I'm pretty stoked, bros. I've been playing Makaimura on Capcom Generation for the PS1 for the past week or so — it's a great port and convinced me to delay building my MAME box for now — and I finally got the 1CC on the first loop. I played the game in MAME a lot about 7 years ago, so don't think I cleared the game from scratch in such a short period of time!

The end game is such a goddam cunt, but I think most of the complaints about the difficulty are overblown. The main issues are 1) Needing to acquire the cross in order to get to the final boss, and of course item drops are random, forcing you to farm for it — not fun in an arcade sidescroller. Countless times I died from running out of time before I could pick one up! Luckily I found a sweet spot to farm for it in stage 4, but it can still take up to 30 seconds to acquire it; 2) Picking up the wrong weapon — like a non-cross weapon after you get the cross, or a torch, at any point in the game — because you accidentally landed on it or it fell on your head. The torch might as well be a "GAME OVER" item because I've accomplished almost nothing after accidentally getting it. But as I got better at the game, I don't think I ever accidentally picked up a dropped weapon I didn't want; 3) Despite what you may think, all the enemies have a pattern, even if they appear random, but I usually felt lucky when I defeated the dragon or Satan. I think I started to find a pattern with the dragon, but Satan still scares me.

I could also complain about the "need" to beat two loops of the game in order to see the "real" ending — some static Engrish screen that to conglaturate great player who prooved justice of culture — but endless looping games was common back then, so I wouldn't read into it too much. I am not a fan of extra loops or new game pluses or whatever; I've already seen what the game has to offer in one loop, so what's my incentive to do it again? Even a new end boss isn't enough to convince me. Contra Hard Corps is an example of a game I've cleared multiple times and still plan to do so because of the multiple characters and routes through the game. Now that's more like a new game plus.

I did make it to the fifth stage on the second loop, but some enemy patterns were different enough to throw me off and end up consuming all of my lives. I admit it's kinda tempting to go for it when I am "so close", but life is short and I have so many more great games to wade through. I really want to get started on the sequel — I last played quite a bit of the Mega Drive port many years ago — but I want to set up a MAME box for it because I don't trust the ports to handle the wide CPS horizontal resolution correctly. I admit the Saturn port of Daimakaimura looks pretty good, but the PlayStation port's visuals look grainy.

That's a pretty serious 1CC. Congrats. I do remember this game being a bit of a whore, but there's quite a bit of memorization if memory serves. Pretty classic though. I recall an interview w/ the creator in Continue ages ago. Always wanted to translate it but never got around to it. One day, perhaps.

Rade wrote:Finally received a reply by posting in a thread at that Gaijin forum:

zinger wrote:I never finished Hagane, despite being super-impressed by it initially (except for stage 1). I've never actually felt like playing it again after that. The biggest flaw for me when I think back about it is the first stage which is pretty terribly designed: just a long stretch of flat ground with boring enemies and an uninspired gunships as I remember it. Atmosphere, stage and boss designs definitely gets a lot better as you go along of course, but the first couple of stages are so important in arcade-style action games. Less inclined to revisit/finish it after reading your impressions now... but I do have some very cool memories from when I played it!

Wow, that seems awfully... nitpicky. I mean, you can literally just backflip through the entire Stage 1-1 in about 5 seconds.

I think the games weaknesses are the autoscrolling sections and the fact that there's only one special move that you need to bother with mastering the timing and then you can quick-kill practically all bosses.

Not as good as Strider 2 or Super Shinobi II, but pretty high up there on the list of Ninja sidescrollers imo.

Thanks, but note it's only the first loop! I wrote up a guide from memory of how to play through the stages in case I plan on picking it up in the future for the real deal, but for now I gotta move on. The only reason I can see to go all the way is for bragging rights; I don't find it much fun, though I do love the game. Maybe after some time away from it I'll be back and want the full action.

Gaijin Punch wrote:I recall an interview w/ the creator in Continue ages ago. Always wanted to translate it but never got around to it. One day, perhaps.

Fujiwara? Do you have the Japanese text around here somewhere?

CIT Seven Force wrote:I think the games weaknesses are the autoscrolling sections

Agreed!

CIT Seven Force wrote:and the fact that there's only one special move that you need to bother with mastering the timing and then you can quick-kill practically all bosses.

But why bother? The bosses are so easy you'll beat them on your first attempt.

CIT Seven Force wrote:Wow, that seems awfully... nitpicky. I mean, you can literally just backflip through the entire Stage 1-1 in about 5 seconds.

