A couple of factors to bear in mind are how modern the diesel vehicle is and the sort of driving one does. The engine itself might happily live on cheap fuel for >200,000km but the ancillaries bolted on to meet more stringent regulations might not. Meeting Euro 6 standards (2015+) requires a heap of exhaust gas recirculation, diesel particulate filtration and additive squirting into the catalyst. Bit early to tell if the tech is more clever now, but interweb abounded with Euro 5 diesel owners going into limp mode inside 80,000 miles with big bills for EGR, DPF and common-rail repairs. Not a scientific sample, but stop-start short journey takers with supermarket diesel had more problems than V-Power fillers doing long motorway slogs.

Also unscientific, but I bought a Euro 4 (no DPF, just EGR) that had spent the past year as a self-employed's jobber. Diagnostics suggested the EGR wasn't right so I put in 1/2 a tank of V-Power, a bottle of Wynns and went around the M62 which cleared it (spun nicely, too). In my use, it travels at an almost constant 80 or 110kmh and €1.13 diesel + Redex (£2/bottle at Tesco and Asda) appears to be fine. Before I get too smug, it might soon be the case that I'm banned from driving into the city of the French hotel I've booked for the night*

If I had a modern diesel, I'd probably stump up for the classier fuel and an occasional Wynns as insurance against a four-digit bill. Not petrol, though. BP Ultimate gave me a few more mpg (not enough) but nothing else in a boggo family hatch.

Crikey, apols if this is old hat to most contributors (I've not been back long) but the 30/08 - 05/09 edition of Euro Weekly News had a fairly low-key article that the Spanish govt were considering increasing the price of diesel by a whopping 28%, pushing even the cheapest pump price over €1.50 per litre. Anybody have an informed view of how likely, and timescale?

If that is the case then it will certainly affect everyone I know. All our camposino neighbours drive ancient old vans and cars, all diesel, and I can't imagine them being very happy to pay so much. It would influence our next car purchase, although I really want to stick to diesel if I can.

1bassleft wrote:the 30/08 - 05/09 edition of Euro Weekly News had a fairly low-key article that the Spanish govt were considering increasing the price of diesel by a whopping 28%, pushing even the cheapest pump price over €1.50 per litre.

Blimey, glad I scrapped my 2.0 4x4 last month!

With the advent of the new emissions regulations though, there have been some amazing deal on the forecourts these last months as dealers try to shift old stock before the deadline. I think they have now had to register everything left and sell them as "0km" so you might still find something affordable.

To avoid being banned from any cities we just bought a SEAT TGI hybrid which runs on compressed gas or petrol. It has two tanks giving a range of around 1000km. Not many gas (UK meaning) stations around our way yet but apparently Fenosa and Repsol are working on it. In the meantime we have a small petrol car that merits an ECO sticker. Lucky timing though because to meet those same new emissions tests, SEAT have now altered future models to have a bigger gas tank and a tiny petrol one, which in my mind makes it as limited as a plug-in.

p.s. You can use the Repsol Waylet app to view a map and get prices for individual Repsol stations.

For some reason the diesels we've had have always seem a stronger more trouble free car. We live in the campo and need 4x4 otherwise I'd be glad to have a little runaround. We fill the back up with wood in the winter and it has great load space for Ikea purchases etc as we can fit 2m boxes in the back.

I've been trying to persuade my OH that we keep the big ol' 2.2L wagon and buy a new tiddly Panda 4x4 which would be easier to park and cheaper to run on a daily basis. We would then only use the bigger, less fuel efficient car for when we need it for getting wood etc. In my mind the extra cost for insurance and tax for a new little 2nd car (not needing ITV or very much maintenance for the first few years) would be offset by the saving of not buying a new blooming great big one which seem to be around at least 30K these days.

Good idea, Wicksy, although it also took me a lot of talking. I don't need 4x4 here, but the diesel lugger is for the cross-Europe trip (also can be dragged out if there's a highway stretch) but the little Modus is the go-to for shopping, Spanish classes etc. Circa €50 in tax and €230 in insurance (plus it's Spanish whereas the other is only good for 6 months/year) and I can squeeze the parking and not have to take the roof box off to get in the multi-storeys.

If we get a second car then it must be much smaller than the usual SUVs and 4x4s and we are wondering whether we can manage without a 4x4 now as they are so much more expensive. I have seen the Dacia Sandero Stepway about a lot recently which is a smaller car and very cheap. Really we need to get some prices and do some test drives. It's always interesting when we hire a car as some we really like, and others we hate, but we need to see whether it can get up the hills here which is a different matter.

The fuel around here hasn't changed in price for ages. Ordinary diesel is around 1.30/1.28 at the mo.

