A recession is typically a good time for graduate schools. Their application pool goes up because people see them as safe shelter from the storm. The scariest part ofa down economy is the idea of having no income. Of course, graduate school does not solve for that. But graduate school does solve the second most scary thing about a bad economy: lack of a learning curve.

The more desperate you are for a job, the more likely you are to take a job that doesn't teach you what you want to learn. And then you get to that job and you think, “Grad school could solve this problem.” But in fact, grad school creates larger, and more insurmountable problems. And some the problems you're trying to solve with grad school might not be problems at all.

1. Grad school pointlessly delays adulthood.
The best thing you can do for yourself is take time to figure out who you are and where you fit in the world. No one teaches you that in school. You need to do it yourself. Grad school is a way to delay this process, rather than move you forward, according to Thomas Benton of the Chronicle of Higher Education. So instead of dodging tough questions by going back to school, try being lost. It's normal, and honest, and you will end up with more self-knowledge and less debt than your grad-school counterparts, and in many cases, you will be similarly qualified for your next big job.

2. PhD programs are pyramid schemes
It's very hard to get a job teaching at a university. And if you are not going to teach, why are you getting a degree? You don't need a piece of paper to show that you are learning. Go read books after work. Because look: In the arts, you would have a better chance of surviving the Titanic than getting a tenure-track position; and once you adjust for IQ, education, and working hours, post-PhD science jobs are among the most low-paying jobs you could get.

3. Business school is not going to help 90% of the people who go.
Here's the problem with business school. Most people want to work for themselves, but you can't learn entrepreneurship in school — you have to learn by doing. And a business degree that is not from a top school is not going to get you very much at all, according to recruiting firm Challenger & Gray. Finally, Harvard Business School has acknowleged that if you are planning to downshift for kids around the time you are 30, your ability to leverage an MBA is drastically compromised.

4. Law school is a factory for depressives.
It used to be that if you had a law degree it was a ticket to a high salary and a safe career. Today many people go to law school and cannot find a job. This is, in a large part, because law school selects for people who are good with details and pass tests and law firms select for people who are good at marketing themselves and can drum up business. Law firms are in a transition phase, and they have many unfair labor practices leftover from older generations, for example, hourly billing and making young lawyers pay dues for what is, today, a largely uncertain future. Which might explain why the American Bar Association reports that the majority of lawyers would recommend that people not to go into law.

5. The medical school model assumes that health care spending is not a mess.
Medical school is extremely expensive, and our health care system does not pay enough to doctors for them to sanely accept the risk of taking $200,000 in debt to serve as doctors. Specialists like opthalmologists have great hours, and plastic surgeons have great salaries, but most doctors will be stuck in a system that is largely broken, and could easily break them financially — like OBGYNs who cannot afford to deliver babies in New York because they can't afford the malpractice insurance with their salary.

6. Going to grad school is like going into the military.
Applications to the military increase in a bad economy in a disturbingly similar way that applications to graduate school do. For the most part, both alternatives are bad. They limit your future in ways you can't even imagine, and they are not likely to open the kind of doors you really want. Military is the terrible escape hatch for poor kids, and grad school is the terrible escape hatch for rich kids.

7. Most jobs are better than they seem:You can learn from any job.
When I worked on a French chicken farm, I thought I'd learn French, but I didn't, because I was so foreign to the French farm family that they couldn't talk to me. However I did learn a lot of other things, like how to bargain to get the best job in the chicken coop, and how to get out of killing the bunnies. You don't need to be learning the perfect thing in your job. You just need to be learning. Don't tell yourself you need a job that gives your life meaning. Jobs don't do that; doesn't that make you feel better? Suddenly being in the workplace doesn't seem so bad.

8. Graduate school forces you to overinvest: It's too high risk.
In a world where people did not change careers, grad school made sense. Today, grad school is antiquated. You invest three to six extra years in school in order to get your dream career. But the problem is that not only are the old dream careers deteriorating, but even if you have a dream career, it won't last. You'll want to change because you can. Because that's normal for today's workplace. People who are in their twenties today will change careers about four times in their life. Which means that grad school is a steep investment for such a short period of time. The grad school model needs to change to adapt to the new workplace. Until then. Stay away.

