Microsoft and HTC cozy up in push for Win Phone 8, look to address ongoing issues

Earlier in the week Bloomberg stated that HTC had scrapped plans for a 5” or higher Windows Phone due to the inability of the OS to scale up to 1080P. Sure, the device could pass muster with 720P or 768P but for a major device like that to hit now or in early 2013 would behind the competition.

Now it’s being reported that Microsoft’s Ballmer met directly with the CEO of HTC, Peter Chou, when he passed through Taiwan recently. In of itself this is not news as the two mega CEOs reportedly exchange emails and meet several times a year. But in this case, the limiting resolution of the Windows Phone 8 and presumably other areas of contention were brought up.

Windows Phone 8 of course can scale up to higher resolutions but it requires the Windows Phone team to actually set the parameters and put it in the toolbox for manufactures (called an SDK). Originally, Windows Phone 8 supported four resolutions, including ironically a very low-resolution 480x640 that was scrapped just weeks before the June Summit. Why Microsoft did not perceive the immediate need for 1080P is not too clear, though presumably they were betting on devices with smaller displays taking priority.

Indeed the ‘phablet’ classification (devices with displays ranging over 5 inches) is still a new category that is being explored by OEMS. Most techies blew off Samsung’s Galaxy Note device as a gimmick that is until it sold very well prompting the development of the Note II (and even a Note III is being rumored already).

With no ability to reach for 1080P though, HTC sees Windows Phone 8 as unnecessarily handicapped, which we agree. (HTC just launched the Droid DNA on Verizon, featuring a 5” 1080P display, resulting in a staggering 441 PPI).

Ballmer's ad endorsing the HTC 8X

Bloomberg also goes on to cite HTC’s numbers that 70% of Windows Phone 8 ads feature the 8X Windows Phone, including Steve Ballmer’s “this is my Windows Phone” ad. While the relationship between Nokia and Microsoft is often emphasized, it is clear that HTC and Microsoft have a long history too and things are looking good between the companies. HTC recently reported increased revenue, partially due to the success of the HTC 8X (and now 8S) phones, which have garnered a lot of favorable attention.

The question remains though how fast Microsoft can try to please its OEM partners. And what about a 5” Windows Phone 8 device with 1080P made by HTC or even Nokia—would that be something you folks are interested in? Sound off in comments.

It may not be right for you, but it may be right for someone else. Remember, Windows Phone is advertised as the phone for "each of us," not "all of us." So while that applies to the customizable start screen, you could also extend it to lots of different device sizes.

However the OS does determine what screen resolutions are available.
The 800x480 resolution looks good enough on the 3.7inch screen of my Lumia 710, but would look horrible on a 5inch screen.
Plus many customers are "spec wh0res" and are overly concerned about silly specs instead of usability of the phone. Those people will go ga-ga over a 1080p phone with approx. 450 dpi. As useless as a phone with 1080p is, it is a great halo device that will get some people to take notice and consider a HTC Windows Phone.

Do people really still put "first!" on posts? That is the single most immature thing that could be done on a comment board, right behind making self glorifying statements that merely express preferences. "I don't like... it's not right for me..." these add nothing to the discussion. Sorry, I could not resist.
I agree that the 920 has a perfect screen size, but I absolutely think there's a market for the Note. I played with a Note II the other day and it does have some really cool features. No, it will not be for everyone, but that doesn't mean a company should not attempt a WP phablet. Who's to say it couldn't be a game changer.

I don't mind these kind of posts at all. Especially if the user gives a real reason - and not just that they hate vendor X in general. I want a real discussion. I tire of the posters that shout "Troll!" if somebody doesn't 100% support the post. No dissenting opinions wanted. I find I also want to hear about competitive devices. So I don't mind that if the discussion is about Windows Phone 8 and the Lumia 920, that users may still want to compare it to the Galaxy Note. As long as a logical discussion is provided, I'm game to read about it.

