Things just keep getting worse with my husband and though I started going to al anon, I can't stop reacting to his behavior. I think I could handle just the drinking, but the women and infidelity is killing me. I just saw texts on his phone to 10 different women who is "seeing"/fucking. He's read up to page 37 of Victims No More and won't go to therapy because he takes meds (not regularly as he should) from a shrink and thinks that is getting help.I've read all the books. I've also read SOOO many posts from wives on here and it seems that the common thread of couples who have made it through the other side is that their husbands didn't want to lose the marriage and finally got help.I just can't believe things will get better, even if i focus on myself and 15 month old baby, and continue support groups. He was the kindest, sweetest, most faithful man who was so in love in with me and we had a beautiful marriage for almost 5 years. I knew about his abuse but I never knew it could manifest itself like this. I never knew it could be this bad. And I'm making things worse by getting so angry and full of rage when I discovered the latest women and crazy lies. He even lied to them all, saying he was an architect going to Dubai for a month.Does he hate me and run from me because he feels like a failure and I know the truth? I know Al Anon says not to make any major decisions for the first 6 months of recovery but it is really hard not to run to a divorce lawyer and try to make a new life for me and my baby. Can anyone tell me why I shouldn't give up hope?

He's read up to page 37 of Victims No More and won't go to therapy because he takes meds (not regularly as he should) from a shrink and thinks that is getting help.

I've also read SOOO many posts from wives on here and it seems that the common thread of couples who have made it through the other side is that their husbands didn't want to lose the marriage and finally got help.

The problem with getting a little better is that it seems to be enough. I'm dealing with the same problem now. I am so much better than I was a year ago. Almost back to "normal". The problem is that normal kind of sucked for me. But I was used to it and I actually can stay here for the rest of my life. So do I really want to start therapy to deal with the CSA and other issues? (I have tried to get into a male CSA program for the last 9 months and finally have my first session this week, but I badly needed it then)

Yes he feels better and probably can live with himself the way he is right now. And he probably feels that you will put up with it. You have until now so why should you not?

There are a number of problems but nobody wants risk a bad outcome if you force the situation. If you make it a serious ultimatum. When you are at that stage you are ready to walk and why should you put up with having to deal with the possible recovery shit. By this time it is almost, if not, already too late.

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Does he hate me and run from me because he feels like a failure and I know the truth?Can anyone tell me why I shouldn't give up hope?

I don't know. He might still have been doing these things if you didn't know. So while you may have nothing to do with it that doesn't mean that he doesn't think that you do.

I don't have anyone so I have not done those kind of things. My issues revolved around my work and a few people there. At the worst point my thinking was pretty screwed up. And I knew it. There was logic, and twisted logic. With emotions thrown in. People I had previously trusted I no longer did. But I knew enough that I couldn't trust my thinking either and that stopped me from quitting, even though those thoughts were with me quite often.

So in my opinion (remember how much you are paying for it) what a situation like this needs is an ultimatum. And it has to be clear what the new rules will be. What will be tolerated and what won't. And what happens when they are broken. But there is a huge risk here because you are not dealing with a fully rational person.

My advice, sorry its not easy. LeaveHe has not hit rock bottom yet and there is no reason why he should drag you and your child down with him. Leave and start a life of your own. His happiness and health are not your problem or fault. There is no good reason why you should suffer.

Its a bold and brave move I hope you can do it.

Heal well Martin

_________________________Matrix Men South Africa Survivors Supporting Each otherMatrix Men Blog

Does he hate me and run from me because he feels like a failure and I know the truth? I know Al Anon says not to make any major decisions for the first 6 months of recovery but it is really hard not to run to a divorce lawyer and try to make a new life for me and my baby. Can anyone tell me why I shouldn't give up hope?

