shower_in_my_socks:Why would a guy who's about to drop off a bomb in a backpack have other supplies stored in the side pocket? Seems like something you would only do if you were planning on wearing the backpack all day, and not just carrying it to a bomb site and ditching it. It's almost as if, oh I don't know, there was no bomb in that guy's backpack at all, and he was just out enjoying the day with everybody else and had extra stuff with him in case he needed it.

At least one thing in Israel that terrorists who commit suicide bombings are told is to do their best to blend in, whether it is to try and appear Israeli, appear as a tourist, etc... There have been very famous cases of, for example, a terrorist dressing himself as an ultra-Orthodox Jew and blowing himself up in an ultra-Orthodox neighborhood, dressing up as American/British tourists, another famous case is a woman who, pre-bombing, always wore a burqa, but when she went on her suicide mission, she dressed in very Western, very tight American clothes with a back pack and blew herself up in the middle of a restaurant.

This is not just in Israel, though, that's what happens in Afghanistan and Iraq as well, where they try to blend in with the locals/security forces in order to kill as mnay people as possible.

So when the pictures of the actual terrorists who committed this atrocious act come out, I wouldn't be surprised if they are dressed as runners, hauling around running gear. In fact, I'd be surprised if they are not dressed like that.

This is why the people going 'SEE FALSE FLAG!!' are retarded, why on earth would a couple of SEALS about to pull off a false flag attack wear friggin SEAL clothes/insignia and visible ear pieces?

I guess we'll just hope it's a white guy like Salon says. (Also for the record: The Boston Herald is a tabloid newspaper in Boston and they lean right. The other paper here is the Boston Globe which leans left. A couple if years ago the Globe was going bankrupt and the Dems in MA all got together and "saved" the paper. You can trash the Herald if you want, but it's also good to point out that the Globe has zero journalistic integrity and took money from the people they were supposed to be reporting on.)

Tatsuma: ...Literally the worst thing that I said before that was 'Well it seems to be the most compelling case made by the internet forensic crowd'. It's insulting to be called a racist where there is not a single whiff of racism anywhere there.

I have been posting on this website for almost 10 years with the same username (can't remember the username I was using before that, very few posts and forgot the password, which lead to this one).

To all those who accused me of racism, I've asked to bring me a single example of racist things I've said and I would personally asked to be permabanned if that was the case. I brought this up hundreds of time, and no one ever produced a single quote of me saying something racist.

It's these bullshiat accusations (no ...

Why does this bit matter? Why even bring it up?

Also, you seem to be promoting one side over another("they certainly seem like suspects. They have backpacks, and then don't!"), and being snarky to people who say "THEY DID IT!!1!" does not count as refutation. It counts as "ad hominem", which is a flawed debate tactic.Just because you're snarky to them, doesn't mean you don't agree with their opinion. You could, even though you used a different method to reach the same conclusion.

For example, CC1984 constantly is snarky to me, though we share many of the same ethics and social mores, just because we either misinterpret what the other is saying, or one of our reasoning methods are flawed.

Also, if you get miffed by someone calling you "__ist" on Fark, tres fark do you think you are? Coddle City?

Mr Guy:If it turns out these guys were even remotely involved, I'll be more than happy to publicly apologize for calling you out.

Cheers.

And yeah the accusations or racism are just grating, because a lot of them seem to be based on 'Well this guy is an Orthodox Jew and he chose to live in Israel/Judea & Samaria, therefore he HAS to be a racist'. Which, in itself, is really racist.

Mr Guy:Tatsuma: I stated multiple times that those were based on CNN/crowd-sourced forensics and we should wait until the FBI spoke on the subject to take them as concrete, though, so even then I realized that this might very well be wrong, so in light of that, I apologize for repeating these incorrect claims, because we should know better than to take instant reports at face value, especially given the level of effort I have put into correcting biased reporting during conflicts in the Middle East.

Tatsuma: Literally the worst thing that I said before that was 'Well it seems to be the most compelling cased made by the internet forensic crowd'. It's insulting to be called a racist where there is not a single whiff of racism anywhere there.

