I am very very new to the world of electric music. I began researching as much as I could yesterday, but my head is still spinning with the vast amount of information which I have yet to process. I have, however, played piano for about 10 years, so I am moderately familiar with playing keyboard instruments.

I would like to purchase a keyboard that I will keep in my college dorm room (I don't have easy access to practice rooms). From what I have gathered, I have two options that seem feasible, but I don't know enough to make an informed decision: I could either buy a keyboard with lots of sounds built in (a workstation??) or I could buy a controller keyboard and later add on modules (??) which would have more sounds.

I am still unclear as to what a module really is and whether or not what I described is even true. I may be more comfortable buying a complete package which has everything in one. I would like to be able to use the keyboard to practice classical and jazz piano, as well as to begin learning to play progressive rock. Ideally, I would like to have access to sounds such as those used by Jordan Rudess of Dream Theater (though I don't ever expect to be able to play like him!).

I was considering the Korg Triton Extreme as the workstation, because it has weighted keys (something I feel is very important), appears to be relatively easy to work with, and has a large amount of sounds available right off the bat. I was wondering if it would be possible to buy a controller keyboard and somehow add the type of sounds I am looking for with a separate device? If so, how does the price of that option compare with the workstation?

I apologize for my novel-sized post, but if anybody could share some advice with me I would greatly appreciate it!

hi Rob
in one perspective synths come in 2 flavours - midi and non-midi.
if you buy a workstation with weighted keys and a huge menu of built in sounds, you can connect this device to other midi synths and use it to control those synths as well. (basically any synth built after about 1983 has midi)

so maybe the Triton will be a good choice for you, it has enough goodies under its hood to keep you entertained for a long time
and, via midi, can be used to control other synths, drum machines, etc.

non-midi synths are basically old ones (pre 80s) or 'modulars'
- are made up of 'modules'
each module has a different function - one makes a tone, another filters the tone, another amplifies it, there are literally 100s (1000s?) of modules out there......it can become an addiction - "j j just one more module"
modules connect with 'patch-cords' and generally just send low voltage analogue signals to each other (midi is all digital).
Personally, i don't use midi or even keyboards, but thats just me. Everybody has their way.
cheers
Andrew

I would like to purchase a keyboard that I will keep in my college dorm room (I don't have easy access to practice rooms). From what I have gathered, I have two options that seem feasible, but I don't know enough to make an informed decision: I could either buy a keyboard with lots of sounds built in (a workstation??) or I could buy a controller keyboard and later add on modules (??) which would have more sounds.

You can also buy a workstation, and add "modules" which has more sounds.

A "module" these days can mean two things, really. The first is a hardware box that you put on a standard 19" equipment rack. These are made to give access to more sounds without the bulky keyboard attached. Usually the modules are cheaper, but sometimes functionality is reduced from what a workstation has... usually the display is seriously compromised.

You can also add software "modules" with even more sounds if you work in a computer environment. Totally separate subject.

My personal preference: I would go for the workstation first -- if nothing else for the bigger displays they have, which makes navigation easier. The Korg Triton Extreme is a good choice considering that Dream Theater is a Korg Oasys fan these days. The Korg Triton Extreme also has many good feature in case you wish to expand your sounds in the future.

. Ideally, I would like to have access to sounds such as those used by Jordan Rudess of Dream Theater (though I don't ever expect to be able to play like him!).

YAYYY!!!!! Dream Theater RULES!!!
They're my inspiration too!!!

Can I also get in here, I'm a newbie too. I play guitar etc. but am new to keyboards. I want to make "progressive-ambient-rock" music and I love the spacy sounds.

I've been looking at a simple Yamaha 'personal keyboard" for $199, it has lots of great chorus & space sounds and a teach yourself module, and I assume I can record the sounds & tweak them on the computer. I'm also hoping I could use some of the sample software packs?? Or not?

Can anyone advise me on keyboards? Some people tell me I should just get a MIDI controller. But as a newbie I'm thinking the learning curve would be too steep (learning to play keys PLUS operating MIDI Plus CuBase). I want to spend more time playing & creating, and less time "programming'.

Any keyboard advice?
'_________________The most important gear is the brain behind the instrument.

It depends on how daring you want to be. Consider used equipment instead. If your budget is an issue, small collections of effects might help, and those can be had for a lot less than new stuff. You need reverb, flanging, and pad sounds for starters, but to be daring you will probably be unsatisfied with a small keyboard after a while.

