I read so much lately about a dictatorship, there is no Dictatorship in the USA. Following the laws by which a President is chosen, Trump seemed "to do the impossible" or so we all heard it WOULD be impossible, that when the process was over, and the "impossible" accomplished, did the Democratic Party and the Media ask, as a sane group would, what did (we) do badly or what was done badly by the DNC, and how can we avoid it in the future? No. They blamed everyone except the Democrat candidate and the multiple, assorted collusions of the press, i.e., giving of debate questions to the one candidate; asking for so-called good questions TO ask; simply wishing to "anoint" Hillary Clinton as President rather than ask her tough questions. It is not a secret that the media leans so far left that this time they fell over. Who to blame for so many mistakes and blunders and untruthful comments, coordinated in a manner to thus anoint? First, Denial. It seems the Denial stage has gone straight to unbridled rage far less than sane, more like madness. Believe what YOU want; if it does not fit your desires, scream; play-Doh and much, much worse. I knew it would be a disaster regardless of the outcome; I thought so as I entered the room in which I voted. Down-ballot only; for I knew 2020 was not far away, I also knew that neither candidate was well liked, and still 60/70% of the Citizenry thought the USA was on the wrong track. Never would I have imagined so many would throw such a tantrum.

In a True Dictatorship, History shows the 1st act is to assassinate the opponents.

Secondly, deprive all but the Military and Police of Weaponry.

Thirdly, takeover the Press quite literally, with the opposition taken care of in the 1st Act.

I saw an amazingly eye-opening interview with a very blonde young Swedish reporter. I learned how the Swedish government puts reporters in prison for so-called hate speech; loosely meaning whatever the Government says is so. Although the crimes in Sweden have increased by the Government's own numbers via BRÅ, rape, murders, and so on, this young lady, looking very uneasy when asked how what the Swedish Government Reports on Swedish Media was so out of line with the Swede's own reporting. That is, that a great number of serious crimes, as reported by their own "News" by BRÅ in a small country with a low population; and the numbers also pointed out that this surge correlated with the many immigrants from a vastly different societal background.

Rarely does any Media person get jailed in the United States; certainly not for the type of reasons Swedish Reporters now tend to keep their mouths shut about and refrain from reporting.

I am not a bigot, nor am I a racist. I have always known in the USA, Freedom of Speech is protected - then I am reminded of countries without that "luxury". Most sincerely, I was shocked about what I learned about restrictions; how race is SO BLATANTLY THE POINT in Sweden, that a perpetrator can be pixled out, and their skin made white and hair blonde, when in fact that person is Somalian. A before and after "corrected" photo is a real lie. Fake News extraordinaire, and that is in dear old Sweden, something I did not know, and would Never hear via Swedish Government Controlled Media. This is racism.

I wanted to know what happened in Sweden, if anything; it is not what I have "been told by the Swedish Government". If the people there want to be "good hosts", let them, but as for myself, I want those who come to the USA to not come to incite hatred or criminality of any type.

All of this Hitleresque speak is absurd. Think back on History, and not silly science fiction characters to see the world in its True light. It is easy to throw a tantrum, burn cars and invite violence; much harder it seems for so many to deal with the real world in a real way.

If Trump were a Dictatorship, sites such as this would not exist. All I see is very angry people who are self deluded by their own words. Finding excuses to ignore realities and stomping on any other thought that emerges from thoughtful discourse."There is no rise in violence in Europe or Sweden". Good to know. I Wish it were so.

Last edited by semisynthetic on Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:32 am, edited 5 times in total.

"Everything is a Poison; it is the amount or degree that separates one Poison from another"Paracelsus

What you continually fail to grasp semi is the level of anxiety and outrage that Trump's victory brought. Most people didn't vote for him and they are deeply unhappy with the election result. That's what happens in these situations. In the UK masses of people are really unhappy with the EU referendum vote despite more than half of the electorate voting 'leave'. If you lived here I suspect you would also regard those who are resisting the steady shift towards the EU exit as being hysterical, or even 'less than sane'. An election victory doesn't make the losing side just go away - it makes them more determined to fight back. I recall endless criticism of Obama from you when he was President - can you tell me why you didn't just accept his victory as you expect people to accept Trump's?

