Actually Heath,
Lucas and Cammo are presenting an lucid, intelligent, methodical, point by point argument on how they think Disneyland can be improved. They love Disney. Whining is what you (and people like you) do when they offer useless advice, like, stop going to Disneyland. I have three questions for you buddy.

1. Do you object to Lucas and Cammo having an opinion, or posting it?

2. How is their criticizing Disney different from you criticizing them?

If you guys think this is harsh criticism, you have no idea what I'm capable of. I consider this a watered down, lite and fun critique.

My last post was intended to direct you over to Mouse Planet, where there's a year-by-year list of the ride closings Pressler presided over. It's simple; I didn't want to repeat the info without permission.

I have to admit, I wasn't going to join in this post due to the harshness of the title, but after reading through it, I see people feel the same way I do in alot of different ways.
My major complaint(s) with the way the park is being ran and operated are:

1. ALL restaurants should be first come, first served, period! Why make it more difficult with months in advance booking? When you pay your admission, go make your reservations at that time! F@CK a 1-877-dine number to call months prior to your visit to the park. If Im there today, I expect to eat today(at a good restaurant)! I found that out the hard way after arriving at the park this past summer, and I was livid!

2. Tomorrowland Used to be cool, but for the last 12 years or so, its been the ghetto of Disneyland.No kiddie boats, no Subs,no rockets, no peoplemover,no circlevision, and finally the Space Mountain Remodel that had it shut down for a while...Well, Thank God for Space Mountain reopening. But what happened to the real feel of "The Future"??? Monsanto, McDonald Douglas, and all the other independent sponsors really made this area successful back in the days! It wasn't just fun, but you actually LEARNED things. Hall Of Chemistry, ATIS, Rocket to the Moon, House of the Future and the uses for plastic... need I say more?

3. What happened to "Theme" merchandising in the park? Its all the same shit at every stand you go to! The same hats, shirt prints and LED night toys at every cart across the park no matter what land you are in!

4. Great moments with President Lincoln....Its now indefinately shut down, currently home to some of the Disney Gallery models(since the closing of the Disney Gallery atop the Pirates of the Caribbean loading area). Future is uncertain with the area that used to Hold Great moments with Mr. Lincoln, but rumors are a possible current Disney movie interactive animatronic show. There is no more respect for this Country's founding fathers as it seems the only reason people(especially tourists) seem to remember "Some" of the dead presidents, its because they are on our printed currency. Disney execs are losing the "lets learn about this, and still have fun" type attitude, to make room for the merchandise machine. Learning doesn't sell very well, but apparently Nemo does!

5. Political Correctness is bullshit and it has become a disease in American Society. There were people like the character "Uncle Remus" who existed. Instead of hiding the truth, how about keeping it semi-real and not burying it all? Pirates pillaged, plundered, raped, and killed for profit. Now everyone is being brain washed into thinking Pirates were all like the non blood spilling Johnny Depp character. I know Pirates of the Caribbean ride never showed blood or direct rape, but also,as a kid, you never saw the darker more cynical side of the ride, not until you were older and realized there wasn't a tooth fairy and easter bunny afterall... History it seems, is being rewritten in all aspects of life and Disneyland should give you the first clues to a reality check. Bring back the woman in the barrel, the men chasing the women WITHOUT plates of food in there hands, and bring back the original Captain "BlackBeard" of the Wicked Wench! Bring Back Indian Village with real jewelry stands and dance shows. It was educational as well as entertaining. Bring back the can-can dancers at the Golden Horseshoe Revue. Bring back the burning cabin with the laid out settler that had arrows sticking out of his back. Bring Back TOM SAWYERS ISLAND with the Fort. Bring back the Founding of America, it's only a "Theme" park, so no need for PC, right? Frontierland can't be what it is(was) without a Frontier, now can it?.....

I guess the point I am trying to get across is that I think Disneyland has taken the timelessness feel and dated it all...Nemo, Updated Pirates version,Star Tours, ToonTown,Pirate Island etc..etc...Florida's Disneyworld has tossed away Toads Wild ride, and completely rewritten the Tiki Room starring Gilbert Gottfried featuring songs by the miami sound machine. Then I can only speculate to see Eddie Murphy added with his movie family to the Haunted Mansion at either(or both) of the parks in due time....

