conduct--see post below

One reference alluded to the anonymous postings (as is
mine). Perhaps if M$ spent some time and a few of the
billions to figure out how to keep the swen spammers out
of the system, we all could be a little more forthcoming
with who we really are. I also see the value of my cert
going "south" with the dumpers. And, frankly, this
particular NG provides me with my daily bit of
jocularity. Keep dumping on the trolls and dumpers. They
deserve all they get!

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this is the reason I hang around. I would stay here for no other reason.
I hope that MS recognises the value of skilled people (many MCNGPers are,
though I will not be so vain as to say that I am highly skilled I just do
what I can) and provide those who don't know better a valuable service...

They do Neil, but things have been getting out of control in this group
lately, especially the language content.
That is the main reason I haven't posted here recently. While I support the
aims of the MCNGP and enjoy honorary membership, as a MVP I will not
knowingly violate the rules of conduct (though I have done so either
unknowingly or in anger in the past)

--
Larry Samuels MS-MVP (Windows-Shell/User)
Associate Expert
Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
Unofficial FAQ for Windows Server 2003 athttp://pelos.us/SERVER.htm
"Neil" <> wrote in message
news:Xns94F6CCA37F415neilmcsehotmailcom@207.46.248.16...
> "No One" <> wrote in
> news:13d1401c4442e$aa6c5fb0$:
>
>> And, frankly, this
>> particular NG provides me with my daily bit of
>> jocularity.
>
> this is the reason I hang around. I would stay here for no other reason.
> I hope that MS recognises the value of skilled people (many MCNGPers are,
> though I will not be so vain as to say that I am highly skilled I just do
> what I can) and provide those who don't know better a valuable service...
>
> IMHO
>
> --
> Neil MCNGP #30
> "you'd do what, to who, for how many biscuits?"

well, Larry brings up a valid point. There is no need
for vulgarity or profanity anywhere. My reference was
not intended to target those people who choose to use
foul language; rather to point out that this particular
ng seems to get some of the dumbest questions in the
known universe to wit: how do I buy MCSE? what are
questions on exam 70-XXX? where do I start? It all boils
down to the fact that these people are trying to come in
to the MCSE world and want everyone else to do all their
legwork for them. Pity the poor sap that does this and
then has to solve a really HUGE issue on a network just
to get it back up and on line. They will have to come
here and have one of us do it for them because they don't
even know how to 'google' or go to technet. The biggest
thing I've learned over the years is that you can't
remember EVERYTHING. But you have to know how to go
about finding out how to do something that you have
forgotten. After all, the network still has to work. And
if you're the one charged with that responsibility, you'd
better know how to fix it or where to go to find out.
>-----Original Message-----
>They do Neil, but things have been getting out of
control in this group
>lately, especially the language content.
>That is the main reason I haven't posted here recently.
While I support the
>aims of the MCNGP and enjoy honorary membership, as a
MVP I will not
>knowingly violate the rules of conduct (though I have
done so either
>unknowingly or in anger in the past)
>
>--
>Larry Samuels MS-MVP (Windows-Shell/User)
>Associate Expert
>Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
>Unofficial FAQ for Windows Server 2003 at
>http://pelos.us/SERVER.htm
>"Neil" <> wrote in message
>news:Xns94F6CCA37F415neilmcsehotmailcom@207.46.248.16...
>> "No One" <> wrote in
>> news:13d1401c4442e$aa6c5fb0$:
>>
>>> And, frankly, this
>>> particular NG provides me with my daily bit of
>>> jocularity.
>>
>> this is the reason I hang around. I would stay here
for no other reason.
>> I hope that MS recognises the value of skilled people
(many MCNGPers are,
>> though I will not be so vain as to say that I am
highly skilled I just do
>> what I can) and provide those who don't know better a
valuable service...
>>
>> IMHO
>>
>> --
>> Neil MCNGP #30
>> "you'd do what, to who, for how many biscuits?"
>
>
>.
>

Larry Samuels wrote:
> They do Neil, but things have been getting out of control in this
> group lately, especially the language content.

That was eddiepox.
> That is the main reason I haven't posted here recently. While I
> support the aims of the MCNGP and enjoy honorary membership, as a MVP
> I will not knowingly violate the rules of conduct (though I have done
> so either unknowingly or in anger in the past)

larry, is bill still trying to get you to negotiate a meeting with me?

"Larry Samuels" <> wrote in message
news:...
> They do Neil, but things have been getting out of control in this group
> lately, especially the language content.
> That is the main reason I haven't posted here recently. While I support
the
> aims of the MCNGP and enjoy honorary membership, as a MVP I will not
> knowingly violate the rules of conduct (though I have done so either
> unknowingly or in anger in the past)
>
> --
> Larry Samuels MS-MVP (Windows-Shell/User)
> Associate Expert
> Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
> Unofficial FAQ for Windows Server 2003 at
> http://pelos.us/SERVER.htm
> "Neil" <> wrote in message
> news:Xns94F6CCA37F415neilmcsehotmailcom@207.46.248.16...
> > "No One" <> wrote in
> > news:13d1401c4442e$aa6c5fb0$:
> >
> >> And, frankly, this
> >> particular NG provides me with my daily bit of
> >> jocularity.
> >
> > this is the reason I hang around. I would stay here for no other reason.
> > I hope that MS recognises the value of skilled people (many MCNGPers
are,
> > though I will not be so vain as to say that I am highly skilled I just
do
> > what I can) and provide those who don't know better a valuable
service...
> >
> > IMHO
> >
> > --
> > Neil MCNGP #30
> > "you'd do what, to who, for how many biscuits?"
>
>

