I know this has been discussed before, but I think it's a good time to revive with Moya about to defend Rome...

I have been a huge Carlos Moya fan since he ascended to the top of the men's game, but recently I feel like his top-five/top-10 ranking is a product of smoke and mirrors. He stacks up a bunch of points in smaller events at the beginning of the year, then has decent results the rest of way (with perhaps one exceptional clay-court TMS event), never making an impact at a Grand Slam or in a big match against another top player. How do you compare him to the other top 10ers?
-- Robert Briggs, New York City

Moya won the '98 French Open, seemed destined for truly big things and since then has taken up long-term tenancy in the top five. But you'd be hard-pressed to find a player who pulls more vanishing acts in Slams. Time and again -- and, really, surface be damned -- Moya fails to live up to his seeding at Majors. This is just a stunning stat: He has not so much as reached a Grand Slam semifinal since '98. You're right to note that his "big match" record surely compares poorly with other top-10 players. And while he's won a few TMS events and helped Spain win the '04 Davis Cup, if you look at his career objectively, you'd be within your rights to label him an "underachiever."

But Moya is a great example of what a winning personality does for perception. I recently heard Moya described as "the Spanish Pat Rafter," and I think that fits pretty well. Apart from his model looks, the guy is absolutely beloved by the fans, the other players, the media and tennis administrators. And with good reason: He is a gentleman who -- cliché alert -- is a credit to the sport. There's a lesson in here for other players: Do right by the sport, comport yourself like a pro, and us critics in the salon will cut you an awful lot of slack.

federer express

04-18-2005, 09:14 PM

simply...he fails to peak at slams. but his performances throughout the year justify his ranking at the end of the day.

Sjengster

04-18-2005, 10:35 PM

But Moya is a great example of what a winning personality does for perception. I recently heard Moya described as "the Spanish Pat Rafter," and I think that fits pretty well. Apart from his model looks, the guy is absolutely beloved by the fans, the other players, the media and tennis administrators. And with good reason: He is a gentleman who -- cliché alert -- is a credit to the sport. There's a lesson in here for other players: Do right by the sport, comport yourself like a pro, and us critics in the salon will cut you an awful lot of slack.

:lol: Who do you think Werthless was referring to in this last part, eh? Honestly Jon, just because he turned down your offer to fill Kim's shoes doesn't mean you have to take digs at him every week.

My own personal take on Moya is best summed up in this post of mine from last year: http://www.menstennisforums.com/showpost.php?p=799501&postcount=251

Horatio Caine

04-18-2005, 10:40 PM

simply...he fails to peak at slams. but his performances throughout the year justify his ranking at the end of the day.

The Croat fans will lap this up and dish it out in the "Ljubicic to finish the year in the top 8" thread.

Besides, it depends on where he gets to in the Slams - he never does notoriously badly as far as I remember...apart from Aus Open 2005. He seems to win a few rounds which is okay. His Masters points have been excellent in recent years and that makes up for his GS disappointments. He is still winning big matches and big points...just not the biggest.

Deivid23

04-18-2005, 10:44 PM

I expect him to have a lot of success in next tourneys, wait and see. Vamos Charly.

euroka1

04-18-2005, 10:58 PM

To me the rankings don't mean much and they are not much more than arcane numerology. I can see who the great players are at any one time. But I gather (see tennis4you discussion) that it all depends on the behind the scenes drudgery over the last year or so, much of which I never get to see.

After watching his two recent finals matches, who can doubt that Nadal is currently one of the best players in front of us today?

Neely

04-18-2005, 11:25 PM

I've said it often enough, Moya had one of the best TMS results of all players last year and as long as he accumulated enough points to keep his Top 5 and Top 10 ranking it's deserved, no matter if he made an impact at Grand Slams or not, which is certainly sad that he failed to do in the past (but it doesn't matter for the ranking purpose as he is top 10 consistently since long time)

Bilbo

04-18-2005, 11:27 PM

Moya will reach at least the Semifinals of Barcelona.

uNIVERSE mAN

04-19-2005, 03:08 AM

I don't like Moya. He takes running around the back hand to a ridiculous level.

Roger The Great

04-19-2005, 03:18 AM

To me the rankings don't mean much and they are not much more than arcane numerology. I can see who the great players are at any one time. But I gather (see tennis4you discussion) that it all depends on the behind the scenes drudgery over the last year or so, much of which I never get to see.

