[Never before published photo of Shelly Miscavige courtesy of Claudio and Renata Lugli.]

One of the most intriguing mysteries of the Church of Scientology is the disappearance of Shelly Miscavige, wife of the church’s leader, David Miscavige. A frequent refrain heard from critics of the church is “Where’s Shelly?” — and that question is also central to the recent defection of Leah Remini, who began to break away from the church when she didn’t get a satisfactory answer.

We can now say that we have received new confirmation that Shelly Miscavige is living and working at Scientology’s super-secret CST headquarters near Lake Arrowhead in the mountains above Los Angeles, where she has been the entire time since she was sent there in late 2005 or early 2006.

We’re told that attempts to have Shelly visit her family have been futile, and when she was asked recently when she might see her family again, she answered, “There’s only one way,” with no further explanation.

We asked former church spokesman Mike Rinder how to interpret that. He said it seemed an obvious reference to Shelly’s only previous opportunity to leave the compound, when she was briefly allowed to attend the funeral of her father in the summer of 2007, and was accompanied by a church “handler” who never let Shelly out of her sight.

Another funeral in the family may be Shelly’s only opportunity to leave the confines of the CST compound.

Shelly, we’re told, has been conditioned to believe that she is at fault for her confinement, and that her job of working to preserve the works of L. Ron Hubbard is a worthwhile goal.

She may not believe that she needs to be “rescued” from her fate.

————–

In April, we published our most complete story yet about the events leading up to Shelly Miscavige vanishing from view. Now, Leah Remini’s defection has put Shelly into the news like never before, and we wanted to update what we know.

Michele “Shelly” Diane Barnett married David Miscavige on December 30, 1980. Both were members of Scientology’s “Sea Organization,” the corps of dedicated workers who sign billion-year contracts and promise to come back, lifetime after lifetime. Miscavige was only 20, but he was already beginning to lay the groundwork to take over Scientology after its founder, L. Ron Hubbard, had gone into hiding earlier that year. Hubbard died in 1986, and Miscavige was soon fully in control of the organization.

Shelly became known as a formidable executive in her own right. She could be harsh, in the Sea Org tradition, but next to her unpredictable and ferocious husband, she seemed kinder, and more patient. We’re told that the two always traveled together and worked together. They had no children, but in the Sea Org that was the way.

For much of the late 1990s and early 2000s, Scientology’s top management was preoccupied with the criminal investigation and civil litigation that resulted from the 1995 death of Lisa McPherson, a woman from Texas who had died at Scientology’s spiritual headquarters in Clearwater, Florida. After the criminal prosecution fell apart in 2000 and a legal settlement with McPherson’s family was reached in 2004, Miscavige seemed elated, but then he began to turn his focus onto his own top lieutenants.

Early in 2004, at Scientology’s International Base — a secretive, 500-acre compound about 90 miles east of Los Angeles, near the town of Hemet — Miscavige took his ideas about discipline to strange new lengths. A few dozen executives he wanted to punish were locked into a set of rooms that had been an office, and “The Hole” was born. Over the next several years, even more executives who had fallen from his favor were added to the bizarre and harsh office-prison, reaching about 100 total prisoners.

Scientology’s International Base near Hemet, California is also referred to as “Gold,” for Golden Era Productions, where Scientology’s films are made. The location of “The Hole” (2004-2009) is circled. After press reports about The Hole began to emerge, it was relocated and made less restrictive, as we explain in a previous article. Shelly Miscavige has never been a prisoner in “The Hole,” a common misconception.

Around that time, Miscavige also became obsessed with the base’s “Org Board.” It was a roster of jobs that Miscavige wanted filled, but for some reason his underlings could never fill out the empty slots in the roster to his satisfaction. People who worked there at the time tell us that Miscavige’s tirades about the org board were maddening and relentless.

Then, in 2005, Miscavige did something surprising — he traveled to nearby Los Angeles to work on a publishing project, and Shelly stayed behind at the base. People who worked at the base tell us it was the first time they remembered seeing the couple apart.

Shelly took advantage of her husband’s absence to fill in the org board that had proved such a headache. She also made progress on another project Miscavige had been promising to start by moving his belongings out of a set of buildings called the “Villas.” She moved his things into another set of rooms called “the G’s,” so the Villas could be renovated.

Also at this time, Mike Rinder came to the base after working with Miscavige in Los Angeles. He says he was immediately pulled aside by Shelly and taken to the back porch of the large RTC building on the base, which was more private than other areas. There, she asked him if her husband had been wearing his wedding ring when Rinder saw him. Rinder said he didn’t notice, but he tells us that at the time, he immediately realized that the marriage was in serious trouble.

“I knew that she was in deep shit. She was worried that he was going to abandon her,” he tells us.

When Miscavige returned from Los Angeles and found the org board filled and his belongings moved, he erupted. A week later — which was sometime late in 2005 or early in 2006, our sources tell us, Shelly vanished.

————–

In November 2006, several months after Shelly’s disappearance, Leah Remini traveled to Italy for the wedding of Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes. She was stunned to see that Miscavige, who was Cruise’s best man, was there without his wife. Remini asked about it, and was surprised when she was told her question was inappropriate. She asked Tommy Davis about it, and the son of Anne Archer who at that time was a church spokesman, told her, “You don’t fucking rank to ask about Shelly.”

As we reported earlier, Remini wrote up a “Knowledge Report” about that and other things she saw at the wedding that alarmed her, complaining about Miscavige, Cruise, Davis, spokeswoman Jessica Feshbach and others.

For daring to write up the leader of the church, Remini was ordered to go to “Flag,” the spiritual headquarters of Scientology in Clearwater, Florida. Thinking she was going to advance her case on the “Bridge,” instead she was subjected to three months of sec-checking — a brutal form of interrogation — and “The Truth Rundown,” an Orwellian practice of thought reform. As a result, she was convinced to rescind her reports about the wedding.

But she wasn’t done asking about Shelly. For years, Remini had sent Shelly Christmas gifts, and always got back gifts or thank-you notes from Shelly. But after 2006, even after she continued to send gifts, Remini never received anything in return.

Still determined to get an answer to her question about Shelly’s whereabouts, in 2011 Remini sent a letter to Shelly care of her old post at the Religious Technology Center (RTC), the controlling entity of Scientology. Our sources tell us that six months later, Remini was informed by church officials that they had never delivered it, and told her that what she had written was “inappropriate.” She wrote a second letter, and also mailed it.

At least three times, our sources tell us, Remini also threatened church officials that she would go to the police or the FBI if they did not produce Shelly — or her corpse.

————–

It was John Brousseau who first told us that Shelly was at the CST Headquarters. He is one of the last people to escape from the International Base near Hemet, having left it in 2010. He tells us that he personally saw that mail arriving for Shelly was put in a bin for letters that would be delivered to CST’s compound. We confirmed this with another base employee who also witnessed it. We have a third source who confirms that Shelly is still at the CST headquarters to this day.

The Church of Spiritual Technology is the most hush-hush unit of a secretive organization. We’ve talked to former church officials who worked in Scientology for decades and never knew anything about CST or where its facilities were.

CST has a very odd purpose. It’s one of the top three entities of Scientology, and it owns the copyrights of L. Ron Hubbard’s works. In order to preserve Hubbard’s legacy for future generations — and in order to ensure that his legacy survives a nuclear holocaust — CST’s job is to create underground vaults for storage. Such vaults have been built in New Mexico, Wyoming, and several in California. CST also owns a ranch in Creston, California which has no vault but was the place where Hubbard lived out his final few years. And CST has a headquarters compound on Rim of the World Highway near Lake Arrowhead, California. The compound goes by several different names, depending on which Scientologist you’re talking to — we’ve heard it called Twin Peaks (after a nearby hamlet), Rimforest (for another local village), Rim of the World, and Crestline (for yet another nearby town).

A map of Southern California showing the locations of Scientology’s administrative headquarters in downtown Los Angeles, the International Base 90 miles east near the town of Hemet (home to “The Hole”), and CST’s secretive headquarters near Lake Arrowhead to the north, where Shelly Miscavige is believed to be living and working.

Although it seems to have several different names, almost no Scientologists have ever been there. We did a lengthy piece about the only former CST employee who seems to have done a press interview, Dylan Gill. He worked there and at CST’s vault in New Mexico, Trementina Base. (Trementina is known for its giant CST logo carved into the desert which is visible from aircraft. While some jokingly refer to this as a landing strip for aliens, Gill told us that it was actually meant to guide L. Ron Hubbard’s “thetan” — immortal spirit — upon its return to earth. Similar logos can also be seen at the Creston Ranch and the vault near Petrolia, California.)

Gill tells us that the CST Headquarters has several buildings that are used for housing workers and for doing the work of archiving — plans for the vaults include etching Hubbard’s millions of printed words on steel plates and storing them in titanium boxes.

For the past seven years, Shelly Miscavige has lived and worked at this compound, helping to preserve Hubbard’s words.

The CST Headquarters is located near Lake Arrowhead and Lake Gregory, familiar vacation destinations for many people in Southern California.

There are only a small handful of people who work at the CST Headquarters. To the thousands of Scientologists who were used to seeing Shelly at church events and the hundreds of Sea Org workers at the International Base who saw her on a daily basis — to them, she suddenly vanished.

Mail and other communications go from the Int Base to the CST Headquarters, but since 2006, people like Remini who were so used to communicating with Shelly have heard nothing.

In the past year, once questions were raised about Shelly following the Cruise-Holmes split, the church, through its attorneys, has said numerous times that Shelly is not “missing,” and that she has been working hard for the church.

But why the banishment to the small mountain compound? Why can Shelly no longer go to the large church events in nearby Los Angeles where she had been such a fixture? Why can she no longer even see her own family?

Where is Shelly?

Now that she has left the church, Leah Remini, our sources tell us, is hoping that with enough public scrutiny, Shelly will be forced to appear and speak for herself.

UPDATE: Mike Rinder, at his blog, helps explain how years of Scientology conditioning would keep Shelly from trying harder to get out of her confinement. Rinder also wrestled with this question in a series of remarkable video interviews we did with him last year.

——————–

Nicole Remini, Leah’s Sister, Gives Radio Interview

On Monday, Leah Remini’s older sister Nicole called into a Minneapolis radio station to talk about what her sister is going through. The interview starts at about the 25-minute mark. She confirms what we have been reporting, but then you knew we were telling the truth all along, right?

This newest video from Karen de la Carriere, J. Swift, and the Angry Gay Pope that skewers Scientology’s obsession with celebrities.

Also, we hear that Karen is suddenly getting some unwanted attention now that she’s pumping out so many videos that tweak the church. Private investigators have been visiting her neighbors, asking if people have seen anything unusual or alarming happening at Karen’s Los Feliz house.

But her neighbors were savvy enough to realize that it had all the earmarks of a Scientology “noisy investigation,” chased away the private eyes, and then ran to tell Karen about it.

Meanwhile, in Florida, former church spokesman Mike Rinder has suddenly found himself tailed by private investigators, something that had become less frequent.

——————–

Posted by Tony Ortega on July 17, 2013 at 07:00

E-mail your tips and story ideas to tonyo94@gmail.com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. Here at the Bunker we try to have a post up every morning at 7 AM Eastern (Noon GMT), and on some days we post an afternoon story at around 2 PM. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

I
have pondered and given long thought to how I endured those decades within the
“Church.”

In
my journey I ended up as the Senior Case Supervisor of Celebrity Center (Los
Angeles) for a couple of years. It gave me strong insights into the operation
and the purpose of having a “church” dedicated to servicing only
celebrities.

Notwithstanding
the “service” to celebrities, the Church had no mercy on anyone showing any sign
of disagreement.

I
slowly slowly let it dawn on me that the basic dynamic principle of the “church”
is not as described “SURVIVE” (although that plays a large part in how it
treats others.

The
basic principle is ATTACK AND DESTROY.

This
is carefully ingrained in the culture. Witness Kirstie Alley tweets as posted
by Tony Ortega and the immediate disconnection and unfriending of the
flock.

Almost
on command ~~ on DEMAND.

Sever
a lifetime connection ~ just like that.

Normal
people do not end up believing it is okay to stalk people like prey, to end up
as vicious OSA thugs or the OT VIII OSA operatives with head cams and cackling
laughter.

All
Scientologists are carefully trained to attack.

Right
now Charlie Earle, head of Intelligence Office of Special Affairs International
has a Private Investigator talking to my neighbors to find *DIRT* on me. 2
days the PI is engaging with my neighbors for *malicious* retaliation to my
speaking out.

Even
as I write this, Indies are *attacking* me for not praising the *tech* in my
videos and even calling me an *undercover ANON* which is a hoot ! ROFL
!

What
Sea org members, Office of Special Affairs Scientology Inc does not and will
*NEVER* understand is simply this ~~~~~

The
*Church of Scientology* is under continuous ATTACK, because as an entity, its
prime function is to ATTACK one and all. ATTACK is built into its hardware and
DNA. Challenging anything in the Church or asking to depart is met with
increasingly gruesome ATTACK. Having gotten away with this for years, this now
extends to Celebrities, witness 5 years of interrogations on Leah Remini.
ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK.

The
“Church” of Scientology is similar to a Sci Fi virus Tsunami that devours
everyone in its path, like an advancing Army. Then the Tsunami waves pulls
back and it leaves the shoreline littered with spiritual rape of all funds,
bankruptcies, psychological trauma, destroyed families, disconnection, reports
to the FBI, Human trafficking exposed and Fair Game as good as Guardian Office
days, no reform,. This pattern continues month in and month out.

The
more enemies Taliban Scientology makes, the more it attacks. It only knows
how to throw gasoline on the fire and escalate a smoldering fire. It cannot put
out a fire. With the supreme arrogance of *holding the secrets of the universe*
it batters and clobbers exiting scientologists turning mild disaffecteds into
lifetime warriors.

And the numbers of Scientology-haters increases
exponentially where long term loyalists now sit around plotting its demise. The
“Church” strictly obeys its policy of FAIR GAME :

Fair
Game Law':

“An enemy [incl. a critic]:
. . . may be deprived
of property or injured by any means”.
. . . may be tricked, sued or lied to
or destroyed”.

And
the beat goes on….

Sherbet

Karen, you are one tough cookie for putting up with the harassment. You will not be silenced.

Truthiwant

It seems to me that one of the biggest contradictions of the Organization is where infact Shelly is supposedly working, in the ‘Church of Spiritual Technology’ or CST.

If Scientology had the secrets of the universe as they say they do and bring sanity and understanding to mankind, then why on earth would they need to preserve the writings of Hubbard from a nuclear war?

It seems completely contradictory to what the ‘Church’ proclaims about them being able to ‘Clear’ the planet and bring sanity to this part of the galaxy!

Evidently, with all their brilliant technology, they obviously think at the same time that they won’t be able to ‘Clear’ the planet!

1subgenius

I’ve said the same many times.
But it bears repeating.
Definitely puts it in the class of apocalyptic cults. Which is ominous.

Vistaril

If Scientology had the secrets of the universe as they say they do and bring sanity and understanding to mankind, then why on earth would they need to preserve the writings of Hubbard from a nuclear war?

Yep, great point. I mean, if Scientology is about making the able more able then how come Scientologists aren’t able to fix Scientology, or even, as you say, to complete their stated primary purpose? Still, Scientologists are kinda stuck. The instructions to preserve his work is written into {scripture} and must be obeyed.

So far as the nuclear war aspect is concerned, its worth bearing in mind that one of the distraction techniques involved in running his scam was the use of fear mondering. L Ron Hubbard often mentioned that the world was a risk of imminent destruction from a nuclear war. In the mid-1960s, for example, L Ron Hubbard wrote that the world had “5 years left”. The fact that five years passed with out nuclear oblivion was due to, yep, you guessed it, him and Scientology. This theme continued even up into the 1980s. In his bizarre HCOB PURIFICATION RUNDOWN AND ATOMIC WAR, 3 January 1980RA (revised 8 August 1983), L Ron Hubbard wrote . . .

I want Scientologists to live through World War III.

Atomic war has been more or less neglected as a news subject since the late 50s. But that doesn’t make it any less a threat. All it takes is one psychopath politician with access to the war-peace button. And today there are a dozen atomic-armed nations . . .

This was written at a time L Ron Hubbard was still trading off his lie about being a nuclear physicist and, needless to say, was leveraging his mendacity to verify the efficacy of the Purification Rundown as a means to ensuring that Scientologists could not die from the fall out of a nuclear explosion.

While I’m prattling, and assuming anyone is still reading this, some have suggested that the real genesis of why L Ron Hubbard’s writings are to be preserved goes waaaay back, right back to a letter he wrote to his then wife Polly Grubb. In something of a reflection of his his “Affirmations”, L Ron Hubbard wrote that it was his intention to “. . . smash my name into history so violently it will take a legendary form. . . ” Perhaps then, in his nascent insanity, L Ron Hubbard really believed that he would be a legendary figure and, as it became more and more apparent to him that he was more likely to be remembered as a conman, he genuinely wished for an end to the world as we know it. In his drug-addled state and collapsing grip on reality, he may well have imagined his work being enearthed in a long distant future and carefully transported to museums and universities for poring over by learned professors . It could still happen. In that case, can you imagine the howls of laughter echoing through those ivory towers as they fall about the place in hyserics at the Xenu story. I can.

Arthur B

Oh god, can you imagine if future archaeologists thought that Scientology was the major religion of our era? We’d look like such goofs!

Exterrier

That’s so funny. What if it happened, though. Deserves some sort of a script or screenplay for a comedy of some kind.

Brett Allen Hensel

Because we currently look so intelligent with that bible, right…?

Douglas D. Douglas

Whether you agree with the Bible or not, it is recognized as a classic piece of world literature. To in any way compare it with the poorly written piece of dreck that is Dianetics is, frankly, specious. Again, doesn’t matter what you believe about either of these books.

Shay Harper Shizzy

Before the Bible was a classic, it was NEW. Consider that.

mk2aw

Forget sky wizards or aliens for a minute , you are really comparing Dianetics to a classic literary piece of work that is the bible? That’s ridicoulous .

Shay Harper Shizzy

We look like goofs anyway. That’s why racism exists & why human beings kill each other off while one country verses another country & so on. To God, I’m sure we look like goofs. To aliens who may exist or any body of a higher intelligence, humans probably look like interesting, stupid goofs. When I look at humanity as a whole & how un-united we are in our ideals, I think we are goofs NOW.

