Different Guides by DLCatlord

As there's a good chance I will likely add to my existing guide, I figured it would be easier to start a new thread, and transfer my existing guide here, and just add others as I find time. These guides do take a while to design, as does getting everything into position for screen shots. Thanks to everyone for their support.

The first post will obviously be my RB Guide.

I've recently started to add both the Vet and MG in more sections for those without an MMA, but some sections you either need the MMA or you will need cannons. I've also started to add some sections by request. I do feel I may end up with at least 3 RB guides on this thread for different types of situations.

I also use what I call a detour general. It's not actually used to attack with, but to force an attacking general to alter it's path. In some cases this is to save having to attack a camp, but it can also be used to artificially increase the distance a general needs to travel to reach the camp it's attacking.

After taking a very lengthy break, the number of ways to skill generals, and the sheer variety of the generals available has made guides in these types of formats much harder to present. Even some of my 0 loss guides have multiple ways to do it depending on the generals you have available and how you have them skilled. My earliest guides could easily have losses heavily reduced with the newer generals or by skilling the generals that were used as these were designed when that wasn't an available option. For me to truly do all the additional generals let alone skills some justice would take an extremely lengthy post with multiple options for exactly the same camp. Once you add in the testing to make sure that the attacks actually work, you could be talking weeks of design.

Much of what I'm designing now is snippets of possibilities based on the generals that I personally have, hoping that the listed attacks will at least give the readers some new ideas on ways they can reduce losses in their own adventuring. One thing you may notice is how certain themes will keep coming through time and again regardless of the adventure, as will the use that certain generals are put to.

An example of this can be found in adventures featuring the Nords. They tend to be very crossbow heavy as the enemy units are mostly last strike. Some of the attacks will feature Nusala as even unskilled, her first strike to take out up to 100 Valkyrie in a camp before the Valkyrie have had chance to do anything, OGG due to his 280-295 troops, and mostly YGG and MMA to reduce camp numbers to allow a follow up hits with OGG or Nusala. Suiciding YGG is devastating, and while that's not his only use, you'll see it come up time and again. With at least 1 point in first aid, and using only 1 unit, you get zero losses, and in some cases that general's damage is enough to drop the enemy's camp solo.

Another example can be found in my VLT (no blocks) guide shows how you can adjust units sent with YGG to reduce losses, and still win the battle. Area 1 120 Wolf vs YGG and 12R really highlights what he's capable of. The bulk of the wolves are killed by the general so adding more units won't actually reduce the losses, but would rather increase them. The 12 recruits are there to clean up the few remaining wolves.

Some final points about my guides is that they're mostly about reducing losses rather than increasing XP or speed.

1: Most of my blocks and attack patterns are constant within that adventure and are unlikely to vary regardless of which general(s) are used.

2: There really is no one "correct" way to skill up your generals, and even the skill sets between adventures can vary depending on the use you're planning to for a particular general or even the units you'll likely use within each adventure. It's a series of trade offs, which is a whole OTHER topic as it depends on your ultimate goal and how often you like to reskill and can afford to.

3: Speeding up generals in combat or while moving is likely going to translate to more losses for an adventure, but it would mean you can run more adventures within the same period of time which could be important during a scout run or during events which have XP multipliers to increase how many you do.

4: Other skilling options such as boosting generals XP or Star Coins earned within an adventure are also likely increase your losses compared to skilling a general with only combat in mind.

Last edited by DLCatlord; 28.05.20 at 12:38.
Reason: Updates and added adventures

Optional blocks (Far more advanced) Both G1 and G3 have options which will heavily reduce losses, but require no hesitation when sending generals. In a laggy environment, I would suggest recalling and resending generals if you use these attacks and the generals lag. Both have very little room for error. The Generals required are listed below.

