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Hey TD Where Are the Penalties for Opening Threads About Your Opponent

Wed, 29 September 2010 22:43

Well look what my frenchie friends are writing about me. He has all this time to spend writing this but can't respond to my pm from OVER 1 day ago. I responded to his pm within 5 hours of opening it. I thought there were penalties about this kind of garbage. If you don't enforce it then anything goes.

We play together for round 2. My time zone is CEST and i can play thursday after 22h CEST or Saturday or Sunday beetwen 10h and 22h (i have some appointment but priority for play NC so i wait you're answer).

Re:Hey TD Where Are the Penalties for Opening Threads About Your Opponent

Wed, 29 September 2010 23:11

OLE Masimo wrote on Wed, 29 September 2010 17:05

well nice you show us that (and your nice scoredrop - need a check on the rules btw?) - nobody (but a few frenchies) would have noticed ...

ahhh - and also, thekid - could you please have someone translate it? My french is so weak I have no idea what they are talking about

I love you people, if I opened the thread there would be a whole flood of losers calling for me to be banned from this and all future tourneys. But when someone else does it, hey that's OK. So lawlessness reigns? No wonder there are so many cheats in this game. Too many softees here to police them.

Re:Hey TD Where Are the Penalties for Opening Threads About Your Opponent

Wed, 29 September 2010 23:29

I thought it was funny that you yourself point everyone to the fact that you downplay yourself again ... did not mean to call you - I was trying to tell you that I am sure that hardly anyone would have noticed.(I believe that >70% do not read the french forum?)

I do not understand that post and I would not have read or noticed it unless you posted it

I am not judging either post - how can I, not knowing what it is about ... my bablefish translates it into some text that I don`t even understand in german ... - but in one thing I agree with you - in case that post is offensive or insulting you it shouldn`t be tollerated ... but as I mentioned - I cannot read it.

Re:Hey TD Where Are the Penalties for Opening Threads About Your Opponent

Wed, 29 September 2010 23:39

Ok.

RFAD and the Whites players are just wondering about how they are considered by the kid...

Why is he dumping his score ?? just because they are, surprisingly to theKid, in the lead (guess it was not tk's plan) ?? Because they are French and then, without any doubt, cheaters !!?? Full of respect !

Apart from that, RFAD is asking for help to schedule his game cause both schedules are not fitting, so he needs time to figure out a solution.. He also wants to make it with a good English in case of hard negotiations with tk (especially when opponent is answering the right opposite schedule) and maybe trying to figure out a solution with the TD (in that case, Shamogi, and not Masimo, like he mentionned). Yeah RFAD has a bad English, so he needs help and ask for it ? Maybe you can do it in a perfect French for him ?

So yeah, he probably needs more than one day to answer to that.

And maybe you needed only 5 hours, but you forget the time difference. I don't know... maybe in the meanwhile he was sleeping and went at university then work (yeah, it takes tons of time, even for a Frenchie), while you were working then sleeping... And he did send a PM first...

That's all...There are other things than that to put in a garbage.

EDIT : ask someone to translate that in French (maybe me )...you will be very disappointed with the tone used..

Re:Hey TD Where Are the Penalties for Opening Threads About Your Opponent

Wed, 29 September 2010 23:50

Sysyphus - Madiran wrote on Wed, 29 September 2010 17:39

So yeah, he probably needs more than one day to answer to that.

And maybe you needed only 5 hours, but you forget the time difference. I don't know... maybe in the meanwhile he was sleeping and went at university then work (yeah, it takes tons of time, even for a Frenchie),

Does logic fail you? He posted all this garbage instead of responding. He obviously had plenty of time. Got an answer for that smartie pants? And it was the length of time from when he opened the pm, that has nothing to do with the time difference maybe you should read what is written before you comment.

Re:Hey TD Where Are the Penalties for Opening Threads About Your Opponent

Wed, 29 September 2010 23:53

Sysyphus - Madiran écrit le Wed, 29 September 2010 23:39

Apart from that, RFAD is asking for help to schedule his game cause both schedules are not fitting, so he needs time to figure out a solution.. He also wants to make it with a good English in case of hard negotiations with tk (especially when opponent is answering the right opposite schedule) and maybe trying to figure out a solution with the TD (in that case, Shamogi, and not Masimo, like he mentionned). Yeah RFAD has a bad English, so he needs help and ask for it ? Maybe you can do it in a perfect French for him ?

Just sound like everybody has only 5 hours to answer. Just explaining why it's taking almost one day... Then if he didn' answer right after reading your pm, you have the explanation above..

