Originally posted by badmedia
Such as the fact you can not generate a random number with logic. That's a fact, widely known and scientifically accepted/proven.

What is Random ?

Result of our inability to calculate all possible interactions in complex enough systems ?

And, yet, there is simple algorithm (logic) which can run on ordinary calculator and it's capable to generate perfectly random digits of PI
all the way to infinity, go figure

The reason it is called pseudo-random is because we are able to calculate and create random numbers which are random enough to people. Such as the
example you have given.

But the reason they are pseudo-random numbers and are not actually random numbers is because they are 100% predictable. Meaning, each and every time
a number is generated, the number is predictable, and is thus not really random.

Most languages have a random() function of some sort, and if not you can easily find a random number generator function to use. Such is not the
issue at all. Again, they are random enough to use in programs, I do it often. Generate a random number between 1-10, and you can make something
easily happen like 60% of the time by saying if the number is greater than 6, do this.

But again, not a truly random number.

So basically, you make the point that people can be fooled by such things. But chin up - I was surprised when I found out as well, and I used random
numbers for years.

I'm sorry, maybe it's the fact that it's very late and I'm very tired or maybe I'm a little slow right now, but I had absolutely no idea what it
is that you are referring to. Was it one of the quotes that I posted, the whole thing, or the general subject of this thread?

It was towards your quote which is using what people do in the name of god as being a representation of god.

I'm not sure really what else to say other than to repeat the post, which would be of no use obviously.

Now for my humble additions. I'm not an Atheist, but I think they might fit in this thread.

Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But
whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings -- that doctrine
believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.
~ Buddha

No iron chain, or outward force of any kind, can ever compel the soul of a person to believe or to disbelieve.
~ Thomas Carlyle

Let us be easy and impersonal, not forever fingering over our own souls, and the souls of our acquaintances, but trying to create a new life, a new
common life, a new complete tree of life from the roots that are within us.
~ D. H. Lawrence

I can't help but throw this in too though.

Logic, like whiskey, loses its beneficial effect when taken in too large quantities.
~ Lord Dunsany

I’m going to try and counter those quotes, from a Godly perspective, with some counter quote replies, to those great men

Originally posted by Alaskan Man

“Question with boldness even the existence of God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded
fear.”
Thomas Jefferson

Question with boldness, that the theory of “Big bang” and everything in creation and the entire universe, just happened by chance!

Originally posted by Alaskan Man

“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods,
you will understand why I dismiss yours.”
Stephen Roberts

I am not an atheist. Don’t mince your words, you do not believe in any God. When you understand why you dismiss a possible God, you will understand
why I dismiss your possibility, of there being no God.

Originally posted by Alaskan Man

“I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world.”
Richard Dawkins

I am not against anyone, because I am religious, and I still don’t understand the world, who does?

Originally posted by Alaskan Man
“An atheist is a man who has no invisible means of support.”
John Buchan

I man who believes in God has invisible support, but it doesn’t always help lol

Atheists are the most close minded group of people I have encountered. There are a LOT of close minded religious people but I have never met a
religious person who would not admit their religion was FAITH BASED. It is the RARE Atheist that will admit theirs is a FAITH BASED belief system. Not
very open minded on that subject it seems.

The other thing about Atheists that is troubling is that they keep muttering some cliched mantra about "Religion is the cause of all wars". They
kind of flip out when you confront them with the fact that Atheists have genocidally killed 1/4 to 1/3 billion people during the last 100 years (the
ONLY 100 years they've even been players). The TRUTH is, during the last 100 years, Atheists have killed more people than all of the wars in ALL of
man's history.... COMBINED!

But the religious do not go about saying, "Atheism is the cause of all wars".
Why is that?

The whole Wiccan thing about the usefulness of evil to teach us really is sophmoric. Mankind did not learn anything from Hitler that lasted beyond the
generation that fought him. Do we need a Hitler for EVERY generation? There needs to be something inside of us that intuitively knows what is evil.
Does anyone here need to watch me skin my cat alive to know that it is evil?

Richard Dawkins is great at writing platitudes, and with his arrogant tone he seems to be "one great intellect". However,
Dawkins will NOT publicly debate Deists.
Like Obama with his tele-prompters and staged press conferences, Dawkins does not like to face the unknown so much.
He says he does not want to lend credibility to the fools he'd debate.
Not very open minded about that it seems.
But you are right; that IS one damn good platitude.

I am atheist. I won't apologize or try to be sensitive to the religious folks here because of what the religious institutions of this world truly
represent.

I won't argue because religious people see only what they want to see and nobody can change that.

I do not completely dismiss all the possibilities but is it highly improbable that human history occurred the way christian historians claim.

We may have been created in some fashion by an intelligent being, but the reality is nobody "knows" despite their claims.

I understand the human need for answers to the big questions, but submitting to a set of ideals (in my opinion) is giving up on the quest to true
enlightenment.

Spirituality to me is the quest for knowledge and understanding. Every time I open a book or learn a new skill, I feel a sense of understanding which
connects me to life in a way that make me feel more complete.

Giulian Buzila -"History teaches us that no other cause has brought more death than the word of god."

Cool thread, and awesome quotes. I completely agree with all of them. Its nice to see some people who are atheist on here. Will post more after
reading some more of the thread! And i'll post some quotes once I find some good ones

“Question with boldness even the existence of God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of
blindfolded fear.”Thomas Jefferson

This quote cannot be considered along the lines of strict Atheism. If anything it is Agnostic in it's approach. It doesn't rule out the existence of
God, simply focusing on the human approach to the divine and how we attribute human qualities (deficiencies) to God.

