Re: [Hammock Camping] Winter hammock tents

I ve seen a lot of adaptations of using a tarp-tent with a hammock....similar to the speer winter tarp, but with a stove-pipe insert and a ti-goat woodstove.

Message 1 of 16
, Dec 23, 2008

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I've seen a lot of adaptations of using a tarp-tent with a hammock....similar to the speer winter tarp, but with a stove-pipe insert and a ti-goat woodstove. Eventually, I'd like to do this, but I have no issues winter camping in the mountains with just my speer winter tarp, a few camp pads (closed cell and a self inflating)..but I also like to add some of that reflectivix stuff (bubble wrap w/mylar on either side) as an extra "stuffer" (I have a claytor w/ a camp pad pocket) and as a "floor", which may be one reason why I don't get cold in my hammock. ?? 'Course, having plenty of hand and food warmers don't hurt either!

Winter hammock camping is great except for wind chill (known by other
names as well). While a rain fly will reduce wind chill it doesn't
eliminate it and if the temp. drops low enough even the most hardened
winter hammock camper (if you don't build snow walls ect.)will go to a
tent. Why not just design a winter hammock tent. I'm talking a true
winter tent and not just a modified rain fly used as a tent. I snowshoe
into camp pulling a small sled and an extra 5 lbs means nothing to me.
I'd rather be warm and comfortable then try a save a couple of oz's off
my gear weight.I work outside in minus temp. everyday and wind is the
biggest killer of all. I would design this tent without a floor so I
can add a small tent (fold up type) wood burning stove. I'm talking
real winter camping and not going out for a night or two in clear
weather. While we are at it why not design a true winter hammock with
insulation built into the hammock? Just my thoughts.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandy Kramer

http://www.jacksrbetter.com/Hammock%20Hut.htm sandy in miami ... other ... hardened ... to a ... snowshoe ... me. ... off ... the ... I ... with

--- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "ginohav" <ginohav@...> wrote:
>
> Winter hammock camping is great except for wind chill (known by
other
> names as well). While a rain fly will reduce wind chill it doesn't
> eliminate it and if the temp. drops low enough even the most
hardened
> winter hammock camper (if you don't build snow walls ect.)will go
to a
> tent. Why not just design a winter hammock tent. I'm talking a true
> winter tent and not just a modified rain fly used as a tent. I
snowshoe
> into camp pulling a small sled and an extra 5 lbs means nothing to
me.
> I'd rather be warm and comfortable then try a save a couple of oz's
off
> my gear weight.I work outside in minus temp. everyday and wind is
the
> biggest killer of all. I would design this tent without a floor so
I
> can add a small tent (fold up type) wood burning stove. I'm talking
> real winter camping and not going out for a night or two in clear
> weather. While we are at it why not design a true winter hammock
with
> insulation built into the hammock? Just my thoughts.
>

Sandy Kramer

I just googled hammock tents and came up with the Siam Hammock Tent, that has, apparently been around for some time . comments going back to 03, and it is in

Message 3 of 16
, Dec 24, 2008

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I just googled hammock tents and came up with the Siam Hammock Tent,
that has, apparently been around for some time . comments going back
to 03, and it is in the index for Ed Speer's book, so I'll go back
and take a look.

> > eliminate it and if the temp. drops low enough even the most
> hardened
> > winter hammock camper (if you don't build snow walls ect.)will go
> to a
> > tent. Why not just design a winter hammock tent. I'm talking a

true

> > winter tent and not just a modified rain fly used as a tent. I
> snowshoe
> > into camp pulling a small sled and an extra 5 lbs means nothing

to

> me.
> > I'd rather be warm and comfortable then try a save a couple of

oz's

> off
> > my gear weight.I work outside in minus temp. everyday and wind is
> the
> > biggest killer of all. I would design this tent without a floor

so

> I
> > can add a small tent (fold up type) wood burning stove. I'm

talking

> > real winter camping and not going out for a night or two in clear
> > weather. While we are at it why not design a true winter hammock
> with
> > insulation built into the hammock? Just my thoughts.
> >
>

Jeff

Here s a hammock tent with a built-in stove jack for a TiGoat woodburning stove. I think he s been to -40F in this one.

