Tuesday, December 15, 2015

Peggy Noonan, a "conservative" who voted for Obama in 2008 because reasons, can barely bring herself... to say...that terrible, terrible word.

Remember, the more they protest the term, the more they shriek "Nazi" and "fascist" and "racist" in an attempt to escape the burning flames, the more rhetorically effective you know it is. Calling a self-styled conservative a "cuckservative" is akin to brandishing a cross-shaped stake that was soaked in garlic and holy water in a vampire's face.

Then driving that bad boy home.

That being said, if for tactical purposes you wish to have a calm and etymologically untainted dialectical term of use that they cannot reasonably protest in your arsenal, I suggest you utilize "demi-conservative", as the cuckservative is an individual who only subscribes to three of Russell Kirk's six conservative canons.

The three canons to which the demi-conservative observably fails to adhere are:

A conviction that society requires orders and classes that emphasize "natural" distinctions

A faith in custom, convention, and prescription

A recognition that innovation must be tied to existing traditions and customs, which entails a respect for the political value of prudence.

Their failure to do so may not be entirely clear by these summaries of Kirk's canons, but I will write a more detailed post later which will make it eminently clear that this is unquestionably the case. As you can see, many of today's "conservatives" are actually demi-conservatives who have rejected literally half of what the father of American conservatism declared to be the conservative mind.

A lot of people don't understand that counterpunching is an attack strategy, not a defensive one. It simply means that you wait for the opponent to give you a tactical opening rather than trying to forcibly create one.

I notice there is still only 1, 1 star review. Do you think this is because the Cuckservatives aren't like the #SJWs in that they'll swarm and point and shriek? I posit they don't want to draw that kind of attention to themselves and so they, like all cuckolds either hide in ignominy or lie to themselves about what they are.

Ever the modest dark lord. I do remember you mentioning Cernovich coined the term, but since you're the one who wrote the bestselling political book with the eponymous title, I think it's safe to say you had a hand in popularizing it. Kudos on the successful meme.

That could be evidence for the thesis that they cuck because they're excessively cautious. However, I think it was BGS who pointed out that like mudshark, the term can't be reclaimed, so it's difficult to even address.

I think it's safe to say you had a hand in popularizing it. Kudos on the successful meme.

Fair enough. Cernovich didn't coin it either, but he was the first Alt Right figure with an audience to push it. Milo wrote an influential article as well. What the book does is cement it as a legitimate political term, as the #1 book in Political Philosophy and Nationalism is not as easily dismissed or falsely characterized.

Congrats on pushing this out there. Getting people to recognize that there are those who may claim the mantle but who, as you've pointed out above, do not actually accept the tenets of conservatism is a necessary step toward forcing people to make a choice. Cuckservatives worry only about which of the pieces of the sacrificial lambs of the body politic they will get to eat themselves.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=CuckservativeThe word is about four months old by the gospel according to youtube. Cernovich appears way back around then https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNj_R3wbgeg Things are changing so fast it's hard to track the timelines post facto, like trying to nail down the value of a Zimbabwe dollar. "Cuckservative" goes from knazhi fringe to mothercuckers on CNN in 4 months flat: that's some change you can believe in.

I urge all Ilk to tweet the YouTube link above (click on the arrow) and recommend the book "Cuckservative, buy it at Amazon" There are millions of out there who need to read this book!

I am appalled that Peggy voted for Obama (but not surprised). The pro-abortion, Chicago machine politician must have sent a shiver up her leg? Further support for Vox' belief that women should not be allowed to vote in a representative republic. I concur, Male, 21, and a landowner.

Peggy finds the word cuckservative shameful... an expression of guilt on her part?

I had no idea who that old woman is, so I Wikipedoed (Wikisandifered?) her:

In the 2012 presidential campaign, in the days prior to the November election, she expressed optimism for a Mitt Romney victory over Barack Obama because she said she saw happy faces and optimism among Republicans.

