gimme NFL refs over NBA an MLB officials for sure. I'm not sure how much is the game, rules, # of refs, but they tend to get the vast majority right in the NFL. I would say the officials are a major part of the game in baseball and basketball, one of the reasons I have gravitated aways from those sports.

I don't think the NCAA guys do a bad job. I'd take them in the NFL in a minute, and I think there would be very little dropoff.

July 18th, 2012, 4:30 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: NFL faces another labor battle, with officials

I'll add... I think the NFL should announce a "job fair" for new hirees for refs. Have them try out watching game film, pay them a nominal salary, offer the same salary or even slightly less than the prior refs were making, and state that the X # of winners will be given pre-season game contracts. See how that rubs the stupidazz NFLRA.

As my labor law professor said, hard bargaining is still bargaining. The NFL should put their final offer on the table and tell them to take it or leave it, and move on. The NFLRA is lucky the NFL isn't calling for wage decreases. Again, these self-entitled pricks think they're worth more than they are. I guaranty you that there are plenty of qualified people willing to do the job for about 1/2 of what these buffoons are getting paid.

July 18th, 2012, 4:34 pm

TheRealWags

Megatron

Joined: December 31st, 2004, 9:55 amPosts: 12534

Re: NFL faces another labor battle, with officials

PFT wrote:

Upon further review, NFL has more to say to NFLRAPosted by Darin Gantt on July 18, 2012, 5:42 PM EDT

The NFL Referees Association is a small organization representing a constituency of a few hundred game officials.

The NFL has a well-oiled public relations machine, one that’s running smoothly after going through a lockout with the players last offseason.

So the league is firing back at claims by the NFLRA that they’re negotiating in bad faith, and tried to force a bad deal on the officials.

The league has sent out a statement clarifying a few points, insisting they have “a great respect for our officials” and that “we are available to meet with the NFLRA at any time to negotiate a new contract.”

As we wrote earlier, the league contends their seven-year proposal raises the bar for pay.

As to the NFLRA suggestion that the pension issues are as big a concern, the NFL points out that no official would lose any vested benefits, and that they wanted to move toward a 401(k) style program instead. The league cited a New York Times story which said only 17 percent of American workers have a defined benefit plan, saying many were freezing similar pension in favor of the “defined contribution” plan. The league said its latest proposal could provide a larger benefit than the old plan as well, offering “to contribute $16,500 per official in 2012 and increase that amount to almost $23,000 by 2018.”

But the league saved bullets for the claim that replacement officials would compromise the game.

The NFL said they only began hiring replacements from the ranks of retired or lower level football when the NFLPA informed them they were authorizing union leadership to call a strike.

While the NFLRA repeatedly referred to “scabs” during Wednesday’s call, the league refers to them as “experienced and high-quality officials”

“We have made substantial investments in training despite the efforts of the NFLRA to denigrate the replacements and disrupt the training process,” the league statement said.

“Our goal is to maintain the highest quality of officiating for our teams, players, and fans, including proper enforcement of the playing rules and efficient management of our games,” the statement read. ““We are confident that these game officials will enforce rules relating to player safety. Contrary to NFLRA leadership, we do not believe that players will “play dirty” or intentionally break the rules.”

The NFLRA stance is essentially that officials weren’t offered enough of a raise over what they received in 2006.

That’s not an argument that resonates with many, and it’s likely the officials will realize they don’t benefit from the same kind of public sympathy players enjoyed, the kind which could put some degree of pressure on the league.

Detroit vs. EverybodyClowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right....

July 19th, 2012, 10:46 am

thelomasbrowns

Player of the Year - Offense

Joined: August 24th, 2010, 9:54 pmPosts: 2870

Re: NFL faces another labor battle, with officials

wjb21ndtown wrote:

I'll add... I think the NFL should announce a "job fair" for new hirees for refs. Have them try out watching game film, pay them a nominal salary, offer the same salary or even slightly less than the prior refs were making, and state that the X # of winners will be given pre-season game contracts. See how that rubs the stupidazz NFLRA.

As my labor law professor said, hard bargaining is still bargaining. The NFL should put their final offer on the table and tell them to take it or leave it, and move on. The NFLRA is lucky the NFL isn't calling for wage decreases. Again, these self-entitled pricks think they're worth more than they are. I guaranty you that there are plenty of qualified people willing to do the job for about 1/2 of what these buffoons are getting paid.

I 100% disagree with you. If anything, I say increase their salary, but increase their commitments as well. It would benefit the sport if the refs didn't have to work side jobs in the offseason.

