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Thu, 21 Mar 2019 19:49:52 +0000omeka-admin@lincoln.ac.uk (IBCC Digital Archive)Unless otherwise noted, each item is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command CentreZend_Feedhttp://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rsshttps://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collections/document/11590

Title

Malcolm Staves' Flying Boots

Description

A pair of boots issued to Malcolm Staves. The uppers could be cut away to convert them into shoes if the wearer was shot down behind enemy lines.

Publisher

IBCC Digital Archive

Rights

This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.

Coverage

Title

RAF Boot Knife

Description

Pen knife intended for cutting top away from escape flying boots, in order to convert them into shoes.

Publisher

IBCC Digital Archive

Rights

This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.

Title

Description

Creator

Publisher

IBCC Digital Archive

Rights

This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.

Coverage

Title

Interview with Louis Makens

Description

Louis Makens worked as a farm worker before the war but volunteered for aircrew. He discusses his training on Wellingtons and operations flying Stirlings with 196 Squadron including a crash landing, and glider towing. His Halifax was shot down 18/19 March 1944 on the way to Frankfurt. It was his seventh operation, but his first as a mid under gunner with 76 Squadron from RAF Holme-on-Spalding Moor. He became a prisoner of war and discusses that as an extra gunner with a new crew, he only got to know his pilot David Joseph during captivity. He describes his capture and treatment and the conditions at Stalag Luft 6, the contents of Red Cross parcels, and the prisoners' attitude to the guards. Hedescribes the conditions on the long march through Germany away from the advancing Russians. Eventually he found the advancing Allied army. After the war, he was remustered as a driver and was demobbed in 1946. He found employment with Stramit manufacturing strawboard building material.

Creator

Publisher

IBCC Digital Archive

Date

2017-01-17

Rights

This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.

Publisher

IBCC Digital Archive

Rights

This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.

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Title

Jack Warner escape pack photographs

Description

Three full face portraits, left side, head on and right side. All submitted with caption; “Three of him from his "escape pack" for use if he needed documents forging, should he be shot down”. Additional information about this item was kindly provided by the donor.

Publisher

IBCC Digital Archive

Rights

This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.

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Identifier

Coverage

Title

Evaded Capture in Denmark and letter and telegram to Roy Maddock-Lyon's parents advising him he was safe

Description

Item 1 is a statement by Roy Maddock-Lyon on the events leading to the loss of the aircraft and his evasion and return to the UK.
Item 2 is a letter from the Air Ministry advising his parents that he is safe in Sweden. It is captioned 'RAF Letter notifying Roy was in Sweden'.
Item 3 is a telegram to his mother advising that he has returned safely to the UK. It is captioned' Roy's Telegram concerning his return to the UK.'

Creator

Publisher

IBCC Digital Archive

Date

1945-02-27

Rights

This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.

Description

Creator

Publisher

IBCC Digital Archive

Date

1945-02-22

Rights

This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.

Title

Description

Item 1 is a Danish Identity card issued to Roy Maddock-Lyon under the name Peter Jensen. It includes a head and shoulders photograph.
Item 2 is a sketch map of Scandanavia and Great Britain with four routes described as 'Blockade Runners'. Captioned 'The map shows the various routes chosen for the courier flights'. and 'Copied from "Blockade Runners", Sweden's Lifeline in the Second World War.' and 'Blockade Runners Flight Path'.

Publisher

IBCC Digital Archive

Rights

This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.

Coverage

Spatial Coverage

Title

Roy Maddock-Lyon's escape Route to Sweden and a ticket from Malmo to Stockholm

Description

Item 1 - A map of Eastern Denmark annotated with the site of the crash, Charluttenlund and Falsterbo Canal.
Item 2 is a ticket from Malmo to Stockhol issued to Roy Maddock-Lyon.

Publisher

IBCC Digital Archive

Date

1945-02-20

Rights

This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.

