But I don't see the point in investing a ton into having 2 shutdown corners.

Are we really that concerned about opposing teams' #2 receivers? I think Browner does just fine for the most part when it comes to stopping that kind of talent. I certainly won't scoff at a Sherman-Revis tandem but I do think that it's a huge luxury that quickly becomes not worth the pricetag.

i second this post.. Browner VS. Julio Jones = shut down.. look what Jones did to SF...

For those worried acquiring Revis would jeopardize locking up our younger talent - don't be.. if we acquired him he'd be a 2 year rental.. then he'd hit the open market after 2014 and his salary would come off the books.

It's not until 2014 that we will have to start locking guys up. Basically, we can do this trade if we want.. and I'm sorry, if the asking price is reasonable, you pull the damn trigger and don't think twice. Having the two best corners in football would be a MAJOR luxury. This isn't a running league anymore..

Darrelle Revis is so good.. he and Sherman would make our pass rush look a LOT better.

Randy Starks and Henry Melton, for starters.

I'd love to have Revis too, but it's a luxury we can't afford. We don't want to take on that kind of money when we have a huge list of our young core stars coming due for huge raises in the next 2-3 years, not to mention the windfall Wilson will get in 2015.

Our DB's already play exceptional. There's not much more they can do to help the pass rush, but that's a "chicken or the egg" argument anyways.

sainthawk29 wrote:Question? Has any team ever had the 2 best lockdown corners in the NFL. Not saying it is going to happen, because frankly, I see the stategy behind it, but don't believe it will be a reality.

I have a hard time imaging 2/3rd of a football field a complete "no fly zone"

The best I can think of is Lester Hayes and Micheal Haynes of the Raiders.

#1: Idzik is in his first days at GM and just a few days ago he was a compatriot of John Schneider. It's conceivably possible that Seattle has no real interest, but is getting involved to help drive up the price as a favor to a friend. Having a friendly GM on the other side of the NFL owing you a favor is never a bad thing.

#2: It's not delusional to think Seattle would have interest. Schneider's MO is due diligence.

#3: If the NFL was without a true salary cap (like MLB), Revis would not be getting traded. But the Jets are well over the cap already and would be highly unlikely to keep Revis next season. This deal is all about saving money and squeezing value out of Revis before he walks next season. From Idzik's perspective, trading Revis makes a ton of sense.

#4: So what does Idzik want? Good yet cheap players because cheap players help cure salary cap ailments. Idzik knows our roster very well- and Seattle has no shortage of quality players on cheap contracts. Draft picks are a great way to get good, cheap players too. So I see fertile ground there.

#5: Why would Seattle do it? Because Browner is a free agent after next season and might command a large price next offseason. Remember when the Seahawks traded for Zach Miller and people asked "why? we already have John Carlson?" As it turned out, Seattle decided they'd rather pay a little more for a far better player. If Seattle did trade for Revis, it would likely spell the end of Browner here, and since Browner is on a low cost 1 year deal it's possible he could be a part of the trade.

It really depends on the deal, but if Seattle created a reasonable win-win package for Revis (maybe a 2nd rounder and a couple of good, cheap players such as Jeremy Lane and/or Doug Baldwin), I think it would be worth it. Revis on his next big contract will only cost a few million a year more than Browner would, and Browner might not even have a ton of years left playing corner before he has to move to safety. Revis only makes $6 million next season (though Seattle would probably ask for an extension before signing off on the trade) and for the right price wouldn't necessarily inhibit Seattle's ability to pursue pass rushers in free agency or the draft. I don't think it will happen, but I could see it.

Last edited by kearly on Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Darrelle Revis is so good.. he and Sherman would make our pass rush look a LOT better.

Randy Starks and Henry Melton, for starters.

I'd love to have Revis too, but it's a luxury we can't afford. We don't want to take on that kind of money when we have a huge list of our young core stars coming due for huge raises in the next 2-3 years, not to mention the windfall Wilson will get in 2015.

Our DB's already play exceptional. There's not much more they can do to help the pass rush, but that's a "chicken or the egg" argument anyways.

It's a pretty deep draft at DT. If you got Revis with a 2nd + other lower picks and maybe Lane.. why not? I believe this FO can find a gem for the DL in the draft at some point. They however will not find Darrelle Revis.