I am currently building a hammock with a tent attachment. The hammock has 3/4 PVC tubing as spreader bars, to a width of about 30 . The hammock is 7 4 long

Message 5 of 16
, Dec 24, 2008

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I am currently building a hammock with a tent attachment. The hammock
has 3/4" PVC tubing as spreader bars, to a width of about 30". The
hammock is 7'4" long and can transform into a BAT hammock ( single
point attachment) when the spreader bars are removed from their velcro
sleeves. It has been a huge pain in the butt to build. :D But it
looks fantastic. Building the rain fly/ tent today...it too must
transform for the BAT mode...!

I added a sleeve to the floor of the hammock for the insertion of a
sleeping pad. I can fit a full sized foam-style inflatable pad and a
thing reflective pad as well, for colder weather.

So far, so good...Wish me luck. :D

hungry

Here is a site that sells a very well thought out design... you can get a tent, netting, and cozy quilt for it. As well, they sell models with a sleeve for a

Message 6 of 16
, Dec 24, 2008

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Here is a site that sells a very well thought out design... you can
get a tent, netting, and cozy quilt for it. As well, they sell models
with a sleeve for a sleeping pad insert. Roomy enough for two, very
stable.

Also, since we are on the topic of hammock TENTS, why not hang a small candle lantern inside?? With a wire screen surround, even if it fell, it would not burn

Message 7 of 16
, Dec 24, 2008

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Also, since we are on the topic of hammock TENTS, why not hang a small
candle lantern inside?? With a wire screen surround, even if it fell,
it would not burn anything due to the wire surround keeping the
distance from the fabric, etc...

Dave Womble

... I m not sure how you are defining a true winter tent for a hammock. Hammocks set up higher off the ground and usually attach to trees. Also they require

Hammocks set up higher off the ground and usually attach to trees.
Also they require longer shelters due to the profile of a hammock.
All that would seem to complicate a few things for what I think of for
a true winter tent for a hammock where you need to be able to handle
serious winds (and from any direction) and handle large clumps of snow
falling from limbs.

Tents are restricted to cleared flat areas that are hopefully level.
Hammocks inherently are not but become more restrictive along those
lines the more you try to put them inside a tent like enclosure. With
hammocks you hope to have more site selection options to limit your
exposure. I worry that if you try to make true winter tent for a
hammock that it might be like trying to make a tank out of a sports
car where you end up with something that doesn't do anything well.

I don t think designing a winter tent will make a sports car into a tank. Unless you know how to handle winter conditions in a hammock a novice winter camper

Message 9 of 16
, Dec 25, 2008

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I don't think designing a winter tent will make a sports car into a
tank. Unless you know how to handle winter conditions in a hammock a
novice winter camper can quickly get into trouble. Hammock campers
are a small group compared to campers overall. Hammock camping in
winter is like taking a small boat across an ocean. Experience counts
and an order to make it appeal to more people you have to add a few
luxuries. And right now the luxury of a tent to get out of the
elements appeals to more winter campers. The advantages of a tent far
outweigh the negatives. More winter campers have frozen to death
trying to shave off a few oz's from their pack trying to go light.
--- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Womble" <dpwomble@...>
wrote:

>
> --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "ginohav" <ginohav@> wrote:
> >
> ... Why not just design a winter hammock tent. I'm talking a true
> > winter tent and not just a modified rain fly used as a tent...
>
> I'm not sure how you are defining a true winter tent for a hammock.
>
> Hammocks set up higher off the ground and usually attach to trees.
> Also they require longer shelters due to the profile of a hammock.
> All that would seem to complicate a few things for what I think of

for

> a true winter tent for a hammock where you need to be able to handle
> serious winds (and from any direction) and handle large clumps of

snow

> falling from limbs.
>
> Tents are restricted to cleared flat areas that are hopefully

level.

> Hammocks inherently are not but become more restrictive along those
> lines the more you try to put them inside a tent like enclosure.

With

> hammocks you hope to have more site selection options to limit your
> exposure. I worry that if you try to make true winter tent for a
> hammock that it might be like trying to make a tank out of a sports
> car where you end up with something that doesn't do anything well.
>
> Dave Womble
> aka Youngblood 2000AT
> designer of the Speer Segmented Pad Extender, SnugFit Underquilt,

and

> WinterTarp
>

Ralph Oborn

hammocks bounce around a lot. Just for an experiment 1. hang an unlit candle in your setup and see how much it moves while you move in and out. 2. Light the

Message 10 of 16
, Dec 27, 2008

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hammocks bounce around a lot.

