Vendor Fee's

Stratics VeteranSupporterStratics Legend

I think the time has come to remove vendor fee's.
They worked as a gold sink while the game was lush with many many shops ect...
but now they are just a reason why many don't even have a shop on their plot.

The big money items are sold via chat then dropped on the vendor for only a short time so as not to incur the vendor charge...
Many just use Vendors as a place to store their Bods as they take up far to much plot lockdowns otherwise.
The vendor fee is just hurting the game now.

On Europa now there are only a few well stocked vendor shops for everyday items and they are talking about closing down as they spend more in vendor fee's than they actually make due to the low value of consumables.

Something needs to be done soon or we are going to turn into a game where you have to make "everything" yourself.

Look on real life for an example, First the shops go then the people go.

best stocked shop on euro curently is ard she have 2,5m fee a day thats 912,5m a year in fee alone way more then many can take in profit wen they sell its just to high is why hardly any one sell any more on euro now and its hurting euro over all

Stratics VeteranSupporterStratics Legend

I think you are wrong. I think Vendor Fees are just fine. It's a gold sink.... designed to remove gold from the game and honestly there is too much and the distribution is getting too wide.

Vendor fees need to remain.... it keeps folk from ridiculously overpricing stuff ..... price things right and it won't sit on the vendor eatting up fees.

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It's not working as a gold sink thou. I want to sell an item for 100mill then I just spam I'm selling it till someone wants it, then I put it on vendor and within a few minutes its sold and I incur no vendor charge.
Now somebody who stocks consumables like recalls and bandies ect. is getting charged per day for items that are low gold items.

A gold sink that don't remove gold from the big sellers ain't a gold sink that's working. Not to mention keeping a fully stocked shop is almost a full time game in itself......and not a fun game.
We should not be punishing the low gold seller while the big spenders are free to acrew their gold pots.

In this respect its far to close to real life and corporate tax evasion than is funny for a game.

Stratics Veteran

It's not working as a gold sink thou. I want to sell an item for 100mill then I just spam I'm selling it till someone wants it, then I put it on vendor and within a few minutes its sold and I incur no vendor charge.

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i have 6 luna vendors, total daily fees are about 10million gold. many people have many more vendors than that, with much higher daily fees. so the gold sink thing does work to an extent. just from me thats 300-400m removed from the game per year, and im just one player. It would be interesting (but way to time consuming) to add up every item for sale on atlantic at least and figure out how much gold was being removed per day. i think it to be hundreds of millions daily. currently, there is no other gold sink in the game that comes close to that.

It's not working as a gold sink thou. I want to sell an item for 100mill then I just spam I'm selling it till someone wants it, then I put it on vendor and within a few minutes its sold and I incur no vendor charge.
Now somebody who stocks consumables like recalls and bandies ect. is getting charged per day for items that are low gold items.

A gold sink that don't remove gold from the big sellers ain't a gold sink that's working. Not to mention keeping a fully stocked shop is almost a full time game in itself......and not a fun game.
We should not be punishing the low gold seller while the big spenders are free to acrew their gold pots.

In this respect its far to close to real life and corporate tax evasion than is funny for a game.

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That's not necessarily true. I've gotten a handful of EM event drops and Small Soul Forges this year that were 100m+ items. Because I like to actually play the game and not spend all my time spamming in Gen Chat, I put these items on my vendor, checked prices on a daily basis to make sure mine were competitive and on occasion have posted in the rares forum here. Most times these items went quick, but there were a few occasions where the soul forges sat on my vendor for multiple weeks. Did I probably lose a few mill worth of vendor fees? Yes. However, it freed me up from being a gen-chat spammer as well as that I found many times these items were purchased when I was at work during the day. So while your point might be true for some who spam in gen chat, it's certainly not true for all. I'm not sure how this amounts to corporate tax evasion.

This is a much needed gold sink, if not the biggest and most important one in the game. I've seen other proposals such has have it setup so that the fee would be taken off of a vendor when an item is sold (similar to a sales tax) as opposed to the daily charges which could be a viable option if done correctly, but that aside, I don't think completely removing them would work. Vendor fees also act as a price control so that if someone is going to have an item priced high and sitting on a vendor long term, they will be penalized for it... so in other words, they will have motivation to price their items accordingly (as per my example above).

