tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post3087882552130195534..comments2016-12-10T03:29:06.834+02:00Comments on Dienekes’ Anthropology Blog: SMBE 2013 abstractsDienekeshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-11600614238162328532013-07-08T21:20:02.498+03:002013-07-08T21:20:02.498+03:00But confined within a small region, not developing...<i>But confined within a small region, not developing in the same direction over a wide region at the same time. The spread of the Mongoloid phenotype is through gene flow, and that gene flow is basically from a single small region over a long period of time. I note that most consider Southeast Asians to be &#39;proto-Mongoloid&#39; as well as the Amerindians. We can be sure that the SE Asian Mongoloid phenotype for example is a result of hybrid formation with a southward-moving population, not a product of their participation in a gradually forming Mongoloid population. The fact that Amerindians are nowhere near as &#39;Mongoloid&#39; as many northern East asians is surely an indication that they too are the product of a hybrid with a more Mongoloid-looking people before they reached America.</i><br /><br />There is no evidence favoring your theory of a single small region for the origin of the Mongoloid race. We have discussed this and the Mongoloidness of Amerindians (they are clearly Mongoloid, as proven by genetics, and, also, SE Asians are much more Mongoloid than you seem to assume) in detail at another thread, so there is no reason to make the same discussion here.<br />Onurhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-10138651867967618992013-07-08T05:45:11.375+03:002013-07-08T05:45:11.375+03:00&quot;Every race must have gone through an early p...&quot;Every race must have gone through an early phase which we can call &#39;proto phase&#39; in their past&quot;. <br /><br />But confined within a small region, not developing in the same direction over a wide region at the same time. The spread of the Mongoloid phenotype is through gene flow, and that gene flow is basically from a single small region over a long period of time. I note that most consider Southeast Asians to be &#39;proto-Mongoloid&#39; as well as the Amerindians. We can be sure that the SE Asian Mongoloid phenotype for example is a result of hybrid formation with a southward-moving population, not a product of their participation in a gradually forming Mongoloid population. The fact that Amerindians are nowhere near as &#39;Mongoloid&#39; as many northern East asians is surely an indication that they too are the product of a hybrid with a more Mongoloid-looking people before they reached America. terrythttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17327062321100035888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-50200289916335859162013-07-08T05:39:36.281+03:002013-07-08T05:39:36.281+03:00Hhhrumph
I would love to see some decent plotting...Hhhrumph<br /><br />I would love to see some decent plotting of this neanderthal specimen along with the other neanderthals, Denisovans and archaics.<br /><br />In a previous paper it seemed to me that some of the &quot;Neanderthal&quot; genomes (including the main one used for heritory estimates ala 23 and me) were already 1/2 or 1/4 Homo sapiens (Tuscan). They had certainly diverged a long way from some of the other Neanderthal genomes in the direction of Homo sapiens.<br /><br />So this paper is claiming that the Neanderthal genome found alongside the Denisovans in a cave looks like a Denisovan/archaic hybrid? Well given what we already know about the genetic similarities, the most likely archaic is the close ancestor of the Homo sapiens, Homo heidelbergensis (as Eurologist said). Neanderthal lies on the heidelgergensis/human side of the Denisovans, rather than the erectus side.<br /><br />But I wonder if what we are seeing is bad data in, bad data out. If they are using a Neanderthal/Homo sapiens hybrid as a neanderthal standard, then the Homo sapiens part is going to look an archaic.<br /><br />Also both these individuals were found in Siberia. The Denisovans have never been found in Africa, or Western Europe (so far). <br /><br />If this Neanderthal genome is typical (and not just a stray Neanderthalish/Denisovan hybrid) then the genographics of the archaics is going to require a major review. <br /><br />My best guess is that this &quot;Neanderthal&quot; genome will prove to be a product of a mating between a Denisovan and a Human/neanderthal hybrid (leaning towards the neanderthal side). The combination of human and neanderthal mimicking an archaic.<br /><br />The alternative is that neanderthals originated in asia as a Denisovan/heidelbergensis hybrid. Before spreading into Western Europe, and back into Africa. This does not seem to fit the current state of knowledge about neanderthals.