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Maybe it's not settling. Maybe it's understanding what your choices are and accepting it and learning to like what your choices are.

A good analogy would be bacon. In the store There's a wide variety of kinds. Some are cheap, some are medium cost and some rather expensive. Sure, you might want the expensive bacon but at $11 a pound it just isn't possible if you only have $5 to spend on bacon. So then you forget about it being an option and focus on things in your price range. Doesn't mean you can't enjoy bacon. Bacon is still bacon.

There are a lot of less-than-stellar-looking people married or in a relationship with other less-than-stellar-looking people and they are happy. They learned to appreciate the choices they had.

Kissfromarose77: We all have to settle for someone we can get or do without. Otherwise, we would all be seeking movie stars. Also, you might see this and you might see that. However, almost always when I see couples, especially young couples whether husbands, boyfriends, or dates, they appear to in the same league and have close to the same level of attractiveness. I realize that if the guy is a doctor or otherwise has lots of money then he is an exception.

When getting into a relationship, we All are settling for what we can get -- happily or not. :)

In the OP's case, there are lots of big girls that he could date and maybe a few average looking girls; however, my impression is that he wants one of the more attractive girls and unless he become rich, that is not going to happen.

If he's an average Joe not short, he's basically going to be able to get average Janes + a periodic above-average Jodi if he's patient. If he is short, I agree that he has to aim (solidly) lower for day to day opportunties, but with some patience, above-average social connections made, and decent "strategry", he'll get average Jane opportunities once in a while. But for either average Joe, short or not short, getting that "high end" catch on looks -- he'll need Luck to have solid Compatibility to go with it (for an LTR; marriage-worthy).

Kelley, if men settled for any girl they could get physical intimacy would be impossible.

Actually if he truly settled for any gal they could get, physical intimacy would be Incredibly possible. If he gets the gal, he gets physical intimacy.

I don’t see any correlation between height and weight because being obese is simply not healthy.

That wouldn't nix it from being a correlation, tho. That said, I agree that it's comparing apples & oranges because they're two different concepts affecting things differently. As opposed to Europe, the US is more used to folks with extra pounds. Guys are more willing to settle for gals who can lose some weight VS gals going for guys who are the shorter end of the stick. Said gals can lose weight, going from clearly "fat" to truly just a few extra pounds (normal), or the latter to a nice body... short guys can't do the same. That's why, IMO, it's an uneven correlation.

n real life I’ve seen short men with slim women, and I’ve seen tall men with fat women. The reality in the real world is totally different from online dating.

I agree it is different IRL vs Online. Online is much more picky about looks. The more one winces at meeting someone online, the more picky on looks it is -- even if they don't think looks is some "yuge" thing. That said, again, short men with slim women or tall men with fat women -- that's comparing apples & oranges. They can be in the same 'league'. Just because a guy who's 5'5" is going out with a 5'1" gal and she's slim, doesn't mean she's out of his league. Face is #1 (good from far, but far from good?). And plenty of tall guys may not have a great body or face when going out with a gal who needs to shed more than just a few extra pounds.

However, almost always when I see couples, especially young couples whether husbands, boyfriends, or dates, they appear to in the same league and have close to the same level of attractiveness.

That's true. When it sticks out that they aren't tho -- we must always remember our human biases: When we want to hear good encouraging news (or unencouraging news) -- what sticks out ends up carrying more weight in our minds than really is.

If of every 50 couples you see a gal taller than the guy, you'll think it happens all the time. They stick out more from the crowd, and it burns in your memory more. In actuality, it's 2% even though "I see that all the time!" (which in a non-small town, you're going to see more than 50 guy-girl walking side-by-side on what seems to be 'together' every day). And also, you don't Really know if they're a couple. Could just be out on a date that's not going anywhere, or "just friends", etc. Not to mention that upon observation, she's wearing tall heels and he's really a good inch taller than she IRL, but a couple inches shorter when dolled up for the night.

A better analogy is purchasing hamburger. Stores separate them and price them by overall fat content as a percentage.

Far too many people BELIEVE they NEED to afford their meat at a certain level. 93/7, 90/10, 85/15, whatever - they have decided for their purposes to select the stuff by that number, and work to afford the price for that level. Arguments can be made for their choice sixteen ways to Sunday - but hamburger is still hamburger.

