Andrius and Paolo chat about Learning From Each Other

Paolo Pumilia, Thank you for introducing yourself to our group! I look forward to your letters about your Open Content conferences. I invite more of us might

Message 1 of 5
, Aug 24, 2006

Paolo Pumilia, Thank you for introducing yourself to our group! I look
forward to your letters about your Open Content conferences. I invite
more of us might introduce ourselves. I share my chat with Paolo.
Andrius Kulikauskas, http://www.ms.lt
---------------------------------------------------------------

Andrius: Hi Paolo, I encourage you to write to our working group
Learning From Each Other which Pamela McLean is leading. I signed up you
and others at Como for this group so that we can write about Open
Content there.
… learningfromeachother@yahoogroups.com
… I also sent my notes there from our round table
Paolo: hi
Andrius: hi
Paolo: ok, il will read
… letters from that group
Andrius: great
Paolo: is there a page explaining the aims of that group?
Andrius: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/learningfromeachother/
Paolo: ok
Andrius: http://www.findbetterways.info/wiki.cgi?Learning
Paolo: i see there are a lot of messages
Andrius: yes, you got them, yes?
Paolo: yes, they have been stored automatically
Andrius: oh, that's good
Paolo: but i had no time to read
Andrius: Pamela McLean is leading our work in this area and she agreed
to host your efforts as you build momentum
… especially because Open Content and ICT for Learning are quite related.
Paolo: should i follow any ideas that has proposed before?
Andrius: Most important is just to introduce yourself
… you can read Pamela's latest letter http://groups.yahoo.com/group/learningfromeachother/message/36
… and my notes from Como http://groups.yahoo.com/group/learningfromeachother/message/23
… and also this from Pamela: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/learningfromeachother/message/26
Paolo: ok, i'll read that - I think it would be interesting to comment
on the most important features set up an open content project
Andrius: yes
… but even a simple hello would be a great encouragement!
… and we can discuss details as we go along
Paolo: ok, i will send it now
Andrius: Thank you!
Paolo: i have sent a mesages (you've beeen copied) but it does not shouw up
Andrius: It is your first letter to the group so it gets moderated. I
will change your settings now.
Paolo: :(
… ok
… :)
… |-)
Andrius: Paolo, I've made the changes. Thank you! It's a great beginning!
… Pamela will be happy!
Paolo: who is pamela?
Andrius: She is the leader of the group. She lives in London, UK. She
has a special interest in Africa.
Paolo: wht about open content and education?
Andrius: Her interest is in "learning from each other" and how to use
ICT for learning.
… So I asked her to host our work on open content.
… And she agreed.
… So we can build momentum together
… and then specialize later.
Paolo: ok- we probably will set a special forum on eexplor.org, in the
next few months
Andrius: Paolo, I encourage you to work together as much as possible to
build momentum - I have invested a lot to work with you!
… Anyways, in the meanwhile, please write to this group about your plans!
Paolo: ok
… but since this group is lead by Pamela, i think we should not drive
the topicc away
Andrius: it's best to have overlapping topics
… we have very few letters right now so it's good to get them
… you are helping her by writing
… and by trying to work together
Paolo: Which kind off help does she need? Ideas?
Andrius: People
… who share their projects
… and are looking for ways to work together
Paolo: But i do know know enough of her project
Andrius: So, for example, you are interested in Open Content and she is
interested in Learning and there is a connection.
… Yes, so please let's learn about each other's projects.
… Write about your project
Paolo: Wel, i have not a project for education really, rather a project
to study open content initiatives
Andrius: Yes, but in reality, I think it is good to connect our
projects, yes?
… Why study open content initiatives unless we want to help them?
… And if we want to help them, we should connect with them, yes?
Paolo: ok,as i promised, i will send more about my ideas - i hope they
are in topic
Andrius: sure, that's great!
… and that will help us think how to connect with you
… and Pamela and I will write about our projects, too
Paolo: ok
Andrius: and I think Agnese will join us and I think others will respond
… I will share our chat.
Paolo: ok, Agnese is a librarian, right?
Andrius: yes
… she is active in our lab
Paolo: deal with education??
Andrius: she lives in Santa Marinella and she traveled now to Tanzania
and Kenya and met our lab members there. She is interested in "local
publishing" and helping them publishing textbooks for primary and
secondary education.
… She came to your conference last year.
Paolo: Interesting
… ys you told me but i do not remember her
Andrius: Yes, so there are very practical opportunities for open content
projects.
… But it helps to look at the bigger picture, for example, education in
general.
… And these projects can I think help us find speakers for your conferences.
Paolo: but why spreading all the people across so many mailing lists?
Andrius: we try not to have too many mailing lists.
… We organize them when we have a strong leader in a new direction.
Paolo: what about the first one? ( i do not remember the name)
Andrius: We have one on BackToTheRoot for leadership development.
… But Pamela joined us and I wanted to organize around her so we started
one on her key concept Learning From Each Other.
… The groups take time to build momentum, it takes effort and patience.
… So that is why we agreed to host your efforts here because we could
share momentum.
… Then we will see what happens.
Paolo: ok
… I am leaving now
Andrius: good night!
Paolo: good night