Yeah, RamZPaul did a video on July 25th, followed by Mike on July 26th. The first use on Twitter is by a Gamergater named Aiden James in response to another GGer. No wonder SJWs think GG is the root of all evil.

I just added the Cuckservative book to the Cuckservative Wikipedia page. This is my first ever attempt at editing Wikipedia. We'll see what others do with it. I did not know what some of the fields were that it was asking for in reference to the book cite. Someone else feel free to fill in the gaps.

And Cernovich doesn't have a Wikipedia page yet?!!! Think of all the mileage he could get out of SJWs tinkering with his page.

Mark Steyn just had an interesting experience testifying at a Climate Alarmist hearing in the Senate, and he describes the GOP as folding on everything. If someone could email him and get him up to speed on CUCKSERVATIVE he might be useful in spreading the meme or even highlight the book, although he spends a lot of time plugging his own stuff. I would do it, but one has to have a Google or Facebook or whatever and I don't

The demis could save themselves, all I think they need to do is turn on the left and tell them that it is the left that is interjecting race into the conversation.

I don't think they will, the cucks are old and beyond the age that any reason will change their minds, they are just old people entering that part of life that only emotional stimuli will affect their minds.

They literally have allowed one word "racist" to dominate their entire minds and all the works that flow from what is left.

We own the youth though, cucks have nothing for them, except maybe some trust funds.

There isn't enough conservatism in cuckservatives to call them demi-conservatives.

Kirk's principles themselves are demi-conservative, so you're dealing with a subset of a subset.

With their inclination to shoot right against true conservatives on the grounds of the most authentically conservative principles of all (nativism, protectionism, and isolationism), the kindest dialectic term that could possibly apply to cuckservatives is FAUX-CONSERVATIVES.

More truthful would be anti-conservatives. Because that's what they are.

Asphyxiated they can't do that. Suck all oxygen out of the room and they're all yesterday. Bury them in golf claps, the laurels of also rans. Ultra nationalists won't be last man standing. Just people who are right.

The cuckservative mind seems to naturally turn to race when hearing the term, but what it ultimately speaks to is the hijacking/cucking under their watch of the traditions and institutions conservatives should be protecting by forces inimical to the values those institutions and traditions were established to uphold and pass forward.

Pretty funny, I thought her head was going to explode there. Anyone who considered voting for the Zero, let alone actually voted for him, is suspect. There is no way anyone with conservative values could have seriously considered him. He is the epitome of the enemy.

It's a word that succinctly describes an observable political phenomena on the American right. Once aware of the term it's hard to think of how we ever did without it.

It reminds me of the exchange between Trump and a reporter over the term anchor baby. The reporter preferred to use a long jumble of words strung together. Trump said, "I'll continue to say 'anchor baby', k thanks."

Cucks rejected Kirk's canon for the Jim Jones cult it's their fault. The cucks could pull themselves out of this mess, but per usual they will end up quibbling some details and cursing us for being mainly free of the cult

"No. When are you mental tortoises going to stop trying to dialectic the rhetoric?"

I suggested faux-conservative rather than contra-conservative, but either way, I think the divergence arose when you suggested that you were submitting a dialectic term (cuckservative already being the rhetorical term).

Vox is correct here, Cuckservative is like Mudshark/Coal-burner. Look at how words such as nigger,faggot even SJW have more or less been reclaimed.

Those are derogatory terms yes, but they are words based on Truth of Self to the Outer World. They can be reclaimed.

Cuckservative and Mudshark are very different, they are True to the Outer World, but expose the Lie of the Self.

You don't have to justify the former derogatory terms, you have the Moral High Ground. "Yes I am, so what? I'm true to myself, fuck you!"

Cuckservative is based on lying to yourself and to others about who you are. You are a self-deluded traitor who chooses mental hedonism, signal-virtuing and shekels and geld over your nation, your people and your own children.

