I mean it's an Action-Treasure. If it's in play, it's an Action in play for Peddler. It's also a Treasure in play for Bank.

I dont see why it should have different effects if played differently.. 'Played as an Action' or 'Played as a Treasure' doesn't make sense to me. Though, could behave differently whether it's your Action or Buy phase, that's fine. But either way, you played both am Action and Treasure, either during your Action phase or during your buy phase. Counts for all the things it counts for.

If you play it during your Action phase and it, say, doesn't give money, what's the problem? Still a Treasure played. HoP doesn't give money.

Of course, I'm just speculating. I just don't see an issue with that behavior.

The parts of your post that I emphasized are what make the most sense to me. If you play it during your action phase you get the action benefit and the treasure benefit. If you chose not to use it during your action phase, but only in your buy phase, then you only get the treasure benefit. Either way the card would always be both an action and a treasure for the purposes of things like Peddler and Bank. So the result of playing it may change depending on when it is played, but its type never changes.

I don't see a huge benefit to behave differently on different phases. There's nothing wrong with the version Seprix proposed. You play it, draw 2 cards, continue with your buy phase as normal. You're already used to playing and resolving one Treasure at a time. Even if it gives +Actions, that makes a difference for, e.g., Diadem.

What if you don't want to draw? Now you have an action/treasure card in your hand that can be used as neither.

EDIT: Obviously, if the action doesn't involve draw, this isn't an issue.

No kidding. And gaining respect like he's the creator of Dominion or something.

Well I strongly suspect that most of the guests were Redditors since this was posted to /r/dominion. And then somebody made a highly upvoted post on the thread that was just a copy-paste of the DXV so you didn't have to click through to f.ds. Not sure what yo conclude there.

No kidding. And gaining respect like he's the creator of Dominion or something.

Well I strongly suspect that most of the guests were Redditors since this was posted to /r/dominion. And then somebody made a highly upvoted post on the thread that was just a copy-paste of the DXV so you didn't have to click through to f.ds. Not sure what yo conclude there.

Adam and WW's cult followers, no doubt. This site is the real OG, and they are all heretics.

No kidding. And gaining respect like he's the creator of Dominion or something.

Well I strongly suspect that most of the guests were Redditors since this was posted to /r/dominion. And then somebody made a highly upvoted post on the thread that was just a copy-paste of the DXV so you didn't have to click through to f.ds. Not sure what yo conclude there.

Adam and WW's cult followers, no doubt. This site is the real OG, and they are all heretics.

I'm actually none of those things, good or bad. If someone accesses Reddit on a phone app (like I do most of the time), following a link to a forum which wasn't designed/optimized for mobile viewing can be slow and difficult to read. I was just being considerate. Also, I did quote what I copy-pasted so it was clear that it wasn't my content. I guess I could have given it a heading like "from forum.dominionstrategy.com" or something.

Well I strongly suspect that most of the guests were Redditors since this was posted to /r/dominion. And then somebody made a highly upvoted post on the thread that was just a copy-paste of the DXV so you didn't have to click through to f.ds. Not sure what yo conclude there.

Adam and WW's cult followers, no doubt. This site is the real OG, and they are all heretics.

I'm actually none of those things, good or bad. If someone accesses Reddit on a phone app (like I do most of the time), following a link to a forum which wasn't designed/optimized for mobile viewing can be slow and difficult to read. I was just being considerate. Also, I did quote what I copy-pasted so it was clear that it wasn't my content. I guess I could have given it a heading like "from forum.dominionstrategy.com" or something.

And then people upvoted it because they like having someone save them effort!

I feel like an Action-Treasure, to be interesting, probably needs to care either about card types (# of Actions in play, # of Treasures in hand, etc) or about when it's played, or both. Otherwise, why not just make it an Action card that does something during your Buy phase? So I predict that it will do something Tribute-like, and possibly have different effects depending on when it's played.

I feel like an Action-Treasure, to be interesting, probably needs to care either about card types (# of Actions in play, # of Treasures in hand, etc) or about when it's played, or both. Otherwise, why not just make it an Action card that does something during your Buy phase? So I predict that it will do something Tribute-like, and possibly have different effects depending on when it's played.