Sometimes victory for an extremist candidate happens. It happened in the USA. But what happens if the far right politicians who are gaining ground in Europe actually triumph? I am talking about Marie Le Pen and Geert Wilders. These people have huge support and they might easily win the forthcoming elections. Do you think the people who oppose them will just accept these results and say 'oh well, that's that'? I don't think so and I certainly hope not. A lot of the violence in Europe you speak of is related to people with prejudice believing it's OK to express their feelings in the open, with Le Pen and Wilders fanning those flames in a big way. It's also happening in the UK with lots of minority groups being targeted for racial abuse. Unacceptable.

You also fail to grasp the deeply worrying shift towards the far right, as detailed above - areas of extremism and prejudice that allow white supremesism, opponents of LGBT rights, radical pro-life groups and more - which is scaring the hell out of many of us, me included. Don't tell me this isn't happening because it most certainly is.

Toomilk's post spoke a great deal about this. Both the EU vote and Trump's victory have made being prejudice acceptable. I for one won't accept that and I wouldn't expect anyone with any ounce of decency to do the same.

I have not practiced saying all of the accepted Politically Correct phrases until I myself them believe so well as you. It just exudes; the same "acceptable" verbiage - Very much like having a conversation with a brick with ACME stamped clearly on the face. Pointless; and so I will leave you to Nod in agreement in self righteousness and lack of questioning what is "known".

It appears that some people genuinely believe x,y,z, and others can be bought to do almost anything, most easily those things they would like to do which would otherwise get them arrested; surely there are many people who are not at all thrilled with an election outcome who do not run wild in the streets or pay others to do it for them.

Last edited by semisynthetic on Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

"Everything is a Poison; it is the amount or degree that separates one Poison from another"Paracelsus

runcible wrote:I recall endless criticism of Obama from you when he was President - can you tell me why you didn't just accept his victory as you expect people to accept Trump's?

Toomilk's post spoke a great deal about this. Both the EU vote and Trump's victory have made being prejudice acceptable. I for one won't accept that and I wouldn't expect anyone with any ounce of decency to do the same.

As for accepting Obama as President, there was never any question about it. I never considered burning down other people's property, or smashing an Obama proponent broadsidedly in the head as I saw in this election repeatedly on various news. I argued through my Congressional representatives. Never did I think of a violent or racist act, and that to me would be unacceptable. Never have I seen such uncivilized behaviour after an election here in the USA. If it is normal in Europe, well, that is Europe; and one of many reasons I felt that the EU would fail. Small countries crammed together with so many differences that they annihilated, or tried to, one another off and on throughout history.

As for Toomilk's post, I am of the opinion that racists and bigots will be who they are without the delicacy of asking for permission. Perhaps I was brought up very differently; color meant far less to my grandparents than did actions, color or where one came from meant very little, in fact. When I was VERY young, my grandfather took me to meet a fellow who was born into slavery; and we had more than just a few talks until that fellow died at 106 years of age. He was very against violence - but of course he had lived with it a long time. I have known and had close friends from all over the world, of every color; and I have seen many others I could never be friendly with because of their racist views. But I never knew a true racist who needed permission, or was held back from hatred because it was frowned upon. What Toomilk wrote was a very clear and to my mind reasonable statement of his opinion, and it is laudable, but I do not think a racist person asks "may I"? That is my opinion.

"Everything is a Poison; it is the amount or degree that separates one Poison from another"Paracelsus

semisynthetic wrote:I have not practiced saying all of the accepted Politically Correct phrases until I myself them believe so well as you. It just exudes; the same "acceptable" verbiage - Very much like having a conversation with a brick with ACME stamped clearly on the face. Pointless; and so I will leave you to Nod in agreement in self righteousness and lack of questioning what is "known".

Congratulations. You managed to ignore everything I said & did your best to be rude at the same time. And you completely missed the point. Must feel good...

