Saturday, February 26, 2011

James White Sez on His Webcast That I "Project Abject Looniness" and Have "Absolutely" No "Credibility"

Bishop White has to stop being so negative. It reflects badly on him and his unsavory tactics are becoming over-exposed.

First, let's note the reason why this is taking place. White: the Grand Poobah of Internet Anti-Catholic Protestants (perhaps of all anti-Catholics) has called me names and mocked and ridiculed and insulted (while refusing to engage in ongoing substantive debate) for 15 years. There is nothing new in that, generally speaking. It's his standard modus operandi with folks who disagree with him.

The current outbreak of slander is due to my critiquing his bogus doctorate. I have done this now three times. The second and third were both as a result of his sidekicks again defending his degree on his blog. If it weren't for that, I wouldn't have given it any additional thought or time since my first critique in 2004. Here they are:

This paper is again in response to his stepping-up of the insults. He only hurts himself. If he would simply shut up about it, or stop allowing comrades to engage in knee-jerk defenses of the indefensible, then he wouldn't be faced with three of my four papers. Manning up and rationally defending his positions (like the scholar he falsely claims to be) is apparently out of the question: always has been where I am concerned, since 1995 and our first debate by US Mail, where he performed very poorly, insulted up and down, and fled for the hills when he had no more answers to straightforward logical questions.

His Dividing Line webcast of 22 February 2011 exhibited the by-now classic and timeworn (YAWN) White attack dog tactics. He described the attack portion in his blog announcement for it as "A few comments at the end about . . . some of the looniness currently being seen out on the net." Here is what he said on the public webcast (you can hear it yourself following the link above):

[53:11] But isn't it nice, in this situation, to be able to answer these questions and to do so in a respectful and biblical fashion. And it really strikes me as an amazing example in contrast to the abject looninessthat is going on out in the world today, specifically in the Internet.

[53:55] There is another Muslim out there . . . his nickname is grandverbalizer19 . . . [55:00] Some of you know that right now on certain blogs out there in the blogosphere, there is so much libel, slander, bile, hatred, anger, and the number of lies defies the imagination, being thrown about by people . . . the silliest combox comment I've ever seen in the entirety of my life . . . [56:19] This is on Dave Armstrong's blog. Where else, but on good old DA's blog, will you find something as utterly inane as this?!! [laughs] Here it is [quotes the comment made in my combox on 2-21-11] . . . [57:37] . . . on Dave Armstrong's blog, where , of course, they were recycling stuff that is now, what, 1999 or something like that, from a Mormon; it's nowhere near accurate anymore . . . it's been debunked a thousand times before, but it's the best Dave's got, you know, you gotta give the guy credit; he gets refuted and he keeps repeating himself. It's a sad thing to watch. . . . [58:48] Folks, give these people the amount of weight they have earned. Okay? That means someone like a grandverbalizer19, or a Dave Armstrong, or a Peter Lumpkins, or a Ray or Roy, or any of the rest of these people. Give them the credibility they have earned, which is absolutely, positively none. Keep that in mind.

1) It is beyond silly to blast me for every remark made on my blog by people I don't agree with (this person is a Muslim). It's a little thing called "free speech." I know that White has only a dim familiarity with it because he has never allowed any comments at all on his blog. He used to at least claim that he allowed free debate in his chat room, but I was routinely kicked out within minutes by one of his henchmen (usually David T. King) when I dared to show up. I was banned from his buddy Eric Svendsen's discussion board years ago, and from his crony John Q. Doe's blog a few months back. I've had comments deleted in another fellow anti-Catholic, Steve Hays' blog. But I rarely ban people. Even when I do, they are usually allowed back (e.g., Doe sidekick Ken Temple) if they will talk substantively. So, with that background, it is utterly ridiculous for White to make a big deal over this guy's comment (a person I don't know from Adam), as if it has anything to do with me ("Where else, but on good old DA's blog, will you find something as utterly inane as this?"). I get lots of inane comments, but, curiously, they are always from people I disagree with: whether they come from anti-Catholic zealots (White's crowd), or geocentrists, or radical traditionalist Catholics, or atheists. I don't agree with 'em! But they are allowed to express themselves on my blog.

