Gary Numan Digest Thu, 24 Feb 2000 Volume 2 : Issue 15
Today's Topics:
"I'm great, me..."
"Nu"-Man added to our world
> OT: New Kraftwerk? and other stuff
Another musical coincidence?
in defense of gary's designs
isn't it ironic
I stand corrected
kraftwerk, expo 2000 and official websites
misdirected attribution in last Digest
My two cents
S.U.
Sleep By Windows?????
STILL Top
Telekon
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 20:38:42 -0000
From: "Phil Marsh"
Subject: "I'm great, me..."
To: digest@garynumanfan.nu
Jim "wotagreatguyiam" Napier wrote (amongst other self
congratulatory guff):-
>I get so many positive e-mails, it's easy to dismiss whining by
>people who don't even have the decency to speak to me privately >first. You are a miniscule minority.
If that was the case, he wouldn't have been quite so bugged about
myself and Jeff both passing comment on his practices... As it is,
he is so selfless and generous with his time and money, he is
beyond criticism, as he says himself:-
>And not even Gary ran his fan club internationally until I already >had for 7 years.
Maybe someone will point out to Gary the debt he so clearly owes
Mr Napier next time they see him...
>North American Gary Numan Fan Club (1989 - ?)
Which forgets to mention the years he disappeared altogether in
that time. He posted only a few years ago saying how he was back
after several years' absence... But why let the truth get in the way
of another self congratulatory line, eh?
I held off responding to his insults as I thought I'd wait and see if
anyone came forward to support what he said about what a great
service he provided, and how great the NAGNFC was. The silence
was deafening.
>Where were all you armchair critics then as I lost a fortune >bringing Numanoids together from 4 continents?
Is that all us "armchair critics" who "are a miniscule minority"?
When criticised (rightly) for profiteering on the sale of bootlegs, his
only comment is:-
>For those who hadn't thought to make items available first, that's
>okay, I understand your pain.
Err..yeah, right...very mature response that was; oh but maybe
that's him being lighthearted, eh?
And (hopefully) finally:-
> I have reasoned and hung on by my fingertips on this wild and >utterly negative ride but I see no reason not to jump off.
He got two posts on the Digest passing a few negative comments.
Hardly a "wild and negative ride". He responded with bile, ignoring
the criticisms he couldn't answer, personal insults and yet more
self congratulation. And now he's going. Goodness, how WILL we
all manage without him...
I hope he remembers to shut the door on his way out.
Phil
(phil.marsh@ndirect.co.uk)
http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~phil.marsh
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 12:26:54 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael Tressler
Subject: "Nu"-Man added to our world
To: digest@garynumanfan.nu
Hello everyone!
My wife gave birth to our second son two weeks ago
today. Gregory Michael weighed in at 7 lbs 11 oz.
Won't be long till I'm rocking him to sleep by
"Slowcar To China". Actually, I should make a tape of
Gary's lighter stuff to play for the kids. "The
Lighter Side of Numan". I like it.
Mike
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 23:00:50 EST
From: "jon glass"
Subject: > OT: New Kraftwerk? and other stuff
To: digest@garynumanfan.nu
>
>Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 15:06:23 +0000
>From: Dryad
>Subject: OT: New Kraftwerk?
>To: digest@garynumanfan.nu (Gary Numan)
>brand:new on MTV UK has been screening this video, the very beginning of
>which
>I keep missing, so don't know who does the song, but it walks, talks,
>heck,
>practically smells like Kraftwerk. So, my question is, does anyone know if
>this is Kraftwerk, and if so, from what cd?
>
>Thankee
>
>Clea
yeah, kraftwerk just put out a new single called "expo2000" but i dont think
theres a video for it, though there may be, i doubt if they'll be an album
coming anytime soon, but there are always rumors...who knows? its kraftwerk!