Marie Claire Wolf

Legendary indeed! As the greatest con man of the 20th -21st centuries.

Robert Eckert

Greatest of the 20th century, but the 21st century is still very young. A lot of people thought Joseph Smith’s record couldn’t be broken either. Maybe by 2050 or so we will see a charlatan to put even LRH to shame.

Bella Legosi

That’s a scary thought! Would make for some good B movie horror!

Shay Harper Shizzy

Well, if the universe doesn’t willingly listen all together, doesn’t matter what knowledge ANYONE has that can help others. If ppl don’t want to help themselves, there is no help for them. Only those who want to make a change WILL make a change. Stop downing Scientology. Christians profess that the Bible is the one true way to live. Every religion believes THEY are the right one. It’s not just Scientology.

Orglodyte

This one was a big problem for me when I was in. I got pretty good at the custom burlwood logic required to reconcile Scientology’s contradictions, but here I was stumped. Why doesn’t Ron just exteriorize and defuse all the bombs?

The only hypothesis I could come up with was just as unsatisfactory — maybe Ron had defused the bombs and wasn’t telling us, so we’d be more motivated.

Either way he was lying. Never resolved it until that glorious day when the whole house of cards fell down.

Truthiwant

I see that this is your first comment.

Welcome!

I’m really interested, as I am sure many others are, about what made you realize that Hubbard and Scientology were a fake.

I found myself alone, with a lot of time on my hands (unusual in SCN and for good reason) and decided to reread all of Hubbard’s books. In Creation of Human Ability (I think), I ran into the claim that one could gain or lose 30 pounds of actual mass with auditing.

The heavens opened and the angels sang, and I thought, “This CAN NOT be true!”

I went to college with wrestlers who went through hell cutting half a pound to make a weight class. If such a technology existed, nothing could stop it. Imagine NBA players practicing 30 pounds heavy and then playing 30 pounds light without changing their appearance! Hubbard was lying, or had accepted someone’s false report without checking. No escape from this thought.

So: What else might he have been lying about? It was like pulling on the right thread and unravelling the whole sweater. About 36 sleepless hours later, I had peeled the onion and was out for good. I still emit the occasional war whoop when nobody is around. Greatest relief of my life.

Truthiwant

I know the feeling.
It’s incredible how you don’t question anything when you are ‘in’ and just assume that they are all telling the truth. When somebody says to you “It’s your eternity” it sounds so silly now but when you are brainwashed in the Organization you believe it. Or atleast, you are afraid to question it.
And infact, I believe it is because of the lack of questioning that so many people stay ‘in’ and obviously the fact that even if you did question, you would get no sensible reply anyway and probably you would be sent to ethics.

Orglodyte

I tend to think the best of people, and I guess I wasn’t willing to believe that anyone could lie to such an extent. That magnitude of lying just wasn’t dreamt of in my philosophy.

I sent some really good KRs to RTC, quoting chapter and verse, and got back answers that showed me nobody uplines gave a rip. Another turn of the cognitive dissonance screw.

richelieu jr

I hear that.. For those of us who just try and explain it to other ‘Wogs’ (yipes, let’s come up with a better term than this or ‘never-ins’ or ‘outsiders, or whatevers, shall we?), it is a problem that very often we come off as paranoids or conspiracy buffs, or something… The normal mind rejects such exaggeration…

Missionary Kid

I wear the term wog proudly, but only here, and not IRL. Having been born in one British colony and having lived in another, I’m quite conscious of its meaning. I would never use it anywhere else, and I only use it because LRH bestowed it on the “unwashed.”

richelieu jr

Interesting, MK.. I was gonna say, I’m not into it because, although I think it sounds cute (memories of GollyWog when we were kids?), I too was,partly raise din Great Britain and et’s face it, it was pretty much the ‘n’ word* there for a while (still is in some circles, I imagine)..
Can you imagine if he’d been a Brit who spent a little time amongst Americans and came back calling outsiders N*****s? I don’t think Yanks get it, really. They know it was English originally and used the Navy, but so were a number of Syphillis treatments, I’m sure… JUst one more example of his absolute tone-deafness and cultural insensitivity… Not to mention his outright theft of other ideas and laziness in covering it up at all…

Missionary Kid

I don’t ever remember hearing the word as a child (I went to kindergarten and the first form in Hong Kong), but I somehow sensed that it was basically a word loaded with all of the colonial entitlement and racism that the empire was capable of when I first heard the term at an older age. I knew that my parents would never use the word.

LRH was a racist and a homophobe. Of course, if someone had money, they were all right. Ethics, in $cion land, means your ethical state is a function of how much money you have or can give.

richelieu jr

You weren’t aware of the whole ‘Golliwog’ problem with the dolls? The Black one was called ‘Golliwog’ and thy ended up pulling them. Today people love to have them ‘ironically’, but it was a relatively big deal in what.. The 70s?”

Oops! Looks like they are in the news again, right now, as it happens!

I mean who could say these dolls are racist, right? I’m sure LRH mean only best when he took this vile term and slapped in on all of us!

Check it out folks (HINT: The one in the middle is NOT a Golliwog.)

Missionary Kid

Boy, did Richard Seymour politely rip a new one through Richard Goodwill MP!!

In the U.S., antique dolls of this sort are collected by both blacks and whites to remind them of how bad things used to be. Note I said antiques.

The thing that hit me in the comments was the black person who said they were called a golliwog as a child because they were black, and it was meant to be an insult.

I believe the piece would have had more impact if a person of color (oops, colour) were to have written it.

richelieu jr

Oh, absolutely MK.. I just chose this article because it was one of the first of THOUSANDS…
“Golliwog’ and ‘Wog’ were never nice, and were always intended as vicious insults. That modern Scilons don’t know this doesn’t excuse them any more than ignorant kids throwing the ‘n’ word around..
it is a nasty vestige of a nasty man that reflects his out-of-date, nasty prejudices, kind of like, well.. $cientology.. xo,
d”

“Glory is fleeting but obscurity is forever.” — Napoleon

Missionary Kid

And yet, I choose to use the term about myself because I consider the source.

GlibWog

Richelieu.. Well.. if that happens I will have to change my name.. sigh..

The first out and out lie I found out about was the org in Israel. I saw early in ’12 on the VV about how it wasn’t open yet. Whereas i had been at an event at Flag earlier along with all the other stupid people who saw a vid of DM showing how they had Opened up that org showing lots of staff out front. Of course it was impressive. Then upon reading it on Tony’s news, wow. About a year later they opened it. That was the first outright lie I saw and of course many after that. I’ve always trusted Tony’s ability to tell the truth thereafter and found so many lies the cherch tells. I did get to tell that to my ‘handler’ before he disconnected from me.

Sherbet

I didn’t realize you haven’t been out very long, De. In such a brief time, you’ve become very articulate about the cult’s phoniness. A great big Brava to you, and a hug, too.

DeElizabethan

Thanks Sweetie. However I had about 25 years out before my mate passed and got talked back in. I know stupid, but not on the internet at all. That impressive year back in really opened my eyes plus they never helped me once, but thought I may find some old friends, ha. So having lived in the real world I was in a better place and didn’t take long to see the light. Also was in real world for about 35 years before joining the cult in the first place. Quite a life and am happy to finally have meaning or purpose to my existence now, for what’s left of it. Happy for peeps like you too!

cicely neville

Congratulations and welcome.

richelieu jr

Only you pull the thread and somebody keeps knitting, and knitting, and KNITTING!!!!

Good on you Orglodyte. Know what you mean. When you finally know the decision, it is the greatest relief. Good to see you here.

Orglodyte

The fringe benefits of leaving Scientology are never ending. Many years later, I still savor the deliciousness of being able to think anything I damn well please.

DeElizabethan

Great, me too. Think, speak and do, as you say, damn well please.

Sherbet

I feel like giving you a hug, Orglo.

Orglodyte

Awwww … Thanks.

HelenNPN

Great story! You just applied actual logic and fell out of the brainwash. Thanks for telling it and congratulations and welcome to your real senses, feelings, thoughts and soul.

richelieu jr

I think I may have seen you on the ex-scilons message boards?

I wanted to ask yo about your name;. Presumably it is a riff on ‘Troglodyte’? If so, I ma still at a loss to understand it because the beginning of the word seems obscure..

Would you care to elucidate?

Truthiwant

The etymology of -dyte is from the Greek ‘dyein’ which means to ‘go in’. ‘Lo’ is an expression of grief in Olde English, and Org is the abbreviation of Organization so i can imagine that it means “Oh my goodness, I went in to the Organization”

cicely neville

Snort!

cicely neville

Please tell him you’re kidding. Newbies are not always prepared for you. Tho I think this guy is sharp; that’s a pretty cute name. Shall we call him “Org”for short?

Truthiwant

I love the the light bulb avatar.

Robert Eckert

Or “Orgy” as a term of endearment.

Orglodyte

Don’t forget the hard “G.”

richelieu jr

But I’m not kidding! I presume it is a joke f his! I just want to be in on it!

Orglodyte

Hi richelieu, answer is below.

richelieu jr

Thanks, Orglodyte! I’ve got it now!

I’m guessing that ‘org’ is because of where you were working by incandescent light until all hours?
Welcome abord (though like they sad, you should be warned about me. I don’t like David Miscavige or LRH… I use bad words more than I should, I’m not at all int the independent movement and I don’t suffer fools gladly…
I like: Long moonlit walks, back rubs, Star Trek, Rock Music, Girls, women, my baby and I had better say my girlfriend, too…
Welcome to our little world! (actually, it’s Tony’s world, we only live in it…

Orglodyte

Thanks for the welcome! I’ve spent a ridiculous amount of time reading here. It’s crossed my mind that posting might help alleviate my obsession, but I expect it will be like taking up whiskey because I’m drinking too much beer.

Orglodyte

It’s an old joke from days “in,” a term for those poor pale staff members who did Central Files stuff in the basement all day. Even the J&D policy can’t squelch all humor.

Vistaril

Heh! Charlie Earle, what a sad case. For more than 30 years he’s been dedicatedly following L Ron Hubbard’s Scientology {scripture}, a journey which has seen him rise in status from picking through Russell Miller’s garbage in Kensington, to trolling protesting Anons in Dallas, and, now, to harassing the wife of the cult’s President and mother of yet another Scientology victim of murder by depraved indifference . . . wattaguy.

Lark Smith

Lyingtology has the unique ability to turn seekers into destroyers. They enter seeking knowledge and self improvement strategies and move (up) to become coldhearted tormentors. Profoundly sad and Oh so sinister.

Exterrier

Ick. A face that reflects the true pugnacious core of a pseudo religion with no soul deep down…..merely the hollow hungry ego of its greedy creator, Lron.

OTVIIIisGrrr8!

OSA boss Charlie Earle belongs in prison, that much is true. However, we in the Church of Scientology have channeled this violent psychotic’s wholetrack evil purposes into defending the Church.

As a Sea Org member, Charlie enjoys high pay, weekends off, luxury housing, medical and dental benefits, a generous retirement package, and of course six weeks of vacation per year.

Charlie may be a malicious and violent scumbag, but he is our malicious and violent scumbag!

Jgg2012

Does he lock kids in boiler rooms?

Jgg2012

OT8, why is the Bunker posting this story? Does Ortega have rank to tell the world where Shelly is? I though he was a PTS.

I never thought of it that way. They really have created this situation. And those tactics even move complete outsiders to join in the fray.

EnthralledObserver

“And those tactics even move complete outsiders to join in the fray”
That’s the bandwagon I jumped on board…

Exterrier

Thank you for focusing things so simply and clearly.

Brett Allen Hensel

Well said. Since this story broke, I had wondered about the legitimacy of Tommy’s comment about Remini not having the ‘fucking rank’ to ask simple questions. I had assumed that celebrities were always handled with the softest of gloves – or outright lied to and mislead – and that those in elevated positions who are responsible for dealing with celebrities, would never dream of speaking to celebrities in such a manner It sounds like I couldn’t have been more wrong. But if that’s the case, and Remini has seen this before and is aware that its common practice, then the church HAS to be aware that she’s in a position to cause them some real trouble. Shouldn’t we assume that the church is in full damage control mode right now trying to make this all go away?

DeElizabethan

Excellent post Karen, thanks. You have a special way with words and it really hits the spots. LOL on undercover Anon, precious! True, OSA is just a new name for the old GO. Nothing changes with them except maybe more covert operations, but still attack always. I’m so happy that the public is becoming more aware of the antics and core of this cult.

Marie Claire Wolf

Thank you again so very much for educating all of us wogs. Your videos are amazingly so well conceived and put together, they lay out a clear & comprehensive case against Co$. May you be always safe and reach your goal of justice for your son, you have my admiration and support.

MTP

Karen you do fabulous work. Thank you for caring.

http://cofsexit.blogspot.com/ CofS Exit Zone

Thank you for speaking up and being honest about the Indies attacking you for not promoting the tech in your videos Karen. I’ve been wondering about how some of the lulzy segments went over for quite some time. And FWIW I am sorry to hear that they are not more supportive of your new perspective on how to leverage an effective blow against the Church of Scientology. It’s quite sad their minds are not more open to the fact that laughter in and of itself is a healing agent, and does not automatically make someone an enemy.

DeElizabethan

I second that!

Nevermore

‘She may not believe that she needs to be “rescued” from her fate.’

That is one of the most chilling things about $cientology, that they can brainwash people to that extent. While I don’t wish anyone to die, one can only hope that if Shelly gets out for another funeral, someone can get her away from the handler, and set about de-programming her.

Couch_Incident

It’s always struck me that the refrain of “Where’s Shelly?” might be overdone. What a let down if she was produced and was still a Scibot through and through. Tony’s reporting that she believes her confinement to be her fault and that her work on preserving LRH’s meanderings on cocktail napkins underscores this possibility.

Xenu

“…preserving LRH’s meanderings on cocktail napkins…”

Priceless. No wonder she has no time to phone home.

Sherbet

Case in point: Heber Jentzsch who — when finally given the opportunity — says he’s fine and wants to be left alone.

1subgenius

“Where’s Shelly” is only the introductory question. But it still must be asked.
Of course, if produced, she will go through the motions.

Watergate

From what I’ve been told, the FBI decided not to try to rescue people from the Hole because of this phenomenon — that the Holees would refuse to leave, would insist that they were happy where they were. It’s a terrible Catch-22.

Lark Smith

Yes, they not only drank the Kool Aid for years, they have now been bathed it.

Chocolate Velvet

I found an interesting paper several months back that explores the way people are manipulated into giving consent to abuse in cults. Such groups have certain ways of functioning that have a predictable impact on their members. It’s referred to as “engineered consent”. We are all vulnerable to it, under the right (wrong?) circumstances.

In an environment of engineered consent “…our capacity for independent judgement is seriously impaired, our attitudes will develop along lines prescribed by the leader of the group rather than what logic, observation or personal experience might dictate, we find ourselves deprived of sufficient information to choose between a variety of options and it is possible for the leaders of the group to engage in behaviours which to an outsider can only be described as abusive.”

Asking where’s “__________” Shelly or Heber or etc in a very public forum is always helpful regardless of the outcome of the person in question. It may never free Shelly but asking the question may help liberate another 10 or 20 or 100 “Scibots”.

http://frankdisalleisadummy.wordpress.com/ Get Chutney Love

And, if Shelly were your sister/cousin/niece etc., wouldn’t you want people to keep asking where she is, even if you thought her disappearance was voluntary?

MTP

Of course. Thats why people should should keep asking. But because silence = culpability where the cult is concerned. These are questions current members are afraid to ask for fear of the thought police bankrupting them or ruining their marriage to their Scientology wives. (Hi Larry!) Where’s OT 9, Who is Paulette Cooper, Google Snow White, HCOPL Nov 15 1968 Disconnection cancelled, etc etc. We demand answers to the questions that current church members are terrified to even think of. My point is, and many of us don’t know it, but we are the auditors asking the questions and trying to get Scientologist to get his own answers. We are doing the “Sec Check” on the church and we just keep asking the auditing question. Scientologists know how this works. They are sitting on the curb, some are reading this blog, or MIke Rinders (more likely) and they see the same questions come up and they see the church giving an evasive “no answer” to the question. And to a Scientologist, they KNOW what this means. Thats the best work we do here. Provide a public forum for the Church to shoot itself in the foot daily. The Church is already unraveling so it’s working!

Observer

This is too tragic to inspire any kind of snark in me. All I can do is hope our government will wake up, sprout a spine, strip away Scientology’s false religious cloaking, and drop the hammer. Hard.

1subgenius

Until lawmakers have a better understanding of brainwashing, mental slavery will persist.
And its worse than physical chains.

Vistaril

Thanks for the recap and, yep, “where’s Shelly?” is a great question to be asking Scientology. Another one might be: “who is Laurisse Stuckenbrock?”

Observer

I wonder if Lou will be shocked when she finds she’s been disappeared one day just like Shelly and everyone else in COB’s immediate orbit.

P.S. Davey, divorce is far more appropriate for a “religious” leader than a blatant affair with a staffer. It’s just more proof of how utterly ignorant you are.

Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

Maybe one of his friends can pass on the name of a good divorce lawyer.

EnthralledObserver

I don’t think ‘Katie’ is considered a ‘friend’ anymore… just saying…

Casabeca

Yeah, he should read up on the mayor’s trouble in San Diego this week.

Poison Ivy

Whoa, what a picture! Where did that come from? (Or is it shoop?)

Andrew Robertson

It is a compelling picture. If you stare into her eyes for too long you can almost imagine that she’s pleading for help.

Silly, I know, but it’s a powerful image.

Andrew

sugarplumfairy

I don’t know, Andrew.. That pic of Shelly reminds me of when I was about 10 and my mom was giving me the evil eye because she didn’t want to smack me in front of company.. To me, those eyes say, “you’re soooo lucky your cousins are here..”

And once again Scientology proves that it’s much worse than you think.

Nevermore

On page 3 of that thread they say it’s a shoop. Damned good shoop too!

Observer

Oops, I completely missed that. thanks for the correction. It really is a good one!

Vistaril

Yep. Shoop it is . . . but shhhh!! ; )

John P.

It is a shoop from a couple months ago by OTVIIIisGrrrr8.

Watergate

It is Laurisse’s face superimposed.

Observer

Which raises the question of who’s draped over His Ecclesiasticableness Miscavige …

RMycroft

Otherwise she sure grew a lot of hair from the racetrack photos taken at the same time.