Pamela McLean

Hello Paulo - and thanks also to Andrius and Benoit for recent related posts. Thank you Paulo for your email introducing yourself. I do share your interest in

Message 2 of 5
, Aug 25, 2006

Hello Paulo - and thanks also to Andrius and Benoit for recent related
posts.

Thank you Paulo for your email introducing yourself. I do share your
interest in Open Content. In this post I will describe some of my
interests in the hope it will help you to recognise how our interests
overlap and how we can take our discussions forward in a fruitful way.
I hope it will serve as a kind of personal introduction too. I confess
it is a long email because I feel your post has acted as a catalyst and
focus for laying out my ideas and hopes for this group. After we take a
wide view can see more easily where to focus.

I am interested in Open Content because it is an important aspect of how
new educational systems are developing now that we have the Internet.
My interest in the development of such systems is the reason why Andrius
set up this group. I have been interested in the relationship between
ICTs and the development of educational systems since I studied with the
Open University in the 1970s/80s.

Currently I am linked with various community development projects in
rural Nigeria, an area which - surprisingly perhaps - provides rich
opportunities for exploring the development of ICT enabled education.
Perhaps you have heard the story of the two shoe salesmen who went to
Africa - one came back saying there was no market because people went
barefoot, while the other came back greatly excited at the potential.
That is how I see the situation regarding ICT enabled education in rural
Nigeria. It is new ground.

There are benefits in working in new ground. It seems to me that in any
area where there is already a well established educational system, there
will inevitably be structures and systems designed for the industrial
society - not for the information society of the 21st century. If the
structures and systems - the buildings, the roles, the thinking, and the
individual and group ways of behaving, have all taken their shape from
19th and 20th century norms, then the potential of ICT will probably be
something of an "add on" - rather than being the catalyst - the main
force driving developments and structures. By contrast in areas where
19th and 20th century educational systems are less well established (as
in rural Nigeria) new approaches to education, enabled through ICT,
could develop with greater freedom, in a more organic way (once the ICT
infrastructure breaks through.)

There are various elements needed for ICT enabled learning. It can be
helpful to consider the elements under two headings - delivery systems
and content.

The delivery systems consist of :
- Infrastructure to deliver information (Internet connectivity and
electrical power).
- Hardware and software to accept and process and deliver information.
- Buildings in which to place the hardware and software.
- People to install and maintain the equipment.
- People to operate the equipment.
- Independent learners to benefit from the educational potential of the
ICT system.
- E-learning champions to share what they know about the educational
potential of ICTs with others.
- Social networks to enable the e-learning champions to link up with
potential learners and other beneficiaries.
- Funding mechanisms to pay for this kind of educational system in a
sustainable way.

Content :
Some people think of content for e-learning only in connection with
formal course delivery - but here at Learning From Each Other I want us
to think about informal e-learning as well.

I hope that the discussions we will have here will be seen as part of
our learning, as individuals and as a group. I hope we will be
developing our group knowledge of ICT applied to learning - both in
practice and in theory.

Discussion of the development of our group knowledge brings us back once
again to Open Content. I think of Open Content as a continuum. At one
extreme is the kind of Open Content made available by MIT, which means
all of us are all free to read course materials that previously were
only available to registered MIT students. At the other extreme we have
free flowing discussions such as the ones that Andrius is enabling
through his groups. He has brought us, and others, into groups on the
Internet to share ideas in an Open Content way.

