girl in my homeroom doesnt stand for pledge

Theres this girl in my homeroom that refuses to stand durring the national anthem. She says its her right not too. This sickens me.

My friend (uncle died in WTC attac, he was a cop) threw a pen cap at her friday. The teacher threatened him with a detention if he did it again, saying he was "disrespectful."

DISRESPECTFUL?!?!?! How about sitting down durring the anthem while soldiers are fighting and dieng for her freedom. Now THAT is disrespect. This entire situation makes me sick. If I was a teacher I would give this bitch a detention every day she refused to stand, and if we lived a few decades ago I would smack her with a ruler constantly. I just cant get over how sick this makes me.

Because it is.. just as your rights are protected to believe what you believe.. so are hers. Have you ever stopped to ask her why she didn't stand up or was it just easier to hang with your buds and throw things at her. While I personally don't agree with her not standing up, I have and will gladly defend her right to not stand up.. it takes all of us to make this a great country, that includes the ones that don't stand and salute the flag.. they are the ones that help us to see something that we miss due to the fact that we are watching the flag. Davis, I hope you understand exactly why that I am writing this but if you don't I hope you will at least remember some of it as you get out into the wide world away from HS because trust me when I say, some of the things that you believed in HS do change as new things are pressed into your mind

Because it is.. just as your rights are protected to believe what you believe.. so are hers. Have you ever stopped to ask her why she didn't stand up or was it just easier to hang with your buds and throw things at her. While I personally don't agree with her not standing up, I have and will gladly defend her right to not stand up.. it takes all of us to make this a great country, that includes the ones that don't stand and salute the flag.. they are the ones that help us to see something that we miss due to the fact that we are watching the flag. Davis, I hope you understand exactly why that I am writing this but if you don't I hope you will at least remember some of it as you get out into the wide world away from HS because trust me when I say, some of the things that you believed in HS do change as new things are pressed into your mind

Dont get me wrong, I didnt support him in throwing it. I just think him throwing the cap isnt half as disrespectful has her not standing. If you dont like this country, GET OUT. That simple.

And as you said its her right, that right needs to be removed. She doesnt talk, except for saying she doesnt have to stand. She smells like cigurettes BAD every morning.

My honest guess why she is anti social and anti-american is because she is overweight. No, im not bashing on fat people, but this is a fitness board so I figure it would fit in well. She is basically what I was in JR. High when I was fat, didnt talk, but I wasnt anti american. What did I do? I didnt hate the world or the country or the people that threw pencaps at me, I made a change. I didnt sulk around wishing I was in good shape, I took controll and MADE a change. Too many of these "im not accepted b/c im fat" people dont want to work for a change. I am a strong believer that everyone is capton of there own ship.

And again, if she doesn't like this country, she can get the hell out, its that simple.

Edit- I like the part of you statement "thing are pressed into your mind"
What will be pressed into my mind? Politically correct BULL CRAP that people accept today. I'll tell you exactly whats gonna be "pressed." Girls started sleeping around in high school, so it is now accepted that they take BC pills (no, i dont mean the ones that use it to regulate there period). It was "pressed" into all of our heads to make it seem ok. Gay marrage became more common, so it was "pressed" into our heads that it was ok. 50 years ago girls didnt wear skirts so you could see there vagina, but it got "pressed" in our heads so its common place now. Your right our views change once we get into the "real world," they change from what we think to what we think will be accepted.

Matthew, guess I kind of have to understand what you mean. At first, when reading Davis' post, I was in agreement w/ him.. But your right. People having a choice is what makes America what it is today. The land of the free... Don't get me wrong, being a Marine and now a firefighter, her not standing up makes me sick to my stomach too. Chances are, someone in her family, be it her father, grandfather, etc.. may have been in the military in the past. Like Matthew said, ask her why she refuses..

And as you said its her right, that right needs to be removed. She doesnt talk, except for saying she doesnt have to stand. She smells like cigurettes BAD every morning.

