One report had Youk's 2-year offer around (EDIT) $16-18M. I'd be fine with Youk at (EDIT) $8-9M a year for 2 years. Injury risk but RH bat we could use. Better use of $8M than Pena would have been last winter.

Not saying the Tribe should trade Brantley, but would be interested in seeing what his value on the market would be. 4 years left and has been better offesnively than Reverse. Not as good defensively, but improved in CF this year.

Edit: My mistake, had those numbers wrong. Still think it's reasonable though

Last edited by Hermie13 on Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

One report had Youk's 2-year offer around $14-16M. I'd be fine with Youk at $7-8M a year for 2 years. Injury risk but RH bat we could use. Better use of $8M than Pena would have been last winter.

Not saying the Tribe should trade Brantley, but would be interested in seeing what his value on the market would be. 4 years left and has been better offesnively than Reverse. Not as good defensively, but improved in CF this year.

Would actually be ok with either Reynolds or Youk for that money at just 2 years.

One report had Youk's 2-year offer around $14-16M. I'd be fine with Youk at $7-8M a year for 2 years. Injury risk but RH bat we could use. Better use of $8M than Pena would have been last winter.

Not saying the Tribe should trade Brantley, but would be interested in seeing what his value on the market would be. 4 years left and has been better offesnively than Reverse. Not as good defensively, but improved in CF this year.

Would actually be ok with either Reynolds or Youk for that money at just 2 years.

One report had Youk's 2-year offer around $14-16M. I'd be fine with Youk at $7-8M a year for 2 years. Injury risk but RH bat we could use. Better use of $8M than Pena would have been last winter.

Not saying the Tribe should trade Brantley, but would be interested in seeing what his value on the market would be. 4 years left and has been better offesnively than Reverse. Not as good defensively, but improved in CF this year.

Would actually be ok with either Reynolds or Youk for that money at just 2 years.

Would you take on Ross for 8-9 mil a year for 2 years?

If Swisher isn't really in the cards for the Indians, I certainly consider him. I recall reports that he was looking for 3 yrs 25 million. I'd be comfortable on a 2 year deal on most of the FA position players linked to the Indians.

Granted, Ross's bat isn't likely going to match what Willingham did (and nobody expected from him) However he is a better defender than Willingham

criznit2009 wrote:Yeah Ross could even be our 4th OF in a sense - though not ideal he could certainly play CF for a game or 2 if Brantley needed a day off or got injured.

He would be a helluva lot better than what the Indians got from Duncan or Cunningham as far as right handed hitting OF goes.

As far as FA go I think the Indians would do quite well for themselves if they got a combo of either Youkilis/Reynolds and Swisher/Ross. Would add some length to the lineup and offer some potential (along with Aviles) to smack around some lefty pitchers.

Even though the Nashville meetings are over...and the Tribe can still make trades and free agent signings.....you'd think the owners & FO would finally realize the true value of a great minor league system: you have a lot more control over your own destiny.

You don't have to wait and wish & hope a big trade works out....or have to overbid on free agents.

I hope they "live and learn". They'll be a better organization in the future if they have learned.

I didn't really expect to see the Tribe pick up 1b - Chris McGuiness from the Rangers although it gives the Tribe another option. McGuiness is big league ready IMO. He should be adequate offensively and defensively. McGuiness could be an option in LF and as a DH too. Curious though if they sign Youkilis or Reynolds for 1b will that push McGuiness to LF? There is still the potential the Tribe lands Swisher or Ross for RF. If they do I think we will see the Tribe flip Choo for a cpl young pitchers.

I had been suggesting the Tribe try to land Nate Scheirholtz to platoon in LF, I think it's possible McGuiness may offer the same amount of offense Scheirholtz would have. I'd project McGuiness with the potential to hit .260 15hrs 25dbls at the big league level. Personally, I had hoped the Tribe might take a flier on Ryan Pressly- RHRP, 23 from the RedSox org. he was drafted one pk ahead of the Tribe (4th) by the Twins. Pressly hits 95 and has a power CB and appears ready for a shot at the big league level.

The Ben Revere trade was interesting IMO as the Twins landed two young SP. I know a few fans have pointed out the fact the Tribe have been unable to do the same, to be honest it's not even in the same league as far as prospects go. Vance Worley is a good young pitcher, and Trevor May was the Phillies second rated prospect but neither of these guys are FOR pitchers. May has good upside but likely develops into a 3. Both Bauer (5) and Skaggs (9) are both top 10 prospects in all of MLB. Neither Worley and May were top 100 prospects in MLB. Truthfully if the Tribe lands 1 of the two they've done fairly well, assuming they get another solid prospect or two from the trade.

I think something will get done in the next week or so with ACab and I wouldn't be surprised to see the Tribe net two young pitchers from the Dbax or another team like the A's or Cards. Personally I wouldn't be surprised to see the Tribe do something like ACab for Bauer and one of David Holmberg, Chase Anderson, or Andrew Chafin to get the deal done or the Tribe could decide to kick in a player like Joe Smith or Lou Marson.

Right now, it seems like the Tribe is in a waiting pattern of sorts. Waiting for Hamilton to decide where he goes, which is also affected by where Grienke ends up these moves affect where Swisher, Ross and Bourn sign. Then there's Youkilis who is considering a deal from the Yanks, but the Tribe could always try to land Reynolds instead. All of this and the Tribe might be waiting to move Choo and ACab once the dust settles. IF AZ trades Upton and acq. pitching (w/o landing a SS) the Dbax and Tribe will probably finally get something worked out.

