I am or I was?

Some Christians claim Jesus is God and use (John 8:58) to support their views;

"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"

These Christians then link the Verse (Exodus 3:14) to try to justify that Jesus is God;

"God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM. [1] This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.'"

Now by Jesus Saying "I_am" identically as God said "I Am" in Exodus 3, Christians assume Jesus is identifying himself as God.

Response:

It is true that Christians have traditionally linked John 8:58 to Exodus 3:14, yet not all Christians do so. Christians such as myself are aware that in Exodus God is revealing his personal covenant name to Moses, whereas in John 8:58 the shift is not on who Jesus is but rather on how long Christ has been in existence. It is Jesus’ comment on the duration of his existence that identifies him as Yahweh God, a fact that will soon become apparent in our rebuttal to Ghounem.

Ghounem:

If we objectively research the history of this verse, we will see that the Older and more authentic Bibles actually reveal that in John 8:58, Jesus does not say "I am" but in reality says "I -was-"

In later centuries, translators manipulated the translation to try to elevate status of Jesus.

Response:

Ghounem has now demonstrated that he is anything but objective in his criticism of the Bible, since he assumes that the scriptures have been tampered with in order to elevate Jesus. Yet, there is not a single shred of MS evidence for this assertion. In fact, both the Quran and the early Muslim sources affirm the authority and preservation of the Bible as it existed during the time of Christ and Muhammad. Seeing that our Bibles are virtually identical to what was in existence during the time of Jesus and Muhammad, Ghounem has absolutely no basis for his assertion.

Interestingly, the earliest biography on the life of Muhammad quotes the Gospel of John as the very Gospel given to Jesus and passed down to his followers:

"Among the things which have reached me about what Jesus the Son of Mary stated in the Gospel which he received from God for the followers of the Gospel, in applying a term to describe the apostle of God, is the following. It is extracted FROM WHAT JOHN THE APOSTLE SET DOWN FOR THEM WHEN HE WROTE THE GOSPEL FOR THEM FROM THE TESTAMENT OF JESUS SON OF MARY: 'He that hateth me hateth the Lord. And if I had not done in their presence works which none other before me did, they had not sin: but from now they are puffed up with pride and think that they will overcome me and also the Lord. But the word that is in the law must be fulfilled, 'They hated me without a cause' (i.e. without reason). But when the Comforter has come whom God will send to you from the Lord's presence, and the spirit of truth which will have gone forth from the Lord's presence he (shall bear) witness of me and ye also, because ye have been with me from the beginning. I have spoken unto you about this that ye should not be in doubt.'

"The Munahhemana (God bless and preserve him!) in Syriac is Muhammad; in Greek he is the paraclete." (Ibn Ishaq, Life Of Muhammad, trans. Alfred Guillaume, pp. 103-104)

It should be noted that this particular citation is taken from John 15:23-16:1. This implies that the Gospel of John was believed by at least Ibn Ishaq to be the very same Gospel conveyed by Jesus to his disciples. Secondly, Ibn Ishaq affirms that the apostle John wrote the fourth Gospel. This serves to debunk Ghounem’s response to a particular article of mine where he attempts to appeal to liberal scholarship to deny Johannine authorship.

Furthermore, there is not a single Greek MS of the Gospel of John where Jesus says, "I was." The Gospel of John was originally written in Koine Greek, and the specific Greek phrase used in John 8:58 is as it appears now, ego eimi- "I am."

Finally, Ghounem also accuses translators of mistranslation so that they could elevate Jesus to divine status. Yet, as we shall shortly see it is not the translators but rather Ghounem who has not presented evidence for the translation he feels accurately renders John 8:58.

Ghounem:

The Greek Septuagint Version, which is the one the Apostles quoted from in the first century, renders Exodus 3:14 as " ego' eimi' ho Ohn'," which translates "I am the Being". The Greek words at John 8:58 "ego eimi" show the use of the verb "eimi" in the historical present because Jesus was talking about himself in relation to Abraham's past.

