Shofar FTP Archive File: people/k/kreiberg.ole/1996/kreiberg.0396

From olk@login.dknet.dk Fri Mar 1 18:21:35 PST 1996
Article: 112423 of soc.culture.african.american
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!en.com!news.crosslink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news99.sunet.se!cph-1.news.DK.net!dkuug!dknet!usenet
From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: The Negros Origin of mankind!
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 15:16:50 +0100
Organization: DKnet / EUnet Denmark - Login Tjenesten
Lines: 12
Message-ID:
References: <1996Feb5.163602.1@ucsvax>
NNTP-Posting-Host: login.dknet.dk
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.african.american:112423 alt.politics.white-power:20309
The Ancient egyptians were ethnic closely related to the Berbers, the
indiginous population of North Africa. The Berbers are, if they are unmixed
of White Mediterreanoid race. So were the the Ancient Egyptians.
The ancient Egypt declined in time with inmixture of Negro genes into
the genepool of it's population. The cause of the decline of ancient
Egypt is miscegenation and nothing else.
Ole Kreiberg
--
From olk@login.dknet.dk Wed Mar 6 18:42:06 PST 1996
Article: 26373 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.coast.net!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news99.sunet.se!cph-1.news.DK.net!dkuug!dknet!usenet
From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.french,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Polish Jews during WW2
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 1996 20:53:10 -0100
Organization: DKnet / EUnet Denmark - Login Tjenesten
Lines: 109
Message-ID: <6bWFnOev1GtB065yn@login.dknet.dk>
References: <5OYDnOev1WrI065yn@login.dknet.dk> <9603031430.AA06570@iannis.ircam.fr> <4hhkis$2cf5@sat.ipp-garching.mpg.de>
NNTP-Posting-Host: login.dknet.dk
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.french:63190 alt.revisionism:26373
In article <4hhkis$2cf5@sat.ipp-garching.mpg.de>, Jean-Marc Schwartz wrote:
>At 21:38 26.02.1996 +0100, Ole Kreiberg wrote:
First of all I suggest that if we are going to continue this discussion,
we do this in alt.revisionism. I was just posting some material to
soc.culture.french in order to defy the infamous Fabius-Gayssot law.
>> You forget that all the Jews living in the area occupied by the
>>Soviets.
>>Remember that Poland never got this part back from the Sovjets. The
>>240489
>>is the number living in Western Poland. We do not know how many lived in
>>Eastern Poland after the war.
>>
>> In 1939 the Jews in Poland was dispersed as follows:
>>
>> Areas incoperated by Germany 534000 (20.3 %)
>> Government General of Poland 1073000 (40.8 %)
>> ------------------------------------------------
>> Under German administration 1607000 (61.0 %)
>> Annexed by the Soviet Union 1026000 (39.0 %)
>> ------------------------------------------------
>> Former Polish Jews (1939) 2633000 (100.0%)
>>
>> After the escape of of at least 750000 Jews from Western Poland to
>> Soviet occupied Eastern Poland:
>>
>> Areas under German control 757000 (28.8 %)
>> Areas under Soviet control 1776000 (67.5 %)
>> Refugees in Rumania 100000 ( 3.8 %)
>> ------------------------------------------------
>> Polish Jews (end of 1939) 2633000 (100.0%)
>>
>>Jews in Western Poland in the end of 1939 757000
>>and after the war 240489
>>----------------------------------------------------
>>Number of Jews missing from the statistics 516511
>>
>> How many of these Jews were killed by the Germans, how many died from
>>the many epidemics of typhoid fever, and how many fled to the west at the
>>end of the war?
>
>
>There is still something I don't understand.
>You say there were only 757000 Jews in the Polish areas under German
>control at the end of 1939 : OK for 1939, but after 1941,
>and until 1944, whole Poland got under German control.
>So these statistics don't prove anything for the 1776000 Jews
>from Eastern Poland.
Well as we already know from jewish sources and the Polish government in
exile, 600,000-1,000,000 fled to the Sovjet controlled Eastern Poland in
1939 and from there dispersed all over the Sovjet union. 530,000 Jews were
evacuated by Stalin from Eastern Poland shortly after the German attack. How
many were then left? Who knows for sure?
>You say yourself that we do not know how many Jews were still
>in Eastern Poland after the war : from these figures, it remains
>entirely possible that these 1776000 were killed by the nazis
>between 1941 and 1944.
You are guessing. Do you have any evidence?
>
>Furthermore, as you seem to like statistics, I found other ones :
>
>
> Number of Jews Number of Jewish
> "moved" to Polish camps survivants in 1945
>
>from Europe except Soviet Union : 2550193 127510
>Occupied areas of Soviet Union : 1939001 96940
>
>
>I let you calculate the difference.
>Source : G.Wellers "La Solution Finale de la Mythomanie néo-nazie" (1979)
>
>I hope at least to show you that way that with statistics, it is easy
>to prove everything and its opposite.
>
>I would like to suggest you another thing : there are certainly also
>in Denmark people who would be able to tell you about their own
>experiences in WWII, or tell you how some members of their family,
>their friends or their neighbours were one day arrested by Nazis,
>and never came back again.
The husband of my the father's cousin was a policeman. After the
liberation of Paris in 1944, where the French police had joined forces
with the resistance, the Germans thought that they might not trust the
Danish police in a similiar situation. So they apprehended and tranferred
the police to Buchenwald concentration camp. The above-mentioned policeman
went there but not for long. His wife had treated with tuberculosis and she
was told that the Germans were almost paranoid about infectious diseases.
Therefore she went up to the Gestapo-headquarter in Copenhageb and said that
her doctor had told her that there may be a great risk that her husband
was infected. Voila, after a few days her husband was back. I have heard a
lot about these policemens' experiences in Buchenwald.
>You said you read books about revisionism, and this convinced you.
>But to get an objective point of view, isn't it important to listen
>once also to the opposite arguments ?
Sure before I became a revisionist, I saw a lot of films and read a lot of
books about the established holocauststory. I am not a fanatic revisionist.
I detest all sort fanatism.
Ole Kreiberg
--
From olk@login.dknet.dk Mon Mar 11 11:21:45 PST 1996
Article: 26922 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!helix.net!unixg.ubc.ca!news.bc.net!news.uoregon.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dish.news.pipex.net!pipex!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news99.sunet.se!cph-1.news.DK.net!dkuug!dknet!usenet
From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Jewish Eyewitnesses
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 1996 20:33:19 +0100
Organization: DKnet / EUnet Denmark - Login Tjenesten
Lines: 111
Message-ID:
NNTP-Posting-Host: login.dknet.dk
The following are critical comments by mostly Jews about the credibility
of the Jewish Holocaust eyewitnesses:
"A large number of testimonials on file were later proved to be
inaccurate when locations and dates could not pass an expert
historian's appraisal"
-Shmuel Krakowski
Director of Archives, Yad Vashem, Israel.
Interview in Jerusalem Post, 17th August 1986; page 1
"Much of personal [survivor] testimony is unreliable about
names, location or dates... What survivors speak about most is
their suffering. Samuel Gringauz, himself a survivor, had harsh
words for these personal histories. In the January 1950 issue of
Jewish Social Studies he called them "Judeocentric, logocentric
and egocentric". For him, most of the memoires were full of
'preposterous verbosity, exaggeration, dramatic effects,
dilettante philosophizing, would be lyricism, unchecked rumours,
bias and apologies"
-Raul Hilberg
Interview in Jerusalem Post, International Edition, 28th June
1986; page 8
"A certain degree of reserve is necessary in handling all this
material ... particular [survivor narratives]... the Eastern
European Jew is a natural rhetorician, speaking in flowery
similes...sometimes the imagery transcends credibility"
-Gerald Reitlinger
The Final Solution
Sphere Books, London, 1971; page 581
"If Eichmann's name was mentioned at all, it was obviously hearsay
evidence, "rumours testified to", hence without legal validity.
The testimony of all witnesses who had "seen him with their own
eyes" collapsed the moment a question was addressed to them"
-Hannah Arendt
Eichmann in Jerusalem
Penguin Books, London, 1978; page 672
"But it is true that, along with many authentic works, there have
been books or films which were only partly true, or even were
partly faked. And unfortunately, even reputable historians often
fail in their duty of care...for instance Martin Gilbert...in
Final Journey"
-Gitta Sereny
New Statesman
2nd November 1979; page 672
"A very disturbing thing has happened to journalism, to the
writing of history, and even to justice. In anything to do with
the Nazis...any attempt at detachment is considered suspect, any
degree of objectivity reprehensible...I have to battle in print
against...men like Martin Gray (For Those I Loved) who use these
appalling [Holocaust] events for self-aggrandisement...but
attacking Gray causes wrathful indignation among Holocaust
dogmatists"
-Gitta Sereny
London Review of Books
21st April 1988; page 3
"I know of no other case in which so many deviations from
procedures internationally accepted as desirable occurred. "Every
year on August 2 - the day of the uprising in Treblinka - some of
survivors used to meet in Tel Aviv. Turowski, Goldfarb and
Rosenfarb all lived in Israel, as did the witnesses who identified
Demjanjuk in September and October: Czarny, Boraks and Lindwasser.
Their testimony can be accepted only after it established that
they did not meet with the other three.
"Some doubts on the matter are justified because...the witnesses
travelled together in the same aircraft to Fort Lauderdale, where
the Fedorenko trial was held. They also stayed in the same hotel,
had meals together, but were still supposed to make fully
independent identifications. Boraks - who was not in full command
of his memory when questioned in 1987 - declared when asked about
the journey to Fort Lauderdale, that he went there by train."
-Dr. William A. Wagenaar
Identifying Ivan
Harvard University Press, 1989; page 110
"...More detailed research [into the Holocaust] however mostly
establishes only how shaky is the ground we're on; the consensus
of research data often turns out only to be the result of
everybody having uncritically copied what everybody else was
writing; the actual documentary basis on many matters is
frighteningly narrow and is in consequence easily shattered by
some new find or other; in all too documentary basis on many
matters we are still groping in total darkness. If we are to avert
being scandalously shown up, in the next few years historical
research is going to have to do all it can not only to establish
better documentary defences but broader-based ones as well"
Dr. Hans-Heinrich Wilhelm
Offene Fragen der Holocaust-Fragen
An unpublished paper delivered at a symposium at the University of
Riga in September 1988.
