We have now officially reached the absolute and utter bottom as a running threat. No team on Earth sucks as bad as us at running the football. The only thing worse than 10 yards net rushing is 9 yards and I don't want to go there. So, how do we fix it?

1. New o-linemen? Too late this year. Besides, constantly changing up personnel on the line usually makes things worse.

2. New running back? Not a bad idea. Sit LJ and start Bennett for a while. Change of pace and let LJ's nads steam until he decides he's not getting his name mentioned enough on local TV.

3. Change the plays? Great idea. Traps? Stretches? Tosses? We have to get our runner in space somehow. It appears that, in terms of running plays, we now have our famous, traditional dive up the middle and the fancy draw/delay and that's about it. Maybe we should go nuts and run some misdirection at the line and see if trickerationism will help. Or, maybe let Wiegman and Waters pull once in a while - what a concept.

4. Play a fullback? Another good idea. I think we've proven that the single back formation isn't working very well and we're basically using our H-back as our primary pass receiver. Maybe jamming a fullback's head up the enemy's MLB's nose a few times will change our fortunes.

5. Just give up? Yet another very real possibility. Ignore the run completely. We're wasting valuable offensive playing time and precious downs trying to run anyhow. Just heave the rock as far as you can after the snap and hope that either Bowe or Gonzo can find it in the lights.

Do you guys have any other ideas?

FAX

Molitoth

10-07-2007, 08:52 PM

New plays.

Create competition on the O-Line.

the Talking Can

10-07-2007, 08:54 PM

wizardry

Rain Man

10-07-2007, 08:54 PM

Whenever I see a football movie, they start out bad and then it turns out that the coach knows a guy with tremendous talent who's working as a car mechanic or groundskeeper, and doesn't notice it until one day he sees the guy lift a car and move it or uproot a tree with his bare hands, and so he talks to the guy and it turns out that the guy won't play football because when he was sixteen he was on the football team and accidentally killed a kid with his bare hands by hitting him too hard, and the coach finally talks the guy into playing and then for the rest of the year they go undefeated, though they almost lose the Super Bowl and win on a huge hail mary fluke play. Maybe Herm should look around at his domestic help.

HonestChieffan

10-07-2007, 08:54 PM

Some thoughts I had today:

Dress Bennet in LJ's jerzy. Dont tell Larry and see what he says.

Put analgesic balm in LJ's jock.

Put different names on the OLine uniforms and tell Larry we have all new guys just for him. Make sure at least one name is hard to pronounce and ends in -ski. Every RB likes a big Polish guy on the line.

Stretch the defense with different formations, sweeps, traps, etc would be fine but who will diagram them for Herm?

keg in kc

10-07-2007, 08:57 PM

Do exactly what we did on the first drive, and try to make sure we score.

Then keep doing that.

Points on the board and a passing game that can move the chains will do wonders for a stagnant running game.

Easy 6

10-07-2007, 08:58 PM

#'s 2, 3 & 4.

Its amazing how many coaches quickly lose the "genius" label when they find themselves without talent.

I used to buy into Solari being a top O line guy, but this season convinces me that Roaf & Shields are what made him a "genius".

Lose Roaf...we struggle a bit with the run game, lose both Roaf & Shields...we struggle mightily.

But i also dont think its fair to put it all on Solari with the run, these guys seem to be playing with NO heart...Solari should be able to call ANYTHING & get better than TEN yards in the game.

DFB

10-07-2007, 08:59 PM

Whenever I see a football movie, they start out bad and then it turns out that the coach knows a guy with tremendous talent who's working as a car mechanic or groundskeeper, and doesn't notice it until one day he sees the guy lift a car and move it or uproot a tree with his bare hands, and so he talks to the guy and it turns out that the guy won't play football because when he was sixteen he was on the football team and accidentally killed a kid with his bare hands by hitting him too hard, and the coach finally talks the guy into playing and then for the rest of the year they go undefeated, though they almost lose the Super Bowl and win on a huge hail mary fluke play. Maybe Herm should look around at his domestic help.

Priest Holmes? :hmmm:

BigMeatballDave

10-07-2007, 09:01 PM

wizardryLMAO

siberian khatru

10-07-2007, 09:02 PM

Two words: Lotsa steroids.

FAX

10-07-2007, 09:04 PM

Do exactly what we did on the first drive, and try to make sure we score.

Then keep doing that.

Points on the board and a passing game that can move the chains will do wonders for a stagnant running game.

