[Note: the purpose of this article is not to debunk of official conspiracy theory about 2 aircraft bringing down 3 buildings and other such nonsense, or to present an alternative theory, but to evaluate how much the 9/11 Truth movement has achieved in the past 15 years.]

It has been 15 years since the terrible events of 9/11 and it is now a good time to look back at what the 9/11 movement did achieve, but also at where it failed. The biggest and most obvious failure was, of course, the failure to prevent the bloodbath the Empire calls the “GWOT” (Global War on Terror) and all the other wars which the GWOT, in turn, generated in Northern Africa, the Middle-East and elsewhere. Yes, at that we did fail, but I am not quite sure that the blame for it can be put on the 9/11 Truth movement. Let me explain.

The intelligence process is sometimes described by the “three As”: acquisition, analysis and acceptance. If we compare the 9/11 Truth movement with an intelligence agency working on behalf of the people of our planet, then I would argue that we brilliantly succeeded in the first “A”: acquisition.

Acquisition:

We now have made public many Gigabytes of video, audio, texts, radar, seismic and other materials recorded on 9/11 – more than enough to establish at the very least a “probable cause” to demand a new, independent and legally empowered investigation of the events of 9/11. From the dust of the WTC buildings in DC to the exact radar track of AA77, UA175 and AA11 – the 9/11 Truth movement has collected an enormous amount of forensic data which is now publicly available for analysis.

Analysis:

On the analysis aspect, after a rather long series of false starts, due mainly to the enthusiastic efforts of well-intentioned but technically incompetent volunteer researchers, the 9/11 Truth movement eventually began to recruit an impressive array of scientists, engineers, architects, pilots, military officials, etc. And the result of their work has been nothing short of formidable. At lot of that (peer-reviewed) analysis is now available on the website of the Journal of 9/11 Studies (http://www.journalof911studies.com/) and has even resulted in an impressive “consensus findings list” (http://www.consensus911.org/the-911-consensus-points/) which is also publicly available. A good example of this kind of rigorous scientific analysis can be found in the paper “Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe” published by the The Open Chemical Physics Journal in 2009:

If much of the acquisition was initially done by amateurs, and if some, but not all of the analysis, was also done by amateurs (including brilliant ones, like physics teacher David Chandler who single-handedly forced NIST to admit to free-fall acceleration for 2.25 seconds – see below), most of the analysis by now has been done by top level academics and scientists who have had such a devastating effect on the official conspiracy theory (that is what the official narrative about 9/11 should be called, a “conspiracy theory” since it centers on a al-Qaeda conspiracy to attack the USA) that the US government has basically had to give-up on defending it (more about that further below).

Acceptance:

Most intelligence analysts would agree that acceptance, be it by a government or by a deliberately misinformed public, is often the most difficult one of the three “As” of the intelligence process. This is, alas, were the 9/11 Truth movement has mostly failed. And yet, even the hyper-official and super-politically correct Wikipedia has to admit, most people do simply not believe that al-Qaeda did it. The problem is that this general disbelief has had no result whatsoever on the US political landscape. In a way, this makes sense: 9/11 happened in the beginning of a Republican Administration which, in turn, means that it was planned under a Democractic Administration. Not that I believe that there us much of a difference between the Demoblicans and the Republicrats (Pepsi vs Cola, really), but this simply illustrates two basic facts of the US political system:

1) The US “deep state” is not affected by changes in the White House

2) The US “deep state” is equally embedded in both factions of the “1% Party” in power

In a way, the USA is very similar to the bad old Soviet Union: it is ruled by a Nomenklatura, an “Inner Party” to use Orwell’s expression, which keeps the rest of the 99% in a condition I would describe as semi-serfdom (“semi” because the modern serf can legally leave his place of labor and move to another one). And while the real “deep state” is only a small sub-section of the US Nomenklatura, the entire Nomenklatura is bound to it by a deep sense of class solidarity. This is what primarily explains the collective blindness of quite literally all the US elites about 9/11: just like everybody now knows that Kennedy was not killed by a lone gunman, most people by now suspect that the official 9/11 conspiracy theory is a stupid load of hogwash – but they just don’t see what difference it makes for them and the world they live in. Combine a silent majority and a ruling elite acting in lockstep to deny the obvious, and you have today’s apparent defeat of the 9/11 Truth movement.

In defense of the 9/11 Truth movement, I have to admit that it took me eight years to finally realize what had happened (you can read about how I became a “truther” here). So I am hardly in a position to criticize others for having such difficulties to come to terms with the immense consequences of the “controlled demolition” theory (this is what usually scares people away, the realization that “if 9/11 was an inside job then…”). Another powerful deterrent is the social and professional stigma attached to being a “fringe lunatic” or “conspiracy theorist” (sometimes even “anti-Semite” and “Holocaust denier”) just for daring the question the official fairytale. Of course, the stakes are sky-high: if 9/11 was an inside job, then the US government is not only absolutely illegitimate, it is in fact an occupation government controlled by either foreign elements, or traitors or both. And there are those who will deliberately stick their head in the sands as deep as possible to avoid to have to contemplate the mind-blowing consequences of the undeniable fact that the so-called “land of the brave” is run by an occupation government which has reduced the so-called “brave” to a serf-like status and that several thousands of US Americans have been deliberately sacrificed to induce a mindless patriotic hysteria (with Chinese-made flags and all) to make it possible to use the poorest US Americans as canon fodder in genocidal wars all over the planet. Yes, that is, indeed, a very painful realization: the American Dream is just that – a dream.

There are also two well-known social psychological phenomena at work here: the Asch Conformity Experiment and the Milgram Obedience Experiment. The first one shows that humans tend to see what they think the majority of their fellow-humans see, while the second one shows the power of authority and its ability to make humans act against their best judgment.

Finally, there is also the well-know “where I sit is where I stand” phenomenon at work: any and all those whose livelihood, reputation or personal self-image directly depends on the “respectability” of the system we are living in, including journalists and bloggers”, have a huge interest in rejecting reality and uphold an absurd narrative simply because their own well-being is directly affected by the “system”. In that sense yes, the 9/11 Truth movement is composed of “fringe” elements, of people who have deliberately given up on official “respectability” and being seen as “serious” and who have chosen to say “the Emperor is naked” even if they get sneered at (but rarely debated!) by the million of volunteer sycophants which form the real power base of the regime in power in Washington, DC.

In spite of it all, the 9/11 Truth movement has had a huge victory: it has basically forced the US government to admit that explosives were used to bring down WTC7! Okay, not quite in these terms. But by direct implication, yes. I will not repeat the entire story here, but I will direct you to these two websites:

To make a long story short, NIST, the National Institute of Standards and Technology, has been forced to admit that for 2.25 seconds WTC7 (which, by the way, was not hit by any aircraft on that day), was collapsing a free-fall acceleration. This is only possible if 8 floors of this huge buildings were removed instantly and symmetrically. And that, my friends, is only doable by the use of carefully placed explosives. Here is the full NIST report which I encourage you to read:

The key part is in Chapter 3, pp 45-46:

This is NIST’s explanation for this graphic:

Pretty clear, no? Free fall acceleration for approximately 8 stories or 32.0m (105 ft). Free fall acceleration means that there was no resistance encountered while the top of the building when through the space where 8 floors of reinforced concrete stood just seconds before. We are talking about a building with had 58 perimeter columns and 25 core columns. And yet, 8 floors of that somehow disappeared almost instantly. If you read the full report, you will see that NIST does admit this, but never recognizes the implications of this fact. In fact, under a separate section entitled “HYPOTHETICAL BLAST SCENARIOS” NIST specifically excludes any controlled demolition based on the (completely wrong) assumptions that no blasts were heard (they were, of course). But that is just damage control. The moment NIST admitted to those 2.25 seconds of free-fall acceleration the NIST report was dead in the water. The doubleplusgoodthinking media and blogosphere chose to ignore that. Others, of course, did notice.

This is the latest brochure of Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth (AE911T) and the issue of WTC 7 is one of the major arguments it makes:

AE911T also published another full report entitled “WORLD TRADE CENTER PHYSICS : Why Constant Acceleration Disproves Progressive Collapse” which also deals with the, shall we say, “acceleration issues” of WTC1 and WTC2 which shows that all three towers fell in a way inconsistent with the official version of events:

Finally, Dr. Robert Korol, professor emeritus of civil engineering at McMaster University in Hamilton, Ontario, and a fellow of the Canadian Society for Civil Engineering, has led a team of academic researchers in preparing two peer-reviewed scientific papers on the destruction of World Trade Center Building 7. Both papers were published in the Challenge Journal of Structural Mechanics — the first one in July 2015, the second in February 2016.

At this point, it would be fair to say that the 9/11 Truth movement has proven the “controlled demolition” theory beyond a reasonable doubt. This is important because it makes it possible for the 9/11 Truth movement to now enter a completely different phase of its struggle. Let me explain by making a comparison with a hypothetical murder.

The logical investigative sequence

One of the logical fallacies used by the supporters of the official conspiracy theory against the 9/11 Truth movement is to invert the logical investigative sequence of investigation. They typically say something like this: “it would have been impossible to place a sufficient amount of explosives in the Twin Towers (supporters of the official narrative typically don’t like to mention WTC7) so your theory makes no sense”. In reality, of course, this is not how a crime is investigated.

Imagine you find a completely closed room with the body of a murdered person inside. No cop would ever say, “since nobody could enter the room no murder has happened”. That would be ridiculous. What the detective would say is that a murder has, indeed, taken place, but that at this point the investigation does not understand how it happened. Likewise, the external observations of the collapse of WTC 1, WTC2 and WTC7 clearly show that these buildings were brought down by controlled demolition, and that by itself is sufficient to demand a new investigation. The fact that the 9/11 Truth movement cannot explain every detail of what took place on that day cannot be held against it. Now that we have proven beyond a reasonable doubt that controlled demolitions did bring down these buildings, it would be the task of the new independent investigation to, well, investigate and explain how what we observed happened.

Of course, no such investigation will ever be allowed by the US “deep state”, that is pretty clear. Besides, it is the credibility of the entire US Nomenklatura which would be threatened by such an investigation, because if it became truly and officially known and understood that 9/11 was, indeed, an ‘inside job’ the consequence of that would be nothing short of “regime change” in the USA, a complete collapse of the AngloZionist Empire. So we are not exactly holding our breath.

Even better, some researchers have done a fantastic job investigating the “how” of 9/11. I highly recommend the reading of the detailed research by Kevin Ryan, the whistle-blower from Environmental Health Laboratories Inc., a subsidiary of Underwriters Laboratories Inc., (who fired him for daring to question the official version) “Demolition Access to the WTC Towers” which gives a very credible scenario of how the three buildings could have been prepped with explosives and by whom. See for yourself:

I would note that one does not have to agree with every detail of Ryan’s analysis. The importance of his work lies primarily in the fact that it is simply factually not true that the 9/11 Truth movement did not come up with any explanation of how the buildings could have been filled with explosives – it did and that is more than enough to, again, demand an open and legally empowered independent investigation into these events.

Conclusion

I think that the 9/11 Truth movement has been an absolutely fantastic success and that it has achieved every single goal which was achievable in the reality of the AngloZionist Empire. The fact that no real investigation was ever launched or that nobody was ever arrested for the crimes of 9/11 is not the fault of the 9/11 Truth movement but a direct result of the kind of ignorance, passivity and general stupidification which the Empire has successfully imposed on most of its population. Furthermore, while there have been plenty of false-flags since 9/11, none happened inside the USA, at least none involving thousands of casualties. So while “they” (the US “deep state”) did get away with it, “they” probably did not expect to be so strongly and, I might add, successfully challenged by their own population. Of course, it ain’t over until the fat lady sings, and we might still witness some major false flag inside the USA (say a “dirty bomb” as a way to preempt a election’s outcome?), but at least for the past 15 years this did not happen and if it ever happens (I think that it probably will), it will probably not be as brazen and “in your face” as 9/11 was. As for the already deeply suspicious general public, it will be far less likely to simply buy into the official version and display the same level of patriotic hysteria as the first time around.

I am personally deeply grateful to all those in the 9/11 Truth movement who opened my eyes to what took place 15 years ago: I am awed by the courage, integrity and intelligence of the thousands of people who refused to call an orange an apple:

I firmly believe that any person who does not understand what really happened 15 years ago is also by definition unable to understand everything and anything which has happened since. 9/11 was the seminal event which ushered in our current era and, just for that reason only, it is probably also the single most important event in our recent history. Christ told us that “nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known” (Luke 8:17) and that “ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free” (John 8:32). The Empire has already given up on actively defending its ridiculous conspiracy theory and it now only counts on the indifference and passivity of its serfs to keep the 9/11 Truth movement as officially ignored as can be. When challenged, the regime’s sycophants will always resort to their traditional cocktail of straw-man fallacies and ad hominems. And this is all very good because it shows a simple thing: we are winning.

The Saker

PS: and for those of you who might be truly new to this topic, here are the two movies I most recommend watching about it

911 Loose Change and American Coup:

Fabled Enemies:

The Essential Saker II: Civilizational Choices and Geopolitics / The Russian challenge to the hegemony of the AngloZionist Empire

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Good question Ann. But was it really smoke? It didn’t behave like smoke. Smoke billows out of every available opening of a structure with a fire raging inside. This black stuff only came from one face of building 7, as you say, and streamed away and upwards at a constant speed all day, so since it didn’t behave like smoke it is not appropriate (in a thorough, unbiased investigation of the matter) to describe this black stuff streaming from one face of WTC7 as smoke – the black stuff streaming away and upwards at a constant rate is a new phenomena, and calling it smoke suggests fire, which in this case would have to have been a raging infero, which we would all have seen and the WTC7 would have been blackened charred and gutted before it ‘fell’. I think the answer to the riddle is ‘dustified’ building materials. This would go some way to explaining why building 7 did not register a seismic signal … or leave a debris pile that looked anything like the remains of a 47 storey building. By the time the WTC7 ‘fell’ most of the its structural elements had already left the building so it could no longer support itself – no bombs required – just a new physical phenomena to be expalined. We are not used to the material world behaving in this way.

Every time you promote positions that cannot be supported by basic science (directed energy weapons, nukes, holograms), and choose to ignore positions that are irrefutably supported by basic science (presence of thermite, molten iron, explosions witnessed by hundreds of people, etc.), you defeat your own position by transparently identifying it as classic disinformation.

I’m truly grateful to all of you who have unwittingly exposed your deception for all with common sense to see.

For anyone questioning the presence of Thermite, ask yourself…are you going to listen to some unknown guy on YouTube or thousands of professional Architects, Engineers, Physicists, Material Scientists, Controlled Demolition Technicians, etc. who have spent thousands of hours researching and proving the 9/11 controlled demolition involved thermite? No doubt your common sense will prevail and you’ll trust the latter. To begin your journey to irrefutable, science-based truth, watch the YouTube documentary, “9/11: Explosive Evidence – Experts Speak Out” by Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth and then visit their website (AE911Truth.org) to continue your journey to truth.

Trump described it pretty accurately right the first day. He doesn’t talk about why the the buildings came down later, but it’s of course totally obvious that had nothing to do with the planes (or fire/smoke) which were only a distraction, aka a (lousy) pretext, and was controlled demolition (also building 7).

@ Saker
As you will have seen from my posts on the previous 9/1 thread I have become very sceptical of the demolition theory’s mainly due to motive and practicalities of carrying it out.
As most seemed adamant that it was demolition, I have been up to my eyeballs in rivers of molten metal, nukes, oxy/acetylene cut (thermite) steel columns and … up to my eyeballs in rivers of crap it seems.
Fully expected you to come up with something more solid that has to be taken seriously, so as I go through it I will note points that I would like clarified as I go. Perhaps some will be clarified as I work through it but I will put them down as I notice them in different posts.

