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Can't we try to get some kind of standard layout for datafeeds. Now every merchant has it's own (terrible) way of creating. If we have some kind of standard, we can try to persuade the merchant to use “Standard ABW feed.”

I have seen :

csv files, txt files, zip files
With fieldnames, without fieldnames
With ID, without ID
Ready to download, created online
Thumbnails only
No categories
No descriptions
Or created online in browser and then “View source and save as txt file”

My favourite is zip file, pipe delimited and find and replace ID.

If a merchant wants to update daily, this is also the best way. He only has to create one zip file daily for all affiliates. By using find and replace a merchant doesn’t have to create live feeds for including ID’s anymore.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Can't we try to get some kind of standard layout for datafeeds. Now every merchant has it's own (terrible) way of creating. If we have some kind of standard, we can try to persuade the merchant to use “Standard ABW feed.”
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have tab-delimited but it wouldn't be a problem if that changed to pipe. And I end up find/replacing my ID all the time anyway (so all my CJ sales aren't credited to the same site) so that's no problem.

With the Name meaning, the product's name. Lastupdated lets me know if the merchant has actually changed anything, and if so, which products are new or have changed info. Unchanged products keep the old Lastupdated date, like in the CJ Feeds. (I find it irritating to run an entire 1000+ product feed and then find out that only 10 things have been changed!)

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> If a merchant wants to update daily, this is also the best way. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Only if something's actually changed, IMO. Otherwise it causes needless w*rk when used with nonautomated systems. Also those who only change a couple of things out of a massive feed should keep their changes to themselves until they accumulate enough changes to make it worth bothering with. (In most cases. If some bestseller goes out of stock or a new high-demand item comes in, then I want to know right away!)

But all in all, a standardized feed would be great! It's a pain to have to make a special template for every merchant that's not in CJ.

In my experience with merchants, some will take your suggestions and make changes accordingly, I will not take credit for some but I have emailed many at CJ and some to my amazement added categories the very next day. Then the others usually never respond or indicate they will look into it. Those usually outsource their feeds or their inhouse tech team always seem to be too busy to address the issue.

So I suggest in addition to setting up some sort of template for feeds, we also get a group of us to email the AM's letting them know our suggestions. One email can be shrugged off easily but dozens might light a small fire under their butts to get us what we want

I mixed the two threads. To get a standard, some suggestions to start with. It is good to tell what’s wrong, but making a suggestion is a first step to get us out of the mess. The future will be worse otherwise, because many more feeds are coming. My suggestions :

The ready for download feed :

A zip file from a csv file
Pipe delimited
Without ID and use find and replace for “AFFILIATEIDHERE”
Name : Feedname-date.zip
Format : Fields in quotes or not ?
No renaming of the same items / pictures or changing url’s at the merchants sites (Customers getting a 404)
Fieldnames : One word, no hyphens or underscores or spaces

The feed content and suggestions for fieldnames :

* = Required fields

SKU Unique if possible Name * Product name. Capitalized. NOT ALL CAPS. Max. 50 characters. If possible unique Category * SubCategory If available, use “Sub-” (or even Sub-Sub) instead of something like Categories-2 RetailPrice * List price SalePrice Sale price (Discount price) Description * No links included without aff. ID, like “For sizes, click here” Only if it is a dead end street (no links to the site of the merchant). ShortDescription ImageURL * Full size. Max. 300 x 300 pixels? No enlarged thumbnails which not being sharp ThumbnailURL * Not resized large pictures which being not sharp Fieldnames * The ones who don’t use them, can delete. BuyURL * Others like manufacturer, sizes, warranty, shipping (in days), InStock (Yes / No only. No other descriptions like Y/N), Lastupdated, Brand, etc

I have invited several of my merchants (see post in their forums) to join this discussion. Maybe you can ask yours to help getting some kind of standard ABW datafeed.

Thanks, Uphill, for inviting me here. Here is how we arrived at our datafeed structure currently.

