Trolling is a pretty common problem but disrupting multiple eBay sales seems like an unusual thing. Is there some angry collector out there trying to cause problems in the space community? What could they be angry about?

JBoe

Just my thoughts and observations, but I try to give people either selling or buying that have zero feedback the benefit of the doubt. I consider if it's a buyer maybe they are "overly enthusiastic" about the item or not knowledgeable enough to make an informed bid which overly inflates the price. The same concept may be true for sellers thinking they have a great piece not knowing the "true value." The other thing that increases the price is sentimental value.

My experience with a zero feedback seller resulted in me going through the eBay process and channels which resulted in compensation.

While some are trying to break into collecting space memorabilia there are some willing to deceive honest bidders and sellers. Buyer/seller beware!

Besixdouze

My own advice would be to stay away from auctions involving zero feedback bidders.

Case in point: ebay item 281166130957 - Lion Bros. ALT patch sold by a cS member with four legitimate bids (myself included) sold for $129.09. eBay item 131028170759 - Lion Bros. ALT patch sold for $224.72 with 6 bids, 2 zero feedback bidders who pushed the price up to $222 before the final, probably genuine bidder, won the auction.

Regardless of whether all three bidders were honest, I personally don't believe like for like patches more or less double in value in the space of three weeks of their own accord. If they did, I'd be sitting on a small fortune by now.

Most patch collectors quickly realise if they miss out on a patch because it's too expensive, another will come along eventually that may be more affordable. It's really only the extremely rare variants that hold their value I'm thinking Apollo 7 Crew, Apollo 8 Crew, Apollo 12 Recovery Crew, Apollo 15 Silver or Gold Crew patches as well as most of the Gemini patches and even then, bargains can still be found. Check out eBay 380747735815.

Perhaps some unscrupulous sellers holding some of these rarer patches are trying to manipulate the marketplace by artificially inflating prices in this way, who knows? It's a pain whether you're a buyer or seller though.

Gonzo

Then you have this issue on the other end of the scale — sellers with no history.

Case in point eBay 261330050876 — seller has no history at all (0) and has started the bid on an Apollo 12 patch at $100 claiming it is a bullion patch, when it's a Lion Brothers patch (I can't tell from the pic if it has the hallmark, so it could be a pre-hallmark Apollo 12 patch). But still, $100 for a patch that should sell for about $20+/-?

fredtrav

This could be a shill account. Has been a member almost 2.5 years with no feedback. May have had another account that was suspended or bad feedback because of stuff like this. He does say no returns and if listed other items wrong, could have ruined his reputation (if he had one).

Someone who has no idea what they are selling, and is new. But there still is the fact that he has been a member since June 2011.

Besixdouze

I think this is just a case of a seller seeing a similar patch after having trawled the 'completed listings' section of eBay - in this case 161118956223 - and then taking the same description, more or less, and applying it to their own sale presumably in the hope of making the same sort of money should it sell.

It was originally listed with a starting bid of $125. Unsurprisingly, it didn't sell.

I don't believe he's trying to pass it off as a 'bullion' patch as a patch collector might understand it, he only mentions it has 'bullion' highlights in the description which, of course, it does.

First off, fake bidders most often use a guest account to bid, so blocking buyers without a PayPal account will prevent the majority of problems (go to My eBay > Account tab > Site Preferences > Buyer requirements to set this).

It is also possible to block those with negative feedback, which I'm sure most sellers do anyway, but this option can't be used to block bidders with zero feedback.

However, there is another option that can be used to create this block, which may not seem obvious at first glance:

Buyers who may bid on several of my items and not pay for them

Block buyers who are currently winning or have bought [X] of my items in the last 10 days.

Only apply this block to buyers who have a feedback score of [Y] or lower.

Setting the number of items to 1 and the feedback score to 0 will block any bidder with a feedback score of zero from bidding on any of your items.

Of course this will also block genuine new buyers with zero feedback but let's be honest - only a tiny minority of successful sales on eBay are to genuine first time bidders with zero feedback and for a person's first ever purchase on eBay to be a high value space collectible is highly unlikely. In any case a potential bidder can always contact the seller to ask why they are blocked, at which point you can can choose to relax the restrictions or make an exception for that bidder as you see fit.