ProfessionalCampaign Patron

i have 6 luna vendors, total daily fees are about 10million gold. many people have many more vendors than that, with much higher daily fees. so the gold sink thing does work to an extent. just from me thats 300-400m removed from the game per year, and im just one player. It would be interesting (but way to time consuming) to add up every item for sale on atlantic at least and figure out how much gold was being removed per day. i think it to be hundreds of millions daily. currently, there is no other gold sink in the game that comes close to that.

the vender fees problem really depends on the shard, some don't have the population to support keeping venders. most lose money. most new or returning players do not play/stay long, due to this. I did a thread about this awhile ago, asking for no charge with low end items, say 10k to 25k. just so new and returning players can get some of the things they may need. I didn't ask to change the whole system. I know a some don't care about the smaller shards vender issues. people talk about gold sinks ect. we really need to talk about where did/does all this gold come from. why does script looting gold and duping still happen. the vender fees are hurting the game on low populated shards.

Stratics Veteran

oops yes your right. i guess its an even bigger gold sink. and im perfectly fine paying that, obviously i wouldnt be if i wasnt making a significant profit off those vendors. Id say about half my trades are done player to player, but half are off vendor. i dunno maybe vendors are only a third. even the 3.65 bil, while substantial, is overall a pretty small percentage, but an excellent gold sink.

Stratics Veteran

Overall, im not really sure how do solve the problem of vendor fees on smaller shards. Id love to see fees scale according to shard population, or even manually adjusted according to shard, but can see the time / effort involved in that being a problem for the devs.

The main point of vendor's fees aren't as a gold sink, but rather to prevent them being used as storage. Look at how many vendors are exploited as storage by BOD collectors. Then expand that to all the non BOD collectors putting worthless items on for a billion each if vendor fees are removed. Will mean people can close storage accounts, so less money for the game.

Fees could be lowered, but not by a huge amount. It is also why it can't really be converted to a sale fee.

The main point of vendor's fees aren't as a gold sink, but rather to prevent them being used as storage. Look at how many vendors are exploited as storage by BOD collectors. Then expand that to all the non BOD collectors putting worthless items on for a billion each if vendor fees are removed. Will mean people can close storage accounts, so less money for the game.

Fees could be lowered, but not by a huge amount. It is also why it can't really be converted to a sale fee.

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People still use vendors for free storage.... I've seen vendors holding peoples collection of books and boxes all the time... Why? Because they can store a bunch of that and price it Not for Sale... Very annoying. This wouldn't be so annoying if they opted out of the search.... since searching for a particular book brings up these not for sale books.

I too am not sure totally removing vendor fees would be a good idea.
I am a bit sad though, that on my crafters (templates I generally prefer to play), I make more gold (nearly double) selling directly to NPC's than I could through vending... and its immediate and without "tax". Kind of feel shafted as a crafter overall, but I'm sure there's another thread for that

Stratics Veteran

Why not just charge fees on items that are priced over a set amount... say anything over 1m will get the fees added to them. I don't know if this is possible but it would let players sell low end items that might not be desirable enough to sell quickly.

GovernorStratics VeteranAlumni

the vender fees problem really depends on the shard, some don't have the population to support keeping venders. most lose money. most new or returning players do not play/stay long, due to this. I did a thread about this awhile ago, asking for no charge with low end items, say 10k to 25k. just so new and returning players can get some of the things they may need. I didn't ask to change the whole system. I know a some don't care about the smaller shards vender issues. people talk about gold sinks ect. we really need to talk about where did/does all this gold come from. why does script looting gold and duping still happen. the vender fees are hurting the game on low populated shards.

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Just fix it where anything under 500k doesnt have a fee. That would let some of us stock training suits and various useful consumables without haveing fees eat up all the profits, but would still be a gold sink on the higher priced goods

GovernorStratics VeteranAlumni

Seriously, if the gold sink is *that* important, do it from the other end. Lower all gold drops on every mob out there by 15% or so...less gold floating around, yet the small shard vendor isnt being hurt

Stratics Veteran

Didn't we already talk about this a few months ago? There's no point in removing the gold sink. It's only removing even more of a gap for new/returning players. The game needs all gold sinks and not to have them removed.

And reducing gold drops instead while removing vendor fees? That's like a double slap to the face for new/returning players.

We already talked this all out. Don't let lack of contrary responses sway anyone. Just tired of talking it out again.

Vendor fees are killing every shard except Atlantic and Great Lakes. I know many of you play there so honestly your opinion doesn't count. I'm all for leaving them on those 2 populated shards. Every other shard the shopping is drying up and killing out shards. It seriously needs to be addressed and soon. On many shards it's simply not possible to even find day to day items anymore. It's time for Broadsword to wake up and smell the coffee on this issue. On Great Lakes I did pretty well running a vendor, on Legends it's mostly a charity to the community. I would like to offer the people of Legends some of the things they need, but to be continually losing money just works for so long. I price my stuff at least half of what i could sell it for easily on Great Lakes and buyers are still few and far between. To run a vendor on most shards is just a gift to the community cause there certainly isn't any profit in it. No one does it all on their own. Sooner or later you need to buy some things. When it goes months and you still can't find things you need it seriously impacts the game experience. Broadsword your killing our shards. I'm not offering an opinion here, it's a blatant fact.

