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Desert Fox wrote:Yea it looks like I'm spending well over a grand tomorrow at Brooks Brothers, but it seems like a great deal.

It's a great feeling to get some substance to your wardrobe though. Well worth it.

Since you are already splurging on the suits, make sure your tie game is in order too. Good ties are crucial.

Anyone got tips for ties? what type of color, pattens, etc?

The easy and cheap route (now pufer approved) is http://www.thetiebar.com/. They sell $15 ties of reasonable quality, most of which are pretty conservative. To keep it ultra conservative, I recommend pindot or sweettooth (traditionally called "houndstooth," sometimes also called "puppytooth") in red or blue.

Of course, it's better to go the in-store route, and I love fine ties. But this'll get you by for OCI, and they're the cheapest ties I've seen anywhere. Also, congrats on your BB suits. I have two that I love.

People might put me on blast for this, but I like Tommy Hilfiger ties.--LinkRemoved----LinkRemoved--For the price, they have great quality fabrics and are classically cut (not too thin or thick). I generally get more complements on my tommy hilfiger ties than my hugo boss ties.

daesonesb wrote:People might put me on blast for this, but I like Tommy Hilfiger ties.--LinkRemoved----LinkRemoved--For the price, they have great quality fabrics and are classically cut (not too thin or thick). I generally get more complements on my tommy hilfiger ties than my hugo boss ties.

Ties are super personal, but as long as you've got a new one -- either striped or with some subtle inoffensive pattern -- the actual colors and specifics are gonna be personal for you.

Oh, and half windsor or pratt knot is the right knot choice for oci in my opinion.

I'm a fan of Hilfiger ties as well, particularly their patterned ties (either repeating and subtle or paisley). For striped ties in the same price range, I think that Nautica ties are superior to Hilfiger, but that's just preference. Both Hilfiger and Nautica should be purchased at a TJ Maxx or at a Nautica or Hilfiger Outlet store a season late during a sale - given how easy it is to find them in the $10-15 range, they should never be full price purchases (unless you see *the one* and you just have to have it).

The one thing that bears mention with Hilfiger ties is that they've been progressively getting narrower over the last few years. A number of their 3.25 in ties from last summer's season, when actually measured, were more like 3.15 in. While still fine if you're near or below your ideal weight, they've gotten too narrow to look appropriate on larger folks. With their recent introduction of a skinnier tie line, I hope this trend reverses itself a bit, but you'll still not want to be buying a Hilfiger sight unseen if your a bigger dude.

BB has made a substantial part of their tie line much better in the last few years, but that tie you link is not one of the new style. Back when they released that tie (70's), it was one of their better ties, but still had the floppy end that all BB ties had. Back in the day, the bottom three inches of a BB tie was just the front silk - no backing. The reason for this actually made some sense: you couldn't iron classic BB tie fabric (true of most other brands in the 70s/early 80s too) without glossing it over any creases - if the end (where the most creases exist) has no backing and is really thin, you can get away with a little more ironing before ruining the tie.

Nowadays, they're all backed all the way down, but the heritage BB ties still use the exact same fabric that they did back when they were first created. This means that you can't iron those ties, even a bit, without a serious risk of fucking them up. Now, you should always be careful when ironing/steaming a tie to begin with, and only do so sparingly, but occasionally you actually do need to get rid of some wrinkles, especially around where a tie was knotted. With heritage BB ties, this is risky business, especially given how oppressively expensive they are.

Now, walking down the street in most downtowns in America, you'll see a number of guys who have ironed/brought to the dry cleaners their ties and have obviously-glossed seams. This really isn't one of those "only asshole sticklers like Pufer would notice" types of things; anyone who was in business prior to 1990 or knows anything about tie care will be able to easily pick these folks out because they have literally ruined their ties (it would be like wearing a tie with a big mustard stain on it). Everyone is now on notice to not be one of those guys. If you can see the outline of what's on the back of your tie on the front, that tie is cooked, and there's more of a risk in cooking your tie with BB than with most other makers these days.

