I might be able to apply a traction splint because I took a class on it as well as did it 100X in practicals. However, when you are applying a traction splint in real life because someone has fracture a femur, that splint and that femur is attached to someone that has opinions, ideas, dreams, and more than likely will be different then your own. Your success on that call will not just be measured on your traction splinting technique but in how you dealt with that person. My suggestion to you is for you to get out of the classroom occasionally and learn some of these life lessons.

Yes, high your the person that called us for heart attack right? Okeee dokee then,well since its friday I think where going to let our explorer use the aed and pump adrenilen.....gotta learn sometime you know!

Re: Ride-outs

Originally posted by FirefighterGW
42VTExplorer, I am sure you have great intentions. I also find comfort in your passion for your ideas. That is certainly a positive trait. However, I would suggest that for the sake of your future career, happiness, and for the sake of truly making a difference in other people's lives, you adopt the following:

1. You are not always right.

Re-read what I said, no where in there did I say I was always right. I agree to disagree, and that I believe in the way that I like to do things, but I never said there was "right or wrong".

2. The people that you work with should be more important to you then you are.

WHOA NOW. You're digging into things here that aren't mentioned ANYWHERE in this. I never said ANYTHING about being "higher" or "better" then anyone.

3. Never build yourself up by tearing other people down.

You point that at me, how about what other people are saying? That I should be ashamed of myself because of my belifes? I think this comment should be pointed at THEM for being the ones to start the personal attacks.

4. Your ultimate contribution will not be measured by what you think you gave but what others feel you gave.

Where is this coming into play? We all contributed our opinions, knowledge, and feelings on this subject, and you're the one trying to take this out of context.

5. Be the type of person that doesn't have to argue your case because other people have so much trust and respect for you that they argue your case for you.

I argue my case because it's idfferent from what other people present. I want to be able to show my side of the story, when they show theirs. I have every right to do this also.

However, when you are applying a traction splint in real life because someone has fracture a femur, that splint and that femur is attached to someone that has opinions, ideas, dreams, and more than likely will be different then your own. Your success on that call will not just be measured on your traction splinting technique but in how you dealt with that person. My suggestion to you is for you to get out of the classroom occasionally and learn some of these life lessons.

I never said I stay in the classroom. Reread everything I said before this post. You're trying to tell me how to change my life, so that I can see it "your way", or the way you think I should.

What ever happened to this next quote?

1. You are not always right.

Maybe the way I view things is "right" to me, but not to you. Like I've said before, let's agree to disagree. I think that will have to be the common ground for now.

I assumed that since you were a junior firefighter/first responder, that you were probably somewhere in your teens or possibly your early 20's. Since I am a 36 year old career firefighter and Explorer Advisor, I thought that I had both the experience and the knowledge to HELP you. The point in my post was not to belittle you. My explorers look to me to provide guidance to them since I am older and do have the experience in areas that they are only beginning to learn about. I assumed that you would appreciate my comments and find them both informative and helpful.

However, since you made a point to comment on every single one of my "life lessons" and argue with me just as you have many others in this forum, I now realize that I was wrong. I was wrong to give you as much credit as I initially did. Not only are you young but you are immature for your age. While most junior firefighters are trying to absorb information from more experienced firefighters, like sponges, you are arrogantly arguing with the people that are trying to give you insights. It seems to me that you are one of those that study, study, study, and study books and work hard in the classroom not for information that YOU can use but so that you can tell everyone how smart you are.

Thank you for providing your name in the post. I can tell you that we would not be interested in hiring you at our department.

I could not of said it better. Well put glen.
Also Something that I should of posted about 10miles back in this thread. If your post does not have riding as part of your program or you dont believe in it. Dont belittle those that do and those that believe that it works, because if they have it in their program and it has been in place for more than a year, it works. And if you have a problem with that you can just call up the advisor of the explorer post or the deptartment chief that you dont agree with and try your case with them.

I'd first like to point out the glaring grammatical and spelling errors in this quoted post. I'd also like to include the one before. I think you both might need some more time in an English classroom. Some spelling and grammar improvements will help you.

And using the line about grammer over and over, that is just stupid. I admit that when I am typing and I get into a subject that I am passionate about I make errors. But belittling people because of their grammar is just not your job. Who gave you the right to judge others based on their grammar? I just hate it when peoples only response is grammar errors.

Hmmm, dunno chris. I think after re-reading both GW's posts, he is trying to stare you in the right direction. Steamer once tried to do the same for me and I didnt take the hint. If you got someone that is willing to share advice and life lessons you wont learn in a book----latch on and listen.

