ImpendingCynic:Sgt Otter: He also has a ton of Good Conduct Medal ribbons (the red ribbon with the white vertical stripes on the ends, with a bronze bar across it). The GCM is only awarded to enlisted soldiers, and not officers.

If he had earned it while enlisted, and was then commissioned, would he still wear it? (just curious, don't know the rules there)

Yes, if he had been prior enlisted, he would still wear the Good Conduct Medal. You automatically earn them for not screwing up too badly every three years. Your first three years gets you the ribbon itself. The next one has a bronze "clasp" worn on top of the ribbon, with every knot on the clasp signifying an additional award.

It's hard for me to tell, but it looks like there's at least two or three knots, signifying that he went over to the officer side of the house after at least nine or twelve years, then starting back up the career path as a 2nd Lieutenant all the way to Brigadier General, which normally takes at least 20 years. Most guys other than 4-stars and the Sergeant Major of the Army hit mandatory retirement at 30 years of service.

/Just noticed he should have a star on his National Defense medal for two wars, for serving during both the Gulf War and Iraq/Afghanistan.

Sgt Otter:His unit awards (the larger ribbons above his nametag) should be on a bar to keep them neat and orderly, and you're only authorized three in a row. The fourth should be on another row on top. He also has a ton of Good Conduct Medal ribbons (the red ribbon with the white vertical stripes on the ends, with a bronze bar across it). The GCM is only awarded to enlisted soldiers, and not officers.

He also has a Combat Infantryman Badge with two stars, designated it has been awarded three times (the original badge, and the first and second star signify three awards), which means he had to have fought in three separate wars, and the Army will only give it to you once for fighting in both Iraq and Afghanistan. I don't think there's a single soldier on active duty with a CIB with two stars. He also only has two campaign medals, which basically means he's only been in two combat zones. The Kosovo Campaign Medal (the assymetric red & blue ribbon), and ones for the first Gulf War (the ones in the bottom right corner). He also does not have either an Iraq Campaign Medal or an Afghanistan Campaign Medal. Very odd for an active-duty infantry or Special Forces officer.

The Good Conduct Medal could be because he was a mustang, enlisted first, and then became an officer, but, you are right about everything.

Also, the 2nd medal on the top row, Multinational Force and Observer, should be on the bottom row, not next to the Distinguished Service Cross. The Distinguished Service Medal, his 3rd, should be number 2, the 4th..., No idea, maybe a foreign award, or other service, but no way should it be that high in the cluster. The next 2, Bronze Star and Purple Heart are right, but then another mystery medal. I stopped looking after that, and then noticed his top row is different in the two pictures.

puckrock2000:KidneyStone: "Scary tag for just how close this guy got to certain installations "

I never thought of "none" as particularly alarming

You know how I know you didn't read the whole article?

"Investigators have uncovered evidence that McDowell acquired special access for at least one Fort Worth police association board member to tour the Washington Navy Yard when it was closed to the public."

If some nobody can get after-hours access to the home of the Chief of Naval Operations, then our security is not really up to scratch.

Know how I can tell you don't comprehend what you read? Look at your own quote from the article. It doesn't say anything about Dickhead McFakemedals going anywhere near the joint.

If I'm right, that's a Russian uniform and they include Party and Civilian badges - not just military decorations. Hell, if I put every union pin, Party pin, memento of a work award, and sports award I ever got on a jacket, I'd look pretty damn silly, too.

Sgt Otter:He has a goatee, which isn't authorized. He's also wearing infantry branch lapel insignia (the crossed rifles), with a Special Forces tab (the blue and gold tab sewn to his shoulder). Special Forces officers wear crossed arrows. I'm not 100% sure, but I think generals stop wearing branch insignia entirely.

His unit awards (the larger ribbons above his nametag) should be on a bar to keep them neat and orderly, and you're only authorized three in a row. The fourth should be on another row on top. He also has a ton of Good Conduct Medal ribbons (the red ribbon with the white vertical stripes on the ends, with a bronze bar across it). The GCM is only awarded to enlisted soldiers, and not officers.

He also has a Combat Infantryman Badge with two stars, designated it has been awarded three times (the original badge, and the first and second star signify three awards), which means he had to have fought in three separate wars, and the Army will only give it to you once for fighting in both Iraq and Afghanistan. I don't think there's a single soldier on active duty with a CIB with two stars. He also only has two campaign medals, which basically means he's only been in two combat zones. The Kosovo Campaign Medal (the assymetric red & blue ribbon), and ones for the first Gulf War (the ones in the bottom right corner). He also does not have either an Iraq Campaign Medal or an Afghanistan Campaign Medal. Very odd for an active-duty infantry or Special Forces officer.