We are a CJ merchant, and CJ dictates how we deliver our information to them. So we create a file to ftp to CJ - we do this weekly. CJ creates their datafeed with our information.

I take that same file and FTP it to Chris Ditty for ezDatafeed. He creates our external feed based on the same information we send to CJ.

We have information that CJ requires, but not all the fields they provide. If it's not in there, we can't easily get it.

I don't think this really helps your cause of getting a standard datafeed with standard info (and I think this would be tremendously great for all of you - I can only imagine how annoying it must be to work with many different feeds) but hopefully it will give you some insight as to why we do it the way we do.

I'll make sure CDitty comments on this thread, too. I know he does datafeeds for a good many ABW merchants with more on the way. (By the way, I LOVE his service!!)

I made a small script that generates affiliates feeds for either the inhouse program or CJ program, all they have do is enter their affiliate ID and select the version of the feed they want it for, CJ or indie.

Right now it generates a .txt file that you would right click and save to your computer. It would be pretty simple to add more fields to the form to select other options like how you want it seperated or if you want it in a .txt or .csv file as well.

Also, the field names at the top of the feeds wouldn't be all that difficult to change either. Just will need to know when the final "Standards" are in

Patrice, your feed is already close to a ABW standard feed as I had in mind. It is pipe delimited, ID is find and replace, all categories are included, no hyphens, underscores or spaces in the fieldnames, thumbnails and large images. But you do have many fields which are ALL CAPS.

I checked it out, and the name and description issues are already known here and are being addressed and will be fixed in time. I don't know how long, though - but they are aware of it and are working to fix it.

The keywords in uppercase is probably not going to change. This info comes straight out of our database and our database requires that they be upper case. Odd, huh?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Can't we try to get some kind of standard layout for datafeeds<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Wouldn't this make life simpler? In many ways yes, but given the independent nature of affiliates and merchants, I would be surprised to see it happen any time soon.

A network like CJ can demand participants hold to a single data template but since there are more independent feeds everyday, some better than others, agreement seems unlikely and perhaps undesirable.

I've never seen a CJ datafeed but I've heard merchants here respond to complaints here that their feed layout was dictated by CJ and they couldn't possibly make requested improvements, however inspired. That's my fear with this suggestion, that feeds become watered down to accomodate a cookie-cutter approach and in effect, limit their usefulness. (And, some might argue, combined with a single template become the Holy Grail of search engine spammers!)

To create a standard, by definition, there must be limits and controls. Some of what you suggest makes good programming sense, but I think you're asking for some very arbitrary limits to be set. Who's to say what the ideal image size is? The merchant is the best judge. 300x300 may be entirely too small for a particular product. Artwork comes to mind. A merchant's product line may require more category breakdowns than others, sometimes even more than 3 layers. Merchant-specific fields must be accomodated.

I realize your list is offered as a suggestion/starting point but likely reflects only your personal needs and preferences. Mine might differ entirely. I seen no benefit in calling a pipe delimited file a CSV file, (Comma Separated Value - a completely different format.) I see no problem with underscores in any fieldname. A product name may require more than 50 characters. No need for any URL's if they all contain exactly the same data except the sku.(URL's bloat a database unnecessarily.)

You last item, "No other descriptions like..." turns me off completely. Why limit the creative ways a product being portrayed simply to make an easy to use database. I can see the fight between the Sales and the IT departments now.

It's more imortant to me that the the database be clean, complete and uniform within itself.

Thanks for the invite Uphill-- I love the the idea personally. Standards make it easier for everyone.

I would love to change a lot of things about all three of our datafeeds, and comply with anything and everything that makes it easier for affiliates to sell.

Our feed is definitely inadequate. (I know because you guys told me from about the first day we had a forum on here... )

Thus far, it's been impossible for me to edit our datafeed. I know you guys deserve categories, descriptions, and every other bell/whistle-- but I can't get them to you, yet.