Generals X and Y do not actually attack, but both are needed to guide the attacking generals onto the paths you want, so they avoid a camp. I personally call them "detour" generals, as any general attacking from behind them needs to alter his direction

Attack 1 (vs Camp 7) 120 Nomads 80 Lance Riders.
MMA can be used, but the average losses are lighter using the Vet at position B

Attack 3 (vs Camp 1) Block Camp 6 from an interception on an attack to 1

To avoid having to either block camp 11 or eliminating it, we can choose to send both generals to attack Camp 1. Our first attacking general (Tavern) will be intercepted and diverted down to camp 6 and will engage this camp while our General comes around and eliminates the leader.

For the fight to last 40 seconds, all of the Bows and Recruits need to have been killed. The chance, while it exists, is remote. However, due to the length of the block on camp 6, even if the fight extends to 40 seconds, it shouldn't cause any problems.

Attack 2 can be combined into a block with Attack 3 with some adjustments. Please note this is not for the faint hearted. Click on the spoiler below to see this alternative attacking method.

Generals A and W are not strictly needed, but if used, you will need a total of 9 generals

Position A: Veteran General (optional. Can be swapped with another general for it's attack then swapped back out)Position B: Tavern General
Position C: Tavern General
Position D: Tavern GeneralPosition E: Master of Martial ArtsPosition W: Any (Only required if Position A is used, otherwise it can be left out.)Position X: Any
Position Y: Any
Position Z: Any
Positions W-Z are "detour" generals

You can use the original 30R 30ES 160B on the MMA for this attack, but be warned if all of the attacks hit minimum in the other camps, and this goes to 40 seconds, other generals will win their battles and you will lose a lot of unnecessary troops. As it is, expect both camp 4 and 11 to be being demolished before the attacking general completes the kill on the leader's camp.

I use a General from position A to check my other generals on the way to their respective attacks. If General C corners before the General E has crossed the border out of Landing Zone 3, recall all the generals. Also check General B. You do not want him too much further along on his path than he is already. There's a couple of pieces of dry earth you can use as markers if you're using only 7 generals, and again if he's cornered before General E has passed that boundary, recall all generals and try again. This block is quite safe, if promptly executed, and you use the check points just to make sure.

In case you thought I was joking about this being tight. There's 5-6 seconds left before camp 4 would have been defeated by the blocking general. You do not want that general too far in front of General E. You've been warned.

* either block will work, as the general needs to be at the front door of the tower to be intercepted by this camp. If you are low on Elite Soldiers, or prefer to reduce the risks, use the single R block as there's plenty of time. For Vet and MG, see the next note as well on the additional risks.

**If using a Vet or MG, there's a small risk of the blocks needing to hold for up to 90 seconds. The block from General C holds from 100-140 seconds, which would mean that general could win his battle, and you would lose some of those elites involved in that battle. It may well be safer to revert to the 1R block to avoid the issue. If you prefer to risk it, the chances of the Vet's battle going up to 90 seconds is 1 in 5000, for the MG is 1 in 2,500, and for the block to be only 100 seconds is 13.6%. Overall, the risk of this block failing by actually killing the camp is low, but it still exists, so be aware of it.

The first Tavern general that attacks with 14 recruits onto camp 24 serves a dual purpose. He gives a 20 second window for the general blocking camp 25, plus reduces the cultists there allowing for a more stable block. Launch the generals in order of their letters, and don't hesitate. Without cannons, this block is tight.

I've never seen a layout presented for this attack, the original idea came from another source. When I simmed it though, I found there was a problem with the top block if only 1 recruit was used which was why I modified the initial attack to reduce the cultists, which in turn stabilises the block on camp 24.

* While I have yet to have this issue except once with extreme lag, it is safer to attack the Witch Tower and allow camp 25 to intercept this general. Apparently there's a bug which can allow a general to be intercepted by camp 24 even if it's already in another camp's zone. However once a general has already been intercepted, it cannot be intercepted again, until it's finished it's first fight. This is to stop that bug from getting in the way of the general enroute to the camp he's blocking. It also adds a further checkpoint as the general SHOULD be intercepted before the fight finishes at camp 24. If that fight finishes and then he's intercepted, recall all generals, and use the simpler method outlined earlier and eliminate camp 24 first.

