An excellent build-up for that final episode. My big worry right now is the pacing, because there is A LOT that still needs to be revealed. On top of that, the story needs to reach its conclusion, the themes have to be wrapped up, as well as the ton of side-plots that were going on. Oh, I really hope that the creators are going to be able to pull this off. I won’t mind a few questions left open, but I will mind it if the creators end up rushing though the ending.

And yeah, I was wrong: Suou is the only copy alive at this point: the original doctor survived and instead had a clone of his killed. In the meantime, the real doctor dies in this episode. From a shot in his leg. Seriously, I think that this is the first time in anime in which a character dies from such a minor injury, although it does make sense: he was treated poorly and ended up bleeding to death. Though it gets a bit hard to believe amongst anime where characters survive multiple gunshots without being treated for days in some cases. :P

There’s just one thing… how did the golem guy survive? His fight against Suou doesn’t really make any sense: he was shot in the eye before and he was just fine, and then he gets shot in his forehead, where the impact is apparently strong enough to cause a flesh-wound and knock him unconscious, but nothing more…

I also finally remembered to keep watching after the ED, and those were some major scenes this time: Mao is the blond woman’s former lover? Heh.Rating: ** (Excellent)

I am going to hold all my frustration and anger for the last episode. I am currently so pissed off at this series that it is almost impossible to put everything to words. What a giant pile of motherfucking shit this second season has turned into; most of it is due to the shift in focus from the main character, Hei, to that stupid slut.

Why are you so angry? Its not like they explained anything in the first season. Why should they do it now. Yes its frustrating but this season is basically Suous story and I hope that at least her story gets a conclusion. As for the rest I expect very little.

Well, it is not official or anything like that. But the rumors that I’ve read at 2-3 places are supposing that the 4 extra episodes focusing on Hei will be used to “judge” if the third season for DtB is viable or not.

Besides, as you (and many others) have said, nothing is getting resolved by this season of DtB, so the chances of a 3rd season (given strong sales) remains high.

lol inter4ever your comment made my day :D
By the way in the last 2-3 episodes the plot completely fell apart, it doesn’t make any sense. The first series was all about the main character kicking ass with some fight action, it was never a “smart” series to begin with; then for this season they deciced to focus more on the plot adding a new female protagonist and developing her character. The fact is that the plot isn’t really that good, and Shion is there just to attract moe fans. It’s a shame because at first I thought Shion was an interesting character. Then they make her look like a loli and fall in love with the protagonist (and even in the series is pointed out that she is just a kid).

I still enjoy this series a lot. There’s no question that the themes of the 2nd season are very different from the 1st, and I definitely wish that there was more attention paid to hei and yin. I mean they built Suou into a pretty good character, but it means nothing unless she’s part of the 3rd season … if there is one.

I think the 4 OVA episodes that will come with the DVD will fill in some gaps about why Yin is captured and why Hei was in a drinking state. Besides from the Title Ryuusei no Gemini you already knew who the main focus will be on.

“There’s just one thing… how did the golem guy survive? His fight against Suou doesn’t really make any sense: he was shot in the eye before and he was just fine, and then he gets shot in his forehead, where the impact is apparently strong enough to cause a flesh-wound and knock him unconscious, but nothing more…”

The shot that exposed his eye hit his shoulder though. And none of the shots actually got to him, only the concrete. The forces from the shots still affected him though, so the shot directly to the forehead knocked him out.

I have just watched the OVA PV before tackling this episode and there’s something that’s been bothering me: Yin… is pregnant?

Mao and that Golem contractor have repeatedly saying that Yin was Hei’s former lover. From what I remember in the first season, Yin’s love for Hei was unrequited. But after watching the OVA’s PV (which takes place between the first and second season), what Mao and ‘Golem’ said seems to be true.

So, let’s assume that Hei and Yin were lovers. Then, let’s also assume that Izanami is Yin. And then, let’s consider what ‘the leader of Section 3’ says: “The sign shall be a rising cressent moon that never sinks. When it becomes full, Izanami will reach her final month of pregnancy.”

After watching the PV, there’s a scene that seems to suggest that they were quite intimate. I could be wrong but if we take the quote in the literal way, does that mean Yin is pregnant of Hei’s child?

The fact that Mao mentions that Hei has changed Yin’s life sort of puts more silly ideas into my mind, so I’m getting a little confused here. Am I thinking a little too far?

