Unleashing her sexual appetite

Thanks for the tip. I think I’ll read Dr. Laura’s book, but I doubt I’ll leave it around for my wife to find.

My first impression, without having read the book (just the reviews on Amazon) is that Dr. Laura’s book might be helpful to women who come from traditional American families and who grew up with a beloved role model to teach them a dignified way of keeping their husbands happy. These women may be able to remember their pre-feminism training and take some comfort in a return to more traditional family values.

I doubt the book would be of much help to women from less idealized, 1950’s style households, however. Dr. Laura’s advice is likely to sound very alien, if not oppressive, to them.

My wife is very much like her mother. Focused on status, money, career, honor, and loyalty. These are her family values. Warmth, intimacy, and happiness are simply not important. The words, “I just want to be happy” have never been uttered by anyone in her family.

My wife is likely to dismiss Dr. Laura as a conservative, religious crackpot and a loser. Leaving her book around the house for my wife to find would just get me in deeper trouble. I would become “the oppressor.”

Maybe I’ll have a different impression after I read it.

10-26-2004, 12:48 AM

Unicorn762

This is more a letter to you than a post, I hope it is ok with you all. I find it has great value for me to write about it and to exchange experiences with you in order to better understand what we initiated last week. Also, I’m aware that not everyone have any simple solutions to find by backtracking how you may have contributed to create the problems.

Reading your posts, especially Sparkyx and Monty’s, I sympathize deeply with thoughts about her being the one that needs to change and adapt to your needs. For too many years I did everything possible to make her feel like having sex more often; showing my appreciation of her looks, great body and intelligence, showing respect to her in everything I do and say to her, showing that I am very attracted to her, surprise her now and then, etc. I even wanted to surprise her with a meatier, harder dick to see if it helped boost her sexual appetite. I also tried to talk about it with her more directly of course. Reminding her how long it was since last time was my idea of how to be explicit and honest about my needs. It just made her upset, she felt even less for sex when hearing me repeat it “so often” as she said. I could not see that she made much of an effort: she almost never took the initiative for sex, and turned down at least 95% of mine. Being rejected like a horny dog made me angry, if she really loves me she should have no problems to satisfy my needs to make me happy. I recognize exactly those feelings. I could not understand why she did not to try harder, considering the fact there are lots of other women around that would be more than pleased to give me what she denied me.

Yet I think most women try hard to find a way to adapt. They try to live up to their ideals of the perfect woman/wife/mother, formed by her upbringing, school, previous sex experiences, religion, movies, books, magazines, advertising, infomercials. As with us, conforming to the ideals and norms boosts their self confidence, deviations make them feel depressed and miserable. It is easier to see the stupidities that go into the complex matrix of ideals in women than those that shape our personality as men. For instance, women, much more then men, are led to believe in the importance of a perfect body. In my limited experience, they are almost never pleased with their physical appearance regardless how beautiful they are, and there is very little we can do about it. It makes them feel unattractive, less confident, and their libido suffers. As you say Sparkyx, many women are also fed a bunch of lies and stereotypes about “how men are” -basically simple animals- and that it can be a good strategy to keep them on a sex starvation diet as a means of control. I have not read Dr. Laura’s book, maybe it can give many women something to think about. However, as I understand the general idea from your description, if I had my wife to read the book she would probably feel even more guilty she was unable to satisfy my sexual needs as she perceived them. The consequence would be even less sexual appetite and activity from her side. This is because the problem was not a lack of effort from her side. On the contrary, she was almost too quick to learn and jump to conclusions about how to behave sexually, and I reinforced those assumptions and beliefs without knowing how it would hurt her libido in the long term. I see now that I basically share ModestoMan’s impression of the book as described here, I’m sure it is worth reading to see if it could be useful to boost her libido despite our doubts!

If I elaborate a little about my own experience, I was extremely surprised to learn that she inhibited her desires of quick sex at odd places in order to accommodate my perceived need for “long, intense, perfect sex sessions”. Here, she thought she was expected to have her multiple super orgasms in silence in order not to disturb my erection, based on what she learned from trial and error and a few instances of “failing performance” from my side. She did not believe I could change my preferences as she had learned them, and was afraid that exposing them for open discussion could have consequences for me such as ED and ultimately killing the few instances of good sex that was left after all. So she adapted. It was still quite ok for her, she loved the infrequent long sessions giving us both great pleasure, and there was always the good old vibrator to make up for the lack of quick sex she secretly desired now and then. Our hugs and kisses was enough to fill the basic need for everyday love and closeness.

