22 Responses to NB4L Means Capacity Cuts On The 24

Passengers are becoming more and more reluctant to travel on the upper deck and prefer to stand dowstairs, even when there are free seats on the lower deck, blocking the aisle and exits. This, of course, increases dwell time as free passage through the vehicle is impeded. Free passage by dint of “forgetting” to touch in at the middle door, however, is another matter….

To add insult to injury, the 24 recently had its frequency reduced, from 12 buses per hour to 10. So 12 x 87 passengers per hour (1,044) reduced to 10 x 87 (870), reduced again to 10 x 80 (800). That’s nearly a quarter of the capacity removed.

Why was the frequency cut? To make the route more reliable without spending any more money on it, by spreading out the existing resources. Why was the route unreliable? Traffic congestion. Does that say something about the success or otherwise of Boris Johnson’s “smoothing traffic flow” policy?

The question that springs to mind is who will be monitoring how many people are on the bus to ensure that it doesn’t become overloaded? Is there a device in the cab that tells the driver how much weight is on board or do they and/or the “bus assistant” have to keep track of how many people get on and off the bus? That is going to be a bit difficult with three doors.

As it was designed for 87 but only allowed to take 80 one can see that there will be a certain amount of misunderstanding when staff inform passengers wishing to board that they are full when there are obviously spaces., the only blessing is as Helen says people seem reluctant to go upstairs these days and congregate around the doors, there might not be any room downstairs for passengers to get through to fill the top deck.

People are reluctant to go upstairs as they fear the ‘trouble’ that may occur. This is becaus ever since they removed conductors – upstairs on the bus is like a trap – relying on the driver to check his cameras and take action.
I’m a 38 year old man – so I don’t have this fear – but I can fully understand why some people do – you only need some boisterous kids and it sounds like war is breaking out (usually with foul language)

Of course a conductor is no guarantee of a peaceful bus – but as ‘on the buses’ taught us – the combination of the two can be hillarious and very powerful

Anyway – it’s just more ‘unintended consequences’ of letting the bean counters dictate how to run a public service.

Boris’s efforts to imporve traffic flow was to cut the time pedestrians have to cross – much to my amusement as I witness at least 5 a day nearly getting run over as they can’t understand why the green man stays for less time than they have to cross!

Won’t it be great if Boris is given the ability to tax and spend London’s wealth – as he is so desperate to do.
if this is a sign of the quality of his spending – then we’re best off letting the incompetent Government do it!

I suspect this has more to do with ‘filling financial black holes’ he has created – rather than anything to do with improving London.

People do prefer to stand downstairs. Unfortunately, Boris has got rid of the high capacity single deck buses which allowed this – the much maligned bendybus.
I use the 24 a lot and am not looking forward to the new buses on this route.

The removal of Citaro Artics was the most politically engineered bit of London Buses decision-making imaginable. All but the very earliest Citaros came equipped with rear facing external cameras ahead of the doors on the rear section. capturing images of the very area(s) around which the contention of causing a risk to cyclists revolved.

Therefore, instead of debating qualitative contention that there were risks and incidents, a quantitative measure, using DIR to pick-out footage where a cyclist form or pedestrian form was recorded within say 1.2 metres of the bus, and perhaps also when the bus cam close to other fixed or moving objects. A clear record of any incidents and potentially the locations where such events occurred would have delivered a rational policy, identifying routes which could easily be operated safely by artics, and locations or routes where road layout had to be addressed, or the route closed to artic use.

“When the buses enter service much interest will be focused on their unladen weight. That of the prototypes was higher than hoped for at 12,650kg, which reduced total capacity to 77 passengers, 10 below TfL’s desired level. Production models are expected to carry a full 87 passengers” – not without another axle, they won’t…

Dave H – I’m afraid artics were simply not passenger friendly at all and unsuitable for long distance services in London. Virtually no seats and crammed full of standing passengers – putting them on routes like the 25, 38 and 73 was a mistake. Triaxle double-deckers would have offered a far better solution on most of the trunk routes that were converted, but TfL didn’t and still don’t appear to be interested in these.

People are reluctant to go onto top deck of buses – err why, I love it up there and as they are often relatively full I guess I am not the only one. As for rowdyness it is very rare on my regular routes but I do understand one or two routes this may not be the case – Route 24 rowdy, don’t think so

And the bendy buses were a disaster – not only dangerous for anyone crossing the road or even cyclists but inside the lack of seats, standing daily all the way from Dalston to London Bridge on a 149 was not good public transport experience of mine

I am pleased Boris is doing something to get an identifiable bus for London back on our streets, the Borismaster may not be perfect but at least it has the chance to become iconic. It will also get better as the engineers learn more in operation, this is always the case with new technologies – Boeing 787?

@minstral – Piss off you dribbling Boris apologist. Bendy buses were no threat to anyone and their scrapping was a pointless sop to half wits like you. I hope your mum makes no money tonight when she’s on the game.

@gregtingey – oh dear. Agree or disagree with me as you choose. I didn’t vote for Boris and never will. However there are some things that he has done right and I won’t let Dogma get in the way. The Borismaster’s are great and an icon for London.

Argue from points of strength not meaningless insults. Take your tablets and think before you post again

The bendy bus was a nightmare. On the route I use 6 times a day we’ve had steaming gangs, fights , dug dealing and massive fare evasion. It was worth a try but on several routes the roads and social behaviour made the journey a stressful one to say the least.
There was too much haste in getting rid of the Routemaster which is still the best means of swift bus travel in a cramped congested city.
It shows that technology does not always make things better.

The new bus is not bad,better than many types in London although the Wrightbuses are about the best of the bunch.
They are building the new LT types as well.
I’ve ridden on a few on the 38 but it’s going on the 24 which is a moderately busy route and TfLs favourite test route.
They do bring an air of quality and pride to bus travel which was lost with the demise of the Routemaster and make bus travel something that does not brand passengers as second class citizens.
It’s up to citizens to respect and behave accordingly, which is altogether another issue.

No matter what your opinion on bendy buses – it does not remove the fact that your mayor – who claimed that Ken Livingstone ‘wasted money’ – has spent MORE money on bringing in LESS bus making your journey WORSE.

We shall see how much you praise Boris when you’re standing all the journey anyway – and having to pay MORE for the pleasure as the cost per passenger is greater!

My how some people will fill themselves with any old bullshit just to avoid facing the fact they have been taken for a mug.