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Re: Only a SAGE can be Jinchurriki of the Juubi !!!

Originally Posted by saw2097

This theory makes sense, the Sage had both the body and the eyes.

Nooo Rikudo Sennin was both the body and eyes because of his apparent Mastering of the Juubi energy which we now know is Nature Energy. So I am guessing that Naruto has a lot more to master with his Sage Mode.

Re: Only a SAGE can be Jinchurriki of the Juubi !!!

Originally Posted by meowNverse

It all sounds legit, but doesnt madara know the requirement to be a sage, to host the Juubi?
How does an edo jinchuriki work?

I'm definetally NOT saying that Madara doesnt know the requirements of becoming the Juubi Jinchurriki. I just think he's a F'ing liar. Think about it. Instead of starting the "ritual", Madara automatically wants to start fighting utilizing the Juubi Power. He may have been lying to Obito this whole time about Infinity Tsyconami (sorry mispell), he may have just wanted to have the power of the Juubi and Rule the REAL WORLD the whole time. Its time for a plot twist in the near future.....

Originally Posted by thegame

Madara and Obito are already controlling the Jubi, or perhaps absorbing its chakra, but since it's natural energy, I doubt that. So they already connected to it with some roots, so they must be in control of it.

But perhaps being its jinchuriki needs senjutsu..

Yes. Madara/ Obito are CONTROLLING the Juubi, but they are not the JINCHURRIKI. I think that you cannot store an infinite amount of chakra (Karuma said its unmeasurable) into your body unless you have ACCESS to an infinite amount of chakra yourself. Only a SAGE could do this.

Originally Posted by Horidora Taijutsu

Well nice theory but I have one question, if Naruto becomes juubi jinchuuriki where would kurama go, remember naruto and kurama have all the tailed beasts chakra accept for hachibi

Karuma would still be inside of him. ALL THE BIJUU would be inside of naruto. Their consciousness would still be inside of him, so Karuma could still talk to him. The Juubi has no mind of its own right now, its devoid of any consciousness. The the bijuu consciousness would still exist inside Naruto.

Originally Posted by apple pie of doom

People take shit far to literally.
You don't need to be a sage such as in sage mode.

Naruto won't become its host, more likely Madara will, IF it even gets sealed in the first place.

Ok.

If you dont need to be a Sage, Please explain something to me. How in the hell could any shinobi seal an INFINITE amount of chakra inside of his body?!? Why do you think only Uzumaki's were the Jinchurriki for the 9 Tails?!?

I believe that Madara can NEVER be the jinchurriki for the Juubi, and HE KNOWS THIS. He has been lying to Obito. He just wants INFINITE POWER, which he has while controlling the Juubi. He can control the juubi because he has the EYES and BODY, but he cannot be its JINCHURRIKI.

Re: Only a SAGE can be Jinchurriki of the Juubi !!!

You forget that Madara is an Edo Tensei, Ie infinite Chakra is supposedly at his command already. I don't think he would go daft over some psuedo hyperbeam attacks lol. When he has a fully realized Rinnegan with infinite chakra with which to use it.

Your idea about Sage mode is interesting, there is no true limit to how much chakra Naruto can siphon but there is a limit to how much he can balance with his own chakra without dieing. Lets say Naruto enters Sage mode upon the moment the Juubi is sealed with him, is it possible that using an out of control sage mode transformation he could potentially balance the foul chakra of the Juubi with his out Natual energies. That way you could seal the juubi without destroying the host. Naruto would be a conduit for nature in a way in essence he would be god-like just like the SO6P was said to be.

But for this to work he has to be able to do something that the toads have said is impossible gather Senjutsu continuously while moving for as long as it is sealed inside him. Either that or sit in one place forever lol. If this is possible then the SO6P probably new a great deal more about Senjutsu than Naruto so perhaps there is a way to gather Senjutsu while moving, naruto is just unaware of it, not to mention that conceptually Naruto is never still when entering SM, the planet is rotating and moving hence so is he moving. With this idea its not even the body of the sage thats needed you just have to know how to gather senjutsu, even badly, you just need to balance the chakras sure durability would help your body do this but I have a suspicion it isnt needed. How else did the SO6P become the Juubi's host if he got the body and the eyes from the Juubi?

