The difference for me between this and game 6 of the West finals last year, was how the Wolves handled the calls compared to the Kings. Minnesota didn't cry, KG kept his head up and went to the bench even after the flop. They knew they would find a way to win anyway. Chris Webber would have cried his eyes out over that call and that is why it is so easy for me to dislike the Kings. Plus he went to Michigan.

Originally posted by Quezzy...and why is Pargo even getting calls? This is the very fist time i've seen or even heard of the guy and he's get favorable calls in the playoffs.

Why WOULDNT Pargo be getting calls in the play-offs? What happened to all that "Superstars shouldn't get all the favorable calls" stuff you were just talking about? So now just because he's a rookie, there are certain calls he shouldnt get?

It's always amazing to me how people hating on a certain team or person will bring up any reason they can to start bashing, even when they only end up contradicting themselves.

I'm not contradicting myself. I don't think anyone should get favorable calls like i said before. BUT THEY DO favor certain players. So since that is their way of calling fouls then why give Pargo anything. I'm not saying Pargo shouldn't get the calls because he's a rookie, he should get calls but HE WASN'T fouled. If you couldn't see that well then you're blind. There is absolutely no way you can argue that play was a foul.

Originally posted by Quezzy...and why is Pargo even getting calls? This is the very fist time i've seen or even heard of the guy and he's get favorable calls in the playoffs.

Why WOULDNT Pargo be getting calls in the play-offs? What happened to all that "Superstars shouldn't get all the favorable calls" stuff you were just talking about? So now just because he's a rookie, there are certain calls he shouldnt get?

It's always amazing to me how people hating on a certain team or person will bring up any reason they can to start bashing, even when they only end up contradicting themselves.

I'm not contradicting myself. I don't think anyone should get favorable calls like i said before. BUT THEY DO favor certain players. So since that is their way of calling fouls then why give Pargo anything. I'm not saying Pargo shouldn't get the calls because he's a rookie, he should get calls but HE WASN'T fouled. If you couldn't see that well then you're blind. There is absolutely no way you can argue that play was a foul.

all i have to say is two words, "chin foul", sometimes i belive shaq and kobe can flat out punch another player in the face and the other play would pick up a personal

Well, now it's 2-2. I didn't see the game today, so I didn't see the latest round of horrid officiating. I swear to God, Wally S. got about 19,246,245 calls against him in the last few minutes of Game 3. I believe he got a technical for looking funny at Jack Nicholson.

The referees didn't win this one for the Lakers. Garnett missing some key free throws, Shaq getting offensive boards, and the Lakers rally down the stretch sealed this one. Regardless of how Game 4 turned out, it is imperative for the Wolves to win Game 5.

There certainly was a blatant offensive foul not called on Shaq near the end of the game - when Horry threw in the long pass and Shaq just ran over Smith. Shaw is going to get the calls no matter what. Stern is not going to change anything. Besides, we need that Lakers/Celtics Finals matchup, don't we, Frosty?

hmmm david stern could always hire bagdad bob as a ref, bad thing about that is that it might make the officiating better, yeah get stevie wonder and ray charles too, anyone know where i can find a clip of the barkley/shaq fight?

... I do too, but it's a philosophical scenario. It's not reality. I've followed the Lakers for over 20 years. The Showtime era, the Dunleavy-Pfund era, the Van Exel era (perhaps my favorite Laker team ever, even though they never won), and the current Shaq-Kobe era.

I waited twelve years for the Lakers to win another title. Now, that isn't long compared to other droughts, and I'm not crying. But I saw the teams that the Lakers were chasing in the 90's (Phoenix, Houston, Utah, San Antonio) and I saw them get a tremendous amount of favorable calls. During the Season, the Lakers would more than hold their own with these teams, and in certain years L.A. would beat them like a drum -- but once the Playoffs started, there was a "prestige" factor involved with the refs, and everyone could see it.

I'd see a weak layup attmept put up by an ancient Clyde Drexler, spending his final days as a player with the Champion Rockets ... and see the attempt get slammed back into his face by a young Laker, Eddie Jones, and there would be nothing touched by both players except the basketball ... and I'd hear a whistle. Clyde to the line. Eddie to the bench -- foul trouble. Tony Smith comes into the game for L.A. Rockets win by two. It would piss me off. And I saw it ALL THE TIME. The ref would look right at Karl Malone pushing Vlade Divac or Elden Campbell out of the way to grab a rebound, and he'd do nothing. Back the other way. Malone flops, foul on Campbell for charging. Lakers out of fouls. Free throw time. Lakers lose another close one. And it didn't matter at all where the game was played -- L.A. or elsewhere.

It's part of earning your way to the top; climbing the mountain. The real reason the Kings lost to L.A. last year is because they missed their crucial outside jumpers and missed too many of their free throws. It was theirs for the taking, and they beat themselves. I don't think they have it in them to win it all now. I could be wrong. But I think they're a worse club than they were last year. They STILL are immature; still take too many technical fouls. The Lakers KNOW they know how to win; the Kings aren't sure if they know how to win. There's a difference there, and it's separate from any referee's calls.

