Arin wrote: "I am not saying it is acceptable to have relations with many of your students. But that sometimes, if it's a sincere feeling two people share, then they can both be mature about it and keep it outside of the classroom and school and see how things could develop. "

If he/she is your student, then it is NOT outside the classroom.

Arin also wrote: "My point is that there are situations such as mine where no professionalism is being compromised by having a relationship outside the class."

Would you please explain how being unable to control your carnal feelings over that "fine piece of a*** from Poland" doesn't compromise professionalism? Lusting is one thing. Acting on it is another, especially when you've just become a hypocrite with your co-worker over the issue. Please, how is this NOT unprofessional?

Arin also wrote: "I suspect though that most of the other contributors here are more experienced and qualified than I. Perhaps if I had a DELTA, MA and 10 years experience (and a job & salary appropiate to this) then I would feel the need to start behaving a little more "professionally"."

It doesn't take a master's degree, years of experience, or a large salary to behave professionally. Grow up.

Glenski,

I would appreciate it very much if you did not attribute statements to me which I had not made. I only wrote what you quoted in your first paragraph, and what I was trying to say is that a teacher should make every attempt to NOT have a relationship with a student until the student is no longer in his/her class.

However, this is not a perfect world, and humans as such, are not perfect. We try our best to behave morally, ethically, and in such a way that benefits everyone and harms no one. But there are times when no matter what we do, we will end up offending someone.

At the end of the day, Leeroy is a teacher who posted his comments on the message board and even if you are outraged at his comments, I don't think it's any reason to villify him.

I (and others) are getting tired of seeing the same weak justification for dating students from those that can't control themselves.

1. Oh, she is a fine piece of as* !
2. Hey, if we don't tell anyone, it's ok.
3. What I do in my private time is nobody's business.
4. You can't stop chemistry/love.
5. I never claimed to be a professional, so don't bother me.

These sorts of comments just show how little respect people have for the opposite sex whether they live overseas or not, and how little respect they have for themselves when in a position of authority.

From Arin:

Quote:

I only wrote what you quoted in your first paragraph, and what I was trying to say is that a teacher should make every attempt to NOT have a relationship with a student until the student is no longer in his/her class.

Excellent thought! But, the point in this thread (and the related one) is that so many people come here with nothing but thoughts of scoring or partying. it cheapens what the serious teachers' image, and it lowers the image of foreigners in general. For the people who zip in and out of a foreign land in only a year, that may not seem like much, or it may even seem laughable, but that's their perspective, and they just refuse to see it from the other side. Is it any wonder that such people are at odds with each other?

As for vilifying Leeroy, there was no slander intended, but his initial posts were so blatantly absurd. Calling a student a "piece of as*", for example. Say that at work, and you run the risk of charges of sexual harassment! (Yes, I know this forum is not work, but my point is still the same. Exposing your thoughts in such a way shows how little you really consider yourself to be an authority figure who can keep his zipper zipped.) Only in later posts did Leeroy choose to explain how his conversations with a co-worker weren't long and calculated discussions on how to ensnare women, but the damage had already been done. I feel my earlier comments in response to some of his remarks stand on their own. My outrage is justified, and I think I did my best to respond professionally.

Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2003 9:44 am Post subject: if you never had a college prof who dated a student...

...You must have gone to Univ. on another planet!

It's in the movies. It's in the novels. Why? Because it happens all over the world, always has, always will. What am I talking about? The subject of this thread of course.

When I went to Univ. and then later, a technical college, I knew two prof. and one teacher who were dating students. Nobody looked at it oddly, because everyone knew...that's life.

My first year in University, I was invited to my French teachers' apartment for wine and cheese. She was older than me by at least 10 years, and she made no bones about why I was being invited; she liked me! What followed isn't important to add here, the point has been made.

Is it right? Is it wrong? Is it accepted? I can only answer the last question. If you are going to, or teaching in a University, or school of some type where the students are considered "legal age" [20-up] then yes, it is accepted. And not just in the West. It's everywhere, kind of like mold. Some mold makes great cheese!

I think it is important to distinguish between "teacher," in the high school sense, and "teacher" in the adult language center-- or private tutor-- sense. One uniform definition for teacher, I believe, does not exist in the tefl field. When we approach the contentious issue of teachers' personal relationships with students, we need to be clear about what we mean by "teacher" in our discussion. I think one of the problems with this discussion is that all teachers and teaching scenarios are assumed to be the same, and therefore universal rules are forwarded concerning conduct.

Obviously, someone who works with minors has absolutely no right to be dating their students. It's more than unethical; it's illegal. On the other hand someone who works with adults in a non-competitive (ie. no grades) language center is a different kind of teacher. Someone who offers private lessons from individuals' homes is still another kind of teacher. Some teachers are in positions of trust and authority, and others-- as someone else once put it-- are more like guitar tutors who are not in such a vaulted position.

In summary, I think when discussing the ethics of dating students, we need to be more specific about what kind of teacher we are referring to. In some situations dating a student would be totally unacceptable; in others, it wouldn't be a big deal.

It's in the movies. It's in the novels. Why? Because it happens all over the world, always has, always will.

First, where does this logic "it happens everywhere, so no problem" come from. What rational adult says gheating happens at every college, so it is okay?
And just because it happened to you at a university...every country I have ever been to, most schools had rules against it. Some countries have laws now against it.

It is said that there have to be laws for what is wrong by common sense...I know it must be common sense otherwise "teachers: wouldn't try to justify it by saying it happens everywhere.

Oh, I guess it's okay to steal your money, but theft happens in every university???