"Bounties should be paid for the shooting or trapping of grey squirrels, according to a Conservative MSP";

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/5069276.stm

Full report:
Murdo Fraser said consideration must be given to such measures to preserve numbers of native red squirrels.

The party's deputy leader said that only suitably qualified people with shotgun licences, like gamekeepers, would get the money.

However, an animal protection group said the proposal would lead to "carnage in the countryside".

Scotland is reported to be home to more than 75% of the UK's red squirrel population, however, they have been under threat of being displaced by the non-native grey.

Grey squirrels compete for food with the red squirrels and can carry a virus which kills them.

Scottish Natural Heritage has announced plans for a cull in areas including the north east, Argyll, Loch Lomond and the Highlands, where reds are most under threat and grey squirrels are being shot on sight by patrols in the Borders.
Bounties have previously been paid in the UK but the system was abandoned in the 1950s because of abuse.

Mid Scotland and Fife MSP Mr Fraser said the smaller population could be wiped out unless action is taken and a bounty of a few pounds per grey should be on offer.

He has lodged a motion in the Scottish Parliament seeking the backing of fellow MSPs for his proposal.

He said: "Scotland's red squirrel is now under serious threat from a foreign invader.

"Areas such as Perthshire and Angus are now the frontline for the red squirrel and we are seeing their numbers under threat in these areas."

"This is an absolutely ridiculous idea and it would lead to carnage in the countryside"
Ross Minett
Advocates for Animals

On the proposal for bounties, he said: "It may seem like a drastic step, but the seriousness of the current situation cannot be underestimated.

"Paying bounties to gamekeepers and others to eradicate the grey squirrel in areas where they threaten red squirrels would be a positive and imaginative step to try and tackle this serious issue."

Ross Minett, director of Advocates for Animals, said: "This is an absolutely ridiculous idea and it would lead to carnage in the countryside with every man and his dog out to raise cash from the killing of squirrels.

"Mr Fraser obviously hasn't studied ecology because if he had he would realise that the grey squirrel is here to stay and killing them in vast numbers is not going to remove them.

"It would be a complete waste of time and taxpayers' money."

Well on the one hand i'm thinking "about time!", but on the other hand i'm thinking that although a cull is needed to help halt the rapid progression of grey squirrels across the landscape, we still have to deal with the virus's the grey's spread and the fact that a cull will probably not completely eradicate grey squirrels, even if it will help control and lower their population numbers.

I would not say though that killing them in vast numbers would "be a complete waste of time and taxpayers' money" considering that there are any other real options that are practable or have been thought of at the moment.
On the other hand, such a cull as proposed in the article would probably be unorganised- on the other hand it would help give more of an idea of teh extent of grey squirrel populations in various areas. IMO, if there is to be a cull it should be done as efficiently and organised as posible.
For more info on the red squirrel crisis;

Red squirrel extinction warning;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/4747984.stm

Squirrel pox threat;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/cumbria/4247966.stm

Grey squirrels were introduced from america to britain in the 1800's.
Grey squirrels are more agressive, more hardy/tough and more efficient are digesting acorns and large seeds that the native red squirrels eat.
Grey squirrels also live longer than red squirrels, grow larger than reds, can breed more times per year, and tend to displace reds where ever they encounter them in their habitats.

Grey squirrel file;

http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/wildfacts/factfiles/190.shtml

Red squirrel file;

http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/wildfacts/factfiles/191.shtml

Chris

26-06-09, 23:55

I agree with it. To sit passively by will ultimately lead to the extinction of the Red Squirrel.

Barros Serrano

08-07-09, 00:13

There are so many example of the ecological disasters which ensue when non-Native species are introduced. The rabbits in Australia come to mind...

In N America there are many non-Native plants progressively reducing the habitat of native species. The worst of these is probably the kudzu.

As for the British squirrels... China once had a campaign to eliminate the snails which carry schistosomiasis, which live in irrigation canals. They decreed that everyone would go out and kill snails on a certain day. This worked at least in the short term, I don't know if it was a permanent solution or not.

But it occurs to me that if they had a "trap the greys" day, the trapped squirrels could be sorted, the reds caught released, and the greys humanely killed for fur (to avoid the entire country out in the woods shooting each other)... some wealth would be produced, and the grey population would be drastically curtailed. Repeating this in a month, and again in 2 months, would probably all but eliminate them.

