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imported post

Hello R47!

I don't mean to be short but, read this info. and ask for clarification on anything that doesn't then make since to you. Also, always cross reference our publications with a reading of the actual penal code for fuller understanding (or greater confusion as the PC can be a doosieon your first read).

As for the boundary of a city, the city clerk should be able to give or show you a map of their incorporated area. Keep in mind that 12031 alsoregulates "prohibited areas of UNincorporated territory" too.

imported post

I think that carrying a pistol or rifle must be in the trunk of the car, and the ammo

in the passenger compartments, am I right ?

Thanks for your help in advance ! Robin47

If the gun is unloaded and in a locked case it can be transported in a car through school zones etc. in Ca.

As long as you are not in a school zone or prohibited place such as government buildings, you can carry unloaded in California (Pistol in belt holster, no round in chamber, no loaded magazine in gun, but loaded magazines can be in magazine pouches on belt. Do not conceal a magazine in a pocket.) As far as I know there is no specific law in Ca stating that a gun in a car needs to be locked up. California law just says that having a gun unloaded and in a locked case is a legal method of transportation, but does not necessarily limit you from lawfully transporting a firearm in other ways in your vehicle. If you are knowinglyin a school zone of course (or on the roads surrounding the capitol in Sacramento) keeping it unloaded and in a locked case is the only legal method of transporting it.

Federal law also protects you anywhere in the U.S. if it is unloaded and stored in a place inaccessible to the passengers.

Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.

There are a few pamphlets here that some people have made with excellent explanations of the laws. There is a general pamphlet on OC's legality, a pamphlet on "Is it loaded" which includes relevant case law, and also the pamphlet at CaliforniaOpenCarry.org. All three are a must-have. When I visited California I kept all three of them with me at all times. (Of course read the laws yourself too.)

imported post

"Immediate Possession". That means no loaded magzine on your left hip, even though your UNLOADED Gun is on your right hip. So wheres the OC then ?

I couldn't fine the "Is it loaded" Pamphlet, I did read the " California Open Carry".

And one other I found"California-Open Carry No license Required" this is where I found the PC-171e- and the "Immediate Possession", So is this section just

about the Govenors, and capital grounds and areas like that ? Or can the

"Immediate Possession" be used to arrest you if say your driving up into the

mountans in an Unincorporated area , and your unloaded, with a loaded magzine on

your left hip and the gun on your right hip ?

Im not trying to be difficult, I am just gathering Info !

I appreciate all the help I can get. I live in the biggest prison county in the free world Lassen, Ca. But I want to share the pamphlets with the local Gunsmithing class

at the College, and the gun shop in town, also might give it to the local Sheriff

and see what he thinks and It might educate him on our rights too. I use to hunt as a kid some 50 years ago around here and remember most pickup trucks had gun racks and rifles in them, now there are none.

Moved back here some 22 years ago and haven't see no OC-ers ever.

I do know a fellow named Don Bird, from Corning, Ca. who went to the 9th circut

court to have the right to Carry Openly, and was denied. The "Idea" of loaded or unloaded never came up in the Issue.

Im going to get in touch with him and tell him of the "Opencarry.org" site.

imported post

"Immediate Possession". That means no loaded magzine on your left hip, even though your UNLOADED Gun is on your right hip. So wheres the OC then ?

I couldn't find the "Is it loaded" Pamphlet, I did read the " California Open Carry".

And one other I found"California-Open Carry No license Required" this is where I found the PC-171e- and the "Immediate Possession", So is this section just

about the Govenors, and capital grounds and areas like that ? Or can the

"Immediate Possession" be used to arrest you if say your driving up into the

mountans in an Unincorporated area , and your unloaded, with a loaded magzine on

your left hip and the gun on your right hip ?

Im not trying to be difficult, I am just gathering Info !

I appreciate all the help I can get. I live in the biggest prison county in the free world Lassen, Ca. But I want to share the pamphlets with the local Gunsmithing class

at the College, and the gun shop in town, also might give it to the local Sheriff

and see what he thinks and It might educate him on our rights too. I use to hunt as a kid some 50 years ago around here and remember most pickup trucks had gun racks and rifles in them, now there are none.

Moved back here some 22 years ago and haven't see no OC-ers ever.

I do know a fellow named Don Bird, from Corning, Ca. who went to the 9th circut

court to have the right to Carry Openly, and was denied. The "Idea" of loaded or unloaded never came up in the Issue.

Im going to get in touch with him and tell him of the "Opencarry.org" site.

171e applies to 171 c &amp; d only - these sections deal with carrying a loaded firearm on State Capitol grounds, legislative offices, offices and residences of the Governor and other constitutional officers.

Below are the actual Penal Codes with the important parts in bold.

171c. Any person, except a duly appointed peace officer as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2, a full-time paid peace officer of another state or the federal government who is carrying out official duties while in California, any person summoned by any such officer to assist in making arrests or preserving the peace while he is actually engaged in assisting such officer, a member of the military forces of this state or the United States engaged in the performance of his duties, or a person holding a valid license to carry the firearm pursuant to Article 3 (commencing with Section 12050) of Chapter 1 of Title 2 of Part 4, who brings a loaded firearm into, or possesses a loaded firearmwithin, the State Capitol, any legislative office, any office of the Governor or other constitutional officer, or any hearing room in which any committee of the Senate or Assembly is conducting a hearing, or upon the grounds of the State Capitol, which is bounded by 10th, L, 15th, and N Streets in the City of Sacramento, shall be punished by imprisonment in the county jail for a period of not more than one year, a fine of not more than one thousand dollars ($1,000), or both such imprisonment and fine, or by imprisonment in the state prison.

