Joined: 29 Jan 2013Posts: 1107Location: Chamber of the House of Lords, Palace of Westminister

Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 7:59 pm Post subject: 2013-10-06 Loneliness

The evil held inside bides its time. It retreats, but it does not die. It is ever there, lurking at the edge of your conscience - its whispers merge with your thoughts, they are your thoughts. Evil is part of you.

And it wears a straw boater hat._________________Good day, good people!

Last edited by Istancow on Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:48 pm; edited 1 time in total

Joined: 29 Jan 2013Posts: 1107Location: Chamber of the House of Lords, Palace of Westminister

Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:21 pm Post subject:

What is the solution?

Does Sleaze ultimately die off, imprisoned and starved until he simply fades from existence?Does Slick emerge free of his evil and ready to live a virtuous life?

Will Sleaze persist, his darkness permanently etched into Slick's mind? Will Slick be proven ultimately unable to rid himself of the lurking darkness that will forever pull him away from morality?

Or can Slick turn Sleaze, and his towering vice of lust into something... constructive? (I can't imagine what, but something, maybe) Accept his flaws, and consciously work to direct them in such a way that will harm nobody?

Tatsuya, I am eager to see what shall become of Jekyll and Hyde._________________Good day, good people!

Funny, I'm usually quick to defend the bad guys, and I don't feel bad for Sleaze at all.

I was never able to really get behind A Clockwork Orange (book and movie both) because as horrible as the Ludovico Technique was, I knew it was infinitely closer to being humane than the actual prison system (especially when presented as an alternative option with informed consent of prisoners) and it was also clearly more effective at actually stopping violent criminals from committing violent crime. Also I never really had much sympathy for Alex in the first place. "Woe is me, I mutilated and raped and murdered people, but now I can't enjoy Beethoven, what cruel injustice!"

Same thing here because this is about the kindest end result for Sleaze I can imagine, i.e. stuck somewhere that he can't hurt anyone. Also is Sleaze really even a proper "person"? Isn't he just an anthropomorphic manifestation of Slick's worst impulses?

On a lighter note, it's nice to know that even half a glitter point is this powerful, so Slick may have accomplished more than he realized.

Funny, I'm usually quick to defend the bad guys, and I don't feel bad for Sleaze at all.

I was never able to really get behind A Clockwork Orange (book and movie both) because as horrible as the Ludovico Technique was, I knew it was infinitely closer to being humane than the actual prison system (especially when presented as an alternative option with informed consent of prisoners) and it was also clearly more effective at actually stopping violent criminals from committing violent crime. Also I never really had much sympathy for Alex in the first place. "Woe is me, I mutilated and raped and murdered people, but now I can't enjoy Beethoven, what cruel injustice!"

Same thing here because this is about the kindest end result for Sleaze I can imagine, i.e. stuck somewhere that he can't hurt anyone. Also is Sleaze really even a proper "person"? Isn't he just an anthropomorphic manifestation of Slick's worst impulses?

On a lighter note, it's nice to know that even half a glitter point is this powerful, so Slick may have accomplished more than he realized.

Thank you for putting into words why I dislike the main character in Clockwork Orange so much.

As for Sleaze, I also don't have much sympathy for him. He is Mr Hyde, the evil persona that tries to make life worse for Slick.

I was never able to really get behind A Clockwork Orange (book and movie both) because as horrible as the Ludovico Technique was, I knew it was infinitely closer to being humane than the actual prison system (especially when presented as an alternative option with informed consent of prisoners) and it was also clearly more effective at actually stopping violent criminals from committing violent crime. Also I never really had much sympathy for Alex in the first place. "Woe is me, I mutilated and raped and murdered people, but now I can't enjoy Beethoven, what cruel injustice!"

The author of A Clockwork Orange said that he never intended for the reader to empathize with Alex. He's considered an antihero in pretty much all literary analyses of the text. It's rather a conjecture on the consequences of free will, the consequences of the removal of said free will, and a general look at a rotten society. Also, due to the Ludovico technique, Alex is unable to commit violence, even in self defense; this is why he has to just sit there and take it when Dim and George almost beat him to death once he's out of prison.