As far as affordability .. his contract is done in 2014. We could afford him and still be fine extending Wilson, Sherman, etc.

Revis and Sherman on the outside.... seriously that is terrifying to think about.Granted Revis to my knowledge has never played extensively press coverage, but if they want him I trust they believe they can do it.

Browner moves to SS.

Kam moves to Will.

I don't know if that would work, but if they are really interested I assume that would be the plan. Browner IMO would be a liablity in the slot, as it would take away his greatest strenght.

"We usually try not to move Pro Bowl players to different positions," - John Schneider

Another reason why this will never happen: Idzik just came from Seattle. How's it going to look for him if he deals the Jets' best player to his old boss for anything less than a perceived home run deal (i.e. something more than 1st & 2nd round picks). The NY media would destroy him.

DavidSeven wrote:Another reason why this will never happen: Idzik just came from Seattle. How's it going to look for him if he deals the Jets' best player to his old boss for anything less than a perceived home run deal (i.e. something more than 1st & 2nd round picks). The NY media would destroy him.

Cause Revis is pretty much guaranteed to walk next year for nothing, while they stay in severe cap trouble. Why not get young talent he already knows about plus a decently high draft pick for a guy who doesn't want to be there? The Patriots did that throughout the past decade with success.

Armchair GM opinion is I would give them Flynn, a 2nd rounder, and a guy like Lane/Browner/Baldwin for Revis and a 4th. Idzik doesn't want Tebow there and Sanchez has proven he can't be effective without a dominate running game. Flynn's contract is not demanding at all and he would realistically beat out Sanchez in preseason. Revis allows us to not need Earl always watching over Browner's side and having him and Sherm on the outsides will in itself improve our pass rush. Browner will want a bigger contract when his is finished, so why not pay a few extra million for another lock down corner? And who knows, maybe Revis buys into our defense and doesn't demand the enormous contract to stick around.

Now, none of this matters if Revis demands an enormous contract regardless of the trade, because JS won't do it. And if the Jets try to fleece us for a 1st and 2nd plus a player it isn't going to happen.

It's a pretty deep draft at DT. If you got Revis with a 2nd + other lower picks and maybe Lane.. why not? I believe this FO can find a gem for the DL in the draft at some point. They however will not find Darrelle Revis.

As far as affordability .. his contract is done in 2014. We could afford him and still be fine extending Wilson, Sherman, etc.

I think this opportunity is a lot more real than you might believe.

"Revis > Starks" ... not so fast. We need a player like Starks, we don't "need" Revis. Our secondary is the strength of the defense. I'm not sure we hang our hopes on drafting the immediate impact D line players we need. I see us going into free agency for that.

Revis contract actually voids after 2013. It will get murky, because the only way a team is going to trade for him is to agree to a new deal ahead of time - they won't spend the capital it will take to trade for him when he could be a free agent after the 2013 season. He is probbaly looking for a deal in the $100 million range. And, it might be wishful thinking that they would give him up for a 2nd and some players - they are believed to be seeking a 1st and a 2nd, but of course they may not have much room for a demand like that with their cap situation. Then there is the issue of his health....

And of course, we'd have to pay Sherman as much as Revis in a few years as well. Talk about cap hell.

I think this is fantasy more than a real opportunity, but it would be awesome to have him.

Darelle Revis is very very good. And because of that the Jets are going to want a lot in return for him (like a 1st round pick plus something else of value (another pick or player)). The current front office values their draft picks very highly, and rightfully so based on how successful their picks have been during the first three years of the current regime. It is also because they have been so successful that they will have some difficult decisions to make regarding upcoming cap room. They will have to re-sign (if they're going to) Chancellor, Tate, Baldwin, Browner, Sherman, Thomas and Wright in the next two offseasons. This list didn't include lesser pieces McQuistan, Giacomini and Robinson. Because of the size of the contract that Revis is going to demand, if they traded for him they essentially lose three or four players: the draft pick(s) and/or players involved in the trade, plus one or more guys off of the list I just gave. This front office is too smart to make a move like this.

If the Seahawks trade for Darelle Revis it would be the most shocking decision the Seahawks have made since selecting Dan McGwire in the first round of the 1991 draft.