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Temporal Coverage

Title

Dr Syrach Larsen, Peter Bredsdorff and S/W Carl of Nesko

Description

Photograph 1 is a half length portrait of a man wearing shirt and tie, seated in a chair, captioned ' Dr Syrach Larsen - Lisa's Father'.
Photograph 2 is a street scene with a curved road, lamp posts and trees, captioned 'The road outside Dr Larsen's House'.
Photograph 3 is a a modern photograph of a man with his arm round a woman, captioned 'Roy and Lisa outside the Summer House'.
Photograph 4 is three men seated on a bench. They are in uniform and are wearing steel helmets. It is captioned 'Peter Bredsorss who was a Freedom Fighter. He was also an architect from 1942 and became World famous as an 'Urban planning authority' and 'Three freedom fighters from the architect group of 'Frit Danmark' outside Randersgade Skole, 5th May '45. Peter Bredsdorff in the middle, Mogens Boertmann to the left, and Esben Klint to the right. Source: private archive.'
Photograph 5 is a small passenger ship with a single funnel. It is parked at the quayside with office buildings behind. It is captioned 'S/S Carl of Nekso, Bornholm', originally 'Carl von Linne', built 1884 in Norrkoping, Sweden, since '38 owned by A/S Det ostbornholmske Dampskibsselskab, at full steam, at the quay at Havnegade. Please note the lifeboats on the top deck. Source: S.R. No 93:93, Handels-og Sofartsmuseet pa Kronberg, Elsinore' and underneath 'The [undecipherable]'.

Publisher

IBCC Digital Archive

Date

1945-05-05

Rights

This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.

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Title

Johannes Helms and family, his house and Tollosse Railway Station

Description

Photograph 1 is of 13 members of a family standing outside their house. It is captioned 'Hr. Johannes Helms and Family (Agnete in Centre)' and 'Johannes Helms and family'.
Photograph 2 is a house, trees, fields and a telegraph pole captioned 'Johannes Helms House'.
Photograph 3 is Roy standing on the platform of a railway station. Above his head is a clock at 6:19. It is captioned 'Tollosse Railway Station where Roy Joined the train to Copenhagen and Where the SS also joined the train.'

Publisher

IBCC Digital Archive

Rights

This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.

Language

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Identifier

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Title

John Grayshan's body and the Sorensen's farmhouse

Description

Photograph 1 is of three German soldiers standing over John Grayshan's body. Behind is another body, marked by an ink arrow. It is captioned 'German Soldiers looking at Johnny'.
Photograph 2 is a close up of Johnny, captioned 'Johnny'.
Photograph 3 is Roy looking out of an upstairs window, captioned 'The bedroom window where Roy saw the German Soldiers'.
Photograph 4 is a ground level view of the Sorensen's House, captioned 'Sorensen's House'.
Photograph 5 is an oblique aerial view of the house, barn and fields. It is captioned 'Sorensen's House The barn is in the centre looking into the Courtyard'.
Photograph 6 is Roy standing in a ruined building, captioned 'Roy visiting the barn where he has hidden'.

Publisher

IBCC Digital Archive

Date

1945-02-15

Rights

This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.

Spatial Coverage

Temporal Coverage

Title

German Night Fighter Squadron, The Sorensen family and Ingrid

Description

Photograph 1 is 15 German airmen seated on a flight of steps. The main caption details how the Gruppe was sub-divided and a later caption reads 'German Night Fighter Squadron'.
Photograph 2 is a half length portrait of a man, woman and young girl, captioned 'Ejnor-Nersholt Sorensen with His Wife and Daughter Ingrid' and 'The Sorensen family'.
Photograph 3 is a half length portrait of a girl captioned 'Ingrid in 1950'.

Publisher

IBCC Digital Archive

Date

1945-04

1950

Rights

This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.

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Title

Map of Holbaek and letter to Roy Maddock-Lyon's father reporting him missing.

Description

Item 1 is a map of Holbaek with the crash site and the location of two bodies and five survivors. It is captioned 'Where the crew and plane landed south of Holbaek.'
Item 2 is a letter to Roy Maddock-Lyon's father confirming that his son is missing. It is signed by the Wing Commander of 10 Squadron.

Publisher

IBCC Digital Archive

Date

1945-02-15

Rights

This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.

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Temporal Coverage

Title

Roy Maddock-Lyon's flying log book for navigators, air bombers, air gunners and flight engineers

Description

Flying log book for navigators, air bombers, air gunners, flight engineers for Roy Maddock-Lyon, flight engineer, covering the period from 12 June 1944 to 2 May 1946. Detailing his flying training, operations flown and post war flying duties. He was stationed at, RAF St Athan, RAF Rufforth, RAF Melbourne, RAF Linton-on-Ouse and RAF Wethersfield. Aircraft flown in were, Halifax, C-47 and Oxford. He flew a total of 18 operations with 10 squadron, 2 daylight and 16 night. Targets were, Essen, Cologne, Gelsenkirchen, Munster, Sterkrade, Duisburg, Hagen, Osnabruck, Bingen, Hannover, Bohlen and baling out over Denmark on operation 18 on 14 February 1945, gardening. He evaded and returned to duty on 27 February from Sweden.

