My neglected bard/archer is wondering if he can use the masteries. I have 50 med on my template (could raise to 70 w/ Hunter's Headdress), 40 lmc, and can try to imbue about 7-9 mr on the suit. I use chiv heals for cure/heal.

Do I have enough for either the provo or disco masteries or are these only usable by mages with more med and higher mana pools?

i have a couple disco archers and was in the same boat wondering what to do.

ill tell ya what i found.
i found that the disco ones was where i thought i was gonna want my guys to be using, but i found it wans treally doing much for me.

the provo ones on the other hand are a little nicer.
but i like the disco.

so in the end i picked up the disco mastery, but i dont use them, i just do what i use to do and that is disco then shoot.

the med usage was just too heavy and i couldnt maintain my mana, specially when i was having to cast Eo0 and con weapon, bushy lightning, confidence to heal, then some chiv heal/cure and THEN a couple specials.
even with honor on and a mana leech weapon, i was able to keep good with just spells, but adding the disco mastery tanked my mana.

but for the couple extra damage points i was getting for the mastery spell for that template i didnt think it was worth it.

and i have 110 med on my guy with 40 LMC and like 10 MR on the suit.
which is pretty heavy on the med side as a suit goes.

now, if you can tag up with a provo bard that has the masteries, that would be good, cause he could use the inspire and youd get the HCI and SDI and the DI buffs.

VIPStratics Veteran

If you are hunting stuff that burst damage would be more helpful, disco masteries would be the way to go. If you are out for something less interactive and providing benefits to all actions in general then peace and provo are the way to go.

the peace and provo ones arnt bad, and i have a very nice suit to help me with it, but the disco one with all the other stuff i have chewing away on the mana im just not able to keep up.

the little 'burst' damage is nice, but compared to the mana needed to initiate and upkeep i can get probablly the same with lightning strike and the odd honor hit with little to no mana usage, and lets face it, mana is the fuel tank for the specials, eh.

but the odd burst is nice.
i do it with my disco tamer who only has like 20-40 focus from time to time, blast off a mastery and get a couple hits in with it to help my pet along.

Yeah, I tested both provo and disco masteries when they first came out, and again when the final changes were made, and I found the same thing. For disco, what you get from the mana expenditure just isn't worth it. I tried it on an archer with substantial leeching in addition to 12 MR in the suit and wasn't able to keep it going for more than maybe 8 seconds total. Since the cost to re-cast is pretty heavy (not to mention the time it takes), there's just better uses for my time and effort than trying to force a bard mastery into my process of killing things.

I'll stand by what I've been saying all along, that the way the masteries are implemented, there are very few highly specific situations where they are worthwhile, but for the vast vast majority of play, they belong on the scrap heap. The only times I even think about them now (and I'm pretty certain I'm in the top 1% of all UO bard skill users) are when I try to force myself to use them, other than that, they are a pain and not useful.

Now, the reduction in bard timers has been a boon that hasn't received enough praise. Provoke has always been my favorite skill (probably because I was using it daily long before discord was even introduced) and the reduction in timer is noticeable and highly useful. Discord can really keep up with the "all kill" command on my discord/tamer now against most monster situations. Sad thing is, this part of the change probably took about 5 minutes of development time and was basically arbitrary...at least it shows they listened to us about something.

But like Poo said, I pretty much play exactly the same way as before the masteries came out. That really should be considered a disappointment for the development team given that the most enthusiastic bard skill users, the ones that are always trying to fit bard skills into different templates, the ones that use them constantly on a daily basis, can find little to no use for the new masteries.

Interesting perspective, Luke. Thanks for sharing your experience with disco. It's been so long since my bard (incidentally, my namesake--Syrus of Gahd) has even worn a suit of armor, I wasn't even aware of the timer reduction. That's huge.

If you are hunting stuff that burst damage would be more helpful, disco masteries would be the way to go. If you are out for something less interactive and providing benefits to all actions in general then peace and provo are the way to go.

(Slayer Instrument + Slayer Weapon + Tribulation = phat damage)

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there is no doubt that the damage is hella huge.
but there arnt many mobs you can tank on while not taking the same if not more in damage in return and youll need to have some pretty high end healing/chugging going on.

from what i have been doing on playing and testing the bard masteries i have noticed a couple things.

my disco archer dosnt use them.

my disco tamer dont use them.

my peace tamer uses them, but i only take him out when a party is going out, which makes scence.

my pure bard uses them a LOT.

and that is the impericall data from me just sitting here looking at what ive been doing here in this last month.

so dependant on my template decides if i use the masteries, and that 90% of the time comes down to my mana pool / regen being there or in this case, not being there.

im not bashing the masteries.
i love them.
best thing in game for years as far as im concerned.
but ya have to tailor your template to them and your play style that is for certain.