This is probably what killed the original SO6P imagine the strain, no human mind could take that for more than a life time, even if he had the potential to live longer.

Re: Only a SAGE can be Jinchurriki of the Juubi !!!

The Death god couldn't seal all of Kurama's chakra so he only sealed half of it. He then sealed the other half in Naruto, using a very high quality seal as well, as said by Bee when Naruto told him what seal he had. He could have sealed all of it in Naruto but didn't, I don't know why, probably because Naruto was still a baby and wouldn't be able to control the chakra that leaked out.

Re: Only a SAGE can be Jinchurriki of the Juubi !!!

You guys are confusing Rinnegan+Senju DNA = Sage

Thats not what a Sage is, if you remember when Naruto was training at the Frog Mountain place that old geezer Frog told him that the Sage of Six Paths himself taught Senjutsu to the old frog/snake/(slug?) Sage's, this is why they are the "Great Sages" and the only ones who the So6P taught Senjutsu too

So6P didn't teach all Senjutsu to one animal Sage, he split it out to three. The Frog Sage, The White Snake Sage and we can assume, The Slug Sage. Those animals were originally summons So6P had contracts with, him teaching them Senjutsu shows that you don't need Rinnegan or Senju DNA to use/learn Senjutsu and become a Sage. Madara nor Obito were taught nor use Senjutsu, they have the So6P body and eyes but lack the technique of using Natural Chakra.

We now know the Juubi is equal to all the Natural Chakra on the planet. Naruto has been taught how to use Senjutsu by the Frog Sage's, and he is Uzumaki, giving him the "reserves" to be able to host immense amounts of chakra, Naruto will become the next So6P without the Rinnegan, probably with the help of Sasuke (Sasuke is changing back to good, lets face it, he had to redeem himself)

Re: Only a SAGE can be Jinchurriki of the Juubi !!!

Originally Posted by Rot

You guys are confusing Rinnegan+Senju DNA = Sage

Thats not what a Sage is, if you remember when Naruto was training at the Frog Mountain place that old geezer Frog told him that the Sage of Six Paths himself taught Senjutsu to the old frog/snake/(slug?) Sage's, this is why they are the "Great Sages" and the only ones who the So6P taught Senjutsu too

So6P didn't teach all Senjutsu to one animal Sage, he split it out to three. The Frog Sage, The White Snake Sage and we can assume, The Slug Sage. Those animals were originally summons So6P had contracts with, him teaching them Senjutsu shows that you don't need Rinnegan or Senju DNA to use/learn Senjutsu and become a Sage. Madara nor Obito were taught nor use Senjutsu, they have the So6P body and eyes but lack the technique of using Natural Chakra.

We now know the Juubi is equal to all the Natural Chakra on the planet. Naruto has been taught how to use Senjutsu by the Frog Sage's, and he is Uzumaki, giving him the "reserves" to be able to host immense amounts of chakra.

Re: Only a SAGE can be Jinchurriki of the Juubi !!!

Originally Posted by Rot

You guys are confusing Rinnegan+Senju DNA = Sage

Thats not what a Sage is, if you remember when Naruto was training at the Frog Mountain place that old geezer Frog told him that the Sage of Six Paths himself taught Senjutsu to the old frog/snake/(slug?) Sage's, this is why they are the "Great Sages" and the only ones who the So6P taught Senjutsu too

So6P didn't teach all Senjutsu to one animal Sage, he split it out to three. The Frog Sage, The White Snake Sage and we can assume, The Slug Sage. Those animals were originally summons So6P had contracts with, him teaching them Senjutsu shows that you don't need Rinnegan or Senju DNA to use/learn Senjutsu and become a Sage. Madara nor Obito were taught nor use Senjutsu, they have the So6P body and eyes but lack the technique of using Natural Chakra.