Vendor fees are killing every shard except Atlantic and Great Lakes. I know many of you play there so honestly your opinion doesn't count. I'm all for leaving them on those 2 populated shards. Every other shard the shopping is drying up and killing out shards. It seriously needs to be addressed and soon. On many shards it's simply not possible to even find day to day items anymore. It's time for Broadsword to wake up and smell the coffee on this issue. On Great Lakes I did pretty well running a vendor, on Legends it's mostly a charity to the community. I would like to offer the people of Legends some of the things they need, but to be continually losing money just works for so long. I price my stuff at least half of what i could sell it for easily on Great Lakes and buyers are still few and far between. To run a vendor on most shards is just a gift to the community cause there certainly isn't any profit in it. No one does it all on their own. Sooner or later you need to buy some things. When it goes months and you still can't find things you need it seriously impacts the game experience. Broadsword your killing our shards. I'm not offering an opinion here, it's a blatant fact.

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Again... as stated and argued in another thread. The items you're talking about can be covered by gold most of us just leave rotting on a couple corpses.

I can sell a forged pardon for 100k and it keep my vendor up for months so long as I'm not putting expensive items on it.

You're asking them to remove a fee that sinks hundreds of thousands of gold so that you don't have to loot a couple corpses for your vendor that sells 10k gold items.

We all know what these topics are really about. You all want no fee on your 100k+ vendors. This isn't helpful to anyone. The gold sinks are necessary. MORE necessary. If anything keep the fees we have now and increase the ones on items that are selling for 500k+.

GovernorStratics VeteranAlumni

Again... as stated and argued in another thread. The items you're talking about can be covered by gold most of us just leave rotting on a couple corpses.

I can sell a forged pardon for 100k and it keep my vendor up for months so long as I'm not putting expensive items on it.

You're asking them to remove a fee that sinks hundreds of thousands of gold so that you don't have to loot a couple corpses for your vendor that sells 10k gold items.

We all know what these topics are really about. You all want no fee on your 100k+ vendors. This isn't helpful to anyone. The gold sinks are necessary. MORE necessary. If anything keep the fees we have now and increase the ones on items that are selling for 500k+.

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You're absolutely right! High vendor fees are a great gold sink, and definitely encourage everyone to run a vendor loaded with lower priced necessities that are usually slow movers. We should quintuple them ! It's a wonder the lands aren't covered in vendors! {/sarcasm]

Stratics Veteran

Gold coin number 1: Vendor fees can and will be avoided by selling items in general chat or via trade board forums. They are not viewed as a positive player gold sink.

Gold coin number 2: If you want to take gold out of the game, have the npc vendors sell items such as SoulStones, SoulStone Frags, or other items that are linked/bonded directly to the player's account.

Again, the "gold sink" aspect of it isn't really the major factor here. It is storage. I imagine Broadsword don't really care about the gold sink aspect of it - the economy of UO is so saturated with gold that it is fairly irrelevant. Hell, a lot of items now sell for so much that they can't even be placed on a vendor!

They do care about storage on the other hand. As giving everyone more free storage means less money coming into UO.

And make no mistake about it, the biggest use for fee-less vendors will be storage. People already use them to store anything they can that doesn't cost a fee.

Ways around that? You could make items on vendors use up the house's storage space. Obviously, a blanket implementation of this would cause a lot of outrage from many people. So perhaps the option - a vendor can either be set-up with fees, and no storage space is used. Or vendors can be set up with no fees, and would take up house storage. People can make the choice vendor by vendor. They can then put marque/slow moving items on ones that take up storage space and quick moving items on the ones that have fees. If you are renting out vendors to people, you have the choice of selling them a fee or a space vendor. Obviously, you'd charge more for a space one.

Now this might be technically difficult to implement, but it does offer a solution whereby Broadsword aren't giving away one of their revenue streams.

Again... as stated and argued in another thread. The items you're talking about can be covered by gold most of us just leave rotting on a couple corpses.

I can sell a forged pardon for 100k and it keep my vendor up for months so long as I'm not putting expensive items on it.

You're asking them to remove a fee that sinks hundreds of thousands of gold so that you don't have to loot a couple corpses for your vendor that sells 10k gold items.

We all know what these topics are really about. You all want no fee on your 100k+ vendors. This isn't helpful to anyone. The gold sinks are necessary. MORE necessary. If anything keep the fees we have now and increase the ones on items that are selling for 500k+.

