This was yet another failure by the Jedi Council. The prequels are plagued with their ineptness. Rebellion in their ranks. People changing the files in the library without their knowledge. The creation of a clone army while they were in the dark. The Dark Lord of the Sith right under their nose for years. A poor plan to arrest him once they figure some things out (well, after Anakin comes out and tells them). Putting Anakin and Palps together after they continue to say it's dangerous putting them together. Saying they are not soldiers, then conducting a war. Blaming the dark side for clouding everything. Not using common sense. Yoda failing against the Emperor. And it goes on and on. Their arrogance has blinded them as the wise Emperor said.

As early as the ANH novel Obi-Wan says of the Jedi Order that they were "too trusting for their own health", and that they failed to realise of the Republic that "while the body was still strong, the head was becoming diseased and feeble- leaving it open to manipulation by such as the Emperor."

They suspected Anakin had dark side tendencies and they suspected that the hidden Sith Lord was connected to the Supreme Chancellor. The plan I think was that Anakin's assignment would flush out the Sith Lord. I don't think they expected to get any useful intelligence out of Anakin.

Yeah er, were talking about a film here! Of which the Jedi are investigating the belief that the sith are controlling, or are someone in the senate.

Yeah, and the democracy of the Republic very much reflects the democracies of the western world, hence it is relevant to draw analogies between the two.

None of you have still come up with a valid point as to why they would they would refuse the Jedi their request? All I've heard is stuff like what I'm replying to. Aren't the Jedi conducting an investigation? But everyone in the senate is exempt from the investigation. Why? They are the Guardians of Peace and Justice are they not? I'd kinda say that the possibility of a Sith being in the senate is a threat to Peace is it not? So they haven't got total freedom to find who it is? Their Jedi. Their not gonna start torturing suspects! Crying out loud.

They suspected Anakin had dark side tendencies and they suspected that the hidden Sith Lord was connected to the Supreme Chancellor. The plan I think was that Anakin's assignment would flush out the Sith Lord. I don't think they expected to get any useful intelligence out of Anakin.

Seeing as Force users have the ability to mask their presence so as to remain hidden from others who may potentially sense them, perhaps it could be interpreted that in order to remain hidden a powerful enough Sith lord can actually mask his midi-chlorians so as to throw the Jedi off. Palpatine was a student of Darth Plagueis, after all, who was a master at manipulating midi-chlorians; while Palpatine himself never learned how to manipulate them in such a way as to prevent death like his master did, he may have learned other tricks from Plagueis before killing him.

Also, while midi-chlorians do go hand in hand with the Jedi's understanding of the Force, they in and of themselves are not the Force. Just like the Jedi and the Sith and any other individual that manipulates and utilizes the Force, midi-chlorians are their own entities and their presence does not necessarily mean that an individual has been trained in the ability to master control of the Force.

They suspected Anakin had dark side tendencies and they suspected that the hidden Sith Lord was connected to the Supreme Chancellor. The plan I think was that Anakin's assignment would flush out the Sith Lord. I don't think they expected to get any useful intelligence out of Anakin.

They suspected Anakin had dark side tendencies and they suspected that the hidden Sith Lord was connected to the Supreme Chancellor. The plan I think was that Anakin's assignment would flush out the Sith Lord. I don't think they expected to get any useful intelligence out of Anakin.

They suspected Anakin had dark side tendencies and they suspected that the hidden Sith Lord was connected to the Supreme Chancellor. The plan I think was that Anakin's assignment would flush out the Sith Lord. I don't think they expected to get any useful intelligence out of Anakin.

What was Anakins assignment again?

To spy on the Chancellor.

What was Anakins assignment in the eyes of the Chancellor?

I suppose Palpatine would assume that the council is trying to get Anakin to use their friendship to uncover the location of the Sith Lord.

Seeing as Force users have the ability to mask their presence so as to remain hidden from others who may potentially sense them, perhaps it could be interpreted that in order to remain hidden a powerful enough Sith lord can actually mask his midi-chlorians so as to throw the Jedi off. Palpatine was a student of Darth Plagueis, after all, who was a master at manipulating midi-chlorians; while Palpatine himself never learned how to manipulate them in such a way as to prevent death like his master did, he may have learned other tricks from Plagueis before killing him.

