DONT YOU QUESTION ME!!!!! Seriously though, to an extent I feel he has. I mean Lorenzo wasn't too happy about his comments, and according to reports he isn't the only one pissed about it. Look at the penalties we're racking up? The outburst by players? I don't know. Just doesn't seem like a smart coached team at the moment IMO.

If you were paying attention you could. The Niners were a 'sleeping giant' for years out west. Remember, most pundits picked them to win the West the year Singletary crapped the bed with them. They had talent but needed it to come together. Can you say we've had comparable talent? Really? No other team has completely remade their roster and had fast success.

So based on you rattling off Harbaugh, Coughlin, Belichick, Smith all of the 'good coaches' are you implying that any of them would be winning with our current roster (and injuries) AND that talent is secondary to coaching ability?

Many considered the skins a sleeping a giant. We were always in games but because of questionable coaching and the lack of a QB we couldn't win. We have the QB and now we are still losing. Yes I believe a better coach would build a team that would show a lot more progress than we have had the past three years. Coughlin took the Jaguars to the playoffs multiple times, the giants were not "talented" until he took over, same thing with Belichick with the Patriots and Smith with the Falcons. Part of being a great coach is getting the best out of the talent you have.

Many considered the skins a sleeping a giant. We were always in games but because of questionable coaching and the lack of a QB we couldn't win. We have the QB and now we are still losing. Yes I believe a better coach would build a team that would show a lot more progress than we have had the past three years. Coughlin took the Jaguars to the playoffs multiple times, the giants were not "talented" until he took over, same thing with Belichick with the Patriots and Smith with the Falcons. Part of being a great coach is getting the best out of the talent you have.

Who considered us a sleeping giant in 2010? C'mon dude, we were a well earned laughingstock.

Agreed, we are still losing. Understand we are missing our #1 WR, our #1 TE, our starting RT, best pass rusher, starting DE and both projected starting safeties. Do you think any of those would make a difference in our record or it is all on Shanahan the coach?

Do you distinguish between the coach and the GM? I give the GM a 5 for roster composition but the coach an 8 for us being competitive in each game. Even the Steeler game if we execute we are in the game. The last 3 games have been crippled by turnovers (NYG), dropped passes (PIT), penalties (CAR) and blown assignments/missed tackles (ALL). We've had 3 TD taken off the board by penalties in those games. Think those are on the coaches ability to get the best out of the talent you have? Those end up on the coach because he has to get them to execute but do you think the players are not put in position to make winning plays?

__________________ Paintrain's Redskins Fandom
1981-2014

I'm not dead but this team is dead to me...but now that McCloughan is here they may have new life!

Yes, Shanahan made a bad trade for McNabb. Any other 2010 thread topics you'd like to revisit? Are you suggesting fire him now for a 2010 move?

Well, as long as people are willing to go back 7 and 8 years to blame his "teambuilding" on Gibbs 2.0, Vinny Cerratto, Albert hayneworth and the state of the 2008-2009 squad, I'd say its fair to revisit a topic that about 2-3 years old. If anything had a bigger impact as far as stunting the growth and progress of our team, it was trading away a second rounder for an over the hill vet in order to "win now". That and changing a defense that in NO way needed changing, even with the "horrible" roster that was the 2008-2009 squad.

Shanahan has let the game pass him by. There are better coaches out there than him. Hire one of em, RG3 would only have one year gone, the rest of his career ahead of him. His three years of team building have netted the following....

1. Younger Squad (a plus)
2. Worst defense in the league
3. A Defense with zero depth on pace to allow the most yards EVER in the history of the NFL
4. An injury prone 46 million dollar receiver who is out the rest of the season, and has only really earned his paycheck in one out of his 4 games
5. The most penalized team in the league
6. A very sketchy special teams, revolving door at kicker
7. His son at Offensive coordinator, so firing due to underperformance or lack of progress is out the window
8. Throwing players under the bus and admitting defeat
9. A much happier sunshiney attitude at Redskins park, on every day of the week other than Sundays.
10. A 33.8% Win percentage
11. Abysmal home w/l record
12. Absolutely atrocious time management during games. Just awful.
13. Highly questionable offseason acquisitions that do not compute or support the "team building" concept (too many to list)
14. A rookie quarterback and runningback who are carrying the load of the rest of the deficient squad, enabling a mirage of competitiveness. (which also cost the next two first round draft picks, so combine that with the 18 million penalty next year, where are the pieces supposed to come from? Doesn't sound like he planned well for the pieces. Sounds like now its more of a 5-6 year plan from NOW in order to realistically think he will build a contender.
15. No sniff of the playoff in three years, check that, no sniff of a 8 win season in three years.

