The Long and Expensive March

Posted on Mar 30, 2008

AP photo / Carolyn Kaster

Hillary Clinton has promised to fight on all the way to the convention, but her campaign owes millions in unpaid bills and isn’t returning phone calls and e-mails to some small businesses in past battlegrounds. Clinton’s strategic payment of debts has helped her stay in the race, but according to The Politico, it is starting to earn her a bad reputation among vendors.

The Politico:

Show Tyme Exhibits, another Youngstown [Ohio] event production company, has produced political events for years and had never had problems getting paid before Clinton, according to owner Jim Phillips.

He said he’s still waiting for a payment for setting up the sound system and stage for Clinton’s February tour of a General Motors plant in Lordstown, Ohio.

“It was only $607, but I’m a small guy; I could use that,” said Phillips, adding, “Everyone I can tell, I do tell about it. You tell somebody something bad about somebody, they tell 10 other people.”

Both Phillips and the [event production company] Forty Two employee said they voted for Clinton in Ohio’s March 4 primary, which she won handily, but regret their votes and are reluctant to work for her campaign again.

Lib thank you for posting and responding to this. I have been posting nearly all day trying to keep up with the lies and innuendos and mistruths and half truths and rumors. I saw this earlier today but did not have to post. You are Great!!!!

Cyrena said, “You might be an independently wealthy person living in Manhattan…”

Louise added, “Hey cyrena! Maybe thats how come Manni can afford to live in Manhattan! Eh? Maybe he works for FOX fair and balanced News!”

Oops, both wrong! As noted, I am an independent minister with no other job and “no earthly means of support.” I live in Manhattan only because I have lived here my entire life and have been blessed with having inherited one of those rent-controlled apartments that are fast becoming like the woolly mammoth: extinct. I am always one month away from homelessness, and have lived that way for quite some time - quite happily, actually.

Indeed, my guess is that both of you live in much “grander” situations than I do, especially if either or both of you are married (i.e., there is a house involved and/or two incomes, etc.). I am also guessing that both of you earn more than I do and, again, substantially more if there are two incomes in your homes. I am also guessing that both of you have some kind of health benefits, which I do not.

So before you put your respective feet even further down your throats, I would reconsider some of the assumptions you make.

Don’t want to tear Hillary down BUT, your are repeating a Lie about a waitress getting stiffed. The owner said he picked it up and forgot to give it to the waitress. The waitress said she got it.
Just blog in Germany and leave us alone. ” But at least to me he doesn’t seem dirty.” Your phoniness is very very oblivious, I wonder who you are pretending to be.

“This is little more than another non-story, making a mountain out of a molehill.”

***

Oh maani, once again I’m not sure if I should collapse into uncontrolled laughter, or simply point out you are disingenuous, to say the least. Pot calling kettle black, so to speak.

With wisdom and patience, and that self-serving “peace” you offer up at the end of every post, you caution us to avoid “making a mountain out of a molehill.” Interesting how fair and balanced you are.

Then you go on to satisfy your perpetual [perhaps compulsive?] habit of posting attack Obama information. [Maani, March 31 at 1:44 pm] Telling yourself all the while you are doing us poor dummies a great favor. I suspect all those other “fair and balanced” folks over at FOX tell themselves the same thing every day!

Hey cyrena! Maybe that’s how come Manni can afford to live in Manhattan! Eh?

Maybe he works for FOX ‘fair and balanced’ News!

***

“Thus, the fact that so MANY things have come to light that question, if not completely undermine, his integrity, principle, character and judgment makes him all the MORE dirty, since he CLAIMED to be otherwise, where Hillary did not.”

***

Now that one really did pitch me into rolls of laughter!

Hillary does not claim to have integrity, principle, character and judgment so obviously she’s an OK dirty.
That clean dirt, dirty thing, right?

