But those LoS guys are okay with him using his electromagnetic thingie to shut off the lights and throwing flashbangs at Bane's face?

Maybe if Bane had said "let's fight man to man, no weapons, no tricks. My men are watching," that would be one thing. Instead we see Bats selectively use his arsenal when we know he has other stuff available that could help him.

They know Bane can handle Batman's flashbangs. I could imagine Bane talking with his men beforehand, telling them not to interfere so long as Batman's tools have no legitimate effect on Bane or the environment. They know Batman will try to use the dark to his advantage - that's why Bane is ready for it and calls Batman out on it.

But Batman knew that trying more powerful tools that gave him an unfair advantage would have invited Bane's men to start shooting.

__________________Supermanwith Batman - Whatever It Is... - Countdown until midnight release on March 25, 2016 - updated!
A hero can be anyone. Even a man doing something as simple and reassuring as putting a coataround a young boy's shoulders to let him know the world hadn't ended.

But Batman knew that trying more powerful tools that gave him an unfair advantage would have invited Bane's men to start shooting.

That doesn't make any sense. Batman said to himself "I'll use the flashbangs and the electromagnetic device, because I know those won't give me an advantage?" He was down. He was looking for anything to give him an advantage. If he had thought those things would be useless he wouldn't have tried them at all.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Arrow_22

Look for reports of mysterious heroism in the next 6 years. Then check back on this thread

That doesn't make any sense. Batman said to himself "I'll use the flashbangs and the electromagnetic device, because I know those won't give me an advantage?" He was down. He was looking for anything to give him an advantage. If he had thought those things would be useless he wouldn't have tried them at all.

Where did I say Batman thought those things were useless? You've misinterpreted what I said completely.

I said unfair advantage. There is a difference between a flashbang (something that causes disorientation but may not injure) and, say, an actual small explosive or weapon that can cause injury.

He was down and looking for ways to even the mismatch, but it's not like he was about to resort to all sorts of weapons and tools in his arsenal. Of course, you can think Batman shooting Bane in the neck with his grappling hook wouldn't piss off the 30 guys who were watching.

Bane knew Batman wouldn't resort to extreme measures - his rules, remember? Bane knew Batman would use flashbangs and EMP. Therefore he was ready for it, and so were the League members. They knew how Batman would approach the fight and they were prepared.

"Theatricality and deception are powerful agents to the uninitiated, and we are initiated aren't we, Bruce? Members of the League of Shadows."

translation - "I know the tactics you employ and I expected them. They have no effect on me."

__________________Supermanwith Batman - Whatever It Is... - Countdown until midnight release on March 25, 2016 - updated!
A hero can be anyone. Even a man doing something as simple and reassuring as putting a coataround a young boy's shoulders to let him know the world hadn't ended.

I take it you don't like The Dark Knight Returns having a crippled Bruce Wayne who slaps on some mechanical bits to his arms and knees and is as good as new?

He was monologue-ing through the entire comic about how decrepit and debilitating his body was and cursing how much better the young cops had it. It wasn't tossed aside instantly like TDKR's knee injury was.

He was monologue-ing through the entire comic about how decrepit and debilitating his body was and cursing how much better the young cops had it. It wasn't tossed aside instantly like TDKR's knee injury was.

I may have to go reread but, if I remember correctly, doesn't he stop monologue-ing about it around the point where he slaps on the leg and arm brace before going to fight the Mutant Leader?

I may have to go reread but, if I remember correctly, doesn't he stop monologue-ing about it around the point where he slaps on the leg and arm brace before going to fight the Mutant Leader?

When I referenced 'cursing how much better the young cops had it" I am talking about the chapter right after he defeats the mutant leader. 'hunt the Dark Knight", with the new, female police commissioner.

When I referenced 'cursing how much better the young cops had it" I am talking about the chapter right after he defeats the mutant leader. 'hunt the Dark Knight", with the new, female police commissioner.

Ellen Yindel and I'll have to reread it. I seem to remember him not running into any physical limitations afterwards with that brace on.

Ellen Yindel and I'll have to reread it. I seem to remember him not running into any physical limitations afterwards with that brace on.

There is a single panel that shows him in the surgery bed in the last chapter with Alfred assuring "he'll live". Needless to say, this is far more than the utter neglect of Rises after he gets his braces.

I know some here have a problem with the knee brace, but you still get the point that Bruce has to really fight through what his body is willing to take in TDKR. Even when he fights Bane the second time, you can tell that Bruce has to really dig deep to defeat Bane. Hell, remember when he saves Blake? Bruce takes out about, 3-4 LOS with relative ease, yet when he is standing over there defeated bodies; Bruce is breathing heavily.

I could have sworn the surgery bed bit was in the first chapter when he was investigating Two Face.

Unless I have a special version of the book in my hands with the chapters twisted, it's not. And the surgery being in the first chapter makes no sense as he gets demolished by Mutant leader after he beats Two Face.

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And, I don't see it as neglect, I see it as symbolism. The brace is used by Bruce to quickly become Batman, a quick fix. Batman was a quick fix for Bruce to conceal his pain instead of moving on. It's discarded and forgotten as Bruce learns to live as Bruce Wayne instead of Batman.

I wonder if Bane was a gentleman and let him keep his braces all through his prison stint.

It's called facetious hyperbole, unless you actually thought I literally meant Batman would shoot Bane in the neck.

