KQµårk 死神 : I think that most of the ideology of the GOP is greed save for the religious right and even they are buying into the greed is good religion so that is right wing ideology.

AdLib : Romney doesn’t have an ideology aside from greed. He’ll do whatever, take whatever position, say whatever lie, as long as he gets what he wants. And this time, the brat ain’t gettin’ the lollypop!

AdLib : Night Murph! Have a great weekend!

MurphTheSurf3 : Well I am calling it a night….great discussion but I am barely awake.

KQµårk 死神 : Yup and the important part is I don’t think that candidate exists in the GOP today. No way the other GOP candidates could do better than Romney. About the only meme that persists that shouldn’t is Romney is some kind of moderate in extremist’s clothing when I think he’s much more comfortable being a right wing ideologue that the candidate he was in MA. But who really knows with him because he won’t tell us anything about himself.

AdLib : I think that even if the Repubs had a great candidate, Obama would still be competitive but he might be in Romney’s position, being down a bit and needing to pull out a win by Nov. No changing that Obama is very liked, would still be the case if Jeb Bush was the nom for the GOP. But I wouldn’t be as confident about Obama if a reasonable Repub was running against him. Obama was very beatable this year because of the economy. The Repubs are snatching defeat from the jaws of possible vistory.

MurphTheSurf3 : KQ and AL…spoke with a GOP friend today and I just remember how ticked off he was that Romney was vacationing the week after the RNC….and the shots of him spinning around in a luxury cruiser really ground him down…

KQµårk 死神 : That really has to be the only reason AdLib because like you said it’s hurting not helping them.

KQµårk 死神 : The GOP has become so steeped in lies, negativity and hate now I really think if they lose this election that’s the reason why. If they had a candidate who showed a smidgen of practicality and positivity they would be ahead by a wide margin. But they just are not capable of that anymore.

AdLib : And Romney has to rely on that lying ad campaign…becau se what else does he have to campaign on? He doesn’t want to talk about Bain, his taxes, Mormonism, Massachusetts, Romneycare, the Ryan Budget, ending Medicare as we know it, on and on. Really, it’s all he’s got and now that it’s been so exposed as a lie…all he can do is keep hoping some low info voters will be fooled.

AdLib : KQ – My thinking is similar to what Clinton said. If people become aware that it is a lie, each time they see those ads, it will be a commercial for Obama because people will be reminded repeatedly of what a liar Romney is.

AdLib : KQ – I do think that the huge MSM pushback against Ryan for his huge lies and dishonesty was a slam heard round the nation. Even indies who don’t watch cable news heard about Ryan being a liar. Two GOPs in a pod.

KQµårk 死神 : Yet they keep using the lie which again is political malpractice by the Romney campaign. There is simply nothing more they can get out of that lie now and they can’t help themselves.

AdLib : Murph – Not to mention, Obama was the only mixed race child whose mother had to go on Welfare. That’s pretty incredible, from Welfare to Work…in the White House!

KQµårk 死神 : Oh absolutely AdLib that was a speech right out of Faux News. The problem is most people don’t watch Faux News even if they think they do.

AdLib : KQ – I think it’s part of the Repub bubble. “Everyone around us is stealing and isn’t getting caught, you can steal too and of course you won’t get caught!” In their bubble, lying is just sensible strategy because the ends always justify the means.

KQµårk 死神 : I knew that you would my brother.

MurphTheSurf3 : AL Maher showed three childhood photos in his show tonight…one of Ryan, one of Romney, one of Obama…one mansion, one upper middle class home, and one cottage. Guess which one was the biggest step up to the Oval Office.

KQµårk 死神 : It’s like when a football team gives a terrible performance AdLib sometimes they get mired in their own newspaper clippings. Remember when the Eagles were the ‘dream team’ last year.

AdLib : KQ – Goo-goo-ga-joob!

AdLib : Murph – That’s what I was hoping. He comes off as a snotty little brat, is a career politician with no meaningful experience in the real world and grew up in wealth. How do regular people who are Repubs relate to that?

KQµårk 死神 : AdLib I am the Walrus.

KQµårk 死神 : AdLib I’ve never seen a politician so thoroughly throw themselves under the bus like that before. I think it was pure hubris and naivete for Ryan to think he could get away with lying that much.

AdLib : Does Ryan really have any credibility anymore? If he does, won’t Biden pound it out of him in the debate?

MurphTheSurf3 : AL gets little respect in my neck of the woods- he comes off as a young smart ass to the farmers and blue collar guys in my neck of the woods.

AdLib : KQ – Me, myself, I, you, him and that other guy?

AdLib : Murph – I wonder, does anyone other than RW Repubs give Ryan any credibility to anything he says anymore after his lie-filled speech?

KQµårk 死神 : Who’s this we you speak of

MurphTheSurf3 : AL good catch…he does go on to say the President but I think he is trying to correct and it will not ork.

AdLib : KQ – Then maybe we need to write such an article for The Planet?

KQµårk 死神 : That was one of the stupid reasons for picking Ryan. Romney can’t even fully attack Washington now because Ryan voted for all the bad things that got us here.

AdLib : Murph, I saw that clip and it’s even worse, he blamed “the leadership in Washington”…h e’s part of the leadership in Washington as is Boehner and Cantor!

KQµårk 死神 : Exactly AdLib unfortunately I only saw one article that really put it in those terms.

