Posted
by
msmash
on Sunday March 27, 2016 @11:20AM
from the it-was-all-a-scam dept.

An anonymous reader cites a study on Vox: One of the biggest public health wins of recent decades has been America's slow shift away from soda. But there's pretty good evidence that Americans are still getting hoodwinked by juices and other sugary beverages. Data from Euromonitor, which analyzed U.S. retail beverage sales over the past five years, shows that while the soda category is shrinking, juice sales have held steady, and sales of energy and sports drinks have been growing. An article in BMJ Open demonstrates the extent of the problem: The researchers looked at how much of the American diet is composed of ultra-processed foods and added sugars. They found that 58 percent of total energy intake -- more than half of the calories Americans consume! -- came from foods that are packed with lots of flavors, colors, and sweeteners. And almost 90 percent of the added sugars Americans consume came from heavily processed foods -- the two main sources being soft drinks (17 percent) closely followed by fruit drinks (14 percent). (In this case, 'fruit drinks' refers to processed juices with added sugars.)

It's so easy to justify consuming almost anything, because there are thousands of web pages that say "that is good for you!" Coffee, chocolate, fruit juice, whatever. Some of these are, of course, created by the companies that sell these foods and drinks -- but I think most of it comes from the fact that everybody eats -- and while almost any other subject will only address a fraction of people, foods and drinks are obviously part of everybody's life. So, there's talk about food every day in the newspaper,

It's so easy to justify consuming almost anything, because there are thousands of web pages that say "that is good for you!"

The old standby that almost everything we eat is 'good for you' in limited quantities. A pack of cards sized steak is good for you, a couple times a week. Same with fish, chicken, coffee, wine, etc...

The problem is when you're having 24oz of soda with every meal.

Personally, from what I've read fruit drinks are basically only lacking carbonation to be a 'soda'. Even fruit drinks aren't as good as, well, eating the fruit involved because there's lots of nutrients you're losing out on that was in the pulp of the fruit, and besides, the pulp has carbs and fiber that help you feel 'full', which the juice alone will shoot through your system and not satiate you.

Just go into any American Supermarket and look at the ingredients of the things that you put in your basket.How many have lots of 'High Fructose Corn Syrup'?You don't need all that sugar. IT is used to mask the crap/cheap ingredients the food processors use.

In some markets it is almost impossible to buy bread that does not contain the evil syrup. I bake my own bread and the amount of sugar (Honey) I add to it is tiny when compared to supermarket bread.I don't have any other sugar

I was an avid water drinker, until I moved to this village. The water is very high in manganese and tastes like chemicals. I can't stand the plastic taste of bottled water or the price. The seltzer has the plastic taste but the fruit juice covers it. When I move somewhere there is real water I will probably drink mostly water again.

Seriously, in African countries, lead pipes were removed about 100 years ago already. WTF is wrong with America?

The danger from lead pipes can be managed. Lead doesn't dissolve well in water and chemicals can be used to reduce this further. The Flint water was safe until the source was switched to water that was acidic which greatly increased the lead in solution.

Even fruit drinks aren't as good as, well, eating the fruit involved because there's lots of nutrients you're losing out on that was in the pulp of the fruit, and besides, the pulp has carbs and fiber that help you feel 'full', which the juice alone will shoot through your system and not satiate you.

Well also they're talking about fruit drinks, not fruit juice. Whenever you see something labelled "fruit drink", it should trigger alarm bells and the question, "why aren't they calling it juice?"

Even things labelled "juice" sometimes have additives, including additional sugar. When it's labelled a "fruit drink", it means that they've doctored it so much and added so much sugar that they're not allowed to call it "juice" anymore. It's sort of like if you go to a mexican restaurant and the stuff they put in the tacos is referred to as something like, "beef-based taco filling." That should immediately make you question what that stuff is.

Yes, what you say is true. But even fruit juice is often not that great for you. In particular, things labeled 100% juice are frequently a blend of the sweetest possible juices (appl, grape, pear, etc) maybe combined with some amount of the main juice you think you're buying. For example, those "premium" juice blends sold in the refrigerated section if a grocery store may have kale and whatever juices, but they frequently are blended with the sweetest juices to make the "palatable.". You're just drinking

Well also they're talking about fruit drinks, not fruit juice. Whenever you see something labelled "fruit drink", it should trigger alarm bells and the question, "why aren't they calling it juice?"

