I'm surprised that the dictionary doesn't label this meaning of "addirittura" as dated or obsolete. It is labelled as such in all my dictionaries. The Oxford/Paravia does not even bother to record this particular meaning.

You see - not knowing that the word is obsolete in this meaning could lead to misunderstandings. One dictionary I have gives the following example:

E' andata addirittura dal medico

for the "straight away" meaning. But - and I would appreciate feedback from other native speakers here - most people would understand this example to mean:

Dear PeriG
I'm sorry , but I have to disagree
Addirittura = absolutely - completely - straight away - even
You can use it like you do in English. Anyway , the use of "even" is for italians as difficult as "addirittura" is for you...
Vittorio52

No, the word isn't obsolete. moodywop only started a conversation about the one usage (straightaway). Never heard it as an insult, though. That's curious. Can those friends who said so suggest some examples? Sigo cercando... continuo a cercare?

No, Addirittura is never insulting, it is sometimes used as exclamation : Addirittura! = At this point! - Incredible! - Gorgeous!
I remember a man, using this exclamation in a very very personal way. When he met a good looking lady he regularly whispered to the nerarest friend... "Addirittura!" to mean :"I couldn't imagine that could exist a so 'gifted' lady!" But It was a very, and I repeat, very personal way to use the word..
Vittorio52

My old Palazzi-Folena Dictionary marks the meaning(direttamente,immediatamente) as disusato.

Of course dictionary usage labels are just wild generalizations. That's why I'd still like to hear from other native speakers. Alessandro has already told us that it is in no way obsolete to him and I wouldn't be surprised if several members agreed with him.

It's just as easy to use as "really?" in English...
To my mind and to my experience (and as someone has already said) you can use it as an answer to someone who is telling something that goes "over" its real skills...in this sense i usually use "addirittura" in an ironic (but not at all offensive) way...

Ex. Yesterday i went with my friends in 3 different discos, i drunk 10 different cocktails and i kiss 5 different girls...

Answer: Addirittura?!? (Meaning: don't you think your story is just a little bit oversized?!?)

Moreover i use it when someone is speaking with me of something that i don't really want to hear nor discuss..this way saying sometimes "addirittura!!!" randomly but wisely, encourage your interlocutor to go on and you give him the impression you are participating to "his" telling...

Is there a difference between "addirittura" and "addiritura."
The latter seems to be more of an exclamation, while the former, an adverb. Is that a correct assumption?
Per esempio:
Angelo: "Ho appena vinto la lotteria!"
Andrea: "Addiritura?!"

Right after I joined - in the golden days of IE - a learner enquired about "addirittura". Both some bilingual and some monolingual dictionaries listed the obsolete meaning ("straight" in the "without stopping on the way" sense) without any usage label, next to the only current meanings("even" and "addirittura!" on its own conveying surprise at an incomprehensibe/crazy/etc action).

This would lead a foreign learner to translate "he went straight to the station" as "andò addirittura alla stazione" (an obsolete use, the current word being "direttamente"). This would lead to serious misunderstandings.

More reliable dictionaries list the obsolete sense of "addirittura" as "antico" etc. And yet a member from Liguria who doesn't post here any more curtly dismissed my observation, saying that the obsolete sense was actually still current.

The most reliable bilingual dictionary I have examined is called, if my memory serves me right, the Harper Collins dictionary (by British authors). I gave it to my niece so I'm not able to provide more info - links to Amazon and the like are not allowed here.

EDIT: I have just checked the dictionaries in my possession. The ones not marking the obsolete sense with a usage label are the majority: Hazon/Garzanti, Sansoni, SEI, the concise Devoto/Oli, Sabatini/Coletti.

My often reliable, but lamentably far from impeccable (and now probably outdated), Hazon Garzanti gives this sense (unlabelled) as the third and last sense: "(direttamente) = straight away". After thus managing to avoid the more orthodox spelling, straightaway, it then gets its knickers in a twist by exemplifying that with: "non si è limitato a telefonare, è venuto addirittura" (displaying semantic confusion with its own sense 2: (nientedimeno, persino))

Collins (HarperCollins)? Yes, for my money, they're the all-round best English bilingual dictionaries in many languages, especially the Collins Robert (French) (which was ground-breaking in its day). I await to see what they come up with their new, fuller desk-size English-Italian (my copy, pub. 1995 and reprinted 2003, is too small for my purposes) -- I understand they're bringing out a new one.

I have gotten much use out of an "Italian and English Dictionary with pronunciation and brief etymologies by Hjalmar Edgren, PhD." published by Henry Holt and Company New York copyright 1901 and 1920. I afraid it simply lists "ad=dirittùra, adv.: directly; openly; absolutely" so you won't like that. But it's helped me the most when translating my opera librettos and getting the right pronunciation. So give us bods a nod when you're working on your new dictionary. ;-)

I always thought of "addirittura" as meaning "really." I can see now that it doesn't, exactly. Except that: American that I am, when I want to say "really" ("That was really nice of you"), often "addirittura" is the word that best fits.

I read Vincenzo's comment to mean: "You immediately play the South card...", - i.e. suggesting that the Northerer (Paul) jumps to the immediate and unhesitating assumption that any difference from his own manner of behaviour must be a "Southern" trait.

In much the same way, in England, a Northerner would accuse a Southerner of "always playing the Northern card..."

I mentioned my above translation to my Italian friend (who is an Italian madrelingua, who lives and teaches (Italian) in Bari...and he said that my translation of "addiritura" to mean "immediately" or "straight away" was incorrect, and that instead the sentence should be translated as:

"Even you play the Southern card...." (ie. with the meaning close to "persino".)