Also, aversion therapy (which is what the Ludovico technique is equivalent to) can break people. It used to be a somewhat common form of 'treating' homosexuality, until the APA ruled that such use was dangerous. It's only usage in modern psychology is, afaik, dealing with drug and alcohol addiction. It's use in the past (specifically electroshock) has been linked to patient suicides, and was found almost completely ineffective for changing deep behavioral characteristics, such as homosexuality (or, in Alex's case, a natural disposition for extreme violence).

Edit: A relevant section of the wikipedia article on Aversion Therapy, seeing as in the book Alex is 15 years old:

Quote:

Aversion therapy is still sometimes forced on children and teenagers who violate sex laws, and especially on individuals believed to have deviant sexual feelings. These youths have been forced to smell ammonia, describe humiliating scenarios, or engage in other uncomfortable acts, while looking at nude pictures, listening to audio tapes describing sexual situations, or describing their own fantasies. In order to measure sexual response, devices such as penile plethysmographs and vaginal photoplethysmographs are sometimes used, despite the controversies surrounding them.[citation needed]

In 1992, the Arizona Civil Liberties Union challenged the Phoenix Memorial Hospital for its use of these methods on children as young as 10. They were defended by the Association for the Treatment of Sexual Abusers. Since then, policies have usually discouraged the use of forced aversion therapy on children under 14.

_________________The Thirties dreamed white marble and slipstream chrome, immortal crystal and burnished bronze, but the rockets on the covers of the Gernsback pulps had fallen on London in the dead of night, screaming. - William Gibson, The Gernsback Continuum

Last edited by fritterdonut on Sun Oct 06, 2013 12:11 am; edited 1 time in total

...this is about the kindest end result for Sleaze I can imagine, i.e. stuck somewhere that he can't hurt anyone. Also is Sleaze really even a proper "person"? Isn't he just an anthropomorphic manifestation of Slick's worst impulses?

Indeed. As Sleaze is a part of Slick, what we're seeing in this comic is Slicks fate IF he were to give in to those impulses. Whether or not Sleaze is happy with this doesn't seem relevant, since he is The Bad Guy in this storyline - unless...huh. Unless he's being positively affected by Slicks attempts to be The Good Guy. Maybe Sleaze is bound to change as well - not necessarily destroyed or banished, but tamed - and THAT will be Slicks ultimate victory._________________

mouse wrote:

almost a shame to waste dennis' talent on him.
except it's always a pleasure to see a good dennis insult.

Funny, I'm usually quick to defend the bad guys, and I don't feel bad for Sleaze at all.

I was never able to really get behind A Clockwork Orange (book and movie both) because as horrible as the Ludovico Technique was, I knew it was infinitely closer to being humane than the actual prison system (especially when presented as an alternative option with informed consent of prisoners) and it was also clearly more effective at actually stopping violent criminals from committing violent crime. Also I never really had much sympathy for Alex in the first place. "Woe is me, I mutilated and raped and murdered people, but now I can't enjoy Beethoven, what cruel injustice!"

Same thing here because this is about the kindest end result for Sleaze I can imagine, i.e. stuck somewhere that he can't hurt anyone. Also is Sleaze really even a proper "person"? Isn't he just an anthropomorphic manifestation of Slick's worst impulses?

On a lighter note, it's nice to know that even half a glitter point is this powerful, so Slick may have accomplished more than he realized.

Agreed. With everything.
There can be no kindness for monsters. If what it takes to make them not hurt others is to clip their claws, remove their fangs and poison them to all they could enjoy... then that's what must be done.
Maybe, once Slick completely conquered this side of himself, Sleaze can re-join him so that they can be a single, whole person.

Agreed. With everything.
There can be no kindness for monsters. If what it takes to make them not hurt others is to clip their claws, remove their fangs and poison them to all they could enjoy... then that's what must be done.
Maybe, once Slick completely conquered this side of himself, Sleaze can re-join him so that they can be a single, whole person.

If we are willing to be as monstrous as necessary to deal with a monster, then what makes us different from him/her? That he/she stroke first?