Um...that's pretty piss poor, Median. It essentially sugggests that because the idea of death and resurrection may have been one known to the gospel writers they used it to make up their own version.

Actually it's not "piss poor". It is viewed as such to you because you aren't open minded to practicing disinterested critical investigation of your religion (aka you have a presupposional bias which hinders you from being critically minded). And neither did I say it was a knock down article. There is sufficient reason to doubt the claims of Christianity, and at the very least, withhold judgment regarding it's truth claims. But withholding judgment isn't good enough for you, is it? You've already made your precommittment and that is the issue.

There is sufficient reason to doubt the claims of Christianity, and at the very least, withhold judgment regarding it's truth claims.

Withholding judgement? Is this you, withholding judgenment?:

"There is sufficient reason to doubt the claims of Christianity" Missed that part didn't you?

Wow. You just love ignoring parts of what I have written, don't you? I said, "and at the very least" didn't I? Can you read? How fucking dishonest of you to attempt to misrepresent (and/or defame) anyone who questions, doubts, or doesn't believe your claims to the supernatural.

Christianity is not original and plagiarized from the pagan religions around it at the time.

Or is that you, making a truth claim?

Strawman.

I never said I had to (or was going to) withhold judgment. I'm confident that Christianity is false (and plagiarized from other religions around it's time - namely because we have examples of it happening with other religions in history). Is it an "absolute" claim? Nope - never said it was. This whole "absolute truth claim" nonsense is quite a hang up for you apologists, isn't it?

What happened to Sky High? I was waiting for him to explain what he was doing to make the world a better place, while waiting in his stinking human body for Jesus to return. How about them land mine removal programs, Sky? When are you going to sign up?

What happened to Sky High? I was waiting for him to explain what he was doing to make the world a better place, while waiting in his stinking human body for Jesus to return. How about them land mine removal programs, Sky? When are you going to sign up?

You don't know where I've been already. Death is for whimps. Dying is easy as pie. Living is hell. Living is pain.Living is for real men. Whimps go off and risk their lives for glory they never see. Weak people shoot themselvesjust to avoid pain. Real men work to stay alive and deal with the pain of life. Death is your head crammed againsta wall till you stop breathing and neighbors complaining of the smell. Life is dragging the juicy furniture out on theto get rid of the stench while you gag on it yourself. Life is over using your leg till a bone breaks and gangrene setsin. Then they remove one leg and you get to live with that. Try real life. It's tough.

SkyWriting, your "Living is hell" post saddens Me. Upon reading it a few times, what I'm getting out of it is a lack of empathy for the suffering of others and a disdain for those who choose not to suffer.

This isn't a competition to see who hurts the most, or who can grit their teeth the hardest. Although people frequently live in inhumane situations, or get hurt or killed while trying to help other people, IMO there is no intrinsic moral value whatsoever in suffering itself. Pain is just pain.

And there is nothing weak about wanting to escape suffering. If that were so, I'd be surprised if any of the "O dear Lord, get me out of this fallen world!" crowd had the strength to lift their morning coffee.

You don't know where I've been already. Death is for whimps. Dying is easy as pie. Living is hell. Living is pain.Living is for real men. Whimps go off and risk their lives for glory they never see. Weak people shoot themselvesjust to avoid pain. Real men work to stay alive and deal with the pain of life. Death is your head crammed againsta wall till you stop breathing and neighbors complaining of the smell. Life is dragging the juicy furniture out on theto get rid of the stench while you gag on it yourself. Life is over using your leg till a bone breaks and gangrene setsin. Then they remove one leg and you get to live with that. Try real life. It's tough.

I sorta want you to go up to a soldier and tell them this view of yours.

Trying to solve life's problems is hard. Just saying "F**k it, life is hard, deal with it" is easy as pie you un-empathetic waste of f**king space.

Edit:Tried to tone it down. I failed.

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"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

You don't know where I've been already. Death is for whimps. Dying is easy as pie. Living is hell. Living is pain.Living is for real men. Whimps go off and risk their lives for glory they never see. Weak people shoot themselvesjust to avoid pain. Real men work to stay alive and deal with the pain of life. Death is your head crammed againsta wall till you stop breathing and neighbors complaining of the smell. Life is dragging the juicy furniture out on theto get rid of the stench while you gag on it yourself. Life is over using your leg till a bone breaks and gangrene setsin. Then they remove one leg and you get to live with that. Try real life. It's tough.