2) White has great fun noting that the ridiculous remark was made on my blog. What he ignores, of course, was my response, made right below the silly comment about White supposedly becoming a Muslim. I wrote: "That's about as likely as Obama joining the tea party. :-)" I considered a stronger statement than that (such as a Hamas member becoming an orthodox Jew or some such), but my usual policy in the face of ludicrosity is one of three things: ignoring it, resorting to humor, or understatement. I chose the third in this instance; but in any event, I clearly disagreed with it. Yet White thinks it is perfectly ethical to make fun of the fact that it appeared on my blog (that allows free speech), as if this proves anything about me, while ignoring my stated disagreement with it, right below it. That would be context; that would actually be fair, and thus, White doesn't do that, because he has not been noted for his emphasis on being fair to my positions or to me personally (there's another example of my extreme understatement).

3) "on Dave Armstrong's blog, where , of course, they were recycling stuff that is now, what, 1999 or something like that, from a Mormon." I wasn't "recycling" anything. As I stated above, I had no thoughts about this stuff at all. I knew nothing about the threads on Peter Lumpkins' blog. I merely happened to check in on White's blog, and I ran across statements about the fake doctorate degree from his buddy Rich Pierce:

We have never hidden this from anyone but have yet to have a single critic actually interact with Dr. White's reasoning for following the path that he did.

This is a flat-out lie, since I did exactly that in 2004, in my first article on the topic, listed above. It is because of the falsehood that I again wrote about it. When people lie, it only gets them into more trouble than the initial issue has already caused them. I have two photographs that were taken by a Mormon. Nothing is inaccurate about them. The Columbia Evangelical Seminary was in this building and this room that were shown in the photos. I had some fun with it; it was obviously semi-humorous. But White has never taken well to any humor at his expense -- while he dishes out a ton of it at others' expense: often involving falsehood somewhere along the line. Here's some more humor. I wrote on Lumpkins' blog tonight:

Proud to be a fellow loon, Peter! . . . I dared to note that White got his "doctorate" by mailing in 100 proof-of-purchase labels from boxes of Cheerios.

White is quite irrational enough to be capable of thinking that I actually literally believe this. :-)

4) White and his followers haven't "debunked" anything in this regard. He has given a rationale for his reasoning in getting a degree from an unaccredited school, but he hasn't shown that his degree is legitimate, or that he has earned the right to call himself a "Dr." as if he is an academic, with all that that entails.

5) I need not respond to his endless personal, merely juvenile rank insults towards me (loony, no credibility and so forth, ad nauseum); I never do. I merely expose them, and they refute themselves. The more extreme the better, from where I sit; he only hurts himself. I have pointed out a few matters of fact in this paper, and how White has distorted them. It's standard White tactics, sad to say. I know: as a persistent target of his for 15 years.

Baptist pastor Peter Lumpkins (a thoughtful, reflective Protestant not burdened by a ridiculous and irrational anti-Catholicism as White is) was kind enough to write the following about me on his blog:

Dave,

From one loon to another, thanks for logging on ;^). More seriously, I've read some of your stuff. And, you're no loon, I assure. Obviously, we'd have some profound disagreements in certain theological areas. But there is also much in which we could agree.One thing seemed certain from my brief reading of your material, Dave--you're careful in your language and you appear to disagree with restraint.

Thanks for your kind words, and for reading some of my writing. There is, of course, much we agree on. The irony is that the same is true between White and myself. We could work together against abortion, homosexual "marriage," KJV-only, Mormonism, Islam, Jehovah's Witnesses, atheism, liberal theology (of all stripes), defense of the inspiration of the Bible and the Trinity and Grace Alone, etc. I've written about all these things, excepting KJV-onlyism. But White can never acknowledge any of that (I have, the other way around). And that is because he defined me from the beginning of our interactions (in 1995) as never a Christian at any time (I used to be an Arminian evangelical before I became a Catholic), and certainly not now. Therefore, nothing I do, even when he agrees, can possibly be of any worth.If there is anything "loony" here (I don't return his insult; I'm being rhetorical), it is that foolish attitude. The devil absolutely loves dividing and conquering. It's one of his most successful strategies.I have always said that if White is ever to be corrected, it would have to come from his fellow Baptists or even his inner circle. The sad thing, though, is that he seems to respond no more to critique from Baptists than anyone else. He attacks Protestants who disagree with him just as irrationally and unscrupulously as he attacks Catholics like myself.Curious, though, isn't it, how White regards me as dumber than a doornail (so he says), yet has challenged me three times to an oral debate (in 1995, 2001, and 2007). It seems to be a cyclical thing (he's due again in 2013). So how can this be? Does it mean that he seeks out the very worst opponents he can find? Or does he look for the best, most able opponents?I always interact with the sharpest opponents I can find, myself, if I am looking for an intelligent, constructive debate.