Remove that right and there's no reason to salute the flag, because it doesn't stand for anything worth a damn. Whether she doesn't stand up because she doesn't like America, likes it but disagrees to much with what it does, or she honestly just can't lever her ass out of the seat doesn't matter. Someone like that, if the topic came up, would get an earful from me as to why they should get their ass up out of that seat and salute the flag, as is my right. But that's as far as that goes.

That hurts me also, but I'm sure she has her reasons, whether they are stupid to you or not.
My BEST FRIEND who I've known for 13 years is in Iraq right now, so basically someone disrespecting the flag is like spitting in my friends face.

Try talking to her though, regardless if she is overweight, or your friends poke fun at her. It never hurts to look from someone else's side.

1) we are given the power to elect our leaders, unlike those who have there leaders thrust upon them.
2) Last time I checked, the change of power was peaceful. A simple change of office, no tanks being rolled down the streets of WDC.

Those 2 privlidges are not given to most people in the world, but you find no reason to solute the flag, huh.

That hurts me also, but I'm sure she has her reasons, whether they are stupid to you or not.
My BEST FRIEND who I've known for 13 years is in Iraq right now, so basically someone disrespecting the flag is like spitting in my friends face.

Try talking to her though, regardless if she is overweight, or your friends poke fun at her. It never hurts to look from someone else's side.

(BTW very good post CDB, I completely agree.)

I dont care what her reasons are. No one short of jesus christ alone could give me any reason not to stand and respect soldiers dieng for my freedoms.

BTW, I want to go pro in bodybuilding. I know this will require eventual "gear" use. Because of this I will likly move to canada (only about 3 hours away from my current residence) once I start, unless the punisment for anabolic steroids becomes less severe here. Even thought I dont plan on staying all my life, as long as im here, your damn right I will respect this country.

Everyone I've ever met like her when I was in high school a) thinks black helicopters are hovering over their house and have tin-foil caps, b) are covered in scars around the wrist, c) a combination of both.

Usually kids around that age have absolutely no clue what is really going on in the world and only understand one thing as social outcasts, rebellion and non-conformity (which, ironically, is so popular these days one can say you're just conforming to a different belief system )

Everyone I've ever met like her when I was in high school a) thinks black helicopters are hovering over their house and have tin-foil caps, b) are covered in scars around the wrist, c) a combination of both.

Usually kids around that age have absolutely no clue what is really going on in the world and only understand one thing as social outcasts, rebellion and non-conformity (which, ironically, is so popular these days one can say you're just conforming to a different belief system )

Reminds me, there are these mysterious "injection like" spots on her forarms. Wonder what that could be...

She also has the right to leave this country if she pleases, and if she is against it enough to not stand for the pledge, she should.

And you can say the pledge of allegence w/o supporting the gov't, you pledge allegence to the flag, not the government or president.

Anyone that lives in the country and "hates" it at the same time is like the hippys that hate technology but whoop out there ipods.

well there is a yes and no side to all those coins Davis.. if you take the pledge seriously and at face value you are supporting all of the things you mentioned. And it still doesn't have to be hating anything, it could be something entirely different. As for having the right to leave, yes we all have that right and that was paid for by people like my granddad, my father, my brother, and all of others that have served in the armed forces over the last 229 years. But sometimes having the people that dissent and try to change things are the people that we need around. Again this is just my opinion..

Everyone I've ever met like her when I was in high school a) thinks black helicopters are hovering over their house and have tin-foil caps, b) are covered in scars around the wrist, c) a combination of both.

Usually kids around that age have absolutely no clue what is really going on in the world and only understand one thing as social outcasts, rebellion and non-conformity (which, ironically, is so popular these days one can say you're just conforming to a different belief system )

LOL.. K you are not to far out of HS yourself.. and you are right that is one of the trade marks of being an adolscent... trying to find what you believe in the mists of what you were taught before your brain started changing...

hhaa, don't remind me! The 4-5 years since I've been out I've matured more than I did in the entire previous 18! I don't know what the hell happens, but you just start to "grow up"...it's odd?!?!

