Crisis? What Crisis?

I agree. No crisis here, I just parked my vehicle, got a bus pass, decided to eat more healthy, and decided to spend less money. No crisis where I
am, and I am going to start saving my cash, I hear there might be some good deals on pretty new used cars and houses soon. Win win situation for
me.

I can feel the backlash at that statement now. However, look around, some people have seen this coming for a while because people are way out of
control in their spending. And be realistic, my son and I decided to count the car values on one small street one day, and I counted 2.5 million
dollars with literally in about 2 blocks, in just domestic sedans etc., And every one of those condos were worth $250K plus.

And just who is to blame in all of this. Well, it is like this, I go to a house for supper and they offer me a second piece of cheese cake, extra
creamy, and I take a heart attack because I can't control my personal urges, can I really blame the host? Come on, I need to take some
responsibility for my own actions and desires.

But still, we're in a very real crisis with record low numbers, tons of people losing jobs, and people not having money to pay for anything... Don't
ignore the reality of whats going on, but its ok to hope fore something else as well.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
I might receive some harsh responses to this because the mass-consensus is that we are in "one of the worst economic crises ever" and anyone
who denies that is an idiot and there is no hope and no escape blablablabla...

[edit on 2-3-2009 by Skyfloating]

On similar lines: I remember the 80's (in Britain this is) when far far more jobs were being lost than are at present. However back then it was
manufacturing that was being lost and the finance sector was growing or rather morphing into the beast that has just failed! Today we have that
finance sector collapsing and all the suits in the city crying about how bad things are. Yes there are indeed some non financial casualties due to
their dependence on the finance institutions. But nowhere near the levels of the 80's. A lot of the failed manufacturing would have gone under years
ago had it not been propped up by idiotic bankers. As it is we are now getting an economic purge in a single flush rather then spread over several
years.

Now it is also quite clear that companies are laying off folks to maximise profits the giveaway is : "bla bla blahs profit has fallen by 80% from
last year and will have to lay-off 2000 staff". So tell me economic experts why does a company STILL IN PROFIT!!! (80% LESS NOT A LOSS) need to
layoff folks? Quite simply to maximise the income for those at the top.

What we have here is a situation where the rich tax avoiding idiots have been found out. They continue to behave as they always have and we
"normal" eomployees are the ones carrying the can. I can absolutely guarantee that not one single individual in a position of irresponsibility

of a failed company will be worrying about their mortgage or next job. Ironically a lot of these "failed" executives will be snapped up since
they are now experts at identifying failure!!!!!!!!

The world economy is changing. There is no NWO just a group of people at the top consisting of those who don't give a damn and those who are trying
to change things. The behaviour of those who don't give a damn can be interpreted as the NWO if you are that paranoid.

I choose the latter. I dont buy into what everyone else seems to be thinking these days.

well, I havent been laid off.. yet.. but I most likely WILL be very soon.. and my industry has pretty much ceased to exist.. and I lost about a
quarter of a million dollars this last year in retirement money, benefits and home value...

feels pretty dang real to me. Hmmm. Not trying to flame you, pal, but it's one step away from real trouble for me. And I have no debt outside my
mortgage and live very sensibly.

If the FEMA camps have high speed internet, I'll check in and let you know if it's gotten any less real.

Good and insightful topic. Crisis, indeed? To the person who has lost seemingly all recently...there is no question he would say, "Yes". Many of
us have lost future value in our 401k and house, but these are future losses. However, most have, thus far at least, lost little more than
confidence. But, the entire currency we use today is backed by nothing, save confidence.

I am now 62 years of age (an early model baby-boomer), just retired. My mother, now 85, grew up during the Great Depression. She told me of her
recollections as a child, in Kentucky. Her father died at the beginning of the depression and her mother was left with the burden of raising her
alone. The only job she could get at the time was as a seamstress with the WPA (Roosevelt's make work program for the poor). No welfare existed at
that time...no food pantries...nothing in rural Kentucky. The soup-kitchens were just in the big cities.

She said all they had was a back yard to grow a garden and her mom's small check every other week from the WPA. I remember her telling me of her joy
when her mom received the check, because they would go to the grocery and they could get a pound of bologna...the only meat they would have for the
next two weeks. They toiled in their little garden to raise enough veggies to can for the winter and some kind hearted souls would on occasion give
them some fresh eggs and cow milk. They got by.