THAT is why it hurts so effectively. It is the emotional blow of "I've been found out!!!" It is a devestating rhetorical weapon, far better than RINO or any other term precisely because it is so ugly in it's portmanteau implications.

Cruz has been exhibiting manners that are considered to be old-fashioned. Politeness, restraint, not getting in people's faces and wagging a finger and shouting them down. He really has been engaged in what I believe are time-honored behavioral techniques that represent manners, breeding, sophistication, maturity, and all that. And doing so has forced Trump into a couple of major blunders here.

What you have to know about Peggy Noonan is that a) she graduated from Farleigh Dickinson, and has always felt inferior to those who attended more prestigious schools; b) her first big professional break was as a staff writer for Dan Rather, who, to his credit, actually hired a nominal Republican; and c) ever since she left the White House she has striven ceaselessly to be allowed to sit at the media adult table. She has figured out that news people are much further left than they used to be, and she cast herself as the sensible, intellectual Republican who can be counted on to have the right opinions in private.

So if you want someone to criticize conservatives or Republicans, she's your girl. First-class airfare and a car and driver, please, and Miss Noonan will book her own choice of hotel and bill it to you.

Lawrence Auster always hammered on Noonan for writinh, in the run-up to the 2004 invasion of Iraq, that America is superior to European nations because we are supposedly defined by belief in an airy ideal while they believe in "dirt".

I thought this dialed it up rhetorically even more (I can easily be wrong in this).

Not trying to switch it to dialectic, though I can see that view.

My thought is more along the line of faux or pseudo.

Okay, I'll walk you through it. First, flow. A good rhetorical term has to have flow to it. "Cuckservative" is suboptimal in this regard, as the hard K sound breaks up the flow into the S, but it is so triggering that it works anyhow.

Say "contra-conservative". Does it flow? No. Faux-conservative is not great either, plus many people have no idea how to pronounce "faux". That's why "Fauxcahauntus" didn't catch on, even though it has great flow and is otherwise apt.

Demi-conservative flows nicely, as does neoconservative.

Now onto the mental associations. What do you think of when you hear "contra"? I think Sandanista, Ollie North, etc. What do you think of when you hear "demi"? I think of "little" and "feminine" and "Democrat". Again, demi-conservative is better than contra-conservative.

Finally, the aptness. Contra-conservative is false. And what do we know about the best rhetoric? It is based on truth. Cuckservatives are half in line with Kirk's principles, they're not SJWs or Leftists. Demi is more appropriate.

Cruz has been exhibiting manners that are considered to be old-fashioned. Politeness, restraint, not getting in people's faces and wagging a finger and shouting them down.

Yeah, and how have good manners been working out for Republicans since they went full-cuck in 1988? Those graceful GOP losers in 1992, 1996, 2008, and 2012 were certainly praised and admired by the Left for their good manners, right?

It wasn't clear because the likes of Boehner and McConnell were retained – if the "lesser of two evils" crowd really meant it, they would have voted for the Democrat rather than the incumbent, proven traitors esp. considering that as freshmen Congressmen they would have been held in lesser regard and have to spend time/energy learning their place.

@64 "Even Rush can't help cucking,"

Romney in 2012: all the proof you need.

"Cruz has been exhibiting manners that are considered to be old-fashioned."

@71 "And what do we know about the best rhetoric? It is based on truth."

Jesus was a master at this, calling out the religious and moral leaders: "whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean.".

PA @70: Lawrence Auster always hammered on Noonan for writinh, in the run-up to the 2004 invasion of Iraq, that America is superior to European nations because we are supposedly defined by belief in an airy ideal while they believe in "dirt".

