- The firearms prohibition in NPs and NWRs was lifted on 2/22/10. See the "Important Notes" about HR 267 in the second post for more details.
- UOC of handguns is not legal in NPs effective 1/1/12 as a result of AB144 (PC 26350) and the NP's blanket "no shooting anywhere" policy
- LOC, UOC, UCC, and LCC are all legal in one's campsite. (PC 26055, 26383, & 25605)
- Since NPs can be near/within urban areas, school zones can be an issue. Unlocked/operable firearms are not allowed within 1000 feet of a K-12 school.
- CA CCW permit holders may LCC anywhere in NPs except in federal facilities (buildings with federal employees and no-firearms signs posted).

*2 - National Forest and BLM Details:

- LOC and UOC are legal everywhere except "prohibited areas" (areas where shooting is prohibited)
- LOC, UOC, UCC, and LCC are all legal in one's campsite. (PC 26055, 26383, & 25605)
- Shooting is prohibited within 150 yards of any residence, building, campsite, or developed site ("prohibited areas")
- Shooting is prohibited on or across roads or bodies of water ("prohibited areas")
- common opinion is that UOC of handguns is now illegal in "prohibited areas" of NF/BLM (AB144 / PC 26350) not all agree (PC 26388)
- Forest administrators have the authority to prohibit shooting in other areas of the NF but must clearly post this information ("prohibited areas")
- IMPORTANT NOTICE - some NFs are now banning shooting almost entirely - see this post - this makes the entire forest a "prohibited area"
- BLM administrators may post closures and restrictions regarding firearms use ("prohibited areas")

- LCC is legal for licensed hunters/fishermen, while hunting/fishing, but only where shooting is not prohibited (PC 25640)
- UCC is legal for licensed hunters/fishermen while hunting/fishing and while traveling to/from hunting/fishing expeditions (PC 25640)
- UOC is legal for licensed hunters while hunting and while traveling to/from hunting expeditions (PC 26366)
- CA CCW permit holders may disregard most of these restrictions and LCC in NF/BLM

*3 - State Parks Details:

- LUCC is the only legal way for non CCW permit holders to carry in CA State Parks
- firearms permitted in vehicles and temporary lodgings when unloaded and "packed, cased or stored in a manner that will prevent their ready use"
- CA CCW permit holders may apparently LCC firearms in California State Parks

25400. (a) A person is guilty of carrying a concealed firearm when the person does any of the following:

(1) Carries concealed within any vehicle that is under the person's control or direction any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.

(2) Carries concealed upon the person any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.

(b) A firearm carried openly in a belt holster is not concealed within the meaning of this section.

25605. (a) Section 25400 ... shall not apply to or affect any citizen of the United States or legal resident over the age of 18 years who resides or is temporarily within this state ... who carries, either openly or concealed, anywhere within the citizen's or legal resident's place of residence, place of business, or on private property owned or lawfully possessed by the citizen or legal resident...

25640. Section 25400 does not apply to, or affect, licensed hunters or fishermen carrying pistols, revolvers, or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person while engaged in hunting or fishing, or transporting those firearms unloaded when going to or returning from the hunting or fishing expedition.

25850. (a) A person is guilty of carrying a loaded firearm when the person carries a loaded firearm on the person or in a vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an incorporated city or in any public place or on any public street in a prohibited area of unincorporated territory.

26055. Nothing in Section 25850 shall prevent any person from having a loaded weapon, if it is otherwise lawful, at the person's place of residence, including any temporary residence or campsite.

17030. As used in this part, "prohibited area" means any place where it is unlawful to discharge a weapon.

16840. (b) (1) A firearm shall be deemed to be "loaded" when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell, consisting of a case that holds a charge of powder and a bullet or shot, in, or attached in any manner to, the firearm, including, but not limited to, in the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof attached to the firearm.

Note: In People v. Clark (1996), the California Court of Appeal clarified that in order to be "loaded" a firearm must have ammunition "placed into a position from which it can be fired". It even went so far as to point out as an example of what is not loaded to include shells attached to a shotgun inside a buttstock shell carrier. And loaded detachable magazines are not loaded firearms. For more details, see Defining loaded in California.

26350. (a) (1) A person is guilty of openly carrying an unloaded handgun when that person carries upon his or her person an exposed and unloaded handgun...

26366. Section 26350 does not apply to, or affect, the open carrying of an unloaded handgun by a licensed hunter while engaged in hunting or while transporting that handgun when going to or returning from that hunting expedition.