You've got a right to be offended for being accused of racism. I was trying to be careful not to make that mistake, although I think you are stripping your own quotes out of the context of the overall narrative. You are right, you were careful to report everything second hand. The impression we've all gotten is that you were also careful to bring those claims up quickly over, and over again, after people pointed out discrepancies between the individuals you were posting and the individuals being looked for. At that point, people used their own stereotyping to decide your apparent eagerness to believe the crowd sourcing was racially motivated. I agree that's not fair to you.

If it turns out these guys were even remotely involved, I'll be more than happy to publicly apologize for calling you out.

When he said yesterday that he wasn't claiming they were Muslims, I suggested that they could be Sephardic Jews.

His response was to flip out and declare that I was added to his ignore list.

Wearing unit hats and fatigue style cargo pants is a hell of a way to stay undercover. Further, one thing SEALs are sure not know for is physical fitness and the desire to excel at personal fitness challenges. I can assure they also never run in a world class marathon or support their friends or teammates that would never run in such an event.

and we all know that when military folks are off duty to support friends or teammates in a civilian event like a marathon, they always like to wear combat boots and fatigues. cause it's so comfy.

/the radio earpiece is of course plugged into their i-phones & they are just rocking out//nothing to see here

Wearing unit hats and fatigue style cargo pants is a hell of a way to stay undercover. Further, one thing SEALs are sure not know for is physical fitness and the desire to excel at personal fitness challenges. I can assure they also never run in a world class marathon or support their friends or teammates that would never run in such an event.

and we all know that when military folks are off duty to support friends or teammates in a civilian event like a marathon, they always like to wear combat boots and fatigues. cause it's so comfy.

/the radio earpiece is of course plugged into their i-phones & they are just rocking out//nothing to see here

Tatsuma:Mr Guy: If it turns out these guys were even remotely involved, I'll be more than happy to publicly apologize for calling you out.

Cheers.

And yeah the accusations or racism are just grating, because a lot of them seem to be based on 'Well this guy is an Orthodox Jew and he chose to live in Israel/Judea & Samaria, therefore he HAS to be a racist'. Which, in itself, is really racist.

I been accused of delusionally thinking the best of people, but I sincerely think people were looking for a reason why you couldn't be dissuaded that these guys weren't dressed the same or looked particularly suspicious, so they picked out the jew/arab angle and given who you are, it's not hard to apply. I don't think anyone outside the usual loudmouths were attacking you immediately, but there's a definite shift as more evidence came out that made us start to feel very defensive towards these guys as additional victims of the mass media, rather than terrorists.

While I'm not thrilled with people attacking you overtly, I AM a little proud of how defensively people are swarming towards these wrong-place-wrong-skin-color kids and DEMANDING that they be treated fairly, openly, and transparently. It DOES warm my heart a little how quickly the reactions turned toward protecting people from false accusations from the initial reaction of blame everyone. We identified these kids as OUR guys, track stars at a local school, and we will NOT let them be turned in stereotype dark skin kid that can be targeted for retaliation. I'm honestly sorry you got caught in the brunt of that momma-bear reflex.

Tatsuma:ctrl-f "case closed" on the second page, they should be right above my post, moderator

Is it bad that when you posted that the other day, I was halfway tempted to make a macro about posting things sarcastically that will come back to bite you in the ass because people unfairly think you actually are that bad?

Tatsuma:How did these two end up with their brown faces splashed all over the world? Do we even need to ask?

Apparently we need to, because you seem to think it was based in racism: it was not. It was based on where they were and what they were doing and the fact they appeared to be leaving a bag exactly at the spot where the explosion happened.

Another of the suspects identified by Reddit looks like he's a white male in his 50s. Once again, this has nothing to do with color, race or religion, only with suspicious behavior, standing very near to where the bombs went off, and carrying bags.

Yeah, but funny which single photo the Post decided to put on the front page.

Mr Guy:Is it bad that when you posted that the other day, I was halfway tempted to make a macro about posting things sarcastically that will come back to bite you in the ass because people unfairly think you actually are that bad?

Yeah I can appreciate the irony of me making a sarcastic comment mocking people who were assuming that these guys were guilty based on a couple of pictures and their skins being a couple of shades browner than the average bostonian, and then people using half of that statement in order to accuse me and assume I'm a racist by quoting it completely out of context when I was in fact saying the very opposite.

