The Big Q: Why Would a Teacher Choose Harford County Public Schools?

With the start of school around the corner, some area school systems are reportedly scrambling to fill vacancies, including Anne Arundel County, Baltimore County, Baltimore City, and Harford County public schools.

HCPS was looking to fill 38 positions as of Thursday, according to Jillian Lader, the school system’s manager of communications. Pressed for specifics on vacancies by school level and subject area, Lader wrote in an email:

“We currently have 38 teacher vacancies, 31 of which are classroom teachers. Openings occur throughout the school system, particularly in the teaching areas where known critical shortages exist such as special education and science.

School system staff are diligently working to identify and employ any needed quality teacher replacements. 273 teachers have been hired at this time.”

New teachers are scheduled to report for duty beginning Monday.

New recruits aren’t attracted to Harford County because of top salaries. A lack of increases in recent years has ranked HCPS teacher salaries near the bottom among Maryland public school systems. So, what else might attract a teacher to work in Harford County Public Schools?

Comments

Because we know that all of Harford County citizens recognize what a hard job teaching is and show teachers the respect they deserve.

Oh, wait. That doesn’t happen at all, especially here amongst the teacher-hating Dagger readers. So, why would a teacher consider taking a job with HCPS? Because those student loan payments need to be made.

Good luck to all the new teachers in HCPS. I hope that you have found jobs in schools where the administrators want to help you and keep you, rather than in schools where they look for things you do wrong so they can force you to do it their way.

Quite easy to translate your self aggrandizement and sarcasm into objects of hatred toward others – especially since that is virtually the sum total of the teacher posted sludge here.

If you can do better – do it. Stop bitching and moaning and go do better. Do everyone a favor and go. By your attitude to folks in this county and the general situation you find yourself, it explains the crappy test scores our children suffer from. Stop persecuting the students and get the hell out. Did it ever dawn on you that maybe parents like education – they just don’t like you.

I think this is a lesson in “You Reap What You Sow.” Where do you think the most talented new teachers are going to go? If Harford County wants to retain and recruit talented teachers, they need to build a reputation of respect for teachers they have.

With many systems scrambling, those that pay better will fill positions faster. Colleges and Universities are warning their graduates to only take HCPS as a last resort. Where do you think the scramble will be filled first? Not HCPS!
Take your ridiculous comments elsewhere….

The more the teachers post, the sillier they look. Colleges got their money. You really believe that a college is warning graduates not to take a job? Hell, the grads are luck to find a job. Whom are you trying to convince?

You have no idea what you are talking about. I have had student teachers the last 3 years and they have flat out told me their advisors are telling them to only accept a job in HCPS as a last resort. Keep pretending there isn’t a problem.

Sure…. Sure…. right there in class the student teacher said so. Or, are you suggesting there was fraternization going on here? Or better, this is more made up shit from the gaggle of gubmint losers who suggest new teachers apply first to teach in Baltimore city because it pays more…. sure.

The real question: Why spend thousands for a college education to become a teacher? The nation wants to blame teachers for the failures of ANY child at a time when 1 in 4 children lives in poverty and many parents are unable to find meaningful work. Why go into debt to work in a field that will not reward you for working hard, and HCPS will most likely reward you at the end of your first year by saying newly hired non tenured teachers are being cut. Again….

Well, if one in four children live in poverty, I guess there aren’t a whole lot of jobs out there. Maybe teachers should count their blessings and learn out to teach poor children. Isn’t that what they are paid to do? Or, do they think that all they need is an excuse?

Application Support Analyst – $44,877. Requirements are basically anyone who sat working on a computer doing similar, boring stuff. They would like someone with an AA Degree it appears, but my tinfoil tells me they would take someone with experience just the same. 12 month job? Probably, basically, year round.

Welding Teacher at HTHS – $41,583. The applicant would basically need to have at least a decade of trade experience to be able to successfully instruct newbies. The applicant would also have to get a teaching certificate in this state at some point, and all the other various requirements and training that is needed.

Good luck finding anyone worth a damn (for the shit pay) these days to replace long tenured, respected trade teachers who throw in the towel, or retire. It aint happening, and hasn’t been happening.