Maani writes:
  Obviously, she DOES pay bills, even as recently as last month 
Uh Maani,
Not to pick a bone or anything, (since I generally do just cut to the chase). But, considering what you said in this statement, isnt it THE VERY SAME THING that the article says RIGHT HERE?
  .Clintons strategic payment of debts has helped her stay in the race 
Specifically..Clintons STRATEGIC payment of debts ?
Maani,
You might be an independently wealthy person living in Manhattan, (I know I damn sure could never afford even a broom closet in Manhattan) but what this means in more down to earth language, is that Hillary is robbing from Peter to Pay Paul, or as other middle class struggling citizens have often called it in the past, playing checkers with the bills. Like maybe they sit down with the bills and the check book and do a little eenie, meenie, minie moe..which ones should we pay today?
Or, maybe they say, which ONE should I pay today? Should I buy groceries, or should I buy my life retaining medication. Should I pay the mortgage, or should I pay the light bill? What about the car? Ah, how about the health insurance? Should I pay the vendors in my life, like say the doc, the dentist, the dry cleaner, the pharmacist, the auto repair person, or you get the idea.
Now there was a time when we could probably say that this had a tendency to happen more with folks who had possibly overextended themselves. Like, they didnt plan properly for emergencies, or job losses, or the like. Or, maybe they were just indiscriminate spenders, and always put themselves into a bind by just plain poor judgment, and spending lavishly on things that they couldnt realistically afford. (kind of like whats happening to lots of people now, be it their own fault, or the forces of the gangster market and economy).

Either way, its the same thing. It comes down to playing checkers with the bills/debts, and thats what Hillary is doing. You can call it Strategic payment of debts if you want to, but what it really boils down to is that she’s building a record and a reputation for someone suffering a financial meltdown. Like, her credit rating isn’t what a pragmatic lender would consider a ‘good risk’. Not exactly that A1 stuff that my ancestors have always been so conscientious about. (my mother actually CALLS the phone, light, tax assessor if she doesn’t get her bills on the day she expects them, and then sends the check out the very same day that she does)

Nope…not me. I generally wait until a day or so before their due.

Now Hillary obviously pays enough of them to get by, while keeping the others at bay. Its not like its a new strategy.

But, I agree with Barack Obama. I think Hillary Clinton should stay in the race AS LONG AS SHE WANTS. (and as long as her creditors will allow).

Thank you for your measured tone and response. It is nice to have someone around who does not quickly give in to emotional discourse.

You say that Obama “doesn’t seem dirty.” If you are willing to educate yourself further, I will share a few items with you. And although many here accuse me of simply “smearing” Obama - with some going so far as to accuse me of hating him - I actually basically like the guy, and will support him if he becomes the nominee. Rather, as I have explained before, my “criticizing” of Obama (sometimes severely), and bringing to light things about him that the Obama supporters here either do not want to hear - or simply ignore, justify, spin, rationalize, etc. - is a matter of “leveling the playing field.”

As I have stated, I have never suggested that Hillary does not lie, triangulate, dissemble, obfuscate and spin with the best of them. But we EXPECT that of her. On the other hand, Obama began his campaign by not only claiming to be the candidate of integrity, principle, character and judgment, but one who would not engage in “politics as usual,” as that phrase is generally understood.

Thus, the fact that so MANY things have come to light that question, if not completely undermine, his “integrity,” “principle,” “character” and “judgment” makes him all the MORE “dirty,” since he CLAIMED to be otherwise, where Hillary did not.

Here are a handful of items that might interest you. Read them and make up your own mind (since I already know what some of the Obama supporters will say…LOL):

1. “Obama Knows His Way Around A Ballot”
(Chicago Tribune, April 3, 2007; reprinted March 10, 2008)

“At the end of January, Clinton owed $38,000 to ACS Sound and Lighting of Columbia, S.C. But the company was paid in full last month and is planning to do events for Clinton in other states, according to manager Troy Gwin.”

Obviously, she DOES pay bills, even as recently as last month.

“Just like with other businesses, its common for campaigns to carry unpaid bills from month to month, but in Clintons case, it also could serve a strategic purpose.”

“Could?” That’s an indictment? Au contraire! It is more like an insupportable accusation.

This is little more than another non-story, making a mountain out of a molehill. And I’m not buying it.

Second, the Clinton supporters here spin everything like it was a top.

Third, maybe some people want to hope for a change instead of having to assume that they’ll get bent over by yet another politician.