I remember telling my g/f (who was still in HS when I met her) how one day she is going to get into politics, listen to the AM channels on the radio, etc, etc, and her telling me "yeah right!" well...that's what I said, too. Now I get to say "I told you so!" all day long...hehe.

But, aside from my sexual perversity, I was pretty mature for my age...I was always the sober guy at the parties, and kept my friends out of trouble..... (if that counts??? )

1) we are given the power to elect our leaders, unlike those who have there leaders thrust upon them.
2) Last time I checked, the change of power was peaceful. A simple change of office, no tanks being rolled down the streets of WDC.

Those 2 privlidges are not given to most people in the world, but you find no reason to solute the flag, huh.

A commitment to freedom requires a respect and devotion to all our fundamental rights. Without all of them, any one of them can be nullified or abridged at a moments notice and rendered meaningless. The power to elect our leaders is meaningless if we are unable to speak out against them because over time, with no vocal or strident opposition they become selected rather than elected, and we have a choice between getting ****ed in the ear as opposed to the ass.

You'll find that those two privileges as you call them are extended to a goodly amount of the population of this world. The fact that the rest of the world is so screwed up even with those privileges (I'd call them rights, far far different from privileges), goes to show how useless a fervent devotion to only some of our fundamental rights can be.

But, aside from my sexual perversity, I was pretty mature for my age...I was always the sober guy at the parties, and kept my friends out of trouble..... (if that counts??? )

I'm that guy now. A mood disorder and a ****load of drugs of all types essentially rendered my high school and early college years memoryless. Even though I lost my taste for it, I wouldn't trade it or change anything in my past, I sure as hell learned quite a bit, and the times I do remember were fun fun fun to say the least. I'm still not even sure when I lost my virginity. I've got it narrowed down to one girl I woke up next too naken and sticky upstate. She was a townie in Oneanta, running some kind of welfare scam with around six social security numbers. Great knockers. One night during which I managed to spend a whole week's paycheck at a bar called the Copper Fox and only Christ knows what happened next.

she is enjoying that freedom to be sitting down because of that flag, its only respectful to be standing up for it, even if its for 30 damn seconds in the morning. yes she has the right to not stand, but its simply wrong, and i dont care for people like that.

you say she should leave this country if she doesn't like it .. but if everyone who disagreed with some policies did that .. how would change ever occur? .. if black people all left instead of fighting against this system how would we have ever progressed?

nothing wrong with trying to change things and bring about awareness of problems one perceives in the system

Theres this girl in my homeroom that refuses to stand durring the national anthem. She says its her right not too. This sickens me.

Why, because you don't have respect for what this republic is supposed to represent? No other country salutes a flag. What will happen if she does not salute? Will "THEY" win?

DISRESPECTFUL?!?!?! How about sitting down durring the anthem while soldiers are fighting and dieng for her freedom. Now THAT is disrespect.

Well, that's debatable. Which soldiers in what country are fighting or dying for "her" freedom? If you mean that soldiers in the past have died for our freedom, then I could understand your issues of respect. However, those soldiers died to protect everyone's rights, one of which she is currently invoking, the right to disagree. That is the cornerstone of a democratic republic. Dictatorships thrive on conformity and predictability. So if you wish to punish her for a mere disagreement in opinion, it implies that you do not believe in the values you salute.

If you dont like this country, GET OUT. That simple.

So what you're saying is that if you disagree with how things are being run in this country, you should leave? Now that's just close-minded, socialist thinking. Have you not studied history? Remember the Pilgrims? The Puritans? They came to America due to religious persecution by the Church of England. Here they could worship and speak as their morals and values dictated. It has taken 200 years to implement the basic ideals set forth in the Constitution designed to protect such freedoms and diversity and now you're going to say that those ideals should be abandoned in favor of a government hateful of any opinion which differs from the status quo? Have you been watching too much Fox News? Isn't Dubya always going on about protecting "freedom"? Whose freedom is it then? Yours or hers? Most people don't hate America just to hate America. They have reasons. Some justified, some not. To stifle a nonviolent protest is to incite a violent one. If someone hates the current state of this country and feels that it should be changed, is that not the true patriotism? Blindly waving Old Glory doesn't make elected officials realize that changes are necessary. It is only through dissention that a need for positive change can be recognized. I'm sure Martin Luther King would agree.

