Well aside from other football games that I watch, I watch the Raiders every week of the season. Some teams do it, most don't. Some teams play dirty, some don't. Your team does from what I saw, and what I saw was pretty clear.

I don't see the reason you have to defend it, you don't play for the team and it's not an attack on you. You don't coach them to do it. I would never have argued the Raiders weren't dirty 30 years ago, because they were. Not every team tackles around the head consistently, and not every team gravitates toward the head and knees on defense as the game slips away. I'm not talking about an isolated play here or there. THAT'S every team. I'm talking about more than usual, which is why it stood out in the first place while I was watching the game.

While I'm not going to try to convince you that you are wrong despite what you see, bear in mind that what is shown on TV is not all there is to the story. And that most often "the eye test" is flawed due to small sample sizes._________________

GaTechRavens wrote:

Let's not be blinded by a flashy stat without taking a deep look at the context behind it.

Well aside from other football games that I watch, I watch the Raiders every week of the season. Some teams do it, most don't. Some teams play dirty, some don't. Your team does from what I saw, and what I saw was pretty clear.

I don't see the reason you have to defend it, you don't play for the team and it's not an attack on you. You don't coach them to do it. I would never have argued the Raiders weren't dirty 30 years ago, because they were. Not every team tackles around the head consistently, and not every team gravitates toward the head and knees on defense as the game slips away. I'm not talking about an isolated play here or there. THAT'S every team. I'm talking about more than usual, which is why it stood out in the first place while I was watching the game.

While I'm not going to try to convince you that you are wrong despite what you see, bear in mind that what is shown on TV is not all there is to the story. And that most often "the eye test" is flawed due to small sample sizes.

Damn, you steelers fans are in full denial huh? how many more excuses do you got?

No wonder Ryan Mundy doesn't know how to tackle, nobody on the steelers defense does. (Just look at Ryan Clark, James Harrison, Ike Taylor, Lawrence Timmons in these vids!).

Nothing to see here guys! the steelers aren't dirty or trying to hurt people, Thats just the Saints. The Steelers are just a team that doesn't know how to tackle properly! you can't be mad at incompetence! it aint their fault!

Well aside from other football games that I watch, I watch the Raiders every week of the season. Some teams do it, most don't. Some teams play dirty, some don't. Your team does from what I saw, and what I saw was pretty clear.

I don't see the reason you have to defend it, you don't play for the team and it's not an attack on you. You don't coach them to do it. I would never have argued the Raiders weren't dirty 30 years ago, because they were. Not every team tackles around the head consistently, and not every team gravitates toward the head and knees on defense as the game slips away. I'm not talking about an isolated play here or there. THAT'S every team. I'm talking about more than usual, which is why it stood out in the first place while I was watching the game.

While I'm not going to try to convince you that you are wrong despite what you see, bear in mind that what is shown on TV is not all there is to the story. And that most often "the eye test" is flawed due to small sample sizes.

Damn, you steelers fans are in full denial huh? how many more excuses do you got?

No wonder Ryan Mundy doesn't know how to tackle, nobody on the steelers defense does. (Just look at Ryan Clark, James Harrison, Ike Taylor, Lawrence Timmons in these vids!).

Nothing to see here guys! the steelers aren't dirty or trying to hurt people, Thats just the Saints. The Steelers are just a team that doesn't know how to tackle properly! you can't be mad at incompetence! it aint their fault!

Ohhh lookee youtube clips, the evidence of amateurs.

What's next? Still pics?_________________

GaTechRavens wrote:

Let's not be blinded by a flashy stat without taking a deep look at the context behind it.

It honestly seems many here have no clue how to tackle. From day 1, you are told to square up and hit your opponent squarely with your head to the side with the ball. If that opposing player lowers his head, which is a way of protecting himself, there is helmet to helmet._________________

"Sheep follow the flock for direction and security but scatter at the sight of the lone wolf". Rocky

It honestly seems many here have no clue how to tackle. From day 1, you are told to square up and hit your opponent squarely with your head to the side with the ball. If that opposing player lowers his head, which is a way of protecting himself, there is helmet to helmet.

To the other poster, I don't really think watching full football games every week of every year is considered a small sample size.

I'm not talking about form tackling. Form tackling is a rarity in today's football, it went the way of tough defense and not travelling when you dribble in the NBA.
I'm talking about seeing hands on the head, in the facemask, going upward to the helmet in tackles, going straight towards the knees as the game wore on and the defense lost effectiveness. This is not the distinction between form tackling and hitting, which most players go for these days.

In fact, on the two plays sandwiched between the DHB hit, plays to Streater and Reece - the Steeler defender was not even in position to make a tackle nor was a tackle relevant because both were sideline passes while the player was headed out of bounds with absolute certainty. And on both plays, in the act of pushing out or touching the WR, both defenders' hands went straight into the facemask. For no reason that had anything to do with making a tackle sooner or better, and in no attempt to tackle an offensive player. Hands inside helmets.
You're telling me it may be poor form of them to do this? It's not form, I've watched a ton of games when, as normal, a player is pushed out of bounds near the sidelines, by a defender putting both hands on the shoulder pad of the WR, and pushing.
In this case, both plays were hands UP, not near or to the body, but UP in the facemask. A clear swipe as the offensive player headed out of bounds. The Reece one more than the other looked precisely as if the defender was attempting clearly to get an eye poke on Reece's way out of bounds. The defender didn't even try to get down and get a shoulder on Reece which would actually have been a cleaner play.