That reminds me of an article I read yesterday that was one of the most interesting of the year: A Stark Choice: Ted Cruz's Jacksonian Americanism vs. Marco Rubio's Wilsonian Internationalism. Even though it's more of a metaphor as applied to those Cuban-Americans -- a better example would be Donald Trump vs. Jeb Bush -- it's a useful mental model. I was also intrigued by their concept of right-wing and left-wing neocons (the latter of which I would call neolibs) as different forms of Wilsonianism, which is why they seem so similar.

It encapsulates all they fear about Men of Color (their wives yearning for a real strong man)

It encapsulates their suspicions about SJWs and the genteel 'conservatives' alike, including many of the tanner ones. Namely, that that's the kind of situation they'd accept - if only out of fear of criticism from others.

Which is why the cuckservatives, and cucks in general, freak the fuck out when that label is thrown at them. Part of their submission is supposed to entail, at the very least, some meager amount of public respect and turning a blind eye to their failings. The fact that they're not even getting -that- anymore, why, that wasn't part of the deal!

And, by the by - the cucks include those blacks who, despite standing to lose a hell of a lot from it, keep quiet about immigration as well. Let me guess: ain't nothin' a brutha fears more than one of those bruthas from Syria mackin'? Or whatever the tribal lingo is nowadays.

The thing with Noonan and Goldberg and all the Profession Pundit class is-- it's just a job, man. They are much more interested in their next tv appearance than they are in the direction of the country. They set themselves up and portray themselves as "Above The Fray Conservative" (Noonan) or Especially Witty Conservative" (Goldberg) but in the end it's about fame and the house and the comfortable life. Reminds me of that old cartoon Sam Sheepdog and Ralph Wolf where the adversaries punch in and out to go through he daily motions. What Noonan and Goldberg don't get is that their opponents aren't all James Carvilles-- fellow cartoon opponents---- but there are real opponents who want to do real damage.

They are despised because they actively work for the enemy whilst proclaiming to be on the right.

"Cuckservative" then is a way of winnowing the wheat from the chaff - as in "you're not conservative, so you're not on the right side (and you can stop claiming to be)"

I haven't read the book yet, for reasons of time and a preference for paper over e-books, but, on this thread at least, Vox's choice of "demi" rather than faux or fake lends legitimacy to scum who are the enemy, and the enemy who must be defeated before the SJWs can be defeated.

I think Vox's point was to suggest a dialectical term for cuckservatives that might have tactical use, not launch a quest for the new, universal Platonic perfect-form definition for them. Let alone one that might actually be used rhetorically.

It doesn't work that way. "Faux" "Contra" "Demi" "Pseudo"... none of them are dialed-up rhetorically. None will even be effective rhetorically. They're dry and dull. Cuckservative might be an ugly word, and you might not want to use it. Its emotional charge might be uncomfortable to handle.

But it is precisely accurate, and it works. Don't be afraid to use it.

The first I saw of cuckservative referred back to the right stuff site, but when I try to do a search for the term there nothing comes up (given my technical incompetence, I'm probably doing something wrong).

I remember Noonan from the Reagan administration, when I was a newly-hatched conservative Republican. I also remember her gushing about Obama in '08, when I was warning now former friends that he was a Stalinist both in policy and practice. I suppose that was when I officially moved to the dark enlightenment - and when I could no longer read Townhall or Ace of Spades, which I found so excitingly outspoken back in 2000.

@93 "I think Vox's point was to suggest a dialectical term for cuckservatives that might have tactical use, not launch a quest for the new, universal Platonic perfect-form definition for them. Let alone one that might actually be used rhetorically."

I recently came across the acronym PRICC (Progressive Republican in Conservative Clothing) and find myself liking it -- it is certainly rhetorical in how it associates, but the expansion is a pretty dialectic descriptor and describes what exactly a 'cuckservative' is... so that [the expansion] might be a good way to discuss it in dialectic.

It appears you have not read the book. A habit of claiming "the Left are the REAL racists" is listed as one of the identifieers of a cuckservative.

