Posted
by
ScuttleMonkeyon Monday January 14, 2008 @02:04PM
from the all-your-veggies-are-belong-to-us dept.

palegray.net writes Robots.net covers an article about robotic exoskeletons for Japanese farmers. These exoskeletons would provide increased strength and support for manual labor intensive tasks. More information can also be found at robots-dreams.com. 'The robotic suit relies on ultrasonic motors along with various sensors and wireless networking gear. [...] The mass-produced version of the suit is expected to weigh in at 8 kilograms and cost about 200,000 yen.'"

Check out this crazy concept: Type "Ultrasonic motor" into this new fangled search site called Google. It pointed me to this free, (seriously: it's free!) encyclopedia called Wikipedia. The link talked all about ultrasonic motors http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultrasonic_motor [wikipedia.org]. Seems they are commonly used in cameras. I bet other links would give even more information.

Well, it's not really a robotic suit, it's a robotic "assist" suit. It doesn't do anything by itself, it's just a few servos with some quality sensors attached and calibtrated to the wearers movement. It helps prevent fatigue by helping the farmer balance, stand and squat, and remain bent over for long periods of time.

the software behind it isn't anything radical, and since then motors don't apply force, just resistance, most of the work is done with very little power. (power is needed to turn on and off the motor, but not to actually move limbs, so it;s kind of like assisted breaking, or power steering, but for the body.)

It's a lot more simple than people think to make it out. Many of the componenets are slight upgrades to common hobby gear... the sensors are where the real magic is, allowing the suit to move fluidly with the wearer and sense when to support and when to assist. Other than that, it's not more than a fancy mechanical brace. $2000 USD is completely beievable.

If we run short of migrant workers as a side effect of immigration reform, imagine flocks / herds of robotic weeders / pickers roaming the fields. Heck, you could even have pest eating robots [newscientist.com].

Actually, the grandparent is correct in using the word training.
If you have a self learning algorithm, you program it into a computer. After that is done you train it for a specific task by feeding it data.

Programming is also often used when talking about living organisms. Specifically when dealing with brainwashing and conditioned responses. The main difference in meaning seems to be that training is used when the result is more fluid, while programming is more strict and focused. When they can be i

8kg is ridulously light for an exoskeleton that can increase the strength of its wearer significantly. The power source alone would have to be much heavier (its designed to work outdoors, so no wired power). For comparison, the Apollo space suits weighed about 80kg.

The Apollo spacesuits were designed over forty years ago for a completely different purpose. Unless something's terribly different about Japanese farming methods, I don't think that they need to carry around an air supply with them nor do they need to be protected from the vacuum of space.

8kg is ridulously light for an exoskeleton that can increase the strength of its wearer significantly. The power source alone would have to be much heavier (its designed to work outdoors, so no wired power). For comparison, the Apollo space suits weighed about 80kg.

If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?

There's a few things to consdier. For starters, the article is a form of product PR so there's probably some details left out here.My guess is that they're estimating based on a carbon-composite frame (cheap and light), soon-to-be-developed lightweight motors and no batteries. Manufacturers do this crap all the time, especially in the auto industry. It seems that MPG estimates always move after those darn EPA regulations are taken into consideration.

I'm not sure if its that common, and it doesn't bode well for such an adventurous technology. Remember the Ford Nucleon - ford designed a nuclear powered car based on certain promising developments in lightweight shielding materials and miniaturised reactors that never actually materialised. I can see how you might be able to get away with it when you are tweaking a well understood design (a standard, petrol driven car) but surely for something completely new you've got to be a bit more honest about the spe

While this suit is totally cool, I think bigger, mass-production robots like this rice-planting robot [web-japan.org] are far more practical. The robot suit is indeed a technological breakthrough, but I think robots that can help more than one person at a time are far more valuable. Or, check out these weed-killers [primidi.com].

Maybe it's just me, but most robots I've seen aren't that strong. Most can be outdone pretty easily by a human the is in good shape. There are some strong robots, but they are extremely large, and not the kind that could be worked into a suit that would be worn by a human. Also, what advantage does this offer over typical farm machinery that isn't in a human exoskeleton form factor?

