Uruk-Hai was submitted by a senior staffer. Bearing this fact in mind, I have not personally seen a definitively-presented case to prove that it does not qualify for the Archive in some way--normally, there is simply the assertion that it is not metal and not a side-project, and should be removed; a mere assertion countered in some capacity by the mere fact that it was added by a staffer (presumably a person who knows the rules and had personal knowledge or good reason to believe that the band qualified). This is the first occasion on which I have personally been presented with the more specific claim that it (Uruk-Hai) predates this Hugin fellow's involvement in any metal band. Without doing some active in-depth research, and assuming the Archive's chronology is correct, this assertion is not definitively proven by the information the Archive contains. Hrossharsgrani, supposedly a band with variously metal and ambient stylings, and one which Hugin is the core member of, was reportedly formed in 1998, with various demos and a debut release in 1999. Uruk-Hai reportedly was formed in 1999, with a split in 2001 and a compilation and proper debut release in 2003 (so there is a period of early overlap in the two bands' activities). Thus, the case may or may not hold water (note that as it far predates the additional distribution requirement, this is not imminently relevant, nor is it necessarily relevant that Hrossharsgrani may not have begun as a metal band). It is certainly possible that more depth of information may bear out the case for removal (I personally have no real knowledge of these groups and can certainly conceive of this as a possibility), but it would not be appropriate for one of us to remove it in the absence of a more complete case, any more than it would be appropriate to add a band with a borderline genre tag based solely on the word of the submitter that it is metal. Perhaps such a case has been presented in the past (and thus could conceivably be presented again), but for my part, I have only ever seen simpler assertions, many of them steeped in emotion.

Before you begin to indulge your pet persecution complex again, Viral, consider Morrigan's position (or the source of her displeasure). You made what you have openly admitted to have been an assumption, but you initially stated it as a stone cold fact, with an air of the sardonic to boot. This is clearly the source of her objection in this particular case, and I don't believe you are simple enough to be genuinely oblivious of or unable to understand this (few people would be). Ditto the idea that someone might be insulted by your pretending such obliviousness in defense of getting ahead of yourself for a moment (e.g. "I'm completely blameless, it was a 'legitimate claim'"). Do I see a "sorry, please calm down, I was misinformed?" No. Only excuses, and appeals to your woebegone status as a favored punching bag. Ever heard the term "self-fulfilling prophecy?" If not, you might do well to familiarize yourself with it.

As for Jesu, I've personally always been of a mind to nuke the shit out of them, based on what I'd heard. But it is a very famous band, and one purportedly metal for a fraction of its career (its degree of fame suggests that it must have been examined by at least some significant portion of the staff, which is why I will not blame Viral and others entirely for assuming it must have been an officially adjudicated case). It is, again, something that will require more procedural review. One of these days, perhaps I'll find myself able to be fucked to do it.

_________________The bizarre lattices were all around. Sticks and bits of board nailed together in fantastic array. It should've been ridiculous. Instead it seemed oddly sinister--these inexplicable lattices spread through a wilderness bearing little evidence that man had ever passed through...

Thank you, UndeadIdiot. Minutiae of that sort are exactly the reason why it is not meet to act on assertions alone, even if said assertions are chronically leveled.

_________________The bizarre lattices were all around. Sticks and bits of board nailed together in fantastic array. It should've been ridiculous. Instead it seemed oddly sinister--these inexplicable lattices spread through a wilderness bearing little evidence that man had ever passed through...

I'm quite aware of that release, it's been mentioned in a previous discussion about the project. Note that if anyone in the staff (or anyone else on this site) had ever heard that release, it's likely it'd have track lengths entered. Anyone can claim that any non-metal band has a metal release, if no one's ever heard that one it makes no difference.

And of course the submission predates that release by six years.

Also, on the subject of being submitted by a staff member, what difference does it make? In april '04 MMisantropo was very new to the staff anyway, had he submitted the band just a few months earlier it would suddenly be a whole different case? The rules were interpreted far less strictly back in those days and a lot of stuff got through that had to be deleted later on, alot of stuff that was submitted by users of all ranks. Times change, and given the evidence I doubt MMisantropo would have submitted that same project today, or in 2008, or even in 2006.

