Simple:DHL Express Courier: Which I believe is DHL Courier all the way. DHL handling everything and the 'Companies' who supported the Kickstarter and claim the VAT portion backDHL eCommerce: Which I believe is final delivery by local post. Supporters know how their local post offices handle taxes and can choose if advantageous to DHL delivery.

Messy:3rd Party: If going ahead this needs to be a clean single option. They will not want to be issuing zero rated invoices to companies etc, and you collecting the VAT is on dodgy legal grounds.DHL China: If this is DHL all the way from China it is no different to option 1 above, except they do not take the invoice on face value and will inspect the parcel, and may revise upwards. I have had this happen several times now. In one case I kicked up a fuss and ended up getting all the VAT back, even though they said they were refunding just the over charge.

In all cases, a proper clearly itemised (Item and P&P shown separately) invoice should be available on the outside of the package.

I am contemplating giving people the option in the Kickstarter survey whether they want to pay the extra 19% VAT and get it quickly no hassles, or pay nothing extra up-front and "take their chances" via direct shipment into the EU. Opinions on this please...

Dave, will my KS pledge be updated automatically (+19% for VAT in EU) by the survey you've sent, or will I have to do that manually?

A big German test gear seller has offer to the re-shipping for me inside the EU.They offer good internal postage rates, but there is no way to avoid the 19% German VAT, regardless of whether the meter is ultimately shipped within Germany outside of it.

There is......but not for the general public though.If I (am in UK) buy a gadget from VAT registered company in Germany and use my own UK VAT registered company to pay for it then the VAT should be zero rated, i.e. no VAT.I do this when selling my PDVS2 voltage sources within the EU.All the different options of VAT, no VAT etc etc.........it's a pain to set up an online shop that can handle it all seamlessly!

[There is......but not for the general public though.If I (am in UK) buy a gadget from VAT registered company in Germany and use my own UK VAT registered company to pay for it then the VAT should be zero rated, i.e. no VAT.I do this when selling my PDVS2 voltage sources within the EU.All the different options of VAT, no VAT etc etc.........it's a pain to set up an online shop that can handle it all seamlessly!

Maybe you're talking about other regulations, but typically you always charge VAT. In the case of business to business, you charge it, but the other can reclaim that VAT. Sooner or later it all ends up at a consumer and he will have to pay the VAT without reclaiming it. There are certain industries that are exempt from VAT, but those are fairly specific.

Unless you're part of the exceptions, not charging the end consumer VAT isn't really possible. Obviously, as everyone would love to sell a product that's roughly a fifth cheaper without any effort!

[There is......but not for the general public though.If I (am in UK) buy a gadget from VAT registered company in Germany and use my own UK VAT registered company to pay for it then the VAT should be zero rated, i.e. no VAT.I do this when selling my PDVS2 voltage sources within the EU.All the different options of VAT, no VAT etc etc.........it's a pain to set up an online shop that can handle it all seamlessly!

Then...Business does a large amount of selling into another EU country.Business exceeds VAT Threshold for this Country. e.g. €80,000 per year.Business must register for VAT in 3rd party country and collect VAT at local rates for local VAT Man.

This is why the mega online stores like Amazon UK, Thomann and Komplett charge your local VAT on checkout

wtf monkey?!? I tried to vote but they took long time to load the page. Not sure if my vote was accepted. There is DoS or something going on...

Paying VAT upfront is way better even you pay 1-2% more. This way you avoid delay in customs and possible payment delays/mistakes. When I ordered my Hakko I wrote the "reason code" in my payment and they didn't want to release it. I had following options:1. go there (30 km - the other side of the city - about 3 hours) and submit a request for the payment details to be fixed2. pay double to DHL to do that for me3. pay the VAT again

Well I paid the VAT again. And the process took more than a week. DHL + customs = evil.

Well the campaign is ending. I wonder if it'll be possible to pay the vat after it's done - like paypal or something. I really don't want to mess with the DHL+ customs combo again. I've dealt fine with each one of them alone, but when you combine them it gets ugly.

I am contemplating giving people the option in the Kickstarter survey whether they want to pay the extra 19% VAT and get it quickly no hassles, or pay nothing extra up-front and "take their chances" via direct shipment into the EU. Opinions on this please...

I'd pay it up front because:a) If it gets caught in the customs system you can face big delays, maybe a week extra if you're unlucky.b) Couriers will charge you a ridiculous "handling fee" for doing the customs 'paperwork' for you (can be as much as the tax even though these days they probably just scan a barcode and type in a price).c) I wouldn't have to pay VAT on the shipping costs.

I am contemplating giving people the option in the Kickstarter survey whether they want to pay the extra 19% VAT and get it quickly no hassles, or pay nothing extra up-front and "take their chances" via direct shipment into the EU. Opinions on this please...

I'd pay it up front because:a) If it gets caught in the customs system you can face big delays, maybe a week extra if you're unlucky.b) Couriers will charge you a ridiculous "handling fee" for doing the customs 'paperwork' for you (can be as much as the tax even though these days they probably just scan a barcode and type in a price).c) I wouldn't have to pay VAT on the shipping costs.

In Greece if your packet goes through custom check, it could be easily a month before the packet is actually checked taxed and released.

A courier service can speed up things but the fees are ridiculous high.

You could run the process by your self but could easily loose a day or two to the custom office.

Kickstarter is not a sales platform in itself, they actually do not sell goods, therefore it is not like a shop with all the tax and shipment options. All you got from their side is backing projects.

