FFXIV: ARR's fishing system changes

EDIT 6: After months of waiting and three large, well read and tidily-kept threads about fishing, the devs have finally responded.... In none of those threads. But whatever, we got a dev response:

Originally Posted by Hvinire

Hey all,

As Yoshida brought up in previous Letter from the Producer LIVE, fishing is designed to be a casual concept that can be enjoyed between battle content or while waiting for Duty Finder matching or for your friends to log in.

While fishing, your catches will go into your inventory, and you are able to both sell it back to the market, use it as an ingredient in your food recipes, or use it immediately for bait to lure in different fish. You can also fish up coral to be used in various accessories and even more surprising items.

As I stated directly under that post, I'm really glad that we will still able to sell our fish and presumably we can therefore still make money. There are two things that bother me about the post however.

1. The constant insistence that the only people who will fish or who will find fishing interesting will be people who are just waiting to do something else. Please Yoshi and Co., please understand that there are those among us who prefer gathering above all else in the game. As this is a roleplaying game, we shouldn't be marginalized or told how to play the game. I've said it a million times, but it bears repeating: When I choose to fish, it is precisely and exclusively because I feel like fishing. It is not done to wait for friends, nor is it done while waiting for my duty finder to pop. I intend to never even touch duty finder. I just want to fish.

Constantly insisting that we are now nothing more than a hobby - a time-wasting activity - is insulting not only to those of us who genuinely enjoy the gameplay, but also to those who put so much work into the class. To change from one of three gathering classes that did, despite what you may think, contribute to the economy through crafting materials, crystals, shards, and catalyst supplies, into a class that is merely regarded as a hobby is insulting and implies that us fisher have wasted our time leveling the class or gaining any of the achievements.

2. Hvinire's post that we can in fact still sell our fish, and that beyond the common-sense crafts like food and potions, fish will also contribute to "surprising crafting recipes," flies completely in the face of Yoshi's near-constant bragging that the class has absolutely no place in the economy whatsoever. This suggests either one of two things to me. A) Yoshi is as disconnected from his gathering development teams as I thought (and hoped) and all the "knowledge" he has of the new design for the classes is purely second-hand. B) Hvinire was wrong, which is the worst case scenario.

In the case of scenario A, it stands to reason that everything else we know of the class as told by Yoshi is also wrong, or at least not 100% accurate. If this is the case then there's some small hope. I just find it's a shame that Yoshi seems to fit the stereotype of the "combat only" MMO players to a tee. The kind of person who not only does not but cannot understand the mindset of a gatherer. To have someone like that in charge of gathering or crafting is a detriment to the classes, and because this is a roleplaying game, it ends up being a detriment to the game as a whole.

I'm glad this small piece of information has finally cleared the air somewhat, and even more glad that we have finally, finally received word from the devs. I'm more willing to give the game a chance now, and I hope anyone who actually reads this drivel I write will also give fishing a try. Maybe if we can show SE that us fishers, and gatherers in general, fish more often than they'd expect from an "afk time-wasting activity," they may end up expanding the design. That can only mean good things for us.

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EDIT 5: And once again, we get left in the dark.

Classes and Jobs
Version 1.0 characters will retain their class and job levels. Unlike new characters, they will immediately have access to the Armoury system and possess the ability to change classes.
* Grand Company gear can only be equipped if you are enlisted in the corresponding company.* Fisher will not be available in phase 3.

I don't know what you're thinking or what you're planning SE. Some friends are saying that maybe you're just not done making the class yet, others are saying it was complete but after seeing several of our fishing threads you're making some changes. I don't know what the truth is, but I do know that compared to every other class, we've received almost nothing in terms of information.

It's all well and good that arcanist, summoner, and now scholar aren't being spoken about much, because they're brand new classes and it's something that would go over well at E3. But this is fishing. We've been in the game since the start, and unless you've created some sort of insane new mechanic for us, I can't imagine it's this difficult to throw us a bone. We've begged and pleaded for months now. Two live letters that I can remember got massive outpourings of support for the "Please show us fishing!" questions, from several different people. Three giant threads kept neat and tidy in their respective locations have kept 90% of the discussion about fishing in one (three) place(s). I realise the community reps can only speak about what the devs release, but there must be something you can tell us.