Stratics Veteran

im overseas on a crappy connection. so, i cant really test it out. ill be back stateside in a month.
here is my question.
with 120 med/120 focus, 150 int, 190ish int...would i be able to keep a provo spell up continuously? if not, for how long would u say?
other question that i cant find on any guide or in these forums, are the provo bonuses (hci/di) applicable to going over the pvp cap?
i know the sdi is pvp capped at 15. not sure about the others.

Stratics Veteran

thanks for the info about the mana upkeep. i would try to test it on tc, but i cant move. i mostly make pots for the guild.

one thing im still not sure of after ur response is the bonuses given as far as pvp.
for instance, say my buddy in my party has 45 hci, will he have an effective 60 with the 15hci bonus from my prov song?
will the 40 di stack onto the damage dealt?

thanks for replying poo. that was my first post ever. been reading the boards for years.

Stratics Veteran

yeah. it helps in the sense that u answered my question. doesnt help in the fact that i have to go back to the drawing board. im lazy and already had provo worked up. gotta figure something else out now.

Stratics Veteran

I'll stand by what I've been saying all along, that the way the masteries are implemented, there are very few highly specific situations where they are worthwhile, but for the vast vast majority of play, they belong on the scrap heap. The only times I even think about them now (and I'm pretty certain I'm in the top 1% of all UO bard skill users) are when I try to force myself to use them, other than that, they are a pain and not useful.

I pretty much play exactly the same way as before the masteries came out. That really should be considered a disappointment for the development team given that the most enthusiastic bard skill users, the ones that are always trying to fit bard skills into different templates, the ones that use them constantly on a daily basis, can find little to no use for the new masteries.

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I think this is a very correct and important summary, something I feel similar about and wanted to hear from others.

Sorry I do not have anything more "constructive" to say about the masteries. I think it is very good creativity but not what I had in mind.

I would like to see Provocation to be useful again. How about decrease the timer between fails/trys. I think people would love to see the ACTUAL provocation action happen more.

And regarding the "phat damage", is it counted toward the bard's contribution in the programming (looting rights and top X hitter for reward)? Probably not.

Peace (target): how about weaken the mob's stat/skill or loses its special attacks for some time.

Peace (area): I'd like to see it reverted to the original area peace, the way it worked when UO first came out.

But then again, who thinks bards were probably too powerful, that's why it got nerf'd to today's status??

I think this is a very correct and important summary, something I feel similar about and wanted to hear from others.

Sorry I do not have anything more "constructive" to say about the masteries. I think it is very good creativity but not what I had in mind.

I would like to see Provocation to be useful again. How about decrease the timer between fails/trys. I think people would love to see the ACTUAL provocation action happen more.

And regarding the "phat damage", is it counted toward the bard's contribution in the programming (looting rights and top X hitter for reward)? Probably not.

Peace (target): how about weaken the mob's stat/skill or loses its special attacks for some time.

Peace (area): I'd like to see it reverted to the original area peace, the way it worked when UO first came out.

But then again, who thinks bards were probably too powerful, that's why it got nerf'd to today's status??

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I would like to see Provocation to be useful again. How about decrease the timer between fails/trys. I think people would love to see the ACTUAL provocation action happen more.

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they allready did massivlly reduce the timers.
for both the skills that you DONT have a mastery in and even more reduction in the skill you DO have a mastery in. Any more of a reduction in the timers and we wouldnt even need the timers.... but thats a whole nudder topic all together.

And regarding the "phat damage", is it counted toward the bard's contribution in the programming (looting rights and top X hitter for reward)? Probably not.

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yes it is counted towards the bards contribution (looting rights and top hitter and such) but only the first bard to get his 'bard off' on that mob

Peace (target): how about weaken the mob's stat/skill or loses its special attacks for some time.

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why would we need targeted peace to allready do what disco does?

i think the new masteries are more geared towards the pure bards and the mage bards.

i think the hybred templates suffer under the new bard masteries, or maybe it would be better said that they dont benifit from them, as they dont get penalised from them.
and they do get the reduction in the timers, so thats something.

so is it crappy that the masteries are only good for a couple templates and not ALL the bard templates..... well, they cant make everyone happy.

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