The1andonlyZack:Everyone talking about Denver being a wild card team needs to remember that KC has played the easiest schedule thus far. KC could easily lose 4 of their last 7 games, including 2 to Denver. And Indy now without Wayne and a questionable run game to begin with isn't a lock either.

I'm assuming you are giving them Cleveland, Oakland and Washington. You really don't think they'll beat Buffalo, too, and split the Denver and SD series?

Bears have no Jay Cutler.The Vikings suck this year.The Lions are the Lions.

Division is already won 7 weeks in.

Congrats.

I do not have the time or the energy to compile the stats and info, but how many teams match the success of the Packers over the last 20 years? The Patriots come to mind, and maybe the Steelers and Giants. The Ravens have been consistently decent after their first few seasons, but they haven't been around for 20 years. I wonder how much of the Packers success has come from being in the NFL short bus division. Every once in a while, one of the window lickers figures it out, but come next season, whoosh...all gone.

The1andonlyZack:Everyone talking about Denver being a wild card team needs to remember that KC has played the easiest schedule thus far. KC could easily lose 4 of their last 7 games, including 2 to Denver. And Indy now without Wayne and a questionable run game to begin with isn't a lock either.

Can't speak for anyone else, but I mentioned it tongue in cheek. Alex Smith is looking Alex Smithy lately...

mediablitz:The1andonlyZack: Everyone talking about Denver being a wild card team needs to remember that KC has played the easiest schedule thus far. KC could easily lose 4 of their last 7 games, including 2 to Denver. And Indy now without Wayne and a questionable run game to begin with isn't a lock either.

Can't speak for anyone else, but I mentioned it tongue in cheek. Alex Smith is looking Alex Smithy lately...

All he has to do is continue to play up to Trent Dilfer level of play. He puts up 17 and he's going to win 9 times out of 10.

Bears have no Jay Cutler.The Vikings suck this year.The Lions are the Lions.

Division is already won 7 weeks in.

Congrats.

I do not have the time or the energy to compile the stats and info, but how many teams match the success of the Packers over the last 20 years? The Patriots come to mind, and maybe the Steelers and Giants. The Ravens have been consistently decent after their first few seasons, but they haven't been around for 20 years. I wonder how much of the Packers success has come from being in the NFL short bus division. Every once in a while, one of the window lickers figures it out, but come next season, whoosh...all gone.

Well basically any team that has had a legitimate franchise QB in the last twenty years. So in my lifetime (27 years), that's going to be the 49ers, Cowboys, Packers, Colts, Patriots, Steelers, and Ravens (no franchise QB). The giants are kind of on the bubble due to SBs, but they have had some god awful seasons in between. I might be missing a team, so someone feel free to fill in any I missed.

factoryconnection:Forgive my ignorance, but that sounds like two full rosters of guys gone before even half of the regular season. I think that while the athletes are getting bigger, stronger, and faster the reality is that brains, bones, ligaments and tendons are still made of the same old-school materials and are wilting under the strain.

Meanwhile, 6-1 Denver just added Von Miller back, 6-1 Seattle will add Percy Harvin to the mix soon (not to mention getting Bobby Wagner, Russell Okung & Breno Giacomini back in the coming weeks too), and 5-2 San Francisco will look to add Michael Crabtree back later on this season.

/The Broncos dropped their 1st game with their best pass rusher back & the Pats got Gronk back and immediately dumped a game to the Jets, so I guess take those big additions with a grain of salt

Bears have no Jay Cutler.The Vikings suck this year.The Lions are the Lions.

Division is already won 7 weeks in.

Congrats.

I do not have the time or the energy to compile the stats and info, but how many teams match the success of the Packers over the last 20 years? The Patriots come to mind, and maybe the Steelers and Giants. The Ravens have been consistently decent after their first few seasons, but they haven't been around for 20 years. I wonder how much of the Packers success has come from being in the NFL short bus division. Every once in a while, one of the window lickers figures it out, but come next season, whoosh...all gone.

Just look up teams that transitioned from Brett Favre to Aaron Rogers, that seems to help.