You have painted with an enormously wide brush. If your goal was to drum up hits for your site, consider the article a success. If your goal was to give advice to young adults at a crossroads, you need to go back to the drawing board. I don’t even know where to begin picking this apart. There is a nugget of truth in some of your points, but that is about it.
Sincerely,
Never been to grad school but hires a ton of people who have

The main problem I have with your analysis is that some intellectual pursuits are valuable in and of themselves. If for example your goal was to become the world’s best literary critic or to discover a cure for Alzheimer’s or to identify the best teaching methods for a high school, then most of your advice/criteria would be absolutely irrelevant.

But you are right; people overinvest their time and money (but especially their time) in graduate school because they think that’s the only option.

I am 25 now and a 1st year student in (MA) Econ&Entrepreneurship.
I was broke with my very first job at the end of each month and didn’t want to go back to Germany b/c there was no opportunity and the outlook wasn’t rosier.

So I took up the chance to get into higher education – get a degree, and do/find something meaningful which I couldn’t find at work/were not given the chance.

And maybe I did want to prove something my parents. I am the first one in the family who got into higher education, … this feels strange to me in many ways when I think about it.

So don’t blame people when they want to escape the cycle of low paid labour, want to offer their kids a better life, increase their chances to find a better job when the recession is over (looks better than a huge 4yr gap on the CV), try themselves out in a new space.

Congratulations! This is the single dumbest thing I have ever read on the internet. Maybe your comments apply to a single, restricted field, but they certainly do not apply to any field in science and engineering.

This article was written by someone who knows nothing about graduate school (or someone who hated it or dropped out). Yes, getting graduate degrees in art history or something like that won’t really prepare you for a paycheck. There are many jobs for people with science/engineering PhDs. They also pay much more than people with just B.S. degree. For example, according to the American Chemical Society, starting salaries for B.S. chemists in industry are only around $35k per year whereas PhDs in industry begin at $80k. Also, people with B.S. degrees have much less opportunity to be promoted to positions where PhD scientists can more easily attain. People who go to graduate school are those that are passionate about their fields and want to further their areas of research. They are people who want to be leaders and independent thinkers, not just followers. Yes, graduate school is a miserable experience and can take 6 years to complete, but in the end there are benefits. I also agree that academic positions are harder to get and pay less…but not everyone wants to go into academia.

I think Penelope is trying to generalize the entire grad school experience for all different fields ranging from art to business to science. The truth is that MFA doesn’t mean jack but a grad degree in a major that matters will be advantageous

ENGINEERING AND SCIENCE GRADUATE STUDENTS DO NOT PAY TUITION. IN FACT, ENGR AND SCI GRAD STUDENTS GET PAID A MONTHLY STIPEND!!! You get stipends and assistantships for either teaching and/or doing research. Sure they don’t make you rich but it’s better than paying tuition and getting loans.

Just think, if no one wanted to be a science or engineering Ph.D., society would crumble and there would be no medecine, technology…

Grad school is not for everyone. Not everyone can cut it. It separates the men (women) from the boys (girls)!!!!

Yes, yes, your life experience on the chicken farm was oh so earthy and real, but the military and graduate school are merely delays from real life. How the hell do you have any idea of how the military may restrict or grow experience? There are some thoughts worth considering here, but in general, per Ritchie:
"Like excrement, it contains enough undigested nuggets of nutrition to sustain life for some. But it is not a tasty pie: it reeks too much of contempt and of envy. Bon appetit!"

1. Grad school pointlessly delays adulthood.
Try telling that to the married, child-raising non-adult who is taking classes, teaching, and juggling three research projects — and accomplishing it all. I would take that over sitting behind a desk in a cube and playing Solitaire. Or is the the only indication of adulthood a 401k and dental? (Oh, and does the military delay adulthood too?)

