Welcome to the Intro to the 25th thread of the continuing
discussion of “Liz’s Importance to the Alien Mythology.”

Background

We have been dissecting all the Roswell episodes, one by
one, season after season (a little optimism there ), finding
“clues” to Liz’s Importance to the Alien Mythology and other
relevant topics – and there are a lot of them! – and then
developing theories and potential storylines based on these
(often well hidden) clues! Shapeshifter and Qfanny have
graciously agreed to set up a single link to the former
threads that are available to read (if you have a week or
two). You can find it at the following link
http://www.ulink.net/plum/Roswell/LizMythology (but be
patient, they will have thread #24 up in good time ) .

The following is a LONG summary (oxymoron?) of some of the
clues, thoughts and theories that have been expressed on the
previous threads. I have been trying to incorporate new
theories as we move through Season 2 and new clues are
unveiled; however, not all clues identified are listed or
theories are covered in-depth (remember, I – Zero – am a mere
human being with limited human brain capacity, so can only
retain so many details).

Basic Thesis

Just a reminder - Our basic thesis is that LIZ IS AN
IMPORTANT AND ESSENTIAL ELEMENT TO THE ALIEN MYTHOLOGY.

What is Subject for Discussion?

Liz’s importance to the pod squad – and the survival of the
human race for that matter - and theories concerning the
beings – especially Max - and mysteries swirling around Liz –
are what we dissect. So – feel free to join on in, or just
lurk! And don’t worry about going off on a tangent – they all
tend to lead back to Liz’s importance! We are a friendly –
though seriously anal retentive – group! So – dive in, and
join the fun!!

Liz is Important – The Liz/Max Connection

First – and foremost – the general consensus is that Liz is
important to the alien mythology and the pod squad, and that
there is more to the Liz/Max connection than a mere attraction
(i.e., a crush). From that first look – Max getting off the
bus in Kindergarten (or 1st grade – time seems to be operating
in many dimensions – or is it time zones? - recently ) - Max
has been strongly attracted to Liz and felt a special
connection to her. Max often makes comments such as “It was
You!” and “I’m coming for You!” that leads us to believe that
her importance to him was beyond the bounds of “normal.” How
Liz is important is where the fun – and this thread! - comes
in. We now know that if things had continued on the “previous”
course, Liz and Max would end up married, but that all H#**
would break loose, resulting in Earth being taken over by
their enemies (Skins? – we don’t know since FM never says, but
now that we know there are 5 planets involved (MITC), their
“enemies” could come in numerous shapes and sizes from a
number of places) in 2014 – all apparently due to the
cementing of the L&M connection (and Tess’ leaving the
group as a result of that connection) – a connection that Liz
has broken by her deception at Future Max’s urging in TEOTW.
But, has she truly broken that “connection” irreparably or
just temporarily? It appears that Max can’t let go of the
connection. After events in NY, Max seems willing to give
their Friendship another try, and in “A Roswell Christmas
Carol,” his turning to Liz for help in his time of need, only
confirms that even more. As Max says in the end – once Liz has
helped him overcome his trial of conscience – he “believes in
her!” There is MORE to the Liz/Max connection than just a
romantic relationship, as we have always assumed. She is his
trusted advisory, his sound of reason, she is the yin to his
yang, and she helps him helps him connect to his human side,
finding that there is strength in his humanity. BUT - Lets go
back to the beginning, since few questions re: that connection
have been answered this Season – though we did get some vital
information in MITC!

Consequence of the Connection – the Change?

Most believe that when Max healed Liz and then caused a
"reverse connection" (Pilot), that something changed in Liz.
We now know from the events in MITC that LIZ WAS CHANGED, and
is developing powers, but how come?! How has that change come
about? Whether the change in Liz was new or an awakening of
something already a part of her is not known. Apparently
Future Max knew Liz had the potential to “change” since he
made the comment that she wasn’t letting it happen, but did he
know the true potential of that change and what initiated it
or prevented it from occurring? Is Liz’s “change” only a
result of Max “bringing her back,” what Ava’s reaction to
hearing this news seems to imply – or is there something more
involved! Many feel there is something that goes to the core
of who Liz is:· Maybe from a past life on the pod squad’s
planet (we call Twilo)? (Is she the true love of Max’s
previous life? Could she be the “true bride” – only sent on a
different ship to prevent easy discovery, with Tess serving as
an unknowing dupe. But if so, and she is part alien, why did
she disappear in Wipeout? She did cause the Skin’s shed skin
to disintegrate, but that could have other reasons for
occurring. Maybe she is purely human, but contains the “true
bride’s” essence – but in a different configuration than the
Hybrid pod squad?)· Could Liz or her essence have had a
previous life encounter with Max’s alien “essence” or human
DNA donor here on Earth? Maybe Max’s alien predecessor
conducted reconnaissance through possessing a human, and
somehow “met” and romanced a predecessor to Liz – but was
called back to Twilo, leaving his true love behind.· Was
Liz the original “4th” podster (and Max’s true mate) who
“hatched” early, failed to have her alien essence develop
completely, and was humanized by her human parents? (Though
this seems unlikely now that we know that Tess has a dupe in
Ava. Why did they show that leaking pod in Sof47, and is it
relevant to Liz? Could Tess/Ava be a ruse – as mentioned above
- to protect the true queen, Liz, from being discovered before
she has time to develop her powers that would protect her and
her loved ones?)· Was Liz the "second in command" referred
to in the Mom'ogram, who somehow (deliberately?) was separated
from the group and sent separately to Earth? (Again this seems
highly unlikely after MTD & MITC.) However, Liz is Max’s
most trusted advisor, and the one most likely to keep him
staying the course!· Could Liz be the Trojan Horse –
containing something within her of importance to the podsters
or their enemies, such as the key to operating the Granolith –
or contain the essence of a Leader, such as part of Max’s
alien essence, that draws him to her? · Could she be the
5th Element prophesized about back on Twilo? And the reason
Earth was chosen as the hiding place for the Granolith and the
Royal 4 x 2? Could this explain Ava’s reaction to hearing
Liz’s story? Ava had heard this story foretold during her
previous life on Twilo?· Could it just be Liz's extremely
advanced human intelligence (she is a self-admitted “nerd”)
that "connects" her to Max. (Let’s hear it for Smart Girls! )

These are just a few of the MANY theories offered. The
connection that Max had to Liz started the day he first got
off the bus in kindergarten (or 1st grade) and saw her, and
was awakened in Liz by the healing and reverse connection that
occurred in the Pilot. (And would that connection have also
existed with Zan if he had ever seen Liz? Zan apparently had
been waiting and searching for someone special all his human
life – and he never connected with Ava the way one would have
expected if she was his mate even though they had (we assume)
spent their entire life on Earth – in the NYC sewers -
together. I guess we will never know unless Zan could somehow
be brought back to life with the healing stones (all 5 of them
w/ Liz present) – anything is possible? We don’t know what
happened to his body!) Liz seems to have been drawn to Max
prior to the healing, too, but figured he was not interested
in her. (“Maria, this Face? Max Evans? No Way?”
[paraphrasing]) Liz looks directly at Max as he gets off the
bus, with a sort of recognition. They obviously knew each
other since 3rd grade, and were friends and lab partners more
recently. Some have wondered if the way Max held the back of
Liz’s neck during the healing could have changed her cerebral
cortex – the location that Pierce said the Special Unit had
identified as the source of the aliens’ powers – powers that
we know are all human (according to Harding in WR). Could the
number of connections also come into play into “changing” Liz,
or awaking already – yet dormant – powers existing within her?
Ava’s reaction to Liz’s story seems to imply that the healing
alone was enough for the change – but … what about Kyle, and
all the kids in the hospital? There seems to be more to
initiating the “change” than just the healing! Though Kyle may
develop his own powers someday, and so could the kids?

Origin of the Connection – Where is Liz from, really?

Many have wondered about Liz’s origins! A few of the common
questions raised include: · Are her parents her “true”
birth parents or is Liz adopted like the Evans kids?· Did
Grandma Claudia have a relationship with an alien that passed
something on to Liz?· Does Liz have a connection to the
Indians or an (ancient) alien race? · Why does Liz look so
much like Sheila Hubble? · How does all this play into the
connection with Max and Liz’s new found “abilities/powers”?
(The first known appearing to be astral projection.)· Is
Liz totally of human origin or does she have some alien
“blood” - literally or figuratively – in her that allowed for
the change to occur?

We know that Liz’s cheek cells differed from Max’s in the
Pilot, BUT we did not see what another “human’s” cheek cells
looked like, so it is possible that Liz’s cells are different,
too. (Though a doctor probably would have picked up on this by
now; however, what if there are many variations of cellular
structures in the alien worlds, and Liz matches one of these?)
Could Liz be descended from an alien race that colonized Earth
thousands of years ago? (This is my personal favorite theory!!
) There seems to be many clues that point to this possibility
– but nothing definite. We now know there are at least 5
planets involved in the Twilo conflict, each with (presumably)
at least one race of inhabitants – any one of which could have
come to Earth to colonize years ago. These races could be of
common decent, or there could be many variations. We know from
White Room that the alien that was studied had a cerebral
cortex similar to ours (humans), that did not have a bone
structure like ours – thus, the shock that Max did. Could the
similarities that the alien had be due to a common ancestor to
humans – one that traveled to Earth many years ago either
colonizing Earth or intermingling with the humans here. We
don’t know for sure that the alien that was studied was a
shapeshifter – we just assume it was, but it could have been
another alien, different from the shapeshifters, that was on
board the ship (or another ship that crashed.) We also know
that the Skins (who are NOT Skins on Twilo – only on Earth –
so how did Nasedo know what they called themselves?) share
powers common to the pod squad whose powers are all human.
Does this mean that the beings that are Skins are from the
same race of beings that the essences of the podsters are
from? Will humans be able to eventually acquire some of these
powers?

Rath sarcastically comments about how hard it is to travel
through space to Earth – thus the need to possess humans
long-distance – but the podsters obviously got here somehow
(and fairly quickly if the comments concerning the warring for
50 years is correct - I will explain this if you don’t get
what I mean – just ask) – so travel to and from Earth must be
possible and not unreasonable. Could that ancient race somehow
be connected to the podsters’ Twilo predecessors from long
ago? Could Liz and Max have a common ancestor – from long,
long ago?

Granolith – How does it fit in?

We know that the Granolith CAN be used as a time travel
machine, but this is NOT its intended purpose. What is its
intended purpose? Whitaker and Courtney seemed to think it was
a means to their salvation – but why? It is obviously of great
importance! Could the Granolith be like a Holy Grail of the V
constellation? The Holy Grail was meant to be found by a man
with a pure heart who will use it to feed the hungry and heal
the sick, and with it will bring peace and happiness to the
land. So – whose heart is the purest in Roswell? Could it be
Liz? The Granolith could be like Excalibur from the King
Arthur tales, to be used as an instrument of the righteous, by
a good man for a good cause. So – who fits that description?
Max? Did you see the reaction of the other “leaders” when
informed that Khivar was not in possession of the Granolith,
and that it was on Earth under Max’s guard? If it is only a
transport system, I doubt they would have had such a concerned
reaction – so there must be more to the Granolith than that.
Could the Parkers (who have resided in Roswell for 4
generations) be the prophesized protectors of the Granolith,
or could the Indians in the area be such protectors? Liz has
yet to see the Granolith. Maybe it will react when she enters
it. Maybe Liz holds something within her that is the key to
the operation of the Granolith! Was the Granolith used by
others than FM to travel in time? Apparently Liz and future
friend Serena were the ones to make it work as a time machine
– so did others have a chance to use it this way before their
discovery? So, many questions – still! … ! The speculation
continues!

Destiny – Liz and Max!

Though much is made of Max’s Destiny being Tess , many of
us wonder if Liz is actually his Destiny due to the use of the
Human DNA and where it came from, or some past alien
connection or other prophecy. The use of that human DNA could
have totally altered the previously “planned” destiny. There
is also much thought given to whether the alien Max played out
his original “destiny” on Twilo when killed in the conflict
that envelopes that place, and that now has an entire new
“destiny” that includes Liz – one that could not have been
anticipated by his home planet creators OR well planned out
knowing that a “human” alliance would be necessary to save
both the podsters’ people and the human race. Many posters
have wondered “Why?” send the Hybrid pod squad (in duplicate
form) to Earth if there wasn’t some benefit. Could the Max/Liz
alliance be foretold in an ancient Indian or alien prophecy?
(One of my personal favorite theories! Is she the necessary
“5th Element – see below.) This would explain Ava’s reaction.
Maybe she had “heard” the prophecy? (I am ignoring the cut
scenes that Rooney posted that explained that the Dupe’s
shapeshifter had warned that anyone they brought back would be
changed, not necessarily for the better, because if it is not
aired, it might not be the way the writers/producers have
decided to take the show.) Zan’s “searching for someone” that
Ava spoke briefly about, also seems to imply that he felt
someone special was out there that he was meant to connect
with – maybe Liz or Serena – I guess we will never know unless
he is “brought back” somehow.

Most of us draw a clear distinction between someone’s
“destiny” and “duty.” We – mostly – also believe that by using
human DNA for the pod squad, and the fact that they were
raised as humans, brings the issue of “free choice” into play.
The continuing debate of “nature” vs. “nurture” also comes up
here – and is the pod squad’s “nature” completely “alien”
given that all their powers are (supposedly) “human” according
to Harding. (I’m not going to get into it in this Intro – but
the fact that the Skin’s powers are similar to the pod squads’
powers – which are advanced human powers – which are supposed
to be similar to the powers they had on Twilo seems to imply
that humans must be capable of the these powers someday and
have a common ancestor with the Skins and pod squanders in the
distant past – Ummm …! ) Watching the difference between the
two pod groups truly brings the Nurture element to the
forefront. There has also been an excellent analysis of what
“essence” truly means, and can a being’s destiny or soul
follow the transfer of one’s essence. Could the essence of one
being have been split between two beings – Max and Liz (and
Zan)? Also, does one’s memory follow one’s essence? Tess seems
to think it does, but … why is she the only one with these
memory retrieval abilities among the podsters and her memory
retrieval does not seem very complete! (None of us are too
fond or trusting of Tess , and that distrust only seems to be
increasing with time!) Though the Dupes do seem to have
memories of their past lives – at least Lonnie appears to - we
do not know how much of this was taught them by their
shapeshifter. Also, are the visions Max’s previous alien
being’s memories (like that flash of a weird head he gets
before confronting Brody), or are they coming from someone
(i.e., Tess, another shapeshifter) or somewhere (i.e.,
Granolith, Twilo) else? We now know Max has the V formation
(the royal seal) tattooed on his brain! What else is stored
deep within him, and can he get to the point he will be able
to freely access and prevent having it MRd out of him?

There have also been many wonderful discussions concerning
what "destiny" truly means, and how the environment (the
"nurture" argument) can affect one's destiny. Also, is history
“destined” to repeat itself – an important issue now with the
introduction of the Vilandra storyline and the small amount of
what we know of past podster actions. Liz has prevented the
past from repeating itself I MITC - Zan was killed through
treachery on Twilo, then New Zan was killed through treachery
again in NY, but Max (a Zan Hybrid) survived due to Liz’s new
found power and intervention! As Future Max emphasized, and
Max has commented many times: “We make our own Destiny!” Maybe
yes, maybe no?? Maybe they make their own destiny with a
little help from their Human Friends.

Follow Your Heart

Following one’s heart has been a focus in both seasons.
Grandma Claudia told Liz to promise to always follow her heart
wherever it leads her (LN), and then Liz followed her heart
and believed Max when Tess showed up on the scene (TLV). Maria
tells Max to follow his heart (AN), like all the great leaders
have. Does this mean that by following their hearts Max and
Liz will not only turn out to be great leaders, but will
eventually be led back to one another? Given the current
strain on their relationship, Max will have to follow his
heart in order to be led back to Liz. He has already begun the
journey with his decision to be her friend once again (MITC
and ARCC). He has even stated that he believes in Liz, and
though this is meant more in a friendly way than a romantic
way, it is a sign that Max is following his heart back to her!

Symbolism – Do Not Ignore Anything!

The symbolism throughout the both seasons is incredible –
whether meant to be or not! I can only touch on some of it
here, but here are some examples. Max changes his cards from a
royal pair to two diamonds so that Liz’s Dad (who is asking
Max what he is hiding!) can win the round of cards. The two
diamonds have popped up again recently on the beer Michael
holds in Sof47. Are Max and Liz the two diamonds in hiding? Is
it “in the cards” as Lonnie says? Once you notice it, the
diamond shape shows up often and everywhere (e.g., Valenti’s
front door, Michael’s wallpaper). Eagles and horses also seem
to show up often – and again, we can tie them to Liz and Max –
the most notable example being the Indian myth that states
that the eagle feather needs both sides to be “in balance.”
Max and Liz must follow their hearts to each other to find
that connection and balance! Liz could be the Trojan Horse in
which something of great importance is hidden. There is a
prominent picture of a Ship between Max and Maria when they
are discussing his love for Liz. The old Scandinavian tale of
the ghost-ship, on which Wagner based his score "The Flying
Dutchman," symbolizes the quest for fidelity in love. In
desperation the Dutchman wanders the seas, hoping to meet the
woman who will be eternally faithful. Senta, emotionally
absorbed by the same ideal, swears that she will be faithful
to the Dutchman unto death. However, in doing so, she betrays
her fiancé Birk and suffers the same damnation as the Dutchman
she was trying to save. The Dutchman puts out to sea, but his
vessel founders, while Senta leaps from the rocks and is
drowned. HOWEVER - the pair are now seen RISING from the
now-CALMED waters, TRANSFIGURED and REDEEMED by their
SACRIFICE. Salvation is no impossibly idealistic dream, but
exists in the courageous acceptance of reality. Red roses
(love) are thrown by Max to Liz, than changed to White roses
(peace) at the last minute in an episode (TEOTW) that Liz must
sacrifice her love for Max to ensure peace on Earth. Yvonne
“White” was the nurse that disappears in Summer of ’47.

Max lights a “white” pinecone in ARCC. The ancient Greeks
and Assyrians viewed the pinecone as a symbol of masculinity
because of its phallic shape, and it represented both
fertility and immortality. As the emblem of Artemis, it
represented feminine purity. It was also the emblem of the
Roman goddess Venus. In Christianity, the pinecone forms the
crown of the Tree of Life. Because of its swirling form, it is
associated with dynamic generative and cosmic power. Here we
see Venus is mentioned and also the Tree of Life (remember the
women on the reservation told Liz that was what the symbol was
on the necklace) also feminine purity seems to play an
important role for Liz at this point. (Thanks Evid!) (And this
is just the tip of the iceberg!!)

Then there is the Dragon that has been prominent on Liz’s
window this season – though it was present last season. We
were in the "year of the dragon." Here are some Dragon
“meanings”: · In the Chinese Horoscope, the Dragon is in
the FIFTH ranking order. · The Dragon's corresponding
western sign is ARIES.· The Dragon’s ruling planet is
VENUS. Although Liz herself doesn't seem to be born in
Year of the Dragon, it does seem the Dragon symbolism is most
often made with her and only her (unless dragons have been
popping up on other characters’ windows?). But since it was
the year she discovers that she had “powers,” it is reasonable
to think of her as being “reborn” in the Year of the Dragon …
as the Dragon. (Thank You Meloudious 1, Starbox and
Bluecornmoon, Charmed Kitten for your thoughts on the Dragon!)
Then there is the Arthur C. Clarke book, “Childhood’s End”
that is found in _____ (can’t remember the episode – Help?).
Following is a summary written by a reader on Amazon – a
coincidence? “It is ...in this book the "Overlords" are a
mysterious, powerful, but ultimately tragic group of beings
that have vastly potent minds, but that cannot undergo the
spiritual metamorphosis that would take them into direct
communion with the sort of Godhead that directs their (and
human) destiny. I liked Clarke's ideas about utopia, which is
more or less what the Earth becomes after a few generations
under the guidance of the Overlords. He seems to have had a
lot of fun playing with ideas about future art forms, for
example, among other things. However, this utopian society is
doomed, because of an unforeseen, quantum leap in evolution,
that turns out to be an evolution of the communal spirit.
Clarke has a lot to say here about what connects us to each
other, as human beings. Are we all linked with some higher
being at the level of spirit, in the manner that islands would
be revealed to be all linked, if one were to somehow drain the
world's oceans? Or is striving toward a planned, ordered,
social utopia, with allowances made for developing all of
every individual's gifts to the fullest possible degree, the
best way to relate to each other?...” Interesting??

There are lots of other symbols and clues to pick up on!
Coincidence?? Probably some are, but not all of them – JK and
RM are too intelligent and clever for that!

The “Bride” – will the real one please stand up!

In the Mom‘ogram, many have wondered if the reference to
Max’s young “bride” has to be to Tess (The Evil Shape Shifter
– Grace Kel )? OR could it be referring to Liz who was also
standing right there? AND Why do they always use the word
“bride”? Was the marriage never completed, or were they killed
on the day of the wedding? (Larak – one of the alien leaders
mentioned attending Max’s wedding, and never mentioned that
the slaughter occurred that day, and never acknowledged Tess
as Max’s mate!) Though many seem to accept that “bride”
probably is referring to Tess, many wonder why they would send
his bride with Max in the first place? Was Tess sent solely to
provide a “mate” for Max (please – no gagging allowed on this
thread), or was there another purpose for her presence? Why
send a mate, unless the goal was to produce offspring and
successors to the throne. (Zan and Ava, who had spent their
entire lives together, didn’t seem to be working at producing
offspring.) What if Tess was sent to deceive the enemy, and
the Real Bride was sent in a separate ship – and somehow the
Real Bride’s essence ultimately ended up in Liz.

Future Max states that the 4 podsters made a complete unit
that needed to be kept together because of their different
gifts were needed to defeat the enemy. Maybe Tess is a
warrior, led to believe she was the bride, when she really
wasn’t. (Bad Boy Harding!!) And why make it so complicated? Do
the Dupes have identical powers as their twin counterparts, or
different powers? Why did they kill off one of their “unit” if
it weakens them? Since their shapeshifter seemed to teach them
so much, wouldn’t they have known the importance of keeping
the unit together? There is also the question of whether the
Mom’ogram is authentic, or a projection from Tess? (Did the
Dupes see a similar projection previously or at the same time?
They never mention seeing a Mom’ogram.) It was hard to tell
when Tess’ projections/illusions left off and reality began.
Was the Mom’ogram pre-recorded like a video tape (in which
case – is Twilo still in existence, or has it been destroyed
by war or natural consequences? Apparently, it survives with
Khivar in power – but with much “bloodshed”), or was it a
direct communication with the home planet or a hidden
spaceship (hidden by the V formation?) housing the heads of
the allied forces?

The Books – Doesn’t anyone read these things?

Concerns similar those raised about the Mom’ogram have been
raised about the “book” found by Tess with respect to its
authenticity and reliability. Why does the book only include
the four podsters now that we know there were two sets of pods
and duplicates? Did the Dupes receive a similar book? What is
the meaning of the symbol on the front? The (.) symbol is of
significance, meaning the Black Moon and representing Lillith
(you have to read Starbox’s post about the relationship of
Adam, Eve and Lillith to understand – but it is significant!).
If this book is an instruction or operations manual for the
pod squad, why have they not deciphered it by now? Why does
Max have writing on his forehead, but no one else does?

Could Grandma Claudia’s book – which is in Liz’s possession
(we assume) - help decode the alien’s book and shed light on
the aliens’ connection to the Indians, an ancient alien race
or others in the area? If the alien book is authentic, how did
the aliens know exactly what the pod squad would look like
when they grew up? Were they “engineered” to that degree of
precision (with tattoos on their brains), and if so, why use
human form? Why was the Earth chosen?? (Lots of discussion re:
DNA, cloning, etc. - very interesting! ) Is there is any
information in Whitaker’s files about translating the book, or
resolving some of the mysteries surrounding the podsters?? WHY
DID IT Take the announced death of Whitaker to get them to
finally go through her files!!!! AND WHY DIDN’T THEY ASK
COURTNEY AND AVA MORE QUESTIONS!!! (Sorry …a bit of a rant!)
READ THE BOOKS! READ THE FILES! ASK MORE QUESTIONS!

The Catalyst – Liz!

Liz is also viewed – when the episodes are re-watched
(multiple times by some of us! And in slow motion with a
jog-shuttle! We fondly call this “Grace Kelled” ) – as a
critical element to moving the plot along. She is the one who
often initiates the actions that help unravel the aliens’
mythology or saves the day (e.g., thinking of the plan to
throw Valenti off the trail in the Pilot, finding the way out
of the hidden room at Atherton’s place, making the initial
contact with River Dog, going to Valenti to seek help in
rescuing Max, identifying where the skeleton would be taken,
potentially sacrificing her future with Max to prevent Tess
from leaving and the future take-over of the Earth, figuring
out how the humans had disappeared and how to bring them back,
connecting with Max to save his life in NY and coming up with
the idea that helps Max restore his balance in ARCC.). Liz is
a leader that takes action when it is needed, and is the
intellect that comes up with the plan. (Future Liz was the one
that sent FM back in time, and Liz was the one to come up with
the plan to make Max “fall out of love with her.”)

Vision Quest – How does Liz fit in?

Liz could possibly be the equivalent to Max – whom we now
know is the once and future leader of his people – though
apparently of questionable abilities and judgment. (Who knows
who and what to believe on this one??) Could Liz be the human
equivalent of Max that is here to help Max save the human
race, as well as free the pod squad’s people? Again – Does
Liz’s connection “complete” or complement Max, and bring him
into “balance”? Max seems to believe that Liz is his voice of
reason, and knows him better than anyone else – even Iz! (We
learn this from the JK and JB commentary on ARCC.) Could Liz
possess part of Max’s alien essence? Is Liz the 5th Element,
necessary to bring power and balance to the Royal 4? Liz is
also a brain – which is relevant when we find out in the White
Room that the podsters are just very advanced humans
(approximately 3000 years ahead of us normal mortals!). Could
her intelligence (combined with her connection with Max) mean
that she has the potential to obtain more of the “powers” that
the pod squad have? Many had expressed that they would NOT be
surprised if Liz would be capable of some advanced powers in
the future, and that her visions may be just a precursor to
these. NOW WE KNOW LIZ HAS POWERS (astral projection, at
least) – just not the extent of those powers, whether they are
still developing, and how the visions play into the powers!
Will she be the one able to see the evil within as the
Mom’ogram says the podsters will have to be able to do? Is
that what she was "seeing" when she kissed Harding/Evil Max?
Does she only get visions while kissing or in a state of
heightened emotion (i.e., the hand touching in SH in Chemistry
class; arm touch in Ask Not – did you notice the first vision
was of traveling through space)? The aliens supposedly get
such visions sometimes according to Max in Missing – remember
the vision he got of Kyle in Liz’s bedroom and the visions Iz
gets in Surprise (though those may have been “projected”
visions from Tess to get Iz’s attention for help). And why did
Max have visions that belonged to Liz when he was being MRd by
Nicholas? Is their connection that strong? Max seemed to get
visions from those closest to him – Iz, Mikey G and Liz –
while being MRd, but none from Tess – his supposed mate. Why?
AND when is he going to get a vision of FM and what Liz has
sacrificed?

All of Liz’s visions have been examined in-depth, and it is
hard to summarize (is that what I’m doing?? Opps!) all the
thoughts here. We also now know that Kyle did not get visions
from Max during Kyle’s healing – which is not huge, but goes
to the question - WHY is LIZ the ONLY human to have VISIONS?
Is this one of her new “powers”? Not only has she been able to
“see into Max’s soul,” but also she has seen travels through
space and a distant galaxy, the crash on Earth, and her
visions were the reason the second communicator was
discovered. Many feel these visions were not coming from Max,
but from an outside source – or a source INTERNAL to Liz just
“now” being released or awakened. Some of the visions seemed
to be from the perspective of the communicator itself or an
alien hiding it (a deep breathing – out-of-breath alien). Some
wonder if others - aliens? - have observed Liz for some time.
The shot came from two “strangers” who mention – “We have to
get rid of her” – in the background (listen carefully while
Liz shows the alien picture to the tourist couple) right
before she is shot. Was her shooting intentional – and if so,
WHY (and by whom – shapeshifters, time travelers, other
aliens)?? Why would anyone (or any being) "watch" Liz prior to
the shooting unless she has an importance we are not aware of
yet (though we suspect, and TEOTW & MITC seem to confirm
somewhat)? And who’s eyes are we seeing through watching Liz
and Maria at the beginning of Wipe Out? The same eyes that
watched Max at school and Harding by his car in the alley? The
vision seems similar to that Liz gets in SH when she “sees”
the orb being buried. Could this be Tic Tac - another alien
that we believe has been watching them – Liz included? (I do
not believe that Harding, Nasedo and Tic Tac were all one and
the same shapeshifter!) Could his blurred vision be the result
of testing he was subjected to, and the tic tacs pills that he
takes to maintain his “balance”?

Time Travel – “Run, Lola, Run”

Now that we know that time-travel is possible, has it come
into play already in a way we are not aware of – yet? Could
this we the THIRD time around, similar to “Run, Lola, Run” –
which was mentioned in Surprise as the story of Liz’s life?
(First scenario being Liz doesn’t get shot and rescued by Max,
thus they never connect and she never develops her powers, the
second being Liz gets shot and marries Max at age 19 but fails
to develop her powers fully due to the premature cementing,
and the third being the path we are on now!) Watch the movie,
and see what you think! Do Liz and Max have more than one
chance to get things “right” – and ultimately, to be together
in peace and harmony? Also, catch the four square symbol on
the door with the swirl through it – the same as in the Season
2 promos? OH – and what will Liz do with the knowledge she now
has from FM concerning the Granolith – she did warn Max before
he so rudely left for NY, and that warning prevented him from
turning it over to the other aliens - and the potential for
Tess to leave or turn evil (by not helping the podsters)?
Won’t someone (Max in particular!) wonder how she knows these
things? Her knowledge concerning the Granolith has already
begun to bug Max – it has to eat at him now that he knows she
has been changed! Does he really “know” as Kyle seems to think
Max always does?

Hero Journey – Liz’s Path

I want to add something about Liz’s hero journey here, but
I’m still working on it. So it will have to wait – but trust
me – Liz’s appears to be taking that journey!

Grandma Claudia – the first connection?

The picture Liz shows the tourists in the Pilot was
supposedly taken by her Grandmother at the crash before the
military arrived – a connection or just a joke as we were
supposed to think? Could GC be Yvonne White (as in “peace”)
who disappeared in Sof47, only to resurface with her new and
married name – Claudia Parker? Many have speculated about
Grandma Claudia’s involvement and her book about the Ancient
Treasures of the Navajo Indians. Could Grandma Claudia have
had contact with the aliens previously? Perhaps GC helped them
when she was younger, and they entrusted valuable information
with her just as with River Dog. Was Grandma Claudia killed
intentionally? Did she know that Liz was “special,” thus,
necessitating the early arrival and that “soulmate”
discussion? Is Liz affected or a product of one of these
earlier alien contacts? Could Liz have an alien relative –
recent or distant? There seems to be many hints connecting
ancient Indian cultures to the podsquad or other aliens,
including the Machu Picchu in Peru culture highlighted at the
UFO Museum, the continuing references to “ancient languages”
(e.g., Liz’s Blind Date Doug Shellow’s major at the UofNM and
where the aliens’ manual was hidden in the library), the
traditional Indian music in the background throughout MITC,
and Grandma Claudia’s studies. Only coincidence? We think not!
Could Liz’s review of her Grandmother’s possessions in Season
2 reveal those connections? We are hopeful! (COME ON WRITERS –
WHERE ARE THE INDIAN CONNECTIONS FROM SEASON 1? WHY ISN”T
ANYONE READING GC’s BOOK? WHERE IS THE DETECTIVE IN THE SCOOBY
GANG!!)

