being is important, but so is becoming. when you see ripa it is this normal sensation we have when we see objects or exactly the same as when we look within. this normal sensation is emptiness. we have had this all the time, nothing new. just didnt recognise it for what it is.best wishes, Tom.

in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.

When we say "Knowledge" of the natural state is rigpa, by "knowledge" we mean gnosis not knowledge as in the acquisition of intellectual data, right?

"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche

White Lotus wrote:being is important, but so is becoming. when you see ripa it is this normal sensation we have when we see objects or exactly the same as when we look within. this normal sensation is emptiness. we have had this all the time, nothing new. just didnt recognise it for what it is.best wishes, Tom.

Tom,

I'm afraid rigpa isn't a sensation. All kinds of sensations and thoughts may arise when one is in rigpa, but they are not to be confused with rigpa itself or emptiness. And there isn't any looking in Dzogchen proper, whether within, without, or somewhere in between.

Have you ever received Dzogchen empowerment from an authentic Dzogchen lama? I'm just asking because I'm curious where you get your information from.

Fa Dao wrote:When we say "Knowledge" of the natural state is rigpa, by "knowledge" we mean gnosis not knowledge as in the acquisition of intellectual data, right?

By knowledge, we mean that you know what is being discussed. No need to gum up the works with fancy words like gnosis. In the beginning you need to acquire intellectual data. Then you need to apply it. This is all part of "rigpa".

If you say that rigpa is only a "gnosis" than this makes things more complicated --it means in order to have that knowledge you must already be awakened. But this is not the case. Rigpa is the knowledge you have that allows you to wake up. Rigpa is a complicated word in Dzogchen texts, and has different meanings in different contexts, but generally it just means knowledge, which in English is the antonym of ignorance (ma rig pa). Conceptual knowledge is inlcuded under the general definition of vidyā, this is a poorly understood point.

"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche

Fa Dao wrote:When we say "Knowledge" of the natural state is rigpa, by "knowledge" we mean gnosis not knowledge as in the acquisition of intellectual data, right?

By knowledge, we mean that you know what is being discussed. No need to gum up the works with fancy words like gnosis. In the beginning you need to acquire intellectual data. Then you need to apply it. This is all part of "rigpa".

If you say that rigpa is only a "gnosis" than this makes things more complicated --it means in order to have that knowledge you must already be awakened. But this is not the case. Rigpa is the knowledge you have that allows you to wake up. Rigpa is a complicated word in Dzogchen texts, and has different meanings in different contexts, but generally it just means knowledge, which in English is the antonym of ignorance (ma rig pa). Conceptual knowledge is inlcuded under the general definition of vidyā, this is a poorly understood point.

N

This should be explained thoroughly in every Dzogchen book ever written. Thank you very much, Namdrol, for finally clarifying this all-important term. Many people seem to talk about it as if it's just a state of nondistracted, nonconceptual awareness in which thoughts may arise but which do not become distractions from the recognition of awareness. This is actually the impression I've been under and so when I experience this, I think of it as rigpa, which may very well be a big part of what rigpa means, but does not sound like the full definition. I suppose this may have something to do with the many things ChNN has said over the years that make me just go, "HUH?" like in the My Reincarnation movie where he tells the student (paraphrased), "there is not really much to change, it is not like one day you are transformed. Practice is about discovering something and becoming aware of that knowledge and working with that knowledge" ... and also his repeated instruction to remain present when we are going about our daily activities. Becoming aware of how the mind works and being mindful of it seems to be what rigpa is about, if I am not misunderstanding something or going too far here.

"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron

Fa Dao wrote:When we say "Knowledge" of the natural state is rigpa, by "knowledge" we mean gnosis not knowledge as in the acquisition of intellectual data, right?

By knowledge, we mean that you know what is being discussed. No need to gum up the works with fancy words like gnosis. In the beginning you need to acquire intellectual data. Then you need to apply it. This is all part of "rigpa".

