I can't do this....

I just spent the best part of an hour on the phone with him. The landlord won't hold his apartment past July 1 and he'll need the full $400 rent. Even if he found a full-time job today, that's just 9 days. He can't get it.
We warned him we'd put him out.

For what? Being lazy? He won't admit to any problems...except that everyone hates him. No one will give him a break. He can't make other friends....so he has to keep the ones he has even though they're scum and just use him. I can't deal with him...I really can't.

Literally, he makes me want to just give up. He makes me just want to literally walk out of this office and get in my car and disappear. Just drop off the planet and never be heard from again.

If you can't handle making him leave now, don't. Your feelings matter. Or pay the first rent. Do not make yourself crazy. Nobody, not even our beloved kids, should have so much power over us that we can't function. If you have to pay his rent repeatedly to feel okay than do it for yourself. It is not just about him.

Only do what you and Jabber feel is right. You have to live with yourselves.

Nobody, not even our beloved kids, should have so much power over us that we can't function.

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I don't know what's right. I know that it's his fault he hasn't found work. But knowing that doesn't help. I know he's had 2 1/2 months to be able to pass a drug test and have a full-time job (most places hiring full-time require that) but he hasn't. Knowing that doesn't help. I know that NOT putting him out when we said we would sets a bad precedent. Knowing that doesn't help.

We wouldn't have to be on the lease - all we'd have to do is fork over the cash. But it wouldn't really stop there. Because he still needs a FULL TIME job to pay $400/mo. He can't count on J. He knows that. He'd still rather have crappy, irresponsible friends than none at all. I told him today that I was going to tell him the same thing I've told women in abusive relationships, "It's better to be with no one than to be with the wrong one." but he doesn't agree.

So a month would go by and we'd be right back here. Maybe not. Maybe pigs will fly.

Nobody, not even our beloved kids, should have so much power over us that we can't function.

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I really can't. It's like my brain goes into vapor lock. I can't think and certainly can't work. I hate this. I am not a useless, helpless person. Except where he's concerned. And knowing that also doesn't help.

I just want to curl up in a little ball and have it all go away. There is really nothing and no one in my life that's ever made me feel like this. Even when married to his controlling, manipulative, horrible biodad - I wasn't like this. He threatened suicide. I sold his gun. He threatened to burn the house down if I left him...I had plans in case it got bad enough I was willing to lose all my stuff. I had people I knew would help if it came to that.

I always had a plan. I don't see it here. Maybe because it's not just me...so I can't just do what I want. Jabber honey, that's not a dig at you...it's just that I can't make the decisions alone and so I can't make any decisions at all. Does that make sense?

Oh Lil, I want to cry for you. I know that feeling. It literally sucks the life out of you. I also know that leaving them out there swinging in the breeze is not any easier. I don't know the right answer. I question my decision daily. I worry constantly. I know that mine can't live with me. It is not healthy for either of us. We can only do so much.

Nothing is set in stone. Can he live on the property and take care of things there. Work for his food so to speak. Since he is not working, could this be a possible solution?

He is terrible afraid of being alone that is why people stay with abusive other people. I do not know the extent of their fear but we can assume its quite high. My youngest is not afraid of being alone he likes being alone actually and I am not afraid he will stay in abusive relationships I am afraid he will never have any relationships but probably he has social anxiety so his issue is the opposite both are terrible things to have but the downsides are different.

I always had a plan. I don't see it here. Maybe because it's not just me...so I can't just do what I want. Jabber honey, that's not a dig at you...it's just that I can't make the decisions alone and so I can't make any decisions at all. Does that make sense?

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Yes and no. You know my thoughts on the matter honey. I agree with GN, I think that he is manipulating you. My thoughts on this is that if he threatens suicide, we react accordingly. When July 1st comes, we stick to the plan and kick him out. If we pay July's rent for him, other issues will come up. He's still unemployed so wont have food, wont have cigarettes (yeah, I know), wont have anything but what we give him.

IF, IF, he manages to get even part time work, he might be able to pay the rent but will be calling us constantly about food, cigarettes, rides, etc... I'm sorry honey but I see no reason to help someone who doesn't want help, they want to be coddled and taken care of. Doesn't mean I wont discuss options with you, just doubt seriously that they will help.
He's lived with us rent free for two and a half months and hasn't done anything to help himself. What good will buying another month do?

I'd almost rather he stayed with us instead of paying the rent for him. Almost. Haven't decided yet if its worth $400 to have him out of the house for a bit.

