In the fastest five minutes of the year, Yosemite sold all the permits to climb Half Dome for weekends in May and June. For weekdays, the new required permits sold out in 23 minutes.

"We knew they wouldn't last a day," said Kari Cobb at Yosemite National Park. "It's the most popular hike in the park."

The rush could make the April 1 event, when Half Dome permits for July go on sale at 7 a.m., the most intense two or three minutes of the vacation season. If you're lucky, for a service fee of $1.50, you can get four permits.

On the first day of sales last year, when Yosemite first required climbing permits for weekends at Half Dome, they sold out in 32 minutes.

That is a problem, especially if they actively prohibit people from leaving their extra chits with the ranger at the base of the dome steps (Which I believe was going on last year)..

But the real issue with this sort of thing is that it appears to be fair, but isn't. The technically savvy with good internet skills and equipment have a big advantage. People with perfectly ordered schedules have a great advantage over those whose dates can't be determined that far in advance. People who can be at their desk at the moment that the reservations open have a great advantage over those whose life requires them to be doing something else at that moment. Plus, by creating nearly free chits with high value, they encourage all kinds of ticket scalping behavior to occur.

Personally, I think that the new system stinks. Even some sort of on-line raffle would beat their new technological stampede. A thoughtful analysis of the system would reveal that its only virtue is that it allows the Park Service to tell unhappy people that it's too bad, but there is nothing to be done about their not having obtained a permit....

I've done the hike many times myself, but doubt that I will be able to do it again in the future.

Quoteeeek
Campsite reservations have the same problem. I suspect a good number of sites get reserved by bots and then resold.

Does Inyo NF have similar problems with their Whitney lottery system, or would a lottery reduce this problem? I've entered day-one lotteries for wilderness permits at Grand Canyon, Boundary Waters, Yellowstone, Glacier...seems workable.

Remember though, these permits that sold out are for day hikers, according to the National Parks Yosemite's website: "Backpackers with an appropriate wilderness permit can receive a Half Dome permit when they pick up their wilderness permit with no additional reservation required." So if you plan your Half Dome ascent as part of an overnight wilderness backpacking trip, you should still have a fair chance of getting a permit to ascend Half Dome via the cables.

The other option, of course, is to take a rock climbers route. Rock climbers that don't go near the cables do not need a permit to ascend Half Dome, but they are allowed to use the cables (without a permit) on their descent.

Quoteplawrence
Remember though, these permits that sold out are for day hikers, according to the National Parks Yosemite's website: "Backpackers with an appropriate wilderness permit can receive a Half Dome permit when they pick up their wilderness permit with no additional reservation required." So if you plan your Half Dome ascent as part of an overnight wilderness backpacking trip, you should still have a fair chance of getting a permit to ascend Half Dome via the cables.

And we backpackers know already how wonderfully easy it is to get a wilderness permit from Happy Isles, or Cathedral, or Sunrise, or any other trailhead that easily leads one to that region of the park. [ / sarcasm ] Waiting in line is easy, in some respects, but frustrating to be third in line and the two people in front of you snurch up all the permits for their groups. Good luck with the reserved permit process, which is as bad as getting a campsite reserved - only instead of being on the computer you're on the phone redialing 10,000 times, or trying to fax and redialing 10,000 times.

I'm actually happy they are throttling the number of people on that route. Also very happy that there is a whole mountain range attached to the dome that has hundreds of other rocks to stand on, that I won't be sharing the trail with 1,000 people at a time. Fair? How fair is it to get to the subdome and end up suffering heat exhaustion standing in line for five hours on granite while jerks play on the cables, or tourists petrified by the slope of the granite freeze in place for half an hour? Talk about unsafe conditions - get elbow to elbow tourists between two cables and then let a rainstorm blow in - everyone who stood in line and busted their feet up getting there who is determined to get to the top or else will refuse to bug out despite the recommendations of the park not to go up in the rain.

The ongoing problems and repeat discussions regarding Half Dome pretty much center on the cables themselves because that's the choke point. Has it occurred to anyone that were it not for the cables, the top of this dome would be no more accessible to the general public than any other rock in the park suitable for climbers only? Would you put rope ladders on El Cap? Of course not! In hindsite I think putting cables on Half Dome long ago was a mistake but nobody back then could have envisioned the present day problems it creates. There is an easy solution to this annual problem----shut it down and remove the cables once and for all. There are superior hikes and views of Yosemite Valley from other vantage points. Just my very biased opinion.

