They still have to be followed even though rulers/tape measures are not compulsory in cars.

I don't think you are using a valid comparison. When you have parked the car you have the time to make an estimate of a fixed distance in an environment where you can compare it to surroundings.When moving, you are surrounded by other moving objects, all going at different speeds. Your perception of speed is also skewed by hills and wind. Your mind is also focused much more on its surrounding than estimating the speed. Maybe try and see for yourself how much harder it is to estimate the speed than the distance.In fact, humans have the tendency to underestimate speed and overestimate distance!

They still have to be followed even though rulers/tape measures are not compulsory in cars.

I don't think you are using a valid comparison. When you have parked the car you have the time to make an estimate of a fixed distance in an environment where you can compare it to surroundings.When moving, you are surrounded by other moving objects, all going at different speeds. Your perception of speed is also skewed by hills and wind. Your mind is also focused much more on its surrounding than estimating the speed. Maybe try and see for yourself how much harder it is to estimate the speed than the distance.In fact, humans have the tendency to underestimate speed and overestimate distance!

PAINTED ISLANDSYou must not drive on a section of painted road that is surrounded by double lines. You may drive on a painted island surrounded by single continuous or broken lines to enter or leave the road, or to enter a turning lane that begins immediately after the painted island for up to 50 metres.

What about the 3-foot passing law in some American states (cars need to be 3 feet away from bicycles when overtaking)?

Drunkmonkey wrote:So are the cops going to visit bike shops and tell them they should sell bikes with a bell, as the bike is illegal to ride on a public road/path without one?

ACCC's job, not the police. Not only is it a legal requirement to have a suitable warning device, there is also a legal requirement for bicycles sold in Aus to meet certain safety standards, including being fitted with a bell, brakes, reflectors etc etc. Selling a bike without a bell is illegal under Australian standards(unless it is clearly intended for and marked as a competition bike i.e. track bike). A bike store advising people they must fit a bell does not absolve them of the responsibility to sell the bike with a bell fitted.

What the road rules do not clarify is where such a warning device must be fitted. I know of quite a few people with a bell on their seat stay to keep the plod at bay, and still use their voice as a suitable warning device.

igstar wrote:When moving, you are surrounded by other moving objects, all going at different speeds. Your perception of speed is also skewed by hills and wind. Your mind is also focused much more on its surrounding than estimating the speed. Maybe try and see for yourself how much harder it is to estimate the speed than the distance.In fact, humans have the tendency to underestimate speed and overestimate distance!

My computer has been on the blink for the last 12 months or so. A mate I go riding with often challenges me to guess our speed. Its unusual for me to be more than a couple of k's out when sitting on mid-high 30's. Don't forget the roads were initially for the ole horse and cart, i'm fairly confident they didnt have speedos either but i'm quite confident you still would have copped your right whack from the plod for going too quick. The no speedo argument is mainly used by those who dont want the responsibility of being held to a certain speed IMO. Easy enough to err on the side of caution. Either that or fit a speedo, they can be had for $20.

master6 wrote: Moderators are like Club Handicappers; I often think they are wrong, but I dont want the job.

rsea wrote:thanks for the heads up. I came through there tonight at about 5 and didn't see them. Must've been v.lucky

whats the fine?

One of the blokes on Roadgrime got a $180 + 3 Demerit points (20Km/hr over the speed limit 30 in a 10 zone) and $40 for no bell + 1 Demerit point

Seems pretty steep to me

Tom

As I said before, dont believe everything you hear - the cops werent handing out fines for speeding on Wednesday (but might be in the future). This was sent out via email to all CBD BUG members:

Hello CBD BUG members

This email is to inform members of recent police actions on the Bicentennial Bikeway at Toowong and provide some other news of potential interest.

Regards

Paul FrenchCo-convenorBrisbane CBD BUG

Police stopping â€œspeedingâ€ cyclists at Bicentennial Bikeway works

On Wednesday morning this week at the Regatta Hotel end of the Bicentennial Bikeway works police from the Brisbane West District Traffic Branch were stopping and warning inbound cyclists who were detected as speeding. The cyclists stopped by police who were also found to not have a warning device fitted to their bike e.g. bell or horn, were issued with a $40 fine.

The police have advised that this action was taken as too many cyclists were ignoring directions to slow down for the â€œgo slowâ€ area at the works for the bikeway upgrade, with a police car also parked beside the bikeway before the â€œgo slowâ€ area to put cyclists on notice the police were on site.

The police have indicated they will be conducting further exercises of this type and will in the future be issuing fines for cyclists not observing the â€œgo slowâ€ area.