_________________"Good teams don't worry about a whole lot of stuff. They travel, they play, they win. And it doesn't matter where they go, what the time block is, all those kinds of things. They never seem to bother teams that play well, and we want to be one of those teams." -Jim Caldwell

July 23rd, 2012, 8:58 am

m2karateman

RIP Killer

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10408Location: Where ever I'm at now

Re: NFL faces another labor battle, with officials

thelomasbrowns wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

I'll add... I think the NFL should announce a "job fair" for new hirees for refs. Have them try out watching game film, pay them a nominal salary, offer the same salary or even slightly less than the prior refs were making, and state that the X # of winners will be given pre-season game contracts. See how that rubs the stupidazz NFLRA.

As my labor law professor said, hard bargaining is still bargaining. The NFL should put their final offer on the table and tell them to take it or leave it, and move on. The NFLRA is lucky the NFL isn't calling for wage decreases. Again, these self-entitled pricks think they're worth more than they are. I guaranty you that there are plenty of qualified people willing to do the job for about 1/2 of what these buffoons are getting paid.

I 100% disagree with you. If anything, I say increase their salary, but increase their commitments as well. It would benefit the sport if the refs didn't have to work side jobs in the offseason.

They don't HAVE to work side jobs. That's their choice. And the NFL can't prevent them from gaining employment outside the referee jobs if it doesn't inhibit them during the season.

The NFL has continually protected the referees from any criticism from the fans, players and coaches, but now the league office acts like they aren't worth spit. The league is looking like hypocrites right now. If you feel they do such a wonderful job, then negotiate in good faith. If they suck, stop defending them from the criticism they deserve.

I don't think the referees should be full time employees. I don't think they should be paid for NOT working in the off-season. However, the league needs to recognize that they can't side with the officials when they make OBVIOUS mistakes. They have to improve the positions to improve the overall product on the field. Some of these officials are in their advanced years and have no business trying to do this job, which is far more physically exherting than most understand. It's time for the NFL to find some younger guys to work in the NFL, rather than having the NCAA farm club that most of these guys have to work in for years before they get a shot at the NFL.

_________________I will not put on blinders when it comes to our QBs performances.

July 23rd, 2012, 1:13 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: NFL faces another labor battle, with officials

m2karateman wrote:

thelomasbrowns wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

I'll add... I think the NFL should announce a "job fair" for new hirees for refs. Have them try out watching game film, pay them a nominal salary, offer the same salary or even slightly less than the prior refs were making, and state that the X # of winners will be given pre-season game contracts. See how that rubs the stupidazz NFLRA.

As my labor law professor said, hard bargaining is still bargaining. The NFL should put their final offer on the table and tell them to take it or leave it, and move on. The NFLRA is lucky the NFL isn't calling for wage decreases. Again, these self-entitled pricks think they're worth more than they are. I guaranty you that there are plenty of qualified people willing to do the job for about 1/2 of what these buffoons are getting paid.

I 100% disagree with you. If anything, I say increase their salary, but increase their commitments as well. It would benefit the sport if the refs didn't have to work side jobs in the offseason.

They don't HAVE to work side jobs. That's their choice. And the NFL can't prevent them from gaining employment outside the referee jobs if it doesn't inhibit them during the season.

The NFL has continually protected the referees from any criticism from the fans, players and coaches, but now the league office acts like they aren't worth spit. The league is looking like hypocrites right now. If you feel they do such a wonderful job, then negotiate in good faith. If they suck, stop defending them from the criticism they deserve.

I don't think the referees should be full time employees. I don't think they should be paid for NOT working in the off-season. However, the league needs to recognize that they can't side with the officials when they make OBVIOUS mistakes. They have to improve the positions to improve the overall product on the field. Some of these officials are in their advanced years and have no business trying to do this job, which is far more physically exherting than most understand. It's time for the NFL to find some younger guys to work in the NFL, rather than having the NCAA farm club that most of these guys have to work in for years before they get a shot at the NFL.

I agree. There flat out isn't enough work for them to do for the other 6 mo. of the year, and if they can earn extra money, they're going to do it.

They're paid more than enough for what they do now. I also agree with M2 that they're not all that great, and probably past their prime. I think they could get better officiating by dumping these greedy pricks.

July 26th, 2012, 5:02 pm

regularjoe12

Def. Coordinator – Teryl Austin

Joined: March 30th, 2006, 12:48 amPosts: 4211Location: Davison Mi

Re: NFL faces another labor battle, with officials

We've seen a couple of games and so far I'm not impressed with the replacements. It seems that every game at least once they can't even get a first down right. The last lions game they changed the call on the field and didn't even measure?

I may have to rethink my previous stand on the issue. Thoughts?

_________________2013 Lionbacker Fantasy Football Champion

August 19th, 2012, 1:48 pm

njroar

Team MVP

Joined: September 25th, 2007, 3:20 amPosts: 3262

Re: NFL faces another labor battle, with officials

m2karateman wrote:

thelomasbrowns wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

I'll add... I think the NFL should announce a "job fair" for new hirees for refs. Have them try out watching game film, pay them a nominal salary, offer the same salary or even slightly less than the prior refs were making, and state that the X # of winners will be given pre-season game contracts. See how that rubs the stupidazz NFLRA.