We now know the Juubi is equal to all the Natural Chakra on the planet. Naruto has been taught how to use Senjutsu by the Frog Sage's, and he is Uzumaki, giving him the "reserves" to be able to host immense amounts of chakra, Naruto will become the next So6P without the Rinnegan, probably with the help of Sasuke (Sasuke is changing back to good, lets face it, he had to redeem himself)

Could you please link the chapter and/or episode.
I would like to reread this.

Re: Only a SAGE can be Jinchurriki of the Juubi !!!

Look Madara aded Senju DNA to His Uchiha DNA to get the power of the Uzumaki to use the Kurama. Pure Senju and Uchiha do not have the ability of the Uzumaki.

The power of combining Senju and the Uchiha is NOT the power of the Uzumaki. That is the power of the Sage, because he is the FATHER of them both.

You need to combine the Senju and Uchiha in order to get a RINNEGAN. No Uzumaki has been born with the Rinnegan, Nagato needed Madara's eyes.

Originally Posted by Sexy Steel

madara and tobi meet the requirements because they both have the sages body and eyes, they can control it and become the host of the jubii

Yes and No.

They can both CONTROL the Juubi, because the have the DNA and EYES. But they cannot become the HOST, because they are not SAGES. The Juubi as an infinite amount of chakra. No human body could HOST this much power unless they had access to an unlimited supply of chakra as well. Sages are the only shinobi to meet this requirement.

Originally Posted by Naruto420

Goes both ways, just wait untill sasuke gets his powerups later, all sasuke fans will be running rampant.

Yes. Sasuke will most likely get a power-up during this trip with Orochimaru.

Re: Only a SAGE can be Jinchurriki of the Juubi !!!

Originally Posted by MilwaukeegHost

Yes. Madara/ Obito are CONTROLLING the Juubi, but they are not the JINCHURRIKI. I think that you cannot store an infinite amount of chakra (Karuma said its unmeasurable) into your body unless you have ACCESS to an infinite amount of chakra yourself. Only a SAGE could do this.

Yep only a sage could do this. However, there is still a lot of unanswered questions. Sage of 6 paths also had the rinnengan. Some say he got it with the Juubi, but that makes little sense to me, and thus it's safer to assume he had rinnengan from birth.

But Madara with rinnengan could summon the shell of the Juubi. So it might not only be connected to natural energy. But perhaps you need both to control or become jinchuriki of it. Meaning senju and uchiha.

But what if there is one last thing in the puzzle that Madara didn't know about? It is pretty clear now that to control such power, you need to be able to use natural energy. But perhaps Madara and Obito also got natural energy, and perhaps they trained at the 3rd place? What else could Obito have been doing for all these years. Anyway, I think we still need a lot of information to start making actual theories on this. I don't think Naruto in his current form can be jinchuriki of the Jubi.

Re: Only a SAGE can be Jinchurriki of the Juubi !!!

Hashirama is actually the only senju to come close to the body of the sage, the uzumaki are actually the more likely to have the body of the sage, and it makes the most sense cause of the naruto/sasuke rivalry and the fact that the uzumakis have the stamina and strength of body that is closest to the sage.

Re: Only a SAGE can be Jinchurriki of the Juubi !!!

Originally Posted by thegame

Yep only a sage could do this. However, there is still a lot of unanswered questions. Sage of 6 paths also had the rinnengan. Some say he got it with the Juubi, but that makes little sense to me, and thus it's safer to assume he had rinnengan from birth.

But Madara with rinnengan could summon the shell of the Juubi. So it might not only be connected to natural energy. But perhaps you need both to control or become jinchuriki of it. Meaning senju and uchiha.

But what if there is one last thing in the puzzle that Madara didn't know about? It is pretty clear now that to control such power, you need to be able to use natural energy. But perhaps Madara and Obito also got natural energy, and perhaps they trained at the 3rd place? What else could Obito have been doing for all these years. Anyway, I think we still need a lot of information to start making actual theories on this. I don't think Naruto in his current form can be jinchuriki of the Jubi.

