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Pastor Jëan Ross: Hello friends, this is Amazing Facts. In 2009, doctors in Russia thought that the 28-year-old Artyom Sidorkin had cancer. He was a smoker and he came to doctors coughing up blood, and complaining of incredible chest pains. An X-ray revealed a mass in one of his lungs and he was scheduled for surgery to determine the severity of the issue. But as surgeon Vladimir Kamashev began to cutting through his lung, he discovered something amazing. In the lung tissue he found green tree needles. He opened the area further and to his surprise found a 5-centimeter spruce tree in Sidorkin’s lung. “I blinked three times and I thought that I was seeing things,” the doctor said, “then I called out to my assistant ‘come and see this, we have got a fir tree here.’” A 5-centimeter sapling was removed and Sidorkin is now back at work and feeling much better. The doctors theorized that he must have inhaled a fir tree bud which grew into the 5-centimeter tree, and that the tree needles punctured the blood vessels in his lung, causing him to cough up blood. Did you know friends that the Bible says it’s a good thing to have something living inside of you? Stay tuned for more as Amazing Facts brings you this edition of Bible Answers Live.

[PROGRAM INTRODUCTION]

Pastor Jëan Ross: Good evening, friends. This is Pastor Jëan Ross. Pastor Doug Batchelor is out this evening but this is Bible Answers Live and if you have a Bible-related question, we’d love to hear from you this evening. Our phone number here to the studio, it’s free, it’s 1-800-GOD-SAYS, that’s 800-463-7297. That number again is 800-463-7297. This is a good time for you to give us a call. We have a few lines that are still open. One more time, 800-463-7297, that’s 800-GOD-SAYS. Working the phones for us tonight is Allen Davis, Executive Vice President at Amazing Facts. Allen, thank you for joining and helping out this evening.

Allen Davis: Hey, it’s good to be here Pastor Ross. Good to be with you again.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Would you begin with a word of prayer?

Allen Davis: I’d love to. Our Father in heaven, we thank You so much for the opportunity here to serve You and to entertain questions from those who are seeking Your Word. We ask now that our lips be anointed and everything, everything we have to say would come straight from Your Word in Jesus’ name, Amen.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Amen. Well, friends, we opened the program by talking about a rather interesting case, a gentleman by the name of Artyom Sidorkin in Russia, who was complaining of these chest pains Allen, and he went to the doc and they found out there was something growing in his lung.

Allen Davis: You know, as you were giving that amazing fact I started to think a little bit about a tree that was also mentioned in the Bible many, many years ago, and I thought of two of them. And I thought of the tree of life. But something tells me that was not the tree of life that was growing in him but there is also the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. But really, we’re supposed to have something else in us all the way.

Pastor Jëan Ross: That’s right. You know, the Bible speaks in several places about the importance and the need of being filled with the Holy Spirit. You see, if the Holy Spirit is living within us, our lives will reveal the fruit of the Spirit. And you might be wondering what is the fruit of the Spirit? Well let me read it to you. It’s Galatian 5:22-23 where we find that written, “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control, against such there is no law.” You see, when we have the Spirit of God living within us, the characteristics will be manifested of love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, etc. Those are good characteristics. That’s what we want. But how can we have the Holy Spirit living within us? Well, firstly, the Bible tells us we ought to ask for it. Jesus says, “We need to pray and ask.” But you might want more information on having a life filled with the Spirit, and we have a book entitled Life in the Spirit and we’ll send it to anyone who calls and ask for our free resource this evening.

Pastor Jëan Ross: The book again, is named Life in the Spirit. Just call and ask for that, and we’ll be happy to send that to anyone who calls. Well, we’re going to go to the phone lines now. Who is our first caller for this evening?

Allen Davis: Okay. It looks like our first caller is Argyle, listening to us on KFHL from Bakersfield, California.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Hi, Argyle. Welcome to the program.

Argyle: Hello.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Yes, you’re on the air.

Argyle: Yeah, okay, caught me off guard. I thought the show was over. I was listening to the radio and it wound down.

Pastor Jëan Ross: We’ve just begun. So you’re in the right place at the right time.

Argyle: Oh, okay. Well, my brother and I were brought up in a Sabbath-keeping church. It was called Worldwide Church of God, run by Herbert Armstrong. And we were taught that we had to keep the festivals, and after reading Doug Batchelor’s book The Richest Caveman inspired me to take Amazing Facts Bible courseand I learned a lot from that, and I have a different understanding now. But my brother still attends that church and he struggles with that.

He had a question that they can’t answer. And mainly, I think the one that gets him the most is Zechariah 14 that mentions that after Christ returns and, you know, brings heaven down or the heavenly city down to Jerusalem at the Mount of Olives, and it splits in two Olives, that is obviously His second coming, apparently. And so, apparently, He says, those who are left, I guess, alive of the nations had come out of tribulation will have to attend the festivals at Jerusalem.And he’s just wondering one of the Minor Prophets would make that prophecy, now I have learned to understand that probably was a contingent prophecy.

Pastor Jëan Ross: All right. Well, let me give you a few thoughts on this.In Zechariah chapter 14 there’s prophecies that relate both to the destruction of Jerusalem, which happened, of course, in 70 A.D., and then that happened even earlier during the time of Babylon around about 605 B.C. But it’s also got a typical type fulfillment. You’ve got the antitype and then the type. It’s got the antitypical fulfillment that happens at the third coming of Jesus. Now, let me explain.

