@universe wrote:On the Monay 30th. April when Madeleine's name was shown to only stayed in the creche for 15minutes and then taken out again was the day that Mark Warner's people in on the coverup wanted the Mccanns to stage a beachside abduction and not a bogus abduction at apartment 5a. However, the Mccanns dissagreed with initial plan and wanted to have the abduction in the apartment so as to keep their hold over Warners to maintain their use of their finiancial and legal protection sources.

Universe, in this scenario, who would have been at the creche on Monday if the accident happened on Sunday night?

Universe to Violet... Sadly, Madeleine never went to creche as it was closed on Sundays and she died on SUNDAY evening. If you read all the statements on files you will read all the lies and coverups by Mark Warner/OC and the Mccons in detail.

The information comes from Dewi Lennard (Kikorattan on Twitter) who says that Elizabeth's parents were in PdL at the same time, and also had with them E's friend Madalene (whose parents were not there). GM is on the Kids Club sheets as having signed in Elizabeth and Madeleine McCann. All small and blond and pretty, I am sure, so indistinguishable one from another to any casual observer.

@Ashwarya wrote:The information comes from Dewi Lennard (Kikorattan on Twitter) who says that Elizabeth's parents were in PdL at the same time, and also had with them E's friend Madalene (whose parents were not there). GM is on the Kids Club sheets as having signed in Elizabeth and Madeleine McCann. All small and blond and pretty, I am sure, so indistinguishable one from another to any casual observer.

@universe wrote:Universe to Violet... Sadly, Madeleine never went to creche as it was closed on Sundays and she died on SUNDAY evening. If you read all the statements on files you will read all the lies and coverups by Mark Warner/OC and the Mccons in detail.

Are we expected to believe that MW's much vaunted provisions for babies/toddlers/kids/teens being available for 6 days a week was as misadvertised in 2007 as it is now, universe?

@universe wrote:Universe to Violet... Sadly, Madeleine never went to creche as it was closed on Sundays and she died on SUNDAY evening. If you read all the statements on files you will read all the lies and coverups by Mark Warner/OC and the Mccons in detail.

I've always been puzzled why the McCanns seem so bothered about petty sums of money when they must have been on good salaries as doctors. And what were they doing in a cheapo self-catering resort in the first place?

They don't like it when people ridicule the importance they seem to place on money but they do bring it on themselves, methinks.

In my opinion, obviously.

Mark Warner holidays aren't known for being a cheap option, Brian, and the McCanns and their chums' holidayed on a half-board basis with breakfast and either lunch or an evening meal with unlimited local wine included in the price - subsequently upgraded gratis after 3 May to an all you can scoff&quaff inclusive deal.

Childcare for under 5's can seriously rack up the cost of a MW holiday, as can be seen from the current tariff for the mini-club which Madeleine allegedly attended: 6 Mornings: 9am to 12.30pm - FREE6 Afternoons: 2.30pm to 5.30pm - FREE6 Full days: 9am to 12.30pm & 2.30pm to 5.30pm - £180 per week

However, when it came to the twins, it would seem the McCanns benefited from something of a 2 for 1 discount until MW picked up the tab and, most considerately, opened the toddlers' club especially for them on Saturday 6 May. Toddler 16 Mornings: 9am to 12.30pm - £180 per week 6 Afternoons: 2.30pm to 5.300pm - £180 per week 6 Full days: 9am to 12.30pm & 2.30pm to 5.30pm - £360 per week

The sea air must have gone to Gerry's head as, allegedly, the McCann family didn't breakfast at the Millenium after Sunday 29 April and shopped at the Baptista for eggs&bacon cereals which they ate in their apartment.

If Murat was flown back as a matter of urgency to arrange the scam for both parties, he would have been the last person for the Tapas group to point the finger at. He would have sung within the week to save his own skin and reputation imo.

I seriously question if Murat knew what he was getting involved with being helpful, until the meeting with his lawyer and Kennedy much later, possibly.

Side issues:

The friends would have simply denied knowing KM sedated her kids. Nowt to do with them what people do in private to their kids. They wouldn't be struck off for that.

It does make sense that MW might have moved them to 5a post incident to remove DNA that showed drugs. So which family were in there that had the 'light-up' kids trainers? Naylor, Rider, Wilkins or other? Is that how they might have been persuaded to take pity on these bereaved parents? Could there have been a substantial upgrade to a palatial villa for any inconvenience? Or other benefits?

@Latetothecase wrote:It does make sense that MW might have moved them to 5a post incident to remove DNA that showed drugs. So which family were in there that had the 'light-up' kids trainers? Naylor, Rider, Wilkins or other? Is that how they might have been persuaded to take pity on these bereaved parents? Could there have been a substantial upgrade to a palatial villa for any inconvenience? Or other benefits?