Lifebonds vs. Soulmates

Norma Bates & Tasyfa contributed these thoughts!
Soulmates are usually described as people being very alike in
feelings and motivation. They work very well together for
common goals. They have a connection of purpose and a
similarity in thinking. Their skills complement each others so
that together they accomplish more and are stronger/better
than if they worked individually toward the same goal. But
soulmates aren’t necessarily a permanent connection and they
could be with several people. However, Lifebonds take
"soulmate" one step further. Lifebonds are usually found in
telepathic sci-fi (Kathy Tyers' "Firebird" for example) and
fantasy genres. Before they can be lifebonded, they must be
soulmates first. They are linked together mentally,
emotionally and constantly. Lifebonds in fiction are rare and
not taken lightly. They are a permanent one on one
connection…till death do they part. The creation of a lifebond
is a matter of choice. It doesn’t just happen. Authors
sometimes use the theory that if a pair decides to lifebond,
they spend some time apart first, to strengthen and stretch
the bond (to change the bond) and to contemplate on their
choice. Both must agree and be fully committed to each other.
There is no divorce option except death. Once that is done,
the 2 open their connections to each other, mind and soul, to
the fullest extent and then “cement” their relationship,
making the bond permanent.

The drawbacks to life bonding includes: · If they are
separated from each other, they feel incomplete, not
whole.· Long term separation can lead to mental
instability or insanity because one balances the other’s
strengths and weaknesses emotionally and physically. · If
one of a bonded pair dies, it can cause a deep depression to
the point of suicide. The remaining survivor has trouble
adapting and balancing themselves.

Some things that lifebonds aren’t:· They are not mind
reading skills. They send strong impressions or emotions.
Right now, if Max and Liz were lifebonded, he would know she
was lying but not why unless she told him.· They are still
separate people capable of misunderstandings. · Lifebonds
cause a lot of stress and misunderstanding because they are so
close emotionally, they forget to communicate verbally. ·
Having secrets between a lifebonded pair causes a lot of
frustration and pain between them.

Could what FM is talking about in TEOTW be a hint that, not
knowing what they were doing, Liz and Max became life bonded
too soon? Liz wasn’t going to change or be able to lifebond to
Max without first making a decision that she wanted to go
ahead with the relationship. From Destiny until TEOTW she kept
herself apart and tried to withdraw, but after seeing Madame
Vivian she changed her mind and decided to take a chance…to
start changing. Perhaps FM found out that Liz would develop
her own powers if they hadn't become lifebonded and solidified
the links so early. FM coming back and keeping her separated
allowed the connections to grow stronger. Liz needed time to
stretch the links, to change both physically and mentally, and
taking Isabel's hand in MITC was only the first step of
finding out whom she really is and what she can do.

Sheila Hubble – Eerie resemblance to Liz! – What’s the
connection?

Another major topic of interest is Liz’s connection to
Sheila Hubble! The resemblance between the two is amazing, and
other parallels exist (e.g., pictures of both driving in an
open-air car with the wind blowing through their dark hair).
Plus, the visions that Liz receives from Max/Harding include
Hubble’s wife at the death scene – meaning it had some
significance to him. Did he kill her, or did the handprint
come from a failed attempt to save her? Were the fireworks
Hubble mentions seeing when kissing his wife the same as the
stars Liz sees when kissing Max? Could Sheila Hubble be
related to Liz somehow – an aunt, DNA donor, or was Sheila an
alien? The fact that Sheila Hubble was three months pregnant
with a girl seems to be relevant somehow – why else would they
mention it?! Could the DNA from the girl or a twin have been
used for the pod squad – Max maybe, or Tess – or for Liz? AND
why is Tess' mother's name listed as Sheila on her school
records? Everett Hubble, Ed Harding - both EH names with a
wife named Sheila - INTERESTING! Ummmm!

Speaking of connections – Is Hal Carver somehow connected
to Liz? He lives in Florida – the state Liz spent the entire
summer. Who was Liz staying with while in Florida?? He was
friends with her grandfather, Pete Parker. So, there is a
connection to Liz. Did the aliens residing in Florida
influence the vote count for the President? Do you think the
writers will introduce a character from Florida named Chad?
Ummmmm?

Venus – Liz’s connection to the stars!

Liz’s ability to “see” into Evil Max/Harding’s “soul” again
points to the possibility that she may ultimately be able to
“see the evil within.” What is it that she sees in these
visions? Sheila Hubble, Lightening, a wormhole (the Granolith
at work??), the high desert, clouds rolling in? Some see sea
foam, which is related in mythology to Venus. Is Liz the Venus
often referred to? The Venus constellation is often referred
to in connection with Liz (e.g., Max in response to Liz saying
her parents are on a trip to see Venus in the morning sky says
“I thought she was standing in front of me.”). There are too
many interesting connections for Venus not to mean anything,
and we now know the V constellation is the Royal Crest with
the home planet being the Venus Star at the bottom. Some
example of what has been turned up. (THANKS Starbox?!) Both
the Mayans and Aztecs used Venus and the Venusian cycle to
establish their calendars. Venusian years are grouped in
cycles of 5. (Were podster people here to assist those
cultures/civilizations with these developments?) Venus is
associated with the Sun - she is his twin. (Is there a Max/Sun
connection too?) Venus is seen as an intermediary between the
Sun and mankind. Venus has a dual nature - by night she is the
goddess of love and pleasure and by day she is the goddess of
battle. In astrology - the sense of touch is one of Venus's
attributes (explains Liz's ability to receive flashes with
just a touch - also the importance of hand holding again).
Venus is the guardian spirit of horses. Venus is associated
with "sensual feelings, instinctive attraction, intoxication
(maybe that’s why that kiss sobered Max up – restored the
balance), SMILES, seduction, charm, beauty and grace." Plus,
Venus and Serena make an awesome doubles combination – tennis
anyone! Also, there is one part of Venus – the planet - that
is named after a male...the highest point on Venus, standing
at 11 km, and the largest mountain range, the Maxwell Montes!
(Thanks Nemo, WR, Starstruck, et al.)

Numbers – It all adds up to Liz and Max!

Could it be that the 4 squares (pod squad) + plus the fifth
star being Liz “complete” the constellation? There were 5
healing stones – Why? The numbers 1, 4 and 5 seem to pop up
often – why? We now know that there are 5 planets involved,
but … Even the communication was done on 5/14 – those numbers
again! TEOTW occurs in 2014! Some have found a connection
between these numbers to Venus in astronomy and mythology, or
could it be 1 for Liz, and 4 for the pod squad? Could Liz be
the 5th Element foretold in prophecy (thus, Zan’s search and
Ava’s reaction), and that is necessary to the success of the
podsters? Or are these numbers just some writer’s favorite
apartment number or address? It has been noted that 4
represents “Potential,” while 5 represents “Balance” and
“Marriage between Heaven and Earth.” Ummmmm! We also have the
evil aliens’ beeper that is a pentagon – 5 sided. The same
shape as Atherton’s ceiling. Any connection? The number 2 has
also been cropping up a lot lately – 2 as in Max and Liz or as
in duplicates? Next time you watch ARCC, notice the house
addresses for Brody and the Ghost’s family, and it’s the 23rd
Annual celebration. They all add up to 5!

Cave Map Symbols – All signs lead to Liz?

And what significance does the cave map have to Liz's
connection to the podsters? A number of the symbols in the
cave “map” have raised some interesting analysis! What do they
represent, and is Liz represented somehow - like one of the
"dots" in the series of five boxes, one of which is open with
the dot outside? This symbol recently arose again in Max’s
visions in Wipe Out. Some have tried to identify each of the
symbols and draw a correlation between the symbols and the
various characters with some fascinating results! We also
begun to analyze the symbols that were “flashed” in the promos
for Season 2 – you definitely have to Grace Kel them or you
miss them. Redhawk has done some wonderful screen caps of
these for us to analyze! Is Liz the connection that holds the
four squares together?

Skins – What lies below the surface?

We now know that the "evil" aliens that we are aware of
(there could be others) – Skins - came from the pod squad's
planet, but are part of a civil war/revolution - therefore,
seem to have similar characteristics and powers to the
podsters – but it is not clear what all those powers are,
except that shapeshifting does not seem to be one of them.
They seemed to be confined to their husks, but they could be
from the same race as the pod squad’s alien predecessors. Many
of us think that the pod squad’s people had to have visited
Earth before - maybe many times! Could other pods have been
planted on Earth at a time separate from the 1947 crash? When
would they have had time to construct the elaborate pod
chamber with the hidden Granolith? And why put the Dupes in
the sewers of NY? Yuck – I agree with Nicko on this one – at
least with respect to the sewer aspect! :frown: How did the
“mother bear” get those pods from NM to NY without being
noticed? And, why did those podsters end up looking like
punks? What happened to their shapeshifter/guardian, and why
were Rath and Lonnie so protective of the information? How did
the Skins – Nicko - find the Dupes? And could some of these
earlier alien visits have some connection to Grandma C or
someone else in Liz’s family? Was the ’47 crash caused by the
evil aliens, or another ship of the “good” aliens? How long
have the evil and good aliens been visiting or aware of Earth?
Apparently the Skins originally arrived in 1950, but did they
visit at another time? And what have they been up to on these
visits? Brody was supposedly healed by aliens who abducted
him, and now use his body for possession/visitations. Why? And
are there another race or groups of aliens on Earth ? And, why
in the world pick Earth to hide the podsters – in human form,
with human DNA – unless, Earth, and the humanity it represents
is essential to the podsters survival? Is that why the “more
human” podsters were given possession of the Granolith? Once
again, this would tie in Liz’s importance as a human –
possibly the “chosen” human to assist in their survival – the
5th Element (I like this theory – can you tell ).

Shapeshifters – Are there more than one?

Most of us also think that there are more than one alien
“watching” the pod squad, and that the tic-tac popping alien
(AKA Tic Tac) (i.e., Hank-killer, one that found them asleep
in the desert, and Dr. M impersonator, yet to show up in
Season 2) is a different alien, possibly watching out for them
(we hope!), than Harding/Nasedo (assuming Harding is Nasedo).
And what about the person who burns their picture at the end
of Blind Date - another alien or one of the above two? Some
wonder if Tess, Doug Shellow, Pierce and/or Deputy Owen might
be a shapeshifter, or evil aliens? There is a wonderful
observation of the different ways Harding and Tic Tac
shapeshift and the different colored light involved! Many feel
that Tic Tac is a good alien watching over the podsters, but
maybe he is watching over Liz, too! Some wonder if Tic Tac
switched the orb in the desert before Liz and Max woke up? If
he did, why? The orbs have become a significant focus of
discussion – how are they connected to the alignment of the
constellations, or to the pod squad, or to the evil aliens?
Also – what was with the “visit” during Into The Woods? (Did
you notice that FM appears with a lightning strike just like
in ITW?) Was it a spaceship that left the marking, or a single
alien? As far as the color analysis goes, generally yellow
seems to represent – or be present – evil, and blue seems to
represent good – though this is not always true. And then,
there is always the green cells and occasional glow, and the
red that seems to be present throughout Surprise! And where is
Tic Tac so far in Season 2?? I can’t believe he and Harding
were one and the same. Maybe Tic Tac was the Dupes’
shapeshifter who came back to Roswell.

Harding’s connection to Liz has been pondered often!
Recently with the discovery of Liz’s change, many have
wondered why Harding didn’t know about the change and mention
it. Especially after reading the cut scenes from MITC. If Ava
knew, Harding should have known and mentioned it. Of course,
there are the long lingering questions like: Why was he so
eager to kiss Liz – not just in the car, but also in bus after
“saving” her? (Horny alien? ) Why did he save Liz and not Max
from the house of mirrors? Could he have been Sheila Hubble’s
lover or had some other strong connection to her, with a later
connection to Liz? Could he have known Grandma Claudia? Could
GC been connected to Sheila Hubble somehow? Harding did
nothing – we know of – to harm Liz, but MANY are suspicious of
his intentions, and his apparent failure to divulge
information about Liz and the podsters’ origins. Was his sole
reason for being on Earth to protect the podsquad – an
official “worker bee”? And what did he do for all those years
before Tess hatched? Some feel he was a bad alien using Tess
to infiltrate the pod squad. Again, why didn’t he give them
more information about themselves, Liz, the Dupes and what he
had been up to? Why did Harding have such a large collection
of antiques, which he was so sensitive about? Had he been
around when they were original manufactured – years ago? There
are so many questions he could have answered for the podsters
before he was wasted! And was the fact that Liz was NOT
present at the attempt to heal Harding the reason the healing
failed? Maybe Liz is somehow necessary to make the stones work
– part of the Balance? Was Harding responsible for Liz’s
“great opportunity” in Congresswoman Whitaker’s office? If
not, who was the connection there?

Odds and Ends

Some have noted the reoccurrence of handholding as
symbolizing the connection between Max and Liz and the other
podsters. Handholding has great significance in the Roswell
High books as a form of joining energy, and we believe it does
in the show too. The V constellation also looks like the
joining of two hands. Also, in The Balance much is made of Max
reaching out his hand to pull Michael from the pit, and M/I/M
walking away holding hands. We wonder what would have happened
in Harvest if Liz had stepped forward to join her power with
Max instead of Tess – who did not seem to help at all. Iz held
Liz’s hands to help her connect to Max – though it appeared to
be slowly Liz’s powers that caused the connection. And who
could miss Max grabbing Liz’s hand at mid-night mass and
telling Liz, “I believe in you!” in ARCC!

Another recent development – the disintegration of Skin
when picked up. Why did it not disintegrate when Maria picked
it up, but did when the podsters and Liz picked it up? Could
be moisture content, but it could be the energy generated by
the person holding it. Does Liz generate energy similar to the
podsters?

Dates

Finally – dates seem to be of interest to those on this
thread. So, following is a rundown of dates as I’ve been able
to gather them from episodes and factual research. I include
them up-front for easy reference, but I would love to add
dates of relevance you come across – PM me if you have one. I
have added dates from the Crashdown Timeline and the Whitaker
Diaries, but they are questionable, and have no basis in
episodes aired, so take them with a grain of salt.

1903 – James Atherton born (according to Crashdown
Timeline)1911 - James Atherton born in TN (according to
285S)1927 - Buffalo Visitation1932 – River Dog born on
Mesaliko Indian Reservation (Crashdown Timeline)1933 –
Grandma Claudia born (Crashdown Timeline)1942 – Deputy
Owen Blackwood born on Mesaliko Indian Reservation (Crashdown
Timeline)1/15/43 – Pentagon (think beeper shape)
completed6/14/1947 - Crash 6/24/1947 - 9 Disklike
objects spotted flying near Mt. Rainier in WA7/4/1947 –
Milton claims the crash occurred 7/7/1947 - Farmer Brazel
(from Foster Ranch) finally reports debris from Roswell crash
to sheriff, who calls Roswell Army Air Field11/14/1947 -
Everet Hubble born2/4/1950 – Skins arrive on Earth
(Harvest)2/5/1950- 1st day in Skins (Whitaker
Diary)2/13/1950 – Skins’ motor skills improving (Whitaker
Diary)3/8/1950 - Vanessa Whitaker adopts her maiden name
Vanessa Crawford (Whitaker Diary)7/4/1950 – Skins have
been looking for the Royal Four for three months (Whitaker
Diary)1950? - Observation of alien held in captivity by
FBI ends (Escaped? Died?)1951 – Phillip Evans and Sheriff
James Valenti born (Crashdown Timeline)1952 – Diane Evans
(M&I Mom) and Special Agent Stephens born (Crashdown
Timeline)1952 - Atherton involved in Project Blue Book
(Air Force project on aliens)1955 - Jeff Parker born
(Crashdown Timeline)1955 – Atherton publishes “Among Us”
(Crashdown Timeline)10/4/1957 – Whitaker reports that
morale is low, 20% of Skins have died, and that they must find
the Granolith to go home (Whitaker Diary)1957 – Nancy
Parker (Liz’s Mom) born (Crashdown Timeline)1/8/1958 –
Whitaker states "How?" in her diary (Whitaker Diary)1958 –
Milton Ross born (Crashdown Timeline) [Note – this does not
fit with him being old enough to be in the “Ice Cream Parlor
Picture” from 1959 – unless he was a VERY mature
1-year-old]11/16/1959 - Atherton dies (murdered?)1959
- Milton (Max's Boss) has picture with "alien" shadow next to
him outside the Ice Cream Parlor 1961 – Amy De Luca born
(Crashdown Timeline)11/3/1962 - Whitaker writes "Still
can't talk about it.” (Whitaker Diary)1962 - Agent Lewis -
first head of Special Unit killed in CO2/13/1963 - Nicolas
was a general in the palace at home (Whitaker Diary)1964 –
Agent Kathleen Topolsky born (Crashdown Timeline)1967 -
Agent Delbianco killed in TN9/23/1968 - Skins are begin to
peel (Whitaker Diary)3/23/1970 - Nicolas orders skins to
"clean up" their personal data to fit in better with humans
(Whitaker Diary)1970 - Sheila Hubble dies
(murdered?)1972 – Silo Murder occurs involving Hubble and
Sheriff Valenti Senior1977 – Phillip and Diane Evans marry
(Crashdown Timeline)5/14/1978 - Nicolas plans the Harvest
(Whitaker Diary)1979 – Jeffery and Nancy Parker marry
(Crashdown Timeline)10/15 or 25/1982 – Isabel’s birthday
(Surprise)3/15/1983 – Max’s birthday (Blood
Bothers)5/7/1983 – Tess’s birthday (Tess, Lies and
Videotapes)1983 – Kyle, Maria, Ales & Liz born
(Crashdown Timeline)10/11/1984 - Nicolas tells Whitaker to
be a senator (Whitaker Diary)1984 – Jeff Parker opens up
the Crashdown Café (Crashdown Timeline) [What happens to
Parker’s – the predecessor to the Crashdown? - Z]1987 –
Liz wears the “Cupcake Dress” to school in kindergarten
(Crashdown Timeline) [Would make Liz an awfully YOUNG
kindergartener – maybe they start early in NM?? - Z]1989 -
Pod Squad come out of the cave (look like 6-year-olds)1989
– Max heals pigeon in the park (Toy House)1989 – Kyle’s
mom, Jim Valenti’s wife leaves (Wipeout)1990 – Maria’s Dad
leaves (Sexual Healing)1991 – Max sees Liz for first time
in 3rd grade (Crashdown Timeline) [Again, this would be off
based on their timeline – Liz would be in 4th grade. I think
Liz started K in 1988, and Max saw her for the first time the
following year – 1989 - in 1st grade after he gets off the
bus, BUT they did not officially get to Know each other until
3rd grade – Z]1991 – UFO Museum founded (Crashdown
Timeline)1991 - 92? - Liz and Max "meet" in the 3rd grade
for the first time (but may have been in the same school
before this, just didn't meet.)1992 - Max and Isabel
"find" Michael again1992 – Alex meets Liz in 4th grade,
but they do not become close friends until the 5th grade
(Crashdown Timeline)1993 – Brody abducted by
aliens5/29/1994 - Vanessa Crawford marries John Whitaker,
Congressman from New Mexico (Whitaker Diary)5/16/1996 -
John Whitaker dies in "tragic" plane crash (Whitaker
Diary)1997 – Brody buys an alien beeper1999 - Agent
Daniel Summers killed 5/5/1999 – Whitaker writes about
dating Pierce (Whitaker Diary)9/17, 18 or19(?)/1999 - Max
saves Liz - and Roswell is Born!! 9/27/1999 – The Morning
AfterFall 1999 – Max and Liz are both
16-year-olds10/19/1999 – Leaving Normal – Grandma Claudia
visits10/28/1999 – Liz’s Journal is found
(Missing)11/11/1999 – Scooby Gang drives back from
Atherton’s12/2/1999 – Heatwave hits Roswell!12/3/1999
– Liz and Alex wind up in jail after party
(Heatwave)12/4/1999 – Max & Liz share their first kiss
(Heatwave)2/14/2000 – Liz goes on her Blind Date with Doug
Shellow2/2000 – Beeping in the desert (SH)2/21(?)/2000
– Orb found by Max and Liz (SH)4/18/2000 - Daniel Pierce
leaves for Roswell (Whitaker Diary)5/5/2000 – Rare
alignment of Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Earth’s
Moon and the Sun (4everyoung)5/14/2000, 4:33 pm – Pod
Squad set off the communicators – sending a pulse detected by
other aliensFall 2000 – Scooby Gang begins 11th grade
(Monsters) or 12th grade based on comments in Season 2
9/25/2000 – Congressional hearing closes down FBI Special
Unit (S&B)9/29/2000 - Whitaker decides to set up her
Roswell office, Pierce doesn't return her calls (Whitaker
Diary)10/6/2000 - Whitaker's office is set up, and has
employed Liz Parker. Nicolas reports deserters from Copper
Summit. (Whitaker Diary)10/7/2000 - Whitaker reports
Pierce is "the shapeshifter," and that since he went to Max
Evans, Evans must be one of the hybrids. Also wonders if Iz is
really Vilandra: It is possible the Queen could have reversed
Vilandra's and the Bride's roles to throw them off track.
Realizes Liz's importance to the hybrids and tapes her calls.
Killed Harding, the shapeshifter. (Whitaker Diary)10/15 or
25/2000 – Isabel celebrates her 18th birthday10/25 or
11/25 – Whitaker was supposed to report to Skins, but doesn’t
(Harvest) [The dates in Surprise, TEOTW & Harvest are ALL
screwed up – someone should e-mail a copy of this timeline to
the writers! Z]10/27(?) or 11/3/2000 – Future Max visits,
causing Liz to fake sleeping with Kyle, pushing Max to accept
Tess (thus, changing forever the course of
history)11/23/2000 – Max goes to the Summit; calls Iz with
details of offerFall 2000 – Harvest of Skins due or they
will die (Harvest)12/7/2000 – Grant’s ?? birthday
(Surprise)12/23/2000 – Max heals kids in Hospital
(ARCC)12/24/2000 – Max attends Midnight Services,
expressing his Belief in Liz (ARCC)2014 – Minutes before
the destruction of Earth, Future Liz Convinces Future Max to
go back in time and convince Liz to deceive Max into “falling
out of love with her” – thus, changing the future (TEOTW)

In Summary

I know I have NOT covered everything (there’re an amazing
number of clues to be found!), but that would be impossible
and I’d never do all the wonderful theories justice! There is
lots of speculation about other characters revolving around
Liz, and why they are important to the discussion. Some have
wondered why Max and Agent Stevens had the same address – just
an inside joke or more? Tangents are welcome on this Thread as
long as they ultimately lead back to Liz! I'm trying to “sum”
up the core issues here - Liz's importance and connection to
the podsquad – Max in particular! I hope others will help fill
in some of the gaps, but this is my attempt to continue the
wonderful input, and make this thread accessible. Lots to
think about!! So – theorize away!!! All theories on "Liz’s
Importance to the Alien Mythology" are welcome.

OH, BTW (I always have to add this – if anyone from THE WB
reads this), WE ALL AGREE THAT THE LIZ/MAX CONNECTION IS
CRITICAL TO THE SHOW, AND THAT TOGETHER MAX AND LIZ MAKE AN
INCREDIBLE FORCE TO BE RECKONED WITH!!

A couple of general “rules” – NO SPOILERS, but anything
“aired” is subject to discussion. Pictures are welcome, as is
deleted dialog from posted scripts of shows that have been
aired and commentary by writers/producers.

Zero I Shall Believe!!

By aldebaran

01-07-2001,
06:33 PM

Yeah, a new thread! Can't wait to reread the "summary" - so
much new stuff and new ideas to read. It has been interesting.
I can't wait for another ep so we have new theories to
discuss!

By reguru

01-07-2001,
06:39 PM

Great intro as always, Zero. I posted this on the old thread
after you said to move to this one, so am reposting. Will add
the pictures from the old thread that we have been discussing.

Metaphysicalgrl asked:quote:OK, I don't want this
to get lost on the new thread...but I have to say the more I
look at these two images together, the more I am convinced
that the symbol on the left IS the Granolith! Come on
now...anybody? Am I on crack or does anybody else see this
too?

I think at least 4 of us agree so far, Bluecornmoon, you,
Starbox and me. So unless we are all on something
hallucinogenic, we may be on to something. Actually, this has
been bugging me since the beginning of this thread when I
noticed it for the first time after myriad viewings of M2TM.
As difficult as it has been since MITC, except for ARCC, to
have no new Roswell eps, it has provided an opportunity to
uncover new things that hadn't been noticed before. Surely has
helped carry me through this dry period.

When Ask Not reruns on Monday, notice the wall behind Max
when he is talking to Maria about how to be a leader and how
he is to know how to make good decisions. You will see a sign
saying "Harvest"! Loved that!

By SQUEAKER

01-07-2001,
06:47 PM

PLEASE HELP US KEEP LIZ ON THE ISLAND. WE ARE LOSING
HER!!!!JUST COME TO THE "TRIBAL COUNCIL SURVIVOR GAME"
THREAD AND VOTE OFF LONNIE". PLEASE HELP. THANK YOU PM
ANYTIME

By aldebaran

01-07-2001,
06:54 PM

Forgive me for not remembering who first brought this up, but
with regard to the shading that is on the "sketches" of Max,
Isabel and Michael but that is missing on Tess....perhaps this
is because she changed the picture that was there (by
rearranging the molecules or whatever it is that they do) to
put her pic there. No attention to details on her part, I
know, but she was probably thinking more of getting her pic on
there in order to deceive the other podsters (and wasn't
counting on a mythologist to pick that detail up .) Perhaps
the original pic was of Liz! Why else would Tess' have been
made using a non-shading technique that, under closer
scrutiny, would appear so different? Then again, maybe the
person who "wrote" the book knew something about the false
podster but wasn't in a position to say anything (for fear of
death or something). So the only way to get the "message" out
was to make Tess' pic different from the real Royal 4 (now I
have that tune in my head - one of these things is not like
the other, one of these things is just not the same)

By StarBox

01-07-2001,
07:17 PM

Zero - excellent summary - you are amazing! I can tell you
worked really hard on it but it looks great!BTW - the
Arthur C Clarke book is in FourSquare :-)

Here is the Image Gallery that goes with the introduction.

Liz and max with the "V" pattern holding hands:

Liz
as Venus:

Liz and Max as twin souls - notice how they come together
to form the"swirl" on the orb activated during Sexual
Healing. Also - notice the"Emergency" sign behind them -
when they come to gether it reads "MERGE". The animation is
from the alternate ending to Leaving Normal and is complimets
of RedHawk (THANKS!!)

Liz as the keeper of/key to the granolith:Picture of
the granolith chamber in the crashdown:

Sheila Hubble:

Liz as the Virgin Mary/key to Salvation:

The dragon on Liz's window:

Liz as the Trojan Horse (she was avoiding Maria in the
Pilot and ate lunch with Mary TROY). Horses have shown up alot
in pictures, etc but here is the horse that ran in front of
Max's jeep in Blood Brothers:

Liz as the Tree of Life and EAGLE imagery - see the tree
mural on the wall - and also the EAGLE figure on the
table.

The "destiny" book with the name "LIZ" backwards next to
what looks like the granolith sideways:

ZERO AND STARBOX: Thank you for the great summary and the
beautiful pictures.

By Qfanny

01-07-2001,
07:42 PM

Yesterday Dreamergirl68 brought me a copy of the production
script from Sexual Healing. I believe that this is a first
final draft, as there are a few changes made to the interiors
and exteriors. I have so much to say on this version, I was
honestly thinking of starting its own thread, but I decided
against it.

I am going to start little by little and add stuff as we
go.... The first thing I would like to point out, a lot of the
flashes and visions are different or were described
differently than how I interpreted them. SH is a heavy Liz
show afterall, so I'm posting the visions here....

Vision 1-Girls Locker Roomquote:LIZ, changing for gym
class. The other girls have left; she's alone. MAX walks in.
He looks at her; she sees him. Very erotic. With a gesture of
his other hand, he changes the harsh fluorescent lighting to
romantic mood lighting. MARIA enters the scene, in her
waitress uniform. They all see one another.

My comment on this flash is Maria's presense. Certainly
when the final cut was made, this flash had changed, but I
find it weird that Maria would be a part of her vision on that
they would all see one another. Of course, this is suppose to
be Liz's fantasy, but latter, I found this in the script,
along with a cut line....

[quote]LIZ: "No. I always knock the strawberries
oever this time of night. Especially on Thursdays. Right Jose?
(the cook)"

***Liz is flustered. As if Max "caught" her in her fantasy.
Everything she babble makes it worse.****

And there was this comment made in the script after the
back kitchen flash....

***The flash is a most intense sexual feeling, like having
an orgasm for the first time. Surprising, alarming even, and
forever after, necessary.*****

That puts a whole different light on the flashes doesn't
it. Does Liz get flashes because she's changed? Or does Liz
get flashes because they are part of mating??? And it would
seem to suggest a physical need for Liz to be with Max...
EOTW, "There will never be another you."

I have to accept the fact Liz is changed. An orgasm is a
biological reaction, and thus the flashes are triggered
because Liz is sexually aroused. Flashes would seem to be part
of the alien mating ritual.

Eraser RoomMax's flash is different than the one we
know! Nemo if you are lurking, you may want to add this to the
teeth gnawing-chewing ideas you have.

FLASH:Liz, six years old, playing with Barbie and Ken
dolls. Ken strokes Barbie's hair, Barbie's body. Liz mashes
their faces together in a kiss. Liz brings the Ken doll to her
own lips to kiss. Her lips dwarf Ken's head; she opens her
mouth and puts most of him inside.

Max shudders.

Liz: WhatMax: Nothing. (he smiles) Liz Parker. You're
incredible.

One more flash for tonight okay. This one settles the year
the ORB came to Earth. There are many theories as you know.

Locker Room FlashFLASH:Series of impressionistic
images. We catch glimpses of U.S. soldier circa 1947 heading
toward us. We move through the brush fast, as if running away
from soldiers. We hear a distinctive sound, a STACCATO BEEP.
Before she can see more details, the flash ends.

It is safe to assume that the orb was hiddened by someone
after the crash in 1947. Question? How does this flash of
Liz's relate to Sof47. Do you think Hal Carver or any of his
associates, Richard Doty or the two privates killed were scene
by Liz. And if so, will Liz be able to figure it out?

If a PTB is lurking and you would prefer I not post this
stuff, just PM to let me know, or contact a moderator and they
can let me know..... I will remove it.

By Zara

01-07-2001,
07:57 PM

Well, I posted to the old thread by mistake. May I repost?

Zero, thank you for the eloquent introduction! Starbox,
thank you for the pictures!

Please forgive the length of my post. I've been thinking
again, which is always dangerous...

Megageekgirl, you wrote that you think perhaps Tess is an
imposter who does not actually belong with the podsters and
that the book was faked to include her.

I agree. It's VERY significant that the book came from Tess
in the first place. Though it has a great deal of interesting
symbolism it may not necesssarily have a great deal of TRUTH
about it. She pulled it out of the wall in the library - who's
to say she (or Harding) didn't alter it for their
personal/team gain? I say again (rather loudly) WHERE IS THAT
BOOK NOW, ANYWAY?!

By the way, it disturbs me that Tess is the one who
initially led Max to the Pod Chamber. What episode was that,
Four Square? If you watch it again, notice that Tess takes him
out into the desert at night and all of a sudden it's daytime
and she leads him to the pod chamber. It's very much like
Brody's description of abduction and the lapse of time in Meet
the Dupes. Most Suspicious.

I believe:

1) Tess is not one of the royal four, though she may not
know it; I like the theory that she is a one of a protector
species but thinks she's the bride because of Harding's
influence

2) The main mission of the podsters is to develop their
humanness in order to survive and that their survival and the
perpetuation of their species (or what's left of it) can only
take place on Earth, because

4)Liz is an evolved human as a result of the healing
(Qfanny, ) though I wonder if even as a human...

5)she may be the fourth podster. The last time I watched
the momogram it seemed unclear the bride really was. On second
viewing, I seemed like mom was talking about Liz, not Tess.
Who's to say the 4th couldn't have been human, anyway?

What if Tess knew that if she got the four of them in the
pod chamber (Max, Is, Michael and Liz) that the Mommogram
would be activated by their collective essence! What if she
got a free ride because it looked like mom was talking about
her when in fact it was LIZ all along... Still I couch this by
saying that Tess's manipulations could be a result of
Harding's influence on her.

Also, I'm not particularly concerned with the Nikolas and
Khivar issues, because their power is rooted in the existence
of a great political war on Twilo. Since I think there's no
kingdom left to go home to, their power is greatly diminished
although their evil intent can be dangerous. They think
they're fighting for Twilo; they're really fighting for what
remains of their own lives.

Finally, I think the freckles were airbrushed ON the photo
in that calendar to get us talking! Liz may have a V
constellation on her chest (cool if so) but I doubt Ms.
Appleby does.