He is in the throes of acting out, remaininghopeful. He is trying to decide if the feelings that were forced upon him in the sexual abuse is what he wants to live or if he wants to live the life he sought when he began and maintained a relationship with you and had a child. He is in chaos. Male survivors do not feel like they have a choice, if you leave, then you have left, it was nothing they could have done. It was not our choice to be abused, it is not in our control now.

The advice to create and maintain personal boundaries, ultimatums and to keep you and your child safe, that is stellar advice. The quicker you leave, the quicker you may come back. When you build boundaries, you are teaching you and possibly him that there is a path he can choose, decisions he can make to help himself in a healthy way. Importantly, you teach you that your self respect and comfort are equally important, you are building your self esteem. Most importantly, your 15 month old child should never hear the parents rage, be bitter or worse, the child will take that inside of him/her and feel it is their fault. When you create personal boundaries, you give all of you a chance for a good future.

Do not take his actions personally, the marital bonds are not as prominent in his mind as when he was abused, and those boundaries were smashed through. He cannot distinguish between the overwhelming controls of the abuse and his thoughts to make the marriage and parenting his one priority. Imagine drowning, when the air in the lungs is depleted, the body will override the reason and demand the action of taking in breath, even though the mind knows when that happens, water will be taken into the lungs. He is acting on the feelings that override reason.

Al Anon is right, do not make any decisions, but PLAN, PLAN, PLAN. Create a safe environment, what you want, with or without him and work towards it. Step One cannot be that he stops cheating on you, Step One may be continuing to get support and rewarding yourself for the progress you are making. Step Two can be about making sure you are the mother and wife you want to be regardless of his activity. Step Three might begin the process of validating your perception of marital bonds with speaking to him about his acting out, and laying down ground rules with ultimatums, "if he does this, you will have no choice but to..." These are just examples, but I have found that there is hope in planning, and where there is hope dear supporter, there is courage.

SamV, thank you. I guess I have problems establishing boundaries besides "if you continue to sleep with other women, we're done." He is leaving, he is planning to move out. He says so that he can work on himself and heal from the abuse, but it could also mean being able to act out without anyone knowing (i.e. then he thinks he's not hurting me...). There's nothing I can do. I can't force him to get help. He needs to want to get help...I just didn't really know what was happening at first and he pushed me to fights and then justified that I was the one who didn't love him anymore or didn't want the marriage anymore. And I'm the critical one and the one who makes him feel bad and am abusive in my angry words to him. And everyone else loves him and makes him feel great. Yes, I've been really angry. And yes, I have said hurtful things. And unfortunately, one of the really bad fights was in front of our baby. It makes me sick and sad to think of him with all of these women and I probably still could forgive him, though I sometime feel I hate him. I know I don't hate him. I love him. I hate the abuse and what it's done to him.My biggest dilemma is that I unfortunately feel a bit responsible to help him out financially when he leaves since he is a student and I've been supporting the family and he has nothing...Of course, me cutting him off would definitely help him "reach bottom" quickly but that would be me controlling the situation and acting out my codependency illness.And I can't stop wanting to hack into his phone that he keeps password protected and hides all of his women and bad behavior. And i know that's just me obsessing and torturing myself. But it complete torture. Sometimes I think a divorce will end the torture. Then I will no illusions about a better future or illusions about him loving me and then betraying me. I just want it to stop.I know it's up to me to find how to be happy without him and focus on my child and my work. It's just so hard that we can't have a clean separation. That we not only have to be in contact for our child, but he also will rely on me somewhat. And the saddest thing, is that when all of the advice is to be strong and set boundaries, I don't even know what those boundaries are besides ending things, like I said in the beginning of this message. Anymore advice is greatly appreciated. Would it help me to see a therapist who specializes in CSA even if he won't? My therapist is good but doesn't really understand and has been telling me to make him leave so I stop enabling his behavior. But I don't think kicking him out is the answer. I've also tried and failed.

