Exposing the underbelly of Armstrongism in all of its wacky glory! Nothing you read here is made up. Every crazy, weird and wacky quote is straight from the pens of Armstrongite leaders or members who think they possess some insight into God and the Bible. What you read here is the up to date face of Herbert W Armstrong's legacy. It's the gritty and dirty behind the scenes look at Armstrongism as you have never seen it before!

Thursday, May 15, 2014

Bitter Bob Thiel Lashes Out At Rod Meredith AGAIN Saying He Is In Error And That His Church Is An "Improperly Named" Church of God

Bob Thiel just cannot get over the fact that Rod Meredith has IGNORED his messages and words of "wisdom" over the last decade or so. For many years Thiel thought he was in the god graces of Meredith and crew. He met with Meredith and others many times in formal meetings and in private dinners. Theil claims that Meredith was always in agreement with the things he had to tell him.

That swiftly came to an end a year or so ago when Thiel appointed himself as a leader of a new splinter personality cult. He was not ordained into the COG nor was any "mantle" passed on to him. Thiel misinterpreted a prayer by Gaylyn Bonjour and then set himself up as the self appointed prophet of the Church of God. When Thiel did this Rod Meredith quickly swung into action and wrote a letter to the LCG members ship about Thiel telling them to ignore the man. Ever since then Thiel has been filed with bitterness towards Meredith.

Yet, the reality is that on many prophetic points the teachings of
those groups are in error. Some of their errors have to do with Daniel
11.

So Flurry and Meredith are wrong but guess who is right.......Thiel himself. As the greatest living COG prophet to ever live he is the end all authority on all things Mayan, Catholic and prophetic. Truth be told, he is just another blithering idiot in the history of the COG. Thousands have come and gone over the decades. Bob Thiel is just one more of that long line of liars and frauds. He is in good company though, Pack, Weinland and Flurry are right beside him. Idiots all!

Notice that LCG teaches that after Daniel 11:40-43 is
fulfilled, that Daniel 11:31 will be fulfilled. This is a major problem
because Daniel 11:31 is the sign that Jesus pointed to to warn that it
would be time to flee and that the Great Tribulation was about to begin:

15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of
desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy
place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are
in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not
go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the
field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are
pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray
that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then
there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the
beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. (Matthew
24:15-21)

For years I tried to work with LCG on this point as they had a
publication written by John Ogwyn that agreed with the sequence that I
have taught–that the King of the North invades the USA and Anglo-Saxon
nations prior to the invasion of the King of the South.
LCG also has the Great Tribulation beginning when the King of the North invades the King of the South. Here is what its Official Statement of Fundamental Beliefs teachings:

The Bible speaks of a time of great catastrophe, called
the “Great Tribulation” (Matthew 24:21-22; Daniel 11:40-45; 12:1; Luke
21:19-36) (viewed 05/14/14)

LCG is teaching that Daniel 11:40 is the first item in the sequence
in Daniel 11 to start the Great Tribulation. And this is a FUNDAMENTAL
BELIEF, which is in error.

Poor guy, he just cannot get Meridith to listen to him! Later in his latest screed he lashes out again at Meredith:

Even though LCG has ignored Thiel he is hoping they will fall in line and listen to him this time.

Since I was unable to get LCG to change while I was with it, despite
agreements by its leaders to fix LCG’s errors on this point, hopefully
pointed this error out again will assist them to correct it. Otherwise,
this will be another area where those in LCG will misunderstand
prophecy.

Thiel is also wanting Gerald Flurry to listen to him and change their teachings. They too have a history of ignoring Thiel. Theil says that the ignoring of his message is "...to their peril." As if PCG gives a rats ass about Thiel. They probably line the bird cages of PCG members in the PCG compound.

I would make a similar appeal to PCG, but as they improperly believe
that Gerald Flurry is a prophet, nor have they ever agreed that I was
correct on this, they seem less likely than LCG to consider this–but
they ignore what the Bible teaches to their peril. Sadly this likely
means, then, that they will not know when the Great Tribulation will
begin, and that would then indicated they will not be protected from it.

Everyone is doomed to be put in a German, Chinese, Muslim, German concentration camp because of their rebellion while Bobby and family jet off to Jordan where he becomes one of the two witless witnesses. What is Thiel going to do when he shows up in Petra and finds Flurry, Pack, and Weinland are already there and have all the caves reserved? It is not going to be a pretty scene!