General A and B are the most critical generals for spacing. The distance shown here will just allow General B to avoid being intercepted by camp 24, but still have enough time to get to where camp 25 will intercept him. There's only 6 seconds of margin in this, so yes, it's very tight. Generals C and D( the MMA are not quite as critical in timing, but there's still not a lot of time to play with and while cannons will make the full attack easier, that spacing between general A and B will always remain tight. If you find you are struggling to get the spacing right, consider stepping general A's(See Alt Position Diagram) starting point back one space to allow more time on selecting and sending general B. Allow the full drum roll to finish(takes between 3 and 4 seconds) before launching B.) (General A Alt Position Full Diagram)

(Back to Map)There's many ways to close out this last attack, but I feel in the current period, with so much lag being generated once more than one player enters the adventure, this classic finish is one of the best.

I'd like to thank Dinsdale and Lortiness for their input. I'd also like to thank wacky_racer and Darbsovich for supplying me with damascene swords, plus their support during the design process. My awesome guild (Phoenix) for putting up with me while I worked out all the positions and stuff. ttlanhil for some of his valuable early insights. Narcil for explaining how to post graphics in this forum . dari47, Phoenix10, Doris27, Ceasar_Fenix, RizzIzlez and others within the guild for doing buffs (often when I wasn't looking and they thought I wouldn't notice) while I was deeply involved in working it all out.

All blocks and attacks have been tested by myself and others within Phoenix guild, but we don't take responsibility for any losses you may incur running this guide. You're urged to check all blocks and attacks yourself using your own favourite simulator.

Launch each general in order of their letters and allow the drum roll to play out between generals A-C. (This delay is critical as it creates more space between A and C). D and E need to be launched quickly. The margin for error is small if the MG's fight extends past 50 seconds.

If you prefer to split the attacks into two segments, you will need to "time" the release of General C. General A is 6 steps in front of General C, but needs to be at least 8 steps ( at least 6.66 seconds clear to avoid being intercepted by camp 16. General D starts 4 steps behind General C, which is fine, as that's already at the minimal required distance. (General C has only 2 steps further than general D to get to his target, and general D actually needs to be right in front of the WT for camp 20 to cause an interception.)

You could then choose to launch the second attack involving General B and D. Although not strictly necessary, allow the drum roll to finish before launching.

All blocks and attacks have been tested by myself and others within Phoenix guild, but we don't take responsibility for any losses you may incur running this guide. You're urged to check all blocks and attacks yourself using your own favourite simulator.

Last edited by DLCatlord; 07.01.20 at 14:32.
Reason: Adding Expanding the pictures

Secluded experiments is a very large map in which you have to kill 18 leader camps, in 12 different areas. There's multiple ways to tackle this map, but be warned it's not an easy map to complete, and regardless of how it's approached, it's questionable if the losses you will incur, will be worth the rewards you'll receive. Having said that, everyone should complete the adventure at least once for achievements as there's gems attached to doing so (see achievements under adventures in the common section for a complete list of what adventures you need to do give them)

Due to the sheer size of this map and the numerous camps you'll need to make to complete it, I will be presenting each section as self contained so you can open up just the area(s) you're tackling to hopefully make it easier to read. I'll also list troops needed for the section, plus the preferred general(s).

A big thank you to KelsoBluebane for pointing out the typo with the camps for G8 vs Area 7 camps 21/22. Now corrected.

He also mentioned a problem with a block at camp 41 in combination with 45 (G6 vs Area Twelve). I've yet to be able to duplicate this, and despite using two sims in case, both agree with my numbers as listed, however I will place a warning to double check this section yourself if you use this guide.

Best Generals to tackle this adventure are

Master of Martial Arts
Major General
Tavern Generals x 3
Any General x 2

You could use the MMA for the entire map, but the MG outshines it in certain sections.

Evil J has a decent guide for using Vets with Cannons. I tackle the map differently to how he does, so I designed all my own blocks plus positions for generals. I'm sure though his guide will be very good, but I'd suggest double checking the blocks, including mine, using your favourite sim.

