In his research note Um notes that Palm is on track for some new Treo products in the August and November quarters (?), and cites the ever increasingly competitive mobile landscape including the 3G iPhone and new BlackBerry Bold. He also states that a Palm turnaround still relies on the success or failure of its new Linux product, which he says won't be launched before the first half of 2009 "at the earliest." (via Tech Trader Daily)

RE: Short clients

This is about the best news I've heard from Palm in a long time. Wait for the "Strong Sell" recommendation by the ANALysts and then load the wagon. This brokerage house probably just got all of it's institutional investors outta this position and is ready to move em' back in when they get it to the bottom.

This stock recommendation business has to be one of the biggest scams on earth, in league with Al Gore and his Polar Bear Killing SUV routine.

Pat Horne

Fiscal versus calendar

Those are corporate "fiscal quarters" - for their own reason (I literally have no idea why - maybe ease of accounting when offset from calendar?) company fiscal quarters are often offset from the regular calendar. In this case Palm has two fiscal quarters ending the end of August and the end of November.

Coming soon: The touchscreen BlackBerry

Out of Research in Motion's (RIMM) clouds comes Thunder, to be followed by - what else - Storm.

All the sound and fury signifies something in the works by the BlackBerry maker. Thunder is the codename for a touchscreen phone coming to Verizon (VZ) and Vodafone (VOD) this year. Mobile phone blog BoyGeniusReport was first with the scoop and at least one analyst says it checks out with his telco sources.

Soon after, possibly early next year, a follow-up touchscreen device - codenamed Storm will arrive at AT&T (T), according to other sources familiar with RIM's product roadmap.

Thunder, the first touchscreen phone to be developed by RIM, is scheduled to start selling in November, says Canaccord Adams analyst Peter Misek. That is later than the third quarter timeframe BoyGenius reported, but still in time for the all important holiday buying season.

With Apple's (AAPL) 3G iPhone coming next month exclusively to AT&T and selling at a $200 discount, Verizon is apparently eager to secure its own touchscreen smartphone, and has promised RIM it will sell millions of Thunders to guarantee exclusivity, sources told BoyGeniusReport. Analysts agreed with the logic of such a deal but the details could not be confirmed.

Verizon declined to comment and a RIM representative was not immediately available for comment.

Verizon has been a little light in the smartphone category over the past year. The LG Voyager was not exactly the iPhone killer Verizon had hoped, and the No. 2 wireless shop is just now getting the BlackBerry Curve, a phone that has been popular with AT&T for nearly a year.

Sales volume commitments are nothing new in the industry, says Michael Cote, an independent analyst based in Chicago. Generally speaking, says Cote, "Verizon would like to have a device that launches with them first. And it's in RIM's best interest to establish parity between the carriers. There's not much downside to granting Verizon an exclusive."

Presumably, the phone will be dual mode 3G allowing it to work on Verizon's EV-DO network and on Vodafone's UMTS system, say observers. The combined selling power of Verizon and Vodafone offer RIM a big sales opportunity, according to analysts.

"Both Verizon and Vodafone are likely to devote massive marketing dollars to the campaign, which could lead to another blockbuster product for RIM," Canaccord's Misek wrote in a research note.

The Thunder reports come just three days after RIM introduced it's next BlackBerry, called Bold, which was to have arrived in AT&T's stores next month, but has been delayed until at least August. The unveiling came during a conference for wireless industry developers and analysts sponsored by RIM in Florida this week.

RE: Coming soon: The touchscreen BlackBerry

When/if Palm ever get around to launching something interesting and new, will anybody with any enthusiasm for Palm OS be left?

Palm's biggest hurdle is convincing the world that their products are not stuck in the middle of the previous decade. They're not, but that's the perception with the lack of innovation and trickle of lacklustre product tweaks.

I'm amazed that 'Elevation' haven't forced Palm into launching a TX2 in late 2007/early 2008 just to see them through till their Linux platform is ready.

Game Over for Palm: 3G iPhone is KILLAH

>>>More interesting is a tidbit that Le Matin included in the report (deciphered by AppleInsider): that the new iPhone coming to Switzerland would include two-way video chatting, mobile TV and GPS navigation. Presumably, such features would exist on all 3G iPhone set to roll-out worldwide.

RE: Game Over for Palm: 3G iPhone is KILLAH

Successful people become successful using Palms...then they can afford it and play with iPhones or give iPhones away to their small employees, customers, the masses so to speak or people who they will keep the secret of their success away from. Hahaha. Cant have too many billionaires or geniuses out there or you will not sell enough iPhones!

RE: launching a TX2

Palm should've refreshed the E2 & Z22 in mid-2006 and the TX sometime that fall or early '07.

