I probably am no different from any guy or lady in that when I am looking for something, I try to find it at the best price I can, especially when it comes to things like Model T parts – something that at times is not easy to find, inherently making the price usually higher. So, in that effort to find “affordable” T parts, I “monitor” what is sold on this forum and also other places like Ebay(T-bay to some) and Craigslist as well every day.

I realize that typically “most” people want to make a profit on what they are selling and I have NO problem with that whatsoever. In my opinion though, some daily sellers on this forum take that if you will “to the extreme” and this is what I mean by that. A few days ago I found a much needed T part for me on Ebay at an excellent “Buy It Now” price. Since I “monitor” T parts on Ebay multiple times a day, as well as this forum too, if you don’t act quickly, a lot of times you miss out. Well, as I was trying to pay for this Ebay T part, apparently someone got there a few seconds before me and bought it first. Here again, good luck for them and bad timing for me – no issue with that at all. What bothers me is a few days later, I see that exact T part on the Classified Parts forum here now marked up 300% - YES, they now want 3 times what they paid for it! Now if they had “restored” the part like maybe bead or sand blasting it, de-greasing, priming and painted it, well yes, they should be able to re-sell it for more than they paid for it, but this was NOT the case. They simply bought it off Ebay, then marked it up 300%, to now advertise and sell on this forum. Maybe needless to say, this isn’t the first time I have seen this and I am sure it won’t be the last, but how does this promote the hobby? Maybe I am the idiot and I should be doing this myself like a couple of the daily sellers on the Classified Parts forum here? I do sell parts on this forum from time to time, but never for profit which I guess makes me stupid. I am usually glad just to find a new home for the parts and to get them out of my way. I guess that “works” for me, but again, I don’t mind when someone does make a profit selling T parts, but just buying them off one selling forum and then immediately selling them on another forum marked up 300%...really???

Okay…I vented and feel better now. Again, not looking for a fight, just my opinion which is one of those things like an “@sshole”, everybody has one…

Happens all the time, especially at swap meets. I've watched many good deals get snapped up fast and simply moved over to another table with a jacked-up price on them. Sorry you missed the goodie you were chasing.
Terry

IMO, that's just life. At least T parts can bring some $ more than others. Just expected today in the 'quick I need it fast' times.

Buying on the internet is normally more costly, but that expense is without driving long distance to a swap, paying travel expenses, hotels, meals, then hiking all over various tables and tarps looking for what you need or wish to have. Many times, zero acquired parts with lots of expense.

So internet buyers actually save money, and internet sellers, regardless of pricing, help out those buyers.

As for % of profit or markup, that is relative. I know of one example, a rather rare alum. early 'oiler timer' in nice shape.

Seller got a price 17 times his cost.

Was that excessive? Perhaps, but buyer was super pleased.

Oh, that rather rare part cost the seller $5.

The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry FordDon’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain.Henry Ford

Pretty common practice, esp on the net.
"If you needs it, you're gonna pay the price"...
One example that irritates me is OT, but Dan Wesson .357 Pistol Packs.
Sold in a case [1980s] with 2.5", 4", 6" and 8" interchangeable barrels, a tool and gauge etc.
A couple guys buy up the packs, for say $1500 and the split them up, selling each barrel for $400-$500.
The frame for $350...etc.
And then there's guys out there buying the pieces to complete a PP !!! Paying sometimes $4000 to do so...
Irritating, but as long as there's a market, that's how capitalism works.

Fortunately T parts are generally plentiful, so you can maybe find that part cheaper.

3 x COG is good retail pricing, for a typical margin. ($100 cost x 3 = $300 retail price) Remembering that vendors will want a 50% off your retail price each, as they will buy in quantity, bringing higher volume of sales, with less work finding individual buyers.

Just typical..... more than 3 x is used in many industries...recently bought any new furniture?

The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry FordDon’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain.Henry Ford

On the one hand there is always that 'whatever the traffic will bear' mentality and then there is the concept of 'fair' as you ask.

