Despite valiant efforts to push its Windows licensees to adopt Vista and the forthcoming Windows 7, Microsoft has one again agreed to extend the option of selling Windows XP for use on new PCs for another year, through April 30, 2010.

The announcement hasn't been made publicly, but AppleInsider can exclusively report that according to a source within Hewlett Packard, Microsoft has granted the PC giant an extension to its existing rights to continue selling the nearly eight year old Windows XP on the company's business desktops, workstations, and notebooks in place of Windows 7 for another year.

Microsoft isn't excited about the XP extension, as the internal communique provided by the source stated, "Its important to remind customers that Microsoft are still planning to retire XP Pro Mainstream support on April 14th 2009 and will only provide OS security updates beyond that date unless the customer has an Extended Hotfix Support contract. MS Extended Support for XP Pro ends on April 8th 2014."

Out with the new, in with the old

Microsoft only allows Windows XP Pro or Windows XP Tablet to be bundled with new PCs as restore media, which the company refers to as an "XP downgrade." This enables the company to claim having sold a Windows Vista license for all new shipping PCs; it continues to insist that PC makers ship their machines with Vista pre-installed.

However, many PC makers prominently feature the "XP downgrade" as a feature of their new machines, although many will apparently will lose the ability to continue offering an alternative to Vista when their XP downgrade rights expire on July 31, unless they are also able to match the deal HP brokered with Microsoft.

Additionally, corporate PC customers frequently image all the computers they buy with a standardized, site licensed version of Windows customized for their needs. For many companies, this continues to be built upon Windows XP. Microsoft is particularly interested in moving these customers to Vista and its successor, Windows 7, despite their resistance to make the transition.

Windows 7 downgrade to "allow headroom"

Microsoft has billed Windows 7 as a completely new operating system, but company executives also admit publicly that the release is really a relatively minor update to Windows Vista.

That means that many of the reasons customers have for not migrating to Vista will also be reasons for not wanting to shift to Windows 7, making the availability of an "XP downgrade" an important factor to vendors selling Windows PCs.

In mid February, Computerworld cited Michael Silver, an analyst with Gartner, as saying, "Downgrade rights are hugely important for Windows 7. Will Microsoft offer downgrades [from Windows 7] to XP? They've not answered that question yet. But it's really important."

HP's internal communique answers that question in the affirmative, at least for the company's business customers. "Microsoft will allow PC OEMs to structure similar downgrade OS SKUs for Win 7 Professional once available. No formal announcement has been made on the General Availability date for Win 7. However, you can anticipate that business desktops, notebooks and workstations will take advantage of this with the release of Win 7 in the October timeframe to allow our customers maximum headroom as they transition away from XP Pro OS. The Win 7 Professional to XP Pro downgrade OS will also discontinue on April 30th 2010."

XP rights for home users and netbooks still uncertain

Whether Microsoft will allow home users and other licensees apart from HP the right to sell new PCs with the bundled restore media to install a pre-Vista version of Windows still remains to be seen. If Microsoft does not, it may face pressure from PC makers and even push them to begin shipping Ubuntu or their own customized edition of Linux on new PCs, as Acer, Dell, HP, and others have already begun doing in the netbook market.

The inability of Windows Vista to run on netbooks forced Microsoft to offer very low cost licenses for Windows XP to kill off the threat of Linux finding a foothold on low cost hardware. Microsoft has promised that forthcoming versions of Windows 7 would run acceptably on netbooks, but has yet to offer full specifics of how, or how much those netbook licenses would cost.

Ubuntu CEO Mark Shuttleworth welcomed the prospect of a level playing field in the netbook market, stating in an interview that "a decent edition of Windows [7] will mean Microsoft finally has to charge full price and that Redmond will finally stop allowing OEMs to use low-cost copies of Windows XP instead of paying full price for the full version of the official flagship - Windows Vista."

What's the relevance to Apple with this story? I don't understand other than to rile up the "base."

