In his new documentary The Problem with Apu, Hari Kondabolu uses The Simpsons' Kwik-E-Mart owner as a lens onto Indian stereotypes.

In 1990, The Simpsons created Apu Nahasapeemapetilon, an Indian character who ran the Kwik-E-Mart convenience in Springfield. He spoke with a wicked accent and developed a simple catchphrase “thank you, come again,” which caught on with the audience despite the fact Apu only said this several times throughout the series.

Apu, who is voiced by Hank Azaria on the show, is the focus of an hour-long documentary titled The Problem With Apu which airs on Sunday, November 19 on TruTV. Executive produced by Hari Kondabolu, a stand-up comic from Brooklyn and the co-host of the Politically Re-Active Podcast with W. Kamau Bell, The Problem With Apu explores the origin of the character, the larger issues of South Indian representation in mainstream media, and tackles these topics by having conversations with some of the biggest names in the business, including Aziz Ansari, Whoopi Goldberg, Kal Penn and Dana Gould, a writer and executive producer on The Simpsons.

Many of the actors in the documentary share their own experiences with stereotypes in Hollywood and how the character of Apu impacted them negatively in both their personal and professional life. One person who does not speak on the record in the documentary is Azaria himself. Kondabolu, who calls Apu a “white guy doing an impression of a white guy making fun of my father,” spoke to us about the documentary, why everyone in Hollywood is so outspoken these days, whether he needs to have a conversation with Azaria about Apu for closure, and more.

GQ: We should clarify for anyone who is going to watch the documentary that you don’t actually hate The Simpsons.
Hari Kondabolu: No. My god. I’m a huge fan of The Simpsons. I think people on the internet have seen saying that because they haven’t seen the documentary. It’s so easy to say whatever you want without seeing it, and I think people tend to see things as black and white. It’s either you hate something or you love something, and that’s just not the way it works. You can love something and criticize it because you want it to be better or because you are disappointed and you want it to be the best it can be.

I think that’s why people criticize America, right? They see a great deal of potential and hope, and they see a lot that can be done given our resources, and the idea that we don’t live up to our promises is very disappointing. I feel, as a very small example, the same thing is true of Apu and The Simpsons.

It’s crazy to me, as such a stereotypical character, that Apu only says his catchphrase “thank you, come again” like eight times throughout the run of the series, and yet we remember it so well.
That’s why the character is so funny to people. It feeds into what they think about a particular community. It’s both reflective and shaping. Yes, they do run convenience stores, they do have acts that are goofy, and “thank you, come again” perfectly captures what people see in them. How [Indian people] say the same things over and over again, how they are like machines, and how they’re here for service. It feeds into all these images that people already have, and it ends up being the perfect thing. People were hungry for something to justify their racism. I think that line did it and the show did it.

You talked to a lot of people in entertainment for this, but you also showed a clip of Apu to your parents. Your mom laughed it off and wasn’t too offended by it. Have you thought more about this generational divide and why your parents might be less offended by Apu?
My mom didn’t care about Apu until she realized that it was affecting us. Both my parents lived in America more than they lived in India, and over time, there’s an ownership with America being your country. I think my parents gradually bought into this thing about Apu because they realize this is home now. When this is home, there’s certain entitlements that you feel. As a person who was born in this country, I certainly feel like I should be treated like everyone else. I was born here, so I am equal to all these white people who were born here too. They can’t tell me I’m less than them. The idea that we should be treated fairly doesn’t come into play until you feel settled, you feel financially secured, and until your kids get to a place where they’re experiencing things. For my parents, this type of attitude came with time.

