Post subject: Re: When will new ISOs be released Posted: 02.11.2012, 21:40

Joined: 2010-09-14
Posts: 18

Status: Offline

Hi,

piper wrote:

As it's been for years

When it's done

to me that's ok, but as far as i remeber one goal of aptosid was to have 4 "releases" per year.
If there are 4 ore just 1 per year, but i would feel much better if i'm informed, even if ther would be a thread/blog/... full of problems preventing the release of the next ISOs, just to be informed.

detaos

Post subject: RE: Re: When will new ISOs be released Posted: 03.11.2012, 02:15

Every time you ask about it, the release date gets pushed back two weeks

_________________#aptosid-art ftw!
(what would cleary do?)

zogoibi

Post subject: RE: Re: When will new ISOs be released Posted: 27.11.2012, 02:46

Joined: 2011-05-22
Posts: 1

Status: Offline

@ Roll: you see how friendly and funny they are? Certainly you shouldn't ask that sort of questions. The Aptosid crew are too busy trolling their own forum; they don't have time for developing. Be patient... or, rather, move to Siduction.

DonKult

Post subject: RE: Re: When will new ISOs be released Posted: 27.11.2012, 11:49

Team Member

Joined: 2010-09-02
Posts: 485

Status: Offline

Yeah @zogoibi, you were not registered 3 weeks ago to troll yourself so we went ahead and did it for you. I am very sorry that this seems to have trolled your trolling so much that you can't even be bothered to use the right name to address people. Still, thanks for your high-quality contribution. It is well appreciated as an educational demo of what you get elsewhere …

Seriously, this question pops up every now and then after a release. It is true that the last one is quiet a while ago and therefore there is some tendency that this question is asked more frequently than "usual", but this doesn't mean there is magically a new answer available. It is the very same answer as in the million threads before this one: It is done then it is done. Sooner if you help.

Aptosid is a volunteer project and beside that everyone involved has a life on its own most are also involved quiet a bit in fundamental upstream work. I e.g. credit myself for having not enough time to help Debian release (see #676485 and its various duplicates, off-springs and side-effects) by making dist-upgrades work. I only guess that this might be also an important thing to have for others - even if this specific thing might not effect everyone (read: you).
Of course, you can go on and ignore the small problems and release 20 times a year or what not, but it is not the quality we strike for here, but if it is good enough for others, fine. If you look at the history, we never had a need to release a bugfix release as our initial release was broken. Others (have to) handle this differently…

(Thats only a personal example, you can find other "more common" (for various definitions of those) problems e.g. in other subforums here. Just a recent pick is the libnetcf1 "transition" as some people really need KVM and co to work, you know. I don't even get into kernel issues or that our infrastructure is currently partly down thanks to hardware death (see manual downtime). In general, many RC bugs in Debian are just as well RC bugs for us. So if someone really wants to know why there is enough to choose from …).

_________________MfG. DonKult
"I never make stupid mistakes. Only very, very clever ones." ~ The Doctor

finotti

Post subject: RE: Re: When will new ISOs be released Posted: 27.11.2012, 15:43

Joined: 2010-09-12
Posts: 435

Status: Offline

I thought maybe I'd share my thoughts, as little are they might be worth.

Firstly, I greatly appreciate the efforts of the team and I accept the fact that I might never know when there will be a release. For me, it's worth it as I quite like aptosid.

Right now I have no need for a new ISO, as I need no new install and my computers have been "rolling" well. (One of the reasons I like aptosid.) On the other hand, a few weeks ago I thought I might need a reinstall. At the time I was wondering if a new ISO would come soon, in which case it'd be better to wait, especially since it had been so long, and, if I am not mistaken (and I might be -- sorry if that is the case), the most recent release cannot be easily DU-ed to an up to date system. At the time, a vague idea (such as "not in a few weeks" or "we are hoping in a few weeks, but cannot guarantee", or anything) would be helpful.

So, I'd quite like to see some comments on projections, without committing to anything, or even comments on what is holding things back (e.g., "waiting for new KDE", "waiting for bug #xxxxx be fixed", etc). Maybe just a short blog with some vague updates on it.

I understand that even with disclaimers this sort of thing my generate expectations from users that cannot be met, but perhaps we the users can try to understand the team's difficulties to actually give us a definite date and how things might change any minute, and the team can try to expect the best from us (the users).

Just my 2 cents...

Best to all,

Luis

Last edited by finotti on 27.11.2012, 20:45; edited 2 times in total

oddball

Post subject: RE: Re: When will new ISOs be released Posted: 27.11.2012, 17:41

Joined: 2010-09-11
Posts: 109
Location: Skåne, Sweden
Status: Offline

First I think this thread shall be moved to a more appropriate section.

Second I also have my opinion about this.

I have 6 computers here in my house, two of them are still running aptosid along with my mothers which I administrate for her, that one is the oldest installation, it must be the first aptosid release and is only updated when I visit her, not so often i'm afraid.

I have no problem with the aptosid installations, the updates work and most likely because of the work you do on the aptosid team, but if I would have to reinstall one of them for some reason I would rather not use a release nearly one year old when there are similar ones much fresher and also working.

@ DonKult I agree with everything you say above. It's quite obvious that there would be a need for more people maintaining and developing aptosid. I have been with some of you (as user only) since the Kanotix time and now it has forked twice, there are three distributions instead of one. For example three developer making kernels, kano, slh, and towo, it must be a lot of people doing similar work. Anyway this is what happens and nothing to say about that, It's just to adapt to reality.