Look just make anything on a vendor need a price. Storage problem fixed. It's nice to have a "Welcome" book on a vendor for free, that can't be sold but it isn't more important than our shards. If people want to throw bod books on there fine, but they have to set a price. We can fix that storage problem pretty quick. Make just a normal brown bag the only container that is a not for sale item. This isn't that complex an issue compared to saving our shards. They jumped through hoops over this banking duping fix, this issue is every bit as important. I think this shard destruction issue is twice as important as duping. Someone wants 20 vendors? OMG I pray that would happen on Legends, nothing would make my happier! Players from the shopping center of UO (Atlantic) are going to preach to me on this issue? Keep on walking... lol Completely clueless and unconcerned about anything but themselves with no concern about the game as a whole. Wouldn't want to slow down the Atlantic economy, the gold sucking beast that it is.

Look just make anything on a vendor need a price. Storage problem fixed. It's nice to have a "Welcome" book on a vendor for free, that can't be sold but it isn't more important than our shards. If people want to throw bod books on there fine, but they have to set a price. We can fix that storage problem pretty quick. Make just a normal brown bag the only container that is a not for sale item. This isn't that complex an issue compared to saving our shards. They jumped through hoops over this banking duping fix, this issue is every bit as important. I think this shard destruction issue is twice as important as duping. Someone wants 20 vendors? OMG I pray that would happen on Legends, nothing would make my happier! Players from the shopping center of UO (Atlantic) are going to preach to me on this issue? Keep on walking... lol Completely clueless and unconcerned about anything but themselves with no concern about the game as a whole. Wouldn't want to slow down the Atlantic economy, the gold sucking beast that it is.

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You're missing the point on the storage issue. It is not the items that can currently be put on there unpriced - that is already in effect, removing fees makes no difference to that. The issue is that if you remove the fees then I am going to put all my junk on vendors in bags priced at 50 million, when the contents is clearly worth far far less than that. I know no one will buy it, so it is just extra free storage for me. If someone does buy it, then I am up 50 million. And I will find more junk to store on there. You can't even say "well just charge a fee on items worth more than 1 million", because then I will use it to store my low level treasure maps, tools etc. Again, they will be at prices that no one will buy them. And you can guarantee a lot of people will allow these storage vendors to be searched, thus filling the vendor search with items which are for all intents and purposes not legitimately for sale.

As for the melodrama about it "ruining our shards"... I am almost certain my shard has lower population than yours and I would suffer far worse lag wise moving to one of the populated shards than you would. But having less vendor items is the price I pay for the enjoyment of the shard I am on. If it becomes an issue where I need the perks of a larger shard and it is "ruining" the experience, then I will transfer to one of the shards where there is higher population. That option exists. I am not forced to endure this "game ruining issue".

It's too bad there's no in-game mailbox type of system that would let crafters "send" an item or bag of crafted items to a potential customer. The customer would receive the delivery, inspect it, and if it was to his liking, pay the price attached to the transmission and take delivery. If it wasn't what he wanted, he would just send it back to the crafter. (Don't know if you remember him or not, but this was one of Woodsman's ideas.) Perhaps the system could also include the ability for the potential customer to make a counter-offer on the price if he deemed the original price to be too high.

Edited to add: If a gold sink feature is needed, I would imagine that it would be pretty easy to add a "tax" to the above-mentioned mailbox system.

You're missing the point on the storage issue. It is not the items that can currently be put on there unpriced - that is already in effect, removing fees makes no difference to that. The issue is that if you remove the fees then I am going to put all my junk on vendors in bags priced at 50 million, when the contents is clearly worth far far less than that. I know no one will buy it, so it is just extra free storage for me. If someone does buy it, then I am up 50 million. And I will find more junk to store on there. You can't even say "well just charge a fee on items worth more than 1 million", because then I will use it to store my low level treasure maps, tools etc. Again, they will be at prices that no one will buy them. And you can guarantee a lot of people will allow these storage vendors to be searched, thus filling the vendor search with items which are for all intents and purposes not legitimately for sale.

As for the melodrama about it "ruining our shards"... I am almost certain my shard has lower population than yours and I would suffer far worse lag wise moving to one of the populated shards than you would. But having less vendor items is the price I pay for the enjoyment of the shard I am on. If it becomes an issue where I need the perks of a larger shard and it is "ruining" the experience, then I will transfer to one of the shards where there is higher population. That option exists. I am not forced to endure this "game ruining issue".

Stratics VeteranStratics Legend

What, if a reward (vet reward or anniversary) would be a fee free vendor, allowed to be applied to one vendor per account per shard? (Item linked to vendor, account bound, locked in house or being stored in bank box)
This would work similar like the garden sheds. Additional limit could be set for a fee free total allowance, if necessary, so that the vendor could hold items in a value of 10 million or so for free and everything over it will be taxed as normal.