It holds true even for many fruit juices. Consider apple juice, at 14 calories per ounce, matches my 12 ounce root beer can. 168 calories for the juice, 170(mandatory FDA rounding) for the root beer. Now yes, it does have less sugar(36 vs 35). Orange Juice has the same number of calories - but less sugar still, and actually has some protein.

I maintain that eating fruit is normally better than drinking just the juice.

Even fruit drinks aren't as good as, well, eating the fruit involved because there's lots of nutrients you're losing out on that was in the pulp of the fruit, and besides, the pulp has carbs and fiber that help you feel 'full', which the juice alone will shoot through your system and not satiate you.

Also, the time taken to digest the cell walls and release their contents delays and spreads out the release of the sugar from whole fruit, whereas with juice the sugar hits your bloodstream in one spike.

I think most of it comes from the fact that everybody eats -- and while almost any other subject will only address a fraction of people, foods and drinks are obviously part of everybody's life. So, there's talk about food every day in the newspaper, on the news cable channels...and now on Slashdot.

Trust me, people weren't always so obsessed with food as medicine as they are today. Another thing I can tell you as an older person: These "studies" that refute previous common wisdom come and go with some regularity. First we hear that "food X" is bad for you. Later, that "food X" is good for you. Live long enough, and you'll see it go back and forth a few times. Just eat food, people. You'll be fine. Whether it's drugs, alcohol, soda pop, or whatever - moderation is the key.

"Juicer" typically indicates that you make your own beverage from fresh fruits and veggies, which is not at all unhealthy (1)(2). "Fruit Juice" as TFA is discussing is processed fruit juice, generally chemically reduced to concentrate and added to sugar water (HFCS specifically). The primary difference between soda and 99% of the commercially produced "Fruit Juices" is the lack of carbonation in the latter. In many cases, there is more sugar added to juices than there is in soda.

Fruit drinks are a bit deceptive if you're not a label reader, but even less well publicized is the fact that many fruit juices are nearly as bad for you when stripped of the fiber present naturally in the fruit itself.

Lol, the fiber myth keeps rearing it's ugly head. Tell me how eating 1 apple is and better for you than eating 1 apple worth of apple juice. They both have exactly the same amount of sugar. Are you telling me that if I put 1 apple worth of fiber in my 1 apple worth of apple juice, it suddenly makes it healthy? Fiber which is an undigestible substance that has no nutritional value and somehow magically makes sugar more healthy.

Eating doesn't stop in the stomach, what happens after the stomach is likely very important i.e. absorbing the stuff.It's possible that nutrients like vitamins and stuff are easily more absorbed if there's fiber and stuff to slow them down, else your body could opportunistically absorb the sugar and let the rest go down the crapper. Although it should be very unlikely that you're deficient in vitamins (or proteins)

Apple juice? I can't stop at one glass, if I have apple juice I'll likely drink half a liter :

Yes, for example if you take processed sugar and mix it with oat bran, that will cause less harm than if you just eat straight sugar.

BTW, there are 2 types of fiber in food, and they are very different. A statement like "Fiber which is an undigestible substance that has no nutritional value" is complete idiocy. Fiber not only has nutritional value, it is necessary for good health.

Read a little bit about how excess sugar consumption causes diabetes. You might discover that eating straight sugar all at once i

Yes, for example if you take processed sugar and mix it with oat bran, that will cause less harm than if you just eat straight sugar.

BTW, there are 2 types of fiber in food, and they are very different. A statement like "Fiber which is an undigestible substance that has no nutritional value" is complete idiocy.

Yes, there are soluble and insoluble forms of dietary fiber, both of which are indigestible. Care to try again?

Fiber not only has nutritional value, it is necessary for good health.

Read a little bit about how excess sugar consumption causes diabetes. You might discover that eating straight sugar all at once is much more harmful to your body than eating the same amount a little bit at a time mixed with fiber.

OK genius. What is the nutritional value of 1 gram of soluble fiber, and 1 gram of insoluble fiber.

Don't even use the word "genius," you are not even a functional reader. To prove you can read, don't write; go and read. Then, when you don't reply I'll know you actually read something about the subject.

