School me on SONOS and other home streaming systems

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

I can't find a specific thread about this other than some discussion buried in the Spotify thread. Most of my home listening nowadays is through to streaming audio (either digital files or Spotify) straight from my laptop to my living room stereo via an Airport Express. This is fine sound quality-wise but patchy in terms of reliability, and having to open up my laptop whenever I play music is a pain in the arse. I want to upgrade to something better, seemingly bewildering array of options out there, so help me ILM. Criteria are:

- I have an excellent separates system and really good speakers in my front room, I do want or not need something that comes with its own speakers. - It might be a decent option for other rooms in the future though, so the option to add speakers later would be nice. - Without wanting to be a tossy audiophile about it, sound quality is important, but without having to resort to a two grand Linn streamer. Good enough is good enough. - I don't currently have a server and I don't really want to keep a computer on 24/7. The ability to just plug an external hard drive into the back of it would be ideal. - Ability to stream Spotify in high quality is essential - So is internet radio (primarily BBC) - Ability to control via an Android phone would be nice

I like Sonos pretty well, sounds good, was relatively cheap, mostly works fine. But I don't like my internet connection so much. Mostly it all works fine but occasionally bad internet connection makes me wonder wtf was wrong with a stereo and physical product.

I went with Sonos (after also using Airport/Airplay for years) and am totally in love with it. The only downside to it for my purposes is the expense — the unit you would need for your existing setup is the Sonos Connect, which at $350 seems overpriced to me to attach your amp to the network. But the ease of use and rock solid reliability makes the cost worth it for me.

It ticks every one of your requirements except being able to plug in an external hard drive. If you don’t want to leave your computer on you’ll either need a NAS or do what I did — upload your library to the Google Play Music cloud (the first 50,000 songs are free, which has been plenty for me so far — and now I can also access my library from work or anywhere else, which is pretty neat). I believe it limits your local library to around 65,000 songs.

One thing I really like about it is that everything goes through the Sonos app, so playing music from multiple services is pretty seamless and you have a unified interface. Some people don’t like that aspect of it because certain features might not be ported over from a service’s native app and if the service isn’t supported within the Sonos app you can’t stream it — e.g. no YouTube which bugs a lot of people. But you’d want to be sure that any specific features you like about your current apps are supported.

I believe it's been around the longest and as far as I can tell is the current market leader, so it’s probably the safest bet as far as future-proof.

A much cheaper though much less slick option is the Google Chromecast Audio. You’d still need to upload your library to the cloud, and you’d need to use different apps to play your music — Google Play for your library, Spotify, whatever radio app you use, etc. It’s sort of a low budget cross between Sonos and Airplay.

The limit is 65,000 tracks. There's ways to get around that - installing a Subsonic server is one of them. You can also connect to Sonos speakers via DLNA - I use BubbleUPNP on my Android phone for just such a purpose, connected to my JRMC Media server. Setting up all this stuff isn't all that hard, actually.

I've got one Sonos Play:1 speaker (a gift) and I quite like it, though it's technically mono. The newer, more expensive stereo Play:5 has a line-in port which opens up other possibilities. The primary appeal of Sonos is IT JUST WORKS. You don't have to buy anything other than a speaker or two and use them via their app or another that supports DLNA. And the word on the street is their customer service is second to none.

I've also got a Chromecast Audio and find it a terrific value ($35) and an easy way to connect to regular speakers that have a line-out. You could add one to a Sonos Play:5 for the best of both worlds.

My setup is so hodge-podge that I never bother with playing something in multiple rooms. That's now how my life and house is configured anyway.

Having said all that, there are new Sonos competitors on the market. Samsung has multi-room speakers as does Denon. You can set up multiple Chomecast Audio's and sync them together.

If were starting from scratch I very well might just go with Sonos, in part because I like how they sound, it's dead simple to set up, and their app is quite clever in the way it can easily combine tracks from various sources.

Sonos looks good but is a little pricey for my budget. If I were setting up a new multi-room system on the cheap, using existing stereo systems, I'd probably go with Chromecast Audio. But those would not support Matt DC's requirement of being able to plug in an external hard drive rather than running a server.

Currently I use antique Squeezeboxes and the free Logitech Media Server software, which streams the contents of my iTunes library and (via a plug-in) Spotify. I love being able to synch audio throughout the house. Based on what I've read, I think I could get my server talking to Chromecast Audio devices without too much craziness ... I hope I won't have to test that for a while!

chromecast audio is frustrating in what you can use with it. on a pc, you can only stream browser tabs, not from stuff like itunes or spotify. you can basically only stream from paid mobile apps, etc. it's useful sometimes, but you can only do exactly what google wants you to do with their platform.

xp There are some ways to work around that, both in and outside the browser, but yes, it is frustrating.

