I saw far more ti bikes at CO than in the past three years. That may be in part because the route was flatter so less emphasis on weight and more attraction for less than stellar climbers. But the difference was big enough that I have to believe there is some change in perception.

The bikes I saw include Merlins, a few Serottas, a few Sevens, a Dean, a Sage (a bike imported into Portland, designed with input from Dave Levy of TiCycles and inspected by him) and several others, (I never got organized and wrote the names down.) There was a ti tandem with massive tubing from Pennsylvania ridden by a couple who loved it.

I think the word is getting out that ti is an awfullly nice material if you ride chip seal. I think people are starting to notice that when we hit nice pavement that the steel and ti riders aren't singing out "Ah!" and also aren't slowing when the rough stuff appears.

I also noticed the increase in Ti at CO. One interesting Ti I noticed was a Lynskey with disc brakes. The owner said it was a great bike, but he really didn't care for the disc brakes because they were too noisy, especially when they were damp.

the steel and ti riders aren't singing out "Ah!" and also aren't slowing when the rough stuff appears.

This was my fourth CO and I have brought my steel Indy Fab to all of them. My Orca is a faster/lighter bike, but when it comes to smoothing out the chip seal roads, I turn to the Indy Fab.

madvax, did you listen to Brett Fleming (Bicycle Gallery's ace mechanic who did bike seminars each evening) talk about disc brakes? He was pretty convincing talking about disc brakes being a lot more work to keep up and running well than standard brakes, essentially saying if you do not actually need disc brakes, you should stick with tried and true calipers.

you know, we have been doping more and more Lynskey's this year, some very nice road bikes, some MTB's, and a very cool disc cross bike that rides like you would not believe. The myth that you can't build a Ti or steel bike as light as a carbon bike is just that, a myth, I think people have just forgot about that super buttery smooth ride that you get with Ti and steel disc brakes only get noisy if you don't take care of them, or some people contaminate the pads with chain lube, or the oils of their skin on the rotors I did some guide rides for a client here this week from Oregon, he raved about the Cycle Oregon Tour, sounds pretty cool

Come on... you can build Ti and steel as light as most people need. But there are probably a dozen or more carbon frames now going under 800g. That is not the case for steel or Ti. My next bike may very well be Ti. It will be more than light enough for me. BUT... Ti and steel cannot be made as light as carbon and still have decent ride characteristics.