It's worth a try...

Flanker27

19-08-09, 23:24

Hands off the adorable gray squirrels, you despicable barbarians in Great Britain ! The real reason you barbarians kill those beautiful-in-and-out animals is your animosity toward the American people. You barbarians consider those valuable animals the AMERICAN INVASION!

The argument of gray squirrels being nonnative to the Great Britain is TOTALLY IRRELATIVE – gray squirrels have existed in that country for around 130 years!!! Considering that fact, the squirrel murdering subhumans who use that nonnativeness argument to justify killing of grays are deranged or evil; no other way!

Gray squirrels DO NOT DESTROY the woodland habitat. Barking trees does not cause destruction of the woodlands. On the other hand, debarked trees create a favorable environment for fungi and invertebrates to grow that attract birds feeding on them.

The main reason that the red squirrels moved north up to Scotland is because that is where the coniferous trees grow. Blame the deforestation and planting of deciduous trees in England by your fellow conservationists.

What barbaric, senseless idea is it anyway to value trees more than the most adorable animals on earth!

There has not been a huge number of red squirrels that died from the parapox virus (I grief for each one of them). There is evidence that they are starting to develop immunity to it. That’s exactly how it used to be with the gray squirrels (some of them are still dying from that virus). The parapox virus is NOT a threat to survival of the red squirrel as a species.

To all people with their humanity intact it should be totally obvious that squirrels were not created for the purpose of hunting. In terms of human depravity eating squirrels is just one step below cannibalism.

The gray squirrels DO NOT eradicate the super-adorable red squirrels. Red squirrels simply run away from the grays, as the latter are stronger genetically. The way to preserve the reds is to focus ON THEM, on building the favorable to them habitat, not to focus murderously on the grays. The number one killer of the squirrels are the bandit-drivers on the streets and roads. Conduct an educational campaign for them to stop killing squirrels. Put up “STOP for squirrels” road signs. Exterminate natural killers of squirrels – raccoons, hawks, falcons, eagles, etc. Protect and feed everywhere the adorable squirrels; ALL OF THEM!

You are lucky squirrel-murdering bandits I don’t live in your decadent country. If I caught you killing squirrels, it would be YOU who would be hunted by me, after being given one warning to stop.

You British people have shown lastly your national character: You are filled with hostility and resentment against the American cultural invasion insomuch that you have been willing to take them on the poor, innocent, beautiful, adorable animal – the gray squirrel!

Chris

20-08-09, 11:07

Hands off the adorable gray squirrels, you despicable barbarians in Great Britain ! The real reason you barbarians kill those beautiful-in-and-out animals is your animosity toward the American people. You barbarians consider those valuable animals the AMERICAN INVASION!

The argument of gray squirrels being nonnative to the Great Britain is TOTALLY IRRELATIVE – gray squirrels have existed in that country for around 130 years!!! Considering that fact, the squirrel murdering subhumans who use that nonnativeness argument to justify killing of grays are deranged or evil; no other way!

Gray squirrels DO NOT DESTROY the woodland habitat. Barking trees does not cause destruction of the woodlands. On the other hand, debarked trees create a favorable environment for fungi and invertebrates to grow that attract birds feeding on them.

The main reason that the red squirrels moved north up to Scotland is because that is where the coniferous trees grow. Blame the deforestation and planting of deciduous trees in England by your fellow conservationists.

What barbaric, senseless idea is it anyway to value trees more than the most adorable animals on earth!

There has not been a huge number of red squirrels that died from the parapox virus (I grief for each one of them). There is evidence that they are starting to develop immunity to it. That’s exactly how it used to be with the gray squirrels (some of them are still dying from that virus). The parapox virus is NOT a threat to survival of the red squirrel as a species.

To all people with their humanity intact it should be totally obvious that squirrels were not created for the purpose of hunting. In terms of human depravity eating squirrels is just one step below cannibalism.

