It is understood detectives had been granted an extension to keep [Sean Kelly] in custody for a further period, but then released him after some people made it clear they were not prepared to make witness statements to investigating officers. [added emphasis]

The teenager was shot twice in the legs at shops close to his home and at one stage was dangerously ill after one of the bullets severed his femoral artery.

Another damaged his bladder. His hospital condition tonight was described as “stable”.

It is understood police have ruled out any involvement by dissident republicans opposed to the peace process.

When is a Unionist politician, journalist or one of these ‘security consultants’ going to have the balls to come out and say what they only seem to be willing to hint at at present?

That we have a political party at the heart of our polluted, undemocratic devolved Assembly involved in using illegal guns to shoot children and teenagers in catholic areas of the country.

What other country in the western world would accept this disgusting scenario???

derrydave

I am the only one who seems to have no idea what the police mean when stating that they are not treating it as a paramilitary attack ? Is this some kind of family feud or something ? Or do they mean that Sinn Fein supporters / manstream republicans are responsible and that they are not now considered paramilitaries when they shoot someone ? Loads of innuendo about what has meant to have occurred here, but nothing really spelled out in either of these threads ?

Alias

Kelly has 9 life sentences and was released on licence so why hasn’t the SoS revoked his licence?

The inventive phrase that Jeffery Donaldson came out after the Shinners beat Paul Quinn to a pulp was that there’d be trouble for The Process if the Shinners were “corporately involved” – conveniently enough, the IMC found no evidence of it.

Dec

‘Kelly has 9 life sentences and was released on licence so why hasn’t the SoS revoked his licence? ‘
‘

For what, exactly?

Dec

‘It is understood police have ruled out any involvement by dissident republicans opposed to the peace process.
‘

Which appears to be at odds with what his mother is saying in today’s Irish News.

carl marks

That we have a political party at the heart of our polluted, undemocratic devolved Assembly involved in using illegal guns to shoot children and teenagers in catholic areas of the country.

Quick get your proof to the police right away,
If they ignore you go to the papers, when you put your evidence in front of them everybody will see your cast iron case.
Of course you do have proof don’t you?

carl marks

Of course the above post was for UPC

stewart1

She said she believed her son was shot by dissident republicans and that he had received two death threats over anti-social behaviour’

She also revealed that her son was “beat with hammers a lot of weeks ago” and had served a 33-month jail term for rioting linked to July 12 demonstrations.

“The 33-months was for the rioting which these people called him to do and then they have a cheek and go and lift a gun and shoot him,” she said.

She said she believed her son was shot by dissident republicans and that he had received two death threats over anti-social behaviour’

Of course her opinon is not as important as UPC or Alias, after all it is her son and she lives in ardoyne and has seen the build up to this,
UPC and Alias got the facts from a man in the pub who was talking to a bloke who heard it at a fleg protest.
Imagine this women disagreeing with them,

Scáth Shéamais

So the PSNI originally suspected it was a ‘paramilitary style’ attack, but when they lifted Sean Kelly it wasn’t paramilitary, and now that they’ve let him go it probably was a paramilitary attack again.

In July 2005, his licence was revoked by the then secretary of state for Northern Ireland, Peter Hain. There was evidence, said Mr Hain, that Kelly had become “re-involved in terrorism”.

Ten days later, Kelly was released on the orders of Mr Hain, a move strongly condemned by unionists.

The release was ordered on the eve of a statement by the IRA.

At the time, Mr Hain said the IRA statement “created a new situation and thereby changed the context of my original decision to suspend Sean Kelly’s licence”.

“The government accepts that the statement by the IRA is intended to express an end to paramilitary activity and criminality,” he said.

It would seem likely that the current SoS will have a say in PSNI statements on this affair.

The BBC also publishes a quote from Gerry Kelly:

“The serious crimes branch of the PSNI has questions to answer in arresting a high-profile republican who has always supported the peace process.”

