She’s at it again: A few hours ago, she posted a story under the heading, “CBS News Investigates.” The piece starts out thusly:

For all those who’ve declared the autism-vaccine debate over – a new scientific review begs to differ. It considers a host of peer-reviewed, published theories that show possible connections between vaccines and autism.

* According to PubMed, this is only the second time that Ratajczak has been the primary author of a published study in the past decade, and it’s only the fourth study she’s been associated with in any capacity during that time.

* The study’s citation for the claim that “the United States government…[says] that autistic conditions can result from encephalopathy following vaccination” does not point the reader to an article; the citation reads, in total, “Child Health Safety. 2010. June 30.” That same citation is given to back up the statement, “It has been determined that autism can be caused by an underlying predisposition to mitochondrial dysfunction.” This, apparently, is one of the “peer-reviewed, published theories” that Attkisson is referring to.

* Child Health Safety is one of the most virulently anti-vaccine websites out there. Don’t believe me? One whole section of the site is devoted to the argument that the drop in infectious diseases like measles and smallpox is not due to vaccines but modern sewage systems and better hygiene. Included among the site’s “Top Posts” are “Japanese & British Data Show Vaccines Cause Autism,” “MMR Causes Autism – Another Win in US Federal Court,” and “Autism Increase Environmental Not Genetic.”

Attkisson’s fealty to the anti-vaccine movement has been an embarrassment to CBS News for years. That she continues to advocate for their cause is nothing short of remarkable.

* If you want to read a PDF of the study, it’s available here, courtesy of Rescuepost, which is maintained by Generation Rescue, the autism organization headed up by anti-vaccine activist Jenny McCarthy.

Also, if you ever studied public health, you would know that it is generally accepted that it in fact was not vaccines or other drugs but sewage systems and improved hygiene that primarily caused the reduction in infectious disease deaths we have seen. By your corporate fringe standards, the whole public health community is “virulently anti-vaccine.”

Also, if you ever studied public health, you would know that it is generally accepted that it in fact was not vaccines or other drugs but sewage systems and improved hygiene that primarily caused the reduction in infectious disease deaths we have seen.

A couple things wrong here. While deaths may have decreased, in part, due to improved hygiene and sanitation, improvements in medicine also played a significant role. But Seth said “the drop in infectious diseases”, not “the drop in deaths of infectious diseases”. Vaccines were, demonstrably, responsible for the decreased incidence of disease. But that also translates to fewer deaths: if not as many people get the disease to begin with, not as many die from it. Further, hygiene and sanitation don’t mean much when it comes to diseases like smallpox or measles, which are transmitted through the air.

@Child Health Safety

Don’t have time to go through all of your claims, but point E) about autism not being caused by genes is very likely wrong. There has been research in both mice and humans that identify several genes, such as the SHANK2, SHANK3 and RAB39B genes, that are strongly associated with and/or causal of ASDs.

You said regarding the statements in evidence to the US Congress of one of the world’s foremost geneticists, Dr Michael Collins:-

“point E) about autism not being caused by genes is very likely wrong. There has been research in both mice and humans that identify several genes, such as the SHANK2, SHANK3 and RAB39B genes, that are strongly associated with and/or causal of ASDs.”

You do not understand causation. And the correct terminology for causation is we believe “internal” vs “external” in relation to causation of any human condition. You confuse the presence of genes as a necessary condition for all human disorders with necessary and sufficient conditions. Genes are no more a necessary and sufficient condition than roads are in the causation of road traffic accidents.

“Also, if you ever studied public health, you would know that it is generally accepted that it in fact was not vaccines or other drugs but sewage systems and improved hygiene that primarily caused the reduction in infectious disease deaths we have seen.”

Golly, Jake. I studied public health at the George Washington University, graduating with an MPH and a 3.9 grade-point average. I must have missed the hygiene class. That must be where my 0.1 for a 4.0 ended up. You over-estimate the power of sewage systems. Proof? The third-world countries where sewage has not been put in but polio has been snuffed out… THROUGH VACCINES.