In a former kickstarter campaign it was mentioned that you could pledge the double amount of money and the project management needs to sort out what you actually pledged for and hopefully sends the right amount. Which might be a pita when certain shipping weights are exceeded. OTOH it was mentioned that is it up for sales in the eevblog shop after the kickstarter is over.

Kickstarter is not a sales platform in itself, they actually do not sell goods, therefore it is not like a shop with all the tax and shipment options.

I know this, also Dave mentioned it - can't remember where (video, the Ah) that he might look on the amount to figure out how many, but is not a certitude, just a possibility. I just wanted a confirmation

A bit confused now - so I'm in EU, I will pay in 5 hours 265 AU for the meter and 30 AU in shipment, but now there is a German reseller, re shipper whatever involved, which I will be charged 19% extra VAT.

So 30 AU are now for what ? I guess meters wont be shipped separately to German company and then to a me ? Or will they be ?

As I understand a process all meters for kickstarter backers are send first to Dave, for a hologram sticker, pouch etc… then what will happen ? Will each one be shipped separately to Germany, where it will be reshipped to me ?

I think 19% is a good deal, if there is the opportunity to do it this way, I'm definitely in.

From past experiences, more than I would like, the chances that a high value package goes unnoticed through DHL or UPS is zero. I suppose these companies declare in advance the value of the packages to customs. If you go through China Post, USPS or something cheaper you might get lucky.

When they stop the package in customs there is a charge due to VAT (21% in Spain so right there I'm already saving a bit) but also there is a customs fee. But if the customs documentation is handled directly by DHL they charge you their own fee in top of that, last time I think it was a bit more than 20€.

By the way, I don't know if it has already been said, but the amount of the VAT is calculated including shipping cost... not only the price of the product

If you have received something more expensive than 20 EUR from foreign country (China doesn't count - they lie about the price) you would know that you have to pay VAT no matter what. However paying VAT to customs after the package enters the country is slow and painful process. That's why Dave wants to use someone from the EU to re-ship the multimeters. This way you pay the VAT to Dave, he pays to the German company and they pay to their government. That's the only thing - the VAT goes to germany instead of your country. But there are no customs delays and probably few trips to the bank, customs and other annoying activities.

A big German test gear seller has offer to the re-shipping for me inside the EU.They offer good internal postage rates, but there is no way to avoid the 19% German VAT, regardless of whether the meter is ultimately shipped within Germany outside of it.[...]The advantage is that there should be zero customs hassles to the backer because it would be shipped internal in the EU via DHL.

I am contemplating giving people the option in the Kickstarter survey whether they want to pay the extra 19% VAT and get it quickly no hassles, or pay nothing extra up-front and "take their chances" via direct shipment into the EU. Opinions on this please...

I can only speak für germany but I think all other countries will be less complicated ;-). Sending goods from outside germany to germany you need to clearly declare what is sent. With real product and postage costs. Marking as gift will most likely lead to make the german customs define the value of a product by their suggestion what in the end most time is a very expensive deal for the recipient. E.g. the customs says ok the EEVblog 121GW is similar to a Fluke xyz, so we calculate with a product price of 500 EUR because the declaration on the parcel was not ok ;-).

Less than 26,- EUR total costs (product INCLUDING postage). No VAT no other fees to pay.

Less than 150,- EUR (232,- AUD) total costs (product INCLUDING postage), you ONLY have to pay german VAT of 19% (of the product price without postage costs) and a DHL fee.

The DHL fee is a fee you have to pay to DHL because they pre-pay the VAT for you. Haha. You can make a contract with DHL to allow then to directly charge the VAT from your bank account, then you won't have to pay this 12,50 EUR DHL fee. Going the way directly from Dave through the customs to us may take a week or max 2 extra weeks.

Getting the meter through a reseller in germany may make things easier and faster. But a reseller wants to get payed for his work. My experience with resellers most time is that in the end you pay more. 19% VAT and a much higher product price.

You may contact postNL for exact information. As far as I understand it's not 100% ok what postNL is doing (who cares?). Because inside the EU there is no extra fee for the customer and so this could be a way to get around the VAT for all european citizens and postNL makes bulk import to the EU. But there is no exact information on their website if the recipient really does not pay VAT, you may check this with them.

If you have received something more expensive than 20 EUR from foreign country (China doesn't count - they lie about the price) you would know that you have to pay VAT no matter what. However paying VAT to customs after the package enters the country is slow and painful process. That's why Dave wants to use someone from the EU to re-ship the multimeters. This way you pay the VAT to Dave, he pays to the German company and they pay to their government. That's the only thing - the VAT goes to germany instead of your country. But there are no customs delays and probably few trips to the bank, customs and other annoying activities.

What's stopping me form ordering is mostly DHLTheir clearance service fee is around 40eur. Although customs clearance for private customers (B2P) goes simpler than for companies DHL charges it the same. Others charge 3-5eur for these fees, but around the same amount as DHL for a full customs clearance procedure (B2B).

So a 200EUR meter would end up: +20% VAT+10% Customs+40eur DHL = 300eurSeems better to wait for a reseller within Europe, even though meter will be more expensive later.

A plus is that U(S)PS/FedEx have surprised me a few times with no customs procedure.

Dave just a FYI I just completed my Kickstarter survey (backer 50 Whoo!) and the EU VAT Paypal email address is a required field.I'm an Aussie so based on the question instructions it seems like it should have been left blank.