Good stuff, but he has done better. Traitor was worlds better, though this hasn't been bad._________________Perfection is a lifelong pursuit requiring sacrifice. The only way to get it quicker is to sacrifice the most.

Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:01 am

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Darth SkuldrenModerator

Joined: 04 Feb 2008Posts: 6844Location: Missouri

I need to reread Traitor. To be honest, I have no idea which book that was in the NJO series. They've all blurred together so much that it's impact has worn off. Perhaps it's time to refresh myself..._________________
"I believe toys resonate with us as humans, we can hold them them, it's tactile, real! They are totems for our extended beliefs and imaginations. A fetish for ideas that hold as much interest and passion as old religious relics for some. We display them in our homes. They show who we are. They are signals for similar thinking people. A way we connect with each other...and I guess thats why I do toys. That connection." -Ashley Wood

Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:11 pm

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Mara Jade SkywalkerAdministrator

Joined: 15 Feb 2008Posts: 6205Location: Beyond Shadows

Well Mindor finally came in! I'm still trying to finish up The Lost World (I had trouble getting through the beginning and middle), but I'm almost done. Soon as I finish, I'm diving into Mindor! _________________"It's not about the legacy you leave, it's about the life you live." ~Mara Jade Skywalker

Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:08 am

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Darth JudicarKnight

Joined: 02 Feb 2008Posts: 433Location: Lehon (the Unknown World)

Well I finished it yesterday . . . it did get better as it went on for me, but I still didn't think it was as good as Stover's other books. I ddi enjoy

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all the humor he added in though, especially when it was in the character's narration (like when Han's thinking about Mandalorians). I also liked how Nick was in it . . . after Jedi Twilight, he was a favorite of mine, and I was pleased to see him again. I would like to read more about how he got to be there though.

_________________
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
-The Code of the Sith

In mourning . . .

Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:37 am

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Darth SkuldrenModerator

Joined: 04 Feb 2008Posts: 6844Location: Missouri

Hey, Iron Fist, your theory has been backed by Stover...

(Straight from his EUC interview)
EUC: What was your inspiration to include all the stuff about holothrillers and movies into The Shadows of Mindor?

MWS: I think it might have been someone at the San Diego ComiCon in 2003 or so . . . or while on RotS tour in 2005 . . . Anyway, somebody mentioned to me that Tartakovsky’s Clone Wars mini-toons could be retconned as pro-Republic propaganda being disseminated throughout the GFFA over the HoloNet. I thought this was a brilliant idea (as well as being pretty damned funny), and it’s always stuck in the back of my mind - what if some or all of the EU stories were, well, fictionalized exploits of real people? The American West of the 19th Century provided the subject of hundreds of dime novels, many of which were written about real people - Bat Masterson, the James Gang, Wild Bill Hickok, and Buffalo Bill Cody among others, if memory serves; how many more such legendary characters took part in the Galactic Civil War?

I was also inspired by a line of Bob Salvatore’s, when he introduced me on a New Jedi Order panel. He described me as having “introduced the concept of the Unreliable Narrator into Star Wars fiction.” Now, he was talking about Traitor, which is not really an unreliable narrator so much as a narrative strategy that confines the reader’ point of view to those of Jacen, Ganner, and Nom Anor, highlighting their individual responses to having to act in the face of irreducible ambiguity. But ever since then, I’ve had this nagging feeling that there really should be unreliable narrators in Star Wars. Because there’s no such thing as a truly reliable narrator; the very act of creating a story subjects the elements of that story to prior restraint - even choosing what incidents and elements to include is an editing of reality, if you see what I mean. They will always be selected to illustrate and support the author’s rhetorical intent, whatever that may be.

I hung a sign on my office wall that reads:

ALL NARRATORS ARE UNRELIABLE. THE HONEST ONES ADMIT IT._________________
"I believe toys resonate with us as humans, we can hold them them, it's tactile, real! They are totems for our extended beliefs and imaginations. A fetish for ideas that hold as much interest and passion as old religious relics for some. We display them in our homes. They show who we are. They are signals for similar thinking people. A way we connect with each other...and I guess thats why I do toys. That connection." -Ashley Wood

Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:07 pm

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ReepicheepMaster

Joined: 05 Feb 2008Posts: 7613Location: Sailing into the unknown

I've read it!

