Know I hate tweeners even more in the NBA then NFL. However, point taken. In a weak draft like this that 2 slot ceiling probably should be looked at as sparkplug off the bench, ala, a combo guard on the front line.

For the love of good not at #1 which is what these brain dead morons have to do by passing on Irving for the Williams/Knight/Walker combo.

"When a man with money meets a man with experience, the man with experience leaves with money and the man with money leaves with experience."

Orenthal wrote:^There is no hope with that... After you hit them with a mountain of rational thought their response is, "but did you see Williams in that Duke game?" or "Walker just got dat swag, that killer insinct." or "I'm a fucking retard that licks windows and has water in my skull, but I call radio shows dur dur."

WHY THE FUCK THEY CAN'T UNDERSTAND WILLIAMS HAS NO POSITION.

And took games and parts of games off. I said earlier it scared me and I was liking the dude before he went off on Duke.

They aren't stupid enough to pass on Irving unless his foot injury won't heal until he's 35 years old (which might be par for the TCE course). IMO folks suggesting this just don't know what they are talking about.

That said, Jan Vesely? Really? We want a 6'10" Euro SF who's already 21 years old and can't hit half his free throws? I know he runs the floor well and is supposedly an athletic freak, but 4 rebounds in 25 mpg? That doesn't make any sense to me, either.

peeker643 wrote:If you draft a Euro this June they have to be staying overseas this coming season given the lockout, right? They can stay and play there while this shit here gets settled?

I mean, is that a certainty for any and all of them under contract or whose Euro contracts expire this season?

There are a couple guys with contract issues, not the usual high first round names, that would be perfect canidates for stashing with our second round picks. Just doesn't seem feasible to have all 4 players come onto the roster, given there are still possible some young guys on the team you want to evaluate.

Orenthal wrote:There are a couple guys with contract issues, not the usual high first round names, that would be perfect canidates for stashing with our second round picks. Just doesn't seem feasible to have all 4 players come onto the roster, given there are still possible some young guys on the team you want to evaluate.

Word is that Bog@#*%vic just signed a big Euro contract. That might be a little prohibitive to drafting him if we want him this year, but if the buyout terms are decent he might be worth stashing for another two years if he drops low enough (which he might given the new contract).

At this point in time, I'm going to be pretty happy with any of the bigs that can be projected to the #4 pick (with the exception of Vesley -he reminds me too much of Timmy from South Park). With Kyrie running the offense, I think DWill, Kanter, Vala, or even Bismack should be much better than we were thinking before we got Kyrie. If you can pick-n-roll (or pop), and grab boards, that's all we really need for you to do.

And while I'm warming up to Kanter, I'm still worried given that no one will have seen him play any organized ball in the last two years. That said, I'm just going to try and put my trust in the FO, but reserve the right to continue to be an armchair scout.

Wait, is Inside Hoops saying that the Cavs are going to pick Irving and Knight? That's ridiculous, right?

Right. As I read it, those are the consensus or average draft orders when looking at 12 different mock drafts. Knight averages out at 4, even though possibly very few have him going there. That's my guess.

EDIT: No, I see where you are talking about. Maybe that mock was done prior to the lottery. Now here is there current draft order:

2) Minnesota Timberwolves: Derrick Williams (F, Arizona) - A scorer and rebounder who will probably be a small forward who plays occasional power forward in the NBA. Also might be worthy of being selected first overall.

Williams will be able to score, no problem. Defensively he'll have issues. And yes, I think he's too slow for a 3, too small for a 4.

Maybe as a 6th man he could thrive, backing up both the 3 and 4 and providing scoring against the opponent's 2nd team. Kind of like Lamar Odom the last couple years with the Lakers. I think he'd thrive doing that kind of thing, but I question how effective he can be defensively as a long-term starter. Maybe he'll prove me wrong.

as said before though, the arrogance kind of turns me off, but if he can back it up, the combo of him and Kyrie would be pretty cool.

Swerb wrote:Go start a blog if you want to tell the world your incomprehendible ramblings.

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I have a big arm and can throw the ball pretty damn far...... maybe even over those moutains. The Browns should sign me, i'll let you all in locker room to drink beer. Then we can all go out the parking lot to watch me do motorcycle stunts.

