Reactions To And Effects Of The Yonder Alonso Trade

The late-night Friday move that sent 1B/DH Yonder Alonso to Chicago’s south side was a deal typically reserved for transaction marginalia. Because of the headliner’s relationship with star free-agent SS/3B Manny Machado, though (the two are brothers-in-law), and Cleveland’s offseason status as a veritable repository for top-end available arms, the trade has implications that range further than most of its ilk.

Here’s the latest from the Upper Midwest …

Per WSCR-AM’s Bruce Levine, Machado will meet with the White Sox next week. Whether or not the opportunity to play with Alonso will hold sway is unknown, but GM Rick Hahn made serious effort, in a post-trade assembly with reporters, to redirect swirling conjecture back to Alonso: “Fundamentally this is a baseball deal,” Hahn said. “We like how Yonder fits in between the lines and in the clubhouse and helps further what we’re trying to accomplish in 2019 and beyond. The potential ancillary benefits to it in terms of his relationships with others really can’t be part of pulling the trigger in making the decision to acquire a big league player…” It should be noted, too, that purported White Sox target Yasmani Grandal, Havana-born and Miami-bred like Alonso, played with the 1B/DH at the University of Miami, in the Cincinnati Red farm system, and with the San Diego Padres from 2012-’14.

Per MLB.com’s Anthony Castrovince and Mandy Bell, the “key to the deal,” from Cleveland’s perspective, was the ability to clear the entirety of Alonso’s $9MM salary for ’18 (he also has a $9MM, 2020 option that vests if he accrues 526 plate appearances in ’19) off the books. Speculatively, though Alonso’s mostly-league-average bat, over the course of his career, likely wasn’t sought-after on the trade market, Cleveland may have seen a slight bump in the return quality if it was willing to eat most of the remaining cash on Alonso’s deal.

With the aforementioned savings in the White Sox deal, plus the approximately $9MM slashed in the Carlos Santana/Edwin Encarnacion swap, the Indians appear to have drastically increased their 2019 payroll space. Fancred’s Jon Heyman relays the good news for Tribe fans, tweeting that both Corey Kluber and Trevor Bauer are now “more likely to stay.” The Indians could, though, look to aggressively upgrade a barren-looking outfield by using the newfound space and dealing one of the two aces, though enthusiasm behind the latter strategy has seemed diffident from the start.

If one of those was included in your offer then that’s one thing. But you apparently forgot that guy and instead tacked on the massively overpaid 1B/DH who can’t stay healthy while playing the outfield

Tribe take on Myers remaining salary. Offset it with Kipnis @$17m and add another $12m salary. Myers 4 years remaining are now reasonable – Padres get Kipnis off the books in a year.

San Diego is a pitchers park. Put Myers in Progressive Field and he hits at least .270 with 30 HR’s. Can replace Brantly in LF. Santana replaces Brantley hitting 2nd; .Myers replaces EE hitting 4th. All at reasonable bucks.

Wil Myers is controled for 4 seasons, Reyes is not (he’s controlled for 5(+?)

So that means Myers was the “solid RH run producing OF bat for 4 years at a reasonable salary” in your statement, despite that description not fitting him at all

EDIT to say – much like your first post, you have now edited out everything you said in the one I was replying to, making my post seem off topic.
My reply is to what your post used to say – back when you were trying to imply I had the players backwards from your post

I honestly don’t think most (or any) team would take Myers right now for anything. He has proven he isn’t worth the contract he got. He’s not a legit trade chip unless you’re trying to dump money and throwing in good value guys with him.

If you look at the contracts and the money I proposed going back to the Indians, the salary for Myers 4 years is an AAV of around $10m.

Wil Myers put up decent numbers playing at Petco, with it’s huge OF and marine layer from the ocean knocking down fly balls. The Indians just paid an old Edwin Encarnacion $20m a year to put up similar park adjusted numbers as the soon to be 28 year-old Myers.

Have you ever been to Petco? It’s cavernous. Compared to it Progressive Field with its dimentions and jet streams ** carrying the ball out** is like an AA park.

** Ask John Hart or others that were around when the park was built. Home plate was put in its location specifically to take advantage of the jet streams. It’s why Hart built a team of hitters – Lofton, Visquel, Baerga, Manny, Belle, Alomar, etc. when they moved into the park.

Stunning to me how today teams like the Phillies and Padres go through long rebuilds, yet fail to build a team of young players to take advantage of the park.