He has a goatee, which isn't authorized. He's also wearing infantry branch lapel insignia (the crossed rifles), with a Special Forces tab (the blue and gold tab sewn to his shoulder). Special Forces officers wear crossed arrows. I'm not 100% sure, but I think generals stop wearing branch insignia entirely.

[media.star-telegram.com image 600x448]

His unit awards (the larger ribbons above his nametag) should be on a bar to keep them neat and orderly, and you're only authorized three in a row. The fourth should be on another row on top. He also has a ton of Good Conduct Medal ribbons (the red ribbon with the white vertical stripes on the ends, with a bronze bar across it). The GCM is only awarded to enlisted soldiers, and not officers.

He also has a Combat Infantryman Badge with two stars, designated it has been awarded three times (the original badge, and the first and second star signify three awards), which means he had to have fought in three separate wars, and the Army will only give it to you once for fighting in both Iraq and Afghanistan. I don't think there's a single soldier on active duty with a CIB with two stars. He also only has two campaign medals, which basically means he's only been in two combat zones. The Kosovo Campaign Medal (the assymetric red & blue ribbon), and ones for the first Gulf War (the ones in the bottom right corner). He also does not have either an Iraq Campaign Medal or an Afghanistan Campaign Medal. Very odd for an active-duty infantry or Special Forces officer.

Amongst all the stuff you pointed out, he has only a single AAM and a single ARCOMM which is odd considering that at least when I was in they gave those things away to junior officers like candy for performance during field exercises and such, you'd think a one star general would have a few more of them.

Funny how these asshats always go overboard with that shiat. He's got what looks like a Ranger Scroll on his left shoulder saying he's in a Ranger unit, Pathfinder wings, HALO wings, Jumpmaster wings, but I can't tell from those pics if they're supposed to be combat jump wings or not.

He has a goatee, which isn't authorized. He's also wearing infantry branch lapel insignia (the crossed rifles), with a Special Forces tab (the blue and gold tab sewn to his shoulder). Special Forces officers wear crossed arrows. I'm not 100% sure, but I think generals stop wearing branch insignia entirely.

[media.star-telegram.com image 600x448]

His unit awards (the larger ribbons above his nametag) should be on a bar to keep them neat and orderly, and you're only authorized three in a row. The fourth should be on another row on top. He also has a ton of Good Conduct Medal ribbons (the red ribbon with the white vertical stripes on the ends, with a bronze bar across it). The GCM is only awarded to enlisted soldiers, and not officers.

He also has a Combat Infantryman Badge with two stars, designated it has been awarded three times (the original badge, and the first and second star signify three awards), which means he had to have fought in three separate wars, and the Army will only give it to you once for fighting in both Iraq and Afghanistan. I don't think there's a single soldier on active duty with a CIB with two stars. He also only has two campaign medals, which basically means he's only been in two combat zones. The Kosovo Campaign Medal (the assymetric red & blue ribbon), and ones for the first Gulf War (the ones in the bottom right corner). He also does not have either an Iraq Campaign Medal or an Afghanistan Campaign Medal. Very odd for an active-duty infantry or Special Forces officer.

Amongst all the stuff you pointed out, he has only a single AAM and a single ARCOMM which is odd considering that at least when I was in they gave those things away to junior officers like candy for performance during field exercises and such, you'd think a one star general would have a few more of them.

Funny how these asshats always go overboard with that shiat. He's got what looks like a Ranger Scroll on hi ...

Eh, I take that back, the tab under the Special Forces tab on his shoulder doesn't quite look like a ranger scroll, but I'm not sure what it is. Maybe just the airborne tab. Still my point stands, dudes got way too much that doesn't jive on the uniform.

He has a goatee, which isn't authorized. He's also wearing infantry branch lapel insignia (the crossed rifles), with a Special Forces tab (the blue and gold tab sewn to his shoulder). Special Forces officers wear crossed arrows. I'm not 100% sure, but I think generals stop wearing branch insignia entirely.

[media.star-telegram.com image 600x448]

His unit awards (the larger ribbons above his nametag) should be on a bar to keep them neat and orderly, and you're only authorized three in a row. The fourth should be on another row on top. He also has a ton of Good Conduct Medal ribbons (the red ribbon with the white vertical stripes on the ends, with a bronze bar across it). The GCM is only awarded to enlisted soldiers, and not officers.