2. PhD programs are pyramid schemes.
That’s a true statement. But I bet the reading books after work as a substitute for grad school will come as pleasant news to most students. Oh, and of course, science-folks expect to be paid per hour per IQ point per month spent educating themselves. Screw the job satisfaction, enjoyment of work, and well-above-average salaries.

7. Most jobs are better than they seem: You can learn from any job.
Sure, learning to use a shredder is invaluable life experience. And I would value it as such if I didn’t have a choice. But since I do, I’d rather try to do something that _does_ give my life meaning, thank you. It’s a waste of opportunity (and an insult to those who don’t have the opportunity) to throw it away and go do something that you have no interest in. You’re cheating yourself and the world of your potential by not even trying… and why? Because those 5-6 years of hard work on a moderate stipend is so beneath you?

8. Graduate school forces you to overinvest: It's too high risk.

How many people change careers four times (or even once)? And how many of these people have graduate degrees?

And even if you do change your career, what have you lost? Your money? Be smart and either get funded or find a good way to pay off your loans. Your time? Well, just think of the 3-6 years in school as a job or a ‘career’, one that you have changed out of. (Now that doesn’t sound so bad, does it?)
__

You have a valid point underlying all this nonsense: people should think carefully about whether graduate school is the right choice before jumping in (and certainly shouldn’t go in because there seem to be no better alternatives). If that’s what you were really trying to say, you should try rewriting the whole thing.

LOL. Interesting to hear that I could learn as much from reading books after work as I do in my PhD – then why the hell am I having to conduct all this actual research with subjects and data and crap on top of reading all these books? WTF, profs, I should just be able to read my way to my degree!

And wait, where are my loans? Oh shit, I’m getting paid a perfectly good, livable salary to get this degree, I must be doing something wrong! Sure, I could probably make more in “industry” – but not doing what I love to do. I may even go out into this mysterious “industry” after I’m done, but in my field I seriously don’t expect to be making any more than I would be making on the tenure track. What? There are things I value more than a high salary, even in a down economy? Damn it, what is WRONG with me??

I think I’m okay with being in grad school during this “recession”. I’m better at budgeting than any of my “adult” friends. I’ve had a lot of practice being a poor student – I know how to stretch a dollar. I can’t say the same for some of my friends who spend ridiculous amounts of money on unnecessary things. That’s got to count for something, right?

I have to disagree with this article. I got my MA in Economics and Statistics from a state school, and my assistanship basically paid for grad school. My MA degree is like pure gold on a resume and has opened so many doors for me. Also, my MA took less than two years, PHD work is a whole different story. Just make sure that your advanced degree is diserable by employers before you get it. Or in other words, don’t get an MA in English/Theology (which is almost useless to employers), get an MA in something quantitative that is highly desirable for employers, like mathmatics.

It may not be possible to prove that an employee is smart or productive in a resume or job interview, but going with the assumption that education “costs” (i.e., is less challenging, not economic cost) high-productivity workers less than low-productivity workers, the pursuit of advanced degrees serves as a useful signal to employers as to which workers are actually high-productivity, even if it has no practical impact on their actual productivity.

Penelope, I agree with a lot of what you have to say (and bravo for just coming out and saying it)! However, statistics do show that the more education you have, the less chance you'll be unemployed and, of course, the better you'll be paid. See this chart from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics. I do agree that going to grad school or staying in college to avoid the job market during this recession could lead to bigger problems, as you said, one being the problem of taking on debt when jobs may still be hard to find after the additional schooling. I whole-heartedly agree that on-the-job education is really the most useful learning you’re going to get. You learn much more working than you do getting educated TO work. The only problem there is that when you are looking for a job, degrees speak for themselves on a resume when previous work experience will take the employer more time to decipher. Thanks, Penelope.

