This computer model says it’s China’s fault. Other computer models say it’s global warming/climate change. Where’s that Watson computer from Jeopardy to host a battle of the computer models and sort this out?

China’s air pollution could be intensifying storms over the Pacific Ocean and altering weather patterns in North America, according to scientists in the US. A team from Texas, California and Washington state has found that pollution from Asia, much of it arising in China, is leading to more intense cyclones, increased precipitation and more warm air in the mid-Pacific moving towards the north pole.

Perfect example of people (on both sides of the issue!) who mix “climate” and “weather”.
If you want to speak about climate change you must follow over hundreds and thousands of years. One cold or warm winter, one strong or weak tornado or hurricane season, even several of them – are weather, not climate. In between weather scale and climate scale are normal, somewhat periodic general weather patterns measured in decades (El Nino is just the most famous of those.
And in the last sentence is a part of proof that current couple years of weak tornado seasons and increasingly cold winters and say, very dry California and South… are part of a well known and documented cycle. So much so that meteorologist were predicting what is happening a year ago when weak tornado season started. Extremely cold US Winter have been predicted well in advance. Not fitting data backward to prove your favorite theory but advance prediction from the known past.
Key for current weather pattern is cyclical natural cooling of the Pacific. Nothing to do with human activity, climate change be it warming or cooling. Observed many times in the past with same consequences.
Above article was just seeking for some human activity that can be blamed somewhat plausibly. But, if cycle repeats itself over decades and hundreds of years, scientifically observed – why now by human acts?
Finally, if climate (and weather) would stop changing – I’d be worried. Non-changing climate is unnatural …

Good Unc Dave: your first heading is not clear to me. At least one missing modifier on top of being sarcastic?==good luck.

The import that pollution can alter weather? Yea verily! But the article is way to iffy. Everything is related to everything else is all it amounts to. Not a definite statement of causation to be found.

You know what “scientists” do say is causation? Thats right: AGW thats going to dramatically change weather in the all too near future of Now + 100 years. I know: also all too easy to ignore.

This study is PRO reducing co2 pollution, aka AGW, aka our need to get on the green energy route to salvation……YET…. I called it iffy.

See how that works?

Are you and Pedro riding side saddle together these days?

………………Unc Dave: after a good nights rest, the heading makes more sense to me… or did you add the question mark? Very clever to construct a concomitant casual connection?

I will dither: ……….. because ……….. I find even myself while in the full grip of AGW, still don’t come to grips with its import. Which is: we are all doomed. The oceans will rise destroying much of our infrastructure in time frames that our culture cannot adapt to. Population levels will crumble.

“Past the tipping point.” //// Used to be 350 ppm, current levels are now 400 increasinly rapidly going to 450 and above.

IF YOU ACCEPT SCIENCE…its all going to happen now. Sooner rather than later as we are all still unable to come to grips with the SCIENCE of the matter.

Very telling that like yeast in a wine bottle, the human civilization is going to crash NOT because of food shortages, or disease, but we are going to collapse because of our own shit. Very Interestingly, not the organic shit from covering the planet in monoculture crops and eating that, no, the waste product of creating the energy we need to grow those crops, move them, package them … and all related activities of our culture.

Whats sad is that such an end could have been prevented had we accepted the SCIENCE that was self evident years before the tipping point was reached….. but we are but animals. Emotional/Religious==not SCIENCE. Is that a twist on the sin of Pride/Hubris?? I think so.

Not you and me. Maybe our kiddies will be engaged in fulltime climate change correction…but I think our grand kiddies will be burying the bodies.

Where are these more intense cyclones? According to the IPCC SREX, there is no evidence of increasing hurricanes, either number or intensity, to date. Chinese pollution melting the Arctic has been concluded before, particularly the black soot.

The bad winter caused by global warming hasn’t been reached by any computer models, just alarmists unwilling to concede a point.

The article you linked is full of pro-AGW misinformation and propaganda.

Note that I did not say that we humans are not polluting the planet.

The “hockey stick” model mentioned in the article has been thrown out by every scientist with a brain as being false.
The sea levels are not rising faster per century, check the facts and actual measurements.

The problem still comes down to the fact that there is no good way to solve the issue.
If we don’t use fossil fuels then what do we use? There is no better alternative at this point in time and technology.
Nuclear? One word: Japan.
Wind? Real estate requirements; What do regions that are less windy do; Impact on wildlife/birds.
Solar? The sun only shines for half the day; The manufacture and disposal of the battery systems are worse pollutants than fossil fuels; What do northern and southern regions do.
Hydrogen? Sure, let’s have everyone driving around on a massive bomb.

bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist and junior history buffsays:

Too many people don’t see a way out of using fossil fuels so they go up a notch, up the chain of social policy, to debate the science of the issue.

