Line is not as big of problem as they are made out to be, 2 solid guards and a RT is pretty good. Saturday was a bust, no doubt. And Newhouse is not exactly tony moll, or Alan barbre.

Incompetent RBs, and McCarthy's play calling, are what is killing us.

Show me the hole that the incompetent backs should have ran through the last 4 years. I submit that there has been no hole. Mike McCarthy is pulling a Dick Cheney. He will re-invent the friggin' hole he says he has, and he don't even have that.

Our OL play has been at the very least suspect over the last few years. Especially last year. I believe it has WAY more to do with a poor C in Saturday and a HC who treats the running game as secondary in importance.

Make the run a more important part of your offense, just even out the pass/run ATT and even WITH Saturday we would have shown better. I think this is more on the coaching than anything. EDS to C or a new C altogether will be a huge improvement.

Show me the hole that the incompetent backs should have ran through the last 4 years. I submit that there has been no hole. Mike McCarthy is pulling a Dick Cheney. He will re-invent the friggin' hole he says he has, and he don't even have that.

Because finding 1 hole will prove me right?

Too easy. We have all seen the ignored cutback lanes. Do we have a mauler line? No. But there are plenty of oppourtunies that are left on the field.

Good list huh? There are the guys who (off the top of my head) we have started since 07.

How many of there guys are even on an NFL roster right now? I believe Jackson has had 1 lost season to IR, and not much else.

GB has devalued the RB position to the point where they believe that they can have sucsess by plugging in anybody they can put a uniform on. Which is not the case.With the WR core losing depth, and the Oline being banged up, and our D full of holes, I'd like to see our picks spent elsewhere but at some point if we want to have a respectable running game we will need to invest in that position.

Good list huh? There are the guys who (off the top of my head) we have started since 07.

How many of there guys are even on an NFL roster right now? I believe Jackson has had 1 lost season to IR, and not much else.

GB has devalued the RB position to the point where they believe that they can have sucsess by plugging in anybody they can put a uniform on. Which is not the case.With the WR core losing depth, and the Oline being banged up, and our D full of holes, I'd like to see our picks spent elsewhere but at some point if we want to have a respectable running game we will need to invest in that position.

Cedric Benson seemed like he was getting what was there every time. Starks was pretty good too. He could get to the corner.

As for Green, I thought he was learning to be patient playing off his blockers and to take what was there. My impression was that he learned alot from CedBen. Earlier in the season it seemed like he was trying to hit a home run on every play. He could still develop.

Starks too. He's a tall back, so he needs to run lower behind his pads in order to stay healthy.

Backups:Barclay: Improving. Below average with some potential.Sherrod: Who knows?Datko: Who knows? Just a guy at this point.Van Roten: Who knows? Just a guy at this point.Hughes: Who? Who knows?Gerhart: Who? Who knows?

Have I missed someone?

This is good enough?????

Seriously????

You need more than average + potential in your starters. Average is for back-ups.

Everyone raves about Thompson in the draft. To me, there are three parts to Thompson in the draft:

Skill positions: A. Above average as a GM. Well above average, even.Defensive front 7: B-. Average as a GM. Some home runs (Matthews), some potential-but-inconsistent (Raji), some not-bad, not-great (Hawk), some guys that are just guys.Offensive line: C-. Below average as a GM. One ginormous home-run (Sitton).

If you look at just at what he's done at WR and QB, Thompson is Stan Musial. If you look just at what he's done at OL, he's Dave Kingman.

WE NEED AN OFFENSIVE LINE THAT MATTERS. Get it? AHHHHHHHHH! Howlin' at the moon, yet again, lol

Socrates, didn't San Francisco get most of their line with top 15 draft picks - if they did this effortlessly, then must have been dog shit for a long time. Your comparison is horrible but I agree with what you said. We've taken Bulaga and Sherrod with first rounders recently - it's unfair to say isn't trying. I would like to see an interior O-lineman taken with a top pick preferable at center and who is very intelligent.

Socrates, didn't San Francisco get most of their line with top 15 draft picks - if they did this effortlessly, then must have been dog shit for a long time. Your comparison is horrible but I agree with what you said. We've taken Bulaga and Sherrod with first rounders recently - it's unfair to say isn't trying. I would like to see an interior O-lineman taken with a top pick preferable at center and who is very intelligent.

