No thoughts on Terron Armstead from Arkansas Pine Bluff? He's 6'5 306lbs and ran a 4.65 at the combine, supossedly had an "outstanding" combine. Then Mayock gave him some high praise:

If that is the case, where is he going to be drafted? Guys with his athleticism and the ability to start at LT don't grow on trees, and he's been a steady riser all off-season. We are giving him a private workout, and he'd be our instant starter at RT.

Easily one of the most underrated guys in this draft. Armstead is a stud.

Not the best of numbers for somebody that is the size of a safety. He made far too many of his tackles downfield due to lack of aggression and took bad angles chasing ball carriers for my tastes.

How many safeties are in the 235-240 range? I'm not sure where you got the lack of aggression and bad angles things from. Those are actually strong points for him.

edit: and come to think of it, 4.58 is a really, really good time for a big safety..and a fantastic one for a linebacker. Alec Ogletree, considered the "athlete" among the MLB bunch, ran a 4.7 when only 6 lbs heavier than Brown. Only two linebackers at the combine ran faster than Brown. The only safeties who ran that fast at the combine weighed 20-25 lbs less than Brown. His speed is great no matter how you look at it. His bench is right up there with the best of the non-rush LBs. His vertical was average.

TL;DR version: He's the same size as the rest of the MLB prospects and much faster than them. His numbers are good.

Didn't expect to see Jesse Williams to run a 4.91 forty at 325 lbs. I saw some explosion in his game but that is pretty fast. I am really interested to see if someone posts a 10 yard split. Don't forget he posted 30 reps at the combine as well. I actually like him as a 1 tech prospect but I know most people think he should stick as 5 tech in the 3-4.

How many safeties are in the 235-240 range? I'm not sure where you got the lack of aggression and bad angles things from. Those are actually strong points for him.

edit: and come to think of it, 4.58 is a really, really good time for a big safety..and a fantastic one for a linebacker. Alec Ogletree, considered the "athlete" among the MLB bunch, ran a 4.7 when only 6 lbs heavier than Brown. Only two linebackers at the combine ran faster than Brown. The only safeties who ran that fast at the combine weighed 20-25 lbs less than Brown. His speed is great no matter how you look at it. His bench is right up there with the best of the non-rush LBs. His vertical was average.

TL;DR version: He's the same size as the rest of the MLB prospects and much faster than them. His numbers are good.

Nope, his numbers are absolutely terrible! Your Bears definitly shouldn´t take this guy!

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Justin Tucker is a better and more productive NFL player than Brandon Graham.

How many safeties are in the 235-240 range? I'm not sure where you got the lack of aggression and bad angles things from. Those are actually strong points for him.

edit: and come to think of it, 4.58 is a really, really good time for a big safety..and a fantastic one for a linebacker. Alec Ogletree, considered the "athlete" among the MLB bunch, ran a 4.7 when only 6 lbs heavier than Brown. Only two linebackers at the combine ran faster than Brown. The only safeties who ran that fast at the combine weighed 20-25 lbs less than Brown. His speed is great no matter how you look at it. His bench is right up there with the best of the non-rush LBs. His vertical was average.

TL;DR version: He's the same size as the rest of the MLB prospects and much faster than them. His numbers are good.

According to your numbers, he weighed 236 and ran between 4.56 and 4.62. I'm sure he weighed 236, with rocks in his pockets and nearly 3 months to put on 10 lbs to his 226 lb body. His 4.56-4.62 wasn't electronic... There's a better chance that his times were 4.66 to 4.72... which would put him on par with Ogletree, Greene, and way worse than a few others. Twenty one reps for an inside LB isn't very good. It isn't terrible either... I'm actually more impressed with that considering his shoulder has been hurt. The 32.5 VJ is not good at all.

I watched Brown several times this season as I wanted to see the Mike and Sam prospects for the Bucs and everytime I watched Brown I came away thoroughly unimpressed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monomach

Scouts had Arthur Brown running between 4.56 and 4.62 at 236 lb.

