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Harry Reid: Comeback Kid?

For the first time in the better part of the last year, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) has reason for optimism as he looks toward his re-election prospects this fall.

A new poll conducted by Mason-Dixon Polling & Media Research for the Las Vegas Journal shows Reid has pulled into a statistical dead heat with his two most likely Republican challengers this fall: former state party chairwoman Sue Lowden and former state Assemblywoman Sharron Angle.

Reid takes 42 percent to 39 percent for Angle while Lowden stands at 42 percent to 39 percent for Reid. Back in an April Mason-Dixon survey, Lowden held a 47 percent to 37 percent edge over Reid.

Reid's image in the state has also improved over the last six weeks. Back in April, 33 percent of Nevada voters had a favorable impression of him while 54 percent saw him in an unfavorable light. In this poll, Reid's favorable score stood at 37 percent while his unfavorable rating was at 49 percent.

While Democrats are certain to seize on these results to suggest that Reid is on the comeback trail, there are plenty of reasons to take such analysis cum grano salis.

The main one is that Reid appears to be benefiting from the increasingly nasty primary fight between Angle, Lowden and, to a lesser extent, businessman Danny Tarkanian.

Lowden, the one-time clear frontrunner, has struggled mightily to get out from under a self-inflicted wound caused by comments about a health care system based on bartering -- with chickens. (Yes, chickens.)

Combine that gaffe with an increased focus on her brief record as a state legislator -- courtesy of a tough ad from the Club for Growth, which is supporting Angle -- and it's no surprise that the polling shows a genuine drop off for Lowden not just in her head to head matchup with Reid but also in her own favorability ratings.

While Republicans are bashing each other on the television airwaves, Reid is running a trioofads touting the benefits for Nevadans of the health care bill -- a nice politics vs. policy contrast that is likely accruing to his benefit as well.

At issue for Reid is what we have taken to calling the "Corzine conundrum". That is, how does an incumbent who is universally known in his or her state -- not even one percent of Nevada voters said they didn't recognize Reid's name -- and pulling between 37 percent and 43 percent support in hypothetical general election matchups win?

Given those numbers, what is Reid's path to 50 percent plus one? There's really only one: disqualify the Republican nominee.

Reid will certainly have the financial resources to do just that. He ended April with $9.4 million in the bank as compared to $289,000 for Lowden and $120,000 for Angle.

But, disqualifying an opponent is easier said than done -- particularly when there is real skepticism about the messenger. Given that, the most important time in the race may be the first month of the general election. Can Reid define either Lowden, Angle (or maybe even Tarkanian) in such a negative light that they can't recover? And, if not, what does he do next?

Sue Lowden did not say that bartering would be a substitute for a health care system but that it could be done at the margins. Still, she did a poor job of explaining her comment. But, if Harry Reid thinks that this gaffe will have legs to last until November then he is fooling himself. Even if Harry Reid wins, it will doom the chances of his son, Rory, to be elected governor. It is doubtful that Nevadans will elect both Reids and is more likely that both of them will lose. Still, Harry has a lot of money to spend so he may save himself but take down his son in the process.

Senator Reid is surely the comeback kid! To have Republican opponents like Sue Lowden and Sharon Angle suggesting to pay medical bills with chickens and pigs, I sure will have to keep frozen chicken meat in my freezer just in case President Obama's health care does not pay my medical bills.

The Republicans are not only a party of NO, but also oblivious of the times!!!

Pew Research Center- 82% of Americans are following the Gulf story closely- just reported on PBS News Hour......tick, tick, tick-Obama STILL outsourcing the worst ENVIRONMENTAL crisis in our history to the Brits running BP?...time is running out for the Gulf and Obama's first and only term.

Pew Research Center- 82% of Americans are following the Gulf story closely- just reported on PBS News Hour......tick, tick, tick-Obama STILL outsourcing the worst crisis in our history to the Brits running BP?...time is running out for the Gulf and Obama's first and only term.

I believe between the Sestak debacle, the approval and mishandling of the BRITISH petroleum well which is destroying our coast, and the US Backing a UN Resolution hamstringing Israel's nuclear program while allowing the Iranians to continue on spinning their centrifuges, The Obama administration is right where we thought they'd be, just a year or so late.

Hey Mr. President-
Are you commander in chief?
Over the Navy too?
Still funding and staffing SUBMARINES?
Do you think it's worth a few million funding an attempt at using them to close this leak?
Want to try sinking a few dozen barges full of really heavy, large objects over it?
No....I guess this weekend is better spent in Chicago "Brainstorming" over SESTAKgate while our environment goes to hell over a leaking deep sea well approved by your inept administration!

"A small submarine, the bathyscape Trieste, made it to 10,916 meters (35,813 feet) below sea level in the deepest point in the ocean, the Challenger Deep in the Marianas Trench, a few hundred miles east of the Philippines. This part of the ocean is 11,034 m (36,200 ft) deep, so it seems that a submarine can make it as deep as it's theoretically possible to go. The water pressure at this depth is over 1000 atmospheres. Life does exist here, as well as a carpet of diatomaceous material that covers all the ocean floors of the world.

Trieste was manned by two people and funded by the United States Navy."

I don't know why any of you bother reading 37's drool. What a waste of your weekend! He clearly does not work, so is welfare of one kind of another --possibly the parental variety and is lazy and informed by nothing but rightwing hate radio/cable..

"12bb, part of it is that the people who don't want the government to help others are the ones who get cable talk shows. Basically a bunch of multi-millionaires working for multi-billionaires who want to keep their own taxes down. They claim to represent average joes, but there's nothing average joe about them."

Like Rush Limbaugh with his $12 million apartment on Fifth Avenue in Manhattan, with chandeliers copies after the Trianon at Versailles...

This entire discussion about the cleanup, is perhaps missing one crucial point... perhaps everything is being done that can be done. Perhaps we were playing with fire in such a big way that we had no idea what the consequences might be.

This is just what it is going to be like with deep drilling. Nobody knows what to do in a case like this. The best minds in the industry are working on this -- because it is in their interest to do so. But the truth is, they don't know. If you want to cast blame on someone, cast it on those who didn't want to regulate oil companies, who fought regulations for years, who let Big Oil's money make it too easy for Congress to ignore the problem.

I also think Ken Salazar, who was charged with cleaning up Interior, dragged his feet in purging the Bush lobbyist-appointees.

But it's going to be too late for a lot of the Gulf because the damage is done.

The only good thing that can come out of this is stronger government oversight of any current and future drilling programs -- and a call for all of them to present detailed plans for disaster management to a newly strengthed Interior Dept with teeth.

This is the biggest puncture ever to the balloon that industries can be trusted to regulate themselves. They can't, even when it's in their own interests.

Hey Mr. President-
Are you commander in chief?
Over the Navy too?
Still funding and staffing SUBMARINES?
Do you think it's worth a few million funding an attempt at using them to close this leak?
Want to try sinking a few dozen barges full of really heavy, large objects over it?
No....I guess this weekend is better spent in Chicago "Brainstorming" over SESTAKgate while our environment goes to hell over a leaking deep sea well approved by your inept administration!

"Look, Republicans wanted us dead and Bush was doing his best to see that happened."

"Sure, keep trying to paint this as Obama's Katrina. It's not going to stick."

"I wanted to respond to 37th was to illustrate that leaders here are relatively pleased with how Obama has been dealing with the situation."

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Glad to hear everything's coming up roses in LA now that Obama's finally taken charge---40 days into the disaster. I guess we won't be hearing any more fussing and whining out of NO, just praise for how great everything's going.

Now if you can just get rid of that Republican governor who wants you all dead.

"But, disqualifying an opponent is easier said than done -- particularly when there is real skepticism about the messenger."

That is why it is so very fortunate that the Republicans are aggressively disqualifying each other. Go, Tea Party! Go, Club For Growth! Can we add a few Libertarians to the mix as well? Stir well and let boil . . .

We know a massive quantity of oil is out.
But strangely, it is not on the surface.
Seen any oil slicks greater than Exxon Valdez? No? Nothing like it, not even close? Hmmmm.

Posted by: shrink2 | May 30, 2010 9:03 PM | Report abuse

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I'm not so sure. Some of the coverage maps scare the living shtuff out of me. Valdez mean one area heavily oiled. This thing has terrifying implications. I'll go for a meteorological metaphor. Valdez was a tornado. This is a hurricane. Katrina squared. Atlas shrugged. God weeps.

He is right about the specific gravity - but that is WITHOUT the dispersant.

The dispersant does unusual things breaking up the oil - one thing it does do is mix the water in the "chocolate mousse" - which ends up being 30 - 80 % water - and much more likely to be suspended below.

I'm not sure why more oil is not floating - it is definitely the dispersant -

The temperature difference between a mile below which is in the 30s F - and the surface - with all the intermediate currents might be playing a role.

_______________________________

Overall, you are right about that statement - BP wants to limit its liability (however lying about what the situation is out there isn't going to help them much with the claims)

Maybe the fracture between BP and the WH is beginning. Carol Browner, an aide, went on the the Sunday shows saying BP has an incentive to low-ball the estimates. Also, "Browner emphasized steps the government has taken to oversee BP's efforts to stop the leak, noting the administration ordered the company to begin digging two relief wells intended to eventually stop the leak instead of a single one proposed by BP."

Hi, I am from British Petroleum, you know us. We have those sunny green and yellow adverts. Also, the Obama administration has their names and "approval" all over everything we do. We are here to tell you, dispersed means gone, vanished, ceased to exist, non-toxic, never happened. If all that oil you see coming out of the earth is not floating on the water, it does not exist. Thank you.

We know a massive quantity of oil is out.
But strangely, it is not on the surface.
Seen any oil slicks greater than Exxon Valdez? No? Nothing like it, not even close? Hmmmm.

BP is staking out a position: if it is not on the surface, it does not exist.

Time for some smart people to realize what is going on here...

VENICE, La. – BP PLC CEO Tony Hayward on Sunday disputed claims by scientists that large undersea plumes have been set adrift by the Gulf oil spill and said the cleanup fight has narrowed to surface slicks rolling into Louisiana's coastal marshes.
During a tour of a company staging area for cleanup workers, Hayward said BP's sampling showed "no evidence" that oil was suspended in large masses beneath the surface. He didn't elaborate on how the testing was done.

"The oil is on the surface," Hayward said. "Oil has a specific gravity that's about half that of water. It wants to get to the surface because of the difference in specific gravity."

I'm saying something slightly different. Shrink is right that the WH has allied themselves with BP. Meaning, they are a team who TOGETHER are working toward plugging the leak and mitigating the damage. No problem with that. Shrink says, and there is truth to this, that because BP is glad-handing this from a PR point of view, the WH has kind of gone along with rosy estimates and "happy talk".

Shrink says that the WH needs to pull themselves away from the PR spin and just tell it like it is. I guarantee BP will not be standing on the stage when that happens. Their loyalty is to their shareholders, not the American people. That's when the Spill Team will split the sheets and there will be a clear adversarial relationship.

My question is whether that will destroy the Obama administration. If Obama loses the next election, the Republican who takes his place won't do as much for the Gulf as Obama, I wouldn't think.

Well, publicly, I can't see Obama doing but aligning with the people. That seems to be a no-brainer. And I don't think bluster about BP paying for this mess is necessarily mutually exclusive with working with them on this. And remember that the more oil that's lost is more revenue lose by BP and increased cleanup costs, so it behooves them to work quickly to get this done.

Thinking about the WH relationship with BP. If the WH allies themselves with the people, instead of BP, how could that turn out to be anything but adversarial. BP can be relied on to put the best face on the situation.

After all, BP is a corporation. The Board would fire any executive who doesn't protect BP's interests first. That's their job. It's not their job to "tell the truth to the American people". Harsh, but true.

So, if the WH engages in a "tell it like it is" stance, necessarily BP will disagree, spin, shade and nuance the hell out of it.

12bb, part of it is that the people who don't want the government to help others are the ones who get cable talk shows. Basically a bunch of multi-millionaires working for multi-billionaires who want to keep their own taxes down. They claim to represent average joes, but there's nothing average joe about them.

Posted by: DDAWD | May 30, 2010 7:21 PM
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If the cable talk guys were the only problem that would be like 6 out of 117 million. Unfortunately, those 6 people influence maybe 30-40 million voters.

Because I listened to certain talk shows for 5 years, you build up a listening expertise. I can tell who listens to who, just based on their vocabulary.

Anyway, I can't even imagine any of those 6 folks promoting a campaign to help anyone, can you?

12bb, part of it is that the people who don't want the government to help others are the ones who get cable talk shows. Basically a bunch of multi-millionaires working for multi-billionaires who want to keep their own taxes down. They claim to represent average joes, but there's nothing average joe about them.

Going back and rereading your post about the 18 wheelers. That is impressive and unforgettable. I'll retract my skepticism, in the face of your personal experience. Maybe the American people would support a massive rescue plan.

