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Why try to prove the non-existence of God? Have Atheists not made their own God up? {Mod Edit - Moved to appropriate forum}

Posted on: May 14, 2007 - 7:35pm

eddylowe59

Posts: 7

Joined: 2007-05-14

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Why try to prove the non-existence of God? Have Atheists not made their own God up? {Mod Edit - Moved to appropriate forum}

If atheists believe there isn’t a God. Then why do they try to prove that there is no existence of one? What would be the point in trying to prove there isn’t a God that doesn’t exist?

Do atheists not make their own God/idol up by trying to prove there is no God in the first place?

Are they not religiously trying to prove the non existence of God and by doing so creating a God/Idol themselves that says there is no God? Could their God/Idol not be called “the god that believes there is no God”?

If atheists have themselves created their own God then how can they say there is no God?

Here is the dictionary definition of an idol:

1.

an image or other material object representing a deity to which religious worship is addressed.

2.

Bible.

a.

an image of a deity other than God.

b.

the deity itself.

3.

any person or thing regarded with blind admiration, adoration, or devotion: Madame Curie had been her childhood idol.

4.

a mere image or semblance of something, visible but without substance, as a phantom.

5.

a figment of the mind; fantasy.

6.

a false conception or notion; fallacy.

atheists which represent no belief in God and that belief is worshiped, therefore that image is worshiped, therefore a God is created.

5. are atheists not living in a fantasy world, having a figment of the mind, brainwashed into thinking in their fantasy mind there is no God. Believing what they want to believe.

6. are atheists not deceived into thinking there is no God, when truly they have had no experience of a supernatural God, bigger than their thinking or that they are able to understand.

After all, God is defined in the dictionary as the one Supreme Being, the creator and ruler of the universe. Then if he is more supreme than us how can atheists be sure that a God does not exist. What if he is more supreme than science, what if he is more supreme than mere human minds can ever conceive or imagine. What if God is making atheists think the way they think and yet they don’t know they are being controlled by a God? What if they are serving a God without even realising it? A god that controls their every move because they want to serve the God that says there is no God.

If atheists believe there isn’t a God. Then why do they try to prove that there is no existence of one? What would be the point in trying to prove there isn’t a God that doesn’t exist?

Do atheists not make their own God/idol up by trying to prove there is no God in the first place?

Are they not religiously trying to prove the non existence of God and by doing so creating a God/Idol themselves that says there is no God? Could their God/Idol not be called “the god that believes there is no God”?

If atheists have themselves created their own God then how can they say there is no God?

Here is the dictionary definition of an idol:

1.

an image or other material object representing a deity to which religious worship is addressed.

2.

Bible.

a.

an image of a deity other than God.

b.

the deity itself.

3.

any person or thing regarded with blind admiration, adoration, or devotion: Madame Curie had been her childhood idol.

4.

a mere image or semblance of something, visible but without substance, as a phantom.

5.

a figment of the mind; fantasy.

6.

a false conception or notion; fallacy.

atheists which represent no belief in God and that belief is worshiped, therefore that image is worshiped, therefore a God is created.

5. are atheists not living in a fantasy world, having a figment of the mind, brainwashed into thinking in their fantasy mind there is no God. Believing what they want to believe.

6. are atheists not deceived into thinking there is no God, when truly they have had no experience of a supernatural God, bigger than their thinking or that they are able to understand.

After all, God is defined in the dictionary as the one Supreme Being, the creator and ruler of the universe. Then if he is more supreme than us how can atheists be sure that a God does not exist. What if he is more supreme than science, what if he is more supreme than mere human minds can ever conceive or imagine. What if God is making atheists think the way they think and yet they don’t know they are being controlled by a God? What if they are serving a God without even realising it? A god that controls their every move because they want to serve the God that says there is no God.

There's absolutely no way to prove that something doesn't exist. I'm 99.9% certain that there are no giant purple grasshoppers on the dark side of Jupiter but I can't prove that there aren't. The burden of proof lies on the one who makes the claim, not on the one who is skeptical of the claim.

Why do atheists try to prove there is no God? Why do you say it is idiotic?

Why dont you try proving that I dont have an invisable snarfwidget who makes invisable kegs of beer for me under my bed.

If you said, "Thats an idiotic claim" you'd be right.

