Working without a college/university degree (Either partially or not done at all)

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Regardless, I am afraid I have to agree with TRL. Even the current private school market sporting different brands of degrees has been viewed with contempt by different employers.

Given how competitive South East Asia is, sometimes I wonder if the degree is nothing more than a gimmick to enrich a few at the expense of the rest of society; it feels like some sort of elitist filter where children of non-degree holders are regarded as "stupid" and excluded from access to higher wages - once a serf, always a serf.

__________________

When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.

Given how competitive South East Asia is, sometimes I wonder if the degree is nothing more than a gimmick to enrich a few at the expense of the rest of society

I wouldn't put it like that. As I said, the value of the degree lies in what you've learnt and not what the degree is. If it was a subject that you were interested in, then it wouldn't matter what you actually studied. What matters is whether you are able to apply what you've learnt, and not what the paper says you were supposed to have learnt.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yu Ominae

Though if one were to ask me the hesitation, it's because I have a community college degree and I'm ashamed to tell people that I've only finished it as a post-secondary degree in "General Studies". The other one is that my older brothers have university-level degrees (and one of them has a Masters).

I understand where you're coming from but, first of all, hear this: You have nothing to be ashamed about.

Qualifications may be important, but don't allow them to define who you are. There are people who have succeeded without them. ChainLegacybrought up the example of his father. Then there is my younger brother's example.

Growing up, he was a very, very angry youth. Even though my parents and relatives did not compare him against me, he constantly felt like a failure because he was academically slower than I was. He barely scraped through secondary school to make it to a polytechnic — in Singapore, that is where you work towards a diploma.

Unfortunately, he dropped out of polytechnic in his second year, due to a combination of lack of interest in his mechanical engineering course and teenage rebelliousness.

Unsurprisingly, that did no good to his already poor self-esteem. He eventually ended up in a technical college, where students work towards tradesmen qualifications. Even there, he fared very badly.

Then, things took a surprising turn. His girlfriend at the time was a hairstylist. She had partnered a few other friends to open a salon. So, she roped my brother into the trade and persuaded him to enrol for professional classes at a private hairstyling school.

And it turned out that my brother had terrific talent for the trade, to the extent that one of the instructors of the school took him under his wing. The instructor was posted to the Bangkok branch of the school and he took my brother along.

One thing led to another — it turned out the instructor was a douchebag who wanted to leech off my brother's growing skills. He was eventually sacked, and my brother was promoted into his position.

Over the next 10 or so years, my brother worked hard and built up an extensive network of his own in Bangkok (he once styled the hair of Abhisit Vejjajiva before he became prime minister of Thailand) and he is well on his way towards running his own salon.

And to this date, my brother doesn't have a single academic qualification to his name. But he's a much happier and better adjusted person today than he was 10 years ago.

So, don't be hung up over your academic performance. I'm also sure that your father doesn't mean to compare you against your siblings. He's only concerned about what you intend to do about your career.

If you have other plans in mind, now is the time to tell him about it. And if you don't, as I said, why not give your family business a try? Who knows? You may end up liking it more than you think.

Given how competitive South East Asia is, sometimes I wonder if the degree is nothing more than a gimmick to enrich a few at the expense of the rest of society; it feels like some sort of elitist filter where children of non-degree holders are regarded as "stupid" and excluded from access to higher wages - once a serf, always a serf.

Not sure about the children, but in America we definitely have the problem where unless you're some technical or artistic genius, you need a degree to get a decent career. It's ridiculous because most of the jobs people do don't require 4 or more extra years of school. At most they need some vocational stuff but that's it. Basically you're forcing a good chunk of youth to stay juvenile for a few more years than is needed, while fleecing them and their parents of money. Retarded. I'm probably one of those who should not have gone to university; I'll admit it, I'm not someone who has the intellectual worthiness to be in college. Judging by how much information I actually retain from my courses, everything I learned thus far in college, I could have gained online of my own accord or if my superiors at my current job were to order it. In effect I will have mostly wasted tens of thousands of dollars from my father's bank account by the time I graduate.

Well, actually, I think the real topic of this thread is: Could you learnt something from other, un-academic source? And could you live with it? The answer: Yes and No! Academic is the easiest way, but not the only way. Maybe you should read "My Universities" by M.Gorky.

I have a feeling that I'm going to get some sleepless nights while soul searching on this matter. Doesn't help that the it's getting close to Sept. 3, the day classes open in North America (At least in the community college I'm in) and I'm not getting any hint of a return ticket since the only reason I left the Winter 2013 semester is 'cause of needed head surgery to take out a tumor before it gets worse. And I wonder if I can retake them years even though there does seem to be an expiration on eligibility of courses being allowed to use as transfer credit to the university level. When that happens, I'm going to go batshit insane that I need to start over again. Gonna be a waste there. Seems that I need to do distance education.

Either that or I retake pol sci at another institution. Only thing I don't like is how Phil. universities (Majority) use entrance exams as a qualifier and the top unis didn't take me then 'cause I flunked them even though I studied for them.

And thanks for that story. I do find that intriguing and it really does beg the question if a post-secondary degree is needed (well except for some jobs that do need them like law or banking).

__________________

Even if we were at odds with each other, I still thank you for training me, Instructor Bowman - Yu Ominae, reflecting on Bowman's death after killing him in Phantom Island

if you are skilled or have a specialization in some fields, actually degree doesn't mean much, because most employee will test you during the interview, the problem is how to convince them to invite you if you had no degree, but it's also not a problem if you had 3-5yr working experience in that specific field.