26383. Paragraph (1) of subdivision (a) of Section 26350 does not apply to, or affect, the open carrying of an unloaded handgun by a person when done within a place of business, a place of residence, or on private property...

26388. Section 26350 does not apply to, or affect, the open carrying of an unloaded handgun on publicly owned land, if the possession and use of a handgun is specifically permitted by the managing agency of the land and the person carrying that handgun is in lawful possession of that handgun.

26400. (a) A person is guilty of carrying an unloaded firearm that is not a handgun in an incorporated city or city and county when that person carries upon his or her person an unloaded firearm that is not a handgun outside a vehicle while in the incorporated city or city and county.

(a) No person shall carry, possess or discharge across, in or into any portion of any unit any weapon, firearm...

(c) Firearms not having a cartridge in any portion of the mechanism ... may be possessed within temporary lodging or mechanical mode of conveyance when such implements are rendered temporarily inoperable or are packed, cased, or stored in a manner that will prevent their ready use.

Hunting shall not be permitted in any unit now in the state park system ... Hunting may only be permitted in new recreational areas and state marine recreational management areas
that are developed for that use

(d) Discharging a firearm or any other implement capable of taking human life, causing injury, or damaging property as follows:

(1) In or within 150 yards of a residence, building, campsite, developed recreation site or occupied area, or
(2) Across or on a National Forest System road or a body of water adjacent thereto, or in any manner or place whereby any person or property is exposed to injury or damage as a result in such discharge.
(3) Into or within any cave.

(a)(1) Except as otherwise provided in this section and parts 7 (special regulations) and 13 (Alaska regulations), the following are prohibited:

(i) Possessing a weapon, trap or net
(ii) Carrying a weapon, trap or net
(iii) Using a weapon, trap or net

IMPORTANT NOTES: On May 22, 2009, President Obama signed HR 627 into law. This overrides 36 CFR 2.4 (a) and 50 CFR 27.42 effective February 22, 2010, and firearms are now permitted in NPs and NWRs subject to state laws. In California, the Park Service believes that 36 CFR 2.4 (a) (iii) (prohibits the use of firearms, i.e. shooting) still applies, and that this triggers the "prohibited area" language of 12031/25850 and therefore loading is not legal. In addition to this, the passage of AB144 has similarly banned UOC (of handguns) in the NPs effective Jan 1, 2012. UOC of long guns is legal everywhere except in federal facilities (18 USC 930, buildings with federal employees and no-firearms signs posted) (more details). LOC, UOC, UCC, and LCC (of handguns or long guns) is legal in one's campsite (PC 26055, 26383, & 25605). And LCC is legal everywhere except federal facilities with a CA CCW permit.

(b) Protecting the Right of Individuals To Bear arms in Units of the National Park System and the National Wildlife Refuge System- The Secretary of the Interior shall not promulgate or enforce any regulation that prohibits an individual from possessing a firearm including an assembled or functional firearm in any unit of the National Park System or the National Wildlife Refuge System if--

(1) the individual is not otherwise prohibited by law from possessing the firearm; and
(2) the possession of the firearm is in compliance with the law of the State in which the unit of the National Park System or the National Wildlife Refuge System is located.

It is unlawful to possess a loaded rifle or shotgun in any vehicle or conveyance or its attachments which is standing on or along or is being driven on or along any public highway or other way open to the public.

A rifle or shotgun shall be deemed to be loaded for the purposes of this section when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell in the firing chamber but not when the only cartridges or shells are in the magazine.

(a) It is unlawful for any person, other than the owner, person in possession of the premises, or a person having the express permission of the owner or person in possession of the premises, to hunt or to discharge while hunting, any firearm or other deadly weapon within 150 yards of any occupied dwelling house, residence, or other building or any barn or other outbuilding used in connection therewith. The 150-yard area is a "safety zone."

(b) It is unlawful for any person to intentionally discharge any firearm or release any arrow or crossbow bolt over or across any public road or way open to the public, in an unsafe manner.

A common source of confusion is assuming that one code exemption applies to all codes. Be careful not to fall into this trap.

For example, it is a common misbelief that it is always legal to possess a loaded firearm in one's campsite. While it is true that 26055 exempts you from 25850 (loaded), and 25605(a) exempts you from 25400 (concealed), it does not prevent your violation and conviction of some other local, state, or federal code.

Another common mistake is confusing concealing with loading. These are addressed by two separate laws with two separate penal code sections.