She makes some good points, but overall this is so wildly exaggerated that it no longer constitutes reasoned, helpful advice to those considering the grad school option. She clearly knows very little about what these programmes actually entail if she believes that *any* job is a more valuable learning experience than grad school, and more valuable for helping you discover who you are and where you belong. For example, I suspect my extensive field work in war zones counts for a bit more in this regard than her learning to “bargain to get the best job in the chicken coop” and “get out of killing the bunnies”. Every grad school experience is different, and it’s not appropriate for everyone, but this is precisely why her one-size-fits-all advice does more harm than good.

If you want a job in scientific research, particularly academic scientific research, then a Ph.D. in a science actually makes some sense. Sure it pays less than other jobs might, but not everyone evaluates success by the size of the paycheck.

I’m not sure if you missed the point in your blog, or if the readers did, but I thought the idea behind this was and excuse to dodge the recession. I’ll openly admit that I never went to college (I graduated high school in 1999), so I can’t say whether grad school is a bad idea or not. One would have to imagine that there is more than one reason to go to grad school, but if we’re talking strictly about money and the recession, then I agree: Grad school is the worst idea because you’re taking on more debt in the midst of a horrid economic climate. If returns on your investment (grad school) are going to be low, it’s a complete waste of time and money. Nothing is worse than spending thousands of dollars at a time when unemployment is at 8% nationally, or trying to borrow tens of thousands when banks aren’t lending.

It’s worth noting that you can and should apply #7 – “Most jobs are better than they seem: You can learn from any job” – to grad school as well and treat it as a job with a long term contract, one that you need to mine for all kinds of interesting things that you didn’t think you’d learn. For example, I bet a lot of people (understandably) go into a top neuroscience or cell biology program thinking they’ll learn a lot about biology and research, and they do, but the ones that do really well learned things like how to manage your time well, motivate yourself on an independent and long-ranging schedule, network in a loose non-corporate environment and blow off steam with non-contact sports.

I had a unique job right out of college that gave me a lot of firsthand experience with a top notch phd program and allowed me to witness the grad student lifestyle w/o having to go myself. I was a web developer for the biology department of my college and worked out of a research building, separate from all the other admin staff, which was great because I got to hang out with people my own age, all the grad students (and even some of the younger associate profs) near my office.

I completed a doctorate in the humanities two years ago. When I entered at the age of 23, I didn’t know what I would do afterwards, but I knew what I loved: studying arts and cultures, teaching, doing creative work on my own and with others. I also knew that I was smart and focused, and as a result I whizzed through my M.A./ Ph.D. program in five years.

Along the way I realized that academia wasn’t really for me. I didn’t like the confinement or the sacrifices of modern academic life, and I wanted to do work that I enjoyed. Since my college years, I’d held various internships and part-time jobs in the arts, so I decided to go into the museum and cultural sector. After a difficult first year of part-time jobs, I landed a great full-time position as a curator of and arts and culture museum. My academic credentials definitely serve me well, and even though it is a small field, I can see a career path ripe with future opportunities. Most importantly, I love what I do.

In regards to my own career experiences, having some aptitude for what I do, enjoying it, and being open to many possibilities have made all the difference. I believe that people who excel in their chosen field are either:

A.) talented;
B.) passsionate; or,
C.) some combination thereof.

Talented, passionate people will eventually rise to where they ought to be, and others will find something else to do. This is true in academia, the arts, sports, and any other competitive profession. I would always encourage a young person to take a risk and pursue something: if it is worth having, it is worth the sacrifice. The main thing is to know yourself, as Ms. Trunk often points out, and to build some flexibility into your career. Everything else will work itself out.

Are you following your passion? In my view those that follow their dreams are much happier and "successful" at work.

Your time is an investment in yourself. Think about what you are giving up before you make your decision. Even though the MPA is "paid for" there are hidden personal costs. Also, most organizations attach strings to "tuition paid" benefits read the fine print.

If to be a Social Worker you need a graduate degree to enter the field and it is your passion go for it. But before you sign on the dotted line try to find a way experiencing the day in a life of a counselor. Talking to people about what the do is ok but most of us say how great our jobs are because we are often too embarrassed to say otherwise.