You're missing the point on the storage issue. It is not the items that can currently be put on there unpriced - that is already in effect, removing fees makes no difference to that. The issue is that if you remove the fees then I am going to put all my junk on vendors in bags priced at 50 million, when the contents is clearly worth far far less than that. I know no one will buy it, so it is just extra free storage for me. If someone does buy it, then I am up 50 million. And I will find more junk to store on there. You can't even say "well just charge a fee on items worth more than 1 million", because then I will use it to store my low level treasure maps, tools etc. Again, they will be at prices that no one will buy them. And you can guarantee a lot of people will allow these storage vendors to be searched, thus filling the vendor search with items which are for all intents and purposes not legitimately for sale.

As for the melodrama about it "ruining our shards"... I am almost certain my shard has lower population than yours and I would suffer far worse lag wise moving to one of the populated shards than you would. But having less vendor items is the price I pay for the enjoyment of the shard I am on. If it becomes an issue where I need the perks of a larger shard and it is "ruining" the experience, then I will transfer to one of the shards where there is higher population. That option exists. I am not forced to endure this "game ruining issue".

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Well that's pretty much the most hogwash I've read in one post in a pretty long time. Where did *I* say remove vendor fees? I'm just wondering. Although I think something like the first million free (or XXX number ) would go a long way to making things much better. I'm not interested in moving to another shard to fit your play style. When you say move to a "higher population" shard you mean Atlantic or to a lesser degree Great Lakes. All the rest of the shards are pretty much in the same boat. *You people* (lol) from Great lakes and Atlantic have NO idea what I'm talking about. YOUR already on a populated shard where pretty much the whole game goes to to buy basic necessities. Great Lakes ain't Atlantic but it's clearly #2 in population. I never had a problem on Great lakes getting anything I wanted. You people who play Great Lakes have NO idea what your talking about. I know cause I have 2 houses on Great Lakes. Fact is when Broadsword finally admits they need to get a grip on this situation you will find the current under populated shards will become far less un-populated.

I like playing shards where people are civil to each other Where who you are matters and everyone knows exactly what kind of player you are. I visit Atlantic to go shopping and I'm ready to pull my hair out before I can escape the place back home. Often the chat is vulgar, insulting, and plain old annoying. Pop my castle down in Atlantic somewhere and I'll consider it, I suppose I could hang out in an unused chat channel Telling everyone to move to Great Lakes (your shard) or Atlantic is about the lamest idea I could think of to fix a MAJOR GAME BREAKING issue with the current system. Hey I can fix the gold duping problem! Anything over ten million gold in all your accounts bank will be deleted! lol

PS The Great Lakes part of this is aimed at MalagAste. Vermin what is your main shard? :)

Well that's pretty much the most hogwash I've read in one post in a pretty long time. Where did *I* say remove vendor fees? I'm just wondering. Although I think something like the first million free (or XXX number ) would go a long way to making things much better. I'm not interested in moving to another shard to fit your play style. When you say move to a "higher population" shard you mean Atlantic or to a lesser degree Great Lakes. All the rest of the shards are pretty much in the same boat. *You people* (lol) from Great lakes and Atlantic have NO idea what I'm talking about. YOUR already on a populated shard where pretty much the whole game goes to to buy basic necessities. Great Lakes ain't Atlantic but it's clearly #2 in population. I never had a problem on Great lakes getting anything I wanted. You people who play Great Lakes have NO idea what your talking about. I know cause I have 2 houses on Great Lakes. Fact is when Broadsword finally admits they need to get a grip on this situation you will find the current under populated shards will become far less un-populated.

I like playing shards where people are civil to each other Where who you are matters and everyone knows exactly what kind of player you are. I visit Atlantic to go shopping and I'm ready to pull my hair out before I can escape the place back home. Often the chat is vulgar, insulting, and plain old annoying. Pop my castle down in Atlantic somewhere and I'll consider it, I suppose I could hang out in an unused chat channel Telling everyone to move to Great Lakes (your shard) or Atlantic is about the lamest idea I could think of to fix a MAJOR GAME BREAKING issue with the current system. Hey I can fix the gold duping problem! Anything over ten million gold in all your accounts bank will be deleted! lol

PS The Great Lakes part of this is aimed at MalagAste. Vermin what is your main shard? :)

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Get off your "I'm from a non-Atlantic shard and I know better" high horse. It's BS. No one forces you to play your shard and no one is forcing you to move to another shard.

People on ATL are civil to each other and who you are on Atlantic matters as well. Stop playing the victim card and trying to act like Mr. Rogers. Just because we have a large enough population that we don't know ever single player on the shard doesn't mean we don't know many people. If you want to sit all alone on your shard as the King of your personal castle, then that's your own perogative but shove off with the anti-Atlantic nonsense.