Then again, who would believe you, Jake? You call us all shills and minions, but who’s YOUR daddy? JB? Kimmie? Give me a break.

“By your corporate fringe standards, the whole public health community is “virulently anti-vaccine.”

Don’t include yourself among us, Jake. You are not a public health worker. By your standards, Handley would be a physician and Blaxill would be a scientist.

That’s a total “party university”, all they did was keggers and sit around making sh*t up. No academia. Being the geek that I am, I opted for a brick-and-mortar place with accreditation and professors and even a structured curriculum. Sure, it was more expensive than Google U, but, as you can see, my credibility is intact.

Jake, can you explain how improved sewage systems prevent airborne viruses (i.e., measles, smallpox) from infecting people? How do you explain the mumps outbreak that hit Japan in the 1990s? Was it because the combination MMR vaccine was unavailable for a time? Or because Japan is a third-world backwater hellhole riven with open sewers?

Also, if you ever studied public health, you would know that it is generally accepted that it in fact was not vaccines or other drugs but sewage systems and improved hygiene that primarily caused the reduction in infectious disease deaths we have seen.

Still waiting for Seth to answer anywhere. Silence from him on CHS, silence from him on Age of Autism and silence from him on his own blog.

Interesting though that the usual suspects rush over to post thinking that is a substitute for comment from Seth. Journalists don’t like it when other people don’t answer their questions so there is no excuse for a journalist not answering for himself.

Will Dan Olmsted correct his “Error Virus” piece? I haven’t done the full accounting, but Mr. Olmsted made many errors in that piece, comparable to the number he claims were made in an entire book by Mr. Mnookin. My guess is no correction will be made as the Age of Autism blog does not correct anything, even when they know the facts are incorrect.

As to your “bob’s your uncle piece”. It is one thing to post that on you blog where the audience welcomes any hit piece and is rather uncritical. In the outside world, your piece falls flat. To paraphrase a much better writer than I, there isn’t any there there.

We are posting this challenge on CHS today. We look forward to your reply. Journalists are meant to check their facts. [Looks like a Harvard education can be wasted in some cases.]

We challenge you to deny that:

A) the current President of Merck’s Vaccines Division, Julie Gerberding confirmed to CBS News when she was Director of the US Centres for Disease Control that: “….. if you’re predisposed with the mitochondrial disorder, it can certainly set off some damage. Some of the symptoms can be symptoms that have characteristics of autism.“ [1]

B) Autistic conditions can result from encephalopathy following vaccination. The US Health Resources and Services Administration (HRSA) confirmed to CBS News that of 1322 cases of vaccine injury compensation settled out of court by the US Government in secret settlements: “We have compensated cases in which children exhibited an encephalopathy, or general brain disease. Encephalopathy may be accompanied by a medical progression of an array of symptoms including autistic behavior, autism, or seizures.” [2], [3].

C) It is biologically plausible that a live virus vaccine like MMR contains live viruses one of which is scientifically accepted as causing autism. The first known cause of autism was rubella virus.

… rubella (congenital rubella syndrome) is one of the few proven causes of autism.“ Walter A. Orenstein, M.D. US as Assistant Surgeon General, Director National Immunization Program in a letter to the UK’s Chief Medical Officer 15 February 2002.

D) Autistic conditions can result from acute disseminated encephalomyelitis (ADEM) following MMR vaccination as held by the US Federal Court in the case of Bailey Banks [4].