AND for those of you wanting to get your friends into NUMAN ive found that
dance is the best starter out of all of them. for those of us too lazy to
make a mix tape that is. i cant really define why, but its seemed to be ALL
of my friends favorite numan album of all time, which makes me wonder why it
is that most people on the digest still feel telekon is the best, i always
thought of dance as telekon + 10.
and about that I ASSASSIN reissue, i say just remix EVERYTHING, put it to cd
and make a BOX SET out of it :) (like rhino did with the stooges funhouse
album! did anyone see that? 7cds of 10 songs, some 14 hours of nothing but
that album!) me, being into full session recordings and things like that, i
would love to hear something like that from numan.
well bye for now.
"ill forget who you are, ill foget one of these days. cry the, clock said."
jon glass
you must check out my band:
http://leosoperation.hompage.com
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 22:28:01 -0800
From: Derek Langsford
Subject: Another musical coincidence?
To: digest@GaryNumanFan.NU
I have not seen this one mentioned here yet.
I have owned the Sisters of Mercy's "Floodland" album for years but have
not listened to it for a long time. Still, upon seeing their Greatest Hits
CD offered by Sister Ray for a great price for an import, I thought I'd
expand my SoM catalogue.
Quelle surprise upon hearing the intro of the opening track "Under the
Gun." Is this another case of coincidence? Gary has long touted his
fondness for SoM. Was it conscious or unconscious? The Extended Dominion
Day has suddenly lost some of its originality :-(
Thanks to Benjamin for the pointers to GEMM. I hope a deleted CD to fill a
whole in my (non-Numan) collection is on its way from Germany.
Derek
San Diego, CA
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 06:52:54 -0800
From: awa
Subject: in defense of gary's designs
To: digest@garynumanfan.nu
gary designed "i, assassin." it's not flawless and it's not perfect,
college-educated design work but it's nice. he has a good eye for
design a lot of the time. a lot the time he doesn't.
he's got a good eye and a good ear.
i liked his work on the cover of "dark light" as well. it was simple
and interesting, there was not a lot of clutter and fab graphics
techniques being flexed all over the place to be sure. so, to my eyes,
it made for a very attractive, simple and clean CD cover. but, then
again, i love the aesthetics of the movie "thx1138."
i remember as a kid my all-time favorite pic of any pop star was the one
on the cover of the "complex" single. now, there's a cover!
those photos of him from a session involving watery shadows near the end
of the '80s were very effective and true to a numanesque aesthetic too.
what record was that? i can't remember right now. was it a 12" single
from "new anger"? there's this photo of him with bright blue in the
background and watery shadows and he's got his possessed, glowing eyes
look going on.
"exile" is just fine, too. we're not going to slag that one are we? as
tom gorham wrote in the sunday, 2/20, digest, the last covers haven't
featured "our gary" on them and this is a nice trend. we all know what
he looks like when he's posing and he's wearing lipstick in the mid
'80s. these new, shadowy photos are a positive step and look like the
music sounds. i liked the pic of him on the "sacrifice" COVER but not
the pics inside the booklet of that CD, all tight-fitting leather and
huge german crucifixes. the pic of him inside the "exile" booklet,
however, is great.
he's doing what he wants again and here's to hoping the designs will
just keep getting more and more interesting. maybe in the
not-too-distant future, he will incorporate some photos, some designs of
a more abstract nature that have nothing to do with people and their
faces. for me, it would be a dream come true. i hope he's picked up a
copy of kraftwerk's "expo 2000" single.
here's to this endless electric cocktail party!
thanks,
a.w.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 11:13:24 -0600
From: Valerie Iglar-Mobley
Subject: isn't it ironic
To: The Gary Digest
> His ranting (on his website and in Alien) are pathetic. Get over it.
> Either ignore the comments or, if they are many and frequent maybe you
> should take them to heart because your fans are putting the food on
> your table and there will come a time when they may choose to not buy
> your stuff. I didn't pay for a magazine subscription to hear him whine
> about these things in print.
