Different classifications of radiant barrier materials - Home Energy Pros2015-08-02T22:39:41Zhttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/forum/topics/different-classifications-of?id=6069565%3ATopic%3A12916&feed=yes&xn_auth=noI never claimed to be an ener…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2012-09-03:6069565:Comment:928902012-09-03T23:20:14.382ZRobert Riversonghttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/RobertRiversong
<p>I never claimed to be an energy rater. I've been designing and building cold-climate super-insulated homes for 30 years and have been teaching sustainable design and hygro-thermal engineering for the past half dozen.</p>
<p>If by "themal shock" you mean the differential expansion and consequent internal stresses felt by a material undergoing rapid temperature change, then that's an issue only for fully-adhered roofing materials, not for most roofings.</p>
<p>As for how much heat enters the…</p>
<p>I never claimed to be an energy rater. I've been designing and building cold-climate super-insulated homes for 30 years and have been teaching sustainable design and hygro-thermal engineering for the past half dozen.</p>
<p>If by "themal shock" you mean the differential expansion and consequent internal stresses felt by a material undergoing rapid temperature change, then that's an issue only for fully-adhered roofing materials, not for most roofings.</p>
<p>As for how much heat enters the structure, that depends not just on surface characteristics but on the conductivity and emissivity of the roof membrane, whether the attic is ventilated, how much thermal insulation separates the roof/attic from conditioned space, how well the conditioned space is pneumatically isolated from the attic, and the pressure differential between attic and conditioned space. </p>
<p>In cold climates, with most roofs vented and the code-required R-38 to R-49 insulation in the attic, the surface characteristics of roofing materials makes little difference.</p>
<p>We don't foolishly put HVAC mechanicals in attics, and our energy efficiency depends far more on heat load than cooling load.</p>
<p>So your "test" is not applicable to most homes in America and not at all to homes here in cold country.</p>
<p>But, if you only have a hammer, everything looks like a nail.</p> Robert,
You need to take th…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2012-09-03:6069565:Comment:928892012-09-03T23:04:00.728ZHal Skinnerhttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/HalSkinner
<p>Robert,</p>
<p> </p>
<p>You need to take the blinders off, your talking about being a professional rater. I am not a home energy rater, nor have I ever claimed to be one.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>The lesson has now ended and the test will begin. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>1. If you apply a reflective barrier coating to a residential asphalt shingle roof will it have an effect on thermal shock?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>2. If that coating has solar reflectivity of 83% and thermal emissivity of 90%, how much of that heat…</p>
<p>Robert,</p>
<p> </p>
<p>You need to take the blinders off, your talking about being a professional rater. I am not a home energy rater, nor have I ever claimed to be one.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>The lesson has now ended and the test will begin. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>1. If you apply a reflective barrier coating to a residential asphalt shingle roof will it have an effect on thermal shock?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>2. If that coating has solar reflectivity of 83% and thermal emissivity of 90%, how much of that heat energy actually enters the structure? </p>
<p> </p>
<p>3. If the reflective roof coating has those same numbers, what effect will those specific numbers have on the thermal shock on that same asphalt shingle roof? </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Robert, you are a professional energy rater. You deal with energy efficient materials, including reflective roof coatings apparently. Dropping the electric bills is not the only thing that these materials do. They have other money saving effects for the customer. If you are the expert you say you are, you should not have a problem answering those questions. Any time I talk to a home owner, Plant Operations Manager or Engineer all these things that I have mentioned in this thread I must have an answer for including what it is going to do to their electric bill and why.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>You deal with energy efficient roof coatings. You surely must know the other positive effects these coatings have on a structure. It is part of your business to know and explain these things to any prospective customer, these other added benefits of the reflective roof coatings. </p>
<p>I will be very interested in hearing your response.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>HS/ks</p> Sorry, but there's a differen…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2012-09-03:6069565:Comment:927322012-09-03T21:11:31.052ZRobert Riversonghttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/RobertRiversong
<p>Sorry, but there's a difference between a discussion among energy professionals and a sales pitch complete with YouTube videos.</p>
<p>Sorry, but there's a difference between a discussion among energy professionals and a sales pitch complete with YouTube videos.</p> Robert,
Despite the title bei…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2012-09-03:6069565:Comment:928862012-09-03T20:52:20.590ZJoshua Knittelhttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/JoshuaKnittel
<p>Robert,</p>
<p>Despite the title being a little misleading and some of your questions being legitimate, I would have hoped for a little more civility and less hostility on the threads here. You're last reply is pretty harsh.</p>
<blockquote><p><i>An "expert" on only one product is no expert at all, but merely a salesman.</i></p>
<p><i> </i></p>
</blockquote>
<p>I regretfully came across as somewhat hostile in my first reply to Hal even though I feel my argument is still valid - but we don't…</p>
<p>Robert,</p>
<p>Despite the title being a little misleading and some of your questions being legitimate, I would have hoped for a little more civility and less hostility on the threads here. You're last reply is pretty harsh.</p>
<blockquote><p><i>An "expert" on only one product is no expert at all, but merely a salesman.</i></p>
<p><i> </i></p>
</blockquote>
<p>I regretfully came across as somewhat hostile in my first reply to Hal even though I feel my argument is still valid - but we don't have to discredit someone's expertise in order to make a point do we?<br/> <br/> From what I've read - Hal has been professional, courteous and a good example so far.....</p> Then why did you misleadingly…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2012-09-03:6069565:Comment:928852012-09-03T20:33:11.349ZRobert Riversonghttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/RobertRiversong
<p>Then why did you misleadingly title this thread <span>"Different classifications of radiant barrier materials"? </span></p>
<p>An "expert" on only one product is no expert at all, but merely a salesman.</p>
<p>Then why did you misleadingly title this thread <span>"Different classifications of radiant barrier materials"? </span></p>
<p>An "expert" on only one product is no expert at all, but merely a salesman.</p> Robert,
You specifically me…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2012-09-03:6069565:Comment:927002012-09-03T20:25:30.464ZHal Skinnerhttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/HalSkinner
<p>Robert,</p>