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We're not talking about Bats killing Bane here. We're talking about him using equipment that could help him win the fight. You're talking about something totally different.

Except, you assume that Batman would be able to use all his tools without Bane's men interfering. Why do you think Nolan included those shots of Bane's men watching? This was an extremely hostile environment for Batman to walk into. He was trapped in a small area under watch. Much different than the end of TDK where he might have been chased but still had plenty more freedom to move around and use his tools.

I've said already Bane's men were prepared and expected Batman to use things like flashbangs. But if Batman used a grappling hook to gain position and evade Bane, for example, I could see Barsad shooting at it to break the cable and not allow Batman to get a break.

__________________Supermanwith Batman - Whatever It Is... - Countdown until midnight release on March 25, 2016 - updated!
A hero can be anyone. Even a man doing something as simple and reassuring as putting a coataround a young boy's shoulders to let him know the world hadn't ended.

Except, you assume that Batman would be able to use all his tools without Bane's men interfering.

And you assume that Bats didn't use said tools because he knew they would interfere. Which implies he knew they would be so useless as to not register as a threat to Bane's men. Which raises the question - why use the tools at all?

__________________

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arrow_22

Look for reports of mysterious heroism in the next 6 years. Then check back on this thread

Because he was losing the fight badly and started panicking. That's why. The flashbangs and darkness didn't help him, and pretty soon the fight was over.

Even if he wanted to use other methods, he didn't have the time or chance to do so.

__________________Supermanwith Batman - Whatever It Is... - Countdown until midnight release on March 25, 2016 - updated!
A hero can be anyone. Even a man doing something as simple and reassuring as putting a coataround a young boy's shoulders to let him know the world hadn't ended.

Oh, and The Dark Knight Returns Bruce Wayne and Batman is a very different character than the TDKR Bale Bruce/Batman.

In Returns, Batman isn't a cripple. He envies youth and is humbled by everything he's experienced. He's an older man that has been at war for decades. He's a couple of years away from 60 and is much more obsessed, dedicated and driven than the Bale was depicted in TDKR. "Slapping on" mechanical enhancements is completely understandable.

In TDKR, Bruce is a moping cripple. Both personas have been dormant and he hasn't done anything in years. He's what? In his late 30's, 40? He's been Batman for about a year. He's not humbled, he's overconfident, foolish and he's right back to where he was in Batman Begins to the point where he has to relearn. He's not driven and he underestimates his enemies just like he did when he was Batman for the first 3/4 of his career.

Oh, and The Dark Knight Returns Bruce Wayne and Batman is a very different character than the TDKR Bale Bruce/Batman.

In Returns, Batman isn't a cripple. He envies youth and is humbled by everything he's experienced. He's an older man that has been at war for decades. He's a couple of years away from 60 and is much more obsessed, dedicated and driven than the Bale was depicted in TDKR. "Slapping on" mechanical enhancements is completely understandable.

In TDKR, Bruce is a moping cripple. Both personas have been dormant and he hasn't done anything in years. He's what? In his late 30's, 40? He's been Batman for about a year. He's not humbled, he's overconfident, foolish and he's right back to where he was in Batman Begins to the point where he has to relearn. He's not driven and he underestimates his enemies just like he did when he was Batman for the first 3/4 of his career.

So Batman who retired after the death of Jason Todd and the government bill to put superheroes into hiding that uses mechanical enhancements to go back out is fine?

But the Bruce Wayne who retired to achieve a victory (based on a lie though), the death of his one love and the person anchoring him to his life outside of Batman, the death of the person he thought could save the city without the need for a mask and allow him to retire and leave Gotham in peace (something he is allowed to do at the end of TDKR with Blake taking up the mantle), attempts to create a clean energy supply for Gotham but then it's discovered it can be turned into a bomb, is injured, then exiles himself after all his perceived failures and goes back out with a death wish while wearing a leg brace (again, used for symbolism mostly) and then recovers over the course of (just a guess from what we see) 3-4 months enough to go back to Gotham and end it should not be wearing a leg brace?

Even though I don't agree with a lot that I've been reading, I am pleased to see such activity in the TDKR boards. Polarizing? Very much so, but it's actually nice to see an even amount of love and hate where topics can continue to be interesting.

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Originally Posted by Schrute

A Batman who only cares about organized crime and allows other crime to happen in Gotham seems like the laziest Batman ever created

I'd agree...if it wasn't stated before that the organized crime element is the biggest reason why there is crime in Gotham City to begin with. First Batman Begins when Rachel Dawes stated that men like Carmine Falcone create guys like Joe Chill and then when the Dent Act came through, it cleaned up most of the crimes where the GCPD will be going after overdue library books next. Statements that are clear enough that Nolan tried to picture criminal activity as simple as it wouldn't be such in a city like Gotham if the mobs are put to prison and stopped.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BatLobsterRises

Wow, the TDKR boards have been more active today than the Iron Man 3 boards. Imagine that!

Still though, those boards have been HOT with debate, it's been like TDKR all over again over there and possibly worse from what I've seen. But today I noticed we've been more chatty over here.

Also, I listened to that podcast on IGN and Eckhart seems like a really cool, down to Earth guy. It was pretty funny, he said he's been so busy he still hasn't gotten a chance to see TDKR. They asked him, "Do you know your picture is all over the movie and Harvey Dent actually plays a big part in the story?" He had no idea whatsoever, hahaha. And that story about the coin is great.