In the browser, you could use the Spotify web player and stream that tab. There are some Chrome extensions that can play media files from your computer, and I guess those tabs could be streamed too, as a way to send things from your iTunes library to the Chromecast ... I doubt this would work with DRMed stuff.

So many devices now support streaming that it's hard to keep up with what they can do. The other day I replaced the Blu-Ray player on our home theater system and without my doing anything the new player discovered and connected to my local music server. It has a Spotify app too, so that is an option for streaming music that appeared in my living room more or less by accident.

thanks for this thread, had been meaning to sort this shit out for ages and it made me think about properly - in a similar situation to Matt DC, but a little less worried about quality. On top of that, also need something the family can use - like I love thinking about clever cheap solutions, fiddling with connections, weird off-brand black boxes from tottenham court court road, but everyone else in the house will want something that just works, ie as-if-by-magic players that they can control, rather than me saying "it's quite simple. First, open terminal…"

Always dismissed Sonos before - expensive, a bit too single-company dependent, and multi-room was never a need… but shit it does look easy and clever, so… a Sonos 1 to start, get another down the line if it works & have stereo or second room, and maybe build from there. Get my library into Google Play, and down the line run a sonos connect into my old amp and speakers if it all seems to be working. In the meantime, a chromecast audio for them because it's cheap and interesting and why not.

Yeah both my wife and I have Android phones and will I think continue to for the foreseeable future, so the Chromecast Audio looks a pretty easy solution. Although getting my entire library into the cloud, while probably sensible in the long term, still feels like a massive ballache.

Are there really no options that involve just whacking a hard drive into the back of them? TV streaming boxes have been offering that functionality for years, with the ability to zip files round the network vi wifi.

Quality is an issue for me (this is a really good Linn system that we were amazingly lucky to get second-hand) so any option has to sound good on that kind of setup. Then again streaming any source to the Apple Express sounds good in that setup, and I doubt the Chromecast will be a big step down from that.

NAS + Sonos Connect might be the way to go, happy to pay a bit more for something robust in the longer-term. But that Marantz box in the first response does look tasty.

Really useful thread, thanks! I figured I was unlikely to be the only person wondering about this stuff.

I'm running a Chromecast Audio through optical to Musical Fidelity VDAC II into s Cambridge Audio amp and nice speakers. Even using Spotify it gets pretty close to vinyl and CD, there's still some harshness which I think midrange speakers that aren't so revealing might be better... But all said I spent $35 for the CCA and $150 off eBay for the DAC and it's great

One thing to point out, Chromecast Audio doesn't "stream" from your phone. It has its own broadband WiFi connection. Your phone just "points" the CCA towards what you want to play. That means it's not compressed like Bluetooth streaming and even better you can go to another app like YouTube or take a phone call and it won't affect the music. Even if you turn your phone off it will continue to play until the end of the current album or play list.

I'm sure Chromecast works best with Android devices, but I've had good luck using my iPhone and a regular, video-oriented Chromecast -- no problems using the iPhone to control Spotify or YouTube on the Chromecast.

also need something the family can use . . . everyone else in the house will want something that just works

This might actually be my favorite things about Sonos. My wife had just about given up on listening to music between her frustration with Airplay and the impracticality of CDs/vinyl on our main stereo with two kids under the age of 5 running about pressing any button within reach. Now she has music playing all day long and is rediscovering her love for forgotten bands, the kids are being exposed to so much more music, everyone is asking for more speakers throughout the house . . .

Thanks for the tips in this thread, I've been looking for a streaming device too. I have only one audio set in one room I would need to stream to, so I ended up ordering Chromecast Audio... However, upon looking at Google own streaming app, Google Play, it noticed that it transcodes all the FLAC into MP3s. And I know Plex does the same... Most of the music files on my computer are FLACs, and Chromecast itself supports that format, so are there any good music streaming apps that would stream FLACs to Chromecast without transcoding them?

I agree with ums that chromecast audio is THE best bargain on the market. But for multiroom purposes I think Sonos, HEOS or Bluesound are better (though more expensive) choices, in part because of the dedicated control app.

Sonos Connect is a great way to get started with streaming on your current stereo system, it's probably the most stable and developed system on the market. Heos Link and Bluesound Node 2 are good alternatives, they offer more connectivity (usb, optical input, bluetooth-adapter, subwoofer pre-out, triggers) and improved sound (24 bit support, better built-in DACs, better optical outputs).

