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When I talk about Crafting focused or Crafting Centric I am not talking about building like Minecraft But having little to no loot drops and instead all Armor and Weapons being crafted.

My biggest reason is I fail to see the incentive to actually hunting and exploring, let alone tackling tough boss mob types. I come from an Asheron's Call MMO background where Loot played a major role in the longevity of the game and to this day I fail to see how Crafting can be as rewarding as finding that 1 in a million rare drop. Now I am not talking about doing instance raids, as I hate that style of loot acquisition but instead I prefer a more Diablo/ARPG style approach to acquiring gear, through random drops and luck of the draw.

I've never played a Crafting Centric sandbox where gear is predominantly attained via crafting but I fail to see the appeal in it, and it is a prime concern for me when discussing EQN. Why would I go out hunting, exploring and grinding mobs when I know theres little value in doing so......This is also a primary reason for me quitting games like GW2 and now Neverwinter. Both Crafting Centric and Raid/Party Specific styles of MMO are on opposite ends of the spectrum, where both styles either remove the option or require a group. If this makes any sense let me just explain it like this. We are not grouped 24/7 in an MMO in fact my time spent in a group is on the order of 5%. What this means is that 95% of my time is spent by myself solo, when this happens I want to do what I enjoy....things like explore and hunting but when I know my time is spent wasted because I will never acquire anything useful I get bored rather quick. Does this make sense? Its hard to describe but I decided to quit Neverwinter because my enjoyment has waned even though I enjoyed the combat and the Foundry but there was something missing and it took me a few days to figure it out. It all boils down to not being properly rewarded for doing what I enjoy and to me the best way to reward me is through random loot drops. It's what I enjoyed so much about Asheron's Call, it kept me playing for longer then any MMO because I never knew what I would get.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

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Originally posted by azzamasinWhen I talk about Crafting focused or Crafting Centric I am not talking about building like Minecraft But having little to no loot drops and instead all Armor and Weapons being crafted.

My biggest reason is I fail to see the incentive to actually hunting and exploring, let alone tackling tough boss mob types. I come from an Asheron's Call MMO background where Loot played a major role in the longevity of the game and to this day I fail to see how Crafting can be as rewarding as finding that 1 in a million rare drop. Now I am not talking about doing instance raids, as I hate that style of loot acquisition but instead I prefer a more Diablo/ARPG style approach to acquiring gear, through random drops and luck of the draw.

I've never played a Crafting Centric sandbox where gear is predominantly attained via crafting but I fail to see the appeal in it, and it is a prime concern for me when discussing EQN. Why would I go out hunting, exploring and grinding mobs when I know theres little value in doing so......This is also a primary reason for me quitting games like GW2 and now Neverwinter. Both Crafting Centric and Raid/Party Specific styles of MMO are on opposite ends of the spectrum, where both styles either remove the option or require a group. If this makes any sense let me just explain it like this. We are not grouped 24/7 in an MMO in fact my time spent in a group is on the order of 5%. What this means is that 95% of my time is spent by myself solo, when this happens I want to do what I enjoy....things like explore and hunting but when I know my time is spent wasted because I will never acquire anything useful I get bored rather quick. Does this make sense? Its hard to describe but I decided to quit Neverwinter because my enjoyment has waned even though I enjoyed the combat and the Foundry but there was something missing and it took me a few days to figure it out. It all boils down to not being properly rewarded for doing what I enjoy and to me the best way to reward me is through random loot drops. It's what I enjoyed so much about Asheron's Call, it kept me playing for longer then any MMO because I never knew what I would get.

all those lame ass kill x of y quests are replaced by an actual demand for x of y within a real context between actual players.

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Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...

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Originally posted by Foomerang

Originally posted by azzamasinWhen I talk about Crafting focused or Crafting Centric I am not talking about building like Minecraft But having little to no loot drops and instead all Armor and Weapons being crafted.

My biggest reason is I fail to see the incentive to actually hunting and exploring, let alone tackling tough boss mob types. I come from an Asheron's Call MMO background where Loot played a major role in the longevity of the game and to this day I fail to see how Crafting can be as rewarding as finding that 1 in a million rare drop. Now I am not talking about doing instance raids, as I hate that style of loot acquisition but instead I prefer a more Diablo/ARPG style approach to acquiring gear, through random drops and luck of the draw.