You want to pull your hair out going shopping on Atlantic? Cut the crap - it's not that bad. Oh you witnessed some vulgarity in gen-chat? Welcome to UO. Change channel or block the people who are being vulgar. Problem solved. Gen chat doesn't represent even 1% of the UO community on larger shards.

"MAJOR GAME BREAKING ISSUE" - the problem with that statement is that people here on Stratics claim EVERYTHING is a major game breaking issue contributing to the down fall of this game. It's like the boy who cried wolf around here on a regular basis.

Get off your "I'm from a non-Atlantic shard and I know better" high horse. It's BS. No one forces you to play your shard and no one is forcing you to move to another shard.

People on ATL are civil to each other and who you are on Atlantic matters as well. Stop playing the victim card and trying to act like Mr. Rogers. Just because we have a large enough population that we don't know ever single player on the shard doesn't mean we don't know many people. If you want to sit all alone on your shard as the King of your personal castle, then that's your own perogative but shove off with the anti-Atlantic nonsense.

You want to pull your hair out going shopping on Atlantic? Cut the crap - it's not that bad. Oh you witnessed some vulgarity in gen-chat? Welcome to UO. Change channel or block the people who are being vulgar. Problem solved. Gen chat doesn't represent even 1% of the UO community on larger shards.

"MAJOR GAME BREAKING ISSUE" - the problem with that statement is that people here on Stratics claim EVERYTHING is a major game breaking issue contributing to the down fall of this game. It's like the boy who cried wolf around here on a regular basis.

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Your a trip. It was suggested I move, I responded. So you responding to me talking about trash talking on Atlantic by calling me names? Like Mr's Rodgers? lol Anyone can log into Atlantic and listen to the ROC breaking chat. I've never ever used the term "MAJOR GAME BREAKING ISSUE" before. lol I don't even think I've use the term "game breaking". This is total nonsense. Some of us are trying to save this game while other just like to see the world burn!

PS I thought Stratics had a new policy on name calling and such? If not I'd love to know the "gloves are off". I'd like that very much

Get off your "I'm from a non-Atlantic shard and I know better" high horse. It's BS. No one forces you to play your shard and no one is forcing you to move to another shard.

People on ATL are civil to each other and who you are on Atlantic matters as well. Stop playing the victim card and trying to act like Mr. Rogers. Just because we have a large enough population that we don't know ever single player on the shard doesn't mean we don't know many people. If you want to sit all alone on your shard as the King of your personal castle, then that's your own perogative but shove off with the anti-Atlantic nonsense.

You want to pull your hair out going shopping on Atlantic? Cut the crap - it's not that bad. Oh you witnessed some vulgarity in gen-chat? Welcome to UO. Change channel or block the people who are being vulgar. Problem solved. Gen chat doesn't represent even 1% of the UO community on larger shards.

"MAJOR GAME BREAKING ISSUE" - the problem with that statement is that people here on Stratics claim EVERYTHING is a major game breaking issue contributing to the down fall of this game. It's like the boy who cried wolf around here on a regular basis.

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Also these are other FACTS and not your personal opinion... I didn't notice the term "Welcome to UO!" in there

Disruptive Behavior:

Be aware that in addition to the Verbal Harassment policy there is also a separate Disruptive Behavior policy. Disruptive Behavior applies to the use of Vulgarity, Racism, and Objectionable Content in public chat channels such as the General channel. Unlike Verbal Harassment you do not need to ask players to stop or take any other additional steps prior to reporting this behavior. Unlike the default channels we do not tolerate the use of profanity in public chat channels so for Disruptive Behavior you may simply witness a player using vulgarity a few times in a public channel and skip straight to reporting them. For rather obvious reasons this means you should avoid responding to such players with more vulgarity in those same public chat channels lest you both end up in jail.

Your a trip. It was suggested I move, I responded. So you responding to me talking about trash talking on Atlantic by calling me names? Like Mr's Rodgers? lol Anyone can log into Atlantic and listen to the ROC breaking chat. I've never ever used the term "MAJOR GAME BREAKING ISSUE" before. lol I don't even think I've use the term "game breaking". This is total nonsense. Some of us are trying to save this game while other just like to see the world burn!

PS I thought Stratics had a new policy on name calling and such? If not I'd love to know the "gloves are off". I'd like that very much

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You used the term in your very last post. However, if you re-read what I said, it was a general statement about 'people here on Stratics' claiming everything is an immediate emergency/game breaking issue, often calling for developer intervention - not you in particular. But now this is just semantics...

Name calling... really? Are you that butt-hurt by my referral to Mr. Rogers? Pretty sure that isn't "name-calling", but you proved my point about you trying to play the role of the victim.