Maybe an exaggeration (five seconds sounds like an exaggeration too though?), but I didn't mean that I think it's a game-breaking aspect, and it's still an important criticism for me, not least because when one or more sections of a game are so boring and easy it is impossible to feel properly engaged. When I did consider playing Hagane again, that's one of the things that I remembered from it, which put me off. Another factor for me might be that I'm starting to consider my self pretty much done with that era of gaming (pre-00); having such wonderful memories of The Super Shinobi already, and being completely enthralled by Ninja Gaiden Black (which I am currently revisiting) at the moment doesn't work in favor of Hagane... I still consider it a good game of course, and I do cherish the memories I have of my first impressions! I'll leave the finer points of criticism for you.

Anyway, I've been playing Radiant Silvergun lately, and I'm surprised it's never been discussed on the forum, considering how much hype there has been for it? Except for the fact that chaining enemies is tied to how fast you level up your weapons, I think it's brilliant so far. You can mostly ignore the chaining and level up your weapons during the boss fights anyway, at least early on in the game. Such a sucker for the atmosphere, the complex weapon system, and the huge amount of diversity in terms of bullet patterns, boss attacks and other hazards in this game.

Gaijin Punch wrote:I recall an interview w/ the creator in Continue ages ago. Always wanted to translate it but never got around to it. One day, perhaps.

Fujiwara? Do you have the Japanese text around here somewhere?

Unfortunately I don't. I could look it up easily enough though, and those books are pretty cheap if you're just a bit patient. Oddly enough, I find it the most interesting game book/magazine ever. The photos in it were very cool... retro-friendly before the millenials even got into high school.

Radiant Silvergun

It's a great game, but I never got into it. Not sure why... maybe b/c everyone else did? I didn't learn all the trick and whatnot that seem pretty important to making any real progress in it.

Rade wrote:Finally received a reply by posting in a thread at that Gaijin forum:

zinger wrote:I'm starting to consider my self pretty much done with that era of gaming (pre-00)

zinger wrote:Anyway, I've been playing Radiant Silvergun lately

Thanks for bringing this one up. I was actually playing the Saturn port about 2 or 3 months ago, but failed to post about it. I probably put 100 credits into the game, and never in any run did I make it out of stage 3 (the first stage, for those who don't know). I felt myself making progress and figuring out the scoring system, but maybe I wasn't leveling up enough, so to speak — and to be clear, I was playing arcade mode with default settings, not the silly Saturn mode (those cutscenes are pretty cool though!). I started playing Battle Garegga on Saturn a few days ago, and similar feelings are coming back to me: lots of credits, vague sense of progress, feelings of confusion. I think I just fucking suck at "newer" shooters; Thunder Force III is about the level of complexity I can handle. I'll keep practicing though!

Starting to consider myself done. There are still a handful of games I really would like to try, most of all Taroomaru.

I see what you mean about that vague sense of progress. Garegga, Border Down and Radiant Silvergun are probably the best examples of that; systems that are so convoluted that you have to spend as much time trying to figure them out, as you do on practicing strategies and the actual execution. I used to love Garegga and Border Down for that, and it certainly made them more interesting... but in the long run? Nowadays I see it more as a cheap way for arcade operators to bring more income; I think ultimately, more conventional design choices would have made them better. That's the feeling I have with RSG too, because of how it urges you to go for chaining enemies of a specific color... it just doesn't make sense to me why blowing up a yellow zako, accidentally or not, could have such a profound impact on my chances of progressing through a game... taking any risks at all in order to maintain a "chain" just makes it all feel stupid. Ikaruga is definitely better in that respect.

My strats at the moment are to just chain the parts that are easy and pretty much risk-free, and I just one-lifed Stage 3 (first stage) yesterday, but I fear I'll run into a wall eventually, as you're insinuating GP. Stage 2 is giving me trouble already.

Despite some teeth grinding moments I am enjoying Tiger Road. I am getting close to a clear of the first loop, I just have to keep at it.

break/

I picked up an STV motherboard and Soukyugurentai recently and have been jamming on that as well. Such a bad ass game. I'm gonna chime in some more about some STG stuff later after dinner.

Okay, so I'm back from dinner. I have been playing a lot of STGs recently and as a result, I have also been thinking about why I like and dislike certain ones. I have also been thinking about how I would answer a question that destroys internet forums and causes people to disown their kids.

"Do you play for score, or survival?"

It may seem like a simple question for most but for me, it depends on a number of factors. Here are some of the questions I ask with some examples.

"Is the scoring system stupid?"