KQµårk 死神 : If people thought the recriminations flew after the McCain lose wait if Romney loses. He’s a very very poor loser and the moderates and baggers will have a full on war. We gotta remember the only election Romney ever won was at the height of the GOP brand in 2002 after 911 and before Iraq.

MurphTheSurf3 : AL….Ryan today said that “Washington is at fault” a slip on his part but I expect the Dems to use it to make your point.

AdLib : KQ – I learned that many years ago, when someone who’s nice to you is horrible to someone else, it means they are horrible and will eventually turn that horribleness on you because, as you point out with the frog and scorpion, it is a part of their nature.

AdLib : KQ – The whole jobs figures thing is BS anyway and should be exposed as that. Who was in charge when the economy was sabotaged and all the jobs were caused to be lost? Repubs. Who’s been blocking every jobs plan in DC? Repubs. How is this Obama’s fault? Why should the numbers be laid at his feet and not the Repubs?

KQµårk 死神 : Well that’s why you don’t trust a liar too because when they are lying about someone behind their back they could be lying about you behind your back.

MurphTheSurf3 : AL and KQ…truth…gre at NYT article.

KQµårk 死神 : Yup Murph they are frogs that expected the scorpion Walker not to behave like a scorpion.

AdLib : Murph – That’s the pitfall of supporting a hater, you may applaud when they’re hting someone you don’t like but when they eventually turn their gaze on you, you really shouldn’t be so surprised.

KQµårk 死神 : The New York Times just published a great article why Romney and the GOP should not be rewarded for their obstruction and bad policies despite the jobs figures. «link»

AdLib : The point is, the closer we get to the election, the less time for a FOP endorsement to make much of a difference.

MurphTheSurf3 : KQ…Walker is launching another initiative in Wi to do just as you say and the police who backed him are stunned. Stupid idiots.

KQµårk 死神 : Murph the veteran cops are not happy GOP governors are attacking their pensions and healthcare either though they tend to vote against their interests more than the young.

MurphTheSurf3 : KQ…I know something about the FOP not endorsing. There is huge battle going on. MANY of the younger members have threatened a coup because of how many cuts have been made in police forces across the country. I think this non-endorsement is a holding action….I think it might not hold.

AdLib : KQ – Cops have the layoff thing and the anti-union thing to alienate them from Romney and the GOP.

AdLib : KQ – And since indie voters dislike negative and mean campaigning…an d that’s all Romney has left…might not the indie vote for Obama be stronger and stronger as they see more of the hateful, negative Romney/SuperPAC campaigns?

KQµårk 死神 : I think cops are getting pissed at all the GOP governor layoffs as well.

KQµårk 死神 : The spread among independents is what struck me AdLib. It means Romney has made no inroads in attracting the people who want an alternative vote.

AdLib : Murph – Very interesting! Since the GOP and ROmney represent corporations, maybe we have the benefit of “The enemy of my enemy is my friend” votes?

KQµårk 死神 : Sue this elect might just boil down to those two facts.

AdLib : KQ – Wow! Those are some pretty amazing numbers!!! I know there is no way Romney will get close to Obama on likability but that big a disparity? Great news! And consider how that will impact the margin for Obama with women, Latinos and young voters. Add on elderly who are afraid of Ryan’s budget and the military who don’t like Romney slighting them. Two big Repub demos could have big defections for Obama.

KQµårk 死神 : I saw for the first time in 98 years the fraternal order of police are not endorsing. Remember cops are solidly conservative and backed McCain and Bush twice.

SueInCa : bin Laden is dead and GM is alive.

KQµårk 死神 : I hope I can help too. In the next couple month we plan to buy a car too and this time it’s gonna be an American car since they have come such a long way.

AdLib : Murph – Have tonight’s Daily Show and Maher on Tivo for later, a little dessert after a sumptuous Vox Pop supper!

SueInCa : Murph and I bet they are right

MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…one thing, in support of your scenario, that I am hearing said under their breaths in my rural red-dom is “I bet Mansanto backs Mitt.” Farmers HATE Mansanto.

AdLib : KQ – I’m with you on that, I think that in the end, OH just won’t tilt enough to go for Romney, with an improving economy, his main line of BS doesn’t work with them and I have no doubt, Obama and the Dems will blanket the state from now until Nov with “Let Detroit (and the auto industry) go bankrupt!”

KQµårk 死神 : AdLib I think you will be proven right. This election will come down to likeability and with numbers like these from the Reuters Ipsos poll Romney is doomed. “Asked who was the more likable candidate, 52 percent of registered voters surveyed favored Obama compared to 29 percent for Romney. Among independents, Obama enjoyed a likability advantage of 50 percent to 22 percent for Romney.”

SueInCa : Murph because she was one of the ones beating up on Obama so bad. She is sometimes downright rude.

SueInCa : Thanks Adlib I have known her for 45 years and her daughter since birth of course

MurphTheSurf3 : SIDENOTE…Watch ing Real Time and am so impressed, as I always am, by Katrina vanden Heuvel of The Nation. Why doesn’t she get more attention? So much insight said so well.

SueInCa : Climate change is a hoax. did anyone hear how the South Dakota Legislature wanted to handle it in schoolrooms?

AdLib : Sue – Sorry to hear that.

AdLib : Night Funk. That’s non-existent Climate Change for ya!

SueInCa : Was the message more effective from the DNC or RNC. I think DNC hands down.