He also has a Combat Infantryman Badge with two stars, designated it has been awarded three times (the original badge, and the first and second star signify three awards), which means he had to have fought in three separate wars, and the Army will only give it to you once for fighting in both Iraq and Afghanistan. I don't think there's a single soldier on active duty with a CIB with two stars. He also only has two campaign medals, which basically means he's only been in two combat zones. The Kosovo Campaign Medal (the assymetric red & blue ribbon), and ones for the first Gulf War (the ones in the bottom right corner). He also does not have either an Iraq Campaign Medal or an Afghanistan Campaign Medal. Very odd for an active-duty infantry or Special Forces officer.

He's also got his unit awards out of order of precedence, unless I'm mistaken (valorous takes precedence over meritorious), and it's been a while, but...is that a multinational observer ribbon upper left? Again, been a while (and my ribbons and medals are buried in a box somewhere in the garage), but don't international awards fall at the bottom of the precedence order? Or has 670-1 changed since I was in?

He has a goatee, which isn't authorized. He's also wearing infantry branch lapel insignia (the crossed rifles), with a Special Forces tab (the blue and gold tab sewn to his shoulder). Special Forces officers wear crossed arrows. I'm not 100% sure, but I think generals stop wearing branch insignia entirely.

[media.star-telegram.com image 600x448]

His unit awards (the larger ribbons above his nametag) should be on a bar to keep them neat and orderly, and you're only authorized three in a row. The fourth should be on another row on top. He also has a ton of Good Conduct Medal ribbons (the red ribbon with the white vertical stripes on the ends, with a bronze bar across it). The GCM is only awarded to enlisted soldiers, and not officers.

He also has a Combat Infantryman Badge with two stars, designated it has been awarded three times (the original badge, and the first and second star signify three awards), which means he had to have fought in three separate wars, and the Army will only give it to you once for fighting in both Iraq and Afghanistan. I don't think there's a single soldier on active duty with a CIB with two stars. He also only has two campaign medals, which basically means he's only been in two combat zones. The Kosovo Campaign Medal (the assymetric red & blue ribbon), and ones for the first Gulf War (the ones in the bottom right corner). He also does not have either an Iraq Campaign Medal or an Afghanistan Campaign Medal. Very odd for an active-duty infantry or Special Forces officer.

Amongst all the stuff you pointed out, he has only a single AAM and a single ARCOMM which is odd considering that at least when I was in they gave those things away to junior officers like candy for performance during field exercises and such, you'd think a one star general would have a few more of them.

Funny how these asshats always go overboard with that shiat. He's got what looks like ...

Hell I was a junior NCO and have ARCOMs for just doing my damn job... I know a naval seaman who was awarded an ARCOM for stopping to render assistance at Ft. Sam Houston years ago--he was detached to our Army unit at the time, and so he got an ARCOM because Ft. Sam doesn't get to give out the naval equivalent.

Aigoo:He's also got his unit awards out of order of precedence, unless I'm mistaken (valorous takes precedence over meritorious), and it's been a while, but...is that a multinational observer ribbon upper left? Again, been a while (and my ribbons and medals are buried in a box somewhere in the garage), but don't international awards fall at the bottom of the precedence order? Or has 670-1 changed since I was in?

Nope, you're right. I just went to rackbuilder and tried to put in what I remember as the ribbons I had and I added the the multinational ribbon and it goes below even the gay pride ribbon(Army Service Ribbon). Also just noticed that despite the years it would have taken to become a General, he doesn't have a single Overseas Service Ribbon, which is about damned near impossible too.

strangeluck: <snip> and the challenge coin case just seems like a 'so what' kind of thing.

You don't actually carry a challenge coin in a case; you carry your highest ranking one 'just in case' but it's in a convenient pocket loose to be dropped during said challenge... I think what you're seeing here is an example of being observant, it is not always possible to put your perceptions to words

modestmanfrommandrake:strangeluck: <snip> and the challenge coin case just seems like a 'so what' kind of thing.

You don't actually carry a challenge coin in a case; you carry your highest ranking one 'just in case' but it's in a convenient pocket loose to be dropped during said challenge... I think what you're seeing here is an example of being observant, it is not always possible to put your perceptions to words

There are two types of people: people who think challenge coins are modestly nifty things and people who also collect beanie babies.

vygramul:Lady Indica: gimmegimme: Lady Indica: gimmegimme: I just hope he didn't return a salute from a higher-ranking officer. That's a felony.

Is it really? I know very little about military stuffs. So not sure if you're joking or not.

I made a joke based upon a thread from earlier today and another from yesterday. The gentleman who made that claim has no proof to support his assertion, but that's what he was told, so it must be true.