How many suits are recommended for OCI, assuming a week of interviews? I've got two suits that I think are conservative/boring enough for OCI. One is solid navy, one is dark charcoal herringbone, both two button. I may pick up a third. Is this OCI appropriate? Is it too light?

I'm a little taken aback by the consensus in this thread that $70+ dress shirts are a necessity for OCI. I'm not saying that you should go to Target or Wal Mart and buy the cheapest crap you can find, but having an arsenal of overpriced BB shirts and ties is far from necesssary. Buying three or four simple white, PVH dress shirts at TJ Maxx at $20-$25 a pop is absolutely a-okay for this type of thing. After all, your jacket is going to be on 95% of the time, and interviewers RARELY if ever notice and/or give a crap about that kind of thing unless it stands out in a negative (read: gawdy) way. They don't expect people subsisting on student loans to dress like partners.

Ties are the same way. I wore a suit every work day for years before law school and never spent the kind of money on ties being suggested by some in this thread. The reason: you will, inevitably, ruin the damn thing if you wear it with any regularity by having a drop of food/drink/whatever get on it, and then you'll be mega-pissed. Go with the presentable, cheaper stuff like tiebar, etc. I would much rather have 4-5 respectable, decent-looking ties for the price of one ridiculously expensive tie that an interviewer will never, ever know cost 400% more than the others.

Suits are the only thing where you really NEED to make sure you go for quality.

IrwinM.Fletcher wrote:I'm a little taken aback by the consensus in this thread that $70+ dress shirts are a necessity for OCI. I'm not saying that you should go to Target or Wal Mart and buy the cheapest crap you can find, but having an arsenal of overpriced BB shirts and ties is far from necesssary. Buying three or four simple white, PVH dress shirts at TJ Maxx at $20-$25 a pop is absolutely a-okay for this type of thing. After all, your jacket is going to be on 95% of the time, and interviewers RARELY if ever notice and/or give a crap about that kind of thing unless it stands out in a negative (read: gawdy) way. They don't expect people subsisting on student loans to dress like partners.

Ties are the same way. I wore a suit every work day for years before law school and never spent the kind of money on ties being suggested by some in this thread. The reason: you will, inevitably, ruin the damn thing if you wear it with any regularity by having a drop of food/drink/whatever get on it, and then you'll be mega-pissed. Go with the presentable, cheaper stuff like tiebar, etc. I would much rather have 4-5 respectable, decent-looking ties for the price of one ridiculously expensive tie that an interviewer will never, ever know cost 400% more than the others.

Suits are the only thing where you really NEED to make sure you go for quality.

I don' think you've been reading all the post in this thread. Several people have suggest sources for decent ties in the $15 range. There's also been a lot of talk about taking advantage of the 4 for $210 at Brooks Bros. You are right that you can get an acceptable shirt cheaper, but $50 a shirt isn't lavish, and they'll still be around, and still looking good, a year from now when you (hopefully) start your big fancy job.

IrwinM.Fletcher wrote:I'm a little taken aback by the consensus in this thread that $70+ dress shirts are a necessity for OCI. I'm not saying that you should go to Target or Wal Mart and buy the cheapest crap you can find, but having an arsenal of overpriced BB shirts and ties is far from necesssary. Buying three or four simple white, PVH dress shirts at TJ Maxx at $20-$25 a pop is absolutely a-okay for this type of thing. After all, your jacket is going to be on 95% of the time, and interviewers RARELY if ever notice and/or give a crap about that kind of thing unless it stands out in a negative (read: gawdy) way. They don't expect people subsisting on student loans to dress like partners.

Ties are the same way. I wore a suit every work day for years before law school and never spent the kind of money on ties being suggested by some in this thread. The reason: you will, inevitably, ruin the damn thing if you wear it with any regularity by having a drop of food/drink/whatever get on it, and then you'll be mega-pissed. Go with the presentable, cheaper stuff like tiebar, etc. I would much rather have 4-5 respectable, decent-looking ties for the price of one ridiculously expensive tie that an interviewer will never, ever know cost 400% more than the others.