What will be pressed into my mind? Politically correct BULL CRAP that people accept today. I'll tell you exactly whats gonna be "pressed." Girls started sleeping around in high school, so it is now accepted that they take BC pills (no, i dont mean the ones that use it to regulate there period). It was "pressed" into all of our heads to make it seem ok. Gay marrage became more common, so it was "pressed" into our heads that it was ok. 50 years ago girls didnt wear skirts so you could see there vagina, but it got "pressed" in our heads so its common place now. Your right our views change once we get into the "real world," they change from what we think to what we think will be accepted.

1. Ok, so birth control = bad idea? I think you need to research what happens in "pro-life" educated schools. The schools that teach a Sex Ed agenda consisting solely of abstinence are invariably the schools with the highest teen birth rates. I can only imagine the STD rates in those schools as well. I hate Dr. Phil, but "Get Real". Teens aren't going to stop having sex just because some teacher or a parent says so. It's going to happen, and taxpayers are going to end up footing the bill. Teaching responsible sexual practices is much more likely to decrease the numerous social problems resulting from teen sexual activity than telling them it's wrong. The Catholics tried that for years, the guilt approach. Guess what, it didn't work. Even their priests can't keep their hands of the altar boys. Those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it.

2. I could care less whether gays marry. What business of mine is it what they do in their lives? Who does it hurt? If it isn't harming anyone, why does it concern you? People really need to learn to mind their own business. Isn't this the problem with have with the FDA/DEA? If gays want to enjoy the suffering of marriage like heterosexual couples, who cares?

3. So fifty years ago girls didn't wear revealing skirts. Fifty years ago "Leave It To Beaver" was must-see TV. Times change, socially acceptable clothing changes as well. You're making a poor assumption that women were nuns 50 years ago. I don't recall Marilyn Monroe, Bettie Page, Jayne Mansfield or many of the movie and pin-up stars of the day being big prudes. With negatives come positives. The increased openness in sexuality has led to advances in research that have helped men and women to have a better, more satisfying sexual experience. From the work of Masters and Johnson to Kinsey to Viagra and Cialis and HRT, we understand more and care more about how to please our partners and have the means as never before to increase chances of mutual satisfaction.

I'm very politically incorrect, but being politically incorrect doesn't necessarily mean being a close-minded conservative. Progress and change is necessary to the survival of any civilization.

1) we are given the power to elect our leaders, unlike those who have there leaders thrust upon them.
2) Last time I checked, the change of power was peaceful. A simple change of office, no tanks being rolled down the streets of WDC.

Those 2 privlidges are not given to most people in the world, but you find no reason to solute the flag, huh.

Your 17, so is she probably, she can't pick her leaders. Not to mention, she isn't a legal adult in most countries, and could not leave even if she wanted to.

Have you considered that she might be Canadian, or a member of a religion such as Jehovah's Witness that prohibits it on theological grounds?

(My parents are Canadian, and while they would not recite the Pledge of Allegiance they opted to stand among others in respect, but that's an individual choice. Some non-citizens do not stand, and it's not a slight it's just a custom)