I'm for increased ACCESS to Yosemite.Keep the permit system, but improve it by addressing the deficiencies in the current permit issuance system.Issue 50% MORE permits a day.Add another cable so that you have 3 cables. That way people can safely go up and down at the same time.

And don't whine about it being a 'wilderness' and we can't add another cable.No part of that trail up to the top of HD is "WILDERNESS". heck, you pass 3 bathrooms on the way!

( take a few deep breaths, pause, a few more deep breaths, calm down . . . )

hot button issue as so many in Yosemite are. . .

what is this issue about?safetyaccessretaining the 'wilderness' of an areathe experiencetrail impact from #s of people?

Quotetomdisco
The ongoing problems and repeat discussions regarding Half Dome pretty much center on the cables themselves because that's the choke point. Has it occurred to anyone that were it not for the cables, the top of this dome would be no more accessible to the general public than any other rock in the park suitable for climbers only? Would you put rope ladders on El Cap? Of course not! In hindsite I think putting cables on Half Dome long ago was a mistake but nobody back then could have envisioned the present day problems it creates. There is an easy solution to this annual problem----shut it down and remove the cables once and for all. There aryosemitenews.infoews of Yosemite Valley from other vantage points. Just my very biased opinion.

Quotetomdisco
The ongoing problems and repeat discussions regarding Half Dome pretty much center on the cables themselves because that's the choke point. Has it occurred to anyone that were it not for the cables, the top of this dome would be no more accessible to the general public than any other rock in the park suitable for climbers only? Would you put rope ladders on El Cap? Of course not! In hindsite I think putting cables on Half Dome long ago was a mistake but nobody back then could have envisioned the present day problems it creates. There is an easy solution to this annual problem----shut it down and remove the cables once and for all. There aryosemitenews.infoews of Yosemite Valley from other vantage points. Just my very biased opinion.

I'm still waiting for one of the folks I've met who are training for Half Dome to come up with an answer that makes sense. WHY Half Dome? Why that hike? Why not Hoffman, Dana, North Dome, El Capitan, Eagle Peak, or the eleventy jillion other granite knobs/peaks anywhere?

Sure, okay, the value you place on it is subjective - but when the only thing that makes it unique is that it's the only hike other than Whitney where you go up a feces-strewn freeway of a trail with thousands of other people after getting permits far in advance...

Shut the dome down already. Why spend all the money and manpower on it? Rip out the cables and let people climb it or not on their own. Let them pay a guiding outfit to rope them up and go up it - they'll be safer. Make it less "special" and disperse the traffic jam. Make it completely fair - return the dome to its natural state and give everyone the same conditions they have for every OTHER peak in the park. No permits! No cables! No rangers! Bring YOUR OWN equipment, whether you need just hiking boots or full-on climbing gear, and do whatever ascent you plan safely, or unsafely, or don't do it at all. Your choice.

Why Half Dome? It's simple, because what other rock can you climb in Yosemite that has a T-shirt that you can buy to commemorate your endeavor! All the gift shops have T-shirts saying that you climbed Half Dome! There are no shirts honoring going to the top of Clouds Rest, etc.

I know that sounds too simple of an explanation as to "Why Half Dome", but it almost makes sense......? Get rid of the T-shirts and the hike to Half Dome won't be so popular. I know, that's too easy (and crazy) of a solution. It was worth a try (and a laugh?).

I'm decided that if I do go up Whitney, no guarantee of that really, I will go up and down the west side, and come out somewhere other than on the urine trail. It's not really about destination for me, but the journey - I want to enjoy the journey too.

Big and in your face - that's every rock in Yosemite! Still not really answering my question.

All the rocks - El Cap, Clouds Rest, North Dome, Sentinel Dome - they all do the same thing! with the added benefits of not being a traffic jam, plus, you get great views of Half Dome.

You are just a couple hundred feet shy of the top of Half Dome at Sentinel Dome - yet tis underrated due to being some measly short little hike and not having ludicrous rules and permitting problems. Ridiculous. Great views! Where else in the world can you have a leisurely lunch overlooking Yosemite Valley without making reservations?