Lastly, unless you attend one of the best schools in your chosen field and at the right time in your career life a Master's degree will limit your job prospects! Many managers take the easy way out when hiring. They may view a person with a graduate degree as too high priced and too hard to motivate on the job! This may not seem fair but it is a sad reality.

I think grad school is great. I’m currently working as a physician in a profession I’m very proud of and has defined a large part of my life. Average income in my specialty is 250-500K. Personally I feel I’m quit successful.
*note: this income is not variable and usually not subject to trends in the economy. Piece of mind is great in a turbulent economy.

Penelope, You rock! I’ve been grazing all through your blog today after having never been on it before, and you are one of the most candid, honest people that I’ve never met. Reading your posts is like sitting down and having coffee with a friend, sort of. Anyways, thanks for your sharing yourself; you can add another enthusiastic fan to your 30,000 + subscribers.

I completely agree. I even applied to grad school in my last year of university and I still chose not to go because I wasn’t convinced that the money and time invested would be the best choice for me at the time. My professors and peers were not so impressed – since they all seem to think that university is just a giant professor producing factory.

I instead took a year off, worked at an entry level but decent job, thought a lot about what I really wanted to do, used my free time to research where I want to be and then applied. I’m currently enrolled in a post-grad one year program (International Development) that is very much skills based, and is not really all that costly but it offers a lot of great skills that I know are asked for by employers in my field.

There’s still a lot of people in my program who are considering going right into a MA next year… which I don’t really agree with especially since we’ve been told a few times now that what we need to get better jobs is experience in the field and not more education (right now). I think that for my field a MA or an MBA may be useful a few years down the road but not right now, and by that point employers will most likely pay for them.

I have to agree with Lynn M. This post is “wildly exaggerated” and “one-size-fits-all advice” doing more harm than good. It is incredibly negative and misses an array of points on so many levels that I don’t even know where to begin. I clicked because I believed I was going to read an article about students going to grad school to ‘dodge the recession’, but instead received a bitter lecture for all the horrible reasons grad school is a waste. Grad school is not a waste nor is it a way to dodge adulthood for many people.
Almost daily I hear one of my professors talk of the importance for many students to go to grad school because of our economy. Jobs are requiring more experience and more schooling. Many people are expecting to HAVE to go back to grad school to ensure they can keep there jobs. In ten years grad school prices will be even more ridiculous than today because so many more people will be going back to get their degrees.
This is only one side of a poorly told story.

I have to agree with Tijana. You’ve completely missed the point. People go to grad school because they love to learn in a structured environment where their achievements are universally recognized. Nowhere else offers that.

You need to quit seeing education as a means to an end. Yours is a toxic and negative attitude. Being educated is a lifelong pursuit and University is a healthy and positive environment.

The last several posters have put their fingers on the problem with this particular entry: it makes it sound as though anyone who goes to graduate school does so in the name of the high-powered corporate job promising fame, money, and the love of beautiful women/men. While I agree that much of the graduate school syndrome reduces people to prolonged adolescence, that may be as much a function of the individual’s personality as the structure of the programs. I came out at age 32 totally unable to do anything except jump through someone else’s hoops because that’s what I’d always done before.

I chose to “do” English and American Literature because I love it. Nobody goes to graduate school in a field like that expecting to be a captain of industry afterwards. Yes, I could have learned by sitting in a soft chair in Borders or B&N reading the same books, but there is also the issue of companionship, common experiences, and an environment of diligent questing. That has gone wholly ignored here.

There is an irony in referring to Penelope’s attitude as toxic and negative. Those are the very words she applied to me in private email 3 years ago. But I didn’t have the forum or the name to get away with it.

This is a great article, however biased it may be. I am a recent college graduate who was having a hard time finding work in this economy. I was seriously considering grad school for an MBA to ride the storm, so in 2 years, with a better economy, i could get a great paying job. I decided to stick it out with the job marketplace, and although I am not making the money that I want to right now, I guarantee in 2 years I will have more knowledge in the career field that I want to be in and making enough money to be happy that I didnt continue going to school.

