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The membership is no longer part of the silent majority who play nice and get along while getting screwed by anyone with a loud voice and an agenda.
We will no longer allow anyone to piss down our back and tell us it's raining.
And we like guns too.

If we were created just like Him and we're sinners...wouldn't that make God a sinner too?

And don't tell me about Adam and Eve, it was just two people at the time, He could have fixed them easily back then...or perhaps we were not made like him, which means The Bible is wrong.

Not being a religious type I like to wonder about these things from a different point of view.

It doesn't say "His" ,but rather "our" image. Remember, the Holy Spirit and the angels.

Adam and Eve were made free of sin, but, God also gave them/us free will and the serpent (Satan?) took advantage of that. If God hadn't given us free will, we'd not be free.

No, the Bible isn't wrong. The Bible is the Word of God, so it's impossible to be wrong.

Go back to Genesis 1:26.

Quote:

Genesis 1:26 New International Version (NIV)

26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

Brian

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Here at the Dirty Dozen's Bunker, we have no problems, only solutions.

You will say God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, but then...the son didn't come for a few thousand years so why did they write about him?

I try to look at it from an open mind as I have never been brought up in a religious way so I'm not blinded by previous conceptions.

And I thought the Bible as we know it today was a compilation of writings by diverse people. Moses was the first with the five books of the Torah which were later incorporated into the Old Testament. Correct me if I'm wrong, which I probably am.

You will say God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, but then...the son didn't come for a few thousand years so why did they write about him?

I try to look at it from an open mind as I have never been brought up in a religious way so I'm not blinded by previous conceptions.

And I thought the Bible as we know it today was a compilation of writings by diverse people. Moses was the first with the five books of the Torah which were later incorporated into the Old Testament. Correct me if I'm wrong, which I probably am.

No, "our" meaning God, the Holy Spirit and the angels. But, Jesus, in my opinion, has always been there. There are references to him a couple/few times in Genesis and all through the Old Testament.

Being new to the Bible and to the Church in general, I have been absorbing as much as I can.

Adam and Eve were created without sin. They were given the Garden of Eden to live in on one condition - not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. They blew it and ate from it, anyway - with a little encouragement from the serpent, who was most likely Satan. They were banished from the Garden not only for their disobedience, but also to keep them from eating from The Tree of Life, which is believed would have given them immortality in their sinful state.

Would I have done any better than them? I honestly don't know. Considering Adam walked in the Garden with God and talked with Him pretty regularly, you would think he would have resisted temptation better. Would I, who has never looked upon the face of God, but only wonder at His creation, and believe in Him through faith alone have done any better? It is the height of arrogance to think I would have.

Then God laid down laws that would make mankind's life a little easier. If you contemplate the Old Testament laws, you will find they pertain to healthy eating and sanitation. They restrict behaviors to prevent disease, moral degeneration and even birth defects. They also were to show mankind how to be obedient to God. Remember, mankind is in the state it is in because of disobedience.

But, the rules were too hard. It was easier to follow foreign and false gods. So, God finally had enough and sent His Son, Jesus, to set the example on how to live. He was born of a woman and had to go through childhood - to show that He understood what it was to be a man. Jesus simplified the law - made it so everyone could understand it. But His biggest mission was to be the final blood sacrifice for mankind. No longer would anyone have to fret over finding their best sacrifice for the corrupt priests to take or deny.

Just being sacrificed was not enough. Who would trust a dead god? Jesus went to hell and spread the word there. Then he came back, showing that death was not the end. For 40 days he cruised around with his apostles and showed everyone that he had been killed, entombed, and rose again. After that, he left to prepare a place for His people in Heaven.

At the end of days, He will return again, but not as a meek preacher. He will come back with a firey sword.......

John 1:1

"In the beginning was the Word. The Word was with God, and the Word was God."

It is common acceptance that the Word in this case, is Jesus, as it is the introductory paragraph to the life and times of Jesus. So, Jesus was there at the beginning.