"There is no delay of game. We did not let the team know we were scratching our balls"

Bear in mind, that even with a better front 7 and pass rush the 49ers secondary still did not perform as well as our secondary. Their team has like a bajillion 1st round draft picks! Our secondary is still being paid pennies relative to their performance, and they're all young!

Brandon Browner isn't a scrub, and on a lot of teams he would be their #1 corner. Sure he's not shutdown, but there's only like 2, or 3 at the most, in the league right now, and that's being generous.

I think it would be more productive to use those draft picks and money that would have gone to acquiring Revis to address other areas of actual weakness on our team and built our players up. I'd rather we use our resources to reward our players for working hard and becoming great players when no one else gave them an opportunity.

If you front load a new deal for Revis with most of the $$$$ in 2013 and 2014... you have the two best cornerbacks in the NFL for the price of 1.5.

After 2014, dip Revis' number and re-sign Sherman. You're still not paying both players a premium price at the same time.

One way of getting around the fact you'd have to pay Revis. And also makes the idea of having the two best corners in the league more enticing...

That doesn't change the fact we would have two CBs earning ridiculous money, anyway you want to shift it around. Nor does it change the fact we are going to give ridiculous money to Wilson in 2015. You can't have three massive contracts on the books like that at once. And this doesn't take into consideration Earl Thomas, Russell Okung, etc.

There's a reason why teams don't have arguably the two best shutdown CB's in the league on the same roster.

ok lets get one thing settled first. PC is NOT going to move Brand Browner to SS and Cam to LB. just not going to happen. with that being said....

Make this deal. Give them Matt Flynn and a 3rd pick. Maybe even a 2nd round picks. Hell give them Browner. I think Matt Flynn and BB would be more then enough to make the deal Browner doesn't make that much money and has been to the probowl before. Matt flynn's contract isn't that bad and I bet you if they offered him the starting gig he might even be willing to take less money. We could use Revis even if its just to not let him go to the 49ers which I could see him ending up. We need to get him and keep him away from the other teams

*edit* I could see Revis taking less money after he buys in to play with us and I can see the other players taking less money to stay here as well. Just like the Packers and Patriots do all the time. Guys want to play for a good organization. They will take less money if they are in a good situation which we have. Good coaching, good FO, THE BEST facilities. Guys want to come here. Jets are a mess, why do you tihnk Revis has been banging them year after year for a new contract, b/c he wants to get the most out of a bad organization. I mean who really asks for a new contrat year after year after year AFTER getting a new one year after year after year. Someone who isn't happy with their current situation. And if wasn't the money b/c he was always brining in the money. The dude wants out. He probably doesn't like Rex Ryan. Everyone loves Pete. Bring this guy in. He will do wonders for us and help bring home a SB

kthebestwayw wrote:ok lets get one thing settled first. PC is NOT going to move Brand Browner to SS and Cam to LB. just not going to happen. with that being said....

Make this deal. Give them Matt Flynn and a 3rd pick. Maybe even a 2nd round picks. Hell give them Browner. I think Matt Flynn and BB would be more then enough to make the deal Browner doesn't make that much money and has been to the probowl before. Matt flynn's contract isn't that bad and I bet you if they offered him the starting gig he might even be willing to take less money. We could use Revis even if its just to not let him go to the 49ers which I could see him ending up. We need to get him and keep him away from the other teams

*edit* I could see Revis taking less money after he buys in to play with us and I can see the other players taking less money to stay here as well. Just like the Packers and Patriots do all the time. Guys want to play for a good organization. They will take less money if they are in a good situation which we have. Good coaching, good FO, THE BEST facilities. Guys want to come here. Jets are a mess, why do you tihnk Revis has been banging them year after year for a new contract, b/c he wants to get the most out of a bad organization. I mean who really asks for a new contrat year after year after year AFTER getting a new one year after year after year. Someone who isn't happy with their current situation. And if wasn't the money b/c he was always brining in the money. The dude wants out. He probably doesn't like Rex Ryan. Everyone loves Pete. Bring this guy in. He will do wonders for us and help bring home a SB

On what authority do you speak of?just how do you know, did he say someting?

Doubt if the 49ers would be interested, they are about to have a cap explosion.

