Open Letter to Amnesty International on the Iraqi Constitution

Originally posted by Jakomo
FYI: The world despises your country because of your current administration. You wouldn't notice this if you didn't travel. Go to, let's say,
Spain, and wear a US flag on your shirt and watch how fast you get spat on and insulted. Pick any major European country and the same thing will
happen to you. An ALLIED country.

That's certainly different than 5 short years ago.

i thought the world despise our nation long before this Bush administration?

must be the flag alright.

stop trying to twist what he said. he didnt say the flag had anything to do with it, he was merely using it as an example.

whilst i think the spitting and such may be a bit exaggerated, there is no denying the simple fact that yes the US's image problem is the
Administration and the sheep that blindly follow the regime's plots.

the same swings the other way with Islam's current image issue being caused by extremists.

Originally posted by Daystar
stop trying to twist what he said. he didnt say the flag had anything to do with it, he was merely using it as an example.

whilst i think the spitting and such may be a bit exaggerated, there is no denying the simple fact that yes the US's image problem is the
Administration and the sheep that blindly follow the regime's plots.

the same swings the other way with Islam's current image issue being caused by extremists.

they are both as bad as each other.

its not the flag, its sarcasm. he says that America is hated by the world because of the Bush admin. u dink that America was never hated before the
Bush admin. there was the spit and taunting against American troops while crossing Greece for example to Kosovo during the Clinton Admin. not to
mention France talkin about America as hyperpower that needs to be tame instead of treating it as a good frend. so dont say that America is hated
because of the Bush admin alone.

Originally posted by rstrik
And Souljah you don't know crap about our liberties being taking away you speak as if you are an American, you are not you are on the outside looking
in. Until you have experience don't talk like you know anything. Because I live here and I know you just "think you know". All you know is what
you read and hear you have no experience walking down the streets. I've said it a 100 times my life has not changed one single bit since 9/11 I do
the EXACT same things I use to do. I don't look or speak or act like a terrorist so I have nothing to worry about. The endless whining from liberals
and outsider critics like Souljah is tiring. Where was all this criticism when Bill Clinton was bombing Saddam daily, where was this endless criticism
when we were guarding a suppossed sovreign nations skies for 10 years. Your hate for Bush drives you, don't let hate control your emotions, it's a
sign of weakness.

Well I am Happy for you! I am glad that there are people who are unaffected by the Problematics that the US is facing today at their Domestic
Politics.

I am sure you are Happy about how Bush administration acknowledged that it is short $1 billion for covering current needs at the Department
of Veterans Affairs this year. They sure take care of Veterans I see.

What about Bush Restricting Science? The American Civil Liberties Union charged the Bush administration with placing science under siege by
overzealously tightening restrictions on information, individuals, and technology in the name of homeland security.

And what about the Department of Labor's proposals for revising parts of the 1993 Family and Medical Leave Act (FMLA) may cause hard-won family
leave protections to be lost. Any change to the FMLA is important, because millions have had illnesses or other life events that fall under FMLA's
umbrella. In an 18-month period in 1999 and 2000, nearly 24 million workers took leave for an FMLA-covered reason, according to the Labor
Department's most recent figures.

Bush Says No to Protecting Ocean Mammals? Claiming that the use of sonar is required for homeland security, the Bush administration has come out
against international efforts to restrict the use of sonar anywhere in the world, especially by the U.S. Navy, even though the sonar poses a threat to
ocean wildlife.

Medicaid Funding Cuts? At a recent meeting with the National Governors Association, Bush emphasized his plan to cut tens of billions of federal
dollars to Medicaid, the program that provides health care for 53 million poor and disabled people in the US.

Furthermore, in the 2005 State of the Union address, Bush outlined a plan to privatize Social Security that has countless pitfalls, all of which
would hurt women, people of color, people with disabilities and their dependents. Bush's plan to create private accounts would cut benefits for
recipients now and in the future, create more national debt, create a retirement void for those who do not make enough money to save larger portions
of their paychecks, and would put savings at risk in the stock market.

Bush Sides with the Drug Companies? In November 2004 the media focused on the pharmaceutical drug Vioxx and its dangerous side effects. Mounting
evidence suggests that Merck, Vioxx's distributor, concealed proof that the painkiller can increase a consumer's chance of suffering a heart attack
or stroke. Merck may have been aware of these potential dangers for at least the past five years. Meanwhile, George W. Bush continues to strongly
advocate tort reform, which would cap the amount of money victims of medical error could win in a lawsuit.

Great Country ey?