By rosfan

01-07-2001,
08:09 PM

quote:Originally posted by Qfanny:

FLASH:Liz, six years old, playing with Barbie and Ken
dolls. Ken strokes Barbie's hair, Barbie's body. Liz mashes
their faces together in a kiss. Liz brings the Ken doll to her
own lips to kiss. Her lips dwarf Ken's head; she opens her
mouth and puts most of him inside.

Max shudders.

Liz: WhatMax: Nothing. (he smiles) Liz Parker. You're
incredible.

Can I just say how happy I am that this scene was never
filmed/was edited out? It just sounds a little wierd.

Zero, I think the reason your bold is not working is
because you put the slash after the second b and not before
it. I think it is [/b] and NOT [b/]. Now let's see if I can do
it correctly (I've never tried bolding before).

By GraceKel

01-07-2001,
08:11 PM

Zero welcome back from ski trip and thanks for starting us
off--beautiful job as always.

Reguru--Remember I told you I thought I saw this W U
somewhere else----well if you have a copy of 285S when Isabel
grabs Max to leave the crashdown and Liz follows because they
realize Michael found a car---when they go outside the
crashdown there is a banner which reads PLANET WUU? Huh funny
huh? I don't know if it means anything or not just reporting
what I observed because I remembered I had seen that W b4 LOL.

QFanny--thanks for posting that stuff on sexual healing
eppy--why would they object to it---it is a past episode?
Anyways QFANNY I have always believed that the clock being set
for VENUS to 2:20 in UFO CONV eppy was important--and remember
Max says that Tess told him that the allignment had woken up
their biological drives? Well this is what I am certain had
happened to Liz and Max. The next cycle would be 245 days from
Feb20 which would be OCTOBER 25th---do you know why that date
is significant from EOTW eppy---FutureMax told Liz that they
had made love instead of going to the concert remember? And of
course they had to change that--I think we had figured out 245
days from then would be sometime in JUNE? I guess we shall
see.

By rosfan

01-07-2001,
08:17 PM

Woohoo!!! Rosfan can correctly bold .There will be no
stopping me now!

BTW, if anybody else didn't know how to bold, what you
(apparently) do is type [b ] at the beginning of what you want
to bold. Then you type [/ b] at the end of what you want to
bold, except leave out the spaces.

See, it is true. You do learn something new every day!

By Qfanny

01-07-2001,
08:28 PM

quote:Originally posted by GraceKel:QFanny--thanks for
posting that stuff on sexual healing eppy--why would they
object to it---it is a past episode? Anyways QFANNY I have
always believed that the clock being set for VENUS to 2:20 in
UFO CONV eppy was important--and remember Max says that Tess
told him that the allignment had woken up their biological
drives? Well this is what I am certain had happened to Liz and
Max. The next cycle would be 245 days from Feb20 which would
be OCTOBER 25th---do you know why that date is significant
from EOTW eppy---FutureMax told Liz that they had made love
instead of going to the concert remember? And of course they
had to change that--I think we had figured out 245 days from
then would be sometime in JUNE? I guess we shall see.

GraceKel: I am pretty certain that this copy of the script
is not the final-final version because of all the
interior-exterior changes in it. It's pretty close to what
I've read before for cut lines, but slightly different. The
copy I got also contained the VFX Notes for special effects on
4 different dates no less... It could be the final version,
but I doubt it. As there are a few minor rewrites in it and
set changes. I would count the rewrite as the final version
myself. Perhaps that is not what is done.

There are also notes on the construction of flash segments
and what tapes to use. Being a former analog editor, I
understand this sheet pretty well. It looks like someone
jotting down ideas for the flashes, and possible source
footage.

Anyway, I just want to play it safe... The producers are in
charge of the storyline of Roswell and there could be things
here that they do not want anymore.... I just want to let them
know that if they don't like seeing what I got, I will gladly
remove it.

I think all we are trying to do is answer some of the
bigger questions we have about the total Roswell canon...

By
bluecornmoon

01-07-2001,
08:32 PM

Zero: Amazing Compilation! Katims should write a thank you
note to you because I'm sure he knows that if he ever looses
his notes, all he has to do is read yours!

In case we have a drough of episodes, like now, if we ever
need new (new?) topics, all we have to do is pick one from
this page and rehash!

StarBox: ... and you had time to post the pictures?

By
Metaphysicalgrl

01-07-2001,
09:01 PM

quote:Originally posted by Qfanny:

FLASH:Liz, six years old, playing with Barbie and Ken
dolls. Ken strokes Barbie's hair, Barbie's body. Liz mashes
their faces together in a kiss. Liz brings the Ken doll to her
own lips to kiss. Her lips dwarf Ken's head; she opens her
mouth and puts most of him inside.

Max shudders.

Liz: WhatMax: Nothing. (he smiles) Liz Parker. You're
incredible.

OK, I really didn't need that visual in my head!! Does
anyone feel this scene is vaguely reminiscent of this scene in
SH ....

MARIA: Are you crazy? This is dangerous. This isn't like a
game! We don't even know what could happen!

LIZ: Look who's talking! You were the first one to take the
plunge, Maria!

MARIA: Michael and I just kissed. Ok, fine. We did a little
more than kissing. But, look, I wasn't getting visions, and I
didn't have glowing hickeys and rashes and...look, Liz, the
bottom line is that we don't know what this is about, all
right? Female spiders can, you know, bite off the males' heads
after they mate. What if they need someone to mate with to get
certain information, you know? And then...Blttt! You know?

LIZ: What're you been trying to say? That Max is just gonna
bite my head off?

Thank god for the revisions!!! And I hope in that cut scene
Max is shuddering from revulsion and not something else...

Have a pleasant evening!!!

By StarBox

01-07-2001,
09:14 PM

QFanny - REALLY fascinating stuff on the flashes - do you have
more??? Although I agree - the ken-doll scene was a little
suggestive for me - GLAD they changed that. I mean - I thought
the shot scenes were dancing on the line to kiddie-porn - the
ken-doll thing would have been way over the line. The
"forever necessary" line was so interesting as well.....

BlueCornMoon - well - I had the pictures saved on a file so
it didnt take much time to post them <vbg>

**StarBox**mythologist, dreamer

By nermal

01-07-2001,
09:18 PM

Liz as the Black Widow?

I don't think Liz is going to bite Max's head off, but
sometimes I wonder with the healing and the reverse connection
if Liz isn't somehow absorbing some of Max's essence. I also
wonder when they talk of "cementing" their relationship if it
means that it would make this process complete or
irrerverible.

By
shapeshifter

01-07-2001,
09:28 PM

Hi all! Thread 24 is up. Thread 22 got lost in the ISP's
Wipe Out of our site by evil alien software.

reguru, about the difference of the rendering of Tess in
the Book pic: It could just be that a different WB artist did
it after they selected Emilie for the role--maybe the original
WB artist was just told to leave a space there because Tess
hadn't been cast yet. Or, maybe the original intent was
exactly as you say, but they later decided to make her more of
a friend than a foe (like they did with Valenti). I wonder if
the writers have a hard time keeping the bad guys "bad"
because the actors get along so well. I wonder if they dropped
Nasedo because they couldn't quite decide if he was good or
bad.

Lately I've been thinking that the leaking pod would
obviously be Tess, because that could explain her late
hatching. I am wondering if the stuff that leaked somehow got
to Liz. Recall Parker's bar in Summer of '47. Maybe Liz's
paternal grandfather absorbed the alien essence but it stayed
dormant until it was passed on to Liz and she was born. Maybe
that's also why it took so long for Max and everyone to
hatch--they were (as FM said) a complete unit and couldn't
hatch separately--this could be true of the essence/goo stuff
too, so the leaked essence couldn't awaken without a female to
hold it, and that couldn't happen until Liz was born
(granddaughter to Pete Parker--um, no relation to Spider Man),
and M,M, & I couldn't hatch til Liz was born.

By lurker

01-07-2001,
09:37 PM

since you're discussing SH, has anyone commented on the fact
that the whirlwind galaxy that liz sees in detention in the
science room, which is also the galaxy she sees in flashes,
looks just like the symbol on the orb? i don't now how to add
screencaps, sorry.

Then, this orb symbol can also be seen, I think, in a
picture just over Max's shoulder when he and liz are in the
office and the principle comes out to talk to them.

What i got from that episode was that the orb was
specifically calling to LIZ. she describes it as a PERSON or
thing buried that she needs to find. It really seems like the
orb is connected to her and the granolith and something
triggered it.

also, in Crazy there is an interesting scene where Alex is
walking down the alley and some FBI agents try to get him in
his car then valenti comes up and scares them away. what i
thought was interesting was the bright white cross behind
Alex. Is that supposed to symbolize him as a "savior" type, or
valenti? what do you think?

By kean_jim

01-07-2001,
09:48 PM

vewy intewesting. all of this.

i'm a new'bee on this forum, and on fanforum in general.

i...have to admit...sorry to say...i missed the entire
first season (although i was initiated to Roswell after
watching 5 eppies in a night)...and i really want to see
everything, from the pilot to the finale.

does anyone have these on VHS video?

really really really really want to know about Season 1....

can find trailers but nothing else...

anyone got any idears?

please let me know. thx

By
shapeshifter

01-07-2001,
09:50 PM

lurker,Continuing with my theory above your post and also
'answering' your question about the Orb: How about if Pete
Parker buried the Orb (he was tight with Hal), and got the
leaked essence on him via the Orb. Or, screw the idea of the
leaking stuff as essence (pun?), maybe he just got the essence
via the Orb itself. Maybe it used a frequency to etch the
bride essence on his brain which wouldn't function until it
was passed down to a female descendant.

By mona lisa

01-07-2001,
10:34 PM

zero, wonderful ideas. like the new layout of your thoughts,
it's now a little bit more easier to grasp. love ya and
everything nice

By czech
please

01-07-2001,
10:47 PM

Hey folks, I'm back! Again, sorry if this info has been posted
before...

Something that has nagged at me for awhile now is the
six-pointed star in Liz's bedroom. You can see it in the White
Room scene where Isabel and Alex are talking right before she
dreamwalks Max:

First, I just figured that it was a Star of David and kind
of wrote it off , but today I watched the ep again and
curiosity drove me to look it up. It turns out the the symbol
in WR, in addition to its link to Judaism, has many other
meanings. In the Middle Ages, for example, alchemists used it
to symbolize the "quintessence". This meant nothing to me
until I read that "quintessence" is another word for "fifth
element".

Alchemists also believed that the symbol of two overlapping
lines with four arms of equal length had special meaning:

or

And we do see variations of this symbol in Roswell:

and

(It's hard to see it here, but look at the
spaces between the squares)

Anyway, alchemists believed while each arm stood for an
element (earth, water, fire, air), the point at which the
lines of they intersected represented the fifth element. From
their point of view, the fifth element was basically the
intangible thing that makes up a human soul. This made me
think of something from Destiny: "Knowing you has made me
human."

I think that it's also worth mentioning here that in
certain branches of science the diagonal cross symbolizes
crossbreeding (hybridization) between to species or races. It
is sometimes associated with Christ, and in ancient Chinese,
it stood for the number 5.

Like I said, there are many other ways to interpret all of
these symbols and heck, maybe it is simply a Star of David.
Like so many other things, though, this all seems a bit too
neat to be a coincidence. Thoughts?

By shaiwon72

01-07-2001,
11:01 PM

zero, great job on the intro.

i think that the orbs are part of liz, since we view liz as
the 5th element. it could be calling her out b/c the
constellations were aligned? maybe. maybe the orbs were hidden
by the 2 glowing protectors. maybe immediately after the
crash, the glowing protectors were unconscious when the
military got there and the first thing they saw was the
glowing pods. so those were taken first. upon regaining
consciousness, the protectors hid the granolith and then
attempted to get the pods from the base to the hiding place.
the military, not wanting anymore exposure on the crash,
buried what they thought was garbage, thus the orbs.

just a thought.

By Nemo

01-07-2001,
11:50 PM

czech please, about the X symbol -- one more place this was
"hidden in plain sight" was at the beginning of ARCC -- the
base of the Christmas tree that was being loaded onto the
car.

By czech
please

01-08-2001,
12:11 AM

quote:Originally posted by Nemo:[b]czech please, about the
X symbol -- one more place this was "hidden in plain sight"
was at the beginning of ARCC -- the base of the Christmas tree
that was being loaded onto the car.[/B]

Thanks Nemo! I'm sure there are more. I have a feeling that
there are more six-pointed stars as well, though I can't for
the life of me remember where. I guess I'm just going to have
to watch all of the eps again. *Sigh*...an RBI's work is just
never done

I just wanted to post a few thoughts that I had while I read
the beginning of thread #25.

- Good observation regarding the shading of the podsters
faces in the book (except tess) maybe a clue that she changed
it.

- Did anyone make anything of Liz's mom saying that she
possibly had a high temperature when she came in from seeing
Max SH.

- Qfanny great post on the flashes of SH script. I just
read it and didn't read anything into it. I guess that I
havn't practiced my ability to "study" eps and scripts yet.

Just my quick thoughts before bed.

By Dayneen

01-08-2001,
04:21 AM

Hi everyone I have nothing to add, just been lurking the
last few days reading all of your great theories. Maybe I'll
be able to contribute more soon, it seems as if you all have
covered everything!!! Keep up the great work!!!!

By StarBox

01-08-2001,
05:08 AM

On the subject of Roswell RODS. In Monsters you see the inside
of the UFO center and the sign does say ROSWELL RODS with some
blown up photos of the "Rods" underneath. I forget who
explained the UFO theory of the Rods - but it looks like that
is what the display in the center is about.

Great images/research on the cross-star images. Everything
relates back to the fifth element. Those also relate to
diamnods because the symbolism of a diamond is tied to the
"invisible" cross in the moddle of the shape that connects the
four points with the fifth element of the center. And
according to Aztec/Mayan culture - guess what resides in the
center??? The SUN GOD (Max) or the TREE OF LIFE (Liz).

Also - my latest Season One comment. Liz tells Topolsky
she wants to be a scientist and Topolsky asks her why (or how
long she has wanted that) and Liz says "The fist time I walked
into a chemistry lab and smelled that smell - the SULFHUR - I
felt like I was HOME". Sulfhur is not a pleasant smell and
there is that word HOME. Just seemed a little strange to me.
Could the smell of sulphur be a part of Liz's alien
essence/past?

**StarBox**mythologist, dreamer

By Zara

01-08-2001,
05:29 AM

quote:Originally posted by StarBox:Liz says "The fist time
I walked into a chemistry lab and smelled that smell - the
SULFHUR - I felt like I was HOME". Sulfhur is not a pleasant
smell and there is that word HOME. Just seemed a little
strange to me. Could the smell of sulphur be a part of Liz's
alien essence/past?

Welll, here are some facts about Venus (alot of this has
been posted before, I think):

Venus is hot and dry. It's atmosphere is mostly carbon
dioxide, a greenhouse gas. Its upper atmosphere contains
sulphuric acid. Temperatures of 870 degrees Fahrenheit have
been measured on its surface.

Venus rotates very slowly (once every 243 earth days) in
the direction opposite to most of the other planets (and
opposite to themotion of all of the planets around the
sun. Its solar day is 116 days long. Venus goes around the sun
once every 225 days.

Radar images have shown craters, lowlands, and mountains
(including volcanos). A particularly huge mountain has been
named Maxwell.

By
bluecornmoon

01-08-2001,
06:25 AM

StarBox/Zara: I had done the counting long ago and 225 days
after Feb. 20 (SH), was October 25, the day of Gomez' concert.
The next "mating" cycle for Max and Liz will be June 23rd,
2001! And Venus owes its yellow color to the smell Liz thinks
of home: sulphur!! hmmm....You guys are incredible!
... and as was just said, I'll have to re-watch
everything, again, to look for crosses and Xs!

By
shapeshifter

01-08-2001,
06:41 AM

Hi RBIers! Terrific posts on X's & Venus!If anyone
wants to read through Liz's Importance to the Alien Mythology
- Thread #10 (posts during the original airing of Ask Not), it
is available now at
http://www.ulink.net/plum/Roswell/LizMythology/ .

BTW, Zero, Awesome job.

By Zara

01-08-2001,
07:19 AM

quote:Originally posted by bluecornmoon:StarBox/Zara: The
next "mating" cycle for Max and Liz will be June 23rd, 2001!

Rats! It's post-season! I guess that means we'll have to
resort to fan fiction to get our SH fix on the proper date!

Or perhaps TPTB will grace us with a two-parter to bridge
the summer scheduling gap so our imaginations can run wild for
several months... (not that they don't already, with
ponderings of planetary alignments, ancient symbols, pyramids,
math, myth...)

On a slightly different but related note, I do have
difficulty defining the boundaries of the story. To explain:
scrutiny of clues and the general story line invite research
in literature, science, history, etc. These all help us
understand what's implicit to the story. Though I've not read
the Roswell High books, they may shed meaning as well,
although I think JK et al have probably used the books as a
springboard for a new thing altogether. With regard to the
draft versions of scripts I read comments about them with a
degree of caution. I mean, what may we see as the story? What
we actually see or that plus what is cut? I find some of the
outtakes enlightening, others contradictory. Sometimes I think
storyline directions are made in the cuts. I guess as Liz
would say, it's complicated...

Please note: I appreciate the draft script and cut scene
information shared on this thread and hope you'll all continue
to include them! They just make my little brain hurt a bit...

By
Metaphysicalgrl

01-08-2001,
08:03 AM

quote:Originally posted by shaiwon72:zero, great job on
the intro.

i think that the orbs are part of liz, since we view liz as
the 5th element. it could be calling her out b/c the
constellations were aligned? maybe

In the beginning of SH, we hear Liz talking about how she
feels like she is changing. Like it's almost chemical. Flash
to the classroom where the teacher is talking about the
creation of life and the chemical reaction that ocurred right
after the big bang between hydrogen, liquid oxygen and carbon.

Could it be that a chemical reaction was set forth in Liz
by the allignment of the stars and Max's healing -- creating
an awakening, which was chemically and/or energy based? This
chemical reaction or change of Liz's energy could have
'awakened' the Orbs. We have always wondered why the podsters
weren't given more information. I think that the Orbs are what
the Queen sent down with them to give them the information
they need. There is actual information inside the Orbs which
needs to be released by the podsters. Why they haven't tried
to use them in this way again after the Mommogram is beyond
me.

Maybe it was part of the prophecy on Twilo as well... The
king would bring back to life the fifth element who, when the
time was right, would lead the King to find the answers he
needed to return home and free the people. Or maybe you can
even say Liz was the bride and it was planned this way. When
they were ready (the right age to handle it) the allignment of
the stars would signal an awakening in them, which would lead
them to the Orbs and the answers they needed to begin their
heroes journey. I like this theory! This would also make sense
then, that the shooters could have been from one of the home
planets -- either trying to put what was supposed to happen
(Liz needing to be changed) into motion -- or preventing it
(we have to get rid of her). The two guys could have been
working for the same 'temp agency' as Brody! They were being
'inhabited by aliens!

Anyway, sorry if this has been discussed before...

{~}:}

By
CharmedKitten

01-08-2001,
08:47 AM

quote:Originally posted by StarBox:Also - my latest Season
One comment. Liz tells Topolsky she wants to be a scientist
and Topolsky asks her why (or how long she has wanted that)
and Liz says "The fist time I walked into a chemistry lab and
smelled that smell - the SULFHUR - I felt like I was HOME".
Sulfhur is not a pleasant smell and there is that word HOME.
Just seemed a little strange to me. Could the smell of sulphur
be a part of Liz's alien essence/past?

**StarBox**mythologist, dreamer

Starbox

I do remember thinking that it was rather weird that Liz
loved the smell of the chemistry lab, but then again, I love
the smell of books. But that comment made my ears picked up.
I'll need to think more about it.

By
bluecornmoon

01-08-2001,
09:30 AM

One of the fears I have is that, when they changed writers,
during the first pow-wow they had, they decided to throw away
everything from Season I and start anew!! i.e. They haven't
mentioned the orbs at all this Season. Instead, it's the
Granolith now! Grant you, it'll broaden the scoop of things
they can achieve but they should, at least, mention that the
orbs are an extension of it?

StarBox: It's wonderful to see things from a new
perspective. All the bits you are telling us about Season I, I
had forgotten already! Would you tell us what ep are you
watching because I'll be curious to see what you make out of
... the egg behind Little Liz in SH? and some other things
that are still a puzzle!

Shapeshifter: Your Liz's Mythology site is incredible.
Don't know how you do it!

Zara: Katims said in a recent interview that he had read
the first book of the Roswell High series and that's it! Can't
vouch for the other writers though!

Ever since we got information on the temporary agency, I've
been thinking about Liz's shooters. The scope of suspects
broadened considerably then. It could be anybody in the 5 (4?)
other planets. Of course, I still like QFanny's original
version the best: Max and Michael trying to push destiny! Will
come back with that one!

By Tristan

01-08-2001,
09:53 AM

shapeshifter: I don't care how you slice and dice it, as long
as Liz is the bride and Max and Liz ends up together any kind
of theory works for me

checz please: Love your info on the star stuff, especially
the pics. It is so much easier to understand. Thank You.

kean_jim: Welcome Re: Season 1 tapes I think you might find
some info at Roswell 2 forum. I thought I read somewhere that
you could get access to the tapes there but i am not 100%
sure.

Metaphysicalgirl: count me in. It could be the M upside
down representing the Mountain where the granolith is hidden.
The symbols are on his forehead for a reason, I wish someone
would clarify things as the season goes on. How many lingering
questions can they have before even TPTB loses track?

As for Tess not having the shadow on her face? Well that is
very suspicious but this can be a good thing that her picture
is different. This will leave the door open when TPTB decides
what to do with her.

As for the Picture with Liz's name spelt backwards Maybe
Twilonians read their pictures vertically. This would put Liz
with Max and Michael with Tess. Could Tess be Vilandra, Max's
sister, Michaels lover? Or like mentioned before, Nasaedo
could of manipulated the picture and put Tess later on. The
Bride could be Liz and Tess is just the handmaiden.

By
Metaphysicalgrl

01-08-2001,
10:17 AM

quote:Originally posted by Tristan:

Metaphysicalgirl: count me in. It could be the M upside
down representing the Mountain where the granolith is hidden.
The symbols are on his forehead for a reason, I wish someone
would clarify things as the season goes on. How many lingering
questions can they have before even TPTB loses track?

[/B]

The thing I was trying to get across to you guys was not
that I thought the M was upside down -- indicating the
mountain..but that the symbol on Max's forehead actually
LOOKED like it could be the Granolith...

THE SYMBOL OF THE GRANOLITH CHAMBER

The Symbols On Max's Head

The Granolith

What I was trying to point out was that the symbol on Max's
head kind of looks like this pic of the Granolith. The sides
of the "W" are kind of like the walls of the chamber, and the
little triangle on the bottom of the "W" looks like the bottom
of the Granolith. Anyway, that's what I meant. One way or the
other, I believe that the symbol represents the Granolith, and
I'm glad to know I'm not alone!

{~}:}

THANK YOU NEMO AND TRISTAN FOR HELPING ME TO GET THESE
PICTURES RIGHT!!!

By azcat

01-08-2001,
10:17 AM

roswell rods info:www.roswellrods.com

really interesting site, but I can't think of how rods
would relate to our story...

By StarBox

01-08-2001,
10:31 AM

Zara - Had not made the sulphur/Venus connection - Liz's
comment about smelling sulphur and knowing she was home has
now become HIGHLY suspicious. Very, very interesting.

Bluecornmoon - I have actually been going in order with
Season One because my husband never saw any of the episodes
and I want to see him to see them in order. So I am on Leaving
Normal - will probably watch through 285 South tonight. I do
think I will *have* to to sneak in a viewing of Sexual Healing
- I REALLY want to see about the egg!!! Especially after
QFanny's cut scenes - I am working on a theory about the
childhood flashes.

Shapeshifter - would Maxcedo like an AOL account?? I have
some blank screennames and could make one - thus giving access
to more webspace and picture hosting.

**StarBox**mythologist, dreamer

By Tigereyes

01-08-2001,
10:34 AM

Zero,I'm coming out of my lurker-dom to tell you what an
amazing job you did with the Mythology synopsis. I haven't
gotten a chance to read the threads since #23, and the update
you've done on this one is super. I am going to have to print
this, so I can go over all the newer points mentioned. I just
wanted to let you ( & all the Mythologists) know, I love
reading all the theories and love how little details are
brought into discussion. Keep up the fantastic work. It keeps
us lurkers busy and happy!

By Alexis

01-08-2001,
11:03 AM

About Nasedo: I think he is the one that Riverdog knew because
he told Tess to go to Riverdog to get the healing stones if
anything happened to him. (Destiny). I am not convinced that
he is the same as TicTac, however. It seems as if TicTac was
more protective than Edsedo. Why would Edsedo tell Valenti
about the camera in his house? I know it was FBI, so maybe he
wanted them off his trail, but he knew Liz and Max had been
there.

By Zero

01-08-2001,
11:34 AM

My brain is so jumbled from up-dating this last Intro, I've
decided to start a "cheat sheet" of information discussed
relevant to the next up-date. (Yes, I've done it from memory
up to this point, but as you can all tell, it is getting a bit
long for that to continue! ) There are already some great
thoughts, and we are only on page 2! Could someone summarize
the "cross, six-point star" theory and PM me. I must have
missed something, and I'm not clear on it. I do know that
there are six-pointed stars in a few places in Liz's room -
though I always chalked thes up to Shiri's strong Jewish faith
- but maybe there is more to it. As far as the connection to
the Roswell High books. I read the entire series, and enjoyed
them a lot, but the show seems to "borrow" little from them. I
like the idea that the communicators should be used again -
why not try? There might be more information in them. Got to
go work (real life calls ), but will be back later to read.

Zero I Shall Believe!

By Tristan

01-08-2001,
12:29 PM

metaphysicalgirl: Wow!!! I totally see it now. Sorry for the
mix up. I thought you were the one who said the M was the
upside down W. But your explanation can be clearly seen with
the granolith in the chamber. Thanks and sorry about the
confusion. I worked this weekend and my brain isn't up to
speed yet

Yuppie!! Finally got my second I still feel like a fan in
training but I am sure glad to be considered a Fan

By
Metaphysicalgrl

01-08-2001,
12:33 PM

quote:Originally posted by Tristan:[b]metaphysicalgirl:
Wow!!! I totally see it now. Sorry for the mix up. I thought
you were the one who said the M was the upside down W. But
your explanation can be clearly seen with the granolith in the
chamber. Thanks and sorry about the confusion. I worked this
weekend and my brain isn't up to speed yet [/B]

How can you see it if I can't get the pictures to
work?!? Please help me post those pics so others can see what
I'm talking about!!

Don't apologize for the mix-up...absolutely no need! It was
kind of hard for me to express what I was trying to say about
the symbols and the granolith....

I was hoping the pics would help...but grrrrr...I can't
figure it out!

Smiles,{~}:}

By
StephStephSteph

01-08-2001,
12:37 PM

Just wanted to say hi!

I've been on vacation (in Aruba) for two weeks and have
TONS to catch up on, but.. looking forward to tonight's new
eppy and all the great insights that will come from it!

See you in the Future!

By WR

01-08-2001,
12:43 PM

Hi everyone,

I havn't posted for a while, as I am having a go at a new
project, something I have never tried
before.(Bluecornmoon, this is tougher than I thought. )

Anyway, as part of the research I am doing for it, I found
a site with a whole stack of information that might prove
relevant to Liz's importance. I suggest you check it out
yourselves, rather than me dump the info in here.

www.atlan.org

Some iteresting stuff, especially about the New World, and
there is even some stuff about Horse Sacrifices.

Some of it is speculation, but isn't that what we are
about?

WR

By Nemo

01-08-2001,
12:57 PM

Now that W has been brought "into play" and V has long been
recognized as important, it is intriguing that Maria's car is
a VW and has their V-above-W logo on its nose. (Anyone have a
good image of this?) Interesting that already in the Pilot,
the writers made sure we knew that car was a Jetta, in a way
that was memorable but yet offhand -- not encouraging us to
attach importance to it at the time. Another clue "hidden in
plain sight"?

The VW company being founded in Germany, I guess in the US
we could interpret the Jetta as an alien vehicle.

Also, I'm not particularly concerned with the Nikolas and
Khivar issues, because their power is in the existance of a
great political war on Twilo. Since I think there's no kingdom
left to go home to, their power is greatly diminished although
their evil intent can be dangerous. They think they're
fighting for Twilo; they're really fighting for what remains
of their own lives.

Finally, I think the freckles were airbrushed ON for that
calendar to get us talking! Liz may have a V constellation on
her chest (cool) but I doubt Ms. Appleby does.

By Tristan

01-08-2001,
01:18 PM

THE SYMBOL OF THE GRANOLITH

THE SYMBOL ON MAX'S FOREHEAD

metaphysicalgirl I hope these are the pics.

By Reggie

01-08-2001,
01:28 PM

quote:Originally posted by Nemo:Now that W has been
brought "into play" and V has long been recognized as
important, it is intriguing that Maria's car is a VW and has
their V-above-W logo on its nose. (Anyone have a good image of
this?) Interesting that already in the Pilot, the writers made
sure we knew that car was a Jetta, in a way that was memorable
but yet offhand -- not encouraging us to attach importance to
it at the time. Another clue "hidden in plain sight"?

The VW company being founded in Germany, I guess in the US
we could interpret the Jetta as an alien vehicle.That's
very perceptive, Zero.It's a pity she doesn't drive a
Beetle: a model of car that's truly been "brought back". Of
course, that bumper Michael was working on was curved, like a
Beetle bumper. Isn't a Jetta bumper straight?This will
require further study... -)

By
Metaphysicalgrl

01-08-2001,
01:33 PM

quote:Originally posted by Tristan:

THE SYMBOL OF THE GRANOLITH

Tristan....you're a saint! Thanks! Now, why couldn't I get
that to work?

By WR

01-08-2001,
01:39 PM

OK, Can't get the image here, but the VW symbol is the V
above the apex of the W. And you can see this in the image
posted of the Granolith.

WR

By
Metaphysicalgrl

01-08-2001,
01:47 PM

quote:Originally posted by
Metaphysicalgrl:Tristan....you're a saint! Thanks! Now,
why couldn't I get that to work?

Hey Tristan! Thank you so much for your help. I finally got
all the pics to work. Go back and look at my original post!

Your help is greatly appreciated!!

Big smiles...

By sunrise

01-08-2001,
02:03 PM

Hello all Great job with the theories!

Zero In all the times I've posted here, I never told you
how great the summary is... well, Great Job! really though, I
stopped to read pretty much all of it, which I hadn't done
since thread 19.

Just a random little thing I thought I'd share with you
guys, don't know it's relevant at all, but here I go: I was
watching a rerun of Unsolved Mysteries a couple of days ago
and they were showing a story on Roswell!!! The real incident
and what witnesses said they saw and what some retired
military people said etc... and one thing jumped out at me. A
writer or reporter or something said that one of the four
alien bodies was taken to Florida! "The place where Liz spent
her summer!" I thought Obviously this is completely irrelevant
uless somehow Liz got the chance to examine the body somehow
but I thought I'd share it with you guys, I just thought it
was a funny coincidence between the show and the real incident

On to something useful. Provence from the dreamer thread
made caps from the second season promos/credits and I noticed
something in the background of one with Max And Liz in the
front. If you look in the background you can see what looks
like a painting on its side with some sort of animal, maybe a
horse, I couldn't make it out. Hope someone has better luck!

I hope it comes out. Wait! This might be a more clear
pic.

I thought that since the painting of the ship turned out
important if this is a painting then maybe it'd give us some
more clues.

I sure hope they come out.Roxy

By Kitkate

01-08-2001,
02:05 PM

[img]
http://a1672.g.akamaitech.net/7/1672/25/dcc44f578d85b9/www.thewb.com/roswell/s2e2/promo.gif[/img]
I really believe that Liz is the most important link in
Max's history...I may not have a lot of info to back up my
theory -yet- but it makes a lot of sense...at least to me!!!