<p> </p>
<p>You specifically mention roof products. I am only an expert on my own product, I do not speak about other peoples product. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>What I gave you was a partial check list for ANY roof coating being considered. I did mention the name of the product that I have worked with for 26 years. I have gone up against dozens of "competitive" coatings, side-side, in those years. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>I was hoping you or someone else would fill in a few more of the blanks…</p>
<p>Robert,</p>
<p> </p>
<p>You specifically mention roof products. I am only an expert on my own product, I do not speak about other peoples product. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>What I gave you was a partial check list for ANY roof coating being considered. I did mention the name of the product that I have worked with for 26 years. I have gone up against dozens of "competitive" coatings, side-side, in those years. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>I was hoping you or someone else would fill in a few more of the blanks that I did not. For example: it should have good elastimeric properties. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>There are two people that are qualified to certify applicators of our product for warrentee applications; the inventor of the product and myself. Sorry, sometimes it hard for me to get out of the teaching mode. I'll try not to be so offensive the next time. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>HS/ks</p>
<p><a href="http://www.ct-coating.com/">www.ct-coating.com</a></p> This was supposed to be a thr…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2012-09-03:6069565:Comment:927312012-09-03T19:10:36.816ZRobert Riversonghttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/RobertRiversong
<p>This was supposed to be a thread on "Different classifications of radiant barrier materials" but you have turned it into a sales pitch for your product.</p>
<p>This was supposed to be a thread on "Different classifications of radiant barrier materials" but you have turned it into a sales pitch for your product.</p> Sorry Robert, something came…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2012-09-03:6069565:Comment:926992012-09-03T18:40:45.952ZHal Skinnerhttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/HalSkinner
<p>Sorry Robert, something came up and had to leave the computer and had to start a new reply. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>In the case of our coating it took 450-500 lbs pull to seperate the rooled roofing (TAMCO). Our coating penitrated into the first layer of felt, the seperation was between the first and second layer of felt. Our coating becomes a part of the roof, it doesn't just sit on top. This also means, in the case of asphalt or comp shingles on a house, that same amount of force will be…</p>
<p>Sorry Robert, something came up and had to leave the computer and had to start a new reply. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>In the case of our coating it took 450-500 lbs pull to seperate the rooled roofing (TAMCO). Our coating penitrated into the first layer of felt, the seperation was between the first and second layer of felt. Our coating becomes a part of the roof, it doesn't just sit on top. This also means, in the case of asphalt or comp shingles on a house, that same amount of force will be required to seperate to the overlaping shingle on top from the shingle underneath. This is a HUGE selling point in area's of the country that experience high winds. We have even had cases in Texas and Oklahoma where the Cerama Tech roof was undamaged and everyone elses in the general area was stripped off by a tornado. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>As far as waterproofing a roof goes, that goes without saying that it must be an ability of what type of a roof is being installed.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>The roof coating must also have anti-fungul properties. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Longevity and warrenty are also an issue especially in roof coatings. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>The material's solar reflectivity, thermal emissivity and energy savings is only 1 aspect of a roof coating. There are many other aspects that must be considered and included in any proposal to a prospective customer. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Reduced load on the cooling system will not only reduce the energy bill but will extend the life of the unit itself, another HUGE selling point as an example.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Your residently customers are going to want to hear everything and how it will benifit them, and for how long. They are making a big investment and the more information you can present to them to make it a SMART investment and show them how they are going to save money in many different ways, open their eyes to savings they would have never considered will make them much more willing to sign the dotted line. If your only presentation to them is on simple energy savings you will have a rough time making that sale. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>If you can give them a deminstration of how the coating can also retain heat, a deminstration they can feel themselves at the time and demonstrate year-round energy savings, so much the better.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>That's it for now.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>HS/ks</p> Hi Robert,
Anytime you are…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2012-09-03:6069565:Comment:929082012-09-03T17:52:21.306ZHal Skinnerhttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/HalSkinner
<p>Hi Robert,</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Anytime you are considering a roofing material, you are considering a new roof or a new roofing system. Any new roof must have good bonding. I use the word bonding because it becomes a part of the roof. To adhere to a roof means that it sits on top and kind of sticks to it. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Now, I will have to speek specifically about roof coatings. A roof coating's ability to bond will differ depending on the type of material it is being applied to. I will…</p>
<p>Hi Robert,</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Anytime you are considering a roofing material, you are considering a new roof or a new roofing system. Any new roof must have good bonding. I use the word bonding because it becomes a part of the roof. To adhere to a roof means that it sits on top and kind of sticks to it. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Now, I will have to speek specifically about roof coatings. A roof coating's ability to bond will differ depending on the type of material it is being applied to. I will use, for example, residential asphalt shingles and commercial rooled roofing. Some roof coatings will adhere, as you say sit on top and stick to the ceramic particals. Depending on the age of the shingles those particles may not be bonding very well to the felt underneath. There is a bonding test that is used for this specific application, I believe</p> To get back to your topic, th…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2012-09-03:6069565:Comment:927282012-09-03T00:48:47.146ZRobert Riversonghttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/RobertRiversong
<p>To get back to your topic, the adhesion of a roofing material is important as a weather barrier, but irrelevant as a radiant barrier.</p>
<p>To get back to your topic, the adhesion of a roofing material is important as a weather barrier, but irrelevant as a radiant barrier.</p>