In his conclusion, US Federal Court Special Master Abell ruled that Petitioners had proven that the MMR had directly caused a brain inflammation illness called acute disseminated encephalomyelitis (ADEM) which, in turn, had caused the autism spectrum disorder PDD-NOS in the child:

The Court found that Bailey’s ADEM was both caused-in-fact and proximately caused by his vaccination. It is well-understood that the vaccination at issue can cause ADEM, and the Court found, based upon a full reading and hearing of the pertinent facts in this case, that it did actually cause the ADEM. Furthermore, Bailey’s ADEM was severe enough to cause lasting, residual damage, and retarded his developmental progress, which fits under the generalized heading of Pervasive Developmental Delay, or PDD [an autism spectrum disorder]. The Court found that Bailey would not have suffered this delay but for the administration of the MMR vaccine, and that this chain of causation was… a proximate sequence of cause and effect leading inexorably from vaccination to Pervasive Developmental Delay.

E) Autism is not caused by genes. And what does not cause autism?

Dr Francis S. Collins, M.D., Ph.D. the 16th and current Director of the US$30.5 billion budget National Institutes of Health [nominated by President Obama: NIH News Release 17th August 2009 ] stated in evidence to US House of Representatives Committee May 2006 when Director of the US National Human Genome Research Institute [5]:

“Recent increases in chronic diseases like diabetes, childhood asthma, obesity or autism cannot be due to major shifts in the human gene pool as those changes take much more time to occur. They must be due to changes in the environment, including diet and physical activity, which may produce disease in genetically predisposed persons.“

F) Autistic conditions affect approximately 1 in 100 US children. They affect 1 in 64 British children [1 in 40 are boys] according to a Cambridge University study [6].

“Conclusions: The prevalence estimate of known cases of ASC, using different methods of ascertainment converges around 1%. The ratio of known to unknown cases means that for every three known cases there are another two unknown cases. This has implications for planning diagnostic, social and health services.”

G) It is estimated to cost the UK £28 billion per annum [roughly US$42 billion]: [7]

[1] HOUSE CALL WITH DR. SANJAY GUPTA – Unraveling the Mystery of Autism; Talking With the CDC Director; Stories of Children with Autism; Aging with Autism – Aired March 29, 2008 – 08:30 ET

“C) It is biologically plausible that a live virus vaccine like MMR contains live viruses one of which is scientifically accepted as causing autism. The first known cause of autism was rubella virus. ”

First off, the statement is so gramatically poor as to be nonsense. “It is biologically plausible that a live virus vaccine like MMR contains live viruses one of which is scientifically accepted as causing autism”

It is not “biologically plausible that a live virus vaccine like MMR contains live viruses”. It is a fact that MMR contains live viruses. A fact which has nothing to do with the second part of his sentence.

Assuming that the gentleman means that it is biologically plausible that the MMR could cause autism because of the Rubella component:

This typifies the sort of poor logic that has created the vaccine scare. Congenital Rubella Syndrome has been identified as a cause of autism (and many other disabilities). The word “congenital” should suggest to the most casual of observers that this is due to a prenatal infection. More precisely, a prenatal infection of the mother, not the fetus. My recollection is that the infection must occur not only prenatally, but during a specific period of gestation.

One can not logically jump from that to implying that it is biologically plausible that MMR (a vaccine given to infants) causes autism.

One must further explore the logic. If the CRS is a cause of autism, then it only follows that autism has been with us as long as rubella infections. But we are often told by vaccine-causation proponents that autism is somehow “new”, appearing only after vaccination with thimerosal.

The person to answer is Seth Mnookin. You and your cronies have rushed over here from Kev Leitch’s “LeftBrain” blog to answer for him. Notwithstanding you are not doing a very good job of it, the reason you have done is because you know Seth will make an even bigger mess of it than you.

And you say: “One can not logically jump from that to implying that it is biologically plausible that MMR (a vaccine given to infants) causes autism.”

Explain? It is known that a live virus causes autism – rubella virus. It is therefore plausible that a live virus in a vaccine could also cause autism. The fact that MMR contains three live viruses makes it even more plausible.

Thank you Professor Sullivan, but is it obvious you have no medical or scientific qualifications for anyone to take any notice of what you say.

“The ratio of known to unknown cases means that for every three known cases there are another two unknown cases. This has implications for planning diagnostic, social and health services.””

