I suppose having a strong regional or town dialect wasn't much of a problem for most people when they didn't travel far from where they were born and bred and didn't mix with others not of their own "class". However in the 21st century intelligent people ought to have progressed much more than we have in this regard. Speaking in a dialect which to all intents and purposes should have been placed in a museum of curiosities is backward, lacking in insight and quite honestly morbid. Dialects belong in museums not in common, everyday parlance.

Doesn't matter who you are, you will have some sort of accent, regional or otherwise. Whether it be Yorkshire, Lancashire, Highland, Lowland, middle counties or affected upper class.

Even the anonymous guest will have an accent of sorts which remains of course undetectable on this forum.

Having been fortunate enough to travel widely in my life my accent is quite a mixture of various ones. Occasionally one pops out and becomes quite distinct depending where I am and who I'm talking with.

I am merely stating that in a country were the population has the opportunity, and the need in the many cases, to communicate with vast numbers of other people not from their own area local dialects are a hindrance. I have heard people say such things as "I can't understand anyone from Barnsley" or "the Cornish dialect is a closed book to me" In the 21st century such dialects are an anachronism and serve only to bar modern, concise, communications between people. Actually most people affected by poor communications would be those "working class lads and lasses" Please note I made no reference at all to music and song as it is not pertinent to this particular discussion. If we want to resurrect things from the past perhaps we could organise a Pageant of Plague or a Glorification of the Gallows. Let me be as presumptive as the second guest and suggest he or she would not relish such. As an aside why should he/she assume I work for Tesco?

Commander I am not referring to accents but dialects. Like you I have lived in numerous places around England and have a "mongrel" accent at best. It is not accents I deem to be antiquated but local dialect which pertains to a small geographic area which, for the most part, is unintelligible to people not from that region. It is small minded, parochial, isolationist and is often, but not always, found in bigoted and prejudiced individuals. I am sure this will set tempers flaring but I would ask them what they would first think of if a "foreigner" i.e. a "cockney" moved next door to them. Bloody Southerner comes to mind. Light the blue touch paper, stand well back and watch the fireworks.

Ok I'll concede the point however if I understand correctly the aim is to outmode all dialects and have everybody speaking proper English so you and others can understand what they are saying.

This, in some "lets make everything standard" way would be very boring. Why can't someone call an alley a "ginnell" or a toilet a "cludgy"? That they can makes life more interesting and varied. They are also to my mind more descriptive in expression.

Making everyone speak proper English doesn't make it more understandable either. You only have to speak to an operative in a call centre far from our shores to realise this.

If you tried to insist that everyone in Birmingham, Cornwall, Lancashire, Yorkshire "should drop the dialect and talk proper" you are definitely going to get told where to go.

This attitude brings to mind the couple who sat next to us in the hotel restaurant on one of our foreign holidays and complained that there was no english food being served! We were in the middle of the Indian Ocean, what did they expect!

On another note, there are songs and poetry from the Scotland, Wales and Ireland sung and spoken in native tongues which are all part of our rich heritage. When translated into english they unfortunately lose the meaning and the essence of the original.

There is a comment under a You Tube performance of "Slan Le Maigh" that says "May this song never be translated into English" and I totally agree it would lose the setting completely.

The OP may hail from 'Ull and talk "East Yorkshire" but having spoken to his good self on a regular basis. Even though I hail not from these parts, he is perfectly understandable and did not merit your comment. "Quaint" though it was.

People are mostly "better for the knowing". Provided you can be bothered to get to know them better.

Commander, I in no way wish to standardise the way in which we speak English, the accent in Cornwall or Northumberland is fine but if you asked the use the Cludgy in Somerset you may find you have s**t yourself before the locals understood what you meant. Nor would I expect to eat English food in the middle of the Indian Ocean any more than I would want a song written in Gaelic to be translated into English. However when I go to Barnsley or Hull I would expect to be able to understand the locals as they ostensibly speak the same language as I do. In my experience, which is quite varied having lived in many places around England, people who persist in speaking in a dialect tend to be those of limited intelligence. A broad brush perhaps but nonetheless true. As I have stated previously, there is nothing wrong in having an accent but to "communicate" in dialect is small minded, parochial and isolationist.

