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Seat twisting?

This may be a silly question. I have been using an old steel welded rowing frame and finally decided it was time to build a more "modern" set up. I will be using standard 1 5/8 aluminum pipe with Hollaender fittings. Has anyone with a setup like this ever had any issues with their captain's seat twisting during aggressive rowing, either the seat mount itself or the pipe it is mounted on? I am trying to decide if I need to cope the pipe to prevent ill-timed movements.

as long as the seat bar is not the elevated style, you won't see any movement. the elevated seat bar is where there might be some concern of tweaking or twisting under crazy pressure. i've never seen this first hand but have heard others that i trust express concern. raising the center of gravity puts a lot of pressure on the hardware. add the force of a 200 lb guy all geeked up on camp coffee and headed for a nasty class IV = lots of torque. goo and the other forum raftheads might chime in on this subject. urban myth? take care, abel6wt

I haven't completed or tested my new frame yet, but going from a welded frame to a screw together type got me thinking about the possibility of movement. My set screws have "teeth." Thanks for the advice on keeping it together as much as possible to avoid lack of bite on the scarring - that makes a lot of sense.

You can also "pin" those fittings. Added to the setscrews, or even without them, they can't twist.

I have had the type of rowing seat that uses two U Bolts to clamp to the tube slip. It always happens in the middle of the most important move on the river, and all of a sudden your seat is insisting you to lay down on the job. Very annoying! Of course it all comes down to tightening the thing down BEFORE you start down the river. ---- Who knew?

Seat security issues

The bar itself probably won't twist, but the seat can spin around on the bar. Doesn't matter how hard you reef down on those set screws, they just don't have enough bite to keep them from moving on you, especially if you get one of those big, corn-fed Iowa farm boys in the saddle (no offense to the aforementioned livestock). I've even seen it happen with the U-bolt seat plate setups.

As Jim suggested, you're better off through-bolting your Hollaenders to the pipe. You could go with quick-release pins, eliminating the need for through-bolts, but some users have reported that the holes eventually ream themselves out because the pins are harder metal (steel) than the pipe (aluminum). If the holes do ream out a bit, you can get a metallic clicking sound every time you pull on the oars. If you're float hunting, this sound is telegraphed clear around the next bend, and critters are not as apt to linger on the bank to see what you are... you'll see less game from the boat.

If it was me, I'd just weld a flat plate on my seat bar and bolt the seat to that. It's much stronger.

I noticed that west marine has a 12 position locking swivel mount by B and M listed on their website. I haven't gone into the store to see if they have it locally, but I may try to pick one up for my passenger seat.

Lending a hand to your seat...

Originally Posted by BrowningLeverAction

I noticed that west marine has a 12 position locking swivel mount by B and M listed on their website. I haven't gone into the store to see if they have it locally, but I may try to pick one up for my passenger seat.

It's that 12th position B & M... I'd be concerned with

Row station on a river raft or cataraft should remain unmodified, centered and stable... No swivelin' do the twist thang.

Worried about the seat 'bar' rotating: ID inner diameter --- OD outer
1.) Thru-bolt pipe and ID or OD fitting - note this is common on ID fittings
2.) Quick-pin same holes drilled for a thru-bolt - good on both ID & OD fittings*couple issues here with both means of connection, but have little to do w/ regards to strength:
a.) ID fittings have the tendency at most shops to be a 1 shot deal on having holes line up (good idea to stamp a label on mating parts)
b.) OD w/ set screws (single or double) are still a good idea because there is extra wiggle 'ID' of fitting for OD of pipe... as in example 'a' most shops will not be accurate enough to make pinning a universal fit.

Worried about 'seat' rotating on a well anchored frame cross-bar:
1.) Run a thru-bolt (2 or 3 if you like) down into the seat-plate and cross-bar
2,) U-bots set-up with thru-bolt down the middle like in '1'.
3.) Weld seat plate on (make sure it's were you want it!)
4.) ID fittings with plates will need double set-screws and a thu-bolt or pin through pipe.

I'd share a few more recipes... however, our raft repair service as well as frame building is in overdrive.

There have been a few times I would like to have a locking swivel option on the rowers seat, but not when I'm rowing. And like Brian, I'm skeptical of anything that might some day get loose and swivel at the wrong time. Certainly be exciting if it did.

But Brian's post got me thinking about putting a pin through my rower's seat mount to insure the seat plate does not twist on the pipe if I forget to tighten it properly in the future. (Not very likely now that I have experienced the results.) But that reminded me that I prefer to have my rowing seat tipped SLIGHTLY forward in order to enable a stronger (better braced) forward push on the oars when needed. I have a welded seat plate on another frame that is exactly level, and I don't like it.

Any thoughts or different preferences out there? I use a short seat back, would that make a difference to your preference? I also use a cooler for a seat sometimes, and when I do I prefer to tip it slightly forward as well. Any ideas on an easy way to keep it from slipping back?

I agree on the forward slant to a "low back seat"... like a slant-board day frame for whitewater guiding - leverage with balance is key to more power plus conservation of motion. I also do it to shed water as well as slanting my cooler position the same way if I'm rowing atop it.

Just the opposite on a high-back seat tho... rock it back a bit from level - otherwise it won't be all that comfortable, hit you on the back by getting in the way even more-so when takin' a long haul back on the oars.

This is why I emphasized 'where ya want it' especially in welding or by u-bolt plates then drilling/making a thru-bolt or pinning option.

Regarding the swivel mount, I am not going to put this on my rower's seat. I understand the issues with any unnecessary moving parts. However, I am considering the locking swivel for my front passenger seat, so they can face forward, outboard (on lazy stretches), or inboard for some social interaction. Does any one have any good or bad experiences with the locking swivels? I realize I might be hijacking my own thread a little bit here.

I plan on taking a couple of runs down the Eagle River without any thru-bolts on my rowing seat or crossbar (but good tight u-bolts, Jim), and see what happens. If there is movement, then a-welding I will go. I appreciate the suggestion to tilt the seat forward slightly.

Question-

Originally Posted by BrowningLeverAction

Regarding the swivel mount, I am not going to put this on my rower's seat. I understand the issues with any unnecessary moving parts. However, I am considering the locking swivel for my front passenger seat, so they can face forward, outboard (on lazy stretches), or inboard for some social interaction. Does any one have any good or bad experiences with the locking swivels? I realize I might be hijacking my own thread a little bit here.

I plan on taking a couple of runs down the Eagle River without any thru-bolts on my rowing seat or crossbar (but good tight u-bolts, Jim), and see what happens. If there is movement, then a-welding I will go. I appreciate the suggestion to tilt the seat forward slightly.

I get what you are saying on the swivel passenger seats ( I use them on every hunt), but why do you need it to lock?