so, I've been browsing the forums for a couple of weeks now, but unfortunately, I'm more confused than ever. Seems like there's so many choices that it's next to impossible to narrow it down myself. Then, I see all these names thrown around, and I look in the review list, and they're not at the top of the list - which, also confuses me. So, here's my deal.

I am looking for an espresso machine only right now. My budget is around $500-800. I do not want to consider a grinder atm, I'm happy buying store-bought for now (illy, etc.).

I do not want to use pods, but prefer to use a tamper et. al. I was a barista for about 2 years when I was much younger, and I'm interested in a good steamer as a product feature for my espresso machine.

I live in Toronto, Canada. Aesthetics are fairly important as well.

I will primarily be making Cappucino and Lattes, as opposed to espressos. I currently have a Breville, but I'm not happy with it.

so, I've been browsing the forums for a couple of weeks now, but unfortunately, I'm more confused than ever. Seems like there's so many choices that it's next to impossible to narrow it down myself. Then, I see all these names thrown around, and I look in the review list, and they're not at the top of the list - which, also confuses me. So, here's my deal.

There are so many quality machine options out there that suit different purposes, budgets, and even aesthetic preferences, that you will never find everyone shouting out that "Machine X, is the one we've all been waiting for and it's the one and only for everyone". And i'm sure if there ever was, it wouldn't be under $1000.

You have to decide what's right for you, no one else can do that.

justpete Said:

I am looking for an espresso machine only right now. My budget is around $500-800. I do not want to consider a grinder atm, I'm happy buying store-bought for now (illy, etc.).

This is the biggest problem with what you've said so far. It doesn't seem like you've done much reading or searching here yet. Focusing on the machine is never going to get you a decent espresso. The first two things you need to make good coffee are good beans from a local roaster and a quality grinder.

Having a $6,000 machine and no grinder is frankly useless.

For espresso, that means spending at least $250-275+ on grinder alone.

Using store bought pre-ground coffee is going to net you the same results in in the cup as using pods, but more effort and a messier kitchen. The only way to make the "great" coffee you are asking for is by grinding fresh beans yourself, at home on a good grinder.

If you really want to buy pre-ground, pre-packaged coffee, I've heard from several people that a Nespresso can provide consistent, drinkable(not amazing), but convenient coffee. And you can save a few hundred too.

justpete Said:

I was a barista for about 2 years when I was much younger, and I'm interested in a good steamer as a product feature for my espresso machine.

I live in Toronto, Canada. Aesthetics are fairly important as well.

I will primarily be making Cappucino and Lattes, as opposed to espressos.

The best machines for making lots of milk drinks and steaming lots of milk are going to be entry level Heat Exchanger machines. These machines start at around $1000 (Bezzera BZ07, for example) and are still useless without a high quality grinder and freshly roasted(not purchased) beans.

Frankly, you would be able to make better coffee by spending your money on a good grinder and brewing with the breville, than by buying yet another machine and no grinder, no matter how much money you have to spend on said machine. Hint Hint.

To sum up:If you refuse to grind the beans yourself, then save your money and buy a Nespresso with coffee capsules. Its extremely convenient and can even provide a decent, not great, cup of coffee with extreme repeatabilty and almost no effort. And the machines aren't bad looking either. They also offer an auto-frother unit that does the milk frothing for you too. My girlfriend has one of these machines and loves it, btw.

If you want a "great" espresso, then buy a good grinder and locally-roasted fresh beans, and use the Breville until you can afford to purchase a better machine at a later time.

so, I've been browsing the forums for a couple of weeks now... I am looking for an espresso machine only right now. My budget is around $500-800. I do not want to consider a grinder atm, I'm happy buying store-bought for now

IMO: That's all the info I needed to hear. My answer is, DON'T. Buy a great grinder for now and use something like the Espro Press (a Canadian company) and save for an espresso machine. Having an espresso machine and no grinder is just an expensive way to get rid of a lot of coffee.

If you have browsed the forums sufficiently you would have read many times: "The grinder is more important than the espresso machine. The espresso machine is an accessory to the grinder."

The Four M's of Espresso:1) the Macinazione is the grinder, and with it, the correct grinding of the coffee beans;2) the Miscela is the coffee beans/blend itself;3) the Macchina is the espresso machine; and 4) the Mano is the skilled hand of the barista.

All four are important. Nothing is more important than the grinder.

/ / / / /

Babbie's Rule* of Fifteens:-- Green (unroasted) coffee beans should be roasted within 15 months, or they go stale.-- Roasted coffee beans should be ground within 15 days, or they go stale.-- Ground coffee should be used within 15 minutes, or it goes stale.

Your choice.

Cheers,Jason

* OK, so there are very few hard-and-fast "rules" -- more like "rules-of-thumb."

It's a lecture worth listening to. It really is. Here's a link for you- you can choose the combo deal with the Lelit PL43 grinder and still be about 75 under budget. Looks like they include a tamper, cups, spoons, etc in the deal. Lelit PL41EM Espresso Machine

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