Observer

Those are some mad shooping skillz!

i-Betty

I’ve seen this photo before, and each time I think the same thing: he’s recovering from a too-tight face lift.

Imelda Marcos

Also: almost looks like he’s tall.

Gus_Cox

Funny, the first thing I thought was, “jeez, he’s short enough to fit the window seat of a Lear!”

Watergate

It’s a shoop. A good shoop. But a shoop.

Peter

My take is that Dwarfenfuhreur’s “portrait” has come out of the closet to replace the young guy. All this bad news is slashing that portrait, just as in Dorian Gray. He’s really looking ugly and old in this shot.

Captain Howdy

Look out evil doers..it’s Poodle Harry.

I think they lowered the ceiling on that plane to make Poodle feel like a big bean.

John P.

The plane is a Cessna Citation Mustang, the smallest jet that Cessna makes. While Miscavige may be able to stand up without hitting his head on the ceiling, a lot of other folks would have to hunch over a bit to walk up and down the aisle.

I recall getting into a bit of a fun interchange with OTVIIIisGrrrr8 about the fact that Miscavige had apparently downsized from the Boeing Business Jet (a 737 with extra fuel tanks and a corporate interior) that he usually charters to a Mustang, which is good for four adults. The Mustang has the legroom of a Subaru Outback and, more importantly, it lacks a bathroom, which is kind of an indicator of “loser” status among those of us who own jets.

AnyOldName1

I would think the {church} would have DC-8’s.

Captain Howdy

Doesn’t have a bathroom? Miscavige is so freaking cheap he makes John Paul Getty look like Aaron M. Feuestein.

NoName

It’s spelled Laurisse Schtuppindwarf.

villagedianne

Good one!!!

Missionary Kid

Great one. That went into my collection of nicknames.

Exterrier

More creepiness. Remember the movie The Loved One, where Jonathon Winters played the greedy spiritual figurehead for the Forest Lawn like giant mortuary. And how he wore black and rode around in a private helicopter with his dark sunglasses on. Worth rewatching in light of this photo.

Captain Howdy

Great movie.

Missionary Kid

Ohhh! The Rev. Wilbur Glenworthy.

One of my favorite movies. One hell of a cast. I think that many of them must have worked for scale. I sure would have liked to have been on the set.

Before I checked, I thought that Kubrick had directed both because of the similar phrases.

As I remember it, the line in The Loved One is uttered by the Immigration official, who at IMDB, is listed as James Coburn.

Robert Eckert

James Coburn was in so many campy classics. I re-watched The President’s Analyst a while ago, such a time capsule from its era– but the bits about the President losing sleep over Libya, and The Phone Company wanting to implant chips in us all to track us at all times, reminded me le plus ce change, le plus c’est le meme chose

cicely neville

I loved that movie! Can’t find it anywhere. Still quoting it. In Valencia years ago; hotel room had tiny bathtub; we had ongoing gag that it was the other half of “Mom’s big tub”!!

Missionary Kid

On IMDB,there’s an ad from Amazon.com for it.

cicely neville

Thanks sweetie!

Missionary Kid

You’re welcome. I happened to see it when I checked some of my “facts.”
It was also on TNT not too long ago, and I only caught the ending. It will be on again.

Synthia Fagen

This photo just screams ‘ecclesiastical demeanor and respectability’ It makes me all warm and fuzzy inside — so calming and offering hope to the lost and troubled masses here on our prison planet. “God save the King, I mean Fling.”

RMycroft

I believe that image is a (very good) shoop. It was discussed on WWP a day or two ago.

I wonder if Shelly gets conjugal visits or perhaps more important, would she welcome them?

It seems such an odd life she’s leading

Andrew

sugarplumfairy

If her confined life could be said to have any perks, I’d say lack of intimacy with the bellicose big being would be one of them..

CharlieWaters

Exactly. Another perk would be not to have to be around DM when he’s been drinking. I can’t even imagine what that guy’s like after half a bottle or more of scotch. Yikes!

Poison Ivy

Seems like COB has just written her out of the story completely. As people with ultimate power are wont to do.

Robert Eckert

Henry II kept Eleanor of Aquitaine imprisoned (a comfy prison, but a prison nonetheless) for fifteen years. Her only way out was when Henry died (the lampreys have an alibi for that one).

BosonStark

Conjugal visits with whom? I doubt the midget even lets her have her batteries.

sugarplumfairy

I think it’s apparent she means death..

DeElizabethan

Like Herber said at one point, that he will die there.

sugarplumfairy

That’s heartbreaking.. And to be beaten down so badly that you believe you deserve it..

i-Betty

Sadly I, too, read it as her own death being the only escape.

grundoon

“only one way” = if something happens to Dave

Spackle Motion

I read it as she would only get out in a body bag.

Sunny Sands

From Leah’s sister’s interview:

“This week is going to be ugly. There’s more to come out. The press just isn’t letting it go. She’s just hanging in there. She’s in good spirits. This too shall pass. Soon this will be old news, as long as the church lets it go. Which I don’t think will happen. That would be the smartest thing to do.”

Popcorn supply is ready.

1subgenius

I put a much more ominous read on “one way out”.

Sunny Sands

Me, too.

Observer

Yep.

Michael Leonard Tilse

Yea, I agree. It could mean that her family would have to make up with the {church} and get back in ‘good standing’.

But the other unspoken meaning seems more probable.

It’s good to know that she is alive, at least.

1subgenius

And now I have the Elmore James/Sonny Boy Williamson/Allman Brothers song “One Way Out” going through my head.
Love it though. “There’s only one way out babe. Lord I just can’t go out that door.There’s a man down there. Might be your man, I don’t know”
I hate when that happens.

Robert Eckert

Hey! This is the Bunker, mister! You don’t mention an earworm and not provide the link!

With respect to “only one way” – couldn’t this be a reference to the approved method by which a person with an SP declare can get back into the Church’s good graces? (Though then again, doesn’t that involve public declarations of how bad you were?)

Observer

Shelly’s standing with the “church” isn’t the issue–it’s her standing with her husband. She encroached on his territory, at least in his mind, and there is no forgiveness for that. Ever.

Arthur B

You’re implying that DM believes there’s any difference between his own interests and the interests of the church, or indeed that the church is anything other than his personal fiefdom/piggy bank.

Observer

You’re assuming that the “church” “doctrine” has any bearing on this. I’m saying that when it comes to David Miscavige, nothing in the guhLAXy is relevant except his wants, needs and paranoia. There are no accusations, even from Davey, that she committed any transgression against Scientology. But she offended him, and he will never forgive that. I also believe she will never be seen by the public again unless/until Scientology is dismantled. She knows FAR too much for Davey to ever let her out of confinement.

Arthur B

The really silly thing about this whole situation is that if Dave wanted to put out an SP order on her he could. Of course, we know he hates any problems blowing up in his family, but then again if he declares Shelly a Suppressive Person he could then pin responsibility for his niece, dad, siblings and so on all either dropping out of Scientology or going off the rails. It’d quiet the troops and whilst it’d send a bad message to the outside world, there’s more or less nothing DM could do at this point to rehabilitate his image to the outside world beyond declaring that the Church is going to disband.

But then again, as well as being a theocratic dictator DM is a deeply incompetent theocratic dictator.

EnthralledObserver

Declaring Shelly an SP would mean he’d have to let her go free…. really free, as in ‘wog’ free, and he can’t have that… she knows all about his actual ‘wog’ criminal activites from the previous several decades, and there is the possibility she might just share them with her new, best buddy, Tony O (or someone of his ilk).

Observer

Ain’t that the truth!

tetloj

Re: “As we reported earlier, Remini wrote up a “Knowledge Report” about that and other things she saw at the wedding that alarmed her, complaining about Miscavige, Cruise, Davis, spokeswoman Jessica Feshbach and others.”

I picked the wrong 10 days to be off line it seems…any details published about these things that alarmed her (apart from the bum squeeze and the ‘you have no fucking rank’ or WTTE)

Robert Eckert

Norman Starkey (deeply involved in drafting the {will} of LRH setting up the elaborate network of corporate shells that Miscavige uses to control everything) was the {minister} conducting the ceremony, but somewhat ruined the {religiosity} by getting roaring drunk and sexually harassing Brooke Shields until she started complaining loudly.

Michael Leonard Tilse

DM has to be in an absolute tizzy. Can you imagine his paranoia at Tony having a source at the CST compound? Everybody there is going to sec checks. since about 59 minutes ago.

sugarplumfairy

What is that saying about absolute power?? hmmm.. Absolute power…..makes you an absolute asshole?? something like that..

Imelda Marcos

Lord Acton: “Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men.”

Robert Eckert

I love that abstruse questions always get answered knowledgeably here.

tetloj

Nah- I prefer SPFs version

scottishinlondon

I jumped in with my smartalecky version, but i agree SPF’s is better

sugarplumfairy

And I like yours better..

scottishinlondon

“Power corrupts, and absolute power is even nicer”

GlibWog

He is a Perfect Asshole SPF… He doesn’t even have Hemorrhoids! He pays SO to Grunt for him.

Exterrier

That compound photo is so creepy. It actually feels like Bigfoot should also appear in the blurry background.

Kitz

That thought has me shuddering for those at the compound. After hearing what sec checks for ‘minor’ offenses are like……

1subgenius

The Rinder, and for that matter Rathbun, surveillance, I believe reflects a pathetic, voyeuristic compulsion on the part of Miscavige to see what a half-way normal life would be like.
He’s never had one.

apples and oranges

Long time lurker, first time commenter. All I can say is that if someone has to die for Shelly to get out, please let it be David Miscavige!

Missionary Kid

I have a lot of anger towards DM, but please, on this site, don’t point towards DM or anyone else having violence or death being a result. The Co$ will do anything to point to this site and Tony as advocating violence or harm, even though it wasn’t your intention.

Best we joke and degrade the midget, because he really is an evil joke.

http://frankdisalleisadummy.wordpress.com/ Get Chutney Love

Yes, let’s hope that one day DM will face the bar of justice, and that he dies of natural causes behind bars.

Nevermore

I have to say that if some god or other removed him from the face of the Earth, I would not shed a tear. Au contraire!

Missionary Kid

At least, you left the punishment up to a deity. That takes it out of human hands.

Nevermore

TBH, I assumed that what apples and oranges meant as well!

Missionary Kid

I assumed it, too, but I could see how Co$ can twist things.

Robert Eckert

Shelly probably meant that HER OWN funeral would be the only occasion when she got out again.

AnyOldName1

Yep. In a way it sounds like a cry for help, even if she didn’t realize it. So sad.

FLUNK_101

Scientology is endlessly weird and almost unrecognizable as a religious practice.
“The Truth Rundown” has to be the most perfect example of Scientology “auditing” as mind control.
It’s so sad that Leah Remini was subjected to this. Thank you Tony for revealing this INSANITY.
The Truth Rundown has nothing to do with truth. It’s a guilt trip designed to control your mind.
They ask you for something bad that YOU did, to get you feeling guilty, to make you easier to control. If you criticize the church, they get you feeling bad about something you did just prior to your criticizing the church … then they try to make you believe that your own bad actions are the reason you’re unhappy with Scientology.
They exploit a person’s sense of right and wrong, just to make them feel bad about themselves!

Sunny Sands

Leah spent 3 months at Flag being sec checked. What a way to spend her hiatus from King of Queens. And to be away from her young daughter, not to mention husband.

Peter

Apropos of this comment, Mike Rinder [mikerindersblog.org] has a brilliant piece on why Shelly, or other scios “don’t see what’s happening” or “can’t take the steps to blow”, et al. Well worth the read, especially if you are on this blog but have never been in the czerch.

Gerard Plourde

The reverberations from all of these disasters keep multiplying and the pace is accelerating. How much more can the S.S. Hubbard take before it breaks apart?

It’s getting so that you can’t leave this site for a minute without a new post appearing. Great reporting Tony.

Poison Ivy

Ditto that.

i-Betty

Yes! The Bunker is like a spider silk of exclusive, breaking nuggets of gold that keeps pulling me back for more when I should really be doing the laundry. This is my happy place!

MTP

Gerard, to your question…my two cents…I don’t think any of us will get the satisfaction of seeing the S.S.Hubbard break apart against an iceberg, or the FBI, or the IRS. Rather, I think the SMV Scientology will quietly slip beneath the waves relatively unnoticed by a decreasing of noisy investigations, high level defections or celebrity gossip. After everyone has left, there won’t be anyone to save. Just Miscavige and his posse and the corpses at the Int base.

Gerard Plourde

I wasn’t thinking of anything as dramatic as an iceberg, the FBI or the IRS either. I was thinking more in terms of the tragic sinkings that occur in the middle of hurricanes or storms like The Perfect Storm or the storm that sank the Edmund Fitzgerald (showing my age) – ones in which the ship is overwhelmed by the relentless pounding of nature’s waves.

MTP

Well perhaps it’s going to go that way. Consider the Mission in Israel (Haifa?) that went Independent. There are Independent Scientology Centers and groups springing up like ragweed. Scientologists don’t have to put up with the insanity and bullshit anymore, they can get their “spiritual freedom” better and cheaper elsewhere. I see the SMV Scientology sitting higher in the water, not lower, because there will be less weight on board, less “bodies in the shop”. That means the center of gravity will be higher, and the danger of TIPPING OVER is more likely. (Ha! I’m so clever.) So I guess that means perhaps we’ll see the underside of the ship instead. I like this analogy. Scientology Organizations closed with FOR SALE signs = upside down ship.

Marie Claire Wolf

Possibly since it will be oh! so humiliating to admit that you were a member {in good standing} of that sinking ship, people will just slink away quietly; that is if they can…

cicely neville

To quote dear Robert Benchley, they can think of themselves a ships leaving a sinking rat.

http://frankdisalleisadummy.wordpress.com/ Get Chutney Love

Never heard that one, that’s funny.

I like the classical formulation that H. L. Mencken learned from one of his mentors:

“When the ship is sinking, follow the rats.”

Doug Parent

Indeed. It is primarily the reason I consider my SP declare a badge of honor and integrity. You can’t get one unless you tell the truth. Being there and communicating what is true for you of your “Scientology experience”. They don’t LIKE IT when you do that.

monkeyknickers

MC Lyte is a scientologist?! Really?!

I have to go lie down now.

shasha40

I am so joining now as her career has been upstat these past 30 years !… Not !

1subgenius

Hold on to your shit, Doug E. Fresh is one too!
And Chilly B!!!!! (Yeah, I know, “who?”)

Robert Eckert

Isn’t it “Chill E. B.”?

1subgenius

Probably. Thanks.

baddog5623

Someone said they would not give her the letters and had issue with the content. Sounds like they were opening her mail. Can you say Federal Crime?

EnthralledObserver

Those were precisely my thoughts… can the FBI jump in just on this point?

Vistaril

This is Scientology. Lay charges and you will find that either the person concerned has okayed it, and/or signed a document giving permission and/or for every person who claims the crime was committed, there will be ten Scientologists swearing on oath that it wasn’t. Either way, and regardless of the charge, the cult will drag the issue out for so long as to make it uneconomical for the FBI to proceed. Given the parlous state of the US economy and government budgets it would require a far more serious crime and with rock solid evidence to get much past the desk of a junior prosecutor. Alas.

As it happens, there are very few avenues open to the US authorities for laying criminal charges against Scientology. The cult has had 60 years to prepare. About the only one I can think of (IANAL) is conspiracy to commit fraud. Personally, I believe this goes right back to the day L Ron Hubbard said he used Dianetics to cure war injuries. More realisitically, perhaps, is the channel now being created by the Garcias in regard to the Stupor Power scam. I do wonder, though, about that tax exempt status. The actual agreement remains sealed but I understand there are various provisions with regard to refunds and the functioning of cult entities which Scientology is in breach of. Perhaps Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder could lend a hand with this?

Captain Howdy

Not to mention that the U.S political system has been thoroughly corrupted by lobbyists and corporations.

Observer

I still don’t understand why lobbying is even legal.

1subgenius

Lobbying, theoretically, is just talking. I have no problem with just talking.
The real problem is campaign contributions (but other gratuities as well for sure).
When someone is more dependent on contributions than votes, “one person, one vote” no longer applies.
(End of my end of the derail)

RMycroft

There are supposed to be tight restrictions on the lobbying that a tax-free 501(c)(3) religious group can do. So much so that CoS created a front group, Citizens for Social Reform, to specifically bypass that. Later, they let the front group drop since the IRS wasn’t going to touch them anyway.

Wow, I Love Leah and her whole family leaving together,just Awesome ! Just think Tiny d, all the reissues of the tech you’ve made people redo, as you had to correct errors others have made. Now the world’s using it’s tech too, to disseminate the ills of your morally corrupt church. Except ours does actually inform, and help and it’s free ! Tony O probably is your enemy #1 right now,( we know you frequently play musical chairs with your emotions and who you take them out on ) to the rest of us , wogs, exes, never-ins , and soon the World, he’s our Superman and you td are No formidible opponent . What do they sing as their ship goes down ?

Robert Eckert

“Nearer, my Fraud, to thee…”

aquaclara

Today’s articles make for an incredibly deep read. Just a few years ago, much of this stuff was deeply hidden, with just rumors seeping out from the cracks within Scientology. So I am stunned by the amount of research involved in breaking down the destructive secrets of the cult. Furthermore, I hope that any other journalists who read this do attribute their reporting back to Tony-it’s only fair. Tony, you’re giving us your book here every day, and it’s solid and impressive.

Shelley: I’m so glad someone has been in touch with her, to know that she is alive. Yet the degree of control and mind-f*ckery that has taken place is horrifying. She is a victim, and there is a person responsible for holding her captive behind bars and thought-suppression who has not been held accountable for this. FBI-it’s time to step in. Her imprisonment has lasted longer than Tom and Katie’s marriage, sadly.

Private investigators: For the Church of Scientology to attempt even more harassment through the increased use of private eyes on US citizens is stupid. It will be reported here, and the thugs are traceable back to David Miscavage, too. Just more fodder for the FBI. Karen and company, this is another well-done video. The body of work is attracting attention in a good way, or David Miscavage would not be launching retaliatory strikes. Stay safe.

May_West

“use of private eyes on US citizens”
Tax-exempt dollars at work.

sugarplumfairy

I know.. Aaaaggghhhh..

MissCandle

{Uh oh, SPF. I thought you got in big trouble when you “aaaaggghhhh”-ed.} Although I think your response is, and was, entirely appropriate.