That being said, this is a stupid move by Microsoft. I could understand with Vista given how much of a bad rep it got (some of it deserved, some of it not). But Windows 7 is so good in my testing (on netbooks and notebooks) that prolonging XP's life just isn't worth it anymore. I mean, sheesh, the OS is 8 years old.

Actually it is relevant, it is about the competition and we can discuss just like we discuss those useless ads Microsoft releases.

Even Apple's half-truth Mac vs PC ads or MS' "are they real people or actors buying PCs" ads talked about the competition. There are things in both companies ads I can agree/disagree with, as I have both platforms.

But this has zero to do with Apple. This is MS allowing HP to continue to offer an XP downgrade option for Win7 PCs (which I can't simply understand, unless it is for very old SW), as Win7 is much faster than Vista, and about on par, or faster than XP in my experience, even in beta.

As long as XP continues to thrive malware makers have a sure way to propagate their crud. I work at a company of 30K + employees and got a trojan that destroyed my system a few weeks ago. I called our helpdesk to reimage my laptop as no personal files were kept there. The lead helpdesk tech told me he had the same trojan.

McAfee and 4 other anti-malware apps couldn't completely clean my system with McAfee being the worst and that is our corporate standard.

Guess where I got the Trojan? AppleInsider.com. My PC with XP got infected in a heartbeat and when I came home and went to AppleInsider.com on my MacBook Safari warned me of the malware on the site. I no longer visit AppleInsider.com on my PC. Why can Safari detect malware on a site and IE 7 cannot? Google maybe?

Of all the operating systems that need a browser to be able to warn of malware you would believe Microsoft would be licensing whatever tech to get this done.

Move on already! Vista had problems. Windows 7 is optimized like Snow Leopard will be to Leopard. Microsoft need to stand up and demand for the good of the internet and corporation that XP is not for sale. What will corporations do then? They buy Vista and Windows 7 and actually use the products.

Even Apple's half-truth Mac vs PC ads or MS' "are they real people or actors buying PCs" ads talked about the competition. There are things in both companies ads I can agree/disagree with, as I have both platforms.

But this has zero to do with Apple. This is MS allowing HP to continue to offer an XP downgrade option for Win7 PCs (which I can't simply understand, unless it is for very old SW), as Win7 is much faster than Vista, and about on par, or faster than XP in my experience, even in beta.

If you don't think that the troubles of Vista had a lot to do with the Mac's success over the last few years, then you need to go out more.

A more accepted MS OS automatically means less Mac sales. Anything to do with MS has a lot to do with Apple (unless Apple = iphone for you).

Finally, what matters is that this is interesting to the Apple user base. Thats all thats relevant. Next you will be complaining that the NYTimes should not be posting articles about China's growth because they aren't about New York.

Anyways, the title of this article was pretty clear. If you aren't interested in it, dont click on it.

Finally, while Win 7 may be faster, if it retains Vista's usability issues, it wont be as successful as XP. Also, most corporates can't move from XP because their in-house software is tied down to it. That is why MS needs to allow the "downgrade".

Even Apple's half-truth Mac vs PC ads or MS' "are they real people or actors buying PCs" ads talked about the competition. There are things in both companies ads I can agree/disagree with, as I have both platforms.

But this has zero to do with Apple. This is MS allowing HP to continue to offer an XP downgrade option for Win7 PCs (which I can't simply understand, unless it is for very old SW), as Win7 is much faster than Vista, and about on par, or faster than XP in my experience, even in beta.

Actually what happens in the windows side does affect appl. You can't say that a company that has 90% marketplace share has no relevance over the other 10%. Just as whatever apple does with the iPod, iPhone, and iTunes affects windows users. Many an apple user uses boot camp and most use windows xp. I look at this as good news. People can still go out and get windows xp and know that it will still be used for the forseeable future.

This has always been part if the problem with microsoft. They have a dominant share of the business community but businesses don't like to upgrade. Something tells me that during this economic downturn that xp will be supported even after 2010. Businesses are not going to want spend money it takes. Microsoft is going to have to wait until the economy recovers and then stop support for xp.