I am doing a few things besides trying to get our tech. dept. to change the datafeed. First off, I'm learning Perl-- and I intend to get that script (the one that exports the datafeeds) changed one way or another, and I've joined our programs to test them for myself. Believe me, I feel your pain for lack of information. I'm attempting to aquire the information I need through some other tools-- but I will get the information.

Believe me when I say it's not a matter of 'if', but 'when'.

Good job leading the charge though. There was a time when (shudder) I thought our datafeed was acceptable.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Why limit the creative ways a product being portrayed simply to make an easy to use database. I can see the fight between the Sales and the IT departments now. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm a big fan of datafeeds and have to admit I truely enjoy the way Beverages and More handles their data. My favorite part is they give me a URL from which I can download the data without logging into any system like FTP or CJ. This allows me to create a PHP script to read this information every day to import the data into mysql via crontab. I haven't used any CJ feeds because I believe I need to physically log into their system, download the file manually and put it somewhere. This is much too much work and I want to make sure each one of my websites is fully automatic. To be honest, if I can't automate it I won't use the datafeed. That's just my 2 cents.

Thanks Uphill for the invite....i finally have a few minutes to post on here.

From an AM's point of view, I'm managing 5 programs, 2 of which are on BF, the rest indies.

On the BF programs, I have the BFP feed and Surplus coming soon. I want to have BF run with these because it's better for everyone concerened - business wise.

Layout wise, the Surplus feed will be made from scratch, I can certainly adapt and make it as close to a standard as possible. No problems there.

The BFP is another story, that comes the way it is, its not a widely used feed, and the industry is very complex. Just imagine all the different makes, brands and different parts available for each vehicle. It's massive. The upside, if you see it that way, it's that there are only a dozen or so affiliates using that feed on the web - the entire web. I don't think i can modify this feed much.

The 5dollarsoftware feed is very doable and I can twist and turn to your heart's content. But we are talkking 1,000 sku's, all same price. Easy to manipulate

Superstore's feed is being improved and we can standardize when we make the changes. I have control of that, we can manipulate to a certain degree. That is being done in Q1, Jan - Feb.

The Betty feed is a huge feed and we are still looking at segmenting the data to make it easier for you to work with. It's already divided into 2 categories, you just need to separate. BTW, the new updated feed will be live tonight. We update and refresh the feed every quarter.

So basically, as cditty said, it's not that easy and I tend to agree with the earlier post, we don't want a cookie cutter result for the SERPs

This isn't really a standard but a gripe. I use feeds from both Befree and Performics. There's only a few places from CJ I use feeds for tho.

Why?

Because I can't seem to hit the magical 10k of sales in one month there. Doesn't CJ know that if I used feeds I would be well beyond that range? The best I have been able to do so far is 8k. A lot of the sales I get aren't big sales so it takes a long time to reach that 10k. If I had two months I could do it. Am I the only one that has to face this hurdle?

now my standards:

I prefer text feeds with Product Name, Product URL, Product Image, and Description. And please no descriptions that are just the name of the product

I'm not sure if I'm totally clear on using feeds from BF, CJ and Performics. How do these work exactly? How do I access them? Do I need to log into the system and download something, and if so is there a way to access this information via FTP? Is it all offered in one big file that I can parse? I've only found individual product links and really don't want to spend the time to pick and choose one product at a time. Thanks for any insight you can offer me!!

I have to tell you this, despite everyone's best intentions. There are feeds that are fine the way they are. This is for two reasons.

First, they may work well "Out of the box," and second, many of us have everything automated.

An example of a great "Out of the box" feed would be Betty Mills. At better than 40,000 records, it's a big one. But, it ran perfectly the first time for me, unlike others. So I shudder when I hear it might be changed. Perhaps it can at least be generated by the same folks that are doing it now, they seem to know what they are doing. I also hope that you leave a version of it in one piece for those of us that can handle it. IMHO.