People that do this sort of thing as a business for industrial stuff usually ascribe to the following for manufactured pieces...

If the end user can buy it elsewhere then 2::1 is a 'fair' mark-up over cost of goods to see where you stand in the market....
If you are unique in source then 3::1 is considered a 'fair' mark up over cost of goods...

Surprising and just showing this as a further example...if you buy bearings from a place like Bearings Inc. via open stock number, and you identify the use application and thus 'certify for application' then it has always been considered 'fair' to go to 3::1 over purchase price also. Guys may not consider it 'fair', but the general industry parts supply houses that have a where used as part of their description do it all the time, even if the Bearing distributor is right down the street.

My own pet peeve is Miniature Lamps. Whoever supplies one of the suppliers probably needs to charge more as he has a manual operation included in the pass through that he does. He has to remove each and every lamp from the box and wipe the base with Acetone to remove the original bulb number before forwarding to the distributor. Even he gets messed up from time to time and puts 12V lamps back in the 6V wrappers before sending them forward and since they have been 'cleansed' of any ID no one can check. This happens time and again....but like I said, I feel sorry for the parts house...they just keep sending out more of the same as a customer service assist....like I said, pet peeve, but for now I also think that I'm done with any lighting projects on my T's....

So a $450.000.00 investment on equipment, taxes, maintenance, not to include a life of education with experience is only worth fair market price for “limited” product of rare and odd items?

I must have missed something

I am a defender of the craftsmen as they are becoming less and less. I believe in good will to my fellow man and passing on what is not needed to another in need cheap or fair. I do not care for the prices being so though the roof the hobby surfers or becomes a liability.

When a hobby becomes more of a business with profit first, then it has the same future as any other, need vs cost. As we are seeing, to many making some heavy profits on used parts, thus the hobby is suffering from a dying market of need vs investment.

Sad, but some days reality sets in. Me, I am in it for the fun, “Damn the Torpedo’s“

I don't think the OP was referring to craftsmen or manufacturers asking realistic prices.

What he was talking about was someone attempting to flip something for obscene profits.

Regardless...I'm part owner of a distribution business so I'm no stranger to the need to maintain healthy margins. If we can double our money (50% margin) that usually translates into margins in the 30's once all the C.O.G.S. numbers are crunched. Again...we're happy with that.

Get down below that and it starts to get iffy trying to cover all the other costs of the business and maintain EBITDA numbers that don't make me reach for the Alka Seltzer bottle.

I've always marveled at the grocery business with their single digit margins. They have to churn through a lot of inventory to stay afloat. But that even pales in comparison to a friend of mine who was in Purchasing here in The Woodlands for a distribution business that dealt exclusively with nuclear power plants. They moved a couple billion dollars worth of product per year...but they did it at LESS THAN ONE PERCENT MARGIN! That's crazy stuff. It makes me feel all warm and fuzzy about my margins in the 30's.

Okay everybody...we have ventured far away from what my beef was and I don't want my name connected to this. I have nothing but respect and admiration for anyone that fixes, restores, manufactures, and sells T parts as a business. They can charge what they like in my opinion and if they want to stay in business, they sort of have to keep in line with what the "market" will pay for it.

My beef was that a couple of daily sellers(to the best of my knowledge that have no "tax id business") on this forum buy parts(usually at a steal) NOT because they need the part, but to "flip" it and charge an insane price for it most of the time - again my opinion which I think everyone is entitled to. To me this is a matter of ethical principle and I think it does nothing to support the hobby. To reiterate, I know this happens every day, it doesn't surprise me any, and I know it will continue...

These people are "Profiteers". Their only interest in the hobby is making money. They do or make nothing. Just buy, mark up, and resell. These profiteers drive the prices up making it harder on all of us.

When I had my manufacturing business my accountant advised me to divide the cost of making each part by 35% to get the price I had to sell for to stay in business.
Example $3.50 divided by 35% equals $10.00.