I think this article really helps to get students to think seriously on the pros and cons on going to a grad school. If it really does help in advancing towards your ideal career or is it really just a waste of time, effort and most of all money. It is tough decision for an individual to decide whether or not they should start their career now or pursue their MBA degree first. It comes to no surprise that these happen to numerous individuals while they are at the crossroads of their lives. I do feel that different individuals have different circumstances and needs, everything will boils down to what you yourself feel will benefit you in the long run. If the answer is to start your foot in a career then so be it. Even if it is an MBA degree for another 2 years, maybe that is really the best choice for you to get to where you want to in the future. For me personally, I have attained 2 degrees in finance and marketing, I do believe I am well equipped with the necessary qualifications to set myself in the job market. What i needed was to gain more experience in the job fields so as to climb the corporate ladder. I went to different job sites and post different resumes so as to put myself through the process. One of the websites that really helps was http://www.onecubicle.com, it is fun, creative and new. I was even able to mingle and connect with different people from different part of the world. Learning from their global experiences, it was phenomenal.

If your plan is to use grad school to ‘ride out’ the recession, you probably won’t get into a good one. Sincerity about one’s intellectual mission is still the value that makes academia unlike any other institution. I would also say that smarmy cookbook pragmatism that this blog embodies is not going to be respected in any top-notch department. I spent six great years around some of the most fascinating dedicated and admirable people I’ll ever meet and now I’m not even underpaid. And I’m glad I got to put off spending time with people who think that reading a book or working on a chicken farm is the same as years of hard, focused and incalculably rewarding labor.

Great post, I even agree with you on your point about the Military, don’t let those who were outrage shut you down. I didn’t know supposedly tough military people had such thin skin. I’m tired of that crap about how military people always make better workers. and that poster that said that military people are unselfish? lol Ha Ha Ha Ha. Military people are just as selfish as everyone else.

HA! very funny. now this is where I part with penelope, but this post is an obvious example why the us ed system is good for nothing and fails millions, generation after generation. but i digress. while i totally scarf down every word in your blog, this one is a bit off. it totally depends what field you are going into whether or not grad school sucks, and whether or not it is a bad investment that perpetuates what ever stage that is between being a an overgrown-teenager and being an adult. it also depends on whether or not ‘they’ (the academic institution) are paying for it! so, if ‘they’ are paying for it, and you are innovative and futuristic enough to fit yourself into a field that hones the expert that you will become, then your struggle will only come in the form of critically thinking to fit yourself into your future. if you are smart, clever, personable, hardworking, quick-witted, likable, and cool enough to go to school for free, grad school ain’t a bad idea! ain’t a bad idea at all.

wow. What exactly are your qualifications, and knowledge base ( formal or not) for these opinions. They have no backing in evidence, research, or facts. If you had gone to graduate school, you would have learned that you have to have evidence to support an opinion.

I wish I’d read this four years ago instead of $100K later (spent at an overpriced, overrated private university). Grad school is a total waste of time and money. And of course: opportunity costs. The job I got after grad school had nothing to do with my newly-minted degree. Quite literally I will be paying the consequences of graduate school the rest of my life. Not just in terms of money (though that is significant), but in terms of sacrifices I must make in exchange. Just two: children and any hope of sufficient retirement funds. I’ve spent a lot of time regretting my decision and urge others to think very carefully before doing the same. (Ironically: I had an arts degree and went back for a science degree).

