primed to win it all per Windy. Then within a months time they have fallen off the championship charts. He was on Mike and Mike this morning saying that the Cavs were MAYBE the 5th best team in the league. Maybe this was just a Florida Marlins/eggs in one basket season and screw the next 3+ years, IDK. Is Windy seeing writing on the wall and trying to hitch onto the LBJ wagon so he can go where James goes?

These next few months are going to be brutal with theory after theory on what the kid's gonna do. If he leaves, will an explaination of what happened in this series be given by James himself? Will we be getting tweets that WW Wes, Derrick Rose, Wade, Bosh, Dolan, Jay-Z were all hanging out at the Summit Mall Orange Julius and grabbing a pretzel at Aunt Annies and shopping at Eddie Bauer?

We'll find out more truth surrounding this demise from some book in the years to come, maybe Windy is part of that book? IMO this entire town, media included (and some of the national media) all got sucked into thinking this roster was up to snuff. Again looking at it in context, the context of having the LeBron we knew before & including game 3 the roster might have been. But now, knowing what the roster can and can't do with a disengaged LeBron the roster looks awful.

If LBJ leaves and on personal levels we decide to hate maybe we can take solace in the fact that he will have the most miles on a prime NBA body ever, and as the years go on he will gain weight and maybe slow down. Who knows maybe the beatings and mileage take its toll early, and his best years will have been here and not to come.

Meh.

I am truly thankful I got to watch him and he was on our team for 7 seasons. Except for the mor and price / brad years this franchise has been just aweful.

I have no hate. I wish him well and will always be a fan. He never lied like Art or Thome. He's Albert & Manny. I just really wish the last chapter had been different. It really had a sour ending.

aoxo1 wrote:It wasn't some of the national media and don't let all this hindsight revisionist shit fool you.

The Cavs were one of the favorites to win the title all year. They were THE favorite after the Jamison trade. There were still a significant number of people who picked the Lakers or Magic, but the Cavs were THE favorite.

This.

At least they and the early seventies Bucks have something to talk about.

"It's all about winning for me, and I think the Cavs are committed to doing that," he said. "But at the same time I've given myself options to this point, and like I said before, me and my team, we have a game plan that we're going to execute, and we'll see what we get."

If he leaves I will have hate. The thing that still gets overlooked by some people is how LeBron's actions were huge in the way this team was built. He started his flirtation with leaving right away causing everyone to think we had to win NOW. So instead of growing a team, using draft picks to let it develop organically, we get Larry Hughes, we get 38 year old Shaq, we get Ben Wallace. It's just garbage to not put some of it on him. If he wasnt such a tease about all that shit who knows what could have been. This doesnt excuse the disasters on this roster in the last 7 years, but he isnt free from blame.

(Sorry if I have wrote something similar to this, the last two days have all blurred together)

Honestly though JB, I will have hate, he will be Modell to me. After Manny, Thome, et al leave to take more money for us, for once we can offer the most to our hometown player and he wants to take less. Fuck him. Fuck his team (not Cavs, his "team"). The best player on the planet doesnt have to chase championships. They fucking show up on the big stage and get it done. If he was emotionally and mentally in this series we dont lose to the Celts, and we have no idea what would have been. We didnt lose this series because of his supporting casts, we lost it because he had no interest. We took this exact same Celtics team with 2 less years on their legs to 7 games willed by Lebron with absolutely no supporting cast. That team had Ben Wallace, Wally and Z starting. Dear god. Others dont have to hate him, but I hate him for pissing down his leg.

Can you believe I had a night to sleep on it?

Last edited by Ziner on Fri May 14, 2010 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

Ziner wrote:If he leaves I will have hate. The thing that still gets overlooked by some people is how LeBron's actions were huge in the way this team was built. He started his flirtation with leaving right away causing everyone to think we had to win NOW. So instead of growing a team, using draft picks to let it develop organically, we get Larry Hughes, we get 38 year old Shaq, we get Ben Wallace. It's just garbage to not put some of it on him. If he wasnt such a tease about all that shit who knows what could have been. This doesnt excuse the disasters on this roster in the last 7 years, but he isnt free from blame.