She then told me somthing unexpected. She said, "We all helped one another get by". Mom then related that when they had a meal, if they had any
left-overs after eating, her mom would wrap them in newspaper and set the left-overs on the fence post out front. Before long, it would be gone. A
homeless person (back then called a hobo) would silently, but greatfully take the offering and leave. So this is how helping each other worked back
then.

Fast forward to today. Look around you. Do you see patient understanding caring souls about you who would be content to exist in conditions such as
described here, hoping for a better future? Some would, but let's be honest, that person who put out the left-overs on the fence post, in today's
world would probably have his door smashed in and be burglarized and possibly killed. The problem today is in the condition of man's wicked heart.
He doesn't know the first thing about growing a garden and barely knows his neighbor. In many cases, he is a spoiled consumer brat that cares only
for himself and his desires with little empathy for anyone, and will stop at nothing to get what he wants.

Crisis? Sure we have a way to go to hit full-bore depression. But we certainly may see it come. If it does, we can't count on the good-will of our
fellow man to fill the gap. The government knows this. That is the real reason for the FEMA camps...God help us! I have a bad feeling that we may
discover how far we have strayed from those time-honored values of our parents and grandparents in a most painful manner. I don't care so much for
myself...it's my grandchildren that will have to endure the results of our "advanced society".

Hats off Skyfloating ! Both this thread and a discussion on Atlas Shrugged's popularity both in the same evening, finally two beacons of light in the
dark night

The true crisis is that an entrenched society and power base founded on lies and deceit is now being seen exactly for what it is. All the BS we've
been fed about the markets being "safe" and corporate profits / shareholder value needing to be increased at all costs has been recognised. I've
watched company after company with true innovation and entrepreneurial spirit get bought out by bigger corporations and absolutely gutted all in the
name of maximizing profits and keeping an army of do nothing MBA’s and marketers' comfortable.

Maybe Im living on the wrong planet or something. Why do so many think its normal to go into debt? I waited until well into my twenties before I owned
my first car, waited until I had the money to pay all of it up front. Never "bought" a house. Never maxed out credit cards. Why? Because it doesnt
make any sense....at all.

I live in Germany and working in the machine-building-branch.
We don't receive any new orders the last 2 weeks! Only working on long-term fixed contracts which our customers have to order anyway. But nothing (!)
new.

We have 30 workers. Next month, if orders are constant low as now, we have to send 10 people home making them jobless. The following month another 10
people. Leaving 10. 66 % dismissals in only two month is what we expect!!!

Today local radio station aired about the situation and almost every firm was hit that hard!

The USA is big. Not so is Germany. If there are 100.000 jobless in the USA, is nothing compared to were I live.

The crisis is going on snaky and hidden by MSM. It's a domino effect that has to be stopped or this will end unpredictable bad for us all.

I have talked to people in Australia, Greek and others who reported rising prices on food. Greek is about to collapse and will probably get back to
their old currency and quit membership to the EU.

The car industry was about to collapse here in Germany. Our govt, stages a well-being car industry by give away 2500 EUR for trashing the old car and
buy a new car in the name of a wealthy nature. 100.000 people (counting) already took the chance to buy a new car. Calculate yourself and remember
it's the people who pay the taxes. Of course this stage is about natures wealth! (who actually believes that #). Of cause workers still being sent
home because they have no work. Did they produced cars for the next 10 years in advance?

Some firms reduced their shifts to ONE when they used to have THREE and could have another one! (Which is impossible with a shift of 8 hour).

I know the car companies are hurting, but let's face facts. For the last 10 years people have been screaming out for alternative fuel sources and
electric cars. What was the car company response? The Hummer. The F350. Stupid.

Now all of a sudden, people have no money to buy cars, or pay exorbitant prices for petrol, and can't afford to run their giant engines. And they
want to be bailed out! Maybe if they made responsible decisions from the start, they wouldn't be where they are today.

And for those who argue that things like electric cars simply aren't viable, you need to look at the doco 'Who Killed The Electric Car', and Google
a company called Tesla Motors (check out the Tesla Roadster - hot, hot, hot, and some amazing performance stats). Check out Tesla Roadster on Y**tube,
performing against a Ferrari. These are all real and viable alternatives...

I believe you are very correct. I also believe that we will only suffer because the very basics that we've lost the ability to provide for ourselves
will become too expensive. A person can create his own house for a lot less than what the normal person would spend 100k on. But we want it in a
great neighborhood and with all the amenities. That's where we go wrong.

If we had communities that were there to support each other and provide assistance when needed, wherever needed, not expecting payment in money, then
we would have a wonderful world. I unfortunately will not see this in my life time as I believe no one living presently will see. Not coming for a
while now.... Good dream though eh?