If you're looking to replace you current amplifier, you'll need active speakers or streamer-amps. The stand alone speakers (like the Sonos Play 1) are impressive but can be a bit tiresome to listen to for very long - unless you're allergic to passive speakers I'd recommend the Sonos Connect Amp, Heos Amp or Bluesound Powernode 2 with a set of budget passive speakers for your main listening room. Price will be similar to a Play:5 or a stereo pair of Play:3s, sound is going to be a lot better.

No matter what system you choose, I think you'll experience improved functionality with a NAS - so if streaming your own collection of music files is important, I think that's a solid investment.

As a final note, I'll add that your streaming system is never going to function any better than your router - so if you're using the one supplied by your ISP, getting a proper router (~80$) can make all the difference.

i use the NAS/Sonos Connect setup, and its brilliant.not fussed re speakers round the house, just needed to get my digital archive into my stereo, and figured this was the best option for my needs.and yeah, the desktop app is very easy to use, and i love the way you can flip from digital radio, various streaming services (i got 12 months free deezer when i bought the sonos connect), and your local digital library without any trouble whatsoever.

So basically it's an external hard drive that also works as a cloud? The price is pretty steep, but I guess it'd eventually pay itself back since you don't have to pay a monthly/yearly like with net-based cloud services...

One thing that seems a bit worrying, in order for it work you have to keep it and your modem on all the time, right? That seems like a bit of fire hazard, or am I overtly cautious?

yes, to keep your network up and running, then you do need to leave the router on.i dont think this is a fire hazard ! re router+ USB : no idea, i would suspect it is possible, just depends on how the router maps the USB drive.if you can access the USB drive as a standard external network drive, then i see no reason why you cant point Sonos to that location and pick up the digital files.

One thing that seems a bit worrying, in order for it work you have to keep it and your modem on all the time, right? That seems like a bit of fire hazard, or am I overtly cautious?

You're being overly cautious. The equipment is designed to be on 24/7 and to just burst into flames would represent a major design flaw. Virtually every office building in the developed world has a server on constantly, if your concerns were realistic they'd be burning down all the time.

I don't think I've turned a router off except to reboot it in about 15 years.

if you think about it there is also electricity CONSTANTLY running into the house. you can prove this by flipping a light switch on, there is no latency, i.e. the electricity is storing up behind the walls in an active state.

Like even if any of that post made sense, "you can prove this by flipping a light switch on, there is no latency" is cartoon funny - the idea you could see the delay between your fingers flipping a switch and a light turning on if it wasn't "storing up behind the walls".

You're being overly cautious. The equipment is designed to be on 24/7 and to just burst into flames would represent a major design flaw. Virtually every office building in the developed world has a server on constantly, if your concerns were realistic they'd be burning down all the time.

Yeah, I get this, but those servers have inbuilt cooling, unlike my modem, which gets fairly hot if I keep it on for two days in a row. I assume this NAS has its own cooling system, though?

It ticks every one of your requirements except being able to plug in an external hard drive.

this was just a bit of a deal-breaker - i play all my music off an external HD and the speaker seemed to be requiring that i never switch my laptop off? i don't really see how that's remotely desirable.

I have the older version of the Marantz mentioned near the top of the thread.

I went for this because, after selling all my high-end gear in 2012 and going with a basic separates system (10yo Sony DVD player into 30yo Cyrus amp), and then giving those up too, I wanted to start from scratch with something good but simple. The sound quality is great (basically just the Marantz into Q-Acoustics monitors and Sennheiser headphones), but there are a few niggles with it dropping off my network with some regularity - so it can't find Spotify, or my iPhone / tablet app can't find the Marantz. CD playback was essential for me (again, it would be nice here if, seeing as it's a networked device, it could do a Gracenote-style lookup and not just say "11 tracks 55:12" like a dumb CD player), but there is a cheaper model without.

It also has a useless Last.fm mode (support for that was withdrawn before I bought mine), good FM/DAB and NAS/USB/Bluetooth/AirPlay connections (the last of which I use a lot when I can't be bothered navigating Spotify via the clunky Marantz app).

As an amp, it's perfectly fine - I route the TV and MD deck in via S/PDIF, and the turntable pre-amp via analogue. I think that's about all the connections taken up, mind.