So which of your links says that fiber is digestible? Sure, fiber has nutritional value for animals that are capable of digesting cellulose. So technically yes it has nutritional value when you eat it, and it still has the same nutritional value after you shit it out. All of those articles say that fiber "may" have all sorts of benefits. We highly subsidize agriculture in this country, so it's important to get consumers to eat lots of agricultural products that are bad for us. Most of these contain fib

First, I want you to quote me the passage that says that any type of dietary fiber is digestible. Then I would like to know the nutritional value of that fiber as digested I am going to be waiting for quite some time, because none of your links contain that information.

Non-essential nutrients are substances within foods can still have a significant impact on health, whether beneficial or toxic. For example, most dietary fiber is not absorbed by the human digestive tract, but is important in maintaining the bulk of a bowel movement to avoid constipation.

Yes it is. While it still contains sugar the article is talking about ADDED sugar. So unless you fresh press your own juice and than add a teaspoon into every glass you drink fresh pressing your own juice is far healthier.

Freshly pressed orange juice still has the same amount of sugar as regular cola.

And? There's a very big difference between natural sugars, refined sugars and the all American favourite HFCS.

There's even more of a difference in what it is you eat with the sugars and how your body processes the mix i.e. a teaspoon of raw sugar, not as good for you and definitely lacking the nutritional value of eating a whole orange, even though the latter contains more sugar.

...except maybe when you're actually exercising. A 24 oz bottle of Gatorade has 160 calories in it, which would only take 10-15 minutes to burn off while running or cycling.

Overconsumption of sugar is a big problem, but there's also lack of exercise. We've structured our lives (and cities) in such a way that we don't have to lift a finger to do anything. The only way to exercise is to actively go out of your way to do it; people just can't burn off all that sugar in their day-to-day suburban lives.

Even then if you are exercising a lot you can simply eat big portions and fatty foods. Goes well with a typical diet that has too much starch/bread/pasta/rice/potato.

Where I love the equivalent to your Gatorade is when you're ill, most notably with gastroenteritis. Can't eat anything. but the sugar, electrolytes and water == good, good, good!Perhaps it is especially stupid to be afraid of your food, and if your soda makes you feel better go for it. Daily intake and soda at the meal's table is where I think

Follow the money, as every farmer knows there is more money in processing his perfectly good produce than he'll ever see for it.

I have to watch out my sugar intake and investigated typical sugar content of several juices as I like them.
The result is there is nearly as much sugar in a good (freshly pressed) apple or orange juice than there is in the same measure of soda.

So I've moved to eating the whole fruit, it is just as or even more satisfying than drinking the juice because it fills you up and even

Yeah, when you see a doom-and-gloom article like this one, and one of the phrases is "heavily processed" or the new catchphrase "ultra-processed," you can safely ignore it.

"Heavily processed" is such a wide definition that it's effectively meaningless. Anything that contains extra sugar (in any amount), white flour (or any other refined grains), anything that has "artificial" coloring (even if the color comes from natural sources), refined oils (like soybean oil, which was a "health food" twenty years ago), or even low-fat foods (whether or not they're naturally low in fats).

When you get right down to it, these sorts of articles are trying to get you worked up about processed foods - in other words, ANYTHING that comes in a package. "So buy our Cool New Healthy Food, at only three times the price!"

Of course, the people who are worked up about processed foods are just the spiritual descendants of the people who used to tell you to switch to processed food because the older, natural foods were supposed to be bad for you. I remember when the health nuts told us to switch from butter to margarine because butter was bad - and now we know that margarine is immensely worse for cardiovascular health.

Why bitch about simple statements of facts? The study finds that 90% of added sugars come from so-called heavily or ultra processed foods, which is enormous and something sgnificant to know.Just stating it does not make it a conspiracy from Nanny State, advertisers and "health nuts" to talk you down as if you're a little child. I'll allow myself to tell you that's ridiculous.You're trying to fit facts around preconceived notions that they must come from that PETA bitch, the teacher assistants, the pale-skin

Why bitch about simple statements of facts? The study finds that 90% of added sugars come from so-called heavily or ultra processed foods, which is enormous and something sgnificant to know.

...except that it becomes a circular definition.