AdLib : Murph – Consider this though. Even if it is split 47% between Dems and Repubs…if Obama’s election starts to appear inevitable, that will depress Repub voter turnout and he could win by a bigger than anticipated margin. Repubs already have no passion for Romney, they’re already holding their noses to vote for him…if it begins to look moot…many will stay home.

KQµårk 死神 : I know Ohio numbers are a bit closer now but I never see Romney winning Ohio. They know who saved the auto industry and that’s the reason why Ohio’s unemployment rate is lower than much of the US. No Repug can win without OH even if they do win FL.

SueInCa : Hey all. Sounds like a good discussion. Been on the phone with a friend her daughter is having a real tough time battling colon cancer. Night Kes and hey funk nightto you 2

MurphTheSurf3 : Bye Funk…see you at the Other Place..

AdLib : Night Kes, sleep well!

AdLib : Hey Sue!!!

KQµårk 死神 : Wow funk sleep well.

SueInCa : right there with you BFF

AdLib : Funk – So true and if Obama appears to be a sure thing, a lot of discouraged Repubs stay home…and he wins bigger.

kesmarn : Will do, BFF! Meanwhile I’ll have sweet dreams of all those Koch millions going down the tubes in a Romney defeat…

funksands : Folks I gotta go. Good seeing you, brief as it was. Have a good weekend. Celebrating 50 straight days with no rain here. Little weird.

KQµårk 死神 : Of course the MSM doesn’t talk about it much Murph because they know that doesn’t fit into a tight race meme. They are younger women as well.

SueInCa : We will catch up later BFF

AdLib : Kes – It has been shown that neg advertising eventually boomerangs back on the advertiser and their candidate. Think about how all of Romney’s neg ads in the GOP primary hammered his likability to the bottom…it’s still never recovered from that.

kesmarn : Ooooh! BFF! We’re passing each other in the doorway! Wish I could stay!

MurphTheSurf3 : Good night to Kes and Sabreen. Interesting discussion.

kesmarn : Wow…I was going to keep it short tonight and it’s going on midnight, friends. I’m afraid I’ll have to say goodnight to all. Working weekend.

SueInCa : Hi everyone thought I would stop by for a bit. The DNC was in the house eh?

MurphTheSurf3 : KQ-+- really? I am sure you are correct…just have not seen it stated so clearly.

AdLib : KQ – That’s an interesting thing to consider. If Romney loses, as I think he will, will the takeaway for the GOP be that they were too extremist and need to come back towards the middle…or they weren’t extreme enough. With Baggers controlling the party but a minority, it would seem to set up a potential civil war in the party. And I’d bet on the Baggers to win because they are the more active and energetic ones in the party. Could a Bagger GOP win in 2016 with an even more pro-racist, pro-Ayn Rand agenda? No way but works for me!

KQµårk 死神 : The good part Murph is that about 55-60% o undecideds are WOMEN.

MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…possible but it appears the we have a permanent 47/47 split leaving the 6 percent called independents who are really mostly the unconnected, the uninformed, the apathetic….wil l they slide one way or another until the last minute? Don’t think so. Now, will there be a GOP sift? That, in my mind, might be possible.

KQµårk 死神 : AdLib despite my moments of doubts. I just have a feeling all along that this election is not going to be that close in the end. Obama won’t win by 6 points again but I have the feeling it will be an electoral landslide.

funksands : Grudging acceptance of voting for Romney can very easily pivot to grudging acceptance of an inevitable Obama victory

kesmarn : G’night, Sabreen!

kesmarn : That doesn’t seem out of the question to me, AL. Weirdly, I wonder if the sh*tstorm of negative ads might be the RW’s undoing. Overkill. The Koch plan may backfire.

AdLib : Night Sabreen!

funksands : Night Sabreen

funksands : Ad, I do. I think it happens right after the first debate. Rock Ridge collapses on itself.

Sabreen60 : Well good folks I’m going to watch a re-run of the War Room with Jennifer Granholm at midnight. I’ve got a couple of things to do first, so I must get off this computer. Take care. I think we had a great week and hope to see you on Twitter and/or back here.

funksands : Kes, I certainly hope so. The further right they go the more they fracture and the smaller they get.

AdLib : Here’s a proposition, do you think it’s possible that all that’s been propping up Romney as competitive could collapse before the election? The MSM’s manipulation to keep it a horse race, SuperPAC ads, voter suppression, on and on, do you think it’s possible that voters finally just turn off of Romney and a snowball effect occurs? Could Obama win in a landslide because people finally just give up on trying to see Romney as a viable alternative?

KQµårk 死神 : Politico is just HP with a little rightward slant instead of leftward. They are all just opportunists and hypocrites.

kesmarn : A friend said today that she has heard that “if” (when) Romney loses, the right will interpret the loss as being due to the fact that Romney was not conservative ENOUGH, and their next candidate will be even FURTHER to the right. Oh, brother…

MurphTheSurf3 : Funk Sands…True the Vote is another example of Orwellian strategy…War is Peace….doubles peak.

funksands : They describe themselves as “Voting Vigilantes”

KQµårk 死神 : I think moderate Republicans are really starting to get tired of living in fear of their lunatic fringe base and they would not mind if Romney loses by trying to bend to the right like a divi divi tree.

MurphTheSurf3 : Sabreen- like your interpretation a lot. “You’re the Man” indeed. Yes, I am watching Real Time right now…Politico makes me crazy with its “mystery sources” I am sure there is a rivalry of some sort- often is between powerful people….but there is also respect.