The gray squirrels DO NOT eradicate the super-adorable red squirrels. Red squirrels simply run away from the grays, as the latter are stronger genetically. The way to preserve the reds is to focus ON THEM, on building the favorable to them habitat, not to focus murderously on the grays. The number one killer of the squirrels are the bandit-drivers on the streets and roads. Conduct an educational campaign for them to stop killing squirrels. Put up “STOP for squirrels” road signs. Exterminate natural killers of squirrels – raccoons, hawks, falcons, eagles, etc. Protect and feed everywhere the adorable squirrels; ALL OF THEM!

You are lucky squirrel-murdering bandits I don’t live in your decadent country. If I caught you killing squirrels, it would be YOU who would be hunted by me, after being given one warning to stop.

You British people have shown lastly your national character: You are filled with hostility and resentment against the American cultural invasion insomuch that you have been willing to take them on the poor, innocent, beautiful, adorable animal – the gray squirrel!

You are either poor at sarcasm, or need a long holiday.

Cambrius (The Red)

20-08-09, 16:42

Hands off the adorable gray squirrels, you despicable barbarians in Great Britain ! The real reason you barbarians kill those beautiful-in-and-out animals is your animosity toward the American people. You barbarians consider those valuable animals the AMERICAN INVASION!

The argument of gray squirrels being nonnative to the Great Britain is TOTALLY IRRELATIVE – gray squirrels have existed in that country for around 130 years!!! Considering that fact, the squirrel murdering subhumans who use that nonnativeness argument to justify killing of grays are deranged or evil; no other way!

Gray squirrels DO NOT DESTROY the woodland habitat. Barking trees does not cause destruction of the woodlands. On the other hand, debarked trees create a favorable environment for fungi and invertebrates to grow that attract birds feeding on them.

The main reason that the red squirrels moved north up to Scotland is because that is where the coniferous trees grow. Blame the deforestation and planting of deciduous trees in England by your fellow conservationists.

What barbaric, senseless idea is it anyway to value trees more than the most adorable animals on earth!

There has not been a huge number of red squirrels that died from the parapox virus (I grief for each one of them). There is evidence that they are starting to develop immunity to it. That’s exactly how it used to be with the gray squirrels (some of them are still dying from that virus). The parapox virus is NOT a threat to survival of the red squirrel as a species.

To all people with their humanity intact it should be totally obvious that squirrels were not created for the purpose of hunting. In terms of human depravity eating squirrels is just one step below cannibalism.

The gray squirrels DO NOT eradicate the super-adorable red squirrels. Red squirrels simply run away from the grays, as the latter are stronger genetically. The way to preserve the reds is to focus ON THEM, on building the favorable to them habitat, not to focus murderously on the grays. The number one killer of the squirrels are the bandit-drivers on the streets and roads. Conduct an educational campaign for them to stop killing squirrels. Put up “STOP for squirrels” road signs. Exterminate natural killers of squirrels – raccoons, hawks, falcons, eagles, etc. Protect and feed everywhere the adorable squirrels; ALL OF THEM!

You are lucky squirrel-murdering bandits I don’t live in your decadent country. If I caught you killing squirrels, it would be YOU who would be hunted by me, after being given one warning to stop.

You British people have shown lastly your national character: You are filled with hostility and resentment against the American cultural invasion insomuch that you have been willing to take them on the poor, innocent, beautiful, adorable animal – the gray squirrel!

That's an interesting response that comes across as highly judgemental and disparaging of an entire nation, couched in highly emotive language. For my part, you no longer warrant the oxygen to your irrational fire that further responses would provide.

Cambrius (The Red)

27-08-09, 02:45

That's an interesting response that comes across as highly judgemental and disparaging of an entire nation, couched in highly emotive language. For my part, you no longer warrant the oxygen to your irrational fire that further responses would provide.
Good decision... :good_job:

This is interesting: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article6426717.ece

If landowners do what is suggested, it will go a long way to redressing the balance.

Flanker27

28-08-09, 21:33

The grey squirrels have created ecological problems in England. What do you suggest the Brits do?

Cambria Red, the gray squirrels DID NOT create any ecological problem in Great Britain! It’s a lie perpetrated by the gray squirrel-hating, evil lunatics to justify their mass-murder of those squirrels. They are the descendants of the RED SQUIRREL (British) haters from the first two decades of the last century, who were calling those RED SQUIRRELS tree rats and pests, and who were murdering those RED SQUIRRELS by the thousands!