21 bench reps, 32.5 vertical

Supposedly crushed the drills.

First round lock, people.

Agree to disagree with your first round lock analysis. Perhaps the games I watched Brown play were his worst games (against Oregon he was HORRIBLE). He often stood flat-footed in that game as the runner/runners ran by him... he even seemed to turn down contact, didn't even look especially athletic in space or pursue the ball hard. At no time did I see him diagnose the play and attempt to meet the play moving forward. I put his chance of landing in round one at right around ZERO.

Didn't expect to see Jesse Williams to run a 4.91 forty at 325 lbs. I saw some explosion in his game but that is pretty fast. I am really interested to see if someone posts a 10 yard split. Don't forget he posted 30 reps at the combine as well. I actually like him as a 1 tech prospect but I know most people think he should stick as 5 tech in the 3-4.

I saw some sites having his 40 times as low as 4.95, I didn't think he'd actually do it though.

I just rewatched the Oregon-K State game Arthur Brown video on youtube ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2tqlm-njjw )... He looks nearly undraftable from that game. At least 5-6 missed tackles. Horrible angles, ZERO depth on his drops. Overall, the K-State D played extremely well against the highpowered Ducks... but Brown was terrible.

I then watched the 2012 Texas game... Arthur Brown is always going to have shoulder problems because when he's not missing tackles all together, he's arm tackling. I wanted to like him so badly because of his athleticism (and I love the productive undersized LBs) but he really doesn't diagnose correctly very often, have a great feel for coverage, show much awareness, tackle well. Before I watched the youtube videos I didn't care for him... now I hate him.

"I think he's a complete football player," said Dantonio when asked what he would tell NFL coaches and general managers regarding Bell. "He's not only just a running back, he's going to block for you, he's going to catch for you, he's going to run down on special teams. He's going to play 15-20 plays a game just on special teams alone. He can fit into all of those different capacities. He's big and he's physical, so he can take the pounding. He's just a solid football player with a lot of carries, he doesn't fumble much, he's got great hands, and he's durable."

According to your numbers, he weighed 236 and ran between 4.56 and 4.62. I'm sure he weighed 236, with rocks in his pockets and nearly 3 months to put on 10 lbs to his 226 lb body. His 4.56-4.62 wasn't electronic... There's a better chance that his times were 4.66 to 4.72... which would put him on par with Ogletree, Greene, and way worse than a few others. Twenty one reps for an inside LB isn't very good. It isn't terrible either... I'm actually more impressed with that considering his shoulder has been hurt. The 32.5 VJ is not good at all.

I watched Brown several times this season as I wanted to see the Mike and Sam prospects for the Bucs and everytime I watched Brown I came away thoroughly unimpressed.

Agree to disagree with your first round lock analysis. Perhaps the games I watched Brown play were his worst games (against Oregon he was HORRIBLE). He often stood flat-footed in that game as the runner/runners ran by him... he even seemed to turn down contact, didn't even look especially athletic in space or pursue the ball hard. At no time did I see him diagnose the play and attempt to meet the play moving forward. I put his chance of landing in round one at right around ZERO.

LOL you are clearly one that knows nothing of what you speak of. Brown weighed in at 241 @ the NFL combine. The guy was 225 coming out of high school, size is not an issue for Arthur.

Secondly, when comparing him to the other linebackers in the class you need to understand the defenses and offenses they were playing.

His tape isn't going to look similar to guys playing in the SEC or one that plays for ND. They play primarily against more pro style offenses where they can play a true MLB position.

The shoulder injury is of little concern, it's the only injury he's had and he probably still would have played with it. It either happened against oregon or in the training process.

I like how you make your assumption on players based on two games. The guy did exactly what he was asked to do against Oregon and you're faulting him for it? Sure he had some bad plays, but not nearly enough to be classified as "undraftable" Watch some film of Ray Lewis @ Miami, Arthurs the closest thing to Ray I've ever seen. I've been watching this guy since high school and he's the real deal.