I think that 1080p is a necessity bc consumers look at specs; its just the reality. However, the truth is once you have a phone and use it, you no longer notice things like this unless you are doing side by side comparisons. That being said; I think 5" phones are too large. I just got the 8X and it is very comfortable for me but I can't imagine going larger than 4.5 or maybe 4.8.
Also, if Samsung did the Ativ S as a 4.8 screen; I am sure that a 5 inch isn't too much of a stretch.

I really think for many of those customers there should also be some awesome accessories by OEM for these phones too. Like a screen magnifier, a Bluetooth phone keyboard, and even some better power cases...etc =P

Windows phone 8 does feature the ease of access settings with a screen magnifier option, but like a lot of people I wouldn't mind seeing a 5" 1080p screen along with a quadcore qualcomm krait cpu with adreno 320 graphics. This is essentially what the Droid DNA is. Makes me wonder if they were testing Windows Phone 8 on this hardware at one time.

I would never use it as a phone in public, but I would love a Note II sized device. Especially if it came with stylus support. The Note II is the only Android device that I even gave a second look after a switched to WP.

The 5 inch phone isn't something I'm interested in, personally, but it definitely has a fan base and MS would be foolish not to jump on that bandwagon asap. Honestly I don't know why a 1080p resolution wasn't a priority in the first place.

Because a 1080p resolution is complete overkill on a phone sized device. People won't be able to tell the difference. There was a recent review of the screens on all the new phones. The HTC DNA didn'tt do that well. Even though it has the highest resolution, it suffered from a darker display and less accurate colors. They had the 52 and 920 at a near tie at the top. They said the higher resolution wasn't distinguishable. So, the question is why use a higher resolution that taxes the graphic processor and battery? The other review was that the DNA had some lag issue which they believed was due to the higher resolution.

Text will be sharper on a higher resolution screen. When reading text, color accuracy is secondary. I have been wanting a paper magazine like resolution on a phone for a long time. Our eyes can tell at reading distance.

Whoever made that limit on the Windows phone was very shortsighted. It’s funny that Android is having the same power as the old windows mobile and see how it thrived. Now MS is putting artificial limits on their OS because that’s what Apple did. It’s time to let the engineers make the technical decisions. An OS should not limit the hardware advances, period. Android has it's problems but I am sure MS woulnd't mind to be in that position.
Bill Gates would not have approved such artificial limits on the Windows phones.

That's not entirely true. Text will be sharper, but that can be achieved through software and lower resolution too. Haven't you seen the screen comparizon between the Surface and the Android-tablet that has higher resolution than the Ipad 2?
Text looks equally good on the Surface as it does on the Android-tablet, but because the Surface also shows all graphics at their native resolution (the Android-tablet up-samples the graphics) overall the Surface looks way better.

Most graphics today are made with a 1024x768 screen in mind, making higher resolutions essentially "overkill" since all graphical elements either has to be re-made in a higher resolution or they will look like crap on a screen smaller than 12" (because you zoom in more often). Apps can easily be "re-graphicaled" but surfing the web is just a horrible experience until all websites update their graphics.

Why compare to others. Just compare to itself. If RT had a higher resolution than the current one, the Text will be even sharper. Thus our eyes should be the ones to please. This is an Apple lead trend and it's a good one to follow.
BTW, RT is only better than the ones with similar resolutions. But "it is not as sharp as the iPad 3 or 4", according to displaymate http://www.displaymate.com/Surface_RT_ShootOut_1.htm.

Heck yes!!! I loved my Titan 2 and really the only complaint I have on my 920 is a small screen size. It just seems as though there is alot of real estate that is wasted that could have been functional screen, like all the area under the back, windows and search buttons.

Totally agree. T-II was a joy and if they make a 5" with the feel of the 8x but with less wasted space, I'm all in. It doesn't have to be as thin as the 8x, but not as thick as my 920 IMHO. Then again a good battery and thin bezel is important and the non slip back and rounded corners so its easy to hold it. There you go, I've designed it ;-). HaHa...

Given how hard VZW people push them, I doubt they are selling nearly as well as PR people would have you believe. I live in one of the areas where people have the disposable income to buy marketing's latest and greatest, and do so all the time, and I have only seen one in use. I do hear people joking about them though (generally that if they wanted to look that conspicuous they would buy a tablet and hold that to their ear). That nearly square LG abomination they are selling through VZW is also just embarrassing. Even VZW's staff don't direct people towards it.