A TX2 *WOULD* have helped...had it come out with 12-18 months of the original TX. But now it's too late and even loading this thing up with the absolute best tech that Garnet can support (128mb RAM, 4gb internal flash drive, BT 1.2 etc) wouldn't be enough to sell it with the kind of margins Palm likes to have. Palm's let the developer community wither away to nearly nothing and all of their traditional PDA retail partners have dumped Palm or are about one quarter away from doing so. Even if they wanted to, Palm simply cannot execute. If the iPhone & the flurry of RIM news over the past 2 weeks hasn't made Palm look like a dead company walking, I don't know what will. And how will Palm respond to the surprising success of the Centro....more colors and a bunch of snazzy cases! IMO, they will do NOTHING before Q2 '09 to capitalize on the Centro's success, aside from possibly releasing the Wanda here in quad-band form as a "Centro W" or some such.

Of course, Palm has traditionally released decent handhelds that were simply a year (or more) later than the should've been.

The m500 line should've come out in 2000, not 2001. The Tungsten W would've been a superb device had it been released earlier and not overshadowed by the T|T. The TX basically is what the T5 should've been in 2004. And the Fooleo might've stood a chance had it been released in 2006 instead its planned September 2007 launch date.

But the Treo 700p was probably Palm's worst-ever moment. It hit the market at least 6 months later than it should have AND was horribly buggy when it did arrive. Palm let 18+ months pass between launch of the Treo 650 and the next Palm OS Treo (700p). That's just unacceptable.

RE: launching a TX2

Funny but there are many that frequent this site and others that would disagree with you. I agree that at this point Palm couldn't even pull it off if they wanted to. All you have to do is look at the iPod Touch. Yes I know you'll say that it's a MP3 player with PIM capabilities and you are right. Palm was in the position to do the same thing and yet let the ball slip.

In your world the classic PDA may be dead but in my world I know many people besides myself who continue to use PDA's, be it Palm, PocketPC, or even still some Apple Newton hold overs. The fact is no one has come out with anything that has moved the classic PDA user forward and until that happens we will complain and moan about it.

RE: launching a TX2

For it to be really successful, a new PDA would have to be a lot better than the TX.

At a minimum, they should have used a standard mini-USB connector instead of Palm's stupid proprietary one, and updated the form factor to something more modern. And incorporated the Treo's replaceable battery.

And do much better quality control.

"All opinions posted are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled."

RE: launching a TX2

I don't have a TX, but I do own a T3. I love this little device.Once I broke the touch screen in 2007 and I was lost without it and bought a brand new one for $275. Why? First of all I have all my private information on this since 2000. I must have went through six wireless phones. I can do many things with this that I cannot do with a fancy cell phone. And there is free software out there for basic living. I can copy and paste many emails and many forms of electronic documents. Top it off I back these up on my local PC. The T3 is amazing.

I don't use it for business per say, but I will send stuff from work to my home email address and copy/paste stuff there. All my passwords are all copy and pasted into BeSafe or some at low risk into Memo.

I was hoping for a new handheld device from Palm, but reading this discussion makes me think it will never happen.

But I'll tell you that no matter what Marketing throws out there, the Palm handheldis a very useful and powerful device. Problem is that it does take you about 6 months or more to appreciate what it does, and does not. The "does" outweighs the "don'ts" by 5-1.

Past models I had: Vx, 705i (my first ever email sent wireless!!, T2 and T3(2). Then I bought the Palm Pilot 1000 (?) for kicks that still has a6 month old battiesand works fine.

RE: launching a TX2

TMonti brings up a good point. And we're all guilty of basically overlooking the handy, PIM/organizational aspect of these devices.

In my stable of old Palm OS devices, I have a Pilot 1000, a 5000, a Palm Pilot Pro w/ III upgrade card, and a VII.

I was recently playing around with my old Pilot & Palm Pilot and realized that they are still imminently useful devices, a dozen years after their release. My biggest grips with the original Pilots were the skimpy memory, lack of a true NES-style d-pad, and missing backlight. Palm at least addressed 2 of those 3 flaws on the Palm Pilot.

Other than an original parallel Zip drive circa 1995 and an old HP Laserjet II that's nigh indestructable, I cannot think of any single piece of computer-related tech I own that's still relevant, usful and semi-supported a dozen years or more on.

Palm has made SO MANY mistakes, especially over the past 5-6 years, that it's to forget the fact that the PIM functions of a Pilot 1000 from 1996 absolutely blows away anything on any device from Apple, MS, RIM et al. But Rob Haitani, Jeff Hawkins, the block of wood in the shirt pocket and the mythical "tap counter" all combined to hit the ball so far out of the park back in the mid-90's that over a decade of negligence and countless competitors still haven't been able to beat Palm at the one thing that made them a household name--simple, effortless organization and data input.