The plot thickens! It had been surmised that Shion was always a contractor even before he was born, and it looks like that guess was right. It’s also been surmised that Shion even created Suou in the womb as well, but the Dr. only stated that Suou wasn’t present when the meteor fell so that part of it is unconfirmed. The Dr. did mention that Shion’s copies always had one difference from the original, in Suou’s case it’s that she’s a girl and Shion’s a boy, so there might be some credence to that womb theory.

Anyway, I wondered too if Golem boy was dead from being shot in the head but it looks like he was just knocked out for the count (he certainly made a quick recovery). The Madame’s getup made me laugh for a bit since she looked like some sort of sentai action heroine along with that anti-contractor ray gun. The fact that she and Mao are ex-lovers is even more funny. The part where Suou disappeared during July’s reunion with Misaki was a bit odd but I’m guessing that was an illusion on the loli-twins’ part.

The bit with Yin and “her last month of pregnancy” – I’m not sure if it’s literal or something figurative. I did watch the DtB OVA as well before watching this and I was really surprised at how intimate Hei and Yin were suggested to be in some of their brief scenes together. Hei x Yin appears official at this point. (Though Suou’s feelings of Hei… probably just Stockholme’s Syndrome.)

The big question now is whether or not Yin really is with Hei’s child (they never did show Yin’s belly while she was still in the box…), and what that might mean if Shion enters the picture (would he try to create a copy of the child; would that somehow bring about said disaster and the unknown being everyone’s talking about?)? Yin is certainly not acting like herself, and I’ve been wondering now is it because that might be due to the child she’s possibly carrying (hormones bringing back her emotions, or even possibly the unborn child controlling her actions)?

Certainly more questions than answers.

Hei vs. Hazuki. Should be a kickass fight!

And yes, you can easily die by bleeding out if the femoral artery in either leg is severed. Something to consider if anyone wants to go shooting people in the leg just to stop them from running, heh. Movies often don’t work out like real life.

**** SPOILER ALERT ****
**** LONG MESSAGE ALERT ****
The above message is there not because I know anything that will be coming up, but because some of what I am writing down (some speculative, some based on what has already transpired) may be perceived as such. With only the final chapter to go, it’s clear that the producers are not going to be using the time to connect all the dots or explicitly answers everything, particularly the smaller stuff. So here’s what I think we are already suppose to have understood of the story line (I am doing this for my own edification, as it help me out, and for those who could use some background commentary. For those who enjoy looking back only after the entire story is told, please stop reading!):

1) The Power Struggle background- Starting with Season 1, there have always been several political/military factions trying to control things, including the Syndicate, CIA, MI-5, etc. In Season 2, the Russians (through the Colonel) were also added to the game. As of right now, however, only Section 3 and the CIA are left. The former were the keeper/user of Yin/Inazami and the new owner to the doll system. The Russians, unknown to them, were the ones who had Inazagi (Shion), as they were the ones sponsoring the Doctor/Father’s work. His work was on the ME machine, something able to “create”/harness contractor power. Looking back, Shion was really the one who had that power. The CIA are the new kids in the block, who have been working covertly (they are the CIA, after all) trying obtain both Inazagi and Inazami for themselves. As such, they are the ones (through contracting Hei, the blonde, etc.) who initiate the action in Season 2 and go to Siberia to try to steal Shion.

2) The Myth thread; Shion/Inazagi – It’s now explained that the war at Heaven’s gate was a result of the myth of Inazagi/Inazami, and everyone going after this mythical power to change the world (as told by the Mitaka documents) or control/create/eliminate the contractors’ powers. Hei “lost” his sister in that war, which led to his quest in Season 1 to seek her out. At some point in that war, we “inherited” his Sister’s powers (or a small portion of it), and became the key for unlocking Hell’s gate, which he then refuses to do. In Season 2, by getting zapped by the Section 3 machine (harnessed through Yin’s power to destroy contractors). He is “saved” from death by Suou’s amulet, but in the process loses his power. What the amulet does is still a mystery, but one which will likely be answered in the final chapter. So Shion’s power is to create beings/contractors, which was further enhanced two years before Season 2 started, when a meteor crashed somehow increased his power and he became Inazagi (creator).