I've never played a Crafting Centric sandbox where gear is predominantly attained via crafting but I fail to see the appeal in it, and it is a prime concern for me when discussing EQN. Why would I go out hunting, exploring and grinding mobs when I know theres little value in doing so......This is also a primary reason for me quitting games like GW2 and now Neverwinter. Both Crafting Centric and Raid/Party Specific styles of MMO are on opposite ends of the spectrum, where both styles either remove the option or require a group. If this makes any sense let me just explain it like this. We are not grouped 24/7 in an MMO in fact my time spent in a group is on the order of 5%. What this means is that 95% of my time is spent by myself solo, when this happens I want to do what I enjoy....things like explore and hunting but when I know my time is spent wasted because I will never acquire anything useful I get bored rather quick. Does this make sense? Its hard to describe but I decided to quit Neverwinter because my enjoyment has waned even though I enjoyed the combat and the Foundry but there was something missing and it took me a few days to figure it out. It all boils down to not being properly rewarded for doing what I enjoy and to me the best way to reward me is through random loot drops. It's what I enjoyed so much about Asheron's Call, it kept me playing for longer then any MMO because I never knew what I would get.

all those lame ass kill x of y quests are replaced by an actual demand for x of y within a real context between actual players.

So your incentive is to provide materials for crafters? As a noob to this game style, it doesn't appeal to me at all sorry.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

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I fail to see the point of running the same dungeon over and over again in the hopes that the pants you need to finish your set finally drop.

EVE is a PVP/Crafting centric game which has a relatively stable economy.

Agreed. I guess it's a personal preference thing. Running the same dungeon over and over for a chance at possibly getting rare drops that I need in order to repeat the cycle at a higher level dungeon just doesn't appeal to me. However, the crafting/tinkering systems of UO, AC and EVE are systems that have entertained me for hundreds and hundreds of hours.

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

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When I talk about Crafting focused or Crafting Centric I am not talking about building like Minecraft But having little to no loot drops and instead all Armor and Weapons being crafted.

My biggest reason is I fail to see the incentive to actually hunting and exploring, let alone tackling tough boss mob types.

I see you never played SWG, just about everything was player created, yet a fully crafting focused character had no way to hunt for things like Krayt scales which were required to make top end equipment. Hence where community oriented design came into play, a combat player gathered these things and sold or traded them to a crafter, giving that combat oriented character plenty of reasons to hunt harder mobs.

On top of that exploring uncovered far more valuable resources. Which a crafter could place equipment that collected said resource.

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The posts above capture my feelings on the subject: the aethetic of a creative act, the alternative questing mechnic and the economy as a dynamic system in the world (or even as a micro-economy between alts).

The problem with the 1-in-a-million drop is that there's always a danger you'll get it.

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Originally posted by azzamasin

Originally posted by Foomerang

Originally posted by azzamasinWhen I talk about Crafting focused or Crafting Centric I am not talking about building like Minecraft But having little to no loot drops and instead all Armor and Weapons being crafted. My biggest reason is I fail to see the incentive to actually hunting and exploring, let alone tackling tough boss mob types. I come from an Asheron's Call MMO background where Loot played a major role in the longevity of the game and to this day I fail to see how Crafting can be as rewarding as finding that 1 in a million rare drop. Now I am not talking about doing instance raids, as I hate that style of loot acquisition but instead I prefer a more Diablo/ARPG style approach to acquiring gear, through random drops and luck of the draw. I've never played a Crafting Centric sandbox where gear is predominantly attained via crafting but I fail to see the appeal in it, and it is a prime concern for me when discussing EQN. Why would I go out hunting, exploring and grinding mobs when I know theres little value in doing so......This is also a primary reason for me quitting games like GW2 and now Neverwinter. Both Crafting Centric and Raid/Party Specific styles of MMO are on opposite ends of the spectrum, where both styles either remove the option or require a group. If this makes any sense let me just explain it like this. We are not grouped 24/7 in an MMO in fact my time spent in a group is on the order of 5%. What this means is that 95% of my time is spent by myself solo, when this happens I want to do what I enjoy....things like explore and hunting but when I know my time is spent wasted because I will never acquire anything useful I get bored rather quick. Does this make sense? Its hard to describe but I decided to quit Neverwinter because my enjoyment has waned even though I enjoyed the combat and the Foundry but there was something missing and it took me a few days to figure it out. It all boils down to not being properly rewarded for doing what I enjoy and to me the best way to reward me is through random loot drops. It's what I enjoyed so much about Asheron's Call, it kept me playing for longer then any MMO because I never knew what I would get.

all those lame ass kill x of y quests are replaced by an actual demand for x of y within a real context between actual players.

So your incentive is to provide materials for crafters? As a noob to this game style, it doesn't appeal to me at all sorry.

What does appeal to you then? Because I can guarantee there is a way to incorporate what you like about mmos into a crafting focused experience.