It is rather to say - don't get all upset because you didn't get a permit. There are PLENTY of rocks all over the place that are also AWESOME, even ones you can get to without blistering your feet and dying on the switchbacks because you only brought half a liter of water. You can always go next year, or next decade. Half Dome doesn't really go anywhere from one year to the next.

(shhh....I have a sooper sekret to share: I've never climbed Half Dome). (where is that :shock: emoticon when you need it?)

I've done a *lot* of other stuff but I've never felt a pull to HD or a desire to do it. Other mountains, yes - last year I finally did Conness which was a huge 'bucket list' peak for me. Not difficult, I just kept putting it off in favor of other peaks, and every time I'd drive through Tioga Pass I'd think "next time...." And FINALLY, last Memorial Day weekend, I finally stopped and did that sucker. Loved every second of it too. And didn't see another soul until the summit ridge on our kind of random route. I've never felt that way with HD. Sure, if the right opportunity came along I wouldn't NOT do it, but I have about 250 other peaks ahead of it on my must-dos.

Felt the same way about Whitney, but I have done that one several times. In that peak's case it's always been the cherry at the end of a bigger trip like the JMT or the HST, not done for the sake of doing Mt Whitney. Glad I've done it? Heck yeah. Would I make special plans and battle that lottery process to go back? Heck no. I have my eye on some other 14ers a bit to the north of it this summer anyways...

I haven't climbed HD, either. Besides...this fact is part of our profiles.

But I think the Yosemite Nature Notes series did a good job of discussing the wilderness management conundrum related to those who do see HD as a life goal (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihNpkUp5JdM). I don't need to fight the crowds, though.

I've been up there a number of times. And was glad there were cables.Should they take them down? That's a really tough question.I'd almost lean to taking them down just to put it back more like it was and make it have an allure to it.

To the people that say Clouds has better views.... hmmph...is the destination the only goal? Mist is far superior hike in terms of views. hands downIf view is your only goal then just drive to Glacier Pt.

As to "why". Well, cmon... ask 20 random people if they know Half Dome.Half Dome is Yosemite. (which is ok)Why do people run marathons? Why the need to run a formal one?It's just a goal of a lot of people.Goals are good. It keeps you motivated. Keeps you on track.Almost, encourage the guy. Don't rain on his parade.Half Dome is a v. difficult hike for 99% of peeps out there and requires training.It's a goal. Let them achieve it and be happy for them.Then take them to Dana, Hoffman, etc.And think long and hard where you wouldn't be going if there wasn't a nicemaintained trail...

Oh, I'm pretty sure no one will take me seriously - I am positive I am labeled a miserable old killjoy crank, jaded, what have you.

But I organize group hikes all the time, and take people of all fitness and skill levels to all kinds of places, all over Yosemite and the rest of the mountain range... and pretty much the one single destination that inspires people to suffer like crazy for no really good reason is Half Dome. Anywhere else and people approach the trip quite rationally. The minute I put Half Dome on the calendar a zillion people signed up (this was before permits) and the people who came failed to read anything about what to bring, how to prepare, do anything at all beforehand to make the trip something less than 16 miles of blood blister covered feet - and they resisted every suggestion of taking a break, turning around, etc.

Yes, I'm a total killjoy, telling people there are easier things to do with equal or better scenic potential. No doubt many many people find the trip worthwhile - I'm among those who didn't suffer quite as much as most. I can hike 17 mile days with a backpack without real ramifications. But 90% of the folks I hike with on a regular basis, not so much. General tourist population of Yosemite, not so much. Would they find my assertions that they would be happier climbing North Dome useful? Nope! Half Dome is the only thing in Yosemite! Well, okay, it's cool, but is it worth all the trouble? eh. I've done a lot of other things too, unlike many of the dome goers, so I have some reason behind claiming other places are "more" worth it.

Jaded? Not at all! Tired of watching people suffer for something needlessly? sure. The permitting is icing on the cake. If you can get a permit you're fortunate because now, it means you won't share the cables with 1,000 people, just 400. Awesome! it's much safer that way. Do you let yourself get angry and frustrated because you didn't get a permit? well, there are lots of other things to do and if you do an 8 mile hike to North Dome and it totally exhausts you, something to consider for the next Half Dome attempt!

People will for sure do whatever they please no matter what I say. They always do. That's cool by me - I like to hear everyone's opinions and make up my own mind, too.