The overwhelming consensus to this article is that having a degree might be a bad thing. Are you kidding??? Sure a recession will make it harder for the average Joe to get a job, but in all seriousness, if an employer is getting ready to hire anyone, whether it's a janitor or a CEO, he or she is going to pick the employee with the degree versus the person with no degrees – give me a break. It doesn't matter if the person with no degree has spent hours learning how to build websites or dedicated hours to reading a lot of books, there are many other variables to getting a job. Some young jackass that has never worked a day in his life because he was busy going to college until he was 25 isn't going to get hired just because he has a couple of degrees. He has NO EXPERIENCE in the job market! There are other variables like your work ethic. If you were worthless at your job before your degree, things don't magically change for you? This is what you get – I am useless at my job + college degree = I'm useless at my job + a piece of paper = I'm still useless either way. Have you ever wondered why you never climb the corporate ladder? Other variables are things like race (yes, I said it), and the way you represent yourself. I don't think the kid who expresses himself by punching twenty holes in his face and has tattoos all over the place will get hired, sorry – go apply at a tattoo parlor or at a gas station, your dream job might be out of reach. If you abuse the system by purposely going on unemployment for years and years because you're a piece of shit that doesn't care, guess what, this will effect you when you try to explain the huge holes in your employment record and I'm not talking about the recent turn of events (those abusers know who they are). These are all variables that have a huge impact on who gets hired even in a recession, so don't preach that the average Joe who reads a lot of books has the same potential to get the same job that the person with the three degrees that also reads a lot of books does, cause it just isn't true. School will always and I mean ALWAYS give you the upper hand over someone who never went to school. If no one is hiring, well guess what? The person with the two or three degrees is the first person in line to get hired, so put that in your pipe and smoke it.

I started in a biology PhD program this past fall. I worked as a research associate in a lab for 2 years after finishing undergrad, where I learned quite a bit, but wanted to have more intellectual freedom in my research.

Penelope, your comments don’t apply to the biological sciences. You want to be a primary investigator? You NEED a PhD. I saw the ceiling with a bachelors degree from a competitive university.

I work hard and put in long hours. But my work is fully supported – I have a salary, get to live the dream, and get medical benefits. Does balancing a class load and research responsibilities suck sometimes? Sure. But it’s great to go in in the morning and not be there just to pay the bills.

But being a scientist wasn’t a cop-out for me. I left a good, secure lab job to do this. It has nothing to do with the economy for me. It was the opportunity to work on the problems I wanted to work on.

Penelope, I think this post is simply too generalized. Many fields (besides M.D. and J.D.) simply require a Masters. I am considering mental health counseling, which will require a degree, and I’m considering higher education, and most good positions in higher ed will require a Masters (sure, I could get in as a financial aid drone or something like that, but in higher ed a Masters can take you much higher up). The bottom line is you have to know where you want to take the degree. No degree, including an MBA, is a one size fits all or a cure all for having no direction.

I cannot believe how long this hip-hip-hooray-and-ballyhoo has gone on. I wonder if anyone’s mind has been changed by the arguments for and against advanced degrees. And nobody has addressed the issue of what you do if you really don’t care a shit about business and amassing Great Wealth(TM), but have interests in service, scholarship, or simply the classroom at a place that is not Harvard Business School, the school that gave us G.W. Bush.

I would definitely recommend WetFeet’s series on interviewing, finding a job, resume writing, etc. Right now they are selling a package that includes an interviewing tutorial video, and it’s only $79. All of the books are really useful for recent grads or people graduating soon, but can be just as useful 10 years later.
Link: http://shop.wetfeet.com/promo/gradpack.aspx

This is really terrible advice. You ought to be ashamed of yourself for trying to talk people out of attending graduate school. I read darn near every comment in this article, and it really saddened me when I saw a few people post that this article was the deciding factor for them to not go. (Although I question their drive for going in the first place.)

I have applied to an MBA program specializing in Marketing, and I have recently obtained a BA in Advertising. Where I live, the job market is extremely tough and competitive right now, especially in marketing and advertising. So what are my options? Settle for a crappy job that has nothing to do with my field and will give me no relevant experience, or settle for a crappy job that has nothing to do with my field while obtaining relevant experience through an advanced degree? For me, there’s no question about it.

I am absolutely not trying to delay growing up, I’m doing just the opposite. I am focusing on my career. I am making a decision that will ultimately help me get the career of my dreams. And if by some chance I get that MBA and still have no opportunities come my way, then so be it. To me, it is absolutely worth the risk.

I know where you’re coming from with this article, but I agree with everyone who has said that your statements are way, way too generalized.

