Well, I am setting in a blind at the axis lease watching 5 deer eat my corn. From my high spot, I can see all the way back to Tuthdoc Canyon. Or at least that is what I am calling it now. I am at peace with god this weekend. I could not have said the same thing last weekend. My bow now sports a fancy new TD sticker. I hope to make tuth proud later on this season. I miss him, but understand there is much more going on than what I can control. I am excited that I will be sharing camp this year with Tuths family and friends. Mark, Matt and Dago, looking forward to taking some LDPs this season in honor of John.

Yesterday I sat at a funeral at 11:30 for a 59 year old man named Larry that was very close and like a father to MichaelW. As we sat there, I kept thinking of Johns funeral going on at the same time just on the other side of Houston from where we where. I felt like I was there in spirit and mind.

Later that night I presented a graduation scholarship for Hempstead High and looked up in the top of the PV baby dome only to see a big Pepsi symbol on the scoreboard over head. Once again Tuthdoc came to mind.

I have not drank a pepsi in probably over 10 yrs, but will in honor of him next time I see one at a quickstop, etc....

Krivoman- tell Rothwell after last year he owes it to John to smoke a good one...

Seems like things have slowed down somewhat. For a week or so it has been a whirlwind of grief and emotions felt by everybody that "JOHN LEE" touched by his going ahead of us.

I think it is the appropriate time now to go a step further and reflect on our lifes, and ask ourselves some questions. Are we living our lifes as we should?. Think,...if i pass on right now will as many people take me to their heart as many did with "JOHN". Lets use John's exemplary life as to how we should live ours. Not only will it be beneficial for everbody but also continue John's legacy.

Seems like things have slowed down somewhat. For a week or so it has been a whirlwind of grief and emotions felt by everybody that "JOHN LEE" touched by his going ahead of us.

I think it is the appropriate time now to go a step further and reflect on our lifes, and ask ourselves some questions. Are we living our lifes as we should?. Think,...if i pass on right now will as many people take me to their heart as many did with "JOHN". Lets use John's exemplary life as to how we should live ours. Not only will it be beneficial for everbody but also continue John's legacy.

Seems like things have slowed down somewhat. For a week or so it has been a whirlwind of grief and emotions felt by everybody that "JOHN LEE" touched by his going ahead of us.

I think it is the appropriate time now to go a step further and reflect on our lifes, and ask ourselves some questions. Are we living our lifes as we should?. Think,...if i pass on right now will as many people take me to their heart as many did with "JOHN". Lets use John's exemplary life as to how we should live ours. Not only will it be beneficial for everbody but also continue John's legacy.

There was a lot of that for me personally at the funeral... I like to play the smart arse card from time to time and I really need to work on when and when not to use it. (for everything there is a season)

I used to paint my stands with "Walk with me Fred" to honor Fred Bear but it was more of a fun thing to do rather than an actual tribute (I never met Fred Bear nor did I follow his bowhunting career when I was a kid.) Might see "Walk with me John" on more than a few stands in my future.

Excellent post, Gilbert. I know that many people were touched by the words spoken by Mr. Carnathan, Matt and Mark at the service, and have paused to reflect on the statement that Mr. Carnathan made, and that now appear in Mary's signature, about "What the world needs is more men like John Lee..." (with due respect to the women in this world and on this site). He followed that by having us ask ourselves if our children would say we're good fathers, if our spouses would say we're great husbands, and we can, of course, extend that to brothers/sisters, family, friends, leaders, etc.

I was thinking before the funeral that the world lost a great man when John Lee died, and while it's true that the world was a better place when John was here, it is still a better place, and we are better people, for having had John in our lives. Of course, that is only true if we continue to honor his legacy by remembering and emulating those quality traits that we learned from him.

Personally, like John, I have only daughters (three), and while I think we do a lot together as a family, I have decided that I want to spend more one-on-one time with each of them by taking them to a movie (like John did frequently with Jamie), or to lunch or hanging out with them one at a time, in addition to the time we spend together as a family.

Michael

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Personally, like John, I have only daughters (three), and while I think we do a lot together as a family, I have decided that I want to spend more one-on-one time with each of them by taking them to a movie (like John did frequently with Jamie), or to lunch or hanging out with them one at a time, in addition to the time we spend together as a family.

Michael

This hits home.

Found out last nite....that when your younguns get quiet.....they are screaming inside to talk with you.

Listen!