Fourth, don’t even try it. I’ve read your posts. You constantly rail against Obama. Don’t try to come off as even handed now. I’ve readily admitted to disliking everything that the Clintons are and have done since 1993. I wouldn’t vote for a Clinton for anything but president of a leper colony. (and then only because it would mean that they could never come back)

And i’ve yet to see you discuss the negatives of Clinton.

Here are my negatives for Obama: That his administration would be too much like the Clinton administration in its inability to get anything done from not being able to make decisions. That people expect too much from him, more than he can possibly deliver (but perhaps they’ll get the message that the power is really in their hands).

But i’d rather take a chance on failure with some hope that things will get better, than to know full well that they won’t. Eight years, those two threw us all under the bus…i want no more of it.

*To prove my point, just look at the spin you put on the Scaiffe issue. One minute we’re supposed to believe that Clinton will defeat these clowns and the next we’re supposed to believe that it’s the right thing to do to cuddle up to them.

Thanks Maani… I am new here and was wondering about the silliness of the pissing contest going on between some of these people; as a fan of NPR’s Left, Right, and Center which brought me to this web site. I thought the quality of debate might be equal to what I enjoy listening to each week. Yet reading the constant… “I can out insult you” crap coming from some of the people here is disheartening. The fact that “being gay” would be considered one of their insults just makes me cringe.

As for Hillary not paying these people (and other moral issues of decency…)

Didn’t I read a while back that she stiffed the waitresses in some diners in Iowa and a staffer tried to claim that “the servers must have pocketed and not shared” excuse…??? Didn’t she run ads claiming to be “the one we wanted answering the phone at 3am” only to use the ‘I was tired and I must have misspoke’ excuse about being under fire in Bosnia? Didn’t she agree to campaign rules for Florida and Michigan at the start of the race and now claims that “she won” and should be given the votes simply because she needs them?

Now we have an example of one of those every day Americans that she claims to champion but is apparently using in a calculated chess game of “stay in the race” at their expense. It is immoral and disgusting and is typical of the “I am up here, you are down there” type of politics that has permeated our country for far too long.

I like Obama… not because I dislike Hillary, but simply because I like him and his thought out reponses. Must he play the game that Washington designed in order to win…perhaps… but atleast, to me, he doesn’t seem dirty.
Hillary just seems dirty (and ready to blame others for it) and guys like Jim Phillips have to clean off the muck.

I don’t want another crap president and if she can’t handle campaign finances and responsibilities, how should she handle the economy? If she can’t handle the drain of a campaign, will she really wake up at 3am and not misspeak? If she can’t follow through on the things she agreed to months before, could anyone ever trust her?

I think not… which is disappointing because liking Obama does not mean I wanted to tear her down… there are enough of you out there who enjoy doing that enough.

We may finally be getting some where here. The strong Hillary supporters here have never claimed Hillary was perfect or has no negatives nor carries no baggage or that it will be an easy cake walk for her to defeat McCain. For a few of us she was not even our first choice for nominee.

But not so with Obama. His campaign, and most of all his supporters, present him as the antithesis and antidote to everything that is wrong in America and American politics today.

You write: “Ever notice that your defense of Sen Clinton end up being nothing more than: ‘See, look, look, Obamas no better…hes a crooked politician too…vote for my crooked politician.’”

I would not phrase it that way. They are both politicians, they both take money from lobbyists, they both want power, they both have feet of clay, and they both have negative baggage.

There is an old adage in politics: Keep your friends close. Keep your enemies even closer.

Plus I learned when I was a political action consultant/lobbyist that it was best not to burn your bridges behind you, as the person who is your opponent today on this issue can be your supporter tomorow on a different issue.

By the by, this is also called being non-partisian - something Obama says he wants. Hillary just DID IT with supreme competence.

This is the man who led - according to her - the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy designed to topple the administration and destroy her, personally. If you lie down with dogs, you’re bound to get fleas…be they from Tony Rezko or Richard Mellon Scaiffe.

And does it not disturb you even a little that the esteemed Senator from New York (D) would find so much common ground with a guy like Scaiffe?

If it doesn’t, then it doesn’t…

Landmines, cluster bombs, and illegal invasions are good. Flag burning and equal rights for gay marriage is bad. Imperial American hegemony is the number one goal.