3) The Myth – Inazami: This part of the myth is significantly more muddled. How did Yin become Inazami, I would guess, will not be answered in this final chapter, but in the OVA, which tells the story of what happen to Hei/Yin during the “lost years” between Season 1 and 2. (By now people already know that Season 2 was not really about Hei/Yin, but about Suou’s arc). If I were to guess, Yin is carrying Hei’s baby (as many speculated), and that is how she became Inazami. I would go further and speculate that she “inherited” the power that originally belonged to Hei’s sister and was passed down to her through Hei (who inherited from her sister before she disappeared in the Heaven’s gate war). Hei’s sister was the most powerful contractor, whose power was to destroy contractors, which is Inazami’s power. That would be one way to make this all tie up. It also explains why Hei wanted (and perhaps still want) to “destroy” Yin, and started Season 2 as a drunk, cold killer, as he was the one who felt responsible for Yin’s transformation to what she is now.

3) The blonde (and her twins) – Perhaps the most underdeveloped, but key character in Season 2. Her role in the plot is that of a manipulator, the puppet mistress, if you will. My guess is that she was ex-Syndicate (alluded by the fact that she has a former romantic tryst with Mao/Ricardo/Momongo). In the Syndicate, she was probably much like Huang, a human manager of contractors for the syndicate (perhaps Mao’s former handler?). In Season 2, she is a “free-agent” who works at times for the CIA, but who has her own agenda. Her “power” is derived from the twins who, perhaps because they are two of them, have the ability to infiltrate into the “doll” network and obtain information on everyone and everything. She clearly has her own agenda, which is still a bit of a mystery. In this chapter, she cuts ties with the CIA (they call her cell phone before she gets rid of it), who are now trying to rid of her. She wants Shion and also Suou for herself, and used Hei, Kisaki, and Suou (through July) to force what is about to happen.

4) CIA – Not much to say here, other than they are one of the antagonists in this story, albeit they don’t show up that much other than to create havoc and kill (in Siberia and now in Tokyo). It’s likely that they were the ones who killed Hazuki’s lover, to obtain information on the whereabouts of Inazami. It’s also likely that they got wind of her kidnap through the blonde puppet mistress.

5) Section 3 – The other antagonists. A few things to fill in here. Golem (the contractor buddying up to Kisaki) is likely a double-agent working for the CIA. I am speculating this from the fact that he is trying to find out more than what is told to him and seems chummy with the CIA, when they descended upon the dead body of the doctor, as he was stopped from mutilating the doc’s dead body by the CIA operative. He is intent of getting Shion, not for Section 3, but for the CIA. Hazuki, the girl-loving sword wielding contractor working for Section 3, was manipulated to the airport by Hei (or the blonde) to meet with her grandfather. This provided an opening for Hei to kidnap her lover and obtain the whereabouts for Yin. Kisaki somehow finds out about this plot, when she herself tries to find out a way to get information on Yin’s whereabouts (not sure exactly how she got that information by looking in her computer.) As for the doll system under control by Section 3, it looks like it is how the Puppet Mistress infiltrates into Section 3. She is able to intercept info as well as it down at times, through the twins.

4) Kisaki – Like Season 1, Kisaki really is nothing more than a foil character. She represents the human who is lost and manipulated by everyone. She is the character that least changed from Season 1, and for a good reason. She represents us, the viewer. Through her, we get to go along in this crazy ride, amazed at all the plots, power struggles and twists and turns. She is there to provide us a reference point and, to a lesser extent, as the bumbling, after-the-fact, investigator. The only problem is that the writers have been having a hard time keeping her in the series, creating many hard-to-believe coincidences to have her tag along with the action. A bit of a weak point, but, nonetheless, an essential character to provide contrast and explanations to things.

5) Hei-Yin – Not much will be answered about them here of what happened to them after the Hell’s gate incident. If we are fortunate, we will know what their “end” will be, but their story leading to this season is likely going to be told elsewhere (OVA is my guess).

6) Suou – The true protagonist and the most interesting character. If you had expectations of Hei and Yin carrying the show, then you are probably pretty disappointed right now. If you, OTOH, got interested in Suou, then this series was probably much more compelling to you. You can tell which one you are just by measuring the level of interest you have on Suou’s fate in the upcoming final chapter. If it’s cursory, then you will likely judge this as a “blah” series (or even awful). If that is pretty critical to you, then this series likely was enjoyable. I am of the latter, as I found the character to be quite creative. You have a non-japanese/not foreign, not-contractor/not-human, not girl/not adult, not even real!, who is trying to figure out how she fits in this whole scheme. That, to me, is quite a departure from many other shows. I don’t have a clue what she will end up, but I am very eager to find out. That puts me squarely on the side that got “hooked”.