As my labor law professor said, hard bargaining is still bargaining. The NFL should put their final offer on the table and tell them to take it or leave it, and move on. The NFLRA is lucky the NFL isn't calling for wage decreases. Again, these self-entitled pricks think they're worth more than they are. I guaranty you that there are plenty of qualified people willing to do the job for about 1/2 of what these buffoons are getting paid.

I 100% disagree with you. If anything, I say increase their salary, but increase their commitments as well. It would benefit the sport if the refs didn't have to work side jobs in the offseason.

They don't HAVE to work side jobs. That's their choice. And the NFL can't prevent them from gaining employment outside the referee jobs if it doesn't inhibit them during the season.

The NFL has continually protected the referees from any criticism from the fans, players and coaches, but now the league office acts like they aren't worth spit. The league is looking like hypocrites right now. If you feel they do such a wonderful job, then negotiate in good faith. If they suck, stop defending them from the criticism they deserve.

I don't think the referees should be full time employees. I don't think they should be paid for NOT working in the off-season. However, the league needs to recognize that they can't side with the officials when they make OBVIOUS mistakes. They have to improve the positions to improve the overall product on the field. Some of these officials are in their advanced years and have no business trying to do this job, which is far more physically exherting than most understand. It's time for the NFL to find some younger guys to work in the NFL, rather than having the NCAA farm club that most of these guys have to work in for years before they get a shot at the NFL.

While I agree that they should be open to scrutiny, the lack of holding them accountable has to do with the current system. In the negotiating, the NFL wants to add another more officials, so they have more ready to go if/when they need to penalize crews for doing a bad job. The NFLRA is against it, saying that they already have 1 extra crew any given week and 3 extra on buy weeks. It's the same argument with teacher tenure... If they can't afford to penalize a crew, they won't be able too.

As to the replacement refs... in the previous ref strike, the league used Division I refs, so there wasn't a huge drop off in officiating quality. This time, the NCAA said if any took the replacement positions, they'd lose their Div. I positions, so they're using Div II and III refs, which is a huge leap in rules and speed of the game. Mistakes are guaranteed. At least the Div I refs are used to the crowds and national television. The Div II and III refs have to deal with both the game and the media shock.

August 19th, 2012, 2:08 pm

m2karateman

RIP Killer

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10408Location: Where ever I'm at now

Re: NFL faces another labor battle, with officials

I gotta say, I didn't think the officiating would suffer that much, but I was completely wrong. I swear these guys they have out there are completely clueless. I've seen numerous OBVIOUS pass interference calls missed. Helmet to helmet shots missed. Phantom calls (Ricardo Silva, game one) being made that have absolutely no business being made. It's been in every game I've watched, and it's been for both weeks.

I am not a big fan of unions or their members. However, these replacement guys are in way over their heads. These calls (or lack thereof) could end up getting someone seriously hurt, or cost a team a game that they rightfully should have won. I know this happens with the regular officials, but not on the scope that it's happening with the replacements they have.

_________________I will not put on blinders when it comes to our QBs performances.

August 20th, 2012, 9:14 am

WarEr4Christ

QB Coach - Brian Callahan

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pmPosts: 3056Location: Elkhart, In.

Re: NFL faces another labor battle, with officials

But to prove the point, I'd be okay with them serving through the season. They'll learn as they go along and be able to pick up the speed of the game as it goes too!

It reminds me of the MLB strike back in the 80's or 90's there biggest concern was the "luxury tax." Don't you have to have luxury for it to be taxed?

The refs on strike perform a job for limited time through out the year, and need to be reminded that their position isn't as strong as they thought, especially if the replacements can step it up.

_________________Acts 4:13, 1 Cor. 2:1-5, Rom. 12:1-2

August 20th, 2012, 12:18 pm

TheRealWags

Megatron

Joined: December 31st, 2004, 9:55 amPosts: 12534

Re: NFL faces another labor battle, with officials

WarEr4Christ wrote:

But to prove the point, I'd be okay with them serving through the season. They'll learn as they go along and be able to pick up the speed of the game as it goes too!

The refs on strike perform a job for limited time through out the year, and need to be reminded that their position isn't as strong as they thought, especially if the replacements can step it up.

Pretty much agree, though I would add / clarify / remind peeps that the NFL Refs / Officials are "Part time" employees. Part time. Remember that as they are the only PTers that I know of that have their own union and are allowed to even threaten a strike (which this is NOT a strike by the refs, but a lockout by the owners - semantics? perhaps, but more accurate IMO)

That being said, here's the latest rumor floating....