Response:

First, in the book of Revelation Christ identifies himself as "the Being" who has eternally existed, i.e. Yahweh:

"Look! He is coming with the clouds; every eye will see him, even those who pierced him; and on his account all the tribes of the earth will wail. So it is to be. Amen. 'I am the Alpha and Omega', says the Lord God, 'The Being/The One (ho on) who is and who was and who is to come, the ALMIGHTY (pantokrator)’." Revelation 1:7-8

Jesus Christ, the coming pierced One, identifies himself as "The Being" (ho on) who eternally exists, the Almighty. The phrase "who is and who was" refers to the eternal nature of God, and hence implicitly affirms that Jesus is Yahweh:

"And the angels of the waters say, `You are just, O Holy One, who are and who were, for you have judged these things; because they shed the blood of saints and prophets, you have given them blood to drink. It is what they deserve!' And I heard the altar respond, 'Yes, O Lord, the ALMIGHTY (pantokrator), your judgements are true and just!'" Rev. 16:5-7 NRSV

Therefore, Jesus in Revelation 1:8 is claiming to be the eternal God Yahweh.

"Listen to me, O Jacob, and Israel, whom I called: I AM HE (ani hu); I am the First, and I am the Last." Isaiah 48:12 NRSV

That the phrase "I AM" in Isaiah implies Deity can be clearly seen in the following verses:

"Now then, listen, you wanton creature (i.e. Babylon), lounging in your security and saying to yourself, 'I AM (Greek Septuagint- ego eimi), and there is none besides me’… You have trusted in your wickedness and have said, 'No one sees me.’ Your wisdom and knowledge mislead you when you say to yourself, 'I AM, and there is none besides me.'" Isaiah 47:8, 10

God rebukes Babylon for claiming to be the "I AM", believing herself to be a God like Yahweh. Hence, the "I AM" is used to denote absolute Deity and sovereignty, being used as a synonym for Yahweh.

Compare Yahweh's words with Jesus:

"Then Jesus, knowing all that was to happen to him, came forward and asked them, 'Whom are you looking for?' They answered, 'Jesus of Nazareth.' Jesus replied, 'I AM HE'(ego eimi)… When Jesus said to them, 'I am he,' they stepped back and fell to ground." John 18:4-6 NRSV

The fact that the soldiers fell to the ground when Jesus uttered the words "I AM" affirms that the phrase served to identify Christ as Yahweh God. Otherwise, there would be no reason for the soldiers' falling down to the ground.

Finally, Jesus applies the very title of Yahweh in Isaiah 48:12, "First and Last," to himself in Revelation 1:17-18:

"When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he placed his right hand on me, saying, `Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last, and the living one. I was dead, and see I am alive forever and ever, and I have the keys of Death and Hades'." NRSV

Hence, from no matter what angle we look at it, there is no escaping the fact that Jesus does identify himself as Yahweh God.

Second, Ghounem incorrectly classifies the usage of ego eimi in John 8:58 as a historical present. What is interesting is that this argument originally comes from the Jehovah's Witnesses. The Witnesses have consistently tried to find reasons to avoid the force of the present tense verb used by Jesus. One way the JWs have tried avoiding the present tense is to classify John 8:58 as a historical present.

Yet, Greek scholars such as Daniel B. Wallace explain why John 8:58 cannot be classified as a historical present:

The text reads: prin 'Abraam genesthai ego eimi ("before Abraham was, I am"). On this text, Dennis Light wrote an article in defense of the New World Translation in the Bible Collector (July-December, 1971). In his article he discusses ego eimi which the New Word Translation renders, "I have been." Light defends this translation by saying, "The Greek verb eimi, literally present tense, must be viewed as a historical present, because of being preceded by the aorist infinitive clause referring to Abraham's past" (p. 8). This argument has several flaws in it: (1) The fact that the present tense follows an aorist infinitivehas nothing to do with how it should be rendered. In fact, historical presents are usually wedged in between aorist (or imperfect) indicatives,not infinitives. (2) If this is a historical present, it is apparently the only historical present in the NT that uses the equative ve
rb emi. The burden of proof, therefore, lies with the one who sees eimi as ever being used as a historical present. (3) If this is a historical present it is apparentlythe only historical present in the NT that is in other than the third person.