1)Several people collected dust samples at the time of the collapse, held onto the samples then came forward to the Truth org when it was formed, with their samples. Some gave their samples to others in the field. Who are these people – what are they what is their background?

2)”The DSC tests were conducted at a heating rate of 10 C per minute up to 700 C. During heating the samples were contained in alumina pans….” (I take it that this was physical heating due to the alumina pans)
Further down..
“Further, the DSC traces demonstrate that the red gray chips react vigorously at a temperature below the melting point of aluminium.”

3) The chips appear to consist of a single layer of iron oxide material and a single layer of aluminium.
My understanding of thermite from past reading.. standard thermite is used in engineering for both cutting and welding. A common material welded with thermite is lengths of railway line. The powder is heaped or shaped over it, ignited with something like a magnesium strip , the elemental iron fuses with the rails to be joined.
I have read that thermite is also used as a shaped charge in armour piercing warheads, the super heated directed gases melting through the armour and spraying the interior with molten metal.
For this grade to be used in building demolition I would have thought shaped charges would be required which would require a bonding agent and layer upon layer or more likely a mix of particles in the correct ratio in the shaped charge.

“The Empire has already given up on actively defending its ridiculous conspiracy theory…When challenged, the regime’s sycophants will always resort to their traditional cocktail of straw-man fallacies and ad hominens”

Well, not quite finished:

(From PAU) “demolition, I have been up to my eyeballs in rivers of molten metal, nukes, oxy/acetylene cut (thermite) steel columns and … up to my eyeballs in rivers of crap it seems.
Fully expected you to come up with something more solid that has to be taken seriously”

Peter, I could answer you at length but it would take up too much time. In short, I put my reputation on the line to call the USG’s explanation of 911 as satanic S***.http://www.whatreallyhappened.com is an excellent source on 911.
Regarding explosives, read this as a possibility: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nano-thermite
not to mention why the steel beams were got rid of so fast.
iirc, the WTCs were not fully occupied, and worker/’maintenance’ crews were witnessed beforehand over a period of weeks…doing what exactly?
Regarding motive, are you serious? Look at silverstein’s double insurance claim too. First responders spoke of hearing explosions before the towers came down.

So you don’t believe in controlled demolition and show us links to directed energy weapons apparently to make a point. Now even if (part of) the job was done by means of such a new weapon, the destruction of the WTC buildings would still be demolition and we all know that it was definitely done in a controlled manner. Now please tell me, wouldn’t that still be controlled demolition?

When two 110 storey steel-framed buildings, two 500 million ton blocks of steel and concrete, come apart at a molecular level and blow away in the wind so as to leave no debris pile where once they stood it’s not a “controlled demolition” – it’s a demonstration of the weaponisation of a technology. The previous example of a demonstration of the weaponisation of technology was in Japan in 1945.

The Empire has already given up on actively defending its ridiculous conspiracy theory and it now only counts on the indifference and passivity of its serfs to keep the 9/11 Truth movement as officially ignored as can be.

It seems to be working more than fine.

“Millennials are completely clueless about who was behind the 9/11 terrorist attacks, or what happened. As the fifteen year anniversary approaches, media analyst Mark Dice asked San Diegans about the horrific incident and discovered they are sadly out of touch with reality.”https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gX68N0OLYPQ

For anyone interested I am posting two links someone posted in the comment section on Saker site a while ago. They are interviews with Rebekah Roth about Mossad complicity. She is a flight attendant, a very talented researcher and a great speaker.

Published on Sep 10, 2015
Former flight attendant turned researcher, truth teller and author Rebekah Roth joins me on the 14th anniversary of 9/11 to discuss her new book ‘Methodical Deception’, the follow up to her very popular first book ‘Methodical Illusion’.
In this interview Rebekah drops some bombshells that prove not only that 9/11 was a false flag event long in the planning, but that the operation leads directly back to companies and intelligence assets deeply rooted in and connected to the state of Israel. In fact, some of the information shared in this remarkable interview is so critical for every American to understand that if you don’t want to listen to the full interview, at least make sure you fast forward to the 31:20 mark. Because as Rebekah says, “This is the elephant in the room that nobody wanted to talk about.”https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdP95oSoOFk

Published on Nov 2, 2015
In this interview Rebekah and I discuss some extremely disturbing new evidence that speaks directly to the Israeli art students and their premeditation and intent to murder the occupants in the world trade centers.
METHODICAL DECEPTION: Neocons, Mossad & Premeditated Murder — Rebekah Rothhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjOqcGSTL5M

Very interesting information on the “Art Students” operation. I was also interested in her tie-in to Dick Cheney who was clearly the on-site managing operative during 9/11 (NOT Bush). Not to imply that Cheney was in some sense a mastermind of the operation, he was no doubt following orders.Cheney evidently received his payoff for 9/11 with his appointment to the board of Genie Energy as did Murdoch.

If you believe that two planes took down three buildings in preference to looking and studying how tall buildings can be designed to implode – there are not very many companies world-wide who specialise in large scale demolitions – then I cannot follow your reasoning.

I expect 99.99+% of the dust was powdered concrete. What’s significant is that thermite was found at all. It doesn’t spontaneously self-assemble.

There is video footage in which you can see what appears to be molten iron cascading out of the corner of one of the buildings. Perhaps containment failed at that point, for one of the cutting devices.

A close inspection of the structural steel from the wreckage should be instructive … where did they store that steel?

The steel was sold with unseemly speed to China as scrap. Most of it is now in cars and in the dollar stores and the ‘upscale’ dollar stores like Wal Mart… together with a lot of the victims’ DNA. Clearly, the state was not eager to do forensic testing on that steel.

The steel framework of the two 110 storey towers doesn’t appear in pictures of the scene taken at lunchtime on 911. The ‘steel shipped to China’ narrative is sillier than silly. Where Did The Towers Go? (Dr Judy Wood). Not to China, that’s for sure.

It is my conclusion that the nano thermite found in the dust is from a thermobaric device designed for the towers. The software easily converted (no, probably not easily) from the ones developed for blowing up hardened underground tunnels to the known design of the WTC towers. The inner core columns were cut with the usual shaped charges – some of which went off as the planes hit. Thermobaric devices use the same principle as the occasional coal dust explosions in mines or grain elevator explosions. In this case nanothermite would make a helluva better explosive material than grain dust. It would explain the incredible heat at the Tower collapse field that lasted for weeks. How the concrete floors turned to dust (residual water in the concrete instantaneously converted to steam) – how hundred ton collections of steel were blown sideways hundreds of feet.(Look at the patterns of the outer steel blown oout over the debris field – Why it didn’t look like a normal controlled demolition the way WTC 7 did. (more like a roman candle going off after the tops were destroyed in a more normal way) Thermobaric devices were used in the Gulf war that mimicked nuclear devices in their explosive power but leaving no radiation residues.

“It has been 15 years since the terrible events of 9/11 and it is now a good time to look back at what the 9/11 movement did achieve, but also at where it failed. The biggest and most obvious failure was, of course, the failure to prevent the bloodbath the Empire calls the “GWOT” (Global War on Terror) and all the other wars which the GWOT, in turn, generated in Northern Africa, the Middle-East and elsewhere. Yes, at that we did fail, but I am not quite sure that the blame for it can be put on the 9/11 Truth movement.”

September 11 2001 could, in my view, be seen as the Pindo equivalent to Europe’s August 4 1914. That date proved decisively how very deeply the European Elites of colonial genocidalists, banksters, and royal swine and scum truly were revered by their subjects, beneath a thin surface of political strife. Sadly for the Europeans, their dear Elites had no qualms about bleeding their grovelling subjects white on the battlefield, bringing considerable physical destruction, hunger, and chaos to imperialist Europe itself.

911 took place in very similar circumstances. An extremely reactionary and chauvinistic US Elite, drunken with power and arrogance from not only looting the Third World but also from their total subjugation of Russia and Eastern Europe, thought the time was rife for starting World War 3 in the (already ravaged) Middle East. To make a point — and, most notably, to really make sure for themselves that the average Pindo + the average non-Pindo Westerner hadn’t lost faith in the proverbial 1% — the magnificent 911 “fireworks” were let loose right in the belly of the beast, targeting the very headquarter buildings of the financial and armed wings of Western imperialism. The trick worked admirably, and just like Europe 87 years earlier, the Elites could go ahead since only a scattered few and far between really hated them and their imperialist fatherland wishing the flames of civil war to devour the whole rotten edifice.

Imagine what would have happened in case the destruction at the WTC and the Pentagon — accompanied by a successful attack on the White House as well — had been greeted by overwhelming Schadenfreude in the US as it was in many other places across the planet. Civil war would have ensued instead, making the GWOT utterly impossible. But continued imperialism means more to the wellbeing of the 99% than what is usually admitted even though it comes at a certain risk. Again, the Western Elites don’t have any sense of common interest with their underlings at home either.

In a limited sense, for all its honesty and sincere commitment, the 911 Truth movement shares the blame by its submissive political stance, looking at 911 as something “horrible”, “atrocious”, “shocking”, etc. etc. If the Pindo government actually was complicit — I find the assumption to be quite plausible — then the right thing to do is to tell the flag-waving, arrogant US population that their love of the Deep State seems to be slightly unrequited. Serves Joe and Jane Sixpack right.

Peter AU on September 11, 2016 · at 6:36 am UTC
“As you will have seen from my posts on the previous 9/1 thread I have become very sceptical of the demolition theory’s mainly due to motive and practicalities of carrying it out.”
————————————–
Motives and practicalities are extremely weak counterarguments to overwhelming eveidence of the physical imposibility of the collapses being “organic” without the collaboration of an organizing force of human or divine origin. If human, it has to be some kind of controlled demolition. If divine, it qualifies as a miracle. Fires and impact structural damages don’t cause buildings to pulverize themselves with furious energy but composed symetry, either from the bottom up or from the top down. Fire is not a sargent giving marching drills to matter, nor a choreographer. The visual evidence alone is amply sufficient to render any worries about the difficulties of wiring the buildings or keeping things quiet, totally irrelevant in comparison with the physical imposibility of the collapses being gravity driven. The Manhattan project involved tens of thousands of people. Yet its existence was not even known by the vicepresident, Truman, who had to be told about it when he became president upon Roosevelt’s death. Think about that. http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/truman-is-briefed-on-manhattan-project

@ anonymous
If there was overwhelming evidence that the fast collapse after the initial collapse was not possible then I believe saker would have put it up here.
After one floor has collapsed, a very fast collapse of the reaming building is inherent in the basic structural design.
Wikipedia, the official report, and the truth organisation all seem to agree on the basic structural design.
The specs for the columns at the point of initial collapse not being in the public domain by now is a major problem.

“After one floor has collapsed, a very fast collapse of the reaming building is inherent in the basic structural design.”

My guess is that you forgot about some laws of physics. Even in case you were right then the collapse would still have proceeded too fast and would have defied simple but strict laws of physics. Try again!

Scott quotes Kot Motja as saying “Russia and the USA have a common enemy, and it’s located inside of the USA. This enemy has a power, this enemy is very dangerous…”
I’ve long held that 9/11 was a coup d’etat, and I’m equally “sure” that the Kot’s extraordinary statement reveals the power faction that perpetrated 9/11 (and much else). The necessary corollary is that another faction, perhaps more patriotic, loyal, or simply pragmatic has solicited Russia’s help in overcoming their “common enemy”. An enemy that perhaps neither could handle on their own.

I’m well aware that this is almost vertigo inducing conjecture, but it would not surprise me in the least if something like this is playing out.

Scott seems to like Motja, but Yandex isn’t able to translate his blog. It might be interesting to see a translation for those of us who do not read Russian, with notes about any idioms, cultural references, etc.

But that sounds about right.

It appears to have been scripted/choreographed in much the same way as a color revolution. As if they had the T-shirts and posters with the raised fist printed out ahead of time, waiting for the big event.

And, I am not as optimistic as the Saker that people will come to their senses about this. The overwhelming majority of Americans seem to be clinging to the ‘official narrative’ with an almost religious fervor. Though it does seem that that narrative is being slowly wheeled around to blame the Saudis. Not that they don’t deserve some blame, but perhaps it is to keep the heat off the real terrorists much closer to home.

Has this thing become a running joke in most of the rest of the world? Stupid Americans, don’t even know what’s going on around them?

As a slight aside, the GWOT is very deeply ingrained. The MSM give us our daily dose of terror with police managing to foil plots of suspects influenced by ISIS. The lie is driven hard each day and there is no shortage of actors in our political landscape, police and media who continue to force the message of terror to us to the point where we have to explain this nonsense to our children.

I’m not sure when the current state of madness is going to end because we have been passive spectators for 50-100 years already depending on which view you take (the inception of the Federal Reserve, or the JFK assassination). 9/11 is just a symptom of the continued arrogance, desperation and shows the extent the elites are willing to go to to sacrifice more blood to push through their NWO agenda.

I’m of the view that the only way to end the current madness is to purge the current institutions which we supposedly control. People power is the only way that this can be achieved, peacefully, however it won’t be achieved without yet more blood being spilt. The question, therefore, arises, are we as people who have power over our corrupt governments prepared to fight for this freedom? Is so, for the sake of our children, when will we finally say, “enough is enough!”?

In light of all the controlled opposition used to quell sudden movements, what is the trigger point for the people to take back their government as even a significant minority of non-believers of lies is not enough to trigger a revolution?

The coup d’etat event was JFK assassination 63′, since he was a head of state, but the enabling events were the Federal Reserve Act in 13′ and the creation of the CIA in 47′.

Americans after 15 years are focused on pageantry and protocol rather than actively pursuing their responsibility as citizens to get the perps. to justice who collaborated: Saudi / Israel / Washington DC.

Americans are consumers they don’t want to be citizens.

The Clinton ascension to the throne coupled with the Obama TPP approval will finish off the republic for good.

We Know that Americans are thinking of the incident that occurred of the September 11, 2001 in New York.

That was a Terrorist incident, and there are Many People who think for Good Reasons that it was the Bush and Clinton Dictatorships that did this, and that Saudi Arabia has been Bribing President George Bush the second and the Clintons Dictatorships who would then use those Huge Bribe Monies to Bribe sufficient Members of both major Political Parties and Other Influential Americans, to try to achieve the Evil objectives of Saudi Arabia in the Middle East, North Africa, and Europe.

These People think that that Bribing by Saudi Arabia began during the time of Co President Bill Clinton and Co President Hillary Clinton and that President George Bush the second was Also Bribed by Saudi Arabia at https://www.amazon.com/House-Bush-Saud-Relationship-Dynasties/dp/0743253396 , and that this Bribery it is continuing to this day, with the Clinton’s Puppet Obama Administration, which has continued to make America a Rogue Terrorist War Criminal Nation, that Slanders and Destroys Innocent Nations so that Clinton can Continue to take Bribes from Saudi Arabia, while the American Taxpayers, American People, and the American Soldiers Pay the Price for this Bribery and Corruption, along with Incompetent Government at http://www.usdebtclock.org/ .

At the hearing, Titled “The Outlook for the Independence of Kosova” (the Islamic and dhimmi spelling of Serbia’s Province), Representative Tom Lantos, who was a Democrat, and the Chairman of the Foreign Affairs Committee said the following: “Just a reminder to the predominantly Muslim led governments in this world, that here is yet another example that the United States leads the way for the creation of a predominantly Muslim country in the very heart of Europe. This should be noted by both responsible leaders of Islamic governments, such as Indonesia, and also for jihadists of all color and hue. The United States’ principles are universal, and in this instance, the United States stands foursquare for the creation of an overwhelmingly Muslim country in the very heart of Europe” at http://www.juliagorin.com/wordpress/?p=789 , and if the Entire Article is Read, then People can see that sufficient Republicans and Democrats were Bribed and Continue to be Bribed by the Clintons’ Puppet Obama Administration, who Received those Bribe Monies from Saudi Arabia, and America has been Slandering the Democratically Elected Leader of Syria, and doing this for Bribes from Saudi Arabia, even as the FBI, the Department of Justice, and the State Department was Bribed by the Clintons.