That being said the degree alone is definitely not sufficient, let say as a programmer in college most likely people will learn only the basic like c,c++,c#,vb,java. But in reality we need to have a knowledge of certain framework and development tools. In my case, I'm c# .net developer working mostly with Silverlight(I know it's going to be dead soon or later, as microsoft said they will focus more on html5), WCF Ria services, microsoft sql server R8, visual studio 2010/2012. I didn't get any of those in my university, I learn it by myself out of curiosity, luckily it helped me a lot.

So in a sense the degree was like a ticket to join a competition, the rest is depend on your skills alone, and it is not the "only" ticket.

I wouldn't put it like that. As I said, the value of the degree lies in what you've learnt and not what the degree is. If it was a subject that you were interested in, then it wouldn't matter what you actually studied. What matters is whether you are able to apply what you've learnt, and not what the paper says you were supposed to have learnt.

Then what if all I wanted is to learn how to solve any problem? What would a degree get me? Credentials? Image?

What I actually didn't like is that many degree courses require students to apply the "right method" to solve problems rather than using the concept approach - first by understanding the underlying circumstances, isolate major causes, then depending on the source, apply aggressive/conservative/staggered/proxy approaches to induce the desired effect.

It is frustrating to be interested in learning something and then being force-fed prechewed meat when we chose to opt in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeoXiao

Not sure about the children, but in America we definitely have the problem where unless you're some technical or artistic genius, you need a degree to get a decent career. It's ridiculous because most of the jobs people do don't require 4 or more extra years of school. At most they need some vocational stuff but that's it. Basically you're forcing a good chunk of youth to stay juvenile for a few more years than is needed, while fleecing them and their parents of money. Retarded. I'm probably one of those who should not have gone to university; I'll admit it, I'm not someone who has the intellectual worthiness to be in college. Judging by how much information I actually retain from my courses, everything I learned thus far in college, I could have gained online of my own accord or if my superiors at my current job were to order it. In effect I will have mostly wasted tens of thousands of dollars from my father's bank account by the time I graduate.

Well I am paying it off using my future earnings; and the potential wage and what I am earning now is $400 per month. Tell me it is worth it.

Honestly speaking, I have no idea why I am pursuing this goddamn degree other than my mother having that hidden desire to see her children become graduates - something that is highly esteemed in a traditional Chinese society. She wanted it badly because both my parents are farmers' kids - a highly self-sufficient, yet still regarded as the bottomfeeders of Asiatic societies because they get their hands dirty for everyone else. If I wanted it my way, I would rather be trading the stock market at night and spend the rest of the day replicating masers from salvaged oven magnetrons.

If it wasn't for this degree I would have already bought a 3D printer.

__________________

When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.

@Yu Ominae - You need to do what you feel is best for yourself, not necessarily what others want you to do. You have your own life; and if you want a good sense of fulfillment throughout your life time, you have to take control of things yourself. We've gotten the impression that you want to go back to school to finish your political science degree, so that's what you should do. Under your circumstances, distance education would be ideal and a lot more convenient. You could finish your degree while you work in your dad's business. And the great thing about distance education is that it's accessible, affordable, and flexible (you can study at your own pace). In this scenario, you could appease your father and meet your academic goal. Take some time to think about this.

Since the pushing is coming to shove literally, I thought about this during one of my many sleepless nights.

I have to inquire if I can do DE while I'm in another country so that my credits aren't wasted. Otherwise, I'll pray to whatever god to help me come back to Canada and rent a place to finish off the rest and re-enter uni again since my dad plans (and he is serious) on selling our house there.

__________________

Even if we were at odds with each other, I still thank you for training me, Instructor Bowman - Yu Ominae, reflecting on Bowman's death after killing him in Phantom Island

Since the pushing is coming to shove literally, I thought about this during one of my many sleepless nights.

I have to inquire if I can do DE while I'm in another country so that my credits aren't wasted. Otherwise, I'll pray to whatever god to help me come back to Canada and rent a place to finish off the rest and re-enter uni again since my dad plans (and he is serious) on selling our house there.

Tell me the name of the community college you went to and the program you took in Vancouver. I'll do some research for you.

I lost my first job as an analyst in a think tank firm here in Manila. Justification was inefficiency with little improvement in doing top-quality reports.

While I was let go, the boss and HR are willing to help me out in case I need character references in case I go to university/someone wants to recruit me.

I did some serious thinking and more research before and after I got the job. It looks good, except for doing SFU stuff again if there happens to be a class with no online exam done. Which means that I need to go to the local embassy/British council office and seek out someone who can proctor for the university on their behalf.

Otherwise, I'm set. I hopefully can get my life back and maybe I'll think about doing masters or another program with certificate that can relate to my Pol Sci studies.

__________________

Even if we were at odds with each other, I still thank you for training me, Instructor Bowman - Yu Ominae, reflecting on Bowman's death after killing him in Phantom Island

a couple of decades ago, a college diploma would be a big deal if you want a steady, decent job in an office since being a cubicle jockey was the job to have back in those days (a step up from the previous generations' need to get into factory work and such)

these days, things are changing, and there are indeed a lot of folks who become successful making money on their own without even taking a deskjob... it might take a bit of ingenuity a bunch of failed ideas, but you'll make it if you give it enough tries! just like dark souls!