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That has to be the first time anyone used "being a ball hog" as a reason for high assist totals.

I actually agree with his sentiment a little bit... Marbury's defensive effort was atrocious, particularly noticeable during his time with the Knicks.... and on offense, I feel like he would run pick-and-rolls until he got to 8 APG and then totally abandoned any sort of offensive sets so he could go one-on-one. I don't agree that the high assist totals made him a ball hog, but I do feel like he had selfish reasons as to why he wanted to get a certain assist average for the season. Also notable, on those Knicks teams, their winning percentage didn't ever really increase when he had double-digit assist totals because he didn't really do them in the flow of the offense.

I don't get the same feeling from Jennings (if that is what was being implied) though. Or in Rondo's case, as a whole.

Jennings will never be a good defender (too small and not physical enough) but it isn't for lack of effort. He's not a perfect player by any means, but he's certainly a gifted passer when he's engaged.

His shots are down and his assists are up. Both are good signs going forward.

Last edited by Kstat; 12-05-2013 at 06:26 PM.

It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

Jennings will never be a good defender (too small and not physical enough) but it isn't for lack of effort. He's not a perfect player by any means, but he's certainly a gifted passer when he's engaged.

He is so bad near the rim I swear dude is afraid of getting hit. I disagree about his effort it is bad on defense. he is rarely engaged on that end. his passing is better this year but like shags said a while back he has a 20 and 13 game and the impact was not near 20 and 13. He puts up empty stats a lot. his defense I hate. I sm huge on containing and not gambling he plays the opposite. he gambles and takes himself out of a lot of plays.

He does, but he also makes a lot of plays. His strip of lebron to clinch the Miami game was spectacular.

That's the type of defense Cheeks runs, for better or worse. It's a hyper-aggressive, ball hawking defense. They lead the nba in steals and are near the bottom in FG% defense. They get more extra possessions than any other nba team, which offsets their ineffeciency.

I don't like it, you don't like it, but it's clear to me that's how this group needs to play to win games. They aren't good enough to beat teams in a chess match, but they will win a track meet 9 times out of 10. Jennings has to make some gambles to force tempo.

Last edited by Kstat; 12-05-2013 at 06:46 PM.

It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

I guess I'd only call it a ball hog if it is at the expense of other players. If it is within the flow of the offense, then "ball dominant" should be sufficient. I see the term "hog" as extremely negative, and just having the ball on lots of possessions isn't sufficient to be a negative thing - especially if the offense isn't designed to get the ball out of that player's hands.

Isn't that just a "shoot first" point guard? Not my cup of tea, but far from "ball hog".

I think what the celtics fan meant was he would hold onto the ball to the detriment of the team then force a bad shot by the team because he couldnt get his.

Yeah, some guards (see Rodney stuckey) just don't have good vision and pound the crap out of the ball until either an obvious advantage presents itself or they're forced to take action due to the shot clock.

Travis Best never struck me as a ballhog. Just an extremely limited passer.

It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

The Bulls and the Pistons so far are the "other" teams in the East that I'd rather not play in the playoffs. I get the feeling that if Detroit gels, either Chicago or Detroit will be the 3rd seed (over the Atlantic division winner), and the other would be 5th. Probably pretty inevitable that the Pacers will see one of those two teams in the playoffs (2nd round).

Best hope would be being the #1 seed, and having Atlantic Winner or Atlanta in 2nd round.

"It's just unfortunate that we've been penalized so much this year and nothing has happened to the Pistons, the Palace or the city of Detroit," he said. "It's almost like it's always our fault. The league knows it. They should be ashamed of themselves to let the security be as lax as it is around here."

Yeah the weather was pretty rough and foggy here in AZ on Wednesday, and early today, so guessing that all moved to San Antonio area.

"It's just unfortunate that we've been penalized so much this year and nothing has happened to the Pistons, the Palace or the city of Detroit," he said. "It's almost like it's always our fault. The league knows it. They should be ashamed of themselves to let the security be as lax as it is around here."