I'm not sure how high the water got at City Hall. It's not too far from the Superdome area which got almost the worst of it as far aw water depth. CH is on the way from the SD to the FQ (which got no flooding), so it wasn't as bad, but I think second floor sounds about right.

Probably Nagin's biggest source of controversy Katrina related was after the hurricane where he was addressing concerns that the city would be overrun with Mexican workers. He promised that New Orleans would remain a chocolate city.

I'm not a huge Nagin fan, actually. I didn't like that he endorsed William Jefferson and he seemed be gaffe prone. But he was such small potatoes in the big picture of Katrina. He was mainly used as a way for people like 37th to deflect blame from Bush.

And think about it, if the general conservative American hated New Orleans so much, do you think Bush's approval ratings would have cratered after Katrina?

Posted by: DDAWD | May 30, 2010 6:54 PM
---------------------------------
I think Americans are incredibly generous, as long as its voluntary. It just seems that as soon as the government gets involved, those wallets zip up tighter than a drum. Some other mentality kicks in. 37th is a perfect example of what I mean. His argument is that people don't have to help "when the houses shouldn't have been there...how stupid is that?". Does that sound like help to you?

But, you are right about Bush's approval ratings. Katrina took a bite, WMD took a bite, and ultimately TARP took a bite out of those ratings. But, I still have to be convinced that actually helping the N.O. people with money would have helped his ratings. Not with his base. Maybe with Democrats.

I hope I'm wrong. I just have this view that Americans talk big, volunteer big, do unbelievably generous things through charity, but seize up like crazy when the government want to help.

Carol Browner is a little out there - now she says she wants to FINE BP based on the amount of oil leaking -

So NOW she is criticizing BP for NOT INCRIMINATING THEMSELVES EVEN MORE.

This is the problem with the environmentalists - are they working with people to SOLVE the environmental problems - OR are they looking to slam industry with fines - thereby DESTROYING ALL COOPERATION.

12bb, to be fair, when we are talking about conservatives not wanting to help NOLA, we are talking politicians and the pricks who follow Glen Beck to a T. After I got out of New Orleans, I spent a few days working at a refugee place in Baton Rouge and it was amazing all the donations we got. Countless 18-wheelers filled with food, water, books, clothes, toys from places like Texas, Arkansas, Kansas, Oklahoma, and all these other conservative bastions.

As much as people like Sarah Palin want to divide us into red America or blue America or real America or fake America, that isn't how we were split up after Katrina. We were split into two groups, but not those groups. We had Americans in need and Americans willing to help. And wow, did they help.

And think about it, if the general conservative American hated New Orleans so much, do you think Bush's approval ratings would have cratered after Katrina?

I agree that Gov. Blanco was responsible for her part. Not so with Nagin who was relatively powerless.

And Blanco would not have won re-election. Her approval ratings tanked and she declined to run for reelection.

As for that other stuff, we both know it's completely made up. Again, this is flyover niggger country to you, so I don't expect you to know much about it.

But anyways, the only reason I wanted to respond to 37th was to illustrate that leaders here are relatively pleased with how Obama has been dealing with the situation. I'll be joining the rest of you in ignoring the guy now.

MMeyers, looks like I'm going to have to tear up that $1000 SarahPAC check, heh.

I know that we're flyover country to people like 37th and his ilk, but after Katrina, despite all the press attention we got, New Orleans was forgotten territory. Even during Katrina. I was in the city. I could see the Superdome from where I was. I know how long it took for help to arrive. And afterwards, we just weren't getting Federal assistance. Look, Republicans wanted us dead and Bush was doing his best to see that happened. But it was such a dramatic turnaround after Obama took office. This place seemed to be flooded with cabinet members and high department officials. From EPA to HHS to Education to Labor. It kind of makes it hard to believe that Obama would suddenly discover his negligent streak just as soon as this explosion occurred, doesn't it? Any idiot knows that the MMS negligence occurred under the Bush watch. If Sean Hannity wants to accuse me of blaming Bush for everything, I think I can still find a way to sleep at night. Bush did what he did with every motherfu cking department. Fill it with people with close ties to the industries they are supposed to be regulating.

And the thing is, people don't buy that this is Obama's Katrina. Perhaps the administration made the wrong decisions, but no one can say that they weren't involved.

12bb, I don't know if an adversarial position with BP is the best. Probably good politics, but we need to get this fixed.

If the outcome of brutal truth telling by the government, despite BP's spin, was the destruction of the Obama presidency, should Obama still do it? There is a possibility that the WH can call for massive aid and be rejected by the people, and thus be blamed totally for the consequences of the gusher. Isn't this what is called an unforced error?

shrink wrote: they (the govt) should get off camera, separate from BP and get together with the people in the Gulf. I repeat, get together with the people in the Gulf.

seconded by ddawd
----------------------------------------
Perhaps, perhaps. If the government took an adversarial role with BP (which, you understand, I'm not opposed to), would that change the dynamics? Only if the government leveled, brutally, with the people and told it how it is. And proposed real solutions, solutions that can only be accompanied by dollars.

If you are right about Americans being willing to help the Gulf folks, that definitely would be the right thing for the government to do. The fact the WH isn't doing that indicates, perhaps, they don't believe quite so much in the willingness of the people. Or, a more cynical take might be that the government is in the pocket of BP.

Please understand, I'm not arguing with you. The Gulf folks are as innocent as it's possible to be and deserve all our help, not just charity, but actual government programs. But, I am a wee bit skeptical that, in the present political climate, that help would be forthcoming if Congress has to vote on it. Look at the help after Katrina--not much, and people yelped about that.

Anyway, I propose an experiment, since we all spend a fair amount of time on this blog. When the conservatives show up, let's all propose just such a truth-telling exercise and a petition for federal help. And see what happens. Not exactly a double blind trial, but it would be interesting to get reaction.

Just to clear up some factual problems: BP started its first relief well around 4/25 and the second by May 17th.
----------------------------

Second Macondo relief well under way

Transocean semi-submersible rig Development Driller II has spud the second relief well planned at the Macondo blowout in the US Gulf of Mexico.

Upstream staff & news wires 17 May 2010 00:28 GMT

BP operations boss Doug Suttles confirmed today that Development Driller II began to spin its bit late Sunday after some delays in getting underway.

The centre said in an update last night that the Development Driller III was lowering its blowout preventer (BOP) to the seabed on Friday after bringing the equipment to the surface late last week for an inspection.

I don't think Americans are categorically opposed to bailouts. The reason TARP is so unpopular isn't just that it was a bailout, but that it was seen as bailing out the people who screwed everything up in the first place.

"Being able to actually mitigate the economic disaster requires something the American people won't tolerate, and that is a massive bailout/assistance, whatever you want to call it."

This is not true, but it is directly on point. The American people are wonderful at helping out people who have suffered disasters. It is one of the things we do best. Sending NO a bunch of crappy trailers, too little too late was an insult to what it is to be American.

We do need to bail each other out. America is not a snake pit, it is a community.

Sure we all despise bailing out rich people from problems they brought on themselves, malingerers, slackers, whiners and we should. But the water people in the gulf did nothing to bring this on themselves.

We all use and abuse coal and oil. Whether or not this had to happen, it is Pech (a German word often translated as either bed luck or fate, but it is more like nemesis).
All of America owns this problem. The boot on the neck of BP meme should have gotten Salazar fired, instead he fired Birnbaum, whose career, I hope, will be bolstered by that action.

The people in the Gulf will not be "bailed out" if all America recognizes how bad this is going to be and how important it is we put a massive effort together to work with the region. So far, it is all stage management, spin and self congratulation.
Obama is not in charge, he can't fix anything, Barak, Lisa and Ken know nothing, they should get off camera, separate from BP and get together with the people in the Gulf. I repeat, get together with the people in the Gulf.

BP is relevant to stopping the plume, but it is already so great, the damage, BP is or will be soon about as relevant as Union Carbide is now in Bhopal, or as relevant as Exxon has been to the daily lives of people in PWS since the last oily animal disappeared from TV, or as relevant as whoever built and managed the reactors at Three Mile Island or Chernobyl.

Nungesser, a Republican, told ABC News that President Obama "told me that we need to communicate."

He said that he told President Obama that after his first visit to the region a few weeks ago, "We got the jack-up boats done cause of you. And you spent more time with us than any other president. But since then, it was a bottleneck. Things weren't getting done. All of it was sitting in the marsh."

Nungesser said the president told him, "'Well you know, if you can't get it done through the chain of command' -- and he's made some changes; we've got a guy on the ground now that can make decisions -- he said, 'you pick up the phone and call the White House. And, if you can't get me on the phone, then you can go blast me.'"

"And I said, 'Well, Mr. President, I didn't want to blast you. I'll blast the Coast Guard for not making BP be accountable.' And I know he is the Coast Guard. So, in a sense, you know, he was right."

Nungesser said that "if things happen like they happened after the last meeting, you won't see me blasting anybody because things happened right after that. And things are happening today. The oil that we showed you is being cleaned up. There's equipment all over the parish and we do have a senior person from the Coast Guard in our office now that can make decisions and can hold BP's feet to the fire, because they are the ones that should be stepping up to the plate."

He concluded: "I think he cares and he's a hands-on guy. I was real impressed."
----------------------------

Sure, keep trying to paint this as Obama's Katrina. It's not going to stick. And the Plaq. Parish Prez is from one of the prominent Republican families around here.

The White House, under withering fire for not pressuring the oil company more forcefully in the 40 days since the oil well blowout that led to the still-gushing spill, is stressing a new take-charge stance, revealing Sunday that it pressured BP into drilling a second relief well, which could stop the flow — in August.

_________________________________

Yea, but then they STOPPED drilling the relief holes to assist in the "top kill" efforts.

It really seems like Obama has NO IDEA what he is doing.

WE HAVE AN INEXPERIENCED GUY WITH A BUNCH OF AFFIRMATIVE ACTION APPOINTEES AROUND HIM.

Just say, “No!” No more “fluff” and “stuff” politicians. Harry Reid doesn’t deserve the senate seat he aptly chose. He took advantage of both those who voted him and Americans throughout this country. He chose to ignore the majority of Americans who emphasized repeatedly to him and the democratic majority to focus on job creation as well as the preservation of jobs and benefits during our nation’s economic downturn. Where are all of the jobs Senator Reid and the democratic majority supposedly created? What happened to all of the funds of the Stimulus Package?

Instead, Senator Reid supported the opposite by voting in favor of the Waxman-Markey Climate Bill which not only included restrictions/limitations of use of energy but increased the energy costs for an average household of four by $2,979/year. One of the biggest travesties of the Waxman-Markey cap and trade Bill is the promotion of outsourcing jobs overseas which would drastically affect our coal mining industries, oil refiners, and natural gas companies. The outsourcing of these jobs and energy producing industries these would result in overall gross domestic loss of $491 billion/year starting in 2012-2035. In my opinion, this bill is pure trash! This isn’t a bill is the antithesis of what America stands for…

Senator Reid helped craft the ridiculously flawed Health Care bill and aided in coercing his fellow democrats in voting in favor of it. This bill actually increases the health care costs by $2.5 trillion dollars, thus increasing the deficit. Senator Reid and the democratic legislators created a bill which is only focused on the symptoms and not the root causes of health care costs/spending. They devised a bill which will penalize employees who don’t offer insurance will pay a hefty fine of $2000.00 for every employee. Senator Reid and the democratic majority also neglected to fix Medicare which is likely to become bankrupt by 2016 and a debt exceeding $38 trillion dollars. Harry Reid and his cohorts resolved to “fix” this problem by cutting more than ½ a trillion dollars funding for Medicare. This list goes on and on….

It’s time to vote public servants in office who care about those they are serving and want to truly make indelible mark on our great country. Our country wants leaders of integrity, morals and character. Americans have witnessed the degradation of those in political power and we are truly ready for a change…

Billy Nungesser, the president of Plaquemines Parish whose frustrations about the federal government response have been featured prominently on TV in the past few weeks, told ABC News that in the private meeting the president had with local leaders here today, President Obama "chewed me out."

___________________________________

Someone try to defend Obama on this one.

When are the democrats going to realize that Obama is INEXPERIENCED AND HE CAN NOT HANDLE THE JOB.

Reports are that Obama is thin-skinned, he is losing his temper, yelling at people - and generally unable to handle the task at home.

I hear you both. The fishing industry is kaput if they are out of business for years. Of course, they'll all go bankrupt and all the service businesses, too. How mainstream is your view? Who agrees with it? Who doesn't?

What you are portraying is a regional economic collapse, I assume. If you are right, I totally concur that the Spill Team is wrong. The only time to use spin is when you can solve the underlying problem, and this isn't one of those times.

I'm still caught on the horns of the dilemma, though. Being able to actually mitigate the economic disaster requires something the American people won't tolerate, and that is a massive bailout/assistance, whatever you want to call it.

Suppose that the Spill Team just told the bald truth. The commercial fishing industry is over for years. The oil is coming onshore and nothing will be effective in stopping it. The oil is going into the Loop current and will come ashore in Florida.