You have the second coming, that’s when Jesus comes and the righteous are caught up to meet Him in the air. We then go to heaven for 1000 years, known as the millennium. You read about this in Revelation chapter 20. At the end of that 1000-year period, according to Revelation chapter 21 now, the New Jerusalem comes down from God out of heaven. It’s at that point that Jesus sets His feet upon the Mount of Olives, and the Mount of Olives opens up and forms a great valley, and the New Jerusalem also referred to as the beloved city in Revelation 20 comes to rest.

You have the resurrection of the wicked. They then, inspired by Satan, mount their attack upon the New Jerusalem. This is Revelation 20, “Fire comes down and devours them.” And then God creates a new earth wherein dwells righteousness. Then from one month and from one Sabbath, all flesh will come and worship before God. So Zechariah 14 not only speaks of destruction, which came to literal Jerusalem, it also speaks of destruction that will come to the enemies of God’s people, the final destruction of sin and sinners at the end of the 1000-year period.

Argyle: Why does the prophet mention that the nations will come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles there, and I didn’t understand that those festivals were picture, you know.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Yes. They were types and antitypes.

Argyle: Yeah. But my brother still thinks that when they say that they’ll be doing the sacrifice and all that, I know that’s not necessary, but his church teaches that is. And I don’t have an answer for him why the prophet mentions that.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Well, you know, again, he was speaking to Israel and speaking to them with reference to what they were doing, and to their experience. It did have a literal application and a literal fulfillment in their time with reference of the destruction of Jerusalem. But it’s also got that broader symbolic application. And, you know, it’s very clear that there’s going to be no need to sacrifice lambs and offerings, especially after sin and sinners are no more. We have Christ who is the Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world, so that has that symbolic, figurative application for yet a future event.

Argyle: Okay.

Allen Davis: In essence, the Feast of Tabernacles in the antitypical application, Argyle, is when all of God’s people actually tabernacle with Him for all eternity.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Right.

Allen Davis: So “He came to tabernacle with us in the flesh,” John 1:14, and the Word became flesh and tabernacled among us. And this was pointing to a future application where we would tabernacle with Him with the Feast of Tabernacles. If you look every single type within the Jewish festivals has an antitype. And so, the antitype is fulfilled in what we called the third coming of Christ.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Absolutely. Did that make sense?

Argyle: Yes. It does to me. I don’t know if that make sense to my brother.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Well, you know, we do have a book dealing with the feasts and addresses some of the types and the antitypes, and goes through the Feast of Tabernacles and the like. And if you would call our resource line and just ask for the book on the feasts, Feast Days and Sabbaths, I believe it’s called, we’ll be happy to send that to you, and you can read it and share it with your brother, and hopefully, it will help answer some of his questions. What’s the number for Argyle to call?

Pastor Jëan Ross: And the book, ask for the book talking about Sabbaths and feast days or holy days, and we will send that out to anyone who calls and ask for it. Who do we have next?

Allen Davis: Let’s see. Next we have Mark calling from Knoxville, Tennessee. He is listening to us on WITA. Good evening, Mark, you’re on the air. What’s your question?

Mark: Hi, thank you for taking my call. This is a follow-up question I asked about a month and a half ago regarding Revelation 17 and the destruction of Rome.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Yes.

Mark: And Doug told me that, you know, when Benedict resigned, I was calling about that and he told me he thought that Benedict was sort of a temporary pope while they were grooming for a pope to come, and I was wondering now that Francis had been elected if he maybe the one that the Catholic Church was grooming. And the reason I connect the pope with the destruction of Rome is because there’s a 12th century prophecy by St. Malachi predicting the destruction of Rome while Peter the Roman is the pope. And Pope Francis is the number that is right for Peter the Roman, number 112th.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Right. You know, it’s interesting, I have heard a little bit about that. I’m, by no means, an expert dealing with Roman Church or Catholic Church history, but what is interesting is that there has been, especially during while Pope John Paul II and then again, the election of this pope, there has been such a resurgence of interest in the Vatican and into the papacy. And in the influence of the papacy, it’s just astounding to me.

This pope seems to be very charismatic. He seems to be able to appeal to a broad-base of supporters in different countries. The things that I have heard, and probably everyone else has heard with reference to the media is just accolades and praises. But what I find interesting is that this pope is the first Jesuit to be ever elected as pope. Now, of course, if somebody goes back and did some research on who the Jesuits are, you can learn some interesting things. So, you know, we’re going to have to wait and see how all of this plays out. We know the Bible has given us some very clear direction in Bible prophecy, who the key players are at the end. We’re going to have to wait and see.

Allen Davis: You know, also Pastor Doug just recently did a sermon on New Pope: Old Prophecy. And I believe we can actually find that on the amazingfacts.org website. If you put a search in there, just recently put that up there. And it is a very interesting concept simply, because we’ve had the first pope to resign and six centuries and the last one resigned, because there were two popes at the time. So there was a conflict of interest. But it’s very interesting that not only do we have a resignation but we do have the first Jesuit pope, and there are some theological implications there.

Pastor Jëan Ross: A lot of questions that’s being asked as to what does this mean, and how does this play out? So, you know, we’re going to have to wait and see. We do have some study material dealing with this. First of all, let me remind you of the sermon that Pastor Doug preached, I hope it’s edited enough online.

Allen Davis: I believe it is.