Bears were busy spending all their time and money on defense during that time and it's only worked once (almost 2 or 3 times) since the 80s.

mikaloyd:I was grumpy that the raiders and saints both had a bye this week. Now not so much. Much better week to get healthy than to play in hindsight.

Speaking of getting injured though its part of playing football. Its going to happen. Also here arte players who get too aggressive in the heat of the moment and hurt others. This will happen. However there are some worse plqayers, really dirty players, who go that extra mile to try to injure other players, just cuz they can. These kinds of players need be reined in or if they cannot be reined in they should be drummed out of the league Suh and Icognito Spring to to mind as two of the bad ones. And last night the Donkey's Vickerson joined Suh and Incognito by punching the Colts center Satele in his (already injured) knee while he was trapped underneath Vickerson

mikaloyd:I was grumpy that the raiders and saints both had a bye this week. Now not so much. Much better week to get healthy than to play in hindsight.

Speaking of getting injured though its part of playing football. Its going to happen. Also here arte players who get too aggressive in the heat of the moment and hurt others. This will happen. However there are some worse plqayers, really dirty players, who go that extra mile to try to injure other players, just cuz they can. These kinds of players need be reined in or if they cannot be reined in they should be drummed out of the league Suh and Icognito Spring to to mind as two of the bad ones. And last night the Donkey's Vickerson joined Suh and Incognito by punching the Colts center Satele in his (already injured) knee while he was trapped underneath Vickerson

I wonder what happens to Vickerson over this?

Satele shouldn't have even been in the game. He's a bad enough center when he's healthy. He's god awful when he's playing hurt. He's proven that last year and this year.

Bears have no Jay Cutler.The Vikings suck this year.The Lions are the Lions.

Division is already won 7 weeks in.

Congrats.

I do not have the time or the energy to compile the stats and info, but how many teams match the success of the Packers over the last 20 years? The Patriots come to mind, and maybe the Steelers and Giants. The Ravens have been consistently decent after their first few seasons, but they haven't been around for 20 years. I wonder how much of the Packers success has come from being in the NFL short bus division. Every once in a while, one of the window lickers figures it out, but come next season, whoosh...all gone.

Before the best part of the Aaron Rodgers' era, I remember a Football Outsiders look. At the time their stats only went back into the early 90's, so it captured the Favre era. It was Denver with the Elway/Terrell Davis era as the best team over that period, based DVOA (defense-adjusted value over average) though it could have been annual average or some cumulative look.With the Rodgers era AND the Manning Denver resurgence, there might not be any big changes except that New England would probably be continuously creeping upwards. And don't rule out Manning's Indianapolis era; while they had bad playoff runs, their regular season teams were nearly unbeatable.

hermitage_deux:I noticed that the term 'concussion' has been replaced by "head injury" when sports guys on tv talk about concussions.

/bs

I would guess that it is largely due to the fact that everyone knows the concussion/PCS/CTE problem does not stem from the big hits that we see and are flagged/punished in the NFL's big dog-and-pony show but the constant little ones that the linemen and running backs take 40 times a game.

Then again, I still swear on everything that the farking ground is the reason for all of these players having head problems.

I havent seen Brandon Meriweather play. Is he dirty more than just hard hitting and aggressive?

Meriweather might just be the first guy the players union refuses to advocate for if he continues playing like a dillhole. He tries to end careers with every hit. I just keep hoping it's his own career when he breaks his neck while using his helmet as a weapon.

Bears have no Jay Cutler.The Vikings suck this year.The Lions are the Lions.

Division is already won 7 weeks in.

Congrats.

I do not have the time or the energy to compile the stats and info, but how many teams match the success of the Packers over the last 20 years? The Patriots come to mind, and maybe the Steelers and Giants. The Ravens have been consistently decent after their first few seasons, but they haven't been around for 20 years. I wonder how much of the Packers success has come from being in the NFL short bus division. Every once in a while, one of the window lickers figures it out, but come next season, whoosh...all gone.

