" Im against animal testing for like makeup and hair spray and stuff, its not like we really need a new formula of it so they should use paid volunteers for that. Now when it comes to actual like medications and curing diseases if hooking a monkeys brain up to a car battery is gonna cure AIDS or cancer all I have to say is red is positive and black is negative"

[www.animevortex.net image 801x572]Look at that, all the same pics were used. Like brothas from anotha mutha.

It's offensive when you compare black people to chimps. It was used as rationale fire some horrific acts of racism, not to mention black people share a closer skin tone and facial features with primates than white folk.

I understand the whole thing about Chimps being almost genetically identical to humans, therefore it is reasonable to perform research on them.But at this point, what else can we possibly learn? It's like, "let's smear hydrochloric acid on this Chimps eyes and make a graph of what happens." What the bloody hell do you think is going to happen?!

I propose that we replace that entire program with prisoners on death row. Their dead anyway. And if anyone is more genetically close to humans, it's humans. (d'uh).

[www.animevortex.net image 801x572]Look at that, all the same pics were used. Like brothas from anotha mutha.

It's offensive when you compare black people to chimps. It was used as rationale fire some horrific acts of racism, not to mention black people share a closer skin tone and facial features with primates than white folk.

So its wrong to say a black guy looks like a monkey because black people look like monkeys?

durbnpoisn:But at this point, what else can we possibly learn? It's like, "let's smear hydrochloric acid on this Chimps eyes and make a graph of what happens." What the bloody hell do you think is going to happen?!

I think SIV is similar to HIV but giving humans HIV is a really bad idea.

[www.animevortex.net image 801x572]Look at that, all the same pics were used. Like brothas from anotha mutha.

It's offensive when you compare black people to chimps. It was used as rationale fire some horrific acts of racism, not to mention black people share a closer skin tone and facial features with primates than white folk.

" Im against animal testing for like makeup and hair spray and stuff, its not like we really need a new formula of it so they should use paid volunteers for that. Now when it comes to actual like medications and curing diseases if hooking a monkeys brain up to a car battery is gonna cure AIDS or cancer all I have to say is red is positive and black is negative"

I like Henrik Ibsen's quote better:

"It is inexcusable for scientists to torture animals; let them make their experiments on journalists and politicians."

[www.animevortex.net image 801x572]Look at that, all the same pics were used. Like brothas from anotha mutha.

It's offensive when you compare black people to chimps. It was used as rationale fire some horrific acts of racism, not to mention black people share a closer skin tone and facial features with primates than white folk.

So its wrong to say a black guy looks like a monkey because black people look like monkeys?

No it's wrong to say that because our country has a history of using those images to depict people as subhuman as part of a systematic process to politically subdue and racially discriminate. If you don't understand the distinction, read some books about it. It's not a concept out of vogue either, as only a few years ago certain ethnic groups in Rwanda were compared to cockroaches in an effort to desensitize people into allowing the government to commit genocide.

The comparison of Bush to a chimp is basically because he is the intellectual equivalent of one - and that may be unfair to chimps.

[www.animevortex.net image 801x572]Look at that, all the same pics were used. Like brothas from anotha mutha.

It's offensive when you compare black people to chimps. It was used as rationale fire some horrific acts of racism, not to mention black people share a closer skin tone and facial features with primates than white folk.

So its wrong to say a black guy looks like a monkey because black people look like monkeys?

No it's wrong to say that because our country has a history of using those images to depict people as subhuman as part of a systematic process to politically subdue and racially discriminate. If you don't understand the distinction, read some books about it. It's not a concept out of vogue either, as only a few years ago certain ethnic groups in Rwanda were compared to cockroaches in an effort to desensitize people into allowing the government to commit genocide.

The comparison of Bush to a chimp is basically because he is the intellectual equivalent of one - and that may be unfair to chimps.

No disagreement here, just twisting super grass's nose cause he said something dumb.

It's more than just "Let's be humane!" about things. One of the problems is that, inreasingly, *chimps just aren't that useful* in research.

Even the small amount of genetic difference is enough to completely alter some outcomes: we've apparently cured HIV *in chimps*, and come up with vaccines that work *in chimps* dozens of times-but the differences in our immune systems are enough that it doesn't work in human trials.

We're also getting better at creating genetically modded mice that have human immune systems (or very close facilities), etc. If I remember correctly, that is.

durbnpoisn:I understand the whole thing about Chimps being almost genetically identical to humans, therefore it is reasonable to perform research on them.But at this point, what else can we possibly learn? It's like, "let's smear hydrochloric acid on this Chimps eyes and make a graph of what happens." What the bloody hell do you think is going to happen?!

I propose that we replace that entire program with prisoners on death row. Their dead anyway. And if anyone is more genetically close to humans, it's humans. (d'uh).

There's still plenty of diseases we don't understand and new drugs we need to test. Typically we try to simulate a disorder, then see if the drug helps or hurts. The higher up the evolutionary ladder the better chances it'll work on people. We've cured things on rats millions of times over, then it gets tried on dogs and it fails to work. Oh, and we also test on humans all the time. That's the last stage.

Yea, but what about that fine print? Does that include other species of primate? Because these guys also use various species of monkeys to conduct research.

I hate to be the one to be a downer, but as much as animal research is apparently needed. They do use other kinds of monkies in their research. Removing chimps is like a drop in the bucket.

And that still won't prevent researchers whom utilize local university research labs from co opting a few of their chimps and or primates for experiments. It is not exactly unknown for a government researcher to also hold positions with other private labs and university labs while working for the federal government.

Still reduced reliance in some labs on primates is a good thing. Even though in the long run there are quite a few loopholes in the whole announcement.

Good. Animal research is necessary but I don't think chimp research is ethical. I don't know exactly how I'd define sentience but if three-year-old humans are sentient than so are chimps.

It's tricky. I grew up on a farm and slaughtered and ate animals that I helped birth and raise, and yet they're very tasty. They were all sentient, but none of them had much claim to sapience though.

At the same time, I have also voluntarily been poked, prodded and studied the fark out of by the NIH. I live near the Bethesda campus, and whenever work is slow I (paid) volunteer for studies. So I've been fMRIed, they have probably a gallon or so of my blood, my entire genome, they've drugged me, they've tested me, and they even have a few samples of spinal fluid from me.

I do this as a consenting primate, and I do so after signing a zillion carefully detailed consent forms. Apes.... Well, they tend to be treated well and live a better life than they would in the wild, and there are more controls on abusing them than there are on the homeless or the imprisoned, but they can't give consent or enter a contract despite what GOP congressmen freaking out about gay marriage might say about turtles.