Re: The U.S. Cuts Food Stamps, Farm Subsidies

Hey, you guys have seen a few scammers. Guess what? Scammers exist everywhere, from Wall Street to the farm system to poor people on EBT. But a good amount of them aren't. I also worked at a grocery store for two years, and for every person using change to buy a 40 to go along with their foodstamp purchases, there was a family getting vegetables, chicken and healthy food that they couldn't otherwise afford. Should we switch foodstamps over to something like WIC, where specific items are required for each coupon? Well then, what if you have a family that absolutely hates fish, and they are given a protein allotment for ten cans of tuna, but nothing else (like WIC does.) Too bad, you're poor and you can't make your own decisions?

It's so fun to judge in libertarian land where everyone is evil and we have to stockpile socks for the impending economic explosion.

Re: The U.S. Cuts Food Stamps, Farm Subsidies

I smoke. It's expensive. It's also the best option. You see, I am always, always exhausted. It's a stimulant. When I am too tired to walk one more step, I can smoke and go for another hour. When I am enraged and beaten down and incapable of accomplishing one more thing, I can smoke and I feel a little better, just for a minute. It is the only relaxation I am allowed. It is not a good decision, but it is the only one that I have access to. It is the only thing I have found that keeps me from collapsing or exploding.

Re: The U.S. Cuts Food Stamps, Farm Subsidies

Re: The U.S. Cuts Food Stamps, Farm Subsidies

Originally Posted by bmack86

Hey, you guys have seen a few scammers. Guess what? Scammers exist everywhere, from Wall Street to the farm system to poor people on EBT. But a good amount of them aren't. I also worked at a grocery store for two years, and for every person using change to buy a 40 to go along with their foodstamp purchases, there was a family getting vegetables, chicken and healthy food that they couldn't otherwise afford. Should we switch foodstamps over to something like WIC, where specific items are required for each coupon? Well then, what if you have a family that absolutely hates fish, and they are given a protein allotment for ten cans of tuna, but nothing else (like WIC does.) Too bad, you're poor and you can't make your own decisions?

It's so fun to judge in libertarian land where everyone is evil and we have to stockpile socks for the impending economic explosion.

You CHOOSE to go onto government assistance and agree to their conditions, just like when you use Google you agree to their terms and conditions. If you don't like fish then maybe that helps motivate you to go get a skill and a good job.

While I know you are painting libertarians with a broad brush, at least get it right

A more accurate oversimplification of libertarians would be more like: People are good, but a paternalistic government corrupts them and I have a chest full of gold buried in the back yard and my garage is an armory.

Libertarians trust people to make decisions that are right for them, it's the progressives who believe that people are too stupid and that government must protect them from their own decision making.

Re: The U.S. Cuts Food Stamps, Farm Subsidies

Originally Posted by summerkid

You CHOOSE to go onto government assistance

We can just stop here because it shows how profoundly you misunderstand the majority of people receiving assistance. So a person with a severe disability and no family support can just up and get a skill and find a job? Or an elderly person who worked at a decent job and received a pension until the company paying the pension folded? Or children who have no control over what circumstances they were born into. And the choice between accepting something that most recipients find humiliating and starving is not a choice. You obviously don't think people are good or trust them to make decisions if this is how you view the situation. But I guess the comfy life in San Diego allows you to wear those Limbaugh-colored glasses with ease.

Re: The U.S. Cuts Food Stamps, Farm Subsidies

I've never fully understood the right's fetish to scrutinize the shopping habits of people using the EBT program. There is no similar demand to scrutinize the decision making process of people spending their social security benefits or earned income credit tax returns or pell grants or unemployment benefits. But something far more basic as a social good -- providing people with barely adequate food security -- inspires all of this moral outrage and scrutiny. "How dare you, poor person, buy Oreos or crab legs!"

Re: The U.S. Cuts Food Stamps, Farm Subsidies

Yeah, fuck you dude. Just pull yourself up from your bootstraps, ignore your lungs and get a skill. Oh, and somehow pay for the schooling to do so. You know, because american ingenuity just works that way.