Strangely enough, vaccine-causation proponents usually shy away from this statement. If we are, today, still missing 40% of the autistic children, how can we claim these data as proof of an epidemic? Are we to assume that previous prevalence data missed no one?

Clearly we have historically miscounted autism in our population. We are getting better at it, and we still miss 40%.

“B) Autistic conditions can result from encephalopathy following vaccination. The US Health Resources and Services Administration (HRSA) confirmed to CBS News that of 1322 cases of vaccine injury compensation settled out of court by the US Government in secret settlements:”

Did you actually read what Ms. Attkisson wrote? More to the point, did you understand it?

“In fact, CBS News has found nearly 1,300 cases in which vaccine-related brain damage has been compensated in court over the past 20 years.”

Point 1: HRSA did not “confirm” this, CBS news found it by checking the records.
Point 2: Because CBS news found this by checking the records, clearly these aren’t “secret settlements”.
Point 3: these were settled “in court” not “out of court” as you assert.

Mr. Mnookin would be hard pressed to “deny” your statement as you have challenged. He could quite easily refute it.

Still waiting for Seth to answer anywhere. Silence from him on CHS, silence from him on Age of Autism and silence from him on his own blog.

Interesting though that the usual suspects rush over to post thinking that is a substitute for comment from Seth. Journalists don’t like it when other people don’t answer their questions so there is no excuse for a journalist not answering for himself.

“Still waiting for you to respond here to your multiple errors in your challenge.”

Already shown you either do not know what you are talking about or choose to sow confusion,

Time for Seth to start answering the questions. He is a journalist and he is remarkably quiet in the circumstances.

Go back to LBRB instead of trolling here. And notice that our comments are in the majority responses. Your’s are originating comments designed to provoke responses – and you are explicitly demanding responses.

This all of course has the appearance of attempting to answer in Seth Mnookin’s place when he clearly seems to lack the knowledge to answer and/or cannot answer in any event. Amazing really that he has had the front to attempt to write a book on these matters.

You are of course buying him time to try to get answers from others. We are waiting. It is his own blog after all.

Has Seth Mnookin got no voice of his own? He could quite easily come on his own blog and confirm he agrees the figures. You pop up trolling all over the internet. Why are you answering for him. This is his blog not yours.

Still waiting for Seth Mnookin, New York based journalist and author to answer the questions.

the last three words don’t make any sense. Wasn’t there an editor on the piece?

Twyla

5 years ago

@ Liz Ditz
“Homologous recombination is a type of genetic recombination in which nucleotide sequences are exchanged between two similar or identical molecules of DNA. It is most widely used by cells to accurately repair harmful breaks that occur on both strands of DNA, known as double-strand breaks. Homologous recombination also produces new combinations of DNA sequences during meiosis, the process by which eukaryotes make gamete cells, like sperm and egg cells in animals. These new combinations of DNA represent genetic variation in offspring, which in turn enables populations to adapt during the course of evolution.[1] Homologous recombination is also used in horizontal gene transfer to exchange genetic material between different strains and species of bacteria and viruses.”http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homologous_recombination

Apparently this is being compared to the tinikling dance, which ANB has already described. It is a very descriptive metaphore. The point is, injection of human DNA into infants may have unforeseen consequences.

“Tinikling” is a Filipino dance in which the dancer (traditionally a woman) steps between two long wooden poles (representing a bird-trap) held near the floor and drawn together and apart to the rhythm of the music. Perhaps Ratajczak is implying that vaccines are safe only when perfectly timed, otherwise crippling foot fractures may ensue.

I thought it was “tinkling” or maybe a misspelling of “tingling”, like tingling one gets from a stroke… Which is, in my opinion, something the writer of that “challenge” should be checked for. Grammar is all over the place, and some of those things aren’t even words!