I'm looking to reconfigure my home audio system, hopefully in a way that also integrates with my TV. My main music source is Spotify and my main TV platform is Roku. The essential apps for me on Roku are Netflix, Amazon, YouTube, Twitch, and Spotify. Unfortunately, the Roku Spotify app is pretty bad. It doesn't allow you to play from folders, only from individual playlists, and it doesn't support local files, only songs in Spotify's library. I've tried doing screen mirroring from my Android phone to Roku for Spotify, but Roku's screen mirroring is junk, it crashes a lot and pretty much disrupts my wi-fi.

I don't think SONOS is the answer to this, but I'm curious about Chromecast. My main reservations are the lack of Amazon and the concern that casting from my phone to my TV/stereo will cause similar wi-fi issues as the Roku.

I wonder if there are any players that would do the same as what the Marantz does, but also work as an bluray/net video player with an HDMI out and surround sound? I have 5.1 speaker set and I watch movies and play music through the same Yamaha A/V receiver... It feels pretty pointless to have separate systems for music and videos, but most audiophile players/receivers seem to be for audio only.

I have been looking at that Marantz thing for a while actually. If it had phono input I would have bought it already. But I've been in a state of indecision for a while now about whether to get that plus separate phono preamp OR vintage integrated amp plus bluetooth adapter (plus separate CD player I guess).

We got a second-hand Linn Numerik DAC over Christmas and plugged the Sonos Connect into it, and it's improved the sound even on Spotify to an audible degree. Everything just sounds more three-dimensional now.

My old Airport Express used to drop out all the time, it was hugely annoying.

I connected my Airport Expresses to inexpensive powerline adapters via ethernet and it solved all of my dropout issues. I've mostly moved to Sonos but still use a couple of AEs and can't remember the last time I had a dropout. Don't know how well those adapters work in apartments though.

This might be outside the scope of this thread and better suited to computer questions in ILE, but -- I picked up a Chromecast Audio to use at work, not realizing that client isolation would prevent me from using it on the office wifi network. I think I can get around this by using one of those $20 wireless travel routers in bridge mode to create my own wifi network that piggybacks off the office wifi. Will that complicate my life in any ways I'm not anticipating?

It would have to join the network, but no other wireless devices would need to communicate with it on that network, so I think I would be ok. The reason I can't use the Chromecast now is that our office router isolates all of the wireless devices connected to it, so my phone can't communicate with the Chromecast over the network. But with the travel router they'd be communicating through the new wifi network that it creates, so I think I'd be ok. I think if I can set my phone to prioritize my new network over the office one it should work pretty seamlessly, but I wouldn't be surprised if I'm overlooking something.

I hadn't seen that Ethernet Adapter for Chromecast -- will look into that too, though my stereo isn't very close to the available ethernet ports unfortunately. Might be worth running a cable though. Thanks.

I am also not an expert. but when I set my second router to "repeater mode", it creates new wifi network for forwarding to the main router. if I connect to that new network, I believe the main router still only sees the repeater as a client. when I set the second router to "media bridge mode", I am connecting to the LAN of the main router and connecting to the bridge with ethernet. I don't think I am treated as a wireless client in this case? this is at least the convention used by my old asus router.

I have the feeling there is almost an update per day. It's dubious. The user interface has become worse after the last major update from a while ago. I will never understand why software is too stupid to find out my faves, here the radio stations. I have about 3 or 4 but sonos sytematically proposes those i just don't want to listen to. I also lose the wlan connection despite repeater very often.

I'm researching because I want to get a Sonos system, the above's been of great use already. Just one quick (dumb) question: Sonos lists it works with different music streaming services (Spotify, iTunes etc), but will it also stream any sound coming from my mac/pc laptop? Like youtube?

Actually some of the newer Sonos speakers (including the most recent Play:5) support AirPlay 2, so you can indeed stream all audio from your Mac — Sonos specifically mentioned YouTube as a use when they announced it a few months ago. The Play:1 you’re considering for the workroom doesn’t have AirPlay, but if you AirPlay audio to a Play:5 that speaker can send the audio to the Play:1. The slightly more expensive (and somewhat confusingly named) One does have AirPlay.

As for room size, I have a single Play:1 in a room probably about 35 m2 and it’s perfectly fine for casual listening.

It works perfectly for Tidal. When I play a game and run the audio through the line-in there's no problem. But as soon as I try and play a movie through it-- HDMI into audio-splitter, video goes to the projector, RCAs go to the line-ins on the Bridge-- it glitches and hiccups. I got a Boost, even, to see if that'd help, but it continues to stutter. (It's almost as if Sonos can sense when I'm doing something non-profitable with it)

Thank you Early Rejecter, that is kind of the last piece of the puzzle I needed an answer to! (Play:5 Airplay 2 -> the Play:1) And pleased to hear a small Airplay:1 will suffice for a small(er) room. Thanks!

