The Controllers . . . If We Let Them

It wasn’t because of speed or sex appeal – though those things certainly helped. It was because cars were freedom incarnate. As a teenager, you counted the days to your sixteenth birthday because on that day, you were let out. Free to drive anywhere your wheels could take you. No longer controlled or supervised or monitored. On your own and as you please.

This freedom is under attack– has been for a long time, including via skirmishes that have made the process of acquiring a driver’s license torturous andendless, insofar as teens are concerned. They are effectively debarred from driving in any meaningful sense until they are practically no longer teens, via prohibitions levied against their driving with friends who are also teens or at night, without the supervision of an adult and via brutal “zero tolerance” polices, which criminalize the tracest amounts of alcohol or “drugs” (the arbitrarily illegal ones) in their systems.

Which delays their becoming adults and also stifles their desire to become adults. Which is probably why the current generation of teens shows the least interest in cars and driving of any generation since the dawn of the automobile age more than 100 years ago.

But now the real battle is about to commence.

The one that will determine whether adults are to be debarred from driving in any meaningful sense – via the force-feeding of automated (as distinct from “autonomous”) cars.

Which will be controlled – just not by you. Hence the farthest thing conceivable from “autonomous.” Black is white. Freedom is slavery. You are a customer of the IRS.

But who will control these automated cars?

Wel, for openers, the cops – i.e., armed government workers. Which is to say, the government. And the bureaucrats, who will use the cops to enforce their every edict. No more “getting away with” . . . anything. Everything will become a closely-monitored, tightly regulated, by-your-leave privilege, revocable at their whim.

A Reuters news story details a recent meeting of “stakeholders” – which includes everyone except, of course us – hashing out our automated car future. Apparently, we have no stake in the automated car future. As always, we are not even consulted; the decisions are made on our behalf, in secret conclave. Not unlike (exactly like) the conspiracy which led to the force-feeding of the federal Constitution – which empowered a small elite to control everyone else, without their consent.

Well, here we go again.

A 39-page summary issued from this closed-door meeting, which was held back in March – couched in the now-usual boilerplate of “safety” and “security” – included “concerns” expressed by “public safety officials” (i.e., armed government workers and government workers generally) about the necessity (as they regard it) to “… interact with or even control” automated vehicles “in the event of an emergency.”

Italics added.

You can perhaps visualize such “emergencies.”

If not, visualize the odious “lock downs” (a very deliberate – and accurate – choice of words; words formerly applied to prisons but now that the country is itself a prison . . .) which have become common whenever the government decides there is an . . . “emergency.”

Well, what exactly constitutes an “emergency”?

Whatever the government says it is. Anything the government says it is. There is no law defining “emergency,” which means the government can simply declare one, whenever it likes. Hut! Hut! Hut! Shelter in place!

And let’s be precise about another meaning.

There is no such thing in real life as “the government.” It is a rhetorical device at its most benign; a sleight-of-hand at its worst – used to obscure the fact that it’s not some all-wise/all-knowing entity but just other people, the sole difference between them and us being they have arrogated to themselves power over us.

How they got this power – and what gives them the moral right to possess it and exercise it against us – are two questions that ought to be asked (and answered) more often.

Anyhow, the government declares an “emergency” – and then a “lock down.”

Technically, these “lock downs” aren’t The Law . . . yet.

You could get in your car – your not-automated car – and leave the area.

But if your car is automated . . .and if the government controls it . . . then you are locked down. And not just overt lock downs. There are also the subtler ones – where you go and when and how.

No longer under your control.

Which is key to understanding the nudging behind this loathsome automated car rigmarole. The pretense is that it’s all about saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaafety – but this as fatuous as Obamacare being about “affordable” medical care.

Fatuous because the assertion rests upon the imbecility of technological infallibility. Computerized, electronic infallibility. Imagine a cell phone big enough to throw a saddle over and let it take you for a ride at 70 MPH – hoping the OS doesn’t lock up in the middle of a curve.

Or the sensors don’t see the curve because it suddenly got foggy.

It might work at first – and maybe even for awhile. But unless these devices are very regularly thrown away and replaced with new ones, they will degrade and develop hiccups – because everything does. Hiccups can be trouble at 70 MPH when there’s no steering wheel or brake pedal and you have become just a meatsack sitting behind where the wheel used to be.

And hiccups side, the automated future means that instead of being able to just jump in your car and go where you please, when you please and how you please – you’ll be carted around as they please, when they please and how they please.

If they please.

If we let them.

…

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142 COMMENTS

My perspective is that you can’t be an individualist and a racist at the same time. You can’t demand to be treated as an individual, and then go off painting entire groups of people based on the color of their skin. Racism, furthermore, is the last refuge of the lazy mind, and even obscures the true difference between the “free” (ish) west and failed/failing tribal cultures the world over. See, until LBJ’s not-so-Great Society came along, black Americans were actually on pace to catch or overtake white Americans in several important predictors of success, such as family stability… because they were being brought into, absorbing, and in the process being elevated by, the existing American culture and values. Average intelligence in Kenya (a favored statistic of racists) are increasing much more quickly than average intelligence in the “white” part of the world, as they start gaining access to better food, sanitation, and medicine. It really is all about culture.

See, the one common thread between said failed/failing tribal cultures is that they all operate on some kind of pseudo-communism which fails to understand that wealth must be created before it can be shared. Many seem to believe that if your friends or family come begging for free stuff, then saying no makes you a selfish jerk – so why would you even bother trying to build a business when you know said friends and family are just going to bleed you dry the instant word gets out you have a good thing going? Some even believe that since your highest duty is to family, stealing on behalf of your family is not only acceptable but honorable, which hobbles government and humanitarian operations as well. They tend to treat women as property and consider sex to be nothing sacred. Indifference toward the sick is occasionally seen as well, crippling medical development and making it harder for knowledge to pass between generations.

Judeo-Christian culture is the antidote to that. Its respect for private property and for honest work encourages people to make rather than take. Its doctrine of compassion for the weak and sick ensured that medial sciences would be pursued. Its prohibitions against adultery, fornication, and deviant sex stalls the spread of disease (as well as the emotional pain that comes from being run around on) while providing a stable, loving environment for children to grow up in.

Even in non-Judeo-Christian cultures (such as eastern Asia and the various pre-Judeo-Christian cultures in north Africa & the middle east), you will usually find that their degree of success tends to correlate with how many of the aforementioned tenets of Judeo-Christian culture (respect for property, work ethic, compassion, chastity, fidelity) they found their way into.

See, that’s the thing… socialism and communism aren’t just bad ideas in the abstract, they strike at the very heart of what has elevated us above the tribal cultures. To fall back on racism and write huge masses of people off as stupid simply because they aren’t white is plain-old lazy, and evil too. (Before you say “but South Africa though”, please do remember that the collectivist puppet-masters are absolutely not above paying rabble-rousers to go into places already aren’t doing well, and incite revolt with inflammatory rhetoric). The same with anti-Semitism which I sadly see a lot of in this comments section specifically. The world is imperfect and so are we; there are and always will be bad people of every tribe and nation, and good people too. Plenty of white people with “delusions of grandeur”, and plenty of Jews who are perfectly normal people.

Also, accusing the Jews of trying to rule the world while saying that white people should… rule the world. Hypocrisy much?

The current obsession with race, on the left and the right, is entirely out of touch with reality and inimical to a free and functioning society. The fanatical left pushes the delusional idea that racism is as bad as ever and the most important “problem” that “we” must solve. The reactionary right, believing this a political attack on “Judeo-Christian” culture, doubles down and begins to view separation as the only solution.

The fanatical left needs a “fluid” definition of racism in order to maintain the fiction that racism is a significant problem in America. So, what is racism, and why should we care about it? If racism is just the demonstrated preference of associating with one’s kind, then it is near universal and entirely benign. If racism is the willingness to use, or delegate the use of, violence, for the purpose of damaging a particular group of people, then it is both rare and virulent. The first expression of “racism” is entirely consistent with libertarianism, the second is not. The fanatical left, which seeks to undermine the culture you value so highly, pretends that the first is dangerous and must be stamped out. The reactionary right, able to grasp that this is an attack on the culture they value, but unable to respond intelligently, adopts an overt and ugly expression of racism that merely convinces more people that the concerns of the fanatical left are valid.

Any libertarian discussion of “racism” needs to define the term and distinguish between the benign or virulent kind. Racists, of the virulent type, are rare and powerless in America today. The threat they pose to liberty is not that they are likely to gain political power and create an “ethno-state”, but that they will push more people toward the views of the fanatical left, which does seek to undermine the values you credit for human flourishing. The anti-racist left is far more dangerous and powerful than the few truly virulent racists that exist in America today. Ironically, the policies of the fanatical left have, and will continue to, produce far more harm to minorities than the culture they despise.

Chuck, you’re all over the place here. I think that you’ve bought into a lot of the propaganda that is preached these days, without really thinking about it.

First off, there is really no such thing as “racism”. Except perhaps for a smattering of morons who are too insignificant to need be discussed, no one is so stupid as to believe that “the color of a person’s skin” accounts for anything- positive or negative.

CULTURE and inherited values/lifestyle/morals, on the other hand, DO often account for a lot- and some people are just more easily identified as belonging to a particular culture by a physical trait, such as the color of their skin, or another characteristic. e.g. if you see a person with red hair and very pale skin, your probably have a good idea of what part of the world they originated from, and what they like to eat, and what their religion might be, and even what they might like to drink, and in what quantities- and this is because we have had experience over time observing the tendencies of such people, and have observed certain behaviors that are common to the majority of them whom we’ve observed.

Stereotypes exist because they are things which have been universally observed, over and over again, to the point where when one is mentioned, you know exactly to whom it applies. And of course, their are always indivdual exceptions- for instance, I’m a Dago, and yet I am not a Catholic, nor in the Mafia. Yet when I hear someone mention those stereotypes, I don’t get “offended”, because I know damn well that such is indeed a valid observation made of many Italians. I don’t get made at the observer for making a realistic observation; if I have a complaint, it is with those of my own ethnicity who perpetuate the negative behaviors.

Ditto with niggers. If you make the observation that there is no such thing as a low-crime black neighborhood, that is just a fact. How is speaking the truth “racism”?

And even in cases of pure racism- so what?

It is just freedom of association. If people choose not to do business with me, or not to rent their house to me; or not to invite me to their BBQ- whether it’s because they think I’m a jerk; or don’t like my political, philosophical or religious views; or because I wear coke-bottle glasses; or just because they don’t like Eye-talians- so what? It’s their choice- and they need not justify their choices to anyone but themselves. It’s not my business nor anyone else’s. I don’t care, and neither should you- unless and until they seek to relieve me of my property or do violence to me when I have not threatened/perpetrated violence against them.

I think I speak for most here when I say that we don’t believe white people should rule the world, because we do not believe in rulers, period! No one should rule the world. The world should not be ruled. Government is the problem- and it makes slaves of ALL people.

And I know that I speak for all here when I say that we firmly believe in the absolute property rights of ALL people, and their right to live their lives as they see fit- as long as they do not perpetrate violence against others (except in self-defense) nor deprive them of their property.

Quite the contrary, it is those who are always crying “racism” who are the ones who seek to destroy personal and property rights, by dictating whom we can associate with or shun, and for what reasons; and how we must dispose of our property- i.e. that we can not choose to whom we would rent or sell real estate for certain reasons, etc. THAT is a true evil- but that is tolerated gleefully today, while those who oppose it are condemned for merely seeking to uphold their most basic rights and freedoms, and those of their fellow men.

We were told that “Lincoln freed the slaves”- but in reality, we are ALL now slaves.

And as for the Jews: Well, if all the wars the US has fought for at least the last decade on their behalf; their genocide of the Mid-East; their own words; their implementation of various social and economic schemes, like communism, and “diversity” [While exempting their own nation from it], their control of banking for millennia; control of the media, etc. does not convince you of their overall goals…then I guess that nothing that I can say will convince you. Pretty much everything that is destroying the Western world, can be traced back to the Jews- from Karl Marx to Edward Bernays; from the Warburgs to Henry Kissenger…. -A statistically insignificant population, yet they have the superpowers of the world doing their bidding, and handing them “the wealth of the goyim”. [And I am saying this as a Christian who observes the Saturday Sabbath and who keeps kosher! -so believe me, I know whereof I speak. We even have a little Jew blood blood in our family, going back a couple of centuries*- so please do not tell me that it is a matter of “prejudice”. It is just the unabshed undeniabled truth!]

One of my oldest friends, and the best man at my wedding, grew up in a low crime black neighborhood on the outer edge of Detroit. It was populated almost exclusively by upper middle class blacks and was as nice and as well maintained as any of the wealthy white areas in the northern suburbs. I say this to suggest that the statement,”there are few low crime black neighborhoods” is factually defensible, your statement is not.

In the intentionally polarized political culture in which we live there are two dominant answers as to why. One is politically acceptable, one is not; both are wrong. The white nationalist/reactionary right answer is that blacks are intrinsically incapable of adopting a culture of freedom and individual responsibility. The SJW left answer is that disparate outcomes are due to institutional racism, white privilege, etc… Neither of these answers is compatible with historical reality. The white nationalist answer ignores 100 years of black history. According to Thomas Sowell and Walter Williams, until the widespread adoption of “great society” measures, the black family was more intact than white families, illegitimacy was lower among blacks than whites, unemployment, even among black male teenagers, was lower than their white counterparts, the black/white wage gap was falling and black wages were rising faster than white wages. In other words, American blacks had adopted, in large part, the values and culture associated with Western liberalism.

