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Personal issues -internal problems and behaviors that cause you problems in relationships

edit 1 She was born and raised in LA, but still heavily involved in Korean culture due to parents, friends, etc. She does have every right to say it is "ingrained" in her.

edit 2 just had lunch with her after the tension of all of this has subsided. She's already showing that she's working on it greatly...I felt like I had lunch with the girl that I was starting to fall in love with. She used her cuteness in a way I remember best: simple, reserved, more subtle, but attractive. What's important is that we're having actual good conversation again, that's all. Very relieved in one sense, but more cautious entering the next few weeks considering all of these events. To all the responses, thank you, your words are helping me out.

For those who don't know, this is Aegyo - it's part of Korean culture in girls to act like a cutesy innocent child to get guys. It's gross. I'm half korean so I know plenty about it and have experienced it, but never with my actual girlfriend and never like this.

So I've been seeing my girlfriend for about 6+ months now. Things were incredible at first, we met out one night randomly, went out on numerous dates a couple times a week, and really started to connect. A few months down the line, we became exclusive, and I was a lucky guy to have such a smart, mature, but fun girl to be around. We'd go out and have fun with my friends or her friends, spend time together at my place, have incredible sexy time...it was all just great.

And then things started changing.

So she is Korean, and early on we talked about how we didn't understand Korean relationships, why Korean guys are attracted to that shit, etc. It was agreed upon that the accepted cultural norm for guys in Korea is to not care for brains at all, and sometimes even as extreme as "the dumber the girl is, the better". She just has to look pretty and act cutesy, with lots of "Aegyo". We didn't say the word "aegyo" specifically, but it's clear that we were on train of thought.

Before I knew it, once we became official, she started getting more comfortable. This would normally be a good thing, but Aegyo started to come out. Now I didn't really mind at first, or really notice it TOO heavily. It was just sort of there, and I figured it was part-Aegyo, and part-goofiness. I could relate, we were very happy together, and I was also really happy.

Then it just started to become more and more Aegyo from her. A month had passed, and there were days that I would spend with her that felt more Aegyo than the girl I had started to fall in love with. Her stories and cute (but normally toned) sassiness went from interesting and fun to a five-old year version of herself running up and telling me "and then this happened..and this happened and yah yah!!!" I was just... at a lost for words sometimes.

I didn't know how to make it stop, and I didn't know how intentional it was, so I brought it up this past weekend, as gently as humanly possible while conveying that it was becoming a serious issue for me.

The results weren't good, at first she took it in stride but looked hurt. A few days had passed and she started doing Aegyo all morning, and I gently reminded her that she was doing it again. She pretty much broke down at this point, saying that she didn't know what she was doing wrong, and that it was a core part of her personality....

I realize how sensitive of an issue this is, and I can understand how this is difficult. She said it's not intentional when she does it, which I believe. I'd be completely fine with ALL of these events, but after some days of thinking, she seriously said that she "doesn't feel its a negative aspect of herself". She said she'd make efforts to change/tone it down, but truly doesn't see how it's a negative trait to act in that way...which scares me more than anything.

I'm not asking her to get rid of her giddiness and fun on all levels of course, but it's the Aegyo that's truly killing me. I want this to work, so right now we're agreeing to work on both ends to get to a better level.

But ultimately if this just continues and more Aegyo comes out, I'm now apprehensive to bring it up when more Aegyo comes out because she's doesn't see it as a negative trait.

I can put up with small amounts here and there, but this is just such a hard situation...I really feel like she's changed so much and she just feels as though "she's gotten more comfortable". Ultimately though, how someone who's shown me a smart, intelligent, well-spoken, sexy girlfriend just turn into an overbearing Aegyo girlfriend shouldn't be part of getting more comfortable....at least that's how I feel. Is there anything else I can say or do to give her my perspective more on the situation?

tl;dr: Korean Girlfriend was really awesome for first 4-5 months, but once we became "official" and got more comfortable, she turned into an Aegyoified handful that I'm having a hard time handling. I want to make it work and we've set a rule of "we'll work on it on both ends" kind of thing - but what other steps, if any, can I take to get her to chill out on the Aegyo?