The translation of the New World Translation understand the implications of ego eimi here, for in their footnote to this text in the NWT, they reveal their motive for seeing this as a historical present: "It is not the same as… (ho ohn, meaning 'the Being' or 'The I Am') at Exodus 3:14, LXX." In effect, this is a negative admission that if ego eimi is not a historical present, then Jesus is here claiming to be the one who spoke to Moses at the burning bush, the I AM, the eternally existing one, Yahweh (cf. Exod. 3:14 in the LXX, ego eimi ho on). (Wallace, Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics [Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1996], pp. 530-531 bold emphasis ours)

Robert M. Bowman Jr. concurs. Commenting on a 1957 Watchtower article where the JWs tried to defend their view on John 8:58 being a historical present, Bowman states:

"The article in question was unable to cite any scholarly writings of any kind in support of their claim that John 8:58 was an historical present. Instead, they simply quoted definitions and illustrations of the idiom from two textbooks in Greek Grammar, Hadley and Allen's Greek Grammar and A. T. Robertson's massive Grammar. Ironically, these two sources themselves disprove that John 8:58 is an historical present, sometimes in the very words quoted by the Watchtower! The following points prove beyond reasonable doubt that the historical present is irrelevant to John 8:58.

1. The historical present is an idiom in which past events are narrated, story-telling fashion, in the present tense, as a vivid, dramatic way of projecting the reader or listener into the narrative. In John 8:58, on the other hand, Jesus' words do not tell a story or describe a past event, but instead simply state a comparison between Abraham and Jesus.

All of the Greek grammars agree on this understanding of the historical present. Hadley and Allen are cited by the Watchtower itself as stating that the idiom is used 'in vivid narration.' Robertson agrees. Some Grammars distinguish between the historical present used in records (sometimes called 'annalistic' use) and that used in narratives (usually called the 'dramatic'); a few divide the dramatic between the historical narratives and reports of dreams and visions. According to Robertson, the New Testament uses the dramatic form of the historical present; but in nay case, Christ's words n John 8:58 do not fit any of these categories of historical presents.

This idiom is common in all languages, including English; Funk and Wagnalis Standard Desk Dictionary defines it as 'the present tense used to narrate a past event.' In English it is most common in conversation, not writing. Robert Funk gives the following sentence as an example: 'Then these guys come in see, and I say to them, "Where do you think you're going?"' In both Greek and English, then, the historical present is defined and used the same way. There is simply no valid way to define historical presents to include John 8:58." (Bowman, Jehovah's Witnesses, Jesus Christ, & the Gospel of John [Grand Rapids, MI; Baker Book House, 1995],pp. 100-101)

In light of the preceding comments, any attempts at viewing John 8:58 as a historical present is purely wishful thinking.

Ghounem:

That is why some translations render it differently.

For example, An American Translation reads. "I existed before Abraham was born!",

Moffatt, "I have existed before Abraham was born",

Sacred Bible, "Before Abraham existed, I was existing",

The New Testament, "Jesus said to them, 'I tell you, I existed before Abraham was born!",

The Four Gospels According the the Sinaitic Palimpsest, "He said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I have been.",

The Twentieth Century New Testament, "Believe me 'Jesus replied, 'before Abraham was born I was already what I am.",

The Modern New Testament, "Jesus said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Before Abraham was born, I was."

The Syriac New Testament, "Jesus said to them: Verily, verily, I say to you, That before Abraham existed, I was."

Response:

Interestingly, Ghounem cites translations endorsed by Jehovah's Witnesses to prove that John 8:58 should be translated as "I was" or "I have been." Yet the fact remains that even if one were to try and translate the verb in the past tense this still does not weaken the impact of Jesus' statement. The whole point that Christ was trying to establish is that whereas Abraham came into being, he himself has always existed since he has no beginning to his life.