Creator

Publisher

IBCC Digital Archive

Contributor

Mike Connock

Rights

This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.

Temporal Coverage

Title

Zones of France

Silk evasion map

Description

A silk evasion map showing France, Belgium, Luxembourg, Switzerland, North-Western Italy, Southern Holland, Western Germany and North-Eastern Spain. The scale is 1:2,000,000 and it is identified as the Second Edition. There is also an inset showing formally occupied territory and heavily patrolled areas.
The reverse is blank.

Publisher

IBCC Digital Archive

Rights

This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.

Coverage

Spatial Coverage

Title

Escape compass

Description

Brass escape compass with crazed glass

Publisher

IBCC Digital Archive

Rights

This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.

Title

Description

Creator

Publisher

IBCC Digital Archive

Rights

This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.

Title

Description

Creator

Publisher

IBCC Digital Archive

Date

1944-04

Rights

This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.

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Title

Kenneth Pope's evasion photographs

Kenneth Pope and ground crew member

Description

Five photographs, three head and shoulders portraits of Kenneth Pope, one right side, one from front one looking half right, in jacket, shirt and tie captioned 'Sgt Pope',
Kenneth Pope and an airman in flying clothing with a trolley accumulator and the left hand centre section of Lancaster in the background.
Kenneth Pope in uniform with member of ground crew in overalls, left hand centre section of Lancaster in background.

Publisher

IBCC Digital Archive

Rights

This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.

Coverage

Spatial Coverage

Title

Interview with Gordon Mellor. Four

Description

Gordon Mellor successfully evaded capture when he baled out of his aircraft and landed in Germany. For several days he walked until he managed to make contact with the Belgian resistance and the Comete line who began the process of guiding him home. He was provided with false documents, a suit and taken by various routes and stayed in various safe houses. He had the experience of sharing a crowded bus with German soldiers and officers. Finally the members of Comete got Gordon across Belgium, France and into Spain from where he was then taken to Gibraltar. He flew back to the UK on his 23rd birthday. He became an instructor training other navigators. After the war Gordon returned to Chartered Surveying.

Creator

Publisher

IBCC Digital Archive

Date

2016-08-22

Contributor

Julie Williams

Rights

This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.

