News:

MysticWicks endorsement: ""Oooh, I'm a Discordian! I can do whatever I want! Which means I can just SAY I'm a pagan but I never bother doing rituals or studying any kind of sacred texts or developing a relationship with deity, etc! I can go around and not be Christian, but I won't quite be anything else either because I just can't commit and I can't be ARSED to commit!"

Holocaust survivors are absolutely entitled to draw meaningful comparisons to Hitler, and are worth listening to. That being said, a Holocaust survivor making extremely reserved comments about being weary of demagogues doesn't give random crazies on the Internet license to claim that someone is literally a Nazi.

Discussing this woman's experiences and the merits of her testimony? No, that's not Godwin's Law, and thank you for providing the link. The stupid shit that Vivat and Roger are trolling? Totally Godwin's Law.

Logged

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche

Holocaust survivors are absolutely entitled to draw meaningful comparisons to Hitler, and are worth listening to. That being said, a Holocaust survivor making extremely reserved comments about being weary of demagogues doesn't give random crazies on the Internet license to claim that someone is a Nazi.

Discussing this woman's experiences and the merits of her testimony? No, that's not Godwin's Law, and thank you for providing the link. The stupid shit that Vivat and Roger are trolling? Totally Godwin's Law.

Check out this trollbait I laid earlier.

Quote

"Intentionalist historians of Nazi Germany traditionally emphasize the unique role of Hitler in legitimizing and directing Nazi rule from the very beginning of the movement (Jaeckel 1972; Bracher 1979).7 On this view, German fascism is seen as a ‘monocratic’ system of rule (Alleinherrschaft) which is not only dependent on the ideological vision of the leader but on his personal decision making. As structuralist historians argue, however, this interpretation downplays the multi-dimensional nature of decision making in the Third Reich and the deliberate cultivation of the ‘Führer myth’ as a legitimation device, which allowed Nazi rulers to attribute policy successes to the leader while blaming lesser functionaries for the chaotic reality of polycratic rule (Broszat 1981; Mason 1971; Mommsen 1991b). As Kershaw points out, this allowed the Nazi elite to project an image of the Führer as a leader without sin, a person who could transcend sectional interests and rise above everyday political squabbles."

Or this, thanks to Cain BTW:

Quote

"Fascism was intended to increase the effectiveness of the state in the management of economic and social processes, but resulted instead in the erosion of an older distinction between state and civil society, a fragmentation of government into multiple competing agencies, and a decline of the old state bureaucracy as a site of unified, autonomous decision making. Although founded in principle on the concentrated authority of the state, fascism in Germany devolved decision-making authority to co-opted elites, creating a dynamic towards polycracy. By undermining routinized administration, fascism led to infighting, short-termism, organizational chaos, and policy radicalization, encouraging leaders to embark on adventurist policies and periodic campaigns to mobilize their support base. As Broszat argues, National Socialism created a tendency towards expedience which ‘disrupted any rational overall organization of government and reinforced the particularist egocentricity of the respective departmental values and ideologies’ (1981: 358). In this environment, law effectively lost its universal regulatory function, degenerating into a system of contradictory decrees articulating the interests of power-elites who attempted to manipulate the apparatus to defeat rivals or to win favour with the leader. To this extent, at least, the rivalry between fascist oligarchs confirms one of the primary theoretical arguments of competitive elitism, namely that political outcomes are – to a large extent – determined by the balance of power between elites for influence in the state."

No these tasty little examples of thought must have Godwin tingling in all his extremities.

You're not worth the effort of genuine argument. You can't keep up. It's not your fault, you were probably born this way.

Holocaust survivors are absolutely entitled to draw meaningful comparisons to Hitler, and are worth listening to. That being said, a Holocaust survivor making extremely reserved comments about being weary of demagogues doesn't give random crazies on the Internet license to claim that someone is literally a Nazi.

Is literally appointing an actual white nationalist propaganda disseminator to his cabinet not enough to maybe make that association? Seriously, RP?