Both the BCC and site management have indicated to the CBD BUG that they have not raised the issue of cyclists speeding with the police and that the police took this action on their own initiative. However, the site workers do have concerns about the speeds of some cyclists, particularly as the site office and the principal vehicular access to the site are in the area where the police have been operating. Cyclists should also note that at times workers are required to be on the temporary elevated bikeway.

Many cyclists clearly view the current temporary 10 kph speed limit, which is apparently the standard speed limit required by the BCC during such works, as unduly low. The CBD BUG will be seeking a review of this standard.

Nevertheless, in the meantime all cyclists riding in this area during the works process, from which cyclists will be major beneficiaries, are strongly urged to show good judgement in heeding the speed limit signs and thereby both enabling the safety of all people on the bikeway and avoiding potential fines.

My bike came with a bell with a clamp too small to fit around the handlebars. I don't see how being required to have a bell can be better than only being required to have one brake!

I'd much prefer people to attempt to stop using 2 brakes before running into me than taking one hand away from controls to ring a stupid friggan bell, especially because they're only legally required to have 1 brake and that can be on the same side as their bell. Honestly, how can this not be revenue raising when a bell is a higher priority than brakes? Oh and of course the coppers would never even check peoples brakes are even connected though if they see a bell - it's all good.

elantra wrote:Whatever you think of the traffic control and police presence, try to be pleasant to the traffic controllers, they are usually there for 12-14 hour shifts and sometimes in the cold or rain.

+1 to this. I did traffic control in a former life and it's bloody tough work. Especially highway jobs - no breaks, no pit-stops, beating hot sun or pouring, cold rain.. it sucks. Oh, and you get to enjoy drivers cursing at you and spitting on you because you dared to stop them. Come to think of it, those Coro Drive traffic controllers have got it pretty good!

Max

One of the best things about bicycle commuting is that it can mitigate the displeasure of having to go to work. - BikeSnobNYCCycling is sometimes like bobbing for apples in a bucket full of dicks. - SydGuy

The police with radar gun nabbed a guy near the start of the timber temporary path this morning right in front of me. I was going pretty steadily through the tunnel. The police stepped out in front of me to stop the guy coming from Toowong direction. I didn't hang around to see if he got a ticket. I tried my best to ride slowly along the temporary path after that, but found myself doing 20km/h just to stay moving...

BrisVegas wrote:The police with radar gun nabbed a guy near the start of the timber temporary path this morning right in front of me. I was going pretty steadily through the tunnel. The police stepped out in front of me to stop the guy coming from Toowong direction. I didn't hang around to see if he got a ticket. I tried my best to ride slowly along the temporary path after that, but found myself doing 20km/h just to stay moving...

Misuse of police resources.

On a (slightly) related note i recall almost 20 years ago being out on a training ride somewhere near Coro drive while the Police were pulling up cars on Coro drive for speeding.

about 150 metres away in Moorlands park there was a car full of hoons doing big time wheelies on the grass.

"Technology gives us much more information but Education is never be able to give us the skill to evaluate it"

If they were there everyday perhaps yes. But I see people taking unnecessary and frankly unacceptable risks along there virtually everyday. some people need a ticket to wake up, others just need to see someone else getting a ticket ...

BrisVegas wrote: I tried my best to ride slowly along the temporary path after that...

Not saying BrisVegas would have sped or put people at risk but too many people do and the consequences can be very serious. The presence of police does make people think twice about their behavior. A friend of mine was hit by a cyclist on that track 15 years ago and got spun around 180 as she fell and hit the back of her head pretty hard. she ended up in intensive care with head injuries and lost her sense of smell.

Slowing down (even for idiots walking 3 abreast !! etc) and waiting until its safe to pass can be (is) annoying but think about the consequences of a collision and you realise its worth it.

Keep safe folks and remember the cops are there for the greater benefit of all. Obey the law and there won't be an issue. Personally I like to see them down there every now and then.

Although I will concede the location they are targeting cyclists is a bit strange. I come through the tunnel and join Coro drive every day but as I'm approaching from a side street, I naturally assume I have to give way to cyclists already on that path. There must be a speed limit posted further up.

has the path infrastructure on coro drive gotten any better in the 12 or so months since the blitz?why the heck dont they make a wider path and paint one side green (for peds and kids on bikes etc) and one side red (for commuting cyclists).

*bear in mind that i've not ridden coro drive regularly for at least 5 years, and it may be much better than it used to be.

igstar wrote:How can they enforce speed limits for bicycles when speedos are not compulsory?

How can they enforce speed limits for cars, as no car speedo wil be 100% accurate.

As I see it the main reason for this specific blitz is that at the roadwoarks not to many cyclists are willing to slown down.I am pretty sure that you wil know the difference, between riding normal pace, and slowing down to the current conditions.

