The Obama administration has begun limiting the legal rights of terror suspects held at the Guantanamo Bay military prison in Cuba, telling a federal judge Tuesday the government alone should decide when the prisoners deserve regular access to their counsel.

In a 52-page filing, Justice Department lawyers said they have started restricting when Guantanamo prisoners can challenge their detention in a Washington-based federal court. If approved, any relaxing of the rules would be made on a case-by-case basis at the exclusive discretion of military officials, not by the courts.

At issue is whether a Supreme Court decision on detainee rights from 2008 gives federal courts the ultimate power to control so-called "habeas" petitions from foreign combatants in U.S. military custody. Volunteer private lawyers say they deserve regular access to their imprisoned clients, even if there is no active habeas challenge pending in court, or any pending charges.

Under the proposed changes, the Navy base commander at Guantanamo would have sole veto power over attorney access, as well as access to classified material, including information provided directly by the detainees from interrogations.

"The dispute thus before the Court, though important, is quite narrow," said the government in its legal filing. "The only question presented is whether detainees who have neither current nor impending habeas petitions are entitled to" challenge continued access to counsel. "The answer to that question is 'no.'"

The case is before Chief Judge Royce Lamberth. His court has been handling the many appeals filed by the prisoners. There are currently 168 detainees - all male - in the Guantanamo facility, most of whom do not have pending charges. Five Muslim men labeled "high-value detainees" are being prosecuted before a military commission for their alleged leadership roles in the 9/11 terrorist attacks.

In the so-called Boumediene ruling in 2008, the high court said "enemy combatants" held overseas in U.S. military custody have a right to a "meaningful review" of their detention in the civilian legal justice system. It would force the government to present evidence and justify keeping the prisoners indefinitely, without charges. But a federal appeals court in Washington has since refused to order the release of any detainee filing a habeas corpus writ, in some cases rejecting such orders from lower-court judges.

The administration has argued it does not seek to restrict lawyers who have an active legal appeal, but that the rights of detainees shrink once they have filed their first habeas challenge. The military says lawyers must now agree to the new conditions in order to have continued access to their clients and to any classified information the military would deem to release.

And lawyers would be prohibited from using any information they gather that might help the prisoners appearing before a Periodic Review Board. PRBs are newly designed panels of military officials to decide whether a Guantanamo inmate should continue to be held, and whether that person is a national security threat. Those boards were put in place by President Barack Obama by executive order, but have not been fully implemented.

"Executive Order 13,567 does not provide detainees who undergo PRB review with a judicially enforceable right to counsel, or any justification for asking the Court to impose a counsel-access regime on the PRB process other than the one developed, per the Order's direction, by the Secretary of Defense," said the government. "As a general matter, executive orders are viewed as management tools for implementing the President's policies, not as legally binding documents that may be enforced against the Executive Branch."

The government said the court's power to intervene was limited, and urged Judge Lamberth to deny the request guaranteeing attorney access. A court hearing is set for August 17 on the legal question.

soundoff(263 Responses)

Nick

I was stationed in GITMO from may 08 to june 09. i can tell you that there is more to this story than you are seeing. you realize that some of these prisoners are separated from one another to limit disturbances and break up their chain of command. A lot of these guys have the same attorney and will pass info through them. Definitely made our jobs as guards harder.

Sounds like hooey? Jeez!!! You obviously know nothing about these organizations or, for that matter, humans in general.

Choose 200-300 people at random and place them in any enclosed environment, and a chain of command WILL develop. Period. Witness the situation in prisons around the world. There is always a structure that runs from the "top dog" all the way down to the lowest prison "bi-t-ch."

Wake up to the reality of human life, mo-ron.

August 9, 2012 at 10:31 am |

Frank

This is just absolutely disgusting. Barack Obama is demonstrating himself to be no better than Dick Cheney.

And this surprises you? Oh. You actually believed in "hope and change." LMFAO. People who understand the true nature of terrorism – not life as we wish it were, but life as it really is – knew from Moment 1 that Odumba-ss' empty promises were nothing more than that......get the ignorant, naive, idealistic liberals all excited about how "we're gonna undo the eeeevil policies of the Bush Administration!!!" Yay!!! And then he gets elected, escalates the drone attacks far beyond Bush's use of them, keeps Gitmo open (you really think they've stopped the harsh interrogations there? LOL), and engages in a wide variety of behaviors that in no way reflect what he promised.

He's a politician, which means he's a wh-ore, just like all politicians are. It's time for America to wake up and elect a whole new crop and, if they do the same cr-ap, then elect another new batch.....and keep doing it until they start to serve the people again.

Bush isn't a war criminal. You should know that the definition of "war criminals" are those people on the LOSING team. We haven't lost...not yet anyway but Obama is sure trying to tip the scale in that direction.

Of course Odumba-ss is calling the shots. Who else do you think would be?

The evil "military-industrial complex?" The Illuminati? The Democratic National Committee? U.S. Government 101: the President is the leader of the Executive branch and personally sets policy for how all of the departments of the Executive Branch will conduct themselves, barring a law or court ruling which SPECIFICALLY precludes a certain course of action.....in a very specific way and on a very specific topic. That includes the Department of Justice and, yes, the Department of Defense.

