<quoted text>I have one issue with it, it gives insurance companies customers without them having to work for the customers. It guarantees them profits, and way more than they have ever had.

Like auto insurance, the problem has been and always will be that people don't want insurance until they need it.

Imagine the state of auto insurance if we had auto emergency rooms.

"Look, it's important that you have auto insurance in case you get into an accident. However, if you don't have insurance and you get into an accident, we'll fix your car for free and the tax payers will pay for it. Now, what sort of auto coverage do you want?"

Currently, we don't have auto emergency rooms and there's still a huge portion of drivers who are uninsured.

So, yes, the insurance companies will get more customers and they will have to pay for those customers which is a huge advantage over the current situation which is: Patient doesn't pay for health care, still gets care. Make the tax payers cover 100% of it.

<quoted text>Like auto insurance, the problem has been and always will be that people don't want insurance until they need it.Imagine the state of auto insurance if we had auto emergency rooms."Look, it's important that you have auto insurance in case you get into an accident. However, if you don't have insurance and you get into an accident, we'll fix your car for free and the tax payers will pay for it. Now, what sort of auto coverage do you want?"Currently, we don't have auto emergency rooms and there's still a huge portion of drivers who are uninsured.So, yes, the insurance companies will get more customers and they will have to pay for those customers which is a huge advantage over the current situation which is: Patient doesn't pay for health care, still gets care. Make the tax payers cover 100% of it.

But with auto insurance, those who don't need it don't have to get it, you just don't drive, like me. The problem with our medical system is that you need insurance, even for regular checkups, that's over priced, and most of it is profit for the medical institutions. Then when they are forced to lower their prices, they delay treatment until absolutely necessary to gouge the patient's provider. There are most cases of an ailment remaining untreated for far too long simply because the doctors were not doing their jobs.

Now, if we went with a system where they only get paid if the customer is happy, then the medical system would improve, a lot, but that's not what's happening.

<quoted text>But with auto insurance, those who don't need it don't have to get it, you just don't drive, like me. The problem with our medical system is that you need insurance, even for regular checkups, that's over priced, and most of it is profit for the medical institutions. Then when they are forced to lower their prices, they delay treatment until absolutely necessary to gouge the patient's provider. There are most cases of an ailment remaining untreated for far too long simply because the doctors were not doing their jobs.Now, if we went with a system where they only get paid if the customer is happy, then the medical system would improve, a lot, but that's not what's happening.

If you don't drive you do not have to buy insurance and will not get fined. Under the Obama care the government, has set itself up to take real property and jail people for not paying.

It's nothing more than another way to get into your pocket, as desperate as they have become. A huge portion have already said they will opp to pay the fine, because it's cheaper.Not everyone can afford this idiotic plan, that is destine to failure.

<quoted text>If you don't drive you do not have to buy insurance and will not get fined. Under the Obama care the government, has set itself up to take real property and jail people for not paying.It's nothing more than another way to get into your pocket, as desperate as they have become. A huge portion have already said they will opp to pay the fine, because it's cheaper.Not everyone can afford this idiotic plan, that is destine to failure.

Yes, we are in agreement on this. It was a plan formulated by Republicans, ironically, a small fact even the Democrat supporters miss. It's almost identical to the one Mitt Romney drafted and passed in his state.

<quoted text>But with auto insurance, those who don't need it don't have to get it, you just don't drive, like me. The problem with our medical system is that you need insurance, even for regular checkups, that's over priced, and most of it is profit for the medical institutions. Then when they are forced to lower their prices, they delay treatment until absolutely necessary to gouge the patient's provider. There are most cases of an ailment remaining untreated for far too long simply because the doctors were not doing their jobs.Now, if we went with a system where they only get paid if the customer is happy, then the medical system would improve, a lot, but that's not what's happening.

You're making a number of mistakes.

First, you can elect to not have a car. You can not elect to not have "health". You will need medicine at some point because you are alive.

Second, the majority of people who suffer from undiagnosed illnesses that progress too far are that way not because the doctor wasn't doing their job, but because they didn't go see a doctor. Often for years at a time. Why? Because check ups are expensive? Why? Because they don't have insurance.

Third, doctors do not gouge insurance companies for check ups. Yes, there are people making a profit in the industry (pharm for example), but general check ups is not a profit point.

Fourth, it's less expensive for both the consumer and the industry if they see a doctor regularly and get control of issues before they become expensive.

Fifth, giving the consumer the ability to pay "only when happy" is the dumbest thing I have ever heard in my entire life. NO industry would survive that. No restaurant. No dry cleaner. No supermarket. No one.

You HONESTLY think that if you tell people "Hey, go to the supermarket. Take whatever you want. Don't pay if you don't want to" that the supermarket is going to get _better_?