Great Administration ey?

Great President?

Do you have FEELING that your dearest so-called President cares for your Economy, Enviroment, Social Security, Diversity & Human Rights, Health,
Education or Science?

I certainly do not get this feeling.

Well, as Long as you are HAPPY with Patriot Acts I and II.

As Long as you are HAPPY with what your "president" is doing to YOUR country and to the REST of the WORLD we ALL live in. That why I give a Damn.
Because he is Destroying our Planet. And we just have ONE.

Originally posted by Souljah
On the other side current US-goverment is using just about anything in their ARS-enal

Sadly your country has been taken over by a ruthless DICKtator

What about your current President? An Alcoholic and a Coccaine addict?

Son-of-a-Bush

You stopped me in my tracks with these statements. An intelligent debate doesn't involve name calling and slander like this. Your statements all
fly right out the window as the ravings of an immature child when you included these grade school style taunts.

Not to mention, I think your usage of the word "DICK" in this context is a violation of the language rules of this board.

In the end whether any one of us like it or not everything Souljah posted in his first post is fact. It is also a fact that the majority of the world
did NOT support us going to Iraq because they did not beleive our reasons for going. Arguing of either of those points is useless because they are
written fact and history.

It is also a fact that we bombed Iraqi cities killing thousands of innocent civilians. There is no debating that as both sides openly acknowledge
it.

It is also a fact that in every major and a few minor prisons we are using in this war there have been allegations of torture. Within at least three
of them there have been trials of torture. Do you honestly beleive our troops the world over are this evil and cruel? I don't I honestly beleive
their leaders are through.

It is also a fact that in end we the United States was the major player behind Saddam both coming to power and in building or acquiring armies and
weapons including WMDs.

It is also a fact that in the end we the United States created Osama Bin Laden and Al'qaeda. We encouraged their growth, we gave them weapons and
funding.

The world over our country has created scores of murderess bands of dogs hoping that they might kill or bring down our current (or then current)
enemies. Time after time the result has been the blood of innocents. The blood of Americans. The reputation of our country. Most disturbingly our
childrens future.

Our country over the years has done so many great things. We have helped millions. At the same time though we have killed hundreds of thousands and
created dozens of wars and conflicts which rage to this day. Several of those conflicts are finally hitting home and we have created our own
nightmare.

It is time for the current goverment to end. I do not mean Bush's administration but rather the corrupt, capitalist pig that our once noble republic
has become.

It is time by whatever means necessary for the normal every day citizen to take back this country from the ultra rich who beleive they can buy our
loyalities.

I won't go through every one of your points; just a few to show where we disagree:

Originally posted by Xerrog

In the end whether any one of us like it or not everything Souljah posted in his first post is fact. It is also a fact that the majority of the world
did NOT support us going to Iraq because they did not beleive our reasons for going. Arguing of either of those points is useless because they are
written fact and history.

France, Germany, and Russia did not support us going to Iraq. That part you have stated correctly. Where you err is in the reasons for their
reluctance: they were siphoning untold billions from the Iraqi people in the form of sweet oil deals with Saddam.

It is also a fact that we bombed Iraqi cities killing thousands of innocent civilians. There is no debating that as both sides openly
acknowledge it.

We did not intentionally target civilians. We went after the machinery of war. Unfortunately every war ever waged has had civilian casualties. The
difference here is that we did not intentionally target them.

It is also a fact that in every major and a few minor prisons we are using in this war there have been allegations of torture. Within at least
three of them there have been trials of torture. Do you honestly beleive our troops the world over are this evil and cruel? I don't I honestly
beleive their leaders are through.

There are allegations of torture in nearly every civilian prison, also, in the US and other parts of the world. Did you happen to see any of Saddam's
torture toys that he used against his own people? There was a very graphic show depicting just that on A&E yesterday.

The difference is, we as a nation did not condone it, and have brought those responsible to trial. Some are currently serving time.

We have, and continue to do, enormous good in this world. When catastrophe strikes a nation whose leaders hate us, we offer assistance. They, on the
other hand, praise Allah for smiting the infidel when we suffer a flood or fire.

We are a relatively young nation, striving to grow while fighting off our enemies form all sides. And you have the unmitigated gall to say we brought
it on ourselves. Well, just imagine where the world would be if we didn't have to deal with senseless islamo-fanatics whose idea of a plan is to kill
innocents and spread terror?

Originally posted by rhelt100
You stopped me in my tracks with these statements. An intelligent debate doesn't involve name calling and slander like this. Your statements all
fly right out the window as the ravings of an immature child when you included these grade school style taunts.

