See Robert. I read your post and feel better about it and then I read the post from Nichole123 and UGH!!!! Of course it does not help that I have been on anti depresseents for many years, now wellbutrin and Cymblata 60mg. And of course you know that I stepped down on the Oxy from 60/60 to 30/30 and hit a brick wall. Just hearing her say that i am in for another nightmare, well it does give that UNEASY feeling. I can DO weeks, but months, don't thik I have the strength. I will keep reading the posts though and learn through others.

blow her off for she does not know what she is talking about......... dont abuse the drug, do what is suggested and it will work for you.. its not a magic pill that will take away your abuse problems, but will give you time to get you head together so that you have the chance to change your life.

Getting Off Suboxone

How will my body know it is time to step down. My pill cutter can barely cut it in half and I get splintered pieces everywhere. how in the world do you cut smaller. they don't make smaller doese pills. i am taking 4 mg 2x a day and they are hard tosplit. I AM tired a lot. I have been taking naps every day and really sleeping better than when I was taking the oxy contin. what happens if i miss a dose. what kind of reaction would i have. I am only afraid that doctors keep you on longer than needed especially for people like me who have great insurance and everything is covered 100% and i am not an abuser. Are the side effects the same as oxycontin if I did not take it? I AM taking it it but I want to know the future. See Dr. on the 4th. Thanks everyone. IS this stuff also a narcotic?

How will my body know it is time to step down. My pill cutter can barely cut it in half and I get splintered pieces everywhere. how in the world do you cut smaller. they don't make smaller doese pills. i am taking 4 mg 2x a day and they are hard tosplit. I AM tired a lot. I have been taking naps every day and really sleeping better than when I was taking the oxy contin. what happens if i miss a dose. what kind of reaction would i have. I am only afraid that doctors keep you on longer than needed especially for people like me who have great insurance and everything is covered 100% and i am not an abuser. Are the side effects the same as oxycontin if I did not take it? I AM taking it it but I want to know the future. See Dr. on the 4th. Thanks everyone. IS this stuff also a narcotic?

I will try to answer each of your questions but please relax. Nothing wrong with being apprehensive but you are freaking out about every single aspect of using this medication. Try and just trust what we have been saying.

First thing is LOSE the pill cutter. They are worthless when you get to small pieces, they just crush up the pill. Buy a single-edged razor blade. It works great and you can literally slice off a sliver with it. Works really well. By the way they do make a 2mg pill instead of the 8mg. When we get down to 1mg doses and smaller it's really easy to do with the 2mg pills. I always stuck with the 8mg pills and I had no problems cutting them as long as I used the razor and not a pill cutter. Cutters are for splitting pills in half. That is about all they are good for.

Sometimes it takes a little bit to become acclimated to the medication. It may cause us to be tired, may cause us to have a little trouble sleeping, we can all react slightly different than others do as with all meds. Give yourself a little time to get used to it. It should be easier to sleep on buprenorphine than it is on oxy. Lots of people have difficulty sleeping on oxy with scratching and our minds kind of racing. Suboxone should be much easier.

Buprenorphine has a very long half life. So if we miss a dose it normally doesn't make a lot of difference. Probably won't even notice it. Just take the next dose when you would normally take it. With oxy I always started w/d symptoms after about 4-5 hours without a dose. Suboxone doesn't act like that. As far as knowing when it's time to step down just follow the taper instructions that we provide. You can always push yourself a little extra if you want to without concern. Remember that if you ever feel badly when tapering down just take a little sliver and you will feel better almost instantly.

One of the main subjects concerning suboxone that we post about on this forum is using it for the correct amount of time. You are wise to wonder about drs keeping us on it longer than is really necessary. There are lots of really good suboxone drs who treat their patients with respect and prescribe the suboxone properly and for the right amount of time. Sadly some don't act in this manner. We can be easily taken advantage of by an opportunist dr especially if we have great insurance. If you continue to communicate regularly here that won't happen. You will receive lots of good suggestions. All you have to do is follow the suggestions you are given.

Buprenorphine is a schedule III opiate. That simply means that we are required to have a prescription but legally we can have refills just like with hydrocodone (although drs don't typically give us refills). Suboxone is a scheduled drug but doesn't get us high like other scheduled drugs. Hope this makes you feel a little better. Again just relax. Everything will be fine. Don't worry about things that haven't even happened.

