500 words a day on whatever I want

Tamir Rice

Tamir Rice (2002-2014), a 12-year-old American elementary school student, was gunned down on November 22nd 2014 by police in Cleveland, Ohio. He was at a playground on a Saturday afternoon playing with a toy gun. He was Black, the killer cop was White.

The phone call to police said that a Black person, “probably juvenile”, was pointing a gun at people. The gun was “probably fake”.

The police said they saw Rice sitting with others. They saw him put the gun in his waistband. They got out of the car and told him, three times, to put his hands up. He reached into his waistband and pulled out the gun. They shot him dead. They said Rice was maybe 20 years old. (Most Whites think Black teenaged boys are at least four years older than they are.)

The security camera showed a boy playing alone in the snow and repeatedly drawing a gun and aiming it, but not at anyone, like he was playing. When the police arrived he does not have the gun out. The police car comes up onto the grass and before it even stops, the police shoot him down. That quick.

White empathy: They shot him in the chest and stomach and then left him there to die in pain. Four minutes later an FBI agent shows up and tries to save his life. (Most Whites lack empathy for Blacks, as if they were not even human. Police who see Blacks that way are more likely to use force.)

Tamir Rice died at the hospital the following morning.

Demonization: During the week that followed, Thanksgiving week, the Cleveland press put stories online about his mother’s and father’s police record.

Rice’s gun was an airgun, the kind boys play with. They look like a real gun but have an orange marker. The marker often falls off. Rice’s airgun did not have one.

Ohio law allows people to openly carry guns in public.

Ohio is the same state where John Crawford was gunned down in August after he picked up an airgun at Walmart. His gun still had its orange marker. Not that it made a difference: the police still rushed him and gunned him down even though he was not pointing the gun at anyone. The grand jury saw no probable crime.

@jefe…No it won’t. You are so-o-o-o right, Brother. If we are honest — they don’t give a damn. But even if you give them the benefit of the doubt, who controls the body camera (like history) gets to tell the tale. I can just hear it now, “My arm got in the way; I accidentally shut it off in the struggle; this damned thing gets in the way! — blah, blah, blah, blah.

We’ve got to focus our energies on the pathology of it all — but we won’t, mainly because, IMHO, we’ve been inculcated into white supremacy to such a degree, we rarely, if ever, critically think. {smdh}

^ hell no it won’t, the camera will either be off when they kill someone or the footage goes missing or it “malfunctions” moments before they shoot someone. And if it shows them shooting someone all it will offer is another point of view so then we will see first person point of view of them killing someone and then ppl will still try to justify it.

” During the week that followed, Thanksgiving week, the Cleveland press put stories online about his mother’s and father’s police record.”

That is some bs, oh the kid doesn’t have a record let’s look at his parents that way we can come up with an excuse as to why he didn’t deserve to live and try to show that he would’ve repeated the cycle.

Black kids are not allowed to be kids, from an early age we have to be aware. “don’t touch anything in the store unless u are going to buy so they won’t think u are stealing” “don’t play with toy guns and keep ur hands visible” ” don’t do what ur white friends do because u will not be afforded the same consequences as them” these are the things black parents teach their kids. We live in a country that victim blames, where ur murder, assault, or rape can become all ur fault based on what u wear, the color of ur skin and people’s assumptions about u.

U got white ppl shooting up places and killing people with real guns being taken in alive, while black folks with fake ones are being killed on sight.

@ Glenn.. While the video may have helped convict him, he was only sentenced to two years, minus time served. He served his time occupying a private cell away from other prisoners. He was sentenced to two years with double credit for time already served, reducing his term by 292 days for the 146 days he has already spent in jail. Released on May 3, 2011, he’s now on parole. Just punishment for a state-sanctioned murderer. I guess we should be happy about that.

For every killing that a video may be entered as evidence to support a conviction, there will be 10 where it doesn’t make a bit of difference.

Equipping police with cameras will hardly make a dent in solving the problem. Maybe we have to revamp how cops get indicted and how the police operate in general. Maybe we need a federal agency that needs to police police departments and make sure that the conscious killing of unarmed civilians will not go unpunished. They will also keep metrics of police departments with high rates of police brutality, even removing the police chief and dismantling the force of districts found to be egregiously brutal.

Young black men and young boys being gunned down by racist thugs in blue because someone calls with the wrong information. Only to find out the supposed weapon is a toy gun. And when the so called perpetrator is a child they always say it was an adult. Our black children never get to be kids. I supposed the murderers of young Tamir Rice will walk free as well. R.I.P. Tamir.

(This is buddhuu. I’m having to comment using my FB login. WordPress isn’t recognising my other email address at the moment for some reason.)

That CCTV footage is beyond belief. No hesitation; no thought given to any assessment of the situation; no consideration given to any solution but the discharge of a gun.

A race war? Mary, when one reads the ever-growing list of names of the murdered, the accounts of KKK, militia and vigilantes descending on Ferguson and the comments on social media… well, it is very hard to argue against a claim that a substantial number of white people want exactly that.

This is insane. I seriously can’t grasp how even a confirmed racist can not care about the killing of a 12 year-old child.

The UK is also a depressingly, disgustingly racist place – but when TV charity appeals on behalf of people in Africa and Asia showed black and brown children and babies in the most awful circumstances, a lot of people always seemed to forget how much they disliked the black guy next door, or the Bangladeshi woman in the next street. When it was kids at risk, that always seemed to override the general bigot stupidity to some extent.

If we’ve reached the point where not even that can mitigate callous disregard for lives then we’re all screwed.

Bud Dhuu
but when TV charity appeals on behalf of people in Africa and Asia showed black and brown children and babies in the most awful circumstances, a lot of people always seemed to forget how much they disliked the black guy next door, or the Bangladeshi woman in the next street.
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But that makes perfect sense if you understand white supremacy as a POWER DYNAMIC rooted in FUNCTION.

It may seem counterintuitive because of white complaints about black mediocrity and disfunction; but racists actually prefer their victims have less ability and will often fund and support nonwhite idleness, passivity and spectatorship.

Police have been doing this stuff as long as I can remember. It probably goes all the way back to the slave patrols. The difference now is Black Twitter. Just like there was an Arab Spring, this is the Black Spring.

since one of my complaints about black people is our preference to b*tch and moan about problems instead of making constructive suggestions…

Im going to submit a constructive suggestion of my own for consideration.

Problem: Young black males being “accidentally” killed by the police.

Suggestion: Black children should be confined to their parents house UNLESS they can describe (even in writing) a clear constructive PURPOSE for leaving the house.

Reason/explanation: Without purpose, choice often leads to confusion, and confusion often leads to a “bad” choice. When a person is forced to describe what they intend to do before they do it, they can compare their choice to their PURPOSE and determine if they correspond to each other.

Vague purposes like “have fun” or “hang out” should be rejected in favor of clearer, more linear responses that prove both the choice and the purpose are constructive.

All the thug pictures are of young black men, including children and pre-teens and some older ones up to senior citizens. Non-thug photos are of white people and include women. For all others, it depends how they are dressed.

Bullet points:
* Thugs are dangerous and life-threatening. They have claws and teeth.
* They carry weapons that can metamorphose into other objects, such as cell phones and eyeglasses; sometimes they can even become invisible
* Toy weapons are lethal in the hands of thugs
* If you carry a weapon, use it. If you do not, you can still approach and try to kill the thug if you have people helping you
* You will not be charged or indicted with anything if you kill a thug. You are doing a service to society.
* There are awards and prizes to those who apprehend thugs, esp. in difficult circumstances.
* Do not try to talk to a thug or engage in any meaningful conversation. Treat them like a rabid junkyard dog. Your life depends on it.

I wonder how many Black, Latino, Asian and Native Nations police officers have used brute, deadly force on unarmed civilians? Where is that data base? Has there been any news coverage of such events? My reasoning here is to prove gut feeling that this is a scared ,trigger happy white officer syndrome buoyed nationwide by the wide spread collective white supremacy psychosis….and brown people phobia…Call it what it is and see it for what it is white people! Then we can reasonably deal with it.

Abagond and Mary Burrell are both right IMO. There is a race war and it has been happening for what seems like forever. Since we are all born into this state of affairs it became part of the scenery like the ocean, sky, or sun that we know from cradle to grave. As a result we don’t sense that we live in state of war because our baseline for what’s normal is a state of heightened alert due to our essentially hostile circumstance.

Combatants don’t have to be shooting at each other incessantly for there to be a prevailing state of war. Siege, though more passive, is also an act of war. The use of racism to restrict certain groups’ access to resources, money, housing, justice etc. is tantamount to besiegement. Metaphorically, it’s death by chokehold instead of a shot to the head. It’s Garner’s murder vs Brown’s.

The choker put himself in unecessarily close contact with those he hated and intended to harm. He ’embraced’ them with Racism, Slavery, Jim Crow, Apartheid, Reservations, Colonialism, IMF debt-slavery and so on. They can’t breathe, can’t breathe. “Stop resisting!” The behavior is scale invariant. It seems that those assaulted have been trying to rehabilitate the serial choker by appealing to his conscience but progress has been limited. Perhaps they’ll remember to supplement that with other means of keeping their necks out of harms way. Not lying down may be a start as well as traveling in groups.