Lil you can give worrying about your son a rest. If you can afford it, pay his rent in an ongoing way for YOU so that you aren't afraid. For your sake. No, it won't make him get a job or dump J and it could be considered enabling, but it could also be done to give YOU peace. In the end, whether you pay his rent or send him packing with nowhere to go, it is up to him to decide to be productive.

If you need him to, at a minimum, have a roof over his head, and you don't want it to be your roof, that is a solution for YOU, not him. You can never be his solution.

So if you can't function at the thought of his being homeless, and you can't live with him and if you have enough money so that it won't be a burden on you, I think it's fine to ease your mind and then let HIM fill in the rest of the blanks.

You can still withhold money for things he can find on his own, like going to food pantries and living without air conditioning in the summer if he won't work to pay his electric bill. In the winter...he can get assistance for heat. He can use flashlights for light.

Refrigerator?

He can eat peanut butter and jelly...things that don't require refrigeration.

You don't have to make it fun, but you can give him that roof for your piece of mind. Whatever it takes for you to be okay. It doesn't have to be about him anymore. Put your own needs first.

Jabber, I agree with you. But Lil matters too. You can say no to everything but the rent. Maybe tell him you'll pay the dang rent as long as he never calls his mother to ask for favors. Tell him you'll cut him off if he does bother her.

It makes it all the more difficult since he isn't violent or abusive or anything, really, other than a bit lazy and immature.

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Not totally true. Personally, I consider his ranting phone calls to Lil while at work to be abusive. He KNOWS he is jeopardizing her employment but continues to do it. If he wants to "discuss" something he will follow you until you either cave or snap. He may not be physically abusive and its possible that this is subconscious and not knowingly being abusive, but its still being abusive.

You can still withhold money for things he can find on his own, like going to food pantries and living without air conditioning in the summer if he won't work to pay his electric bill. In the winter...he can get assistance for heat. He can use flashlights for light.

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Unfortunately SWOT, we can afford this but it would put a strain on the finances each month. Most places around here have a clause in the lease that you must have electric turned on or you are in violation of the lease. Power off means possible damaged and or NASTY fridge as well as a safety issue if the fire alarms are hard wired. And withholding money doesn't mean he wont still call us all the time pissing and moaning about it.

My vision of things, when he was a kid, was that he'd stay until he was ready to go...but not like he is. In an ideal world, he could have a room in the basement, privacy, live like a grown-up and pay us small rent until he had enough $ to get out on his own. But that kind of thing only works with other peoples kids. In our world?

We give him $400 - ONCE - we can't afford it on an ongoing basis - and then what? He can't pay the next month.

We let him stay - and then what? He won't stop hanging around with these losers. He won't stop doing the things he's always done because he believes that nothing will change - if he doesn't have them he'll be lonely. He makes it happen.

And therein lies your problem, right now you won't. That allows him, even if its only on a subconscious level, to manipulate you. That being said, I still think that he is actively manipulating you. You are upset when he's lonely, depressed, threatening suicide. My general response is "Suck it up Buttercup. Life aint meant to be easy." so he tends to not try it much on me.

Wow! Your situation is very similar to mine with my 21 year old daughter. I truly feel your pain and I'm wrestling with some of the same feelings but the blatant disrespect and her seeming to want to fight me pretty much did it for me. I can't do anything else but PRAY for her. They come through us but when they refuse to be responsible and respectful adults that's when we have to release them back to God. The hope is that they will eventually learn from their mistakes, make better decisions for their lives and go on and eventually become productive citizens and have decent lives. If that happens praise God but if it doesn't we have to learn to be ok with it no matter how hard it is because we can NOT live their lives for them. I'm learning this as I go and this is more difficult than raising her as a single mom ever was. Prayers for you and the tough decisions you have to make. Just know you are not alone. Sometimes this site is all I have when dealing with my feelings and decisions on dealing with my adult child. I'm thankful for you and others on this site for sharing and having a place to go for support. God's love and guidance will see you through. Give it and him up to God and pray without ceasing for your son's eventual deliverance. God works. Peace and blessings to you Lil in the days to come.

One thing that inspired us is a business associate of my husbands. I was invited to dinner with them which is rare. He said he kicked his 18 year old DAUGHTER out because she came home drunk. He reprimanded her and she did it again. Some other respect issues but nothing I would think was that bad personally. It was his oldest daughter. They then asked her to leave. He said his wife wanted it more than he did. She fooled around for a year or so but then went to college and is now in her junior year.

She had no substance abuse issues like my kid or none of the issues like your kid BUTit worked. I have heard so many stories like this.

Maybe he can rent a room someplace. He doesn't need an entire apartment. Lots of people rent out rooms in their home for one reason or another.