We arnt disproving anything, the fantastic fictional claims made by theists do the job without our help. All we do is compare a claim to reality and see if it matches up. If we see no evidence that it matches up we dont accept the claim.

If your boss said, "I'll give you an invisable check for 1,000,000 dollars" would you simple buy that claim?

Just like you are not obligated to believe that you'll get 72 virgins simply because someone claims it. I'd think you'd be wise to question such a claim. If you didnt and merely adapted it because you liked the idea, is that wise?

We dont buy stuff merely because it is put in front of us in the form of a claim. Just as you shouldnt respond to e-mails promising that you'll get $1,000,000 dollars if you only send 45 grand to a nigerian you never met.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."ObamaCheck out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37

Psychoanalysis. to reject (painful or disagreeable ideas, memories, feelings, or impulses) from the conscious mind.

–verb (used without object)

6.

to initiate or undergo repression.

how is it possible for someones beliefs to supress, keep down, reduce to subjection etc. Atheists preach the fact that there is no god as truth, believers in God preach that God is real as truth. How can you repress people by preaching to others what you think is truth? It is that persons choice to accept or reject it. No one can force atheism or religion on anyone.

"We arnt disproving anything, the fantastic fictional claims made by theists do the job without our help. All we do is compare a claim to reality and see if it matches up. If we see no evidence that it matches up we dont accept the claim."

Surley you are trying to disprove that there is a God. If someone claims there is a God and you reply to this claim with evidence you think you have that disproves the existance of God, then infact you are trying to prove that there is no God.

If atheists do not try to prove there is no God then why is there such thing as atheism? Atheism surley must have started by someone claiming there is no God and then try to prove it by trying to find an answer to why there isnt a God.

How can you repress people by preaching to others what you think is truth?

If I were to say that gravity is not true but rather that everything comes back down to earth because of intelligent falling, would you not say that the belief is irrational and that gravity is, in fact, true?

eddylowe59 wrote:

It is that persons choice to accept or reject it. No one can force atheism or religion on anyone.

Wrong, beliefs can be forced upon people. I, for instance, was indoctrinated from an early age to believe that Christianity was true. There have also been numerous people that have been brainwashed into believing something completely absurd.

"Wrong, beliefs can be forced upon people. I, for instance, was indoctrinated from an early age to believe that Christianity was true. There have also been numerous people that have been brainwashed into believing something completely absurd."

If you did not have the choice and you were truly brainwashed then you would still believe that christianity was true to this day. But the fact is that you were not brainwashed, you have had the choice to believe that christianity is true or not and you have chose not too. Therefore no beliefs have beeen forced on you as you have chosen not to believe them.

My other point was not so much about what is true and what isnt, my point was that you cant repress someone by preaching what you believe? You could tell me that gravity makes everything come back down to earth, i have the choice to believe it or reject it. No matter wether i see its effects right in front of me or not. If i dont want to believe in gravity i wont no matter what you tell me!

"We arnt disproving anything, the fantastic fictional claims made by theists do the job without our help. All we do is compare a claim to reality and see if it matches up. If we see no evidence that it matches up we dont accept the claim."

Surley you are trying to disprove that there is a God. If someone claims there is a God and you reply to this claim with evidence you think you have that disproves the existance of God, then infact you are trying to prove that there is no God.

If atheists do not try to prove there is no God then why is there such thing as atheism? Atheism surley must have started by someone claiming there is no God and then try to prove it by trying to find an answer to why there isnt a God.

Disprove is a stupid concept be it about any issue religious or not. The solid argument is proven by positive statements and backed up by the claimant.

Again....here is an example.

My claim, " I have a Jeep"

You, "Show me"

That is how logic works in any case on any issue, religious or not.

It doesnt work like this

Me, "I have a Jeep"

You, "Show me"

Me, "Prove that I dont have a Jeep"

You, "I cant see it, maybe you can show me the title?"

Me, "I dont have the title, it is at my friends house"

You, "Can we go there and see it?"

Me, "No"

That is a bit simplistic but should adiquitly explain the differance between good use of logic and bad use of logic in determining what is or is not fact on any given issue, religious or not.

If I cant demonstrate that I have a Jeep in some tangable way and all I do is claim that I have one you would be under no obligation to accept it merely because I claim it.

