Maybe there should be a separate thread where Geo can defend his views. I don't think that's singling him out -- I think he would like it (because he's made similar threads before). He usually doesn't shy away from answering anything so long as he isn't attacked, and I have a few legitimate questions.

1. If in fact the Illuminati controls everything -- and the Illuminati is made up of both Democrats and Republicans alike -- then why do politicians spend millions of dollars campaigning against each other if they already know who's going to win anyway?

2. And similarly, why bother endorsing Ron Paul if it's already been decided who will win the election? Is RP, a Republican, part of the exclusive club? He's a pretty influential politician after all.

3. Why does voting (or libertarianism) even matter if our minds are manipulated by the alien people anyway? And how do you know that they are not manipulating your mind right now to believe what you do?

4. What did the Buddha say about the lizards? Are his views compatible?

5. David Icke argues that humanity was created by a network of secret societies run by an ancient race of interbreeding bloodlines from the Middle East, originally extraterrestrial. He says The Brotherhood as descendents of reptilians from the constellation Draco, who walk on two legs and appear human, and who live in tunnels and caverns inside the earth. He argues that the reptilians are the race of gods. How does evolution fit into this picture? Also can you link me to the evidence of life on this constellation? As far as I know, it's not yet possible for astronomers to determine if there is life on other STARS which are way too far away... But I guess all the scientists in the world are lying. Or manipulated. But I'll let you answer before attacking this.

6. Icke writes that the Anunnaki have crossbred with human beings, the breeding lines chosen for political reasons, arguing that they are the Watchers, the fallen angels, or "Grigori," who mated with human women in the Biblical apocrypha. Their first reptilian-human hybrid was possibly Adam. If this somehow gives the Bible legitimacy, isn't it possible Jesus was a special enlightened reptile who in fact COULD rise from the dead? Why or why not?

7. For Icke, the widespread ridiculing of the lizard theory is a guarantee that there's something to it. Do you think this is true of all conspiracy theories considering almost all of them provide some "evidence" for their claims? Most of all I'm wondering why we should believe any of the scholars if they too are in fact being mind controlled... or are THEY just the special ones who can rise above it?

8. What does Icke/the others suggest we do about all this? It seems to me that there is not much difference between some of his beliefs and people with schizophrenia... and that's really scary. How do you sleep at night?

9. Can you please post the sources (proof) for me one more time about people who have SEEN the lizard people? You know - those angelfire websites where anonymous people swear up and down that they've seen them? Also why are their testimonials anymore credible than the people who have claimed to see Jesus float off into the sky like a helium balloon?

10. Finally - and I pose this question to many theists, and I think you do too - What would it take for you to abandon these beliefs that you've come to accept? A major criticism I have about DDOians (including myself, at least the old me) is that we're hell-bent on defending our views rather than be open to challenging them. I think it's interesting that you seem to think everyone else is wrong - brilliant physicists and astronomers and philosophers and chemists and biologists and historians who can all dismantle your ideas... But I guess it's easy to discredit them when you say everyone else is just unenlightened. You know kinda like Scientologists.

Thank you in advance for your time. I'm genuinely curious so I sincerely appreciate it.

At 5/16/2012 11:29:11 AM, Danielle wrote:Maybe there should be a separate thread where Geo can defend his views. I don't think that's singling him out -- I think he would like it (because he's made similar threads before). He usually doesn't shy away from answering anything so long as he isn't attacked, and I have a few legitimate questions.

What I love about conspiracy theories in general is the fact that these organizations are so powerful that they can perform the actions described by the theories, but, apparently, aren't powerful enough to keep it a secret.

At 5/16/2012 12:38:53 PM, drafterman wrote:What I love about conspiracy theories in general is the fact that these organizations are so powerful that they can perform the actions described by the theories, but, apparently, aren't powerful enough to keep it a secret.

First of all their power is limited. Most major conspiracy theorists believe they can defeat the globalists. As Tsarion said, evil contains within itself the seeds of it's own destruction, even Alex Jones has said that they are so arrogant and full of themselves that they get careless and do self-destructive things. He cites Hitler as an example as well as the ancient empires that crumbled and no longer exist.

Also, your argument that if theyre so powerful no secret should get out is utterly ridiculous. They have monetary power, some degree of psychological power and subtle mind manipulation abilities, political power, etc. but that doesn't mean they have the power to control the sound waves that travel through the air and can stop secrets from entering people's ear lobe.