I haven't gotten to that part of the book yet myself. I'm interested in reading what Vox has to say there. Personally, I think liberals are racist in a far more evil way than anything I've seen Vox write. Vox just says different races have different cultural and behavioral norms, those norms change very slowly at best, and whenever two different races are forced to interact too deeply or for too long a period, tension and eventually violence are the result.

Liberal white people treat different races as pets, props, and political pawns, and they get really mad at any ethnics who stray off the plantation.

But, I'm looking forward to reading what a couple of guys off the reservation have to say about it. I'm pretty sure I can guess, and if so, agree.

Cuckservative may not flow or sound that good, but it looks good and devastating --it's got that 'uck.' And since it started online, it makes sense that it's got more of a visual hook. Demi-conservative might then work better in interviews --tv, radio, podcasts.

I haven't read the book yet, for reasons of time and a preference for paper over e-books, but, on this thread at least, Vox's choice of "demi" rather than faux or fake lends legitimacy to scum who are the enemy, and the enemy who must be defeated before the SJWs can be defeated.

Then you shouldn't be trying take part in this discussion. You are insufficiently informed. Nor are you grasping the distinction between rhetoric and pseudo-dialectic.

John Red Eagle @93: I think Vox's point was to suggest a dialectical term for cuckservatives that might have tactical use, not launch a quest for the new, universal Platonic perfect-form definition for them. Let alone one that might actually be used rhetorically.

In order to get conversion, you have to light a fire and then provide an out. Demi-con is the escape hatch from the discomfort: "oh I'm not letting my wife cheat on me, I just didn't know all six principles of conservatism and now I do." If I'm grasping the intent correctly, I think it's perfect for what it's supposed to do.

I was reading Cuckservative in my blind the other day, and (this is a first), almost missed a buck who had unfortunately (for him) wandered into my shooting lane.

What continually kept creeping into my thoughts is how painful this book is going to be for many Christians, who have unfortunately elevated certain societal values to supreme spiritual levels. Using their earthbound righteousness to beat other Christians into submission.

The thing with Noonan and Goldberg and all the Profession Pundit class is-- it's just a job, man... Reminds me of that old cartoon Sam Sheepdog and Ralph Wolf where the adversaries punch in and out to go through he daily motions.

Nice one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Wolf_and_Sam_Sheepdog ...occasionally, a fang protruding from his mouth. He also shares the Coyote's appetite... but he covets sheep instead of road runners and, when he speaks, doesn't have the upper-class accent or the egotistical bearing of the Coyote. Another crucial difference is that of personality: Ralph does not have the fanatical drive of the Coyote in pursuing his prey, preferring to abandon his chase at the end of the working day.

@93. John Red Eagle

But it is precisely accurate, and it works. Don't be afraid to use it.

It also has the advantage of sounding just like a cuss word at first hearing, so there's a double-take effect, a rethink. That may be part of why Noonan's tingle-giggle in the CNN vid.

Given a long-enough timeline, all conservatives are cuckservatives. The avant-garde conservatives are today doing what conservatives have always done, which is to digest and integrate progressives' changes into the fabric of tradition. This principle is why there isn't a conservative in existence who opposes women's suffrage or the demotion of the father as authoritative head of the family. Progressives and conservatives have always been a team.

Vox said, "A habit of claiming "the Left are the REAL racists" is listed as one of the identifieers of a cuckservative."

Oh please, can I keep trolling Progs with it? It is such fun I'm not sure I could give up the habit. I enjoy reminding them the KKK is the "Terror wing of the Democratic Party", Exalted Cyclops Byrd is thier revered statesman, demolishing their myth of Nixon and the Southern Strategy, reminding them Planned Parenthood and their genocide of non-whites is entirely a result of their victory.

And so on, it makes their empty widdle heads explode and if making Prog heads explode is wrong I'm not sure I want to be right. :)

There are quite a few folks who are against women's sufferage in my neck of the woods. Some of them look both ways before they say it, but I've had a number of people either raise the issue, or agree when I raise it. There are some folks out here who are coservatives, but aren't just conserving granny's radical craziness.