(Sorry if I have wrote something similar to this, the last two days have all blurred together)

Honestly though JB, I will have hate, he will be Modell to me. After Manny, Thome, et al leave to take more money for us, for once we can offer the most to our hometown player and he wants to take less. Fuck him. Fuck his team (not Cavs, his "team"). The best player on the planet doesnt have to chase championships. They fucking show up on the big stage and get it done. If he was emotionally and mentally in this series we dont lose to the Celts, and we have no idea what would have been. We didnt lose this series because of his supporting casts, we lost it because he had no interest. We took this exact same Celtics team with 2 less years on their legs to 7 games willed by Lebron with absolutely no supporting cast. That team had Ben Wallace, Wally and Z starting. Dear god. Others dont have to hate him, but I hate him for pissing down his leg.

Ziner wrote:If he leaves I will have hate. The thing that still gets overlooked by some people is how LeBron's actions were huge in the way this team was built. He started his flirtation with leaving right away causing everyone to think we had to win NOW. So instead of growing a team, using draft picks to let it develop organically, we get Larry Hughes, we get 38 year old Shaq, we get Ben Wallace. It's just garbage to not put some of it on him. If he wasnt such a tease about all that shit who knows what could have been. This doesnt excuse the disasters on this roster in the last 7 years, but he isnt free from blame.

JB was all over this take last year. Can't say I disagree.

I know more about pizza than you. Much more in fact. - Cerebral_DownTime

I don't buy for a second what Windy and others are spewing about the roster being flawed and the Cavs being maybe (maybe, maybe, maybe) the fifth best team in the league.

Horse shit. Squared.

This team had the ability to play any style of basketball against any team. To say that matchups and roster shortcomings had any hand in this clusterfuck absolves Mike Brown and LeBron James of blame.

KG shot over Jamo and stepped around Shaq. I get that. Rondo was unreal at times. I get that. But NONE OF THAT explains passive offense, failure to box out, MB's inability to adjust, LBJ's deer-in-headlights act, Mo disappearing for all but a couple of stretches, Delonte's failure to show in any real way, the lack of Hickson (who is the worst non-Bron mismatch the Cavs could have trotted out there) and the metric ton of unforced turnovers in each game. You correct even half those problems, we're gearing up for Orlando right now.

This team was good enough to be the favorite to win the NBA title. Not a question in my mind. The talent was there, the tools were there. They just went out and failed miserably.

Ziner wrote:If he leaves I will have hate. The thing that still gets overlooked by some people is how LeBron's actions were huge in the way this team was built. He started his flirtation with leaving right away causing everyone to think we had to win NOW. So instead of growing a team, using draft picks to let it develop organically, we get Larry Hughes, we get 38 year old Shaq, we get Ben Wallace. It's just garbage to not put some of it on him. If he wasnt such a tease about all that shit who knows what could have been. This doesnt excuse the disasters on this roster in the last 7 years, but he isnt free from blame.

JB was all over this take last year. Can't say I disagree.

Not everyone has been in the win now mode, but 95% were. Some were arguing to go young as early as the Hughes off season, but none of that matters now.

Cass, people are still too scared (or whatever) to really place this loss as an underachievement. They still need to qualify that statement, even if they precede or follow the equivocation with several paragraphs on how it was.

I know more about pizza than you. Much more in fact. - Cerebral_DownTime

FUDU wrote:I don't why this others me so much, 23 years removed from the Bernie days and 16 from his removal, but man...

I kind of feel like I finally got to take the one girl to the prom, the girl I always had my eye on, that everyone liked, and that she left with somebody else.

I should probably go turf a lawn now.

Some star crossed TCE shit man.

We all had visions of having our home grown MJ. Instead we got a few years of Karl Malone.

He's gone bro. Let it go. Be happy you got to feel her up before dinner.

Sick part was while typing that I was listening to REO Speedwagon, Take it on the Run.

Sicker part is when LBJ figures it out and starts racking up titles for the Knicks or a similar team. Because if he does leave, things will start falling into place for him so fast your head will spin. He'll develop the Jordan eye. His supporting cast will start stepping up in the playoffs instead of disappearing.

FUDU wrote:I don't why this others me so much, 23 years removed from the Bernie days and 16 from his removal, but man...

I kind of feel like I finally got to take the one girl to the prom, the girl I always had my eye on, that everyone liked, and that she left with somebody else.

I should probably go turf a lawn now.