Another point, it's not even secret. It's hidden in plain sight. The Illuminati stamped their freakin logo on the dollar bill for Gods sake. As Alex Jones said "this isn't 2 + 2 = 4, this is 1 + 1 = 2."

At 5/16/2012 12:38:53 PM, drafterman wrote:What I love about conspiracy theories in general is the fact that these organizations are so powerful that they can perform the actions described by the theories, but, apparently, aren't powerful enough to keep it a secret.:

Oh, they have a convenient answer *ahem* strawman for that... Hidden in plain sight.

At 5/16/2012 1:23:42 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:Well I don't buy most of Geo's odd beliefs but I can believe some of it such as some of the secret society stuff. [Not the Illuminati but secret societies in general.]

One meets in California in the Bohemian Grove.

Like you said, they aren't so much secretive as they are just ignored.

At 5/16/2012 1:23:42 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:Well I don't buy most of Geo's odd beliefs but I can believe some of it such as some of the secret society stuff. [Not the Illuminati but secret societies in general.]

One meets in California in the Bohemian Grove.

Like you said, they aren't so much secretive as they are just ignored.

At 5/16/2012 11:29:11 AM, Danielle wrote:Maybe there should be a separate thread where Geo can defend his views. I don't think that's singling him out -- I think he would like it (because he's made similar threads before). He usually doesn't shy away from answering anything so long as he isn't attacked, and I have a few legitimate questions.

At 5/16/2012 12:38:53 PM, drafterman wrote:What I love about conspiracy theories in general is the fact that these organizations are so powerful that they can perform the actions described by the theories, but, apparently, aren't powerful enough to keep it a secret.

First of all their power is limited. Most major conspiracy theorists believe they can defeat the globalists. As Tsarion said, evil contains within itself the seeds of it's own destruction, even Alex Jones has said that they are so arrogant and full of themselves that they get careless and do self-destructive things. He cites Hitler as an example as well as the ancient empires that crumbled and no longer exist.

Also, your argument that if theyre so powerful no secret should get out is utterly ridiculous. They have monetary power, some degree of psychological power and subtle mind manipulation abilities, political power, etc. but that doesn't mean they have the power to control the sound waves that travel through the air and can stop secrets from entering people's ear lobe.

Another point, it's not even secret. It's hidden in plain sight. The Illuminati stamped their freakin logo on the dollar bill for Gods sake. As Alex Jones said "this isn't 2 + 2 = 4, this is 1 + 1 = 2."

Okay:

1. What is it that these entities are doing, specifically, with with you have contention, and

He always complains about people accusing him of trolling but his views do seem a little absurd...

I can't tell if he truly believes what he says or not.

What if everyone on DDO actually believes what Geo says, and they are actually just trolling him? Or better yet they are Illuminati trying to suppress his theories by using mobbing against him.:

*the audible crack of a sniper's round, as Darkermit's head explodes*

"Dissident target neutralized"

We need Oberr here to drag the body away.

#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

At 5/16/2012 12:38:53 PM, drafterman wrote:What I love about conspiracy theories in general is the fact that these organizations are so powerful that they can perform the actions described by the theories, but, apparently, aren't powerful enough to keep it a secret.

First of all their power is limited. Most major conspiracy theorists believe they can defeat the globalists. As Tsarion said, evil contains within itself the seeds of it's own destruction, even Alex Jones has said that they are so arrogant and full of themselves that they get careless and do self-destructive things. He cites Hitler as an example as well as the ancient empires that crumbled and no longer exist.

Given the abilities attributed to these people, there doesn't appear to be any appropriate real-world analogue.

Also, your argument that if theyre so powerful no secret should get out is utterly ridiculous. They have monetary power, some degree of psychological power and subtle mind manipulation abilities, political power, etc. but that doesn't mean they have the power to control the sound waves that travel through the air and can stop secrets from entering people's ear lobe.

Yes it does.

Another point, it's not even secret. It's hidden in plain sight. The Illuminati stamped their freakin logo on the dollar bill for Gods sake. As Alex Jones said "this isn't 2 + 2 = 4, this is 1 + 1 = 2."

At 5/16/2012 11:29:11 AM, Danielle wrote:1. If in fact the Illuminati controls everything -- and the Illuminati is made up of both Democrats and Republicans alike -- then why do politicians spend millions of dollars campaigning against each other if they already know who's going to win anyway?

- The Illuminati doesn't control literally everything.- Politicians still compete against eachother and want to win the Presidency despite both being Illuminati pawns. In the most recent election, McCain and Obama are both globalists and part of globalist organizations, but Zbigniew Brzezinski hand picked Obama early in the campaign as the Illuminati favorite due to his charisma and ability to sell the Illuminati agenda better than McCain.