So no, not really. I mean, you have been better, no denying that with 2 more Divsional wins and 2 more superbowl wins over your nearest competitor. But the Vikings haven't just randomly popped up. The Bears maybe.... not us though. We just shiat the bed when it MATTERS normally. You know, the playoffs.

I havent seen Brandon Meriweather play. Is he dirty more than just hard hitting and aggressive?

If there's been an NFL safety with less of a nose for the football, I'd like to know. He's the opposite of (the artist formerly known as) Ed Reed. Just completely lost out there and 5 steps away. And yes, the guy who's 5 steps away but still makes a hit is dirty and a bit of a show boat.

Bears have no Jay Cutler.The Vikings suck this year.The Lions are the Lions.

Division is already won 7 weeks in.

Congrats.

I do not have the time or the energy to compile the stats and info, but how many teams match the success of the Packers over the last 20 years? The Patriots come to mind, and maybe the Steelers and Giants. The Ravens have been consistently decent after their first few seasons, but they haven't been around for 20 years. I wonder how much of the Packers success has come from being in the NFL short bus division. Every once in a while, one of the window lickers figures it out, but come next season, whoosh...all gone.

SB Winners In the last 20 years:

GB: 2Ravens: 2Dallas: 3Broncos: 2Giants: 2Patriots: 3

So you are certainly on par with other teams that win SBs.

NFC North/Central Division winners:

Lions: 1Bucs: 1Vikings: 7 6Bears: 4Packers: 9

So no, not really. I mean, you have been better, no denying that with 23 more Divsional wins and 2 more superbowl wins over your nearest competitor. But the Vikings haven't just randomly popped up. The Bears maybe.... not us though. We just shiat the bed when it MATTERS normally. You know, the playoffs.

mikaloyd:redmid17: mikaloyd: redmid17: Satele shouldn't have even been in the game. He's a bad enough center when he's healthy. He's god awful when he's playing hurt. He's proven that last year and this year.

So the knee punch was OK by you?

Um no. I just didn't want Satele in. I thought I explained that adequately when I said "Satele shouldn't even have been in the game."

I bet hes out now!

I mean I'm sure vickerson hits hard, but he doesn't seem like he'd be Tyson or someone.

So no, not really. I mean, you have been better, no denying that with 2 3 more Divsional wins and 2 more superbowl wins over your nearest competitor. But the Vikings haven't just randomly popped up. The Bears maybe.... not us though. We just shiat the bed when it MATTERS normally. You know, the playoffs.

I havent seen Brandon Meriweather play. Is he dirty more than just hard hitting and aggressive?

If there's been an NFL safety with less of a nose for the football, I'd like to know. He's the opposite of (the artist formerly known as) Ed Reed. Just completely lost out there and 5 steps away. And yes, the guy who's 5 steps away but still makes a hit is dirty and a bit of a show boat.

In Brandon's defense I would like to point out that he is very, very, very, very, very stupid.

So no, not really. I mean, you have been better, no denying that with 2 3 more Divsional wins and 2 more superbowl wins over your nearest competitor. But the Vikings haven't just randomly popped up. The Bears maybe.... not us though. We just shiat the bed when it MATTERS normally. You know, the playoffs.

At least the penalty wasn't a "if it weren't for that we would have won it" situation. If it weren't for that call, they'd remain in overtime... period.

bradkanus: As far as Wayne is concerned - that's the one game the had to win this year and he gave his body up for it. Nobody gives a shiat from here on out in Indy. They proved getting rid of Manning was the right thing to do.

Yes but there is this whole "playoff" thing in the NFL.

I'm told by a certain Farker that playoffs are a terrible thing anyway and we should base championships solely off the regular season.

mikaloyd:redmid17: I mean I'm sure vickerson hits hard, but he doesn't seem like he'd be Tyson or someone.

Find out what he bench presses, divide it in half, and drop that much weight from 18 inches up on a hurt knee for approximation.

In the 2005 combine he benched 375 when he weighed 301 Currently listed weight is 328 and he isnt a "fat" 328

Also, ironically, Vickerson is angry and temper tantrummy about the calls against him in the game.