Re: The U.S. Cuts Food Stamps, Farm Subsidies

Originally Posted by bmack86

We can just stop here because it shows how profoundly you misunderstand the majority of people receiving assistance. So a person with a severe disability and no family support can just up and get a skill and find a job? Or an elderly person who worked at a decent job and received a pension until the company paying the pension folded? Or children who have no control over what circumstances they were born into. And the choice between accepting something that most recipients find humiliating and starving is not a choice. You obviously don't think people are good or trust them to make decisions if this is how you view the situation. But I guess the comfy life in San Diego allows you to wear those Limbaugh-colored glasses with ease.

Regardless of your circumstances you are still making a decision to accept assistance and as a result you accept it on the terms of the program, whatever they may be. Obviously, I'm for assistance for those who are physically unable to work. I'm glad you are a psychic and can tell me how I think. While I don't favor in abolishing the program, I think it does act to incentivize some bad decisions that people would otherwise learn from and improve their lives. I'm not sure what the San Diego comment is supposed to mean and as far as Limbaugh is concerned I can't stand him and don't listen to him.

Guedita, I'll be happy to, why don't I log the purchases for the first two weeks of December since I already have a lot of stuff for this month.

Re: The U.S. Cuts Food Stamps, Farm Subsidies

Originally Posted by bmack86

Yeah, fuck you dude. Just pull yourself up from your bootstraps, ignore your lungs and get a skill. Oh, and somehow pay for the schooling to do so. You know, because american ingenuity just works that way.

Somehow? Pretty sure there are plenty of ways to pay for schooling: grants, scholarships, student loans.

Re: The U.S. Cuts Food Stamps, Farm Subsidies

Originally Posted by summerkid

Guedita, I'll be happy to, why don't I log the purchases for the first two weeks of December since I already have a lot of stuff for this month.

Please also log the following: the amount of time you spend making lists, clipping coupons (if applicable), and shopping; the form and cost of transportation you use for shopping; the amount of time you spend preparing meals; the existing contents and volume of everything in your pantry or fridge that you regularly use in preparing meals, but that you may not regularly need to shop for/replace; the types and estimated value of any cooking equipment you may already own.

Re: The U.S. Cuts Food Stamps, Farm Subsidies

I mean, I feel like when I've lived alone I've easily subsisted on somewhere around $200 per month for food not including eating out, but when I've lived with a partner? God no. Voracious eaters, my boyfriends.

Re: The U.S. Cuts Food Stamps, Farm Subsidies

Originally Posted by summerkid

You CHOOSE to go onto government assistance and agree to their conditions, just like when you use Google you agree to their terms and conditions. If you don't like fish then maybe that helps motivate you to go get a skill and a good job.

While I know you are painting libertarians with a broad brush, at least get it right

A more accurate oversimplification of libertarians would be more like: People are good, but a paternalistic government corrupts them and I have a chest full of gold buried in the back yard and my garage is an armory.

Libertarians trust people to make decisions that are right for them, it's the progressives who believe that people are too stupid and that government must protect them from their own decision making.

Re: The U.S. Cuts Food Stamps, Farm Subsidies

No, liberals do not believe that. We believe that a basic structure of a decent society assures a common level of decent living for all citizens, and that certain social goods should not and cannot be distributed in the market on the basis of merit. We also believe that a good deal of misfortune cannot easily be reduced to bad decision making or lack of individual responsibility, but rather is a function of a social lottery that occurs outside of the individual's own control.

Re: The U.S. Cuts Food Stamps, Farm Subsidies

Originally Posted by summerkid

Somehow? Pretty sure there are plenty of ways to pay for schooling: grants, scholarships, student loans.