You do realize most teachers work in the summer. You also realize that our wonderful County Council (if their raises go through) will basically make as much or more than any teacher with a Masters degree and 10 years experience or less for working part time. Quit commenting on topics you have no idea about.

Just check out the BLS statistics, the new jobs being created pay 23% less than they did 4 years ago – oh, with no pension and crap medical.

The teachers posting in this forum are delusional about finding jobs that pay much more than 40 – 50k that have any real benefits at all. The country is filled with college indebted students who cannot find employment.

The reason the current teaching jobs are open are because hardly anybody fits the requirements. The teachers want to be artsy – fartsy so they can have a job and be a political activist.

Notice how the editorial didn’t mention the number of teaching jobs open per other counties.

As for nobody fitting the requirements, that’s because (for Harford Tech Trade positions) nobody worth a damn (making a lot more money/looking for a change) hits the “apply button” after seeing a $41,000 salary.

A 10 year welder (depending on job) can easily make double, if not double and a half of what the advertised starting HCPS salary is for the trade teacher position. If they are smart, they wont need a pension, and if they are healthy and stay safe, they wont need top of the line medical insurance. Having a family can be expensive, but the HUGE difference in pay of the private sector trade makes up for it.

I’m sure there are PLENTY of private sector tradesmen willing to make a move or a change in their career, and are willing to be a trade teacher, unfortunately, NOT for the money HCPS wants to pay them.

Amen to that. The Department of Defense school for welding used to be located at Aberdeen Proving Ground prior to re-location due to BRAC. They taught 100’s of welders each year for the various branches of our military. Can’t say how many of the instructors had a masters degree, but it would have to be very few. Most didn’t even have a college education, but they sure knew how to teach welding.

Yep! You got me! Post the welder salary statistics! I’m sure you can find many welding jobs with a start salary lower than an HCPS teacher if you look hard enough!

I must be full of shit! HTHS had a welding instructor for what, nearly 3 decades? Retired in, what? Mid-2000ish? Seems to me, HTHS just can’t find a replacement. Been a job opening for nearly 7 months.

Them $36,000 a year welders should be flooding the human resource department, considering they will make more, and work less, right? LOL!!!

The original welding teacher at Tech left because he was terminally ill with cancer. His replacement was a former student of his with a bunch of time in the navy welding. He left after 3 years to work on the oil rigs for more than double his HCPS salary after not getting a raise. Same with the machining teacher. My friend told me the animal science teacher retired so she could take a part time state job that pays only a couple thousand less than what she made full time with HCPS.
Our state, actually our country hates their teachers so in the end that means that it money that talks. If you’re not going to get any respect and be blamed for everything it might as well be for the most money you can get.
And as far as summers off…as my friend keeps telling me, anyone can have summers off without pay like they do.

“The teachers want to be artsy – fartsy so they can have a job and be a political activist.”

That is, without a doubt, one of the dumbest things I have read this month. Very few of the teachers I know have any interest whatsoever in being a political activist. Most would prefer to teach and have nothing to do with politics.

What a crock – and with blinders. There isn’t a more one party politically active group in the country. Just keep votin’ and sellin’ the way you do – and blame everything on everybody else (as long as they are in the other party, that is). See if ole Brownie comes in and saves you.

Go ahead and get that broad brush out and paint all teachers the same color. For what it’s worth, on most issues I am a libertarian who generally votes Republican. I know plenty of teachers who lean conservative. And to reiterate my point, most teachers I know would rather just teach without any politics involved. So quit teacher bashing, quit assuming you know everything, and quit generalizing.

As a Harford county resident, I hope talented and enthusiastic teaching applicants want to teach here! Is teaching a hard and demanding job? Absolutely! Are they over worked and unappreciated? Unfortunately yes, but most folks who select this vocation go into it with their eyes wide open, and teaching is not the only profession like this. However this does not excuse the lack of pay increases; our teachers are well overdue. As residents we should take pride in our community and our youth. It is a nice area to live and I would hope a teaching applicant would look at the tangibles as well as the intangibles when applying here. I hope they find good qualified applicants but it is late in the game, many of the strong applicants have already signed contracts elsewhere, which is unfortunate. Let’s hope our government can find the funds to pay more competively!