I always like to do half dome as kind of a spring warmup hike. Same as almost there - friends always want me to take them there and they always show up unprepared. They always whine when I make them get up at 4am to start the hike and then thank me when we come down through the hoards of people of all walks of life. I do a lot of backpacking and don't really consider this a wilderness experience. I wouldn't even go into the valley for 20 years because of the crowds but as I age and mellow I have been going there because it is awesome. For some reason the carnival atmosphere on the half dome hike is half the fun for me. People who don't belong there get a chance to do something really knarly even if they are in terrible shape. I'm always surprised by the people that make it to the top. 35 years ago we camped on top when it was still legal. About 10 years ago the crowds started getting crazy and it became dangerous. My last trip 3 years ago my daughter and I watched a body pulled off by the chopper and we decided we'd had enough so I no longer do that hike. There are so many other awesome hikes.

A similar hike is Angel's landing in Zion. A series of chains were installed up there something like 80 years ago so people who have no business being there flock there because they can. It's pretty exhilarating as any slip for about a 1/4 mile stretch is a 1200 foot free fall. I was questioning the wisdom of having my daughter with me on that trail 2 years ago the day after thanksgiving. The crowds were out of control and people had trouble getting by each other while still holding onto the chains - kind of like the half dome cable gridlock. Sure enough a 40 something woman was trying to let people pass and fell over the edge. It was horrific for all who had to experience that. Totally due to the crowds. They have no permit system for that hike.

Still I think people should have the right to do these hikes. The park service needs to figure out a better way for crowd control, education and permits. This half dome permit thing is a joke - I think something like the Whitney lottery system would be fairer. Those valley campgrounds are the most hideous campsites I've ever stayed in and still people flock there. Location location location!

One other great thing about the half dome situation. It keeps a lot of people out of my favorite places while they are busy torturing themselves. The high country seems way more crowded lately too. Well there is always cross country.

Quoteapeman45Still I think people should have the right to do these hikes. The park service needs to figure out a better way for crowd control, education and permits. This half dome permit thing is a joke - I think something like the Whitney lottery system would be fairer. Those valley campgrounds are the most hideous campsites I've ever stayed in and still people flock there. Location location location!

I think I was fortunate because I've done HD and Angels Landing, and neither time was what I would call crowded. I did HD on a Thursday as part of a backpacking trip. I got to the cables at about 10:30 AM and there were so few people on the cables that I could easily use both hands across both cables the large majority of the way up. Angels Landing was a breeze. There were pretty much no backups. I did take the first shuttle from Springdale, so it might have been before the real rush. Still - it was so hot that I can't imagine any sane person would start that hike later than I did (when the temps were more manageable).

An early start on the HD hike, especially on weekdays always avoids the crowds. As long as you hit the cables by 11:00 crowds aren't that bad. On weekends around 1:00 seems to be the gridlock time and then a ton of people line up and then put themselves into danger with not only the crowds but thunderstorm danger too.

Yea 1st shuttle on Angels'landing is the way to go. During Thanksgiving the shuttles aren't mandatory so there seemed to be a lot more people. It was really crowded that day compared to the 1st time I did it in the summer via the 1st shuttle which was a nice uncrowded hike.

I'll brag about 17 miles with 6,000 feet of gain - without pain and suffering. That may not have had an icon at the end of it, but it's sure not something everyone can do.

So tell us, what was the reason why YOU decided to climb to the top of Half Dome the first time you did it?

And what is the main reason why you still repeat the hike?

Just curious...

Wondering why you think I repeat the hike? I went once with a friend for her birthday. I went again, and refused to go up the cables because they were too crowded. There was a booze fest raging on the top, apparently, and people were being jerks. I had a nap on the granite while others opted to risk the jerkfest and we hiked back down. Well, I hiked. Most of them crawled and moaned.

Anyone can hike their feet to bloody stumps - I don't have to be there to watch. Takes *them* no effort to do things and spend a week recovering... they don't believe me when I tell them they won't enjoy it, they suffer, they are miserable. I'd rather enjoy my time in the wilderness not suffering and not carrying someone else's junk for them while they suffer. There's a lot more to be seen than one rock covered in tourists, thanks.