Re:Hey TD Where Are the Penalties for Opening Threads About Your Opponent

Thu, 30 September 2010 00:03

Sysyphus - Madiran wrote on Wed, 29 September 2010 17:53

Sysyphus - Madiran écrit le Wed, 29 September 2010 23:39

Apart from that, RFAD is asking for help to schedule his game cause both schedules are not fitting, so he needs time to figure out a solution.. He also wants to make it with a good English in case of hard negotiations with tk (especially when opponent is answering the right opposite schedule) and maybe trying to figure out a solution with the TD (in that case, Shamogi, and not Masimo, like he mentionned). Yeah RFAD has a bad English, so he needs help and ask for it ? Maybe you can do it in a perfect French for him ?

Just sound like everybody has only 5 hours to answer. Just explaining why it's taking almost one day... Then if he didn' answer right after reading your pm, you have the explanation above..

By the time he wakes up it'll be almost 2 days but if you need so much time why waste your time posting garbage about me, when that isn't allowed? You don't seem to have an answer for that. Cmon rules lawyer.

Can you send me a MP next time just before opening game "YOU win, free points". I have been a long time over 1600 and I'm now around 1550 so I'm interested.
Is it also possible to open this kind of game in "big city" and " Mega" ?

Otherwise, it seems that you are available during CEST night around 2A.M, I'm living normally in Tahiti but I'm actually in France. Is your proposal still available when I will be back in Tahiti because this hour is perfect for me.

Can you send me a MP next time just before opening game "YOU win, free points". I have been a long time over 1600 and I'm now around 1550 so I'm interested.
Is it also possible to open this kind of game in "big city" and " Mega" ?

Otherwise, it seems that you are available during CEST night around 2A.M, I'm living normally in Tahiti but I'm actually in France. Is your proposal still available when I will be back in Tahiti because this hour is perfect for me.

Greets
Doc

Hey,

I'd offer you a game anytime but you couldn't get in because you're on the ignore list. Oh why you ask? You're on there with all of the other people who play on vs. the bot. In that game I remember you telling me you were having connection problems so to wait for you if you got disconnected. Funny that you didn't do it for me. I love the ignore list, though I wouldn't have forgotten you.

16. Anti-Cheating Trust:
- Each player plays with his/her personal account. It is forbidden to have anyone else play NC games with that account. The players rating should reflect his playing strength.

I never liked this paragraph, because my rating varies significantly, due to nature of games played (multi, other maps), factors impacting concentration (time of day, workload in job, amount of alcohol ...), luck&feeling, ...
Now for the first time I understand why it's there.
Maybe it should be rephrased to "it is not allowed to dump your score intentionally"

16. Anti-Cheating Trust:
- Each player plays with his/her personal account. It is forbidden to have anyone else play NC games with that account. The players rating should reflect his playing strength.

I never liked this paragraph, because my rating varies significantly, due to nature of games played (multi, other maps), factors impacting concentration (time of day, workload in job, amount of alcohol ...), luck&feeling, ...
Now for the first time I understand why it's there.
Maybe it should be rephrased to "it is not allowed to dump your score intentionally"

Maybe they should just fix the observation status. And maybe you being a former TD and all might want to focus on that opening threads stuff, but you wouldn't want to do that cause then you'd have to agree with me and we know that can't happen.

a. I do not understand why people get upset with someone tanking or dumping their score. It seems many players work hard to arrange scores before NC, what does it matter if is before or afterward? Concern is a trust factor on who gets to have hidden cards? Be nice if DoW could get an update so whoever starts has their cards shown, then that would alternate.

b. Not sure why writings about people upset people. So there is a note in French FORUM? Big deal. (unless it is nastier than I interpret with my handy french dictionary translator.) I am trying to figure out if the point was what was written or that what was written was done in a time that seems to call into question scheduling.

c. Which takes us to what I see as a real issue which seems to be scheduling. Just what is fair to ask of people in a tournament? All are to be flexible! Must USA players always have to find time during our normal working hours to play the matches? Sure seems like it!!! Is there any wonder there is not a Canadian team anymore? But I digress. Real issue in this situation is: what has RFAD offered in terms of schedule and what was counter offers? My hope is our TD can get to the bottom of that. And that is the only one who should have to deal with the schedule concerns. It need not be done in the FORUM!

thekid is a 1500 player, he just plays swiss and big cities and stuff to get higher... (or maybe that's someone else..lol)

I think "9/30/2010 21:00 CEST..." is the same in English as it is in French as it is in German... don't think translation problems should be a big issue!