Not to mention, I think your usage of the word "DICK" in this context is a violation of the language rules of this board.

You are Right here. I should not have Lowered myself into the Pits of petty Insults and name calling in an intelligent debate. In my defence, I used
them to label this guy they call El-Presidente and I did not use it to insult any members of this debate forum, like some of them did use them on me.
I shall try not to use these words of name calling in the Future. Thank you for your remark and for your observation. Cheers!

Originally posted by jsobecky
Why not provide links to your last reply? I'm sure you didn't pull them out of you head; your signature random capitalization of words isn't
there

Originally posted by rhelt100
In the end whether any one of us like it or not everything Souljah posted in his first post is fact. It is also a fact that the majority of the world
did NOT support us going to Iraq because they did not beleive our reasons for going. Arguing of either of those points is useless because they are
written fact and history.

Thank You for realising the true Nature of my original Post. Quickly people that do not want to hear the Facts turn this post into a crusade against
the Author and how "anti-american" I am, and how all I want to see is America to perish from this World. A post like yours is very Rare, that's why
You deserve my Complete RESPECT!

Originally posted by rstrik
They consistently report innacutate figures yearly dealing with terrorist
attacks, execution numbers world wide, they call terrorists freedom
fighters, and they also called the attacks of 9/11 "so called terrorist
attacks."

You have voted rstrik for the Way Above Top Secret award.
You have one more vote left for this month.

Amnesty International USED TO BE a good organization. I donated
$$$ in the past. However, now they are nothing more than a sick
joke of what they once were. Sad really. They used to do so much good
for the world. What a waste.

Originally posted by Souljah
Well at least they are using Power of Argument not the Argument of Power in order to get their Goals. On the other side current US-goverment is using
just about anything in their ARS-enal, except Nuclear weapons, to get what they want.

Incorrect, The BT are using the power of Propaganda and misinformation just like you are and to satisfy some deluded agenda.

Actually PNAC is one of the Strongest think-tanks in the US, which means it is the strongest in the entire World. There are no "dime-a-dozen" of
those - except if you count all the Pro-Isreali-Zionist-American-Jewish-Friendship associations, which are there to use every means they can to send
more help to Isreal in their fight against the Arab World.

And you are ?? DC Correspondent of ........Anything?? No!

The PNAC is one of the hundreds of think-tanks that are spread across DC which keep spewing out doomsday predictions and military agendas which carry
little weight in DC.
As for your anti-semite slur, it is expected.

The last resort of the weak, Insults! :shk:

Sure. Keep living in a land of Dreams. Sadly your country has been taken over by a ruthless DICKtator and he is turning it into a Police State. Try
Patriot Act and comare it to Enabling Act. Sad day for Democracy.

It may fantastical to YOU as you live in a crazed world where "Facist Armies" are headed towards you, want to enslave you and similar nonsense but
moving past your delusions and into the real world, as shocking as it may seem to YOU, democracy actually exsists! We in America can actually vote
people out of power when we dont like their policies.
The Patriot Act is another peice of legislation that has been a source of constant misinformation and paranoia.

If you actualy lived anywhere
in the US you would realise that the Patriot act hasnt affected our way of life in the least, unless of course you are some jehadi nut !
Obviously you dont live in the US and obviously you have no idea of what you speak. Endless links to inane sources of delusion only reaffirm the fact
that a little practical knowledge is better than reading tomes of propaganda.

So thats BAD? What about your current President? An Alcoholic and a Coccaine addict? I bet he is a REAL role......yada, yada,yada.

Again wild accusations without any proof!

And what is a "Reliable Source" for You?

A Tribunal by the BT( called a farce otherwise) is where both the defense and the prosecution both are trying to prove the same thing, i.e America is
this Facist monster that seeks to destroy the world.
A true tribunal is where both parties are opposite in perspective and is judged by a fair and well balanced representative jury. In the BT's Tribunal
it was similar to the entire court having one opinion and merely carring out a well orchestrated farse to fool the press and gain some modicum of
credibility.
Such a Sham!!

Yea, I bet Liberals are just waiting in line to "Degenerate" America and to "Corrupt" it and "Destroy" the Morals.

Right now I see YOU heading the Line!

I think its too late for that - Son-of-a-Bush has done that ALREADY!

Insults Again! Obviously, a rational well balanced response is expecting too much from you.

Originally posted by Souljah
I am sure you are Happy about how Bush administration acknowledged that it is short $1 billion for covering current needs at the Department of
Veterans Affairs this year. They sure take care of Veterans I see.