I’m in Pa. My daughter just got a teaching job in AACPS, so I’m reading the Md. news with interest. I’m also a teacher in Pa. Here is what I know from scratching and clawing for everything I have: you teachers who are commenting in here are arguing with idiots, and nobody has ever won an argument with an idiot. People think they only pay teachers, police, fire, etc., but they don’t realize that unless your money is dropped from a helicopter, they’re paying everyone else too. Everyone’s paycheck comes from everyone else’s wallet…not just public servants’ paychecks. Don’t argue with them.

I guess you think you are being profound – you know, ‘it takes a village’ and ‘you didn’t build that’ insinuations all wrapped up in a stand-in-a-circle-and-pass-around-the-money douche-baggery.

Here is a clue: what makes you so bright for thinking you are making a point to MD teachers by posting in a forum festooned with idiots? It makes as much sense as the MD teachers thinking they are making a point by posting in the same forum. The only idiots in this forum and you and your fellow teachers – the rest of us are having fun throwing the facts in your face.

I’ll reply, then mind my own business. You’re not all idiots, my apologies. I get very defensive sometimes because we work hard, get master’s degrees, do valuable work, work with great kids, and also put up with kids you wouldn’t want to spend your day with. The job can be fun and rewarding, but we shouldn’t have to beg and worship everyone else so that we can have a nice living. We’re not the only ones with our paws in your piggy banks. In my experience, the worst teacher-bashers are the people who pay the least into the system, and get the most out of it. Educated professionals don’t seem to mind us so much. Up here in Pa., people seem to have more tolerance for welfare leeches than for their teachers. I hope things work out.

Don’t be so humble. You are by far the most amusing of all. Your buffoonery has provided me some of the best entertainment on the web. The most amusing fact is that you actually believe your intellect is superior and that people take you seriously. It doesn’t matter how many times you change your alias, your still spout the same BS. You seemed to be the most obsessed with the teachers. Your behavior has made most of my friends more sympathetic to the teachers in this county. You have become the poster child for the “ugly” Harford County citizen. I think that union rep should pay you. You are doing more for the cause of teachers than he is on here. Keep it up. Have a wonderful day. I know I will.

Bill,
The problem is that MD does not use the PA/NJ model for school districts. HCPS is 9 high schools with no independent taxing authority. The district needs to be broken down into smaller chunks (1-2 high schools each) and given the power to tax separately from the rest of the county. That would cause an immediate spike in school funding and allow parents better control of their kids’ schools.

The problem with this plan? The Route 40 corridor would suddenly lose all of their magnet school attendees, and a big chunk of their funding.

Fancy you see the problem as the inability to tax more. Gee! what a surprise insight you have. Perhaps your buddies downstate can just approve a piggy-back tax on the rain tax (piggy is appropriate no?) Or how about a climate type ‘hot for teacher’ tax – nice ring to it.

Of course, any thinking person would have noticed the flight of folks into PA who are willing to make the long drive back to MD to work. Do you think it is because they want to pay higher taxes in PA so the teachers can earn more?

Hot for teacher tax:
I’d gladly pay more taxes for schools if the money directly benefited my kids. Paying taxes where I live, to attempt to keep Edgewood teens in school and to bus the smartest kids from my neighborhood to EHS and AHS just so those schools can claim they’re not complete disasters is ridiculous.

Kahrn
If I’m correct, the colleges are still taking money and putting out teachers. Notice none of the bashers are trying to get in on it, even though it’s so wonderful. They wouldn’t last a week. Thanks for all you do.

Sorry for the assumption, but thanks just the same. Your point makes a lot of sense. Smaller districts with their own teacher contracts and tax system would make it easier to pay teachers according to the cost of living within that school district. It would also encourage teachers to live and interract locally. Anyway, it looks like the disagreements are everywhere. I started teaching for $6,500 a year, and I don’t remember anyone outside of teaching carrying on about the teacher salaries. Glad I’m 2 years and out.

