“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.” - Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:in mountain clefts and chasms,loud gush the streamlets,but great rivers flow silently.- Sutta Nipata 3.725

For a seller, I guess it needs to be a drug to get a good amount of demand. I am not sure if we need to speak of a need in case of meat.

But that works for vegi-burger as well.

Just that! *smile*...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_

DAWN wrote:Yes, its addiction.Why? Because it brings pleasure. All that brings pleasure have addiction like consequence.

I don't think that is an accurate connection. Anything can be an addiction, including television, gambling, sex, or eating tofu or meat. (All of these might be enjoyable.) This does not mean everything is a drug.

DAWN wrote:Yes, its addiction.Why? Because it brings pleasure. All that brings pleasure have addiction like consequence.

I don't think that is an accurate connection. Anything can be an addiction, including television, gambling, sex, or eating tofu or meat. (All of these might be enjoyable.) This does not mean everything is a drug.

You don't need drugs to survive, but we do need food.

Exectly ! All is drug. Existance is drug.Life is drug. Drugs brings suffer. Samsara is addicted state of mind.

David N. Snyder wrote:You don't need drugs to survive, but we do need food.

So we need meat to survive?

Just that! *smile*...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_

David N. Snyder wrote:You don't need drugs to survive, but we do need food.

So we need meat to survive?

We don't need meat in our estomach to survive, but animals need that meat on their body to survive.

There is no eny exuse.Eat meat or wear leather is killing.Eat or use other animal products is slavery.Thats all. Stop resirch any exuse, there is no any exuse or condition "to have no kamma" or condition "to not have results of bad kamma". Stop think only about you, there is no only you and your kamma in this world... Stop defend Mara. Please.

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.” - Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:in mountain clefts and chasms,loud gush the streamlets,but great rivers flow silently.- Sutta Nipata 3.725

David N. Snyder wrote:You don't need drugs to survive, but we do need food.

So we need meat to survive?

We don't need meat in our estomach to survive, but animals need that meat on their body to survive.

There is no eny exuse.Eat meat or wear leather is killing.Eat or use other animal products is slavery.Thats all. Stop resirch any exuse, there is no any exuse or condition "to have no kamma" or condition "to not have results of bad kamma". Stop think only about you, there is no only you and your kamma in this world... Stop defend Mara. Please.

Killing is killingSlavery is slavery

Pay somebody to kill is encourage him to kill. Stop pay for crime.

This pig is agree with me >

I am sorry but isn't that a red heron/straw-man fallacy mix?

This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!Blog,-Some Suttas Translated,Ajahn Chah."Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."

DAWN wrote:All that is sad.Sometimes i think that for many peoples buddhism is just some kind hobbie that they can modify what they want and how they want just for save their ego.

Your projection, your responsibility.

DAWN wrote:It's sad.

No its not sad.

DAWN wrote:Blood is not a sweat, we cant wash it with some soap

Yes, you can wash it with soap.

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.” - Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:in mountain clefts and chasms,loud gush the streamlets,but great rivers flow silently.- Sutta Nipata 3.725

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.” - Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:in mountain clefts and chasms,loud gush the streamlets,but great rivers flow silently.- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Dan74 wrote:I think it is a good idea to cultivate patience and compassion for each other. Compassion for all sentient beings including the animals and those who eat them (human and otherwise).

None of us are perfect here and whether or not vegetarianism is a more noble choice, I don't think it helps anyone to be attacked regarding their choices.

That hurt my vegan-ego, is that peoples tryes to find justification when there is no any justification possible. I dont know why, but the food habits tuch the ego in heart... Like the food is somethink very important that supporting ego (vegan-ego or meat-ego), something very personal, very expensive... ultime pleasure When craving of mind is such strong, that he eat himself... This world is enflamen by craving...

Actualy, plants are also living beings, so the problem is more deeper... in the very existance. Every living being have to eat, distroy, absorb to survive, cause he think that his existance is much more important that the existance of an another living being.

Sabbe dhamma dukkha

Dan74 wrote:Incidentally our four year old had gone veggie in April (she was still 3) and she is sticking with it and slowly turning the rest of the family too. Here she is proudly wielding a broccoli!

Dan74 wrote:Incidentally our four year old had gone veggie in April (she was still 3) and she is sticking with it and slowly turning the rest of the family too. Here she is proudly wielding a broccoli!

Excellent! She must be a smart cookie. I say that not because she chose veggie, but simply because she made a conscious choice, any choice at such a young age. My son chose vegan (when the rest of us were lacto-ovo) at a young age and stuck with it even when the rest of were eating yummy pizza around him at the same meal. Later he did switch back to lacto-ovo and then our daughter went hard-core vegan. We never pushed any diet on them, it was their choice and often they took a stricter diet than my wife and I did.