People hitting each other? The only example I saw was that old male Trump supporter in N.Carolina sucker punch an anti Trump protester at a Trump rally. People are upset like I have never witnessed before in this country. Hence the protests. Mostly peaceful. I for one am glad to see people speak their minds. Democrats and Republicans. It seems this new administration is hellbent on undoing everything Obama did and causing as much chaos in the process.Trump's loose grasp of the truth is extremely alarming. Also I will add embarrassing. Those he chose to fill his cabinet? So much for his campaign promise to "drain the swamp". He just filled it up with the worst people possible in some cases. Sessions, DeVos, Flynn(gone), Mnuchin, Pruitt etc.I will also add what Bannon is doing behind the scenes has led to legitimizing the alt.right, racists, homophobes and anti semites. The statement put out on Holocaust Remembrance day white washing the word Jew out of it for one. I work with the occasional Holocaust survivor and with many children of survivors and that prompted the never again phrase once again. This was done again last week with Trump's lukewarm response when asked about the rising incidents of anti semitism. Or his dumb ass response during his 77 minute unhinged "press conference" to simple question by an orthodox Jewish reporter and his entire answer was about him. Just bizarre. He had no choice after the the St Louis Jewish cemetery was vandalized. I never thought I would say this but thank god for Mike Pence.In an odd way Trump is bringing this country closer together as evidenced by what the St Louis Muslim community did raising funds for the fixing of all the vandalized headstones in the Jewish cemetery. Or the Synagogue in Texas that offered their house of worship to the Muslim community after their Mosque was set on fire by an arsonist.I was on the metro Detroit Jewish Community Center campus when it was evacuated in January because of the bomb threats to JCC's all over the country. It cuts very close to bone for me.I hope and pray whatever investigations are going on behind closed doors reveal what a total scumbag Trump is and his ties to Russia so I dont have to feel like punching the TV screen every time is see his fat orange face.

by runcible » Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:37 amsemisynthetic wrote:I have not practiced saying all of the accepted Politically Correct phrases until I myself them believe so well as you. It just exudes; the same "acceptable" verbiage - Very much like having a conversation with a brick with ACME stamped clearly on the face. Pointless; and so I will leave you to Nod in agreement in self righteousness and lack of questioning what is "known".

Congratulations. You managed to ignore everything I said & did your best to be rude at the same time. And you completely missed the point. Must feel good...

No. I did far from "my best" at being rude; rarely do I have reason to be... I have simply tired of reading the equivalent of the same tape loop of the Politically Correct.It is clear that not a single point I made as simply as possible regarding Sweden and what was shocking to me mattered, for you ignored it. A Government that invites in an influx of people from a societal background as antithetical to the norms of their new "home" was bound to cause trouble. Rather than face what mistakes were made, that same Government puts reporters in prison for simply reporting what they have seen. They "create" blonde pixled photos that are very unlike the criminal who committed terrible crimes; but somehow, that is OK.

Cannot a Too-Far Left Regime be as terrible as a Too-Far Right? But in the USA, we have rights not afforded to the Swedish, and that will not change.

Or is "Too-Far Left" not possible in your vision of Utopia?

Last edited by semisynthetic on Thu Feb 23, 2017 9:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.

"Everything is a Poison; it is the amount or degree that separates one Poison from another"Paracelsus

spzretent wrote:People hitting each other? The only example I saw was that old male Trump supporter in N.Carolina sucker punch an anti Trump protester at a Trump rally.

I saw the footage of the old fellow hitting a protestor, and that was very wrong. But for some months, whamming a Trump supporter from the side was very en vogue. I saw several events across the country when that happened, especially when I was laid up so long with CC Television.

Peaceful Protest is a Guarantee; violence is not. Universities and cities with fires and cars ablaze is not peaceful. I understand why Trump is Unlikable on many fronts; but I abhor violence.

"Everything is a Poison; it is the amount or degree that separates one Poison from another"Paracelsus

semisynthetic wrote:It is clear that not a single point I made as simply as possible regarding Sweden and what was shocking to me mattered, for you ignored it.

I ignored it as you chose to ignore the details of my post. Touché? Perhaps.

You ignore so much of what is relevant in this debate and many people have made very good points on a variety of subjects. You attack someone for reacting to a blatantly Islamaphobic post but ignore the offensive post itself and claim - incredibly - that you didn't actually see it. Instead you were like a dog with a bone and kept on with the same points. I even made a direct reference to the offensive post to you and you barely reacted. I was aghast. You want to see the original quote? Here:

They are worse than animals. They are sub-human cavemen, narrow-minded and willing to kill to defend a pedophile 'prophet'.

How that escaped you is beyond me. That reference to the prophet would cause deep offence to millions and millions of law-abiding, peace-loving Muslims - who far outnumber the Islamic extremists.