The problem with NJ’s model is that every town/township has its own school/admin infrastructure to pay for, with no efficiencies of a county-wide system. I attended K-12 in NJ, born and raised, and lived most of my life there. While I will always consider it home, our taxes in MD for a comparable home are far lower than NJ, mostly because of the county-wide school funding model. Be careful what you ask for, because if we follow NJ, your property taxes will skyrocket overnight.

With salary and benefits, the teacher makes 60k. It also has other requirements that a basic welder does not match. Concerning your nonsense on what welders make, it wasn’t much fun to have to choke on the facts, was it?

I have no trouble disbelieving you. Besides, 38 open slots out of almost 3k positions looks pretty good. You certainly aren’t going to panic and realize that your one party buddies downstate need replacing. It’s all good.

Do you think I post to get a jerk from jerks? How about you impress the people who pay your salary by upping the test scores of your students. Oh, that’s right…. the admins are mean, no atta-boys from the taxpayers. students too poor to learn, I have a college loan, neighbor drives a BMW…. blah…. blah.

“Oh Lord, won’t you buy me a Mercedes Benz. My friends all drive Porches. I must make amends.” (rest in peace Janis.)

“Sometimes you make it just too easy. You always prove my point.” – Like a punch-drunk boxer who cannot see clearly out of either eye, you declare yourself a winner on the way to the hospital. Can you do anything that is unpredictable, ever?

Since when does bitching and moaning about a problem ever solve it? Since when does blaming others for your failure prove a point? Since when does making shit up carry greater weight than the BLS very own statistical numbers? Since when is a job with a salary, medical and a pension not a good job?

When you all had the opportunity to join with the well paid blue collar union workers and save those jobs, you ran your noses up in the air. You let the politicians and Corporate bosses play you for the fools that you are. Now, you’re running around trying to find those invisible billionaires to tax in order to give yourself a raise. You weren’t smart then and you are not smart now.

I cannot read the dagger anymore. It saddens me that people go out of their way to act the way they do toward teachers. Teachers spend their lives helping others be better in everything they do. They should be looked upon as a great benefit to our society as they teach our youth and mold them to be productive members of society. Education is the foundation of every great society. If you truly love your country and value common sense reasoning, problem solving skills and those who help innovate and change our society for the better you need to embrace the idea that those who have the greatest impact on young minds are educators. They deserve our praise.

The public needs to be educated on economics. Public employees get their income and benefits from all of society. So do all other employees. Newspaper editors and other media get their income and benefits from advertising revenues…which is paid for by the rest of society at the cash register. They all want to say “I pay your salary, I own you”, but someone forgot to tell them the teachers pay theirs as well. It’s a difficult point to get across, as you’ll see from any haters who reply.

You can’t spend government money twice. You know zilch about economics, which means you must be a teacher. All the over-paid government deadbeats will have their day of reckoning.

Only real wealth is generated in the private sector, of which the government takes a portion for supposed necessary services. The money government employees pass around is a paper ruse as far as a true economy is concerned. That is why the national debt is 17 trillion and why the states are always looking for higher taxes.

But, you will never figure it all out. You will just wonder what happened when it all collapses.

So you mean to say that when I cash my HCG check and I spend it at your shop you aren’t really benefiting from my purchase? What kind of economics school did you attend? News for you, real wealth is not tied down to wages! it is tied down to assets such as equity, real estate, stock and bonds. You are thinking really small, which isn’t surprising to your paycheck? You will never become rich or wealthy from wages as they just pay the bills. Save some of those wages and apply for all the tax credits the govt gives you (which I am sure you do) and save that money to buy hard assets that will grow in value over time such as stocks, bonds or real estate. other news, a defined pension benefit is also not wealth since it can be cut or it goes away when one dies. So to recap, what you earn isn’t what you keep hence not wealth, at it stands wealth is what you have left if any.