The contrasting verbs Jesus uses, genesthai and eimi bring this out more clearly:

Meaning of the verb Genesthai and its related verb form Ginomai

Robertson, Word Pictures In The New Testament, John 8:58

{Before Abraham was} (prin abraam genesqai). Usual idiom with prin in positive sentence with infinitive (second aorist middle of ginomai) and the accusative of general reference, "before coming as to Abraham," "before Abraham came into existence or was born." {I am} (egw eimi). Undoubtedly here Jesus claims eternal existence with the absolute phrase used of God. The contrast between genesqai (entrance into existence of Abraham) and eimi (timeless being) is complete. See the same contrast between en in # 1:1 and egeneto in # 1:14. See the contrast also in # Ps 90:2 between God (ei, art) and the mountains (genhqhnai). See the same use of eimi in # Joh 6:20; 9:9; 8:24, 28; 18:6.

Friberg, Analytical Greek Lexicon

ginomai: (1) as what comes into existence become, come to be, originate, w. the distinctive sense arising from the context; (a) of persons. be born, appear (RO 1.3)…

Louw-Nida, Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament: Semantic Domains, p.158

Was, I am (genesqai, egw eimi). It is important to observe the distinction between the two verbs. Abraham's life was under the conditions of time, and therefore had a temporal beginning. Hence, Abraham came into being, or was born (genesqai).Jesus' life was from and to eternity. Hence the formula for absolute, timeless existence, I am (egw eimi).

Meaning of the verb Eimi

Louw-Nida, Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament: Semantic Domains, p.157

I. eimi has the force of a predicate [i.e. is the substantive verb]: to be, i.e. 1. To exist; a. passages in which the idea of the verb preponderates, and some person or thing is said to exist by way of distinction from things non-existent. Estin ho Theos, Heb 11:6; ho on kai ho an [W. 68(66), cf.182(172); B.50(43)], Rev 1:4, [8; iv.8]; 11.17; 16:5; en arche an ho logos, Jn 1:1; prin Abraham genesthai, ego eimi, John 8:58 [so WH mrg in 24, 28; 13:19 (see II.5 below)]

II.5 The formula ego eimi (I am he), freq. In the Gospels, esp. in John, must have its predicate supplied mentally, inasmuch as it is evident from the context… spec. I am the Messiah, Mk 13:6; 14:62; Luke 21:8; john 4:26; 8:24,28; 13:19…

Kittel, TDNT (1 vol. Abridgement), p. 207

ego eimi as a self-designation of Jesus in Jn 8:58 (cf. 8:24; 13:19) stands in contrast to the genesthai applied to Abraham. Jesus thus claims eternity. As he is equal to the Father (5:18ff.), what is ascribed to the Father is attributed to him too (cf. Is. 43:10 LXX). The context and the ego formulation are both Jewish. The point is not Jesus' self-identification as the Messiah ("I am he") but his supratemporal being.

Carson, Gospel of John (PNTC), John 8:58

Once more Jesus solemnly announces, I tell you the truth. If he had wanted to claim only that he existed before Abraham, it would have been simpler to say, 'before Abraham was, I was.' Instead, bringing forward the use of ego eimi found in vv. 24, 28, Jesus says, 'before Abraham was born, I am.' Whatever doubts may attach themselves to whether or not ego eimi should be taken absolutely in vv. 24, 28, here there can be none.

Explanation and Meaning of John 8:58

Bowman, JWs, Jesus Christ, and the Gospel of John, p.124.

"The words ego eimi in John 8:58 do not function as a title of Christ, but are a statement of his eternality (and, implicitly, his deity)."

Rhodes, Reasoning from the Scriptures with the JWs; pp.113-120

p. 118 "Jesus' use of ego eimi constituted a claim to be eternal--to exist without ever having experienced a beginning--in contrast to Abraham."