Just for an experiment

1. hang an unlit candle in your setup and see how much it moves while you
move in and out.
2. Light the candle on a table and put some of your fabric 4 inches or so
above it and see if it starts to char after 15 minutes or so.
3. Then bounce it around some to see if the melted wax is contained.

Ralph Oborn

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tom Frazier

I have a candle lantern that I use, but I hang it outside my hammock, but inside my tarp from a guyline I run. No problems with burning even within six inches

Message 11 of 16
, Dec 27, 2008

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I have a candle lantern that I use, but I hang it outside my hammock, but inside my tarp from a guyline I run. No problems with burning even within six inches of the tarp fabric, but I watch it and usually have it hanging further away. There's always the LED laterns for folks who are worried about flaming issues!

1. hang an unlit candle in your setup and see how much it moves while you
move in and out.
2. Light the candle on a table and put some of your fabric 4 inches or so
above it and see if it starts to char after 15 minutes or so.
3. Then bounce it around some to see if the melted wax is contained.

Ralph Oborn

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ralph Oborn

Thanks, I ll stop worrying about you guys Ralph ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> I have a candle lantern that I use, but I hang it outside my hammock, but
> inside my tarp from a guyline I run. No problems with burning even within
> six inches of the tarp fabric, but I watch it and usually have it hanging
> further away. There's always the LED laterns for folks who are worried
> about flaming issues!
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ralph Oborn
> To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 9:19 AM
> Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: Winter hammock tents
>
>
> hammocks bounce around a lot.
>
> Just for an experiment
>
> 1. hang an unlit candle in your setup and see how much it moves while you
> move in and out.
> 2. Light the candle on a table and put some of your fabric 4 inches or so
> above it and see if it starts to char after 15 minutes or so.
> 3. Then bounce it around some to see if the melted wax is contained.
>
> Ralph Oborn
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dave Womble

I think we have similar feelings about this and that you may have missed a detail in my analogy? FWIW, I was referring to making a true winter tent for a

Message 13 of 16
, Dec 28, 2008

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I think we have similar feelings about this and that you may have
missed a detail in my analogy? FWIW, I was referring to making a true
winter tent for a hammock, where the 'for a hammock' part is an
important detail. Here is my statement: "I worry that if you try to
make true winter tent for a hammock that it might be like trying to
make a tank out of a sports car where you end up with something that
doesn't do anything well."

I do have what is arguable a true winter tent in a Stevenson 2R and
have made and used hammock tarptents. I have used both in mildish
winter conditions in the southeast Appalachian Mountains and can
easily appreciate the difference between their capabilities. In my
experience, the more I tried to make a winter tarptent for a hammock,
the more I felt like I was trying to make a tank out of a sports car
where I ended up with something that didn't do anything particularly
well. It looked impressive to those that didn't appreciate wind
loading, snow loads, complexity of setup, inflexibility of how it
could be setup, etc (and I didn't appreciate those myself until I got
field experience with it). In the end I settled for a winter tarp
design for a hammock that was capable of blocking direct hits from
moderate wind but was still sports car-ish enough to not be too
complex to setup and has lots of flexibility in how it can be setup.
I don't claim that my WinterTarp is a substitute for a true winter
tent-- I hope folks realize that and appreciate what tarps are capable
of compared to aerodynamic tents with lower profiles, no way for the
wind to get under them, and reinforcements by the way of poles,
guyouts, etc. In moderate winter conditions in a hammock, wind is a
major problem because of how much heat it takes away from you... that
is what I address with my WinterTarp for a hammock. I would never
suggest you can hang it on exposed ridgelines, etc like you can a true
winter tent when high winds or storms are expected.