This is only my opinion, and I hope others join in, but it is what I think._________________Garret: It's so retro.
EGM: What does retro mean to you?
Parker: Like, old and outdated.Home,My Studio,and another view

It depends on how daring you want to be. Consider used equipment instead. If your budget is an issue, small collections of effects might help, and those can be had for a lot less than new stuff. You need reverb, flanging, and pad sounds for starters, but to be daring you will probably be unsatisfied with a small keyboard after a while.

This is only my opinion, and I hope others join in, but it is what I think.

It's really hard to say. Since I don't know my stuff, I'd find it hard to evaluate used equipment. I believe I can find reverb & flanging stuff on my present CoolEdit software... not sure how that can be translated into Cubase. I'm wondering whether any of this is on the keyboard before the music is recorded...what are pad sounds?

The Yamaha keyboards do have a wide variety of 'voices', every kind of instrument. Possibly that's adventurous enough for me. Possibly just the challenge of learning to play is enough of an adventure. Plus I have this idea that the creativity of composing still works magic even if you don't have a million effects.

Not sure though. It would be great if I could actually meet people who do this stuff and watch what they do.

I live in the Philly burbs. I see that there is an event in July. Any others thru the year?_________________The most important gear is the brain behind the instrument.

It depends on how daring you want to be. Consider used equipment instead. If your budget is an issue, small collections of effects might help, and those can be had for a lot less than new stuff. You need reverb, flanging, and pad sounds for starters, but to be daring you will probably be unsatisfied with a small keyboard after a while.

This is only my opinion, and I hope others join in, but it is what I think.

It's really hard to say. Since I don't know my stuff, I'd find it hard to evaluate used equipment. I believe I can find reverb & flanging stuff on my present CoolEdit software... not sure how that can be translated into Cubase. I'm wondering whether any of this is on the keyboard before the music is recorded...what are pad sounds?

Well...

"pad sounds" are the rich, spacey, long sounds that are usually used in backgrounds. If you are looking for ambient sounds, pads are where you start. Some keyboards actually list "pads".

As far as "not knowing your stuff" do you know what sounds good to you?
You should go with what sounds good to you. That's what I do!

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The Yamaha keyboards do have a wide variety of 'voices', every kind of instrument. Possibly that's adventurous enough for me. Possibly just the challenge of learning to play is enough of an adventure. Plus I have this idea that the creativity of composing still works magic even if you don't have a million effects.

You are very much in the right here. You don't need whiz bangs to be good at music. You need to have good music. By the way, we like to hear music!

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Not sure though. It would be great if I could actually meet people who do this stuff and watch what they do.

You are near a fairly good sized local community, but please try to work with the forums, there is a larger community here, if you want to meet us.

The forums at large are much bigger than your local area. We think this is a good thing, it's bigger than any of our local areas._________________Garret: It's so retro.
EGM: What does retro mean to you?
Parker: Like, old and outdated.Home,My Studio,and another view

It depends on how daring you want to be. Consider used equipment instead. If your budget is an issue, small collections of effects might help, and those can be had for a lot less than new stuff. You need reverb, flanging, and pad sounds for starters, but to be daring you will probably be unsatisfied with a small keyboard after a while.
.

I was told that the cheapy 'home'keyboards are fun, but in a few years the keys start to break & stuff. So I was steered in the direciton of 'starter' synths such as ROLAND JUNO-D. It is $495 and it seems to have MIDI capability as well as lots of sounds and some dials to tweak them.

I'm curious, does anyone make electro-music with any OTHER instruments besides keyboards & MIDI?

If I get serious in this kind of music, I'm afraid I won't have time to practice my electric guitar. I'll have to choose one or the other. _________________The most important gear is the brain behind the instrument.

Lots of electro-musicians use other instruments, especially guitar. At the electro-music festivals we have also seen theremins, flutes, saxophones, drums, trumpets, various toys, home-made instruments and noise machines. Plus vocalists. And don't forget that synthesizers, both hard and soft, can be played from non-keyboard controllers, midi as well as analog.

Lots of electro-musicians use other instruments, especially guitar. At the electro-music festivals we have also seen theremins, flutes, saxophones, drums, trumpets, various toys, home-made instruments and noise machines. Plus vocalists. And don't forget that synthesizers, both hard and soft, can be played from non-keyboard controllers, midi as well as analog.