Perhaps Peter and Gerry can organise a joint meeting with the Secretary of State and the Chief Constable and make public a transcript of the exchanges.

derrydave

After two threads and countless comments, at last I’ve heard (from elsewhere) what exactly this is allegedly all about. Allegations have been made locally apparantly that this little rat broke into a childrens disability complex on the Crumlin Road on Sunday night and stole the kids’ laptops. Now I have no idea if these allegations are true or not, however all I would ask is this – what do you do with a little scumbag who would do something like that ?? (given that he’d probably only get a suspended sentence if the cops could ever actually prove that he did it !).
If these allegations were true, would even the most reasonable amongst us retain much sympathy for this misunderstood ‘child’ ??? If true then it’s good enough for him as far as I’m concerned !

iluvni

“what do you do with a little scumbag who would do something like that ?? “.

Sinn fein could take him on as a SpAd. Seems as well qualified as anyone else they’ve taken on.

carl marks

iluvni

Sinn fein could take him on as a SpAd. Seems as well qualified as anyone else they’ve taken on.

Or he would be useful at a Fleg protest, just the sort of guy to stop a pensioner from getting to hospital to see his terminaly ill wife, would be useful for the odd bit of drug dealing as well! Do you think the loyalists would take him he would fit in lovely with that bunch and it would get him off the backs of the people of Ardoyne?

tacapall

Regardless of what the lad done, using violence or corporal punishment is wrong, if the young lad had of bled to death would that have been a mistake or would he have still deserved a death sentence for being anti social. Its up to local community groups and social workers to deal with problems like this not some local posse with a hang him high philosophy.

Pete the mother says it was dissident republicans, if you cant find any other proof that Sean Kelly was involved other than hearsay or assumption then its just making you look like one of the posse.

Henry94

The suspect in the break-in is entitled to a fair investigation from the PSNI and a fair trial in the courts. It is insanity to still support punishment beatings and shootings in the post-agreement era. There was a time when the nationalist community did no support the police. That’s over and whoever shot that boy in the legs is a bigger danger to society and a nastier scumbag than any robber.

By the same token Sean Kelly is also entitled to due process. If the police have a charge to bring then let them bring it. Put up or shut up.

Ulster Press Centre

derrydave: After two threads and countless comments, at last I’ve heard (from elsewhere) what exactly this is allegedly all about. Allegations have been made locally apparantly that this little rat broke into a childrens disability complex on the Crumlin Road on Sunday night and stole the kids’ laptops. Now I have no idea if these allegations are true or not, however all I would ask is this – what do you do with a little scumbag who would do something like that ?? (given that he’d probably only get a suspended sentence if the cops could ever actually prove that he did it !).
If these allegations were true, would even the most reasonable amongst us retain much sympathy for this misunderstood ‘child’ ??? If true then it’s good enough for him as far as I’m concerned !

Ah, derrydave pines for the days when people were fingered as child molesters in catholic areas and murdered or savagely beaten (while the Liam Adams and Briege Meehans of the world are protected from justice).

A world where ‘drug dealers’ are shot dead, kneecapped or driven from their homes in catholic areas (while the IRA send three top Sinn Fein members to the Colombian cocaine factories to exchange military knowledge for narcotics shipments to Ireland).

A world where SF take to the streets complaining about catholic deaths caused by Loyalists/British peacekeepers (but people like Robert McCartney, Andrew Kearney and Paul Quinn can be beaten or shot dead over a personal dispute with a senior IRA criminal).

Thems were good times, weren’t they derrydave??? Real justice, indeed….

Kevsterino

Things just don’t appear to be going unionism’s way of late.

Dec

UPC

You appear to spend most of your time eulogising Billy Hunter, he of shooting 2 catholic brothers in the back of their head fame, so spare us the sanctimony, eh?.

http://ardoynerepublican.blogspot.com/ Ardoyne Republican

Punishment attacks should be consigned to history but sadly are not as a number of people have experenced in Ardoyne this week..There are a number of Restorative Justice Systems in place as alternative to the above and are well-used in places like Ardoyne..Somply because the local community does not trust or support the rebranded RUC and prefer alternatives..

Regards Sean Kelly and other former Political Prisoners being demonised, arrested and detained by the british Political Police..This type of arrest is nothing new and shouldn’t be taken as proof of any guilt of involvement in alleged activities..The bottom line is that the RUC/PSNI are more interested in targeting Republicans in everyday life instead of focusing on the Criminals who prey on disadvantaged communities….