On the Iraq issue - I respect every soldier who is willing to sacrifice his life for his country - but the unfortunate American military personnel that are dying in Iraq are not dying for the freedom of the US or to protect the rights of its citizens- they were sent there by the US government to fight a war that is based purely on oil. They have dressed it up as a mission to "save" the people of Iraq or to make the world safer by elliminating a dictator who "had weapons of mass destruction" - the people of Iraq are not saved - there were no WMD's - The truth of the matter is that the US foreign policy towards countries with vast reserves of oil is riddled with double standards. On one hand we have members of the Bush administration harping on about ridding the world of dictators like Saddam to bring liberty and democracy to the Iraq people - on the other hand they spew out propaganda against a democratically elected leader of Venezuela simply because Mr. Chavez is of the opinion that the people of his country and not US corporations should benefit from the sale of his oil - they call him a collaborator with the "axis of evil" . Only in the last few days the Bush administration is looking for international support in imposing sanctions on Iran for developing nuclear capabilities - Iran has the right to do what it likes - if its enemies can build nuclear weapons then why shouldn't it have them too. It seems too much of a coincidence that Iran is endowed with vast oil reserves.
I am not anti American - I have lived in the US for a time and it is a great country no doubt -it has done much good for the world. Its foreign policy however is far from being just or right. Maybe this girl realised that and this is her way of protesting.

1. Ok, so birth control = bad idea? I think you need to research what happens in "pro-life" educated schools. The schools that teach a Sex Ed agenda consisting solely of abstinence are invariably the schools with the highest teen birth rates. I can only imagine the STD rates in those schools as well. I hate Dr. Phil, but "Get Real". Teens aren't going to stop having sex just because some teacher or a parent says so. It's going to happen, and taxpayers are going to end up footing the bill. Teaching responsible sexual practices is much more likely to decrease the numerous social problems resulting from teen sexual activity than telling them it's wrong. The Catholics tried that for years, the guilt approach. Guess what, it didn't work. Even their priests can't keep their hands of the altar boys. Those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it.

Your right, we wont stop because society and pop culture "pounded it in our head" that it was acceptabe.

You forgot that back in the day there were fewer teen pregnancies and less adultry.

Yes, and racism, social inequality of the sexes, sheltered ignorance and blind faith in religious leaders and government. With change comes challenges. The real problem leading to more teen pregnancies and more adultery is a lack of proper education. If kids were taught to value other people as well as themselves, taught proper and all-inclusive sex education, taught to be absolutely sure they had found the right partner for life before making such a serious commitment, these problems could be mostly avoided.

Where do I place the majority of the blame? On the conservatives who fail to change with the needs of society. When a theory is disproven, it is no longer advanced as viable or useful for scientific research. The conservatives believe in beating a dead horse long after it has rotted to the bone. Teaching the same limited and outdated material doesn't help anyone, it just causes either unrealistic thinking or the student to ignore his teachers. When schools teach kids family values, they make them believe that they should find someone and marry them. Yet, at the same time, there is more emphasis than ever on self-satisfaction at the expense of others. This leads to mismatched couples who commit too early when they might have found someone for whom they are better suited. They wind up married and miserable, and often either divorce or if they follow their conservative upbringing, find an outlet from their frustrations with their partner in the form of an affair. You tell me that these people would not have been better off just being single or breaking it off before it was too late. Then there's often children involved, who suffer most from the wants and fights of their unhappy parents. If these people were taught to date extensively instead of jumping into marriage with the first person who caught their eye much of that problem could be avoided.

Yes, and racism, social inequality of the sexes, sheltered ignorance and blind faith in religious leaders and government. With change comes challenges. The real problem leading to more teen pregnancies and more adultery is a lack of proper education. If kids were taught to value other people as well as themselves, taught proper and all-inclusive sex education, taught to be absolutely sure they had found the right partner for life before making such a serious commitment, these problems could be mostly avoided.

I disagree. The only thing that needs to be increased is moral values, not education. Everyone knows that if you bang the girl might get pregnant. As for adultry goes, if you one day decide you picked the wrong partner, get a divorce. Dont go cheating on him/her.

I disagree. The only thing that needs to be increased is moral values, not education.

That's absurd. If you're not increasing education, you're decreasing education. Decreasing education means you favor more ignorance over more knowledge. What are "moral values"? Who defines what is moral and what is not? I'd bet I would have a very different idea of what "moral values" are than you. This is the whole point I made about discrimination. By assuming that everyone would or should adhere to your sense of morality, you close your mind to the reality that not everyone thinks or believes what you do. What would you prefer was done to persons who disagree with your concept of right and wrong?