Mrs W, how many times have you really needed 4x4 ? bet it's not many. I have thought about it for a while and concluded that, for most, it is just not needed.There will always be those living up an unmaintained track who need the ground clearance however.

I think the Panda 4x4 is a sound starting point, Wicksey. If you really must have the ground clearance, there's the Cross version with extra height and claddings. Otherwise, I would baulk at the increased cost. The boggo 4x4, (if it has snow/mud tyres like the UK version) would probably fit the bill. Also, unless you must have the 1.3 diesel, don't rule out the petrol. I haven't tried the 0.9 Twinpot, but found the Pandas with a 1.2 petrol engine to be peppy drives and made me forget I was in an (2WD in my case) econobox. There's also a 6th gear and sluggish eco-mode to make you feel greener, that comes on by default but can be switched off. Definitely makes sense as short-trip-but-I-live-up-a-dirt-track transport. Also, it automatically switches to 2WD above 50kmh, unless needed.

Lyric wrote:Mrs W, how many times have you really needed 4x4 ? bet it's not many. I have thought about it for a while and concluded that, for most, it is just not needed.There will always be those living up an unmaintained track who need the ground clearance however.

Our car has got an auto mode where it will switch power to the back wheels when needed. We use 2WD once we are on the main road but use auto when we come off road. The 4WD mode shouldn't be used on surfaced roads apparently so as most of ours is now concreted I only use it if I meet someone and have to stop.

It's not the unmade stretches that are the potential problem, but the steepness of the concreted parts. Our car broke down 10 days ago and I am using a friend's ordinary car and it does come up here OK but I dread meeting anyone as it won't get going again on the steepest parts. Even in our 4x4 I need the 4WD in order to start moving again ..... this isn't the road that you use Lyric ... it is our short cut, half the distant but twice the steepness It's true it's not many times and maybe we could manage without as the extra cost for 4x4 is so much.

Thanks 1bassleft, that's interesting to know, particularly the petrol version of the Panda. Apparently the budget is on 30 September so we'll see if the proposed fuel tax rise goes through then. It will certainly affect our choice of car purchase but I really do need to start doing some test driving.

One of the annoying things about modern cars (and many 4x4s) is the very high reverse gear - sometimes halfway in ratio between 1st and 2nd. Great for reversing at speed, but NOT for doing reverse hill starts.Add to that the use of non-asbestos (now glass-fibre-metal-resin) clutch linings, and the smoke and smell and wear on a steep reverse hill start can be dreadful.Older cars tended to have Rev gear very close to 1st in ratio. Hey, ho.

I'm starting to sound like Fiat's marketing dept (I did look into the 2nd gen 4x4 Panda when I got thinking about switching to La Vinuela; a lot of tarmacced but steep and sharp corners) but it's fitting your bill more and more. I sometimes got the old one-litre fourpot consciously and thought it was "it'll do" transport around Benalmadena etc (and better than, eg, the Mk1 Ka) but it was hopeless when I went further afield and, if I got stuck behind the camiones climbing up the A7, I was condemned to never seeing 100kmh. I had a bitter argue when I was handed one as 'equivalent' to what I had actually ordered with road trips in mind. When I did get a 1.2, though, it transformed the car and handled uphills easily. The ergonomics and packaging are superior to "cuter" smalls like the 500.I had a read on the latest version; both the 1.3 diesel and the 0.9 two cylinder put the torque down by 2000rpm and 1st gear on the petrol is super-low so both should pull away from standstill better than the 1.2 - two biggish cylinders are better than four small ones in that respect. Also, taking Torre's point, reverse is not far off 1st and nowhere near the 2nd ratio. More mpg from the diesel of course but, if it's going to be your short-trip choice, the petrol version is better suited, cheaper and likely to be more reliable funnily enough.

Thanks that's very interesting to know. A local car hie company has started to rent the Panda and we're considering renting one to see how it goes. Not sure if the most up to date series though.

The fuel price is certainly something to consider when buying another car, and also for selling on in the future. From what you read in the Uk diesels are loosing value greatly since the drive towards electric and petrol.

Wicksey, I can see your problem. We have just sold an 18 year old Mitsubishi Pinin, a Cleo sized 4x4 with all the clever off road transmission bits. It was a great car and invaluable before our very steep access road was tarmacked. Replaced with an even smaller VW Up! Although it only has a 3 cylinder 75hp engine it storms up the hill and is superb for shopping. If I wanted a small 4x4 again, I agree the Panda is good, but the latest Suzuki Jimmy has just come out and it is miles better than the old one. Even shorter than before and with a full 4x4 gearbox with a transfer box giving a set of very low gears. I have seen a review against a Discovery and it did really well, in some cases better because of it’s weight. It looks just like a mini Mercedes G-Wagen!

A bit more expensive than the Panda but likely to hold its value better. Worth a look if you decide to stay with a 4x4.