To help the red squirrels multiply:

1.Implement mass-planting of coniferous, walnut, pecan, and hazel trees
2.Build squirrel feeding stations in all coniferous and mixed woodlands
3.Change traffic laws – make squirrel-right-of-way the rule
4.Educate drivers of automobiles about behavior of squirrels on streets and roads (in face of danger, instead of speeding away squirrels frequently stop in place paralyzed by fear)
5.Put up “Drivers STOP for squirrels!” road signs in all park and woodland areas
6.Increase spending on squirrel pox research

Chris, it is without precedent that for all practical consideration the WHOLE (British) nation has turned its sick, pathological hatred and blood-thirst against an animal species. You and your fellow squirrel mass-murderers acting as if nothing happened only confirm my accusations of your being depraved and evil.

Maciamo, of course I do not value the European squirrels less than the American squirrels. The point is that THERE IS NO NEED WHATSOEVER to murder the grays to save the reds! All that’s needed is GOOD WILL AND RESOURCEFULLNESS!

Incidentally, the correct spelling is “gray”, not “grey”. It denotes the fact that the gray squirrels differ from other squirrel subspecies in more aspects than just the color of their fur.

Chris, it is without precedent that for all practical consideration the WHOLE (British) nation has turned its sick, pathological hatred and blood-thirst against an animal species. You and your fellow squirrel mass-murderers acting as if nothing happened only confirm my accusations of your being depraved and evil.

Have you even been to Britain ? There is scarcely a more nature loving nation than the Brits. That's where environmental and new age movements started. The UK probably produces more documentary about nature per capita than any other country. It's also where people watch them the most.

While the USA is still in a phase of environmental deterioration, with thousands of acres of forest being destroyed each year by loggers and road builders, and gun-happy people shooting birds and other creatures into extinction, Britain is one of the few countries on Earth where a major improvement can be observed over the last 2 or 3 decades. Rivers that were dead owing to industrial pollution are now clean and teaming with life again. Many species of birds and mammals that were endangered 20 years ago have grown back to safe numbers.

Incidentally, the correct spelling is “gray”, not “grey”. It denotes the fact that the gray squirrels differ from other squirrel subspecies in more aspects than just the color of their fur.

Gray is the American spelling. Grey is the British spelling.

Flanker27

31-08-09, 23:36

With exception of a transfer-stop at the airport in London I have never been in Great Britain.

The British people love the nature? How come they hate that exceptional part of their nature called the gray squirrel?

British achievements in restoring and protecting their environment do not justify whatsoever their monumental, systemic atrocity against the gray squirrels they have been committing.

In contrast to Great Britain, there has never been an incident in the USA, where a whole state, let alone the whole country attempted extermination of a total population of such valuable species as squirrels.

There have been, tragically, cases of local governments killing off hundreds of squirrels; for instance in the city of Spokane, Washington. I sent three emails and made three calls to that city officials calling them despicable bandits and mass-murderers of ground squirrels, and demanding that they dare never again repeat that atrocity. Unfortunately, I learned of that mass-murder after two weeks only; otherwise I would have gone to that city to stop physically those despicable murderers.

Chris

02-09-09, 19:12

In contrast to Great Britain, there has never been an incident in the USA, where a whole state, let alone the whole country attempted extermination of a total population of such valuable species as squirrels.

I can't resist: Try telling that to the peoples of the First Nations:
http://nationalhumanitiescenter.org/tserve/nattrans/ntecoindian/essays/buffalo.htm

Maciamo

02-09-09, 19:31

I can't resist: Try telling that to the peoples of the First Nations:
http://nationalhumanitiescenter.org/tserve/nattrans/ntecoindian/essays/buffalo.htm

One of many species brought to extinction (or near extinction in this case) by the American people. Add to that dozens of bird species like the passenger pigeon or the beautiful Carolina parakeet killed just because they were easy targets.

Check this list of extinct animals of North America (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_extinct_animals_of_North_America).

Flanker27

04-09-09, 22:09

The tragic story of the near extinction of the Buffaloes was not an ATTEMPT OF EXTERMINATION OF THE TOTAL POPULATION OF THAT SPECIES. It was a case of barbaric excesses of hunting by the Indians and the European settlers.