You should realize, Todd, that you're doing exactly the same thing--
ranting and whining.
Criticism flies fast and free on this list. People are constantly
signing off because the atmosphere is so negative. There are endless
complaints about what Gary's doing and how. It goes on and on.
Odd that when Gary finally succumbs to that mood, THAT becomes the real
problem.
> Let the guy work. You want a bunch of shlock that takes two or three
> days to pump out?
You missed my point, Jim. I DO want him to be able to do his work. I
even wrote to him to ignore the whole lot of us and listen to his own
voice instead. It just seems that these messages of his about doing
this and that with his studio equipment suggest his heart isn't in this
project, so instead he's looking for distractions. I'm wondering what
his state of mind is about this new album-- is it something he's
enjoying or is it an assignment he has to finish by some arbitrary
deadline. If it's the latter, to me that sounds like such an
unfortunate attitude to have about your own artistry. Step back,
reconsider, find again what's valuable about the process.
Just as an aside, though, 'Replicas' was recorded over three days.
Three days.
love,
Benjamin Iglar-Mobley
http://home.earthlink.net/~iglarmobley
* * *
"So now I'm alone
Now I can think for myself"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 20:40:42 -0600
From: Jeff Tolva
Subject: I stand corrected
To: digest@GaryNumanFan.NU
Fellow Numanoids,
On 2/18/00, I wrote in reference to Jim Napier:
>I can't say for certain what he charges for audio tapes, but I'll bet it's
more than >$5 per tape.
I'm glad no-one took me up on my bet. Jim Napier has informed me that he
does indeed sell copies of his Numan audio tapes for $5 each. True to my
word, I stand corrected on this point.
Jeff Tolva (The Machman)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 06:16:18 -0800
From: awa
Subject: kraftwerk, expo 2000 and official websites
To: digest@garynumanfan.nu
i haven't seen the vid yet but...
there IS certainly a new cd single out by kraftwerk called "expo 2000."
classic kraftwerk. there's less klang in the kling-klang of it this
time out as well. very smooth listen.
all numan fans who love the futuristic/sci-fi side of gary will
appreciate this track from these elektro-pop originators, these
vegetarian, green party-supporting, bike riding fanatics. lovely design
upon the cover as well, the best cover i've seen in ages.
kraftwerk prove you can stick to your robotics and electronics and you
can do it right--even if half your people leave the band. you don't
have to bring in a las vegas background singer review, nor do you have
to "go goth". ooooooo. sticking with what you're good at, writing
lyrics about subjects that you're passionate about, that never did
kraftwerk any harm in the past and it doesn't do them any harm here
either.
their (official) website sucks a dead dog's, though. i'm hoping it's a
stop-gap while they emerge from the lab over in dussledorf to bring us
some uber produkt shortly.
gary's nuworld website is still one of the best official websites there
is, whether there's ranting and whining, bitching and moaning in it or
not, it's easy on the eyes, well-designed, easy-to-use and practical.
it's all you could want in a basic gary-produced one-stop.
have a happy,
alec
> Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 15:06:23 +0000
> From: Dryad
> Subject: OT: New Kraftwerk?
> To: digest@garynumanfan.nu (Gary Numan)
>
> Your gentle pardon, folks, but I don't know who else might supply me with the
> info...
>
> brand:new on MTV UK has been screening this video, the very beginning of which
> I keep missing, so don't know who does the song, but it walks, talks, heck,
> practically smells like Kraftwerk. So, my question is, does anyone know if
> this is Kraftwerk, and if so, from what cd?
>
> Thankee
>
> Clea
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 22:48:49 -0800
From: Derek Langsford
Subject: misdirected attribution in last Digest
To: digest@GaryNumanFan.NU
Tom Gorham wrote:
>I think that's fair comment. It seems surprising that he's taking a pop at
>moaners now, when the Digest, for example, has contained criticism of Gary
>from day one (a quick check back at the first Numan Digest shows a swingeing
>- and accurate - critique of Machine and Soul from Derek Langsford. I don't
>think the complaints have got any more unreasonable since, so why choose now
>to have a go? Maybe Gaz is just a little frustrated at the moment, or fans
>are becoming a little peeved with continual delays to the release of the new
>album - delays which seem to be Gary's own doing.