Yea, right! The Luciferians have been successful in dismantling the structure of black family. They even are working hard to crash the virtual family father, called Bill Cosby. Oprah will be next…all role models one by one.

I get what is being said that a race war has been going on for a long time. Still, there seems to have been a ratcheting up of intensity lately; with militarized police conveniently ensconced throughout the nation. As if waiting for a chance to unleash it upon black communities. Don’t forget that this covert agent predicted racial conflagration after some expected police atrocity.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUfcNSTgk3I#t=102)

The Cleveland Police Department was aware of Tim Loehmans previous poor job performance and still employed him. And this poor kid is probably dead because he didn’t have good skills in making judgement calls.

Honestly a big part of the problem is that cops have been lying about this stuff for DECADES (maybe centuries) They’ve been hiding their murders under the color of authority with, “Oh, he reached for his waistband” or “I mistook his bottle (or bag of skittles) for a gun.” And the general public has been believing it, because it’s easier than believing the truth.

“Honestly a big part of the problem is that cops have been lying about this stuff for DECADES (maybe centuries) They’ve been hiding their murders under the color of authority with, “Oh, he reached for his waistband” or “I mistook his bottle (or bag of skittles) for a gun.” ”

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The real absurdity is allowing these renegades to investigate themselves. Adding insult to injury is not insisting that a federal Special Prosecutor bring this sort of case before a Grand Jury for indictment.

They’ve been at war with us, systemically killing us off emotionally, spiritually and physically, one way or another, by any means necessary since the day they brought us here as captives – in chains!

THAT’S WHAT WE NEED TO SEE! And if we keep going about it the same way we have have been fighting this WAR for the last 500 years, we’re gonna lose.

If we love ourselves (Black people!) and each other, we can beat them!

The issue is here might also be one of police tactics. Tactic designed to drive contact with citizens and persons of interest toward one inevitable end. Control is put ahead of communication and assessment. That, you know, is the antithesis of the streetwise cop. I remember in Chicago when I was growing up, the police, uniformed and plainclothes, had to deal with some pretty rough customers, many black, many white. They took people into custody at home and on the street and served search warrants by knocking on doors.

Columnist Eugene Robinson noted that in real areas, it tends to be the mentally ill who become the victims of poorly designed police tactics. I knew personally of two instances occurring in Central California when I lived there, and more in the Puget Sound area where I now live.

Have people changed? Maybe. But change is not always autonomous. People are provided with role and behavioral models and cultural templates promoted for the sale of corporate profit or as a result of the ideological schemes of radical political players. Or both. Count the people and the cops both as subject to these instigations.

The way we think of event is very much determined by a received agenda promoted by someone else. When I heard of the Ray Rice incident, the issue I thought of is the extent to which postadolescent youth and young adults are running around getting blitzed out their minds on alcohol and drugs any day of the week. Literally millions are out there sleazing around every weekend, and some pay the ultimate price even apart from the many accidents that occur. Think Matthew Shepherd. Think Natalee Holloway. Two white people, that is true. But you could build a Vietnam Wall of victims going back far enough.

Then there are the people who have the course of their lives irrevocably altered due to STDs, pregnancies, traumatic sexual experiences, other emotional and psychological traumas, alcoholism and drug addiction, legal problems, academic, professional and vocational failure. The list goes on forever.

Why do we have to frame the Ray Rice story as a feminist issue anyway? There are other elements. Elements that are more important to more people, men and women, non-white and white. It’s big.

The issue is here might also be one of police tactics. Tactic designed to drive contact with citizens and persons of interest toward one inevitable end. Control is put ahead of communication and assessment. That, you know, is the antithesis of the streetwise cop. I remember in Chicago when I was growing up, the police, uniformed and plainclothes, had to deal with some pretty rough customers, many black, many white. They took people into custody at home and on the street and served search warrants by knocking on doors.

Columnist Eugene Robinson noted that in rural areas, it tends to be the mentally ill who become the victims of poorly designed police tactics. I knew personally of two instances occurring in Central California when I lived there, and more in the Puget Sound area where I now live.

Have people changed? Maybe. But change is not always autonomous. People are provided with role and behavioral models and cultural templates promoted for the sake of corporate profit or as a result of the ideological schemes of radical political players. Or both. Count the people and the cops both as subject to these instigations.

The way we think of events is very much determined by a received agenda promoted by someone else. When I heard of the Ray Rice incident, the issue I thought of is the extent to which postadolescent youth and young adults are running around getting blitzed out their minds on alcohol and drugs any day of the week. Literally millions are out there sleazing around every weekend, and some pay the ultimate price even apart from the many accidents that occur. Think Matthew Shepherd. Think Natalee Holloway. Two white people, that is true. But you could build a Vietnam Wall of victims going back far enough.

Then there are the people who have the course of their lives irrevocably altered due to STDs, pregnancies, traumatic sexual experiences, other emotional and psychological traumas, alcoholism and drug addiction, legal problems, academic, professional and vocational failure. The list goes on forever.

Why do we have to frame the Ray Rice story as a feminist issue anyway? There are other elements. Elements that are more important to more people, men and women, non-white and white. It’s big.

..’Tis such a dam# shame and total disgrace that POC (especially, Black) children aren’t allowed the right of passage b.k.a. childhood-so over the bullshi% in the “United” states, for the sane citizens that have remained I suggest that you get your passports if you haven’t already!!! R.I.P. Tamir Rice…

If we love ourselves (Black people!) and each other, we can beat them!

For once, I would like someone to explain this in concrete, actionable terms. Black folks are good at proclaiming ethereal concepts as the solution for rather concrete problems.

At least thwack attempts to tackle the problem in concrete, actionable terms:

Problem: Young black males being “accidentally” killed by the police.

Suggestion: Black children should be confined to their parents house UNLESS they can describe (even in writing) a clear constructive PURPOSE for leaving the house.

However, that’s misguided. Making black children prisoners in their own homes takes those children out of the “line of fire,” but their seeing how white children are free to gallivant around unencumbered will breed a unique form of resentment. If you’re willing to use that resentment as a fuel to spark some sort of long-lasting separatist movement, then by all means.

Speaking of separatism, having black America slowly but surely disengage from interacting with the white collective will be a far more constructive answer to our current issues. It’s better to carve out areas were black children can walk freely unharmed rather than keep them locked up while living in white-dominated spaces. If that means having to exit the country, then so be it. Unfortunately, I know a lot of people might see that as a defeat of sorts.

The kid must have been retarded to do this at 12 years old. Consider how sophistacted most 12 year olds are today. If the police are going to give young black people 12-16 years old (someone above says that black teens look four years older to “white” eyes) the benefit of the doubt for playing with guns what is the collaterol damage going to be where those people come out blasting?

I believe that people are making unreasonable demands on the police on the assumption that they themselves are safe from blowback. They assume their neighbourhoods won’t experience crime when police are afraid to challenge likely black criminals. I hope they live in interesting times.

“For once, I would like someone to explain this in concrete, actionable terms. Black folks are good at proclaiming ethereal concepts as the solution for rather concrete problems.”

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To LOVE oneself, to love each other….
means to RESPECT, TRUST, SELF-SACRIFICE, TEACH, COMMUNE, TELL THE TRUTH, REVOLUTIONIZE, PUTTING OUR CHILDREN FIRST AND FOREMOST and much more.

Do you still require more explanation? Perhaps someone else here will describe in greater detail the concept/idea I’m mentioning here? Maybe Origin, or Sharina, or Trojan Pam, or Kwamla, or King, or Deb, or whomever.

There is just no ONE way to beat this thing. The solution (our survival) will be, has to be, a multi-prong attack motivated and carried through by BLACK LOVE, BLACK-SELF INTEREST!

Either we will LOVE/RESPECT ourselves/our own or we will not survive. No one else can do this for us, but us. It must begin with our thinking and carried over into our broad collective actions.

If someone accidentally killed my child I might do something terrible at that moment. People around me would recognize this as a psychopathology. It wouldn’t change the fact that the indent was an accident. We will be in a terrible state if we make it impossible for the police to protect us from armed black people.

@Just Me…I am more than happy to “respond” to your “call,” though I REALLY don’t think you need it. You’ve already succinctly spoken my soul’s deepest desire for us — so let me just reiterate:

“To LOVE oneself, to love each other….means to RESPECT, TRUST, SELF-SACRIFICE, TEACH, COMMUNE, TELL THE TRUTH, REVOLUTIONIZE, PUTTING OUR CHILDREN FIRST AND FOREMOST… There is just no ONE way to beat this thing. The solution (our survival) will be, has to be, a multi-prong attack motivated and carried through by BLACK LOVE, BLACK-SELF INTEREST!

Either we will LOVE/RESPECT ourselves/our own or we will not survive. No one else can do this for us, but us. It must begin with our thinking and carried over into our broad collective actions.”

It has nothing to do with whom we love, or sleep ( UNLESS, of course, we don’t love ourselves). IMHO, THAT, understandably (given our history, not only in this country, but in this world!), is our most major stumbling block.

I’m a Black woman in America — nothing can, or will change that. My sons look like me — nothing can, or will change that. I LOVE my people — nothing can, or will change that.

