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10 minute rule Bill

My 10 minute rule motion seeking leave to introduce a Bill which would have allowed pubs and clubs to have a separate smoking room was defeated by 141 votes to 86 votes earlier today. Clearly this is an issue which arouses great passions on both sides of the debate.

If I could just make a brief comment about the administrative arrangements for my blog. All comments have to be approved by me and everyone will have noted I allow through all reasonable comments but I do reserve the right to refuse to allow people to post anything which is illegal or offensive. This does mean that there is a delay between comments being submitted and them appearing on the website for which I apologise. Can I also thank all those who have used my blog to contribute to the debate. I regret it is not possible for me to reply individually to all the posts.

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52 thoughts on “10 minute rule Bill”

Good effort mate, I agree with this proposal and it’s a shame that it has been overlooked so carelessly, but that’s Private Members’ bills for you. As a non-smoker it doesn’t really effect me directly, but I agree that it’s certainly no coincidence that so many pubs have had to close down since the introduction of the smoking ban, which is never nice to see.
I don’t know why the line was drawn banning smoking in every public place across the country, sad to see yet another case of fighting a losing battle trying to clean up up Labour’s sloppy legislature.

Alan: Labour didn’t have a mandate for a blanket ban in their 2005 manifesto (they campaigned on something more relaxed than the compromise Mr Nuttall suggested today), so we’ll therefore take that as your agreement that the ban was illegitimate.

I WISH HE WAS MY BLOODY MP.AT LEAST HE’S GOT THE BALLS TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT OUR LIBERTY. WE ARE NOW A DIVIDED NATION .IF WE WENT TO WAR.HAVE WE GOT TO GO INTO SEPARATE BARRACKS OR TENTS .
ARE OUR BRAVE SOLDIERS TOLD TO GO SOMEWHERE ELSE TO SMOKE.
THIS NATION SURVIVED BECAUSE OF THE BRAVERY OF OUR ARMED FORCES.IF THEY SMOKED OR NOT.
IT’S GOT TO THE STATE OF (THEM AND US STATUS).WHERE WE CANNOT TRUST OUR OWN PEOPLE.
OUR COURAGEUS SOLDIERS WHO FOUGHT IN THE FIRST AND SECOND WORLD WARS.ONLY HAD ONE LAST WISH IF THEY WERE DIEING WAS TO HAVE A CIGARETTE. NOT HEROIN .COCAINE. AND SOME OF THE POOR SODS COULD ONLY HAVE MORPHINE UNTIL THEY DIED.MY ONLY DONATIONS GO TO HELP4HEROES AND THE POPPY APPEAL.
DON’T GIVE TO ASH.CANCER RESEARCH.BRITISH HEART/LUNG FOUNDATION. ALL THESE SO-CALLED CHARITIES DO IS KEEP THEMSELVES IN HIGHLY PAID JOBS AND DICTATE TO GOVERMENT WHAT WE SHOULD DO.
WE HAVE PLENTY OF DIFFERENT FORMS OF CANCERS TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT.WHY DON’T THESE SO-CALLED CANCER CHARITIES DEAL WITH THEM.INSTEAD OF PICKING ON US LEGAL PAYING SMOKERS.THE CHILE MINERS WERE NOT DENIED THEIR TOBACCO IN THEIR MINE BY THEIR GOVERMENT. GLAD TO SEE THEIR GOVERMENT ARE LOOKING AFTER THEM.

I would like to thank you for all your efforts in trying to bring about a change to the ill thought out smoking ban in our pubs and clubs,the massive amount of closures in the industry and the number made unemployed as a direct result of the ban just shows how ill thought out it was. A great deal is expected of the new coalition as far as fairness and personal freedoms are concerned. The fight for a reform of the smoking ban will go on and it will gather more support because to get rid of the discrimination and bullying of taxpaying smokers and to make the country a fairer place for All to live in is the right thing to do, once again David many thanks.