I knew exactly where all that crap was coming from, it is not entirely right to call them ‘misunderstandings’. I’m ten years older than she is, and she was just 20 when we met: I think she saw herself as the great sex master’s apprentice, since I was the only man she had met who could give her orgasm. Although she played her part with great enthusiasm when I got inspired by Tantric sex in the beginning, what was left of it after being constrained by family life and work a decade later was nothing but a bag of tricks and expectations of orgasms as more or less mandatory. That is, her impression of my expectations were partly true in the sense that I really love to give her orgasms, she loves to have them as well of course, and to experience mine. What I did not realize was that also made her feel unable to meet my expectations on a more regular basis. We agreed that we should take the full responsibility for our own orgasms from now on, care less about whether or not the other had one, but not be shy about asking for or receiving ‘assistance’, giving guidance and so forth.

The results from our talk came as a natural consequence. It started the same evening we had our chat with her taking initiative to show what she meant by making love without implicit performance requirements. This was a new and very exciting experience to both of us, and I gladly left it to her to take the initiative for the continued learning/training sessions. I think it is important now for me to stand back for a while and let us realize and develop her exciting fantasies. Training in those “awkward situations” was especially important to prove to ourselves it can be made to work and feel fantastic for both, accepting ‘failures’ as necessary experience. I found my PE exercising helped very much to overcome the difficulties I had, to speed up the reprogramming process. It was a great relief for me to simply quit worrying about the level of erection, just making love without expectations. The fact that we have had more sex during the last week than in a whole year before is a side effect, a very nice one of course since that was my original goal together with increasing her sexual appetite.

As Rita commented, our talk caused dramatic change to our relation, which is irreversible. It requires that both parties drop the usual armour and expose themselves to each other about beliefs, assumptions, secret desires - to a certain limit! This should not be something to be afraid of if the parties have complete trust and feel confident nothing that is revealed will be turned against them under any circumstances. However, there were some subjects that felt extremely dangerous when approached, traps if you like. I would not tell her about PE at this time, for instance, far too high risk she would take it in the wrong way. Maybe later, in some form like “darling, maybe you feel it is much harder and bigger now so be careful. I’ve heard it could happen after the kegel practising I do regularly”. Another one was the issue of mutual and absolute faithfulness that proved to be an indivisible core value that was to be left out of any analysis. To ask or tell her about the existence or fantasies about other partners, threesomes etc would have disastrous consequences for us. I made a slight probe in that direction, she reacted very strongly so evasive manoeuvres were called for. I guess a good rule is not to ask things or approach issues where a truthful answer has potential to destroy your relationship. On the other hand, without subtle probes there is no way to find out areas of shared secret desires that may be explored and perhaps acted upon… J

Bottom line is that I saw myself as a quite sensitive, considerate guy until Wednesday last week. Then I learned my wife had to live with a dominant sex dictator for a decade, making her feel increasingly inadequate to the point that he almost managed to kill her sexual desire… the truth may be somewhere in the middle.

10-26-2004, 04:59 PM

VegasGuy

Unicorn,

Sounds like you Mrs. Unicorn had an epiphany. Awesome.

-Vegas

Move a little closer, Honey.

I've got a big prick for you.

10-26-2004, 07:42 PM

Rita M.M.

U,

So glad you guys had a breakthrough. And you are right on about women’s perception of how they should look. We are taught that we should be as near perfect as possible. My ex-husband perpetuated that myth. He told me that aside from infidelity, gaining weight would be the worst thing I could ever do. Nice, huh? I became inhibited about my body and therefore wasn’t interested in being seen and ultimately didn’t trust my body to him.

Thankfully, it wasn’t too late for me :) I now have a man who loves me for me. Who likes my individuality and is interested in what my brain conjures up. That’s half the fun of our relationship - being able to come up with off the wall stuff and have the other listen and be interested. Life is exciting and I am eager for the years ahead.

As I have mentioned in previous posts, this is my second marriage. Those who have read my posts have read that I am an extremely lucky and happy guy with my current wife.

Our sex life is varied, exciting and plentiful (when she’s home).

My first marriage of 13 years was lonely, full of rejection and very little sex.

Whats the difference? Why is one so much better than the other?

Very simple…my second wife is very interested in making me happy. Does that mean we didn’t have any misunderstandings or things to over come? Actually, we ran into many roadblocks in our relationship, but because I am equally interested in her happiness, we could get past them.

Its very much like the difference between a discussion and a argument.

In a argument, you want to get your point across…period.

In a discussion, you listen first to understand the others position, then try and convey yours…and try to come to some larger understanding of the issue.