Then what? Massive relocation? Or some kind of massive economic redevelopment. (Some would call it bail outs of the Gulf coast).

Yes. The fact that Prince William Sound has had some return of this or that part of their seafood industry may have been due to the fact that they have major tidal exchanges and a bunch of other technical (biological, oceanographic and petrochemical) differences from this.

Sweet talk denies the experience of the people in trouble. They know their way of life is over. They need hope, not lies.

Posted by: shrink2 | May 30, 2010 3:49 PM
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If anything persuades me to be a lot more critical, it is your last sentences. Do you truly believe that commercial Gulf fishing is gone for decades? No matter if the leak stopped right now.

For me, what got me with Hillary was her whole thing about trying to paint Obama supporters as ivory tower liberals who were trying to control the lives of everyone else. In fact, I thought her behavior was pretty petulant throughout the race. I voted in Louisiana which I believe was the first primary after Super Tuesday and I think it was the first out of that streak of 10 primaries that Obama won, so the race was still in doubt. And it was a coin flip for me, really. And I think it was for most people. I decided to use Bill Clinton's Jesse Jackson comment as the tiebreaker to vote for Obama, but I think Hillary lost a lot of support after that.

Well, that wasn't the only tiebreaker. I also figured Obama would enjoy more popularity than Hillary would which would make it easier to advance the agenda which the two of them seemed to share. I do think this has come to fruition. Republicans would filibuster either of them, but I think Obama was able to move public opinion on the HCR and stimulus enough to get them done.

Leadership is not about spin.
It is about using imagination and inspiration to stare reality in the face.
That is not what is happening.

This is being stage managed, as if it were a scandal. The aftermath may start five or even ten years from now.

They should be preparing for destruction now, talking about how much oil will have flowed into the gulf by the time the relief well operations have stopped the flow. When you consider that volume, you understand the gulf seafood industry is over. It just is.

If a miracle happens and the flow stops tomorrow or next week, then maybe someone somewhere will eat a shrimp from the Mississippi delta, just maybe, a few years from now.

I am not talking about exaggerating I am talking about reality. Minimizing is a crime, in a way. We are winning the war offshore, how could BP talk like that? We are losing terribly, losing so much. Sweet talk denies the experience of the people in trouble. They know their way of life is over. They need hope, not lies.

Posted by: shrink2 | May 30, 2010 2:56 PM
---------------------------------
I think I understand what you mean. You are talking about the spin. I get that.

Perhaps I don't have as negative impression of spin. I think of it is something you do (spin) while solving the real problem. But you better solve the real problem. Then people forgive the spin. Assuming it wasn't too outrageous.

Very good point. The ten day fishing ban WAS ridiculous and is a good example of cutting off the dog's tail one inch at a time. And continuing to spin it, is also silly.

But, what is the actual regulation? I'm assuming the fishing ban is now indefinite.

I agree with you that the Spill Team is glossing the aftermath. I am reluctant to outright condemn their spinning, without knowing more about it. There is always a balancing act between solving the problem and talking about the problem.

Billy Nungesser, the president of Plaquemines Parish whose frustrations about the federal government response have been featured prominently on TV in the past few weeks, told ABC News that in the private meeting the president had with local leaders here today, President Obama "chewed me out."

___________________________________

Sounds like Obama is more concerned with how Obama looks on CNN - than actually getting the Oil Spill cleaned up as well as possible.

After chewing out this guy, Obama went BACK TO HIS VACATION IN CHICAGO.

No I am not talking about the aftermath, nor preparing for it. I am criticizing people who are talking about the aftermath. Right now in Prince William Sound, they are dealing with the aftermath of Exxon Valdez.

Actually, I agree with you (and M Dowd) that the President sometimes fails to squelch some of the crazy charges against him. He tends to ignore the crazies and sometimes that doesn't work out so well. Then, sometimes he doesn't ignore the crazies (Sestak issue), but legitimizes them by taking them seriously. It shows what an art it is to stay on top of the hill of crap that is American politics.

When the 10 day ban on fishing was announced, I ridiculed it as a political stunt. Just ban fishing, do it, but for 10 days? 10 days?! That was a quite awhile ago. Still the BP/administration Unified Command, just yesterday went out of their way to point out that only 25% of US waters in the Gulf were closed to fishing because there was, "sheen on the surface."

Well how about the underwater plumes? I wouldn't think about eating fish/shrimp caught outside the boundary of the banned area and if any of you would, good luck. Sheen on the surface has nothing to do with where those animals have been and what they have ingested.

You are talking about the aftermath of the spill, including the cleanup and environmental and economic damage, short and long term. While I've been focusing on getting the leak plugged and haven't spent too much time even reading about the mitigation. I'm not at all surprised that the PR on the mitigation is to minimize and paint it as optimistically as possible. That is almost the Golden Rule of PR, if you can get away with it.

What should the government/BP be doing to improve the aftermath? Other than talk about it, which in my opinion, is of lesser value, than actually doing something.

I don't actually have a POV about dredging. I just posted someone else's opinion.

MM, I don't disagree with you. But after Sestak made a big deal of it early on (clearly his bad), BHO should have left it alone or, even better, ridiculed those who would make it an impeachable offense but had nothing to say when Ray-Gun and Bush One did the same thing. The problem with the rope-a-dope is that, over the long haul, you end up comatose. BHO really needs Hillary World just as, gulp, President Taylor needed ex-President Logan. So I agree with you but also agree with MoDo today.

The political problem is not about whether the gusher is stopped. I have never said it was. Yet people keep returning to that, as if Obama is supposed to fix something to stop the disaster. This has never been my complaint I have been going on about this making the same points (anti-detergent spraying, etc.) since April.

One day back then someone I respect here very much poo-pooed my declarations about the worst environmental disaster in this country's history, off-shore drilling's Chernobyl and so on. He said that killing the blown out well was an "ordinary" engineering problem.

I said there was nothing about this that was ordinary and that when the oil gusher is finally stopped, that would be the beginning of the disaster.

Meanwhile, even now BP is talking about winning the offshore battle, very modest damage, assessing damage when we reach the aftermath, denying knowledge about oil under the water (when everyone knows that is where the great mass of it is).

It is not that BP is the villain, any other oil company would be doing the same thing. We all use oil, etc. It is not Obama's Katrina, it is Bush/Cheney's and it is all of ours. The blame game is as boring as it is ridiculous.

The problem is the minimization and outright denial of the mistakes being made in the mitigation effort and the Katrina like minimization of long term impact and well I could go on and on. We need to prepare for what is going to happen over the course of the coming year. People will need to move away as the economy there falls apart. Talking about "just go fishing" is well, scary. Nobody is going to mess with contaminated seafood.

The blog you are referencing is about engineering problems. I am talking about future political problems for the administration if they do not come to grips with the fact that this disaster is still...just in its earliest stages.

Dredging could bring up to surface nastier stuff than the oil they are trying to stop, there is all kinds of contaminates in the sediment, some man made and a lot not man made. Some of these berms would have to be built up a hundred feet or more, and about 1.5 to 2x that much material has to be dredged up to build them. They could be dredging up 500-1,000years worth of sediment, with every heavy metal and nasty mineral known in it.
Not even mentioning the organics that would be dug up, it could cause an algae bloom that would fill half the Gulf.

_________________________________

OR they could try to save the marshes and the spawning grounds.

The stories are NOW coming out that OBAMA'S APPOINTEES DID LITTLE TO CHANGE THE CULTURE AT MMS -

AND OBAMA WAS NOT ASKING FOR THE PROPER SAFETY AND ENVIRONMENTAL SAFEGUARDS.

BWJ -- the unforced error was on Sestak's part. He was offered something nice to stay put as a congressman, for the sake of the party. It was a gesture. Sestak was the one who publicized and exaggerated the offer while whipping the White House for trying to be nice to him and preserve party unity.
Idiot couldn't even see how effing stupid he was being.

My bad. I know you were joking, and so was I, in my post. I didn't get that across. The day you give the fake 37th a sincere apology is the day that an asteroid will hit the earth and take out 37th' basement apartment and all his mayo jars. Something to look forward to. [joke]

1. Had to apologize to the Hillarians since their assistance is DESPERATELY needed by BHO. (Actually I just read an article suggesting Bill Clinton is already performing an "ex-President Logan" advisory role for BHO.) But, seriously, BHO needs help. If he's losing MoDo (sse today's column), he's losing a big chunk of his base.

This Joe Sestak thing was a HUGE unforced error. BHO's advisors turned a media-created fake controversy into a real one by treating it as real--unbelievable. BHO losing ground to 1950s bagger/neo-seg rhetoric is also unpardonable. We actually have candidates running on promises to abolish the Civil Rights Act, the Americans with Disabilities Act, Social Security, and the minimum wage, to replace HCR with "Chickens for Checkups," and to racially profile Hispanics, without any pushback from the WH!

IMO, the answer is to bring HRC inside the WH with an office next to BHO's, including the top Hillarians (Williams, et al.).
______________

2. The apology that 37 had asked me for was a special Trent Lott non-apology apology; it essentially blames the other guy for being too sensitive. :-)

Dredging could bring up to surface nastier stuff than the oil they are trying to stop, there is all kinds of contaminates in the sediment, some man made and a lot not man made. Some of these berms would have to be built up a hundred feet or more, and about 1.5 to 2x that much material has to be dredged up to build them. They could be dredging up 500-1,000years worth of sediment, with every heavy metal and nasty mineral known in it.
Not even mentioning the organics that would be dug up, it could cause an algae bloom that would fill half the Gulf.
Posted 14 hours ago.

I don't disagree that BP & the government are presenting a united front. I don't see that as a problem, assuming they are working out differences behind the scenes.

I don't disagree that BP lied and is lying. Again, that isn't a particular problem RIGHT NOW, if they are working to get the leak plugged.

What is important to me is that the problem is being worked by the experts that exist, and that all the fixes are being tried, in good faith. The problem (to me) is that once the BOP failed, they were in deep sh'it, and now it's just a matter of trying one thing after another, with each technique being a long shot.

12B, since no one is here and talk about Harry Reid's career is exhausted, we don't really need to go to an undisclosed location to discuss why the administration decided to sleep with British Petroleum, nor what a dreadful mistake that was, is and how ugly it will be when they break up.

Today's Unified Command message says it all. The Obama administration and BP are conflated, or conjoined, or have become indistinguishable.

Top Officials to Return to the Gulf Coast
At the direction of the President, Department of the Interior Secretary Ken Salazar, Environmental Protection Agency Administrator Lisa Jackson and NOAA Administrator Jane Lubchenco will return to the Gulf region next week as they continue their work, aggressively responding to the BP oil spill.

Oooooo, Ken and Lisa are so aggressive. I'll bet that will make people feel like Baghdad Bob was right on the mark when he announced, "we are winning" the "offshore battle" that does not exist.

Yesterday watching the failed attempt to cut on the riser, I gave up on interim plans, but they do have to try. This morning, I saw (another) eel checking out the upside down oil fall on the disaster cam.

The oil gushing in the Gulf and the state of my retirement funds are the two problems that I care about most. Neither of these are particularly political, but both derive from the same basic cause. Both are the whirlwind reaped from gradual deregulation. Congress and administrations, of both parties, have participated in defanging regulators, or if all else fails, underfunding the regulators.

Now, for the political part. Since the Republicans historically run on a platform of deregulation, I put them at the top of the list of Those Who Can't Be Trusted. While I don't trust the Democrats either, at least they are talking the right talk. We have to elect someone, so I'll pick the better of the two, and work to make them walk the talk.

It seems MoDo has the same concerns about BHO's refusal to engage and hit back. Again, the answer for BHO may be "the Answer": Hillary Rodham Clinton (and her top Hillarians) placed next to BHO in the WH:

MoDo today:

"In the campaign, Obama’s fight flagged to the point that his donors openly upbraided him. In the Oval, he waited too long to express outrage and offer leadership on A.I.G., the banks, the bonuses, the job loss and mortgage fears, the Christmas underwear bomber, the death panel scare tactics, the ugly name-calling of Tea Party protesters.

Too often it feels as though Barry is watching from a balcony, reluctant to enter the fray until the clamor of the crowd forces him to come down. The pattern is perverse. The man whose presidency is rooted in his ability to inspire withholds that inspiration when it is most needed."

I am not joking when I say we expect this of Republicans. You hear it every day when a Democrat makes a faux pas, or lies, "You said you were different and it turns out you are just like us! Gotcha!"

It is peculiar. But Democrats are held to a higher standard, because (1) they promise a higher standard, Obama in particular and (2) the Republican existential premise is a pack of lies, fiscal responsibility, cares more about the middle American working stiff, holier (closer to God) than thou, strictly conservative when it come to the interpretation of The Constitution and its Bill of rights, the trickle down economic theory of job/gdp growth, family values and so on.