Was your girlfriend born and raised in Korea, or elsewhere? The aegyo-ness is pretty ingrained in the Korean culture and it's difficult to just weed it out completely. Even my Korean-American friend has aegyo which she picked up from K-dramas.

Korean girls usually reserve the aegyo for their boyfriends, which explains why your gf didn't show it until you became "official".

I'll go ahead and assume that she was born in Korea. It's unfair to expect her to behave like a westerner, since she didn't grow up in the culture. You'll have to explain to her how westerners act and perhaps eventually she'll adopt their mannerisms.

but truly doesn't see how it's a negative trait to act in that way

It really isn't. It's a desirable, positive trait in Korean society. There only exists relative standards for cultural quirks. What's good in one society may not be acceptable in another.

You'll have to keep reinforcing the notion of "When in Rome.." to her. Hopefully she can dial it down a notch for your sake.

If your gf was not born and raised in Korea, just tell her to lay off the K-dramas for a while.

She was born and raised in LA, but still pretty ingrained within Korean culture. She has every right to claim it is ingrained in her, but similarly, we've both expressed how we hate aspects of Korean culture. To say its ingrained, and to embrace it as a positive attribute, are two different things. I was just surprised that when talking about in a 3rd party perspective, a lot of Korean attributes we view are negative. But when it comes to her aegyo, she can't see the negatives. But she's working on it, so I'm very happy with that start.

You're talking about it like it's objectively bad, when in reality it just annoys you. It would annoy me too, so I see where you're coming from, but if I were you I'd focus on the fact that it simply doesn't appeal to you, rather than whatever objections you have to it in the abstract.

She doesn't see the negatives because to her, she's being cute and fun for her bf. Luckily for you, since your gf's Korean-American, she possesses a reference frame of what's "culturally normal" in the states.

Just approach her tactfully and don't get too irritated. She's trying her best :)

I'm gonna go against the grain here, and not say that this is her personality, and that it cannot be changed. Being ingrained with Korean culture as you say plays a specific role, not so explicitly expressed here yet. All her role models for women in relationships likely had Aegyo to some extent. Whether or not she chose to consciously emulate their tendencies, she likely learned from them what it is to be a Korean lover, wife, mother, etc. On the other hand, she grew up as an American, and became it seems, a well-rounded quality individual. So exists the dissonance of her worlds colliding.

I'm not claiming that you necessarily have a great shot at toning down the Aegyo However, by bringing attention to it (which naturally is going to be painful for her at first), she can simply become more conscious of times when the Aegyo asserts itself. Possibly I am wrong, and this is acutally part of her personality, but I'd hope rather that it is a learned behavior that she has the power to modify or eliminate if she feels for you, as you do for her.

As you said in your other comments, you've addressed the fact that it wasn't present at the start of your relationship, but now is.

I obviously don't know for sure, but it sounds like it's always been a part of her personality, she just didn't want to show it at first. If you're not okay with it, treat it like any other fundamental difference in lifestyle/ personality and find someone more compatible.

Even if she's great in a lot of other ways, there's something in her personality that you can't stand, but maybe there's someone out there who will love that about her. And likewise, you should find someone whose personality you mesh well with.

I agree, if her aegyo is driving you crazy, so much where you are asking reddit, just do yourself a favor and end the relationship. I feel like you aren't willing to accept her aegyo completely which is totally fine! Really! You really dont have to accept it if you dont want to! Some people are just not compatible, and itll be better to end it early on then let it drag on and you begin to resent her.

This is a great response, plus you expect people to be honest with you. If the girl you met isn't the real her, then you're perfectly within reason to say that you aren't attracted to her any more, since she's not who she said she is. This is my argument against fake profile pictures in online dating sites, it's not that you are repulsive in person, it's that this person isn't the person I was lead to believe I'm meeting so the relationship is beginning with zero trust.

Yeah, this is something I've been struggling with for the past few weeks. It's tough because I know there are so many great things about her.

Referring to my 2nd edit, it is possible that she could permanently tone it down back to a level that's reasonable. It's gotten off to a better start than I thought, she's showing that she really cares to work on it for me, so I'm willing to do the same.

