theyarecomingforyou wrote on Sep 3, 2011, 21:29:You pay less tax and get less as a result, though Greece has separate issues - that largely relates to a grossly oversized public sector, combined with an incredibly low retirement age.

What the hell are you talking about? The taxation rate in greece between the vat and income tax is around 58%, but only 24% pay. In Canada it's around 54% and 70% pay. You know I'd really like to have more money in my pocket at the end of the day, but even though this year I'll make the "median" household income of $54k because I took a voluntary 3yr paycut of $32k, I'm still paying nearly 30% of that in income tax.

Pay less my ass.

--"For every human problem, there is a neat, simple solution; and it is always wrong." --H.L. Mencken

Dades wrote on Sep 4, 2011, 11:30:The publishers wouldn't deal with Steam until it had DRM in the first place. How often do you see DRM free copies of modern titles on other storefronts? Almost never.

Indeed. But what I'd like to see is Valve drop the online check when launching games, as that often takes over 5 seconds and does virtually nothing to deter piracy. I'd also like to see them offer game "versions", whereby you can roll back to a previous patch or the base game for if you have issues - their forced update policy can be annoying, particularly for those with problems with the connection speed or wanting to delay an update (sometimes I have to wait 30m for a game to download an update on launch when auto-updates go wrong).

What I'd like to see is Origin being PRO consumer, offering a better service than Valve. For instance, they could drop DRM altogether. They could give you extras. They could let you download a game AND as an optional pay-for-extra mail you out discs / artwork / manuals. They could offer cheaper prices. In order for Steam to change it needs healthy competition and Origin just isn't it.

PS - Does anyone know how Green Man Gaming works? It offers many titles on Steam but for less than the store price. For instance, FEAR 3 is £5 cheaper than on Steam but still uses Steam.

noman wrote on Sep 4, 2011, 02:25:I hope Steam will eventually end up as just a digital download store (like Amazon, Impulse, Direct2Drive or Origin) rather than a DRM mechanism coupled with the storefront.

It's great that EA is not bowing to Steam's rules, and it's even better that BF3 and ME3 will be available at all other retail and digital download places.

I agree, but publishers are incredibly sensitive about DRM. Despite the precedent set by Oblivion many big games are featuring ever more draconian restrictions. And prices still vary greatly from region to region. What I'd like to see is Valve and other stores force publishers to drop that crap and that is going to take a while. I still believe that Valve will drop all DRM - including their own - if publishers will allow it and if the market demands it... though I'm not expecting that to happen in the next 3-4yrs.

eunichron wrote on Sep 3, 2011, 14:17:The SW:TOR pre-order thing; yes they charge you $5 to pre-order, but the price of the game when you pre-order $54.99, making the total price for a pre-order $59.99... the same price it will be at retail launch. Are you guys even trying anymore?

That is exactly the same pre-order model that gamestop and almost every sales model follows...you pay $5 for a small cardboard box, some advertising, and perhaps a bonus item or something...then when the game is released you pay $5 less than the full price. Nothing new there.

eRe4s3r wrote on Sep 3, 2011, 14:06:I pay 30$ more on Steam if i pre-order... think about that

If Origin has no proxy-defense....

What? $30 more than where? And, for what? Every game that I have bought I have compared the retail store such as Fry's or Gamestop vs the Steam Store and the prices on Steam have always been the same or less.

Steam is absolutely free and does not advertise or sell your personal information. I've used Steam ever since it started and not one game company has ever contacted me with a bulk mailer or anything that would lead me to believe my information had been sold. And, I've never paid anything to use Steam while they continue to provide updates and patches for every game that they support.

Thanks for providing this opportunity to see Steam as a value added product.

theyarecomingforyou wrote on Sep 4, 2011, 01:08:Yeah. Hopefully EA's move will cost it a lot of sales and they'll come running back to Steam, though EA is pretty stubborn.

I hope Steam will eventually end up as just a digital download store (like Amazon, Impulse, Direct2Drive or Origin) rather than a DRM mechanism coupled with the storefront.

It's great that EA is not bowing to Steam's rules, and it's even better that BF3 and ME3 will be available at all other retail and digital download places.