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found out last nite....that when your younguns get quiet.....they are screaming inside to talk with you.

listen!

sorry mr joey ...but when my youngun is quiet ....something at the farm is fixin to break , or there is a lizard or frog in the toilet , or the lab is locked in the pantry ........sorry couldnt resist ....all in fun ............but i hear ya

Most of my thinking on this has been pretty deep, In a post I made the comment that everyone wants to think they left their mark when they are gone, Obviously, Doc did, but what will my kids think, what will my friends think, I, in no way expect to leave the kind of legacy of Doc, But I have a daughter that I don't know real well, (another story) Anyway, She recently left me a note that she was leaving town (with my grandbabies) and she did not feel as close to me as the rest of my kids, Well she is not and I don't feel like that is all my fault, But if I leave this earth tomorrow, What will she think of me?? I can only hope for the best. I hope I can be rememberer as a good friend, husband, and father

Excellent post, Gilbert. I know that many people were touched by the words spoken by Mr. Carnathan, Matt and Mark at the service, and have paused to reflect on the statement that Mr. Carnathan made, and that now appear in Mary's signature, about "What the world needs is more men like John Lee..." (with due respect to the women in this world and on this site). He followed that by having us ask ourselves if our children would say we're good fathers, if our spouses would say we're great husbands, and we can, of course, extend that to brothers/sisters, family, friends, leaders, etc.

I was thinking before the funeral that the world lost a great man when John Lee died, and while it's true that the world was a better place when John was here, it is still a better place, and we are better people, for having had John in our lives. Of course, that is only true if we continue to honor his legacy by remembering and emulating those quality traits that we learned from him.

Personally, like John, I have only daughters (three), and while I think we do a lot together as a family, I have decided that I want to spend more one-on-one time with each of them by taking them to a movie (like John did frequently with Jamie), or to lunch or hanging out with them one at a time, in addition to the time we spend together as a family.

Michael

I had an eye opening experience a number of years ago. I spent a lot of time with my daughter when she was 2 and then a lot from her teens up. I wish I'd spent more time with her in between but glad my involvement increased while she was still willing to allow it. If I'd waited a couple more years, it probably would have been too late. We still have one-on-one time at least every couple of months and she's 26. If I go too long without setting it up, she'll text me and ask me to go out with her. She'll even pick up the check sometimes. My wife and I go out on a date almost every Thursday evening. Ocassionally my daughter will ask what our plans are and I know that means she wants to tag along with us.

Make time for and cherish time with your family. She's getting married in December and who knows if the future S-I-L will want her to be that involved in our lives.

Most of my thinking on this has been pretty deep, In a post I made the comment that everyone wants to think they left their mark when they are gone, Obviously, Doc did, but what will my kids think, what will my friends think, I, in no way expect to leave the kind of legacy of Doc, But I have a daughter that I don't know real well, (another story) Anyway, She recently left me a note that she was leaving town (with my grandbabies) and she did not feel as close to me as the rest of my kids, Well she is not and I don't feel like that is all my fault, But if I leave this earth tomorrow, What will she think of me?? I can only hope for the best. I hope I can be rememberer as a good friend, husband, and father

It has been a rough week for us so far. Jen and I both started back to work on Monday, and that sorta helps to take our minds off the loss, but its so hard to get back going. I almost feel like everyone tells you its time to move on and try and forget what happened, but I am just not ready to do that yet.

Another lesson I take from John, is the fact that your kids are not always going to be interested in what we are interested in. We can hope for that, but doesn't always happen. I have 2 boys, and its my hope that they are both avid hunters and sports freaks, like me. If they do not show those same interests its on me, to get into whatever it is that they are into. Its not their job to adapt to me, I have to adapt to them, its my responsibility as a parent.

When it was apparent that neither of John's daughters were going to be hunters he became involved in their activities. Concerts, Dance, Friday Night Football Games, Movie Watching, etc. He was really good at making his girls feel special, and that seems to be the key.

He loved to fish, I didn't. I love to play golf, he didn't. He took up golf the last few years so he and I could have something we could do together in the spring. He could have went fishing, and I would not have cared, I knew it is what he loved to do, but he chose to spend that time with me on a golf course. That is the kind of man and father figure John was to me.

He never forced fishing on me. You guys think he was smart about hunting, you should have spent a day on the water with him. He was so good it was scary. He could tell my heart wasn't in it, so he decided to do things with me that I was more into, and I cannot thank him enough for that.