I must be confused as to what liberal means…maybe we’ve switched to European definitions and nobody told me.

And this is evil how? She was given an invitation to interview with the editorial board of the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review newspaper. Presidential candidates do this all of the time. Obama has done them too.

It so happens that Richard Mellon Scaife was present at the boards interview. Why not? He owns the newspaper.

Hillary Clinton walked into a Pittsburgh Tribune-Review conference room last Tuesday to meet with some of the newspapers editors and reporters and declared, It was so counterintuitive, I just thought it would be fun to do.

The room erupted in laughter. Her remark defused what could have been a confrontational meeting.

More than that, it said something about the New York senator and former first lady who hopes to be Americas next president.

[ ]

The very morning that she came to the Trib, our editorial page raised questions about her campaign and criticized her on several other scores.

Reading that, a lesser politician  one less self-assured, less informed on domestic and foreign issues, less confident of her positions  might well have canceled the interview right then and there.

Sen. Clinton came to the Trib anyway and, for 90 minutes, answered questions.

Her meeting and her remarks during it changed my mind about her.

Walking into our conference room, not knowing what to expect (or even, perhaps, expecting the worst), took courage and confidence. Not many politicians have political or personal courage today, so it was refreshing to see her exhibit both.

Sen. Clinton also exhibited an impressive command of many of todays most pressing domestic and international issues. Her answers were thoughtful, well-stated, and often dead-on.

Particularly regarding foreign policy, she identified what we consider to be the most important challenges and dangers that the next president must confront and resolve in order to guarantee our nations security. Those include an increasingly hostile Russia, an increasingly powerful China and increasing instability in Pakistan and South America. 

Your point about Hillary receiving a campaign donation form Wal Mart is what?

At least Clinton doesn’t go around the country claiming she does not take donations from corporations, PACs, and lobbyists like Obama does. Hillary is honest. Obama is deceitful.

The junior Senator from Illinois denounces the corrosive influence of private political cash on U.S. democracy while cozying up to Chicagos corrupt Big Money Mayor Richard M. Daley (with whom he shares the same high-priced campaign consultant ) and raking in campaign largesse from the commanding heights of the capitalist class.

His top career sponsors include Goldman Sachs, Exelon, Soros Fund Management, J.P Morgan Chase & Co., a number of leading corporate law and lobbying firms (including Kirkland & Ellis, Skadden Arps, and Sidley Austin LLP), top Chicago investment interests (including Henry Crown & Co and Aerial Capital Management) and the like (Center for Responsive Politics 2007).

One day after Obama denounced Big Money control of U.S. politics in Iowa City, the Los Angeles Times reported that Obama raised more than $1 million in the first three months of his presidential campaign from law firms and companies that have major lobbying operations in the nations capital.

Campaign finance expert Stephen Weissman observes that this raises troubling questions about the practical relevance of Obamas much-ballyhooed pledge to turn down donations from federal lobbyists. As reporter Dan Morain explains, some of the most influential players, lawyers and consultants among them, skirt disclosure requirements by merely advising clients and associates who do actual lobbying, and avoiding regular contact with policymakers. Obamas ban does not cover such individuals (Morain 2007).

So Obama is not as pure and saintly as he tells his $5, $10, $50, and $100 donors.

Guess it was all that ‘self-esteen’ stuff in schools. For the past two decades, America’s educational establishment has stressed the inculcation of self-esteem as the supreme educational goal; as opposed to SELF RESPECT - the product of struggle and achievement - is out; self-esteem - the entitlement to feel great self-worth regardless of actual accomplishment - is in.

Guess they don’t know about bundling. Obama has gotten millions from lobbyists using this procedure.

And just to be fair, yes, so has Hillary. But she doesn’t go around the country lying that she does not take PAC and lobbist money.

Come on folks, cut the lady some flack! It’s damn hard managing millions. Or so I’ve been told.

One millionaire friend told me years ago, “Making money is easy. The hard part is avoiding greed and staying honest when it starts rolling in!”
I suppose that’s why I’ve never been a millionaire.

Naw, I’ve never been able to figure out that “easy” part.