Thats called: stupid or dishonest or both.

AGW is either happening or its not. WHAT WE DO TO PREVENT IT is a whole different set of issues.

The issue of AGW comes down to: what burning sequestered co2 does to the atmosphere as a DIRECT RESULT.

As to solutions?==check all of the above and look to ways to capture atmospheric co2 and sequester it. I like turning it into building compounds. Let a waste product be turned into a resource sort of thing.

Advances being made all over the place. Hard to scale up though compared to just burning coal.

That’s where the carbon needs to go. If only people would spend more time growing productive soil instead of coddling a bunch of life-sapping shit and lawnboys only to liberally water with that gene–pool-altering, mutagenic FuckUp(tm).

You could have gotten the same thing from the link I posted. People who have acknowledged a pause: James Hansen, Gavin Schmidt, latest IPCC report,…

The ‘there is no pause’ is just another line being used to try and fool the sheeple. They weren’t talking about ocean heat until the surface temperatures stopped. Note it was a quasi-skeptic Roger Pielke Sr who first talked about ocean heat, and then the scientists were ridiculing him for it, claiming that surface temperatures is where it’s at. Now the models fail to model the surface temperatures, and they claim it’s all in the oceans. So what they are essentially saying is that the models fail at modelling the #1 factor in global warming.

Pretty obvious, a pause that is not predicted, suggests that maybe global warming is not as bad as predicted. Lower your estimates for how much global warming you will get in a century, when you have one sixth of a century with very little warming. And the previous few decades with warming well below the level you are predicting.

Climate models are basically built in with assumptions of lots of warming, the models are run for a few days, and voila, they have predicted lots of warming.

Saying there will be 2C of warming is one thing, saying there will be 4C,6C or more doesn’t look reasonable when the first part of your prediction is nowhere close.

bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist and junior history buffsays:

Hey Mickey — I laugh. I remember thinking you had some kind of weird disconnected expertise in climate science? Maybe you just cut and paste real good?

Anyhoo: from the last link I posted, seems to me the analysis was that “there is no pause” and the position is that the pause claim is made by reference only to some kind of surface air temp? The big point which must be true is that the Earth stores heating and cooling in the Oceans.

Meanwhile–the sea level keeps rising, ice everywhere except Antarctica keeps melting at increasing rates, and co2 level are also accelerating===IE==>NO PAUSE AT ALL but rather acceleration.

Source?
You might want to google the list of world-wide expanding glaciers before you make such face-palm-worthy false claims.
Of course the pro-GW twerps will only mention those ice-fields that are shrinking and never mention those that are growing, since they don’t fit in with their religious diatribe.
Been drinking too much of that GW coolaid eh? :-p

bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist and junior history buffsays:

~85% is not “all”.
So then who is the lying one here?
Stop exaggerating and I’ll stop calling you on it.
Most glaciers have been retreating since the ice age ~13k years ago, it is the increase in retreat that is important.

bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist and junior history buffsays:

deegee demonstrating a common tragic defect in otherwise intelligent competent people says:
4/18/2014 at 2:22 pm

~85% is not “all”. /// Yes, thats math. Who said 85% and who said all? Quick review: only YOU!

So then who is the lying one here? /// According to the math: only YOU!

Stop exaggerating and I’ll stop calling you on it. /// See above.

Most glaciers have been retreating since the ice age ~13k years ago, it is the increase in retreat that is important. /// Not being a climate scientist, I agree. …. and the retreat is at a gallop. What fly speck of a difference do you want to loose your relevancy on?

Where are these more intense cyclones? According to the IPCC SREX, there is no evidence of increasing hurricanes, either number or intensity, to date. //// Yes…. the key is: “to date.” What is it about an early warning about effects to take place 100 years from now do you think is invalidated because its not happening now? You can’t be more head up your ass than this comment.

Chinese pollution melting the Arctic has been concluded before, particularly the black soot. /// Yes, and that IS HAPPENING NOW…. so again… what is it about what your own lying eyes can see that you don’t accept?

The bad winter caused by global warming hasn’t been reached by any computer models, just alarmists unwilling to concede a point. /// Bad winters–ie weather extremes is what the models predict. Colder winters, warmer summers while they average out to steady increasing warmth. Thats why they wanted to change the Label from Global Warming to Climate Change because idiot shills like yourself would use the weather in their own backyard as proof against the average.

You so stupid. If God were just he make the physics so that idiots like you bred out…. but god is busy elsewhere.