Some star crossed TCE shit man.

We all had visions of having our home grown MJ. Instead we got a few years of Karl Malone.

He's gone bro. Let it go. Be happy you got to feel her up before dinner.

Sick part was while typing that I was listening to REO Speedwagon, Take it on the Run.

Sicker part is when LBJ figures it out and starts racking up titles for the Knicks or a similar team. Because if he does leave, things will start falling into place for him so fast your head will spin. He'll develop the Jordan eye. His supporting cast will start stepping up in the playoffs instead of disappearing.

Bill Belichick. Art Modell. I've seen it with my own eyes.

Are you basing that just on because that's our luck or do you sincerely believe that?

Since I can't cut and paste the whole post I'll just give you the begining. You should read the whole thing, though.

The clock ticks down – 56 seconds … 55 seconds … 54 seconds — and Mike Brown waves his arms, and his players just stand there. They just bleeping stand there. You know they’re not going to win. I know they’re not going to win. Boston is beating Cleveland by nine, and that’s too much. There are no miracles left, not for this disappointing Cleveland team, not for this wooden version of LeBron James. They are not going to win, not tonight, I know that, everybody knows that. But they just stand there. They just bleeping stand there.

aoxo1 wrote:Cass, people are still too scared (or whatever) to really place this loss as an underachievement. They still need to qualify that statement, even if they precede or follow the equivocation with several paragraphs on how it was.

Yes, that's what it is. Labeling it as an underchievement gives us nightmares.

We should instead whine about how LBJ quit all the way back to game 1 of the playoffs. You know, how in round 1 he quit his way to 31.8 PPG, 56.7% from the field, and 13 for 24 from the 3 point line.

Or how in game 3 of the Boston series LBJ played like he usually does. He's a quitter!

If you think the argument is whether this loss should be considered an under achievement or not then you really don't understand the discussion. It makes about as much sense as saying that LBJ quit against Chicago.

Christ ajunior. Where did I say he quit against Chicago? I said the symptoms were there all the way back.

Or did you forget about the Cavs' lack of focus and intensity in that series?

Keep throwing up those #'s, like they mean something. But we all saw LeBron dominate in only spurts against the Bulls, as the Cavs underperformed in that series. We just chalked it up to not taking a completely outmatched opponent seriously. Then we saw him put up one great quarter against the Celtics, CULMINATING in the game 5 debacle and the game 6 quit.

I know more about pizza than you. Much more in fact. - Cerebral_DownTime

At the risk of being labeled as a LeBron apologist, watching him shoot jumpers in this series said to me that there was something wrong with the elbow. I think it was obvious based on his shooting motion, and my guess is that he was attempting to prevent that fact from becoming exposed and known. It is much easier for them to question his intensity and think he is just not playing hard than it was for them to flat-out know he couldn't shoot.

This is all rehash. Yes, LB was a bit pushy, but he's from around Cle and has seen crappy owners before. It made sense to force Gilbert to prove himself. The problem is Ferry and his lack of an eye for talent. He chose Hughes and Yell over Redd. Redd was better than either, and was always tradeable. The list is endless - Ferry almost got Bibby, Scola, Amare, D Blair, Ariza, S Jackson, and on and on. He nearly hit on Hickson. Like Eye said, he let Wally's chip expire.I'm on record as saying Ferry's legacy would be defined by the 2009 trade deadline. He actually got another chance and this year came up with Jamison, who some of us suspected couldn't shoot under playoff pressure. And he stuck with M Brown.The issue is clouded bec I truly believe LB was injured. Someone needed to step up in games 4,5 and 6. No one did, bec they can't. Delonte, Mo and Tawn are what they are. For Boston, guys stepped up bec they are HoFers. Maybe old but still first rate one or two games out of 3. Our roster is nothing w/o LB.There's still time. I still think my sign and trade for Boozer, JJohnson or even Bosh scenario could work. Or something else that is cleverer than me or even Eye. But it's not coming from the bald doofus.

To clarify: we saw an inconsistent, unfocused LeBron and hence Cavs team (the rest of his team is completely reliant on his mental state as well as his play on the court) that was able to beat a completely overmatched Bulls team in spit of their inconsistency. We all chalked that up to disinterest and knowing they would beat the Bulls.