When you say that adding sugar MAKES it a "heavily processed" food, then the fact that 90% of added sugar comes from that food is a given.

You cited one source for definitions for "heavily" and "ultra" processed food - but when you read other sources, you get different definitions. That's the problem - you don't get to pick one you sort of agree with and pretend that it covers everything else.

I was looking for some reason to assume that sugar is the great
devil, but they just take that as a given, something that
everyone is supposed to know.

One thing that I know is that you should worry about exercise
first-- but that's apparently too horrible a thought for most
people to contemplate, they prefer to obsess about what they're
shoving in their mouths.

Setting aside that whole juice vs. drink bit, which can only be used as a high level filter, processed foods have ingredient and nutrition labels. People should check them when they are buying a new product rather than depending upon manufacturer's claims.

Also learn how to check the products next to it. Those cheap alternatives are often better for you than the expensive brands.

It really doesn't matter much if the juice is 100% natural or a dilution with added sugars. It is still sugar without the rest of the fruit solids (which contains fiber, pectin, and other components). Drinking a glass of fruit juice is not a natural way to consume fruit... it is rapidly taking in a huge quantity of unregulated simple calories.

Fruit juice is just mostly sugar water. If you want to be "healthy" and/or lose weight and/or prevent insulin spikes then drink water. Then, optionally eat a single serving of WHOLE fruit (like one apple or one peach or something) if you want fruit.

Slightly off-topic, but: even an home made freshly squeezed glass of fruit juice supposedly contains more sugar than is healthy for you. Think about it: on average, how much oranges would you need to squeeze for a single glass of juice ? Three or four oranges ? Might not seem like a lot, until you consider *eating* those same four oranges at once. The proclaimed result ? Eating a single orange is good for you, but taking in - the sugars of - four oranges is bad.

Humans typically starving and suffering malnutrition most of the time for over a hundred thousand years, and before that our ancestor species back more than a billion years. Our appetite craves the sugar and fat that helped humans stave off death. Now with cheap, abundant, and tasty foods everywhere through technological advances we have to deal with whole populations being over fed. People actually complain food is too easy to consume like processed and fast foods. Many poor people eat better than kings just 1000 years ago.

I love it! There simply isn't a better time to be alive. Give me diabetes and obesity any day over dying at 12 from starvation. I, for one, am grateful to our new corpulent overlords.

I've been hearing this shit since I was a little kid in the 70's. This country has way too many assholes making a living by spreading FUD.
NEWS FLASH- IF YOU OVERCONSUME, YOU MAY DIE. Just pick something. It doesn't matter what it is. Water, aspirin, Boones Farm, eggs, republicans, democrats, salt...........
Someone please lock these bastards up and throw away the key.

I have a one-liter hydroflask for the house and disc golf, and a 16-ounce Bubba with a barrel shape for the car (so as to fit the minuscule cupholder in my car)

Bottle water is a racket. Don't feed the plastic monster

As for soda.. completely kicked the habit after spending some time in a hospital. When I came back I found I couldn't stand the taste of any of them.. except for Boylan's Birch Beer. So I cut soda out cold turkey.

I can't drink that stuff, tastes like candy syrup! Pretty much the only thing I can stand to drink (apart from beer or coffee) is water or milk, or a slightly sweetened iced tea. I'll eat a fruit but I can't stand the candy drink.

... yet labeled as juice is the normal. Many times I picked up bottles that call itself juice and then there are no vitamins listed under the nutritional info. How Minute Maid, for instance, manages to do that while using real fruit as an ingredient is beyond me.

Back in college, I tried to lose my soda habit for something healthier. Frozen concentrates were the best option, saving me from lugging bulky jugs of colored water home in my backpack. I tried "Mr. Pure Papaya Juice". Tasted like ass and made my tongue sting.

Ingredients: no actual papaya at all, just grape and apple from concentrate and tons of HFCS.

The article is very fuzzy when distinguishing between juice and juice drinks. It seems to claim 'orange juice' is very high in sugar, but then implies it means orange juice with added sugar, not pure OJ.

I suppose soft drink vendors could turn this around and say "as healthy as fruit juice" as show by this study.