The first example is Sengoku Blade from Psikyo. This is my favorite STG from what is probably my favorite developer. For the unaware, in Sengoku Blade killing certain enemies or touching certain places on the ground causes coins to pop out. The coins spin in the air and the point value changes depending on where the coin is facing when you pick it up. The answer to the question above is, "Yes, the scoring system is stupid." It is tedious, boring, and you have to rank control in order to maximize the number of coins you can pick up. That is something I forgot to tell you. I don't rank control. I crank it up and hit it head on. So now that I have answered that question, the next one is:

"How much of the experience will be lost by ignoring the scoring system?"

To better illustrate this one, we are going to look at three examples.

Sengoku Blade: Ignoring the goofy coin scoring crap does not hamper the experience for me in any way. In fact, ignoring the coins and not rank controlling results in a much more exciting game. If you haven't experienced a Psikyo game at high ranks, you are missing out. Also, Sengoku Blade is a beautiful, interesting game that you need to check out if you haven't.

Espgaluda: Now things are getting a little stickier. I could ignore the gem / kakusei mechanics but I feel like I am kind of missing out. The reason those enemies are spitting out all of those bullets, the majority of which are of no threat to me, in kakusei is so I can cancel them. Now, I could use kakusei to help me survive since the bullets are slower in that mode but it still feels kind of half-assed. I wouldn't say the game experience is ruined by ignoring the scoring, I would say it is severely diminished.

Ikaruga:If you aren't playing the chain scoring, you aren't playing the game. The slow enemies, slow projectiles, combined with the switch colors to invincible mechanic means that if I ignore the chaining and play the game with the intention of just killing the bad guys, I will be snoring in about a minute. If I play the game and chain the enemies, however, It will be a full two minutes before my eyes close and the sandman visits. FUCK Ikaruga.

Those aren't all of the points I use to evaluate a game and its scoring. I also want to know things like how much randomness or leeching is involved, both of which are deal breakers for me. There is no way I am going to master a game and hope that the computer's randomness works in my favor so I can get a high score. As for leeching, nah.

There are some other things I check depending on the game but this post is too long already. It's not my fault though, it's the booze.

So what about you? What kind of things do you evaluate or consider when you play STGs?

So I hooked up the old Xbox, I mean Xbox 1, uhm...I mean Xbox Classic.

Panzer Dragoon Orta — Damn this game is even better now than it was 15 years ago. Gameplay, presentation, music, all top notch and wrapped together in a glorious package. Still looks fantastic to boot!

Castlevania: Curse of Darkness — Basically playing this to have completely every Castlevania. Compared to Lament of Innocence this is like taking one step forward and two steps back, improving certain areas, while not addressing some major flaws of previous game and exacerbating other shortcomings. Like...why does Hector walk sooooo daaaaaamn slooooow!!!??

Shikigami No Shiro II — I forgot how excellent this game is. Very polished, and super addictive game system. It's what I play to reward myself for progress in Curse of Darkness.

I had rancor send me an original J-Xbox (in pretty damn good shape too) so I could play my original Xbox games

Orta: of course is in there. That shit was top notch... wonder if it'll ever be HD-ified. JSRF: If you've not played this, you're missing out. Gun Valkyrie: Never beat this... maybe I'll give it a shot.

I've not even hooked the damn thing up but now that I've moved and am settled in, perhaps I'll do that this winter instead of just dick around on my Wii.

Shiki II -- I played this on the DC and while I got to the last boss a lot, I never got the 1CC. What a loser.

Rade wrote:Finally received a reply by posting in a thread at that Gaijin forum:

Panzer Dragoon Orta is a pretty polished game all-round. It's been a decade since I played it but I do remember the graphics (technically and especially artistically) particularly impressed me.

CIT Seven Force wrote:I think it's bad shielding in the crappy component cable I'm using. Do you know if the Xbox had an official component cable?

I have a 3rd party component cable for my modified Xbox (for XBMC and emulation) and it has more interference than my S-Video one so I had to resort to using the latter until (and to answer your question), I get the official Component cable.

Are you guys using the official Xbox High Definition AV Pack®? It's the only thing I've been using on my Xbox for component video, and the quality is terrific. They're a bit hard to find and pricey these days; I see them going for around $50 on eBay. At least they're not as ridiculously expensive as official GameCube component cables.

schadenfreude wrote:Are you guys using the official Xbox High Definition AV Pack®? It's the only thing I've been using on my Xbox for component video, and the quality is terrific. They're a bit hard to find and pricey these days; I see them going for around $50 on eBay. At least they're not as ridiculously expensive as official GameCube component cables.