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Transcription

GM: Let me see.
CB: Just let me just -
GM: Yes.
CB: Introduce it. So today is, we are reconvening with Gordon and the date is the 22nd of August, in the afternoon and we are just going to pick up from the point where Gordon had been, he had met the priest who was in the area where he’d been walking and he’d taken, the priest had taken him to his own house.
GM: That is correct.
CB: So, over to you Gordon.
GM: Right. Well. The walk to the house that has just been mentioned of course was taken rather late in the day after the curfew so we didn’t meet anybody during that sort of mile, mile and a half walk but on arrival then his housekeeper was still up and we were fast approaching midnight and having received an introduction and I’m not sure what the drink was, I think possibly it was either coffee or something like that, on the other hand coffee keeps you awake but it was then off to bed in the priest’s own home and when I woke up in the morning then he was out on his duties but I was given breakfast and was told that there was one or two things that needed to be dealt with and[that the priest would be back and we would deal with it then. So he did return in due course and he wanted a certain amount of information about what I was and where had I come from and he said that I would have a visitor in the afternoon to keep me entertained. I’m not quite sure what the entertainment was supposed to be other than just talk and that happened indeed. A very nice lady turned up and introduced herself. The priest was out. The housekeeper which we have met already she may well have been somewhere in the house but she wasn’t noticeable at all and I then proceeded to tell the young lady where I’d been and where I was hoping to go which seemed to be very suitable and she made a number of approaches, asking questions and assessing in her own mind whether I was on the level so to speak or was, what also, could also be called a plant. Somebody to find out the information under the guise of being a helper. But this lady was a compatriot and she was a helper so when she went she said, ‘You’ll be hearing from us very shortly,’ and very shortly it proved to be. The priest came back and he said, ‘Well you’re off tonight. Just hold on for a little while,’ and certainly there was a gentleman turned up. I hadn’t seen him before. He hadn’t seen me at any time and we had a word or two and then I was, I must have been given a coat to cover up my battledress outfit and with that done we went out of the house, said goodbye to the priest and walked off down the road to a bus stop. That short period of time passed and a busy bus filled with quite a large number of people pulled up and we got on and couldn’t get away from the entrance at the back of the bus so we stuck there and the bus pulled away with us in a little bit of a crush but it was, it was quite comfortable. Shortly after that we then stopped outside which I would have thought was barracks because there was a little group of some five or six German soldiers obviously catching the bus for an evening out on the town and they crushed in and we being the current residents we sort of backed off as much as we could and give them room to get on. So these five or six soldiers were standing there with us standing at the back and the exit to the bus in front of these soldiers. Well we pulled away for about two hundred, three hundred yards and stopped again and it apparently it was probably the other end of the military area and two officers were waiting there and they then proceeded to get in to the rear of the bus and with the rankers were, which was between us and the officers they pushed back and it became quite a crush there. Fortunately it didn’t last overlong and eventually all of the military people got out at, I presume, a place of entertainment or whatever it was, I couldn’t be sure but suddenly there was a lot of room to stand and carry on with the journey which we did and went into a town. I struggle to think of the name of the town but it was towards the city and it was certainly more, more modern than places we had just left but we pulled up in a place where there was a square of sorts, the bus stop being in the square, and got out. So there was just the helper, the chap who was in charge, so to speak, of me and I followed him out. The bus pulled away and I was given to understand that the previous trip that they’d had a lot more soldiers before them so obviously it was a regular route. And then we walked uphill and I hadn’t got a clue where we were actually going other than it was a rise and the normal city houses on either side and suddenly he stopped. The front wall of the house, the living area and what have you was at the back of the pavement. There was no front garden or access like big doors or anything like that but there was just a single door with one or two steps up to each level because the slope of the ground had increased a bit. Banged on the door and in a very short time it was opened and we were beckoned in. I was introduced to a lady who came and the guide made his farewells and left me standing with the two ladies and he went off and I don’t ever remember seeing him again. He was just one of the helpers on the short distance duties. So I then became the guest of the two ladies and they, yes one I think one of them was American married to a German er to a, sorry to a Belgian medical man and she had lived in that area for quite a number of years so they were well known as