Anyhow, I think that’s part of the problem with Hillary, possibly with most politicians. The money easily rolls in, and the pressure to win becomes greater than the pressure to keep track of the money. Kinda reverse of what most of us are going through. The money stops rolling in and the pressure to survive overcomes the need to find a way to get the money rolling again.

But all the same, put this problem next to the “misspoke” remark about being under fire in Bosnia, and the lack of foresight when it came time to give Bush permission to attack a few million innocent Iraqis, and you have to wonder ... is Hillary qualified to manage the country? Maybe this explains why she has always opted to be out and about doing good deeds. Maybe that’s actually less demanding than managing a household!

By the way. As one commander in the military put it, “Had we allowed the First Lady to come under any kind of real threat in Bosnia, our asses would have been in a sling. That never happened!”

Oh, it just occured to me! This can’t sit well with Hillary’s Mamma and Gramma base. Learning how to manage under impossible conditions is a cardinal source of pride for that group!

ANYTHING is less demanding than managing a household! Especially if you have to work to, and neither you nor your spouse [if you have one] have found that “easy” way to make money.

OK, I know ... we should all go into politics ... right?

Right ...

Another by the way. That Year of the Rat article was interesting. Had me going for a minute until I read that Hillary shares that astrological distinction with Jackson and Cheney. Near as I can see the only thing those three have in common is blind ambition. Blind to the point where the ambition hurts the ambitious.

Come to think of it ... maybe there is something to that Year of the Rat thing!
Hmmm ...

And another arrogant Obama endorser speaks. NO ONE is allowed to post but him and his Obamaholics. Aren’t you the one who made his way to the Florida Keyes where all the Alcoholics live.
You are boring and nasty and Obama deserves you.

The problem with Clintons? They are not totally incompetent, but they are solely opportunistic.

The Clinton administration (I voted for the first one)was mostly competent, which is about all that can be said about any administration. And, yes, the Republicans who love to talk about cooperation all the time they are cutting the ground out from under the nation and opposition, squandered the tax payers money against what was essentially a libral Republican Administration in Bill Clinton, all because they are a hateful party, the party of War and Greed.

Saying this why did I not vote for Bill the second time around? Why won’t I vote for Hillary this time around. To begin with Hillary Clinton has become a Lieberman Democrat, which is to say being a Democrat has nothing to do with it. She feels entitled to the candidacy and like George Bush and Lieberman doesn’t believe the voters have any say in the matter.

I would have been happier to see Edwards or Kucinich as candidates, but that is past. I remain hopeful about Obama and hope Obama is very careful in chosing a running mate. Beyond that I don’t know if anything will improve given the overwhelming importance of Corporate money for any candidate to run.

Oh, and the second Clinton Administration I didn’t vote for, because the whole business of cheap shots from the nasty Republican party could have been avoided if Bill Clinton, could have just opened his mouth and spoke the truth.

Funny, Doug, that you lumped Hillary Clinton in with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Dick Cheney…i understand that you weren’t trying to make a point, it’s just funny.

And i’m not trying to knock you for bringing up Chinese astrology…it makes more sense than Christianity.

She hasn’t been expected to do it all on her own, Doug, she had over $100M when this started. She raised $33M in February alone. And she and her husband are worth something close to $50M. Some of that money is tied up in GE funds because she never expected to have to fight for the nomination. But she hasn’t had to do it “all on her own”.

Allowing millions to be blown on a year-long campaign is simply an obscene waste of money.

And NONE of this money is either being collected, donated or expended without EVERYONE INVOLVED expecting a payoff somewhere along the line.

Campaigns should be FINANCED FROM THE PUBLIC PURSE, in LIMITED AND EQUAL AMOUNTS FOR ALL QUALIFIED CANDIDATES and should be limited to the 120 days before voting day.

This flitting about in highly lavish and expensive style just to stand before “adoring” crowds and mouth the same damn wishy-washy platitudes day in and day out is ridiculous.

There’s a thousand better uses for this money than this, for starters, you could probably fully fund health care for everyone not now covered! That seems to me to be far more important than all this high-priced bullshit clogging up our airways.

Its called the other kind of sexism. Failure to support your candidate. If they think that “oh well, there’s another Democrat still in the race”, they are betraying Hillary.

