Community-run site
ValveTime has a confirmation from Valve of plans to officially launch
Dota 2 this summer. Valve's MOBA game is currently in the beta stage, but a
report in
PC Gamer Magazine says they game will be released prior to
The International 3
in August, and they got an email reply from Valve's Erik Johnson confirming that
this is the plan, subject, of course to the vagaries of their site's namesake
Valve Time.

Sorry for striking a nerve on many a DOTA lover here. Look, I have nothing much against it other than what I stated. I'll most likely give it another attempt in it's final form because I did have a blast on many DOTA type Wc3 maps. I guess I'm just such a big Wc3 fan and I'm disappointed thinking I may be 50 years old by the time I ever see WC4. Heck, by that time, you probably have to pay to unlock each race or units, lol.

Power on to you DOTA people. I will most likely see you on the battlefield!

Ive got 450 hours logged on Dota and I'd have to say the thing that keeps me coming back is it's depth, variety and balance. Valve has done a superb job in creating a supremely deep game with great balance and polishing it constantly with constant patches and updates. Every game is different despite it being the same map because of the 1000s of possible combinations of heroes (over 90 to choose from) and the different stategies you need to employ to win depending on your team makeup.

On top of the fact that I got the game for free and it doesn't cost much to buy outright and its very easy to get a free betakey i think it represents phenomenal value. Sorry to sound like a fanboy but I bloody love it. its like crack for me!

Xero wrote on Jun 17, 2013, 15:33:Yeah but you get all those interactions in the RTS of Warcraft 3, BUT you have to deal with microing your "expendable" units as well while you keep your base in production at the same time. Watching the elite players do all this while keeping a direct control on their hero (or 3 at a time for that matter), was mind boggling skill.

Controlling 1 hero and not having to worry about much else aside from your team work which in multi-player games in WC3 it was the same, just seems like a simplified version of Wc3.

It sounds like you just want to look down on people for something they happen to enjoy more than you and I'm a bit disheartened that so many others here are ready to oblige you in doing so.

Xero wrote on Jun 17, 2013, 15:33:Controlling 1 hero and not having to worry about much else aside from your team work which in multi-player games in WC3 it was the same, just seems like a simplified version of Wc3.

You are totally correct in that it is simplified in that you play a single hero with between 5-10 abilities. The strategic element, almost infinite number of champion combinations, and forced teamplay are where the complexity comes in. Winning is not based on the number of actions per minute you can perform....ie, how quickly you can click your mouse. Success generally comes from working with the other players and flowing with them by reading both their actions as well as your enemies.

I didn't care for League of Legends when I first started playing....it wasn't until I had 20+ games under my belt that I realized that I was only understanding/appreciating the tip of the iceberg. I watch pro streams and play on three accounts now, and still feel like there is so much to learn and enjoy.

Xero wrote on Jun 17, 2013, 15:33:Yeah but you get all those interactions in the RTS of Warcraft 3, BUT you have to deal with microing your "expendable" units as well while you keep your base in production at the same time. Watching the elite players do all this while keeping a direct control on their hero (or 3 at a time for that matter), was mind boggling skill.

Controlling 1 hero and not having to worry about much else aside from your team work which in multi-player games in WC3 it was the same, just seems like a simplified version of Wc3.

It sounds like you just want to look down on people for something they happen to enjoy more than you and I'm a bit disheartened that so many others here are ready to oblige you in doing so.

THANK YOU... for reminding me of Supreme Commander: Forged Alliance!! I haven't played this is like 4 years but it was an instant classic. My friends and I logged many hours battling it out in this game. Time to reinstall and relive the good old days!

Xero wrote on Jun 17, 2013, 15:33: Yeah but you get all those interactions in the RTS of Warcraft 3, BUT you have to deal with microing your "expendable" units as well while you keep your base in production at the same time. Watching the elite players do all this while keeping a direct control on their hero (or 3 at a time for that matter), was mind boggling skill.

Controlling 1 hero and not having to worry about much else aside from your team work which in multi-player games in WC3 it was the same, just seems like a simplified version of Wc3.

You can't argue that a game is better just because it's more mechanically intensive. If you do that, then you can say Warcraft 3 is just Brood War for idiots.

Besides, they're completely different games. DotA is NOT a RTS and it only shares similarities because of the WC3 engine. Saying another game is better because you can control more units at a time doesn't make any sense. You only control one character in may different genres of games, and it has no relation to how good the game is.

Xero wrote on Jun 17, 2013, 14:18:I feel like DOTA's concept was Warcraft 3 for idiots. It lets you play and focus in on the hero aspect without all that micro control in between. I loved Warcraft 3 to death but honestly cannot find enough fun in controlling JUST a hero. Wc3 had the perfect balance of hero/unit/base building. Controlling just a hero is fun...once in a while.

It's the interactions between all the different heroes and the possible item builds you can use that make it interesting. Which heroes you should pick, which lane they should go in, which items you should get, and how your team should play all depend on a vast number of variables. It easily has just as if not more depth than an RTS like WC3.

Yeah but you get all those interactions in the RTS of Warcraft 3, BUT you have to deal with microing your "expendable" units as well while you keep your base in production at the same time. Watching the elite players do all this while keeping a direct control on their hero (or 3 at a time for that matter), was mind boggling skill.

