I do not believe in the plans for a systematic annihilation of the Jewish race to be anything more then carefully , and internatioally constructed propaganda to keep the Reich from re rising.
One is because if it was a complete genetic cleansing of Jewish eugenics from Europe ( and somehow the whole planet if the propagandist want to go that far ) then every single Jew would have been killed , but that's not the case . Most of the german Jews got to leave before the war , and many served . Also partial Jews were able to marry Germans , that makes absolutely no sense it's actually kind of funny to me . But I still believe to much of evidence of these figures is not to be seen , nor have I found any reasonable economical point in spending all these recourses in wiping them all out . It is my view that many were persecuted, many killed , but not even close to the extent they press us in mainstream controlled institutions. I don't believe the Jews run the world , I believe the leaders that were once behind the Abrahamic church either Ancient ( if somehow still alive of the , the same entities that's caused the fall of Rome ) , through rejuvenation or any other methods or through secrecy of descendents , I agree fully with hitler that those religions need to go and if he won Im sure all the Abrahamic religions would have gone including Christianity/ Islam etc . Not sure he'd start gassing Christian Germans next lolol

With respect of the Jewish Question, the Führer has decided to make a clean sweep. He prophesied to the Jews that if they again brought about a world war, they would live to see their annihilation in it. That wasn't just a catch-word. The world war is here, and the annihilation of the Jews must be the necessary consequence.

« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »Joseph E. Davies

Nice to see you, Shred Blue. It’s good you’ve made your opinions known.

I’ll get back to you later.

BTW, thanks for giving us something else to talk about besides Trump.

“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

When you say hitler was a positive Christian it worries me . I feel certain Hitler only played into Christianity to gain the main support of people at that time . Islam too ,from what I've gathered the last 3 years to hitler Christianity was judea 2.0 , holding the Europeans back for a very long time .

Trump lol . Alt right too , I believe they are controlled oppositions . If they won't full out defend The European resistance they are either misinformed , uninformed, unhonorable , or controlled opposition. All things I would not want running our species into "utopia " any soon lol .

Shred blue88 wrote:When you say hitler was a positive Christian it worries me . I feel certain Hitler only played into Christianity to gain the main support of people at that time . Islam too ,from what I've gathered the last 3 years to hitler Christianity was judea 2.0 , holding the Europeans back for a very long time .

I mean he was a Positive Christian:

Positive Christianity (German: Positives Christentum) was a movement within Nazi Germany which mixed ideas of racial purity and Nazi ideology with elements of Christianity.

Hitler was definitely not a friend of Christianity nor a Christian in any normal sense of the term. However the German edition of Hitlers table talk reveals 4 things. Hitler believed in God, Christ, the immortality of the soul, and divine providence.

« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »Joseph E. Davies

I still do not see hitler to be a Christian. I only see him playing into Christian values . I would consider hitler closer to Goebbels speech on paganism " leave man to the earth realm , and God to the afterlife" . " we do not act as if God is the leader of our party "

Denying-History wrote:Hitler was a Positive Christian, so I don't know why he would start gassing Christians.

He was in no way, shape or form a Christian of any kind. Goebbels stated in his diary that Hitler hated Christianity and Christians. Goebbels shared this view, as did all of the other top Nazis, particularly Bormann, Himmler, and Heydrich.

I do not believe in the plans for a systematic annihilation of the Jewish race to be anything more then carefully , and internatioally constructed propaganda to keep the Reich from re rising.

This is garbage. There was literally no such propaganda, and part of the reason Modern Germany is a vibrant economy today is that the victors of WW2 allowed and encouraged them to rise. Harry Truman literally said that he "did not care" about what former Nazis may have done and gave the go ahead to recruit them for NASA despite involvement in inhuman slave labor, as well as the go ahead to recruit former SS men involved in massacres against Jews into what would eventually become the BND. Dwight D. Eisenhower supported a UN resolution that condemned Israel for abducting Adolf Eichmann, and backed the West German government in blackmailing Israel to prevent them from exposing Ex Nazis with prominent roles in the German government. Someone doesn't know history.