One things for sure it will be an interesting few wks running up to Christmas / New Yrs as some players seek to sign before yrs end. Btw, some of the shrewd players are trying to sign before yrs end to get signing bonus money that will be taxed at lower rates. HardballTalk had a interesting article on this a few wks ago.

criznit2009 wrote:Yeah Ross could even be our 4th OF in a sense - though not ideal he could certainly play CF for a game or 2 if Brantley needed a day off or got injured.

He would be a helluva lot better than what the Indians got from Duncan or Cunningham as far as right handed hitting OF goes.

As far as FA go I think the Indians would do quite well for themselves if they got a combo of either Youkilis/Reynolds and Swisher/Ross. Would add some length to the lineup and offer some potential (along with Aviles) to smack around some lefty pitchers.

I definitely wouldn't mind Ross and agree 2 years seems better for him. I'm not as big a fan of his as some though. An improvement over Duncan definitely but not as much as people think IMO, depending on which Ross you get (the 2012 Boston version or the 2011 SF or 2010 FLA version?). Power wise they are pretty equal, Duncan homered 11 times in 232 ABs (once every 21.1 ABs) and Ross 22 times in 476 ABs (once every 21.6 ABs). Ross has posted OPSs+ the last 3 seasons of 95, 107, 113; Duncan 105, 125, 90. Not saying we should bring back Duncan to start, but just pointing out the bat difference isn't that huge so maybe not wise to give too much to Ross.

Ross is definitely an improvement as said (better defense, more speed on the bases), but I'd be a little hesitant on 3 years for him. He'll be the same age next year as Duncan was this season and has a history of being inconsistent. OBP is typically only in the .320 range too. If Willingham wasn't worth 3 years in the eyes of the Tribe, have a hard time seeing Ross being worth it....though never say never (never though we'd offer Victorino 4 years either).

criznit2009 wrote:Yeah Ross could even be our 4th OF in a sense - though not ideal he could certainly play CF for a game or 2 if Brantley needed a day off or got injured.

He would be a helluva lot better than what the Indians got from Duncan or Cunningham as far as right handed hitting OF goes.

As far as FA go I think the Indians would do quite well for themselves if they got a combo of either Youkilis/Reynolds and Swisher/Ross. Would add some length to the lineup and offer some potential (along with Aviles) to smack around some lefty pitchers.

+1

Love to get Swisher but I'm not sure he wouldn't eat up all of the FA budget. I think we could get more bang for the buck going a different route.

Said earlier I'd really like Jackson/Ross. Jackson is so consistent & so durable & seems to be hitting his prime. If he wanted 5 yrs I'd give it to him, if that was the only way he'd sign. He'd be a big add to the staff no matter who else we signed. I'd rather sign Jackson than any FA out there that was in our budget.

Ross would be relatively cheap for a guy that put up an .800 OPS last yr & a 1.000 OPS vs LHP's. Good all around OF & as noted above, a huge improvement over last season.

josh hamilton for 3 year at around 65 mil isnt that bad IMO. Out of the indians price range, but seriously if he doesn't regress too much that could end up being a very nice nice sign by some. And depending how tradeable he is once his contract in signed adds or wrecks value in a nother way.

Rocky55 wrote:Love to get Swisher but I'm not sure he wouldn't eat up all of the FA budget. I think we could get more bang for the buck going a different route.

Said earlier I'd really like Jackson/Ross. Jackson is so consistent & so durable & seems to be hitting his prime. If he wanted 5 yrs I'd give it to him, if that was the only way he'd sign. He'd be a big add to the staff no matter who else we signed. I'd rather sign Jackson than any FA out there that was in our budget.

Ross would be relatively cheap for a guy that put up an .800 OPS last yr & a 1.000 OPS vs LHP's. Good all around OF & as noted above, a huge improvement over last season.

I'd take Reynolds over Youk. I think Youk's heading over the hill.

I think 5 years is a bit much even for Jackson, but I'd have no problem with 4 years. Maybe even 4 years plus an option (Tribe has that unwritten rule about giving 5 guaranteed years to a pitcher anyways). Agree he'd be a great add the rotation. Not an Ace, but solid 2/3 guy that is consistent, gives you innings, and as aid is entering his prime. Still bitter we didn't go harder after him last year. I get the feeling the the Tribe isn't going to address their pitching issue in free agency. Maybe a flyer guy like a Liriano or McCarthy but nothing big (which saddens me).

A worry I have with Ross is his inconsistencies the last few years, plus the fact his OPS was about 250 pts higher at Fenway than it was on the road this season. Lots of doubles at Fenway....I'd like to know how many were aided by the park. 39 extra base hits at Fenway vs only 18 on the road in nearly the same number of plate appearances. Not saying he couldn't be good in Cleveland, as some guys just hit better at home but Cleveland isn't the same park. Righties can really pepper the Monster out in LF in Boston and boost their numbers. He killed lefties this year as mentioned but under .700 OPS against them in 2011 (though career numbers are very good against them). 3 years just worries me with him....wonder if 2 years and a vesting or mutual option (or team option if it'd fly) would work for him??