PFT wrote:

Rumors fly that league may go with one-man officiating crewsPosted by Mike Florio on August 20, 2012, 2:22 PM EDT

The good news is that the replacement officials could soon be getting fired. The bad news is that the locked-out officials may stay locked out.

The in-between news is that the NFL may use only one official on the field to spot the ball and walk off penalties, with the rest of the officiating being performed in the booth by league employees watching TV monitors.

That’s the current rumor making the rounds on the league’s grapevine.

It’s just a rumor. But don’t expect anyone from the league to admit that there may be any truth to it. After all, the league office has been telling owners and coaches what they can and can’t say about the situation. Surely, no one will say that the NFL is considering such drastic action until the NFL decides to do it.

Given the performance of the replacement officials, it makes plenty of sense to consider drastic action.

From our perspective, we’ve got no problem with it. Technology has advanced to the point where the game can be called from a place other than the field.

Heck, if it works I’d be in favor of firing all officials and using the eye-in-the-sky system permanently.

See, I really don’t care who “wins” or “loses” this labor battle between the NFL and highly-paid part-time employees. I care, however, about the game. And the current situation compromises the game.

If the solution to the current situation can help the league get every call right, then maybe it’s time to get rid of every official except the guy who’d be acting like a glorified ball boy.

NFL spokesman Greg Aiello says the NFL will not be using one-man officiating crews in lieu of full crews of replacement officials.

“There has been no discussion or consideration of that whatsoever,” Aiello said by email.

We stand by the notion that it’s a rumor (and, as our source said, a “strong” one) within the hallways and offices and cubicles of 345 Park Avenue. But if the league is officially taking the position that there has been no official discussion of consideration of it, then we’ve got no reason to dispute the league’s official position.

Detroit vs. EverybodyClowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right....

August 20th, 2012, 3:19 pm

The Legend

Team President - Rod Wood

Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pmPosts: 5013Location: WSU

Re: NFL faces another labor battle, with officials

m2karateman wrote:

I gotta say, I didn't think the officiating would suffer that much, but I was completely wrong. I swear these guys they have out there are completely clueless. I've seen numerous OBVIOUS pass interference calls missed. Helmet to helmet shots missed. Phantom calls (Ricardo Silva, game one) being made that have absolutely no business being made. It's been in every game I've watched, and it's been for both weeks.

I am not a big fan of unions or their members. However, these replacement guys are in way over their heads. These calls (or lack thereof) could end up getting someone seriously hurt, or cost a team a game that they rightfully should have won. I know this happens with the regular officials, but not on the scope that it's happening with the replacements they have.

it seemed that in week 1 they were undercalling the games and then in week 2 they were overcalling. im sure the league reviewed the job they did and pointed out how many missed calls there were. we ll see if it equilibrates at all this coming week. they have been a total joke for the most part though i think they ll get better at keeping the game flowing and making the right markoffs, etc.

I gotta say, I didn't think the officiating would suffer that much, but I was completely wrong. I swear these guys they have out there are completely clueless. I've seen numerous OBVIOUS pass interference calls missed. Helmet to helmet shots missed. Phantom calls (Ricardo Silva, game one) being made that have absolutely no business being made. It's been in every game I've watched, and it's been for both weeks.

I am not a big fan of unions or their members. However, these replacement guys are in way over their heads. These calls (or lack thereof) could end up getting someone seriously hurt, or cost a team a game that they rightfully should have won. I know this happens with the regular officials, but not on the scope that it's happening with the replacements they have.

it seemed that in week 1 they were undercalling the games and then in week 2 they were overcalling. im sure the league reviewed the job they did and pointed out how many missed calls there were. we ll see if it equilibrates at all this coming week. they have been a total joke for the most part though i think they ll get better at keeping the game flowing and making the right markoffs, etc.

I agree... I also think that in week one the crowd really got to the refs. They made "popular calls" and were very "homerish." I was at the week 1 Lions game, and I thought it was very one-sided officiating, unintentional, but one-sided nonetheless. I know people can point to a couple calls questionable calls that went against, but I'm telling you, there were TONS of calls (or non-calls) that went our way.

That said, outside of a few really bad calls I think the officiating hasn't been terrible. Factor in that its the pre-season and I'm not worried one bit that this crew can get it together.

One thing that absolutely maddens me... IMO ALL of the reviews should be done by a central office, on a HUGE LCD screen, and they should be started as soon as the question comes up. It's silly that the ref literally has to walk to the "hood" investigate the call on on a small screen, do the rewinding, camera angles, etc. all right there, and takes FOREVER to make a call. Under the current system reviews are adding tons of awkward time to the game, and disrupt the flow, it needs to be re-vamped... Especially now that they're going to investigate every score (and possibly every turnover?) without a challenge.