The SJW left answer cannot explain why all of the above gains stopped, slowed or reversed after specifically anti-racist policies were put in place. It should be undeniable that American society is less racist now than it was in the 40’s, 50’s, 60’s etc… Recognition of this fact, undermines the racist/white privilege narrative, which is why the SJW left must continually re-define racism to include near universal and benign human behavior (but only whites may be condemned).

Blacks were making remarkable gains in America until white people decided to help them. It seems that the patronizing concept of “white man’s burden” is alive and well in America today. However, the proponents of this approach seem to be almost entirely on the left. While I am always leery of making assertions about the motives of others, the observable evidence suggests that the SJW left is concerned more with the appearance of virtue, than the suffering of others.

As much as I love Thomas Sowell and Walter Williams (I’ve even corresponded with Walter), I do take some issue with the picture they paint of the state of the black community and black families of the past.

While it is true that many made great strides between the end of slavery and the implementation of the welfare state, I don’t think things were quite as rosy as many would suggest.

After all, among the reasons oft cited by whites at the time, for their ostracism of blacks, was the prevalence among blacks of having children out of wedlock; men maintaining multiple simultaneous relationships with women instead of being a husband/father to one family; tendencies of laziness, and proclivity to not maintain their environs; proclivity towards theft and substance abuse, etc. [Pretty much the same things that are still associated with them today! 😀 ]

But what I do agree with, is that, yes, many of those problems were not AS bad/as common as they now are, before the advent of the welfare state. They were far worse than the incidence of the same problems among whites of the same time…but far better than that of modern blacks.

The beauty of a Libertarian outlook though, is that we desire an atmosphere where all men may be left in peace, and be free to experience the rewards and consequences of their own choices and actions, without special help or privilege, unless someone decides to voluntarily give- and without artificial constraints- such is truly the only practice is truly fair and “equal”.

Oh, and just for trivia, and as support for the existence of functional black families in the past: I have a black friend, who grew up in such a functional family. Her father had even built the house they lived in with his own hands. My friend and her siblings were raised very strictly and conservatively.

I used to know a lot of blacks when I was younger and living in NY- but truly, this friend I mention above, whom I’ve only known for the last decade or so, is the only one I know of personally who came from such an environment. *Sadly, her siblings did not continue in the virtues in which they were raised- and in-fact, neither they nor she have managed to maintain a traditional family 🙁 )

Jeremy, I hope that these recent posts of yours are signaling your return to frequenting this site!

I’m listening to “Black Rednecks and White Liberals” right now. The following sentence of yours is startlingly similar to the opening passage of the book (I’ve changed a few words to emphasize the point):

After all, among the reasons oft cited by (Northern) whites at the time, for their ostracism of (Southern whites), was the prevalence among (them) of having children out of wedlock; men maintaining multiple simultaneous relationships with women instead of being a husband/father to one family; tendencies of laziness, and proclivity to not maintain their environs; proclivity towards theft and substance abuse, etc

Poor Southern culture shared all of these traits. Blacks were part of this culture. In addition, shirking work, laziness, seeking bodily pleasure, low time preference, etc… is a rational response to slavery.

I’ll tell you, if it weren’t for the near-future hope of getting out of here, and of looking for a vista which may offer more freedom than what we have known for many years- that- and the knowledge that God will one day wipe all of this filth off the face of the earth, I don’t know how I’d trudge on.

The “Stay and take it or die” plan is defeatist. We have to have a shot at a viable future- no matter our age or position.

Wow! You know, it’s funny- I’ve been accused in the past, on other forums, “Googling and stealing other people’s words”- but no one would ever cite an example of such (Because they were making it up)- but I’ll be darned- what you cited would certainly convict me of such a crime in any cout! If I didn’t know that my words were spontaneously generated while writing my previous post, and that I had never heard of the book which you mentioned, I would I would almost vote “guilty” myself!

But then, I guess it shouldn’t be such a surprise to me- after all, things which are readily apparent…though not so readily admitted by many today, are quite obvious.

I am st6ill quite impressed by the coincidences though….that this subject would manifest itself, and i would pen those words, just as you are here and also happen to be listening to a book that contains almost those very words…. 😮

The “using it as justification for slavery” though, is the real issue. Many can not distinguish between shunning people because one rejects their values, practices and or culture….vs. wanting to commit aggression towards them- whether in the form of enslaving them or imprisoning them, or perpetrating violence, or relieving them of their property, etc.

I got into a very interesting debate this week on a local forum, pertaining to some queers who opened a restaurant in a very small rural town near where I live.

The majority opinion supported the right of the queers to do ass they chose- both in their own lives and in business- which is fine- and yet those same people did not feel that I had the moral right to shun and criticize such people, and to refrain from patronizing their business, because of my moral and aesthetic distaste for their choices and practices.

It’s a shame that the thread was deleted, as I’m sure you would have enjoyed reading it. The points which I made about liberty and self-ownership which should apply to everyone, and not merely to some just because of the fact that they have a sexual attraction to men’s poop-chutes; and that their attacking of me for acting in accord withc my choices and values constitutes at least as much “bigotry” as they accuse me of, actually got a number of people thinking, and exposed the hypocrisy of leftist/SJW types.

“Discrimination” is nothing but the exercising of free choice and free association. Everyone lambastes the sit-com character Archie Bunker for using racial stereotypes and “slurs”- and yet no mention is made of his sit-com neighbor, the black George Jefferson- who openly hated whites, and made no bones about it!

The sad thing is, in all of the bickering between the two sides on these issues, the issue of liberty, for all, seems to always get lost- while special privileges for some at the expense of others [“Civil rights”- falsely so-called] is what gets promoted- which is rooted in and perpetuates the collective mentality.

[I’ll be amazed if it says THAT in the book!]

By-the-way, are you a fan of/familiar with the All In The Family sit-com? Not only is the near 50 year-old show hilarious, but I always find it interesting how the arguments between Archie Bunker and his liberal son-in-law are still so very relevant today. [More coincidence? I just returned from dropping off some AITF DVDs at my mother’s!]

The opening of “Black Rednecks and White Liberals” expresses the same sentiment as your passage, but in different words, directed toward Southern whites. I took what you had written and changed a few words to emphasize this point. To clarify, Sowell was quoting an opinion piece written in Indianapolis in the 50’s.

The point of identity politics is to create conflict. Rights, properly understood, cannot conflict. Qualified rights (gay rights, black rights, civil rights, etc…) is a form of linguistic subterfuge, designed to confuse and to create resentment.

“My uncle has a country place, that no-one knows about
He says it used to be a farm, before the Motor Law
Sundays I elude the ‘Eyes’, and hop the Turbine Freight
To far outside the Wire, where my white-haired uncle waits

Jump to the ground
As the Turbo slows to cross the borderline
Run like the wind
As excitement shivers up and down my spine
Down in his barn
My uncle preserved for me an old machine –
For fifty-odd years
To keep it as new has been his dearest dream
I strip away the old debris, that hides a shining car
A brilliant red Barchetta, from a better, vanished time
Fire up the willing engine, responding with a roar!
Tires spitting gravel, I commit my weekly crime…

Well-weathered leather
Hot metal and oil
The scented country air
Sunlight on chrome
The blur of the landscape
Every nerve aware
Suddenly ahead of me, across the mountainside
A gleaming alloy air-car shoots towards me, two lanes wide
I spin around with shrieking tires, to run the deadly race
Go screaming through the valley as another joins the chase

Drive like the wind
Straining the limits of machine and man
Laughing out loud
With fear and hope, I’ve got a desperate plan
At the one-lane bridge
I leave the giants stranded
At the riverside
Race back to the farm
To dream with my uncle
At the fireside…”

I am getting a 76 Lincoln Mark IV finished up to become my day-to-day car. I have to still replace a few things to make it reliable, but I am driving it now. It is my Red Barchetta. It is good for 118 on the highway now, but I should be able to get at least 130 out of it when it is optimized.

Rush (not the Republican shill whom was once a neighbor many moons ago) is proof that there’s still hope for “Soviet Canuckistan”. And to think that in 1944 and 1945, Americans and Brita got sneering Nazi prisoners to cooperate by threatening to turn them over to the CANADIANS.

Yet these same shitdippers that we call “government agents” can’t figure out why planes were falling out of the sky (not exactly; the exaggeration is intentional), and Navy aircraft carriers were colliding with each other these past few years.

It was because the back-up GPS system wasn’t functioning properly.

What will happen when all the roads are crowded with cars, and the GPS stops working? NO ONE MOVES! In other words: We’re all stuck in place.

Even if the technology can be made bulletproof, I will never understand people who willingly surrender control over their car (and so, their freedom) to a hive mind collective which – like all collectives – will need to be run by someone. And that someone will not be them.

Yes, Eric. It’s too bad that most people don’t understand or recognize the sociopath tendencies of Big Government types until it’s too late. They look at government as the ultimate protector, instead of the one most likely to destroy.

This is why it is so important to not let them get away with word abuse. There is no “government.” There are people who somehow presume to control us. These people are much less awesome (in the original meaning of that word) than this remote, all-powerful entity called “the government.” It is easier to delegitimize abusive authority exercised by other people – usually of low caliber, viz armed government workers – than to challenge the Oz-like thing called “government.”

Exactly, Travis! And never mind not being able to move- the thing is: Since split-second actions matter in traffic and or at high speeds, if there is a mere glitch, even if the computer can react fast enough, just in the time that is lost- that split second- is all it would take (especially when it would affect many vehicles at once) for a mass catastrophe to ensue!

I recall with humor the classic Star Trek episode, “Spock’s Brain” (arguably one of the worst written, but hey, it had its moments), where the ditzy female in charge, when asked about Spock’s brain, shrieks, “Brain and Brain! What is BRAIN?!”…then, she has a brief moment of ‘clarity’, and aks, “It is CONTROLLER, isn’t it?”. Ah, if only the brain of a “pointy-eared hobgoblin” from a planet in the habitable zone of 40 Eridani (and one is actually BELIEVED to exist, though not yet confirmed!) were running things!

The present technology of vehicles ALREADY enables them to store significant amount of data which already can be readily used against the owners interests. And most cars already have Bluetooth built in. It’s not a great stretch that even if the self-driving car is a long way in the future, more for economic than technical reasons, that the powers-that-be still have great incentive to track our driving and, once two-way communication is common, REGULATE things like top speed, total miles driven, access to ‘restricted’ areas, or even shut down the vehicle altogether if the owner has proved to be too “irritating”! Just imagine, for example, in a row with the local constables, you file a complaint with the internal affairs department AND hire an attorney who files a claim with that municipality and a lawsuit in Federal Court over USC 83. Wouldn’t be too hard for them to label you a “terrorist”, or claim that you’re “harassing” them, and simply shut down your vehicle in the driveway, rendering it effectively junk! Of course, with our ‘esteemed’ Department of HOMELAND SECURITY, there would be a natural progression to having one’s movements compiled into an enormous database. And BTW…what IS the purpose of that massive NSA facility near where my daughter and her family live in Utah?

Sure, my grown son and I are already restoring a 1966 Plymouth Fury II, with the “Canadian” 318, or “Poly” engine, which we’re rebuilding as a 360 CID “Poly” with a forged steel crank used in Mopar truck engines and a decent 3/4 cam. The idea, since it’s currently exempt from even the great state of “Californicate” smog requirements, is to give our local DMV the “Finger”! Never mind that if we popularize this trend to vintage iron that we’ll draw the ire of ‘statists’ and other “Clovers” in the (once) “Golden” State. It’d not be a stretch to require a tracking and/or interlock device in that vintage hulk, which actually wouldn’t be all that expensive, and make we owners pay for its installation and monitoring!

How the state, whether it’s the Gestapo, the Stasi, the “Committee for State Security”, or KGB (or it’s modern successor in the Russian Federation, the FSB), or, the DHS, controls the “Sheeple”, is more a matter of technology and economics than it is of will. Given the abilities to monitor and/or control, ALL state organs will do so, by ostensibly legal means, if such niceties are observed, but at times extra-legal…since typically the means to hold them ACCOUNTABLE are ineffectual to non-exist. And we “Muricans” should not kids ourselves that the police at the municipal and state levels, as well as law enforcement agencies of the Federal Government, let alone Federal Agencies of “national security” and/or the MILITARY, will not hesitate to disregard the law and trample our rights.

Knowing the great state of “Californicate”, they’d either refuse to certify it as road worthy for reasons of s-a-a-a-f-t-e-e-e-e-e, or require that the ignition have an interlock installed that would allow the cops to shut you down at will. Bypassing or removing the interlock would bring about a fine and/or confiscation of your precious ride. After all, we can’t have someone running around “uncontrolled”, now, can WE?

I wish it were the stuff of satire. Too many statists would enact it in a “New Yawk” minute.

I agree on both counts. First, the busybody/control freak mentality is now – if not the dominant mentality – no longer a minority mentality. Second, technology has empowered busybodies and control freaks to a degree that was pure science fiction as recently as the ’90s, when Demolition Man came out.

Giving a Clover technology is worse than giving an idiot child a loaded automatic rifle.