Posted by Ole kreiberg
--
From olk@login.dknet.dk Sat Mar 16 08:48:26 PST 1996
Article: 27207 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.coast.net!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news99.sunet.se!cph-1.news.DK.net!dkuug!dknet!usenet
From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ole Kreiberg & the Krakowski Lie
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 13:45:12 +0100
Organization: DKnet / EUnet Denmark - Login Tjenesten
Lines: 12
Message-ID:
References: <4iapug$oj3@news.enter.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: login.dknet.dk
In article <4iapug$oj3@news.enter.net>, Yale F. Edeiken wrote:
>You smeared and slandered a fellow named Krakowski and seem not whit whit
>apologetic about having done so.
No why would I? I was acting in good faith trusting that the Jerusalem
Post was a reliable source. And then stop calling me Nazi-boy. This is an
outright libel.
Ole Kreiberg
--
From olk@login.dknet.dk Sun Mar 17 21:12:51 PST 1996
Article: 27354 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!lade.news.pipex.net!pipex!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news99.sunet.se!cph-1.news.DK.net!dkuug!dknet!usenet
From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Crematories: round 2 (1) (fwd)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 1996 21:45:37 +0100
Organization: DKnet / EUnet Denmark - Login Tjenesten
Lines: 34
Message-ID:
References: <4iel0a$b6b@Vir.com> <199603171633.LAA07065@access1.digex.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: login.dknet.dk
In article <199603171633.LAA07065@access1.digex.net>, Michael P. Stein wrote:
>------- start of forwarded message -------
>[3]Obviously a hoax perpetrated by a JOOSH historian. We all know that
>open-air mass burning is impossible, right?
Who has ever claimed that open-air mass burning is impossible? Only burning
in open pits where the bodies are huddled tightly together upon each other
seems improbably.
>[4]I contacted Mr. Looker by phone. I asked him what the maximum
>throughput would be if the only concern were burning as fast as possible -
>say, in case of plague - with no thought to niceties of color or returning
>the right ashes to the right relatives. He said one average adult body
>per hour. The rating is really in terms of mass - he said ovens vary from
>about 100 to 200 lbs per hour. (His model is top-of-the-line, but of
>course you'd expect him to say that.) He agreed it would be quite possible
>to handle two undersized and emaciated women or 3-4 small children in the
>same period of time if they were equivalent in total mass. Without any
>prompting from me, he mentioned in passing that older crematoria were
>quite capable of shooting out flames if overloaded, a phenomenon he called
>a "candle." True, he did not say thirty feet; his figure was "only" eight
>to ten feet. His own product is designed to avoid this. Even so, he said
>that if he actively tried for it, there is a reasonable chance he could
>produce the effect as well.
And for how long time would the chimneys stand this treatment?
Anyway it is an interesting article.
Ole Kreiberg
--
From olk@login.dknet.dk Sun Mar 17 21:12:51 PST 1996
Article: 27355 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!lade.news.pipex.net!pipex!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news99.sunet.se!cph-1.news.DK.net!dkuug!dknet!usenet
From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ole Kreiberg & the Krakowski Lie
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 1996 22:11:44 +0100
Organization: DKnet / EUnet Denmark - Login Tjenesten
Lines: 23
Message-ID:
References: <4iapug$oj3@news.enter.net> <199603170853.DAA06676@vixa.voyager.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: login.dknet.dk
In article <199603170853.DAA06676@vixa.voyager.net>, Jamie McCarthy wrote:
>(A copy of this message has also been posted to the following newsgroups:
>alt.revisionism)
>
>olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) wrote:
>
>> I was acting in good faith trusting that the Jerusalem
>> Post was a reliable source.
>
>Not even Bradley Smith claims to have gotten the Krakowski error
>directly from the Jerusalem Post. He admits that he got it from
>revisionist friends or colleagues of his, and that it's been passed
>around for a while.
>
>Where did you really get the quote, Mr. Kreiberg?
Does it matter where I got the article from? It only counts whether the
quote was authentic or not.
Ole Kreiberg
--
From olk@login.dknet.dk Sun Mar 17 21:12:52 PST 1996
Article: 27356 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!lade.news.pipex.net!pipex!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news99.sunet.se!cph-1.news.DK.net!dkuug!dknet!usenet
From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ole Kreiberg & the Krakowski Lie
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 1996 22:18:53 +0100
Organization: DKnet / EUnet Denmark - Login Tjenesten
Lines: 22
Message-ID:
References: <4i1usk$mmn@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: login.dknet.dk
In article , Daniel Keren wrote:
>olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) writes:
># Anyway, this is typical for you anti-revisionist, you just sit
># there waiting for revisionists to make a small mistake and then
># abuse this to smear and slander them by calling them liars.
>
>Ah, shut your trap, you stupid little whiner. Go cry to your mommy.
>
I think that the reason that Daniel Keren always is so rude and
insolent is that he hopes that he can provoke his counterparts to respond
the same way. This give him the opportunity to air his Jewish paranoia
by shouting about "anti-semitism" and "nazism". I remember he once provoked
me to call him the master of abuse and distortion without mentioning
his Jewish background and at once he made comparisons with Goebels. As
so many other Jews he has got "nazis" on the brain. Oh now I have said
something unfavourable about Jews so therefore I must be nasty a nazi and
anti-semite, because the Jews cannot do anything wrong.
Ole Kreiberg
--
From olk@login.dknet.dk Sun Mar 24 15:05:32 PST 1996
Article: 27631 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!nntp.coast.net!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news99.sunet.se!cph-1.news.DK.net!dkuug!dknet!usenet
From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Crematories: round 2 (1) (fwd)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 21:20:00 +0100
Organization: DKnet / EUnet Denmark - Login Tjenesten
Lines: 19
Message-ID:
References: <4iel0a$b6b@Vir.com> <199603171633.LAA07065@access1.digex.net> <199603190119.UAA24074@access5.digex.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: login.dknet.dk
In article <199603190119.UAA24074@access5.digex.net>, Michael P. Stein wrote:
>In article ,
>Ole Kreiberg wrote:
>>In article <199603171633.LAA07065@access1.digex.net>, Michael P. Stein wrote:
>>
>>>[3]Obviously a hoax perpetrated by a JOOSH historian. We all know that
>>>open-air mass burning is impossible, right?
>>
>>Who has ever claimed that open-air mass burning is impossible? Only burning
>>in open pits where the bodies are huddled tightly together upon each other
>>seems improbably.
>
> Ah, but then again, who has ever said the bodies were huddled tightly
>together upon each other?
It has still not been properly explained what the purpose was of using open
pits instead of ordinary pyres.
--
From olk@login.dknet.dk Sun Mar 24 15:05:33 PST 1996
Article: 27664 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!sgigate.sgi.com!nntp.coast.net!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news99.sunet.se!cph-1.news.DK.net!dkuug!dknet!usenet
From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ole Kreiberg & the Krakowski Lie
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 19:40:00 +0100
Organization: DKnet / EUnet Denmark - Login Tjenesten
Lines: 25
Message-ID:
References: <4iia2r$d37@news.enter.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: login.dknet.dk
In article <4iia2r$d37@news.enter.net>, Yale F. Edeiken wrote:
>> olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) writes:
>> In article <199603170853.DAA06676@vixa.voyager.net>, Jamie McCarthy
>wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >Where did you really get the quote, Mr. Kreiberg?
>>
>> Does it matter where I got the article from? It only counts whether the
>> quote was authentic or not.
>>
>>
>>>>>
>
>Since the quote is fraudulent it certainly does make a difference.
So far as I can understand from some of the anti-revisionist participants
of this newsgroup, it was printed in the Jerusalem Post, the way I quoted it.
Then Krakowski later claimed to have been misqouted in a letter to the
editor of the same newspaper. Who should I rely on in this case, the anti-
revisionists or the revisionists? As I am a revisionist I choose the latter.
I have not been presented with any evidence that the quote was fraudulent.
Ole Kreiberg
--
From olk@login.dknet.dk Sun Mar 24 15:05:33 PST 1996
Article: 27665 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!sgigate.sgi.com!nntp.coast.net!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news99.sunet.se!cph-1.news.DK.net!dkuug!dknet!usenet
From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ole Kreiberg & the Krakowski Lie
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 19:58:03 +0100
Organization: DKnet / EUnet Denmark - Login Tjenesten
Lines: 11
Message-ID:
References: <4iiad1$d37@news.enter.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: login.dknet.dk
In article <4iiad1$d37@news.enter.net>, Yale F. Edeiken wrote:
> The fact remains that you posted a lie.
Are you trying to say that the Jerusalem Post printed a lie? If this is so,
how can I be responsible for that.
Ole Kreiberg
--
From olk@login.dknet.dk Sun Mar 24 15:05:34 PST 1996
Article: 28098 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!lade.news.pipex.net!pipex!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news99.sunet.se!cph-1.news.DK.net!dkuug!dknet!usenet
From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: True Hate Propaganda
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 13:19:12 +0100
Organization: DKnet / EUnet Denmark - Login Tjenesten
Lines: 15
Message-ID:
NNTP-Posting-Host: login.dknet.dk
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:28098 soc.culture.jewish:38812
Sometimes the treatment of the Jews by the Germans during WW2 is
represented as something the whole of Europe is "responsible" for.
This is certainly an insult to the older generation in countries like
Denmark and France who saw their countries being invaded by their
ancient old enemy. Hitler said several times that national socialism
knows only Germany and is not meant for export. How can other countries
than Germany be responsible for acts ordered by the Nazi-German government?
Therefore it bothers me that some Jews are trying to blame the
whole of Europe for what the Germans did or did not do to the Jews
during WW2. This is true hate propaganda against the Europeans.
Ole Kreiberg.