Sorry for the rant, but it disturbs me, and its not Disneyland's fault they make these changes...It is because of US, as a whole...Its our religions, it's our somewhat shameful, yet powerful historical past, it's our grudges we hold on to...It's our intolerances towards others differences that eats away at America like cancer, and is absorbed at all media levels including Disneyland.
The park still has a glimmer of magic to it, but it is just that. Almost as if Tinkerbell has all but ran out of pixie dust...

It's the little things that get me. Not enough cool themed merchandise. Too much political correctness. That's the most I can really come up with.
Oh wait, maybe you've seen them, the horrible Disney geek dancing and singing group that just hang out like some weird cult(not that I have anything against cults) doing musical numbers. There like an "up with people" high on life nightmare. Hell, my six year old asked me "Dad, when are they gonna stop singing?"....very annoying.
I guess I had something to complain about after all.

"the horrible Disney geek dancing and singing group that just hang out like some weird cult"

'Please Daddy, make them stop singing!' That's funny as hell!

Who are THOSE guys? You gotta take pictures next time, man. That's one thing I like, the live groups. The jazz group is excellent.

Theme merch is completely gone because Pressler made the whole park into one huge Disney Store. This isn't just a bad idea because it's unimaginitive - it's also bad for business. Because there already IS a Disney Store, the world's biggest, right beside the entrance!

And people are starting to forget that EVERYTHING at Disneyland used to be 'theme'. Rides, food, characters, toys, the whole experience was always total immersion.

That's my point, things have been done that defy rational explanation. What are they doing, rolling dice for ideas?

Why wouldn't you have a theme store at every exit, like Star Tours and Pirates? (they both basically exit into a small shop with theme toys; Lucas seems to have demanded it) The Haunted Mansion is begging for that set-up - a spooky store would be great.

And remaking rides into versions of recent films is bad on three counts;

1. The film will be forgotten in a few years. They redid the Treehouse into Tarzan's home, but nobody has even seen or remembers that movie.

2. Nemo, like Buzz Lightyear and the rest of the gang, are from Pixar films. Disney just distributes Pixar, they don't own them in any way (yet). That means they have to pay for licenses for those characters, which is mucho $$$ and pulls money that could have been dropped into ride production. Again, bad business.

3. Ususally, they do a lousy job on it anyway, basically putting up posters of the film on the ride's walls!

You're right, Thomas, though, a lot of this is due to the audience sucking it up no matter what happens.

I used to like that creepy shop in Fantasyland with the scary monster masks and the glow-in-the-dark plaster skulls! It was next to Peter Pan, if I remember correctly. I used to have one of those little glow skulls and it was really cool!

On 2007-12-04 08:17, procinema29 wrote:I used to like that creepy shop in Fantasyland with the scary monster masks and the glow-in-the-dark plaster skulls! It was next to Peter Pan, if I remember correctly. I used to have one of those little glow skulls and it was really cool!

If I'm not mistaken, and on a collector's note the company that made alot of the plaster type collectibles was called Randotti(?). they made skulls, plaster tombstones for the haunted mansion merch, a pirates of the caribbean wall plaque, and a HM wall plaque that I can recall. I'm not sure if they made the plaster type tiki necklaces with colored gemstone eyes that used to sell in the adventureland bazaar, although they seem to be made of identical materials?

Also, My understanding for the Snow Whites Castle and the closed down Diorama is for a possible interior remodel to include 1 hotel room suite like Florida has...The Dioramas were cool to read the stories, and watch the little mechanical movements.

Anyone remember the mechanical "fish" that used to jump out of the water across from the thunder mountain ride exit? The "feeding fish" were located in the Rivers of America, and were not functioning the last 2 times I was at the park. It was the little things that always caught my eye, and what made me a Disneyland Fan...Most "little things" have been removed, some due to PC, some due to High Maintenance, and some for both reasons like the burning settler's cabin.

Next to the fort, on the old Tom Sawyers Island the used to have wild blackberries growing through the fenced off area that barricaded walking into the Indian Village. I was told Walt wanted hidden exploration type findings that could reward passerbys through discovery, and fruit plants/trees were a part of that as well. No trees or plants ended up in Disneyland by accident when Walt was around. I thought, How cool is that!? I used to pick a few/eat a few berries and they were good too!

