Sex discrimination commissioner 'appalled' but not surprised by latest Army scandal

Updated
June 14, 2013 08:08:00

For 18 months the sex discrimination commissioner Elizabeth Broderick immersed herself in Defence culture as part of the review she led into the treatment of women in Defence. The commissioner says this latest episode is a setback; that there are men in Defence who believe women have no place in the military at all and who can't change their behaviour.

TONY EASTLEY: For 18 months the sex discrimination commissioner Elizabeth Broderick immersed herself in Defence culture as part of the review she led into the treatment of women in the Defence forces.

The commissioner says this latest episode is a set back; and she admits there are men in Defence who who've been living "under a rock" and who can't change their behaviour who mistakenly believe women have no place in the military.

Commissioner Broderick has been speaking to chief political correspondent Sabra Lane.

ELIZABETH BRODERICK: I was absolutely appalled. I was appalled because I've worked with the military over the last 18 months. I've conducted what's probably the most detailed review into the culture. I've been to 36 military bases, up to Afghanistan.

And I'd heard a lot of positive stories, but yes, also Sabra, I've heard many distressing stories - stories where women had been demeaned, where there was extreme exclusion.

So, in one sense, I was appalled, but was I totally surprised? No, I think I'd have to say no.

SABRA LANE: General Morrison says that material's repugnant, derogatory and demeaning. Is there a core group of men within Defence beyond change?

ELIZABETH BRODERICK: Well, there are men that I met as I travelled around who clearly thought that women had no place in Australia's military. There were men who just didn't get that actually the future capability and sustainability of the military was based on both women and men contributing.

So there's no question that there's I'd say a small group of those men, but then there's probably a slightly larger group who don't think that men and women are equal, that actually it's still primarily an organisation for bloke's business.

And then of course you've got, I think, the overwhelming majority who recognise that both men and women contribute equally.

SABRA LANE: Some of this activity to have happened before your investigation. It's like they're thumbing their noses at Defence hierarchy and you.

ELIZABETH BRODERICK: Well, I don't know whether they're thumbing their nose. I think what we've seen with the incident and the revelations yesterday is just the difficulty of cultural change in a complex organisation.

I mean the fact that it went from very senior officers right down to general enlistment. It was people who'd been in there 10, 15 years who obviously are no doubt across the changes that are happening in Army, and there have been some really significant changes, but for whatever reason continue to act in a manner which is just so inconsistent with the values.

So yes, they've either been living under a rock or they just cannot change their behaviour. And in that case I'd have to question whether there's a future for them in the Army.

SABRA LANE: What does it say to you that senior chain of command men are involved in this?

ELIZABETH BRODERICK: One of the things about an organisation like Defence and the ADF is the chain of command I think exacerbates some of the issues around sexual harassment, sexual abuse, sexism, because, for many women, where can they go if those up the chain of command are not necessarily sympathetic to their particular situation?

So, the fact that senior members of the chain of command are there, I think tells you that this is a cultural issue, it's systemic, it's across many different layers of the organisation.

And it's not just strong leadership that's necessary, but actually it's working with those bulk of cultural ambassadors - those men that sit in the middle rank, who've been there for many years - to help them understand why this needs to stop, but also that the organisation needs to change.