I'm not on the Daisuke train either. yeah, he's great, but he just doesnt draw me in.

I guess no great skater is ever going to win everyone over. We all look for and find different things. It's almost sacrilege to say it on this board, but I found Michelle Kwan rather boring, especially in the second half of her career.

NHK was a good start for the men, but very disappointing from the ladies. I do like Carolina's programs though, and hope she'll be able to get the lutz and flip back soon. Mao? I just don't know......

yes trying to find out which lady will stay on her feet does add a whole lot of "excitement" *yawn* thank God for the three other disiplines.

We have different feelings about it. I prefer to watch the Ladies over Dance simply because I almost always know who will win the Dance. Sometimes bungee chords are needed .....beyond a yawn.... for the politics of Dance to get the podium the way they want it.
I prefer a few splats over that anyday.

First of all I would like to thank so many posters for the 'welcome back'. It made my day.

As to Hanyu, one should rewatch his skate from IN. The young man shown incredible talents at synchonizing all the elements with effortless flow. The arms, legs, the whole body, the speeds of which are appropriate.
Forget the tricks, although they are also very good. His Blade to Ice is perfect.

I suspect we will be talking about Amodio and Hanyu by 2013 Sochi, anyone?

Takahashi skated very well, but I am underwhelmed with his program choices. I will still enjoy watching him fly over the ice and enchant the ladies. But he now has 3 Latin dances in a row (SP last season, SP and LP this season), that is unoriginal and also rather dumb in my opinion. Yes, he makes this style work - but I think that people are bound to be disappointed when a skater follows up a brilliant program (the last season's Tango SP) with two programs that have a similar style but simply cannot attain the same status. It's like Lambiel's Tango program after Lambiel's Tango SP (Carne Cruda) and his Flamenco LP.

Meh, I don't agree with comparing Takahashi's LP this year to Lambiel's Otono Porteno. Lambie's Tango was IMO another choreographic masterpiece, albeit probably not having the same immediate effect on people as his Flamenco. And he had very authentic movements that were true to the dance and choreography. I think in retrospect I actually like the tango more than the flamenco because the choreography was more intricate and there are more things for me to "discover". I particularly love the performances from shows in Japan and Korea. Takahashi's LP OTOH, IMO just looks recycled and makes me feel like I've seen it before. The guy dances well, no doubt, but I think his expression is somewhat limited.

I am not comparing the programs quality wise, I thought Lambiel's Tango to be very creative and interesting - but I still think that the skaters don't do themselves a favour when they continue to choose the same style over and over again, especially when they are actually known for their artistic merit and their versatility. Joubert always chooses similar music, it's what he does. Same goes for some quieter skaters who tend to stay with one specific style of music, or at least style of skating, e.g. Chan or Plushenko. But Lambiel and Takahashi are known for their ability to rock the different styles, from Hip-Hop Swan Lake to whimsical to jazzy to purely classical - and for Takahashi to go with the Latin theme all the way now, it seems like such a soft choice.

At the end of the day I think that vesatility is very important - that's why I think that Takahashi and Abbott are equally great skaters, even if one of them is extrovert and selling his skating as if his life depends on it - and the other a little more introvert. I would fall asleep if we had 20 Abbotts skate the freeskate at Worlds, just like I would be annoyed and completely exhausted by 20 Takahashis. Still no excuse for the atrocity of Amodio's long program though. My desire for diversity has its limits.

1. I don't know why I responded to Amodio's long program that way I did. Mostly, I don't drink the milkshake on programs that are designed to showcase charisma/attitude more than actual skating skills, but I really loved watching Amodio. Wierd.

2. Interesting to see Dai and Charlie grouped together like this (accidentally, but still). Dai skates as an expression of his artistry, in my mind. Because that artistry is linked with a dynamite sense of entertainment and dynamic athleticism, it's exceedingly pleasurable for me. He also displays an incredible amount of sex appeal. I see enough differences between his SP and his Tango from last season (that one was more frenetic, this languid - especially that beginning) to make both appeal to me, though I think "Tango" made "La Strada" better and vice-versa. Together they made Takahashi's 2009/10 season quite memorable.