The Youk vs Reynolds thing has my head spinning. One day I like Reynolds more for his youth and power...next Youk for his history, OBP and leadership. I also kind of wonder if getting a guy like Youk couldn't help get guys here in the future and this year. Youk being a name may be able to convince some guys on the fence about Cleveland that it's ok to come here. Not saying that should be the main reason to sign any player, but this it's something that should be in the back of the FO's minds. Also a name the fans would like more (again, not the best way to run a team but could be needed). I think most casual fans will absolutely hate a Reynolds signing as they'd only focus on the K's; whereas, they'd like the Youk signing...well because it's Youk. My head is leaning Reynolds here as agree Youk could be done/about done....but my heart is saying Youk. Think he could still have 2 years left in him, especially if he moves to 1B/DH...

I wouldn't hate a Youk signing as he would provide the leadership intangibles if he was on board with the program. I didn't keep up with the Boston clubhouse thing so I'm not sure if he was part of the prob or not. If he isn't done he'd help the lineup & he gets on base.

Reynolds does have a wart as big as Fred Savage's mole in Goldmember; the number of K's is near historic. He is only a year removed from a 37 HR season & a relative baby compared to Youkilis. That's why I'd lean Reynolds.

Rocky55 wrote:Reynolds does have a wart as big as Fred Savage's mole in Goldmember; the number of K's is near historic. He is only a year removed from a 37 HR season & a relative baby compared to Youkilis. That's why I'd lean Reynolds.

Strikeout machines in the majors aren't a big problem as long as you're still productive elsewhere. The run expectancy for a strikeout vs. a groundball out vs. a flyout are pretty much even, even accounting for "situational hitting". It's troubling for minor league guys, because it may indicate an inability to hit high-level pitching, but for guys in the majors it's not a problem. There's a school of thought that guys who strike out a ton (Branyan, Reynolds, Dunn) are actually really undervalued because of it, so they end up being smart signings.

I'm not as concerned with Youk's age because his primary asset is one that ages very well - the eye. Really, I'd take either as a 1B/DH and be happy, but if forced to choose I'd say Reynolds just because he'll be cheaper, younger and with a less worrying injury history. I think one of them + Swisher might be doable, especially if Cabrera is traded. Then it would just be a matter of assembling a rotation throughout the year.

I'd prefer Reynolds...1. He's actually a good story he was born in coal mining country where the town in SE KY only gets sunshine at noon. seriously, though its a tough region with a tremendous amount of poverty (some of the poorest in the country) and its always good to see someone escape those conditions. 2. I love the RH power Reynolds offers and he has the ability to man 1b / 3b / DH. 3. I prefer Reynolds youth. 4. The mkt price for the power production is low, albeit Reynolds will have a low avg and close in on 200k's but he's got game changing power.

I'd project both guys...Youkilis .230/.240 avg.15-20 hrs 20-25 dbls

Reynolds .220/ .230 avg. 30-35 hrs 30-35 dbls. 180-190 k's

Reynolds is a strikeout machine but if this guy gets 600 AB's he also likely to get 60-70 extra base hits that's something you can't under value IMO.

I'd prefer to see the Tribe land Reynolds and Ross maybe both on 2 yrs / $17 M with team options for a third yr @ $8 M.

IMO, Mark Reynolds could be this yrs Josh Willingham. The Tribe should sign the guy I get the concerns and I get why they have interest in Youk.

Maybe I'm over thinking things but did the Tribe draft Chris McGuiness with the intention of keeping him or could he be a guy they include in a deal at a latter point? Was it a move to ship him back to the Rangers / or to maybe the Rays who as part of pkg. I'm just thinking the Tribe could have snagged him in effort to preserve him for the mega trade which could still go down. Then there's the possibility the Tribe simply, drafted McGuiness as a means to add another 1b / LF / DH option that is young controllable and has a decent bat that hits lefties fairly well --- this is likely the case.

The rumors of the trade between the Cards and Tribe for ACab kind of surprised me because off the inclusion of two infielders and only one pitching prospect whose questionable at best. That rumored deal...ACab for Matt Adams, Matt Carpenter and Seth Blair. The Tribe reportedly asked for Lance Lynn instead of Seth Blair or Matt Carpenter (im not sure) and the deal fell apart. Seems like they could have worked something out like...ACab for Lance Lynn, and Matt Adams.

At some point we will see the Tribe do something with ACab. I like Trevor Bauer and Tyler Skaggs but I'm not sure it's realistic to try to land both, maybe the Tribe should kick in Joe Smith or Lou Marson or both and try to make it a bigger trade trying to land Jason Kubel or Gerardo Parra from the Dbax too. It could be the Tribe needs to back down a bit and try to acq. Bauer and Chafin OR the Tribe could try to land Bauer and a position prospect like Davidson.

I'd love to have been in those mtg rooms with the Tribe and other teams to over hear some of the potential trade options that could have went down. Honestly, I'd like to see the Dbax and Tribe just make this a one team deal even if they have to make it a bigger deal like 6/7 player trade.

homerawayfromhome wrote:The rumors of the trade between the Cards and Tribe for ACab kind of surprised me because off the inclusion of two infielders and only one pitching prospect whose questionable at best. That rumored deal...ACab for Matt Adams, Matt Carpenter and Seth Blair. The Tribe reportedly asked for Lance Lynn instead of Seth Blair or Matt Carpenter (im not sure) and the deal fell apart.

homerawayfromhome wrote:The rumors of the trade between the Cards and Tribe for ACab kind of surprised me because off the inclusion of two infielders and only one pitching prospect whose questionable at best. That rumored deal...ACab for Matt Adams, Matt Carpenter and Seth Blair. The Tribe reportedly asked for Lance Lynn instead of Seth Blair or Matt Carpenter (im not sure) and the deal fell apart.

