People have fun knocking Hyundai. I just helped someone buy a loaded 2011 Sonata and let me tell you, this is a very nice and well built car. It is not just the features, the car itself drives quite well and they are pretty darn good looking both inside and out. It is definitely not a BMW or Benz, but the gap sure is closing. Oh, and the newer ones can sure teach BMW a thing or two about reliability at less than half the price.

+1. That Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8 Track is quite a beauty and a hoot to drive!

People have fun knocking Hyundai. I just helped someone buy a loaded 2011 Sonata and let me tell you, this is a very nice and well built car. It is not just the features, the car itself drives quite well and they are pretty darn good looking both inside and out. It is definitely not a BMW or Benz, but the gap sure is closing. Oh, and the newer ones can sure teach BMW a thing or two about reliability at less than half the price.

I agree, I had a Genesis Sedan with the 3.8 V6 and it was an awesome car to drive. Is it as good as a 5, no but its close and for less then 3 series prices its a great car.

I would drive that thing as a daily driver anytime. I am actually considering getting a used one when the M3 comes in to split time between the two.

Personally I love the angel eyes; however, that is not my main issue. Both MB and BMW put sub-standard/inadequate lights in their base lighting package (MB is probably worse here). IMO this was a conscious decision, to make the upgraded lights more appealing and thus the up-charge. Up until I think last year, you needed to buy the whole premium 2 package (at $6k ish) to get xenon head lights in an E350, and the standard lights (even with P1) are just plain crap. Audi on the other hand charges for their LEDs but the standard lights without the LEDs I believe are good.

What makes their base lighting package sub-standard and inadequate? They may not be as nice as HIDs, but I would guess that most people with the standard headlights are driving around at night without any problems.

Again, I don't have direct experience with BMW as mine has xenon a, just going from what I have read. OTOH P1 e350's get crap. I drove them one after another p1 vs P2 the same route. It is amazing what you don't know you are missing until you have something to compare against and can actually see things.

What makes their base lighting package sub-standard and inadequate? They may not be as nice as HIDs, but I would guess that most people with the standard headlights are driving around at night without any problems.

If you wanted a car to just get the basics done you would buy a Honda Civic not a BMW. HID's are fast becoming the standard for automotive lighting, something like that should be standard on a luxury vehicle.

hey! Kia has a quality selection of offerings. spring by your local dealer and see what in the 2014 Cadenza. Decent cars, can't beat that 10yr/100K mile powertrain (especially since you can turn it into a bumper to bumper if you like)

If you wanted a car to just get the basics done you would buy a Honda Civic not a BMW. HID's are fast becoming the standard for automotive lighting, something like that should be standard on a luxury vehicle.

And yet, I see many people out there with standard headlights on their luxury cars. Perhaps some luxury buyers see headlights as headlights, and not a status symbol.

Before I got my BMW my friend used to like the company now he says he will buy a luxury Japanese car. Mostly due to the fact that nothing comes standard on the cars. He says they cheap out on things like standard nav system, blue tooth, leather seats and hids.

I kinda agree that they need to step up the standard package. Also adding packages make the price soar. Also does a base 5 series come with much more tan base 3?

Read it and weep:
Total MSRP as Built $65,048
328 Sedan fully loaded with Maintenance and special wheel package:
My 328i Sedan Details
2.0-liter, inline 4-cylinder engine
Rear-wheel drive
See all standard features

I think what most American's don't understand is BMW isn't a luxury brand in Europe. To be competitive they have to sell cars at lower price points which means that have to offer choices rather than bundling everything but the kitchen sink in and having the price be a one size fits all. As you work your way up the BMW food chain you see more and more included equipment because those are luxury cars. Lexus is a pure luxury brand so they include more equipment often times because if you want a stripped car you buy a Toyota. Having said that it is a bit shocking to see how many things are optional for the IS models I passed on a IS 250 for my wife because the 06 model required NAV to get bluetooth.

Why would the starting price be 50k to get options? If brand "y" can add the option for $10 why cant BMW and vice versa?
Makes no sense that you think they would have to charge a ton more to include a few options.

If its a $10 part for Kia it should be a $10 part for BMW esp if its a part that comes from the same mfr in the background.
( nav units / headlight assy's / transmissions etc etc )

Either way in the end they can charge what they want they are BWM and just like the phone analogies to Apple.. These are luxury
brands that don't cater to the budget conscious person they cater to the higher end market so I get it just dont try to justify why they have to do it.

They do it cause they can! And rightfully so they built the brand but the consumers are getting shafted the softer BMW becomes and less and less of
what built that brand image is still included in a BMW.. ie cost cutting.

This thread is hilarious. All this moaning about "options", and it doesn't occur to you why newer BMW's are becoming "softer"? Here's a hint: *YOU*! The "I want everything and I want it CHEAP" consumer.

Think about it - you're saying on the one hand that BMW should become more "Kia-like", and on the other hand you complain that they are becoming too "Kia-like"!

This thread is hilarious. All this moaning about "options", and it doesn't occur to you why newer BMW's are becoming "softer"? Here's a hint: *YOU*! The "I want everything and I want it CHEAP" consumer.

Think about it - you're saying on the one hand that BMW should become more "Kia-like", and on the other hand you complain that they are becoming too "Kia-like"!

Before I got my BMW my friend used to like the company now he says he will buy a luxury Japanese car. Mostly due to the fact that nothing comes standard on the cars. He says they cheap out on things like standard nav system, blue tooth, leather seats and hids.

I kinda agree that they need to step up the standard package. Also adding packages make the price soar. Also does a base 5 series come with much more tan base 3?

I totally agree. It's kind of ridiculous that nav, leather, Bluetooth, etc is not standard.

The halogens really piss me off, too. I think that if xenons were standard, BMW would sell many more cars. A lot of people already think that BMWs look too much like every car on the road. If xenons were standard, people would see the angel eyes and think, "wow that's a cool looking car, I'll probably pick that over the Audi."