TimeLine as of 10/12/08

I'm not buying it. I think the whole thing was planned and premeditated from the beginning.

I believe the whole thing is leading up doing away with money and sticking barcodes on everyone.

Think about it. They will never be able to pay all that debt. Everything collapses and that's how they become a one world thing. Through the
banks, by creating an international system they become a one world.

Why do you think they are all getting together on the banking and so fast with so many countries involved?

I too have been keeping as much cash on hand as possible. I just don't have a lot of confidence in the government PERIOD. They say that we are
covered up to 250,000.00 but since everything else they have told us appears to have been lies, I say my cash feels better with me then in the bank.

Originally posted by John_Q_Llama
Excellent thread. Thanks for the lengthy summation of the situation.

Given my financial status, am I in a good or bad position for riding out this economic storm? Any why would that be?

The other question I have is regarding nationalization. What exactly does that mean other than that the government would ownership of assets,
industry, etc.?

Thanks

Here's the Wiki on Nationalizatoin That will explain some of what it means, look though the
different countries to see what has been nationalized and how that has worked out for them in the long run.

As for the financial storm...

I am not an "expert" by any means, keeping track of current events does not require anything more than time and effort, but I see a short period
(how short? your guess is as good as mine) of deflation, where things actually get less expensive. Use this time to your advantage. Stock up on
non-perishables, rice, legumes, sugar, etc. And other necessary items like toilet paper and other hygiene products.

If for some reason TPTB manage to solve this crisis, well, you have supplies for a while, if not, then when the credit freeze affects your local
store's ability to restock it's shelves, you are prepared.

If you choose to invest in precious metals (gold, silver) make sure you purchase the actual metal and not the paper form. Certificates may be
worthless if things really fall apart.

Discipline yourself to learn how to live with less. For now, only purchase what you need, not things you want. It is not time to capitalize on
dropping prices for 22 in monitors or 72 in flat screen TVs.

If you have a vehicle, stay on the half tank rule (fill up at half a tank of gas not empty) or keep a back up supply of fuel (don't forget stabilizer
if you are storing it for over 30 days). Also, make sure the vehicle is in good repair, if not, get that tune up, repairs or new set of tires you
need while we are in the deflationary period.

It infuriates me that because a massive number of greedy gamblers lost big, the rest of the world's financial markets will be screwed for years. The
US Treasury printing money to prop up this mess is not the answer, people should be going to prison for a very long time. Unfortunately alot of the
really big shots in the financial market are on the board of the Treasury and have alot of political clout, so prison is not an option.

The financial system should be allowed to recover normally without the Govts interferring too much, weed out the corrupt, greedy and the idiots and
get on with the job in a more responsible manner than previously. Obviously everyone has a short memory, 1920's, 1987, dot.com bubble, etc.
Ah, it's good to have a rant.
p.s I'm a Finance student, not a hippy with no idea

Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial, testing which shall come upon the whole world, to test
those who dwell on the Earth. Behold, I AM coming QUICKLY! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown.

Originally posted by Shar_Chi
Reset to zero means people with mortgages get to keep their homes? Car loans? Lines of credit? Man, that would be the sweetest result imaginable! I'd
walk off into the forest, whistling

Dream on not a hope in hell. It doesn't work like that. The one thing that will remain is the money we owe to banks. The money we have invested in
savings, pensions etc that can disappear.....into the pockets of the few people who will still be rich.

The sad thing about all this is is that the system does need saving otherwise we really will lose our savings and pensions and the rich will still be
rich. Despite all the anger around and calls for the instigators to be hung drawn and quartered. They will get away with it. We have two choices:

1. Let the system collapse, we all lose everything, we still have to pay our debts and the suits that caused this remain rich.
2. Rescue the system, we keep our savings and pensions, we still have to pay our debts and the suits that caused this remain rich.

Number 2 is a nightmare for governments due to the unrest and turnmoil with millions thrown into poverty. Number 1 is business as usual.

It's a simple as that! The interesting thing about sabing the banks is the method employed. Are there any governements brave enough to nationalise
ther banks, give the tax payers the benefits and curb the suits excessive profit sharing? So far it looks like the UK is a partial yes, the US is
scared sh.tless about the implications (socialism via the back door etc etc), Germany is likely to follow the UK lead.

There are those on the left (although not me despite being a lefty) who want to see collapse because of their hatred for suits that caused this but
they really need to take a broader look at the world. The banks are the devil that we need unfortunately. There is no viable alternative at present.
Remember no matter what alternate system is introduced to control the flow of money there is no infrastucture in place to do it. That infrastucture
is with the existing banking system. It would take years to replace it. Hopefully it will happen but letting the current system collapse is NOT the
solution.

