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For the ppl that thinks creeps are gonna farm someone when HD releases.. Well, im not violating anything when i say - No.

Well, I'm not in testing at all for HD but I have always said, for the last month or so in Tribe chat and OOC, that I feel the gap between Freep OPNess and Creeps will actually widen and there will be even more disparity then ever before.

When HD is out, the gap may even seem to have closed but we all know what happened last expansion don't we

Once Freeps have finished PvEing, got the best gears, the best Jewels to wear, class trees sorted out, best LI's/weapons etc sorted, they will return in droves and the nightmare will return but in greater force and measure.

I'm not ashamed to say that i'm still playing just because i'm near to rank and i got a lifetime, the real fun is over by long time

So you are playing this game with dislike?

Originally Posted by Manes

and precisely by few months after the game turned into f2p and the scheme behind passed from "how can we make our customers happy" to "how can we squeeze more money from our customers" and the best way to do that, unfortunately, passes from introducing items that affect the game mechanics, if it's annoying on pve go figure on a pvp area and i don't envy the devolepers of the game, what is their reference scheme to make the pvp balanced? Do they consider that all creeps buy skills? Half of them? Just a small number? Do they consider creeps and freeps use brand from store? All of them, part of them, none of them? And fall injury immunity? Store pots? What if in a server all sides use the items in store but in another server that doesn't happen or mostly one side only? Does it make sense anymore to talk about skills? In an online game who's richer starts already in advantage since they can buy a faster pc and a faster connection, but when you put in store some items that can give large advantage, then the game is dead, there's no more competition and it's all pay to win, that's why i made my compliments to Blindings, because when you see kids who come to gank you with all the benefits given by daddy's money and ruin your play, the temptation to take the credit card and give them a lesson back is high, very high, but in the end you resist and don't go down to their level, you know that making this would be exactly what developers want and would be stupid to reward those who ruined the best game in the world, we can talk about fair play for ages but in the end 90% of players are only interested in winning and everything's allowed to reach the goal.

I don't think this is the problem. To be honest, I rarely see anyone using store pots. Maybe it's just me, but I don't think the store pots are ruining PvMP. It would if lots had been using it, but in my opinion that's not the case. The few players who actively use store pots have a bad influence on PvMP, I agree, but players like you ruining PvMP with constant OP/keep flipping and Renown farming have a much bigger negative influence.

Trolling.... ok where did you lost your 2nd age, new auda gear, virtues etc??? I had 2nd age, virtues, new auda gear. If you coming to etten with bad gear, don´t cry if you die fast. I was playing my burg more early-ror then now.

"Yes freeps are strong now. We will get owned first 1-3 months with HD". first, freeps are freaking godmode atm. It´s miracle creeps even play this game anymore. You really should try some creep classes Bob. Have you tested Beta?? i can tell freeps will not get owned. lvl 85 freeps almost can kill lvl 95 high ranks creeps... i wanna see how much lvl 95 freep can facerolled lvl 95 creeps, but that is ok right??

Did you remember glory time of Boromir?? how many uruks he soloed, how brave he was and then BOOOM ezmoder range class Ba (im pretty sure that was Ironbones) pewpew and Boromir died... nerf ba.
So many freeps using this card. Because, creeps need number if they wanna kill FREEP. NOW the book-card is completed.

If you can´t kill few creeps with your chimp same time.... maybe it´s time to look yourself in the mirror. I wanna balanced pvp, i wanna play my burg, i wanna play my creep.

I got all creep classes bob! Rank 8+!For me personally I had neither virtues, second ager nor gear as didn't play since lvl 65. Auda wasn't even in the game then....

I'm referring to the start of ror. Where the fights were 100% at tir gy or gv. When creeps ran up and down inside tir farming every freep they saw. Sure you now say it was due to nrs. Still we werer farmed at even nrs s well. Creeps with 25k moral and freeps still waiting for instance cluster to get jewelleries.