Also, while midi-chlorians do go hand in hand with the Jedi's understanding of the Force, they in and of themselves are not the Force. Just like the Jedi and the Sith and any other individual that manipulates and utilizes the Force, midi-chlorians are their own entities and their presence does not necessarily mean that an individual has been trained in the ability to master control of the Force.

So why bother with Anakin to begin with then? Yeah his midi chlorian count was high, well so what on that basis.

They suspected Anakin had dark side tendencies and they suspected that the hidden Sith Lord was connected to the Supreme Chancellor. The plan I think was that Anakin's assignment would flush out the Sith Lord. I don't think they expected to get any useful intelligence out of Anakin.

What was Anakins assignment again?

To spy on the Chancellor.

What was Anakins assignment in the eyes of the Chancellor?

I suppose Palpatine would assume that the council is trying to get Anakin to use their friendship to uncover the location of the Sith Lord.

So on that basis, the Chancellor must assume that the Council suspects him of being involved on some level?

None of you have still come up with a valid point as to why they would they would refuse the Jedi their request? All I've heard is stuff like what I'm replying to. Aren't the Jedi conducting an investigation? But everyone in the senate is exempt from the investigation. Why? They are the Guardians of Peace and Justice are they not? I'd kinda say that the possibility of a Sith being in the senate is a threat to Peace is it not? So they haven't got total freedom to find who it is? Their Jedi. Their not gonna start torturing suspects! Crying out loud.

Because they don't trust the Jedi, they aren't some super police who has the authority to do so. Palpatine and those anti-Jedi senators are going to tell others this is going to become a witch hunt.

Are they not? From what we see in the films the Jedi Order acts as an elite Republican Guard. They go where they want and they do what they damn well please. They can tell everybody to "go back to their drinks" because this is "Jedi business." They may talk about defending peace and justice but you've got to remember from the Phantom Menace that when the Republic's position on the taxation of free trade zones is threatened the Jedi leap into action but when there is a nest of slavery in a far away outer rim world that actually breaks "the Republic's anti-slavery laws" they pay it no attention. I think that from the evidence from the films they are a kind of super police that's goal is the protection of the Republic's authority.

None of you have still come up with a valid point as to why they would they would refuse the Jedi their request? All I've heard is stuff like what I'm replying to. Aren't the Jedi conducting an investigation? But everyone in the senate is exempt from the investigation. Why? They are the Guardians of Peace and Justice are they not? I'd kinda say that the possibility of a Sith being in the senate is a threat to Peace is it not? So they haven't got total freedom to find who it is? Their Jedi. Their not gonna start torturing suspects! Crying out loud.

Because they don't trust the Jedi, they aren't some super police who has the authority to do so. Palpatine and those anti-Jedi senators are going to tell others this is going to become a witch hunt.

Why didnt Palpatine and these anti Jedi senators kick up a fuss when the council put Anakin on Palpatine then? I mean, why didnt they turn round and refuse and say its spying? The Jedi can't do that, who do they think they are?

Why didnt Palpatine and these anti Jedi senators kick up a fuss when the council put Anakin on Palpatine then? I mean, why didnt they turn round and refuse and say its spying? The Jedi can't do that, who do they think they are?

Because that's exactly what Palpatine wanted, he knew Anakin didn't want to do it, that action was pushing Anakin to his side.

Are they not? From what we see in the films the Jedi Order acts as an elite Republican Guard. They go where they want and they do what they damn well please. They can tell everybody to "go back to their drinks" because this is "Jedi business." They may talk about defending peace and justice but you've got to remember from the Phantom Menace that when the Republic's position on the taxation of free trade zones is threatened the Jedi leap into action but when there is a nest of slavery in a far away outer rim world that actually breaks "the Republic's anti-slavery laws" they pay it no attention. I think that from the evidence from the films they are a kind of super police that's goal is the protection of the Republic's authority.

No, in EP I Qui Gon and Obi Wan were sent by Valorum to solve the issue, without the chancellor's permission they could not do so.

Seeing as Force users have the ability to mask their presence so as to remain hidden from others who may potentially sense them, perhaps it could be interpreted that in order to remain hidden a powerful enough Sith lord can actually mask his midi-chlorians so as to throw the Jedi off. Palpatine was a student of Darth Plagueis, after all, who was a master at manipulating midi-chlorians; while Palpatine himself never learned how to manipulate them in such a way as to prevent death like his master did, he may have learned other tricks from Plagueis before killing him.