AdLib : KQ – Yep, I too was surprised by Brooks turn at humor on Romney. I think there’s a crack in the glacier that Repubs are balanced on and they know it, they can see the possibility of a landslide turning against Romney that takes them all down with him.

KQµårk 死神 : Sabreen I think allot of that is a made up media narrative that pretty much ended fully when he made Hillary SoS. I mean Clinton is really close to very few people because of his ego anyway.

funksands : There’s a good piece on them in Salon. Very troubling group. «link»

AdLib : Funk – I think it was a humor-inspired move by Clinton to bow to Obama, acknowledging him as our leader in a playful way.

kesmarn : That sounds like code for Jim Crow, funk.

funksands : Kes: “True the Vote has three main focuses: policing new voter registrations and winnowing existing voter rolls; training polling place watchers to spot and protest all kinds of slights that undermine voting; and filing suits to prompt states and counties to purge voter rolls.” – Stephen Rosenfeld

KQµårk 死神 : I think that may be generally true AdLib but some people are motivated by desperation as well.

AdLib : KQ – Yep, Romney has run his campaign and the RNC…how is he looking as a smart leader at this point? He lies and attacks facts as partisan things…how is he looking as a trustworthy leader? He discards any concern for our military who give their lives for him to be able to hide his money from taxes….how is he looking as a human being?

Sabreen60 : Murph, I don’t know. If I had to guess (and I do) it would be Clinton is saying ‘you’re the man’- acknowledging that PBO is the President and understands that. You know, I turned on Bill Maher briefly and the co-founder of Politico was on saying that Former Pres. Clinton & Pres. Obama don’t like each other. When asked how he knew this he gave some lame word salad that suggested “sources” had said so.

kesmarn : I saw that column, KQ. It was funny. It surprised me a little too.

KQµårk 死神 : Even though Brooks’ column about Romney was intentional snarky last week and quite funny. I think Brooks was getting allot off his chest too.

kesmarn : Haven’t heard of them, funk.

kesmarn : The Repubs I know are giving him — at best — a “duty” vote. No enthusiasm.

funksands : Has anyone been following the “True the Vote” group?

funksands : I’m sure it was Murph. It still worked.

AdLib : KQ – The thing is, making it sound like the other guy is going to win discourages your base typically, it doesn’t energize them. Promoting the neck and neck race motivates or that the other is gaining or getting ahead…but saying that the other party has won just sucks the energy out of opponents. Imagine if many on the Left were telling us, “It’s as good as over, Obama can’t win this election.” Wouldn’t that discourage you?

MurphTheSurf3 : funk…I don’t see how Clinton would have been surpised. Everyone knew Obama was there…I think this was a studied gesture by Clinton…

funksands : Ad, I still think the apathy for Romney will be the deciding factor on election day. Conservative just can’t work up enough energy to come out for the guy

kesmarn : And his “strategery” seems to consist in “say whatever it takes to get elected,” and not much more.

funksands : Murph, it looked like Clinton was merely surprised and bent his head down to laugh.

KQµårk 死神 : Unlike Bush I think Romney is his own biggest political strategist too.

kesmarn : Interesting link, KQ. First line: “I thought the Republican convention went very poorly.” This from a conservative…

KQµårk 死神 : Oh exactly AdLib it just builds on that meme and reinforces Romney’s stupidity. If a candidate can’t even run a campaign they should never be president because there are so many skills that overlap with running a campaign and running a country.

kesmarn : KQ, moderate conservatives seem very deflated these days. David Brooks looks tired and defeated. In part, by his own party’s silliness, I think.

AdLib : Kes – As I mentioned, only apathy really stands in our way of victory. As long as we fight hard, we will win.

MurphTheSurf3 : Sabreen- what did you take that bow to mean?

KQµårk 死神 : Kes I think that number is a little optimistic but I even saw a moderate conservative write a column today that said Obama has the election in the bag, but of course he could be trying to just piss of the right wing base. «link»

AdLib : KQ – Which only makes his surrogates sound as suspect as Romney, that they are all hiding everything and untrustworthy. I mean, do they think anyone’s convinced into supporting Romney by witnessing this slippery evasiveness? That’s what works on undecided voters? Nope.

kesmarn : I liked the bow, Murph. The elder passing the torch.

MurphTheSurf3 : ALL or ANY…did you notice what Clinton did when Obama came out applauding him…..he turned and….BOWED…. partly accepting the President’s applause…and, I think, partly in obeisance to the current holder of the Presidency. I was stunned.

AdLib : Kes – I’ve been posting snapshots of Silver’s predictions, last I remember it was around 73% so this is quite a sizable jump…no doubt the DNC bounce had a little to do with that!

kesmarn : They often “misunderestima te” their adversaries, too, AL.

AdLib : Kes – Snakes that dumb may be cunning but they can’t spell it. They may be able to sneak up and strike an unsuspecting victim but they don’t know whether it’s “Fool me twice” or “We won’t be fooled again!”

kesmarn : And I will post the usual caveat about over-confidence. ..

KQµårk 死神 : The funny part about Romney being such a control freak and such an idiot, he’s put his surrogates on such a short leash that they are starting to sound like mafia king pins testifying in front of Congress. With all there evasive and non-answers they might as well be taking the 5th so they don’t incriminate themselves or their Don Romney.

