Because that would involve leaving their online "tough guy" act behind. The intetnet is all talk.

I do however see protests from the other side of the arguement.

i saw the thread on the petition from sandy hook residents to stop the "hoax issue", and actually asked the same question there shortly before
making this thread (due to my question being off topic, and my feeling that it would just get drowned by on topic chat, which is fair enough)

so far i have not recieved an answer from a poster who believed the shooting was a hoax.

i guess that a lot of the USA are only having their breakfast right now, maybe in a few more hours we'll hear some of their views?

First off, let me preface this by saying, I don't believe a violent revolution is necessary to get our country back on track. It can be done through
peaceful means. We've always had that power as a people, and we still do.

As to your question. What would it take for you to give up your children, wife, family, friends, home, and anything else you love. Because that's
what a revolution means. Those who fought in our revolution gave everything to fight tyranny. They lost the lives of those they loved, and in the end
gave their own life.

Add to that, would you be willing to be labeled a terrorist, or something worse on TV sets across your country for standing up for what is right?
Would you be willing to know that few(if any) people will ever know you were an honorable man fighting tyranny? Because that's what they will do to
you, and your memory. They will turn you into a scoundrel, instead of a hero.

Originally posted by Klassified
First off, let me preface this by saying, I don't believe a violent revolution is necessary to get our country back on track. It can be done through
peaceful means. We've always had that power as a people, and we still do.

As to your question. What would it take for you to give up your children, wife, family, friends, home, and anything else you love. Because that's
what a revolution means. Those who fought in our revolution gave everything to fight tyranny. They lost the lives of those they loved, and in the end
gave their own life.

Add to that, would you be willing to be labeled a terrorist, or something worse on TV sets across your country for standing up for what is right?
Would you be willing to know that few(if any) people will ever know you were an honorable man fighting tyranny? Because that's what they will do to
you, and your memory. They will turn you into a scoundrel, instead of a hero.

The cost is high. Are you willing to pay it?

thank you for your reply, i'm not referring to starting a revolution to deal with "general" problems in a nation.

i'm a father and ofc that is the most important thing in my life... if i felt that my government was using the life of my child, indeed the murder of
my child to achieve a political end, then i cant see any stronger provocation to an uprising - this is far stronger in my eyes than "no taxation
without representation" for example.

i dont feel, as i have seen stated elsewhere for example, that just withdrawing my child from school and home educating would be an answer to such a
vile crime, if that is what i believed was happening. the opinions of others on wether i was a terrorist or not simply would not come into the
equation.

so if the clandestine murder of many children is not enough tyranny to provoke action, then what is?

I understand you weren't talking about a revolution. But the actions taken against an individual will be similar. That's why I expounded upon it.

Until the atrocities are so in everyones face, they can no longer be ignored or rationalized away. Nothing will be done. There are many variables and
factors at play here, and I don't know if there is a pat answer to the question.

Each American has to answer that question for themselves. Americans are so divided, we don't trust each other, let alone our leaders. This plays
right into the hands of those subversive elements in our country who would love nothing more than to see this country devastated for their own
gain.

So honestly, I don't know what it will take to unite enough people to stand up and say, ENOUGH! Truthfully, I'm not so sure it will ever happen.
Americans as a whole, may already be too far gone.

The American government is powerful only because it's masses of society are literally drugged up and sedated, TV/media brainwashed and basically so
full of propoganda that their version of what is 'truth' is the lie which condemns the actual truth itself.

You could replace all corrupt people in governments and dismantle all conspirators within the government, yet more would come to replace them very
soon. The reason is that the American population is such a manipulable target that anyone with the right mind, and desire to manipulate, can see how
easy it will be and will likely commit to doing so.

Therefor, the only real solution lay in changing the fundamental state of mind of the American population in such a way that conspiracies and
propaganda no longer fill their minds so easily and they become free thinkers and act on those free thoughts.