DeElizabethan

Right. I like SugarPlum’s …Aaaaaggghhh. and she can do it anytime she feels imo. It gives a nice picture!

aquaclara

Yep, and we barely even get to the tax-exempt mess in all our commenting. It just sits there, eroding our confidence in officials who are supposed to be the keepers of the public trust and wallets.

EnthralledObserver

Time for an in-depth story on the tax-exemption, Tony… just a suggestion.

youbelieveitinyourhead

When Tony’s book comes out, I am buying more than one copy and I will promote it as much as possible. The work he is doing and the way he is encouraging/inspiring others are so important. CO$ will go down one day, and Tony will be a notable part of its downfall.

i-Betty

Nicole Remini blew me away in the interview with MyTalk 107.1. She and the women who interviewed her are epic badasses. I love them, I love them, I love them!

i-Betty

But top of my list of badasses is tiny Karen de la Carriere who opens her perfectly painted lips and lets out a roar that shakes to the core that ridiculous little man in his built-up boots.

*waves a huge KdlC banner*

Go, Karen!

Imelda Marcos

You just know Tom Cruise, worldwide superstar, is in this wife-of-bestfriend-disappearing shite up to his eyeballs. It seems shameful to me that he doesn’t suffer any consequences, or at least some intense questioning.

sugarplumfairy

Absofrigginglutely..

Imelda Marcos

I mean, has anyone ever seriously questioned who he transports around the world on his aircraft? The story he told on Letterman several years ago, where he could not stop laughing, about him and the copilot deciding to taper down the oxygen supply to a guy in the cabin, because they could not get to their destination without more oxygen for the pilot and copilot. He could not stop laughing, and all I can think of now is, who was that poor guy? (starts about 2:32) – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-W3QbWWbbk “It wasn’t dangerous or anything, he was very quiet”. “He was the kind of guy you wanted to be asleep”.

sugarplumfairy

Poor guy.. But that’s what he gets for not being a big being..

Mark

What, like this? (I don’t think it’s shooped)

AnyOldName1

The 3″ difference between the midget and Tommy Boy is great than the 3″ difference in height between Tommy & Katie. Not sure if shooped, but DM may be sitting (Lou looks like she is) or Tommy brought Suri’s bathroom stool with him

Mark

Or else they’re all kneeling in the {overwhelmingly upstat booming to parameters never dreamed before in this or any other multiverse} presence of Shortarse Miscavige, who is so swollen with his own self-importance, that he has temporarily grown three inches taller. [NB: Elevator shoes, ‘liftee’ heel-inserts and bouffant hairdo not included in estimate.]

ThetaBara

There is no apparent height difference between Tom and Katie because Tom has his special shoes on while Katie is in flats.

Missionary Kid

Tom, of course, probably had his boots on. The ones with lifts in them.

Imelda Marcos

Obviously I have a problem with Tom Cruise (weak lol).

sugarplumfairy

You and every other thinking non-scientologist in the world..

ze moo

That whole story smells. Unless pilot and copilot were on oxygen masks, changing the O2 in the cabin would not do anything. Also, cabin O2 is either off or on. I don’t think any aircraft lets you tailor the percentage of cabin O2. Long periods of too little O2 cause brain damage. Is this passenger a drooling fool? Looks like Tom was the one on the reduced O2. I smell total bullshit…..

George Layton

He was on NO2 during the interview. He gets confused at times like those.

Missionary Kid

If they were using oxygen, instead of pressurization, that meant that hey were on masks or cannulas. It’s very possible, depending on the system and altitude, to cut down the oxygen flow without permanent damage.

WWI pilots went to altitudes now considered dangerous, if not unhealthy to gain advantage over their opponents.

Pilots are required to don oxygen masks before their passengers.because hypoxia affects the judgement. Passengers aren’t making flight decisions.

If the passengers weren’t active, the worst that would happen is that they got headaches. (Believe me, it’s not a fun one).

All that being said, Cruise was a jerk for laughing about it.

John P.

What a moron. Obviously he has no clue how things actually work on jets. Planes do not carry their own oxygen supply in big tanks like what he implies. They’re not submarines; they leak like sieves. Air is compressed via induction into scoops on the fuselage, typically near the front, and compressed further via other systems, then heated and delivered to the cabin. You can control the overall pressurization of the cabin, which is typically set to 5,000 feet on commercial flights but you cannot control the ratio of O2 to other gases in the mixture.

The pilots’ supplemental oxygen does work off oxygen tanks, and they hold a number of hours of oxygen, but they are not that big. Too much oxygen in tanks can lead to fire danger in the event of a short circuit in the electrical system. But the pilots’ oxygen system is intentionally kept separate from other systems on the plane for reliability and safety. The tanks are there in the cockpit where the pilots can troubleshoot them. There is no way to turn down the oxygen in the cabin to deliver more oxygen to the pilots, even if the cabin were supplied off tanks, because they would never be connected to the same system.

The emergency oxygen systems in commercial jet cabins are not hooked to an oxygen tank. They are “oxygen generators,” which use a chemical reaction to generate oxygen. These are more reliable and lighter weight than having tanks on board, and since the fuel is a powder, it can’t leak away mid-flight like the gas in a large central tank might.

This is not even a clever made-up story, because it is just so obviously wrong to anyone in the jet-owning public, like we in Global Capitalism HQ.

Imelda Marcos

Aahhh, so you’re saying Tom Cruise flies planes around, but doesn’t really know how the life-support systems work.
And actually, I suppose if pilots need extra oxygen, they probably have separate tanks and masks for that (seems to me I may even have seen photos of this).

ze moo

Travolta is licensed pilot, is Tom Cruise??? I have never heard that TC is a pilot…..

John P.

Tom doesn’t “fly” planes. He is a passenger. Sure, he may own the plane that he is a passenger on, but he is still merely a passenger. He has not invested the time and demonstrated the significant amount of brainpower needed to learn a difficult and dangerous skill: causing 80,000 pounds of aluminum filled with flammable fuel to leap into the air, then navigating that plane at 500+ miles per hour on a precise course through the sky and finishing up by guiding the plane safely back to earth in what is basically a controlled crash.

We in Global Capitalism HQ respect people who not only have the skill to make the money to buy their own jet, but who also have the brainpower to learn to fly it in their spare time. There are perhaps 10,000 private jets in the world, and only a small portion of those are flown by the people that own them, certainly less than 10% and probably less than 5%. I only know a few capitalists that are certified to fly their planes; all of them are not only good pilots but are damned good at their day jobs. I think there’s a correlation.

Imelda Marcos

I know I’ve seen/read/heard arse-kissing stories about him flying his own planes. And in that Letterman clip, he sure made it sound like he was the pilot, and then there was a copilot. You could be right, though.

MissCandle

And then there are aviators like my father who can take off from, and land on, aircraft carriers in the middle of an ocean.

RMycroft

He’s had a pilot’s license since 1994 and owns a P-51 Mustang. (I guess he’s scrubbed “Kiss me Kate” off the side by now.) No word if he has any rating for jets. (Even Travolta is at best a co-pilot on his jets.)

Douchebag owns a Mustang? Where can I get a refurbished TA-152 real cheap?

grundoon

Suppose they set the cabin pressure to 10000 ft. That is less oxygen for the passengers. The pilot puts on an oxygen mask for the prank and so does Tom.

John P.

That is certainly possible. But it would be a little obvious that something was afoot if Cruise were strolling around the cabin with a portable oxygen tank (something that flight attendants use, about the size of a can of tennis balls) and a mask.

grundoon

Tom loves to play Top Gun and dress in a pressure suit and oxygen mask when he goes for a plane ride. His friends don’t think twice about it.

Observer

You’re being glib, John P. YOU don’t know the history of aircraft pressurization tech. HE knows the history of aircraft pressurization tech!

noseinabk

Dang. I was having fun picturing miscavidge in the back of that jet.

Missionary Kid

You’re assuming he was flying a jet. I think he also owns a Bonanza and some other propeller driven aircraft.

Every time TC is a guest on a talk show, my respect for the host goes downhill.

Spackle Motion

Jon Stewart’s credibility jumped down a few notches for me after his interview with Cruise. I know that he’s got to do some puff interviews from time-to-time, but having Cruise on your show and not asking hard questions to someone who promotes an organization like Scientology is bad form.

Stewart’s soggy interview was very disappointing. Any host that has Cruise on their show should ask why he supports a predatory organization that harms children and rips apart families.

BosonStark

In the radio interview with Nicole Remini, older sister of Leah, she says, “I’ve never been someone they were really worried about.” I think that has changed as of this interview, that’s for sure.

The interviewers got a lot of good questions in there, and were well informed about Scientology except they should know “Miscavige” is pronounced Miss-CA-vige with the stress on the second syllable and the CA pronounced like the CA in cat.

Imelda Marcos

Do you think mispronouncing his name will piss him off?

EnthralledObserver

I know it annoyed ME, so I’m betting it really pissed the Dwarf off big time! So, with that in mind, I’m all for it…

AnyOldName1

Nicole Remini never corrected them either Just kept letting them say it wrong.

Aslansown

There’s an interview the next day with another one of their radio personalities who talked to Nicole after the radio broadcast and sounds very knowledgeable about COS. It starts at about 12 minutes in here: http://www.mytalk1071.com/shows/lorijulia

Sandy

This is the station where Ian Punnett works – of Coast to Coast fame. Ian has interviewed Marc Headley several times and is quite knowledgeable about all things Scientological. I would be surprised if Ian wasn’t instrumental in setting up this interview.

Robert Eckert

Starts 10 minutes in, and has a proper shout-out to Tony. Unfortunately somebody told them how to pronounce “Miscavige” (I was loving the MISS-ka-VETCH).

Robert Eckert

OOH! At the end they promise there will be more pieces both on the air and posted on their website, all week long.

DeElizabethan

I thought is was hilarious! Maybe on purpose, he,he

ThetaBara

I find the “Miss Cabbage” euphemism serves as a helpful pronunciation guide.

Lark Smith

The fence image on the compound is really very disturbing – sharp iron spikes to keep the “dedicated” from fleeing. WTF What kind of organization does this kind of shit? It is like a Gothic nightmare- sorry still fairly innocent. Sometimes, I feel like I need to bathe off the creepy, abusive, scary shit I read here. I hope the information everyone is releasing leads to the destruction of this cult. Thanks to everyone that is sharing their experiences and advocating for change.

Imelda Marcos

I know what you mean, I’ve never been a Scientologist, I just watch in horror (and thankfulness for the people who get out and expose this crap).

SandiCorrena

Nice shoes IM!

sugarplumfairy

yep.. Except it’s not a nightmare..

Sherbet

In a YouTube video — might have been one of the Angry Gay Pope’s — one of the security guards is questioned as to why the spikes face inward, and she says it’s because of the bears. I guess we’re to believe they want to keep the bears in the compound. Makes perfect sense. (Insert guffaw here) Also, shortly after the video was shot, we’re told that spikes were either reversed or additional spikes were added to the fence to keep people out.

Lark Smith

The bears can’t leave either – that’s it I’m calling PETA.

Sherbet

Ha! That may be the key to getting the authorities into the place, Lark.

aquaclara

I just knew you could find a laugh for us this morning!

CharlieWaters

Yes, it was an AGP video. I remember laughing pretty hard when I heard the bear excuse.

Sherbet

Thanks for posting the link, Charlie.

CharlieWaters

Thanks for reminding me about that video. I haven’t watched that one in awhile.

Mrs Libnish

Thank YOU! That was like Christmas early with my morning coffee. “Why don’t you use your OT powers to destroyyyy me….Where are you on the Bridge?” I am a fan.

CharlieWaters

My pleasure. I think the reason AGP is so effective in getting under their skins is due to the fact that he used to be a Scilon and knows exactly which buttons to push.

Captain Howdy

They’re protecting the bears from the evil wog hunters

or

The bears are the watch dogs

It all makes perfect sense if you really think about it.

Lark Smith

Sorry, I am a simple Wog and lack greater cognition skills. Thank you for clarafying things for me. ROFL

Sherbet

Sure, until they want to put Yogi on the pic-a-nic basket rundown.

George Layton

Once again co$ has ripped off the ideas of others. The Adventure of the Speckled Band. (Arthur Conan Doyle)

Ms. B. Haven

Here’s my favorite quote from today’s post:

“In the past year, once questions were raised about Shelly following the Cruise-Holmes split, the church, through its attorneys, has said numerous times that Shelly is not “missing,” and that she has been working hard for the church.”

Oh, I bet she has been working hard for the church, very hard…

April Walsh

It’s saddening, thinking of her working away, hearing of the kind of conditions they keep people out of favor in, all the while telling herself she deserves it. She’s a slender woman already in the pictures I’ve seen. I’d hate to see what she looks like after living and working in lower conditions.

Sherbet

Another thoroughly researched post, Tony.

BosonStark

So what is Shelly doing to preserve the word of Dr. Hubtard — plate polisher? Maybe she translates texts into languages spoken by extraterrestrials? Stat keeper — keeps track of words on plates, how many are plates are buried, what?

For me, the interview with Nicole Remini, Leah’s sister, put a whole new perspective on the degree to which the cult is falling apart.If there are too many people inside who are thinking like Nicole is — that critically — this will be a major crisis for the cult. Leah is going to awaken those feelings in many more just from what she has done already.

Before Haggis, people used to just disconnect from other clams as ordered to, but I think there’s going to be a shift in that now as more members, including some people connected to celebrities like Leah, are going to ask themselves why they are doing this? Also, they are going to be increasingly confronted by the public and members of the press with these questions.

This radio interview with Nicole, has there ever been anything like it with a Scilebrity’s sister who was also raised in the “Church,” speaking out like this?

John P.

Perhaps Shelly is the Semicolon Burnisher I/C, responsible for making sure that the all-important semicolons, when embossed in the plates, are of sufficient depth that they won’t be mistaken for commas by any member of a future Marcabian invader force.

Captain Howdy

What sort of real technology could they be using to make the plates?

grundoon

They phone in a special order to the Franklin Mint. Hubbard’s pearls of wisdom come back engraved on little spoons.

Sherbet

Hence the old cliche: “Gag me with a spoon”

Sherbet

A Mattel Vacuform (You must be THIS old to understand the joke.)

John P.

LOL re Franklin Mint.

I read an article a while back, but a quick search does not turn it up today. It was an interview with a small metalworking firm that was one of those contracted for the work. Apparently, it was a photo-resist process where a picture was taken of the page to be preserved, then the negative was used to “print” an acid-resistant coating on a sheet of titanium. After “developing” the photo-resist mask, the plate is washed in acid that eats away the metal where the letters are supposed to go; the photo resist keeps the background from being etched. Once the letters reach the correct depth, the mask is removed and the plate is done. It’s a tedious process but even in the digital age, it’s pretty similar to what’s been done for a hundred years or more.

This is similar to how silicon chips are made (though the extremely small features of a chip require incredibly complex variations of what is a relatively simple process when performed at human scale).

Captain Howdy

“LOL re Franklin Mint.”

So they’re redeemable in Sierra Leone?

Thanks.

Robert Eckert

Oh, it’s a much more difficult task: she has to remove all those erroneous semicolons that Dave found had been mistakenly included. Do you know how difficult it is to erase something engraved on a metal plate? She has to melt down some titanium, carefully pour a precisely-sized droplet of molten metal, and smooth down the area until the eye cannot see any sign that anything had ever been there: not just any eye mind you, but an OT eye with all its perceptics!

grundoon

They must be finished with Hubbard’s crap by now. How long have they been working on it? 25 years? By now, they must be working on getting David Miscavige’s tape-recorded rants transcribed onto stainless steel plates and gold CDs. Shelly can’t come out until the job is finished, which will take a while since Dave never shuts up.

shasha40

Don’t forget the revisions, The golden age of tech, the Newer golden age of techand the newest golden age of knowledge .

CharlieWaters

I never considered that, but it would make sense that DM would want a bunch of his verbal diarrhea preserved for posterity. I’m sure future generations and/or space aliens will want to hear or read all about Ideal Org openings.

Something tells me, though, that DM’s 1992 interview with Ted Koppel won’t make it into the archives.

shasha40

” plate polisher” , bahahahahaha !

ReneeG

According to the interview, it appears as if Leah also had the temerity to call out David Miscavige’s relationship with his “assistant” (communicator) Laurisse. I suppose people aren’t supposed to notice that they sleep in the same room? There are pics of them together with Tom and Katie in this thread at WWP:

Rene…..your right! DM is worried that Leah will contact Karen, mike or Marty. And from there her story would go out to millions via the Internet, then get picked up by the main stream media. Oh yeah!! He must be pooping in his big boy panties!

1subgenius

Her story would obviously get widest publicity by just going straight to the media.

shasha40

Nah, she needs to talk to an Ex or Tony. Someone that comprehends the layers of the onion, which obviously mainstream media doesn’t seem to be. And with Scions litigation tactics, the network lawyers would ” cherry pick ” what could and won’t be aired.Has she called you back Tony ?

1subgenius

The media is chomping at the bit to talk to Leah.

shasha40

They’re picking the stories up , no doubt , but a 5 minute whittling down of info they don’t fully comprehend…guess I’m biased . They have to come here for more backfround info . How far down the hole will they go ?

1subgenius

It doesn’t matter. A couple of good sound bites would be devastating and lead to long term damage.

shasha40

True, but I told you I’m biased, I just want Tony to do it. I have an addiction to the Bunker, no time to surf when the hits keep coming here !

shasha40

But is she chomping to talk to them ? That is the question…

ReneeG

Just leaving this here….

stateofcircle

That’s a really good point about the PI’s, I never considered that and was wondering about it. I just figured they were trying to find out if the SP Mafia were talking to media or they were trying to spook them (which is just pointless).

I didn’t know that Laurisse and His Midgetsy slept in the same room. I know he has that palatial suite at Int that has several rooms, so I guess the line would be that she stays there, since she has to be around him 24/7 and his hours are erratic. My usually successful searching skills have failed me when trying to find info on Laurisse and their relationship beyond the above pictures and her divorce from Uwe. I love me some trashy gossip, so any links to info about The Amibiguously Gross Duo would be greatly appreciated :).

Robert Eckert

Downboy!

