Raazi actor Ashwath Bhatt: Despite the exodus, my relations with the people in Kashmir are unchanged

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Raazi actor Ashwath Bhatt: Despite the exodus, my relations with the people in Kashmir are unchanged

Long before Raazi’s ‘humanising the enemy’ narrative was accepted by the audience, one of its actors, Ashwath Bhatt, who left Kashmir in the exodus of 1990, had learnt that understanding the other side is far bigger for your own growth than hating it. He tells us how doing theatre and working with students from conflict zones like Syria and Palestine has put his own community’s suffering in perspective, and why when he visits Kashmir today, he talks of inclusiveness and not conflict.
You belong to Kashmir. How different is the Kashmir of the 1970s, what we see in Raazi, from how things are today?

I just came from the Valley recently. Ten days, I was in the Valley for an event which was to bring communities together. I have been very vocal and I told people – main Kashmir mein bolta hoon, Delhi mein bhi bolta hoon, aur London mein bhi; I don’t change my tone.

Ashwath plays a Pakistani Major in 'Raazi

Unlike the Valley’s politicians...

Yes, they come to Delhi and say one thing and go back to Kashmir and say something else. They say one thing in Kulgam and one thing in Pattan and one thing in Baramulla. I said to people there that two things concern me a lot as far as Kashmir goes. First, if there has to be reconciliation, there has to be truth. And truth of both sides, not one way. Har cheez ke do pehloo hote hain jeevan mein. Yeh shayad mujhe theatre ne sikhaya hai ki har character black and white nahi hai. Grey bhi hai life mein kuch. So, I talk a lot about it – truth and reconciliation. The second thing I said is, what am I giving to my next generation? One generation is already gone. Chhote-chhote bachchon ki buses par pathar maar rahe hain log. Kaun sensible, samajhdar aadmi bachchon ki bus par pathar maarega? Mujhe yeh bahut hurt karta hai. Koi bhi mazhab ka ho, bachcha hai, usko main pathar maar raha hoon. It makes me uncomfortable and destroys me mentally. Toh yeh maine Kashmir mein kaha, ki yeh do cheezein soch lena aap, jo kar rahe hain hum log. Yes, I want to be in my hometown, I want people to come, whosoever wants to go and whosoever wants to live wherever. But the second thing is, what are you giving to the next generation? Main Kashmir 2006 se jaa raha hoon. Main England se aaya and then I have been regularly going for research; I wrote a film, ‘Lamhaa’, and at different points, I had different encounters. Main Hizb ke militant se le kar ek chhote se ex-militant tak sabse mila hoon. I am making a documentary as well. It’s called ‘The Other Half Of Paradise’.

You were slammed for ‘Lamhaa’s’ writing, but not for playing a Pakistani officer who is normal, relatable?

No, now I think the audience has grown. Maturity aayi hai. Ab unko lagta hai acting kar raha hai yeh. When Anupam Kher can play a character that is almost Geelani, what’s wrong with me playing a Pakistani Major?
I did ‘Phantom’ also with Kabir Khan. I asked him in the first meeting, what is your vision. He said look Ashwath, everybody is doing their job. RAW is doing its job and ISI is doing its job and I want to show ki uss job ke dauran yeh kahaani chalti hai – the killing of Hafiz Saeed – joh movie mein dikhaate hain. Maine kaha khwaab achha hai. Film mein hi poora kar lijiye. Lekin jab woh film aayi, kya hua usme? They (ISI) create havoc in half of the subcontinent and we treat them like idiots. In films, we show that they don’t have brains. They’re not idiots.

Ashwath in Kashmir during 'Haider’s' shoot

You’re suggesting we tend to create this artificial structure of a mindless, random entity on the other side – just the thing Meghna is not doing in ‘Raazi’, right?

Yes, because we make everyone we don’t like a demon. It doesn’t work like that. Everybody is human. We also have skeletons in our cupboard. If you look at films, jab Kargil hua toh suddenly you had patriotic films, with ‘Doodh maangoge toh kheer denge, Kashmir maangoge toh cheer denge’, because that catered to people. ‘Gadar’ hua toh hand pump nikaal kar Pakistan ko aapne hila diya. It doesn’t happen like that.

I’ve researched a lot for’ Raazi’. I saw Pakistani Army videos because koi reference hai hi nahi uske alawa. Fortunately, I must be the only actor – or a rare actor – who had dinner in a Pakistani cantt. I was a guest of DG Lahore Shabbir Ahmad sahab (Director General of Parks and Horticulture Authority, Lahore, between 2003 and 2006) in 2004. I was working with a German (theatre) company at that time and we were supposed to tour South Asia. Uski recce ke liye main aaya tha. My passport says I’m not supposed to go there but I’m sitting there with Shabbir Ahmad sahab. Shayad kismat mein tha ki ek din Pakistan Army ka Major play karoonga.
Also, the way Meghna has dealt with ‘Raazi’, it’s very human. Sehmat went as a spy but she didn’t intend to harm anyone. She intends to get things done for her own watan. She is told ki ek din tumhe zaroorat pad jaaye aur kisi ko maarna pade... But then, what is driving her is that it’s all for the nation. By the end, she is totally heartbroken; she is gone, only alive physically.So, it’s not the story of India-Pakistan but of a human being, the lowest denominator.

You’re not edgy when talking about Kashmir, despite being uprooted at the age of 15. Has it been this way from that point of time itself?

I have mellowed down. I still have huge anger because my only question was what is my fault that my mother cries 24 hours a day? Neend mein bhi aansoo nikal rahe hote thay. What’s her fault? She has not hurt anybody, harmed anyone. But I’m not angry. I’m not saying sympathise with anybody. Lekin ek cheez hai empathy, jo bahut zaroori hai life mein. That can be for anyone.

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Refrain from posting comments that are obscene, defamatory or inflammatory, and do not indulge in personal attacks, name calling or inciting hatred against any community. Help us delete comments that do not follow these guidelines by marking them offensive. Let's work together to keep the conversation civil.