Originally posted by TrueBrit
So you are saying, that it is absolutely fine, in your opinion, that people should squander thier intellectual resources? You think having a system in
place to ensure that a large number of people do just that, every single year is ok?

To the first question, yes. It is their resource to squander. They do not owe it to you, to me or to society to do anything with that resource. They
might owe it to themselves, but that is for them to decide. Who are we to demand that they live to serve us, which is the essence of your argument. I
think you should read a book called "Atlas Shrugged". Once you get past some of the painfully long monologues, it makes some excellent points.

To the second question... the answer depends on the context within which we look at the question.

In relation to univeristy expenses, we do not have that system in place. The person in the original article can receive an excellent education from
many places, not just Oxford. He wants Oxford not because of the quality of education (which can be equalled elsewhere) but for the benefit of the
"brand name". I can't say I blame him, of course. If he is genuinely brilliant enough that nowhere but Oxford is good enough (and again, Oxford is
good but not necessarily the best in all cases, it's mostly the name brand) there are scholarships to be had to help people like him. If he can't
get them then either (i) there were people with far greater academic ability who needed the chance, or (ii) he wasn't actually too poor to afford
going.

In relation to general education then yes, we do have that system in place. Not willingly, but it is there. The quality of the education you receive
will actually be determined by the parents of the children that attend your school. As a very general rule of thumb, if you live in an area where the
parents are more concerned with themselves than with being parents, or who consider school to be nothing more than state-sponsored childcare, then
their kids will be raised as little s**ts and this will come through at school, disrupting life for everyone and sucking the will to live (let alone
teach) from the staff. It only takes a few rough kids to stop a teacher from educating the majority who want to be there.

Oxford university is there for many reasons and education is only one of them. They do not exist for just anyone to get an education. They exist so
the wealthy can get educated and so look down on others not matter how clever or level of degree they have: a degree form oxford carries more weight
than a phd from other places. It carries more weight not because it is more difficult but because a certain class of person goes there.

Also remember Oxford is the launderette of choice of the wealthy corrupt. If you are a wealthy drug baron, dictator, russian mafia and want your child
to have a squeaky clean image. A respectability that would be unquestionable or seen as not quite right to question. What do you do? Send your child
to Oxford university. No one will care that their money came from crime, that they have relatives that are criminal mass murderers.

It is the same with private schools. The really successful criminals can send their kids to private schools and so give them a sheen of respectability
that they could not have. They are there for the rich.

Also remember Oxford is the launderette of choice of the wealthy corrupt. If you are a wealthy drug baron, dictator, russian mafia and want your child
to have a squeaky clean image.

It is the same with private schools. The really successful criminals can send their kids to private schools and so give them a sheen of respectability
that they could not have. They are there for the rich.

Originally posted by NarrowGate
Yes when I think Oxford that is what I see.

Well having lived and worked in Oxford, I can tell you that the University is a massive centre of research, education and excellence. If Oxford was
just a home for the children of the elite it would not be where it is now. It is in the interest of all successful academic institutions to take in
intelligent people.

People whine on about really good education without pausing to think that it is good.

Well having lived and worked in Oxford, I can tell you that the University is a massive centre of research, education and excellence. If Oxford was
just a home for the children of the elite it would not be where it is now. It is in the interest of all successful academic institutions to take in
intelligent people.

You say that oxford is an academic center of excellence and would not be where it is if it only took in children of the elite. That is not really
true. Those people who do research are not necessarily oxford students, and probably never where. Like all universities it employs large amount of
staff who were educated other places: even other countries. In truth those who study have little impact upon it's research. Also to answer the
question to the Amercan who stated sarcastically that children of mafia... that is what you see when you look at oxford. I would like to state that
british universities generally are a great launderette. America too. Do you really think that Oxford or Harvard worries if the wealthy able students
who come from other countries, come from families that made their money from drugs or crime? Why would they they did not mind the Kennedy's.
Certainly most of the Eastern super rich families started off selling drugs. Are they automatically barred from university? No because they have
money. University for a lot of people is about helping their family move up: by sending their sons or daughters to university. To others it is about
cleaning the image up and making respectable: by sending sons, daughters to elite universities.

And to even more it is to help the world. That gets twisted when they leave the university. When they get out in the world, they have to deal with
things that twist their point of view from what it originally was. A lot of the people at major universities are really good people.

Stop with the extreme attitude. It is unbalanced and not beneficial to have it set up in the way it is currently, but that doesn't mean you should
make it look evil.

Yes there probably have been some bad apples, as there are in every last organization on the planet. This is a school, people go for different
purposes I guess.

I never said Oxford University was evil. It just happens that this is the way things happen. People want there children to move up. What makes you
think rich immoral people are any different? Also as they have money and more to hide Elite universities are the perfect place for their children.
What makes you think they would turn down a privately educated person because they come from a criminal family? I would also like to point out that
Oxford University has many people who have gone on to commit fraud, become drug dealers go into various criminal activities, kill large amounts of
people. They want you to be elite. It does not matter how.

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