"no one" <> wrote in
news:1447e01c444b1$fab36ee0$:
> It all boils
> down to the fact that these people are trying to come in
> to the MCSE world and want everyone else to do all their
> legwork for them.

not just thier leg work, all of thier work. As for the language, yes I
have gotten a bit hot under the collar and used more colour than might be
neccessary. but some posters will not pay attention to much else. Shock
seems to be the only way to get people to wake up and realize they have
crossed a line. If I have offended anyone, I will appologise. If they
have not offended me, all reason, and my certification that is.

and that's down to ms. The sad fact is that any idiot can pass these
exams. So, when ms change the format of the exams, that's when you
will see a reduction in this type of 'actively'.

Not exactly true...If any idiot could pass the exams, there would be no
market for Braindumps, Cheat sheets, Boot Camps or even legtimate training/
Legitimate Boot Camps.

The GUI interface of W2K/W2K3 server products give a lot of people the False
impression that "any idiot" can manage, administer, operate or configure a
system, network, LAN, WAN...whatever. Once they get into a spot that that
can't be found by blindly clicking on things...they come to NG's, like this
one, or call MS support/consultation as a last resort, for outside help. As
has been said in the past, "Even a broken Clock is right twice a day".

Any Idiot can operate a properly configured system, as long as nothing new
is added, nothing needs to be changed and the users are "well behaved",
after that...it's crunch time. The reason so many basic questions are asked
is incompetent people (hired because they accept the lowest compensation)
are "in charge" of networks. Sometimes the job is forced on them, as an
added responsiblity...along with desktop support, cable dragging, web site
design, Database administration...by the way, when you are through with
that, in your free time, could you move the furniture from the second floor
to the third? That's a good boy! The guy is afraid to get "paid" help from a
consultant, since that would show up on the budget and bring un needed
attention. The issue isn't always one of cheaters, sometimes the person is
in over their head and the company is to too cheap to either train him or
pay for real talent to assist him.

We all know its stupid to argue with a fool, but sometimes you just get
frustrated with the endless stream of SOS ... meaning both terms "Save our
system" as well as "Same old Sh.... I mean Crap". So, there is the
occasional blsphamy directed toward some self important "Git"...the ones
that anger me the most are phrased along the lines of; I know I could look
this up myself, but I it's easier to ask you guys, 'cause its a waste of
time since I'll probable only need this once. Besides you its such a simple
question anyway. I ask you...On how many levels is a "request" like that
insulting, depreciating and stupid?
"The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere" <.> wrote in message
news:...
> >It all boils
> >down to the fact that these people are trying to come in
> >to the MCSE world and want everyone else to do all their
> >legwork for them.
>
> and that's down to ms. The sad fact is that any idiot can pass these
> exams. So, when ms change the format of the exams, that's when you
> will see a reduction in this type of 'actively'.
>
> The problem is ms don't give damn; as far as they are concerned the
> more mcp's the better - mad.
>
> Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3

>On how many levels is a "request" like that
>insulting, depreciating and stupid?

Remember there is no such thing as a stupid question!!!

Well, maybe some of the questions are only stupid in the context of
this ng, which is after all a certification ng.

If those type of questions were posted to a more appropriate ng, they
may not appear as stupid questions. Without seeming to side with the
damn-ass lamers here, a quote I read once rings true - 'A person who
asks the question is a fool for moment, the person who never asked the
question is a fool forever....'. My issue here is with the cheats, the
ignorant, the lazy and the incompetent, not those seeking knowledge.

"Beoweolf" <> wrote in news:e1tQYVZREHA.1004
@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl:
> sometimes the person is
> in over their head and the company is to too cheap to either train him
or
> pay for real talent to assist him.
>

one of the biggest fights I always had as a trainer was the IS manager
who would say "it's not worth it to train them, they'll quit".

I don't remember where I picked up the quote but I used it often.

"He said:What if I pay to train them and they leave?
And I said: What if you don't and they stay?"

fact is this industry changes so fast we are all just swimming and if we
are lucky we will be able to keep our heads up. Training is important
becuase we can't know it all. hopefully companies will begin to recognise
this and losen the purse strings...

>"He said:What if I pay to train them and they leave?
> And I said: What if you don't and they stay?"

I never understand this 'reason'. Companies that don't give their
employee's the respect and acknowledgement they deserve, it's not
surprising they leave.

In any case, many companies (as do mine) build in clauses into
employee contracts that stipulates than any training costs will be
paid back to the company should the employer leave. The amount payable
is calculated on a depreciating scale over a twelve month period. To
me that's fair.
>fact is this industry changes so fast we are all just swimming and if we
>are lucky we will be able to keep our heads up. Training is important
>becuase we can't know it all. hopefully companies will begin to recognise
>this and losen the purse strings...

This is based on short term company economics - save a penny today
costs a dollar tomorrow, vary sad and stupid.

Having said that, it is up to IT departments to present a good
business case for why good, regular training is so vital. No company
should be forced into providing training which will NOT have cost
benefit to the company as a whole, dispite the fact it would enhance
our résumé's!!!!

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