Fake 37, reading your series of unwelcome "news reports" of various acts of urban violence, presumably offered to justify your apparent bigotry, reminds us of who you are. You must be Juror No. 10 (played by Ed Begley) in "12 Angry Men."
________________________

"Juror #10: I don't understand you people! I mean all these picky little points you keep bringing up. They don't mean nothing. You saw this kid just like I did. You're not gonna tell me you believe that phony story about losing the knife, and that business about being at the movies. Look, you know how these people lie! It's born in them! I mean what the heck? I don't have to tell you. They don't know what the truth is! And lemme tell you, they don't need any real big reason to kill someone, either! No sir!
[Five gets up from his seat]
Juror #10: They get drunk... oh, they're real big drinkers, all of 'em - you know that - and bang: someone's lyin' in the gutter. Oh, nobody's blaming them for it. That's the way they are! By nature! You know what I mean? VIOLENT!
Juror #10: [Nine rises and crosses to the window] Where're you going?
Juror #10: Human life don't mean as much to them as it does to us!
[Eleven gets up and walks to the other window]
Juror #10: Look, they're lushing it up and fighting all the time and if somebody gets killed, so somebody gets killed! They don't care! Oh, sure, there are some good things about 'em, too. Look, I'm the first one to say that.
[Eight gets up and walks to the nearest wall]
Juror #10: I've known a couple who were OK, but that's the exception, y'know what I mean?
[Two and Six get up from the table. Everyone's back is to Ten]
Juror #10: Most of 'em, it's like they have no feelings! They can do anything! What's goin' on here? I'm trying to tell you... you're makin' a big mistake, you people! This kid is a liar! I know it. I know all about them! Listen to me! They're no good! There's not a one of 'em who is any good! I mean, what's happening in here? I'm speaking my piece, and you...
[the Foreman gets up and walks away. So does Twelve]
Juror #10: Listen to me. We're... This kid on trial here... his type, well, don't you know about them? There's a, there's a danger here. These people are dangerous. They're wild. Listen to me. Listen.
Juror #4: I have. Now sit down and don't open your mouth again."
________________

...and please provide office space in the WH for the board of directors of Hillary World -- Luzzatto, Williams, Mills, Blumenthal, Begala, et al. -- each a cult hero of a sort. All hands on deck. ... Hopefully by the end of the summer.

Where's the outrage about this? Where's the Fix column and the 800 whining wingers criticizing Mark Kirk for lying about his service?

"The Republican candidate for President Obama's old Senate seat has admitted to inaccurately claiming he received the U.S. Navy's Intelligence Officer of the Year award for his service during NATO's conflict with Serbia in the late 1990s.

Rep. Mark Kirk, a Navy reservist who was elected to Congress in 2001, acknowledged the error in his official biography after The Washington Post began looking into whether he had received the prestigious award, which is given by top Navy officials to a single individual annually.

Kirk, whose campaign has emphasized his military service as a reservist, similarly misstated the award during a House committee hearing in March 2002. In a remark recorded by C-Span, he said, "I was the Navy's Intelligence Officer of the Year," an achievement he depicted as providing special qualifications to discuss national security spending."

Posted by L1: "My question: why did
it take almost two years for your supporters to recognize that she is a
true patriot."
_____________

For starters: make believe stories about Bosnia sniper fire and Annie Oakley gunslinging in Scranton, the comment "BHO's not a Muslim as far as I know," and her 127 personal grievances...

But that's all in the past, we are now one: HRC and the Hillarians are acknowledged, nay, cheered as patriots, and they are desperately needed by a POTUS who has, unwisely, been advised to adopt a "rope-a-dope" strategy in response to unhinged (and to some extent successful)bagger attacks. That R-A-D approach -- based on the idea Americans are to bright to listen to the blatherings and lies of loud mouth rightwing mentals (and so you need not pushback) -- NEVER works because history has proven its premise false, see Joe McCarthy.

Make a space for Ms. Wm. J. Clinton in the WH as close to BHO's office as possible: desperate times call for the ultimate in desperate solutions. With apologies to Allen Iverson, the Honorable Hillary Rodham Cliinton IS "the Answer" ... and a true patriot.

While the people on this blog were talking about the "possibility" of right-wing violence - and discussing how federal resources and all sorts of money should be devoted to that -

THE DEMOCRATS INSIST ON IGNORING THE REAL VIOLENCE IN THIS COUNTRY - AND THERE ARE STILL 20 MILLION PEOPLE IN THE US BREAKING THE IMMIGRATION LAWS (WHICH THE DEMOCRATS DO NOT WANT TO ENFORCE)

This is WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED YESTERDAY JUST IN CHICAGO:

At least 21 wounded in separate shootings, 1 dead
May 30, 2010

At least 21 people were wounded in separate shootings around the city, including a man who died this morning after he was shot in the head, Chicago police said.

One of the shootings happened about 3 p.m. in the 6200 block of South Cottage Grove in the Woodlawn neighborhood. A 56-year-old man was standing on the corner when a passing car fired in his direction, said Police News Affairs Officer Laura Kubiak. He fell to the ground in pain and discovered he was shot in his calf, Kubiak said. He was taken to an area hospital and listed in good condition.

About 8:10 p.m. in the 2900 block of North Milwaukee Avenue in the Logan Square neighborhood, a 47-year-old man was shot in his arm. Police said the shooting might have been a drive-by. The victim was taken to Norwegian-American Hospital and is now listed in good condition.

In another shooting, which happened roughly 20 minutes earlier in the Ashburn neighborhood, a man, 19, was wounded in the leg in the 3900 block of West 79th Street outside Bogan Computer Technical High School. He was taken to Advocate Christ Medical Center in Oak Lawn and is now listed in critical condition.

A little earlier, about 7:30 p.m., a 17-year-old boy was standing on the sidewalk on the 7400 block of South Evans Avenue when he heard shots and felt pain. He was hospitalized with a gunshot wound to the upper right side.

Two people were shot at about 6:45 p.m. in the 8400 block of South Muskegon Avenue, but both told conflicting stories, said Kubiak.

An 18-year-old gang- affiliated man suffered a graze wound but refused treatment. He said he was walking in the 8400 block of South Escanaba Avenue when a suspect walked up and shot him, police said. The other victim, 19, told a different story. He said he was driving when someone pulled up and began shouting gang slogans and shot into his car, police said. He drove himself to Advocate Trinity Hospital where he was treated and released.

Police could not locate either victims for interviews after the shootings, Kubiak said.

Earlier Saturday at about 11 a.m., a 25-year-old man was shot on the 5300 block of South Laflin Street. He was wounded in the arm and hospitalized.Police said the Laflin shooting appeared to be gang-related, but witnesses were giving conflicting accounts of the event.

fake 37, we feel your pain. We encourage you to share your concerns with Mrs. Napolitano. When you do, please give her your real name, address, email, phone number, and the ID numbers for any registered weapons. I'm confident she can address your problems on an expedited basis. All the best.

Ah, 37th. The herd has rumbled through, so you can resume blog spamming. Incidentally, what do you think about a senatorial candidate claiming to have received an honor from the Navy for being officer of the year?

THE ONLY COMPREHENSIVE IMMIGRATION REFORM which will work IS CHANGING THE CONSTITUTION SO THAT BABIES OF ILLEGAL ALIENS ARE NOT CITIZENS.

That is the ONLY IMMIGRATION REFORM which will work.

This country is being ABUSED -

People have to be deported -

American will survive - but WHAT IS GOING ON RIGHT NOW IS AN INVASION OF THIS COUNTRY - ASSISTED BY THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY WHO ARE A BUNCH OF TRAITORS WHO ARE BETRAYING THIS COUNTRY FOR A FEW EXTRA VOTES ON ELECTION DAY.

"I hope you are right, I also hope the FBI is watching the hate groups,"

in response to this,

In general, that isn't how violence happens. Don't get me wrong, but the great mass of violence is in families, within ethnic groups against each other...political/terrorist violence is very, very rare.

Posted by: shrink 2

The FBI does watch hate groups and people who threaten the POTUS in particular. I'll just add that many if not most of the people the FBI investigates for threats against the President are not part of any political organization, they are crazy.

Their dread of their own irrelevance, their anonymity, causes them to create a red-hot though entirely fictitious (projected) relationship with the President. Or they may pick a famous actor/actress/pop star, etc., to either love or hate, or both.

Not saying these are not dangerous times. I am saying overall, the prevalence of political violence today is less than it has been during many other times in our history. I can't even imagine the Kent State disaster happening today, for example. Or how about when the Symbionese (?Sp) Liberation Army was incinerated on prime time? That would not happen today.

On the issue of illegal aliens voting - several cities have already allowed illegals to vote - they SAY it is only for local elections, but in reality the illegals are allowed to vote for all positions on the ballot.

IN SAN FRANCISCO, a councilman HAS ALREADY INTRODUCED A BILL AND IS ACTIVELY SEEKING THE VOTES to allow illegal aliens to vote.

So, it is true - you are just saying that the looney left is too looney for you.

broadwayjoe: I too was a Hillarian and
heard the sentiments of harpies and loosers of her supporters. We always
felt that HRC was a patriot even
when BHO was called a traitor when
he chose her as SOS. My question: why did
it take almost two years for your supporters to recognize that she is a
true patriot. Many of us have long memories. As to illegals voting that
is the most idiotic statement I have read here as they fully understand that folks
like you would have them deported by INS
in a heartbeat if they were caught voting.
Rs beating up on all hispanic like you are doing joelwitsch will cost the GOP dearly in Ca, Nevada and Texas elections Texans an even an outside chance of capturing the Governorship. this Nov. So thank you from all progressives and conservative Ds, and please keep it up.

While you were talking about the "possibility" of right-wing violence - and discussion how federal resources and all sorts of money should be devoted to it -

This is WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED YESTERDAY JUST IN CHICAGO:

At least 21 wounded in separate shootings, 1 dead
May 30, 2010

At least 21 people were wounded in separate shootings around the city, including a man who died this morning after he was shot in the head, Chicago police said.

One of the shootings happened about 3 p.m. in the 6200 block of South Cottage Grove in the Woodlawn neighborhood. A 56-year-old man was standing on the corner when a passing car fired in his direction, said Police News Affairs Officer Laura Kubiak. He fell to the ground in pain and discovered he was shot in his calf, Kubiak said. He was taken to an area hospital and listed in good condition.

About 8:10 p.m. in the 2900 block of North Milwaukee Avenue in the Logan Square neighborhood, a 47-year-old man was shot in his arm. Police said the shooting might have been a drive-by. The victim was taken to Norwegian-American Hospital and is now listed in good condition.

In another shooting, which happened roughly 20 minutes earlier in the Ashburn neighborhood, a man, 19, was wounded in the leg in the 3900 block of West 79th Street outside Bogan Computer Technical High School. He was taken to Advocate Christ Medical Center in Oak Lawn and is now listed in critical condition.

A little earlier, about 7:30 p.m., a 17-year-old boy was standing on the sidewalk on the 7400 block of South Evans Avenue when he heard shots and felt pain. He was hospitalized with a gunshot wound to the upper right side.

Two people were shot at about 6:45 p.m. in the 8400 block of South Muskegon Avenue, but both told conflicting stories, said Kubiak.

An 18-year-old gang- affiliated man suffered a graze wound but refused treatment. He said he was walking in the 8400 block of South Escanaba Avenue when a suspect walked up and shot him, police said. The other victim, 19, told a different story. He said he was driving when someone pulled up and began shouting gang slogans and shot into his car, police said. He drove himself to Advocate Trinity Hospital where he was treated and released.

Police could not locate either victims for interviews after the shootings, Kubiak said.

Earlier Saturday at about 11 a.m., a 25-year-old man was shot on the 5300 block of South Laflin Street. He was wounded in the arm and hospitalized.Police said the Laflin shooting appeared to be gang-related, but witnesses were giving conflicting accounts of the event.

Nearby that shooting, a 19-year-old man was shot in the head at about 12:28 a.m. today in the 5100 block of South Laflin Street, police said. He was pronounced dead at 1:10 a.m., said Police News Affairs Officer Hector Alfaro.

About two minutes later, a 28-year-old man was shot in the Roseland neighborhood in the 10500 block of South Corliss Avenue, police said. He was taken to Roseland Community Hospital with a gunshot wound to his right calf and was described as in "stable" condition.

At the same time on the Southeast Side, three more people were shot as the sat on a porch in the 9200 block of South Blackstone Avenue, said police News Affairs Officer Laura Kubiak. One victim, a 25-year-old man was taken in critical condition to Advocate Christ Medical Center in Oak Lawn. An 18-year-old man was taken in "stable" condition to Advocate Trinity Hospital. Another victim, 27, was treated and released from Trinity with a graze wound to his arm, police said.

About 15 minutes later, a 16-year-old boy was shot in the 1500 block of East 67th Street. He was taken in critical condition to Northwestern Memorial Hospital with a gunshot wound to his arm.