"Not sure what situation Nick Swisher will want, but it does appear as if Cleveland could be in best position to sign him."

I mentioned something similar the other day. The more you look at what teams need a cOFer and money....he could be running out of options (though wouldn't rule out the Phillies yet).

And as crazy as it sounds, the Tribe could on paper sign both Youk and Swisher and still be around their 2012 payroll. They'd have to move Cabrera to do it but that doesn't seem like something the Tribe is opposed to obviously. Moving Cabrera for young pitching and signing Youk and Swisher would in my estimates put the Tribe payroll around $67M (depending what each guy signed for). That's including both Choo and Perez too who could still be moved as well...

Yeah I'm probably still dreaming on both Youk and Swisher, but I don't thin it's as crazy a thought as it was a month ago....

Where is the pitching?.. they said there was going to be emphasis on the pitching?. It's like a Cleveland Browns draft.. Six weeks before the draft and it's all about building the offensive and defensive lines.. by the time draft day arrives, it's the next QB taken HIGH up in the draft that never works. or a wide receiver or a running back. The Browns don't stick to the plan.. they go off the board and screw it up.. the Indians can't afford to do that.. not now.. not again (e.g lucas giolito)..

It's about the Pitching... Good starting pitching.. Focus on the starting pitching..

If there is a good deal to be made.. and it doesn't include pitching.. good starting pitching.. forget it.. move on the next deal or the next opportunity. The Indians have no other means to compete without it..

Where is the pitching?.. they said there was going to be emphasis on the pitching?. It's like a Cleveland Browns draft.. Six weeks before the draft and it's all about building the offensive and defensive lines.. by the time draft day arrives, it's the next QB taken HIGH up in the draft that never works. or a wide receiver or a running back. The Browns don't stick to the plan.. they go off the board and screw it up.. the Indians can't afford to do that.. not now.. not again (e.g lucas giolito)..

It's about the Pitching... Good starting pitching.. Focus on the starting pitching..

If there is a good deal to be made.. and it doesn't include pitching.. good starting pitching.. forget it.. move on the next deal or the next opportunity. The Indians have no other means to compete without it..

This is why I don't understand why there's no mention of any interest in Jackson. With the money we evidently have to spend Jackson should be priority #1. Even getting Skaggs & Bauer wouldn't improve the rotation as much immediately. There's no guarantee even one of those guys ends up as good as Jackson.

Where is the pitching?.. they said there was going to be emphasis on the pitching?. It's like a Cleveland Browns draft.. Six weeks before the draft and it's all about building the offensive and defensive lines.. by the time draft day arrives, it's the next QB taken HIGH up in the draft that never works. or a wide receiver or a running back. The Browns don't stick to the plan.. they go off the board and screw it up.. the Indians can't afford to do that.. not now.. not again (e.g lucas giolito)..

It's about the Pitching... Good starting pitching.. Focus on the starting pitching..

If there is a good deal to be made.. and it doesn't include pitching.. good starting pitching.. forget it.. move on the next deal or the next opportunity. The Indians have no other means to compete without it..

I'm guessing the Tribe just feels they won't be able to afford any of the top pitching on the open market. Obviously Greinke is light years out of our pay range. But even guys like Lohse, Sanchez and Jackson probably are too, especially if Greinke goes to Texas leaving the Dodgers to get in on those guys (if not 2 of the 3). All the talks with dealing Cabrera have been centered on pitching....sounds like their plan for this winter is buy bats and trade for pitching. We'll see how successful they are in this. Pitching IMO should be their #1 goal, and maybe it still is. I am like you still worried about the rotation. Don't think you can pass on a great deal though if it involves a bat. Agree should focus on pitching in deals, but if for example there was a 3 or 4-team deal that involved Wil Myers coming to Cleveland or a bat like that, I' don't think it should be ignored simply because he's not a pitcher...

Not sure I get your Browns reference as the Browns have used 3 top 40 picks on the OL and DL the last 2 seasons (out of their 5 they had in that span). And while "talk" may have been about the Browns doing smoething different at #4 (or #3), the plan seemed to always be Richardson. You can wish the Indians liked Giolito, but fact is he was hurt and cost overslot. Really don't think he was ever a real consideration for the Tribe, or most teams for that matter.

Obviously, something is going on. I mean why would the Dbax want Shields in a trade or sign Brandon McCarthy? I think it's to add the pitching depth to be able to move a cpl young arms like Bauer and Skaggs. I won't be surprised if a ACab deal gets done this week end.

If the Dbax wanted any SS they could have resigned Steven Drew or Nakajima (?)...I think that makes it pretty clear the Dbax want ACab particularly after all the time they spent working for a deal to land ACab. Maybe the Tribe gets another one of their more established SP like Cahill or Miley - although I doubt it. I'd still look for the Tribe to land Bauer and Skaggs with maybe the Tribe sending the Dbax something else back in the deal too (Marson, Sipp, Smith, McGuiness).

homerawayfromhome wrote:If the Dbax wanted any SS they could have resigned Steven Drew or Nakajima (?)...I think that makes it pretty clear the Dbax want ACab particularly after all the time they spent working for a deal to land ACab. Maybe the Tribe gets another one of their more established SP like Cahill or Miley - although I doubt it. I'd still look for the Tribe to land Bauer and Skaggs with maybe the Tribe sending the Dbax something else back in the deal too (Marson, Sipp, Smith, McGuiness).

