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^ Reflecting a spell and using one aren't the same you know. While he can be beaten with a trick à la GREMLIN, he could partially reflect the wings of a Christian Archangel once and completely disintegrated a weaker level spell. Saints have 0 chance against him if they go the physical way (unless they go Kihara-kun too ), and apparently only certain type/level of magic can hit him.
Also what if he's not a LV.6? His wings are more than enough to curbstomp any Saint.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acer

We just saw two saints fight seriously in serie: Kanzaki and Acqua, and by what these two have shown, with the exception of the Accelerator, it sThere lose to the others you mentioned anything, God, Acqua was incredible too.

The physical abilities of a saint are absurd, though I Admit that Mugino is a monster, do not believe she would win a fight with them, at least she would outlook capable of reacting to attack any of them?

Of course Acqua-bro is a monster among monsters Neither I think there's a LV.5 (apart from Accel and probably Fridge-kun MK.II) who can beat him yet.
However, for the other known Saints, I don't think they're out of reach of Vol.15 Kakine (not counting his new powers and/or new wings). And Gunha is easily average Saint Level. Not to mention all of them can be potentially far above Saints if they get a hold of their own true potential ... because no matter how strong they can be, Saints are still bellow angels and Majin.

The reason why, I included Mugino is because you can't just rush at someone enveloped with 10000 beams no matter how fast and physically strong you are But, hey, anyone can beat her if they have the patience to wait for her powers to run out.

@desrtsku - It's not like saints are a bunch of superpowered thugs. Though we haven't seen them that much in actions, the ones we have use their brain well enough. And their speed/reaction time is not something you can ignore.

Somethings I need to mention:
- Magicians knows espers' weakness. In the opposite, espers don't know magicians' weakness.
- Gunha barely reaches 2 times the speed of sound. Saints can go several times the speed of the sound enough to be called godlike speed while leaving ridiculous amouns of magical energy explosions as aftereffects.
- Accelerator can'r reflect the spell, only turn it into basic energy.

And if she gets Gungnir, Othinus would have a 100% of victory? I refuse to believe that she'll become "invincible" with Gungnir... I mean, Fiamma achieved la persona superiore a dio, and still lost, and let's not forget that Aleister crushed Fiamma easily

The gap between a Saint and a lvl 5 is still too big. Even acelerator can only got at 850km/h. Of course, that depends of the enemies and the type of powers they have

Where did you get that idea? I did some calculations and Accelerator (in Angel form) is about mach 23. Mugino, because of her feat of escaping the bombs she blew up in volume 19, is slightly above mach 20 in speed.

On another note though, the character with the fastest movement speed in the series is Mjolnir, being almost Mach 37.

Spoiler for Speed calculations for Mugino, Accelerator, and Mjolnir:

Mugino's Mach 20.395102 feat.

Spoiler for Volume 19:

Quote:

The response had come from quite close nearby. Mugino had been hit by a counterattack with a handgun the previous time, so she quickly and forcefully twisted her body around and fired Meltdowner without checking on her target. A brilliant beam of light shot out and the fighter jet in its path melted orange.

But just before it did, Mugino saw what was there.

A service tractor and a long narrow bomb packed in what looked like a large pipe were in the place she had fired on. On top of those was a wireless headset that was set at its highest volume so the sound would escape into the surrounding area and a fiberscope with a wireless LAN that would be used for aircraft maintenance.

She didn’t have time to think about it.

Before she could think a single thought, the 200 kg bomb that she herself had struck with intense heat split open and created a large explosion that enveloped the other bombs, the missiles, and the airplane fuel.

Hamazura was hiding at a distance, but he did not escape unharmed.

He had found an electric tractor-like vehicle used for moving the fighters and had been silently travelling at high speed away. He had hidden behind cover about 500 meters from the explosion. His cover was a small truck filled with paint tools used to change the color of the fighters. He had used a maintenance radio to send out his voice and was subsequently sent rolling along the ground as the blast struck him.

“Gwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!”