Also, while midi-chlorians do go hand in hand with the Jedi's understanding of the Force, they in and of themselves are not the Force. Just like the Jedi and the Sith and any other individual that manipulates and utilizes the Force, midi-chlorians are their own entities and their presence does not necessarily mean that an individual has been trained in the ability to master control of the Force.

So why bother with Anakin to begin with then? Yeah his midi chlorian count was high, well so what on that basis.

Because a high midi-cholorian count merely means that the individual has more potential. I'm sure that there are plenty of individuals scattered around the galaxy with high midi-chlorian counts who have the potential to be great Jedi go unnoticed. Qui-Gon Jinn said so himself in The Phantom Menace: "Had [Anakin] been born in the Republic we would have identified him early and he would have become a Jedi, no doubt..."

Seeing as Force users have the ability to mask their presence so as to remain hidden from others who may potentially sense them, perhaps it could be interpreted that in order to remain hidden a powerful enough Sith lord can actually mask his midi-chlorians so as to throw the Jedi off. Palpatine was a student of Darth Plagueis, after all, who was a master at manipulating midi-chlorians; while Palpatine himself never learned how to manipulate them in such a way as to prevent death like his master did, he may have learned other tricks from Plagueis before killing him.
Also, while midi-chlorians do go hand in hand with the Jedi's understanding of the Force, they in and of themselves are not the Force. Just like the Jedi and the Sith and any other individual that manipulates and utilizes the Force, midi-chlorians are their own entities and their presence does not necessarily mean that an individual has been trained in the ability to master control of the Force.

So why bother with Anakin to begin with then? Yeah his midi chlorian count was high, well so what on that basis.

Because a high midi-cholorian count merely means that the individual has more potential. I'm sure that there are plenty of individuals scattered around the galaxy with high midi-chlorian counts who have the potential to be great Jedi go unnoticed. Qui-Gon Jinn said so himself in The Phantom Menace: "Had [Anakin] been born in the Republic we would have identified him early and he would have become a Jedi, no doubt..."

So we're just supposed to assume that then? That there's countless people walking around who could've been Jedi/ Sith. That's never mentioned. So every one of the Jedi were born on Coruscant. I mean how do the detect these force sensitive kids? How far can they throw their net?

Seeing as Force users have the ability to mask their presence so as to remain hidden from others who may potentially sense them, perhaps it could be interpreted that in order to remain hidden a powerful enough Sith lord can actually mask his midi-chlorians so as to throw the Jedi off. Palpatine was a student of Darth Plagueis, after all, who was a master at manipulating midi-chlorians; while Palpatine himself never learned how to manipulate them in such a way as to prevent death like his master did, he may have learned other tricks from Plagueis before killing him.
Also, while midi-chlorians do go hand in hand with the Jedi's understanding of the Force, they in and of themselves are not the Force. Just like the Jedi and the Sith and any other individual that manipulates and utilizes the Force, midi-chlorians are their own entities and their presence does not necessarily mean that an individual has been trained in the ability to master control of the Force.

So why bother with Anakin to begin with then? Yeah his midi chlorian count was high, well so what on that basis.

Because a high midi-cholorian count merely means that the individual has more potential. I'm sure that there are plenty of individuals scattered around the galaxy with high midi-chlorian counts who have the potential to be great Jedi go unnoticed. Qui-Gon Jinn said so himself in The Phantom Menace: "Had [Anakin] been born in the Republic we would have identified him early and he would have become a Jedi, no doubt..."

So we're just supposed to assume that then? That there's countless people walking around who could've been Jedi/ Sith. That's never mentioned. So every one of the Jedi were born on Coruscant. I mean how do the detect these force sensitive kids? How far can they throw their net?

What? I don't think that you are understanding what I'm saying. Most of the Jedi were discovered on planets where the Republic was in control, not just Coruscant. Tatooine simply happened to fall outside of Republic jurisdiction. So yes, odds are there are plenty of people out there who have the ability to use the Force but never received any training and were never told about their abilities. Note that in The Phantom Menace Qui-Gon makes mention of Anakin's excellent reflexes; without realizing it the Force is subtly impacting him. When he is finally discovered and trained by the Jedi he gains the ability to actually control these powers.

So what I'm saying is that there are plenty of people around the galaxy with high midi-chlorian counts that either were never found by the Jedi, or simply chose not to become a Jedi. A person having a high-midichlorian count does not automatically make them a Jedi or a Sith.