Get real and see to facts..... Sad that you couldn't kill freeps first month, maybe time to retire? I killed loads on my rank 0 Ba first few days. Aye I played a few days at the start of ror so I could have a chance on some comms as I had 0 audacity. But stopped! Partly due to creep ooc. Some comments from certain posters here are 100% contradicting their ooc communication. Their posts here are 100% bs. One point is creep ooc goes warm 24/7 about freep. And that's really good IMO. And freeps have a thing or two to learn from creeps about that. Call it out and assist. And creeps do and the map in, in nrs. Always have, always will. A chance for some 3-4 vs 1 close to a map point. Yummi

That's perfect! Do it more. It's a pvp zone! 2 "factions" sides fighting. We are supposed to kill each other!!!!

Less qq more pvp!

Ps. No one is forcing you to play. But these are the facts. Freeps are stronger! Creeps need numbers. Has been like that since launch. Look at the lore FFS, did sauroman marsh 1000 to helms deep? Vs what 1000 defenders? No he came with 10000! Did sauron himself have 100 orcs in mordor?

Stop playing or stop acting like a little child qqing. (It's like if I in a tennis match come across a stronger player outmatching me in strenght, speed and technique and would tell him. Please can you be gentle... Can't u play with ur left hand or something.... Ain't gonna happen)

U are given the underdog status and can only practice to a certain lvl. U can't win all 1vs 1 but u can team up and together u can try to achieve victory! And for that to happen u need to face a freep raid that wants to give you guys a chane so you have fun as well. There are some out there but not many..

Freeps are stronger! Creeps need numbers. Has been like that since launch. Look at the lore FFS, did sauroman marsh 1000 to helms deep? Vs what 1000 defenders? No he came with 10000! Did sauron himself have 100 orcs in mordor?

Stop playing or stop acting like a little child qqing. (It's like if I in a tennis match come across a stronger player outmatching me in strenght, speed and technique and would tell him. Please can you be gentle... Can't u play with ur left hand or something.... Ain't gonna happen)

Wanna go lore Er? Ooket!
Aragorn, is king for your Men race, Boromir is Captain General, rank 15, and he got killed by LIEUTENANT Lurtz. So, your r15 got killed by r10 creep.
I just talk silly, but so are you.. 12 freeps in instance can freely kill thousands and thousands in PVE INSTANCE. This is game, pvp should be balanced. When its not, the UP side should speak up so it gets equal!! We dont comment here cause we want to be god mode instead of you, but because we want fair fights for both sides. This should be a challenge for you ppl. If u want to kill 10 enemies solo, go do deeds. In ettens you need to learn your class to its core and come to fight! Not mash buttons and kill 10 of us (or survive vs 10 of us). ******not literaly kill 10, for those who didnt understand me*****
Its ok that r1 cant have fair fight, its been made in 1 minute and played for 10. But, should rank 11-12-13-14-15 be easy meal for rank 6 freep? That same freep played 1 week and comes here to face-roll buttons and kill someone who plays 1year-2years...6 years constantly his creep!
Once again, devs sometimes read or hear what we say, its up to us to show them what we need and want.

And that about sports - its not that freep side is all skilled and good players (you have a minnie on your side that types -"INVIT REID", and even he is not easy meal for anyone, but thrust me, he should be). Its like we play basketball on 1 hoop. And its our hoop. And maybe we dont even have sneakers but playing bare foot where you have latest Jordan's model. So we speak up "its not fair" - aka QQ, cause we want some shoes at least and oportunity to score.

Wanna go lore Er? Ooket!
Aragorn, is king for your Men race, Boromir is Captain General, rank 15, and he got killed by LIEUTENANT Lurtz. So, your r15 got killed by r10 creep.
I just talk silly, but so are you.. 12 freeps in instance can freely kill thousands and thousands in PVE INSTANCE. This is game, pvp should be balanced. When its not, the UP side should speak up so it gets equal!! We dont comment here cause we want to be god mode instead of you, but because we want fair fights for both sides. This should be a challenge for you ppl. If u want to kill 10 enemies solo, go do deeds. In ettens you need to learn your class to its core and come to fight! Not mash buttons and kill 10 of us (or survive vs 10 of us). ******not literaly kill 10, for those who didnt understand me*****
Its ok that r1 cant have fair fight, its been made in 1 minute and played for 10. But, should rank 11-12-13-14-15 be easy meal for rank 6 freep? That same freep played 1 week and comes here to face-roll buttons and kill someone who plays 1year-2years...6 years constantly his creep!
Once again, devs sometimes read or hear what we say, its up to us to show them what we need and want.