--
From olk@login.dknet.dk Sun Mar 24 15:05:34 PST 1996
Article: 28110 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!lade.news.pipex.net!pipex!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news99.sunet.se!cph-1.news.DK.net!dkuug!dknet!usenet
From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ole Kreiberg & the Krakowski Lie
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 19:57:50 +0100
Organization: DKnet / EUnet Denmark - Login Tjenesten
Lines: 14
Message-ID:
References: <4iia2r$d37@news.enter.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: login.dknet.dk
In article , Mark Van Alstine wrote:
>
>I believe the question was: "Where did you really get the quote, Mr. Kreiberg?"
>
>Is this too hard to answer for some reason?
>
No, not really. Well, since so many people seem to be interested, I have in
fact got it from the cover of The Leuchter Report, Focal Point Publications,
London 1989 p 67.
Ole Kreiberg
--
From olk@login.dknet.dk Sun Mar 24 15:05:35 PST 1996
Article: 28155 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!sgigate.sgi.com!nntp.coast.net!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news99.sunet.se!cph-1.news.DK.net!dkuug!dknet!usenet
From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: True Hate Propaganda
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 13:44:30 +0100
Organization: DKnet / EUnet Denmark - Login Tjenesten
Lines: 40
Message-ID:
References: <199603232049.PAA02685@lucid.idirect.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: login.dknet.dk
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:28155 soc.culture.jewish:38881
In article <199603232049.PAA02685@lucid.idirect.com>, NaziHunter wrote:
>In article , olk@login.dknet.dk says...
>>
>> Sometimes the treatment of the Jews by the Germans during WW2 is
>>represented as something the whole of Europe is "responsible" for.
>>This is certainly an insult to the older generation in countries like
>>Denmark and France who saw their countries being invaded by their
>>ancient old enemy. Hitler said several times that national socialism
>>knows only Germany and is not meant for export. How can other countries
>>than Germany be responsible for acts ordered by the Nazi-German government?
>>
>>Therefore it bothers me that some Jews are trying to blame the
>>whole of Europe for what the Germans did or did not do to the Jews
>>during WW2. This is true hate propaganda against the Europeans.
>>
>>
>>Ole Kreiberg.
>>--
>
>So sorry to disabuse you of your delusions, but, since you mention France, are
>you aware that the French Nationa Police actively aided the Gestapo in rounding
>up Jews for deportation.? They were rather good at it, too.
The French police only cooperated because the French nation had German
guns in it's backs. It is like when an aeroplane is hijacked, the pilot and
the crew obey the orders the Hijackers. This does not make them an accessary
in the crime.
>The Danes, on the other hand, refused to cooperate with any Nazi persecution of
>the Jews.
In eyes of the Danes Germany was an eternal ugly old enemy whose
interests they was never very keen to serve. Even today the Danes dislike
the Germans and their rotten European Union (often nicknamed "Neuropa").
>From times immemorial Germany has been like an evil shadow over Denmark.
Ole Kreiberg
--
From olk@login.dknet.dk Tue Mar 26 18:58:04 PST 1996
Article: 28258 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.coast.net!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news99.sunet.se!cph-1.news.DK.net!dkuug!dknet!usenet
From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: True Hate Propaganda
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 21:48:47 +0100
Organization: DKnet / EUnet Denmark - Login Tjenesten
Lines: 119
Message-ID:
References: <8YRLnOev10PQ065yn@login.dknet.dk> <4j56vk$5u0@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: login.dknet.dk
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:28258 soc.culture.jewish:39000
In article <4j56vk$5u0@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, FreshAgain wrote:
>OK: Ole Kreiberg
>AM: Andrew Mathis
>
>OK:> Sometimes the treatment of the Jews by the Germans during WW2 is
>>represented as something the whole of Europe is "responsible" for.
>>
>>AM: You mean they weren't? OK, yes there were MANY, MANY righteous
>>gentiles who risked life and limb to save Jewish lives. But for the most
>>part? Europe stood and watched--many with glee.
>
>OK: What do you mean by "Europe"? Europe is the name of a continent. As a
>Dane I have as little in common with a German or Frenchman, as I have with
>an American or New Zealander. A common European identity exists only
>in the fantasies of certain Americans. As a racist idea perhaps.
>
>AM: Lemme get this straight--you're calling ME a racist? YOU? HAHHAHAH!
>Look, Ole, you introduced the idea of "the whole of Europe", not me.
No, sometimes the Jews and even the Gentile Americans speak about the
second world war as "Europe" fighting nazism. It was not an ideological
war (except on the Eastern front). It was a war between nations. It was a
war between Germany and other Great Powers. It was a war between nations.
Small countries like Denmark, Norway and Sweden were only interested in
staying out. Unfortunately Denmark and Norway were placed geographically
in military strategical important areas and were therefore occupied by the
Germans. The Germans never tried to nazify Denmark.
>
>OK: By they way, where were "Europe" when million of people died in
>Soviet
>prison camps? Remember more people died in communist camps than in
>nazi-camps. Why is it okay to forget the victims of communism but not
>the victims of nazism? Why is it worse to kill people on account of race
>than of political views or social group (like the kulaks)?
>
>AM: For one thing, race is not something you choose, but that's beside the
>point. Look, Ole, everyone knows that Stalin killed more people than
>Hitler, but Hitler went out of his way to kill Jews, invading lands he had
>no idea of ever inhabiting with German people, just to get at their Jews.
>Get it?
This is not true. He invaded lands to the east to get "Lebensraum" which
meant to expand Germany. He also wanted to brake the neck on communism once
and for all. The Jewish question was just a side issue.
>
>OK: >Hitler said several times that national socialism
>>knows only Germany and is not meant for export.
>>
>>AM: Right. That would explain all those puppet gov'ts he propped up and
>>all those countries he invaded. Does the name Quisling ring a bell? Was
>>he a German?
>
>OK: The legal Norvegian government, in contrary to the Danish
>government,
>chickened out and ran away leaving the hapless Norvegian people in the
>hands
>of the Germans. As there was no legal government any longer, the Germans
>appointed one which they considered loyal to themselves and not the
>Norvegian people. Without the German occupational army Quisling would
>never
>have had a chance. Trying to blame the Norvegian people for Quisling is a
>great insult to those Norvegian old enough to remember WW2.
>
>AM: Nice try. I don't blame the Norwegian people; I blame Hitler, who you
>claimed didn't try to export Nazism. I bring up Quisling, and all of a
>sudden I had the Norse. You are a twisted guy.
The Norvegian Nazis were the only ones interested in cooperating with the
Germans. All the other politicians had fled. In Denmark a coalition
government composed of all the parties in parliament except the tiny Danish
Nazi party was formed with the political agenda to secure the independence
and formal neutrality of Denmark in spite of difficult circumstances. This
meant keeping all Nazi-features out inclusive hostility to Jews. That it is
why no actions were taken against the Jews by the Germans before the Danish
government resigned in August 1943 and the formal neutrality thereby
abandoned. The German action against the Jews came in October 1943.
>OK: >How can other countries
>>than Germany be responsible for acts ordered by the Nazi-German
>>government?
>>
>>AM: They helped. Specifically in countries like France and Poland.
>
>OK: It is an even bigger insult to the Polish people than to the
>Norvegian to
>be identified with nazism. Poland was the country which suffered most
>because of the Germans. The nazi ideology was quite hostile to Slavic
>people such as the Poles.
>
>AM: And the Poles were too antisemitic to care. They LOVED that Hitler
>deported all their Jews to camps. LOVED IT.
But they still hated their arch enemy, Germany, and the nazi ideology
was still very harsh to the Poles.
Poland was that country in Europe where the largest part of the population
was Jewish, while the opposite was the case in Denmark. This explains the
difference in attitudes.
>>
>OK: >Therefore it bothers me that some Jews are trying to blame the
>>whole of Europe for what the Germans did or did not do to the Jews
>>during WW2.
>>
>>AM: Let's see: rape, murder, theft--what did the Germans NOT do to the
>>Jews during the war?
>
>OK: Gee, I have never heard that the Germans raped Jews.
>
>AM: Yes, even though it was against German law, rape was common. Often
>inside synagogues. Gosh, the Germans are so civilized!
Yes such acts would certainly be against the Nuremberg laws, which
prohibited sexual connections between Gentiles and Jews.
Ole Kreiberg
--
From olk@login.dknet.dk Tue Mar 26 18:58:05 PST 1996
Article: 28350 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!xmission!news.uoregon.edu!news.corpcomm.net!news.pe.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news99.sunet.se!cph-1.news.DK.net!dkuug!dknet!usenet
From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: True Hate Propaganda
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 20:03:04 +0100
Organization: DKnet / EUnet Denmark - Login Tjenesten
Lines: 80
Message-ID: <8YRLnOev10PQ065yn@login.dknet.dk>
References: <4j1g5q$r9l@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: login.dknet.dk
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:28350 soc.culture.jewish:39106
In article <4j1g5q$r9l@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, FreshAgain wrote:
> Sometimes the treatment of the Jews by the Germans during WW2 is
>represented as something the whole of Europe is "responsible" for.
>
>AM: You mean they weren't? OK, yes there were MANY, MANY righteous
>gentiles who risked life and limb to save Jewish lives. But for the most
>part? Europe stood and watched--many with glee.
What do you mean by "Europe"? Europe is the name of a continent. As a
Dane I have as little in common with a German or Frenchman, as I have with
an American or New Zealander. A common European identity exists only
in the fantasies of certain Americans. As a racist idea perhaps.
What did the Swedes do to the Jews during WW2? Didn't they agree to receive
all the Jews coming from Denmark? And what about Switzerland? How many
Englishmen and members of resistence in the occupied countries did sacrify
their lives against the German enemy. How dare you spit on their graves
and memories?
By they way, where were "Europe" when million of people died in Soviet
prison camps? Remember more people died in communist camps than in
nazi-camps. Why is it okay to forget the victims of communism but not
the victims of nazism? Why is it worse to kill people on account of race
than of political views or social group (like the kulaks)?