RexTalionis:Tatsuma: I said 'violent attacks' in the aftermath of 9/11 (meaning immediately following it, and in relation to it). That link goes all the way to 2011, and the vast majority of these items (as bad as they all are!) are not related to what I was talking about.

Three men were shot, and another three were assaulted for sure in the two months after 9/11 (and a smattering of other types of hate crimes)

[ww3.hdnux.com image 497x471]

Can someone post this for Tatsuma? He has me on ignore.

What are the numbers for 2002? And are Jews still in the lead with at least double the incidents?

Mr Guy:I'm honestly sorry you got caught in the brunt of that momma-bear reflex.

why? vigiliantes reap what they sow. they're nearly as bad as the perpetrators of these events. there's a reason richard jewel's name keeps coming up in these threads. i have no sympathy for someone who tries to ruin lives with no proof and faces backlash.

Tatsuma:So when the pictures of the actual terrorists who committed this atrocious act come out, I wouldn't be surprised if they are dressed as runners, hauling around running gear. In fact, I'd be surprised if they are not dressed like that.

I would be you one dollar the individual or individuals were not dressed anything like a runner hauling around running gear.

/criminals - in general - are rather stupid people//so are people who are armchair quarterbacking this investigation

Tatsuma:This is bullshiat, as far as I can remember you had a huge total of two violent attacks on minorities in the aftermath of 9/11. Stop acting like white people are just itching for a reason to conduct public lynchings, that's pretty racist in itself.

Texas inmate Mark Anthony Stroman was executed Wednesday night for killing a man from India during series of revenge shootings after the terror attacks of September 11, 2001.

Stroman was put to death at 9:53 p.m. ET, a spokesman for the Texas Department of Criminal Justice said.The U.S. Supreme Court denied a stay of execution for Stroman last month, and his supporters -- including a survivor of one of the shootings attributed to him -- urged Gov. Rick Perry and the state Board of Pardons and Parole to grant clemency. The state Criminal Appeals Court denied his last appeal on Wednesday.

Stroman, 41, made national headlines after he fatally shot Vasudev Patel during a shooting rampage after the 9/11 attacks. An admitted white supremacist, Stroman targeted those he believed were Middle Eastern, in revenge for the attacks.

A Pakistani man, Waqar Hasan, was also murdered, and a Bangladeshi man, Rais Bhuiyan, was seriously wounded.

Hate crimes that don't actually target your hated group doesn't let you off the hook.

tlchwi02:Mr Guy: I'm honestly sorry you got caught in the brunt of that momma-bear reflex.

why? vigiliantes reap what they sow. they're nearly as bad as the perpetrators of these events. there's a reason richard jewel's name keeps coming up in these threads. i have no sympathy for someone who tries to ruin lives with no proof and faces backlash.

Bluntly, because I'm trying to be a good person, and I don't like it when anyone is unfairly accused. I think the more people who feel obligated to care for everyone being unfairly accused, the better off we're all going to be. I defend Tatsuma's right to be mistaken with good intentions, unless proven otherwise, exactly as vehemently as I defend sunglasses boy in the white hat and track boy.

Tatsuma:Mr Guy: Is it bad that when you posted that the other day, I was halfway tempted to make a macro about posting things sarcastically that will come back to bite you in the ass because people unfairly think you actually are that bad?

Yeah I can appreciate the irony of me making a sarcastic comment mocking people who were assuming that these guys were guilty based on a couple of pictures and their skins being a couple of shades browner than the average bostonian, and then people using half of that statement in order to accuse me and assume I'm a racist by quoting it completely out of context when I was in fact saying the very opposite.

Mr Guy:Bluntly, because I'm trying to be a good person, and I don't like it when anyone is unfairly accused. I think the more people who feel obligated to care for everyone being unfairly accused, the better off we're all going to be. I defend Tatsuma's right to be mistaken with good intentions, unless proven otherwise, exactly as vehemently as I defend sunglasses boy in the white hat and track boy.

there's nothing "good intentioned" about dragging some poor innocent kid through the mud without a scrap of reason or evidence and accusing them anonymously of a heinous crime like a dirty coward. i don't care if its because he's a racist, a fool or just a run of the mill scumbag. he's getting far less than what he deserves when people boo him.