I have been a junior in my voulenteer department for...about a week now. This is something ive been waiting a very long time for, and something Im very happy that I am involved in.

VT Explorer, I have NEVER stepped NEAR a classroom. Nor have the vast majority of the other cadets in my Dept. 2 days after I joined, I was riding the truck to a call. All I really needed to know was how to put my seat belt on. Theres more then enough people willing to go out of their way to teach you things and help you out.

Since I dont know much right now, I stay with the driver, or another Firefighter. They tell me whats going on, what the people are doing, so on and so forth. I go up to the station every chance I get with another firefighter. I almost know how to use SCBA now, just from people helping me to put it on, show me how it works ect.

Ive never stepped foot in a classroom for firefighting. At some point im sure I will, but ive have already learned quite a bit just from going to calls in my first week. I cant do much, but the more I learn, and the more I see, the more ill be able to do.

As for worrying about my saftey on a call, its part of the job. We are not allowed to go to haz-mat calls, but we usually dont find out if it is a hazardous situation or not untill we get there. A month or so ago, a call came in as "A smell of gas." About 2 or 3 cadets went, only to find it was a 500 gallon underground propane tank with a big crack in it leaking propane everywhere. They stayed towards the back of the scene, and helped there.

I agree we both have the rights to our oponions, but I think that riding the trucks to calls, DEFINATLY equals learning.

FirefighterGW, I must appologize. I took your post out of context, and misinterpreted what you were trying to show me. I got the wrong impression from what you were saying, and probably should have re-read it a few more times before sending off a hot-headed reply.

Glen, I am sorry. Like I said above, I saw it out of context, and not what it really was supposed to be.

If your post does not have riding as part of your program or you dont believe in it. Dont belittle those that do and those that believe that it works, because if they have it in their program and it has been in place for more than a year, it works. And if you have a problem with that you can just call up the advisor of the explorer post or the deptartment chief that you dont agree with and try your case with them.

Mikey, we do have the ability to ride, and we take advantage of it. I do believe in riding, just not as a primary source of training or learning.

I have been a junior in my voulenteer department for...about a week now. This is something ive been waiting a very long time for, and something Im very happy that I am involved in.

First off, CONGRATS! Alwasy good to see new people getting involved.

VT Explorer, I have NEVER stepped NEAR a classroom. Nor have the vast majority of the other cadets in my Dept. 2 days after I joined, I was riding the truck to a call. All I really needed to know was how to put my seat belt on. Theres more then enough people willing to go out of their way to teach you things and help you out.

I can't change the way other d epartments do their training, or force my beliefs on other "Junior" programs. Knowing how to put your seatbelt on, isn't all you need to know. It seems a little sketchy to be putting a "2 day old" on a truck and allowing them to go to calls.

Since I dont know much right now, I stay with the driver, or another Firefighter. They tell me whats going on, what the people are doing, so on and so forth. I go up to the station every chance I get with another firefighter. I almost know how to use SCBA now, just from people helping me to put it on, show me how it works ect.

Alright, you know how to use BA, but do you know what a PPV is? If you were asked to pull the Positive Pressure Fan of the apparatus, could you get it?

You may want to check this thread out...If you have only learned to use BA, then you've gotten off pretty lucky. Many other department's members that have posted in there have all discussed the levels of training needed before riding.

Ive never stepped foot in a classroom for firefighting. At some point im sure I will, but ive have already learned quite a bit just from going to calls in my first week. I cant do much, but the more I learn, and the more I see, the more ill be able to do.

But will you understand why you do it? Will you understand the principles behind it?

As for worrying about my saftey on a call, its part of the job.

NO. Cadets, Juniors, Explorers, should NOT but in an IDLH environment, or in a place where their safety is at risk. Obviously some risks are going to have to be taken, like if you are riding on apparatus to calls. But you should never be in an IDLH or unsafe environment.

We are not allowed to go to haz-mat calls, but we usually dont find out if it is a hazardous situation or not untill we get there. A month or so ago, a call came in as "A smell of gas." About 2 or 3 cadets went, only to find it was a 500 gallon underground propane tank with a big crack in it leaking propane everywhere. They stayed towards the back of the scene, and helped there.

You may want to take a look at the link I've added below. It's from the ERG, and will offer some interesting information about propane.

I didnt go to the propane call, as I was not a member of the department at the time. Had anyone known the severity of the situation, I assure you cadets would not have been permitted to go.