You realize that telling someone to just go to school ignores disabilities, ignores that if they have children, they are going to have to somehow supplement their meagre grant or loan money with employment while they attend school, which would also necessitate some sort of babysitting or child care, that loans and (sometimes) grants have to be paid back, usually with near-usurious interest rates, that education is not the guarantee of a well-paying job it used to be. I mean, we can go all day. It's ridiculous to assume that every single person can just "go get a skill and a good job" because it assumes so much, both in terms of the person and in terms of circumstances working in their favor.

Personally, I got a skill. I went to school for 21 years in order to finely cultivate this skill and make myself marketable. But guess what? A combination of family circumstances, economic recession and a change in how people in my field hire has led to me searching for employment for nearly a year in my field without success. If I didn't have family to support me, I'd need food stamps and government assistance to get by, even as I work out of my house and substitute teach to try and make ends meet. And yes, if I had food stamps, sometimes I would get something that wasn't what you would define as worthy. Because sometimes when life sucks you just want to eat a hamburger or some chips.

Re: The U.S. Cuts Food Stamps, Farm Subsidies

Debra: I was getting $203 dollars a month in food stamps. Now I’m down I think $60 or $70, to around $130. I’m not sure because they said they cut 30 percent, and I had $12 left in my account when I went to get food stamps. This month my account had $147.

Debra: Yes. She can’t apply for her own benefits until she’s 22. I’m still supporting her. I also have a neighbor I’ve known for 13 years, who’s critically ill, and I visit her a lot. I’m a veteran: I have a nursing background in the military. I try to help where I can. I also volunteer a lot for organizations that support mental health. We developed a peer program for schools, and a pamphlet that tells people where they can get help. We have a lot of meetings to figure out better intake processes for mentally ill youth. That’s a lot of how I spend my time. I’m also disabled, so I get a VA compensation check every month along with my social security. My daughter and I live on those two checks.

Debra: I used to do laundry twice a month. Now I can only afford once a month, $20 instead of $40. I also used to spend $40 per month on transportation. But I’m only putting half of that on my Smart Card [for D.C. bus rides] now. It’s a challenge if I don’t have enough money to go to the food bank. I forgot to tell you—I am a mental health patient and I have individual therapy twice a week. I need money to get to those appointments. If I can’t make it I have to text and let them know I can’t come, but it’s not good. I’m very fortunate because a lot of clients have it much harder than me. I get those two checks every month and they have even less money. I don’t know how they make it.

Re: The U.S. Cuts Food Stamps, Farm Subsidies

Libertarians trust people to make decisions that are right for them, it's the progressives who believe that people are too stupid and that government must protect them from their own decision making.

... WHAT IN YOUR FUCKING LIFE EXPERIENCE HAS EVER LED YOU TO BELIEVE THAT PEOPLE SHOULD BE TRUSTED TO MAKE DECISIONS FOR THEMSELVES, YOU DUMB SACK OF SHIT?

Do you know what would happen if people could make all the decisions for themselves? They would opt out of paying for all kinds of shit that is fucking crucial to society not crumbling into a hellhole. Everyone without kids would refuse to pay into the school system, people wouldn't pay into social security to get a little extra on their paychecks every week and then end up destitute in their old age. PEOPLE ARE SHORTSIGHTED FUCKING MORONS. LOOK AT YOU.

Re: The U.S. Cuts Food Stamps, Farm Subsidies

Originally Posted by thelastgreatman

... WHAT IN YOUR FUCKING LIFE EXPERIENCE HAS EVER LED YOU TO BELIEVE THAT PEOPLE SHOULD BE TRUSTED TO MAKE DECISIONS FOR THEMSELVES, YOU DUMB SACK OF SHIT?

Do you know what would happen if people could make all the decisions for themselves? They would opt out of paying for all kinds of shit that is fucking crucial to society not crumbling into a hellhole. Everyone without kids would refuse to pay into the school system, people wouldn't pay into social security to get a little extra on their paychecks every week and then end up destitute in their old age. PEOPLE ARE SHORTSIGHTED FUCKING MORONS. LOOK AT YOU.