(For Full Image Click Here) Launch General B straight after A, preferably before the music finishes, but let the music play out before launching C or he will be intercepted.
This attack will be tight, so if you struggle to get B out, recall General A and try again. General A has a 12.2% chance of a 120 second battle, so the maximum distance from General A to C is 28 steps. The minimum distance from B and C should be 6 steps. It pays to check with a general off to one side to check all the spacings.

[Diagram to follow. I'm not a fan of suiciding my MMA, but players with two may consider this alternative as they won't have to wait on the MMA to recover. There's a position on the other side of the entry into area one which has plenty of area to play with to get spacing between generals. I do suggest holding onto your MMA if you have only one for Camp 45, and for finishing up.

Launch The Generals in order from A to C. There shouldn't be any issues with timing but just check that the MMA is in front of the MG. If you are planning to use this attack, I would suggest you open up area 9 first and use the MMA for his set of attacks. (It should be as it starts a step behind from that location)

Launch General B straight after General A. There's a little room for error, as it's a 1R block. This attack needs to be done, before the next one.(The MMA is more efficient here, however you'll need to shift him to position B, do the attack, and then shift him back.)

[COLOR="gbrown"]Launch General B after waiting for the entire drum roll from General A (a couple of extra seconds won't hurt on top either so take your time with B).
Allow General B to be beside the camp before launching General C at the earliest. Remember that the MMA is suiciding, so that battle will take up to 20 seconds to complete so there's a few steps of extra wriggle room.(See diagram)

For a resource adventure, it's severely lacking in resources in the rewards. On a scale of 1 to 10(1 being lowest), I'd rate this adventure a 1. In fact other adventures give far better rewards for less troops lost. it starts out okay, but then turns into a grind in the last sector with ridiculously high losses. If i wanted to design an adventure that no one will want to do, this would be how I'd design it. The adventure either needs more rewards attached to it, or the last section needs to be redesigned to make it about running the adventure itself rather than writing it off as something you'll do the once for achievements, then never do again. Frankly, I was very disappointed in how this adventure pans out and think it really needs to be looked at. One thing they could add which would revitalise these types of adventures, is adding weapon drops to them(cannons, crossbows, and damascene swords). This would give players an ACTUAL reason to want to take the heavy losses.

Generals Recommended

Master of Martial Arts
Major General
Veteran General x 2
Tavern General x 3

[B]Up until this point, losses are acceptable, but from this point on, just ridiculous, especially the final camp. There's no actual way to reduce the losses, unless you do a series of MMA suicides on that camp. The combination od Roughnecks with Wild Mary makes the camp unbreakable, until you reduce or eliminate them using Cavalry suicide attacks or a series of MMA ones.
Feel free to place your generals somewhere close to where you'll be attacking, so I haven't bothered posting camp sites for this. Due to the last leader camp, there's no point to run blocks. About the ONLY way to reduce losses would be with buff attacks.

The attack by the Major General can handle up to 14 roughnecks as well as Wild Mary. After the initial attack, each suicide by an MMA (using 1 recruit) will kill 5 roughnecks. The initial attack kills 1-7 or them, so assuming worst case and 99 roughnecks are left, you could suicide MMA(s) 17 times to reduce the camp down far enough to allow that attack to occur, but the losses would be pulled back dramatically, although even then with the rewards offered for what's "supposed" to be a resource adventure, it's doubtful if it's worth it.

The Phoenix Guild Presents "Split City in Summer"
Featuring MMA, and Cannons.

A special thank you to michaelswann for the invitation and putting up with me while I noted stuff down for this.

This is a two player Co-op and this is guide is really rough, but should at worst give you some sort of guidance. The left is a little more in depth than the right side with more information presented plus a few variations.

This was a rough guide only. I'll place the simmed numbers up sometime today and tidy it up. Numbers I lost (or anyone else) will depend on any skills on the Generals which is why those numbers are less meaningful than what the simmed numbers show.

did it with mma and 5k recruit in losses i just sent a mma with 220-235 recruits to a camp could shave coule k maybe if i bothered to sim it but just as easy to slaughter fest it recruits are cheap ...other side was done with 2500 solider loses