You without even knowing it use that same logic to reject the fantastic claims of others religions, otherwise you would believe everything everyone tells you.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."ObamaCheck out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37

I just wanted to jump in here about something you wrote and its implications

Quote:

Wrong, beliefs can be forced upon people. I, for instance, was indoctrinated from an early age to believe that Christianity was true. There have also been numerous people that have been brainwashed into believing something completely absurd.

I hate to point this out, really I do. But atheism is a belief structure. It believes that all is matter. I am not saying that because it is a belief structure, that it is based on blind faith, but it is based on empirical data interpreted (interpretation is a matter of belief).

So if I was raised an atheist, would that mean that atheism is oppressing me?

"Wrong, beliefs can be forced upon people. I, for instance, was indoctrinated from an early age to believe that Christianity was true. There have also been numerous people that have been brainwashed into believing something completely absurd."

If you did not have the choice and you were truly brainwashed then you would still believe that christianity was true to this day. But the fact is that you were not brainwashed, you have had the choice to believe that christianity is true or not and you have chose not too. Therefore no beliefs have beeen forced on you as you have chosen not to believe them.

That's the same as saying that because I'm now an atheist that I was never a Christian to begin with. Yes, I was brainwashed into believing Christianity was true. It was through using logical, rational thought that I was able to see the lie that I had been taught to believe all of my life.

I hate to point this out, really I do. But atheism is a belief structure. It believes that all is matter. I am not saying that because it is a belief structure, that it is based on blind faith, but it is based on empirical data interpreted (interpretation is a matter of belief).

The closest thing I can think of to what you must be confusing is a materialist view of the world. Atheism is NOT a belief structure - it is a single, simple adjective that attributes a lack of a belief in a god or gods. There is nothing about it that includes a set of basic beliefs, rituals, epistemological standpoints or anything associated with any sort of structure. Why is it so difficult for so many theists to get this? Someone without a belief in deities may or may not hold to a materialist philosophy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Materialism) but it just so happens that a large number of atheists do. But this correlation does not equal causation!

Jaden wrote:

So if I was raised an atheist, would that mean that atheism is oppressing me?

If you were raised to think rationally and critically then whoever raised you obviously didn't do a great job if you are now a theist, but that's unimportant.

Are you saying that you were forced not to hold theistic beliefs? In that case I would say you were abused! But if you were merely raised with a complete absence of instruction in theism in your life then how can you be oppressed by it? No one would claim something so ridiculous!

"This is the real world, stupid." - Charlie Brooker

"It is necessary to be bold. Some people can be reasoned into sense, and others must be shocked into it. Say a bold thing that will stagger them, and they will begin to think." - Thomas Paine

My other point was not so much about what is true and what isnt, my point was that you cant repress someone by preaching what you believe?

Oh? Perhaps you should speak to someone from the homosexual community. Or how about a woman living in Saudi Arabia, of Afghanistan? I would venture to say that religion has certainly managed to repress in these instances, especially in Muslim countries.

Some common misconceptions of atheism designed not even to make atheism look worse, only just as bad as religion.

Atheists do not believe absolutely there is no God, it is just the absense of a belief that there is one. We do not worship the holy gap where God should be. In fact atheists in theory need not believe anything other than their own existence, and perhaps the universe around them's existence. In fact they need not even believe that. Atheism is the absense of a belief in a God, not the belief that there is No God! The beliefs many of us do have is through the two beliefs I pointed out above, belief in our own existence - a reasonable belief since we have evidence of our own existence and of the belief that the universe we exist in, which again is reasonable to assume since we can sense it with our bodies. So our knowledge comes from the things we find in the world/universe, we cannot know anything of the supernatural, any such belief would be simple speculation with no evidence. Of course through science it may eventually become possible to know things beyond the physical, that is one possibility. We have no evidence to back that claim up, all we can feasibly believe in is the physical since we only exist in the physical, since the only things we can find are physical.

If atheists believe there isn’t a God. Then why do they try to prove that there is no existence of one? What would be the point in trying to prove there isn’t a God that doesn’t exist?

we try to show that most likely, a god does not exist. it's to lead people out of the irrationality and delusion of theism. we don't try and prove there isn't a god that dosn't exist. we try try and prove there isn't a god.