Charlie - he skates as an expression of his athleticism. I don't mean to diminish him in any way - the fact is that the level of athletic ability he displays is jawdropping. The hands-free lift from last season, of course, the twizzles etc. But I often see him struggling a little bit with the artistic side of things. It's particularly noteworthy in the step sequences (I'm think the last step sequence of the FD at the Olympics - you can read the concentration on his and Meryl's face as their driving those edges into the ice) - though full disclosure time, I've seen that FD 30-40 times now.

I have to admit a great deal of disappointment with janetfan's dismissal of ice dance. Right now, the field in ice dance (at NHK) displayed a range of artistic ability and athleticism, something I think the ladies' really lack. If you watch for the beauty of the sport, it's where its at right now. Additionally, complaining about politics seems unfair - I don't think you can argue this podium was the consequence of politics any more than you can argue that the ladies' podium was. But frankly, all I have of the domination of the ladies in terms of discussion is a gendered reading of the whole thing, which is even more disappointing.

1. I have to admit a great deal of disappointment with janetfan's dismissal of ice dance. Right now, the field in ice dance (at NHK) displayed a range of artistic ability and athleticism, something I think the ladies' really lack. If you watch for the beauty of the sport, it's where its at right now. Additionally, complaining about politics seems unfair - I don't think you can argue this podium was the consequence of politics any more than you can argue that the ladies' podium was. But frankly, all I have of the domination of the ladies in terms of discussion is a gendered reading of the whole thing, which is even more disappointing.

To make it perfectly clear - we almost always know the winners of a Dance "competition" before they take to the ice and skate. That makes it feel more like an exhibition to me.

You have admitted to me that the '09 Worlds and Vancouver Dance podiums were wrong and heavily influenced by politics.
It is the tradition of the the discipline and hope someday they get past the "wait your turn" aspect of judging it.

Your other point feels true - I think Ice Dancing can be beautiful to watch at times. I did not watch any of the Dance from NHK basically because my IN was not renewed and didn't see the point to watching since the winners were a foregone conclusion.

I watch NFL footbal and soccer from the Euro leagues on the weekend. I would not watch a game if I already knew who won - just too many other things going on. Also consider NHK has a huge time-zone factor. So I watched about 2/3's of the Ladies and half the Men from a Russian feed. I also passed on the Pairs. Maybe at the next event I will check out the Dance or Pairs but will definitely watch the ladoes and the Men.

I agree that it is about more than winning. But there is only so much some of us can take in.
I suspect Dance fans may have skipped the singles skating at NHK if they were busy and had other things going on.

My initial point compared the ladies to the men, but it's worth mentioning that the ladies competition got more posts than the other three combined 356 vs 352, at this writing).

You have admitted to me that the '09 Worlds and Vancouver Dance podiums were wrong and heavily influenced by politics.

Think we should ask Blades of Passion which Vancouver podium was a better reflection of the skating, men or dance?

Originally Posted by janetfan

To make it perfectly clear - we almost always know the winners of a Dance "competition" before they take to the ice and skate. That makes it feel more like an exhibition to me.

To me, Davis and White were the winners because their abilities simply outclassed this field - everyone knew they would win because they're just that much better. To me, a competition that was a "wait your turn" result would give us a podium that didn't have a just up from juniors team beating one that's been on the senior circuit.

My initial point compared the ladies to the men, but it's worth mentioning that the ladies competition got more posts than the other three combined 356 vs 352, at this writing).

Think we should ask Blades of Passion which Vancouver podium was a better reflection of the skating, men or dance?

To me, Davis and White were the winners because their abilities simply outclassed this field - everyone knew they would win because they're just that much better. To me, a competition that was a "wait your turn" result would give us a podium that didn't have a just up from juniors team beating one that's been on the senior circuit.

Your initial post was interesting and although I didn't count up the posts the results are not surprising given the popularity of Ladies figure skating.

Your last point is interesting and nice to see Dance finaly coming around and rewarding the team that skates the best. Too bad it took three decades for that to happen.

The Ladies had a skater just up from juniors medal and we may see that this week at SC.
Too much was going on for me last weekend - I missed the gymnastics and most of the baseball.
It gets down to choices and what we like. Grand Prix Dance events are just not of enough interest for me to watch on my computer.

I watch them at Natls and Worlds/Olympics and really like it when I watch on TV.