Pastor Jëan Ross: It’s a fairly new one. If you go to the Amazing Facts website, just amazingfacts.org, and you type in New Pope, I’m sure you will be able to find the sermon and you can listen to it online, Mark or anyone. And then one of the study guides that we have that deals with this prophecy in Revelation chapter 17 is entitled, The Other Woman. And you can call and ask for that study guide, we’ll be happy to send it out to anyone who does. The number to call again for the resource?

Allen Davis: The number is 800-835-6747.

Pastor Jëan Ross: And the study guide is entitled, The Other Woman. Thanks for calling, Mark. Who do we have next?

Allen Davis: All right. We have next Aaron, listening to us on the internet from Silver Spring, Maryland. Good evening, Aaron. You’re on the air.

Aaron: Hello. Oh, man, this is so fantastic. Okay. So my question, I’ll get right to it. In Mark 15:25, it says, “Now it was the third hour, and they crucified Him.” So the third hour is 9 o’clock in the morning, and then during the sixth hour which is noon until the ninth hour which is 3 PM, it was darkness. So Jesus was on the cross in the third hour until the ninth hour, correct? All right. Now I found a troubling text when we turn to John 19:14, and it says, “Now it was the preparation day of the Passover, and about the sixth hour and He said to the Jews, Behold your King.” And this is in the context of Jesus being before Pilate. And so, my question is, what is Jesus doing at the sixth hour, not on the cross but with Pilate?

Pastor Jëan Ross: All right. Let’s see. Let me read it here for those who don’t have it in front of them. It says, “Now it was the preparation day of the Passover, about the sixth hour and He said to the Jews, Behold your King.” So this would be Pilate speaking with reference to Jesus, and their response in verse 15 is “Away with Him, away with Him, crucify Him.” That’s what the crowd had to say in response to what Pilate was saying. So your question is, what do we mean here by the sixth hour, is that what you’re wondering?

Pastor Jëan Ross: All right. I think an apparent inconsistency would be reconciled by the word “about.” In other words, John is not specific on it, but he’s saying, “It’s about the sixth hour.” Some of the other Bible writers are a little more specific as to the time. John is saying, “It’s about the sixth hour.” So there is some flexibility. We’d have to go and take a closer look at some of the other references on that time period.

Aaron: Three-hour flexibility?

Pastor Jëan Ross: Well, “about,” you know, I guess that would have to be the conclusion.

Aaron: Because, remember, in Mark’s account it says the third hour He was put on the cross.

Allen Davis: Let me offer just a little bit of insight here, too. He was put on the cross at the third hour, which is 9 o’clock in the morning, according to Hebrew reckoning. They were using 6 o’clock for the words the first hour began. Now, John is writing in more of a Roman context. The sixth hour in Roman reckoning would be 6 o’clock in the morning, which would then harmonize to have Him be put on the cross at 9 o’clock in the morning. And therefore, that would be the third hour according to Jews reckoning. Does that make sense?

Aaron: That makes beautiful sense.

Allen Davis: There you go.

Aaron: The only other problem is if we turn back to John chapter 4 we see the woman at the well.

Allen Davis: Right.

Aaron: And Jesus goes at the sixth hour, which is clearly noon.

Allen Davis: Okay.

Aaron: So unless he switches in his own gospel over from Hebrew to the Roman reckoning. You know what I’m saying?

Pastor Jëan Ross: Right.

Allen Davis: Yeah. That makes sense.

Pastor Jëan Ross: That’s why it is a difficult verse. And that’s probably why we need to study that. There is an explanation as given with reference to switching from the Hebrew to the Roman time calculations. But other than that, we don’t know. That would be where it’s at.

Aaron: Could I suggest just one thing?

Allen Davis: Sure.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Sure.

Aaron: I mean, I would like you guys doing an input as possible, that’s why I called. But from my understanding, for me personally to reconcile it, it says, “About the sixth hour,” and you could say about the sixth hour from His arrest in the garden. You know what I’m saying? Just say He was arrested earlier in the morning, like, around 3 in the morning, right? Six hours later, would take it to 9 in the morning. And then it could be consistent. Does that make sense?

Allen Davis: It does make sense. It’s something that would probably require a little bit more study and a good, thorough analysis of Jesus amongst the Scriptures within the four gospels just to make sure we harmonize that.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Yeah, the typical, and that is an interesting point. We’d have to look at that. Typical explanation is that he is using the Roman means of reckoning time versus like you pointed out in earlier in John, he uses the Hebrew system.

Allen Davis: The only other thing that I could think of at this particular time, not able to open a concordance and look at this more thoroughly, when we were talking about in John chapter 4 we were talking about people who understand the day that its reckon from sundown to sundown or twilight to twilight. So it makes sense that he’s writing about this encounter with a woman at Samaria, saying the sixth hour of the day would be approximately noon, whereas when we were talking about the crucifixion we’re talking in more of the Roman context, because now we’ve brought Pilate, and the Roman soldiers, and the Roman government into play. I’m not saying that is the answer. I’m just saying that’s something that’s possible to be considered.

Pastor Jëan Ross: That’s a good point. Yeah.

Allen Davis: Yeah.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Well, Aaron, that’s a good question. Something for us to study out. We appreciate your call. All right. Who do we have next?

Allen Davis: Next we have on, looks like we lost one, it’s going to be on line 8, we have Craig from Des Moines, Iowa, listening to us on the internet. Craig, you’re on the air.