Scenario 1: You are in a California State Park, in your campsite, carrying an unloaded handgun.
Status: illegal - violation of CCR Title 14, Div 3, Chap 1, s 4313, possessing a firearm in a State Park

Scenario 2: You are in a National Forest, or a National Park, or on BLM land, in your campsite, carrying a loaded handgun openly or concealed.
Status: legal - 26055 exempts you from 25850 (loaded) and 25605(a) exempts you from 25400 (concealed)

Scenario 3: You are in a National Forest, walking from your campsite to a public pit toilet, carrying a loaded handgun openly in a belt holster.
Status: illegal - 25850 violation - you are not in your own campsite, and are in an area where shooting is prohibited, so 25850 applies **

Scenario 5: A licensed fisherman is fishing a stream in the National Forest, within 150 yards of a developed campsite. He is carrying a loaded concealed handgun.
Status: illegal - while not violating 25400 (concealed) because of 25640, he is violating 25850 (loaded) because the nearby campsite triggers the "prohibited area" language **

Scenario 6: A licensed hunter or fisherman is traveling to his hunting or fishing expedition, carrying an unloaded concealed firearm. He passes a K-12 school during his trip.
Status: illegal - while not violating 25400 (concealed) because of 25640, he is violating 626.9 by passing within 1000 feet of a school without locking up his handgun

** - This entire thread presumes that the "prohibited area" language in 25850 is triggered by the various federal shooting restrictions. This is the more cautious interpretation, however, there are other interpretations.

[QUOTE=MudCamper;2514223]
Scenario 2: You are in a National Forest, or a National Park, or on BLM land, in your campsite, carrying a loaded handgun openly or concealed.
Status: legal - 12031(l) exempts you from 12031 and 12026(a) exempts you from 12025

Can anyone go into further detail on this scenario? Is it legal because your campsite is private property possessed by you?

__________________ "One does not have to be in favor of death camps or wars of conquest to be a tyrant. The only requirement is that one has to believe in the primacy of the state over individual rights."

Scenario 2: You are in a National Forest, or a National Park, or on BLM land, in your campsite, carrying a loaded handgun openly or concealed.
Status: legal - 12031(l) exempts you from 12031 and 12026(a) exempts you from 12025

Can anyone go into further detail on this scenario? Is it legal because your campsite is private property possessed by you?

No. If you are in NF or BLM how is it private property? It's not. The details you seek are in the second post of this thread, but I will restate them here:

PC 25850 prohibits loading, but includes this exception:

26055. Nothing in Section 25850 shall prevent any person from having a loaded weapon, if it is otherwise lawful, at the person's place of residence, including any temporary residence or campsite.

PC 25400 prohibits concealing, but includes the following exception (abridged):

25605. (a) Section 25400 ... shall not apply to or affect any citizen of the United States or legal resident over the age of 18 years who resides or is temporarily within this state ... who carries, either openly or concealed, anywhere within the citizen's or legal resident's place of residence, place of business, or on private property owned or lawfully possessed by the citizen or legal resident...

It's all about your "residence" which basically is where you lay your head at night.

"
*2 - Loaded Open Carry is legal in areas where shooting is not prohibited

I'd like a little more clarification on this. Am I allowed to walk along an unpaved fire road in a NF while I LOC? I thought there was a 1/4 mile minimum distance rule for shooting by access roads. Does this include fire roads, jeep trails and such?

I'd like a little more clarification on this. Am I allowed to walk along an unpaved fire road in a NF while I LOC? I thought there was a 1/4 mile minimum distance rule for shooting by access roads. Does this include fire roads, jeep trails and such?

(d) Discharging a firearm or any other implement capable of taking human life, causing injury, or damaging property as follows:

(1) In or within 150 yards of a residence, building, campsite, developed recreation site or occupied area, or
(2) Across or on a National Forest System road or a body of water adjacent thereto, or in any manner or place whereby any person or property is exposed to injury or damage as a result in such discharge.
(3) Into or within any cave.

And 12031 states:

Quote:

(f) As used in this section, "prohibited area" means any place where it is unlawful to discharge a weapon.

So no LOC on roads. UOC on roads. Does a dirt "fire road" qualify as a road? Do what you feel comfortable with, but I'd advise caution. I frequent the Mendocino national forest, and some of the "fire roads" (crappy 4WD roads) are actually county roads and the prohibition definitely applies there.

So no LOC on roads. UOC on roads. Does a dirt "fire road" qualify as a road? Do what you feel comfortable with, but I'd advise caution. I frequent the Mendocino national forest, and some of the "fire roads" (crappy 4WD roads) are actually county roads and the prohibition definitely applies there.