2. And similarly, why bother endorsing Ron Paul if it's already been decided who will win the election? Is RP, a Republican, part of the exclusive club? He's a pretty influential politician after all.

The Illuminati don't physically control the elections as much as people think. They can't physically control the millions of election booths in the nations found in every grocery store. That's the thing the Illuminati realized. They can't physically control the population so they do it with psychological manipulation. They control people's opinions through the media. Noam Chomsky calls it "manufacturing consent." Alex Jones said that if Ron Paul wins by landslide, then there's nothing the globalists can do to stop it.

Ron Paul is not part of the exclusive club. He's a major threat. In fact, David Rockefeller (who didn't know who Ron Paul is) displayed fear/discontentment when told that Ron Paul wanted to bring the powers of the Federal Reserve back to the Federal government (strip it of it's private control).

3. Why does voting (or libertarianism) even matter if our minds are manipulated by the alien people anyway? And how do you know that they are not manipulating your mind right now to believe what you do?

- I don't believe just what I'm told to believe. I rely on my own mind. There's many conspiracy theorists and I don't just believe every word of every conspiracy researcher- My sources of information aren't from the mainstream media or people paid for by the globalists.

4. What did the Buddha say about the lizards? Are his views compatible?

The Buddha mentioned Reptilians. They were called the Nagas in scripture. The Buddha was quite familiar with aliens and interdimensionals. In the Lotus Sutra he gave a discourse in front of 10,000 extraterrestrials from other worlds and they were even described as having distinct characteristics (scales, wings, other worldly feaures, etc.)

5. David Icke argues that humanity was created by a network of secret societies run by an ancient race of interbreeding bloodlines from the Middle East, originally extraterrestrial. He says The Brotherhood as descendents of reptilians from the constellation Draco, who walk on two legs and appear human, and who live in tunnels and caverns inside the earth. He argues that the reptilians are the race of gods.

I take the alien stuff with a grain of salt. I know the evidence, there's plenty of it, but due to not experiencing first hand or tangible evidence of politicians being Reptilians, I can't say that I know for sure.

What I do know:

- I have seen UFO's in real life.- Given the Drake Equation, ET's are HIGHLY likely.- Ancient records say that ancient aliens exist and that they interbred with humanity. I see no reason not to treat these ancient documents as nothing other than historical events like any other event we accept in history.- The Disclosure Project involves 400 ex-government employees, military personal, insiders, etc. who have all testified to witnessing ET interaction with the Federal government and/or ET's in D.U.M.B.s.

How does evolution fit into this picture?

Mainstream ideas of evolution don't fit, but evolution is still part of the equation.

Also can you link me to the evidence of life on this constellation?

That's just part of the lore and what the alien contactees have said. Even David Icke says in his book Children of the Matrix, "the Draco constellation is the alleged home of the royal reptilian bloodlines."

As far as I know, it's not yet possible for astronomers to determine if there is life on other STARS which are way too far away... But I guess all the scientists in the world are lying. Or manipulated.

Lying about what? If they can't see that far, they can't see that far. Even Carl Sagan believed the Earth has been visited by aliens 5,000 times in Earth's history. And Dr. Crick posits panspermia. Some scientists are rather myopic though and don't research outside the accepted norm. They're pressured to stay within a certain framework and lose credibility if they posit certain things.

6. Icke writes that the Anunnaki have crossbred with human beings, the breeding lines chosen for political reasons, arguing that they are the Watchers, the fallen angels, or "Grigori," who mated with human women in the Biblical apocrypha. Their first reptilian-human hybrid was possibly Adam. If this somehow gives the Bible legitimacy, isn't it possible Jesus was a special enlightened reptile who in fact COULD rise from the dead? Why or why not?

Jesus was not a Reptilian because he was a being of compassion, a being of light. Reptilians are possessed by the Reptilian brain (R-complex). It's possible he was an Enlightened being with the ability to resurrect, maybe.

7. For Icke, the widespread ridiculing of the lizard theory is a guarantee that there's something to it.

Uh, no, that's not why he thinks there's something to it. There was a time when Icke didn't believe in Reptilians. He didn't start investigating it until he was bombarded with a large amount of eye-witnesses.

Do you think this is true of all conspiracy theories considering almost all of them provide some "evidence" for their claims?

You've got it wrong. David Icke and other theorists don't create a conspiracy theory out of a vaccuum and then try to find evidence for the things they make up.