On the West Side at about 12:15 a.m., two people were shot in the 3900 block of West Gladys Avenue, police said. A 24-year-old man was taken to Mt. Sinai Hospital in stable condition with a graze wound to his head. A 19-year-old woman also was taken to the same hospital. She was listed in stable condition with a gunshot wound to her neck.

About 2 a.m. in the 10800 block of South Racine Avenue, two people were shot while they sat in a parked vehicle, police said.

One victim, a 43-year-old man, was shot in the chest and taken to Advocate Christ Medical Center where he is now listed in critical condition. The other victim, 22, was shot in the shoulder and is listed in stable condition at Roseland Community Hospital. Police said the 22-year-old is gang affiliated.

Both men were shot by a passenger of a gold-colored 4-door car, police said.

Four people were shot at about 3:15 a.m. in the 9100 block of South Marshfield Avenue, said Police News Affairs Officer Ron Gaines. The four vctims were taken to area hospitals, he said. There was no immediate information available about their ages or conditions.

No one is in custody for any of the shootings. Calumet Area, Harrison Area and Wentworth Area detectives are investigating.

_______________________________________

The POINT is : Should we devote tax dollars to your IMAGINED THREATS - or to stopping WHAT IS ACTUALLY HAPPENING IN THE INNER CITIES ???

heh, I remember when I was living with a family in North Carolina. My friend gave me a handful of something that looked like corn chips and told me to eat them. So I did. And he told me they were pork rinds. I had no idea what they were at the time until they started dissolving in my mouth which is a very harrowing experience, to say the least.

@Joe - That was funny. As a totally in the tank Hillary fan boy, I was delighted when she was nominated to be Sec. State. I wish she'd gotten the Veep spot, but she's the best thing to hit Foggy Bottom in 20 years.

BB

P.S. I think the herd has finished thundering through. There was a 40 minute gap in posts tonight.

You can both quit fantasizing about right wing violence - and all your scare tactics.

AND PLEASE APOLOGIZE TO THE FAMILY OF THIS MAN

_____________________________

WASHINGTON, DC (WUSA) -- DC Police have released the identity of a man who was shot to death Friday on Hillside Road in Southeast DC.

Manuel D. Sanchez, 29, of Capital Heights, Md., was reportedly doing contracting work at 2:20 p.m. in the 4600 block of Hillside Road when he was shot. Police found him unconscious, and he was transported to Prince George's County Hospital, where he was later pronounced dead.

Police said they weren't sure if robbery was a motive.

Sanchez was approached by two unidentified black men when he was shot, police said

12: Yeah, just hope HRC accepts our apology. Also I apologize for having called the Hillarians "harpies, mentals, and losers." They clearly have served BHO well--they are patriots. Let's hope the full power of HillaryWorld is brought to bear in pushing back against this back-to-the-50s bagger movement.

WASHINGTON, DC (WUSA) -- DC Police have released the identity of a man who was shot to death Friday on Hillside Road in Southeast DC.

Manuel D. Sanchez, 29, of Capital Heights, Md., was reportedly doing contracting work at 2:20 p.m. in the 4600 block of Hillside Road when he was shot. Police found him unconscious, and he was transported to Prince George's County Hospital, where he was later pronounced dead.

Police said they weren't sure if robbery was a motive.

Sanchez was approached by two unidentified black men when he was shot, police said

In O-Nation, there's growing sentiment for moving HRC into the Oval Office in some senior capacity--immediately. When BHO's senior staff validates (and thereby lengthens the life of) a totally fake controversy like the Sestak smear by responding to it, something is very wrong.

Full disclosure: I may have been wrong in the past about HRC. Messing around in the Fix archives (cough, cough), I came across an earlier unflattering post from yours truly. Let's hope BHO asks for her counsel in this time of need.
_______________

WASHINGTON, DC (WUSA) -- DC Police have released the identity of a man who was shot to death Friday on Hillside Road in Southeast DC.

Manuel D. Sanchez, 29, of Capital Heights, Md., was reportedly doing contracting work at 2:20 p.m. in the 4600 block of Hillside Road when he was shot. Police found him unconscious, and he was transported to Prince George's County Hospital, where he was later pronounced dead.

Police said they weren't sure if robbery was a motive.

Sanchez was approached by two unidentified black men when he was shot, police said

Right NOW - ONE THING THAT WILL GO A LONG WAY TOWARD HEALING THIS COUNTRY is impeaching Obama. The nation will feel vindicated for the FRAUD and the broken promises - AND JUSTICE WILL HAVE BEEN DONE.

Then the healing can begin.

The country can look forward to a time when the NATIONAL NIGHTMARE IS OVER. And we can look forward to a time in which EVERYONE GETS ALONG, NO ONE TRIES TO JAM ANYTHING DOWN ANYONE'S THROAT - AND NO ONE IN POLITICS IS CALLING ANYONE RACIST FOR POLTICAL GAIN.

Then the country can CONCENTRATE ON THE ECONOMY AND SOLVING THE ACTUAL PROBLEMS OF THE COUNTRY.

THE LIGHT AT THE END OF THE TUNNEL IS NEAR - WE STILL HAVE A WAYS TO GO - IF OBAMA WOULD RESIGN IT WOULD BE A REAL HEALING GESTURE FOR THE NATION.

IT IS THE LEAST HE COULD DO.

THIS COUNTRY WILL SURVIVE - AND WE WILL GET BACK TO SOLVING THE REAL PROBLEMS HERE.

shrink wrote: So long as our state monopoly on violence remains representative, we will not collapse.
--------------------------------
I understand your point, and it is a good one. What do you make of Arizona, where the police are now forced by law to racially profile. I assume that the police have a high percentage of Hispanic officers, so they are at least integrated on that basis. So, here's a real life example of an integrated legitimate force who will target a group of people on looks. What do you make of this?

Obama gets a THIRD PARTY TO GO MAKE AN OFFER. IN THE BLAGO CASE, IT WAS THE UNION OFFICIAL.

This provides two means of potential deniablity - one is there is a third party there, the other is if the thing of value being transacted goes through a third party, then it has the potential to be denied.

Also, if that third party is giving something of value - AND then receiving something ELSE AS COMPENSATION - then there is another level of deniability.

But the concept is the same.

THE ALLEGATION IS CLEAR: OBAMA AND HIS PEOPLE ASKED THE UNION OFFICIAL TO MAKE AN OFFER TO BLAGO - IN ORDER TO GET VALERIE JARRETT APPOINTED AS US SENATOR.

IF THERE WAS ANY OFFER OR BID, THERE WOULD BE A VIOLATION OF THE LAW.

It doesn't matter if the Union official was expecting compensation or whatever those arrangements were made - the OFFER TO BLAGO WOULD BE ENOUGH FOR THE GROUP BECAUSE THEY WERE WORKING TOGETHER.

They have EVIDENCE THAT THE UNION OFFICIAL CONTACTED BLAGO -

AND SUPPOSEDLY THERE MAY HAVE BEEN SOME TAPED CONVERSATIONS.

IN ANY EVENT, THIS NEEDS TO BE INVESTIGATED FULLY BY AN INDEPEPENDENT PROSECUTOR.

OBAMA PROMISED THE NATION THAT HE WOULD DO THINGS DIFFERENTLY - AND THAT LEVEL OF HYPOCRISY DESERVES AN INDEPENDENT PROSECUTOR.

nd 12 bar, that's why it makes sane people nervous. You see all these enraged nuts walking around with assault weapons, you know at some point some of them will use them and it might be at a mall where you happen to be shopping.

___________________________________----

These people do NOT have incidents

YOU want to see incidents? Go to the inner cities.

The blacks and the hispanic gangs are shooting all the time - it is a complete joke.

IF YOU REALLY CARE ABOUT PEOPLE BECOMING SAFE - ADDRESS THE PEOPLE WHO ARE ACTUALLY GETTING SHOT IN THE INNER CITIES - INSTEAD OF IMAGINING PROBLEMS WHICH DO NOT EXIST.

No, by integration I don't mean racial, I mean fully integrated. Classes, sexuality, races, languages, the social integration of the American armed forces are the reason America hangs together, I believe that. So long as our state monopoly on violence remains representative, we will not collapse. Napoleon succeeded on this principle, until he forgot it.

The Mormons are the one and only of many bizarre indigenous American religious cults that survived to this day (Christian Scientists are moribund, Scientologists, etc., are crazy).

We have to acknowledge that all religions began as bizarre cults, all of them. It is all about magic, after all. The funny thing is, religions are threatened by infidels, apostasy, cults, agnostics, rival wannabe religions, atheism. No wonder religious people are scared of death.

Were they to become this group and that group/faction armed services, then, go ahead, feel terrified. What if the states' police and the Army had fundamental differences? What if the National Guard and the local police were at odds? So long as these questions seem strange, we are as safe as usual.

Posted by: shrink2 | May 29, 2010 4:38 PM
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There is at least one place in the US where this has occurred, and that is southern Utah. It is organized around the fundamentalist LDS Church. There are whole towns that are polygamist, along with the police force and government. Polygamy is openly practiced, along with the institutionalized welfare cheating that comes along with it. (Multiple wives/children live on welfare for those who don't know how this works.)

This has been going on for donkeys ages and of course the police don't do a thing, when they have multiple wives too. The FBI had to raid the towns, and that was when they grabbed the children which you might have remembered from the news a couple of years ago.

A long and interesting story to me, but the upshot is that the southern Utah law enforcement is an anti-federal government force that openly breaks the law.

Heh, Paul should win the WW FOR W instead of in W. The press has been scrambling to cover his ass. Have you ever seen the press equivocating for someone like that? Even Chris C, someone who is in the business of politics, not policy, felt the need to link to what Paul REALLY meant. Did you ever see that with the Jeremiah Wright tapes? No one ever said "he's giving a critique on US imperialism and how it has led to animosity and thus, terrorism abroad." All we heard was ZOMG HE HATES DA WITES AND HUSSANE OBAMA ALSO HATES DA WITES!!!!111!1!

I actually agree with the equivocation and that it's being employed, but it shouldn't be limited to white conservatives.

But yeah, Paul is screwing himself, but he is also giving the DC press a big headache. And if this continues with Paul or the other teabagger candidates such as whoever comes out of Nevada as well as if Heyworth wins in Arizona, we'll probably see an unprecedented level of nuance in the press.

Harry Reid had sensational rallies that I went to in Southern Nevada. As it turned out, the illegal aliens working in the hotel I was at were at the rallies. I kept watching the rallies, and Harry is getting terrific support from those illegal aliens. And it counts... they do vote. And I am guessing at this point: with Obama's blessings. Nevada does not require proof of citizenship to obtain the drivers license and that is what you need to vote. As a story in this paper pointed out, the illegal aliens head north when they cross.. to Nevada. Las Vegas looks like it has as many illegals now as Los Angles, and I think it is a good place to stay away from. Sad.

Harry Reid had sensational rallies that I went to in Southern Nevada. As it turned out, the illegal aliens working in the hotel I was at were at the rallies. I kept watching the rallies, and Harry is getting terrific support from those illegal aliens. And it counts... they do vote. And I am guessing at this point: with Obama's blessings. Nevada does not require proof of citizenship to obtain the drivers license and that is what you need to vote. As a story in this paper pointed out, the illegal aliens head north when they cross.. to Nevada. Las Vegas looks like it has as many illegals now as Los Angles, and I think it is a good place to stay away from. Sad.

shrink wrote: Again, I believe the full integration of our armed services and police forces is protective.
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I'm assuming you mean racially integrated. Following the same thread of logic, integrating women and gays also are protective.

Thus, the police action in Arizona is not particularly concerning, since a significant part of the police force is Hispanic (I'm assuming). Or is the racial profiling the Arizona police are now forced into, a step down the path toward legimatized and legalized violence toward a group of people? How do you view that?

Speaking of ethnic division, one theory is that the reason why the US never developed a good working class political movement which you see in a lot of European countries is that racial strife prevented people who might otherwise be working together from reaching critical mass for a real uprising. That is why for as educated of a country we are, the ultra-right wing is so powerful here.

One good example is something like welfare. There's no reason for one race to prefer it over another, but the best predictor of support for welfare isn't income or wealth or education. It's race. I was also a strong predictor of health care reform support.

This is more of a summary as to what other people are saying. I'm not so sure if I believe it myself because race is correlated with so many other things.

But there's a read if you got a few hours to kill. You can probably cheat through much of it my looking at the graphs and charts. Conclusion is on page 60 or so. I'm skeptical, but I haven't done the work these guys have, so there you go.

"If the militias were successful in getting ...their members in the police force, and even better in elected office, they would be even more ominous?"

Yeah, that is what I am saying. The state monopoly on violence exists for good reason. If that becomes fractured, you have the potential for calamity. Look at Pakistan. They pretended to ignored the tribal areas, they played Reagan and Bush/Cheney for fools...now they are reaping the whirlwind. Good luck Pakistan, look in your mirror!