MurphTheSurf3 : KES! Nate did! WoW oh WoW!

kesmarn : Nate Silver gave 78% probability of an Obama victory today.

AdLib : So, with many states having their voter ID and registration laws blocked, with Obama and the DNC kicking the ass of Romney and the RNC and with Romney and Ryan digging deeper holes with their lies and insults of the military and the elderly…I won’t say they can’t win but I think it would take a lot of apathy and bad luck for Obama for them to beat him.

funksands : Ad, I agree. Once we start drafting for and paying for our wars, they’ll much less popular/easily forgotten

funksands : Murph, I saw that, it was a heart-wrencher

MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib….that video featuring the military was fantastic from first to last and the woman reading the letter with a picture of her son with his purple heart and medal of valour all framed touched me deeply. The letter exists in several forms- one a letter/poem from a girl whose boyfriend goes to Vietnam and does not come back. Same structure.

kesmarn : Joan Chittester is another nun with a great sense of social awareness. They really are on a mission (literally) these days. They don’t like Ryan’s hypocrisy, and they’re not too happy with the bishops either.

AdLib : Kes – Absolutely, a snake can be cunning but it can’t react to a terrorist attack smartly.

AdLib : Very powerful stuff, Murph. Wow. Did you see the video with the woman who read the poem she wrote to her son who was killed? That was so moving. Americans really need to be reminded that real life human beings who live in their neighborhoods are dying in Afghanistan, we are at war. As has been suggested, bring back the scare of the draft and people will show a lot more concern for the military and peace.

KQµårk 死神 : I refuse to defend Romney’s intelligence anymore. He just too dumb most of the time.

MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib, Kes and KQ….Simone Campbell is a Sister of Social Service who have been at the forefront of social justice since they were founded in the 1950’s. Never ran schools, always were on the streets helping out the poor, representing the ill used, and standing up for those who oppressed. Like that group a lot. Never wore an old style habit….dressed like professional women of the day.

kesmarn : I learned with Dubya that “smart” and “cunning” are two totally different things.

AdLib : KQ – BTW, I stand by my claim, Mitt is an idiot.

AdLib : KQ – Exactly! Seemed like a Palin-esque gaffe (“It demeans you to talk about me.”) where he said that the troops aren’t even important enough to be on his list! WTF? Thank you Mitt the Twit!

kesmarn : They could make AlQuaeda cry like little girls, KQ.

MurphTheSurf3 : KQ and Ad Lib….I was live streaming the convention via an Obama campaign connection….a number of powerful moments were not carried on network or cable/satellite. One was of a 15 year old whose dad was a specialist and deployed three times to Iraq and twice to Afghanistan. He told the audience that it wasn’t until he was 12 that he realize his dad might say goodbye one night just before deployment and not come back. He personally thank Obama for keeping his promise and ending Iraq. He closed by saying that when his dad came home for good a year and a half ago for good, for the first three weeks he set his alarm for midnight every night so he could pop his head into his parents’ room and make sure he was still there. The young man looked up, tears in his eyes and said…”just like he used to do when I was little…and still does to make sure I got home on time…..” Really touching.

KQµårk 死神 : Ouch Kes you bring back bad memories of my early education in Catholic school. Those bloody penguins are murder.

AdLib : Sabreen – Yes, I thought that was very powerful, to have Sister Simone representing the Nuns on the Bus and many other Catholics, condemning the anti-Christian agenda of Ryan’s budget. It could and should have a real impact.

Sabreen60 : I saw that AL. He made it worst as per usual. He doesn’t know when to stop digging.

kesmarn : Yes, Sabreen! That smirky little altar boy Ryan got a smack-down from SISTER SIMONE! Right across the knuckles.

KQµårk 死神 : AdLib that made things just worse because it implies two negative things. First he thinks mentioning the people who serve in war is part of a laundry list AND not an important part of it.

AdLib : KQ – I’m right with you on that. I think that even now, moderate Repubs are growing less motivated about the loser they have (just look at their delegates at the RNC, such disinterest and lack of enthusiasm) and as he gets hammered in debates and the public sours on him more and more, they will just stay home in droves.

kesmarn : I saw that too, AL. He just can’t stop saying stupid stuff. I think the only thing that matters to him is money and the troops just aren’t on his radar because he can’t make a buck off of them.

Sabreen60 : It sure didn’t help Ayn Paul Ryan to have Sister Simone at the Convention talking about how immoral his budget is.

KQµårk 死神 : Exactly AdLib he did not shirk service like the Romney boys.

AdLib : Kes – I saw one clip where Romney dismissively says, “I wasn’t going to give a laundry list…” Our military are just a laundry list to him? He is digging a deeper and deeper hole and after all the untrue anti-troops BS the Repubs have thrown at Dems for decades, time for them to get some justifiable anti-military barbs thrown at them.

KQµårk 死神 : Remember why 2000 was so close. Bush had a 2-3 point lead right up to the end but then the revelations about the drunk driving came out and allot of evangelicals stayed at home. I would not be surprised if GOP turnout was lower than people expect.

AdLib : Murph – Yep, I like Beau Biden a lot and he’s earned the respect he should be given, he’s walked the walk.

KQµårk 死神 : I think that gaffe will haunt Romney the most. You know Republicans like Murph was describing hated that Romney did not mention the troops in Afghanistan. It’s almost as bad as not mentioning tax cuts FFS.

kesmarn : I think it deserves wide exposure, friends.