My Very Last Post

I want to say thank you to everyone on here, experienced and not. I learned a lot about suboxone and the people who take it. I had 2 very bad back surgeries in a few months time and was taking oxycontin 80/80, Percocet 10/325 and Dillautid 8mg. Do not remember much for months. Anyway got off the percs, the dillautid , no problem and down to 30/20 on the oxy and my body could not get down past that without horrible withdrawl symptoms, hence the suboxone. I am not and never have been an abuser so my dr. and I agreed I would see someone who specializes. After hearing the horror stories on the blog, I was freaked out but many of you encourgaed me to go forward with it. I have been on it for 2 weeks at 4mg. 2x a day and felt fine. Yesterday I dropped down to 2mg. 2 times a day and feel fine. Saw the Dr. today and he said 1 week stay at 2 mg. 2x a day and then 1 week at 2mg 1 time a day and stop!!1 I was so surprised. He said had I been a user prior to this situation he would keep me on it another month because he said many people get off and 2 weeks later they are back and have regressed. Because my body is not used to more than that on a regular basis I should be fine and off! So the story is, the surgeries were a success but the patient turned into a drug addict. For months my doctors and sugeon told me not to worry about it, they would get me off when it was time. Well it has been 6 months and it is TIME for sure. BUT it was not a NO PROBLEM problem. It was serious to me and I know to all of you. It can be done. Now I think I will go back to smoking a joint now and again socially with friends as I have been doing for 40 years and looking back on this with tremendous sympathy and heartfelt feelings for all of you who continue to go through it on a daily basis. Keep up the postings. They Do help. Carol......

I want to say thank you to everyone on here, experienced and not. I learned a lot about suboxone and the people who take it. I had 2 very bad back surgeries in a few months time and was taking oxycontin 80/80, Percocet 10/325 and Dillautid 8mg. Do not remember much for months. Anyway got off the percs, the dillautid , no problem and down to 30/20 on the oxy and my body could not get down past that without horrible withdrawl symptoms, hence the suboxone. I am not and never have been an abuser so my dr. and I agreed I would see someone who specializes. After hearing the horror stories on the blog, I was freaked out but many of you encourgaed me to go forward with it. I have been on it for 2 weeks at 4mg. 2x a day and felt fine. Yesterday I dropped down to 2mg. 2 times a day and feel fine. Saw the Dr. today and he said 1 week stay at 2 mg. 2x a day and then 1 week at 2mg 1 time a day and stop!!1 I was so surprised. He said had I been a user prior to this situation he would keep me on it another month because he said many people get off and 2 weeks later they are back and have regressed. Because my body is not used to more than that on a regular basis I should be fine and off! So the story is, the surgeries were a success but the patient turned into a drug addict. For months my doctors and sugeon told me not to worry about it, they would get me off when it was time. Well it has been 6 months and it is TIME for sure. BUT it was not a NO PROBLEM problem. It was serious to me and I know to all of you. It can be done. Now I think I will go back to smoking a joint now and again socially with friends as I have been doing for 40 years and looking back on this with tremendous sympathy and heartfelt feelings for all of you who continue to go through it on a daily basis. Keep up the postings. They Do help. Carol......

Take this for what it is worth. If you jump off at 2mg a day you will have w/d symptoms. That is a fact. It's easy to think we have this licked because suboxone is so effective. Your dr is wrong to tell you to stop when you are still at 2mg. Don't care if he is a dr or not. Listen to what he says and you will regret it I would almost bet my house.

OK OK. I will go slower. Have tons of pills. I will just take the little slivers after dropping to 2mg a day for a week. I will go to every other day and see how it goes. Going on vacation 9/20 and want to feel like myself again.

Don't allow a calender to determine your taper plan. We abuse meds for a long time then want to be free of them in our own time frame. It just doesn't work that way. I sincerely hope you are free and done with this by then but your vacation will be a real drag if you take off and are in w/ds while on vacation when it could be avoided so easily.

The taper plan I emailed you will work. I promise I have seen it work over and again. We are here if we can help. Good luck.

i have been on 2mg once a day for about 3-4 days. Seem ok. Will the side effects be the the same as the oxy sid effects. don't know what i am looking for exactly.