First-- I believe that liz is what the royal 4 would call
"the queen" Everyone thinks that Tess is supposed to be
the queen but really the Momogram only said that tess was
max's young BRIDE - not wife not queen! My guess is that tess
died or max had a change of heart before they were actually
married...After all, in Max in the City, Ava says that she
always felt that Zan was waiting for someone else. The other
thing is that the V formation has 5 stars. Although it
represents the planets...isn't it also possible that it could
represent the ROYAL 5?? Liz being the 5th... I think in the
past life Max met a half human half alien girl and fell in
love...they got married and she became queen. Therefore,
because she wasn't completely alien -- she was not completely
accepted...that may be why there is no mention of her -- maybe
it is because certain people don't WANT to remember her...they
are hiding things. And maybe all of the stuff Max and lIz are
going through now (her feeling as though she doesn't belong)
is really a parallelism to the past life when she was not
accepted as queen. The 4 all seem to have titles "The King"
"2nd in command" "the sister" "the young bride" -- wouldn't it
make sense that liz could be the "queen"?? After all, the new
found powers prove that there is something more to all this..
My only complaint - I think they doen played Liz being half
alien now -- this infor should have conjuered up thoughts of
-- is kyle half alien - what else can liz do?? will these
questions be answered in another epi??

By Kitkate

01-08-2001,
02:12 PM

Just something I forgot to add:When Nic called Tess the
genocidal girlfriend -- is it possible he meant something
more?? If so - isn't it possible that Tess did something to
Liz in the previous life which is why no one in this life
feels like they can trust her...maybe she caused a split in
the group -- could she have started a revolution against queen
liz??

By StarBox

01-08-2001,
02:29 PM

sunrise - yes - that is a picture of a horse - yet another
Liz/horse (TROJAN Horse???) image! :-) The more times a symbol
is shown - the more it has credibility as being both
intentional and relevant!

I have read all 25 threads now and want to thank all of you
for all of the great ideas that have been written about. every
thing i have thought about has been put down on this thread
but one. every person that brings up the 8 pods talk about the
leaking one. i wathched the show and saw 2 dead surgeons on
the ground. i don't thing that they go dead for any other
reason than they cut into and removed the fetus and possibly
put another one in it's place or they removed some of the
essence hence creating a possible deformed ava? and if so
where did the essence go after the mother bears and the pods
dissappear to? we know that evelyn dissappeared? why? and for
what reason?

By Alexis

01-08-2001,
02:57 PM

Tristan--thank you for posting those pics! I couldn't really
see any W or V until you posted them and now I would
definitely agree that it is the Pod Chamber Rock Formation
represented on Max's forehead.

By Alexis

01-08-2001,
03:59 PM

quote:Originally posted by luellamayday:I have read all 25
threads now and want to thank all of you for all of the great
ideas that have been written about. every thing i have thought
about has been put down on this thread but one. every person
that brings up the 8 pods talk about the leaking one. i
wathched the show and saw 2 dead surgeons on the ground. i
don't thing that they go dead for any other reason than they
cut into and removed the fetus and possibly put another one in
it's place or they removed some of the essence hence creating
a possible deformed ava? and if so where did the essence go
after the mother bears and the pods dissappear to? we know
that evelyn dissappeared? why? and for what reason?

It is possible the aliens snatched Evlyn and used her to
give birth to the broken pod. Or to carry the essence that
would eventually be Liz? What does everyone else think?

By 4everyoung

01-08-2001,
04:01 PM

Hi everyone

Been out for a few days, so I had to read up.

Zero Fantastic intro as ususal.

Some great new insights by all (newbies included).

On the VW symbol on the Jetta. If you look at the symbol, V
over the W - doesn't it look like the granolith?

It was you.................Max

By fallen
princess

01-08-2001,
04:34 PM

Ok. Great intro Zero & great pics StarBox...just one
thing, not trying to nag or anything Didn't the Indian
woman at the Mesaliko reservation say that the necklace meant
"tree of knowledge," not "tree of life"?

By fallen
princess

01-08-2001,
04:40 PM

quote:Originally posted by Reggie:As for Liz/Shiri's
freckles: do you have a picture to share? Or, where do we get
the calendars?

I'd scan the pic but I don't have a scanner I bought my
calendar at http://www.roswellstore.com.

By Galaxy Gal

01-08-2001,
04:58 PM

hello everyone!! just droppin' in to see what's going on..

participate in the beautiful American process..

By fallen
princess

01-08-2001,
05:26 PM

From Destiny:

{The crosses/X's...hehe}

By
Metaphysicalgrl

01-08-2001,
05:26 PM

quote:Originally posted by Alexis:It is possible the
aliens snatched Evlyn and used her to give birth to the broken
pod. Or to carry the essence that would eventually be Liz?
What does everyone else think?

Hmmmmm....interesting. How about Yvonne White who was the
nurse in attendance at the autopsy? Could she have had a hand
in all this?

Discuss...

By Tristan

01-08-2001,
06:21 PM

It could be Yvonne. I know they were just role playing but why
cast Liz as Yvonne? The aliens could have used Yvonne to save
the true essence of the bride. Could Sheila Hubble be Yvonne's
daughter? Maybe the image that Liz got from Maxaedo was the
failed attempt of Maxaedo trying to save Sheila. Mr. Hubble
could have misunderstood the silverhandprint. As for the
timeline if it doesn't fit, then Nasaedo or tic-tac could have
incubated Liz until the pods were ready to be hatched so that
Liz and Max would be the same age. Possibly Grandma Claudia
could also be involved by having the Parker's adopt Liz. So
then why is Liz's cell more human, because she had two
generations of human hosts. I know a lot of the info is old
but needed to recap.

By aldebaran

01-08-2001,
07:34 PM

Hey all. I just watched Ask Not and had a question for you.
Did any of you notice (or mention a million years ago after
the first airing of this ep ) the granolith-shaped object in
Brody's office at the UFO center? It was behind Brody and Max
during their "confrontation" and to the left of the door (it
would probably actually be an upside down granolith or V
shape). Just wondering if it has any significance. Also has
anyone spoken on the symbols that were on the pentagonical
beeper? I haven't rewatched my tape, but I could have sworn
one of them was that recurring "granolith" symbol that we keep
seeing.

As a silly side note, did anyone notice that the AMA award
statues also looked like an upside down granolith?? They are
everywhere!!! Maybe I should write on the conspiracy theory
thread!

By Qfanny

01-08-2001,
07:55 PM

Starbox: Actually, maxcedo does have an AOL account (which is
mine) but the user doesn't know html to help. One day this
will be rectified. But maybe I can twist maxcedo's arm into
recruit some more agents, as shapeshifter has been doing a lot
of the work now!

Believe me, I put in my time on the site too.

Anyway, Tristan, I like the granolith symbol-- and whoever
said that they read all 25 threads, I want to know just how
long it took you. LOL!

I wish I put the granolith symbol in my quilt block.

Anyway, here's another stuff from the script:

quote:Liz: We are friends.

Max: Good.

Liz: Why wouldn't we be?

Max: Well, we still haven't talked...

Liz: (Cuts him off) Max. People do really dumb things when
they're drunk. One time, I got really drunk with Maria...

Max: You did?

Liz: She spilled water on her shirt and I tried to put her
in the clothes dryer.

Max: Oooww.

Liz: Luckily, she didn't fit. I couldn't get the door
closed. So -- there you go. I understand.

Max: And -- we're friends?

**Well, yeah, except for all the sexual tension.***

(.... skipping to other cut part....)

FLASH:The flash is a most intense sexual feeling, like
having an orgasm for the first time. Surprising, alarming
even, and forever after, necessary.

Liz: Max. Max.

Max: I know.

**Maria steps out the back door.**

Maria: Hey, your order's getting...

**She sees Liz, held by Max. A wild, ecstatic look on her
face.**

Liz: What?

**Maria, stunned; she's never seen her friend like this.**

Maria: Cold.

**Liz moves away from Max. She looks herself again.***

Looks herself again???? What does that suggest to the rest
of the RBI? Would sexual activity seem to bring about the
"change" in Liz faster? The last line seems pretty odd. (But
not as odd as Max's original vision.)

By czech
please

01-08-2001,
08:52 PM

quote:Originally posted by aldebaran:Also has anyone
spoken on the symbols that were on the pentagonical beeper? I
haven't rewatched my tape, but I could have sworn one of them
was that recurring "granolith" symbol that we keep seeing.

I think that all the symbols on the alien beeper appear
somewhere on the cave painting/desert map and/or the
"Tesstiny" book. I'm sure someone posted on this way back in
the day, but I don't remember the details. If someone wanted
to revisit it, that would be great.

Anyway, off to re-watch Ask Not and search for crosses, X's
and six-pointed stars. I know...obsession is such an ugly
thing.

By Qfanny

01-08-2001,
09:10 PM

Regarding the symbols on the pentagon, I think that the thread
Signs and Symbols discussed this on the first few pages. I
know that I have a huge post on it myself.

Interesting I thought just how the Ask Not question was
answered. I got the impression that Liz is the most powerful
of all the podster/humans because she can motivate Max to do
what is right. When Max says, "I'm coming for you." He meant
it. Liz had to get Max to do something different so THE END
would not arrive.

Also, has anyone reread Whitaker's journal lately? It seems
clear that Whitaker knew about Liz's involvement with the
group and how the aliens were. But the dates do not fit once
again. Remember, school just started, and I think Whitaker
arrived in Roswell in late Sept. School starts in late August
where I am at.

Just more annoying thoughts from me.

By StarBox

01-08-2001,
09:31 PM

QFanny - I have always thought that sexual activity was
causing/would have caused a physical change in Liz.

More thoughts from my Season One marathon :-)

Leaving Normal - Liz says GC "is the whole reason for my
existance". Could she mean that LITERALLY and jsut not know
it??? Also - I am blown away by all the HORSES in these early
episodes. Liz has a horse and a shell next to each other on
her desk. Also - when she and Kyle went to rent movies -
Liz rented WINGS OF DESIRE. (Kyle says that after a few
minutes of "wings of boringness" they will want to watch his
slasher movie) - I am sure he is making fun of Wings of Desire
- which is a foreign film about an ANGEL that falls in love
with a HUMAN and gives up eternity so that he can become human
and be with her.

Oh - and Max has a "U" (a horseshoe I think) above his
bedroom door.

**StarBox**mythologist, dreamer

By StarBox

01-08-2001,
09:34 PM

Almost forgot - when the Dr is talking to Jeff Parker outside
GC's room (which - as has been mentioned before has a huge
HORSE picture on the wall) - they are talking in front of a
sign pointing to the NURSERY. Could that point to GC's
involvement in placing the true bride essence in the "Trojan
Horse" of baby Liz????

**StarBox**mythologist, dreamer

By Norma
Bates

01-08-2001,
10:29 PM

quote:Originally posted by Tristan:As for the timeline if
it doesn't fit, then Nasaedo or tic-tac could have incubated
Liz until the pods were ready to be hatched so that Liz and
Max would be the same age. Possibly Grandma Claudia could also
be involved by having the Parker's adopt Liz. So then why is
Liz's cell more human, because she had two generations of
human hosts. I know a lot of the info is old but needed to
recap.

A really far out idea -- perhaps GC is Liz's mother? She
would have been 50 when Liz was born. Not too old, although
high risk. She could have arranged to have her son adopt it.

By czech
please

01-08-2001,
10:44 PM

quote:Originally posted by Qfanny:Looks herself again????
What does that suggest to the rest of the RBI? Would sexual
activity seem to bring about the "change" in Liz faster? The
last line seems pretty odd. (But not as odd as Max's original
vision.)

Qfanny--OK, now you've got me thinking. Remember what Mrs.
Parker says to Liz after eraser room incident in SH: "Once you
enter that world...you know, sexual intimacy...everything
changes." To me, this strongly foreshadowed EOTW. Looking at
your post, now I wonder if she might be another one who knows
more than she's telling. It's also curious that Mrs. Parker
was the one to suggest that Max and Liz not see each other at
the end of the ep. Is it possible that she was trying to stop
what was coming (either full activation of Liz's "changes" or
the original version of the future)? Maybe this was just a
normal parental reaction, but then again we are talking about
Roswell...

By
shapeshifter

01-08-2001,
10:50 PM

This will be brief. Need to sleep, drive daughter's science
project to school, work, etc.

Reggie et al, re Liz/Shiri's freckles: In watching Ask Not
it was obvious that these are real freckles. But the calendar
does only show the 5 that make a V. In AN, there is another
row ( a W? )

Alexis, Also after watching AN: the body snatching would
fit with Brody's healing experience--I mean, it wouldn't be
anymore complicated than implanting an essence into an embryo.

I am thinking that the reason Brody's Beeper didn't mind
Max is because he had the Kingly Stencil on his brain.

I have other ideas from AN re the Congresswoman, but they
conflict with siverhandprint. Bluecornmoon, I'm afraid there
are too many writers in any season to keep it straight. But
that's what keeps us creating theories to tie up plot holes!

By Zero

01-08-2001,
10:59 PM

Hi All -

I rewatched Wipeout today, and I don't believe Niko was
connected with the Dupes prior to this point in time. If he
had been - as in being their shapeshifter - he would have
immediately recognized Iz, but he didn't. He just had his
suspecions that she was. I also got over to the Whitaker diary
for another quick read - though I only got though a portion of
it - but Niko was definitely part of the group of Twiloians
that came to be known as Skins. SOOOO - that raises the
question concerning HOW the Dupes came to Niko and the other
aliens attention - enough to be invited to the summit??
Ummm... There is a definite missing link there!

In Ask Not tonight, did anyone else notice that the house
that Max walks Tess back to is NOT the same house that TLV
took place at? I noticed the first time around, but it didn't
bug me until tonight - and was that one of those expensive
antiques crashing in the background?

Also - the comments that Max makes to Liz about "I'm coming
for you Liz!" makes more sense if you believe the theory that
Liz is the bride sent on another ship for safe-keeping to
Earth prior to the Pod Squad, which come later with Tess as
the fake bride. I can picture Zan (Max in prior life) telling
his maybe murdered bride, as he prepares to send her essence
to Earth for safe-keeping that he will come for her, no mater
what, he will find her! I'm not sold on that theory, but I can
just picture it as I watch that scene!

Finally, those looking for six-pointed stars (or Stars of
David, as I know them), there are two on the top shelves
behind Liz's bed. They are prominent at the beginning of TEOTW
- when FMax first comes into her room, and she stands on her
bed. Just in case you haven't noticed those.

Night all!

Zero I Shall Believe!

By dreamertoo

01-09-2001,
04:38 AM

First let me say that I am brand new here, and this site is
amazing. And I thought I was a really big Roswell fan! You all
really put me to shame.

You all have seen all this symbolism that I haven't even
noticed. I guess I was too wrapped up in the romance of the
show to look more closely. Now I want to go back and watch all
the episodes over again, just to see all the things you all
have been talking about. Unfourtantly, I was one of the one's
without much forethought, I didn't tape a single episode. If I
had know about the things you all have been discussing just on
this thread, I would have started with the pilot.

When did the entire world, with the exception of myself,
become such a font of knowledge on things like symbolism.
Seeing this thread it's impossible to think that the writers,
whoever they may be for each episode, didn't intend for this
all to come together. You guys are really amazing to have
caught all of this stuff, let alone research it to find the
real meaning behind it.

I, personally, have always thought that Liz is the real key
to the Royal Four, and that Tess is some kind of decoy, or
infiltraitor. That was even before I saw all the Fifth element
stuff, and the Venus connection. How much research did the
writers have to do to implant all this into the background for
all of you guys to see? I would never have thought that they
would go to that much trouble for a show about teenage aliens
and their lives amoung us.

Does anyone know if they acually read the things you write
on these threads? I hae heard that they had considered
canceling the show, and that a show of support from the fans
was the only thing that saved it. If they wanted to find out
how we really felt about this show, all they would have to do
is see this one thread. The time and thought you all have put
into your research, only goes to show exactly how much of an
impact it has had on the viewers. I can't imagine the fans of
any other show going to so much trouble trying to figure out
the implied meanings. It really is an awesome thing to see. I
can only hope that somebody from the WB is keeping up with the
hundereds of Roswell fansites on the net now, especially this
one. It is the best one I have found yet.

I am a stay-at-home mom with three childeren, darn near
thirty, and I was almost embarrassed by my fanatical love of
this show that is obviously intended for a much younger
audience. I don't feel even a little bit guilty anymore. It
good to know there are so many of you all out there. The
spectacular chemistry that is between Jason adn Shiri is more
than normal teenage/twentysomething actors are normally
capable of and I believe it is what makes this show so... I
don't even have the words for it. I know this is probably not
the place to post my personal review, but I just couldn't
resis telling you guys what a wonderful job you have all done.

Thanks for the many hours of enjoyment I have already, and
will have in the future, gotten from this web site.

dreamertoo

By Miss
Roswell

01-09-2001,
05:37 AM

First, I wanted to say, I LOVE this board. Way to go
guys!! You always make me leave here with more things to think
about.

Ok, I have a question. This has bugged me since I saw it
the first time and when I saw it again last night I knew I had
to come in here and ask the 'experts'.

Remember when Max and Maria were outside at school and she
just beat Max with the book? She said something like 'great
leaders always follow their hearts'. IMO, this is also
referenced to Liz. Remember in either TLV or 4SQ, Maria told
her that she knew Liz followed her heart.

So what does this (if anything) represent anything to you?

Thanks in advance.

By aldebaran

01-09-2001,
05:51 AM

starbox - You mentioned that there was a horse and a shell in
Liz's room. I know that one of the things that a shell
symbolizes is that you are on a pilgrimage. My dad actually
told me this (with regard to the Jubilee year and making a
pilgrimage). Way way back years ago, people who were on
pilgrimage wore shells around their necks to let eveyone know
that they were making a pilgrimage. I even have one from the
pilgrimage I made last year. I didn't see the shell that you
referenced, so I don't know what kind, shape, etc. I just
thought I would put this little tidbit out there.

By
Dreamdancer

01-09-2001,
05:56 AM

I think that you have something there shapshifter. The stencil
on Max brain is like some kind of Proteterant forcefield. The
forcefield could have been activated when Max got his pysical
green sheild thingy

By StarBox

01-09-2001,
06:29 AM

Hi All -

I rewatched Wipeout today, and I don't believe Niko was
connected with the Dupes prior to this point in time. If he
had been - as in being their shapeshifter - he would have
immediately recognized Iz, but he didn't. He just had his
suspecions that she was. I also got over to the Whitaker diary
for another quick read - though I only got though a portion of
it - but Niko was definitely part of the group of Twiloians
that came to be known as Skins. SOOOO - that raises the
question concerning HOW the Dupes came to Niko and the other
aliens attention - enough to be invited to the summit??
Ummm... There is a definite missing link there!

********************************************

UNLESS - Nikolas the skin was at some point in time
replaced with a shapeshifter. Which would explain his ability
to survive Tess's "genocide" (that I STILL think was largely
credit to MARIA) AND his lack of peeling.In MITC he seemed
to have a longer history with the dupes - and in between
Harvest and MTD he was in ROSWELL - so when he would have been
visiting NYC and establishing a relationship if he did not
already know them?

**StarBox**mythologist, dreamer

By StarBox

01-09-2001,
06:31 AM

And now - more thoughts about Grandma Claudia - going on the
basic premise that she was somehow involved with the good
aliens (the real Zan perhaps?) and was an instrumental part of
a plan to "hide" the bride/granolith keeper/choosen one's
"essence" in Liz. What if somehow she gave Liz some of her
"essence" - and when Max healed Liz and set in motion Liz's
"change" - that GC knew she was going to die because the
lifeforce (or whatever it was she was keeping) was passing on
to Liz.Okay - this is a TERRIBLE theory right now - but
maybe someone can improve on it.What I am thinking about
are these things:1) GC knew she had to make an unexpected
(early) visit to see Liz - and she asks Liz about finding her
soulmate (she assumes that Liz has found him - why??? - does
she have an internal way of knowing?? Did Jeff tell her about
the shooting and does GC know about the prophecy?)2) When
Max tries to connect with GC in the hospital room - he doesnt
get a single flash from her. Instead - you see her image
"Flash" as a photo negative. Is Liz now the PRINT and GC the
"negative" that was sued to create the print??? (QFANNY - with
your background in film you could probably elaborate on that
part) Is some part of her essence - what max would have
connected with - now in Liz??? Which leads us to the next
point:3) GC tells Liz "seeing you so full of life - I see
MYSELF - and that is a gift I will take with me" then she
makes Liz promise to follow her heart wherever it takes her.
This would have much more meaning if you go with the premise
that GC was somehow a "keeper of/transporter of" the "essence"
of the choosen one. Apologies is any of this or all of has
already been discussed. :-) I am just getting to rewatch
Season One so bear with my lunatic ramblings.:-)

**StarBox**mythologist, dreamer

By StarBox

01-09-2001,
06:38 AM

Aldebran - REALLY interesting tdbit about the shell - it is
large conch shell - I am pretty sure you see it in Missing
when she pulls Max into her room. It is on her desk next to a
statue of a horse. My husband saw it and said he thought
it was reference to Venus - but I think your idea about the
pilmigrage is wonderful!!! It fits with the "Liz's hero
journey" motif.

**StarBox**mythologist, dreamer

By Alexis

01-09-2001,
06:57 AM

Ooops!!! I didn’t mean Evlyn, I did mean Yvonne White being
used to implant the embryo. Maybe she is Grandma Claudia?

I agree that if they can heal as they did Brody, emplanting
genetically engineered embryos would be a cinch!

I had a dream last night that acted out Max’s past. He
was in love with “Liz” but Ava was put in the wedding as a
decoy because Zan feared for his true love and inspiration’s
assassination. But instead of just the decoy/protector getting
killed the whole bridal party was slain. In despair, “Liz”
tries to lead the resistance, but is killed soon after. The
resistance leaders, knowing that “Liz” is Zan’s true love and
knowing that the prophecy will come true, sends her essence
after the Royal Four revival mission.

This would explain Ava’s involvement and Mom-o-gram stating
that she is Zan’s bride, when in fact it was supposed to be
“Liz.” It would also explain why the true bride was sent
separately and it would show that the true bride was a true
leader, just as Liz is.

I also had a dream about possible powers Liz may possess(I
have Roswell on the brain on Monday nights!!) We already see
that she had a strong connection with Max. She knows when he
is there and can comfort him like no other. Her powers are
primarily psychic in nature (as are all the females with
powers.). I thought it would be a huge gift to be able to
touch someone and make them “forget” seeing some paranormal
activity. That way, if something happened in public,
bystanders wouldn’t be the wiser.

What powers do you think she will develop?

By
StephStephSteph

01-09-2001,
07:23 AM

After watching AN again last night I can't help but wondering
about this significance of Max's line, "I'm coming for you,
Liz".

It just makes my insides BEAM!

By Dayneen

01-09-2001,
07:23 AM

Hi all Zero- I got the impression that Nicholas did
recognize Isabel. Remember in Harvest how he was looking at
her, when he first saw her. The expression on his face looked
as if he was shocked that she, Vilandra had pretty much came
to his front door. He was immediately drawn to her. That gave
me the impression that he recognized her, because he'd already
had contact with the dupes. I don't have a theory about how
Nicholas came across the dupes, but like you, I don't believe
he was their protector. He stated in Harvest that he'd been a
teenager for 50 years. And he briefly mentioned how he's been
teased all these years for being stuck in a kid's body. Plus
he was affected just as much as the other skins by Courtney
destroying the power that fueled the husks. Nicholas's age
makes me wonder why he was sent as a young teen, instead of as
an adult??? Could it be that Kivar new about Nicholas and
Vilandra's secret meetings back on Twilo, and wanted to make
sure, only he would be the one to have her.

Qfanny & Starbox - Interesting theories about the
Sexual activity bringing out the alien essence in Liz more.
Not only did the script imply that Maria was thinking Liz
didn't look herself, but she told her "Liz, you didn't look
normal." Could that have been her true self emerging??? I also
find it very interesting that Liz will have flashes at random,
with a kiss, a touch, when things are sexually heightened etc.
Her flashes have no real pattern. But Max who is really an
alien only gets flashes when he's healing (only time he didn't
was with Kyle), when things are Sexually intense, and when he
was afraid Kyle had Liz's journal. In fact, Max hardly ever
has flashes, where as Liz's flashes are more frequent and at
random. Also, something else, when he gets flashes, from Liz,
they are always of her childhood. Has anyone ever addressed
why they thinks this happens??? In the Pilot, and in SH almost
all the flashes he had of Liz where of her childhood. Yes, he
saw her fantasy, but we didn't see him see this. All the
flashes that we're shown to us, was of Liz as a child. Could
this mean that Liz's alien connection started when she was a
child, perhaps with GC, or maybe she was born half alien, like
many have suggested.

Also, has there ever been any discussion about the drawing
that's on Liz's wall. You can see it behind GC in the picture
below. Could it have some symbolism to Liz's destiny??? Hope
this picture works.

By azcat

01-09-2001,
08:30 AM

I have that calendar. It's the February picture, right? I
hadn't seen the v, then I looked last night, and almost
flipped. Wow, that's creepy! She was wearing a v-neck, and the
freckles are in the exact same place as the tatoo on Max's
brain. Maybe they even modeled the planets' positions after
the positions of the freckles. I would feel really weird if I
was Shiri, having people discussing five freckles on my chest
at length. Oh well. It's relevant!

By
luellamayday

01-09-2001,
08:50 AM

TO Q-FANNY-- and whoever said that they read all 25
threads, I want to know just how long it took you. LOL!

i started dec 23rd after i found thread 23 had a url that
took me to thread 10.I had read the first 9. i only now
realize what devote fans you folks are. i will sign on every
day now. i had head aches from reading so much. you guys rock.

By GraceKel

01-09-2001,
08:58 AM

Welcome Dreamertoo to this thread, I have to tell you I just
love your name LOL!!!

Well guys I must tell you its so funny watching you all
talk about things that we talked to death as the original
episodes aired LOL!!!! Right Zero? Shapeshifter? LOL!!!! Oh
and Zero I am so glad you are giving this theory a chance
now--although I know you are not totally convinced of it.

STARBOX--so happy for you that you got your Season1 tapes I
was feeling so bad about it--now you are rediscovering all
this stuff again LOL!!!

Hey guys someone actually told me they were discussing my S
theory on this other chat or something---ya see we are FAMOUS
LOL!!!!!

You guys have made so many posts I can't even keep up with
the information flowing Alexis, Miss
Roswell,Dreamdancer,Bluecornmoon(Blue I am curious about
your name how did you come up with that?) Oh and NEMO I
noticed that X at the bottom of Xmas tree as well--he!he!

Reguru--did you get to check out PLANET WUU outside the
crashdown in the 285S eppy yet? Is this what could be on the
Max's forehead in that book?

Thanks for the information on the rods--one of the reasons
I particularly was interested it it is because in Meet The
Dupes they show Tess--the word rods--and then that dna helix
swirly thing?

By reguru

01-09-2001,
10:40 AM

GraceKel asked:quote:Reguru--did you get to check out
PLANET WUU outside the crashdown in the 285S eppy yet? Is this
what could be on the Max's forehead in that book?

Sorry, not yet. Work has kept me from what I really like to
do best (watch Roswell)! Once I do, will let you know what I
think. I really do like the explanation though about the W and
it being a symbol of the Granilith because that would fit well
with the other symbols on his head.

To all: The thoughts and conjectures on this new thread
have been terrific. Really keeping me on my toes. Am going to
have to check into the X's along with the W's and U's. I guess
it has become alphabet time!

Still cogitating on Max's phrase "I am coming for you,
Liz". He can't come soon enough to my way of thinking. Get to
it, Max!

By GraceKel

01-09-2001,
10:52 AM

Sunrise--good information of one of the aliens being taken to
Florida---actually Starstruck touched on this briefly after
the airing of Skin and Bones something about the way Maria
said "some aunt in Florida" sounded like a particular place
that somehow linked back to the name Parker--Sumant or
something like that. I forget exactly how right now but I do
remember it coming up, where are you STARSTRUCK the HOLIDAYS
are over LOL!!!!!

Aldebaran-no I did not notice the granilith looking pics in
Ask Not in the museum but I will go back and look, thanks.

Starbox--I had this whole long post many many threads ago
about the importance of Leaving Normal eppy and Grandma
Claudia and QFANNY is very upset with me that I haven't posted
it over on her archives---I am such a procrastinator. I
believe that Liz used the words, "she is the BASIS for my
existence" yes indeed. I rewatched LN recently and noticed
that when Kyle was have a talk with his dad---they showed one
of those HARVEST WHEELS over a hutch--had never noticed that
b4--so we have one outside the crashdown, one beside Maxcedo
right b4 he enters the Hall of Mirrors in M2tM and of course
in the Harvest eppy itself.

Don't even get me started on the HORSE references--this has
been everywhere I think LOL since the beginning.

What do you suppose is the significance if any of the use
of double first letter wordings like Buddha Boy, beer blast, I
forget the first word but when Kyle and sheriff were fishing
he used a double b wording with b bass.

then we have Tourist Trap,troop transport,tictac,too tight,

concerned citizen,cashcow,culture club

Oh and Starbox in Leaving Normal did you notice that Max
said to Michael we have to go back into our SHELLS. Isn't that
what Courtney called the Husks-shells? and coming out from
behind the tree(another husk reference) and of course in MITC
Michael talking to Isabel saying about Max "so they think he
is a tree hugger".

By sunrise

01-09-2001,
11:01 AM

I saw AN last night and I have some things I wanna say about
it. I know that it's been all discussed at length when the
eppy first showed, but I didn't even know FF or crashdown
existed at the time; I'm still a somewhat relatively new
poster so here goes:

Birds have been mentioned many times relating to Liz,
eagles in particular if I'm correct. Well, did anyone else
notice the eagles on the wall we're Liz's desk is in CW's
office? Liz was right in front when I saw them, I think there
were 2. Can someone put a cap if they have it?

In school, the teacher was talking about the Kennedy
Missile Crisis which was refering to Max and his troubles as a
leader. Well, it reminded me of the movie that's coming out
about the event (weird timing IMO) with Kevin Costner and it's
titled "13 Days" 1+3=4. Is it fact that the crises lasted 13
days?

I also noticed a backward "c" when Max, Mike, and Iz were
coming out of the museum. It was on the brick wall on the
right. Did anyone else catch it?

I know this probably not new, but humor me please My
apologies if this has been mentioned many times before me

Roxy

By GraceKel

01-09-2001,
11:32 AM

Sunrise have been enjoying all your posts and
observations---and my mentioning that it was all discussed in
great lengths--I was just having a funny memory of that--as I
read what people are just discovering now I just find it funny
how people are discovering the same things---so they MUST MEAN
SOMETHING!!!!!LOL!!!! But many things you have been finding
have not been discussed as well, it is always great to hear
everyones input, EVERYONES IDEAS ARE WELCOME HERE ALWAYS--even
if you think they seem silly at the time--geez I am proof of
that myself---they haven't kicked me off yet LOL.

Starbox--just read about the horse in hospital waiting
area---YES I remember that one---there is also a HORSE in
Topolskys office when she is confronting Alex did you
catch that one in Blood Bros?

By GraceKel

01-09-2001,
11:36 AM

CzechPlease--I have always wondered about Nancy Parker--and
Jeff Parker for that matter and these conversations. And why
is Nancy always doing LAUNDRY I want to know? I do remember
outside of the TUMBLEWEED INN when that FBI agent came out of
motel room the word COIN LAUNDRY being behind him---but I also
remember in BB the word SOLO OP being behind him as he was
following M and L on the street leading to the
museum----questions questions questions.

By aldebaran

01-09-2001,
11:42 AM

GraceKel - don't forget "Crashdown Cafe" for the double c!

Everyone is making me wish (for the millionth time) that I
had the eps on tape! I just watched AN again last night and
tried my hardest to pay attention to everything (though I know
I was momentarily distracted by Max), but I still feel like I
missed things. I DID tape that ep, though! And I am in the
process of getting tapes, so one of these days, I will be able
to follow everything that is posted!

By StarBox

01-09-2001,
11:42 AM

Dayneen - Yes - I think it IS significant that Max gets
flashes about Liz as a young child - notice he doesnt get any
of her as a baby (he got flashes of the kids in the cancer
ward as babies - granted they were younger - BUT I still think
it is significant) I also have a theory that what he connects
to when he flashes is not random - but is significant to him -
still working on this one. QFanny - could you possibly post
the descriptions of all the Liz-childhood flashes from the SH
script (Or PM them to me)?????????

