If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

So which frames to start with?

Hello... New beek here. Well I will be this Spring once I start my hives. I will build my hives this Winter but buy the frames. I am seeing N style, J Style, whatever other style. How do you decide which style to go with?
And actually, I would consider making my own frames. I have a nicely equipped woodshop. But I am sure it will be very montonous work. But I'm thrifty too and prefer to make almost anything I can instead of buying it. Anyone out there make their own frames?

Re: So which frames to start with?

There are three major types of frames: Wedge with split or solid bottom bars, slotted frames, and grooved frames. The wedge style frames are nice for wired foundation since the wedge traps the top of the wires and holds them securely. Slotted tops are the easiest to use, just drop the foundation in. Grooved frames are a bit more fiddly, but work great with plastic foundation.

I make my frames as follows:

Find a nice 2 x something that is flat or very nearly flat. Cut to 19" lengths. Set table saw to cut the taper on the end, or 3/8" if you want a flat end to keep hive beetles out of the space (but the bees glue them down more). Cut both side across the end. Set fence to width (1 1/16" for standard frames, 7/8" for narrow frames) and rip the 2 x across the width. You end up with proper width sections with two tapers. Set the saw to exactly split these in half, should come out a bit less than 3/4". Cut dados on the ends to hold the end bars, exactly one inch from the inside of the dado to the end of the bar on both ends.

It really helps to have a band saw for this job, as it give you an extra bar out of a 2x6 or 2x8 and they will be a hair thicker too. You can use a narrow kerf blade on the table saw too, I do.

Of end bars, plane some 2 by stock down to 1 3/8" or 1 1/4" (standard or narrow bars) and cut to the correct length for whatever size you are making (deep, medium, shallow, Dadant deep, whatever). Mill a slot with a dado set down the center to fit the top bars you made (measure -- should be about 3/4" for the narrow and 7/8" for the standard, but mine vary a bit). Mill whatever slot you want on the other end for your bottom bars - -I like split bottom bars and use 3/8" x 3/8" bars, but 3/8" x 5/16" works fine too.

Slice these blocks to make the end bars -- make sure they are the same as the dados you cut on the top bars so they fit tight but don't split things.

Cut bottom bars to fit whatever you cut in the end bars.

I find that I set up a pile of wood in blanks. That way I can set up a cut, get it exactly right, and crank out a pile of parts. Do one operation at a time and process the whole batch -- stay awake, it's BORING, and watch that you don't machine your fingers too!

I have a ton of frames to make -- plan on a three more hives next year, so that means 100 narrow frames (33 deep and 66 medium, plus a few) and I'll need at least 80 standard shallow frames for honey. Gonna be a lot of sawdust in the shop this year.

I do really like narrow frames -- the bees seem to build comb really fast on them and keep it flatter than "standard" frames. Fill it up with brood, too, top to bottom.

Re: So which frames to start with?

I just made 100 frames from the drawings Barry shared. Made them all from free scrap wood. And maybe 10 hours total in set up and cutting. What did it save me in the way of money? maybe $70 or so over buying them pre made. Unless you are just flat broke, not working, and have time on your hands anyway. I am not sure making them at home is saving anything.

Re: So which frames to start with?

Can't imagine how used as a frame within a hive covered with wax. I've never seen a single rotten frame in my life. I've seen frames that broke or damaged by moth, but never rotten.

I have 37 year old medium extracting frames from a supplier in Oregon on which the topbar ends have become pithy and weak, maybe from four decades of soaking in honey every year. It is not really rot, but just getting pithy and soft. Of the hundreds of frames I extract annually, it is always those that break in the uncapper. Their batch of wood was poor, the supers from the same order rot out faster than other supers I made in the same era.
I made tops from cedar pallet lumber a few years ago that was also too wide grained to hold up. This video explains pithy as wood that grew to fast and wet.

Historically in North America there were two large brood frame designs, the Dadant and the Langstroth Jumbo. There is no "Dadant Jumbo."

The standard Dadant brood frame (like the one used by Br. Adam) has the dimensions 17 5/8 * 11 1/4 inches. There are 11 of these in the Modified Dadant hive, and 12 in the Buckfast Dadant hive. The frames are spaced wider than Langstroth, on 1 1/2" centers (an important difference).

. Normally used in an 8 or 10 frame configuration. (One of the reasons why the 10 fr. hive became popular is because the 8-fr. had a tendency to tip over.) Frame spacing is 1 3/8" center to center.

The Langstroth Jumbo brood frame is deeper, at 11 1/4", making it similar to the Dadant brood frame, but it retains the narrower spacing.

In Britain, many users of National Hives have gone to a 3 1/2 inch-deeper version of the British Standard brood frame, at 14 x 12 in. to allow for a larger continuous brood comb area. This would be analogous to the Jumbo Langstroth frame.

20 years ago you could still get Lang. Jumbo frames and bodies from at least one supplier in Quebec but now they aren't in the North American catalogs anymore that I know of. Posts: 131 | From: Wakefield, MA, USA | Registered: Jun 2004 | IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Mike Gillmore
Field Bee

Icon 1 posted December 20, 2006 04:25 PM Profile for Mike Gillmore Send New Private Message Edit/Delete Post This sounds like a very natural, bee friendly set up. But it could end up being a beekeepers nightmare.

For example, in the spring flow. If the bees form a band of capped honey across the tops of all of the deep frames, refuse to move nectar into the supers above and start to backfill the deep frames, how would you "open up" the brood nest?

Re: So which frames to start with?

I would suggest making boxes with locally available 1x12's and make the frame end bars 3/8" to 1/2" shorter than the actual lumber is wide. Might shave the boards down a tiny bit to eliminate variations, too, and make the end bars to fit that dimension. I've noticed that deep frames tend to be 1/8" shorter than medium or shallow frames compared to the depth of the boxes -- wonder if that has something to do with drone brood in between the boxes every spring?

I may do that this year, but you do want to watch that you don't get half a dozen different sized brood boxes going -- you never know when you are going to need to swap frames between boxes to do splits, open a brood nest, or give a hive some eggs to make a queen. A big mess if they are different depths.

Re: So which frames to start with?

Re: So which frames to start with?

poplar actually turns into a hard wood as it dries, so Im told ! It gets extremely hard and strong. Its why they make furniture out of it other than it keeps straight and little to no knots.
I have an old chicken coup in my yard made out of cut poplar logs, 80 years old and no sign of giving up yet

Re: So which frames to start with?

I believe the poplar in Canada grows slowly and is a different timber than the poplar in my country which grows incredibly fast (great to grow a quick shelterbelt), but is a very light, porous wood that will rot down quickly and doesn't even burn very well.