I’d pretty much argue that PetCo is not the pitchers park it used to be. It plays pretty fair now and has done so since they moved the fences in. So Meyers sudden explosion is simply overstated. The trade fails in the fact that it’s SD centric. Myers has negative trade value and is expensive. His positional aptitude is somewhat negated, because he’s not an elite hitter so you’re basically overpaying in a market that has devalued 1Bs/LF. And then you take in the injuries. Kluber is going to command a significant package and that package is easily beatable.

Kipnis is off in a year and it doesn’t compute taking a gamble on Myers which would essentially shorten their window yet again. They made a mistake in overpaying for EE and Alonso. Now you’re asking them to do the same for Meyers, which I’d ask why? Especially when he’s going to start getting expensive when they need money the most. Does he really provide a middle of the order bat that a contending team salivates over? You can’t make that argument. Reyes is a similar miscast OF. You can’t throw scraps and add in lotto tickets and hope to acquire Kluber. It’s just another overvaluing of Reyes and Myers.

The AAV portion of the argument is meaningless as the Indians will never go anywhere close to it for it even matter. Indians shedding 17M and retaining a package to fit is greater than adding Kipnis just to dump.

Petco is not as cavernous as you say it is. It’s been middle of the pack for years now. The team has struggled for years because the previous regime did try to get players that would fit the park. Moorad didn’t have money and Jerry Reinsdorf led a campaign to deny his bid for ownership of the team. That set the team back two years. They traded Rizzo and kept Alonso who had a line drive approach because Alonso was more of a ‘Petco’ player.

Samuel, I can read. I am a retired teacher. I understood your opinion. I just don’t agree that Myers at 10 million a year is worth it. Even if Myers was worth it, which he is not, the offer was not good enough for Bauer in my opinion.

I’m thrilled that the Indians were able to get all of that money off the books; I’m actually surprised that a team was willing to pay down the $9 Alonso will be owed.

The salary relief alone would have been good enough for me, but no one is really mentioning Alex Call enough, either. He’ll probably end up as a 4th/5th outfielder at most, but he’s at least another depth option with a smidge of upside, and the Indians have had success with these types of acquisitions in the past.

I definitely assumed that the Indians would have to throw in another minor leaguer or something to get a team to pay Yonder $9 million. But some team did it, and gave them a player. Wild world we live in.

Every team in baseball has a deep enough farm to get a 32 year old 1B/DH coming off a season with <2 WAR and owed 1/$16 million this year. For some comparison Edwin Encarncion is a similar player coming off of a similar season and we just saw how much he was worth. CJ Cron is 4 years younger and coming off of a better season and the Rays DFA’d him before he signed a 1/$4.8 million contract.

Jose Abreu is going nowhere unless the White Sox are blown away with an offer. You, like most other arm chair GM’s are trying to rationalize his value purely with analytics, a thing that ticks me off me in general anyway.

Whatever you might think his value is to your favorite team, it is not that to the White Sox which is all that matters to their front office. Most teams won’t be willing to pay for the intangible value he provides to the White Sox which makes any deal highly unlikely. Because of this, the chances are much better that Abreu is extended this offseason rather than traded. This is being reported by most pundits and it’s not just their opinion. The White Sox have intimated as much throughout the process and Rick Hahn’s own words, including as recently as this morning in the aftermath of the Yonder Alonso trade, once again suggested the same.

Always liked Yonder Alonso as a padre he sacrificed power for average at Petco park. We tried him out a few games at 3rd base and he was using one of Machados gloves. Alonso also got us Pomeranz which was flipped for Anderson Espinoza. Good luck in Chicago

Seems to me that the Sox are going all-in on Manny. I think Manny will go to whoever will give him the biggest contract and it appears as if that will be the White Sox.
Once Machado signs then Harper is then next domino likely choosing between Los Angelos and Philadelphia. My money would be on Philly taking him as they desperately need a superstar in their lineup.

As Machado is in the driver’s seat right now, CWS are not in a position to ignore his wish to play SS. So if CWS do sign Manny, what’s to become of Tim Anderson?
He could be moved to 3B, or to 2B (with Moncada moving to 3B), or to OF. He’s a good enuf athlete to adapt, adopt and improve.
He also has a team-friendly contract which enhances his trade value. I’d sure hate to see him go, but he would bring a heckova return.

