thickfreakness wrote:I don't think eliminating the government from the loan picture would help prospective law students. Just like a house and land are the collateral for a mortgage loan, the government's underwriting of educational lenders is a kind of collateral for those lenders.

For me, the earning power provided by the JD should be the collateral.

EDIT: I realize this would not be sufficient for 180k loans, since even with a good job defaulting could bve an attractive option. But if the principal was much lower, it likely would not be worthwhile to declare bankruptcy with a good income.

EDIT 2: Or maybe the bar could attach a stipulation that anyone who defaults on LS loans would be disbarred to reassure creditors

So... the government no longer guarantees loans but the bar does?

Not really. The bar will not secure the loans. They basically would just say that you can't practice if you default on LS debt. Someone could still default and the lending institution would be on the hook, that person just couldn't practice as a lawyer. This would eliminate the hazard of employeed attorneys saying "eff it, I'm not paying my loans".

Stringer Bell wrote:EDIT 2: Or maybe the bar could attach a stipulation that anyone who defaults on LS loans would be disbarred to reassure creditors

...

This would eliminate the hazard of employeed attorneys saying "eff it, I'm not paying my loans".

This wouldn't do anything for creditors. People don't default on loans because they've got some sort of objection to paying them back. They usually default because they can't physically pay. And if they can't pay creditors usually sell the accounts to collections agency and they garnish wages, etc. to get as much as possible. Disbarring someone for defaulting would only lessen the likelihood that the lender would collect that much more. This isn't 18th century England, we can't socially ostracize debtors and send them to Australia, it's not good policy. From an economic standpoint, this approach would result in much more loss.

Stringer Bell wrote:I do agree that it would have still become somewhat inflated and would be an issue now, but I personally don't think it would have swelled nearly as much as it has.

The thing is, even if it hadn't swelled as much, it still would've been swollen. I'm not saying the circumstances would've been the same, maybe folks wouldn't have been able to get financing to attend TTT/T4 schools and those schools would've started closing. But even just on the basis of the T2 and lower T1 schools that they would've continued financing, that would've been millions and millions of dollars poured into educational loans for folks that suddenly couldn't get employed when they graduated.

And without government backing, those schools would just simply not have any money when folks started defaulting. And given how badly banks have been hurting from the subprime mess, it wouldn't take that much to take down many of them that stayed afloat.

Stringer Bell wrote:EDIT 2: Or maybe the bar could attach a stipulation that anyone who defaults on LS loans would be disbarred to reassure creditors

...

This would eliminate the hazard of employeed attorneys saying "eff it, I'm not paying my loans".

This wouldn't do anything for creditors. People don't default on loans because they've got some sort of objection to paying them back. They usually default because they can't physically pay. And if they can't pay creditors usually sell the accounts to collections agency and they garnish wages, etc. to get as much as possible. Disbarring someone for defaulting would only lessen the likelihood that the lender would collect that much more. This isn't 18th century England, we can't socially ostracize debtors and send them to Australia, it's not good policy. From an economic standpoint, this approach would result in much more loss.

I agree inability to pay is the reason most people default on loans, and there are definitely ethical implications to having any sort of punitive measure attached to loan default, but I disagree with your assertion that it wouldn't do anything for creditors. As you have pointed out, a big problem for them making a loan would be that there is no collateral to secure the loan with. Essentially, you are now making the JD the collateral. The decision to report you to the bar and take back your JD would lie with the creditor. If they didn't have that option, and bankruptcy was an option, even someone with a good job and the ability to pay their loan back could decide that they would prefer to declare bankruptcy if the amount that they owed was big enough. This wouldn't be as extreme as debtor's prison. You could work in any other field, just not as an attorney. However, you may be right and that may not be ethical.

Stringer Bell wrote:I do agree that it would have still become somewhat inflated and would be an issue now, but I personally don't think it would have swelled nearly as much as it has.

The thing is, even if it hadn't swelled as much, it still would've been swollen. I'm not saying the circumstances would've been the same, maybe folks wouldn't have been able to get financing to attend TTT/T4 schools and those schools would've started closing. But even just on the basis of the T2 and lower T1 schools that they would've continued financing, that would've been millions and millions of dollars poured into educational loans for folks that suddenly couldn't get employed when they graduated.

And without government backing, those schools would just simply not have any money when folks started defaulting. And given how badly banks have been hurting from the subprime mess, it wouldn't take that much to take down many of them that stayed afloat.

Fair enough. I'm not conceding, but I understand your perspective and I have to head out for the night.

I'm definitely excited for beer & softball, I'm heading out there to visit a week from Sunday for a few days... I've never been before, anything you guys recommend checking out?

I'm also going to try & figure out housing while I'm there. After reading these boards I'm kind of worried that I might not be able to get into any of the good places since its almost March, where do you recommend looking/where do 1Ls typically want to be? I know this has been asked & answered before I guess I'm just looking for reassurance that I'll find somewhere to live next year haha

michstudent10 wrote:I'm definitely excited for beer & softball, I'm heading out there to visit a week from Sunday for a few days... I've never been before, anything you guys recommend checking out?

I'm also going to try & figure out housing while I'm there. After reading these boards I'm kind of worried that I might not be able to get into any of the good places since its almost March, where do you recommend looking/where do 1Ls typically want to be? I know this has been asked & answered before I guess I'm just looking for reassurance that I'll find somewhere to live next year haha

I love softball. I am sad though as I talk to 1L's at various law schools because I have no idea how I will fit it into the 14 hr class/study days it sounds like I will have at UVA! I am hoping that they are exaggerating how much time they are spending in the books. I really wanna play softball and enjoy C-ville in general!

Muckduck wrote:I love softball. I am sad though as I talk to 1L's at various law schools because I have no idea how I will fit it into the 14 hr class/study days it sounds like I will have at UVA! I am hoping that they are exaggerating how much time they are spending in the books. I really wanna play softball and enjoy C-ville in general!

Muckduck wrote:I love softball. I am sad though as I talk to 1L's at various law schools because I have no idea how I will fit it into the 14 hr class/study days it sounds like I will have at UVA! I am hoping that they are exaggerating how much time they are spending in the books. I really wanna play softball and enjoy C-ville in general!

Muckduck wrote:I love softball. I am sad though as I talk to 1L's at various law schools because I have no idea how I will fit it into the 14 hr class/study days it sounds like I will have at UVA! I am hoping that they are exaggerating how much time they are spending in the books. I really wanna play softball and enjoy C-ville in general!

Muckduck wrote:I love softball. I am sad though as I talk to 1L's at various law schools because I have no idea how I will fit it into the 14 hr class/study days it sounds like I will have at UVA! I am hoping that they are exaggerating how much time they are spending in the books. I really wanna play softball and enjoy C-ville in general!

Do something you love this summer.

Like Koninoor's mom.

O SNAP

I'm dedicating Monday to making sure you get rejected from UVA.

I deserve it. Can't even spell his name correctly. KoHinoor. KoHinoor. H is now my most hated letter.

Although, in my defense, aren't mom jokes a staple of bro's and fratty-ness, things that (at least on these boards) are among UVA's core values?

I got in ED about 2 weeks ago, and it took me a while to get over the initial shock/rejoicing stage. Now I turn to TLS for advice on housing, financial aid and other "admitted student" matters. Is the consensus that Ivy Gardens, Jeffersonian Apartments is the optimal place for a 1L to live? Do you guys think it is better to live in one of places without a car, or a bit farther away from the law school with a car? Other than housing and financial matters, what are you guys doing leading upto law school?