And the greatest part of this "being a man" (and dealing with the real pain of life) is that you get all the credit for doing it! There isn't any good reason for thinking some deity named Yahweh, or Krishna, or Allah, or Horus, or Zeus (or any number of other man-made god names) is doing anything.

When you overcome, you get the glory for your efforts!

That is the beauty of humanism. You take responsibility for yourself. You take the credit when it's due. And you experience the greatness, mystique, and wonder of this precious, priceless, thing we call life on your own. It is yours, and no one else's.

You don't know where I've been already. Death is for whimps. Dying is easy as pie. Living is hell. Living is pain.Living is for real men. Whimps go off and risk their lives for glory they never see. Weak people shoot themselvesjust to avoid pain. Real men work to stay alive and deal with the pain of life. Death is your head crammed againsta wall till you stop breathing and neighbors complaining of the smell. Life is dragging the juicy furniture out on theto get rid of the stench while you gag on it yourself. Life is over using your leg till a bone breaks and gangrene setsin. Then they remove one leg and you get to live with that. Try real life. It's tough.

And the greatest part of this "being a man" (and dealing with the real pain of life) is that you get all the credit for doing it! There isn't any good reason for thinking some deity named Yahweh, or Krishna, or Allah, or Horus, or Zeus (or any number of other man-made god names) is doing anything.

When you overcome, you get the glory for your efforts!

That is the beauty of humanism. You take responsibility for yourself. You take the credit when it's due. And you experience the greatness, mystique, and wonder of this precious, priceless, thing we call life on your own. It is yours, and no one else's.

Your parents deserve all the credit at minimum. And i doubt you'd last long without people who love you for no reason at all.When you are born you are pretty worthless. Assuming you start working at 16, that's 16 years of being a burden on society. I don't see where you should get any credit at all. Without good training by selfless others, you'r screwed.

You don't know where I've been already. Death is for whimps. Dying is easy as pie. Living is hell. Living is pain.Living is for real men. Whimps go off and risk their lives for glory they never see. Weak people shoot themselvesjust to avoid pain. Real men work to stay alive and deal with the pain of life. Death is your head crammed againsta wall till you stop breathing and neighbors complaining of the smell. Life is dragging the juicy furniture out on theto get rid of the stench while you gag on it yourself. Life is over using your leg till a bone breaks and gangrene setsin. Then they remove one leg and you get to live with that. Try real life. It's tough.

I sorta want you to go up to a soldier and tell them this view of yours.

Trying to solve life's problems is hard. Just saying "F**k it, life is hard, deal with it" is easy as pie you un-empathetic waste of f**king space.

SkyWriting, your "Living is hell" post saddens Me. Upon reading it a few times, what I'm getting out of it is a lack of empathy for the suffering of others and a disdain for those who choose not to suffer.

This isn't a competition to see who hurts the most, or who can grit their teeth the hardest. Although people frequently live in inhumane situations, or get hurt or killed while trying to help other people, IMO there is no intrinsic moral value whatsoever in suffering itself. Pain is just pain.

And there is nothing weak about wanting to escape suffering. If that were so, I'd be surprised if any of the "O dear Lord, get me out of this fallen world!" crowd had the strength to lift their morning coffee.

Yes, my brother was in pain and killed himself. Too much empathy, and I'd join him.There are lots of ways to avoid pain. A good number of them will kill you.

Your parents deserve all the credit at minimum. And i doubt you'd last long without people who love you for no reason at all.When you are born you are pretty worthless. Assuming you start working at 16, that's 16 years of being a burden on society. I don't see where you should get any credit at all. Without good training by selfless others, you'r screwed.

My wife teaches special ed. With the wrong parents, you are a mess.

Could you get anymore illogical? Once again, you've attempted to change the subject. That is called the fallacy of a Red Herring. Are you even capable of admitting your errors? Talk about hubris...

The example YOU brought up was in the context of an adult, not a child. MY point, was that YOU get all the credit for YOUR doings. How fucking dare you miss represent my argument. Ass...

