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Topic: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused (Read 13950 times)

If I know someone is coming over, the first thing I do is clean the bathroom, on the assumption that it will be needed. The dining table will probably be buried, the kitchen counters almost as bad, and we can hope that the floors will have been vacuumed. Forget dusting. But, darn it, the toilet will be clean.

If this is a person whom I have visited before, I'd assume that there was some kind of embarrassing disaster. I'd kind of hope it could be told as a funny story later, if only to satify my curiousity, but wouldn't worry about it otherwise. If this was a new situation, or if it becomes a habit, I'd have to weigh the person's virtues versus the trouble of planning to find a public restroom.

Regarding having the police or firemen in my messy house: been there, done that, wondered if I could even tell if anything was stolen. Someone broke into my house, and the police went from room to room making sure the burglar wasn't there. This was soon after I inherited the house, and it was still packed full of my mother's Stuff. Yes, it was embarrassing to have strangers wandering around the Pit, but better to be embarrassed than scared or injured by a hostile stranger.

Sorry, I didn't realise it wasn't commonly used. NyaChan is right, a tip means messy. It's another name for a rubbish dump- as in the rubbish is tipped there by the bin lorry.

That sounds bad, but it's just an expression. When I came back from the coffee shop the front door was open and the hall and stairs were clear so I'm not worried about her getting swamped by bags of rubbish and needing help or anything.

But yeah, MeowMixer, I was tipped off by her body language when she came to the door too, which is why I offered to to go to the coffee shop.

I have used her bathroom before, it was just an issue this time.

I really posted just for points of view, I've never came across this scenario before. The different opinions on the thread make fascinating reading, there's lots of points that wouldn't have occurred to me.

There are people who are hoarders who can clean up parts of their house when they are expecting company. Perhaps this woman is a hoarder and just didn't have time to clean up for this particular visit, or didn't think the OP would need to come in and therefore didn't clean.

There are people who aren't hoarders, but who are as messy as hoarders--their houses would look just like a hoarder's house to someone who watches the hoarding TV shows. (The difference is that they *can* get rid of things when they get motivated; hoarders struggle with letting go.) Again, they need time to clean the public areas of their houses before they feel comfortable letting anyone in.

Or there was someone else in the house who didn't want to be seen, or who the owner of the house didn't want the OP to see.

There are all sorts of reasons why the OP might not have been allowed in the house.

If the friendship is otherwise a good one, I would not let this blip affect things. I wouldn't forget about it, but I would hold off on judgement. If similar things start to happen repeatedly, then I would start to question the friendship.

But it could be that this woman just had a very bad day, or very bad week, and things fell apart and her house was a total disaster area. I wouldn't want to end a friendship over that. Heaven knows, I've had a total disaster area of a house more than once, myself.

Barring the facilities not working or some kind of disaster, I think there's something cruel about denying a friend in need the use of them and I'd be questioning a friendship with anyone who did this to me. And if you know a friend is coming over, how difficult is it to quickly clean the bathroom - or at least the lav - beforehand if untidyness/mess is an embarrasment (and if it's that embarrassing, why not do it anyway and keep it clean in the first place?)

The only other explanation I can think of is that the friend is some kind of germ-phobic; again, I'd be questioning a friendship with someone like that too.

"Had a friend of mine, a friend mind you - not a random stranger, refused to let me use their bathroom when I asked, ESPECIALLY if I was pregnant...I would ride my little bicycle over to the coffee shop - and keep right on riding. That would be the end of the friendship for me."

This sort of thing saddens me, because the situation leads me to consider that such a thing might be justified given emergent circumstances. I agree that it's really unusual to refuse an expected friend access to the facilities, but I've been in the position to understand completely how it can be reasonable. I once had a friend visiting who went into my bathroom, and quite a while later had not returned. I'll spare you the details of what happened in there but when I heard her sobbing through the door and finally convinced her to let me in to help her, the room looked bad enough that I won't describe it at all. To answer gramma dishes's query about how long it could take to freshen up a bathroom this example shows that it could easily have happened quickly and could not be rectified on the spot, and the thing that lets Aoife's friend off the hook for one instance is that there was an alternative and Aoife even mentioned it. So, given all of this together, the condition of the room might have risen past "messy" to "humiliating" and so I'd give a friend a pass for refusing access to the loo without explanation as long as it wasn't repeated.