<br /><br />More information needed I think. Annie Mousehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11000684388615334278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-80631832953871649672013-07-07T19:45:49.857+03:002013-07-07T19:45:49.857+03:00&quot;Perhaps - or a very old heidelbergensis line...&quot;Perhaps - or a very old heidelbergensis lineage mixing with a more recent one.&quot;<br /><br />1.2 million years ago, homo erectus was mature at 8 years old. Neanderthals were mature at the same time as humans today. The erectus in africa also had pinheads compared even to the asian homo erectus. I am not certain we are even related to homo erectus at all. When you know the story of peking man you have to wonder. No one in asia believes they evolved from erectus. It&#39;s a fad related to out of africa that looks more and more like it could simply be completely wrong.<br /><br /><br />&quot;That is a non sequitur. Every race must have gone through an early phase which we can call &quot;proto phase&quot; in their past. The Mongoloid race is no exception. Races do not suddenly spring up; such things only happen in the Bible and other religious fantasy books and fables.&quot;<br /><br />That is exactly how evolution works. You can have no apparent change for a billion years. It&#39;s when things happen like environment changes, that dramatic population change occurs.Grognardhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17712083368615685458noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-23714305291172617282013-07-07T14:45:18.746+03:002013-07-07T14:45:18.746+03:00&quot;a.k.a. erectus&quot;
Perhaps - or a very ol...&quot;a.k.a. erectus&quot;<br /><br />Perhaps - or a very old <i>heidelbergensis</i> lineage mixing with a more recent one.eurologisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03440019181278830033noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-24552019375150361982013-07-07T04:17:56.060+03:002013-07-07T04:17:56.060+03:00We don&#39;t have a &#39;proto-Mongoloid&#39; popu...<i>We don&#39;t have a &#39;proto-Mongoloid&#39; population changing gradually to a &#39;fully-Mongoloid&#39; population at all.</i><br /><br />That is a non sequitur. Every race must have gone through an early phase which we can call &quot;proto phase&quot; in their past. The Mongoloid race is no exception. Races do not suddenly spring up; such things only happen in the Bible and other religious fantasy books and fables.Onurhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-82135517234411653312013-07-06T11:33:27.882+03:002013-07-06T11:33:27.882+03:00Neocortex is the most complex part of brain and mu...Neocortex is the most complex part of brain and much larger in neanderthals. I have to wonder how much of our intelligence comes from them. Likely the biggest &quot;smoking gun&quot; successful genes would be fully fixed in world population by now so it would be hard to test.Grognardhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17712083368615685458noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-37640682401819423372013-07-06T06:17:53.794+03:002013-07-06T06:17:53.794+03:00Much of interest here. For example:
&quot;there...Much of interest here. For example: <br /><br />&quot;there are at least two admixture events in the genetic history of southern African hunter-gatherers and pastoralists: one involving populations related to Niger-Congo-speaking African populations, and one which introduced ancestry most closely related to west Eurasian (European or Middle Eastern) populations&quot;. <br /><br />That eliminates Southern Africans as being examples of early modern humans. They are just as admixed as the rest of us. <br /><br />&quot;we obtained 20 million base pairs of genomic DNA from a ~4,000-year-old Jomon male tooth, excavated in Sanganji shell mound ... (3) the Sanganji Jomon male shared more SNP alleles with southern and northern minorities in China than geographically close Han Chinese, implying a complex history of people in China after the divergence between Jomon ancestors and Eurasian continent people; (4) Sanganji Jomon is genetically closer to modern mainland Japanese than continental populations, indicating that some of their components were transmitted to modern Japanese&quot; <br /><br />The whole East Asian pattern is far from simple. We don&#39;t have a &#39;proto-Mongoloid&#39; population changing gradually to a &#39;fully-Mongoloid&#39; population at all. terrythttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17327062321100035888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-31134739002307109402013-07-05T23:21:47.879+03:002013-07-05T23:21:47.879+03:00We develop an approximate Bayesian computation app...<i>We develop an approximate Bayesian computation approach that allows us to test different models, and conclude that gene flow between the Denisovan individual and <b>a more anciently diverged human lineage</b> is most consistent with the patterns observed.</i><br /><br />a.k.a. erectusOnurhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.com