FlyingGreg wrote:That doesn't change the fact we would have two CBs earning ridiculous money, anyway you want to shift it around.

If you front load the Revis deal you do not have two corners earning ridiculous money. If you paid Revis $14m - making him by far the highest paid corner in the league - for both 2013 and 2014, the average you'd be paying for your two corners would be $7.25m each. Are you telling me you wouldn't pay that average for a Revis and Sherman combo?

Let's say Sherman signs a $10m per year deal in 2015 -- again, a massive contract. If you front load the revis deal so he only earns $7m in 2015/16 as a 30/31 year old (he earned $6m in base in 2012) then you're still only paying an average of $8.5m for the two best corners in the league.

Next year Zach Miller will take up $11m. I don't an average of $8m per year each for Sherman/Revis until 2016 is exactly pushing the boat out. You could argue Sherman's rookie deal makes it a bargain.

Just Say No To Revis! We need a pass rush. If you think our secondary is good now, imagine if we had a top 10 pass rush. Give me Melton, Starks or Bryant at DT and Osi, Avril or William Hayes at DE this off season. Oh and draft the best DLinemen available in the draft. Revis and Sherman might be able to cover forever but what about our other corners and linebackers.

FlyingGreg wrote:That doesn't change the fact we would have two CBs earning ridiculous money, anyway you want to shift it around.

If you front load the Revis deal you do not have two corners earning ridiculous money. If you paid Revis $14m - making him by far the highest paid corner in the league - for both 2013 and 2014, the average you'd be paying for your two corners would be $7.25m each. Are you telling me you wouldn't pay that average for a Revis and Sherman combo?

Let's say Sherman signs a $10m per year deal in 2015 -- again, a massive contract. If you front load the revis deal so he only earns $7m in 2015/16 as a 30/31 year old (he earned $6m in base in 2012) then you're still only paying an average of $8.5m for the two best corners in the league.

Next year Zach Miller will take up $11m. I don't an average of $8m per year each for Sherman/Revis until 2016 is exactly pushing the boat out. You could argue Sherman's rookie deal makes it a bargain.

You are missing my point. It's not just Revis and Sherman....it's Wilson, Thomas, Okung, etc. They are all on rookie deals now.

Can we afford them both? Yes - but at the expense of losing other key pieces. And again, the secondary is not the problem on this defense. If Revis puts on 130 pounds and can penetrate the A and B gaps, then I'll be more excited.

This isn't fantasy football. We have a lot of key players to re-sign in the near future and adding an Albatross financial commitment like Revis, any way you want to justify it, doesn't make sense.

It's not worth it to break up the core of what we have for a luxury want. Just my opinion.

Last edited by FlyingGreg on Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Havnt read the whole thread so dont know if this has been brought up, but having Revis and Sherman would help the pass rush in two ways. First, and most obvious, QB's would have a harder time finding open receivers forcing them to hold onto the ball a lot longer. Secondly, rather then upgrading personnel it would allow us to scheme more pressure. With Revis and Sherman shutting down their man it woudl allow for many more exotic blitz formations and play calls.

Plus, there's no reason we can't bring in Revis AND d'line help. Especially if Flynn would be part of the trade freeing up more cap space.

If i'm Seahawks management I'd be all in for this move. Not worried about salary cap implications. There are always ways around the salary cap, plus Pete and John have shown they can restock the roster with quality cheap players if we do lose a few due to money issues.

Honestly, I cant believe anybody would argue against this. It baffles me.

FlyingGreg wrote:That doesn't change the fact we would have two CBs earning ridiculous money, anyway you want to shift it around.

If you front load the Revis deal you do not have two corners earning ridiculous money. If you paid Revis $14m - making him by far the highest paid corner in the league - for both 2013 and 2014, the average you'd be paying for your two corners would be $7.25m each. Are you telling me you wouldn't pay that average for a Revis and Sherman combo?

Let's say Sherman signs a $10m per year deal in 2015 -- again, a massive contract. If you front load the revis deal so he only earns $7m in 2015/16 as a 30/31 year old (he earned $6m in base in 2012) then you're still only paying an average of $8.5m for the two best corners in the league.

Next year Zach Miller will take up $11m. I don't an average of $8m per year each for Sherman/Revis until 2016 is exactly pushing the boat out. You could argue Sherman's rookie deal makes it a bargain.