On the other hand, it is kinda a pain for US players to schedule matches with Europeans, but I bet it is also a pain to schedule a match with thekid even for another US player (though I did have a match in SPWC and didn't have a problem). It seems every Nations Cup someone has problems scheduling with thekid, but I think it has more to do with other US players just being nicer and accepting bad play times for them, whereas thekid probably doesn't.

It's not like in real life? you always need two. if one does not want, then there are problems ...

I do not see myself as an EU-TD, but as an International TD.

yes, there is a scheduling problem. This is also the reason why the lineup is already published on Friday and the players have two weekends to plan.
This tournament will only work if we all go together.

the scheduling of matches between overseas teams and EU teams has always been a problem, maybee it is true as Onyx states, that this is one of the reasons, why the Canadians dropped out.

Well the problem is that the time difference is between 6 and 8 hours. I think it is clear that the preffered playing time for most of us is in our evenings. Let me translate that into times:

for all of us - I believe - the very prefered time to play is between 20:00 and 24:00. Now at this in US/Canada time it is from 2:00/4:00 at night to 6:00/8:00 early morning in Europe!! Unless you are shift worker and used to nights up these times are impossible to play.
I agree that it is a pity that the US players can`t play at the very prefered time, but there is nobody responsible for the time difference.

To have a closer look at possible playing times I`ll put together a "timeconversion table":

red: NOGO (unless for nightowls), orange: possible, but very difficult for workers, limegreen: better time, but still difficult with a full time job, green: optimal time

as you see, there is no match of the optimal times, and our night time hits the US primetime (it is even harder to schedule PST time!)
These problems (that we had all the previous years) are the reason that we set up the schedule for the NC so that there are ALWAYS TWO! weekends included in one round, overlapping the rounds. The most reasonable times I can see in the above table are our times 18:00-24:00 (and I am sorry for you US players, that that is a good time for us, but again - it is not our fault). I am sure most of us EU players are aware of that and will try to offer you weekend games ... problem occurs if players are not able (or willing) to play during the weekend!
So all of you question yourself: if you can`t - or don`t want to play the weekend - is the NC then the right tournament for you, possibly facing an opponent from overseas?

and - btw. I regard it quite as an offence to offer a playing time which is 02:00 for your opponent!

Real issue in this situation is: what has RFAD offered in terms of schedule and what was counter offers?

Quote:

Just :

We play together for round 2. My time zone is CEST and i can play thursday after 22h CEST or Saturday or Sunday beetwen 10h and 22h (i have some appointment but priority for play NC so i wait you're answer).

Cu

Consecutive 12 hours on Saturday AND Sunday that is not enough to plan a match of Nation Cup? We wonder then who is not accommodating! (but i'm happy to see that thekid read french forum with facility )

I would like that you do your best to propose me an acceptable hour, your last proposal to play middle of night is simply not acceptable

I think in all the years I have played in tournaments, only once has a European player offered to play in their morning (i.e. before they goto work, school, etc.) which would be a pretty good time for some US players I imagine.

masimo

"So all of you [Americans] question yourself: if you can`t - or don`t want to play the weekend - is the NC then the right tournament for you, possibly facing an opponent from overseas?"

I personally cannot/will not play on weekends (but if I did I want to play at 8pm my time so 5am europe time - which won't happen)! Luckily I can play during my lunch hour during the week which is good for Europeans, but why can't the above statement read:

"So all of you (europeans) question yourself: if you can`t - or don`t want to play very early mornings- is the NC then the right tournament for you, possibly facing an opponent from America?"

It seems to me the Americans make sacrifices EVERY round to play with the European teams whereas the European teams only have to play an American team once (usually). This year 2 US teams in same group. But assume its only once.. shouldn't the European player be willing to wake up at 04:30 in the morning to play 1 round, or stay up till 02:30 at night or something like that ONCE... while the American players have to take longggggg lunches (some players are so sloww) and get in trouble for getting back to work late, or miss a class, or some how explain to their boss why they are playing a computer game during work, etc, etc.

The time difference isn't anyone's fault, I just think Europeans should be bending over backwards a little more to accomadate American players, or at least be thankful!

I stay up late, I guess I could offer 11:30 CEST Mon-Fri, and then play slow and see how that works out for the opponent.

No one should be discriminated against, whether Europeans or Americans.
but what can we do? Create rules? fixed times?
such a tournament will only work if all go together.
Each player has his own game times. It fits in 90%, in 10% we have problems ...

and what can I do as a TD? I can give players a few days more time to make an appointment to see.
i'm against to creat rules in this case.

The most important thing is to have a fair discussion to find a solution.

Drake! you bend my statement and deliberately quote me wrong - which I would misinterpret as an assault if I were someone else ...
And I am sure you understood my post but just want to put you Americans on the victim bench.