If the White Sox are fortunate to land Manny Machado and part of that was due to a promise of playing SS in 2019 then Tim Anderson will most likely be moved to CF which is the White Sox current biggest positional weakness anyway. With Machado at SS, potentially for a while since he won’t turn 27 until July, it probably behooves the organization to stick with their long term vision of Nick Madrigal becoming their core player at 2B where he profiles best defensively, potentially as a Gold Glove candidate.

Madrigal is on a fast track with his MLB debut because of his all around baseball skills and advanced hitting. That debut could come as soon as 2020. If that’s the case, it makes the most sense to have every other perceived core player in their likely position by that same time. What purpose would it serve to have multiple players moving to different positions for the next couple of seasons?

With that in mind, current White Sox second baseman Yoan Moncada would shift to 3B in 2019. It is not a foreign position to him. He made his MLB debut there with the Red Sox back in 2016 because of a team need and despite limited reps at the hot corner in the minors. He is a 5-tool player which means elite athleticism, similar to Anderson who ought to make a pretty seamless move to CF. In the mean time, the White Sox do have a solid defensive second baseman in Yolmer Sanchez who played 3B in 2018 to accommodate Moncada at 2B. This was before the organization drafted Madrigal last June. Sanchez can now return to his best defensive position and keep it warm for Madrigal until 2020.

Additionally, the White Sox do have other top prospects pegged for their MLB debut soon including CF Luis Robert who potentially could see Guaranteed Rate Field in 2020 as well. It’s a near lock that Eloy Jimenez will be the White Sox LF starting this coming April. The multi-million dollar question is who plays RF? If it’s not Bryce Harper it will likely be some other acquisition this offseason. Depending on Anderson’s play in CF, it could be Robert in 2020.

With all this talent on board, it’s also conceivable that a young player like Anderson or Moncada could become a highly valuable trade chip to address some other need in the next year or two, perhaps an upgrade at catcher. It’s a nice problem to have and Rick Hahn is smart enough to figure it all out.

Not a Cleveland fan, but the trade proposal above was extremely absurd so I had to give my opinion on it. Also doubt the Indians trade one of their starters to an AL team, considering they still want to compete this year.

I think the package to get Kluber would have been ugly BEFORE the Indians lost motivation to trade him. They wanted to clear pay roll some and they did that so why do you think that trade makes since? Because it makes since for the Dodgers?

Agreed. It going to take a lot. But still after all of these moves, we still do not have an outfield. puig fills a gap in right, Verdugo, can play any of the three and he can flat out hit. Given, they don’t bring him up until June, we have him for six years. Even if we send Kluber to the NL, our staff still ranks up there with the best in a seven game series. If you add those two and then others from the LA farm system, your window has been extended several years longer than keeping him on the rotation.

Any trade for a TOR starter will include a number 1 or 2 ranked prospect and multiple top 100 prospects. What the Mets got for Diaz and then some. Kipnis has a position now, they aren’t taking less than top value for an arm

No way Billy. Hicks only has 1 year so he is not interesting. Montgomery and Adams also move the needle very little. With the trades already by the Indians they have even less of a need to trade a pitcher unless they are blown away in a deal. That offer above just blows.

The Indians had 2018’s 16th end season payroll @ $142MM and the 21st place attendance @ 1.9 million. Their game average attendance was 24,083 which comes to only 55.4% capacity. Those 2 figures tell why, in part, they are looking to lower payroll. We know a % of that 1.9 million in attendance were unused tickets, so they received no ancillary revenues via in game concessions and merchandise. for that %. This is a team that has to be frugal and cut corners when they can. Their payroll for 2019 sits at @ $112MM and the next season it drops to @ $48MM, at this time.

All 5 ALC teams sit in the bottom third for attendance, so it’s hard to see why any of those teams would want to raise payroll for 2019.

This seems to be some good shuffling on the part of the Indians to get some breathing room on payroll.. With that flexibility, I wonder if Bauer is now the likelier of the two to be traded and if they’ll stop trying to attach Kip’s contract (which I’m sure was killing their player return).

Padres 2019ha – Let me get this straight. You want Bauer and a top 100 prospect for 5 pieces none of them are a top 100 prospect. Reyes and Stammen have some interest, but you need to do a lot better than a run of the mill pitcher and two prospects rated outside the top 100. Call Uber for a ride home from the bar.

Btw-If they lose out on Harper would anybody be shocked if Yasiel was acquired to play RF? He is being shopped by LA and the White Sox were hot after him previously. Can’t have too many Cubans on the Southside either!

