Our scout hall burned to the ground and the only thing left was the Bible. However, I don't believe that this is something to convert the unbeliever. It is somewhere between pure coincidence and a comfort for believers that may or may not be as a result of direct intervention. I note that the Church's website simply focuses on the rebuilding by saying:

.

"We know that we serve a God who specializes in restoring brokenness and who can bring beauty even from ashes. So we move into the future with trust, hope, and gratitude."

Our scout hall burned to the ground and the only thing left was the Bible. However, I don't believe that this is something to convert the unbeliever. It is somewhere between pure coincidence and a comfort for believers that may or may not be as a result of direct intervention. I note that the Church's website simply focuses on the rebuilding by saying:

.

"We know that we serve a God who specializes in restoring brokenness and who can bring beauty even from ashes. So we move into the future with trust, hope, and gratitude."

This.

"You want to know your biggest fault? You don’t keep true accounts: you put a high value on what you’ve given, a low value on what you’ve received."

I remember in the tragic Christchurch earthquake here in New Zealand, home to the stunning old cathedral. About three buildings collapsed in the city and that was one of them! Important for you to count the misses and not just the hits, yes?

.

And selective memory is also something to be wary of. I have friends in Christchurch and it is the city in New Zealand that I have been in the most: Your memory is wrong.

.

From the city's library website:

Earthquake damage

Many stone and brick buildings in Christchurch were damaged. Up to 100,000 buildings were damaged and about 10,000 buildings needed to be demolished.

.

Many of the old University buildings (now Arts Centre), also in the centre of city, are still shut due to damage starting in 2011 - some are expected to reopen after massively expensive rebuilding next year. The Cathedral did not collapse - the spire did. There was structural damage and a wall partly collapsed due to steel bracing. In 2017 the Synod voted to reinstate the Cathedral within 10 years.

.

Also, note the Church that this thread is about was actually also destroyed, as was my Scout Hall, so no one in this thread is imagining that church buildings are never destroyed!

I remember in the tragic Christchurch earthquake here in New Zealand, home to the stunning old cathedral. About three buildings collapsed in the city and that was one of them! Important for you to count the misses and not just the hits, yes?

.

And selective memory is also something to be wary of. I have friends in Christchurch and it is the city in New Zealand that I have been in the most: Your memory is wrong.

.

From the city's library website:

Earthquake damage

Many stone and brick buildings in Christchurch were damaged. Up to 100,000 buildings were damaged and about 10,000 buildings needed to be demolished.

.

Many of the old University buildings (now Arts Centre), also in the centre of city, are still shut due to damage starting in 2011 - some are expected to reopen after massively expensive rebuilding next year. The Cathedral did not collapse - the spire did. There was structural damage and a wall partly collapsed due to steel bracing. In 2017 the Synod voted to reinstate the Cathedral within 10 years.

.

Also, note the Church that this thread is about was actually also destroyed, as was my Scout Hall, so no one in this thread is imagining that church buildings are never destroyed!

“GOD BE PRAISED, A MIRACLE”

Reminds me of the “cross” on 9/11. Because two intersecting steel beams
amongst all that rubble had to be divine.

The point is, when disasters happen, things are destroyed and some things aren’t and that means that it’s inevitble that sometimes things with alleged meaning will be unscathed. It’s nothing more than statistics and confirmation bias.[Edited 10/27/18 21:06pm]

Many of the old University buildings (now Arts Centre), also in the centre of city, are still shut due to damage starting in 2011 - some are expected to reopen after massively expensive rebuilding next year. The Cathedral did not collapse - the spire did. There was structural damage and a wall partly collapsed due to steel bracing. In 2017 the Synod voted to reinstate the Cathedral within 10 years.

.

Also, note the Church that this thread is about was actually also destroyed, as was my Scout Hall, so no one in this thread is imagining that church buildings are never destroyed!