You are one of the wisest and most knowledgeable posters on the Planet, Mr. keg in kc. But, I'm not so sure that is the solution. We're talking 10 yards here. 10 yards in 4 quarters of play.

Assuming the running back is 5 feet tall and falls forward twice while holding the ball in his teeth, you pick up 8 or so yards. I don't think scoring a touchdown once in a while or using the short passing game to move the ball will magically transform us into a running threat.

I think there is something far more serious going on here.

FAX

kregger

10-07-2007, 09:07 PM

The FB option remains the best. We need a Lorenzo Neal type of punishing FB that will destroy LBs. Kris(Secret Weapon) Wilson doesn't move people, that is, when they actually let him play as a run supporting blocker.

HonestChieffan

10-07-2007, 09:07 PM

Based on that we just need a taller running back. See, the simple and easy answers are so often clouded by emotion.

Great job Mr Fax.

Mr. Laz

10-07-2007, 09:10 PM

6. Hire Mr. Fax as new offensive coordinator

FAX

10-07-2007, 09:10 PM

But i also dont think its fair to put it all on Solari with the run, these guys seem to be playing with NO heart...Solari should be able to call ANYTHING & get better than TEN yards in the game.

I'm not blaming Solari at this moment in time, Mr. scott free. Frankly, I don't want to alienate him because he's probably our second best lineman. Still, there's no question that we have a "predictability" problem. Unfortunately, we seem to have an "execution" problem as well.

The sad part is that we run the same play 20 times over and over and still can't get it perfected, you know, to the point we can gain more than 10 yards in a football game.

FAX

Baconeater

10-07-2007, 09:10 PM

Chuck Norris.

blueballs

10-07-2007, 09:11 PM

play a defense
not in the top 10

Easy 6

10-07-2007, 09:13 PM

I'm not blaming Solari at this moment in time, Mr. scott free. Frankly, I don't want to alienate him because he's probably our second best lineman.

FAX

LMAO LMAO LMAO

I know you didnt call him out Mr. FAX, i was just kinda speaking to the general vibe of the Planet.

KC Jones

10-07-2007, 09:13 PM

I'm solidly on board with Rainman's plan.

Dartgod

10-07-2007, 09:14 PM

Based on that we just need a taller running back. See, the simple and easy answers are so often clouded by emotion.

Great job Mr Fax.
I nominate this guy...

http://www.maniacworld.com/robert-wadlow-5.jpg

KC Jones

10-07-2007, 09:18 PM

I nominate this guy...

My wife's grandmother new that guy, grew up with him in Alton, Illinois.

Skip Towne

10-07-2007, 09:22 PM

Do exactly what we did on the first drive, and try to make sure we score.

Then keep doing that.

Points on the board and a passing game that can move the chains will do wonders for a stagnant running game.
Exactly right. Get Croyle slinging it all over the field and watch the running game open up.

blueballs

10-07-2007, 09:25 PM

there is the exception
to Rainman's step ladder rule

FringeNC

10-07-2007, 09:26 PM

Throw the ball every down -- at least until the safeties think pass first.

Easy 6

10-07-2007, 09:27 PM

Throw the ball every down -- at least until the safeties think pass first.

Its sure as hell working for the Pack right now...

FringeNC

10-07-2007, 09:28 PM

Its sure as hell working for the Pack right now...

And a few years ago it seemed like the Pats would throw about every down when they had a particularly bad running game.

FAX

10-07-2007, 09:29 PM

Look. Mr. Rainman saw a movie, okay? It wasn't real. Besides, we just paid our current running back 87 billion dollars so now we can't afford new custodian overalls let alone suit one of those guys up for a game.

Personally, I'm sort of liking the notion of wizardry. Or zombies, maybe. Zombies are hard to bring down without a gun.

FAX

jjchieffan

10-07-2007, 09:29 PM

Our Running game will look a lot better next week. Cincy is 29th against the run LJ will run for 150 yds.

Logical

10-07-2007, 09:30 PM

You are one of the wisest and most knowledgeable posters on the Planet, Mr. keg in kc. But, I'm not so sure that is the solution. We're talking 10 yards here. 10 yards in 4 quarters of play.

Assuming the running back is 5 feet tall and falls forward twice while holding the ball in his teeth, you pick up 8 or so yards. I don't think scoring a touchdown once in a while or using the short passing game to move the ball will magically transform us into a running threat.

I think there is something far more serious going on here.