The Clintons said that they were broke and in debt when they left the White House, but the Clintons were Lying Again as Usual, and they were given Immense Wealth by Saudi Arabia, and they had and have their Wealth Concealed in Secret Swiss Bank Accounts, and Offshore Tax Havens, and they are Much Wealthier than Donald Trump.

There are Honest Journalists in the West, who have Researched matters, and we Know that the Clintons began an Illegal and Immoral War on Serbia to take Media Attention away from Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky, and Hillary Clinton wrote in her book that she Persuaded Bill Clinton to do that, and the News Article is Titled: Milosevic: true or false at https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2006/mar/21/tenquestionsonslobodanmilo .

That News Article Says: “How much do you know about Slobodan Milosevic, the recently deceased former president of Yugoslavia? Here’s 10 statements that we’ve all heard many times in the western media these last seven days. But which of them are true and which are false? 1) Milosevic was a dictator. 2) He was a Serb nationalist. 3) He was responsible for the break-up of Yugoslavia. 4) His 1989 speech at Kosovo Polje was a nationalist rant that inflamed ancient ethnic hatreds. 5) He started four wars. 6) He was responsible for the massacre at Srebrenica 7) He ordered a systematic programme of ethnic cleansing in Kosovo. 8) He was toppled by a “democratic revolution” in 2000. 9) The trial at The Hague had produced evidence of his guilt. 10) He will be mourned by “only a few”. How many do you think are true? Seven, eight- all of them? The answer is zero. Every single statement is untrue”, and there is the News Article Titled: The Demonization of Slobodan Milosevic at http://www.michaelparenti.org/Milosevic.html , and it says: There is no better example of the tireless demonization of Democratically Elected President Slobodan Milosevic and the American supported wars against Yugoslavia.

Saddam Hussein was a Puppet of America and he was a Dictator and he was brutal when he needed to be that, because it was the Only way to keep his Country together, which President George Bush the first Acknowledged as the Reason that he did Not topple Saddam Hussein, because Iraq needed a Dictator to keep the Country together.

Saddam Hussein left Kuwait, which was the Reason for the First Gulf War, but he was upset that his retreating Iraqi Soldiers were unnecessarily Murdered by the American Air Force, which is a War Crime.

This is why Saddam Hussein wanted to Sell his Oil in Euros rather than the American Dollar, and it was his Right to Sell his Oil in any Currency that he wanted, which is Currency Democracy, and Not Currency Dictatorship to Only use the American Dollar to Sell their Oil.

This is why George Bush the first then Schemed his Premeditated Cold Blooded War Crime of Invading Iraq, and Hillary Clinton who had Already been Bribed by Saudi Arabia and supported George Bush the second, even though Both of them Knew that President George Bush the first who the Director of CIA said Correctly that removing Saddam Hussein from power, would create more Problems than it tried to solve, and President George Bush the second and the Clintons Knew this.

Donald Trump did not know these things, because after being repeatedly questioned on the Iraq War as to whether he was in favor of it, he answered with what appears to be a pressured answer, and said in a reluctant way, and which it is better to hear the audio than to read it, and he said: “Yeah, I guess so, and I wish that the first time it was done correctly”, and this was during the Manufactured Hysteria of the American Population of been asked by the Deceivers with Deceptive Reasoning in that instance, as to whether they were with America or with Saddam Hussein who they Slanderously blamed was also Responsible for the September 11, 2001 attacks, even though the Real Culprits are Influential Americans.

Saudi Arabia did Not plan September 11, 2001, but President George Bush the second and the Clintons took the Bribes and they Schemed how they would justify the creation of Wars in the Middle East to the American People, and that was the September 11, 2001 attacks in New York, where Hillary Clinton was already a Senator since 2000, and John Kennedy Junior had died in 1999, and could not become Senator for New York.

Iraq did Not have Weapons of Mass Destruction, and Iraq there was No Al-Qaeda in Iraq at that time, because Saddam Hussein did Not allow Al-Qaeda into Iraq, but Al-Qaeda and ISIS are now in Iraq.

There is one thing that is Obvious regarding what really happened on the 11 September 2001 attacks, and that is that no planes were used for that.

One instance is the Alleged United 93 crash site in Shanksville Pennsylvania where what is unreal is corruptly presented as what happened, and the Video is Titled: 9/11 Flight 93 Crash Conspiracy in Under 5 Minutes at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_N-ktM9rGFY .

Another example of the impossible that is corruptly presented as what happened is the Building 7 Collapse, which it is Obvious that it was a controlled demolition, and Osama bin Laden could not have set that up at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mamvq7LWqRU .

Then there is the example of the impossible that is corruptly presented as what happened is Flight 77 which ALLEGEDLY hit the Pentagon and the Video which is Titled: More proof a plane did not hit PENTAGON at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTJehfQkuyE .

We can see the Quality of the Investigations which are Really Cover Ups, that the America Conducts, and the FBI Clinton Cover Up is another example of this, and the type of Collusion by the Puppet Fifth Columnist Western Mainstream Media, is covering up the Facts that regardless of what other things that Osama bin Laden has done, that he is Innocent of the 11 September 2001 attacks on America.

This is some of the Real Story behind what was the Real Reason for the September 11, 2001 attacks on America.

This is why there are People who think that Countries should bring Charges of Genocide and Crimes against Humanity against the Rogue War Criminal American Government.

War against Serbia in 1999 was not started to deflect controversy from a blowjob in the White House. War against Serbia was really started in 1991 and continued for a decade militarily.

As to why – reasons are many. I would say that the 2 most important reasons are:
#1 To strategically position a NATO military base and completely occupy a region that is considered a crossroad between civilizations.
#2 Empire hates Christians, with a particularly vigorous hatred of Slavs.

To clarify, I say Christians referring to what would be called Orthodox Christianity in English. I do not consider Catholicism, or various Protestant denominations, Christianity. As though I do believe that there are truly faithful Christians within those denominations, most of the mainstream priests, popes, and pastors are vile and disgusting pedophiles, homos, and other such kinds of perverts. There is not a trace of Christianity left in mainstream societies of the Western world. I am not thrilled with the state of affairs of clergy in the Christian world either. Still, I am not worried about taking my kids to church and leaving them to talk to a priest.

That was a bit off topic. On topic, I completely understand The Saker when he says that it took him years to finally accept the truth. It was not easy for me either to come to terms with the personification of evil that rules the Empire. When one does finally comprehend the magnitude of what really took place on 9/11, one also accepts that the elites who comprise the United States government are traitorous and ready for anything, including nuclear war, to preserve their dominance.

A big building like that should create a seismic signal when it hit the ground. No seismic signal = not enough material hitting the ground. Where Did The TowersGo? Cut the sound track and listen to the reality. The ‘collapse’ was silent. If the building really did collapse it should have sounded as if were raining dump trucks.

I’d say the competition is very stiff indeed here. Just look at the honorary Euro-trash of Eastern Europe. We saw how Kiev went totally apeshit in December 2013 with Victoria Nuland proving Marie Antoinette right. To wit: Let them eat cake and the slobs will enjoy outright coprophagia out of sheer gratitude.

Nice try. Why the “truth movement” can’t make a dent to reach some people is simply the fact that those so called researcher can’t even talk to one another. All they do is yell ad hominem to one another with a vengeance.

I expected at least that group could defend their work with well documented arguments/facts but no they act like the cabal they pretend to loath.

“The 9/11 survivor, who is campaigning for greater healthcare for those affected by the disaster, also wants an independent inquiry to look into what actually happen on September 11 in more detail.

“It is outrageous what we have gone through… the wars… Since 9/11, 57,000 factories have been closed in this country; $5 trillion have been spent and lost because of this, and we have had one illegal war after another. The questions, even the simplest of questions, have never been answered,” he said.

Alarmingly, DeSantis alleges that the authorities have tried to cover-up certain aspects of the terrorist attacks.

“How do buildings with 250,000 tons of structural high-grade steel, four inches thick, collapse at the speed of gravity and accelerating in its speed of collapse as it came down. There is only one way that can happen and that is a controlled demolition. I lived it, I was there and I heard the explosions, but it seems every time that you share this, it gets edited out.”

Please show some respect, vot tak. Are you denying the miraculous discovery of Mohammed Atta’s passport in the rubble?

On a side note, it’s quite strange they haven’t substituted Putin/Assad for Bin Laden/Saddam Hussein as yet. After all, US propaganda was never meant to convince people with an eye for consistency, let alone common sense.

A couple observations. First, the official story, including the official culprit, was given to the media by Ehud Barak, in a BBC interview on 9/11; the towers had not fallen yet. Second, Ehud Barak is Israeli military intelligence. Third, when he was still in the field, he was the commanding officer of one Benyamin Netanyahu, who in turn happens to be, fourth, a very close friend of Larry Silverstein who operated the WTC.

With the three A’s in mind, let’s go to the three P’s. Predict, Plan and Proceed as think that’s where the Masters of War arrived in 2001. What’s the Prediction(s)? I forsee Depopulation, useless eaters a certain Mr K called the general masses, even while they had some use. I would be interested in other comments as I have found myself somewhat isolated from this discussion with others since I openly questioned the government conspiracy theory.

Yes Roc, I empathize as we share the same problem, but my disbelief began on 911 as I knew I was witnessing the implementation of Operation Northwoods. So did the late Mike Rupert, who killed himself for being right. My kin don’t like the fact that I do as much as I can to not finance the Outlaw US Empire’s terrorism–which is actually obeying the law–and have become utterly incompetent as citizens despite my efforts to educate. At least the goal of establishing a global totalitarian empire has failed, but a huge amount of justice needs to be meted out to the neculturny nomenclatura.

Dostoevsky observed during prison that surprise was interpreted as low intelligence. These types of events happen constantly. There is no way to force the ignorant to be observant. Only self-righteous Americans could believe anything so ridiculous. A certain group takes control of govt institutions. An opposing “truth movement” forms spontaneously to attempt enlisting the clueless public into resisting. But as we have seen the public is mostly on board with the agenda.
America has been living on financial steroids and will do anything to avoid shrinking testacles, but it is unavoidable. It will go on trying new concoctions, with the public’s blessing, until the bitter end. The biomass will be recycled.

My favourite tools to induce cognitive dissonance in the illiterates who still believe in the official conspiracy theory are the David Handschuh photo of the alleged impact of flight 175 w/o any indication of a plane being involved (David Handschuh said: “I was underneath it. I was looking at the tower. I had my camera in my hand. I heard the noise. I never saw the airplane. . . . I was less than a hundred yards away from the building. I was standing on West St.”) and the Michael Hezarkhani Video which proves, beyond any doubt, the use of (layered) CGI (Computer Generated Imagery), then still in its infancy. The targeted individual will be first confused, and then starts investigating or shuns you. What more can you hope for? Yes, separate the wheat from the chaff.

Alternatively you could start by asking your friends how many buildings they know to have fallen that day. 9 in 10 will mention WTC 1 and 2, depending on who you hang out with they’ll append a cautious “but more must have come down or affected as a consequence”. Most people won’t recall WTC7 images. There’s your starting point…

Most Americans outside New York State, probably won’t know about those “buildings”. They are just known as the “Towers” or “Twin Towers”. So,yes,people might say 2 buildings. But its doubtful they would be talking about “building 1 and building 2,etc”. To most of the people they are just “a set” and thought of together.You would have to be a student of the attack,probably a “truther” to study it. Most people think of it as a “terrorist attack on our freedoms”,by “bad” Muslim terrorists from the Middle East (which countries ,mostly unknown.But probably “Afghanistan or Iraq” are the first guesses).Other than to spur patriotism or hated of Muslims,9/11 isn’t thought of that much anymore except on the week of “9/11”.One of my friends complained that they had kids in three separate schools,and teachers last week didn’t even mention 9/11 in any of them.The US has become a “sound-bite” and “15 minutes of fame” society. If something can’t be explained in short sound bites. And if it happened more than 15 minutes ago,well good luck getting people to think about it much. It would have to be drummed into people’s minds regularly for them to remember it. And the drum beat of 9/11 ended years ago.

@Peter AU. Valid questions but still you are questioning not what happened but how it was done. Thats a question, as The Saker points out, that does not have to be answered by the 911 Truth movement. But rather by a real investigation.

I too was a long time skeptic of the 911 Truth movements claims. Not because I did not think the US deep state capable of doing 911, I believed then and now that they are fully capable of such evil, but because I was not convinced by the claims themselves and I did not see how it could have been done. Its entirely possible that that the buildings were old and poorly constructed in the first place. These buildings had been considered marvels and symbols of American achievement, so nobody would have wanted to admit that a shoddy job had been done putting them up and that fire could thus bring them down. This was my reasoning.

What convinced me otherwise was WTC7. I had been vaguely aware of the building, but not the specifics of its collapse. When I began looking at the specifics, the size and distribution of the fire there for instance, it became absolutely clear that it had to be demolition. Free fall just sealed the deal for me. If WTC7 was a demolition job then what of the other two towers? The answer was obvious.

In my experience there is little awareness of WTC7 in the general public’s mind. Most people I encounter are not really clear about WTC7 and what happened there. But WTC7 holds the key to understanding 911. Perhaps this lack of exposure and understanding is a failure of the 911 Truth Movement.

Anyway I don’t share The Saker’s confidence that anything will change if the American public learn the truth that 911 was an inside job. I think they’ll just shrug and get on with football season or whatever new season of whatever is on TV. The US public is too stupefied to act against the deep state. They just want to forget and to believe that the steak is real.

That is essentially identical to the way I came to my conclusions about the event.

In 2001, I did not see WT7 fall. I had gone home, and turned off the TV in disgust. Figured they’d be starting WWIII any second, and just did my best to ignore it for several years. Then in 2005, someone pointed out a video of the collapse, and it was immediately obvious what that was. 1 and 2 were messier affairs, they were unusual top-down demolitions.

@Ngoyo
What has convinced me to look into the possible controlled demolition of WTC1/2 is also seeing the footage of WTC7. The controlled demolition of the two towers in conjunction with the plane strikes is an incredibly complex task which is what has made me look closely at the evidence supporting this theory.
As you say all events surrounding 9/11 need to be investigated by a credible investigation.
If efforts to bring in something like a court backed credible public investigation rely on their calculation of the collapse speed of the towers, I feel they will fail.
This collapse speed seems to be a very big part of the evidence if not all the evidence supporting controlled demolition so that is what I look at most.
Their collapse speed calculations rest entirely on the load bearing columns still resisting the downward force of the top section after the initial collapse.

The finding of explosive material in the dust may not be enough. There are several ambiguities there. I take it for granted that the material given to researchers was professionally and correctly analysed. It was considered the material was most likely used as electric matches or detonators. Used as such there would be a much larger quantity of explosive or incendiary matter also present in the same dust. Perhaps it was used for another purpose that the researchers were unaware of.

There is much needs investigating about 9/11. A lot of people have much to hide. Surely they would not stoop so low as to pass on false evidence or infiltrate those calling for an investigation to try and discredit the movement?
After seeing what has been put up here I am starting to suspect that this is what is occurring.

I was watching cable news one day and was shocked when Rudy Guillani casually admitted that building 7 was brought down by explosives. Of course he said it was because the building was thought to be unstable and the decision was made not to tell people, although he ‘wishes they had.’

The two aircrafts that, on 9/11/2001, crashed, each one on each of the two WTC towers, were B767-200 models. Those aircrafts can have a maximum quantity of fuel of about 22 tons. Probably it was less, being the paying load much less than the maximum allowable on both the flights.

