``EINHORN: And my feeling has been that by having rates at zero for a very, very long time the harm that we're doing to savers outweighs the benefits that might be seen elsewhere in the economy. So I got to ask him about this. SCHATZKER: Okay, and what did he say? EINHORN: Well first of all he says, you're wrong. That was good. And then he said the reason is if you raise interest rates for savers, somebody has to pay that interest. So you don't create any value in the economy because for every saver there has to be a borrower.''