As I understand it, Andrius is using our discussions to generate "Open
Content", and then using his own interventions, plus tagging, wiki
pages, and RSS feeds to structure the information in ways that are more
easily searchable. This organic-growth approach to Open Content is one
that I find very appealing. I am very interested and want to learn more
about Andrius' strategies so that I can apply them to other groups I
work in - especially Cawdnet groups where we are involved in informal
learning of one kind and another, and where we include information
exchanges and collaborative work through the Internet. (Cawdnet is a
network concerned with ICT4D - especially, but not exclusively, in rural
Nigeria)

I am also interested in the practicalities using an Open Content
approach to share resources that have originally been developed to
support traditional face to face teaching. This is both a general
interest and also a specific one, regarding a course I am developing
with Fantsuam Foundation (FF) called the "No Computer Computer Course"
(NC3). (FF is part of Cawdnet.)

I wonder, Paulo, how far your interest in Open Content springs from
experience with the development and/or use of Free and Open Source
Software (FOSS) - something that is very relevant regarding ICT use in
rural Nigeria.

In Cawdnet we are currently exploring the use of Moodle (which is Open
Source) for our virtual meetings. It provides a meeting place for us on
the Internet where we can work collaboratively. Moodle's course based
structures mean that separate groups can "meet" in separate "locations"
(as if they are on separate "courses") without unnecessary overlap and
information overload. Within Moodle it is possible for groups members to
exchange emails - so that part is similar to the way we are working here
in Learning From Each Other. The course structure also means that groups
can easily flip from a "very open" to a "very closed" approach to
information exchanges - depending on the purpose. There are various
other features that are interesting to us. Discovering the ways is which
Moodle can (and can't) serve our needs is another part of the ICT4Ed
learning experience.

Benoit - regarding Moodle - I was very interested in the posting you
sent a while back regarding Blackboard and Moodle and intellectual
property etc - thank you.

Paulo - I hope within this posting you have found areas of interest to
you - Please share your thoughts again soon.

Lurkers and others - I extend to you that hope and invitation as well -
whether you have previously contributed here or if you are lurking -
please introduce yourselves in this context and add your thoughts and
perspectives to these discussions.

Andrius - Thank you for bringing us together to explore these ideas and
learn from each other.

Pam

samuel kongere

Dear Pamela and ALL, Good to hear of the open content management. I am saying that open content and educational procedures with Internet are going together

Message 3 of 5
, Aug 28, 2006

Dear Pamela and ALL,

Good to hear of the open content management. I am saying that open content and educational procedures with Internet are going together with this time of Internet. I am also very happy to learn how Open content works and How I can find anyone or organization to make me learn or to be trained on open content management.

Me, together with Maria Agnese Giraudo are very hopeful to get a distance learning chance to enable us have this experience about ICTS open content management. It is something which will make our understanding of Open Content management elaborate and understandable to both of us. Somebody with such an Idea should let us know on how to acquire such skills.

... Dear Pamela, i agree with you that the rise of a new educational system needs new structures and that surely building on new ground offers certain

Message 4 of 5
, Aug 29, 2006

On Saturday 26 August 2006 01:54, Pamela McLean wrote:

> (...)
> There are benefits in working in new ground. It seems to me that in any
> area where there is already a well established educational system, there
> will inevitably be structures and systems designed for the industrial
> society - not for the information society of the 21st century. If the
> structures and systems - the buildings, the roles, the thinking, and the
> individual and group ways of behaving, have all taken their shape from
> 19th and 20th century norms, then the potential of ICT will probably be
> something of an "add on" - rather than being the catalyst - the main
> force driving developments and structures. By contrast in areas where
> 19th and 20th century educational systems are less well established (as
> in rural Nigeria) new approaches to education, enabled through ICT,
> could develop with greater freedom, in a more organic way (once the ICT
> infrastructure breaks through.)

Dear Pamela, i agree with you that the rise of a new educational system needs
new structures and that surely building on new ground offers certain
advantages over striving to trasform a well established system. Probably
peculiar suggestions towards a new educational system will come from both
contexts.

Although 'open content' has no broadly accepted definition and being not so
deeply studied yet, as the open source counterpart, in my opinion, some
important organizational traits leading to successful open source projects
could be transferred to the educational context. Open content projects, as
thereafter outlined, could strongly support the innovation of the educational
system.

Paralleling the open source phenomenon, here is my view:
Key concepts of open content successful project are
- re-usability of 'objects', both on the technical and the law sides
(the 'commons')
- the peculiar community that forms and thrives in the commons, aimed at
delivering and using a well defined 'product'.