To me it makes sense that Rikudo Sennin got his Rinnegan from the Juubi because of these reasons:

1. If he been had the Rinnegan he would have been able to control and understand chakra before he became a Jinchuriki. With the Rinnegan alone he would have had super high chakra reserves that would have created super powerful techniques. The only rift here is that he did not come up with the understanding of chakra & the understanding of Ninshu until after he became the Jinchuriki of the Juubi.

2. It would make sense for him to gain the Rinnegan after becoming the Jinchuriki of the Juubi based off how ALL of the Jinchurikis have ALL gained a unique power of their Bijuu; Gaara manipulates sand, Yugito breathes fire, Yagura materialises coral, Rōshi creates and manipulates lava, Utakata creates a corrosive alkali, Fū is capable of flight, Killer B produces ink, and Naruto has quick regeneration and can detect negative emotions. So it wouldn't be too far fetched for Rikudo Sennin ti gain the Rinnegan ability from a Bijuu who has God Like powers and users with the Rinnegan has God Like powers.

3. The Sharingan is a Demon ability which came from the Juubi, to the Older brother, and then watered down to his descendants. This is exactly why it is required for a user to have both the Eyes(Spiritual & Uchiha) and Body(Physical & Senju) in order to gain the Rinnegan all of the most powerful attributes of the Juubi. No human power back then would have produced such a great power over the generations such as the Uchiha and Senju without having such powerful chakra reserves, physical attributes(Powerful Yang Energy), spiritual energy(Powerful Yin Energy), and Nature Chakra to make the chakra immeasurable that could only come from the Juubi.

So now it is safe to say that Rikudo Sennin not only learned about chakra & gained the Rinnegan but also learned to become a Master of Nature Energy by not only becoming the first Jinchuriki but also the first Perfect Sage. With that kind of power(Rinnegan, chakra energy, and physical power) his already great power is multiplied by 10. So I think that Sage Mode has much much more power than we have seen so far. I also think that Sage Mode is meant to be fused with Bijuu Chakra why because all of the Bijuu were split from the Juubi who is made of Pure Nature Chakra. I just can't wait for the next chapter..

Re: Only a SAGE can be Jinchurriki of the Juubi !!!

Originally Posted by dhaoracle

To me it makes sense that Rikudo Sennin got his Rinnegan from the Juubi because of these reasons:

1. If he been had the Rinnegan he would have been able to control and understand chakra before he became a Jinchuriki. With the Rinnegan alone he would have had super high chakra reserves that would have created super powerful techniques. The only rift here is that he did not come up with the understanding of chakra & the understanding of Ninshu until after he became the Jinchuriki of the Juubi.

Where does it say that he didn't come up with the understanding of ninjutsu and chakra till after he became Jinchuriki? Cause I honestly don't believe that.

2. It would make sense for him to gain the Rinnegan after becoming the Jinchuriki of the Juubi based off how ALL of the Jinchurikis have ALL gained a unique power of their Bijuu; Gaara manipulates sand, Yugito breathes fire, Yagura materialises coral, Rōshi creates and manipulates lava, Utakata creates a corrosive alkali, Fū is capable of flight, Killer B produces ink, and Naruto has quick regeneration and can detect negative emotions. So it wouldn't be too far fetched for Rikudo Sennin ti gain the Rinnegan ability from a Bijuu who has God Like powers and users with the Rinnegan has God Like powers.

Hmm about this I don't think it is a valid argument, since it was the SO6P who created the 9 tailed beasts. So he must have given them the powers as well. The 10 tails is not comparable to these 9, since it consists of all of them. Perhaps SO6P had all these abilities as well, but other shinobi has been able to use some of the same abilities. I think the SO6P gave them these abilities, since it would make no sense if they belonged to the Juubi (ink for instance wouldn't make sense).