This was a point she brought up during the conversation, and I do realize that I'm asking that in so many words. However, I do think there's more to the issue here, we're talking about a girl who went from 0->60 on it in about a month or so, entire days that felt like it was nothing but aegyo...and then her friend or mom would call and of course her normal voice would come back completely.

My need to bring it up is justified, and she acknowledged that. Rather than "tone down her personality", I just want to bring some balance back into it when we interact..

Dude, I am K american too and have had lots of K gfs, including one for 2 years.

My take: You gotta learn to deal with it if you wanna date a K girl. Aegyo is how they deal with guys and how they get guys to do what they want. Even my first K gf who was 30 years old and lived in Canada for 10 years, after a few months, the whining and baby faces came out. It's just K culture.

With my next one, she was full Korean and never lived outside Korea. She got really bad. You learn alot about K culture though from it. Girls just use it to express their emotions and communicate. You can't expect a Korean girl to be american...cause they are Korean. She will pout or say 싫어! or whine if she doesn't get what she wants. On the other hand, an American girl will say "well....fine" or "if that's what you want" then give you the cold shoulder. It's the same thing really, except Korean girls are trained to be a bit more subtle.

My advice. If she is really a great girl, STICK it out! Don't let her go cause you will regret it later. Cross-cultural relationships are hard and they require patience and you have to literally give up a part of yourself to her culture to make it work. Try to just put yourself in her shoes and step back and try to think "what is she trying to accomplish by doing this?" instead of viewing her like a child.

Yes, like, let me get this straight-- this dude is annoyed by a cultural paradigm of cutesy, bubbly, goofy, childish behavior because he feels like that standard of femininity is sexist and implies that girls be subordinate to their boyfriend's desires. He also wants his girlfriend to change her personality and tone down the way she gets excited about things, feels justified enough in this desire to take it to reddit, and sees zero contradiction there?

That is NOT what OP is saying at ALL. It's got nothing to do with sexism or femininity. His girlfriend is acting like a young child and it is making him uncomfortable because she wasn't like this before.

The thing is, you're asking her to change something that is a part of who she is. This isn't like she has a poster in her room that you hate and she's taking it down for you. She's changing something fundamental about herself to please you. There are other guys out there who won't ask her to change, and fwiw, I think you should let her find someone like that. I feel like she might end up resenting you for this down the road.

When someone acts in a problematic way, then it may be worth them curbing and evolving their behaviour. People can learn not to be rude or sarcastic or mocking - just as they can presumably learn not to be "cutesy" and using a fake baby voice.

it is possible that she could permanently tone it down back to a level that's reasonable.

This is incredibly unfair to her. Why don't you adjust to it? Why does she have to completely shed a huge aspect of who she is because it annoys you? I have a feeling that early in the relationship, you didn't notice it despite its presence. Now that it is here, you're telling her to change who she is.

Either she'll not, and you'll dump her, and make her feel like shit because you openly despised her personality so much, or she'll tone it down, resent you, and come to hate you.

The problem is that she wasn't like this to begin with, I'm assuming since it's bothering OP so much that he probably wouldn't have fallen for her quite the same has she been like this from the start. I would agree with you if this was something she has always done and OP suddenly decided that he doesn't like it any more, but I don't think that's the case here.

Part of being in a relationship is understanding that as people get more comfortable, new aspects of their personality emerge. It isn't disingenuous, it's natural. It sucks that she has this personality aspect that emerged when she became comfortable with him, but asking her to change who she is at a fundamental level is ridiculous and insulting.

While that is true, OP has described it as "excessive" and occurred over the space of a month, so to me it sounds like a large, quick change as opposed to a small personality trait that went unnoticed/was easy to hide for fear of embarrassment at the beginning of the relationship.

Asking someone to change something about how they act, if they don't see what's wrong with it is painful no matter what. You should also consider the fact that you could be messing with her self-confidence...do you really want to do that?

Korean here living in seoul atm. Bro you gotta seriously take a hard look at your over sensitive distaste for her aegyo because the problem ain't her... It's you. Do u have issues with self consciousness or animosity to Korean culture from your past? Don't embarrass us Koreans and make it seem like this is some crippling disease of k culture. Love her dammit and come back to reddit when u got real probs.