Those "Profiteers" (meaning a profit is an evil thing, I suppose, since they're not running a blockade or benefiting from a war, death or destruction, that I know of) allow me to come to the MTFCA website and purchase (or not) goods that support my hobby. It's quick, easy, and takes little time. Those evil folks keep me in the shop making repairs or parts/tools to sell in retirement, and not surfing the internet ceaselessly hoping to stumble on something I had no idea I needed, but still felt a burning need to purchase as a "bargain".

If someone has invested their time to find something that they can mark up, meet a need, and make a sale between a willing seller and willing buyer, then I say "more power to them". It's called Capitalism, and while it can be distorted and abused, it's evil existence has provided more wealth and abundance than any other system thus created.

Personally, I've overpaid for things on the Parts Forum, and it annoyed me, mightily, since I know full well that I could have driven 2000 miles to Hershey, gotten a room, paid the entry fee, walked for miles, needed a chiropracter later, and could easily buy the same thing for 1/2 price (or it might not have been there at all...who knows?). Considering the carbon emissions/global warming avoided and healthcare not needed due to not taking that trip, I think it's a net win for me, the environment, and the people who subsidize free health insurance...

IMHO it makes no difference what somebody paid for it. I don't care what Walmart paid for the microwave in China, all I care is what it costs me to take it home.

Same deal here. It is nobody's business or concern what I pay for a carburetor or a tractor or an anything else I have for sale. It is worth what it is worth to the buyer as well as what it is worth to another buyer and what it is worth to me. I feel no obligation to give anything to anybody who is far richer than me, driving a big motor home towing a $20,000 trailer with an expensive old car in it and headed to a nice tour somewhere while I am in the shop breathing old gas fumes, bead blast dust and machining parts for a carburetor. No matter how much they snivel. Everybody in this business knows some of the same whiners who are always wanting a better deal and will bitch about what they get after they get it.

If they can afford all that they can afford to support the people who do the work and have the merchandise to support their hobby.

I trade merchandise for dollars and trade those dollars for service, taxes, etc.

If I am smart enough to pick a $1500 carburetor out of a box at Bakersfield for $25 my feeling is that the seller should have done his research as I did mine. Just because he left money on the table does not mean that I am obligated to do so.

Anybody wants to buy $100,000 ++++++++++++++++++ worth of brass carburetor inventory call me. You can make the easy big bucks or give it away once your check clears. You own it, you do what you want with it.

When all the vendors are gone and there is no one left that is willing to have shelf after shelf of brass carburetors or Model T parts they have invested time and opportunity cost into ------ you can keep the hobby going by giving your stuff away and fixing it yourself.

Walt, I feel your what you feel. But, I may have to take the role of "Devil's advocate" here. I have almost always paid more for things than I would ever sell them for. Personally, I hate selling stuff I have, don't like hanging around my tables at swap meets, and really really hate packing and shipping things. But I also know that if I was really smart, I would be doing a lot of that.

Ever since I was forced into early retirement, I have been on a very tight budget. Health issues in the family (not me) cost me much more than I spend on myself. The cats cost me more than I have been spending on myself! For two years now, I have not been able to bolt the hogshead down for my '15 runabout project because I haven't been able to scrape up the hundred bucks to buy the band linings. I have good tires, old, bought several years ago and stored in a cool dark place. But I cannot mount them because I don't have inner-tubes that hold air well enough. I KNOW quite a few people supplement their limited incomes by buying and selling hobby related parts. I KNOW this because a few have said so on this forum over the years. I have talked with people buying and selling at swap meets, and some have told me that this is how they afford the big tours they do.

So, although it bothers me that I may miss out on a part I need at the price I would like to have paid for it, I try to take some comfort in thinking that the flipper might enjoy a great tour because of the money made on a few dozen items sold (and a two hundred dollar markup would only take a few sales, not dozens). In the end, if the part is worth it? And if I had the money? You pay the price. If not, maybe the flipper gets to keep it for awhile.