The ‘new beginning to Policing’ promised by PSF in 2007 has not taken place and in mine and many other Republicans’ opinions is because of the direction and management of the current Policing model by the Spooks in MI5….

It’s high time that the RUC/PSNI were boycotted by the Nationalist/Republican community across the North….

http://gravatar.com/joeharron Mister_Joe

AR,

Hope I’m not playing the man, but you couldn’t possibly be paranoid, could you?
To me, remote I admit, there does seem to be a big improvement in policing although I agree that there is still some “political policing” at the highest levels.

Ulster Press Centre

Dec:
UPC, You appear to spend most of your time eulogising Billy Hunter, he of shooting 2 catholic brothers in the back of their head fame, so spare us the sanctimony, eh?.

Is there a way to block sectarian trolls on here? This type of nonsense gets boring after a while.

derrydave

UPC,

I’m on record here quite clearly stating that the police service being provided in the North has improved immeasurably, and I obviously do not want to go back to the days where the lack of a police service in republican areas necessitated a more direct approach shall we say from the republican community. However…………there remain occassions when certain scumbags do seem so completely and utterly beyond redemption that people are genuinely at a loss as to how to deal with them. These scum genuinely make peoples lives a misery, and as they lack all moral grounding they see absolutely nothing as off-limits (Childrens disability centre, hospital, church, christmas presents, wedding presents, pensioners etc etc etc – all open season for these scumbags).
The police service are often operating with their hands tied behind their backs, and the court system is weak and not really fit for purpose in dealing with this tiny minority. So….what to do ??? Just live with it ? Just continue allowing these people to do what they want and destroy peoples lives around them ? Maybe that’s all we can do, however if every once in a while one of these complete lowlife scum get a few bullets, then I’ll shed no tears and be quite happy that for once one of these rats got what was coming to them.
Is it the answer ? absolutely not. Will this scumbag be out of action for a while and will plenty of people in Ardoyne be happy about that tonight ? Absolutely !

Dec

UPC

I couldn’t have put it better myself.

carl marks

UPC
“Is there a way to block sectarian trolls on here? This type of nonsense gets boring after a while.”

Guess what well known phrase went through my head when i read this, here is a clue the words Turkey and Christmas were in it

http://nalil.blogspot.com Nevin

“the apparent punishment shooting”

It seems we get the best of both worlds in Northern Ireland: paramilitary justice on the one hand and (additional) Government ‘secret justice’ on the other – with a little assistance, in the latter case, from our very own Ian Paisley jnr.

David Davis, the leading Conservative backbencher, said: ‘It is appalling that the Government has reneged on its promise to allow full judicial discretion as enacted by the Lords.’

Andrew Tyrie, the Tory who campaigned for years against torture and rendition, says: ‘Not only must all of the Lords’ amendments remain in the Bill, they need to be underpinned by further improvements.’

Mr Davis added: ‘What the Government did last week is a massive dilution of the protections put in place by the Lords. I can only hope they will summon up the courage to reinstate them.’

babyface finlayson

AR
“It’s high time that the RUC/PSNI were boycotted by the Nationalist/Republican community across the North….”
That hardly seems very likely to happen. Would it not be better to work towards improving the service we have.
Does 30% from the catholic community not seem like something to be built on, rather than torn down?

ArdoyneUnionist

Seems a serious case of PSNI flip flopping on the, is it or is it not a paramilitary punishment shooting. Now that evidence has been retracted and refusal to give statements and IRA bomber has been released its now back to being a paramilitary shooting.