Removing Fisher from phase 3, in my opinion, is frightening. If you have to leave it to phase 4, that tells me it's so unfinished as to be unplayable. If that's the case, what are the chances we even see it in phase 4? Or at launch?

Here's a question that I'm hoping you guys can answer:

Can you give us a time frame on when we WILL see fishing?
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EDIT 4: OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG

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EDIT 3: Some news. Rather, a new translation of the quote seen directly below:

Q: How will fishing work in FFXIV: A Realm Reborn?
A: I believe it'll be much easier to understand when you actually play, but I'll go ahead and give you an idea of what we're planning. I think in an MMO world there are a lot of times where you just want to chat with people, you are waiting on friends, or you don’t really have enough time to craft and gather. During these times we feel it would be great for anyone to be able to easily change to the fisherman class, head to a nearby pond and start fishing.

Although there will be a few skills you can use when fishing, it's been designed so they're not absolutely necessary, allowing players to relax and enjoy the experience if they choose to do so. Also, we plan on having different types and sizes of fish depending on the area and water temperature.

While part of me is happy that there might actually be depth to the whole system with water temperatures and fish sizes, the rest of me is still insulted at the implication that "fishing should be for afking." I'm not sure where Yoshi got it in his head that we fished only because the alternative was sitting around doing nothing, but it's certainly not the truth.

I truly hope there's more depth to the system, and those of us who want to specialise in fishing can do so just as we did in 1.0. We're not asking for much Yoshi, we just want to be recognized as a standalone class. We are not below the botanists and miners, and we are not something for bored people to do and nothing else. There are a million ways you can make fishing rewarding and fruitful, and so far it seems like you're not even exploring any of those paths.

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EDIT: Finally got an answer. Looks like our time is up.

Q10: How will fishing work in FFXIV: A Realm Reborn?

A10: It's probably best if you actually experience it in-game, so let me just go over the broad concept. In ARR, you will first need to walk near a water spot, select a fishing pole that matches the type of water, and then select the bait. There will be no actions during the fishing process. Instead, we will be providing a variety of fish-types depending on the area.

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EDIT 2: After having slept on it and having my rage abate (just a bit), AND having a bunch of friends trying to assure me that what I think is going to happen cannot happen, I'm still seriously worried at the direction Yoshi intends to bring this class. As others have stated, we're incredibly worried that the class we spent time and effort leveling will suddenly become completely useless. That a class that could have been a major player in the economy will be benched entirely. That this class, which had so much potential and a rallying cry from every single fisher for more content, not less, and for a better minigame, not the complete removal of one, will become as pointless as sitting around in Ul'dah waiting for friends. We're worried in general with the direction you're taking gathering, but anything is better than turning the class into Not a class, which is exactly what will happen if our assumptions are correct.

I very politely request any information at all which might allay these fears. The comment that "there will be no actions during the fishing process" is terrifying and suggests that, beyond choosing your rod and bait, there will be no player input at all, whereas in 1.0 we had to "fight" the fish with the hot-and-cold minigame, and could at least choose what skills might proc during the act. The comments in various interviews that "fishing will not play a part in the economy" is equally terrifying, and suggests that this class will have no point to it. No fish caught will be sold, or given to alchemists, or given to cooks. What's the point? If your intention is to turn it into a hobby, then you have to have a fun mechanic to the act that will ensure people will enjoy doing it. From what we've seen, you don't intend on having a fun mechanic, and you don't intend on having it be part of the economy. If this is true, the class will be utterly pointless, and I'm sure everyone who spent any time leveling it will be heart broken and angry that you've ruined the class in this way.

Please, any information at all to put our fears to rest would be divine. We're all worried, but all it would take is a simple message from a dev or rep telling us that there will be a minigame involved, that player interaction will matter, that we will still be a force in the economy.

The fishing class has an insane amount of potential, from fishing up legendary monsters to finding treasure in streams, maybe getting its own Job. There are different fishing actions that can be taking, like net fishing, fishing from a boat, fishing from a personal boat, being able to catch and keep fish in aquariums in homes, etc. Please, let us know what you're planning. Leaving it to beta phase 3 is cruel.