After his second personal foul penalty Sunday night, both for removing his helmet, Vickerson steamed on the Denver Broncos' sideline, leaned over and punched an orange Gatorade cooler."When you get calls that don't go your way, you get cheap shots and [crap] like that, but still get called against you, what are you going to do then? You try to play through it," Vickerson told USA TODAY Sports. "But at the same time, it's frustrating, when you know you did everything right. You know what I mean?"

mikaloyd:redmid17: I mean I'm sure vickerson hits hard, but he doesn't seem like he'd be Tyson or someone.

Find out what he bench presses, divide it in half, and drop that much weight from 18 inches up on a hurt knee for approximation.

I saw the play. No way he can put all of his strength and weight into a punch from that angle. Either way, if you are in a position that someone punching the back of your knee can take you out of the game, you probably shouldn't be in the game in the first place. You are most likely playing at a level below that of your backup.

McGlynn, despite being the worst starting guard in the NFL, has been surprisingly competent at C the few times he's filled in for Satele. He did it a few games last year and two this year.

redmid17:mikaloyd: redmid17: I mean I'm sure vickerson hits hard, but he doesn't seem like he'd be Tyson or someone.

Find out what he bench presses, divide it in half, and drop that much weight from 18 inches up on a hurt knee for approximation.

I saw the play. No way he can put all of his strength and weight into a punch from that angle. Either way, if you are in a position that someone punching the back of your knee can take you out of the game, you probably shouldn't be in the game in the first place. You are most likely playing at a level below that of your backup.

McGlynn, despite being the worst starting guard in the NFL, has been surprisingly competent at C the few times he's filled in for Satele. He did it a few games last year and two this year.

Worth noting that Satele had missed a few plays with a knee issue earlier in the game. If Vickerson targeted a knee he knew was at least slightly injured with a dirty move after the play, he deserves to lose a gamecheck.

Find out what he bench presses, divide it in half, and drop that much weight from 18 inches up on a hurt knee for approximation.

I saw the play. No way he can put all of his strength and weight into a punch from that angle. Either way, if you are in a position that someone punching the back of your knee can take you out of the game, you probably shouldn't be in the game in the first place. You are most likely playing at a level below that of your backup.

McGlynn, despite being the worst starting guard in the NFL, has been surprisingly competent at C the few times he's filled in for Satele. He did it a few games last year and two this year.

Worth noting that Satele had missed a few plays with a knee issue earlier in the game. If Vickerson targeted a knee he knew was at least slightly injured with a dirty move after the play, he deserves to lose a gamecheck.

For sure. Honestly the least he should expect is a 1 game suspension. His personal foul on Luck was ticky tack to say the least, but getting 2 personal fouls in one game and knocking a player out of the game is not a recipe for success.

UNC_Samurai:I'm told by a certain Farker that playoffs are a terrible thing anyway and we should base championships solely off the regular season.

this could be played out pretty easily, but i wonder how many championships just within the last 20 years, if determined by regular season record and not this little thing called the "Super Bowl" would be out there? obviously the Pats would have one more at least (2008), but the Pittsburgh won both without home field advantage, menaing they weren't even the best team in the AFC much less league....

i guess what i'm saying is a team like Demver probably has at least one championship (i think in 1997 or 1996 they were like, 14-2 but lost early in playoffs) and then a few other teams don't have lombardi's period.

Find out what he bench presses, divide it in half, and drop that much weight from 18 inches up on a hurt knee for approximation.

I saw the play. No way he can put all of his strength and weight into a punch from that angle. Either way, if you are in a position that someone punching the back of your knee can take you out of the game, you probably shouldn't be in the game in the first place. You are most likely playing at a level below that of your backup.

McGlynn, despite being the worst starting guard in the NFL, has been surprisingly competent at C the few times he's filled in for Satele. He did it a few games last year and two this year.

Worth noting that Satele had missed a few plays with a knee issue earlier in the game. If Vickerson targeted a knee he knew was at least slightly injured with a dirty move after the play, he deserves to lose a gamecheck.

For sure. Honestly the least he should expect is a 1 game suspension. His personal foul on Luck was ticky tack to say the least, but getting 2 personal fouls in one game and knocking a player out of the game is not a recipe for success.

