I work with quite a few Muslims. Some are as ignorant and arrogant as imaginable but others(the moderates) think the fundies are nuts.
I have asked many if them questions about drawing Muhammad, burning the Quran and sharia. I get a mixture of answers.
But it might be fair to add that the moderates I speak to have never read the Quran. They are pretty well cultural Muslims.

(29-05-2014 08:03 AM)Chas Wrote: The problem is that they don't condemn it.

Where is the outrage from these so-called moderate Muslims? Nowhere. It rarely happens.

If moderate Muslims want any respect, they have to publicly disavow the zealots.
Otherwise, they are part of the problem.

I was speaking about what they'd say in private conversation, but they do speak out. Not all the time, no, but it happens a lot more than media coverage suggests. Here's one example. It took me about a minute to find... not hard at all.

And no, I'm not singing the praises of moderate Islam. I'm just saying that the stereotype of all Muslims as being with the terrorists is... a great overstatement.

You seem to be objecting to things I didn't say.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.

(29-05-2014 09:13 AM)Reltzik Wrote: I was speaking about what they'd say in private conversation, but they do speak out. Not all the time, no, but it happens a lot more than media coverage suggests. Here's one example. It took me about a minute to find... not hard at all.

And no, I'm not singing the praises of moderate Islam. I'm just saying that the stereotype of all Muslims as being with the terrorists is... a great overstatement.

(29-05-2014 08:03 AM)Chas Wrote: The problem is that they don't condemn it.

Where is the outrage from these so-called moderate Muslims? Nowhere. It rarely happens.

If moderate Muslims want any respect, they have to publicly disavow the zealots.
Otherwise, they are part of the problem.

I get your point, but it's not quite that simple. If even Misanthropik feels the slight discomfort mentioned here...

(29-05-2014 01:27 AM)Misanthropik Wrote: That I even feel a hint of insecurity about my personal safety is absolutely flooring.

...how much more magnified is that discomfort for Muslims that might speak out? It doesn't necessarily mean they don't want to speak out, just that they don't do so. And I agree that they need to do so, but it's also easy for me to say when it's not my head out there on the chopping block.

They probably need something on the order of a revolution, but it's difficult for that to organize since people expressing opposition have a way of suddenly dying.

(29-05-2014 08:03 AM)Chas Wrote: The problem is that they don't condemn it.

Where is the outrage from these so-called moderate Muslims? Nowhere. It rarely happens.

If moderate Muslims want any respect, they have to publicly disavow the zealots.
Otherwise, they are part of the problem.

I get your point, but it's not quite that simple. If even Misanthropik feels the slight discomfort mentioned here...

(29-05-2014 01:27 AM)Misanthropik Wrote: That I even feel a hint of insecurity about my personal safety is absolutely flooring.

...how much more magnified is that discomfort for Muslims that might speak out? It doesn't necessarily mean they don't want to speak out, just that they don't do so. And I agree that they need to do so, but it's also easy for me to say when it's not my head out there on the chopping block.

They probably need something on the order of a revolution, but it's difficult for that to organize since people expressing opposition have a way of suddenly dying.

My point is that if they don't speak out, they have no call to bitch about people's attitude toward Islam - they are doing nothing to counter it.

Silence is tacit approval.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.