Anyone who feels that Alonso going to the White Sox means it is a foregone conclusion Machado is going there is delusional. The bottom line is if the White Sox make the highest offer Machado will go there. If Chicago is not the highest better he will not. Players do not leave money on the table especially if it meant taking less money to go to an awful team.

The White Sox won’t be an awful team in 2019. They should also improve significantly in 2020, perhaps enough to be a legit contender in Machado’s second season of a long term contract. That being said, you are spot on about the money. They may have a slight advantage with all of his pals on board and maybe even with their long term outlook but that would only hold sway with a White Sox contract offer that’s in the same ballpark with the other bidders.

Abreu at $16M in arbitration? Dang, arbitration can really hurt some teams payrolls. Not the White Sox, mind you, but small market teams like Cleveland have to avoid figures like that.
Wonder if the league and players union will ever revisit this part in the future?

Arbitration beat down small and mid market teams. The cost of living in large markets is higher, meaning players need more to stay there half a year. No problem, as large market team bring in far more with higher ticket prices and higher cash flow from local radio and TV. But the idea that Pittsburgh, Miami and San Diego have to pay a like salary to a similar producing player as those paid in New York, San Francisco and Boston puts the smaller markets at a huge disadvantage.

Add that every year at least one desperate owner shows up willing to overpay players in free agency. Piggybacking on arbitration, agents then demand that salaries for all like players go up as well. With maybe a dozen exceptions each year, they get it.

Charlie Finley exploded when the owners voted for arbitration. Asked how he could survive if he paid players in Oakland what the Yankees paid their players. In protest Charlie traded 4-5 of his stars. Commissioner Bowie Kuhn vetoed the trades. Charlie sold the A’s.

Charlie was proved right decades ago.

Arbitration radically changed MLB. Since salary is determined by statistics, that what agents tell their clients to play for. Managers are not listened to unless they’re talking stats. While players would like to win, almost all play for their stats.

I watch highly publicized players on MLB.TV – at least half of whom are awful. In person they look even worse. Retired players I’ve spoken to can’t believe what those guys get away with.

But times change, and there’s no going back. Most fans today don’t play, watch, or listen to baseball. They look at highlights and stats to see how their fantasy league team – and soon betting – are doing. That’s the market. That brings in the record revenue.

What Samuel said makes perfect sense. Don’t like it then don’t read it!

I don’t care about parity, I don’t care about the BS luxury tax, MLB should have a hard cap like every other league. They should also permit trading draft picks like every other league. Small market teams have to build up and try and catch a break in a small window of opportunity and win a title before it all falls apart (see KC). One bad contract can cripple that teams for years. The big boys can eat contracts and get out of bad contracts overnight and not miss a beat (Sox and Adrian G). Small market teams like Cleveland has to shed salaries to try and extend their window.

If nothing else the White Sox are creating a lot of “buzz” this offseason with Rick Hahn also giving Jerry Dipoto a run for (from?) his money this winter as the winner of the annual GOO (GM of the Offseason) Award. Hahn is no stranger to this honor, having won the buyers bracket during the 2014/2015 offseason and the sellers bracket in the winter of 2016/2017. It’s still to be determined exactly which bracket Dipoto will be eligible for this offseason. Stay tuned!

It would be nice if RH can finally win his first GOY (GM of the Year) Award. Funny too, since he is Jewish! We had a big celebration and laugh back in 2008 when Theo Epstein won the honor with the Red Sox.

But don’t for a second think this gives the Sox some crazy edge in the Machado sweepstakes, y’all. I mean, sure, it can’t hurt that this bro in law is there now — but dude ain’t passing up better offers just because if it.

You are correct about the contract length and the minor impact. But for the record, Machado is extremely tight with his brother-in-law as well as with White Sox catcher Wellington Castillo who the White Sox can control for two more seasons if they pick up his 2020 team option.

It should be noted as well that Yonder Alonso is good friends with new fellow Cuban teammate 1B/DH Jose Abreu. Rick Hahn mentioned this earlier today in interviews in the aftermath of the trade. There will absolutely be no animosity involved with those two amigos who share positions and very likely no trade of Abreu. Abreu will be a starter each game at 1B or DH while Alonso will get reps at one of those positions whenever a righty starts which means more often than not.

White Sox & Yankees not going to shoot the Moon for either Harper or Machado. So now we can put to bed all the brother in law rhetoric. Sox won(t overpay they get neither. Colome was dominant in Tampa loved that trade but the subsequent acquisitions are headscratchers. Add or trade for impact players Rick.