Religion is when NO AMOUNT OF CONTRARY EVIDENCE is acceptable. So I wasn’t trying to change your mind since you have shown countless times that this is your religion. Rather, I was assuming you would respond as you did. You abuse yourself (from a thinking person’s point of view).

There is no conclusive objective evidence that ‘climate change’ is man made. It could be tho. We don’t know yet.

I am getting a bit worn out though. The issues and arguments do get repetitive. Time to actually clean out my garage?==>then what?

I am recharged a bit though by AGW as I only last month or so tripped into the reality of its consequences. What do words mean?===> A super storm could sink New York or London etc. Even a single cities electrical demise could disrupt world wide economic systems for just a few weeks. What would that actually “do” in our system? Civilization is like a rubber band. It can stretch and accommodate, but when broken, it cannot be fixed. Its broken. You throw it out and get a new rubber band. That takes…. time.

I do assume “catastrophes” will happen that don’t destroy us that will cause everyone to understand what SCIENCE has been saying for the last 20-30 years. Arguably, even then, the needed changes won’t be agreed to. You know how resistant people are to SCIENCE. “I kill rhinoceroses for their horn powder even though I know it is not effect BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT MY FATHER DID.” Thats how stupid we are.

So, we are doomed. I have said that before I really thought about it. Now I’m feeling it. Heh, heh==even now, a certain “comfort” that we are not living in the consequence zone….. other than dengue fever resurging in Florida and all those silly biological zones shifting North and getting warmer. We’ve always had mosquitoes…. right?

When I observe my own denial mechanism at work, I assume others are just like me…. and not just like me.

Sorry deegee==too much unnecessary pain and misery, death and disease, to welcome any such catassfuckery.

Check you emotions. Are you confusing/conflating the very real recognition that its GOING to happen, and that we certainly DESERVE it, with being happy for it?

Thats at least two different things.

No…. I weep for my fellow man. THEY might even deserve it….. but the kiddies are innocent.

I do weep for the kiddies. They have no say in the issue and will garner all the consequences. Yeah, we have them over the old stump in the field and are simply looking for the biggest foreign object we can find to finish them off.

A large percentage of the children worldwide are and have been starving and without the basic necessities of life for many generations, it did not start with my generation, and it did not start with “global warming”.

Do you support any children in poor countries, so that they have food and water and clothing and can go to school? I do (Rom through WV). And the fall of our corrupt world empire will be nothing but positive for everyone including the children.

bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist and junior history buffsays:

The poor, disproportionately the kiddies, are and always will be “poor” in relative if not absolute terms. That being the case, AGW and the disaster to fully develop will make their already precarious and miserable situation==>EVEN WORSE. Collapse of technical/nitrogen fertilized/carbon based civilization will cause a population collapse. The kiddies will go from poor and undernourished to DEAD.

Well, bobbo; Why don’t you lobby congress for a war on poor people? /// Why lobby to fight a war that has already been won? You don’t make any sense!

Umm.. did they find that plane yet? /// Malay 370? Nope. Already spent 250MM or will spend or whatever??? Heh, heh. I gotta wonder about the cost/benefit ratio there. Planes crash. When the human element is clearly mostly at play, nothing to learn really. A dollar spent, is a dollar wasted.

Beer and Waffles.

bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist and junior history buffsays:

That’s where the carbon needs to go. If only people would spend more time growing productive soil instead of coddling a bunch of life-sapping shit and lawnboys only to liberally water with that gene–pool-altering, mutagenic FuckUp(tm). /// I’ve read about charcoal in the soil before and didn’t give it much credibility thinking it would be coverted to gaseous co2 fairly quickly. Your link says I am wrong on that. Good news.

I was thinking more of carbon chains that can be made from co2 waste products and turned into building bricks, concrete, plastics, road tar, and such==heck even new report on making it into aviation fuel. Again, for what the human race is faced with is the issue of scaling up and the time frame. AKA==our grandkiddies are doomed.

That said, I may be confusing/conflating too many issues. What WILL HAPPEN when the sea level comes up 15 feet over the course of 50 years 100 years from now? I think maybe civilization can take that hit and move uphill. I conflated that with idea that if the ocean comes up 15 feet we will also be hit with co2 offgasing from frozen methane fields, feeding bacteria that turn that into HS2 and a global poisoning and die off. Those are two separate events. Can’t say how closely related they are. I fear….. BOTH in our futures.

“”I was thinking more of carbon chains that can be made from co2 waste products and turned into building bricks, concrete, plastics, road tar, and such==heck even new report on making it into aviation fuel.

