Yes, it is different. This is the sub, not retail. We pay premium for the sub. We commit to a sub. We pay shipping for the sub. I expect more and higher quality out of the sub.

This sub, to me, has absolutely nothing do with the previous 20 waves of figures. Why? Because the only way I can get these figures is to be a part of the sub. The other 20 waves I had all sorts of avenues.

Did they makes some awesome figures with minimal tooling? Absolutely.

Can they make some awesome figures with new tooling. Yes. And I don't want to be told no simply for that reason, as part of the sub.

If I don't get figures I want, it's no sweat off my back, I won't order the sub in year 2. So it's all good. I just don't want to hear a cop out when, no matter what the reason why is, they let the sub go through.

Because people can say "well, Mattel is doing this for us, we didn't hit then numbers, but they did it anyway"

that's great...but mattel chose to do that. so don't throw it in our face with "well, we know the sub is exclusive, but , gosh darn it, we just can't do a lot of new tooling for this exclusive line

j1h15233 wrote:

It's not that different from what they've done since DCUC started though. How many 100% new tooling figures did we get in the last 200 something figures? Are there even 10? They don't need 100% new tooling to make fantastic figures.

I don't know about you, but the price of these figures is cheaper than what I was paying at retail or through BBTS so it's not a premium and you don't have to be a part of the sub to get them. You can buy them on the sale day just like MOTUC.

Why do you feel as though the sub needs to be bigger and better in comparison to the retail line?

For me, the sub is a chance to get that many more figures each year. Figures that might not otherwise have a shot at retail.

I expect them to be put out with the same level of quality and prep as any other DCUC figure I buy whether it is in a store, through an etailer, or part of the sub.

By saying "since they aren't making 100% new sculpts, everything is going to be the cheap way out" makes it seem as though you are already looking for an excuse to get out.

If, at the time of renewal, you haven't gotten a mix of figures that are to your liking, and the quality has been sub-par in comparison to the other DCU figures that you are able to acquire, then sure, I don't blame you for bailing. But to sit here now, before anything has even been offered up for purchase and shipping, it just seems like your are being overly harsh before there's even been a chance to show you what can be done.

Not to call you out and make this personal (and please understand I am NOT trying to make this personal), but I just felt that I had to present an opposing argument.

I've never had an issue finding the figures at retail. Even wave 5 was abundant to me. And while I realize that wasn't the case for most people, in theory that's how it should have been. To me, since there are products at retail still, the sub should be "better and more exclusive" figures.

I think the exclusive part (through the figures announced) has been on. Better is TBD.

j1h15233 wrote:

It's not that different from what they've done since DCUC started though. How many 100% new tooling figures did we get in the last 200 something figures? Are there even 10? They don't need 100% new tooling to make fantastic figures.

I don't know about you, but the price of these figures is cheaper than what I was paying at retail or through BBTS so it's not a premium and you don't have to be a part of the sub to get them. You can buy them on the sale day just like MOTUC.

If is an option to get more figures, I agree. But then I ask myself "why can't we get these figures are retail"

I then look at the 2 waves announced for retail, and then think "man, mattel isn't even trying". So my thought imediately goes back to "well, I'm glad I got the sub, maybe I'll get some good and new/creative stuff through them".

The idea is that, sure, anyone could've signed up for the sub, but these were supposed to be a bit more exclusive. Figures they couldn't make at retail. And if they are already balking at new tooling on the sub line, then what's that leave us to get some of the other figures? And because we still have an outlet to get 6 inch DC figures, it seems this outlet should be at a higher standard.

As for an excuse to get out...I really didn't want to get in. But I bit on it anyway to try to help some of you guys get figures, and to hope that we'd get something decent too. I just dont have a ton of faith in mattel right now is all. And I don't think I'm being harsh. I think i'm being very realistic. There have been a lot of people not so happy with the way the last 3-4 waves of DCUC were handled, and with the announcement of the first two retail waves. Add that to the fact that a lot of other people are already complaining about "multiple heads" for Jay Garrick, the size on Atrocitous...etc...well, I'm saying the jury is out.

bnjmnrlyr wrote:

Why do you feel as though the sub needs to be bigger and better in comparison to the retail line?

For me, the sub is a chance to get that many more figures each year. Figures that might not otherwise have a shot at retail.

I expect them to be put out with the same level of quality and prep as any other DCUC figure I buy whether it is in a store, through an etailer, or part of the sub.

By saying "since they aren't making 100% new sculpts, everything is going to be the cheap way out" makes it seem as though you are already looking for an excuse to get out.

If, at the time of renewal, you haven't gotten a mix of figures that are to your liking, and the quality has been sub-par in comparison to the other DCU figures that you are able to acquire, then sure, I don't blame you for bailing. But to sit here now, before anything has even been offered up for purchase and shipping, it just seems like your are being overly harsh before there's even been a chance to show you what can be done.

Not to call you out and make this personal (and please understand I am NOT trying to make this personal), but I just felt that I had to present an opposing argument.

And for the record, whether I buy the sub each year or not, I hope it goes on for years and years and everyone gets the figures they want. I hope Mattel makes enough money to give us new tooling and all sorts of awesome figures.