What do you mean by "an Action card that does something during your Buy phase"? It'll depend on the implementation, but I expect that the benefit of being a Treasure is that you can still play it in the Buy phase so the card can't be drawn dead, and the benefit of being an Action is that you can play it in the Action phase. I agree that it should do something where that distinction of when it's played matters, but I don't think it needs to have different effects depending on that. Maybe something as simple as:

(It could say +$2 instead, but having the big $2 in a coin is more aesthetically interesting.)

You get the same effect either way. You can't draw it dead since you can always play it in the Buy phase, but doing so may draw other cards dead since you can no longer play actions. It's also a conspicuously absent set of vanilla bonuses. For reference, here's a Secret Histories tidbit about that:

Quote

"Highway:" This was "+2 Cards +$2," for $5. It was a solid card that I eventually decided not to do. It seemed strong and it's too easy to compare to other things. It had no special charm.

Making it an Action-Treasure could be the twist that makes it harder to compare to other things and lend it the special charm it needs.

Adam and WW's cult followers, no doubt. This site is the real OG, and they are all heretics.

I'm actually none of those things, good or bad. If someone accesses Reddit on a phone app (like I do most of the time), following a link to a forum which wasn't designed/optimized for mobile viewing can be slow and difficult to read. I was just being considerate. Also, I did quote what I copy-pasted so it was clear that it wasn't my content. I guess I could have given it a heading like "from forum.dominionstrategy.com" or something.

I guess I should have been even more over the top. Freaking Poe's Law.

I feel like an Action-Treasure, to be interesting, probably needs to care either about card types (# of Actions in play, # of Treasures in hand, etc) or about when it's played, or both. Otherwise, why not just make it an Action card that does something during your Buy phase? So I predict that it will do something Tribute-like, and possibly have different effects depending on when it's played.

You can't Venture into an Action card.

I think it's pretty cool to have it be both an Action or Treasure so you can Golem into it or Venture into it.And you can never draw it dead, that's pretty cool.

Even considering Landmarks (however they work) and Events, as well as the piles with two different cards, that's a lot of art.

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- 60 VP symbols.

Again, that's a lot. I have no idea. Maybe Landmarks will have multiple VP symbols on them?

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- 16 red hexagons.

The fact that these only come in red indicate that there isn't any player ownership attached to them (unless they work like VP tokens). My guess is that you put them on top of supply piles and they affect all players equally once placed.

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- 10 uses of "Setup."

I predict Landmarks.

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- 2 Duration cards.

Only two? I predict two more cards like Hireling.

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- 2 ways to trash cards from the Supply.

Trashing from any old supply pile doesn't seem very fun. My guess is that there are actions that can trash additional copies of themselves from the supply for a greater effect. E.g. a terminal Silver that gives +$3 instead if you trash another copy from the supply.

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- An Action-Treasure card.

I saw someone suggest that this card might trash itself when played in a particular mode, so that it's easier to tell what mode you play it in. Something like a 5-cost +3 cards that you can play as a 1-shot Gold in your buy phase perhaps? That's a simple BM card.

Coins are the obvious thing to bid with, but the turn-based nature of the game makes this unbalanced in favor of the active player. I could see an auction happening during setup. Perhaps there is an 11th Kingdom card and you bid to get exclusive use of it. The loser gets some VP tokens. Kind of like the classic bidding games e.g. Contract Bridge. You have favorable play conditions, but have to score X more points than the opponent.Or maybe you bid using your trusty red hexagons.

Well I strongly suspect that most of the guests were Redditors since this was posted to /r/dominion. And then somebody made a highly upvoted post on the thread that was just a copy-paste of the DXV so you didn't have to click through to f.ds. Not sure what yo conclude there.

Adam and WW's cult followers, no doubt. This site is the real OG, and they are all heretics.

I'm actually none of those things, good or bad. If someone accesses Reddit on a phone app (like I do most of the time), following a link to a forum which wasn't designed/optimized for mobile viewing can be slow and difficult to read. I was just being considerate. Also, I did quote what I copy-pasted so it was clear that it wasn't my content. I guess I could have given it a heading like "from forum.dominionstrategy.com" or something.

And then people upvoted it because they like having someone save them effort!

Even considering Landmarks (however they work) and Events, as well as the piles with two different cards, that's a lot of art.