Pure orange juice has about 8.5% of sugar and about 2% of other carbohydrates. That could be called 'very high'

Not only that, but it's pretty close to what most sodas are, and most juices are have similar numbers as well. It also doesn't take much juice (14 oz, even if it's "natural" or "organic" fruit juice to meet food religion requirements) to exceed the FDA recommendation for simple sugars per day, which is likely too high at this point.

Overconsumption of simple sugars are likely *THE* reason why a lot of people have high cholesterol and fatty liver, and in a 2,000 calorie diet you should probably be consuming less than 20g but ideally zero (there's no nutritional or other physiological need for it.) Cutting out dietary cholesterol and saturated fat from your diet is and always has been the wrong advice for treating these.

The culprit is fructose, not simple sugar. Simple sugar is dextrose (glucose), and can be digested and used by every cell in the body. Fructose is digested in the liver and doing so burns through ATP like there's no tomorrow. Fructose digestion is amazingly similar to alcohol digestion, you just don't get the buzz you do with alcohol.

OJ has more sugar in it that coke. At least if you believe the label. Is is "bad" for you. Well everything is so fuck it. I will enjoy my life and not be stuck with boring food for a life time. There isn't even any evidence that you live longer with these "healthy organic(WTF does that even mean) natural diet"...Probably feels like it however.

Beverages that are 100% juice may be called “juice.” However, beverages that are diluted to less than 100% juice must have the word “juice” qualified with a term such as “beverage,” “drink,” or “cocktail.” Alternatively, the product may be labeled with a name using the form “diluted ____ juice,”

Not really - "And even pure fruit juices that deliver vitamins and nutrients — like freshly squeezed orange juice — also deliver a lot of calories and sugar" makes it clear that all juices are high in sugar. Just, sugar-water-based "fruit drinks" are criticized for having very little/no nutritional value.

Yeah, fruits are high in sugar, but that doesn't mean I want even more sugar / corn syrup to make up for the bad flavor that corn syrup drink makers have to mitigate.

Fruits aren't necessarily high in sugar, but juicing typically keeps the sugar while removing a lot of other materials, making fruit juice have a higher concentration than fruit. The same applies to vegetables by the way, which is why "juicing" or "juice diets" are a pretty dumb idea if the whole point is to be healthier.

Yeah, fruits are high in sugar, but that doesn't mean I want even more sugar / corn syrup to make up for the bad flavor that corn syrup drink makers have to mitigate.

Fruits aren't necessarily high in sugar, but juicing typically keeps the sugar while removing a lot of other materials, making fruit juice have a higher concentration than fruit. The same applies to vegetables by the way, which is why "juicing" or "juice diets" are a pretty dumb idea if the whole point is to be healthier.

A lot of the "other material" is the fiber from the whole fruit, which slows the digestion of the sugars/carbs. Furthermore, a cup of orange juice contains the juice of several oranges, which would be difficult to consume from whole fruit in one sitting.

You might be interested in this (90min) video, Sugar: The Bitter Truth [youtube.com] by Robert H. Lustig, MD, UCSF Professor of Pediatrics in the Division of Endocrinology, in which he explores the damage caused by sugary foods. He argues that fructose (too much) and

This is not so much a study about basic physiology, I see it more as a study about demographics (esp. the one on BMJ.com)

Also, common sense is something that can get lost, along with popular culture or folk culture and little know-how like sewing and such.One example : nowadays, you can find yourself learning how to handwash a few clothes or how to polish shoes for the first time ever in your life, at 30-year-old. Did you know how to polish shoes at 10-year-old in the 60s? Sure, I guess. Now it depends on a

"Yes.. sugar does in fact have calories and amazingly those drinks have their calories and sugar content listed on them.. "

Yes, it's just thermodynamics! Except that it isn't because there's
a human being in the loop acting as a control system, and so
there are complicated psychological and physiological effects
going on that no one seems to understand terribly well.

Are high carbohydrate diets bad? Then how do you explain the Japanese?

Silly rabbit. As an American I can explain this to you. We don't add sugar to juice.

What some people add sugar to is water, flavored by 5 to 10% juice.

It is just a variety of Earth Sugardrink that is not carbonated. I suspect it is also sold in your country, although you may use different words for it. In fact, if you looked into it you would find that while the most popular brands of Earth Sugardrink are American, nevertheless Americans do not have the highest rate of consumption of Sugardrink.