I railed against the Father most of my life, came to study occult literature a little bit in my twenties, but found it starving for Truth, and essentially a relativistic practice of self delusion.

For instance, masturbating on sigils: any man who spills his seed in exchange for a gift of the world has symbolically offered life for death, continuance for transiency. That is what it is before man attaches his theories upon it, for life is of the seed and the seed lives on, but a new job or a corvette are mere place holders, temporary pleasures/benefits.

The belief that "nothing is true" is also a theory of man, which conveniently allows for him to make theory upon theory upon theory thereafter, since "nothing is true."

The "occult" attracted me because I sought knowledge, and all I found were people seeking "things" or worldly power. It wasn't until my studies came to classical history that I began to figure out what I was after, and its always related to that which we initially rebelled against in childhood.

The damn church. My hate of it has only grown, though I know my Father is real and his laws self evident, his history is real and Jews are certainly not who they claim to be. In fact, religion had never much to do with scripture, because religion is pagan idolatry that is clearly described in the "bible."

When a man asks, "if there was a God almighty he would never let us suffer like this, right?" What he is doing is imagining a jute-box God that is at our beck and call, rather than a stern judge, fount of justice and wisdom, without which there's be no order in creation.

All civilization began with an adherence to the spirit of the ten commandments, whether they called them that or not. A study of Sparta from classical primary texts proves it of them, the roman republic as well. Neither were "pagan" for both honored the Father (Zeus or Jove) by practicing his laws. Race mixing, usury, graven idols were diminished, whereas the rise of empires always reversed the humble beginnings and brought ruin to centuries of prosperity. Expanded borders, multiculturalism, and gawdy temples and statues are hallmarks of Babylon.

I expect nothing from this post, but I posted in here years back, and on the old MySpace occult forums, and I had a memory flashback of those days, and the irony that I used to openly slam Christianity on a regular basis.

I could never seperate the Christ from church, and thus had no idea what I was rebelling against. And judeo Christians worship the devil, while occultists worship....well anything as long as its not the Father.

I would like to have the time to give this a proper response, but I don't, so this is what you get.

The kind of revelations you are discovering are not all that uncommon, especially among people who have gone down the whole "Chaos Magic and LHP" descending stairway. There is a lot of interesting stuff there, but it does not demand an oxcart full of textbooks to grasp it, and so it usually doesn't get much chance to develop into the intricate systems of Old Time Religion. I am consistently amused at the way people will pick apart every aspect of Christianity (for example) but will go around proclaiming themselves grand high witches on the authoritative basis of a handful of paperbacks.

The sad fact is, most of those criticisms of Christianity are well-justified. The Bible is indeed full of kooky nonsense, the preacher really does want your money or your wife, and church communities might just as well be experiments in conformity. It's hard to overlook some of the failings in Christianity, both historically and in the present time.

And it's hard to ditch them in favor of Your Own Personal Jesus. While there are so many denominations that you could probably find one to fit any particular view of God, most will require that you adapt to whatever they teach and then ignore whatever is obviously wrong with them. Your gnosis might elevate you above that kind of petty herd membership, but it's just as lonely being the rogue Apostle of Christ as it is being a Shamanic Buddhist Druid.

I always thought the bible was a mishmash of contradictions, thrown together by magi who wished to control empires.

Even a year ago I maintained this notion. But how many of us have actually used a strong center concordance and the KJV and studied it ourselves?

If we view the bible as a folk religion, I.e. for a particular people (Israelites) then these contradictions evaporate. Christ did not advocate genocide AND universal compassion, he advocated the destroying of the tares and goats in matthew 13 and compassion for kinsman elsewhere. Love your own first, I.e. "first estate."

John 3:16 "and He so loved the 'world'"........world in this passage is the Greek "cosmos," which means "ordered or lawful civilization," essentially, and in other places it means "aeon," but translated "world." The term "gentile" isn't even a Greek or Hebrew word, and in roman times it meant "non roman," by the 1400s it meant "non Jew," but in the original manuscripts its not even used, rather "ethnos" or " eidololatris" are common words that "gentiles" has super ceded by scribes for political purposes.

Not trying to convert occultists here, rather witnessing to any who seek, because I used to angrily prosletyze against it, when I knew nothing of it. Make of it whatever, but I am not advocating religion or anything proffered by Christians for the last 150 years or so. My disgust for judeo and catholic denominations is deeper then ever.

" And judeo Christians worship the devil, while occultists worship....well anything as long as its not the Father."

Nothing in that statement makes any sense whatsoever.

Doesn't it though? I don't recall meeting many, if any, occultists who worshiped the creator or recognized that we had a Father watching over us and judging our actions. In fact, that usually angers occultists.

Doesn't it though? I don't recall meeting many, if any, occultists who worshiped the creator or recognized that we had a Father watching over us and judging our actions. In fact, that usually angers occultists.

Maybe you did not but history is full of examples.Take for instance the Monks who we know collected,distributed and may even have composed many of the Grimoires.I think it is safe to say they indeed worshipped the Father.

