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Timing the cut

What technique do you use for knowing when to make the cut between the middle run (drinkable) and tails ? (and what sort of still is it - pot or reflux & what

Message 1 of 6
, Aug 2, 2000

What technique do you use for knowing when to make the cut between the
middle run (drinkable) and tails ? (and what sort of still is it - pot or
reflux & what are you trying to make ?)

* When you can first smell them (the tails) ?
* When it feels oily or you can see an oil glint/sheen ?
* Measure the volume you've collected ?
* Measure the % alcohol & stop when below XX % ?
* Stop when it won't burn anymore ?

Any advice on what's best / what doesn't work ?
What's the trick for getting it right for whisky via a pot still ?

I'm running a small/poor reflux still & am after neutral alcohol; I measure
the % alcohol. I stop collecting for consumption when it gets below about
50%, but continue to collect until at about 25% & keep these "almost tails"
to add back in to the next wash.

Hi Tony Pete here, havnt seen you guys for a while. The general rule of thumb to quit distilling ( with any still ) is when the temp reaches approx 92- 93c.

Message 2 of 6
, Aug 2, 2000

Hi Tony Pete here, havnt seen you guys for a while. The general rule of
thumb to quit distilling ( with any still ) is when the temp reaches approx
92- 93c. Usually by this stage you have dragged most of the available
alcohol from the wash. Some of you guys with the degrees will have a formula
to asertain how much to take off for a given volume of wash at a given %age.
Also, the tails have a distinctive smell, and it is best to stop collecting
your drinking alcohol at this stage, and yes you can collect more tails, but
rather than putting them in the next brew, the latest i have is that it is
best to keep the tails until you have sufficient to fill your still again,
and do a brew of tails. You will have to measure the strength of the tails,
and work on taking a %age of that content by volume, usually about 70% of
the available alcohol.Hope this is helpful.
Regards Pete

What technique do you use for knowing when to make the cut between the
middle run (drinkable) and tails ? (and what sort of still is it - pot or
reflux & what are you trying to make ?)

* When you can first smell them (the tails) ?
* When it feels oily or you can see an oil glint/sheen ?
* Measure the volume you've collected ?
* Measure the % alcohol & stop when below XX % ?
* Stop when it won't burn anymore ?

Any advice on what's best / what doesn't work ?
What's the trick for getting it right for whisky via a pot still ?

I'm running a small/poor reflux still & am after neutral alcohol; I measure
the % alcohol. I stop collecting for consumption when it gets below about
50%, but continue to collect until at about 25% & keep these "almost tails"
to add back in to the next wash.

Tony - with my Stillmaker type reflux still, I notice that the temperature holds steady until near the end of a cut. I should note that I use a digital

Message 3 of 6
, Aug 2, 2000

Tony - with my Stillmaker type reflux still, I notice that the
temperature holds steady until near the end of a cut. I should note
that I use a digital thermometer that registers to the nearest 1/10th
of a degree fahrenheit and refreshes itself every 10 seconds.

For example, near the end of the time the foreshots are exhausted and
the ethanol begins running, the temp will fluctuate dramatically
after having held rock steady until then. The same seems to happen
at the end of the ethanol run. When I see the temp starting to get
squirrely, I stop the run. Maybe I leave a bit of usable ethanol in
the wash, but it's worth knowing the stuff I collect is pure! :)
Regards!
Tar
--- In Distillers@egroups.com, "Ackland, Tony (CALNZAS)"
<Tony.Ackland@c...> wrote:

> What technique do you use for knowing when to make the cut between

the

> middle run (drinkable) and tails ? (and what sort of still is it -

pot or

> reflux & what are you trying to make ?)
>
> * When you can first smell them (the tails) ?
> * When it feels oily or you can see an oil glint/sheen ?
> * Measure the volume you've collected ?
> * Measure the % alcohol & stop when below XX % ?
> * Stop when it won't burn anymore ?
>
> Any advice on what's best / what doesn't work ?
> What's the trick for getting it right for whisky via a pot still ?
>
> I'm running a small/poor reflux still & am after neutral alcohol; I

What technique do you use for knowing when
to make the cut between themiddle run (drinkable) and tails ? (and what sort of still is it - pot orreflux & what are you trying to make ?)

* When you can first smell them (the tails) ?* When it feels oily or you can see an oil glint/sheen ?* Measure the volume you've collected ?* Measure the % alcohol & stop when below XX % ?* Stop when it won't burn anymore ?

Any advice on what's best / what doesn't work ?What's the trick for getting it right for whisky via a pot still ?

I'm running a small/poor reflux still & am after neutral alcohol; I
measurethe % alcohol. I stop collecting for consumption when it gets below
about50%, but continue to collect until at about 25% & keep these "almost
tails"to add back in to the next wash.

At
the moment I’m trying to make wodka with a modified stillmaker still. I have
just returned from the Czech Republic, where I have bought a bottle of Jelinek
wodka which I am using as a reference w.r.t. taste and smell.

To make it
easier to achieve maximum purity I strip the beer first and I remove the first
100 ml to be sure the methanol is out. I stop distilling when the temperature
reaches 95 Celsius regardless of the %.

The
low wines I have now are approx. 55% and I dilute this to 40% max. for the
fractioning distillation. I slowly bring the low wines to the boil and keep the
cooling water running at a high rate for maximum reflux at the top of the
column. After a while I tune the cooling water until I get a steady drip from
the condenser outlet; I keep the boiler at the lowest boiling rate possible.