Again, I believe the full integration of our armed services and police forces is protective.

Were they to become this group and that group/faction armed services, then, go ahead, feel terrified. What if the states' police and the Army had fundamental differences? What if the National Guard and the local police were at odds? So long as these questions seem strange, we are as safe as usual.

On Angle's website — which is full of spelling mistakes and grammatical errors — Angle declares: "Like a soldier going to war, I am fighting for my country, the Constitution and a free society."

She wants to privatize Social Security; cut federal spending by hundreds of billions of dollars; build nuclear power plants inside Yucca Mountain; abolish the federal income tax and institute a "simpler, fairer, flatter tax system"; "defund Obamacare"; pull the United States out of the United Nations; ban nearly all abortions; get rid of the Energy and Education departments as well as Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac; and remove all campaign finance restrictions, requiring instead immediate reporting of donations.

And in a state with a large and growing Hispanic population, Angle takes a hard-line view on immigration, siding with the tough new Arizona "papers please" law that gives law enforcement officials broad discretion to crack down on suspected illegal aliens.

Angle's response? Well, everyone agrees with the Teabaggers!

Angle says the Democrats are misreading the country.

"They’ve missed the pulse of the nation," Angle told POLITICO. "It’s a wave of conservatism across the land. I think they’re not really reading what is truly going on if they think I’m going to be an easy opponent for Harry Reid."

After being named the "worst member" of the Nevada Assembly in 1999 and 2005 by the conservative Las Vegas Review-Journal, Angle claimed it was all a "liberal plot".

Angle said the press, legislators and staff participating in the poll were largely "left leaning."

"Any conservative thought, or any conservative voting, to their way of thinking is terrible," Angle said. "And so that’s really what that rating was about. I wear that as a badge of honor. What that does is just solidify my record as being a conservative."

On Angle's website — which is full of spelling mistakes and grammatical errors — Angle declares: "Like a soldier going to war, I am fighting for my country, the Constitution and a free society."

She wants to privatize Social Security; cut federal spending by hundreds of billions of dollars; build nuclear power plants inside Yucca Mountain; abolish the federal income tax and institute a "simpler, fairer, flatter tax system"; "defund Obamacare"; pull the United States out of the United Nations; ban nearly all abortions; get rid of the Energy and Education departments as well as Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac; and remove all campaign finance restrictions, requiring instead immediate reporting of donations.

And in a state with a large and growing Hispanic population, Angle takes a hard-line view on immigration, siding with the tough new Arizona "papers please" law that gives law enforcement officials broad discretion to crack down on suspected illegal aliens.

Angle's response? Well, everyone agrees with the Teabaggers!

Angle says the Democrats are misreading the country.

"They’ve missed the pulse of the nation," Angle told POLITICO. "It’s a wave of conservatism across the land. I think they’re not really reading what is truly going on if they think I’m going to be an easy opponent for Harry Reid."

After being named the "worst member" of the Nevada Assembly in 1999 and 2005 by the conservative Las Vegas Review-Journal, Angle claimed it was all a "liberal plot".

Angle said the press, legislators and staff participating in the poll were largely "left leaning."

"Any conservative thought, or any conservative voting, to their way of thinking is terrible," Angle said. "And so that’s really what that rating was about. I wear that as a badge of honor. What that does is just solidify my record as being a conservative."

Obama gets a THIRD PARTY TO GO MAKE AN OFFER. IN THE BLAGO CASE, IT WAS THE UNION OFFICIAL.

This provides two means of potential deniablity - one is there is a third party there, the other is if the thing of value being transacted goes through a third party, then it has the potential to be denied.

Also, if that third party is giving something of value - AND then receiving something ELSE AS COMPENSATION - then there is another level of deniability.

But the concept is the same.

THE ALLEGATION IS CLEAR: OBAMA AND HIS PEOPLE ASKED THE UNION OFFICIAL TO MAKE AN OFFER TO BLAGO - IN ORDER TO GET VALERIE JARRETT APPOINTED AS US SENATOR.

IF THERE WAS ANY OFFER OR BID, THERE WOULD BE A VIOLATION OF THE LAW.

It doesn't matter if the Union official was expecting compensation or whatever those arrangements were made - the OFFER TO BLAGO WOULD BE ENOUGH FOR THE GROUP BECAUSE THEY WERE WORKING TOGETHER.

They have EVIDENCE THAT THE UNION OFFICIAL CONTACTED BLAGO -

AND SUPPOSEDLY THERE MAY HAVE BEEN SOME TAPED CONVERSATIONS.

IN ANY EVENT, THIS NEEDS TO BE INVESTIGATED FULLY BY AN INDEPEPENDENT PROSECUTOR.

OBAMA PROMISED THE NATION THAT HE WOULD DO THINGS DIFFERENTLY - AND THAT LEVEL OF HYPOCRISY DESERVES AN INDEPENDENT PROSECUTOR.

Shrink, I didn't watch the WWW or read it, but I think she won because she was the sac. lamb, right? Or did Chris C say she was effed up.

That being said, what I'm hearing is that she wasn't responsible for this leak, but she was heading an agency that needed to be reformed from its coke and sex party culture from a few years back and just didn't seem up to the task.

Your point is that the angry Right is not dangerous because they are not organized. Do you think they will become organized? Or is there something in their movement that works against organization? In other words, is this a predictable journey from lone wolves to organization. Or is that unlikely?

The right wing militias are, by their very nature, a more serious threat.

If the militias were successful in getting their members in the police force, and even better in elected office, they would be even more ominous?

The urge to have, to hold, to amass more stuff, more symbols of clan and family status, that is what terrorizes most people. So during periods of general downward mobility, people become deranged and enraged, externalizing blame when they should be pulling together for the common good.

Deep in the mind, it is all about the denial of love and right there next to that, the denial of death. Now of course, if we had what-is-in-my-best-interest classes in school, that would be called socialism. Oh well, rugged individualism is a lonely existence...and then you die, life dies.

If they were not impotent, they would have plenty of organized, trained executioners.

Serious political extremists have a cadre, brownshirts, partisans, mujahidin, organized bands of murderers. I will not horrify you with historical examples of dangerous political extremists and what they have done. But Beck/Palin et al, they are not the axis of evil. In that vein, we can not make the mistake Bush/Cheney made.

The post modern American Right is not funny, they are disgusting and ridiculous.
But, just like the middle-aged Chinese men attacking school children with kitchen cleavers, the sporadic violence against innocents from the American Right is meaningless, nihilistic.

The fact that the person who flew an airplane, a toy he could no longer afford, into IRS offices, the agency he blamed for the wreck of his life, that is meaningless, that is impotence.

The reason there are so many comments on the other thread is there is a link to it on the front page - anyway -

Obviously - this is an important topic

OBAMA SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO INVESTIGATE HIMSELF.

ALSO - OBAMA'S INVOLVEMENT IN THE BLAGO SITUATION SHOULD BE LOOKED INTO AS WELL - IF OBAMA AND HIS CREW (INCLUDING THE UNION CHIEF) MADE ANY KIND OF OFFER TO BLAGO IN AN EFFORT TO GET VALERIE JARRETT IN, THAT IS THE SAME EXACT THING.

Blago didn't have to accept the offer.

But if there was ANY KIND OF OFFER OR BID MADE TO BLAGO BY OBAMA'S PEOPLE, THEN THERE IS A PROBLEM.

EVEN IF IT WAS A THIRD PARTY MAKING THE OFFER.

FOR INSTANCE - IF THE UNION OFFICIAL WAS IN THERE TO OFFER BLAGO SOMETHING - WITH THE UNDERSTANDING THAT THE OFFER WAS TO GET VALERIE JARRETT THE APPOINTMENT, THEN THAT WOULD BE A PROBLEM.

IF OBAMA OR OBAMA'S PEOPLE ASKED THE UNION OFFICIAL TO TALK TO BLAGO TO MAKE AN OFFER OR A BID, THAT WOULD BE A PROBLEM.

Sure seems like there may have been something there - with the UNION OFFICIAL ACTUALLY TAKING STEPS AFTER TALKING TO OBAMA'S PEOPLE - SO A PLAN WAS IN THE WORKS - THE UNION OFFICIAL DID TALK TO BLAGO.

Thanks for your evidence-based response to why I feel threatened. I will keep it in mind when my duck-and-cover meter goes off. Their rage is positively correlated to their impotence. Good to remember.

Your last sentence intrigues me: "No matter how The Right tries to style itself, encouraging crazy people to murder innocents is central to its impotence." Can you expound?

In general, that isn't how violence happens. Don't get me wrong, but the great mass of violence is in families, within ethnic groups against each other...political/terrorist violence is very, very rare.

nd 12 bar, that's why it makes sane people nervous. You see all these enraged nuts walking around with assault weapons, you know at some point some of them will use them and it might be at a mall where you happen to be shopping.

Posted by: drindl | May 29, 2010 2:52 PM
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Here in California, the open carry bunch is tromping around from one Starbucks to another.

Since I came from eastern Montana, I'm not unused to guns. But there, guns are considered tools, not symbols. Guns are meant to be used not brandished. That's what I was taught.

The open carry bunch are making some kind of political statement that makes me nervous, because I don't quite understand their motives. Someone who carries a gun must intend to use it under certain circumstances, right? And they are in Starbucks, Safeway, St. Maria's Church? They'd be laughed out of Montana, but here, they are just kind of scarey, because they pass themselves off as typical gunowners. Coming from a cattle ranch, I can tell you they are not a bit typical. They are the drugstore cowboys we always laughed at.

That is easy, that is how they want you to feel. Words can not hurt you. Violence can, but part of the rage on The Right is a product of their impotence. Yes, The Right is impotent and they can't stand it.

They know the government is perfectly capable of killing them or worse, letting them rot in prison. Only words...

Now of course there have been and there will be a series of murders caused by right wing politics. But those are not political acts. No matter how The Right tries to style itself, encouraging crazy people to murder innocents is central to its impotence.

"Even Timothy McVeigh's bombing was a long time ago and it engendered only revulsion. "

But today I don't think that would necessarily be the case. I saw no revulsion, no remorse, nothing from the right when the guy crashed his plane into the irs building in austin, killing one guy and would have killed maybe hundreds but for hitting something else first.R politicians shrugged it off, one or two said who could blame him--that is the main thing that has changed -- officials egging on violence. Several posters here cheered it.

Although I agree with you shrink, that the civil rights era was worse, but we are headed toward violence is my feeling. There's already been several cops murdered by anti-government thugs. And 12 bar, that's why it makes sane people nervous. You see all these enraged nuts walking around with assault weapons, you know at some point some of them will use them and it might be at a mall where you happen to be shopping.

12B I want to but I don't want to get into a detailed policy discussion on the Obama administration's handling of the oil disaster here, on this, a political thread about Harry Reid.

Otherwise, I couldn't feel superior to all the other people relentlessly imposing their own agenda's, non-sequiturs and etc.
One or two off topic remarks here and there are fine, but I am pretty exercised about the oil disaster, I feel so strongly about it...for most people, myself included, that is usually a sign that it is time to shut up.

I'd be glad to do it elsewhere. If you have a junk email address we could go there, or I could send you one I never use except for stuff like this.

Speaking of Glenn Beck, I find him to be the strangest person in politics talk shows. He makes Rush Limbaugh and company look positively sane. I would not be surprised at all that he is heavy on drugs.

But, my own daughter, thinks he makes sense. She's moderate. Can you believe that? But, I don't argue with her. Watch enough Beck and you'll finally see that crazed look in his eyes, and then you won't believe another word. Beck strikes me as a guy who's on the edge of a meltdown all the time.

As I said, I respectfully disagree. The Jim Crow to Civil Rights era killed many people and destroyed many more lives. The role of local, armed hate groups, could not be distinguished from the role of the local police, nor even elected officials.

Orval Faubus, for example, dared the United States to invade/occupy his state and they did. So far anyway, nothing today even comes close to the brutality of The Right during those times. Even Timothy McVeigh's bombing was a long time ago and it engendered only revulsion.

Some on the far right are not cowards, but the great majority of them are. The anonymity of the internet allows, may even cause them to exaggerate their intentions, just to get a response.

broadway wrote: I'm not convinced the average working person who doesn't follow political news knows what the baggers are about.
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You are right. Perhaps the MSM hasn't considered the TP movement to be significant enough to broadcast their views. I think David Brooks called this right when he predicted that the TP would have significant effect.

Yeah 12, I'm 60 and this is the most deranged I have ever seen this country. I mean, the civil rights era was pretty nasty, and very similar. People were very open then too about their racism.But they didn't have FOX news and other mass-hate propaganda outfits that legitmized their craziness, nor did they have so many, and so powerful, weapons, nor elected officials who egged them on to violence. So this is a far more dangerous time.

Posted by: drindl | May 29, 2010 2:01 PM
---------------------------------
I'm as interested in my own reaction to all this hate, as to the haters themselves. I think that I find the Sestak thread so disturbing, because I would hate to run into a few of these folks personally. I've spent too much time in cowboy bars to ignore the fact that rage-filled people start fistfights. Every time. That's why they have bouncers.