So, are there live performers & bands that do this kind of music in 'real time'? Are there 'jam bands'? I would love to play in one of those!_________________The most important gear is the brain behind the instrument.

I was told that the cheapy 'home'keyboards are fun, but in a few years the keys start to break & stuff. So I was steered in the direciton of 'starter' synths such as ROLAND JUNO-D. It is $495 and it seems to have MIDI capability as well as lots of sounds and some dials to tweak them.

From my point of view... The main issue with many cheapie "home" keyboards, from an electronic music perspective, is that (in general) the sounds are completely un-editable. Don't like that reverb on that piano and want to turn it off? Want to maybe increase the attack on that synth lead? You usually are SOL with a cheapie home keyboard. You *can* find these features on the more professional "arranger" keyboards, but these cost as much as a regular synth workstation. (Often more.)

If you *don't* need to edit your sounds, as far as I'm concerned there is not a whole lot of difference between today's "arranger" keyboards and beginner ROMpler synths like the Roland Juno D.

I'm curious if there are more women in electro music than in 'rock'. I play guitar, bass, banjo etc. I'm usually in a very small minority of girls. I joined an all women bluegrass band in the 70s 'cause I thought if there were guys in the band they would hit on me and my hubby would have a problem.

Oooooo, another BANJO player! Far out!

laura woodswalker wrote:

I'm curious, does anyone make electro-music with any OTHER instruments besides keyboards & MIDI?

If I get serious in this kind of music, I'm afraid I won't have time to practice my electric guitar. I'll have to choose one or the other.

After 36 years of learning how to articulate up-picked and frailed banjo, with some finger picked guitar when I'm in the mood, it would be hopeless for me to try to be serious about keyboard at this point. I'd recommend thinking about leveraging those hard-earned skills of yours! I took a listen to http://www.geocities.com/shadow42.geo/insect-summer.html and realy like those clips; I'm especially partial to "Frogs," being a big Spring Peeper fan. The crickets took me back to the last track on the Grateful Dead's Blues for Allah of 1975 (which I have covered on banjo). You would have loved the Song Cycle of the Everglades done at electro-music 2007 in Cheltenham last June, see http://www.evergladesmusic.com/ and http://cdbaby.com/cd/jtjbadb .

Mic-based sampling, MIDI guitar and signal processing of acoustic instruments are all possibilities. At http://www.virb.com/dparson is an acoustic banjo (no MIDI) run through some simple delay lines in Ableton Live, although the highpoint is my daughter Sierra's spoken word composition starting around 12:00 in the piece. The other sounds are all sampled household machinery, juxtaposed, mixed and syned with Live. I've attached two other samples - these are always works in progress for me, this still being a part-time activity - to demo some electric MIDI guitar. "Fifth Sunday" is sort of ambient finger picked electric guitar; the tinkly pad is from the Roland GR33 guitar synth (I'm playing a Godin MIDI guitar, the first electric instrument I bought in 35 years, although our kids have always had electric instruments around the house); the more continuous pad is from the StringStudio softsynth, which I drove with an emulated keyboard from the computer, and mixed with a cheap, cheezy software sequencer. "Opposing Force" is 'battlefield ambient' -- the MIDI output is run through some custom software of mine and then StringStudio to get the blasts and whirring machine sounds; the guitar is meant to emulate a helicopter, my son Jeremy's bass a tank. I wrote this a few days after the '04 prez election, and wrote both tunes on banjo. The original plan for Opposing Force was to have Jermey fire a plastic pellet machine gun into the banjo head as I played, but we were afraid of hitting someone in the eye. The piece was inspired by watching Patti Smith rapidly break a series of flatpicks while blasting out an anti-war song at the TLA on South Street a few weeks before the Iraq invasion.

The most recent banjo project is a collaboration with Inventor at the bottom of here http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-20030.html to pull finger picking speed & related components out of a banjo or guitar audio stream, with no MIDI.

I think what you will find is that there is a lot more need to roll your own sound processing when playing MIDI or non-MIDI guitar or banjo than there is playing keyboard, but the keyboard players here all roll their own anyway. Good luck whichever way you go, keyboards or strings, but in either case there's plenty of space to create.