“GOD BE PRAISED, A MIRACLE” Reminds me of the “cross” on 9/11. Because two intersecting steel beams amongst all that rubble had to be divine. The point is, when disasters happen, things are destroyed and some things aren’t and that means that it’s inevitble that sometimes things with alleged meaning will be unscathed. It’s nothing more than statistics and confirmation bias. [Edited 10/27/18 21:06pm]

.

Shhh, I don't think anyone else noticed:

.

The difference between your claim of just 3 buildings when it was 10,000 buildings, or

.

That the Cathedral did not collapse and it is intended to be reopened when you said it collapsed, or

.

That the Church in the OP article was destroyed so no one is suffering from confirmation bias imaging the building was not destroyed, or

.

Virtually everyone really did understand that the two cross beams at Ground Zero were just two cross beams that reminded people of a cross and this is why they became a focal point, not a confirmational bias were people imagined the cross was made by God.

.

The problem with statistics is they can be manipulated by people to fit their beliefs - like 10,000 becomes 3, severely damaged but mostly standing becomes collapsed. You are just finding what matches your beliefs whilst accusing others of doing the same.

Many of the old University buildings (now Arts Centre), also in the centre of city, are still shut due to damage starting in 2011 - some are expected to reopen after massively expensive rebuilding next year. The Cathedral did not collapse - the spire did. There was structural damage and a wall partly collapsed due to steel bracing. In 2017 the Synod voted to reinstate the Cathedral within 10 years.

.

Also, note the Church that this thread is about was actually also destroyed, as was my Scout Hall, so no one in this thread is imagining that church buildings are never destroyed!

“GOD BE PRAISED, A MIRACLE” Reminds me of the “cross” on 9/11. Because two intersecting steel beams amongst all that rubble had to be divine. The point is, when disasters happen, things are destroyed and some things aren’t and that means that it’s inevitble that sometimes things with alleged meaning will be unscathed. It’s nothing more than statistics and confirmation bias. [Edited 10/27/18 21:06pm]

.

Shhh, I don't think anyone else noticed:

.

The difference between your claim of just 3 buildings when it was 10,000 buildings, or

.

That the Cathedral did not collapse and it is intended to be reopened when you said it collapsed, or

.

That the Church in the OP article was destroyed so no one is suffering from confirmation bias imaging the building was not destroyed, or

.

Virtually everyone really did understand that the two cross beams at Ground Zero were just two cross beams that reminded people of a cross and this is why they became a focal point, not a confirmational bias were people imagined the cross was made by God.

.

The problem with statistics is they can be manipulated by people to fit their beliefs - like 10,000 becomes 3, severely damaged but mostly standing becomes collapsed. You are just finding what matches your beliefs whilst accusing others of doing the same.

Ok, let’s start again. Do you believe that unscathed religious paintings and biblesor still standing churches after hurricanes, fires and earthquakes are evidence of divine intervention?

The difference between your claim of just 3 buildings when it was 10,000 buildings, or

.

That the Cathedral did not collapse and it is intended to be reopened when you said it collapsed, or

.

That the Church in the OP article was destroyed so no one is suffering from confirmation bias imaging the building was not destroyed, or

.

Virtually everyone really did understand that the two cross beams at Ground Zero were just two cross beams that reminded people of a cross and this is why they became a focal point, not a confirmational bias were people imagined the cross was made by God.

.

The problem with statistics is they can be manipulated by people to fit their beliefs - like 10,000 becomes 3, severely damaged but mostly standing becomes collapsed. You are just finding what matches your beliefs whilst accusing others of doing the same.

Ok, let’s start again. Do you believe that unscathed religious paintings and bibles or still standing churches after hurricanes, fires and earthquakes are evidence of divine intervention?

.

I already answered this in my first post. I said "Our scout hall burned to the ground and the only thing left was the Bible. However, I don't believe that this is something to convert the unbeliever. It is somewhere between pure coincidence and a comfort for believers that may or may not be as a result of direct intervention."

.

As no one can say whether or not it is as a result of divine intervention, it cannot be proof.

.