According to your numbers, he weighed 236 and ran between 4.56 and 4.62. I'm sure he weighed 236, with rocks in his pockets and nearly 3 months to put on 10 lbs to his 226 lb body. His 4.56-4.62 wasn't electronic... There's a better chance that his times were 4.66 to 4.72... which would put him on par with Ogletree, Greene, and way worse than a few others. Twenty one reps for an inside LB isn't very good. It isn't terrible either... I'm actually more impressed with that considering his shoulder has been hurt. The 32.5 VJ is not good at all.

I watched Brown several times this season as I wanted to see the Mike and Sam prospects for the Bucs and everytime I watched Brown I came away thoroughly unimpressed.

Agree to disagree with your first round lock analysis. Perhaps the games I watched Brown play were his worst games (against Oregon he was HORRIBLE). He often stood flat-footed in that game as the runner/runners ran by him... he even seemed to turn down contact, didn't even look especially athletic in space or pursue the ball hard. At no time did I see him diagnose the play and attempt to meet the play moving forward. I put his chance of landing in round one at right around ZERO.

32.5 isn't that bad. I think he is a late first at best, but you can't really make an argument against his measurables. There weren't great or terrible.

LOL you are clearly one that knows nothing of what you speak of. Brown weighed in at 241 @ the NFL combine. The guy was 225 coming out of high school, size is not an issue for Arthur.

Secondly, when comparing him to the other linebackers in the class you need to understand the defenses and offenses they were playing.

His tape isn't going to look similar to guys playing in the SEC or one that plays for ND. They play primarily against more pro style offenses where they can play a true MLB position.

The shoulder injury is of little concern, it's the only injury he's had and he probably still would have played with it. It either happened against oregon or in the training process.

I like how you make your assumption on players based on two games. The guy did exactly what he was asked to do against Oregon and you're faulting him for it? Sure he had some bad plays, but not nearly enough to be classified as "undraftable" Watch some film of Ray Lewis @ Miami, Arthurs the closest thing to Ray I've ever seen. I've been watching this guy since high school and he's the real deal.

Did you watch the two games in mentioned? He looked terrible, indecisive, not physical, etc. K-State asked him to miss tackles, take terrible angles, not get any depth on pass drops.

Obviously you've got a not-so-hidden agenda when it comes to Brown. You've been watching him since high school. Obviously, you want him to do well and in your heart of hearts you shrug off bad performances as accidents and only pay attention to the things you want to see. I don't fault you for that and understand totally where you are coming from.

Again, I wanted to like Brown. Again, from the two tapes I watched recently there was very little to like. Just for you I will go back and find a tape against a team that didn't run the spread.

As for whether he weighed 236 or 241 is not important, I went off monomarch's numbers, not mine. I didn't check to see if his numbers were right or not nor do I care. He's little and from what I have seen, he plays little. Also, according to NFLdraftscout. Brown weighed in, though he didn't play, at the Senior Bowl at 228... tell me how he gained 13 lbs in a month and tell me it is real weight. http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings...013&genpos=OLB

As for me no knowing what I speak of... that's laughable as I am right far more often than I am wrong. I am basing my assessment on what I have seen, not on some love affair wtih a prospect I have been jocking since his high school days. But again, I will go back and watch more of him... but you need to go back and watch the two games I mentioned and tell me you actually SAW him playing well.

32.5 isn't that bad. I think he is a late first at best, but you can't really make an argument against his measurables. There weren't great or terrible.

It's not his measurables I have the problem with, it's his play. Some posters on here believe his measurables suggest he is worthy of first round status, I don't see his measurables as being elite or his tape being good either.

It's not his measurables I have the problem with, it's his play. Some posters on here believe his measurables suggest he is worthy of first round status, I don't see his measurables as being elite or his tape being good either.

Yeah, but you were dogging his measurables as if someone was making the argument that he possessed elite physical characteristics. I'm just pointing out that people who like him never based it on his measurables.