For those suffering from the hassle of these zero feedback bidders these tips from Jay should be very useful.

Besixdouze

Looks like the seller of these two sets - 321313062782 and 321313042839 - has fallen foul of the infamous zero bidder. Two scarce and poorly presented Gemini crew patches.

fredtrav

I strongly suspect some sellers set up bogus accounts to bid up their items. If it does not get to where they want pricewise, then the 0 bid account bids up to what they really want. Since they 0 bid does not pay for it, they don't have to pay eBay fees. The seller then has the choice to relist or offer a second chance to the next highest bidder. This allows the seller to bid the price up while retaining the option of a second chance or not selling it. I have had this happen to me a couple of times.

I am not saying the patch seller has done this but I do know it happens.

Liembo

Based on the presentation of these two Gemini patches, I don't suspect that was the case, but it certainly does and could have happened.

BlueHalo

It is a lot harder than you think to be a seller, list your item, then create another account and place fake bids on it just to run up the sale amount. Since I am a VeRO and VRT with eBay I have spoken to them on numerous occasions about this type of problem. For one, they have to get around the IP address conflict. Two, create an account that can not be verified to be able to sell and lastly, create an email address that is also not related to the user in some way. The IP Address is your beacon of hope to catch these types of bidders. Once someone logs out and then logs into another account a flag is set at Trust And Safety and it is required for someone in that department to review the flag. Primarily to see if this type of shill bidding occurs. Once discovered all accounts and bids related to that IP Address are removed and closed permanently.

Secondly, to create a fake account, it used to be true that a "Guest Account" could bid on a item, but new restrictions have been put into place as of late 2013 where the seller can block bids from all accounts that do not have a PayPal account, including those "Guest Accounts". No fake bidders are going to create a fake account with a PayPal account that can be traced right back to them. This is done directly through their bank account, credit/debit card, SSN, etc. Which has to be all verified to become an active account.

All you have to do to stop them is set your "Seller's Account Settings" to block all accounts that do not have a PayPal account and problem solved. Hope that helps some of you sellers out there.

Besixdouze

Both these sets of patches have been relisted with a BIN of $500. Maybe someone should point the seller in the direction of this thread.

Astro_Lady

quote:Originally posted by BlueHalo:It is a lot harder than you think to be a seller, list your item, then create another account and place fake bids on it just to run up the sale amount.

Hello everyone, long time lurker first time poster, here.

I do not agree with you, BlueHalo. Being an Information Technology consultant, I'll tell you that, unfortunately, creating a fake account is much easier than you think. What you wrote is what you think it happens, but it actually works differently.

I am not going to disclose here how it works but, believe me, creating a fake account is easy as pie.

That said, fredtrav might be right as I myself asked the seller to provide pictures of the obverse of both the Gemini 11 and 12 patches, to verify their condition, and was told that he couldn't but that they were rare for sure, as an eBay user advised him about that and told him that the last one sold for $900. Hence, $900 is what the seller had in mind and was hoping to get.

While this does not prove "for sure" that he shill bid on his own auctions, anyhow, since registering fake accounts is possible, it would be better not to tell sellers about the value of a patch; if anything, just tell them about its rarity.

JBoe

I find this listing interesting. Check out the hyperlink to 3 bids on this page. Can you out bid or bid against yourself to make the appearance of a popular item? I know with all the discussion of zero feedback or new eBayers, this case is strange. By the way, what is the yellow man next to the ID?

tnperri

He is not bidding against himself. He simply raised his max bid several times. Every time you raise your max bid it counts it as a bid but doesn't increase the current bid.

vidoz

quote:Originally posted by JBoe:By the way, what is the yellow man next to the ID?

It indicates a new user, namely, registered with eBay less than 30 days ago.

Liembo

Bogus bidders are pretty much blowing all of my auctions up this week. It's unfortunate that there is no mechanism to block last minute bids from those with zero feedback. I understand it would be unfair to new bidders, but they seem to come in waves. If only it was a feature one could enable periodically until the troll moves on...