-Kemba Walker 5' 11.5" in socks. 6' 1" in shoes. 6' 3.5" wing -Brandon Knight 6' 1.5" socks and 6' 3.25" in shoes. 6' 6.75" wing-Morehead States Kenneth Faried measured just 6' 6" in socks and 6' 7.5" in shoes. However he has a 7' wingspan and a 9' standing reach.-Kawhi Leonard had a huge 7' 3" wingspan and the biggest hands of anyone at the camp. But just 6' 7" in shoes.-Providence's Marshon Brooks had the biggest wingspan among guards with a crazy 7' 1" wingspan. He's longer than bothMorris twins.-Turkey's Enes Kanter measured out well. 6' 9.75" in socks and 6' 11.25" in shoes with a good 7' 1.5" wing and a 9' 1.5" standing reach-Derrick Williams was 6' 7.25" in socks and 6' 8.75" in shoes. He had a 7' 1.25" wingspan and a 9' 0" standing reach.-Got measurements from the draft combine. Kyrie Irving was 6' 1.75" in socks and 6' 3.5" in shoes with a 6' 4" wingspan. But 10.3 body fatIrving's also not participating in any of the agility or S&C drills

e0y2e3 wrote:WIlliams ego is pretty insane. Quotes today range from him being the biggest star in the draft to him being a great LBJ replacement.

I like swag as much as the next guy, so I'm not gonna judge, but when you have that much swag you better nail your GM interviews.

Here is Mr. Williams at his finest:

"I think I'm the No. 1 pick because I have more star quality I would think," the small forward said. "I'm just a bigger person. Just trying to fill in for a big star like LeBron like they're missing. That missing piece. I think that's me."

Go ahead, tell us a little about yourself.

"It's all about winning for me, and I think the Cavs are committed to doing that," he said. "But at the same time I've given myself options to this point, and like I said before, me and my team, we have a game plan that we're going to execute, and we'll see what we get."

Looking more closely at the "consensus" draft mock that lists 12 mock drafts (that some of you had referenced earlier at http://www.nba.com/2011/news/features/0 ... ef:nbahpt1), it seems there is pretty strong consensus that the Cavs will take Kanter at 4 if he is available.

When looking at all 12 mock drafts:5 mocks have us taking Kanter.Of the 7 others, 5 of those mocks have Kanter not being available to us at 4 (four say he goes at #3, one at #2)Only 2 of the 12 mocks have him sliding past us at 4 (one at #8, one at #10 - noting that the InsideHoops mock has been updated since then)

In other words, only 2 of 12 mocks have us passing up the chance to take Kanter if he is there. Both of the mocks have us passing on Kanter have us taking Valanciunas instead.

The mocks that have Kanter being gone before we draft at 4: two had us taking Valanciunas, one each had us taking Vesely, Leonard, or Burks(huh? - a guy most have going at 10!)

"The nose of the bulldog has been slanted backwards so that he can breathe without letting go." -- Winston Churchill

Irving's a no-brainer but I'd be willing to pay a decent amount to move up to 2 for Williams. It would be awesome if he fell to 4 but I doubt it given how much Minnesota wants to trade. What would the price be to go from 4 to 2?

"Well then I guess there's only one thing left to do...win the whole, f***in', thing."- Jake Taylor

Kingpin74 wrote:Irving's a no-brainer but I'd be willing to pay a decent amount to move up to 2 for Williams. It would be awesome if he fell to 4 but I doubt it given how much Minnesota wants to trade. What would the price be to go from 4 to 2?

Who knows? Their GM says he wants a veteran type player because they are already young enough. Nobody on our team fits that bill, but maybe there is a way to use our TPE to move a veteran player Minny likes to them while moving 2 to us and 4 to the team giving up the player. Not sure even if that's doable, though.

Vala contract/mock draft clarification from Draft Express (he wrote the piece for Yahoo!)

While this crop of prospects leaves a lot to be desired in terms of star power, seeing how the pecking order of international prospects unfolds might be the most interesting storyline of the draft.