As far as this news story is concerned, EA distributed the retail version of recent Valve games. Origin is not just a digital download store. It sells retail versions as well (even those that have no DRMs other than disk check). Retail version of games like Portal2 and Left4Dead2 have always been there on Origin (similar to how they are available at Frys, Amazon or Walmart)

You can't buy the download version of Valve developed games anywhere except Steam.

KilrathiAce wrote on Sep 4, 2011, 00:47:The only twist of any interest to me would be if EA games such as bf3 or crysis 2 were actually sold on steam again, cause looks like ME3 will not be and so are my chances of buying them...

Yeah. Hopefully EA's move will cost it a lot of sales and they'll come running back to Steam, though EA is pretty stubborn.

So your solution to the debt crysis is the let the unemployed and otherwise unfortunate (war veterans, pensioners?) starve to death? Or have you never heard of the fact that when people look for jobs they might not actually find any? Particularly in this economy?

PHJF wrote on Sep 3, 2011, 19:11:Except here's your problem... sales taxes are collected by and for states, not the federal government.

Except they're not collected.

Eh? They are collected. My brother runs a small business, and every quarter he has to fill out a tax form, and pay the state his sales tax revenues to the state, and receive a statement from the IRS. It's on the business to make sure that they are paying, and paying the correct amount. Of course, my brother runs his business honestly and doesn't try to cheat the system... the problem is the companies and their legions of lawyers that make their living off of finding loopholes and exemptions within the ridiculously complex and bloated tax code. Close the loopholes, get rid of the exemptions, and we'd be half way to getting things fixed.

entr0py wrote on Sep 3, 2011, 16:32:Basically, if a company does not have offices in a particular state, they are not required to charge sales tax on sales made to that state. Valve has physical offices in Washington, so Washington residents are the only ones who have to pay sales tax for ordering through Steam. EA has offices all over the damn place, so in many states you'll be charged sales tax.

The US government is in massive debt - like most developed nations - and yet they haven't even considered fixing the tax system so that people... you know, actually pay tax? Surely with internet shopping the way that it is it would make sense to have a unified tax level for all states? I remember reading a few things about Amazon cutting out affiliates to avoid tax and I was amazed that the government had done nothing to address it.

Kinda hard to collect taxes when you have so many living off the government tit to begin with. You can thank liberals like good ol Obama for that. Why take responsibility and make a life for your self when liberal politicians would rather buy your vote with more free money and handouts?

Mashiki Amiketo wrote on Sep 3, 2011, 20:31:Look at countries where both the state/province plus federal government collects taxes. I pay only a "mere" 13% sales tax(federal and provincial) here. Or look at greece, their VAT is now pushing upwards of 35%.

You pay less tax and get less as a result, though Greece has separate issues - that largely relates to a grossly oversized public sector, combined with an incredibly low retirement age. If you look at the Nordic countries, they have even higher tax and yet have better quality of life, better healthcare / childcare facilities and a more independent press / media.

It depends what you want but it's a mistake to assume that lower taxes must be better for you. For instance, one reason for the lower tax in the US is that healthcare isn't provided by the state - that's an additional cost that has to be paid by the individual, and it also means that those less well off are left with very little. The question is how much does the state owe to look after its citizens? There's certainly a good argument for maintaining a low tax level and allowing the individual to decide their priorities but I don't find the US system to have the right balance; nor do I find our high tax to be right, especially with our excessive welfare state.

Greese has a large black market/cash economy (untaxed) which is a big part of thier problem.

In NZ, our GST (goods and services tax, like VAT) has gone up 2.5% as well, yet the goverment dropped the top income tax rate. (anyone with alot of money has accountants who cliam back thier GST - therefore it only effects those on low/middle wages. I know cos I'm self employed, well paid, and have an accountant and have been told I should buy a new car just to not have to pay any GST this year, or the next few. You can also then claim back intrest on your morgae and house hold cost due to the car living in the garage. All this despite the companies that contract me supplying me with rental cars and air travel)

It's a con by the rich to get richer at the cost of the poor.

Anit' gonna buy that new car untill I need one, not now just to pay less tax.