What's crazy about their choice - is how the rest of the world uses hamburger - is irrelevant. Both fast food sources AND most casual dining places use burgers incredibly high in fat, but we don't outright refuse meals because of it, right? Some of the best, lean, disease-free hamburger out there comes from exotic sources - wild game, buffalo farms, elk and so on - but people cringe at the mere idea of it, often without any real thought of how the stuff is produced - because it's not a 'natural' choice to go after something out of the ordinary. People want their CHOICE, because they chose it for themselves - and that is all that really matters. Never mind any logical argument people can make about flavor or health consequences - they decided that number on the label is really all that matters.

Kissfromarose77: We all have to settle for someone we can get or do without. Otherwise, we would all be seeking movie stars. Also, you might see this and you might see that. However, almost always when I see couples, especially young couples whether husbands, boyfriends, or dates, they appear to in the same league and have close to the same level of attractiveness. I realize that if the guy is a doctor or otherwise has lots of money then he is an exception.

Yes, but if there’s not enough attraction so a guy can get it up or that a woman can get her juices flowing, sex is not possible. A relationship without sex is just a friendship. I’ve never understood the female mentality of making exceptions for men with money or status. If I’m not physically attracted to a woman, I don’t care if she is a doctor - I couldn’t date her.

Yes, but if there’s not enough attraction so a guy can get it up or that a woman can get her juices flowing, sex is not possible. A relationship without sex is just a friendship. I’ve never understood the female mentality of making exceptions for men with money or status. If I’m not physically attracted to a woman, I don’t care if she is a doctor - I couldn’t date her.

That might be true if women were faithful, but we are not designed to be faithful. We are designed to keep our options open. Typically women seek a good protector and provided and what better provider than a man with money. It is not necessary to be physically attracted to him because we excel and faking it. Then when we are ovulating or close and if the risk of discovery is very low, we have sex with the Alpha male; that is we choose the best genes for our egg. That's a significant evolutionary advantage. Women that were not inclined to do that are not our ancestors.

Actually, at least in modern time, the human female is the most faithful of all the female bird and mammal species. Only about 10% of their children are not sired by their husband and/or the presumed father.

I would think as a short male that searching for much shorter women would be more fruitful. Have you guys considered that?

Have you read ANY of the entries in this dozen or so pages of statements?Guys can search for anything they want height-wise, AND anything they don't want. It does not matter.It's not a question of what GUYS should search for - it's what WOMEN are willing to accept.

How can searching for 'shorter' be more fruitful when even shorter women believe their match is above-average in height? They want (and require) SUPERIOR matches, not just slightly taller. The Height-in-Heels thing is a perfect example of that. It's not enough to be slightly taller than them 360 days a year - they gotta be taller on New Years Eve and a half dozen other occasions when they decide to forgo comfortable footwear for something stacked and expensive.

If the guys outnumber the women 2.5 to 1 in here, and half the guys are below 5'10" and pretty much totally ignored in most search parameters - then you tell me - isn't it more fruitful for a shorter lady to lower their height minimums? It's a DUH on an epic scale.

Some people still don't understand the difference in the sexes and online behavior. Women get more attention in here on an epic scale. The more average (or even ugly) Janes get more messages than most ordinary (and even some of the attractive ) Joes do. Women can merely change their mind to change an outcome - they have pretty much all the power - but instead of using it to test possibilities - they hide behind their ever-lengthening grocery lists of 'Must-haves' and refuse to take a risk for anything outside of what they think is 'perfect' for them. Guys are left blowing in the wind. All we can do is try to gain attention through profiles and messages and such, but after a few hundred ignored or 'unread-deleted' messages, even pretending to be the charismatic superhero online loses its luster.

Regardless of what prejudices may exist in the real world in politics, the workplace, or whatever - the online dating thing is a DIFFERENT type of community. But just like there are limits to power in the real world, there is in here, too. If every women in here wants the same type of guy, you can't ALL have him - unless you're willing to share, or get lied to about it. That's not some made-up rule - that's simply supply and demand.