I think the issue is, yes we don't expect current phones to suddenly become 1080p.
However one of the reasons MS used to state that upgrading wp7 phones to wp8 was not needed is that wp8 was partly to allow for higher specs and older phones cant take advantage of that. So, the concern is genuine that if MS adds new features then they'll leave current wp8 phones out in the cold regarding keeping pace.

Exacly, I still laugh when I see someone putting a note in their pocket, and even more so when they use it as a phone. Its a ridiculous size. If you want media consumption get a proper tablet even of its only a 7 inch tablet. 5/6 " is just ridiculous because it makes both a terrible phone and a mediocre tablet

I don't want a 5.5 inch standard windows phone. However, if they're gonna make a special version of OneNote and get some official video apps (vimeo/youtube) that can run in conjunction so you can annotate and watch, now im interested. If you're gonna recreate the palm pilot, get creative with some special applications that can leverage all that battery eating screen and a stylus. The Galaxy Note is huge but it serves a specific purpose. If they're not gonna duplicate it's functionality all they're gonna get is a bunch of people complaining about bad battery life.

While I believe that there is no technical need to go to 1080p, there seems to be a standarization need. HTC has decided to make a new generation of 4.7 inch devices like the OneXplus with a 1080p screen. Of course, the unit price of each LCD screen and also of the rest of the hardware depends heavily on volume. So, MS will probably have to support 1080p rather quickly on WP8 because of cost factors in the hardware. I still believe that 720768p is enough for 2013 for WP8, provided that HTC would also add a 4.7 inch device. But if HTC goes all 1080p, then it becomes a cost issue and thus WP8 must support 1080p, even if the screen is only 4.7 inches.

I would. I don't like devices sized between 4 and 5 inches. I think 4" is the best size for one handed usability and that if you want a big screen for media you need at least 5". I think anything inbetween is a comprimise that doesn't really do good at either. 4.3"+ devices become increasingly difficult to use one handed (I retruned my HTC Titan because of this) and devices smaller than 5" aren't really great for media cause they are still so small. Now that I work in a job were I can't use my cell phone (work in a prison, no personal electronics allowed, and we are in the mountains so I wouldn't have service even if they changed to policy), I almost never use it one handed, so the giant screen phones are starting to appeal to me. Hardware wise, the Galaxy Note II is the most appealing phone on the market to me, but I hate Android. The rumors of a 6"+ screen on the Note III have me seriously thinking I may have to return to Android unless MS allows 1080p and manufacturers bring some 5" or larger phones.

That is so unneeded i don't even know where to begin. 720/768 already provides a resolution where the human eye cannot see individual pixels when used at a distance that most normal people would hold a phone from their face.

Needed or wanted? If it's not needed, who makes that determination? If it not wanted the market will determine that through demand! And if you look at the market the phones with the largest displays also have the highest demand.

I originally expected Microsoft to go after the phablet market themselves but would love for them to work with HTC and Nokia as well.

Microsoft should be targeting the 5"+ market with everything it's got. Office and OneNote are core differentiators in the market and this is exactly where the strength of phablets lie. The Samsung Galaxy Note looks awfully clumsy and Microsoft could really win big if they nail that form factor. But they must act fast before Samsung and Android fill in the gap themselves.

To begin, a phone with a 5"display is just that - a phone - not a small tablet! It is the culmination of the natural evolution of technology. As we do more with our devices we need displays that can keep up with the applications that are being deployed in these devices. A 5" display is just the next step for people using their phones for business applications like Microsoft Word, Excel and Powerpoint as well as those who WANT a great entertainment device. Secondly the term "Phablet" just sounds Phreaking Phoolish! It is a ploy by people who think that a 4" display may be too large... It's an attemp to diminish those of us who desire a high end phones with large displays. Personally I think there have been far too many low end devices with puny displays. If these were selling well you wouldn't see the trend in the market for larger displays! So stop inventing words and let the industry evolve!

