This was always going to happen. When you bolster your place in the world as a technological leader, and then revelations show that your technology is largely compromised, your place as a leader is going to shift.

I'm amazed that with all the focus for Republicans to be capitalistic, that they all didn't vote against defunding the NSA. Democrats are jumping on board with Obama because he's their President and backing the PRISM programs, but I honestly expected Republicans to give a bit more fight. Granted though, I realize I am speaking through the veil of two parties who are different in name but basically the same.

ANY question of this form (Does X make you more likely... or less likely... to Y) will always show the more/less likely. See political polling of the past decade about "does X party's position on Z make you less likely to..".

People interpret the question more as, do you disapprove of the spying? So of course people will say less likely, but that may well have no effect on how they actually do business because that isn't something you choose on entirely ethical grounds. I would like to see hard data about withdrawing customers.

The sad thing is that when millions of citizens say they want something done about this it gets ignored. But, when it hits the pocketbooks of big business, I bet Congress will suddenly, "miraculously" get motivated to do something about it.

I wonder what good cloud alternatives truly exist to the US-based clouds? I take it that Amazon, Google and Microsoft, VMware all are US-based.

Sure there are small regional "cloud" providers, but a non-US cloud provider with a global reach?

Cloud is not actually a requirement as vendors would like you to think. A carefully set up FTP server can replace "the cloud" in a ton of scenarios. Only you get to keep your data and nobody makes money off of it.

I'm amazed that with all the focus for Republicans to be capitalistic, that they all didn't vote against defunding the NSA. Democrats are jumping on board with Obama because he's their President and backing the PRISM programs, but I honestly expected Republicans to give a bit more fight. Granted though, I realize I am speaking through the veil of two parties who are different in name but basically the same.

These systems, along with defense and law enforcement spending, ultimately protect existing privilege and power. And if the Republicans can be counted on anything it's to do everything they can to protect privilege and power.

A Microsoft spokesperson would not say whether the company has received such requests from the government. But when asked whether Microsoft would turn over a master key used for Web encryption or server-to-server e-mail encryption, the spokesperson replied: "No, we don't, and we can't see a circumstance in which we would provide it."

Google also declined to disclose whether it had received requests for encryption keys. But a spokesperson said the company has "never handed over keys" to the government, and that it carefully reviews each and every request. "We're sticklers for details -- frequently pushing back when the requests appear to be fishing expeditions or don't follow the correct process," the spokesperson said.

we cannot tell you whether or not we have gotten these requests, but we can tell you we havent given them out when we were asked.

The answer of we dont and we never sorta imply they were asked and they say no. doesnt it?

This was always going to happen. When you bolster your place in the world as a technological leader, and then revelations show that your technology is largely compromised, your place as a leader is going to shift.

I'm amazed that with all the focus for Republicans to be capitalistic, that they all didn't vote against defunding the NSA. Democrats are jumping on board with Obama because he's their President and backing the PRISM programs, but I honestly expected Republicans to give a bit more fight. Granted though, I realize I am speaking through the veil of two parties who are different in name but basically the same.

You do realize the vote in the house that happened two days ago had pretty much all the democrats voting to remove the ability of the NSA to do broad based spying on us. Only 90 Republicans voted with the Democrats. So once again more Democrats than Republicans wanted to protect US citizens.

[Business] isn't something you choose on entirely ethical grounds. I would like to see hard data about withdrawing customers.

It's not just ethical grounds. There are real legal implications for doing business with an entity or entities that openly contravene the privacy laws in your country/region.

Using any US-based cloud or server storage could get a foreign company in hot water with class action suits or regulatory authorities.

I think the dilemma is broader than that. To reach people in a given country, you have to pass through that country's infrastructure. So, if you choose Cloud provider X in a pro-privacy country, but you need to reach customers in the U.S. or China ( obviously not trivial markets ), what can you do? Those countries might bar you at the door, unless you give them what they want.

We're basically dealing with the age-old problems of fear and power. There is fear of the 'other' and the desire to have power to be protected from, or better yet, to have power over, that other. This sets the stage for prying, spying, and all the other awesome things like wars, exploitation of people and resources, etc. We can't trust each other to do the right thing, from that asshole in traffic to foreign countries trying to out-fuck over the others.

A Microsoft spokesperson would not say whether the company has received such requests from the government. But when asked whether Microsoft would turn over a master key used for Web encryption or server-to-server e-mail encryption, the spokesperson replied: "No, we don't, and we can't see a circumstance in which we would provide it."

Google also declined to disclose whether it had received requests for encryption keys. But a spokesperson said the company has "never handed over keys" to the government, and that it carefully reviews each and every request. "We're sticklers for details -- frequently pushing back when the requests appear to be fishing expeditions or don't follow the correct process," the spokesperson said.

we cannot tell you whether or not we have gotten these requests, but we can tell you we havent given them out when we were asked.

The answer of we dont and we never sorta imply they were asked and they say no. doesnt it?