As for riding to a call 2 days after, I was very sketchy at first also. The night I got my gear, I was told next time there was a call I could go. I said, I think ill wait a month or so, go to some drills first and get to know the basics. I was afraid I would be asked to go grab something off a truck I didnt know, or do a task I didnt know how to accomplish. But it was nothing like that, I was told to "dive right in" and start. Because the sooner I started doing things, the sooner I would start to learn them.

This also isnt to say we never have classroom time. The cadets dont do special drills however, only for the annual cadet challenge. I drill with the normal members of the department of my assigned firehouse, as do the other 20 or so cadets.

It was foolish of me to say my personal saftey is not a factor, as it is a very large one. What I was trying to say is, whenever you go to a call, you are always going to be near a dangerous situation. Theres no avoiding it, but the more experience you have, wether it be classroom or first hand experience. I learn by doing, ive always been that way.

There's a difference between being in that dangerious situation (albeit the IDLH environment), and near it.

"Juniors" in general should not be put in a place where their safety is greatly compromised.

I applaud you for wanting to learn, and being a little resistant of wanting to be on the truck right away. You may want to consider auditing a Firefighting I class along with some EMS classes if you will be going on medicals. You may not be old enough to get certifications from some of these classes, but getting the general knowledge and the hearing about the different experiences of the people in class is always a plus.

firekid1234 I have been a junior in my voulenteer department for...about a week now. This is something ive been waiting a very long time for, and something Im very happy that I am involved in.

VT Explorer, I have NEVER stepped NEAR a classroom. Nor have the vast majority of the other cadets in my Dept. 2 days after I joined, I was riding the truck to a call. All I really needed to know was how to put my seat belt on. Theres more then enough people willing to go out of their way to teach you things and help you out.

Since I dont know much right now, I stay with the driver, or another Firefighter. They tell me whats going on, what the people are doing, so on and so forth. I go up to the station every chance I get with another firefighter. I almost know how to use SCBA now, just from people helping me to put it on, show me how it works ect.

Ive never stepped foot in a classroom for firefighting. At some point im sure I will, but ive have already learned quite a bit just from going to calls in my first week. I cant do much, but the more I learn, and the more I see, the more ill be able to do.

As for worrying about my saftey on a call, its part of the job. We are not allowed to go to haz-mat calls, but we usually dont find out if it is a hazardous situation or not untill we get there. A month or so ago, a call came in as "A smell of gas." About 2 or 3 cadets went, only to find it was a 500 gallon underground propane tank with a big crack in it leaking propane everywhere. They stayed towards the back of the scene, and helped there.

I agree we both have the rights to our oponions, but I think that riding the trucks to calls, DEFINATLY equals learning.

I would like to start by welcoming you to the fire service. But, I wouuld have to say some things about what you have said. (Not to back up 42VTExplorer or anyone else here.)

In my post we are required to attend class before we even think about helping the firefighters in any way shape or form. We learn Command Structure, types of Trucks, Truck Inventory, etc. If you ride laong on a call after being an explorer for 2 days and what if a firefighter comes out of a fire and asks for the irons, a 2 1/2 inch or any other equipment carried on the fire apparatus. As explorers we are on a scene to help the firefighters by retrieving equipment, rehab, filling SCBA's, etc. If you dont understand what the firefighters are saying youre not helping them and only getting them frustrated. I like the idea of helping at the scene, but if you're "extremely new" such as yourself, I think it would be a good idea for you to go, but you should be a spectator watching the operations and how a scene goes. In my post, you arent even put on the call up roster or get a uniform until you have been on for 90 days. All explorers in my post are HAZMAT Awareness trained, some of us have taken it farther(HAZMAT Ops classes, tanker fires, and pipeline emergencies awareness) but we will NEVER be called upon to help at a HAZMAT incident. SCBA and PPE should be covered before even considering responding to calls. If someones life is in danger, even if you arent involved in directly saving them, you should not be on scene with no training. Hands on training and call experience are very valuable but only after you have covered basics in classroom. About 4 days after I joined our post, my dad and i pulled up on an accident on the side of the road. My Dad who is a firefighter/emt/rescue technician with 27 years of experience got out to help, but he told me to call 911 but would not let me help. I was very mad becasue i couldnt understand why he would let me go, after all, I was an explorer. My dad leter told me that it wouldnt of done me any good by being there, or the victim either becaus eI had no clue what i was doing but i thought i did just because I was an EXPLORER.

