Rangers-Senators Game 2 in review

1) Matt Carkner won’t be suspended, but how do the officials allow a guy to just jump somebody and throw that many punches and get away with it. I know, the NHL’s belief is that the five-minute power play is more than enough punishment. Ridiculous. But he does have a disciplinary hearing today. If only the Rangers had a power play and had scored a couple during that five minutes.

2) I applauded Todd Bertuzzi’s frontier justice the night before, so I’m not going to complain about Carkner … I mean, if I were a coach and a big grinder from the other team punched out my best player, I’d react that way, I think. Incidentally, Carkner is the guy who ended Derek Boogaard’s season last year, right?

3) That said, there’s a way to do it. Carkner could have cost his team big-time, and he not only didn’t cost them, but the Senators benefited from the Rangers’ all-for-one attitude when Brandon Dubinsky jumped in and got ejected. I can’t wait to see how Dubinsky plays Game 3.

4) Maybe Ottawa will find out what most of the East’s big boys already know, that the Rangers love games like this, and thrive in games like this. On the other hand, maybe we found out a little bit about Ottawa’s ability to push back, which, frankly, I doubted after Game 1.

5) And if the Senators need a rallying cry, the Carl Hagelin elbow on countryman Daniel Alfredsson could be it. Wojtek Wolski and Hagelin have now concussed Alfredsson (though it hasn’t been said that he has another one). I imagine Hagelin, who also has a hearing today, will be getting one of those Shanahan-special $2,500 couch-cushion-change fines.

6) But, I wouldn’t be surprised if he gets a game or two off because Alfredsson was injured — which should never, ever, ever, factor into the equation, but unfortunately, in the upside-down world of inane NHL justice, does. The Rangers are arguing that the Chris Phillips elbow on Ryan Callahan was just as bad. (In case you missed it late last night, Callahan is fine after taking a shot off the collarbone, and Ryan McDonagh is OK after getting hit in the onions on the tying goal).

7) Too bad Boyle’s goal wasn’t a winner. That would have been a cool story to write. Would have been a cool win for Tony from AZ, who remains in our thoughts and prayers.

8) Ottawa is obviously targeting Brad Richards, too, because I think they think he’ll react. And Zenon Konopka got a few extra shots on Richards — unpenalized — during a third-period scrum. Interesting that Konopka and Chris Neil ended up being in on the tying and winning goals.

9) Henrik Lundqvist was pretty special again until his defense failed him around the goalmouth late.

10) That’s six straight OT losses for the Rangers in the postseason.

11) Katie Strang of ESPN-NY, in trying to describe the Brandon Prust takedown of Erik Karlsson in the corner — which really wasn’t a penalty, and wasn’t called a penalty (see photo) — said it was “kind of a slew-elbow.”

12) And while I know a lot of youse were nuts about the officiating, and it was bad … they got it right on the two majors and Dubinsky was the third-man in (though we had a game recently, didn’t we, where somebody jumped in and didn’t get the game misconduct; I can’t remember the particulars. Anybody?). But I do think the officials let it get a little bit out of hand, and they had a rough night overall.

13) And there were two weird stoppages. One when Henrik Lundqvist’s mask broke and they stopped play, another when there was a puck lodged on the back of the net from warmups and it came loose when the players were battling for the game puck, which was also on the back of the net. That was pretty weird.

14) Paging Chris Kreider?

15) Who said it would be 1-1 after two? Same person who said Rangers in 5.

349 Comments

First! I was at the game! My girl surprised me last minute with tickets, such a physical game you could really tell they just wanted to brawl. Well I guess we well being seeing a little bit of Kreider on Monday. This should be interesting

Not gonna get too crazy bout one loss, but definitely disappointing. Refs have been brutal this postseason all around the NHL. If they don’t let Carkner punch Boyle 10 times and step in like they are paid to do, Dubi isn’t the 3rd man, and who knows how the game turns out. Looking forward to the rangers reaction in game 3. LGR!!

As for game, Dubi was about 5th man in, it wasn’t a fight and when a guy doesn’t fight back that should never have got that far, it’s up to the refs to be better. I hate that the goal that won it was Neil, if it was Karlsson or Michalek or Spezza fine, even Kuba or Turris, but Neil, NO!

I trust in Torts to have them ready to punish the Sens for last night. Let’s go Tonys Rangers!

I do not believe we need Scott to take care of business on Monday. We have enough boys in the lineup that can answer the bell for the hits/muggings on Richards and Boyle. Plus if thats the game they want to play they will have to dress some LUGS to continue their new game plan. Lugs = No SKILL. But I would not be the least bit upset if they dress him (Scott). I believe the Sens will become good little boys with Scott anywhere near the ice.

Ottawa is better than some (carp, wink) give them credit for. This will go 6 or 7.

Torts argument was just that, if only one guy is throwing punches how is the first guy I respond the third but second man in? Nonetheless, there was one replay which showed dubi threw two solid punches into carkner’s mug while he was on top of him (and carkner was bruised up). I think 2 and a game was actually fair given that fact.