You are missing my point. It's not just Revis and Sherman....it's Wilson, Thomas, Okung, etc. They are all on rookie deals now.

Can we afford them both? Yes - but at the expense of losing other key pieces. And again, the secondary is not the problem on this defense. If Revis puts on 130 pounds and can penetrate the A and B gaps, then I'll be more excited.

This isn't fantasy football. We have a lot of key players to re-sign in the near future and adding an Albatross financial commitment like Revis, any way you want to justify it, doesn't make sense.

It's not worth it to break up the core of what we have for a luxury need. Just my opinion.

What point have I missed? You claimed we'd have two cornerbacks earning ridiculous money. Whether my proposition is likely or not is open to debate, but I formulated an idea that shows even if you pay Revis the best contract ever given to a cornerback and pay Richard Sherman a deal that matches Champ Bailey and Nnamdi's current deals, you're still paying both players on average $3-4m less than the Seahawks are due to pay Zach Miller in 2013.

That level of investment doesn't stop you re-signing those other players. Tom Brady's cap hit in 2013 and 2014 will be $22m alone. New England still have Wilfork, Welker on the franchise tag plus a cluster of others. They've been able to keep the players they want. The proposal I suggested would mean the Seahawks are paying $14m for two players in 2013 and 2014 and $17.5m in 2015/16 if Sherman signs a substantial $10m a year contract. So I don't think this trade automatically denies you the opportunity to re-sign Okung and Thomas who in fairness cannot expect major pay hikes given their deals were already pretty good as part of the old CBA. I've only suggested a plan until 2016 - and Seattle aren't even allowed to negotiate with Wilson until later in his deal which will keep that cheap for at least two more years.

I'm not saying I'm all in on this... but trading for Revis doesn't mean you have to break up anything. And the interior pass rusher that me and you both covet can still potentially be found at a dirt cheap price in the draft, as long as Carroll and Schneider continue to work their magic.

the one and only goal is to win the superbowl.rather than debating whether or not we should trade for revis it is much more effective to debate what we can get for matt flynn that will provide the greatest probability to win the superbowl.

if you have an idea better than revis speak up....otherwise save your breath.

theENGLISHseahawk wrote:What point have I missed? You claimed we'd have two cornerbacks earning ridiculous money. Whether my proposition is likely or not is open to debate, but I formulated an idea that shows even if you pay Revis the best contract ever given to a cornerback and pay Richard Sherman a deal that matches Champ Bailey and Nnamdi's current deals, you're still paying both players on average $3-4m less than the Seahawks are due to pay Zach Miller in 2013.

That level of investment doesn't stop you re-signing those other players. Tom Brady's cap hit in 2013 and 2014 will be $22m alone. New England still have Wilfork, Welker on the franchise tag plus a cluster of others. They've been able to keep the players they want. The proposal I suggested would mean the Seahawks are paying $14m for two players in 2013 and 2014 and $17.5m in 2015/16 if Sherman signs a substantial $10m a year contract. So I don't think this trade automatically denies you the opportunity to re-sign Okung and Thomas who in fairness cannot expect major pay hikes given their deals were already pretty good as part of the old CBA. I've only suggested a plan until 2016 - and Seattle aren't even allowed to negotiate with Wilson until later in his deal which will keep that cheap for at least two more years.

I'm not saying I'm all in on this... but trading for Revis doesn't mean you have to break up anything. And the interior pass rusher that me and you both covet can still potentially be found at a dirt cheap price in the draft, as long as Carroll and Schneider continue to work their magic.

There's a lot of assumption in your numbers and what you "think" Revis would accept. Hard to say. I think you are way under-selling what Revis would cost. If he wants $60 million guaranteed (as pointed out in this thread) - which would be commensurate with his elite talent - there's no way his cap hit is going to be anything less than $10 million a season. Revis, Sherman, Thomas, Okung, Chancellor, Wilson, Tate, probably Wagner, potentially even Irvin if he develops. That's a LOT of pennies to take from the bank.

It doesn't really matter what New England is doing - totally different team and construct. They don't have a stack of young up and coming stars on their roster either. And FYI, New England will most likely let Welker go to free agency because he is too expensive now.