Ron Paul in 2015 "I support black lives matter"

I support the black lives matter movement. I have long advocated an end to the drug war, police militarization, and other threats to liberty that disproportionately victimize African-Americans. However, I wish some of the black lives matter movement’s passion and energy was directed to ending abortion. Unborn black lives also matter.

Note that later Ron Paul went on to criticize the Black Lives Matter organization for its socialist agenda. But he was early on board with the idea that there is an alarming increase in police brutality and African Americans are disproportionately affected.

I will now return this forum to its regularly scheduled Trump worship and right wing identity politics.

"I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

"We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

"It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul

Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.

Originally Posted by osan

The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

I support the black lives matter movement. I have long advocated an end to the drug war, police militarization, and other threats to liberty that disproportionately victimize African-Americans. However, I wish some of the black lives matter movement’s passion and energy was directed to ending abortion. Unborn black lives also matter.

Note that later Ron Paul went on to criticize the Black Lives Matter organization for its socialist agenda. But he was early on board with the idea that there is an alarming increase in police brutality and African Americans are disproportionately affected.

I will now return this forum to its regularly scheduled Trump worship and right wing identity politics.

Ron takes the right approach. Praise them for the good things they do (or, if they actually do no good things, for what one could take them to be trying to do on the most generous interpretation of their actions), and condemn the bad. It's strongly reminiscent of how Rand handles (and emphasize the word handles) Trump.

"The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

-Ludwig von Mises

"Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

-Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

"All the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre — the man who can most adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum. The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

"I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

"We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

"It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul

Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.

Originally Posted by osan

The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

Ron takes the right approach. Praise them for the good things they do (or, if they actually do no good things, for what one could take them to be trying to do on the most generous interpretation of their actions), and condemn the bad. It's strongly reminiscent of how Rand handles (and emphasize the word handles) Trump.

On which part? The Trump worship or the right wing identity politics? We have both. Not the majority mind you, but a vocal minority.

Perhaps I've misunderstood, but (per the Bannon bet thread) I took it that you denied that that camp was about racial identity politics.

"The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

-Ludwig von Mises

"Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

-Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

"All the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre — the man who can most adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum. The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

I was too. As I was regarding Occupy. BLM and Occupy were both COINTEL/INFIL really quickly and in retrospect may have been created, much like ANTIFA.

I am a fan of civil disobedience. I think the Bundy's were absolutely right in Bunkerville, but absolutely wrong in Malhuer. But, there comes a point where you realize that it is not organic anymore and it is being controlled.

Theye have refused their Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

Theye have erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

Theye kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies

Theye have combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution,

For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

For cutting off our Trade with parts of the world:

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

Theye plundered and destroyed the lives of our people.

Theye are at this time transporting Armies of Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy of a civilized nation.

I was too. As I was regarding Occupy. BLM and Occupy were both COINTEL/INFIL really quickly and in retrospect may have been created, much like ANTIFA.

I am a fan of civil disobedience. I think the Bundy's were absolutely right in Bunkerville, but absolutely wrong in Malhuer. But, there comes a point where you realize that it is not organic anymore and it is being controlled.

My thing is this, if something is at a certain level of bad, I disregard the good they do and will not support them. Take for example, the neocons may sometimes want to kill terrorists trying to harm me(which is good) but I would never give them credit for anything because I think the bad they overwhelms the good.

This is the same way I see BLM, Stefan Molyneux, Alex Jones (probably explains why Ron Paul still gives that conman the time of day) etc etc.

You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power.Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

Originally Posted by LibertyEagle

Trust principles; not people.

My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.

I'm sure he did and does as a matter of principle and not just as a slogan sometimes also used by some politicians to cultivate/promote tribalism, political agenda.

BLM is a subset of ALM and individual subsets can be highlighted in the proper context to make a point, raise awareness etc. I'm certain his view of BLM/ALM is going to be much more logically consistent and libertarian principled in contrast to say someone like SWC "every stance based on political calculus" Hillary or someone like DGP Obama.

Related

Shaun King
October 8, 2016 Dear Harvey Weinstein and The Weinstein Company, please tell us what you meant in this email to Hillary when you said you wanted to "silence" the Black Lives Matter Movement.
Also, explain your plan to pit the victims of Sandy Hook against victims of police brutality.
We need to know. https://theintercept.com/…/harvey-weinstein-urged-clinton-…/

“There are always risks in challenging excessive police power, but the risks of not challenging it are more dangerous, even fatal.”
—Hunter S. Thompson, Kingdom of Fear: Loathsome Secrets of a Star-Crossed Child in the Final Days of the American Century

These shootings are occurring with such frequency now that they are quickly forgotten, lost in the morass of similarly heartbreaking, tragic incidents. It was barely a month ago, for example, that police in Washington, DC, shot and killed 34-year-old Miriam Carey after she collided with a barrier leading to the White House, then fled when pursued by a phalanx of gun-wielding police and cop cars. Carey’s 1-year-old daughter was in the backseat. Seventeen gun shots later, Carey was dead and her toddler motherless. It was what is known as a “bad shoot.” As James Mulvaney, a professor of law and police science, explains: “A ‘good shoot’ in police lingo is one in which officers use deadly force to prevent a suspect from inflicting serious harm. A ‘bad shoot’ is one in which there might have been a nonlethal alternative.”