THANK YOU DAVID FOR STANDING UP FOR THOUSANDS OF US SMOKERS.PLEASE DON’T BE BEATEN.PITY AN ONLINE PETITION CANNOT BE DONE AND HANDED TO DAVID CAMERON AND NICK CLEG. AS I WON’T VOTE AGAIN UNTIL SANITY PREVAILS. WHEN ALL THE PUBS .CLUBS.BINGO HALLS HAVE GONE.WHAT WILL THE POOR NON-SMOKERS DO.
YOU SHOULD FEEL PROUD FOR STANDING UP FOR THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE.SMOKERS AND FRIENDLY NON SMOKERS.
KEEP ON THE FIGHT WITH ALL YOUR MIGHT.

i’am a none smoker and i don’t mind about relaxing the ban in pub if they have a smoking room a friend of mine told me that the houses of parliament have a smoke room for mp’s if this is true it’s hypocritical of the mp’s to turn this down

Congratulations on your principled and eloquent speech! It is a pity that rules prevented a full debate on the bill as, in my view, many research figures quoted by Kevin Barron were contentious to say the least.
I hope this marks the beginning of a wider and considered debate on this key issue which involves liberty, science and economics. Thank you again.

I quit smoking over 2 years ago but I applaud your efforts. It requires people like you to fight for our freedoms to make our own decisions. Like Edward Traill I have also heard of the smoking rooms in parliament and wonder if you could clarify whether this is an urban myth or another example of the hypocrisy of some politicians.

idiots allways get abusive when they can’t win an argument, as you have just proved.i am glad i will still be able to go for a pint without stinking like an ashtray because of your filthy habit.12% of mps is a very poor result for david nuttall and you should all concentrate on more important matters. if you people want to stink of fags and die from cancer that is your choice but don’t expect other people to put up with your filthy habit.

If you could find the time to translate that into some semblance of English I should be happy to reply. I am unfamiliar with the genre in which you write, claiming my status as “idiot” when I at least took the trouble to use the odd capital letter, notably for the first person singular personal pronoun.

The only one getting abusive here is yourself by calling people idiots! No one else is getting abusive here, there are some excellent comments. What about the damage that can be done by alcohol?

It is not only Pubs and Clubs that are losing out, what about the ashtray makers etc.

I agree with Bill, our brave men and women of the Armed Forces fighting each and every day, so that people like ourselves can have Freedom of Speech. My donations also go to Help for Heroes and the Poppy Appeal.

If we had a smoking room everyone would be happy. non-smokers could have their area and we smokers could have ours. How come is it, since the smoking ban, the non-smokers seem to follow us outside (only when it is nice weather though!)

Alan barber’s post here is typical of the abuse aimed at smokers. Nothing would make people like him content unless it involved abuse against smokers. Exclusion is not enough for the likes of him who is so selfish, he would not even give over one single indoor space to smokers at a place he would not visit anyway. He wants the whole of the inside world to himself and then has the audacity to call smokers selfish!
He is proof that this ban is not about health, it is about hate. Govt should not back this hatred. I also wonder Alan, whether or not you actually wash yourself or your clothes unless you stand next to a smoker? Using that as an excuse is rather feeble isn’t it. Smell is subjective. Not everyone hates the smell of smoke, not even non-smokers. It is only intolerant antis who use this as a weapon to support their own prejudices. Smell is another form of abuse aimed at a minority of people. Shame I can’t stand next to you Alan. I’m sure you must stink of something. The stench of self righteousness is obvious and one reason why I don’t go to pubs, cafes or restaurants anymore.
It’s also rather hypocritcal of you to be abusive to smokers and then come over all innocent. You give abuse you get it back. Perhaps if you try and learn tolerance, you may find you’ll get tolerance in return.
Thank you Mr Nuttall for your efforts. It is great to know that some people in Parlt still care about doing the right thing.

Thank you for your well argued presentation today, David. It was a valiant effort which not only showed that the issue is far from dead, but also highlighted the tendency of Labour to completely ignore the public in pursuit of their own agenda.