I don't see how we can still think that in light of 2 home blowouts and a complete quit when not even down double digits in an elimination game. Especially with what Windhorst has put out the past week.

As per the underachievement, that was more of a comment on the media reaction. Plenty of articles placing this in that context and placing blame on LeBron, but in the next breath backing off it. TONS of coverage ignoring the utter quit and the 180 degree shift in personality/mentality that occured.

I know more about pizza than you. Much more in fact. - Cerebral_DownTime

aoxo1 wrote:Christ ajunior. Where did I say he quit against Chicago? I said the symptoms were there all the way back.

Or did you forget about the Cavs' lack of focus and intensity in that series?

Keep throwing up those #'s, like they mean something. But we all saw LeBron dominate in only spurts against the Bulls, as the Cavs underperformed in that series. We just chalked it up to not taking a completely outmatched opponent seriously. Then we saw him put up one great quarter against the Celtics, CULMINATING in the game 5 debacle and the game 6 quit.

You started a thread about him quitting. I asked you to clarify, and you said all post season.

Now you are throwing up straw men about how I don't want to call it an under achievement. When did I say that? Of course this is a massive under achievement, otherwise you wouldn't be so upset about this. You're emotional, you're looking for an outlet, and you aren't being rational.

Yes, we struggled to defend Rose. Is anyone surprised by that? We have a slug at center, a combo forward playing the 4 for us, and a PG that is a below average defender. We’ve always struggled against the quick PG’s.

But to say that LBJ was showing signs of quitting (or however you want to call it since now you’re trying to justify that post) in the first round is terrible. Looking past his PPG and %’s, the guy was very good defensively. He blocked over 2 shots per game and got over 1 steal per game. He grabbed rebounds. He had all of those assists.

You want to dismiss his numbers because they don’t agree with how you want to feel. Fine. I’m done trying to stop you, but I’ve laid out where I stand and my reasoning. You’ve chosen to wallow in your pity and are going to point your anger towards someone that you’ve only appreciated for damn near 7 years, all because of one series.

I mean who cares that he struggled to hit outside shots so he crashed the boards and grabbed 19 rebounds? He quit!!!!!!! It’s that simple!!!!!

aoxo1 wrote:And yes, I have stated before I can buy the elbow excuse for underperforming. But not for the about face effort/personality/leadership-wise.

This I can agree with, the guy definitely should have handled himself better. But this is the first time in his life that he wasn't effective. I give him a pass for responding to it poorly. Why do we expect him to be perfect at everything?

Let him learn from this, and if he doesn't I'll join in on the bitching.

aoxo1 wrote:To clarify: we saw an inconsistent, unfocused LeBron and hence Cavs team (the rest of his team is completely reliant on his mental state as well as his play on the court) that was able to beat a completely overmatched Bulls team in spit of their inconsistency. We all chalked that up to disinterest and knowing they would beat the Bulls.

Something that is important to consider... Can we assume that a team starting slow ass Shaq and Antawn Jamison will be a great defensive team? I don't think that's the case.

It's just like the Eric Snow/Damon Jones combo. Need someone to score in the post? Bring in Shaq at center. Need someone to spread the floor? Lets go with Jamison. Need someone to defend? Let's try Andy at that.

ajunior148 wrote:You started a thread about him quitting. I asked you to clarify, and you said all post season.

No, this is a misunderstanding. I am bitching about the entire postseason, but the quitting part only applies to the end. I just see it as a long narrative culminating int the quit.

Now you are throwing up straw men about how I don't want to call it an under achievement. When did I say that? Of course this is a massive under achievement, otherwise you wouldn't be so upset about this. You're emotional, you're looking for an outlet, and you aren't being rational.

No, that wasn't about you at all. That was about some of the media articles that have been coming out (specifically Windhorst's).

Yes, we struggled to defend Rose. Is anyone surprised by that? We have a slug at center, a combo forward playing the 4 for us, and a PG that is a below average defender. We’ve always struggled against the quick PG’s.

But to say that LBJ was showing signs of quitting (or however you want to call it since now you’re trying to justify that post) in the first round is terrible. Looking past his PPG and %’s, the guy was very good defensively. He blocked over 2 shots per game and got over 1 steal per game. He grabbed rebounds. He had all of those assists.