So, yes, he is calling the shots. Geeeez.

August 9, 2012 at 11:24 am |

TheBigSarge

guess obozo decided to reneg on another campaign promise, although this time it is a good decision. terrorist and insurgents should be separated from their country so they cannot be broken out of jail or become martyrs trying to escape.

even way-radical-terrorists dont want to go to cuba, no matter what that libretard michelle moore had to say.

I will not ask for forgiveness in saying this but I firmly believe that if you have been proven guilty of a crime (beyond a shadow of a doubt) then your civil liberties are forfeit and cease to exist the moment you step through the gate into prison. This goes double for terrorists and others that are not American citizens but have perpetrated heinous crimes against the US on US "soil" worldwide. I don't know about you, but I'm sick of paying for the upkeep of the monsters in our jails across the country that are living better than they did before incarceration and in some cases, better than we are. Where's Judge Roy Bean when you need him?

And Leanne, how do you know who committed crimes? Did you see the part of the article where all but five have NO PENDING CHARGES? Are you aware that most of these so-called "terrorists" are not terrorists at all? Did you know they kept a 12 year old kid at Gitmo for years and years and tortured him? Oh yea, and Eric Holder fought to keep him there. He was released (there was NO evidence he did ANYTHING) only after a federal judge almost literally screamed and yelled about it.

IWho are the terrorists? What is a terrorist? A terrorist is someone who bombs, kills, maims and TORTURES innocents. Which government has been doing that? How many civilians killed in Iraq? Afghanistan? Pakistan?

"...how do you know who committed crimes? Did you see the part of the article where all but five have NO PENDING CHARGES?"

Aaahhh, I see. So because there are no pending charges, they are innocent. You're a naive, blind sheep, Burkey. Wake up, fool. You'd be the first one to die at these peoples' hands, if they had the chance to get ahold of you.

Your inexcusable error is to overlay your own sense of right and wrong – and your sense of due process, etc. – onto these terrorists. They don't follow the same rules as you and I. They don't care about our form of government (except to the degree that they can use it for their objectives). They exploit our sense of fair play and commitment to "law and order" to undermine our society and destroy us.

You can carry the flag to fight for these animals' rights, but never doubt for a minute that their commitment is absolutely and totally to all-out war against us. Jihad. Victory at all costs. And the proof of that is how many of them have been killed or captured AFTER they were set free from Gitmo...... Innocent victims of the eeeevil U.S. government? Plllllleeeeeeaaaase.

Funny how, when the Bush Administration did this sort of thing, every liberal group worldwide, including the entire mainstream media, were up in arms. But now that it's the Obama Administration doing it, no problemo!!

Double standard, anyone? (Cue the comments from all the creative liberals who will bend over & contort to no end to defend their guy, even if it means directly contradicting the statements they made about Bush 4-8 short years ago).

hope: "Double standard, anyone? (Cue the comments from all the creative liberals who will bend over & contort to no end to defend their guy, even if it means directly contradicting the statements they made about Bush 4-8 short years ago)."

It's amazing, isn't it?

People were calling Bush a war criminal and a dictator, international groups said he was violating basic human rights when it came to Guantanamo Bay, etc. but there isn't a peep in the news about Obama's administration doing this.

...And when Bush was Prez, you didn't hear anything on the telly about it then, either.

August 9, 2012 at 12:21 am |

desertrider

Military commissions? I thought Obama was getting rid of those... He did promise right? Funny Gitmo hardly makes the news anymore... Senator Obama said it was the root of evil and he was getting rid of it.

That why he does not deserve to be reelected president; he is a lier, has no guts. At least bush was an idiot who was manipulated by cheney, rumsfield and the rest of those SOBs. He is the smart lawyer that was gonna set things right!

How do you know Obama is smart? Did CNN tell you he was? Haven't seen those college records... at least Bush released his.. Graduated from Yale... one of the toughest colleges in the nation.. What were your marks like at Yale? Ah yes... I suppose you think all the tenured professors there just passed him because his daddy said so.
Fact is for all Bush's faults (I was not a fan of the guys policies) Obama has simply continued them after lying that he was going to go down a different course. I don't see why anyone that voted for him would vote for him again.

President Obama can do nothing unless he gets a bill to sign from Congress. So long as the GOP controls Congress things will remain the same. The Repugnantcan House is the source of every wall that has been raised to stop the changes promised by the POTUS. Remove the socio-industrial fascist GOP party that now controls Congress and change can actually happen.

Obviously, Yakoby, you have not been to our fine jails in L.A. County.

August 9, 2012 at 12:23 am |

Chris

GTMO was by far my least favorite duty station while in the Marine Corps but I'm sure glad I spent my year their prior to 9/11. Back when I was their from 1998-1999 we just patrolled the fence line, stood post for 24hrs, reported stupid mine field explosions, stood react for 24hrs, captured C.A.S. (Cuban asylum seekers), went on long patrols following the Cuban Frontier Brigade, got eaten alive by mosquito, hunted Banana Rats, harassed huge Iguanas, went Scuba diving, got into fights with Leeward side Marines or the P.O.G.'s at the motor pool, on occasion a boat full of Haitian refuges would crash at Kittery Beach and we would spring into action as if the base was being attacked, we drank way to much, complained about the lack of women, counted down the days before we got orders out of that place, we PT'd way too much, hiked way too far in that ridiculous heat, waited out Hurricanes in bunkers, studied our general orders, studied the T.A.O.R. (Tactical Area of Responsibility) of each M.O.P. (Military Observation Post), occasionally dozens of boxes full of Mary Jane would wash up at M.O.P. 34 which was cool and crazy, and we dreamed of the day that dreaded bases would be closed down.