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Μολών Λαβέ!! WWHBD

"The truly dangerous man dresses inconspicuously and is soft- spoken. He walks away from most confrontations. The only time you learn that the truly dangerous man is mad at you is a split second before you die, for he never fights. He only kills. The truly dangerous man knows that fighting is what children do and killing is what men do." - Charley Reese 19863

Adam and Eve were created without sin. They were given the Garden of Eden to live in on one condition - not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. They blew it and ate from it, anyway - with a little encouragement from the serpent, who was most likely Satan. They were banished from the Garden not only for their disobedience, but also to keep them from eating from The Tree of Life, which is believed would have given them immortality in their sinful state.

Would I have done any better than them? I honestly don't know. Considering Adam walked in the Garden with God and talked with Him pretty regularly, you would think he would have resisted temptation better. Would I, who has never looked upon the face of God, but only wonder at His creation, and believe in Him through faith alone have done any better? It is the height of arrogance to think I would have.

Then God laid down laws that would make mankind's life a little easier. If you contemplate the Old Testament laws, you will find they pertain to healthy eating and sanitation. They restrict behaviors to prevent disease, moral degeneration and even birth defects. They also were to show mankind how to be obedient to God. Remember, mankind is in the state it is in because of disobedience.

But, the rules were too hard. It was easier to follow foreign and false gods. So, God finally had enough and sent His Son, Jesus, to set the example on how to live. He was born of a woman and had to go through childhood - to show that He understood what it was to be a man. Jesus simplified the law - made it so everyone could understand it. But His biggest mission was to be the final blood sacrifice for mankind. No longer would anyone have to fret over finding their best sacrifice for the corrupt priests to take or deny.

Just being sacrificed was not enough. Who would trust a dead god? Jesus went to hell and spread the word there. Then he came back, showing that death was not the end. For 40 days he cruised around with his apostles and showed everyone that he had been killed, entombed, and rose again. After that, he left to prepare a place for His people in Heaven.

At the end of days, He will return again, but not as a meek preacher. He will come back with a firey sword.......

John 1:1

"In the beginning was the Word. The Word was with God, and the Word was God."

It is common acceptance that the Word in this case, is Jesus, as it is the introductory paragraph to the life and times of Jesus. So, Jesus was there at the beginning.

The Word IS Christ Jesus.

Quote:

Originally Posted by klauss

The bible can be wrong, and most likely is. The Bible is the word of God but it has also been written/transcribed by man who has been corrupted.

I believe in the fundamental truth of the Bible, but realize there are many different versions due to mans influence.

Only to nonbelievers. Remember, the Bible is the word of God. God is never wrong.

Here’s my thoughts for what they are worth but it’s a bit hard to separate the whole creation story and the fall of man from the account of Adam & Eve, it’s kind of one and the same thing.

As a Christian, my benchmark & final authority will always be bible so I’d see it and summarise it something like this:

God did indeed create Adam & Eve in His image, physically & morally perfect. So they were originally just like Him in purity. It wasn’t until they sinned that they became corrupted. There was only one rule, they had free will & they sinned.

There were consequences for their actions which they had to face. Unfortunately, the introduction of sin effects everyone of us. A bit like when drug addicted AIDS positive mother give birth to an AIDS positive crack baby, not the kid’s fault but AIDS positive none the less through the poor choices of the parent. We are all “sin positive” because of Adam & Eve’s poor choice to commit the original sin. Bad news is that the wages of sin is death, physically & spiritually, we still carry that today and are in need of redemption.

Yes, God could have reset everything but the “fall of man” wasn’t a surprise to Him as the Bible says he knows the end from the beginning and the beginning from the end so along with judgement comes the extension of grace and mercy.

So we have a sacrificial system instituted where the innocent dies a substitutionary death for the guilty thus atoning for sin. Under Moses this was formalised with various prescribed animal sacrifices pointing towards and being fulfilled ultimately in the death of Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God, on the cross.

I often think about how God could have just reset things but there seems to be a back story that involves some kind of contest between God and the devil. That conflict existed before the creation and it is as if the devil set out to corrupt God’s creation intentionally through the deception of Eve and the introduction of sin into the story.

God the Father, however, deals with the sin issue through the death and resurrection of the Son and then, according to the bible, will ultimately cast the devil and everything that causes sin along with the ungodly into the lake of fire. At the end of the day this will leave a group of people redeemed and sanctified through the blood of Jesus who then get to spend eternity with him with no chance of anything getting derailed again and God wins the contest with the devil.

Sorry for a long answer but that would be my take based on how I understand the Book. :-)