Well, I know someone that has lost $5 mil net worth in 6 months. A working class guy that worked hard and made it. Our families company, worth $10 mil
is gone. Hopefully it can be resurrected in 4 or 5 years. My bro-in-law has to put his house up for sale (who is going to buy a house right now?). We
have a friend who has been in real estate for 40+ years - she is struggling, and doing rentals to get by. At my home we've dropped my medical,
dropped our cable, our security system, moved to cheap callular plans, changed insurance on our cars to 3rd party. We can't afford to get our cars
serviced - in fact, there's a bunch of stuff we need to do, but can't. Our house and cars are paid off, and if they weren't, we would be really
hurting, and probably have to move to somewhere crappy. 6 months ago we had none of these worries. I have 2 part time jobs and go to college full
time. I get a grant and a scolarship. My wife works 50 hours a week at least, and we have a 1 year old in day care. We wanted another child, but we
can't now. I'd hate to think what it would be like if we had of had one 4 months ago. We still have bills every month, and taxes and property tax,
and now we're going to also get carbon taxed. awesome. And what does the govt do with our taxes? Gives it to the banks and the car manufacturers.
It's a really messed up situation. I've always worked, I've always tried (I was trying for a degree, but now I will see the semester out and go
work full time, if there's a job), and have never comitted any kind of criminality - and yet me and my familly are pretty much skrewed. And I don't
see it getting any better for a long time. So yes, there is a crisis for me, my family and a whole load of other people. It's pretty insulting to
talk about no crises when people breaking their balls to keep a roof over their heads.

I guess what I'm saying is going by your story, your going to lose your job soon anyways and maybe most that you own, like the majority of the
population. My thing is if I knew this was most likely going to happen, no matter what I do, I would be saying whatever happens is up to me. I would
sell the house and get out of there and move to someones place you knew that owned the land and made them an offer to assist with their land etc for
you being able to put up a house for a few years. You live with a group of people that are willing to share their abilities in certain fields to
exist in a community of real sharing. Not something you find in suburbs or what you call neighborhoods in rural US. Almost the kind of HOBBIT sort
of image.

This is utopia I guess, but from what you say you are in a tailspin and need to find a place that you can make a contribution to your community and
not the bank. Your language clearly shows that your being overtaken with monetary thought and should get away and see that there is a human side.

Not everyone will be lucky enough to get away from the city but it will be hell when water is off and power is down in a hell hole like "insert city
here". I'd get away from it all and say I love my family more than the trinkets.

Maybe Im living on the wrong planet or something. Why do so many think its normal to go into debt? I waited until well into my twenties before I owned
my first car, waited until I had the money to pay all of it up front. Never "bought" a house. Never maxed out credit cards. Why? Because it doesnt
make any sense....at all.

I wasn't as fortunate as you to not fall into this trap but I did however get out of it. As difficult as some think it is to get out of it is not
impossible, you just have to make up your mind to do so and do it. I am 100% debt free and have no credit cards or even a bank account. However, I
lack for nothing.

I don't need a plasma TV, SUV or some other non-essential. I pay cash for everything and that included my last two vehicles and when I no longer
needed them I sold them. If people only bought the things they needed or could afford they would find that no matter what the economy does, it has
little to no effect on them.

While others that are in debt find themselves in a world of hurt. The best advice ever given for this type of situation was by the Apostle Paul when
he said "owe no man anything". Follow that rule and you are recession and depression proof. There is no need to tell you what happens when you
don't.

The choice was always yours, buy in or opt out. I opted out a long time ago.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Maybe Im living on the wrong planet or something. Why do so many think its normal to go into debt? I waited until well into my twenties before I owned
my first car, waited until I had the money to pay all of it up front. Never "bought" a house. Never maxed out credit cards. Why? Because it doesnt
make any sense....at all.

Because we are programmed to believe it's normal, starting from children with things like credit card
barbie for example, commercials on tv, college and even some high school students are targeted by credit card companies. It's like everybody is
trying to impress someone else out in traffic that they will probably never see again. Gotta keep up with my neighbor you know. Just because your
friend, neighbor, co-worker or whoever has a nice house and a nice car doesn't mean they are doing well, most likely they have debt coming out of the
wazoo and that's just the kind of burden I don't want on my shoulders.

Maybe a thread discussing how a credit score is a myth would be good?

Hopefully at the very least this will be a learning experience for all of us and I hope the parents out there will teach their children about how bad
debt is.

Most likely though everyone is still worried more about who got voted off an island and who the next American idol is.

