Quote:And who provides that evidence that would satisfy you? The PHds and others provided Scientific evidence, and you will not belive them? Again, I suggest you search the subject here.

I did and I asked Mark for more information/data on his studies. Aside from his statements, I see no other objective data on the audibility issue.

Kal

What do you consider 'objective data'? Measurements are measurements. Mechanical engineering tells us that all materials change characteristics when vibrated. Some more than others. Steel, for example, can take a month or more (this info from an engineer who designs bridges) for self resonances to disappear. So that is steel. OK. Other hard materials, such as aluminum/magnesium cones would change more than paper, depending upon the composition. So it is a matter of degree.

A more practical anecdotal, extreme example. I heard a Scanspeak famous 7" woofer, in a wood cabinet (with mids and tweeter of course), dramatically changed sound over time. When I heard a friends new one, the bass was so tight and thin I couldn't not stand it. We are talking bright sound.

He brought it back a month later for me to audition, and the bass was so heavy I could not take that either. No 'brain learning there'. He went so far as to not only install fiberglass inside, but also lined the entire insides with lead. Still too boomy.

I need no convincing about speaker breakin. Kal, I cannot force you to believe anything. As I said, continue to do your own testing and go from there.

Quote:What do you consider 'objective data'? Measurements are measurements. Mechanical engineering tells us that all materials change characteristics when vibrated. Some more than others. Steel, for example, can take a month or more (this info from an engineer who designs bridges) for self resonances to disappear. So that is steel. OK. Other hard materials, such as aluminum/magnesium cones would change more than paper, depending upon the composition. So it is a matter of degree.

All that is, and was, granted. The issue is the audibility of such changes as they occur in audio equipment, particularly speakers.

Quote:What do you consider 'objective data'? Measurements are measurements. Mechanical engineering tells us that all materials change characteristics when vibrated. Some more than others. Steel, for example, can take a month or more (this info from an engineer who designs bridges) for self resonances to disappear. So that is steel. OK. Other hard materials, such as aluminum/magnesium cones would change more than paper, depending upon the composition. So it is a matter of degree.

All that is, and was, granted. The issue is the audibility of such changes as they occur in audio equipment, particularly speakers.

Quote: Kal, I cannot force you to believe anything.

Belief is not the issue.

Kal

Ah, that is twisting what I said. For example, to accept any fact one has to believe it. So belief is an issue. If you do not wish to believe white is lighter in 'color' than black, I cannot force you to believe it, even though it is a fact.

I have no trouble determining what is fact and what is not, when it comes to speaker breakin. Some are clearly audible, and some may not be (since I have not heard all speakers).

I would suggest you do more research until you determine, in your own mind, what is true and what is not. Is that phrased better?

Speaker break-in is absolutely real. I used to hand make speakers by buying components and fabricating my own cabinet and crossovers. I couldn't dream of delivering my speakers without at least 24 hours of breakin period. Freshly made (or bought) units sound like pigs going to the market most of the time. I recently purchased Electra 1037 BE's from Focal JM Labs. The manual clearly states a break-in period of 25 - 50 hours initially and a complete breakin in a 'few weeks'. I am even convinced of speaker cable breakins.. but that is another controversy....

I am quite happy with my martian ears They assist in discerning the constricted bass, edgy high end and couped in mids on new or 'cold' wires. New cables, depending upon technology, follow the 2/2 rule. 80% break-in in first 2 days and 20% in 2 weeks. Ask any reputable cable manufacturer; they will recommend a break-in period.Actually you need a break-in or warm-up every day. takes about half to one hour when you put your system on. And finally, don't let the cables sprawl across the carpet(worst under it) or on the wooden floor. Cables should ideally be suspended in air between cable lifters. Try lifting and dropping cables (specially interconnects) while listening - you will instantly become a proud owner of martian ears too...happy listening.P.S my system: Krell amplification, Shunyata cables, Focal Electra 1037BE speakers, Hydra power conditioners and misc. vibration control gizmos under the components