residents. I stayed there two or three days and in that time I was taken into a, a shop in a nearby town and they had a studio sort of arrangement there. They took your photograph and you then waited a couple of hours and they had done a print and also I’m not sure where the document came from but it turned out to be sort of an identity document. And whether the chap who I had arrived with had got, had it already or whether they carried a stock of them I don’t know but from that an identity card for me with the necessary stamps and what have you was all done and transaction, money passed hands of course and in actual fact they gave me the amount of money so that I paid for it and it didn’t seem to involve the other people at all but never mind. I put it in my pocket and we left and went back to the flat where I was staying. This was obviously a necessity, you had the document with you because after the evening meal and we listened to a bit of the BBC on the radio and we then went to bed and there was a, you would be up fairly early in the morning and so it proved. I was up early and prepared to travel and they had the meal, I couldn’t tell you what the meal contained any more now but it was very satisfying and there was a knock on the door and in marched a helper. I have a job in visualising. I think it was a man, I’m pretty sure it was and he picked, picked me up and he had brought a long coat, a longish coat, overcoat style thing to put for me to put on because I was still in battledress and off we went having said goodbye and thanks to my people who had looked after me there. From there, now let me have a think. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, my recollection tells me that we went to the railway station and, where we were met by another helper and we travelled into [pause] you’d better hang on for a moment.
[machine pause]
GM: Now let’s see if we can get on.
CB: So you were getting on the train. Where were you going? That was going to Brussels.
GM: Oh wait a minute. Just a moment. This is where it gets complex. Yeah. Ok we were heading for, heading for Brussels. The question is who was I travelling with? Was it this chap or was it a woman? I think it was a chap. Well, ok. Let’s, I’m sure other people are better at it than I am. [pause] I think I’m right.
CB: Ok.
GM: I think, yes I’ll have to condense this a bit.
CB: Ok. So we’re going to Brussels.
GM: Yeah. We’re on the train heading to Brussels and I had, as a companion, somebody I hadn’t met before so we got out short of the main centre in Brussels and we then waited a short while and picked up another local train. More local perhaps than the one we had got off and we travelled the last mile or two within the city and got out. There was no, nobody there that was interested in us. We were just two people travelling and so we, [pause] Yeah. Damn it. Damn it.
CB: ‘Cause presumably you changed trains so that if somebody had been watching you.
GM: Exactly.
CB: They would have expected you to arrive and you didn’t do it.
GM: No. It, [pause] I’m sorry about this.
CB: Don’t worry.
[machine pause]
GM: Local train. This obviously was a ploy which was set up and walking down the platform we were then met by other helpers. Two I think there were together and, no, sorry it was only one, it was only one because I was travelling on my own plus the helper. Yeah, that’s right. Yes. I was handed over from one helper to another and he took me away from the chap I’d been travelling with and we passed down onto a local, I suppose we’d call it generally the underground but there wasn’t a great deal of it underground. It was a city line, I think that would be better term and went a few stations and it was indicated by my companion that we should get off at the station we were now running in to so he got up and I sort of, moments later followed him off on to the platform and down to the end of the track at this particular station. Now, we were met again and again there was a handover and shortly I found myself walking up steps from what we would term underground in London these days to ground level and we walked quite a fair way following the roads, busy city streets virtually. It wasn’t countrified at all and eventually we turned rather quickly and we banged on another door of another house and that was just opened smartly and I was being introduced to new members of a new family. So, we’re in town. You’d better switch off again.
[machine pause]
GM: It was an apartment on the third floor of, now I’m getting mixed up. This is terrible. I’m sorry. I should have done more of my revision. We may have to make a correction.
CB: Ok.
GM: We walked to a place which I was going to stay and it turned out to be a flat on the third, third floor up in the air and there was a husband and wife and I think we were a bit later than they thought. Anyhow, there also turned out to be some children and I saw them and they saw me and we did have a certain amount of chatter going. My French was pretty nil so I didn’t say much and as far as I can recall the meeting with the children was terminated and where they went after that I’m not quite sure but I stayed at this family for a few more hours into the evening until somewhere around about nine or half past when it was dark. Then I was picked up and we took a bus to another part of the city and got out. A short walk and as far as I can remember we then went up to the first floor, first or second floor, it must have been second and my leader or companion had a key and he opened the door of a flat and he introduced me into an empty space other than than the fact that it was furnished. There was nobody there and I was told about the facilities and, bedtime.