In the documentary, you talk about how there were no South Asians on television when you were growing up. Who were the people that you looked up at the time?
There was Aasif Mandvi, who used to have a solo show called Sakina’s Restaurant that they used to play off-Broadway in New York. I would see the posters for it in the Indian stores in my community. I never got to see the show, but I the flyer for the show was in my room during all my four years at college. When he got on The Daily Show, it was a big deal for me. I was like, holy crap, it’s possible. Kal Penn is somebody I looked up to. I remember seeing him in American Desi, which was a community film. Even though the film was not good, we were all excited about it, because even if it was shitty, it was about us and staring South Asians. Even then, it was clear that Kal was super talented. When he made it, it was another sign that you could crack that glass ceiling and chip away at it. And Ajay Naidu from Office Space. I remember Ajay was cast on this show called LateLine on NBC. That was a big deal. Even though a lot of the parts he played were stereotypical, he existed, and he was a good actor.

Why do you think there are so many people speaking out now on issues dealing with Hollywood, whether it is racism, the whitewashing that continues to happen with casting, and everything else?
First of all, it’s because of the Internet. We don’t need to wait for someone to cover our stories. We don’t need to wait for the media to give us a chance to explain something. We can just do it. The ability to campaign on the Internet, with Twitter being a prime example, I think it adds pressure and forces the media to cover a story. I think Donald Trump getting elected has certainly lit a fire under a lot of people. We can’t wait anymore. I talked to a friend recently about the Harvey Weinstein story, and how people were already making accusations about him in the past, but it’s getting attention now and I think Trump is part of it. People knowing that Trump is present, and he’s saying all these things, and if we can’t take him down, then let’s take the Trumps in our community and our industry down. Let’s make a stand where we can because we can’t do anything about him.

Thinking about how much more outspoken we are now, do you think if The Simpsons came out today, do you think the character of Apu would exist?
No, it would be cut. I say that, but we gave a lot of passes to Family Guy too. I would be all into The Simpsons and then something racist would happen, and I’d be like, oh man, it’s a reminder that this show is for white people. I feel like Family Guy has elements of that, like, hey, this is really funny, hey, it’s a talking baby, hey, it’s a talking dog, hey, pop culture jokes, and… racism. I hold The Simpsons to a higher standard because it has these ideas of family and because of how smart the writing is, which is probably why seeing a character like Apu hurts more.

What do you want the show to do with Apu’s character?
The one thing I will say is I hope they don’t kill him. I think it’s lazy if they do, and it would be more disappointing than anything else. I hope they create something with him, whether he’s owning other businesses, or his kids get to talk so you can hear an Indian-American voice appear regularly on the show. Those are the things that would be cool for me to see if I were to watch the show regularly again.

You didn’t end up getting Hank Azaria to appear on camera for the film. Have you had a chance to chat with him since?
No. We’ll see if he makes a statement or wants to talk when the documentary comes out. I’m still open to talking. My hope is he watches it and is like, “I need to chip in.” I don’t think he wanted to be a part of it because he was worried about how we would edit the interview and how he would be portrayed, but I think it’s always better to actually be a part of it because you can share the truth. At the bare minimum, you can be careful in how you say the things you want to say. People appreciate honesty. They appreciate people who are actually willing to step up and tell the truth, and say, hey, I messed up, or yeah, I feel weird about this character, or, hey, it’s a very difficult position that I’m in. Whatever he had to say would have been interesting. At the end of the day, I wanted this film to be about having a conversation. I wanted it to be an example that adults can actually talk through stuff.

Do you feel like you need to have a conversation with Hank for any kind of closure regarding the character of Apu?
I’m a 35 year old and I don’t actually give a shit about Apu, you know what I mean? The weird thing is that we’ve been talking about Apu in our community for like, what, 25 years? I almost had to bring the passion back and relive it in order to express it for the documentary. A lot of times we’re just playing catch up. I use Fresh Off the Boat as an example. Fresh Off the Boat isn’t really Eddie Huang’s story anymore. It turned into a different show on ABC because the Asian-American family show should have been created 15 years ago. So, we’re playing catch up. America has to catch up to the idea of an Asian-American family on television. I feel like that’s what this documentary is too. It’s a way for people to catch up. At the end of the day, we shared a story that people might not have thought about. It’s entertaining, smart and thoughtful. And it’s not really about Apu. Apu is the way into the larger conversation about why it’s important for us to represent ourselves and why these things like Apu happen. Those were the things I really wanted to accomplish.