There's no indication that Obama has changed his tax policy, which states that anyone making under $200,000 would get a tax cut under his administration, and nobody making under $250,000 would be hit with a tax increase.

So even Fox agrees that nothing has actually changed here at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fox News

But the Republican National Committee quickly blasted out an e-mail saying, "At this rate, it won't take long until Obama is again raising taxes on Americans making as little as $42,000 a year."

"When Barack Obama comes to your door this Halloween, there will be no treats -- just taxes," the e-mail said.

But the RNC is still spreading fear and lies, trying desperately to sway the sheeple back to their side. Desperation really does smell kinda funny, doesn't it. Sigh.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from... To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I am going to call all of my friends and relatives in Germany tomorrow and rub it in: I was right to come to the USA. Another penniless immigrant that has become rich, in what Germans used to call:

"Das Land der unbegrenzten Möglichkeiten" or in english: The country of unlimited opportunities.

Obama gives new meaning to that phrase. If you would have told me in 1974 when I came here, that we would have a black presidential candidate with a middle eastern name that proposes programs that will lead to hyper taxation of the middleclass, while we are in the middle of a war with middle eastern terroists I would have laughed and suggested that you get some better dope to smoke. Now that is our reality. Maybe it's time to start smoking dope again... inhaling and all

Not Quite. The problem is that Obama will not spell out specifics and his cronies are speaking more of the truth and getting caught There is no way with 60% of us paying taxes and 40% not paying taxes that 95% of all of us will get tax breaks on the back of the remaining 5%. On top of that, we have promises from him of (approximately) $1,000,000,000,000.00 in new spending

I don't know how the math can work. You already have US companies bearing one of the highest tax rates in the world and they are the bad guys. How will adding additional financial burden to them increase jobs? I would move to a more "business friendly" country. The problem with our "system" is the Barney Franks oversee the same people and companies that give them(and Dodd, Obama and others) "campaign contributions". Adding more regulation just increases the payments. When the Government started "demanding" companies give more loans to the people who could not afford them, the end was coming soon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by meese

But the RNC is still spreading fear and lies, trying desperately to sway the sheeple back to their side. Desperation really does smell kinda funny, doesn't it. Sigh.

Fear of a candidate that started his Presidential exploration less than 200 days into his first term as a Senator, you bet. Fear of a candidate that is a "Superstar" to the media, "untouchable" and cannot be asked any tough questions, you bet, fear of a candidate that has all his college teaching, state senate, college transcripts sealed, you bet, fear of a Chicago Politician who has no record and questionable advisiors, you bet!

As for the "Lies", both sides are guilty. There are many misleading statements both ways. Try to stomach MSNBC some night if you really want to see bias and lies!

The treatment of Sarah Palin is unconsciousable. Whatever your opinion of her "fitness of duty" the Lib Media (and actors and other Hippies ) were just plain NASTY. I can only imagine how "y-all" would react to the same treatment of Hillary, Pelosi or the like. I can only think of her kids at the rallies with the supporters of your candidate using the "C word" and putting it on Tee-Shirts, WHERE IS THE LIBERAL OUTRAGE??

With all the secrecy in the Obama Campaign, the rubber stamping of his legitimacy and the unregulated $$$ coming to him (from where??) and his NEVER working with Republicans on ANY legislation during his, albeit very short, career can only leave this country more divided than together.

I can only imagine the "Rodney King Like" response of the population if McCain actually pulls this out.

....But the RNC is still spreading fear and lies, trying desperately to sway the sheeple back to their side....

No, this has nothing to do with the RNC. Who gives a shit about some looser hacks? This is about the ever changing and lowering definition of "rich."

Like I said: "rich" is now anybody with a dime more than you!

Quote:

Originally Posted by joegottberg

....The problem is that Obama will not spell out specifics and his cronies are speaking more of the truth and getting caught There is no way with 60% of us paying taxes and 40% not paying taxes that 95% of all of us will get tax breaks on the back of the remaining 5%. On top of that, we have promises from him of (approximately) $1,000,000,000,000.00 in new spending....

No--not a problem at all, Joe. You know exactly what time it is, here: time to tax that ass!

BUT, as long as we're getting even with some imaginary, EVIL, rich dude, it's ok--until you realise that the rich dude is YOU!

Quote:

....I can only imagine the "Rodney King Like" response of the population if McCain actually pulls this out....

That's like the pot calling the kettle black (NO racial overtones intended). Who was more foolish: rioters or the response to them?! Then I was supposed to arrest Joe Q citizen who was carrying an automatic weapon (or any gun)? I don't F'G think so!