Look for more obscurantist, sophistical, obfuscatory, paranoid, irrational, insulting replies from White. He always claims to not care about these things, but his extreme replies put the lie to that. He even was perhaps subtly conspiratorial in his webcast, referring to an allegiance of "Muslims, Arminians . . ." against him. He didn't include Catholics, but of course he mentioned me, and people who know me online at all know that I am a Catholic. So it's the grand conspiracy of Muslims, Arminians (he didn't want to say Baptist; that wouldn't sound too good), and Catholics: all motivated by (how did he put it?): "libel, slander, bile, hatred, anger, and . . . lies." That's us, folks! All who disagree with White must be liars and evil people and loons and utterly lacking in all credibility, you see. How could it possibly be otherwise?

Martin Luther would have consented to White being drowned by the local magistrate for sedition and heresy (since he did so with the Anabaptists, on the grounds of their belief in adult believer's baptism). I say he is a fellow Christian and recipient of two valid sacraments (baptism and marriage). But I am supposedly filled with hatred and an inveterate liar, just like all his other critics.

7 comments:

Dave I understand your fustration with James White and his attacks, but why do you pay any attention to him? He's not a legitimate apologist, he's just an embittered, hateful, narcisstic crank. As a person who has dealt with JW clones in my own life, the best thing you can do is to ignore him. Paying attention to him will just sour you in the long run. Unless he's a threat to your personal safety, ignore him completely. Pray for him, but ignore him publically. If your worried about any influence he and the Begger's All crowd might have if you don't oppose them, I wouldn't worry about it. They have a very small audience and because of their arrogant attitudes and behaviors, they are probably repelling more people than attracting them. If you got to have an arguement with a Protestant appologist, pick one ot who has good manners and leave the White types to simmer intheir own juices.

And when I do that the motivation is not to defend myself, but rather, to reveal the true stripes of how White and his cronies habitually operate, by telling the truth about them.

That helps the Catholic cause, because he is a major enemy of the Catholic Church, so that if his methods are revealed for what they are, less people will follow him, and hence (probably), less will reject the Catholic Church.

Since the latter two ends are good things, I think it is worth it once in a while to do this.

I read your post. I have said many times that I have no objection whatever to the course of study that he took or the reasons why he did it. My only objection is to calling it a doctorate, when it isn't, by any stretch of the imagination.

I don't doubt that he could have gotten a real one if circumstances were different (I could have to, if I wanted to do so). But he didn't in fact and he can't simply change the reality to pretend that he did.

He'll never understand, it seems, why people object to this. But it's a perfectly legitimate point about an illegitimate degree.

--- Marcus Grodi (director of The Coming Home Network, and host of the EWTN television show: The Journey Home)

I highly recommend his work, A Biblical Defense of Catholicism, which I find to be thoroughly orthodox, well-written, and effective for the purpose of making Catholic truth more understandable and accessible to the public at large.

God bless you in your indefatigable labors on behalf of the Faith! Only God knows how many lives your efforts have touched with the truth. . . . God bless you and give you joy and strength in persevering in your important ministry.

There is someone out there who says what I have to say much better than I ever could -- the smartest Catholic apologist I know of -- Dave Armstrong.

--- Amy Welborn (Catholic author and blogmaster)

I love your books, love your site, love everything you do. God bless you in your work. I'm very grateful for all you've done, and for all you make available. If someone pitches a hard question at me, I go first to your site. Then I send the questioner directly to the page that best answers the question. I know it's going to be on your site.

--- Mike Aquilina (Catholic apologist and author of several books)

People regularly tell me how much they appreciate your work. This new book sounds very useful. Your website is incredible and I recommend it regularly to new Catholics.

--- Al Kresta (Host of Kresta in the Afternoon [EWTN], author of Why Do Catholics Genuflect? and other books)

Dave Armstrong's book A Biblical Defense of Catholicism was one of the first Catholic apologetics books that I read when I was exploring Catholicism. Ever since then, I have continued to appreciate how he articulates the Catholic Faith through his blog and books. I still visit his site when I need a great quote or clarification regarding anything . . . Dave is one of the best cyber-apologists out there.--- Dr. Taylor Marshall (apologist and author of The Crucified Rabbi)

I love how Dave makes so much use of the Scriptures in his arguments, showing that the Bible is fully compatible with Catholicism, even more plausibly so than it is with Protestantism.. . . Dave is the hardest working Catholic apologist I know. He is an inspiration to me.