Are you going to disagree that he was extremely inconsistent in that series? Looking back, his and the team's lack of focus/intensity in that series sure seems like a precursor to what happened in the Boston series to me. YMMV.

You want to dismiss his numbers because they don’t agree with how you want to feel. Fine. I’m done trying to stop you, but I’ve laid out where I stand and my reasoning. You’ve chosen to wallow in your pity and are going to point your anger towards someone that you’ve only appreciated for damn near 7 years, all because of one series.

I mean who cares that he struggled to hit outside shots so he crashed the boards and grabbed 19 rebounds? He quit!!!!!!! It’s that simple!!!!!

Yes, he did. In game 5 when he stood around in the corner on offense, let his attitude affect the rest of the team (although this was going on the entire postseason, IMO), and stopped playing defense. And then in game 6 the entire team followed his attitude at the end of the game.

deleted

Last edited by aoxo1 on Fri May 14, 2010 2:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I know more about pizza than you. Much more in fact. - Cerebral_DownTime

aoxo1 wrote:And yes, I have stated before I can buy the elbow excuse for underperforming. But not for the about face effort/personality/leadership-wise.

This I can agree with, the guy definitely should have handled himself better. But this is the first time in his life that he wasn't effective. I give him a pass for responding to it poorly. Why do we expect him to be perfect at everything?

Let him learn from this, and if he doesn't I'll join in on the bitching.

But I don't think he quit game 6. Game 5, hell yes.

I don't think he quit in game 6 until that ball bounced off his foot, and then it wasn't obvious until the very end.

Until then he gave excellent effort for the most part.

I know more about pizza than you. Much more in fact. - Cerebral_DownTime

aoxo1 wrote:And yes, I have stated before I can buy the elbow excuse for underperforming. But not for the about face effort/personality/leadership-wise.

This I can agree with, the guy definitely should have handled himself better. But this is the first time in his life that he wasn't effective. I give him a pass for responding to it poorly. Why do we expect him to be perfect at everything?

Let him learn from this, and if he doesn't I'll join in on the bitching.

But I don't think he quit game 6. Game 5, hell yes.

I don't think he quit in game 6 until that ball bounced off his foot, and then it wasn't obvious until the very end.

Until then he gave excellent effort for the most part.

Fair enough. It's water under the bridge anyway.

So how long until we start to discuss offseason possibilities? And do we discuss them with LBJ on the roster or without? Because I'm ready to mention my Devin Harris idea (if LBJ stays) once we move past this bickering (and I'm guilty of that as well), but I'll give it a day or two to start.

Orenthal wrote:I agree and disagree with Windy's take. The part about getting better each year, but being stuck in neutral I agree with. The part about being closer at 22 is nonsense. The roster doesn't get better each year in paragraph 3, then is overall worse in the final paragraph. The tone of the column is interesting

Except he didn't say the roster is worse, he said we are further away from a championship. That seems like a legitimate point. In 2007 the aging Detroit Pistons were pretty much all that stood between the Cavs and the NBA finals. Boston was awful and Orlando was Dewey plus nothing else. That summer both Minnesota and Seattle blew up their teams and Boston and Orlando benefited (the Celtics getting Allen and Garnett and the Magic getting Lewis). That summer changed the balance of power in the Eastern Conference greatly. BW didn't choose 22 by accident.

Good point Wags, was stepping out of the office and didn't really take the time to think that all through. Just something about how negative Windy has gotten, maybe its me reading too much into things. Or just the sea change since game 5.

"When a man with money meets a man with experience, the man with experience leaves with money and the man with money leaves with experience."

aoxo1 wrote:It wasn't some of the national media and don't let all this hindsight revisionist shit fool you.

The Cavs were one of the favorites to win the title all year. They were THE favorite after the Jamison trade. There were still a significant number of people who picked the Lakers or Magic, but the Cavs were THE favorite.

DSkills already hit on this, but yes, now that we got punked the roster sucks. The Celtics were a bunch of old stiffs 3 weeks ago, yet now they have a champions heart. This roster had more then enough talent to get the job done. Roadblocks were the coach with no plan, the org selling out to its superstar at all costs, and the superstar himself.

Can we all agree that Roker is a brilliant regular season defensive minded coach, and an all-around horrible playoff coach?

"When a man with money meets a man with experience, the man with experience leaves with money and the man with money leaves with experience."