3. The Sharingan is a Demon ability which came from the Juubi, to the Older brother, and then watered down to his descendants. This is exactly why it is required for a user to have both the Eyes(Spiritual & Uchiha) and Body(Physical & Senju) in order to gain the Rinnegan all of the most powerful attributes of the Juubi. No human power back then would have produced such a great power over the generations such as the Uchiha and Senju without having such powerful chakra reserves, physical attributes(Powerful Yang Energy), spiritual energy(Powerful Yin Energy), and Nature Chakra to make the chakra immeasurable that could only come from the Juubi.

Again there is no evidence that sharingan came from the Juubi. The Juubis eye doesn't look that much alike it. The Juubi has 10 spots in the eye, which is more likely related to its number of tails. The circles in the eye does, however, resemble rinnegnan, I will give you that, but it is being controlled by rinnengan users in all these illustrations, though it's impossible to say, whether this is related or not. Nonetheless there isn't much evidence for this matter, in fact I find more against it than for it. We haven't seen any official coloring of the Juubi yet, but most draw it with a red eye, which of course is related to sharingan then, but still need some actual valid proof for it.

So now it is safe to say that Rikudo Sennin not only learned about chakra & gained the Rinnegan but also learned to become a Master of Nature Energy by not only becoming the first Jinchuriki but also the first Perfect Sage. With that kind of power(Rinnegan, chakra energy, and physical power) his already great power is multiplied by 10. So I think that Sage Mode has much much more power than we have seen so far. I also think that Sage Mode is meant to be fused with Bijuu Chakra why because all of the Bijuu were split from the Juubi who is made of Pure Nature Chakra. I just can't wait for the next chapter..

I am pretty sure it was said somewhere in the manga that he invented some sort of sealing technique to seal the Juubi inside himself. If he did this before learning all those things, it would make no sense, unless it will be explained in many details. Perhaps the Juubi accepted him, and wanted him to bring peace, but as for now it seems unrealistic that we will ever know. It is pretty evident that he must have mastered many of these tings before becoming jinchuriki of the Juubi, but I cannot disprove that he would need rinnengan to do it. Sage mode, grand ninjutsu and sealing techniques, all these could probably do it, but there is just no way that he got these from the juubi itself. Hence unless the juubi wanted to be sealed.

But why couldn't the sage himself be the product of 2 former war clans that had been the main clans in the past world. This product itself made a person with a unique chakra and unique eyes. We cannot look away from this possibility since a child with his origins from uchiha dad and senju mom hasn't been seen yet.

Look at this page. It specifies that he appeared to teach everyone the divine power of chakra and he didn't get freat power until after he became the Jinchuriki. I am not going to find all the pages for everything.

Hmm about this I don't think it is a valid argument, since it was the SO6P who created the 9 tailed beasts. So he must have given them the powers as well. The 10 tails is not comparable to these 9, since it consists of all of them. Perhaps SO6P had all these abilities as well, but other shinobi has been able to use some of the same abilities. I think the SO6P gave them these abilities, since it would make no sense if they belonged to the Juubi (ink for instance wouldn't make sense).

It is said in the Manga that the powers of the Bijuus are not just the power of the Juubi but also that all of the powers were of the Juubi as well. The Juubi was comprised of Pure Natural Energy which can be made into basically everything with the power of Creation of All Things. Who knows really me or you can be right because it has been said int he manga that they are not just split chakra but also the powers are split from the Juubi as well. You can also be right because of the forms that Rikudo Sennin made them to be. So why would he only give Kurama sensing of Negative energy and healing?

Again there is no evidence that sharingan came from the Juubi. The Juubis eye doesn't look that much alike it. The Juubi has 10 spots in the eye, which is more likely related to its number of tails. The circles in the eye does, however, resemble rinnegnan, I will give you that, but it is being controlled by rinnengan users in all these illustrations, though it's impossible to say, whether this is related or not. Nonetheless there isn't much evidence for this matter, in fact I find more against it than for it. We haven't seen any official coloring of the Juubi yet, but most draw it with a red eye, which of course is related to sharingan then, but still need some actual valid proof for it.