I've read an article from Human Rights First that claims that because Muslim families tend to be recent immigrants, the number of reported Anti-Muslim incidents tend to be heavily under-reported or under-recorded. The Human Rights First Article also asserted that some estimates pegged the number of actual incidents to be something like 20 incidents for each reported incident.

give me doughnuts:James!: give me doughnuts: James!: give me doughnuts: James!: Tatsuma: This is bullshiat, as far as I can remember you had a huge total of two violent attacks on minorities in the aftermath of 9/11

RexTalionis:give me doughnuts: The anti-Muslim sentiment spiked after 9/11 and then settled down, the anti-Jewish bias remains pretty steady at about 6:1.

I've read an article from Human Rights First that claims that because Muslim families tend to be recent immigrants, the number of reported Anti-Muslim incidents tend to be heavily under-reported or under-recorded. The Human Rights First Article also asserted that some estimates pegged the number of actual incidents to be something like 20 incidents for each reported incident.

Oh, wait, it wasn't Human Rights First, although I did find a link from Human Rights First that stated that incidents of hate crimes against Muslims were highly under-reported globally (though did not break out numbers for the US).

"The number of reported crimes also shows that the numbers have stayed elevated in the years to follow. From 1992 to 2000, one anti-Muslim hate crime was reported every 15 days. From 2002 to 2009, that rate has stayed steady at one every three days.

"9/11 had had a lasting effect," Peek said. "This really is the new normal."

Another disturbing trend, she said, is that hate crimes are typically underreported, particularly among immigrant communities. Peek said some estimates put the number as high as 20 to 30 actual hate crimes occur for every one reported."

Mr Guy:Tatsuma: I stated multiple times that those were based on CNN/crowd-sourced forensics and we should wait until the FBI spoke on the subject to take them as concrete, though, so even then I realized that this might very well be wrong, so in light of that, I apologize for repeating these incorrect claims, because we should know better than to take instant reports at face value, especially given the level of effort I have put into correcting biased reporting during conflicts in the Middle East.

Tatsuma: Literally the worst thing that I said before that was 'Well it seems to be the most compelling cased made by the internet forensic crowd'. It's insulting to be called a racist where there is not a single whiff of racism anywhere there.

You've got a right to be offended for being accused of racism. I was trying to be careful not to make that mistake, although I think you are stripping your own quotes out of the context of the overall narrative. You are right, you were careful to report everything second hand. The impression we've all gotten is that you were also careful to bring those claims up quickly over, and over again, after people pointed out discrepancies between the individuals you were posting and the individuals being looked for. At that point, people used their own stereotyping to decide your apparent eagerness to believe the crowd sourcing was racially motivated. I agree that's not fair to you.

If it turns out these guys were even remotely involved, I'll be more than happy to publicly apologize for calling you out.

Nope, the NY Post is backing off. I wonder if they will publish a retraction on the front page tomorrow? hahahaha, I kill me.

Like I said: Hyperbole much? Were there any more than a few hundred people who "lost their shiat" over the community center that never even got built?

RexTalionis:give me doughnuts: The anti-Muslim sentiment spiked after 9/11 and then settled down, the anti-Jewish bias remains pretty steady at about 6:1.

I've read an article from Human Rights First that claims that because Muslim families tend to be recent immigrants, the number of reported Anti-Muslim incidents tend to be heavily under-reported or under-recorded. The Human Rights First Article also asserted that some estimates pegged the number of actual incidents to be something like 20 incidents for each reported incident.

I'm going to stick with actual numbers of reported and investigated incidents rather than some group that says, "...but the real numbers are much higher."

Even their "they've been cleared" is bullshiat. "2 men probed by Feds"? They'd better have some damn good proof that these 2 were ever "probed". They weren't. They were suspects on 4chan, which as far as I know is not a part of the FBI.

Somebody needs to get frickin sued. Libel laws don't protect against malicious lies, and being on a public street does not make one a "public figure".

I've read an article from Human Rights First that claims that because Muslim families tend to be recent immigrants, the number of reported Anti-Muslim incidents tend to be heavily under-reported or under-recorded. The Human Rights First Article also asserted that some estimates pegged the number of actual incidents to be something like 20 incidents for each reported incident.