I can tell you the 1 billion dollars a year is delivered quarterly (250 million at a time). I have posted several times that as part of the deal, Nokia agrees to buy 'about' 250 million dollars a quarter worth of windows phone licenses, whether they sell them or not. They also provide mapping data and other IP. It seems they also promised to commit to Windows Phone, something that Microsoft obviously never promised in return. Microsoft seem to assume they'll have success in mobile and seem to be worried about losing control of that success to OEM's like Nokia. I think it makes sense that they don't want one OEM to control their destiny; unfortunately for Nokia, that's the case for them.

I know there were a few users who were stylus-friendly but I was under the impression that when Microsoft introduced the world its tablets with a stylus it induced mass vomiting the world over...and NOW everyone wants to use a stylus?!? #ThereIsNoJustice =/

Last night I was sad that after finally finding my old HTC Touch Pro 2 the stylus didn't work on my Lumia 920. I found a safety pin in the same location that the phone was and it worked jsut fine on the Lumia 920. Very weird. I wonder why taht is. Oh yeah also my DS stylus didn't work either.

While I'm wishing for things, I'd LOVE to have a Live tile section on my 360 that was its own "tab", rather than having to go into a segment. Bing / Live Tiles/ my xbox / social / games / video / etc .... And let me organize it the same way I organize my WP8 - up and down scrolling, tile resizing, etc.
WP8 > W8 > XBox Metro > everything else (from a live tile perspective)

Also, I want to be able to categorize sections of my live tiles (like W8).

No desire for 5" phone. Also don't think 1080p is needed technically. But they need to do it to satisfy all the spec hoars. I might be interested in a 7" device though.. For movies, books, and such. Not sure if that should be WP8 or W8.

Have to say that I was a proponent of smaller screens until I took some time to play w/the Note. Personally, I spend all my time texting/surfing/viewing video... Basically anything but making a phone call(ie., holding the device up to my ear). However, I like a sturdy piece of hardware. My 920 feels like a well-built, high quality device whereas the GS3/Note feel cheap. If Nokia were to make a Note-sized device and could keep thickness down... I'd probably be all over it!

I have to be missing some math because I don't understand why 1080p vs 720p is such an issue on a 5" device when we are all watching 1080p on 60" screens where the pixel size must be gigantic in comparison.

Nokia will introduce new gadgets in Feburary. I have ans cyan Lumia 900 and love it. Being patient for my next purchase. Would like Yellow 920, Head phones, JBL wireless speakers, Surface with yellow keyboard.

The next Galaxy S3 is rumored to have a 5" 1080p screen so it looks like larger HD screens are here to stay...at least for a while.
The next Galaxy Note is rumored to have a 6.3" screen and that will be huge. I have the Galaxy Note 2 and with a case on it is just a hair too big for me. But I love the performance, the stylus, and the big screen.
I really wanted a high end WP device but being on Verizon there wasn't one. The 8x had the same size screen as my old Droid-X but was bigger phone. I don't mind bigger if I get a larger screen. I was really hoping for an Ativ-S like phone on VZW but just got tired of waiting, not to mention, my old phone was about to die. So thanks to a gift card and a great price match at Best Buy I got the Note 2 last weekend for less than an 822. If the VZW Samsung comes out in the next week I might consider swapping but I am not holding my breath.

I might like one. I just got my 920... and it's pretty funny after reading all the hub bub - the first thing I thought was "this could stand to be bigger... and it is so light." (Probably because I've had a 4.1" 500 lb Dell Venue Pro for the past 21 months... Having just got the 920, I won't be in the market for a while, I'm sure. But I might consider a 5" phone next time around. 4.1 < 4.5 < 5

The only news in this is that the two CEOs met. The rest is all pure speculation grounded in nothing more than wishful thinking. I seriously doubt the two talked devices any more than Ballmer and Adobe's CEO talked about a new version of Acrobat. As for a large Windows Phone device appearing any time soon, don't get your hopes up. They are trying to get a foothold in the market, these devices do not make up a market of their own; and as a market sector it is dominated by one OS and one hardware company. Release a new large device and you are not generating any significant share. As even the responses here would indicate response would either be flat or would involve cannibalizing sales from your other devices.