Some people who want her to be there have somehow expected her to do it ALL on her own, money included. Even the ordinary people who can only donate $10 or $50 should do so, not wait until it is too late…....

The Year of the Rat, 2008, in the Chinese Hsia (farmer’s) calendar, is symbolized by two elements – with earth sitting on top of water. According to the cycle of birth and destruction, which governs the inter-relationship between the elements, earth is the conqueror of water….. Therefore, earth sitting on water is a symbol of control. But the water of the Rat year is very strong and the earth floating on top of water has no foundation and cannot control the ocean of water.

As such, instead of conquering water, it is more like confrontation between earth and water elements. The Earth on top is Yang earth which symbolizes a mountain, and mountain gives sense of stability and firmness. But such floating earth in the ocean is weak in foundation and the stability appears to be fragile. This elemental relationship will bring a year which apparently is more stable but there are a lot of underlying tensions and confrontations.

The Chinese calendar year goes on 60-year cycle. This means that we have experienced the same year of yang earth on rat in 1948. This was a year when the confrontation between USSR and the west intensified with the Blockade of Berlin started and the formation of the Western Union by the Brussels Treaty to confront the threat of USSR; this is the predecessor to NATO. In May this year, the State of Israel was established and also the confrontation between Israel and Arabian countries began leading to the Arab-Israel war.

The Chinese character for “Yang Earth” represents a big mountain. It is associated with the quality of a firm and steady person. People born in a day of “Yang Earth” are often calm and steady and faithful, practical and “down to earth”. . Some examples of famous earth people born on a “Yang Earth” day are Hillary Clinton, Danzel Washington, David Beckham, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Michael Jackson, Dick Cheney, Eric Clapton and Ben Affleck .

The Rat belongs to the strongest water element and it is the first of the 12 animal signs. So it also represents the beginning of a new 12 years cycle. As such, the Rat year can bring a new beginning of international relationships and social order; this could bring new regimes with new government in some countries. Indeed, there will be many major elections happening between 2007 and 2008 with change of leadership in many countries including U.S.A., United Kingdom, Russia, France, Taiwan…... http://www.raymond-lo.com/ver2/index.asp

Article quote: “The New York senators presidential campaign ended February with $33 million in the bank, according to a report filed last week with the Federal Election Commission, but only $16 million of that can be spent on her battle with Obama.

The rest can be spent only in the general election, if she makes it that far, and must be returned if she doesnt. If she had paid off the $8.7 million in unpaid bills she reported as debt and had not loaned her campaign $5 million, she would have been nearly $3 million in the red at the end of February.

By contrast, if you subtract Obamas $625,000 in debts and his general-election-only money from his total cash on hand at the end of last month, hed still be left with $31 million.”

**Uh-oh… Looks like there’s trouble in paradise. Maybe that’s why the Clinton commenters are so cranky and out of sorts. They’re wondering if they’ll see a paycheck at the end of the pay period.

At a get together some years back in a state close to Arkansas Slick Willie said something to the effect “its the economy stupid”

Hillary is calling for Alan Greenspan who spent over a decade working for the privately owned Federal Reserve to act as chairman of a committee to fix the probmes that he created and now Bush wants to strengthen the the powers of the Federal Reserve.

Have these people reached the nadir of idiocy? What Americans want is a banking system under the controls of the US Department of the Treasury. Which would be under the control of the three main branches that make up the Government of the people by the people and for the people.

Some one estimated that if the Exodus from Egypt through Sinia took forty years it was due primarely to the fatc that people did not know in which direction they should be heading and further more what with all the sins enunciated in the 10 commandments taking place covering a distance of some 200 miles in 40 years must be defintive indication of much dissension long with the sin-making.

No, this sad soul will hang in there till the office is secured by McCain. Clinton like LIEberman are neither Democrat nor Republican, they’re mouthpieces for forces free of light, honor and substance.

First, Show Tyme Exhibits is given business by Clinton and all its employees voted for her.

Second, Clinton fails to pay in a timely manner, so they’re scandalizing her and regretting voting for her.

Third, phony-Hillary is in default according to the laws of capitalism, so she should be reported to all three credit companies, and the account should be given to a collection agency to try their luck.