The discussion-threads about 9/11 in internet since 2001 surely would reach at least the moon from earth if You would make a long thread of them. What is the result? Nothing, there is no result. What a waste of time!

So I suggest to start the attempt to search systematically for the truth instead of continuing absolutely inefficient procedures.

The undeniable facts are:

1. On 11th of September 2001 the twin-towers of the World Trade Center in N.Y. broke down after two aeroplanes had clashed them , one per tower.
The aeroplanes were stopped by the towers, were stuck in the towers, their full tanks exploded at once and big fireballs around the aeroplanes were to be seen.

That is witnessed by at least some hundred persons who had seen that with their own eyes, that has been seen per TV around the whole world very soon later, there is no hint that those movies were faked.

2. While official quarters demand the responsible actors would have been Islamist martyrs and their religious leaders in Afghanistan (thesis A), on the other hand people demand that act would have been made by skull & bones (thesis B), simply said.

3. The ask for the motive can be answered by both contrary groups comprehensibly: Islamists could have done it because of their hatred of the U.S.A., Skull & Bones could have arranged it to achieve their own political targets: War against Afghanistan according to geopolitical interests, reducing of civil rights in the U.S.A., arming of police and security-services, good profit for Halliburton, Lockheed Martin and so on.

4. Amazingly the discussion, even led rather angrily, deals with a point that is not useful to prove thesis B as wrong: The supporters of thesis B demand the clashes of the aeroplanes would not have been able to let the towers collaps back upon themselves as it happened, there, so the supporters of thesis B, must have been additional action and that would be the proof for thesis B.

- Taken the clashes would give the full explanation of letting collapsing both towers upon themselves that would not verify thesis A/ would not falsify thesis B.

- Taken the clashes would not be able to explain that You wouldnīt have automatically the prove that thesis B would be right: Why shouldnīt Islamists be unable to prepare towers in any case? But of course: The assumption that the responsible persons of research at the place of action were supporters not of the Islamists but of the official quarters cannot be rejected.

Concerning that there is to say:

1. Should it be possible to prove that there had been preparings of the towers and that the official researchers had covered that so that would practically be the proof of thesis B.

2. Should it only be possible to prove that there must have been preparings but without a prove that the official researchers must have taken knowledge of that so that couldnīt prove thesis B as true - of course it couldnīt prove thesis A as true, too.

3. Should it be clear at last there were no preparations so that would prove nothing, too.

The usual discussion turns out to be a discussion concerning point 1. above that can probably proof that thesis B is true but nothing else.

Regarding that it needs a proof that the researchers would have covered proofs for preparing of the towers. So it is probably irrelevant to talk about the point whether preparing the towers was necessary or not: If the researchers would have covered traces of such a preparing then there would have been preparings, one proof would imply the other one. But the assumption that any preparing would have left traces which the researchers would have had to find in any case (!) seems not realistic to me, but I will not proclaim absolute wisdom at this point.

My actual point of view: I think the clashes should have been enough: The backbones of the Twins were built of steel which is a very good conductor of heat. That means the heat of the large fires in the Twins was conducted through their "backbones" from top to down. That means a grave loss of consistency. Furthermore the Twins catched an enormous kinetic energy, and a part of that changed the molecular structure of the "backbones", too, You can take that as an attrition of the steel.

So there were two factors that had the effect to weaken the "backbones" of the Towers significantly. That is just the way experts use for controled detonations of towers: Weakening their "backbones" lets them collapse back upon themselves.

The supporters of thesis B are asked to give proofs (!) that the researchers had found proofs for preparing, elsewise continuing of the discussion seems not to make any sense.

But: That doesnīt mean that thesis A has to be true, that means nothing.

With kindest regards

Your sincer

Winfried Sobottka, United Anarchists

Kathianne

10-26-2009, 08:25 PM

http://www.pentagonattack911.com/wtc.htm

Winfried Sobottka

10-26-2009, 09:17 PM

I think it would be better to discuss about meaningful consequences of that. A lot of people around the world were delighted of that and I have to admit I belonged to them. Of course that changed when I saw women and children who were moved to tears because of the loss of a human they loved. But I am really not a person who likes violence, who would be a sadist or anything like that, and first I had been deligthed. And I can ensure You that a lot of people told me that time the U.S.A. would have gotten what they had earned.

Anyway I cannot see that the U.S.A. would have taken any senseful consequences of that, in contrary. Perhaps movies in the U.S.A. shouldnīt show only the victims of 9/11 and their dolorous relations and friends, but the victims of U.S. wars and their dolorous relations and friends, too.

And what is about Guantanamo, what is about about prisons in Texas where prisoners get moldy food, where burials are weekly? And what is about those in the U.S.A. who have no social support while they cannot get any work, but get imprisoned for a long time when they have stolen food sometimes?

