The Yonkyo is Unbearable thread talks about techniques being too painful. We as people don't like pain, in the context of Aikido, we want to practice without pain. It is natural to want to do so. And it has been my experience with some Aikidoka that all techniques should be painless. That painless techniques are the mark of perfect or ideal execution, a sign of mastery. I am not going to argue that because I have felt less pain from experienced Aikido than a novice. That runs along the lines of the novice struggling to learn the technique. Also not all Aikido techniques are designed to be painful on contact, such as those of jujitsu techniques. And Judo throws for example, not the katas, are not painful on contact as well. With that in mind, the issue up for discussion is, does pain assist in the learning process or doesn't it. Does working technique with the idea it shouldn't be painful assist in the learning process or hindering it. I am looking at long term learning and development. Does the student develop the proper foundation, principles and structure with either philosophy? What are the end results of either over say 10 years of practice?

To define pain I am not talking about applying a force that rips the limbs of someone. I am talking about moderate pain as the median, for the sake of this discussion.

I hope with a variety of opinions and input it will provide a picture of what most Aikidoka are doing and their perspective on painless techniques and the learning of Aikido. That in turn will be a valuable resource.

I personally, feel that FWIW, and I am not an experienced teacher but as a student, I feel for new students that experiencing some pain in some techniques does help the learning process and is valuable to long term success. For instance, feedback on applying other principles used with the technique. For example, assisting in the learning proper structure, and form, positioning, tai sabaki, Irimi etc. As I said this is my opinion and looking forward to reading those of others. My first Aikido sensei said about pain, when I started and was uncomfortable about pain experienced said, "Think of it as a loving stretch."