AdLib : Kes , I too am going to post it here and tweet it out.

kesmarn : When Romney was confronted about not mentioning the troops, his answer was “You have to talk about what’s important…” GASP.

MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib….Biden’s son, the AG from Delaware has been pusing the cuts to Vets without let up. He cornered a RNC guy on Morning Joe two days ago.

AdLib : Kes – Exactly, which is why, putting it in the worst light and comparing it to Baggers during the ACA, still shows Ryan as an unfeeling SOB and a slimy hypocrite!

kesmarn : Thanks for the additional info, Murph. I thought I detected an accent. Poor guy. When he arrived on our shores, he probably believed in freedom of speech.

AdLib : KQ – And though it’s low hanging fruit, hammering Romney on not caring about our military by not even mentioning them, the kind of game they tried to play on the Dems about God and Jerusalem, is a killer play. Add to that his wanting to slash veterans’ benefits and their SS and you paint the picture of…wait for it…a Repub who hates our troops!!!

MurphTheSurf3 : Kes…watched the video and went to the bio of the man taken down. I am archiving this and will be using it. Tom Nielsen, originally from Denmark, immigrated to America in pursuit of his piece of the American Dream and became a citizen more than 50 years ago. He speaks with a slight Danish accent but has worked in America all his adult life, paying his share into the system. He is a retired union plumber and lives in the small town of Kenosha, Wisconsin. Congressman Ryan is his representative and having heard rhetoric that demonized unions and speaks of his retirement benefits as “entitlements”,

kesmarn : Ryan’s remark, I mean.

kesmarn : Yes,AL. And the older guy was just trying to make a point, not assault the candidate. That remark was just pure mean snark.

KQµårk 死神 : I think Ann Romney has become a huge disadvantage for Romney. When she says she can’t answer questions over and over again she sounds like a Stepford Wife.

AdLib : Kes – Just watched the video…damn! How many Baggers do you remember being grabbed and brought down during the ACA town halls?! Yes, he was threatening in the way he yelled so loud but I saw plenty of Baggers applauded by Ryan for doing the same thing, not thrown to the ground and arrested!

kesmarn : I wish they’d have a First Lady vs. Wannabe debate. Michelle would crush Ann. As in, about 7 grade levels difference.

KQµårk 死神 : Agreed AdLib. Romney has left himself so vulnerable with the shite campaign he has run. Last night Obama’s most effect one liners were all a result of Romney’s unforced errors. I know it’s a speech but Obama did not forget what Romney said during the campaign at all.

AdLib : Especially with that phony laugh of his!

KQµårk 死神 : I think if a moderator does show favoritism to one candidate over another it usual hurts the candidate they favor.

AdLib : My theory about how to beat Romney in debates is just to keep cornering him on his lies, inexperience and details about the GOP plans. He doesn’t want to answer any of that and after a while, all of his dodging will come off as weak and slimy.

AdLib : Sabreen, I expect Crowley to do her best to shield Romney and attack Obama so moderators definitely make a difference but I do think Obama will be prepared to turn to Romney and corner him anyway.

KQµårk 死神 : AdLib

MurphTheSurf3 : Kes….I am from Missouri and know Emmanuel- one of the truly great men. His staff jokes about my calls to his office in Kansas City – they recognize my voice- I get very enthused about him and what he has to say.

Sabreen60 : How much influence will the debate moderators have over the quality of the debates? If Candy Crowley conducts the debate the way she shills for Repubs on CNN, then we may have a problem.

AdLib : Kes – Haven’t seen that video but wow! That should be pushed to go viral! What a heartless SOB!

KQµårk 死神 : Kes Ryan is a condescending little piece of shite and it shows.

AdLib : Funk – I’m among those excited to see the debates. I wouldn’t recommend promoting that Romney will be crushed but there is one inescapable problem for Romney in a debate…he doesn’t want to talk about himself or the GOP. Not the lies they’ve based their whole campaign on nor their plans to destroy the 99%. That is a massive Achilles Heel in reverse, all of Romney is vulnerable except maybe his heel which his Magic Underwear has slipped down around as his knees quake.

kesmarn : I’ll try to track it down, Murph. Be right back.

MurphTheSurf3 : Kes…where is that Paul Ryan video….do you know?

KQµårk 死神 : Sabreen to me John Lewis had one of the most powerful speeches as well. I thought all the Dems did a great job putting together a masterful full cast drama of why Obama should be reelected.

MurphTheSurf3 : Sabreen. I was in Denver in 2008 as part of an Obama organizing team. It was great, but I have friends who were there then and were in NC for this year’s experience. They agree with you….several are old hands like me and have been to several. By far the best. You know there is a report today that corporate control of the convention was at the bare minimum for the first time in many, many years and that gave the DNC, ala Schultz and company, the freedom to create a People’s COnvention.

kesmarn : Just saw a pretty damaging bit of video starring Paul Ryan. At one of his town halls, a 71 year old guy protested about Ryan’s plans to cut SS/Medicare, and he was taken down by security. As they hauled him off, Ryan “quipped”: “I hope he remembered to take his blood pressure medication today.” The audience giggled along with him. Looked realllly bad. And it was.

KQµårk 死神 : It’s also not a good idea for Romney to look so blissful when people are hurting. He acted like he won the lottery today.

AdLib : Hey Sabreen!