What is about the veterans of Vietnam, who are living worst in a lot of cases, what is about the US-boys who are living in danger in Iraq and Afghanistan? The sons of the Rockefellers and of all the other rich clans who give American politicians the orders - are they among them?

As long as the U.S.A. do not understand the things will not change to good.

jimnyc

10-26-2009, 09:28 PM

I think it would be better to discuss about meaningful consequences of that. A lot of people around the world were delighted of that and I have to admit I belonged to them.

What the fuck? Am I missing something in the translation here? Are you saying you were originally delighted at what took place on 9/11?

Where are you from?

Winfried Sobottka

10-26-2009, 09:41 PM

What the fuck? Am I missing something in the translation here? Are you saying you were originally delighted at what took place on 9/11?

Where are you from?

I am from Germany, I have just complemented the "about me". If You should want to visit me: Winfried Sobottka, Karl-Haarmann-Str. 75, 44536 Lünen, Germany. You can be sure that C.I.A. knows me:

I think my words in the last entry are very clear. If You are not sure whether You can read correctly You should visit a medic, perhaps an eye specialist.

Mr. P

10-26-2009, 11:59 PM

There are trolls and there are true nuts.

n0spam4me

10-27-2009, 09:32 AM

This was with reference to the structure of the Twin towers....

"The backbones of the Twins were built of steel which is a very good conductor of heat. That means the heat of the large fires in the Twins was conducted through their "backbones" from top to down. That means a grave loss of consistency. Furthermore the Twins catched an enormous kinetic energy, and a part of that changed the molecular structure of the "backbones", too, You can take that as an attrition of the steel."

Please note, that the jet fuel only had an hour to heat up the steel (in the case of the first tower to fall) and the smoky fires where an indication of cool fires with not enough heat to do any real damage. Even the NIST report states that only VERY small parts of the steel showed any indication that it had been heated at all. The lower two thirds or more of the twin towers remained COLD during the fires that day, the ONLY way that both towers could have "collapsed" in the manner observed, would be if the event was pre-planned and aided by explosives (or what, somekinda high-tech weapon, ... magic?). To accomplish the complete destruction of the towers and WTC7, as observed ... tens of thousands of welds, & bolts, would have to fail right on Q.

Truly, the emperor is NAKED!

jimnyc

10-27-2009, 09:44 AM

I think my words in the last entry are very clear. If You are not sure whether You can read correctly You should visit a medic, perhaps an eye specialist.

Please read the rules, Medic. Maybe YOUR eye specialist can tell you that we don't allow "advertising" via signatures without pre-approval. And if that picture in your profile is of yourself, maybe you can seek out a local plastic surgeon?

Regardless of what you look like - you can stick your "delight" at what happened on 9/11 directly up your ass.

Please note, that the jet fuel only had an hour to heat up the steel (in the case of the first tower to fall) and the smoky fires where an indication of cool fires with not enough heat to do any real damage. Even the NIST report states that only VERY small parts of the steel showed any indication that it had been heated at all. The lower two thirds or more of the twin towers remained COLD during the fires that day, the ONLY way that both towers could have "collapsed" in the manner observed, would be if the event was pre-planned and aided by explosives (or what, somekinda high-tech weapon, ... magic?). To accomplish the complete destruction of the towers and WTC7, as observed ... tens of thousands of welds, & bolts, would have to fail right on Q.

Truly, the emperor is NAKED!

Wrong again! You lied when you said you read the entire NIST report. If you did, you would know how much damage the steel took, how much it weakened, how much the fireproofing was destroyed, how the bearings gave way - and how the building collapsed as a result. You state that "tens of thousands of welds, & bolts, would have to fail right on Q" - and if they didn't come off as a result of a progressive collapse - then SURELY you have some physical evidence to share with us as to what actually had them fail?

Gaffer

10-27-2009, 02:15 PM

I am from Germany, I have just complemented the "about me". If You should want to visit me: Winfried Sobottka, Karl-Haarmann-Str. 75, 44536 Lünen, Germany. You can be sure that C.I.A. knows me:

I think my words in the last entry are very clear. If You are not sure whether You can read correctly You should visit a medic, perhaps an eye specialist.

I have been reading your posts these past few days. It was obvious from the beginning you were not from the US or any English speaking country. You type with an accent.

It's also obvious from your posts that you know nothing about America. You seem to get your knowledge from propaganda and hollywood movies. You don't even know the difference between a prison and a jail. And pride is the only reason for anyone in this country to go hungry.

Based on your posts in this thread your either an ignorant fool who believes the propaganda he's been fed, or your a evil little slimball showing his support of murderers.