Ms. Attkisson showed a distinct lack of professionalism when she forwarded a fax to the Age of Autism blog. One organization had faxed CBS in response to a piece she had done, and that fax was posted hours later on the Age of Autism blog. Clearly she is working together with that blog.

Btw Seth, on second looking, it seems you did not read the page on the website you are referring to, as it focuses on explaining the drop in infectious disease deaths, not infectious disease in general.

Btw, the search results (fourth from the bottom), shows that the quote from Attkisson’s earlier report about seizures and autism was from the Epilepsia paper, not the Archives of Neurology study:

Mr. Stone and Mr. Miller, if we went by young Master Crosby’s degrees of separation there could be made several ties between him a Big Pharma Shill. Like the fact he goes to the same university as Robert Goldberg who wrote Tabloid Medicine. As it stands, both Age of Autism and any articles by Master Crosby are silly, and pointless.

Liz D

5 years ago

[This comment has been deleted because the author was posing as another member of this forum.]

Sharyl Attkisson is one of the MOST responsible mainstream journalists covering vaccines and autism.

David Kirby is not “anti-vaccine”. For example, he wrote “Although some Park Slope parents refuse to vaccinate their children at all — an unwise and dangerous choice in my opinion… Parents who say the vaccine-autism link has not been debunked are, like me, hardly ‘anti-vaccine.’ Why on earth would anyone not want to protect children from dangerous diseases? That is the epithet hurled upon most of them anyway. And it’s what people will say about me as well, even though, as I said, I think parents should vaccinate their kids… The answer is not to stop vaccinating — that would lead to widespread disease and suffering. The answer is to find out which children might be particularly susceptible to which vaccines, vaccine combinations or vaccine ingredients, and devise a schedule that is individually tuned to their specific conditions. This will build parental trust and strengthen, not weaken, the national vaccine program.”http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/autism-vaccine-_b_817879.html

Kudos to Helen Ratajczak for writing this article about the studies she has reviewed, and kudos to Sharyl Attkisson for publicizing it. I hope that Helen Ratajczak will write more, now that she is free from the restrictions imposed by her prior career.

There are problems with vaccines. Serious problems which are adversely affecting many children. Those problems need to be studied and better understood, for the sake of both prevention and treatment — not just swept under the rug. Science has never disproven a link between autism and vaccines. A lot of evidence supports such a link. It’s not just a question of whether or not to do away with all vaccines.

Chris

5 years ago

Yet, the vaccines have been studied extensively over the past decade. There has yet to be any real evidence that has revealed they pose a risk greater than the diseases. This is something that is very important to understand when babies are dying from pertussis, and kids are being hospitalized for measles.

You not wanting to accept the results of the more than two dozen studies done in several countries does not alter the facts. Your own biases prevent you from actually looking at the data with an open mind, and has predisposed from every accepting results that differ from your preset conclusion.

In the future when you say “A lot of evidence supports such a link.”, try to actually provide the evidence. Just make sure it does not come from former travel writers, lawyers or researchers paid by lawyers.

Twyla

5 years ago

Chris, why are you telling me to provide evidence when you are not providing evidence? Your side loves to make vague statements about science proving vaccines are safe, don’t cause autism, and have less risks than the diseases — without providing any specific citations to studies. Fact is, the tracking of vaccine reactions is very poor, basic research has not been done by our govt agencies and mainstream medical organizations, such as studying the injured children to better understand vaccine injury, doing an epidemiological study comparing health issues in vaccinated and unvaccinated children, comparing animals who go through the standard vaccine schedule (adjusted for weight) with unvaccinated controls.

But there are thousands of reports by parents of toddlers suffering vaccine injuries followed by regression into autism. These reports are consistent with the vaccine package inserts listing conditions such as encephalitis, seizures and diarrhea as possible reactions, and consistent with cases of vaccine induced seizures, encephalitis, and encephalopathy paid out in vaccine court, and listed on the HRSA table.