Virg

The bolded is exactly my thought. I could list 100 things that are gross that could excuse the friend. She could have had any number of accidents that she did not have time to clean up. I see people considering ending a friendship or cooling the relationship and it seems so extreme over a simple declined bathroom. Yes, OP was pregnant and I can totally see being slightly miffed at first just because of the inconvenience. But I try to always think the best of my friends and I would have given friend a bit of grace and assumed it must be pretty horrible if she would send a pregnant friend away rather than let her in.

How long does it take to straighten up a bathroom at least well enough that you wouldn't be embarrassed to let your pregnant friend use it? It's not like she's the Queen of England or Martha Stewart or the photographer from House Beautiful or something.

For me? Well, the downstairs toilet is at the back of the house, so first, depending on the day and how I've been travelling, I'd have to clean up the hall way, and the lounge and then the dining room, and the kitchen, and the laundry including all the clothes on the floor there, but my toilet is cleanish, so say 3-4 days to get it to a point that I wouldn't be worried they'd injure themselves. I am a very messy person and sometimes my house is worse than others depending on my workload, my son and whether I have enough energy to clean (I have an illness that makes me extremely tired so that going to work usually uses all the energy I have in a day)

As an example, while watching the boston bombers being hunted they announced on TV that the police would be going house to house searching for him inside and out. I realised that if that ever happened to me I would demand to see their warrant and then refuse them entry, not because I believe in my civil rights or anything, but because I would prefer the chance of a homicidal maniac over the embarrassment of having the police enter my home when it is at it's worst. At least the homicidal maniac isn't expecting it to be clean and I'm not inviting him in.

So absolutely I would refuse entry to a friend if there was any other option for them. And I have refused entry to my mother when she asked to use the toilet once as she is the most judgmental person I know. If there was no other option and it was a bad mess day, I'd probably let them in but may never contact them again due to my embarrassment.

One thing to factor in, if what you're worried about is what they'll think of you:

They will be FAR more likely to overlook the mess in your house than they will your lack of hospitality.

I know I would! I understand mess; heck, my home looks crappy most of the time. And, your mess is not any rudeness to ME. And so there's nothing to "forgive" or "overlook."

But I would have a hard time forgiving the rudeness of making me go somewhere else to find a potty. Because that is a lack of basic hospitality to ME.

So if you're worried what people think of you: Don't be afraid to be messy in front of them. But DO be hesitant to be unhospitable to them.

"Had a friend of mine, a friend mind you - not a random stranger, refused to let me use their bathroom when I asked, ESPECIALLY if I was pregnant...I would ride my little bicycle over to the coffee shop - and keep right on riding. That would be the end of the friendship for me."

This sort of thing saddens me, because the situation leads me to consider that such a thing might be justified given emergent circumstances. I agree that it's really unusual to refuse an expected friend access to the facilities, but I've been in the position to understand completely how it can be reasonable. I once had a friend visiting who went into my bathroom, and quite a while later had not returned. I'll spare you the details of what happened in there but when I heard her sobbing through the door and finally convinced her to let me in to help her, the room looked bad enough that I won't describe it at all. To answer gramma dishes's query about how long it could take to freshen up a bathroom this example shows that it could easily have happened quickly and could not be rectified on the spot, and the thing that lets Aoife's friend off the hook for one instance is that there was an alternative and Aoife even mentioned it. So, given all of this together, the condition of the room might have risen past "messy" to "humiliating" and so I'd give a friend a pass for refusing access to the loo without explanation as long as it wasn't repeated.

Virg

The bolded is exactly my thought. I could list 100 things that are gross that could excuse the friend. She could have had any number of accidents that she did not have time to clean up. I see people considering ending a friendship or cooling the relationship and it seems so extreme over a simple declined bathroom. Yes, OP was pregnant and I can totally see being slightly miffed at first just because of the inconvenience. But I try to always think the best of my friends and I would have given friend a bit of grace and assumed it must be pretty horrible if she would send a pregnant friend away rather than let her in.

My thought too. From experience, I can say that having my cat's litter box in the downstairs bathroom, delicates soaking to wash in that sink, and the rest of my dirty laundry hamper in the upstairs bathroom; there have definitely been times when I would have told a friend they were all out of order if the friend had already offered to go elsewhere.