Most of all I'm wondering why we should believe any of the scholars if they too are in fact being mind controlled... or are THEY just the special ones who can rise above it?

Some scholars do break from the status quo.

8. What does Icke/the others suggest we do about all this?

The hierarchy is a pyramid of control. We are the bottom blocks supporting the capstone. If we stop supporting the top, it will come crashing down.

"The fundamental line is discover that there is a hidden hand mind controlling the world operating to keep you down. Understand that you are participant in that because you are allowing those hooks into your flesh."-- Michael Tsarion

It seems to me that there is not much difference between some of his beliefs and people with schizophrenia... and that's really scary.

- I am not aware of the beliefs of schizophrenics.

- "The sick individual finds himself at home with all other similarly sick individuals. The whole culture is geared to this kind of pathology. The result is that the average individual does not experience the separateness and isolation the fully schizophrenic person feels. He feels at ease among those who suffer from the same deformation; in fact, it is the fully sane person who feels isolated in the insane society — and he may suffer so much from the incapacity to communicate that it is he who may become psychotic."-- Erich Fromm (German Psychologist)

"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."-- Krishnamurti (Philosopher)

At 5/16/2012 11:29:11 AM, Danielle wrote:9. Can you please post the sources (proof) for me one more time about people who have SEEN the lizard people? You know - those angelfire websites where anonymous people swear up and down that they've seen them?

Also why are their testimonials anymore credible than the people who have claimed to see Jesus float off into the sky like a helium balloon?

People are preconditioned to have religious beliefs. Then these preconditioned beliefs skew their view of reality. People who see Reptilians have probably never even heard of such a thing and were not preconditioned to believe these things.

10. Finally - and I pose this question to many theists, and I think you do too - What would it take for you to abandon these beliefs that you've come to accept?

I am open minded, but I can't unsee the evidence I have seen. I have changed my views though and they are constantly evolving.

A major criticism I have about DDOians (including myself, at least the old me) is that we're hell-bent on defending our views rather than be open to challenging them.

To be honest, if any one has the ability to challenge and come up with legitimate arguments, it's not any of you, it's me. I know the ins and outs of the conspiracy and know where to find holes. I have questioned my beliefs and quite naturally so.

I think it's interesting that you seem to think everyone else is wrong - brilliant physicists and astronomers and philosophers and chemists and biologists and historians who can all dismantle your ideas...

But I guess it's easy to discredit them when you say everyone else is just unenlightened.

That's not used as an argument against their ideas. You think the countless books written by conspiracists are just 1,000 pages of ad homs? No, it's filled with arguments, evidence, and relayed information.

You know kinda like Scientologists.

No, not at all. No Scientologist has the ability to make a convincing argument for their beliefs. If there is, I've never heard of them. There's a reason why conspiracists have good representatives like David Icke and Michael Tsarion and who have names, I can think of no big Scientologists who are on their level.

Thank you in advance for your time. I'm genuinely curious so I sincerely appreciate it.

- The Illuminati doesn't control literally everything.- Politicians still compete against eachother and want to win the Presidency despite both being Illuminati pawns. In the most recent election, McCain and Obama are both globalists and part of globalist organizations, but Zbigniew Brzezinski hand picked Obama early in the campaign as the Illuminati favorite due to his charisma and ability to sell the Illuminati agenda better than McCain.

How do you know so much about the inner workings of the Illuminati? What is the Illuminati agenda?

The Illuminati don't physically control the elections as much as people think. They can't physically control the millions of election booths in the nations found in every grocery store. That's the thing the Illuminati realized. They can't physically control the population so they do it with psychological manipulation. They control people's opinions through the media. Noam Chomsky calls it "manufacturing consent." Alex Jones said that if Ron Paul wins by landslide, then there's nothing the globalists can do to stop it.

Ron Paul is not part of the exclusive club. He's a major threat. In fact, David Rockefeller (who didn't know who Ron Paul is) displayed fear/discontentment when told that Ron Paul wanted to bring the powers of the Federal Reserve back to the Federal government (strip it of it's private control).

So how powerful are there really? If they fear Ron Paul?

- I don't believe just what I'm told to believe. I rely on my own mind. There's many conspiracy theorists and I don't just believe every word of every conspiracy researcher- My sources of information aren't from the mainstream media or people paid for by the globalists.

How do you know your sources aren't paid by a different powerful group to distract you?

4. What did the Buddha say about the lizards? Are his views compatible?

The Buddha mentioned Reptilians. They were called the Nagas in scripture. The Buddha was quite familiar with aliens and interdimensionals. In the Lotus Sutra he gave a discourse in front of 10,000 extraterrestrials from other worlds and they were even described as having distinct characteristics (scales, wings, other worldly feaures, etc.)

