As far as a semi-auto AoW: they don't exist, IIRC, because they are considered a destructive device. a Shortbarrel shotgun makes more sense anyway, since you can get a folding stock.

I hate to say it but that's not the case, a DD is LEGAL to own in many AOs. The predominant reason there is no semi auto serbu type guns is that the semi auto actions on most shotguns would not work well in a serbu sized package. There are a few shotguns that *might* work ( Saiga, *maybe* a browning auto 5) but the majority of them have serious timing and ejection issues when cut that far down, not to mention that any semi auto shotgun that works on a 'long recoil' type action can not use a pistol grip only. For these shotguns there MUST be some type of stock for the recoil spring assembly.

J.
Gunsmith

Phone 480-217-4742 ( Let me know you are from ZS, I get a LOT of telemarketing calls and might be a bit gruff when I answer.)
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Sic Vis Pacem, Parabellum
Deus Vult
Rule#2 Dont be stingy with ammo, double tap!

Bunni wrote:A holster with a Keylock to make it considered a legal gun case in IL.

A lock is not required to legally be considered a case. Anything that fully encloses the firearm and fastens via snap, buckle, button, zipper, velcro etc. is legally a case in IL. Plus you guys will finally be getting real CCW soon anyways.

As far as a semi-auto AoW: they don't exist, IIRC, because they are considered a destructive device. a Shortbarrel shotgun makes more sense anyway, since you can get a folding stock.

I hate to say it but that's not the case, a DD is LEGAL to own in many AOs. The predominant reason there is no semi auto serbu type guns is that the semi auto actions on most shotguns would not work well in a serbu sized package. There are a few shotguns that *might* work ( Saiga, *maybe* a browning auto 5) but the majority of them have serious timing and ejection issues when cut that far down, not to mention that any semi auto shotgun that works on a 'long recoil' type action can not use a pistol grip only. For these shotguns there MUST be some type of stock for the recoil spring assembly.

Oh no, I just meant they don't make then because they are DDs. I'm sure you could tune the gas system for them if you wanted too, but nobody wants to fool with the $3000 tax to become a manufacturer of destructive devices (which is separate from the $150 to become a manufacturer of firearms other than destructive devices) or the $3000 to become a dealer of destructive devices (which is separate from the $200 to become a dealer firearms, including NFA items but excluding DDs) just to sell an expensive semi-auto pistol that fires a 12ga round.

As far as a semi-auto AoW: they don't exist, IIRC, because they are considered a destructive device. a Shortbarrel shotgun makes more sense anyway, since you can get a folding stock.

I hate to say it but that's not the case, a DD is LEGAL to own in many AOs. The predominant reason there is no semi auto serbu type guns is that the semi auto actions on most shotguns would not work well in a serbu sized package. There are a few shotguns that *might* work ( Saiga, *maybe* a browning auto 5) but the majority of them have serious timing and ejection issues when cut that far down, not to mention that any semi auto shotgun that works on a 'long recoil' type action can not use a pistol grip only. For these shotguns there MUST be some type of stock for the recoil spring assembly.

Oh no, I just meant they don't make then because they are DDs. I'm sure you could tune the gas system for them if you wanted too, but nobody wants to fool with the $3000 tax to become a manufacturer of destructive devices (which is separate from the $150 to become a manufacturer of firearms other than destructive devices) or the $3000 to become a dealer of destructive devices (which is separate from the $200 to become a dealer firearms, including NFA items but excluding DDs) just to sell an expensive semi-auto pistol that fires a 12ga round.

A pistol grip semi auto would only be a DD if it was originaly manufactured as a pistol(Smooth bore semi auto pistol). If it was manufactured with a stock and was taken to a class III gunsmith to have it converted to a short barreled shotgun with a pistol grip it would not fall under the DD heading, it would still be a SBS. That key differance is why a FFL cannot sell a factory pistol grip shotgun to anyone under 21, the ATF considers it a pistol AND a shotgun, but not a smooth bore pistol. The catch is that most shotguns ( aside from the previously mentioned ones) have action types that preclude a 'serbu' type build.

J.
Gunsmith

Phone 480-217-4742 ( Let me know you are from ZS, I get a LOT of telemarketing calls and might be a bit gruff when I answer.)
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Sic Vis Pacem, Parabellum
Deus Vult
Rule#2 Dont be stingy with ammo, double tap!

a rugged M41a1 pulse rifle kit that can be mounted on a functioning m1927a1 thompson pistol, and hold up to actual use......just for range amusement.

high quality 75 round ak style drum for the AR15 platform in multiple calibers....not made by beta c or of plastic crap. steel, opening back cover for loading, $125 price point.

a pistol grip/ AR styled stock for the m14 that doesn't look like a leftover erector-set abortion, or is made of zytel with reinforcing bolts all over it, or a ullpup that looks like it was slapped together out of frame braces at home depot.......just someone please do it right...!!!!!!

1. A 380ACP designed to be safely/discretely carried in a sweatband style holster on your wrist/forearm.

2. A relatively affordable bullpup PCC that is both lightweight and reliable.

3. A polymer COP pistol with a fantastic trigger.

4. A 1-2 rifle safe that fits between standard studs, has a good electronic/biometric lock, and a decent amount of steel. Ideally it could be ordered with a variety of hinged mirrors, book shelves, and pictures.

I hunt with pistols, and enjoy the scout rifle occasionaly. Most of your better ler scopes do not perform well in low light as compared to similar magnification rifle scopes. A larger objective lens and largertube would help. I also prefer fixed power scopes - one less thing to go wrong. A 6 to 10 power fixed glass with a nice fat tube and a decent objective would be fantastic for both long range pistol work and on a scout rifle. As far as the fine reticle is concerned - I have issue with some of these newer styles that seem to have more mildots and hashes than actual viewing area. It's why I refuse to run a red dot - a 4moa dot doesn't sound like much but 8 inches at 200 yards is unacceptable for me. All about personal preferences - I know not a lot of folks run 308s that fit in shoulder holsters or bolt guns under 15 inches OAL