GraceKel - I KNEW you had LN theory - and I was REALLY
excited to watch it again because when I watched it the first
time - to be honest - I didnt pay much attention to GC. After
reading your posts about GC I was really sure to watch
closely!And I did see the harvest wheel. Do you think they
might tie in Valenti's dad to the GC/Crash/Sheila Hubble/etc
storyline???And I did think the shell comment was
interesting. I think the tree comments link to Liz not the
skins though.As for the double letters - it could be alot
of things - possibly a reference to the dupes/decoys -
possibly a hint to the number corresponding to the repeated
letter (BB would be 2, CC - 3 - etc). I noticed in Pilot in
BOTH the music room and the math/science room the letters AEF
are written on the chalkboards. This would correspond to
1-5-6. Dont know if it means anything - but it was
interesting.

Also about Roswell rods - in Missing when Liz talks to Max
in the UFO center storage room - you see Max next to a folder
with ROSWELL RODS-REAL FACTS written on the spine.So that
makes three Roswell Rods references at least. One the first
time Max goes in the UFO center, one in Missing and one in
MTD. So WHAT does it all mean????????

**StarBox**mythologist, dreamer

By StarBox

01-09-2001,
11:48 AM

Forgot to say that Dayneen - YES I think the cubist drawing in
Liz's room is very significant - it is in WAY too many shots
to be random decoration. I have not studied it long enough to
come up with any theory - but I DID notice that in LN when Liz
is looking through the window as the "code blue" her
grandmother you see her face reflected through a diamond
pattern in the glass and it looks distorted - like the face in
the painting.

**StarBox**mythologist, dreamer

By
bluecornmoon

01-09-2001,
12:38 PM

Just a couple of comments in passing...While watching Ask
Not last night, did you notice the teacher saying: "Imagine
you are the leader and your next decision may mean the end of
the world?" Although the camera was focused on Max, it was
certainly Liz who was called on to make that decision. If that
doesn't mean she is a true leader in this equation, then I
don't know what is!!

GraceKel: Bluecornmoon, according to Native American
legends, is the night when the moon is full and reflects its
blue light over the maize (corn) fields, (at the time of
Harvest), and the Great Spirit comes down to Earth to grant
the warriors who possess a pure heart, their heart's deepest
desire!). I adopted in order to register at FanForum right
after watching Leaving Normal! Right there and then, I figured
all the legends of "naceros" - visitors from far away, were
related to Grandma and the podsters (no, I didn't think of the
word at that time - it was a surprise when River Dog said it!)
LOL!

By
bluecornmoon

01-09-2001,
12:48 PM

GraceKel: How about Kyle's magazine: Byker Bussom Babes?

StarBox: First scene Morning After: the blackboard behind
Max (when Topolsky comes in), has a formula written down and
it says: AEF.

By
Roswell_Amanda

01-09-2001,
01:08 PM

My name is Amanda and I'm organizing a charity event for the
Pediatric Cancer Foundation. I've decided to organize a used
book sale. I'm starting from scratch so I'll need as much help
as I can get. If you are interested please e-mail me at
RoswellAmanda@aol.com I plan on having it in NYC but anyone in
the area is welcome to help. I live in New Jersey about 20
minutes away from the city. I think we can really get
something done if we put our minds to it! Please help if you
can.

Hey guys originally when I watched Season1 I was watching
through my SWOONING eyes as well--it was only when I put on my
SCIFI glasses that I started finding background stuff--and
when I gracekelled well the rest is history--I was like wow a
whole new show!!!!

Bluecornmoon--I love that name and thanks for sharing the
background info was very curious--and yes the Bykers Babes--I
knew there were more examples I just could not think of them.

Also the AEF--this too I also noticed and more than one
occasion they have focused only on the AFE (of the Cafe
sign-in the an example is in leaving normal when Maria is
talking to Isabel about covering for Liz notice just the AFE
shown there are more examples of this--if I would write some
of this crap down but no I don't unfortunately so its just
from memory.

Aldebaran--good one CC=Crashdown Cafe--so obvious and it
never hit me LOL.

By GraceKel

01-09-2001,
01:48 PM

Dayneen--sorry I missed your post but yes that pic in Liz's
bedroom I think is very telling of something---if you look at
it closely it almost looks like a pic of an alien figure
standing b4 this large frame of woman with long dark
hair(aahhhhh----LIZ? LOL) but I guess it is open to
interpretation--I also thought there looked like some kind of
lightening bolt thing going on in that pic too well that is
all I can think of right now.

By GraceKel

01-09-2001,
01:52 PM

Boy sorry the ideas just keep flowing to me today LOL-----I
also mentioned this about the HEATWAVE eppy a long time
ago--but I revisited my Heatwave eppy recently--the part where
Jeff Parker and Amy Deluca are talking about the Blue and Red
alien straws--and Amy says to Jeff "and this one GLOWS" she
has it in her hand--can't really see it that well but it looks
like it might be white and red squiggly straw or
something---reminded me of the dna helix strand red and white
we have been seeing---makes me think of Liz glowing in Sexual
Healing and of course the WHITE reference again.

By Reggie

01-09-2001,
01:55 PM

quote:Originally posted by sunrise:Birds have been
mentioned many times relating to Liz, eagles in particular if
I'm correct. Well, did anyone else notice the eagles on the
wall we're Liz's desk is in CW's office? Liz was right in
front when I saw them, I think there were 2. Can someone put a
cap if they have it?

In school, the teacher was talking about the Kennedy
Missile Crisis which was refering to Max and his troubles as a
leader. Well, it reminded me of the movie that's coming out
about the event (weird timing IMO) with Kevin Costner and it's
titled "13 Days" 1+3=4. Is it fact that the crises lasted 13
days? Eagles in CW's office: She was a US Congresswoman,
and the eagle is a common symbol of the US. I'm not surprised
to see it there.

The Cuban Missle Crisis: About that long, yes. But
remember, some things really are coincidences! For instance,
Qfanny has not proposed that the last Nebraska State football
game's score is a Roswell clue... but there it is: 13-2. Is
that 13 the King, and his court? The traitor, and the
patriots? The one that was raised seperately, and the ones
that grew up together? On, and on... and is that 2 for 2
shapeshifters? Does that mean that the shapeshifters are in
opposition to the podsters, or just that they are different?

You can go nuts on this sort of thing.

By GraceKel

01-09-2001,
01:57 PM

Aldebaran--nice pickup on the pilgrimage info and the
shell-very interesting indeed.

Sunrise--the movie 13 Days about the missiles of October
incident--that 1 and 3 again--and of course we go back and
forth between 1 and 3 and 1 and 4.LOL.

By Lillie

01-09-2001,
02:01 PM

I don't know if anyone mentioned this, but I re-watched
Harvest and Wipeout, and paid specific attention to Maria and
Liz handling the skin. How the skin didn't evaporate(or
whatever it does) when Maria held it, but when Liz held it, it
did. I even timed the thing to see who held it longer, and
Maria was the one who held it longer than Liz by like ten
seconds. I thought that was kind of important.

By sunrise

01-09-2001,
02:09 PM

Two thumbs up everyone! Keep up the good work, and this
without any new episodes to work with

GraceKel Thank you! You have no idea how happy and
flattered I feel by you saying that. I always feel kinda dumb
compared to some of you guys cuz I feel like I don't
contribute amazing things like say, You! I like reading what
all you have to say and I feel more confident posting some
ideas now, especially now that I've been taping the eppys
(now, if only I could get season 1 on tape )

bluecornmoon I noticed that too!! It might have been
sneaked in with reference to Max, but if you listen to what
the teach was saying you can deduct it really meant LIZ

Reggie Thanx for the feedback! I guess I just don't know
where the line between hidden clues and coincidence is lol.

Roxy

By
bluecornmoon

01-09-2001,
02:17 PM

How about the obvious: Zan and Zil?he he he he

By Alexis

01-09-2001,
03:10 PM

By Qfanny

01-09-2001,
04:58 PM

quote:Originally posted by StarBox:

2) When Max tries
to connect with GC in the hospital room - he doesnt get a
single flash from her. Instead - you see her image "Flash" as
a photo negative. Is Liz now the PRINT and GC the "negative"
that was sued to create the print??? (QFANNY - with your
background in film you could probably elaborate on that part)
Is some part of her essence - what max would have connected
with - now in Liz??? Which leads us to the next
point:

You know. I never thought of it that way. I
always thought of that flash to be what Max sees while trying
to connect. But it does not fit with the other healings does
it? Particularly if you compare it to the healings in ARCC:
The Miracle. The flashes seem to be a lot more like the flash
Liz gets from Maxcedo in MttM.

As for my background, it is in video production, (analog
really- I don't know a thing about digital editing). And video
is an electronic process. Film is a chemical process. This may
not mean much to you, but it makes a huge difference on how
something is edited and put together. Film is a better method
than video by the way, but video is less expensive and faster.
As far as doing a FX that takes the color out of the shot, or
making it a negative, it is not difficult to do at all if you
have the right equipment. A time base corrector with an
oscilliscope and a vectorscope will let you monitor the video
signal. The luma levels can be toned down, along with colors,
hues changed... Sometimes I wish I had my own editing bay
still, but alas, I like being able to pay my bills.

Off to find more questions to me.

DreamertooAs far as THE POWERS THAT BE, I do not know
who lurks on fanforum. However, the message boards provides
TPTB an almost instant gauge of response. I have heard that
they do read and PM to people on the spoilers thread, but I
cannot prove it. Emilie has a computer, Majandra has been
quoted as to being on line. ALL the actors have posted on FF
before, but I wouldn't know how often they lurk. (Nor would I
want too...)

This place is just too amusing to ignore So post with the
assumption that it could be read by anybody!

By reguru

01-09-2001,
05:18 PM

Starbox said:quote:Also about Roswell rods - in Missing
when Liz talks to Max in the UFO center storage room - you see
Max next to a folder with ROSWELL RODS-REAL FACTS written on
the spine.So that makes three Roswell Rods references at
least. One the first time Max goes in the UFO center, one in
Missing and one in MTD. So WHAT does it all
mean????????I'm not sure what it means, but, and I cannot
remember who answered my and GraceKels's original questions on
the last thread (Megageekgrl?), indicated that these supposed
Rods move extremely fast, are impossible to see by sight and
are usually just picked up on film. I really take the display
of the word 'Rods' (MTD) as being an inside joke between the
set designers and ourselves in that the RBI's pick up what
most viewers never see!! Since Rods are an actually Sci-Fi
concept, I can understand why we would see Roswell Rods / Real
Facts on the UFO book stacks in Missing or posted on a board
at the UFO Center.

By TVPooh

01-09-2001,
05:18 PM

first off-excellent job with the intro Zero! Major kudos to
you!!

second-about the importance of X-X is the Roman numeral for
10! there is our five again!

great theories everyone! I love this thread!!

By Qfanny

01-09-2001,
05:24 PM

quote:Originally posted by Dayneen:- Interesting theories
about the Sexual activity bringing out the alien essence in
Liz more. Not only did the script imply that Maria was
thinking Liz didn't look herself, but she told her "Liz, you
didn't look normal." Could that have been her true self
emerging??? And Maria also told Alex she had never seen
her like this before! That line follows this one-- only
there's a commercial break.

Along with Starbox's ideas on the flash during GC's
healing, what if Liz saw the flash- the black & white
negative in LN. Liz's the one that can see GC's astral
projection. I don't think Max is able to see her. And if Liz
has the power to astral project, it would fit that she could
first start being able to see astral projections and then
progress to being able to do it herself.quote:Originally
posted by Dayneen:I also find it very interesting that Liz
will have flashes at random, with a kiss, a touch, when things
are sexually heightened etc. Her flashes have no real
pattern.Liz does seem to get flashes with greater ease
than the rest of the podsters. Like some people have perfect
pitch (the ability to name musical notes from sound), maybe
Liz's ability to have flashes was "awakened" by Max during the
healing/reverse connection. Her ability is the same as the
others, but it is perfect. Like I can hear a sound, but
someone with perfect pitch can even name it! I do not think
that her flashes are terribly random, although, it seems that
I cannot describe an exact pattern either. In S&Bs Liz
knew that she was going to get a flash from Max when he
touched her arm. Liz is very careful not to touch Max anymore
because it seems she knows that it could trigger a flash. Or
at least that is how I see it. Even Maria is tuned into Liz's
flash pattern, based on her questions at the beginning of Ask
Not.quote:Originally posted by Dayneen:But Max who is
really an alien only gets flashes when he's healing (only time
he didn't was with Kyle), when things are Sexually intense,
and when he was afraid Kyle had Liz's journal. In fact, Max
hardly ever has flashes, where as Liz's flashes are more
frequent and at random. Also, something else, when he gets
flashes, from Liz, they are always of her childhood. Has
anyone ever addressed why they thinks this happens??? In the
Pilot, and in SH almost all the flashes he had of Liz where of
her childhood. Yes, he saw her fantasy, but we didn't see him
see this. All the flashes that we're shown to us, was of Liz
as a child. Could this mean that Liz's alien connection
started when she was a child, perhaps with GC, or maybe she
was born half alien, like many have suggested.I agree with
your thesis statement, but I disagree with your proof. Max
does get flashes. And Max did get flashes from Kyle when he
healed him. And Max explained that he does see things when
emotions are heightened in Missing. I do not know if it is
safe to assume the "seeing things" is the same as flashes, but
it would appear so. Max does get flashes, as does Michael.
Isabel probably has gotten flashes, as she tried to get one
from the Atherton's key and from Alex in SH. In Surprise, she
got flashes of Tess. I am not sure if they were true flashes,
or a mind warp from Tess or Courtney. But if there is a
pattern regarding flashes... The woman have been luck
controling them than the men. Or at least that is what it
seems to me. When Michael got the key, he was knocked over by
the flash it gave him. That does not suggest control. Max
wasn't sure if what he saw from Liz was from himself, or from
her... That indicates that Max may not be an expert in flashes
if he wasn't sure.

Okay, off to find another question to me.

By Qfanny

01-09-2001,
05:37 PM

quote:Originally posted by GraceKel:I had this whole long
post many many threads ago about the importance of Leaving
Normal eppy and Grandma Claudia and QFANNY is very upset with
me that I haven't posted it over on her archives---I am such a
procrastinator. The best is worth waiting for GraceKel!
It's never too late... [EMAIL]maxcedo@hotmail.com [/EMAIL]
when ever you are ready!

By
Metaphysicalgrl

01-09-2001,
05:51 PM

quote:Originally posted by Qfanny:[QUOTE]Originally posted
by StarBox:[b]2) When Max tries to connect with GC in
the hospital room - he doesnt get a single flash from her.
Instead - you see her image "Flash" as a photo negative. Is
Liz now the PRINT and GC the "negative" that was sued to
create the print??? (QFANNY - with your background in film you
could probably elaborate on that part) Is some part of her
essence - what max would have connected with - now in Liz???
Which leads us to the next point:

You know. I never
thought of it that way. I always thought of that flash to be
what Max sees while trying to connect. But it does not fit
with the other healings does it? Particularly if you compare
it to the healings in ARCC: The Miracle. The flashes seem to
be a lot more like the flash Liz gets from Maxcedo in MttM.

[/B][/QUOTE]

Hello. I thought I would add my two cents in here. I always
assumed that the reason Max couldn't connect with GC in that
way, is because her SOUL had already left her body. Thinking
back on the language and dialogue that was frequently thrown
back and forth on the show, I assumed that the SOUL was very
important to this equation. Max: "We looked into each other's
souls". That kind of thing.

I also always assumed that Liz got that flash from Maxcedo
because he didn't have a soul either. Ya know? I do think it's
interesting that even though Max couldn't connect with GC
because she already had left her body...he was able to provide
a connection for Liz to see her...hmmmm.

Maybe what was meant by knowing your enemies by seeing the
evil within...was really all about being able to identify the
enemies due to their lack of human souls. Hmmmm. It's
possible. I wonder if the dupes have souls?

Come to think of it...is it possible that the dupes are
really skins, planted by Nicholas in an effort to try and
persuade Max to give up the Granolith? It would make sense
that if Nicholas knew what the royal 4 looked like, he could
construct skins. I know it takes like 20 years or something
for the husks to grow, but if he had gotten a glimpse of the
destiny book with the pics of the podsters as kids and then
later on... Well, it could be possible. Maybe the other 'real'
dupes are still out there!

By the way, this just ocurred to me. How could that destiny
book have known what the podsters were going to look like 1st
as children then as teenagers. Has anyone ever questioned
that?

I'm on a tangent now... I need new material to go on! This
break between new episodes is WAY too long.

Yikes!

By Qfanny

01-09-2001,
05:54 PM

quote:Originally posted by Reggie:For instance, Qfanny has
not proposed that the last Nebraska State football game's
score is a Roswell clue... but there it is: 13-2. Is that 13
the King, and his court? The traitor, and the patriots? The
one that was raised seperately, and the ones that grew up
together? On, and on... and is that 2 for 2 shapeshifters?
Does that mean that the shapeshifters are in opposition to the
podsters, or just that they are different?

You can go nuts on this sort of thing.

I am not familiar with Nebraska State University. There is
no such thing here. I am familiar with the Huskers and the
University of Nebraska - Lincoln. And as far as watching games
go, the Bowl game this year was a huge disappointment for
Nebraska because we started the season ranked #1 and fizzed
out toward the end. I blame Solich myself.

As far as numbers go, I was born under a lucky sign in the
Roswell world. It all how you look at it.

My birthday is May 8, 1972

May = 58+1+9+7+2 = 9+9+9 = 27 and 7-2 is 5!

So it's all how you look at things, isn't it.

By 4everyoung

01-09-2001,
06:00 PM

Wow, you guys are really getting some great new insights.
Starbox I like your theory about GC, I can't add anything
just yet, but I think you are on to something.

Qfannie Starbox nice take on the sexual activity bringing
about the change in Liz. That would be very likely. As we are
all aware, our bodies do go through more than physical changes
as we become adults. There are actual chemical and electrical
changes that happen which bring about the awakening of our
sexuality. Sexual activity enhances these chemical and
electrical changes. Therefore, it would seem safe to say that
our natural changes combined with the alien changes which
would have been awakened when Max healed Liz, could most
certainly bring about a deeper awakening of her alien side.

I don't remember who said it, (there is so much I get
confused) but someone mentioned that they thought that Maria
had a lot to do with the fireball that Tess generated. I
thought that when I first saw WipeOut and after viewing again,
I still think it. It seemed that the fireball grew and then
just after the 'Rod' was crushed, it expanded - as if the
timewarp was holding it back. I got the impression from
Nicholas that he was surprised that she was able to cause it
to grow. Almost as if he knew what was suppose to happen...

Back on another thread, I posted a theory on why Nicholas
was able to withstand or make it through the fireball. I will
summarize here. According to CWW's diary, Nicholas was the one
who developed the new improved husks. I just can't believe
that being the person he is and was, that he didn't have one
or two other husks put away somewhere.

Also, I like the idea that Nicholas was put in a child's
body by Khivar because of his past relationship with Vilandra.

Great posts everyone. Keep up the good wotk.

TTFN

It was you..................Max

By Qfanny

01-09-2001,
06:16 PM

I'm going to post this instead of another flash. I think we
are all aware of the whirlwind galaxy and how Liz first saw it
in her vision.

From my scriptquote:INT. SCIENCE ROOM - DAY

The screen is filled with the stark and beautiful image of
a spiral galaxy. It's identical to the one we saw in LIz's
first flash. Pull bak to find Liz staring intently at the
picture of the galaxy on a big, pull-down astronomy chart in
the science classroom. She traces a path on the chart, with
her finger. From behind, startling her :

Mr. Seligman:You're early for detention, Ms. Parker.
That' what I call making an effort to reform.

Liz:I awas just, you know, looking...

Mr. Seligman:It's okay. I'm happy to see you talking a
renewed interest in science. Go ahead. You look like you have
a question.

Liz: (points to spiral)What's this?

Mr. Seligman:The Whirlwind Galaxy.

She flips the chart to another view of the skies.

Liz:And this is the Milky Way. Right?

Mr. Seligman:Yes

Liz:So-- how do these charts to together? I mean, where
is this galaxy in relation to the Milky Way?

Mr. Seligman:Direction in space is relative. That would
depend on where you're starting from. Now, looking at this
quadrant from Earth---

Liz:But, what if -- I mean, if you flip it around.
Let's say you were heading toward the Earth? When you passed
the Whirlwind Galaxy, what on this chart would you see next?

Mr. Seligman:Good question. Why don't you research it
and bring the answer to class? In fact, you can do that in
lieu of detention. I forgot I have a dentist appoinment this
afternoon. I was just going to leave you a note.

Liz:Mr. Seligman? One more thing. Could there be a red
star, or a red something in this area, that isn't on the
chart?

Mr. Seligman:That would have to be a red dwarf.

Liz:What's a red dwarf?

Mr. Seligman:A sun in the very last stages of its life
cycle. But, the light from a red dwarf is weak. So weak, it
usually can't be picked up by our telescopes. There's a theory
that there are red dwarf stars here. But it's never been
proven.

Liz:Well, thanks. Thanks a lot.

Mr. Seligman:May I ask what inspired this sudden
interest in astronomy?

Liz:It's so beautiful. The universe.

Mr. Seligman:It is, isn't it?

**Max arrives**

Mr. Seligman:Mr. Evans... As Ms Parker will explain,
you're off the hook. You're an excellent student, Ms
Parker. I'd hate to see anything get between you -- and the
beauty of the universe.

Max:What was that about?

Liz:Max, I have to show you this...

**But first, she has to be held by him. And feel that.**

Max:Hey. If this is detention...

**Now Liz turns toward the charts.**

Liz:Max, the things I saw, the stars, they're real, I
didn't make them up. I saw this.

Max: (cautious)Maybe you just remembered them from
seeing this chart. Or a picture in a book.

Liz: No. I mean, everyone knows the Milky Way. But, these
other things -- I swear, I've never seen them before in my
life. Max, this afternoon. I think I saw the
crash.

Well, after typing all that in, I can see why
this was edited way down, but it interesting isn't it? The
theory that there are red dwarf stars in the Whirlwind galaxy,
maybe 5 of them? And the fact Liz was trying to figure out
where Max is from proves that she is the brains of the
operation.

At the end of TEOTW, when Liz and FM are dancing does anyone
notice that when you see the scene when the camera is looking
down on them the two are in the middle of a V. Please someone
double-check that for me.Great posts.

By StarBox

01-09-2001,
06:52 PM

Metaphysical Girl - there is a similarity - although I dont
think the two symbols are directly related. I still think the
symbol on the lawn has a negative connotation (though I could
well be proven wrong).I think the Crashdown sign could
very well be realted to other symbols - in fact - the stylized
"D" looks very familiar.

Bluecornmoom - Zan and Zil - it has occurred to me before
:-)

**StarBox**mythologist, dreamer

By
alienrachel

01-09-2001,
07:23 PM

Here is a theory I have about Max/Liz. I believe that Tess is
a clone of the Queen from her own planet. It's been too long
to change that. However, I think that when Max brought liz
back to life He resurected the original spirit of his wife and
that is why they have the connnection between them. Liz is
"better" than Tess, if you will. Perhaps the world was about
to end because she never learned to use her powers and take
Tess's place. Now, it is possible to change that though.
Perhaps she will learn that she is the Queen, she'll learn to
use her powers & Max & liz can get back together
without fear that Tess may do something stupid, like leave
while the World is coming to an end! Well I doubt that
anything like this will happen, But it's nice to dream.

By
Metaphysicalgrl

01-09-2001,
07:31 PM

quote:Originally posted by StarBox:[B]Metaphysical Girl -
there is a similarity - although I dont think the two symbols
are directly related. I still think the symbol on the lawn has
a negative connotation (though I could well be proven
wrong).I think the Crashdown sign could very well be
realted to other symbols - in fact - the stylized "D" looks
very familiar.

**StarBox**mythologist, dreamer

B]

There is another symbol -- where these two shapes are
broken apart - yet each has the dot in the middle.

And also another one, where the circle is closed with the
dot in the middle.

I dunnno...I just happened across that pic of the Crashdown
sign and it kind of jumped out at me.

By GraceKel

01-09-2001,
08:10 PM

Metaphysicalgirl--your theory that Nicholas might have created
the dupes husks if you will--I think is a possibility as
well--while they are in their sewer pod chamber behind Lonnie
and Rath--shows RED SERVICES hmmmm? Also in the eppy Harvest
at the end--they kept showing that word COPY quite abit as
well. It just makes me wonder---I would have preferred they
left the possibility of another 4 podsters as completely
different myself so it could be just wishful thinking on my
part but who knows.

QFANNY--thanks for that script in the lab with Mr
Seligman-hmmmmmm the biggest clue I got from this was(and I
know you are not going to believe this)his dental apt
LOL---remember in Leaving Normal-since Star has been
commenting on Leaving Normal so much, the conversation between
Liz and Maria why would an ortho convention come to Roswell
and that comment about those TOOTH PEOPLE are going to
invade--also of course the orthodontists reaction to Liz they
seemed in awe of her, "OH HERE SHE IS" and she comes over with
a VENUS SPECIAL hmmmmm? Of course we have the VENUS tie in
again here too. Well could Mr Selegman be one of these ortho
aliens--another thing is the big WELCOME ORTHODONTISTS at the
Museum--were they friendly to the museum?

By GraceKel

01-09-2001,
08:16 PM

oh one more thing-in Into the Woods-I noticed Liz's pajamas
while talking to her dad in her room were filled with
butterflies-remember the original butterfly in the pilot-the
word change being featured throughout and of course the
butterfly representing change as well.

By
heifertipper

01-09-2001,
08:25 PM

Grace, it is so funny to watch you analyze a tape, you never
miss anything. I thought I was observant, nothing compared to
you though. I still have a whacked out idea that Liz was
probably Zan's first wife, but for some reason their love was
forbidden. Maybe she was Kavar's sister or something and he
killed her to get even with Zan and for betraying him. Maybe
Zan was then forced to marry Tess. I just think Liz was able
to somehow follow Zan to earth, after all soul mates follow
each other through different lives don't they? Maybe that is
why she sees visions and Kyle doesn't. The obvious recognition
of each other when they were eight, forshadows the idea that
they new each other before, possibly in another lifetime. Okay
enough of my weired crazed insights, I just wanted everyone to
know that if the writers for Roswell just glanced for one
second at this thread, getting a few ideas, maybe we wouldn't
have to be so worried about cancellation all the time.

Tipper

By Argo

01-09-2001,
08:29 PM

I love reading everyone's theories and ideas. Really makes you
think if the writers and set staff put all that "extra stuff"
in to get us fans thinking, or if they are just doing their
job? I have a feeling we are in for a dang good season. I hope
they don't give away too much though! We need a 3rd season!
And a 4th and a 5th...

Have a great night all!

By sunrise

01-09-2001,
08:53 PM

I just rewatched "The Sixth Sense" and it was fairly remiscent
of ARCC where Max is forced to restore the balance and in the
movie Malcolm (Bruce Willis) does the same thing. Nothing
legit to do with Liz, but it's just further proof of how much
Roswell-on-the-brain I have

Also, I was watching Buffy tonight (which I rarely do
anymore) and when I saw Spike drinking a beer my mind
immediately snapped back to Roswell (I told you ) and Blind
Date when Max gets drunk from barely drinking a sip. Well, I
suddenly remembered silverhandprint.com and in CW's diary she
talked about the skins drinking beer and not really having any
effect on them cuz they didn't have a liver. It affected Max
though and he is an alien, albeit not a skin, but if they're
from the same planet doesn't it mean they're supposed to have
the same anatomy? Unless... wait now I'm all confused can
anyone help me get untangled from this web of nonsense I just
created?

Not a thing to do with Liz, but I didn't know where else to
post it sorry

Roxy

By
LizParkerfan

01-09-2001,
08:55 PM

I don't think that the other four pods where the Dupes. I
think the other four pods where Alex, Liz, Kyle, and Maria.
Wouldn't it be a good storyline especially for them. Imagine
thinking that you were just an ordinary human in a small town,
and then to find out you are an alien hybrid. I just wanted to
point out that the only alien thing about
Max/Michael/Isabel/Tess is their blood and the powers.
Everything else about them is human (bone structure, etc.)

By fallen
princess

01-09-2001,
09:08 PM

MetaphysicalGirl: The Crashdown logo does bear a resemblance
to the symbol, especially if you look at the version they have
at roswellscripts.com. I can't post it, but it's on the right
side of the main page. It's strikingly similar to the CD logo
on the door.

By 4everyoung

01-09-2001,
09:23 PM

quote:Originally posted by sunrise:Blind Date when Max
gets drunk from barely drinking a sip. Well, I suddenly
remembered silverhandprint.com and in CW's diary she talked
about the skins drinking beer and not really having any effect
on them cuz they didn't have a liver. It affected Max though
and he is an alien, albeit not a skin, but if they're from the
same planet doesn't it mean they're supposed to have the same
anatomy? Unless... wait now I'm all confused can anyone help
me get untangled from this web of nonsense I just created?

Roxy

Maybe this will help, but I get pretty dizzy from all the
different theories and clues mysself. Here goes.First, Max
and the other podsters as hybrids with human DNA do have a
human anatomy. In M2tM, Pierce was surprised that Max had
human organs, yet his blood is not human. Second, in Surprise,
CWW says to Is, 'you belong with us, our race. We're in charge
now. Your kind doesn't rule anymore.' So they are of a
different race than the skins.

Therefore, we see that is not just a war of five different
planets, but most likely five different races, maybe more.

Does that help? :smile:

I'm coming for you.............Max

By StarBox

01-09-2001,
09:27 PM

And now - for my random Season one ramblings.And tonights
episodes are...285 South and Riverdog. Apologies if I am
repeating old theories.

1) The Crashdown symbol - dont think it is the
Lilith/Saturn symbol BUT - check this out.From 285 SOUTH -
look at the symbol inside the triangle on the door to the UFO
center - its the CD from the Crashdown.

Now - here is
the same symbol on boxes from Atherton's house - this is from
Riverdog:

So - what does it mean??? What does the CD
stand for???? Why is it in the UFO center on the door??? I am
totally clueless on this one.

2) About Topolsky karate kicking the sheriff - you dont
really see just WHAT happens to the sheriff (although it does
look more like a hit to me) BUT - here is dialouge from
Riverdog:TOPOLSKY: How long have you been following me,
sheriff?SHERIFF: A while now.TOPOLSKY: Observe
anything unusual?SHERIFF: Well, besides an FBI agent being
assigned to our local high school, yes, I have. That's a hell
of a kick you've got going. It about gave me a concussion.
It's a good thing I'm not the sensitive type.

So - are we supposed to assume that she actually DID drop
kick him??? One reference could have been bad writing but to
mention it twice just is hitting me as being WEIRD.

3) Isabel makes a big deal out of Max being able to draw
the yin/yang swirl from memory.Liz is shown the pendant
very briefly and indirectly ONCE and yet she tells Max later
"I didnt come to ask your permission (to go to the indian
reservation) if you dont give me the pendant I will just DRAW
it". So LIZ can also draw it from memory. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm I
dont know - but this comment just jumped out at me.

4) At the beginning of Blood Brothers when Max and Liz are
driving together you see a white picket fence behind Liz.

**StarBox**mythologist, dreamer

By StarBox

01-09-2001,
09:42 PM

Okay - now that I posted those picks of the "CD" inside the
triangle it is REALLY bothering me. WHAT does it mean??? WHY
is it in the UFO center and then on boxes in Athertons and WHY
does it look JUST LIKE the C and D in CrashDown. Its just too
weird. They have to be connected somehow. Anyone have any
ideas???AAARrrrrggggghhhhhhh. This is going to drive me
crazy! Atherton, the Parkers and the UFO Center linked by the
same symbol. But Why???

**StarBox**mythologist, dreamer

By sunrise

01-09-2001,
09:54 PM

quote:Originally posted by 4everyoung:Maybe this will
help, but I get pretty dizzy from all the different theories
and clues mysself. Here goes.First, Max and the other
podsters as hybrids with human DNA do have a human anatomy. In
M2tM, Pierce was surprised that Max had human organs, yet his
blood is not human. Second, in Surprise, CWW says to Is, 'you
belong with us, our race. We're in charge now. Your kind
doesn't rule anymore.' So they are of a different race than
the skins.

Therefore, we see that is not just a war of five different
planets, but most likely five different races, maybe more.