<quoted text>If you don't drive you do not have to buy insurance and will not get fined. Under the Obama care the government, has set itself up to take real property and jail people for not paying.It's nothing more than another way to get into your pocket, as desperate as they have become. A huge portion have already said they will opp to pay the fine, because it's cheaper.Not everyone can afford this idiotic plan, that is destine to failure.

The current system is this:

If you don't want to pay for health care, wait until you have a serious problem, go to the emergency room and stick the tax payer with the bill which will be 10X the amount of money it would normally cost.

There's one city (Seattle?) that did an evaluation of their medical expenditures in emergency rooms and discovered that they could save money by BUYING HOUSES and GIVING THEM to homeless people just to keep the homeless people out of the emergency room.

THAT is a broken system.

Would you rather that everyone be required to get insurance? Or would you rather have a system where you have insurance AND have to pay for someone who doesn't want to get it but still wants coverage AND also buy a homeless guy a house because he doesn't want to work?

<quoted text>The current system is this:If you don't want to pay for health care, wait until you have a serious problem, go to the emergency room and stick the tax payer with the bill which will be 10X the amount of money it would normally cost.There's one city (Seattle?) that did an evaluation of their medical expenditures in emergency rooms and discovered that they could save money by BUYING HOUSES and GIVING THEM to homeless people just to keep the homeless people out of the emergency room.THAT is a broken system.Would you rather that everyone be required to get insurance? Or would you rather have a system where you have insurance AND have to pay for someone who doesn't want to get it but still wants coverage AND also buy a homeless guy a house because he doesn't want to work?

No one is denying that we need to address the problem, we just prefer an actual solution instead of a bandaide that won't fix anything. Duct tape doesn't fix healthcare.

The phrase "free market" is a slogan created by the rich to trick the working class into giving them money.

Every time someone suggests we "let the market take care of it", that same person will be right in front saying that "we can't let X go out of business just because they screwed up."

If we had a REAL free market, we'd be in the middle of a Great Depression right now. There would be one giant bank monopoly that would own everyone's mortgage because they were the only ones to survive the crash and bought up the other banks that weren't saved.

Regulation and oversight is NEEDED to keep things under control.

Imagine "free market" sports. No rules, no referees. No fouls.

The start of the football season would be super exciting.By the end of the season there wouldn't be a single team with enough players still alive to participate in a game.

<quoted text>There is no such thing as a "free market".The phrase "free market" is a slogan created by the rich to trick the working class into giving them money.Every time someone suggests we "let the market take care of it", that same person will be right in front saying that "we can't let X go out of business just because they screwed up."If we had a REAL free market, we'd be in the middle of a Great Depression right now. There would be one giant bank monopoly that would own everyone's mortgage because they were the only ones to survive the crash and bought up the other banks that weren't saved.Regulation and oversight is NEEDED to keep things under control.Imagine "free market" sports. No rules, no referees. No fouls.The start of the football season would be super exciting.By the end of the season there wouldn't be a single team with enough players still alive to participate in a game.

<quoted text>You're making a number of mistakes.First, you can elect to not have a car. You can not elect to not have "health". You will need medicine at some point because you are alive.Second, the majority of people who suffer from undiagnosed illnesses that progress too far are that way not because the doctor wasn't doing their job, but because they didn't go see a doctor. Often for years at a time. Why? Because check ups are expensive? Why? Because they don't have insurance.Third, doctors do not gouge insurance companies for check ups. Yes, there are people making a profit in the industry (pharm for example), but general check ups is not a profit point.Fourth, it's less expensive for both the consumer and the industry if they see a doctor regularly and get control of issues before they become expensive.Fifth, giving the consumer the ability to pay "only when happy" is the dumbest thing I have ever heard in my entire life. NO industry would survive that. No restaurant. No dry cleaner. No supermarket. No one.You HONESTLY think that if you tell people "Hey, go to the supermarket. Take whatever you want. Don't pay if you don't want to" that the supermarket is going to get _better_?They will be out of business in a day and a half.

Pretty good summary.

I would point out that most private practice providers (doctors) have absolutely no say in the rate they are going to be paid by the insurance company.

Until a practice gets larger than 50 or so providers there is no negotiation with the payer (insurance company) and, in most cases a provider signs the payer's contract without any documentation on what the payment will be for any particular procedure.

Additionally, providers are legally prohibited any form of collective bargaining or sharing of insurance reimbursement information by the Sherman (anti-trust) Act. HOWEVER, insurance companies are exempt from these same restrictions by the McCarran-Ferguson Act.

This "3rd party payer system" is a problem with the industry that has been broken for decades and is not addressed in the Affordable Healthcare Act.

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