On 3 September 2016 a Falcon9 rocked exploded and totally burned in Florida before lift-off. There are several videos of this events that are worth to see. It was anchored to a launch tower made of steel, of about 70 m of height. The engines of the two stages of this rocket use liquid Oxygen (LOX) to burn a special high grade kerosene, called RP-1. This type of fuel has a burning temperature of more than 3000 Celsius also at zero pressure. The Falcon9 has a total quantity of such fuel (for its two stages) of about 93 tons.
As a result, at the end of the burning, the tower was still standing.

Of course Falcon9 was burning outside, in open air, and not indoor as in 9/11, but the fuel was at least four times more in quantity and more powerful than usual jet fuel and it could burn much better outside than indoor having at disposal all the Oxygen it needed.

The fact is, that the (more or less) same murderous people responsible for 911 are responsible for the attack on the Donbass people, made up of the neocons: evil jews and evil americans.

‘planned under a Democractic Administration’ – that doesn’t necessarily mean anything, and especially not to get people to think the CA had anything to do with it – see PNAC’s letter to clinton in the 90s about attacking Iraq, which he refused/ignored.

To help decide on what happened on 911, you can extrapolate backwards from the invasion of Iraq, and the lies involved by the same people regarding their narrative of 911, i.e. WMDs are BS, therefore 911 is too (the same crowd has no credibility except insofar as being liars, and, in fact, lying murderers).

By the way, WTC7 had a very large gash roughly in the centre covering many floors due to debris from one of the falling WTCs, iirc, which should still not have had it coming down as if a controlled demolition.

The American Dream has become the American Nightmare.

A very good site and highly recommended by me (although not all of it, but definitely almost 100% regarding 911 & invasion of Iraq) is http://www.whatreallyhappened.com

I stumbled upon the truth about 911 shortly afterwards in Oct 2011; in those days there was a person called Rudy iirc, a Canadian, who said certain contradictory things to what the USG had said about 911, then it was on to rense.com (don’t go there anymore, for a long time now) and onwards.

Few knew/know that the policy planner for attaining Full Spectrum Dominance–Vision 2010–was published prior to the PNAC’s paper that essentially advocated for same. Both resulted from GHW Bush’s ordination of the New World Order after the demise of the USSR and victory in Gulf War 1. The public’s questioning of the lack of a “Peace Dividend” led to the need to implement Operation Northwoods to ensure the lack of resistance to the Vision 2010 policy, which was repeated as Vision 2020 during BushCo’s reign. The thread goes back to the end of WW2 at the Cold War’s beginning and what the Dulles brothers and their coterie wanted to accomplish–neocon philosophy’s nothing new.

Back up for a moment from the destruction of the towers, etc. On 9-11 2001 we are asked to believe that the most powerful (and expensive) defense and security aparatus ever assembled on this earth was completely overcome by guys with box cutters and limited flight training (and no practical experience) that took over four civilian airliners and over the course of several hours flew them into buildings including one (the pentagon) that was within a high security ‘no-fly zone’ and had an air defense mechanism. During this several hour period there was no military response and standard procedures for intercepting hijacked aircraft were completely disregarded. Despite this colossal and unprecedented failure the same security aparatus knew immediately, without any investigation, exactly by who and how this attack had been perpetrated, the attack they had utterly failed to protect the USA against. The attack was not prevented despite multiple warnings from a variety of sources over the months leading up to the attack. Following the attack, despite the abject failure of the defense and security aparatus, no one was held accountable or punished (in fact many of those responsible received promotions and commendations for their behavior on that day.)…. well, it is true that some whistle blowers who raised doubts about the official story were punished.

Following the main attack weaponized and extremely toxic anthrax was mailed to leading figures in the news media and to politicians who were opposed to passage of the so called “Patriot Act”. Following the attacks any remaining organized opposition to the Patriot Act disapated and questioning the official 9-11 story became essentially political suicide and lead to accusations or insinuations of treason against the state. The attack was blamed on Iraq or some other foreign agent but when the anthrax was analyzed the souce turned out to be a US bio weapons lab. No perpetrator was ever definitively identified although one person was accused and then exonerated (and then sued for damages) and another committed suicide.

Evidence of massive fraud and waste in military procurement and operations was destroyed in the Pentagon blast and evidence of criminal behavior in the corporate world was destroyed when WTC building 7 was destroyed.

Anyone smell a rat? Frankly speaking, anyone NOT smell the stench of a rat?

@pessimist Excellent comment and broad summary especially the mention of the anthrax letters.

Thousands died on 9/11 but only five died from anthrax. However, although I was shocked by the 9/11 events, it was only during the anthrax events that I began to feel real fear.

The anthrax letters were initially sent out one week after 9/11 and appeared to have been written by Muslim extremists. By Oct 5, the anthrax was identified as the Ames strain and the source as the United States Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases (USAMRIID) the primary bioweapons research facility of the US Army.

It seemed ludicrous to think that a high security military lab could have been compromised by al qaeda. Even if one were to believe this, the sending of the letters could have provided virtually no marginal benefit to al queda as a terror weapon.

Due to the identified source of the anthrax, I could not see how any other conclusion could be reached but that members of the military or intelligence services must have been involved in (at least) sending the letters and (likely) the 9/11 attacks themselves. This implied to me that those behind 9/11 were far more dangerous than Arabs with box cutters.

Although of little value as a terror weapon (especially after the 9/11 events). The letters did serve one very important function.

After 9/11, the USA Patriot Act, a wish list of police state procedures was introduced in Congress. Under normal circumstances the Patriot Act could have not passed Congress. The post 9/11 political climate was an ideal time to re-introduce it. Resistance within the Senate persisted, however. On October 2-4 concerns were expressed on the bill by Senate Majority Leader Daschle and Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Leahy. On Oct 9 identical anthrax letters were sent to the office of each Senator. On Oct 25, the Senate passed the bill 98 to 1.

The fact that letters containing military grade anthrax were sent to two powerful US Senators conveyed a powerful message. Namely that the senders not only included elements within the US government, but that they were arrogant enough to discount any investigation which would surely follow. The Senate clearly got the message.

With that, I could only conclude that these events constituted a coup and an important historical turning point.

No plausible suspects (with credible motive) were ever identified by the FBI. Dr Stephen Hatfill was hounded for years before being exonerated and awarded a 4.6 million dollar settlement for defamation. Dr Bruce Ivins was named as a suspect seven years after the events. No motive was ever advanced and he committed suicide before being brought to trial.

A plausible suspect, a Dr Philip Zack, was never investigated by the FBI despite known hatred of Muslims. Dr Zack had been dismissed from USAMRIID in the early 90s but had frequently returned to meet with friends and conduct off-hours experiments in violation of protocols and regulations.

…and regarding the tower demolition you can’t generate pyroclastic clouds from a gravity collapse – insufficient energy. Explosives WERE used – it’s what we wintessed on TV on the day of, what people there heard and experienced and was the general concensus by news commentators and eyewitnesses the day of the event – until the official story/explanation arrived and became dominant over about a 24 hour period.

A pyroclastic flow (also known scientifically as a pyroclastic density current[1]) is a fast-moving current of hot gas and rock (collectively known as tephra), which reaches speeds moving away from a volcano of up to 700 km/h (450 mph).[2] The gas can reach temperatures of about 1,000 °C (1,830 °F). Pyroclastic flows normally hug the ground and travel downhill, or spread laterally under gravity.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyroclastic_flow

Hmmm, are you opposed to my use of the term in this context? Let’s see – fast moving current(s) of hot gas and rock (in this case mainly concrete dust and gypsum), check. Travel downhill and spread laterally under(the force of) gravity, check. “up to 700kph” = extreme upper bound of phenomenon. Likewise “The gas can reach temperatures of about 1,000 °C (1,830 °F)” represents the extreme upper bound, not a lower limit or ‘typical’ temperature. These flows cool and slow down as they move away from the source. The term has been used to describe the behavior and character of the dense clouds of dust that enveloped lower Manhattan following the collapse of the towers. I personally think the use of the term in this context appropriate to describe what occurred.

Pyroclastic flows are generated by the explosive forces in volcanic eruptions and generally have an upper ‘layer’ of dust and a lower component of larger material which is generally extremely hot. The dust cloud portion is very dense and is acted upon by gravity and flows downhill just as the heavier lower layer does. Pyroclastic flow from Monserat volcano:

Opening sentence from that pub: “On September 11, 2001, as the twin towers of the World Trade Center exploded and collapsed…” Their words, not mine “exploded”. Very descriptive, and that IS exactly what happened. The towers exploded and disintegrated into piles of rubble and gigantic clouds of dust. They did not “fall down” because they were struck by airplanes. Look at the pictures – don’t you believe your own eyes? A tremendous amount of heat caused a dense plume of dust to billow skyward as pulverized concrete and steel is ejected outward with tremendous force.

People like Peter A U are either confusing themselves unnecessarily or deliberately trying to confuse others.

Hundreds of eyewitnesses heard, saw, and experienced explosions as the towers collapsed. We all saw the towers explode and disintegrate on live TV. Yet the false narrative still rules the day and 15 years later here we still are arguing about it.

So, back to the subject – glowing hot pumice clouds – no. Explosive eruption with dust driven by hot gases until cooling and gravity takes over – I really think this is what the pictures show. What to call it? Doesn’t really matter – still a tragedy and a travesty and a crime against humanity.

*No endorsement of the websites linked to except for the USGS is implied – didn’t spend the time to thoroughly check them, but the images are instructive.

The dust cloud was not hot. There are no reports of people being burned. We have all seen the pictures of Newy Yorkers covered from head to toe in dust, brushing themselves down or just disbelieving … but no one is complaining about heat. The dust is not hot.

This always reminds me of the B52 bomber that flew straight in to the Empire State Building at about two thirds the way up in 1946.

The bomber exploded and some of the structure’s facade fell away on the floor of the impact and the two adjoining floors, but there was NO structural damage witness the Empire State still stands today.

But just as with JFK you must always follow the money as they say. Who gains from this?

JFK issued a presidential decree no 11110 in which he declared he would issue debt free currency based upon silver. This only threatened the Fed…the privately owned issuer of dollars. Everyone else would benefit from this order.

Thus the only benefactors of shooting JFK were the Fed’s owners and share holders! QED.

As with 9/11 and the ensuing never ending wars and arming of US police forces. Who stands to gain the most? The Fed’s owners and shareholders. QED.

It is not difficult to work out who murdered JFK & 3000 US citizens on 9/11. Just follow the money and you find yourself at the front door of the usuarous Fed. QED. Simples…

There are two major problems here that I cannot get past.
1) Out of apparently four random samples of dust taken by four random people, each have contained chips (not chemical traces) of what has been described as super-thermite and most likely used in electric matches or detonators.
This would indicate that it is evenly distributed through the thousands of tons of dust covering and around the site. accordingly there would need to be many tons of detonators – not explosives but detonators – that did not explode.

2) I was hoping to see the the specifications of the cross section and grade of steel for the columns.
The Truth movement does not have this. They have increased the strength rating of the columns from the official report??? This would have importance from the initial collapse.

3) the main part of the case rest on the downward acceleration of the collapsed section of building.
Gravity acceleration of mass vs resistance.
For some reason the truthers use the full tensile or compression strength of the columns in their calculations for resistance. After the initial collapse, the columns above will no longer be resting on the columns below. it is virtually impossible for one floor to collapse and the columns above bring down all their weight on the columns below.
After the initial collapse the weight will transfer to the floor below the collapse, the only weight being transfered to the columns is through the attachment of the floor trusses to columns. Maximum load transfer to columns would be equivalent to floor truss to column attachment shear strength.

Resistance to acceleration would equal mass of floor (including trusses, ribbed sheeting and whatever other mass is on that floor, internal non load bearing partitioning, and shear strength of floor truss to column joint. The full load bearing capacity of the columns cannot be taken into account as it virtual impossible for them to be bearing the load.

Floors shearing off the columns also appears to be confirmed by the remaining standing columns in photos of the debris site. Also complete wall column modules free of attachments can be seen falling down the outside of the buildings in many of the videos and still shots of the collapsing buildings.

If the truth movements case for bringing this to court rests on the acceleration of WTC 1 and 2, then this is deeply flawed.

The only way the load bearing capacity of the columns could be used in acceleration calculation after the initial collapse is this.
1) On the collapsing floor, the columns would need to be cleanly cut and blasted out of the way to allow a perfectly vertical drop.
2)With out end plating, the meeting ends of the square hollow sections would slide and slice through each other, so the cut ends of the column would need to be plated to allow the full load bearing capacity of the columns to be used in resistance calculations.

In all the videos I have watched of the initial collapse of both buildings, I see no sign of column sections being blasted clear.

#1 of peter’s comment, on the nano thermite traces found, is nothing but an elaborate strawman argument. Nothing of substance and specious arguments. Standard trolling 101 that anyone who has followed discussions of these zionazi false flag attacks has already seen reams of. I didn’t bother reading the comment further. 10 to 1 that any claims made were completely unsupported with reviewable sources.

Looking into this the last few days has been very tiring. It is like wading into a seething mass of ignorance that is commonly called humanity or civilisation.
It makes me realise the world will never change from what it is now and has always been.

The blind perhaps religious belief of those that follow official disinformation and those that blindly follow alternative disinformation is far more than I realised.
The pressure from all sides it to conform, to fit in. To have a religious faith that puts reasoning aside.

There were many emergency 911 calls to the operator that were recorded … google it. People telling of loud explosions in the WTC buildings. Think about it, how could buildings possibly free fall unless the bottom is first taken out?

The plane images were nothing but holographic creations designed to fool the unsuspecting public. And it sure has worked thanks to the MSM… until I woke up but many a few years later after much research thanks to the Truth Movement.

The trouble is that people still believe that such beliefs are the realm of tin-foil hat wearers and are just plain lazy and ignorant of the facts.

From 30 sec in – the floors ABOVE the impact zone and active burning begin to disintegrate with clouds of black dust and smoke billowing outward. As you watch the ENTIRE upper section of the tower disintegrates before the lower portion begins to do the same. Gravity collapse from structural failure due to impact???

The larger (than North Tower) upper portion buckles at the left corner and tilts considerably as it disintegrates ABOVE the lower portion. This top piece should have tumbled, mostly intact, toward the ground, but it doesn’t. Instead, like the north tower, it too disintegrates into clouds of dust. It does not ‘fall onto the building below’ causing the tower to collapse. The building structure below also disintegrates with copious amounts of material being ejected from all sides.

I have suspected that Peter AU is indeed some form of troll. On the small chance his recurring preplexity might be genuine, I offer him these two short presentations by Graeme MacQueen on the topic of firefighter/responder testimony. As MacQueen explains, a few days after the events, the New York City fire commissioner had the great idea of interviewing all the firefighters and responders who had been at the scene on 9/1,1 before their memory of what they had witnessed had time to fade or get too distorted. There were hundreds such interviews. One very consistent fact most firefighters describe as having witnessed is the large *explosions* that took place inside the buildings before they came down. All kinds of explosions. This is extremely hard evidence to dismiss, and it is a good test to detect trolls by examining their response to it. Whenever you hear someone dismissing the accounts of all these firefighters, arguing for example that what the firefighters perceived as explosions were not explosions, you can be pretty sure of their trolling essence.

Below are the two segments, about ten minutes each, where MacQueen presented the testimonies that he had carefully examined. The first segment deals mostly with the general nature of the collapses, their pulverizing nature, and can be skipped for the purpuse at hand. The part about the firefighters testimonies begins near the end of the first segment, at 8:29, and continues throughout the entire duration of the econd segment (about 10 minutes). It is quite compelling.

There is much that needs investigating about the destruction of the world trade center. there is a lot of government secrecy and cover up surrounding this. From the boys club of psychopaths who leased the floors that were hit by the planes in the two buildings, to the secrecy around the cleanup operation, to the collapse of WTC 7.

But this truther movement are doing themselves a great dis-service if the above calculations on the collapse of the twin tower is their official position. It totally destroys their credibility on the engineering aspect.

If my position is similar or the same as the official version, then so be it. I can only say so far that the official version of the collapse of building 1 and 2 is far more likely to be correct than the truther version.

