As it stands right now, there is no real reason to use semtex or frags over C4.

The game is absolutly saturated with people using this equipment. It's gotten so bad that I almost need to run flack jacket on all my loadouts because of the C4 spam. Besides random, extreme range throws there is nothing other lethals offer that C4 can't do better.

I don't understand why it's so much more prevelant in this call of duty compared to others either....

And running flak jacket is only a bandaid fix really, since you'll survive that C4 pack coming over the wall or around the corner, only to be weakened and have a pretty good chance of losing the ensuing gunfight.

I know there must be a million threads talking about this, but I feel like it's reached a sort of critical mass online. It isn't uncommon to go up against teams in domination where EVERYONE on the opposing team is running emp/C4 combos. Between this spam and the quickscoping epidemic plagueing the game it becomes harder and harder to have fun, and not get shoehorned into very specfic builds to counter this, only leaving you shorthanded against what you would be using otherwise. (more gun attachments, mobility perks)

Anyway, I play the game, ALLOT. I've played all of the Call of duties since 2 launched on the 360 and I can't remember a title where C4 was this rampant. There must be something in this game that C4 has over the iterations of it from the past, but I can't remember. I remember getting killed by C4 in modernwarfare 2 and black ops, but never remotely close to the frequency of black ops II.

Anyway, I was just wondering what the rest of the community thought about C4. It honestly pisses me off more then quickscopers, dropshotters, lag and target finders combined.

C4 is the only reason I play Black Ops 2. C4 will take a non Flak jacket camper down. But only campers ( You ) want it change. Lets take the Target Finder out. Only Rushers/semi rushers want them out. ( ME )

I'm the farthest thing from a camper and I hate c4 probably more than the first person who posted. Grenades are supposed to be used against campers, that's the whole purpose, to fish them out with grenades. People who use c4 are lame, more so than target finders. But I guess it's not totally their fault because the game allows you to throw it, which is the whole reason this original post is on here. The distance c4 can be tossed needs to be reduced to a couple feet max. You do not throw c4 in reality, you set it up. So technically c4 is for the people who are campers who are waiting for someone to run through a door or around a corner. I can't tell you how many times I'm running around or in a firefight and someone tosses c4 over a wall and blows me away, and I literally have to don flak jacket on every one of my classes because if I don't then I'll die more than 5 times every match to c4. Even with flak jacket I'm getting blown away. In fact, if I chose to camp more often then I would get hit by c4 much less. I do not run around mindlessly either, I'm a very tactical player. But I end up having to quit a ridiculous amount of games because I'm tired of getting blown away from some stupid cheapskate who's rocking c4 and doesn't start shooting till they've tossed all of it lol. I mean what is this? This is supposed to be a Shooting game, where guns come first, and explosives are a secondary option. Basically, and obviously I'm not just talking to YOU, the game made c4 too good, and obviously COD is not perfect. There should be no target finders, dynamic advanced throwable c4, or quickscoping allowed, and the people who use them in my opinion are not smart like they think they are by taking advantage of it but lame because they use the things that are so incredibly cheap. Have some dignity people. People want to enjoy this game and most of the better players hate those aspects of it, which granted are allowed, but they shouldn't be. Stupid COD developers..

I run flak jacket & lightweight toughness & extreme cond. I rarely get c4 because im always on the move..most of if not all my c4 kills are on campers in buildings or corner camping because they don't see the C4 coming

C4 is fine. If they feel a nerf is neccessary it will probably be to to distance you can throw it. You can throw it much farther in this game than other titles. Other than that C4 has been the same for ages, no need for this 'no quick detonation' nonsense.