Thanks for your efforts David. As a non smoking Libertarian I would not even like to insist that pubs provide a non-smoking room. It should be entirely up to the landlord to make a business decision on what facilities to provide.

Providing there is adequate ventilation, as there was in most pubs before the ban, then I am quite happy to visit them. If the atmosphere is not to my liking then I am content to go elsewhere. I do not need the state to protect me from smokers as I am quite capable of protecting myself as is everyone else.

What gives these people (government, ASH etc) the idea that they have any right to dictate what I and others should breath in? I just hope that one day soon the people will come to the conclusion that enough is enough and start slinging ropes over lamp-posts in readiness.

David, many thanks for your attempt to bring common sense to the legislature today. Alas your colleagues don’t appear to have quite grasped the message that they work for us, the British citizen, not against. We will be immensely grateful if you could keep reminding them of this fact.

David,
A splendid effort against one the oppositions heavyweights who duly trotted out ASH statistics, crooked heart attack figures (intimated) and used one of only two posts from your column that derided smoking. Barron was floundering at times and even clutched at SIDS, which by its very definition cannot have anything to do with SHS! 141-86 is a rapid improvement on 3 years ago David, the war must continue.

If I did, I’m sat indoors, whilst all the locals and the landlord are sat outside with their ciggies. If people wanted to smoke indoors I’d not mind – regardless of what ASH et al claim, non-smokers can be around smokers without wanting to smoke themselves.

As you said, it should be the landlord’s choice.

If this is the best the Coalition can do against repealing some of Labour’s nanny state I fear for the rest of the length of this parliament.

Thank you, David.
A journey of a thousand miles, starts with a single step.
For me, this is bigger than just the smoking ban. But it’s a damn good example of what disturbs me about the process of government.

Thank you David for your staunch and courageous stand, particularly in these politically correct times, the antis have been on a roll now for some time, but judging by this result it appears they’ve been holed below the waterline.

I would have thought an overwhelming assault by noes, but that hasn’t happened, it would appear our message is getting through. Even my new MP (whom I rattled with a couple of well honed emails) who is in favour of the smoking ban declined to vote…I wonder why? Caroline Flint’s name is also strangely absent from the noes.

Well done Mr Nuttall, and congratulations on getting this issue back in the public sphere. Of the many things that bother me about the Smoking Ban (the trampling of private property rights, the wilfull distortion of market forces that has lead to the literal decimation of an industry, the enormous undemocratic influence of fake charities and quangos on elected representatives) the two things that bother me most are the deliberate “denormalisation” of smokers and the junk science and fake statistics that get trotted out on this issue. Personally, I find the social divisiveness that the ban has caused to be truly horrifying – not just the social exclusion foisted on many of the elderly and disabled, but the legitimisation (indeed the encouragement!)of bigotted, hateful behaviour among the more sociopathic members of our society. One does not have to search for long to find any debate on this issue which isn’t littered with the comments of thse who use language and invective that if directed against any other group in society would in all likelihood be considered hate speech (“Hope you die of tumours, stupid filthy smokers!” being one that sticks in my memory).

The second thing is the junk science – I saw Mr Barron quoting his “Little ASH Book of Junk Statistics” during his speech, citing the Pell Study that was discredited by the Times, and was in the BBC’s Top 10 Junk Stats of 2007. I see he referred to the cot death statistics and asthma statistics, both of which have been widely disproved and which even a schoolboy could spot the methodological errors in at a glance. And this issue really makes me fear for the future, as most of the “studies” he quoted at you have been disproved several times (sometimes even by the same organisations, such as when they are targetting something else and forget what they have “proved” before). But what can we do? There is no court where these things can be disproved, no Tribunal where the merits of the studies can be debated. There is only peer review, which the likes of ASH simply circumvent by employing lots of other ASH members to act on the review panel. And such is their influence and wealth that dissenting voices (which even more shamefully, are the majority!) are not heard, and certainly not reported to the public. And so the fake science rolls on. I have to say, as much as I loathe the smoking ban, it is that aspect of the whole anti-tobacco movement that I find so terrifying, and this aspect that needs to be stopped. The fact that members of a Government-funded pressure group (ASH) were on the Health Panel that advised our MPs is scandalous.