I see the truth movement have been unable to obtain plans that show the column specs for the floors where the initial collapse occurred That this is not by now in the public domain seems unusual/suspicious.
With column specs the probability of the planes impact and subsequent fire could be calculated in ball park figures of unlikely, possible, very likely.
There are no precedents for a 300 ton aircraft traveling at 4-500 miles per hour hitting buildings of this design.
Because there is no precedent and no column specs available it is impossible to say – yes the plane and fire caused the collapse, or no the plane and fire did not cause the collapse.

It seems the official report concentrates on the initial collapse, contending that downwards force of the dropping top section then has to be absorbed by the non load bearing floor.

The truth movement concentrates on the subsequent complete building collapse, contending that the downward force of the dropping upper section will be directed onto the load bearing columns. Did the downward force impact directly on the columns or did it impact on the non load bearing floor? This point is absolutely critical to all further truth movement calculations on WTC1 and 2. If this is not correct then all calculations past this point are rendered void.

“There are no precedents for a 300 ton aircraft traveling at 4-500 miles per hour hitting buildings of this design.”

According to mr Robertson the towers were designed to easily withstand collosions by fully loaded Boeing 707’s, an aircraft of some lesser mass but higher max speed at that level of flight and with very comparable kinetic energy.

Peter, did you ever watch how large aircraft are demolished at those vast ac graveyards in the US? They simply drop a piece of thick sheetmetal from a couple of feet above which chops off any piece they choose. That includes the wing spars being sheared off like they were made of butter.

A wide body that taxies into any object at the airport is immediately grounded, inspected, and most often repaired because damage is practically certain. Aluminium ally skin thickness varies mostly between .03 (glued to honeycomb) and 1mm, with some local exceptions. WTC 1 and 2 would shred any aircraft to slivers except for the undercarriage and the engine cores.

I have dropped a piece of steel into a puddle and seen the result. Look up water jet cutting.

Energy is the key.
A mass traveling at speed has a high amount of energy. Increase the speed or increase the mass and the energy is increased accordingly.

Take a bullet for example. Copper alloy jacket, lead alloy core. Both the copper and lead are far softer than steel but the bullet, depending on weight and velocity will punch a hole through a reasonable thickness of steel.
If the same bullet were put in a press, and pressed against the same piece of steel, the bullet would pancake out, perhaps without making any indentation in the steel.

On 9-11 I was in my car at a rest stop near Oceanside, CA, beside Camp Pendleton. A young Asian friend came up.
“Do you have your radio on?”
“No.”
“Two hijacked planes hit the Twin Towers in New York, and both buildings fell down.”
“You mean ‘bits fell off of them’. The whole building couldn’t fall down.”
“Well, that’s what they’re saying.”
“Impossible. Consider the difference in mass. Those buildings are an entire block. I’ve been in them.”
“Well, the burning jet fuel affected the steel girders and that’s why they fell.”
“The gas tanks are in the wings; there’s not that much gas in them. Besides, you can’t heat steel sufficiently except in very high-temperature ovens. That’s why the Chinese backyard steel-making failed.”
“Well, that’s what they’re saying caused the buildings to fall down.”
“Nonsense. An operation of that size would have to be carried out by an intelligence service & couldn’t be done by hijacked planes.”

I didn’t follow the story at all. I was too disgusted that people could believe anything so transparently false. Seven years later, sitting at a new computer, it occurred to me that I’d never seen the pictures of the planes colliding w the buildings which they did NOT knock down. I called them up on the computer screen, but I couldn’t seem to get the REAL pictures, just these cartoon mockups.

At last I had to admit that the cartoon image of a plane actually entering the building and leaving a cartoon outline of itself on the wall was all there was. I lost respect for people that day. How can anyone believe that an airplane can cut through concrete and steel w/o slowing down, w/o deforming, w/o losing its wings or any bits? The front cabin requires an extra layer of metal. To protect it from bird-strikes! It would be easier to drive your car thru a brick wall while leaving an outline of the car cut out as w a cookie-cutter.

People violate their own minds by accepting others as authorities w the power to impeach their thought. And in the whole of my life that is the fact that has surprised & disappointed me the most.

““You mean ‘bits fell off of them’. The whole building couldn’t fall down.”
“Well, that’s what they’re saying.”
“Impossible. Consider the difference in mass. Those buildings are an entire block. I’ve been in them.”

^ That’s kind of remarkable. I remember saying the same thing almost word for word.

I was at work at the time, but they did have the news on. Trouble is that the news channel only had this footage on a loop of the planes hitting the towers, and they were talking to one random guest/witness after another. They didn’t have live footage, which that on itself should be rather suspicious since these big news, like this one tend to have live footage as soon as they can arrange to get a crew at the scene.

The thing is when the first tower collapsed, there wasn’t footage of it. A colleague came over and told me what happened. I’ve said to him the above highlighted quote.

That’s the one thing plenty of people didn’t realize at the time of the event, unless you’ve been to New York and visited the Towers, it’s hard to wrap your head around the size of them. When I went there, I was expecting them to be tall (that was a given), but I wasn’t prepared for the huge size of them at their base. The quote above said; “an entire block.” For those unfamiliar with the term, a block is roughly a standard 100 square meters, that’s absolutely humongous, you can build several huge buildings in a block. Both towers were about the size of a block (circumference), each.

That’s why when my collogue told me one of the towers have collapsed, I didn’t believe him, well, not that I didn’t believe him, I didn’t believe the reporting of the collapse in the news. I thought, it maybe was a possible partial collapse or bits of the building coming down.

Hand in heart, I thought the news were exaggerating for sensationalist effect since they didn’t show any live footage, they’ve could have been saying whatever they wanted for ratings.

It wasn’t until the following morning that they actually had footage of the Towers coming down. I won’t lie to you: I couldn’t believe my eyes.
Unfortunately, I wasn’t as savvy back then as you, Penelope. But the fact that the towers came down so easily never sat right with me.

I was facing very serious personal and financial problems at the time, and I didn’t have Internet access back then, I had to rely on books or news paper articles (which are close to useless, as we all know).

Sometime mid 2002 I came across David Icke’s book: “Alice in Wonderland and the World Trade Center Disaster.” In fairness to him, if you ignore all those crazy ideas about alien reptilians, what he wrote there about 9/11 was rather spot-on, with loads of footnotes and references. Considering this book was printed only a year after 9/11, it was a treasure-trove of info at the time. At least for me it was, anyways. Not to mention it confirmed to me, what I intuitively knew all along.

And as the say… the rest is history.

And nothing, that’s my story about how I knew from back in 2002 how 9/11 was most definitely an inside job. Eventually, I did manage to get internet access and graduated to better sources about the 9/11 conspiracy than David Icke ;-).

TooLegit2Quit said:
“When I went there, I was expecting them to be tall (that was a given), but I wasn’t prepared for the huge size of them at their base. The quote above said; “an entire block.” For those unfamiliar with the term, a block is roughly a standard 100 square meters, that’s absolutely humongous, you can build several huge buildings in a block”
———————
What do you mean 100 square meters?? The towers were 208 x 208 feet, which is about 63.4 x 63.4 meters, which means about 4,000 square meters in surface.

You’re absolutely correct, I f*cked it up.
Back home a block (or a town block) is a 100 meters X a 100 meters, which in turn is used as a popular standard measure to judge distance. When I saw the towers, to me they looked about a block wide each. You said the towers actually were 64 meters by 64 meters at the base, well, that’s close enough to a block and way bigger than a block if you put them side by side. In any case, incredibly huge.

I figured a while back that the US government was involved in 9/11. Whether a 100% ,or knew about the plan and enhanced it to make it succeed bigger than expected. I also figured that the Israelis were involved as well. They benefited more than even the US government from it.And I’ve always believed that in a criminal case you always look at “who benefits” first. So I’m much more interested in that “angle” of 9/11. Not so much on “how” it was done to bring the Towers down in the technical sense.But “who and why”,is where my interests lay. To me this is a two part investigation. Similar to the police determining the “type” of gun used in a murder is one part. But “who” pulled the trigger of that gun.And “why” they pulled the trigger.That is what interests me more.

UBob:
I agree that the mind jumps immediately to “who did it?” Who *could have* done it? Becuase the cover story of who did it is so important to the perpetrators to have established: It’s like the “who” was more important to the perps than anything else about it. Putting out the “highjacking/boxcutter” legend.

And I don’t quarrel with your particular area of interest. But I would say the following:

1. Of course the “who” is important to any investigation: creating hypotheses of different kinds and then matching them to leads, which are then followed up. But in a real criminal investigation, speculations as to “who” are not allowed to distort actual evidence. In the 9/11 case, speculations as to “who” are used to discredit and ridicule the efforts of truth seekers to find out what happened, in the absence of a genuine reliable investigation that builds up a body of factual information.

2. Thus, of course one continues to speculate, but I would say the speculation is more sensible when built on as many facts as possible. If you have read Douglass, The Unspeakable, you will see that Douglass does not come out and say who he thought planned the assassination of JFK. He presents and through more research genearates a huge amount of evidence that points right at a conspiracy hatched or at least run within the CIA and supported by a number of other players. This conclusion is almost inescapable if you read the book and all of the notes. A genuine investigation would have been given very s trong direction by the evidence Douglass presents, but of course, the Warren Commission was formed to head off any real investigation.

the film did not say X did it. It presents the most compelling evidence on a number of fronts that undermines the official story in an orderly and convincing way, with “testimony” from sources I had not yet heard from. For example, information from a longtime FAA official on changes in the protocols made by *Rumsfeld* in June that resulted in no fighter jets being scrambled on 9/11, and other issues.

Some comments on the film thread have said: Well, that evidence implies that the Saudis did it, yet we “know” from other evidence presented in the film that they could not have been flying the planes. The film doesn’t produce a “who” hypothesis but presents information that helps in the formulatoin of hypotheses, which must account for the actual facts. If the hypothesis doesn’t accouint for actual facts, then it must be thrown out. Hypothese that try to account for known facts would ave to be intensively investigation, just as a criminal investigation follows up various leads, some of them being dead ends. There is also a possibiltiy that some “facts” are false trails—this might be part of the “legend” created as a cover for the crime. (The disappeared plane in PA might be such a false trail.)

The film also analyzes the Pentagon hit in a lot of detail, and shows some footage that I never saw before, namely, *Rumsfeld* outside at the scene helping carry away a wounded person. WTF???? Why wasn’t Rumsfeld in a secure center directing the response to the emergency? Or, trapped in the building where he works? Or , . . what? I think we know that it was Cheney in the bunker managing the “response.”

Taking all of the evidence together in the film (and I know that there is more detail available in a plethora of videos, but this film I think covers all of teh most important bases in a very clear fashion), I speculate that a group of Saudis were channeled into the USA (there is footage and testimony also on this rubber-stamp visa operation in Jeddah) to be patsies and create the “legend.” Of course they didn’t really do it. The plane that hit the Pentagon was a fighter of some kind. I speculate: The attack was planned far in advance and part of it was put into place at least in June, when the scrambling protocols were changed to only a “slow’ response. THe DOD basically didn’t “pick up the phone” and no fighters were scrambled. One plane disappeared from the radar for 36 minutes. No reaction to that. Where was it? As one interviewee asks: A remote airfield? In other words, there is evidence that the military itself interfered with the normal defensive electronic barricade. Only the military can do that. There are a number of actions that only the military can take. We know of one action (evidence in the film) that the military/Rumsfeld did take: Changing the fighter protocol.

Even many of the “big” players might not have been privy to the real plot. Such as Rumsfeld. Such as Giuliani. Just as the Secret Service guys might not really have known who all was behind the JFK plot when they were instructed to change their protocols in Dallas.

Someone on this blog has asked: Why the complexity? Why go to so much trouble instead of just setting the bombs to bring down the buildings? Good question. So, answering that must be part of the hypothesis. Could this event have been partially a military experiment? Maybe the decision to activate the bombs/demolition was made after the planes hit. For reasons that we again can speculate. Then there is the issue of asbestos in the buildings, and Larry Silverstein’s motive to getting rid of them and recoup insurance rather than pay *big* for asbestos remediation.

Maybe a number of agendas were served in the “attack,” not just one. So, again, a hypothesis whose main point it “who?” still, IMO, has to grow out of evidence, especially where any entities that have the power to do a real investigation are loath to do so. Remember the Valerie Plame case, where Bush didn’t have to testify under oath, and it was private?

A big case of “overdetermination,” where there are multiple reasons/agendas for a single result (sort of like Agatha Christie’s “Murder on the Orient Express”). In this case, however, I think the *means* rests with the US military. We know that there are many dual citizens and dual loyalties throughout the US govt. This brings Mossad into it—possibly their agents actually laying the demolition bombs. These people and possible US partners such as Silverstein plus the CIA would be able to do this without leaving an evidence trail. So far we have a conspiracy involving the CIA (funneling Saudis as “legends” into the country and “handling” them and paying their bills while here); the US military providing the aviation-related “means”; possibly some big players on Wall STreet (recall the SEC docs destroyed in WT7), possibly also Zionist-related (Goldman SAchs? They almost function now as a wing of govt; also in Europe). We still have just three, maybe three and a half entities involved (CIA; US military; Mossad for technical support, possibly liaised with by Silverstein or other Zionist financial entities). Coordinated and probably initiated by Cheney and a few other top neocon bosses. None of them would talk and could well take care of anyone who needs “taking care of.” In particular, genuine CIA and Mossad assets (not the patsies) can never be identified unless someone decides to talk, and that would be the end of that person’s life.

True,but like I said, for me the most important is the “who and why”,more than the “how”. I suspect that the reason so much more attention goes into the “how” is that to expose the “who and why” is far more dangerous.Exposing who and why,could get you killed to silence you. It also is certain to get your career ended. And you thought of as a “traitor” and “enemy” of the country. And most people are terrified of those things. Its “one thing” to claim the government is “hiding something”,its quite another to say XY and Z did the crime.And they did it because of XY and Z.In the US that could literally be a “kiss of death”. Its “Ok” for a few “cranks” to accuse this one or that one of complicity. The regime knows most people will disregard that. But to present “detailed provable evidence” pointing at particular people,is very much a danger for the people presenting that evidence.

UBob:
What you say is pretty much what I said. But your response doesn’t deal with my points.
How can you develop an idea of who did it if you are just guessing?
Why should anyone take such allegations seriously? (Unless you are an insider who has proof to bring forward).
You can speculate all you want but without evidence it is, basically, mental w–king.
Just as, you might guess that it is your evil sister-in-law who did in your niece. But this might also just turn out to be your bias against her. Your bias might turn out to be a giaant red herring or false trail, laid by the person who really did it.

Which is exactly what many are now saying regarding teh arrows pointing toward the Saudis. limited hangout. See Michel Chossudovsky’s latest at Global Research. The Saudis are now everyone’s favorite villain. And those who reallyplanned 911 must be deee lighted! The Saudis must have had something to do wtih it. But they didn’t plan it, pretty sure about that. The evidence does not point toward their having been able to carry it out.

So, your preference to just name a villain without grouinding your suspicions and speculations in a solid basis of evidence and fact doesn’t really bring the Truth Movement any further along, IMO. In fact, it may be counterproductive because empty speculation does not solidify the credibility of the Truth Movement in the eyes of the American public.

I feel vindicated in my thought process regarding the evidence in the Italian documentary, leading me to my conclusion that Cheney is at the heart of the 911 plot.
This piece by Peter Dale Scott can only lead one to infer the same:

@UB1 That’s actually not a bad way to proceed. It seems discussions on 9/11 always devolve into back and forth technical points on how the towers were destroyed. Most of these technical points cannot be easily evaluated by the casual reader, so ultimately the discussions are a huge waste of time and never accomplish anything. Nor do they establish complicity by the US government.