>
>This is certainly an insult to the older generation in countries like
>Denmark and France who saw their countries being invaded by their
>ancient old enemy.
>
>AM: Poor France. They've been conquered so often lately,
So when? In the first World War they succeded in keeping the Germans back.
I think that the Germans could have been a little better as soldiers. So
they might have had a problem there.
>Hitler said several times that national socialism
>knows only Germany and is not meant for export.
>
>AM: Right. That would explain all those puppet gov'ts he propped up and
>all those countries he invaded. Does the name Quisling ring a bell? Was
>he a German?
The legal Norvegian government, in contrary to the Danish government,
chickened out and ran away leaving the hapless Norvegian people in the hands
of the Germans. As there was no legal government any longer, the Germans
appointed one which they considered loyal to themselves and not the
Norvegian people. Without the German occupational army Quisling would never
have had a chance. Trying to blame the Norvegian people for Quisling is a
great insult to those Norvegian old enough to remember WW2.
>How can other countries
>than Germany be responsible for acts ordered by the Nazi-German
>government?
>
>AM: They helped. Specifically in countries like France and Poland.
It is an even bigger insult to the Polish people than to the Norvegian to
be identified with nazism. Poland was the country which suffered most
because of the Germans. The nazi ideology was quite hostile to Slavic
people such as the Poles.
>Denmark was another story. They were remarkable folks to the Jews during
>the war. It's surprising to hear such dross from a Danish mouth.
I think I am going to puke. Remarkable folks. Bah, bullshit.
>
>Therefore it bothers me that some Jews are trying to blame the
>whole of Europe for what the Germans did or did not do to the Jews
>during WW2.
>
>AM: Let's see: rape, murder, theft--what did the Germans NOT do to the
>Jews during the war?
Gee, I have never heard that the Germans raped Jews.
Ole Kreiberg
--
From olk@login.dknet.dk Tue Mar 26 18:58:06 PST 1996
Article: 28435 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news.tcst.com!news.spectrum.titan.com!buffnet2.buffnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!lade.news.pipex.net!pipex!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news99.sunet.se!cph-1.news.DK.net!dkuug!dknet!usenet
From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ole Kreiberg & the Krakowski Lie
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 16:21:07 +0100
Organization: DKnet / EUnet Denmark - Login Tjenesten
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <3IOLnOev10YI065yn@login.dknet.dk>
References: <4iia2r$d37@news.enter.net> <4ituf2$1b3m@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: login.dknet.dk
In article <4ituf2$1b3m@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca>, John Morris wrote:
>olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) wrote:
>
>
>
>> So far as I can understand from some of the anti-revisionist participants
>>of this newsgroup, it was printed in the Jerusalem Post, the way I quoted it.
>>Then Krakowski later claimed to have been misqouted in a letter to the
>>editor of the same newspaper. Who should I rely on in this case, the anti-
>>revisionists or the revisionists? As I am a revisionist I choose the latter.
>>I have not been presented with any evidence that the quote was fraudulent.
>
>Translation: ideology is more important than the truth.
>
Since when has revisionism become an ideology?
Ole Kreiberg
--
From olk@login.dknet.dk Tue Mar 26 18:58:06 PST 1996
Article: 28436 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news.tcst.com!news.spectrum.titan.com!buffnet2.buffnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!lade.news.pipex.net!pipex!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news99.sunet.se!cph-1.news.DK.net!dkuug!dknet!usenet
From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ole Kreiberg & the Krakowski Lie
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 16:25:25 +0100
Organization: DKnet / EUnet Denmark - Login Tjenesten
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <5MOLnOev1WX8065yn@login.dknet.dk>
References: <4iia2r$d37@news.enter.net> <4iv8k2$m5h@news.nyu.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: login.dknet.dk
In article <4iv8k2$m5h@news.nyu.edu>, Jeremy A. Litt wrote:
>Oh, and by the way, how did you manage to confuse the Leuchter Report
>with the Jerusalem Post? Just curious.
The Krakowski quote from the Jerusalem Post is printed on the cover
(the backside) of the English edition of the Leuchter Report. Is that so
difficult to understand? The publisher - not Leuchter placed it there
together with other interesting quotes. Are you still confused?
Ole Kreiberg
--
From olk@login.dknet.dk Tue Mar 26 19:16:11 PST 1996
Article: 22946 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news.tcst.com!news.spectrum.titan.com!dildog.lgc.com!news.sesqui.net!news01.aud.alcatel.com!gatech!swrinde!cssun.mathcs.emory.edu!nntp.msstate.edu!news.memphis.edu!lamarck.sura.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.coast.net!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news99.sunet.se!cph-1.news.DK.net!dkuug!dknet!usenet
From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,
Subject: Re: Europe-wide Action Week Against Racism 16-24 March 1996!
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 13:25:07 +0100
Organization: DKnet / EUnet Denmark - Login Tjenesten
Lines: 56
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3jLLnOev1Ww9065yn@login.dknet.dk>
References:
NNTP-Posting-Host: login.dknet.dk
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:22946 alt.discrimination:44781
In article , Djadja Cromanta wrote:
>*** ONE RACE - HUMAN RACE ***
>
>On March 21st 1960 the South African police forces murdered in a massacre
>70 demonstrants in Sharpville, who wanted to protest peacefully against
>pass legislation.
>
>On October 26th 1966 the General Assembly of the United Nations declared
>the 21st of March to be 'International Day for Elimination of
> Racial
>Discrimination'.
>
>This year's "European-wide Action Week Against Racism" (March 16-24, 1996)
>follows the successfull weeks in 1993, 1994 and 1995 being coordinated by
>UNITED, the European network against racism.
>
>In March 1994 hundreds of thousands stood up against racism. This
>successful outcome lead the UN to the enlargement of their memorial day to
>an "UN Week of Solidarity with the Peoples Struggling against Racism and
>Racial Discrimination".
>
>In 1995 the Council of Europe started the highlight period of its "All
>Different-All Equal - European Youth Campain against Racism, Xenophobia,
>Antisemitism and Intolerance".
>
>In February 1996, 90 organisations from 40 European countries met during
>UNITED's Conference in Prague.
>They confirmed to organise and mobilize for the Week. Many other
>organisations throughout Europe have already joined and have sent
>information on their actions. More information will be collected
>permanently.
>UNITED, which distributes 30.000 posters for the campain, will serve as an
>information and coordination point for the activities.
>
>There will be 2 mass demonstrations in Bruxelles (B) and Amsterdam (NL),
>other manifestations will be held in Helsinki (SF), Berlin (D), Luxemburg,
>St. Petersburg (RUS) and many other places.
>
>Hundreds of other actions will take place in many European countries, such
>as school weeks, festivals, demonstrations, radio series, torchlight
>marches, public debates, discussions, conferences, film presentations,
>intercultural meetings, multicultural days, university activities,
>seminars, memorial.
I live in Denmark, and I have not heard anything of the these activities
from the massmedia.
In this country you do not have these anti-racist rallies any more,
because fewer and fewer attended. People are just fed up with the multiethnic
society and all the propaganda and unconstitutional repression in order
to make it "acceptable". Recently an opinion poll in a newspaper showed
that more than 70 per cent of the Danish population do not want the
multiethnic society in the first place. Multiracialism sucks and stinks.
Ole Kreiberg
--
From olk@login.dknet.dk Fri Mar 29 17:03:24 PST 1996
Article: 28475 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!sgigate.sgi.com!nntp.coast.net!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news99.sunet.se!cph-1.news.DK.net!dkuug!dknet!usenet
From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: True Hate Propaganda
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 21:07:24 +0100
Organization: DKnet / EUnet Denmark - Login Tjenesten
Lines: 28
Message-ID:
References: <199603232049.PAA02685@lucid.idirect.com> <199603242200.QAA84613@orion.it.luc.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: login.dknet.dk
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:28475 soc.culture.jewish:39264
In article <199603242200.QAA84613@orion.it.luc.edu>, Jason Silverman wrote:
>I think
>reasonable people would agree here, and I doubt that "the Jews" or any
>other group, are holding all Europeans responsible in the sense that you
>seem to think they are.
>
I am glad to hear that. The fact is that none of the European countries
wanted to be occupied by Nazi-Germany or any one else in the first place.
Therefore today they do not want to be identified with the acts of their
former enemy.
A pilot does not want to have his plane hijacked, but if it happens
he has to "cooperate", and even if some of the passengers are killed by the
hijackers, he has absolutely no reason to feel guilty. I think whatever the
Germans did or did not do during WW2, only they and nobody else are
responsible.
During the Vietnam war the Americans commited several atrocities such as
the My Lai massacre. Denmark was a Nato-ally of the USA, but did not
participated in that war, so therefore Denmark does not have to feel any
guilt. Only the Americans can be responsible for their own acts.
Satre as you were referring to was nothing but a racist who hated his own
race.
Ole Kreiberg
--
From olk@login.dknet.dk Fri Mar 29 17:03:24 PST 1996
Article: 28641 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!nic.ott.hookup.net!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!lade.news.pipex.net!pipex!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news99.sunet.se!cph-1.news.DK.net!dkuug!dknet!usenet
From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: True Hate Propaganda
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 21:47:28 +0100
Organization: DKnet / EUnet Denmark - Login Tjenesten
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <0MSMnOev1WWE065yn@login.dknet.dk>
References: <4j7j1n$dj3@news.enter.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: login.dknet.dk
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:28641 soc.culture.jewish:39503
In article <4j7j1n$dj3@news.enter.net>, Yale F. Edeiken wrote:
>> olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) writes:
>> In article <4j56vk$5u0@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, FreshAgain wrote:
>>
>> No, sometimes the Jews and even the Gentile Americans speak about the
>> second world war as "Europe" fighting nazism. It was not an ideological
>> war (except on the Eastern front). It was a war between nations.
>
>Churchill didn't think so.
Well, I think that the British and the French regarded WW2 rather as a
continuation of WW1.
>Roosevelt didn't think so.