Because of this support for legacy software and marketshare, windows is going to continue to have security issues.

The longer it takes MSFT to deliver a truly world class OS, the better it is for Apple.

XP Pro/SP2 is preferred by thousands of corporate IT departments. Why? Because it's stable, takes 2GB on disk and, however inelegant it may be, it works. Longhorn would have been terrific, but MSFT never delivered it: not in Vista (of any flavor), not in Vista SP1, and not in Win7. Maybe Windows users will see MSFT deliver on the promise of Longhorn in Windows 7's successor in, what, 2011 -- when XP will be a decade old!?!

I have struggled with Vista Ultimate since I first implemented it in Fusion (the first public beta) in early 2007. It is better now with SP1, but better is a relative term. Month after month, once or twice a month, I would get 50 - 200MB or more of miscellaneous security patches, bug fixes, stability enhancements, etc. It's lovely to consider that this "improved OS" is 5X bigger (10GB on disk) and slower in every respect, including boot time, than XP.

Ballmer is correct: Win7 IS the Vista architecture; the casual user will I suspect be impressed with the GUI and speed enhancements, but it's the same size (10GB on disk), it's still bloated, and it's still inefficiently written -- with the same core structure as Vista. I have not tested Snow Leopard, but I suspect that the commenter who compares it to the Win7 public beta will be proved wrong. I will use Win7 for my next VM, but will regret that MSFT remains true to its reputation: an aggressive, sometime monopolist with adequate but not brilliant software that seems to take longer and longer to deliver the next generation of its OS and productivity apps.

Sheesh. Windows XP was released in 2001 and they haven't been able to progress properly (putting it mildly). With all their billions, they should do the right thing - but NOOOOOOO because Microsoft just doesn't "get it".

what a waste of time and money form microsoft. no wonder there is the economic crisis. its like pushing the continued use of the abacus long after the invention of the electronic calculator.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AppleInsider

Despite valiant efforts to push its Windows licensees to adopt Vista and the forthcoming Windows 7, Microsoft has one again agreed to extend the option of selling Windows XP for use on new PCs for another year, through April 30, 2010.

The announcement hasn't been made publicly, but AppleInsider can exclusively report that according to a source within Hewlett Packard, Microsoft has granted the PC giant an extension to its existing rights to continue selling the nearly eight year old Windows XP on the company's business desktops, workstations, and notebooks in place of Windows 7 for another year.

Microsoft isn't excited about the XP extension, as the internal communique provided by the source stated, "Its important to remind customers that Microsoft are still planning to retire XP Pro Mainstream support on April 14th 2009 and will only provide OS security updates beyond that date unless the customer has an Extended Hotfix Support contract. MS Extended Support for XP Pro ends on April 8th 2014."

Out with the new, in with the old

Microsoft only allows Windows XP Pro or Windows XP Tablet to be bundled with new PCs as restore media, which the company refers to as an "XP downgrade." This enables the company to claim having sold a Windows Vista license for all new shipping PCs; it continues to insist that PC makers ship their machines with Vista pre-installed.

However, many PC makers prominently feature the "XP downgrade" as a feature of their new machines, although many will apparently will lose the ability to continue offering an alternative to Vista when their XP downgrade rights expire on July 31, unless they are also able to match the deal HP brokered with Microsoft.

Additionally, corporate PC customers frequently image all the computers they buy with a standardized, site licensed version of Windows customized for their needs. For many companies, this continues to be built upon Windows XP. Microsoft is particularly interested in moving these customers to Vista and its successor, Windows 7, despite their resistance to make the transition.

Windows 7 downgrade to "allow headroom"

Microsoft has billed Windows 7 as a completely new operating system, but company executives also admit publicly that the release is really a relatively minor update to Windows Vista.

That means that many of the reasons customers have for not migrating to Vista will also be reasons for not wanting to shift to Windows 7, making the availability of an "XP downgrade" an important factor to vendors selling Windows PCs.