By contrast I do not see any record of Judeo-Christians worshipping the Devil.

Maybe you did not but history is full of examples.Take for instance the Monks who we know collected,distributed and may even have composed many of the Grimoires.I think it is safe to say they indeed worshipped the Father.

By contrast I do not see any record of Judeo-Christians worshipping the Devil.

A record? Just listen to a judeo christian spout their theology. They worship the biblical devil, the spirit of Babylon. All are welcome, all kinds from every quarter, come worship at the civic temples of empire! Help the usurers and liars spread their filth to every land, for they are chosen. You, the inheritors of Christendom, have no dog in the fight. Forget your ancestors, they were wrong, they were bigots and war mongers, for they waged war against Satan's children, and now we must help those children loot the world for empire, or else we are "anti-semitic". Just go along and preach peace, peace, peace!

All faiths are welcome, all gods are good, laws were put away, so do as thou willest. Judeo Christians do not honor the commandments, and disregard their Father.

Not everyone will understand this, and it's not my job to ensure that it makes sense to you. I don't have the time or the motivation to explain everything to everyone; It's all here on the Forum though, if someone bothers to look. This also avoids redundancy.

Our virtues and our failings are inseparable, like force and matter. When they separate, man is no more. - Nicola Tesla

I was a Gospel Doctrine teacher (and held other ordained offices) in the LDS church, and I have studied the hermeneutics as well as the Jewish lore related to the Bible. I think there remains a great deal of interpretive potential, but if your thesis is that some particular group of people needs to be regarded as "the bad guys," you have probably missed something.

A record? Just listen to a judeo christian spout their theology. They worship the biblical devil, the spirit of Babylon. All are welcome, all kinds from every quarter, come worship at the civic temples of empire! Help the usurers and liars spread their filth to every land, for they are chosen. You, the inheritors of Christendom, have no dog in the fight. Forget your ancestors, they were wrong, they were bigots and war mongers, for they waged war against Satan's children, and now we must help those children loot the world for empire, or else we are "anti-semitic". Just go along and preach peace, peace, peace!

All faiths are welcome, all gods are good, laws were put away, so do as thou willest. Judeo Christians do not honor the commandments, and disregard their Father.

I was a Gospel Doctrine teacher (and held other ordained offices) in the LDS church, and I have studied the hermeneutics as well as the Jewish lore related to the Bible. I think there remains a great deal of interpretive potential, but if your thesis is that some particular group of people needs to be regarded as "the bad guys," you have probably missed something.

Not so. Read the prophecy of Obadiah. Read Matthew 13. Or, read each and every prophet who constantly warned the people of their foreign harlotry and idolatry. Read how the races of moab and ammon and the philistines were completely destroyed, leaving no remnants.

In Obadiah, the descendants of Esau, the edomites, are foretold to be destroyed as a race. Esau was the first son of Isaac, and the kingship of Israel was his, but he almagalmated with hittite wives, and sold his birthright. All his descendants were half breeds.

Haven't heard Judeo Christians mention that. Ever. But the bible is full of these warnings. Mind blowing how anti christian modern Christians actually are. I wonder how many occultists would have rebelled had they been guided by righteous pastors.

I was a Gospel Doctrine teacher (and held other ordained offices) in the LDS church, and I have studied the hermeneutics as well as the Jewish lore related to the Bible. I think there remains a great deal of interpretive potential, but if your thesis is that some particular group of people needs to be regarded as "the bad guys," you have probably missed something.

Jewish lore. In complete contrast to scripture. They aren't and never were Judah, as Christ proclaims in john 8:31-47. Your diocese was corrupt before you ever got there.

Historical record? I'm talking about Christians of today. However, constantly in the old testament is related how false preachers blaspheme the temple of Yahweh with foreign god worship, harlotry (as with Jezebel) and all while preaching "Yahweh!"

But the best example is from Christ himself, who accused the pharisees of not being of Abraham but of their father the devil. And they certainly pretended to be priests akin to moses, but they were the exact opposite.

In the Gospel Doctrine lessons, the main lesson about Esau is that he would have been the legitimate heir, but opted out for personal reasons. There are plenty of people who would rather eat, drink, and be merry than have the responsibility of rulership over a nation.

Despite their differences, Jacob and Esau eventually part ways on good terms. The opt-out worked for Esau and he had every right to live in his own way, and for all we can tell from scripture, that worked for him. While it may have worked out well enough for Esau, his descendants became sore at having to live in caves while Jacob's descendants became wealthy. The lesson is ultimately about how personal choices affect generations down the road. This is usually followed by questions about how we came to be in our present places in society as a result of the life choices of our parents and grandparents.

Did you have some specific point to make? From your post, it appears that you want to look at the Esau story as a lesson in the hazards of race mixing. There is certainly ample room for viewing a large chunk of the Old Testament as racist toward anything not Hebrew, but there are probably some other ideas in there as well.

For.my own part, my replies in this thread are really just a fancy way of reminding you that there are a lot of ways to look at things like the Bible, and you cannot claim to hold the definitive (or even correct!) one, no matter how strongly you feel about it.