I know I'll get heat from some of you for this, but while we give the old man a lot of shit on here, we also need to give the devil his due; Vince McMahon Jr. is, in my opinion, the worst and best thing to ever happen to pro-wrestling.

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VKM played a part in the death of the territories, but I don't hold him responsible for their demise. Business was down, and the territories were already becoming a dying breed by the time Vince came along wanting to purchase the WWWF from his Dad. With the exception of JCP, professional wrestling was headed the way of vaudeville. Had Capitol Wrestling continued on as it was under Vince Sr., then it would probably have followed. NWA held on longer, but even they encountered problems later on in the eighties.

In changing the landscape of the industry, Vince saved wrestling from extinction by turning it into something that could survive with the new times. Sure, it was cheesy, corny, tacky, and insulting to the purist fans, but it's what mainstream wanted. And wrestling, by that point, needed to go mainstream in order to survive as the smaller outfits folded. As horrible as it was to lose the "old guard," the reality is that the percentage of traditional fans like us does not comprise a big enough chunk of the market to support the operation of the billion-dollar business that wrestling had become.

The wreslting business fell prey to the "all-or-nothing" pitfall. We have the coporate giant, WWE, and indy-promotions working gymnasiums and state fairs. TNA is the only entity that falls in the middle, but I consider them closer to indy-level with national TV exposure - and, a few people making big money.

I miss wrestling the way it was, but without a market, the only place we'll ever see it is on Youtube and DVD.

I know I'll get heat from some of you for this, but while we give the old man a lot of shit on here, we also need to give the devil his due; Vince McMahon Jr. is, in my opinion, the worst and best thing to ever happen to pro-wrestling.

Follow:

VKM played a part in the death of the territories, but I don't hold him responsible for their demise. Business was down, and the territories were already becoming a dying breed by the time Vince came along wanting to purchase the WWWF from his Dad. With the exception of JCP, professional wrestling was headed the way of vaudeville. Had Capitol Wrestling continued on as it was under Vince Sr., then it would probably have followed. NWA held on longer, but even they encountered problems later on in the eighties.

In changing the landscape of the industry, Vince saved wrestling from extinction by turning it into something that could survive with the new times. Sure, it was cheesy, corny, tacky, and insulting to the purist fans, but it's what mainstream wanted. And wrestling, by that point, needed to go mainstream in order to survive as the smaller outfits folded. As horrible as it was to lose the "old guard," the reality is that the percentage of traditional fans like us does not comprise a big enough chunk of the market to support the operation of the billion-dollar business that wrestling had become.

The wreslting business fell prey to the "all-or-nothing" pitfall. We have the coporate giant, WWE, and indy-promotions working gymnasiums and state fairs. TNA is the only entity that falls in the middle, but I consider them closer to indy-level with national TV exposure - and, a few people making big money.

I miss wrestling the way it was, but without a market, the only place we'll ever see it is on Youtube and DVD.

You are correct on all points. I would add that when VKM came along he not only crushed the old territory wrestling, which was on its last legs, but what really pisses me off is that he made it virtually impossible to ever make a comeback.

You are correct on all points. I would add that when VKM came along he not only crushed the old territory wrestling, which was on its last legs, but what really pisses me off is that he made it virtually impossible to ever make a comeback.

Yeah, and I think we've mentioned this before: Flair could (and often did) revisit feuds with many nemeses. Hogan, however, was a different story. With the exception of Andre, there was seldom a "part II."

Yeah, and I think we've mentioned this before: Flair could (and often did) revisit feuds with many nemeses. Hogan, however, was a different story. With the exception of Andre, there was seldom a "part II."

I think another key point with the demise of territory wrestling was the cable TV boom. Most on here won't remember it, so I'll be dating myself a bit, but when you only had 3 networks, you only got the regional coverage shows which were really geared towards getting people to come to live shows, which was the real money maker in those days. VKM came along and saw the advertising revenue as a bigger deal and created a shit product that attracted kids and teens, so ad-men loved it for being a target of a key demographic. Then up until the attitude era he continued that trend, which would have most likely led to the end of the wwf without the "era" coming to fruition. ECW also played a huge role by exposing fans to a more "real" product. WCW kicking his ass to the point he HAD to do something drastic certainly helped too.

I think another key point with the demise of territory wrestling was the cable TV boom. Most on here won't remember it, so I'll be dating myself a bit, but when you only had 3 networks, you only got the regional coverage shows which were really geared towards getting people to come to live shows, which was the real money maker in those days. VKM came along and saw the advertising revenue as a bigger deal and created a shit product that attracted kids and teens, so ad-men loved it for being a target of a key demographic. Then up until the attitude era he continued that trend, which would have most likely led to the end of the wwf without the "era" coming to fruition. ECW also played a huge role by exposing fans to a more "real" product. WCW kicking his ass to the point he HAD to do something drastic certainly helped too.