I may have nearly three hundred dollars worth of non-model T parts that I would love to sell. Now if I could find someone to give me $100 for them I could get my band linings.

I don’t do well at buying T parts to flip because I want to keep them once I get them. I picked up an accessory crankcase bottom support for $20 at a swap meet a couple of years ago and I thought I might get $65 real quick, but I still have it and I’m going to use it on a speedster. I did get this car with intention of flipping it, which I did. I was happy to get enough to buy enough propane to make it through the winter. It turns out that I, and also my friend that gave it to me didn’t do our research at all because the guy I sold it to looks like he’s going to come out pretty good.

I'm with Stan on this one. What I pay for something and what I sell it for are my business. My buying price has nothing to do with what it might sell for.
We have an anti-sccalping law in this state which limits profit one can make on event tickets to 10%. It's illegal to offer them for more than that mark-up. Why this scenario deserves particular attention is beyond me. Imagine what would happen if everybody was restricted by law to a 10% profit on cost.

I agree with Scott and Uncle Stan. I have been selling a lot of stuff on the classifieds in the last few years that I have collected over the past 55 years or so. I'm not doing it as a business, Lord knows that most of it goes for a lot less than I paid for it, but most of it I bought just because it was there and so was I. I list this stuff just as a WAG, if it doesn't sell, I drop the price, it's worth whatever someone wants to spend. I've bought some stuff on here that maybe I could have found cheaper later, but it was there and I had been looking for it for quite some time. As Scott said, when you factor in all of the expenses, sometimes it just makes sense. Some stuff I thought I needed at the time, some because I thought it was a bargain, some because I thought I could use it for trading stock, some I bought and then found another one that was better later, (that happened a lot! ), some that I just thought were cool at the time, and some that I just didn't want to see go to a scrapper. (never understood why someone would sell something for scrap that was worth much more for parts. I've seen it many times, a part was advertised that if they didn't get their price, it was going to the scrapper. I'd give it away before that). All of that being said, It's just been plain fun going to auctions, swap meets, meeting people at tours etc. etc. over the years. I get a lot of satisfaction knowing that some of my "stuff" is going to good homes and will be used. I've been "hooked" on this old "junk" since the I was a kid in the mid 50's, it's been my main "stress relief" for years. Dave

I would like to pose a question that might or might not shed some insight.

While capitalism is the way of this country and it is necessary to mark up products in order to stay alive and in business, consider this:

Would the "daily sellers" purchase an item that was already marked up 300% or would they do without and cause a downward spiral of the hobby?

An agreed upon price, of whatever amount, is a good thing. What's not a good thing is high prices that will slow, diminish, or deter hobbyists. Those high prices will push the hobby to the "elitist" level and eventually kill the desire for the average person to get into or continue their love. Since this is the exact opposite of what Henry was trying to do; is it right? Would we be where we are today if Henry marked his wares up 300%?

I can see both side of this argument, but I must admit, if I sold something for a low price or gave it away to someone thinking I was helping out a fellow hobbyist, only to find they didn't really need it and just wanted to resale for a profit, I would be pissed.

Many years ago, I wanted to get into hit and miss engines. A fellow on the other side of the state contacted me and said he had some he would sell, but he was very interested in whether I was really interested in owning one, or just looking to flip it. I must have convinced him I was serious about owning one because he sold me one at his cost (He had probably 30 of them in a building and had them all cataloged in a little book of when and where he bought them and how much he paid). A year or so later, I contacted him about buying another one I had seen on my previous visit. Again, he sold it to me at cost. I have seen him at various shows since and he always asks if I still have them. I do. And I still appreciate what he did for me. I can't see ever selling them. I would feel like I betrayed him if I did. My boys will likely get them one day.

