Oh, like I said, death is nothing to be afraid of. It's a natural recycling of matter is all.

If you consider suicide all the time (and I have considered it from time to time and will choose it should my life end up where it's not worth living anymore) then there is something wrong with what you are doing with your life.

If life is not worth living, change it. Change your habits or your beliefs or your location or whatever. Change is a catalyst for energy, and energy is a catalyst for making the best of life. Just saying.

Re fluff - no it's not fluff. Recycling is what nature does, and we are part of nature. Denying that it is possible that "that which powers us" gets recycled is just maintaining the status quo. And in this case, it is supporting religion since as long as the gap is there, gods will fill it. It needs to be explored and settled, one way or another, once and for all.

Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man

Life is like the whitecaps breathed upon the ocean by the restless wind and the yearning of Luna. It is chaos and complexity, desire and need. Yet the wind will tire and the sun shall rise, and all shall become still once more.

It's that dang Gwynnies. I ain't never gonna love nuttin like I love her.

(12-05-2012 07:05 AM)houseofcantor Wrote: But I cannot help but consider this stuff to be egotistical self-absorption. One of the reasons for my returning to the east was to hang with my family to see if I had gone too far in the other direction, but I feel even more suicidal and ready to end.

Me too, Brother, but it's cyclical and like every other feeling, it passes.

(12-05-2012 10:31 AM)Dom Wrote: Oh, like I said, death is nothing to be afraid of. It's a natural recycling of matter is all.

If you consider suicide all the time (and I have considered it from time to time and will choose it should my life end up where it's not worth living anymore) then there is something wrong with what you are doing with your life.

Not all the time, Dom. ... just as necessary, on an as needed basis.

Just because I'm an atheist doesn't mean there aren't people who should pray for their sorry ass to be saved.

If you believe that our flesh is a vehicle...... that the "soul" can be considered the "energy/fuel" that gives it animation/life then is this limited to humans???

Surely everything else that is considered alive (as in it reproduces and will at some point cease to exist) should be considered as an equal and the only differences that could be used to term "seperation" would be the vehicles (bodies) that we use to observe.

In this flesh vehicle things seem real....... things are solid and you cannot push your hand through a solid brick wall...... you are limited to the very senses that you use to observe....... so when released from this flesh vehicle (death) then I wonder at how things could be percieved, when you are no longer "limited" to a nervous system nor this vibration we exist within???

Your flesh vehicle is made up of billions of cells that renew within certain timespans....... they are in there own right unique but they make up the "whole" which is you....... If I push the boundaries on my viewpoint further beyond myself I get to consider that this planet is a cell and that it makes up the "whole" universe.

I dont believe in time........ so I dont actually believe in death

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

(13-05-2012 12:18 PM)bemore Wrote: I have no answers....... only questions

If you believe that our flesh is a vehicle...... that the "soul" can be considered the "energy/fuel" that gives it animation/life then is this limited to humans???

Surely everything else that is considered alive (as in it reproduces and will at some point cease to exist) should be considered as an equal and the only differences that could be used to term "seperation" would be the vehicles (bodies) that we use to observe.

In this flesh vehicle things seem real....... things are solid and you cannot push your hand through a solid brick wall...... you are limited to the very senses that you use to observe....... so when released from this flesh vehicle (death) then I wonder at how things could be percieved, when you are no longer "limited" to a nervous system nor this vibration we exist within???

Your flesh vehicle is made up of billions of cells that renew within certain timespans....... they are in there own right unique but they make up the "whole" which is you....... If I push the boundaries on my viewpoint further beyond myself I get to consider that this planet is a cell and that it makes up the "whole" universe.

I dont believe in time........ so I dont actually believe in death

In my thinking it would apply to all life. Plants and animals alike (and we are animals after all). And I don't really think anything is perceived after death. But who knows. I really don't think that "that which powers us" necessarily stays one unit, it may disperse and power several newly born life forms. Or it may form a "pool" that new life forms can draw from.

I think of it more like electricity, which moves along and has no idea what it will power. Basically, IF there is something there, it stands to reason that it is being recycled like everything else in nature.

And the thought that this planet is one of the "cells" making up the universe has crossed my mind too. Or even that the universe is just one cell in something much bigger. Who says that what we have been able to explore is all there is? Maybe we are nothing but tiny microbes in a large system. But we digress.

Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man

(13-05-2012 01:28 PM)Dom Wrote: In my thinking it would apply to all life. Plants and animals alike (and we are animals after all). And I don't really think anything is perceived after death. But who knows. I really don't think that "that which powers us" necessarily stays one unit, it may disperse and power several newly born life forms. Or it may form a "pool" that new life forms can draw from.

I think of it more like electricity, which moves along and has no idea what it will power. Basically, IF there is something there, it stands to reason that it is being recycled like everything else in nature.

And the thought that this planet is one of the "cells" making up the universe has crossed my mind too. Or even that the universe is just one cell in something much bigger. Who says that what we have been able to explore is all there is? Maybe we are nothing but tiny microbes in a large system. But we digress.