DNA cannot "show drugs". DNA is just a genetic material. Blood and other bodily fluids can contain drugs, easy to found out if there is enough of these fluids to make a tox screen. I don't know, though, why Mark Warner would cover up for the McCanns drug usage on children.

@Latetothecase wrote:It does make sense that MW might have moved them to 5a post incident to remove DNA that showed drugs. So which family were in there that had the 'light-up' kids trainers? Naylor, Rider, Wilkins or other? Is that how they might have been persuaded to take pity on these bereaved parents? Could there have been a substantial upgrade to a palatial villa for any inconvenience? Or other benefits?

DNA cannot "show drugs". DNA is just a genetic material. Blood and other bodily fluids can contain drugs, easy to found out if there is enough of these fluids to make a tox screen. I don't know, though, why Mark Warner would cover up for the McCanns drug usage on children.

@Latetothecase wrote:It has also been mentioned the lack of breakfast material in the kitchen considering they had decided to eat in their apartment every morning, which could indicate a quick switch imo.

The lack of breakfast stuff in the apartment is easy explainable, as the Millenium staff recognised in the McCanns the people that were breakfasting there. McBunch lied again about eating breakfasts in their apartment. But why?

@Latetothecase wrote:It has also been mentioned the lack of breakfast material in the kitchen considering they had decided to eat in their apartment every morning, which could indicate a quick switch imo.

The lack of breakfast stuff in the apartment is easy explainable, as the Millenium staff recognised in the McCanns the people that were breakfasting there. McBunch lied again about eating breakfasts in their apartment. But why?

@Latetothecase wrote:It has also been mentioned the lack of breakfast material in the kitchen considering they had decided to eat in their apartment every morning, which could indicate a quick switch imo.

The lack of breakfast stuff in the apartment is easy explainable, as the Millenium staff recognised in the McCanns the people that were breakfasting there. McBunch lied again about eating breakfasts in their apartment. But why?

She says that the child and her parents frequented the restaurant where they would have breakfast.When asked, she says that she can not remember the date when they first began to frequent the restaurant.However she is certain that they frequented the restaurant from the beginning of the week.http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ANA-SILVA.htm

Cecilia Paula Dias Firmino do Carmo

When asked, she says that she knows the parents, the siblings and Madeleine. She received them for breakfast on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday, she does not know whether they went for breakfast on Sunday or Monday, as these were her days off.

After seeing their [the McCann's] picture, he immediately remembered that he had seen them having breakfast in the restaurant where he works, but that he does not remember any situation in particular involving this family, nor does he remember hearing or noticing any strange situation involving their presence.http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOHN_YOUNG.htm

Pedro Alexandre Gonzaga Ribeiro

He says that he has no knowledge of any strange events before the disappearance. With regard to the McCann family, he has nothing to say as he had no close contact with them.

@Latetothecase wrote:Don't get me wrong, it's quite neat but for one thing.

If Murat was flown back as a matter of urgency to arrange the scam for both parties, he would have been the last person for the Tapas group to point the finger at. He would have sung within the week to save his own skin and reputation imo.

I seriously question if Murat knew what he was getting involved with being helpful, until the meeting with his lawyer and Kennedy much later, possibly.

Side issues:

The friends would have simply denied knowing KM sedated her kids. Nowt to do with them what people do in private to their kids. They wouldn't be struck off for that.

It does make sense that MW might have moved them to 5a post incident to remove DNA that showed drugs. So which family were in there that had the 'light-up' kids trainers? Naylor, Rider, Wilkins or other? Is that how they might have been persuaded to take pity on these bereaved parents? Could there have been a substantial upgrade to a palatial villa for any inconvenience? Or other benefits?

It is of interest to me that the early human scent sniffer dogs that were sent by Portuguese police ran from apartment 5A and alerted to nearby apartment 5J, which apparently was empty.

Of course, it may well be that the items that the McCanns gave the Portuguese police for the sniffer dogs to scent did not, in fact, have the scent of Madeleine on them. Given how deceptive the Ms and Tapas have been, and given that it would appear that neither the McCanns nor the Tapas actually WANTED anyone to find Madeleine (especially not the Portuguese police) it would be likely that TM would want the dogs to follow a false scent. One that went in the direction of the alleged abductor. And not in the direction that the (probably deceased) Madeleine was taken.

In order to support the 'abduction from apartment 5A by mystery person' theory the sniffer dogs would obviously need to follow a scent away from apartment 5A that lead quickly away, as, logically, the 'abductor' would want to make a quick get-away so as to not be spotted. It would simply not be plausible to suggest that 'the abductor' would head off in a random fashion and wander around somewhat aimlessly for 45 minutes or so (as would appear to be suggested by the Smith-man sighting, if, as TM allege, Tanner-man and Smith-man are the same person).

So you would think that TM would have wanted the scent trail to go directly out of 5A to the nearest exit point from the block, and then in the direction that Jane Tanner's Tanner-man allegedly went.

