Sri Bhagwan also said that of all the ways Self-enquiry is the easiest. But Sri Bhagwan also said that the desire for Self-realization while still holding on to the 'I am the body' idea is akin to crossing a river clinging to a crocodile.

What do the above two statements of Sri Bhagwan mean to us ? My understanding is as following : They mean that so long as one identifies himself with the body, Self-knowledge is not easy. But when one ,by Grace, contemplation and earnest will to know the Truth, discards 'I am the body' idea and doubts genuinely the body-identity, Self-attention is effortless outcome of Self-enquiry leading to Self-awareness.

Your interpretation is also good. But what Bhagavan Ramana told as to why it is easy, this Self Knowledge is:

1. For good karmas like helping others, feeding others, building temples, running free schools, hospitals etc., one needs moneyand people to assist him.

2. For bhakti i.e. devotional path, one needs a god's imageby way of photos or idols and flowers, sandal paste, incense sticks,camphor for lighting, coconuts, fruits and finally good sweets and cooked rice for submitting the same as Naivedyam, offering.

3. For yoga marga, one needs a good physique, capacity to retainbreath within the lungs, concentration, etc.,

However for Self Knowledge, one does not need any outsideassistance or even a good physique. One can even lie on thebed, and inquire who am I? One should only direct the attentionto the Self. No specific place or time. No wealth and health isneeded. And that is why it is easy.

In Talks No. 551, when someone asked about the Atma Vidyabeing easy, Bhagavan Ramana gave the replies:

Q: How is that Atma Vidya [Self Knowledge] is said to be theeasiest?

Bhagavan: Any other vidya requires, a knower, knowledge, and the object to be known, where this does not require any of them.It is the Self. Can anything be so obvious as that? Hence it isthe easiest. All that you do is to inquire, Who am I?

The main problem lies here, it is very difficult to turn around inside because the habit of going and looking outside for many many janmas. Even if it is turned the mind does not stay for a second. As Bhagavan says grace is necessary for everything.It is like URIADI UTCHAVAM. Many many slips between cups and lips.

Yes. I fully agree with you. It is easier said than done. The mindis so attuned to jump outside [because of vasanas] and we alwaystry to search the Truth through external forms like worships, dhana,dharma, etc., Bhagavan Ramana never criticized these things. For many devotees, these things were going on side by side alongwith self inquiry. But what He said that the Self is ever more directlyperceivable than even the nellikai [amla fruit] on the palm.

Bhagavan: As an example of direct perception, everyone will quotethe simile of the nellikai [amla fruit] placed on the palm of the hand.The Self is even more directly perceivable than the fruit on the palm.To perceive the fruit, there must be the fruit, the palm to place it onand the eyes to see it. The mind should also be in the proper condition [to process the information]. Without any of these fourthings, even those with very little knowledge can say out directexperience, "I am". Because the Self exists just the feeling "I am".Atma Vidya [Self Knowledge] is very easy indeed. The easiest path is to see the one who is going to attain the Atma.

Another devotee asked a similar question in a little later and Bhagavan gave a similar reply:

Question: Why cannot the Self be perceived directly?

Bhagavan: Only the Self is said to be directly perceived [pratyaksha]. Nothing else is said to be pratyaksha. Although,we are having this pratyaksha, the thought "I am this body" is veiling it. If we give up this thought, the Atma, which is always within the direct experience of everyone, will shine forth.

Yes. What you say is correct. The Self is self revealing. Aparoksha.This is more clearly explained by Bhagavan Ramana, in Talks No. 466.

Question: Is not the Self the witness only? Sakshimatra?

Bhagavan: "Witness" is applicable when there is an object to beseen. Then it is duality. The truth lies beyond both. In the mantra,sakshi cheta kevalo nirgunascha, the word 'Sakshi' must be understood as Sannidhi - Presence, without which there could be nothing. See how the sun is necessary for daily activities. He doesnot form part of the world actions. Yet they cannot take place without the sun. He is the witness of activities. So it is with the Self.

