Doing 1/3 to 1/2 the damage of a dps class feels pretty shitty, why does it bother anyone if a tank can do comparable dps? Without actually tanking and thus getting vengeance our damage is low, so its not like you can get 8 tanks and 2 healers and succeed.

Doing 1/3 to 1/2 the damage of a dps class feels pretty shitty, why does it bother anyone if a tank can do comparable dps? Without actually tanking and thus getting vengeance our damage is low, so its not like you can get 8 tanks and 2 healers and succeed.

"B-but, why bring DPS? Bring more tanks because they can do more DPS anyway." - 90% of the people crying about vengeance.

While the grand majority of the heroic raiders are happy that their tank is able to pump out big damage and big healing if they know how to. People see tanks do retarded damage in heroic fights in Method or Blood Legions video's and get all cranky.

And they forget that almost no fight, even while one-tanking, gives you insane amounts of vengeance. Except for what I noted in my first comment in this thread Zerg strat Dark Animus or Ra-den.

I tanked hc Durumu solo on my alt Paladin. Since I am still busy with making the playstyle muscle-memory like I do on my DK I didn't cheese vengeance. And I never in the fight hit the 200k vengeance mark. Which makes the cap on Vengeance useless if you're doing a fight as it should be done without cheesing.

And ofcourse, good luck with DPS trying to "punish" tanks by taking their damage away; get ready for 1h+ dungeon queues again if that actually happens, since a lot of !especially casual tanks will stop tanking. (Not taking away that cheesing should be stopped, that shit is just plain dumb and inverse to the whole tanking philosophy ./sit and voidzones giving Vengeance is too much)

I literally had to rub my eyes and read that again. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume it's not what you meant to say.

Ye, sounds even more odd when you remove half the sentence :P
Threat and stayin alive is the fundamentals of tanking but an very little part of it, atleast for a good tank imo.
If they would pigeonhole tanks into being meat-shields again i think we would see a huge decline in tanks.

I remember the days of tabbing sunders around and frankly, i would rather reroll a dps then going back there :-/

What exactly is the point of complaining about this? Tank damage done = more done to the boss. Aren't we all supposed to be on the same team or something?

Literally 5 posts above yours,

Originally Posted by voidspark

Obviously in a vacuum, given two players who are otherwise equal you would take the player who does more damage. This is the same by the way, of all roles.

Doesn't mean that it's good from game balance POV.

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Originally Posted by celinamuna

Why not ? Because it actually puts responsibilities on tanks besides taunting every 30/60/90 sec and popping CD's every 2 min ?

Let's say the two tanks both did 50% of an average (similar-geared) DPS damage, they would still have to maximize their damage while still actively mitigating incoming damage. I mean, tanks traditionally have had a lot of responsibility even before they did a lot of damage, and before active mitigation was a thing at that. And it's not like tank damage didn't matter prior to Mists either as I claimed earlier.

There is a big difference between the current situation and the tank being an AFK/auto-attack bot pushing taunt every 30 sec.

Let's say the two tanks both did 50% of an average (similar-geared) DPS damage, they would still have to maximize their damage while still actively mitigating incoming damage. I mean, tanks traditionally have had a lot of responsibility even before they did a lot of damage, and before active mitigation was a thing at that. And it's not like tank damage didn't matter prior to Mists either as I claimed earlier.

There is a big difference between the current situation and the tank being an AFK/auto-attack bot pushing taunt every 30 sec.

They might've had more responsibility, but for half of those fights you could've set up timed macro (ohh noez, botting raids) or even cast sequence macro + weights on keyboard and you would've been adequate.

And I am yet to see a real reason why tanks doing high dmg is bad for game balance. (Go ahead, bring in 25 tanks and tell me how much dmg they do)
If dps have problem with other classes doing high dps boy oh boy, i'm sure fights like dreamwalker piss em off.
Plus again, if we do fix "omg, tanks doing > 50% of our dps" we're going going to look at disc / mistweaver and discuss why healers are dpsing.

And I am yet to see a real reason why tanks doing high dmg is bad for game balance.

Makes balance at both high and low AP a nightmare. Makes people in group simply feel less important. Tank was already important before he was 300% of the rest of the raid's damage, now basically he's superman. It's sort of ironic that Ghostcrawler's own response was "can't underwrite their contributions" in regards to a raid.

Don't get me wrong most of the times when I tank a random run I have no problem ending up high-top DPS, on a personal level at this point I have nothing against it (I don't DPS raids anymore, a partial reason being that I'm never asked), but well, when the OP class is having fun, usually no one else is.

Aside: while I stand by my opinion that vengeance contribution needs to be drastically reduced (at least at high ends), overall tank mechanics are way more positive in 5.0 than Cataclysm. In any case all my opinions pretty much are 6.0 on at this point. Hopefully Blizzard has some nice ideas in store for that.

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Originally Posted by Joakim

When i play any tank i have, i feel no need to do alot of DPS, not at all. I just want to take minimum damage and keep aggro on everything im supposed to take aggro from.

Doubt they'd be able to push transitions fast enough. And even if they could, not sure how that's a problem when we have a raid with 25 warlocks clearing HoF.

"OHHAMAGAD A DEEPEES IS TANKING AND HEALING, NURF NAO"

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Originally Posted by voidspark

Makes balance at both high and low AP a nightmare. Makes people in group simply feel less important. Tank was already important before he was 300% of the rest of the raid's damage, now basically he's superman. It's sort of ironic that Ghostcrawler's own response was "can't underwrite their contributions" in regards to a raid.

Don't get me wrong most of the times when I tank a random run I have no problem ending up high-top DPS, on a personal level at this point I have nothing against it (I don't DPS raids anymore, a partial reason being that I'm never asked), but well, when the OP class is having fun, usually no one else is.

Aside: while I stand by my opinion that vengeance contribution needs to be drastically reduced (at least at high ends), overall tank mechanics are way more positive in 5.0 than Cataclysm. In any case all my opinions pretty much are 6.0 on at this point. Hopefully Blizzard has some nice ideas in store for that.

/shrug even when i do lfr on my poopy geared rogue i don't go "ohh look, i was #2 on dps behind a tank, i'm a terrible dps, he's op tank, i'm depressed and going to go cry in the corner"
Instead i just look at the fight, if it's one of the fights where i know a tank "can" (can != will) out dps me, coolbeans, i'm top damage dealer.
If it's the fight when he can't, ohh noez, i lost to another player.
Just like (even tho mmo-champ community loves to) i don't throw a giant {shit|rage}storm every time another class out dps me.

Did not read that many of these post. But I will always stand by the fact that tanks are meat shields that take damage.

If they made it so we need 0 damage but had the ability to hold every thing that would be cool with me. Sure this wont happen seeing as we still need to kill stuff. But still if they added a % buff to threat and killed our dps that would be fine with me.