I think it's a bit odd, but offering to go elsewhere, kind of puts this in a weird category since it basically says to the friend the need is not urgent. On the other hand, if the OP had shown up and said I've been caught short I really need to use your bathroom, it would be, in my mind, extremely rude to decline if the facilities were working. Even if the house is a mess, leaving a friend to have an accident on your doorstep to avoid them seeing that your house is a mess is, I think, extremely rude.

If your (generic you) house is so messy that you'd rather a friend have an accident on your doorstep than to clean it enough for them to enter, it seems a good hint that it's time to do something. Alternatively, you should go to extreme lengths to ensure the situation never arises, such as never having them meet you at your home.

If they deny you access, is it rude to say, do you mind if I just go behind the bush there, or can you bring a chamber pot out to me?

Assuming the real problem was a messy house/bathroom, may I say that - to me - the arrangement OP and her friend had doesn't imply a visit to the house? To me, it looked more like: ehy, come pick me up and let's go to the easy cycle road. When someone is picking me up, I don't expect him/her to come in my house. Probably I'd be waiting at the door with my jacket and purse. So, I wouldn't think of cleaning my bathroom.

Although, if my pregnant friend is having a 30 minutes walk for my convenience, well...I'd be waiting her holding a glass of fresh water and offering to stop at my place.

I have a friend that I meet only out and about. Honestly, I have seen her home and I wouldn't eat there or use her bathroom. It could have been one of those places only the OP's friend knows this about herself. My friend on the other hand just thought her place was a tad messy.

Not true in this case--the OP has been in the home about a month ago.

Of course a house can get really messy in a month, but not to hoarding standards yet.

I think it's a bit odd, but offering to go elsewhere, kind of puts this in a weird category since it basically says to the friend the need is not urgent. On the other hand, if the OP had shown up and said I've been caught short I really need to use your bathroom, it would be, in my mind, extremely rude to decline if the facilities were working. Even if the house is a mess, leaving a friend to have an accident on your doorstep to avoid them seeing that your house is a mess is, I think, extremely rude.

POD to this. Generally speaking, I think it's odd to deny a friend who was coming over as scheduled to do something with you, especially without further explanation. Yes, she mentioned the house was messy, but it would have to be "messy" as in biohazard-level for me to understand that as the reason why the OP couldn't use her bathroom.

HOWEVER--the OP immediately offering to go to the coffee shop changes it for me. Yes, she did this because she got a "do not enter" vibe from her friend first, but that gave the friend the perfect opportunity to say no, and she did. The threshold for "why" is much lower for me in this circumstance, allowing for the house to just be sorta kinda messier than she'd like people to see.

And honestly, at that point, if physically possible, I would prefer to use the coffee shop, because I would be thinking, "What does she know about her bathroom that I don't??" :X

Side note: Last time I was denied use of a bathroom it was at the mechanic shop where our car had been towed after getting a flat tire on the highway. It was delicately suggested that my mom and I would be better off walking down the street to the convenience store, because the on-site bathroom was "too manly." Which, from my brief glimpse, was code for grimy, with no door, and pictures of scantily-clad women on the walls. My mom and I were very happy to walk to the store instead!

I have a friend that I meet only out and about. Honestly, I have seen her home and I wouldn't eat there or use her bathroom. It could have been one of those places only the OP's friend knows this about herself. My friend on the other hand just thought her place was a tad messy.

Not true in this case--the OP has been in the home about a month ago.

Of course a house can get really messy in a month, but not to hoarding standards yet.

If you had quoted the rest of my post, you would have also seen that I would trust in my friend's judgment and need for privacy whatever the reason may be. And if that dirty that they don't want to "inflict" that on me, I would appreciate it. Not that I am a wilting flower that faints at messiness. But I am not going to be so offended at being denied and would respect my friend's wish.

In general, if someone had to drive/cycle/walk 30 minutes to my house and then we planned to leave from there for an activity together, I would expect that they would likely need to use my bathroom unless the activity was going to take us to a place with a decent public restroom within 5 minutes. Even non-pregnant people can develop an urgent need over that period of time. And if plans were for them to come back to my house before heading home, I'd expect them to likely want to stop again.

As someone who cycles regularly with a group of women friends, the rides almost always start and end with a potty break at the location we started at, which is often someone's house. Particularly if we don't plan to ride by any public restrooms shortly.