"John Knight" <jwknight at polbox.com> wrote:
>"Bob LeChevalier" <lojbab at lojban.org> wrote in message
>news:kaltmukcbtp4rsf329c6rajbvpmhfeav39 at 4ax.com...>All descendants of Jacob were Israelites. NO other race was ever referred
>to as "Israelites". What's so difficult to understand about that?
But no one is referred to as "Israelites" after the split of the two
kingdoms in the Old Testament.
>The one descendant of Abraham who did marry jews [read: "Canaanite women"]
That is not who the Jews were. It is written in the Bible that the
Jews were themselves descendants of Abraham:
1 Mac 12
>[19] And this is the copy of the letters which Oniares sent.
>[20] Areus king of the Lacedemonians to Onias the high priest, greeting:
>[21] It is found in writing, that the Lacedemonians and Jews are brethren, and that they are of the stock of Abraham:
>[22] Now therefore, since this is come to our knowledge, ye shall do well to write unto us of your prosperity.
>[23] We do write back again to you, that your cattle and goods are our's, and our's are your's We do command therefore our ambassadors to make report unto you on this wise.
>was Esau, and he was banished to Edom and never had any social contact with
>other descendants of Abraham.
But the Jews were in Judea before the captivity, and they were in the
congregation of the Lord, celebrating the Passover for the first time
in hundreds of years.
Before the captivity, 1 Esdras 1 reports:
>[20] And such a passover was not kept in Israel since the time of the prophet Samuel.
>[21] Yea, all the kings of Israel held not such a passover as Josias, and the priests, and the Levites, and the Jews, held with all Israel that were found dwelling at Jerusalem.
>[22] In the eighteenth year of the reign of Josias was this passover kept.
>[23] And the works or Josias were upright before his Lord with an heart full of godliness.
>[24] As for the things that came to pass in his time, they were written in former times, concerning those that sinned, and did wickedly against the Lord above all people and kingdoms, and how they grieved him exceedingly, so that the words of the Lord rose up against Israel.
>It was forty generations later that Christ
>met Esau's descendants in Jerusalem, and the offspring of any Israelite who
>married a jew were STILL not considered to be Israelites.
But Christ, who you say was an Israelite, was a Jew.
>From the genealogy in Matt 1:
>11] And Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon:
>[12] And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechonias begat Salathiel; and Salathiel begat Zorobabel;
>[13] And Zorobabel begat Abiud; and Abiud begat Eliakim; and Eliakim begat Azor;
>From Ezra 2:
>[1] Now these are the children of the province that went up out of the captivity, of those which had been carried away, whom Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon had carried away unto Babylon, and came again unto Jerusalem and Judah, every one unto his city;
>[2] Which came with Zerubbabel: Jeshua, Nehemiah, Seraiah, Reelaiah, Mordecai, Bilshan, Mispar, Bigvai, Rehum, Baanah. The number of the men of the people of Israel:
>From Ezra 3:
>[1] And when the seventh month was come, and the children of Israel were in the cities, the people gathered themselves together as one man to Jerusalem.
>[2] Then stood up Jeshua the son of Jozadak, and his brethren the priests, and Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, and his brethren, and builded the altar of the God of Israel, to offer burnt offerings thereon, as it is written in the law of Moses the man of God.
>From Ezra 5:
>[1] Then the prophets, Haggai the prophet, and Zechariah the son of Iddo, prophesied unto the Jews that were in Judah and Jerusalem in the name of the God of Israel, even unto them.
>[2] Then rose up Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, and Jeshua the son of Jozadak, and began to build the house of God which is at Jerusalem: and with them were the prophets of God helping them.
Zerubbabel (Strongs H2216, G2216) was the grandson of King Jehoiachin,
and the line of kings of Judah in the old testament goes Amon, Josiah,
Johoiakim, Jehoiachin (and then his brother Zedekiah, the last of the
kings of Judea). The two lineages match up - Jehoiachin and Jeconias
of Matthew 1 (G2423) are the same king who ruled for the same time
period.
But Zerubbabel is a Jew, as reported in Ezra 5 quotes above, and
worked to rebuild the Temple.
>This is what the Holy Bible SAYS. What evidence do you have that it's
>wrong? None.
The Holy Bible agrees with ME. I don't need to prove it wrong. YOU
are the one that cannot understand the Holy Bible, and who tries to
twist its words to support the ways of your father the Prince of
Liars.
>> The Biblical genealogies NEVER give us more than 1 of the 8 great
>> grandparents. You thus have NO way of knowing whether the bloodlines
>> reported in the Bible are pure Israelite (and in fact, since the
>> bloodlines were not written down, neither did they).
>>We do know what the Israelite law was, which is that "A bastard shall not
>enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall
>he not enter into the congregation of the LORD", Deuteronomy 23:2, so we
>don't need to know the exact genealogy to be very confident that no bastard
>was ever permitted into the Israelite community.
The Jews weren't bastards. But are wrong, since the Israelites as you
have admitted violated the laws MANY times:
We know that the Israelites did not keep the Passover from the time of
Samuel until the time of king Josiah of Judah (2 Chron 35)
>[17] And the children of Israel that were present kept the passover at that time, and the feast of unleavened bread seven days.
>[18] And there was no passover like to that kept in Israel from the days of Samuel the prophet; neither did all the kings of Israel keep such a passover as Josiah kept, and the priests, and the Levites, and all Judah and Israel that were present, and the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
And we know that they had violated many of the other commandments of
God during that time:
Ezra 9:1
>[1] Now when these things were done, the princes came to me, saying, The people of Israel, and the priests, and the Levites, have not separated themselves from the people of the lands, doing according to their abominations, even of the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Jebusites, the Ammonites, the Moabites, the Egyptians, and the Amorites.
Not only had they not kept themselves separate, they had practiced
their abominations.
>> You don't know
>> that Christ was an Israelite, because of all the great-grandparents
>> that were not recorded in the umpteen generation bloodline. Since he
>> was born in Nazareth which was primarily inhabited by Galileans who
>> were NOT Israelites, it would be hard for the families to find mates
>> that were pure Israelite.
>>There were almost no jews in Galilee, because Galileans were almost
>exclusively Israelites:
Awesome stupidity there nincompoop:
Matt 4:15
>The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim, by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles;
Isaiah 9:1
>9:1
>Nevertheless, that time of darkness and despair will not go on forever. The land of Zebulun and Naphtali will soon be humbled, but there will be a time in the future when Galilee of the Gentiles, which lies along the road that runs between the Jordan and the sea, will be filled with glory.
Galilee OF THE GENTILES
Not the Israelites.
>Because Christ was an Israelite from Galilee,
No. Because Christ was from Galilee. Christ is not called an
"Israelite from Galilee". In fact, NOWHERE in the KJV is Christ
called an "Israelite".
>Yes, there were mongrels [read: jews] amongst the Israelites, and Mordecai
>is a complete written account of one of them. But NO Israelite ever had
>jewish or any other non-Israelite ancestors
Jews were Israelites, so this argument is meaningless.
>because "A bastard shall not
>enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall
>he not enter into the congregation of the LORD", Deuteronomy 23:2.
But the Jews DID enter into the congregation of the Lord and DID
celebrate Passover in the time of Josiah. The Jews WERE Israelites,
and you speak the LIES of your father the Prince of Lies every time
you deny this.
lojbab