There’s no way these rangers can:
A) keep letting hank get run 6.5 times per period
B) let Marc staal see any ice during crucial times in the game. ‘awful’ doesn’t describe just how bad he was on goal #2

1, 2, and 3. Wow. If I’m teaching logic, you’re not graduating.
The internal conflicts, the circles, the non-sequiturs. Wow.
As regards #2, he not only helped end his season, but maybe his life, eh”
Those are often the stakes when we encourage one folk to bash another folk’s brain.
Seems to slip the collective mind in the RUSH up the ice.
And applauding Todd Bertuzzi – I put that ethical dilemma to one of the Comment Goons
earlier. See it was not a dilemma for you at all.
4. “We” did not have to see it last night. :We” assumed it all along. It’s what MOST
NHL clubs do MOST of the time in the second season. That’s why “we” have been dumbfounded all along by the logic that the Rangers, having, to their immense credit, played all-out almost every game, would be advantaged for having done so, instead of worn, and less-well
equipped to meet adversaries with more energy available to step up THEIR commitment, and thus make it HARD for the Rangers to play for a change.
5. Hagelin is guilty of terrible form, I think. Not of malice. But he has to be responsible for terrible form, and I can see where Ottawa fans would be skeptical, and
6. I agree the first move toward consistent discipline is to get out of the God business, Don’t (“cause most humans generally have no gift for it) attempt to judge motive; don’t base original and definite punishment on impact of “crime” – punish the visible crime. Where I differ: IF there is injury, then additional punishment will be added to the regular penalty. E.G.: Keith would not play for Hawks for same time Sedin was out; then additional games, because the cost should be greater for the sucker-puncher than the punched.
7. Would that be Beavis cool or Butthead cool? Or some other ten-year old’s version of cool?
8. Yes. The whole, cowardly, juvenile approach to our games: if it seems you have more skill,
we have small, small souls, and will do everything we can to distort, within and without (and mostly without) the rules, that hard reality. We are not strong enough to accept that you are
better in the narrow and inconsequential world of games. A “night for men” the Ottawa guys kept repeating. Ho-ho-ho. No, a night for the usual frightened little kits….
In this regard, the proximate third man in is McLean; he is the instigator; and his counterpart
for the Rangers the same. Little Napolean Tortorella. Third man. But the ultimate third is the league itself, with the great big lie that hockey is about tough men, when it really is about forever unfinished and shallow boys, and their shrinking numbers of devotees.
9. Just me, but I would have thought the precise time and opportunity for a goalie to prove himself playoff special was when his defense failed him. What the hell is “special” about a
backstop who only makes saves in ideally structured situations? Hank is merely a Prince for now,
and will stay one ’til he plays like last year’s Tim Thomas.
10. Think that says something about the quality of Glen’s work identifying and nurturing and keeping kids who can score goals?
11. Nice work, Katie. And nice attribution, Rick.
15. Lotsa folks. THough many of them are wiser than predicting a Stanley Cup round…
16. And so you mentioned what you said you wouldn’t. And the sun rises…

Long time reader, first time poster here … I am amazed how no one has talked about how awful mdz has been this series. I’m not talking about the goal he kicked in, that was just icing on the cake. The guy can’t complete a pass, makes awful decisions … A total liability. How the heck is he still on the PP, that has proven to be an excercise in futility. Just embarassing. Are we allowed to be critical in the playoffs, or are we afraid to hurt his feelings? He deserves another shot in Hartford.

And please dont talk to me abut his numbers this year, chock full of second assists.

If Weber didn’t get a game, then I doubt Hags will. Not sure why Sens thought they needed Carkner on the ice to settle things w/Boyle , Neil or Zenon could have settled things by dropping them fair. Having Carkner do it was bush league.

Torts managed his side a little better on Thursday and got them refocused on their simple game plan when it seemed Ottawa was taking control in the second period. Full marks to him.

But Maclean trumped him as a strategist last night. Dressing his torpedoes, exacting retribution for Boyle’s abuse of the Swedish kid, amping up the physical challenge around Hank’s net, and daring the Rangers’ inadequate PP to do anything about it changed the tenor of the series. His team took the initiative and made the Rangers react. As old a strategy as there is in the game and one that favored Ottawa’s lineup.

Sure was plenty of carryover from Game 1 to 2, eh?! But then, both coaches belong to the reality-based momentum community (ie. their players have minds and hearts and souls that don’t simply shutdown and reset to zero when the final buzzer goes). Great coaches use this human nature… rather than denying it.

It’s too bad the Adams voting is already done because we’re about to find out how great Torts really is. Can he think creatively and adapt under pressure? Or are more debilitating shot blocking and more decibels the only answers?

Carp:
The details you may not remember….when the Devils and Rangers started the game with a 3 on 3 brawl, after Bickel bloodied a Devil real bad, Salvador came in, more clearly as a 3rd man in than Dubie was even close to being, and got a 10 min misconduct (not a game)

NHL refs and brass are way below prior years of fairness, consistency, and competence. I got nothing against refs, that is just how it is.

I’ve been saying this all season about NHL discipline: it should not be outcome-determinative. If you intend to hurt a guy, you intend to hurt him. Likewise if you are reckless. It shouldn’t matter that the guy you hit is durable (Boyle) or is brittle (Alfie).

what is it about this team that makes those looooong passes ( you know . the easy intercepted ones) and that eternal sloppy passes that go to the opponent as often as to their intended targets, and this infatuation with dumping and chasing instead of skating in and shooting.

Can’t they see that when they dump they’re giving the
other team an equal opportunity of collecting the puck,
(do I see the ghost of Roszival hanging over the arena?)

All the best to Tony from Az., one of the pre-CARP boneheads. The Rangers had plenty of chances to put the game away but kept Ottawa in it. The Sens were tougher last night. I’m real excited/nervous about how the Rangers come out in game 3. I expect them to get back on track like they’ve done all year.

When will the NHL start to consider what would happen in real life on some of these “fights”. If Boyle was jumped like that in front of a policeman in NYC or Toronto, Carkner would be in front of a judge. If another citizen came to Boyles defense, Carkner would still be only one in front of a judge.