Trying isn't enough.

If you're going to have a personnel strategy that emphasizes draft to the extent that Ted's does you have to remember Mr. Miyagi:

"Try? There is no "try". Do. Or do not."

And Ted hasn't done the do.

Daryn Colledge was a 2nd round pick, too. But outside of of our fearless PH leader, whose affair with Mrs. Colledge must be on again, does anyone really think this was a winning pick?

Ted has drafted a lot of OL over his GB years. He's had one, count 'em, one, unquestionable success (Sitton). Bulaga and Sherrod have shown they have the potential....but so, ahem, did Colledge, Spitz, and Moll.

Ted has drafted a lot of OL over his GB years. He's had one, count 'em, one, unquestionable success (Sitton). Bulaga and Sherrod have shown they have the potential....but so, ahem, did Colledge, Spitz, and Moll.

Ted Thompson has completed "Do".OL Coach has completed "Do Not".

If you give someone 12 guns and they miss the target 20 yards away, you going to continue giving more guns or get someone who knows how to aim them better?

Show me the hole that the incompetent backs should have ran through the last 4 years. I submit that there has been no hole. Mike McCarthy is pulling a Dick Cheney. He will re-invent the friggin' hole he says he has, and he don't even have that.

This is not my work. It is from a member in my home forum. It is the perfect example of how NOT to run a stretch play. Enjoy.

&quot said:

Trips left against Nickel defense. DJ Williams motions from the left and looks like he's going to go across. Goes to H when no one motions with him.See him at H and Crabtree lined up at WR.Land and Sitton go for the DTs while Crabtree blocks down on the man on him. Bulaga and Williams pull right. Saturday and Newhouse go to backer. 4 players in the box no accounted for yet. Really only 3 because that backside DE isn't going to do anything.The pitch is off and everyone is looking for a block or hit their mark already. Jones comes into the screen as the last player on the right. Safety looks like he's in position to make the play.Bulaga takes out an unblocked defender (#4), Crabtree is still on his block, looks like Williams will go after defender #3 and Green will have the safety in open field.And here we go.Williams keeps pushing and there is a possible cutback lane for Green.Williams has his guy and free Saturday can try to make a play on the S.He gets him, Williams on block, and Crabtree on block still but defender #2 (non-playside backer) is free and is in position to make play.And he gets him.

JustJeff... to me, that is more the edge blockers fault for not sealing than it is the backs fault on that example. Williams allowed the defender the get outside his shoulder and hold edge contain. This forces the back to stay flat and wait for something as a cutback lane to form.. poorly executed blocking. My opinion from those angles.

Williams keeps pushing and there is a possible cutback lane for Green.

This is a perfect example of how Brandon Jackson ran the stretch and why he never developed into a bell cow back he could have been.

Guys who got by with speed in college sometimes find it hard to learn to be patient. When we run an outside stretch, Green has to be more patient, has to read his blocks better and - most importantly - has to have the vision to see the cutback lanes. That is the bread-and-butter of the zbs. You take your short gains, but when a cutback presents itself, plant the foot and go.

On this play, Williams is engaged and has inside position, driving the LB toward the sideline. Crabtree has the inside sealed. Green's read at this point is to cut it back inside. If Green took it inside if Williams he has open field vs a safety who is eight yards high and inside. This was a HUGE play that didn't happen.

Pop ahead to frames in these stills.. that cutback lane was filled.. this is not a great example of a missed opportunity by a back.. if anything it illustrates:

*A line that gets pushed back at the point of attack* Poor edge blocking by the Packers* And yes, a back that was too patient and didn't cut it up and take the minimal gain that might have been there.

That still shows that Green has discovered he isn't getting to the edge. At that point, he's sitting high with his weight back, of course the hole is filled. Jeff freakin' Saturday is outside by then [laughing]

Williams has not yet engaged. The linebacker is two yards upfield. Williams correctly moves upfield. If he aims for an outside seal, he surrenders his inside shoulder. By the time he gets on the linebacker, he takes him the only angle he can. If you want to fault Williams for being outrun, I can agree. However, he executed a block that gave Green a seam, which Green didn't have the patience to see, much less take.

What is most telling in the stills is Green's gate. He's full throttle for the edge from the start. Great backs have a habit of running 3/4 speed while using their eyes and explode into the hole as it opens. Vision is everything.

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