linking into waylands cider topic, I used to make wine, (up until I became ill 3 years ago) I once made a blackberry wine, and must have left it a day or so long during the first aggressive fermentation period, as it turned to vinegar. I thought "sod it" its all in now, I had a spare demijon so I put it through it 2nd fermentation, and left it to work itself out.When I tried it, it had a lovely flavour, real blackberry coming through, but boy was it dry. Made your mouth pucker with every drop. I couldn't drink it, but a mate loved dry wine so I gave him a bottle, he totally loved it, drank all 5 bottles (over time) he said that without the sweetness you could really taste the fruit.

As for cider, I cannot drink it, ever since I got drunk on woodpecker when I was about 13, cant even stand the smell of it. (mind you, I am on so many different meds I cant drink at all now)

Monst, sorry to hear that your health doesn't allow you to drink, but the stuff that made you drunk (Woodpecker) when you were 13 was not cider. Woodpecker, Strongbow, Magners, Bulmers etc bear no relation whatever to real cider.

I have four gallons of Elderberry wine on the go. The few local trees yielded the best crop that I have seen. I now use that "Turbo" yeast which is impressive stuff. As to the commercial brands of Cider listed. These are most definitely not the real thing as Sean stated above. This is not to say that they are not an unpleasant drink on a hot summers day, they are, but nothing like traditional farmhouse Cider. " Thank God" I hear some say . I usually make two brews. "Bogside Rough Old B*****d" (very dry and makes you close one eye but leave the other open) and "Bogside Red Eye" ( dry with a red tinge and fruity taste ) The Alc runs out at 6 - 9 % respectively. The "Rough" is finished but the "Red Eye" is still festering away.