Well if the Dual-Piles have a unique randomizer a la knights then that's 3 pieces of art per Dual-Pile. So minus 3 for 20 landmarks and 10 events, that's 46. So with anywhere from 1-5 Dual Piles we still have just enough leftover art.

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- 60 VP symbols.

Again, that's a lot. I have no idea. Maybe Landmarks will have multiple VP symbols on them?

That's what I figured. There will probably be a lot that mention VP twice. I predict a card that has 5 VP symbols on it.

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- 16 red hexagons.

The fact that these only come in red indicate that there isn't any player ownership attached to them (unless they work like VP tokens). My guess is that you put them on top of supply piles and they affect all players equally once placed.

I had an idea that the hexagons are icons on a card, which refer to a curse/debt token.

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- 10 uses of "Setup."

I predict Landmarks.

Sounds about right, but I'm still hoping for something a la baker.

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- 2 Duration cards.

Only two? I predict two more cards like Hireling.

Nah, otherwise they would have been in adventures. Probably they are outtakes from when adventures was a treasure chest, and were moved here once adventures dropped VP tokens and the rest.

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- 2 ways to trash cards from the Supply.

Trashing from any old supply pile doesn't seem very fun. My guess is that there are actions that can trash additional copies of themselves from the supply for a greater effect. E.g. a terminal Silver that gives +$3 instead if you trash another copy from the supply.

Quote

Quote

- An Action-Treasure card.

I saw someone suggest that this card might trash itself when played in a particular mode, so that it's easier to tell what mode you play it in. Something like a 5-cost +3 cards that you can play as a 1-shot Gold in your buy phase perhaps? That's a simple BM card.

It might move as an treasure, rather than trashing itself. e.g. "+2 coins, put this on top of your deck."

I agree with your event prediction, but it would make sense to throw in another buy.

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- A way to bid.

Coins are the obvious thing to bid with, but the turn-based nature of the game makes this unbalanced in favor of the active player. I could see an auction happening during setup. Perhaps there is an 11th Kingdom card and you bid to get exclusive use of it. The loser gets some VP tokens. Kind of like the classic bidding games e.g. Contract Bridge. You have favorable play conditions, but have to score X more points than the opponent.Or maybe you bid using your trusty red hexagons.[/quote]"Can we stop talking about the hexagons? Do people really care about the hexagons? I mean, people are always joining up 3 points, how often do they join up eight?"

(Bonus points if you know where that quote is from) I think bidding will be done with VP, with curse tokens if you bid over. Or you could bid with debt tokens that are worth -VP if they aren't paid off. Here's a theory:

The red hexagon symbol is a symbol on cards referring to taking debt tokens. Each card with a red hexagon has "Setup: add repay to the supply" Repay is an event that reads: $2, return one of your debt tokens. If you did, +1 buy. Each debt token is worth -2 VP at the end of the game. Certain piles will allow you to get them cheaper. "When you buy this, you may take up to X debt tokens, +$1 per token taken." Bidding is done buy bidding coin amounts. Then you must play any number of treasures from your hand and pay all your $. Take debt tokens for +$1 until you have reached your bid.

Even considering Landmarks (however they work) and Events, as well as the piles with two different cards, that's a lot of art.

Well if the Dual-Piles have a unique randomizer a la knights then that's 3 pieces of art per Dual-Pile. So minus 3 for 20 landmarks and 10 events, that's 46. So with anywhere from 1-5 Dual Piles we still have just enough leftover art.

For that much art, I'm thinking like 8-10 dual piles, and why not? If it's a theme that hasn't really been done before, there's a lot you could do with it.

The fact that these only come in red indicate that there isn't any player ownership attached to them (unless they work like VP tokens). My guess is that you put them on top of supply piles and they affect all players equally once placed.

I had an idea that the hexagons are icons on a card, which refer to a curse/debt token.

The thing about regular hexagons is that they fit together (think Catan board), so I like the idea that they're tokens that can be fit together. That doesn't exclude them from being symbols on cards too though.

A bit more to chew on: It has 300 cards and 96 metal tokens. There are cards you can buy now and pay for later, piles with two different cards, and Landmarks which add new ways to score. VP tokens and Events return from previous sets.

Jay

Buying now and paying for later seems like a place for bidding to come in--maybe bid for when you will pay with a penalty if the game ends before you can do so.