I buy parts I want or need if I can afford them. Its not a do or die thing for me. Sure I see some things I would love to have but cant afford. I have been given some nice parts to use and would not sell as I think like Hal. Maybe not smart, but I help others the same way. Pay it forward if you will. I save material from my business and use some , but if someone needs something I give it to them to keep from having to pitch it.Now I have been given many parts by a well known seller on the classifieds. Sent through the mail mostly and not even postage in return was asked. That is helping keep the hobby going. I feel very lucky to have this forum and classifieds to help in my quest for knowledge and parts for these old used fords. If I could make a living at it I probably would but for now its just fun.

It all boils down to how bad you want an item and what your willing to pay for it. If you see something and you need and want it you had better buy it. Everybody wants a good deal. I thought I would make another round or two at Chickasha only to find that the item I wanted was gone. Learned the hard way. Walked a ways and saw the item at double the price. Oh well.....

I've given away enough model t parts to build a couple cars. I just gave a guy a nice 23 engine for his project along with a bunch of coils, a couple tires and a set of demountable front wheels. He is also using my big sand blast cabinet for free to clean parts.
We pretty much all do some things like that.

But the guy with the two hundred thousand dollar motor home, the big trailer behind with a nice T inside that wants me to knock a hundred bucks off because he is sending his granddaughter to college or is on the way to their winter home in Arizona or somewhere and fuel is expensive can go to hell.
Especially after he says, "from the looks of it you could use the money."

I think I'm as much a car guy as anybody
I got my first t in June of 1954.
I've never been without one since.
My current stable includes a 27 coupe, several Willy's pickups, my girls CJ2A, a 1940 Dodge pickup, 2 90's sedan DeVilles, a 52 Chevy truck, a 71 international one ton, 17 pre 1970 collector tractors, a 1974 Allis Chalmers rotobaler, a 1947 John Deere 116w wire tie baler and have sold probably half or more of all the collector cars, trucks, tractors and flywheel engines sold at auction in Montana in the last 37 years.
Plus t parts scattered over a couple ranches and a shop in town.

Like most of the people on here I made every dime of it myself. I got hosed more than once but it made me smarter and was probably good for me in the long run.
I started working in 1954 driving tractor for the neighbors, playing in my dad's band, and by the time I graduated high school was buying and selling to try to make a few bucks. After my dad died I spent several years roughnecking in the oil field, driving truck, playing music, helping my mother on the ranch and going to college every time I could save up enough money and she could do without me. I taught in one room country schools and finally got a college degree 11 years after I graduated high school.
In 1972 I moved to Helena, taught 5th grade, drove truck nights, weekends and summers and started a music shop. After ten years of that I quit teaching, went in the auction business and have had 425 auctions.
I started doing Carburetors about 15 years ago. In the meantime I bought my Westmore ranch from my brothers and sisters and my lazy HM ranch 20 years ago last fall.
For years I took night classes in machine shop, welding and continued college classes.
And playing music on the road and hosting what is now the longest running radio show on Montana public radio.
I buy and sell small farm machinery.
I don't owe anybody a discount on what I do or any explanations about anything.
I think that about how other people run their businesses too.
Cowboy up is my answer to most things.

Besides, it's NOT 300%, they had to pay postage to get it or invest time and even at that, still is below market price. I would have done the same thing only I missed it also by a few seconds thinking about it. I can afford to give my time to help someone with an issue on their car, but not parts on the shelf that I bought or were given to me because someone else did not want to deal with them, they go for market. If I don't sell them someone else will. Even FREE I have time invested in selling them, my time in this case is worth something. Profit is not a four letter word.

I have a model t and a half. Been a car guy all my life. I started with my 55 Chevy back in the 60's.
Save what money is left every month and try to build my dream car. I have purchased 5 wire wheel hubs for my build, all but two were
usable. No excuse for selling trash. Those who sold me that trash knew it was trash.
Yes, I also have learned.
I know some great car guys. Love the people who share my love for cars.