White Deer cars more information"Horatio (12-1), McClellanville (12-1), Torrance (12-1), Urbana (12-1), and Voyager (10 Section 4 Duplex single rooms). This is from an old field trip, McClellanville I assume is what I show for Principio.

ROALD AMUNDSEN is currently located at McCormick-Stillman Railroad Park in Scottsdale, Arizona. IIRC, she's owned by the City of Scottsdale and is open to the public on certain dates. I forget if anyone mentioned the Robert Peary in this post, but it's located at Campo. Pretty interesting that all four of the Presidential Pullmans still survive.

_________________"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."- Conductor Nimrod Bell, 1896

Tim Andrews

Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars

Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 9:07 pm

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:04 amPosts: 84

I think there is too much coffee in Seattle but we can thank that for all the work being done to make these lists possible.

First the Mountain Road (younger members of TVRM at the time called it the Mountain Wreck) and Lake Moreau (10-2-1 blt 1923 later SOU 2420) went to Cincinnati after the TVRM bankruptcy in the 1980s. They are shjown on the website for the Railway Museum of Greater Cincinnati (in Latonia, KY) along with:

Lake Mansfield 10-2-1 1926Overdale 14 secJovita 12-1 1914

Maitland is the only Pullman car in sleeper configuration at TVRM. We have eight other cars that were built by the Southern from Pullman cars (three coaches, four baggage and one theater car). Do we really want to list all of them, or just surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping cars[u]?[/u]. If we go away from sleeping cars the list of survivors will go up considerably but, maybe that's OK.

Tim Andrews

_________________Tim Andrews
Chattanooga, TN

jmlaboda

Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars

Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:13 pm

Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:31 amPosts: 366Location: Morganton, N.C.

"99. City of Peru... (to be refurbished by Pete Messina as sleeper)"

I wouldn't hold my breath on this one. Not only is the car in bad shape but the shake-up with the NOPB's management about two years ago have called into question not only the millions (plural) of dollars spent on "98. City of Lafayette" and "100. City of Wabash" but their possible future. Last I have heard the two refurbished cars being used for special occasions but no images of the cars have been posted since the shake-up and there was talk of them being sold off if a buyer or buyers could be found.

While we are at it does anyone know anything about the Cumberland Club that sees use on the Winchester & Western? This is not the correct name for the car (the prototype was a 8 Section - buffet lounge that was sold to the B&O)...

141. Mystery Car--the website also lists another surviving PRR sleeper, name Hazelton, a Plan #2410 12S-1DR built in 1910 and assigned to the PRR--later rebuilt to a Tourist sleeper, and sold to the GM&O or Columbus & Greenville, ending up in MofW service--car was acquired by the Portsmouth Chapter NRHS and was stored in Norfolk as of 2000 (when the list was typed up)--another list of extant PRR cars also has the same sleeper listed. However, this car does not have an entry in Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database. Hmm. Is the Hazelton a wood car with steel sheathing?? (That would explain its absence from the Pullman Project, which starts with the all-steel heavyweights.)_________________Happy New Year!!

_________________Ted Brumberg

jmlaboda

Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars

Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:59 pm

Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:31 amPosts: 366Location: Morganton, N.C.

"141. Mystery Car--the website also lists another surviving PRR sleeper, name Hazelton, a Plan #2410 12S-1DR built in 1910 and assigned to the PRR--later rebuilt to a Tourist sleeper, and sold to the GM&O or Columbus & Greenville, ending up in MofW service--car was acquired by the Portsmouth Chapter NRHS and was stored in Norfolk as of 2000 (when the list was typed up)--another list of extant PRR cars also has the same sleeper listed. However, this car does not have an entry in Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database. Hmm. Is the Hazelton a wood car with steel sheathing?? (That would explain its absence from the Pullman Project, which starts with the all-steel heavyweights.)"