As I continue working to rid my mind of its inculcated, colonized beginnings, my heart and soul both tell me, in their now, enlightened state (long as I’m breathin’, I’m learnin’!), “Meet your people where you find them” and DO all those things you so emphatically expressed above — because, as you said, “our survival” depends on it. “Links and Legacy” are as important to us, as it is to them.

We will be in a terrible state if we make it impossible for the police to protect us from armed black people.

Yep, esp. those brandishing phantom or toy weapons.

White people with real weapons – they are not a major problem, I see. At least they appear not to require preemptive measures unlike blacks with toy weapons or with cellphones or eyeglasses that might metamorphose into real weapons.

However, that’s misguided. Making black children prisoners in their own homes takes those children out of the “line of fire,” but their seeing how white children are free to gallivant around unencumbered will breed a unique form of resentment.
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Mack, HOW is requiring your child to “describe (even in writing) a clear constructive PURPOSE for leaving the house.” making them a prisoner in their own home?

They can go out, they just need to “describe (even in writing) a clear constructive PURPOSE for doing so.

How is that punitive?

I had to perform a version of it growing up. I turned “asking permission” into an art form; WHEN to ask, HOW to ask, WHICH parent to ask… they say lawyers shouldn’t represent themselves in court, but I did.

Upon that subject of proclaiming “etheral solutions to concrete problems”. I’ve said often enough, if Dr. King’s dream was achieved one fine Saturday night, Monday a lot of people would have to go to work in a lot of not very interesting jobs. Understandable in terms of history, why African-American society would believe that liberation can come only through some apocalyptic event. But, ultimately, social justice is economic justice. What else can it be? And how can you deliver economic justice to a suffering underclass of undereducated people except in the form of that “not very interesting job”. In the end, generalities and principles have to be turned into bricks and bread, or they mean nothing in the human world, not to a dispossessed population.

So the question is valid. Why does no one admit that the omega point inevitably has to be no more than a semiskilled job, a decent paycheck and a place in the stable element of the lower middle class?

You convinced me. White cops without precognition should wait for black people to shoot first. They should then have any possible wounds examined by black residents who will decide if the cops are allowed to shoot back. Considering white privilage, black criminals should be excused the first hit on whte cops. The number of black criminals shooting at the police must be insignificant compared to the number of 12 year old black children brandishing weapons at the police. I say we bring in this new policy immediately for the good of all.

>@ Dave Asbo “We will be in a terrible state if we make it impossible for the police to protect us from armed black people.”
>
>Who’s “us”? Do you mean innocent, unarmed white people like those kids in the photo?

I mean everyone including crimiminals of all colors. A black criminal can be a victim of black crime on his day off. If the police are specifically unable to armed black criminals everyone suffers.

It’s like you can’t get enough of me. Why bring up my comment from another thread here? I wasn’t implying that the young man was criminal at all, and you know that. He’s obviously a straight-arrow, sheltered nerd.

My point was that the “Narrative” must always identify white people as evil for being “racist” and that is the only racial issue worthy of focus. None of the problems in the black community that cause (at least in part) blacks to frequently receive disparate treatment (including from blacks themselves) are focused on. Instead it’s all white people’s fault. This is the Narrative here and in the MSM.

I choose to fight back against the Narrative’s control. Here is a story that didn’t get much press, about a social justice warrior killed for his white privilege:

Ask yourself, why did the made up (Rolling Stone just issued a formal apology) story of the UVA gang rape by supposedly white frat men get tons of national press, when several recent college gang rape stories (with actual evidence) where the known perpetrators were black were buried in the MSM?

It’s simple.. we must always focus everything on how evil white males are.. that’s the Narrative. It’s abagond’s site, so he’s free to do “500 words a day on whatever [he wants]”, and I do enjoy reading, but I just wanted to try to draw attention to the story choice.

I’m not a person who just hates all blacks and think they are criminals as you like to characterize me as. I had lunch with a guy originally from Africa today who I just met a couple weeks back. He’s one of the most civil, professional guys I have met in my city, even though he’s struggling to find good employment at the moment, and I would probably let him crash at my place for a few weeks if I were still single.

I work very hard not to let the big picture situation cloud my judgment of individuals. Not everyone is able to do that, however.

@Kiwi
“I’ve noticed that the first thing a white person often thinks of upon seeing a black boy is a criminal.”

If statistically young black men gave more blue candy than pink candy, and white people didn’t really like blue candy, they wouldn’t cross the road to avoid young black men. White people cross the road from young black men to avoid getting beaten up and/or robbed. Being beaten up and/or robbed by a young black man is such an unpleasant experience that people will make a big effort to avoid a small chance of the event. Blacks dug themselves a hole with their own actions. Are you unaware of the federal crime statistics? The media cover up so much black crime that black people think it is rare for whites to be killed or otherwise victimized by blacks.

I have to see the event in life to be able to judge the threat. Those white kids in the photo you pointed out aren’t in a threatening attitude.

Black people are in denial about their communities violence and criminality. The media are going to encourage black feelings of victimization to create inter-community violence. Black people have everything to lose. More riots will wake up more white people to the problem of black criminality and violence. Right now the media has most white people blisfully unaware of the issue. Tolerance to diversity is inversely proportional to your distance from it.

“Saying “criminals of all colors” was clearly just a color-blind way to cover his ass.”

Blacks are an especial danger to other blacks which is why I made that comment. I am glad of the opportunity of clarifying this.

“If statistically young black men gave more blue candy than pink candy, and white people didn’t really like blue candy, they wouldn’t cross the road to avoid young black men. White people cross the road from young black men to avoid getting beaten up and/or robbed.”

Sigh… those of us who have been on this site for some time usually get to the point where we simply ignore such statements, having rebutted them so many times in the past. But I have a little more patience this morning than usual.

First, do you understand that statistics are not individually predictive?

“And as if on cue, we have Dave Asbo’s comment right above mine, confirming my point. His racial biases are as plain as day. Just give him a gun, a cop uniform, a black kid, and we’ve got *bang* *bang*.”

I am built for love, not war.

Black people are being used by the media to further an agenda on a conflict model. Black enjoyment of victim status is their downfall. If you allow the past to be a mill stone around your neck you will drown. The chance for black people is to separate from other races, self discover, and evolve. Idolatry of material wealth is a trap. Don’t be judged by your wallet or possessions. Think about which role models are projected for black people. Where those are dysfunctional recognize the work of your enemies.

If white people rules USA would a group like “La Raza” (the race) be funded by the foundations? We are all under the gun.

Economically, we should be shooting for wealth not jobs only. Wasn’t “Arbeit Macht Frei” written above one of the concentration camps? Wealth is the tree and money is the fruit. The fruit has seeds so money can seed wealth but I don’t think money is wealth per se. You have to eat it and you’ll soon use it up. A wealthy person spends his/her time keeping their tree healthy with mulch, fertilizer, water etc. so it can produce abundantly on its own. A person without wealth exchanges their time for fruit and they eat even the seeds for nourishment. Wealth is the possession of any money generating system that multiplies your effort. At the top level, there are literal money generating systems that require no input. Below that, businesses can take a certain input and multiply it by adding value and exchanging the output for more money than the input. Your wealth is inversely proportional to the effort with which you make money.

A post that I didn’t bother to submit began like this:
“The only way the problem of white racism will be solved is to undermine their power which means becoming more powerful as a group. White people are not going to act justly towards people they have the ability to exploit. I have centuries worth of history to support that assertion. Whites became destructive towards those they settled with once they had the numbers and strategic or technical ability to destroy them. Insofar as those people (Maori, Native Americans, Native South Africans, African Americans etc.) have not become extinct the white attitutde towards them is generally contemptuous even in ~2015.”

So the economics of the situation corresponds with the general argument above. Of course, there has to be a practical roadmap which may involve intermediate steps but economic power should be a goal. A resurgence of the KKK in the South was not because black people were lazy and criminal but because they were making economic and political progress in places where they were sometimes a demographic majority. The white solution was to terrorize them to such an extent that many decided to leave. Later in the 1920s a riot by whites burned one of the wealthiest black communities in the nation to the ground.

From Wikipedia:
“Greenwood is a neighborhood in Tulsa, Oklahoma. As one of the most successful and wealthiest African American communities in the United States during the early 20th Century, it was popularly known as America’s “Black Wall Street” until the Tulsa Race Riot of 1921. The invasion was one of the most devastating massacres in the history of US race relations, destroying the once thriving Greenwood community.

Within five years after the massacre, surviving residents who chose to remain in Tulsa rebuilt much of the district. They accomplished this despite the opposition of many white Tulsa political and business leaders. It resumed being a vital black community until segregation was overturned by the Federal Government during the 1950s and 1960s. Desegregation encouraged blacks to live and shop elsewhere in the city, causing Greenwood to lose much of its original vitality.”

Tangentially, the above demonstrates a possible benefit of “strategic segregation” at least in terms of how our money circulates. Legal protection against racism came with freedom to spend our money anywhere and we readily exercised it to the detriment of black businesses.

“Origin” I, myself, in the course of my posts, brought up the issue of jobs. Jobs are important, but the issue you raise is important too, that of wealth.