I still can't see getting both of those guys. I am glad were trying to go big for ACab, but with the pitching market the way it is, I would be very upset if we turned down an offer for one of the two along with another nice piece, and then the Dbacks send along a decent package to the Dodgers for Dee Gordon. Maybe Towers made his comment about wanting a SS with more than 2 years to rattle the Indians, specifically in reference to the now available Gordon.

The Indians are incredibly fortunate for having an asset like ACab in an offseason where his value is absolutely as high as it will ever be, along with having a potential suitor with 3 young pitchers who rank among the top 15 prospects in all baseball. I just want to see something get done, with or without both of those guys being involved.

According to Wiki, Dee Gordon's middle name is 'Strange', and he is only listed at 150 pounds, making him the lightest player in all of baseball. Who knows if his middle name is actually 'Strange', but it would be awesome if it was.

Completely agree about the pitching. I think they are focusing on landing hitters through FA bc pitching seems vastly over priced and injuries can derail a career, pitchers are probably more at risk to be injured too. Hitters / position players aren't as likely to be injured IMO or miss as much time if / when injured. Essentially the Tribe would acq. young pitchers in trades 1. Bc of controllability 2. Bc it minimizes the cost / risk involved by keeping the pitching staff on the lower end of the salary spectrum. All speculation on my behalf. Simply put tying up the larger salaries seems safer if its invested in position players.

Personally, I'm a bit disappointed the a tribe hasn't landed a pitcher or two yet. I thought they may be in on Blanton and McCarthy but didn't really see the Tribe linked to either. I have heard the Tribe has interest in Brandon Webb, Rich Harden, Scott Kazmir and Mike Pelfery --- all reclaimation projects to some extent.

I'm not sure the Dbax and Dodgers would trade within the same division. Just saying some teams are really adverse to it. I think Gordon is a legit option for the Tribe bc he's young and controllable. Gordon is a 4 tool talent with the lacking talent being power. He's got game changing speed and would be interesting at the top of the lineup. We are talking legit 60-70 sb speed, his question may be getting on base to steal those bases but consider in 82 games he stole 32 bases last season.

Also, I've heard the Tigers are calling around trying to find a reliever who could close. Hmmm, I wonder if the Tribe would consider flipping CPerez to the Tigers. The Tribe has hooked up in deals n the past.

The Rays are reportedly shopping for a C. I'm not sure what kind of interest they have in Marson but he could be an option. The Rays could still be interested in Choo or he could still be flipped to TB as part of the mega deal that's said to be ongoing.

The Braves are still reportedly looking for a LF and Choo could fill the bill. FA is getting a bit thin with Ross, Hamilton, Bourn and Swisher being the big names remaining.

homerawayfromhome wrote:If the Dbax wanted any SS they could have resigned Steven Drew or Nakajima (?)...I think that makes it pretty clear the Dbax want ACab particularly after all the time they spent working for a deal to land ACab. Maybe the Tribe gets another one of their more established SP like Cahill or Miley - although I doubt it. I'd still look for the Tribe to land Bauer and Skaggs with maybe the Tribe sending the Dbax something else back in the deal too (Marson, Sipp, Smith, McGuiness).

I still can't see getting both of those guys. I am glad were trying to go big for ACab, but with the pitching market the way it is, I would be very upset if we turned down an offer for one of the two along with another nice piece, and then the Dbacks send along a decent package to the Dodgers for Dee Gordon. Maybe Towers made his comment about wanting a SS with more than 2 years to rattle the Indians, specifically in reference to the now available Gordon.

The Indians are incredibly fortunate for having an asset like ACab in an offseason where his value is absolutely as high as it will ever be, along with having a potential suitor with 3 young pitchers who rank among the top 15 prospects in all baseball. I just want to see something get done, with or without both of those guys being involved.

Agree, can't see us getting both Bauer and Skaggs even if we thru something in. Even with the McCarthy signing have a hard time seeing the D'backs moving both their top/near MLB ready pitchers. Probably will want one around as insurance should McCarthy's shoulder act up again. Maybe you could get one of Bauer/Skaggs and Bradley though (still 2 top 20 specs).

Sounds like Dee Gordon isn't really available, though who knows with the Dodgers.

I'm not sure the Dbax and Dodgers would trade within the same division. Just saying some teams are really adverse to it. I think Gordon is a legit option for the Tribe bc he's young and controllable. Gordon is a 4 tool talent with the lacking talent being power. He's got game changing speed and would be interesting at the top of the lineup. We are talking legit 60-70 sb speed, his question may be getting on base to steal those bases but consider in 82 games he stole 32 bases last season.

Also, I've heard the Tigers are calling around trying to find a reliever who could close. Hmmm, I wonder if the Tribe would consider flipping CPerez to the Tigers. The Tribe has hooked up in deals n the past.

The Rays are reportedly shopping for a C. I'm not sure what kind of interest they have in Marson but he could be an option. The Rays could still be interested in Choo or he could still be flipped to TB as part of the mega deal that's said to be ongoing.

The Braves are still reportedly looking for a LF and Choo could fill the bill. FA is getting a bit thin with Ross, Hamilton, Bourn and Swisher being the big names remaining.

