Uncle Si wrote:$14 million for Sahin? seems, well..... thats a very un-Arsenal like offer. I've been reading that Wenger is not sold on the deal... if that's the deal I can see why. They just did solid business in off-loading a 29 year old, oft-injured striker and would now be willing to throw 14 million and an even more oft-injured mid fielder?Something's off there. I see Sahin going (and doing above average) but not at that deal....

Its taken me some time to step in here after the debacle on Saturday. Christ on a bike, just find the freaking net and we're sitting at three points.. instead its Liverpool-as-usual and already the fingers are out of the ears and resting firmly on the panic button.

Its only game 1, but obviously some concerns are apparent for a few teams, including Liverpool, United (Everton looked good to net 3-4), Spurs depth and Arsenal's wastefulness near goal. Interesting reading Gate, I'm not sure we watched the same game. All true it was the first game, but the defending will get better as well. Carzola looked the part. Podolski looked average. Giraud.... well this isnt Ligue 1. He will need to step up (with Posolski). Is the Song deal complete? seems a massive loss... is it?

Liverpool needs another striker-winger to add... and quickly. It cant wait until January. The Dempsey deal may come around again, but seeing that Carroll has no place in the squad they will need to more than just Dempsey (or Adam Johnson, Walcott, etal).

There seems to be some steam gathering on Kaka coming as well.... i have nothing to add to that (except if it was sstill 2009 we would have Alonso)...

and the holders this weekend.... getting late early

Yep. Christ on a bike.

Football is not a matter of life and death. It's much more important than that. ~ Bill Shankley

Okay, maybe it wasn't so much as Sunderland played great defense as it was Arsenal just didn't spread the play in the final 3rd. But still Arsenal found very little room for error when it got towards the goal, that can be chalked up to good defense by Sunderland.

About the Sahin situation, if this was last year, yeah it would be un-Arsenal like. This year Arsenal has spent 11 mil on Podolski, 13 mil on Giroud and 16.5 mil(still reportedly) on Cazorla. They've been cranking out the cash this past offseason, but haven't broken the bank to do so. My only surprise is that the 14 million pound buyout isn't more.

The Song move is a big loss. But it would be worse if Arsenal hadn't gotten Cazorla before hand. Song was a catalyst in a lot of Arsenal's goals last year, and in the Sunderland game last Saturday, Cazorla was a serious player, a ton of Arsenal's movements began with him, to the point that Martin O'Neal put a player specifically on him.

I guess this has really little to do with Sahin in specific (who by the way is now headed to Liverpool according to Madrid's major newspaper... have to love the media. Gate please dont tell me its wrong. i'm well aware of the ridiculousness of the saga).

Gate seems surprised that the buyout clause for Sahin is only 14 million. This for a player who was bought for 12 and hasnt yet played for Real due to major injury. And yet his value goes up? (this to me is the major catch in the Arsenal deal, and why it hasnt gone through. I still see him a Gunner in near time)

(preface: I'm a Liverpool fan still trying to cope with dumping 72 million on three players we rarely use)

The reason I find the Sahin saga so interesting is the sudden strength of position Real (and Barca) seem to have over the EPL teams.

In the end Sahin is a good player and I'd love him at Liverpool, but the speculation over one player sitting on RM's bench is astonishing

I think the disparity between the fees is even bigger, Si. I think Madrid signed Sahin for around £8mil. I blame the fact that the fee has gone up so much, despite the negative factors that you mention, on Chelsea, Man City and Liverpool for paying well over the odds for players. Other clubs must think British clubs are muppets. We have a problem at Spurs at the moment which is that Madrid know that Modric wants to join and as such Spurs are in a weak position. The fee that Madrid are supposedly willing to pay for Modric is roughly 75% of the cost of the (inferior) players that we've been pursuing. To use Moutinho as an example, Porto apparently won't let him go for less than £35mil, while Madrid are willing to up to £27m for Modric. We saw at the Euros that Modric is a better player. There have been other similar examples too. I don't blame Porto and these other clubs for naming a high price for their player, but when Modric signed an extension 15 months ago it was because Spurs wanted to be able to get market value for him.