3 personal fouls - or maybe 2.5. The 2nd helmet removal penalty was on a play where he and another Denver player were called for the same infraction. They never specified which was officially accepted and which was declined. Essentially, he was called for 45 yards worth of personal foul penalties within about 5 minutes of gametime.

rickythepenguin:UNC_Samurai: I'm told by a certain Farker that playoffs are a terrible thing anyway and we should base championships solely off the regular season.

this could be played out pretty easily, but i wonder how many championships just within the last 20 years, if determined by regular season record and not this little thing called the "Super Bowl" would be out there? obviously the Pats would have one more at least (2008), but the Pittsburgh won both without home field advantage, menaing they weren't even the best team in the AFC much less league....

i guess what i'm saying is a team like Demver probably has at least one championship (i think in 1997 or 1996 they were like, 14-2 but lost early in playoffs) and then a few other teams don't have lombardi's period.

In order for something like that to be viable, you'd have to have a greatly expanded season in which each team played each other team twice (home and away). Anyone up for smashing 62 games into a 6 month timeframe?

Find out what he bench presses, divide it in half, and drop that much weight from 18 inches up on a hurt knee for approximation.

I saw the play. No way he can put all of his strength and weight into a punch from that angle. Either way, if you are in a position that someone punching the back of your knee can take you out of the game, you probably shouldn't be in the game in the first place. You are most likely playing at a level below that of your backup.

McGlynn, despite being the worst starting guard in the NFL, has been surprisingly competent at C the few times he's filled in for Satele. He did it a few games last year and two this year.

Worth noting that Satele had missed a few plays with a knee issue earlier in the game. If Vickerson targeted a knee he knew was at least slightly injured with a dirty move after the play, he deserves to lose a gamecheck.

For sure. Honestly the least he should expect is a 1 game suspension. His personal foul on Luck was ticky tack to say the least, but getting 2 personal fouls in one game and knocking a player out of the game is not a recipe for success.

3 personal fouls - or maybe 2.5. The 2nd helmet removal penalty was on a play where he and another Denver player were called for the same infraction. They never specified which was officially accepted and which was declined. Essentially, he was called for 45 yards worth of personal foul penalties within about 5 minutes of gametime.

Shame Us:In order for something like that to be viable, you'd have to have a greatly expanded season in which each team played each other team twice (home and away).

i don't think you would have to, although i agree round robin is the only fair format that system would work. i'm just saying, run 20 years of the NFL win totals, and crown that team the championship. how different the totals would be.

i mean, how many times int he last maybe 5-6 years has the team with the best record not even made the Super Bowl? it seems like the narrative from about 2009 on (plus or minus), was "the road warriors made it to the super bowl!" by definition, tha tmeans fewer win totals in their own cnoference.

rickythepenguin:it seems like the narrative from about 2009 on (plus or minus),

The narrative about narratives being a thing wasnt even a narrative until after the first 4 games of the 2011 narrative. Now its part of the culture narrative of sports journalism in the National Football League.

Before the best part of the Aaron Rodgers' era, I remember a Football Outsiders look. At the time their stats only went back into the early 90's, so it captured the Favre era. It was Denver with the Elway/Terrell Davis era as the best team over that period, based DVOA (defense-adjusted value over average) though it could have been annual average or some cumulative look.With the Rodgers era AND the Manning Denver resurgence, there might not be any big changes except that New England would probably be continuously creeping upwards. And don't rule out Manning's Indianapolis era; while they had bad playoff runs, their regular season teams were nearly unbeatable.

Great, now I am going to want to look it up and you gave me the place to find it...if you give a Di a table, she may just want to chart it...

So no, not really. I mean, you have been better, no denying that with 2 more Divsional wins and 2 more superbowl wins over your nearest competitor. But the Vikings haven't just randomly popped up. The Bears maybe.... not us though. We just shiat the bed when it MATTERS normally. You know, the playoffs.

You do get that calling the other teams in the NFC North window lickers was not in depth analysis, and was intended for humorous purposes only right?