Craig: Yeah, so I’m a regular caller. Pastor Ross probably knows.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Hey, Craig, good to hear from you.

Craig: Well, I got a real good one and it is funny, because your first caller had almost the same exact question, but mine’s just a little different. It’s in Revelation 20. And, you know, after the 1000 years, the earth is completely deserted, there’s no buildings, no cars, no nothing, right?

Pastor Jëan Ross: At the beginning of the 1000 years? Yes.

Craig: At the end of the 1000 or, you know, when the earth is destroyed.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Sure, sure.

Craig: There’s nothing left.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Okay.

Craig: Now at the end of that, Satan gathers his people which are the dead, unsaved dead, which are on the earth. He gives them … on the earth, right?

Pastor Jëan Ross: They’re resurrected.

Craig: They’re resurrected, I mean. And then they go to fight against the holy city, but what did they fight with, I mean, you couldn’t make a tank or a missile with nothing there?

Pastor Jëan Ross: That’s a good question.

Craig: That’s my question.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Right, right.

Craig: Did they throw rocks at them, I mean, you know?

Pastor Jëan Ross: You know, the Bible describes the wicked as being as the sand of the sea, as Gog and Magog. So, I mean, you can just imagine, you’ve got every person who’s ever lived on the earth at the same period of time.

Craig: Yeah, billions. Yeah.

Pastor Jëan Ross: And supernaturally God must just provide additional landmass for everyone to stand. But, you know, when we read through Revelation chapter 11 and it speaks about what happens at the end of the 1000 years with the New Jerusalem coming down from God out of heaven, you know, the wicked being resurrected, it seems in reading, you know, it’s just a few verses, but there’s a lot that takes place during that time period.

You have the wicked who are resurrected. There is what’s referred to in Revelation chapter 20 as “the great white throne judgment.” You have in essence every person having an opportunity to realize or see where they had rejected Christ, and how God had done everything that He could to save them, and they stubbornly refused to come to Him. At the end of that judgment, every knee bows and every tongue confesses that Jesus is Lord. Even Satan himself, just by the volume of the evidence has to actually knowledge to say, you know, He’s right.

That’s not a confession of recognizing that he was, you know, having repented, but rather just the evidences says, “Yeah, you’re right.” He then goes and actually musters the wicked, gathers them, and says, “You know, we can take the city, look at our numbers.” And he goes up against the New Jerusalem, and that’s where the wicked are destroyed just trying to overrun the city.

It’s sort of a last-ditch effort. It’s like somebody who realizes they’ve lost and he’s going to go down, but he’s going to try and take as many people down with him as possible.

Craig: Excellent. Yeah. And do you have time for real quick one?

Pastor Jëan Ross: Sure.

Craig: This is a real simple answer for you. Pastor Doug and yourself, I believe mentioned that you guys are coming out with a Bible timeline?

Pastor Jëan Ross: You know, we’ve been working on a Bible timeline. And I don’t know exactly what the date is going to be when we’re going to have that finished, but that is something in the works. We’ve been making some pretty good progress of late.

So stay tuned for more of that. We’ll let you know for sure when that comes out. But it’ll be a very through, detailed timeline on history, according to the Bible, starting with Adam and Eve and going all the way through to our day.

Allen Davis: You know, Craig, just so you know, anytime you undertake such a project like this, there are a lot of bugs that need to be worked out, and quite frankly, that’s what we’re working with right now is getting a lot of the bugs worked out, so that we can produce the best possible product when it comes out.

Craig: Just trying to do my own when you first mentioned it, and I was just getting started, and then you guys said you’re coming out with one, I said, “Oh, that will be a lot better than I wrote,” so.

Pastor Jëan Ross: I believe all the data’s already been inputted into the system that was built for this timeline. It’s just a matter of getting it fine tuned. And I’m looking forward to it. I think it’s going to be a great resource that people are going to be able to use. You know Craig, we do have a study that talks about this 1000-year period. We referred to it as the millennium, Revelation chapter 20. And we can send it to you or anyone who calls and ask for it. It’s called 1000 Years of Peace. And if you’d call our resource line and ask for that, we will send it out to you. Number again?

Allen Davis: All right. Craig, you just need to call 1-800-835-6747. Again, 1-800-835-6747.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Study guide is entitled 1000 Years of Peace. Let’s see if we have time for one more caller before our break.

Allen Davis: All right. We have Beth listening to us on the internet from Howard, Ohio. Hello, Beth, good evening, you are on the air.

Beth: Good evening. How are you guys doing?

Allen Davis: Doing well. Thanks.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Doing well.

Beth: Hey, a very interesting question, that my son had been investigating Leviticus 19 and then Leviticus 20:13. And it talks about eating meat that has blood in it, and then it talks about, I guess, we would translate into shaving. And then it talks about tattooing your body, or, you know, cutting it for the dead.

And then it goes into the homosexuality. And it’s all kind of lumped up in there and he’s like, well, these are ordinances of Moses. But, you know, what are we going to save and say, you know, this is deeper and more important, and what are we to - I don’t want to say ignore - but, you know, it’s not as relevant today.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Okay. Good question. Well, in the Old Testament we find four families of laws. I’m going to quickly go through that for you. They’re not always separated individually, but sometimes they interchanged or they’re mixed up together.