The point is that the mere fact of the possibility of an untoward addition cannot/should not in itself be taken as sufficient reason to remove a band, excepting those rare cases which are absolutely cut-and-dry (even my brief examination of this case shows that it is not one of those). In cases where there is both evidence that a submission may be viable (e.g. this was added by a mod / formation dates suggest the possibility that it could be parsed as a side-project / apparently it has a release which could be metal) and evidence that it may not be ( e.g. due to its early submission it was subject to less stringent standards / it may not be able to be parsed as a side-project), a case that is stronger than these sorts of basic assertions of possibility will usually be necessary to enable rapid removal of the band. I have not yet seen such a case presented concerning this particular band, though again, I grant the possibility that one could be made.

_________________The bizarre lattices were all around. Sticks and bits of board nailed together in fantastic array. It should've been ridiculous. Instead it seemed oddly sinister--these inexplicable lattices spread through a wilderness bearing little evidence that man had ever passed through...

on the side-project issue:
Uruk Hai was formed after hugin recorded with hrossharsgrani the demo named "uruk-hai" but because the sound was more ambient than the hrossharsgrani stuff he thought it does not fit to this project.
therefor he started uruk-hai as a side project for the more ambient releases, first demo "in durins hall" is nothing else than a re-recorded version of the "uruk hai" demo from hrossharsgrani.
recently the newer uruk-hai material is developing more into metal/ambient than pure ambient

about angband:
i listened to the whole angband release. there are some entirely metal-tracks as back in the fields, northhammer...
but also a lot of metal/ambient songs on it.

So (in)famous that I've once again never heard of them either. Go figure.

The infamy of this and other such projects is confined to this thread and its predecessor. Perhaps you should look at it more often, because as I explained it is pretty much the main source of any false rumours regarding suspected owner exceptions.

I had no idea it was me you were talking about till I read my nickname. If you'd asked me five minutes ago, I'd have answered that I'd never heard of this Uruk-Hai band.

I don't listen to ambient side-projects at all. Sometimes moderators submit bands in order to fix split albums, because of a user report, or for moving an album wrongly added to an homonymous band... Again, I have no idea what was the case here. And yes, the rules were way less strict and less clear/understood six years ago. Feel free to reevaluate this band's presence in the archives.

And There's no samples nothing more just Genre named.Also I checked all bands since they're subbmited back in 2007 and I think that 3 years time is quite enough to get some info about these bands (Demo Info/Tracklist/Photos/Line Ups),but as I see most of bands profiles (90%) contains info like : Released Demo And Thats it.Is that fair to leave all these bands in Metal-Archives?

C.P.R. has several problems. Firstly, they're listed as jazz/rock/fusion, which isn't exactly metal.

A worse problem, however, is that C.P.R. is not a band, per se - it's simply the name under which Randy Coven released his third solo album (to quote his myspace, "Randy recorded two more solo CDs 'Sammy Says Ouch' and 'C.P.R'"). So, if C.P.R. is to stay, it really should be renamed Randy Coven and his other solo albums should be added (Funk Me Tender, Sammy Says Ouch, Witch Way), which are pretty much stylistically identical.

While the sample(s) up on MySpace are borderline, the user who made the submission provided downloads of full songs and after listening to them I decided to accept the band. Most of the stuff I heard sounded like old Theater of Tragedy.

If you've listened to the entire album and still don't believe that they belong here, perhaps you could share it (by way of report or post it here) and we will reevaluate it.

While the sample(s) up on MySpace are borderline, the user who made the submission provided downloads of full songs and after listening to them I decided to accept the band. Most of the stuff I heard sounded like old Theater of Tragedy.

If you've listened to the entire album and still don't believe that they belong here, perhaps you could share it (by way of report or post it here) and we will reevaluate it.

I think (but I'm not sure) that this band you've added: http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=3540310851 it is, actually, Ethereal, the pre-Lacuna Coil band, just mispelled. The location (Milan), the genre and the year of their only release let me think so!!!

Do you know if the Ethereal promo was actually available to the public? According to an early archived biography from Lacuna Coil's official site, the tape was only sent out to labels in Europe. If that's the case then I will remove the band.

Do you know if the Ethereal promo was actually available to the public? According to an early archived biography from Lacuna Coil's official site, the tape was only sent out to labels in Europe. If that's the case then I will remove the band.

Hi, honestly I don't know if their demo released as Ethereal was distributed to the public, but honestly their official biography says the this Promo was ALSO sent to many labels, not ONLY sent to many labels. In my opinion is a slighy but important difference!