I DO hike the mist trail many times, however - to the top of Nevada Falls, where you leave the trail to go to the Diving Board. Also to head past LYV to Bunnell Cascades, Merced Lake, and a ton of other fantastic places. Also, Clouds Rest, the long way - people dayhike the 22 mile RT to practice for Whitney dayhikes.

I'll brag about 17 miles with 6,000 feet of gain - without pain and suffering. That may not have had an icon at the end of it, but it's sure not something everyone can do.

So tell us, what was the reason why YOU decided to climb to the top of Half Dome the first time you did it?

And what is the main reason why you still repeat the hike?

Just curious...

Wondering why you think I repeat the hike? I went once with a friend for her birthday. I went again, and refused to go up the cables because they were too crowded.

Because in a previous post on this thread you wrote the following:

QuoteAlmostThereBut I organize group hikes all the time, and take people of all fitness and skill levels to all kinds of places, all over Yosemite and the rest of the mountain range... and pretty much the one single destination that inspires people to suffer like crazy for no really good reason is Half Dome. Anywhere else and people approach the trip quite rationally. The minute I put Half Dome on the calendar a zillion people signed up (this was before permits) and the people who came failed to read anything about what to bring, how to prepare, do anything at all beforehand to make the trip something less than 16 miles of blood blister covered feet - and they resisted every suggestion of taking a break, turning around, etc.

So I presumed, based on that post, that you have hiked to the top of Half Dome more than once.

So I presumed, based on that post, that you have hiked to the top of Half Dome more than once.

BTW, why did your friend want to climb Half Dome for her birthday?

Bragging rights? Bucket List?

Because she wanted to wave a little flag and promote some sort of health supplement she sells. Also, she chickened out when she was 20 and wanted to prove to herself she could do it. *shrug* She's a friend. I support friends even when I think their goals are silly.

I led one group hike to HD and it won't happen again. I thought that was pretty clear why. I like my hiking group too much to tempt them to that crawling, miserable descent - too many of them are far too optimistic for their own good.

Longer, harder stuff... I have a different group of folks for stuff like that. We've moved on to things like cross country rambles to the Ionian basin.

QuoteAlmostThere
. . . snip . . .I DO hike the mist trail many times, however - to the top of Nevada Falls, where you leave the trail to go to the Diving Board.. . . snip . . .

Are you getting there by going between Broderick and Liberty and past Lost Lake, or is there a more direct route you could describe?

We did a less bushwacky route by getting up into Little Yosemite Valley where the trail forks and popping over the ridge then backtracking past Lost Lake. There are use trails all through there. We got a little off track and nearly ended up on the climber's route, but there is class 1/class 2 if you keep going low and left/south. More direct means climber's gear, which I don't have.

For me, bragging rights, I guess so. I plan to hike in from Tuolumne Meadows, so I won't be doing the one day grind. It is impressive to look at Half Dome from the valley floor and imagine hiking to the top. I think part of the reason it is so popular is that it is a Yosemite Icon. Standing on an Icon might be more meaningful than a better, but lesser known spot. To some degree Half Dome is Yosemite, at least on a postcard level.

Icon, per Wikipedia:it is a sign or likeness that stands for an object by signifying or representing it either concretely or by analogy, as in semiotics; by extension, icon is also used, particularly in modern culture, in the general sense of symbol — i.e. a name, face, picture, edifice or even a person readily recognized as having some well-known significance or embodying certain qualities: one thing, an image or depiction, that represents something else of greater significance through literal or figurative meaning, usually associated with religious, cultural, political, or economic standing.

Probably my favorite T-shirt that I ever bought at Yosemite was one that said on back of it in BIG BOLD PRINT: MADE IT TO THE TOP with a large image of Half Dome. But in much smaller letters on top of that, stated: I Didn't

:-)

(And on the front of the T-Shirt it had the small Half-Dome logo that DNC uses with the words "Laid back in Yosemite" encircling the logo.)

QuotetomdiscoBragging rights are over rated. I get more satisfaction talking to folks about place names in the back country that draw blank stares. Tickles me funny bone.

Yes, they are over rated. But the question being answered is why people want to do the Half Dome hike.

They don't know any better? Seriously, it seems like half of them attempt it because somebody somewhere gave them the impression it's the thing to do, like anybody can do it. Unfortunately, the impression that it's the thing to do is not accompanied by any of the important details regarding altitude gain, miles, time of departure, shoes, clothing, food, water, etc.