I'd add that the column header information should be as easily discernable as the fields. I absolutely hate tab delimied datafeeds and even more so when I get a header such as: product category manufactuer component description.

Excuse me, is that 1 field, 2 fields, 3 or more. Tabs do not always show as tabbed. This is why I much prefer the use of pipe feeds. I dont want to have to guess what the columns are any more than I want to guess what fields are which. Please make things clear at the start.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Snib:
I'm not sure if I'm totally clear on using feeds from BF, CJ and Performics. How do these work exactly? How do I access them? Do I need to log into the system and download something, and if so is there a way to access this information via FTP? Is it all offered in one big file that I can parse? I've only found individual product links and really don't want to spend the time to pick and choose one product at a time. Thanks for any insight you can offer me!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Snib,

All Networks (CJ,BF,LS,Performics etc.) provide Datafeeds via FTP to Affiliates, but pretty much none is giving it out for free to anybody.

You always get it for free, if the network sees you as a "high" performing affiliate.

I know that CJ is providing it also to "low" performing affiliates, but they have to pay for it.

What's considered low or high differs from Network to Network.

It does not hurt to contact each Network and ask them.

Those limitations by the Networks are understandable, but merchants do not always like it.

That's the reason why several Merchants (such as BevMo.com ) provide Datafeeds to any of there affiliates outside the Network interface.

I think a standardized Product Data feed is in general a good Idea, but I have my doubts that it will ever happen. I think a semi-standardized approach is more reasonable, meaning that a Feed has to meet certain criteria and is then may be extended if needed.

Sorry to say that, but I think that those criteria have to be defined by the Networks.
It is not going to happen if the networks do not agree on that.
Believe me an AM will have a hard time to go to his Boss asking for Development Time and Money to develop the “same” Data Feed twice, one for the Network and one following the semi-standard.

The Format should be XML to be more flexible. Comma delimited Files have too much restrictions. It becomes especially a problem when the Information for an individual product is too much (too much characters).
Keep in mind, that it should be flexible.

I think a Data Feed must meet following basic criteria.

1.
You must be able to identify the merchant for a product if the Feed contains Data for multiple Merchants. The Name is not enough, if the name can be changed.
It should be a numeric.

2.
You must be able to identify a specific product of a merchant. Every Merchant must have some kind of unique identifier for his products (SKU)

3.
An Affiliate Link to the Product must be included, with Affiliate ID or a placeholder for the Affiliate ID.

4.
The Affiliate must be able to generate a category structure based on information provided in the file. You need the Category where the product is attached to plus its parent to be able to do that. A Category Name is not always enough to uniquely identify a specific category or sub-category (for example category “others” under “white wine” is not the same as “others” under “red wines”).
So a unique Category ID for the category itself and its parent should be provided in addition to their names.

5. A Product Name must be provided.

The following information should be in the semi-standard but must not be provided (empty values) by the Merchant.

Product Description
Link to Product Thumbnail
Link to Large Product Image
List Price
Current Sale Price
Current Sale Price Expiration
Manufacturer Name
Manufacturer Product ID (such as ISBN No for books)
Country of Origin
HTML Code/ Link to automatically add item to Merchants Basket
Purchase Restrictions (just Text)
Product Availability (Inventory in Units or at least a general indicator such as low, high etc.)

You might wander why I make Description, Image Links and Price Optional.
Some Merchant’s can’t or don’t want to provide those information.
To be honest, we are tempted to remove the price from our Feeds because we get calls from some Customers every day why they don’t get the advertised price.
It comes out that they came through an affiliate site which did not update our products and still showed an on sale price from several months ago.

I added all the other Fields because I think they are useful for Affiliates and has the side affect that merchants who might never even thought about it might provide the information if they see it in the specifications.

There must be the option to extend the Optional Fields, because it really makes sense for certain merchants. Out of standard fields might have to be indicated by a specific prefix or something like that.

How the Feed is provided (FTP, HTTP Request etc.) should not be standardized at all.