Niels, I won't bring my very best 'Brothers In Arms' mp3's to a store to test the different systems, but thanks ;)

well, if you go to a store you get a good idea of how the speakers sound and you can try out the interface etc, I'd def try before buying

you can also bring some dope ass Knopfler recordings to hear how much better a Sonos Amp with a pair of real speakers will sound at the price of a Play:5, but I realize people are different (I would personally use a play 1 in the bathroom, tops, but I like stereo systems)

how much better a Sonos Amp with a pair of real speakers will sound at the price of a Play:5

That's a good point -- here in the U.S. two Play:5s are $1000; a Connect:Amp is $400. The amp paired with a $600 or less pair of traditional speakers could make a really nice system.

I would personally use a play 1 in the bathroom, tops

I find them perfect for the kitchen and small bedrooms. The big room also has a traditional stereo system that I use if I'm sitting in that room specifically to listen to music, but if I just want something playing while I'm taking care of things around the house the Play:1 is fine for me in there.

I'm not knocking Sonos (I've never used it) but as someone who already has a couple of stereo systems and pairs of powered speakers and not a whole lot of disposable cash, I've been getting excellent results with Chromecast Audios (on sale through February for $15 each) and the free version of Plex.

I find them perfect for the kitchen and small bedrooms. The big room also has a traditional stereo system that I use if I'm sitting in that room specifically to listen to music, but if I just want something playing while I'm taking care of things around the house the Play:1 is fine for me in there.

I'm not knocking Sonos (I've never used it) but as someone who already has a couple of stereo systems and pairs of powered speakers and not a whole lot of disposable cash, I've been getting excellent results with Chromecast Audios (on sale through February for $15 each) and the free version of Plex.

if yr main focus is value for money yup I agree but Sonos is kinda like Apple in that they created a rather idiosyncratic but ultimately user friendly system that (most of the time) "just works" with minimal user interference

I have a Sonos Connect plugged into a big system in the living room, and a Play:1 in the kitchen. I had some issues with the stereo amp earlier this year so I moved the Play:1 into the front room temporarily and it was amazing how much worse it sounded, it just didn't fill the room unless you turned it up really loud. The Play:1 is fine in a small room though but it's never going to be better than a proper system.

I mean it has much better definition and bass than any similarly-sized speaker I'd usually put in the kitchen, so definitely worth it for that alone. Plus being able to have the same music playing as you move from room to room is beyond classic obviously.

sonos is great for adding sound to small rooms that wouldn't otherwise have it. you can make it work for your main listening/watching room but 1. you'll want to pair a sub with either two play:5s or the bar/base/etc. you'll need to use the line-ins on the play:5s for video. bar/base/etc have optical connects to your TV.2. I don't recommend using a connect:amp for matching video/audio as I think you'll get the sort of trouble fgti mentioned. I'd use a connect to add streaming music capability to a separate amped stereo.

if you do #1, you might be spending a bit more than you thought. if you do #2, you'll be switching sources separately on an amp and your phone/tablet, which will make your overall experience a bit worse.

I'm sorry but I don't follow at all, doing #1 is imo throwing money out the window unless you are allergic to non-Sonos speakers

amp works fine with video ime and certainly the line in on a play 5 is no better than on the amp? in fact you'd be less susceptible to sync issues when you don't have to sync 2 play5s but only 1 amp powering 2 passive speakers with 0ms delay

reason I recommend the Sonos Amp + passive speakers (any quality brand) is it's the cheapest, simplest, best sounding solution (unless you want to get fancy with a better quality amp and the Sonos Connect, but that's not really relevant here)

also, just to chip in here despite my setup is not relevant.the desktop/mac app has recently been updated with a clean new interface, but, now has reduced functionality.you can no longer add new speakers via the desktop app, you have to add any new devices via an IOS/Android device.there has been a big kickback in the Sonos community, but so far there are no indications that they will reverse this decision.

doing #1 is not throwing money out the window. it is spending money to get 1.no speaker wires (without putting them in walls) 2. no external amp, and 3. a single interface to all sound sources in your home.

I can understand not wanting to spend money on those things or situations where they'd matter less. speaker wires matter less if you have a media console sort of setup. they matter more if you have a television mounted to the wall.

I am kind of considering replacing my normal receiver with that, since I now run all my video stuff to the TV and then to the receiver. I have two floor standing speakers and a subwoofer, so I'm thinking I could buy that new sonos amp, plug my existing speakers in, and then add two sonos speakers in the back of the room and do 4.1?