I don’t know if this is all right, but I hope that this helps those who needed some “connect the dots” info. It did help me to jot it down…

btw… why is Shion considered to be Izanagi again? For some reason i think it’s going to turn out to be Suon who is important, because of her(?) origins. Did anyone else get the impression that Shion might have created Suon out of something that came out of the meteor strike?

I just had another idea. Maybe who we thought was Yin all this time manifesting herself through observation ghosts is Hei and Yin’s unborn child, and not Yin herself. Who knows? We’re almost at the end of the series and it seems like they’ll have to cram in a lot to answer all these questions.

As for Shion being Izanagi, according to the legend Izanagi is a bringer of life while Izanami is a bringer of death (he vowed to create 1500 lives for every 1000 Izanami would take). Given Shion’s ability to make copies, even of living human beings, it makes sense to connect him to Izanagi. But again, it could very well be Suou and not Shion fated to bring disaster if she ever meets Izanami/Yin.

Question. The police said that the only way to keep Izanami and Izanagi from their fateful reunion was to kill Izanagi. Why didn’t they just kill Izanami, whom they had/have in their possession instead? You can’t have them meeting if one of them is dead. I smell a minor flaw in logic there…

Besides that, this episode was pretty good. It was definitely a build up for the finale. Here’s hoping it will be a decent conclusion. I liked the fact that Mao slept with the crazy blonde chick. lol.

Ha ha! Props to you fumachu; that was an awesome post (despite the odd numbering)! Loved it! Thank you for the information.

Now that I think about it, Golem was indeed pretty chummy with the CIA. I guess Golem being a double-agent would support the reason why he’s been trying to fish around for some information from Misaki.

I sense many plot holes to come in the last episode, so I’m pretty happy to see that there’s a possibility of a third season. I highly doubt an OVA and an episode would cover the essential/main plot holes but needless to say, I really want a third season.

With fumachu’s insightful post, I also see the reason why Suou is the new main focus of the series. If the myth of Izanami and Izanagi the main focus of the story/the gates/the outcome of the gates, we can assume that the producers tried to separate the myths into two sections:

1. focus on Izanami in the first season: Hei being the key element that changed Yin’s life. In order to see the changes in Yin, the audience had to get familiar with the person who changed her life–which is Hei, the main protagonist in the first season.

and

2.focus on Izanagi on the second: Suou being the key element that changed Shion’s life. While Shion had the ability to create life/harness contractor powers, Suou was the one that really changed his life. Without her appearance, Shion would have never been able to grant her powers and ‘create’ a copy of her.

And I guess this is also how Hei can relate to Suou so much and tried to help her. They were both seeking for someone really important (whom happened to be both Izanami and Izanagi) in their life but they were both originally not contractors and were granted with those powers. It could be Hei and Suou the ones who are going to create the disaster (even though it was told that Izanami’s and Izanagi’s reunion would be a disastrous thing)?

I think the myth can also explain your question. I’m going to quote this from Raika’s post: “the vowed to create 1500 lives for every 1000 Izanami would take.” From what I remember, humans have been trying to get rid of contractors. While many of them tried to use them as weapons, they were originally considered as unwelcomed aliens. So if they kill Izanagi, and leave Izanami off on a contractor killing spree, it would resolve the root of their problem and achieve their goal effortlessly.(No more contractors! Woo hoo! Not)

Of course, it could be a minor flaw like you’ve mentioned. I still don’t understand how Hei managed to save Suou and July (and Mao) when they were kidnapped by a Russian contraction…

and not to mention how Golem managed to survive that bullet(of course it was explained in earlier post how he managed to survive but it’s iffy), I mean… do you remember how Tanya was killed? Shion shot her from a pretty long distance and look at the impact! Half of her stomach was blown off. While Mr. Golem was covered in rock, I would assume the impact would be bigger since Suou shot him in a closer range.

Kaiser-Eoghan
I enjoy TONS of subtitled stuff, but I have to admit...sometimes to re-winding and pausing when the dialogue gets heavy or complex.