Suits are the only thing where you really NEED to make sure you go for quality.

Re shirts I don't think anyone is suggesting you pay full price for BB shirts. Hell, BB is one of those brands which you should never pay full price for anything. I recently picked up several of their shirts for less than $50 a pop, which I think is pretty reasonable for the quality. And when I'm interviewing for jobs, I'd just rather have a better quality shirt- if only for personal satisfaction.

IrwinM.Fletcher wrote:I'm a little taken aback by the consensus in this thread that $70+ dress shirts are a necessity for OCI. I'm not saying that you should go to Target or Wal Mart and buy the cheapest crap you can find, but having an arsenal of overpriced BB shirts and ties is far from necesssary. Buying three or four simple white, PVH dress shirts at TJ Maxx at $20-$25 a pop is absolutely a-okay for this type of thing. After all, your jacket is going to be on 95% of the time, and interviewers RARELY if ever notice and/or give a crap about that kind of thing unless it stands out in a negative (read: gawdy) way. They don't expect people subsisting on student loans to dress like partners.

I'd be more specific than just saying four PVH shirts. I mean, most Arrow shirts, while okay in the fabric and finish department, have permanent collar stays. That's fine if you go to a dry cleaner who knows what they're doing, but if you don't know how to iron properly or your dry cleaner sucks, it might get to the point that you notice the sewn-in piece of plastic in there.

That said, Tommy Hilfiger shirts are great. Picking up four Hilfiger shirts at TJ Maxx or Nordstrom Rack (which tends to have a better selection of them in my experience) for under $25 would put you in a better position than a lot of associates out there. Of course, to make it through OCI, you might not even need four shirts if you don't sweat too much.

On the other hand, you could totally get away with picking up your shirts from Walmart. The George line at Walmart actually has pretty good fabric and a high level of finish. They have oddly curved collars that you can pick out from a crowd if you're looking for them, but it's entirely possible that I'm one of only like ten people on Earth who has ever noticed that.

IrwinM.Fletcher wrote:Ties are the same way. I wore a suit every work day for years before law school and never spent the kind of money on ties being suggested by some in this thread. The reason: you will, inevitably, ruin the damn thing if you wear it with any regularity by having a drop of food/drink/whatever get on it, and then you'll be mega-pissed. Go with the presentable, cheaper stuff like tiebar, etc. I would much rather have 4-5 respectable, decent-looking ties for the price of one ridiculously expensive tie that an interviewer will never, ever know cost 400% more than the others.

I don't think anyone has proposed spending full price on anything but Tie Bar ties in this topic. I mean, I haven't spent full price on more than twenty or so ties in my life. Ties are definitely an area where you can save some cash and still look 100% as good as anyone, especially with eBay (I probably buy a dozen or so perfect condition ties on eBay every month for less than $25 overall).

IrwinM.Fletcher wrote:Suits are the only thing where you really NEED to make sure you go for quality.

I would dispute that, depending on what you mean by "quality." You can get quality enough for OCI for well under $200 if you know where to look. The implication that you need to spend money on a suit as opposed to ties and shirts is simply wrong.

You don't have to spend a lot of money or attain a particularly high level of "quality" on any single piece of clothing for OCI to look better than 80% of your competition, but you do have to have some basic idea of what you're aiming for.

Okay let's talk about watches for a minute. I almost pulled the trigger a few months ago but the price jumped on the watch I wanted and it still hasn't come down. Since then, I've decided to jump up for a higher quality watch. How do the style gurus view a black leather watch with a black face? Too much, should I go for a lighter face? Wearing black shoes/black belt for my interviews, hence the black band. v.

beach_terror wrote:Okay let's talk about watches for a minute. I almost pulled the trigger a few months ago but the price jumped on the watch I wanted and it still hasn't come down. Since then, I've decided to jump up for a higher quality watch. How do the style gurus view a black leather watch with a black face? Too much, should I go for a lighter face? Wearing black shoes/black belt for my interviews, hence the black band. v.