My point is, in the case of people living in misery because their economic straits, they do need jobs. When you have entire extended families and the people close to them who are not family members not working, or working in limited numbers, jobs are an issue. What can you do with people of limited education, skills and experience except give them a semiskilled job. Some, of course, would work their way up. Others would not, but at least they would have the dignity of getting a paycheck (more likely, an AFT or cash card refill) every week.

I am white myself and I can tell you, I think the “white people” argument you make is a straw man argument. Most white have and control no wealth. These, as I look at the situation are the white population of America and other predominantly white countries. The white elite, from this point of view, is the “other”, something else. A friend of mine, a Vietnam veteran from an educated family, who could not relate to college and became a proletarian intellectual by choice, described the American elite as “in America, but not of it.” I think you could extend that idea to the world elite and say that worldwide, the elite is “in the world, but not of it.”

I can’t tell you every detail of my background, but I am from a poverty-stricken background. My graduate school (GRE) test scores always have been well higher than the median of American-born white graduates of the Ivy League. Yet I get treated like assertions such as that I could work as medical or technical journalist are treated as absurd fantasies by the middle class elite. That’s in face-to-face contact and up close and personal, not theoretically.

My basic position is that all white people for whom specific arrangements have not been made to provide for their education an intake into the employment system are socioeconomically and educationally disadvantaged and should be treated as such.

The black position, specifically has a flaw in it in my estimation. It does not in any basic way attack the system. In fact, it seems to trade whatever political power blacks have in American to elite in return for elite support of an agenda which has plausibility for blacks in America, but undermines everyone else.

Just consider that famous straw man case, Griggs v. Duke power, which effectively banned aptitude testing in employment in America. Who got hurt by that? I’ve heard the mouthings of leftist social scientists who claim that all aptitude testing measures is how middle class you are. Although that is true to a considerable extent, all I can say in response is that these people (social scientists) did not know the same people I did. I grew up on the South Side of Chicago and knew people who were from and lived in the ghetto. There are people in the ghetto and in the underclass and among the chronically underemployed who might have been identified through testing.

@ thwack
“Whenever white people post a brutal black on white crime; I retort with the fact that black people are far more brutal to each other than to white people.

Black people abusing black people is presented as a type of pornography, while black people abusing white people is presented as horror.”

both is true. but it is also true that black people are far more brutal to whites (ans asians, and hispanics, …) than whites (and asians, hispanics…) are to blacks. and thats the really interesting point.

@ sharinair
Well every single current statistic about interracial violence in countries like USA, UK, South Africa i know shows that there is much more violence from people of subsaharan anncestry to poeple of non subsaharan ancestry than the other way round.
@ King
With black i mean people with “predominantly recent subsaharan african ancestry, but not ethiopian or somalian” i guess that it similar definition as in the comment i answered to. The definition has not much to do with skin color.

both is true. but it is also true that black people are far more brutal to whites (snip) than whites (snip) are to blacks.
——————————————————————————————–

DISCLOSURE: I snipped out your “Asians” and “Hispanics” for clarity.

Erik,

White brutality against blacks is not even catagorized as brutality by white people, OR recognized as brutality by black people because it is cloaked in white supremacy, and ALL people consider white supremacy normal.

Im sure some Nazi guards at Auchwitz got punished from time to time for abusing Jewish inmates; but the existence of the camp was never a point of discussion among the guards or the average inmate.

If I was a “black satan”, and wanted to produce parity of mistreatment between black and white people; I would start by removing white fathers from the white home and generating a cycle of bastardy in the white population.

Interesting when a person on open thread asked you to cite a stat you claimed you had no access to American stats, but even more interesting that what Thwack said went so far over your head I am not sure whether to laugh or retort…..I will do both.

“Well every single current statistic about interracial violence in countries like USA”—-If you actually took the time to read a crime stat, assuming you know how to read one, you would know that 90% of blacks are the victims of other blacks. Which suggests that they actually seem to be more brutal to their own.

Secondly Thwack said “black people are far more brutal to each other than to white people.”—Please apply a certain level of reading comprehension here. Brutal can refer in many ways to how blacks treat other blacks. Excluding them with the not black enough, disliking their hair etc. All the things that white people do to them just coming from their own people at an alarming level. So like I said. Get out of your box and really see how trut your babble is.

I do not believe that the reason for more violence from blacks to non-blacks than the other way round are societal conditions like family structure, socioeconomic structure and so on. I also do not believe that non-blacks “design” this societal conditions. I do even less believe that non-blacks design those societal conditions and INTEND to harm blacks by that.
No I believe that there are
a) on average differences in behavior between the races which are due to genetic differences. This does NOT mean that blacks are “inferior” because of this. If anything they are superior because of those. especially whites adore black people because of their higher strength and aggression. Just look at american football, interracial marriages and so on. Also a large part of whites today do value black lives higher than non-black lives, BECAUSE they think blacks are superior with their aggression and strength.
b) in addition to that there is a ideology among blacks which makes it easier to do violence do non-blacks than the other way round. This ideology can be called the “I have the right to beat that guy because he has build a bigger house than I” ideology. That way the Hutus (westafrican Bantu ancestry) felt they had the right to attack the Tutsis (east african ancestry), Turks felt they had a right to attack Armenians, Germans felt they had the right to attack Jews. By that I do not want to compare the named geneocides to current interracial violence, because luckily as bad as it is, current interracial violence it is not as bad as those named genocies. I only want to describe a certain ideological frame which can be observed in different situations.

1. By your measure, Whites are more brutal to Whites than Blacks are. And that measure does not even count world wars.

2. During slavery, Whites killed least 10 million Blacks – by working them to death, the “losses” during the slave trade, etc. There is nothing even close to that done by Blacks to Whites, not even if you count up all the homicides.

1) yes this is true, especially from an international viewpoint. Stil as far as I know blacks kill more whites in the USA than whites do PROPORTIONAL to their share of the population, the same is probably the case in most western countries The fact that more whites are killed/beaten/etc. by whites than by blacks is largely due to the fact that the races still live quite separated. Separated between countries and seperated within countries. With the ongoing migration this will change. In some countries blacks do much more violence against whites than whites do so, a example is South Africa.

2) this is also true.
While I think slavery is a crime that cannot be justified I think the importance of the slave trade gets overestimated today. First one has to think of alternative most slaves from westafrica had in westafrica itself. As I understand most were Prisoners of War in tribal conflicts in westafrica (or wars between westafrican nations) who faced a life as POW and slave in another wetsafrican nation or tribe than their own, hardly better than the life as a slave in the New World. The victorious tribe/nation simply sold their slaves instead of letting them work for themselves. Second most whites of that time also lived the lives of slaves. In middle/eastern Europe the population majority were slaves to Landowners and had the same bad living expectancy like slaves in the Carribean or the USA. Third other groups also had comparable living conditions like black slaves and they even had the same numbers, this is the case for asian coolies. But as they did not reproduce and as is does not fit into the zeitgeist they do not get the same attention like black slaves.
That said, I still think slavery was a huge crime and much worse than the interracial crime we are having today.
But: today violence is a black on white thing, not the other way round. And while in the times of slavery everybody knew this would have to end some day, I see no end today. Year after year whites get victimized. What one can obverse today is a huge migration from subsaharaan africa (with and extremely high TFR) to the rest of the world (which has a low TFR). Thus the violence from blacks against non-blacks will probably even rise, and only stop when blacks have replaced every Indian in India and every Chinese in China and every French in France.

@thwack
well there is one legitimation to “mistreat” somebody of another race (which is the important thing, skin color doesn´t matter that much): because one can do so because one is stronger. This is probably one of the legitimations blacks use when mistreating whites, asians, hispanics, and this is also one legitmation white liberals secretly have in their minds when they avoid talking about black violence or shut everybody down who tries to do so

Observe what happens when you take Erics comments and place them in a different historical context?

A Roman governor Supremus Whitemanious writing in the 4th century says:

I do not believe that the reason for more violence from Germans to non-Germans than the other way round are societal conditions like family structure, socioeconomic structure and so on. I also do not believe that non-Germans “design” this societal conditions. I do even less believe that non-Germans design those societal conditions and INTEND to harm Romans by that.
No I believe that there are

a) on average differences in behavior between the races which are due to genetic differences. This does NOT mean that Germans are “inferior” because of this. If anything they are superior because of those. especially Romans adore German people because of their higher strength and aggression. Just look at German Gladiators, interracial marriages and so on. Also a large part of Romans today do value German lives higher than non-German lives, BECAUSE they think Germans are superior with their aggression and strength.

@King
“First, do you understand that statistics are not individually predictive?”

I don’t live in one instance. Therefore I take action to mitigate risk.

“Yes because if there was one incident of Blacks (and Latinos) killing a Serb, then that totally invalidates Linda Keres Carter’s point. Those Black criminals with the hammers represent the entire race as elected ambassadors. How did we miss that?”

Two incidents in the same city. Both groups are whites attacked by blacks. Media black out. Compare and contrast to the coverage given to the rare white on black violence. The media are inciting blacks to violence for their own purposes. Blacks who take a broad view will see that black violence is the problem to be addressed.

@thwack

“Whenever white people post a brutal black on white crime; I retort with the fact that black people are far more brutal to each other than to white people.”