Jgg2012

DM’s achilles heel is a celebrity who was in, but is now out. He/she understands the fraud; was close to other celebrities, etc; if Kirstie is willing to talk to Leah or Katie Holmes, well…

AustinTxGal

I don’t accept the excuse that religious fervor is responsible for the
choices these people make. Shelly Miscavich is a free woman in a free
country CHOOSING the life she’s lived. For the longest time I couldn’t
understand why law enforcement wouldn’t investigate because if they did
surely there would be charges brought against the psycho in charge. But
the truth is – they choose what they subject themselves to and if
losing/harming your family and being held captive isn’t enough
motivation to get out I don’t know what is. All these stories I’ve heard
are about people who were quite happy to be a part of this until things
go horribly wrong – as is wont to happen when a nutcase is in charge –
like Tommy Davis. HE was brutal, evil, and absolutely criminal in his
behavior and I suspect that youi could say the same thing about Shelly
before things went wrong. I’ve read the descriptions of her – and she
was cruel – just not as cruel as her husband. When you choose to destroy people you can rot in whatever hell is closest.

EnthralledObserver

I have to agree to a point… the only use I have for finding Shelly and releasing her is that some blowback might stain her evil hubby’s designer suit and cause him to be legally accountable.

Lark Smith

I also agree to a point. But this group/cult/business appears to have great mindfuck “tech”, victims become perpetrators.

Sherbet

AustinTxGal, as we’ve learned here in the Bunker, the stories are much more complicated than that. Shelly’s body may be free to leave (“may be” — we don’t know that for sure, because we know some people have had to escape, literally, sneaking out at night or through gates that were about to close), but her mind is locked up in a prison built and encouraged by lrh’s legacy.

Vistaril

Have a read of Lawrence Wright’s book “Going Clear”. Its not subtitled “Scientology, Hollywood, and the prison of belief” for no reason. I understand exactly why many hold the opinion you’ve expressed and it is one of the frustrating things about explaining Scientology to those with little knowledge of the way it works. L Ron Hubbard knew that, too. He once wrote . . .

. . . Incredulity of our data and validity. This is our finest asset and gives us more protection than any other single thing. If certain parties thought we were real we would have infinitely more trouble . . .

. . . and the sad fact is that if I turned up at “The Hole” in Goldbase tomorrow morning with a bus and announced that anyone who wanted to leave could do so, chances are, no one there would.

Peter

For the 3rd time this evening, see Mike Rinder’s blog today as he answers the questions of “why don’t they see it” extremely well.

http://lliira.dreamwidth.org/ Lliira

She should be held accountable for her actions by the law, not by some jackass who flouts the law and the foundation of government and civil society by imprisoning people himself. It doesn’t matter how terrible someone is; no one but the government has the right to imprison them. And allowing it for some people, for whatever reason, totally undermines everything that keeps us a civil society at the most basic level.

Bob

ATG, yes I am sure she was cruel. I assume you were never in Clamatology or only for a short while. The nature of brainwashing and the slow indoctrination of any cult is to turn good people into bad robots. Tommy Davis was a good kid. I assume you knew him when he was young so you know for fact he was evil from the git go.
You speak with a lack of compassion that tells me that you also have a lack of knowledge about what you speak of. Most people do not start out cruel, they are taught to be that way. Yes we all have the choice but many of us are trusting souls and gullible to a fault. As a result skilled liars and criminals are able to perpetrate these cultish crimes. Crimes that exploit and abuse good people who then go insane and do bad things.

Bob

The church has to constantly re-write its history, revise its training and marketing films and remove the names of major contributors to its growth. That is a great deal of prevaricating to do on a continuos basis. Hardly any time for disseminating the truth?

shasha40

True and they’re still no where near the 21st century. It’s still all 1950’s era regurgitation.

Mark

Another telling scoop! Keep them coming, Tony.

Further to BosonStark’s questions below, just which version of Tubbo Sluggard’s carefully preserved verbal diarrhoea is poor deluded/victimised Shelly helping to preserve for posterity?

The original one? The one where they put all the ‘missing’ commas and semi-colons back in? The one where they took them all back out again? The limited-edition leather-bound Golden Shower of Dreck one? A yet-to-be-released Codex Siniaticus/New International/red-letter King James version (probably coming horribly soon to an Org near you)?

If this Sisyphean task is supposed to ensure that $cientology survives a nuclear holocaust (and isn’t just another way for Miscavige to squander his ill-gotten gains) who’s going to be left to dig the Hubbardry out, eh?

By Xenu and all his little demons, it makes the ‘Book of Mormon’ look positively credible!

But then, this is probably how Miscavige sees himself these days:

Mark

P.S. Well said, Karen, and don’t let the OSA bastards grind you down!

Sherbet

Mark, whatever did we do without you??

Mark

(Blushes beetroot red)

cicely neville

What Sherbet said!
I have to smile at LDS ‘art’. Check out the embellished T shirt on this patriarchal-but-sexy looking guy. Is that cool or what. Proves he’s in America.

Sid_Sn

I fully expect that in some way Shelley will soon be “produced”. DM knows this issue isn’t going to go away, and the sooner he “produces” her, the sooner the church PR goons can refer to her appearance at some event or other as “proof” that she’s alive and well. I also imagine that DM will want an internal pack put together to show to anyone who starts asking about Shelley from within the church.

She can have no idea that her disappearance has caused so much trouble for the church, or that so many people are concerned for her well-being. She’s just slaving away at her job, being kept out of sight so that her so-called husband can enjoy sexual relationships with whomever he pleases.

The sad thing is that even if she were asked if she was being held against her will, she would deny it.

It’s important to educate the media about that – they need to understand that when Shelley is “produced” she will appear to be ok. The demands should be that not only is she “produced”, but that she is allowed to spend some time with a specialist welfare team or something like that, and that this must be without the supervision of church goons.

George Layton

The stunted being will probably just have her photo-shooped into some event.

Peter Robinson

Can we get the contents of Underground Bunker and other sites, books and articles critical of scifiology etched onto steel plates, secured in titanium boxes and buried safely, so that potential archaeologists of the future do not get a one sided view of history and spark off a future revival of Hubbardidiocy? One might hope that fture generations may be wiser than to fall for religious nonsense, let alone the gospels of the Loony Rotten Huckster, but just in case…………………….

Good idea! (there’s rather a lot of dried-on cat-food deposits still on my cans).

EnthralledObserver

Night all… off to bed to dream of Scieno crumble… sounds delicious!

Mark

May flights of angels/exteriorised thetans wing you to your sleep.

TheWidowDenk

In keeping with Tony’s fine narrative about Shelly, I can add the following information. Shelly (and David Miscavige) attended the Writers of the Future Awards event, Friday August 20, 2004, at the Beverly Hills Hotel. I did not meet up with, nor speak with, either of them as I was far below their “station,” but I saw an after-event photo book in the Writers of the Future office which included their photo.

To put this all in perspective to my own narrative, early 2004 was when Dr Denk fell ill. By the time of the August 20th Awards event I was on full time home care and had to have someone step in so I could leave the house to attend. Dr Denk passed away early November 2004. Neither Shelly nor David attended the memorial service.

Sherbet

It seems that people get discarded like used Kleenex when they no longer can do anything for cos. Sad story, Mrs. Denk.

ze moo

That statement sums up all of scientology.

shasha40

Yep, what else can we expect from the Most ethical people on the planet ! Ha !

GlibWog

Karen Black came to mind.

Mrs Libnish

And THAT is what you will get out of being loyal to Scientology. Just when I thought I couldn’t be anymore disgusted. I’m sorry you both were treated like that.

sugarplumfairy

I amazes me the he considers himself above your or anyone else’s “station..” does he have any measure of insight at all?

Bradley Greenwood

This has just gotten to the point where I am pissed-off, and wondering what our “fabulous” legal system is waiting for. Depriving someone of their liberty is still a federal offense, right?

HeatherGraceful

Leah rocks. Seriously.

ze moo

The E! network comedy show ‘Chelsea Lately’ (Chelsea Handler) did 5 minutes last night on Leah Remini. Chelsea said that when she was doing the ‘Katie Holmes got away from Scientology’ stories, Lean was the only one who called her and tried to get her to stop making fun of CO$. The best line last night was that italian people aren’t afraid of scientology because they all know mafia people.

I bet many other tabloid TV shows have mentioned the Remini story. The additional fallout of ‘where’s Shelly’ has educated more public with what the clams do. Miscaviges treatment of Lean has caused an epic fail. Will he be held responsible for it??? The turd is circling the drain much faster now…..

Missionary Kid

Entertainment Tonight did a show on it last Friday, but they didn’t do any follow-up. It was kind of weak, but Co$ didn’t come out well.

Spackle Motion

Nicole Remini is still massively uninformed about the Cult. I really hope she starts to do a lot of reading because she needs to peel that onion a lot more.

California

The celebrities had always been treated with kid-gloves while in or if they left very quietly. The ones who left more noisily like Jason Beghe or Paul Haggis got rougher treatment. And others who had once been in, left quietly and then took a stand questioning SCN about some policies or in some way refused to “toe the line” also were treated badly, albeit usually privately. And I do not know of a single one who went back.

But this treatment of Leah Remini by her fellow celebrities who are still in SCN is so public that, I think, those on the border-line of leaving but willing to stay around for the perceived benefits or “go-along-to get along” must now be questioning what is going on and is it worth it to stay. And please note that while Kirstie is noisy, in terms of TC and JT…. not a word from them.

Leah may be shocked and hurt at her treatment by her former friends but she is by now finding out that she has 10 new friends for every one that has turned their backs to her. The ex and indie world is well-populated. And those that turned their backs on her should be wondering when they will be attacked next.

And in terms of the hurt of SCN family members still in…. for some this may be the reasons to leave. For others, it may take longer or they may stay in. That will be their loss.

Best of luck to you, Leah. You stood up for your friend Shelley and by doing so taught millions what SCN is all about at this time.

SandiCorrena

Is BTN home?

Robert Eckert

Apparently she is resolved to take a break for a while, but not abandon us forever.

iHateDuplicity

Sad as it is, I think commenters here and on ESMB are going to have to remember how insular and isolated Scientologists are from all this “entheta” on the news and pleas of “Where’s Shelly?” They literally have NO CLUE this is going on in the media and elsewhere because they will not look at it EVER. Even with all this Leah Remini news plastered all over the Internet (which is awesome!!!), the staff and public in the local org literally have NO IDEA this is even going on. I wish the predictions of “it’s all coming apart” were true but I think it’s going to take a bigger event than this to really reach them. Meanwhile, rest assured that no one in Scn management is going to let Shelly anywhere near a camera or media until it is absolutely necessary and not without being thoroughly rehearsed as to exactly precisely what she is going to say. Then she will be trotted back to the isolation that she is herself allowing herself to be put under.

DeElizabethan

All you say is sad but true! They pay no attention and even if hear/see rumors, they don’t believe them. Little by little… and we don’t forget, but keep hammering at this mountain of corruption and truth will win out.

Marc Headley

For anyone that wants a preview into David Miscavige’s self-centered pea brain, here is one from the archives…

Around 2003 Tom Cruise was heading to a celeb filled birthday party and let Dave Miscavige tag along. Pretty sure it was for Missy Elliot. Among the attendees were Oprah, John Travolta, Will Smith, & former US president Bill Clinton. The buzz was all over the Int Base about this party. Supposedly Dave was seated at Oprah’s table and this gave him great pleasure.

After returning to the Int Base Dave Miscavige was recounting the story and telling how “Tom Cruise was opening doors” for Dave that no one else could. After Dave was done telling how he was palling around with all these famous people, Dave remembered what one staffer had inquisitively asked him, “So – it is true you met Bill Clinton?” “No”, Dave answered. “He met ME!”

That is Dave Miscavige is a nutshell. His “wife” Shelly is a liability and a distraction. At the Int Base there is a single handling for distractions – remove them. Period.

This whole Shelly thing has been going on for years. Leah Remini might just make this his worst nightmare. If Shelly has to return to the public eye, she will most likely hear about all of this and all hell will break loose. Shelly long suspected Dave was fooling around with other girls at the Int Base. When she hears about all this his escapades for the last 7-8 years, he’s toast.

Spackle Motion

I’m glad that the media isn’t letting this story go anytime soon.

Lark Smith

I wonder how many invites he’ll get now- outside the celebratards that worship him.. He must be PR toxic waste for people outside Lyingtology. Wow, lifestyles of the rich and demented.

Observer

Since Bill Clinton is 6’2″, I’m surprised he could even *see* Davey.

Here’s some fun: go to Google and type in “how tall is” and see what comes up first.

Spackle Motion

I didn’t realize that Clinton was that tall. That explains a few things for me.

Captain Howdy

Like his ability to handle heavy objects?

Observer

Ooo, burn!

Casabeca

Hi Spackle.
I noticed a map to the Rodeo from here last night and tried to sign up, but not at all sure it loaded correctly. I opened a gmail acct with usual name. References cheerfully provided upon request. You can also check my twitter feed if you like. Experience includes Flunk getting upset with me this week, but I think we worked it out :-). Thank you in advance if you can help me with this. No rush…I can try to sign in next week.
Your fellow Bunker addict,
Rebecca

Spackle Motion

Hi Casabeca, I didn’t see a request from you….strange. I just double checked. You can send your email address to me at deckardcain.stayandlisten@gmail.com and I will send you an invite.

Minion Gayle

*snicker*

Marc Headley

That is rich! Tweeting it now…

sugarplumfairy

Lol..

OTVIIIisGrrr8!

Glad-handing former wog president Bob Clinton rushed over at the party to meet COB RTC David Miscavige and have his picture taken with him. COB is a rock star ecclesiastical leader and all world leaders want their photo taken with him.

Do you know what year that photo of Miscavige was taken? And how rare are photos of her generally?

TonyOrtega

Very rare, Richard. I’ve been posting several recently that were taken by Claudio and Renata Lugli, who were clothes designers for Shelly and Dave. The photos were taken in the late 1990s or about 2000, I think.

AnyOldName1

I’d say the styles fit that time frame. Vaguely remember the brief period scarves as headbands was in vogue. Hillary tried it for a while as a post-handband look.

stateofcircle

Scarves are always en vogue, darling :). I suspect the photos were taken at Casa di Lugli judging from the drapery and furniture, as well as the scarf in this picture. Very Italian. It seems she is modeling various pieces of clothing Claudio artfully made for her in these pictures.
Moar

” ‘The days of the internet as a cosy, private, intellectual cocktail party are over,’ technology magazine Wired prophetically declared in 1995.”

I thought that’s what the Bunker was, what with people swapping recipes for thyme martinis? Still, what does ‘Wired’ know – they should maybe update their name to ‘Fibred’ or ‘WiFied’?

Missionary Kid

I’ve missed you. Glad to see you back.

villagedianne

When one is in a group with a strong Us vs. Them mentality, it’s easy to become addicted to the drama. I think that is what happened to Kirstie Alley. I only hope she wakes up to the trap soon.

Noah Miller

I lived in Arrowhead, Blue Jay to be specific for a year, in 2011-2012. It’s a beautiful town and a good portion of the people there are utterly unaware of the Scientology presence. I discovered the compound by accident by pulling into the driveway when I took a wrong turn on my way to Crestline. The cameras, the fences and the instant weird look I got from the person at the guard shack worried me. The next day they put a tractor in the driveway keeping anyone from entering. I have no idea if that had anything to do with me. A little googling later and it made a LOT of sense.

It’s an interesting place, there are a lot of religious compounds in the SB mountains. A few within spitting distance of the Sci complexes as well. If you’re looking to escape that place, I don’t think it’s very likely. Even with the Rim Of The World right at your feet, with all those cars passing by it just doesn’t have the foot traffic that Gold Base has in order slip through the gates. The fences are scary as hell. The whole place is right at the snowline for most of the winter months so you’re not going to brave freezing to death nearly 4 months out of the year….

It’s a hell of a place for fancy looking prison.

SP ‘Onage

“Says She’ll Get Out “Only One Way.” What? In a body bag? Is that what she means?

Snuzey

That’s what I took it as…

SP ‘Onage

This just gets creepier and creepier.

Victoria Pandora

Scientology; creating enemies where there were none before. BLOWBACK, Baby!

AKlein

Jason Beghe said in his awesome video something about the most effective prison is the prison of the mind. Sci adds some gruesome spikes on the fence just to make sure!

Karen, you rule! You explain sciloontology so concisely and with humor. You are a mighty warrior!

Michael Leonard Tilse

One word. Come closer. Just one word. Are you ready? “Community Property State”

1subgenius

Another reason Miscavige doesn’t want a divorce. And all the other shit that would come out about him.
More reasons to “FREE SHELLY!”

ze moo

Getting a non-disclosure agreement out of a divorce is very easy. Just pay on a yearly basis for ‘good conduct’. The whole shelly thing just smacks of a power trip.

1subgenius

We’re all whores, and we’re just quibbling about the money.
And her attorney? Gotta get paid.
(I’m suggesting that there would be some discovery and negotiation involved. Especially depending on the circumstances of her escape.)

ze moo

You suggest that Shelly is in charge of her faculties and has a sense of what her interests are. After 7 or 8 years of North Korean ‘thought reform’, she will not have that insight. Any divorce deal between her and Davey will be very one sided and entirely in Daveys favor. I would hope that Shelly has at least a personality left, but I need to see proof first.

Never even considered that angle! Should have remembered why Catholic priests couldn’t marry, would have diluted church assets through inheritance. Good eye MichaelLT.

1subgenius

Community property does not include the property of others.

Casabeca

Which would be everything!

Michael Leonard Tilse

But would include any ‘salary’ paid to him, and any of those “retirement” options he has been putting away for himself. At the very least a court would have to figure out what was the {church’s} and what was his, which would open some eyes. He’s never had a job, yet, (I think it was Jesse Prince said) he has a safe full of gold bars. If she had representation, it could get very interesting.

1subgenius

I was referring to the allusion to Catholic priests.

Michael Leonard Tilse

Ah, I get it. Thanks.

AnonymousSP

What a beautifully prepared synopsis. To all the new readers just remember that yes, it is a creepy cult and you’re not the only one who thinks this way. Read all the testimonies from ex-members, especially the ex-Sea Org members who spend their lives servicing the rich and famous.

dagobarbz

You’re wrong about those spikes facing inwards at the CST compound in Twin Peaks. Anon Orange (Annoying Orange?) has video of a staff member inside the fence answering his question about the inward facing spikes.
“Why are there spikes on the inside?” he asks.
“Because of bears,” she replies. Apparently they love and cherish their bears and do not wish them to leave.

Sherbet

Yup, we covered that earlier, dagobarbz. There’s a link to the video, too.

