so.. this is from a thread called 'messier'.. Jan5, 2010 (sorry.. not smart enough to link to my own posts)

but it says why I think stevie Y is tops on the list.

So I am meeting a couple buddies in a bar here in Saskatoon after work last night, and while waiting for a bunch of guys to clear a space for me to sit down at (there are a bunch of dudes crowding the table beside us), a gravelly voice asks me "so what, you want an autograph too?" Sitting at the next table are Stevie Y, Mark Messier, and Darryl Sutter (and odd trio to say the least!!).. I reply, "nah. I just wanted to shake Steves hand. I really respect a guy who plays his entire career with a team, rides out the rough times, and turns a struggling team into a dominate one!... A guy who understands hockey hate and loyalty are hard to find today!"

Mark says (while I am shaking Steve's hand) "you can't control the teams you get traded to, or where you go in the league. theres no need to hate the teams a player has played for because he got traded somewhere"

With a big smile,I said "dude. you are a hockey icon. You are one of the top 5 leaders in all sports of all times, second in so many catagories to Wayne that its not even funny, with a history of clutch performaces. I don't hate teams you have played for... I am a canucks fan. I simply hate you!"

Sutter almost fell off his stool because he was laughing so hard

I had a beer with them, and even though sutter 'hates me too!' we had a really nice chat about a variety of topics. When Messier doesn't have his 'hockey god' hat on, he really isn't a bad guy.. and sutter has a wierd sense of humor. if he wasn't a Flamer, I could almost like him. Stevie Y is just that.. classy a guy as any I have ever met ( I avoided the Olymic selection topic). All three have a good knowledge of the Junior talent in town...All in all, a good night...

The 'Chain of Command' is the chain I am going to beat you with untill you understand I am in charge.

Guess its a genertional gap thing Doc .. Maybe I am a little prejudiced .. but the 1960's were the Bobby Hull era to me.. Before Makita and Hull showed up the Blackhawks were the worst team in the old 6 team league.. They turned out to be to Chicago what Richard was to Montreal.. Howe was to Detroit and Orr was to Boston.. Chicago had been playing to empty seats for years until Hull , Makita etc showed up.. Hull broke all the scoring records.. He and Stan Makita invented the curved stick.. Maybe the first star to use the Slapshot.- clocked at close to 120 .( controversial as Boom Boom Geoffrion also had a wicked slapshot ) .. Before Hull the Hawks had 15 losing seasons !! He lead them to the Stanley Cup in 61 ( never was the captain though ). Broke with the NHL to get the first million dollar paycheck out of the WHA which set the stage for players getting a decent paycheck. Guess what got me started thinking about Hull was 2 other threads.. Evander Kane is wearing #9 ( actually went to Hull and got permission - kids got class ).. and the Summit series .. Hull was kept off the team by Harold Ballard ( spit .. f*ing Leafs ) as he wasn't in the NHL .. so we were missing 2 great stars - Hull and Orr.. ..

He's a leader without "trying" and his quiet fortitude is something that transcends his teammates. He has the respect of fans, not only from his team but fans who root for other teams. Although maybe an Avalanche fan from the mid/late 90s may see him in a different light.

His career in Detroit was phenomenal and I think everyone wished he was on their team, not only for his skill set but the class and integrity he brought to the game.

When the best NHL leader of all time came here and farted around for 3 years, while totally fucking up team chemistry, I kind of realized that NHL "leadership" was mostly a complete myth perpetuated by fans and media most of whom really had no clue what was really going on.

Mark Messier was a complete and total fraud.

A self centered player who played for the money, fame and lifestyle. He had the charisma to convince fans and media otherwise but the proof was in the pudding.

A total fraud, an egomaniac, a party animal, and a total douche.

Yet this is the guy people claim to be the best leader in sports.

Yes follow me, don't play defense, go to the Roxy every night, push out popular players, cash your checks, and be a horrible role model for young players.

The truth is the hockey media had no fucking clue who the best NHL leaders have been, or if it's even relevant. The fact they continue to fawn over Mark Messier just shows what a crock the whole thing is.

hmmm been reading your posts .. you keep looking for an asshole player for the Nucks.. Got to agree in his personal life Hull was a #1 asshole.. and did his share of fighting on the ice too.. Your kinda guy? lol

hmmm been reading your posts .. you keep looking for an asshole player for the Nucks.. Got to agree in his personal life Hull was a #1 asshole.. and did his share of fighting on the ice too.. Your kinda guy? lol

I have to say I don't recall Clarke going toe to toe with any one if he fought it was becuase the rest of the team was already throwing it else where. Team mates looked after Clarke like a kid looks after his first puppy. I certainly watched Orr go at it more often