And all this control will be sold as “saving the planet” (i.e., lowering exhaust emissions and fuel consumption, never mind WHOSE fuel it is), or for “s-a-a-a-f-t-e-e-e”, especially for the “Children”.

Yep, what a waste of the late Nigel Hawthorne’s talents (I prefer another flick he made about the same time, “The Madness of King George”)…Cocteau was an asshole, an “Evil Mr. Rogers”. What a SHAME it’d be to sit on the couch with a then 28 y.o. Sandra Bullock and put on some VR head gear to have ‘virtual sex’? “Eff” that! John Spartan was right…”BONING, the WILD MAMBO, the HUNKA CHUNKA…”

Eric, While I generally agree with your views on mandated govt safety requirements, there is one obvious fact that needs addressing: the most dangerous thing the average person does is get behind the wheel of a 3,000-10,000 lb motor vehicle. Or much lighter if a motorcycle. Then they drive that at very high speeds on roads with behemoths some of which being semi trucks, doubles or even triples, at many times that weight.
And as you never tire of noting, a large fraction of vehicles (other than professional truckers) are driven by clovers or other intelligence impaired individuals. Thousands are killed very week. In the future such slaughter will be the cause of horror and wonderment. How did we live taking such crazy death/injury risk?
In such a scenario, you are at risk by the dumbest, drunkest, druggiest, most cell phone distracted fool behind the wheel able to hit you. You must drive your vehicle and in effect, theirs, to avoid death.
AI is a long way from removing people from vehicle control. That could happen in the future on high speed high capacity roadways like Interstates or major multiple lane city roads. Only these would make sense, since speed, distance, crash avoidance, entering/exiting could also be controlled separately via roadway guidance technology. Other than that, AI will only work to avoid crashes and override bad decisions. People want freedom to drive. People also want to avoid idiots trying to kill them, or merely foolish enough not to care. I think markets and freedom loving people will find a blended tech solution. AI is a long way from enslaving us. Maybe though, keep street racing idiot kids and drunks from killing us.

I base my arguments on the pretty unassailable fact that technology is more and more used to tyrannize us – that is, everyone – usually using the arguments you’ve adduced about some people being dangerous, reckless, idiotic – etc.

Which of course is true.

There are plenty of imbeciles and worse out there.

But, I don’t want to be controlled and managed on account of some people needing to be.

I’m sick of not being able to buy cough syrup because some people turn it into meth (or whatever they do with it). I’m tired of not being allowed to buy certain types of guns (e.g., full-auto) because some people cause problems with them.

I resent being treated as a presumptive “terrorist” because some people are.

And I tire of being threatened with fines and violence because I choose not to send money to the health insurance mafia because I am in no need of poultices and salves, but some people are.

You can see where I am headed … it’s the same with regard to cars.

All this saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaafety stuff would, indeed, be fine (with me) provided I have the option to skip it.

While the argument about technology cuts both ways, it is hard to argue that average Americans today are more “tyrannized” today than they were 200 years ago. Then, unless a male property owner, you had zero say and could be indentured over debts or if the wrong color, enslaved. That was low tech.
While the argument from “safety” assumes Big Brother knows better than you the risks, you don’t own the roads like you do your own body. You have to share them other than on your rural property. Every driver on those public roads endangers everyone else. In a free society you can’t willy-nilly impose your risky behavior on others. You can’t buy enough insurance for that. AI will be voluntarily implemented. Major roadway AI with near full control will become a condition of use, because Eric doesn’t own the highway. The tech will save over 55K lives per year in the US. To assume that it will become totally Stalinist is merely arguing that the US will become likewise. A danger true, but a worst case scenario. Living in the “worst case scenario” world today ends in craziness or total isolation. I doubt most want either.

*”While the argument about technology cuts both ways, it is hard to argue that average Americans today are more “tyrannized” today than they were 200 years ago. Then, unless a male property owner, you had zero say and could be indentured over debts or if the wrong color, enslaved. That was low tech. “*

Trouble is, Mugsy, today, every color is the wrong color. We are ALL enslaved. And I’m a white male property owner, and have zero say- unless one considers the ability to participate in some meaningless election “a say”- and except for a few places today, most people, including white males, have no say even over their own property, as they must get permission and buy permits to do every little thing, if what they want to do is even allowed!

You make it sound as though AI is infallible. It is not. Plenty of things which have been automated- from autopilot on ships, to subway systems, to electrical grids, etc. still malfunction or fail to deal with real-world situations correctly, and result in catastrophic accidents. Heck, even the autopilot in commercial jets requires two humans to back it up- and that’s in the sky, where traffic is non-existent.

It’s not about safety; it’s about control.

And speaking of responsibility for damages which one may cause: In your first paragraph you cite being indentured for debts as an example of tyranny- but in reality, that is just the holding of one responsible for the liabilities he creates. Making EVERYONE pay continually for liabilities they have not incurred, THAT is tyranny- and that is what mandatory insurance is.

In 36 years of driving, I have never incurred a liability/never caused harm to another person or their property- yet I have paid probably $30,000 in insurance premiums over the years. THAT is tyranny and servitude and indenturedness. And yet Jamaal The Homie or Billy Bob The Meth-head can go out and cause massive damage and injury, and since there is no longer indenturedness for private debts (But there still is for debts to the state- like if you fail to pay what the IRS demands, or a ticket for some “offense” which harmed nobody, like not wearing your setbelt) he will get off scot-free, excpet perhaps for paying fines to the state for not having insurance and such- and his will never have to compensate his victim whom he injured or whose property he destroyed.

Those who obsess about the “Control” of our FREEDOMS, most notably GUN “Control”, in their arrogance, presume themselves to be intellectually, culturally, and MORALLY superior, and we “great unwashed” as dolts, morons, adult-sized infants, or even criminals that simply haven’t been apprehended and charged…YET! And they’ve no shortage of buzz-cutted, bulldog-jowled, overweight “heroes”, fresh out of the military, whom didn’t get enough “trigger time” in Fallujah or Kandahar, and are mentally and emotionally prepared to wage war…on US, to work for them!

Our military was never supposed to be used ON US. So now they get ex-military, and have them join a military organization which they call “the police force”, and accomplish the same thing.

The SCOTUS lives on semantics!
Can’t have a central bank? No problemo! Here’s a “Federal Reserve”.
Can’t stop people at random to go on a witch-hunt? No problemo! Just stop every 3rd, or 5th, or 7th car…then it’s not “random”…nyuk nyuk nyuk!
Can’t use the military on our own people? Give ’em different uniforms and call ’em cops!

Spot on Nunz! Especially the second paragraph. The Masters of propaganda manipulate the public with nonsense words and phrases. I am willing to bet that 90% of US amerikans think that the Federal Reserve is a part of the government.

And just look how the VAST majority of people overlook their real oppressor- the government- and instead think that “the rich” are somehow oppressing them, and responsible for their plight, and somehow “should pay more money to be redistributed, just because they make more money”.

But they completely ignore what the “Fed” does with the stroke of a pen; or the printing-up of more worthless FRNs; and the shole scam of the government borrowing money from that corporation, and making us pay the debt!

And that’d be one sad dystpida, and Coctaue is an “asshole”! However, I wouldn’t have a problem with “mind boinking” a then 28 y.o. Sandra Bullock (hell, I’ll do her NOW!), though, as the 74 y.o. John Spartan, fresh outta Cryoprison, put it, would prefer, “Boning, the Wild Mambo, the HUNKA CHUNKA!”

Eric, you and I often think very much alike, but I must take issue with your oft-repeated sentiment that cars foster freedom.

They only do to a the extent that they offer a degree of freedom within the bounds of statist world.

Think about it:

Cars require an intricate network of smooth-paved roads and traffic-control devices (The idea that such could exist as a product of a truly free market is BS. Imagine all of the roads in a city; all the traffic lights; all of the people. The idea of [private companies erecting and maintaining such roads, and coordinating traffic control devices; and managing to charge the users of those roads; and not infringing on private property, and not having guys with guns to effect all of their doings, is unrealistic at best.)

Cars require the existence of a humongous oil industry- again, something which would be nigh impossible without the coercion of land owners and other countries, etc.

Cars require that there be a huge number of people who are willing to work in factories, to manufacture them and all of their components. Generally, people only work in factories out of economic necessity- and that necessity is most often created by the manipulation of the free market, or the imposition of a centralized artificial market. In a truly free market with no taxes, or price manipulation or centralized banking system, etc. no one would say “Gee, I think I’d like to spend my life working at some boring repetitive job in a factory!”.

Cars, and their requisite infrastructure, effectively ensure that no other forms of transportation are viable (i.e. walking; horse; bicycle; go-karts…)- You pretty much MUST have a car in order to have the aforementioned “freedom” within the confines of the car-centric world. And since everyone has a car, most things which used to be accomplished on a very local basis, no longer can be. You now must purchase the car; maintain it; buy fuel for it; use the infrastructure which the state has paid for with extorted money and built on stolen land; etc.

Cars are an economic burden. People in developed nations spend a disproportionate amount of their income on transportation. I think here in ‘Murca, the average is around 25%!!!! It’s not optional. As stated in the previous paragraph, the car infrastructure has created a world in which you basically can not live without a car.

I’m not seeing the freedom.

Just because you can hop in the car and travel anywhere that the infrastructure extends to, is tantamount to saying that Obammycare makes you free, because it allows you to go to the doctor/hospital.

TAIN’T FREEDOM (Butr may be tainted freedom 😀 )

It’s hard for me to imagine that you haven’t already contemplated these things, Eric, so I will await your thoughts on the matter. Or is it a case of our love for something clouding our logic? I mean, I too love cars (Well, old ones…not these modern piles of electronics and tyranny)- but just because we take pleasure in something, doesn’t mean that we should overlook the negatives.

I mean, let’s face it: Most teens get their first does of voluntary interaction with the state by getting a driver’s license; and then are forced into the statist’s economic system of paying taxes, and working for a corporation (maybe in a factory! 🙂 ) and buying insurance, and gas, and registrations and inspections; and dealing with armed government highwaymen, etc. just for the privilege of being able to travel- which up until quite recently in history, one was perfectly able to do without cost or penalty or prodding….just so he can achieve the feeling of freedom within the confines of the tyrannical system.

Nunz, if I may interject here, again I do not disagree except to say that there is no Utopia (I am certain you know this already) so the best we can hope for is to get as close as we can to it. Taking away the freedom of individual cars takes us farther away from Liberty Utopia not bring us closer to it.

And I think there are many people who have the capability to do factory work so long as it pays fairly. And bless them too – I worked in a factory for two months and had to quit to keep from blowing my brains out from boredom.

No utopia. No truly Libertarian/anarchistic places on earth. But there are places where one can be pretty much left alone, and or fly below the radar because some places just don’t have the resources or infrastructure to farm human cattle.

Of course, one does not have the luxuries they are accustomed to here- but that’s where the rubber meets the road. Are we willing to live without what the welfare-warfare state has built?

And one thing: Don’t confuse cars with the right to travel. Although they should be a natural part of that, in today’s world, they are often used more as a means of control- economic and, coming soon: physical!

I think we’ve become so used to cars, that if we were to go to a place that doesn’t have good roads…we wouldn’t know what to do.

And yes, I have worked in factories too, when I was young, for very short periods. I don’t know how anyone can stand to do it, year in and year out- it’s just a waste of time. That’s why I say that no one would willingly choose to work in a factory. We have people eager to work in factories because the government skools turn out people who don’t know how to do/aren’t fit for anything else; because a million crazy laws and taxes prevent them from being self-employed; because they need a steady income to pay for Obammycare and car insurance and debt, and all of the other crap they’ve been tricked into acquiring, etc.

In other words, people work in factories because other people (government) have created conditions which make it necessary.

From the end of WWII on (even sooner in California, where “car culture” really came out, in no small part due to the climate and lack of “public transportation”), cars were powerful enough to be fun, but reliable and cheap enough to be acquirable by the average working fellow, and FUN. And each of them had their own “personality” and loyal following! The best part? In comparison to today’s computers with chromed wheels, they were SIMPLE…one year of auto shop (which, BTW, all young lads HAD to take in high school back in the day!) and most kids could keep an old heap running, if their dads or uncles or whatever male role model hadn’t already taught them! Today’s cars which are little more than four-door video gaming platforms are a result of a generation of young lads being raised primarily by WOMEN…with predictable and emasculating results!

It was bicyclists that privately began the network of smooth paved roads in the USA. Government took it over. Like anything government takes over we are told it couldn’t exist without government.

For decades gasoline manufacturing was a decentralized business. From the bigs to the independents. Through government regulation it was consolidated. The networks to distribute fuel, manufacture parts, get things where they needed to be and so on were all privately created. People started working in factories because it was easier and more money than working on farms. Working in offices isn’t exactly fun either. It might suck putting tab A into slot B all day but when your shift is done your shift is done. You don’t have some problem you have to solve by the next morning.

You can live without a car. You simply have to go live in a dense big city or ride a bicycle. May also choose your location very carefully. I could go without a car. It wouldn’t be fun for much of the year given the weather but I could.

Insurance mafia aside the only reason someone spends 25% of their income on transportation is because they want to for some reason. They want to put their income on display, want attention, can’t do anything for themselves, whatever it is. People make their choices in life. If there were no private automobiles and they would have fancy carriages and spend a hell of a lot more on horses.