They don't know any better? Seriously, it seems like half of them attempt it because somebody somewhere gave them the impression it's the thing to do, like anybody can do it. Unfortunately, the impression that it's the thing to do is not accompanied by any of the important details regarding altitude gain, miles, time of departure, shoes, clothing, food, water, etc.

Scenes from Yosemite:

You are walking with a friend on a light drizzly day on a paved trail toward Mirror Lake, indulging in tourist watching - the Japanese tourists are blossoming out cheap red/yellow ponchos all along the way - when you are approached by a man wearing a brand spanking new pack. He has an open longneck in hand and five more in the side pockets of the pack. He is wearing shorts. "is this the trail to Half Dome?" he asks. It's 2 pm.

You look over the man's shoulder at Half Dome, currently wearing a cloud on top.

No. It is not the trail to Half Dome. You have another two - three miles to the trailhead followed by eight miles of uphill to get there - are you planning to do that tonight?

The woman with the man - carrying nothing but a fanny pack and half a liter bottle of water - stares at him, glances at the preteen girl standing next to her, also in shorts and carrying nothing at all, wearing some sort of flat soled shoe that looks like it cost $150 and has no useful purpose (at least SAR could find her following the trail of glitter they were shedding). "Do you know the way to Curry Village?"

It's right over there, ma'am. Just follow the trail back to the road and then go left.

Exit girl and woman, followed by man drinking beer, as the drizzle becomes rain.

Scene two:

You are trailing your group up the switchbacks toward Nevada Falls. You come across a young man draped over a rock. He is wearing a Camelbak pack, one of the runner's kind that have no space for anything but the hydration bladder. He is panting and turning un-pretty shades of pink and red.

Are you okay? (the standard opening to determine willingness to accept help)

"I'm out of water and I feel like crap." (pant pant)

Another of your group shows up in time to hear this and produces the extra bottle of water from her pack to offer. You pull out a trail bar and offer that, knowing he is dehydrating. He refuses the bar. "I've had diarrhea for three days."

No, sir, I don't think you are. You are suffering heat exhaustion, if not heat stroke, and probably dehydrated. You need to go to the medical center in the valley.

"We're hiking to Half Dome."

You're not hiking. You're suffering. Go back.

The group leader shows up. You tell him to take the friend back to the valley, that he's in danger and needs medical attention, and leave them to their reckless behavior as the group leader encourages the man to get up and hike, wimp.

You tell the SAR team member filtering water for people at the river about them, when you break for lunch.

Scene three:

You are on the subdome taking pictures of your friend on the cables. A teenager in flipflops and a bikini goes whap-whapping by, her skin a lovely shade of I'm-going-to-scream-later pink. She plops down on the granite, slides on her shades, and gives a dramatic sigh. She glares at the cables.

Scene four:

Man with day pack is hiking up Little Yosemite Valley as you are hiking down. Woman is trudging behind him wearing a sullen expression. As you pass the woman she asks how far to Half Dome. You tell her and she does a tremendous double take.

"You said it was only another mile! you said it was only four miles! Why did you do this to me? My feet are killing me! I want to go back!!!!"

You hike a little faster to put more distance between you and the screaming woman now waving her arms as she follows the man who is still trudging onward up the trail.

What kind of bragging rights do you really get when you subject yourself to this sort of experience and refuse to turn around?

Is there a T shirt for I Went To Half Dome And All I Got Was This Lousy T Shirt (And A Divorce)?

I really don't get it.

These are true, btw. I was there. And I'm sure they are the tip of the iceberg.

Those are good anecdotes, and I'm sure that there are many more. But there are countless additional idiot-stories about the Yosemite Falls Trail, the Four Mile Trail, and (back in the day) the Ledges Trail and the Sierra Point Trail. The only real difference with respect to the Half Dome Trail is that idiots on the Half Dome Trail are more likely to endanger others, as they used to do on the Ledges Trail.

I have no problem with the rangers trying to rein back the crowds on Half Dome. I just wish that they had come up with a more fair method of allocating the slots and, of dealing with no-shows, and with the inevitable horse-trading of the tickets.

