I finished my Aff a few months ago and i have been saving like crazy. I have finally purchased my first rig and was wondering what you guys think?

I ordered an Icon pro with Skyhook, a smart reserve 175 and as main a pilot 168. It is all brand new. I still have about 4 months till they complete it and so i need to save a little and decide whether I should get a Cypress 2, a vigil 2 or perhaps even the Mars M2. I live pretty close to the factory of Mars and so i could maybe get it from them directly and save a few bucks.

I would probably buy an English car. Im a sucker for Astons, but thats just me

I dunno man. Everyone keeps saying something different. I have tried and inform myself and they all have pro´s and con´s I guess.

Cypres has proved its reliability for a longer time I guess, but vigil 2 has been out for a while and does have some points on its favor ( on my newbie opinion, mind you)

I think mars m2 is here to stay though. They have been making Aads for over 25 years for the military and their Mpaad ( first "civilian" version) does have a couple of saves. I completed my aff on mars rigs, equiped with mpaad´s and I have nothing to say agains it. People on my drop zone are very safety oriented and many jump Mars gear.

The price of it its also a factor, since its about 1/2 of the price of a cypress. I really dont know what to do.

Personally I cringe every time someone says "I bought XXX AAD cause it was cheaper". For me my key requirements for an AAD are:

1. Safe my life when I need it to 2. Don't kill me with misfires 3. Easy to use to prevent accidents

Given the cost of AAD's at the market, I don't think any are overly expensive. When you're at 1000ft with nothing out, unconscious the few hundred $$$ you saved isn't going to help you if you're AAD doesn't fire for whatever reason. How much is your life worth?

Personally I have chosen an AAD that aims to distinguish itself in the market based on quality, not cost. But its your choice, and like you said everyone has their opinion. I'd never heard of Mars M2 and if someone asked me locally about getting one I'd steer them away from them because they aren't used much (if at all) in Australia, but by the sounds of it they're popular at your DZ so instructors and riggers will be familiar with it.

This rig will carry him through two downsizes. I jumped my first rig for about 3+ years. Put between 800-900 jumps on it. If you are in a hurry to downsize then maybe not. Plus...it is an awesome wingsuit rig.

3. Both Cypres and Vigil have had growing pains and problems, and both units are now reliable. The software they run is different, so you must read and understand the unit you are jumping with. See here for a full discussion:

Cypress for me. eveyone jumped on the vigil band wagon for whatever motivation whether money or personal relationships but the thing has been nothing but scary. Growing pains and engineering on the fly arnt soemthing I want to be thinkng about at 750' it has always surprised me how people would,make excuses for

Cypress for me. eveyone jumped on the vigil band wagon for whatever motivation whether money or personal relationships but the thing has been nothing but scary. Growing pains and engineering on the fly arnt soemthing I want to be thinkng about at 750' it has always surprised me how people would,make excuses for

3. Both Cypres and Vigil have had growing pains and problems, and both units are now reliable. The software they run is different, so you must read and understand the unit you are jumping with. See here for a full discussion:

What is the ideal wingloading for a first rig is impossible to tell without knowing how good a pilot the guy is. In most cases a Pilot 188 would not be too large for this jumper. At that wing loading he would be more conservative, but no overly so, I don't think. Of course, I am a conservative jumper myself who has recently upsized from a Pilot 150 to a 188.

I chose my canopy size following the advice of my instructors and asking around as much as I could :) I spent maybe a 3 weeks writing back and forth with the guys at Aerodyne asking everything I could possibly think of. From the fabric (went with Zp finally, not their Zpx) to the lines (I ordered Dacron, I really believe in protecting my back on the long haul) to wing loading and a few other things. I believe I have made an informed decision. I could have gone with a more "conservative" wing loading but i honestly believe 1.08 is safe enough for me. This is, after all, skydiving. Will never be 100% safe and I do want to have some fun with my canopy too.