And that about sports - its not that freep side is all skilled and good players (you have a minnie on your side that types -"INVIT REID", and even he is not easy meal for anyone, but thrust me, he should be). Its like we play basketball on 1 hoop. And its our hoop. And maybe we dont even have sneakers but playing bare foot where you have latest Jordan's model. So we speak up "its not fair" - aka QQ, cause we want some shoes at least and oportunity to score.

P.S. mobile typing, i forgot already what i wrote and typos.
Cheers

If you played since launch you should know it's been like this on and off since launch. Does it come as a surprise for you?

If you played since launch you should know it's been like this on and off since launch. Does it come as a surprise for you?

No, its not surprise, thats my point
We should speak up and yell at them until they make something good of it!
Not just shrug and 'who cares'..
Im doing exactly that, or its called QQ nowadays, whatever. Until they change something, im asking other side to support / or do whatever they can to have fair fights.

Introducing OP's as they are today, they wanted to get the balancing thing of their shoulders, so we can manage it ourselves. It was good idea, but bad way to do it.
We all want them removed.. So we need to tell them that in numbers. Right?
We want balanced fights, we need to...do exactly the same

Its interesting to show your skills in 1 vs 1 fights, at least from creep point of view, other side maybe enjoy showing it in 3+ vs 1. Thats what i dont like.

On the other hand, im just one of the players, maybe others dont agree with me, but I cant be indifferent for the game i "love" and play for several years,when its going in bad direction.

There is many ppl saying that if its not getting better with Helms Deep, they will leave entire game. (creeps ofc).
No creeps, means servers PvP dying in fast pace. It will become this :

If you played since launch you should know it's been like this on and off since launch. Does it come as a surprise for you?

It did to me, yes. Because I played freep in Ettens for first 3 and a half years of Lotro and I never really touched creep, and had little idea of what it was like. But I was still QQ'ing like hell because I was a Guardian, and as previously explained Guardians were for all of that period mostly useless in the Moors.

Then I came to creep to try it out. And my initial thoughts were, 'Jeeeeezus Christ'! What the hell had I been complaining about? Of course I was low rank then, but the higher I got it didn't seem to make that much of a difference. I can still easily picture that rank3 (LM) totally murdering me recently, that still had 100% morale when I fell, and I had hardly put a hair out of place on his elven head. But you know this, you know freeps are stronger, you acknowledge that. I'm not saying I'm entitled to beat a rank3 just because I'm rank12, all I'm asking, using this as a scenario, is a chance, just a fighting chance. Until that happens, if it ever does, we will QQ about it. And you will QQ back at us for QQ'ing - which you have done. So we're both guilty of QQ'ing, aren't we.

If you played since launch you should know it's been like this on and off since launch. Does it come as a surprise for you?

You are entirely right when saying creeps had to rely on numbers in the past. Creeps have pretty much always been the underdog, but survived (or sometimes prevailed) due to outnumbering the freeps and better teamwork. I don't think that's the case anymore. In my opinion, the balance is not that bad. Of course I'm speaking about raid fights now, not spars. Freeps are still slightly stronger, but creeps don't need to rely heavily on numbers anymore (unlike during SoA). Again, not talking about spars but Turbine clearly showed us they don't care about balance in spars, they try to balance out raid fights and I believe they haven't done such a bad job on that.

But due to the flippers it's very rare to find even numbers these days. This is a vicious cycle of course. Especially during the first months after an update, both sides need to grind commendations to buy audacity and this is easiest on creepside. If a few freeps flip it eventually turns into a vicious cycle and that (in my opinion) causes the GV camping after an update. Nowadays we still have lots of flippers because of the mentality of many players. They want easy Ranking Points and flip to the side that is winning at a certain moment. There are less "pure creeps" or "pure freeps". Many players have high ranked toons on both sides. When creeps wipe the freeps a few times, freeps flip to their creep and join the creep raid and therefore make the fight even more unbalanced. Vice versa exactly the same. When creeps are getting farmed, some log to their freep and join them.