Yeah, that's it. I hope I saved mine, but not sure if I did. Perhaps this thread will inspire me to have a rummage. I tossed my Xbox before leaving Japan as the Executor chip wouldn't allow it to boot, and figured considering the size and all that, would be easier to just get a new one rather than open the box back up. I was also pressed for time, obviously.

Rade wrote:Finally received a reply by posting in a thread at that Gaijin forum:

I approve of that offloading technique: many times before moving I have sold off some systems, then re-acquired them at a later date. I actually saved money by doing this because I sold the systems for cash on Craigslist, then re-bought them later for less, versus having to pay to ship them. Naturally I only do this with popular and common systems like the PS2.

We only post in this thread to inspire you. I think Gunvalkyrie is calling you. I really enjoyed playing through that one a few years ago, though the constant flicking and clicking of both analog sticks simultaneously must have advanced my inevitable future onset of carpal tunnel syndrome.

Orta is so beautiful. I never put much time into getting good at it, and essentially only treated it as an action-packed roller coaster. I suspected it didn't have enough depth for it to pay off and it's pretty damn long... but I still wonder if a more dedicated approach would have made it even more enjoyable? Did you guys 1CC it, or just blast your way through like I did?

I also played through Gun Valkyrie a couple of years ago, that's a gem for sure. There are some interesting stories behind the devlopment too IIRC, like it being planned for the DC originally, and that Smilebit were experimenting with some lightgun/controller combo setup?

How do you guys feel about Metal Wolf Chaos by the way? And the Otogi games? I did put some effort into them, but they never really clicked with me. Also curious to hear if any of you ever had the chance to play Tekki/Steel Battalion? The commercials are so good, lol:

I will go through Orta... I think at one point I wanted to "get good" at it and go for a 1CC but never really got around to it. I played Zwei like a mofo... and it's not all that difficult either so cleared it many times. Fun stuff, even though it's a bit ugly these days.

As for Gun Valkyrie, I never bet the last guy. Maybe that will be my goal this winter: go through JSRF, Orta, and Gun Valkyrie. Honestly I can play JSRF for ages, even though some of the stages trudge on if you fuck up. I'd love to be able to fly through it in record time though. Dat soundtrack... man I miss those days... when I was excited about new games.

I never tried any of the others. Would have loved to have done Tekki or Metal Wolf Choas, but just never did.

Rade wrote:Finally received a reply by posting in a thread at that Gaijin forum:

Gaijin Punch wrote:I played Zwei like a mofo... and it's not all that difficult either so cleared it many times.

Ouch...I could never clear it or its predecessor. I believe I could get to the end of both games on a credit, but the final boss always did me in. I eventually stopped trying because the games are too slow for me, with too many sections where seconds go by with nothing happening. I remember Orta feeling similarly slow and gave up after a few tries. I'm not a big fan of being on rails; it makes me feel claustrophobic. Panzer Dragoon RPG I found solid (though not mesmerizing), and my favorite part about it is that it's probably the shortest JRPG I've ever played. I wish more JRPGs would follow this convention.

zinger wrote:How do you guys feel about Metal Wolf Chaos by the way? And the Otogi games? I did put some effort into them, but they never really clicked with me. Also curious to hear if any of you ever had the chance to play Tekki/Steel Battalion?

For a long time I was thinking about making a thread about games that seem cool but I couldn't get into, and I was planning on mentioning all of these. Oh, and Breakdown too, which has some great ideas but some frustrating combat and terrible, repetitive environments. But hey, it's neat how the Xbox got so many interesting exclusive titles from Japanese developers.

Metal Wolf Chaos: I played I think two stages of it. It felt really repetitive to me and couldn't pull me away from more interesting games I was playing at the time. I appreciated the heavy-handed humor, though none of it is laugh-out-loud funny. I don't have much experience with "mecha" games, and I'm thinking of giving From Software's Armored Core series a try before returning to MWC. Maybe then I'll appreciate it more?

Otogi: I enjoyed the few levels I played — and it features some of the best art and graphics you'll see from that console generation — but I eventually hit a wall I couldn't overcome and wasn't willing to grind or whatever in the earlier levels to overcome it. Or maybe that's not necessary? That's the impression I got from reading about the game online.