Folks, take heart, all is not lost. In fact, we are growing stronger. Consider; There are people in prison in Cuba who probably really killed or tried to kill Americans on the battlefield or elsewhere. And we really do despise these people for that. But here we are, many of us arguing in favor of granting them rights. We believe that those rights are so important that, before we will jeopardize them, we will even grant them to our enemies. Yes, some people in these comments are speaking rashly, foolishly, and probably without thinking. But many are speaking like Americans, supporting what Americans believe. So take heart, as we support democracy, equity, and justice, we grow stronger. It has been ever thus.

Go ahead and believe that if you wish, but the war on terror has done wonders for jihadi recruitment. Over there they are called freedom fighters, because they fight the foreign enemy that has invaded their land. Apparently you haven't considered what YOU would do if a foreign army invaded the US. Or how US foreign policy might be making us less safe, not more, by targeting innocents.

He tried to close it down. But in one of Congress' rare bipartisan efforts, they absolutely tied his hands in the matter. You remember the flap about trying 9/11 terrorists in New York, right? That's when all that went down.

IIt's my country too, I was born here, dissent and demonstration are our traditional methods for social change. It's called democracy. I don't like you either but I don't tell you to leave. America is about different people coming together by and for the people. Sounds like you need to move somewhere a little more totalitarian where everyone agrees with each other. Don't make my country into that, thanks.

so much for America being a democracy. Let's see: detention without trial, putting you into a concentration camp – where they use torture – and now they limit and decide 'whether' you get a lawyer. Sickening. Americans should feel right at home with Germans in the 1930's.

FYI, illegal combatants can be shot after being given a trial under international law. All the Geneva convention stipulated was humane treatment for illegal combatants being detained by a foreign power.

They're still alive, they have no lack of food, their dietary preferences are being adhered to, so you're making a big joke of yourself trying to draw a moral equivalence to Nazi Germany.

Try visiting one of the German death camps in Poland, you'll see that conditions in Guantanamo are a picnic compared to Auschwitz or Buchenwald.

Cheese, look, these people are not actually being given the right to address the question of whether they are or are not quilty of anything illegal. Indeed, I rather imagine that they are quilty of being enemy combatants. But America still means equality – in spite of our sometimes poor record of supporting it – and that means that even these people in prison in Cuba must be treated fairly, not simply fed, housed, and clothed. I don't like enemy insurgents any more than you do, but I hate more, much more, this very unfortunate habit we've fallen into of allowing certain rights to some, but restricting them from others. I beleive that everyone and anyone has the right to prove or disprove his or her quilt or innocence.

You are right to point out that this is not equivilant to the Nazi attrocities. But that doesn't make what we are doing now morally right either. Regardless of whatever treaties are out there we should be taking the moral high ground, not giving it away part and parcel to our enemies. Have you ever read the Bill of Rights? It states "all men" not "all citizens". If there are no charges pending against a prisoner they should be released immediately. If they are being held as un-uniformed enemy combatants then they should be charged as such and start serving their sentence or executed if found guilty. We have both a military justice system and a civilian court system, and neither seems to actually be used properly in this case.

why don't you take your next picnic trip there then...that is very comforting comparession...how low can you go!

August 8, 2012 at 12:58 pm |

Burkey

That's not what Army Specialist Neely told the Guantanamo testimonials project, and he was there when it all got started. His testimony is horrifying. On so many levels. People don't know. Keep in mind these are people facing no charges. That means there is no evidence.

IIs that what the land of the Free is about? Holding people without charging them or allowing them to see a lawyer? Sounds like the fight for freedom isn't in the middle east but here at home. Pretty savvy of the fascists to send our best and brightest young men and women to fight people they know nothing about on the other side of the world while our freedoms erode here.

Obama tried to close Gitmo and move all the detainees to a prison in the U.S., but Congress stopped the transfer in its tracks and said no money could be used to transfer or house the detainess on U.S. soil.

Dear everyone who support Gitmo;
Thank you for your continuing support for US to crippled basic human right. As a result, the US government can continue this ugly cause by passing the The National Defense Authorization Act in last December. This act allows the government to arrest American citizens on American soil and hold them indefinitely and without trial or any form of due process (forget your right not to speak & right to talk to a lawyer) . Its provisions also allow the government to define anybody as a terrorist (a political dissident, a journalist, a protestor, you!), so, be ready, you might be the next guy who will join Gitmo.

Not to mention tht Obamas attorney general Eric Holder said due process( guaranteed by the fifth amendment) is judicial process. It's only a matter of time before the us government starts Roy ding up us citizens nd holds them without charges or a judicial proceeding.