For the most part, all "official" roads, dirt or otherwise in the Nat'l Forrest system have a road number, so any road that has been assigned a road number is offically a road. There are, however, a lot of "un-official" roads in the Nat'l Forrest that have been created over the years by forrest users. Those roads have been the subject of a suit against the National Forrest, and all of the roads in their lands have been inventoried and mapped. At the present time, all of these created non-Forest Service roads are offically closed to motor vehicle traffic. Since these roads are in actuality not roads, I would assume that you can loaded open carry on them. If anyone has reason to talk to a Nat'l Forrest ranger about firearms, it would be interesting to hear their take on it.

If you plan to drive in the Nat'l Forrest, it would be wise to get a current map that shows the legal roads for vehicle travel (and illegal for LOC), as the closed roads are all still there, but are not for motor vehicle use any longer. I do not know the status of the suit, and whether or not any of these roads are ever going to be opened again or not.

For the most part, all "official" roads, dirt or otherwise in the Nat'l Forrest system have a road number, so any road that has been assigned a road number is offically a road. There are, however, a lot of "un-official" roads in the Nat'l Forrest that have been created over the years by forrest users. Those roads have been the subject of a suit against the National Forrest, and all of the roads in their lands have been inventoried and mapped. At the present time, all of these created non-Forest Service roads are offically closed to motor vehicle traffic. Since these roads are in actuality not roads, I would assume that you can loaded open carry on them. If anyone has reason to talk to a Nat'l Forrest ranger about firearms, it would be interesting to hear their take on it.

If you plan to drive in the Nat'l Forrest, it would be wise to get a current map that shows the legal roads for vehicle travel (and illegal for LOC), as the closed roads are all still there, but are not for motor vehicle use any longer. I do not know the status of the suit, and whether or not any of these roads are ever going to be opened again or not.

Roads are roads only when they aren't roads as indicated by the secret handshake. When they aren't roads, don't LOC if the non-roads can be identified as roads by the USFS, as indicated by pencil lines drawn on homemade maps carried by USFS personnel. Now that the gub'ment has clarified their "rules" for you, feel free to LOC at your own risk!

Gawd, how I hope for the day when my right to keep and bear arms actually means keep and bear arms.

Originally Posted by http://www.parks.ca.gov/default.asp?page_id=21301

4313. Weapons and Traps

...

Firearms not having a cartridge in any portion of the mechanism, traps, nets, bows and arrows, other unloaded weapons or devices may be possessed within temporary lodging or mechanical mode of conveyance when such implements are rendered temporarily inoperable or are packed, cased, or stored in a manner that will prevent their ready use.

I have shot in both the lowest and highest parts of Stanislaus Forest, there's never a problem, so long as you aren't being stupid (rapid fire, shooting over roads, water or near buildings, etc)...
In the Emigrant I carry a G27 in a drop with a mag on it & another in it, and I have never had problems. The last trip we had (2 weeks ago to Lane lake from Leavitt TH) we conversed with the ranger for about an hour and nothing came up about it.
I usually just quote that bad people can be much more dangerous when law is miles away, and that there's always animals as well.. but that question has only come up from friends, not authorities.

Though if you're marching along with your mossberg or scoped rifle, they'd probably question you.

Ok some good info. So If I'm on a trail that crosses a NFS numbered road I have to unload once I get 150yds away, walk across the road, and then reload once I'm across and 150yds into the trees, Lame. With my luck these days I'm going to encounter an axe wielding tweeker guarding his lab with a pair of attack bears at 145yds!

Ok some good info. So If I'm on a trail that crosses a NFS numbered road I have to unload once I get 150yds away, walk across the road, and then reload once I'm across and 150yds into the trees, Lame. With my luck these days I'm going to encounter an axe wielding tweeker guarding his lab with a pair of attack bears at 145yds!

No. "within 150 yards of any structure/development or occupied area" and "within or into a cave, across or on a road or body of water" Not within 150 yards of a road.

I am going to take the family to the Western Sierras this summer for camping, in the Sierra National Forest, in the old days I took a 12 ga with slugs camping out of the car. Looks like it's a Condor Zone now. Do I have to have lead free slugs for purely a defensive use, bears?

__________________
"I said I never had much use for one. Never said I didn't know how to use it." Matthew Quigley

I am going to take the family to the Western Sierras this summer for camping, in the Sierra National Forest, in the old days I took a 12 ga with slugs camping out of the car. Looks like it's a Condor Zone now. Do I have to have lead free slugs for purely a defensive use, bears?