The pension liability is yours and the benefit is mine since that’s what was offered to me when I became employed. I don’t begrudge you any money you make with your employer and all I ask is that mine be respected and funded as part of my compensation. I get paid on average less than my comparable private sector professionals and I just want what I signed up for, not a penny less. The elected officials job is to determine priorities going forward and fund the respective pension funds fully so that the taxpayer going forward will not have to be on the hook for liabilities that haven’t been funded. Pay more taxes or cut the fat, but my benefits should be protected as I worked for them. In essence, I am paying it forward for my retirement and you aren’t paying your fair share as a taxpayer because the govt has chosen to allocate less than the liability demands. Pay up!

Most government employees make more than the private sector…. and these days quite a bit more since there are no full time private sector jobs to be had. And, guess what, it doesn’t matter what anybody gets promised if the there is no money there in the end.

There is always the unlimited power of the govt to tax. There are plenty of jobs out there and while some jobs pay more in government, many others don’t. Since I was speaking about my job, I am pretty sure how much I make compared to others. Don’t let facts get in the way of your preconceived notions.

You sum up the most grand delusions of our modern time. First, that there is a limitless pool of money for the the government to tax – being completely ignorant, as you are, that the government is already printing money because they cannot find enough real wealth to tax. How purely, purely stupid your comment is.

Second, the grand delusion that there are plenty of jobs. There are 92 million working age people not working – all of them fallen completely out of the labor pool as though they no longer exist as human beings. Are they lazy? Are they mentally defective? Truth is, there are no jobs, and what jobs have developed are in the service sector with low pay and part time work. Again, how purely, purely stupid your comment is.

Dude, maybe you can’t hack it in the private sector as for me, I have turned down private work a plenty. People with marketable skills can and do make money because their skills are in demand. You mean to tell me that an illegal alien can get work roofing or landscaping but an American can’t? I do realize we aren’t completely out of the recession but my wife owns a business and activity has picked up quite considerably. I don’t know what world you live in but in good old Harford County, the shops are busy, restaurants are full, car sales are up and the stock market is doing quite well. Maybe you can’t hack it in the private sector and you probably can’t hack it in the govt sector either. Get a job and get of your ass.

Not your friend – just a student of history. I am the guy laughing at you when you finally find out that somebody had to make an honest living so their taxes could pay for you – and that string has run out. Half of government employees have been useful idiots adding to the bloat for votes. Well, with all the debt and no body left to squeeze, even you will not matter.

Such disdain for govt workers instead of the elected officials that created this mess. I don’t see any impending doom that this county, state or country is going bankrupt. I do think between those that don’t pay any and those that pay too much there is anger towards anyone associated with govt work. There needs to be a balance between a service provided and a cost of providing it. there are benefits to having a well run govt, but when the cost is too high it almost pays to not work and just live off someone else’s sweat. Govt can’t expect the rich and the middle class to just pay for 47% to get tax credits and refunds for money they haven’t paid into the system. If you have children you raise them, if you need food then get a job.

I am once retired from the Army but don’t let my retirement from honest hard work and my now employment with HCG just as equally reward but less demanding get in the way of your contempt for govt workers. Our job is one done with pride and just as much dedication. Your inability to grasp what we do for you comes with the territory. Being a govt worker has its perks for sure, but higher pay isn’t really one of them. Give me my pension in the Army as I earned it with sweat, blood and tears and give me mine in the next job because my experience, skills and abilities give the county a great service even if you don’t have a clue what I do. Pay up!!

You guys just don’t get it. Free rides about over. Dreamers and gubmint bloodsucks will be what pretty much remains in Md. All the rest of the taxpayers are making so little you can’t get much. Wait until the tax hits the medical plans and the stock market makes its 60% adjustment. Personally, I will be laughing when they toss you deadbeats in the street. When the 25% of all MD employees are government employees and they get gutted to 10% – it will be fun. Pay up says you. Too funny.