Carkner should get more than Haglin gets…Boyle was more defenseless and Carkner had obvious intent to injure.

As fun as thursday night was; this was brutal. SDOT sure is agony/ecstasy depending on the outcome.

Thoughts:

1. If Hags is suspended, my head will explode. was he a bit reckless with that elbow…yes… no intent and no history of anything similar. The fact that Alfredson sustained an injury should be a total non factor. IF he gets more than a fine, you will hear me screaming from wherever you are situated.

2. The Rangers in the 3rd and overtime let the Senators dictate the play. We need to spend more time in our offensive zone cycling the puck. The Sens are dangerous on the rush and the less we let them do it the better.

3. Once again, the butt of many jokes, Brian Boyle was a MONSTER. I love that guy. And if he scores some goals too… WOW!

4. Man did I feel bad for Hank on that MDZ goal. Hank played great and might have shut them out but for that “MOMENTUM” ;-) changing goal. MDZ had a bad overall game. He was not good bringing the puck through the neutral zone on the rush during the power play.

5. Torts has to come up with some strategy on the PP for countering what Ottawa is doing. They are pressuring us in our own zone and in the neutral zone as we bring the puck up ice. we MUST counter this.

6. There is no way in hell John Scott should play. But, where the hell is MIKE RUPP. He has been a total non factor? In a very chippy game like that, I expect Rupper to shine. He was almost invisible. It is my belief that he has a lingering injury.

7. If anyone is hurt, or if Hags gets suspended, I feel confident that we will see “THE KREIDER” (hat tip to Miami Pimp)

8. The Rangers are a better team than ottawa. I think they will come out on Monday with a better effort and will ultimately win the series.

9. The fact that the piece of carcillo Neil scored the overtime winner made me want to PUKE

As a relative newcomer here, I am not familiar with Tony, but if he is part of this wacky group (and I mean that in the best way) then I am sure he is a good guy! My best wishes to him and his family…

Is anyone else wondering what the hell happened to Marc Staal? I know he had a concussion and all but he’s not even their top 2(maybe 3 – i would take DelZ over him) anymore? He’s been back for months now, and unlike Michelletti’s “slowly improving” prgnosis I just don’t see it.He makes a lot of mistakes, and doesn’t really seem that engaged. That tying goal, while unfortunate, should have been handled by Staal.

If punishment is determined by the result than it doesn’t work as that much of a deterrent. A guy who wants to make a big statement hit will think twice if he knows he will get suspended . . .however with the system they have now of result punishment then the player could think to himself . . .maybe he won’t be injured and I will just get my two minutes. . . If a shot to the head is worthy of a five minute penalty with suspension and fine . . .then it is worthy of that whether the other player is hurt or not.

Don’t know if anyone wrote about this last night, but as necessary (and honorable) as Dubinsky’s intervention in Carkner’s score settling with Boyle was, it clearly constituted a Third Man In violation according to the definitions of Fighting and Altercations in the rule book (see this page: http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26336 ).

The shame of it is that the Rangers PP failed to punish the Sens sufficiently to make them back away from their Machiavellian strategy.

The good news is both teams will be stressing disciplined physicality on Monday with the League watching closely- an excellent opportunity for the big, fast Kreider to step in and help.

Exactly Rhode Island. . . . if the Rangers had gotten their powerplay to be anything close to productive the nasty stuff would have been cut out immediately. . . But Ottawa was allowed to run free because they knew the Rangers weren’t going to make them pay for it.

I love this sport when it’s played hard, fast and… with skill. The league has only itself to blame for what the playoffs are becoming: victory through attrition gotten by cheap shots and cheating. Slew foots, elbows, kneeing, cross-checks and fists should not be major components that lead to lifting the Cup for the victors and MRIs and brain scans for the vanquished. There should not be one set of rules (ha!) for the regular season and another for the POs. The officiating which should guarantee a fair contest and protect player’s health and well-being is a bad joke. The league oversight of the Rulebook is nearly non-existant and used as a political tool to keep “trouble-makers” from embarrassing those in power. It’s just a matter of time before we see someone paralyzed or killed on the ice. Sign me up for the class action suit accusing the league of dereliction of duty. Give me back the sport I love.

1. Girardi is mentally weak with zero leadership ability, so strip him of the “A” he never deserved and tell him he will be traded for a better passer and shooter in the off-season.

2. Lundqvist needs to stop the goals he has no chance on before he can be considered mentally strong enough to be a playoff “winner”.

3. As everybody said before the series started, the Rangers simply can’t handle the bad matchup of a physical, grinding opponent in low scoring games. Tortorella needs to strategise to get the series back to a speed-through-the-neutral-zone track meet that serves the Rangers far better. Or just shout at them as much as he clearly did in Game 1.

Rhode Island: “46.16 Third Man In – A game misconduct penalty, at the discretion of the Referee, shall be imposed on any player who is the first to intervene (third man in) in an altercation already in progress *except when a match penalty is being imposed in the original altercation*.”

I’d be willing to bet that if it were Carkner on Richards (or Rupp on Karlsson or whatever), either the refs would have done their job and broken it up or no 3rd man would have been called as it clearly wasn’t a fight. What’s the other alternative, wait until Carkner punches himself exhausted or Boyle is forced to react / take a major himself? By that officiating logic, you’ll get tossed and penalized, but you also get as many free punches as you like plus the ability to take someone else out of the game with you.

That officiating last night was an absolute embarassment to the league. The refs knew they made a mistake on the dubi ejection which is why they gave so many bs calls for the rangers (the arty non trip, the high stick against hags after the play). I expect that crew wont officiate in the playoffs again.