Tekki/Steel Battalion: Now this one is interesting. I bought the game and controller on eBay a few years ago and set everything up in my small San Francisco apartment bedroom. I had a huge and heavy Sony 32" HDTV CRT at the time, and man did PS2/Xbox/GameCube games look bangin' on it. The first problem to overcome is where to put the goddamn controller. Unlike an arcade stick, it's too huge to balance on your lap. I was thinking of putting it on the coffee table and sitting on the floor (though this makes pressing the foot pedals a pain), but what I ended up doing was taking a shelf off of my bookcase, putting that on my lap while sitting on a chair, and placing the controller on top of it. Not bad.

It takes some time to get used to the controller, but you'll only regularly use a handful of buttons on it; many of them are used for the boot-up sequence you have to perform at the beginning of every mission, which is novel at first but becomes tedious after the Nth time. Then there is the need to travel to the field of battle from your starting location, which can take a while because some of the mechs have a relatively slow top speed. You can mitigate this tedium a bit by swerving quickly at top speed, which will rotate the screen as your mech topples to the ground, complete with screeching metal and all. I found combat relatively simple when facing one enemy but fairly tricky when outnumbered (reminds me of Breakdown!). The main thing that put me off is the blandness of it all: every level looks and feels grainy and rainy and muddy, with an overuse of brown and gray and black hues on the environment and enemies. It's almost depressing. Maybe that's the intention, as a fitting allegory of war? I found I had to force myself to play it because I dreaded going back into that environment. And the game is difficult enough as it is, but death erasing your save pushes it over the top. It's really a non-issue because all you have to do to evade death is press a button on the controller that ejects you from the mech before it explodes, but every time you lose a mech in combat, you lose money, and once you can't afford a new mech, your angry black man drill sergeant chews you out and ends your game — and it's back to the beginning for you. I don't mind hardcore games, but there have to be new and pretty experiences to reward me for all the work I'll be putting into the game. Tekki rewards you with slow startup sequences, trudging movement, and environments made of dull, muddy colors — and by default there's no music, but you can buy cassette tapes (!) in the game that will play uninspiring and low-fidelity music in the cockpit while you battle.

I sold it off a while ago, but despite all the ranting above, I'm willing to give it another try someday. It's such a unique experience that I really want to be proven wrong, and those controllers won't last forever.

Thanks for sharing your impressions. I have similar experiences with Otogi and Metal Wolf Chaos. I guess as soon as action games get too clunky/bulky, it's more difficult for me to get into them -- I always prefer the super-fast and stylish ones. I do enjoy the aspect of mecha games when they manage to give me the sense of being in the middle of a battlefiend in some huge operation, which I think is what the first Valken really managed to achieve, but I still tend to lose interest in those much faster.

Anyway, I beat Ninja Gaiden Black a couple of weeks ago. I actually managed to get to the very end when I first played it years ago, but I only had very superficial knowledge of the move-set, and relied quite heavily on potions and other items from the shop. I felt cheap, so I decided to take a loooong break from it. Coming back now, which much more experience from similar titles (NG was the first game in the genre I ever played), I pretty much breezed through the game and rarely used the shop except for when upgrading my weapons. I briefly played Hard mode for a bit after unlocking it, and damn, I wish the end-game was more like this, super-intense with tons and tons of aggressive ninjas. Honestly, the ghost fish and various demons you face towards the end weren't really that interesting to me, and especially not some of the bosses -- I pretty much always prefer fighting groups of humanoid enemies.

Currently playing Hard Corps: Uprising (Arcade mode). Pretty damn solid game. Overall the quality of the graphics is inconsistent (I hate how the bosses look, like plastic toy action figures), and I do miss the gritty/gory theme from Spirits / the original Hard Corps... but the action is great, and the most fun I've had with an arcade style action game in a long time.

zinger wrote:Currently playing Hard Corps: Uprising (Arcade mode). Pretty damn solid game. Overall the quality of the graphics is inconsistent (I hate how the bosses look, like plastic toy action figures), and I do miss the gritty/gory theme from Spirits / the original Hard Corps... but the action is great, and the most fun I've had with an arcade style action game in a long time.

It's a fantastic title. Only thing I would criticize about it is that it's a tad too long (at well over an hour for a playthrough) to feel truly arcade and that it's much more fun with all the upgrades unlocked, but also becomes too easy then.

Make you sure you get Sayuri (one of the DLC characters) as the game becomes Strider on steroids with her — my favorite way to play the game.

Now that Rockman 9 and 10 have been released on disc (formerly digital only games), Hard Corps: Uprising is the next I would like a physical copy of. Maybe as a compilation with other digital-only Konami games (Akumajou Dracula: Rebirth/Harmony of Despair, Gradius Rebirth etc)?