And there are formal published studies such as those listed here:http://www.generationrescue.org/science/science
Don’t tell me, “Aw, that’s just Generation Rescue — they’re anti-vaccine!” GR just listed these links to studies, they didn’t conduct the studies, which are from a variety of sources.

Chris

5 years ago

Twyla: “Chris, why are you telling me to provide evidence when you are not providing evidence?”

Lack of Association between Measles Virus Vaccine and Autism with Enteropathy: A Case-Control Study.
Hornig M et al.
PLoS ONE 2008; 3(9): e3140 doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0003140
*Subjects: 25 children with autism and GI disturbances and 13 children with GI disturbances alone (controls)

Measles Vaccination and Antibody Response in Autism Spectrum Disorders.
Baird G et al.
Arch Dis Child 2008; 93(10):832-7.
Subjects: 98 vaccinated children aged 10-12 years in the UK with autism spectrum disorder (ASD); two control groups of similar age: 52 children with special educational needs but no ASD and 90 children in the typically developing group

Age at First Measles-Mumps-Rubella Vaccination in Children with Autism and School-Matched Control Subjects: A Population-Based Study in Metropolitan Atlanta.
DeStefano F et al. Pediatrics 2004; 113(2): 259-66
*Subjects: 624 children with autism and 1,824 controls

Prevalence of Autism and Parentally Reported Triggers in a North East London Population.
Lingam R et al.
Arch Dis Child 2003; 88(8):666-70
*Subjects: 567 children with autistic spectrum disorder

Neurologic Disorders after Measles-Mumps-Rubella Vaccination.
Makela A et al.
Pediatrics 2002; 110:957-63
*Subjects: 535,544 children vaccinated between November 1982 and June 1986 in Finland

Relation of Childhood Gastrointestinal Disorders to Autism: Nested Case Control Study Using Data from the UK General Practice Research Database.
Black C et al.
BMJ 2002; 325:419-21
*Subjects: 96 children diagnosed with autism and 449 controls

Measles, Mumps, and Rubella Vaccination and Bowel Problems or Developmental Regression in Children with Autism: Population Study.
Taylor B et al.
BMJ 2002; 324(7334):393-6
*Subjects: 278 children with core autism and 195 with atypical autism

No Evidence for a New Variant of Measles-Mumps-Rubella-Induced Autism.
Fombonne E et al.
Pediatrics 2001;108(4):E58
*Subjects: 262 autistic children (pre- and post-MMR samples)

Measles-Mumps-Rubella and Other Measles-Containing Vaccines Do Not Increase the Risk for Inflammatory Bowel Disease: A Case-Control Study from the Vaccine Safety Datalink Project.
Davis RL et al.
Arch Pediatr Adolesc Med 2001;155(3):354-9
*Subjects: 155 persons with IBD with up to 5 controls each

Time Trends in Autism and in MMR Immunization Coverage in California.
Dales L et al.
JAMA 2001; 285(9):1183-5
*Subjects: Children born in 1980-94 who were enrolled in California kindergartens (survey samples of 600–1,900 children each year)

Mumps, Measles, and Rubella Vaccine and the Incidence of Autism Recorded by General Practitioners: A Time Trend Analysis.
Kaye JA et al.
BMJ 2001; 322:460-63
*Subjects: 305 children with autism

Thimerosal Exposure in Infants and Developmental Disorders: A Prospective Cohort Study in the United Kingdom Does Not Support a Causal Association
Heron J, Golding J, ALSPAC Study Team
Pediatrics, September 2004, Vol. 114(3):577-583

As already pointed out above – and it is a matter upon which Seth Mnookin continues to remain silent:-

– The US HRSA has confirmed vaccines can cause autistic conditions.

– Merck’s current Director of Vaccines Division confirmed vaccines can cause autistic conditions – and that was when she was the Head of the US Centers for Disease Control.

– Autistic conditions can be caused by multiple vaccines as was conceded by the US Department of Health and Human Services in the Hannah Poling case.