One can think back to when they drove the WW1 vets off the streets in DC when they were protesting not getting their war bonus. It can happen again. You can protest all you want when your pension isn’t there. Then you will find out what all that surplus military equipment given to the police was really for. The bell tolls for you.

be it mostly blue or blue balls as you call it, wishing you would place the blame where it lies. Congress needs to grow some and deal with the entitlement situation, corporate welfare and all the other stuff that our govt spends money about. It is jerkoffs like you that blame the little guy, GM got a $40 billion write off when they filed for BK and owes the feds billions they don’t have to pay back. The military complex keeps building planes and ships the Air Force and Navy don’t need thus creating a surplus of perfectly functioning machinery that is then transferred to NATO at the cost of billions annually. Yet, you focus your angst on federal workers, their pay and their pensions. The Army is set to close commissaries that our lowly paid soldiers depend on to feed their families while they serve abroad to care for other country’s problems. We have basically defunded NASA and now we depend on the new USSR to get to the airspace station which we fund but don’t have a ship to get there. All your bitching while 47% don’t pay ANY income taxes and in effect get refunds from everyone else’s money. Corporations such as Burger King become foreign owned corporation to avoid paying taxes in the USA. That doesn’t seem to bother you but if I get a pension (which I earned) and now work a 2nd job and pay my bills (between my wife and I, we paid over $70K in tax last year) And you feel the world is coming to an end because I get a measly $$$. Why don’t you look deeper than my bank account and see what else is going on around us that is more important. About 20% of the federal budget today is reserved to pay interest on the debt. That has been caused by both republicans and democrats.

The hazard county taxpayer has been getting a free ride. Property taxes or income taxes have not increased in the past 12 years and the property tax receipts aren’t up yet due to the decrease in home prices. The only ones getting a free ride is the taxpayer in this county. Last week I spoke with a guy complaining about his property taxes all the while he has Raven’s tickets, PSL’s and BMW. Try moving to PA and get hit with a school tax as my brother in law and sister found out thinking MD was so expensive, yes property taxes are less in PA but the school tax will kill your budget.

We all pay each-other. We all pay public employees, and we all pay private sector employees. The money circulates. Unless your money is actually printed where you work, or dropped from the sky, you get it from everyone else. As consumers, everyone pays everyone else. All of our incomes come from the rest of society. I don’t know how that is arguable. You earn money, give some in taxes so that public employees make money, you spend the rest on goods and services so that others can make money, meanwhile, others are spending their money on your goods or services, and back to “you earn money”. Teacher-bashers will continue to bash and hate, they can say we don’t get it, they can keep bashing, insulting, and name-calling, but it’s still true. They get their income from from the same place we do: everyone else.

Your concept of wealth generation is right out of some rabbit hole. You are clueless. If it makes you feel better? Go ahead and think the way you do. I guess this is Common Core economics that allows you to think that tax dollars do not pay for government…. you know, like we are all one big commie commune, just spreading around the same dollar, spending it over and over and over.

Just so you know: real wealth comes from something that is actually created in the private sector. The government takes a slice: if that slice is passed around (and folks like you count it two or three times), it is still the same slice. Once it is out of the private economy, the first time, it is gone. You cannot keep making more deck chairs for the Titanic from the same amount of wood.

So, the idea that we are all the same, private and public is a ruse. We are not all the same – just paying each other. If it makes you and your edu-babble cabal feel better? Go for it. You believe everybody could work for the government and simply tax each other to pay each other’s salaries… do see how dumb that really is? It is dumb because nobody would be creating any wealth to tax.

First, I never called you “dumb” like you called me. And I never said we could all work for the government, nor could we all work where you do. We all do different things. Also, once the government takes our money, they spend it back, or they pay people who, in turn spend it back. I’m not arguing they take a huge slice of the pie. Much of it is wasted, but school spending shouldn’t be your first complaint. We waste more of it in other places. It would be interesting to know how much we spend on welfare and illegal aliens. Even if your number one problem with your tax dollar is school spending,

(maybe I am dumb….just pressed the wrong button) Anyway, even if your number one problem is school spending, I wish you knew how much of it is wasted there….it’s not on teachers who are teaching. We have 4 times the amount of special ed spending that we had 10 years ago. Kids who need it deserve it, but we spend a ton on kids who are just lazy….a word we’re not allowed to use. Anyway, I’ll never convince you that I earn every nickel I make, just like you and any other hard-worker out there.

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Sounding Off

“Was not Lincoln elected via the electoral college? The answer is YES. GD”