What the actual fuck? So anything but a Vic classic is basically banned now?

Go fuck yourselves CITT.

Six random unelected dickbags just determined what is illegal in Canada, apparently completely ignoring the criminal code definition of prohibited weapons.

DrCaleb
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Posts: 26245

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:54 am

Tricks wrote:

What the actual fuck? So anything but a Vic classic is basically banned now?

Go fuck yourselves CITT.

Six random unelected dickbags just determined what is illegal in Canada, apparently completely ignoring the criminal code definition of prohibited weapons.

Quote:

Automatic knife – Opens automatically by applying hand pressure to a button, spring, lever, or other device, in or attached to the handle of the knife, including knives that have a button, spring, lever, or other device located in the spine of the handle and attached to the inner part of the blade

Centrifugal knife (folding knife, butterfly knife, balisong knife) – Opens automatically through the use of centrifugal force, moving in a circular path and directed away from [the center of the body]; i.e., can be opened with a flick of the wrist

Gravity knife – Can be opened automatically by force of gravity even if the knife can be additionally controlled by a lever or button

Push dagger – The handle is placed perpendicular to the main cutting edge of the blade (or blades) and any other similar device

“Constant Companion” (Belt buckle knife) – A belt containing a blade capable of being withdrawn from the belt

Concealed blades under 30 cm – Any device having a length of less than 30 cm and resembling an innocuous object but designed to conceal a knife or blade; e.g., “knife combs,” penknives, lipstick knives, certain types of necklace knives, and knives contained in credit-card-sized cases clearly resembling real credit cards and designed as weapons

These have always been illegal. Anything that is meant to be a weapon, and not a tool.

Quote:

That said, the CBSA does outline some knives that are not prohibited:

Sword canes/umbrella daggers more than 30 cm in length – Swords contained in canes, frequently where the handle of the cane also serves as a handle for the sword sheathed inside the cane’s/umbrella’s shaft

Multi-tools/card tools – Credit-card-sized plastic cases that contain a number of small functional items such as scissors, a compass, and tweezers; these tools will almost always include a small blade or knife that is concealed by the plastic case; they are not designed as weapons but as functional tools

Certain thumb stud knives – Knives having “thumb studs” attached to the blade that are independent of the handle (not protruding from the handle in the closed or folded position), and that open automatically by applying pressure to the thumb studs

Not really. Most tools can readily be used, and have been used, as weapons.

But they are still meant to be tools. A butterfly knife is not meant to be a tool, it is meant as a weapon. "Intent" is always a factor in the law, eg: using a hammer as a weapon is different than using a faux Katana.

Not really. Most tools can readily be used, and have been used, as weapons.

But they are still meant to be tools. A butterfly knife is not meant to be a tool, it is meant as a weapon. "Intent" is always a factor in the law, eg: using a hammer as a weapon is different than using a faux Katana.

That said, I wonder why a sword disguised as as cane is legal.

Butterfly knives are fun. I've never actually seen one use as a weapon. Growing up, most of us used butterfly knives the way younger kids used yoyos--to learn new tricks and show off.

The knives pictured in the article don't look like much in the way of weapons to me, but then one man's tool is another's weapon.

Thanos
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Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:12 pm

How about a registry and a safety course first before you're allowed to carry? Here's some class material they could use.

Tricks
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Posts: 21099

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:13 pm

DrCaleb wrote:

Automatic knife – Opens automatically by applying hand pressure to a button, spring, lever, or other device, in or attached to the handle of the knife, including knives that have a button, spring, lever, or other device located in the spine of the handle and attached to the inner part of the blade

Doesn't apply because of the bolded part

Quote:

Centrifugal knife (folding knife, butterfly knife, balisong knife) – Opens automatically through the use of centrifugal force, moving in a circular path and directed away from [the center of the body]; i.e., can be opened with a flick of the wrist

This is the one in question. The current ruling changes the definition of this. In the past it was applied to a closed knife, i.e. if a knife is closed and you could flick it open, it was considered a centrifugal knife. Now, they've changed it so that if it has been opened part way, and can be flicked open. This is virtually every folding knife on the market. Hell the classic buck 110 could probably be flicked open.

that would make these now banned:

Quote:

These have always been illegal. Anything that is meant to be a weapon, and not a tool.

Wrong. Below is a previous CBSA ruling allowing assisted knives to be imported. The change just happened to not allow them, based on a ruling from the CITT. A knife is only a weapon when used as such, or carried with that intention, otherwise it should default as a tool.

That knife by their definition is now banned. It is no more a weapon than the buck 110 is, so why should one be banned and not the other?