I doubt they wil be going very strict , and that if you are willing to slow down and are doing 15 instead of 10 they won't book you. (at least I hope...)I think they wil focus on those not willing to slow down at all, and are doing 25-35.

I think the whole police blitz is a good thing in this specific case.

The dutch have one word to describe the aussie MHL, this word is ;SCHIJNVEILIGHEID !!

This is an pretty old thread, is this "blitz" still ongoing or something? Or is there a new one on coro I'm unaware of?

I'll leave my sentiments towards the QLD police force out of the equation...

...

Other than to say ( ) that on the whole their "blitzes" have little logical basis. Then again, I am a motorcyclist - so clearly I am a drug dealing gang member, who is a constant drunk rider and must be pulled over at least twice a week for riding 100% legally... I'm not biased, neither are they

munga wrote:has the path infrastructure on coro drive gotten any better in the 12 or so months since the blitz?why the heck dont they make a wider path and paint one side green (for peds and kids on bikes etc) and one side red (for commuting cyclists).

I don't get in there often, but did last week. It's still closed from the Go Between bridge to somewhere under the freeway overhang, as it was about a month ago too. There were a couple of police in amongst the council workers at the start of the upramp when we passed. They didn't bat an eyelid as my mate continued on through at about 25kph after failing to notice the 10k sign. I, of course, did the right thing.

There are brightly painted lanes on much of it, and people seemed to be taking notice of them, but it wasn't very busy just before noon. On the other side of the river, the boardwalk in front of the art galleries has white lines and painted symbols every 100m or so to "encourage" separation but most pedestrians take absolutely no notice, of anything much at all actually. Then again, going along Southbank is akin to driving through a minefield as far as pedobstacles are concerned, and still some cyclists seem to take it as some kind of challenge to negotiate the maze as fast as possible.

K2 wrote:There are brightly painted lanes on much of it, and people seemed to be taking notice of them, but it wasn't very busy just before noon. On the other side of the river, the boardwalk in front of the art galleries has white lines and painted symbols every 100m or so to "encourage" separation but most pedestrians take absolutely no notice, of anything much at all actually. Then again, going along Southbank is akin to driving through a minefield as far as pedobstacles are concerned, and still some cyclists seem to take it as some kind of challenge to negotiate the maze as fast as possible.

It'll all end in tears....

A large portion of Coro drive is now peds / cycle path separated which is a great improvement as it now clearly defines where every one should be like a highway. Where the path becomes shared or at the least bottle necks, ie near the "Oxley's on the river" Restaurant and where the construction work is taking place, its always best to slow down (i do) but many still don't. In between thease areas where the lanes clearly defined who should be where i cant see why i should not at a comfortable speed.......after all isn't that why they have separated people from bikes in the first place.

The big problem with Coro drive is that it is a well known jogging spot and it is very common to have joggers going laps in the morning and in the afternoon; most often on the cycle path listing to their head phones. most often they stick to the sides and you go around them without incident but i also have had a few near misses due to their sudden change of direction or stopping without reason (to me).

i do feel that stupidity should not go unpunished but it is difficult to educate them on which side of the path they should be on as most simply don't care feeling that its our responsibility to give away to those "not-meant-to-be-on-the-cycle-path-when one-a-footpath-is-provided-no-less-then-5-feet-away" people.

Secondly even if you do have a bell its hard to get their attention with their music blasting away 1 inch away from their ear drums and they still get a start when you ride path them at any speed. its a little worse at night as it can be a bit more difficult to see them as there's no consistent lighting along the path and rarely do they where reflective straps or have lights on them to see them where light in poor.

Its often advertised on TV commercials to educate drivers to be mindful of bikes however nothing to remind people that a footpath is for feet and a cycle path is for wheels. i think painting the cycle path green will be more effective then a symbol painted every hundred meters or so and if possible have a physical separation between the two but nothing will work if it is not drummed into peds to not be where they shouldn't.......after all i can only assume that they do not walk down the middle of a road?

The thick green line, sufficient signage and advertising should work if anything.

I think a police presence would be sufficient to deter speeding along the path should they also be riding along there too, but the issuing of fines is a low blow and simply not necessary when low speeds and a bell will not stop those peds being where they should not be.

i think it takes two to tango and the peds should also be targeted with "J" walking when on the cycle paths.

Stoo wrote:i think it takes two to tango and the peds should also be targeted with "J" walking when on the cycle paths.

Stu.