Dave

--- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "ginohav" <ginohav@...> wrote:
>
> I don't think designing a winter tent will make a sports car into a
> tank. Unless you know how to handle winter conditions in a hammock a
> novice winter camper can quickly get into trouble. Hammock campers
> are a small group compared to campers overall. Hammock camping in
> winter is like taking a small boat across an ocean. Experience counts
> and an order to make it appeal to more people you have to add a few
> luxuries. And right now the luxury of a tent to get out of the
> elements appeals to more winter campers. The advantages of a tent far
> outweigh the negatives. More winter campers have frozen to death
> trying to shave off a few oz's from their pack trying to go light.
> --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Womble" <dpwomble@>
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "ginohav" <ginohav@> wrote:
> > >
> > ... Why not just design a winter hammock tent. I'm talking a true
> > > winter tent and not just a modified rain fly used as a tent...
> >
> > I'm not sure how you are defining a true winter tent for a hammock.
> >
> > Hammocks set up higher off the ground and usually attach to trees.
> > Also they require longer shelters due to the profile of a hammock.
> > All that would seem to complicate a few things for what I think of
> for
> > a true winter tent for a hammock where you need to be able to handle
> > serious winds (and from any direction) and handle large clumps of
> snow
> > falling from limbs.
> >
> > Tents are restricted to cleared flat areas that are hopefully
> level.
> > Hammocks inherently are not but become more restrictive along those
> > lines the more you try to put them inside a tent like enclosure.
> With
> > hammocks you hope to have more site selection options to limit your
> > exposure. I worry that if you try to make true winter tent for a
> > hammock that it might be like trying to make a tank out of a sports
> > car where you end up with something that doesn't do anything well.
> >
> > Dave Womble
> > aka Youngblood 2000AT
> > designer of the Speer Segmented Pad Extender, SnugFit Underquilt,
> and
> > WinterTarp
> >
>

gilmem2

You guys are right on target with your various concerns about winter hammock tents, and I really look forward to your progress. Meantime, I will throw out a

Message 14 of 16
, Dec 29, 2008

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You guys are right on target with your various concerns about winter
hammock tents, and I really look forward to your progress. Meantime,
I will throw out a compromise rig I use during the winter, which has
worked pretty good to 20 degrees with 30+ mph winds, even with a
cheap wallyworld synthetic bag and no underquilt stuff. It ain't
great, but is works for now.

I use the cheap polyethelene (blue, camo, etc) tarps from the
lumberyard or wally world. I keep several laying around for other
uses anyway. Depending on whether I am car camping or backpacking, I
use something from 10x16 up to 12x20.

I throw it over a ridge line and stake both sides to the ground with
the ridge a couple feet off center. I rig the height so that one
side is just above a 10/12 pitch, the other just below. 10/12 is
approximately wind neutral. Flatter causes uplift, while a steeper
pitch catches side pressure. Staying close to a 10/12 and staking to
the ground minimizes wind effects to a large degree.

For the ends I cut a 10x12 tarp in half down the diagonal, and I hook
one half to each end with 4to 6 tarp clips for car camping, or the
same number of pebbles and mason twine if backpacking. If the wind
is kicking hard, I stake out the center of each end as the size of
the tarp allows.

I try to rig so that the hammock hangs crosswind to let the big tarp
shed the wind. The ridge line is on the hammock entry side of the
trees, as is the flat or wide pitch. The hammock itself is rigged to
the back side of the trees. This allows a pretty big space on the
front side for chair or stool, changing, cooking, etc.

Low cost and effective, but a bit heavy and inelegant. With the
smaller tarp, I leave the most leeward end a bit loose to discourage
condensation, since the poly does not breathe at all. The bigger tarp
is less prone to the problem.

I like Dave's winter tarp design for backpacking, but for under $30 I
am fine with my rig for all winter here in Alabama, until someone
comes up with a nicer nylon rig a bit bigger than Dave's at a lower
price. At the rate y'all are going, that should be within a couple
of years. Above 40 degrees, I just use a nylon hex tarp, back side
low, front up a bit for easier access, and don't worry about it.

Like everyone else, I would really like something that handles like a
sports car, protects like a tank, and costs near nothing. Someone
out there can put it together.

>
> I think we have similar feelings about this and that you may have
> missed a detail in my analogy? FWIW, I was referring to making a

true

> winter tent for a hammock, where the 'for a hammock' part is an
> important detail. Here is my statement: "I worry that if you try to
> make true winter tent for a hammock that it might be like trying to
> make a tank out of a sports car where you end up with something that
> doesn't do anything well."
>
> I don't claim that my WinterTarp is a substitute for a true winter
> tent-- I hope folks realize that and appreciate what tarps are

capable

> of compared to aerodynamic tents with lower profiles, no way for the
> wind to get under them, and reinforcements by the way of poles,
> guyouts, etc. In moderate winter conditions in a hammock, wind is a
> major problem because of how much heat it takes away from you...

that

> is what I address with my WinterTarp for a hammock. I would never
> suggest you can hang it on exposed ridgelines, etc like you can a