I think that would be unlikely. That would mean the Elite Creditors would not stand to get repaid. Of course the little guys will be happy for
debt erasure, but the agenda has not been to help the lowly indebted peasants. What Creditors at the top of the food chain are going to agree to wipe
out debt burden?

After reading this thread, and it is very interesting, and it goes with what I've been saying to the family, that the world is in for a rocky
ride.
I have warned the family to buy lots of rice and pasta (dried foods that will last) and bottled water, Now it may seem a bit extreme, but here's a
little background about myself.
I work for the Bank of England ( nothing too fancy just a clerk) but I'm not all that financially savvy , same as the rest of the avergae staff here.
We all have loans, cars , mortgages ,credit cards, and for people to say it's ok is a load of BS, the world's markets are in freefall with no
parachute.
We had another company going into adminisration this morning, (won't say which but its not all that important) it seems to be the norm this month,
theres a company going belly up every day now.
As for talk of a 'one world currency, I can't see (while its a good idea for us little people to have all our debts 'cancelled') how it would come
into effect. and besides do you really think that the people that you all owe money to are going to just say " yeah , sure, forget the debt you owe
us"? of course they wont, they'll just adjust it to the new currency and you'll be stuck anyway.
Besides all the super elitists who want the 'one world currency' aren't too worried about electronic money ( it doesn't exist ) or the paper one,
if it all is worthless you know that they are going to be buying as much precious metals are they can before the money really is worthless. So my
advice to you all is " Buy as much gold and silver as you can ". no point with Palladium or Platinum as both of those look like silver and
99.999999% of the worlds people don't carry devices to tell the different metals apart, if it looks like silver , its silver, but gold is universally
known and coveted. SO buy it and that way when the NWO want to buy it in builk they'll be unpleasently surprised when they can't get any... then
we'll own the NWO ..
Whilst I would Love to put one over the NWO , I can't help but feel that a one currency would be some much more beneficial to us all, there'd be no
more worrying at the airport , have you got enough foreign money?
But if they were to 'reset' the economy to zero, all those people with savings, My question is would they lose it all? whilst those with debts
(myself included) would have those debts forgotten? I'd find it hard to accept that the world would allow this situation, it is too engrossed in the
fight of trying to get one over someones elses currency, there's too much bickering going on to just let the OWC slip into effect.
Besides what fun would I have of buying all the stuff I can in the States coz its a third to half the price it is over here in the UK. I wouldn't be
surprised if they started the OWC already with the Amero. What a dull name.. all future currency should be called 'credits' anyway like in all the
sci-fi films and books

1. £500 Billion being loaned out of my money to the banks, I dont remember being asked if that was ok, but ill let that go.

2. The banks are then going to lend that back to me with interest (give me some of that :wow

3. The bank then make money of the interest i am paying back to the banks, as they are majority shareholders, no doubt interest rates will go sky high
during this time.

4. Inflation will fall after interest rates go sky high for a few years. So it will be seen as a safe time for the government to sell on the shares it
owns out of my money. Immediatley after the sale, inflation will no doubt go up, interest rates come down and hey presto, we can start all this again

Im thinking about going and having a look around my newly aquired companies tommorrow, just there books, the layout etc get a feel for what ive
bought.

1. Northern Rock
2. Bradford and Bingley
3. RBS
4. HBOS
5 Lloyds TSB

"In case you hadn't already worked it out - the entire global financial system is predicated on the assumption that you're an idiot."

Interesting group with interesting opinions but none seem to be translating it down to what a simple man or woman can apply to themselves and their
lives.

Allow me to provide a simple translation; there is "Them" and "Everyone Else"; you are with with "Them" who control the military, law
enforcement etc etc etc and who represent the 3% that won this world, plus the 33% that serve them plus the 20% who are dependents, including those
"Their Prisons"...which basically translates out to "Them Representing/Controlling about 56% of our Population"...that leave 44% representing
Everyone Else and amongst those there are at least 10% who have never done anything and never will. Soooo, let's for the sake of reality assume
there are 34% who would do something about all of this if we could agree upon what to do and get behind a leader that was prepared to do anything
significant. LOL I laugh, EVERYBODY ELSE is not going to do S--T, except be grease if they get in the way of the wheel of the machine "Them"
have put in place.

Come on, even ATS has Advertising for Police and Law Enforcement Training Companies. "Everybody Else" have nothing going for it except the truth and
let's face it the truth has never had much to do with anything.