If everyone could just play for fun, choose the side you enjoy most, not the side that's easiest or winning. Then numbers will be more balanced and therefore have more balanced fights. I know many creeps will disagree, but I'm certain outnumbering is no longer required to beat the freeps. Slightly outnumbering them is best, but overall the balance is mainly ruined by flippers, not because freeps are tremendously stronger.

There is many ppl saying that if its not getting better with Helms Deep, they will leave entire game. (creeps ofc).
No creeps, means servers PvP dying in fast pace. It will become this :

Cheers

Sadly that is the case. Most of the people I know and speak with, in tribe, in game in general, have seriously considered moving on from lotro if Helm's deep does not seriously turn things around and address the problems this game has. Particularly because of problems in the moors, but not just the moors. It may be, for me personally (and A LOT of others from what I hear), that Lotro has simply run its course. And a new game beckons.

But due to the flippers it's very rare to find even numbers these days ... They want easy Ranking Points and flip to the side that is winning at a certain moment. There are less "pure creeps" or "pure freeps". Many players have high ranked toons on both sides. When creeps wipe the freeps a few times, freeps flip to their creep and join the creep raid and therefore make the fight even more unbalanced.

Flipping is a huge problem, IMO, one which is easily ignored in all the QQ about who is stronger, who has a raid and who has the most OPs.

Early evening yesterday the fraid plus followers wiped the craid a couple of times. More creeps logged on and the advantage switched. Suddenly we didn't have any followers any more and a comical number of freeps suddenyl found urgent dinner or kin commitments. Many of these then turned up on creepside. One purple rank freep typed "tired, gonna call it a night, cya" and logged off, only to appear a few minutes later on creep. This was obvious because his creep's name is an anagram of his freep's name . Seriously, did you think know one would notice?

An evening of creep obliteration of freeps followed - the numbers were just overwhelming. We had a full fraid plus ~6 followers and still got the ON buff. Extraordinary. And the difference in numbers was flippers. All the regular freeps were in the fraid. All the regular creeps were in the craid.

Later on after the craid had disbanded all those flippers came back to freep and grouped up to splatter the few remaining creeps.

You are entirely right when saying creeps had to rely on numbers in the past. Creeps have pretty much always been the underdog, but survived (or sometimes prevailed) due to outnumbering the freeps and better teamwork. I don't think that's the case anymore. In my opinion, the balance is not that bad. Of course I'm speaking about raid fights now, not spars. Freeps are still slightly stronger, but creeps don't need to rely heavily on numbers anymore (unlike during SoA). Again, not talking about spars but Turbine clearly showed us they don't care about balance in spars, they try to balance out raid fights and I believe they haven't done such a bad job on that.

But due to the flippers it's very rare to find even numbers these days. This is a vicious cycle of course. Especially during the first months after an update, both sides need to grind commendations to buy audacity and this is easiest on creepside. If a few freeps flip it eventually turns into a vicious cycle and that (in my opinion) causes the GV camping after an update. Nowadays we still have lots of flippers because of the mentality of many players. They want easy Ranking Points and flip to the side that is winning at a certain moment. There are less "pure creeps" or "pure freeps". Many players have high ranked toons on both sides. When creeps wipe the freeps a few times, freeps flip to their creep and join the creep raid and therefore make the fight even more unbalanced. Vice versa exactly the same. When creeps are getting farmed, some log to their freep and join them.

If everyone could just play for fun, choose the side you enjoy most, not the side that's easiest or winning. Then numbers will be more balanced and therefore have more balanced fights. I know many creeps will disagree, but I'm certain outnumbering is no longer required to beat the freeps. Slightly outnumbering them is best, but overall the balance is mainly ruined by flippers, not because freeps are tremendously stronger.

This is My entire point. I think faster then I write in English and my message doesn't always come through... But it's the players creating a much more harsh environment the it really is. Some tweaks are needed I never said anything else. But main problem is the players...

We can complain how much we want. We will always find ez moders that only think of themselves and how they can gain the most, without spending 1 second of tag Impact on other players.... Not all of us are ez moders but we are unfortunately a minority. So we are fighting "uphill"!

The numbers on creepside tonight are extraordinary - I don't think I've ever seen so many.