FAX

Not to question your math Mr. FAX but I think that would be around 4 yards

kregger

10-07-2007, 09:30 PM

Exactly right. Get Croyle slinging it all over the field and watch the running game open up.Skip and keg have the answer. The afore mentioned o-line is actually creating a decent pocket to throw downfield. Huard just doesn't have the arm for that type of game. Croyle will light up defenses that are stuffing 8-9 in the box to stop our run.

Easy 6

10-07-2007, 09:31 PM

And a few years ago it seemed like the Pats would throw about every down when they had a particularly bad running game.

They sure did.

And had big success with it because they had a QB who could make EVERY throw, accurately.

Man, i hope Brodie starts from here on in.

Easy 6

10-07-2007, 09:32 PM

Croyle will light up defenses that are stuffing 8-9 in the box to stop our run.

Quoted For Truth.

FAX

10-07-2007, 09:34 PM

Not to question your math Mr. FAX but I think that would be around 4 yards

I was counting on good spots, Mr. Dr. Doom.

FAX

FAX

10-07-2007, 09:36 PM

Skip and keg have the answer. The afore mentioned o-line is actually creating a decent pocket to throw downfield. Huard just doesn't have the arm for that type of game. Croyle will light up defenses that are stuffing 8-9 in the box to stop our run.

I read somewhere that the Jags weren't consistently putting 8 or 9 guys in the box today. Untrue, Mr. kregger?

FAX

Skip Towne

10-07-2007, 09:39 PM

Our Running game will look a lot better next week. Cincy is 29th against the run LJ will run for 150 yds.
Thinks so? Jax was 26th before today.

Skip Towne

10-07-2007, 09:43 PM

I read somewhere that the Jags weren't consistently putting 8 or 9 guys in the box today. Untrue, Mr. kregger?

FAX
No, but their safeties were creeping up to support the run. They have a much smaller field to cover with Huard. Croyle will sling it over their head if they do that. There is no sense in having a fast receiver if your QB can't get the ball to them.

keg in kc

10-07-2007, 10:01 PM

You are one of the wisest and most knowledgeable posters on the Planet, Mr. keg in kc. But, I'm not so sure that is the solution. We're talking 10 yards here. 10 yards in 4 quarters of play.

Assuming the running back is 5 feet tall and falls forward twice while holding the ball in his teeth, you pick up 8 or so yards. I don't think scoring a touchdown once in a while or using the short passing game to move the ball will magically transform us into a running threat.I didn't say anything about a short passing game. We're already doing that with Dazzling Damon and his Dumpoffs of Doom.

That kind of passing game, in my opinion, hurts our ability to run the football. We have to get safeties out of the box; 4-yard swing passes and wheel routes to the fullback are not going to do it. If that's how we want to attack the problem, then we need to get Wilson and Dunn off the field, go three- and four-wide every down and create a running game through misdirection. That's not what we do, of course, and not what we will do. We try to be run first, with no deep threat, be it straight drop-back or playaction.

What I'm talking about is a deep passing game, 15+ yard routes that will force the safeties back off the LoS. That will not only open up the running game, but open the middle of the field, as well, in the passing game.

As it stands right now, defenses know that we're not going to go deep. So they sit on all the short and intermediate routes and focus on keeping everything in front of them. What we should be doing is trying to get behind them (which we did during the first drive). Then the safeties (and the linebackers, in all likelihood) are playing back on their heels, and we're headed in the right direction.

That's the simple answer, of course. As with most things, it's a little more complex in practice...

bringbackmarty

10-07-2007, 10:04 PM

Fix the running game by getting some fresh meat in there at both our skill positions and on the line itself. Bring holmes on the 53. split it between him and bennett. hand the ball off to smith 5 times a game, put larry on the inactive list until week 8, let the hamstring heal. Put in niswanger, croyle, and stallings. Run traps, draws, and misdirectons. Cut Jason Dunn, because it's too predictable with him in there. When he lines up, you know we are going to run probably to his side. We will get spanked if we make the playoffs anyways with our current running game. Of course that isn't going to happen. We have to develop some young players, even if they are backups for future draft picks and free agents.