Kaiser-Eoghan
I know Aico has a shit dub but sometimes I find myself watching in English and feeling lazy because its easier to watch more now that way.

Kaiser-Eoghan
I used to be able to marathon stuff so easily but now I can't do the 12 episodes in one go thing like I used to.

Kaiser-Eoghan
Something goes off, even after 30 minutes to an hour "Shit....have to see if something update...like NOW....can't stop myself"

Kaiser-Eoghan
I'm not the kind of person who messes with their phone in a cinema, but at home somehow theres this moments where I just get this distracting urge to keep checking some site, E-mail, snacking, going to the bathroom too often or lie down, look at someones doujin/smut art or write something all when I'm supposed to be doing something else.

Kaiser-Eoghan
What I mean is, I'll be reading/watching something and its not boring at all, maybe even interesting, but I can't stop pausing sometimes for...reasons and it takes me longer to get through something because of this.

Kaiser-Eoghan
I know this is pretty much an effect of living in this generation but, for those of you who experience this, how do you guys deal with "distraction." Sometimes this annoys me....

Kaiser-Eoghan
@Amagi: I'm evasive of "non-old man pubs" at night , particularly late at night, I don't want to come across any "characters" I'd prefer not to encounter.

Amagi
Well it's the reason why I never drink alcohol at home. Even if I were depressed it wouldn't change my mood so it's pointless.

Amagi
I can reach a point where I feel like dreaming but none of my character traits change. Guess it always varies depending on the person. Same with my best friend, he's just get tired when drunk, but nothing else ever happens.

Amagi
@Kaiser: Same here. Often go to pubs with friends at night but not only do I not want to ever get my mind "altered" by alcohol, it doesn't even work it seems. Or maybe it's the will or that I am just not influenceable.

KTravlos
I have been drunk, I do not like it. I do like being tipsy, but hate drunk. I generally like beer because it does not muck me up as bad as harder drinks (ouzo, raki, and I absolutely despise tequila). The first time in my life I celebrated Valentine's Day was this year. Have to say that it was not too bad.

Kaiser-Eoghan
Baccardi and Vodka were the only forms of alcohol I felt didn't especially taste "off" to me.

Kaiser-Eoghan
I also dislike Valentines day for the schmaltz, insincerity, fakeness around it and the idea there has to be "a day" for it and the captilization, commercialization of emotions.

Kaiser-Eoghan
In all my thirty one years I have never been drunk and never intend to, I dislike the idea of surrendering my mind to alcohol and feeling "altered". If anything you would be safer doing marijuana.

Kaiser-Eoghan
Its really just a day off or an excuse for 13 year olds to get drunk.

Kaiser-Eoghan
He was Welsh aswell and there weren't exactly that much snakes in Ireland to begin with.

Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Its technically St Patricks day now yes. Not that I personally care for it, I got going to the parade out of my system over a decade ago, never liked the oirishness and cliches/commercialisim around it, in the end it just makes it impossible to get around the city, plus the weather is so poor its pointless going out anyway.

SuperMario
I saw some Irish flags around my area. Is it St Patrick day today?

Kaiser-Eoghan
I did listen to some of aico's dub, I don't think any of these people are experienced or professional voice actors.

Kaiser-Eoghan
Anon: B the beginning was too much of an awkward genre mix. I was content to just ignore aico because I'm not a fan of Bones as a studio but you're the second person to say it reminds them of some old ova.

Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: I enjoyed the combination of old and new with devilman, it even being able to eclipse the ovas, aswell as the experimental visual style and transgression, and as you said, the surprising emotional involvement.

Anonymous1889060
So i finish, B the Beginning, Aico, Devilman( What a feel's ride). and I must say that they're far from perfect, but they remaind me of 90, early 2000 anime, that i loved so much and that is a big plus. Today's anime doesnt feel quite the same in my opinion, what are your thoughts.. Now im getting excited to watch SWORD GAI!.

Kaiser-Eoghan
While obvious an anime series, After the rain often feels like a live action film.

Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Actually that does remind me, I never saw Pola X by Carax.

Kaiser-Eoghan
Miike is extremely hit or miss, but I loved how Audition minipulated the viewer with its slower first half before really taking off, most of Ichi the killer is just a perversely funny black comedy to me.

Kaiser-Eoghan
Chang-dong-Lee is refreshingly less melodramatic then other Korean directors.

