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I beg to differ. Even the Chucrh has a hard time facing up to scientific evidence...

Yes thats true, because science challenges the power of the church. The church needs to people to be ignorant so that it could control their lives. But religion is different from the church. Some individuals just use it to get power.

If only the two, religion and science, could work hand in hand, then this would be a much better place.

{Please do not take any of this personally, this is all for the debate}
>>Alcatraz
Hmm, when you are saying religion is not easy, please elaborate on that. Science is not following what others say at all either. Science is constantly questioning everything. Even Einstien's theories are questioned today. And a lot of science is still being built upon, IE quantom theory is currently under heavy debate with how several issues cannot be resolved when referring to it. But again, in science if something is not known, steps are taken, facts are gathered, hypotheses are made, then from hard FACTS conclusions are drawn. Following the same road through religion, a story is read {from 2,000+ years ago} that tells you what is fact and tells you what happens.
IMO, it is clear which path would be the lazy man's way.

{Please Reply alcatraz, {and anyone else} this is beginning to be a very good conversation.}

I don't think that having faith necessarily means you just accept things blindly and that you never strive for answers. But there does come a point when all of our answers come up short. Our minds are finite (even though God created) and our intellects are flawed. Following Christ does not mean you blindly accept what other people tell you (even if that person is a preacher or priest). There are plenty of Christians I disagree with. Following Christ does not mean giving up science. The two are not necessarily mutually exclusive. Also, science and scientists are not infallible. Can't we go back in history and see where scientists have made mistakes? Aren't some of the theories of yesteryear now discredited? I feel we must guard against the idea that we have perfect knowledge and that science is infallible. The3ntropy, what you said about the investigation process in science might also have some signifigance for faith. Many people do not come to faith in Christ in an instant. For some, it is a long process of searching and questioning. They read the Bible, they pray, and in the end they come to a decision to follow Christ. Faith can also become an investigative process.

PS: ignorant people are not an asset to the Church. They are a hindrance.

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
(Romans 6:23, WEB)

I'm not saying that science and scientists are flawless... But it has been my experience that organized religion leads to a large amount of hipocracy. And tends to force people to accept what is written as truth or "Gospel" without question. If a piece of literature were composed today that claimed a human male died at the ripe old age of 600, wouldn't it be attacked and ridiculed mercilessly?

sarin mage:
noone forces you to do anything in religion. when ur old enouph to be confirmed they dont force you to be. when your confirmed u take responsibilty in ur religion, and your probably over exadurating with getting detension because u woudnt get detension for disagreeing with whatever they said, so dont say the loving fukin catholics , its not their fault they use u as their bitch

the3ntropy.. You seem to be sitting on the topic that we are just following something that was written in a book. Well, in science you are doing the same exact thing. Have you ever been to the moon to test the theory that in a vacuum all things drop at the same rate? Obviously not, you are just taking what someone else experimented with and accepting it in "blind faith." Have you ever decomposed water and tested the electron structure to be sure that it is made up of 2 Hydrogens and 1 Oxygen? Probably not, you simply look at the periodic table of elements and look up in some book what someone else reasearched, and accept that as fact. Is believeing the bible so different?

Religions are not all alike. They are not necessarily represented by their leaders. They are not even always represented by their followers. They are represented mostly by simple sets of principles. Science has these principles too. The elements are an example of them. It is generally not questioned that humans are carbon-based, just as Christians do not generally question the fact that Jesus is the Messiah.

The Bible is obviously not perfect, as it was written by men, but it is not a fault that it was written 2,000 years ago. Some scientific writings may still be accepted 2,000 years from now. And the Bible is not the sole source of Christian belief. It's really just a history book, and most people don't spend their lives living in the past. Christian belief can basically be summed up as 'Believe in Jesus and you will be saved.'

"Once a fact is established in science, it is not questioned."
Wonder who said that? Actually, facts are continuing to be questioned as in science, which is based on observation, can change if new observations are made. Let's not confuse truth with fact. Any top engineer, scientist etc challenges what is known from time to time to ensure the "facts" have not changed.

Originally posted here by xmaddness the3ntropy.. You seem to be sitting on the topic that we are just following something that was written in a book. Well, in science you are doing the same exact thing. Have you ever been to the moon to test the theory that in a vacuum all things drop at the same rate? Obviously not, you are just taking what someone else experimented with and accepting it in "blind faith." Have you ever decomposed water and tested the electron structure to be sure that it is made up of 2 Hydrogens and 1 Oxygen? Probably not, you simply look at the periodic table of elements and look up in some book what someone else reasearched, and accept that as fact. Is believeing the bible so different?

Actually it is very different. There is no supporting material either physical or intellectual with religion. With science, you don't take what is given to you, you question it. Hence, Stephen W. Hawking, you know why he is so smart, he questions the basics that science leans on.

Here's a pretty good definition of faith. Faith is when you believe in something you know isn't true. -Mark Twain. Now carefully read that. Cause it doesn't say anything about being right or wrong, it just says that isn't true.

>>Xmaddness,
You are completely wrong there, sorry. I do not accept things I read. I do experiments of my own. Yes, I have dropped a feather and a lead ball in a vacuum tube before, and have seen to my amazement that they fall at the same rate of 9.8 m/s/s. And I have seen impressions from a SEM {scanning electron microscope} That have shown to me the raw fact that H2O is made of of 2 hydrogen atoms, and 1 oxygen atom. And also I have seen how they bond aswell. I never accept the blind fact, I always question until the proof is undoubtable. So, when you say I am being lazy, you are not only off the track, you have derailed, :P.