Every 100
ml I check the % and I put a few ml in a noser (glass) and I add the same
amount of water; as soon as I detect a distinct smell of wet cardboard, I know
I have to stop collecting the middle cut; the alcohol that comes after this
point (not much if the fractioning was going well) is collected, and after a series of distillations I fill the
boiler with these faints to collect the remaining ethanol. When checking the
alcohol for wet cardboard smell, it is important to dilute the alcohol first to
30-40%, because the undiluted alcohol will not release the smell, and you will
notice it too late when you are preparing your wodka, liqueur etc...

You
will notice, that the off smell will start to occur as soon as the temperature in
the top of the column starts tending to rise above 78,5 celsius or the drip
from the outlet starts to diminish and you need to increase the heat to keep
the boiler going. Also the % goes down to less than say 92%. Don’t waste your
wodka now by trying to collect that little bit more !!! After a few runs, you’ll
get the hang of it; there is nothing better than experience.

Hope
this is useful to you,

Regards,
Rob

Dick

Hi to the group, I m currently trying out the Alcotec 8 turbo yeast (supplied by Ray@Moonshine Supplies) for the 1st time to ferment 2 x 25l of wash but have

Message 5 of 6
, Aug 10, 2000

Hi to the group,
I'm currently trying out the Alcotec 8 turbo yeast (supplied by
Ray@Moonshine Supplies) for the 1st time to ferment 2 x 25l of wash but
have hit a couple of (I hope) minor problems:

1) Following instructions the 1st batch fermented down from a starting gravity
of 1130 to 992 in about 5 days but seemed very reluctant to clear. I
decanted into 1 gal demi-johns and after some experimentation got most of
them to clear to crystal clarity using bentonite (montmorillonite clay) but a
couple have remained hazy despite the bentonite clearing down a lot of
rubbish & dead yeast.

Q. As I intend to strip the wash in a pot still configuration and then reflux am I
worrying unnecessarily about the remaining light haze ?

2) The 2nd 25l batch was again made up following instructions but has
seemed far more slower a fermentation. It has taken over 10 days to ferment
down from 1130 to 1020 and has now virtually stopped. (Due to vagaries of
the Scottish summer - don't believe everything you saw during the recent
Open Golf - I've been using heating pads to keep both fermenting washes
@ 23°C.)

Q. How far down do turbo yeasts usually ferment ? Has my fermentation
stuck and/or run out of nutrient ? If it was beer or wine I would kick it back
into action by adding some more nutrient & a strongly fermenting yeast
solution but turbo yeast is already a strong, alcohol tolerant yeast.

Anyone any suggestions or experience of similar problems ?
--
Dick

Pete Sayers

Hi Dick, Pete here from NZ. I have been using the turbo 8 and its cousins for several years now and yes you problems are only minor. Firstly, the cloudiness

Message 6 of 6
, Aug 10, 2000

Hi Dick, Pete here from NZ. I have been using the turbo 8 and its cousins
for several years now and yes you problems are only minor. Firstly, the
cloudiness will settle out given enough time, the simplest way to clear the
wash is to decant( rack) it off into a suitable sized container, and leave
it to get cold. It may take a few days, depending on the ambient temp, but
it will clear quite well. It never seems to clear completely, however this
is not as critical, as most of the cloudiness will dissappear during
distilation, and carbon filtering. Secondly, the most common mistake people
make when using the turbo 8, is to add the yeast/nutrients when the temp of
the sugar/ water solution is too high. Because the turbo 8 is so active it
tends to add anything upto 5-8C degrees of it's own temp. So if you always
remember to add the yeast when the temp is only about 20-22C.What happens is
the temp rises to over 28-30C and the yeast races, gets "tired" and sinks to
the bottom believeing it's job is done, leaving less yeast to complete the
job, consequently fermentation will take much longer.Lastly most of the time
a turbo will ferment down to 985-990 quite readily. Keep at it Dick.
regards Pete at Brewers Barn

Hi to the group,
I'm currently trying out the Alcotec 8 turbo yeast (supplied by
Ray@Moonshine Supplies) for the 1st time to ferment 2 x 25l of wash but
have hit a couple of (I hope) minor problems:

1) Following instructions the 1st batch fermented down from a starting
gravity
of 1130 to 992 in about 5 days but seemed very reluctant to clear. I
decanted into 1 gal demi-johns and after some experimentation got most of
them to clear to crystal clarity using bentonite (montmorillonite clay) but
a
couple have remained hazy despite the bentonite clearing down a lot of
rubbish & dead yeast.

Q. As I intend to strip the wash in a pot still configuration and then
reflux am I
worrying unnecessarily about the remaining light haze ?

2) The 2nd 25l batch was again made up following instructions but has
seemed far more slower a fermentation. It has taken over 10 days to ferment
down from 1130 to 1020 and has now virtually stopped. (Due to vagaries of
the Scottish summer - don't believe everything you saw during the recent
Open Golf - I've been using heating pads to keep both fermenting washes
@ 23°C.)

Q. How far down do turbo yeasts usually ferment ? Has my fermentation
stuck and/or run out of nutrient ? If it was beer or wine I would kick it
back
into action by adding some more nutrient & a strongly fermenting yeast
solution but turbo yeast is already a strong, alcohol tolerant yeast.

Anyone any suggestions or experience of similar problems ?
--
Dick

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