Does that help? :smile:

I'm coming for you.............Max

Thanx for clearing it up for me, I just got a flash-bulb
idea and ran with it without really stopping to think and make
sure it tied in with everything else Oh well

Roxy

By Nemo

01-09-2001,
10:33 PM

Starbox, the CD symbol at the UFO museum refers to the Civil
Defense organization which was prominent in the cold-war 50's
-- putting fallout-shelter supplies in public buildings, etc.
I think the 3-triangle symbol is theirs too. It evokes a vague
sense of dread that fits the UFO-museum atmosphere -- I see
why Milton used it so much.

By 4everyoung

01-09-2001,
10:46 PM

quote:Originally posted by sunrise:Thanx for clearing it
up for me, I just got a flash-bulb idea and ran with it
without really stopping to think and make sure it tied in with
everything else Oh well

Roxy

It's those flash-bulb ideas that often turn into deep
theories because they open avenues that have previously been
unexplored. Or they remind us of forgotten paths, theories, or
facts that suddenly fit into the puzzle.

Either way, keep'em coming.

We create our own
destiny............Max/FMax

By 4everyoung

01-09-2001,
10:54 PM

quote:Originally posted by StarBox:3) Isabel makes a big
deal out of Max being able to draw the yin/yang swirl from
memory.Liz is shown the pendant very briefly and
indirectly ONCE and yet she tells Max later "I didnt come to
ask your permission (to go to the indian reservation) if you
dont give me the pendant I will just DRAW it". So LIZ can also
draw it from memory. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm I dont know - but this
comment just jumped out at me.

**StarBox**mythologist, dreamer

Isn't there also something about Tess having a photographic
memory?? OOps, that was Topolsky who said she had a
photographic memory, but then there is the theory that Tess
and Topolsky are the same. If Max and Liz both can draw from
memory and you want to infiltrate the podsquad, you would need
someone who could mimic or have the same types of powers etc..

Just a thought...

It was you..............Max

By UpNorth

01-09-2001,
11:04 PM

quote:Originally posted by StarBox:

Doesn't this screencap look just like the one of Sheila
Hubble from the Convention? Eerie, huh!

I really wonder what the connection between the two
is.

By
bluecornmoon

01-09-2001,
11:18 PM

StarBox: Please explain the white fence theory again. I wanted
to rehash it and couldn't find it in the threads I have saved.

Atherton may have been an alien - the first room you came
in at the geodesic dome, had a skylight in the shape of the
pentagram that rung when the orbs where activated (I still
don't know if those were just foes or there were friends /
Skin deserters / others / evil aliens thrown in for good
measure).

Jeff Parker asking Max (Into the Woods): what is it about
you that makes people do what you want? still is my main
reason to believe he is a protector. Phil Evans could be one
also (same flannel shirt as Mexican guy (Tic Tac) by the
Granolith, in SH!. Mrs. Parker... you know well why she may
know her daughter is not what she appears to be (at least my
mother knows what species I am...). The only clueless in the
bunch is Mrs. Evans, who could be the human donor for Isabel!
(Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when at first we learn to
deceive.... ). So.. the Crashdown logo may just mean: home to
aliens!

UFO Center: could Milton have been a Skin who was recalled
until his new skin was harvested... and poor thing, is dust
now?

Can't think of another reason why they share the same
logo... <sigh> just trying to help!

By Nemo

01-09-2001,
11:25 PM

Is this another Sheila Hubble sighting? (besides the crowd
scene at the crash festival in the Pilot, about when the
countdown gets to 2)

By GraceKel

01-09-2001,
11:27 PM

Tipper nice for you to visit us on this thread-you should come
in more often.

Starbox glad to see you enjoying your season1 tapes
LOL---now in 285S did you see Planet WUU outside the crashdown
when they left to get in jeep? And did you notice that Liz
says how scary it would be not to know your own history blah
blah--and at least my mother knows what species I am--Nemo
pointed out these two sentences--is it Liz that truly doesn't
know her own history here?he!he!

Did you notice in RIverdog over the mantle those pics man
and woman with all those symbols on it including the 4 square
symbol? Did you notice Liz symbolically peeling out of the pod
in Athertons basement when she peels the paper away?

By GraceKel

01-09-2001,
11:31 PM

well Nemo are you asking if it is the same person? Or just
someone symbollically similar? I would say similar but no she
is not the same as the SH in the car with the wind blowing
through her hair or the girl at the crash festival
either-no---similar yes but not the same.

By GraceKel

01-09-2001,
11:39 PM

Bluecornmoon I hope you don't mind me answering this
question---in Summer of 47 eppy--Hal Carver says to Richard
Doty "don't worry Richie you are still going to get your wife,
your WHITE PICKET FENCE, and your backyard barbecue. Also in
this episode the nurse who mysteriously disappears name is
Yvonne White. Oh backyard barbecue(another bb word LOL-just
thought of that one). Since then we have seen White Picket
fences near Liz on many different episodes. And Max changes
the Red Roses to White. I hope that helps.

By
shapeshifter

01-10-2001,
12:16 AM

quote:Originally posted by GraceKel:Welcome Dreamertoo to
this thread, I have to tell you I just love your name LOL!!!

Well guys I must tell you its so funny watching you all
talk about things that we talked to death as the original
episodes aired LOL!!!! Right Zero? Shapeshifter? LOL!!!! ...
Picturing us standing around with the healing stones glowing,
conjuring up new theories and new posters to present them

By Zero

01-10-2001,
12:48 AM

Hi All!

I just wanted to THANK everyone who has said nice things
about the Intro! I is a labor of love!

The picture of the symbols made me think - isn't it unusual
that not one of the symbols repeats? I'm not decoder, but I
find that very unusual.

Everyone has been floating some great thoughts, I wish I
wasn't so busy at work. My mind is drained, and I can't think
what I was going to comment on now. Grace Kel - I did listen
for the clicking at the end of MITC, but didn't really hear
much, so my sound must not have recorded well! I like th idea
of Niko being trapped in a boys body due to past behavior - I
guess Khivar as some sense of humor if that is true.

Well - off to sleep! But first - talk about Roswell on the
brain - I got our tickets to the local IMAX theater (get them
automatically as a member of our local Science Center), and
the new movie is "Solar Max"! One guess what my first thoughts
were??

Zero I Shall Believe!

By Dayneen

01-10-2001,
06:00 AM

Starbox - In LN when I Gracekel Max's flashes of GC I also
found that there was a flash of a dark room and what appeared
to be a door with a white light behind it. The image goes
really fast even in GraceKel mode, so I had to keep
Gracekelling until I completely caught the image. I think that
this was the door to the "otherside" and that somehow Max was
able to connect with GC soul and bring her back to say
goodbye. Maybe he was able to bring her back from that point,
the point of no return, because of his connection to Liz or
because of GC's possible connection to him and his race. I
also found it interesting that GC immediately knew that the
dark-headed guy sitting next to her bed side was Max. Now this
could've been because of the numerous possible connections the
Parkers (Liz & GC) could have to Max or it could be
because she was ghost, and ghost know everything - right

Qfanny - I have to disagree with your theory about Max not
seeing GC in the hospital room. When she called out to Liz
saying "Honeybear," Max looked up, and continued to look in
the direction of GC until her and Liz's conversation was over.
Now maybe Max was watching Liz and could only hear GC, but I
got the impression that he could see her too. I'm still
debating your theory on the men not being able to control
their flashes and the women can control their flashes. Need to
think on it a little more. However, I do think that Isabel's
visions in Surprise where a mindwarp of some kind from Tess.
Like Max said, they get flashes when things are intense and
things were certainly not intense, it was her b-day party.
Then it was the way the visions would hit her. Though similiar
to the way Michael was effected when he touched the key to
Atherton's home, it was somehow different. It appeared that
the visions just came to her at any given moment. Maybe the
reason why the mindwarp was projected this way was because
Tess was hurt and panicking. Now why couldn't she send a
mindwarp to CWW to save herself, is beyond me?? Well I take
that back, unless CWW ranned her off the road (her car was
wrecked and the airbag had came out) and she was knocked out,
therefore CWW was able to take control. Who knows??!!

GraceKel - You can add me to the list of persons who have
spotted the WUU flag in Missing. Very interesting. It does
remind me of the letters on Max's forehead in the destiny
book. What does it all mean??? (WUu)

BTW,Starbox, Qfanny, & GraceKel thank you all for your
responses to my questions about the flashes and the drawing on
Liz's wall. It's hard to get a really good picture of it (the
drawing) to do a more extensive investigation of it.

By Dayneen

01-10-2001,
06:01 AM

By StarBox

01-10-2001,
06:35 AM

Nemo - so do you think the Civil Defense logo only refers to
the bomb/shelter supplies (and that is also why it is in
Atherton's secret study) - and in that case - is the stylized
C and D in Crashdown just a reference to this symbol (which
was probably prevelent when they coverted Pete's bar to the
Crashdown cafe) - or do you think there is another conection
between Atherton/Milton(Brody??) and the Parkers?

BluCornMoon - Youa re RIGHT! Athertons ceiling and door
window look just like the beeper. Also - the windows in the
front of the house look like the beeper when it was first
lighting up. (Both symbols also look similar to the three
triangle symbol in the UFO center as well). Also - the
beeper has only gone off in MIchael's presence - and he is the
one that had flashes of Atherton's. I dont know what it
means - my gut feeling is that Atherton was not a good guy -
but I could easily be wrong.

UpNorth - Yes - that scene is VERY similar to Sheila
Hubble. Add in the white picket fence image and you have a
visual connection to th events of the 47 crash AND to Sheila
Hubble.

GraceKel - I did notice the "my mom knows what species I
am" line. Also - the pictures above the mantle - wonder if
they could be Adam and Eve? The thing I noticed about the
banner outside of the crashdown is that the bottom looked like
the bottom of it looked like the Granolith "M" or
"W".***Warning*** Warning*** Wild Unsubstatioated Theory
FolLows******WHAT if the granolith is from the dying red
star planet (thats why Nikolas said it was on their WorldS) -
it was something they all shared somehow. The planet of the
granolith could be the planet WUU. GC (and possibly her
husband) could have been sent with the granolith (like Adam
and Eve) to earth. That would explain why the Crashdown has
the mural of the THREE Ufo's and the Picture of the Granolith
mountain with the UFO. Also - why its murals have things like
DNA strands and GLOWY ALIENS painted in them.

**StarBox**mythologist, dreamer

By Lillie

01-10-2001,
07:39 AM

Heifertipper, I totally agree with you, about Liz being Zan's
first wife. But if Liz was his first wife, and Kivar's sister,
wouldn't that make her a skin, or half a skin?? Tess may have
been his bride, but she was definately not his wife, with what
he feels for Liz he couldn't ever love her. A lot of
people talk about Venus concerning Liz, but what about Aries
constellation, does ANYONE know tidbits about it????

By Alexis

01-10-2001,
07:50 AM

Qfanny—I disagree that Max didn’t see GC. When she says
“Honeybear” he looks up. Anyone can see an astral projection
if they are open enough to it. Max is since he saw GC and Liz.

In terms of the ease of flashes for the females with powers
as opposed to the males, I agree. Like I said before, the
abilities of the females is psychic in nature—meaning it has
to do with their/others minds. Seeing flashes is an example of
this. Michael and Max do have flashes, but like you said,
Qfanny, they are unsure or can’t control it.

It appears that Liz is able to control these flashes better
or with more calm.

Metaphyicalgirl—although I think that GC still had a soul,
Max couldn’t connect like he could with Liz because what he
saw showed that GC was going to die. That is why Max said “I’m
sorry.” I think it meant more than “I’m sorry I can’t help you
say goodbye.” But also “I’m sorry, she’s not going to make
it.”

I also like the idea that K’var put Nicholas in a child’s
body because he knew about Vilandra’s secret meetings with him
and wanted to make sure that wouldn’t happen again.

Zero—why none of the symbols repeat: I think it is because
each symbol represents a place. Since each place is different
there would be no symbols that are the same.

By StarBox

01-10-2001,
08:02 AM

quote:Originally posted by Alexis:

Zero—why none of the symbols repeat: I think it is because
each symbol represents a place. Since each place is different
there would be no symbols that are the same.

[/B]

Although the kids seemed to assume it was a map last season
- I also think it is possible that it could be their history.
SF posted some interesting theories about this on the signs
and symbols board - and the picture in the middle does look
alot like a crash.

**StarBox**mythologist, dreamer

By
LizParkerfan

01-10-2001,
08:19 AM

I have this feeling that Khivar isn't a skin. He might be an
alien turned bad. The skins seem to latch on to anybody with
potential power. And maybe Vilandra is not Isabel, it could be
Liz, and Liz could have been Khivar's sister. I could see
Khivar using his own sister to gain power. I think CWW and
Nicholas assumed that Isabel was Vilandra. I don't think they
really know for sure. The whole Vilandra story is like a myth
that could have been twisted around or CWW and Nicholas told
Isabel wrong. There might have been another reason why
Nicholas recognized Isabel.

And remember in Max in the City, Rath said that back home
the people hate Khivar. Maybe the reason the people hate
Khivar is because he turned on them.

Anyways, I was wondering what Topolsky meant in Crazy when
she said to Sheriff Valenti, "You're protecting those kids
too, aren't you". Could Topolsky have known about the
shapeshifters being protectors? And what exactly did Topolsky
see before she joined the special unit that got her so
scared?

By
Metaphysicalgrl

01-10-2001,
09:24 AM

quote:Originally posted by StarBox:And now - for my random
Season one ramblings.And tonights episodes are...285 South
and Riverdog. Apologies if I am repeating old theories.

1) The Crashdown symbol - dont think it is the
Lilith/Saturn symbol BUT - check this out.From 285 SOUTH -
look at the symbol inside the triangle on the door to the UFO
center - its the CD from the Crashdown.

Now - here is
the same symbol on boxes from Atherton's house - this is from
Riverdog:

So - what does it mean??? What does the CD
stand for???? Why is it in the UFO center on the door??? I am
totally clueless on this one.

*Stands up and applauds*. You are TRULY amazing. What a
good catch!! That really is very suspect!!! You know how the
skins had the Universal Friendship League...well maybe the
pods race had a similar kind of organization, with the
CrashDown being the focal point or meeting place -- kind of
like the UFL building in Harvest (does anyone know what the
word "Robertson" means on the front of that building?) Maybe
there is an army of the pods race on earth waiting for the
Royal 4 to mature.

quote:Originally posted by StarBox:3) Isabel makes a
big deal out of Max being able to draw the yin/yang swirl from
memory. Liz is shown the pendant very briefly and indirectly
ONCE and yet she tells Max later "I didnt come to ask your
permission (to go to the indian reservation) if you dont give
me the pendant I will just DRAW it". So LIZ can also draw it
from memory. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm I dont know - but this comment
just jumped out at me.Max drew the symbol BEFORE he saw
Iz's Pendant. He drew it completely from memory...of having
'known' of it from somewhere else. Liz saw the pendant before
she made that comment she would draw it if she had to.

I'm still reeling over that latest CD find. Amazing. You
have quite the eye for details!

By
Metaphysicalgrl

01-10-2001,
09:35 AM

quote:Originally posted by Alexis:

[b]Metaphyicalgirl—although I think that GC still had a
soul, Max couldn’t connect like he could with Liz because what
he saw showed that GC was going to die. That is why Max said
“I’m sorry.” I think it meant more than “I’m sorry I can’t
help you say goodbye.” But also “I’m sorry, she’s not going to
make it.”

[/B]

I agree - except for the part about GC soul being IN her
body. She definitely STILL had a soul, I just don't think it
was in her body anymore! Max definitely was able to see GC
when she was saying good-bye to Liz. You can see him look up,
and you can see him watching them. Max HEARD GC tell Liz to
follow her heart...how sweet, right?

By Alexis

01-10-2001,
09:54 AM

Starbox—I think we both could be right. Maybe when we look at
the map it is only the last symbol in the string of symbols
that are locations and the rest are what lead up to these
being the locations.

Last symbol in string of symbol on left looks like
Granolith doesn’t it?

I think Michael’s knowledge of what this is is correct
(i.e. “It’s a map.”). He sometimes just knows. Since he was
the 2nd in command, a military man at heart, he most likely
would be the navigator for the group to get home. That is why
he would be the one to figure it out and not Max. Kings don’t
get into that much detail.

Burgundy on the Dreamer thread made a good point that I
wanted to mention and bring up for discussion. Burgundy said
that JK said that everyone’s powers reflect something in their
personality. Tess’s main power is to show people something
that is not there. So that would translate to mean that Tess
isn’t who she appears to be (Which is what Max says in TLV
“She isn’t what she appears to be.”).

With that, what do you think Liz’s powers would be? To see
the evil within? To only communicate with Max? To warn others
of danger (like she did with Max)?

By StarBox

01-10-2001,
10:03 AM

quote:Originally posted by Metaphysicalgrl:I'm still
reeling over that latest CD find. Amazing. You have quite the
eye for details![/B]

LOL! Well you deserve alot of credit too - if you had not
posted the CrashDown logo - I KNOW the CD logo on the door
would not have jumped out at me. And the boxes is
Atherton's house - I had saved that screencap weeks ago
because I actually thought it remeinded me of the UFL logo -
you cant see the CD very well on the boxes without the UFO
center sign as a guide.

Your thoughts on what it means are very interesting to me -
I think that the three very well could be linked. Even though
"CD" is a civil defense logo - it could have a deeper meaning
in the Roswell Universe. After all - the ROYAL CROWN soda
machine in the UFO Center is obviously a reference to the
royals. Could it be that the UFO Center/Crashdown/Atherton's
book were all "covers" - attempts to make the crash seem like
a fringe "campy" "joke" - all the while hiding the REAL
aliens........ GraceKel - I know you have quotes to this
effect from Blind Date I think - about hiding in the
obvious???

**StarBox**mythologist, dreamer

By sunrise

01-10-2001,
10:06 AM

Can someone tell me what WUU means?

Also, I was re-reading the first book of the Roswell High
series and this time I was searching for symbols or things
that have been discussed here and throughout the book I kept
seeing the number 5 a couple of times in relation to Liz. I
also saw horse too. I thought it was interesting that this
things not only show multiple times on the show, but were also
in the first book which if I'm not mistaken was the only one
read by Jason Katims. Is he borrowing these things? I'd say
so.

Roxy

By MicMac

01-10-2001,
11:20 AM

I'm not sure this means anything but someone said on one of
the other threads that the dates work out that Shelia Hubble
was born in 1947.

Interesting...

By
Metaphysicalgrl

01-10-2001,
11:26 AM

quote:Originally posted by StarBox:LOL! Well you deserve
alot of credit too - if you had not posted the CrashDown logo
- I KNOW the CD logo on the door would not have jumped out at
me. And the boxes is Atherton's house - I had saved that
screencap weeks ago because I actually thought it remeinded me
of the UFL logo - you cant see the CD very well on the boxes
without the UFO center sign as a guide.

**StarBox**mythologist, dreamer

LOL. It's a mutual admiration society over here! I still
think that the CrashDown logo looks too much like some of the
alien symbols to have no bearing on things. Hmmmm. *scratches
head and wonders*

I do have a question though. I re-watched part of harvest,
and I noticed that when the camera was on the building of the
UFL league -- they panned upwards, stopping to focus on the
word Robertson. Because of the camera angle and how it was
shot, I find it hard to believe it doesn't mean anything. What
does Robertson have to do with the UFL? I checked Whitakers
diary and Betty Osario's notes, and couldn't find any
reference that made sense... I think it could mean something.
I'm not sure what, though.

Anyhow...does "Robertson" mean anything to any of you guys?
Sorry if this has been discussed before.

{~}:}

By Alexis

01-10-2001,
11:54 AM

Just reread CW Diary—she says that learning the language is
difficult, but at least they can communicate with eachother.
What do you think that means? Telepathy?

CW also says that it will be difficult to recognize the
royal four. Maybe this means that Tess is Vilandra and not
Isabel?

Another thing is when CW mentions that she could smell Max
Evans on Liz the day she met both of them. Does that mean that
Max’s scent or essence is permanently on Liz? They hadn’t seen
eachother in 3 months and CW could smell his scent on Liz.
Does anyone remember if he touched her?

By azcat

01-10-2001,
01:29 PM

Okay all you crazy cats -

can someone tell me, did CW say in Surprise that she had
killed Nasedo?

if not ....

maybe Courtney did it. Remember in AN, when Tess says, the
killer could be very close, or something, it immediately cuts
to the scene of Courtney's disgusting face-lift. Maybe
Courtney did it. Why? Dunno. But someone who knows, please get
back to me re CW and Nasedo.

Thanks!

By jupiterV

01-10-2001,
01:46 PM

quote:Originally posted by azcat:Okay all you crazy cats -

can someone tell me, did CW say in Surprise that she had
killed Nasedo?

if not ....

maybe Courtney did it. Remember in AN, when Tess says, the
killer could be very close, or something, it immediately cuts
to the scene of Courtney's disgusting face-lift. Maybe
Courtney did it. Why? Dunno. But someone who knows, please get
back to me re CW and Nasedo.

Thanks!

I'm almost positive that at silverhandprint.com in the
congresswoman's diary it says that she killed Nasedo, and that
site is supposed to be approved by the WB. Just to let you
know!

By jeary

01-10-2001,
02:04 PM

Request: I am really curious to read the infamous CW diary.
But have not found it yet. Can someone please help me?

(I am at work and I don't want to start on a huge project
yet).

Thanks

By Alexis

01-10-2001,
02:33 PM

quote:Originally posted by jeary:Request: I am really
curious to read the infamous CW diary. But have not found it
yet. Can someone please help me?

(I am at work and I don't want to start on a huge project
yet).

Thanksgo to www.silverhandprint.com and click on left
hand side symbol. Go to bottom of page and the arrows will
guide you to all the pages.

By
kristine888

01-10-2001,
02:42 PM

I know we have really hashed out the whole "Betrayer Tess"
theory, but after re-watching Ask Not on Monday, it raised
some questions. CWW was very interested in Max's previous
"love", and then learned that her name is Tess. Why would she
be searching for the bride, if the betrayer was Izzy? If the
betrayer was the sister, wouldn't she be searching for the
sister?

Also, several weeks ago in Jason Katim's chat, he stated
that the name of the planet would be revealed "next week" on
silverhandprint.com I still haven't seen anything. Is anything
there?

By Alexis

01-10-2001,
02:52 PM

quote:Originally posted by kristine888:I know we have
really hashed out the whole "Betrayer Tess" theory, but after
re-watching Ask Not on Monday, it raised some questions. CWW
was very interested in Max's previous "love", and then learned
that her name is Tess. Why would she be searching for the
bride, if the betrayer was Izzy? If the betrayer was the
sister, wouldn't she be searching for the sister?

Also, several weeks ago in Jason Katim's chat, he stated
that the name of the planet would be revealed "next week" on
silverhandprint.com I still haven't seen anything. Is anything
there?

In CW diary she says that maybe the two (bride and sister)
were switched. That is why she suspects Tess. You would think
that she would have checked out Isabel first, though.

As for the name of the planet nothing that I know of has
come out.

By jeary

01-10-2001,
03:37 PM

ok, 2nd time leaving the message. Not sure what happened the
1st time.

Request: how do I get to the CW diary. I am really curious
to read it but can't find it. Thanks, for your help.

By
kristine888

01-10-2001,
04:00 PM

quote:Originally posted by jeary:ok, 2nd time leaving the
message. Not sure what happened the 1st time.

Request: how do I get to the CW diary. I am really curious
to read it but can't find it. Thanks, for your help.

Go to www.silverhandprint.com Then click on the
triangle symbol at the top left side of the page. The other
symbols will get you into Betty Osario's notebook, some
autopsy photos, and interviews with the cast "in character"

By jeary

01-10-2001,
05:28 PM

Alexis & Kristine, thanks for the link. My computer
had decided to go on strike and forgot to let me know what the
demands were. Have a good night.

By
shapeshifter

01-10-2001,
06:03 PM

quote:Originally posted by azcat:Okay all you crazy cats -

can someone tell me, did CW say in Surprise that she had
killed Nasedo?

if not ....

maybe Courtney did it. Remember in AN, when Tess says, the
killer could be very close, or something, it immediately cuts
to the scene of Courtney's disgusting face-lift. Maybe
Courtney did it. Why? Dunno. But someone who knows, please get
back to me re CW and Nasedo.

Thanks!If you read
http://www.silverhandprint.com/ufl/24.html , it indicates that
CW did kill Harding. But the writer of silverhandprint doesn't
seem to be anymore troubled by consistancy than any of the
other writers.

By Qfanny

01-10-2001,
06:21 PM

Here's some more stuff from Sexual Healing: I hope it's not
too boring~~~

quote:INT. MAX'S ROOM - NIGHT

Max, Isabel, Michael deep in conversation. Isabel does her
nails, using her powers to file and try different colors,
while they argue.

Max:She said it was as if she was inside the ship.
Looking out. When it came crashing toward Earth.

Isabel:Now you have to tell us. If you don't, I'll set
your hair on fire.

Max:I feel sorry for both of you.

(Michael, frustrated that Isabel won't take it seriously.)

Michael:Max. If it is real. If there's a chance it's
real. You owe it to us. To do some more research. And in the
meantime, I'll pursue... my own avenues.

(On Isabel. Trying to be blase, do her nails, not give in
to the suddenly lonely awareness, that she's the one in the
room without a partner. With a smile, a "joke".

Isabel:Don't look at me. I don't have any
avenues.

So what did you think of this one? Pretty
interesting twist. For one, the scene is in Max's room, not
Michael's apartment. For two, Isabel has dreamed walked Liz,
and probably others we don't know about too. Third, Isabel
does like to keep her nails neat with her powers. That and set
fire to things. Is Isabel the new fire starter? (Oh, maybe
that's how CW got Is and Tess confused. Tess is the
firestarter.)

Anyway, for those that said Max saw GC, you are probably
right. He probably did see something. I do not think that GC
was an astral projection anymore because she had a voice. Liz
has no voice when she astral projects. So, did was see GC's
bodiless soul?? What was it? Her spirit? How was she able to
speak. Was she getting help from Max?

By StarBox

01-10-2001,
06:32 PM

QFanny - I LOVE the stuff from the script. Keep sharing :-)
Can you post the descriptions of the Liz childhood flashes???
I'd love to see how it describes them.

Great comments about CW - I havent responded because -
honestly - I dont know WHAT to make of her - its all so
confusing! And the diary doesnt help things at all - it raises
so many questions about her past. I do think she was working
with Courtney - why would she need the granolith because her
skin was dying if she was going to get a new husk at
harvest-time.

**StarBox**mythologist, dreamer

By candyapple

01-10-2001,
06:58 PM

quote:Originally posted by Alexis:Just reread CW Diary—she
says that learning the language is difficult, but at least
they can communicate with eachother. What do you think that
means? Telepathy?

CW also says that it will be difficult to recognize the
royal four. Maybe this means that Tess is Vilandra and not
Isabel?

Another thing is when CW mentions that she could smell Max
Evans on Liz the day she met both of them. Does that mean that
Max’s scent or essence is permanently on Liz? They hadn’t seen
eachother in 3 months and CW could smell his scent on Liz.
Does anyone remember if he touched her?

I noticed this too and thought it was a strange thing for
CW to say. It must mean that Max's essence or scent is somehow
embedded in Liz--because they hadn't seen each other all
summer. Of course this makes you wonder if Kyle now has Max's
scent embedded in him as well.

But I think the reason that Liz has Max all over her is due
to the combination of the reverse connection and the fact that
he healed her.

By
heifertipper

01-10-2001,
07:41 PM

quote:Originally posted by Lillie:Heifertipper, I totally
agree with you, about Liz being Zan's first wife. But if Liz
was his first wife, and Kivar's sister, wouldn't that make her
a skin, or half a skin?? Tess may have been his bride, but she
was definately not his wife, with what he feels for Liz he
couldn't ever love her. A lot of people talk about Venus
concerning Liz, but what about Aries constellation, does
ANYONE know tidbits about it????I think that Kavar is the
same species as the podsters, but they went about adapting to
earth differently. Kavar sent his people with skins and Zan
and company were cloned.Tipper

By Reggie

01-10-2001,
07:42 PM

quote:Originally posted by StarBox:Okay - now that I
posted those picks of the "CD" inside the triangle it is
REALLY bothering me. WHAT does it mean??? WHY is it in the UFO
center and then on boxes in Athertons and WHY does it look
JUST LIKE the C and D in CrashDown. Its just too weird. They
have to be connected somehow. Anyone have any
ideas???AAARrrrrggggghhhhhhh. This is going to drive me
crazy! Atherton, the Parkers and the UFO Center linked by the
same symbol. But Why???

**StarBox**mythologist, dreamerOK. I may be showing
my age, but the triangle/circle/CD logo is for the Civil
Defense administration. Their big thing was bomb shelters and
fallout shelters. Notice that the Museum is underground (you
come in off the street, and go down steps, right?). It
qualifies as a Fallout Shelter; you'll see a logo with
alternating black and yellow equilateral triangles near the
door of many public buildings with basements. It also says
"Fallout Shelter", hint hint. Walk around your city hall,
court house, school, or church: odds are, you'll see them
yourself.

Fallout shelters are intended to house folks for some time,
so they are stocked with water and long-time storable food.
Military rations are ideal for this sort of thing, of course.
If one were going to set up a hiding place, using retired CD
or military supplies would be a good idea. That's probably
what Atherton did. By the way, back then, geodesic domes were
all the rage in certain circles; so for Atherton to have one
is typical, not strange.

As for the CD logo at the CrashDown, the letters fit
together to look like a flying saucer. It's a cute logo, not a
clue.

By Dayneen

01-10-2001,
07:51 PM

This probably has been already addressed, but I want to ask
anyway.

Did anyone else notice in LN that GC's room number was 104.
1+0+4=5 Also, in Monsters, before Izzy dreamwalks Maria, you
can see her clock and it says 3:12. Well, in MITC that same
time pops up again on Maria's clock when she agrees to meet
Liz at the fountain.

By
bluecornmoon

01-10-2001,
07:59 PM

Dayneen: And the FBI agent's room number at the Tumbleweeds
Motel was 104 too! There are many instances when those numbers
are repeated in RoswellWorld!

GraceKel: thank you for the white fence explanation. I'm
aware of that but I was wondering: Does that mean that Liz
wants a normal life as opposed to the one she would have with
Max? What is the consensus?

LizParkerFan: K'var isn't a Skin. Skins are only those
Twilonians who have given their allegiance to K'var and didn't
have the technology to adapt human DNA to their own make-up
and had to wear husks. They are probably the same race. They
are most definitely the same species!

MetaphysicalGrl: It was only after Grandma Claudia said her
goodbyes to Liz, under Max's watchful eyes, that the beep
flatlined. She was alive during the dialogue! BTW, astral
projections can speak. Liz couldn't because this was her first
time. Give her a bit of practice and experience and the girl
will talk up a storm!

By Nemo

01-10-2001,
08:08 PM

quote:Originally posted by StarBox:Nemo...

[1] do you think the Civil Defense logo only refers to the
bomb/shelter supplies....

[2] is the stylized C and D in Crashdown just a reference
to this symbol (which was probably prevalent when they
converted Pete's bar to the Crashdown cafe)....

[3] do you think there is another connection between
Atherton/Milton(Brody??) and the Parkers? 3) Not that I can
see any hint of.

2) I don't think the Crashdown CD is meant to refer to the
Civil Defense one (either by the cafe founders or by the
writers). But I think the letters CD may have further
significance -- what it may be, I don't have a good clue yet.
There seem to be more CD's about than just these two -- I
think GraceKel once listed these plus some more, but I don't
remember them all. She thought something might be up with that
(if I remember right), and I tend to agree.

1) No. Besides the general mystification about 'CD' just
mentioned, the 3-triangle fallout-shelter symbol serves
another purpose. For Milton, it ratchets up the museum's air
of tension another notch. For the writers, it does the same
thing for the larger story: it connects frightful ideas
(sudden attack, nuclear holocaust, radioactivity hazards) with
the number 3.

Compare the Y-shaped fallout-shelter symbol, and especially
the radioactivity symbol (Y with a central dot) with the Zia
sun symbol (+ with a central dot). This now being the symbol
for the State of New Mexico, you see it in Whitaker's office
and more often at the sheriff's -- on his pen-holder or desk
sign, also on the building and its doors in ITW -- note the
similar placement of the symbol on this building with its
3-fold counterparts flanking the museum doors. The arrangement
is strikingly similar except for the 3 sectors instead of 4.
Now, that sun symbol is said to reflect the Zia belief that
the gods sent good things into this world in fours. The
contrast seems to be hinting that there is terrible danger
when one of the four is missing.