There is a Pullman car named Haselton, that is on the Bay Coast Rwy. out of Little Creek, Va., that is owned by the Tidewater Chapter NRHS... formerly owned by the Seaboard Air Line 70673, exx-PULL TC 1527 after being Haselton...

Just as a note, the Palm Lane is only on lease to IPH. The CNY Chapter did not want to let it go. Also of note in NY is the Glen Sidel?, located in Remsen, NY and from what I understand it is also going to IPH.

141. Mystery Car--the website also lists another surviving PRR sleeper, name Hazelton, a Plan #2410 12S-1DR built in 1910 and assigned to the PRR--later rebuilt to a Tourist sleeper, and sold to the GM&O or Columbus & Greenville, ending up in MofW service--car was acquired by the Portsmouth Chapter NRHS and was stored in Norfolk as of 2000 (when the list was typed up)--another list of extant PRR cars also has the same sleeper listed. However, this car does not have an entry in Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database. Hmm. Is the Hazelton a wood car with steel sheathing?? (That would explain its absence from the Pullman Project, which starts with the all-steel heavyweights.)

What you list as the Portsmouth Chapter NRHS is actually the Tidewater Chapter, which had a substantial collection of passenger rolling stock in the 1980s and 1990s stored largely at Cape Charles and Little Creek, Va.--opposite ends of the Chesapeake Bay car float ferry--a subject for another time, I'd guess.....

Now, the PRR (later PC and CR) had a Haselton Yard in Youngstown, Ohio, a small yard serving a couple steel mills there........ whereas Hazleton, in the coal regions near Wilkes-Barre and Scranton, was the end of a PRR-sponsored line up from Sunbury into the "coal regions". Neither is likely to have warranted a Pullman named after it alone, so.....

Thought somebody from IRM might chime in here, but since they haven't, a bit of clarification on the Inglehome. The actual name of the organization was the Illini Railroad Club (not the Illinois RR Club) and the car when owned by them was known as Chief Illini. When operated by them, she was painted orange with blue trim, the colors of the University of Illinois.

Les

jmlaboda

Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars

Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 11:20 pm

Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:31 amPosts: 366Location: Morganton, N.C.

"Note the caption indicating the ex-SAL origins and the misspelling (intentional?) of "Haselton"."

The problem is that the car's name is not mispelled. In both the book, The Complete List of Heavyweight Pullman Cars and in Tom Madden's Pullman Cae Construction Records the name is spelled with an "S".

So the history recounted at the PRR Survivors website about the car being PRR Hazleton then GM&O or C&G before being acquired by the Tidewater NRHS is in conflict with the photo captions saying the red car in Little Creek is a former SAL car. Anyone want to sort through that mess?

My presumption was that there might have actually been a "Hazleton" and that "Haselton" might have been a creative liberty taken by a later PV owner--they do such things now and then, you know.....

RDGRAILFAN

Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars

Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 12:45 am

Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2005 9:23 amPosts: 143Location: willow grove pa

again my research but may info shed some light and does not confuse things: Pullman's "Hazelton - unable to locate SAL# or name, web has spelling errors but same car, apparently was SAL at one time. Only reference is Hazelton . Sleeper (paint PRR) was assigned to assigned to PRR for a period of time configuration 12-1 1910 NRHS - Portsmouth Norfolk, VA Stored Built as Pullman's "Hazelton;" rebuilt 1940 as a 12-1 NO REFERENCE, 2 CARS ON SITE, car is panted in PRR paint with a baggage car. Visited site, no pictures, No one around to answer questions. Not in bad shape from my view point.

VILLA REAL - Sleeper, P3411 1910 owners of record Herman Page & Al Sauer, Raleigh, NC, not sure of how complete restoration is, I was in Raleigh area in spring of 2013 was told car was moved.I show cross reference to PULLMAN (G)LENOVER #8803, name change? or wrong on my part.Apparently was in Raleigh for some time but has been moved to North Alabama Railroad Museum (6/13 first reference) http://www.northalabamarailroadmuseum.com/equip.htm

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