I don't know anything about the author of the Meaningness blog and I don't think that it's his original thought either: he merely compiled some references from books recently published on this subject, in particular "Buddhist Modernism" which has been dealt with extensively by other scholars as well. Whatever conclusions he personally draws from it (the need for more tantric Buddhism in the West) is his business, not something I would endorse.

Just noticed this and thought it worth going off topic to point out that the key words here are " used to be". The Aro were declared a cult by a group within the old E Sangha site.Their authenticity is now accepted pretty much universally, including by Malcolm ( formerly Namdrol ).I apologise for the detour.

Just noticed this and thought it worth going off topic to point out that the key words here are " used to be". The Aro were declared a cult by a group within the old E Sangha site.Their authenticity is now accepted pretty much universally, including by Malcolm ( formerly Namdrol ).I apologise for the detour.

And the evidence for your claim on this is? Perhaps you would like to expand on this at the sister site as this site is dedicated to Theravada based teaching and issues.

Last edited by plwk on Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

Bhikkhus, if you develop and make much this one thing, it invariably leads to weariness, cessation, appeasement, realization and extinction. What is it? It is recollecting the Enlightened One. If this single thing is recollected and made much, it invariably leads to weariness, cessation, appeasement, realization and extinction.Anguttara-Nikaya: Ekanipata: Ekadhammapali: PañhamavaggaVSMVMMWBBTBHTWTBTMy Page

Just noticed this and thought it worth going off topic to point out that the key words here are " used to be". The Aro were declared a cult by a group within the old E Sangha site.Their authenticity is now accepted pretty much universally, including by Malcolm ( formerly Namdrol ).I apologise for the detour.

I saw Aro Ter listed as a cult group somewhere other than E-sangha.

I wasn't very familiar with E-sangha when it was on the internet....nor with "Malcolm/Namdrol" who appears to be regarded as the supreme expert on all things Buddhist.

Due to the nature of the internet once a person or group has been blacklisted that list tends to get picked up and repeated widely as "received knowledge".In the case of the Aro a number of senior Tibetan teachers ( this is easily verified ) came forward to endorse the validity of the Aro..whereupon a number of previous opponents ( including " Namdrol " ) made public apologies.

Vajracakra was set up by Malcolm and a group of students of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu including Dechen Norbu who broke away from Dharma Wheel over the issue of whether it was neccessary to be a Buddhist in order to practice Dzogchen. Malcolm and others thought not, and so Vajracakra.com was born. However they opened it to Tibetan Buddhists too, in that they are not excluded.

My apologies to the forum mods. I was unsure whether to respond or not as this is all off topic.

gendun wrote:Vajracakra was set up by Malcolm and a group of students of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu including Dechen Norbu who broke away from Dharma Wheel over the issue of whether it was neccessary to be a Buddhist in order to practice Dzogchen. Malcolm and others thought not, and so Vajracakra.com was born. However they opened it to Tibetan Buddhists too, in that they are not excluded.

My apologies to the forum mods. I was unsure whether to respond or not as this is all off topic.

Thanks Gendun and no worries.But if others wish to discuss this particular issue further, please feel free to start a new topic.kind regards,

Ben

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.” - Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:in mountain clefts and chasms,loud gush the streamlets,but great rivers flow silently.- Sutta Nipata 3.725

gendun wrote:Vajracakra was set up by Malcolm and a group of students of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu including Dechen Norbu who broke away from Dharma Wheel over the issue of whether it was neccessary to be a Buddhist in order to practice Dzogchen. Malcolm and others thought not, and so Vajracakra.com was born.

No, Vajracakra was etablished in order to provide a forum for the exclusive discussion of Vajrayāna Dharma. Why? Because just as conversations about Theravada and Zen have proven to flourish more abundantly in dedicated forums, it is our feeling that the same would occur with Vajrayāna, given the chance.

We can see already on Dharmawheel that the conversation is naturally settling into a more Pan-mahāyāna tone since the establishment of Vajracakra.

The issue of whether or not one needs to be a "Buddhist" in order to practice Buddhadharma is completely separate and does not apply only to Dzogchen.

So malcolm, as gendun suggested earlier: that you accepted the authenticity of Aro and apologised?

Bhikkhus, if you develop and make much this one thing, it invariably leads to weariness, cessation, appeasement, realization and extinction. What is it? It is recollecting the Enlightened One. If this single thing is recollected and made much, it invariably leads to weariness, cessation, appeasement, realization and extinction.Anguttara-Nikaya: Ekanipata: Ekadhammapali: PañhamavaggaVSMVMMWBBTBHTWTBTMy Page

gendun wrote:Vajracakra was set up by Malcolm and a group of students of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu including Dechen Norbu who broke away from Dharma Wheel over the issue of whether it was neccessary to be a Buddhist in order to practice Dzogchen. Malcolm and others thought not, and so Vajracakra.com was born.

No, Vajracakra was etablished in order to provide a forum for the exclusive discussion of Vajrayāna Dharma. Why? Because just as conversations about Theravada and Zen have proven to flourish more abundantly in dedicated forums, it is our feeling that the same would occur with Vajrayāna, given the chance.

We can see already on Dharmawheel that the conversation is naturally settling into a more Pan-mahāyāna tone since the establishment of Vajracakra.

The issue of whether or not one needs to be a "Buddhist" in order to practice Buddhadharma is completely separate and does not apply only to Dzogchen.

I stand corrected, thank you Malcolm.Once more the dangers of received knowledge.

Thanks for the post weatherweather. It resonates. It is hard to see how we can collectively move aside from this lava like flow that you describe. It seems like all solutions are immediately engulfed by the cause.