Unfortunately it's just impossible to fight - the servers can't take it. In the fight we just had at Tir I had 10 second skill lag. This with a steady 50 fps, 0.0% loss and 90m/s latency. Wtb new hamsters at Turbine. Cheapskates.

Yeah good fun tonight! Some nice fights but in the end we got really frustrated... 12 sec skill delay made the fun drop towards the end. Would have been really nice to fight the hoards with my raid an few soloers.. My count we had 36 reeps at the top peak. Odos hobbit group and few soloers. I guess creeps counted twice my nr here now but good fun.

The creep population was unusually high tonight, and yes there was some fun fights, but the laaag becomes unbearable with such high numbers in a confined space. Often down to single-digit FPS due to combat lag, and almost unplayable skill lag as well, as mentioned. On occasion the lag delay was such that I was still fighting and executing skills (very slowly tho) against targets that had already been called out as dead.

It's a shame that such large scale fights (on a regular basis) are a thing of the past, but I fondly remember some of the multi raid-on-raid action of the past, and there was lag then also, but not nearly as bad as it currently is.

**

For a laugh, I thought some of you might like to be reminded of the madness and mayhem of olden days. Here's some screenies from my LM of a big bash in ettens during SoA. We had 4 raids. In here I see a rank 5 Greto lol, and Elgo is there. Maybe some of you can spot yourself?

WOW ive gotta start playin my BA again to try that new skill out that gives me DF when my personal warleader falls in battle

you must be confused.... you mentioned Blackarrow's and skill...... no no no.

"The internet is a bubble dominated by the loudest, most unrepresentative voices; an infinitesimally small minority of a minority which, deaf to reason and the opinions of others, deludes itself that somehow it is the voice of the majority. An infinite echo chamber of shrieking, witless banality."

Yeah good fun tonight! Some nice fights but in the end we got really frustrated... 12 sec skill delay made the fun drop towards the end. Would have been really nice to fight the hoards with my raid an few soloers.. My count we had 36 reeps at the top peak. Odos hobbit group and few soloers. I guess creeps counted twice my nr here now but good fun.

Don't mind high nr creeps, just wish server could handle it!

You were leading that night, right? I've great respect for keeping the fight up and not hiding from us. We had almost 2 full raids (second raid had 3 full groups), so it must have been very tough for you guys. You all deserve compliments for fighting us anyway. Keep that mentality up!
Oh and I'm honestly sorry we killed you so often. Usually we prefer to kill minstrels, RAT and the raidleader first. You definitely didn't deserve to die so often though.

Originally Posted by colhelm

WOW ive gotta start playin my BA again to try that new skill out that gives me DF when my personal warleader falls in battle

Yeah but a BA can't spam track stealthed wargs. (which is a "subtle" - or obvious - hint that you should stop spam tracking me hehe, I hate that)

[edit: just realized I might be confusing you with someone else. Sorry, I'm bad with names but Arrostorm sounds like the hunter that is continually spam-tracking me. Sorry if I'm confusing you with someone else!]

Originally Posted by Tarmas_Eldar

Welcome back Mudface

Damn it Noobface always decides to go for a temporary welcome back when I'm offline. I bet he's hibernating again. Or will he continue to stay active this time?
If you read this Mud, login more often!

Originally Posted by Gwyndor

For a laugh, I thought some of you might like to be reminded of the madness and mayhem of olden days. Here's some screenies from my LM of a big bash in ettens during SoA. We had 4 raids. In here I see a rank 5 Greto lol, and Elgo is there. Maybe some of you can spot yourself?

Hehe great screenies. I've always preferred old EC without the chicken fence.

Almost 2 full freep raids and we got on buff! What has happens To freepside. Loads of creeps and lag is just mental. Both freepraids disbanned. We cant koll anything and senig on the outcome creeps cant experience even half the lag as u wipe 2 freep raids without loosing almost anyone.

If theses nrs Continue on creep side u wont have anything To fight anymore. We tried for 3 hours and result. Wipe fest after wipe fest and creeps loosing nothing.

Dont like To qq, but some creepleaders come here To talk about fair fights!? Lol on buff on freeps With 2 full raids... Hmm...