One is because if it was a complete genetic cleansing of Jewish eugenics from Europe ( and somehow the whole planet if the propagandist want to go that far ) then every single Jew would have been killed ,

Non Sequitur. The conclusion literally does not follow from the premise. The Nazis were stopped before they could get that far because they lost. Even while they were losing, they tried to kill or exploit to death every Jew they could get their hands on.

not even close to the extent they press us in mainstream controlled institutions

The "mainstream" actually ignores the massacres in the east and Ghettoes, and tends to focus on Western Europe. The "Mainstream" also insinuates that Jews were just one of many victim groups, instead of the most targeted group.

Because the whole entire church is a rigged hypocrisy that has caused more then enough damage on our planet the last 2000 years to receive the permanent ban hammer . Agnosticism is the best religion for the world , the let gods speak for themselves .

I really don't get why Deniers have such a hard time grasping the concept of "Selection", wherein you kill or dispose of those who can't work or be exploited, and exploit the hell out of those who can. I don't even need to site the Wansee Protocol or anything: the "Mainstream" Movie Schindler's list repeatedly emphasizes the importance of the selection, with several characters justifying this and that person's survival because "they can work". It's not even rocket science.

Shred blue88 wrote:I do not believe in the plans for a systematic annihilation of the Jewish race to be anything more then carefully , and internatioally constructed propaganda to keep the Reich from re rising.
One is because if it was a complete genetic cleansing of Jewish eugenics from Europe ( and somehow the whole planet if the propagandist want to go that far ) then every single Jew would have been killed

Why? Many Jews in Europe were under the direct control of non-German governments, and, well, the war did end, with the German effort coming unglued before they could conclude their "little" project. In fact, Himmler called an end to it, in part to try and curry favor with the allies, at the end of October 1944. You do realize that actions take place in space and time? And that the war didn't turn out the way the Nazi planners hoped? Many of their ambitions - not just the Jewish extermination - were left unrealized. Did they not have those ambitions, either, for Lebensraum, smashing the USSR, etc?

One thing that took place in space and time was the preservation of Jewish labor before the laborers were to be killed. There are various estimates of the number "selected" (do you know the meaning of this word?) for labor or for death - Goebbels' estimate of 60% is decent but the % varied by place and time - and there exists correspondence among officials on how many to leave alive to fulfill critical economic tasks. (Goebbels, 27 March 1941, near beginning of Einsatz Reinhard: "The procedure is a pretty barbaric one and not to be described here more definitely. Not much will remain of the Jews. On the whole it can be said that about 60 per cent of them will have to be liquidated whereas only about 40 per cent can be used for forced labor.")

As to your reluctance to believe that the Germans would kill off workers, well, sometimes they were reluctant to do so, which is why division of Jews into fit (for labor) and unfit was the norm. But you also need to tell us what this means, an instruction sent by Otto Bräutigam to officials in the Ostland in late 1941: "economic considerations . . . must not be taken into account when dealing with the Jewish problem."

Shred blue88 wrote:Most of the german Jews got to leave before the war

The number of German Jews who "got to leave" Germany before the war (were forced to leave Germany is a more apt way to put it) isn't relevant to the Final Solution or other mass murder actions against the Jews, for two reasons: first, the decision in favor of genocide wasn't made until the war years; second, the war brought millions of non-German Jews under German control or put them into harm's way in countries allied with or friendly to the Third Reich. These non-German Jews make up the vast majority of those killed during the Final Solution, of course. Using logic and even a minimal understanding of chronology would help you here.

Shred blue88 wrote:many served

Many of who served what?

Shred blue88 wrote:Also partial Jews were able to marry Germans , that makes absolutely no sense it's actually kind of funny to me

Why is this funny? Please explain what you mean and the relevance of this to the Final Solution, telling us how German law and practices on mixed marriages evolved from 1933 into the war.

Shred blue88 wrote:It is my view that many were persecuted, many killed , but not even close to the extent

Which institutions? In this subforum we discuss historical research, not vague slogans. Here is a list of important, fairly recent works that disagree with what you claim in your post:

Długobroski/Piper, Auschwitz 1940-1945 (5 vol)
Cesarani, Final Solution
Friedlander, The Years of Extermination
Silberklang, Gates of Heaven
Feferman, The Holocaust in the Crimea and North Caucasus
Braham, The Politics of Genocide (2 vol)
Wachsmann, KL
Longerich, Himmler or Holocaust

It would be nice for a change if one of you doubters/deniers would actually speak to what researchers have found and concluded - instead of making impossibly sweeping statements about "mainstream controlled institutions," for example.