The last time Libby and I were there the day ended as a nightmare. The park was WAY oversold, and it was a human logjam everywhere (except for the far reaches of "ghettoized" Tomorrowland -- nice observation, that).

My favorite area in Disneyland has always been New Orleans Square. Expecially around sunset and through twilight, when the Mark Twain would cruise the Rivers with her winsome lights glittering on the water, a sprinkling of lights in the trees, the Haunted Mansion quietly looming in the soft glow beyond Tom Sawyer Island, a little Dixieland drifting in the breeze..., all of it. One of the most charming spots on the planet, ever.

Then they put in "Fantasmic" -- and New Orleans Square became akin to a common street parade, with people putting blankets on the ground in the late afternoon to start "dibbing" spots along the promenade, and by evening the mass of people jamming that once-charming area swelled to a claustrophobic mass of restless bodies. Nobody could move freely. Some folks could barely breath. If you didn't hog a table at one of the restaurants six hours in advance, you couldn't sit down anywhere.

It was awful, awful. We just wanted to get out, but we were herded -- like cattle -- by brusque Cast Members (not their fault; the sheer numbers of streaming bodies must've been ennervating to them), faceless in the dark, except for their swinging flashlights, ordering us to "Keep moving! Keep moving!" Nowhere to stop, roped-off areas themselves clogged with sardined-in Guests... "Keep moving!" -- all the way out of NOS, through Frontierland, through Main Street. Was this Disneyland!? Or "Soylent Green"?

I've been visiting Disneyland all my life, and I've never had so traumatic an experience as that. I'm not sure I'll ever go back, when I also acknowledge the other right-on beefs in this thread, particularly the parkwide "Disney Stor-ification" (I used to LIKE buying things themed to thier various lands) that the Management has horrifically homogenized throughout the park. (also a bullseye comment) I want to go back, can't really bear to think I never will again -- but not to repeat that experience again, ever.

I DON'T WANT TO COMPLAIN ABOUT DISNEYLAND. I never thought the day would come when I would regard this magnificent, special place with such heartbroken grief. I always thought, no matter how despoiled life in Southern California has become, and is becoming, that Disneyland would somehow always be alright. Well, it's not alright anymore. Its care and management has fallen into the hands of the Phillistines, and my great and only hope is that they'll eventually be ousted (to go apply their callous, dim-souled, imagination-deficit management style elsewhere). Until then the only thing that could help rescue Disneyland at the moment would be a Time Machine.

I'm not whining about Disneyland, I'm crying. I'm really crying, like I lost a dear friend, whom I once knew so well, and whose special warmth and magic I shared with other close friends. I pity those who never saw the place they way it was, and hope for them that some semblance of the wise love and artful stewardship that once protected the park's unique ambience will break free of the shackles of stifling corporatism, and real, courageous, creative leadership will once again make Disneyland the happiest place on Earth.

Damn avarice.

_________________"Don't let it be forgot,
That once there was a Spot,
Where Blowfish all wore sunglasses,
and Tiki-times were hot..."
SOK

On 2007-12-04 06:13, Cammo wrote:Why wouldn't you have a theme store at every exit, like Star Tours and Pirates? (they both basically exit into a small shop with theme toys; Lucas seems to have demanded it) The Haunted Mansion is begging for that set-up - a spooky store would be great.

I was told by an employee that this is already in the works. A year round Haunted Mansion storefront, no doubt to sell HM original and Haunted Holiday/Nightmare before Xmas Merchandise.

Here's a link to a real insider blog site that Pixar and ex-Disney execs developed to critique, discuss and suggest fixes for all the things we've been talking about! It's kind of a Disneyland Tiki Central!

Here's a link to a real insider blog site that Pixar and ex-Disney execs developed to critique, discuss and suggest fixes for all the things we've been talking about! It's kind of a Disneyland Tiki Central!

Is this for real? And I like the friendly tone to the opening, mostly due to news that California Adventure is slated for a major billion dollar fixup!

What do you mean "Wow"? Dood pointed out that same blog on page two of this very thread (which you started). And I've been enjoying it ever since. Thanks Dood. For those of you that bother to actually read it, you'll even find an "article" there from Tangaroa.