I am sorry but you cannot deny that when the Juubi himself has both the Rinnegan and Sharingan eyes mixed. Plus you need both the Sharingan and Senju DNA just to get the Rinnegan which the Juubi obviously have. Unless you are telling me that the Juubi is the summon of Rikudo Sennin. Which in my eyes would not make him the saviour of the world but someone who was trying to clean up his mess. Also if he had such great power before the Juubi woulnd't he have had the power to stop the War way before he defeated the Juubi without needing the Juubi's power??

Here is the Manga where you can obviously see the eyes used to use Creation of All Things which just so happen to be the same eyes of the Juubi. Is that coincidence?? I think not.

I am pretty sure it was said somewhere in the manga that he invented some sort of sealing technique to seal the Juubi inside himself. If he did this before learning all those things, it would make no sense, unless it will be explained in many details. Perhaps the Juubi accepted him, and wanted him to bring peace, but as for now it seems unrealistic that we will ever know. It is pretty evident that he must have mastered many of these tings before becoming jinchuriki of the Juubi, but I cannot disprove that he would need rinnengan to do it. Sage mode, grand ninjutsu and sealing techniques, all these could probably do it, but there is just no way that he got these from the juubi itself. Hence unless the juubi wanted to be sealed.

But why couldn't the sage himself be the product of 2 former war clans that had been the main clans in the past world. This product itself made a person with a unique chakra and unique eyes. We cannot look away from this possibility since a child with his origins from uchiha dad and senju mom hasn't been seen yet.

Here is that page that you were looking for and a powerful technique to seal anything is called Fuinjutsu. We can get an idea of the technique used on the Juubi from the same sealing technique that Naruto used on Kurama. Kurama himself thought that it was Rikudo Sennin.

It says right here that they were not led down the right path when they were in him so the Juubi did not just agree to go inside him to create peace especially when he was a blob of hatred and negative energy.

How would he have Ninjutsu to defeat the Juubi if he created Ninshu which became Ninjutsu after he defeated the Juubi. He defeated the Juubi to protect the world then he went around the world spreading his religion Ninshu, to stop the wars, which became Ninjutsu. I believe that he was a Master Fuinjutsu and Sage Mode, all which used in the most efffective ways can defeat a lot of anything especially when the Juubi is made of Pure Natural Energy. Maybe he manipulated the Juubi's energy somehow by being a Master of Natural Energy somehow. The powers of Nature energy go much farther than just enhancing your physical abilities but also give advanced users the ability to see in the future like how the Great Toad Sage does.

As far as your question as to why no one including the Sage couldn't be a product alone be the product of both the Uchiha and Senju is that all the attributes of both Clans are definitely inherent of the Juubi eyes and all. You can't believe that Rikudo Sennin who housed basically all the energy of the world inside of himself couldn't gain power of Great Eyes and Great Body to pass it on to his sons without still being great because it isn't all of his power??

Come to think about it I think that there is some kind of connection to the Senju and Senjutsu Mode that Naruto uses. Why? Because just like all of Naruto's abilities are just enhanced the same happens for a Senju. Maybe the Body that everyone is talking about is a product of the Nature Energy that the Juubi was made of. So it would stand that the younger brother got very powerful Nature Energy infused within himself naturally and the elder brother got the eyes and chakra. Senjutsu energy would definitely make a clan like the Senju naturally stronger than any other clans just like how Senjutsu Energy enhances all of Naruto's Abilities. That would also explain why Hashirama has the ability to use a powerful version of Moukouton(Just like how Kabuto used his ability from Jugo's Clan to move the earth) while also able to heal without hand signs(Just how Kurama heals Naruto by being only Yang Energy-Physical Energy-Body). WOW!!!! It would also explain why when anyone gets Hashirama's cells that their power is automatically boosted 10 fold just like how Sage Mode does to Naruto. IDK I think that it makes sense and is very much connected which would also explain why it is so much easier for Hashirama and anyone with his cells are able to control the chakra of a Bijuu so easily.