Hear hear, I don't see why it's so difficult to just run/walk where they are mean't to. It benefits them too... I wonder how the walkers would feel if I rode down the "walkers" side of Coro on my morning loop instead... I'm sure I'd be overwhelmed with angry people who haven't realised cycling is more enjoyable that running yet. Same thing happens here in New Farm, on Bowen Terrace there is a section up the top of the hill near the Story Bridge which has a dedicated cycle footpath, and a walking footpath to it's side - separated by enough foliage to realise it's there for a reason. It isn't coloured but has the white symbols. I ride it 4 times a day usually in the morning and to and from work. Without fail the morning city commuters are always walking on it... When it's bloody ridicules, like 4 people walking side by side and not moving even though they are oncoming and can see me, I often find the time to shout at them. It's more effective than a bell

Generally though, with all this stuff, I try to think practically about it rather than go with "the law", no one will ever stop pedestrians being unobservant, I'd rather make my own luck and carve a path around them. Same way I ride my motorcycle, it does mean breaking the law every now and then, but as far as I'm concerned I'd rather be stupidly defensive/cautious and break a couple of laws doing so than break some bones assuming people will wise up and move.

All of the above is why the current obsession with off road shared paths as the be all and end all of 'cycling infrastructure' is wrong, yes it's great for people who want to ride slowly/kids etc but it is too dangerous for anyone who wants to do more than about 20-25kmh (for the cyclists and the pedestrians). That's exactly why i ride on the road and not on a path.

When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments- Elizabeth West.

Stoo wrote:A large portion of Coro drive is now peds / cycle path separated which is a great improvement as it now clearly defines where every one should be like a highway. Where the path becomes shared or at the least bottle necks, ie near the "Oxley's on the river" Restaurant and where the construction work is taking place, its always best to slow down (i do) but many still don't. In between thease areas where the lanes clearly defined who should be where i cant see why i should not at a comfortable speed.......after all isn't that why they have separated people from bikes in the first place.

Um, yes. I tend to go as fast as my feeble little legs will permit whenever it's safe to do so. My comment about speeding cyclists was in reference to Southbank, which is an entirely different kettle of fish in a barrel.

Just wanted to avoid any confusion.

Stoo wrote:Its often advertised on TV commercials to educate drivers to be mindful of bikes however nothing to remind people that a footpath is for feet and a cycle path is for wheels. i think painting the cycle path green will be more effective then a symbol painted every hundred meters or so and if possible have a physical separation between the two but nothing will work if it is not drummed into peds to not be where they shouldn't.......after all i can only assume that they do not walk down the middle of a road?

They do , you know. I've seen 'em. The Gov probably has too, and has likely given up on pedestrian education as a completely lost cause. Take a walk around your local shopping precinct and even as a fellow pedestrian you'll have trouble passing some of them if you don't adopt similarly erratic behaviour.

Just about anywhere you go there are going to be some people getting around with their brains switched to power saving mode [that's the kind version]. Some will be on foot, and some on two wheels or more. The catch 22 is that those of us with even the most basic sense of awareness and self preservation will avoid them if at all possible, but by doing so we allow them to continue happily along with their utter disregard for anyone but themselves and therefore enable them to continue impeding others, or much, much worse.

As someone who now sports a subluxated ac joint in no small part due to the actions of a boozey boofhead on a shared path, I've become an even more keen observer of pedestrian behaviour. So many do not react in a predictable [or even logical] manner, so it takes something particularly unusual to amaze me these days, but some old codger managed it this week...

I was lapping one of the local parks on road & nicely forested shared path to try and avoid the wind. I did about 30k around a 1.6k circuit so was well aware of who/what was on the path. One particular group consisted of three older folk with a couple of dogs off leash walking along a wind protected section. I'd already employed the bell twice with no result. Ended up passing them whenever an off path escape became available about a dozen times, having patiently dawdled along behind them till safe to do so each time. Once already the old bloke had actually noticed me track standing [just something to do to pass the time] at a safe distance while they checked one of the dogs in the middle of the path. He graciously stepped to one side only to have his Mrs fill the recently created void as soon as I started moving forward.

The kicker came a few laps later when they'd about faced and were coming towards me. I'd already passed them safely a couple of times in this direction once they'd scrambled to control their dogs [there are 2 off leash areas at the entrance to the park btw], but this time they were having a bit more trouble and were all over the path and to my right. I'd already slowed to almost stalling speed 10m before and got off to the left to pass, still very slowly. Just as I was almost level with the old bloke he finally manage to grab the collar of his full sized poodle....and dragged it off the path right in front of my wheel! I think he might even have waved his hand towards the newly vacated space on the path and said "Ta-Da" [er, perhaps I dreamt that bit]. I still managed a completely unsarcastic "Thanks" [No really. I did. I think I might have been having difficulty processing the stupidity.] as I just managed to manoeuvre into it with inches to spare.

I took it as a sign and headed for home despite having shared nothing but mutual respect and cheery pleasantries with the twentysomething other folk using the path in the hour or so I was there.

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