I already know this. But it doesn’t change the fact that I am safer staying away from black people. It doesn’t change the fact that media coverage is biased, blowing white-on-black incidents out of proportion while ignoring the black-on-white crime wave.

@Origin

“Economically, we should be shooting for wealth not jobs only … Wealth is the tree and money is the fruit. ”

Money is only important for what you do with it. If black people get together they should invest money in their future rather than investing in the work of whites/others. Sitting back and living off dividends of white corporations, or putting useless blacks into well paid jobs they can’t handle, is racial suicide.

“White people are not going to act justly towards people they have the ability to exploit. I have centuries worth of history to support that assertion.” etc. etc.

I have news for you, mister. White people are only serving the drinks in the USA. Why do you think potential presidents have to kiss Israeli ass if they want a shot at the top slot. The Ivy league is a passport to a grand future. Guess who is stealing it?

If you plan involves taking the wealth of the USA and being segregated with no further support from white people I am with you 100%. I don’t care about material wealth. If your plan involves further mooching I am against it.

“I don’t live in one instance. Therefore I take action to mitigate risk.”

Only because you don’t understand how statistics work and what they mean. If I informed you that 20% more meteors fall in the northern hemisphere than in the southern, would you move to Samoa in order to “mitigate your risk” of being struck by a meteor?

If you would then you are a fool.

The first question you should ask is, “What is the actual risk?” Not “How much more is this risk compared with another risk.”

@ abagond:
but still there are a far more black on white murders than white on black murders.
Also on should remember that the data from the FBI from 2011 is not complete. They list around 6000 murders but in that year more than 12000 murders happened in the USA.

conceding armed conflicts: armed conflicts are in my opinion a completely different thing from everyday violence. the weakest, most non-aggressive person on earth can kill hundreds of only he has the right weapons.

The everyday violence in subsaharan Africa is very high. Additional it quite likely that subsaharan Africa sees a civil war similar to the one in the congo region or ruanda recently in the next decade. Only with more involved persons, more victims, more refugees because the population has grown since the nineties.

@ King
the application of the statistic is: if the USA would be made up of 50% blacks 50% whites it is very much likely that more whites would get killed by blacks than by whites.

Also one should not forget that there are other countries with a similar unbalance, in the case of South Africa it is much more extreme. in UK it is probably similar to the USA.
I do not know one country where in the last 10 years more people of subsaharan African ancestry have been killed by people of non-subsaharan african ancestry have been killed than the other way round

For me to believe you, I would have to overlook the tens of millions of people who were killed by war, genocide and slavery in the past, the tens of thousands of people being killed in armed conflicts today, this year – and even 93% of the murders in the US! If those are the rules, then you can prove anything.

Does anyone know if there is any data out there that breaks out homicides by whether they are committed by persons known to the victim vs. by strangers, in addition to by race of killer and victim?

I would guess that a majority of victims are killed by someone they knew, who would be more likely to be someone of the same race.

However, I don’t think it makes sense to conflate that type of killing (e.g., husband kills cheating wife or neighbors/friends get into a feud) with the kind where someone gets shot in a back alley by someone they never met, which has more to do with community safety vs. interpersonal relationships.

@ abagond
thats rights
I get 0.0000118 and 0.0000115, but the number is higher for whites.
I do not understand why it is higher when at the same time
“according to this statistic of 2011 about cases where the race of the offender was known blacks killed over 14% of all white who were killed, but only less than 13% of the population was black at that time according to this statistic” this is still true. there is a contradiction, much likely the numbers are somehow correct.
@sharinair
the data for 2013 is actually online, even less whites got killed by blacks.
still the around half of homicides in the USA seem not to get covered by those data

@ at abagond
also one should not fogey that whites already try to escape black violence. there are many no-go areas for whites but no no-go areas for blacks. when whites enter no-go areas often bad things happen

The application of the statistic is: if the USA would be made up of 50% blacks 50% whites it is very much likely that more whites would get killed by blacks than by whites.”

I don’t think you understand what I’m asking you. Allow me to demonstrate what I mean. I ask you what is the application for your statistic… in other words, how do you apply it in the real world?

Your answer to me is not to go to the real world but rather to imagine a hypothetical in which half the world is Black and half the world is White and extrapolating that in such a world, more Whites would be killed than Blacks.

That is not an application, that is simply a fanciful way repeating that the very same idea that the Black on White murder rate is higher than the reverse. You have said nothing new.

I have mixed feelings about the video. It does seem unjust that a guy is stopped just for “walking while black”. On the other hand, someone called in to say the guy looked “suspicious”. Often citizens have hunches that prove to be correct (though maybe more often than not, it’s just a false alarm). Do we just have police officers ignore citizen calls to investigate “suspicious activity”? If so, more crime happens, though we avoid a lot of false alarms.

The officer was at least reasonably courteous (though maybe being on tape kept him on his best behavior).

I actually was stopped once because someone called in my dad’s car and said it looked “suspicious”, and they thought I might be doing a drug deal just because of where I had parked (not in the crowded main lot). I got patted down and got to have police dogs running through the back of my dad’s car sniffing for non-existent drugs. I probably could have refused the search, but then the cops would look for an excuse to bust me for something else.. so I just thought to myself, “this too shall pass”. Didn’t think it had anything to do with “parking while white”. Anyway, this was probably 15 years ago. It’s just the way cops operate.

Erik said: “there are many no-go areas for whites but no no-go areas for blacks.”

There certainly are neighborhoods where blacks aren’t welcome (unless they make an extra effort to appear unthuggish), which would lead to police calls like the one jefe is complaining about.

“I have mixed feelings about the video. It does seem unjust that a guy is stopped just for “walking while black”. On the other hand, someone called in to say the guy looked “suspicious”. Often citizens have hunches that prove to be correct (though maybe more often than not, it’s just a false alarm). Do we just have police officers ignore citizen calls to investigate “suspicious activity”?

This is where the system breaks down: Police cannot respond every time a person calls in, no matter the reason. It is incumbent upon the police to be both measured and interrogatory when fielding citizen complaints.

Certain questions need to be asked:
– What is the person doing that makes you nervous?
– Have you had and previous trouble with this person?
– Is this person visibly carrying a weapon?
– Has this person verbally threatened anybody?
– How long has this person been there?

Otherwise showing up to every crazy phone call only serves to tie up the police in wasting their time on things that should have been vetted on the phone.

The problem is that some White people in certain neighborhoods truly don’t want to see Black people walking down their streets. They will call the police the instant they see a Black man walking down the sidewalk, as a means of sending a message that Blacks are not welcome. When the police unquestioningly respond to such calls they avail themselves to be the very tools of racism.

Callers need to be challenged when they make vague phone calls about “hunches.” And records should be kept so that the same people cannot do this over and over as a means of harassment to people who look a certain way.

Thank you for your kind attention and for your indulgence. Only with such patience and care can we hope to bridge the divide between positions.

I glimpse a marvellous future for black people. It isn’t down the road on which we are headed. Humanity is being driven in a suicidal direction.

“If I informed you that 20% more meteors fall in the northern hemisphere than in the southern….”

Vanishingly small risk +20% = don’t worry. How shall we compare that to the decision of a white family whether to stay in detroit? I have some statistics for you but I don’t want to inflame passions.

In many ways black people are superior to other races. Their strengths never seem to be explored (or are never applauded explicitly.) Instead black people are subconsciously portrayed as second class white people; in need of affirmative action and help to “act white”.

Part of the problem is that the Ivy league turns out thousands of (SORRY for the ugly phrase) “Uncle Toms” each year. These people are paid off by the system to envisage black people in a white frame work. They are inadvertant traitors.

My son is a “chip off the old block”. I am very good with my hands. This is not an appreciated skill today. I make old (ancient for some people) instruments. I made enough $ to put my son through a modest private school. They tested him and found that his aptitude was in the same direction. Because society doesn’t value this mechanical intelligence my son didn’t want to take up a similar occupation to me. He has drifted from job to job. He wants to do something which is valued.

Black people are drifting because “society” (a destructively engineered construct) does not appreciate their positive qualities. Separation and self realization as a race is the next step.

“the data for 2013 is actually online”—-Duh, I know it is online which is why I said to you “You do realize 2013 stats are available right?”. You are the one that acted as if you could not find it and asked me for a link to it. Heck I noticed a pattern about how you do that every single time someone confronts you on stats of you failed logic in cases you know little or nothing about.

“even less whites got killed by blacks. still the around half of homicides in the USA seem not to get covered by those data”—-It does not matter what is covered by that data as it matters more what you are trying to claim that data supports. By your own words you stated blacks are more brutal to whites than they are to other blacks. Your sources do not support this. You are still talking out of your azz. I know data on these are not complete and I know enough of what they say to call you on any type of nonsense you try to spout.

I have gone to the DOJ stats in the past to prove my points but that gets tiring when you’ve done it so many times. Perhaps I can just state what I (and others) have found.

1. Most Black crime is directed at fellow Blacks

So crime rates can be deceptive in their implications regarding the risk to White people. Even though Black crime rates are higher, they are about 80% directed to other Blacks (if memory serves). Of the remaining 20% a good deal of those crimes are against Latinos who share a lot of the same crime hotspots as poor Blacks. So even though the reported crime rate of Black on White crime is higher than the reverse, it is still rather low to the average White person. In fact most White crimes are also against White people (you can check the figures) yet Whites do not avoid other Whites “as a precaution.”