That said, the best part about the hagelin hearing now is that there is NO WAY he can be suspended when Weber is allowed to assault Zetterberg and get a fine. HAHA, that idiot shannhan is over his head. Waaaay over his head. If you cant look at that replay once, one time, and say to yourself “if that is not a suspension, nothing is” then you are either 1) in the wrong position or 2) lying and cheating. I think it is hilarious that they are in this predicament now. they literally cant suspend anyone for anything. if they do, look for the NHL to become even more irrelevant than it already is.

I don’t get it . . . as a player I loved Shannahan . . but this year geez I have lost so much . . respect for him. :-( I used to wait hours after games to get his autograph . . . joked with him that I had something signed by him for every team he had been on. . . I thought he would clean things up and be more fair . . .more even . . .more concerned about players health and not what the ‘league’ wants. smh.

As Doodie implied, it wouldn’t surprise me at all if the league suddenly decided to throw suspensions at Hagelin and Carker that are completely inconsistent with recent precedent (even if justified in isolation), because of a reaction to the negative publicity to the Weber ruling in particular and the general perception that two of the games last night went out of control.

Plus, as has been noted, non-star players are always far more expendable when it comes to the league’s disciplinary standards.

I may be in the minority, but I thought most of the blame for the Hagelin hit was on Alfredsson. He ducked his head just as Hagelin was coming in for the check. If he’s standing upright he gets hit in the chest.

Prusts non-penalty was just that. He did not swing his elbow into the player. They were battling for the puck and Prust pushed the other guy and he fell backwards. No penalty should have been called.

The Rangers looked ill equipped to handle the physical game that Ottawa played last night. Maybe they got caught off guard.

The Rangers powerless play. (Big sigh) Uh….let’s not talk about that.

Brian Boyle – who lit a fire under his assen? So, now he’s a scorer again?

Great recap Carp and lot of great comments..and nothing a win Monday won’t help us forget. Will Del Zotto be Ottawa’s crosshairs for his cross check on Turris? Old time hockey…We need to keep up the focus on Karlsson…wear him down…is it my imagination..or does Neal look like Avery on Steriods? Had the honor to have my pic taken with the Hanson Bros from Slapshot…they are still quite feisty and actually have maintained their movie good looks…and still cashing in on thier 15 minutes of fame.
Best to Tony…you are in the right city for treatment…

it’s natural to bemoan the constantly inconstant officiating in the NHL when it negatively affects the good guys. Ottawa simply figured out what so many teams who have beaten us this year have known: we can’t handle speedy forechecking. We also can’t expect to dump and chase all night against a quicker opponent like Ottawa and attain the necessary puck possession. We all underestimated OTT. Clearly they DO have another gear. They do have some grit. They were quicker to almost every puck, and on the few occassions when they weren’t, they fought harder for it. Most blatantlyin the 3rd. The puck was in our zone all period after BBs goal, and all we could do was ice it. That wont hold a lead. And now that home ice is over, it’s going to be tough to win one in Canada. They wanted this game more, and they beat us soundly. Also, stop singling out Staal and DZ on plays when there are obvious blown coverages by offensive players that lead to goals like the one which MSG called out Staal. He was left out in the cold 3 on 1. He made the right play to go for the puck in that case. Torts–the auto shot blocking when there’s even man on man or odd man rushes by the opponent have a costly backside–taking our players out of the play.

Maybe the real lesson of the Boyle debacle is that very big, aggressive guys who have already picked on the other team’s skinny finesse guy can’t afford to turtle when the retaliation comes. It can be a clever move if the refs call the attack straight AND teammates don’t intervene. But I think facing the retaliation and fighting back would have been better for the team mindset. That’s obviously the lesson Maclean was teaching in preparing his team for Game Two.

doodie, well said with your “nhl” acronym breakdown. also interesting to see the full meaning of that 3rd man in rule. that said, i fully expect a 5+ hit night from doobie in game 3. also looking for a contribution on the scoresheet from him. he doesnt need to redeem himself for his actions, but he should be WELL motivated to agitate the hell out of Ottawa Monday night. funny that a poster named “wwf” posted earlier, because it will be a wrestling match for “the mo” in game 3.

Good morning, Carp! Well, you were right about it being 1-1, lets hope you were right about it being over in 5 also. Speaking of predictions, you said “at least two” hat tricks for The Kreider in his 1st game, right?

The only thing I think about is if John Scott does dress, is that a small victory for Ottawa? I think they’d love us to do that and take away a roster spot. We can’t put him on the ice much to chase guys around he can’t catch who won’t fight him. Plus he’ll get the instigator.

But would be hilarious to see him start the game on the 1st line in Hags spot, line him next to Mr. Neil.

Or how about Scott just takes someone out in warmups, we pay the fine and move on.

If Rupp is not going to play the way we need him to, you dress Scott. The drop off is not that severe. My main problem with Scott is he doesn’t seem to play with an edge and in the POs you need to get nasty.

Rangers’ D is starting to wobble a bit. Will they wear down over the series?

Dubi getting thrown out of the game was a killer. they have no depth up front, which is why Kreider needs to dress regardless of suspension. Mitchell gives you nothing. if you take him out of the lineup, he will not be missed.

By the way, CARP I want to thank you again for this site. The thoughtful and funny commentary here is so great!

But, I must say that you predicted the 1-1 after two games would bring out the prophets of doom and ledge jumpers. I really don’t see any of that here today. I actually think the commentary from the peanut gallery has been very measured and thoughtful.

I HAVE SO MUCH FAITH IN THIS BUNCH! THEY ARE GOING TO WIN THIS SERIES!!!!