You are going to have a hell of a time hitting those birds with the slugs.

I need some clarification. Am I able to open carry(pistol) with full clip in same holster(gun is unloaded obviously) while backpacking or camping in state or fed. park? Or am I able to carry open or concealed while loaded??

I am going to take the family to the Western Sierras this summer for camping, in the Sierra National Forest, in the old days I took a 12 ga with slugs camping out of the car. Looks like it's a Condor Zone now. Do I have to have lead free slugs for purely a defensive use, bears?

Right now we are being told the non lead requirement is for hunting. You can posses lead in the condor zone, just not hunt certain game with it or possess it "while" hunting. You can have it in your vehicle.

There are certain areas that restrict "any" lead in possession. Tejon Ranch is one, on our recent pig hunt there I was just filming but I had to clear my truck of all lead to enter the ranch. That was Tejon's policy in their TOU.

I am going to take the family to the Western Sierras this summer for camping, in the Sierra National Forest, in the old days I took a 12 ga with slugs camping out of the car. Looks like it's a Condor Zone now. Do I have to have lead free slugs for purely a defensive use, bears?

Quote:

Originally Posted by spectr17

Right now we are being told the non lead requirement is for hunting. You can posses lead in the condor zone, just not hunt certain game with it or possess it "while" hunting. You can have it in your vehicle.

Correct. The lead ammo ban is only for hunting. But you can have your ammo anywhere, not just in your vehicle, including in the firearm if not in an area where shooting is prohibited.

I need some clarification. Am I able to open carry(pistol) with full clip in same holster(gun is unloaded obviously) while backpacking or camping in state or fed. park? Or am I able to carry open or concealed while loaded??

Thanks Matt

State Parks and National Parks are not the same thing. One is run by the State of California. The other is run by the federal government. See the first post for clarification.

Firearms are not allowed in State Parks, except locked up in vehicles.

Firearms will be allowed in National Parks after the new law goes into effect next year, but are not allowed now, unless locked up in vehicles.

This thread, which is about restrictions in wilderness areas in the Stanislaus NF, is interesting reading for those interested in this topic.

In summation, the SNF website states that firearms are not allowed in the wilderness areas, but in fact that is beyond their authority. They can only ban shooting, not possession or carry. This thread has been updated where necessary.

UPDATE 11/9/10 I was mistaken. Per 36 CFR 261.57 the FS can ban possession in a wilderness area. However it is still not clear weather SNF bans possession or just shooting in the wilderness areas.

Just forwarded someone to this thread, it's an excellent summation and starting point for answering, "Can I legally carry in..."

A staff member should sticky this thread. It gets asked a LOT.

__________________

Disclaimer: The poster is not responsible for any damage to the reader's keyboard, monitor, or dignity as a result of this post's comments.
"I am a sinner that does not expect forgiveness. But I am not a government official." Francis Wolcott (Deadwood)

State Parks and National Parks are not the same thing. One is run by the State of California. The other is run by the federal government. See the first post for clarification.

Firearms are not allowed in State Parks, except locked up in vehicles.

Firearms will be allowed in National Parks after the new law goes into effect next year, but are not allowed now, unless locked up in vehicles.

Some state parks you CAN in fact open carry with a loaded magazine in the gun but not a round in the chamber (same as federal state parks) however EACH state park has it's own guns laws. MOST do not allow ANY guns except locked in your vehicle. (Check each location specifically to ensure your safe)

But Federal (National) forrestry you can carry LOC legally as long as your NOT in a vehicle and if your in a vehicle you can NOT have a round in the chamber. But a loaded magazine is ok. This is on any marked or designated roads or trails.

Some state parks you CAN in fact open carry with a loaded magazine in the gun but not a round in the chamber (same as federal state parks) however EACH state park has it's own guns laws. MOST do not allow ANY guns except locked in your vehicle. (Check each location specifically to ensure your safe)

According to State CCR Title 14, Div 3, Chap 1, s 4313 (a) no firearms are allowed in State Parks. I'd love to be proven wrong, so please offer a code citation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seesm

But Federal (National) forrestry you can carry LOC legally as long as your NOT in a vehicle and if your in a vehicle you can NOT have a round in the chamber. But a loaded magazine is ok. This is on any marked or designated roads or trails.

While basically correct, this statement appears to be a mixed confusion of F&G and PC. Please read the first 2 posts of the thread.