I've just become a bit more of a tightwad with my money. I want (what I feel) is a better product. Better bang for my buck.

So cheaper isn't always better...but I want feel that my money is being well spent is all. One reason why I didn't pick up some of the last few waves of DCUC (QC and price still being an issue).

I'll be happy if they have the same level of quality as the retail waves, but I'm not going to expect them to be better. I'm in the "hey, I get to have more figures this year" camp, rather than "I'm paying more, so I better get more."

It's be nice to get more, but the way prices have been going up lately, I don't think we're gonna get it. Look at Jay and Starman. Basic bucks with new heads. Atocitus has some new parts, but probably less than 50% (I'm not a parts expert like some on the board). I'll be surprised if Ivy isn't just modern Cheetah with new hands, feet, and a head.

I'm sincerely happy just to have the line continue in some form, at least until some major gaps have been filled in.

_________________Leave it up to a billionaire to buy the world some time --- Tony Stark

Possibly, but I'm somewhat braced for that. Likewise, they have the opportunity to blow me out of the water. I don't expect too much, and I don't expect too little. I'm just gauging my opinions on some of the decisions they've made at retail that maybe they do have control over (I realize that retail and this sub are different)...but I can always hope.

If we get the same level of qualify we got at retail, not only will I not buy next year, but I'll be hugely disappointed. I did not have one wave go by that didn't have at least some problem with QC (outside of the first two waves). It does appear they've learned some, but stuck joints, or joints so loose the figure can't hold itself are still all too common.

I didn't say because I'm paying more I expect more. I said because I'm payin more I expect better. Quality, not quantity.

But what has mattel said in the past? The sub line is to bring us figures that might not do well at retail (or something along those lines). Yet they expect me to believe that Flashpoint Plastic Man and Black Supergirl repaint (which the Linda Danvers DCSH figure was still on the shelves 5-6 waves into DCUC) are going to sell well and are in high public demand?

Fair question: If we were to ask everyone on this site who are the 8 figures they'd want most in the new DC line...how many do you think would say "Flashpoint Plastic Man" and "Black outfit supergirl"

Shellhead wrote:

I have a feeling you're going to end up disappointed, Burger.

I'll be happy if they have the same level of quality as the retail waves, but I'm not going to expect them to be better. I'm in the "hey, I get to have more figures this year" camp, rather than "I'm paying more, so I better get more."

It's be nice to get more, but the way prices have been going up lately, I don't think we're gonna get it. Look at Jay and Starman. Basic bucks with new heads. Atocitus has some new parts, but probably less than 50% (I'm not a parts expert like some on the board). I'll be surprised if Ivy isn't just modern Cheetah with new hands, feet, and a head.

I'm sincerely happy just to have the line continue in some form, at least until some major gaps have been filled in.

The quality of the figures in the subscription could be improved over those sold at retail if Mattel forgoes the dynamic poses. That might help with the problem of warped limbs.

Because Mattel is selling the subscription figures directly to adult collectors, there's no need for them to have dynamic poses in their packaging.

As an aside, I'm curious to see what kind of packaging Mattel chooses for the subscription figures. The bigger packaging helps sell figures at retail, but it could end up costing Mattel more money to ship the figures that way. I'm wondering whether Mattel will duplicate the retail packaging or come up with something smaller.

As long as a character isn't a 100% tool they are a candidate for the 2012 sub. If we did a 100% tool'd figure it would use up all of our tooling dollars and we wouldn't have enough left over for the remaining monthly figures!

If 2012 day-of sales are high and the 2013 sub sells well, we will look into 100% tool'd figures for the Sub. DCUC just is not selling the way MOTUC sells right now and we can't get the tooling we need without more sales.

regarding Doomsday...

"Would you consider Doomsday to be a 100% tool and if so does that mean we won't be seeing him anytime soon in the the sub?"

Yes, he is a 100% tool. Until we see an increase in day-of purchases and 2013 subs, a 100% tool figure is not possible. If DCUC sold the same numbers as MOTUC we could, but not at the numbers we are at. We just don't have the sales to support 100% tool'd figures right now.

also, in regards to Ragdoll...

"How about Ragdoll. There are a ton of fans who want to see a version of the Secret Six completed, so he is quite important. You wouldn't consider him a 100% tool right? Would some extra articulation fall into the range of something you guys could do?"

"He is not a 100% sculpt, but he is a lot of deco which makes him a bit tougher. Not off the table, but not a character that is simple to due because of the deco hits.

We'll have to see how the 2013 sub sales go (in July) before considering high tool and high deco figures. We only sold the bare min of 2012 subs just to turn the lights on. As reference, we sold more MOTUC 30th subs (for the 6 all new never before seen figures created for this line) then we did DCUC subs. So there are more fans interested in brand new MOTU figs vs existing DCU figs right now. This makes it hard to expand the DCUC line with such a small baseline of fans committed to the sub.

Supporting the 2013 sub and day of sales for 2012 figs is the best way to show support for more tooling, more deco and more resouces put into future DCU 6" figs!"