Not seen Booker to drink with for almost 30 years. In fact, if I recall, he had his leg in paster the last time we got plastered... My responsible adult tells me it was at a ceilidh at Montgomery Hall in Wath, but I reckon it was at The Wheatsheaf. That dates the bugger....

If I were indeed needful of a visit to the toilet in Cornwall I would be sure to ask a native Cornish speaker, "Ple'ma an bysva?"

If they weren't a native Cornish speaker I would ask where the toilet is.

I have travelled widely in Cornwall and so far have not s**t myself yet! This may be due to the fact that I have taken the time (unlike you) to familiarise myself with the local dialect over the years.

And I am afraid you have misunderstood me in that. I never said that you personally would expect to eat English food in the middle of the Indian Ocean. I was likening your attitude and expectations regarding language on a brief visit to wherever, to that of the couple I met on my holiday's about food on their brief visit to a foreign country.

Neither did I suggest that you personally wished Gaelic etc. songs or poetry to be translated into English. The statement was intended to illustrate that there is inevitably some loss of meaning or context when translated, no matter what language or dialect.

I have been to both Barnsley and Hull and may I say that although I am not native to the area, I have found little difficulty in understanding those who were born and brought up there. As generally, apart from the occasional different word, they speak the same language "as what I does", albeit with a different accent.

Your broad brush, generalisation that people who continue to speak in their native dialect are of somewhat lower intelligence, is to say the least, crass and arrogant.

There are many dialect speakers of both greater and lesser intelligence, who have devoted and also given their lives to make this a better place for you to live in. So I suggest rather than whinge about their background and upbringing you give thanks they existed and also for their toil and sacrifice.

And, honestly, if being somewhat small minded, parochial and isolationist keeps anal retentive prats like you away from our door. Then I'm all for it.

So if you want to stand in the middle of Barnsley or Hull (or anywhere else for that matter) and exhort the benefits of speaking English properly, help yourself.

Dear Commander, the loss is mine. It must be getting harder to wind people up on this forum. I had hoped to generate some comeback from 'ull but all I've had is a calm response from yourself. Like you I'm out of here, for now. If it is any consolation to you I haven't actually believed a word of the nonsense I've typed but you know McGarry as well as I do and he'll be insufferable for months with this.

Months!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you insult me sirrah!!!! I shall be dining out on this for years!!

I do so much self promoting even I believe me own bullshit at times. You see Prat, one of the great attributes of carrying a big ego is the abillity to laugh at oneself; if you know me as well as you say you do, you would have realised that by now.

Lighten up a bit lad, let us know who you are( by your style I have narrowed you down to two of my so called friends)

Come to Beverley.Fest this weekend, you will find me in the Minster Bar, Sun Inn or Hodgesons at the singarounds there we can sit us down and swap yarns about how amazingly attractive I am.

Oh by the way, in case you missed it, I am on the One show on Monday 7.00pm start..dont worry if you miss it I am having several hundred DVD's copied of the programme, PM me and I will make sure personnely you get a signed copy.

Commander Crabbe:On another note, there are songs and poetry from the Scotland, Wales and Ireland sung and spoken in native tongues which are all part of our rich heritage. When translated into english they unfortunately lose the meaning and the essence of the original.

There is no reason that songs cannot be successfully translated into english. The english language has such a large vocabulary with so much redundancy (or precision) that the translator has a great choice of words or phrases used.

I trust that, with careful work, we can translate almost anything into english, whils retaining the meaning & essence. For an example see Cân y Melinydd

Yes it is possible to successfully translate probably anything into English and get pretty close to the meaning of the original and maybe a portion of the essence.

Pysgod a sglodion may well translate into fish and chips but if the original was written to account for the Welsh accent, dialect and multiple syllables then fish and chips in a Home Counties or Black Country accent and dialect won't translate very well at all.

Words in the end, are just words no matter what language they are written in. It's only when they are lifted off the page by the narrator, poet or singer that they can be given an individual expression, emotion or context. The essence is made up of all of these things.

I never said they couldn't be translated and I'm sure the translation you cite was a labour of love. However, I would still prefer to hear it in the tongue it was written in.

I thought the programme was pretty good, just not enough of Mick and Johnny. I could listen to them talk all day (and understand them), it's a lovely sound. And, I believe, a lot closer to original pronunciation of the words than many a newsreader.