Transcript: Heterocyclic Amines in Eggs, Cheese, and Creatine?

More than 20 heterocyclic amines have been reported in cooked meats, fish, and poultry prepared under common house-hold cooking conditions. To reduce one's exposure to these cooked meat carcinogens one could of course eat vegetarian, --or even just refrain from eating meat for 24 hours and the levels of the two chief heterocyclic amines drop to zero. So if you practice Meatless Mondays, by Tuesday morning the levels of PhIP and MeIQx, one the most potent mutagens ever tested, become N.D. undetectable. Now for a third cooked meat carcinogen, they actually did find some in a few folks—even though they hadn't eaten meat for a day. That perplexed the researchers. Now the four subjects that had quantifiable amounts of IQ4,5-b which is an isomer of the powerful animal carcinogen IQ in their urine after refraining from meat consumption had each eaten cheese and/or boiled eggs as part of their diet while abstaining from cooked meats. IQ and several other heterocyclic amines have been reported in fried eggs, so it's plausible that IQ- [4,5-b], which forms at temperatures well below 100 °C and may be present in boiled eggs or possibly other foods containing creatine, such as cheese. That brought up an interesting point, though. What about all the Dietary supplementation of creatine by sports enthusiasts; they speculate that high consumption of creatine could result in the formation of genotoxic heterocyclic amines in the body," a cautionary note for both meateaters and vegetarians alike. A similar finding was reported in a study comparing the levels of the cooked meat carcinogen PhIP growing out in people's hair . "It was detected in hair samples of all six of the meat-eaters they tested but was detected in one of the six vegetarians.” Now it was low, just above the kind of level of detection, so they kind of dismissed it, suggesting that exposure occurs primarily through the consumption of cooked meats or poultry and that nonmeat-derived sources of exposure are probably negligible. But not if you smoke. Even if you ate meatless Mondays all the way through meatless Sundays, you can still be exposed smoking cigarettes . Here's a measure of phip exposure in smoking meat eaters (rise up from bottom line), nonsmoking meateaters, smoking vegetarians, and nonsmoking vegetarians. So it's not enough to just eat healthy.

To see any graphs, charts, graphics, images, and quotes to which Dr. Greger may be referring watch the above video. This is just an approximation of the audio contributed by Jonathan Hodgson.

“There is little data on the toxicological properties of IQ[4,5-b], and the potential risk of this HAA for human health is unknown. IQ[4,5-b] is mutagenic in the Ames reversion assay in strain TA98 in the presence of liver S9 obtained from polychlorinated biphenyl pretreated rats and a more potent mutagen in tester strain YG1024 (47).”

guest

“A number of HAAs have been reported to induce tumors at multiple sites in experimental ANIMALS (5−8). Several HAAs have been identified in human urine following the consumption of cooked meats, indicating that HAAs are readily absorbed from the gastrointestinal tract (9−11). Human tissues metabolically activate HAAs to genotoxins (12, 13), and some EPIDEMIOLOGICAL investigations have linked the frequent consumption of foods such as grilled meats containing HAAs with an elevated risk of colon and breast cancer (14−16).” In other words not once have HAA’s been proven to cause tumour growth in humans or increase mortality rates through randomized clinical trials.

Coacervate

Nor has it been proven that a person, committed to satisfying their unreasonable addictions, was swayed by a reasonable argument.

guest

If by “unreasonable addictions” you mean a physiological need then yes. Its just one reason why vegetarians and vegans end up giving up and eating meat.

ted

SOME vegetarians and vegans end up giving up and start eating meat again because we live in meat-centered culture–not because of physiological needs. If humans had a physiological need for meat, then there would be few, if any, lifelong vegetarians and vegans.

ted

As far as I can determine, not once have smoking cigarettes been directly PROVEN to cause lung cancer in humans. This is not because smoking cigarettes does not cause lung cancer in humans, it’s because of limitations in study designs. I think the critique you just provided falls into a similar category.

guest

“cigarette smoking is one of those activities that was so patently dangerous, it returned risk ratios so powerful researchers knew it was highly unlikely the findings were due to chance or confounding from other potentially carcinogenic factors. Not to mention that this powerful risk relationship was backed by a totally non-brainer hypothesis: People who fill their lungs with toxic gases for years on end will be more likely to get sick. Duh.”

ted

Using your argument I’ll say that people who fill their bodies with toxic materials (edible food-like substances) for years on end will be more likely to get sick. “Duh.” Don’t forget, years ago what you NOW call a “no-brainer” hypothesis,” was to many a novel “idea” that was rejected out of hand as having no merit. Seems silly now that smoking was ever considered a safe practice. I’m guessing that in 20-40 yrs it will seem silly that a meat-centered diet was ever considered a safe thing to practice.

Gary Loewenthal

I’m a healthy ethical vegan, but it’s a fair question IMHO. However…

– We can often find out compelling, potentially life-saving dietary information from population and in vitro studies, especially if there is a preponderance of such studies and they’re basically well-formed. It’s difficult to conduct 100% controlled clinical trials on every aspect of diet.

– A related video on this site, http://nutritionfacts.org/video/meat-fumes-dietary-secondhand-smoke/, has some human-focused research. Not a “gold standard” study in which some people were secretly subjected to meat fumes (you’d run into ethical problems there), but enough to make you wary of breathing that stuff in, much less cooking it. Often, where there’s smoke, there’s fire.

Ashland Lindy

What about smoke from incense? As harmful as cigarette for these toxins?

James

Typo in sentence above video and email.. though = through. ?

http://nutritionfacts.org/ Michael Greger M.D.

Thank you James! Corrected.

Anytime anyone sees an error please also email me directly so I can correct it ASAP: mhg1@cornell.edu

luvmypug

How much protein can one absorb in one sitting?

http://www.DonForresterMD.com/ Don Forrester MD

Protein is broken down into its smaller component amino acids in the stomach and intestine. They are well absorbed. Infants can absorb intact proteins but in adults we are less likely to do that unless the intestinal tract is damaged. So as adults we don’t directly absorb protein but seem to be able to readily absorb amino acids. Alot of confusion about protein how much and quality and for specific populations like body builders or endurance athletes. At this point data supports it would be very hard not to meet your needs if you consume adequate calories. The best three articles that are well referenced science based are three articles in Dr. John McDougall’s monthly newsletters available for free on his website. The dates are 12/03, 4/07 & 1/04. There seems to be good data to support not increasing our protein intake above our needs since we can’t store it and the liver and kidneys have to metabolize and eliminate the excess. There is also good data to support getting our protein from plant over animal sources. Stay tuned to NutritionFacts.org as the science keeps coming…

sf_jeff

Should we be surprised you have an email that sounds like a bio-marker? jk

abeleehane

Your mention of (supplemental)creatine referred only to a speculation that was not tested on anyone. I would be interested in sources of subsequent testing on vegans supplementing with creatine and possibly Creapure creatine( a German made product claimed to be devoid of any contaminant.)

http://www.facebook.com/marcus.dredge Marcus Dredge

What is the specific “high” daily dose of creatine that may be problematic?