After watching his two recent finals matches, who can doubt that Nadal is currently one of the best players in front of us today?

This may not be a popular statement but I don't find the current rankings system so bad. What they do is reward consistency over the course of 12 months, not just a great couple months of play. Nadal has been probably the second best player in the world since the Aussie Open. However, he isn't #2 in the rankings because he needs to prove he can keep that up. I personally think he can... But he needs to show that.

PaulieM

04-19-2005, 03:28 AM

This may not be a popular statement but I don't find the current rankings system so bad. What they do is reward consistency over the course of 12 months, not just a great couple months of play. Nadal has been probably the second best player in the world since the Aussie Open. However, he isn't #2 in the rankings because he needs to prove he can keep that up. I personally think he can... But he needs to show that.
agreed.
charly :hug::hug:

euroka1

04-19-2005, 09:08 AM

This may not be a popular statement but I don't find the current rankings system so bad. What they do is reward consistency over the course of 12 months, not just a great couple months of play. Nadal has been probably the second best player in the world since the Aussie Open. However, he isn't #2 in the rankings because he needs to prove he can keep that up. I personally think he can... But he needs to show that.

You're quite right. I guess that I view tennis through a rather narrow time window. It does seem to me though that, in the influence on the seeding and order of play in a tournament, the ranking system tilts the field and favors the establishment.

Puschkin

04-19-2005, 09:42 AM

I don't like Moya. He takes running around the back hand to a ridiculous level.

I don't like his tennis either, for the same reason. But I respect his personality, the donation of the FULL Chennai prize money was a class act.

propi

04-19-2005, 09:45 AM

Moya is great :worship: one of the most talented players out there :)
If he's in top 10 it's because he deserves it :worship:
He will stay there longer and will have great slams results again :)

JeLuliA88

04-19-2005, 10:48 AM

Doesn't matter how he accumulates his points, as long as he is consistent enough, he deserve to be in the top 10.

Horatio Caine

04-19-2005, 11:48 AM

I don't like Moya. He takes running around the back hand to a ridiculous level.

:haha: :haha: Well, if it works for him...

switz

04-19-2005, 01:08 PM

carlos is great. if he won a few rounds in monte carlo he would be number 5 now so i don't see how it can really be smoke and mirrors. he gets the points. he also made the quarters of roland garros losing a tight match to a very in form coria and last another tight one to hewitt in the 4ht round or quarters of wimbledon last year didn't he?

his grand slam results certainly could be better but he's been in the top 10 for a long time now and you really can't stay there without being good enough.

liptea

04-19-2005, 01:42 PM

:sad: Maybe Carlos will do well in Barcelon and prove everyone wrong.

(maybe he'll prove everyone right and crash in the first round.)

He's so unpredictable. It's Frustrating.

TheMightyFed

04-19-2005, 01:50 PM

Leave the guy alone, he's been consistently in top 10 over the years, in itself it's quite feat, plus he has 1 GS and has been number 1, plus the DC. I mean, he's not a joker. A bit of a choker, but he deserves respect. :worship:

Experimentee

04-19-2005, 03:26 PM

He does underachieve a lot at Slams, for someone with a top 5 ranking. That deserves to be questioned because Slams are what players are judged by, and those who reach #1 without winning a Slam always cop some flak so its only fair that Moya should be criticised for his bad performances too. I respect his personality and game as well, but he shouldnt be exempt from criticism just because of that.

Cervantes

04-19-2005, 04:19 PM

This may not be a popular statement but I don't find the current rankings system so bad. What they do is reward consistency over the course of 12 months, not just a great couple months of play. Nadal has been probably the second best player in the world since the Aussie Open. However, he isn't #2 in the rankings because he needs to prove he can keep that up. I personally think he can... But he needs to show that.

Very true, the current ranking system works pretty well in my opinion. I can't see how the system favors the established players like someone sugested, you get what you earned over a 12 month period. And if you're good enough you'll get up the rankings eventually anyway.

YoursTruly

04-19-2005, 11:12 PM

Moya has top 5 results minus the slams, although a lot of room is made with his slam showings like in 2004. Imagine if he was in the qtrs or semis or with a slam victory - his points would be top 5 or 3.