So, how much energy does a cyber farm hand embody in its mining, construction, operation and maintenance, as opposed to a human and how many calories of food can it generate?

Given the average farm hand needs 2000 calories to maintain homeostasis and at least that much for accoutrement (clothing, etc.), the machine has to run on less than 4000 calories a day of energy, including its energy investment as an object.

I'm not saying one way or the other, but the analysis needs to be made before we can welcome

So, how much energy does a cyber farm hand embody in its mining, construction, operation and maintenance, as opposed to a human and how many calories of food can it generate?

Well, this can't be too hard. Rather than calories, let's use something that we already do universal conversions between (time, calories, effort, etc.). We'll call it money. Apparently, $2000 is enough to cover the cost of extracting, refining, and forming the exoskeleton, setting up the framework for powering it, building the sensors that help control it, and designing the software to help control it. This assumes that number isn't subsidised one way or another. (In other words, no one really needs to

Example: let's say you have a car that gets 30 mpg. You are out in the desert and have 1 gallon of gas. The next gas station is 100 miles away. All The Money In The World isn't going to buy you a gallon of gas when you run out. You're going to have to push the car. If you push it 3 miles a day, you might get there in a month. So, now you know the Energy Value of one gallon of gas: one month of hard labour pushing a car 100 miles.

This is a sure sign things are getting bad in Japan. Back in the day farmers would just have a bunch of children and they'd help out on the farm. So now instead of rutting their wives and getting some help the old fashioned way Farmers have to turn to cyborg technology.

It's all well and good for the current generation but who'll tend the fields when the Cyborg's dead and buried?

This is just what we need. A cheap exo-skeleton that anyone can buy and wear all the time. Once it becomes popular people will think they are the six million dollar man, lifting things over their heads.

Of course over the next couple of hundred years we will evolve into nothing more than a brain and some nerve endings that will activate the exo-skeleton's. Wonder when they will start making them look like Daleks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalek [wikipedia.org]

Good point. With handicap ramps now the norm in building construction, they'll be quite practical too. Wanted: apartment in multi-story building with no elevator. Close proximity to gun store preferred.

Everyone knows Daleks have this ridiculous useless sink plunger on the front. Dalek rayguns only point forward so you're safe if you keep behind them because they can't turn fast. And above all, Daleks can't climb the stairs.

I'm not an expert in the region and growing of asian produce, however, when I was in Japan visiting a friend I was amazed at how low tech the farming is there something ca 1920 US. They were planting rice by hand. We were biking through rural areas and I noticed a lot of older people that were bent over at a near 90% angle on the side walks. I asked my friend what was wrong with them, and he said they were farmers who's backs have become deformed from bending over all the time.

The reason for this stupidity according to my friend: Japan (as admittedly a lot of countries do) has protectionist policies in place forcing rice and other crops to have to be produced in Japan. The cost of japanese rice versus the average is 7 times, but they have to produce it. Apparently it is cheaper to ruin the backs of people in a first world country then to risk not having control of your food supply - because you buy it from the close third world countries - in the advent of a war. Admittedly if I was like Japan and had crazies for neighbours (North Korea/China, government not the people) whom I recently pissed off by invading I might be worried about war preparedness as well.

Is where is it going to be ABLE to work at? According to my guesstimates, the weight per square inch that will be applied with even 50% of the nominal working load would be roughly triple the amount a 4 wheel cart. We're talking two footpads, roughly 250% larger than the human foot. You know that we exert a lot of pounds/square inch on our feet so that is why they are so articulate. The feet on this monster would probably be semi flexible pads that would not be as flexible, therefore be rougher than hell on

If you were going to go this far for manual labor, why not take it a step further and motion capture it for use with an AI driven control system later on. As long as the system knows the proper motions and when/where to apply them, the exoskeleton should be able to do the work itself as a playable macro.