In short, Madrid and Barca know that they don't need to convince players to join, and largely because of the extravagant spending of the 3 clubs mentioned above, foreign clubs now look at English buyers and add 50% to their asking price, kind of like if you accidentally mention that the catering or flowers are for a wedding.

Uncle Si wrote:I guess this has really little to do with Sahin in specific (who by the way is now headed to Liverpool according to Madrid's major newspaper... have to love the media. Gate please dont tell me its wrong. i'm well aware of the ridiculousness of the saga).

I'm not gonna call you a liar cause I saw it in the Daily Mail website, which ironically said the deal was done 2 days ago. The funny thing is, other news sites are still claiming his move to Arsenal is almost complete or is done, while Sky Sports Germany had on it's ticker a line that stated, and this is the translation I got: Information exchanged Nuri Sahin on loan to Arsenal.

Uncle Si wrote:I guess this has really little to do with Sahin in specific (who by the way is now headed to Liverpool according to Madrid's major newspaper... have to love the media. Gate please dont tell me its wrong. i'm well aware of the ridiculousness of the saga).

I'm not gonna call you a liar cause I saw it in the Daily Mail website, which ironically said the deal was done 2 days ago. The funny thing is, other news sites are still claiming his move to Arsenal is almost complete or is done, while Sky Sports Germany had on it's ticker a line that stated, and this is the translation I got: Information exchanged Nuri Sahin on loan to Arsenal.

Uncle Si wrote:I guess this has really little to do with Sahin in specific (who by the way is now headed to Liverpool according to Madrid's major newspaper... have to love the media. Gate please dont tell me its wrong. i'm well aware of the ridiculousness of the saga).

I'm not gonna call you a liar cause I saw it in the Daily Mail website, which ironically said the deal was done 2 days ago. The funny thing is, other news sites are still claiming his move to Arsenal is almost complete or is done, while Sky Sports Germany had on it's ticker a line that stated, and this is the translation I got: Information exchanged Nuri Sahin on loan to Arsenal.

all depends on where you look

Just read an article linked on thisisanfield.com that says Liverpool officials met with Sahin's agent today. Read into that what you will. I honestly don't want him anymore. Or Dempsey. Give me Gaston ramirez. We've too many in CM right now as it is. We need someone who can play in behind Suarez/Borini and we need another winger, but I'd like to see Sterling step into that role.

Football is not a matter of life and death. It's much more important than that. ~ Bill Shankley

peachesenregalia wrote:Just read an article linked on thisisanfield.com that says Liverpool officials met with Sahin's agent today. Read into that what you will. I honestly don't want him anymore. Or Dempsey. Give me Gaston ramirez. We've too many in CM right now as it is. We need someone who can play in behind Suarez/Borini and we need another winger, but I'd like to see Sterling step into that role.

According to the Daily Mail Rafael Van Der Vaart is on the verge of returning to his former club Hamburger SV. Not sure about how Spurs fans will feel if he does leave, but it's gotta be a massive loss, right up there with Modric.

peachesenregalia wrote:Just read an article linked on thisisanfield.com that says Liverpool officials met with Sahin's agent today. Read into that what you will. I honestly don't want him anymore. Or Dempsey. Give me Gaston ramirez. We've too many in CM right now as it is. We need someone who can play in behind Suarez/Borini and we need another winger, but I'd like to see Sterling step into that role.

Liverpool needs someone who can score period.

We've scored as many as Arsenal and Man ure have this season...

Football is not a matter of life and death. It's much more important than that. ~ Bill Shankley

Gatehawk wrote:According to the Daily Mail Rafael Van Der Vaart is on the verge of returning to his former club Hamburger SV. Not sure about how Spurs fans will feel if he does leave, but it's gotta be a massive loss, right up there with Modric.