Pretty funny when you read and watch other outlets / politicians in the world calling for a war crimes tribunal on Obama. Not hearing that here in the USA are you? His drone "kill lists" and calling "every male in a combat zone" a terrorist. Obama has overseen the deaths over well over 4000 women and children from his drone strikes alone. I sure am glad we got someone who wasn't as bad as Bush..... Not to worry though, DHS is preparing for "a massive civil uprising and widespread civil disobedience" over the next 6-12 months. Why else would DHS buy 450,000,000 rounds of anti-personel ammunition? I'll tell you why, so the government can James Holmes American citizens after they label groups like Occupy and groups that aren't even created yet "homegrown terrorists" which is very easy to do under the Obama signed NDAA and NDRP and the Enemy Expatriation Act. Yes, under those acts, all signed by Obama, the Executive (POTUS) is legally allowed to strip someone of their citizenship and all of their rights. And we though Bush was bad... he only got the ball rolling.

I bought some 300 watt incandescent light bulbs last night, I thought those were cnacelled. another flip-flop? and the new drilling leases in the Gulf, I thought there was a moratorium, another flip-flop?

All you silly bureaucratic American hating hypocrites know nothing about guerrilla war. These partisan soldiers advocate and support war without rules. It's easy to argue that "We are better than them", and "we can never let ourselves do what they do" when you don't have your buddies guts all over you cause some lady's fetus was really an IED. Sure these guys might not have made the bomb, but they might have taught the bomb maker... How about we put the dead lady back together and have a postmortem trial?

And Repuplicans could care less about "collateral damage". Gutless cowards.

August 7, 2012 at 11:13 pm |

SSampson

I have had my buddy's guts all over me – and let me tell you something.... If wht I fought for ends up being exactly what I am fighting agaist, then there is NO point fighting. PERIOD.

Many of the people we are fighting these days have lived under oppression for SO long, they don't know or understand anything else. Even in this country we are often given misinformation from government and media sources – MANY arguments are fought over what we are told when TWO versions are presented to us and we see different versions.

Also, in Afghanistan, the Taliban were put in power by us. They were internationally recognized as the government (like them or not), so while we don't like ithe fact they shoot back; we don't like their politics and practices, we should be suprised when they resist.

One must also remember that they must 'make do' with what they have – Things like IEDs are no worse than any bomb or mine – If they had planes (for example), they'd bomb and strafe us, but they don't –

What is the difference (militarily) between an IED and a guided munition??? They are BOTH unexpected and they both kill people. Do you expect that THEY would not be as angry about their friends and family being killed???

During the American Revolution, we didn't like standing toe to toe with the British and we did raids and hid behind trees – This was practical – it makes sense... and we did not have all the gear the Brits did – so we 'changed' the rules – they thought is was barbaric

War is horrific – people die in all sorts of nasty ways –

However – in ALL wars we have due process – we did in WWI and WWII – we took prisoners (some who had commited illegal acts and slaughters) – we locked them up and gave them due process – All sides did some bad stuff too, although I like to beleive we didn't as often....

Regardless – thse people are fighting on land WE went to – NATO – resistance was a definate – Many of them are totally unaware of the so-called rules – That doesn't mean we should – they are POWs and should be treated as such – we don't have to set a new precident for future conflicts by making enemies guilty under our laws...

I bet if someone attacked us like this, we'd be making IEDs, infiltrating and attacking just like these people – some of us will even commit acts similar to the Taliban and Al-Qaeda –

War is NOT about everyone doing things the way we want or by our rules....

No one is advocating reprisals or condoning what Robert Bales did. I argue that these detention centers do much more good than harm, and until there is a viable alternative they must be allowed to remain. The U.S. is for all people who believe in its values (or at least abide by its laws). Western Liberal Democracy is the best form of government because none other preserves individual liberty nearly as well. If measures must occasionally be taken that are contrary to this Ideology in order to preserve it then so be it. This cause is a righteous one.

"Rights enjoyed under peaceful conditions may have to be surrendered in times of crisis, so that we may secure the permanent enjoyment of the former. Is it wise, in such a moment, to sacrifice the spirit of the laws to the letter, and by adhering too strictly to the letter, lose the substance forever, in order that we may, for an instant, preserve the shadow?" -Abraham Lincoln

I just wanted to thank you for your well reasoned, intelligent opinion on this matter. Your viewpoint is one everyone needs to hear. Thanks very much!

August 7, 2012 at 11:31 pm |

Stephen

Reply to "OffTheWorldPolitics"

>"The U.S. is for all people who believe in its values (or at least abide by its laws)"

You do realise that pretty much every country would claim that their country was all "for all people who believe in its values". That includes the countries which have gulags and concentration camps, run secret police forces, and detain people without due process.

>"Liberal Democracy is the best form of government because none other preserves
> individual liberty nearly as well. If measures must occasionally be taken that are contrary
> to this Ideology in order to preserve it then so be it. This cause is a righteous one."

And yet here you are defending a situation which includes:

* the locking up of people for over a decade without trial or even being charged;

* denying them access to their legal representation (which seems to be what the subject of this article)

How is that compatible with due process, let alone the precepts of liberal democracy?