If you were going to feel any side effects you would have felt them by the fourth day. And you would know what they are I promise. So this is good. You are doing this with basically no symptoms, nothing noticeable anyway.

Tomorrow take 1mg. We are going to get you off this by the time you go on vacation just as you wanted to do. I know how important that is to you after the last year you have had.

Stay at 1mg for another four days. Then lets see how you feel. PLEASE remember that if you start to feel any bad symptoms (and you will know what I mean if you feel them) then take a little sliver. But I don't expect that to happen. If all is well in four days we will have you reduce one more time for four more days. Then you will start skipping days. You will be in good shape by vacation time. You may be finishing up the day skipping process but it will be the very end of this. God bless.

suboxone detox

I have just found this thread and am very grateful for the info and that it is current. As far as I know, suboxone is a "newer" form of opiate detox and more is being learned about it.
I agree that it is a miracle as I have been able to leave my oxy addiction of 1 year with suboxone help. It has been a year and 2 months since I first took suboxone; I take about 1 to 2mg a day, and like many here, are concerned about getting free from symptoms and side-effects.
I totally agree with the helpers here like Robt325 who encourage positive outlook, with reasonable perspective. I feel totally grateful for what suboxone has done for me so far.

My doctor is a Psychiatrist/MD who only deals with pharmaceutical therapy and says that addicts have a chemical imbalance which causes us to look for relief in substances. He says that suboxone, while not perfect, is a tool to help get addicts to a more functional level and for some, it may be a life long medication.
That would be fine with me, but unfortunately, I have either side-effects or something else wrong with me.
In middle age, with lots of obligations, I find myself in a funk; physically and mentally and emotionally.
Being on oxy was terrible; the worst, but I still, after a yr on sub oxone, have very very low energy about 75% of my day. I also have some depression; like I don't look forward to anything anymore.
As I said, I only take about 1 mg per day, but yes if I go more than a day without it, I feel like I can't sit still; I'm tired, but cant rest; anxious and nervous, but tired. Seems like typical withdrawal symptoms.
I have had to reduce my output (work load) way down about 50%, and am anxious about that too.
I try to have a very healthy diet, and it is hard for me to get excited about excercise but I know it should help with energy and the depression.

Thank you for any suggestions, comments, and your help in "being there".

Hi Robert_325..I noticed you give a lot of advice so you must know about it. I've been on suboxone for 3 years. My doctor tried to lower me but it didn't work. I'm still on what he started me with..16 mg a day. He's not in it for the money at all...he's gotten to know my personality or habits. I know I'll probably be on it for the rest of my life. Ironically, I was in the hospital for some other reason about a year into taking sub. No one in the hospital knew what suboxone or buprenorphine was. So the first night started the kicking and then the next, I was told I was talking extremely fast in my sleep and my eyes were open. The stupid nurse told my mom I was dreaming. I was out the next day and when my doctor who isn't affiliated with that hospital heard, he said that was one of the withdrawal symptoms and to quickly take my dose as soon as I could. How can a hospital not know what it is and have me go through torture? Besides that, which was in 05, the past few months, when I get my pills (which maybe cause I have nails-never had a problem cutting them. I'm actually pretty good at it) Dumb thing to brag about. But I'm so used to it now, with one hand I break it in half before putting it under my tongue because someone told me it will work faster. But back to the point, when I get them, I'm supposed to take 2....I take 5 and feel so good. It's like being on percs again. But it doesn't work if I try it the next day...it's as if I took my normal dose. So every week or so, mostly if I'm depressed or in extra pain, I take more than I should in a day. Which leaves me with not enough for the rest of the month. So I take only 1 and for example, today I didn't take any. Because I won't feel the withdrawal. But after a few days of only taking 1, I feel like I'm going to jump out of my skin. I yawn constantly but other than that, I don't have any really bad withdrawals..not enough to make me stop abusing them. Well, it does help that I'm on xanax. But as to the question if suboxone is addictive, I guess not. I'm just abusing it...like everything else. But what can I take then when I'm in pain? 4 200mg motrins do absolutely nothing. Nothing at all has ever helped my migraines (except for fioricet-which I abused until I was in the hospital). A friend of mine who used to take percs also, but a lot more than I did, hasn't taken them in years.
He barely takes 8 mg of suboxone. Yet he had surgery and the morphine didn't work at all. Does that mean I'll be in pain my whole life? If something ever happened and I had to get surgery, the morphine wouldn't work? Is there anything stronger than morphine?
I don't know if I should tell my doctor I'm abusing suboxone. I've already asked him to raise me and he looked at me like I was crazy. Are there any long term side effects you know of? Besides maybe orange stained teeth. Thanks for letting me ramble.