RJ

10-07-2007, 10:14 PM

Whenever I see a football movie, they start out bad and then it turns out that the coach knows a guy with tremendous talent who's working as a car mechanic or groundskeeper, and doesn't notice it until one day he sees the guy lift a car and move it or uproot a tree with his bare hands, and so he talks to the guy and it turns out that the guy won't play football because when he was sixteen he was on the football team and accidentally killed a kid with his bare hands by hitting him too hard, and the coach finally talks the guy into playing and then for the rest of the year they go undefeated, though they almost lose the Super Bowl and win on a huge hail mary fluke play. Maybe Herm should look around at his domestic help.

That's so crazy it just might work.....

kregger

10-07-2007, 10:15 PM

I read somewhere that the Jags weren't consistently putting 8 or 9 guys in the box today. Untrue, Mr. kregger?

FAX FAX, what it looked like to me was a telegraphed running game as much as Huard's telegraphed passes. As mentioned on here, Dunn provides nothing other than a "here we come" body. I almost want to see if Grigsby can bang somebody because I am tired of the Kris Wilson experiment. He can catch alright, but he sucks in the running game.

HonestChieffan

10-07-2007, 10:15 PM

Look. Mr. Rainman saw a movie, okay? It wasn't real. Besides, we just paid our current running back 87 billion dollars so now we can't afford new custodian overalls let alone suit one of those guys up for a game.

Personally, I'm sort of liking the notion of wizardry. Or zombies, maybe. Zombies are hard to bring down without a gun.

FAX

But I was under the impression the zombies left when the midgets moved in under the stadium.

Easy 6

10-07-2007, 10:16 PM

That's so crazy it just might work.....

ROFL ...that line is 100% PERFECT for the corny movie Rainman envisions.

KCJohnny

10-07-2007, 11:06 PM

We have now officially reached the absolute and utter bottom as a running threat. No team on Earth sucks as bad as us at running the football. The only thing worse than 10 yards net rushing is 9 yards and I don't want to go there. So, how do we fix it?

1. New o-linemen? Too late this year. Besides, constantly changing up personnel on the line usually makes things worse.

Personnel is definitley part of the problem. But there are not many options this late in the season. Ya have to dance with the one that brought ya. Terry is worse than Black.

2. New running back? Not a bad idea. Sit LJ and start Bennett for a while. Change of pace and let LJ's nads steam until he decides he's not getting his name mentioned enough on local TV.

LJ is not the problem. That's obvious when you break the game tape down. LJ is still a PB RB. In fact, KC has 3 PB RBs. Next?

3. Change the plays? Great idea. Traps? Stretches? Tosses? We have to get our runner in space somehow. It appears that, in terms of running plays, we now have our famous, traditional dive up the middle and the fancy draw/delay and that's about it. Maybe we should go nuts and run some misdirection at the line and see if trickerationism will help. Or, maybe let Wiegman and Waters pull once in a while - what a concept.

I was on the play-calling-is-the-problem bandwagon but Solari seems to have changed his R2P2 approach with the pass-to-set-up-the-run. Half of the playbook is shut tight because we can't run.

4. Play a fullback? Another good idea. I think we've proven that the single back formation isn't working very well and we're basically using our H-back as our primary pass receiver. Maybe jamming a fullback's head up the enemy's MLB's nose a few times will change our fortunes.

Now you're talking. Tony Richardson was an all-world FB who opened up holes for the good (Holmes, Johnson), the bad (Bam Morris, Mike Cloud) and the ugly (Donnell Bennett - my all-time favorite Chiefs RB). I love Kris Wilson as an H-back/TE, but he's not the road grader that T-Rich was. We need a real FB who understands blocking assignments and can plow Mike-backers. Boomer?

5. Just give up? Yet another very real possibility. Ignore the run completely. We're wasting valuable offensive playing time and precious downs trying to run anyhow. Just heave the rock as far as you can after the snap and hope that either Bowe or Gonzo can find it in the lights.

No way. This O is loaded with weapons. Just need chemistry.

Do you guys have any other ideas?

1. Solari needs to do some quality assurance checks on the OL coach. Solari was promoted to OC because of the Chiefs' dominance up front. Rich Baldinger of Metro Sports did film analysis showing several of the Chiefs OLmen missing assignments - simple stuff - reads and responsibilities.

2. Simplify. All the motions and shifts are doing NOTHING. Get the OL and H-backs/TEs to stop thinking so much and start driving defenders down the field. That's what LJ was talking about last week. Too much thinking. Do the fundamentals well and the schemes will take care of themselves. Marty's #1 rule: don't beat yourself. That's what our OL is doing.

3. Use Bowe in the running game. Have him run the reverse or the WR screen. He makes something happen every time he touches the ball.