Tune in next week for the psni next enthroning flip flop saga of is it or is it not a paramilitary shooting.

http://ardoynerepublican.blogspot.com/ Ardoyne Republican

@Mister_Joe

On the face of it chara, Policing in the North ‘seems’ to have made a big improvement but that is but a perception an illusion…

One only has to into account the recent report by the CAJ concerning the ‘accountability gap’ between Policing and MI5 to find out the truth mate…It can be read in full here;http://www.caj.org.uk/contents/1141

Thinking there are but a ‘a few bad apples’ is yet another illusion as the entire force are corrupted, directed and managed by MI5 chara!

http://ardoynerepublican.blogspot.com/ Ardoyne Republican

@babyface finlayson

Why can a boycott of this Political Police Force not happen? Irish citizens have for close on 150 yrs been subjected to the same dinosaur policing, and deserve a genuine All-Ireland Police Service that puts the citizen first and foremost! Instead of a corrupt organisation directed by the spooks in MI5..

MI5 have no right to operate in any part of Ireland, they are an insideous organisation who are only interested in the interests of British Imperialists who care nothing about citizens here…

The entire system needs legislated in favour of the citizen and the irish nation as a whole. Without thoses changes and Policing radically changed, it should be boycotted with everyone who believes in Human Rights chara. Whether it’s 30% or 100% Catholic, doesn’t matter to me. The Conflict here was never about religion and I’ve no interest in a sectarian head-count mate.

Ulster Press Centre

derrydave,

1, Who decides who should be shot by these vigilantes? We’ve seen in the past that drug dealers, joy riders, house breakers and vile rapists of pre-pubescent children are left alone if they are part of (or have close ties to) the IRA or a senior member.

2, You may not be aware that shooting a hoodlum in the leg has as much impact on him stopping his behaviour as a jail sentence or fine does ie. none whatsoever. Shooting hoods does nothing but satisfy your own archaic bloodlust – the kind of which continues to this day in Saudi Arabia and Iran. A scumbag will always be a scumbag – regardless of whether they have a hole in their leg.

Come join the rest of us in the 21st century.

babyface finlayson

Ardoyne Republican
I’m not saying a boycott can’t happen, but it is very unlikely. You are talking about widespread sustained action,which would certainly make life more difficult for most of us in the short term. That level of feeling is simply not there.
And who will police our communities while the PSNI is being replaced?
I agree with your point about sectarian headcounts but it is a useful way of assessing the community representation within the police. Can you suggest a better way?
By voting intentions?
By class?
When you say;
“The entire system needs legislated in favour of the citizen and the irish nation as a whole. ”
What do you mean? How will this be achieved?
Preview is saying ‘anonymous’ so I am signing off.
Babyface.

carl marks

Ardoyne Republican
The people of Ardoyne would rather the PSNI policed them (even through it is not perfect) than the sort of people who appoint themselves Judge, jury, and executioner and dispense justice up a entry at night with a handgun.
Regardless of what the lad done (and I am told he is no saint) he is entitled to due process by the law and not to be dealt with by some thug who’s only qualification is that he has a gun.

http://ardoynerepublican.blogspot.com/ Ardoyne Republican

@babyface finlayson

Given recent Loyalist Protests, Attacks on the Short Strand and today’s failure by the British Police to remove thugs away from Seaview Football Gorund and allow a peaceful match take place. Not forgetting the ongoing Political arrests and unjust detentions of Republicans…

I believe it is only a matter of time before the Nat/Rep community begin an earnest Boycott campaign against the RUC/PSNI…People, particularly the Working-Class are opening their eyes to the illusion of a ‘New Police Service’!

Most changes have come from the same community in the past and wouldn’t rule it out in the future..

There are a number of Restorative Justice Projects out there which could effectively replace the dinosaur of current Policing chara. Not perfect I know but there are decent alternatives which have helped many people find justice…

Ardoyne Republican: I believe it is only a matter of time before the Nat/Rep community begin an earnest Boycott campaign against the RUC/PSNI…People, particularly the Working-Class are opening their eyes to the illusion of a ‘New Police Service’!

Perhaps you and your supporters should also boycott your local Jobs & Benefits office too? Surely you can’t pick and choose which arms of an oppressive state you support and which you don’t?