Actually Tom, I don't think it was my review but Trent Jakubec's. (Trent,
are you still with us?). Back then I received everything and forwarded it
to the Digest server. I did write a review of M&S but I think it came out
in a Numanews newsletter prior to the Digest. The review was equally
critical of this inconsistent, paucity of ideas album.
The fans are restless and getting impatient. Gary's self-created
distractions don't help. I can understand the problem - I suffer the same
thing with work I find difficult. It was amazing how important cleaning
our house became while writing my dissertation.
To provide perspective - Kate Bush is working on her follow-up to 1993's
"Red Shoes" album. Peter Gabriel has not released anything since 1992's
"Us." Kraftwerk are rumoured to be on the verge of releasing their first
album of new material since 1986's "Electric Cafe." "Exile" was released
in 1997.
Derek
San Diego, CA
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 05:58:16 PST
From: "Dalis Car"
Subject: My two cents
To: digest@garynumanfan.nu, datta@ivanova.garynumanfan.nu
>>>I wonder how much of this is about control but also about money.
>Todd, your points are well taken, but I don't think it's about the >money
>for Gaz. If he were to take your advice and hire some people to help
>him out around the periphery of what he's doing, he'd probably be in >a lot
>better standing right now in marketability-- so he'd actually >have bigger
>sales and more filthy lucre at his disposal-- but he's >willing to
>sacrifice that to keep the reins in his own hands. I >think it really is
>about control for him; he just wants to do it all >himself. He has a
>vision and he wants to follow it.
I think I agree with Todd. If I remember correctly back in the days when
Derek Langsford use to have access to Gary we used to be able to send Derek
questions that he would forward to Gary then the Q & A would be posted in
the digest. I don't remember what the question was, but I remember Gary
writing something to the effect "I would sing Garth Brooks songs if someone
payed me enough money." Another one of the Q & A s someone asked what
happend with the bass and drums in his current albums, and he whined about
how he hired a bassist for one album and the guy charged him to much. So for
Gary nowadays and probably always it's just about money.
Also a lot of people have mentioned recently about what a wimp Gaz is about
critizism on anything he does. I was reminded of something that I thought at
the time was the ultimate in coolness. A few years ago I bought a beautiful
Pink Floyd CD box set. Included in the box set was a book it had really cool
ariticles about Pink and lots of pics and album lyrics. What was real cool
was that they put in all the bad album reviews. If I ever meet Gary I'm
going to suggest this to him for the Alien fanzine just to see the look on
his face.
"Move upside, let the man go through." Soul Coughing
"If I was ten years younger I'd take a flame thrower to this place!"
Al Pacino Scent of a Women
"There's a time to discriminate. Hate every motherfucker that's in your
way." Marilyn Manson
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 21:10:18 EST
From: SteelHanky@aol.com
Subject: S.U.
To: digest@garynumanfan.nu
This thread began with Numan Digest vol 2 iss 4. I was dismayed when I saw
for sale on Ebay a video of a copy of a copy of Numan's old TV appearances,
and saw the seller was a contributor to this digest. My post exposing this
(and asking his motivation for selling these copies) consisted of 20 lines,
14 of which specifically addressed the video copies. I explicitly asked
(quote):
>>Those TV appearances are NOT yours to sell. Why are you selling them?
I expected a reply, but not what I saw. The reply (vol 2, iss 5) was 57
lines long, and did not answer my question. Instead I got rationalizations,
to wit:
-- he gave away Numan bootleg cassettes for 11 years
-- he operated his Numan fanzine at a loss
-- he footed the bill for six Numan discos, complete with pizza, bands,
lighting, and venues
-- his fanzine was the least expensive compared to all other fanzines
-- there are no banners on his Numan website to make money off Numanoids.