Btw, no, you are quite wrong. My parents DO NOT get all the credit. They get the shame of being massive fuckups and screwing up their children big time. WE take the credit for righting the wrongs.

Doesn't your bible talk about humility? Perhaps you should be practicing that here by admitting when you're wrong on this forum.

No, parents don't necessarily get all the credit for raising someone. For one thing, not all parents are good at the job of raising children. For another, even if someone has exemplary parents, the fact remains that they still have to absorb and ingrain all the lessons that they're taught. So even in the best possible circumstances, children still get some of the credit for turning out alright, and in most, they get more.

I would have thought so myself. My experience with the medical profession is about 50% good vs sucks.

That's not an answer to my question about which country you live in

As an aside, my experience with the medical profession in Australia, New Zealand and Southern Africa is that it has:

saved my own life several times, including from an otherwise deadly infection with Yersinia

saved the life of my wife several times, including from cancer

saved the life of my daughter at least once (and she's only 13)

saved the life of my father several times

saved the life of my mother several times, including from viral encephalitis and most recently in January when she flat-lined before surgery for a twisted bowel that had developed gangrene.

And I'm not counting basic prevention such as vaccinations - I'm talking about serious interventions with antibiotics, surgery, chemotherapy and radiotherapy - all of which has protected us 100% so far.

I served a couple of years in the South African army doing land mine sweeping and convoy protection to get medical teams safely into remote areas of Namibia and Angola to treat the local populations in war torn areas - in that time I saw many thousands of desperate patients treated - NOT ONE BIT OF IT SUCKED!

I think you are either biased in your perception of medical science or maybe you have an agenda that involves denying credit to medical science.

Welcome to the wonderful world of having a conversation with SkyWriting.

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"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

I would have thought so myself. My experience with the medical profession is about 50% good vs sucks.

That's not an answer to my question about which country you live in

As an aside, my experience with the medical profession in Australia, New Zealand and Southern Africa is that it has:

saved my own life several times, including from an otherwise deadly infection with Yersinia

saved the life of my wife several times, including from cancer

saved the life of my daughter at least once (and she's only 13)

saved the life of my father several times

saved the life of my mother several times, including from viral encephalitis and most recently in January when she flat-lined before surgery for a twisted bowel that had developed gangrene.

And I'm not counting basic prevention such as vaccinations - I'm talking about serious interventions with antibiotics, surgery, chemotherapy and radiotherapy - all of which has protected us 100% so far.

I served a couple of years in the South African army doing land mine sweeping and convoy protection to get medical teams safely into remote areas of Namibia and Angola to treat the local populations in war torn areas - in that time I saw many thousands of desperate patients treated - NOT ONE BIT OF IT SUCKED!

I think you are either biased in your perception of medical science or maybe you have an agenda that involves denying credit to medical science.

I think you are biased in your opinion of me and have an agenda to deny giving me credit.

Just my own personal experience here in Milwaukee.My doctor is interested in giving me drugs for any problems. Little else.I have permanent scars on my face and across my head because the first 4 doctors misdiagnosed the lesions on my face.The 5th doctor said...."That is clearly shingles, I wish you had seen me sooner to avoid scars"Doctor #1 lost the shingles test he sent out and didn't follow up.

My wife was under constant daily care and the doctors knew about the break and didn't notice the infection in the bone so she lost her leg. Would you like a picture? She was an accountant at a major US hospital.

My brother received counseling. He killed himself.My step-son received counseling. He started his 2 real job this week. The first lasted 2 months. He's 25.

No, parents don't necessarily get all the credit for raising someone. For one thing, not all parents are good at the job of raising children. For another, even if someone has exemplary parents, the fact remains that they still have to absorb and ingrain all the lessons that they're taught. So even in the best possible circumstances, children still get some of the credit for turning out alright, and in most, they get more.

It doesn't matter WHO raises kids. They get support from other till they turn 21. Some get cut off sooner.All food and clothing, money teaching.....everything they are is from others who give with little out of lovefor family or strangers. The "humanist" taking credit for only himself to credit is a blind ingrate.

When you read this, you have the impression that you are having a dialog with another person.A relationship with God is like that. Imagination is possible, but absent a disorder, doesn'tlast for years.