In mid February, Computerworld cited Michael Silver, an analyst with Gartner, as saying, "Downgrade rights are hugely important for Windows 7. Will Microsoft offer downgrades [from Windows 7] to XP? They've not answered that question yet. But it's really important."

HP's internal communique answers that question in the affirmative, at least for the company's business customers. "Microsoft will allow PC OEMs to structure similar downgrade OS SKUs for Win 7 Professional once available. No formal announcement has been made on the General Availability date for Win 7. However, you can anticipate that business desktops, notebooks and workstations will take advantage of this with the release of Win 7 in the October timeframe to allow our customers maximum headroom as they transition away from XP Pro OS. The Win 7 Professional to XP Pro downgrade OS will also discontinue on April 30th 2010."

XP rights for home users and netbooks still uncertain

Whether Microsoft will allow home users and other licensees apart from HP the right to sell new PCs with the bundled restore media to install a pre-Vista version of Windows still remains to be seen. If Microsoft does not, it may face pressure from PC makers and even push them to begin shipping Ubuntu or their own customized edition of Linux on new PCs, as Acer, Dell, HP, and others have already begun doing in the netbook market.

The inability of Windows Vista to run on netbooks forced Microsoft to offer very low cost licenses for Windows XP to kill off the threat of Linux finding a foothold on low cost hardware. Microsoft has promised that forthcoming versions of Windows 7 would run acceptably on netbooks, but has yet to offer full specifics of how, or how much those netbook licenses would cost.

Ubuntu CEO Mark Shuttleworth welcomed the prospect of a level playing field in the netbook market, stating in an interview that "a decent edition of Windows [7] will mean Microsoft finally has to charge full price and that Redmond will finally stop allowing OEMs to use low-cost copies of Windows XP instead of paying full price for the full version of the official flagship - Windows Vista."

the company is setting itself up, or more accurately, is already dying a slow painful death due to its own incompetence. I installed and tested 'Windows 7'..... and guess what... the emperor has no clothes!

W7 is basically exactly the same as Vista, same look and feel, same UI, maybe there are tweaks under the hood. but at best W7 is like Vista with a service pack 2.

Balmer is a total idiot, who like the captain of the titanic, will go under with his ship.

PS: has anybody else besides me noticed that MS advertising over the last 20 years is the worst? have you seen their moronic 'sufing ceo' ad on msnbc? ms ads are just totally lame, not funny, not witty, not cutting edge, not even visually appealing, nada

As long as XP continues to thrive malware makers have a sure way to propagate their crud. I work at a company of 30K + employees and got a trojan that destroyed my system a few weeks ago. I called our helpdesk to reimage my laptop as no personal files were kept there. The lead helpdesk tech told me he had the same trojan.

McAfee and 4 other anti-malware apps couldn't completely clean my system with McAfee being the worst and that is our corporate standard.

Guess where I got the Trojan? AppleInsider.com. My PC with XP got infected in a heartbeat and when I came home and went to AppleInsider.com on my MacBook Safari warned me of the malware on the site. I no longer visit AppleInsider.com on my PC. Why can Safari detect malware on a site and IE 7 cannot? Google maybe?

Of all the operating systems that need a browser to be able to warn of malware you would believe Microsoft would be licensing whatever tech to get this done.

Move on already! Vista had problems. Windows 7 is optimized like Snow Leopard will be to Leopard. Microsoft need to stand up and demand for the good of the internet and corporation that XP is not for sale. What will corporations do then? They buy Vista and Windows 7 and actually use the products.

Perhaps Microsoft can spin this point of fact in their next Random Computer Shopper ad. As is so often the case with Microsoft, the bug can be transformed into a feature.
In some future ad a technically savvy buyer, like Giampaolo, can cite the ability to downgrade the OS as a reason to buy a boat-anchor of a Windows laptop over the otherwise sexy Apple laptop!

That means that many of the reasons customers have for not migrating to Vista will also be reasons for not wanting to shift to Windows 7, making the availability of an "XP downgrade" an important factor to vendors selling Windows PCs.