How bad is her aegyo? Are we talking fake high-pitched infantile speech or her just being bubbly? IMO the latter isn't really aegyo and could be her genuine personality coming out now that she feels safe and comfortable with you, like her inner child or something.

But if her aegyo is late-thirty/forty year old at the noraebang hamming it up for her 50+ year old "oppas" then... yeah you got it bad, bro. I'd feel duped, too.

Speaking from experience of being a Korean-American from southern California and being surrounded by Koreans and the culture here ... It's very much a culturally ingrained thing, and Koreans from southern California, especially LA, are very much tied to Korean culture. I've noticed that even the most Americanized Korean-Americans usually become involved with the culture to a decent degree at some point or another. Korean (and Korean-American) girls are even more likely to watch Korean soap operas and shows and pick up mannerisms. Even more so if they have fellow Korean friends, and it becomes a socially reinforcing thing.

I don't know what to say. If your GF identifies strongly with the Korean culture, I think it's just culturally part of her, including those aegyo-mannerisms. It may end up being something you need to accept and live with or break away from completely, because it's likely part of her identity (cultural/ethnic and personal identity). I would also consider thinking about why it bothers you so much. I think most girls to some degree enjoy being cutesy with their boyfriend because of the love and comfort they feel with them.

Edit: On further thinking, this may just be from the giddy "honeymoon" phase thing too. She may drop the aegyo once the honeymoon phase is over. If you're willing to wait and see, lol

Like it or not, it is who she is. You dislike and are actively annoyed by a significant part of her personality. It is up to you whether you are willing to date her, but don't shame her or give her shit for it your entire relationship. If you don't think you can be with her while she has this as part of her personality, break up with her and find someone else. Your disdain for her will do her more damage in the long run.

From an outside-looking-in perspective, it seems like she's opened up and started to feel comfortable enough around you that she's not trying to impress you all the time. She can be her genuine self, which is sometimes silly and giddy. And as she does that, you're telling her to stop being that, and to go back to putting on the show.

You're portraying it as if she's adopting these "Aegyo" characteristics suddenly, but it sounds like she's saying that's not what's happening. I think you need to listen a little more closely to her when she's telling you about herself.

We all put our best foot forward when we start seeing someone, but keeping that shit up gets exhausting. If her real self is someone that you can't be with, then fair enough, but at least try not to give this girl a complex about her personality on your way out.

Someone explained to me that if you change who you are once you start dating someone, you're changing the person they chose to go out with. With that in mind, it's completely reasonable to change how you feel about someone during a relationship. My advice (and I've never encountered this problem before, or even heard of it so sorry if it's crap) would be to ask her honestly if she really can't tell when she's acting like a 5 year old and when she's not. If she says she can't then ask for an honest, legitimate reason why she wasn't acting like this when you first got together. If she admits that she can and she's doing it on purpose, ask why she thinks she needs to act like that, you're already dating so you're clearly already attracted to her. It might be worth pointing out again to her that you are far more attracted to the intelligent, mature girl you met than a 'cute' immature girl. Just go from there. I find it hard to believe that someone would begin to start acting like a child without noticing, especially since you said she was intelligent and mature but I imagine she will be quite embarrassed to admit that she is doing it on purpose to appear 'cute'.

Clearly in this case, the "act" she was putting on was the "mature woman" one, and now that she's comfortable she's letting loose with her real personality. Not the other way around. How would that even make sense?

ask her honestly if she really can't tell when she's acting like a 5 year old and when she's not. If she says she can't then ask for an honest, legitimate reason why she wasn't acting like this when you first got together.

This. She obviously can tell when she's acting immature, because how else would she be able to stop herself from acting immature?

I get the same way when I am happy/excited and I don't think about it. I am not trying to be this way. I didn't know Aegyo existed. My boyfriend seems to really like when I do it, although I don't care for the trait in myself, I actually find it annoying in most girls.

Perhaps she isn't aiming for Aegyo at all, and its all you can see because you've seen it for so long.

Could be internalized. When you're pressured your whole life to act dumb and cute for male attention and for society's comfort, you start acting like that. I'm 20 year old and consider myself a feminist and even I occasionally see myself doing an American version of this in small ways - but here, it's more like a teenage fetish than a young kid fetish. The fact that she doesn't think it's damaging is upsetting and maybe you should talk to her about WHY it's been internalized in her, it's goals, and why it's bad for women. (It's basically infantilizing them and making sure they are seen as children and needing to be taken care of, they have no agency, no power, etc.) I'm sure there are tons of articles on it.

When you brought it up to her, she mentioned that it's in her personality. It sounds like it wasn't in the first few months, though. Have you brought that up to her? "I don't want to change who you are, but you've changed a bit recently."

I've tried to make that distinction so clear, but she keeps insisting that it IS a part of her. I've said that it wasn't there before and that's why I believe she can work on toning it down, and while she agrees it wasn't there before, she's not confident in her ability to change it. I'm having a hard time understanding it all...

I'm usually more stiff and less open to being 100% myself with people at first, and the more comfortable I feel with them, the more and more I can let myself out. Sometimes it's not even really conscious.

Just because you didn't initially see it in her doesn't mean it was never really there or that non-aegyo self is the real her and the aegyo-self is new. If you aren't attracted to her more open self, I tend to think she may deserve someone who does appreciate it. Just my opinion.

I don't exactly have credentials or authority since I'm not Japanese or a sociologist versed in the comparison of the two cultures, but I am a dual citizen Korean-American grown up with the Korean culture but also a decent interest in Japanese culture (I've watched my fair amount of anime and Japanese soaps and shows).

No two cultures are exactly the same obviously, but both the concept of aegyo and being kawaii are very similar, cutesy in a sort of innocent, charming way (with usually fake high voices). It's difficult to capture in simple English words obviously, more easily observed, and sure there's subtle differences like obviously aegyo is more centered on "oppa~"s and various fingers/hands near face and kawaii is probably a little more inclusive of more than behavior, but the root behavior and mentality is the same in my POV.

I'm going to give it a solid chance to reverse. I had to say something, otherwise I would've completely lost it. We just had lunch and it actually went really well, I can tell she's making a good effort to tone it down.

Relief from the 5-year old version and seeing my actual girlfriend again is very refreshing...but i'm very cautious moving forward for at least a few more weeks.

I didn't know that this behavior had a name! It drives me nuts in Korean soap operas, particularly because it's so whiny. It makes me wonder if there's a switch that suddenly flips when they get married and become ajumas.

It's ok to just not like someone once you discover some part of their personality. I say that because it sounds like you just don't like her as much as you thought you did. It's ok to chalk it up and move on. You're 23. You have so much time....

Edit: i've read more of your posts, and you don't seem to be grasping that it's a part of who she is. She told you this explicitly. Trust her. If you don't like it, move on. You want to change her because you don't like a part of her. That won't work, on so many levels.

You've only been dating 6 months, I think you're seeing the real person now. I think if it bothers you so much (which I think is totally understandable, it would bother me too) you probably need to consider ending the relationship and meeting someone else.

Wouldn't someone whose innate personality was not-Aegyo act less and less Aegyo-y as she got comfortable? Or is it the end product of the "bait and switch" where it creeps and gets more and more insufferable over time? At the risk of fellating Freud what's her mom like (if she hasn't turned into a shovey ajumma yet)

I always LOL when I see Korean couples on the subway where she's pouting and making him carry her bag.

I didn't know aegyo was a "thing", but now I'm wondering if this is why I somehow manage to attract a lot of Korean guys despite being white... they all tell me I have this very appealing, cute, innocent air about me and now I'm cringing because I sometimes exhibit personality traits that you say you hate in this post.

Maybe this is why I'm a hit with the Koreans and not with the white guys. Too many K-dramas and movies? who knows.

Even though it seems odd that this would come out now after being together awhile it still suggests strongly what you are seeing now is the 'real' her. We always have our guard up instinctively when relationships are 'brand new' and our guard gradually comes down over time. If this is really who she is - and I strongly suspect it is - there is only so much 'changing' she will be able to do. And honestly if this is who she really is, it isn't even fair to ask her to change. This is no different than any other issue where a partner in a new relationship wants the person to change to please him/her. It simply doesn't work long term and isn't fair to even ask.

You might have to come to the conclusion that you two are not compatible. It will likely become very uncomfortable for her if she feels she has to keep suppressing her natural proclivities.

It's difficult for me to explain exactly, but it's pronounced a little like eh guyo (but you don't really pronounce the "u", you sort of incorporate it into the g so it's more like... well, "gyo"). Ideally you would force the g back in your mouth so it's more or less indistinguishable from a k, but that doesn't come so naturally to an English-speaking tongue.

Glad things seem better but it's good to stay cautious. What I've learned is that something that annoys you at the beginning of a relationship only becomes much much more horrible later on (not something you get used to). If it bugs you this much now, it's going to kill you later on. You are asking her to change who she acts around you and that is hard, to try to change what you are doing when you aren't aware of it is not easy and is exhausting because you have to think of your actions and words constantly. It's not fair for either of you. There are guys that would love this about her and maybe they may be better suited for her? She can try temporarily but if its really ingrained in her, she won't change.

I was in a similar situation as you but the other way around and I'm happier being able to be me around my current SO rather than try to act a certain way for my Korean ex.

sorry to say but keep in mind the earlier you end it, the easier it is and it sounds like you guys could be really good friends but maybe you guys aren't meant to be.

Some think this is now the “true” part of her coming out as she settles into the relationship. It seems on the surface like it could fit. After all, she herself is telling you it’s the “true” part of her, and those who are insecure will often feel like they have to act or position themselves initially in a relationship.

But give some thought to another set of concepts, around her use of aegyo behavior to manage internal fears. For instance, if she fears rejection, the closer she gets to you and the more comfortable the relationship, the more she will start to feel nervous or afraid that she could lose you. This often causes clinging, and in her, could be causing aegyo, as a nervous response to want to bind you to her. It would come out after the initial hormonal rush of the typical 6 month honeymoon period because the transition to stability ends the hormonal “wash” of that fear.

She wouldn’t necessarily understand the fear part as a separate emotion; she would just feel she “has to” do what she is doing because her feelings tell her to, which means she’d honestly tell you that it was just part of her. But it isn’t actually – the need to use it has been grafted on by something in her background growing up.

Another strong candidate is the fact that some young women (and men) will over-invest in their first few relationships, unconsciously losing “self”, becoming very dependent on their partner for their happiness, and all decisions. This can happen even if they are generally reasonably secure. They just start focusing so much on their SO that they lose perspective. I’ve seen many posts over the years from young women trying to figure out how that happened, and how to manage it. It’s entirely possible here that this is what she is doing, drawing out the cultural expression of that emotional dependency in the form of her aegyo behavior.

I just want to thank you for this post. I think out of everyone who has posted their two cents, this has resonated with me the most. I'm trying to be as understanding and delicate about the issue as a whole, and I don't think anybody else is considering these set of concepts you bring up.

I know I'm not crazy for believing that my girlfriend isn't 100% Aegyo to the core, and that there's more happening here. I will stay patient and try to boost her confidence as much as I can in the future.

I don't think it is too late to save yourself from full blown douche-dom. You need to either stop trying to change facets of her personality or correct your self-righteous and demeaning attitude. From the sound of your post, it seems that both options have an equally slim chance of happening.

Oh and by the way, it it really is too much of a problem, I can do you a favor. If by chance she ever happens to be on the east coast, PM me her number. I'd be happy to get to know her and her aegyo. :)

There are a lot of people here suggesting that aegyo us a part of a person's character, personally I do not agree. I lived in China for quite some time where they also have this problem. It's something that women put on in order to attract men. The voice they use is not their real voice and acting silly and immature is also put on as most women I knew there were highly educated.

As a woman I simply cannot tolerate this kind of behavior. I think it's really sad that some women believe they have to act like children in order to please a man. Your girlfriend chooses act this way, it's not her character, it's an act. What is more disgusting is the men who enjoy, or want their women to behave like this. Good on you for trying to ask your girlfriend to act like an adult.

I think some people are missing the point here, she wasn't like this from the start. So OP is not asking her to change something huge about her personality because he's suddenly changed his mind about it, she has decided to start emulating a child and so she has changed who she is to her boyfriend. Either she was like this to begin with and has been lying to him about who she is (unfair) or she has just developed this habit which changes who she is so (in my opinion) OP has every right to ask her to change/change back, for the sake of the relationship.