AS for the explorer post whos PPE involves a helmet, gloves, vest, and station or work botts, I find that ridiculous. If we are missing a SINGLE PIECE OF EQUIPMENT on a scene we are SENT HOME. We are given a full set of NFPA-compliant PPE(Helmet, gloves, hood, pants, boots, etc)

Thats why I was skeptical about being able to go on calls right away. I was thinking "what if someone asks me to get a haligan and I dont know where it is?" I asked my station chief and he said to tell them "im new." Thats all I do. They arent counting on me to go grab something off the truck for them right now, because they now im new. Thats why I stay with the driver, or with another FF. Once I learn more, then I can help more.

Stm, if his department allows their explorers/cadets to remain in the green zone, then who cares. When ever my dept has a hazmat call and I am riding, I am put into the green zone with the BC helping out at that point, I think that is what he is saying, he was in the green zone and helping with stuff from that point.

Hey I have a good idea, why dont YOU look up all the people that have died because they fell out of bed or slipped down some stairs or got hit by an 18 wheeler. There is danger everywhere you go. Your talking about issues you dont even belong in and im sorry you all bringer downers feel the way you do. at the same time i can understand because unlike most of you i am able to see both sides of the issue. What an explorer does on scene is to be determined by your officer. If you have a problem because your not allowed to ride keep it to yourself.

I would like to end this thread personally because it is B-S and all it is giving us is a reason to have controversy. Places do it different all over get used to it and move on.

Your talking about issues you dont even belong in and im sorry you all bringer downers feel the way you do.

It has been brought up on a public forum for discussion. We are only offering our input on what was brought up. If they didn't want other peoples thoughts and ideas, they wouldn't post things.

at the same time i can understand because unlike most of you i am able to see both sides of the issue.

I'd say that all of us can see "both sides" pretty well for the most part. I think most "juniors" realize what an IDLH environment is, where hot and cold zones are, and where they should be. There's a little bit of their own account for things there, along with their departments choice.

If you have a problem because your not allowed to ride keep it to yourself.

Umm if i recall correctly you said that... i believe it went something along the lines of juniors dont belong on apparatus or on calls for that matter...
not exactly sure you'll have to check and read how unintelligent you sound. especially about the matter of you dont learn anything on calls... etc etc.

Nate, I just went through and reread EVERYTHING I've said throughout this thread, and nowhere in it did I see anything that is even close to that.

NO. Cadets, Juniors, Explorers, should NOT but in an IDLH environment, or in a place where their safety is at risk. Obviously some risks are going to have to be taken, like if you are riding on apparatus to calls. But you should never be in an IDLH or unsafe environment.

If you read what I just quoted myself saying, you'll see that I acknowledge that we do have to take some risks if we are responding. We can take precautions to help prevent those risks, but they will always be there no matter what.

not exactly sure you'll have to check and read how unintelligent you sound. especially about the matter of you dont learn anything on calls... etc etc.

Unintelligent? I've defended by beliefs, I've read through what others believe, and haven't said anybody is "wrong". I'm open to whatever people present, but I'm also going to stand behind my point without saying there is a right or wrong way. That'd be like me telling you that you should be ashamed for calling me unintelligent.

Is it me or would that be like drivers ed but without the driving....Our Juniors are allowed to any and all calls as a "gopher". They are not allowed to enter and IDLH or "hot Zones". As training Captain on my department, the brass at the top should remember where they came from. On the job experience is like day and night to classroom. What the new guys experience in a controled enviroment will not and connot teach them the skills and knowledge that a actual structure fire can. To be completely honest, I would be lost and so would the other officers (the chief included), if we did have the extra hands to do the "side" jobs. I would be outraged if our town leaders said no to our program. You have no idea what your missing.

Is it me or would that be like drivers ed but without the driving....Our Juniors are allowed to any and all calls as a "gopher". They are not allowed to enter and IDLH or "hot Zones". As training Captain on my department, the brass at the top should remember where they came from. On the job experience is like day and night to classroom. What the new guys experience in a controled enviroment will not and connot teach them the skills and knowledge that a actual structure fire can. To be completely honest, I would be lost and so would the other officers (the chief included), if we did have the extra hands to do the "side" jobs. I would be outraged if our town leaders said no to our program. You have no idea what your missing.

Originally posted by pelcap Is it me or would that be like drivers ed but without the driving....Our Juniors are allowed to any and all calls as a "gopher". They are not allowed to enter and IDLH or "hot Zones". As training Captain on my department, the brass at the top should remember where they came from. On the job experience is like day and night to classroom. What the new guys experience in a controled enviroment will not and connot teach them the skills and knowledge that a actual structure fire can. To be completely honest, I would be lost and so would the other officers (the chief included), if we did have the extra hands to do the "side" jobs. I would be outraged if our town leaders said no to our program. You have no idea what your missing.