I bought new for a few reasons: 1) I like to take care of my stuff, specially stuff my life will depend on. I can never know for sure how well the previous owner cared for the rig. Did he made it wet on a lake/beach landing? Did he left the rig out on the sun? Did his dog pee'd on it? :) 2) I want my rig to fit me. 3) I know there is a great debate in here and other places about RLS. For me it was clear, I want a skyhook. I know some people dont like it and I understand their reasons but I believe it can save my life on certain situations. I read here almost every day and I believe the last fatality in England could have been avoided with one. 4)I study hard and work hard and save my money and i can afford to buy a new rig, why wouldnt I? Im sure i can sell it when the time to downsize comes, but i mean, i can downsize to a pilot 150 with this container and then to an elliptical 150, Mamba, for example. This would mean I have enough rig for about 5 years to come should I feel the need to downsize.

I really dont think a 1.08 wingload is too much, I really asked around and most people who knows me recommended that size. I currently jump a PD navigator 200 and land it standing up no problem. I have awesome instructors and they spend time teaching me drills pretty much every jump. We practice flat turns and rear riser turns, they have me pull pretty high ( 1800 meters/ 5800 feet) and have practiced a variety of scenarios ( stalls and so on) on almost every jump. I know there are countless skills left for me to learn, but I want a canopy that I wont feel the need to change in a few months.

The Aad is where I hear the most conflicting opinions. Some people like cypres and some like vigil, and seems to me that neither of them will wanna get off their high horse. Both Vigil and Cypres have had their share of problems, just three days back cypres released a note telling you to "check status before each jump" or something like this. So much for set and forget, huh? I dont really care about the sending the cypress back for maintenance every 4 years, for this reason, the longer life of the vigil is not something I will factor on my decision. Neither are the few hundred euros difference in prices. I think both Aads are good and both are safe enough. I can not say the same about the M2 but i dont think it should be overlooked just because it is newer or cheaper. It is a very hard decision.

I know the topic has been beaten to death here on the forums and i still have about 3 months before the canopy is completed and so i have time to think.

Thank you all for answering and if you think there is something I am wrong on or I am overlooking please let me know.

Oh! I jump a full face helmet, a life of skating and a few car crashes have left me with a rather delicate nose. I wont break it again :D. Do you guys think this is ok with my low jump numbers? Im at 45 atm.\

Best regards everyone and thank you for taking the time to read/reply!

No more than 1.0 + .1/100 jumps per Brian Germain's Wingloading Never Exceed formula.

In reply to:

is impossible to tell without knowing how good a pilot the guy is.

It's easy to set an upper bound.

Landing parachutes straight into the wind in large flat grassy open spaces is not hard.

It doesn't get difficult until you have to correct problems like making a low 90 degree turn to avoid power lines for a down-wind landing on an asphalt road on the sunset load after cute chicks flashed the pilot for extra altitude, some one in the group got hypoxic and caught their foot on a seatbelt for a long climb out and long spot, and with the low light the power lines went unnoticed until the last second.

When the jumper in question hasn't been making lots of out landings with low turns to avoid obstacles we don't know how they'll do and they shouldn't be jumping a smaller canopy.

When they've consistently been doing that it shows bad judgement and they shouldn't be jumping a smaller parachute.

Following Brian's formula and the down-sizing skill pre-requisites from him and Bill von Novak (land down-wind, cross-wind, with 180 degree flat turns from 100 feet, with post-planeout carving turns, with induced speed, arrest a dive, etc.) gets jumpers to the point that they have the necessary survival skills, are likely to have the muscle memory to avoid over-controlling the canopy, and are likely to be performing at a psychological arousal level where things going wrong doesn't have them panic.

I have Brian Germain's canopy downsize chart in front of me. I will have about 65 jumps in three months, when my kit is complete. Assuming the rig i mention weighted 25 pounds, my exit weight will be somewhere around 175 pounds. In his chart, he recommends a never to exceed size of 166, so i guess im good.

In any case, I think my instructor is the one that should have the last word and he and the DZO gave the ok. I know its probably not the safest way but its not like im getting a velocity or something...I mean, its a pilot 168!!!!!! and i weight 150 pounds!!! Im the skinniest guy ever!