The refs will be calling things very tight on Monday, so Scott (like Rupp but without the jets!) can’t help much. The Rangers should try to keep things 5-on-5 and reestablish their down-low possession time. Trading power plays with the Sens is not advised.

by the way, I was one of the people who did not like this matchup. one of the reasons was concerns about the Refs when facing a Canadian team. Canadian bias if you will. I think we have begun to see this, and we will se a lot more.

so let me explain the stupidity of the NHL. Phillips cheap shot penalty on Cally did not cause an injury(intent be damned) so he gets no hearing. Hagelins hit on ALfreddson causes an injury so it gets a hearing. GOt it.

intent is irrelevant, the moral of the story is do not hit guys who are more easily concussed, do your cheap shot vicious hits on guys with low probability of concussions!!!!!!!!!!sounds fairly stupid to me.

nice move shanny with the $2500 fine for Webber nah my paranoia has no basis on fact or reality…….

wow the sens must be bummed carkner is going to be suspended that is as harmful as if rupp or scott got suspended for the rangers, wow that will really hurt the Sens…………..

Not defending the officials, but we all know they revert back to the pre-lockout, unwritten, primal “rule book” at playoff time. Can’t claim to be surprised.

After what the Bruins were allowed to do (during and after play) on their way to the Cup last year, the other teams were put on notice that nasty power forwards who can give and take the rough stuff and score in the dirty areas would have a much greater say in deciding series than softer finesse guys.

The Rangers might as well confront this reality now and find a way to cope before having to face teams like the Bs or Blues later on.

I really thought Alfredsson was selling it a little much but I guess since he didn’t return there’s something there. Mainly due to his concussion history. We probably wouldn’t have liked that type of hit on Staal or Richards.

If the hit was on a lesser player, it’d be the fine, but I think bc its Canada’s captain, it will be 1 game.

First and foremost, a Tony update. He is stable this morning, feeling better. You can say safely that he is starting his path to recovery. It’ll take time and an effort, but he’ll get there. I’ll be seeing him a couple of times this week, and I’ll make sure to relay all your best wishes and thoughts.

Appropriately, given how well they executed their paleo strategy, Neil and the other Sens were happily firing m-bombs all over the place post-game. They actually feel better about their chances on Monday having just ripped a game from the Rangers at MSG in provocative fashion. Can you believe it?

As far as the last night’s game. A lot of good, albeit controversial thoughts. Love this place, and thank you again, Carp.
With all the discussion about the physicality that Ottawa brought last night, and whether the Rangers responded properly, plus people are trying to give McLean so much credit for his strategy, what people forget is that Ottawa was a few minutes away from going down 2-0, plus they may have to play without one of the most important players, Alfredson, the rest of the way. Talking about the strategy backfire!

In answer to question before, yes, Ottowa had more jump and seemed the team that hd something to prove. They got to most pucks quicker and with more intensity. IMHO, the Carkner/Boyle things results of losing Dubie and watching:
a. his reaction/gatorade/loss of Dubli for the game
b. BB keep his gloves on and not defend himself or his team
c. the image of that stupid ref standing there with his arm up and NOT help BB, who kept his
gloves on and did not want to defend himself or his team
had a negative effect on the psyche of the Rangers. It also had a rallying effect on the Sen’s. Double edged sword.
Sen’s also played big and tough. Scrums all around Henrik, bodies in front of him, protecting their net. Any chance they got the finished checks.
Torts has to move this team forward. In essence, they were softer than the Sen’s for one game and lost.

I’m concerned for the Rangers if they ever go into OT. Their recent playoff OT record is poor and it seems Ottawa has more experience and poise in sudden death. All the Ranger regular season OT wins were 4 on 4 or in the shoot out behind Hank’s stellar play. I’m really hoping they can finish business in regulation.

ilb, you are absolutely correct. MDZ’s kick in, a post, a cross bar, and a poor defensive play by Henrik, followed by McD getting cubed. Yes, a comedy of errors. Some would say bad luck. But, in the end, we lost. No excuses here.

Paging Staal, Stephan, Rupp, Mitchell. And Torts, if you don’t’ want to use ’em, don’t dress ’em. You need to be confident in who you play. This 5 d-men and 3 lines will come back to haunt us at some point.

Thanks for the updates, ilb. Id rather have Tony be okay than have the Rangers win last night. So excellent news.

Regarding the game, Im sure others will disagree, but Dubinsky was not a 3rd man in and should not have been thrown out.

There was never 2 people fighting (so there couldnt have been a 3rd man in), there was only one player brutally assualting another player, similarly and dis-similarly from a Bertuzzi on Moore incident.

The key is, no referees stepped in get that guy (I refuse to type his name) off of Boyle. Referees step in all the time to break up fights, or to get players off the top of other players, but the referees in this instance sat back and watched as that guy attempted to murder Brian Boyle.

Now, what is a teammate of Boyle supposed to do as he sees Boyle getting murdered, and referees just standing back enjoying the crime in which that guy was committing?

To everyone who thinks Hagelin will get nothing because of the Weber joke of a ruling is way off. Shanahan has been incredibly inconsistent and therefore there no way of knowing what he will rule. I can see Hags getting just a fine or a lifetime ban or anything in between.

As I said last night, I play Scott next game. No need for most of you to follow this up with he’s useless possts because i can see where youre coming from. Just in my opinion there are two routes you can go and that is play Kreider and hope he brings something more than Mitchell has ans can defend himself because you know Neil/Konopka/Carkner will be going after him every chance they get to get him off his game and at the same time hope he can play the defensive part of the game or you go the route of John Scott where he wont take carcillo from anyone and will defend every teammate he gets a chance to but certainly wont bring any offense to the game. Id go with Scott, imo.