171d. Any person, except a duly appointed peace officer as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2, a full-time paid peace officer of another state or the federal government who is carrying out official duties while in California, any person summoned by that officer to assist in making arrests or preserving the peace while he or she is actually engaged in assisting the officer, a member of the military forces of this state or of the United States engaged in the performance of his or her duties, a person holding a valid license to carry the firearm pursuant to Article 3 (commencing with Section 12050) of Chapter 1 of Title 2 of Part 4, the Governor or a member of his or her immediate family or a person acting with his or her permission with respect to the Governor's Mansion or any other residence of the Governor, any other constitutional officer or a member of his or her immediate family or a person acting with his or her permission with respect to the officer's residence, or a Member of the Legislature or a member of his or her immediate family or a person acting with his or her permission with respect to the Member's residence, shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail for not more than one year, by fine of not more than one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both the fine and imprisonment, or by imprisonment in the state prison, if he or
she does any of the following: (a) Brings a loaded firearm into, or possesses a loaded firearm within, the Governor's Mansion, or any other residence of the Governor, the residence of any other constitutional officer, or the residence of any Member of the Legislature.
(b) Brings a loaded firearm upon, or possesses a loaded firearm upon, the grounds of the Governor's Mansion or any other residence of the Governor, the residence of any other constitutional officer, or the residence of any Member of the Legislature.

171e. A firearm shall be deemed loaded for the purposes of Sections 171c and 171d whenever both the firearm and unexpended ammunition capable of being discharged from such firearm are in the immediate possession of the same person. In order to determine whether or not a firearm is loaded for the purpose of enforcing Section 171c or 171d, peace officers are authorized to examine any firearm carried by anyone on his person or in a vehicle while in any place or on the grounds of any place in or on which the possession of a loaded firearm is prohibited by Section 171c or 171d. Refusal to allow a peace officer to inspect a firearm pursuant to the provisions of this section constitutes probable cause for arrest for violation of Section 171c or 171d.

imported post

We all started out knowing next to nothing about open carry. I for one have an advantage as I have a head for research and an almost butnot quite photographic memory (I sometimes forget to remove the lenscap, and sometimes overexpose the film)

imported post

Being in Cal its like being on the front line, but thats good excitement for old guys.

I have an Idea about, putting a "Letter to the Editer" part in our local paper

about Californias laws on OC-ing, and thought it might be good to have any Citizen and local town police and county Sheriff, whos available to freely come and share in these pamphlets and answer questions about OCing.

What are your thoughts on this Idea ? Think I might be putting the cart before the horse ? Or good public realtions !

Got to sign off tonight, but will be back in the late morning, Thanks again !

imported post

I personally think that would be a GREAT idea! Not only does it make the information more widely available, but how can you use the excuse "well, we didn't know..." when it's circulated in a local newspaper?

Robin47 wrote

I have an Idea about, putting a "Letter to the Editer" part in our local paper

about Californias laws on OC-ing, and thought it might be good to have any Citizen and local town police and county Sheriff, whos available to freely come and share in these pamphlets and answer questions about OCing.

imported post

How do we keep track of local "Municipal Ordnances"?
I found this in the San Diego Municipal code:

§63.08 Possession of Firearms and Other Devices in Parks and Open Space Areas
No persons other than those persons specifically authorized by law or City permit so
to do, shall use, possess, transport, carry, fire, or discharge any fireworks, firearm, air
gun, archery device, slingshot or explosive of any kind across, on, or into any City
park or designated open space area. “Designated open space area” for the purpose of
this section shall mean those open space lands owned by the City and described in
that document on file in the office of the City Clerk as Document No. 17082. The
City Manager shall have the authority to add open space areas to said document as
open space areas are acquired by the City.

...

With regard to, and only with regard to, unloaded firearms, unloaded air guns,
laserscope–equipped guns or devices, archery devices and slingshots, a violation of
this provision shall constitute an infraction with punishment as defined in Section
12.0201 of this Code. All other violations of this section shall constitute a
misdemeanor and be punishable as set forth in Section 12.0201 of this Code.
(Amended 2–22–1994 by O–18035 N.S.)

What's to keep any city from passing local ordnances like this one to keep firearms out of public entirely?

imported post

flintlock tom wrote:

How do we keep track of local "Municipal Ordnances"?
I found this in the San Diego Municipal code:

§63.08 Possession of Firearms and Other Devices in Parks and Open Space Areas
No persons other than those persons specifically authorized by law or City permit so
to do, shall use, possess, transport, carry, fire, or discharge any fireworks, firearm, air
gun, archery device, slingshot or explosive of any kind across, on, or into any City
park or designated open space area. “Designated open space area” for the purpose of
this section shall mean those open space lands owned by the City and described in
that document on file in the office of the City Clerk as Document No. 17082. The
City Manager shall have the authority to add open space areas to said document as
open space areas are acquired by the City.

...

With regard to, and only with regard to, unloaded firearms, unloaded air guns,
laserscope–equipped guns or devices, archery devices and slingshots, a violation of
this provision shall constitute an infraction with punishment as defined in Section
12.0201 of this Code. All other violations of this section shall constitute a
misdemeanor and be punishable as set forth in Section 12.0201 of this Code.
(Amended 2–22–1994 by O–18035 N.S.)

What's to keep any city from passing local ordnances like this one to keep firearms out of public entirely?

Spoke with Jason Davis of TMLLP, NRA's Attorney in Ca., last weekend on this topic. He said that although implied preemption may apply to pistols, it is not a settled point of law in regard to open carry. He advises to obey ALL municipal-codes unless you have half a mil.+ to take it to the Ca. Supreme Court. After we have preemption and the state's carry laws are struck down local jurisdictions will be tripping over each other to remove these violations of the 2nd A or get sued.