> "Rights enjoyed under peaceful conditions may have to be surrendered in times of
> crisis, so that we may secure the permanent enjoyment of the former. Is it wise, in
> such a moment, to sacrifice the spirit of the laws to the letter, and by adhering too
> strictly to the letter, lose the substance forever, in order that we may, for an instant,
> preserve the shadow?" -Abraham Lincoln

This is basically a speech about how noble ends justify ignoble means.

The unpalatable truth is that Abraham Lincoln has much to answer for. He may have freed America's slaves, but he also set the precedent which GW Bush used when he set up Guantanamo Bay and began throwing people in there without charge. Not to mention the use of military commissions rather than the civil courts to try the detained

In Lincoln's case, it wasn't only bomb throwers and people with guns who got locked up. Suspending habeas corpus also allowed him to lock up the innocent as well; and they included judges, members of Congress, and newspaper editors,

Go read "American Bastille: A History of the Illegal Arrests and Imprisonment of American Citizens during the Late Civil War" John Marshall and "The Prisoner of State" by Ohio newspaper editor Dennis Mahoney (both can be found on archive.org, amongst other places).

"I argue that these detention centers do much more good than harm, and until there is a viable alternative they must be allowed to remain."

There has always been a viable alternative, especially now that the war is over and the detained are de facto American soil (viz. Giitmo): the US civil court system.

August 8, 2012 at 1:02 am |

Burkey

Thank god someone here reads...

August 9, 2012 at 12:49 am |

Jim Weix

How cool. The United States of America now joins the ranks of Nazi Germany and every other country with concentration or re-education camps. We're #1. Go USA!

I needed to give myself a minute before i responded to you. I didn't want to use words like moron, egg head, Stupid-m.o.t.rr.ff.k.r and really angry tidings. But it didn't work you stupid, pathetic excuse for a breathing organism. Concentration camps like the Nazis. Thats just grand. Go on thinking that the U.S. just runs around grabbing up a race that they plan to exterminate simply due to their race, and not the fact that they attacked US, from the other side of the planet, and we are really just another Hitler, in sheep's clothing. I really wish i knew where i could find you. I would take you for a ride down there and let you see what we are really doing. Then i would take you to Afghanistan and show you what we are doing. Then we would stop at the VA hospitals on the East Coast of the US, after a short stop in Germany where the first really beat up troops are taken. Then i would take you to New York and introduce you to the families that are STILL trying to get their life in order after 911, a decade ago.

So obviously you believe 911 was caused by al-CIA-duh......what do you believe about building 7? There are a lot of books you need to be shown, but I have the feeling you're not a reader. Nevertheless, if you fought for your country, then you ought to respect that there are people back in said country who are learning a truth that our fighters in the field are not allowed to see. Did you know all those bloody violent jihadi textbooks that taught kids in Afhganistan to tote guns were courtesy of the US? Washington Post story 2002. So what happened to building 7? Since you know so much please explain why the government says office furnishing fires brought down a 47-story steel-framed skyscraper that wasn't hit by a plane, in under 7 seconds, at 5:20pm on 9/11/01.

By now I hope we all (atleast the educated ones) realize that 9/11 was a false flag attack on the psyche of America, and has worked brilliantly. The issue now is that the U.S. has no evidence (other than confessions under torture) against the so-called masterminds of 9/11. There is far more evidence for explosions in the WTC complex than there is for any "terrorist" in GITMO. Not to mention the money trail leading to Saudia Arabia and the Pakistani ISI, which according to the 9/11 commision report was "of little significance". Not once has a money trail in a criminal investigation been considered of little significance. But getting back on subject, these prisoners in Guantanamo will never see the light of day let alone a trial (and now it seems won't even see their lawyers). For if all this lack of evidence came to light the true criminals of 9/11 might be exposed, and they simply won't ever allow that to happen.

More than 75% of the terrorists released from GITMO have been identified as either killed during a terrorist act or known to be active in terror cells in Africa and the Mid East. They are enemy combatants who happen to not belong to any central government army. They have more rights than any P.O.W. ever has had in any war in the world.

Not to mention that the historical solution has been execution. Churchill, Roosevelt exc.. Nearly every political leader that has faced an insurgency has taken measures much worse that these. God bless America!

August 7, 2012 at 9:54 pm |

adlass

OH WOW, the self-proclaimed bastion of human rights is doing this, what hypocrisy. Never EVER dare to pretend you have the moral high ground when you criticise China again.

........right along with his stance on taxes, gay marriage, the war on terror, environmental issues, and a host of others.

He's a politician. That means he's a wh-ore, just like the rest of them. He'll do and say whatever he has to in order to get to live like royalty for another 4 years......followed by a generous lifetime pension, healthcare, protection, and $250k-$1M per appearance on the lecture circuit. For Life.

making the claim that either obama or bush is a stalinist is ridiculous! saddam hussein was a stalinist, but you need to educate yourself a little more on who a stalinist would be. how about a mass murderer of about 30-50 million of his own people.