At least show a bit of consistency.

http://ardoynerepublican.blogspot.com/ Ardoyne Republican

@carl marks

Where or when have I said that I want/desire ‘gunmen’ Policing Ardoyne? I’ve often stated that Restorative Projects are the way to go, particularly given the huge failure of the RUC/PSNI to properly Police Ardoyne and surrounding areas…

Ardoyne is a Working-Class Nationalist/Republican area who have experienced bad, sectarian, political and hostile Policing for generations and still are in spite of empty promises from the Catholic Clergy, SDLP & PSF…Just ask Sean Kelly, Raymond Wotton, Thomas McWilliams, Micheal Gorman, Brendan Campbell and GARC’s Peaceful Protesters to name a few mate..

Therefore, your assertion that Ardoyne prefer the ‘PSNI’ is at odds with facts on the ground chara!

As for due process, what type of Justice applies to Marion Price and Martin Corey when they remained Interned by the same system, which continues to use Diplock Courts against citizens.

babyface finlayson

Ardoyne RepublicanI believe it is only a matter of time before the Nat/Rep community begin an earnest Boycott campaign against the RUC/PSNI…”
Maybe they will,but I really doubt it. We will see I guess.
I’m not being facetious by the way. I just think it takes a lot to rouse people to that level of concerted sustained action.
As for the restorative justice projects I am sure they can be very useful, in conjunction with a proper police force, but not instead of one.
And on your last point about aiming for all ireland people centred police force; that sounds fine,but an awfully long way away. What do we do in the meantime?
You are, if you don’t mind me saying,an idealist, but we need pragmatic solutions to real here and now issues.

All police services are ‘state-centred’ as they exist to enforce the state’s law, as determined by its national parliament. Which parliament’s law would you have the police in Ireland enforce? If they were to enforce British law on Irish people or Irish law on British people then you’d have conceded the principle that the people do not have the right to determine their own law, and that this should be imposed upon them by foreign parliaments that they do not elect. How does that sit with your desire for a “people-centred” approach? How does it sit with your claim to be a republican?

And, incidentally, most of your pals in ‘dissidency’ are on the payroll of MI5. MI5 exists to promote and to protect British national interests, and they will continue to operate within police forces across the UK and within Northern Ireland (and, indeed, Ireland – as the sacked Garda Commissioner Edmund Garvey was an MI5 agent) and within state-sponsored gangs.

galloglaigh

It’s just dawned on me who Don’t Drink Bleach was all them months ago but anyway…

Hello Mr Mick…

UPC’s 815 is again, and sorry to have to point this out again and again, but it’s the type of double standards openly on display on Slugger O’Toole. I got two red cards and a yellow for saying Peter Robinson put a picture of Clinton in the background, to make him look like a man of peace.

How can such accusations be allowed to remain on this domain, unless to join the anti-shinner bandwagon? I’m no shinner, nor do I agree with them on a lot of things, but if you think the likes of Jamie Bryson on Slugger O’Toole can be the tools for the job, then I’m afraid you’ll just join the list for people to laugh at.

It’s time unionism grew up. The game’s up. Give over…

galloglaigh

*8:51

Kevsterino

I don’t see one at 8:51, unless perhaps it has been removed.

carl marks

AR
Therefore, your assertion that Ardoyne prefer the ‘PSNI’ is at odds with facts on the ground chara!

Strange I’m in Ardoyne quite a lot, spend time in the clubs and visit friends and relatives, now i will admit there is little sympathy for the lad who was shot but there is even less support for the shooting, the thing that seems to get said to me a lot is “the police should handle these things” many people think (myself among them) think the police should up their game but I hear no calls for a boycott of the PSNI.
Now tell me who will police Ardoyne if this Boycott came about, will it be self appointed “Patriots” with thundersticks the same people we see urging on the rentamob around the 12th how do you propose to ensure fair trials who will examine evidence, how will appeals take place, what system will be used to pick the jury, will a defence lawyer be supplied,
We all know every legal system makes mistakes in the event of such a thing happening will the innocent person have their kneecaps returned to them?

Thanks, gallo, I see it now. I see your point, but I’ve never really understood the moderation policy in effect here, other than it seems pretty flexible at times and mostly in one direction.