Your assumption, arguably directed by the thread title, is that the painting of a person who inaccurately represents how Jesus would have looked being mirculously saved from the destroyed church is seen as evidence to prove God. Beliefs, including your's, are not solely the product of indisputable "proofs". God's answer to prayers is to help us to bear our crosses including the ravages of hurricanes, fires and earthquakes and other natural events and the consequences of life and how we live it. It is as the website of the the Church that lost its church building says: "We know that we serve a God who specializes in restoring brokenness and who can bring beauty even from ashes. So we move into the future with trust, hope, and gratitude."

If He does indeed exist, and possesses these miraculous interventionist powers, I can think of better uses for them.

[Edited 10/28/18 4:16am]

Yup. Not to mention the recent tsunami in Indonesia, or stopping a hate filled gun fanatic shooting up a baby naming ceremony, or stopping a helicopter crashing over a football club. So many things yet he allegedly saves a painting and we have proof he exists! Hallefuckinglujah.

It never ceases to amaze me how cruel humans can be against fellow humans and animals, especially when in the pursuit of money and power.

If He does indeed exist, and possesses these miraculous interventionist powers, I can think of better uses for them.

[Edited 10/28/18 4:16am]

Yup. Not to mention the recent tsunami in Indonesia, or stopping a hate filled gun fanatic shooting up a baby naming ceremony, or stopping a helicopter crashing over a football club. So many things yet he allegedly saves a painting and we have proof he exists! Hallefuckinglujah.

Bingo. Either he doesn’t exist OR he does but doesn’t intervene because he can’t or doesn’t care OR can but he saves books about himself and paintings of his son but let’s this shit happen in which case he’s a massive cunt! In his defence,I think it’s the former.

Yup. Not to mention the recent tsunami in Indonesia, or stopping a hate filled gun fanatic shooting up a baby naming ceremony, or stopping a helicopter crashing over a football club. So many things yet he allegedly saves a painting and we have proof he exists! Hallefuckinglujah.

Bingo. Either he doesn’t exist OR he does but doesn’t intervene because he can’t or doesn’t care OR can but he saves books about himself and paintings of his son but let’s this shit happen in which case he’s a massive cunt! In his defence,I think it’s the former.

I'm going with the former too. He needs to do better than a ray of sunshine to convince me.

It never ceases to amaze me how cruel humans can be against fellow humans and animals, especially when in the pursuit of money and power.

Exactly. If their argument is based on a picture of Jesus NOT burning in a fire, then my argument can be based on a picture of Jesus burning in a fire.

“What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence” Christopher Hitchens.

.

As one of the most assertive people in recent media history, he certainly had no evidence and was often so easily dismissed by looking at the evidence.

.

My favourite was his assertion that Mother Teresa had nothing really to do because he looked out over Calcutta from his luxury hotel room long after the famines and wars and proclaimed that it was not so bad there.

Exactly. If their argument is based on a picture of Jesus NOT burning in a fire, then my argument can be based on a picture of Jesus burning in a fire.

“What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence” Christopher Hitchens.

.

As one of the most assertive people in recent media history, he certainly had no evidence and was often so easily dismissed by looking at the evidence.

.

My favourite was his assertion that Mother Teresa had nothing really to do because he looked out over Calcutta from his luxury hotel room long after the famines and wars and proclaimed that it was not so bad there.

Sounds like you’re trying to dismiss a valid quote about burden of proof with an ad hominem statement about it’s author. And let’s not go down the Teresa rabbit hole.

Yup. Not to mention the recent tsunami in Indonesia, or stopping a hate filled gun fanatic shooting up a baby naming ceremony, or stopping a helicopter crashing over a football club. So many things yet he allegedly saves a painting and we have proof he exists! Hallefuckinglujah.

Bingo. Either he doesn’t exist OR he does but doesn’t intervene because he can’t or doesn’t care OR can but he saves books about himself and paintings of his son but let’s this shit happen in which case he’s a massive cunt! In his defence,I think it’s the former.