He felt like his eardrums were about to burst. An odd pressure came from within that felt like it was going to pop out his eyeballs. But he was more worried about where Takitsubo was. He had at least left the dummy radio in a place away from where he had dropped her and he had handed her the powered suit with the crane. Quick actions were too much for the suit’s normal mode and its high mobility mode could only be activated with a special electronic key, so the suit couldn’t be used to fight, but it should have helped her endure the explosive blast. Even so, he hoped that she had been outside the range of the explosion.

In any case, Mugino Shizuri should have been caught up in the blast.

Fortunately for Hamazura, she still looked down on all of her enemies. In this case, that wasn’t an inaccurate way of viewing her enemy, but it had created unnecessary openings in her defenses and had caused her to let her guard down a bit.

(That 200 kg bomb was created to destroy thick concrete bunkers. That isn’t something to be used on a flesh-and-blood human. I’m sure that was enough even for Mugino. I need to find Takitsubo and get the hell out of here.)

Hamazura tossed aside the radio and the small monitor for the fiberscope and ran back the way he had come.

A hot wind blew about.

The floor had collapsed in the area of the explosion and the destruction had even reached the underground space below. The connecting passageways above had been twisted and knocked down. Hamazura ran amongst it all and searched through that area where a secondary or tertiary explosion could occur at any time all the while calling Taktisubo’s name.

Then he heard something moving.

“Takitsubo?”

Hamazura turned around.

But…

“Haaamazuraaa.”

Heat suddenly fled his entire body. It was already too late. That arm of light was stretching out from the black smoke. Hamazura twisted his body, but an unpleasant sound and smell came from his ear. It sounded like oil being poured onto a heated frying pan.

“Gaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!?”

Mugino appeared cutting through the fog and looking down on Hamazura as he writhed around on the ground.

“Did you reallllly think this kind of mass produced weaponry could take out the #4, Hamazuraaa?”

She had fired Meltdowner like a rocket engine. She must have escaped the 200 kg bomb the same way. With the sound of a blunt weapon being swung, Mugino moved outside of his vision.

Basically, she escaped the blast of a 200kg bomb and fuel explosion. This is actually a fairly simple feat to calc.

All you need to know is that TNT, which is what most of the explosive materials in the bunker busters in this feat used, has an explosion that expands at around 6,940 m/s, which is roughly equal to Mach 20.3951. Mugino used her rocket arm and escaped the 500 meter range blast from the center of the explosion, therefor making her Mach 20.3951 as well.

Next we have Accelerator's speed feat in volume 22 where he had turned into an angel and instantly ascended 8000 meters into the air in order to stop Fiamma from causing a large amount of damage to the Eurasian continent. This is a bit more of a rough calc since I interpreted the term Immediately to literally mean 1 second.

Spoiler for Volume 22:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Volume 22

Last Order’s small hands stretched up into the sky toward Accelerator.

But she could not reach him.

Accelerator was already floating a few meters up.

Convinced that he had done the right thing, Accelerator flapped his white wings. His 100 meter wings used more than just the power of the wind. They also converted some more unknown energy into lift. He emitted no force down at the earth, but he still shot up like a bullet.

In an instant, Accelerator reached a point 3000 meters up and scattered the thick clouds that were hanging in the sky.

At the same time, the fortress in the heavens made its move.

The mass of golden power that was being taken in from above and stored underneath was mercilessly thrown downwards. Accelerator could feel the pressure on his cheek as a stinging numbness. Just like his white wings, that power truly was not a normal power. Most likely, his reflection would not work on it. It would just pierce straight through like when he had been defeated by Aiwass.

But so what?

Accelerator moved his white wings even more and his speed of ascent shot up. With no tricks up his sleeve, he headed straight for the falling golden mass. There was a slight smile on his lips.

(I see.)

Accelerator finally realized it.

(So this is what a fight to protect something is like.)

Immediately afterwards, the two massive powers clashed at an altitude of 8000 meters.

By flying up to a height of 8000 meters in 1 second Accelerator would be traveling at Mach 23.50958. So this one was another pretty easy calc.