Despite the fact it's in the Daily Mail I could see this happening. Only if we are very confident of signing Wilian though, I would have thought. While I'm sure he'd be happy to stay I think van Der Vaart would love to go back to Hamburg. His wife works there so she'd surely be keen too. He's a classy player and I'd miss watching him, but if we can sign someone a bit quicker and younger to rotate with Sigurdsson I'd not lose too much sleep over it. It looks like Sigurdsson is 1st choice in his position now anyway and he doesn't seem the type to sit happily on the bench.

peachesenregalia wrote:Just read an article linked on thisisanfield.com that says Liverpool officials met with Sahin's agent today. Read into that what you will. I honestly don't want him anymore. Or Dempsey. Give me Gaston ramirez. We've too many in CM right now as it is. We need someone who can play in behind Suarez/Borini and we need another winger, but I'd like to see Sterling step into that role.

Liverpool needs someone who can score period.

We've scored as many as Arsenal and Man ure have this season...

Who was closer to scoring in their games? Arsenal should have scored 6 times in the Sunderland, and I've still yet to figure out what went wrong for Man U, I didn't really pay attention to the Liverpool match.

It looks as though our shady chairman has plumbed new depths of shadiness. Ezekiel Fryers has joined Standard Liege on a free from Manchester United on a 2 year deal. However, Spurs have paid the registration for Liege and presumably thrown other compensation (Bentley?) their way, presumably in order to avoid paying the £6mil compensation to United as decreed by the tribunal (foreign clubs don't have to pay for signing youth players on a free). Sounds well dodgy, but see you in January "on loan" I guess, Mr Fryers.

Has he signed a permanent or a loan? The write ups were all pretty glowing. One of my good friends from back home, now living in London, is a massive Owls fan so I always keep a look out for their scores. Now they're in the Championship Steve and I are planning to go to Ashton Gate in April, which will most likely be my first trip there in the 5 years I've lived here for. How are they looking this year?

Have you seen Spurs' mid-fielder Luongo yet, who (despite being Australian) seems to be doing pretty well at Ipswich Town so far?

Arsenal now have apparently pulled out of the Sahin race, the reported reason being that Arsene wanted a permanent move for him. Either that means they actually couldn't reach an agreement with Madrid, or they are shifting their focus to other targets, Yann M'Vila comes to mind there.

Also, according to Wenger, Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain looks set to return to the squad after missing the Sunderland match while Koscielny will miss the Stoke game but return for the Liverpool match.

Gatehawk wrote:Arsenal now have apparently pulled out of the Sahin race, the reported reason being that Arsene wanted a permanent move for him. Either that means they actually couldn't reach an agreement with Madrid, or they are shifting their focus to other targets, Yann M'Vila comes to mind there.

Also, according to Wenger, Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain looks set to return to the squad after missing the Sunderland match while Koscielny will miss the Stoke game but return for the Liverpool match.

M'Vila would be a good addition. Sounds like a bit of a headcase but you guys need a good DM, which he is. Song's gone and Diaby's pretty average.

Diaby's good, but he's a short term solution, that's why Arsenal needs to get M'Vila. Arsenal is definitely in the drivers seat with him, Zenit pulled out after he rejected them and Spurs is the only other team reportedly interested, though there's is only recent and a bit suspicious especially since they aren't interested in most of the players this offseason unless Arsenal is also linked, Vertonghen may or may not be the exception I don't know who was interested in him first.

M'Villa seems quality, but I agree with spur, bit of a headcase. I just don't think Liverpool really need Sahin right now. Henderson actually looked decent tonight against Hearts, Gerrard is obviously still a big part of the midfield, Allen was just brought in, Downing, Assaidi, Sterling, Lucas, Shelvey....and then Sahin? I feel like Gaston Ramirez would be a better target.

Football is not a matter of life and death. It's much more important than that. ~ Bill Shankley

Gatehawk wrote:Diaby's good, but he's a short term solution, that's why Arsenal needs to get M'Vila. Arsenal is definitely in the drivers seat with him, Zenit pulled out after he rejected them and Spurs is the only other team reportedly interested, though there's is only recent and a bit suspicious especially since they aren't interested in most of the players this offseason unless Arsenal is also linked, Vertonghen may or may not be the exception I don't know who was interested in him first.