Now, to my mind, there is a huge difference between the two sentences.

"You immediately play the Southern card" suggests (to me) that this is the habitual behaviour of that person. It implies an ingrained and anticipated prejudice.

On the other hand, "Even you play the Southern card..." suggests that the speaker is surprised at uncovering evidence of prejudice in the words of the other person, and is somewhat taken aback and disappointed by this discovery (which implies that such behaviour is not habitual).

Which translation is right? You immediately jump or Even you play.. ? Or are both translations possible, and the words are simply ambiguous, or determined by context and what one knows of the two participants?

I think in the case you mentioned, the meaning of addirittura is slightly different from "even" or "straight away". It's more something like (excuse my English): You went so far as to play the Southern card!

Nowadays the Garzanti example (non si è limitato a telefonare, è venuto addirittura)would be interpreted quite differently from the way it's translated in the dictionary: He didn't just call us on the phone. He actually came here (with the implication either that that was uncalled for or that it was extremely nice of him).

I can't speak for Vincenzo, of course, but to me his remark was clearly jocular. He used "addirittura" in the "nientemeno" senso, rather than "persino"("even"). Something like "now...really...fancy playing the Southern card!".

Nowadays the Garzanti example (non si è limitato a telefonare, è venuto addirittura)would be interpreted quite differently from the way it's translated in the dictionary: He didn't just call us on the phone. He actually came here (with the implication either that that was uncalled for or that it was extremely nice of him).

I can't speak for Vincenzo, of course, but to me his remark was clearly jocular. He used "addirittura" in the "nientemeno" senso, rather than "persino"("even"). Something like "now...really...fancy playing the Southern card!".

Ah, thank you! I didn't realise the usage immediately was obsolete, and I could practically hear the echoes in my head of one English person saying to another (whether jokingly or not) "You immediately play that card...."

I agree that Vincenzo's remark was definitely made tongue in cheek (the s were a bit of a giveaway!) but I just couldn't grasp the nuances! Thanks to you and the previous posters I now understand perfectly!

If games are being thrown in my honor, I should be allowed to attend to them!

Others have already discussed all there was to be discussed, and as such everything has been made perfectly clear. Just the same, if I may have the pleasure of quoting myself...

"Addirittura ti giochi la carta del "terrone"??!?!?!??".

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In English, I think I might have said: "Now, you (went so far as to) play the South card, no less!".

In this context, "addirittura" has nothing to do with "immediately" or "straight away", neither is it meant to suggest "even YOU..!!" ("perfino TU...!!"). I'm also quite puzzled at understanding that a native speaker of Italian would place that interpretation on it.

More than anything, it is intended to convey surprise at a most unexpected move; but it says nothing in particular, per se, as to the circumstances which may have generated that surprise.

That would be all. Thank you for your attention.

V.

PS - My thanks to housecameron for drawing my attention on this thread...

In this context, "addirittura" has nothing to do with "immediately" or "straight away", neither is it meant to suggest "even YOU..!!" ("perfino TU...!!"). I'm also quite puzzled at understanding that a native speaker of Italian would place that interpretation on it.

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I think it's possible that the Italian speaker didn't misinterpret the use of "addirittura" but simply placed the English word "even" in the wrong place in the sentence. "Even" emphasises the words that follow it, so:

If games are being thrown in my honor, I should be allowed to attend to them!

Others have already discussed all there was to be discussed, and as such everything has been made perfectly clear. Just the same, if I may have the pleasure of quoting myself...

In English, I think I might have said: "Now, you (went so far as to) play the South card, no less!".

In this context, "addirittura" has nothing to do with "immediately" or "straight away", neither is it meant to suggest "even YOU..!!" ("perfino TU...!!"). I'm also quite puzzled at understanding that a native speaker of Italian would place that interpretation on it.

More than anything, it is intended to convey surprise at a most unexpected move; but it says nothing in particular, per se, as to the circumstances which may have generated that surprise.

That would be all. Thank you for your attention.

V.

PS - My thanks to housecameron for drawing my attention on this thread...

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Hi Vincenzo, I hope I haven't caused offence by quoting your puzzling sentence! This certainly wasn't my intention, and I can't believe it didn't enter my head to send you a PM, which would have been the sensible way to clear up my confusion! Sorry!!!

In certain dictionaries the "immediate" meaning is shown as obsolete, and in others it shows up as a current usage. Despite it not corresponding with your avowed intent to convey "no less", I think Giovanni's "Now...really...playing the southern card..." sounds wonderful in English, and perfectly captures the mixture of good humour and mild irony underpinning the original sentence....but this is obviously a case of outside listeners putting their own interpretation onto someone else's words! Your statement has entered the "public domain", and ignorant idiots like myself will bend the meaning if necessary to make it "fit" with what we think it ought to mean!

Incidentally, I find these discussions fascinating, because some words lend themselves so well to multiple interpretations and delicately nuanced shades of meaning! Thanks for providing such a fine example!

"Really!" is EXACTLY what I say in those circumstances (which, fortunately, still do happen to me).

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Hi Rival,

Doesn't "addirittura" have a sense of mocking disbelief to it here? For me, "Really!" doesn't really (ha! ) bring that to the table - in fact, you might say that, if the 35 year old here were to say "Really!", it would sound as he he really didn't believe the person giving him the compliment - when in fact he only wants to give the impression that he doesn't believe him out of a faux sense of self-deprecation/through a false sense of modesty.

For me, CPA's suggestions are spot on. A simple "No!" might also be an option.