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Originally posted by azzamasin

I've never played a Crafting Centric sandbox where gear is predominantly attained via crafting but I fail to see the appeal in it, and it is a prime concern for me when discussing EQN. Why would I go out hunting, exploring and grinding mobs when I know theres little value in doing so......

This isn't entirely true. Crafting blueprints and components could be acquired as loot or be in dangerous areas. For example, ectoplasm in GW2 comes from rare/exotic items that you get from bosses and dungeons. You can also get jewelry blueprints as random drops in specific dungeons, letting you cash in on dungeon tokens better than usually. Admittedly GW2 is a bad example, because its world bosses suck are are way too easy, but I'm just using it because of its popularity.

So, you wouldn't visit a dangerous area to kill Supermooks that drop Superweapons, but would visit it to mine Superore that's used to craft those Superweapons.

Originally posted by Foomerangall those lame ass kill x of y quests are replaced by an actual demand for x of y within a real context between actual players.

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Ignoring your preference for the game in which is given as example in this clip, I think it illustrates pretty well the difference between crafted gear vs dropped gear and what feeling may each give to the player.

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My self...I love a game with a great crafting system(there isn't many of those).

I love to differentiate myself from many of the players by giving myself skills others don't have.I have special items others might not have and it can be a great way to make money and all that money brings.

My ideal game has great pve ...great faction conflict...great crafting and ideally great housing.

That unfortunately paints me into a pretty small corner of game choices.

Currently i'm making do with Aion.....until my next real choice comes along.

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Many of the great crafting mmos gave the hunter an incentive by dropping a rare crafting mat from the boss that you would then take to a crafter to have your item forged. Finding the right crafter with the best skills and quality of mats to go with it was also part of the experience. The rare item would then give it better stats that you could never get with just norm mats.

Crafting games are often more about an economy instead of loot or progression. Exploration and searching out rare items to bring back and sell to someone ect ect. They always involve item decay or they become very stagnant. The best ones don't have set locations for these rare mats so it becomes more about searching out these things than farming a single location.

They really aren't the type of game that a wow player would be interested in...and I don't mean that as an insult. They're just the total opposite of each other in the spectrum of gaming.

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well i will look away from the facts that there are people who like crafting more then combat (e.g. me), because thats not really what are you talking about.

full crafting w/o eq drops is usually done through mobs dropping crafting components, stronger the mob rarer the component, and people who like combat simply fight for those and then trade them to crafters for eq.

edit: hehe, went afk with thread open and before i came back and wrote my comment, others had already written it :)

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Originally posted by Foomerang

Originally posted by azzamasin

Originally posted by Foomerang

Originally posted by azzamasinWhen I talk about Crafting focused or Crafting Centric I am not talking about building like Minecraft But having little to no loot drops and instead all Armor and Weapons being crafted. My biggest reason is I fail to see the incentive to actually hunting and exploring, let alone tackling tough boss mob types. I come from an Asheron's Call MMO background where Loot played a major role in the longevity of the game and to this day I fail to see how Crafting can be as rewarding as finding that 1 in a million rare drop. Now I am not talking about doing instance raids, as I hate that style of loot acquisition but instead I prefer a more Diablo/ARPG style approach to acquiring gear, through random drops and luck of the draw. I've never played a Crafting Centric sandbox where gear is predominantly attained via crafting but I fail to see the appeal in it, and it is a prime concern for me when discussing EQN. Why would I go out hunting, exploring and grinding mobs when I know theres little value in doing so......This is also a primary reason for me quitting games like GW2 and now Neverwinter. Both Crafting Centric and Raid/Party Specific styles of MMO are on opposite ends of the spectrum, where both styles either remove the option or require a group. If this makes any sense let me just explain it like this. We are not grouped 24/7 in an MMO in fact my time spent in a group is on the order of 5%. What this means is that 95% of my time is spent by myself solo, when this happens I want to do what I enjoy....things like explore and hunting but when I know my time is spent wasted because I will never acquire anything useful I get bored rather quick. Does this make sense? Its hard to describe but I decided to quit Neverwinter because my enjoyment has waned even though I enjoyed the combat and the Foundry but there was something missing and it took me a few days to figure it out. It all boils down to not being properly rewarded for doing what I enjoy and to me the best way to reward me is through random loot drops. It's what I enjoyed so much about Asheron's Call, it kept me playing for longer then any MMO because I never knew what I would get.

all those lame ass kill x of y quests are replaced by an actual demand for x of y within a real context between actual players.

So your incentive is to provide materials for crafters? As a noob to this game style, it doesn't appeal to me at all sorry.

What does appeal to you then? Because I can guarantee there is a way to incorporate what you like about mmos into a crafting focused experience.