Especially when he says this:

Unless they change their positions, NEITHER PCG NOR LCG WILL REALIZE
WHEN THE GREAT TRIBULATION WILL BEGIN AND THEIR SUPPORTERS WILL NOT FLEE
TO BE PROTECTED IN A PLACE OF SAFETY IN THE WILDERNESS (Revelation
12:14-16).

I can hear it now: "Don't you know WHO I am??????????????????" " I had a double blessing of the Holy Spirit and you did not!" "I am a prophet who knows everything about the Mayans, Catholics and prophecy, YOU do not!" "Get out of that cave and give it to ME, Its MINE, I deserve it! Its all about ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

14 comments:

Bob Thiel is one of the most talented accidental comedians of all time. BTW, I love the word "blithering." It's so apropos of Bob. It captures the whole limb flailing thing in my mind as well.

"...to their peril." Sadly, but of course, Bob takes himself far too seriously. Peril. Oh my. We won't be able to tell when the "tribulation" comes. Oh dear. In Ron Weinland's group, the tribulation has already started several times without anyone being able to tell. As hilarious as this is, it's also sad to realize it's only a matter of time before the same thing happens in other groups.

The COGs are prime material for someone to write a comic opera about. One number this opera would certainly not be complete without is "It's All About Me."

Everything about Thiel is calculated, including his appearance of spirituality and humility.

That was clear while he built the ridiculous storehouse of information on his cogwriter site. Clearly, he didn't view himself as just another member, nor would he accept such a meager status. By writing profically, he believed he was positioning himself as a scholar and an authority.

It is not easy to write as voluminously as he did. His weren't just 500 word articles. They were long tomes, mini-dissertations on topics familiar to the COG community, and produced daily for years. The sheer amount of time it had to take to come up with such documents made it clear the man was somewhat fanatical about creating, collecting and storing volumes of information. Did he ever do anything else? What was his source of income? How did he earn it, considering he was spending so much time writing, philosophizing and pontificating? Meanwhile, his unwillingness to be forthcoming about his degrees, training and profession were, and are, warning signs that he longed to be something more than he was.

Further, Thiel's penchant for offering commentary (often in the form of biting critiques) of various COG groups was further indication of his desire to be viewed not only as authoritative, but, oddly enough, objective -- which he apparently believed would suggest that he was somehow different from all the other COG personalities. In fact, the similarities are more identifiable and significant.

It was inevitable that his loyalty to LCG had its limitations, based on his own arbitrary standards. Essentially, that's how every splinter group, including HWA's in the first place, get started. When LCG opened the door to thinking outside of his box on certain doctrines, Thiel pounced, and the game was on.

His is nothing but the same old shtick, with different packaging and a different name slapped on the label. The barbs he hurls at Meredith and the other COGs amount to sticks and stones, and little else.

Bob Thiel is a classic example of being piously convicted yet marginally informed. That combo will make a fool out of a pseudo theologian or even layperson in a heartbeat. It has done so to Bob.

If he were informed in the modern age of theological and historical understanding instead of just mining history to agree with his already believed story of himself and how all things shall "Soon" come to pass, he'd know better. But he does not.

Daniel was not written by any Daniel in the 500's BCE. It was written to encourge the Jews of the 160's BCE to stay the course and route Rome under the Maccabeans. Danile 11 is so very specific because it was written AFTER all the facts projected into the fake future had already happened. All the great empires had come and gone and were not prophetically predicted when the book was actually written. The Book of Revelation is a offshoot of both that approach and the Book of Daniel itself. Daniel was written to encourage Jews to resist Rome and Revelation was updated using Daniel to encourage the Jewish Christians to continue to resist Rome to the end. Why change a winning book.

Bob is stuck in the fatal combo of Biblical literalism and historical ignorance of the origins and intent of the texts.