I disagree here. If you look at a lot of industries, the top of the line model is often a product that shapes the image of the manufacturer. Look at AUDI and its RS series, BMW M series, DB AMG models. Customers pay premium for these, but if you look at the C63, M3, RS4... they're less of cash cows than you might think. What they do is that they improve the image of the manufacturer and move the normaly priced products.

I still don't understand how can anyone actually use a 5 inch device as a phone... Unless you have a Bluetooth earpiece you look even more ridiculous than someone who takes pictures with a tablet. Not to mention how extremely uncomfortable it must be to have in your pocket. Another thing that is absolutely unnecessary is higher dpi. I absolutely doubt that ppi any higher than 320 can be noticed. All that being said, the more choices available for wp8 the better for the ecosystem so bring it on

Not sure abotu a 5" screen but then again don't look at the Note or Note II look at HTC's own DNA. This guy at my job got one and it's nice. I see the market for 1080p as viable. I think 5" is the sweet spot though. The Notes look awkward IMO.

Well, I think for a marketing point of view.. A 5" phablet may work.. Btw, "PHABLET" need to be in the dictionary.. ;).. But I think the note works by having a stylus and the ability to write.. So an over sized phone needs more than just an over sized screen. It needs something that makes sense for a 5" screen. Not just to watch movies.

Ah yeah. You know there will always be those people who will swear they won't be satisfied until they have a device with a 500ghz pentacore processor, 100GB of Ram and a couple TB of storage, etc etc. Unbelievable of course is that a few months later they'd be wanting way more. Forgive the soapbox, I just don't respect people who make demands that are quite beyond necessary. The eyes can't distinguish pixel depth beyond 760p but somehow that's not good enough. Also, what size is the final point that determines what is a tablet and what is a phone? I agree with some of the other posters that after a certain point, you'd might as well just get a tablet. Personally, 5" is my max but I'm satisfied as hell with the L900. I'm sticking by Nokia because they are the only manufacturer not cranking out a couple dozen Android models a year; Windows Phone is what they do.
Rather than unnecessary tech that is beyond what can really be utilized, I'd rather see new and improved upgrades in battery life or something viable. Memory possibly but I never understood the use of carrying a bunch of blu-ray quality movies around on a phone. Hmm.

Give me a Phone that has a 5 or 5.5 inch Screen with Windows 8. Also, give it to me with a FULL QWERTY Keyboard just like the HTC ARRIVE. I do a LOT of Typing on a Daily basis and what would be the deciding factor if and when I Upgrade is if the Phone HAS a FULL QWERTY Keyboard or NOT. At this point, whenever there is a NEW Windows 8 Phone that HAS a FULL QWERTY Keyboard, that WILL be what I WILL Consider Upgrading to. I have had a few HTC Phones that started with the HTC Touch then the HTC Touch Pro, then the HTC Touch Pro 2 and Now the HTC Arrive. The Touch was the only one without a QWERTY Keyboard. When I got the HTC Touch Pro with the QWERTY Keyboard, I was hooked. Now, I DEMAND to UPGRADE to a Phone that HAS a FULL QWERTY Keyboard for now on, on ALL of the Future Phones that I WILL have. I hope that HTC R&D Department and CEO PETER CHO takes Notice that there is still a DEMAND for FULL QWERTY Keyboards on Phones.

I say to EVERYONE that feels the same as me, to Call and E-Mail HTC and let them know that YOU WANT a FULL QWERTY Keyboard on your Next HTC phone.

5 inch Windows Phone 8 sounds like a dream come true to me...i have big hands and i currently own the 8X since this was the best T-Mobile had to offer...great phone imo but just to small...people want options and no since of MS not getting in the Phablet market share...this should definitely be a priority for MS goin into 2013...HTC needs to step their app game up if they wanna compete against the almighty Nokia...ijs

i would love a samsung ativ note...with permission to change the os a little so they could ad a couple features like how if you hold the button and make a circle you can save that circle anywhere, anytime, and anything

Wp7 was handicapped with a 800x480 resolution. Now they capped wp8 with 720p. While great, why did they cap it? Where's the forward thinking? Everyone and their mom knew a 1080p phone was eventually gonna come. Once again, windows phones will be overlooked when the flood of 1080p phones hits the market. Who runs Microsoft?! Honestly.