The guy is an asshole, but he isn't dumb.

Good points! A fun bit of trivia is that Ole Anderson actually was the first promoter to air his promotion on cable TV. He beat Vince! Of course, it didn't work out the same, but it's an interesting/amusing fact nonetheless.

Nobody had Vince's vision. Ole and Verne came close, but their plan paled in comparison. Vince did things no one else thought to do, or could be done, and he enjoyed success longer than many people expected him to. By the time his product grew stale, he knew he had to change it to keep things going. According to Foley, Vince once conceded that he wanted to take his show in the direction of the newly-rebranded (now Todd Gordon-less) ECW years before the "Attitude Era" began. The only thing stopping him was the fallout of negative press from the scandals of the early 90's.

So, instead of raunch and sleaze, we were treated to clowns and plumbers. ECW was the only one giving fans an alternative they liked. Had Heyman not been a fiscal fukk-up, ECW may have become number-one with their monopoly since Vince was too afraid to chart that territory yet, and Turner Standards & Practices wouldn't allow WCW to go there, either.Once enough dust had settled, the old man was able to give his audience what they wanted, and attracted more fans in the process.

bruno mars disrespects bruno sammartino in parade magazine this week. when asked about his unusual name bruno mars said he was named after a fat wrestler named bruno sammartino who his father liked becaused he was a fat and chunky baby.

bruno mars disrespects bruno sammartino in parade magazine this week. when asked about his unusual name bruno mars said he was named after a fat wrestler named bruno sammartino who his father liked becaused he was a fat and chunky baby.

Well, he could always lie and say he was named after "Downtown Bruno."

tammy stych aka sunny arrested for the 6 th time since sept. same guy she violated her parole or something like that. what a train wreck.

I met her a handful of times, although we barely spoke - and this was well beyond her "Sunny days."She seemed totally subdued. I don't know if it was depression, drugs, something else, or a combination.

tommy dreamer had a busy week in philly at raw in a 6 man tag hospitalized, thurs at tna for bubba ray's wedding to brooke hogan he got beat on, tonight he's wrestling for the wxw the samoans promotion at the mountanville fire house.

tommy dreamer had a busy week in philly at raw in a 6 man tag hospitalized, thurs at tna for bubba ray's wedding to brooke hogan he got beat on, tonight he's wrestling for the wxw the samoans promotion at the mountanville fire house.

What is his "official" capacity/title in the Fed & TNA, respectively? Do you know?

What is his "official" capacity/title in the Fed & TNA, respectively? Do you know?

don't really know i think he more or less works free lance, when wwe is in the philly area they might call him, he was last under contract with tna since expired. wxw can't believe he was wrestling in the fire hall, that's really a sad venue it appears on local tv . i don't think they ever had 100 people in that place.by the way i was at carson's about a week ago and some kid was in there with his father asking about a ryback figure i guess they aren't out yet. than the father mentioned to carson why don't he get ryback in for a signing. he had literally tons of wrestlers down thru the years. carson said to get ryback now would cost about 20 k for the day and he's have to charge 100 bucks per auto. seemed kind of excessive, considering ric flair is appearing in philly signing for 50 bucks a pop.

Was flipping the channels last night and hit Linda Macs loosers speech. Stephanie and short haired HHH were on the stage. She commented that VKM was shy and didn't wanna be on camera. The best part of it was seeing Shane O'Mac. He was standing right next to Momma Mac while she delivered the speech. He looked really healthy but had a full head of long grey hair. Wish more then anything he would come back home to us and lead the Federation into another Attitude era. [/quote

The Attitude Era is done. And we don't need another one. We've been through the other ones (Hogan/Rock-N-Wrestling Era, New Generation Era, Attitude Era, Ruthless Aggression era). While there's always a straggler here and there, it usually doesn't work out well.

One prime example was attempting to bring back the Ultimate Warrior from the Hogan era, into the New Generation Era.

He needs to be an in-ring trainer. Just don't let him be a promo coach.

Lance Storm recently went down to Florida as a guest trainer and said it was amazing to watch and listen to Ricky with those trainees. Storm said that even HE learned a few things, and I don't think he was joking.

this monday nights raw lowest rating of the year,3,917,000=2.9 rating. apparently 3 hours is too long if your content is mostly talking and little back stage skits[2-3 matches an hour doesn't cut it}. maybe wrestling fans would have been better off if wcw won??? south park's spoof of the wwe is being fulfilled.