Hmm. That’s what the hemp was for {cellulose/methanol}? All this good and growing soil and I guess I’ll just sit around and plan how heartbleed can facilitate the giving of herpes to dea, stack, various other odorous ‘drug’ warriors just because thats how the cookie crumbles. And maybe grow some thyme for growndcover.

bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist and junior history buffsays:

Good catch. It doesn’t have to be all new high tech. Some kind of plant fiber can obviously be chopped up to replace pebbles or whatever. I think I read about such a technique, but I don’t want to be guilty of log rolling.

Certainly: all of the above will have to be maximized if we are to have any corrective effect of burning all the carbon we will have to do for years to come before green energy can take over.

Hey Timmmy — Beer and Waffles. There is a fancy word I’ve been trying to remember for 5 years now about a sequence that is out of order: I had two waffles for breakfast, more than two beers so far for dinner. ((Note to bobbo: its Waffles and Beer!))

One of my feeds showed Dogs, Cats, and a Rat on the streets of LA. Living in harmony. Easy to stage when everyone is well fed. Otherwise: the rat is first to go.

Yeah—I don’t know what the fuck you mean to mean by reference to other ages with other stimuli and effects. …… and I bet YOU don’t either. Confused by the words involved. Hah, hah.

All that shit eons ago took MILLIONS OF YEARS TO OCCUR. The whole issue today is that being MAN MADE: ITS going to happen over 1-2-3 hundred years.

Well, I don’t think the word you’re looking for would be ‘anachronism’ as that would be things out of place with respect to their proper time.

Good point, anyways. Yes. Millions of years. I should hope humanity is out in microgravity/ zero g by then — Making just all kinds of perfect, puffy planets. I suppose evil rich people will make their planets so that some hidden flaw in the orbital path causes them to collide with the good planets in a few hundred light years…

Btw, that little girl asking if dog cat rat were ‘attached to eachother’ was pretty spot on — They could have been stapled at one paw or electrostatically attracted by the ionizing action of carefully applied smokeless cigarette modules. It’s probably hidden in special kevlar claw-gripper vest the dog is wearing.

bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist and junior history buffsays:

The example given when I saw the word was “The soldier saddled his horse, rode away, and blew his bugle.” The Correct order would be that riding away would be the last item of the list depending on what the soldier actually did.

I remember it clearly because I thought a better example of missed order would be that the “Soldier saddled his bugle, blew his horse, and rode away.” …. but that is probably an example of something else. It is informative that all these word/idea transposition do all have specific words for them. Fun to read from time to time.

one last stab at it then. {I’m sorry; I thought I’d posted this already..}

“”Nonlinear narrative, disjointed narrative or disrupted narrative is a narrative technique, … , where events are portrayed, for example out of chronological order, or in other ways where the narrative does not follow the direct causality pattern of the events featured, …

like this — ** Well, here I am just scurrying along for my life through the sewers of sadness, and sediton, and the shame of Boston Strong. Also, I’m in the wrong shaft of the underground. It’s pretty true, after all, that people shouldn’t flush their turtles, alligators, and budgies… but, this is all after my quinoa exploded all over Boylston Street, one fine April morn…

The population of China is equivalent to the population of North America, South America, Australia, New Zealand, and all of Western Europe — combined.

In 2010, 674 million Chinese people were classified as rural — a number, though no longer growing, is still more than twice as great as the population of any other country in the world besides China and India.

There are over 160 cities in China with a population over one million people. In the United States, there are nine.

These days, China’s problem isn’t that there are too many people or too few, but rather that there are too many boys being born for every girl, and that the population is too old.

Compared to China with 1.34 billion residents, followed by India with 1.19 billion, the United States is a distant third with 311.1 million people.

If anyone is convinced that humans contribute the most to climate change, it follows that China and India must take the lead in reducing mankind’s carbon footprint.

Don’t hold your breath.

bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist and junior history buffsays:

A quibble: its not the population of China and India that creates their carbon footprint but rather that these countries by intent and accident have become the MANUFACTURING centers for the less polluting/more consuming WEST. Of course, its a mix of the two.

Because China is so large, I think they are installing more SOLAR/green energy production units while at the same time building more coal power plants per week than the rest of the world. They be growing. Ha, ha. All those stiff chinese dicks with no where to plunge. Image in 10 years: ads on Google for American Wives to emmigrate to China…. and India.

HORRRRRRRORS!!!

Its the market place. What do you think is going to happen?==eh??

All gonna die from co2 poisoning anyway. Don’t you get it????? Gonna get it anyway. Reality is like that.

China produces about 23% of world’s greenhouse gases, the US 19%, and India 6%.

In fairness, US CO2 has been relatively flat while Asia has been growing. Mainly you can thank California for enforcing emission standards (industrial and consumer) on the rest of the US. Also declining industrial output has helped.

The reality is that the US has the economic reach to enforce new standards on the rest of the world.

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