Also these are other FACTS and not your personal opinion... I didn't notice the term "Welcome to UO!" in there

Disruptive Behavior:

Be aware that in addition to the Verbal Harassment policy there is also a separate Disruptive Behavior policy. Disruptive Behavior applies to the use of Vulgarity, Racism, and Objectionable Content in public chat channels such as the General channel. Unlike Verbal Harassment you do not need to ask players to stop or take any other additional steps prior to reporting this behavior. Unlike the default channels we do not tolerate the use of profanity in public chat channels so for Disruptive Behavior you may simply witness a player using vulgarity a few times in a public channel and skip straight to reporting them. For rather obvious reasons this means you should avoid responding to such players with more vulgarity in those same public chat channels lest you both end up in jail.

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BFD. It's well known there isn't much enforcement gen-chat rules. I'm not condoning it, just telling you to get over it.

But now this is getting off-topic... create another thread if you want to debate those things.

GovernorStratics VeteranAlumni

*yawns*
I know, Merlin, I know...you're tired of hearing the same ole same ole. But some of us are tired of dealing with the same ole same ole. Vendor fees could be fixed, storage isnt an issue with it. Back when we actually had loads of players, yeah server space might have been a problem. I played then too, ya know. Anyone talking about server loads now, with our current population, is gonna be and should be laughed at. Does it really effect your gameplay, or anyone else's, if someone *did* store 125 items on a vendor instead of in a crate? I really don't know how it would. I don't see vendors in despise, at Parox, Exodus, any of the places I play. Guess I'm just not in the right areas. If this qty is a problem, then something should be done about all that free storage of bods too. Make em price em or lose em, and make fees come out of everything in that bod book, cause free bod storage effects my gameplay just like no vendor fees effects yours. We really really really need the gold sink!!

Let's get back on topic here and not let this devolve to shard-bashing or hostility. It IS possible to discuss differences in shards without dismissing whole shards worth of people or making it personal.

I do think that vendor fees are a greater hindrance for lower population shards than for higher population shards, as well as for lower-end items and new/returning player items. Stocking a vendor with low end items that up-and-coming players might use ends up pure charity since vendor fees can and do eat the entirety of the price and then some depending on how long they stay on the vendor... which again, on lower population shards can be a goodly while. Meanwhile, the very high-ticket items often dodge the vendor fee entirely by using BOD books for payment.

I'm not sure what an ideal solution would be, though. Vendors used for BOD storage are annoying enough; I can't imagine vendor browsing being a thing anymore though if people could use vendors for straight storage--and I don't think a vendor, which is intended to sell things, should be used as extra storage.

Maybe there could be two kinds of vendor: one like we have now that charges the daily fee, and another that charges a percentage only when the item is sold but on which items count against the house item count. Then people could choose, but not abuse, depending on which would serve their situation/shard population/item type better.

GovernorStratics VeteranAlumni

I proposed that idea a long time ago, and got booed off the stage...but yes, if, instead of a daily fee, vendor fees charged a reasonable commission for the sale instead of ongoing everlasting fees, we *could* load them with lower end low profit items and not worry about how long they sat, because we would know what the total cost would be and could figure it into the price structure.

I proposed that idea a long time ago, and got booed off the stage...but yes, if, instead of a daily fee, vendor fees charged a reasonable commission for the sale instead of ongoing everlasting fees, we *could* load them with lower end low profit items and not worry about how long they sat, because we would know what the total cost would be and could figure it into the price structure.

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The tradeoff would have to be that it would count against house storage. Otherwise it would just be free extra storage.

Well that's pretty much the most hogwash I've read in one post in a pretty long time. Where did *I* say remove vendor fees? I'm just wondering. Although I think something like the first million free (or XXX number ) would go a long way to making things much better. I'm not interested in moving to another shard to fit your play style. When you say move to a "higher population" shard you mean Atlantic or to a lesser degree Great Lakes. All the rest of the shards are pretty much in the same boat. *You people* (lol) from Great lakes and Atlantic have NO idea what I'm talking about. YOUR already on a populated shard where pretty much the whole game goes to to buy basic necessities. Great Lakes ain't Atlantic but it's clearly #2 in population. I never had a problem on Great lakes getting anything I wanted. You people who play Great Lakes have NO idea what your talking about. I know cause I have 2 houses on Great Lakes. Fact is when Broadsword finally admits they need to get a grip on this situation you will find the current under populated shards will become far less un-populated.