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech! To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Read about how France and Germany enjoy their welfare state. They both admit they are welfare states, and both are in trouble, with fewer and fewer people footing the bill each year for those who chose not to work.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from... To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

And McCain's camp is giving us more concrete details? Besides what Joe the Unlicensed Plumber thinks, that is?

OMG! Obama wants to spend a Trillion Dollars! And he's taking it all directly from you! That of course, is apart from the trillion that they've already spent on some made-up war, and the other trillion they're already spending bailing out banks, plus Wall Street, plus the auto makers, and the airlines, and the steel plants, and anyone else who can get themselves piled on in the name of saving the country from ourselves. How much of that money will you and I see directly as a benefit? And I'd be willing to bet there's at least another trillion in bureaucratic waste going on right now (ethanol, anyone?). Although I will admit that's not terribly likely to change no matter who takes office.

Quote:

Originally Posted by joegottberg

God save us (either way).

Now that I have a serious problem with, but then again, y'all probably already know that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by joegottberg

By the way, who you voting for or are you still undecided

I'm choosing the unpalatable over the disastrous. Y'all can guess which is which.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from... To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from... To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

And I'd be willing to bet there's at least another trillion in bureaucratic waste going on right now (ethanol, anyone?). Although I will admit that's not terribly likely to change no matter who takes office.

The way I figure it, if Obama wins, there's going to be destructive celebrating in the streets....If Obama looses, there's going to be destructive displays of unhappiness in the streets.

Certain circles refer to this type of behavior as more "late term" abortions--they just don't occure inside the local killing center.

Have a nice day!

Quote:

Originally Posted by meese

....So that pretty much proves your assertion wrong now, don't you think?....Although I don't fully disagree that these are merely symptoms of the new class warfare. Trouble is, those with the gold tend to make the rules, and those rules always favor them keeping their gold.

WTF? So if Fox News says it, it MUST be true? Well at least it wasn't PMSNBC! Look, worthless hacks WILL ALWAYS act like HACKS--including protecting their "gold!" That's part of why it's called it DA GOLDEN RULE. Things get interesting when anyone with a dime more than you is now included in Da Golden Rule!

Quote:

Originally Posted by meese

....Besides what Joe the Unlicensed Plumber thinks, that is?....

It's AMAZING how one UNLICENSED plumber could do in a FEW MINUTES what all the ADD mainstream media could not do in a FEW YEARS: reveal the truth about "THE Messiah!" Imagine what he could do if he were LICENSED?!

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech! To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from... To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Not to interject thoughtful commentary into this nice thread, but I thought I'd share this article I recently came across. Makes the point that "middle class" isn't so much an income bracket but more of a set of lifestyle abilities. ...and the conclusion is that it's gotten a lot more expensive to be middle class.

1. No more than 30% of net income is spent on housing, either to own or rent.
2. 6-8% of net income is saved--not including retirement IRAs or 401K plans.
3. No more than 15% of net income is spent on medical and dental expenses, including insurance.
4. The household can afford to pay tuition, fees and books for two household members living at home and attending a 4-year state university/college.
5. Food (including meals away from home) costs no more than 15% of net income.
6. The household can pay cash for a recent-vintage reliable used vehicle, and can support the one reliable vehicle and a "beater" old vehicle for secondary use; the household carries no auto loans.
7. The household pays off all credit card purchases monthly and carries no consumer credit balance.
8. The household can afford to take a domestic vacation once a year without incurring debt or tapping the 6-8% of income set aside for savings.
9. If the family owns a residence, the equity stands at a minimum of 50% of market value.
10. The household maintains at least 6 months' living expenses in readily accessible savings.

Maybe the conversation shouldn't be so much about taxes and income brackets, but instead about managing debt and the cost of food, housing, health care, and education?

Not to interject thoughtful commentary into this nice thread, but I thought I'd share this article I recently came across. Makes the point that "middle class" isn't so much an income bracket but more of a set of lifestyle abilities. ...and the conclusion is that it's gotten a lot more expensive to be middle class.

1. No more than 30% of net income is spent on housing, either to own or rent.
2. 6-8% of net income is saved--not including retirement IRAs or 401K plans.
3. No more than 15% of net income is spent on medical and dental expenses, including insurance.
4. The household can afford to pay tuition, fees and books for two household members living at home and attending a 4-year state university/college.
5. Food (including meals away from home) costs no more than 15% of net income.
6. The household can pay cash for a recent-vintage reliable used vehicle, and can support the one reliable vehicle and a "beater" old vehicle for secondary use; the household carries no auto loans.
7. The household pays off all credit card purchases monthly and carries no consumer credit balance.
8. The household can afford to take a domestic vacation once a year without incurring debt or tapping the 6-8% of income set aside for savings.
9. If the family owns a residence, the equity stands at a minimum of 50% of market value.
10. The household maintains at least 6 months' living expenses in readily accessible savings.