AdLib : Murph – Very interesting. Just looking at the RNC crowd, I saw none of this alleged enthusiasm superiority the MSM keeps pushing. The way it looks to me, Baggers are enthusiastic but moderate Repubs are not and they are less likely to vote. That’s a lot more Repubs that I think won’t vote for Romney or at all than the “experts” recognize.

KQµårk 死神 : Exactly and today I really saw that AdLib there was allot of meh out there about these numbers.

kesmarn : When you contrast just the visuals of — say — Gabby Giffords vs Clint Eastwood. Total one-eighty.

AdLib : KQ – I really think people put far too much focus on these monthly numbers. IMO, they don’t matter at all right now. Voters aren’t going to make a choice on the marginal difference in jobs reports this month and next month, that’s an insider thing most don’t care about. Indie voters will be looking at Obama vs. Romney, who they believe and trust and I think Obama has gone a long way to building a hard-to-beat lead on that.

KQµårk 死神 : Since I didn’t have to pay a lawyer as much as 6% I can give Obama a percent or so no problem.

MurphTheSurf3 : Funk….you are right. I do love it. Christie as Jabba the Hutt.

KQµårk 死神 : It’s a Quid Pro Quo of some sort as well because I know the Obama administration intervened in states like GA that were dragging their feet with SS claims.

funksands : Hi Ad.

Sabreen60 : I need an “edit” button.

kesmarn : She was wild, Sabreen! I never saw her so amped when she was the gov of Michigan! I love Emanuel Cleaver and Julian Castro, too.

funksands : First debate on October 3rd. The day every Republican fears. At the ones in my neck of the woods really think Romney is going to get his clock cleaned.

AdLib : Hey Funk!

KQµårk 死神 : Murph voting against someone can only take you so far. Dems are really flipping the enthusiasm thingy now.

AdLib : KQ – I know you’ll but your money where your principles are, unlike a certain Repub Presidential nominee. At the same time, be thoughtful about protecting what you get so it lasts for a very long time.

Sabreen60 : I’ve seen a few conventions and IMO this was the best. Debbie Wasserman-Schult z and her team were awesome. I didn’t here one bad speech. A few were a little flat, but no one was off message. Gov Jennifer Granholm rocked the house, IMO.

KQµårk 死神 : Fear also works when you have a defined enemy. As much as the GOP wants to divide this country it’s still only 40% of the country that see Obama as anything to be fearful of.

MurphTheSurf3 : What is turning SOME GOP our way (or at least into neutral). Met a supervising are manager of three H H Gregg Appliance stores today. His quote: “I am GOP all the way, and I don’t want to vote for Obama. But more and more it seems to me that Romney is not the man I want in the White House. He’s out for the big guys and not guys like me and the people who work for me, and I think he is a lightweight in anything outside of Private Equity.” Hmmmmm.

AdLib : Kes – So true and that is the powerful undercurrent of the DNC I think. People were happy and hopeful there instead of angry and spouting doom and gloom at the RNC. People are fear-weary and Obama and the DNC gave them permission to be disappointed but hopeful too…and not fearful.

AdLib : Murph – People are indeed susceptible to fear but the key is, they don’t want to be fearful. I think Obama and the Dems have now given voters a clearer choice to move forward with a gradually improving future that doesn’t require fear and those that aren’t GOP fear addicts, will choose that more often than fear.

KQµårk 死神 : I think so too AdLib. I think the only thing that could really hurt now is a negative job growth number and that’s probably not going to happen.

funksands : Evening everybody

kesmarn : AL, that was one of Clinton’s strongest statements. Four more years, and “I promise you, you will feel it.”

AdLib : Kes – Very cool news! Hope Obama and Dems keep up the attack on Vouchercare. AND…on the slashing of Medicaid destroying Medicare even earlier!

KQµårk 死神 : Well I know when I finally get my back SS pay I’m gonna give Obama a fuck ton of money. This whole notion that a man who wants to bring us forward is being blocked by Neanderthals is really pissing me off.

kesmarn : I think people are sick of fear, Murph. They’ve been eating/drinking/ sleeping it for too long. They’re hungry for the Dem message.

AdLib : KQ – I think that the economy is already baked into peoples’ opinions now, the month to month job reports get the pudnuts whipped up in a fury but they are pretty irrelevant to people in the real world. They go on feelings and I think the DNC went a long way to saying that things are getting better but slowly and soon, they will feel it.

kesmarn : HAHA! I loved it when that judge said he had to appear in person. Take that, Mr. Arrogant J. Kasich!

KQµårk 死神 : Exactly AdLib the SoS of Ohio was facing jail time.

MurphTheSurf3 : Romney’s chances all depend on Fear. Fear. Deep, pervasive, overwhelming fear. THEY are taking over. THEY are stealing OUR America. There are more and more of THEM every day and fewer and fewer of US. If one works on the fear turning it toward anger, and the anger toward hate, the truth has little chance of getting through. Fear is the base upon which effective propaganda builds. If you have the means, the billionaire money; the method, propaganda mills using the money to generate messages that play into the fear, affirm the animosity, and confirm the world view; the platform, a TV network, control of a lot of the messaging on the internet, and talk radio; THEN YOU STAND A VERY GOOD CHANCE OF SUCCEEDING. Therein lies my worry and anxiety.

