Ok This should probably go under tailgater but
Some people tell me making moonshine is still illegal,is this true??I dont intend to make any but just got intrested in the history of it.

02-22-2005, 08:11 AM

ScottS

Yep, distilling alcohol for consumption is very illegal. Merely possessing a still above 1 cubic foot in capacity is a felony with a max penalty of 5 yrs and $5k. If you are going to do it, make a still rather than buying one, don't talk about it, and ABSOLUTELY don't sell it.

See www.homedistiller.org for information. They are based in New Zealand, the only first-world country where home distilling is legal.

02-22-2005, 08:22 AM

ks.bee.kpr

Like I said I dont intend to do it. but why is mead making and beer ok. Is it because its dangerous?

02-22-2005, 12:23 PM

ScottS

Because excise taxes are higher on liquor than on beer and wine. It's all about the tax dollars.

02-22-2005, 12:35 PM

BULLSEYE BILL

There also used to be a real problem with people getting messed up from bad hooch. Plumbing was soldered with lead, old radiators were being used, lack of knowledge and care in the process lead to blindness and worse. Lots of people died.

There should be a solution for small home distilling, but as Scott said, it all boils down to (pun intended) tax money.

02-22-2005, 02:48 PM

Ben Brewcat

Don't mess with what The Man sees as HIS income by birthright, he'll stomp on you. It amazes me how many folks on some of the other groups openly discuss that they distill. Granted, you'd think Big Brother would have bigger fish to fry. Then again we recently spent a few million tax dollars investigating an adulterer whose behavior didn't cut into their bottom line either. Caveat distillor.

Anyway there's a good book "The lore of stillbuilding" available through your LHBS, I forget the author. I'm sure a search would yield lots of good sources.

02-23-2005, 12:12 AM

hobbyfarm

In addition to the dissolved lead problem, the more serious issue is the generation of methyl alcohol versus ethyl alcohol. Ethyl alcohol is the intoxicant in beer, wine, mead, and commercially distilled beverages. Methyl alcohol is highly poisonous, causing blindness and death. The evaporation of methyl alcohol occurs at higher temperatures than ethyl alcohol. If the distillation process is not carefully controlled, methyl alcohol can be produced. So BATFE claims that consumer safety is the real issue. But those of us that know, know it's really about DOLLAR$.

There is an alternate, illegal, method of distillation referred to as "Freezer Brandy". Place a bottle of wine or mead in the freezer. When the contents have turned to slush, strain the contents, discarding the icy slush. The remaining liquid is significantly higher in alcohol. The process can be repeated for additional refinement. The process works because the freezing temperature of alcohol is lower than that of water, even sugar saturated water.

NOTE: The above is for historical reference only.

Kevin

02-23-2005, 05:58 AM

ScottS

The methanol issue seems to be a red herring though.

Legally, ethyl alcohol that has had methanol added to make it unsafe for human consumption is exempt from liquor taxes. It is made and used for industrial purposes. Unscrupulous moonshiners would buy this cheap adulterated alcohol and dilute their homemade stuff with it, creating a toxic beverage. People got sick and died from it.

But if you are making mead, wine, etc from fruit or honey, very little methanol is created in the fermentation. I did some research awhile ago to see how much methanol is produced in a 5 gallon batch of homebrew, and the total amount is something like 1/50th of the amount needed to even produce symptoms, much less death. So even when distilling, you've got to be working with 250 gallons of booze before there is enough methanol in total to even cause a problem. It's really only a danger when introduced intentionally or when distilling on a large scale.

I believe chemistbert mentioned awhile back that chemically it is difficult to make methanol with a yeast fermentation, and I've been meaning to do some research to find out the details. I don't know enough about fermentation chemistry to give any details off the top of my head.

02-23-2005, 05:34 PM

nursebee

It would still be fun to try to distill. Fun to play with the gadgets. Fun to improve the taste.

But I have a nursing license, a mortgage, a wife. I also do not want to do time. And I suspect that as a homebrewer that buys large bags of malt, a small scale farmer with poultry and pigs that buys grains, and as a beekeeper that buy LARGE quantity of sugar I would receive more than my share of inspection by BATF.

02-24-2005, 10:07 AM

chemistbert

Yes I did say that in fact. This is mainly due to the very tiny volume of mash that is made by someone running for personal consumption. The big boys do things differently than sugar, water, yeast, distill that you would at home. That is why comercial vodka (read moonshine) is actually higher in MeOH than that made at home. But even at "high" concentrations you would die from ethanol toxicity before you would go blind.
Remember that you can not distill the MeOH out of denatured alcohol. It forms a bond that can not be broken using regular plate distillation.