No, I think despite any argument otherwise that the Steelers, generally, play more to the head on defense than the average team. And that is dirty because there are rules set to deter exactly that kind of thing..

Well aside from other football games that I watch, I watch the Raiders every week of the season. Some teams do it, most don't. Some teams play dirty, some don't. Your team does from what I saw, and what I saw was pretty clear.

I don't see the reason you have to defend it, you don't play for the team and it's not an attack on you. You don't coach them to do it. I would never have argued the Raiders weren't dirty 30 years ago, because they were. Not every team tackles around the head consistently, and not every team gravitates toward the head and knees on defense as the game slips away. I'm not talking about an isolated play here or there. THAT'S every team. I'm talking about more than usual, which is why it stood out in the first place while I was watching the game.

While I'm not going to try to convince you that you are wrong despite what you see, bear in mind that what is shown on TV is not all there is to the story. And that most often "the eye test" is flawed due to small sample sizes.

Damn, you steelers fans are in full denial huh? how many more excuses do you got?

No wonder Ryan Mundy doesn't know how to tackle, nobody on the steelers defense does. (Just look at Ryan Clark, James Harrison, Ike Taylor, Lawrence Timmons in these vids!).

Nothing to see here guys! the steelers aren't dirty or trying to hurt people, Thats just the Saints. The Steelers are just a team that doesn't know how to tackle properly! you can't be mad at incompetence! it aint their fault!

To HG, I understand your points, however, sometimes a swipe at a player can lead to inadvertant injuries. I've swiped at a passing guard trying to steal the bball and broke my thumb on two seperate occasions. If you are tired, deperate, have poor form, or trying to make a play with your body out of position, injuries or penalties will result. Mundy's hit wasn't meant to harm HB or he would have hit him with the crown rather than facemask. If you lead with crown of your helmet, you deserve a penalty/suspension._________________

"Sheep follow the flock for direction and security but scatter at the sight of the lone wolf". Rocky

To HG, I understand your points, however, sometimes a swipe at a player can lead to inadvertant injuries. I've swiped at a passing guard trying to steal the bball and broke my thumb on two seperate occasions. If you are tired, deperate, have poor form, or trying to make a play with your body out of position, injuries or penalties will result. Mundy's hit wasn't meant to harm HB or he would have hit him with the crown rather than facemask. If you lead with crown of your helmet, you deserve a penalty/suspension.

Understood, maybe tiring or desperation. Thanks for a rational post on it. I don't know whether or not Mundy's hit was meant to hurt DHB, but I do know the guy has caused a number of concussions and it looks like he leads with the helmet. I honestly doubt it is all coincidence.

But that's not even what I was looking at or pointing out. Having one player on a defense play dirty does not constitute a dirty team.

I'd rather hear reasons for this stuff and seeing it, rather than have Steeler fan posters try to explain to me why what I am seeing clearly doesn't exist. I wouldn't have even thought anything of it except for the fact that it happened on 3 consecutive plays, and on the last play it looked like nothing more than a swipe at the head when no tackle was even imminent.

And I can't imagine it was innocent on the first play to Streater. Because the guy has to toe tap to stay in bounds. How does someone get poked in the eye on a toe tap? It's not like something that happened accidentally on a gang tackle in the middle of the field, which is usually how accidental eye pokes happen.

To the poster who put up the video on Ziggy Hood. That's definitely a dirty play. However, the play was made by Willie Smith, who has been with the Raiders all of 10 days. I seriously doubt he has been coached by Raider staff to play that way, in 10 days. Not to mention that I know Dennis Allen is more concerned about limiting penalties than he is coaching up players to chop block.
Playing like that on the offensive line I've seen before. Hmmmm, where have I seen that before. Oh yeah, 2 weeks a year every year. When the Raiders play the Broncos. And who coaches the Redskins, from whence Willie Smith came? Mike Shanahan. Who used to coach - ding, ding, ding, teh Broncos who have been chop blocking like that for as long as Shanarat was their HC.
I'm 99% certain Dennis Allen pointed that play out to Willie Smith in reviewing film and let him know not to play that way. Replacement refs missed it, but the regular refs won't, especially with the Raiders.

All Allen has stressed is not making dumb plays that cause penalties to set back the team. Accountability and discipline has been the message to this team from his first day. He's been having the team watch film together so that everyone has been accountable, in front of their peers. From day 1 .All of these things about Allen have come from his mouth in recent and past press conferences, have shown up on the field to be that same truth, and are the reason the Raiders are improving with their lowered quantity of bonehead game altering mistakes that I and all Raider fans have had to choke down for 25 years.