wow;Summermaru, I am not Robert, but I would like to comment on your case. I may be wrong, but I think your Dr is prescribing sub for detox from Opiates and you are using it for pain. I did read somewhere that suboxone has been used for pain in the UK for many years, but here it is almost strictly for getting off opiates.
I am sorry you are not getting the pain relief you need, but I think that is where you should focus, and not on getting high or abusing. Get your pain dealt with the best way.
If you are having withdrawals then perhaps yes, suboxone can be considered addictive.

The reason most take suboxone is to get off the addiction which makes life more of a bummer. We are trying to get healthy again. That is why I want to get off suboxone some day if possible; I dont like having side-effects as I wrote before, and I dont like having withdrawals.

Summermaru

You are taking entirely too much suboxone. And any dr who really knows suboxone does not prescribe any benzos long term with it. That is bad news. Can cause respiratory depression. You need to titrate down from the dose you are taking. You are not using the suboxone properly at all. You even admit abusing it. I will not make suggestions on how to get pain relief while you are compromising yourself with the way you are taking this drug and others. No way I will tell you to take another drug. If you want to get off the suboxone entirely or get your dose WAY down I will make suggestions on how to correct what you are currently doing. But I refuse to participate when you are doing this the way you are doing it.

There are a lot more serious side effects to what you are doing than having orange stained teeth. Common sense tells you that. If you think that is funny then I don't know what to tell you. Good luck.

I have just found this thread and am very grateful for the info and that it is current. As far as I know, suboxone is a "newer" form of opiate detox and more is being learned about it.
I agree that it is a miracle as I have been able to leave my oxy addiction of 1 year with suboxone help. It has been a year and 2 months since I first took suboxone; I take about 1 to 2mg a day, and like many here, are concerned about getting free from symptoms and side-effects.
I totally agree with the helpers here like Robt325 who encourage positive outlook, with reasonable perspective. I feel totally grateful for what suboxone has done for me so far.

My doctor is a Psychiatrist/MD who only deals with pharmaceutical therapy and says that addicts have a chemical imbalance which causes us to look for relief in substances. He says that suboxone, while not perfect, is a tool to help get addicts to a more functional level and for some, it may be a life long medication.
That would be fine with me, but unfortunately, I have either side-effects or something else wrong with me.
In middle age, with lots of obligations, I find myself in a funk; physically and mentally and emotionally.
Being on oxy was terrible; the worst, but I still, after a yr on sub oxone, have very very low energy about 75% of my day. I also have some depression; like I don't look forward to anything anymore.
As I said, I only take about 1 mg per day, but yes if I go more than a day without it, I feel like I can't sit still; I'm tired, but cant rest; anxious and nervous, but tired. Seems like typical withdrawal symptoms.
I have had to reduce my output (work load) way down about 50%, and am anxious about that too.
I try to have a very healthy diet, and it is hard for me to get excited about excercise but I know it should help with energy and the depression.

Thank you for any suggestions, comments, and your help in "being there".

It's definitely time for you to get off the suboxone in my opinion. I suppose it's okay for some if they feel and the dr supports them that they need to take it for a lifetime as a maintenance drug. But I wouldn't do it if I was having side effects. I probably wouldn't do it this way at all but that is just me.

There are two options. I only mention doing this because you are on a really low dose and not abusing it. Some people react to the naloxone in the suboxone and do better with subutex. It is pure buprenorphine and has no naloxone as does suboxone. That is one option. The other choice is to titrate down properly and eventually get off the suboxone entirely. That would be my recommendation. I assure you that you can get off the suboxone if you do this correctly. I can help you with a taper if you really want to do it. Let me know. God bless.

yes please tell me how to titrate down from 1 to 2mg per day.
I do see a Dr for my general health and he "guesses" my symptoms of fatigue and depression are from the suboxone and he tells me to mathematically reduce. He says do 1 mg every [I]other[I] day for a while, then 1/2 mg every other day, and so on.
I just nodded ok, but I didn't really write down a procedure plan.
thank you.