And extreme left is practically identical to extreme right - both are wrong in my book and amount to the same thing. You think I am that dumb as to not know that?

rapideye wrote:'YAWN'? and not even one edit? C'mon, Semi, you're not even trying...it's not even in bold FFS. Phone playing up again?

No, the problem is not the this IPhone. This is simply boring and dull. A strange game that I have lost interest in. I was hoping that some sort of conversation would ensue, I am interested in hearing about Sweden and other countries that have changed perhaps not for the best since I was last there.

I watched the young lady become very uneasy at what seemed to be simple questions; I suppose she wanted to go back to Sweden, so she gave these very odd, vague replies that contradicted the Swedish government's own data and clammed up. For such an open society, I thought at least it was so; to jail reporters for clarifying or making specific points asked - she was supposed to be a reporter, but she must not ask what the Swedish Government does not want known about the obvious problem there. I felt sorry for her. It is like a Painter told to paint the Pyramids of Egypt on canvas, only upside down and a color that hides detail.

I know that people are not happy about many things, and Trump makes a great piñata; I saw one of him on TV get broken by little wee ones that were told what to do by parents who did not even bother to put candies in the Piñata. This prolonged holding of breath has become boring. To imagine Blue faces from hypoxia. Or be in some Twilight Era Soap Opera. Boring. Simplistic and less than artful in certain deceits.

But there are other private reasons I yawn. Unfortunately, for other unnecessary reasons.

"Everything is a Poison; it is the amount or degree that separates one Poison from another"Paracelsus

God, this is one helluva toxic thread. Alas, it merely mirrors what US (and world) politics is rapidly becoming: a shitstorm of intolerance, bigotry, hatred and base, venal greed. Semi, your blasé dismissal of the points runcible (and many others) make as mere 'political correctness' is intellectually lazy from a debating point of view and appallingly callous in human terms. What you dismiss are the very real concerns countless millions of people have right now, that:

a) they are somehow second class citizens in 45's USA b) they are no longer welcome in 45's USA c) their safety has been jepoardised in 45's USA d) their lives are in danger in 45's USA

Who are these people? Women, blacks, people of the First Nations, Hispanics, Japanese-Americans, Muslims, the LGBTQ+ community, pro-choice medical practitioners who believe women -aren't- mere vessel "hosts" for baby-carrying and nothing more, poor people who can't afford the medical care they sorely need... I could go on (and no doubt I've missed many demographics here). They're genuinely scared right now because nothing like this has ever happened in their lives. Society has generally progessed to the stage where marginalized people are (reluctantly in most cases) afforded the same rights as good ol' honest white folks and not (well, less) vilified for merely existing. 45 appears to be rolling back all this social progress in favour of fear-based intolerance, bigotry and blanket condemnation of entire demographic groups.

And you think people should just shut up and let 45 and his white supremacist cronies get on with governing? Fuck that shit. Resistance is never futile. Do you have no sympathy whatsoever for any of these people? Can't you put yourself in their place just for a brief fragment of time and think "hang on, I'd be pissed off too right now?" But nah, you're ok because you've got your backwoods ranch and your beloved Arkiv, so all's well with the world. Your preaching about journalism, fact-checking and the like is appallingly tedious and the height of condescension; as if we all live in blissful ignorance of those nasty journalists and the games they play! They gave a PhD in astrophysics to the idiotic likes of me, so I can guarantee first-hand that a doctorate-level education don't make one an Oracle in All Things. Alas semi, the links you post are just as likely to be FAKE NEWS as the links others post, and your academic scientific background doesn't mean we should all bow down and listen to.

Overall, I don't know much about the machinations and true intent behind 45's ill-starred reign, and I'm happy to admit that; hell, I'm not even American! Irrespective of that, I do however know that there are some very very scared people in the US right now, and nobody in 45's government is doing a single thing to calm their citizens' fears. That is beyond appalling. The UK is just as fucked up right now, and I frankly can't be bothered discussing that; this has taken up too much time already.

Semi, in some ways I apologise for the personal attacks contained in this post (I very much hate arguing with people, it stresses me immensely), but what I've said is sadly necessary here. Differences in politics is one thing, but outright indifference to the suffering of millions is to me unconscionable. Your phone appears capable of accessing this forum and finding right-wing news articles, so please, rather than PMing me for trivial details of records I've bought, search google or Discogs. Thank you, and goodnight.