I like playing shards where people are civil to each other Where who you are matters and everyone knows exactly what kind of player you are. I visit Atlantic to go shopping and I'm ready to pull my hair out before I can escape the place back home. Often the chat is vulgar, insulting, and plain old annoying. Pop my castle down in Atlantic somewhere and I'll consider it, I suppose I could hang out in an unused chat channel Telling everyone to move to Great Lakes (your shard) or Atlantic is about the lamest idea I could think of to fix a MAJOR GAME BREAKING issue with the current system. Hey I can fix the gold duping problem! Anything over ten million gold in all your accounts bank will be deleted! lol

PS The Great Lakes part of this is aimed at MalagAste. Vermin what is your main shard? :)

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I play Oceania. Which ever shard you are on almost certainly has a higher population and more vendors than mine. And again, you miss the point. Many people don't find the lack of vendors to be "ruining our shards". Sure, we would like them to be more viable, but if it was a game ruining experience we would move. It is not something we are shackled to.

*yawns*
I know, Merlin, I know...you're tired of hearing the same ole same ole. But some of us are tired of dealing with the same ole same ole. Vendor fees could be fixed, storage isnt an issue with it. Back when we actually had loads of players, yeah server space might have been a problem. I played then too, ya know. Anyone talking about server loads now, with our current population, is gonna be and should be laughed at. Does it really effect your gameplay, or anyone else's, if someone *did* store 125 items on a vendor instead of in a crate? I really don't know how it would. I don't see vendors in despise, at Parox, Exodus, any of the places I play. Guess I'm just not in the right areas. If this qty is a problem, then something should be done about all that free storage of bods too. Make em price em or lose em, and make fees come out of everything in that bod book, cause free bod storage effects my gameplay just like no vendor fees effects yours. We really really really need the gold sink!!

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It doesn't affect game play (other than potentially flooding the vendor search with items that aren't viable options to buy). It might even make game play better, by removing some housing from the land. It probably won't affect server space or server load much.

It is a far bigger issue than that. It affects UO's bottom-line. If you allow massive amounts of storage on vendors, people will close storage/housing accounts. People will stop buying the "increased storage" add-on. UO will make less money. UO isn't a charity and it shouldn't be, so it doesn't make a lot of sense for Broadsword to even contemplate free vendor fees, UNLESS the affected vendors count against housing storage caps.

So allowing the option of paying the current fee OR the vendor counting against the storage cap would be a suitable compromise. If high fees are crippling you, use a bit of storage cap to negate them. If your items are quick selling, then pay the fees.

Removing housing... cancelling subscriptions... less revenue for the game... not sure how this is a good thing.

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Personally, I find the custom UO houses quite garish and much prefer exploring areas without housing (and I do often just explore at random), so from a strictly selfish gameplay point of view I prefer less housing.

But I agree 100% that if that came with a loss of subscriptions and less revenue for the game (which it inevitably would), then it would be a bad thing. Which is why I think fee-less vendors without a subsequent loss of storage space makes no sense for the game.

I play Oceania. Which ever shard you are on almost certainly has a higher population and more vendors than mine. And again, you miss the point. Many people don't find the lack of vendors to be "ruining our shards". Sure, we would like them to be more viable, but if it was a game ruining experience we would move. It is not something we are shackled to.

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I gotta admit. I was on Oceania and your vendor situation is worse than Legends. One plays a shard for various reasons. The vendor situation is one factor. But it's a very serious factor that can easily be addressed. If they can create a crazy wild system just so someone can't dupe checks they could easily tweak vendors to make them functional on shards besides Atlantic. Everyone... just visit any shard besides Great Lakes and Atlantic and look for some decent jewels, armor, toss a not so rare kinda thing into the mix, see what you come up with. Search for something you buy regularly like black plant dye or something. People just sit on these items cause there's no money in vendoring them. This topic comes back and back and back. I didn't start this thread. It keeps coming back because every time we need something on the other shards we're left empty. It's a straw that drops on the camel's back one at a time till one day one just gets totally sick of it. Most of the posters that are against this idea have never had to deal with it. When I played Great Lakes regularly I never dealt with this. If I didn't see it one week I'd see it the next. If something didn't sell I'd drop the price a little and it was gone (but not 50 to 75 percent less of what one would get on Great Lakes and *still* not have it sell). On the other shards you may never see what it is your looking for. If you play Atlantic or Great Lakes you have never experienced this and *honestly* have no idea. Give everyone shard shields, make the first million free of cost, charge a percentage on sold items only, lower the over all percentage, whatever. Just do *something*. This issue will never go away cause it effects us daily. Sorry, no one liners on this post. I like to joke around as most know, but not with this issue. In the *real world* (Which I pretty much hate bringing into games) the economy, supply and demand, business are pretty much governments number one issue. We've waited long enough. The duping is over! The less than 1% that created this economy mess are being dealt with. The need for back breaking gold sinks shouldn't be as necessary as they were in the past. If they feel major gold sinks are still necessary then get creative in productive ways. Have a rare of the month seller who sells purple cats one month and green goats of insane wealth the next month or something for crazy money, lol.

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