So, what you're saying, in general, is that people are stoopid [sic] and can not make decisions for themselves. Is that the jist of it?

Re: The U.S. Cuts Food Stamps, Farm Subsidies

Originally Posted by bmack86

You realize that telling someone to just go to school ignores disabilities.....Nope, it does not ignore disabilities., ignores that if they have children, they are going to have to somehow supplement their meagre grant or loan money with employment while they attend school.......Here's a clue DON'T HAVE CHILDREN UNTIL YOU CAN AFFORD TO HAVE CHILDREN, GET AN EDUCATION FIRST BEFORE YOU START BEING A BABY-MACHINE.
which would also necessitate some sort of babysitting or child care...AND TAXPAYERS SHOULD HAVE TO SUBSIDIZE YOUR ERROR IN GETTING PREGNANT BEFORE YOU COULD SUPPORT THE ChILDREN? I can't agree with that.
.......that loans and (sometimes) grants have to be paid back......Oh, gee, you mean you actually might have to work and PAY for your college education?
.....usually with near-usurious interest ratesMy Guaranteed Student Loan was 3%, and I think one was 5%. What is the going federal rate now? I'll admit that I do not know, but I can not imagine it being something "near-usurious" (where's my theasarus) like, say 20%, right?
......that education is not the guarantee of a well-paying job it used to be.It never has been a guarantee of a well-paying job, ever. But a quality eduaction will increase your chances over others who are not as well qualified, all things being equal. Fact.
I mean, we can go all day. It's ridiculous to assume that every single person can just "go get a skill and a good job" because it assumes so much, both in terms of the person and in terms of circumstances working in their favor.Not rediculous at all. It's takes self-motivation, logic, reasoning, smart planning, short and long term goal setting, and not giving up when the going gets rough. You gotta want it.

Personally, I got a skill. I went to school for 21 years in order to finely cultivate this skill and make myself marketable. But guess what? A combination of family circumstances, economic recession and a change in how people in my field hire has led to me searching for employment for nearly a year in my field without success. I'm sorry. The economy does suck for recent grads. I'll agree with that. But this isn't going to last forever. Hang in there.
If I didn't have family to support me, I'd need food stamps and government assistance to get by...I'll assume you're doing the noble thing and thanking your family on a regular basis.
.....even as I work out of my house and substitute teach to try and make ends meet. Substitute teaching sucks. Been there, done that. But sometimes ya gotta do what ya gotta do to pay the bills and put food on the table.
And yes, if I had food stamps, sometimes I would get something that wasn't what you would define as worthy. Because sometimes when life sucks you just want to eat a hamburger or some chips.Well, what a person wants and what a person needs are two different things.

Re: The U.S. Cuts Food Stamps, Farm Subsidies

Man Rodg, you say I should go into debt to pay for my education, but here you say:

Originally Posted by RODGERRAMJET

Amen, brother, amen. ....and another post (above) said [paraphrasing]: "...The U.S. Government is borrowing well within its means." Isn't that the whole point? We should not be borrowing at all! The country needs to learn to live within its means. I liked Bill Clinton. We had a balanced budget under Clinton. Why is that so hard to do now?

I'm so confused. Think I'll just have a kid.

Last edited by iamthehorn; 11-14-2013 at 01:08 PM.
Reason: to use rodg's own words against him

Re: The U.S. Cuts Food Stamps, Farm Subsidies

Originally Posted by RODGERRAMJET

So, what you're saying, in general, is that people are stoopid [sic] and can not make decisions for themselves. Is that the jist of it?

Absolutely. Look at you--you're borderline retarded. You don't have the slightest clue what "sic" means or how it should be used, and you think society would be better off if we just let the poor starve to death.

Re: The U.S. Cuts Food Stamps, Farm Subsidies

Originally Posted by RotationSlimWang

Absolutely. Look at you--you're borderline retarded. You don't have the slightest clue what "sic" means or how it should be used, and you think society would be better off if we just let the poor starve to death.