I'm going to stick with actual numbers of reported and investigated incidents rather than some group that says, "...but the real numbers are much higher."

According to DOJ research, the FBI's official numbers aren't even all that reliable to begin with.

"The real number of hate crimes in the United States is more than 15 times higher than FBI statistics reflect, according to a stunning new government report.

Hate crime statistics published by the FBI since 1992, based on voluntary reports from law enforcement agencies around the country, have shown annual totals of about 6,000 to 10,000, depending on the year. But the new report, "Hate Crimes Reported by Victims and Police," found an average annual total of 191,000 hate crimes. That means the real level of hate crime runs between 19 and 31 times higher than the numbers that have been officially reported for almost 15 years."

I've read an article from Human Rights First that claims that because Muslim families tend to be recent immigrants, the number of reported Anti-Muslim incidents tend to be heavily under-reported or under-recorded. The Human Rights First Article also asserted that some estimates pegged the number of actual incidents to be something like 20 incidents for each reported incident.

I'm going to stick with actual numbers of reported and investigated incidents rather than some group that says, "...but the real numbers are much higher."

According to DOJ research, the FBI's official numbers aren't even all that reliable to begin with.

"The real number of hate crimes in the United States is more than 15 times higher than FBI statistics reflect, according to a stunning new government report.

Hate crime statistics published by the FBI since 1992, based on voluntary reports from law enforcement agencies around the country, have shown annual totals of about 6,000 to 10,000, depending on the year. But the new report, "Hate Crimes Reported by Victims and Police," found an average annual total of 191,000 hate crimes. That means the real level of hate crime runs between 19 and 31 times higher than the numbers that have been officially reported for almost 15 years."

Do you have a link to the report? The SPLC's press release didn't have one.

I've read an article from Human Rights First that claims that because Muslim families tend to be recent immigrants, the number of reported Anti-Muslim incidents tend to be heavily under-reported or under-recorded. The Human Rights First Article also asserted that some estimates pegged the number of actual incidents to be something like 20 incidents for each reported incident.

I'm going to stick with actual numbers of reported and investigated incidents rather than some group that says, "...but the real numbers are much higher."

According to DOJ research, the FBI's official numbers aren't even all that reliable to begin with.

"The real number of hate crimes in the United States is more than 15 times higher than FBI statistics reflect, according to a stunning new government report.

Hate crime statistics published by the FBI since 1992, based on voluntary reports from law enforcement agencies around the country, have shown annual totals of about 6,000 to 10,000, depending on the year. But the new report, "Hate Crimes Reported by Victims and Police," found an average annual total of 191,000 hate crimes. That means the real level of hate crime runs between 19 and 31 times higher than the numbers that have been officially reported for almost 15 years."

Do you have a link to the report? The SPLC's press release didn't have one.

I've read an article from Human Rights First that claims that because Muslim families tend to be recent immigrants, the number of reported Anti-Muslim incidents tend to be heavily under-reported or under-recorded. The Human Rights First Article also asserted that some estimates pegged the number of actual incidents to be something like 20 incidents for each reported incident.

I'm going to stick with actual numbers of reported and investigated incidents rather than some group that says, "...but the real numbers are much higher."

According to DOJ research, the FBI's official numbers aren't even all that reliable to begin with.

"The real number of hate crimes in the United States is more than 15 times higher than FBI statistics reflect, according to a stunning new government report.

Hate crime statistics published by the FBI since 1992, based on voluntary reports from law enforcement agencies around the country, have shown annual totals of about 6,000 to 10,000, depending on the year. But the new report, "Hate Crimes Reported by Victims and Police," found an average annual total of 191,000 hate crimes. That means the real level of hate crime runs between 19 and 31 times higher than the numbers that have been officially reported for almost 15 years."

Do you have a link to the report? The SPLC's press release didn't have one.

http://bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/hcrvp.pdf

Here you go, straight from the Bureau of Justice Statistics.

Rats. No breakdown of the major groupings.So I guess I'll just multiply all the numbers from the NCIC by 15. It doesn't change the ratios.