On purpose I did NOT put "Americans" in my statement about the weekends. That statement goes for EU players as well as Asian players or US players. EU players should in my opinion offer wekend games just as US players shoud.

IT IS NOT EASY TO SCEDULE GAMES WITH SUCH A TIME DIFFERENCE.

Playing at 02:30 or 04:30 with a full workday to come (where you may need to be concentrated?) is a joke Drake - even more when you compare it to your lunch break (which I really honor that a lot of you Americans play there) ((well I could imagine to get up or stay up that long on a saturday or sunday - with an easy day following ... - but again that is the weekend!))
I personally would never ask an US player to play our time 09:00 CEST!

So I repeat myself: overall the only reasonable time where noone has problems like lunch break/workhours or something like that is the weekend. Yes, I know weekends are for family ... or cycling ... or any other free time hobby - well - you need to decide what you want.
I agree that unless you play lunchbreak, for the US teams most every clash will then be a weekend clash, as the NC is EU balanced. But I see no other conveniant option - 02:30 is definitely no option (unless you are )

Hey Masimo you can wake up early or go to bed late to play a match on the weekend, I've done it but so many of the second rate players aren't willing to make that sacrifice. You don't ever see these problems with the top players. Just 2 weeks ago Schwen and I had no problems scheduling our match. I'll stay up late to play on the weekend but he has to get up a little early, he refuses. I've offered to play at 8am on the weekdays, not my preference though and i'm gonna recisnd that offer and get only my perfect time if he gets his perfect 10pm time, and that's a problem too. Europeans can't play at work but our guys can. I'm not the problem here.

Real issue in this situation is: what has RFAD offered in terms of schedule and what was counter offers?

Quote:

Just :

We play together for round 2. My time zone is CEST and i can play thursday after 22h CEST or Saturday or Sunday beetwen 10h and 22h (i have some appointment but priority for play NC so i wait you're answer).

Cu

Consecutive 12 hours on Saturday AND Sunday that is not enough to plan a match of Nation Cup? We wonder then who is not accommodating! (but i'm happy to see that thekid read french forum with facility )

I would like that you do your best to propose me an acceptable hour, your last proposal to play middle of night is simply not acceptable

I bet all of you people are nodding going yeah that kid is so unreasonable can't play within 12 consecutive hours. But this post actually proves he doesn't even know what he's talking about. HE CAN'T PLAY FOR 12 CONSECUTIVE HOURS EITHER FROM 22PM - 10AM. DUH.

And by the way you didn't have to play in the middle of the night, I gave you an 11:30pm time and 2 pm times, you forgot those. And by the way 6-7 am isn't the middle of the night, I've played then but you're too good for it? The only unaccomodating one is you.

Please Please: Let us know please when you will play (if you find an accomodation, which i really doubt hihihi). Even in the middle of the night, you may have a lot of spectators.

SHOW MUST GO ON!

thekid has proposed playing 2 games today at 22CEST (10 pm local his time and 4pm mine an awful time for me but thekid is ever the accomodating one). But he has to accomodate in return. I want to play at night 10pm would be great but 4am isn't right but there is nothing wrong with 6am, I have done it before. The fifth game if necessary could be played based on whoever goes first in game 1.

And notice who is giving here. It might only be 3 games and I'm letting him go at his time first so he might only play one at my time. And who also wouldn't want the advantage of playing first at your best time, i would, but thekid gives instead. Lets see if he'll be accomodating.

RFAD back home at 20h30 so... no problem for playing tonight but why 16h is a bad time for you ? it's worst for me to play at 6h !

If you think a plage of 12h is not enough i propose playing saturday or sunday with a start beetwen 08h and 00h CEST... i think a plage of 16h is enough, no ?

Why is 4 in the afternoon a bad time? It's working time for most of us americans, duh. Luckily I don't have to do that but I've then got 6 screaming kids and my wife home, yeah a real great time to play. I had offered you to play at 2pm your time, you ignored.

So I should play at 2am when you wouldn't? My original offers to you included that in your local time. I also gave you an 11:30pm your time start time which you conveniently ignored. So you now just try to cut off all of my evening times which isn't right. It's not accomodating.

I'll play at 4pm today and midnight friday night or saturday your am. I have given you more times to play and even gave you now 2 nightime arrangements, the first at 11:30 I would have played them all, but you ignored them. Now you need to come to my nighttime.

in my eye joe are absolutly right in his comments. The european players are to act [dumb, clumsy] it willful. They want that american players to go by himself. Many of european players are arogant to play what an american players him offers, without regard for time and family. But US-players doing everything to schedule a clash with european players example ( there are playing evening and mornings or late in the night ) only for us. I have no problem to shedule a match in league with drake before and john in NC. My question is, common what`s your problem all, we have more than one week time to shedule and i see no problem to shedule a clash.

please see it factually and nonpersonal after reading all.

