4 shot dead in Herkimer NY

It's good to know I'm not alone in getting a wee tired of the new topics page looking like an MSM headline site with advanced commenting available.

* My best wishes to those killed in this, by the way. I don't mean to belittle the loss of anyone. I just see a perspective issue when it's
breaking....yet a daily (Or near so, on details) occurrence somewhere in our nation. Indeed.

Yes and unfortunatley handguns constitute over 49% of all guns used in mass shootings in the past 30 years. Many were equipped with high-capacity
magazines and were of course semi-automatic.

People will say "Handguns can be hidden. That makes them more dangerous."

While it's true that semi-automatic "assault" rifles have a deadlier punch, don't think that they won't also go after handguns. They'll ban the
high-capacity magazines first and move on from there.

At some point they might even ban semi-automatics universally.

Look, the evidence against guns is damning. I support gun rights. I believe the proper action is to increase the effectiveness of background checks
and to ensure gun owners are responsible. The reason I say this is that because those states with the least rules for gun ownership also tend to have
these mass shootings. You might think this means they'll take guns away from people who deserve to have them, but this is not what I'm arguing.
Rather, guns are getting into the hands of people who OBVIOUSLY should not have them. THAT is my point. I do not believe banning these guns is the
appropriate choice that will serve the most people. That's too impulsive.

Originally posted by mistressofspice
They've identified the suspect in the shootings. Here's the latest I could find on it. www.9wsyr.com...

This is shocking because this type of thing "doesn't happen" in these communities, except it just did.

And it is literally right next to the Remington Firearms plant in Ilion NY. www.remington.com...
I'm sure they'll have to close the plant due to this. sarc
I wonder if the "long arm" was a Remington R-15?

Originally posted by butcherguy
Assault weapon is no longer the descriptive term of choice to be used by the media now.

Now it is 'long' guns.

Now they will demonize anything that isn't a handgun. Once they ban them, all they will have lo demonize will be handguns.

I'd wondered if it was just me noticing that. Hmm.. Well, it's a keystone of public manipulation. Control the language and you control the debate. A
9mm, auto loading, compact target gun becomes an MP-5 Submachine Gun ...by a simple change of wording, when both were completely accurate to use.
Amazing isn't it?

Long Guns are how I've always heard and personally referred to my bolt action rifles used for hunting and long distance shooting. Outside the very
technical range language, I've never actually heard someone refer to an "assault weapon" as a long gun. That's one way to subtely change the
demonizing of ONE class of rifle to ALL rifles in general.

The anti-gun fanatics are clever..I'll never fault them that..or underestimate them.

There's a difference between gun related deaths and mass shootings. It's like saying that the man who snapped and got mad enough to shoot his
cheating wife is the same equivalent as Holmes and the movie theater. There are crimes of passion and then there are crimes of deep insanity.
Whereas we do normally have a couple incidences of mass shootings within a year's time, last year's number of mass shootings was higher than what
would be statistically expected. It's not to say, however, that we haven't been through this before. The 90's featured a very long string of mass
shootings as insane copy cats tended to get brave enough to do what the others had done. Overall, I don't think that these events should necessarily
dictate policy because, frankly, even if you take away guns, as long as there is a will, there is a way. Timothy McVeigh and Theodore Kaczynski would
be astute cases in point and heck, even Holmes built a bomb.

This is actually a pretty great look at it from a statistical viewpoint though I do believe that it may fail in how it decides what is and is not a
mass shooting based on victim count. There were plenty of instances of attempted mass shootings in the 90's that would've not been counted simply
based on a low number of actual victims: www.empiricalzeal.com...

It's good to know I'm not alone in getting a wee tired of the new topics page looking like an MSM headline site with advanced commenting available.

* My best wishes to those killed in this, by the way. I don't mean to belittle the loss of anyone. I just see a perspective issue when it's
breaking....yet a daily (Or near so, on details) occurrence somewhere in our nation. Indeed.

Apparently the Governor thought this was worthy enough to fly by helicopter to Herkimer for a press briefing (photo op) and not all the "other daily
shootings" you referred to.

It's good to know I'm not alone in getting a wee tired of the new topics page looking like an MSM headline site with advanced commenting available.

* My best wishes to those killed in this, by the way. I don't mean to belittle the loss of anyone. I just see a perspective issue when it's
breaking....yet a daily (Or near so, on details) occurrence somewhere in our nation. Indeed.

Apparently the Governor thought this was worthy enough to fly by helicopter to Herkimer for a press briefing (photo op) and not all the "other daily
shootings" you referred to.

Yeah, that's kinda my point. Mass shootings aren't anything new or different if we're talking about this number making a mass shooting. They really
did happen before the true horror of the CT School shooting. They didn't have politicians flying off to make press conferences and they still
don't if it's knife or other some other cause. If it's 3 or more dead and it's a gun involved though, then yes indeed.... Media coverage, wall to
wall and even a Politician to drop in, in this case. All running without end since the CT events. It's impossible to miss, anywhere.

This is the same Governor who just passed the Anti-Gun measures that have New York citizens up in outrage and protest. Even his own cops don't much
care for him over that one. Not playing for a crowd and a cause is he? Naww... never.

Herkimer's my hometown. This sucks. If he's holed up in that block of old buildings on Main St. it's going to be a while before anyone finds him. All
those defunct stores and apartment buildings are honeycombed with ways of getting from one area to the next. I remember running like a madman when I
was a little kid through that labyrinth - and that was when there were still department stores in that block. Now, it's all empty space, deep, dark
corners, and if that guy knows those spaces, he's going to be tough to flush out of there.

Maybe the best idea would be to torch the entire block and just shoot him if he comes out. The local economy wouldn't even feel the impact of the
property loss.

Not much worth saving in that poor little town.

The real irony about that area is that it's sitting on top of trillions of dollars worth of natural gas, and they wouldn't even need fracking to get
to it. The gas is so available there are farms just outside of town where they can light some of the water faucets, and it's been that way since
anyone can remember. Most of that area is like the Saudi Arabia of natural gas. NY State simply won't allow any of it to be touched.
Stupid.

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