C4 has been the same for a few games now. Why all of a sudden does it need to be changed? There is nothing wrong with c4 even throwing and detonating it doesn't always work well unless you are using fast hands, I have died many times throwing it and getting killed before i can detonate where I want it to go. I'm an avid user of c4 and flak jacket as well and have used it exclusively since I started playing cod years ago. I've died more to random 'Joe Montana' grenades that are magnetized to me by rolling around by my feet just out of toss back range or grenades thst explode above head from being cooked with flak jacket on than I have died from c4 alone. I get hit markers all the time using c4 against flak jacket users. Like I've said in many other c4 threads, semtex, frags, betties, and c4 all have the same blast radius of 256 inches, c4 is not bigger. Frags have max damage of 200, betties have max damage of 200, semtex has max damage of 150.....guess what? C4 max damage is 205, and min damage is 70.... The others min damage is around 50. So i guess that extra 5 max damage and 20 min damage with same explosion radius is really wrecking people.... I rarely see c4 planted anymore and it can't be thrown as far as a cooked frag or semtex. Whats next? People ******** that you can throw a Betty into an area where people are and it immediately be set off with no delay even against engineer users? C4 has always been about controlled on demand explosions. And the whole complaining about scan replenishing lethal and explosives..... It doesn't replenish explosives if thst person is killed by an explosive but let's face it.... I can kill a tactical loiterer with c4 and kill his buddy with my gun and replenish my c4. Any tactical, and explosive can be refilled thst way. Just like ppl abuse the hell out of rpgs, smaws, and undermount grenade launchers with scavenger by picking up ammo bags from enemies killed by guns. Let's not get into the ridiculous tactical nades and equipment being replenished and spammed like crazy..... Eh hem empnade, blackhats , trophy systems.....

I haven't used noob tubes in months but what I remember was they didn't replenish with scavenger. I may be wrong though. I haven't noticed c4 being used 2 much though I have a class on the ready though. Same with flashes and concussions. I have a tactical mask class set up just 4 when people are spamming those. Most of my classes are the holy trinity though same as half the people that play. Personally though I don't use c4 except when I prestige the first match before I can create a class I use the class with the scorpion which happens to use the ultimate try hard setup of c4 and scavenger.

I rarely see it being used in HC, but I've used it a few times, and I noticed that the range at which it can be thrown is pretty incredible. I've thrown it through second story windows from the ground level. It just seems like it can be thrown just as far as other explosives, like nades!

As expected those that came here to defend against it being changed are those that use it and thus would think the game was ruined or made worse for the change. When really it would add a level of thinking to using them more than just the run-toss-detonate thinking that goes on now.

Pretty much semtex is useless, c4 does it job better. Frag is useless c4 does its job better. With the current way c4 works, there is no reason to have either one of those even in the game anymore.

You missed the point. Flak jacket counters c-4 very well. Trophy system works great to if your sitting on an objective. C-4 has the advantage over nades and semtex up close but not far away cause you cant throw c-4 across the map like the other two. This thread is just as bad spy plane threads. Counters are put into the game for a reason. Its your fault for choosing not to use them. The developers dont need to cater to your setup/playstyle because of your ignorance.

Why not have a golden gun and have a perk called juggernaut that cancels out it's one hit kill ability?

And then a Holy Hand Grenade with a perk called God-Armor that cancels out it's one hit kill ability?

And then a 500 point killstreak called Reaper the Grim that kills all players that don't have the Ward from Evil perk?

And then...

...

Forced counters are not counters -- they're forced.

Forcing players to use a perk to survive is a bad idea.

When ALL the flags in domination are exposed and impossible to defend from within the flag's perimeters -- and all the bombsites are exposed -- you MUST HAVE Flak Jacket to survive.

Once again -- this is mainly a map problem and not a problem with the equipment, in this case C4.

If maps were better designed, so that you could not EASILY throw C4 onto a flag from afar and out of sight on every flag and every bombsite -- Flak Jacket would not be forced onto you, as you'd be able to defend yourself.

But all the maps ARE badly designed, and they cannot change the map layouts.

So... they should change the C4 instead.

By all means, let it's RANGE be massive -- but limit it's damage OR delay the trigger to prevent it from being a super-grenade.

Forced counters? Get out of here. That is the worst argument I've heard on here yet. A real issue is something like One Man Amy noob tubes from MW2. We didnt have a perk or setup to counter that issue back then. Smart players have class setup for just about anything they encounter in the game. We need to be accountable for our choices and stop asking the developers to make everything cookie cuttter because it doesnt fit into our preferred pick 10 class setup

We dont always agree but on this I have to agree with your anology and reasoning.

A forced counter is not a counter, nothing should be forced upon a player to survive in a match. Those who think otherwise about it are jus those what want to continue to abuse the game mechanic and do not want it changed. For they feel they would be to limited.

Increaseing the time from toss to detonation would be a viable change, It would make it where it cannot be spammed so easily. Forcing the C4 user to have to think ahead and not just rando toss-detonatae as is done now.