[pause]
GM: Now, I have a feeling that I have omitted an important item. Somewhere on the way through the previous places I went to I picked up a companion. I think it was a, the last one, when I first arrived in the, in the town. Anyhow, it turned out to be a Irishman. He also had been on bombing trips and he had come down and been a prisoner of war. Now, he got away from being put out to grass so to speak or put out to work. I think his name was Michael Joyce, offhand. And we were to stay with each other on occasions most of the way back home. In the future that was, of course. I can’t. Anyhow, Mike and I got on well together and eventually after a couple of days and being very well treated by the lady of the house who obviously was well connected and also well interested in helping us. We were then passed on. From here we, now did we? [pause] I’m sorry to be hesitant -
CB: That’s ok.
GM: With the, with the information.
CB: Well we can cut out the hesitations.
GM: Yes.
CB: I’ll just pause it for a mo.
GM: One moment.
[machine pause]
CB: So you and Michael Joyce became inseparable for the rest of your trip. Is that right?
GM: Not, not entirely. We were sort of companions but on occasions they could only take one person in one house or one establishment so we were parted on occasions for overnight stays and the like. It was only a matter of a day or two. I’ve got it all written down in the books.
CB: Yeah. Quite.
GM: Well certainly my memory has slipped on some of this. [pause] We’ve got about as far as Brussels haven’t we? On that train journey.
CB: Yeah. What were the people doing while you were there?
GM: Have I told you that I’ve had a change of clothes?
CB: No.
GM: Ah.
CB: Other than a coat.
GM: Yes.
CB: So what did you do with your uniform? You needed to keep that on didn’t you so you weren’t shot as a spy?
GM: Well no. Some, somewhere, it must have been the people with the young family. Anyhow, somebody had the suit, had my uniform with the intention of using the material to make something smaller presumably from it and I was given a suit, trousers and jacket in place of the uniform trousers and blouson which one wore as part of battledress. So that got rid of the clothes as far as my part, which was a major issue because whilst I was still in uniform, as you say there was a certain safety in it and then of course it was recognisable as being nothing like they were wearing themselves. Oh my goodness me.
CB: So what colour was this suit? Did they do everything in a dark colour?
GM: Yes. Medium grey. Towards the darker side perhaps than the lighter.
CB: And how would they be dressed at that time?
GM: How did they dress? Well they looked the same as everybody else that was walking streets so whatever was commonplace then was -
CB: That would be quite dark clothing would it?
GM: Well I think the men’s suitings varied from a moderate grey to being perhaps a bit darker than usual. Yes. I can’t recall seeing anything other than a sort of a business sort of appearance to people.
CB: Right. Yeah. So they’ve re-kitted you, you’re in Brussels, then what?
GM: Oh yes. Oh yes we arrived in a flat which was unoccupied. Furnished but unoccupied. And I stayed there a couple of days and also I had a companion Michael Joyce with me and we stayed there until arrangements had been made to progress forward out of Belgium where we, I didn’t know but Mike’s probably into France and so this turned out to be so. We travelled a fair distance and when we got to the border there again was a sort of a bit of a shambles there as to where we were going but it was only in our minds, Mike and mine because we weren’t, didn’t have the destination made out to us. It was best that we, the least we knew of the route was perhaps the best so eventually when we re-joined the train service we progressed from our point of staying to the border which turned out to be between Belgium and France. That was more, it was a bit scary one way or another because everybody was ordered off of the train and there was a train load of people all gathered in little groups all along the platform. Well eventually we had to progress through the customs and having had ourselves sort of identified one way or another they wanted to see a card and showed them there as everybody else seemed to be doing and it was just a sort of a sign to progress forward. So we went through the patrols either who were Belgian on one side and French on the other and the train had been pulled through, empty of course other than its operating crew and was waiting in Belgium for us to get on board which we did. I think in actual fact we did get on in the same compartment as we had previously. I have a feeling that was very likely. Anyhow, the train then sort of started off and it was well filled with passengers and we proceeded across country of course to Paris. By that time it was getting fairly well through the day and it was here that we again had a meeting party and I think there was temporarily there was a bit of a problem as to who and where we were actually going to be for sure but we left it to them and then they sort of resolved all the problems of us arriving. Now, I’ve got a feeling I’ve left something out.
CB: Well we can put it in later.
GM: Yes.
CB: So you’re leaving Brussels on the train.
GM: Left Brussels on the train, went through the border controls.
CB: Yeah.