Edit to note that I've been holding my tongue regarding this thread for months now. I didn't want to get involved, for time and emotional reasons, but if there's one thing the last couple of years has shown (as if it weren't obvious already!), it's that silence benefits the oppressor and not the oppressed. Not speaking out lets those you disagree with assume you're on their side. Hence this post. Peace to all concerned and everybody else too, and goodnight again.

It is clear that this topic itself is toxic; bringing out the worst sort of rhetoric and disdain. Although I did not vote for Trump, I can understand why some did; just as I know those who voted like I did, with the hopeless case to be sorted out in 2020. It is a terrible mess. Once again, I thought of the downside of both candidates outweighed any good. I had hoped when Trump did win, he would be closer to Israel than the previous Administration, but now I wonder how genuine that will be. There is a global mess out there, and I can but hope that there are enough good people who will do more than just talk. Ultimately it is the real acts of the individual and those around them that can make the world a better place, or something I'd rather not consider as an outcome, even though that is a luxury we don't have.

"Everything is a Poison; it is the amount or degree that separates one Poison from another"Paracelsus

Excellent post by mc there. As terminology "the 45s" is a bit confusing since I'm in Scotland, and plenty of Twitter users added a 45 button post indyref. I do get what it means though, really using it to introduce the indyref was an incredible example of old school propaganda through the mainstream media outlets - it'd be daft to think media outlets carry no bias indeed. I don't think anyone was surprised that the likes of the Mail or the Express were anti-indy, but liberal outlets such as the Guardian carried even more venom and scare stories at times. A healthy dose of skepticism is very much needed! I actually find RT UK provides a decent source of counter-propaganda to the official BBC/UK lines of thought. Use sparingly and all, and be aware of their own bias obviously...

It's not what is at play today in the US mind you. Wherever the truth lies around Trump's links with Russia, what looks certain is that he certainly seems to get some inspiration from Putin in how he's dealt with the media so far. On that topic, I'd recommend everyone watch Adam Curtis's HyperNormalisation: https://archive.org/details/HyperNormalisation. It has its flaws for sure (failing to mention the advertising industry when talking of the internet and feedback loops struck me in particular) as it builds a narrative from so many events. And real life isn't simple narratives. But there is a lot of interesting information there, especially about Putin and the media. And going back to narratives, people are susceptible to simple narratives as they help them make sense of an increasingly complex world, which partly helps explain Brexit and Trump. But the next step appears to be, once in power, no simple narrative anymore, just so much BS and downright contradictions (fake news but real leaks...) until people stop even trying to make sense of it.

Btw the extreme right and extreme left meet on a lot of social issues by being anti-liberal and authoritarian. But it's not social issues that have made so many people discontent, it's economic neo-liberalism, and the dirty trick here is that the extreme right can be even more neo-liberal than the old school right (and American and UK "left") while presenting social liberalism as the problem.Trump's certainly demonstrating that already - for all the talk of protectionism and American jobs, his first decisions are all about industry deregulation.

"Despite the fact that the number of immigrants in Sweden has increased since the 1990s, exposure to violent crimes has declined," and "research shows that there is no evidence to indicate that immigration leads to increased crime."

simonkeeping wrote:"Despite the fact that the number of immigrants in Sweden has increased since the 1990s, exposure to violent crimes has declined," and "research shows that there is no evidence to indicate that immigration leads to increased crime."

Sure. I would not want common sense, logic or 1st hand information to destroy such delusions pushed by the EU and the Swedish Government. The last "nothing to see here" reporter to "prove the safety of" Sweden needs armed escorts. Sounds like a very Peaceful place. How often does a government admit it has made a huge mistake? Why are so many fearful of "the Right Wing" in EU countries taking power if there was not a reason people had, as some last resort, turned to them?

Believe what you will. It is apparently very difficult to a abandon an Implanted viewpoint. Micky Mao was, sadly, right about that; and post USSR released KGB manuals describe this method of mind-control. Stupid people. How can such an influx of such numbers of persons from a societal norm so very different that it is antithetical to a place like Sweden NOT cause trouble? It is not all flowers and balloons and puppy dogs, Idealism is very sweet, but the reality of such naiveté is short lived and easily shown to be terribly flawed.