Perhaps, the internet has allowed these people to rehearse their rage, until it is honed to a fine edge. If these people tried to rant like this to their friends and co-workers, people would avoid them like hell.

The ragers justify their rage by saying the other side did it too (which has some truth). But, what kind of justification is that to say "I'm bad, but so are the other side". I'd be embarrassed.

Well 12Bar, if they are 'moderates' why would they vote for radical rightwingers with their crazy ideas and rhetoric. How many moderates do you think, are fans of this freak, for instance?

"In a Washington Post op-ed last month, Simon Greer — the president and CEO of Jewish Funds for Justice, an organization that helps people achieve social and economic security by investing in healthy neighborhoods — bluntly rebuked Glenn Beck for his war against social justice.

“Mr. Beck, you are a con man and America is not buying it,” Greer wrote. “When churches, synagogues, mosques, and other houses of worship across this country advocate for social justice, advocate for the common good, advocate for America, they, and we, walk in God’s path.”

Yesterday on his radio station, Beck responded the only way he knows how — with hyperbolic, extreme rhetoric referencing Nazi imagery. Beck said that Greer’s advocacy for the common good and social justice “leads to death camps.” “A Jew, of all people, should know that,” Beck added. “This is exactly the kind of talk that led to the death camps in Germany."

Most moderates that I have met don't have a problem with churches wanting to help the poor, for instance, which Glen Beck opposes.

I'm not convinced the average working person who doesn't follow political news knows what the baggers are about. The MSM has been covering up the baggers' agenda up, and, only when forced, do they discuss the baggers' actual views. Rand Paul and his Dad had been talking trash for decades yet the MSM kept it all under wraps until Randy's neo-segregationist meltdown on Dr. Maddow's show.

Yeah 12, I'm 60 and this is the most deranged I have ever seen this country. I mean, the civil rights era was pretty nasty, and very similar. People were very open then too about their racism.But they didn't have FOX news and other mass-hate propaganda outfits that legitmized their craziness, nor did they have so many, and so powerful, weapons, nor elected officials who egged them on to violence. So this is a far more dangerous time.

When an incumbent is sitting around 42 percent in the polling, it usually means that over 50 percent of the electorate has already made up their minds not to vote for him.

It is pretty simple.

If the incumbent is well known and his job performanc is well known, it is even harder to change those minds.

Harry Reid hurt himself badly with his statements that the Iraq war was lost - it was basically UNAMERICAN - and no one who has responsibilities in funding a war should EVER say anything like that.

Harry Reid was one face of the health care bill - and one that does not have a protected gerrymandered district - he is the first one the voters can go after - you can dream on if you think that isn't going to happen.

Baggers like Rand Paul and Sue Lowden present BHO with such a grooved fastball down the middle. They have already made enough racist and foolish statements (Abolishing the minimum wage? Chickens for Checkups?) to fill a year's worth of political attack ads. But BHO and his party don't seem to have the stomach to take them on.

BHO continues to whiff at their pitches, even the weak stuff like the Joe Sestak fake ocntroversy (BHO clearly should have ignored it all together or just pointed out that Bush One and Ray-Gun did precisely what he did with Joe--a two-day story at most if properly handled).

By contrast, week after week, BHO's opposition is able to tee up ridiculous, fact-free fake controversies and keep them going for weeks or not months, see, e.g., birthers.
________________

Never thought I'd say this but...they need to move HRC inside the White House as COS, Deputy COS, something, so her unbridled vengeance-fueled, pants-suited energy is put to good use. HRC would have had the baggers for lunch, IMO.

Mrs. Wm. Jefferson Clinton, forgive Fix for his insulting and profane video about you. Your country needs you now.

I sure hope you're right, that only 20% of the right is so enraged. Those people are truly repulsive. I'm old enough to remember when JFK was assassinated. When you drove down the street, I remember people just walking around kind of aimlessly, crying. A Republican who lived on our street, was raking his lawn furiously, even though snow was already starting, because he was so upset. I don't remember people clicking their heels that Kennedy was dead.

I suppose I'm just naive, but I still recoil when I read so many rage filled posts who are clearly unhinged. After all, Obama is just a man, not the demon they've made him out. Good Lord.

Harry Reid is backed by voters who know him and like him and will shoe up at the polls. The assortment of half-wits, wishful-thinkers and troglodytes thrown up by the GOP a become less popular the more the voters hear from them.

Reid's 432% will make it to the polls in November. The GOP voters will be unmotivated.

Love the quote from Marc Ambinder:
"Here is something I don't think Republican strategists in Washington...many of them, anyway, understand about conservative voters now. Their discontent with the [Republican] party is NOT about ideology. It is, quite simply, about them. The consultants. The leaders. The people who were NOT able to prevent Obama from becoming president. The people who were NOT able to prevent health care from being signed into law, despite promising that it wouldn't be. The people who fed the bailout engine. So ideas that seem extreme and bizarre to the powers that be [in the Republican party] might be more accepted by discontented voters simply because the mainstream forces consider them to be extreme."

drindl as we have fully discussed on previous occasions, the our integrated police, military and other armed services are the reason we have been relatively safe from domestic terrorists. Countries in which one or another ethnic group/tribe/clan dominates the government's armed forces...fall apart.

"I honestly think these people would cheer if the President was assassinated. I was shocked actually."

Oh, I think they pray for it every day. When a thread gets drudgebombed like it, I don't even bother. It's too base and disgusting to even look at.

I'm not saying there's not a lot of hateful, violent rightwing crazies, 12 -- I'd say a good 20% of the population or thereabouts. But, thank god, still a minority and therefore their candidates will mostly not win elections. When one of them does, we will have our next Joe McCarthy.

Depends. I consider scientific polls like Research 2000/Daily Kos. Sadly many polls are automated calls to 500 landphones that necessarily give you a skewed and/or inaccurate picture of public opinion. For example, regarding Reid, I find it hard to believe he has ever been tied or behind either of his two wacko opponents.

Hey yeah, if you want to know what BP is doing, don't listen to Doug "Baghdad Bob" Suttles.

They have stopped drilling the 2nd relief well and are moving the rig over the blowout. Planning to drop a new BOP on it...

I watched the (first?) failed attempt to start cutting cut the riser off this morning. Those robots sure are clumsy. Seems to me the logical maximum depth of drilling should be where people can work safely. Those Hubble repairs were amazing and the results, even more amazing.

Do you really distrust all polls? I put Rasmussen into the outlier category (usually they deviate significantly from other independent pollsters), and there are some other outliers on the other end of the spectrum, but I consider polls to be useful in assessing the CURRENT situation.

12: Many commentators, including Fix coworkers, have said these sociopathic baggers are today's version of the Klan and the Dixiecrats. Napolitano would do well to keep an eye on them. Many are domestic terrorists who do not try to hide what their violent agenda is...

Not really a "comeback" for Reid since I don't believe he was ever really behind. These polls are so pre-determined, unscientific, and agenda-driven they can't be trusted, see Rasmussen. Didn't Drudge's last "poll" have BHO losing by double digits or aomething?

But it's sad that Reid is having a hard time against two committed baggers, including Sue "Chickens for Checkups" Lowden. Reid by 6 percent in November.

drindl wrote: This jerk is one of the most popular creatures of the twisted right -- a man so low he would mock black kids on TV. This is why this 'movement' isn't going anywhere -- it's all based on hate.
-------------------------------------
I don't know, drindl, about the movement not going anywhere. Yesterday, reading through the barrage of hateposts about the Sestak controversy, I had the uneasy feeling that there are a LOT of REALLY angry people out there.

When I am outraged, I kind of squirm around, because, deep inside, rage is narcissistic in nature. I know that rage destroys ME, no one else. But, these people seemed so comfortable being enraged and righteous.

I see the Sestak thread has over 800 comments. From the tone of the comments (blaming Cillizza for not turning into a prosecutor)the desperation to hold on to this issue, is obvious. The commenters are holding on to this fantasy that they can get Obama out of office without winning at the polls, and to make the fantasy even better, to put him in jail.

I honestly think these people would cheer if the President was assassinated. I was shocked actually.

This jerk is one of the most popular creatures of the twisted right -- a man so low he would mock black kids on TV. This is why this 'movement' isn't going anywhere -- it's all based on hate.

"Beck’s apology came hours after the radio host and his sidekicks imitated a pretend conversation between the president and Malia, in which Beck has his version of 11-year-old ask a series of questions that included “Daddy…why do you hate black people so much?”

Beck’s routine was prompted by a remark Obama made in his press conference Thursday, in which he said Malia had asked him earlier in the morning of the BP oil spill, "Did you plug the hole yet, Daddy?"

"Is that's their - that's the level of their education, that they're coming to - they're coming to daddy and saying 'Daddy, did you plug the hole yet?' Plug the hole!" said Beck of Malia's comments. "

Harry Reid is the lucky recipient of what may become the big upset trend in this coming election -- teabaggers who win primaries but are too hate-filled/crazy to win a general.

In this case, one of his likely opponents wants voters to bargain for medical care with chickens, and the other wants to repeal Social Security -- not too popular an idea in a state with lots of senior citizens.

The rightwingers with their looniness and their hate agenda have sown the wind and will reap the whirlwind.

Reid has a ways to go before the Post can declare him the winner in Nevada.

Posted by: Dodgers1 | May 29, 2010 12:28 PM
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Agreed, dodgers. I think the point is that Reid's numbers are moving, and it's kind of difficult to move your numbers when everyone already knows you. So, probably, his numbers are beginning to move because his opponents numbers are moving in the other direction. But, one sparrow does not make a spring, as you point out.

Brigade wrote:
If Specter ran as an Independent in PENN, I would expect Toomey to cruise.

If I'm not mistaken, PA election laws prevent that at this juncture in the electoral season.

Toomey's biggest obstacle will be that he's not well-known outside his old Congressional district. Plus, his Club for Growth presidency will cause him to be perceived as too extreme by nearly all Democrats and a goodly proportion of Independents (maybe even a few Republicans), in a state that I believe has majority Democratic voter registration to start with. Barring a major meltdown by the Democrat, a Toomey victory seems highly unlikely in November.

First, it's too early before the November elections to gauge the accuracy of this poll. Second, the Washington Post and other liberal publications used one single poll only.

Before jumping to the conclusion that this dork has his groove back, check out RealClearPolitics.com. They actually use more than one poll. Reid has a ways to go before the Post can declare him the winner in Nevada.

According the the techie blog on the BP oil spill, the topkill attempt has failed and BP is cutting away the riser to try something else. It sounds like a variant of placing the dome over the well, only more engineered.

This description comes from RigZone:

LMRP Option

Being progressed in parallel with plans for the top kill is development of a lower marine riser package (LMRP) cap containment option. This would first involve removing the damaged riser from the top of the BOP, leaving a cleanly-cut pipe at the top of the BOP's LMRP. The LMRP cap, an engineered containment device with a sealing grommet, would be connected to a riser from the Discoverer Enterprise drillship and then placed over the LMRP with the intention of capturing most of the oil and gas flowing from the well and transporting it to the drillship on the surface. The LMRP cap is already on site and it is anticipated that this option will be available for deployment by the end of May.
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I don't know if the same risks of hydrate formation exists with the LMRP option, but it does involve cutting away the riser, which BP has been reluctant to do. But, it appears that more and more cracks are appearing on the riser from the topkill attempt, so the riser may just blow off anyway.

It's good to read that Nevada voters are swinging back toward Harry Reid, once they got a better look at the two non-mainstream Republican frontrunners.

Marc Ambinder, writing in the Atlantic, says this: "Here is something I don't think Republican strategists in Washington...many of them, anyway, understand about conservative voters now. Their discontent with the [Republican] party is NOT about ideology. It is, quite simply, about them. The consultants. The leaders. The people who were NOT able to prevent Obama from becoming president. The people who were NOT able to prevent health care from being signed into law, despite promising that it wouldn't be. The people who fed the bailout engine. So ideas that seem extreme and bizarre to the powers that be [in the Republican party] might be more accepted by discontented voters simply because the mainstream forces consider them to be extreme."

He was writing about Rand Paul's idea to repeal the 17th Amendment, but it applies to the Nevada race as well.

And, of course, Nevada's voters are beginning to realize the stupidity of voting out of office the most powerful man in the U.S. Senate. Take the recent example of South Dakota where voters defeated Democratic Senate leader Tom Dashle. Anyone heard since of John Thune? John who?

And, of course, Nevada's voters are beginning to realize the stupidity of voting out of office the most powerful man in the U.S. Senate. Take the recent example of South Dakota where voters defeated Democratic Senate leader Tom Dashle. Anyone heard since of John Thune?

"It is impossible to say and we will mount, as part of the aftermath, a very detailed environmental assessment but everything we can see at the moment suggests that the overall environmental impact will be very, very modest."