Personally, I think that the Half Dome Trail is wonderful. One by one these distinctive and memorable old trails, like the Lady Mountain Trail in Zion, are disappearing. It will be sad when they are all gone. Why should our trails be reduced to those that can be done by tyros in flip-flops? If you don't remember Lady Mountain, It had neat chains to hang on to. see description

And if you hate the scene on the Half Dome Trail, well just don't go there. It's the Woodstock of Sierra traildom.

And if you hate the scene on the Half Dome Trail, well just don't go there. It's the Woodstock of Sierra traildom.

Woodstock? Hardly!

What I hate: TP blossoms everywhere. Everyone who thinks the restrooms every few miles are excessive should walk 10-15 feet off trail on either side for a while, after the half dome trail departs from the JMT.

Bear bag ropes left in the tops of trees, all along the ridge on the way to the subdome.

Litter. Everywhere. Pile of gloves at the bottom of the cables. pile of water bottles and broken cameras around the base of the dome. Wrappers and bags and endless bits of junk that will never go away.

I feel sorry for Half Domers who never do anything else. They're missing a lot.

What I hate: TP blossoms everywhere. Everyone who thinks the restrooms every few miles are excessive should walk 10-15 feet off trail on either side for a while, after the half dome trail departs from the JMT.

Bear bag ropes left in the tops of trees, all along the ridge on the way to the subdome.

Litter. Everywhere. Pile of gloves at the bottom of the cables. pile of water bottles and broken cameras around the base of the dome. Wrappers and bags and endless bits of junk that will never go away.

I feel sorry for Half Domers who never do anything else. They're missing a lot.

If you think that's a mess, you never saw the scene after Woodstock.

Yes, they are missing a lot. No, I'd rather see that mob doing their thing on the Half Dome Trail than have them scattered throughout the park. It's great that you can leave the trail, headed for Quarter Domes or whatever, and after a hundred yards see no one and no garbage. Keep them bunched up on the trail is my desire...

Yes, they are missing a lot. No, I'd rather see that mob doing their thing on the Half Dome Trail than have them scattered throughout the park. It's great that you can leave the trail, headed for Quarter Domes or whatever, and after a hundred yards see no one and no garbage. Keep them bunched up on the trail is my desire...

My thoughts exactly. I'm glad that when the Park Service recently released that YouTube video with alternative strenuous hikes that park vistors could take instead of Half Dome hike, that they failed to mention most of my favorite hikes.

Bragging to who? Most people don't know or care where Half Dome is. Even if you tell colleagues, "I hiked Half Dome!" you will know what that entails, they will have no clue and wont' appreciate it.

I think it's a vastly overrated hike, populated mainly by non-hikers who are ill-prepared and seem to be suffering every step of the way. The views I also think are overrated. Clouds Rest especially and even North Dome are superior, IMO.

I am on the Half Dome trail because I routinely do the hike from Happy Isles to Sunrise in the high country, 22 miles, then return the next day. That's a far greater hike and much more challenging than Half Dome. Much prettier too, and very few people are on the JMT at any given point on the trail.

QuoteUlysses61
Bragging to who? Most people don't know or care where Half Dome is. Even if you tell colleagues, "I hiked Half Dome!" you will know what that entails, they will have no clue and wont' appreciate it.

I think it's a vastly overrated hike, populated mainly by non-hikers who are ill-prepared and seem to be suffering every step of the way. The views I also think are overrated. Clouds Rest especially and even North Dome are superior, IMO.

I am on the Half Dome trail because I routinely do the hike from Happy Isles to Sunrise in the high country, 22 miles, then return the next day. That's a far greater hike and much more challenging than Half Dome. Much prettier too, and very few people are on the JMT at any given point on the trail.

It depends on who your colleagues are. Quite a few people I know have been to Yosemite or at least have heard of Half Dome.

I certainly agree that Half Dome's views aren't as good as those from Clouds Rest. However, HD is the iconic image of Yosemite, and a lot of people simply want to make it to the top regardless of ill preparation or the lack of stellar views.

Why do Half Dome--well, because it is there. What three things do people think of when Yosemite is mentioned--El Capitan, Yosemite Falls, and Half Dome. Moon and Half Dome likely Ansel Adams most famous of Yosemite. I can't do El Capitan. Perhaps it is an overrated hike (if so then only the last 3-4 miles before you hit the dome as the mist trail should be traveled by everyone). And yes, there are plenty of hikes that are not as well traveled or as known that are as good or better than Half Dome--but none hit you in the face like HD.