You have the law of God, which is the moral law. You also have health laws that you find in Scripture. You find ceremonial laws. And then you find civil laws. And, as I said, they’re sometimes mixed up. They’re not all in separate areas of the Old Testament. The moral law stands. It’s always been the same. Sin is defined as transgression of God’s law. We have the ceremonial laws, the sacrificial system that pointed forward to Christ and that came to an end when Jesus died on the cross, that we’re certain.

Civil laws, the principles of which are binding today, although, we don’t have a theocracy, but nations that follow the principles of God’s civil authority or civil law, they’re blessed and they’re encouraged. And then we have some other laws speaking about health. Now we’re going to take a short break here and then get right back with your question, Beth. So if you’ll just stay on the line, we’ll be able to come back and talk a little more about this. You’re listening to Bible Answers Live.

Beth, we have a few minutes now before our actual break that starts. Let me finish up with your question. With reference to Leviticus chapter 19 and 20, there is a mixing of both moral law, for example, you mentioned homosexuality, that would fall into the moral law category. There are also aspects relating to the ceremonial law that you’d find in chapter 19 and 20, as well as some of the health laws. Now the health laws deal with practical principles that are applicable today just as it was back in that time. And so, when we read these Old Testament passages, it helps for us to realize that there are these four kinds of law, and to look is this applying more to God’s moral law, or is this applying more to a health principle or a ceremonial law, ceremonial principle. Does that make sense?

Beth: Yes.

Pastor Jëan Ross: All right. Thanks for your call, Beth. You can hear the music playing. Friends, we’re not going away for too long. We just have some important announcements to give you. We’ll be back in just a few minutes with more questions.

[COMMERCIAL BREAK]

Pastor Jëan Ross: Hello friends, you’re listening to Bible Answers Live. This is a live interactive international Bible study and if you have a Bible-related question, we would love to hear from you. We have three lines that are currently open. So if you would like to get to your phones and give us a call, there’s a good chance that you’ll be able to get on tonight’s program. The number to call is 800-463-7297. That number again is 800-463-7297, 800-GOD-SAYS, 463-7297. Who do we have next, Allen?

Allen Davis: All right, going to the lines we have Steve calling from Walla Walla, Washington on KLRS. Steve, good evening, you’re on air.

Steve: Hello?

Pastor Jëan Ross: Hi, Steve.

Allen Davis: Hey, Steve.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Welcome to the program.

Steve: Hi.

Pastor Jëan Ross: And your question tonight?

Steve: Oh, my question. Okay, so my question is, you know, how in the New Testament Jesus was called “Lord” by the people, right? So, did they use, like, the Hebrew word for Lord that they used in the Old Testament?

Pastor Jëan Ross: When Jesus was actually on the earth, and for example, in the gospels, and they referred to Jesus as Lord, that would be a term that we would probably be used today as rabbi, teacher, or master. That’s a little different than the term that you’d find in the Old Testament, capital L-O-R-D, that was the word “Lord” there has been translated as Yahweh or Jehovah, so that didn’t referred to Jesus as Yahweh.

There were some times however, that Jesus referred to Himself as Yahweh. Not by that name, but He said, “I AM.” When He said the word “I AM,” when they came to arrest Him, that was in the same way that God said to Moses, when God told Moses to go out to Egypt, “Tell the people that the ‘I AM’ that “I AM” has sent you. So Christ did refer to Himself by that term.

Steve: All right. Thank you very much.

Pastor Jëan Ross: All right. Thanks for your call, Steve. You know, we do have a book entitled, The Names of God and we’ll be happy to send that to anyone who calls and asks for it, dealing with the different names in Scripture for God. What’s the number to call for that, Allen?

Allen Davis: All right. The number you can call is 800-835-6747. Again, 800-835-6747. And it looks like our next caller is Priscilla, calling from Guam. She’s listening to us on Joy 92. Good evening, Priscilla, you’re on the air.

Priscilla: Hi.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Hi, Priscilla. And your question tonight?

Priscilla: My question - I got two actually. I’d like to know how old the earth is as of today. And my second question is, abomination of desolation the same as man of lawlessness?

Pastor Jëan Ross: Okay. All right. Let’s go back to that first. We’ll take the questions in the two parts. What was the first question? I’m sorry, I missed that.

Allen Davis: How old the earth is?

Pastor Jëan Ross: Oh, how old the earth is?

Priscilla: Yeah.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Well, we don’t know exactly how old the earth is, but based upon the Bible timeline we’re right around 6000 years.

Priscilla: 6000.

Pastor Jëan Ross: And the way that you reach that is the Bible gives us rather detailed accounts of during the patriarchal period, it says Adam lived for so many years, and he had a son, and his son lived for so many years, and he had another son, and so on and so forth. So if we add up the ages of the patriarchs, the earth is about 6000 years old.

Priscilla: Okay. Thank you.

Pastor Jëan Ross: And the second question was the abomination of desolation?

Priscilla: Yes.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Yes. Are you referring to that as we find it in Mathew chapter 24?

Priscilla: Yes, and 2nd Thessalonians chapter 2.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Okay. All right. The abomination of desolation you find in the book of Daniel, that’s the first reference to it. And then you find Jesus in Mathew 24 referring to the abomination of desolation. And then you also referred it, it’s found not by those terms but “the man of lawlessness” or “the man of sin” is the phrase that Paul uses. The abomination of desolation in Mathew chapter 24 refers to the Roman Empire and Titus when they came and surrounded Jerusalem in 70 A.D. and destroyed it. But Rome has two components. It has the pagan form, which we find destroying literal Jerusalem. Then we find the papal form of Rome. And the term “abomination of desolation,” especially in a prophetic sense can refer to not only literal Rome, or pagan Rome but also Papal Rome as it relates to end-time events, as we see that in Bible prophecy. And, yes, that does also tie in with “the man of sin” or “the son of lawlessness” that you read about by Paul in Thessalonians.