GM: Got back on the train and arrived in Paris. There we were met and at this point after a, yes, a chat so to speak which was done in a sort of low voice and as far away from other people as possible Mike was then taken away with one of Comete’s people and leaving me for somebody else. In this particular case a local man was, had been invited to do this part of it and we went off of the station through a number of roads to another point which, now, I’m not sure whether that came from –
CB: We’ll stop there for a mo.
CB: Back on this. So the pilot, where is the pilot sitting? Up on the front left.
GM: Front left.
CB: Yeah.
GM: Where the window -
CB: Yes. The glazed area. Yeah
GM: Yes. That’s right.
CB: Then there are steps -
GM: Down.
CB: To where?
GM: To a lower level.
CB: Right.
GM: And in that, in that lower level I thought there were three positions.
CB: Ok.
GM: I thought, under the pilot there was a radio operator and in front of him underneath the, virtually underneath where the pilot’s level.
CB: Yes.
GM: There was the navigator.
CB: Yeah. With a table.
GM: With a table and I thought in front of that there was a front gunner.
CB: Yeah.
GM: Now up, behind the pilot there’s got to be a flight engineer.
CB: That’s it. And under the front gunner is the position for bomb aiming. Is that right?
GM: Yes. Ah.
CB: So the bomb aimer was also the front gunner in the Halifax. Is that right?
GM: That worries me a bit.
CB: Ok.
GM: Isn’t this daft? You live with it.
CB: Yeah. Second nature wasn’t it?
GM: And you remember it for a half a century or more.
CB: Yes. So you said the flight engineer is behind the pilot. Right. And he can communicate directly with the pilot as necessary. Then further back you have two other positions.
[pause]
CB: The mid upper gunner. Is that right? And the rear gunner.
GM: Yes. That is evident I think from the outside photos.
CB: Yes.
GM: I’m with you.
CB: Yeah. So we were just trying to resolve the idea of how a second pilot operation might work. Sometimes bomb aimers did have pilot training. Some of them were qualified pilots and qualified navigators.
[pause]
GM: There was, it seems a number of the local changes.
CB: Yeah.
GM: From one particular unit to one somewhere else.
CB: Yeah.
GM: But at the same level.
CB: Yeah.
GM: Well yeah I can believe that.
CB: Ok.
GM: So –
[machine pause]
GM: Sort of set up in the nose of a Halifax.
CB: Was it?
GM: On, on certain mark numbers I imagine.
CB: So as the navigator how often did you have to move from your seat and why?
GM: Good question. Good question. I thought I’d got a sectional display somewhere in the books there with, of the crew positions.
CB: Ok. We’ll look at that. But in practical terms on an operation how often would you actually leave your seat until you had to, and go to the, look at the plumbing.
GM: One would certainly, for certain one would be out of position during take-off and landing.
CB: So you had a specific position to sit in for take-off and landing.
GM: Yes. I think -
CB: And where would that be?
GM: I imagine, I did it dozens and dozens of times, [pause] in the body of the aircraft.
CB: Right. Behind the pilot and the flight engineer.
GM: Yes. Yes, because we also got in and out of the aircraft at that level.
CB: Right.
GM: At certain times or on occasions we got in through the nose.
CB: Did you? Right.
GM: Now this would have been inconvenient.
CB: Yeah.
GM: Inconvenient at the time preparing to take off.
CB: Yeah.
GM: Because where the navigator sat was on a hatch.
CB: Ah.
GM: And that hatch you could pull up and get in and out so that when you made an emergency departure the navigator collapsed his seat back into position on the wall.
CB: Yeah.
GM: The table was here.
CB: Yes. In front of him.
GM: Yeah you took up the seat and dropped it out of the hole and followed it.
CB: Right. So in the sequence of escape in an aircraft in an event of -
GM: Yes.
CB: Needing to abandon.
GM: Yes.
CB: What was the escape sequence for the crew?
GM: Pilot said, ‘Prepare to leave the aircraft,’ and then I would get up, shove the drawings, the plans and all of the maps into, we had an incinerator tube I seem to remember.
CB: Oh.
GM: You could put them in, you could roll up the paper up, put it in, press the button and the electricity would burn whatever you put in.
CB: Oh really. Right.
GM: That was. That was close at hand so that it could be used in an emergency if you had the time or the documents that needed it. Certainly, when it was said, ‘Abandon the aircraft,’ then we would already have been in the, an open situation where you didn’t have to lift up any more bits of floor or anything like that. The way out was already prepared.
CB: Right.
GM: So when they said, ‘Abandon the aircraft,’ the navigator was, as far as I know, the first to go out through the front hole.
CB: Ok.
GM: Because he was, had been sitting on it.
CB: Yeah. Right.
GM: And you were in the way.
CB: Yes. Followed by?
GM: Oh the, now was it the radio operator that was next to him at that level? He would go out and then the second pilot. Now, at the rear of the aircraft of course there also was access and -
CB: Yeah.
GM: Place in the floor and you went out towards, on the, yes if you, with your back to the tail then you would go out on the left hand side. Drop out of that hole which was also was used as an entrance in ordinary usage time.
CB: Right. So you climbed in through the floor both at the front and the back.
GM: Indeed.
CB: Right. Ok.
GM: Well certainly at the rear it was more of a hatch because part of the side came away as well so it made the opening more easy to use.
