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There are others who changed the way the game is played at their position too.

Darrell Green and Deion were one of the first CBs who didn't play LCB or RCB, instead they lined up on an opponent's best WR.

Plenty of great DTs who changed the way OCs designed interior blocking schemes.

But whenever you see a big butt OT lined up in a two point stance selling out on a pass play, you can thank LT. No tackle in a three point stance could ever block him on passing downs. People talk about LT's sack numbers, but what they fail to mention is during the first 5-6 years of his career, whenever he rushed the QB, he always ended up in the backfield, sack or not. His pressure numbers on pass downs must be close to .850.

This list could be 50 deep easily. Where's Bruce Smith??

And Jack Tatum was a true psychotic at the safety position, the man who inspired the play of Ronnie Lott.

Start at 1960, and for each decade pick your top 10. That should give you roughly 30 to 40 of the best to ever play on the defensive side of the ball.

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As someone who has only been following the sport for 5 years it is kind of fun to learn about the past, obviously I have made an effort to watch what I can, but in Australia that means internet only for getting games from the past so it is limited at best.

I wonder if in 20 years time the bias placed on past players will be as strong given that it is now very easy to obtain copies of every game online, will that clear and accessible footage lead to those players being downgraded as the game naturally gets bigger, faster and stronger?

I have followed basketball for basically 20 years now(17-18 to be precise) and I haven't noticed the same "love" for the 90's guys as I do for the 80s players. Guys like Stockton, Payton and Mark Price amongst others have basically been thrown under the bus since their retirement, it becomes particularly evident when you hear people talk about Steve Nash, who isn't half the player any of those 3 were but if you asked 10 average fan now he would be more highly regarded. Guys like Barkley, Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing and Malone amongst others don't seem to get the love that lesser players are now and from the 80s did, they are almost a forgotten generation of players and that is just the stars, never mind the lesser players.

As for my take... the most "dominating" players that I have seen in my 5 years would be the following guys, trying to break it down a bit by position but mostly just going with the guys who have stood out...

DE - Jared Allen - Has been consistently dominant the last few years, both on a poor line and a great line.
DT - Kevin Williams - Has been the best DT in a 4-3 that I have seen in my time watching. Shaun Rogers and Tommie Harris have both had comparable seasons or individual games but Williams just stands out.
LB - Ray Lewis - Even at the end of his career, still dominant, still a star.
LB - Patrick Willis - Is every bit the defensive player that AD is offensive player. Willis is a genuine superstar in my book and a freak to boot.
OLB - Shawne Merriman - Was just so dominant a couple of years ago, genuinely created fear in offenses, I never get that same "vibe" off of Ware though he is every bit as good statistically.

CB - Bailey/Nmandi - On that same shutdown level.
CB - Antoine Winfield - Honourable mention for the way he plays the run, is not close to elite as a coverage man, but his run skills are as dominant as I have seen in a corner.

S - Sean Taylor - Was scary for the year a bit before he was killed. Such a pity as he was fun as hell to watch.
S - Polamalu/Reed - How do you separate these two? Reed is a game changer against the pass on another level, Polamalu more of an all around game changer but on the same level of impact.

I'm sure I'm forgetting someone, but those are the guys who stand out to me and came to mind when seeing the thread title.

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How could we forget Randy White? Once they moved him to the DL he was All World.

I loved Youngblood playing with the broken leg, they'd be out a year if that happened nowadays.

I love me some Youngblood, but playing through his injury wasn't some superhuman feat. He had a broken fibula, which is the non-weight bearing bone in the leg. I remember Khalif Barnes playing through a similar injury for Jacksonville early in his career.

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I just loved hearing announcers claim Ray Lewis as "the best defender ever." Thats the biggest load of **** I've ever heard.

Why? Do you truly believe that someone couldn't make a valid argument for that? I understand completely why you think he isn't the best but don't act like he doesn't deserve a mention. Ray Lewis>you

Originally posted by SunTzu_22

Just let it go RWO.
We as Ravens fans are clearly scum of the earth, and should just be happy that these great people, who cheer for nothing than the finest, morally impeccable players, playing on the finest, most morally impeccable teams, will grace us with their presence, and words of wisdom.

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you know, way back in the 1950s, a few dudes invented this magical device called a "video recorder" that allows one to "tape" events and then "replay" them. one can even show these "replays" to people who weren't there originally.

but i'll assume that you knew all of that and just didn't want to put any actual thought into your post.

And its any different today?

I mean, people watched football in the exact same way now as they did 30 years ago. On the TV. With Beer.

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For a good time call (303) 499-7111.whitspacsig by steel man
United: "I actually went to the college I root for"

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I sort of understand what he was saying...it's hard to get the full picture with just stats and highlight reels. When you watch a game live you get the subtleties of the player, his motor from play to play, how he does the little things. Also you get how he compares with all the other players from the era. We can only guess how Dick Butkus or Joe Greene would stack up against O-lineman from today. Even though it's the same game, it's hard to compare players from era to era.

sig by BoneKrusher

PACKERS BADGERS BREWERS BUCKS

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I believe that players of old could not handle hits from these guys today. I know I am going to get **** for this but humans period are more evolved and athletes today are ridiculously strong. I am not saying players now could play back then I am just saying they are healthier and better trained.