Hopefully the dodgers wouldn't trade within the division. Your analysis of Gordon explains why the dbacks have probably shown interest though. ACab has basically shown us what he is, and he certainly has a high value, but Gordon's upside may be even higher if he can develop in the majors, and he is controlled for much longer (He's still an incredible risk though). I would not be surprised if the dodgers asked for quite a bit if the dbacks contacted them about it.

It is a shame the Tigers are in our division. They would be a perfect candidate for CP. I've been following the news and rumors pretty closely, and Scott Boras is just asking for a left hook to the jaw. Some of his comments are absolutely ridiculous. I'm sure the Tigers are serious when they say they have eliminated Soriano as an option because of Boras. I would have no problem dealing to the Tigers if they were willing to give us a nice package, but the fact were talking CP here makes it so difficult. The national perception is that we want him out because of his comments towards the FO. Whether that is why we trade him or not, seeing him pitching against us in tight games will be a competitive nightmare and a publicity nightmare. I wish it was different because Detroit just does not seem to have many options, but I can't see anything getting done.

Agreed I think it's extremely unlikely the Tribe lands both Bauer and Skaggs from the Dbax without having to make a significant addition to the trade, unless its a huge trade that we've been hearing about.

The Dbax do have some other notable prospects...Archie Bradley - RHSP who's probably a few yrs away but IMO is the highest upside arm in their system.Matt Davidson - 1b / 3b the power RH hitting corner INF would be a nice add to the system.David Holmberg - LHSP another talented arm probably a mid to back of the rotation guy.AJ Pollock - OF the RH hitting Pollock could be a 4th OF for the Tribe.Andrew Chafin - LHSP Chafin is a power lefty and will probably be a quick mover going forward.Chase Anderson - RHSP another talented arm Anderson is probably a 5th starter.Kevin Munson - RHRP Munson is a power righty probably a 6/7th inning guy.

As I said I think Bradley has the most upside of all the arms in the Snakes system, Bradley has true ACE potential There could be something to the trade we hadn't heard or thought of...I heard but can't remember where that Kevin Towers said he wants a minor league SS too ---Although I may have misunderstood the comment. Could the Tribe send the Dbax ACab and Lindor for Bauer and Skaggs??? OR... Bauer and Bradley???

BrianM wrote:It is a shame the Tigers are in our division. They would be a perfect candidate for CP. I've been following the news and rumors pretty closely, and Scott Boras is just asking for a left hook to the jaw. Some of his comments are absolutely ridiculous. I'm sure the Tigers are serious when they say they have eliminated Soriano as an option because of Boras. I would have no problem dealing to the Tigers if they were willing to give us a nice package, but the fact were talking CP here makes it so difficult. The national perception is that we want him out because of his comments towards the FO. Whether that is why we trade him or not, seeing him pitching against us in tight games will be a competitive nightmare and a publicity nightmare. I wish it was different because Detroit just does not seem to have many options, but I can't see anything getting done.

I personally would not have that big an issue with Perez pitching for the Tigers against us. I would obviously want a nice return, but he really isn't "that" great a closer. Saves games and yes, that's his job, but secondary numbers are only just ok. I know most of the talk of moving him is about how he mouthed off, but for me the bigger thing is he's likely to get $7M this year and possibly could get $9.5-$10M in 2014. That's basically Youk's offer right there. Not saying give Perez away but having that extra money to spend on the offense or the rotation would be huge IMO.

The Giants are said to maintain interest in Chris Perez but right now I don't see them getting together on a deal. But here's a few names to think about.Gary Brown - CF Brown a RH hitting CF is the Giants 1 prospect and a top 100 prospect. He'd probably be a Brantley type CF I'm not overly impressed by Brown but Che could be a serviceable CF.Kyle Crick - RHSP Crick is a big time arm he hits mid 90 with ease and I think Crick develops into a solid 2 starter.Clayton Blackburn - RHSP Blackburn is another talented RHSP, I think he develops into a good 3, he's close to Crick but Crick has more upside IMO.Andrew Susac - C Susac is a RH hitting C who could develop into a everyday C with some pop and a solid throwing arm.

Sorry, had to post about someone different. Sick to death of hearing/posting about the DBacks pitchers. If we can go big money for 2 yrs of Youk there's no reason we couldn't go 3 yrs for Lohse. Lohse might be cheaper than Jackson, although Boras would steer him away from the Tribe.

I wish we'd hear about some other team who wanted Asdrubal, then we could talk abot their specs.

Rocky55 wrote:Like to see what it would take to sign Kyle Lohse for a couple or three yrs. He's flying under the radar for a guy who had the kind of success he had the last two yrs.

I feel like all the top starters other than Greinke are flying on the radar. We've heard a little about Sanchez but not much. Thing that hurts Lohse for me is Boras as his agent. Coming off a career year....at 34 he'll want a big payday and wonder if he'll be shooting for what Derek Lowe got from the Braves? I'd definitely take a chance on him for 2 or 3 years but as you said, has had such great success the last 2 years, think he'll shoot for 4 if not 5, though can't see anyone giving him 5....ok, maybe the Dodgers if they lose out on Greinke.

Speaking of Greinke...he needs to frakin sign already. Feel like he's holding up everything this offseason. Rangers don't want to commit to Hamilton yet but don't want to rule him out (could be an issue with an Upton deal). Sanchez, Jackson, and Lohse are sort of in a holding pattern seeing what Greinke will get and what teams will need a SP after that. Mariners are hot for Hamilton but could go Bourn.