That doesn't make sense you sad sod performance issues is Vista's problem, if Windows 7 improves greatly on that then how did you come about with the second quote???? jack of all asses \

I almost would. I use XP at work and every day curse it because it's slow, annoying and obviously not made for modern computers. I mean its default window size is even a puny 640x480. I have had a much more pleasant experience running Vista and even more so with Win7.

Microsoft should try cramming Win7 down people's throats as much as they can. It's the first MS operating system that has really impressed me. I've actually started to prefer it over OSX. I see no valid reason to use XP or Vista over Win7.

MS doesn't get it. A "new" OS that is just like the old one. Dealing with activation/authentication, same issues with drivers, etc.

As an OS X user, I love that there isn't activation. Every time I have to wipe my PC, I have to call MS, convince the person I am who I say I am and 20 reasons why I should be able to install my $199 software back onto the same computer I've always had it on. It's frustrating. I think about the day that MS might not be around and my $199 software becomes a drink coaster CD.

Steve Ballmer really put the proverbial shoe in his mouth regarding how much like Vista that Win7 will be. With the PR and Techie nightmare Vista has been, I would have stayed away from it like the plague and made all of the marketing and layout of Win7 look nothing like Vista.

MS doesn't get it. A "new" OS that is just like the old one. Dealing with activation/authentication, same issues with drivers, etc.

It's quite a bit better than the old one, but it does look the same for the most part. However, when a product fails you have to rebrand it if you want to sell it again so renaming it was a smart move on MS' part.

Quote:

As an OS X user, I love that there isn't activation.

Since you buy OS X with each Mac and the SW uses EFI, not BIOS, Apple currently has that luxury. Of all of MS' faults this is one that they have no choice over. Even Apple has a validation code for iWork and QT Pro, OS X Server and their pro apps.

Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"

Given that securing a computer's resources is one of the core functions of an OS, I assume that Windows 7 will finally end the need for anti-virus, which has been something unique to Windows for years.

Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

Given that securing a computer's resources is one of the core functions of an OS, I assume that Windows 7 will finally end the need for anti-virus, which has been something unique to Windows for years.

Typical Apple drone, predictable as ever. I made sense and you as usual when sense is made, speak allot of crap. We both know the post writer quotes made no sense whatsoever yet you chose to defend nonsense instead This proves why Apple fannies go out and buy the latest Apple minor upgrade products for $2000

As an OS X user, I love that there isn't activation. Every time I have to wipe my PC, I have to call MS, convince the person I am who I say I am and 20 reasons why I should be able to install my $199 software back onto the same computer I've always had it on. It's frustrating. I think about the day that MS might not be around and my $199 software becomes a drink coaster CD.

Quote:

Originally Posted by solipsism

Even Apple has a validation code for iWork and QT Pro, OS X Server and their pro apps.

Validation codes are fine, that's not the same as "activation". Validation codes exist to prevent trivial widespread piracy with virtually no bother to the user. And you can walk into a store, pay cash for a piece of software, and go home and install it without being traced, tracked, monitored or marketed to. Activation is evil.

The last version of Photoshop I bought (and probably will EVER buy) was CS2. After that they require activation. And I never run Windows XP or newer except from within a VMWare shell where I am (almost) entirely in control the outbound communication.

suspect that the prolonged existance of XP will be an issue for sw developers. After all XP is 32bit as far as I know.And writing a sw Win7 and XP will ne really time consuming.Developers will have to choose, if XP stays as successfull, whether to take full advantage of Win7 or create an identical sw for XP, maybe avoiding some specific Win7 possibilities.

If I buy 64bit hw and run a 32bit OS on it, can I take full advantage of 64bit apps?I don't know.
Forcing developers to write for a new os and, at the same time for a 10 year old one will be expensive and time consuming.It will make the transition for MS to a fully 64bit system a lot slower.I bet Ms's strategy is,similar to Apple, to convince private users to adopt the OS and subsequently companies.
But MS itself will have to write the next version or Office for both Xp and Win7..Since they are still officially supporting it..