Controlling 1 hero and not having to worry about much else aside from your team work which in multi-player games in WC3 it was the same, just seems like a simplified version of Wc3.

Xero wrote on Jun 17, 2013, 14:18:I feel like DOTA's concept was Warcraft 3 for idiots. It lets you play and focus in on the hero aspect without all that micro control in between. I loved Warcraft 3 to death but honestly cannot find enough fun in controlling JUST a hero. Wc3 had the perfect balance of hero/unit/base building. Controlling just a hero is fun...once in a while.

This sums up the DotA genre nicely, although it probably sounds harsh. On the other end of the spectrum, Supreme Commander Forged Alliance has been on sale a couple of times this year already, for those of you who still don't have it.

Xero wrote on Jun 17, 2013, 14:18:I feel like DOTA's concept was Warcraft 3 for idiots. It lets you play and focus in on the hero aspect without all that micro control in between. I loved Warcraft 3 to death but honestly cannot find enough fun in controlling JUST a hero. Wc3 had the perfect balance of hero/unit/base building. Controlling just a hero is fun...once in a while.

It's the interactions between all the different heroes and the possible item builds you can use that make it interesting. Which heroes you should pick, which lane they should go in, which items you should get, and how your team should play all depend on a vast number of variables. It easily has just as if not more depth than an RTS like WC3.

Smellfinger wrote on Jun 17, 2013, 13:42:MOBAs magnify horrific behavior by not allowing you to leave without being penalized. In Dota, you either play with assholes or you leave enough games and get put in a separate queue with even more assholes. The forced intimacy is what turns a lot of people off, myself included.

FWIW, DOTA2 has a tolerable community. Valve implemented a mute-ban feature so that anyone who gets reported can potentially get muted for anything from a day to a week or more. It vastly reduced the amount of toxic interactions and resulted in a tirade of terribly written, expletive laden tirades on the dev forum about how the poster had been unfairly muted.

NKD wrote on Jun 17, 2013, 10:18:I'll never understand what people see in this genre. I've given it a chance, I really have, but my god I can't help but absolutely despise it. And I don't have words for that feeling when I log on to Steam to see if anyone wants to play something and its just a big long list of people playing bottom-tier Dota 2 games thinking that someday they'll be good.

I kind of agree. My nephew bought this for me, but I really don't understand why people find it interesting. I've put in a couple of hours, but it just doesn't grab me. I guess I need to master a character or two so I can make it work better, but playing it is kind of boring.

Xero wrote on Jun 17, 2013, 14:18:I feel like DOTA's concept was Warcraft 3 for idiots. It lets you play and focus in on the hero aspect without all that micro control in between. I loved Warcraft 3 to death but honestly cannot find enough fun in controlling JUST a hero. Wc3 had the perfect balance of hero/unit/base building. Controlling just a hero is fun...once in a while.

I prefer regular RTS but MOBA games have their place too, there is a lot of complexity in the sheer number of heroes/counters and how it all interacts with specific builds, itemization and teamwork.

I feel like DOTA's concept was Warcraft 3 for idiots. It lets you play and focus in on the hero aspect without all that micro control in between. I loved Warcraft 3 to death but honestly cannot find enough fun in controlling JUST a hero. Wc3 had the perfect balance of hero/unit/base building. Controlling just a hero is fun...once in a while.

Smellfinger wrote on Jun 17, 2013, 13:42:MOBAs magnify horrific behavior by not allowing you to leave without being penalized. In Dota, you either play with assholes or you leave enough games and get put in a separate queue with even more assholes. The forced intimacy is what turns a lot of people off, myself included.

I can see how that would bug people but it does serve a purpose. The games are usually 20-30m and it severely penalizes your team if you leave which degrades the experience for everyone else. I still leave the odd game and have never really suffered for it. There are now builtin tools for dealing with players who exhibit poor behavior BTW, at least in Dota 2.

Verno wrote on Jun 17, 2013, 11:24:People blah blah about the community but it's really no worse than other online communities, I found BF3s pub-stomping community to be infinitely worse.

MOBAs magnify horrific behavior by not allowing you to leave without being penalized. In Dota, you either play with assholes or you leave enough games and get put in a separate queue with even more assholes. The forced intimacy is what turns a lot of people off, myself included.

NKD wrote on Jun 17, 2013, 10:18:I'll never understand what people see in this genre. I've given it a chance, I really have, but my god I can't help but absolutely despise it. And I don't have words for that feeling when I log on to Steam to see if anyone wants to play something and its just a big long list of people playing bottom-tier Dota 2 games thinking that someday they'll be good.

We don't all have to like the same things, ya know. I've never understood the appeal of sports games - that doesn't mean all sports games are awful.

NKD wrote on Jun 17, 2013, 10:18:I'll never understand what people see in this genre. I've given it a chance, I really have, but my god I can't help but absolutely despise it. And I don't have words for that feeling when I log on to Steam to see if anyone wants to play something and its just a big long list of people playing bottom-tier Dota 2 games thinking that someday they'll be good.

Same reason people play anything that they might not ever be MLG level for, they find it fun and rewarding. It's a combination of twitch, skill and strategy that is pretty engaging. People blah blah about the community but it's really no worse than other online communities, I found BF3s pub-stomping community to be infinitely worse. It's certainly not for everyone though, *shrug* find a different game to play, not like there's a shortage of em.