But what can we, the people, do?

So thank you again for your efforts on this issue. There really is so much more to this topic than simply “smoking in pubs.” There are issues of property rights, State interference in the life of the individual, the promotion and dissemination of junk science, the persecution of sections of the population by its Government (sound dramatic? What else is “denormalisation?” What impact has it had on those who have been denied the right to foster children solely because they smoke? What impact on those who have been refused employment with no recourse to existing Discrimiation law as that law is very specific as to whom it applies? What else is it but an attempt to sway the mood so that medical treatment can be witheld – the calls have been made many times before by various groups). And now they have their sight set on the State entering people’s homes and cars….

My God, there is so much more to this issue than simply having a cigarette, and thank you sir for reminding the millions of people in this country for whom this is a very real and important issue, that they are not being totally ignored by those who claim to represent them.

I WISH HE WAS MY BLOODY MP.AT LEAST HE’S GOT THE BALLS TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT OUR LIBERTY. WE ARE NOW A DIVIDED NATION .IF WE WENT TO WAR.HAVE WE GOT TO GO INTO SEPARATE BARRACKS OR TENTS .
ARE OUR BRAVE SOLDIERS TOLD TO GO SOMEWHERE ELSE TO SMOKE.
THIS NATION SURVIVED BECAUSE OF THE BRAVERY OF OUR ARMED FORCES.IF THEY SMOKED OR NOT.
IT’S GOT TO THE STATE OF (THEM AND US STATUS).WHERE WE CANNOT TRUST OUR OWN PEOPLE.
OUR COURAGEUS SOLDIERS WHO FOUGHT IN THE FIRST AND SECOND WORLD WARS.ONLY HAD ONE LAST WISH IF THEY WERE DIEING WAS TO HAVE A CIGARETTE. NOT HEROIN .COCAINE. AND SOME OF THE POOR SODS COULD ONLY HAVE MORPHINE UNTIL THEY DIED.MY ONLY DONATIONS GO TO HELP4HEROES AND THE POPPY APPEAL.
DON’T GIVE TO ASH.CANCER RESEARCH.BRITISH HEART/LUNG FOUNDATION. ALL THESE SO-CALLED CHARITIES DO IS KEEP THEMSELVES IN HIGHLY PAID JOBS AND DICTATE TO GOVERMENT WHAT WE SHOULD DO.
WE HAVE PLENTY OF DIFFERENT FORMS OF CANCERS TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT.WHY DON’T THESE SO-CALLED CANCER CHARITIES DEAL WITH THEM.INSTEAD OF PICKING ON US LEGAL PAYING SMOKERS.THE CHILE MINERS WERE NOT DENIED THEIR TOBACCO IN THEIR MINE BY THEIR GOVERMENT. GLAD TO SEE THEIR GOVERMENT ARE LOOKING AFTER THEM.

Thank you for trying, and I hope you will continue to campaign for actual freedom, rather than the freedom to do as we are told, which is all that is on offer nowadays.

I’m not in your constituency and will not vote for any party that supports the oppression and harassment of 20% of the population. In fact, where I live, the Conservatives have had little chance of success for quite some time. We have a Lib Dem who no smoker will now vote for so his majority has been hammered and he won’t see it. He nearly lost to the SNP last time. Next time, he’s gone. I don’t want the SNP in either, they hate me too.

If any local candidate were interested in restoring freedoms, I’d campaign for them for free. Any party.

Good luck fighting the vested interests of the Pharmers, the Righteous and the professionally offended. It’s a tough fight you’ve picked but keep it going.

Their argument is built on sand and they know it. All they have is abuse and spite.