--- Devin Rose (apologist and author of The Protestant's Dilemma, 28 May 2012 and 30 Aug. 2013)Dave Armstrong['s] website is an amazing treasure trove representing hours–yea a lifetime of material gathered to defend Catholic doctrine. Over the years Dave has gathered the evidence for Catholic teaching from just about every source imaginable. He has the strength not only to understand the Catholic faith, but to understand the subtleties and arguments of his Protestant opponents.--- Fr. Dwight Longenecker (author and prominent blogmaster, 6-29-12)

You are a very friendly adversary who really does try to do all things with gentleness and respect. For this I praise God.--- Nathan Rinne (Lutheran apologist [LC-MS] )

You are one of the most thoughtful and careful apologists out there.

Dave, I disagree with you a lot, but you're honorable and gentlemanly, and you really care about truth. Also, I often learn from you, even with regard to my own field. [1-7-14]

--- Dr. Edwin W. Tait (Anglican Church historian)

Dave Armstrong writes me really nice letters when I ask questions. . . . Really, his notes to me are always first class and very respectful and helpful. . . . Dave Armstrong has continued to answer my questions in respectful and helpful ways. I thank the Lord for him.

--- The late Michael Spencer (evangelical Protestant), aka "The Internet Monk", on the Boar's Head Tavern site, 27 and 29 September 2007

Dave Armstrong is a former Protestant Catholic who is in fact blessedly free of the kind of "any enemy of Protestantism is a friend of mine" coalition-building . . . he's pro-Catholic (naturally) without being anti-Protestant (or anti-Orthodox, for that matter).

---"CPA": Lutheran professor of history [seehis site]: unsolicited remarks of 12 July 2005

I am reading your stuff since I think it is the most thorough and perhaps the best defense of Catholicism out there . . . Dave has been nothing but respectful and kind to me. He has shown me great respect despite knowing full well that I disagree with him on the essential issues.

Dave has been a full-time apologist for years. He’s done much good for thousands of people.

You have a lot of good things to say, and you're industrious. Your content often is great. You've done yeoman work over the decades, and many more people [should] profit from your writing. They need what you have to say.--- Karl Keating (founder and director of Catholic Answers, the largest Catholic apologetics organization in the world; 5 Sep. 2013 and 1 Jan. 2015)

Whether one agrees with Dave's take on everything or not, everyone should take it quite seriously, because he presents his arguments formidably.

I like the way you present your stuff Dave ... 99% of the time.--- Protestant Dave Scott, 4-22-14 on my personal Facebook page.

Who is this Dave Armstrong? What is he really like? Well, he is affable, gentle, sweet, easily pleased, very appreciative, and affectionate . . . I was totally unprepared for the real guy. He's a teddy bear, cuddly and sweet. Doesn't interrupt, sits quietly and respectfully as his wife and/or another woman speaks at length. Doesn't dominate the conversation. Just pleasantly, cheerfully enjoys whatever is going on about him at the moment and lovingly affirms those in his presence. Most of the time he has a relaxed, sweet smile.

--- Becky Mayhew (Catholic), 9 May 2009, on the Coming Home Network Forum, after meeting me in person.

Every so often, I recommend great apostolates, websites, etc. And I am very careful to recommend only the very best that are entirely Catholic and in union with the Church. Dave Armstrong’s Biblical Evidence for Catholicism site is one of those. It is a veritable treasure chest of information. Dave is thorough in his research, relentlessly orthodox, and very easy to read.

Discussions with you are always a pleasure, agreeing or disagreeing; that is a rarity these days.

--- David Hemlock (Eastern Orthodox Christian), 4 November 2014.

What I've appreciated, Dave, is that you can both dish out and take argumentative points without taking things personally. Very few people can do that on the Internet. I appreciate hard-hitting debate that isn't taken personally.

--- Dr. Lydia McGrew (Anglican), 12 November 2014.

Dave Armstrong is a friend of mine with whom I've had many discussions. He is a prolific Catholic writer and apologist. If you want to know what the Catholic Church really believes, Dave is a good choice. Dave and I have our disagreements, but I'll put my arm around him and consider him a brother. There is too much dishonesty among all sides in stating what the "other side" believes. I'll respect someone who states fairly what the other believes.

Recommended Catholic Apologetics Links and Icons

Protestantism: Critical Reflections of an Ecumenical Catholic

Orthodoxy & Citation Permission

To the best of my knowledge, all of my theological writing is "orthodox" and not contrary to the official dogmatic and magisterial teaching of the Catholic Church. In the event of any (unintentional) doctrinal or moral error on my part having been undeniably demonstrated to be contrary to the Sacred Tradition of the Catholic Church, I will gladly and wholeheartedly submit to the authority and wisdom of the Church (Matthew 28:18-20; 1 Timothy 3:15).

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