Quoting to avoid it getting buried at the bottom of the last page, sorry bros and broettes.

Also, the set of "ties you would wear to an interview" is, in my opinion, damn near co-extensive with the set of "ties you would wear to work at a legal employer." So, uh, if you're planning to whip out your looney toons tie I'm afraid I don't have pairing advice, but otherwise, allow me to rephrase:

Well, any tie that you are likely to ever wear in a legal will match with a plain white shirt. So there's that.

beach_terror wrote:Okay let's talk about watches for a minute. I almost pulled the trigger a few months ago but the price jumped on the watch I wanted and it still hasn't come down. Since then, I've decided to jump up for a higher quality watch. How do the style gurus view a black leather watch with a black face? Too much, should I go for a lighter face? Wearing black shoes/black belt for my interviews, hence the black band. v.

Quoting to avoid it getting buried at the bottom of the last page, sorry bros and broettes.

Go with the lighter face. The black-on-black is harsh and looks good for club wear, but not an interview...in the off chance that an interviewer noticed such things.

thesealocust wrote:...we're in the OCI thread. Talking about OCI clothing.

Also, the set of "ties you would wear to an interview" is, in my opinion, damn near co-extensive with the set of "ties you would wear to work at a legal employer." So, uh, if you're planning to whip out your looney toons tie I'm afraid I don't have pairing advice, but otherwise, allow me to rephrase:

Well, any tie that you are likely to ever wear in a legal will match with a plain white shirt. So there's that.

Wow - all I am asking, which you haven't answered is how do you know what ties match with what shirts. I do not own looney toon ties. Also - before you mentioned only a white shirt and everything goes with white. I get that. But when working all summer, I wear many different color shirts with my suits.

I was asking if there are any general rules - can you wear a stripped tie with a patterned shirt?Do you want to try to match a color in the tie with the color of the shirt?

beach_terror wrote:Okay let's talk about watches for a minute. I almost pulled the trigger a few months ago but the price jumped on the watch I wanted and it still hasn't come down. Since then, I've decided to jump up for a higher quality watch. How do the style gurus view a black leather watch with a black face? Too much, should I go for a lighter face? Wearing black shoes/black belt for my interviews, hence the black band. v.

Black band with black face is probably fine, although it's not the most conservative way to do it (I don't really understand the harsh comment above; if it were neon green, sure, but black isn't particularly noticeable). The only situation that would be borderline is if you were wearing it with a light blue or medium olive suit. If you were doing that, however, I'd suspect that you'd be wearing brown leather and that entire watch wouldn't be much of an option anyway.

I'd be much more concerned about matching metal colors with those two watches. If your belt buckle (and eyeglasses, if you have them) are silver but your watch is gold/bronze, that would be more of a problem than a black face.

Headybrah wrote:Where to go for help with matching ties to shirts?

I seem to be unable to match ties with shirts. Are there any rules? I know you don't want something with a lot of noise as a tie on a patterned shirt - but what about colors?

What do stripped ties go with?

Following are some general rules. There are particular ties that would exceptions to each of the rules I'll list, but they would be judgment calls and, thus, not appropriate for a list such as this:

Solid dark suit with solid white shirt --> any tie will work, but you may want to avoid solid, untextured ties in the same color as your suit.

Solid suit with solid pale blue/gray shirt --> any tie will work, with one caveat - if your shirt and suit are of the same family of colors (navy suit with pale blue shirt), your tie probably shouldn't have a base of the opposite color family (gray base color tie, in this example). In other words, match your suit color first, then your shirt.

Solid suit with solid pale pastel shirt --> you have to match the tie to both the shirt and the suit (for obvious reasons, if your shirt matches your suit, go with a tie that is based in the same color as your suit). If you're not good at matching colors, don't wear pastel shirts.

