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I agree, the biggest difference I ever noticed with synthetic was with my Triumph Spitfire back in the 70's & 80's. When it was 10 below zero, with Mobil 1 it cranked much easier and started without knocking for the first minute or so. Credit the ability of synthetic oil to flow easier when cold. Made the difference between go and no go. Now I used it in my 1.8 5v Jetta for the sake of the turbo, but feel it's overkill with the bikes and van since the oil gets changed regularly and they're not heavily stressed.

Some feel that synthetic oil in older machines results in oil leaks at seals.

And some of us experienced it personally. I didn't have the problem once. I had the experience on two different bikes. No problem with my newer bikes. I think it more age than miles because the newer bikes had higher miles than the older bikes. Seals harden due to age and/or heat.

'You can say what you want about the South, but I almost never hear of anyone wanting to retire to the North.

Also, what do you guys have against Wal Mart? I do not like them because of the way they treat their employees.

There's that, they encourage employees to seek government assistance because their benefits are so bad. Then there's the fact mom and pop stores can't compete because they have don't the leverage to blackmail suppliers, and the suppliers have to source from China to get their prices low enough. And then there's the type of people WM attracts http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/photos/page/32/

There's that, they encourage employees to seek government assistance because their benefits are so bad. Then there's the fact mom and pop stores can't compete because they have don't the leverage to blackmail suppliers, and the suppliers have to source from China to get their prices low enough. And then there's the type of people WM attracts http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/photos/page/32/

I live in a small town in the mountains and I see Wal-Mart very differently.

1. You complain that the employees have poor benefits. Around here, the employees would have no benefits because they would have no jobs without Wal-Mart and would be totally on the government dole.

2. Without Wal-Mart, good old Mom and Pop would have all of the business and the price would be 20-25% higher for everyone and most can't afford the extra expense.

3. Without Chinese goods, the prices would be even higher and the selection would be far less.

4. I'm a Wal-Mart shopper and I wonder about the type of people who shop in your uppity and expensive stores.

'You can say what you want about the South, but I almost never hear of anyone wanting to retire to the North.

Wow, that is a picture I wish I had not seen. Now I want to gouge my eyes out.

I do not like shopping at WM and avoid them if I can. They treat their people like crap
and yet many workers think they are a good company to work for.

My biggest beef about WM is when they tell their workers to seek out the government for help. I have questioned a few people I know that work there and they all claim the company does not tell them to turn to Uncle Sam for help stating that WM offers a health plan. My next question is always the same, "Do you have the health coverage they offer?" "Nope, can't afford it" has always been the answer.

Wait...I take that back, my ex sister-in-law has their coverage but can not afford to live on her own because of it. Yet, she thinks that they are a great company to work for. Go figure.

Valid points, osbornk, but I feel that on the whole companies such as WM are detrimental to our society. And when I go to my uppity stores I change out of my pajamas, which is more than I can say for the patrons of our local WalMart

My wife loves Wal-Mart. I try to avoid the place. When we were dating, she wanted a new TV and was going to buy it there. I suggested that we shop just a little more. We ended up with a TV set for almost 100 dollars less. Same brand name, bigger screen, better resolution, less money. Wal-Mart is not always the cheapest.

Poor quality and bad service are remembered much longer than a great price. Service and quality are what I am looking for when I spend my money. Wal-Mart does not cut it. Training in customer service is lacking and their staff is spread too thin. I have found better prices and better quality at local stores. Better service too. I do not even consider hardware from anything but one local store.

I guess Wal-Mart can be a blessing in some areas of the country. In my community, it has given us poorer quality products and less stores to choose from. What about all the people that are out of a job and on the dole because of places like Wal-Mart and Home Depot?

I'm not so certain the formulations are exactly the same (Golden-Spectro vs BMW's package/blended oil..)

At a national rally a decade or so ago, the Golden-Spectro guy was there, and was taking questions on oil. His claim at that time (things may have changed) was that BMW specified a different additive package in the oil they packaged for BMW.

There was a great article in the MOA-ON around the same time, done by a friend (Jeff DeCarlo), who had virgin samples of all sorts of oils tested to see how the viscosity (new) was, and what the additive packages were. Those tests showed a different additive package (proportions of the additives mostly) being used on the BMW oil then the Golden-Spectro oil.

Just a FWIW -

I worked in a BMW shop. I won't say which one, but I can tell you that the bulk oil we used was Golden Spectro.

Now, if you have the time the Amsoil website has some pretty interesting oil test results posted. You might be surprised who's oils are better than whos.

I always heard that if you don't us genuine BMW oil, your engine will explode within 1000 miles after you change it.

Pfffft. I put a genuine BMW accessory outlet on the V-Rod,use Harley Davidson label Dot 4 brake fluid on the BMW and wear Harley FXRG riding gear on the BMW, with BMW gloves in direct contact with a Harley Davidson jacket and a worm hole hasn't wisked me off to a parallel universe for punishment, at least not yet.

Leaks are caused by the condition of the seals. Slippery synthetics are less forgiving of hardened seals, but the oil doesn't CAUSE the leak, bad hardened seals do.

Higher mileage is actually better for seals than just sitting for years.

Choosing oil based on leakage vs performance is not the choice I would make, but each person has their own priorities.

I'm sure some of those stories about synthetic oils date to their inception when there were still plenty of leather seals in old cars on Americas roads. How many here are old enough to remember rawhide main seals in cars? Did you know the CR in CR Seals stands for Chicago Rawhide? That was the fate of the hides of many a cow slaughtered in Chicago.