Well played (and thanks!)

He's misrepresenting it. It's illegal for a civilian or contractor with access to return salutes (which by definition is from lower-ranking people). I worked for the Navy and that's the warning they gave us before we'd deploy to a ship or base. I don't have a link, so he calls me a liar for it.

I've also said many times that people are welcome to disbelieve me because I'm just some guy on Fark, as far as they know.

Who's misrepresenting? I was in that thread and gimmegimme never once called you a liar. Which I guess now makes you a liar.

404 page not found:vygramul: Lady Indica: gimmegimme: Lady Indica: gimmegimme: I just hope he didn't return a salute from a higher-ranking officer. That's a felony.

Is it really? I know very little about military stuffs. So not sure if you're joking or not.

I made a joke based upon a thread from earlier today and another from yesterday. The gentleman who made that claim has no proof to support his assertion, but that's what he was told, so it must be true.

Well played (and thanks!)

He's misrepresenting it. It's illegal for a civilian or contractor with access to return salutes (which by definition is from lower-ranking people). I worked for the Navy and that's the warning they gave us before we'd deploy to a ship or base. I don't have a link, so he calls me a liar for it.

I've also said many times that people are welcome to disbelieve me because I'm just some guy on Fark, as far as they know.

Who's misrepresenting? I was in that thread and gimmegimme never once called you a liar. Which I guess now makes you a liar.

Hmmm... I guess you could accuse me of improperly extrapolating his saying the truth doesn't matter to me and therefore what I say shouldn't be believed. I guess that isn't calling someone a liar in your book.

vygramul:404 page not found: vygramul: Lady Indica: gimmegimme: Lady Indica: gimmegimme: I just hope he didn't return a salute from a higher-ranking officer. That's a felony.

Is it really? I know very little about military stuffs. So not sure if you're joking or not.

I made a joke based upon a thread from earlier today and another from yesterday. The gentleman who made that claim has no proof to support his assertion, but that's what he was told, so it must be true.

Well played (and thanks!)

He's misrepresenting it. It's illegal for a civilian or contractor with access to return salutes (which by definition is from lower-ranking people). I worked for the Navy and that's the warning they gave us before we'd deploy to a ship or base. I don't have a link, so he calls me a liar for it.

I've also said many times that people are welcome to disbelieve me because I'm just some guy on Fark, as far as they know.

Who's misrepresenting? I was in that thread and gimmegimme never once called you a liar. Which I guess now makes you a liar.

Hmmm... I guess you could accuse me of improperly extrapolating his saying the truth doesn't matter to me and therefore what I say shouldn't be believed. I guess that isn't calling someone a liar in your book.

Look bud, a lot of us have sea stories. But like I said, I was in that thread. He was saying that you shouldn't be believed because you claim something to be a felony and you cannot back that claim up with something substantial, like, you know, A LAW THAT EXPLICITLY STATES IT IS A FELONY.

404 page not found:Look bud, a lot of us have sea stories. But like I said, I was in that thread. He was saying that you shouldn't be believed because you claim something to be a felony and you cannot back that claim up with something substantial, like, you know, A LAW THAT EXPLICITLY STATES IT IS A FELONY.

He said the truth doesn't matter to me and therefore what I say shouldn't be believed.

That's calling me a liar.

I have done nothing but admit that I don't have a source or citation, but for some reason, this only makes you guys even more energetic in making all kinds of assessments about my character.

And laws are frequently left with some room for interpretation. The relevant statute is impersonating an officer. Article 134 gives guidance what constitutes impersonating an officer, but does not present the explicit circumstances that qualify. It doesn't even state that wearing a uniform of an officer constitutes impersonating an officer. This is an interpretation of law, and yes, it's probably written down somewhere, but that doesn't mean it's trivial to Google it.

vygramul:404 page not found: Look bud, a lot of us have sea stories. But like I said, I was in that thread. He was saying that you shouldn't be believed because you claim something to be a felony and you cannot back that claim up with something substantial, like, you know, A LAW THAT EXPLICITLY STATES IT IS A FELONY.

He said the truth doesn't matter to me and therefore what I say shouldn't be believed.

That's calling me a liar.

I have done nothing but admit that I don't have a source or citation, but for some reason, this only makes you guys even more energetic in making all kinds of assessments about my character.

And laws are frequently left with some room for interpretation. The relevant statute is impersonating an officer. Article 134 gives guidance what constitutes impersonating an officer, but does not present the explicit circumstances that qualify. It doesn't even state that wearing a uniform of an officer constitutes impersonating an officer. This is an interpretation of law, and yes, it's probably written down somewhere, but that doesn't mean it's trivial to Google it.