I saw God in my back yard two weeks ago. What makes him more credible than I?

5. David Icke argues that humanity was created by a network of secret societies run by an ancient race of interbreeding bloodlines from the Middle East, originally extraterrestrial. He says The Brotherhood as descendents of reptilians from the constellation Draco, who walk on two legs and appear human, and who live in tunnels and caverns inside the earth. He argues that the reptilians are the race of gods.

What? That doesn't seem completely insane to you?

I take the alien stuff with a grain of salt. I know the evidence, there's plenty of it, but due to not experiencing first hand or tangible evidence of politicians being Reptilians, I can't say that I know for sure.

Good man.

What I do know:

- I have seen UFO's in real life.- Given the Drake Equation, ET's are HIGHLY likely.- Ancient records say that ancient aliens exist and that they interbred with humanity. I see no reason not to treat these ancient documents as nothing other than historical events like any other event we accept in history.- The Disclosure Project involves 400 ex-government employees, military personal, insiders, etc. who have all testified to witnessing ET interaction with the Federal government and/or ET's in D.U.M.B.s.

I can believe in aliens. No. I know for a fact we aren't the only ones out there. But what are the chances humans would be able to breed with a species from another planet? We can't breed with other species from our own damn planet.

How does evolution fit into this picture?

Mainstream ideas of evolution don't fit, but evolution is still part of the equation.

Also can you link me to the evidence of life on this constellation?

That's just part of the lore and what the alien contactees have said. Even David Icke says in his book Children of the Matrix, "the Draco constellation is the alleged home of the royal reptilian bloodlines."

Lying about what? If they can't see that far, they can't see that far. Even Carl Sagan believed the Earth has been visited by aliens 5,000 times in Earth's history. And Dr. Crick posits panspermia. Some scientists are rather myopic though and don't research outside the accepted norm. They're pressured to stay within a certain framework and lose credibility if they posit certain things.

No. That's not....no. Scientist say controversal stuff all the time. If they can back it up, the back it up

Jesus was not a Reptilian because he was a being of compassion, a being of light. Reptilians are possessed by the Reptilian brain (R-complex). It's possible he was an Enlightened being with the ability to resurrect, maybe.

WHAT?

Uh, no, that's not why he thinks there's something to it. There was a time when Icke didn't believe in Reptilians. He didn't start investigating it until he was bombarded with a large amount of eye-witnesses.

Yes, but they are loads of people who says god speaks to them? Why are they less credible than his witnesses?

You've got it wrong. David Icke and other theorists don't create a conspiracy theory out of a vaccuum and then try to find evidence for the things they make up.

The hierarchy is a pyramid of control. We are the bottom blocks supporting the capstone. If we stop supporting the top, it will come crashing down.

That doesn't tell us what to do...

"The fundamental line is discover that there is a hidden hand mind controlling the world operating to keep you down. Understand that you are participant in that because you are allowing those hooks into your flesh."-- Michael Tsarion

That's nuts.

It seems to me that there is not much difference between some of his beliefs and people with schizophrenia... and that's really scary.

At 5/18/2012 11:02:33 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:- The Illuminati doesn't control literally everything.- Politicians still compete against eachother and want to win the Presidency despite both being Illuminati pawns. In the most recent election, McCain and Obama are both globalists and part of globalist organizations, but Zbigniew Brzezinski hand picked Obama early in the campaign as the Illuminati favorite due to his charisma and ability to sell the Illuminati agenda better than McCain.

So then how can they control thousands of media outlets? Each media outlet has thousands of people working for them. How can they all be working for Illuminati?

At 5/18/2012 11:02:33 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:- The Illuminati doesn't control literally everything.- Politicians still compete against eachother and want to win the Presidency despite both being Illuminati pawns. In the most recent election, McCain and Obama are both globalists and part of globalist organizations, but Zbigniew Brzezinski hand picked Obama early in the campaign as the Illuminati favorite due to his charisma and ability to sell the Illuminati agenda better than McCain.

So then how can they control thousands of media outlets? Each media outlet has thousands of people working for them. How can they all be working for Illuminati?

They don't. Only the heads of the media outlets like Rupert Murdoch. The journalists are already conditioned to believe along the status quo lines so they don't need to be directly controlled. But since they're not directly controlled, you get guys who break from the status quo like Cafferty, John Stossel, and Lou Dobbs.