I don't approve of Obama's policies in some ways, just as I didn't agree with some of Bush's. But to label either man another Stalin or Hitler is just hyperbole of the absolute most unforgivable variety. Tens of MILLIONS of completely, unquestionably innocent people are dead because of Stalin and Hitler. Obama and Bush fight a war using some tactics you don't like, perhaps THOUSANDS of uninvolved civilians have died in the process (as has happened in every war since the world began), and magically they become another Stalin or Hitler?

OMG – wake up and re-join the real world.......or just go back to your mom's basement, put your foil hat back on, and wait for the aliens to come for you.

August 9, 2012 at 11:41 am |

Terri

If this passes then we would be setting a presedence for when the goverment starts to accuse citizens of being terrorist not to allow them access to lawyers. The goverment is insidious. They will set up some semingly harmless laws (to the average citizen) and then wait years before implementing them on the rest of us and then turn around and say " you allowed it"

AGREED!! Just check out NSA's "keywords" that give them full access to monitor American's personal communications (texts and emails) without warrant or subpoena, thanks to the nifty "Patriot" Act. If you use words like hope, faith, basement, beef, Mary, ect...in your communications, you have just been flagged as a possible domestic threat. Lovely, huh??

What would be nice is to see these GITMO detainees get their day in court. Receive their death sentence, have it carried out. Then try Bush/Cheney and their henchmen for torture, have them receive and take their punishment. Case closed. Murderers are found guilty and handled. The people that executed torture on the detainees get theirs as well. No need to let the detainees off on a technicality. They did what they did, they pay. We did what we did, we pay.

this guy is Bush on steroids! Mr. president you can go back to Chicago and take that teleprompter with ya, so you won't get lost. and i know you like to attack president Romney, oops, governor Romney but yes, he was successful as a republican governor in a liberal democratic state, Massachusetts, the unemployment rate went down, not up like with you, and balanced budgets. heck, he vetoed over 600 bills. have you used that veto pen yet? oh yeh, you haven't even passed a budget in 3 years and your last one was voted down by your own democratic senate 99-0. wow! one more thing about the governor. when he presided over the Olympics, right after 9/11, it is the only Olympics in modern history to make money. looks like governor Romney has a mighty fine resume to me! and since you are so hung up about the governor "only" releasing 2 years of tax returns, are you ever gonna release your college records? what are you hiding? Romney has released his and he finished 1st in his Harvard law class and second in his business school class. wow, pretty good, eh. so please, mr. president get ready to head back to chicago where you can work more on your golf game so we can get an adult in the white house.

You..."Go 'Gators" are a kracker idiot for posting what you post.
Now you may not be a "Real" idiot, those are few and far between.
Your opinion is not being challenged here,
Your expectation that you be taken seriously is.

make sure these mooooslims have lawyers to advise them of their rights according to american law only, being tried in a military court at Wallace detention center in gwinett county georgia usa, that is the final stop before going to New Orleans. I need some ordinance dropped on gwinnett county georgia usa. do any of you know about the canker worm.

What would George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Alexander Hamilton, Ben Franklin do today? Would they be revolting? Would they be classified as terrorists?
Today's politicians are a joke. Public service? No politician should be compensated for his public service. Public service should not be a path to riches, but a sacrifice.

I don't like a lot of his choices–especially his behavior in this election, but this story confirms that Obama is a centrist, in spite of the rhetoric of the right. He sometimes actually considers the facts and and is forced to make a logical decision. This whole situation with these detainees is awful, but so is their behavior that led to their detention. I understand the need for court oversight, but this is an extraordinarily complicated situation for which most people responding on this board, know little about. People on the right and the left come to confounding positions against their own values, and I come to the conclusion that there is no reasonable or good solution. I expect that the military has made some mistakes with these detentions, and even one such mistake is too many, but I see no easy way out of it.

pretty good odds that you voted for Obama, and had Bush hate syndrome, but now it is ok, but it wasn't with Bush. the fact is 3 times as many of our brave soldiers have died in a misguided and mismanaged war in Afghanistan since Obama became president. just as he has outspent Bush 4-1, this guy is "Bush on steroids". how could you give him 4 more years of what this country has been thru the last 4? so many promises, and with a super majority in congress, no excuses.

I am not a partisan. I voted for Bush, then I voted for Obama, in spite of either of their warts. I don't see either as "evil". Actually, both the younger Bush and Obama ARE centrists–one leaning left and the other right. You can tell by how much extremists on their own sides complain about their policies.

A centrist? You have to be joking. If he appears more moderate now and more "towards center," it's only because he's gunning for re-election. He means none of it. Whatever Obama says is subject to change at any moment, depending on which way the political winds are blowing.

Hey, I could do my right winger impression on this one: Oh! BOOO HOOO!!! Somebody went and stepped on the poor poor terrorists civil rights. Get the girls together for a cryfest! The poor poor terrorists, how horrible for them.

curiously, if we had the right wing wacko's in office, they would be doing the exact same thing though.............and yet now they are crying because their man is not in power doing this exact same thing................what am I missing here.

Civil liberties are gone........the U.S. is no longer a free country....it is embarassing.

But didn't Obama promise to close Gitmo quickly? Much like the economy, you can't promise change, have no real results in the areas in which you promised, and continue to blame your predecessor for over 3 years. Come on... I voted for Obama, but I won't make that mistake this time around.