To be honest Vertonghen and M'Vila are the only players I can think of that Spurs had any interest in, and in M'Vila the interest sounded fairly tenuous. Who else are you thinking of?

Well, I guess the only thing I can say about today is, better start than last year. I think I've figured out the main reason Arsenal is struggling to score, it's because they try to be fancy with their attempts, case in point Giroud's attempted scissor kick when he really didn't need to do that. They need to just straight up fire it.

Liverpool grew into that half. Sterling doesn't look out of place at this level.

By the way... spoke to a manager yesterday and apparently the Swansea players wanted Laudrup out almost as soon as he arrived. Didn't click at all... a few protests within the squad etc. Now have a 100% record, scored eight goals and conceded none. I'm working on their next game on Tuesday.

theENGLISHseahawk wrote:Liverpool grew into that half. Sterling doesn't look out of place at this level.

By the way... spoke to a manager yesterday and apparently the Swansea players wanted Laudrup out almost as soon as he arrived. Didn't click at all... a few protests within the squad etc. Now have a 100% record, scored eight goals and conceded none. I'm working on their next game on Tuesday.

Sterling looked quality. Joe Allen looks the business. Borini will get better the more time he and Suarez spend together. Lucas doesn't fit in Rodgers' system.

Really should have had all three points today.

Football is not a matter of life and death. It's much more important than that. ~ Bill Shankley

Gatehawk wrote:Well, I guess the only thing I can say about today is, better start than last year. I think I've figured out the main reason Arsenal is struggling to score, it's because they try to be fancy with their attempts, case in point Giroud's attempted scissor kick when he really didn't need to do that. They need to just straight up fire it.

Arsenal aren't scoring because they don't have RVP. We said it several times last year, he WAS Arsenal's goals, with few exceptions.

Football is not a matter of life and death. It's much more important than that. ~ Bill Shankley

Gatehawk wrote:Well, I guess the only thing I can say about today is, better start than last year. I think I've figured out the main reason Arsenal is struggling to score, it's because they try to be fancy with their attempts, case in point Giroud's attempted scissor kick when he really didn't need to do that. They need to just straight up fire it.

Arsenal aren't scoring because they don't have RVP. We said it several times last year, he WAS Arsenal's goals, with few exceptions.

LFC scored 4 goals and only got 1 point today. Encouraging, but frustrating.

Arsenal couldn't score today against 11 goalposts. Maybe they should sub in their bank account, I hear it's very impressive.

peachesenregalia wrote:Arsenal aren't scoring because they don't have RVP. We said it several times last year, he WAS Arsenal's goals, with few exceptions.

You're really gonna use that shit ass excuse? Come on dude, I thought you had more common sense than that. Last year, Arsenal didn't score in their first 2 games, and lost the 2nd game. Funny thing about this, for a team that hasn't scored yet, they're ahead of Spurs and Liverpool, who have scored, in the standings. Liverpool and Spurs should have won this, and Liverpool embarrassed themselves last week when they shouldn't have. Arsenal's defense actually made a difference today against Stoke, and Arsenal always have trouble with Stoke especially at the Britannia.

peachesenregalia wrote:Arsenal aren't scoring because they don't have RVP. We said it several times last year, he WAS Arsenal's goals, with few exceptions.

You're really gonna use that shit ass excuse? Come on dude, I thought you had more common sense than that. Last year, Arsenal didn't score in their first 2 games, and lost the 2nd game. Funny thing about this, for a team that hasn't scored yet, they're ahead of Spurs and Liverpool, who have scored, in the standings. Liverpool and Spurs should have won this, and Liverpool embarrassed themselves last week when they shouldn't have. Arsenal's defense actually made a difference today against Stoke, and Arsenal always have trouble with Stoke especially at the Britannia.

look no shame in taking a point out of the Britannia, but I think what peaches is saying (and if so I agree) is that the loss of RvP will have an immense impact on Arsenal's scoring abilities. You cant deny it right now. Its why United bought him. He is world (world) class as he showed yesterday.