Priscilla: Okay.

Pastor Jëan Ross: We do have a study guide dealing with this, and we’ll be happy to send it to you, Priscilla, or anyone who calls and asks for it. It’s called Who is the Antichrist? and I think you’d find it very interesting, very detailed study. To receive that study guide, just call our resource line.

Allen Davis: 800-835-6747. And that number again, is 800-835-6747.

Pastor Jëan Ross: The study guide is entitled Who is the Antichrist? Call and ask for it, and we’ll send it out. Our phone number here to the studio is 800-463-7297, that’s if you have a Bible question, 800-463-7297.

Allen Davis: Next on the line is Emmanuel. He is listening to us on the internet from (inaudible) New Mexico. Good evening, Emmanuel, you’re on the air.

Emmanuel: Good evening, Pastors.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Hi, Emmanuel.

Emmanuel: I had a quick question. I was reading in the book of Luke, chapter 7, it talks about Jesus coming into Capernaum, and the centurion, you know, the one that the servant healed, and when he gets to Jesus and he tells them--

Pastor Jëan Ross: You’re looking for the verse?

Allen Davis: Hello, Emmanuel? Are you still there?

Emmanuel: Oh, sorry. Sorry about that. He talks to Jesus, and he tells them that, you know, “I’m not worthy for You to come under my roof, but you know, You just say the word, and my servant will be healed.” And then he also told Jesus, you know I’m also under authority. You know I tell people to do this and they do that. And then, you know Jesus marveled and says, you know, well, that’s faith and everything. But I was just wondering if you could explain, you know, how did this really show his faith? Because, you know, there’s lots of people, you know, that were claiming rules and, you know, put their body down for Jesus to heal and everything. I was just wondering if you’ll just shed some light on.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Oh. Great question. Jesus marveled at the faith of this centurion, and He said to the Jews that were standing with Him, “I’ve not seen so much faith, no, not in Israel.” It was a rebuke to the Jews. Here was somebody who was not a Jew, who was manifesting great faith, whereas the Jews weren’t. How was he manifesting this great faith? Well, the centurion came to Jesus and said to Him, “You know, my servant is sick, even at the point of death.” Jesus said, “I’m going to come and heal him.” And the man felt unworthy to have Jesus enter into his house. And yet, he recognized that Christ had the ability, He had authority simply to speak. And whatever He says, it will happen.

Now, that took faith. That took faith to believe that whatever Christ would say would always take place. And that’s why Jesus marveled. The centurion said, “Speak only the word, and my servant will be healed.” So that’s a demonstration of great faith. You know, we have Christ’s Word in our hands, in the Bible, but sometimes we don’t believe what He says. And that’s evidence of a lack of faith, but when we take God at His word, that’s evidence of great faith.

Allen Davis: Absolutely. And you know, when we look at these two Emmanuel, a little more carefully and that the Hebrews understood the origin of the universe, and that God spoke everything into existence. And Jesus knew who He was, and He understood. And somehow or another, this centurion made the connection that this was more than just a man, more than just a prophet. And he uses the idea of, “Look, I’m a man who has authority, I tell soldiers what to do, they go do it.” He understood that no matter what Jesus said, that it would come to pass. And it wouldn’t come to pass five minutes from now, five hours from now, but immediately. And that connection right there demonstrated his understanding of who Jesus really was, and the lack of faith on the people who had the written Word, and they missed it.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Right. And they didn’t receive it, didn’t believe it. You know, back in Genesis chapter 1, we read how did the earth was created. It says God spoke and it was done. It also refers to the Spirit of God, the Holy Spirit hovering over the face of the waters, and then as soon as God said it, the Holy Spirit made it so. And it’s true even today. If we believe what God says, we receive the Word of Christ, then the Holy Spirit makes it so. And the centurion understood it. And that’s why Jesus said he has great faith.

Allen Davis: Amen.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Does that help?

Emmanuel: Yes, sir. Thank you, guys.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Thanks for your call. Who do we have next?

Allen Davis: Okay. Looks like next we have, I believe that’s Ben, and from Vacaville, California, here in the local area, on KASK.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Hi, Ben.

Ben: Hey, good evening.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Evening. Welcome to the program.

Ben: I would like to know what the Bible says about having homosexuals in the church, in the fellowship of God, and leading members of a church.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Okay. Well, first of all, we need to recognize that we’re all sinners, we’re all in need of grace, we’re all in need of God’s help, and that without Him we can do nothing. Homosexuality in the Bible, along with many other things, are referred to as sin. What are we to do when we find ourselves in that type of a situation, or in the church, where we find people in the church? First of all, we need to recognize that God loves everyone, no matter who we are, what our background is, what our temptations might be, Jesus died to forgive us, cleanse us to empower us. And if we’d come to Him with a humble heart, He will forgive us, He will help us.

Having said all of that, however, in the church community we don’t want to have in the church individuals who are living in open rebellion or in open sin to what God says. That’s true in our own lives. But it’s also true in the life of the church or the family of the church. So if it comes to the attention of the church that there’s individuals living in open sin - it’s not necessarily homosexuality, there could be fornication in the church, there could be theft happening in the church, whatever the case might be, it needs to be dealt with. We don’t just want to close our eyes and continue as if nothing is wrong. Does that make sense?