Ah! So now the focus has shifted from the BT tribunal to Bush bashing and conservative carping! Isnt that just soo predictable? Dodge the issue and
pull up Vetrans issues!!

What about Bush Restricting Science? The American Civil Liberties Union charged the Bush administration with placing science under siege by
overzealously tightening restrictions on information, individuals, and technology in the name of homeland security.

Has the ACLU won the case against the Administration ??
NO .

To sum it all up :

revising parts of the 1993 Family and Medical Leave Act (FMLA)

Bush administration has come out against international efforts to restrict the use of sonar anywhere in the world, especially by the U.S. Navy,
even though the sonar poses a threat to ocean wildlife.

Medicaid Funding Cuts?

privatize Social Security that has countless pitfalls,

George W. Bush continues to strongly advocate tort reform, which would cap the amount of money victims of medical error could win in a lawsuit.

OMG! Is this all you can find ??

I thought you were more convincing in your Anti-American propaganda! Maybe your out of practise

.
Moreover the whole sonar thing with fish is minimal. That point is absurd!
Sonar hurting Fish! National Emergency!

As Long as you are HAPPY with what your "president" is doing to YOUR country and to the REST of the WORLD we ALL live in. That why I give a Damn.
Because he is Destroying our Planet. And we just have ONE.

Wow! Did you pick that line from a Earth GEo add?

The USA has one of the most comprehensive and focused environmental protection plans in the world. Also the amount of care taken to preserve our
environment in America is much more than that taken by many other nations including yours. Why dont you lauch a campaign as agressive as this one
against America to improve environmental protection in your country?
Obviously you wont, this is because you act from hatred and not reason, your sole aim is to criticize the US and Bush, which is sad when you could
learn so much more from ATS than merely spewing your hate!

I am sure you are Happy about how Bush administration acknowledged that it is short $1 billion for covering current needs at the Department
of Veterans Affairs this year. They sure take care of Veterans I see.

Better than 90% of the rest of the world takes care of it's veterans.

What about Bush Restricting Science? The American Civil Liberties Union charged the Bush administration with placing science under siege by
overzealously tightening restrictions on information, individuals, and technology in the name of homeland security.

ACLU is where I stop reading sorry. Organization has proved time and time again it's agenda based and doesn't hold the majority of americans values
very close.

And what about the Department of Labor's proposals for revising parts of the 1993 Family and Medical Leave Act (FMLA) may cause hard-won
family leave protections to be lost.

Ok now you are pointing out PROPOSALS. Man you are really digging hard. If I brought up proposals for any organization in the world it would have
some rediculous ones I'm sure.

Bush Says No to Protecting Ocean Mammals? Claiming that the use of sonar is required for homeland security, the Bush administration has come
out against international efforts to restrict the use of sonar anywhere in the world, especially by the U.S. Navy, even though the sonar poses a
threat to ocean wildlife.

WOW just WOW

Medicaid Funding Cuts? At a recent meeting with the National Governors Association, Bush emphasized his plan to cut tens of billions of
federal dollars to Medicaid, the program that provides health care for 53 million poor and disabled people in the US.

Again PLAN you are speculating, this hasn't been passed and i'm sure there is a "flip side" to the coin. Of course I doubt you read that far.

urthermore, in the 2005 State of the Union address, Bush outlined a plan to privatize Social Security that has countless pitfalls, all of
which would hurt women, people of color, people with disabilities and their dependents. Bush's plan to create private accounts would cut benefits for
recipients now and in the future, create more national debt, create a retirement void for those who do not make enough money to save larger portions
of their paychecks, and would put savings at risk in the stock market.

If you were an American you would know this is dead in the water. But since you aren't I understand. Google only goes so far.

Bush Sides with the Drug Companies? In November 2004 the media focused on the pharmaceutical drug Vioxx and its dangerous side effects.
Mounting evidence suggests that Merck, Vioxx's distributor, concealed proof that the painkiller can increase a consumer's chance of suffering a
heart attack or stroke. Merck may have been aware of these potential dangers for at least the past five years. Meanwhile, George W. Bush continues to
strongly advocate tort reform, which would cap the amount of money victims of medical error could win in a lawsuit.

Tort reform is needed, Souljah most countries such as Germany already have caps on the amount of money personal suites can bring against Doctors and
medical companies do a little better research before you mouth off.

Great Country ey? You're damn right it is.

Great Administration ey? We've had better, unlike Iraq had, we have a choice to elect another administration to replace them.