Pretending not to settle, or saying 'No' a million times over doesn't add to your power in any way. Making mistakes and learning from them does. What drives me crazy is how a small handful of failures gets equated to the whole damn human race, when the truth is more like people don't want to learn what they did wrong - they just want to blame someone else for it. Height doesn't equate to personality or compatibility any more than shoe size does - and ANYone in here - male, female, tall, short, white, dark, rich, poor - can be an azzhole - not just by what they say or do to other people, but by the attitude they hold in silent judgement.

It starts to feel like the guy is small and short if he is under 5'10". Even though I'm only 5'-5'1". My boyfriend is 5'10" but I am used to 6' pretty much. It doesn't feel weird though. I have dated a guy that was under 5'10" and it just felt weird because he was too close to my height and shape/build. Generally taller the better but not more than like 6'4". Generally broader the better but it can nake sex difficult.

That might be true if women were faithful, but we are not designed to be faithful. We are designed to keep our options open.

WOW. Guys are designed to be faithful and women aren't? LOL. Hey, I agree that women-in-general are not the way P.C. society makes it out to be (women Vary; there is no company uniform; they are more like men than one wants to believe; it's not Mars & Venus, but more like NY vs LA) -- but in modern times, both are ~equally faithful/non-faithful when it comes down to it, when both are single no-kids, socialites, etc.

You've convinced yourself of this fantasy that men-are-faithful / women-aren't as The Way, when no, sorry, that's not the reality. The guy should be ball-banging a hottie behind your back just as much as you sneak in the bathroom at a party to do with the same with another guy. :)

I would think as a short male that searching for much shorter women would be more fruitful. Have you guys considered that?

Uhhh, have you ever considered reading about it? :) The concern/argument/debate/etc isn't about shorter guys not being able to get taller women. It's that short women still generally aren't interested in guys who are one of the short guys in the room.

sometimes we see someone slender with an overweight partner and think that love conquers all, but don't know that when they met, they were both slender, and since the commitment, one partner has, er, relaxed. Other couples I've witnessed, I swear someone didn't use a condom during a drunken hookup....they are not happy, they aren't in the same league, and they have a kid. And I think some couples do come closer once they have a child, but of course, the divorce rate suggests....happiness isn't forever.

Generally speaking, a shorter woman may be even more interested in a taller guy--who else is going to get the can of flour on the top shelf? :) She may feel even more in need of being protected, tho it seems like those who prefer taller men the most, tend to be ones with an absent father.

of course, it all depends upon what the short guy wants--if he wants a partner, all he has to do is find one woman who won't hold height against him. Someone who wants to date around...

...of course, it all depends upon what the short guy wants--if he wants a partner, all he has to do is find one woman who won't hold height against him.

Where is the freaking magic wand that allows a guy to realize what women REALLY want? Because they sure as hell aren't stating it in their profiles.Oh, yeah - we're supposed to try and try again and again and again until WE find THEM. Because God knows THEY are not going to do the work.---------------------------------------Never mind the criticism for being boring or repetitive or sending messages not truly interested or inspired. "Rejection?!? You're a man! Suck it up! Get going! --- No, no, no, sir - that's not my job - I tried it - once - and it didn't work - and I felt crappy because of it. I won't feel like that again."---------------------------------------Heck, most don't know what they want, anyway. That's why people keep finding partners when they 'stop' looking - because it's not the search that's the problem - it's the pretentious wall of fear and ignorance we throw up when we decide to 'try'.---------------------------------------Here's a news flash - you're not 'looking' for anything if you are only responding to people who send stuff to you. That's a response, not a search.

That is not what I said; nor did I imply it. If cheating is defined as having sex with another person when either or both or married or have a significant other the number of cheats are identical for men and women. The difference is a few exceptionally attractive men cheat a lot and most women cheat a little.

For a one night stand women demand an exceptionally attractive man. http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2009-08-12/news/0908110068_1_attractive-men-higher-standards

The average looking man have few if any opportunities except from women from the bottom of the barrel. Below average men have no opportunities unless they buy it. Therefore, more women then men cheat even though given the opportunity men are far more willing to cheat.

Men are only as faith full as their options. If a woman wants to see a committed man go visit a prison. A ring on a finger is not going to keep a man faith full . That is why some married men have mistresses. In fact some women chase after married men.