There are less young people going into farming these days. These suits will be good for aging farmers as well as maybe making it less backbreaking or more interesting to young people I'd think too.Of course the real robotic farmer that can plant rice by himself? I dunno, the Emperor does that himself you know, can the robot really plant delicious rice? Rice has a spiritual place in Japanese religion too.

But my guess is this would be an excellent way to really test robots in the field especially when you ar

Also, at $1800 per, your not going to see people investing in these when they can just hire some cheap child labor.

What country do you think Japan is in?

This is not China or India. They do not have "cheap child labour". This is the country with the highest per-capita wages in the world. This is where labour is at its most expensive. This is also the country where children go to school 10 hours a day, 6 or 7 days a week, from the age when they can hold a pencil until they go to university. There's no child labour at all, let alone cheap.

Japan GDP per capita is $33000 (2006 est.)Japan's GINI index is 38.1.GINI is a measure of inequality of income distribution or inequality of wealth distribution. The lower, the more equally GDP is distributed.

In Japan 127,433,494 people are packed in 374,744 sq km. Compare that to the US, in which 301,139,947 people are spread over 9,161,923 sq km.Housing in Japan costs 3-5 times more than it costs in US. Japanese compensate by living in tiny apartments.

A $2000 one-time capital investment is not very much. It wouldn't take long even for 'cheap' labor to eat up that much in wages. Also I bet that Japan is like the USA and there are regulations, paperwork, insurance, and various other hidden costs when it comes to hiring workers. 'Cheap' labor is never cheap in 1st world countries unless you cheat and pay undocumented workers under the table. Also, FYI, the Japanese version of the IRS is famous for being

Japanese minimum wage is ¥4,712-5,465 per day. If you are able to pay the cheapest wage then the exoskeleton costs the same amount as a labourer for 42 days. At the most expensive (minimum) rate it works out as 37 days. Either way, you get under two months of human for the cost of the suit. If the suit makes one person 20% more efficient, it will pay for itself in under a year.

Usually on a farm you don't have to worry about people shooting at you

You have never been to the US, or watched any movies, I reckon? [insert random quote here, e.g. "I said, step away from my LAWN, you assclown incarnation of a Dr. Octopus, yes you!", "I'm not gonna say this twice, Sonny, I'm gonna ask you to leave. NOW! And take your motherf*nkin exoskeleton with you, now will ya?"]

As I am a cyborg [slashdot.org] I think I can answer for you. No tentacles (although here in in Springfiels where the cartoons all live, who knows?). From my perspective the schoolgirls are safe (for now) but the middle aged women, well... since most of us cyborgs are geezers, your mom needs to, er, well, say HI to her for me would you?

In America they grow mostly maize and wheat, which can be easily automated by dragging heavy machinery across the top of the soil. In Japan they grow mostly fruit and vegetables, which have to be carefully picked from the plants. Tractors are just not that useful to them, which is why they don't really use them. Harvesting is mostly done by hand because the land of genius automation has not been able to find a way to automate it - until now (maybe).

Here's a hint at the problems they have to deal with: the Japanese radish (one of their staple vegetables) is a foot long and about three inches wide. It takes a lot of careful pulling to get something that size out of the ground without damaging it.

Tell that to the Japanese. They have this ultranerd complex that makes them want robots where robots aren't needed. The Sirius Cybernetics Corporation [wikipedia.org] is surely a Japanese company. "the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation defines a robot as 'your plastic pal who's fun to be with'."

Try picking strawberries with a tractor. There's a lot of hand-picked produce out there still, and that's quite literally back breaking labor. Some sort of mechanical support could make farming a whole lot more humane. Of course in our economy, we have illegal immigrants to pick our fruit and nobody cares about their knees anyway.

Good point. The popular press have taken terms such as "cyborg" and "robot", and applied them to anything that has some form of machinery operated by a human via some form of computer. If a human is required to operate it in real-time, either directly or via some form of remote control system, and the link between man and machine isn't permanent, then it's a waldo, not a cyborg or robot.