This conversation has really reached the highest degree of stupidity I am capable of laughing at. After this, it'll just get sad.

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“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”

"Intentionalist historians of Nazi Germany traditionally emphasize the unique role of Hitler in legitimizing and directing Nazi rule from the very beginning of the movement (Jaeckel 1972; Bracher 1979).7 On this view, German fascism is seen as a ‘monocratic’ system of rule (Alleinherrschaft) which is not only dependent on the ideological vision of the leader but on his personal decision making. As structuralist historians argue, however, this interpretation downplays the multi-dimensional nature of decision making in the Third Reich and the deliberate cultivation of the ‘Führer myth’ as a legitimation device, which allowed Nazi rulers to attribute policy successes to the leader while blaming lesser functionaries for the chaotic reality of polycratic rule (Broszat 1981; Mason 1971; Mommsen 1991b). As Kershaw points out, this allowed the Nazi elite to project an image of the Führer as a leader without sin, a person who could transcend sectional interests and rise above everyday political squabbles."

Or this, thanks to Cain BTW:

Quote

"Fascism was intended to increase the effectiveness of the state in the management of economic and social processes, but resulted instead in the erosion of an older distinction between state and civil society, a fragmentation of government into multiple competing agencies, and a decline of the old state bureaucracy as a site of unified, autonomous decision making. Although founded in principle on the concentrated authority of the state, fascism in Germany devolved decision-making authority to co-opted elites, creating a dynamic towards polycracy. By undermining routinized administration, fascism led to infighting, short-termism, organizational chaos, and policy radicalization, encouraging leaders to embark on adventurist policies and periodic campaigns to mobilize their support base. As Broszat argues, National Socialism created a tendency towards expedience which ‘disrupted any rational overall organization of government and reinforced the particularist egocentricity of the respective departmental values and ideologies’ (1981: 358). In this environment, law effectively lost its universal regulatory function, degenerating into a system of contradictory decrees articulating the interests of power-elites who attempted to manipulate the apparatus to defeat rivals or to win favour with the leader. To this extent, at least, the rivalry between fascist oligarchs confirms one of the primary theoretical arguments of competitive elitism, namely that political outcomes are – to a large extent – determined by the balance of power between elites for influence in the state."

Congratulations, you can quote passages. Some of us use our own words. The best of us use both.

This isn't anything resembling an argument. There isn't anything to rebutt, agree with, or otherwise discuss. You haven't made an actual point.

« Last Edit: November 18, 2016, 06:30:22 am by chinagreenelvis »

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"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche

Is literally appointing an actual white nationalist propaganda disseminator to his cabinet not enough to maybe make that association?

Honestly, that's a good question - better than most you guys have been asking - but my answer is, again, "No." A connect-the-dots association with white nationalism - no matter how much I or anyone else may vehemently disagree with it as an ideology - isn't enough on its own to be meaningfully compared to Nazi Germany. Racism and xenophobia alone do not make two situations truly comparable.

If Donald Trump has actual connections to the very real National Socialist Movement or the (now defunct) National Socialist Party of America, then yes - you are free to start calling him a Nazi, Neo-Nazi, sympathizer, whatever. Even the term itself at that point would be technically correct.

But drawing parallels between a guy who hires a guy who is accused of enabling a platform for a lot of assholes (including white nationalists) and Hitler seriously hurts your position if you intend to be taken seriously in a way that makes any real difference.

I mean, I suppose it all depends on who you're trying to convince, but it's certainly no pathway to diplomacy.

There are two kinds of people in the world who disagree with you: those who will never agree, and those who might change their minds. If your plan is to get people to change their minds, racing straight for the Clitler is the most reckless and argumentatively irresponsible path you can take.

« Last Edit: November 18, 2016, 07:06:01 am by chinagreenelvis »

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"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche

Is literally appointing an actual white nationalist propaganda disseminator to his cabinet not enough to maybe make that association?

Not really. There were crazy white supremacists long before Hitler.

