If so, perhaps you'd be willing to share aspects of your own story as well as any reasons why your perspective has shifted so dramatically. It may actually be more illustrative to do so! I, for one, was never an adherent to any leftist milieu. I've been critical of most leftist approaches for most of my life, and yet I've never been a nationalist nor much of lover of god. I've thought, said, and done things that I would find abhorrent today. And I'm grateful for the changes within my life toward a way far more conducive to joy.

Anyway...

Some background: this consideration came up on @news a while back in terms of the possibility of a 'post-right anarchism'; my own story; another comment thread here on @101.

(I will more than likely answer my own question as well. Also, constructive suggestions on rewording or enhancing this question are welcome. I realize it's a bit cumbersome:-))

ba@; hmm. good question. i can always re-word the question if needed or another question can be written elsewhere. two factors in my line of questioning here:

my own trajectory which i tend to believe isn't completely unheard of (i'm thinking here of octave mirbeau) and the distinct feeling i get interacting with self-identified leftists, particularly more of the 'hardcore' varieties, that they really don't desire anyone on 'the right' to change precisely because their own identity is so wrapped up in the agonistic relationship with 'the right.'

human; yes, i think this important because, as i said to ba@, i've gotten the feeling many leftists have no desire to see people change course in a radically different way.

this question is tied, also, to how i sense anarchy as a living, flowing, process...which doesn't preclude an experience of niagra falls occasionally! perhaps this is what allows for and differentiates my own (idiosyncratic?) play with anarchic concepts. idk...

thanks for the response, AF. i'll give your thoughts some more time to marinate too. :)

my own experience regarding left/right thinking when encountering others who identified strongly with one or the other almost always led me to the thought that they didn't seem all that much different from one another....that left needed right and vice versa in order to keep the whole thing going....although i tended (10 to 20 years ago) to relate more friendly with people who considered themselves (not very hardcore) "left". today, most people i know don't understand, or barely even accept, or ridicule, my p.o.v., whether they identify as left or right.

"human; yes, i think this important because, as i said to ba@, i've gotten the feeling many leftists have no desire to see people change course in a radically different way."

I would agree with you on that. I think some are dependent on folk that are flat out right-winged or reactionary, in a way. I don't really enjoy being around leftists/them unless my gf makes me hangout with her friends/them lol. They always come off as condescending a-holes to me.

I dabbled in nationalism of the ethnic/racial variety when I was younger. I did and said stuff that weren't cool and don't agree with it now, but I did them and I can't change the past. I will try to explain further tomorrow. It's my bed time.

af: " they really don't desire anyone on 'the right' to change precisely because their own identity is so wrapped up in the agonistic relationship with 'the right.'"

that is largely spot on, in my experience.

i also suspect that lack of desire (at least sometimes) comes from an assumption that those on "the other side" simply cannot - or do not want to - change.

i would also point out that in my experience, those on "the right" have a very similar perspective on the whole "changing those who are wrong" thing. they'd (both left and right) like to see folks change; they are sure that if only those other folks could understand the correctness of their own perspective, they'd see the light; then, finally, they give up and fall back on a "they'll never change, they are way too invested in their wrong perspective - fuck em".

i definitely acknowledge that those on the left can seem much more like prostylizers, and they often come off as more self-righteous, imo.

"i've gotten the feeling many leftists have no desire to see people change course in a radically different way"

i would agree with that to the extent that leftists are usually politicians, and politicians are deeply invested in their role - truly radical change would most likely eliminate that role. i'm not sure how different that is on the right.

but then i guess i am diverging from the actual question. maybe a left vs right question would be better suited for what i am getting at.

1 Answer

+1 vote

To most bluntly answer the question: yes.

I had the very strange experience of being sent to religous private schools by very democrat, semi-spiritual parents. I at times sided with the right-wing points of view I heard professed in school as a rebellion against the points of view as my parents. As a kid, I always tried explore different points of view because none of them really made any sense to me. I had this little stint in high school where I fancied myself pro-life (but kept it secret lol) where I was "pro-life" cuz abortion is murder, DUH! I never was able to find a religion that actually made sense to me, but I constanly had these little existential battles with myself.

but in the end right and left might are different to varying degrees, but its important to remember they are both authoritarian, and they both believe in service and self-sacrfice to things that are far more absurd and ugly than you are

I had a similar period as a kid where I was kind of on the conservative/pragmatically pro-Reagan (hey - I was only 8 when he left office, don't hold this against me too much!) side of things, but strangely, the reasons I felt that way were the same ones that led me very quickly to abandon that, pass through liberalism, and on my trajectory towards where I am now... a suspicion of authority and government (including those presented as alternatives to capitalism, ie the USSR), a respect for individual liberty, coupled with the pragmatism that people aren't just "good" by nature.