By StarBox

01-10-2001,
08:13 PM

Fallout shelters are intended to house folks for some
time, so they are stocked with water and long-time storable
food. Military rations are ideal for this sort of thing, of
course. If one were going to set up a hiding place, using
retired CD or military supplies would be a good idea. That's
probably what Atherton did. By the way, back then, geodesic
domes were all the rage in certain circles; so for Atherton to
have one is typical, not strange.

*******************Except that Atherton disappared/was
killed in 58 - WAY before the age of the geodesic dome as a
"vouge" hippie housing option.

Nemo beat you to the Civil Defense logo explanation a few
pages back - but the fact that it is repeating symbol is still
significant. It could well be just a reference to the actual
Civil Defense Org - but - it could also tie the characters
together. Set designers use visual clues and repitition to
create a map for the subconcious - we know we FEEL like
certian things are linked - but we dont know WHY uless - of
course - we GraceKel things :-). Its the same way a good
composer uses a theatrical score - the repitition of themes
and movemennts creates an emotional landscape that the viewer
responds to on a subconcious level.I think that for the
set designers to use any symbol (or number) repetedly - it is
probably a clue. After all - this is a telivision show - not
real life. They get to CHOOSE what signs and symbols go where
- as opposed to the random placement of such signs in real
life. And - again - set designers are professional artists
that take their jobs very seriously. To dismiss the work
and thought that they put into small details as being just
random bits of nothingness is like visiting an art museum
blindfolded. Everything you see on the set was PUT there. And
with a good set designer- it was put there on purpose. Listen
to a set designer/art director talk about their work someday -
they will BLOW you away. I would bet money that even our
obsessive selves are not picking up on 1/4th of what they put
in.

**StarBox**mythologist, dreamer

By aldebaran

01-10-2001,
08:14 PM

Nemo - The info you gave in your response to (1) was extremely
interesting. Makes my mind go back to the whole premise of
EOTW - the world goes to crap when there are only three, there
is danger in three, etc. Thanks for the info!

By Qfanny

01-10-2001,
08:20 PM

quote:Originally posted by bluecornmoon:Does that mean
that Liz wants a normal life as opposed to the one she would
have with Max? What is the consensus?Oh, can I put my
Fanny in here?

Anyway, I do think Liz wants a normal life. She tells
Topolsky, you've got to have a plan. She plans things! But
Topolosky tells her to "take things as they come." Her life is
not suppose to be Normal. And I think that is what Leaving
Normal is all about.

Also, I was watching Pilot, again: hehehe! But Liz says,
"For the first time I was really seeing Max Evans, I saw me as
he saw me, and the amazing thing was, in his eyes, I was
beautiful."

She sees Max Evans for the first time because she
understands just how important her presense is to Max. Max may
not understand. Liz may think it's love-crush. But she sees
Max Evans because she sees him as he sees her... Does this
makes sense. It's like Max is a mirror for Liz. He literally
becomes the glass as Liz sees her reflection, her importance
in his mind. And we she did see herself, she saw Max Evans.

Wow!quote:Originally posted by
bluecornmoon:MetaphysicalGrl: It was only after Grandma
Claudia said her goodbyes to Liz, under Max's watchful eyes,
that the beep flatlined. She was alive during the dialogue!
BTW, astral projections can speak. Liz couldn't because this
was her first time. Give her a bit of practice and experience
and the girl will talk up a storm! That's right! GC was
alive until the projection ended. I thought that astral
projections had no voice, but maybe after practice you can
develop one. This would indicate the GC may have been altered
too wouldn't it?

By
heifertipper

01-10-2001,
08:21 PM

Okay something has been bugging me for awhile, sorry if this
has already been discussed. When congresswoman Whitacker
tricks Liz into revealing Tess's name in "Ask Not" why does
she assume that Tess is Vilandra? Vilandra is suppose to be
Zan's sister right? So why would Whitacker think that the
person who stole Liz's boyfriend away would also be his
sister? They were obviously discussing a person who took away
Liz's boyfriend in the contex that now Tess and Max would be
together. Vilandra would never go after her brother, at least
I hope not. It's absurd to think that Whitacker would believe
that Tess was Vilandra. And how did Whitacker find Tess, she
only had a first name and that isn't much to go on. To many
holes in the story.Tipper

By Nemo

01-10-2001,
08:29 PM

quote:Originally posted by StarBox:Nemo beat you to the
Civil Defense logo explanation a few pages back....

I see -- Nobody beat me. He would, of course.

~Nemo [= Nobody (in Latin)]

By
Metaphysicalgrl

01-10-2001,
08:35 PM

quote:Originally posted by
bluecornmoon:

MetaphysicalGrl: It was only after
Grandma Claudia said her goodbyes to Liz, under Max's watchful
eyes, that the beep flatlined. She was alive during the
dialogue! BTW, astral projections can speak. Liz couldn't
because this was her first time. Give her a bit of practice
and experience and the girl will talk up a storm!

I completely agree. GC didn't die until after she said
goodbye. What I'm saying is that her spirit -soul- energy
-astral body, whatever you want to call it was not inside her
physical body when Max tried to connect with her. It doesn't
mean that she was dead..it just meant she wasn't home, so to
speak. As a believer in all things metaphysical ( hence the
name )...well, this really isn't a stretch for me and I agree
that astral projections can speak, and I'm sure Liz will be
talking up a storm in no time!

My original point, I think, had something to do with human
souls...but now I'm so confused, who knows where I was going
with that.

I will say this though, I'm a HUGE fan of GC and I really
feel that there is more to her story then we know yet. I just
hope they remember to go back and sow the seeds they planted
in LN.

Woo Hoo GC !!!!!!!!!

By Nemo

01-10-2001,
08:56 PM

aldebaran, thanks for the compliment. There's more of that
sort of thing on Rosta's Signs and Symbols thread (if you
haven't been there already).
http://bbs.fanforum.com/Forum3/HTML/000381.html

By StarBox

01-10-2001,
08:57 PM

quote:Originally posted by Nemo:

2) I don't think the Crashdown CD is meant to refer to the
Civil Defense one (either by the cafe founders or by the
writers). But I think the letters CD may have further
significance -- what it may be, I don't have a good clue yet.
There seem to be more CD's about than just these two -- I
think GraceKel once listed these plus some more, but I don't
remember them all. She thought something might be up with that
(if I remember right), and I tend to agree.[/B]

I suppose it could be as simple as the fact that C and D
correspond to 3 and 4. Thanks for the info and response
Nemo - Lack of new Roswell episodes always makes me start to
speculate a bit too
much.:-)**StarBox**mythologist, dreamer

By Zara

01-10-2001,
08:58 PM

As I said in an early post on this thread I have concerns that
Twilo may no longer exist at all. Reggie asked me to explain
this and how I perceived the summit in MITC in light of this.
I've been thinking about it for a couple of days, so here
goes.

The reason I wonder if Twilo is still out there is because
its galaxy (Whirlwind) is so far away. (on the order of
millions if not billions of light years away) Putting aside
the fact that we'd never be able to see a single star explode
in a galaxy that far away, if we could see the explosion it
would take millions of years for the light to travel to us. So
any visual news is old news. "Long ago, in a galaxy far, far
away…"

The main travel problem is that the distance between Earth
and the V make travel by spacecraft impossible unless of
course, there was a worm hole, which is one of the implied
functions of the granolith - a kind of portable worm hole. We
also know from EOTW it can be manipulated for time travel as
well.

The fact that our story probably includes both a recurring
time line (loop) AND time travel (jump) only complicates
things.

Now for the summit. We know more about Nicholas than any of
the others at the table, and we know from CW's diary and from
his own inferences that Nicholas has been stuck on this planet
looking for the royal four since at least February 1, 1950 so
he and the (other) skins can "get to the granolith and go
home." (CW diary, page 1) Nicholas and the skins have no
capability for physical travel to and from their home planet.
Larek and the timecard dude at the summit (according to Rath,
for what that's worth) are aliens using human bodies as their
hosts because it's too far to travel physically to the summit.
It's not clear whether the other folks at the table traveled
to the summit from the V or are also exiled to Earth like
Nicholas, the dupes and the skins. For all we really know, the
summit may have been a room full of exiled aliens who were
simply trying to get Max to lead them to the granolith so they
could get home. It's possible that the ones in host bodies may
have only traveled from another location on Earth. Pardon the
use of a recurring theme, but people at the summit aren't
exactly laying all their cards on the table. I get the
impression everyone there knows a little bit but is keeping
quiet out of fear and self-protection (not unlike Max, btw.)
What if what they know and what they are representing at the
table is the story (read MYTHOLOGY) of the V and their belief
in their own part of the story rather than the physical place
itself? An ancient mythology? Granolith as grail, etc…

By Zara

01-10-2001,
09:00 PM

Another thing:

One lightbulb insight I've had this week pondering space
travel in the story has been that if Rath was telling the
truth (for once) there are beings who travel by mind rather
than body. Can Khivar? Perhaps not, since Nicholas was
representing him at the summit. Nicholas can't travel by mind
or he'd be home by now. Likewise the lesser skins. Harding the
shapeshifter couldn't do it, and if we explore our podsters
and their friends: Tess, though she can start a fire and make
you see something unreal, has shown no signs of travel;
Michael says he was born to fly but hasn't shown any skill for
it yet; Isabel can dream travel to someone fairly nearby who's
sleeping or unconscious; BUT --- Sweet little LIZ traveled a
couple thousand miles to New York City to guide Max out of the
way of the falling platform. Look who's flying now! And look
ma, no granolith! Or better yet, look! I'm THE granolith!

My head hurts - I'm going to bed.

By
shapeshifter

01-10-2001,
09:00 PM

quote:Originally posted by heifertipper:Okay something has
been bugging me for awhile, sorry if this has already been
discussed. When congresswoman Whitacker tricks Liz into
revealing Tess's name in "Ask Not" why does she assume that
Tess is Vilandra? Vilandra is suppose to be Zan's sister
right? So why would Whitacker think that the person who stole
Liz's boyfriend away would also be his sister? They were
obviously discussing a person who took away Liz's boyfriend in
the contex that now Tess and Max would be together. Vilandra
would never go after her brother, at least I hope not. It's
absurd to think that Whitacker would believe that Tess was
Vilandra. And how did Whitacker find Tess, she only had a
first name and that isn't much to go on. To many holes in the
story.Tipper

Thank you for bringing this up Tipper; it's been bugging me
too. I keep thinking of possible explanations, but they all
fall flat. Like: Maybe Vilandra stole someone's True Love in
the past life. And maybe Whittaker assumes the sister/bro
thing wouldn't necessarily carry over into this life. In the
journal she 'writes:'

Maybe the reference to the Queen
reversing roles is supposed to be interpreted as the sister
becoming the lover (ick). I also thought CW's obvious
depression over the loss of her lover didn't fit with this
journal entry. I guess we are supposed to accept that she is
mourning the loss of the 'real Daniel' who was obviously
'replaced' by Harding (thanks, apparently, to Michael, as we
witnessed).quote:Originally posted by
starbox:...Except that Atherton disappared/was killed in
58 - WAY before the age of the geodesic dome as a "vouge"
hippie housing option.Good point!! Even as a former hippie
dome dweller, I hadn't thought of that.

By
Metaphysicalgrl

01-10-2001,
09:06 PM

quote:That's right! GC was alive until the projection
ended. I thought that astral projections had no voice, but
maybe after practice you can develop one. This would indicate
the GC may have been altered too wouldn't it?

Not neccesarily. Astral projection is something that humans
are capable of. Since I know how all of you are a bunch of
SPONGES when it comes to info...I got you the following on Out
Of Body Experiences (OBE's or Astral Projection). Enjoy.

By 4everyoung

01-10-2001,
09:14 PM

quote:Originally posted by bluecornmoon:LizParkerFan:
K'var isn't a Skin. Skins are only those Twilonians who have
given their allegiance to K'var and didn't have the technology
to adapt human DNA to their own make-up and had to wear husks.
They are probably the same race. They are most definitely the
same species!

Same species yes, but -- In Surprise, Whitaker says to
Isabel "You belong with us, our race. We're in charge now.
Your 'kind' doesn't rule anymore." This sounds to me as if
the podsters are of one race and Khivar and the skins are of
another race. What do you think??

It was you.......Max

By sunrise

01-10-2001,
09:23 PM

quote:Originally posted by Zara:Another thing:

One lightbulb insight I've had this week pondering space
travel in the story has been that if Rath was telling the
truth (for once) there are beings who travel by mind rather
than body. Can Khivar? Perhaps not, since Nicholas was
representing him at the summit. Nicholas can't travel by mind
or he'd be home by now. Likewise the lesser skins. Harding the
shapeshifter couldn't do it, and if we explore our podsters
and their friends: Tess, though she can start a fire and make
you see something unreal, has shown no signs of travel;
Michael says he was born to fly but hasn't shown any skill for
it yet; Isabel can dream travel to someone fairly nearby who's
sleeping or unconscious; BUT --- Sweet little LIZ traveled a
couple thousand miles to New York City to guide Max out of the
way of the falling platform. Look who's flying now! And look
ma, no granolith! Or better yet, look! I'm THE granolith!

My head hurts - I'm going to bed.

OMG This occured to me seconds before I read your post!
Could it be possible that our Liz might end up more powerful
than the podsters themselves?

Roxy

By StarBox

01-10-2001,
09:38 PM

Zara - excellent point about Liz being able to "travel". That
had not occured to me.

Metaphysical - loved your thought on Liz's powers being a
sign of her "humanness". I think there is alot of
credibility to the theories that Liz needs to change/evolve.
You see it repeated alot in the early episodes.Here is one
passage the struck me tonight - from Balance:

VOICEOVER: I've always been the one who comes through in
the time of crisis. I do what's necessary, and I don't panic.
But seeing Michael so sick and having no way of knowing what
was wrong or how to help made me scared. Scared that one day
something could happen to Max and I wouldn't know how to help
this person who means so much to me, who means everything.

Now - after Liz CHANGES - in MITC Max IS in a similar
position and Liz DOES know how to help him after all. In fact
- she is the ONLY one that can help him. Nice touch (although
I am sure it was a coincidence) to have the "Youre Everything"
song playimg right afterwards :-)

I noticed the descendants sticker and the hand-holding
poster :-) - you all are brilliant to pick up on all the
details.

**StarBox**mythologist, dreamer

By 4everyoung

01-10-2001,
09:41 PM

Metaphysicalgirl Thanks for the info on the OBE's. Sounds
scary and yet fun. Anyone here ever have an OBE??

Given that OBE's are a somewhat common occurance with
human's, I would agree that being able to astral project is
not the special power, but the fact that Liz was able to
connect to Max is. So Liz's human powers have been enhanced.
Isn't that sortof what Nasedo was saying about the podsters
when he was explaining how they get their powers? someone.. I
don't quite remember exactly what he said..

It was you..............Max

By Nemo

01-10-2001,
09:42 PM

quote:Originally posted by StarBox:I suppose it [the
significance of C/D] could be as simple as the fact that C and
D correspond to 3 and 4.That makes as much sense as
anything I know of so far.

By Qfanny

01-10-2001,
10:07 PM

quote:Originally posted by 4everyoung:Same species yes,
but -- In Surprise, Whitaker says to Isabel "You belong with
us, our race. We're in charge now. Your 'kind' doesn't rule
anymore." This sounds to me as if the podsters are of one
race and Khivar and the skins are of another race. What do you
think??

It was you.......Max

There are small minded ppl today that insist that
blacks, Asians, Native Americans, and whites are all different
races! But everyone knows that we are the same species. If the
writers meant species, they would have said it IMHO....

Could this mean that the Twilonese are in the middle of a
RACE war? That would put a whole different spin on the
Alien/Human coupling if war broke out because of failure to
accept one another's differences.

By
shapeshifter

01-10-2001,
10:56 PM

Qfanny, As you mentioned just over on the Politics Thread: We
know from Brody's Possessor that Max was "trying to do too
much too soon," and that sounds a lot like accusations against
people like MLK and other civil rights leaders in this country
in the 60s, and so Max could have been a civil rights leader
for the different races. My science fiction mind is thinking
of Brave New World's Alphas & Epsilons (which reminds me
of Lonnie's Brave New World Comment). But what I really
wanted to bring up was my old fav theory that there are
conflicting factions (think Demos & Repubs), one of which
has a Destiny that involves mating with humans to put an end
to the Twilonese race war, and the other faction of which has
a Destiny like Tess' book--which does, after all, have a bit
of a Hitlerian Master Race twist to it. And now I too
shall follow suit (being Maxcedo's other alter ego ) and drag
this over to the Politics thread.

By Zero

01-10-2001,
11:13 PM

My - I go to meetings all day (literally), and come back to 3
new pages! You all are amazing!! I guess I have some reading
to do!

Zero I Shall Believe!

By 4everyoung

01-10-2001,
11:37 PM

Qfannie - I am sorry if I offended you or anyone else by my
post reference to species and races. However, I based my reply
on the definitions given to these words from three different
dictionaries from three different decades. There is no
question that humans are all of the same species, but we are
not talking purely humans. According to the dictionaries,
within all species are the possibilities of different races.
Species = a fundamental category of taxonomic classification
(a classification of organisms in an ordered system that
indicates natural relationships) ranking below a genus and
consisting of organisms capable of interbreeding. Race = a
population of organisms differing from others of the same
species in the frequency of hereditary traits.

I have been pondering a theory that the humans and aliens
are related in someway. We have had hints of ancient
connections. Thus it is highly possible that the humans and
the aliens are of the same species - organisms capable of
interbreeding. However, the comment in question from CW
clearly indicates that the royal 4 and the skins are of
differing populations or, as she says, races.

This does sound very much like a race war.

Hope this cleared up any misunderstandings.

It was you.......Max

By Burgundy

01-10-2001,
11:46 PM

Hello Liz Mythers! I don't usually post on this thread (though
I occasionally lurk), but sunrise told me that I should post
the thoughts I had posted on the Dreamer thread b/c they
seemed to relate. Here goes:

***I just put some pieces together and suddenly came
across this idea. I'll try to be clear here: Ok, in the wb
chat, Jason Katims said that each of the characters' powers'
reflects their own personality and things about them. In the
end of season 1, we learned that Tess can "show people things
that aren't really there." Does this perhaps imply that that's
what Tess is doing with Max--showing him a Destiny that
doesn't really, concretely exist (look at how Michael and
Isabel don't seem to care about their "destiny")? Perhaps she
is deluding herself into believing that Max could "come
around;" I'm just thinking about the implications for her
personality. Does this sound remotely possible or am I just
reaching here?

I also noticed something on the Friendshippers' thread
(BTW, you all should visit it sometime if you're a fan of Ros'
friendships; it's a nice thread). Anyways, Aphid mentioned
that perhaps the changed humans (Liz and Kyle) need an alien
to help them use the powers they developed, like how Isabel
helped Liz contact Max in MITC. Does this involve potential
time between M&L developing Liz's powers? Hmmm...***

I was just wondering your thoughts on this.Goodnight
all!Burgundy

By
shapeshifter

01-10-2001,
11:59 PM

quote:Originally posted by 4everyoung:...I have been
pondering a theory that the humans and aliens are related in
someway. We have had hints of ancient connections. Thus it is
highly possible that the humans and the aliens are of the same
species - organisms capable of interbreeding. ...This goes
along with one of my other fav theories: that the aliens were
from Earth, but they've come back from the future. The
different 'races' are then owing to the distance between the
planet colonies.

By Scully

01-11-2001,
02:27 AM

Hi everyone! well, I've just finished reading the 9 pages of
this thread (I'd like to read the ones previous if i ever have
the time) and would like to say how amazed I am at your
talents! A few thoughts, although I know I had more to
comment on that I've forgotten :dazed:already.As for
Liz being the 5th element: I like this theory and it really
seems to work. Is there more posts previously that would back
this up?Tess: don't like her, no matter how nice she is
around Kyle. which is another thing to think about: the way
she's been with Kyle since the very beginning...And it may
just be coincidence, but have you ever noticed how Michael and
Isabel have light hair and how Max and Liz have dark, and that
Tess, doesn't have dark hair? If we were to think about
matching as far as who looks good together (at least the way
we thought when we were kids), then Max and Tess wouldn't be a
match. Maybe tie this into the Tess pic with absense of
shading bit? Well those are my thoughts for now, but I'll
be back to lurk, if not to add my thoughts, later. Happy
Roswell watching all, until next time!Scully

By Alexis

01-11-2001,
06:16 AM

quote:Originally posted by 4everyoung:[b]Metaphysicalgirl
Thanks for the info on the OBE's. Sounds scary and yet fun.
Anyone here ever have an OBE??

It was you..............Max

I have actually had a few OBE’s in my life. People in their
pubescent years are more open to this sort of thing. When I
was 13 I was extremely psychic! One night, when I was about to
go to sleep (but I WASN’T asleep) I felt a mental pull that
led me to shut my eyes abruptly. Suddenly I was standing in
the room of a classmate of mine. He lived about 4 blocks from
me, but I had never been in his house, let alone his room. I
saw the way his room was laid out, what he wore to bed and the
color of his bed spread. Just as abruptly as my eyes had
closed, so did they open. The next morning I had a friend of
mine ask him some questions to learn that he did wear sweats
to bed, he did have a desk in his room near the door and he
did have a red, white and blue bedspread!!

The second time I OBE’d was during my 8th grade physical
science class. Things were completely normal for me as I
walked into my class. I went straight to my seat and began
balancing my chair on two legs. Again my eyes shut tight. Just
as I was closing my eyes, I noticed my teacher see me do this.
I astral projected into a classroom on down the hall and
around the corner. This same friend of mine was there (we had
an intense psychic connection—evidenced by us wearing the same
colors at least 3 times a week at the time). He was wearing
all white (I hadn’t seen him yet for that day) and was sitting
next to my friend, Margie. He was joking with her and they
were kicking eachother playfully under the table. I remember
him laughing a lot. Margie accidentally got a little dirt on
his white pants and he said “Ah, no, my pants are dirty.”
Flick! My eyes were open again and I was in my science class.
My teacher was staring at me. He knew that something
paranormal had happened. He never questioned me about it but
he looked at me strangely for the rest of the day! Later that
day I saw Margie and asked if she noticed Sal laughing a lot
in class. Her response was “Yeah, it was pretty funny. We were
playing around and I got his white pants all dirty.”

So those are two of the times I OBE’d. Anyone else?

[/B][/QUOTE]

By aldebaran

01-11-2001,
06:28 AM

Zara - WOW! I was blown away by your ! I knew that Liz was
somehow strongly connected to the granolith (just from EOTW),
but the possibility that she is the granolith just seemed to
far OT before I read what you wrote.....starbox, I like the
idea that Liz may be more powerful than the podsters. She has
already displayed a variety of "powers" in the form of
leadership skills, connections with the podsters AND actual
powers. I think that is something that we haven't seen in the
others (except maybe Max, which would lead me to believe that
Liz really is the queen and an equal to the king Max).Nemo
- thanks for the link. I can't wait to check it out!

By Lillie

01-11-2001,
07:29 AM

I love the idea of Liz being the fifth element, and it would
work to, if she was Max's wife. I always keep thinking
back to "Balance", with Liz coming into the circle and she
didn't even drink the water. How could she have connected,
unless it was a connection unknown to her, one that has been
in her forever, but she just hasn't known.

By fallen
princess

01-11-2001,
07:38 AM

Alexis-Wow! That sounds so cool!

I'm loving all the talk about LN, by the way. I know there
was a lot of theorizing over the summer involving GC, etc. LN
is by far one of my favorite episodes and I have long been
wishing for them to tie up the loose end with GC. Some people
believe that she was nothing more than a dying relative
through whom Max and Liz grew closer, but I tend to believe
she lends more to the Mythology than may meet the eye.

As for the race/species thing back on P-SAWN (oops, CHAD
reference...do you guys call the home planet Twilo? Fuzzy
memory), would it be stupid to suggest that perhaps the
'races' were the people from each planet? They might be
different 'races' as we see here, with distinct hereditary
traits. CWW said to Isabel, "You had a great love. For him you
betrayed your brother, your race." Or something like that. Was
it QFanny that first suggested the idea of the war being
started because of unwillingness to accept people who are
different from themselves? I like this theory a lot,
especially because of the Podsters' bonding & interaction
with the humans. About Max being like MLK with trying to do
too much too soon, I think it's entirely plausible. Max is
just that kind of person who would try to eliminate racism
(planetism??) ASAP in one swipe. Crusader like MLK or Abraham
Lincoln.

By SQUEAKER

01-11-2001,
08:20 AM

Sorry I know off Topic~Hi everyone Here is a
campaigning idea going on at Ros 2...

"The 3rd Annual TV Guide Awards will be taking place on FOX
this March. Roswell and the cast have been overlooked...again
!

In the current issues of TV Guide is an Official Ballot for
submitting your choices in the categories listed. Our idea is
to cross out the choices given in a certain category and
write-in your Roswell choice under that category. (For
example: Actor Of The Year In A Drama Series - Jason Behr,
Roswell; Drama Series Of The Year- Roswell; etc) The
categories that apply to Roswell are: Drama Series of the
Year; Actor of the Year in a Drama Series; Actress of the Year
in a Drama Series; Supporting Actor of the Year in a Drama
Series; Supporting Actress of the Year in a Drama Series.

But also be sure to vote in all other categories so the
ballot will be considered valid. According to the rules for
submission, mail-in ballots must be postmarked by 1/24/01 and
received by 1/29/01. So we don't have much time...let's get
out and buy those TV Guides!! PS~internet does not allow you
to put in your own choice."

Thanks for your time. PM Maxwhipped if you have any
questions.

By
bluecornmoon

01-11-2001,
08:43 AM

Candyapple: I think Max Evans' scent is all over Liz (and Kyle
most certainly does not have it at all) not because of the
healing or the reverse connection but because of the love the
two of them share. Because no matter how long or how far they
are separated, their souls are entwined and sealed together
for eternity. Max's love covers her and she accepts it in
every cell of her body. That's why, nothing else!

StarBox: Oh, I resent that you say we have not picked up
1/4th of the signs and symbols the art directors have left for
us to pick up! If they have and we haven't, then they must be
geniuses!

Zara: I, too, thought for a while that Twilo vanished in
the explosion of the red star! It may still happen but.. I
think it's still standing. The temporaries were being
possessed by beings in Twilo in "real time". They couldn't
travel because of the incredible distances, hence the
possession. One of the reasons why the Skins may be here may
be the possibility of taking this planet over. If their sun is
red, it's on its way out and they must know it! BTW, given
enough time and the right equipment, yes we could see the
light of a star that far away exploding! We recently received
light from a quasar 155 million light years away! That's
farther than the Whirlpool Galaxy (a/k/a Whirlwind) really is!

You said: " The fact that our story probably includes both
a recurring time line (loop) AND time travel (jump) only
complicates things." No, it doesn't. Nobody in Twilo has the
technology to time travel. Only the Guardian of the Granolith
WILL have it, after Liz and Serena discover how to use its
power to create a tear in time-space (string theory anybody?).
As we know, Max is the Guardian and "Worker" of the Granolith,
but he will only be able to do it when the key, Liz, is there.
So…. since they can't time travel and distance is incredible,
Twilo is still standing and populated by many!

Also, we know that CW and Nicholas have been here, stuck on
Earth, punished is you will, because they have not found the
Royal Four. But we don't know that they literally are stuck.
K'var may have dropped them ("Next Stop: Earth!) and brought
the ship back home. When they have the Royal Four, all they'll
have to do is phone home and ask for transportation. They
can't yet because it's only now, on May 14th, 2000, that they
found the podsters. Vanessa saying we need the Granolith to go
home was not because they'll get in, punch some numbers in
some keyboard and puff! Twilo!. They don't know how to use it.
They can't use. The Granolith is their ticket home because
K'var will pick them up, nothing else! The other Ambassadors
are not stuck here, they were supposedly "representing" their
planets (I don't think so - they were clearly K'var's minions,
including Larek, who may not be the real Larek), and were
surprised by the information imparted by Nicholas, because
they thought the Granolith was with K'var and that behavior
would only be possible if they lived over there, not on Earth!

As for K'var, the Skins, CW, Nicholas and the race issue:
There are five planets (I think the fifth one is Earth so we
won't discuss that one - we know what we are - LOL!). The
other four planets are within traveling distance from each
other! They probably import/export things back and forth! They
have the same rulers, so they must. If they do, they must be
the same species (probably the most advanced colonized the
other 3). Save the obvious changes that happen in Nature
because of distances (think of the differences in animal
population between Australia, Madagascar with the rest of the
"joined" continents), they are very similar. I thought the
differences were in the type of rule: K'var was a democrat and
Max was monarchy (which should have been outdated really).
That was probably K'var's ticket to power. However, the little
Hitler-in-disguise got a taste of power and became a despot!
They fell from the pan into the fire! Other than that, there
is no difference except that one may have curly hair and be
lighter of skin and the other one straight hair with darker
tones (or their equivalent!).

However, I so agree with you about Liz and her powers. She
will travel beyond the stars. I don't think she is the
Granolith. I think Max is the Guardian, the only one who can
work it but he can only work it when all parts of the equation
are present. He is one. Liz is the other. Period. Nobody else.

I agree with 4everyoung (Hi Marji!) I don't think her
special power is the ability for astral projection. Maybe we
won't see her do that again. I do believe that she will
develop powers in direct relation to what Max needs. Her
powers are a projection, an extra arm that depends on its
growth on where he is or what he is doing at the time. Astral
projection is an ability that we all, apparently, have within
us. She just enhanced that part in order to help Max. That is
her real power. Just wait and see!! I love that girl!

By
LizParkerfan

01-11-2001,
08:49 AM

Evidence does point out that Khivar maybe a skin, but I just
got this feeling that he is a shapeshifter turned bad.
Remember in Max in the City Larek/Brody said that Max wasn't
ready to take the throne. Maybe Khivar was originally suppose
to take the throne since Max wasn't ready, but Max took the
throne anyway. So Khivar gets even with Max for taking
something that was suppose to be his.

CWW probably knows that Khivar is shapeshifter, but has
accepted him as one of them since he helped them out.

By Lillie

01-11-2001,
09:09 AM

I don't think that Kivar is a shapeshifter or a skin. Maybe he
was a Podster, knew Max and everyone, but he hated them. I
kind of like the idea that Liz was Kivar's sister, and Max's
wife. And that she died or was murdered (by Tess???!!!), and
that Kivar wanted revenge and got it by taking the throne and
getting involved with Isabel.

By sunrise

01-11-2001,
09:15 AM

I get what's being said about OBE's, but someone who OBEs
doesn't mean to do it. When Liz astral projected didn't she
have in mind what she had/wanted to do and where she needed to
go? When someone has a OBE I've never heard of them wanting to
do it, never mind where they go, do they?

Roxy

By
Metaphysicalgrl

01-11-2001,
09:44 AM

quote:Originally posted by bluecornmoon:

Zara: I, too,
thought for a while that Twilo vanished in the explosion of
the red star! It may still happen but.. I think it's still
standing. The temporaries were being possessed by beings in
Twilo in "real time". They couldn't travel because of the
incredible distances, hence the possession. One of the reasons
why the Skins may be here may be the possibility of taking
this planet over.

Good morning Mythers! Here's my two cents on the Skins
being on Earth theory.

In Harvest, they referred to Max as the once and FUTURE
king. If Khivar is the 'leader' of the skins race, faction, or
whatever you want to call it, and got on the throne by killing
Max and the Royal 4, it would make a whole ton of sense that
if he found out the Royal 4's essences were sent to earth to
be reborn -- well, if I were him I sure as hell would send
some soldiers down to that little blue ball to make sure they
didn't live long enough to come back to Twilo! I think THAT is
why the skins are on earth. Not to take over planet Earth --
but to find the Royals and kill them, thus preventing any
chance of them getting back to Twilo and re-claiming their
rightful positions. Yes? Any takers on this theory? I think we
have enough evidence to support that one...