Buying new is great! If you can afford it then definitely do it! That way there is newer rigs for newbies to buy in the future instead of having to buy a used 1993 rig for their first rig.

Being skinny doesn't help with buying used, either. I'm 5'9" and 130lbs. When I bought my rig I couldn't tighten the leg straps down enough so I had to do some modifying in order for it to fit me properly.

Congrats, and I believe a good choice overall. Steady canopy, sizing seems to be OK. I would have gone for HMA, and maybe the ZPX for pack volume. Vigil would be my personal choice....Note on personal, no debate required.

Sizing of harness is important, and will give you that comfort.

Why is it taking 4 months? Most take 6-8weeks, which is half that time.

You'd better get used to that for just about everything in this sport. ;)

Since solid facts regarding which aad is safer seem tricky to come by, you could simply pick the brand that the majority of aad users where you jump use. That way you are less likely to miss safety bulletins and more likely to get help with your device when you need it.

I went with dacron against the advice of my instructor because ive been in rock climbing long enough to know you want a little elasticity on your ropes. I read here that hma has less elasticity than steel wire and should I mess up my packing or body position i want that little bit of extra protection against spanking. If I feel like i need to change my lines at some point, 300 usd are not thaaat bad! (A lot cheaper than a neurosurgeon for sure)

They told me in Aerodyne my rig would be ready in three months, I ordered early October and it was completed just now, about three weeks late. Im guessing the canopy will probably be delayed a few weeks too. Thats not even counting the shipping to Slovakia and the clearing customs. I guess 12 weeks is a pretty decent estimate.

Aad, Aad I guess i will keep reading and looking for info around. I have a friend who is also a Skydiver and lives really close to the Airtec factory, he also jumps in Kassa, which i think is where this guys test their stuff. I think ill drop them a line and ask them if its cool for me to visit the factory. I have a sister living in Brussels and i will probably go and visit her soon, will try and do the same with Vigil. Maybe after i visit the factory ( If they allow it) I can make my mind up

Yep. You are probably right. In any case, good things come to those who wait, and the customer service of aerodyne has been better than I could ask for, never takes them more than a few hours to reply and always kept me on the loop as to what is up with my rig and telling me when will it be ready. I really dont mind waiting a little bit (Gives me time to save for my Aad)

Cypress for me. eveyone jumped on the vigil band wagon for whatever motivation whether money or personal relationships but the thing has been nothing but scary. Growing pains and engineering on the fly arnt soemthing I want to be thinkng about at 750' it has always surprised me how people would,make excuses for

Dude congrats on your new rigthere is nothing like being totally broke but "I have a new rig!!" Awsome, you will now learn your new canopy by practicing all of your canopy control subjects each and every time you jump! I predict you will be great! And if your sizing is correct then you are not cramming too big of canopies into too small a container. And as far as "silly" to buy a new rig, there are a lot of us that don't have the money and we are very, very envious of you! AND think of the resale value!!! I LOVE THIS ARGUMENT / COMPARISON: we wouldn't share our underwear, well most of us anyways, but we borrow each others rigs???? There is nothing like the feeling of knowing just who spent last night with my rig, err are we speaking about parachutes here? Anyways...

As far as the AAD or in my case the AHD, this is a heated subject probably driven by the psychology of self delusion that this device is going to make me "bullet proof safe, that in all conditions this device will save me," there are a lot of people that spend way too much time debating the merits of the current crop of aad's that are out thereeee.

Personally if this same amount of energy was spent practicing the BSR's and positive visualization and hanging practice it would be better time spent than the endless debate about which aad is better.

MarS will be at PIA this year in Deland. They are working on approval from RI and Sunpath. Mirage and UPT have signed off on their AAD.

I'm looking forward to having a third player in the US market. I just dropped $1500 on a C2. You used to be able to get a C1 for about $1k. Dealer cost if you were buying a new rig because they wanted you to have the protection.