Dingleberry Dickwad:vygramul: 404 page not found: Look bud, a lot of us have sea stories. But like I said, I was in that thread. He was saying that you shouldn't be believed because you claim something to be a felony and you cannot back that claim up with something substantial, like, you know, A LAW THAT EXPLICITLY STATES IT IS A FELONY.

He said the truth doesn't matter to me and therefore what I say shouldn't be believed.

That's calling me a liar.

I have done nothing but admit that I don't have a source or citation, but for some reason, this only makes you guys even more energetic in making all kinds of assessments about my character.

And laws are frequently left with some room for interpretation. The relevant statute is impersonating an officer. Article 134 gives guidance what constitutes impersonating an officer, but does not present the explicit circumstances that qualify. It doesn't even state that wearing a uniform of an officer constitutes impersonating an officer. This is an interpretation of law, and yes, it's probably written down somewhere, but that doesn't mean it's trivial to Google it.

Article 134 Impersonating a commissioned, warrant, noncommissioned, or petty officer, or an agent or official , is an article of the UCMJ, which by and large civilians aren't subject to. Except for after 2007, military contractors deployed to a combat zone are now subject to the UCMJ. Otherwise though civilians, contractors or otherwise aren't subject to the UCMJ. You can find various regs for Army , Navy/Marines, although I couldn't find an actual regulation regarding salutes for the Air Force, but you aren't going to find a law that affects your average civilian returning a salute.

I worked for the Navy for almost 10 years, and before every deployment, even in CONUS, they warned us not to return salutes. They said it fell under the rubric of impersonating an officer and was taken quite seriously. For some reason, relaying that experience is cause for great consternation and outrage.

Also, the 2nd medal on the top row, Multinational Force and Observer, should be on the bottom row, not next to the Distinguished Service Cross. The Distinguished Service Medal, his 3rd, should be number 2, the 4th..., No idea, maybe a foreign award, or other service, but no way should it be that high in the cluster. The next 2, Bronze Star and Purple Heart are right, but then another mystery medal. I stopped looking after that, and then noticed his top row is different in the two pictures.

I'm pretty sure the 4th one is a Soldier's Medal, but it's hard to tell with the haze and glare. It's right around the precedence of a Bronze Star, IIRC.

vygramul:I have done nothing but admit that I don't have a source or citation, but for some reason, this only makes you guys even more energetic in making all kinds of assessments about my character.

You state that something is illegal, then quote military regs. If you had simply stated that it was "against military regulations" I doubt anyone would have taken issue with your claim. Nit-picking, I know, but this is Fark. If you post anything, expect it to be dissected and examined from every angle with rebuttals to follow. There is always someone out there with more expertise, experience or knowledge on a specific topic.

Voice of Chaos:vygramul: I have done nothing but admit that I don't have a source or citation, but for some reason, this only makes you guys even more energetic in making all kinds of assessments about my character.

You state that something is illegal, then quote military regs. If you had simply stated that it was "against military regulations" I doubt anyone would have taken issue with your claim. Nit-picking, I know, but this is Fark. If you post anything, expect it to be dissected and examined from every angle with rebuttals to follow. There is always someone out there with more expertise, experience or knowledge on a specific topic.

/don't take it personal//don't make it personal

Lol - I said multiple times that I can't take it personally if someone doesn't want to believe some guy they don't know posting something they find hard to believe on Fark. I think that only made them madder.

No, I merely relayed my experience from when I worked for the Navy. I really don't see why there's such a fuss about it. It was an interesting factoid I initially mentioned in an Obama salute thread. I barely expected people to say, "huh, that's interesting" and move on.

Why is being reasonable "chumming"? Am I supposed to be a dick about it?

No need to be a dick at all, Shipmate. I was attempting humor, after offering my opinion on why the sharks were "following the boat". Instead, I should have just offered my opinion on Mr. McDowell's situation and left it at that. Here goes:

The loon in question has a lot more to worry about than whether he saluted someone, somewhere, in violation of whatever the established laws and regulations are. He impersonated a senior military officer for quite some time. There IS a law against that. He will have his day in court, and be judged by a jury of his peers. Pretty much end of story, with the exception that someone will be looking into every person and every place he came into contact with, to ensure nothing related to national security (etc...) was compromised.

I proudly served 21 years in the world's finest navy. I don't particularly care to have people prancing around in uniforms and medals they didn't earn.