Quote:

Certain thumb stud knives – Knives having “thumb studs” attached to the blade that are independent of the handle (not protruding from the handle in the closed or folded position), and that open automatically by applying pressure to the thumb studs

What does that even mean? How is a thumb stud supposed to be used if it can't protrude above the handle? Or is this just a shit description by stupid bureaucrats who have never carried a knife in their lives.

Not really. Most tools can readily be used, and have been used, as weapons.

But they are still meant to be tools. A butterfly knife is not meant to be a tool, it is meant as a weapon. "Intent" is always a factor in the law, eg: using a hammer as a weapon is different than using a faux Katana.

That said, I wonder why a sword disguised as as cane is legal.

We aren't talking about butterfly knives. We are talking about everyday folding knives.

DrCaleb
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Posts: 26245

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:27 pm

Tricks wrote:

that would make these now banned:

Quote:

These have always been illegal. Anything that is meant to be a weapon, and not a tool.

Wrong. Below is a previous CBSA ruling allowing assisted knives to be imported. The change just happened to not allow them, based on a ruling from the CITT. A knife is only a weapon when used as such, or carried with that intention, otherwise it should default as a tool.

That knife by their definition is now banned. It is no more a weapon than the buck 110 is, so why should one be banned and not the other?

The Buck (in my experience) needs two hands to open. At least, all of mine, and my old Timer need that. The Kershaw can be opened with the thumb using the protruding stud.

I agree that arbitrariness in interpreting law is vile, but I can at least see the intent of it. It's a matter of the 'red veil'. When you are angry, it's much harder to whip out your Buck and lock the blade. The Kershaw just needs a simple thumb flick, and out it comes.

I sometimes carry an old Henkell 'Swiss' Army knife. It is not easy to get any implement out of that thing, so it's therefore a tool, not a weapon. There seems to be a lot of grey area in the knife industry as to what the knife is for. I see your anger, and I don't agree with the ruling, but I understand it.

Thanos
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Posts: 24161

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:33 pm

I can get my Buck knife open fairly quickly with one hand but it's still a long way off from being as versatile and instantly put to lethal use as rapidly as a butterfly knife or switchblade can be.

Tricks
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Posts: 21099

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:34 pm

DrCaleb wrote:

The Buck (in my experience) needs two hands to open. At least, all of mine, and my old Timer need that. The Kershaw can be opened with the thumb using the protruding stud.

The buck can be opened if it's loosened, any knife can.

Quote:

I agree that arbitrariness in interpreting law is vile, but I can at least see the intent of it. It's a matter of the 'red veil'. When you are angry, it's much harder to whip out your Buck and lock the blade. The Kershaw just needs a simple thumb flick, and out it comes.

Anyone who carries the same knive every day is able to open a knife in split seconds. It's muscle memory.

Quote:

I sometimes carry an old Henkell 'Swiss' Army knife. It is not easy to get any implement out of that thing, so it's therefore a tool, not a weapon. There seems to be a lot of grey area in the knife industry as to what the knife is for. I see your anger, and I don't agree with the ruling, but I understand it.

The speed of which something comes out should never determine if it's a weapon or not, that's nonsense. That would mean any fixed blade knife is a weapon. Because it's always immediately available. It is the intent that matters. I carry a pocket knife every day with no intention of using it as a weapon. It is there to cut things, I use it every day. Am I expected to stop carrying this because 6 old fuckers who don't understand the difference between a flipper and an auto said it's bad? That's fucking ridiculous.

Tricks
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Posts: 21099

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:34 pm

Thanos wrote:

I can get my Buck knife open fairly quickly with one hand but it's still a long way off from being as versatile and instantly put to lethal use as rapidly as a butterfly knife or switchblade can be.

Butterfly knives and switchblades have been illegal for a while, those aren't under discussion.

xerxes
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Posts: 14129

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:35 pm

Same here. I've got a classic buck knife like that and it needs to hands to open. Ironically, the knives I'm supposed to use at my work would be banned now as they can be flicked open one-handed.

martin14
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Posts: 32072

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:38 pm

Tricks wrote:

What the actual fuck? So anything but a Vic classic is basically banned now?

I'm sure Kirpans are still just fine to wear in the open.

See, you just need to convert, be more multikulti.

Tricks
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Posts: 21099

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:41 pm

Quote:

In a statement issued to KnifeNews, the CBSA clarified their new authority based on the most recent CITT decision. “This means any folding knife is not permitted for import into Canada where the blade can be extracted and locked into place with centrifugal force when, prior to use of centrifugal force, an item on the blade, such as a stud, disc or flipper; or a hollowing in the blade is used to partially open the blade.”

So if you can open it half way, and flick the rest of the way open, illegal.