Oh man(moth), that aside with Raph at the caves really got me hyped. Canít wait for him to go rogue down the line, or wolverine rather.

Mammoth seeing Raphael in himself how will that play put down the line?

Mammorh was no help, but not a threat like most of the Pantheon. Yet Leonardo seems to have picked up something.

Rst King ate a rat? He has been watching Norman Osborne for too long. Yes, gross and shows he is off his rocker. It's just in most iteraruins despite being a human Rat King considers himself a rat so it does not feel right for that move.

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Michelangelo: This looks like a job for the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles!
Raphael: Sheesh, Mikey this ain't a cartoon!

I dunno, I like Lupo and think the story could do with the Mafia as a bigger presence in the underworld. Maybe not up to par with the Foot, but just enough to provide a credible street-level threat when necessary. And his summary of recent events was hilarious, it really drove home how ingrained the weirdness has become and how ordinary humans (there's few stock bad guys as ordinary as the Italian Mafia) view the mutants, aliens and freaks in their midst. That sort of perspective is only likely to get ramped up now that Mayor Stockman is about to become a thing.

Is this setting up a rebellion from Splinter? I mean Lupo serms to think its in the underworld's best interest to even if he was put in his place. There is also Jenika apparently crushing on Casey Jones and that could have her turn on Splinter as well.

Mousers vs The Rat King! I wish the 1987 cartoon did something like this. It has been practically screaming to be done for decades now.

So Hun is an ally or what? Arnold Sr. has been an afterthought ever since #54.

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Michelangelo: This looks like a job for the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles!
Raphael: Sheesh, Mikey this ain't a cartoon!

Is this setting up a rebellion from Splinter? I mean Lupo serms to think its in the underworld's best interest to even if he was put in his place. There is also Jenika apparently crushing on Casey Jones and that could have her turn on Splinter as well.

Mousers vs The Rat King! I wish the 1987 cartoon did something like this. It has been practically screaming to be done for decades now.

So Hun is an ally or what? Arnold Sr. has been an afterthought ever since #54.

Probably setting up a more City at War-esque arc after Splinter bites it or is overthrown. Jennika already turned on him once, technically... Add a love interest into the equation and she'll do it again without a second thought.

The Mousers will probably intervene at a crucial point in the fight next issue.

Hun is muscle for the Purple Dragons while he works at rebuilding the bond with his son. Pretty much his only purpose for existing right now, which is why I see a heroic sacrifice in his future.

The Foot Clan (or Purple Dragons) generally dominate over every other gang that shows up in the series. As I said it happened to The Savate, The Ghost Boys, the clan in the Karai mini, The Street Phantoms, Lupo and his gang, the New Jersey gang from the previous issue, etc. It's generally just to show us over and over that the Foot Clan/Purple Dragons will consistently wipe out any other gang that shows up in the series. They're basically all fodder, and that's why it feels like the same thing over and over.

Unless Bishop/EPF decide to directly attack Splinter/The Foot, there really is nobody to challenge them. I guess we could see a big change when Karai finally gets back to New York (which is taking a long time, lol), but until then not much will change.

And besides that Null's stuff seems like it takes place in an entirely separate bubble, with the Mutanimals just being allies of the Turtles and wanting to stop her.

Rat King ate a rat? He has been watching Norman Osborne for too long. Yes, gross and shows he is off his rocker. It's just in most iterations despite being a human Rat King considers himself a rat so it does not feel right for that move.

IDW's Rat King is a bit of a mystery, to this day I have no idea what he's trying to accomplish.

We know Kitsune has a clear objective to ressurrect Shredder as her father the Dragon Lord, but Rat King just seems to cause chaos and mayhem without any real motive. Although I guess that's the point of him as that's his role in the Patheon, just like Toad Baron just likes making extravagant parties with food and have a ball.

IDW's Rat King is a bit of a mystery, to this day I have no idea what he's trying to accomplish.

We know Kitsune has a clear objective to ressurrect Shredder as her father the Dragon Lord, but Rat King just seems to cause chaos and mayhem without any real motive. Although I guess that's the point of him as that's his role in the Patheon, just like Toad Baron just likes making extravagant parties with food and have a ball.

What is The Joker trying to accomplish? Anarchy. Same with The Rat King. It is how they get their kicks. The more chaos, the more anarchy which means the more fun.