Even you at the aptosid team probably understand that if you announce a goal to release 4 times a year and there have not been a release for nearly a year there must be users and also newcomers who look at the aptosid site who wonder if this is a dying distribution or at least what is going to happen? Maybe there shall be some news of some new goals or something? To just tell everybody who wonder that " it will come when it's done" or even make people afraid of asking is not a very good approach anymore.

manul

Post subject: RE: Re: When will new ISOs be released Posted: 27.11.2012, 20:06

Joined: 2010-09-13
Posts: 111

Status: Offline

I'm also an old user of aptosid with many installations at families and friends.
And, I second what finotti and oddball said above (same view and considerations).

piper

Post subject: Re: RE: Re: When will new ISOs be released Posted: 28.11.2012, 17:14

First I think this thread shall be moved to a more appropriate section.

Second I also have my opinion about this.

I have 6 computers here in my house, two of them are still running aptosid along with my mothers which I administrate for her, that one is the oldest installation, it must be the first aptosid release and is only updated when I visit her, not so often i'm afraid.

I have no problem with the aptosid installations, the updates work and most likely because of the work you do on the aptosid team, but if I would have to reinstall one of them for some reason I would rather not use a release nearly one year old when there are similar ones much fresher and also working.

@ DonKult I agree with everything you say above. It's quite obvious that there would be a need for more people maintaining and developing aptosid. I have been with some of you (as user only) since the Kanotix time and now it has forked twice, there are three distributions instead of one. For example three developer making kernels, kano, slh, and towo, it must be a lot of people doing similar work. Anyway this is what happens and nothing to say about that, It's just to adapt to reality.

Even you at the aptosid team probably understand that if you announce a goal to release 4 times a year and there have not been a release for nearly a year there must be users and also newcomers who look at the aptosid site who wonder if this is a dying distribution or at least what is going to happen? Maybe there shall be some news of some new goals or something? To just tell everybody who wonder that " it will come when it's done" or even make people afraid of asking is not a very good approach anymore.

Quote:

Even you at the aptosid team probably understand that if you announce a goal to release 4 times a year and there have not been a release for nearly a year there must be users and also newcomers who look at the aptosid site who wonder if this is a dying distribution or at least what is going to happen?

That's just what it is, a goal, nothing concrete and is very dependent on the mother (debian).

The question is, where is debian right now?

Code:

the aptosid roadmap

Please understand that the following roadmap is a rough estimate regarding our release schedule and is affected by the status of upstream Debian sid, major system components like X.org, KDE, the linux kernel and our own developments and is subject to changes.

Please understand that the following roadmap is a rough estimate regarding our release schedule and is affected by the status of upstream Debian sid especially rough estimate

of course, some will say as the troll above that this is a unfriendly way of saying it, but, in reality, it is common sense.

_________________debian sid | apt-get into it

oddball

Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: When will new ISOs be released Posted: 28.11.2012, 17:45

Joined: 2010-09-11
Posts: 109
Location: Skåne, Sweden
Status: Offline

Quote:

Please understand that the following roadmap is a rough estimate regarding our release schedule and is affected by the status of upstream Debian sid especially rough estimate

of course, some will say as the troll above that this is a unfriendly way of saying it, but, in reality, it is common sense.

Everybody knows that, but the difference from before, between three or four releases a year to 11 month without anything or any information, just after that there have been a fork and a lot of people did like Elvis (left the building) is significant. With no information and no release aptosid will loose nearly all newcomers and most of the old users who need to make a new install.

manul

Post subject: Re: RE: Re: When will new ISOs be released Posted: 28.11.2012, 20:03

Joined: 2010-09-13
Posts: 111

Status: Offline

piper wrote:

Please understand that the following roadmap is a rough estimate regarding our release schedule and is affected by the status of upstream Debian sid especially rough estimate
of course, some will say as the troll above that this is a unfriendly way of saying it, but, in reality, it is common sense.

Thanks piper.
But we all understand common sense.
So.. where is Debian right now? Are you guys waiting for the next Debian stable release?

Is there any list of formal (or informal) criterias, by which the aptosid devs are guided - as to whether it is a "good" time or not, for a new release? It will be interesting to know what are these.

Again, we all understand (i think), that it is intent/estimate and nothing more (and self-understood additional factors like dev time, availability etc which need not be mentioned.)

piper

Post subject: Re: RE: Re: When will new ISOs be released Posted: 29.11.2012, 17:45

Please understand that the following roadmap is a rough estimate regarding our release schedule and is affected by the status of upstream Debian sid especially rough estimate
of course, some will say as the troll above that this is a unfriendly way of saying it, but, in reality, it is common sense.

Thanks piper.
But we all understand common sense.
So.. where is Debian right now? Are you guys waiting for the next Debian stable release?

Is there any list of formal (or informal) criterias, by which the aptosid devs are guided - as to whether it is a "good" time or not, for a new release? It will be interesting to know what are these.

Again, we all understand (i think), that it is intent/estimate and nothing more (and self-understood additional factors like dev time, availability etc which need not be mentioned.)

I am not a team member, so, I don't know the release due date or when one is planned.

To be honest, with a rolling release, I really don't worry about it.

I can understand the frustration of people that want a new install and that the dist-upgrade is huge.

I really have no say in this and respect any distro/applications/tools that says, when it's done it's done.

m$, apple, android does the same.

Yes, people don't want to hear it, but it is what it is.

_________________debian sid | apt-get into it

dorin

Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: When will new ISOs be released Posted: 30.11.2012, 11:31