Hey Dom. I'd like to offer sympathy. I hope we will be allowed to pursue these ideas, even though we don't have evidence readily in our hands.

Yes, I would agree there is a kind of electricity that courses through all things - and specially life, most of all, the higher, complex life. The meditation I perform is called "transmission meditation" and it is focused on receiving and passing on the energy. I am aware of it. I feel it within, in days after meditation as an afterglow besides the normal energy levels.

I can not offer you evidence, but I have drawn the pictures of what I feel besides the body of meat and bones that we all know we have. The first picture is the layout of my energy body, as I feel it. The blue corona around the silhouette and at mouth signifies the sensitive range of energy, the hands and mouth are especially sensitive. The grey mass around is a tangible substance I believe to be a plasma of dark matter. It can be easily shaped by mere intention (see the pyramid shape in the hand) and it is a good conductor for the energy. But when it is further away from me, I feel it less (I drew it fading away), though I am still able to move it (by what I believe to be another oval body of energy, outlined as oval shape). Please also notice the circles of energy vortexes, the top ones I feel the most, so I drew them in the silhouette. Two forehead channels are also visible.
The second picture is the profile of my head with vortexes, centers and conduits of energy as I feel them to be active. Some over the course of the day, some in times of meditation, some rarely. The conduits on left and right side of forehead/neck give me most trouble, they can hurt quite a lot sometimes. However, the active vortex below, in the area of heart gives a nice, warm glow of love and sympathy when it's active and the neck vortex isn't unpleasant either, it's quite tingly.

It is interesting to live like that. Suddenly my avatar picture makes sense, eh? I'm glad I didn't post any photograph of mine, knowing the internets, they would readily produce some colourful parodies

For years I have read from many sources that there is a higher aspect of electricity than just a flow of electrons or ions. I have read of devices that open a switch, yet there is an alloy that delays the flow of electrons for a microsecond, and in the end of that microsecond the switch is closed again. Yet in that microsecond a capacitor on the other side of the switch is filled with a dose of power. Other times, I have read how Nikola Tesla created a transmission of energy through one wire only, by making a long, narrow coil. Another device of his created a sparking device, where the arc was extinguished extremely, imperceptibly fast by a strong magnetic field. This device made the higher aspect of electricity visible. It made a white, cold lightning. From this it got its name, "cold electricity" or "radiant energy".

When a generator turns by steam, the electricity is not generated from the kinetic energy or heat. The turn of a dynamo creates a dip in the local vacuum and the surrounding "radiant energy" rushes in to fill that dip, creating what we call electric current in the process, and filling that dip which we expended our energy to create.

It is said that the wires do not really transmit energy within, they allow passage of the "radiant energy" on the outside, although the flow drags the electrons or ions along the stream. And so it can be inferred, that our nerves also operate by the layer of "radiant energy" enveloping them. It forms a field that permeates our whole body and copies it perfectly. Or rather, our growth of cells copies this body of energy. And upon death, this body gets detached. It does not get accounted for as our body's weight or chemical energy, I'd say it is a part of the environment so much that the "soul weighing" experiments give only microscopic results. However, it gives a bit of hope that we are more than meat and heat.

I am sorry to offend anyone's rationality, I only say and draw what I perceive, and what I have read. Maybe if all the observers of such phenomena in the world united together, they could convince more people, even scientists.

I tend to see it the way HoC said, the flashlight going out while left on the desk. What creates the body's energy? The body's systems, using the lungs, heart, blood, glucose, oxygen, etc. When the body shuts down, it ceases to manufacture (convert) energy from the raw materials (like when you shut off the car, it stops using the gasoline). When the systems fail, there is no more energy to be had because it's not making/converting any more. So the limbs stop moving, the heart stops beating, breathing slows and eventually the brain has no more fuel and it dies. By this time, I just don't think there is really any more "energy" to talk about, except maybe the last bit of heat that leaves the body as it gets cold. There may be food in your stomach but you're no longer converting that into muscle-energy. In fact,I see that as the whole definition of death: the body isn't working as an efficient machine anymore, its' not making or using energy right, so it sputters for a while and then stops working.

Anyway, I've seen lots of people and animals die, and I still don't see anything awfully mysterious about the way the body shuts down.

Additionally, the things we refer to as stored energy,we usually only think of them as energy to the extent we can use them ourselves. Like glucose in the blood. A normal body will use it for energy. Fat is a kind of stored energy, and a functional metabolism can convert it when the need to do so arises. However, a dying body doesn't have this functional metabolism, making the fat stores useless. Can it be converted to energy? Yes. If you were part of the Donner Party, and the others ate your dead body, that fat would be converted to energy for them. So no energy was lost. It's like a car that is completely fucking broken, but still has a full tank of gas. You don't ask, where did the car's energy go? because it's still all there, it just isn't able to be used by the car. Same with the body. Stomach is full of food, but the body is in no condition to convert that into energy for the body to use, or the body is otherwise unable to use that potential energy. There is no problem with energy being created or destroyed, there is a problem with converting and using energy.