I think an important point was missed. You must choose which degree you pursue carefully. Most colleges are, as P said, schemes just like any other biz. They are not going to tell you that a degree in communications or philosophy is not going to get you a job when you get out. However, if you pursue a degree in engineering, a masters degree almost guarantees you a salary increase of ten to 20 thousand more a year. Plus most companies will pay your way (I think 75% is the LOWEST I have ever seen).
Same goes for the military. You must pick a good path (assuming of course your ASVAB scores are high enough) before it will help you later in life.
Having both a military background(Avionics Technician) and an engineering degree (Aerospace Eng)has allowed me to get a very well paying job even in this recession. I started at $57,500 with a BS. My grad school counters…..$72,000.
My point: Choose Wisely!

That’s nice, but not everybody is able to succeed in learning math and science, and instead good at other things like history or art, so…what’s your point? That anyone not “smart enough” to be an engineer or a scientist deserves to have to eat out of a garbage can and live under a bridge?

Not everybody can be a scientist or an engineer. Just like not everybody can be a dentist or a doctor.

The core issue here is one of human dignity, moral values and ethics.

There were plenty of “smart guys” in the maths and sciences who were rewarded with success and prestige; but they were not decent human beings. Quite the contrary. Does Josef Mengele ring a bell? How about the purveyors of the American eugenics movement? Shall I continue?

Of course, understanding and recognizing patterns of destructive classism requires some rudimentary mathematical knowledge and a score of history lesson mastery.

This is an interesting post and has sparked so many different feelings in people. I too think grad school can be away of dodging other responsibilities. There are many people who are out of work, looking at the bleak job market and thinking that instead of trying to compete with so many others for the few jobs available that maybe grad school is the answer. I do think that grad school is often times a good investment, but one should take a close look at their motivations before jumping in.

I wholeheartedly disagree with this article. Then again I am in my 30’s have 2 kids and have worked since I was 14. I had a “good” job, I owned my own business, I have lived in the real world and you know why I didn’t get that promotion? Somebody else had the degree and I didn’t. Bring on the pyramid schemes.

I wholeheartedly agree with this article. Every point is good. I’m in college. I’m not stupid enough to pour cash into a grad school if I’m getting myself a degree in chemical engineering. I’m not wasting my time or my life. And though I decided this long before I read this article, this will only support my argument to the people who are too stubborn to accept my logic. Thanks! :]

I never went to grad school for the reason you point out regarding delaying adulthood. While at school you are in a cacoon sheltered from the real world. Even worse, the school can ofter lead you to believe that you are better then people already working.

Forgetting the many altruistic and positive reasons for a career in medicine, the reason so many of us take on a large debt load is that it is much easier to pay back than other fields because of so many available jobs

The average doc makes about $180K a year. Depending on the field – docs coming out of residency earn between $150K up to $400K.

The public is often unaware that these salaries do not include signing bonuses and loan repayments.

Still, if one is $120-160K (2009 average) in debt and that is not addressed in an employment contract and you consolidate and pay the debt over 20 years like many of my colleagues you can pay perhaps $1100-1300 month. But if you make $190K / year – which a decent primary care (and lower paying medical field ) doc can earn – big deal – so your left with $170K as an FP. As a radiologist you’re left with $325K…and so on.

Also, residents get paid ($50+K) and many start paying debt then. I, along with other docs I know, simply worked ERs for a few years (they pay over $100/hr) and made $200K/year and knocked the loans down (I am a primary care physician).

Also, there are many state and federal programs that will erase your debt for a few years of practice.

There’s a reason US med schools get 5000 applicants for 150 places. We’re not stupid. The hype about malpractice premiums and high debt are smoke-screens to deflect public attention from the money doctors make.

I don’t think physicians are greedy or money-driven by nature (like lawyers – who, by the way, some physicians see as people who couldn’t get in to med school) but we are an intelligent group who look after our own. Many law school grads leave the field and end up doing something else – why is that?

Seriously, despite the reports, how many physicians do you really know of who have walked away from medicine?