It's the loot that matters (seemingly) to him.

Yet, he should know, SWG filled the other end of the spectrum as well (phat lootz) yet it didn't cancel out crafted gear. As Phat lootz typically had bad base damage and/or weak condition, they were used for DOT effects and just that. They were switched in and out for main crafted weapons. Think of them as an all important sidearm (all this directed at Azz not Foom, Foom already knows this :)).

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

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Originally posted by azzamasin

Originally posted by Foomerang

Originally posted by azzamasinWhen I talk about Crafting focused or Crafting Centric I am not talking about building like Minecraft But having little to no loot drops and instead all Armor and Weapons being crafted.

My biggest reason is I fail to see the incentive to actually hunting and exploring, let alone tackling tough boss mob types. I come from an Asheron's Call MMO background where Loot played a major role in the longevity of the game and to this day I fail to see how Crafting can be as rewarding as finding that 1 in a million rare drop. Now I am not talking about doing instance raids, as I hate that style of loot acquisition but instead I prefer a more Diablo/ARPG style approach to acquiring gear, through random drops and luck of the draw.

I've never played a Crafting Centric sandbox where gear is predominantly attained via crafting but I fail to see the appeal in it, and it is a prime concern for me when discussing EQN. Why would I go out hunting, exploring and grinding mobs when I know theres little value in doing so......This is also a primary reason for me quitting games like GW2 and now Neverwinter. Both Crafting Centric and Raid/Party Specific styles of MMO are on opposite ends of the spectrum, where both styles either remove the option or require a group. If this makes any sense let me just explain it like this. We are not grouped 24/7 in an MMO in fact my time spent in a group is on the order of 5%. What this means is that 95% of my time is spent by myself solo, when this happens I want to do what I enjoy....things like explore and hunting but when I know my time is spent wasted because I will never acquire anything useful I get bored rather quick. Does this make sense? Its hard to describe but I decided to quit Neverwinter because my enjoyment has waned even though I enjoyed the combat and the Foundry but there was something missing and it took me a few days to figure it out. It all boils down to not being properly rewarded for doing what I enjoy and to me the best way to reward me is through random loot drops. It's what I enjoyed so much about Asheron's Call, it kept me playing for longer then any MMO because I never knew what I would get.

all those lame ass kill x of y quests are replaced by an actual demand for x of y within a real context between actual players.

So your incentive is to provide materials for crafters? As a noob to this game style, it doesn't appeal to me at all sorry.

In Star Wars Galaxies, I was still a sniper and hunted like anyone else, except on the side I ran some power generators out in the middle of nowhere. In which case, I'd take those power cells, go to the market, and sell them to those who needed power cells for their harvesting machines. While that may not sound fun, it gave me something more to do than just hunt. I went out for the day, did my missions, then headed over to my power cells on my way home, grabbed them, and went back to play the market and make sure my power cells made it into farmers' hands. And consider architects in that game. I remember price hunting for the best architect to build our guild hall. It cost a ton, but we wanted to find someone we could trust, and had a decent price and reputation. It was a blast. So WHAT did this all do? Well, it added DEPTH to a game that could have just been "kill, combat, kill." MMOs need depth like that to thrive. The point of an MMO is to immerse the player in a living world. A combat treadmill doesn't do that.

Utlima Online... I didn't have a crafter. To make money, though, I'd often hunt and skin dragons for their valuable leather. It was dangerous work. If I accidentally pulled too many or misjudged I'd die and drop all the bounty. But the leather sold for good money at my vendor in town. Eventually, once that vendor stays fully stocked, leather workers will begin relying on it to carry exactly what they need. That gives a big edge in the market, because those crafters didn't want to have to shop around if they already have a reliable place to stop.

But Ultima gets better than all that. What if you want to hunt for those epic loot drops that you talk about? Go raid, then, ol' chap! Getting with a group of others, we'd venture to raid Dark Father, and go after a chance of getting one of his rare weapons or armor he drops. Again, dangerous and exciting work.

CONCLUSION: See what this did? It gave me extra depth. I knew my work as a Paladin wasn't just feeding the cog of an artificial economy. Crafting MMOs allow the hunter to have a real impact in the world. My price cutting for power cells in Star Wars caused all other prices of power cells to drop in competition. In Ultima, I wasn't just pulling garbage off of a mob in hopes of getting a rare drop, I was actually doing something dangerous and exciting and using it to make a profit off of dragon's leather. I was actually part of the world, and I didn't have to do an ounce of crafting. So do you see why crafting MMOs make it better for us hunters? It gives us as much immersion as it gives the crafters in the game. It makes it a real virtual world.