Arsenal will get on track but RvP really bailed them out of some games last season. Someone will have to step up... someone will.

As for Liverpool, what do you say? Rodgers new system both helped and hurt again today. Little bit too often our back line got stuck in trying to build out. Skrtel doesnt gift that last year because he never would have been asked to play that way.

2 points lost but I think confidence gained. Sterling was a revelation, and Joe Allen very surprising (as was Shelvey to be fair)

Gate, it's not an excuse. Losing RVP lost your team 25-30 goals in all comps. Someone needs to step up and fill that role, and so far no-one has. Giroud looks a decent signing, as does Cazorla, but Podolski is just not very good.

Anyway, Si, I agree. The system brought plenty of chances and created the set-pieces, but the defense is suffering as a result. Joe Allen looked great, as did Shelvey. I don't think Lucas fits, so I see Sahin taking the midfield role next to Gerrard and Allen, with Assaidi coming in to spell Sterling occasionally. Sterling looks every bit as good as we thought he could be. His pace is electric. Once Suarez learns to look up and find Borini/Sterling, we'll start scoring plenty. Disappointed to see Suarez still running his mouth too much. Yes, the ref was being fairly easy on some of those tackles from Man City's backline, but you need to shut up and keep playing. Hopefully he learns sooner rather than later.

Football is not a matter of life and death. It's much more important than that. ~ Bill Shankley

Liverpool were better than I expected today. I thought Suarez was absolutely rubbish for the most part... then he bangs out that world class free-kick. Still lacking a couple of truly world class players in key areas for me but that was more encouraging today for Liverpool than I was anticipating.

Arsenal just looked devoid of ideas. The usual pretty passing at times but they'd get to the edge of the box and... nothing. No inspiration. Nobody seemingly willing to have a shot. Only when Walcott and Oxlaide-Chamberlain came on was there any threat to Stoke... and that's because they were more direct and took people on. Podolski and Gervinho were just on the periphery throughout. Dip your toe in, lads. I think Giroud will come good and it's not a direct replacement for RVP that is required... more it's an attack minded player who can play in front of Cazorla/Arteta and provide a cutting edge plus get 15 or so goals.

Giroud looks like he COULD become that player, Rob, but there are never any guarantees in this game.

I agree about Suarez for the most part. That free kick was world class, though, and he still causes headaches for defenses. Borini's putting himself in great positions, and I think goals will come out of that. Defense really needs to figure it out, though, as at least 4 of the 5 goals we've shipped have come in the form of defensive lapses (I'm including penalties conceded here).

Football is not a matter of life and death. It's much more important than that. ~ Bill Shankley

peachesenregalia wrote:Gate, it's not an excuse. Losing RVP lost your team 25-30 goals in all comps. Someone needs to step up and fill that role, and so far no-one has. Giroud looks a decent signing, as does Cazorla, but Podolski is just not very good.

I'm using common sense, it's not an excuse, it's not a reason. Hell it's only two games, we can't be jumping to conclusions like 95% of the world. There's still 5 days left and Wenger has stated they are still looking at possible signings, I do get the feeling they are after Dempsey but they're surprisingly quiet about it if they are.

If Arsenal do go for Deuce then it's a fight with Liverpool, who Fulham are furious with apparently, but I do believe Arsenal would have the advantage as they can offer immediate play in the Champions League, playing time is another matter(Liverpool still have to figure out what to do with Carroll and Arsenal have Giroud and Podolski).

Well, at last it's over. Spurs have agreed to sell Luka Modric to Real Madrid for upwards of £33 million. We've also agreed some sort of 'partnership' with Real Madrid, which I guess means that Gareth Bale will probably be playing at the Bernabeu next season, but could also result in Spurs getting more players like van der Vaart who are surplus to requirements in Madrid.

Fingers crossed that we can now find a good midfielder sometime in the next 4 days. I really want Dembele. Moutinho would be nice too. I don't want to see much more of Livermore or Jenas on the pitch while the game is still in the balance.