C4 is a pain in the butt. I only get hit with it mid air or if I'm camping. Sometimes when I get killed by C4 it's pretty funny! I can't use it to save my life but I don't care if someone else spams it all over the place. It's cool you just gotta deal with it. I rather have powered C4 than OP RPGS like on BO1. Don't forget emp nades also kill C4.

Well, the c4 is already powerful enough and people can use it on demand, which I think is a bit unfair (especially when fast hands is involved). I think they should just go back to the way it was on BO1 where you had to pull it out before you could throw it. That way its use would be a bit more balanced than the way it is now.

It doesn't bother me and I'm glad that they gave it some throwing range. C4 in MW3 was pretty much useless because you could barely throw it to double the range of knifing. Having to get that close to use it made not using it at all the better option.

As others have stated Flak pretty much stops C4. Whether you choose to wear it or not is up to you. I have classes both with Flak and without it and I play DOM a lot. Lethals of all kinds are regularly spammed in that gamemode. It's not an issue for me.

WHAT! I use frags and semtex quiet successfully and I have no issue watching that large red (if you use engineer) satchel being thrown at me, I just out maneuver it. You really should move your character more often! Or equip yourself with flak

IMO it needs to have a reduced range, increased throw time, and/or limit at the beginning of a match (similar to what frags and semtexs have). It should function more as a trap than an offensive weapon.

And to people saying to put on Flak Jacket, the point of this thread isn't that C4 is too strong (although it could be argued), its that it is superior to frags and semtexs and makes both of them pointless.

Actually you are quite wrong. Frags are beneficial for bouncing around a corner, and if they are hiding behind a desk that grenade will follow them like a magnet. With C4 if they are hiding behind a desk it won't kill them. It may do quite a bit of damage, but won't kill them.

Semtex is equally as usable as C4 is. I rarely get hitmarkers when using semtex.

Lets not forget about the ever popular shock charge bouncing betty. That is almost a guaranteed kill.

I'm glad you brought up the issue. The only thing I'd change, like some others have said here, is the throwing distance.

It's definitely one of the more annoying ways to die. Especially when you've already taken the first three shots. But, it is what it is and you can usually defend against the C4 spammer pretty quickly. The skilled C4 user, however, is a bit more difficult to defend.

What I like to do to improve my accuracy and give me a chance to defend myself if I encounter a bouncing betty user or a C4 user. I like to go to a custom game and toss a bouncing betty in the air and try to shoot it before it hits the ground and the same with C4.

Just like many other "issues" , it is to an extent avoidable. Good thing there is a pick ten system to stack perks or whatever else helps in certain situations. I do think scavenger refilling it is a stretch...but it does so don't let them get close. You should be able to find out and act accordingly if you are getting slammed by any equipment.

I actually prefer semtex to C4 sometimes because I can throw in much further, faster and with more accuracy than C4. Lately, I use tomahawks because they are more fun and less noobish than spamming explosives.

I usually only need to use flak jacket if I am trying to capture objectives, otherwise it's kind of a useless perk.

C4 is powerful ITS A FUKKING BRICK OF C4!! LOL LOL! i LOVE the way a C4 kill feels. especially on campers. i have films of multikill C4s that is hilarious. C4 has its flaws. the number one flaw is time to detonate. i use C4 a lot and i often get killed trying to detonate and unlike a semtext or frag, C4 DOES NOT explode when you get killed, so no afterlife kills. C4 also gets destroyed by trophy and emps so you have those options as well.

here's the thing folks, C4 is like anything else, you figure out a way to overcome it. the thing i like about BO2 is that for every advantage there is a way for an opponent to overcome your advantage. if you cant do it, then thats your fault, not the game's.

honestly ya i find it annoying its gonn happen just like everything else in the game but theres a solution to everything. flak is a must in domination anyhow. throw some smoke and lay in the smoke as u cap. it will prevent u from getting hit with the spray into the smoke and trophys + fak will keep u from getting blown to hell. as for tdm its common but not always effective. i rush nonstop if i know someones behind a wall ill rush around if there not shooting so if there not shooting there eather reloading or chucking a explosive (which ive run into sticks alot XD only to blow up the thrower) i run frags cuz i love cooking them and bouncing them off walls claymores are fun to run scavenger and just lay a minefield around every corner as i run but all in all i never use c4.

C4 essentially replaces the frag and semtex, and is offered a very large blast radius. IMO, it's too powerful. The proper way to balance C4 is if it can only be detonated once it lands somewhere, and the throwing distance is reduced.