One of things I recommend people do is read the publications from the dawn of the automobile. There are reasons people chose it, embraced it. Forgotten reasons for most.

Anyway we won’t have cars once agenda 2030 comes to reality. We’ll have our tiny apartments and when the corporations want us somewhere else our stuff will go into a shipping container and we’ll be relocated. Living our lives in whatever 3 mile radius we are assigned to.

Brent, when I was a kid, we lived without a car (for me, that was age 0 till I got my first car at 20)[Yeah, I owned a boat before i ever owned a car!]

We lived most of that time in the downtown area of a suburb- at a time when downtowns still had everything one needed. It was freaking great! I’ve never felt so free! We walked everywhere, or i rode my bike.

Don’t have places like that anymore- and if anything even close exists, it is totally tyrannized now.

I think all the walking really contributed to my mother’s and my health and longevity!

Smooth-paved roads for bicycles? I don’t know about that. In many cities, cobblestone roads persisted even into the 80’s! truly SMOOTH paved roads are a relatively recent thing in many places- only coming about long after the automobile came on the scene.

Way I understand it, bicycling, from the penny farthing days to the early “safety bicycle” never really had a mass appeal, except for brief crazes (Like the cycling craze of the 70’s, when everyone got a drop-bar 10-speed!).

I believe it was after the Model T started taking off, that there was a big push to start making smooth concrete roads in new suburbs- ’cause many of those roads not really in places where cycling was a thing, nor were they really even suitable for cycling.

There is a way to choose wisely. I can walk to most everything I need. Even Walmart is close as crow flies. Sadly I can’t take that route. Land a family has owned since probably the 19th century is in the way of the direct route. But I don’t need to go there since banks, hardware store, grocery store, and much more is within a short walk.

Another problem in other areas is neighborhood decay. Places that used to be walkable aren’t any more because the close businesses all closed up. But the way the area is built is just fine for walking.

Yes, that decay- not only a result of societal decay- but has largely been caused by car-centric culture. New stores, and especially big box stores would come in, and of course, since there wasn’t lots of easy parking downtown (Nor space for the box stores) they’d locate on the outskirts; then new houses would be built around them, and before you know it, the middle class was decentralizing from the old downtowns to the scattered outskirts, and the places they vacate become ghettos.

So everything’s scattered now, from downtown to various outlying areas.

Plus, if you want privacy and quiet….you don’t want to live in some subdivision. Plus the level of control that local Uncle exerts in most non-rural places today, pretty much makes any kind of town living non viable.

Sad thing is: In rural areas, like where I now live, the local towns- be it the tiny (pop. 300) town closest to me- or the county seat 15 minutes away (pop. 1500) used to be real communities, with all kinds of stores; and where you could get fresh produce and pretty much anything you needed.

Now, since most people seem to want to work at jobs instead of farming and such- and even the wives of farmers work at jobs instead of being housewives, most people commute daily to the larger town (pop. 12,000) in the next county, where they work at the hospital or jail or some other outpost of the Beast- and thus just pick up what they need at the Walmart or other stores there- so all of the stores in these small towns- and any downtown/community life, are long gone.

You woukld think at least, that the upside to this is that it allows people like myself to live further out- what the heck, I can drive to town (In the next county) a couple of times a month, and live in bliss on my property the rest of the time)- but even that is compromised, because car-centricity also allows others to do the same, and so now the out-in-the-middle-of-nowhere that I moved to 17 years ago, is suddenly surrounded by neighbors…… (This has been the story of my life- can’t seem to get away from it!)

Ah, I know, Eric. I sometimes addressing everything on here can be really time consuming. I often save the “biggies” for later…only with me, sometimes after having formulated a response in mind, I get bored with the subject, and just end up forgetting about it! 🙂

I hate to jump the gun, but think in a way, what this boils down to, is that we’re complaining that they are interfering with our right to travel…..BUT, if we think about it, what we are saying is: “They are interfering with our right to travel freely on the infrastructure which they have built with extorted money and stolen land, and which is maintained with even more extorted money” (i.e. not just gasoline taxes which supposedly pay for the roads- but local taxes, which pay the electric bills and purchase of and maintenance of traffic lights, etc.); interest on bonds for construction; federal grants for all kinds of “transportation related” bullshit- all paid for with various non-fuel taxes, etc. etc.

It’s really a false freedom- like the “freedom” to own slaves who are not indebted to you. How can we be “free” to use an infrastructure which was built upon extortion and trespass?

The government-created car infrastructure (Physical, economic, et al) is much like Social[ist] Security:

People look upon SS as “their right”. They call it “their money” because they were required to pay a tax, and in turn that entitles them to now be the beneficiaries of those who are being taxed now; They want “theirs”, even though “theirs” went to pay someone else, and now to collect what some politician says they are entitled to, someone else in turn must be forced to pay- but since the beneficiary paid his tax (or maybe just his spouse or parent did) it is now “his right” to “get what he is entitled to” at the expense of someone else. It is a self-perpetuating system of extortion and tyranny, perpetuated by it’s very victims- but propose ending such a tyranny, and 99.99% of people will label you as being worse than Hitler and an enemy of freedom…for wanting to free them, because they equate such a system with freedom, rather than with tyranny- which it really is.

When we say that cars offer one freedom, we are basically making the same argument. We’re saying that the “right” to use the infrastructure which is built upon force, trespass, extortion and tyranny….makes us free- which, ON THE SURFACE would seem to be a legit argument, since the world around us has become centered around that car-centric infrastructure, thereby making life difficult or impossible without the ability to participate in that infrastructure.

“How they got this power – and what gives them the moral right to possess it and exercise it against us – are two questions that ought to be asked (and answered) more often.”

Answer: They got it because the American people preferred to sit on a sofa in front of a flat-screen and eat themselves into morbid obesity while watching grown men in Spandex pants play football on Astroturf and let somebody else take care of them. So they willingly traded their freedom away in exchange for comfort and entertainment.

Freedom is HARD. Freedom means that YOU have to actually work… and YOU actually have to THINK… and YOU have to make sure that you don’t screw up because YOU will pay the consequences if you do.

Like the Donner Party.

Truth is, relatively few people want to be free, and very few people are capable of being free. The white men who founded this country were a special breed… a cut above the average idiot.

I doubt that one in ten Americans today could survive a month on the life of a frontiersman in 1830…

“Truth is, relatively few people want to be free, and very few people are capable of being free. The white men who founded this country were a special breed… a cut above the average idiot.”

Agree. And, to be precise, classical liberal / libertarian philosophy is by far a predominantly White Male thing. Without a White homeland there will never be a conservative / minarchist, let alone an anarchist society. Even with one. there may never be such a society.

Single White womyn, Jews, Muzzies, Blacks, Asians, and all other POC minos always vote in blocs ranging from 73% to 93 % for libs, Dems, and welfare. They may loathe one another, but their anti-White animus unites them at the polls. They hate our guts, want what we built, and are now openly hell bent on terminating our very existence. Jews, especially, see themselves as separate from and superior to all other races. And throughout history they have regarded Aryan men as the primary obstacle to Jewish global hegemony.

It is noteworthy that within our own race freedom lovers are a small minority, tolerated but mostly marginalized. White Nationalist/Separatists are an even smaller minority, vilified and violently besieged.

Most libertarians – at least those in my circles – seem clueless about the racial war being waged against them and by whom this war is funded and masterminded, and are reflexively quick to virtue signal their own anti-racist, pro-Semitic, and white-knight predilections, while condemning White Nationalists as racists, supremacists, anti-semites, and reprobates.

To complicate the conundrum, far too many White Nationalists / Separatists, especially the young men in their 20s and 30s, consider libertarianism to be passe, retarded, or Jewish-controlled and are eager to embrace the illusion of an authoritarian centralized fascism – for lack of a better defined term – that serves the Folk and is led by a powerful patriarchal charismatic leader from the mold of a Trump, Duterte, or Putin

Since I am both a WN and an anarchist, I find myself at odds with my fellows in both camps…which places me on the fringes of the fringes of contemporary American society, such that it is.

Just to substantiate what you said: All one has to do is look at what’s happening in South Africa.

Now that Mandela’s communist terrorist nigger government has come to power, they are killing the whites and taking their land; and even in the process of making such “legal” government procedure. Whites are fleeing the country, and being assylum in Australia and New Zealand and Russia (But not here, of course- we only take in the black and brown scum of the earth who don’t share the culture, religion or values of the traditional white culture of this country).

And the stinking Jew-bastard media; the ones who were crying crocodile tears 30 years ago because of Apartheid, and telling us to boycott South Africa; and villifying the whites who were trying to maintain some level of civility in their country, are completely silent about the genocide now being committed by these filthy ignorant apes.

And that’s just the beginning. It is quite obvious, that we are being prepped for the very same sort of thing.

Mack, agree. Race matters and Libertarianism ignores this fact at it’s own peril. Libertarians are beyond foolish if they think their philosophy is feasible for nonWhites.

Hell, even most Whites cannot handle the responsibility that comes with a Libertarian society.

The reality of human nature nullifies Libertarianism as a universal basis
for governance.

This being the case, homogeneous societies are the best hope for peace and prosperity for all races. And that is why I too am a “White Nationalist”. I certainly do not support Naziism or any other forced collectivism. I simply believe that human nature – especially the natural desire for loyalty to one’s species/breed/tribe – trumps do-gooder social engineering. Nature can only be ignored for so long before it reasserts itself.

So, we know this garbage, and LOTS more, is coming to all of the first-world countries….. Tyranny on steroids.

We know that we are not going to stop it, and that the majority of people will just go along.

If we continue to stay in places like this, then we get this stuff shoved down our throats; and it doesn’t matter if we’re Libertarians or Anarchists or what have you, because our ideals will be in vain, since there is no way to escape these tyrants whilst in the midst of their jurisdiction- and what ever philosophies we advocate are meaningless because we, like everyone else, are forced into this technocracy.

We need to stop complaining and to stop acting shocked at every step the tyrants take to advance their tyrannies….and rather take positive actions to free ourselves from this nonsense, by GETTING OUT OF HERE.

If you want to retain any degree of liberty and self-ownership, the only way to do so is to GET OUT.

Our overlords are insane!
Most of the people around us are insane!
We have already surpassed anything George Orwell ever imagined in 1984.

If we stay here, THIS IS WHAT WE GET! The handwriting’s on the wall. We know what’s coming, and it’s even worse than that which already exists, which is bad enough.

What difference is there between a Libertarian and a statrist, if they are both content to live under tyranny?

Nunz, do not disagree except to ask To where can we go?! The tyranny is everywhere not just in the US.

I have looked into moving out of the country but concluded that there really is no place to go that has real freedom. So I concluded that the best I could hope for would be to find the freeist place I could within my meager, but debt free, budget. That is why I now live in the boonies of Maine. It ain’t perfect but it will more than do because it has the three Ws I have been looking for: good Weed and Weapons laws and Whiteness (other peaceable people who mind their own business).

And by staying in country I can, when the time comes, be here to actually fight the good fight. I am in my late fifties and have lived a great life. I am willing to give my life to the great cause of Liberty when it becomes necessary. I would rather die fighting the bastards (by any means necessary) than live a life of constantly running from the bastards.

Skunks, there are tons of places to go. Mostly in the southern “hemisphere”. From little island nations, to areas with vast wildernesses or scattered towns and small cities, which have virtually no technological infrastructure, and generally only one layer of government, which is usually concentrated only in the capitol city. People who live in such places go about their lives without ever giving a thought to government, because there is no contact in such places with the government.

Even tamer, closer places, like South and Central America- although I would not go there as they all seem to be heading towards socialism and development, the fact is, I know quite a few people who have moved to such places- and once you get away from the obvious bad nations, and big cities, it’s 95% freer than it is here. There’s just no infrastructure for “law enforcement” and local government once you get out into the boonies; and unlike here, the people aren’t busybodies. They don’t car4e about nor follow any stupid laws.

There’s no EPA, no local police and sheriff; no DEA, no dept. of this and bureau of that…just people living as they always have.

I’m in my mid 50’s. I don’t want to die here. I’m not fighting, because there’s nothing to fight for. If there’s a war, it won’t be a war for liberty, any more so than the Soviets fighting Hitler. It’ll just be a war for which style of tyranny shall prevail. It’s a lot easier to leave than to fight their wars. You can’t even fight the local police department….so basically, any idea of fighting- even if it were for liberty, is really just self-sacrifice.

Not an option.

And we all know, if we stay, we just end up compromising- just like we’ve compromised to exist here thus far. We keep moving our line in the sand back a few feet with every new tyranny that comes along, until it’s at our toes. We’re just about there now.\

Find a nice place to sit it out, because nothing good is going to come of this. They’re putting the finishing touches on what will be the greatest tyranny ever known in the history of mankind. Tyrants+technology+heavily indoctrinated people….. It’s a whole new ballgame.

Nunz, I looked into the central/south America option. My son has traveled extensively throughout the area and reports that there is indeed mucho freedom in many ways but there is also the trade off with quality of life i.e. third world vs first world. My requirements are not very high but I do expect a certain level of society.

As I said before one of my uncompromising requirements is Weapons – gun ownership. This eliminated the south of the border option.

When I first moved here in the very small town in Maine (population 247) I started asking questions about what I can and cannot do and it was amazing to have everyone I talked to react the same: they smiled amusingly and said “No one cares what you do here.”