Some questions on who:

Was Osama bin Laden a credible suspect? If not, why not?

Who exactly were the “highjackers”? it’s been pointed out that some of the “highjackers” were alive after 9/11. The explanation given in the official story is that this was simply mistaken identity based on a coincidence of names. An alternative explanation is that the “highjackers” were using stolen identities and may not have even been Muslims.

If you’re trying to trace culpability within the US government for the attacks, I think you’ll find that that will turn into quite a deep rabbit hole.

“[..] Who exactly were the “highjackers”? it’s been pointed out that some of the “highjackers” were alive after 9/11. The explanation given in the official story is that this was simply mistaken identity based on a coincidence of names. An alternative explanation is that the “highjackers” were using stolen identities and may not have even been Muslims.”

Sorry, but for one, I’m not one of those who believe the hijackers weren’t even at the scene, never mind the planes. Nah! These moffos where there, in what capacity? Like I would know!! And no-one will know for certain until we get a truly independent investigation, and trial.

Have you seen their pictures? And don’t tell me they look European! They look as “European” as many these of so-called French/British/German Mohameds, Alis and whatever else, look these days.
If they were “real” Muslims or not is totally irrelevant, they were of a certain ethnic background for sure. They didn’t look Japanese, did they? That’s my point!

But I do tend to agree with the idea that they were patsies, not so much as Oswald being a patsy (or more specifically; a scapegoat), chances are they were more like a willing bunch of useful idiots, in my view.

“Willing” being the operative word here.

No different from ISIS useful idiots and no less guilty and/or less complicit in whatever the crime was they were linked to. And whether they knew all the details of the psy-op about to be carried out or not it’s also totally irrelevant. Black-op assets tend to operate in a strictly need-to-know basis, and they follow instructions blindly.

Point being: It’s highly unlikely these people were framed while being 100% innocent. Plausible deniability ranks extremely high amongst the elites and the plots they concoct against humanity.

This particular bunch of useful idiots were up to their necks in stuff. And you can bet your ass none of that ‘stuff’ was pretty.
Just like Oswald, while he was very likely innocent of being the sole culprit for JFK assassination, he was no saint either… spying on Russia while being a CIA asset double or maybe even triple agent? He was up to his neck on stuff he shouldn’t have involved himself in.

Aaaand that’s why they chose him as a scapegoat. That’s how this ‘people’ usually operate.

At the end of the day, the world better wake-up, and fast, to the fact that the Islamists (whether they’re true/real Muslims or not, I don’t care) and the Elites/globalists are in bed with each other just as much as they’re in bed with closeted Nazis [like the Bandera types in Ukraine] and the not-so-closeted Zionists.
If you miss that crucial point, you will go endlessly around in circles searching for clues that aren’t even there.

–

Oh! But on this, you’re absolutely spot on:

“If you’re trying to trace culpability within the US government for the attacks, I think you’ll find that that will turn into quite a deep rabbit hole.”

The elites protect themselves in layers. Lots of layers, like peeling the layers of an onion to get to the core.

They’re obsessed with many things, but self-preservation was always at the top or near the top of their priorities. Why? Because they know darn well that the populous want them dead. They know they’re the cause of all the evils in the world, much better than the average Joe knows. They know what they’re doing is wrong, and they’re painfully aware that it’s pissing people off. They’re constantly worried that the people will one day wake-up, figure it all out, swarm them [the say; ‘there’s more of us than there is of them’ it’s also true, btw] and give them the Marie-Antoinette treatment.

And this is not just about how they live in fortified enclaves with armed private security (which they do, btw), it’s more about the longer “we” let them be, the more time they have to think of new ways to protect themselves. By now their system of protection (layers) is so complex that you would have to go through a maze of people, arranged in categories (again: layers) just to get to them.

The MSM media is one of the visible outer layers of such protection. That’s why you see them all singing the same tune, and unifying against non-existent buggy men like Putin (or whoever they target).
The MSM are not “bullhorns of propaganda” (Lavelle, I’m looking at you), they are the first barricade between an increasingly angry populous, and the elites that the MSM ultimately serve and protect.

Regular people don’t believe this, they just think we need a name and an address, then go there and burn the mansion to the ground. Job done!

It doesn’t work like that.

This is why it pisses me off to see some alternative media commentators, joking and laughing about how clueless the Hegemon is, how ineffective, how incompetent they are… or my personal favorite; how their USian foreign policy has been a “disaster.”

Ok. Please, define “disaster,” because if you mean those at the receiving end of this cursed USian foreign policy, then yes indeed, they’ll tell you it was a disaster for them.

But it wasn’t a disaster for the elites, the banksters, the globalists, the corporatists (etc) now, was it? On the contrary, they’ve enriched themselves handsomely from each one of these so-called “disasters.”

So, cut it the hell out!

To carry-on and on with that rhetoric it means you actually believe the USian elites are really all about bringing “freedom, yuman-rights and democracy” to the rest of the world, rather than pillaging, death and destruction – for profit.

Seriously, knock it off already!

To me, this weird phenomenon, from people who ought to know better, is just like Americans (or the rest of the so-called free world) having trouble to come to terms with the fact that 9/11 was an inside job. They just don’t wanna believe it, it’s too horrible to contemplate…. so they psychologically shut down to the very notion of it.

But, closing your mind to whatever it is that is frightening you, doesn’t make reality to go away.

I see. So you believe that the men in the photographs claimed by the government to be of the “highjackers” were Muslims because of their appearance. Are you also able to discern that these men were not only Muslims, but were extremist radicals whose religion was a primary motivation for the events? My experience has been that the world is full of people who don’t look European, not all of which are Muslims.

You believe these men were on the planes but doing what you cannot say? They willingly flew airplanes into buildings?

Do you also believe that Osama bin Ladin was the mastermind of the 9/11 attacks?

If you agree to all that it doesn’t seem like you’ve left too much of a role for the CIA/Mossad.

“I see. So you believe that the men in the photographs claimed by the government to be of the “highjackers” [sic] were Muslims because of their appearance [etc, etc…]”

Yeah… yeah. Lovely, very nice…

You and me and whoever else, we can all have our differences of opinion all day long until the cows come home, but like I’ve said previously (and for some reason you chose to skip that part of my post in your answer), until we get a truly independent investigation followed by a court-trail [that for something of this magnitude would have to be a Nuremberg-style type of court-trial], until that happens, no-body has the final word on this case. Which is why I support ‘Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth,’ because that’s precisely their main aim and I don’t know about you, but I do hope they get their goal.

I agree with you. I think the work done on investigating the destruction of the towers by professionals is very important. I do however, find it frustrating that discussions of 9/11 center so exclusively on this point. But if Al Qaeda/Osama bin Ladin remain unchallenged as exclusive suspects I feel it will be difficult to ever have an independent investigation. The fall-back response would be to simply claim that Al Qaeda used explosives to destroy the towers.

Re statement under ‘Acquisition’ above, the WTC buildings are in NY and not DC! Apart from that, I am puzzled that the mainstream media and western church leaders are still sticking to the official story. Church leaders in particular bear a particular guilt responsibility as the tenets of their faith requires them to be truth seekers/tellers and NOT providers, unwittingly or otherwise, of endorsement of implied veracity of stories instead of exposing them as blatant lies.

There are People who wonder what was the reason that President George Bush the second would accept Bribes from Saudi Arabia, given the Fact that his father President George Bush the first told him that there was no good consequences for Iraq if Saddam Hussein was removed from power in Iraq.

It is possible that President George Bush the first who was the Director of the CIA, might Lie over what his he said in order to defend his son, but we Know the Facts.

President George Bush the second was inadvertently Blackmailed to be the Clintons Puppet before he accepted Bribes.

This is because he thought that if had to be the Clintons Puppet, because of being Blackmailed, then he should takes the Much Appreciated Bribes from the Saudi Arabian Funded Clintons.

Saudi Arabia does Not care if they gave the Clintons even a Supertanker of Oil, worth at least one Billion Dollars, because it did not really cost them anything, as they have Much Oil that they received free of charge.

We Know that Hillary Clinton is a Lawyer who Knows the Schemes of Criminals, and she was on the President Nixon Impeachment Committee, and she thought that if she Could what was happening in the Nixon White House and Secretly Record Others in the White House, then she could Blackmail them, and so the Clintons set up concealed listening devices while they were the Co Presidents.

They were Secretly Listening to what President George Bush the second was doing, and they then Blackmailed him to be their Puppet.

There is speculation as to what it was, but we Know the Usual types of reasons.

We Know that President George Bush the second had a female Secretary of State, and that she once inadvertently referred to President George Bush the second as her husband, and perhaps it was because they were playing house in the White House, and that is when he became Resident Puppet in the White House rather than Elected President in the White House, and we Know of Bill Clinton and Monika Lewinsky.

After the Clintons left the White House, they had their Puppet Resident in the White House Resident George Bush who is Euphemistically referred to as President George Bush the second, create Wars for the Saudi Arabians and for the Clintons, and the War Criminal General Wesley Clark Admitted that seven Wars in the Middle East were planned by the Puppet President George Bush the second.

President George Bush the second should have been Principled and Confessed to any indiscretions, but the Clintons did Not allow him to remove those concealed listening devices, and the Clintons have been the Real Presidents or Dictators of America since 1992, and they want to continue to be the Dictators of America.

The Economic Sanctions that were Unnecessarily kept on Iraq by the Saudi Arabian Bribed Clintons killed Many Innocent Civilians, and the Clintons’ Puppet Obama Administration along with the German led Nazi European Union, have Criminally placed Economic Sanctions on Syria, which is a Constitutional Democracy, and unlike America, Syria has a Legitimately Democratically Elected Government which is fighting against Saudi Arabia’s Secret Allies of Al-Qaeda and ISIS, because Syria Cannot match the Bribes of Saudi Arabia, and Economic Sanctions are Genocide and Crimes against Humanity, and Anglo-America and the German led Nazi European Union are the Biggest Violators of this Basic Human Right.

I do Not want People to think that Countries that are not thought of as Democracies do not have Legitimate Governments, because they do, and we Know that Saddam Hussein was Legitimate given Iraq’s situation, and America is in Reality probably Only Slightly more Democratic than a few Countries that do Not have Elections, and this is Primarily because of the Bribed and Corrupt Fifth Columnist Mainstream Media, along with a Corrupt FBI, Corrupt IRS, Corrupt Department of Justice, Corrupt State Department, and Corrupt Electronic Voting, and America is Primarily a Plutocracy.

We can see why Saddam Hussein decided to use his Human Right and the Human Rights of their Iraqi People to Sell their Oil in any Currency that they wanted, and America is the Biggest Violator of this Basic Human Right, but Saudi Arabia used it as an excuse for the Invasion of Iraq.

Countries and their Citizens Also have the Human Right to have their own Central Banks, and America is Also the Biggest Violator of this Basic Human Right.

Saudi Arabia did Not plan the attacks on 11 September 2001, and they thought that America would use their Standard Lie of claiming to have been attacked as they did with the Gulf of Tonkin hoax to begin an Illegal and Immoral War against Vietnam.

However, the Clintons Also wanted a Dictatorship in America, and we have seen that with the FBI and others that have been mentioned.

Saudi Arabia is Not innocent in all of this, but they are did Not think of or plan the 11 September 2001 attacks in New York.

Many American Politicians and Mainstream Media Journalists Know that it was Influential Americans who are Responsible for what happened in America on 11 September 2001.

The Great Lack of accountability in the America Government, along with a lack of Fairness, Justice, and Equity are yet other Proofs that America is Not Democratic, and has No business lecturing other Countries.

We have seen the Reasons for the Illegal and Immoral Wars conducted by America who Commits Genocide and Crimes against Humanity, and the Dictators of America are seeking to create a Dictatorship in America.

The only thing I don’t understand is WHY the perpetrators would have wanted to bring down WTC7 as well, without any plane hitting it in the first place. It makes sense that they would want the twin towers to collapse to heighten the drama (and casualties) of the attacks, but WTC7? The building was supposedly empty, and undermines the official story that the twin towers collapsed due to the burning jet fuel. I cannot think of any motive for bringing WTC7 down.

My speculation – command of the twin towers destruction was run from there. The detonation sequence cannot have been hard wired as the exact amount and position of damage caused by the plane impacts could not have been known in advance, so there needed to be some flexibility built in and potential for human intervention. The three letter security agencies all had offices there as well as the NYC disaster command center. Its destruction effectively obliterated all evidence with the side benefit of destroying the SEC enforcement division and its ongoing investigations of financial malfeasance.

@”My speculation – command of the twin towers destruction was run from there. ”

Yes, brilliant.
That would neutralize the idea that a third plane was planned to run into WT7.
But this makes more sense.
Many birds killed with two stones (planes) here.
Accords well with my hypothesis as outlined above. That decision making was ongoing after the first impacts.
Thinking of Cheney and other neocon bosses, never to forget that Bush Sr. basically set up Cheney to be de facto president for Bush Jr. During and after 9/11, Bush was taking orders from Cheney. Bush’s flying aimlessly around the country is another one of those odd aviation anomalies of 9/11. Perhaps it was to keep in in the dark and out of the loop while the big boys made the decisions. Cheney goes back to the Nixon administration.
Bush Sr. was always CIA, but managed to maintain fairly deep cover even when he was officially named head of the Agency. That is, people don’t think of him primarily as a CIA asset, although that has been one of the most consistent aspects of his CV (See Baker, Family of Secrets). Remember, too, that the CIA, Mossad, the NSC, all of these alphabets can maintain nanosurveillance over anyone they suspect of having “loose lips.” They can “suicide” or “heart-attack” anyone very easily.
Katherine

Regarding who was in contro of things on 911, this article by Thierry Meyssan at the Voltairenet site came out yesterday in French and has been translated to several languages but not yet into English, which is unusual. Anyway, there is info in it that I I was not aware of. Apparently some sepecial plan of “Government Continuity” was activated, even though such plan was meant to be activated only in the case of destruction of the democratic institutions, according to the author. Anyway, the result was that the plan was activated by Richard Clark at 10 am and Bush’s authority was transfered to an “alternative military authority in Mount Weather, which didn’t reinstate Bush’s functions until the end of the day…. the composition of this military authority and the decisions it may have made, remain secret to this day.
Interesting stuff.

The interesting points I noticed in the material Saker has posted, are the lack of building specs for the towers in the public domain, and the occupants and recent renovations of the floors struck by the planes. The building specs are required to determine if it is possible for the impact and fires to cause the initial collapse or not.
This opens the possibility of some form of structural sabotage to ensure the initial collapse took place and possibly some form of guidance beacon for the aircraft to hit the correct floor. All low risk and doable.

From what I can see, only the general the general structural design for the buildings is available to the public. This basic structural design indicates a very fast total collapse after the initial event.

A key point on the truth org calculations for the speed of collapse, is using the full load bearing strength of the supporting columns in the calculations after the initial collapse has occurred. No explanation for this was given.
Apart from howls of religious anger at contradicting something put up here, nobody has been able to give, or even attempted to give, a plausible explanation as to why the the columns have been used in the calculations after the initial collapse.
If there are valid reasons for using the column load bearing strength in the collapse calculations after the initial collapse, I would appreciate it if somebody would put them up here.

Peter:
The engineers of the Towers have been interviewed by many. I am quite sure I have seen clear diagrams of the structure of the Towers. And, even if the towers collapsed on their own, that still does not explain their collapsing in free fall speed and, basically, disappearing in clouds of dust.
There is quite a lot of info here (and plenty of it elsewhere, too):

Also, there is a whole other body of information that must be accommocated by any hypothesis (including yours) that yours does not account for.
No plane at the Pentagon (and 86 videos held by the Pentagon)
Amateur pilots cannot execute such maneuvers as at Pentagon–not even experienced ones can.
Large jets cannot fly at 500 mph at ground level (as opposed to thin air where they attain cruisign speed) And on and on. You are tunnel-visioning on the Towers. There is a lot more to this. Just watch the above film. It is 100 minutes a documentary made by an Italian investigatory team. It will answer a lot of your questions.