How should we as a society respond when we hear about the Las Vegas police officer who shot an unarmed man at a convenience store whom he “thought” was a homicide suspect, or the Los Angeles cop who shot an unarmed man seen leaving a convenience store where an ATM had been robbed of $40 or the DC cops who killed a young mother in a hail of gunfire? As John Grant notes for Counterpunch: “The ignominious and unnecessary public killing of Miriam Carey should be a human marker that triggers our cultural meaning machine to honestly consider what’s wrong with the picture of a howling pack of cops shooting down a troubled young mother … like a dog.”

If ever there were a time to de-militarize and de-weaponize local police forces, it’s now. The same goes for scaling back on the mindset adopted by cops that they are the law and should be revered, feared and obeyed. As for the idea that citizens must be compliant or risk being treated like lawbreakers, that’s nothing more than authoritarianism with a badge. As Grant points out: “As the public killing of Miriam Carey should make clear, a significant part of the problem is cops and the pack mentality they too often resort to.

BLM was originally just something people started saying because a lot of people were victims of police brutality and were being killed on the streets for seemingly doing nothing but being at the wrong place at the wrong time. If it were lions getting shot people would say lions life's matter. Ron Paul will talk about whatever subject he thinks is hot or popular at the time, and even suggest he agrees to certain aspects of what the confused people are asking for even though they can't articulate or understand it- at the root which is liberty. Ron Paul translated: Yes I agree with BLM on the sentiment that we have to fight for liberty, for the dream, so that we may hope to live it some day.

When Molyneux comes out with reality v10.06., explaining it all as an Xd chess move, they'll be back to regurgitate it at us.

"The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

-Ludwig von Mises

"Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

-Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

"All the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre — the man who can most adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum. The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

I disagree with this premise to a certain extent. Because in emphasizing the racial aspect you are contravening the very core of what the concern is supposed to rectifying. There should not be a BET, Congressional Black Caucus, affirmative action, BLM, etc. There is just discrimination, it is black and white. Individual racism, ethnic stereotyping, and caricaturing is not something that can just be legislated away--it is just part of nature to want remain within one's own flock, so to speak.

Making the focus of the debate about black versus government is not correct, it is government versus individuality that is the crux of the matter.

“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding one’s self in the ranks of the insane.” — Marcus Aurelius

"The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

-Ludwig von Mises

"Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

-Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

"All the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre — the man who can most adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum. The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

kinda the way I saw 'em initially, 'til their agenda took an ugly turn.

Who is this "they" though?

No doubt there are people who say, "black lives matter," who have ugly agendas. But there are other people who say, "black lives matter," who do not.

The thing about the slogan, "black lives matter," is that it's a true statement. Moreover, it's a statement that is too widely disbelieved, at least implicitly if not explicitly, as evidenced by a number of things that I shouldn't need to recite but could if need be, and so one that deserves to be reinforced by way of reminder.

If it appears to be the case that the population of those who say, "black lives matter," is too heavily weighted toward people with ugly agendas, then it seems to me that the best course we who believe that black lives do matter and who do not have ugly agendas can follow is for ourselves to be more diligent to say, "black lives matter," so as to recalibrate that imbalance and have the "black lives matter" slogan come to be more associated with us who do not have ugly agendas than it is with those who do.

I disagree with this premise to a certain extent. Because in emphasizing the racial aspect you are contravening the very core of what the concern is supposed to rectifying. There should not be a BET, Congressional Black Caucus, affirmative action, BLM, etc. There is just discrimination, it is black and white. Individual racism, ethnic stereotyping, and caricaturing is not something that can just be legislated away--it is just part of nature to want remain within one's own flock, so to speak.

Making the focus of the debate about black versus government is not correct, it is government versus individuality that is the crux of the matter.

But, it does serve the gov agenda to have people separated, classified, and fighting amongst themselves. Takes everyone's eye off of the Big Picture and what gov goals really are.

No doubt there are people who say, "black lives matter," who have ugly agendas. But there are other people who say, "black lives matter," who do not.

Originally Posted by Superfluous Man

I believe that black lives matter and I support the things he agrees with.

Does someone else who doesn't support those things get to say that they're the only person who believes that black lives matter or something?

I have not seen one person who has been affiliated with the group espouse anything remotely close to views that relate to freedom. However, I have read their platform thoroughly, listened to their most visible spokesman Deray Mckesson, and seen how people associated with the group behave. Communism, looting, and stopping traffic aren't just differences of opinion. They are clearly wrong and anyone who supports them is wrong.

It isn't a matter of a couple of bad apples. Just like there are no good white supremacists and Nazis, there are no good Black Lives Matter members.