August 7, 2012 at 8:47 pm |

FlyontheWall

YES!! and it is only getting worse.....the democrats are on board with it too it seems......the republicans are so far down that river, and now the democrats too.

GITMO is the Bush Cheney pooch and they screwed it so hard it will live as a mark on our country forever. Some pooches you can't unscrew. Now the GOP want's control back too. What pooch is next? Water pollution seems like a fair bet.

Big D You have to remember at the time they were trying to figure out how to fix the situation. Dem's washed their hands of it until election time. We know We know its all Bush's fault. Not to mention that Obama has done nothing except strip us of our rights. Now we all pay a new tax and he wants more taxes to support his spend thrifty ways. Democrats throw money at it to see if will fix it. If you have grand children be sure and thank them for paying your debt. And leave a note for their kids too.....

Obama stopped the torture, made the call on Usama, and left Iraq. He will be getting my vote. Gadhafi is just gratis.

August 7, 2012 at 8:44 pm |

gogators

yes, my party, the democrats have turned against my view of America. now i must turn to the republicans, the party of Lincoln, Martin Luther King and Ronald Reagan. i may be a democrat, but i will vote for the American who is best suited for the job, and that is now Mitt Romney.

August 7, 2012 at 8:56 pm |

gogators

the fact is, the soldiers of war that we are holding there are happier and better off than they would be at a maximum security prison within the U.S. they even have a 750,000 dollar soccer field, thanks to our president. if you polled them, they would say please do not take us to a 4×8 cell at leavenworth!

So lets get this straight, So where is the difference? Were going to bring Assange in from England and we are going to give him an attorney and send him to an American prison. Here we have had all those detainee's for years. No one has gone to court and now they can't have legal council. Assange has legal rights in our country and so would any one else. However Obama has now stripped them from being able to file motions for a trial. And most important our President is now telling Judges what he is going to do. Did he do the same thing on Obamacare? We have a dictator now. One nation under Obama, oops God

Yes, that right, the government is now a dictatorship......It was one under Bush, and it is one under Obama. They both are near identical in how they operate. That is the new american reality....and it will only get worse from here, as the rich elite see fit to control everyone.

It is sad that the elephant in the room is ignored in the article. We could have these folks locked up legally forever if we wouldn't have tortured them. Now if they get a trial they walk because of our actions.

The WWII generation are better than us. We have failed to keep the light of liberty shining. I hope we can fix this without just letting them go. All for information that has been proven to be primarily wrong or made up. Torture bites and we should be better, more American than that.

I LOVE it when Obama says one thing to get elected (the Arab world hates us, close Gitmo, prisoners of war have rights, etc.), then does the opposite. It show:
* How naive he was at the start, then;
* How he's trying to appease to the non-lliberals.
Hilarious. He had no clue, not he shows no loyalty to his base.

The Government has a lot to answer for to the US people in my humble oppinion, detaining people indefinately without charge, accused of the greatest crimes in American history, tortured, denied attorneys, denied access to the press, and denied their day in court so WE THE PEOPLE can hear in their own words as to their guilt or innocense.

Something is tragically wrong in America and I'd love to see Americans show as much concern for how are nations is being run as they do Egypt, Libya, Syria and Iran.

I agree with you. They still deserve a day in court. If we changed the country to China instead of the USA, we'd be up in arms and the media would run with it. 9/11 is forever a tragedy. Hitler if he did not kill himself would have gone on trial, just as Saddam went on trial. The guilty will still get what they deserve just as world history has taught us. I believe this will haunt us, that the future generations will challenge this action.

I'm an Obama supporter, but most assuredly NOT in this case. I fail to see how anyone can justify the maintenance of a system of concentration camps (and that's what they are) where prisoners are held indefinitely, without charges, and without access to counsel, and with no recourse and no hope of being released except by some fiat from some anonymous government official somewhere far away. This is not America folks. This is the USSR under Stalin and Germany under Hitler. Mr. President, you need to fix this problem NOW!

Even the NAZI had lawyers during the Nurnberg trails. Holding prisoners without any rights is wrong. We are following the path from a man who wrote a Book called "The Prince", written by in the 15th century.

Lol, tool. We did, we even SHOT them when they wouldn't talk... good gravy.

August 7, 2012 at 8:27 pm |

Big_D

So any of you law professors want to pipe up and tell us how they will convict a suspect after they have been tortured and denied their civil rights? I would love to hear from you. So would the USA in general.

It really gives me a good belly laugh when small minds toss around big words whose meaning they're utterly clueless about. If you know how to use a dictionary, or this interweb thing, you really should look up big words before you use them and make an 1d1ot out of yourself in front of the entire planet...

This is what we will be dealing with until the election. The GOP will bring up a problem they created by being idiots like torturing people and blame it on Obama. Obama doesn't want to release the terrorists but after they were tortured we lost any ability to convict them. GET IT?

No. If that were the explanation, he'd appologize on television, bow to them, and give them cottages on Martha's Vinyard. He's holding them because they are a danger, and he has realized that some things don't have a "nice" solution. I actually have no problem with his position in court; I just deeply resent all the hugs-and-kisses blather he spewed at us to get elected, either out of pure deceit or true ignorance. Either way, we elected a neophyte to lead us in our darkest hour in decades, and this is just one more example of why you shouldn't do that.