RE: launching a TX2

>At a minimum, they should have used a standard mini-USB connector instead of Palm's stupid proprietary one,

Remember the last time they switched connectors? A lot of people were pissed that they couldn't use their accessories.You can bag on the multiconnector till your arms fall off, but it's really a powerful piece of equipment for hardware hackers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palm_Multi-ConnectorBest Regards,Ryan RixTamsPalm - The PalmOS Blog

STOP WHINING! If you hate PalmOS so much, get a winmob device and go whine about it on a winmob site!

RE: launching a TX2

I'm afraid that it is too late (once again). Whilst I now want a phone with my PDA - I use a 650 - I can see that the iPod Touch has sold well and that Apple seem to be making a profit out of it. These are 'the computer guys' who don't know anything about phones as someone once said. As Mike suggests above, it looks as though they're going to do it again with their new slate (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/08/05/14/intel_exec_vouches_for_atom_based_apple_newton_tablet_report.html)It seems as though Steve Jobs knows the market and how to turn a profit giving people what they want at the right time.The nearest Palm came to this in recent years was the Foleo. I work in education in the UK and there is a massive market for the EasyPC type device, and now there's a flurry of similar devices coming to fill the demand. The Foleo could have come in nicely and given people what they wanted - if it was at the right price, say no more than £99, which is getting on for $200 I suppose. It could even have stimulated Treo and Centro phone sales with its connectivity etc. Use the Foleo on campus and on WiFi and then with your phone at home or out and about. Instant on. Email, web and Office as Docs to Go nearly perfect. The only thing missing was the Calendar and Address book. It looked as though it was nearly there. Then they can it in favour of harmonising it with a phone platform that will not be ready until 2009 (at the earliest) because they couldn't support both OSes. Well given the gap they could have let the Foleo be overtaken by the second one if it is going to be so good. If the Foleo kept them going and made a profit they could then handle the problem of the overhead at their leisure whilst making money rather than economically not making a penny in the meantime.

RE: launching a TX2

I'm in the Enterprise\Service Provider IT world and I don't see any pda's. I do see mostly smartphones and BB's.You got to be kiddin about Apple Newton users.

I work IT in the retail business and what I see are the executives with Blackberry's, I have yet to see anyone with a smartphone, and I see PDA's being used various ways. Managers use the PDA's for Tasks, Notes, and Passwords. Vendors use PDA's for inventory control. Our Pricing Departments use PDA's for Price Verification. Backdoor receiving uses PDA's for inventory control. Most of these people we don't want to have an integrated phone with these devices.

When CompUSA closed it's doors where I live I noticed they were using Handspring Visor Deluxe's to keep track of their remaining inventory. When I took my daughter to Disney on Ice our tickets were scanned by a Symbol (Palm Unit). At least up until last year a High School in my area provided each student with a Palm TX to keep track of their homework, schedule and documents. I know of people who work in restaurants that use PDA's for inventory as well as keeping track of temperatures and documenting accidents.

As for the Newton, goto www.newtontalk.net and click list archives and read through the discussions. People still are wishing for a Newton 2 to come out.

RE: launching a TX2

I agree that you will still see pda's in the retail business, but its not as common in mostly other business area's. In general the demand in the consumer and business markets are going down for these devices.

RE: launching a TX2

I've been to at least 3 concerts in the past year (give or take) and at EVERY venue (from a large outdoor amphitheatre to an indoor coliseum/arena to a small local dive) they were using classic monochrome POS Symbol barcode scanners to zap the tickets.

FWIW, the Alphasmart Dana seems to be alive and semi-kicking in the educational field, though they've since come out with a newer model (Neo) running some kind of proprietary, closed OS.

What I'd really like to know is what kind of users/consumers buy those

I can imagine the margins there are brutal, but I'm honestly surprised Palm didn't keep plugging away at an ultra affordable Zire-style device at the $50 neighborhood. Heck, I imagine there still would be plenty of takers for a Z22 at $75ish (that device was hampered more by poor visibility/marketing and spotty retail distribution than anything else).

RE: launching a TX2

I was thinking the same thing regarding those sharp wizard devices. You can buy them everywhere but I've never actually seen anyone use one. Prior to PDAs I used the Franklin Organizer myself.

I would think a $99 Palm M500 series looking device running a more modern OS would be a good Organizer Class device for Palm. At least they would broaden their market and have a device that could get people use to their new OS (when/if it ever comes out). It would also help increase the number of developers for the new OS. I'm not sure how much Palm can count on their name recognition alone anymore. Kind of comparable to the Mac Mini or the iPod Shuffle in terms of a starter device.

RE: launching a TX2

I agree that a TX2 would be a bad move. People just aren't interested in PDAs anymore. People want media devices and phones (and media devices that are phones). PDA functions are passe, from a market standpoint.

