That's some mighty interesting logic you're employing there. It seems a little bit of a stretch to paint the AR as problematic because it is more accurate, doncha think?

A firearm is like a toothbrush; there isn't a "best" one. If what you have works for you, great. If it doesn't meet your needs, get a different one (toothbrush or firearm. Just don't get the two mixed up.)

i have a 7.62x 39 and i purchased that because of the reliability. but i do agree with brassmonkey about barrier penetration.either round can take down a human easily .it seems the aks are less accurate than the ars but then again ,consider your budget.you can get an old milsurp ak47 for about 500 bucks ars are a lot more than that..
they are both combat weapons..the whole world uses 7.62s the united states uses 5.56 (.223)

does anyone know if there are any other military's that use the .223 ??

Is there any reason that the only choices you offered was 223 or 308?Is it that these calibers come spray and pray firearms? How about some of the 3000 plus other calibers? Or is the only criteria how many times you can shot before you have to reload? Vast ammounts of ammo is unnessasary if accurate fire is applied. The famous Hollywood shootout? The bad guys shot over 1300 rounds of spray of pray with 15 hits one by richochet none life threatening injuries. One bad guy commited suicide, the other taken out with 1 round of aimed fire from an accurate rifle. SO the question should be which rifle should I get that will allow me ease of carry and accurate fire. I prefer 308 myself as it has been proved game capable. It is one of the most widely used calibers in Africa.

Is there any reason that the only choices you offered was 223 or 308?Is it that these calibers come spray and pray firearms? How about some of the 3000 plus other calibers? Or is the only criteria how many times you can shot before you have to reload? Vast ammounts of ammo is unnessasary if accurate fire is applied. The famous Hollywood shootout? The bad guys shot over 1300 rounds of spray of pray with 15 hits one by richochet none life threatening injuries. One bad guy commited suicide, the other taken out with 1 round of aimed fire from an accurate rifle. SO the question should be which rifle should I get that will allow me ease of carry and accurate fire. I prefer 308 myself as it has been proved game capable. It is one of the most widely used calibers in Africa.

I have no prob with your post 30-30. I do ask-who the 'ell lives at 14,000 feet in the Colorado rockies? No one. Leadville is at 10,000, Mt Elbert is just over 14,000. Do you rock climb home? Just curious, as I know a little about that.

What? The subject title says 7.62 or .223, not .308! And many firearms use .308 and .223 that would not necessarily be "spray and pray" guns. Heck, you can take your time and place 7.62 rounds with decent enough precision in the right hands.

And to the other poster talking about penetration, just buy some of the steel core 7.62 that can still be found for sale. It is crazy expensive, but WILL penetrate. If you want some survival gear stored away, a brick or case of steel core would be a wise addition. Always keep a clip of it ready, incase you need to change out your SP or ball ammo that isn't cutting it.

I'd grab my AR in 5.56 with a combo of FMJ and soft points. We, as a people, are NOT limited to the FMJ only bullets we had to use in the military, and thus, makes the 5.56 much more effective with modern bullets.

I'd grab my AR in 5.56 with a combo of FMJ and soft points. We, as a people, are NOT limited to the FMJ only bullets we had to use in the military, and thus, makes the 5.56 much more effective with modern bullets.

Very important, and often overlooked point. We have the freedom to handload our own stuff to our own specs, buy whichever brand works for us, and so on.

I, personally, hated lugging around tracer, which to me was asking for trouble. I much would have preferred buying my own stuff, out of my own pocket, than carrying what was issued.

I have no prob with your post 30-30. I do ask-who the 'ell lives at 14,000 feet in the Colorado rockies? No one. Leadville is at 10,000, Mt Elbert is just over 14,000. Do you rock climb home? Just curious, as I know a little about that.

Dont live at 14,000' but live on a 14,000' mountain. Actually live at 9,050'