Tell us where these researchers are wrong. Pick one, any one, to start.

Shred blue88 wrote:I don't believe the Jews run the world , I believe the leaders that were once behind the Abrahamic church either Ancient ( if somehow still alive of the , the same entities that's caused the fall of Rome ) , through rejuvenation or any other methods or through secrecy of descendents , I agree fully with hitler that those religions need to go and if he won Im sure all the Abrahamic religions would have gone including Christianity/ Islam etc . Not sure he'd start gassing Christian Germans next lolol

What on earth does this gibberish have to do with the historical evidence for the mass murder of Jews and others by the Third Reich and its allies?

Shred blue88 wrote:I do not believe in the plans for a systematic annihilation of the Jewish race to be anything more then carefully , and internatioally constructed propaganda to keep the Reich from re rising.

Odd turn of phrase.

One is because if it was a complete genetic cleansing of Jewish eugenics from Europe ( and somehow the whole planet if the propagandist want to go that far ) then every single Jew would have been killed , but that's not the case .

The Germans tried really, really hard to make that a reality.

Seriously, though, this is very scattershot. Most of the Jews that died did so while under direct German control, i.e. Polish, Soviet and Hungarian Jews in the occupied territories. Where the Germans had trouble was in the countries of their allies, the Bulgarians, the Romanians, the Italians (until 1943) and Hungary (until 1944). While these countries dealt with their own antisemitism they were not willing to give up their native Jews. In other occupied countries like Denmark, France, Norway, etc. the Germans relied on local help because they lacked manpower to round up Jews on their own. This was easier in 1941 and 1942, harder later when Germany started to lose and resistance grew.

So, Shred, what this shows me is that you lack a certain knowledge base. That’s OK, we’ll accommodate your lack of knowledge and start slow.

Most of the german Jews got to leave before the war ,”

Because policies changed over time, it started with expulsion before the war (German, Austrian and some Czech Jews) but it’s hard to force people to leave when they have no place to go. When Germany occupied Western Europe it took away countries that Jews could flee to.

When Germany occupied 1/2 of Poland in 1939 it found itself with over a million Jews, when it occupied the rest in the Summer of 1941 it found two million more. You can also add the Baltic Jews that Summer and Soviet Jews as well.

So, where could these Jews go, Shred? The Nisko Plan was an abject failure and the Madagascar Plan was a non-starter.

and many served.

Not in the Civil Service from April of 1933 (with some exceptions under the insistence of Hindenburg), the Wehrmacht from around 1934 (formally in 1935) and “Mischlinge” (part Jews) after 1942.
Naturally some got away with lying about their Jewish heritage and remained in the service.

Also partial Jews were able to marry Germans , that makes absolutely no sense it's actually kind of funny to me .

Huh?
No, they could marry each other or other Jews but not Germans.

But I still believe to much of evidence of these figures is not to be seen , nor have I found any reasonable economical point in spending all these recourses in wiping them all out.

The extermination program was self-financing from the loot taken from the dead and the property taken from those selected to live.

It is my view that many were persecuted, many killed , but not even close to the extent they press us in mainstream controlled institutions.

Got a live one....

I don't believe the Jews run the world ,

Well, I’ll give you credit for being unique, most deniers think otherwise.

I believe the leaders that were once behind the Abrahamic church either Ancient ( if somehow still alive of the , the same entities that's caused the fall of Rome ) , through rejuvenation or any other methods or through secrecy of descendents ,

I’m going to go out on a limb and ask for some evidence of this.

I agree fully with hitler that those religions need to go and if he won Im sure all the Abrahamic religions would have gone including Christianity/ Islam etc .

Actually, Hitler admired Islam, or at least spoke approvingly of it from time to time.

Not sure he'd start gassing Christian Germans next lolol

Lolol, he did, the T-4 Program gassed German disabled, the majority of whom were Christians.

“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

Denying-History wrote:Hitler was a Positive Christian, so I don't know why he would start gassing Christians.