Remaining. I wish I had words to offer that would help but focus on your baby and yourself. We can only hope that he will hit a soft bottom and come back to his senses. I know it is a gamble but I am afraid option barrel is almost empty at this point. Good Luck and please stay in touch. Mike

I don't know how to use the message board so that it says who I am replying to?Anyway...I have a bigger dilemma I need help with. I haven't disclosed all of the current situation.When we were together and things were still good we had considered investing in an apartment in NYC because we didn't have enough saved to buy a home in a good neighborhood (nor probably ever will).When it seemed he just needed space and time away from me and wanted to be alone to "heal" and work on his past abuse, he convinced me that he should live in this one bedroom condo we found. It would be temporary - 6 months to a year - and he would be close by to be around for the baby and anything we needed. So he could concentrate on school and build his self esteem and have the money he would be paying in rent to go toward owning something he can give to his son in the future.While it would be completely depleting all of my savings and putting me in massive debt (200,000 mortgage), it actually seemed to make sense and we found a great place in a neighborhood that will only get better. He is not on the mortgage and he has no income. He is a full-time student who makes some money with an online shop. I can't afford to pay for two households as well as the baby's high daycare expenses and he promised he would do whatever it takes. He would never jeopardize us.In the months it's taken to close, he has spiraled, stays out all night, disappears, so many women, and this hook-up culture with his friends where they go to parties and bars to meet girls -- "working it" as one said in a text, or "thanks for handing me that one" from another. Drinking, drugs, sex, you name it.I know it all comes from his CSA and I still love him, but I can't believe a word he says and fear going through with this apartment would only enable his self-destructive behavior in a place where he thinks I won't know or isn't hurting me. But I will be responsible for this place, too. And I think I'd rather lose $20,000 downpayment than put my child's financial future in more jeopardy. In his mind, he thinks if he has his own space, he can work on his healing and stop this behavior and deal with his abuse. And feel good about investing in something for the baby's future. And work to build his self esteem. And I should give him a chance.He also has no place to go and no money, so the other threats are that he'll go back to his home country and never see the child again. Or he's attempted suicide (or lead me to believe) when I've tried kicking him out before and I really don't want to have the guilt of him killing himself nor what that would do to my son't future. And really, I just want a clean break with him. I don't want to be tied to anything with him but when we need to communicate about our child. I've decided not to run to a divorce lawyer and could even forgive him if he gets help.Believing this apartment will make things better, as he does, just isn't reality, though I desperately wish that was the case and have been clinging to that belief for months, too.I just don't know how to tell him without things getting really ugly. He will be desperate if he thinks I'm kicking him out to nothing. I'd be willing to let him stay in our place and find a new apartment for me and the baby. He could get a roommate and figure it out on his own. I really don't know what to do. Please help, anyone. It is really a shame as it is a great apartment and would be a wonderful investment if not for the fact that everything else is in chaos...

He's read up to page 37 of Victims No More and won't go to therapy because he takes meds (not regularly as he should) from a shrink and thinks that is getting help.

You and him go to his shrink (or marriage counselor/therapist) and you explain the situation. That he can't be trusted to heal by himself. The drugs, the lies, the women. That he must clean up his act now or you turf him from the condo, rent it out or sell it. (if I understand that part of it)

He can stay with you and look after your child while you work. You are not abandoning him. You are expecting him to pull his weight in the marriage. He can be the stay at home mom.

It doesn't matter that it comes from the CSA. He is the one that is responsible for his actions.

I think you have to give him two choices. Clean up your act or become the stay at home mom.

Thanks, Candu. He was the stay at home dad during the first 12 months a couple of days a week and I think that contributed to his feeling that I controlled everything and he was letting down his family (he also comes from a male-dominated culture).And unfortunately, it's a no-win situation with the shrink. I've called him before. The therapist he saw occasionally spoke to him, too. He stands by his prescription and believes my husband who tells him he's feeling great and that the medication is perfect...I will try to get him to go to another counselor with me. And you're right, my plan B is to turn around and sell the condo. Thanks.

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