BrianM wrote:It is a shame the Tigers are in our division. They would be a perfect candidate for CP. I've been following the news and rumors pretty closely, and Scott Boras is just asking for a left hook to the jaw. Some of his comments are absolutely ridiculous. I'm sure the Tigers are serious when they say they have eliminated Soriano as an option because of Boras. I would have no problem dealing to the Tigers if they were willing to give us a nice package, but the fact were talking CP here makes it so difficult. The national perception is that we want him out because of his comments towards the FO. Whether that is why we trade him or not, seeing him pitching against us in tight games will be a competitive nightmare and a publicity nightmare. I wish it was different because Detroit just does not seem to have many options, but I can't see anything getting done.

I personally would not have that big an issue with Perez pitching for the Tigers against us. I would obviously want a nice return, but he really isn't "that" great a closer. Saves games and yes, that's his job, but secondary numbers are only just ok. I know most of the talk of moving him is about how he mouthed off, but for me the bigger thing is he's likely to get $7M this year and possibly could get $9.5-$10M in 2014. That's basically Youk's offer right there. Not saying give Perez away but having that extra money to spend on the offense or the rotation would be huge IMO.

Good point and I agree. I am hoping we move CP because we have Pestano, but I'm willing to look past the advanced stats when it comes to closers. CP has one job, and he does it. I'm only old enough to really comment about the 1999 season and onward, and I have seen some trash bullpens in those 13 years. Bob Wickman scared the crap out of me every time he took the mound. Even though he allowed 2 baserunners (or at least seemed like he did) and looked like he could have a heart attack at any moment, he still got the job done. We had some tough years after Wicky moved on. I will never under appreciate a closer who finishes off a game, no matter how ugly it may look.

I got to agree with Rocky, kind of tired of the Snakes driving the mkt for the Tribe.

If the Tribe misses on Nick Swisher is Cody Ross or Michael Bourn next? It seems like the Tribe has focused on spending to land at least one stud bat / offensive player. Ross isn't that but a decent complimentary RH bat for the lineup. Bourn is a speedy CF if the mkt seems to be dry on him maybe the Tribe could pitch him a 1 yr / $12 M deal.

Why haven't we seen the Tribe in on some pitching other than prospects and projects? It seems like they want to land prospects and projects (cheap & quantity). Just kind of surprised they have not tried to land a SP like McCarthy or Blanton or at least I haven't caught wind of it.

Three arms I think the Tribe could consider...Edwin Jackson - he'd help solidify the rotation. Kyle Lohse - Lohse is a stud arm but comes with some health concerns...Shaun Marcum - Marcum had some elbow issues last yr and had TJ in 08 could try a 1 yr deal.

Two bats I'd like to see the Tribe land...Mark Reynolds - I love the RH power, not the Ks but potential 60 / 70 extra base hits would be a tremendous add to the lineup. Cody Ross - Ross could fill in LF or RF if Choo is traded he'd add another RH bat with 25 hr potential.

Curious why the mkt seems quiet on guys like CPerez and Choo, I thought there would be more noise on them by now. I'd guess they could have been part of the mega deal or simply their mkt is being affected by others / non-moves or lack of movement by some of the big names like Hamilton and Grienke. Personally, I think the STOVE is still hot and some moves are brewing, we shall see as a number of teams / players look to get things done by Christmas.

Just curious why the Tribe hasn't been linked to guys like Bret Myers and Joe Saunders yet. Could be, but I haven't really heard any noise with these guys. Of course, we fans usually don't have a clue how much actually goes on.

It's still possible the Indians and the M's get together for what both teams need. It appears the Rangers are going to do what ever they must to land Greinke as a first priority. In the meantime, Josh Hamilton has given the Rangers right of first refusal prior to signing anywhere, so, he's essentially in a holding pattern. The "desire" to acquire Justin Upton, imho, may or may not happen, however, the two STUDs (greinke & hamilton) will come first. The Dbax are playing a very good game in this negotiation.

Seattle is hurting as they do not have enough offense and desperately need impact hitting & a SS.. this is still the best fit in the business for what the Indians have to offer: Asdrubal and Choo. If the M's can offer Hamilton $ 25 MM for three or four years, they can surely extend Choo to a BJ Upton level with the first year being about half.. or getting both Choo and Asdrubal for the price of BJ or Justin.. It just makes sense. The 2014 season could be the first year of a 5 year deal for Shin-soo Choo in a Mariner uni at 60% of the cost of Josh Hamilton and his baggage. OR the M's could possibly look at the cost certainty of Carlos Santana. This would open up a completely different approach by the Indians, that being, complete/100% rebuild. If it were Asdrubal and Carlos, the cost to acquire the pair would change and include at least four and possibly as many as six guys like Taijuan Walker, Mike Zunino, Nick Franklin, James Paxton Brandon Maurer Carter Capps, Stefen Romero Francisco Martinez and Leon Landry. The return would be similar to the DBax, save for the quality 'hearts & heads' of the players who's arms are returning. IMHO, a return of Paxton, Mauer, Zunino, Franklin & Martinez would/could set the Indians into the stratosphere inside of two years, if they have the nerve to go that way. BTW, an additional throw in, Franklin Gutierrez could also be part of the larger trade with the M's, but that's just a personal favorite.

So, the Indians can go with an Asdrubal for a smaller return like Paxton/Maurer, Capps/Pryor, & Romero/Martinez or Gutierrez.. or expand the deal to include either Choo or Santana.. all three combinations fit and work well with who the Mariners have as prospects & what the Indians have to deal for said prospects.