As for fighting the good fight, I would never fight for any government (again). I will however fight the government and it’s proponents when they come for my guns (this will be the start of the civil war brought about probably by racial battles). Someone has to take a stand whether it is (supposedly) doomed or not. I will take such a stand. Fighting and perhaps dying for what is right is better than cowering in a corner waiting for someone else to take a stand on my behalf (not saying that is your argument).

I fully agree with you that something wicked this way comes. Something very wicked indeed. But it must be confronted and defeated.

Unless there is a zombie apocalypse (probably in the end that would be the best hope for humanity in getting a reset) it is all about compromise. The only question is How much can one compromise?

I’ve ruled out Central/South America for myself too, but just mention it because I know so many people who have indeed moved there (every one of ’em over 10 years ago) and are quite happy- but granted, their standards might not be as high as ours, as far as freedom goes.

And bear in mind, that when it comes to many of these third-world places (And I do believe that the only worthwhile places are in the third world. First world is already completely tyrannized; Second world is halfway there, and trying to catch up) even where gun rights aren’t explicitly stated, more people have them than not- and they’re easier to obtain than they are here, with no paperwork. (I’m like you- I will not live unarmed!- one of the reasons I moved to KY, because we are “allowed” to freely buy, sell and trade guns among ourselves without paperwork or any of that BS).

Yeah, the “society” thing. I would prefer to live in a place where there is a genteel Christian (or at least civil and polite) society, like once existed in the English-speaking countries…but that’s pretty much gone- even here and in the other English countries.

In many cases, you can actually find a higher degree of civilization in the wilderness (places which have not been ruined by Western culture/media) than you can right here in the US of A anymore.

I used to think: “Well, at least here we have Constitutional protections for certain things, and a rather civilized culture with at least somewhat of a standard of decency”- but we just don’t have those things anymore- and it’s getting worse by the year.

Living in the country as I now do, I see that my hunch was right, in that life is what you make of it, when you’re out on your own and have some land, and are left alone. Same goes for pretty much anywhere else. In the city, where nothing but 2 sheets of sheetrock and 4″ of air space separate you from your neighbor….every little thing that others do, affect you. When half a mile separates you from your neighbor…what you do affects you…and that’s all you need to worry about.

And re: fighting: Remember though- there is no such thing as “government”. The government is virtually every family around you, who have several members who are cops; mercenary killers; some sort of local, state or federal agent/employee; aerospace workers; teachers; school bus/mass transit workers; postal workers….etc. etc..

Hard to find one household that doesn’t contain one of the above, or the parents/offspring of one of the above, and who are related to several more. That’s “the government”. That’s a pretty damn big enemy!

They’ll choose up sides one day- or all join a common side against a common enemy- such as freedom- and you and I are nothing buy fleas whom they need not even think about.

Anywho, best of luck there in ME. I sure know the feeling- after leaving NY for KY- Just the relative freedom we gain; and the economic freedom….is like night and day. But you’ll see before long (as I see here)…..the tyranny creeps. Little by little, all places adopt the very same protocols and practices which made the places we vacated what they had become. It’s like cancer…it just keeps eating away, until no place is left untouched.

That’s why I want to get out while I can. I’ve already compromised enough. To stay, means to either compromise more, or die/lose everything one has, including their liberty. Those are not viable options for me. I’d like to still be able to enjoy a few decades before I croak, without waking up every day sickened and stifled by some would-be god-men whom my neighbors chose.

That feeling of freedom I got when I left NY, that was like a breath of fresh air- imagine how much more intense that would be in a place where government is basically non-existent?! (And where there is no physical or political infrastructure in place and at work to impose such, and which is funded by a giant beast of a federal government!)

It’s amazing. I’ve never in my life found even a small group of people with whom, even though we may differ on a few small details, are so united in overall thought and purpose; and who have such a realistic understanding of the world around us.

This is amazing. And if you can’t tell from my posts, I’ve always felt that you and I were always basically on the same page.

Oh, and a forgotten point about leaving: You’d be surprised; even in a lot of these far-off remote places, there are small contingents of expats- liberty-minded people from here and Britain and Europe and Canada, etc. -so it doesn’t necessarily have to be a complete cultural wilderness.

It’s kinda like here, or various places around the country where I’ve traveled- I invariably run into someone from my hometown. Someone whom I didn’t know when I lived there, and who may even be largely on the same page as myself, and left for the same reasons…and yet we were unaware of each other’s existence when we lived in the sme town, 5 minutes from each other….but manage to connect 3000 miles away!

It’s funny how that works.

One thing I’ve learned: Good things happened when you seek liberty and extricate yourself from tyranny. Conversely, nothing good happens when you tolerate tyranny.

Nunz, with the exception of my son I do not know a single “live” person who I can discuss any of this with. I am a loner so that certainly is a factor but I have yet to meet anyone off line with whom I can have an intelligent conversation.

And by intelligent conversation I do not mean one where we all agree with me – like most people mean when they use that term. Indeed, that is what I love about EPA – we all might not agree on everything but just about every poster here has an intelligent opinion.

God it is refreshing to come here after having to deal with “bread and circus” enthusists all day, every day.

I try not to talk about freedom issues to people. They wind up just looking at me like I’ve sprouted horns.

Every once in a while I do slip up though. Not long ago at a family gathering, as tends to happen with older people, the conversation turned to Socialist Insecurity and Medicrap. Without thinking first I made the mistake of mentioning that I don’t participate in either and was immediately hit with the incessant bleating of “but it’s your money that you paid into it” and “you’re entitled” etc. etc., ad nauseum.

The very idea that all I want is for the gunvermin to leave me the hell alone is completely alien to all but a tiny minority of people. Makes me want to spew.

The biggest thing that keeps me from trying to discuss liberty, even with my more liberty-minded neighbors here in KY, is the fact that the ideals of liberty are so foreign to ALL these days (essentially as you said) that people only see everything in terms of red vs. blue; and the herculean task of trying to even nudge one into a liberty vs. tyranny mindset, is just lost on them, because they have been so conditioned to love their particular brands of tyranny- As long as it’s their brand of tyranny, they’re fine with it, and having it imposed on all.

Plus they’re sell-outs and hypocrites- like my neighbor, who swore he’d resist Bush’s National Animal ID System- but as soon as it was discovered that one would have to participate to receive the few grand a year in cattle subsidies he gets, he was one of the first to sign up.

Plus, it seems that all the conservative types who advocate some form of nebulous freedom, are always cop-suckers and mercenary supporters- and usually ex-mercenaries themselves. And there’s no stepping around those piles of BS, because they HAVE to “believe” that what they participated in was right and just and to “further freedom”, because if they stop believing that for a moment, they have to confront the fact that they acted as murderers and oppressors and thieves and kidnappers.

I’m a loner too. I’ve always been. I did have a friend who is a Libertarian- but he was a little too weird. He was the only person with whom I could have good Libertarian discussions- but it wasn’t worth it- I just couldn’t tolerate the guy.

Being a loner/hermit, I don’t really care about in-person fellowship (I don’t do churches, either)- but for me, the biggest thing in discovering youse[sic] guys, was just knowing that there are other people in the world who have come to the same conclusions I have; that there is some sanity- albeit in very small pockets; That others can see the workings of this world and their nefarious purposes; and that they desire to be free, and wish the same for all others.

Seriously, before the internet, I was beginning to think that I was the ONLY one who had figured these things out (I wasc a seeker of freedom from early childhood- about age 6)- I knew nothing of Rothbard nor anyone else, and could never find anyone who was even remotely on the same page as I.

There’s just something about seeing your own thoughts and observations confirmed by others who have come to those same conclusions independently….

I mean, it’s not as though we all got this from reading a common book, or going to some meetings. In most cases, I assume that everyone here has come to their understranding in various and unique ways- and we have all ended up in the same place. Not that truth needs validation of others…but it sure is neat when it does happen!

“You can’t even fight the local police department….so basically, any idea of fighting- even if it were for liberty, is really just self-sacrifice. Not an option.”

Only if you live an atomistic existence, and have no friends/family/neighbors, or any other wider network. In fact, tell that to the north Vietnamese, the Mujahideen, Taliban, etc. Those people never gave up, and never surrendered against what they rightly perceived as an invasion by an outside power. Superior tech and weapons didn’t mean shit against a people determined to drive the invaders from their land and liberate themselves.

There are over 400M guns in this country, and about 6T rounds of ammo in private hands. All government “men-at-arms” in this country, including the entire military establishment, and every cop, number at best 2.5M. They might achieve some early tactical victories, but they aren’t set up to dig in for the long haul, any more than the Germans were prepared against the Russian winter.

Also, as with the War of Northern Aggression, not everyone in our military establishment will be of one mind in a true Civil War situation. So it won’t be just some ragtag band of neighbors hastily thrown into the fight, with no real leadership – they will be led by people with a lot of military experience who know how to use the resources at hand to achieve wins. If only 10% of Americans could put to good use the lessons from the VietCong, the PTB would have a very hard time.

I’m 64, and a little long in the tooth for front-line soldiering. However I have a hunting rifle with a big scope that will shoot the ‘nads off an elk at 1500 yards. So perhaps I can still learn to be an urban sniper.

If the US government decides to declare war on its own people, it may not be as easy a coup as they think. And the rise of 3D printed guns makes it impossible to disarm the public. (Not that they could ever seize 400M guns to begin with)

If EVERYONE that has the 400 million firearms were of a mind to UNITE and use them as need be on a Government that had turned on them, the Government would already have lost. The only way the “Gubmint” can maintain control is in the MIND of the “general population” (and yes, knowing that a term used for the inmate population at large, I use it not entirely in jest). At times, like at Waco back in 1993, sudden and overwhelming force can be brought to bear against any local band of ‘miscreants’, and even if the whole exercise is tantamount to sheer murder (as Waco most certainly was), it can be easily palmed off by a (com)pliant and cooperative media as being “forced” to take action against “wackos”, “racists”, “terrorists”.

As in our own American revolution, there’s be a faction that would rise up, small at first, and ridiculed and marginalized in the beginning. As its numbers grow, efforts to suppress it would grow ever the more frantic and lawless, and the “Gubmint” would deny that the problem exists, until it saw itself losing credibility in the public mindset. Most folks would be on the sidelines, either disinterested at first or afraid of the consequences of involvement, until dire circumstances force them to choose sides. Either the nascent rebellion would be quickly crushed in infancy, or else, a cataclysmic series of events (like the destruction of two ‘Death Stars’, to use Star Wars as an example) would bring about its downfall, more due to abandonment, especially by the supplicants and bootlickers anxious to at least not be jailed or executed by the new regime.

A good read, though I disagree like hell with much of its pretext (namely, that it’s all to blame on the “dirty J-O-O-s” or that a massive planetwide act of racial genocide is somehow desirable) is the late Dr. William Pierce’s “Turner Diaries”. Of course, Pierce’s notion that somehow a rebel band could, with sympathizers from within, seize and, more important, make use of any of the USA’s nuclear arsenal is just sheer fantasy, let alone that he neglected an aspect of the “Nuclear Triad” that I’m quite familiar with..namely, the Navy’s own fleet of nuclear boats, which are currently 14 Ohio-Class SSBNs and about sixty Nuclear attack boats (SSNs) of the Los-Angeles and Virginia classes (I believe three of the LA class are slated to be stood down and being the decommission process). There are also four Ohio-Class boats that were converted to “SSGNs” (Guided missiles instead of ballistic) both for cost reasons, better use of USN assets, and to comply with current treaty limits as to ‘active’ strategic missile assets. Even our current 14 Ohio-class boats, down from the ’41 for Freedom’ that I remember, still have 14 x 24 x 8 (the last figure is number of warheads allowed by treaty per missile, the Trident II D5 SLBM can be possibly configured for up to 14 warheads, but decoys and other ‘penetration aids’ would limit this to 11 or 12, depending on the mission), or 2688 possible warheads delivered from our SSBNs…which can hit about 60% of potential worldwide targets from their home ports in Georgia or Washington state within the ADMITTED Trident II range! This is a convenient point which Dr. Pierce and many movies (like “Damnation Alley”, for example) of the time period in which he wrote “Turner” forget about nuclear war…including that even the most bellicose Soviet or Chinese general would have far more sense than to order a sudden, massive strike against US population centers and industrial regions, (A “countervalue” strike), knowing full well that even if it wildly succeeded, they would themselves face almost certain annihilation from what remained, especially the USN SSBNs.

FWIW, I would predict that if nukes are ever used in anger again (keep in mind that the USA is the only nation to ever do so, and WE used them against primarily civilians, albeit in locations with SOME military value, in order to terrorize their government into unconditional surrender), it will likely be at sea. As the Navy likes to say (but won’t publicly admit it), “Nukes don’t leave holes in the WATER”.

Of course, I’d rather fight an ever-oppressive nanny state and fend off the would-be “Evil Mr. Rogers” in the marketplace of ideas and politics while it’s still possible. And I think that it still is, but that time may soon be past if we continue to sit on our collective asses.

And nothing brings the masses together like a good war. Whether they love or hate the particular president of the moment, just tell ’em someone’s threatening their “freedom”, or “order needs to be restored”, people “need to be liberated”, and it matters not whose in charge, or if the enemy is half way across the world in Iraq or Iran, or in Louisiana (Katrina)…they’ll go and do what they’re commanded to do, without conscience or thought.