Yes you did. In another thread. You flat out said women weren't designed to be faithful (thus it's OK not to be), and that guys aren't to cheat (implying guys aren't designed that way). Do you forget the other posts you made in other threads? :)

A relationship without sex is just a friendship. I’ve never understood the female mentality of making exceptions for men with money or status. If I’m not physically attracted to a woman, I don’t care if she is a doctor - I couldn’t date her.

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That might be true if women were faithful, but we are not designed to be faithful. We are designed to keep our options open. Typically women seek a good protector and provided and what better provider than a man with money. It is not necessary to be physically attracted to him because we excel and faking it.

It's hard to translate that any other way - 'Design' in the general sense is usually referring to genetic tendencies - Women being nurturers and men being hunters, that kind of thing. That hasn't flip-flopped in an evolutionary sense, and won't for a very long time. As a nineteen year old, you may feel your PLAN for relationships is keeping options open, but 'Design' is not the same word. Faking attraction works with young men to some extent, but usually after a decade or two, guys learn to stop putting up with that BS.

The argument in this thread is trying to point out the futility of discrimination by a number - because after a decade or two of ladies' dating failures, keeping "options open" absurdly seems to no longer BE an option. They are totally, completely - and understandably - fed up with 'faking it' - but the only way that will change is to BE REAL - both with a partner - AND to yourself. Realizing what is compatible and practical - and what is a wish list of toys out of the Christmas Catalog - is the trouble going on here.

I’m sure a few of the ladies that contact you first are attractive, right? What happens with them?

Define what you mean by a 'few'. Because it's not a 'few' an hour, or a day, or even a month. Aside from scammer profiles, the 'few' genuine messages that ordinary Joes get are coming from a fraction of a fraction of the women in here. That is ANY message. AT ALL. Screening for attractiveness doesn't even come into play at that point - and many women in online dating have a real hard time wrapping their head around that. Sure, guys can screen messages, same as women - replying to whom we deem attractive - but please, please understand the numbers game going on here. A guy may reply to three of sixteen messages he gets in here - but it takes MONTHS to get sixteen messages, not days, or hours. It's the difference between shooting a bullet, or throwing it.

Danimal, not sure why you’re so hung up on height, 5’8” isn’t short, perhaps it’s just the excuse given from women, because the chemistry wasn’t there for other reasons, too me a short guy is more like 5’6” and under, you will find a woman that is good with your height.good luck bud

Height is never given as an 'excuse' for not meeting. This isn't about rejection AFTER connecting. This isn't about my own success or failures. The only reason height becomes that kind of rejection reason is if someone lies about their height up front.

This is about what people block out of existence, sight unseen. This is about what people demand up front. This is about when someone does lie about that single statistic, how many more people read into profiles instead of ignoring them. It's extraordinary how a number changes everything.

Stuff like this happens in on line dating all the time, because at the end of the day, people are lazy about this. Searching for a partner, working with someone through their quirks and personalities, all that stuff - we don't want to do it. We set out profile, pick our fantasy, and basically forget it until someone comes along that fits the description. We create our own lives as single people, and refuse to change them to accommodate anyone. "THEY have to complete ME" kind of bullsh1t mentality.

Change your preferences up once in a while, people. Guys - try searching the 'BBW' ranks. Ladies - pull off the height minimums and the stupid idea anyone shorter has a Napoleon complex. Do a fraction of the work for once in your life and see what happens.

When people aka women have many options little things can become big game changers and may mean loss of interest.Especially when there are a lot of guys also wanting attention at the same time. So they can't possibly reply to everyone. It becomes a very picky choosey business.

Searching for a partner, working with someone through their quirks and personalities, all that stuff - we don't want to do it.

The willingness to do that usually comes after they meet some sort of bare minimum of standards we are looking for in a partner.

Too many people look at online dating as a catalogue BUT if it's working for someone, finding someone in their parameters, then why stop what works? Remember the old saying "Shoot for the moon". As has been said, guys outnumber girls on here by a lot so obviously it's going to be more difficult for them. Maybe online dating just isn't the way to go for many men. Think about it, if half the single ladies aren't online dating, they must be in the real world and because the onus is on guys to do the asking...they need to get themselves into an environment to do so. I know it's unfair but it's not up to girls to go find themselves a man, historically and presently still, it's still usually the male that seeks out and pursues the female of the species. Perhaps that's the reason many women do not go on online dating.