Ben: Yes, that makes sense. How about inviting homosexuals into the membership of church, to become members of the church?

Pastor Jëan Ross: Well, first of all, I think, you know, before somebody becomes a member of a church they need to be instructed in the Word of God. They need to manifest the fruits of repentance. There needs to be genuine sorrow for sin, and turning away from sin. If a person is not wiling to leave that kind of a lifestyle, then I don’t think he’s ready or she’s ready to make that kind of commitment that’s needed to be a part of the church family.

Ben: I agree with that.

Pastor Jëan Ross: You know, we do have a book dealing with the subject of homosexuality, and if you would call our resource line, ask for the book - I think it’s called Return to Sodom, we’ll send that out to you. It’s got a lot of Scriptures on the subject. But it’s also emphasizing the importance of the love of God. God loves everyone. And He is able to save everyone, if we’re willing to turn to Him. That’s one sin. But there are many different sins. And we need to commit ourselves completely to God and allow Him to cleanse us from all sin.

Allen Davis: You know, Ben, just as a footnote here to all this, the early church, especially in the second and the third century, they were very particular about whom they allowed in their congregational setting. It wasn’t that they turned people away but rather when they found that somebody was interested in the gospel - you see, it wasn’t popular to be a Christian back then, during the times of persecution - but when people showed an interest, they had to be very guarded. They could be infiltrators.

So they were very careful. They learned who they were. They got to know them. And then when they saw a commitment, then and only then, were they allowed to come into the congregation. They wanted to make sure that they were moving forward in the gospel and in the Word that they had learned at that particular time. And the key was to make the church pure, but only after persecution went away, and Christianity became legal did you see infiltration coming in.

Pastor Jëan Ross: A compromising the truth. The doors were open wide.

Allen Davis: Absolutely.

Pastor Jëan Ross: The number to call for that resource is 800-835-6747. And, Ben, you can ask for that book, Return to Sodom. We’ll be happy to send it to you, or to anyone who calls and asks for it. Who do we have next?

Allen Davis: All right. Next we have Steve listening to us on the internet from Nashville, Tennessee. Steve, you’re on the air. Good evening.

Steve: Yes, good evening. Can you hear me?

Pastor Jëan Ross: Yes, Steve. Loud and clear.

Steve: Great. I have a question in regards to - well, it is Easter, so I have a question in regards to Christ knowing or not, or whether or not He knew that He was going to be raised again. Now it may sound like an odd question, but He knew the prophecies. But I have read that He couldn’t see beyond the grave. And I don’t understand if He knew the prophecies, why He didn’t know? He’d used parables about referring to that.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Okay. Sure. Absolutely. There’s no doubt that Jesus knew the prophecies, for He Himself spoke of His resurrection. He said, “Destroy this Temple,” speaking of Himself, His body, and He said, “I’ll raise it up in three days,” and that was one of the accusations that came against Him in His trial. But when it actually came to Christ’s experience in the Garden of Gethsemane, where the Father’s presence was withdrawn, and the guilt of the sins of the world came upon Him, Christ would have died in the Garden of Gethsemane, it was so intense, had not the angels come and given Him strength, He would have died even before He would have made it to the cross.

It was that intense. It’s one thing to know what will happen than to actually go through the experience of when it happens. Jesus had to claim the promise by faith, and believe the promise that He would rise again, even though He didn’t feel at that time as though it was going to happen. When He was overwhelmed by the weight of the world’s sins and He felt the separation of His Father, He said, “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?” It was so intense, so deep. He had to receive it by faith. And He overcame by faith. But it was very intense, very real. I like the way one writer puts it. It’s written that “Jesus couldn’t see through the portals of the tomb.” In other words, the experience was so intense, so deep that Jesus had to just claim the promise by faith and hold on to it.

Allen Davis: All right. Next we have Aaron listening to us on the internet from Silver Spring, Maryland. Aaron is on line 5. Aaron, you’re on the air.

Aaron: Hey. Question number two coming at you.

Pastor Jëan Ross: All right.

Aaron: All right. So my question is, in Isaiah 66:23-24, and I know what you’re thinking, “Oh, no, it’s a question about eternal burning hell.” I understand already that’s not my question. I understand from the Scriptures that when hell happens, it’s an annihilation of sin. It’s not conscious torment. So that’s not the question.

Allen Davis: Right.

Aaron: You might be confused by my question. Anyhow, so it is picking up in verse 23, talking about “it’ll come to pass from one new moon to another, from one Sabbath to another, all flesh will come to worship before the Lord.” Then verse 24 it says, “And they,” so these same people who come to worship from Sabbath to Sabbath, from new moon to new moon, right? Not just at one point in time, but it seems like this is a weekly thing, okay?

Allen Davis: Yes.

Aaron: These same people who go weekly to worship and “they shall go forth and look upon the corpses of the men who have transgressed against me,” and looks at all these dead people, right? So, yeah.

Pastor Jëan Ross: All right. Good question. Two things I wanted to say with reference to this verse. When it comes to Hebrew poetry - and Isaiah has lots of Hebrew poetry - you find this not only in Isaiah, you find this in Daniel, especially in Daniel chapter 9 and also in Revelation. There is the overview that’s given, the big picture’s given, and then the prophet comes back and fills in some of the details and tells you how he gets to that big picture.