The coach of the 8th seed changes his lineup and gameplan dramatically after Game One and beats one of the league’s toughest, fightinest teams in Game Two and that counts as “strategy backfire” with you ?!

Sounds like a case of strategy denial to me! You know, it’s OK to admit that Torts gets outcoached every now and then. (Hell, I’ve even admitted he was the better coach in Game One.) But, how he responds and recaptures momentum now is what really matters.

Maybe its because I don’t know much about Kreider . . .but I don’t see why the rush to bring him in. He is untested and we already see how a young defense is unsure in our zone after playing a full season . . .so why bring in an even less tested kid to possibly get hurt before is career begins?

interesting, but not too surprising, that Phillips isnt being reviewed. If Hags will be gone, with a hearing that’s pretty certain, no? Torts wont be too pleased. Id bet Hags gets 1 game or nothing. Carkner 2-3.

NYR, i went to a game two years ago and there was a blonde chick yelling “Get the byfuglien out of my house” about 75 times during the game. After the game she vomited in the entire row and had to be escorted out. Could be the same gal, perhaps? About Dubinsky, I just thought that the gatorade thing was out of frustration. Id probably do the same if I was thrown out 5 mins into a game for defending a teammate against a useless guy. Expecting a big game from him tomorrow.

If Hagelin does get suspended, which would be a joke of epic proportions, then the league would have to release that information ASAP, so that the Rangers can prepare for Monday night’s game without him.

Good comments all around – but the idea that this was not a good hockey game is crazy – this is old time, play off hockey. THe Carkner hit on Boyle should be a game misconduct – as well as the one on Dubi – that is the rule – 3rd man in, regardless – I know it sucks, and Dubi has to do it – but it is the rule. I love skill as much as anybody – but you gotta play strong oon the puck and give hit for hit –

The goal that Staal got caught on is really HIS responsibility – I know that he is in for blocking the shot – but he needs to pick up that 3rd forward in front of the net – plus, he was really screening Hank on that shot – he needs to be off of Hank’s left shoulder on that man – it was too easy a goal for Sens. Of course – MSG goes on about how great he is and that he almost had that shot blocked – true of course. But in reality – he needs to be on that man.

Even if he is only on the ice for 4 minutes in Game 3, Scott is a liability. A 4th line is supposed to play defense, check opposition. Scott cant do anything because he cant skate at all. What happens when a slow lumbering goon like Scott cant match the pace of opposing players? He commits penalties.

Carp – again, the “if” word. The problem with the scenario “had the rangers won..” is that you still need to win 4. The sens played ranger hockey much better than our boys did last night. Rangers looked intimidated. If things don’t change, and the rangers arent able to match toughness with toughness, they could lose this series… Even had the rangers won last night.

Sens played 1970’s flyers hockey and it worked.

Rangers are still my pick, but they need to know Ottawa isn’t laying down. They have manned up. Time for our boys to do the same.

All you need to know about Karlsson and how non impressive he is, just go back and watch his 6 games against the Bruins this year, and then expect the same in his remaining 63 career games against the Bruins. Nothing.

I kind of agree, Manny. Although, Scott is useless. He brings nothing. He is not a playoff hockey player, IMO.

I think Kreider only plays if we have problems scoring or we are facing an elimination game. This is assuming he is doing well enough in practice and is showing more offense than other guys…unlikely but possible…

Artie and Korpedo both got opportunities in the playoffs before become full-time NHL’ers, if I remember correctly…

The Rangers have responded all season long…I fully expect them to respond Monday night after not only losing the game but getting pushed around plenty by the Ottawa Senators.

I DO agree that the Rangers need to step up their game and it was horrifically bad to think you could simply sit back on a one goal lead against a team that’s shown the ability to get into your zone with ease.

Dubinsky, we all hope, will have a monster game after seething for 48 hours.

And YES, I expect fully that Carl Hagelin will be suspended. And that Phillips will not.

Hagelin’s hit led to an injury. Hagelin’s hit led to an injury of a STAR player. Hagelin’s hit led to an injury of a CANADIAN TEAM STAR PLAYER.

Shanahan will do his silly video and explain why it’s a suspension while he’ll find some reason not to do the same to Philips.

Shanahan, whether he’s the lap dog of the NHL or not, has become a bigger joke than Colin Campbell. And THAT my friend, takes alot of work.

Well…with any luck we’ll get to see the Flyers go up 3-0 on the Pens today. Two things will make me happy this playoff year:

Expect a tight checking, but relatively clean, game on Monday with the league watching closely. Kreider probably wouldn’t have to face any of the ultra violence. Why not see what his size, speed and finishing can do?

They were unexpierenced but I don’t think that Artie’s first game was in the playoffs (I might be wrong though) . . . I just feel like if this kid is the end all that everyone thinks/says he is then why risk his career for a game. . . Let him settle let him get experience before you throw him right in . . or is the jump from college to NHL not as big as I think? A standout in college might get discouraged in a tough game where all of a sudden the players are much bigger/faster/stronger. . . I’m talking confidence wise not necessarily injury possibility.

If Kreider does play I will assume it’s Torts sending two messages, (1) that we are not getting into a “who’s-fists-are-bigger” contest with the Senators, and (2) that Kreider is absolutely ready and has shown such in practice.