You really need to get your facts straight before posting. Or at least ask questions since you know so little about us.

chesswarsnow

10-27-2009, 04:09 PM

Sorry bout that,

1. Hey Winfried, look man I understand you live in a sucky country now.
2. But don't take it out on USA man, you brought it upon yourselves.
3. Taxed to death.
4. All those hand outs, with all them dang muslims you keep letting in.
5. Who just sit back and live on Germany working class.
6. Free housing, food, education, medical, evrythings free, if your an arab.
7. I say your country is sucking bad right about now.
8. Anarchy looks good compared to what you have now.
9. Your basically in a self made hell hole.
10. I pity your nation.
11. But don't ever make claims how you liked seeing arabs attack us, you will draw back a nub, and be kicked off this site, if you keep that crap up.
12. We also have a arab problem here, and people are just like those there who are in power, to stupid to listen to sound reason.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

gabosaurus

10-27-2009, 04:14 PM

There are trolls and there are true nuts.
And then there are truly psychotic nuts. Such as the OP.

gabosaurus

10-27-2009, 04:20 PM

Hello, my name is Winfried Sobottka and I am looking for a place of free information!
Free information and freedom of opinion - allegedly we have that in all countries of the world. But the reality is another one: This world couldnīt be that stupid without a giantic surpressing of informations and freedom of opinion. Some do it very obviously, others more subtly, but anyhow it seems to be nearly the same everywhere.

I am a German Anarchist and my statement is the following: True freedom of information and of discussion in public is as well the necessary as the effectual condition for a world without systematical defects.

In other words, you are a spammer from a German lunatic fringe group. Of which there are many.
My sister reads German. I am having her read Winnie's profile. Not to mention his arrest record. :p

Winfried Sobottka

10-27-2009, 06:14 PM

This was with reference to the structure of the Twin towers....

"The backbones of the Twins were built of steel which is a very good conductor of heat. That means the heat of the large fires in the Twins was conducted through their "backbones" from top to down. That means a grave loss of consistency. Furthermore the Twins catched an enormous kinetic energy, and a part of that changed the molecular structure of the "backbones", too, You can take that as an attrition of the steel."

Please note, that the jet fuel only had an hour to heat up the steel (in the case of the first tower to fall) and the smoky fires where an indication of cool fires with not enough heat to do any real damage. Even the NIST report states that only VERY small parts of the steel showed any indication that it had been heated at all. The lower two thirds or more of the twin towers remained COLD during the fires that day,

If so then the steel in the lower parts couldnīt get weak by heat. But You have to consider the kinetic energy which was absorbed by the twins and may have weakened the steel. Furthermore: Surely the fires heated the steel beyond them - and destroyed that way the upper parts of the backbones.

The result: The upperparts collapsed and their weight wasnīt hold by an adequate construction concerning the static. So that weight may have let the levels crash one after the other - like dominos, only from top to down?

the ONLY way that both towers could have "collapsed" in the manner observed, would be if the event was pre-planned and aided by explosives (or what, somekinda high-tech weapon, ... magic?). To accomplish the complete destruction of the towers and WTC7, as observed ... tens of thousands of welds, & bolts, would have to fail right on Q.

Truly, the emperor is NAKED!

The towers collapsed from top to down, that way was observed, wasnīt it? That makes it impossible that explosives applied on the lower levels could have given any effect. Think from the start: The backbones in the upper part cannot hold the subststance any more, and the first floor breaks. Heavy material falls down - to the next floor that is hold only by weakened back-bones. It breaks. Now the material of at least two levels falls to the third floor and so on. Even if the backbones in the lower part were OK yet - the heavy material falling down from the upper part breaks one floor after the other: No architect calculates any static with security-buffers of several thousand % !!!

Calculated static implies a special burden of the "backbones", special regarding the points where the burden gives effects and special regarding the directions the burden gives effects! If You change any aspects then the same backbones that can hold the burden usually may break. You can imagine that very easy: Take a match, put it at itīs length between thumb and forefinger. Try to break it that way. Then try how easy it is to break just the same match in another way. That is the point.

With kindest regards

Your sincer

Winfried Sobottka, United Anarchists

Winfried Sobottka

10-27-2009, 06:23 PM

In other words, you are a spammer from a German lunatic fringe group. Of which there are many.
My sister reads German. I am having her read Winnie's profile. Not to mention his arrest record. :p

I have never been in prison. Your Sister should go and kick her German teacher at his balls.

Winfried Sobottka

10-27-2009, 06:41 PM

To all the nice and most intelligent guys here:

The U.S.A. are divine! Highest product in the universe! And every one of You is so beautiful, so intelligent, so superhyperdupatriggerballa that even God is jealous!

But I do not intend to communicate with guys like You. I will communicate with those who are standing at the same low level as I do. :dance:

jimnyc

10-27-2009, 07:50 PM

To all the nice and most intelligent guys here:

The U.S.A. are divine! Highest product in the universe! And every one of You is so beautiful, so intelligent, so superhyperdupatriggerballa that even God is jealous!

But I do not intend to communicate with guys like You. I will communicate with those who are standing at the same low level as I do. :dance: