So instead of moving Bargs to the bench in favor of Ed or Amir, they're gonna plop JV's ass on the bench.

I don't get it, man. This season just can't get any worse... or can it? Yea, I'm sure it can too.

And obviously this is not a knock on Amir, but maybe we should try the defensive approach first by pairing JV with Ed or Amir, instead of keeping #7's usless ass out there.

Thu Dec 6th, 2012, 11:29 PM

Mack North

$^%&$##^&^$##!!!!

Thu Dec 6th, 2012, 11:54 PM

Sig

I'll believe it when I see it!

And if I do see it............................. well then what the fuck? Blame Bargnani?

Fri Dec 7th, 2012, 12:42 AM

JackfromNZ

Valanciunas has been abused lately, granted its been against tough matchups, but the game against the Jazz is going to be even tougher. I think its understandable and I still expect to see Valanciunas solid minutes.

Fri Dec 7th, 2012, 12:50 AM

Eric Akshinthala

Totally disagree and even if this does not come to pass I have to say that a LOT of Casey's decisions this season have been very questionable. Bad substitutions, removing in-form players at crucial times, over-reliance on Bargnani are some of them. It may or may not be possible but a coaching change will help IMO.

Fri Dec 7th, 2012, 12:56 AM

Pill

Quote:

JackfromNZ wrote:

Valanciunas has been abused lately, granted its been against tough matchups, but the game against the Jazz is going to be even tougher. I think its understandable and I still expect to see Valanciunas solid minutes.

I am sure that him getting "abused" has a lot to do with the defensive play of his front court partner. I watched this kid battle 2 players for a rebound the entire time he was on the court against the kings while AB floated around and did nothing. If he was paired with ED we wouldn't be having this conversation. Dont get me wrong. He has allowed himself to get backed down right under the basket more often than not but from watching the games he has been fairly solid and is progressing nicely.

If this is true then Casey has got to go.

Fri Dec 7th, 2012, 02:26 AM

JackfromNZ

Quote:

Pill wrote:

I am sure that him getting "abused" has a lot to do with the defensive play of his front court partner. I watched this kid battle 2 players for a rebound the entire time he was on the court against the kings while AB floated around and did nothing. If he was paired with ED we wouldn't be having this conversation. Dont get me wrong. He has allowed himself to get backed down right under the basket more often than not but from watching the games he has been fairly solid and is progressing nicely.

If this is true then Casey has got to go.

Don't get me wrong I know he is hustling his ass off every play. But he is just not strong enough in the upper body to deal with these big body centers and I personally don't think you can blame that on Bargs even though we would all like to.

Fri Dec 7th, 2012, 02:30 AM

enlightenment

he seemed tired the past two nights out, let him take it easy, no pressure!

on the other hand, I also don't think you can bench someone who you are attempting to sell to the lakers..

Fri Dec 7th, 2012, 02:41 AM

RandomGuy

Alright, I understand he does not deserve starting spot yet, although putting blame on him, when hes literally the only guy who defends the paint... What do you expect, how many times he got dunked because Bargnani lost his player? I'm starting to hate Caseys system, because he is the one who puts Andrea near 3pt line and commands him to play Brickani. He's is not DIRK, come on, all basketball world knows that and they are still repeating same crap. Frustrating.

Fri Dec 7th, 2012, 02:45 AM

ReubenJRD

With the way this season has been going, benching JV would likely add to losing... Without a good defensive anchor, able to establish himself and be a shot changer, teams are going to attack Bargnani, and Amir isn't the smartest player in the NBA...

Like, goodness gracious, is it that hard to have Andrea come off the bench, where he would most likely be more effective? He has to get it through his head (along with coaching staff), he is no longer the "best" player on this team. It's Kyle Lowry, or Demar Derozan... Debate-able question.

Fri Dec 7th, 2012, 02:46 AM

TRex

With everything that Casey said on that article about JV's defence, i want to know what he thinks of Andrea's defence. A guy that's been in the league for 7 years now.

Fri Dec 7th, 2012, 02:51 AM

RandomGuy

Quote:

TRex wrote:

With everything that Casey said on that article about JV's defence, i want to know what he thinks of Andrea's defence. A guy that's been in the league for 7 years now.

Let me answer. He thinks it is perfect.

Brainwash.

Fri Dec 7th, 2012, 02:54 AM

Vykis

Im not really mad with the benching if he gets regular minutes. But I would be happier if Bargina would get benched until he can get his shit together

Fri Dec 7th, 2012, 03:20 AM

torch19

I think the combination of Bargnani and Valanciunas against physical big bodies does not bode well for the Raptors. Utah is another team that pounds the boards so essentially, one had to go. We all know that it will never be Bargnani.

Fri Dec 7th, 2012, 05:33 AM

Pill

Quote:

JackfromNZ wrote:

Don't get me wrong I know he is hustling his ass off every play. But he is just not strong enough in the upper body to deal with these big body centers and I personally don't think you can blame that on Bargs even though we would all like to.

He was pretty good against vs Hibbert Round 2, sure he needs to get stronger but I dont think he is some defensive liability like he is being made out to be.

I think this will be good for him. Pair him up with ED off the bench. Get him the hell away from AB and I can guarantee he does a lot better.

Fri Dec 7th, 2012, 06:27 AM

Craiger

I don't think Jonas coming off the bench is a bad thing. (I was actually quite suprised he started the year and not Gray.) As long as he is getting good minutes is the important part. He'll still get an opportunity to learn, and playing against 'back ups' more often may lead to him being on the court for more total minutes if it reduces his foul rate.

That said, this entire idea - that the Raps need a change and we'll change everything other than the root problem - is a systemic issue with this team.

Quote:

the one part of his game that has been slower to come is the ability to anticipate when he needs to make the move from his own man and slide over and help on the attacking guard or forward coming down the lane.

I agree with this, but why is it so important that the teams gets so much better help defense from their C right now? Because the C is the only big man on the floor doing it (JV is and was constantly paired with Bargnani)

Quote:

He's got to get there quicker to help. Reading what's coming, anticipating is the word I want to use, because right now he's so in tune with being physical with his guy, making sure he's not letting him duck in that in that one split second he's got to be ready. Amir does a good job of it, Eddie does a good job, Aaron Gray does a good job, bounce and go.

"You have to go protect the paint and he's about a half second off of that, being where he has to be," Casey said. "It's experience and being there numerous times, he's getting better at it but he's still not there yet. Recognizing that situation and it's a split moment."

grumble grumble grumble

Quote:

The mistake would be to view this as a critique of Valanciunas and his progress.

The mistake is to view this as anything other than letting Bargnani off the hook yet again.

Fri Dec 7th, 2012, 07:18 AM

phez

ive been watching JV intensely since he hit the court and i feel like i can say with confidence his minutes will drop even more. casey has been benching him when he hits that 2 foul as the usual, but then casey just removes him from the game completely if he hits that 3rd or 4th foul.

the last game where he got to stay in until fouled out, he went 16 and 10 against charlotte's big men, with a block and two steals. the other game was boston where as you can imagine, the refs made quick work of toronto on the calls, and he was gone in under 20minutes.

i wont sit here and tell you that JV 'should be left in' against teams he obviously sucks against. but then again, i will tell you that being on the raptors, he has no vet to mentor him. raptors coaching has done jack shit to turn bargs, ed, amir into even average rebounding players. i have no hope of JV getting the experience he needs being on the raptors and especially with getting bench minutes.

how the raptors can ignore the fact he was a superstar in lithuania, and dont put him on a fasttrack to learn the ins-and-outs of nba style so he can adapt. its mind boggling.

Fri Dec 7th, 2012, 07:31 AM

Craiger

Quote:

phez wrote:

ive been watching JV intensely since he hit the court and i feel like i can say with confidence his minutes will drop even more. casey has been benching him when he hits that 2 foul as the usual, but then casey just removes him from the game completely if he hits that 3rd or 4th foul.

the last game where he got to stay in until fouled out, he went 16 and 10 against charlotte's big men, with a block and two steals. the other game was boston where as you can imagine, the refs made quick work of toronto on the calls, and he was gone in under 20minutes.

i wont sit here and tell you that JV 'should be left in' against teams he obviously sucks against. but then again, i will tell you that being on the raptors, he has no vet to mentor him. raptors coaching has done jack shit to turn bargs, ed, amir into even average rebounding players. i have no hope of JV getting the experience he needs being on the raptors and especially with getting bench minutes.

how the raptors can ignore the fact he was a superstar in lithuania, and dont put him on a fasttrack to learn the ins-and-outs of nba style so he can adapt. its mind boggling.

I know this is a minor part of your post but I wanted to point out Ed Davis is one of the best rebounders in the league (22% rebound rate) and Amir Johnson (14.5%) rebounds at a slightly greater than average rate.

Fri Dec 7th, 2012, 07:46 AM

Nilanka

What's funny is that Casey actually believes this season is still salvageable. Why else would he make this move?

Fri Dec 7th, 2012, 07:50 AM

ebrian

JV should never have been starting in the first place. How often do you see rookies earn the starting role without dominating performances? It was a mistake to start him and now they've corrected the mistake. I expect him to learn from the reserve role and earn his way back into the starting lineup.