RobertBruce:InmanRoshi: Every libertarian utopia somehow revolves around people living off the land in some rural outpost. The trouble is commerce and capitalism encourages population density. I'd love to hear how libertarianism works in a condensed urban environment where 9 million people are forced to share a finite amount of resources and land.

Same as now, except without laws other than those that protect body and property.

InmanRoshi:RobertBruce: InmanRoshi: Every libertarian utopia somehow revolves around people living off the land in some rural outpost. The trouble is commerce and capitalism encourages population density. I'd love to hear how libertarianism works in a condensed urban environment where 9 million people are forced to share a finite amount of resources and land.

Same as now, except without laws other than those that protect body and property.

Pocket Ninja:Libertarians are the atheists of the political world, in that many of them will loudly and frequently tell you they are that thing, but a very small percentage of them -- a miniscule amount, really -- actually know what being that thing means. Most of them have chosen to self-label as a reaction to something else, not out of conscious selection, and almost none of them can identify more than the most patently obvious truisms about their "chosen" belief system. They know what they've been told, or what they've read about being told, and that's about it.

That sounds like they are the Evangelical Christians of the political world.

CHOCK THINKS THAT BOTH PARTIES ARE BAD AND CAVEMEN SHOULD THEREFORE VOTE FOR THE GREAT OLD PRIMITIVE CANDIDATE. IF YOU DON'T CHOCK WILL BE ANGRY AND YOU WOULDN'T LIKE CHOCK ANGRY. AFTER ALL CHOCK WAS IN THE SWIMFIGHT CORE AND CAN SMASH YOU AT A WHIM.

CHOC WOULD ENGRAVE MORE RESPONSES BUT CHOC HAS TO BE AT ROCK LIFTING IN 26 MINUTES.

jigger:worlddan: But at least Christians have a coherent belief system. It might be a childish fantasy but at least it is coherent and consistent within itself.

Have you ever actually read the Bible?

And two things about this thread. (1) Jonah Goldberg writes about what libertarianism is and ain't when he's far from one and has no idea wtf he's talking about, but why should that stop anyone. (2) The person who uses force and intimidation to get what they want is the troglodyte caveman, not the person who wishes to live peacefully with his neighbors.

FloydA:[i105.photobucket.com image 338x450]GRUNG LIKE STONE BUTTS ME NO CAN LIECRO-MAGNON NO CAN DENYWHEN FEMALE WALK WITH BLOBBY SAGGY WAISTAND TWO BOULDERS IN GRUNG FACEME START DROOLIN' AND ME NO FOOLIN'THAT BUTT BEST IN WHOLE ACHEULEANME WANT GIVE YOU A LIFTAND CARVE YOU PETROGLYPHNEANDERTALS CALLED ME SICKBUT THAT BUTT YOU GOT'S PALEOLITHIC!

IRQ12:You may be right. If the "social connotation" is: "I'm afraid of saying I am an atheist or libertarian because almost every single one I have ever heard from is an obnoxious asshole who really has no clue of what they are talking about and most people I meet think the same, regardless of their beliefs."

You know why ALL atheists seem so offensive? It's not their behavior. It's because to Christians, their lack of belief is an affront- their existence is inherently offensive. So Christians attempt to skew the perceptions of everyone around them so that any behavior by atheists other than "pretending not to exist" is aggressive. Congrats. You fell for it.

verbaltoxin:Walter Paisley: If you're sick of how both of the major parties are terrible when it comes to civil liberties, take a look at some of the other third party options before deciding to vote Libertarian. How about voting Green? We've also got weed and we'll even share it with you rather than giving a lecture about why we have weed and you don't.

GREENS TOO BUSY PROTESTING DITCH DIGGING ACROSS MARSH TO RUN ELECTION GOOD

You've got a point there, but an even bigger problem is disorganization. Infighting amongst American lefties is every bit as much of a tradition as baseball and apple pie.

Walter Paisley:verbaltoxin: Walter Paisley: If you're sick of how both of the major parties are terrible when it comes to civil liberties, take a look at some of the other third party options before deciding to vote Libertarian. How about voting Green? We've also got weed and we'll even share it with you rather than giving a lecture about why we have weed and you don't.

GREENS TOO BUSY PROTESTING DITCH DIGGING ACROSS MARSH TO RUN ELECTION GOOD

You've got a point there, but an even bigger problem is disorganization. Infighting amongst American lefties is every bit as much of a tradition as baseball and apple pie.

MAYBE EAGLE CLAN LEFT PEOPLE NEED BAND TOGETHER UNDER VANGUARD BANNER AND GO WAR WITH RIGHT PEOPLE?

Ed Grubermann:RobertBruce: Ed Grubermann: RobertBruce: InmanRoshi: Every libertarian utopia somehow revolves around people living off the land in some rural outpost. The trouble is commerce and capitalism encourages population density. I'd love to hear how libertarianism works in a condensed urban environment where 9 million people are forced to share a finite amount of resources and land.

Same as now, except without laws other than those that protect body and property.

A polluted shiathole full of untested and dangerous goods? Sounds like paradise.

Kind of like now... or do you actually think the FDA is ethically run?

Well, not since big business interests gutted it, no. How is that a point in your favor?

The basic take away is that left to itself businesses will massively abuse their customers, when government regulates initially it will do a moderately good job, so people will start to ignore it, so businesses will take the chance to try and corrupt/bypass the regulatory body. Things get bad so political pressure is put on the government to improve it, and for a while it will improve again and close loopholes, etc.

The problem in the US is that one side has decided government can't do anything right, so there is no pressure on government agencies from either those voters or those politicians to make them better, so they will be worse than the equivalent in a well functioning political system where you aren't electing people who are incentivized to make government perform as badly as possible because it supports their political position and weakens the opposition.

You've got a point there, but an even bigger problem is disorganization. Infighting amongst American lefties is every bit as much of a tradition as baseball and apple pie.

The American left reminds me of the Palestinians. The only thing the Palestinians hate worse than the Israelis is each other. The difficult task in a multicultural democracy is not the generation of new ideas or new perspectives but the building of consensus. But it much more fun to fight. :-( So we get the government we deserve.

FloydA:[i105.photobucket.com image 338x450]GRUNG LIKE STONE BUTTS ME NO CAN LIECRO-MAGNON NO CAN DENYWHEN FEMALE WALK WITH BLOBBY SAGGY WAISTAND TWO BOULDERS IN GRUNG FACEME START DROOLIN' AND ME NO FOOLIN'THAT BUTT BEST IN WHOLEACHEULEANME WANT GIVE YOU A LIFTAND CARVE YOU PETROGLYPHNEANDERTALS CALLED ME SICKBUT THAT BUTT YOU GOT'S PALEOLITHIC!