He was in no way, shape or form a Christian of any kind. Goebbels stated in his diary that Hitler hated Christianity and Christians. Goebbels shared this view, as did all of the other top Nazis, particularly Bormann, Himmler, and Heydrich.

However, one important aspect of our understanding of Nazism remains largely uncontested: the belief that, however much Christian clergy rowed from Christian traditions, Nazism itself could not be described as a Christian movement Indeed, it is more often thought to be anti-Christian. Through an examination of the religious views of the Nazi Party elite, including these commonly referred to as "pagans," this work seeks to reexamine this widely held assumption. In what follows, we explore the ways to reexamine this widely held assumption. In what follows, we explore the ways in which many leading Nazis in fact considered themselves Christian (among other things) or understood their movement (among other ways) within a Christian frame of reference. They drew on Christian traditions to articulate their vision of Nazism - not only to the German people, but more importantly to each other and themselves. In the process, these Nazis entered into a struggle with party pagans over religious meanings in their movement, a contest that ultimately became part of a larger debate about Nazi ideology itself.

-The Holy Reich: Nazi Conceptions of Christianity, 1919-1945 p. 3

General Gerhard Engel & Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber both found that Hitler was a monotheist and devoted to god. He was no Christian in any normal sense of the term, but Helmut Bruckner, Walter Buch, Rudolf Buttmann, Dietrich Eckart, & Hans Frank to name a few all recognized Hitler as some form of Christian. Himmler himself was a follower of Jesus to only later drop his faith, while still believing in Jesus:

In ideological training I forbid every attack against Christ as a person, since such attacks or insults that Christ was a Jew are unworthy of us and certainly untrue historically.

« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »Joseph E. Davies

Oh, Shred, I’m seeing more guests than usual. If they are your friends and are also deniers, tell them to sign on up and drop on by. We like new members.

“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

Shred blue88 wrote:I do not believe in the plans for a systematic annihilation of the Jewish race to be anything more then carefully , and internatioally constructed propaganda to keep the Reich from re rising.

Odd turn of phrase.

The Reich? I am guessing that's what he meant to lament - and blame on "others" - the self-suicide of Nazi Germany.

Jeffk 1970 wrote:

One is because if it was a complete genetic cleansing of Jewish eugenics from Europe ( and somehow the whole planet if the propagandist want to go that far ) then every single Jew would have been killed , but that's not the case .

The Germans tried really, really hard to make that a reality.

Using his logic on the case of the Red Army: the Red Army was not destroyed, therefore Germany did not aim to destroy the Red Army.

Another idea: you've tried valiantly to start a discussion of Chelmno. Maybe Shred could outline for us what happened to the Jews of the Warthegau and in doing so explain why Montague's book Chelmno and the Holocaust is supposedly in error.

Jeffk 1970 wrote:The extermination program was self-financing from the loot taken from the dead and the property taken from those selected to live.

Even so, the Nazis viewed the Jews as being behind the war and constituting Germany's most lethal enemy. Why wouldn't they wage war on the Jews, given that belief?

Still not biting . I definitely believe all of what you're stating was fabricated during and at the end of the war to pin the Reich in , especially because they wouldn't be able to defend themselves
From fabricated evidence after falling enemy hands . And as I've stated before , even if by some miracle chance the Reich did do the full extent of the holocaust , it wouldn't change my mind . The holocaust is just like American slavery and the expulsion of the Native Americans, not a means to end , only to change in methodology. But I still do not feel proven of millions of deaths of Jews . Especially not from an enemy that is very well dominitated by , Abrahamic interests . They will always craft the plot in their favor .

Shred blue88 wrote:Still not biting . I definitely believe all of what you're stating was fabricated during and at the end of the war to pin the Reich in , especially because they wouldn't be able to defend themselves
From fabricated evidence after falling enemy hands . And as I've stated before , even if by some miracle chance the Reich did do the full extent of the holocaust , it wouldn't change my mind . The holocaust is just like American slavery and the expulsion of the Native Americans, not a means to end , only to change in methodology. But I still do not feel proven of millions of deaths of Jews . Especially not from an enemy that is very well dominitated by , Abrahamic interests . They will always craft the plot in their favor .

« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »Joseph E. Davies

Shred blue88 wrote:Still not biting . I definitely believe all of what you're stating was fabricated during and at the end of the war to pin the Reich in , especially because they wouldn't be able to defend themselves

What you believe is not nearly as interesting as what you have evidence for. Evidence, please, then, for both claims you make here:

- what have we stated that was fabricated? - tell us which documents and the evidence were fabricated, by whom, when, how - and tell us how you know
- what do you mean that after the war Nazis could not defend themselves - and what is your proof?

Also, please, tell us why many of the Einsatzgruppen leaders before and during their Nuremberg trial admitted to mass murder of the Jews.

Shred blue88 wrote:even if by some miracle chance the Reich did do the full extent of the holocaust , it wouldn't change my mind .

Well, that's very scientific and open minded of you.

Shred blue88 wrote:The holocaust is just like American slavery and the expulsion of the Native Americans, not a means to end , only to change in methodology.

I don't know what this means. Can you explain it?

Shred blue88 wrote:But I still do not feel proven of millions of deaths of Jews

Right, we got that. What you don't seem to want to do is tell us why we should feel that the mass murder has not been proven. You seem bad at that part of it.

Shred blue88 wrote:Especially not from an enemy that is very well dominitated by , Abrahamic interests . They will always craft the plot in their favor .

During WWII? After? The Allies? The Soviets? Please spell this out. I do not know what an "Abrahamic interest" is, so please spell that out for me, too.

Today German scholars, btw, do some of the best research on the Holocaust. Odd, eh?

Your vague generalizations need to be supported with cases and examples for this to turn into something productive and/or interesting. Also, could you please answer specific questions we ask you and respond to specific points made? Is that too much to ask?

Shred blue88 wrote:I have already heard three of the videos you posted before , especially the no mercy in existence and non existence speech

That's great, you haven't proven their context wrong. Especially when Himmler stated at Posen "We have the moral right, we had the duty to our people to do it, to kill this people who wanted to kill us."

« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »Joseph E. Davies

Quick question, Shred, to help us understand where you are coming from: did German police/security squads and local helpers shoot large numbers of Jewish civilians in the occupied USSR after Barbarossa?

It's not too much to ask , I'm not here to change anyone's mind on the matter , please remember that . I have never claimed " the world needs to hold my view on the holocaust " . In fact I've always been open minded to its possibility, I've only claimed that regardless if it happened or not does not change my view point or support for the third reichs mission of defeating the Abrahamic empire . The greater good of the world I suppose you could say .

I definitely believe all of what you're stating was fabricated during and at the end of the war to pin the Reich in , especially because they wouldn't be able to defend themselves

Um, the Allies made up the Nuremberg Laws? Those were publicized and announced by Hitler himself.
What other part are you talking about?

From fabricated evidence after falling enemy hands

Oh, excellent!!!!!! Awesome, hey, Shred, we actually have a thread on forgeries!!!! Whaddya know, right???? I’ll track it down or someone else can and post the link here. You can then post your evidence that we can all look and marvel at.

I even made up a thread on proof of the hoax. I’ll get that one for you as well.

. And as I've stated before , even if by some miracle chance the Reich did do the full extent of the holocaust , it wouldn't change my mind .

About what? That they didn’t die or they did and deserved it?
Please clarify.

The holocaust is just like American slavery and the expulsion of the Native Americans, not a means to end , only to change in methodology.

Well, there was never a stated or implied goal that slavery was about extermination. That’s actually foolish, African Slaves were an investment of sorts (I realize that sounds a bit calloused) and as such there was a vested interest in the owner to provide at least minimal care.

As for the Native Americans, you can look at that as genocidal, certainly a lot of the language and actions were, but you’d need to compare and contrast what happened in the United States, Canada, Mexico and South America. All are different test cases.

But I still do not feel proven of millions of deaths of Jews .

Well, how many do you think died, then? Spoiler alert, any number you provide will probably be wrong but I’m happy to see your evidence.
As for ours, we have a lot. Really, there’s a lot.

Especially not from an enemy that is very well dominitated by , Abrahamic interests . They will always craft the plot in their favor .