Solid suit with solid bright pastel/other color shirts --> you don't generally wear deep-colored (black, burgundy, jewel-tones, bright anything, etc.) shirts in the law business unless the event you're going to has nothing to do with law. If you are going to an event that has nothing to do with law, get a paisley or stripe where the base color matches your suit (navy suit --> dark blue tie) and the paisley design or stripe picks up on your shirt color (bright pink shirt --> pink paisleys).

Solid suit with vertical stripe shirt --> any tie that isn't a vertical stripe itself will work so long as the stripes on your tie are of a different width (preferably wider) than the stripes (both positive and negative color) on your shirt. That said, to be safe, you should prefer a solid, a repeating geometric/dot pattern, or a paisley.

Solid suit with checked/windowpane/plaid pattern shirt --> you shouldn't be wearing checked/boxed/plaid pattern shirts with your suit. If you must, go with a dull burgundy or dull navy solid tie, but you should probably not be going to court.

Pinstriped/windowpane suit with solid white or pale blue/gray shirt --> the stripes on your tie should not go in the same direction as those on your suit, and the stripes should be of a different width, as above. With a windowpane suit, you'll probably want to avoid plaid ties of all varieties. Pinstriped suits are always appropriate with dots, repeating geometric, and paisley designs. In a business setting, keep your tie relatively tame with a louder suit like a pinstripe, and only pick up on the pinstripe colors if you're going to a non-business event (pale orange pinstripes with an orange paisley only if you're going to an inn of court meeting, not if you're going to court).

Pinstriped/windowpane suit with solid pale pastel shirt --> now you have to match the suit stripes, your suit color, and your shirt color to your tie, and comply with the immediately preceding rule; if you're not great at matching stuff, you might want to avoid this category

Color: Darker ties will look more business formal (navy, charcoal, burgundy); lighter or more vibrant ties in traditional colors will look less formal, but still very appropriate for the office (blue, gray, red, add in some subdued purples, greens, yellows, and oranges).

Fabric: silk

Paisley/Floral: single simple paisleys and floral elements lined up geometrically (as a substitute for dots) are acceptable for the office. Full-bore paisleys and floral elements generally are not. Actual depictions of flowers (not talking about tiny dots that look like daisies, but what looks like a painting of a clump of irises) are unacceptable no matter what you're doing, unless you've taken a time machine back to the 80's.

Pattern: simple stripes, boxes, dots, diamonds, etc. Stick to the classics. Large scale swirly shit and bold abstract designs went out with the 90s. Bold plaids/crossing lines are the current thing and won't last, but the more conservative of them are fine for now. When I say repeating geometric, I mean small boxes, dots, and stuff like that; not repeating half-inch high contrasting color diamonds or something.

If you just wanted to post some pics ties and hear what they'd go with (or even just a photo of what you got, assuming your collection isn't too big and it's a decent resolution pic), I'd be happy to go through them.

Pufer wrote:Solid dark suit with solid white shirt --> any tie will work, but you may want to avoid solid, untextured ties in the same color as your suit...

-Pufer

So, just to be clear, a red and blue striped tie with a white shirt is fine with a solid dark charcoal suit? (Pretend that the shirt here is white. I couldn't find this tie with a white shirt.) I also fall into the category of being completely inept at matching stuff. Example:

beach_terror wrote:Okay let's talk about watches for a minute. I almost pulled the trigger a few months ago but the price jumped on the watch I wanted and it still hasn't come down. Since then, I've decided to jump up for a higher quality watch. How do the style gurus view a black leather watch with a black face? Too much, should I go for a lighter face? Wearing black shoes/black belt for my interviews, hence the black band.

I think black band, stainless case, white face is what you'd want, but out of those two I would choose the white face. I'm mostly against black watches in general though.

Pufer wrote:Solid dark suit with solid white shirt --> any tie will work, but you may want to avoid solid, untextured ties in the same color as your suit...

-Pufer

So, just to be clear, a red and blue striped tie with a white shirt is fine with a solid dark charcoal suit? (Pretend that the shirt here is white. I couldn't find this tie with a white shirt.) I also fall into the category of being completely inept at matching stuff. Example:<img>