No. I'm very well-informed. You are thin-skinned and lack humility, which is why you lash out like Scalzi and Searcy when challenged.

You may be "very well-informed" but you are insufficiently informed for this particular discussion. You are literally opining in ignorance. I don't lash out when challenged; you haven't challenged me. You haven't even read what I've written!

You're not the only one with a brain on this planet.

Of course not. But mine observably operates at a higher level than yours, as your combination of a) opining in ignorance, b) butthurt, and c) emotional projection tends to demonstrate.

I told you the same thing I always tell everyone here: if you have not read something, do not attempt to discuss it. Do not attempt to join the discussion because you literally do not know what you're talking about.

Far too many people have challenged me here for your statement to be even remotely credible.

Sure. It's not the magic combination of words, but the fact that the cuckservative is serious about it. They are very big on "see, if they do X, that just proves they're hypocrites" tactics. Which they use against people they already know are shameless.

All of this talk about rhetorical terms for the 'sort of right' makes me realize we don't have a really good term for those of Left. Leftist isn't very good rhetoric. Neither is marxist, communist, globalist, progressive, liberal or socialist.

SJW is pretty good, but it only applies to the craziest members of the left. I saw the word prog in this discussion thread, which isn't bad and a hell of a lot better than anything I can come up with. The best I've got is regressive, which doesn't have the punch I'm looking for.

CNN is an uber-feminist front. Another intel-op pretending to journalism. Good God it's like the past three decades never happened and everybody slept thru it.

Peggy Noonan is the Katie Couric of the right. That she appeals to American 'conservatives' is doomful. Anybody that voted for Obama in 2008 should already be on the work farms. Instead of being feted and featured and paid and analyzed for telling zombie Americans the 'news'. Instead of furrowing her wise-woman brow and solving the planet's problems, Peggy Noonan should be baking cookies for her grandchildren. But no she and her well-connected pals are running the country.

I often wonder where I stand now, label-wise. I always considered myself a conservative, because I believe in:1) The Constitution - It's the law and should be followed as such.2) Capitalism - it works amazingly well, when allowed to.3) Small Government - Because you can't have the first two if you have a big one.4) Personal Responsibility - No one else is responsible for you, only you can be responsible for you.5) Freedom

But apparently, things have changed. When social conservatives started to be equated with conservatives, I got rather upset, because social conservatives violate the basic premises of being a conservative, they want to use force to make you behave in a certain way. That means big government, less constitution, less freedom. Sounds like liberalism, doesn't it?Plus, who's business is it, what I do, or how I live, if I'm not rubbing other people's noses in it and not harming folks?

Too many people always want to say 'well, but this MIGHT happen' as an excuse to control you. Well pigs MIGHT fly and the world MIGHT end tomorrow. However you don't live your life based on such things, and nor should you be allowed to force other people to live theirs on things that MIGHT happen, especially if there is no reasonable proof that it ever WILL happen.

I've flirted with the Libertarian party over the last decade or so, but they've got so many crazies I don't know why I even bother. So I have no idea just what I'd be considered these days.

Also, note I didn't dispute the rest of your comment, though I also didn't say cucks weren't just as guilty as the libs. I'm not disagreeing with you.

But I'll respect your wishes and not comment further until I've finished the book. I will send you an email with my "before" take as a sealed envelope thing, and we'll see if we're close to the same page or not. I expect we may be.

Shit, maybe I'm the one that didn't get enough sleep. Vox was hammering Bacon Curtain, not me...

Okay, well... so...

Liberals are definitely racist in that they treat minorities like political props, but Cuckservatives are racist in very similar ways. The most recent illustration is that idiot actor with the heated pool waving his adopted black kid around like some +3 Morality Bonus Card in a solipsistic game of Ain't I Wonderful.