It is two aspects of the mass-murder of gray squirrels in Great Britain that hit me especially hard: That the murderers take their animosity against some people (the Americans) on the tiny, innocent squirrels – “it’s the AMERICAN invasion!” The murderers CANNOT HELP but let show that animosity in their murder arguments against the gray squirrels. It is explicit or implicit.

The second aspect is that the mass-murder is GOVERNMENT SPONSORED, including by that royal parasite prince Charles. He dared even try to score some ethicality points by this disgraceful occasion, by having proclaimed that he killed the gray squirrels at his estate HUMANELY!

Chris

04-09-09, 22:36

An American site with some interesting squirrel recipes:
http://www.backwoodsbound.com/zsquir.html

Chris

04-09-09, 22:44

The tragic story of the near extinction of the Buffaloes was not an ATTEMPT OF EXTERMINATION OF THE TOTAL POPULATION OF THAT SPECIES. It was a case of barbaric excesses of hunting by the Indians and the European settlers.

It is two aspects of the mass-murder of gray squirrels in Great Britain that hit me especially hard: That the murderers take their animosity against some people (the Americans) on the tiny, innocent squirrels – “it’s the AMERICAN invasion!” The murderers CANNOT HELP but let show that animosity in their murder arguments against the gray squirrels. It is explicit or implicit.

The second aspect is that the mass-murder is GOVERNMENT SPONSORED, including by that royal parasite prince Charles. He dared even try to score some ethicality points by this disgraceful occasion, by having proclaimed that he killed the gray squirrels at his estate HUMANELY!

All you've got is opinions based on emotion:

1. The Indians never over-hunted. Never. Of all peoples in the Americas, they had the most elevated sense of harmony with nature.

2. Grey squirrels in the UK are legally classified as vermin based on their ecological damage. Not because they are 'American'. There are many enlightened, kind, educated and logical Americans. Learn from them.

3. The Royal family form no part of British government. The Queen is the constitutional head of state - a ceremonial role in all but name.

4. There are ample records that show that the US government, military, cattle barons and railroad companies wiped out entire areas of buffalo as a means of subjugating and "eliminating the red man". We call it ethnic cleansing these days. Just Google the subject to find the sources. There are many of them.

As I say, all you've got is opinions. It's useful to have facts. Unless of course, you're content coming across as an emotional, ignorant and irrational person.

Flanker27

10-09-09, 05:18

All you've got is opinions based on emotion:

1. The Indians never over-hunted. Never. Of all peoples in the Americas, they had the most elevated sense of harmony with nature.

2. Grey squirrels in the UK are legally classified as vermin based on their ecological damage. Not because they are 'American'. There are many enlightened, kind, educated and logical Americans. Learn from them.

3. The Royal family form no part of British government. The Queen is the constitutional head of state - a ceremonial role in all but name.

4. There are ample records that show that the US government, military, cattle barons and railroad companies wiped out entire areas of buffalo as a means of subjugating and "eliminating the red man". We call it ethnic cleansing these days. Just Google the subject to find the sources. There are many of them.

As I say, all you've got is opinions. It's useful to have facts. Unless of course, you're content coming across as an emotional, ignorant and irrational person.

You are falsifying records of history. The American Indians behaved routinely like barbarians because they WERE barbarians. From the aforementioned website on the story of the American buffalo:

“Many European observers were struck by gourmandizing as well as by what struck them as subsequent "profligacy" or "indolence." At times, Indians used everything. But on occasions they did not, and the observers remarked upon "putrified carcasses," animals left untouched, or Indians who took only "the best parts of the meat." Sometimes Indians were said to kill "whole herds" only for the fat-filled tongues”

You are not succeeding with your trying to justify the British wanton mass-murder of the gray squirrels by diverting the attention to other atrocities against various animals committed throughout the ages by people all over the world.

My comment on the British treatment of, and approach to the gray squirrels did not refer to how they are CLASSIFIED LEGALLY. It referred to the British ATTITUDE to, and the REAL reasons of their hostility, hatred of the gray squirrels. Yes, while talking about the “problem” of the gray squirrels, the British people cannot help but give away hints that the actual reason for their hostility and hatred against the innocent gray squirrels is their considering those squirrels the AMERICAN INVASION!