Shred, I’m kind of a pain in the ass about wanting evidence of stuff. It’s a failing, I know, but nevertheless you’ll need to get used to it.

So, if you are going to talk about “Abrahamic interests” I’m gonna need an explanation and proof.

BTW, YouTube videos are not proof. Any moron with access to a phone and the internet can make a freakin video and post it to YouTube.

“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

Shred blue88 wrote:I do feel sure they shot large amounts of Jews in the east

They did, and they also gassed about 900,000 people at Auschwitz, 780,000-925,000 at Treblinka, 480,000 at Belzec, 167,000 at sobibor, 152,000-172,000 at Chelmno, and around 12 to 15 thousand at Majdanek.

« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »Joseph E. Davies

Shred blue88 wrote:It's not too much to ask , I'm not here to change anyone's mind on the matter , please remember that . I have never claimed " the world needs to hold my view on the holocaust " . In fact I've always been open minded to its possibility, I've only claimed that regardless if it happened or not does not change my view point or support for the third reichs mission of defeating the Abrahamic empire . The greater good of the world I suppose you could say .

Fine, but discussion of the genocide is not really possible if you say "I believe X" but cannot tell others why you believe X.

Again, what is "the Abrahamic empire"? How does it manifest itself in the real world?

Shred blue88 wrote:It's not too much to ask , I'm not here to change anyone's mind on the matter , please remember that . I have never claimed " the world needs to hold my view on the holocaust " . In fact I've always been open minded to its possibility, I've only claimed that regardless if it happened or not does not change my view point or support for the third reichs mission of defeating the Abrahamic empire . The greater good of the world I suppose you could say .

This sorta feels like a concession of sorts, do you need a lifeline to help you out?

What Abrahamic Empire?

“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

Shred blue88 wrote:I do feel sure they shot large amounts of Jews in the east

Well, that’s a relief. Why do you think they did that?

“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

I'm still not biting here Jeff lolol . I love how emotionally involved in this you are but it's just not working on changing my mind , I have yet to cite any YouTube videos so why would you claim me to do so now ?

I love how emotionally involved in this you are but it's just not working on changing my mind ,

I’m not trying to change your mind, I’m trying to figure out what you know and what you can provide proof for.
lolol

I have yet to cite any YouTube videos so why would you claim me to do so now ?

I’m generally directed to YouTube videos by people who believe in massive conspiracies that control the world.

But, you can start by explaining what this “Abrahamic” whatever is, who is behind it, what is your proof and most importantly why I should give a {!#%@}.

Go!!!

“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

Shred blue88 wrote:I have also not yet ever fully denied the possibility of a holocaust, or whether a holocaust or not would change my mind . Do you understand this or is this passing you by ?

Um:

I do not believe in the plans for a systematic annihilation of the Jewish race to be anything more then carefully , and internatioally constructed propaganda to keep the Reich from re rising.

Sounds like denial, there’s no, “I have questions” or “I have doubts,” etc.

“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

lol man you are butt hurt . I have already told you believe much of the circumstances to be fabricated , also , I have already told you
1 I'm not trying to make you believe anything or " give a {!#%@}" .
2 and I can't say this enough , regardless of the holocaust did or did not happen does not change my mind on any of this .

Shred blue88 wrote:I have also not yet ever fully denied the possibility of a holocaust, or whether a holocaust or not would change my mind . Do you understand this or is this passing you by ?

If your mind has you saying, "I do not believe in the plans for a systematic annihilation of the Jewish race to be anything more then carefully , and internatioally constructed propaganda to keep the Reich from re rising" - and if you then concede that the Nazis committed a mass murder of European Jews, say, numbering 5.1 million or so victims, and that there is evidence for systematic extermination efforts, you will have actually changed your mind. So your point here is lost on me - unless you are saying that the Nazis should have carried out a war against Jews and that evidence for or against that war won't change your mind about what you think the Nazis should have done.

Shred blue88 wrote:I have not come here to change anyone's beliefs only state mine LOL . For some reason you seem to think I'm here to make you think something , which I still have yet to incite

No, we got that. We are trying to have a discussion, which will not happen if you say "I believe this but can't say why" and then others say "We believe this but can't say why." Do you understand this?