The Dbax deal for Bauer remains as a possibility. Bauer is a freakazoid of an athlete with more quirks and baggage than any 22/24 year old should have at this stage of his career. He can pitch.. there is no doubt about that.. He has some modern day attributes of guys like Mark Fydrich/Oil Can Boyd.. something to consider if a deal is done with the DBax as they also have all the pieces to put a deal together with the Indians.

Last edited by GeronimoSon on Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

see, the problem with the indians is that they should have made trades when guys like perez and choo were in high demand.

They did nothing at the trade deadline again showing their incompetence. There were several teams after choo and he had 1.5 years left with a team.

The indians should trade cabrera now, because his value will never be higher.

Last year, the indians should have been buyers or sellers, but what they did was the worst because it did nothing to help them compete in the near future.

Anybody who thinks we are going to compete this year for the division is kidding themselves. Sure they may hang around for a while, but they will fade like they did last year and the year before that. last year, they actually fell apart sooner than in 2011.

The problem with the indians is that they are trying to window dress a team that has so many holes. Our starting rotation is atrocious and you can't when masterson and ubaldo have been so bad as of late. ubaldo- going on 2.5 years of bad pitching.

Somehow, antonetti and shapiro are trying to convince a fan base that all we needed was an experienced manager that can motivate players and we will do much better.

Look at the reds, they did not start winning until they got a competent GM . It is not a coincidence that cincinnati has been infinitely better since walt jocketty took over.

indians1 wrote:see, the problem with the indians is that they should have made trades when guys like perez and choo were in high demand.

They did nothing at the trade deadline again showing their incompetence. There were several teams after choo and he had 1.5 years left with a team.

The indians should trade cabrera now, because his value will never be higher.

Last year, the indians should have been buyers or sellers, but what they did was the worst because it did nothing to help them compete in the near future.

Anybody who thinks we are going to compete this year for the division is kidding themselves. Sure they may hang around for a while, but they will fade like they did last year and the year before that. last year, they actually fell apart sooner than in 2011.

The problem with the indians is that they are trying to window dress a team that has so many holes. Our starting rotation is atrocious and you can't when masterson and ubaldo have been so bad as of late. ubaldo- going on 2.5 years of bad pitching.

Somehow, antonetti and shapiro are trying to convince a fan base that all we needed was an experienced manager that can motivate players and we will do much better.

Look at the reds, they did not start winning until they got a competent GM . It is not a coincidence that cincinnati has been infinitely better since walt jocketty took over.

Three of the five years Walt Jockety has been GM of the Reds, they've finished under .500.. this isn't open for debate and it doesn't prove the ability or inability of Chris Antonetti or any other GM. It's an associative comparison without foundation. With your agenda to "show" how a disconnected data set can be used as a comparison, you've missed the mark, badly. In short, what you're offering is BS with a red cap... Try to find actual facts that support your argument that what Jockety does somehow is a direct reflection on what Antonetti does..

homerawayfromhome wrote:Just curious why the Tribe hasn't been linked to guys like Bret Myers and Joe Saunders yet. Could be, but I haven't really heard any noise with these guys. Of course, we fans usually don't have a clue how much actually goes on.

A note on another site, a trade rumors deal that is posted by the fans that's actually pretty fair (if it's not, the level of criticism can be quite scathing, so IDIOT trades are severely hammered) says the Indians are likely to sign Kevin Youkilis (2 years $ 8 and $ 8.5 MM with $ 1MM buyout) and Shawn Marcum to contracts. The actual dollar value for the Marcum deal wasn't posted which is a pretty good indication that it's mere speculation of the author...

I really like Trevor Bauer -- I was vocal about this last year on the draft board -- and I think Cabrera straight up for him would be adequate return, although I do think the Indians should ask for more. I'd love to see them try to work Chafin or someone in there, but I understand if that can't be done.

Asdrubal is not an elite player; he's an above average MLB SS on a good contract, but he's a bad body guy that's out of shape. Not exactly a premium type athlete here, but still, a very solid player. I hope the Indians aren't pissing other teams off by demanding too much for him.

Just my opinion, but I think Antonetti may be a little gun shy on Trevor Bauer. I have loved Bauer for a while now, but he's got a funky delivery and can throw a lot of pitches. I think the Ubaldo Jimenez thing may make the Indians weary of Bauer; Jimenez has super funky mechanics and lost it fast -- it's possible the same happens to Bauer, but Bauer is still young and athletic so it's unlikely in the short to intermediate term. Frankly, I prefer Bauer to Skaggs (a more prototypical, safer SP prospect) b/c I don't see where else the Indians are going to acquire an IMPACT starting pitching prospect.

If things come together for the Indians, their rotation could be formidable in the second half next year with young, powerful arms. Carlos Carrasco is a legitimate talent, Trevor Bauer, Zach McAllister (I like him) and perhaps Mike Pelfrey. The guys they have brought out as SPs the last two years have been almost embarrassing for the organization. I hope we can get beyond that.

OhioBaseball wrote:Asdrubal is not an elite player; he's an above average MLB SS on a good contract, but he's a bad body guy that's out of shape. Not exactly a premium type athlete here, but still, a very solid player. I hope the Indians aren't pissing other teams off by demanding too much for him.

Good post. Completely agree on all of it, especially the portion above me.