Lark Smith

New protest -FREE THE BEARS Davey!

Captain Howdy

“Where’s da Bears?”

Sherbet

Eating a chicken leg; you should know that.

Sherbet

I love it!

RMycroft

Or the Int Base excuse: “That’s the way they were installed.”

Damn those crazy contractors!

stateofcircle

Well, that’s technically not a lie…
Those silly Scientologists and their acceptable truths….

ze moo

Posted before, but still a good one.

John P.

Apparently they love and cherish their bears and do not wish them to leave.

The same could be said of the clientele of a number of bars in Provincetown on Cape Cod.

Yes, another victim that has turned into a perpetrator. Or he is even dumber then I believed him to be.

stateofcircle

I think that, if they do produce her for public consumption, they will invent some thetatastic project she is working on that is just SOO important and earth-shattering that she has no time for silly, insignificant things like having a relationship with her husband or family or going outside. To most outsiders it will seem plausible, and it will satiate the clams, getting them to think not of her disappearance, but of the “amazing” garbage she “accomplished”. And, sadly, she will go along with it, believing it to be the greatest good and hopelessly hoping she will get back into her husband’s good graces.

Bob

Yes, that is exactly what they do. We may see the poor women get trotted out like our poor POWs that the Koreans trotted out in that war. She will say whatever they say she should say. The methods of evil men do not change.

1subgenius

Maybe she’ll surreptitiously give the “Hawaiian Good Luck Sign” or some other clue.

. During the USS Pueblo incident, the captured American crewmembers often discreetly gave the finger in staged photo ops, thus ruining the North Koreans’ propaganda efforts. The North Koreans, ignorant of what the gesture meant, were at first told by the prisoners that it was a “Hawaiian Good Luck Sign”, similar to “hang loose”.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finger_(gesture)

ze moo

Eventually, the North Koreans read a US paper or magazine and found out what the finger meant. The Pueblo crew was beaten to a pulp for that gesture.

Mr. Fabulous

I’m sorry, and I know I’ve said this before, but that HAS to be David Miscavige in drag!

Mark

Nah… COB likes to kick back at Madam JoJo’s when he’s in London:

RMycroft

Bah! More darned names for the Twin Peaks location!

By the way, as far as any reports go, the work on the Wyoming location was stopped in 2009. However, being as hard to stop as cockroaches, I wouldn’t be shocked if they completed it with or without the required permissions. Still, they’ve managed to stay off the news radar if they have completed it.

I like to skim through the comments sections when there are on-line scn stories in sites like Huff Post. Am I imagining things or are there much, much fewer “Oh, yeah? Scientology is no more wacky than…” posts showing up? Could this mark a turning point, that people are gradually getting the message that scientology is no religion, and its practices go beyond wacky all the way into evil? If so, I offer a cautiously optimistic “Hooray!”

Robert Eckert

I think actually there are just as many “Scientology is no more wacky than…” posts as ever except that now they are buried by the avalanche of other posts. A few of those posts may come from genuine Angry Atheists who hate all religions but most come from our {old friends} “I’m not a Scientologist but” and “Just asking questions here”, and they are getting stretched thin having to get to ALL the articles with comments threads that are popping up all over the Interwebs.

Sherbet

OK, Rob, then I guess I AM imagining things, with a dollop of wishful thinking.

Robert Eckert

Per comment thread, it looks like it’s exactly as you say. There are a lot of thread where none of our {old friends} show up at all, because there are not enough of them to play catch-up with everything they would need to cover. The new HP story doesn’t have a single apologist comment on it yet:

After 26 comments on the HuffPo thread we do get “Religion is a fairy tale. All religion. Every religion. How can otherwise intelligent, clear thinking human beings believe all that nonsense?”

Peter

Again, see Mike Rinders article today on precisely why they do and hang in.

Robert Eckert

So out of curiosity, I speed-skimmed through three comment threads that were linked to from here recently on the Alley Catfight: Celebitchy had 180 responses and I had to go down to #64 to find “you are a very naive person if you think that the CO$ is at heart any different than any other major religion”; Daily Mail had 306 and I was about at 150 before “Kinda like the Amish when they shun an ex-member. Except the Amish do believe in God” which is not really apologetic for Scientology but the closest I could find,
and Crazy Days and Nights had 75, with one such post drawing immediate pushback
“@DAMD, your statement – “When we grow up as a culture we will realize that all organized religion is a scam and let go of it then we will grow as people” is pretty pompous.

Agnosticism/atheism may work for you and that’s great, but that’s no reason to piss on other people’s beliefs and the good that comes from them. Was Rev. Martin Luther King a scam artist? Gandhi? Dorothy Day?” So such posts are still scattered around: are they fewer in total number than before, or just harder to find because they are buried in such a tidal wave of anti-Scientology now?

Missionary Kid

Any posts like that are much harder to find because of all of the revelations about Co$ that have come to light. When the evil of Co$ is revealed, anger and disgust are the results.

My attitude is basically, “Whatever floats your boat,” but I know some atheists who are former Christians who are angry at the persecution they’ve endured from their former friends and relatives when they decided to leave or the people in their community who are devout. They definitely piss on anything to do with Christianity.

No one can give any proof of an afterlife. It is a matter of faith whether it exists or doesn’t. To some, a declaration that there is one is as pompous as one you feel that states there isn’t. It is a matter of faith.

Older European societies have a much more jaundiced view of religion than we do, according to polls measuring the attitudes on religion that are compared with attitudes in the U.S.

Contemporary attitudes in Christianity have changed from the empire-building reign of the popes, but along with the charities and mercy that are dispensed is a measure of cultural imperialism. I’ve witnessed it, both from my parents and Catholicism and other sects and denominations.

Peter

I personally have had experience of an afterlife. More than once. At the point of the first one, I lost the “faith” that there *might* be one and stepped over a mental and emotional line into *knowing* something for myself. The problem of “proof” is that no one can provide proof of an experience. So “science”, as such, is not a valid tool here, to my way of thinking. I don’t really care if no one believes what I experienced and have never had the need to defend it. Mostly I never talk about it.

Can you say that you love someone? Prove it. You cannot prove nor disprove such things. They are experiential. Oh, you can say that so and so treated someone very well and claim that as “loving”. But that is just your own perception of what you think is proper or improper.

As for “God”, one can believe or not believe, as noted above. The concept can neither be proven or proven false. Organized religions, tend to try and enforce belief or use group think to make one fall into line. “Hating” religions is merely a reverse connection to them, just as powerful as believing IN one is.

The czerch is one of the more rabid and controlling ones with something of an extremely disturbed maniac in control. From my point of view it’s sad as I knew a lot of caring, compassionate and helpful people when I was in. The grub for money was not nearly so strong as it became in the early 80s. The SO, back then, really had no direct connection with the lower orgs. That came later.

Missionary Kid

I’ve also had the personal rapture of conversion. That was an experience.

I’ve also had out of body experience, and they can all be explained by physiological conditions. I won’t debate you on your experience, but I will point you to:

My out of body experiences were, IMO, my mind trying to make sense of something that didn’t immediately make sense. I’ve had them with hypoxia, G-loc, Anesthesia, lack of sleep, and a few other conditions. Your mileage may vary.

John P.

You had a G-LOC? I’m envious. I’ve flown aerobatics a few times but managed to hold up under 5-6 g’s. Never done aerobatics in a jet and had a shot at pulling 6+ so I could have my very own G-LOC experience…

Missionary Kid

Centrifuge. It holds the Gs much longer than most aerobatics, because it takes longer to speed up and slow down.

DeElizabethan

Wahoo! Really nice.

noseinabk

I was thinking the same thing this morning
after looking over 7 or 8 comment sections ( radar, huff po ) . I was looking for one in particular but he has given up, at least on the newest articles

Karen715

Though I actually have no real problem with your comment, I feel it is my duty as an angry atheist (lowercase version) to point out that “Scientology is no more wacky than…” is not a logical atheist argument. Atheists who want to see the world free of religion are just as contemptuous of Scientology as they are of all religions, and wouldn’t be giving it a pass in that way.

Robert Eckert

Well, I’m talking about Angry Atheists in the capital letters version, the ones who don’t really use logical arguments but need to vent emotional contempt at Christianity in particular even when it is not the subject of the discussion.

Karen715

Oh, like those who bring up atheism, when it is not the subject of the discussion. I see.

Robert Eckert

The subject of the discussion is “Scientology is no more wacky than [….]” posts and where they come from. Some of them do indeed come from atheists of a particular sort.

Sherbet

Karen, Robert isn’t skewering atheists or Atheists. He is correct that atheists have, indeed, used the “Scientology is no more wacky than…” here and in comments sections of other sites. He was making a point about who uses that specious argument, and, yes, atheists have done so. You’re making an argument where there is none, and Robert is an intelligent, fair, and reasonable poster here in the Bunker.

Karen715

Okay. I have quite a bit of respect for Robert as a poster, and I’m not really making an argument. It is just that in the past, I’ve seen comments here about atheists (from others) that have rubbed me the wrong way. In fact, I had hesitated to post here because of them, and even wrote to Tony (several months ago) about it.

I don’t want others to feel as I did. Not all of us are fire-breathing faith fighters; I myself am quite shy and retiring. So I prefer to counter what I perceive as negative commentary when I see it.

So peace to you and Robert, and I’m happy to drop it now.

Sherbet

Peace back atcha, Karen. If one feels disrespected, he/she should speak up, and you did. People of faith have seen the same thing (ridicule and disrespect) happen to us in the Bunker, but we can’t take it all personally.

Postscript: My dear, sweet son is a long-time atheist, and I’m a church goer, and we co-exist nicely. I expect nothing less in the Bunker! Aretha said it best: R E S P E C T

1subgenius

I once asked a high level Vatican cleric, “Father, can an atheist go to heaven?”
His answer aligned with a recent church proclamation, “Yes”. (Other faiths disagree FWIW)
My rejoinder, “Then what’s the point?”
Trufax.

Robert Eckert

Karen715, I AM somewhat of an “angry atheist” myself; when I’m posting over at HuffPo, I am usually lambasting Christians of the fundamentalist or arch-Catholic or Mormon types on the same-sex marriage thread, or the Muslims on Middle East politics threads. But I also know many Christians who actually resemble Jesus in some respects (and have had my back when I was in trouble), and see that the Catholics run most of the soup-kitchens and homeless shelters in my city, know Muslims who are not at all into bloodshed or medieval ignorance, etc.

Captain Howdy

The “scientology is no more wacky” argument that atheists make is based on the idea that most atheists believe that religious practices should be protected by the law, while at the same time they believe all religion is equally absurd.

One of my main problems with that argument is the fact that, while any religion can certainly be argued to be wacky make-believe and unfairly rigid, often times when people are making the comparison to Judaism and Christianity the examples that they cite are hundreds of years old. Of course there are still crazy cults and extreme sects of zealotry besides Scientology that currently exist, the majority of people identify with one of the big three religions and practice their religion by going to church, praying, donating what they can, and trying to lead a life that is good. So it drives me insane when I read people citing things like the Inquisition, the whole Henry VIII debacle, burning “witches” at the stake, extreme forced tithing, and all the atrocities that occurred in the Middle Ages. While of course these things and much more did actually happen and were absolutely terrible, we as humans have evolved beyond it and learned from our mistakes of the past. In general, for a majority of the population, it is simply not feasible for a person’s religion to control every aspect of their life, take all of their money and abuse them, and the only way these religions could possibly survive is if they evolved to meet the changing times and needs of people and society. We know from history that the things I mentioned above make for a royally shitty existence and we want no part of it. Moreover, it would be impossible for any society to grow, change, evolve and even function if practicing their religion meant having it consume your life in every way possible. Nothing would get done. Industry, technology, education… How could anyone get anything accomplished? Just look at Scientologists: yeah, there are some successful ones, but how many of them have either gone bankrupt or are close to it, or work on staff because they were convinced going to college and/or getting/having a real job is useless, or just ignore and don’t participate in any outside knowledge or ideas? Can you imagine if this was the norm for the general population? How many inventions would have never even been a thought, which would create an epic domino effect of fail and poverty? Human rights abuses being not only normal, but ingrained and expected? And I shudder to think about medicine and healthcare. If you look at pretty much any of the radical, cult-y religious sects of today, what do you see? Poverty, abuse, poor health, little to no technology or education or access to information.

My point is, we as humans learned that these kinds of behaviors and practices ultimately don’t work, and beyond that are counterproductive, abusive and detrimental to society. So we have taken that information and learned how to sustain religion with an ever-changing, ever-growing and ever-improving world, allowing it to evolve along with everything else. So when someone argues that Scientology is just like Judaism and Christianty because of things that happened centuries ago, they are actually supporting the argument of their opponent, because Judaism and Christianity learned that those very practices they cite are wrong and don’t work and, for the most part, stopped doing it. They stopped doing it because it hurt people, and it prevented any growth in society. Yet Scientology, armed with the same knowledge of history, based their religion on it.

Anonymookme

I know gobs of lapsed Catholics. All they had to do to leave the Catholic Church was quit going to Mass. Their past confessions were not held over their heads as a threat. No one from the Catholic Church stalked them, no one from the CC tried to ruin their reputation, their careers, and you can bet your ass no one from the CC tried to force their families and friends to disassociate and disconnect from them.

The comparisons between Scientology and Jews, Catholics, etc are just plain stupid.

JonathanRoberts

100% in agreement, myself Catholic school, 4hrs of catechism every Sunday yet I left the church and studied the Eastern religions settling on Buddhism. Still right now at this very moment I could call or speak with any Priest. There would be no retribution no fear of character assassination attempts. My home would not be picketed nor private eyes hired to follow me.

It would just be a disagreement in philosophy between two human beings.

RMycroft

And the confessions weren’t written down and passed around staff with as much real spiritual training as the people working in the local McBurger joint.

cicely neville

^^^^^^!!!
Thanks – well written, excellent points.
I get so bloody tired of the “but everybody’s weird too’ argument.

DeElizabethan

I too noticed that too. A lot less, hardly any the last few days.

Sherbet

Yay!

Snuzey

Ive always thought that the “all religions are nonsense” argument is just Internet Apathy because they cant be arsed to engage. Looks like engaging has finally commenced!

stateofcircle

Maybe she is building all the machines for Super Power out there and that’s why it’s taking so long.

JonathanRoberts

I believe that the current number of postings, news articles and blog posts all asking “Where is Shelly?” Might be getting more people interested in scientology abuses that have been written about for years.

During Nicole Remini’s interview she stated something to the effect that Leah had asked her, “Do you think people in the general public care about this stuff?”. As I watch Leah’s FB friends’ numbers climb this only reinforces that the overall general public Worldwide do care. However I wanted to reinforce that to Leah on her wall We Do Care, so I did.

Also if there are other celebrities no matter how far out you think they are in the ballpark. Heartfelt notes to them might bring a positive response. You never know until you try I have met with some success so I will keep plugging along.

The United States of America Department of Justice, Federal Bureau of Investigation I ask you.

WHERE IS SHELLY MISCAVIAGE HOW CAN SCIENTOLOGY GET AWAY WITH MAKING PEOPLE DISAPPEAR FROM FRIENDS AND LOVED ONES? HOW CAN THIS HAPPEN IN OUR COUNTRY WITHOUT AN INVESTIGATION?

Sherbet

I used to wonder about the same thing, Jonathan, and then I realized storming the gates isn’t exactly the best solution. But now I’m coming back around to that same nagging question. Surely there are enough rumors of abuses that should be investigated. When I think of the manpower (and firepower) the Government sent in to roust little kid Elian Gonzalez from his hiding place, it makes me wonder why a rumored evil cult doesn’t get a similar rude visit. Yes, I know the circumstances are vastly different, but my point is the Government doesn’t appear to be curious to see what’s going on.

stateofcircle

As for the government, it would really be in their best interest to find something to punish Scientology for. While this may sound a tad cold, if they could revoke Scientology’s tax-exempt status, I don’t think I’m being dramatic in saying that the tax revenue they could get from the Co$ would more than solve a few of our country’s financial problems. The property tax on all of their real estate holdings alone could probably fund an entire war. Obviously ending the human rights abuses is the most important thing, but if the government realizes how much money they could get out of the cult, they might just be more inclined to storm the gates. I know, the chances of this are slim to none and the logistics are probably a nightmare, but I can hope.

Sherbet

You’re right, state, and I believe there was a planned raid some years ago, and it didn’t happen. Still.

Zana

Good idea!

JonathanRoberts

They are also scared many government offices have moles. In the Tampa Bay Area there is talk of our local FBI office having a spy inside.

Jgg2012

Why didn’t Davey just tell the truth and say “Shelly and I have separated”?

Missionary Kid

Davey’s all about image. He’s decided that it doesn’t suit his image to get a divorce, even though LRH did, often enough.

RMycroft

Hubbard was a bit slow on his first divorce, first marrying his second wife (that he never had).

Jgg2012

As Karen’s video shows, the Church advertises in LA Weekly, a free publication that also advertises 900 numbers.
What do they criticaize the Village Voice for?

Observer

Because it’s different when they do it.

MadMaxi

I always had the horrific image in my mind that Shelley was used to “test” the limits of the Super Power sense training. The torture of being forced to endure the Gyro Gym contraption, or insidious loud sounds in the specially designed rooms, etc.. That image stays in my mind every time I read about her and I think the sheer terror response it would infect a person enduring it as a form of punishment at the hands of a psychopathic little man with no one brave enough to tell him “NO!”. Look at the well documented stories from ex-member who tell the horrors of Heber’s imprisonment! WHY has the FBI, Police, Social Services not demanded a face to face with them, away from the compounds and handlers? How can this be allowed?!? I hope and I pray that Shelley, Heber, and all others who have been Stockholm syndromed by this vile brain washing cult can be rescued. IF not by the Law then surely there are enough financial resources where somehow, someway a rescue operation by private concerned citizens could be carried out. (I know, I know a pipedream bordering on too many legal issues, dammit) The USA Law enforcement especially the FBI needs to investigate these disappeared people, and the human slavery of Sea Org members from other countries who have their passports taken away and intimidated to believe they have to endure the abuse.