Great President? I never said that, he has horrible qualities, but also has some very strong ones.

Do you have FEELING that your dearest so-called President cares for your Economy, Enviroment, Social Security, Diversity & Human Rights,
Health, Education or Science?

As a matter of fact I do, minority home ownership is at it's highest level ever and minority salaries are up about 10% from 2000. Social Security
has not been changed so a point you have?, Healthcare is bigger than any one president it's an ongoing issue that is gonna have to be solved through
the people and congress. Education and science, absolutely.

I certainly do not get this feeling.

Yes you don't live here and like most americans I don't give a crap what you think.

As Long as you are HAPPY with what your "president" is doing to YOUR country and to the REST of the WORLD we ALL live in. That why I give a
Damn. Because he is Destroying our Planet. And we just have ONE.

One man destroying the planet in 8 years man you really are funny. Well I tell you what Souljah, what country do you live in, I wanna do some
checking to make sure your country is living up to all the standards you apply to the USA. I welcome the research opportunity!! I somehow doubt you
will even tell us because I'm sure we can find a mountain of problems right at your doorstep where you should be focusing your brain instead of
spending 8 hours a day digging up ways to slam America. Remember like I told you before Souljah you would be crapping outside, reading books with
candle lights, calling your friends with a pigeon, riding a ship over seas, talking to us right now through letters, listening to your music on a
record player instead of the radio, watching events in person instead of TV, etc etc etc. So before you slam this country you show me what YOUR
blessed country has contributed to the world.

Umm yeah ok, you might want to recheck britain.
Since thats a major european country last time I checked and last time I checked we dont spit on our visitors.

But hey we can generalise all day cant we?

No, you will get spit on in many parts of Britain too. They are none too happy that they are in Iraq, and they blame the poodle Blair for it.

People just don't like Americans at all these days around the world.

I've met many British people and they are very open about their feelings and critical at times, but I've never met one that spat on me. The British
wear their emotions on their sleeve but usually don't resort to immature things like spitting on somebody. I also recently had a Scottsman staying
at my house for 2 weeks he was the same way. He was openly critical but also could see both sides of any issue. From what I've noticed people like
the american people and way of life but can see the difference between that and political pitfalls they disagree with. It's called being Mature.
And if the rest of the world is so mature and enlightened, why would they spit on anybody? We would never do that to a person in our country that
i've ever seen.

Oh and there's an old saying " If you don't like me I probably didn't like you first". Well that goes without saying, our Canadian neighbors are
falling into that category slowly but surely. For a country that has done so little to contribute or help the rest of the world you sure are critical
of countries that do.

they were siphoning untold billions from the Iraqi people in the form of sweet oil deals with Saddam.

Pfft. Any links to show all the countries in the Security Council that were against the war were getting kickbacks? I was in Montreal at an
anti-war rally with about 150,000 people there, I didn't see anybody receiving handouts from Saddam.

Is it so difficult to believe that the rest of the world could see through the lame lies that your Administration was telling about the necessity for
war?

Why is that, you may ask? People around the world don't get their news only from CNN or Fox. So they knew what was actually happening.

they were siphoning untold billions from the Iraqi people in the form of sweet oil deals with Saddam.

Pfft. Any links to show all the countries in the Security Council that were against the war were getting kickbacks? I was in Montreal at an
anti-war rally with about 150,000 people there, I didn't see anybody receiving handouts from Saddam.

Well then, damn, man, I must have been mistaken! Saddam promised those 150,000 protestors that he'd be there with free T-shirts and Mallo Cups!

I can't believe that you are asking for links, or questioning this, at this late date. Those kickbacks are ancient history. I'm not gonna do all
your homework, but here is one example:

France’s largest oil company, Total (formerly TotalFinaElf) had negotiated lucrative oil contracts with the Hussein regime after Gulf War 1
to drill in Southern Iraq." (The Real Coalition of the Bribed and Coerced, GeoPoliticalReview, October 8, 2004). "These negotiations took place in
anticipation of an eventual weakening or lifting of the economic sanctions imposed on Iraq, thereby allowing them to immediately execute said
contracts worth approximately $650-billion. Without Saddam in power, those oil contracts would naturally be void, so France had incentive to keep
him in power to maintain their competitive advantage. On a related note, the destruction of the homeland of the "Marsh Arabs" in Southern Iraq
(much publicized after the fall of Baghdad) was reportedly done by Saddam at the bequest of Total representatives after coming under repeated attacks
during their oil speculating endeavors in the region." www.acepilots.com...

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