Agreed, we are still losing. Understand are missing our #1 WR, our #1 TE, our starting RT, best pass rusher, starting DE and both projected starting safeties. Do you think any of those would make a difference in our record or it is all on Shanahan the coach?

RT and both safeties still would have been big question marks. Garcon hurts for sure. Rak and Carriker too.

Well, as long as people are willing to go back 7 and 8 years to blame his "teambuilding" on Gibbs 2.0, Vinny Cerratto, Albert hayneworth and the state of the 2008-2009 squad, I'd say its fair to revisit a topic that about 2-3 years old. If anything had a bigger impact as far as stunting the growth and progress of our team, it was trading away a second rounder for an over the hill vet in order to "win now". That and changing a defense that in NO way needed changing, even with the "horrible" roster that was the 2008-2009 squad.

Shanahan has let the game pass him by. There are better coaches out there than him. Hire one of em, RG3 would only have one year gone, the rest of his career ahead of him. His three years of team building have netted the following....

1. Younger Squad (a plus)
2. Worst defense in the league
3. A Defense with zero depth on pace to allow the most yards EVER in the history of the NFL
4. An injury prone 46 million dollar receiver who is out the rest of the season, and has only really earned his paycheck in one out of his 4 games
5. The most penalized team in the league
6. A very sketchy special teams, revolving door at kicker
7. His son at Offensive coordinator, so firing due to underperformance or lack of progress is out the window
8. Throwing players under the bus and admitting defeat
9. A much happier sunshiney attitude at Redskins park, on every day of the week other than Sundays.
10. A 33.8% Win percentage
11. Abysmal home w/l record
12. Absolutely atrocious time management during games. Just awful.
13. Highly questionable offseason acquisitions that do not compute or support the "team building" concept (too many to list)
14. A rookie quarterback and runningback who are carrying the load of the rest of the deficient squad, enabling a mirage of competitiveness. (which also cost the next two first round draft picks, so combine that with the 18 million penalty next year, where are the pieces supposed to come from? Doesn't sound like he planned well for the pieces. Sounds like now its more of a 5-6 year plan from NOW in order to realistically think he will build a contender.
15. No sniff of the playoff in three years, check that, no sniff of a 8 win season in three years.

No way he deserves another year.

Nice Mechanix.
Dont think Garcon was injury prone was he? Either way the rest of your observations totally outweigh that anyway.
Your point about RG-3 having only one year gone is my big concern. Everybody keeps saying lets not start over. however our D is a problem (and all of us agree on that) so we are going to have to start that over anyway when Haz is gone. That leaves the offense which obviously runs through RG-3. Shanny has been here three years, but Griff only one. So is it that big of a deal that he would have to "re-learn" a different offense in year two? He is a very smart kid - dont see that as a problem at all.

Nice Mechanix.
Dont think Garcon was injury prone was he? Either way the rest of your observations totally outweigh that anyway.
Your point about RG-3 having only one year gone is my big concern. Everybody keeps saying lets not start over. however our D is a problem (and all of us agree on that) so we are going to have to start that over anyway when Haz is gone. That leaves the offense which obviously runs through RG-3. Shanny has been here three years, but Griff only one. So is it that big of a deal that he would have to "re-learn" a different offense in year two? He is a very smart kid - dont see that as a problem at all.

he is now. that is all that counts to me. I don't care about him with indy, just like I didn't care about shanahans pre skins record or sucesses/failures. But now, after the team moving backwards other than RG3 and ALMo, his past is definitely becoming a pretty damning argument, as is his present.