Because of this, in answer to your thread, there is no reason to 'rise up'.. No 'enemy' to fight.

Think of it like an ecosystem with predators and prey. The prey are the American people and the predators are the corrupt sides of government (
meeting behind closed doors, coordinating and conspiring methods of control against the people ). You can't take out the predators without more
predators showing up to take their place, BUT you can teach the prey how to wake up.

thanks for your replies, indigothefish and klassified... from my own point of view i broadly share your opinions, and feel that much of the uk public
is quite similar in outlook..
neither of you sound like the kind of posters who feel that their is an overt compaign by govt/secret services etc to directly engineer school and
mass shootings.. am i right?
do you agree with the first poster that a lot of the chat is just internet posturing and tough guy talk?

Originally posted by Jefferton
It takes nothing these days. People have lost their minds. Anything and everything is claimed to be a conspiracy.

Believing everything is a lie is just as ignorant as believing it is true. But people are officially brain-dead. Ats is a good indicator of this.

“The individual is handicapped by coming face to face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists.” - J. Edgar Hoover"

The idea that governments meet behind closed doors and are largely connected through secret societies..
That the media is biased to the point of continueing the same agenda the corrupt government is pushing..
That religions are a psychological institution of control for the population..
That since ancient history the path of mankind has been lead by unseen forces, conspiracy against a free humanity..

Your welcome dude, this is a good thread I think that numerous youtube videos and 'conspiracy website posts' tend to fit 'alternative thinking'
into a stereotype that normally doesn't help the cause..

thaks for the feedback, this is my first thread besides my intro and the idea was kinda off the cuff as stated above..
i gotta admit the lack of a flag and slow activity made me wonder, but like i said earlier, i guess the timezone difference to here in the uk is a
factor, and i suppose i'm asking a kinda controversial/personal question, but thats why i'm on ATS, eh?

if it is the case that the government is responsible for mass shootings to push an agenda of gun control, then the first act of "rising up" deals
with getting the information out.

too few are yet willing to consider the possibility that the government would do such a thing, so the logical place to start would be spreading the
word. educating people about past government atrocities and scheming would be the best way.

if that is indeed the case, what physical action could a lone person take that wouldn't make things worse? any attempt to retaliate at this stage
would give more power to the DHS and provide fuel for anti-gun rhetoric.

the media has proved that information, and how it is perceived, is powerful.

thanks for replying, ATS is hardly the place to do this though, would you agree? preaching to the converted on a site with little in the way of
reputation amongst most folk (conspiracy crazies, they all think they have been abducted etc etc) is hardly effective.

do you think there is a lack of replies to this because a lot of the more vocal/vociferous advocates of the "hoax" theory are just full of hot air
and only want to take part in a partisan back slapping exercise? do they perhaps feel that their standpoint (the more extreme proponents) is not
defensible when under scrutiny?

it would be very hardly "preaching to the converted". if you have a look into threads dealing with the topic there is a lot of disagreement.
reputation has no bearing on the validity of a claim, and i've only seen a very small minority here claim to be abducted.

there are few replies because there are already many threads on the topic. whether or not the government orchestrates attacks to further an agenda
isn't a partisan issue, and you've already stated in the OP that this thread isn't about addressing evidence, but what it would take for
"conspiracists to rise up?".

well as i stated above i asked the question in a related thread and got nowt, so made this off the cuff - questioning people on their beliefs is part
of this site IMO, if people dont have the nuts to back up the strong things that they say or stand up for it when questioned then i think thats kinda
weak, wether you see my thread as baiting or not.

First of all, I would suggest that the majority of gun owners don't believe that the shooting was a conspiracy--just that politicians are using a
tragedy for political gain--so they woudn't "rise up" against a premise they don't believe.

Secondly, contrary to prejudices of the mis-informed, the average American gun owner is not a slavering madman and wants the system to work and still
thinks things can be achieved through the ballot box.

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