Suboxone and Long term.

Summermaru: There has been no reseach on suboxone long term. It was meant to be short term. I would suggest everyone on the medication to read what the company who puts it out to the public states what research has been done...

Now ... Do not get me wrong. I used sub to get me thru detox and if it wasnt for the medication I am sure I would still be using. For me.... it was a miracle drug. It did what it suppose to do. I was on it for nearly 8 weeks.

There are many doc;s out there that know nothing about the drug or just do not care how they dispense the medication...as long as they get paid.. they are happy. I am NOT saying this is all MD's but there are many. This will change due to folks like you abuseing the medication and I hope soon.. but prob not till many die or end up with side effects that are so negative that its pulled from the market untill more research is done.

If it was my choice to be on it or off of it.??........ I dont want to depend on a medication for the rest of my life to feel normal. I take insulin or I die, I take avonex or I will end up dead or worse, alive alert and cant take care of myself. I took opiates to get high at first then to feel normal........... this was costly and I would do just about anything to keep from wd.

Yes Suboxone is addictive... its an opiate. If its your choice to stay on the drug then ok... especially if it keeps you from abusing narc's.... but to abuse the drug to keep you from abuseing opiates just does not make sense. I was burned on my hand and had to go thru a debridement without any pain meds due to the suboxone... no time to let it wear off.... glad, but after that it woke me up on not staying on it for ever. I wish you luck and hope you come clean with your md.

again to be more specific Robert, I would say it is more like 1 mg per day. simply eyeballing the chip I make from the 8 mg tabs I have.
So if we are going to measure any, it would be good to say I am at 1mg /day.

again to be more specific Robert, I would say it is more like 1 mg per day. simply eyeballing the chip I make from the 8 mg tabs I have.
So if we are going to measure any, it would be good to say I am at 1mg /day.

It's the time rather than the dose in your case that is causing you some problems. This is going to take some patience on your part. The dose you are at is so small that this is going to depend on how small of a piece you can slice off with a razor.

Usually at 1mg taken for a short time I would simply suggest to begin skipping doses and then days. But if you have maintained this small dose for some time then we need to get the dose down a little smaller before beginning to skip doses and days.

I would immediately cut the dose by the smallest amount you can keep up with. Can you reduce by .25mg? Can you cut off that amount and be pretty accurate? It would be best to use a single-edged razor rather than a pill cutter. Don't know how you have been doing it as the smallest dose pill is 2mg and you are using 8mg pills now. This is going to be LOTS easier to do with a 2mg pill rather than the 8mg. That is a big pill to cut into such small pieces. I hate telling you to get more pills if you have a full supply. Not saying you can't do it with 8mg pills. Common sense just says that such a small reduction is going to be very hard to monitor with an 8mg pill. With a 2mg pill it's 1/8 of a pill reduction. I know this is a ridiculously small change but to do this with NO symptoms that is what it is going to take. You won't need a lot of pills to do this. Believe it or not there are actually people on this forum who have been taking a total dose of .25mg in the process of totally weaning off.

Drop the dose as suggested. Realize that suboxone has an extremely long half life. This means that if you have w/d symptoms the first day then it is a mental thing. You shouldn't feel an actual w/d symptom if any for three days. So reduce to .25mg for one week. This will give the half life time to catch up with itself. At the end of one week let's see how you are doing and we can make adjustments as needed at that time.

Try and post each day how you are doing. I will stay in touch. This will be a slow process for you. It will almost seem like you are making no progress. But that is how it needs to be done to keep you out of w/d. I wish I would have been able to speak with you about six months ago. But we are where we are. You can do this. Just stay focused and don't get discouraged. You are on your way to being completely free of everything. Good luck and God bless.

ok Robert, sounds good!
I'll give it a try tuesday cutting it at .25mg. I asked the Dr for 2mg, and got the big ones; much more than I need, I dont think it was intentional, a mistake, but he sees me on it indefinitely, or at least until I discontinue on my own.
Actually he has a good program that requires attendance at meetings the first few months of treatment. Then he just prescribes as the patient feels is needed.
thanks, i feel hopeful. will keep posting as we go.

ok so now I have been on 2 mg once a day and so scared to drop to 1 mg once a day. Can I do 1 mg. 2x a day for a few days and then drop to 1 mg a day and then off?