AdLib : Kes – Your SoS was running scared after the court ordered him to appear and dropped his power play. The point was, he was essentially declaring a restraining order on a court order, he, an SOS, not a judge, and that is massively illegal.

kesmarn : I meant “voucher” thing! Sorry! For Medicare.

kesmarn : Informal poll: a number of my patients have volunteered their opinions on the election. (I never ask.) and they’re running about 3:1 for Obama! The vouched thing is pissing them off.

KQµårk 死神 : I’m still concerned of course AdLib but I think Obama turned the corner. Even the economic numbers today did not seem to have that much impact because people know the economy is bad. It’s like the fact that in 2004 Iraq was a big issue that kind of fizzled out too.

kesmarn : Well, at least in Ohio, the Sec of State was compelled to back down and restore control of voting hours to the local election boards. YAY!! An attempt at voter suppression suppressed!

AdLib : Murph – Easy and likely are two different things though. I think it is likely that Obama will win but it is not necessarily easy, a lot of time, money and energy will be required.

KQµårk 死神 : The crazy part is all these battles have a big part to do with our adversarial culture.

AdLib : So, what do folks here think of Obama’s chances vs. Romney’s chances in light of the conventions? Can repetitive SuperPAC ads change people’s opinion of Obama at this point or are they not able to overcome that threshold?

MurphTheSurf3 : Kes…the GOP troops are highly motivated, very disciplined, supported by a well financed infrastructure, and buttressed by state laws that are cutting their adversaries down to size…there is no easy way to win this at the presidential and congressional and state levels.

kesmarn : It took a while, KQ, but in this Dem county, the courts move much faster. In her case about 9 months.

KQµårk 死神 : Good for her!

AdLib : It ain’t great to have to battle for rights and care we’re supposed to have but it is damn good finally winning them!

kesmarn : I was with a friend through a similar battle. Her lawyer actually had me write a letter in support of her case. She won!

KQµårk 死神 : Kind of like this election. It seems like it’s longer than 2008.

kesmarn : I saw that the RW was trying to spin the jobs stats negatively, AdLib, but it’s tough to argue with a 233 point rise in the Dow on 9/6!

AdLib : Kes – The Obama campaign is well aware of this, they and the Dems have a powerful GOTV on tap for the swing states.

AdLib : Kes – And that’s just as of today, could increase over the week…or reduce.

kesmarn : Murph, I was reading on 538 that getting folks to actually vote (sounds simple) is going to be make-break this time around.

AdLib : Speaking strategically, we do need to really fire up the troops over the next month when little else is going on but ad wars. Then in October, 3 Pres debates and 1 VP debate will help carry the momentum I think to election day.

MurphTheSurf3 : Just sent the message I have been passing on all day. Feel free to use this in any way you want and to edit freely. No credit necessary. It has gotten some high fives.

AdLib : Very good advice there, Murph.

AdLib : Kes, of course they’re dissing his speech as insufficient, fact and detail challenged, etc. All are falling on deaf ears an a 7% bump so far for Obama!

MurphTheSurf3 : IF YOU WANT MORE FROM THE CONVENTION THAN A SHORT BUZZ this is what needs to be done Lots of Dems and Independent but Dem Leaning folks are all abuzz over the fantastic Democratic National Convention. They have good reason to be happy. It was natural, free spirited, authentic, well run, from the heart, brimming with messages for the middle and lower classes, well run, inspiring, honest, convincing, well run. Did I say well run? You get the point. I loved it to. But, what the GOP is hoping is that we who often vote democrat, and who are also notoriously unfocused and undisciplined, will high five each other and then…….go on as if nothing important is about to happen. IF YOU WANT THE DNC TO COUNT FOR SOMETHING HERE IS WHAT I SUGGEST NEEDS TO BE DONE: 1) Remind yourself, and all your fellow democrat voting associates that a Romney Presidency and a GOP Congress WILL BE AN UNMITIGATED DISASTER and one form which we will have a very hard recovering. He will undo OBAMACARE. He will nominate more SCALIAS to the Supreme Court. He will be aggressive in his foreign policy which does mean WAR. He will sign bills that will CUT TAXES FOR THE WEALTHIEST BENEFITING THEM enormously and hardly benefiting the rest of us at all. 2) Become an expert on your state’s voting laws. Who can vote, what is needed to vote, when can you vote and how. AND make sure everyone you know who leans Democrat knows them too. 3) Learn the Talking Points. Whatever the hot issues are learn how to counter them, simply, directly, kindly and specifically. DO NOT LET LIES PASS UNCHALLENGED. Remember that many reasonable Republicans (and there are some) are very uncomfortable with Romney. Play on that. 4) Give to the campaigns. Any of them. DNC, DCCC, DGA, Priority USA, Obama for America, your favorite candidates. Dig deep. Make it a Christmas Present to Yourself. I do not want the Grinch Twins of Romney and Ryan to triumph. 5) Volunteer. You can help out in person and on the phone. You can register people to vote (BUT HURRY). You can walk your district. DO IT WITH A CAMPAIGN. They know what works. 6) PLAN TO BE PART OF THE GET OUT THE VOTE DRIVES AND PLAN TO GIVE A HUGE AMOUNT OF TIME TO THE CAMPAIGNS CLOSE TO THE ELECTIONS. Take time off. It is that important. Your future does depend on it.

kesmarn : Hey, Murph!

AdLib : Hey Murph! Same here!!!

kesmarn : Oooh…what’s their spin!? Been so busy catching up on speeches I missed that I haven’t seen what “they” have to say.