Not just because of all his cheapshots and antics. He's still just too much of a liability in his own end.

IMO Prust would be ideal, but I don't see NYR letting him walk. I think Tootoo would have the most points/dollar of the 4th line players mentioned in this thread. His game isn't perfect, but a Tootoo-Helm/Abby-Miller line would be a great 3rd/4th line.

As long as there aren't Tootoo whistles at the Joe, I would be okay with the Wings signing him.

IMO Prust would be ideal, but I don't see NYR letting him walk. I think Tootoo would have the most points/dollar of the 4th line players mentioned in this thread. His game isn't perfect, but a Tootoo-Helm/Abby-Miller line would be a great 3rd/4th line.

As long as there aren't Tootoo whistles at the Joe, I would be okay with the Wings signing him.

Abby had more fights and more points than Nystrom this season.

With that said, I've wanted Nystrom for a few seasons.

Abby had one more point than Nystrom in several more games. I'd take Nystrom's 16 goals and grit over anything Abby does.

In any case, this 4th line needs a major makeover. Seeing Homer and Mursak out there with Emmerton made me want to puke. Worst 4th line I've ever seen.

Abby had one more point than Nystrom in several more games. I'd take Nystrom's 16 goals and grit over anything Abby does.

In any case, this 4th line needs a major makeover. Seeing Homer and Mursak out there with Emmerton made me want to puke. Worst 4th line I've ever seen.

well considering the fourth line last year was Homer, Emmerton, Mursak, and the fourth line this year will be some combination of Helm, Miller, Eaves, Abby, Cleary, and Bert...I'd say we've automatically improved without making a single move.

sidenote: I like Nystrom too. Real good hockey player with some grit and a pretty good shot.

Several topics have been focusing on the offseason, and the pressure is clearly on Ken to shake things up. Personally, I feel that we need at least one sniper, and at least one grinder for the bottom 6 that will give the 4th line some identity and make this team harder to play against. Obviously, a guy that can contribute offensively once in a blue moon, and a guy capable of skating a regular shift. This list (To nobody's surprise) will focus on the grit aspect. Below is the mother of all lists of both UFAs and RFAs that I feel will make this team harder to play against. The player's age, stats, and cap hit are included.

FORWARDS (UFA):

*Shane Doan- 35 years old, 50 points and 48 penalty minutes in 79 games, $4.55 mil. He's be a good addition for the top 6. Ideally, I'd like someone younger but he is still an effective player and leader.*Travis Moen- 30 years old, 16 points and 41 penalty minutes in 48 games, $1.5 mil. Injured for a majority of the year. Personally, I'd like to find someone a little younger, but I definitely would be happy if we found a way to get this guy in a Wings jersey.*Jordin Tootoo- 29 years old, 30 points and 92 penalty minutes in 77 games, $1.25 mil. I think he played in 1 game in the series against us, so I'm not sure if Nashville is planning on bringing him back next year or not. Not many like him, but I think he would be a good addition to the team.Adam Burish- 29 years old, 19 points and 76 penalty minutes in 65 games, $1.15 mil*Gregory Campbell- 28 years old, 16 points and 80 penalty minutes in 78 games, $1.1 mil. I'd be shocked if Boston parted ways with him, but he's a solid faceoff guys and a specialist on the penalty kill.*Jim Slater- 29 years old, 21 points and 42 penalty minutes in 78 games, $1 mil*Taylor Pyatt- 30 years old, 19 points and 23 penalty minutes in 73 games, $1 mil*Dan Winnik- 27 years old, 23 points and 52 penalty minutes in 84 games. $950,000*Colin Fraser- 27 years old, 8 points and 67 penalty minutes in 67 games, $825,000.*Brandon Prust- 28 years old, 17 points and 156 penalty minutes in 82 games, $800,000. My first choice would be this guy. He does everything out there. I'd be surprised if the Rangers let him go.*Jake Dowell- 27 years old, 7 points and 53 penalty minutes in 52 games, $800,000*Arron Asham- 34 years old, 16 points and 76 penalty minutes in 64 games, $775,000. I lost a bit of respect for him after the crosscheck to the face of Schenn, but he'd be a decent addition. I'd like to see us get someone younger, though.*Ryan Carter- 28 years old, 8 points and 84 penalty minutes in 72 games, $750,000*Tanner Glass- 28 years old, 16 points and 73 penalty minutes in 78 games, $750,000. Another one of my favorites. Had a decent year offensively. *Joey Crabb- 29 years old, 26 points and 33 penalty minutes in 67 games, $750,000*Brad Winchester- 31 years old, 10 points and 88 penalty minutes in 67 games, $725,000*Scott Nichol- 37 years old, 8 points and 83 penalty minutes in 80 games, $700,000. He's a bit too old at this point.*Zenon Konopka- 31 years old, 5 points and 193 penalty minutes in 55 games, $700,000*Brandon Yip- 27 years old, 7 points and 20 penalty minutes in 35 games, $700,000*Byron Bitz- 27 years old, 4 points and 14 penalty minutes in 10 games, $700,000*Rod Pelley- 27 years old, 3 points and 16 penalty minutes in 52 games, $550,000*Warren Peters- 29 years old, 5 points and 54 penalty minutes in 58 games, $537,500

I'd consider the following to be a 13th forward to dress when we play a tougher team, like the Blues.

although, even though I really REALLY hope for it, I know it is highly unlikely that Franzen and Cleary will be shipped out, but honestly, any lineup that includes Franzen, Cleary & Hudler will NEVER be tough or even hard to play against. This is Holland's off-season to prove to everyone in Detroit and the NHL that they are serious about winning The Cup every year they can. He needs to make an impact on this lineup over the summer. All UFA's need to go bye bye (Sorry Lids, I just don't see the drive in you anymore, but if you find it, we have $2M waiting for you!) and all of Franzen, Cleary, Emmerton and Mursak need to be traded...It's go time...this will define Holland's ability, with Lids and Holmsrtom likely retiring, he official steps out of what Scotty Bowman and into an entire team HE builds. I do beleive those two are the last players from the Scotty Bowman era...