I really hope that my boys want to hunt and play sports just like I did, but if they don't I am going to take a page out of John's notebook (very extensive notebook) and get involved in their other activities so we will have that special bond John shared with both his daughters.

Matt, you're doing everything right, man. I lost my father 19 years ago from a sudden heart-attack when he was only 56 and I was 19. I didn't want to get over it, I wanted to remember him every way I could. His voice, his mannerisms, his sayings, his laugh....you name it. It was my own way of dealing with it. I'm a self-confessed tear-shedder and I can't count the amount of time I spent sitting in the grass by my father's grave crying and talking aloud to him. Did that seem strange to some? I'm sure it did, but it's how I dealt with it and after a period of time the pain and giant hole that I felt lessened and those feelings were slowly replaced by the good memories of him and how blessed I was to have such a great father and I still feel that way today.

Regarding your interest in your kids.....you are on the right track!! My dad never forced me to do the things he liked, but I still liked most of them anyway. The things I didn't like weren't forced on me and my dad took special interest and got involved in things that he had no real interest in. That is HUGE to a child and I can't understate that. I too have several kids and I don't know if they will adopt my same interests, but I know I'll adopt theirs. Over the past week the stories of John's life has further reminded me of that. Not just with my children, but in ALL of my relationships. While I never had the privilege of meeting him, he had a huge impact on me by the way he carried himself on this board and also how he took time for everyone, including me. I need to be more like John.....and his life has inspired me to do that. You also inspire me because you also are taking the reigns from John in how you deal with your children and other people. I commend you and thank you for your posts!!

My prayers are still with your family. (and I'm not just saying that casually...I mean it!) I know that one of the hardest parts after losing someone so close is getting back into a routine after the visitors have left, the phone calls and cards in the mail slowly start to die down, and everything has quieted down........but you're still left with a huge hole in your life. Just be sure to do what you have to do each day with regards to spending time, etc. with your family, friends, co-workers, etc., but don't hold back any feelings you have. Talking and crying are great medicine when you're hurting.

Matt, you're doing everything right, man. I lost my father 19 years ago from a sudden heart-attack when he was only 56 and I was 19. I didn't want to get over it, I wanted to remember him every way I could. His voice, his mannerisms, his sayings, his laugh....you name it. It was my own way of dealing with it. I'm a self-confessed tear-shedder and I can't count the amount of time I spent sitting in the grass by my father's grave crying and talking aloud to him. Did that seem strange to some? I'm sure it did, but it's how I dealt with it and after a period of time the pain and giant hole that I felt lessened and those feelings were slowly replaced by the good memories of him and how blessed I was to have such a great father and I still feel that way today.

Regarding your interest in your kids.....you are on the right track!! My dad never forced me to do the things he liked, but I still liked most of them anyway. The things I didn't like weren't forced on me and my dad took special interest and got involved in things that he had no real interest in. That is HUGE to a child and I can't understate that. I too have several kids and I don't know if they will adopt my same interests, but I know I'll adopt theirs. Over the past week the stories of John's life has further reminded me of that. Not just with my children, but in ALL of my relationships. While I never had the privilege of meeting him, he had a huge impact on me by the way he carried himself on this board and also how he took time for everyone, including me. I need to be more like John.....and his life has inspired me to do that. You also inspire me because you also are taking the reigns from John in how you deal with your children and other people. I commend you and thank you for your posts!!

My prayers are still with your family. (and I'm not just saying that casually...I mean it!) I know that one of the hardest parts after losing someone so close is getting back into a routine after the visitors have left, the phone calls and cards in the mail slowly start to die down, and everything has quieted down........but you're still left with a huge hole in your life. Just be sure to do what you have to do each day with regards to spending time, etc. with your family, friends, co-workers, etc., but don't hold back any feelings you have. Talking and crying are great medicine when you're hurting.

I have heard about TD's up and down method to age deer but I havent been able to locate any thread that explains it. Can anyone help with a link

This is from one of John's threads:

I assume any deer that's going to make 125 meet a certain criteria. In other words, any 12 inch deer with 6 points ain't gonna make it. So, what I look for is an average down. Measurements that most deer that make 125 will meet or exceed. Those measurements are 15 inches inside, 20 inch beams, and 25 inches in mass. That'll give him 80 inches "down". When the deer comes in, and you wonder if he's 125, you should be able to tell if he's "80 down" instantly. Add up his points in your head. If he's "45 up", then he's 125. If it's close, then see instantly if there's anything that goes over or under the starting point measurements "down". In other words, if you can count 45 inches "up" and you're afraid to shoot, then look at his spread. Is it greater than 15, if so you're probably safe. If his mass is better, then you can add a few inches.