{~}:}

By
Metaphysicalgrl

01-11-2001,
10:14 AM

quote:Originally posted by bluecornmoon:

Zara: You
said: " The fact that our story probably includes both a
recurring time line (loop) AND time travel (jump) only
complicates things." No, it doesn't. Nobody in Twilo has the
technology to time travel.

But don't forget to factor into any of these theories the
fact that "time exists in multiple subsets" on Planet Twilo.
The fact that time exists differently for them - changes
everything. When thinking about time and space, they might
have a different perspective, or point of reference then we
do.

For example, in our world, the discoveries of modern
physics necessitated profound changes of concepts in things
like space, time, matter, object, cause and effect, etc. Since
these concepts are so basic to our way of experiencing the
world,once we were forced to look at the world through the
different eyes of modern science, it was a shock, and we were
forced to question how these new things effected the way we
experienced our world. The old world view we used to have,
based on Newton's mechanical model of the universe, led us to
look at space and time as seperate entities, time was measured
in a linear sense, etc. With the advances in modern science,
we are coming to know this is not really the case.

My point is, if I even have a point, is that we are trying
to make "our" ideas about space/travel/time and whatnot apply
to Twilo and the other planets in their solar system. If time
exists differently on their planet, and we know it does, then
all of our theories about all of that stuff would be null and
void. They have a different point of reference then we do -
thereby changing the framework for measurement of such things.

Basically, we can't apply our laws to their planet because
our fundamental scientific laws are different then theirs.
Humans can't exists in multiple time subsets...we disappear.
So, can we really accurately say what they are capable of in
regards to time travel, space travel and such? I don't think
so.

But hey, it's still fun to theorize!

{~}:}

By StarBox

01-11-2001,
10:21 AM

quote:Originally posted by bluecornmoon:

Also, we know that CW and Nicholas have been here, stuck on
Earth, punished is you will, because they have not found the
Royal Four. But we don't know that they literally are stuck.
K'var may have dropped them ("Next Stop: Earth!) and brought
the ship back home. When they have the Royal Four, all they'll
have to do is phone home and ask for transportation. They
can't yet because it's only now, on May 14th, 2000, that they
found the podsters. Vanessa saying we need the Granolith to go
home was not because they'll get in, punch some numbers in
some keyboard and puff! Twilo!. They don't know how to use it.
They can't use. The Granolith is their ticket home because
K'var will pick them up, nothing else![/B]

I agree with you BlueCornMoon - this is the same
impression I got from the Nikolas/Lonnie exchange. Great post.

About the race question. The was has been referred to
numerous times as a REVOLUTION - not a civil war - which I
think leads to the idea that the factions were more different
politically than racially.

Also - what do you all think the shapeshifters are?? Are
they a seperate species? Or are they like some type of "battle
droid" - engineered to obey commands without free will/souls.

Metaphysical - yes - I totally agree with your skins on
earth theory.

Sunrise - one other thing about Liz's "astral projection"
is that she somehow KNEW just where to go. I think this
enhances the theory that her "powers" are directly linked to
Max.

**StarBox**mythologist, dreamer

By Alexis

01-11-2001,
10:21 AM

fallen princess—I am glad someone thinks it is I would imagine
that most everyone on this board is and scratching their
heads! But I believe that everyone has these abilities. That
is why I love that the writers made the Pod Squad’s abilities
human.

sunrise—You are right, at least in my case, it wasn’t
something I decided to do. However, if you believe you have
the ability and can focus you can do it. Some people
(including myself) have used their “third eye” for a
particular purpose. I used mine to find a pair of earrings for
my sister.

Metaphysicalgirl—I agree that although Kivar wants the
Granolith (more power) he also wants to insure his rule.
Therefore, he wants Max and the other Royals killed (as is
evidenced in MITC).

By
Metaphysicalgrl

01-11-2001,
10:24 AM

quote:Originally posted by Lillie:I don't think that Kivar
is a shapeshifter or a skin.

One last thing...Shapeshifters. Let's discuss.

I, for one, don't think that 'shapeshifters' are
necessarily their 'own' race back home on Twilo. I think that
the ability to 'shapeshift' is a 'power' that an alien has on
our planet...when their essense has not been mixed with human
DNA.

In other words, Nacedo is a straight out, 100%, glowing
alien, right? None of the others are... Skins - nope, Royal 4
- nope,ruined leaders of the other 4 planets - nope. So,
how do we know that this isn't just something that an alien
can do on planet earth? It would make sense that Nacedo,
TicTac...whatever, are the same 'race' as the royal 4, but
they are 100% alien.

Now, if Max's 'race' can survive on planet earth without
the help of a husk or some other alien life form
technology...why did they choose to mix the alien essence with
the human dna, in order for the royal 4 to be reborn?

Hmmmmmmm

{~}:} A myther in desperate need of new episodes

By
Metaphysicalgrl

01-11-2001,
10:30 AM

quote:Originally posted by Alexis:[b]fallen princess—I am
glad someone thinks it is I would imagine that most everyone
on this board is and scratching their heads! But I believe
that everyone has these abilities. That is why I love that the
writers made the Pod Squad’s abilities human. [/B]

I think it's awesome too. Psychic abilities are so
interesting and fascinating. Thanks for stepping forth and
sharing your stories! You must be an advanced human too -
capable of easily accessing your sixth sense! Can you astral
project into the offices of TPTB and see what they have in
mind for the future? Maybe you can subliminally influence them
to come on over to this board and take a look at our ideas!
Maybe then they would tie up some of these loose ends for
us...

By
Metaphysicalgrl

01-11-2001,
10:33 AM

quote:Originally posted by sunrise:I get what's being said
about OBE's, but someone who OBEs doesn't mean to do it. When
Liz astral projected didn't she have in mind what she
had/wanted to do and where she needed to go? When someone has
a OBE I've never heard of them wanting to do it, never mind
where they go, do they?

Roxy

Hey Roxy...there is a whole movement called 'Remote
Viewing' that is rumored to be used by our government for
spying and whatnot, that is based on the theory of people
being able to astral project at will.

OK, I know that sounds crazy but type in Remote Viewing
into your web browser, and see what you find. It's really
interesting stuff!

{~}:}

By fallen
princess

01-11-2001,
11:13 AM

About Liz's astral projection and the questions surrounding
it, I too subscribe to the theory that Liz's powers are linked
directly to Max.

Okay, I just got this ridiculous thought, and it's pretty
implausible but it's fun to think about. When Ava got that
look and was talking about if Max brought Liz back, she was
changed...what if she was saying this not because it was the
act of healing a dying person that changed her but because she
somehow knew that the person Max would bring back would have
powers? Let's say Liz's shooting was a planned attempted
assassination, whether time travel was involved or not. If Ava
knew about it, it'd explain the way something clicked as she
found out that Max had healed her. Okay, so I don't really buy
it, but like I said, it's sure fun to think about.

By Dayneen

01-11-2001,
11:21 AM

Metaphysicalgrl - I agree. The skins are definitely here to
kill the Royal 4 and get the Granilith. According to the
script at www.roswellscripts.com , originally the writers
where going to have the podsters here because they wanted to
stop their enemies from taking over Earth, but decided to
scratch that idea. Several of the aliens from CWW to the dupes
have stated how much they hate Earth and want to go home, so I
doubt that any of them (Skins) are here to take over.

Also, I think that Kivar and possibly the other aliens back
on Twilo do have the technology to do round trip space
travel,without the granilith. In CWW diary she states "Even
without the Royal 4 we're stuck here until we recover the
Granilith. And just to make sure we didn't give up, our trip
here was a one way ticket." To me that saying they can or do
have a ship that can come to Earth and go back to Twilo, but
to make sure the mission was accomplished here on Earth, Kivar
made sure there would be no way back.

I love the theories about Max being somewhat like an MLK on
Twilo. It makes sense. Though war often stems from someone's
need to obtain power, it often stems from race, and religious
issues, and people not wanting change, and of course change is
something we've heard a lot about these two seasons.

I believe somebody speculated back on one of the previous
threads about CWW being married before marrying Mr. Whitaker,
well in her diary there's proof that she was. The part is
black out, but here's what she says. "At least I know this way
he didn't feel any pain, I'm the one who gets to remember the
look in his eyes when his own wife killed him." Check out the
actual page below, you can read through the black ink.

By
bluecornmoon

01-11-2001,
11:35 AM

Metaphysical Girl: Cut scene from Mom-O-Gram in Destiny: ...
so learn your powers my son and how to vanquish the evil ones,
so that you may save Earth and then come to save us"... or
something to that effect!

Now, as for time shifts: Courtney said they live in
Pacific, Mountain, Central and Eastern time. We certainly
don't understand that but it seemed to me that, whatever it
is, they live in time shifts that are close to each other (One
hour difference shifts that do not extend more than maybe a
sun cycle - or day!). What you are talking about is more than
that and I don't think it's possible, mainly because Physics
is Physics is Physics is Physics and the Laws of Nature are
Universal! They do not change, whether we are in the Milky Way
or Whirlwind Galaxy or M-100! We all experience gravity, we
all probably share the same chemical elements (give or take a
couple), and let's not forget that the same shapes tend to
repeat themselves in Nature, so, as much as Sci-Fi is
wonderful, you cannot go to far from what we know before it
becomes incredible and what is most fun in Roswell is that we
believe because it's close to reality. So, please, let's not
get farfetched here! Time and space work the same way
everywhere! Again, let's think string theory here and the Laws
of Relativity! Space bends with relation to Time the same way
everywhere in the known Universe!

If we were shocked to hear Galileo say that the world was
round and we revolve around the Sun instead of the other way
around, it's not because that changed the concept of the Solar
System, it's because we were ignorant and didn't know better!

"Basically, we can't apply our laws to their planet because
our fundamental scientific laws are different then theirs.
Humans can't exists in multiple time subsets...we disappear.
So, can we really accurately say what they are capable of in
regards to time travel, space travel and such? I don't think
so."Yes, we absolutely, definitely can!

StarBox: "Also - what do you all think the shapeshifters
are?? Are they a seperate species? Or are they like some type
of "battle droid" - engineered to obey commands without free
will/souls."I think they are probably mercenaries,
definitely different species, maybe they live in one of the
planets and were colonized, taken over, visited, share space
with Max's race and, because of their abilities, travel to the
other worlds to protect, fight wars, etc.! On the other hand,
since they are so close together, maybe (just as the platypus,
kangaroo, etc. evolutionized differently in Australia) they
came from the same tree, only that branch went a different way
than the branch of the podsters but all of them (and us) have
the potential power to shapeshift sometime in the next
millenium or two (more like 200 to 300!).

No, shapeshifting is not a power they can acquire because
they are on Earth. If so, the Skins would have it. They are
pure alien underneath the husks. They cannot live without
protection. The SS can! They are either a different species or
evolutionized Twilonians... way too evolutionized Twilonians!!
Besides, if you say they "acquired shapeshifting abilities",
you cannot "acquire" anything in one day, one year, one
millenium! It requires millions of years, literally. If they
were Twilonians and they came, they would have burned if they
remained in their everyday skins!

By Zero

01-11-2001,
11:45 AM

quote:Originally posted by Metaphysicalgrl:Good morning
Mythers! Here's my two cents on the Skins being on Earth
theory.

[b] In Harvest, they referred to Max as the once and FUTURE
king. If Khivar is the 'leader' of the skins race, faction, or
whatever you want to call it, and got on the throne by killing
Max and the Royal 4, it would make a whole ton of sense that
if he found out the Royal 4's essences were sent to earth to
be reborn -- well, if I were him I sure as hell would send
some soldiers down to that little blue ball to make sure they
didn't live long enough to come back to Twilo! I think THAT is
why the skins are on earth. Not to take over planet Earth --
but to find the Royals and kill them, thus preventing any
chance of them getting back to Twilo and re-claiming their
rightful positions. Yes? Any takers on this theory? I think we
have enough evidence to support that one... {~}:} [/B]

Met - I also think that is why the "Skins" are here - to
find the Royal 4, destroy them before they have a chance to
return and claim their rightful place (think of some of the
countries on Earth that have their formere "royals" living in
exile still claiming their "right" to return), and to find the
Granolith and return it to Twilo (before its missing becomes
known and creates additional problems for Khivar). Also, a
reminder - the Skins are only "Skins" on earth. It is like you
and me going to Mars and using a special space suit to survive
on the planet, and the Martians calling us "Suits" because
that is how they got to know us. We would only be "Suits" on
Mars, but on Earth we would remain humans. So, the Skins are
Twiloians regardless of there Race. They could be from a
variety of "races" (I'm NOT talking species here - though even
that is possible - look at Star Wars) that have come to Earth
to do Khivar's dirty business, and have to have the Skins in
order to survive having not been killed and remanufactured
into humans using human DNA like the podsters. I think it is
very possible that Max was like a MLK or other person from our
Earth history who tried to bring social and economic change
and died as a result, with Khivar (who might have been a
highly placed leader in his own right) responsible for
Max/Zan's death and downfall. We often use biblical
referrences here - and a perfect analogy is Jesus and the
drastic change he preached (for the time) and the betrayal of
him that resulted in his death.

Also, I was thinking last night about the whole
Tess/Max/Liz thing that came about last year and how I hated
it at first, but now - though I think it wasn't handled the
best - I like that Max and Liz were forced apart, and have to
work their way back to each other. As long as the writers are
careful not to degrade their characters (with 90210 tricks),
the journey back is interesting and ultimately the more
fulfilling. I do think together they are a force to reckon
with, but that they have to discover it, and that slowly they
are. Ultimately, they will be together and a stronger
team/partnership because of what they have gone through and
discovered about each other and themselves.

BTW - Bluecornmoon - excellent post! There have been some
excellent discussions going on! I wish I wasn't so swamped at
work and home so that I could participate more, but ... I will
throw in my two cents every now and then just for fun ... and
keep the thread alive!

Zero I Shall Believe!

By
bluecornmoon

01-11-2001,
11:46 AM

Max as Martin Luther King: hmmm....!

MLK was a man who wanted to change the circumstances of a
particular segment of the population because they were being
treated unfairly! He did it by peaceful means. He was
extremely charismatic and was killed for his efforts. He
developed an even bigger following afterwards and the legend
grows!

King Zan: His family was in charge. He was the ruler. He
may have been immature and made mistakes but his heart was in
the right place! He inherited the Granolith, the one proof
that you are the rightful owner of power and the source of
untold energy that nobody could use except for himself. While
reigning, he may have learned of the plight of his people and
may have decided to change it, for the better. He wanted to
adopt a more democratic system, where there would not be only
an extremely small segment of the population with powers and
material possessions, but to extend that privilege to the
majority. The PTB, the people with "money", didn't like it a
bit and decided to kill him! They got a charismatic leader,
K'var, who started a civil war. Because of betrayal from his
side, King Zan was killed. It seems he was young when he did.

Now, similarities with MLK: Zan wanted to change the
circumstances of the majority of the population of five
planets because they were being treated unfairly! He tried to
do it by peaceful means. He was extremely charismatic and was
killed for his efforts. He developed an even bigger following
afterwards and the legend grows!

hmmmm.......

By fallen
princess

01-11-2001,
11:59 AM

For now, until TPTB show us otherwise, I'll have to side with
MetaphysicalGrl on the whole issue of Twilo having different
basic scientific laws. They have different elements--like the
one that straightens itself out after being crumpled. What
else do they have that we don't? Other than their possession
of our existence when vice versa was not the case, we don't
know. They must be pretty damn sophisticated to be able to
take over a human's body from millions of light years away.
But I'm getting off-track now, because the issue is not their
technology but their environment, correct? Anyway, I've said
my peace.As for the shapeshifter thing, Edsedo (I don't
call him Nasedo 'cause I think TicTac is the 'real' Nasedo)
leads me to believe that they don't shape shift on Twilo
because they don't need to. They have to SS here to survive on
Earth. But on the home planet, they wouldn't need to adapt
their body because that body was made to live there. I believe
that SSing is not necessarily something to be acquired, but
that the aliens are born with this ability to change
themselves if needed in another environment, planet, or
galaxy.Since the Skins are not on the Podsters' side (with
the exception of Courtney and the Michael-worshipers, though
we've yet to see another one), I would assume that their
'race' did not have the SSing technology; or that SSing was
not a hereditary trait of their race. Therefore, they created
the husks as a way for the little alien dudes to survive on
Earth, though foolproof it was not. (Evidence that the Skins'
leaders were not as technologically advanced as the Podsters'?
We'll see. )

By moon
maiden

01-11-2001,
12:02 PM

Hello everyone! I am new here, but have been lurking for a
very long time. First and foremost I would like to express my
respect and appreciation for the elders of this thread. Your
imagination and powers of observation are truly amazing! You
have inspired my Roswell obsession to new heights.

Since the topic of souls and Liz's healing has been
revisited on this thread, I would like to put this out there.
I think that the definitive difference between Liz's healing
and all the others is the eye contact. Max tells her "You have
to look at me". He did not make eye contact with Kyle, and in
ARCC he is careful not to make eye contact with the children
who woke up, for he told them to go back to sleep. Perhaps Max
instinctively knew that he must establish this eye contact
with Liz. The eyes are the "windows into our soul" as the
saying goes. Max later tells Kyle that he and Liz saw into
each other's souls. I think that somehow this is relevant to
Max and Liz's connection. Any thoughts??

I also have a few thoughts on the granolith. The top part
is obviously cone-shaped, I think that is agreed upon. The
part directly underneath the cone is a diamond. If any of you
have a round-cut diamond in any jewelry, turn it upside down
and you will see that it is the same shape. The facets are
along the bottom and the point at the top. The point of the
granolith diamond that glows blue also seems the be the same
shape as the orb with the whirlwind symbol that Max and Liz
found in the desert. I would like to post a pic to illustrate
this, but I don't know how! Maybe someone will oblige?

I have some more information on diamonds and thunderbolts,
but I am still trying to piece it together as it relates to
the granolith. I'll be back later to share when I get it
figured out.

BTW, on page 2 of this thread WR gives a link to a site
about the Lost Continent of Atlantis (www.atlan.org). This is
where I found the info on diamonds and thunderbolts, and there
is a ton of other info that can be seen as relevant to Liz and
the podsters. For example, another name for Eve is considered
to be "the Great Mother" or "AVA"! What does anyone make of
this??

Thanks for listening, and if any of this has been brought
up before, I apologize.

By aldebaran

01-11-2001,
12:02 PM

quote:Originally posted by Zero:

Also, I was thinking last night about the whole
Tess/Max/Liz thing that came about last year and how I hated
it at first, but now - though I think it wasn't handled the
best - I like that Max and Liz were forced apart, and have to
work their way back to each other. As long as the writers are
careful not to degrade their characters (with 90210 tricks),
the journey back is interesting and ultimately the more
fulfilling. I do think together they are a force to reckon
with, but that they have to discover it, and that slowly they
are. Ultimately, they will be together and a stronger
team/partnership because of what they have gone through and
discovered about each other and themselves.

[/B]

Zero - I agree with you on this. No relationship is without
its problems, and the emotionally tough (and persistent)
couples work passed them toward each other. Max and Liz are
eternally and irreversibly connected on every level, probably
for longer than we realize. Since we know that bond won't
break, we really don't have to worry if they will get back
together. Rather, it is a matter of when. They do make a
helluva team, though, don't they? I can't wait to see what
becomes of Liz's powers in the future and how she and Max
combine forces and work together.

By fallen
princess

01-11-2001,
12:08 PM

By the way, does anyone else wonder what Max's real name was
back on Twilo? I mean, we're calling him Zan, but take
Lonnie--Lonnie wasn't Isabel's real name back on Twilo, it was
Vilandra. What's Zan short for? And Rath, and Ava...

By aldebaran

01-11-2001,
12:09 PM

fallen princess, I think that Lonnie was just a nickname for
Vilondra, so Zan/Rath/Ava could be their real names.

By fallen
princess

01-11-2001,
12:17 PM

Yeah, I knew it was a nickname...I just assumed that Zan, Ava,
and Rath were nicknames too

By fallen
princess

01-11-2001,
12:27 PM

moonmaiden:

By Zara

01-11-2001,
12:39 PM

quote:Originally posted by aldebaran:[b]fallen princess, I
think that Lonnie was just a nickname for Vilondra, so
Zan/Rath/Ava could be their real names.[/B]

Gee, Rathsputin pops into mind...

By moon
maiden

01-11-2001,
01:06 PM

Fallen Princess--thanks so much for posting those pics of the
granolith and the orb!! I have also been wandering about the
podsters real names and if they have any meaning, especially
since I read that Ava is another name for Eve. One would think
that the names must have some meaning since TPTB tend to put
some meaning behind almost everything. Who named the podsters
Max, Michael, Isabel, and Tess? Why were these names chosen?
And along those lines, why did TPTB give the podsters the
birthdays they did? The birthdates we know make Max a Pisces,
Tess a Taurus, and Isabel a Libra. Is this somehow
significant? Does anyone know Liz's exact birthdate? I do know
one thing--Pisces is a water sign and Taurus an Earth
sign--together these make MUD!!!

By 4everyoung

01-11-2001,
01:22 PM

Good day everyone

Thought I would take a break from work and check in.

Metaphysicalgirl, you got my mind wandering with your
comment about their planet existing in mutiple subset
dimensions. In Wipe Out it was the green rod in the billboard
that sent the humans into another dimension. Courtney's
comment was -quote- Time exists in multiple subset dimensions
on our planet. Nicholas must have a technology to impose one
or more of these (dimensions) here. Later, Isabel gets herself
caught by Nicholas and tries to escape. She tricks Nicholas
into removing the handcufts and pretends she is going to kiss
him, but instead knocks him down. In the transcrpit it says
she reaches for his fanny pack. Huuuuummmmmm Do you think he
had another green rod or something in that fanny pack and used
it to be in more than one dimension at a time? Or to quickly
travel between dimensions? This could be another possible
explaination of how he survied Tess's fireball. I still think
that even if he did survive using this method, that he has a
stash of husks for himself somewhere.

Just a quick thought to put on the table.

It was you....................Max

By ckkitten

01-11-2001,
01:25 PM

Hope I can butt in zero and aldebaran: I agree with you
both! Something that you have to work hard for is always
appreciated more. AND you always learn more about yourself
along the way...

Zara: Rathsputin..too funny!!!

What about Alexander for Zan/Xan! Avatar for Ava?!!?

By fallen
princess

01-11-2001,
01:28 PM

ckkitten: There's someone over on the CHADs thread that swears
Zan is short for Alexander and Alex Whitman is king!

By fallen
princess

01-11-2001,
01:35 PM

moon maiden: lol! And mud is what Max & Michael keep their
minds on to keep from getting sexually excited!! I agree
that the dates--and possibly names--must have some sort of
significance, but I'm in the dark as of now. Guess we'll just
have to GraceKel things a bit (I got a new VCR with the
clearest slow-mo! ) and see what turns up!

By ckkitten

01-11-2001,
01:43 PM

fallen princess: Cool that someone else thought of it too!
But, I think they're stretchin' it for Alex to be king.

Something else interesting, going along with the whole
elements theme.. I looked up the meaning of Ava in
www.behindthename.com and it says that Ava means "water". The
surname "Ra" means "the sun".

By
bluecornmoon

01-11-2001,
01:59 PM

Moon Princess: Tess' birth certificate says: birthdate: March
7, 1983. She is the same as Max: a Pisces! I remember because
it bugs me that she was born one day before I was
(unfortunately in a different year!).

By
Metaphysicalgrl

01-11-2001,
02:19 PM

quote:Originally posted by bluecornmoon:Metaphysical Girl:
Cut scene from Mom-O-Gram in Destiny: ... so learn your powers
my son and how to vanquish the evil ones, so that you may save
Earth and then come to save us"... or something to that
effect!

Hey Blue! After reading your response to my earlier post I
just have to say I love it when I am proven wrong. I
completely agree with your argument about Physics and whatnot,
and I see how my earlier theory just doesn't ring true. Well
done!

But, in my own defense, it did make for some interesting
conversation, didn't it?

{~}:}

By fallen
princess

01-11-2001,
02:25 PM

I'm no physics major but I still say that at this point
anything goes on Twilo

By Lillie

01-11-2001,
02:27 PM

I thought that Tess' birthday was in May. I really do think
that the names and their birthdays are a clue to them. To how
important each character is.

By moon
maiden

01-11-2001,
02:29 PM

bluecornmoon: I got the date for Tess's birthday from the
timeline in Zero's intro, which is 5/7/1983. I haven't seen
Tess's birth certificate because I haven't seen the majority
of Season 1, so sorry if my info was wrong. Which is the
correct date???

By StarBox

01-11-2001,
02:33 PM

Whoa - you all are just dashing through the thread! And to
think - all this speculation and we dont een have a new
episode! BlueCornMoon - I think you are probably right about
my estimate of only picking up 1/4 of the art design - we are
WAY more obsessed than that!!! :-) I also want to say that I
appreciate your "sci-fi" persective on things - I do not have
much of a background in the realm of sci-fi - so I always
really appreciate hearing how that genre "works" in terms of
laws of time/space/etc

Also - I find the "4 element" (earth air water and fire)
stuff very intriguing. I am beginning to think that the
writers brought Tess on with the intent that she would be an
evil imposter - then they fell in love with the "four elements
+ the fifth element" idea and decided to switch gears. Now its
just a question of seeing if they can get the audience to warm
up to a kinder, gentler, Kyle lovin Tess - if not - they have
the option to "expose" and get rid of (kill off) Tess
(pleasing the majority of the fans who dislike her character)
and then to bring back Ava (and the writers still get their
four elements).

BTW - I forget who initially pointed out the CHANGE sign
behind Liz in Leving Normal but I forgot to say that I TOTALLY
saw it - it MUST have been intentional and I LOVE it, LOVE it,
LOVE it. I couldnt find a screencap but my screencap guru (Pam
- I bow in your general direction - you ROCK!) is making a
custom one for me - it should be in the gallery to the next
thread.

**StarBox**mythologist, dreamer

By fallen
princess

01-11-2001,
02:41 PM

quote:Originally posted by StarBox:Also - I find the "4
element" (earth air water and fire) stuff very intriguing. I
am beginning to think that the writers brought Tess on with
the intent that she would be an evil imposter - then they fell
in love with the "four elements + the fifth element" idea and
decided to switch gears. Now its just a question of seeing if
they can get the audience to warm up to a kinder, gentler,
Kyle lovin Tess - if not - they have the option to "expose"
and get rid of (kill off) Tess (pleasing the majority of the
fans who dislike her character) and then to bring back Ava
(and the writers still get their four elements).

Yes...I still find Season-one Tess to be uncomfortably
creepy. It is painfully obvious that the writers intended to
create a one-dimensional character by slapping an obstacle
between Max and Liz, and that is exactly what they did. To
this day I can't stand the way Tess conducts herself in Crazy
through Destiny. However, someone obviously decided to bring a
new light to Tess, to show her human side and make her less
obsolete. Though I'm liking the new Tess, let me just say I
love Ava and would like nothing more (other than
dreamer-related things) than to see her reappear on the show!
The four elements is interesting indeed. There have been
plenty of clues along the way that loudly suggest that Tess is
not who she appears to be. However, I'm fairly certain she's
unaware...As this really has nothing to do with Liz at all,
I'm going to cut off my rambling here.

By huggybehr

01-11-2001,
03:08 PM

quote:Originally posted by StarBox:I find the "4 element"
(earth air water and fire) stuff very intriguing. I am
beginning to think that the writers brought Tess on with the
intent that she would be an evil imposter - then they fell in
love with the "four elements + the fifth element" idea and
decided to switch gears. Now its just a question of seeing if
they can get the audience to warm up to a kinder, gentler,
Kyle lovin Tess - if not - they have the option to "expose"
and get rid of (kill off) Tess (pleasing the majority of the
fans who dislike her character) and then to bring back Ava
(and the writers still get their four elements).

**StarBox**mythologist, dreamer

Your four elements reference links with the earlier posts
re birthdates and sun signs. Perhaps as we discover the
birthdates of all the podsters we will see the connection even
more. Max = water (Pisces), Isabel = air (Libra), Tess = earth
(Taurus) and Michael = fire (Sagittarius, Leo or Aries). Also
if Liz (the fifth element) is Tess' replacement, perhaps she
is also an earth sign such as Virgo the virgin? Virgo is also
the opposite sign to Pisces!

By arabella

01-11-2001,
03:13 PM

I'm new to this post, so I hope no one minds a little info
input here. You guys are really together on this - I have the
memory of all of 5 minutes, tops....but the granolith thing
really makes sense! I was reading an interview of Majandra and
she said that everyone Max healed is 1/2 alien. With the
'window to the soul' thing that Max and Liz share, I
definitely think that she is different from all the others
that he has saved. Question: do you think that Max is stronger
with Liz around him? and if so, why?

By fallen
princess

01-11-2001,
03:23 PM

Welcome, arabella, to the board & the thread! In response
to your question: In my opinion, yes, Max is stronger when Liz
is around, in many ways:-His weaknesses are covered by her
strengths: they make a great team and can handle so many
situations.-Because of the whole changed thing, yes, I
think that would help make them an even stronger
combo.-Because they are so attached to one
another--soulmates. Sometimes just having that person around
and on your side can make you feel like you can conquer
anything.

By Zero

01-11-2001,
03:24 PM

Hi All ! Looks like it is time to open a new thread. No new
Intro - but I am collecting thoughts and ideas for the next
up-date. Please take comment over to the new thread which
should be up in a few minutes!

Zero I Shall Believe!

By moon
maiden

01-11-2001,
03:35 PM

Here is some interesting info I ran across on dragons and
fish:

Kukulkan, the fiery, winged serpent of the Toltecs and
Mayas, was both a corn-god and a fish(Pisces). He is the god
of reincarntion and resurrection. The Chinese equivalent of
the Mayan god is Yu-kiang, a sea-god represented as either a
flying dragon (Liz's window), a fish(Pisces) or a human.

Max and the other podsters can be considered to have been
resurrected because they died and were brought back to life.
Can Liz be considered as being resurrected by Max, or are her
changes a type of reincarnation? Thoughts???

Also, it is said on the Atlantis site that the fall of
Atlantis was brought about by the marriage of fire and water.
Fire was the volcano on the island that erupted, causing the
ice that covered most of the earth during the ice age to melt.
The melting ice caused the sea level to rise and the water
covered Atlantis. Just a little tidbit on the elements,
although I was hoping to discover that Tess was a fire sign in
order to signify that it was the marriage of Max and Tess that
brought about the deaths of the podsters and the ensuing war
on Twilo. Oh well!! I will keep searching for some
justification that Max belongs with Liz (not that any of us
needs any--we just know!)

By Reggie

01-11-2001,
05:58 PM

quote:Originally posted by Nemo:I see -- Nobody beat me.
He would, of course.

~Nemo [= Nobody (in Latin)]Pfft. I also covered the
"Fallout Shelter" sign, which gets people excited
occasionally, and touched on geodesic domes.Not to make
this sub-thread any more of an Odessey than need be...

By Norma
Bates

01-11-2001,
06:06 PM

quote:Originally posted by heifertipper:Okay something has
been bugging me for awhile, sorry if this has already been
discussed. When congresswoman Whitacker tricks Liz into
revealing Tess's name in "Ask Not" why does she assume that
Tess is Vilandra? Vilandra is suppose to be Zan's sister
right? So why would Whitacker think that the person who stole
Liz's boyfriend away would also be his sister?

Maybe it's something in past history on Twilo. In 285
South, when Max was in the gas station, Liz brought Isabel
something to drink and Isabel accidentally knocked into it
when she turned around. I don't have my scripts with me right
now so I can't quote exactly but Liz tells Isabel that she's
not trying to take Max away from her and Liz asks if Isabel
would try and take Max away from Liz. Perhaps in their past
life the bride tried to get between Vilandra and
Zan.

By Reggie

01-11-2001,
06:27 PM

quote:Originally posted by Metaphysicalgrl:In Harvest,
they referred to Max as the once and FUTURE king. If Khivar --
well, if I were him I sure as hell would send some soldiers
down to that little blue ball to make sure they (the podsters)
didn't live long enough to come back to Twilo! [/B]Exactly
what I think. Remember what Nikolas was pitching to Lonnie: K'
var wants Max dead, and may let Lonnie come back if she can
arrange it. She isn't a competitor for the Throne, you see.

By
JBehrAddict

01-11-2001,
08:56 PM

Here's the link to Part 26:
http://bbs.fanforum.com/Forum3/HTML/004715.html