For some reason, no idea why, I get the impression that large corporation's bottom line being effected negatively will have more impact on getting NSA spying changed than the general populace's disapproval of said spying. Strange that.

I don't blame anyone who resides outside of the U.S. to be upset and wary of using U.S.-based cloud services because of what the NSA does. But, consider the scope the NSA's work. All the reports that I've come across have said that, in regards to obtaining cell phone data, AT&T, Verizon and Sprint are complicit. T-Mobile was never directly implicated. However, if a person who uses T-Mobile has to have their data passed across any of the big 3's pipes, their data is gobbled up anyway.

I can only imagine the same would hold true for cloud services. Yes, a person may reside outside of the U.S. and use cloud services that reside outside of the U.S. But what are the chances that their data will never touch a pipe that passes through the NSAs clutches?

That being said...as other have mentioned, if the rest of the world takes their money out of cloud services based in the U.S., presumably those companies will complain to their duly elected officials and howl for a change to how the NSA functions. Heaven knows that multi-billion dollar companies can affect change much more quickly and profoundly than millions of average citizens.

Personally, I don't think a huge amount of business will be lost in the short-term due to the program, but I have yet to see a good that has justified indiscriminate collection of all call metadata and various e-communication data.

I'm amazed that with all the focus for Republicans to be capitalistic, that they all didn't vote against defunding the NSA. Democrats are jumping on board with Obama because he's their President and backing the PRISM programs, but I honestly expected Republicans to give a bit more fight. Granted though, I realize I am speaking through the veil of two parties who are different in name but basically the same.

These systems, along with defense and law enforcement spending, ultimately protect existing privilege and power. And if the Republicans can be counted on anything it's to do everything they can to protect privilege and power.

Sorry to burst both of your bubbles, but the Republicans and Democrats have the same strategy to stay in office, become more powerful, and make lots of money (in office and after their political careers set them up for big payoffs).The two parties contain a bunch of shameful members that do not want to buck the status quo.Once you go Libertarian, you will never go back!

I wonder what good cloud alternatives truly exist to the US-based clouds? I take it that Amazon, Google and Microsoft, VMware all are US-based.

Sure there are small regional "cloud" providers, but a non-US cloud provider with a global reach?

Cloud is not actually a requirement as vendors would like you to think. A carefully set up FTP server can replace "the cloud" in a ton of scenarios. Only you get to keep your data and nobody makes money off of it.

But that misses the point. Cloud is irrelevant. So I set up an FTP server... Where can I put it so that traffic going in and out won't be snooped on? Do I pull servers out of Amazon and put them in the UK, or China, or Amsterdam? Who isn't eavesdropping, and worse, which customers of my service do I cut off because their ISPs snoop?

Yes, there's Canadian law about this. Of course there would be. It makes life pretty inconvenient, because the US law is very reaching. It isn't about US-based cloud services, unfortunately. No matter how hard a US company tries to separate themselves from the data stored overseas through structure, the US government believes they deserve a way into it. There's very few other options out there, and certainly nothing as polished as AWS.

One US company tried a 51% share of the company owned outside of the US. The software was developed largely outside the US, had nothing to do with the US, and was hosted outside the US by a non-US company. It still wasn't enough to keep the US government from trying to require access, though I don't know if they succeeded.

This was always going to happen. When you bolster your place in the world as a technological leader, and then revelations show that your technology is largely compromised, your place as a leader is going to shift.I'm amazed that with all the focus for Republicans to be capitalistic, that they all didn't vote against defunding the NSA. Democrats are jumping on board with Obama because he's their President and backing the PRISM programs, but I honestly expected Republicans to give a bit more fight. Granted though, I realize I am speaking through the veil of two parties who are different in name but basically the same.

You do realize the vote in the house that happened two days ago had pretty much all the democrats voting to remove the ability of the NSA to do broad based spying on us. Only 90 Republicans voted with the Democrats. So once again more Democrats than Republicans wanted to protect US citizens.

Please do not get on your might Democrat high horse on this topic. Obama is a Democrat and he could end this in one phone call. After all, the NSA, FBI, and DHS are Executive Branch agencies.I prefer to illustrate that Democrats and Republicans were made aware in briefings of these spying programs and continued funding. Every politician who voted to fund these programs are traitors to the Constitution in my book.

The sad thing is that when millions of citizens say they want something done about this it gets ignored. But, when it hits the pocketbooks of big business, I bet Congress will suddenly, "miraculously" get motivated to do something about it.

Yep nothing like a tragedy to strike a politician or their family to spurr legislative change. In this case it will be the collective cries of agony from stockholders losing share price as customers are being driven away from Us based cloud storage companies to make change.

The problem will arise tho, is how do we even believe or trust the NSA if/when they "claim" they are no longer gathering such data.

The first thing that needs to disappear are the secret FISA courts, the secret judgments, the secret rules and the inability of corporations to release the fact that they are being "forced" to disclose this information.

The second thing that needs to happen is for some circuit court judges to ball up and begin to question the authority and laws that allow this to happen. Just because the DOJ says it's legal, does not mean it is.