Those quotes are somethig else..lol.. They are very thought provoking and I am a believer. But their really is a lot of truth in them and I really
like them.

All of them were/are brilliant men. While I disagree with their point of view, I accept and respect what they believe. I just hope
others can do the same, I love opposing views, because only through opposing views can the truth be reached.

O yea! S&F

A believers 2 cents

Peace,
~TheMythLives

[edit on Jul 12th 2009 by TheMythLives]

If there really is at least one objective, verifiable truth it is this - there is no truth.

There are different sides to an argument, not because one or the other is true - but usually because they are both valid within different frames of
reference, or conditions. In simple terms - they both have truth in them.

To take one point of view like a fanatic is to fail to understand the complexity of reality.

Truth is simply a fragment from a piece of knowledge - to retain the original knowledge unaltered, and make use of all its practical applications
(without denying any) is to demonstrate understanding.

I am an agnostic because atheism is a set of rigid beliefs, in the same way religion is a set of beliefs.

It is the act of believing (anything) that I disagree with. Reality is not so simple that we can divide day from night like a god.

EDIT: Just to add a thought.

If there are three people, one believe there is a God, one believes there is no God, and one who believes both possibilities - there is only one of
them who is ALWAYS going to be right, no matter what the 'ultimate' truth is.

Of course someone will quote scripture saying, "The devils also believe and tremble .. " - somewhere in the new testament.

The aim isn't to be right - but to create harmony, to awaken kinship and to break down barriers that exist not physically upon the earth, but rather
within the minds of those who are trapped by belief.

Originally posted by iTz C1oCKWoRK
Science Flies You To The Moon, Religion Flies You Into Buildings!

Right, and science creates nukes, tanks and things to fly into buildings.

Tell me, what religion was behind Stalin and the million people he killed?

When are people going to get sick of such low levels of thinking? Aren't we kind of beyond selective perspectives now? Can we start to look at
the actions themselves and making our choices based on that, rather than labels?

Dawkins! Come one, that dude get's right on my chapped ass! I tried to read 2 of his books, the God Delusion and his oxford book of science or
something.

In the God Delusion, he unequivacally states that people need a 'God' so they can feel comfortable in their life, that's fair enough, his opinion,
but he then goes onto say that people need to realise that God doesn't exist and we need SCIENCE! to take over!!!

My God (Sorry, lol), let's replace one belief system with another!

In his Oxford book of Science (lol, can't remember name, it was a long'n) in his PREFACE! he states that Science has pretty much found everything
there is to find, we just need to explain it. I shut the book there and then, that man woudn't know truth if it bit him on his ass, the only way he
would see truth is if it agreed with him.

As for quotes, don't really know many.

"Religion needs a God, God does not need a Religion."

"Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do
not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your
teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations.

But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then
accept it and live up to it."

-- Buddha

Lighthouses are more helpful then churches.

- Benjamin Franklin

I believe in God, only I spell it Nature.

- Frank Lloyd Wright

And one for Good luck:

A knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate, of the manifestations of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty - it
is this knowledge and this emotion that constitute the truly religious attitude; in this sense, and in this alone, I am a deeply religious
man.

Atheist quotes? I am not an atheist myself nor do I believe in any known religion. However I do believe there is Order in the Universe and a Force
behind ALL so I consider myself to be someone who's a multi-religious philosopher.

Your 4 quotes made me think of someone I admired much, Theo

Theo van Gogh was a wellknown Dutch writer / journalist / filmmaker and convinced Atheist. He more tried to live like a God then believing in one.

4 of his qoutes I like very much are:

- As soon as you sit down to write about something you are pressing your nose deeper into the sewer of facts.

- My use of language is part and parcel of my message.

- Originally I thought that writing articles would keep me from having to see a psychiatrist, but I became even more depressed as a result.

Ah, I hope to live to 87 and drink from the the goblet of life to the dregs.

It wasn't given to him to live to 87, on November 2nd 2004 he was killed (stabbed) to death on his way from home to a meeting because people didn't
agree with him on the issue of 'Freedom of Speech'.

Excellent quotations, OP, thank you. Jefferson not an atheist, I don't think (as has been pointed out), but I guess the argument is good whichever
side he was on.

I do wish this sort of thread could be less polarizing, I must say. Agnostics don't tend to get much of a look in, do they? I don't ever quite
understand passionate atheism. Isn't that rather like getting passionate about not believing in Father Christmas? I don't mean that as a glib
comparison between religious faith and childish myth - merely to point out the nonsense inherent in being passionate about something you DON'T
believe in. I don't listen to hip hop. But I don't passionately not listen to hip hop.

My position. I'm not an atheist. I don't necessary believe in an omnipotent being. But if pushed I would say it is reasonable to assume that there
is some sort of purpose begind the universe, in which it is unclear whether we as individuals are a relevant or significant part. My own view is that
it is hard to hold a reasoned view that contradicts that philosophy.

"Dude, for funks sake why on earth can't you miss 2 sundays in a row ? It's gods freaking day off, the last thing he wants is you and a billion
other really sorry people, whinging in his ear all afternoon.

Get your god fearing arse out training and speak to him tomorrow, he'll probably be in a better mood and strike me with lighting for not listening to
you. "

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