White, The Forgotten Trinity, ch. 6, pp. 95-104, "I am He"

p. 97 "The vast majority of translators see, as do many commentators, that there is a clear differentiation being made here between the derivative existence of Abraham and the eternal existence of the Lord Christ."

p. 67 "Over against Abraham's fleeting span of life Jesus places his own timeless present. To emphasize this eternal present he sets over against the aorist infinitive, indicating Abraham's birth in time, the present indicative, with reference to himself; hence, not I was, but I am.

Morris, New Testament Theology; p.235-238 The "I Am" Sayings

p. 237 "Jesus also outrages his opponents by saying, "Before Abraham was, I am" (8:58). It is not easy to see this as anything less than the language of deity, for Jesus is affirmingthat he has timeless existence."

Vos, Can I Really Believe?; p. 100

To the Jews, who claimed Abraham as Father, Jesus asserted, "Before Abraham Came to be, I am" (John 8:58, literal translation). By this Jesus taught there was a sense in which the idea of birth and beginning did not apply to Him; in Him was eternal existence (cf. Exodus 3:14).

Wuest, The Deity of Jesus in the Greek Texts of John and Paul, Bibliotheca Sacra, Jul 62, pp. 220-221

The AV reports our Lord as saying to the Jews, "Before Abraham was, I am" (John 8:58 AV). "Was" is ginomai, the verb of "becoming," not eimi, the verb of being. It is ingressive aorist, signifying entrance into a new condition. Our Lord said, "Before Abraham came into existence, I am." He does not contrast Abraham's previous existence with His eternity of existence, but Abraham's coming into existence with His eternal being. There is a contrast between Abraham as a created being and our Lord as uncreated, the self-existent, eternal God.

Vincent's Word Studies on John 8:58.

Was, I am (genesqai, egw eimi). It is important to observe the distinction between the two verbs. Abraham's life was under the conditions of time, and therefore had a temporal beginning. Hence, Abraham came into being, or was born (genesqai). Jesus' life was from and to eternity. Hence the formula for absolute, timeless existence, I am (egw eimi).

Bowman: Why You Should Believe in the Trinity; pp. 98-101 "I Am"

p. 100 "In this context, Jesus does not merely claim to be older than Abraham. Gabriel or any of the angels, or even the devil, could have claimed as much. Are we really to believe that Gabriel or the devil could say, "Before Abraham came into existence, I am"? The truth is that this statement was a claim to be eternal, to exist without beginning, in contrast to Abraham, who had a beginning."

Grudem: Systematic Theology, p. 169, "I am"

"It is also indicated in Jesus' bold use of a present tense verb that implies continuing present existence when he replied to his Jewish adversaries, "Before Abraham was, I am" (John 8:58)."

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Complete Commentary

John 8:58. Before Abraham was, I am --The words rendered "was" and "am" are quite different. The one clause means, "Abraham was brought into being"; the other,, "I exist."The statement therefore is not that Christ came into existence before Abraham did (as Arians affirm is the meaning), but that He never came into being at all, but existed before Abraham had a being; in other words, existed before creation, or eternally (as # Joh 1:1). In that sense the Jews plainly understood Him, since "then took they up stones to cast at Him," just as they had before done when they saw that He made Himself equal with God (# Joh 5:18).

John Calvin's Commentary on John 8:58

"Nor do I disapprove of the opinion of Chrysostom, that the present tense of the verb is emphatic; for he does not say, I was, but I am; by which he denotes a condition uniformly the same from the beginning to the end. And he does not say, Before Abraham WAS, but, Before Abraham WAS MADE; which implies that Abraham had a beginning.

Chrysostom, The Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers; Volume 14: Homilies On the Gospel of St. John, Homily 55 (written late 4th century)

Verse 58, 59. "Jesus saith unto them, Before Abraham was, I Am. Then took they up stones to cast at Him."