The Bulls and the Pistons so far are the "other" teams in the East that I'd rather not play in the playoffs. I get the feeling that if Detroit gels, either Chicago or Detroit will be the 3rd seed (over the Atlantic division winner), and the other would be 5th. Probably pretty inevitable that the Pacers will see one of those two teams in the playoffs (2nd round).

Best hope would be being the #1 seed, and having Atlantic Winner or Atlanta in 2nd round.

I just don't get this fear of the Pistons. I mean maybe it's just in the context of the atrocious Leastern Conference, but they don't worry me in a playoff series at all. Is it the size people are concerned about? I mean they have talented players but their defense isn't very good with their best players on the court, they (like every other team in the league) would have an extremely difficult time scoring on us, they are young and have no playoff experience outside of Josh Smith, and Mo Cheeks is a ****** coach.

The pistons defense is either very bad or very good. They're poor at contesting perimiter shots, but they are the best at causing turnovers, and they're getting better.

I don't think Indiana should fear anyone outside of Miami (certainly not a team below .500) but the pistons field a team that's both bigger and faster than anyone, which presents a unique challenge.

There's also the drummond factor, which is easily the biggest wild card of any of the east's non-contenders. He's likely going to be a better player in 5 months than he is now, and he's playing at an all star level already.

Last edited by Kstat; 12-05-2013 at 07:45 PM.

It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

The pistons defense is either very bad or very good. They're poor at contesting shots, but they are the best at causing turnovers, and they're getting better.

I don't think Indiana should fear anyone outside of Miami (certainly not a team below .500) but the pistons field a team that's both bigger and faster than anyone, which presents a unique challenge.

No, the Pacers shouldn't fear anyone. I'm just talking about mainly myself personally, and just what other teams would make for a longer series than I'd like. I think Detroit and Chicago will be a 5 or 6 game series, where most every other team in the East besides Miami, should be able to crush in 4 maybe 5 games if they get bored, lol.

The Pistons have the bigs that can stifle Indiana in a playoff setting for playing games in a row. Drummond and Monroe are a bit of a pain, Josh Smith is sort of the Lance Stephenson of their team, if he plays well, they can compete with good teams, if not they're really going to struggle, just atm Smith has about a 50/50 split in bad vs good. Jennings I got no fear of, he's the part of their team I'm glad they have, just never liked his game on either end of the floor.

I think Detroit at the end of the season will either be right at or slightly over .500, same with the Bulls and Hawks, everyone else will most likely be 40 wins or less.

"It's just unfortunate that we've been penalized so much this year and nothing has happened to the Pistons, the Palace or the city of Detroit," he said. "It's almost like it's always our fault. The league knows it. They should be ashamed of themselves to let the security be as lax as it is around here."

If the pistons are still hovering around .500 in 5 months, I'll be very unhappy with the season as a whole. They are not a good team right now, but that was anticipated with all the new parts and a new scheme. I expect progress though the course of the season.

Sweeping this road trip in Chicago Saturday and beating Miami again on Sunday would convince me that they've turned the corner. Anything less and I'm still in wait and see mode.

Last edited by Kstat; 12-05-2013 at 07:52 PM.

It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

caught the end of the pistons heat game. Jennings is not a pg I would want on my team. he is more of a sg in a mandatory pg role. if not for a bs long distance 3 pistons prob would have choked that game away like Jennings did wth the ball several times in the 4th.

This game is pure gold...Knicks/Nets, both teams suck, and Chuck is doing commentary lol.

"It's just unfortunate that we've been penalized so much this year and nothing has happened to the Pistons, the Palace or the city of Detroit," he said. "It's almost like it's always our fault. The league knows it. They should be ashamed of themselves to let the security be as lax as it is around here."

Feel bad for criticizing Monta over the years, especially now that he and Jennings are on different teams. That dude is showing what he can do with a good coach and some good ol' Dirk. What a difference.

Hope the Pacers meet the Pistons in the playoffs. Their frontcourt is talented but doesn't seem to mesh well. Absolutely no answer for PG. Glorious sweep.