2. Most Crimes Occur in Certain Neighborhoods

For the most part, crime occurs in the ghetto, the Barrio, and in poor White neighborhoods. Obviously that does not mean that things do not happen in the suburbs and more affluent or middle-class areas, but the chances are far lower there. So if we are talking strictly about mitigating risk, then if you don’t have business in the barrio or ghetto, then that too takes your chances of becoming a crime victim way down.

3. Most crimes Occur at Certain Times of Day

Again, late nights (after 10:00 pm) until early morning are when most crimes occur according to police statistics, so if you are not habitually out at those hours your chances of being victimized are once again lowered.

4. Most Crimes are Committed by a Small Portion of Society (Yes Even Blacks)

One of the benefits of recent DNA crime matching technology is the knowledge that many cold cases have been matched by DNA to known criminals. In other words, there are a minority of prolific and itinerant criminals who are responsible for the larger potion of crimes. By far, most people of all races are non.-criminals.

NOW please understand, I am not saying\g that White people are never victimized by Black criminals in broad daylight, at Disneyland. What I am saying is that such instances are statistically rare. Yes, you can provide pages of articles on such events, in the same way that I can produce pages of names of people who have been struck by lightning. It’s still a rare occurrence, given the number of people in the U.S. and the number of occurrences.

So all of this to say that the statistics can be deceptive if you don’t take notice of other mitigating factors. Most of the blatant “avoid the dark-skinned people” tactics are illogical and ineffective to boot.

We were condemned as violent thugs, that excuse was used to annihilate us physically and culturally. Another interesting thing to think about. How true was it? Whether true or not, that logic was carried as far as it can go. What were the steps? What could we have done differently? It definitely would be a reasonable model for worst outcomes.

But it probably can’t get as bad here. We were totally militarized for centuries. (cannon fodder for the Austrians). We have weird reflexes around physical threats (crazy brave). It was the opposite here. Totally de-militarized, so that Black people, as I’ve observed, have an unusual capacity for putting up with crap. It would seem logical that that would mute the ability to be framed as violent threats. ‘Cause that’s what they want to do. They want to make it seem like it’s your fault. Once they’ve done that, they can get away with anything.

I think these two things must be part of required police training, both for rookies and continued development training:

1. Police response to calls

Learn how to vet out genuine criminal calls from nuisance or alleged vagrancy calls.

This would not have prevented the 2 tragedies in the Trayvon Martin case
– Death of an unarmed teenager not committing any crime
– Acquittal of his killer

We need other strategies to combat this problem.

2. Base Rate Fallacy

This should be required for all police officers including the Bayesian probability theory behind it. They should be required to take a refresher every 3 years and pass. If they cannot pass, then put on administrative leave.

If the cop cannot handle the math, then he should not be a cop. Can be an unarmed security guard instead.

Erik said “Thus the violence from blacks against non-blacks will probably even rise, and only stop when blacks have replaced every Indian in India and every Chinese in China and every French in France”

Ironically, that is exactly what the a Europeans did to the NATIVES of Americas. But you worry about Arficans in Asia? If one uses past behavior as a guide you’re focused on the wrong group.

I said it before, and I’ll say it as many times as I want to. There are many whites who have a problem with black people, and it’s mostly due to fear, If the police thought that a 12 year-old black boy was 20 years-old, something is wrong with him, even if the story is fabricated. And let’s not overlook how any object, especially a TOY gun, in the hands of black men can frighten the dickens out of cops.

And the press, the hell with them. There have been articles that point out the media’s racial bias when it comes to black victims and white killers.

I have a racial conception which doesn’t write off black people as a result of superficial judgements of their performance. For me life is about being able to evolve. I am in favor for segregation. I think that is a way forward for everyone. Black people would be big winners from taking their destiny into their own hands. I am totally in favor of giving black people a huge payout to allow them to do that. Black people could cut their criminality stats to virtually zero if they had a free hand in their own communities.

Yes to all those things you mention. They inform white people to move away from black areas when they can. Here are some stats from the NY police department 2011.

–The race/ethnicity of known Murder and Non-Negligent Manslaughter suspects mirrors the victim population with Black (56.3%) and Hispanic (35.0%) suspects accounting for the majority of suspects.

–White suspects account for only 5.5% of all Murder and Non-Negligent Manslaughter suspects while whites massively outnumber blacks.

–The race/ethnicity of known shooters criminals who fire guns in the commission is overwhelmingly Black (72.5%). Hispanic suspects accounted for an additional (23.9%) of all suspects.

–White suspects accounted for an extremely low 2.5% of criminal shooters of weapons. This is an important fact as it is quite logical that people who are firing weapons in crimes far more likely draw police fire in return.

–The race/ethnicity of known Robbery suspects is primarily Black (70.6%). Hispanic suspects account for an additional (24.0%) of the suspect population.

–White suspects account for only 3.9% of all Robbery suspects while Asian/Pacific Islanders accounted for 1.4% of known Robbery suspects.

–When all the figures for these main serious criminal activities (violent crime, murder, robbery and criminal shooting of firearms) are combined, it transpires that 66.5% of all violent criminals in the city are black, 27.6% are Hispanic, and only 4% are white and 1.9% are Asian.

–It shows that significant numbers of innocent White citizens are victimized by Black criminals and that Blacks are hardly ever victims of White murder, assault and rape.

Whites are 4% of criminals and only 2.5 percent of criminal shooters yet make up 44% of all those shot dead by the police

No one should be able to hide their crimes or supremacism in plain sight (chosen people?) Who actually gained from the civil rights movement? When did the NAACP staff become majority black control? Feel free to contradict me if you want a mountain of damning evidence. Or you could just walk away..

@Brothawolf

Isn’t the answer for black people to have segregation with a decent chance ($$$) to start their own autonymous society?

(remembering once again that most Black murder is against other Blacks)

So we really need to reduce the chances from 0.000004 (1 in 250,000) to 17% of that total figure. I could go on and on moving further out on the decimal places, but to most people, those kind of small fractions really become meaningless to most people.

The point is that it’s really, REALLY, rare *statistically* for a White person to to be killed by a Black person. – NO, not quite as rare as a Black person being murdered by a White person, but rare enough that trying to actively avoid the chance by avoiding Black people is patently illogical.

What is your plan to avoid being struck my a comet?
What is your plan to avoid being hit by lightning?
What is your plan to avoid being swallowed by a sinkhole?
What is your plan to avoid being eaten by an escaped Bengal Tiger?

Not sure why we’re harking on NYPD stats, as the Tamir Rice incident occurred elsewhere, anyway, it’s a wonder why you and David Duke are using 2011 stats as opposed to the most recent stats from 2012.

In 2011 there were actually a total of 92 police shootings, and 67% were aimed at blacks. It just so happened that more blacks survived the shootings that year only. Doesn’t change the fact they were shot at far more than whites.

And in 2012 69% of people shot by police and 69% killed by police were black.

And interestingly, black officers were 16% of the force, but 13% involved in shootings. White officers made up 53% of the NYPD police force in 2011, but 65% of those involved in police shootings….hmmmm…

Given your figures, if black people take elementary precautions like not robbing a store, not walking the streets high on drugs, and not being agressive with police officers, is their risk of being shot by the police significant? Can we agree that there is no justification for the incessant press coverage of the death of Mike Brown and no justification for the protests?

Violence which doesn’t lead to death is also a problem. So you want to consider robbery and acts of violence in your figures.

“(remembering once again that most Black murder is against other Blacks)”

White people learn to keep away from black areas or the percentage of whites killed would be higher. White skin doesn’t reflect bullets.

How can we use your statistics to study the question “should white people stay away from young black men”? We wouldn’t take into account the whole country, where whites are able to stay away from blacks most of the time. We would want to study cases where whites and blacks are juxdaposed and see what the risk is.

The government is considering bringing in legislation to rezone areas with little diversity so that low income housing can be built there. So it is interesting to know additional risk those communities will face from crime.

“What is your plan to avoid being struck my a comet?”

My tin foil hat protects me against most eventualities.

@resw77

“Not sure why we’re harking on NYPD stats” Just because David Duke went through them. NY is big enough to be significant. David Duke is actually very good. If you watch his videos you will he is very respectful and not the KKK chimera which is conjured up.

“It just so happened that more blacks survived the shootings that year only. Doesn’t change the fact they were shot at far more than whites.”

White people learn to avoid black people. Black people are more often stuck with each other. Black people therefore have more exposure to the problem.

“White officers made up 53% of the NYPD police force in 2011, but 65% of those involved in police shootings….hmmmm…”

Is there a significant risk for black people to be shot by white police officers that can’t be avoided by keeping within the law and behaving sensibly? Why are more whites doing the shooting? Are non-white officers goofing off, not really protecting the community, are non-whites being classified as whites when they shoot someone to fudge the figures?

The last point is interesting. If you look at government databases of felons that include mug shots you see many non-whites classified as whites. Did you know about this? I can find you a link if you want to take a peek.