I would like to thank you and everyone who supported you for attempting to get this damaging issue discussed again. It would appear that despite managing to eject the Nu- labour administration from power at the last election they still have a considerable voice when defending their pet project and I found it quite nauseating to listen to the many false statistics being bandied about by your opponant, however it seems intolerence and a complete disregard for fairness and freedom of choice won the day.
Shame on them

Congratulations on your noble attempt. Don’t give up. We all need to understand how we got to this point (see Godber Blueprint http://www.rampant-antismoking.com )because it can get worse.
If you would like to see how propaganda is manufactured, see the last few threads (and comments) on Dr. Michael Siegel’s blog http://www.tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.com
The antismoking fanatics are now trying to conjure “thirdhand smoke danger” for the further persecution of those that smoke.

Kevin Barron: ‘Researchers at the university of Bath have calculated that there has been a 5% drop in the number of heart attacks in England, attributable to smoke-free legislation. The figure was higher for Scotland and it was measured within 12 months of the ban coming into force..'(Hansard)

Actually, that isn’t true. They claimed a 2.4% drop. Which is contentious, to say the least:

A heartfelt thanks for standing up for the rights of smokers (and also landlords and private property owners). Shame there’s not more folk with any sense of proportion, fairness and liberty in parliament.
Is ASH funding up for review any time soon? Seems wrong for taxpayers money to be used to pay private individuals to lobby parliament on how they treat taxpayers (I know ASH are far from the only or the worst offender, but it’d be a start).

Thanks for making such a brave stand for common sense, fairness and personal liberty – brave because it otherwise seems to be absolutely taboo for our MPs to mention the smoking ban in any terms other than glowingly positive ones. Pub closures in this country (unlike in Europe, where honesty seems to be more prevalent) are routinely attributed to the recession, greedy pubcos, cheap supermarket booze and changing social habits – anything but the quite obvious elephant in the room.

Your speech was thoughtful, calm and well-expressed – there could not have been a greater contrast between it and the incoherent, insulting, random blustering of your opponent. Yes, your bill was defeated, but it was still a step forward. Those of us who support it are not going to go away.

Excellent speech and thank you for putting forward some very sound arguements. I note that the responder merely regurgitated the same spurious and discredited mantra as dictated by ASH. I wonder if those MP’s who voted against will ever stop to wonder what will happen when smokers are organized and vote as a block?

Well done, that man! A fine effort. You’ve kept it in the public sphere and strongly shown its a growing concern that will only increase. I don’t know how you could keep your patience when that pseudo Marxist ex ally of Scargill was spluttering on with his ASH provided ‘statistics’ e.g. Jill Pell’s infamous and laughable heart attack survey and I certainly don’t know how you kept your face straight when he muttered about the Scottish one. Barron even had to resort to some Turkish ‘survey’ on cot deaths for what that had to do with anything.

ASH, a charity? Ha! some charity that provides employees in the DoH, provided the Secretariat foe Barron’s much quoted ‘All Party Committee’, is funded by a combination of BHF (another charity), CRUK (yet another charity) and big pharma (for obvious reasons)

Keep up the good work. Considering that I’ve heard Lab. were being ‘heavily whipped’ 141 was a pathetic response. Obviously, quite a few wanted to keep out of the firing line.

Thank you very much for giving this a go – please don’t give up on this issue as it is a good example of many things wrong with our country; the nanny state, fraudulent use of scintific data and statistics, the tyranny of the majority, the erosion of liberty, false charity lobbying with tax payer’s money, the tyranny of the EU dictat, the irritating UK habit of gold plating every EU dictat – the list is endless

And I really don’t see why I shouldn’t have a pint and a fag in my local pub – the landlord would be happy as would the vast majority of the regulars (smokers and non smokers alike) and the non smokers would still have a non smoking bar if they preferred. It used to be the heart of the community – now it is more than half empty