Seest thou how He proved Himself to be greater than Abraham? For the man who rejoiced to see His day, and made this an object of earnest desire, plainly did so because it was a day that should be for a benefit, and belonging to one greater than himself. Because they had said, "The carpenter's son" (Matthew 13:55), and imagined nothing more concerning Him, He leadeth them by degrees to an exalted notion of Him. Therefore when they heard the words, "Ye know not God," they were not grieved; but when they heard, "before Abraham was, I Am," as though the nobility of their descent were debased, they became furious, and would have stoned Him.

"He saw My day, and was glad." He showeth, that not unwillingly He came to His Passion, since He praiseth him who was gladdened at the Cross. For this was the salvation of the world. But they cast stones at Him; so ready were they for murder, and they did this of their own accord, without inquiry.

But wherefore said He not, "Before Abraham was, I was," instead of "I Am"? As the Father useth this expression, "I Am," so also doth Christ; for it signifieth continuous Being, irrespective of all time. On which account the expression seemed to them to be blasphemous. Now if they could not bear the comparison with Abraham, although this was but a trifling one, had He continually made Himself equal to the Father, would they ever have ceased casting stones at Him?

Witmer, Did Jesus Claim to be God, Bibliotheca Sacra, January 1961, pp.152-153

The most emphatic claim of Jesus to deity is the statement in His discussion with the Jews, "Before Abraham was born, I am" (John 8:58, A.S.V.) The Jews brought the name of Abraham, their physical and spiritual father, into the conversation (vss. 52-53). Jesus seized upon it to lead on to His final claim in the verse already quoted, startling the Jews by saying: "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day; and he saw it, and was glad" (vs. 56). When the Jews responded with a question as to how a man as young as Jesus could have seen Abraham, "Jesus claims eternal existence with the absolute phrase used of God." [Archibald Thomas Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament, V, 158-59.]

Jesus did not claim mere pre-existence to Abraham, which would have been expressed by the imperfect tense of the verb used concerning Abraham, but eternal existence, the self-existence that belongs to God alone.

Young, Intermediate New Testament Greek, p.166

In John 8:58 prin Abraham genesthai ego eimi (before Abraham came into existence, I am) the indeclinable Abraham functions as the accusative subject. With the divine ego eimi the idea is more than Christ's existing before Abraham; it means that He eternally exists (Barrett 1978:352).

Kittel, TDNT (1 vol. Abridgement), p. 207

ego eimi as a self-designation of Jesus in Jn 8:58 (cf. 8:24; 13:19) stands in contrast to the genesthai applied to Abraham. Jesus thus claims eternity. As he is equal to the Father (5:18ff.), what is ascribed to the Father is attributed to him too (cf. Is. 43:10 LXX). The context and the ego formulation are both Jewish. The point is not Jesus' self-identification as the Messiah ("I am he") but his supratemporal being.

Robertson's Word Pictures on John 8:58

{Before Abraham was} (prin abraam genesqai). Usual idiom with prin in positive sentence with infinitive (second aorist middle of ginomai) and the accusative of general reference, "before coming as to Abraham," "before Abraham came into existence or was born." {I am} (egw eimi). Undoubtedly here Jesus claims eternal existence with the absolute phrase used of God. The contrast between genesqai (entrance into existence of Abraham) and eimi (timeless being) is complete. See the same contrast between en in#1:1 and egeneto in#1:14. See the contrast also in # Ps 90:2 between God (ei, art) and the mountains (genhqhnai). See the same use of eimi in # Joh 6:20; 9:9; 8:24,28; 18:6

Warfield, International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, "Trinity"

"… He removes all doubt as to the essential nature of His oneness with the Father by explicitly asserting His eternity ('Before Abraham was born, I am,' Jn 8:58)…"

Treasury of Scripture Knowledge on John 8:58

*I am. That our Lord by this expression asserted his divinity and eternal existence, as the great I AM, appears evident from the use of the present tense, instead of the past tense, from its being in answer to the Jews, who enquired whether he had seen Abraham, and from its being thus understood by the multitude, who were exasperated at it to such a degree that they took up stones to stone him.