I disagree. The only thing that needs to be increased is moral values, not education. Everyone knows that if you bang the girl might get pregnant. As for adultry goes, if you one day decide you picked the wrong partner, get a divorce. Dont go cheating on him/her.

Now while I'm all for moral values, a person must understand that morals and norms will differ from person to person. Education is necessary because while moral values can be preached to a person, what happens when that person is out of the shadow of the person holding those values over their heads? I know many "moral" people who, after having left the shelter of ultra-strict, puritanical moral values go hog wild because the governor was turned off and everything that was repressed as "bad" or "impure" was allowed to come out. Now would you rather someone know what they're up against and be honestly advised or rather left in the dark to fend for themselves? I know how it can be...because I was one of those people. Have I had sex out of wedlock? Yes. Does that make me any worse of a person or better yet a Christian? No. why? Because I know the odds and I know my moral values and I don't try to press them onto anyone else. You may try to win over someone with your arguments, but remember that not everyone holds the same opinion and many do not take kindly to having morals forced upon them because that only creates more resentment. Remember, Jesus spent just as much time with the sinners as he did with the saints... My $0.02

A little 411..... EVERYONE my age knows what birth controll is. They simply choose NOT to use it. EVERYONE my age knows drinking and driving is bad but they CHOOSE to use it. Who has morals that say drinking and driving is ok?

And you and the rest of your classmates have the right to ostracize her and make her school life quite miserable.

My thoughts exactly.

There was this car with all the traditional Anti-American bumper stickers. But one went way over the line it said: "US Army" and had 2 Nazi Swatzikas next to it. Obviously something she made herself.

Now, hooray for the lady exercising her right to speech - but these types of people are merely trying to make a statement and annoy others. That's all it is. Plenty of Amiercans oppose our president but don't have lunatic crap like that on their cars.

So hooray for me when I threw a full 1 gallon frozen apple bottle (weighed ~10lbs) threw her windshield in the middle of the night. The stickers were off once she got a new windshield.

This was in response to her (a middle aged women, probably early 40s) vandalizing my car months earlier.

She also has the right to leave this country if she pleases, and if she is against it enough to not stand for the pledge, she should.

And you can say the pledge of allegence w/o supporting the gov't, you pledge allegence to the flag, not the government or president.

Anyone that lives in the country and "hates" it at the same time is like the hippys that hate technology but whoop out there ipods.

Some of the best writing I've ever heard in a movie. Think about this for a few minutes.

"America isn't easy.

America is advanced citizenship.

You've got to want it bad, because it's gonna put up a fight. It's gonna say, "You want free speech? Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil who is standing center stage and advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours.

You want to claim this land as the 'land of the free'? Then the symbol of your country cannot just be a flag. The symbol also has to be one of its citizens exercising his right to burn that flag in protest.

Now show me that, defend that, celebrate that in your classrooms. Then you can stand up and sing about the 'land of the free.'"

I dont care what her reasons are. No one short of jesus christ alone could give me any reason not to stand and respect soldiers dieng for my freedoms.

BTW, I want to go pro in bodybuilding. I know this will require eventual "gear" use. Because of this I will likly move to canada (only about 3 hours away from my current residence) once I start, unless the punisment for anabolic steroids becomes less severe here. Even thought I dont plan on staying all my life, as long as im here, your damn right I will respect this country.

Little 411, the mind of a teenager is hardwired to do dumb ****.. seriously dumb****, but for the most part, those of us that are parents manage to confinence most of the teenagers of the folly of doing dumb****. There are those that have to learn it the hardway

Originally Posted by davisville64

A little 411..... EVERYONE my age knows what birth controll is. They simply choose NOT to use it. EVERYONE my age knows drinking and driving is bad but they CHOOSE to use it. Who has morals that say drinking and driving is ok?