USA did not enter the war before US territory and navy was attacked by
expanding Japan, the ally of Germany. On the background of what happened
at Pearl Harbour it must have been obvious that the Americans regarded
the German expansion as a potential threat to the USA.
>Only a nazi like you claims otherwise.
>
> --YFE
Why do you continue to call me a nazi? This is nothing but an evil libel,
and you know it. In Denmark I could sue you for libel and easily win. What
instances could you present to the court to support your allegation? Have I
ever advocated dictatorship, militarism etc..
I am a Danish patriot, and I am not more radical than e.g. "right-winged"
Israelies. Can you prove that I am more radical than e.g. members of the
Kach-party in Israel? Furthermore remember a large part of those who formed
the Danish resistance during the WW2 were national conservatives.
The members of the resistance referred to themselves a Danish patriots.
Ole Kreiberg
--
From olk@login.dknet.dk Fri Mar 29 17:03:25 PST 1996
Article: 28936 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!xmission!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!newshub.csu.net!csulb.edu!drivel.ics.uci.edu!news.service.uci.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news99.sunet.se!cph-1.news.DK.net!dkuug!dknet!usenet
From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: True Hate Propaganda
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 20:38:03 +0100
Organization: DKnet / EUnet Denmark - Login Tjenesten
Lines: 131
Message-ID:
References: <4j7igl$rv2@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: login.dknet.dk
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:28936 soc.culture.jewish:39786
In article <4j7igl$rv2@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, FreshAgain wrote:
>>OK: Ole Kreiberg
>>AM: Andrew Mathis
>>
>>OK:> Sometimes the treatment of the Jews by the Germans during WW2 is
>>>represented as something the whole of Europe is "responsible" for.
>>>
>>>AM: You mean they weren't? OK, yes there were MANY, MANY righteous
>>>gentiles who risked life and limb to save Jewish lives. But for the
>most
>>>part? Europe stood and watched--many with glee.
>>
>>OK: What do you mean by "Europe"? Europe is the name of a continent. As
>a
>>Dane I have as little in common with a German or Frenchman, as I have
>with
>>an American or New Zealander. A common European identity exists only
>>in the fantasies of certain Americans. As a racist idea perhaps.
>>
>>AM: Lemme get this straight--you're calling ME a racist? YOU? HAHHAHAH!
>>Look, Ole, you introduced the idea of "the whole of Europe", not me.
>
>OK: No, sometimes the Jews and even the Gentile Americans speak about the
>second world war as "Europe" fighting nazism. It was not an ideological
>war (except on the Eastern front). It was a war between nations. It was a
>war between Germany and other Great Powers. It was a war between nations.
>Small countries like Denmark, Norway and Sweden were only interested in
>staying out. Unfortunately Denmark and Norway were placed geographically
>in military strategical important areas and were therefore occupied by the
>
>Germans. The Germans never tried to nazify Denmark.
>
>
>AM: No, Ole. WWII was NEVER an ideological war. It was about two things:
>1) Lebensraum; 2) Jew-hatred.
This is of course how it looks from a Jewish point of view. Seen from
the point of view of most Non-German and Non-Jewish Europeans, WW2 was the
aggresive attempts of Germany to become the strongest and mightiest country
not only in Europe but in the whole world by military means. This did of
course strongly conflict with the interests of other European countries.
If Germany had stayed within it's border nobody would have bothered about
it's ideology. The Nazi-German ally General Franco continued to rule in
Spain decades after the war and nobody really cared, because he was not
agressive to other European countries.
>>
>>OK: By the way, where were "Europe" when million of people died in
>>Soviet
>>prison camps? Remember more people died in communist camps than in
>>nazi-camps. Why is it okay to forget the victims of communism but not
>>the victims of nazism? Why is it worse to kill people on account of race
>>than of political views or social group (like the kulaks)?
>>
>>AM: For one thing, race is not something you choose, but that's beside
>the
>>point. Look, Ole, everyone knows that Stalin killed more people than
>>Hitler, but Hitler went out of his way to kill Jews, invading lands he
>had
>>no idea of ever inhabiting with German people, just to get at their Jews.
>
>>Get it?
>
>OK: This is not true. He invaded lands to the east to get "Lebensraum"
>which
>meant to expand Germany. He also wanted to break the neck on communism
>once
>and for all. The Jewish question was just a side issue.
>
>AM: Read *Mein Kampf* for starts. THen realize that Der Fuhrer himself
>said the war was "a war against the Jews." Expansion to the East was for
>Lebensraum. Why invade Hungary, Rumania, Greece then, if not just to get
>Jews?
He did not invade a single country just to get the Jews. He only did
so of either military strategical reasons or to get "Lebensraum".
>
>>
>>OK: >Hitler said several times that national socialism
>>>knows only Germany and is not meant for export.
>>>
>>>AM: Right. That would explain all those puppet gov'ts he propped up and
>>>all those countries he invaded. Does the name Quisling ring a bell?
>Was
>>>he a German?
>>
>>OK: The legal Norvegian government, in contrary to the Danish
>>government,
>>chickened out and ran away leaving the hapless Norvegian people in the
>>hands
>>of the Germans. As there was no legal government any longer, the Germans
>>appointed one which they considered loyal to themselves and not the
>>Norvegian people. Without the German occupational army Quisling would
>>never
>>have had a chance. Trying to blame the Norvegian people for Quisling is a
>>great insult to those Norvegian old enough to remember WW2.
>>
>>AM: Nice try. I don't blame the Norwegian people; I blame Hitler, who
>you
>>claimed didn't try to export Nazism. I bring up Quisling, and all of a
>>sudden I had the Norse. You are a twisted guy.
>
>OK: The Norvegian Nazis were the only ones interested in cooperating with
>the
>Germans. All the other politicians had fled. In Denmark a coalition
>government composed of all the parties in parliament except the tiny
>Danish
>Nazi party was formed with the political agenda to secure the independence
>
>and formal neutrality of Denmark in spite of difficult circumstances. This
>
>meant keeping all Nazi-features out inclusive hostility to Jews. That it
>is
>why no actions were taken against the Jews by the Germans before the
>Danish
>government resigned in August 1943 and the formal neutrality thereby
>abandoned. The German action against the Jews came in October 1943.
>
>AM: Your point being . . . ?
My point is that it was due to the courage of the Danish government to
remain and assert their constitutional right, that it as a side-effect
was possible for the Danish Jews to choose between going to Sweden or to
Theresienstadt. The only option for the Jews in Holland and Norway, where
the legal government had fled, was places like Auschwitz. If it really had
been so important for the Germans to apprehend the Danish Jews they could
easily have done so.
Ole Kreiberg
--
From olk@login.dknet.dk Sun Mar 31 09:13:16 PST 1996
Article: 29085 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!jussieu.fr!oleane!plug.news.pipex.net!pipex!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!swrinde!gatech!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news99.sunet.se!cph-1.news.DK.net!dkuug!dknet!usenet
From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: True Hate Propaganda
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 20:01:06 +0100
Organization: DKnet / EUnet Denmark - Login Tjenesten
Lines: 49
Message-ID:
References: <199603232049.PAA02685@lucid.idirect.com> <199603242200.QAA84613@orion.it.luc.edu> <4j9t58$kbd@news.nyu.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: login.dknet.dk
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:29085 soc.culture.jewish:39949
In article <4j9t58$kbd@news.nyu.edu>, Jeremy A. Litt wrote:
>Ole Kreiberg (olk@login.dknet.dk) wrote:
>: In article <199603242200.QAA84613@orion.it.luc.edu>, Jason Silverman wrote:
>
>: >I think
>: >reasonable people would agree here, and I doubt that "the Jews" or any
>: >other group, are holding all Europeans responsible in the sense that you
>: >seem to think they are.
>: >
>: I am glad to hear that. The fact is that none of the European countries
>: wanted to be occupied by Nazi-Germany or any one else in the first place.
>: Therefore today they do not want to be identified with the acts of their
>: former enemy.
>
>On the other hand, those that cooperated with the Nazis cannot be
>absolved of guilt because others in their country did not so cooperate.
But they can only be considered guilty as individuals. Like if somebody
>from Denmark moves to the USA and commits severe crimes only the criminal
not the country will considered guilty.
In the USA the crime-rate among young Blacks is very high - so high that
there are more young Blacks in prison than at college. However this does
not make those Blacks that never are involved with crime "guilty". In the
USA there are more than 20 times as many murders per capita as in Denmark.
This does not justify me calling Americans more violent and murderous than
the Danes. Most Americans go through life without murdering anyone and end
up dying from other causes than murder. Therefore I think that it is very
biased to try to stereotype all Europeans during WW2 to be like the
German nazis.
>
>: During the Vietnam war the Americans commited several atrocities such as
>: the My Lai massacre. Denmark was a Nato-ally of the USA, but did not
>: participated in that war, so therefore Denmark does not have to feel any
>: guilt. Only the Americans can be responsible for their own acts.
>
>Uh-huh. But when the French police started rounding up Jews, do you
>think your analogy still would hold together? IS active participation
>the same as "not participated"?
>
Did French police know anything of what was going to happen to them in
the German concentration-camps? I guess not. The police usually go out to
arrest those people their superiors order them to do without asking any
questions about the possible culpability. They leave that to courts etc.
Ole Kreiberg
--
From olk@login.dknet.dk Sun Mar 31 09:13:16 PST 1996
Article: 29086 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!jussieu.fr!oleane!plug.news.pipex.net!pipex!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news99.sunet.se!cph-1.news.DK.net!dkuug!dknet!usenet
From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: True Hate Propaganda
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 20:30:54 +0100
Organization: DKnet / EUnet Denmark - Login Tjenesten
Lines: 50
Message-ID:
References:
NNTP-Posting-Host: login.dknet.dk
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:29086 soc.culture.jewish:39950
In article , Sara aka Perrrfect wrote:
>In article , olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole
>Kreiberg) wrote:
>
>> Sometimes the treatment of the Jews by the Germans during WW2 is
>> represented as something the whole of Europe is "responsible" for.