If you say that rigpa is only a "gnosis" than this makes things more complicated --it means in order to have that knowledge you must already be awakened. But this is not the case. Rigpa is the knowledge you have that allows you to wake up. Rigpa is a complicated word in Dzogchen texts, and has different meanings in different contexts, but generally it just means knowledge, which in English is the antonym of ignorance (ma rig pa). Conceptual knowledge is inlcuded under the general definition of vidyā, this is a poorly understood point.

N

True, but in Dzogchen Trechö rigpa is not conceptual knowledge, that also seems to be poorly understood.

/magnus

We are all here to help each other go through this, whatever it is.~Kurt Vonnegut

"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."- Longchenpa

"Even though you have recognized your essence, if you do not get accustomed to it,You will be carried away by the enemy of thoughts, like a small child in a battle field.So long as you are not free from the limitations of accepting and rejecting,That long will you not recognize the view of the innermost secret heart-essence."

Fa Dao wrote:When we say "Knowledge" of the natural state is rigpa, by "knowledge" we mean gnosis not knowledge as in the acquisition of intellectual data, right?

By knowledge, we mean that you know what is being discussed. No need to gum up the works with fancy words like gnosis. In the beginning you need to acquire intellectual data. Then you need to apply it. This is all part of "rigpa".

If you say that rigpa is only a "gnosis" than this makes things more complicated --it means in order to have that knowledge you must already be awakened. But this is not the case. Rigpa is the knowledge you have that allows you to wake up. Rigpa is a complicated word in Dzogchen texts, and has different meanings in different contexts, but generally it just means knowledge, which in English is the antonym of ignorance (ma rig pa). Conceptual knowledge is inlcuded under the general definition of vidyā, this is a poorly understood point.

N

True, but in Dzogchen Trechö rigpa is not conceptual knowledge, that also seems to be poorly understood.

/magnus

Conceptual knowledge is included in rigpa in tregchö -- this is why we have rig pa cog bzhag.

Namdrol wrote:By knowledge, we mean that you know what is being discussed. No need to gum up the works with fancy words like gnosis. In the beginning you need to acquire intellectual data. Then you need to apply it. This is all part of "rigpa".

If you say that rigpa is only a "gnosis" than this makes things more complicated --it means in order to have that knowledge you must already be awakened. But this is not the case. Rigpa is the knowledge you have that allows you to wake up. Rigpa is a complicated word in Dzogchen texts, and has different meanings in different contexts, but generally it just means knowledge, which in English is the antonym of ignorance (ma rig pa). Conceptual knowledge is inlcuded under the general definition of vidyā, this is a poorly understood point.

N

True, but in Dzogchen Trechö rigpa is not conceptual knowledge, that also seems to be poorly understood.

/magnus

Conceptual knowledge is included in rigpa in tregchö -- this is why we have rig pa cog bzhag.

N

I am afraid that makes no sense. Does ChNN say this?

/magnus

We are all here to help each other go through this, whatever it is.~Kurt Vonnegut

"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."- Longchenpa

"Even though you have recognized your essence, if you do not get accustomed to it,You will be carried away by the enemy of thoughts, like a small child in a battle field.So long as you are not free from the limitations of accepting and rejecting,That long will you not recognize the view of the innermost secret heart-essence."

padma norbu wrote: I suppose this may have something to do with the many things ChNN has said over the years that make me just go, "HUH?" like in the My Reincarnation movie where he tells the student (paraphrased), "there is not really much to change, it is not like one day you are transformed. Practice is about discovering something and becoming aware of that knowledge and working with that knowledge" ... and also his repeated instruction to remain present when we are going about our daily activities. Becoming aware of how the mind works and being mindful of it seems to be what rigpa is about, if I am not misunderstanding something or going too far here.

That nature is always there. If there is any light, any existence, any blood, any form, any thing at all, then the nature is already available. You don't need a coupon, a discount, a charge card, a bucket, anything. It's there. So there is nothing to worry about. All things have the same essence. Everything is perfect.

Kevin

"When we are following Dharma, any kind of Dharma - Sutra, Tantra - most important is that first of all we know our condition, not Dharma". - The maestro ChNN