It's the same thing now with Minnesota. The Wolves are a fine, hard-working team. I love Kevin Garnett -- he's a freaking GAMER; intense as hell. But Game 4 saw the Lakers staggering by the ropes, and Minnesota couldn't deliver the KO. And they've lost the series because of it. Garnett knew it when he talked to the press after the game. He KNEW.

"The referees didn't win this one for the Lakers. Garnett missing some key free throws, Shaq getting offensive boards, and the Lakers rally down the stretch sealed this one."

... There's a theme developing here, isn't there? The Kings did the same thing last year. And the fulcrum, critical Game 5?? Wolves have everything ready. They're healthy and the Lakers are not. They have a raucous crowd on their side. It's all set. And what happens?? On the road, Lakers by THIRTY. It's over. Thanks for playing.

"Granted that my second favorite team is anybody playing against the Lakers"

... that tells me all I need to know, really. But I respect your honesty.

Technically, the Wolves haven't lost the series, but the series might as well have ended last night. That Game 4 loss took a lot more out of them than first thought, and the Lakers just steamrolled them. The Lakers do know how to win when they absolutely, positively have to. Hopefully, the Spurs close out this nailbiter of a series against Phoenix tomorrow so they can get ready for the Lakers.

JT Dutch: I think there's a difference between seeing calls one way because they're going against your team, and what we saw in Game 3. In your Clyde Drexler example, Blazers fans might say that Drexler got hammered, and Jones was nowhere near the ball. It's a matter of perspective.

But what happened the other night was a totally different story, as NBA fans seem to unilaterally agree that at least a FEW of those calls were bogus, and had the potential to decide the game. There are a few examples of that happening in the last few years, and they've always been in the favor of the big market team (Lakers/Knicks/Celtics/Bulls, etc.).

It's something that David Stern really needs to take a look at, because in this instance, perception is reality. I know I wasn't the only one calling "shenanigans" last Thursday night. And while I've backed off from the "the whole f'n thing's fixed" stance, there are people that haven't. And that's potentially more dangerous to the image of the NBA than anything Allen Iverson or the Portland Trail Blazers could do.

And this series isn't over yet. Now, if they lose, this might be the first one where they lost to a team they could have beat. I've always thought it was wrong to bring up Minny's past playoff failures, because they've lost to teams that were clearly better. That's not the case this year. Los Angeles is not clearly superior to Minnesota. They are about as even as you'd expect a 4/5 matchup to be. I still think it goes seven games, and I still think the Lakers squeeze it out, because of their playoff experience. But now, I don't think they'll make it out of the West.

Time to come clean. I hate the NBA. Not as much as I hate the NHL, but in that area. I dislike exhibition basketball that is predetermined as much as possible. I started hating it when the Magic got the 66-to-1 first pick in the draft years ago, continued thru the sham Jordan retirements covering up his gambling, the near-destruction of the Bulls thanks to Jordan's ego (and Stern's head being up MJ's ass), and the ridiculous over-expansion of the league. It's a steaming mound.

That being said, I've pretty much enjoyed the manipulation fo the playoffs to get the Lakers as much exposure as possible. Maybe some fans will finally see Davey Boy Stern and his co-horts for the money-grubbing game fixers they are, and stop paying these teams money for tickets.

Wow. I've seen team-hating (lots of Laker-hating in perticular), but I've never seen entire LEAGUE-hating. And you had me totally fooled into thinking you were a FAN too! Damn.

Anywho, I just wanted to send a quick shout-out to pieman and his Boston Celtics for advancing to the 2nd round. Oh, and I wanted to also maybe squeeze in a tiny mention regarding my Los Angeles Lakers advancing to the second round as well.

And while I'm sure KG will feel the brunt of not advancing in the playoffs for the seventh straight time, I don't think you can pin this one on him.

The constant knock on the Woofies has been that KG has no players around him. And finally, the role players around him took that to heart and stepped up. Anthony Peeler stepped up on defense. Marc Jackson practically doubled his PPG from the regular season. Rod Strickland ran the offense practically on one leg to get Troy Hudson some rest. And we all know what Hudson did. The only one who disappeared was Szczerbiak, who never quite found his stroke, despite averaging 14 PPG. Had he been stroking as usual, I think this would have been a very different series.

So kudos to Frosty, JT Dutch and any other Laker fans on the board on your Lakers advancing to the second round, although I may consider hopping on the Kings Bandwagon. Is there room for me on there, CRZ?

Originally posted by BattlezoneSo kudos to Frosty, JT Dutch and any other Laker fans on the board on your Lakers advancing to the second round, although I may consider hopping on the Kings Bandwagon. Is there room for me on there, CRZ?