Regarding the “ecological damage” being done by the gray squirrels: The pathological haters of the gray squirrels routinely exaggerate by multiple factors the damage gray squirrels do to their habitats. For instance, they claim that squirrels destroy woodlands by barking trees. The fact of reality is that such occasional barking DOE’S NOT cause the whole areas of trees to die off. Another proof of how irrational and evil the arguments of the enemies of the gray squirrels are: They “forget” opportunely that all, or maybe almost all, wild animals cause some environmental damage!

Talking about facts: While from what I could surmise it is the majority of the people of Great Britain who have been depraved enough to go along with the mass-murder of the gray squirrels, there are some exceptions among them. One such is Professor Acorn (Grey-Squirrel.org.uk - Professor Acorn's We're as native as you!). His facts are well researched; he himself comes across as credible, sincere, honest, objective and morally-healthy. I recommend getting acquainted with his work to you and all other demagogues living the lie.

Here is the message I sent yesterday to that American para-cannibalism site “BACKWARDbound.com”:

“You accursed, despicable, depraved barbarians! You obviously are too immoral to realize that squirrels were NOT created for hunting, let alone eating. Just because you are primitive, backward and stupid is no excuse to continue your caveman tradition.

Don’t dare touch ever again any of the adorable squirrels!”

It is because of the gigantic scope and the unmatched (in the civilized world) immorality in treatment of animals that I have been focusing lately the bulk of my wrath on the BRITISH murderers of the squirrels. I don’t spare other, such murderers, though, including the American ones. Read my (I am “Flankersquirrels” there) comments on YouTube’s Squirrel Hunting, to see how I attack the American primitive, despicable, depraved squirrel-murdering barbarians!

Chris

10-09-09, 11:40

You are falsifying records of history. The American Indians behaved routinely like barbarians because they WERE barbarians. From the aforementioned website on the story of the American buffalo:

“Many European observers were struck by gourmandizing as well as by what struck them as subsequent "profligacy" or "indolence." At times, Indians used everything. But on occasions they did not, and the observers remarked upon "putrified carcasses," animals left untouched, or Indians who took only "the best parts of the meat." Sometimes Indians were said to kill "whole herds" only for the fat-filled tongues”

Call that evidence? You're still only ranting. Have a nice time with it.

Cambrius (The Red)

10-09-09, 15:20

Come on guys.

Chris

26-09-09, 14:43

A recent update on the collaborative approach by various agencies:
http://www.farmersguardian.com/agreement-on-wholesale-cull%E2%80%A6of-grey-squirrels/26831.article

Flanker27

06-10-09, 04:48

Thank you British people for having shown your national character even more bluntly. What you have perpetrated is a TOTALLY UNJUSTIFIABLE MASS-MURDER OF THE INNOCENT, ADORABLE, VALUABLE GRAY SQUIRRELS!

You have been producing a plentiful of fake reasons to eradicate the gray squirrels, when in reality there is only one real reason of the same: YOU HAVE UNLOADED YOUR ANTI-AMERICAN SENTIMENTS ON THE POOR, WONDERFUL GRAY SQUIRRELS BECAUSE YOU SEE THEM AS THE AMERICAN INVASION!!!

The majority of you British people, who have been supporting the mass-murder of the beautiful gray squirrels, proved to be DESPICABLE, DEPRAVED, IMMORAL, EVIL, CYNICAL, POOR-IN-THE-SPIRIT BARBARIANS!

Too bad the Nazis didn’t annihilate your accursed nation. There would have been a huge chance that the special gray squirrels would be still alive today, considering that Adolf Hitler loved animals.

You country should be invaded NOW by civilized people to punish all the contemptible murderers of the human-friendly gray squirrels!

Cambrius (The Red)

06-10-09, 14:51

This is totally ridiculous. I hardly think that the Brits have it in for the grey squirrel because it is native to America. I know the U.S and its people very well. I live in the country half the year and received all of my higher education there. In my opinion, the U.S. has harmed wildlife much more than the British. Perhaps almost as much as the Chinese, who essentially have little or no respect for nature.