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Okay, it started off with a lot of promise. Chapter two (I think it was two, the one with the Rogues) was hilarious and it was very intriguing. As it went on, with the whole aspect of the Dark, suddenly I wasn't as impressed. First of all, with the Dark and the Light, it just turns into another good vs. evil conflict. Isn't Jedi/Sith enough? I think Stover may have gone a little far with it. My biggest question right now is: was the 'Dark' a figment of Shadowspawn's/Blackhole's/Cronal's imagination or is it real and currently in a deathlock with the 'Light'.

I know you're all going to kill me, but I enjoyed the LotF books much more than this.

And Skuldren, love your sig. _________________
Where sky and water meet,
Where the waves grow sweet,
Doubt not, Reepicheep,
To find all you seek,
There is the utter east.

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:21 pm

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Darth SkuldrenModerator

Joined: 04 Feb 2008Posts: 6844Location: Missouri

If you recall, the Dark is a recurring theme with Stover's work. He used it in his Revenge of the Sith novelization. And I think it does have it's place because there are many groups out there with their own Force traditions. I mean Jacen spent 5 years studying other views. Maybe the Dark was one of them..._________________
"I believe toys resonate with us as humans, we can hold them them, it's tactile, real! They are totems for our extended beliefs and imaginations. A fetish for ideas that hold as much interest and passion as old religious relics for some. We display them in our homes. They show who we are. They are signals for similar thinking people. A way we connect with each other...and I guess thats why I do toys. That connection." -Ashley Wood

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 3:09 pm

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ReepicheepMaster

Joined: 05 Feb 2008Posts: 7613Location: Sailing into the unknown

I really didn't like the way this book downplayed the Force. I'm just going to erase this from my mind, because in my Star Wars the Force can beat the Dark to a bloody pulp._________________
Where sky and water meet,
Where the waves grow sweet,
Doubt not, Reepicheep,
To find all you seek,
There is the utter east.

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 3:45 pm

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MasterAndrew15Administrator

Joined: 22 Oct 2007Posts: 941Location: United States

From my point of view, (pun intended), the Dark is another view of the force. It's the force explainable to those who want to learn it that way._________________ EUCantina.net Founder. Forum Admin.

Didn't Luke pwn the Dark with his light side of the Force? (ie. the Light)

Really I think the Dark is simply the dark side, but like Stove said, it's the extreme, the compliment to the Jedi Order. Hard core darksider monks. _________________
"I believe toys resonate with us as humans, we can hold them them, it's tactile, real! They are totems for our extended beliefs and imaginations. A fetish for ideas that hold as much interest and passion as old religious relics for some. We display them in our homes. They show who we are. They are signals for similar thinking people. A way we connect with each other...and I guess thats why I do toys. That connection." -Ashley Wood

Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:38 pm

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MasterAndrew15Administrator

Joined: 22 Oct 2007Posts: 941Location: United States

Quote:

Didn't Luke pwn the Dark with his light side of the Force? (ie. the Light)

Luke did conquer the ideal of the Dark; there's no way he held on to it after.

Quote:

Really I think the Dark is simply the dark side, but like Stove said, it's the extreme, the compliment to the Jedi Order. Hard core darksider monks

I'd say it's an extreme theory of the force, making it explainable to hard-corse darksiders._________________ EUCantina.net Founder. Forum Admin.

Down played the Force? I'd say purging thousands of bodies of a dark substance is quite a fate, but I would say there's been even grander displays of the Force _________________"Changes are nice--but so is continuity!"

"Then you saved my life. How disgusting. How unfortunate."
"No, don't gush on so. It was nothing, really."

Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 5:26 pm

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ReepicheepMaster

Joined: 05 Feb 2008Posts: 7613Location: Sailing into the unknown

I meant the way the 'Dark' seemed more powerful than the Force. That greatly irritated me._________________
Where sky and water meet,
Where the waves grow sweet,
Doubt not, Reepicheep,
To find all you seek,
There is the utter east.

Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:34 pm

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Old Master BenAdministrator

Joined: 10 Nov 2007Posts: 2259Location: Georgia

To me, neither thing was more "powerful", both were just a different way of looking at things. If anything, the Force would be more powerful, it wins in the end.

Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:59 am

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MasterAndrew15Administrator

Joined: 22 Oct 2007Posts: 941Location: United States

I concur-- the Force, the Dark, the Potentium View and other things Jacen may have learned too-- They are all views of an overlying, constant thing in SW. That thing is described as the Force by George Lucas, with two sides for good and evil, but just like in this world people have different views on constant things._________________ EUCantina.net Founder. Forum Admin.