Thursday, 7 May 2015

Im a yes voter, for equality on this position, its that simple, possible pension costs can be limited and are not a reason to vote no, disappointment with the choice of referendums is not a reason to vote no, not wanting a young president is not a reason to prevent others from making that choice.

Only two of 18 recommendations for constitutional change made by the Convention on the Constitution are to be put to referendum.

Who chose the second referendum, the Taoiseach did, not the convention. Kenny did not want another controversial referendum along side the Marriage Equality Referendum, Fine Gael promised in its manifesto (pg 62) a constitution day where maybe even 3 or 4 referendums would be held on the same day, you could have had mutiple referendums on presidentials issues on the same day. This would have reduced the criticism of this amendment. The Labour manifesto promised a rewritten constitution. They see political reform as luxury, compared to fixing the economy, they didn't spend department man hours on it sooner, they promsied a constitution day,so picked one with little associated work. The Marriage Euqality referendum was also discussed and recommended at the Constitutional Convention but it would have happened anyway.

Its seems it came from the table Derek Keating TD was on (he mentioned it in his submission) and from the table Ivana Bacik was on and (Labour's legal advisor Cllr Richard Chambers mentioned it in his submission) and from table 6 (I can't see which politicians were on that table) but generally its seemed to come from a question of having a maximun age for presidency which came from two tables, considering the age of our current president and whether he'd want or feel obliged to do two terms.
at 8 minutes.
Tom Arnold says 'these [questions] are our best effort ot reflect the the discussion'.
The ballot is discussed by the room and it seems the advisors write the ballots after the presentations and after talking with the convention members.Previous Constitutional Reviews

The majority of members favours no change, or only a minor
reduction, in the age limit

commented as follows on this section:
There is an apparent discrepancy between the English
and Irish versions. The Irish version has ‘ag a bhfuil
cúig bliana tríochad slán’ (that is, has completed thirty-
five years), whereas the English version is ‘who has
reached his thirty-fifth year of age’, which could mean
has entered rather than completed that year.

This discrepancy should be removed by substituting the word
‘completed’ for ‘reached’ in the English version.

following this,
recommends (on p. 89) substituting the word ‘completed’
for ‘reached’ in the English text. The Twentieth Amendment
of the Constitution Bill, 1999, which proposed to lower
the age-limit for candidates for the Presidency, dealt with
the noted inconsistency by proposing to substitute ‘the
age of eighteen years’ for ‘his thirty-fifth year of age’ – i.e.
rather than substituting ‘his eighteenth year of age’

Every citizen who has reached his thirty-fifth year of age is eligible for election to the office of President.
Every citizen who has reached the age of twenty-one years is eligible for election to the office of President.

English Irish discrepancy

There is a issue in the contradiction between the English version saying the candidate needs to be 35 and the Irish version saying the candidate needs to be 34, the Irish version of law takes precedence.
Richard Humphreys Labour's Councillors and legal advisor mentioned it, Richard Humphreys Submission. 21/01/2013,

5. If the voting age is reduced, I would strongly urge the Convention to recommend that as a consequential measure, the age for eligibility to be a member of the Dail be reduced to 18. Nor can I see any logical reason why one is not a “full citizen” in the sense of being eligible to be President, until age 35. The onerous requirements regarding nomination of the President are a sufficient guarantee of the capacity of the candidate. Insofar as there is a distinction between the precise terms of the English and Irish text as to the age of the President, this should also be addressed. Any reduction in the age of parliamentarians or local authority members below 18 would be more problematic given that it could be said that there is a need for the parliamentarian or indeed member of a local authority to be of full legal capacity.

6. I would therefore suggest that the age to be a TD or President be reduced to 18 and the age to vote in Dail elections be reduced to 16.

Eligibility to become President of Ireland and the election of the President

To be eligible as a candidate for the Presidency, the candidate must be an Irish citizen of 35 years or more.1 There is a conflict between the English and Irish texts of the Constitution with regard to the eligibility age, the English text states that the candidate must be at least 35 years, and the Irish text states that the candidate must have completed his/her 35th year, meaning they must be 36 years of age. Article 25.5.4 provides that the Irish text prevails in an interpretation of the constitution; therefore, the age is 36 years. While this has, thus far, never arisen as an issue, it is a matter which requires amendment at the opportune time.

Divergences between the official texts
1 While the English text requires a Presidential candidate
to have ‘reached his thirty-fifth year of age’, which it
has been noted the candidate would do on his thirty-
fourth birthday, the Irish text requires him to have
completed thirty five years.

The Schedule of the Bill — Part 1 provides for the amendment of the Irish text of Article 12.4.1° of the Constitution to provide that every citizen who has reached the age of twenty-one years is eligible
for election to the office of President.

The Schedule of the Bill — Part 2 provides for the amendment of the English text of Article 12.4.1° of the Constitution to provide that every citizen who has reached the age of twenty-one years is eligible for election to the office of President. The English text is based on the text of Article 16.1.1° of the Constitution, which provides that every citizen ‘who has reached the age of twenty-one years. . .’ is eligible for membership of Dáil Éireann. The approach taken in the Constitution Amendment Bill addresses a potential conflict between the Irish and English text of Article 12.4.1° as it currently stands — while the Irish text requires a presidential candidate to have completed thirty-five years of age, the English text requires the candidate only to have ‘reached his [or her] thirty-fifth year of age’, which one would do on one’s thirty-fourth birthday. Both the Irish and English texts of the Bill are aligned and provide that every citizen who has reached the age of twenty-one years is eligible for election to the office of President.

2015-03-25 Ann Phelan Minister of State with responsibility for rural economic development and rural transport at the Departments of Agriculture, Food and the Marine and Transport, Tourism and Sport. (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)

I am satisfied that the Government's approach in linking the age of eligibility requirement to that which applies to the case of the Dáil and the European Parliament, is the logical and, therefore, the appropriate approach.

I have also noted commentary in the media and elsewhere that the referendum proposal in the Bill is, in some way, not as significant as some of the other proposals for constitutional reform that have emerged from the Constitutional Convention. I do not accept that view. Article 12 of the Constitution provides that the President shall "take precedence over all the other persons in the State" and "shall exercise and perform the powers and functions conferred on the President by this Constitution and by law". Given this position in the Constitution, the proposal to reduce the age at which a citizen is eligible for election to the Of

The Age of Presidential Candidates Referendum
In this referendum, you may vote
Yes or No to the proposal to reduce the age at which candidates are eligible for election to the office of President from 35 to 21.
The proposal is contained in the Thirty-fifth Amendment of the Constitution (Age of Eligibility for Election to the Office of President) Bill 2015

The current Article 12.4.1° of the Constitution states:

Every citizen who has reached his thirty-fifth year of age is eligible for election to the office of President.

It is proposed to replace this with:

Every citizen who has reached the age of twenty-one years is eligible for election to the office of President.

How many no voters were there for #presref in Labour that they chose not to take a position?
I know the Labour Pary doesn't enforce party line on referendums but doesn't lack of active effort by TDs not undermine political reform.
I know referendums are different and theres no whip,but Labour cabinet members proposed it you think TDs would make an effort one way or the other.Labour will not take position on presidential age referendum15/04/2015 Irish Times Mary Minihan