"Everything is a Poison; it is the amount or degree that separates one Poison from another"Paracelsus

simonkeeping wrote:"Despite the fact that the number of immigrants in Sweden has increased since the 1990s, exposure to violent crimes has declined," and "research shows that there is no evidence to indicate that immigration leads to increased crime."

Sure. I would not want common sense, logic or 1st hand information to destroy such delusions pushed by the EU and the Swedish Government. The last "nothing to see here" reporter to "prove the safety of" Sweden needs armed escorts. Sounds like a very Peaceful place. How often does a government admit it has made a huge mistake? Why are so many fearful of "the Right Wing" in EU countries taking power if there was not a reason people had, as some last resort, turned to them?

Believe what you will. It is apparently very difficult to a abandon an Implanted viewpoint. Micky Mao was, sadly, right about that; and post USSR released KGB manuals describe this method of mind-control. Stupid people. How can such an influx of such numbers of persons from a societal norm so very different that it is antithetical to a place like Sweden NOT cause trouble? It is not all flowers and balloons and puppy dogs, Idealism is very sweet, but the reality of such naiveté is short lived and easily shown to be terribly flawed.

I present facts and I am called naive and stupid.

If you click on the links you'll see that one is from the BBC who have no history as far as I'm aware of using KGB mind control (aside from the now famous episode of Blue Peter in 1983) nor do they have any connection to the Swedish Government. They are actual facts. Not something I read on Breitbart:

From what I understand from your strange rant you seem to be under the impression that immigration is bad as people from a differing place/religion etc cannot live together with ‘western values’. I live in London - Another place Trump said had ‘no go areas”. Remember that? London, my home doesn’t have no go areas, places the police don’t go for fear of being attacked by the ’The Radical Muslims’. Yes, London has places of poverty and increased social tension but the fact remains trump was lying, he made it up. Yet again.

As it was a very easily disprovable lie he had to back track. But, He said something and for a large majority of people who don’t watch the news everyday so wouldn’t have seen him back-track they took that lie as the truth. Once a lie is out there it’s got a life of its own. As in, even if they did see him back-track they are dug in. They have made a decision regardless of the facts presented to them to believe that lie as it fits into there blinkered world view. A view which says that anyone different from them is a threat, so it's probably true. Actually you know what, it's definitely true - It's just the lefty snowflakes want us to think 'everything's okay'!! He's just the only one brave enough to say it etc etc...

There are over 300 different languages are spoken in London. That gives you some idea of the level of immigration here. In my street there’s the guys from india in the local shop, The polish girls serve me my coffee at the cafe, the Italians, Eastern Europeans, Africans chat to me and my family me in the pub, theres the muslim girls in sainsburys who are really lovely, the local Butcher who’s Australian. Thats within 10 metres of my house. I walk past the church, the mosque, I see all the guys/women (depending on the day) turning up for prayers. I chat to the old Jamaican guy on the bus, theres the muslim police officer (she’s a woman - controversial) in Oxford Street tube station. In my wifes group of mum friends out of 6 couples I was the only ‘English’ person. Brazilian, Finish, Kiwi, Czech etc etc… One of her best friends is from Saudi and she had her baby in Spain. My next door neighbours are Russian on one side and French on the other. In my little office of 10 people I work with Italians, a Bulgarian, a German, a Kazakhstanian, Americans, a South African, my colleagues family are all Mxican. So far it all seems to be okay? Will let you know if it changes.

Back to Sweden - Let me break this down further for you. Donald Trump is the president of the United States of America. That makes him the most powerful man in the country, possibly the world. Now this might just be me but I don't think he should be basing his speeches on something ‘he saw on TV’. That is best left to people who are short of conversation at a bar (which, incidentally is his style of talking - a man in a bar who’s had too many). If you are a head of state saying something In the public forum about another nation I think it’s always best to make sure it is. A. True.B. Something which can be backed up with actual facts.