But the early sniffer dogs did not do this. The went from apartment 5A to allegedly empty nearby apartment 5J (which is in the opposite direction to the nearest exit from the block) then circled the whole block before exiting in the direction of Baptista supermarket.

A completely different direction to that taken by Tanner-man. In actual fact, was this more in the direction taken by Smith-man????

Oops!! What is going on here?

Of interest is that the early media reports about the findings of the human scent sniffer dogs claim that they went in the direction of Tanner-man. Whereas, if you look in the PJ files, you will see this is a lie. The sniffer dogs went in an entirely different direction. The direction of the supermarket. (The direction of Smith-man??)

So what is going on here? Why did the sniffer dogs alert outside apartment 5J? Whose scent was on the material given to Portuguese police by Team McCann? Presumably, if Madeleine had died earlier in the week (say) and the Mcs and their friends wanted to be deceptive about it and fake an abduction of Madeleine from apartment 5A on Thursday night, then they would have made sure that there was a certain scent trial away from apartment 5A that the sniffer dogs would follow? Someone from TM, say, prior to the time of the alleged 'abduction' would walk away from apartment 5A in the direction in which Madeleine had allegedly been taken by her abductor. Then the scent of that 'someone' would be given by TM to the early human scent sniffer dogs. So the dogs would follow the route that was allegedly taken by Madeleine's abductor.

But this did not happen. The sniffer dogs did not take a direct exit from 5A into the street. They circled around the block alerting at another apartment. Then they went in a completely different direction to Tanner-man.

Oh dear! What went wrong, TM? Why did the sniffer dogs not support your hypothesis? Why did they not support your Tanner-man conspiracy theory? Why did they go in the wrong direction?

And then, later, why did cadaver sniffer dogs detect the scent of a body in apartment 5A.

Those pesky sniffer dogs, eh?

I wonder who apartment 5J belongs to. And whether or not this apartment was actually empty that fateful week?

The item for scent the McCanns tried to give the police first, the police immediately realised had smaller hairs and belonged to the twins. So they had to get something that was Madeleine's? I don't know much about the dogs yet, but I know if she was in the arms of someone the dogs wouldn't get much of a scent because they're off the ground.

@ScarletLaw wrote:The item for scent the McCanns tried to give the police first, the police immediately realised had smaller hairs and belonged to the twins. So they had to get something that was Madeleine's? I don't know much about the dogs yet, but I know if she was in the arms of someone the dogs wouldn't get much of a scent because they're off the ground.

'Smaller hairs and belonged to the twins'? Is this fact tucked away somewhere in the PJ's reports I've yet to explore, Scarlet?

Eddie and Keela alerted to items and places concerned with the McCanns - and importantly to no other items or places.

According to Eddie and Keela, the body of Madeleine McCann lay lifeless behind the sofa in Apartment 5a, clinging to the only thing from which she could derive any comfort; a soft toy called 'Cuddle cat'.

Kate's book 'madeleine', Page 219: "Did they really believe that a dog could smell the 'odour of death' three months later from a body that had been removed so swiftly?"

After forensic analysis of the 'Last Photo' there is little doubt now that the pool photo CANNOT POSSIBLY have been taken on the Thursday 3rd May, but most likely on the Sunday 29th April. So, where was Madeleine at lunchtime on Thursday?

John McCann:"This was terrible for them, Kate dressed Amelie in her sister's pyjamas and the baby said: "Maddy's jammies, where is Maddy?"Martin Roberts:"If Madeleine's pyjamas had not, in fact, been abducted then neither had Madeleine McCann."Dr Martin Roberts: A Nightwear Job

Death Toll in McCann Case

Gerry McCann called for an example to be made of 'trolls'. SKY reporter Martin Brunt doorstepped Brenda Leyland on 2 October 2014 after a 'Dossier' was handed in to Police by McCann supporters. She was then found dead in a Leicester hotel room the next day. Brenda paid the price.

Colin Sahlke died suddenly in mysterious circumstances with a significant amount of morphine in his system. At the Inquest the coroner said there was no evidence as to how he had come to take morphine, and no needle mark was found.Gerry McCann had met Sahlkebefore he helped with the search but did not show any concern for his death. Link

Ex-Met DCI Andy Redwood had a "revelation moment" on BBC1's Crimewatch on 14th October 2013 when he announced that Operation Grange had eliminated the Tanner sighting - which opened up the 'window' of opportunity' from 3 minutes to 45 minutes, in accordance with their remit, to allow the staged abduction to happen.

The 'SunOnline' journalist, Tracey Kandohla: "A McCann pal told The Sun Online: "Some of the savings have been siphoned off from the Find Maddie Fund into a fixed asset account, which financial experts have advised them to do. It can be used for purchases like buying a house, or building equipment."