That's how I do it. Sounds complicated, but it works pretty quickly once you know what your "80 down" looks like. If it's close, always underguess when adding. It'll keep you out of how water. If you think a tine is 8 or 9 inches, go 8.

For S Tx deer, I start at 95 then add the tines. If I'm looking to score a potential deer to shoot then I have already decided it is a "mature" deer. As such, I have built in a few averages. Avg spread in S Tx 18's, avg beams 22"s, avg mass 32"s. I can make adjustments to 95 (I give the deer an extra inch to make myself feel he is bigger ). If I think he's 20 inside then I satrt at 97 etc. This base number should come pretty fast 5-7 seconds. Then I start adding tine length on one side and multiple by 2 assuming he matches ( 5" brow, 10" G-2, 8" G-3, 4" G-4 = 27"s x 2= 54). Add 95 to 54 and viola 149. Any kickers go on top. You can get close within 10-15 seconds. Come up with a "average" for your area.

Matt, As others have stated, Only you will know when the time is right for you. I lost my little brother 23 years ago and most folks thought I spent too much time grieving, Well, that is what I needed, Two years ago, I lost my oldest son, I'm not sure I have enough time for that one, But I have to be here for the rest of my kids. No one knows a time limit for something like this, so you take what you need. I think you are a remarkable young man and you will do just fine, If you need anything, Just ask

Its hard waiting on a call that you know is never gonna come, It was hard going to the axis lease knowing he would not be there. Its hard looking in the pass seat of my truck and not seeing that goofy grine knowing he was up to something and I'd pay for what ever it was. It was hard setting up blinds that you know he was the last one to be there and take it down. It was hard drawing my bow and aiming at a really good axis buck , touching my release then whispering this one is your Brother and letting my bow down and watching the buck slowly walk off. It wasn't hard crying like a baby not because I let the buck walk but because he isn't here with me. It will be hard to go to San Ang to a place we built together for almost 10 years, made it a great place to hunt and now he isn't there. Its hard to sleep all night and not wake up thinking about how this could happen. If I could have one wish... I'd take his place, and never think twice.

" Its called hunting not killing" J.D.L......he isn't resting he is finding us a place

Mark and Matt,
Yall are going to be going thru a lot of first for a long time to come. The pain never seems to go away it just kinda scabs over. Every TBH member feels you and your familys pain too. But thank you so much for letting us share our hurt with yall also. And one last thanks for coming to the Green Screen to help you feel better. God Bless

John was usually the one taking all the pictures, so as we were putting together his slide-show we found very few pics with all of us and him in it. I found these, and I thought I would share them with y'all. These pics go with the story of my first good buck that I posted earlier in this thread.

I know they say pictures are worth 1000 words, but these 2 pics are worth more than that to me. I honestly do not know who was more proud that day, John or me?

I miss him so much, there is a big huge void in my life where he used to be. I am glad I have so many great memories to lean on, to help me get through this.

Brazoria County had a Tuthdoc tribute on May 27, 2009. Bearintex's wife took video of the evening. I brought the film home and just now completed it...very sorry for the delay. I went back and forth with what I wanted to do with it....and here is what I came up with.

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I don't have the words, When I went back to work Monday I had an E-mail from John . It was sent at 6:00 am on the day it all started. Now why he sent me an E-mail at work I don't Know , he knew I took off work to pack for our hunt. He went into detail about our hunt and where he wanted to put all those trail cams he was taking ,He talked about things that were going on in my life and assured me what ever I decided to do between my wife and I he would back me 100% either way . John talked to me the way only he could. He let me know that he knew that 09 had been very very hard for me but he promised it would get better, For the first time John was wrong 09 hit rock bottom for me some 5 hours later. Reading his words 2 weeks after, was a very hard thing to do. He called me at 8:04 that morning and he never told me he E-mailed me nor did he send it to my house. This is one part of John
(the details) I will never share.

Doc actually gave me the feeding plan we use for our deer. He looked at topo maps I emailed him and he told us where to corn the roads, when to start doing it and when to stop. He pointed out where we should put protein feeders also. In the 5 years since he gave us the idea we haven't changed it. The guy was the most helpful and knowledegable hunter I have ever known.