>> This is certainly an insult to the older generation in countries like
>> Denmark and France who saw their countries being invaded by their
>> ancient old enemy. Hitler said several times that national socialism
>> knows only Germany and is not meant for export. How can other countries
>> than Germany be responsible for acts ordered by the Nazi-German government?
>>
>> Therefore it bothers me that some Jews are trying to blame the
>> whole of Europe for what the Germans did or did not do to the Jews
>> during WW2. This is true hate propaganda against the Europeans.
>>
>
>Please back up this bizarre assertion with some facts.
>
>WHO says the treatment of the Jews by the Germans during WW2 is something
>the whole of Europe is responsible for? I have NEVER heard this fromm
>ANYone, Jew or otherwise.
>
>WHERE did you get this?
>
>Who are the "some Jews" trying to blame the whole of Europe?
>
>Please identify them. By name and statement.
>
>Waiting....
>
>Sara
>
In connection with the civil war in the former Yugoslavia several Jewish
American organisations have made noise about that the whole of Europe some
how is responsible for that civil war or at least to stop it (I cannot
understand why "Europe" would be more responsible for that civil war than
the USA was for Vietnamese civil war or the Soviet Union for the civil war
in Afghanistan). Then they refer to WW2 as the time when "Europe" fought
nazism, and that it is was "Europe" which let the Germans do this and that
to the Jews. They attempt to place acts in the former Yugoslavia on equal
footing with acts of Nazi-Germany. This has been repeated many times in the
massmedia. Exactly where the massmedia has their allegations from I am not
so sure. You better ask them.
Ole Kreiberg
--
From olk@login.dknet.dk Sun Mar 31 09:13:17 PST 1996
Article: 29174 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dish.news.pipex.net!pipex!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news99.sunet.se!cph-1.news.DK.net!dkuug!dknet!usenet
From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: True Hate Propaganda
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 21:08:19 +0100
Organization: DKnet / EUnet Denmark - Login Tjenesten
Lines: 51
Message-ID:
References: <0MSMnOev1WWE065yn@login.dknet.dk> <4jda1c$ku8@news.enter.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: login.dknet.dk
In article <4jda1c$ku8@news.enter.net>, Yale F. Edeiken wrote:
>
> No I can prove you're a nazi.
So please do it right now.
>I wonder what a jury of Danes would
>think of your defamatory comments on those who saved the Jews of Denmark.
Everything I wrote was based on facts which can be backed up with source
material from the Record Office. I can see no defamation. I have already had
had two letters to the editor printed about this in two different newspapers,
and there was only little negative response.
>Or your lies about the nazi occupation of your country.
Hm lies? Try to point out a lie.
>Or your suggestion that
>armed band of vigilantes should round up foreigners and throw them into
>concentration camps.
I did not talk about concentration camps but rather transit-camps,
which the inmates were free to leave anytime to go anywhere (except back to
Denmark). Not all foreigners are supposed to leave. Only those with the
roots in the third world. Opinion polls have shown that more than 70 per cent
of the Danish population do not want the multi-ethnic society in the first
place. Give the people what the people wants.
>Or you outright anti-Semitism.
To you and many other Jews anti-Semitism is an epithet you label on
everyone who dares critize the Jews or comes across their interests.
>Or your enthusiatic embrace of nazi race science.
I have just embraced *general* racial science.
>Or your advocacy of nazi groups in the United
>States.
>
> Sorry, nazi-boy, you're a nazi.
>
> --YFE
Only Germans can be true nazis.
Ole Kreiberg
--
From olk@login.dknet.dk Sun Mar 31 09:13:18 PST 1996
Article: 29217 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!solaris.cc.vt.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news99.sunet.se!cph-1.news.DK.net!dkuug!dknet!usenet
From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: True Hate Propaganda
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 1996 22:08:47 +0100
Organization: DKnet / EUnet Denmark - Login Tjenesten
Lines: 106
Message-ID:
References: <4jfgk6$mfh@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: login.dknet.dk
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:29217 soc.culture.jewish:40070
In article <4jfgk6$mfh@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, FreshAgain wrote:
>>>OK: Ole Kreiberg
>>>AM: Andrew Mathis
>
>OK: Seen from
>the point of view of most Non-German and Non-Jewish Europeans, WW2 was the
>
>aggresive attempts of Germany to become the strongest and mightiest
>country
>not only in Europe but in the whole world by military means. This did of
>course strongly conflict with the interests of other European countries.
>If Germany had stayed within it's border nobody would have bothered about
>it's ideology. The Nazi-German ally General Franco continued to rule in
>Spain decades after the war and nobody really cared, because he was not
>agressive to other European countries.
>
>AM: Except Portugal and his own Basque inhabitants. BTW, Spain was
>neutral during the war, and not an Axis member or ally.
Spain dispatched the socalled Azur division to fight together with the
Germany on the eastern front. During the Spanish civil war Germany and
Italy helped general Franco militarily. Does the name Guernica ring a Bell?
(Guernica was bombed together with other Spanish cities by German Luftwaffe).
Franco was no visionary like Hitler and he was smart enough to become as
little involved with the war as possible.
>>AM: Read *Mein Kampf* for starts. THen realize that Der Fuhrer himself
>>said the war was "a war against the Jews." Expansion to the East was for
>>Lebensraum. Why invade Hungary, Rumania, Greece then, if not just to get
>>Jews?
>
>OK: He did not invade a single country just to get the Jews. He only did
>so of either military strategical reasons or to get "Lebensraum".
>
>AM: Good argument!! Like it!! Can I quote you? My friend, or should I
>say Mein freunde, what is the strategic importance of Romania? Maybe I
>should ask Elie Wiesel? He was deported there to Auschwitz, where his
>whole family died. Whoops, I forgot--he's a fiction writer.
Romania was one of few countries in Europe with oil deposits.
The availability of these deposit was of utmost importance for Germany.
Romania was an ally of Germany and participated in the war on the eastern
front.
>>AM: Your point being . . . ?
>
>OK: My point is that it was due to the courage of the Danish government to
>
>remain and assert their constitutional right, that it as a side-effect
>was possible for the Danish Jews to choose between going to Sweden or to
>Theresienstadt.
>
>AM: This is pure b.s. on two levels: 1) Jews rarely had a choice about
>where they were going to go;
Well in Denmark they had. Those who did not escape to Sweden were sent to
Theresienstadt (around 400). The reason why the latter group did not go to
Sweden was that they did not believe that the Germans really wanted to
round them up. Everything was so quiet in Denmark.
>2) Theresienstadt was a "showplace" camp for
>WWI veteran Jews, wealthy (as in very wealthy) German Jews, and Jews with
>British or American relatives. It was the only camp Eichmann let the Red
>Cross actually see. But even then, its inhabitants eventually went to one
>of the six death centers in occupied Poland.
None of the Danish Jews were tranferred from Theresienstadt to camps
in Poland and only 23 of them died in Theresienstadt.
>
>OK: If it really had
>been so important for the Germans to apprehend the Danish Jews they could
>easily have done so.
>
>AM: Ole, you're far less intelligent than the average Dane, apparently.
>They SNUCK the Jews out in the still of night, on little fishing boats,
>and sailed them over to Sweden. Those who didn't get out were hidden at
>the risk of Gentile lives.
This is not true. No Jews were hidden by Gentiles for longer periods.
They either went to Sweden or got caught. However Jews older than 60 years
and Jews married to Gentiles were not supposed to go to
concentration-camps. Neither were half-breeds and quarter-breeds.
These were the conditions in Denmark. I am of course fully aware that the
German policy was harsher elsewhere.
>There is a woman on this newsgroup whose
>husband survived the Nazi occupation of Denmark. She is my godmother, but
>I won't ask her to speak out for her own privacy and her husband's peace
>of mind.
>
>If you don't think it was a primary objective of Hitler's to rid Europe of
>Jews, then you are deaf, blind, and extremely dumb.
The primary objective of Hitler was to make Germany the strongest country
in Europe and the world. The Jews were regarded one of the obstacles in the
way to attain this goal.
>
>BTW, why is this cross-posted to alt.revisionism?
Everything which has to do with the Jews during WW2 is of course relevant to
alt.revisionism.
Ole Kreiberg
--
From olk@login.dknet.dk Sun Mar 31 14:07:57 PST 1996
Article: 38812 of soc.culture.jewish
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!lade.news.pipex.net!pipex!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news99.sunet.se!cph-1.news.DK.net!dkuug!dknet!usenet
From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: True Hate Propaganda
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 13:19:12 +0100
Organization: DKnet / EUnet Denmark - Login Tjenesten
Lines: 15
Message-ID:
NNTP-Posting-Host: login.dknet.dk
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:28098 soc.culture.jewish:38812
Sometimes the treatment of the Jews by the Germans during WW2 is
represented as something the whole of Europe is "responsible" for.
This is certainly an insult to the older generation in countries like
Denmark and France who saw their countries being invaded by their
ancient old enemy. Hitler said several times that national socialism
knows only Germany and is not meant for export. How can other countries
than Germany be responsible for acts ordered by the Nazi-German government?
Therefore it bothers me that some Jews are trying to blame the
whole of Europe for what the Germans did or did not do to the Jews
during WW2. This is true hate propaganda against the Europeans.
Ole Kreiberg.
--
From olk@login.dknet.dk Sun Mar 31 14:07:58 PST 1996
Article: 38881 of soc.culture.jewish
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!sgigate.sgi.com!nntp.coast.net!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news99.sunet.se!cph-1.news.DK.net!dkuug!dknet!usenet
From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: True Hate Propaganda
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 13:44:30 +0100
Organization: DKnet / EUnet Denmark - Login Tjenesten
Lines: 40
Message-ID:
References: <199603232049.PAA02685@lucid.idirect.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: login.dknet.dk
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:28155 soc.culture.jewish:38881
In article <199603232049.PAA02685@lucid.idirect.com>, NaziHunter wrote:
>In article , olk@login.dknet.dk says...
>>
>> Sometimes the treatment of the Jews by the Germans during WW2 is
>>represented as something the whole of Europe is "responsible" for.
