Pat, do you really think much would have changed if we lost at Midway?

I mean, obviously, if the Japs didn't lose any carriers, and we lost all of ours, it would have been disastrous for us, BUT Spruance was under orders to be careful, and besides he was a prudent admiral, I think we may have bloodied Nagumo a little, and lost the Yorktown regardless, and the results would have resembled Coral Sea, a tactical defeat...

This is probably what WOULD have happened had we not broken their code, we wouldn't have been blundering around with everything hanging out in the breeze BEFORE they took Midway if we didn't kNOW.

So what then would have happened? Yes they take Midway, BUT there was NO WAY they could have held it that far from ANY logistic support. Their fleet could NOT have been in range indefinitely, in fact only a few DAYS per month at best. And their CLOSEST base for support was Wake, too far away for any air service except perhaps a few trips by their scarce mavis Flying Boats, or "stripped down" Betty's...nothing in the way of any "air bridge...."

EVERY sub we had would be blockading Midway, our remaining carriers would be shuttling attacks virtually EVERY day, with B-17s hitting it from Pearl with impunity. They would NOT have a chance to get Midway operational as a base, and it's aircraft would be destoyed on the ground, without spare parts, and without fuel or ammo.

No, Midway could ONLY have been a "loss" for us had we followed Yamamoto's script in his overly complicated ballet and ALSO sought the Mahanian "Decisive battle," committing EVERYTHING we had in a "last ditch" fight. And there is no way Nimitz falls for it even if we didn't have "Magic."

The A-Go operation was doomed from the start for Japan, too many conflicting objectives, not enough logistics to support ANY of the many facets, really just a waste of precious fuel and resources to do SOMETHING.....the fact we knew it was coming and jumped them the way we did just was icing on the cake.

Click to expand...

Ahhhhhhhh, Polish. My Bersa loving friend. The scenarios, or some combination of them, would have indeed painted a dire picture for the U.S. Forgetting for a moment the indisputable historical facts, if Midway would have seen OUR Navy losing three carriers (and Japan none), AND if Pearl Harbor would have included three to four devastating sweeps (including our critical infrastructure to wage war), then it's not beyond the realm of possibility that we would have lost the ability to project enough force to slow the Japanese down - let alone stop them.

The wild card is the Manhattan Project. No matter how we could have gotten our asses whipped in a host of wild, ficititious scenarios, we could have still brought them to their knees if we dropped about five or ten Fat Boys on major centers of Japanese population at some point. Question: if we would have gotten our asses whipped in the Pacific, it would seem likely that we would have no bases close enough to launch the B-29's for multiple strikes on the Japanese mainland to deliver a little atom-splitting fun. So, where could we have launched such an attack under this scenario? Who knows?

We're all home boys and its great fun to cheer for our brave American forefathers who fought this awful war. But don't delude yourself; providence was on our side, random chance smiled upon us repeatedly, and we were bold battle planners. However, there were plenty of strategic dice rolls that if wouldn't have rolled in our favor, would have meant a succession of crushing losses that would have made it hard to sustain a defense against Japan. A loss on our part was a real possibility.

Could Japan have won in the Pacific . . . if the attack on Pearl Harbor, 7 December 1941, had been better planned and executed?

Click to expand...

Actually, these "Alternative Military History" and "What If" questions remind me that If Pigs Had Wings They Could Fly......and the State of Iowa would have the world's largest Air Force!

Yamamoto was a supurb strategist....but he was also a pragmatist:

""I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."

"In the first six to twelve months of a war with the United States and Great Britain I will run wild and win victory upon victory. But then, if the war continues after that, I have no expectation of success."

I agree with most here......yeah, it would've taken longer, but final defeat of Japan was inevitable.

Actually, these "Alternative Military History" and "What If" questions remind me that If Pigs Had Wings They Could Fly......and the State of Iowa would have the world's largest Air Force!

Yamamoto was a supurb strategist....but he was also a pragmatist:

""I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."

"In the first six to twelve months of a war with the United States and Great Britain I will run wild and win victory upon victory. But then, if the war continues after that, I have no expectation of success."

I agree with most here......yeah, it would've taken longer, but final defeat of Japan was inevitable.

Click to expand...

Yamamoto was certainly no fool, X, and deep down I don't think he believed Japan could win a full scale Pacific conflict with the U.S. He had served as the Japanese naval attaché in Washington during the 1920s and understood the war-making capabilities of the this country far better than the political leadership. When ordered to fight, like any good soldier, he fought, and used the tactics he believed gave Japan the best chance of success, i.e., a strategy geared toward a quick victory. The problem the Japanese faced, even with their early conquests, was industrial capacity and resources to sustain a war over the vast expanse of the Pacific. Once the Japanese were forced over onto the defensive--after Midway that is--the issue was no longer even remotely in doubt.

Like Us On Facebook!

The Firearms Forum is on online community for all gun enthusiasts. Join us to discuss firearms of all kinds, gun accessories, legal issues and more. Membership is free and we welcome all types of shooters, whether you're a novice or a pro. Come for the info, stay and make some friends.