Viewed from a distance, the whole stinking garbage heap that is 9/11, has “Made in the USA” stamped all over it. Disinformation from all sides. The few times in the past that I have tried to do a bit of research out of casual interest, every search term is simply swamped with every theory imaginable.
The Pentagon, WTC 7 all has made in the USA stamped on it and I don’t bother scrummaging in the garbage heap of disinformation.

Because Saker put this information up – that the collapse speed was proof of controlled demolition, I looked into it and found the same disinformation that is swamping the internet.

Regarding the maximum speed of an aircraft at sea level (I think that is altitudes under 3000ft). The aircraft designers and test pilots will know what this is. If you can find the safety margin that is used (ie 25%?, 40%?) to determine maximum speed for commercial passenger use, then maximum speed for that aircraft could be calculated. Aircraft maintenance, fatigue cycles under increased load ect would also play a part in determining maximum speed for commercial use.

Peter: This information (maximum speed) is freely available.
It is not a question of the construction of the plane but of the resistance of air at ground level.
I do feel that you questions are kind of trollish, in that you are continually challenging others on this blog, most of whom are not scientists but have viewed plenty of information provided by scientists and engineers, to “prove” to you what you don’t get. Yet you seem to avoid sources of solid evidence produced through the xperimental method or based on physics that have convinced thousands and millions of other skeptics.

Thus, it seems that a lot of attnetion and energy is being drawn into the black hole of your questions, whifh don’t seem to advance in their knowledge base of level of sophistication. Just reducing all data and informatin to the level of “disinformation” doesn’t really cut it, IMO, and betrays and “don’t confuse me with facts or expect me to proactively weigh different sources of info” frame of mind.

Personally, I am n ot that impressed with the whatreallyhappened site, but that is my view. It seems to me that there are other more accessible sources of info, videos, comparisions, interviews with various experts, etc. Many people on this thread have provided good links.

Your style kind of reminds me of the first time a male was allowed to visit our women’s group (back in the seventies). The male ended up dominating the discussion and attention, and all the women were trying to get him to see their point of view on various topics. Eventually we decided that we had been right the first time around: the “innocent” man was distracting everyone and dissipating energy needed for actual productive discussion.

“I am quite sure I have seen clear diagrams of the structure of the Towers”
(I forgot to address this in the last reply.)

The “structure diagrams” give the basic structural design and for the towers are undisputed by all parties.
The specs which I refer to are the specifications actually required to build the building. They involve detailed drawings of all components and connections. Material grade, dimensions, profile ect for any given section. Weld sizes, bolt sizes. Mathematical analysis of load, fatigue cycles ect.
These would be held by any authority that approves the plans, also by the buildings owners, also by the original design engineers.
It is these specifications that are required to assess with any degree of accuracy if the impact and fire could have caused the initial collapse.
Because the supporting columns change as they go up, always designed to carry the weight above them plus safety margin, to obtain the exact specs for the columns at the levels of the plane strikes, the detailed specifications are required.

I see Truth org has obtained some documents through FIA, but they do not have the building specs. For some reason, 15 years later, those specifications are still not available to the public.

Re, Peter:
“The specs which I refer to are the specifications actually required to build the building. They involve detailed drawings of all components and connections. Material grade, dimensions, profile ect for any given section. Weld sizes, bolt sizes. Mathematical analysis of load, fatigue cycles ect.”

Once again I am reminded of people who put questions to a list and want others to do their research for them and provide them some answers.

I am not going to provide links because there are just too many.

Do a Google search for “Are original WTC construction plans available?”
You will get many, many hits that include all original drawings.

If you think that a bolt was put on wrong, or it was the wrong size, or that the builders didn’t know how to weld, and that this brought down three buildings at free fall speed, then I have a bridge to sell you for you to lurk under and challenge the Three Billy Goats Gruff.

states that the reason for the lack of rubble is the balloon construction idea of the buildings. To me, even if this is true, it still doesn’t explain what happened to everything in the buildings. Such as ceramic toilets, file cabinets, stoves, fridges, etc. It also doesn’t explain free fall. It also doesn’t explain Building 7. It doesn’t explain no glass shards from all the windows.
It doesn’t explain where the building materials and their contents went, nor the explosions that hundreds of people heard before the collapse.

Despite all the critical analysis and peer-reviewed scholarship debunking the official American version of the 9-11 attacks, there has been no groud-breaking mass protests, civil disobedience, or of course armed rebellion in the USA–despite the 9-11 Truth Movement.

This is because of an issue that most American apologists–both mainstream or alternative–simply don’t want to confront:

Americans have a fundamentalist belief that their nation is a “Force for Good”(tm) in the world and that the USA would not stage a terror attack like 9-11 on itself.

This is the basis of American national identity from Main Street, USA to the White House.

In reality, America is a force for evil disguised as the good–and 9-11 is nothing compared to the terrorism that the USA has inflicted on the world for centuries under the guise of freedom, democracy, or other bloodstained “American values.”

Very true. Pindo Exceptionalism is just militant parasitism. On this basis, a mortal attack on the very HQ buildings of the financial and armed wings of Western (Pindo) imperialism is most definitely nothing to celebrate, mind you.

An attack on imperialism — regardless of the perpetrators and of their purpose — is “to spit in the soul” of the Pindo.

What many Americans and other people around the world do not understand is that the US is a state founded on occupation, settlers, genocide, blood, crimes and ethnic cleansing……

The USA has no right to exist as much as Israel has no right to exist………Both of these states foundations are based on death, destruction and genocide.

White people came from their origins of Europe to a new continent and killed everyone on it and took it as their own…

Since the US is based on genocide, wars, crimes and occupation and has no right to exist in the first place……thus, all talk about freedom, liberty and justice is a lie and a deception from the inception of the US as a state until this day.

So by default, they will only worship themselves and feel that “fundamentally” they are the chosen people on Earth (like the Zionist by the way)….

In my opinion, 9/11 was the beginning of yet another manufactured World War. For the Third time.

Now that nukes are in abundance, it makes sense (if you’re a psychopath) to declare a war on an invisible enemy; an abstraction. You can make up these terrorist groups forever. It’s grrrreat. If you’re a psychopath.

In the early fifties there was truther movement about the artificial Cold War slowly taking of with the Korean War. as fake and geopolitically ‘necessary’ as GWOT.

Not many pple know that.
Granted, it was almost impossible to reach a large public on your own but pple were more thoughtfull and independent then whereas now…well mass pop-culture/ is continually assaulting them, aspiring to become the very continuum in which everybody is born, lives, thinks and ultimately dies.
The remembrance of God heals the heart and drives them out!!!!!!

How many take the trouble to educate their kids that the ‘history’ they are thaught in school is a bunch of lies?

This is a generational struggle and the enemy has been scheming for some time.

Final Victory will be with those that side with God Almighty, all Praise be to Him

Actually, no, Christian religious extremism is the source of America’s woes, not the solution.

The secular humanist movement did more to advance the Deist/Enlightenement foundations of America than the Christian extremists who from day one in North America schemed to forge empire and Second Coming upon the corpse of the Red Peoples’ Turtle Island.

The colonists did so as the corporate debt slaves of that A-Z era. Its not emphasized as much, but the early colonists included large numbers of English religious malcontents who, after the defeat of Cromwell, needed somewhere to run.

The extremist Christian Armageddon Lobby are the primary populist opponents to peace. The pathological need to end their own mental anguish by ending thing for everyone drives ‘End Times’ sentiment and the constant drive for social collapse and war at home and abroad.

The only comparable movement to describe this phenomenon are griefers in video game culture, who go out of their way to spoil the fun in online communities. They seem to share a reveling in the imperfection of humankind and making it the dominant culture.

The heirs to the Pilgrims, the Evangelical Christian Right, retains links to modern Anglo-Zionism that are a matter of record.

I was introduced to the 911 truth research (in particular the architects & engineers work) 4-5 years ago by an engineer friend. My buddy was absolutely kicking himself for not having figured it out himself, you know how engineers can be: “why didn’t I see it myself?” he was saying with absolute frustration.

It is difficult to see what is out there if no one else sees it. However, when they point it out to you, you have to make a choice: listen to your senses and logic, or to the narrative (blue pill, red pisll sort of thing).

And I think it is persistent failures like those, that expose people like Noam Chomsky to be controlled opposition. Surely, a genius like that, with a reputation of relentless research in all sorts of issues, and with hundreds of engineer MIT colleagues would finally come to understand the law of gravity.

Speaking of controlled opposition, there soon will be a major movie coming about the American CIA asset … I mean NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden.

It seems that there is quite a buzz being generated by the American media machine about this film with some touting it as the movie of the year.

However, it does beg the question if Snowden is just a such whistleblower, why hasn’t he exposed the American state terrorist act called 9-11, particularly given his access to supposed highly classified NSA intelligence.

You would also think that someone like Snowden, who is an opponent of the surveillance state, would fundamentally question 9-11 itself, given that this event was a major pretext of the creation of a variety of American “national security” laws and institutions that have increasingly destroyed civil liberties and privacy in the self-styled Leader of the Free World.

Better still, how is it possible that Snowden’s family is able to visit him in Moscow and he can give TV interviews from there, but American spies have not tried to kill or kidnap this supposed “enemy of the state”?

Re Edward Snowden.
Movie : Groaoaoaoaoaonnnnn!
But of course, Hollywood has always been complicit in shaping views of the present and of history.
But ES doesn’t have to go along with this film.

Re ES and 911: I too have wondered whether he saw anything in the files re 911.
Maybe there isn’t that much in them?
It would be predictable that these plotters would not put anything down in a form that is traceable. Like, they might have had their own private communcation channels that they were able to shielf from the NSA. Or done their plotting in person . . .?
And, he is young. Maybe young enough not to be obsessed with 911 as are those who experienced it and the aftermath as adults.
Just a speculation.
Katherine

Regarding the wiring, there has been information going back many years to the effect that those towers were wired for demolition at the time of construction, due to some requirements in force at the time of construction (early 70s) for buildings above a certain height, like the WTC towers and the Sears tower This info first appeard on rense way back when but was erased.

There is a certain “Howard T. Lewis III” who has written many comments online about this topic, apparently a well informed person. He insists he knows the Sears tower was also wired that way. Many of his comments have disappeared in the relentless erasure of information, but many still remain. Jim Fetzer interviewed him back in 2013. The podcast is here (it starts after about 1 min of music) http://radiofetzer.blogspot.ca/2013/09/howard-lewis-iii.html

today 13 Sept, uk’s ITV running a new programme re 9/11 2100-2200 ie now
truths lies conspiracies
eg accusations CIA not tell FBI of two al-quaeda terrorists they were following had come to USA then lost them, are not revealing documents or that would destroy themselves…agressive deception..it could have been prevented,.etc etc….seems ok

People can quibble about aspects of how the towers came down: Classic controlled demolitions, directed energy weapons, mini-nukes in basements.

The full truth may be all three. 9/11 was likely long in the planning, to trial some exotic black op weaponry could well be applied to the agenda.

It is known that classified ops and thus also false flag events tend to use multiple modalities to maintain secrecy and confuse/divide “conspiracy theorists” who can then be subjected to ad hominem attacks for their division.

What is crystal clear is that the official conspiracy theory is absurd. It treats us the masses at the level of the junior primary children being read “My Pet Goat” by GWB as the attacks of 9/11 were unfolding.

James Corbett sums up the absurdity of the official conspiracy theory. That is often a good place to start with those friends and acquaintances of ours who – like we once were also – are still on the “blue pill” and liable to believe GWB’s “pet goat” theory.

Truth, Lies and Conspiracy program
9/11 Pilots training…Several times it was questioned as to were the pilots trained. At that time i lived in Oxford UK and Kidlington Oxford flight school consistently trained Saudi and Iraqi pilots. Not stereotyping but just saying. Kidlington is out of the way and off rada but would be known to Saudis as Brize Norton American air base was few miles away.

9/11 Pilots training…Several times it was questioned as to were the pilots trained. At that time i lived in Oxford UK and Kidlington Oxford flight school consistently trained Saudi and Iraqi pilots. Not stereotyping but just saying. Kidlington is out of the way and off rada but would be known to Saudis as Brize Norton American air base was few miles away.

I say again– not possible for an airplane to cut through and enter a concrete & structural steel building. Imagine an old car, when they were still made of metal. Do you think that if one were catapulted against a building that it could penetrate it? It could enter a clapboard house, but not a concrete & steel building. The nose might penetrate, but the wings wd fall off; they are RIVETED on. Find images of planes that have impacted guard rails or almost any hard object. Planes are fragile.

Besides that, in the cartoon image we are given the plane does not slow down; it encounters the building and is not even inhibited.

You might as well expect a thrown tin can to pass through a brick wall.

Anyone aware of what a controlled demoliton looked like, and who saw on TV the collapse of the North Tower (WTC1) — and there were many who saw it — would (or should) have known immediately that this was some kind of controlled demolition (see Message concerning the WTC Attack). Had they then examined as much video and photographic evidence as they could find, and participated in several mailing list discussions in 2001-2005 of what happened, read as much as they could find on the internet and thought deeply about it, and continued this for more than ten years, they might have produced not only something like The World Trade Center Demolition but also have published articles by many other careful investigators (see Related Documents) — hoping vainly to inform others — and might finally have arrived at their best guess, along the lines that the plan for the destruction of the Twin Towers was hatched in the 1990s by leaders of the CIA, Pentagon and Mossad, was financed by the Saudis, and was carried out by a team of Israeli operatives who arrived in August 2001, installed state-of-the-art thermonuclear devices in the basements of the Twin Towers, and detonated them from the command center in WTC7 — thereby vaporizing the supporting steel columns, most of the concrete and nearly 3000 people (who were “collatoral damage” in the eyes of the perpetrators).

The official explanation for building 7 (and the two) is total nonsense -that’s understood. Taking the stratospheric view the event was necessary to incubate the invasion wars of the Middle East to reach the eventual goal of world hegemony. But how was it done?

Even if damage from the other 2 buildings did travel over to building 7 and fire ensued and it did weaken the steel sufficiently then there would not be the symmetrical collapse of all areas with a slightly greater initial drop in the centre. It is also obvious from watching the video of WT7 that the lower floors start collapsing at the same time as the upper ones and the dark top roof structure disappears first. This is all indicative of the centre of the building getting hollowed out and dropping down. If it was punching shear then the upper floors would collapse first while lower ones would wait their turn until the force of the upper floors reached them. But they don’t -they drop right away and on the outside as well as inside.

Here’s my question:
Unless the demolition was in plain sight i.e. the structural steel etc. had the chemical make up to collapse somehow with some sort of trigger, how would you go about a controlled demolition set-up?

The logistics of pre-weakening the building and installing explosive charges would be overwhelmingly difficult to effect unnoticed by those who worked there at all hours -e.g. cleaners, building maintenance, night owls etc.etc.

While people is entertaining reading and trying to understand endless technical reports about physical paths of collapse of buildings is not fixed on the results / consequences of all this for its daily life, the loss of the Rule of Law / Democracy and 15 years of costly wars, at all levels (and more to come).
I find it very interesting and really a MUST READ the following analysis / summary, especially for the US population:

I think we are winning important battles and can win the war to stop the Empire from enslaving the entire planet.

I wish to acknowledge the many commenters to this post by Saker, and the many authors and video producers they have linked us to.

Why do I think we are winning??? Not because 911 has been dissected in every single detail, but because the enemy of humanity mucked it up, opposition is growing and getting smarter, and they are mucking it up further, considering 911 not as a “single issue” (an absurd stance….) but as an important part of the physical/spiritual topography of a global strategic battle for the Mind of Man. Or what’s left of it, at this late date.