Some of you think Obama will save you...Geezz, Obama is not only a New World Order Champion but he is not even a Natural Born American. Or maybe you
think Ron Paul is going to step up and lead "Everybody" to the promise land...lol...I would trust the man running my company or delivering a baby
but he is no Warrior or leader who is going to charge the hill.

The American Dream is a lie; what so many of you are so proud of has been based on lies. Come on...wake up. Abe Lincoln was not the man you think he
was, nor were the Founding Fathers...George Washington was a "Kept Man" living off his wife's money...he was a Great Dresser tho. Lies..so many
lies and liars. This country was built upon lies and the blood of the innocent.

You want Gay Marriage..fine...you want to believe in a religion that is one spin or another that worships the Sun and Planets...fine...you want Free
Porn..fine...you all have gotten exactly what you wanted and soon you are going to pay the piper.

The New World Order is going to happen and those of you who are silly enough to fight it...your blood will go to grease the wheels. Come on, you are
all self serving hypocrites...you would betray your own mother, brother, aunt, uncle or child to survive Or maybe you think on Oct 14th Aliens are
going to arrive to lead man into a new world...trust me, they don't need billions of selfish, self serving, self important piss ants to do
anything

On a more Cosmic level, trust me when I say that the creative force behind all that exists loves all of this...the good and the bad..the happy and the
said and finds it all very entertaining. He/she/it thrives on change and trust me when I say that things are going to be changing. Most of you have
been living on credit for so long that you don't realize what parasites you are.

Sooo, get ready, they will crash the dollar, move us to the Amero or some new currency, force the National ID card upon all of us and then the Chip.
The deck is going to be reshuffled...no doubt about it but those who have always come out on top will always come out on top and Everybody IS Just
Fodder for "Them".

If you are young, join "Them" if they will have you, if you one of the rest, get out your flag and play like you love whomever comes out as the
Figure Head...Obama,McCain....it does not matter and will change nothing.

Me? I have been hording Gold for years; have metal containers full of everythjing people really need to live and as things get worse I will buy more
for pennies on the dollar. Contractor Tools from all those craftsmen that built all those 3,00 sq ft cracker boxes for all you Americans are on my
list of late...generators, water pumps...stuff people always need. Most of you are screwed

"The BoE, ECB, and SNB will conduct tenders of U.S. dollar funding at 7-day, 28-day, and 84-day maturities at fixed interest rates for full
allotment. Funds will be provided at a fixed interest rate, set in advance of each operation.

Counterparties in these operations will be able to borrow any amount they wish against the appropriate collateral in each jurisdiction.

Accordingly, sizes of the reciprocal currency arrangements (swap lines) between the Federal Reserve and the BoE, the ECB, and the SNB will be
increased to accommodate whatever quantity of U.S. dollar funding is demanded.

The Bank of Japan will be considering the introduction of similar measures."

So instead of just taking your savings and pensions, they have decided to pump the global system with so much fiat money that anything you think you
have will still be worthless.

The US dollar which is only equal to 4 cents of the 1929 dollar is going to be worth a negative number in no time. At least in terms of buying
power.

But you will still see your little credits recorded in your pensions and savings account, just be sure not to look behind the curtain, you really
don't want to see the monster hiding behind it

(1) If I have a pension I can kiss it goodbye
(2) If I have savings I can kiss those goodbye
(3) Debt is good so long as my bank goes under
(4) Debt is bad if my bank survives

Whilst some of these points are clearly facetious in nature, they still represent some of the questions that a lot of people seem to be asking at the
moment. Principally, if people have investments, are they safe? Something which I suspect will vary depending upon where investments have been made,
i.e. property, gold etc... may remain relatively stable whilst investments in oil or financial products may result in widescale losses.

In addition, people are asking about their debt position. What happens to existing personal debt if banks dissolve? Will they be better or worse
off?

I don't pretend to have extensive financial information available to me and was wondering what the opinion of forum members may be on these
questions?

Originally post by redhatty
But you will still see your little credits recorded in your pensions and savings account, just be sure not to look behind the curtain, you really
don't want to see the monster hiding behind it

Yes, hyperinflation can never be good. We just need to look at Russia after the Communism meltdown and breakup of the USSR. Loaves of bread costing as
much as a month's salary and rising each day in an uncontrolled manner.

Hyperinflation could pave the way towards the introduction of a new monetary standard, or a reversion to an old standard (i.e. gold standard). You
have to be able to set a standard against something with a "true" value so that consumers can have confidence that the "promise" that money
represents will be fulfilled. Just printing money and releasing it into the economy will destabilise everything and ultimately result in an even
bigger crash.