Hope to see you at Cheltenham in June of not before. If I ever get the time to drag some of this stuff to do an open mic at Phoenixville (Steel City Coffee House) or WXPN's open mic Monday evening, I'll let you know. Take care.

After 36 years of learning how to articulate up-picked and frailed banjo, with some finger picked guitar when I'm in the mood, it would be hopeless for me to try to be serious about keyboard at this point. I'd recommend thinking about leveraging those hard-earned skills of yours!

Thanks for the advice... I loved bluegrass banjo, but I found it kind of limiting musically. (this was in the 70s.) When some of my bandmates wanted to do ragtime & jazz, I didn't fit in. IMO bluegrass banjo didn't sound good in those genres.

Nowadays I would prefer to learn something new, rather than polish up skills that are "old news" and that I have forgotten for a very long time. Of course, I love to take out the banjo from time to time, but it doesn't inspire me like learning keyboard does.

Thanks. I have thoughts of contributing my tracks to some Nature-oriented organization or project who might be able to use them in a similar effort. Here in eastern PA we need conservation as desperately as the Everglades do!

I am also looking in the direction of using my many insect & bird soundclips in my own ambient recordings that I'm learning to do.

Anyone know how to upload soundclips to this group, if that is possible?

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Mic-based sampling, MIDI guitar and signal processing of acoustic instruments are all possibilities.

I have a 12-string fretless Turkish banjo. I think I'm going to do some recording with that!

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At http://www.virb.com/dparson is an acoustic banjo (no MIDI) run through some simple delay lines in Ableton Live, although the highpoint is my daughter Sierra's spoken word composition starting around 12:00 in the piece. The other sounds are all sampled household machinery, juxtaposed, mixed and syned with Live. I've attached two other samples - these are always works in progress for me, this still being a part-time activity - to demo some electric MIDI guitar.

For some reason my WinAmp won't open these. Are they at some different speed? My computer can't find any of the sites you referenced.

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Hope to see you at Cheltenham in June of not before. If I ever get the time to drag some of this stuff to do an open mic at Phoenixville (Steel City Coffee House)

Dale

Way cool! I live near Steel City.

Laura_________________The most important gear is the brain behind the instrument.

Thanks for the advice... I loved bluegrass banjo, but I found it kind of limiting musically. (this was in the 70s.) When some of my bandmates wanted to do ragtime & jazz, I didn't fit in. IMO bluegrass banjo didn't sound good in those genres.

Yeah, I lost interest playing straightahead bluegrass banjo around the end of the 70's, was too busy with work+grad school in the 80's, and got seriously back into frailing in the 90's when we started covering American history in homeschool. My banjos are open backs. Then, shortly after 2000, I started listening to a lot of jazz, including the modal jazz of Miles, Coltrane Bill Evans and others from the late 50's and early 60's, as well as some later stuff like Miles 'In a Silent Way,' and right away I could hear harmonic connections between modal jazz and the modal mountain I was frailing. Frailing didn't provide a way to swing the rhythm, so I started up picking again, first serious up picking in > 10 years, but I stopped wearing finger picks, to give a variety of inflection, and also would move the drone/pedal point strings around, sometimes to internal strings, developed some of my own finger patterns including moving accents around. So even though some of it is derived from bluegrass playing style, it's pretty versatile.

I'm sure you were a lot better at playing bluegrass than I, which probably accounts for my relatively easy escape from it on the banjo My picking is a lot less sophisticated than people like Bela Fleck or Alison Brown, both of whome do some serious jazz inflected work, more folksy. I'm very happy to have stumbled onto this after so many years.

Anyway, have fun with the keyboards or guitar. This web site is a great place to find out what's available.

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Anyone know how to upload soundclips to this group, if that is possible?

Click "Add an attachment" when you post, then browse for a file, then add the file. Not sure of the file size limits, but the system will enforce them.

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I have a 12-string fretless Turkish banjo. I think I'm going to do some recording with that!

I would definitely like to hear that!

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For some reason my WinAmp won't open these. Are they at some different speed? My computer can't find any of the sites you referenced.

The VIRB site has its own player, which requires Adobe Flash to run. You should be able to go to http://www.virb.com/dparson and download the Ordinary machinery mp3 file with any browser.

Have fun with your music!_________________When the stream is deep
my wild little dog frolics,
when shallow, she drinks.

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