Are you saying that you're "allowed", or somehow justified to sell copies of
your bootlegs, because you've footed the bill for Numan stuff back in the
late '80s to mid '90s? I am left to guess, as you didn't answer my question.
And the point was completely missed by Benjamin in vol 2 iss 6 when, in an
attempt to indirectly slag Joey, wrote:
> But just contrast Joey's clenched-teeth vitriol with the open-armed
> caring expressed by Jim "The Machman" Napier in his post. I think
> it's pretty telling.
In Napier's long (and largely irrelevant, I believe) reply to my direct
questioning, Napier is complimented for "open-armed caring". Wow, amazing
what Napier's introduction of "First off, WOW I never knew that was you!
How have you been? All this time I've been reading your posts oblivious that
it was you." can make others feel good to the point of completely missing the
gist of the conversation.
Napier got VERY defensive in issues 9 and 10 (and reposted twice on 11, just
hit 'send' once, ok?) in response to a non-flattering post by Phil. "Phil
Marsh has been made to look a stupid hot dog brain"? How old are you Napier?
Never mind, rhetorical question.
In issue 13, Jeff Tolva asks essentially the same questions I did before, and
makes a great point: if the true motivation is to garner new Numan contacts
for future trades, then put a dutch auction on Ebay, say 100 copies of
Numan's tv appearances for $10, or whatever you believe your costs are.
Auctioning off ONE copy at a time to the highest bidder leaves an aura of
scarcity, and bidding wars begin that benefit the seller only That does NOT
get new Numan contacts, that simply gives you a fat wallet. Besides, if I
did have some rare Numan video, you would never know, as I saw the bidding
got up over $50 for your single bootleg copy. I would never bid so high, and
you would never get me as a contact. Conversely, 100 copies at $10 or
whatever each, and I WOULD bid $10, and you WOULD get my email address as a
future contact.
Napier's apparent swan song was issue 14 ("This will be my last
posting."), the cyber equivalent of taking his toys and going home. Still
not addressing his reasons for profiting on bootleg copies,
-- I see instead he's been calling himself Machman longer than the other
folks have. He started in 1989, and "anyone after that is an imposter of
Gary and me." (Sigh.)
-- I see it's OUR fault for not copying our Numan videos and selling him
before he thought of it first (he "feels our pain" that we're missing an
opportunity to make the money he is).
-- I see Napier has a better copy of Shadowman than Tolva. What's next,
penis size?
-- I see Napier mentioning that four others are selling Numan video on Ebay.
Assuming they are bootlegs, that is certainly wrong and probably illegal, but
I fail to see how that makes it ok since you see others doing it. And I'll
bet you a dollar the other sellers are not under the guise of being a
Numanoid. That put an element of sleaze in, that folks who sell bootlegs
just to sell bootlegs do not have.
-- Napier mentions for the second time that he gets "so many positive
emails". So do all of us. Indeed, Elle MacPherson emails me almost daily,
begging me to dump the wife and become Mr. MacPherson.
Enjoy your alleged positive emails; I tend to put more weight on semi-public
postings by Numanoids, vice uncheckable "emails" from strangers.
S'cuze me, just got a positive email from Stephanie Seymour.
--- JAD...
Proud member of Boys Who Don't Profit From Bootlegs
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 14:43:57 -0600
From: "Kane"
Subject: Sleep By Windows?????
To:
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hey "Antonio" antonio@goffboi.freeserve.co.uk You Said When
Telekon First Came Out Your Favorite Song Was "Sleep By Windows"
But When I Got My Highly Anticipated Copy There Never Was A Song
On Any Copy Of Telekon I Ever Bought By That Name.It Was`nt Untill
The CD Version Came Out That It Had It On It?
Maybe The British Release Had it and The American Release Did`nt ?????