In such kind of communities solid and trusted connections are maintained
between the 'project leaders' and the end-users through a consistent
population of effective contributors, thus enpowering end-users to drive the
project development ('shifting the locus of innovation towards users', after
Von Hippel)
However, project leaders are those in charge for success of the project
(effectivess, long term planning, 'quality', etc).
Out of project leader role features is the ability to understand, to feel,
what is a real need in a professional sector, and to see how to provide an
effective answer. That is the first step to start a successful project.

Coming to the educational environment, my opinion is that open content project
proposers should, at first stage, spend time to clear up which teachers' and
students' real needs they intend to meet, before taking to forge manuals,
lectures, 'knowledge objects', etc.
In that process, directions for the rearrangement of the school/univ
organization will be envisaged, together with the elaboration and the
manifacturing of 'products'.
As the project succeeds, an 'open community' will form, providing their
incentive for the change of structures.

>(...)
> Discussion of the development of our group knowledge brings us back once
> again to Open Content. I think of Open Content as a continuum. At one
> extreme is the kind of Open Content made available by MIT, which means
> all of us are all free to read course materials that previously were
> only available to registered MIT students. At the other extreme we have
> free flowing discussions such as the ones that Andrius is enabling
> through his groups. He has brought us, and others, into groups on the
> Internet to share ideas in an Open Content way.
>

Yes, i agree with your view, by and large. I have to admit i do not know much
of the Andrius' experimentation on free flowing discussion (although we have
known each other over years).

--
Paolo

Ramunas Janavicius

Dear Pamela and Paolo, i think that recently published book would be in content of new education structures in far more broader sense: THE ECOLOGY OF LEARNING:

On Saturday 26 August 2006 01:54, Pamela McLean wrote:> (...)> There are benefits in working in new ground. It seems to me that in any> area where there is already a well established educational system, there
> will inevitably be structures and systems designed for the industrial> society - not for the information society of the 21st century. If the> structures and systems - the buildings, the roles, the thinking, and the
> individual and group ways of behaving, have all taken their shape from> 19th and 20th century norms, then the potential of ICT will probably be> something of an "add on" - rather than being the catalyst - the main
> force driving developments and structures. By contrast in areas where> 19th and 20th century educational systems are less well established (as> in rural Nigeria) new approaches to education, enabled through ICT,
> could develop with greater freedom, in a more organic way (once the ICT> infrastructure breaks through.)

Dear Pamela, i agree with you that the rise of a new educational system needsnew structures and that surely building on new ground offers certain
advantages over striving to trasform a well established system. Probablypeculiar suggestions towards a new educational system will come from bothcontexts.

Although 'open content' has no broadly accepted definition and being not so
deeply studied yet, as the open source counterpart, in my opinion, someimportant organizational traits leading to successful open source projectscould be transferred to the educational context. Open content projects, as
thereafter outlined, could strongly support the innovation of the educationalsystem.

Paralleling the open source phenomenon, here is my view:Key concepts of open content successful project are - re-usability of 'objects', both on the technical and the law sides
(the 'commons') - the peculiar community that forms and thrives in the commons, aimed atdelivering and using a well defined 'product'.

In such kind of communities solid and trusted connections are maintained
between the 'project leaders' and the end-users through a consistentpopulation of effective contributors, thus enpowering end-users to drive theproject development ('shifting the locus of innovation towards users', after
Von Hippel)However, project leaders are those in charge for success of the project(effectivess, long term planning, 'quality', etc).Out of project leader role features is the ability to understand, to feel,
what is a real need in a professional sector, and to see how to provide aneffective answer. That is the first step to start a successful project.

Coming to the educational environment, my opinion is that open content project
proposers should, at first stage, spend time to clear up which teachers' andstudents' real needs they intend to meet, before taking to forge manuals,lectures, 'knowledge objects', etc.In that process, directions for the rearrangement of the school/univ
organization will be envisaged, together with the elaboration and themanifacturing of 'products'.As the project succeeds, an 'open community' will form, providing theirincentive for the change of structures.

>(...)> Discussion of the development of our group knowledge brings us back once> again to Open Content. I think of Open Content as a continuum. At one> extreme is the kind of Open Content made available by MIT, which means
> all of us are all free to read course materials that previously were> only available to registered MIT students. At the other extreme we have> free flowing discussions such as the ones that Andrius is enabling
> through his groups. He has brought us, and others, into groups on the> Internet to share ideas in an Open Content way.>

Yes, i agree with your view, by and large. I have to admit i do not know much
of the Andrius' experimentation on free flowing discussion (although we haveknown each other over years).

--Paolo

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