My girlfriend and I love our Lumia 920's!
The instant the preorder goes up for a Windows 1080p phone, I will be one of the first ordering!
While we are at it- let's get a full Windows 8 Pro OS on the phone! Now that would be amazing!

It is really amazing that Microsoft behaves like this. Does the company actually look on and compare it's platform against the competitors? Focusing on features no body really cares about and looks att lower resolutions, not higher ones? Wohoo smart!!
I have a HTC 8X at the moment and things about WP 8 just makes me tired. Take the sound volume for an example. Turning it down turns the ringer volume down to! How STUPID, STUPID, STUPID isn't that?!

A 5" 1080p phone would be cool, but 1080p on a phone isn't something I really care much about. 1080p is hardly noticeable at 4.5"-5" screen sizes since the image is already smaller than your typical TV set. But if they want to support it going forward, I'm game. I don't know how Samsung makes a phone that can fit in your hands at 4.8", but they make it happen (if you don't have small hands, anyways). The Galaxy Note is an aweful phone to me. It has zero practicality. People say "look, I can write notes!". I say "look, I can write MORE & LEGIBLE notes just using an on-screen keyboard. I also can type faster than write on a smartphone screen with a stylus. I have a tablet and a smartphone, I don't need a cross between the two. Seriously, why people bought the phone is beyond me. All that to say that 5" pushes the limit for me, so I don't know if it would be my thing. But they DO need to make something larger than the 8X's 4.3" Super LCD 2 screen. I would think the 4.7" screen size on their former Titan line would be a good place to settle.

While I personally think 5+ inch screens are insanely stupid and 1080p to be overkill, they are things that apparently sell phones so it's in Microsoft's best interest to support them. That said it shouldn't be particularly difficult to do. There's no technical limitation on it, especially once S4 Pro devices start rolling out so it really is just a matter of adding the parameters to the SDK. Since it already supports 720p there won't be an issue of adding another aspect ratio (although let's not get into the topic of apps that actually support 16:9 right now)

I think it's a bit absurb to put a screen like that in a mobile. I'm perfectly happy with the WVGA in my 900. Compared to the 920, I don't notice that much of a difference. Sure you can argue text, but I still prefer the AMOLED contrast vs the LCD contrast than sharpness. Sure push having a 1080 display, but that's just going to drive price up of that device, when their current device really only matches up the 2nd tier phone from Nokia, but is still priced at Nokia's 1st tier phone. How much more for a more premium phone costing more just because it has a huge screen with a ridiculous resolution. It would be cool, but tell that to a normal consumer and they could careless because their iPhone looks good enough. It just isn't a selling point. I'll hand it to them if they push for active digitizer support (it's using the Windows core so it should be able to tap that) because at 5" that makes sense to make it a portable notepad. If someone wanted it for media consumption they should probably just get a tablet at that point, portable and large screened.

For now 720p/WXGA seems appropriate. But even if someday I want to buy an 1080p screen smartphone, I'd prefer the size to be in the range of 4.3/4.7" at most. Anything above that (tried N/NII didn't like the size) is more of a hassle IMHO.

Yes, I am interested in a 5.5" (or larger) phablet and have delayed upgrading my current Verizon phone because the specs of the current window phones don't meet my current needs and expectations. My main concern is the size and lack of 1080p support. I plan to use a combination of windows 8 phones, tablets and PCs to run my home automation (lights, heat\air, security, door locks etc) and home theater systems. I would like to say goodbye to my TV remotes,garage door openers, pushing keys on my keyless door locks, etc. I am extremely excited about the new window 8 ecosystem and the synergies that it brings to home automation and entertainment. markets. Since, the phones don't meet my needs today I will concentrate my initial efforts in building out my home automation ecosystem on the Surface tablets and PC using windows 8. However, I am hoping improvements to the specs of the window 8 phone appear in the market August 2013.