I suppose Palpatine would assume that the council is trying to get Anakin to use their friendship to uncover the location of the Sith Lord.

So on that basis, the Chancellor must assume that the Council suspects him of being involved on some level?

Yes. Point?

So why isn't he screaming from the rooftops?! I mean all these anti Jedi senators would have a field day with that wouldn't they? The Jedi suspect me of being a Sith this is scandalous how dare they! Makes asking politely for a midi chlorian screening a little trivial really.

Seeing as Force users have the ability to mask their presence so as to remain hidden from others who may potentially sense them, perhaps it could be interpreted that in order to remain hidden a powerful enough Sith lord can actually mask his midi-chlorians so as to throw the Jedi off. Palpatine was a student of Darth Plagueis, after all, who was a master at manipulating midi-chlorians; while Palpatine himself never learned how to manipulate them in such a way as to prevent death like his master did, he may have learned other tricks from Plagueis before killing him.
Also, while midi-chlorians do go hand in hand with the Jedi's understanding of the Force, they in and of themselves are not the Force. Just like the Jedi and the Sith and any other individual that manipulates and utilizes the Force, midi-chlorians are their own entities and their presence does not necessarily mean that an individual has been trained in the ability to master control of the Force.

So why bother with Anakin to begin with then? Yeah his midi chlorian count was high, well so what on that basis.

Because a high midi-cholorian count merely means that the individual has more potential. I'm sure that there are plenty of individuals scattered around the galaxy with high midi-chlorian counts who have the potential to be great Jedi go unnoticed. Qui-Gon Jinn said so himself in The Phantom Menace: "Had [Anakin] been born in the Republic we would have identified him early and he would have become a Jedi, no doubt..."

So we're just supposed to assume that then? That there's countless people walking around who could've been Jedi/ Sith. That's never mentioned. So every one of the Jedi were born on Coruscant. I mean how do the detect these force sensitive kids? How far can they throw their net?

What? I don't think that you are understanding what I'm saying. Most of the Jedi were discovered on planets where the Republic was in control, not just Coruscant. Tatooine simply happened to fall outside of Republic jurisdiction. So yes, odds are there are plenty of people out there who have the ability to use the Force but never received any training and were never told about their abilities. Note that in The Phantom Menace Qui-Gon makes mention of Anakin's excellent reflexes; without realizing it the Force is subtly impacting him. When he is finally discovered and trained by the Jedi he gains the ability to actually control these powers.

So what I'm saying is that there are plenty of people around the galaxy with high midi-chlorian counts that either were never found by the Jedi, or simply chose not to become a Jedi. A person having a high-midichlorian count does not automatically make them a Jedi or a Sith.

What about Palpatine? He was born on Naboo wasn't he. How comes they didnt discover him?

I suppose Palpatine would assume that the council is trying to get Anakin to use their friendship to uncover the location of the Sith Lord.

So on that basis, the Chancellor must assume that the Council suspects him of being involved on some level?

Yes. Point?

So why isn't he screaming from the rooftops?! I mean all these anti Jedi senators would have a field day with that wouldn't they? The Jedi suspect me of being a Sith this is scandalous how dare they! Makes asking politely for a midi chlorian screening a little trivial really.

Because the plan was to transform the Republic into an Empire via a military coup using contingency order 66. Palpatine didn't want the senate to start debating whether the Jedi are bad or not until they're all dead. Only then do you start talking about how evil they are. The last thing Palpatine needs is for the senate to totally agree with him and recall the Jedi from the battlefields of the clone wars. That would be a disaster of the highest magnitude for the grand Sith plan.

I suppose Palpatine would assume that the council is trying to get Anakin to use their friendship to uncover the location of the Sith Lord.

So on that basis, the Chancellor must assume that the Council suspects him of being involved on some level?

Yes. Point?

So why isn't he screaming from the rooftops?! I mean all these anti Jedi senators would have a field day with that wouldn't they? The Jedi suspect me of being a Sith this is scandalous how dare they! Makes asking politely for a midi chlorian screening a little trivial really.

Because the plan was to transform the Republic into an Empire via a military coup using contingency order 66. Palpatine didn't want the senate to start debating whether the Jedi are bad or not until they're all dead. Only then do you start talking about how evil they are. The last thing Palpatine needs is for the senate to totally agree with him and recall the Jedi from the battlefields of the clone wars. That would be a disaster of the highest magnitude for the grand Sith plan.