Our own relatives will likely even be among them. Heck, I don’t know if Blank Reg has some kind of a super special fambly or what, but even in my fambly, people’s attention spans are now so short due to TV, that you can’t even give them a short explanation of something.

Someone asks you if it’s going to rain (this just happened to me today!) and you tell them “Well, *they* say there’s only a 20% chance, but looking at the radar, I se….”

And they interrupt: “Just say yes or no; don’t go into the whole thing!”.

Everything has to be yes or no; black or white. There’s no room for information or explanation of even simple things. They don’t want the details; they don’t want to have to think, and consider the possibilities….and that’s just on simple things.

Anything remotely complex or controversial, forget it. They want to be told what to think, but “a trusted source” (We’re not trusted sources. We may’ve told them 30 years ago what would be coming today- and here it is…but they weren’t listening then, and they don’t remember…).

Nunz, the simple mindedness of the masses is indeed staggering. I too have relatives that cannot digest anything above a yes or no answer. And they can only parrot what they heard on fill-in-the-blank “news” show. Critical thinking is simply impossible for them.

Skunkz, it’s not even 11 AM yet, and it happened already! Someone ASKED me a question- so in wanting to give a proper answer, which could not be conveyed with a simple yes or know, I proceeded to give them the few details. Not some big long meandering diatribe- just a three-sentence response with the most basic facts…and halfway through, I get “Alright, alright…I don’t need to hear the whole thing!”.

They don’t want the facts. They just want someone else to digest it for them, and condense it into one word- even if one word can not convey the reality of the matter.

I can’t take it anymore. I do try and avoid any conversation with people who have a history of doing this- but lately it’s getting to be EVERYONE, and I’m to the point where when someone does that from now on, I think I’m just going to tell them to go to Hell. I can’t deal with brain-dead ignoramuses.

I’ve always been a gentleman too- but my patience is wearing very thin these days.

I could tolerate the occasional simpleton- but lately, it’s like we’re dealing with zombies, all the time.

It’s not so much that they’re stupid. That I could gladly handle, and either explain in such a way as to edumacate- like one does with a child- or just let it slide. But it’s that they don’t want to know.

And I’m not talking about political philosophies or the workings of the world here; I’m just speaking of common, matter-of-fact mundane day-t-day things.

“Did Bob’s motorcycle sell on Ebay?”

You can’t say “Yes”, because although the auction ended and it received bids, there’s no guarantee that the winner will make contact or pay.

You can’t say “No”, because technically “it sold”.

So just a quick synopsis of the situation (as above) for someone who is not familiar with selling on Ebay….but that is too much for them to handle!!!!

“Just a yes or no will do!”.

“Maybe”. 🙂

It’s all gone to hell since texting became the norm. Pretty soon we’ll be down to grunts instead of actual words.

The US government will likely use nuclear weapons against any major uprising. The only reason they haven’t used them against other countries is because every scenario they run ends with MAD. Bomb a few midwestern flyover cities and blame the “separatists” for revolting. Give plenty of warning of course, so that not only can any friends/family/”good guys” get away, but so later it could be claimed they were warned and therefore it was justified.

This too, was covered, though not convincingly, IMO, in “Tuner” (anyone who knows even a modicum of security procedures involving America’s nuclear arsenals, especially the concept of “Permissive Active Links”, would understand why capturing a nuke and actually being able to USE it are two different matters).

I agree that the US Government, would, if things got that dire, use nukes against its own people, in much the manner you describe. However, consider also why ISRAEL has missiles of INTERCONTINENTAL range in its arsenal? Considering that most of it’s ostensible Islamic enemies are well within IRBM range, why would Israel even bother with that considerable expense? Answer: Their so-called “Samson Option” includes Western capitals like ROME, as the late Moshe Dyan mentioned. I find it utterly ironic that the one fascist nation that wouldn’t cooperate with Hitler in gathering and exterminating Jews, namely Italy, in WWII, would have its capital targeted by ISRAEL as a threatening gesture in event the Jewish state faced annihilation.

Pierce’s “Turner” novel explains how this conundrum was ‘solved’ by the white, racist rebels that had seized Southern California, including Vandenburg AFB. Realizing that it was only a matter of time before the US military mobilized to re-take SoCal, and wouldn’t indeed hesitate to employ at least tactical nukes, they launched a pre-emptive strike at several targets in and around New York City, plus…MOSCOW and TEL AVIV. Once these missiles were on their way, using an agreed-upon phone link, they let the Pentagon know of it, leaving the US military with no option but to immediately follow with their own pre-emptive strike against the Soviet Union (the conflict takes place in 1993, which, in the real time line, the Soviet Union was no more), which ‘succeeds’, but not before the Soviets get off a somewhat ineffectual counter-strike, which, as envisioned by the thankfully fictional Gen. “Buck” Turgidson from “Dr Strangelove”, is “badly coordinated”. Nevertheless, the US has its hands full with the havoc wreaked by the Soviet counter-attack. Whenwhile, as the nuking of Tel Aviv and several other key targets in Israel by the USA rebel racists (again, HOW they’d acquired the codes AND the skills to direct a rather precise attack is incredulous), the Israeli military is paralyzed, and Israel is overrun by hordes of hostile Arabs whom, in their jihadist frenzy, take otherwise unbearable casualties in wiping out the Jewish state, with the “last throat cut within a week”, as the novel says. Of course…where is the US Navy, as in our time line, by late 1993 there were 11 Ohio-class SSBNs active, and 30 of the older generation of the “41 for Freedom” also in service? Nothing is explained as to the allegiances of the Navy Submarine Service and its officers and crews! That alone would be, in real life, the US Goverment’s “Ace in the Hole” against ANY perceived hostile threat!

Ready, those bastards probably won’t warn anyone (except their own agents, like they did at 9/11). They’d bomb a few cities, and then blame it on foreign or domestic “terrorists”, so they could use the event to further unite and scare the masses, who would run to them and do whatever they say for protection, and to “fight the enemy”.

The countires whom we attack are people united by a common religion; common culture and goals; common enemy (Us) etc.

WE, on the other hand, have “diversity”- and people ruled by propaganda, to the point where it’s hard to find two people who can agree on anything anymore- even in the same family- and especially on anything important.

We are a divided and conquered people; and unlike being united against a foreign power, most of our people support and defend “the government”- and will indeed fight whom THEY them to fight.

The people will not see it as the government against them. They will see it as THEMSELVES and THEIR government, against “terrorists” i.e. us. Your friends and neighbors and relatives will likely be the first ones to turn on you/turn you in.

Take a lesson from Nazi Germany- that is exactly the model that is being followed here.

Look at Cliven Bundy. Poor guy- he may not be out of the woods yet. After all of the sacrifice and wasted time and heartache, even if he is left alone from here forward, what has he got? Just the same thing the rest of us have- to continue to live in the police state until the next assault upon his freedom.

Look at the poor people in Afghanistan and Iraq, and so forth- Millions dead, over a decade or two, and what dlo they have? A country which is now controlled by us. Where’s the freedom they fought for? The freedom which they used to have, until we went there….

I can tell you how it’s gonna turn out, my friend. It’s not going to end well. It will not be an organized people against the government; it will be one group against another against another, with the government picking occasional sides/victims.

400 million guns my ass. Maybe if you count all the ones owned by the various government agencies. The majority of the population today in the US live in big cities and “metro areas”, and are disarmed. The few who are armed may have a .22 or a shotgun….a few AK’s or AR’s here and there. Hardly a match for the powerful, sophisticated artillery wielded by heavily trained and highly organized mercenary thugs with badges.

Plus, if anything happens on a large scale, mass communication/the internet will go away….and most people will believe what ever the TV and radio tell them (just like they do now) and DO what ever they tell them.

Fighting Hilter for the average citizen would have been easy compared to what we’re up against, so it ain’t gonna happen.

Lemme ask you a question: You see the SWAt tesm dragging your upstanding neighbor away, you feel compelled to fight for justice. Do you run out there with your 30.06? Maybe call some relatives and then go out there and point guns at them and make them release your neighbor? Of course not. The very same reasons you don’t do that, are the same reasons you will not be fighting them for any other reason.

Nunzio, I agree with you and I really want to leave. To do so. I really need to visit some other countries first before choosing one. My past several jobs petered out for one reason or another before I was eligible for a paid vacation. My last job with an extremely good OTR trucking company automatically paid me to work through my vacation. That was back when I was prepping to live on my rural homestead. The job I now have will almost certainly allow me to take a vacation once my year is up, but I doubt that it will be paid. There is a very good chance that I will spend that week off in Panama or South America, but that amount of time isn’t really sufficient to make any decisions. The best I could do is to do further research the following year or quit my job. In order for me to even accomplish that little amount in such a short time: I would have to subject myself to the TSA screening prior to flying there. I simply cannot move to either of those locations with the amount of money I now have. I have a lot of research and earning money to do before I leave.
I am pretty sure that a powerfully contributing reason for Eric to not take that plunge is because it would end the income he now makes. What car manufacturer would ship him a car to test drive if he were to move to South America? He also would need really good Internet, which would place him in the more urban areas closer to the local state thugs.

The fact that the “good places” are hard and time consuming to get to, is another fact, making the quick jaunt pretty much a no-go.

What I’m intending to do, is to just temporarily establish myself in a jumping-off place, after selling off everything here. I used to think that that place mught be in South or Central America- and I’m not ruling that out entirely- but probably more likely in Oceania (aren’t they at war with East Asia? 😉 )

The important thing, is just to be out of here. Away from the infrastructure and the chemtrails and the surveillance, etc. Who knows? One might even find the jumping-off point to be a decent place to settle.

But yes, it is near impossible to do much on a vacation. Even just moving from NY to KY- checking out different areas; finding a place that suited me and that I could afford, etc. it was very time consuming, and took multiple trips of a more than a week in duration- and that was for a place not 1000 miles away! And even that, I still basically just had to pick a place and hope for the best, because I couldn’t wait any longer, nor afford to keep making costly and time-consuming trips. Luckily, it worked out GREAT! Better than expected.

I think when we seek to do the right things for the right reasons, things tend to work in our favor.

Ah, yes….there is no way Eric could continue doing his car reviews from Patagonia or Tonga (Unless maybe they’d ship him the Gilligan’s Island car… :D) – It’s not like we’re just making a lateral move when we embark on something like this. We’re truly changing our lifestyle and environment. No more corporate-government infrastructure and all of the perks we’ve come to expect from it- but then, isn’t that infrastructure the very thing we seek to escape?

Me? I intend to get some land, and a modest Unabomber-style shack 😉 and live largely self-sufficiently- which will be a lot easier without that infrastructure and it’s taxes, etc.

It can be VERY cheap to live in these places. Local farmers (even in the more developed countries) bring their wares into town and sell them in shops or on the squares- fresh natural foods, for a fraction of what junk costs us here.

When I had moved to KY, I had intended to raise angora goats- but before I could do that, I ended up getting into Ebaying, and then being an internet sales manager for a friend’s bidness; in addition to raising some beef; doing bushogging, etc. Thing is, there are always ways to make money, especially in places where a little money goes a long way. We just have to understand that we’re not going to build a replica of what we have here- because we’ll be on our own- without the aforementioned infrastructure- which is what >Libertarianism is all about. Adapt to your surroundings and make the things you have control over the way you want (true freedom!)- and be glad to be able to be left alone to do that- and what more can we ask for?

Heck, I’d have no problem living in a hut, if such is suitable where I choose to go. In fact, i think it would be great! Definitely no F250’s or Excursions where I’m going. Maybe a bicycle and a dirt road…. (Hey, maybe we could buy one of them “child brides”- so by the time she’s old enough for her looks to deteriorate, we’ll be dead! 😉 )

I can imagine a day when all cars are automated, controlled by a centralized system. And so what does one do when one doesn’t care to be part of the “system”? Obviously, you don’t drive. You ride. Imagine splitting lanes while all those automated idiots are putzing along at 30 mph. And if the police come after you, how are they going to get around all those clovers? The motorcycle is the one place where you can truly be free. Perhaps that is why there is such an aggressive and never ending campaign to paint motorcycles as dangerous?

After years of covering this, watching it develop… I think your summary is exactly correct. And I think motorcycles will be banned – on saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaafety grounds, of course. Those who doubt it ought to remember that as recently as the ’80s, helmet laws were considered an affront to individual liberty, something that would never happen in America… one step comes after the last.

obnoxious ego maniacal look at me bikers with the loud pipes should be banned and their mouths crazy glued onto the pipes then the engine revved. 1000’s every weekend go by my house like an earth quake. they break federal law taking stock pipes off. they think they are tough cause their bike is loud

Well, that’s out of the blue! How loud is too loud? Does it have to be sustained loud? What about “loud” cars? And loud people? Like the ones who gabble loudly on dey sail fawns in coffee shops, for instance?

Why so much hatred toward loud motorcycles? I don’t know where anyone could live that you would have thousands of super loud bikes going by your house on a regular basis? And if you really live in such a place, maybe it is time to move? There aren’t THAT many loud bikes in the country that you can’t find a nice quiet spot where you can live peacefully. Btw, some people like loud bikes because they believe that it makes them more noticeable on the road and therefore less likely to get hit.