John 1:1 also points to Jesus' preexistence as the Logos: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God." While he became (egeneto) "flesh" at a specific point in time (1:14), the Word already was (en) in the beginning of time as we know it. Along the same lines Jesus makes an astounding claim to his Jewish antagonists in 8:58: "Before Abraham came into existence, I am." The sacred name of the God of Israel seems to underlie this claim, and in any case the attribute of preexistence is clearly emphasized. But even more is implied here. The contrast between the verbs genesthai (aorist) as applied to Abraham and eimi (present) as applied to Christ is striking. C. H. Dodd puts it this way:

The implication is that Jesus does not stand within the temporal series of great men, beginning with Abraham and continuing through the succession of the prophets, so as to be compared with them. His claim is not that He is the greatest of the prophets, or even greater than Abraham himself. He belongs to a different order of being. The verb genesthai is not applicable to the Son of God at all.He stands outside the range of temporal relations.(C. H. Dodd, The Interpretation of the Fourth Gospel (Cambridge: Cambridge University, 1985 [1953]) 261)

As great as Abraham was in God's purposes, he was only human and thus inferior to the eternal Son of God.

Christ Himself spoke of His preexistence in connection with His claims of deity, as in John 8:58, "Before Abraham was, I AM."

Clarke's Commentary, The Old Testament, Vol. 1, p. 725

Our blessed Lord solemnly claims to himself what is intended in this Divine name JAH, John 8:58: "Before Abraham was, (genesqai, was born,) egw eimi, I AM," not I was, but I am, plainly intimating his Divine eternal existence. Compare Isaiah 43:13. And the Jews appear to have well understood him, for then took they up stones to cast at him as a blasphemer.

People's New Testament Commentary on John 8:58

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. A solemn and official declaration, preceded by 'Verily, verily' [see PNT 'Joh 3:3']. The utterance is a remarkable one. It does not merely assert that he was before Abraham, but before Abraham was, I AM. It identifies with the I AM of the Old Testament. Divinityhas no past tense, no future tense, but always the present."

(The following citations from biblical scholars have been adapted and modified from the following article.

Ghounem:

Jesus knew he existed before the world was made, but this doesn't prove he was God Almighty. (John 17:5) Many angels also existed before the world was created. (Job 38:7).

Response:

The problem with Ghounem's comparison is that none of the angels existed in the same divine glory that God existed in. Yet, Jesus claimed that he personally existed in that very same divine glory:

"And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had WITH YOU before the world began." John 17:5

Interestingly, Yahweh swears to never give his own glory to another:

"I am the LORD; that is my name! I will not give my glory to another or my praise to idols." Isaiah 42:8

"For my own sake, for my own sake, I do this. How can I let myself be defamed? I will not yield my glory to another." Isaiah 48:11

Yet Jesus claims to have preexisted in the same glory that the Father had before the creation of the world. This affirms that both Father and Son are the one God Yahweh.

Furthermore, Jesus is presented in the very same Gospel as the Creator of all things. This would also include the angelic host of heaven:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made… He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him… The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth." John 1:1-3, 10, 14

Ghounem's comparison does not hold any weight.

Ghounem:

In Exodus 3:14 God was using this as a title and name to be used against the Egyptians. A Bible scholar Dr. J.H. Hertz said that in that phrase 'I am that I am' the main emphasis in on the active manifestation of God's Divine existence. He said that God was about to show himself in behalf of his people in great and wonderful way. He said that "I will be what I will be" is also an approved rendering.

The footnote to the NASB Bible agrees and says, "1.14 Or I WILL BE WHAT I WILL BE"

When Jesus used the phrase he was not using it as a name or title. He was only explaining his pre-human existence:

Response:

Let us repeat Ghounem's citation of Dr. Hertz, this time with added emphasis:

A Bible scholar Dr. J.H. Hertz said that in that phrase 'I am that I am' the main emphasis in on the active manifestation of God's Divine existence

The "I Am" statement in Exodus emphasizes God's divine existence. This divine existence is eternal existence. We have demonstrated that this is precisely the point Jesus was making, namely that unlike Abraham who had a beginning to his existence Jesus' existence is timeless and eternal. Hence, Dr. Hertz's comment serves to identify Jesus as the eternally existing One, Yahweh God. Ghounem has failed to disprove the orthodox Trinitarian interpretation of John 8:58.