Sir, a valiant effort defeated by small minded bigots who have no will of their own. Quite bizarre that the very people who claim to be intelligent enough to govern our country, are also too thick to see when they are being conned by individuals and organisations which work entirely within their own agenda and for their own profit and wealth. Good political leadership embraces ALL of it’s law abiding populace and protects their safety and livelyhoods. I feel quite ashamed that the UK’s political hopefuls now seem so desperate to possess power that almost a fifth of the population are deemed undesirable, and property owners denied the right to conduct legitimate business in order to follow the lies and mantra of fake charities and wealthy pharmaceutical companies. It smells of corruption or stupidity. Either way the truth will one day come out and the real losers will be those political puppets and fake charities. Smokers are not going away anytime soon and I hope your resolve to re-normalise them will continue. I thank you for your attempts.

Just to highlight some of the outrageous perversions being carried out by ASH and their ilk today, can I just bring your attention to this latest piece of “scientific research” from ASH US, the parent organisation for ASH – yes, the same ASH who have permanent advisors seconded to the DoH and who advised MPs on the smoking ban. They have just “discovered” that even touching a smoker can cause serious neurological damage (yes, really). Please see Professor Michael Siegel’s blog (below) for more details. By the way, Dr. Siegel is a Professor in the Department of Community Health Sciences, Boston University School of Public Health and previously spent two years working at the Office on Smoking and Health at CDC. He has 25 years of experience in the field of tobacco control but started back in the days when possible threats to health were being genuinely investigated. He now spends most of his time desperately trying to reign in the excesses of his, frankly, sociopathic colleagues. Please read the post (and the rest of his blog, if you have time) to see what ASH are now getting away with, unhindered by peer review, funded by the NHS and Government, while feeding all sorts of tripe to our MPs and Health Ministers. I am sure it will, as it did with me, make your blood boil. This is the sort of absolute nonsesne that was spewed back at you in the House the other day and is apparently why we have lost 100,000 jobs and 10% of a previously thriving industry. How can they get away with it? Anyway, here is the link. Please spread it amongst your Parliamentary colleagues so that they can see who they have been listening to for the last few years….

Thanks for your efforts with your “Public Houses and Private Members Clubs (Smoking) Bill” It is about time that an MP stood up for people.

It is an absolute disgrace that we have had our right to smoke in pubs etc. taken from us. Where are our Human Rights?? These non-smokers thrive on our freedom being taken from us! They winged about not being able to go into pubs, because of the smoke, but were are they? They have never been in to pubs prior to the ban and after the ban! I know many non-smoker who still supports us, and they are still going in to pubs, because it didnt bother them.

Tap Rooms should be brought back, so that we can have a community centre (Pub) that accommodates for both smokers and non-smokers. The Lounge for the non-smokers and the Tap Room for the smokers. Better still make it Landlords discretion…its them poor buggers that have lost money and many a pub has shut because of this! It is a load of rubbish about it being the cost of beverages. People go out to see their friends and have fun times.

Thank you so much for your efforts. It is clear you have so much support, i hope very much you don’t give up.

I am a non-smoker but i am frightened by the erosion of our liberties. 70 years ago a German National Socialist movement brainwashed, restricted and cajoled it’s peoples (including a smoking ban), and whilst i don’t want to compare Mr Blair, his cohorts and the EU to the Nazi’s, it is clear to anyone who enjoys their individual freedoms, and has the common sense to think independently that they are being chipped away.

It is also commendable that you are standing up for all of the poor landlords/lady’s who’s lively-hoods are at risk.

This law should never have been so totalitarian, there was a compromise, and there still is.

Please don’t give up. You do have support, and you know what you are doing is right.

Dear sir
it is very brave of you to counter act the ‘fever’ of anti-smoking laws ,It is not just for health it is also about human rights , doesn’t the smoker have the right to smoke freely as long as the tobacco is legal? at least provide in-door places for them to practice their rights. If smoking is that bad why not make it illegal and just stop manufacturing and importing it ?
I’ll be very interested if you have any approved study about the effect of smoke-ban on pubs and clubs
thank you