Hmmmm...didn't we win our last Stanley Cup with those THREE players? They can be tough when they are healthy, right? Weak teams don't win cups

Toughness isn't hitting or fighting, or at least the toughness the Wings need.

They need puck hounds, people who fight for the puck, not fight for the fight. Anyone who has wheels in the corners, wheels to the net. I'd rather have Dustin Brown or Pavelski than anyone on your list, and neither of them would be considered fighters. Brown would fit the tough guy mold perhaps due to hits... but it isn't the reason you are going for it.

I really cannot agree with your premise at all. The Wings would have won if they played the way the Kings do...

I can get behind Doan on your list, Garrison as well... Way to get two people on a list of 50 that are worth signing... I mean, unless you rather get fighting PIMs than wins.

Tootoo does NOT belong on this team. He is classless and I would rather see the Wings be bad than classless. I feel the same way about Bertuzzi as well, but he at least CAN make the team better. With Tootoo the team becomes worse and in danger of being classless. Would you have liked Claude on the team? Or Roy? No. So why would you be okay with that POS.

This thread has been closed due to emotions being higher than people's ability to read, interpret, and properly respond to simple posts.

Toughness isn't hitting or fighting, or at least the toughness the Wings need.

They need puck hounds, people who fight for the puck, not fight for the fight. Anyone who has wheels in the corners, wheels to the net. I'd rather have Dustin Brown or Pavelski than anyone on your list, and neither of them would be considered fighters. Brown would fit the tough guy mold perhaps due to hits... but it isn't the reason you are going for it.

I really cannot agree with your premise at all. The Wings would have won if they played the way the Kings do...

I can get behind Doan on your list, Garrison as well... Way to get two people on a list of 50 that are worth signing... I mean, unless you rather get fighting PIMs than wins.

"The Wings would have won if they played like the Kings"....In order for us to play more like the Kings, we need to add a little snarl to our lineup (Which LA's lineup has, in the forms of King, Nolan, Fraser, Mitchell, Clifford), hence the list of players that would help us play like the Kings. But you're right, I just want a bunch of goons in the lineup to pile up penalty minutes.

The list would have featured more top 6 players and 1st pairing defensemen, had it actually been focusing on top 6 players and 1st pairing defensemen. Had it been about top 6 players and 1st pairing defensemen, it would have turned into another Parise/Suter thread, just like every otherf****** thread so far this summer.

Also, Pavelski and Brown are diving pieces of s***. I don't want either of those dickwads on the team, so that's another reason I didn't bother to mention them.

You caught me though. I just want nothing but goons on the team, which is why the whole list is full of absolutely nobody but talentless goons that can barely stand on their skates like Pyatt, Oshie, Carter, Slater, Campbell, Burish, Downie, Martin, Tootoo, Winnik, Crabb, etc.

"The Wings would have won if they played like the Kings"....In order for us to play more like the Kings, we need to add a little snarl to our lineup (Which LA's lineup has, in the forms of King, Nolan, Fraser, Mitchell, Clifford), hence the list of players that would help us play like the Kings. But you're right, I just want a bunch of goons in the lineup to pile up penalty minutes.

The list would have featured more top 6 players and 1st pairing defensemen, had it actually been focusing on top 6 players and 1st pairing defensemen. Had it been about top 6 players and 1st pairing defensemen, it would have turned into another Parise/Suter thread, just like every otherf****** thread so far this summer.

Also, Pavelski and Brown are diving pieces of s***. I don't want either of those dickwads on the team, so that's another reason I didn't bother to mention them.

You caught me though. I just want nothing but goons on the team, which is why the whole list is full of absolutely nobody but talentless goons that can barely stand on their skates like Pyatt, Oshie, Carter, Slater, Campbell, Burish, Downie, Martin, Tootoo, Winnik, Crabb, etc.

We have plenty of those guys. Is a top 6 forward needed? Yes. I find it laughable when people think we need all this scoring when they Wings were one of the highest scoring teams in the NHL this past season.

We have plenty of those guys. Is a top 6 forward needed? Yes. I find it laughable when people think we need all this scoring when they Wings were one of the highest scoring teams in the NHL this past season.

that's cause in the playoffs the Wings had no one who went to the front of the net and they didn't win battles in the dirty areas or attack the middle of the ice (aside from Z) the way a guy like, i don't know....Parise does. Insert him and it completely changes the way our top is and opens up more opportunities for everyone. also, Nyquist should be in the top 6. bottom 6, Prust would be perfect as someone said prior to play with Abdelkader. Eaves coming back hopefully too would provide a boost and another right handed shot that we sorely need.

that's cause in the playoffs the Wings had no one who went to the front of the net and they didn't win battles in the dirty areas or attack the middle of the ice (aside from Z) the way a guy like, i don't know....Parise does. Insert him and it completely changes the way our top is and opens up more opportunities for everyone. also, Nyquist should be in the top 6. bottom 6, Prust would be perfect as someone said prior to play with Abdelkader. Eaves coming back hopefully too would provide a boost and another right handed shot that we sorely need.

Agreed, too many perimeter players on this team who lacked hustle and heart this past playoff. Parise will help but this current team has bigger problems than scoring goals right now.

We have plenty of those guys. Is a top 6 forward needed? Yes. I find it laughable when people think we need all this scoring when they Wings were one of the highest scoring teams in the NHL this past season.

I agree but I was replying to a comment that said "I want nothing but goons on the team".