The aftermath? The aftermath!? He is talking about the aftermath on May 19? Well two weeks ago I knew and he did too about that which could not be seen, the volume of oil under the surface; it is what you can't see that will cause the environmental impact. So much for all those pictures of floaty orange booms, the "dispersed" oil is flowing right under them.

Reid has been a leader. Not a Tea Party of Hate leader like his republican colleagues.

He will win. You can't loose against Empty! The media has overestimated the popularity of Hate Politics. Americans have not changed. We are still a fair and decent people looking for a More Perfect Union.

So we learn Birbaum had the WorstWeek. She is a witch! Burn her! Burn her! How disgraceful. A blood sacrifice for the masses. It won't work.

"Two weeks ago, a Pew Research Center survey found that 36 percent of people disapproved of Obama's handling of the spill. This week, a CNN/Opinion Research Corporation poll found that 51 percent disapproved. Such has been the narrative of his presidency: being treated like the janitor in chief — mopping up messes made by others and being chastised for leaving streaks." Blow NYT

51% disapprove of speeches, 2 hour photo ops, scapegoats and promises? Jumping into bed with BP and vilifying them at the same time was foolish.

Sure it is actually Cheney's Katrina and no one thinks the US can stop the actual leak.
But you can't stage manage the worst environmental disaster in US history and you can't let BP control the flow of disinformation, propaganda, memes and outright lies.

Hey Chris, the winner of the Nevada Senate race does not need 50%+1. They only need a plurality of the ovte, and with up to 9 choices on the ballot, inlcuding none of the above, a head to head poll that has REid in the mid 40s is actually fairly decent.

58-year-old multimillionaire and former beauty queen Sue Lowden may still have good looks on the outside but on the inside she is a duplicitous, controlling, power-hungry woman who would forget Nevada's needs and do the bidding of Washington's power elite in a heartbeat. Anyone who has seen her in action can tell you the same.

"The idea that oil rises quickly to the surface of an ocean may be one of the casualties of this disaster."

________________________________________

Well - the dispersant is what is keeping the oil below the surface.

If there was no dispersant, the oil would float to the top of the water and spread out in one giant slick.

Instead, the dispersant is breaking the oil up into a globs - the chemicals of the dispersant are acting around the globs so they form globs instead of an oil slick at the surface.

Somehow the globs are heavier or closer to the weight of water.

Remember about half the crude is evaporating in this process - part is the pressure of the water so far below - part is the temperature - part is the waves - part is the dispersant - but the process of evaporation appears to be accelerated.

The tar would normally take much longer to be the final result - the evaporation will happen anyway, just at a different rate.

Anyway, the dispersant is what is making the difference in whether the oil is floating immediately or not.

Oil still floats on water.

It is an open question whether these suspended tar balls are easier to clean up than the oil slick would have been - they are still there.

The oil slick would have presented an opportunity to burn off - but somehow that plan appears to have been stopped somehow by someone.

John, I was never real unimpressed with Reid, but I thought he did real well getting the bill through. It's hard to appreciate the difficulty of his job. Pelosi gets a lot of credit (rightfully so) but the Senate is such a different beast with the filibuster right at the top of the list.

But the 111th Congress is one of the most productive ones in memory. Unfortunately, we're in a situation where we have to sprint to stand still, but I guess that's how it goes. Vote Republican until we are in a recession. Let Democrats bail the country out. Vote Republican again, rinse and repeat.

@DDAWD, Shrink - My last email wasn't entirely responsive. It was like hearing an adult speaking truth to the kids. LA is being screwed. Wyoming gets 50% of the royalties, but LA gets squat. Someone tweets in snarkily and he put said jerk in his place. Robinette was terrific.

I was pretty unimpressed with Ried until he showed the guts, determination, and good old fashioned political horse sense to get the health law passed. A real American leader. Far sterner stuff than it had appeared for some time. A defining moment came at the health summit when alexander had gone on for 15 minutes about nothing, offering up the standard set of gop lies and Ried called him out to his face. Said that republicons are certainly free to have different opinions, but they are not entitled to an entirely fictional set of "facts."

But I think this hemorrhage is going to be the Gulf's Chernobyl. Going to destroy the industry for a decade.

Krauthammer made an interesting point in today's column. If you accept the risk of these leaks as a price of doing business, why not drill offshore in Alaska? A spill there and a spill in the GoMex both have terrible ecological impact, but at least one isn't going to destroy a major fishing center.

@Brigade - If you look at the posting timeline, the number of posts suddenly accelerated at 1:43 p.m. Dollars to doughnuts, that's when the link appeared. Same thing happened to the Plum Line earlier today. But hey, more clicks means braces for Fix Jr.

..."Givem hell...Harry! Your doing a great job sir, thanks for passing the U.S. Stimulus Bill, thank you for passing Health Care Reform, thank you for "Steam Rolling over my two U.S. Senators who have stood in the way of change since their boy blew it bush left town, with the "Lowest Job Approval rating in the history of the United States Presidency, 20 PERCENT! I wish Tennesse had you sir for a United States Senator instead of the two fools we do have that line their bank accounts and pockets at the expense of Tennessean who go right out and vote right against themselves!

..."Thanks from this registered Voter/Vet USAF, for cleaning up a record/Mess the Republicans dumped in all our laps, and thanks for bringing about change when the party of "NO" Republicans/minority did all they could to stop it!

Brigade, are you saying that Crist or Rubio takes 70% of the vote if the other isn't running? That's about what the two are pulling down combined in the polls.

Posted by: DDAWD | May 28, 2010 7:27 PM
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You wouldn't think so. I'm just saying that with them splitting the Republican vote, it would seem like an opportunity for Democrats; but they aren't putting forth a very good candidate. Some of Crist's votes may very well come from Democrats who aren't excited about Meeks.

If Specter ran as an Independent in PENN, I would expect Toomey to cruise.

If you truly want to know what is going on; Then you will have to accept these things as the TRUTH. Once you understand the following things; All things will be understood. So I tell you Obama is the Anti-Christ, Satan on Earth, Lawless One, or what ever else you want to call this Demonic Figure. His words describe him, He is a False Hope, If you listen to him you will love him. He carries a Bow without an Arrow. He will conquer all through his speech, his false hoods will capture all who sit and listen to him.

If you truly want to know what is going on; Then you will have to accept these things as the TRUTH. Once you understand the following things; All things will be understood. So I tell you Obama is the Anti-Christ, Satan on Earth, Lawless One, or what ever else you want to call this Demonic Figure. His words describe him, He is a False Hope, If you listen to him you will love him. He carries a Bow without an Arrow. He will conquer all through his speech, his false hoods will capture all who sit and listen to him.

Let's look at where harry's ratings took the nose dive that put them where they are:

When the Senate got down to work on Obama's platform, and especially when it began working on Health care reform, The dump Harry Reid forces kept up a tobacco auctioneer's patter of how harry was so poor a leader that he couldn't get Health care through a filibuster proof Senate.

Now the R, whichever zany wins the nomination, has to find a platform to run on, and that platform, "Harry can't get anything done" is sort of multiply redundantly bad, since it is now quite demonstrably untrue, and his problems getting things done can be blamed on the very Republicans who are running against him.

So here comes someone known largely for proposing a return to the barter system as an alternative to a real national health care system, (And with the oompah-loompah from Westchester supporting it with a repeal bill in the House), and with the rest of her platform even sillier, and she is going to have to go out there and talk about something.

And if Chicken Sue fails to get the nod, her closest competitor is more unknown and less solidly based in the real world.

OK, so son of shark gets the nod, does his dad's chops at UNLV get him as many "I wouldn't vote for that idiot's son, ever" votes than in gets him season ticket holder's votes?

Come November when across the nation religious zealots in white robes run around yelling, VOTE REPUBLICAN THE END IS NEAR!, and the one third of the Republicans running for Congress are even crazier, good old calm, unemotional Harry will be a whole lot better choice than whatever raving lunatic is running against him.

Harry Reid's seat is ripe for the taking, but you can't beat something with nothing. Where are the major parties finding these candidates? A Republican party split in Florida, and the best the Democrats come up with is a guy expected to finish third. A major attempt to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory in Kentucky by Republicans nominating someone pretty far outside the mainstream. And with the CT Democratic candidate on the ropes, Republicans are going to nominate a wrestling promoter's wife?

Republican senator Coburn responded the other morning to a comment about Congress's 23% approval rating (or whatever miserable number it is) by saying something like, "I'd like to know who the 23% are and what they're smoking." And his disdain was for Republicans as well as Democrats, and their utter failure over the past 10 years to be fiscally responsible.

But instead of giving us better candidates, they give us more losers to choose from.

Brigade, the Sestak story and the oil presser probably constitute the biggest ch inks in Obama's armor to this date which has the lunatics frothing. Look at the thread on the press conference. You should have seen zook. He completely went off the deep end.

Wow, what happened over on the Sestak thread? 432 posts and counting, most of them from people with monikers I'm not familiar with. Lots more conservatives than usual, and some of them as loonie as the liberals. I'm not saying this Sestak story is unimportant, but with all the stuff going on in the world, it's gotta be pretty far down the list. Why all the excitement?

Harry Reid is willing to be unpopular in order to drive important legislation that we all need. I admire him for that -- a lot of political leadership (especially on the right) has been afraid to step up and legislate.

It's a long time until election day, and considering what the Republicans have found to run against him you may find that Harry Reid's 42% shows up at the polls in November, and the other 58% stays home, embarrassed by what their party offers them.

DDAWD, you know and I know that a Senate majority leader can be beaten. I'm talking about voter perceptions, not political reality.

All other things being equal, someone with such a lofty post can get an air of inevitability about him. No matter what the national political environment, Reid is by default seen as a harder target than some other random Democratic Senator, and voters hate that air of inevitability. Republicans may have taken that air of inevitability away from him too soon.

Harry Reid is one of the worst senators to ever befoul Congress. He is a sniveling, grasping, partisan hack. The only other senator to come close to Reid in political hackery is Arlen Specter, the human reptile. If Reid gets re-elected either the voters of Nevada have all lost their minds or there is corruption at work.

"If the guy is good enough to become the top dog in the Senate, what chance do you have of beating him,"

Err...it's not as hard as you might think...

But part of it is that it comes down to candidates. None of these R candidates are very strong and Lowden has been just downright nutty. Angle I just don't think can win a general.

I think this will be the saving grace for Democrats this cycle. Their approval ratings are low, but candidates matter and Republicans seem to be getting some bad ones. It's pretty inexcusable for Reid to be running this close. If he wins, that's a huge wasted opportunity for Republicans. And this political environment is fleeting. Obama goes back on the ballot in two years. Democrats had good environments the last two elections and maximized the hell out of them. In 2006, Dems won almost every close Senate race to pick up six seats with Corker just squeaking through to keep Bill Frist's TN seat in the red and then another eight in 2008. Point is that Dems maximized their chances when the environment was good for them and now that the tables have turned somewhat, they can at least maintain their majorities and rebuild in 2010. Republicans are squandering the same opportunity now.

Maybe Nevadans are finally realizing that the Tea Party Nuts duped them into thinking they were a real political force to be reckoned with, as opposed to a bunch of Extremist Right-Wing racist political hacks.

Stranger things have happened this year...One canidate ran on PRO life, PRO gun and repeal HCR and yes he won...HE is a democrat...so yes voters are stupid they do not think of the past just whats in front of them. So Harry, the war is lost Reid, has about as much chance of winning as a snowballs chance in IRAQ.

CC, you will be writing a lot of articles like this for the Democrats, and it all comes down to one thing. The anger that was fueling the rise of the tea party and which has overtaken the GOP peaked. Once HCR passed even though the GOP had 41 seats Reid moved to passing things that everyone supports. Now the Tea Party people like Angle and Paul are the voices of the GOP and the moderate majority of the country doesn't like what they are hearing.

I wonder if Harry Reid's early polling troubles -- the ones that seemed to paint his defeat as all but inevitable -- might have eventually worked to his advantage.

Voters hate the idea that a candidate's victory is inevitable, and Reid, by virtue of his being Senate majority leader, seemed to have that air of inevitability about him. If the guy is good enough to become the top dog in the Senate, what chance do you have of beating him, as opposed to some Senate newbie in Virginia or something, you know? The Republicans in the race took voters' distaste for inevitability and overgeneralized, irrational anger toward sitting politicians, and used them to boost their own numbers at Reid's expense. But they might have done too good a job, because the narrative eventually changed to suggest that any Republican who got the nomination would trounce Reid in the general -- making the Republican the "inevitability" candidate and scaring off some of the voters who dislike inevitability.

Or it could just be what's happening with the governor's race in Ohio, where voters are starting to learn about the challengers and realizing they're not the paragons of perfection they claimed to be early on, when they could run on their opponents' records and not mention their own. I don't know. I don't live in Nevada.

Either way, if Reid pulls ahead in the closing weeks of the race and eventually winds up the winner, that'll be something, won't it?