ARRGGHH!! WAKE UP FBI! Get your shit together and DO something right in this case. What are you afraid of? A tiny, imploding group headed by an insane tyrant? You chase after druglords, and tiny little militia groups, well, the leader of Scientology has a massive weapons store shouldn’t that ring alarm bells in the FBI or ATF? Were is all the money going? How about money laundering, though hiding fund in giant empty buildings worldwide? If there is nothing to hide why does Scientolody spend millions a year on PI’s tracking people that left years ago??? What are they afraid of if they are a benign “religion”? How many bodies must pile up before our government really does a concerted, in depth investigation, and arrests the guilty?

OK, since I can do nothing but rage in an online group, I will have to do the only thing I can right now and that is pray and try to educate through message boards and news article comment sections so maybe one day enough public, media and reporters might raise a stink and push the governmental agencies into doing something meaningful.

Marie Claire Wolf

Oh my god!!! Please no!!!

Bob

That is not nothing. Every voice counts. I have lost many friends to this mad mindf–k machine. I would like to see them again.

Captain Howdy

“A tiny, imploding group headed by an insane tyrant?”

You answered your own question. The FBI, ATF etc are trying to stop the next 9/11, not the next Waco, which they’d rather forget seeing as how they helped start it.

richelieu jr

We touched on this a year or so ago, in the VV days, I believe, but if you had to communicate jsut one phrase or sentence to SeaORg members or prisoners, what would it be?

Knowing the message would be confiscated of kept, and most likely thrown away the instant it was recognized as ‘Entheta’, what would you like to jump out at them and stick on their minds, hopefully to plant a seed of doubt in whatever fertile soil might be left?

Brainslugged

I wonder this often as I see them all scurrying around Hollywood Blvd. I’d love a good answer. I don’t think “you’re in a cult” would work as most people don’t even know the definition of a cult and they’d instantly block out such a confrontational approach. How about “You know you’re being lied to, right?”. That’s a quick enough sound bite to get through before they can raise their defenses and would surely make them ask themselves the (very) open-ended question “about what?” whether they liked it or not. I have no firsthand experience within the cult so I’d like to hear what other people have to say. I know some people have suggested “freeloader debt isn’t legally enforceable”, but I can’t imagine loads of people are only staying in due to that fear.

JonathanRoberts

1. Doubt is not a crime
2.There are approx 22,500 in this zip code at 5 Clears a Month it will take 375 years to Clear just this zip-code. Marc Headley said that one as I recall worked rather well it seems to break through the indoctrination. Just find out the zip-code population prior to the protest.
3. Why do you work 16hr days for 50 cents per hour?
4. When was the last time your wrote home, called home, email homed..that was not monitored or censored. NOTE; All outgoing mail is opened and read before scientology will allow it to be sent. All phone calls made home are monitored by SO OSA staff listening in the room with them.
5. If they are Sea-org, “Are you even Clear?” isn’t that was they promised you?
6. When was your last Lib (Liberty/time off), Vacation? Didn’t they promise you time off when you joined the SO. This has work, LIB, it was then reported a few SO members got some time off when this was used at a protest.

7. How can you contribute to the 2nd dynamic when SO are allowed to have Children? (without leaving that is)

Lark Smith

From what I have read about Lyinglogy education you may want eliminate the math questions. It will just make them feel bad.

JonathanRoberts

That comment is a paraphrase of what Marc Headley wrote one time. Having been face to face with SO it is very hard to get through.
The math question on Clearing an area code they live in apparently bypasses all of their indoctrination.

Zana

What I have experienced with them is that they are all like Nazi Youth…you can’t even talk to them. Maybe there will be a chink…however, when they are together, they are all competing to be the most militant and protective of their image in the organization. No soft spot allowed.

JonathanRoberts

With Sea org they are constantly being watched by Osa. If you say or yell at a regular SO and they look or even react in anyway they are then subject to a Sec-check. Sea org live in a state of fear with everything they do controlled and watched. It’s a horrid existence I would not wish on anyone’s child. Osa are like the Nazi SS that may be a harsh comparison but it is accurate from what I have witnessed.

Robert Eckert

Synthia Fagen mentioned in her “coming out” post that a simple note to the effect of “Your Doubts Are Valid” (not sure if that is word-for-word) pasted to the window did get under her skin.

Minion Gayle

I like this one.

“Your doubts are valid.”

I’m also fond of “Freeloader debt isn’t legal” and “The front door is the way to freedom. Just use it.

Zana

Wow.

richelieu jr

I had thought “You’re aren’t the only one lying on your statistics. What if EVERYONE is?”, or something of that order..

Minion Gayle

Or “Just blow.”

Observer

Are your living quarters, time off and pay what you were promised when you signed up, or did the recruiters lie to you?

richelieu jr

Good one, Observer!

Bob

Re, Karens video. No one has ever mentioned that recently Kathleen Kennedy was on CC lines. I have not heard anything lately but that was no more than a year or two ago. Anyone have her current status?

stateofcircle

She was a speaker at an event at Anne Archer’s house within the past year. It was for CCHR or one of the similar front organizations.

noseinabk

I think it was posted here that she backed out.

Robert Eckert

That’s correct. Supposedly it was a “scheduling conflict” and would happen at some later date, but nothing has been heard since. Kathleen has other problems to worry about.

Observer

You guys are thinking of Kerry Kennedy. Kathleen Kennedy is someone else. Kerry is one of The Kennedys. Kathleen isn’t.

Careful, I DO NOT think that ever happened. I think her people found a way to gracefully bow out of the commitment.

Observer

I don’t remember hearing anything about her.

Bob

I like Karen and AGPs videos but to secure credibility for possible viral distribution they should not use music without permission. It is illegal. It violates copyright laws. And is a disservice to the writers of the music. They are building an audience so be square and make yourself bullet proof by getting legal.

stateofcircle

I believe that if it is less than 30 seconds, it’s not illegal. And one generally doesn’t get sued right off the bat, usually a cease and desist letter is first. Also, they aren’t selling anything or making a profit from it (unless they are monetizing the video with ads, but I don’t see any), so that makes it less of a big deal too.

Bob

There is no time rule. You are right that no one will probably care unless they get really popular. I worked in copyrights for the church and it was a legal issue.

Captain Howdy

The profit for a CD sale breaks down like this Bob. The artist(s) gets 10% if they have a really good lawyer and the company/corporation gets the rest. The music biz is the biggest rip-off there is “arts’ wise. People have had CDs go platinum and THEY owed their record company money at the end of the financial year.

Bob

Yes, I know preaching to the choir. It is different when it comes to use with picture.

1subgenius

youtube is pretty good about catching copyrighted material. I think they run everything through an automated analysis. Often they will just post a link where the music can be bought.
If its a problem I’ll bet AGP has the ability to remove the music.

I tried to edit to say I like the foot bullets.
Disqus and my tablet are plotting against me and crashed.

Jgg2012

I would not be shocked if she did quit.

Missionary Kid

I think that she is such an emotional wreck that anything is possible, but it will take something that pisses her off about the {church} to do it, and she’s got a lot invested, so if it happens, it won’t be for a while.

Jgg2012

I think you are right.

DeElizabethan

Her mouth will swallow her and hopefully the Cof$ too.

sugarplumfairy

Yes! Great comment, DeLiz!

JonathanRoberts

I would be happy to give an honest reply however then she would just block me(:

SandiCorrena

she didn’t block me yesterday and I asked about her liability formula showing.

Lark Smith

Assess whether it is really a lie or if it merely what you want the the truth to be Kirstie. Like we didn’t see that coming. (I wasn’t being mean to Leah, I was being mean and hateful to someone else.) Um, sure that makes it all good. WTF Does she have any idea that being stupid or lying does not excuse mean..What a dumb dumb.

Snuzey

yes just say “depends if it was a lie or not….” that will get her going!

Zana

Why not ask Kirstie where Shelly is?

Lark Smith

It did not answer her initial twitter question- see above.

Nevermore

Like her handler hasn’t already told her what to do (or not)?

Jgg2012

I’d conclude that these people were from a group that said “the way to control a person is to lie to them.” btw, Kirstie, I told you that you are free to leave scientology. We’d be glad to have you.

L. Wrong Hubturd

My wish from a few days ago is continuing to come true. She keeps opening her maw and more nonsense materializes as tweets. Love it! Go Kirstie, go!

Let her talk.. Those bulls eyes on her jimmy choo’s are getting lots of attention..

Mrs Libnish

The comments are highlarious!

FreeAtLast

This is absurd! How can you hide a person in this country in bright daylight FOR YEARS and get away with it??? Wow! Can I just call 911 right now and file a missing person report??? It seems that would blow this thing wide open! All it takes is to have police show up at the doorstep of Gold, CCI or any Scientology org and demand to see that Shelly Miscavige is safe! Once the investigation opens it’s DONE! They would have to produce her out of no where somehow while the media and the whole world watch it unfolds! Miscavage will be finished! If my wife is missing for weeks, my neighbor or her collleagues, does not have to a family member, would probably call the police for the same reason demanding to know whereabout of my wife and ensure she is safe and NOT DEAD!!! Am I missing something here???
So who is going to call 911 right NOW???

noseinabk

Go ahead!!!! Do it!!!!! It would be awsome!!!! Like , we never thought of that?!!! ;-D

FreeAtLast

How about getting 500+ people to file the report at the same time?? We can easily get 500 signatures from people in this blog plus others, and we file the missing person report to LAPD together!!! Will that be more effective? Or is that retarded???

Sherbet

I think what might be effective is having the local high-profile news reporter take a film crew out to the local police HQ and stick a microphone in their spokesperson’s face and ask if the police are aware of the rumors of disappeared people. That story, run on the evening news, might be interesting. However, Google the name “Sheriff Baca,” and maybe you’ll find a clue as to why the police play nice with the cult.

Missionary Kid

Gold base is in Riverside County, Twin Peaks is in San Bernardino County. Baca is Sheriff in L. A. County.

Sherbet

Thanks for the correction, Kid. I should have got my info straight. Mea culpa.

Missionary Kid

I’m more in line with Captain Howdy’s reply above, that it will take a report by a family member to bring about an investigation. The sheriff has to overcome an attorney’s statement that he knows where she is, and, as an officer of the court, he is obligated to report a crime. That’s a high barrier.

Better we agitate in public forums until she shows.

Sherbet

Agreed, but I’d still like to see a ballsy TV news reporter with a microphone and film crew grabbing the opportunity to pick up on the current Leah Remini/Where’s Shelly?story. It would get more people thinking, if nothing else.

Missionary Kid

I agree. The Demented Midget is so concerned with public image that something like that would drive him to another foot bullet. The sheriffs are just a dead end, IMO.

Sherbet

Oh, to be a fly on the wall, now, more than ever.

RMycroft

I’d settle for leaked security camera footage. There has to be lots of cameras at Int Base and Twin Peaks. All it would take is one of the security people walking out with some extra files on their iPod.

JonathanRoberts

As for a Family member inquiring on Shelly Miscavige whereabouts. Hasn’t her niece Jenna Miscavige already asked that question in numerous publications along with other National video news segments. I have read and seen quite a few myself.

Missionary Kid

Good point. I don’t know if she’s filed a police report.

Zana

Why doesn’t Jenna file a Missing Persons Report? A little ice pick in Crazy Davey’s butt. She certainly has the high profile to do it. As well as the relationship with Shelly to do it.

When there is a murder, police often look at the spouse first. I’m sure that Demented Mishmosh would be the first person under a microscope.

RMycroft

Look at the court case by LRH jr (Ron DeWolfe) to prove that Hubbard was either dead or incapacitated. He didn’t get past first base before being blown away by a piece of paper with Hubbard’s fingerprints. (How did that prove that he wasn’t incapacitated?)

Missionary Kid

Yup, and because that piece of paper was presented by an attorney, it had more weight.

JonathanRoberts

Yes, “Sheriff Baca” is in their hip pocket bought & paid for by Scientology donations.

Missionary Kid

Shelly isn’t in his jurisdiction.

Missionary Kid

Not LAPD, San Bernardino Sheriff’s dept.

JonathanRoberts

I think it would be a great idea to create a petition to the FBI (I think this would be there jurisdiction). If one were created, filled out, signed then at least one media organization got access or was notified before it was filed, just for followup.

FreeAtLast

Great idea! Lets do it! Get the form and I will sign it!

Captain Howdy

Unless a family member files the report the cops aren’t going to take it seriously. You need to have evidence, suspicion isn’t enough.

Zana

Why not Jenna? She’s a family member. That’s her Aunt.

JonathanRoberts

Agree however I think there will be to many jurisdictions in question and that the Federal authorities would need to get involved for any success.

Captain Howdy

It would be better if it was someone from the Barnett family.

P.S – check out this photo of Diana Hubbard I just found. How did nasty Hubbtard produce someone so hubba-hubba?

The fact that an attorney, who is an officer of the court, stated that he knows where she is, is a high barrier to overcome for law enforcement. As an officer of the court, he is obligated to report if a crime is occurring.

Better we get publicity so Davey has to respond publicly.

Peter

Oh? Are we now discussing the ethics and integrity of the czerh’s attorneys? Obligations? As opposed to a few thousand billable hours??? ROFL

Robert Eckert

The police are not allowed to see it that way. They would need to see a court order.

Missionary Kid

You got it, but it’s the perfect cop-out for law enforcement, who don’t want to get into a shit storm of “ecclesiastical persecution.”

Zana

That’s what I say!! Is there no one in Shelly’s life who ares enough for her to file a Missing Person Report? That would FORCE them to open the gates and disclose where she is. It might even save her life. I’m sure that they would find LOTS of interesting things. !! Again… does this not make sense?

Eric Jordan

I have a story that I can relate to Leah Remini’s. When I was around 10 I attended teen week at the org in my town because my parents were Scientologists. I never really got the courses but I attended mainly because my whole family was involved and some of my childhood friends were involved. I was definitely suspicious from the moment I stepped into the church, I think I could smell bullshit. However I was 10 at the time so I continued attending to make my parents happy. Then one day our supervisor rounded all of us children up (Remember I was 10) to go watch a video. Was it a fun child-friendly video? No. It was a video showing a psychiatrist drilling people’s brains out and complaining about not making enough money. I’m not exaggerating either. Needless to say this had a profound effect on me. The video was not only horrid and plainly untrue about most psychiatrists but it confirmed all my suspicions that I had about Scientology and it’s founder L Ron Hubbard. For several years I used that video as an excuse to not do anything Scientology related. The truth is I had known before, but the video gave me a way to quit without telling my parents I liked Scientology. Of course I’m 20 now and they know my thoughts more now than they did before. I remember to always stay kind and compassionate to my parents though!

Eric Jordan

Sorry, didn’t like Scientology*. Bad type to make lol

1subgenius

FYI, there is an edit button.

Eric Jordan

Thank you!

1subgenius

You’re very welcome, and thanks for sharing the horrific story.
Be well.

Missionary Kid

Would your parents disconnect from you if they knew about your post?

Eric Jordan

That’s a scary thought but no I don’t think so. I’ve talked with my mother about auditing being hypnosis and she genuinely listened. I also told her it was brainwashing and L Ron Hubbard was involved in occults a while back. There is definitely more dialogue allowed between us than if I was talking to, say, Mr. Miscavige or many other Scientologists for that matter.

Missionary Kid

Just be careful. You might even get a different email address and come back with an avatar, if you really wish to let loose. Thanks for your insight.

Captain Howdy

Most definitely.

sugarplumfairy

Wow, Eric.. Your parents are so fortunate to have you to look out for them.. Best wishes.. I hope it works out well for them.. And you..

Mrs Libnish

i was worried about the same thing. I hope his parents don’t get called in and ordered to handle Eric.

DeElizabethan

So nice for you to tell us about this experience. What a thing to have a child see. But as turned out another foot bullet. Happy that you are not in and are treating your parents with compassion. <3
Slowly they may see the truth and dangers of the organization and you are a VIP.

Sunny Sands

Leah has a 9 year old daughter, her only child. I think part of her leaving now has to do with not bringing up her child with the incorrect ideas they have of the outside world.

And we get ” If you think about the Jesus fiction, it’s really no less ridiculous. An all-powerful god rapes an unsuspecting virgin to impregnate her with a kid that he will sacrifice so humanity can have a forgiveness with strings attached? Really? Christianity is as dumb.” from a poster who names himself “Wow You Are An Idiot” with no sense of irony.

I am sure Perez saying “{unless they can cure me of my gayness}” was as sarcastic as the finger-quotes he uses to speak of the “{church}”

sugarplumfairy

But, on the bright side, the Nativity is a heck of a lot easier to produce and perform in school Christmas pageants around the world than the Xenu/volcano/DC8/disembodied thetan passion play would ever be.. Soooo.. I’ll go with Jesu..

Sherbet

Biggest laugh in about 48 hours. Thanks, Ms. Fairy!

Lark Smith

Ha hah hah….I just visualized that event…ROFL

sugarplumfairy

With all the proud scientology parents in the audience power regging one another while trying to video tape their kids with their iPads.. Oh.. That’s right.. Scientologists aren’t allowed iPads..

Lark Smith

Really? With all the pretend tech you would think they would want to appear to be up-to-date with new technologies.

sugarplumfairy

I don’t actually know.. I just figured they’d never be allowed to use it anyway.. And lord knows that $500 bucks could be better spent on miscavige’s italian designer duds and his Macallan 50..

DeElizabethan

Public members can have them. Oh you were kidding, I’m not with it yet! Right, staff and SO don’t have them, I’m sure.

L. Wrong Hubturd

Maybe they can get EPads. The only app is an E-meter. And the only websites you get are approved by the {church} If you try to visit the Bunker, it self destructs like the old Mission Impossible messages. And of course plays TC’s cray cray cackling laugh while doing so.

I don’t know, I haven’t heard whether those blind or lame guys stayed cured after his touch assists, or if an hour later they were afflicted all over again.

Jgg2012

LRH was worth $300 million when he died. How much did Jesus have when he died?

Robert Eckert

Judas was the treasurer, you’d have to ask him.

Zana

LOL!!! :-))))) Thank you!

Once_Born

I hope this isn’t considered off topic, but this is my first
post and I thought I would introduce myself by drawing to your attention a few
things I recently noticed online.

First, the BBC has finally caught up with the fraught
relationship between the Internet and the CoS – including their uncanny ability
to take the sort of decisive action that makes their situation infinitely worse
(aka footbullets). It includes the wonderful quote, “They’re kind of innovators
in finding ways to censor the internet.” This stuff is becoming mainstream,
people…

However, the CoS isn’t giving up. I also came across a free
app on Amazon, called ‘Scientology Parent’ that supposedly enables you to:

“Enjoy daily updates of helpful articles,
video, and tips for raising healthy, happy children using Scientology. The
ScientologyParent app offers immediate access to articles and the ability to
post questions and interact with the Scientology parenting community”.