Kaiser-Eoghan
Benh Zeitlin is one I'm not familiar with, but it turns out he did beasts of southern wild and I enjoy magical realism.

Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I wasn't aware Carax was still alive, some sgements of holy motors work, others don't , lovers on the bridge was a more accessible film I recall.

SuperMario
@Fluca: okay. Kinda fixed it. I don't think we have a spoiler code so I just changed your spoiler into white color

Kaiser-Eoghan
Every time I here the title Aico, it makes me think its some kind of eco/environmental thing, which I know it isn't.

Kaiser-Eoghan
The fate/extra Alice character (I looked her up) looks like she belongs in rozen maiden.

Kaiser-Eoghan
The modern Japanese directors can be prolific Miike and Sono pump out more than one film a year.

Kaiser-Eoghan
And it shows, that Our little sister adaptation, that live action adaptations CAN sometimes work.

Kaiser-Eoghan
Quick fact, that action crime josei anime, Bananna fish, coming out in April is based on a manga by the writer of Our little sister's manga.

Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: The interest being, how he would handle something so removed from his usual style.

Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Actually re-checking, its next week, The third murder , which seems very different, a courtroom drama with some philosophy in it.

SuperMario
I really enjoy Our Little Sister, but I think mainly because the film is entirely within my comfort zone (Slice of life manga material, about the life of these girls)

SuperMario
@Kaiser: Which one will you see? He now directs one movie per year so it's hard to keep track some times. I really like his style and I reckon people who like slice-of-life will enjoy his movies

Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Hirokazu Koreeda has a new film out, seeing it on Friday, I've only seen Our little sister by him.

Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: I essentially deleted the rest of the episodes off my computer after struggling through the first, like most, maybe moreso I got very turned off by the genre mixing. Thats not to say that I'm against genre mixes though, but they have to be weird, I mean really weird.

Amagi
I am not a fan of breather episodes, something most modern anime are pretty keen to insert. I hate breaking of climaxes in order to show three SoL-, fanservice- or formularic monster of the week episodes before the main plot progresses further. When I want SoL I go watch a full fleshed SoL. Aico is pretty straight forward and kinda easy to watch in one go in that regard. Nothing really new though.

Amagi
Just finished Aico. Had a few downsides like most series but I enjoyed it. Felt like a classic scifi anime you'd see in the 90s.

AidanAK47
@Anon, I watched it. Though it was mixed but a decent enough watch. It really felt like two shows hastily combined into one. Been thinking of writing a review for it and Aico once I finish Aico.

Kaiser-Eoghan
Nice animation showcase aswell though I don't know how long this will really stay i my memory, though it was nice.

Kaiser-Eoghan
Although it relies on being fairly convenient, linear and simplistic, that Mary witch flower anime movie is at its strongest when visually drawing the viewer into its world and wherever it shows spectacle. I'd say its adequately charming. Fair enough.

KTravlos
Hakata sounds like Gangasta. A series I enjoyed, despite its massive flaws

KTravlos
thanks guys. I will probably give it a try. I am also watching the Castlevania anime finally. Not really worth it for me. Also I watched the first episode of Garo Vanishing Line. I can a say it was fun.

Anonymous1881860
@Anon1880687 - I watched a couple of episodes. Feels like a foreign series. Since it doesn't feel like an anime made in Japan. I did like the group of revengers seem to have more personality than the main leads which insinuate chemistry but doesn't go deep into it. I don't remember if they explain why one of the leads chooses to dress like a girl. Though at least they give him/her a male voice.

SuperMario
@KTravlos: me. Not impressed. First few eps were alright with a set of bold characters, but later the lot just goes around in circle for these characters acting cool and cool rules the day. I dropped it after episode 6

Amagi
@Vonter: It gets more serious later although I agree it's better starting this without any knowledge about the series, like I did. I just loved the tragicomical jokes and the obsessive nostalgia Bojack suffered from and neither needed nor expected any drama but it was pretty good when it happened nonetheless.

AidanAK47
@Anon, Not really. They just wanted to find some justification for the trashy aspects for a show they liked rather than accept it.And while I understand how obnoxious it can be, there are times when people complain about a show doesn't explain itself and then get pissed off when you try to give an explanation.

Kaiser-Eoghan
@Vonter: From what I hear, while it does have comedy, by the second season not only does it improve, but its more of a drama.