I try to think along the lines of, “Do I want folks like that to be shepherded into sounding reasonable?” My answer is no, I want bigots to sound like bigots so people can appreciate the lay of the land. It’s kind of like, when you are trying to ford a river, find a spot where the water is clear and you can see the rocks. I think forcing bitter people to be nice just muddies the water.

http://ardoynerepublican.blogspot.com/ Ardoyne Republican

@Alias, your response to my post above was pretty good and I was begining to answer your comments until I read and re-read the last paragraph which included the usual smears and slurs thrown around against dissenting Republicans on a daily basis, without a shred of evidence…

To be honest the only people I see raking in stacks of money are those Career Politicans and so-called Community Workers who spend most of their time advocating Stormont and British Police & Laws in Ireland…Protecting British & Imperialist interests but then again that’s not surprising given all the political summersaults they’ve made in recent years mate!

http://ardoynerepublican.blogspot.com/ Ardoyne Republican

Ulster Press Centre;

What relevance does the job centre and political policing have mate? Maybe you should try waking-up again and get a shower before returning to the keyboard chara.

Alias

AR, when MI5 gives me copies of the receipts for payments made to ‘dissidents’ I’ll happily pass them on to you. I strongly suspect, however, that won’t be any time soon.

MI5 spent about a quarter of its budget in Northern Ireland. What do you think they spent this on? Updating the office furniture? The bulk of it went into the bank accounts of ‘republicans’ and ilk.

It was anticipated that not all members of the Shinners would be led to sign up to the legitimacy of British rule so new ‘anti-state’ gangs would have to be engineered in order to soak them up them and to ‘contain’ their agenda in the same manner that the Shinners contained the mainstreamers. In due course, once the British state is fully stablised, the political wing of these gangs can declare themsleves satisified with the consolidated British state with some suitable proviso added in (perhaps the extension of British policing to Ireland, thereby undermining the right to the Irish people to determine their own law, with that being sold as some ‘all-Ireland’ progression).

Their other role is to provide a token ‘threat’ to the legitimised British state which can be used to consolidate it, and not to undermine it – with the threat being that murder and mayhem is the only possible consequence of rejecting the legitimacy of British rule.

If the low-level dissident gangs didn’t exist, the British state would have to invent them – which is they did.

Alias

Incidentally, one other point to watch is how skilfully the British state has replaced ‘Orange’ with British. Prior to the British state changing the agenda, the old agenda was to unite Orange and Green, with these two traditions forming one nation and with parity of esteem between them. Now the Orange is being systematically eradicated and replaced with British, with the proposed parity of esteem being between two separate nations. This is now the British state is internalising itself, by making itself inextricable from the British nation. The British state isn’t going anywhere…

http://ardoynerepublican.blogspot.com/ Ardoyne Republican

@Carl Marks;

Great to hear that you often frequent Ardoyne and it’s watering holes talking to fellow Party members who hold the bars up every week. Strange isn’t it, how in these auster times that there are still a few who can waste their money on drink chara. Especially when the majority of residents live below the poverty line. That European and American ‘peace’ money does wonders to keep Constitutional Republicans on board the PSF train!

I guess, it’s these intoxicated fellas who fill you full of stories about how good of a job the ‘new’ Police force are doing in the district..I notice you failed to mention the ongoing and unjust incarceration of too many Ardoyne residents. Suppose when you keep your eyes closed it’s a little hard to see what everyone can.

In answer to your questions concerning who will police Ardoyne in the event of a boycott? Maybe it will be the Rent-A-Shinner outsiders bussed-in who materialise every time there’s an unwelcome sectarian parade and disappear soon after..Maybe it’ll be the British Secret Service who already manage & manipulate the RUC/PSNI…Or could it be the ‘Community’ Workers who no longer live in the district but return whenever there is money to be distributed & various committees elected..Finally, it could be the well-paid Politicans who will use the Social Services, Probation Board, Political Police and anyone else to keep the local community under the thumb..Who knows?

As for victims kneecaps, well we all know how many young people the Provies damaged over the years. But my last sentence doesn’t quite fit in with your narrative mate. After all, you may well be another former Provisional who was also never a Volunteer eh?

We all know every legal system makes mistakes in the event of such a thing happening will the innocent person have their kneecaps returned to them?