Kusala wrote:Ajahn Brahm and the few monks who strictly adhere to Vinaya is the reason why the Dhamma is timeless.

Not really. Ajahn Brahm is popular because he is a charismatic teacher with a large youtube following, not because he strictly adheres to the Vinaya.

It's a necessary condition but, of course, not suficient.

He turns his mind away from those phenomena, and having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.' (Jhana Sutta - Thanissaro Bhikkhu translation)

chownah wrote:Arijitmitter,I'm glad that you are expressing your views here. I both agree and disagree with you. Frankly I don't really much care what monks do. I think it is much more valuable to know what the Noble Ones do. Not all monks are Noble Ones and not all Noble Ones are monks. The Buddha never claimed to be of any lineage of monks but he did claim to be of the lineage of Noble Ones.

There is the case where a monk is content with any old robe cloth at all. He speaks in praise of being content with any old robe cloth at all. He does not, for the sake of robe cloth, do anything unseemly or inappropriate. Not getting cloth, he is not agitated. Getting cloth, he uses it not tied to it, uninfatuated, guiltless, seeing the drawbacks (of attachment to it), and discerning the escape from them. He does not, on account of his contentment with any old robe cloth at all, exalt himself or disparage others. In this he is skillful, energetic, alert, and mindful. This, monks, is said to be a monk standing firm in the ancient, original traditions of the Noble Ones.

Furthermore, the monk is content with any old almsfood at all. He speaks in praise of being content with any old almsfood at all. He does not, for the sake of almsfood, do anything unseemly or inappropriate. Not getting almsfood, he is not agitated. Getting almsfood, he uses it not tied to it, uninfatuated, guiltless, seeing the drawbacks (of attachment to it), and discerning the escape from them. He does not, on account of his contentment with any old almsfood at all, exalt himself or disparage others. In this he is skillful, energetic, alert, and mindful. This, monks, is said to be a monk standing firm in the ancient, original traditions of the Noble Ones.

Furthermore, the monk is content with any old lodging at all. He speaks in praise of being content with any old lodging at all. He does not, for the sake of lodging, do anything unseemly or inappropriate. Not getting lodging, he is not agitated. Getting lodging, he uses it not tied to it, uninfatuated, guiltless, seeing the drawbacks (of attachment to it), and discerning the escape from them. He does not, on account of his contentment with any old lodging at all, exalt himself or disparage others. In this he is skillful, energetic, alert, and mindful. This, monks, is said to be a monk standing firm in the ancient, original traditions of the Noble Ones.

Furthermore, the monk finds pleasure and delight in developing (skillful mental qualities), finds pleasure and delight in abandoning (unskillful mental qualities). He does not, on account of his pleasure and delight in developing and abandoning, exalt himself or disparage others. In this he is skillful, energetic, alert, and mindful. This, monks, is said to be a monk standing firm in the ancient, original traditions of the Noble Ones.

These are the four traditions of the Noble Ones — original, long-standing, traditional, ancient, unadulterated, unadulterated from the beginning — which are not open to suspicion, will never be open to suspicion, and are unfaulted by knowledgeable contemplatives and brahmans.

And furthermore, a monk endowed with these four traditions of the Noble Ones, if he lives in the east, conquers displeasure and is not conquered by displeasure. If he lives in the west... the north... the south, he conquers displeasure and is not conquered by displeasure. Why is that? Because the wise one endures both pleasure and displeasure.

This is what the Blessed One said. Having said this, he said further:

Displeasure does not conquer the enlightened one. Displeasure does not suppress him.He conquers displeasure because he endures it.

Having cast away all deeds: who could obstruct him?Like an ornament of finest gold: Who is fit to find fault with him?Even the Devas praise him, even by Brahma is he praised.

For this discussion I might plagiarize and slightly alter, "He does not, on account of his contentment with any old airline seat at all, exalt himself or disparage others. In this he is skillful, energetic, alert, and mindful. This, monks, is said to be a monk standing firm in the ancient, original traditions of the Noble Ones." chownah

Very nice Chownah . Thanks

Reading the Four Traditions of the Noble Ones is very nourishing and inspiring, to be brought down in our daily living, in both letter and spirit .

Thanks once again.

sanjay

The Path of Dhamma

The path of Dhamma is no picnic . It is a strenuous march steeply up the hill . If all the comrades desert you , Walk alone ! Walk alone ! with all the Thrill !!

Kusala wrote:Ajahn Brahm and the few monks who strictly adhere to Vinaya is the reason why the Dhamma is timeless.

Not really. Ajahn Brahm is popular because he is a charismatic teacher with a large youtube following, not because he strictly adheres to the Vinaya.

I can't speak for his audience in general, but for me personally, both are important. Of course I enjoy his talks, but I have listened to other good talks by other good teachers (before I settled on a more-or-less Theravada way) and for me knowing that Ajahn Brahm adheres strictly to the rules and really maintains a very high discipline massively enhances my trust in him and my ability to put some faith in the dhamma he teaches.

Kusala wrote:Ajahn Brahm and the few monks who strictly adhere to Vinaya is the reason why the Dhamma is timeless.

Not really. Ajahn Brahm is popular because he is a charismatic teacher with a large youtube following, not because he strictly adheres to the Vinaya.

I think he's popular for both of the above reasons. Were he simply charismatic with a large youtube following, he might be just another teacher building a brand for himself for his/her own ego and bank account. Western Mahayana has seen plenty of examples of this. The fact that behind the smile, the charisma and the sometimes corny jokes there is a serious Sutta and Vinaya scholar, and a devout Vinaya monk, makes all the difference in the world.

Very interesting thread, just spent my morning lecture reading through it slowly.

As an outsider, I agree with a former poster that says if we don't know the full story we shouldn't be so quick to criticise. However, there would have been nothing to stop the monks swapping seats with the elderly, the very tall or anyone else who has issues with economy seats. Not sure if this allowed by airline rules however.