Vonter
I've been watching Bojack Horseman. It's good, yet watching certain clips before the actual series made me expect a darker show. I know it's a cartoon, but some jokes reduced the impact of certain events. Though I suppose it's meant to be uplifting and not just mean spirited. It gave me some Nier and Aku no Hana vibes.

KTravlos
We watched the first three episodes of B the Beginning. I must say I enjoyed it. We will see how the rest goes.

Kaiser-Eoghan
For example, doing a rant of a film will only communicate to your intellectual friends and people already in the know, the working class guy you want to inform with your societal/political/religious ideas , was probably watching a western back in the 60s/70s, just incorporate the themes into that while not sacrificing the films appeal

Kaiser-Eoghan
With regards to pretension, I think that comes into play when you have a director trying to communicate ideas but ends up becoming ridiculously, overly polemical, its better to communicate thought provoking ideas through something straight, while also remaining some distance.

Amagi
I think it often happens when authors create things on the fly, at least with manga. You can see terrible forms of comedy/SoL -> drama/scifi switches among webcomics, which are usually done by "amateurs", some of them being pretty young. It's always good when a series hints or blatantly shows what it is during its first episodes/chapters. Not talking about mysteries but genres.

Kaiser-Eoghan
Usually for dramatic comedy to work I feel it needs to let the viewer know early on that the story will feature both....the sudden drama thing generally is a result where a funny film needs an ending and a story needs to be fabricated hastily.

Amagi
Melodrama is like genre mixes. If it does work it can be something special, but it's really hard to write and most directors just lack the talent to do so. It's like a comedy that turns serious at some point. It CAN work, but there aren't many cases where that happens. Usually they're just alienating their comedy fans and the drama fans weren't there to begin with.

Kaiser-Eoghan
If the mekodramatics can properly cast a spell on a viewer, I am open to it if the writers strong enough but in general, when I'm watching something, the best stories are the ones where the atmosphere is so assure I forget I'm watching fiction.

Amagi
I know they just want to make their audience feel good but I think it's a terrible moral or idea. Especially since most people know at least one person they loved that died from such illnesses. No matter what they did or tried to do to overcome it.

Amagi
Yeah exactly. Honestly most cancer movies are terrible I think. I also hate these series in which the main character, I don't know, wins a match for his cancer-ridden love and then s/he recovers.

Amagi
@Kaiser: Not using music can be a great method to illustrate serious moments I think.

Kaiser-Eoghan
I've spoken to my father about this, who recovered from cancer years ago, those kind of phrases irritate him, hr said "Yeah....you don't battle, fight cancer, you fucking suffer through it, then if your lucky you get through it"

Amagi
I mean, again, I loved Madoka but I see how this method they used is kinda cheap. It's still better than many other series of that type. I am aready looking forward to see how terrible Magical Girl Site is, the trailer looks like a psycho face trash fest.

Kaiser-Eoghan
The really annoying thing is when some of these docs and dramas use phrases like "her battle, her FIGHT, her BRAVE fight against cancer.

Amagi
I enjoyed Madoka but I know what you mean. I think I will never rewatch Madoka but I love to see certain Tutu- and Sailor Moon scenes from time to time. I think Madoka is kinda similar to netflix shows or code geass in that regard. It always ends with some evil cliffhanger to hype you up for the next episode and it throws in one shocking revelation after another for the same reason.

Kaiser-Eoghan
@Amagi: On the music thing, some documentaries do this. What I loved about Shoah and night and fog is that the directors showed the landscapes/buildings where it happened and never used music.

Amagi
I mean I know how bad ww2 and other things were. I really don't need rain, sad music and lots of actor tears to realize that. It reminds me of the laughing tracks sitcoms have that tell you when you have to laugh. And newer movies have exaggerated effects as well, not a fan of that. I rather see well thought-out content than a bomb-show. Not to mention that I hate sensory overload.

Kaiser-Eoghan
Its also kind of why I can NEVER look at hentai of something I enjoyed when I was young.

Kaiser-Eoghan
I grew up with Cardcaptor Sakura and Sailormoon and looking into lighthearted mahou shoujo , I don't mind nanoha and tutu, but there was always the feeling madoka was corrupting something.

Kaiser-Eoghan
On dark moe, I've stopped with lol edgy when criticizing Madoka, I realize that its the equivalent to Batman porn to me, the idea of that level of a slant on a genre I went for when I was a kid.