Syria and Yemen, are as close to a living hell as is possible to be whilst still on this planet. WE, I, you, have literally no comprehension what it must be like. None. full stop. Kids being blown up in schools, buried alive. Children of 4 who have no family living on the streets. People being blown up in hospital, those who aren’t might make it but the lack of medical supplies and electricity will take their toll. People scraping whats left of their family up and putting it in a carrier bag. This isn't flowers, puppy dogs and balloons as you so patronisingly put it. People are in hell. Terrifying, unending hell. They don’t suffer any less because they are a different race. They don’t morn any less because they are a different religion. It’s a complete and utter destruction of life and hope. If some of the people who have had to survive this (I won;t use to the word live as it's not life, it's survival) end up living in Sweden, good, great! I hope they welcomed with open arms into safety and security. I know most refugees want to return home when they are able. If there is anything to go back to.

And it also shows that the West aren't in agreement with ISIS, that we are better than that. That we can take those damaged by war/suffering and offer them a safe place to live. That we actually want multiculturalism and not building walls and barriers to other cultures and beliefs.

This quote from you is terrifying: Why are so many fearful of "the Right Wing" in EU countries taking power if there was not a reason people had, as some last resort, turned to them?

I have noticed in reading UK & EU papers that in any comments conflicting with the "acceptable" view are rants; how very open minded and fashionable.

Trump never referred to any "terrorist attack" in Sweden; the "Guardian" tacked that line on, as did other papers I read. The comments I made were not ad hominem barbs towards simonkeeping, or any (specific person); mine were general comments towards the Swedish Government, "alleged journalists" and some of the more rabid quotations I came across by EU representatives supporting a more sordid sort of Idealism than I see on this page.

If you do not know "where to start" with a comment, perhaps it was best that you did not try.

Below is a short(er) video than the last one I placed; it is far from Ideal, but the first few minutes do refute this "terrorism" business that was never claimed by Trump regarding Sweden. Assimilating into a new country is essential for everyone concerned; and it is a good thing, but Sweden is not doing a very good job at all of doing this. The Officials and Government workers in Sweden live in more costly areas that are 98% Very White, while pushing their agenda on those who cannot afford to live as they do, but imprison journalists for "hate thought" (or a contrary opinion or reporting what they have learned or seen first hand). Their immigration policy, if there is one, is a haphazard and poorly thought out venture that hurts their country, their people, and the immigrants.

Anyone may err in speaking. Trump is far from the usual eloquent, well oiled political hot air machine, which can be argued, many people found this somehow refreshing; having become simply tired of smooth talk and not intending to getting much of anything accomplished BUT talking while speaking well. It is very easy to make mistakes - e.g. those from Kazakhstan, are generally referred to as Kazakhstanis, as Afghanis are from Afghanistan; and Mexico usually has an "e", but these very types of trivialities drive the media into the frenzies we too often see made into something much greater than than really are.

Even in print, there is no mention of "Terrorist Attacks" like those printed in the Guardian..

Last edited by semisynthetic on Mon Mar 06, 2017 6:22 pm, edited 3 times in total.

"Everything is a Poison; it is the amount or degree that separates one Poison from another"Paracelsus

“We’ve got to keep our country safe. You look at what’s happening in Germany, you look at what’s happening last night in Sweden.”

“Sweden, who would believe this? Sweden. They took in large numbers. They’re having problems like they never thought possible. You look at what’s happening in Brussels. You look at what’s happening all over the world. Take a look at Nice. Take a look at Paris.”

My comment about not knowing where to start was in response to you saying: Why are so many fearful of "the Right Wing" in EU countries taking power if there was not a reason people had, as some last resort, turned to them?

Why? Because, Europe doesn't have a great history with regard to the right wing does it.

Only you can decide to believe "your lying ears" or not. If a speech is available, I personally prefer the speech; intonations and expressions not possible with the written word are a clearer indication of what point was likely intended.

I would suggest that at this point in time the Left has not been so very great for Europe, either. What Heresy!

"Everything is a Poison; it is the amount or degree that separates one Poison from another"Paracelsus

I hope Simon doesn't leave, but sadly he's not the first due to the increasingly malignant presence of one man and his Arkiv.

I would have locked this thread a while back to be honest, but some of heartfelt replies have been tremendous.

Where we go from here I'm not sure, but if I was a first time visitor to this site I would leave quickly due to the increasingly toxic stench of reproachable right-wing mania, written in the most tedious and verbose style imaginable - with Satan's own grammar rules.