Maybe the conversation shouldn't be so much about taxes and income brackets, but instead about managing debt and the cost of food, housing, health care, and education?

If you asked most people who consider themselves "Middle Class", I think you'd find that criteria actually qualifies on the lower end of "Rich".

Not to interject thoughtful commentary into this nice thread, but I thought I'd share this article I recently came across. Makes the point that "middle class" isn't so much an income bracket but more of a set of lifestyle abilities. ...and the conclusion is that it's gotten a lot more expensive to be middle class.

1. No more than 30% of net income is spent on housing, either to own or rent.
2. 6-8% of net income is saved--not including retirement IRAs or 401K plans.
3. No more than 15% of net income is spent on medical and dental expenses, including insurance.
4. The household can afford to pay tuition, fees and books for two household members living at home and attending a 4-year state university/college.
5. Food (including meals away from home) costs no more than 15% of net income.
6. The household can pay cash for a recent-vintage reliable used vehicle, and can support the one reliable vehicle and a "beater" old vehicle for secondary use; the household carries no auto loans.
7. The household pays off all credit card purchases monthly and carries no consumer credit balance.
8. The household can afford to take a domestic vacation once a year without incurring debt or tapping the 6-8% of income set aside for savings.
9. If the family owns a residence, the equity stands at a minimum of 50% of market value.
10. The household maintains at least 6 months' living expenses in readily accessible savings.

Maybe the conversation shouldn't be so much about taxes and income brackets, but instead about managing debt and the cost of food, housing, health care, and education?

You are right about debt. I forgot (maybe Ben Franklin?) who said "spend a penny more than you earn and you will have money problems your entire life, spend a penny less than you earn and you will never have money problems", something like that.

Anyway whoever it was that said it, never met my Wife

How is taking the money from those managing their debt and living responsibly and giving it to those like me help our country become stronger?

I forgot (maybe Ben Franklin?) who said "spend a penny more than you earn and you will have money problems your entire life, spend a penny less than you earn and you will never have money problems", something like that.

Good philosophy that works well... until you retire, or lose an arm in a thresher. ...or get married in your case.

The Drum Major Institute puts middle class earnings between 25,000 and 100,000.
If I ever have kids they are paying their own college. I doubt many middle class can pay for a private college out of their pockets without scholarships. I agree that middle class is more about watching where your money is going, rather than salary based.

....Nah, no truth here, just another desperate last-ditch attempt to sway the voters with fear and lies about someone taking their own money....

AND that's the problem....It was NEVER "theirs" to begin with! That was ill-begotten (read: STOLEN) money from poor people. It's about time those middle class greedy bastards (read: RICH) start paying their fair share, for a change!

Quote:

Originally Posted by bonafidebob

....Makes the point that "middle class" isn't so much an income bracket but more of a set of lifestyle abilities. ...and the conclusion is that it's gotten a lot more expensive to be middle class.

1. No more than 30% of net income is spent on housing, either to own or rent.
2. 6-8% of net income is saved--not including retirement IRAs or 401K plans.
3. No more than 15% of net income is spent on medical and dental expenses, including insurance.
4. The household can afford to pay tuition, fees and books for two household members living at home and attending a 4-year state university/college.
5. Food (including meals away from home) costs no more than 15% of net income.
6. The household can pay cash for a recent-vintage reliable used vehicle, and can support the one reliable vehicle and a "beater" old vehicle for secondary use; the household carries no auto loans.
7. The household pays off all credit card purchases monthly and carries no consumer credit balance.
8. The household can afford to take a domestic vacation once a year without incurring debt or tapping the 6-8% of income set aside for savings.
9. If the family owns a residence, the equity stands at a minimum of 50% of market value.
10. The household maintains at least 6 months' living expenses in readily accessible savings.

Maybe the conversation shouldn't be so much about taxes and income brackets, but instead about managing debt and the cost of food, housing, health care, and education?

You in the "middle class" (read: RICH) have not been paying your fair share for quite sometime, now. Finally, you'll have to pay your fair share so all the other people that you have been stealing from for years can have some crumbs, also.

Have a nice day!

Quote:

Originally Posted by eljeffe

If you asked most people who consider themselves "Middle Class", I think you'd find that criteria actually qualifies on the lower end of "Rich".

Excellent analysis, Jeff. The definition of "rich" is being lowered daily, right before our eyes! I would suggest that anyone with a dime more than you must be rich.

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech! To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from... To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech! To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the BMW Luxury Touring Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:

Password

Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.