To be honest, I don't fancy taking a wheelbarrow down to the supermarket to do my weekly shopping because the money I need won't fit in my wallet.

Originally posted by Tytanius
Principally, if people have investments, are they safe? Something which I suspect will vary depending upon where investments have been made, i.e.
property, gold etc... may remain relatively stable whilst investments in oil or financial products may result in widescale losses.

Depends on what happens. Sorry, but my magic eight ball is replying unclear ask again later

For the short term, while your pensions may rise and fall, they will still be there. The problem is, that when it comes time for you to withdraw
them, we will most likely be in full blown hyperinflationary stage, so your purchasing power will be less.

the property bubble is on a dying life support system. Property values are dropping, but your mortgage isn't changing to reflect the loss in equity.

Gold is doing some strange things, so you may still be good with that, but if you have gold on the exchange, all you have is a piece of paper, not the
actual metal in hand. That could disappear.

If your bank goes under, it will either be absorbed by a larger bank or nationalized, either way, whatever debts you have to it will still have to be
paid.

And even with all these stick save measures, there is no guarantee that this will open up the credit market again. We will have to sit back and wait
to see if banks will start lending to each other again and how the markets ultimately react to endless fiat.

I expect a rally today, but what you won't realize is that the rally will just be the opportunity for many people to get out of the market completely
and hopefully with a little money in their pocket. How long will the rally last? Again, depends on if credit lines open up.

Originally post by redhatty
But you will still see your little credits recorded in your pensions and savings account, just be sure not to look behind the curtain, you really
don't want to see the monster hiding behind it

Yes, hyperinflation can never be good. We just need to look at Russia after the Communism meltdown and breakup of the USSR. Loaves of bread costing as
much as a month's salary and rising each day in an uncontrolled manner.

Hyperinflation could pave the way towards the introduction of a new monetary standard, or a reversion to an old standard (i.e. gold standard). You
have to be able to set a standard against something with a "true" value so that consumers can have confidence that the "promise" that money
represents will be fulfilled. Just printing money and releasing it into the economy will destabilise everything and ultimately result in an even
bigger crash.

To be honest, I don't fancy taking a wheelbarrow down to the supermarket to do my weekly shopping because the money I need won't fit in my wallet.

Regards,

Tytanius.

this is precisely the reason I've told friends and family to start stocking up on dried foodstuffs (rice and pasta's), maybe I'm a little paranoid
but better safe than sorry in my opinion.

I find this whole situation sickening. The entire "financial system" turned out to be one big pyramid scheme. The top of the pyramid remains
untouchable and stinking rich. The lower echelons tremble in fear and see their whole life savings in danger.

I'm from Belgium and 2 of our 3 major banks have been nationalized and divided up (France took some as did Holland). Our government promised to
guarantee up to 100.000€ for their customers (was 25.000 before all this started). A bank in Luxembourg, a neighboring country, went belly up 2 days
ago. People who had their savings there are royally screwed.

I HOPE that every single bank gets nationalized. There should be control on what happens with OUR money. Imagine banks which main focus is to get US
more money instead of getting THEIR shareholders (and CEOs) more money.

Originally posted by John_Q_Llama
My wife and I live in an apartment, so we have no mortgage to worry about. This week we'll be paying off the last of our debt, so I'll be able to
start saving up some cash (it's feeling more like the term "credits" is appropriate these days when talking about currency since it's all virtual)
again now that we're in the clear. So, no loans, no credit cards...no debt. I have never put money into 401K because I never felt comfortable with
that system, and now I'm sort of glad I went that route. My question is this: Given my financial status, am I in a good or bad position for riding
out this economic storm? Any why would that be?

You are in a bad situation no matter what, especially during an economic storm. You said you have no savings and no investments and no retirement
fund. That is a bad status no matter what. What happens if you get laid off? Unless you are in a highly stable job such as a doctor, nurse,
accountant, etc. Or what happens if you or your wife gets sick? You may be paying off your debt, but you still don't have a good financial status.
Especially if there is a deep recession.

The other question I have is regarding nationalization. What exactly does that mean other than that the government would ownership of assets,
industry, etc.? I'd rather not have the government meddling in more than they already do, but are there any benefits to nationalizing crippled
sectors and corporations? And is nationalization usually permanent, or can it be beneficial as a temporary implementation?

Nationalization is usually permanent if you are in a country that is following communism or socialism. In the U.S. and Europe it will not be
permanent. They will probably eventually begin selling off assets when it is a good time to do so.

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