>>This is certainly an insult to the older generation in countries like
>>Denmark and France who saw their countries being invaded by their
>>ancient old enemy. Hitler said several times that national socialism
>>knows only Germany and is not meant for export. How can other countries
>>than Germany be responsible for acts ordered by the Nazi-German government?
>>
>>Therefore it bothers me that some Jews are trying to blame the
>>whole of Europe for what the Germans did or did not do to the Jews
>>during WW2. This is true hate propaganda against the Europeans.
>>
>>
>>Ole Kreiberg.
>>--
>
>So sorry to disabuse you of your delusions, but, since you mention France, are
>you aware that the French Nationa Police actively aided the Gestapo in rounding
>up Jews for deportation.? They were rather good at it, too.
The French police only cooperated because the French nation had German
guns in it's backs. It is like when an aeroplane is hijacked, the pilot and
the crew obey the orders the Hijackers. This does not make them an accessary
in the crime.
>The Danes, on the other hand, refused to cooperate with any Nazi persecution of
>the Jews.
In eyes of the Danes Germany was an eternal ugly old enemy whose
interests they was never very keen to serve. Even today the Danes dislike
the Germans and their rotten European Union (often nicknamed "Neuropa").
>From times immemorial Germany has been like an evil shadow over Denmark.
Ole Kreiberg
--
From olk@login.dknet.dk Sun Mar 31 14:07:58 PST 1996
Article: 39000 of soc.culture.jewish
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.coast.net!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news99.sunet.se!cph-1.news.DK.net!dkuug!dknet!usenet
From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: True Hate Propaganda
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 21:48:47 +0100
Organization: DKnet / EUnet Denmark - Login Tjenesten
Lines: 119
Message-ID:
References: <8YRLnOev10PQ065yn@login.dknet.dk> <4j56vk$5u0@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: login.dknet.dk
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:28258 soc.culture.jewish:39000
In article <4j56vk$5u0@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, FreshAgain wrote:
>OK: Ole Kreiberg
>AM: Andrew Mathis
>
>OK:> Sometimes the treatment of the Jews by the Germans during WW2 is
>>represented as something the whole of Europe is "responsible" for.
>>
>>AM: You mean they weren't? OK, yes there were MANY, MANY righteous
>>gentiles who risked life and limb to save Jewish lives. But for the most
>>part? Europe stood and watched--many with glee.
>
>OK: What do you mean by "Europe"? Europe is the name of a continent. As a
>Dane I have as little in common with a German or Frenchman, as I have with
>an American or New Zealander. A common European identity exists only
>in the fantasies of certain Americans. As a racist idea perhaps.
>
>AM: Lemme get this straight--you're calling ME a racist? YOU? HAHHAHAH!
>Look, Ole, you introduced the idea of "the whole of Europe", not me.
No, sometimes the Jews and even the Gentile Americans speak about the
second world war as "Europe" fighting nazism. It was not an ideological
war (except on the Eastern front). It was a war between nations. It was a
war between Germany and other Great Powers. It was a war between nations.
Small countries like Denmark, Norway and Sweden were only interested in
staying out. Unfortunately Denmark and Norway were placed geographically
in military strategical important areas and were therefore occupied by the
Germans. The Germans never tried to nazify Denmark.
>
>OK: By they way, where were "Europe" when million of people died in
>Soviet
>prison camps? Remember more people died in communist camps than in
>nazi-camps. Why is it okay to forget the victims of communism but not
>the victims of nazism? Why is it worse to kill people on account of race
>than of political views or social group (like the kulaks)?
>
>AM: For one thing, race is not something you choose, but that's beside the
>point. Look, Ole, everyone knows that Stalin killed more people than
>Hitler, but Hitler went out of his way to kill Jews, invading lands he had
>no idea of ever inhabiting with German people, just to get at their Jews.
>Get it?
This is not true. He invaded lands to the east to get "Lebensraum" which
meant to expand Germany. He also wanted to brake the neck on communism once
and for all. The Jewish question was just a side issue.
>
>OK: >Hitler said several times that national socialism
>>knows only Germany and is not meant for export.
>>
>>AM: Right. That would explain all those puppet gov'ts he propped up and
>>all those countries he invaded. Does the name Quisling ring a bell? Was
>>he a German?
>
>OK: The legal Norvegian government, in contrary to the Danish
>government,
>chickened out and ran away leaving the hapless Norvegian people in the
>hands
>of the Germans. As there was no legal government any longer, the Germans
>appointed one which they considered loyal to themselves and not the
>Norvegian people. Without the German occupational army Quisling would
>never
>have had a chance. Trying to blame the Norvegian people for Quisling is a
>great insult to those Norvegian old enough to remember WW2.
>
>AM: Nice try. I don't blame the Norwegian people; I blame Hitler, who you
>claimed didn't try to export Nazism. I bring up Quisling, and all of a
>sudden I had the Norse. You are a twisted guy.
The Norvegian Nazis were the only ones interested in cooperating with the
Germans. All the other politicians had fled. In Denmark a coalition
government composed of all the parties in parliament except the tiny Danish
Nazi party was formed with the political agenda to secure the independence
and formal neutrality of Denmark in spite of difficult circumstances. This
meant keeping all Nazi-features out inclusive hostility to Jews. That it is
why no actions were taken against the Jews by the Germans before the Danish
government resigned in August 1943 and the formal neutrality thereby
abandoned. The German action against the Jews came in October 1943.
>OK: >How can other countries
>>than Germany be responsible for acts ordered by the Nazi-German
>>government?
>>
>>AM: They helped. Specifically in countries like France and Poland.
>
>OK: It is an even bigger insult to the Polish people than to the
>Norvegian to
>be identified with nazism. Poland was the country which suffered most
>because of the Germans. The nazi ideology was quite hostile to Slavic
>people such as the Poles.
>
>AM: And the Poles were too antisemitic to care. They LOVED that Hitler
>deported all their Jews to camps. LOVED IT.
But they still hated their arch enemy, Germany, and the nazi ideology
was still very harsh to the Poles.
Poland was that country in Europe where the largest part of the population
was Jewish, while the opposite was the case in Denmark. This explains the
difference in attitudes.
>>
>OK: >Therefore it bothers me that some Jews are trying to blame the
>>whole of Europe for what the Germans did or did not do to the Jews
>>during WW2.
>>
>>AM: Let's see: rape, murder, theft--what did the Germans NOT do to the
>>Jews during the war?
>
>OK: Gee, I have never heard that the Germans raped Jews.
>
>AM: Yes, even though it was against German law, rape was common. Often
>inside synagogues. Gosh, the Germans are so civilized!
Yes such acts would certainly be against the Nuremberg laws, which
prohibited sexual connections between Gentiles and Jews.
Ole Kreiberg
--
From olk@login.dknet.dk Sun Mar 31 14:07:59 PST 1996
Article: 39106 of soc.culture.jewish
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!xmission!news.uoregon.edu!news.corpcomm.net!news.pe.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news99.sunet.se!cph-1.news.DK.net!dkuug!dknet!usenet
From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: True Hate Propaganda
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 20:03:04 +0100
Organization: DKnet / EUnet Denmark - Login Tjenesten
Lines: 80
Message-ID: <8YRLnOev10PQ065yn@login.dknet.dk>
References: <4j1g5q$r9l@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: login.dknet.dk
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:28350 soc.culture.jewish:39106
In article <4j1g5q$r9l@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, FreshAgain wrote:
> Sometimes the treatment of the Jews by the Germans during WW2 is
>represented as something the whole of Europe is "responsible" for.
>
>AM: You mean they weren't? OK, yes there were MANY, MANY righteous
>gentiles who risked life and limb to save Jewish lives. But for the most
>part? Europe stood and watched--many with glee.
What do you mean by "Europe"? Europe is the name of a continent. As a
Dane I have as little in common with a German or Frenchman, as I have with
an American or New Zealander. A common European identity exists only
in the fantasies of certain Americans. As a racist idea perhaps.
What did the Swedes do to the Jews during WW2? Didn't they agree to receive
all the Jews coming from Denmark? And what about Switzerland? How many
Englishmen and members of resistence in the occupied countries did sacrify
their lives against the German enemy. How dare you spit on their graves
and memories?
By they way, where were "Europe" when million of people died in Soviet
prison camps? Remember more people died in communist camps than in
nazi-camps. Why is it okay to forget the victims of communism but not
the victims of nazism? Why is it worse to kill people on account of race
than of political views or social group (like the kulaks)?
>
>This is certainly an insult to the older generation in countries like
>Denmark and France who saw their countries being invaded by their
>ancient old enemy.
>
>AM: Poor France. They've been conquered so often lately,
So when? In the first World War they succeded in keeping the Germans back.
I think that the Germans could have been a little better as soldiers. So
they might have had a problem there.
>Hitler said several times that national socialism
>knows only Germany and is not meant for export.
>
>AM: Right. That would explain all those puppet gov'ts he propped up and
>all those countries he invaded. Does the name Quisling ring a bell? Was
>he a German?
The legal Norvegian government, in contrary to the Danish government,
chickened out and ran away leaving the hapless Norvegian people in the hands
of the Germans. As there was no legal government any longer, the Germans
appointed one which they considered loyal to themselves and not the
Norvegian people. Without the German occupational army Quisling would never
have had a chance. Trying to blame the Norvegian people for Quisling is a
great insult to those Norvegian old enough to remember WW2.
>How can other countries
>than Germany be responsible for acts ordered by the Nazi-German
>government?
>
>AM: They helped. Specifically in countries like France and Poland.
It is an even bigger insult to the Polish people than to the Norvegian to
be identified with nazism. Poland was the country which suffered most
because of the Germans. The nazi ideology was quite hostile to Slavic
people such as the Poles.
>Denmark was another story. They were remarkable folks to the Jews during
>the war. It's surprising to hear such dross from a Danish mouth.
I think I am going to puke. Remarkable folks. Bah, bullshit.
>
>Therefore it bothers me that some Jews are trying to blame the
>whole of Europe for what the Germans did or did not do to the Jews
>during WW2.
