Chief of Army addresses latest sexual scandal

Having revealed dozens of defence force personnel, including senior officers, are implicated in a series of inappropriate emails, Chief of Army David Morrison joins us to explain the extent of an issue he describes as going to the heart of problems with Army culture.

Transcript

plusminus

LEIGH SALES, PRESENTER: With me from our Canberra studio is the Chief of Army, Lieutenant General David Morrison.

Lieutenant-General, you heard the words there of Lieutenant Colonel Paul Morgan who said that what the Army's tried so far has been completely insufficient, that after an incident like this there are fine words but insufficient follow-up. What do you say to that?

DAVID MORRISON, CHIEF OF ARMY: Well I agree in part with what Paul said, Leigh. There are systemic cultural issues in Defence that have be addressed. And I agree that in his case there has been an ongoing matter that has been, unfortunately, most unfortunately, slow to be dealt with. But I don't agree with him that we, the Defence hierarchy, haven't learnt from mistakes of the past or slowness to react, and I think in the case at hand at the moment, what you're seeing is a - not just a willingness, a very keen desire to engage with the nation. We have a contract as the Army with the nation to try and explain the circumstances, not to be coy about any of these issues and to try and outline how we are gonna deal with them.

LEIGH SALES: Let me just ask for a little bit more detail. I know you don't want to go into too much detail about the specifics of this material, but if you can clarify a few points. Were female soldiers or personnel filmed without their knowledge?

DAVID MORRISON: There is evidence that shows that there may have been a non-consensual distribution of imagery, but as far as that goes, I am really limited, with the ongoing investigations, to say much more.

LEIGH SALES: And were all of the female recipients of the material featured in it?

DAVID MORRISON: No. There are victims of this group's alleged behaviour who have been denigrated in different ways. Some through texts, some through distortion of imagery, some through the distribution of material without consent.

LEIGH SALES: Were any of these images doctored?

DAVID MORRISON: I've only seen a very small amount of the imagery. I'm reliant of course on what the investigative service are now trying to establish. I think that I would be on solid ground saying that in some cases though this has been doctored, yes.

LEIGH SALES: And do these images include the violent degradation of women?

DAVID MORRISON: Not that I've seen and not that I'm aware of.

LEIGH SALES: What was your reaction when you saw these images?

DAVID MORRISON: I was sickened by it.

LEIGH SALES: And then what did you do?

DAVID MORRISON: Well it confirmed the evidence that had been provided to us by the investigative service from when the chief of the Defence Force and I became aware of this on 10th and 12th April respectively, and it absolutely focused us on giving direction to the investigative service to concentrate on the 17 that I've spoken about today. I must make the point that this is a very complex matter for ADFAS to look at. It involves hundreds of emails, and as a result, hundreds of email chains. And we won't know the full extent of this and the complicity of that 90 that I have spoken about earlier today for some time yet.

LEIGH SALES: How is it possible that when this sort of behaviour has had the attention that it's had, particularly in light of the Skype matter, that you have a situation where 90 people are implicated in this sort of thing?

DAVID MORRISON: Ah, I don't know, Leigh. I mean, since Skype and indeed since the case that has confront Lieutenant Colonel Paul Morgan, there has been a renewed effort to talk to our workforce, talk to our men and women about respect and how we should treat each other. And I've gotta say, Leigh, that the overwhelming majority of the Army, the 50,000 men and women who make up the service, perform in exemplary fashion here and overseas, a great credit to the country. And I've had a lot of response from the press conference I had today, unsolicited, from men and women of all rank levels saying, "Well, thank you for dealing with this in the way that it's being dealt with," and I take heart about that. But I don't have the answer. I don't have anything that I can do that will simply create a better way that human beings deal with each other, either in uniform or without.

LEIGH SALES: But can you understand how the public ...

DAVID MORRISON: Yes.

LEIGH SALES: ... - these incidents happen ...

DAVID MORRISON: Yes.

LEIGH SALES: ... and then people in positions like yours come on and they say, "We've got zero tolerance and we're doing what we can," and then they just keep happening?

DAVID MORRISON: Yes, I can understand how people could be concerned. And as I said today, I can understand how the parents of Australia would wonder about entrusting the welfare of their daughters to the Army. I can do my best on this program and elsewhere to assure you that we are addressing the matters, but we are addressing them imperfectly because whether I'm a Lieutenant-General or not, I'm still a human being and I'm dealing with other human beings.

LEIGH SALES: You say that you don't know why people are doing it, particularly given the focus that's been on it. Do you feel that you do know how to address it?

DAVID MORRISON: I think - I do think that being as open and honest with our workforce and with the nation is definitely a very important step to take and I feel uncomfortable about doing this interview, of course I do, because it's the service that I've been a part of for three and a half decades and I love deeply that is being called into question. But I know that I'm accountable here. I'm accountable for what happened to Paul Morgan. I'm accountable to what's happened to these women victims of this alleged group and I've gotta take steps to try and deal with it and I am doing the best I possibly can.

LEIGH SALES: Is it fair to say when we look at this sort of behaviour that there is a degree of collusion that indicates a pack mentality?

DAVID MORRISON: Yes, I think that that would be an accurate description.

LEIGH SALES: Is it legitimate to conclude that when you have that sort of attitude, that behaviour towards women can easily escalate into a climate of actual physical violence and bullying?

DAVID MORRISON: I think that that's a legitimate concern and I think that there have been unfortunate incidents of that that have taken place with women in the Army and in the other services as well.

LEIGH SALES: You have a goal of increasing the number of women in the Army from 3,000 to 3,600 by the middle of next year. In light of this, how difficult do you think it's going to be for you to reach that goal?

DAVID MORRISON: Well, it doesn't make it any easier. But I've gotta say, Leigh, that the women who are currently serving in the Army - and we have seen an increase in their numbers in the time that focus has been given to trying to increase the number of women in our workforce - they are doing an absolutely sensational job and their value is inestimable in my view. They improve our culture and they improve our capability. I've gotta keep on this path and I'm going to because I believe it's so important for the Army's future.

LEIGH SALES: So what would you say to an 18-year-old girl who's watching who's been thinking about a career in the Army but things, "Wow, do I really wanna sign up to that sort of treatment?"

DAVID MORRISON: Well, I'd say it's a great career, and I'd say in all honesty that it will provide challenges in your workplace, but every other profession that you are likely to look at will also have challenges for you. I'm not saying that they'll go to the heart of what you and I are talking about; I wouldn't be as presumptuous to make that sort of judgment. But there are challenges in all of our workforces. I would say to the women of Australia that there are great careers and that your participation in them will be valued deeply by me as the Chief of Army and by all of the chain of command in the Army.

LEIGH SALES: Lieutenant-General Morrison, thank you very much for joining us.