Yeah, Bobster- all it takes is one inconsiderate prick, even in the country, to destroy the peace and tranquility.

Everyone here where I live has some acreage- but up until recently, there was a guy who lived in the area, and from April to November, he’d be up and down this road 100 friggin times a day with his super-loud Hardly-Ableson.

I doubt the damn thing could go much over 60MPH, but I guess he tried to compensate by making lots of noise- and I mean this thing was LOUD!

I was tempted to walk down to the road and wait there and throw a stick in his spokes the next time he came by. Luckily, he seems to have either moved, or gotten squished, as I haven’t seen/heard him this year. Good riddance!

Well, I find myself quite annoyed at many a motorcyclist that “splits lanes”, as I’ve had a few driver’s side mirrors clipped by these idiots. When stalled in traffic, I check my side mirrors religiously for that very reason. Once traffic is moving, they’re SUPPOSED to get into a lane (which in CA and most states, they can ride two abreast in one lane) and act as if they’re a car themselves (and hopefully prudent motorists give them their ‘space’), not weave in and out of traffic!

This is an example of how “Clovers”, statists, and other would-be ‘do-gooders’ sell their agenda of control over the “general population”…examples are made of random acts of stupidity. The trouble with ‘freedom’ is that it works in reality only on those that are inherently self-disciplined and don’t need any laws to show their fellow (wo)man some common fucking courtesy, and don’t need to be goaded by a bellicose, psychotic Marine “Bird” Colonel into saying “please”!

Automated cars will bring back the days of being stranded because tires and everything else sucked. Why? The sensors and such will crap out. I read an article on the test cars and it takes dedicated labor to keep the sensors clean and happy. But even lets say that can be worked out I don’t think people are going to like the car moving on to the shoulder and shutting down in the middle of a snow storm because sensors have become coated in now hardened slush. Or even the kind that is still slushy.

Oh God, you just made me think of these turds driving in Houston. We already have dead people behind the wheel driving their prius into 6 feet of underpass flood water and claiming they didnt see it coming. I’m sure these pieces of crap robots will work just fine with Houston’s flash flood prone low lying areas. As a matter of fact, how water proof are these things compared to ICE? As long as you are snorkling your suv or truck they can drive through water. Curious to know what will happen to these electro vehicles.

Kyla is holding out hope that her parents will subsidize her rides. Even if she keeps up her pace of using the car to go to school and work at a burger chain and parties with her friends, the Jacksons all agree that the Waymo is safer than teenage driving—as well as cheaper than owning a car and paying for insurance.

The question then is whether Kyla will get her license at all. She’s in no rush, and her peers seem open to an alternative: “A lot of my friends are like, ‘Oh my gosh, I wish I had a Waymo.’”

All the upside is pretty compelling, especially considering the various banned substances that might be worth consuming if you know there’s no potential for life ending consequences. But teenage kids have no idea what freedom really means anymore. When I see all the structured activities my nephews have, I figure they might as well go to work. They’re doing a great job of keeping their grandparents entertained.

As a guy who puts on at least 100 miles/day in the upper midwest, I would love an autopilot system for long, slow, empty stretches of road. Unfortunately thats not what these scumbag commies want.
Of course an better solution would be to get rid of the insane, dangerous, and wasteful speed limits in the same areas.

Well a true autopilot like what is on commercial aircraft, would be the idea. But that’s expensive, complicated and hard. And they still rely on some government run infrastructure, even before GPS, in the form of RDF beacons. However they are also 100% under the control of the pilot, who is responsible for the operation of the aircraft. To have another party take control of the autopilot opens the door to a major liability, even in controlled airspace.

Self-Driving cars (not autopilots) are being sold to the public much like a town car or taxi service. “Leave the driving to us” is the selling point. That’s a very different animal from what an autopilot is, even advanced devices that can handle takeoff and landing. That the tech has already reached the point it has, where under ideal conditions it can complete the mission, is pretty fantastic. A true autopilot like system that will work in most situations is already feasible at a mostly affordable price, but it still would require driver situational awareness. Pilots don’t check their email when they’re in the cockpit. Driving is simple enough to not require as much mental discipline as piloting an airplane, so the temptation for distraction is very high. So it will have to be a all-or-nothing technology. And to get there quickly, which is what the venture capital firms want, will require a lot of shortcuts. Like controlled roadspace. Which will require a lot of new clearly defined regulations so that the programmers can have a requirements punch list. All of the intuitive things we already understand will need to be programmed into the system. And there are probably millions of those things. When, exactly, should you yield? What the heck is yielding anyway? is it coming to a stop if there’s traffic? Or is it slowing down? By how much? Is yielding to pedestrians somehow different than yielding when entering a highway? We just sort of understand these things. The so-called machine learning systems can’t even figure out that a red octagonal sign with a protest sticker slapped on is still a stop sign. Because that’s hard for machines. But hard coding a 4 way stop intersection into a database is pretty easy, just gather up all the data.

Teens no longer need to go anywhere physically, like the corner drugstore, malt shop, drive-in, arcade, or mall to hang out. They do that on social media. That’s because it’s one of the few places where they’re really free of adult supervision and control. (Though that’s going away fast.)

A fast or flashy car, or any car for that matter, is no longer considered a status symbol among teens. In fact, except for cars like the Prius, they’re considered blights on the environment. Teenage boys today get their status from the latest smartphone, tablet, or gaming systems.

The money factor. Driving is so expensive that many teens simply can’t afford it, what with the rising cost of everything, especially college.

The time factor. Today’s teens are so over scheduled that they don’t have time to learn how to drive, work a part time job/mow lawns/babysit, let alone work on their cars.

The belief that driving will become obsolete. In a world soon to be dominated by Uber and autonomous vehicles, why bother?

The plain over protectiveness of parents. If kids need helmets for everything except picking their noses, letting them drive is out of the question.

What’s sad is that both the delay in the maturation of our young people today (hell, it’s more common for young adults to remain in their parent’s home into their THIRTIES, for Chrissakes!) and the ever progression of the modern automobiles to being unfixable and downright unmaintainable by the average kid with a set of hand tools and a dwell meter and timing light has greatly “pussified” the average American young male, particular the whites! No wonder so many young white girls go for black guys, at least THEY, in they “Thugz” culture, exude a brutal form of masculinity!

Tinkering with an old heap is what helps a young man build a skill set of practical mechanical knowledge that goes with him into adulthood even if he doesn’t become an auto mechanic. Of course, it helps that their FATHERS have them working all along with various projects around the house and in keeping the “Family Truckster” alive, especially from the point a tyke can hold a goddamned flashlight! I was fully capable of basic auto maintenance like oil changes, checking and/or replacing points, timing an engine, changing spark plugs, coolant and transmission fluid changes, and so on, when I was THIRTEEN. Little wonder that at nearly sixty I have degrees in Mechanical and Nuclear Engineering and decades of professional experience, and STILL perform my own maintenance as I can do it QUICKER than waiting at “Jiffy Lube!”. Remember also when a discussion among young men of “Trannies” was about Torqueflites, Turbo-Hydro 350s and 400s, Ford C4s and C6s, and Borg-Warner units, instead of the mish-mash of perverted freaks out there? Shit, what HAPPENED to this country?

Don’t know if you follow Jordan Peterson, but I’ve heard him saying in a number of videos that one of the reasons for the Soviet Union falling apart was the increase in car ownership and the individual freedom it made people feel, and the deep consequences of that……. I guess if you want to re introduce the Soviet Union a logical thing to do is get rid of the car….

Thanks for the kind words, as always! And, yes, I follow JP. He’s brilliant and devastating; my kind of people!

On the rest: Controlling mobility is essential if you intend to control people; free coming and goings cannot be allowed. It is no accident that they – the people who are the government – have been erecting internal checkpoints, established a de facto internal passport and are pushing mightily for automated (i.e., controlled by them) cars.

Bryce, no need for a physical gulag or concentration camp to drive to when TPTB have already built psychological gulags around people’s minds via political correctness, media manipulation, government indoctrination centers (skools), etc.

This dovetails perfectly with that other unspoken yet impending technofuckery – car subscriptions. You subscribe to Cadillac, for instance, and you can just go get whatever model you want whenever you want because you make a monthly “subscription” payment that includes insurance and gas/voltage and everything, and includes a certain range of models and trim levels according to how much you pay. That’s how you can have this automated shit – the cars get “updated” every time they’re turned in from a weekender to the beach. Clover paradise and OS updates all in one “convenient and affordable monthly fee”.
Fuckers.

Even the wording gets corrupted. We have “autonomous” cars now. The ones we ourselves are driving. We can go just about anywhere with them.

The proper word for “self driving” cars are “automated” cars. You won’t have nearly the choices on where to go with them. Especially if you don’t own it, which is also very likely in the future. Yet another way to control us, by taking our ownership of things.

So when talking with people about these vehicles, do get the wording right, and correct your friends wording of it.

Of course, what exists now in the area of self driving cars are more properly called self crashing cars. Some of the supposedly human controlled cars actively interfere with the drivers. This really points up, as eric says, that the goal is the elimination of cars, period.

I’m glad to see that someone else grasps this “word fuckery” that the media and govt. employ. What kills me is all of the shitheads that just jump on the bandwagon using the latest “by-word”, with many of them knowing the difference. It’s just further proof that for the vast majority of the public, their lips are flapping long before their brain ever engages, which has recently become next to never. This is the product of the mindless grade school education system we have that indoctrinates rather than educates, and colleges and doing now too! All of this is intentional on the part of the “deciders” that call themselves “public servants”, as well. Brain-dead bureaucrats resent anyone and everyone with and intellect and critical thinking abilities, and will do whatever they can to swat you down.

Oh, that’s a good one…”Word FUCKERY”. Very much so done by “Gubmint” entities, hell, goes back to Orwell’s 1984 and the statist “Doublespeak”.

For example, a cop or probation officer will speak of “Violating” a probationer or parolee when investigating possible violations of probation and/or parole on a convict’s part, never mind their pre-disposition to “violate” the citizenry they’re supposed to “protect and serve”, since NO ONE is “innocent” in their views, only someone they haven’t been able to pin charges upon…YET. Even in a lighter note, when you have a dispute with a merchant (like refusing the receipt check at “Walley World”), they will “trespass” you (give you a notice to not re-enter the premises of the store or restaurant on pain of a charge of ‘trespassing’). Cops, in their self-styled machismo, especially the ones that “wear their ovaries on the outside”, like to speak of their work in terms of “DOING” someone, not unlike a literal act of rape.

I never “got” the objection to the Walmart receipt check thing. You’re in someone’s business (private property). It’s a big place. Are they just supposed to let everyone walk out with all sorts of things, and just assume that they are paid for? (Especially large and or expensive items that aren’t bagged).

It’s not quite the same as government stopping you in a public place and scrutinizing you just for the heck of it. It’s a property owner looking out for their own interests.

Imagine if a business owner couldn’t do that? Imagine if you owned a large store, and you couldn’t just block all of the exits by having the check-outs positioned in such a way so that every person would have to go through the check-out line just to get out of the store.

What do you think would happen if you observed people just walking out with with stuff, willy-nilly, and you didn’t have the ability to determine if they paid for the stuff, and were just picking it up and walking out with it?

Our option is just to not deal with big impersonal stores like that if we are offended by the logistics which they have to implement. Of course, we’d have to pay more for exercising our choice, but isn’t that the way it should be?

I agree they have a right to check receipts – but I find the practice despicable. It’s another of the small degradations which – cumulatively – have made this country effectively a prison. It is one thing to ask a suspicious person – someone whom the store has reason to suspect of shoplifting – to demonstrate that he bought what he has. It is another to treat every customer as a presumptive shoplifter. To make them prove they didn’t steal anything. Absent any reason to suspect they may have.

I don’t tolerate it as regards myself.

I continue waking out of the store with my things. So far, I have not been challenged – perhaps because I am a fairly big guy and perhaps because I radiate anger over this. If I am ever confronted I will tell them the things I have are now mine – I bought them – they no longer have any right to inspect my things. If they lay hands on me, then I will defend myself.

One can still do this – legally – because these are just store geeks and not official “heroes.” They can ask for receipts all they like. I am not giving them the time of day.

“It is one thing to ask a suspicious person – someone whom the store has reason to suspect of shoplifting – to demonstrate that he bought what he has. It is another to treat every customer as a presumptive shoplifter.”

I suspect that the viciousness of the perpetually aggrieved plays a large role in this new, degrading annoyance. After all, unless they “treat every customer as a presumptive shoplifter,” they will certainly be sued by some “oppressed” advocate shyster eventually. So, as Nunzio points out, they seem to have three choices: treat customers decently and expect employees to use common sense and discretion, treat every customer badly and discourage any exercise of common sense and discretion, or eliminate security entirely.

It is the self described “oppressed” who actually enjoy the most privilege in our current society. Everyone bends over backwards to avoid “offending” these petulant, self absorbed narcissists.

Eric, I guess you don’t use the Sam’s warehouse in Roanoke or Lynchburg. Sam’s has always checked receipts, ever since I’ve been a member (maybe 25 years) and I’ve never found it offensive. Maybe there’s mention of it in the membership agreement, but I’ve never checked.

I don’t view it as treating the members like shoplifters, but I guess some people see it that way. There’s room for all views on the subject, I suppose.

