Yeah, right. Without Lippi and Trap, Juve would be behind Inter and AC Milan. Btw, you were owned by @Ocelot and @pitbull

btw, if you say i was owned, it means i was 100% correct

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Originally Posted by Ocelot

In that case you really have to rate Fergie as the greatest coach ever, by some margin even?

how would you rate Klopp if starting from 2012 25 years into the future he overtakes Bayern in BLs won and wins a couple of CLs? at the same time, how would you rate Dortmund among the biggest clubs in football?

how would you rate Klopp if starting from 2012 25 years into the future he overtakes Bayern in BLs won and wins a couple of CLs? at the same time, how would you rate Dortmund among the biggest clubs in football?

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Marc

Answer my question.

And if Klopp would turn BVB into a side with 20 German titles & 3 (?) CLs, they'd definitely belong in there with the others mentioned.

And if Klopp would turn BVB into a side with 20 German titles & 3 (?) CLs, they'd definitely belong in there with the others mentioned.

Fergie is definitely one of the greatest coaches ever, probably the one with most trophies won ever too (not 100% sure about this), i never claimed otherwise. but THE greatest? no. the EPL during his time there was the biggest league in Europe for only about 4-5 years, and his european record isnt great enough to compensate for that. did a great job with Aberdeen too though. he also never did anything as a NT coach.

how do you rate him btw, and you never answered the 1st part of my question about Klopp either

@Marc, heres the deal. United before SAF hasnt won a title for a long time, they were kinda like Liverpool now (a FA Cup here and there but 30something years without a title). After he left they again cant win the league or in Europe (they were in a CL final just 2 years before he left), and they had some big names as their managers, while spending 200M a summer. Us? We were successful before Trapp, he left and we still were successful, Lippi left and we again remained successful, Capello was somewhat successful, then Calciopoli happened but after we recovered we are again successful with 2 different coaches (we even finished 2nd and 3rd in the 1st 2 seasons we returned). Its not that hard to conclude that our success isnt dependant on who our coach is, unlike United.

And yes, UEFA Cup was underrated, before UEFA decided to make it a pathetic competition. You had Champions playing the Champions League, Cup winners the Cup winners Cup, and 2nd, 3rd etc placed teams in what is now the Europa League. Thats as if today we would have a competition with Arsenal, City, Tottenham, Real, Atletico, Sevilla, Monaco, Lyon, Napoli, Roma, Dortmund, Leverkusen, Porto all playing there, which would have been much stronger than it is currently. It was a strong competition, in some seasons even stronger than the CL, but ever since we have the top4 clubs go into the CL it has lost a lot of quality and apeal

@Marc, heres the deal. United before SAF hasnt won a title for a long time, they were kinda like Liverpool now (a FA Cup here and there but 30something years without a title). After he left they again cant win the league or in Europe (they were in a CL final just 2 years before he left), and they had some big names as their managers, while spending 200M a summer. Us? We were successful before Trapp, he left and we still were successful, Lippi left and we again remained successful, Capello was somewhat successful, then Calciopoli happened but after we recovered we are again successful with 2 different coaches (we even finished 2nd and 3rd in the 1st 2 seasons we returned). Its not that hard to conclude that our success isnt dependant on who our coach is, unlike United.

And yes, UEFA Cup was underrated, before UEFA decided to make it a pathetic competition. You had Champions playing the Champions League, Cup winners the Cup winners Cup, and 2nd, 3rd etc placed teams in what is now the Europa League. Thats as if today we would have a competition with Arsenal, City, Tottenham, Real, Atletico, Sevilla, Monaco, Lyon, Napoli, Roma, Dortmund, Leverkusen, Porto all playing there, which would have been much stronger than it is currently. It was a strong competition, in some seasons even stronger than the CL, but ever since we have the top4 clubs go into the CL it has lost a lot of quality and apeal

Yeah, I also seen Milan fans saying they are the biggest club in Italy. Still think Juventus got the upper hand. They may have won a lot in Europe, but you dominated Serie A. Its close, but Juventus is bigger

Yeah, I also seen Milan fans saying they are the biggest club in Italy. Still think Juventus got the upper hand. They may have won a lot in Europe, but you dominated Serie A. Its close, but Juventus is bigger

I know, right. Don't even get me started on . They think they are bigger than both Juventus and AC Milan.