Ghounem:

Thus in harmony with the above, the NWT correctly translates that verse as:

"Jesus said to them: 'Most truly I say to YOU, Before Abraham came into existence, I have been.'"

Response:

As we had stated earlier, this is not a problem if one does not assume that the phrase "I have been" is a denial of Jesus' eternal preexistence. As the Greek authorities have stated, Jesus' contrast of the verbs genesthai and eimi affirm that Christ' whole point was to accentuate his timeless existence to that of Abraham's created existence.

Furthermore, the real problem is not the phrase "I have been" or "I was", but rather the attempt of translators in trying to retain the force of the Greek construction in English. As Dr. James R. White notes in his comments on the translation of John 8:58 as "I have been" or "I was":

"Allegedly many of these translations are viewing the phrase as what Dr. A. T. Robertson called a 'progressive present.' There are many instances in historical narrative or conversation where the Greek will use a present tense verb that is best rendered in English by the perfect tense. John 15:27 would be a good example: 'because you have been with me from the beginning.' The verb is in the present tense, but the context makes it clear that it is in reference to both the past and the present. Robertson notes that this is a common idiom in the New Testament, though he also adds the fact that, in his opinion, John 8:58 is 'absolute' and should be rendered as such (which he always does in his works). It should also be noted that it is the deficiency of the English that is to blame for the rendering-to place weight on the meaning of the English perfect tense when rendering the Greek present tense in this way would be in error." (White, The Forgotten Trinity- Recovering the Heart of Christi
an Belief [Minneapolis MN; Bethany House Publishers, 1998], p. 97)

Finally, Ghounem claims that the NWT "correctly" translates the verse without giving us his reasons why he thinks they did. He simply tosses out some minor points hoping to convince uninformed readers, yet fails to delve deeper into the real issues.

In conclusion, we again have seen that Ghounem's points crumble under a careful analysis and examination of God's inspired Word, the Holy Bible.

Different Translations of John 8:58

We present a list of translations which translate John 8:58 in a variety of ways. We do this solely to demonstrate integrity in presenting evidence for the different renderings alluded throughout our article, allowing the readers to compare and come to their own conclusions.

American Standard Version - Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was born, I am.

New International Version - "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"

New American Standard - Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."

Bible in Basic English - Jesus said to them, Truly I say to you, Before Abraham came into being, I am.

Wuest's Expanded Translation - Most assuredly I am saying to you, Before Abraham came into existence, I AM.

Young's Literal Translation - Jesus said to them, 'Verily, verily, I say to you, Before Abraham's coming -- I am;'

The New Testament Or Rather The New Covenant- S. Sharpe: "I was before Abraham".

A Bible, A New Translation- J. Moffatt: "I existed before Abraham was born"

The New Testament in the Language of the Day- W. G. Beck: "I was before Abraham"

The Simple English Bible: "I was alive before Abraham was born"

The Twentieth Century New Testament: "before Abraham existed I was"

The New Testament in the Language of the People- C. B.Williams: "I existed before Abraham was born"

The Bible-An American Translation- E. Goodspeed (NT): "I existed"

The Unvarnished New Testament- A. Gaus: "I have already been"

The Authentic New Testament- H. J. Schonfield: "I existed"

The Complete Gospels- R. J. Miller (Editor): "I existed"

New American Standard Bible 1963-1970 editions: "I have been"-alternative rendering

The Expository Times, 1996, p. 302- Kenneth Mckay: 'I have been in existence since before Abraham was born'

The Bible in World English: Jesus answered, `I tell you the truth. I already was before Abraham was born.'