Orthonorm you might preclude a lot of this stuff that's posted against you if you expressed yourself in a way that isn't so insensitive to others' positions which you essentially agree with.

+ ∞

« Last Edit: November 18, 2012, 03:28:18 PM by Severian »

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"I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die [...] These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." -The Lord Jesus Christ

No longer active on OC.net. Please pray for me and forgive any harm I might have caused by my ignorance and malice. Pls email me, don't send PMs.

"Without Change" indicates that a new Subsistent Being (Ousia for some OO, Hypostasis for some OO and all EO) was not created upon the Incarnation; that is, the Logos became incarnate and was the incarnate Logos, rather than some hybrid thing or some mere individuated persona.

Now, the phrase "God became man" contains "became". To have become, something must be something now which it was not before; for God, this was human. So in that sense, The Logos is something now, or has something now, which he did not have or was not in the same way before.

The simple definition of change used by the Oxford dictionary is, "make or become different".

So...

Now, you could say, "He changed without change somehow." But this is sort of a meaningless statement, not because it is impossible for God (it isn't) but because that statement communicates nothing whatsoever. You could also say, "he changed in one way, but did not change in another way." That would be something, then, to talk about.

« Last Edit: November 18, 2012, 06:18:36 PM by NicholasMyra »

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Quote from: Pope Francis

Thank God he said I was a politician because Aristotle defined the human person as 'Animal politicus.' So at least I am a human person.

If God didn't change then that would mean He didn't really become human. End of story. God originally wasn't human since humans were created by Him. Therefore, by becoming human, God would have changed. If God didn't change then it would follow that He didn't really become human.

/circular deceptive Cartesian style argument outline

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Until I see the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come, I will not believe.

If God didn't change then that would mean He didn't really become human. End of story. God originally wasn't human since humans were created by Him. Therefore, by becoming human, God would have changed. If God didn't change then it would follow that He didn't really become human.

/circular deceptive Cartesian style argument outline

Not contradicting - (just adding a pointer)His human nature existed from the beginning.

One thing that keeps coming up in discussions about Christianity is the claim that the doctrine of the Trinity is of pagan origin. This claim is made by some Protestants, Jehovah's Witnesses, and even atheists. Can anyone point me to some *thorough* refutations of this?

How are you defining "pagan"?

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If you will, you can become all flame.Extra caritatem nulla salus.In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness". सर्वभूतहितἌνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas GandhiY dduw bo'r diolch.

. It is sorta the whole point of the Incarnation, knowing, changing. Anyhoo.

Yes, knowing and changing is part of the Incarnation, but I think you got it a bit backwards there smoothly moving in the wrong direction, it was about God changing HUMANS so we could know HIM, not Him changing so He could know us, as it is even written in the Gospels, "and [He] had no need that anyone should testify of man, for He knew what was in man."

stay blessed,habte selassie

« Last Edit: November 19, 2012, 05:06:45 PM by HabteSelassie »

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"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10