Hmm. So if they can set the precedent that pensions are, in fact, a form of property that a person has 'bought' by paying a portion of their paycheck into it...what does that do to all the companies that threw out their pensions and left their retirees with nothing?

Dalrint:Hmm. So if they can set the precedent that pensions are, in fact, a form of property that a person has 'bought' by paying a portion of their paycheck into it...what does that do to all the companies that threw out their pensions and left their retirees with nothing?

Dalrint:Hmm. So if they can set the precedent that pensions are, in fact, a form of property that a person has 'bought' by paying a portion of their paycheck into it...what does that do to all the companies that threw out their pensions and left their retirees with nothing?

Chapters 11 and/or 13. The Shareholders' right to maximized profit is not to be suborned to mere contract law or morality.

Dalrint:Hmm. So if they can set the precedent that pensions are, in fact, a form of property that a person has 'bought' by paying a portion of their paycheck into it...what does that do to all the companies that threw out their pensions and left their retirees with nothing?

It's different when a company does it - it's not part of the constitution.

Liabilities are legal debts, parties renege on them sometimes. It is very strange.

:)

When the government reneges on a debt, it undermines the fundamentals of a fiat monetary system. Or you're an indigenous ethnic minority.

Fed, yes. State gov't. Not so much.

To an extent. Obviously the dollar isn't going to fail because of Illinois, but as far as local stuff goes, I would be very leery about taking any kind of IOU from the Illinois government. Everything would need to be paid up front, before delivering any services. It certainly doesn't lend itself to getting things done.

Mercutio74:Brick-House: Isn't it a biatch when you run out of other peoples money.

Probably about the same amount of a biatch as it is to agree to a contract without a plan to hold up your end of it.

This is how these contract negotiations work.

Politician: The state can't afford to give raises and pension increases.

Union: Well if you don't we will withdraw our $upport for you, tell our members not to vote for you, and not give your idiot brother in law a no show job. Oh and leak to our members in the press what you do with your free time away from the wife.

Mercutio74:Saiga410: That should be fun given the constitutionally mandated flat income tax.

Ooooh, this is a right wing talking point I haven't encountered yet. Please elaborate.

SECTION 3. LIMITATIONS ON INCOME TAXATION (a) A tax on or measured by income shall be at anon-graduated rate. At any one time there may be no more thanone such tax imposed by the State for State purposes onindividuals and one such tax so imposed on corporations. Inany such tax imposed upon corporations the rate shall notexceed the rate imposed on individuals by more than a ratioof 8 to 5.

Saiga410:Mercutio74: Saiga410: That should be fun given the constitutionally mandated flat income tax.

Ooooh, this is a right wing talking point I haven't encountered yet. Please elaborate.

SECTION 3. LIMITATIONS ON INCOME TAXATION (a) A tax on or measured by income shall be at anon-graduated rate. At any one time there may be no more thanone such tax imposed by the State for State purposes onindividuals and one such tax so imposed on corporations. Inany such tax imposed upon corporations the rate shall notexceed the rate imposed on individuals by more than a ratioof 8 to 5.

under a mountain:So I guess the Union just expects the State to create the money out of thin air?

Oh wait they'll just raise taxes.

Honest question: shouldn't the state have been putting money aside for these pensions? It's not like the capitol building burned down. This is an obligation that they've had literally decades to prepare for.

Politician: The state can't afford to give raises and pension increases.

Union: Well if you don't we will withdraw our $upport for you, tell our members not to vote for you, and not give your idiot brother in law a no show job. Oh and leak to our members in the press what you do with your free time away from the wife.

Politician: Ok it seems your demands are reasonable after all.

I've never given people a pass for being spineless and I'm not really encouraged to start now. Besides, what are the unions going to do? Vote Republican? Yeah... that'll show... umm... those unions.

palelizard:To an extent. Obviously the dollar isn't going to fail because of Illinois, but as far as local stuff goes, I would be very leery about taking any kind of IOU from the Illinois government. Everything would need to be paid up front, before delivering any services. It certainly doesn't lend itself to getting things done.

I didn't know for certain if we would all be here enjoy this but between the chronic underfunding, the promise of impossible return rates, the occasional raiding, and the frenzied purchase of garbage securities, the show started early.