Amagi
I agree. I was interested in Schindler's List when I was ~12 or so because it was something new for me. Nowadays I realize it's not really my thing, there are many western war shows that come of as too "pathetic" to me, they feel too much like, well, Hollywood blockbusters (which is what they actually are) than a serious commetary on war or so.

Kaiser-Eoghan
@Amagi: Thats the trouble I have with Hollywood , a film about Autism like Rain man or a mental illness movie like I am Sam, these American movies never seem real and the depictions feel so hammy and inaccurate.

Kaiser-Eoghan
On the dark moe trope, rather than throwing out words on it, its the tonal inconsistency that gets to me.

Amagi
Yeah the opposite is bad as well. A show can have good intentions, even lots of good ideas but still have a bad execution.

Kaiser-Eoghan
Schindler's list is a great example of this, personally I think popcorn drama/oscar baiting the holocaust is somewhat distasteful and the film comes off as comparitively ingenuinely when I've seen a couple of eastern war films by people who actually lived during the war.

Amagi
And "egdy" is very much about the tone a series has and not so much the actual content. Therefore it has to be explained as well, a dark series, even one with lots of blood, isn't necessarily edgy, it depends on the stance the autor has, whom we're supposed to root for and why, how characters and scenes are depicted and the overall tone, moral and so on.

Kaiser-Eoghan
On another note, to go back to "critic proof", this is a terrible practice because it allows people to take an easy topic for a story and it become forbidden to give a bad review.

Amagi
Yeah, "badly written" for example doesn't mean anything unless you're gonna illustrate how it is badly written by showing and analyzing examples from the show and explain why the writing for these scenes is weak

Kaiser-Eoghan
Thats why I like here, people actually talk about a show in some detail, even the reviewers.

Kaiser-Eoghan
An non-backed up opinion when I'm looking for a show to follow doesn't tell me anything, how am I meant to know to watch something based on a single word or sentence?

Kaiser-Eoghan
I suppose its less of a case of buzzwords and more how people don't explain anything . The reason I say I have to do a 300 word review or long opinion on something is because I feel buzzwords and one word/one sentence opinions are un-helpful.

Kaiser-Eoghan
@Amagi: And I think thats certainly an issue, the lines being bkurred between shitposting/trolling and genuine critique .

Amagi
I mean there are a lot of badly written shows out there or shows that are too tryhard, but people often use these phrases as buzzwords for everything and don't state reasons for using these terms for a specific show. I see tons of "egdy" posts as soon as a series is a bit darker than the usual harem and it's hard to distinguish these pieces from actual shitposts or trolls.

Amagi
It sounds better to say that I don't like something because it's too egdy, too stupid and pure pandering (when it's about moe) or "badly written" than saying that I can't relate to certain settings, characters and so one or that I've seen a certain idea too often.

Amagi
@Kaiser: I think many people just don't want to admit that disliking a series is usually a subjective thing. They rather want to credit their own intelligence for not liking it.

Kaiser-Eoghan
Tetsuo , bubblegum crisis, cyber city oedo are other good ones as was goku midnight eye.

Kaiser-Eoghan
@Vonter: It was the rebellion bit that got me worried if they were planning some sort of follow up.

Kaiser-Eoghan
I, robot eh? I remember that one, I don't mind Will Smith but he's not convincing in a serious role.

Vonter
The replicants preparing for war, took me out of the movie, since it was delivered like a footnote for your action blockbuster, kinda like how they ripped apart I, Robot.

Vonter
Still I got reminded why it inspired manga and anime like Akira, Cowboy Bebop and many others. There's a lot of atmosphere, and like I said, the visual storytelling is very strong. Since there were a lot of double meanings to several shots early in in the film. The egomaniac Jesus wannabe villain felt very odd, especially his speechifying.

Kaiser-Eoghan
But I'll have to see it again with that extended cut when I'm less the victim of hype.

Kaiser-Eoghan
Theres a certain idea of....they made an OKAY blade runner sequel, it wasn't allowed to be bad or great.

Kaiser-Eoghan
@Vonter: Its a case really of, you had a four star film! Then turned it into a three star!

Kaiser-Eoghan
Then again I am interested when Denis will be going back to his arthouse films instead.

Star Crossed Anime Blog

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