Originally posted by SunTzu_22

Just let it go RWO.
We as Ravens fans are clearly scum of the earth, and should just be happy that these great people, who cheer for nothing than the finest, morally impeccable players, playing on the finest, most morally impeccable teams, will grace us with their presence, and words of wisdom.

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right, but i'm not sure what that has to do with anything. i responded to a guy who said "no one in their teens or twenties has ever seen any of these guys play", which is patently untrue (hell, dick butkus has a highlight reel on youtube).

we watch the people the exact same way. and if you pay attention, have been watching the same people in highlight reels for the past 30 years.

Most people haven't watched most downs of half the people they praise, just highlight reels. And we have fantastic highlight reels everyone worthwhile from the glorious NFL Films archives, which they so graciously put on tv during the offseason.

BUT.

The difference is, you have 100 people on NFL who can't be wrong, telling you who the best player is, and then there's congruency, and no questioning who's the greatest, even though, there should ALWAYS be question.

That said. Dick Butkus was/is a scary ************.

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For a good time call (303) 499-7111.whitspacsig by steel man
United: "I actually went to the college I root for"

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I believe that players of old could not handle hits from these guys today. I know I am going to get **** for this but humans period are more evolved and athletes today are ridiculously strong. I am not saying players now could play back then I am just saying they are healthier and better trained.

LOL, yea, the harsh environment over the last 50 years has made our society about survival of the fittest, and we were needed to spawn super athletes.

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I think evolved is the wrong word, refined is a better word i think. The workout techniques and science behind self improvement today is vastly superior to what it was 40-50 years ago...even 20 years ago. I would bet there were NFL players in the 50's and 60's that never touched a weight in their lives.

sig by BoneKrusher

PACKERS BADGERS BREWERS BUCKS

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none of this has anything to do with why i object to his statement. i wouldn't disagree that some people are spoonfed their opinions by whichever moron ESPN/NFLN currently has talking on screen (i mean, if jaws says Player X was the best ever, well, he must be right... right?). but it's utterly asinine to suggest that no one has ever seen players from the 70's and 80's play. in fact, it borders on the most ridiculously illogical, stupid thing i've ever heard on this board. it's a demonstrable untruth.

sure, and i'll usually pick some random player just to start that argument. unfortunately, something else annoyed me first.

It's a concurrent opinion.

And yes, it is completely asinine to think that no one has ever seen players from the 80's and 70's.

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For a good time call (303) 499-7111.whitspacsig by steel man
United: "I actually went to the college I root for"

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I can only speak for myself, but I have VHS tapes of old games from the 60s, 70s, and 80s. Granted, I haven't watched every game obviously, but I have a decent amount of tape on these guys.

Everyone wants to point out how much the game has changed, I like to point out how much of the game has stayed the same. A lot of fans these days don't understand that. The game isn't nearly as different as they think, and the complexity isn't that much different either.

In fact, you can make an argument that it was more complex then. Especially when linemen were allowed to move around and shift. Formations on offense would get tricky.

Plus factor in the fact that there was no audio equipment back then, and it makes you appreciate what these guys did even more. We credit Peyton for running the no huddle.

Well, Johnny U called the plays his entire career, so whats the difference?

Landry's motion offense was just as complicated as today's offenses. The wildcat has been around since damn near the 40s.

Bellichick's "schemes" have been used since the 80s Giants. His schemes haven't changed that much at all.

I think the main difference between yesteryear and today's game is

1. Run and pass formations have changed a little bit
2. The NFL is going away from complete players and is steering towards situational players.

Its become more of a matchup league. And because of that, I don't think today's players, or future players will ever receive as much credit as the complete players of back then. We're gearing more and more towards mixing and matching parts instead of having the same 11 play every snap. That takes away from the current players.

Another thing to mention:

People want to say blocking schemes have gotten more complex. This is true. However, it was arguably harder to rush the passer then than it is now. Because back then, it was a boxing match on grass. You could hold, trip, grap, slap, anything.

So while you saw a 1 on 1 matchup compared to a double, chip etc, you were basically held on every play and sometimes cheapshotted. Id say that it was actually harder rushing the passer than then it is now.

So I know a lot of you want to take credit away from the guys from yesteryear, but I personally think their brand of football was much tougher than today's game. Especially those 2 way players. Those guys were the toughest SOBs to ever play this game.

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You mean QB assassination? that' what the Buddy Ryan schemes were all about.

Willie Lanier & Ray Nitschke also the most feared lights-out MLBs back in the day. And Bob Lilly on the d-line, 1st draft pick of the Cowboys franchise, he defined a whole new technique.

What do you mean, the hits today are worse? The old League was far more injurious... the injury rate in the NFL in the late 60s - 70s was 100% by the end of December, not a question of if you'd be injured but when & how badly.

And they allowed the head slap back then. Deacon Jones was a master at it. He said it was the best way to dominate an OT who was bigger & quicker than you -- he talked about smacking the OT as hard you could in the 1st defensive series b/c his ears rang all game long, forget about hearing the snap count.