Think about it: Is the iPhone or iPod Touch touted for its ability to keep you organized? For keeping notes? For making sure you're going to get to meetings on time? Of course not. It's a media player, and a phone. The mass market doesn't care about any other benefits. The rudimentary calendars and note applications in most feature phones are enough for most users (if they use them at all). The thing that I think has changed the most, since the Palm first came out, is the ubiquity both of desktop computers and desktop organizers, as well as text messaging alerts. If I can set up Google Calendar (or anything else) to send an alert to my phone, that function makes up for not having a dedicated PDA's calendar. Contacts and notes work the same way.

Don't misunderstand: I'm not saying I don't like PDAs. I own a TX and a Centro. But the plain fact is, the PDA's time has come and gone. Handheld devices you see now (iPod, iPhone, PSP) are not PDAs. They're for browsing, media, and games, primarily. (The iPhone is a phone, of course, but not a particularly good one.)

The only thing I can think of that Palm could add to a handheld to distinguish itself would probably be a GPS. (And by that, I mean a real GPS system, not a simple system like the Google Maps on iPhone/iPod Touch, but something with turn-by-turn directions, 3D view, spoken directions, etc.)

RE: launching a TX2

RE: launching a TX2

People just aren't interested in PDAs anymore. People want media devices and phones (and media devices that are phones).

How about showing us a study that says that? If there is nothing new to buy, how do you expect high sales numbers? Let them try putting out a new non-winmob PDA and see how well it sells. A limited production run could keep costs and unsold inventory down.

RE: launching a TX2

I'd really like to see some sales figures for those two HP iPaq PDAs released last year that targeted the enterprise market. Also, I wonder where the TX stands in relation to the all-time best sellers in Palm's 12-year PDA history?

Another good gauge of interest (IMO) is Brighthand's "Most Popular Mobile Device" chart. Nearly 3 years on, the Palm TX is *STILL* firmly entrenched at the #6 spot on BH's chart, well above the beloved Centro. In fact, the iPaq 110, 210, and the GPS "Travel Companion" are also on the list as well.

RE: launching a TX2

How about showing us a study that says that? If there is nothing new to buy, how do you expect high sales numbers? Let them try putting out a new non-winmob PDA and see how well it sells. A limited production run could keep costs and unsold inventory down.

First, you don't need a study to tell you where the market is going. Do you think that the manufacturers of PDAs (not just Palms) all abandoned PDAs on their own initiative, even though the market for them was strong? But I can certainly reference articles which cite this decline in 2005 (around the time of the LifeDrive and TX):

I guess you get the idea. The market has been declining for PDAs across the board since before the TX and LifeDrive were ever released. Therefore, you can't blame a lack of new devices on the decline of interest. It's the other way around: A lack of consumer interest led (as one should expect) to a lack of new standalone PDAs.

don't shoot the messenger

Whatever UBS's history is, the analysis sounds right. The market is getting more and more competitive, and Palm is falling further and further behind. By the end of the summer RIM will be out with the Bold and maybe a touch screen phone, and Apple will have launched the second generation iphone. Isn't the 7.0 version of WinMob out soon? Add to that ALP, Android, etc. and the competition for market share will be intense.

The imagine what Nova will look like, in the best case. It will need debugging, which means six + months of patches, random errors, and instability. And the third party developer ecosystem will be starting from ground zero, right? How many developers are going to jump into a market just starting out when there are huge installed bases of the other OSes to develop for? That's a tough sell.

The 800w will, at best, be at a partity feature-wise with most of the new devices coming out. But by the time Palm gets around releasing a ROM update for the 800w sometime in 2009, their competitors will already be close to launching followup products & Palm will be wanting to keep milking it for another year+ (ala Treo 750).

Palm's glacial product release schedule was annoying in 1997/1998. It made Palm OS get fidgety in 1998/1999. It caused Palm to lose tremendous momentum to Compaq/Sony etc in 2000/2001/2002. Now it's going to lead to the final demise of the company. In my 12+ years of Palm Inc./Palm OS usage, I've never seen Palm facing such dire straits as they are now. RIM's service outages are going to become a distant memory with the hot new hardware they're cranking out.

I think it's time again for us to ponder that eternal question: Was Cobalt *SO* bad that it was worth making Garnet stick around for 7/8 years instead of the interim 1/2 year lifecycle it was supposed to have?

RE: UBS?

Just to add to that intimidating schedule, think about the economies of scale that Palm is facing. By the time they put out there smartphone, Apple will be ordering iPhones by the millions (one rumor had the initial order for the iPhone 2.0 at 3 million for the first month! With those kinds of numbers the price of each unit plunges. That's not even to mention the price advantages Apple must have on flash memory since they use it in the iPod as well. Palm's first smartphone won't likely to be ordered in anywhere near those quantities, so how can they price it significantly below the iPhone and still make money?

Nova phone: fewer third party applications, buggy, predictable design, not significantly cheaper... What can they possibly offer to make up for those weaknesses?

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