Prust was a penalty to be fair, but the continuation of the play he was blatantly tripped as well. Hags I love him but he should have been gone. A fine yes , suspension no, the way they have been handing them out. Again as I said earlier last night Dubi should not have been thrown, there was no penalty on Boyle, so it’s impossible to be a third man in. Absolutey awful call on the Sens I think Gonchar #55 I think they just make stuff up, also a real quick whistle in front of Hank sprawling. Oh well I thought 5 games as well with us tied at 1-1 also. But Dubi should not have been gone. 2 min roughing and a 10 min misconduct.

in·ad·e·qua·cy
– the quality or state of being insufficient or deficient

Is there any better word to describe what the fools executed last night? My goodness, what I witnessed last night was a calamity surpassing even the fate of the Hindeburg’s maiden voyage.

Are we really going to rely on the goal-scoring “talents” of Stralman and Boyle to carry us to the second round? These weaksauce, third-rate clowns should be honing their skills in the Guatemalean fourth-division morning league, but instead are giving significant minutes by Toots, who sits behind the bench praying that some lucky bounces or deflections result in Rangers’ goals. Because he knows that the hockey aptitude on this bush-league squad is equal to that of family of drunk squirrells.

I actually don’t blame Queen Henry, even though I stand by my assessment that his reactions are slower than mollasses and that his glove-side is as susceptible to a wrist shot as Venice’s streets are to flooding.

The real culprit and reason for yesterday’s invevitable loss is the complete lack of fortitude on this team. The skate around as if they’ve been given an overdose of Nyquil followed by a bottle each of Benadryl. They shoot the biscuit as if they’re targeting fans in the stands. And they play defense like a bunch of after-hours Cirque-du-Soleil backup performers.

What can we expect tomorrow night? Same thing we expected from the North Korean missile launch: a catastrophic explosion of ineptitude.

I’m not sure what the controversy is here. Boyle (144 lbs) got off several punches on Karlsson (180 lbs.) in Game 1. The officials blew the call and gave each 2 minute minors – if Ottawa had gotten the extra 2 minutes, we probably wouldn’t have had the Game 2 debacle. Second, why do people (i.e. Boyle) think Carkner was dressed? Boyle was either stupid in not paying attention to Carkner while he was on the ice, or more certainly, he decided to turtle against the player more his size (Carkner weighs 235 lbs.) He was much quicker to drop the gloves against Neil (215 lbs), a middle weight who isn’t afraid to punch above his weight. Rangers fans should be more concerned that Boyle didn’t show much character beating up on lightweight Karlsson, not dropping them against Carkner who is more his size, and then again fighting Neil who is again in a lower weight class. Hagelin should get at least 2 games, Carkner should get none or a $2,500 fine a la Shea Weber. I agree that although black letter application of the rules that Dubinsky could have been suspended, given everything else that the refs let go during that game, the game misconduct seemed petty. Officaiting keeps getting worse.

Agree with most of your penalty analysis. But, the NHL’s definition of a fight only requires one player throwing punches (!) and any conflict between two players that involves a penalty counts as an Altercation. Intervening in either gets a guy tossed.

I think Rupp got hurt in that Shelley fight and hasn’t been the same since. That’s the only excuse for his invisibility. If he is hurt and can’t fight/intimidate the opposition, then put Scott in his place.

At the end of the day we went into the prevent D (whether deliberately or subconsciously) and it cost us, we didn’t score on the 5 minute PP and it cost us, we got out rough and tumbled and it cost us, but most importantly…the sens had puck luck and it helped them!!

Someone said earlier that this next game will be heavily watched by the league (probably will), so I would wait until we are up 3-1 (hopefully) in the series and back at the garden and then dress john scott…put an exclamation point on the series and physically beat the sens into the ice to cap the series. LOL

Geo – we knew about the typo. If he was 144 he’d be referred to around here as string bean.

When the Rangers signed Rupp I thought it was a good move because I knew that Avery was on the way out and they needed somebody else besides Prust to do the rough stuff. I thought Rupp had some skills too and might contribute a tiny bit of offense. However, I haven’t seen much at all from him on either count. Is there anybody that thinks he has lived up to expectations?

I think Rupp was injured before the shelley fight. He has had knee problems all season (I honestly do not think his knee has been 100% or close to it all season). Then the boulton slash affected his hand/arm for quite a while and I do not think that has healed either. He quit throwing punches in the shelley fight because I think he re injured it (the hand/arm) during that scrap.

Either way, he is not going to be confused for hags as far as skating goes, but he is a better skater than he has shown this season (again, not saying much)….wonky knee!!

Cross Check: I think Rupp is a decent skater for an enforcer and has shown flashes of promise this season. There have also been times this season where I think he should have responded but didn’t…and I definitely think he should’ve made a “you want to fight? come to me, not Prust” statement at some time during this league when big guys were picking on Prust. Not sure whether that is Torts fault or his own, but the bottom line is we need a guy to call on when things get really nasty, and if Rupp can’t be that guy due to injuries and/or unwillingness, then we have a guy in Scott who I think should get a shot. And this is especially true now that the Senators know they can goon it up and still win. At this point, Boyle, MDZ, and Hagelin are all targets – and I’m sure Kreider will become one too if he makes his NHL debut this series – and someone should be there to stand up for them.

Just another thought on Kreider. I have probably watched over 30 games that he’s played in. No one should worry about his ability to withstand any goon play that may come his way. He is very tough and has a temper, and has the large body to impose his will in any confrontation. Dont know if hE can drop the gloves well but I am sure that he is much tougher than Karlsson who is thriving despite all of the physical play that’s come his way.

czech
and I mean this sincerely, I think you know more about kreider than most of us here (certainly me), but handling rough stuff in college is far and away different from handling rough stuff in the NHL playoffs.