Evil is not monolithic. Nor is even the more specific evil of racism monolithic. Being a charismatic racist white guy in a position of power doesn't necessarily make him literally Hitler any more than it makes him literally Jefferson Davis, or even for that matter literally Thomas Jefferson.

EDIT:Given his ties to Russia I'd be inclined to compare him to the guys participating in or even inciting and leading the charges during the pogroms, although he isn't necessarily literally them either

Praise NHGH! For the tribulation of all sentient beings.a plague on both your houses -Mercutiohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrTGgpWmdZQhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVWd7nPjJH8It is an unfortunate fact that every man who seeks to disseminate knowledge must contend not only against ignorance itself, but against false instruction as well. No sooner do we deem ourselves free from a particularly gross superstition, than we are confronted by some enemy to learning who would plunge us back into the darkness -H.P.LovecraftHe who fights with monsters must take care lest he thereby become a monster -Nietzschehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHhrZgojY1QYou are a fluke of the universe, and whether you can hear it of not the universe is laughing behind your back -DeteriorataDon't use the email address in my profile, I lost the password years ago

If I filled a bathtub with piss and vomit and then filled up another bathtub woth moldy diarrhea, even though they would both be disgusting it would nevertheless be incorrect to claim that the two tubs both contained exactly the same thing

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Praise NHGH! For the tribulation of all sentient beings.a plague on both your houses -Mercutiohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrTGgpWmdZQhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVWd7nPjJH8It is an unfortunate fact that every man who seeks to disseminate knowledge must contend not only against ignorance itself, but against false instruction as well. No sooner do we deem ourselves free from a particularly gross superstition, than we are confronted by some enemy to learning who would plunge us back into the darkness -H.P.LovecraftHe who fights with monsters must take care lest he thereby become a monster -Nietzschehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHhrZgojY1QYou are a fluke of the universe, and whether you can hear it of not the universe is laughing behind your back -DeteriorataDon't use the email address in my profile, I lost the password years ago

Let me put it this way: Hitler is like the clitoris. You don't just go stampeding straight towards it and blow your load; you work your way down, slowly, with forethought and tenderness. Going zero-to-Hitler turns everyone else off unless you have literally the best argument anyone has ever come up with, because people are constantly comparing anyone they don't like to goddamned Hitler.

First of all, you don't know shit about my clitoris and should not fucking talk for everyone even if you aren't a Ron Paul sockpuppet and have a vagina.

Nigel’s clitoris was bitten by a cobra and after five days of excruciating pain... the cobra died.

He who laughs last, laughs best. He who laughs at Nigel’s clitoris, it's definitely his last laugh.

The easiest way to determine Nigel’s clitoris's age is to cut it in half and count the rings

If you see Nigel’s clitoris crying it will grant you a wish, if your wish is dying.

When Nigel’s clitoris works out it doesn't get stronger, the machine does.

Nigel’s clitoris does not sleep; it waits.

Logged

Not actually a meat product.Ass-Kicking & Foot-Stomping Ancient Master of SHIT FUCK FUCK FUCKAwful and Bent Behemothic Results of Last Night's Painful Squat.High Altitude Haggis-Filled Sex Bucket From Beyond Time and Space.Internet Monkey Person of Filthy and Immoral Pygmy-Porn Wart ContagionOctomom Auxillary Heat Exchanger Repairmanwalking the fine line line between genius and batshit fucking crazy"computation is a pattern in the spacetime arrangement of particles, and it’s not the particles but the pattern that really matters! Matter doesn’t matter." -- Max Tegmark

" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Holocaust survivors are absolutely entitled to draw meaningful comparisons to Hitler, and are worth listening to. That being said, a Holocaust survivor making extremely reserved comments about being weary of demagogues doesn't give random crazies on the Internet license to claim that someone is literally a Nazi.

Discussing this woman's experiences and the merits of her testimony? No, that's not Godwin's Law, and thank you for providing the link. The stupid shit that Vivat and Roger are trolling? Totally Godwin's Law.

Done with you. We already have an RP and a Brother Nihil.

Logged

" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."- TGRR, raising the bar at work.