I believe that Sam’s and Costco DO have it as part of the membership agreement, and there is prominent notice at the entrance/exit to the store. Of course, IF you refuse, they can’t legally stop you or detain you or grab YOUR property. However, they can and likely will revoke your membership immediately, and refuse to refund the unused balance, because you knowingly violated the agreement. Folks that patronize these membership stores know this and agree to the policy in advance, which is also universally applied. Again, all voluntary there, so no objection at all.

In the case of a retailer like WalMart that does it SOMETIMES and at SOME locations but not others, IMO, it’s just asking for trouble and very bad customer relations. Hell, if the locals are that much into thievery, close the goddamned store!

I agree with you Douglas. It really pisses me off when a Walmart clerk asks to see my receipt! Look up toward the ceiling at any Walmart and most other large retailers, and you will see surveillance cameras mounted every x number of yards apart! They have NO good reason to be asking to see customer receipts! What also pisses me off is when I exit a door and an alarm goes off because a clerk didn’t properly deactivate the chip on something I bought! When I hear that alarm, I consider it to be publicly calling me a thief, and that really offends me because I have far higher morals than most people do. I am a genuine anarchist, after all!

The argument that it is necessary to treat everyone as a presumptive thief in order to mollify the shrieks of Perpetually Aggrieved People does not fly with me. I refuse to accept being diminished because of other people’s actions.

It is of a piece with the TSA and security theater. They don’t want to offend people who might actually fit a profile or give good cause to suspect them of something… so they treat old ladies and kids and everyone in between as a presumptive terrorist.

But Eric, look at the people in most Walmart. MOST of them look suspicious!

(@ Brian, too) It’s kind of pointless to complain about this, since we CHOOSE to shop at such stores, even though we are well aware of their practices. If we find those practices odious….we should just shop elsewhere.

Let’s face it: If they didn’t check receipts, at leasty half of the people who shop there would put bulky (non-baggable) items in/under their cart and not pay for them. And not just members of the free-shit army. Everyone is of the entitlement mentality today, thanks to Uncle. You’d have everyone from senior citizens to millionaires making off with free stuff all day long.

Heck, I have a client who is worth millions, and I guarantee you, if he thought he could easily get away without paying for something, he’d do it. (This is a guy who buys a cheapo power tool at Walmart, uses it, and then returns it [a.k.a. Walmart rentals!] and who has bought things at a sale price and without sales tax at a Walmart in one state, and then returned it, without receipt, to a Walmart in a sales-tax state, and got credit for that state’s sales tax, plus the full non-sale price of the item! -These are the kinds of people they have to deal with).

It’s kinda like knee-grows complaining that whites are always looking suspiciously at them. Is that the fault of us whites, or the fault of the other 97% of jigs who perpetrate negative behavior, which occasions that attitude?

EHhhhhhhh……..I do know what you mean about such practices being demeaning and all- and on a few occasions in the past, I’ve even done as you have, and walked right past the receipt checker. But I’ve reconsidered after thinking about it, and come to the conclusion that I mentioned in my earlier post on the subject.

I.e. basically, if we don’t like such treatment, we shouldn’t shop at that type of store. If it were the LAW that they HAD to check; or that we HAD to submit, that would be a different matter- but this is purely voluntary- and as mentioned earlier, I see no other way for them to protect themselves against intentional thieves, or even people who may’ve put something under the cart, and just forgot to pay for it.

Really, what else can they do? I was also going to say what Jeremy already said. They can’t “profile” and just check *suspicious* people, or else they’d be accused of “racial profiling”, or of discriminating against people who look poor, etc., and would wind up being sued every day of the week.

So it’s either suffer big losses by not checking- in which case they lose a lot of money, and the prices go up to compensate for those losses….or just ask to see the receipt.

I mean, it’s not as if they’re singling-out just certain people and accusing them. They do it routinely (when they do it) to ANYONE who has an unbagged, or large and or expensive item. It’s not like they’re saying “We think YOU’RE a suspicious person, and believe that you stole something, and are singling you out”- and as if you are suffering embarrassment for being singled out, and people are laughing and pointing at you. It’s just routine business.

Just for good measure though, i do sometimes like to make the checkers feel ridiculous. Few weeks ago, I’m pushing a cart with >$200 worth of stuff, including a 2.5 gallon jug of Rotella; a 5 qt. jug of Mobil One 15W50 full synthetic (I use it as hydraulic fluid), a $9 can of mixed nuts, etc. etc., and what does the checker look for on the receipt? The $19 bag of cat food I had under the cart! 😀

I laughed, and said: “Do they have a big problem with people stealing cat food?”- I forget what the old lady said, but she laughed and was pleasant, and I guess we both made the best of the situation.

The issue with the WalMart receipt check is that it’s an affront to my dignity. I just made a legal transaction at the checkout counter, exchanging consideration (e.g., money) for goods, which are now MY property. It’s not my fault if WalMart choose to lay out the store such that there’s a considerable area between the main checkout line and the exits/entrances. I don’t have a goddamned thing to “prove”, and absent a normal moral duty to assist a fellow citizen when a crime is perpetrated again him (for this purpose, the WalMart corporation is indeed a ‘person’ with the same equal protection under the law that we’re supposed to all enjoy) by reporting a crime in progress (e.g. I saw someone steal). WalMart can ASK me to have the receipt and MY goods to verify that the purchase is accurate when I exit the store, hell, they can also ASK for me to sing “zippity-do-dah” on my way out, and I have as much legal obligation to submit to the receipt check as I do to (badly) sing that Disney song from the now ‘retired’ animated movie “Song of the South”.

Where this gets sticky is when WM personnel intimidate and/or detain, and at times have assaulted and battered their customers, and ROBBED their customer of what’s now THEIR property (yep, grabbing someone’s property from them is ROBBERY, and it’s always a FELONY, regardless of the value of the property in question). Even worse, at times off-duty LEOs work security at WalMarts, and misuse their office and legal powers to bully and intimidate those that object to this practice. Or, if the police are summoned, they will treat YOU as the ‘guilty’ party for objecting to this practice and simply attempting to leave PEACEFULLY with YOUR property!

Even WM’s own policies state that the receipt check is VOLUNTARY, and that the door greeters and Loss Prevention are NOT to detain them or call out to them, but merely call the Police IF they’ve witnessed evidence of a crime, which the receipt check refusal is NOT. Neither is it even considered reasonable suspicion of shoplifting, so if a cop arrests you for the mere refusal to ‘submit’, you may well have a case to seek damages for false arrest. Of course, as with ANY encounter that could get contentious and potentially go again you, record, Record, RECORD the event!

I agree completely that WalMart, being a private business, has the right to refuse service to anyone, and to ban those that won’t ‘submit’. Which would seem counter to what a major discount retailer would want in its business model. I can think of ways that WalMart can rectify this problem and get folks to ‘submit’, there are ways to ‘incentive’ it positively (like offer promotions and discounts for those that volunteer) rather than bully their customers and treat them like garbage. And it seems to vary from time to time and location. My daughter works at a WalMart in Utah and she says that her store NEVER checks receipts, not even on “Black Friday”!

What baffles me is why anyone who has the ability to drive would surrender to being forced to ride (not “drive”) these automated vehicles.

I didn’t grow up with a particularly libertarian upbringing. I simply use my brain and life experience to contemplate incorporating this technology as it would be implemented vis-a-vis my lifestyle and interests. My conclusion, of course, leads me to strongly disagree with anyone who advocates the implementation of automated vehicles.

I could understand some people wanting the option to use them, but my life experience leads me to conclude that the government would never allow regular driver-controlled vehicles when the “option” exists to use automated vehicles. Thanks but no thanks!

Not everyone likes driving. Some find it boring, some, like my fiancee, can barely drive anywhere without panic attacks. I do about 90% of the driving in our household because of that, even though my opposite-of-snails-pace-clovery-driving scares her easily.

like anything to do with fractional slavery, aka government, nice people with good intentions and horrendous unexamined beliefs can vote us into increasing servitude.

Yes, I know. My ex-wife was like that. If I ever get together with another woman, she will not be like that. Else I’m not getting together with her!

I do understand that some people dislike driving. They ought therefore to avoid it. I do not not crowds and traffic – so I avoid them. I don’t impose my phobias/dislikes on others or hobble them because of me.

I try not to hate technology – but there is truth in the argument that technology enables those who would take away our liberty, whatever’s left of it. Whether intentionally or not is irrelevant. Thirty years ago, much of the awfulness of today would have been impossible from a purely technological point of view.

of course on the flip side it has never been easier to expose government corruption and the same camera they use to watch us are used to watch them.
I guess it will be interesting to see what happens when or if the people ever decide to stand up to it. considering how much popular support Julian Assange is getting right now I am not getting my hopes up.

I suspect that part of the problem is… how to organize some kind of effective resistance. We, as individuals, are just that… individuals. Peppered around the country, but not concentrated anywhere. The Free State Project had the right idea, but it failed in its execution because they could not excise Clovers within – and coming from without. What is needed is something akin to a personal hydrogen bomb – a way to make the application of external coercion much to costly to even consider attempting.

Every organized resistance gets co-opted and taken over by the overlords if it shows even a hint of a threat to the status quo, the Tea Party and Occupy movement being prime examples. You are correct about the way forward. It has to be decentralized, but to make the application of external coercion much too costly requires people who have courage. I’d like to think I’m that sort of person, but I’ve yet to stand up.

Griz, the best way to stand up is to drop out. And the cornerstone of dropping out is recognizing the true nature of the problem which you obviously understand going by your comments. The fact that you see the problem and are willing to engage in conversation about it means you are already on the right path to standing up. Keep reading and posting your thoughts not just on this site but any and all sites you can (until you eventually get banned for posting arguments that are too strong to be countered by false ideallologies. Then wear your ban as a badge of honor.). IOW know the truth and spread it.

Technology isn’t the problem, it’s the regulation of technology that is at issue. And who has that power. If it is the purchaser of the item, hey, no problem.

Driving is a “privilege” not a right. That’s always waved around any time there’s a new rule. You have no right to drive, even though you have a right to own a vehicle, you have a right to fill it with fuel and if you wish you can drive it on private property. But if you want it on Uncle’s roads you have to be privileged. So of course if self-driving vehicles are going to be granted the privilege to travel on Uncle’s roads they’re going to have to follow the rules. Not the existing rules, understand, but all the new rules that attempt to correct all the “loopholes” in the old rules.

The “Driving is a privilege not a right” is yet another slogan of the repeaters. People who repeat what teachers, TV, government, and other approved authorities told them when someone says or writes something that doesn’t fit their conditioning.

Instead of arguing with them I explain to them what a privilege is. This seems to have some effect. I lay out that a privilege is at the whim of those granting it. That they may place any condition they want on it. I say if that’s how they want it, if they want to be forever the teenager asking mom to borrow the car then it’s a privilege otherwise it’s not. Basically I set out the logic that using a common conveyance on the public cannot be privilege.

Now there is a conflict in their programming and that’s where it ends.

Of course that’s where it ends. Because most people are perfectly happy with the status quo. They even accept that the only reason the United States is so successful a country is because of the (alleged) light touch regulation we have. Even the most hard core conservative accepts the idea that our central government needs more power and control. And that the only problem with government power is who’s hand is on the levers.

They see the US as the Goldilocks nation-state. We see it as a failed experiment. If I could I’d probably try to get citizenship in Switzerland. The Swiss seem to be far more in line with Libertarian views, although they’re not perfect either. At least they try to keep power decentralized and follow the NAP when it comes to war.

Re: Exes, wives and/or otherwise: I take the character “E” from “The Incredibles” view (though a diminutive and at least advanced middle aged, e.g. 60ish, female, voiced by Brad Bird)…”I never look back, Dahling, it distracts from the NOW!”

Supposedly there’s evidence that there is a planet in the habitable zone of the nearest star, Proxima Centuari. If indeed it can sustain our form of life, and we’ve a means to get there, count me in. I’m not saying that 4.25 light years, or about 26 TRILLION miles, is enough distance between myself and my ex-wife, heretofore to be referred to as “bitch”, but it’s a good start!

Hence the attraction of restoring a 52 y.o. Plymouth Fury. A Canadian built “Series A” 318 CID “Polyspherical” engine with SOLID lifters (I control the engine’s ‘breathing’)…points (I control the ignition timing), rebuildable in ways Mopar never envisioned (like line-boring the main saddles to accommodate a 360 LA engine crank, and boring out the cylinders from the original 3.910″ to 4.000″, which that block has more than enough ‘meat’ to do, rendering it a 360 “Poly” engine, which, with the 0.27″ greater stroke and a little block decking and head milling, will give it a 10.5:1 compression ratio…with even the original Stromberg 2 bbl, stock manifold and exhaust headers, will still put out about 310 HP on 92 octane pump gas).

The car will be a simple ‘cruiser’, and yes, it will drink plenty of gas, so it’ll take Dad’s wallet to keep it’s ‘thirst’ sated! But damn, that beast will be comfortable..and…it will DO what we want it to do, and go where we want it to go, as FAST as we reasonably dare! It will hearken back to the days when men could be ‘men’ and not deal with a heap of gays, “soy boys”, and Feminazi hags!

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Eric started out writing about cars for mainstream media outlets such as The Washington Times, Detroit News and Free Press, Investors Business Daily, The American Spectator, National Review, The Chicago Tribune and Wall Street Journal.