As long as I am at it...I can quarantee RCM tolerated Bob in the day, placating him and at least giving him a say, because he was a higher class of member and one which the church would not want to lose for any number of reasons. Fearing him as a theological threat would not be high on that list and rightly so. As a pastor, I had to listen to lots of theories and ideas of members who were more god haunted with the Bible than most while knowing I was only going to tolerate it so much and only if it stayed harmless to most. But Bob lost his mind and continues to the day he heard the words "double portion" spoken to his imaginary God about him. It was all downhill from there and I'd have had to do the same thing RCM did just to keep peace with those asking me to put some balance on someone upsetting the folks. It's just how life works in a church with Bible literalists works.

RCM said the truth when he wrote he was being kind and just tolerating Bob. That was something Bob never has been able to swallow but I assure you it is true and accurate way to describe what one feels as push goes to shove.

Bob was a push and shove and when shoved back, had to recover his self image by anointing himself yet another fool with a title.

PS Daniel is very specific in the already happened details because they were history made prophecy. Daniel 12 is "yet to happen" material which is why it is so much more generic and slippery in tone.

Daniel 12 is your basic.."and then a bunch of other stuff happens over months and a few years and then it all works out but let's put the book away and worry about that later..." chapter because at that point they actually did NOT KNOW what the unknowable future would bring.

And like it or not in the world of prophecy , it's still not actually knowable nor would it be desirable to know and leads to all sorts of free will issues and "are we just actors in some ridiculous passion play" with no other choices?

I don't believe anymore for one second in the reality of prophecy. It is a human construct and a great organizational motivator to "send it in", be in "final gun laps," stay stuck in the unknowable future while sacrificing the only real thing one actually has, NOW, and postponing actual living.

I had to be "there" so I could be here I suppose and out of what I now see as a ridiculous choice I made when young and naive, good things have come. The rest I put to rest as part of what I have come to call "Earth School" lessons.

It is a relief to be able to stand back and watch the antics of the Thiels, Packs, Flurries and Koreshes of this world and not be emotionally invested in any of it.

These men are so wrong in their views and will die just like the rest of us in time "not having received the promises" which are long past after 2000 YEARs, enough ignorance is enough...

If anyone has the guts to let someone help you in getting unstuck from things you probably have wondered about concerning all things God, Jesus and Bible, I'd suggest THE END OF CHRISTIANITY , by my friend John Loftus as a start.

You'd have to have a lot of courage to read the rest of his books and the conclusions this once pastor and psychologist has come to with hard work and admitting the obvious when once you know how to think it through.

Most religious leaders I know, and I know a few, dare not think past the Sunday school level at least publically. Privately they tell me amazing things about what they actually feel they know but can never say.

That's part of the dark underbelly of an educated clergy. That is also the part of the uneducated COG Bible reader ministers and members that would rarely come to the surface which is why they get defensive and loud when you bring these things to their attention.

Facts eventually trump faith and faith is what fails when the facts appear and finally are accepted as true after one throws away all the filters meant to keep them out.

Most don't get this of course and revert to "God's way s are not your ways," and "There is a way that SEEEEEEMMMMS right to a man but " it just gets him thrown in the lake of fire for bringing it up.

Real truth never seems right. It is right and undoes the silly and sometimes dangerous life wasting ideas of religionists poorly trained in critical thinking or even basic human curiosity over the concept of "well if that's true then how can this be..."?

I can hear it now: "Don't you know WHO I am??????????????????" " I had a double blessing of the Holy Spirit and you did not!" "I am a prophet who knows everything about the Mayans, Catholics and prophecy, YOU do not!" "Get out of that cave and give it to ME, Its MINE, I deserve it! Its all about ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

An important question about trying to understand the minute points of prophecy is ..."Does it matter?"

I have learned that you can't worry too much about things you do not have control over. It is fine to be aware of world events and the like, but in the end, you have no real control over the politics of the world, the economy, the weather , "the church" or most other things.

All you have is control over yourself. It is also humbling to realize just how small that world really is! It is a world of daily small decisions to maintain good disciplines , and make wise , judicious and righteous decisions that are not "Earth Shaking" in the least. However, they are important to your collective character over time, but again, only aware to you in your small individual life.

What will be , will be. Knowing every prophetic detail about something you have no control over does not make you more "special" to God, or more righteous, more forgiven or more perfected. In fact, it has very little value at all.

As long as you make correct and righteous decisions in the PRESENT , over things that you indeed do have dominion over, you will find the way.