Orr is 100% right. Except most of you are missing the key to the whole thing. Referees are supposed to break up stuff like that, and they do 99% of the time. But in this case, they stood back and laughed at Boyle as he was being murdered. They were accomplices, and so when Dubinsky goes to get that guy off of his teammate, the only people that shouldve been thrown out of the game were the referees.

I am NOT dressing him for a “fair” fight. I am dressing him to wreak havoc in scrums and go all carkner or weber on someone. It is a slightly across the line intimidation factor to me. If the sens can have carkner do that (with relative effectiveness) why can’t we do it with scott? If someone wants to fight him “fair”, then fine. If he gets kicked out, then he doesn’t get his 5 minutes.

If he does go all carkner on someone, and the sens 3rd man in (with consistent NHL officiating…LOL) is foligno, we trade scott for foligno for the game and all the better for us (even if we have to kill a 5 minute major)

Hav3en’t read all the posts, but how is Tony AZ? After last night’s game, he probably wished his docs didn’t give him permission to watch.

speaking of pp, do we always have to shoot it in? I think it has been mildly successful when :
A: There is someone in front of the net creating a screen aka Boyle
B: When it is carried in with speed: Gabby

bull dog – Carkner is not “meaningful” but he had a big impact on the game because his actions and our lack of response gave his team the confidence to run us. Scott can have a similar impact, or at a minimum counter Carkner. There are so many quotes from current and former NHL players that say they play bigger and with more confidence when there is an enforcer in the line-up who they know will handle the really nasty stuff.

BULL DOG – John scott doesnt need to be a fast skater once the whistle stops…that is where a lot of the nasty stuff is going on…..John scott will grab someone and go and it will be easy to do because there are 5 senators all standing pushing and shoving

This isnt olympic speed skating. Scott will get to deter and impose his size in EVERY scrum he is on the ice for…

You dont need to skate fast in the type of game that is being played….lots of whistles, lots of scrums, lots of talking/chattering…..i would like to see the pre-game skate with scott chirping during warmups…

I know Kreider is not projected to be a bottom six player and becoming such..even a good one..would be a bust. But in this situation it’s not a bad idea. He’s getting more ice time than if he sits in the stands and even if that line only sees 4 minutes of ice time, it will have some scoring potential, speed and size. Also, I think Bell biv should play. Feds has some experience and two cups but I am fine with switching out mitchell and feds for Kreider and Bell Biv. We get more size, speed and scoring even if it is for limited minutes. Bell Biv is not Kreider fast and will never be a 20 goal scorer in the NHL but I think he is faster than Feds or Mitchell (From what I can remember) and is >or= Feds and Mitchell in scoring and a whole hell of a lot tougher. I doubt either of these guys will see any ice time but if I was Sather or Torts, I’d at least be talking about this.

I said this the other night, if our team rolled 4 lines consistently, then scott and his less than stellar skating is an issue. We don’t roll 4 lines, and for what he is probably going to be utilized for, speed isn’t a prerequisite.

Even if the Rangers don’t have enough toughness, I would not turn to Scott. I would turn to the Whale before Scott. Deveaux is light years above Scott and as much as it makes my head hurt to type this–I would call up Newbury before I would play Scott.

stuart – allow me to repeat……When everyone is standing still, you dont need to be an Olympic speed skater to grab someone and make a statement

sorry mate, but the war is what I am talking about…and the rangers lost an early battle…..if they dont respond and play tougher…the Sens will win the war…This is a game about intimidation….and every time richards and MDZ had the puck, they turned away, turned the puck over, and skating like they were afraid to get hit…..

We need to be extracting pounds of flesh if we want to win…not the other way around

Am I missing something when people in one breath say the Senators benefitted from intimidation tactics because they knew trading PP chances with the Rangers would be an advantage for them, but in the next say that they wouldn’t mind the Rangers dressing Scott to “do a Carkner”, even if a five minute PK resulted?

Daniel Alfredsson traveled home with the team last night. If he’s able to fly, that’s a good sign. #Sens

15 Apr 12 Reply
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Nicks says that Alfredsson is not at the Sens practice facility today.

2PM: Nicks tweets, “Foligno says Alfie is in “good spirits.”

2:21PM: Paul MacLean told Nicks that that Alfie is feeling good and will be re-evaluated tomorrow.

Of course he will play tomorrow! They are just waiting for Hags to be suspended. What a huge pile of carcillo this is. As I said before, the Phillips elbow on Cally was just as bad as the Hags elbow and there isn’t even a hearing!!!!!! INFURIATING…

So, do I have to root for the Pens today? I want this series to go seven and have the winner limping away. My natural inclination is to wish Philly an early exit. Yet I felt some perverse joy in seeing the Pens drop two at home.

Also – not only did I make a huge batch of bourbon lemonade (which involves simple syrup, bourbon, lemon concentrate and soaking lemons in the whole thing) Mrs. Manny and her friend are making a huge chopped liver spread! From Scratch! Woo hoo!

Carp a good post as usual but differ with 3 of your thoughts: Thought (4) How do we love games like this. We were screwed by not having Dubinsky for the rest of the game and on the whole they got us off our game with this rough stuff. Spoke with Fotio before the game and he said they were going to play tough. Thought (12) How was Dubinsky the third man in. Boyle wasn’t even fighting. He was a human punching bag and didn’t fight back. The ref was standing there allowing this to happen. He didn’t stop it. Thought (13) Henrik was buying time. The Sens were spending a great deal of time in our end and this was planned. Goaltenders do this all the time. Agree with you on the second puck: wierd.