In an argument, no matter how well or long or forcefully you put across your position, the other person is never moved an inch.

In a discussion, there is hope for mutual understanding and respect of point of view.

In a relationship, if you are lucky, the other person is as interested in your happiness as their own. The wise person realizes they are intertwined. Even then, it isn’t easy. But it is possible.

In a relationship where one or both isn’t interested in the happiness of the other…it is doomed. It is just a matter of time.

In my first marriage, she really wasn’t interested in my happiness. So it really didn’t matter how much or how long I tried. The crucial component, her good will, was missing. I spent 13 years trying. I could’ve spent another 80 and the outcome would have been the same.

She was ok with our marriage, because I always treated her with respect and consideration, and even though she let her weight slowly balloon up to 350 lbs, I was never rude or demeaning to her.

I on the other hand, felt like I was slowly dying off. My loneliness was at times unbearable. I couldn’t stand to watch movies or see couples in love…way too painful.

What kept me there as long as I was, was my two kids, whom I loved like my own life, and she knew it.

Anyway, to cut short this sob story, I met my current wife, got out.

I consider myself one of the luckiest guys in the world, and my wife feels equally lucky.

We both have found someone who cares as much about the others happiness as our own, and THAT is the magic ingredient!

Sparkyx

10-27-2004, 06:00 PM

Kawaihae

Nice story sparkyx, I am happy for you.

I have been doing alot of thinking about my marriage this past couple of weeks, (and even some talking with my wife!). Turns out I’ve made some discoveries. My wife pretry much feels that I am not interested in her happiness. Why? Because I don’t have a lot of time to hang out with her and the kids. These past few years I have been working my butt off trying to provide money and a nice house and a stable income, and I thought that was evidence of how much I cared, to put in the extra hours and effort and energy, so she could work part time, and take off whenever she wanted and be with the kids Turns out she didn’t see it like I did, she sees it as an effort to avoid her. Well how’s that for communication failure. Sounds like some stupid TV show plot.

10-27-2004, 06:34 PM

Rita M.M.

Sparky,

Awesome. We have had similar pasts.

Kawaihae,

Well, you guys are talking. That’s good, right? :)

10-27-2004, 06:43 PM

Kawaihae

Well…sort of talking…but it is a good start. It will take some time.

10-27-2004, 07:05 PM

ModestoMan

Kawaihae,

Great progress! Are you willing to work less? Does she want to work more? This could work out really well for both of you. Who knows, you might even get laid.

Sparkyx,

I’m happy for you, too. It sounds like you’ve got a great thing going.

10-27-2004, 07:16 PM

Kawaihae

Oh yeah, I am definitely willing to work less, I’ve been killing myself for 10 years. I don’t think she will work in the office more, and I wouldn’t ask her to. But she’ll need to take on some responsibility with management, and also at home - like arrange to get her car maintained/fixed, pull the weeds when the yard starts to look crappy, replace lightbulbs when they burn out, take out the trash instead of piling it in the corner. I’m not gonna take responsiility for doing everything like I typically have done. If she complains, I’ll just remind her of our talk.

10-27-2004, 07:25 PM

ModestoMan

Kawaihae,

With all of your hard work and success, why don’t you guys just hire a housekeeper and/or groundskeeper. I suppose you could also hire an admin who could help you at work with office administration.

You could sell this to Mrs. K as a gift from you to her. Rather than heaping more burden on her (or yourself), you can outsource these responsibilities so that the two of you can have more time to have fun together, both with the kids and alone.

That would show her that you care.

10-27-2004, 07:45 PM

Kawaihae

Well I’d love to hire help, but good grief, I’d have to get a second job to pay them! But I am making some progress, I took my own truck to a mechanic today. Typically I fix it myself to save money. See, I am trying…a first step!

10-27-2004, 07:58 PM

jays0423

You know, we decided that the kids were needing a mom at home so she stayed home and we just simply did without a whole lot of “stuff”. In the end, we were better for it. Obvisously you need the basics but we found we could do nicely on very little income.

The kids only come once and their missing their missing Dad is a biggie! You will still be a good provider, so be there to provide it, and it is more than money.

been there

10-27-2004, 08:24 PM

Kawaihae

Jays, I hear what you’re saying and I agree, people can live happy lives without all the stuffs out there. I am an advocate of frugal living. But still, the mechanic just called, its gonna cost me $1500 to fix what I could have done myself this weekend. That’s a big chunk of change.

10-27-2004, 08:27 PM

tps

You can still do it yourself. Offer to pay the “diagnostic fee” and thank him very much and you’ll just “have to wait until you can afford it” and then do it yourself.