– Autistic conditions can result from acute disseminated encephalomyelitis (ADEM) following MMR vaccination as held by the US Federal Court in the case of Bailey Banks.

– The increase in autistic conditions, diabetes, childhood asthma and obesity can only be caused by enviromental factors as was confirmed by the current Director of the US National Institutes of Health and leading geneticist Dr Francis Collins in evidence to Congress when he was head of the Human Genome Project.

– the rate in the USA is approximately 1 in 100 and in the UK it is 1 in 64

Just to point out that it is virtually impossible to run a site like Age of Autism without heavy moderation. Back in 2007 I was frequent contributor to JABS Forum. JABS Forum was not pre-moderated and it was quite a placid place until one day I submitted a Rapid Response to BMJ about Dr Ben Goldacre and his competing interests.

Whether there was a causal connection or not, but virtually from that moment (and a whole week before BMJ got round to posting my comment) the site was over-run by people who were fundamentally trying to stop anyone saying anything that did not fit in with public policy and propaganda, and indeed a lot of them seemed to be connected with DrGoldacre’s Bad Science Forum. It was mostly aggressive, unreasonable, disruptive stuff, and I and others spent an immense amount of time for about a year trying to respond as politely as we could, but the situation did become impossible and Jackie Fletcher who runs JABS had to take the decision to pull up the drawbridge, as it were. Basically, it was mobbing in cyberspace and it was designed to stop free expression of opinion and inconvenient facts.

But I have to say here that CHS has raised a substantive issue. Is Seth Mnookin suffering some kind amnesia about the statements of Julie Gerberding, and concessions made by the US government through the Vaccine Injury Compensation Programme, or did he never know? Either way it strikes at the very heart of his claim to be a popular authority on the subject.

Also, if Seth wants to post his answer on AoA or CHS he will most likely be very welcome.

Chris

5 years ago

Mr. Stone: “Just to point out that it is virtually impossible to run a site like Age of Autism without heavy moderation.”

Because it is really difficult to continue the lies when people post those annoying facts.

The the fact that the incidence of measles in the USA declined by more than 90% between 1960 and 1970. Or that Wakefield committed fraud, and there were questions about his study before 2001. Or that all pediatric vaccines have been available without thimerosal for ten years (even influenza!). Or that there have been vaccinated versus unvaccinated studies in the past with children being injured and killed (most of them were either disabled or in Africa). Or that chelation, stem cell therapy, and other bio-med quackery have injured children. Or that speculating on who certain bloggers are is incredibly lame.

You may be aware that I have different views on some of those subjects (and we could get very bogged down!!!) but I think it would be far better if focussed on the specific issues generated by this blog. Seth Mnookin criticised Helen Ratajczak’s citation of CHS, but CHS’s sources were impeccable and Seth should know that. Seth is supposed to be an expert on the subject, so why doesn’t he know (if he doesn’t)?

Chris

5 years ago

Whatever, Mr. Stone. There is a collection of blogs created because you moderate out the inconvenient facts. These are in addition to Respectful Insolence at ScienceBlogs, LeftBrainRightBrain and ScienceBasedMedicine that have several articles deconstructing the misinformation of AoA. These in included SilencedbyAgeofAutism, kwomblescountering and the ever erudite JABSloonies.

@ Twyla; how nice, you can C & P a Wiki entry about homologous DNA recombination. Now tell me how that occurs with random fragments of DNA with IM injection into a human recipient. Tell me how this would always lead to autism/”inflammation”. Looks like Ratajczak left that part out, ooops. But surely you can fill in that gap for me.

Twyla

5 years ago

No, science mom, of course I can’t. I was simply responding to Liz Ditz’s statement that “the last three words don’t make any sense” — simply trying to clarify what those words seem to mean — and I’m not even sure I’m interpreting correctly.

But I can clarify that as far as I know nobody said that “this would always lead to autism/inflammation”. Nothing ALWAYS leads to autism. Not everyone becomes autistic from the same toxic exposures, vaccines, nor genetic anomalies such as MET and Fragile X.