For example, in Revelation chapter 21, it says, John writes, “And I saw a new heavens and a new earth descend from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for a husband,” that’s Revelation 21:1. But then you go back and you read in Revelation chapter 20, after the 1000 years is finished, it says, “The wicked surround the camp of the saints, the beloved city, the New Jerusalem, and they mount their attack upon the New Jerusalem.” Well, how can the New Jerusalem be surrounded in Revelation chapter 20 if it’s not until Revelation chapter 21 that the New Jerusalem comes down from God out of heaven?

Well, what happens is, in chapter 20, he kind of gives you the story and then in chapter 21, he comes and gives you some additional information or fills in different points, so that you can understand it. It’s not always written in chronological order. We find the same thing in this form of Hebrew poetry in Isaiah 66:20 where it’s not written in chronological order. We know that the destruction of the wicked has to happen before the earth is recreated, before He makes all things new. And you find that, of course, in verse 23, talks about the new heavens, the new earth earlier than that.

Aaron: 22.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Verse 22, the new heavens and the new earth. And how do we get to the new heavens and the new earth? Well, verse 24 fills that in, talks about the destruction of the wicked.

Aaron: Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. It just seems by straight reading, when it says “and they” in the context is the same people who go weekly, it almost seems like every week when they go to worship, they will--

Pastor Jëan Ross: Right. They’re going to pass by these people that are lying on the ground. I know exactly where you’re coming from, that in first reading it seems that way. There are several areas in Scripture in Hebrew poetry. Now I’ve got the new King James in front of me and it’s pretty clear that this is Hebrew poetry. They actually recognize that in the translation of the text, because it’s written differently than other passages. So it’s in the form of Hebrew poetry. We also find the same thing in Daniel 9 and in Revelation. All right. Good question Aaron. Thanks for calling.

Allen Davis: Okay. Our next caller is Larry listening to us from Valdese, North Carolina on WWGT. Larry, good evening, you’re on the air.

Larry: My question relates to when the true Sabbath is today. I’ve read through everything and get a hold of about the time and calendars and whatnot, and encyclopedia, and Encyclopedia Britannica, which, you know, you have to read a lot to get information. And it seems that dates are wrong about, let’s say 34 A.D. or thereabouts are kind of uncertain. And, you know, Julian, I think died in 363 and they … even his calendar made a lot later. And somewhere in this information I came across that the Romans had an eight-day week. Sometime I don’t think the information in the encyclopedia exactly said when they had this. And they even counted days backwards and months rather than forward at some point in time.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Right.

Larry: And so, I’ve read your book, the Amazing Facts book on the time. And it seems to be established on the word of the Catholic Church, and you guys noted an observatory which said that as far back as they’ve checked, they’ve not found any difference in the seven-day week.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Right.

Larry: You know, without the relation how far they checked.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Well, you know, I think that’s true. I mean, we can look at this from different angles. We can look at it from that angle. But I think, for me, the clearest evidence as to which day of the week is the Sabbath, since the time of Christ to our time there’s been an entire nation keeping the Sabbath. That would be the Jewish people. They’ve been scattered in different lands, in different cultures over the past 2000 years, and they’ve kept the seventh day Sabbath. They’ve been consistent in keeping it.

Now, one might understand how one individual might get confused on which day of the week He might be on, and some might get mixed up and think that the seventh day of the week is actually the third day of the week. But for an entire nation to get mixed up within a seven-day period and end up on the wrong day, that’s not going to happen. So you’ve got these external evidences, but then you’ve also got the testimony of the Jewish nation, the Jewish people.

Larry: But they did build a nation, and there’s no record that, you know, the script was checked, you know, and that group was checked to see if they all agreed with each other. There’s just no definitive information, you know, really established in the true Sabbath.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Well, you know, with reference to the Jewish people out of all groups, even though they were scattered in different countries there’s probably not a more committed group to be, in particular, I’m talking about the more religious amongst the Jewish people being more committed to being very particular on which day of the week is the Sabbath, because it was important to them that they follow, you know, these laws precisely. So we’ve got the testimony of that. And then there’s lots of other historical evidence.

You know, we have a website, Larry, with some additional information on this called sabbathtruth.com. And if you could go take a look at that website, I think you’d find it very helpful, just sabbathtruth.com. I believe it’s even got some examples that you mentioned with reference to the Roman calendar, where there were some changes. Those changes didn’t affect the days of the week. In other words, the first, second, third, fourth day. It rather affected the calendar where they made some changes for a certain number of days. I think they cut away a certain number of days. It was still the same day.

Allen Davis: Right, when we move from the Julian to the Gregorian calendar in 1582.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Right.

Allen Davis: Right.

Pastor Jëan Ross: But the days of the week were still consistent.

Allen Davis: They stayed the same. Now, what’s interesting, Larry, I would ask you to consider this. Pastor Ross brought up a great example about the Jewish nation for nearly 2000 years at least since the time of Christ. But look at the antithesis, look at the 2 billion Christians within the world, they honor the first day of the week, and so if we understand what the first day of the week is, we can understand what the seventh and the Sabbath is.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Absolutely. So there’s that evidence as well. Well, friends, you can hear the music playing in the background. Bible Answers Live for us is probably the fastest hour of the week. But we’re so glad that we’re able to spend some time together today studying God’s Word. If we didn’t get to your question, give us another chance next week. Until then, may God Bless.