I agree. To me, short guys are 5'6 and lower. And there's a lot of short guys who do find dates online and relationships and I think some short guys use it as an excuse, to justify why they can't find someone.

An interesting statistic taken from the U.S. 41% of women and 35% of men ages 18 to 65 are overweight or obese but when you take out the 18-29 category and just look at the 30-65 category, 54% of women are overweight and obese and 39% of men. So men looking for a woman who isn't overweight or obese have an even more difficult time finding someone. And for those that refuse to date single mothers, keep in mind that 49% of women who were born in 1987 are mothers so if you apply that little stat as a norm, half of women age 30 and over have children. So if you will not date an overweight woman or a single mother then you are swimming in a rather small pool. And average height for a woman in the U.S. is 5'5 so if you are a short man (5'6 or shorter), and you consider that you are only able to date women shorter (yes, I know there's some outliers), you are looking in an even smaller pool. Keep that in mind when considering your dating options.

"where's the freakin' magic wand that allows a dude to realize what a woman honestly wants? oh, we're supposed to do all that work"

>>>yep, that's the deal. the magic wand is the one in our pants, that drives us out there to try and try again. As much as I hate "power of positive thinking" BS, i'm back to reading a book on it from a plastic surgeon who found patients who wanted to look more beautiful in order to have success in business and life had in fact an attitude problem about themselves. The more you ask women out and pay attention to them when they talk (I've done it since at least 1st grade) the more you get that magical knowledge of what women want (my problem is never been that I didn't know what women wanted, its that I do and I don't have it or don't want to be it :) ).

without that knowledge of how to read women, you're left with "Try and try again". Its like playing lottery tickets--you just keep trying until luck smiles on you. That's really frustrating to hear, right? Yet people blow money on gambling, why? b/c they enjoy the gambling experience. If you can enjoy the dating experience, then its more fun to meet new people, get to know them, take them to an affordable event. Getting a relationship out of it is the icing on the cake, just like winning big at gambling is the icing on the cake.

I had to go to my bank a day ago to get some money to purchase a used car, and there's a married teller who looks a bit like Cynderella's photo with curly hair. While she was distractedly getting my $$ together, she made the sales pitch, "has anyone talked to you about your relationship status...." and didn't finish the sentence. B/c I know her, I put on a greasy smile and purred, "Well, I am single, thanks for asking..." and got a laugh and a blush from her (She was asking my relationship status with my accounts there). It was fun to tease her, and she's married with kids so it won't go anywhere, but I know her sense of humor enough to tease. so, that's a fun way to connect with another human being (She can be a nut-buster at times, and so I got her good). That would be the same as gambling with $10 you found in your pocket...you don't expect to win, but it will be fun to try.

I totally get, however, the sentiment "I don't want to work so hard to just fail". I'm a bit results-focused when it comes to flirting and dating. I don't want to go out to some event with a new potential partner who may just suck and ruin things, i'd rather go myself and know i'll have fun. When I was younger, tho, I chased a lot more. I already had everything but a date. Now i'm older and I like the solitude (Disclaimer: I never wanted kids. What a relief not to have that monkey on my back. I feel for those who are looking for someone for the job of co-parenting). I only flirt now when i'm in the mood to have some playful banter. If I did find a local cutie who returned it on me, I probably would be in" oh, geez, what do I do now, my mojo is rusty" situation--lucky no local cuties are interested in calling my bluff :)

the sentence "success breeds success" is truer in the world of dating than anyplace else. The more you have of what people want...the better your success rate. and if not, you truly are wasting your potential.

And there's a lot of short guys who do find dates online and relationships and I think some short guys use it as an excuse, to justify why they can't find someone.

I have very little patience for the bellyachers who do more ranting than trying to find solutions, but these guys aren't lying or exaggerating about the height issue online. Height requirements mentioned in women's profiles are as common as the "looking for a partner in crime" headline.

I see women with shorter men offline all the time, but there are women whose mentality completely changes when she thinks she has a Create-a-Mate app in the palm of her hands