>
>AM: Let's see: rape, murder, theft--what did the Germans NOT do to the
>Jews during the war?
Gee, I have never heard that the Germans raped Jews.
Ole Kreiberg
--
From olk@login.dknet.dk Sun Mar 31 14:08:00 PST 1996
Article: 39264 of soc.culture.jewish
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!sgigate.sgi.com!nntp.coast.net!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news99.sunet.se!cph-1.news.DK.net!dkuug!dknet!usenet
From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: True Hate Propaganda
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 21:07:24 +0100
Organization: DKnet / EUnet Denmark - Login Tjenesten
Lines: 28
Message-ID:
References: <199603232049.PAA02685@lucid.idirect.com> <199603242200.QAA84613@orion.it.luc.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: login.dknet.dk
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:28475 soc.culture.jewish:39264
In article <199603242200.QAA84613@orion.it.luc.edu>, Jason Silverman wrote:
>I think
>reasonable people would agree here, and I doubt that "the Jews" or any
>other group, are holding all Europeans responsible in the sense that you
>seem to think they are.
>
I am glad to hear that. The fact is that none of the European countries
wanted to be occupied by Nazi-Germany or any one else in the first place.
Therefore today they do not want to be identified with the acts of their
former enemy.
A pilot does not want to have his plane hijacked, but if it happens
he has to "cooperate", and even if some of the passengers are killed by the
hijackers, he has absolutely no reason to feel guilty. I think whatever the
Germans did or did not do during WW2, only they and nobody else are
responsible.
During the Vietnam war the Americans commited several atrocities such as
the My Lai massacre. Denmark was a Nato-ally of the USA, but did not
participated in that war, so therefore Denmark does not have to feel any
guilt. Only the Americans can be responsible for their own acts.
Satre as you were referring to was nothing but a racist who hated his own
race.
Ole Kreiberg
--
From olk@login.dknet.dk Sun Mar 31 14:08:01 PST 1996
Article: 39503 of soc.culture.jewish
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!nic.ott.hookup.net!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!lade.news.pipex.net!pipex!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news99.sunet.se!cph-1.news.DK.net!dkuug!dknet!usenet
From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: True Hate Propaganda
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 21:47:28 +0100
Organization: DKnet / EUnet Denmark - Login Tjenesten
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <0MSMnOev1WWE065yn@login.dknet.dk>
References: <4j7j1n$dj3@news.enter.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: login.dknet.dk
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:28641 soc.culture.jewish:39503
In article <4j7j1n$dj3@news.enter.net>, Yale F. Edeiken wrote:
>> olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) writes:
>> In article <4j56vk$5u0@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, FreshAgain wrote:
>>
>> No, sometimes the Jews and even the Gentile Americans speak about the
>> second world war as "Europe" fighting nazism. It was not an ideological
>> war (except on the Eastern front). It was a war between nations.
>
>Churchill didn't think so.
Well, I think that the British and the French regarded WW2 rather as a
continuation of WW1.
>Roosevelt didn't think so.
USA did not enter the war before US territory and navy was attacked by
expanding Japan, the ally of Germany. On the background of what happened
at Pearl Harbour it must have been obvious that the Americans regarded
the German expansion as a potential threat to the USA.
>Only a nazi like you claims otherwise.
>
> --YFE
Why do you continue to call me a nazi? This is nothing but an evil libel,
and you know it. In Denmark I could sue you for libel and easily win. What
instances could you present to the court to support your allegation? Have I
ever advocated dictatorship, militarism etc..
I am a Danish patriot, and I am not more radical than e.g. "right-winged"
Israelies. Can you prove that I am more radical than e.g. members of the
Kach-party in Israel? Furthermore remember a large part of those who formed
the Danish resistance during the WW2 were national conservatives.
The members of the resistance referred to themselves a Danish patriots.
Ole Kreiberg
--
From olk@login.dknet.dk Sun Mar 31 14:08:02 PST 1996
Article: 39786 of soc.culture.jewish
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!xmission!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!newshub.csu.net!csulb.edu!drivel.ics.uci.edu!news.service.uci.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news99.sunet.se!cph-1.news.DK.net!dkuug!dknet!usenet
From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: True Hate Propaganda
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 20:38:03 +0100
Organization: DKnet / EUnet Denmark - Login Tjenesten
Lines: 131
Message-ID:
References: <4j7igl$rv2@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: login.dknet.dk
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:28936 soc.culture.jewish:39786
In article <4j7igl$rv2@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, FreshAgain wrote:
>>OK: Ole Kreiberg
>>AM: Andrew Mathis
>>
>>OK:> Sometimes the treatment of the Jews by the Germans during WW2 is
>>>represented as something the whole of Europe is "responsible" for.
>>>
>>>AM: You mean they weren't? OK, yes there were MANY, MANY righteous
>>>gentiles who risked life and limb to save Jewish lives. But for the
>most
>>>part? Europe stood and watched--many with glee.
>>
>>OK: What do you mean by "Europe"? Europe is the name of a continent. As
>a
>>Dane I have as little in common with a German or Frenchman, as I have
>with
>>an American or New Zealander. A common European identity exists only
>>in the fantasies of certain Americans. As a racist idea perhaps.
>>
>>AM: Lemme get this straight--you're calling ME a racist? YOU? HAHHAHAH!
>>Look, Ole, you introduced the idea of "the whole of Europe", not me.
>
>OK: No, sometimes the Jews and even the Gentile Americans speak about the
>second world war as "Europe" fighting nazism. It was not an ideological
>war (except on the Eastern front). It was a war between nations. It was a
>war between Germany and other Great Powers. It was a war between nations.
>Small countries like Denmark, Norway and Sweden were only interested in
>staying out. Unfortunately Denmark and Norway were placed geographically
>in military strategical important areas and were therefore occupied by the
>
>Germans. The Germans never tried to nazify Denmark.
>
>
>AM: No, Ole. WWII was NEVER an ideological war. It was about two things:
>1) Lebensraum; 2) Jew-hatred.
This is of course how it looks from a Jewish point of view. Seen from
the point of view of most Non-German and Non-Jewish Europeans, WW2 was the
aggresive attempts of Germany to become the strongest and mightiest country
not only in Europe but in the whole world by military means. This did of
course strongly conflict with the interests of other European countries.
If Germany had stayed within it's border nobody would have bothered about
it's ideology. The Nazi-German ally General Franco continued to rule in
Spain decades after the war and nobody really cared, because he was not
agressive to other European countries.
>>
>>OK: By the way, where were "Europe" when million of people died in
>>Soviet
>>prison camps? Remember more people died in communist camps than in
>>nazi-camps. Why is it okay to forget the victims of communism but not
>>the victims of nazism? Why is it worse to kill people on account of race
>>than of political views or social group (like the kulaks)?
>>
>>AM: For one thing, race is not something you choose, but that's beside
>the
>>point. Look, Ole, everyone knows that Stalin killed more people than
>>Hitler, but Hitler went out of his way to kill Jews, invading lands he
>had
>>no idea of ever inhabiting with German people, just to get at their Jews.
>
>>Get it?
>
>OK: This is not true. He invaded lands to the east to get "Lebensraum"
>which
>meant to expand Germany. He also wanted to break the neck on communism
>once
>and for all. The Jewish question was just a side issue.
>
>AM: Read *Mein Kampf* for starts. THen realize that Der Fuhrer himself
>said the war was "a war against the Jews." Expansion to the East was for
>Lebensraum. Why invade Hungary, Rumania, Greece then, if not just to get
>Jews?
He did not invade a single country just to get the Jews. He only did
so of either military strategical reasons or to get "Lebensraum".
>
>>
>>OK: >Hitler said several times that national socialism
>>>knows only Germany and is not meant for export.
>>>
>>>AM: Right. That would explain all those puppet gov'ts he propped up and
>>>all those countries he invaded. Does the name Quisling ring a bell?
>Was
>>>he a German?
>>
>>OK: The legal Norvegian government, in contrary to the Danish
>>government,
>>chickened out and ran away leaving the hapless Norvegian people in the
>>hands
>>of the Germans. As there was no legal government any longer, the Germans
>>appointed one which they considered loyal to themselves and not the
>>Norvegian people. Without the German occupational army Quisling would
>>never
>>have had a chance. Trying to blame the Norvegian people for Quisling is a
>>great insult to those Norvegian old enough to remember WW2.
>>
>>AM: Nice try. I don't blame the Norwegian people; I blame Hitler, who
>you
>>claimed didn't try to export Nazism. I bring up Quisling, and all of a
>>sudden I had the Norse. You are a twisted guy.
>
>OK: The Norvegian Nazis were the only ones interested in cooperating with
>the
>Germans. All the other politicians had fled. In Denmark a coalition
>government composed of all the parties in parliament except the tiny
>Danish
>Nazi party was formed with the political agenda to secure the independence
>
>and formal neutrality of Denmark in spite of difficult circumstances. This
>
>meant keeping all Nazi-features out inclusive hostility to Jews. That it
>is
>why no actions were taken against the Jews by the Germans before the
>Danish
>government resigned in August 1943 and the formal neutrality thereby
>abandoned. The German action against the Jews came in October 1943.
>
>AM: Your point being . . . ?
My point is that it was due to the courage of the Danish government to
remain and assert their constitutional right, that it as a side-effect
was possible for the Danish Jews to choose between going to Sweden or to
Theresienstadt. The only option for the Jews in Holland and Norway, where
the legal government had fled, was places like Auschwitz. If it really had
been so important for the Germans to apprehend the Danish Jews they could
easily have done so.
Ole Kreiberg
--

This site is intended for educational purposes to teach about the Holocaust and
to combat hatred.
Any statements or excerpts found on this site are for educational purposes only.

As part of these educational purposes, Nizkor may
include on this website materials, such as excerpts from the writings of racists and antisemites. Far from approving these writings, Nizkor condemns them and
provides them so that its readers can learn the nature and extent of hate and antisemitic discourse. Nizkor urges the readers of these pages to condemn racist
and hate speech in all of its forms and manifestations.