to this exchange with lindsey graham. >> name one person who is intimidated by the israeli lobby intheu.s. senate.>> the use of intimidation -- i should have used influence. >> he could not name one person publicly. this is gamesmanship of the first order. you have conversations with plenty members of congress, and they feel one way about some of the issues in the middle east and feel they simply cannot move an inch on questions involving israel. >> is chuck hagel in command of the issues that he will be grappling with here? >> i do not think anybody would have come off well. it was a halting performance by chuck hagel, and chuck hagel, to underline what nina said earlier, is not a verbally- nimble person. he is not known for sound bites, not somebody that you go to if you want a quotation on a deadline. he will give you thought full context. >> god forbid. [laughter] >> more than anything else, i could not get over the back during quality. yes or no, yes or no, senator. john mccain was looking for vindication for the surge. chuck hagel was not going to give it to him. >> john mccain is not the

in the u. may have to go to the back of thee line, but yoyou are waiting intheu.s., legalintheu.s., workingin the u.s., you have everything you want having arrived the other guys are waiting in brazil and hong kong. the line here is one where you are already in the united states. >> charles is right about that but that is the point, getting rid of the shadow economy, the shadowow estence. getting these folks on the path to citizenship. if you know anybody who has been here initially illegally, youu know even when they get a green card, their entirire existence is devoted to getting citizenship. a green card is not their only desire. >> what about senator sessions' point about thehe unlawful flow of people into the country? >> the way we always have, and we have got much better. if you look at the n numbers of people who are caught at t -- some of this petition is due to the economy but a great deal of it is not. you just have to look to the resources we have put in and the successes. at som point, it is case of diminishing returns. you cannot makit like east berlin on the border.