What I need to work on next is Russian Orthodoxy,as Saker indicates that it has something to do with Russia standing in the way of these slime balls a few times over more than a few centuries.

That list of recommended reading I was unable to copy down before I lost track of it. I want to put that at the top of my reading list, to appreciate more deeply why and how Russia seems to be giving us some time to get our act together and put our occultocracy out of business.

Although despair and frustration at the weak and gutless and mind-controlIed is still palpable and understandable, I would de-emphasize that angst and look on the bright side: While the majority may be more gutless, clueless and mind-controlled than ever, never before in history have so many of the “few” been as sharp as they are today.

I haven’t read every link but I did watch the second movie posted by Saker and was somewhat surprised by the amount of jarring information that did make it onto the boob tube in the USA which I haven’t turned on in my house, for years. And I read 147-150 comments before starting on my own.

Why? Because I take into consideration every comment I can ever remember a person making, before I’ll use a word like “troll”.

Here’s a guy grounding himself in some sort of engineering fixation (his profession or training??) but over his head, IMHO because all of us may be if some sort of new physical principles were pulled out of the weapons labs for this mega stunt.

He is on firmer ground, IMHO speculating on the presence of other intelligence superior to human intelligence, than he is in this blockhead engineer behavior, scientism, left brain imbalance which has irritated a fair number of other commenters on this 5-7 day old thread.

Why? Because the guy months ago, who said something in response to Peter AU to the effect that “There is no one but us earthlings.”, does NOT know that. He was just betting on what is safer from ridicule. And feeling smug about being in a safe majority of others who feel that same way but do not know .

What I remember is seeing the largest building stone on earth at age 7

and reflecting on the simple fact that no one at that time or since has ever provided a reasonable explanation that I have ever heard as to how it got there.

In private company, a Syrian American smirked and said, “Jews with wheels? I don’t think so.” But that’s in private company. Peter AU has the guts to go a little further. Maybe into a little right brain imbalance if he resorts to hopes that same intelligence will save our rear ends. Why, if they exist today, would they want to adopt 7 billion beings with the average consciousness of screwed up, psychotic teenagers, and take on that thankless responsibility?

Medvedev may comment on such things, but I think the byword “Don’t expect disclosure!” applies just as much to the possibility of higher beings in the neighborhood as it does to honest disclosure on 911 from anyone in the Empire hierarchy.

So, I wanted to get that out of the way, in defense of our friend down under. Down under the planet earth, not lurking under a vineyard bridge, IMHO.

Now, the left brain analytical capacities, the Sacred Masculine exhibited in such abundance by so many here I would never be so vain as to attempt to improve upon, the ladies’ excellent clear headed points in that area, included. They cover the material world (earth, fire, air, water) better than I ever hope to. I’ve read 4 books on 911, including Tarpley’s, Naffez Ahmed’s and articles and book by Christopher Bollyn and want to get to Judy Woods. Even though, years ago, the pro and con vitriol made me hesitate, I have some unfinished issues in regard to SDI, Tesla, Tonguska and related matters that are nagging at my mind.

But there again, even if I digest that work and conclude it has value in completing the 911 picture, that is just “fire”. And what reigns over earth, water, air and fire is SPIRIT.

That’s where the “rubber meets the road”, IMHO, and where the analysis is most incomplete, and where filling that void would advance the cause of victory of good over evil with the greatest efficiency.

The key to the failure of the whole satanic ritual of 911 is WTC building 7 and Flight 93 and I am more sure of that than anything else I have ever mulled over in the realm of politics and history.

Because I “believe in numerology”????

How asinine! Can you comprehend that my beliefs and your beliefs in that regard are irrelevant, and what counts is the perpetrators beliefs, which they have gone to great trouble to manifest, in broad daylight, for any one slightly informed on their dark occult “religion”?

That dear friends is the big hole in all of the left brain analysis on the subject here.

I’m just a guy with enough of a diverse and eclectic background to snap awake on this spiritual plane when it seems to sail right past nearly everyone else, except a handful of people I have presented the evidence to, in person. And at least 50% of them actually got it!

Folks, building 7, the reason 93 is in my “handle” until a few others here finally get it and this FACT that was so important to the occultocracy, the High Priests of Empire that concocted this evil piece of garbage. Do I need to explain the meaning of 93 (TO THEM), again?????

Do you think there is any chance the other “Manhattan destination” flights 11 + 175 divided by 2, = 93, across the board is accidental ???? Sorry, I don’t! .

Here ya go: Passio breaks it down for you, and get over your aversion to Kabbalah, Tarot and all that other ancient stuff I had no idea about until I snapped awake at the impossibility of 11 + 175 + 186 divided by 2 = 93 being an accident. But I learned fast. So can you. So pick up the pace:

That’s the 8 minute version, that I should hope a couple of you can get through. And then digest the hours long segments that that short portion was taken from. 8 hours or 5 hours. Take your pick.

Then let us compare notes and see if spirit is not where the rubber truly meets the road and exposes the very, very dirty spiritual underwear, aye , the foul skivvies of the enemy high priests that concocted 911, and provides the best shot at arousing mass consciousness to awaken and crush these “spiritual” swine that loath creation and the creator, and have an uncanny ability to drive the consciousness of the human race almost as low as their own consciousness, while they pretend to be God, themselves.

A medium length option, because , I assure you the little I have gone over is the tip of the iceberg:

I detect you displaying an incredible effort, despite all the job you have in removals and carpentry, in slide people into an endless journey to esotericism. Well, this could be fine for you as a passtime during all these past years, having your finances secured by having taken advantage of the real state bubble ( as you yourself told us ), but now, when the trascendence of the opponents system is accelerating in such a grade, and common people, with no aim of achieve anything that does not belong to them or they have not earned with their sweat, are impoverishing in progressive acceleration ( the same grade of acceleration the “capitalist” system is falling down ), I think a waste of time spending several years ( 8 years it took for The Saker in his own words….) in trying to understand the supposed “occult significance” of a project whose aim is to bring us to the middle ages to a new/old world of “monarchs”, “boyars” and “serfs”.

Just hear what Mr. Dugin has to say about it. This guy, obviously, does not see himself as a “serf” in the NWO, nor any of those who claim and work for the same outcome, some of them in different media but, most probably, financed by the same “boyar”, Mr. Malofeev….

This guy, as some Anonymous here from time to time, intentionally mix up Bolshevik and French Revolution, Scientific Progress and Thinking with Masonry/FreeMasonry, when they are, who in close alliance with Masonry, the responsibles of all the decay of humanity. Only take into account that Masonry always have been in close alliance with Monarchy to exploit the masses since before the Templars, who liked more money/gold than eating with their fingers. So the discourse of these guys putting Masonry in the ranks of the proletariat and the proletarian revolutions throughout History falls under its own weight. Only take into account one detail, that most Russian aristocrats in the Russian Diaspora who have fought against the Russian people and their will are and have been Masons. And all those gory rituals about which Bro93 seems so aware and well informed are Masons. That this people promote religion is only a cover and they do it as “opium for the people”, because they, you can easliy test, do not preach with their example, theirs is simply that old act of “praying to God and hitting with the hammer”.

Do not fool yourselves, comrades, and think about it.

None of these guys see themselves as forming part of the “serfs” if no, they do not work so hard for bringing again the “old world” coming back.

So, I recommend to fix attention in the results of all these manouvers, those achieved and those still to achieve, and then to react. Use numbers to take accounts of how many we, workers/proletarians, have lost since the falling of the USSR and how many we have earned. My balance is negative, and so, I will act in consecuence.

Anyone would want to return to a world of castes and servants, to be servants, where the least attempt to protest would be drowned to the shots or being locked in isolation in dark and dank dungeons underground till lose his mind or kill himself ?

Fatima, “Know thine enemy!” more precisely, spiritually is the point of my comment.

I am certain that my enemy is not Putin, not Assad, not Saker, not Martin SEB, not you, not Elsi, not Kim, or anyone else that doesn’t exactly “appreciate ME” here.

Detest me, for all I care, but learn the religion of the COMMON enemy of humanity, because it is rife with FEAR & SELF LOATHING, and Dennis will tell you if you are unable to love the larger self that your personal self is connected to, you cannot love anything or anyone.

So, you say the Vineyard owner’s Orthodox Christian faith is BS??? Sorry, I can’t judge that along with you and Martin, because, although my sons were baptized into it, and I am impressed that a man like Israel Shamir converted from Judaism to it, I don’t yet have any idea what it really is, from gazing at some icons in Russia a few times.

SO, that’s next on my list, if someone can shorten my study time by recommending some
reading!

Why divide by two? Because you have 2 towers to apportion 186 to, and if you do that evenly,you are burning, immolating, raping, destroying True Care, and rendering your victims defenseless, loveless, fearful slaves. Elementary arithmetic!

My point is understanding this spiritual ugliness more rigorously is an important step to terminating the power differential these dark masons “enjoy” over their vcitims and intended slaves, which includes me and my family!

But if you wish to discard enemy code so clearly decoded by Passio in 8 minutes, and have no time for anything that does not fit your preconceived ideological weaponry, someone else will be required to drive an ice pick through the thick NWO armor of its dark priesthood controllers.

Shudder in horror and refuse to look? You are not alone. Many can’t look, and can devise no ice pick to nail these sickos with. Pity, because that’s what the situation calls for.

The videos are good, but I am not sure … The occultism of 9/11 could be just for public consumption — to draw away attention from the fact that the whole event was a hoax, as “September Clues” argues so convincingly …

Well, all of us have the luxury of not deciding almost every issue in the next 30 seconds, and leaving some things open, and in suspension pending further evidence, thinking, dialogue, etc.

Haste makes waste, and almost invariably that comes in the form of errors of judgment.

Haste is a habit that should be broken, and only adhered to by the R-complex of the brain (which must react, or the organism may die or suffer injury) and not by the higher faculties. Unfortunately, haste is often successfully fostered in furtherance of mind control of some humans over other humans.

About how the Trilithons of Baalbeck were translocated, in the little and charming but excellent museum at the exit of the site, there are some graphics with possible explanations so we have not to resort to ET creatures or somewhat occult to explain everything we can not understand.
Obviously, we can not know everything in all sciences, but I advise to search/research in science and try to find a rational explanation before start looking at the skies. Sometimes explanation is more simple than we thought.

Thanks, Mahmood. I’ll review what you have offered on the Biggest Rock when settled in back home in a day or two, and have the time to see the videos or read the links.

Though on that score, I have seen some actually laughably stupid “debunkers” (one on James Corbett, recently) that take some of the most ridiculous things from fanciful players on the naive imagination to attack, but won’t go near the tougher, more intelligent investigations that beg for a more serious analysis, that is often not to be found without considerable preserverence, courage, and thick skin immune to ridicule from people who clearly do not know, either.

If yours fits the latter more intelligent category, I will acknowledge it soon. And I hope it is not of the character of that debunker on Corbett, who was pretty worthless, IMHO.

Man, honestly, I have no idea what the hell are you talking about that James Corbett…I am lost…

I only saw you asserting that since you were 7 (! ) have never known about any explanation on how those trilithons arrived there and, since I know the site and also saw those graphics in the museum, decided to add some other theories to consideration, not only for you, but for the readers here who could find interesting. Some most probably have never known even about Baalbeck´s existence.

Do not expect me for IQ or unchallenged theories contests, that’s not my fight.

It is extremely pixellated -square flame explosions, the sound is immediate with no delay for sound travel and the number of explosions don’t match the sound. Controlled demolition is placed internally on support columns and not at individual windows.
I’d say it is likely a fake overlay to discredit any alternative to the official analysis.

Never heard of the 9/11 Truth Movement til’ today October 2, 2016, yet I have know everything in this report since it was first published late 2006, early 2007 as someone sent me the final results of the three exhaustive, competing, double-blind, tests done on the expelled thermite dust.

Since 9/11, known by the administrations one year before it happened, and approved to fully allow,
it in order to claim a world war where by all normal US law could be suspended in order to eliminate all normal laws in later administrations after NATO increased memberships could then ramp up war claims of US done terror attacks as from Islam abroad and at home as the erasure of total Islam planned by the Saudi Wahabbi terrorist poisonous Islam would, could supply fighters across Africa and Middle East.

Yes. And ‘inquiries’ like MH17 and the CIA/WADA assault on Russian Olympic athletes further establish that not only the law of causality but reality itself has now been suspended by decree of ‘The West’.

Analysis of the videos shows that they are faked – there were no planes. There is no way to get around this fact.

The only way to ensure total control of the outcome of this staged event – no planes, no victims. The towers were empty. Of course the Pentagon was not struck by anything. People say this was an “Israeli plot” no, this was an American endeavor for the benefit of the Zionists who control the USA, like everything else they do.

The folks that planned this false flag event could not afford to let anything go wrong that day. 9/11 was painstakingly prepared over a long period of time. The WTC complex was demolished with conventional explosives, and the world was shown some computer-generated videos with fake planes on TV. The 3,000 so-called victims are all fakes, which is a hallmark of all false flag events – fake crying relatives, no real outrage, lots of fake photos, all loose ends tied up.

The “9/11 Truth movement” is controlled opposition (including the Loose Change nonsense). It was built into the plot – after all, what is the deal with WTC7? Focus on that – forget about the anomalies in the video footage. They will talk about anything, except media fakery. The WTC7 video was produced prior to the event on 9/11 – it was made to look exactly like that on purpose. These are not real videos of collapsing towers. The issue of media fakery is of paramount importance to us today – and it is the one thing that the establishment cronies want to keep us from understanding. They even got people to believe in Judy Wood’s nonsense, as a distraction. Now 15 years later, very few people know what actually happened.

I understand this may seem improbable to some of you reading this – yet truth is stranger than fiction. Please take some time to watch/read the materials at the site below –

Where the 911 truth movement is now after 15 years is still repeating the same inaccurate distortions of the facts that it was founded on. It was started by the people who made ‘Loose Change’ and ‘In plane sight’ and dozens of other videos and hundreds and hundreds of blogs, articles and books and presentations presenting this distorted , inaccurate and incomplete version of the facts. It managed then to influence engineers and academics who started to produce scientific explanations to reach unscientific conclusions. Of course anyone pointing how deluded the whole thing is would be accused of trying to hide the truth- more evidence that their theories were correct.

It sounds like you prefer the OCT (Official Conspiracy Theory) proposed by CIANN.
Is that intellectual laziness or fear-fased?
I note that you have proposed no alternatives, but merely did a scatter-gun blast against independent thought and investigation.

The theory of 911 I prefer is the one that makes sense. I have seen all the alternative theories and none of them are more plausible or credible than the one of a terrorist attack. Unfortunately the 911 truth movement was founded on the the idea that they had to believe in some alternative theory, any theory but the ‘official conspiracy theory’ as you have just said there.
Practically all of the thought and investigation conducted by people in the 911 truth movement is not independent at all, but the slavish following of illogical speculative nonsense and distortion of evidence handed to them by people like David Ray Griffin and co.

I would like to ask posters who claim that “the terrorists did it. It wasn’t controlled demolition” to please state
[a] their qualifications in the fields of engineering and architecture,
[b] their past experience in examining Tall Tower collapse world wide
[c] their qualifications in demolition, in nano-particle identification and research and
[d] their investigations of immediate post collapse activities of all those involved, including the depositions of first responders.

Since we have all this from those who assert with confidence that it WAS a series of controlled demolitions, both their qualifications from B.Sc. to PhD, plus all their scientific data, I would ask that “deniers” also supply the SCIENTIFIC reasons for publicly refuting the demolitions theory.

Otherwise, I have to say, you come across as know nothing armchair theorists easily bamboozled by government brainwashing. Which, of course, I am sure you are not.

Oh – I saw the second one hit as it was hit. I saw it fall. And from post WWII demolitions of bombed out buildings that my Father took me to see, the first thing I said – After Holy Jesus Christ – was “that was controlled demo. That was no upper story fire”. I spotted in within about 2 mins.

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