I actually suggested a couple days ago that you go ahead and drop to 1mg. But you can surely take this the way you have suggested if you are more comfortable doing that. Take the 1mg twice daily for two days, then skip the evening dose entirely and drop to 1mg. 1mg is still a little high to stop at.

I will suggest staying at 1mg for four days. Have to give the half life time to catch up with itself. After four days you will take .5mg for four days. Then you will skip one day and then take .5mg. Then you will skip two days and then take .5mg. Then you will skip three days and then take .5mg. Now you are ready to stop. Hopefully you will feel nothing at this point. If you do you take a little sliver and begin the stopping process again. You always take a sliver if you feel badly and then stop the next day again. Usually this works the first time you stop but if you have to take an extra sliver once or even twice it's okay. Better to do that than to have w/d symptoms.

You are almost done. You will really feel great about this in a couple weeks. God bless.

It's the time rather than the dose in your case that is causing you some problems. This is going to take some patience on your part. The dose you are at is so small that this is going to depend on how small of a piece you can slice off with a razor.

Usually at 1mg taken for a short time I would simply suggest to begin skipping doses and then days. But if you have maintained this small dose for some time then we need to get the dose down a little smaller before beginning to skip doses and days.

I would immediately cut the dose by the smallest amount you can keep up with. Can you reduce by .25mg? Can you cut off that amount and be pretty accurate? It would be best to use a single-edged razor rather than a pill cutter. Don't know how you have been doing it as the smallest dose pill is 2mg and you are using 8mg pills now. This is going to be LOTS easier to do with a 2mg pill rather than the 8mg. That is a big pill to cut into such small pieces. I hate telling you to get more pills if you have a full supply. Not saying you can't do it with 8mg pills. Common sense just says that such a small reduction is going to be very hard to monitor with an 8mg pill. With a 2mg pill it's 1/8 of a pill reduction. I know this is a ridiculously small change but to do this with NO symptoms that is what it is going to take. You won't need a lot of pills to do this. Believe it or not there are actually people on this forum who have been taking a total dose of .25mg in the process of totally weaning off.

Drop the dose as suggested. Realize that suboxone has an extremely long half life. This means that if you have w/d symptoms the first day then it is a mental thing. You shouldn't feel an actual w/d symptom if any for three days. So reduce to .25mg for one week. This will give the half life time to catch up with itself. At the end of one week let's see how you are doing and we can make adjustments as needed at that time.

Try and post each day how you are doing. I will stay in touch. This will be a slow process for you. It will almost seem like you are making no progress. But that is how it needs to be done to keep you out of w/d. I wish I would have been able to speak with you about six months ago. But we are where we are. You can do this. Just stay focused and don't get discouraged. You are on your way to being completely free of everything. Good luck and God bless.

I just went at an 8mg tab with a razor, and man, it is unlikely.
Once I get it to approx. 1mg, which is the size I have been doing, but with my fingernails up til now, it looks like I will be doing some serious "eyeballing" little mounds of pill and as you all know, they can turn to powder pretty easily.
I know that is why you recomend a smaller 2 mg. pill. Perhaps even that would be hard too, considering the consistency of the sub itself.

At this point I think i will break a few tabs up with the razor and try to get estimated .25 chunks.

ukelove

I know when you get down to that small it's really hard to do on an 8mg pill. It is actually easier with a 2mg pill. The .25mg piece is still as small on that pill as the 8mg pill but the 2mg is much more intact at that size than when starting with the 8mg. You can do it the way you said and guess on it. You just won't be entirely accurate. Only reason it makes such a difference is the small dose you have been on for an extended period of time. You have to taper down further from that dose. If you can do it with the 8mg pill that is certainly okay.

Just making sure that you understood me to just reduce your dose by .25mg down to .75mg. Not take just .25mg. I am probably reading more into your post than I should. But want to make sure you got it right.

Just making sure that you understood me to just reduce your dose by .25mg down to .75mg. Not take just .25mg. I am probably reading more into your post than I should. But want to make sure you got it right.

oh wow; thanks for that, I got a bit worried as I had some little difficulty last nite... feeling squirrelly.
ok... thats a little easier to cut and to deal with physically.
-uke