Twyla

5 years ago

Seth, Helen Ratajczak’s paper has almost three pages of references at the end containing something like 150 references to all sorts of sources, including some that you would no doubt like. As John Stone pointed out, the reference to the Child Health Safety page was simply a verification of the statement that, “The United States Government and Dr. Geberding, Director of Vaccines at Merck & Co., Inc. say that autistic conditions can result from encephalopathy following vaccination.” This CHS page includes a video of Dr. Gerberding making that statements, while she was still head of the CDC, and other references.http://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/2010/06/30/vaccination-causes-autism-%E2%80%93-say-us-government-merck%E2%80%99s-director-of%C2%A0vaccines/

Pretty silly to focus on this one thing and try to brand the whole paper as “anti-vaccine”. This is not scientific argument, logic, reason, nor sharing information — it’s simply stating that anything tarnished with the “anti-vaccine” label should be ridiculed and not taken seriously. That’s just prejudice and spin.

Of course, if you are going to cite a website like ‘Jabsloonies’ which is pure personal abuse from start to finish you ought not to expect anyone to take you very seriously, but it is only distracting from the matter in hand. What is the point of saying CHS cherrypicked the sources. The fact is that these things were said and done, and then quietly buried – and Seth seems to be suffering from the collective amnesia – even to the point of pretending that they can simply be dismissed because the are quoted by CHS. Well, I think Seth need to address the fact that thing were said and done, and it affects his credibility as a reporter.

Folks — I appreciate the robust conversation. I think after 50 comments everyone has had ample opportunity to make his or her point. At this juncture, I’m concerned the tenor of the discussion is focusing more on personalities and less on the actual issues involved, so I’m going to shut this down. There will be lots of chances for more debate in the future.

This is also a good time for me to lay out my comment policy. I will allow anyone to comment on my site, and I do not edit or check comments for accuracy — not because I think that would be a Herculean/Sisyphean task (which it likely would be) but because I’d rather give people free rein to make their views known than to stifle discourse.

There are three sets up circumstances in which I will exercise the right to pro-actively manage comment content. The first, and by far the most serious, is if a commenter begins making personal or ad hominem attacks. In this regard, I will operate on a two-strikes-you’re-out basis: The first time there is a personal attack, the commenter will get a warning; the second time, she or he will be permanently banned from the site. (There is one obvious exception to this, as anyone who has waded through the above can see: I’m much more lenient about allowing commenters to attack me than I would be if the target of the vitriol was someone else.)

The second is for readers who “spam” the site with comment after comment, all of which say the same thing. As a rule, I will not ban these readers from making future comments; however, I will re-set their permission protocol so that each new comment needs to be approved by a site administrator — i.e., me. Again, to be clear, these comments will not be held due to their content but due to their waste of (virtual) space…and again, as can be clearly seen by the above, I’m fairly lenient when it comes to this regard.

The third is exemplified by the current post: When it seems that a debate has run its course, I’ll shut down the entire discussion.

Thanks again for all of the passion and interest.

[EDIT: There is one further condition under which a comment will be deleted: If the commenter is trying to pose as another member of the forum in order to misrepresent his or her views, as was the case with one of the comments above. In those cases, the commenter is of course welcome to re-submit the comment under his or her real name — or under any name or nick-name that is not an attempt to deliberately mislead readers.]

[…] comes straight from the media itself, such as the CBS reporter Sharyl Attkisson, who has repeatedly and persistently reported on the purported link between vaccines and autism long after such a link […]

[…] it comes straight from the media itself, such as the CBS reporter Sharyl Attkisson, who has repeatedly and persistentlyreported on the purported link between vaccines and autism long after such a link […]

[…] editor at the site that sponsored the mentioned petition] involving Sharyl Attkisson, whose views regarding vaccines and autism have previously come through in her reportage. The CBS coverage seems to imply that somehow, […]