A screenshot urges buyers to, “contact us with any
questions, article suggestions, or helpful ways to make this app better”.
{I am sure that this community can come up with many
helpful suggestions and perhaps even reviews…}

BTW: Read the second review (“Surprisingly Insightful”). So
many misleading Amazon reviews (obviously written by scientologists) now begin
with the words “I am not a Scientologist, but…” Even they realise that being honest about what they are would destroy
their credibility.

Captain Howdy

And best of all “Scientology Parent” is free!

Ha, Ha just when we thought they’d given up on the Net Nanny the scilons come up with the Droid Nanny.

Nevermore

I have contacted Amazon UK with my ‘misgivings’ about this!

DeElizabethan

Welcome and look forward to hear from you more. Thanks for the Amazon link. I gave my vote. Really funny ad and good review.

Robert Eckert

George Takei should review it, I could never manage enough snark.

Robin Scott

In case you haven’t seen it, big spread today in the UK’s Daily Mail, a leading national newspaper:

Thanks for the link. Things are heating up. I bet Kirstie is barking on her cell phone like a guard dog with laryngitis.

media_lush

was this in todays actual paper? … I posted this on my bollocks site a few days ago [it’s dated 12th July] but I know actual print and web stories often overlap

Robin Scott

I read it online, my friend, but I checked the date, and it was definitely 17th July. They may, of course, have rehashed it and updated it. Not a paper I would admit to reading in hard copy!

media_lush

anybody else see the batshit comments Kirstie the Hutt was tweeting earlier today which are now all removed?

1subgenius

No, but hopefully someone screencapped them.

DeElizabethan

Don’t think so. Have you got them to share?

Nevermore

You mean the ones where she was ‘classifying’ stuff?

media_lush

yeah… I think I have the full set on my iPad…. will post them later if I find them

Lark Smith

No, but there was this rating system she was using – Class, Ass, Cock, or Cock Sucker (Sorry her words not mine). She rated comments she had received over twitter using these terms. I think she has truly gone over the edge. Btw any comments about scientology did not receive the Class rating.

Captain Howdy

I can just imagine her lying there naked, tweeting as she shovels mashed potatoes down her maw, belching and farting out of both ends.

Okay, is it just me- or is this freaky beyond belief.. Who does kind this of stuff. Seriously I think big time professional is needed here. WTF!

media_lush

I’m not quite sure what a “cock sucking asswipe vagina jumper” is …. I’m guessing it’s her nickname for Miscavige?

Sherbet

I thought you were exaggerating, _lush, but, there it is on the screen. The woman has gone off the deep end.

1subgenius

“cock sucking asswipe vagina jumper”

I hate to admit it but I’m so gonna use this. Its making me laugh.
Thanks Kirstie you rock.
(And I mean that as in “you are a rock”, not “you are rockin'”)

Lark Smith

She sure can string some words together- Oh, what’s the bizzarro word they use when they use the dictionary to make sure they understand properly or communicate effectively and I wonder if it applies here. LOL

Robert Eckert

They “word clear” their “M/U” (misunderstanding)

Lark Smith

Thanks Robert! I wonder if I “misunderstood”. I did not use “word clear” tech when reading Kirstie’s ranking system… Though I think my small wog brain can glean a bit of the intent and meaning.

I wonder if the media will pick this up? I wonder how she will clear up this misunderstanding?

noseinabk

Did you see Leahs reply to a” You are so sweet” comment. Think she said “sweet as syrup?”

noseinabk

found it

media_lush

Michael K…. oh, the lulz

“The first rule of Scientology is that you don’t talk about Scientology. The second rule of Scientology is that you keep the questions in your mouth when you talk to Tommy and his breath smells like nut milk, barley lube and natural happiness. But I love that Leah Remini was the Detective La Toya of Scientology…..”

It’s definitely him, he just looks like shit. Well, shittier than usual anyway.

Missionary Kid

A lot of that is the result of using a wide angle lens, which is actually quite close to tom, even though it looks like it’s far away.

If you want to make someone look bad, shoot them with a wide angle lens close to their face.

Unex Skcus

Rank. Interesting word, as in “DM is rank”.

chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

I am more the watcher of Red Square events, divining what goes on in Scientology, parallel.

I years ago saw the photo of Shelly and Dave sitting behind, a row behind Beckham and Cruise, in a bleacher photo taken by paparazzi and from Shelley’s expression, versus Dave’s expression, she was NOT the type able to keep up with Dave, while Dave hung out with Tom Cruise’s world famous friends, is what was plain as day.

And Shelley is more a better person, than Miscavige, and than Hubbard also.

IN hindsight, all the plain and simpler people who’ve held all these top to bottom positions in Scientology history, my biggest hindsight conclusion is the regular people are just so much better and decent human beings, and those that get out and back to normal life, are so fortunate, compated to Hubbard, Miscavige, and all those fools still caught executing crazy Hubbard’s crappy ideas on themselves and each other.

I hope Shelley gets out, and that she had to confide in Mike Rinder, is such a “good indicator” (double entendre, I mean this in the real world honest meaning) for Shelley.

I hope she gets out, and goes straight to Las Vegas, and stays with Janis Grady or Terri Gamboa, who both, would absolutely love to help Shelley move on in life!

Michael Hobson

Tony, how can you possibly be certain that: (a) you spoke with the real one and only Shelly Miscavige or (b) she was not at figurative or literal gunpoint when you did ?

Michael A. Hobson
Independent Scientologist

L. Wrong Hubturd

Tony did not state that he talked with Shelly directly. Read again please.

JonathanRoberts

I to just read the piece Tony never said he talked with Shelly.

Michael Hobson

I just reread it, too.

What we have here is a deceptively titled article, as there is evidently no actual communication from Shelly Miscavige.

Michael A. Hobson
Independent Scientologist

L. Wrong Hubturd

Being an indy, {you ought to recognize deception.} Or not….

Mooser

Wow, an “Independent Scientologist” ! He’s even told us this twice. I’m impressed. Quite frankly, I would have nothing to do with a ‘dependent’ Scientologist.

JonathanRoberts

Michael, what we have here is an accurate well written investigative article by a professional objective journalist. Tony Ortega in my opinion always stay’s objective and thoroughly researches every article he writes.

What purpose do you have your writing to me does not add or detract from the conversation.

Hugo12

The problem is that when they bring Shelly out to “show the world she is ok”…she will say she is fine and happy, especially since she has been in that place for so many years. She has NO idea that Scientology is on a decline and severely damaged by exposure from the media and ex- members. And NO idea about the “Where’s Shelly” coverage.

So she has been in this bubble and will think it’s just like it was before and she won’t feel safe or strong enough to say she wants to leave. She probably won’t even want to leave.

Then we will look like Geraldo when he went into Al Capone’s vaults…the world watched in anticipation!!!… then nothing…

JonathanRoberts

That may or may not occur in regards to Shelly Miscavige. However that should not stop those people around the World who are genuinely concerned for this beautiful Woman. Yes it is possible that nothing will happen yet there is also the chance something may occur.

So it is still worth the effort, Where is Shelly Miscavige why not show the World she is alive and well there is no harm in that is there?

chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

For people’s info, my comment to Mike Rinder, regarding Shelly Miscavige’s sense of duty, I think she’s got more feelings of longterm loyalty to Hubbard, than to DM, but that she’s in ultimatelly one of the most difficult relationships, thus.

If historically, there is any legitimacy to the “Loyal Officers” science fiction fantasy concept, that came from Hubbard’s fiction mind, Shelly is doing a better job of being a Loyal Officer to Hubbard.

Chuck Beatty

Mike,

Do you think Shelly feels obliged to LRH’s writings, and feels ultimately loyal to LRH, and feels for all her exposure, as COB Asst ASI, and all through LRH’s final years, and being then privy to everything that Sarge and Annie and Pat revealed about LRH’s final final months of life, do you think that plays in her thinking?

To me, I put myself in her shoes, she always was a “tempering” person to DM’s harshness, but she was restrained in that she could not overly show she disapproved of anything DM did, but firsthand, when DM came set up office at ASI, in 1993, or rather ASI always had an office with 3 desks, and an additional outer office that Shelly sat in, that sort of guarded who could even walk into the bigger office at ASI (I know, as the computer guy at ASI, I daily had to ensure that all the computer equipment in the two rooms were always functioning, ready for COB’s and COB Asst’s and anyone else with them, for their use).

Anyways, once I walked right into COB’s temp office space, and right up to him, and I fiddled with his computer very briefly, and afterwards, she was politely scolding of me, for walking up so directly into COB’s space/desk, and requested that I always first go via her rather than walk right up to COB, as he was then always on the phone to the lawyeers, this was around the summer of 1993, just leading up to the IRS “win” (which doesn’t seem like an ethical win to me now, due to LRH’s money laundering factually).

Anyways, she was as a woman, protective of DM, and also to me she came across as somewhat capable of smoothing some ruffled feathers that he caused, but in a manner so as to not show she disapproved of any of his outbursts on people, etc.

To me, my common mental bond I had while working near the “top people” was I presumed they took what LRH had written literally and seriously, as if they were on 100% “watch” duty for LRH, and being Commodore’s Messengers (messenger TRs in, and at ASI, I had to even to a few of the “messenger TRs”, and this attitude that one was serving LRH’s wishes, as an ASI staffer, I just always pressumed that Shelly and Dave, at least I imagined and believed truly, that they were thinking of everything they did, in terms of complying with LRH’s intentions).

So to me, Shelly’s mental burden, is very very high.

She to me has lived with LRH on the Apollo, she’s even MORE in the category of the older timer Commodore’s Messengers.

She’s even more, having lived all through the ASI years, daily, with very few breaks, she was constantly at DM’s side until he stopped taking her with him, on his trips (my thoughts for why that was, is best told visually in one photo I saw, of her expression, her and Dave sitting behind Tom and I think Beckham, at a football game in Spain), and from Shelly’s expression, I think the cognitive dissonance was just too much for her.

I’ve always thought of Shelly as dedicated to LRH first, and DM second, and I really wonder what she would say to that.

So, keeping this brief, I think her dedication to LRH, and knowing all that LRH wrote about the archives project, and that the tech legacy is really really really real in LRH’s mind, so much so (I read the ASI long advice from LRH explicitly telling that HIS wealth go to the corporation that is CST today, once CST became legitimately non profit).

And that CST, archiving LRH’s works into the stainless steel plates, and the archival paper books in the argon gas enclosed titanium capsules in the CST vault sites, Shelly knows LRH was very serious about that is where LRH wished his money to go!

So, today, ASI still funnels all the profits of the license agreements, and the royalties profits, to CST, or at least that is as LRH wished those profits go.

She to me, I even speculated when we first heard of her being “missing”, that CST would be likely her destination, only because of LRH’s timetrack of final writings, and what he considered his long term “marching orders” and Shelly being who she was, and what she did, to me, in her heart (maybe I’m being out there on this) but my guess she’s at CST as much for LRH, but publicly, for DM, she’ll say she’s there for DM.

At CST I wonder if one of the RTC auditors is auditing Shelly.

Does anyone know who Shelly’s auditor would be?

Chuck Beatty
412-260-1170

PS: And in all cases, I’m sure countless former senior Sea Org Apollo vets would all instantly empathize and instantly welcome Shelly to their homes, to help Shelly start life over!

Henry

The representation that the Church of Scientology does not demand disconnection by friends and family members is an unmitigated unvarnished bald-faced lie.

Some years ago, I had the temerity to seek scientology style “auditing” (counseling) from a celebrated and immaculately trained scientology practitioner (“auditor”) who, however, was not obedient to the “Church of Scientology”, but carried on an independent scientology practice. I saw nothing wrong with this. The counseling was standard, effective and a lot less expensive (by 10X) than what the Church of Scientology would have charged. In fact, the counseling was far better, far more standard, far more skilled, than what I had been able to obtain through the Church of Scientology itself.

A few years later, I met a lovely woman, who WAS still connected to the Church of Scientology. We agreed that I would return to the Church of Scientology to continue my “audting”/counseling. When the Church of Scientology found out — I told them of course — that I had received counseling from an independent scientology practitioner, then ensued almost four years of ‘security checks’, payment of thousands of dollars to ‘make up’ for or ‘atone’ for my ‘sins’, and, worst of all the Church of Scientology’s mandate that my Wife divorce me and otherwise disconnect from me — which she refused to do.

Eventually, after exacting what I estimate to be about $10,000 from me in penances, the Church of Scientology “declared” me to be a “suppressive” individual, and then “declared” my Wife to be a “suppressive” individual for failing to divorce me. At this point ALL of my Wife’s many, many, many, many scientologist friends whom she had known, worked with and raised her family (and their families) with for the last 30 or so years — ALL of them, upon order of the Church of Scientology, “disconnected” from her. In one fell swoop, my Wife, who was widely known, highly regarded and had contributed much towards bettering and improving this world through what she felt, and feels, is a workable mental technology, scientology and dianetics, lost her entire life-time of “friends”. And, all because she refused to “disconnect” (divorce) me.

Disconnection IS absolutely an enforced and often used policy of the Church of Scientology qua David Miscavige’s perversion of scientology and dianetics. Don’t get me wrong, there is nothing in what L. Ron Hubbard which would require such rampant and disgusting dissembling of the lives and hopes of scientology families. But, David Miscavige has through some bizarre perversion of all that is good, right and useful in Hubbard’s works, managed to not only make “disconnection” a policy of the Church of Scientology, but to sooooooooooooooooooo enforce it with his ‘sec checks’ and other forms of ‘discipline’ or ‘ethics’, that even otherwise seemly normal adults will automatically disconnect from their friends, once they hear that their friends are “declared”, even without being told. David Miscavige has soooooooooooooooo perverted scientology and enslaved the minds and spirits of the bulk of its ‘adherents’, that he is operates the “greatest” dictatorship since Nazi Germany. What is so appalling about THIS dictatorship is, however, that it is allowed to persist and continue on under the watchful and well-informed eye of the United States Government.

If Shelly Barnett Miscavige were anyone else, the U. S. Attorney would launch an immediate, thorough and piercing investigation. One has to wonder why it has not done so.

Mooser

You know, maybe you are right, when LRon Hubbard had trouble he went into hiding, but Mascavige sends other people into hiding. Gosh, they just don’t make cult leaders like they used to, do they Henry?

http://www.jackejett.com/ Jack E. Jett

As an outsider reading this. It was hard to go beyond the bit about having a “handler” at her Father’s funeral.

If the death of your Dad doesn’t bring you back to earth, then perhaps that is the concept or need for other planets for existence. That said, this pic is a classic. I like the full on version better.

dick church

When you’re in the Hole, are there weapons pointed at you? Or, can you just say, “I quit,” and leave whenever you want?

TonyOrtega

No weapons, but they were locked in the office-prison, which was inside a locked compound. The only time they were allowed outside the room was for a morning shower, marched out under guard to another building each morning. Things have changed since 2009, however. It’s less restrictive now.

Meow F*cker

So why don’t normal people who are not affiliated with the church stand up and report this woman as missing and go to the FBI with this? They could be covering up her murder. Just sayin…

Veronica D. Giovanni

Take the money out of the equation and there would be no Scientology and possibly other organized religions for that matter. Spiritually illiterate people find themselves caught up in this kind of nonsense. Mature adults should NOT need other adults telling them how to live their lives. Trust your gut and stop following crazy people. Any man whose wife “disappears” for years is not a leader. This is ridiculous.

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Mooser

Do you think Dr. Marnish can help Shelley Miscavige? Cause she’s got it bad and that ain’t good.

Dave Roland

The current version of Scientology run by DM is like any evil empire from history. When any one person gains enough power so that their actions are unquestioned by their subordinates, then you have an evil empire.

Look at Joseph Stalin. He was also in charge of an organization where everyone believed that the doctrine that they were following was for the betterment of the world. He had absolute power over everyone within his organization. He was also extremely paranoid – everyone was a potential enemy, plotting his harm and/or overthrow. Periodically he would conduct a purge of his followers, especially amongst those closest to him.

Only those who were the most politically adept could survive for any period of time in Stalin’s inner circle. Even after his death in 1947, no-one had the nerve to denounce his reign of terror. It took until 1952 for his successor to call him to task for some of his excesses.

DM and his cult of personality, Scientology, are just the same. If he survives mentally, I doubt that he will ever voluntarily give up power. Personally, I’m surprised that he hasn’t started to kill people already. Yes, there have been one or two accidental deaths, but a paranoid and sociopathic leader like DM has no reason NOT to kill. Again, in my opinion, he isn’t far from reaching that point.

In fact, I look ahead to a Jim Jones style massacre at Scientology. If the organization was put under enough outside pressure from, for example, a general federal investigation into their wrongdoings, DM might well decide to; a) flee and reorganize in another country, or b) end it all in a suicidal massacre.

The only hope for trapped Scientologists is to flee the organization for freedom outside in the greater world. However, I understand the pressures that keeps everyone inside the nest. The simple fact that Scientology hasn’t been brought to task by the FBI tells you how much influence can be bought with the almighty $ today in the USA.

Of course, I hope and pray that none of the above predictions come true, but the they do fill a pattern established by similar cults. The foundation of Scientology is evil. LRH was a deceiver, along the lines of any dictator. He spun a tale to pull unsuspecting folk into a web from which they were then unable to extract themselves. But make no mistake – he knew exactly what he was doing from Day One.

Dave

William James

Thank you for your article! It touches my heart deeply because I have recently went through something similar case .About 3 years ago my husband left me and 2 of our kids for 3years to another woman. During this years of our separation I was so broken, so I finally went to a friend of mine who directed me to a spell caster Dr. Oduduwa (dr.oduduwasamuelhightemple@gmail.com) who helps me in reunite my family and then i felt peace and whole love again. 3 days After the casting of the love spell, My Ex-husband called me on phone and apologized to me. so I obeyed and we started dating and hanging out as a family with the kids again, Dr. Oduduwa has restored our marriage in a way I have NEVER expected, but I’m truly Thankful!

These scientologists sound like a real bunch of whackos. They remind me of the Peoples Temple Christian Church Full Gospel, the same nutballs led by Jim Jones who all committed suicide in Jonestown by drinking the koolaid (this koolaid was spiked with cyanide). David Miscavige=Jim Jones and if he threw a party I wouldn’t drink the punch.