Jonathan Scott=20
http://hiwaay.net/~jonscott/
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hey "Antonio" antonio@goffboi.freeserve= .co.uk You=20 Said When
Telekon First Came Out Your Favorite = Song Was=20 "Sleep By Windows"
But When I Got My Highly Anticipated = Copy There=20 Never Was A Song
On Any Copy Of Telekon I Ever Bought By = That=20 Name.It Was`nt Untill
The CD Version Came Out That It Had It = On=20 It?
Maybe The British Release Had it and = The American=20 Release Did`nt ?????
Jonathan Scott =
http://hiwaay.net/~jonscott/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 21:46:47 -0000
From: "Valerium"
Subject: STILL Top
To:
"Ian Blair" while backing up old Lovie`s comments
stated "Well I can't believe he's got nothing better to do! You have to wait
an hour before
re-sitting!"
I hate to break the news guys but you only have to wait an hour if you can`t
figure out how not to (hardly rocket science). Rob, go on tell them how I
did it. Put them out of their misery (Nah in fact don`t bother, see below)
"so it would only be a process of re-selecting and
arranging the ones he knew (I suspect he was v confident with the right
ones) were wrong, each time..."
C`mon guys pay attention. I would still have to know FOR SURE which 16 were
right. even if I was v confident, it would still take a huge amount of goes
and one slip up would render that process useless.
Then I would have to reselect and if I got sixteen right again or in fact
seventeen, eighteen or nineteen in my oh so long quest (10 minutes!) to
perfection, these scores would have showed up in the hall of fame. But they
don't. So how did I do it?
A prize of a pint of London's finest at SB for the first correct answer.
(Except for you Rob)
Foxy, I know you will know so no entry allowed. I will buy you a pint anyhow
:-)
All this "not in the spirit of things" is bullshit. I wonder how long it
will be before we leave this PC nonsense behind us. If you scored 100% and
found an innovative way of doing it, you would not hear anything but
congrats from me. Instead the bleeding hearts of the "Its just not cricket"
brigade whine away like a dying calf in a snowstorm.
How about "well done Valerium, you cheating mother fucker". Even that is
better than "But its just not in the spirit, whine whine "
Don't worry chaps. If Rob decides to put up a prize for the first 100%
record in a new quiz, I will make sure what I did cannot be done again.
While against all PC bullshit, I am blessed with an honesty scarcely present
in today's PC Bullshit world.
Have I mentioned PC Bullshit enough or will I mention PC Bullshit once
more. What? once more? Oh Ok then. PC Bullshit .
V
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 13:17:51 +0300
From: "The Tik-Tok Man"
Subject: Telekon
To: "Numan Digest"
In the last Digest, Antonio shared his appreciation and interpretation of
the song Telekon: " 'You end on reel one' to me at the age of 14 seemed so
deep! I was thinking, 'Wow - this means your life is so short, only one reel
long... it's like, a metaphor for being cut down in our prime...' "
It's always fascinating to read the myriad meanings we Numanites attach to
Gaz's ethereal lyrics. Everyone has their favourites. Telekon is also one of
my faves, but I'd always imagined that Numan was singing to a lover he had
just split up with (probably an echo of my state of mind at that time). For
me, his use of "you" was the self-referential "you" as opposed to the third
person "you". So the line "You end on reel one" was his bitter, cold-hearted
goodbye to her; she only lasted one reel, no big deal, there'll be another
one to take her place in reel two ...
Which just reinforces my belief that more deconstruction of Numan's lyrics
and their meanings would brighten up this bitchy Digest somewhat, even lift
it out of the negative pit it's fallen onto ...
Anyone care to take a stab at the possible meanings of:
"Delicate bodies that decay beneath their clothing
play cards in an empty house in Paris.
The wreckage of a hero lies broken in the corner
and everyone pretends they'd like to live that way."
>From "You Are In My Vision" of course ...
TikTokMan
Moscow
------------------------------
End of Gary Numan Digest
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