There are five international players - all 6-9 or taller - who are expected to be selected in the lottery a. How they rank in terms of NBA potential is one huge source of debate amongst talent evaluators, but how much is known about their situations off the court will ultimately decide where they're selected.

While only one of them, Enes Kanter, was actually in Chicago, the rest were constantly being discussed.

The main topic: Jonas Valanciunas of Lithuania. He is considered by most teams to be the most intriguing of the bunch. At 6-11, with a reported 7-6 wingspan and a Joakim Noah(notes)-type motor, he's the type of prospect NBA teams have a difficult time getting their hands on outside of the draft. He has repeatedly indicated his desire to move to the NBA and only the NBA, which separates him from the Ricky Rubios and Fran Vazquezes of the world.

Seeing solid playing time for a BC Lietuvos Rytas team that made the top 16 of the Euroleague, and leading the competition in rebounding per minute, he's been seen by everyone. For him, it's his buyout, or lack thereof, that has teams worried.

Rytas has taken a major step forward in resolving the buyout issue in recent days by hiring a European lawyer with significant experience in NBA buyout negotiations. According to sources with knowledge of the situation, Rytas will attempt to structure the buyout on a sliding scale depending on where he gets picked, and are willing to be flexible with Valanciunas on when he can leave the team in case of an NBA lockout, even giving him the opportunity to stay with the team until he signs his rookie contract.

If his buyout situation will be resolved in a timely fashion, look for Valanciunas to be drafted somewhere between Nos. 3 and 8 overall. He's ahead of Enes Kanter on both Cleveland and Toronto's boards according to reports and has huge fans in Detroit's front office as well.

Valanciunas has three more years on his contract after this current season, with no buyout option. His American agent Leon Rose of CAA has been negotiating with the team for the better part of the year Most of the dispute revolves around when the buyout will be paid. The team, which is in serious financial trouble, wants the money now, not when he joins the NBA. It's asking for a percentage of Valanciunas' rookie contract. An agreement could have already been reached some time ago but the team has sent mixed messages.

Most expect a deal to be struck no more than a week before the draft. Valanciunas falling in the draft will only hurt Rytas' cause as not only will it lose significant respect from fans and constituents in basketball-crazy Lithuania, but it'll also hurt its chances of landing the next great young local prospect with NBA aspirations. Furthermore, being drafted lower results in a smaller contract.

The Hawks comment was meant just to say we are going to be mediocre, not a player to player comparison. Unless, and this is your plan, they trade Jamo, Andy, and Baron.

Cavaliers open the season with additions of Irving and Gay to a team that stays somewhat healthy and the same pieces where do you think they end up? I know the end of last season with Baron they were competent, yet sub 500. Add in Jamo, Andy, and Gay? You think earlier season success and Gilbert allow the firesale.

If Memphis agrees to #4 and the TPE I would do it, but also would pray they don't think that makes us good enough to start trying to plug and play not rebuild.

"When a man with money meets a man with experience, the man with experience leaves with money and the man with money leaves with experience."

Rudy Gay is probably a better player than anyone coming out in this draft. Its easy to forget because MEM went on the playoff run without him, but he was stupid good this season. 47%/40%/80% - 20pts/6reb/3ast/1.7st/1 block. And he isn't yet 25.

JJN wrote:Rudy Gay is probably a better player than anyone coming out in this draft. Its easy to forget because MEM went on the playoff run without him, but he was stupid good this season. 47%/40%/80% - 20pts/6reb/3ast/1.7st/1 block. And he isn't yet 25.

I actually agree with OJ on this as far as his Atl comment. It would be incredibly short sighted to not consider what it would cost us draft pick wise as well salary cap space. He has 4 years at about ~$17 mill per left on his deal after this season. Not exactly cheap.

If we did this we'd be better much sooner, but is it worth it? Gay hasn't gotten better in like 3 seasons, I don't think he would now. Plus he is not a good defender.

Add in the fact that our draft pick would most likely go from being top 5 next season to somewhere 8-15, and I'll pass.

We took some short cuts with the roster when we had LBJ and it cost us big time. If these rumors are true then I am worried that Gilbert did not learn his lesson. We aren't in a position to benefit much from a trade like this, even though Gay is a better player than we'll probably get at 4.