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Michelangelo: This looks like a job for the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles!
Raphael: Sheesh, Mikey this ain't a cartoon!

I was not initially crazy about the visual design for the IDW Rat King (I miss the bandages and the red hair!), but I have really been enjoying him as a character. I agree that "the point" of him is that he creates chaos and anarchy. I also have liked the development the Pantheon has received over the past few issues. The existence of the gateways to the other members (present at least with Toad Baron and Manmoth) seems to indicate that each has a designated area/lair? If so, where are the gateways for Kitsune and Rat King?

The Foot Clan (or Purple Dragons) generally dominate over every other gang that shows up in the series. As I said it happened to The Savate, The Ghost Boys, the clan in the Karai mini, The Street Phantoms, Lupo and his gang, the New Jersey gang from the previous issue, etc. It's generally just to show us over and over that the Foot Clan/Purple Dragons will consistently wipe out any other gang that shows up in the series. They're basically all fodder, and that's why it feels like the same thing over and over.

It's a shame really, cause I always liked their being a multitude of Street Gangs all fighting for control. I even liked that Mob Boss Antonio that was introduced during the "City Fall" arc. It looked like he was gonna be a big part (considering his seat at the main table with Shredder, Karai, Kitsune and Hun in the Shredder Micro... heck even Darius was proving to be interesting, alas they choose to either ignore or kill them off.

"Chaos for the sake of chaos" isn't really a villain motivation I particularly like, personally. It just seems like it was made by a middle school edgelord creating their first OC.

(Zaheer from Legend of Korra is an exception, though.)

This is sort of the problem with Ch'rell in the 2003 series, he's a very flat and static character who strives to conquer for conquest's sake. Other than the accumulation of wealth he seemingly isn't really driven by anything.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

I can hear it now: "I'm sorry little April, I told you that if you didn't take good care of them I'd be taking them away. Now they are going to the lab to be abused for experimentation" (You could almost rewrite this as April caused the fire to get back at her father over it...)

Oh god, do I agree. I've called him a Villain Sue in the past. But I also think Ch'rell's problems are worsened when compared to the other Utroms who are supposedly beacons of Peace and Goodness.

I've had lots of ideas on what could have made him a better character. The turtles never really learn Ch'rell's side of his turmoil with the Utroms, besides Karai saying that "they have chased him his entire life". And I go back for the fourth or fifth time going back to this thing describing what could have been a better outcome for his character.

The thing about 2003 TMNT is that it absolutely insists on having black and white moralities with no gray area even in the face of tragic backstories (Baxter Stockman's for instance).

Which is why I'm looking forward to Ch'rell in IDW. Because unlike his original counterpart, he's set up off the bat as being capable of love in a way that the other wasn't. He's a war hero to his people rather than a criminal; that's probably how he got a scar taking up a quarter of his face. He adores his leader to the point of complete distress if something were to happen. His sister loves him in a way that forced her to make the painful decision between keeping him in stasis indefinitely or sending him to prison should he be released (there's also probably the ill preparation to explain the Krang situation, but then Kleve just slapped it on him without so much as giving him a chance to take a breath first coming out of stasis); hopefully he'll love her more than he'll hate her decisions on his behalf. Besides, that would be a nice parallel with the turtles going to four separate corners by the end of the next story arch.

He's only spoken two lines so far, and he's already leagues more interesting than 2003 Ch'rell, who just screamed and pontificated about how "He's The Best" and "I Will Rule The World, Worms!"

I sometimes think about how things would have changed if, say, Ch'rell loved Karai as much as Splinter loved the turtles? What kind of spot would that put Leonardo in with all his desperation to turn Karai to their side?

I have a lot of feelings about how 2003 Ch'rell could have been better...

I disagree; I thought Ch'rell had enough backstory. He was imprisoned by his own people, and he blamed them for his being marooned on a technologically backwards planet. He didn't care about the Turtles, he didn't care about the Foot, all he ever wanted was to get back to the stars and punish his own species for locking him up.

Isn't that enough? Not every villain needs to have the pathos or tragic backstory of a Baxter Stockman.

Heath Ledger's Joker was arguably one of the most successful villains in a comic book movie, and he didn't have a single shred of legitimate backstory or consistent motivation. If done well, it can work.