Hope we all can find the middle and "RESPECTING" the others to schedule clashes.

Problem was opening a thread about someone else and tanking the score...

But as it seems, tanking his score was not allowed by the rules, and rfad's post was not offensive.
Then, kid decided to change the topic of that thread, when rfad just needed time to figure out a schedule and now offering a larger schedule and that both players will finally find an agreement. That could have been done by pm, it would have been the same, without all this whining = garbage now.

This thread was useless, and did not worth all those comments.

Some useless spicy sidenotes :

@Drake : cringe... thx for the lessons of communication, i've always enjoyed your communication in the lobby but you're still a good friend and almost a teammate lol !

And i played you at 2am and ended around 3:30am, by finding each other in the lobby, so that's probably 2 guys that helped you in the early european morning scheduling.

@Kid : Sysyphus still needs a suitcase and 100,000$ cause everybody doesn't have a life as wealthy as yours, and Sysyphus has 24 kids, probably funner and crazier than yours, a day to take care of, so welcome to my club

OK, so the fluffyheaded, dizzy American chick that plays too slowly but is otherwise pretty innocuous and fairly accommodating feels she needs to weigh in here.

I have had the very real pleasure of meeting some of you in person. Some I have not. I am an American and proud to be, but most of whom I would count as my best friends here at ttr are European, including my significant other .

Now here's the difficult part for a lot of my European (and even some American ) friends :

I like my captain. I really do But even more than that, I respect him. And if I play for America, I didn't want to play for any other captain.

Is he outspoken? Yes.

Controversial? Usually.

A part-Italian, New Jersey hothead? I'm not sure, but I think so .

Do I always agree with his methods? No. But more often than not, his logic, game strategy, knowledge of the rules, and captaining ability are sound.

I also know he's honest, a straight shooter, stands up for his team (and himself), he's a killer blocker and damn good TTR player. He's also a devoted father and husband, and has a mushy marshmallow center like most grown men do, despite their chest beating, posturing, and trash talking to each other.

I also can't blame him if he never plays another NC when I see the way he's treated here sometimes. Why bother? I know I couldn't do it. It was all we could do to get him to play THIS year, because even with all that yummy tK "swaggah" , he's about had it with the (let's admit it) "the kid is a rude boy and we don't like him generally, so we're not going to do anything to make this easier and we might even propose games that score points for every time you can get he-who-shall-not-be-named to post an angry, preposterous post in the forums" attitude that some have. (OK, so I was so often asked if I had see the White Forum in the lobby yesterday, that I finally went by to see what all the huff-and-puff was about. Please excuse me if my google translator failed me )

Bottom line. If theKid had not captained this year, I would not have played. Then likely no theTeam in NC. But hey, one less team with scheduling difficulties to worry about, right? One step closer to an all Euro "Nation's Cup". If that's what's wanted. Fine. Otherwise, we all put up with scheduling headaches and we try not to single out people we don't like for our collective frustrations about it.

Can't we all just get along? (pthhhhhh, bleh, I hate pithy, stupid clichés) And get this clash played? I love watching these NC clashes. But if we waste all this time posturing and posting, it just doesn't get done.

But as it seems, tanking his score was not allowed by the rules, and rfad's post was not offensive.

Wrong on both counts. The wording of the rules prevents other people from playing your account, or using a second account. NEITHER of these things I DO, BUT A LOT OF YOU DO. I can do whatever I want with my rating, if I went out and played 100 mega 5 players whats you to do to stop me. My rating would probably be in the 1400's then. You can't change the wording to whatever dea would like it to be.

The problem is someone opened a thread about their opponent, which they aren't allowed to do, and DOW hasn't fixed the observation problem. And by the way I had asked a question before the NC started about the observe function on hidden tix games cause I had some people play some and in some games I saw tix kept, but in others I only saw the discarded ticket. I asked if anyone knew why and got ZERO responses. Nobody seems to care until I'm the lower ranked. Really interesting in my eyes. If ANYONE thinks I'd cheat please have the GUTS to post it right HERE. And if HE thinks I will, come on out and lets play the games closed. Because I WILL block, I'll catch some and miss others but when I hit there WILL BE no second guessing, cause I haven't, wouldn't and will not ever cheat.

And by the way no one has responded so I don't know about the games at 4.