I'm caught up in monetary thought because I have a familly that needs a home, food, utilities, cars to get to work, diapers, hospital bills, taxes.
We are not farmers, but luckilly our familly does own land. I like lving where I live, and so do the rest of my familly. We live in a cul-de-sac, and
it is very community oriented. I talk to my neighbours nearly every day. The 2 that are self employed are starting to hurt now. They have mortgages to
pay, and families. Once the oil and gas refineries shut down, this place is going to really suffer, and it will be a crises for many people. A friend
at college has dropped all his classes as he can no longer afford to go to school. Another guy, his old mans trucking firm just went belly up. He went
belly up because 2 firms that owed him money went belly up. Expect to see this domino effect spreading. I also know of 2 people that moved all their
money outside of US - I expect there will be alot of that too. This crises will grow for sure. There aint no getting away from it. It will affect all
of you sooner or later.

This is sad and hilarious at the same time. It shows the tragedy of "human condition" or the condition of the conditioned, respectively

The sad reality is that I once lived in India in one of the smaller cities close to Pakistan. There the people live in casts that they can never get
out of. If born rich, then rich you will always be. If born an untouchable you were born to a life that is a life that you would never wish upon your
worst enemy. This is their reality, one of being locked into a system they can not change.

However, in the US there is choice but few ever choose to look into the alternatives. Keeping up with the Jones's next door has been spoon fed to the
masses for so long they have bought into the lie. The so called American dream is nothing more than a Hollywood/Banking nightmare for the American
family. It all started in the 60's with the American Express Card. Then came Carte Blanche, Master Card, Visa and others. They made it look so easy
and fun but forgot to tell the truth about the interest and payments and we forgot to read the fine print.

I find it sad that people now use their credit cards to buy just about everything including toilet paper. Long after you have wiped your bum you still
owe money for the paper used. This is insanity to the Nth degree.

We are quick to blame the "greedy bankers" or "Wall Street" for the problem, but did you really need all those credit cards? Now you find yourself
up to your neck in debt if not in over your head. The economy is circling the bowl and about to go down the drain taking you with it.

Is it the American publics fault? Well...that is a yes and no. Some of it is because we bought the lie and no because Wall Street and the Bankers got
greedy for the rest of it. They thought they could get a free lunch but its time to pay the tab and theres no money. Now we are stuck with a $10.4
trillion dollar bill that we simply can not pay and we weren't invited to the lunch.

So where do we go from here? Sadly the system will crash causing untold suffering and many will pay the highest price with their lives. A new system
will be put into place that prevents you from getting out of your new 'cast'. Could it have been avoided, maybe, then again maybe not. Human nature
is what it is and getting something without a visible cost will always catch the eye and the wallet. It takes a conscience decision to alter the out
come. As I said before, the choice was always yours. I have refused to be part of that system and opted out...will you?

My husband works in the housing industry.
Every single one of our friends has been laid off. Business has been very bad.
Many have been unemployed for 8 months now. Luckily most have a working spouse, but they've all taken a huge hit. 2 sets of our friends had to move
elsewhere.
So it might be...that you aren't seeing it, but it could be regional; I think in time if it doesn't get better it will spread, cascade.
It is bad here.

Ok i am poor as dirt.
I don;t care if millionaire's loose there money in the stock market.
why?
Cause if they loose money it has to go somewhere...maybe a middle class person perhap's.

But i will say this and know it to be 100% correct.
I save 500 dollars a month for food.
buy and deeep freeze ect.. for the whole month...I HATE STORE'S..
and i have did this same method for 10 year's or more.
Now when i do this..i run out of food buying exact same food..1 week before the month end's.

This is what happen ...i kept receipts over a year.
Let's say ramen noodles cost 15 cent a pack a year ago..then 27 now...
a box of crackers was 99 cent..now 1.99 for same brand.
everything in store's like walmart price's are up yeah.. a few cents here or there...
but if you buy 100 item's at 25 cent price increase each.
do the math.
thats 25 dollar's extra or less food i can buy...
but it more like close to 50 cent increase..they raise price on milk..a must for kids ect...2.99 for milk a child drink's a gallon in 2 days cereal
cuppy's ect.
Meat any type ..up a good 30% from last year.

that's where it hurt's the low class sector of america.
people who live paycheck to paycheck that keep america going.

a man shouldnt have to work 90 hours a week in america to afford to pay the standard bill's..and put food on the table.
At same time our goverment pays for banks to get bonus's for the employers that bankrupted them to start with lol
Something doesn't add up

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