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Hello fellow pullers,

I present this thread as a request for more information on the upcoming changes to our fishing system. In previous live letters and and producers letters, we've seen the new Botany system at work. In my opinion, it looks new and, despite some hesitation on my part, exciting. However we've also been told that fishing has been completely reworked and won't resemble botany (with mining supposedly being similar to the new botany).

We already know that spearfishing is being removed. Beyond that, we know nothing at all. My questions about the new system boil down simply to this: How does it work? Will we choose from a list of items like Botany (and presumably mining) will have? How will lures and bait be reworked? Will fish schools move around or be diminishable? Will we be forced to only fish at schools, or will we retain the ability to fish wherever there is water like in version 1.xx, something I call "free fishing"? What, if anything, will replace spearfishing? Will we be able to fish sitting down? Can I make my chocobo sleep next to me, forming a comfy seat back that I can lean against, puller's hat pulled low over my eyes while I fish the day away?

Will we finally be able to catch some alligator garfish?

It's no secret that dedicated fishers are a bit strange, and I'm sure that most of us enjoy the ability to sit at the same spot and fish for hours on end. That being said, having the new system be a little more involved, needing more player skill, would be very nice, and though I loved the old system I am 100% open to whatever the new system brings.

As long as our rods can't break. Don't need any of that.

Some information on this would be nice though. I and the other pullers of Eorzea have waited with fisher-like patience, and of course we'll continue to wait, but this is something we'd all like to know about. Some news would be most appreciated.

tl;dr Can we have some info on the new fishing system? I'm dying without my rod here.

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Last edited by LlenCoram; 08-14-2013 at 01:10 AM.
Reason: Added my thoughts given the news

Well, apparently gathering is something you'll be able to get your retainer to do for you. I no longer have any hopes about what they're going to do with fishing... Real shame, because it was my favourite thing to do in game.

I really hope all the dedicated gatherers in this game stand up and remind SE that we're a separate job for a reason. A lot of us truly enjoy gathering. The way they're heading... It's worrying. It looks like a gathering system built for crafters, and now we find out that you might be able to get your retainers to do it. Sends a very clear message, SE saying, "No one likes gathering, so we're gonna make it so streamlined a computer could do it for you."

Well, apparently gathering is something you'll be able to get your retainer to do for you. I no longer have any hopes about what they're going to do with fishing... Real shame, because it was my favourite thing to do in game.

I really hope all the dedicated gatherers in this game stand up and remind SE that we're a separate job for a reason. A lot of us truly enjoy gathering. The way they're heading... It's worrying. It looks like a gathering system built for crafters, and now we find out that you might be able to get your retainers to do it. Sends a very clear message, SE saying, "No one likes gathering, so we're gonna make it so streamlined a computer could do it for you."

May as well just get rid of gathering altogether at this rate.

I think it's too fast to jump to conclusions. We don't even know the details of what the devs are thinking about the retainers chore/gathering feature. I was thinking it was going to be something really minor that it won't even affect the market. Also there are threads talking about this so might as well post in there and if there are enough complaints about the rep post made today about the retainers features we still have time to stop the devs from implementing such system.

As for fishing they were planning a entirely new system so I don't think it would even fall under same category for the retainers gathering chores imo.

I was reminded that there is still gear coming for Gather's... *I hope the graphic was showing a PC and not a retainer* so I guess gathering isn't going away.

And even though I agree with Reinheart, and I do love me some Yoshi-P, when it comes to gathering, there is a pattern of narrowing the roles, minimizing the impact that gathering has on the game, not expanding it and making it more relevant. There's been promises left by the wayside for gatherers (Grade VI and Stat reforms), baffling decisions on mob and node placements that were never rectified and while I do agree that the finishing of 1.0 was imminent, I haven't seen anything that indicates that Gathering won't continue to lose relevance and bleed content in 2.0.

I'm going to test my gathering mettle in Beta, but again, I don't understand the decision. It seems to reflect a continued "out-of-touch"edness for gathering that first manifested when job system came out and the gatherer's were told "We're sorry but gathering won't be as important to this game any more."

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