Do atheists not make their own God/idol up by trying to prove there is no God in the first place?

no, we don't.

Are they not religiously trying to prove the non existence of God and by doing so creating a God/Idol themselves that says there is no God? Could their God/Idol not be called “the god that believes there is no God”?

where is this god? why are we "religiously" trying to prove this? a religion worships a god. tell me who this "god" is you speak of.

If atheists have themselves created their own God then how can they say there is no God?

Here is the dictionary definition of an idol:

1.

an image or other material object representing a deity to which religious worship is addressed.

2.

Bible.

a.

an image of a deity other than God.

b.

the deity itself.

3.

any person or thing regarded with blind admiration, adoration, or devotion: Madame Curie had been her childhood idol.

4.

a mere image or semblance of something, visible but without substance, as a phantom.

5.

a figment of the mind; fantasy.

6.

a false conception or notion; fallacy.

there is no idol. you are putting words in our mouthes.

atheists which represent no belief in God and that belief is worshiped, therefore that image is worshiped, therefore a God is created

it isn't worshipped anymore than the nonexistance of santa claus is worshipped. im still wondering who this god is you're making up.

5. are atheists not living in a fantasy world, having a figment of the mind, brainwashed into thinking in their fantasy mind there is no God. Believing what they want to believe.

some christians may think satan is corrupting our minds. but no, probably not, i'd like to see your evidence backing this up.

6. are atheists not deceived into thinking there is no God, when truly they have had no experience of a supernatural God, bigger than their thinking or that they are able to understand.

i could say the same for the theist. they have had no experience with a supernatural god outside of schiziophrenic delusions or dreams that they think are visions. i think the easter bunny is too big for your thinking and understanding. all "experiences" with a supernatural deity can easily be shut down. presents appeared under my christmas tree on christmas. does this prove santa claus?

After all, God is defined in the dictionary as the one Supreme Being, the creator and ruler of the universe. Then if he is more supreme than us how can atheists be sure that a God does not exist.

what dictionary is this defined in? are you sure it dosn't say the idea of one? and if you are referring to the bible, how do you know the bible is true?

What if he is more supreme than science, what if he is more supreme than mere human minds can ever conceive or imagine. What if God is making atheists think the way they think and yet they don’t know they are being controlled by a God? What if they are serving a God without even realising it? A god that controls their every move because they want to serve the God that says there is no God.

what if the spirit of emily rose is hiding in your floorboards, watching your every move without you even realizing it.

my point is, there is a huge lack of evidence to support these claims. therefore there is no reason to believe it at all. and there is no god that says there is no god. you have made up every single part of your post and put words in our mouthes.

"Wrong, beliefs can be forced upon people. I, for instance, was indoctrinated from an early age to believe that Christianity was true. There have also been numerous people that have been brainwashed into believing something completely absurd."

If you did not have the choice and you were truly brainwashed then you would still believe that christianity was true to this day. But the fact is that you were not brainwashed, you have had the choice to believe that christianity is true or not and you have chose not too. Therefore no beliefs have beeen forced on you as you have chosen not to believe them.

Are you joking me? He WAS brainwashed in his early days. He was brainwashed and did have beliefs forced down on him UNTIL he made a choice.

The burden is on you to prove that god exists.

How about this:

Judge: God, you have been accussed of existince. What do you have to say for yourself?

God: I am innocent until proven guilty, your honour!

Judge: god, you have been accused of existence! What do you have to say for yourself?

Surley you are trying to disprove that there is a God. If someone claims there is a God and you reply to this claim with evidence you think you have that disproves the existance of God, then infact you are trying to prove that there is no God

No, I am not trying to disprove a god. I am saying that I have no reason to accept the claim that a god exists. The reasons presented to me by theists are not compelling in the least. I find that they are full of logical fallacies and some of them are just plain wacky.

eddylowe59 wrote:

If atheists do not try to prove there is no God then why is there such thing as atheism? Atheism surley must have started by someone claiming there is no God and then try to prove it by trying to find an answer to why there isnt a God.

Atheism only exists because theism does. It is a reactionary position. There are some that do not accept the claim of theism, thus atheism exists. I wouldn't mind if the word atheist was no longer needed, because that would mean that theism no longer existed. As long as theism exists, atheism will exist as the non-acceptance of the claim of a god or gods.