This is a full time job and what a better world it would be if everyone did that. Observing megatrends or speculating about prophecy may be interesting, but in the end, it accomplishes nothing. Knowledge about things beyond your empirical self does not save.

It appears that Thiel believes that if you enter every keyhole perfectly of esoteric knowledge that this is the pathway to approval from God. He is incorrect about that.

These fools don't even consider the fact that the USA is not even mentioned in the Bible, unless, that is, you assume British Israelism. They will never get prophecy right. They are arguing over grievous error as if it were even partially true. Piously and proudly, I might add.

This place of safety "carrot" supposedly with ACOG leaders being the gatekeepers, is a total farce. First, who would want to live for 3-1/2 years in a community dominated by people who are preoccupied with Moses and the Old Covenant? There is a lot of rock in Petra, and I dare say that stonings for failure to abide by the authority of self-ordained apostles will probably be one of the first things reinstituted once people do not have the protections of the Constitution and Bill of Rights. Jim Jones' Flavor Aid will seem much more humane and merciful by comparison! If an all powerful God willed to protect certain individuals, he wouldn't need a geographically defined area in which to do it. That is a man-made construct.

Secondly, how many more years are these people going to wait and to fan the flames, trying to make it appear as if the HWA prophecy mode were actually valid? We're coming up on the forty year anniversary of the failure of 1972-75. Not even William Miller's uneducated followers were that clueless! They eventually gave up and said that something spiritual and imperceivable had happened rather than the return of Jesus.

These self-appointed superstars of the Armstrong gospel are simply repackaging and redistributing a package that was totally false and wrong in the first place, and attempting to do it without the skill set of an HWA or GTA, the only factor that made it aopear as credible in the first place. It is terminally ridiculous!

"Has Bob ever explained how a church with so much error can pass on a double portion of God's Spirit?"

I don't know about Bob, he may, in fact, be above board, clueless, and sincere, despite the fact he's also a narcissist, like those he imitates. But he also needs to explain how it's possible for insincere men like Pervert Armstrong and Rod Meredith to ever acquire or pass on to anyone else spirit in any amount from any god worthy of worship?

I know where the validity of baptisms, annointings, and ordinations was supposed to have come from. But I also know why that can't possibly be true. What I don't understand is why any grown-up adult could still think any of that ritual could possibly mean anything at all.

Pervert claims he got his bona fides from COG7, and that he could trace the provenance of his own church through COG7 all the way back to the first century church. COG7 denies this of course. They say they've never claimed to be able to trace their roots back the apostles. I'm not sure upon what basis they claim to be a valid church capable of leading people to god. They probably just believe in trying to be good people and hope one of the gods has noticed, respected it, and has decided to sponsor them. 2,000 years later, it's a theory that's at least as good or as secure as any. The critical thing here though, is that that was NOT Pervert Armstrong's theory! He wanted to claim something much grander, and much more secure, all of which was a joke.

I'm left with the conclusion that persons, such as Bob, who think baptisms, annointings, and ordinations have ever had any significance whatsoever, on earth, or anywhere else, have never been grown-up adults, even if enough time has passed since their birth to make them physically look the part. Sincerity doesn't make you a grown-up adult either. Nor does it make you a good person.

What does make someone a grown-up adult is the ability to recognize and deal with reality and not be hoodwinked by propaganda. What makes that someone a good person is then having enough backbone to stand for something worthy. In theory, Armstrongism tried to preach this, here a little, there a little, in the cracks between the nonsense about gods, devils, and holy books. Unfortunately, a religious milieu presents an opposing force to such objectives. The ministers had no clue how to become grown-up adults, though they were bidden to masquerade as though they did, so they had no help to give to members. It took me some time to discover this fundamental conflict between the juvenile nature of "believing" unconfirmable things and the grown-up adult desire to grapple with confirmable veridical realities. It's not societally efficient to force everyone to have to figure these things out on their own if they are to figure them out at all. Somewhere, someone in an organization that claims to have so much "authority" and "truth" has the responsibility to do the due diligence to think their religion through before passing it off to others, especially children, as though it's something it isn't. If nowhere else, that buck certainly stops at Pervert Armstrong himself.

The ultimate problem is that gods and holy books stand squarely in the way of decent people becoming grown-up adults, contrary to popular opinion.