I want the police to continue to protect me. But I want their first recourse to be to non-lethal methods of taking people down, where that is practical for an engagement range.

I don’t want to see black people shooting each other. I think segregation and black people having their own government is the way forward. A shared black mission has to give black people a boost. Black people will be able to take whatever special measures are needed to encourage stable communities.

What does that have to do with the fact that 69% of people shot at by NYPD in 2011 were black?

“Is there a significant risk for black people to be shot by white police officers that can’t be avoided by keeping within the law and behaving sensibly? ”

Back to the subject matter, Tamir Rice is a good example of some boy who was shot for just playing on a playground alone with a toy gun in a state that permits open carry. How do you explain that one?

“Are non-white officers goofing off, not really protecting the community, are non-whites being classified as whites when they shoot someone to fudge the figures?”

I won’t speculate w/o any evidence like you. But what is known is that NYPD officers self-report their race.

“If you look at government databases of felons that include mug shots you see many non-whites classified as whites.”

So because you happened to see a few mugshots that didn’t meet your stereotype of “white” it means the numbers are fudged? In the US, race is generally determined by the arresting officer or based on gov’t documents, btw.

“But I want their first recourse to be to non-lethal methods of taking people down”

So if Tamir Rice were a white boy named Thomas Riskowski who was playing with a toy gun alone on a playground, should he have been killed?

“I don’t want to see black people shooting each other.”

I don’t want to see white people shooting each other. Nationwide, 84% of whites are killed by other whites, according to the FBI. And lest we forget the tens of millions of whites slaughtered over the past 100 years in the two World Wars, the Holocaust and the Balkan Wars. All the blacks murdered around the world during that time frame doesn’t even come close.

“I think segregation and black people having their own government is the way forward.”

Almost a third of blacks in the US live in predominantly black communities today, where they do actually run their own local governments. Blacks also run the governments of many countries around the world, including my home country, where our biggest immigrants are whites from the US and Canada.

>“Black people are more often stuck with each other.”
>
>What does that have to do with the fact that 69% of people shot at by NYPD in 2011 were black?

Fewer black people are shot by cops than by other black people. Black people in the US living in a black people have to watch out for other black civilians than they do for cops.

>Back to the subject matter, Tamir Rice is a good example of some boy who was shot for
>just playing on a playground alone with a toy gun in a state that permits open carry.
>How do you explain that one?

That is trajic. He drew his replica pistol on other park users (he wasn’t alone) and then on the cops. For a twelve year old to be doing that he must have been a bit simple.

>So because you happened to see a few mugshots that didn’t meet your stereotype
>of “white” it means the numbers are fudged?

That is a serious issue. It boosts the apparent number of crimes committed by white people. They looked nothing like whites. This was done mischevously.

>So if Tamir Rice were a white boy named Thomas Riskowski who was playing with a toy
>gun alone on a playground, should he have been killed?

How many twelve year old kids would have done something this silly? Not too many I think.

>84% of whites are killed by other whites, according to the FBI.

I will be interested to look into that.

>Almost a third of blacks in the US live in predominantly black communities today, where they
>do actually run their own local governments. Blacks also run the governments of many
>countries around the world

That is what I like to hear. But I don’t want blacks to be constrained by conventional (white) notions of society.

Well, let’s begin with an admission. My figures are national figures generated either from the U.S. Department of Justice, the F.B.I., or the U.S. Census.The math is pre-Algebra (elementary school level). The application is straightforward. These are “my numbers” they are “THE NUMBERS.” So it turns out that Black modern rates are something of a canard—a distraction from reality. Before we agree to anything else, that is what we should agree on.

Now as for your question. Are White officer on Black citizen shootings rare too? Yes, they are. and can they be further mitigated by avoiding crime? Yes, to some degree that is correct. But you still may be shot for playing with a toy gun, or walking through the stairway of an apartment.

As for the protests, are you referring only to the Mike Brown protests or are we talking about the collective protest over several other recent cases?

Violence that does not lead to death: you now have the websites to check. Go ahead and have a look. You will find that these levels are also very low, statistically speaking.

“White people learn to keep away from black areas or the percentage of whites killed would be higher. White skin doesn’t reflect bullets”

Is it your understanding that “Black areas” are dangerous, or is it your understanding that “Ghetto areas” are dangerous?

Still irrelevant to the fact that 69% of people shot at by NYPD in 2011 were black. Since you’re lumping cops in with criminals, can I assume you support cops being held to the same standards as criminals when they kill unarmed people?

“He drew his replica pistol on other park users (he wasn’t alone) and then on the cops.”

That’s your opinion based on your stereotype. You are not the authority on who is white and who’s not. It’s a fictitious concept anyway.

“This was done mischevously.”

Provide the actual statistics and the evidence of people knowingly misclassifying criminals as white. All you’ve offered so far is your own personal stereotypes and the claim that you saw a few mugshots of criminals whose race you happen to dispute.

“How many twelve year old kids would have done something this silly?”

How about the 12 y.o. white boy named Mason Campbell who shot all those school students earlier this year? Was he killed by police? No. Tamir Rice didn’t shoot or harm anyone, yet he was killed by police.

“I will be interested to look into that.”

FBI’s 2012 crime data by race. It’s public information.

“But I don’t want blacks to be constrained by conventional (white) notions of society.”

It is very difficult to interpret anything from that source and compare it to anything, as it seems like 99% of the unarmed black men shot dead or otherwise killed by the police are not found on this site. Maybe it is because it is questionable (at least to some) how “innocent” they are. For example, Eric Garner did not make that site.

That actually detracts from the post and does not address what Abagond illustrated in his list. Maybe we also need to see the list on how many white people are taken alive by the police v. blacks.

We also need to define “resisting arrest” and about targeting people for arrest.

In any case, it looks like we have to address it on two angles
– racial profiling by law enforcement and in the judicial system
– police brutality in general

And then examine how racial profiling and police brutality intermesh to result in so many tragedies and “innocent” police officers.

Maybe it is because it is questionable (at least to some) how “innocent” they are. For example, Eric Garner did not make that site.

None of the people on the site appear to have generated much press.. I think that’s the point, the publisher wants to bring attention to shootings that have not hit the national press. It also didn’t include Dillon Taylor, Michael Brown, etc.. but the majority of victims appear to be people of color.

Maybe we also need to see the list on how many white people are taken alive by the police v. blacks. We also need to define “resisting arrest” and about targeting people for arrest.

I fully agree with both statements.

That actually detracts from the post and does not address what Abagond illustrated in his list.

What do you believe Abagond was illustrating..? He’s has used the James Holmes comparison before, it’s his blog but it seems to be not an equivalent comparison.

According to multiple news sources James Holmes was not in physical contact with any guns when he was arrested (they were in his car or in the theatre while he stood outside his vehicle) and was very passive in the presence of police. When the arresting officer first observed Holmes, he though that he was fellow police officer because of his attire but realized that his behavior was wrong:

A more apt comparison would be the apprehension of suspected black mass murderer(s) such as with John Muhammed and Malvo. Two black men suspected (and later convicted) of killing 16 people were arrested without incident. (They were asleep but had guns in the car with them…)

“Now as for your question. Are White officer on Black citizen shootings rare too? Yes, they are. and can they be further mitigated by avoiding crime? Yes, to some degree that is correct. But you still may be shot for playing with a toy gun, or walking through the stairway of an apartment.”

You see David, when it comes to the issues of the day, there are really two basic concerns to address:

1) Criminals should not act like criminals. (obviously)

2) The *POLICE* should also not act like criminals!

And the answer to #2 is not to frantically keep pointing back to #1
That is a big part of the reason why there are ongoing nationwide protests.

Those websites do address one aspect of the police brutality situation, ie, unreported police abuse and the impunity that is granted to the police.

Those websites do not address the overwhelming targeting of blacks and other non-whites by the police. These could range from unwarranted deadly force to all those microaggessions of being hassled by the police for non-crimes, eg, DWB, SWB, WWB and stop and frisk. They look like modern day interpretations for the 20th century “crime” of vagrancy.

“The federal government recently issued a report detailing the Cleveland Police Department’s chronic, disturbing use of excessive force. That won’t stop until officers like the ones who killed Tamir are held accountable for their actions.

We know that petitions can work in cases like this. After Trayvon Martin was killed, the police refused to arrest his confessed killer, George Zimmerman, until millions of people signed a petition on Change.org. We know we can get justice for Tamir, but we need your help.

Thank you for standing with our family, and with children like Tamir all over America.

“In order to transform our communities, all people of color must find common cause in each other’s movements. We can only end racial injustice through strategic multiracial alliances at the local and national levels that are informed by an understanding of our connected histories, and through working within our constituencies to address anti-black racism and stereotypes about one another.”

I will admit that I didn’t know a lot about Tamir Rice until I read more about his tragic death recently. I think the reason I avoided reading about him was because it was too painful in light of all the things that have happened, and that continue to happen…my heart can’t take this stuff anymore. When a kid can’t play freely because of stereotypes, there are no words to express what a prison that is. Black and brown children have so many limitations placed upon them even today.