Yes, there are plenty of stories of people hiking to HD who should not be hiking there--same goes for those hiking to the bottom of the Grand Canyon, or those attempting to get that great picture of a grizzly in Yellowstone only to have to run back to their car without their camera. People do foolish things.

I've hiked HD once (and plan to do it again this June--and if the snow melts, I'll try my luck at Cloud Rest too). I hiked solo for the first 2/3 but finally hooked up with two younger hikers. While it was my goal to hit the top, when I saw the ropes I said no (no 45 degree angle from where I was standing). Thankfully, the two hikers pushed and encouraged me to make it to the top. It was exhilarating. Going down was a breeze. As I started early and moved at a good pace, few people on the ropes and made it back to the cabin before 3--plenty of time for an adult beverage or two before dinner.

3/4 of a day should not be any problem as the trip is pretty much all downhill. The trip down the Snow Creek part of the trail can pound your feet. Be sure to take a side trip out to Mt Wadkins. Great views from there. Of course you'll have to wait until 120 opens.

Haha, thanks Mike. I will definitely encourage them to go. I guess we could either take lots of breaks or stop half way if they are not up to it. At the moment, they are looking forward to it, but you know how things changes.

Haha, yeah, hopefully they will learn to let go of all their gadgets and learn to appreciate the outdoors. I looked online and supposedly the valley does have spotty reception. Once, I remember while on top of Yosemite Falls, some kids were yapping on their phones about some sports event that day.

Actually, cell phone reception on the eastern side of Yosemite Valley is pretty reliable even as far out as Mirror Lake. As is the reception on the cliffs overlooking the eastern side of Yosemite Valley.

It's on the westside of Yosemite Valley where cell phone reception is spotty and intermittent.

If you don't have reliable cell phone reception in the eastern end of Yosemite Valley, then the antenna on your cell phone is probably not so good.

Anybody know where the tower is that serves Tuolumne Meadows? When I was there last August my Verizon phone would not pick up anything. Maybe TM was down at that time for some reason. The phone worked fine 3 days later on the Lewis Creek trail when I got high enough to see Sentinal Dome.

I remember we were comparing reception once. Verizon and Sprint work fine because Sprint roams on Verizon. ATT appears fine too. Tmobile seem to be the worst but since it may be being bought over by ATT, they may allow roaming too. I can never get my data to work though... can never check for important emails, guess it is both a curse and a blessing.

Data does not work on Verizon Wireless in Yosemite, because it's not a Verizon native network. It's what Verizon calls an extended network. The network Verizon uses inside Yosemite is actually operated by Golden State Cellular. On the other hand, AT&T network inside Yosemite is its own, and AT&T supports its EDGE data network within the park, but not its 3G network. Still AT&T's 3G smart-phones and cell phones are backward compatible with AT&T's EDGE data network, so one can trasmitt data with these 3G phones inside Yosemite where there is AT&T cell phone reception.

I am amaze you know all that! That makes sense then. I guess if I need data, I need to borrow an ATT data card. I know, I should be leaving these tech stuff at home, but I do like to take extra time and work "remotely."

I work in the tech industry and in the past have been on-call quite often. So the more connected I could stay, the more freedom I had to roam around and hike. Hence, I'm very familiar where I can stay connected and where I could not. And it's also the reason I have three cell. phones: Verizon (CDMA), AT&T (GSM), and Boost Mobile (iDen).

Better to reply late than never, but we took our kids up last summer at ages 11.5, 13th birthday, and 14.5. None had a problem, but we hike quite a bit. Get them out on a few steep bay area hike in the next couple of months, and you should get a good idea of how it'll go (e.g., Mt Tam, Black Mountain in Cupertino, Mission Peak in Fremont). Oh, and cellphones worked surprisingly often, including Nevada Fall, and the shoulder of HD.

Thanks for the advice. I feel a lot more comfortable taking them now; I was more worried about whether how strenuous it would be for them during the hike, but since your kids had no problems, I think we will be fine. They are pretty active but good advice on taking them on hikes before the trip to prep them.

Yeah, plenty of "things to do" other than Half Dome. Often, hikers who did not cancel would give the ranger extra permits to give away at the bottom of the cables. So, if you want to gamble, you can hike to the entrance... but its probably a bad gamble.