___________________________________

Next we have Mjolnir's Mach 36.9287 feat
(credit to Zatano from Naruto Forums for calcing this)

Spoiler for NT Volume 2:

Quote:

It was moving in a giant circle that had a radius of 20 km. Bluish-white sparks flew along seeming to trail it. Like that, the Throwing Hammer drew a clean circle. Its speed increased. It was not fixed in place. It rapidly moved up like the curve of a quadratic function. In just the 10 seconds Kanzaki had been watching, the enemy's actual form had disappeared from view, leaving only the giant bluish-white glowing circle visible.

It was much too ominous a phenomenon to be referred to as an angel's halo.

From the flow of magic power, the circular symbol, and the Thor's hammer form the magician existed in, Kanzaki was able to guess what was coming next.

She unhesitatingly fled.

A bluish-white beam of light appeared coming from below and heading up as if to stab into the heavens. It shot straight through the center of that 20 kilometer radius circle.

Immediately afterwards, a third of Radiosonde Castle was utterly annihilated.

It says its going in a circle so with a radius of 20 km so this is easy.

God tier. He basically moves(horizontally) at the speed of light with his HR.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Javiersansano

On another subject, can Accelerator update his Persona Reality to redirect any newly encoutered spell A.K.A new vector? Wouldn't this give him a good chance against othinus?

Not yet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Javiersansano

And if she gets Gungnir, Othinus would have a 100% of victory? I refuse to believe that she'll become "invincible" with Gungnir... I mean, Fiamma achieved la persona superiore a dio, and still lost, and let's not forget that Aleister crushed Fiamma easily

It would be 180% victory though. And Fiamma lost because he used his power the wrong way, and Aleister fought against very weakened Fiamma who lost his HR, the SoB, Index's remote control, damaged by grimoire contamination, etc.

You know, against a guy who's different from normal espers and can move even after having all the cells of his body equally damaged, a guy who can sprout wings in a lobotomised state and a guy who can generate brains at will ... that's not much of a weakness anymore.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilfriback

- Gunha barely reaches 2 times the speed of sound. Saints can go several times the speed of the sound enough to be called godlike speed while leaving ridiculous amouns of magical energy explosions as aftereffects.

While no accurate numbers had ever been given to Saints' speed which leaves it open to debate, Gunha is crazy powerful enough to generate incredible amount of damage with a single wave of his hand, enough guts to tank Miko-chin's strongest attack like nothing. Right now, guys of Acqua's level might be a bit too much but Kanzaki and Brunhild don't have something that'd leave him far behind. + the future Majin-level potential = he's a guy who's supposed to be Ollerus-level with just more understanding of his powers

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilfriback

- Accelerator can'r reflect the spell, only turn it into basic energy.

hahem, I put the interesting part in bold :

Quote:

Originally Posted by posted above

he could partially reflect the wings of a Christian Archangel once and completely disintegrated a weaker level spell

I love Touma's dilemma. Gremlin obviously wants Fraulein alive, and removing her from her prision undoubtedly helps their purpose. On the other hand, he cannot trust Ollerus and company not to kill her given the chance (we know he wouldn't, but Touma doesn't). Of course, being who he is, he cannot sacrifice Fraulein himself to save AC. His only choice gambling with Thor, despite the huge disadvantage he would put himself in.

Well, if Touma's actions put Ollerus in a bad spot it would be just his fault, he should have sent Kaori to him if he wanted Touma's trust.

Now, Thor is a bit too forceful, he is like: "C'mon, you let yourself be used by Levinia and Kagun, so why not by me?"... but I guess it worked.

... And speaking of him. He's supposed to be Thor, but he behaves more like Loki.

Theoretically, Accelerator can reflect ANYTHING as long as he can understand the concept and apply it to his powers. I figure that if he was set in the Harry Potter universe with his powers intact, he can reflect all the dark spells thrown at him.

Theoretically, Accelerator can reflect ANYTHING as long as he can understand the concept and apply it to his powers. I figure that if he was set in the Harry Potter universe with his powers intact, he can reflect all the dark spells thrown at him.

except that, IF I'm not mistaken, in order to "understand" the concept behind said power (aka, adding the specific spell to the data base that already has momentum, electricity, heat, etc...), he has to make contact to it.

IF he was thrown into Harry Potter's world, he would die from Avada Kedvara... unless he identifies said spell with his wings... I guess?