Not to veer too much off topic but 4 police officers were fired here in Florida (3 white, one Latino who identifies as white) when their racist attitudes/actions were revealed by the fiance of one of them.
The Latino cop is by far the most foul racist of the bunch…he took it to some pretty sickening levels by making a video of police dogs attacking Black people and other madness. This is a man who openly referred to Black people as “savages” and “n*ggers” and talked about wanting to kill Black people. I’m not surprised because I’ve run into a lot of white-identified Latinos in Florida who hate blacks and it makes me sick.
These are the folks being hired to protect and serve communities/citizens? What?

The reason I mention this cop is because there are plenty more just like him…”diversity training” will not help, that is putting a Band-Aid on the problem. A person with stereotypes or preconceived notions shouldn’t be in a position of authority at all. That is asking for trouble; they will destroy a member of the group they hate if given the chance.
I’ve heard some white people say that Trayvon Martin deserved to die, that he was a “thug”. They deny his humanity and the fact that he was somebody’s son and brother.
They act like he was some menacing brute instead of a teenage kid. In the racist mind, anyone who is different is to be feared and hated and in some cases, hunted down.

I am a woman of mixed race (black and white). I am relatively small for an adult. I am generally docile, soft-spoken and mild-mannered.
And yet even I have encountered those who wish to deny my humanity, place limitations on me and apply stereotypes that aren’t true (like the one about all Black women supposedly having an attitude problem).
In the case of Tamir Rice, his only crime was being a Black boy who was tall and well-developed for his age and playing in a way that sparked fear in the racist subconscious. I don’t know if his mother ever had the unfortunate “talk” with him that is almost mandatory for growing up in America; the talk where you have to tell your kids to be careful because they can be killed for looking a certain way or being the “wrong” color or even having the “wrong” type of hair. The talk about being followed while shopping or harassed by those in authority or treated like a second-class citizen.

My mother never had the “talk” with me but I learned…you’d better believe I learned. I don’t believe that anyone should live in fear but our children need to be told that in this society, some people will do them harm out of sick reasons. Some might say that the officer in Tamir’s case was reacting to a perceived threat but what bothers me is that he didn’t even try to assess the situation. He simply believed the person who called 911, went to the playground and shot a 12-year-old kid dead.
The language used about Tamir was also telling because they assumed he was a man based on his size. It is obvious by looking at him that he was nowhere near 20 years old; he was a tall kid but height is not an indicator of age. I’m very short and look much younger but in reality I am in my 30’s.

I think sometimes Black girls are viewed in this way as well because they tend to mature physically at a quicker rate. Billie Holiday was raped at the age of 10 or 11 but the police didn’t believe her…despite the bloody evidence. She was a Black girl with curves and they assumed she was about 16, when in reality she was just a little girl. This was also because of the assumption that Black girls couldn’t be violated, they were viewed as “loose”.

Nearly six months since Cleveland police fatally shot Rice at a community center park where he had been waving around a toy gun, questions are mounting as to why the investigation has taken so long, especially given explicit surveillance footage of the shooting and the troubling police record of the officer who pulled the trigger.

A county official familiar with the case told Mother Jones that the criminal investigation is focused solely on Loehmann. Garmback, who pulled the police car to within a few feet of Rice right before Loehmann stepped out and shot Rice almost instantly, is currently not under criminal investigation by the Sheriff’s department , the official said.

In the surveillance footage, both Loehmann and Garmback can be seen standing around after the shooting while Rice lies bleeding on the ground. About a minute and a half after the shooting, Garmback can be seen tackling Rice’s 14-year-old sister as she tries to run to her wounded brother. Four minutes go by during which Loehmann and Garmback make no attempt to give Rice first aid. An FBI agent in the area then comes to the scene and begins to tend to Rice before an ambulance arrives to take him to the hospital (where he died the next day).

Yes, we need to be outraged about Freddie Gray, but Tamir Rice’s killing was almost 6 months ago and he *should* have been a near perfect victim.

I was fascinated by the number of comments on how unfair it was to try young (white) girls as adults. Some went as far as to say that the judge was lacking compassion. Now I distinctly remember many comments on Tamir Rice stories that justified his death even though he was doing nothing wrong. A common claim was that “he should have known better” than to be playing in a park with a toy gun. Twelve year old Tamir should have understood the racial dynamics that put him at risk but 12 year old whites should be considered less culpable for attempted murder due to their age. I went back to compare but the comments wouldn’t load so maybe huffpost disables them after a while.

It’s not a coincidence that whites can find “compassion” for white murderers but find it easy to justify black deaths. They have a lot of practice doing that throughout the history of America. Somehow James Holmes did not get the death sentence after multiple unprovoked murders. Do you really think claims of mental illness would have saved a black mass murderer from the syringe? We also heard a judge express sympathy for the Charleston church killer’s family. It’s all just a reflection of society’s racism.

The police took Dylann Roof to Burger King after killing nine Black people. I suppose if he had changed lanes without signalling or refused to put out his cigarette, it would have been a different story.

I think Sandra Bland had a graphic on her facebook of a black man beaten up in a police car while Roof was sitting beside him eating a burger. There is also a graphic, that I wish I could find now, that shows a cemetary with tombstones and all the trivial things that police killed black people for like “failing to signal a turn” and “selling cigarettes”.

The only place I can tell they look different is that the real one has diamond-shaped molding over the screws, iron sights added, and some of the paint scraped off the barrel, but otherwise, excellent likeness.
Open the two sites in separate tabs or windows, and drag one picture over the other to compare.

v8 also provided a video on HOW to break off the orange part.

It looks different when it’s by itself, looking at it as a curiosity in a website, than when it’s in someone’s hand pointed at you. Would you let someone point a gun at you without shooting them, on the FAITH that it’s a toy?
It’s easy to armchair General, “Oh, he shouldn’t have done that”, but it’s entirely different if YOU are the one with the gun pointed at you.
The people who called 911 also must’ve believed it was real, otherwise they’d just take it away from the kid and say, “NO”. If you want to say that’s the parents’ jurisdiction, that’s a good point: Where are the parents?

What real one? V8 did not provide a picture of the real one. He stated and I quote “supposed picture of tamir rice airsoft gun which fires plastic pellets, 6mm caliber, which is not compatible with metall bb’s which is 4.5mm caliber.”

“v8 also provided a video on HOW to break off the orange part.”—Yes he did, but you need to support YOUR claim that the kid purposely took it off. That video shows someone taking one off a rather large gun, but it does not show Tamir Rice doing it.

“It’s easy to armchair General, “Oh, he shouldn’t have done that”, but it’s entirely different if YOU are the one with the gun pointed at you.”—I have had one of these toy guns pointed at me. I did a kung fu move and got it away from them.

“The people who called 911 also must’ve believed it was real, otherwise they’d just take it away from the kid and say, “NO”. If you want to say that’s the parents’ jurisdiction, that’s a good point: Where are the parents?”—Actually they believed it was fake, but the dispatcher did not relay that message to the cops. Try again.

If the guy in the video needed to soak it in water, then unscrew the rest, he then does the same thing with a more difficult model that needs PLIERS just to unscrew it! That implies they don’t come off easy. They don’t just fall off.
So what is your theory on why there was no orange part on the gun pointed at the cop? To me, the video means SOMEONE had to remove it.

Congrats on being a kung-fu expert, I guess? BUT again, the people who called in 911, didn’t have Faith in their kung-fu moves, OR didn’t have TOTAL Faith it was fake.
Otherwise, as adults, why didn’t they just confiscate the gun themselves, rather than waste the police’s time, and ultimately the kid’s life?

Why would the dispatcher relay that to the cops? “I BELIEVE it’s fake, but it MIGHT be real, so I’m too scared to snatch the gun away myself!”

“That implies they don’t come off easy. They don’t just fall off.”—The video also shows a different gun. You don’t know if he could easily be taken off or not. You don’t know if his could fall off or not. You don’t possess his gun to know. You simply speculate on the acts of a youtube man with an entirely different gun. As such your claim still is not proven or supported.

“So what is your theory on why there was no orange part on the gun pointed at the cop? To me, the video means SOMEONE had to remove it.”—I have you several of my theories in my response. Reread it. At any rate it still does not support your claim that he purposely removed it.

“BUT again, the people who called in 911, didn’t have Faith in their kung-fu moves, OR didn’t have TOTAL Faith it was fake.’—For people who did not have total faith they sure had enough to relay such a message to the dispatcher.

“Otherwise, as adults, why didn’t they just confiscate the gun themselves, rather than waste the police’s time, and ultimately the kid’s life?”—Same reason why people fear saying or doing anything to other people’s kids. Lawsuits or Jail.

“Why would the dispatcher relay that to the cops? “I BELIEVE it’s fake, but it MIGHT be real, so I’m too scared to snatch the gun away myself!”—Dispatchers are not on the scene. They are in call centers. When people call in to 911 they relay information that a dispatcher then relays to the cops they radio to check things out.

KKK members without the hoods…at is all I have to say on the matter… when will this end…We all deserve to be treated with dignity and respect regardless of our race, gender etc….my heart bleeds every time I hear of another shooting.

[…] they grow up…but only if they live. What is more, his the third high-profile case in Ohio of a young person being shot while carrying a fake gun. Perhaps these type of air guns should not be allowed (see note in the […]