Again in Day By Day, entry dated 18th July 1946:

Bhagavan: Talking of "witness" should not lead to the ideathat there is a witness and something else apart from him that heis witnessing. The 'Witness' really means the light that illuminesthe seer, the seen and the process of seeing. Before, during andafter the triads of seer, seen, and seeing, the illumination exists.It alone exists always.

You remember, srkudai, sometime back, there was some discussionon "witnessing the consciousness". Consciousness cannot be witnessed. Consciousness Is. If someone had mentioned so, itis only in the light of this explanation by Bhagavan Ramana.

The Self is not giving any experience. Bhagavan Ramana says It illumines. This illumination will confer the experiencer to experiencethe Bliss. He is simply blissful, Sat-Chit-Anandam. That is all.In that state of Bliss only, Mastan Swami remained standing in frontof Bhagavan Ramana for 7 hours. Devaraja Mudaliar had this experience for a few minutes when he was sitting close to BhagavanRamana one day, and when Bhagavan Ramana gazed at him, suddenly. Major Chadwick had it in his bath tub, and came running to Bhagavan Ramana with wet towel around his waist. He asked: "Bhagavan! Is it so simple?" Bhagavan Ramana smiled and said:Yes. It is.

I think this is some sort of a transmission of the power of the Presence. Or it can also be called Guru Krupa. Sri Ramakrishna transmitted to Vivekananda, something similar to it. I am not sure.

For him who is the bliss Self, arising from the extinction of the ego,what is there to do? He knows nothing other than this Self. Howto conceive the nature of his state?

Bhagavan's Verse 7 in Guru Vachaka Kovai:

Tranquillity of mind is alone, the liberation that is ever attained.This being so, prey tell, how can those who set their mind onsiddhis, which cannot be gained without mental movement, becomeimmersed in the bliss of liberation that is free from the perturbation of the mind?

Bhagavan Ramana says in Verse 37:

If I slumber in quiet repose enjoying the bliss of being, what othermoksha is there, tell me, O Arunachala!

Thank you so much for a very,very fruitful and satisfying discussion. My understanding about the nature of Self is the same as you have indicated in your posts.

Self is Self-luminous and, therefore, Self-revealing.Self is Absolute Consciousness or Supreme Consciousness. Only and only It is.It admits of no thought whatever.Only vast Silence, nay, Infinite Silence of speechless speech, beyond mind and words.Even saying as the above is only for us, the sadhakas, for the purpose of discussion and intellectual understanding.

Dear Sri Udai Shankar, I agree totally with you that indisputable content of the 'experience' is That about which nothing can be said whatever.

Sri Bhagwan's reply, in this context, with the analogy the Sun, is the most apt one we can ever hope to get. It is Illumination. Presence. Like the Sun which is the cause of every thing.And in its mere presence every activity is taking place. But the Sun will continue to shine even without these.

Sir, I also do not understand the premise of one 'consciousness witnessing the other consciousness'. Consciousness can not be witnessed. Only Consciousness is. They are all the tricks of the ego to escape when subjected to intense search light of Sef-enquiry.

Consciousness shines and illumines others. It is not witnessed.It witnesses the three stages of jagrat, swapna and sushupti.It witnesses, the creation, sustenance and dissolution of theworld. Bhagavan Ramana says in Sri Arunachala PancharatnamVerse 2:

As on a screen a wondrous picture,On You fair Hill, is all this worldFormed, sustained and then withdrawn,Ever as "I" in the heart, you dance,Hence are you called the Heart.

HEART = ATMA = ARUNACHALAM = CONSCIOUSNESS.

Consciousness is the ocean of grace. It is also the glitteringsun. It makes the heart blossom, like the sun makes the lotusblossom - Verse 1 of the same.

Dear Sir, I feel grateful.The content of your above post makes a great sense and a meaning to me which which is at once profound and deep but at the same time bestowing intuitive understanding as well as awareness of the essence in the post.

However, dear Sir, I wish to listen enlightened and graceful words from you about how ' Full of Nectar' and 'Ocean of Grace' in the first verse of the 'Arunachala Panchratanam' should be understood by us sadhakas?