So who gets to decide what has a "nice solution" and what doesn't? You? Me? The President? Congress?

August 7, 2012 at 8:18 pm |

SeattleRob

Where's the surprise? This is just as it is for many American citizens. If you can't afford a $400 per hour for an attorney (or more), you've not got a chance to win a lawsuit or at being defended successfully in civil or criminal courts. America is about money – not justice.

They could let them all go half way home out a sea. If they swim back to Afghanistan I guess their free.

August 7, 2012 at 8:22 pm |

jrh

Short answer: Yes. If not, then where do you draw the line? The guy who mugged my dad? The guy who blew through the red light and nailed the ambulance, killing your aunt Flossie? This is a *very* slippery slope.

They were in the WTC. Everyone deserves due process. Nazi guards found decades later still get due process. Why not these people? Not everyone is guilty. There are plenty of people in jail who are innocent and they had their day in court; these men aren't even getting that.

Obama has reneged on most of his promises and just yesterday, The Washington Post, hardly a right-leaning news paper reported Obama has significantly reduced the openness of Govt. and in fact has opposed FOI more than the Bush Admin.

So you can torture people before a Military Court to get evidence? Wow, tell me more about your military court, in our country they operate under the Geneva Convention, what does your country operate under?

This is absolutely repugnant and disgusting. It gives me pause about voting to re-elect our President. I can't for the life of me understand anyone who thinks suspending the rule of law, is a way to enforce the law. It's ridiculous and flies in the face of everything this country stands for. If we can safely try McVeigh, Charles Manson, or many other notorious bad guys, what makes these guys at Gitmo, any different. It's pathetic.

I remember the liar in chief said he would close GTMO four years ago. Bungles1689 is right, if this was Bush CNN would broadcast it 18 hours a day for 6 months the outrage against Bush. The old democratic playbook double standard.

I know who does... I want to know why we should. These individuals weren't just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Whoever they were "working for" should be paying... or just let them swim home free.

In this regard, yes.. they are the same. In others.. not so much. Never mistake their agreement on one terrible thing with there being no difference between them at all. Nader did that... and we ended up with 8 years of Bush.

Universally accpeted legal system should triumph over any crime committed by anyone. anyone, including alleged terrorist are innocent until proven guilty;
Bad as they may be, inmates in Guantanmo bay deserve justice too. they have been held for too long now without due course of the law, so it is illegal. if they have gone against the law, charge them and execute, if not, let them live like normal human beings.

Thank you, straighttalk. I completely agree. These men do have a right not to be tortured. Whoever is authorizing these tortures themselves need to be indicted and brought to justice as at least 85% of these men held at Gitmo just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time! We need to adopt a more humain policy toward these detainees!!!

Wrong, this is not about justice. This is about safety, and political punishment. More U.S. citizens are killed because people like you are intent on promoting unrealistic expectations. Yes, the United States is exceptional, it does not torture and murder. It detains and interrogates. Much better than the gulag system....

That has to be one of the most naive and inane comments that I've ever read on these blogs. The US doesn't torture?. Unbelievable. Pull your head out of your @ss.

I dislike having to resort to an ad-hominum attack as a response – but you've left me no choice.

August 7, 2012 at 7:26 pm |

Patriarchae

Let me remind you that anyone who is willing to give up their rights for security deserves neither. And the US doesn't torture and murder? LOL. You are beyond naive. I love this country and I understand that we have more freedoms and a better legal system than most of the world... But that is exactly why we should NOT support things such as limiting access to lawyers, even in regards to suspected terrorists.

Send me all the foolish cliches you want. U.S. citizens rarely torture people, they pass those jobs on to citizens of other nations whom are more inclined. I was merely pointing out how much more wholesome the U.S. conducts itself compared to various Communist regimes. Since you brilliant individuals seem to have all the answers for the best form of government maybe you should create your own peoples temple...

August 7, 2012 at 9:35 pm |

William F. Phuckley

A sad retort from a sad person. Torture is torture. It is by no means less humane when applied by "us". You enjoy living in a media-induced fear. Others don't.

The brilliant Mr. Phuckley provides the best alternatives. All finger pointing! Detainment and interrogation for people who are proven to be affiliated with terror cells is far less dramatic than Soviet Communist methods. Do your research and you might learn to difference, or you could just sit on your computer and continue your ignorant finger pointing.

August 7, 2012 at 11:04 pm |

William F. Phuckley

So, the moron who believes that the US "does not torture and murder", calls anyone who rightfully disagrees with such gibberish "ignorant".

August 8, 2012 at 10:36 am |

really

Straigttalk, you sound just like candidate Obama. The guy I voted for.

You think they are normal? Killing to justify the Koran? I don't think so. You are talking about physcopaths that would shoot you and your sister, then go to lunch, all because you're not as smelly as they are.

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CNN's Security Clearance examines national and global security, terrorism and intelligence, as well as the economic, military, political and diplomatic effects of it around the globe, with contributions from CNN's national security team in Washington and CNN journalists around the world.