CB: Right.
GM: But certainly the departure point was there.
CB: So how did the rear gunner get out?
GM: Well as far as I’ve always known it was standard for them to turn the turret so that his back was in line with the side of the aircraft. In other words -
CB: Right.
GM: The hole was back here
CB: Yeah
GM: And as far as I can remember the, he went out the two hatches on the, in the back of the turret.
CB: Yeah.
GM: I don’t know whether they were disposable or not but I think they certainly would open up.
CB: Yeah.
GM: And he would go backwards with his parachute on his chest.
CB: Oh did he? He had to pick up his parachute first did he or was he wearing it all the time?
GM: That raises a question doesn’t it as to the type of parachute he used.
CB: Because on the Lancaster he had to reach back into the body -
GM: Yes.
CB: Into the fuselage.
GM: Yes.
CB: To pick it up. Did he have to do the same on a Halifax or did he sit on the parachute?
GM: I think he had to get, do the same in the Halifax as he did in the Lancaster.
CB: Did he? Right.
GM: That is my impression. Now, [pause] I didn’t fly in Lancasters so –
CB: No.
GM: I’m only going with what I’ve been told but I think where possible there was a storage spot for each crew person.
CB: Yeah.
GM: Close to hand so he could get hold of his parachute himself and clip it on his chest.
CB: So you’re the navigator in the front of the aircraft.
GM: Yes.
CB: You’ve got a folding table because –
GM: Yeah.
CB: You’ve got map work to do.
GM: Yes. A collapsible one. Yeah.
CB: Where is your parachute? You’re not sitting on it are you?
GM: It’s close by.
CB: Right.
GM: Because one had to put it on.
CB: Yeah. So you’re not sitting on it.
GM: And I put it on my chest.
CB: Yeah. So on this fateful day you first put on your parachute did you? And then open the hatch, fold your table, your seat and open the hatch. Was that the sequence?
GM: The only thing that was foldable was my seat.
CB: Right.
GM: And that came out on a collapsible sort of frame -
CB: Yeah.
GM: Or unit from the side of the aircraft.
CB: Right.
GM: The hole was in the floor.
CB: Yes.
GM: Not anywhere else.
CB: Right.
GM: So you sort of went up and down on the floor in that part of the aircraft. I think that’s it.
CB: Yeah. That’s good. So we’ll stop just for a mo.
GM: Yeah.
[machine pause]
GM: The place where I landed.
CB: We’re talking about meeting Germans.
GM: Yes.
CB: Yeah.
GM: Yes. Just in general, no need to record it.
CB: In general terms.
GM: Yes just general terms. So I did come across them on most parts of my travelling.
CB: Yeah. You came across Germans.
GM: Yes.
CB: Yeah.
GM: Yes. Whilst we were staying, yes while I was staying in Paris then they were all over the place.
CB: Right.
GM: Even if I was out on a walk with one of the French people. Oh what was his name? Doesn’t matter.
CB: Yeah.
GM: The residents in the city. Yes he took me out once or twice and we walked streets and what have you and walked up the Champs-Elysees and to some of the other recognised spots and also into a museum and that was, that can all be detailed if you want it at the time and yes but, this was when we stayed in the flat which was unoccupied by anybody else.
CB: Yeah.
GM: But that was short. We got, we did get farmed out to people and the man was very useful and we eventually picked up an early morning train in Paris heading south.
CB: Right.
GM: And the intention was to get to, oh what’s the name of the town? Down close to the Pyrenees.
CB: Yeah. Bordeaux?
GM: Yes. On the way through there yes. And I think, was it St Jean de Luz we stayed in?
CB: Right.
GM: Or lived in. Possibly so. Having got that far then the party of other, a couple or three people I think we made something like four people together started off one afternoon. That’s not quite true I think we had a train journey. Anyhow, we started off and we climbed up in to the Pyrenees and we did it, some bizarre, we did this during part of this during daylight of course and overnight we went up and down up and down and we crossed the actual border which was the centre of the Bidasoa, whatever its pronunciation is, which was a river and from that position we climbed up to a height but on this time on the south banks of the river rather than where we came down which was on the north ones and eventually we dropped down the Pyrenees slopes to the rather level sort of ground which was in Spain. From Spain of course then having sort of made our presence known then the embassy took over and arranged the transfer of the, I think there was three of us to be taken to the capital and that was all done in one long run. I’m not sure how many hours it took but it seemed to be quite a long way and we stayed in the embassy.
CB: It looks as though you went to Saint Sebastian.
GM: Yes.
CB: With Bernard. And then you went to the British consulate in Bilbao who then arranged for you to go Madrid two hundred and fifty miles away.
GM: Very likely. I’m not, I can’t remember how many days we stayed there. We stayed with a couple in their flat in Spain.
CB: Right.
GM: Probably two nights at the most. I could probably check it and as we say we did this long run down to the embassy in Madrid which is, then, did we actually stay there? Yes they did have quarters there and we became companions of some people who were already on the run so to speak.
CB: Yes.
GM: And they were flown away. There was, there was some army people around as well.
CB: Right.
GM: They got away and eventually it became our turn and in the early evening of the last day of October.
CB: 1942.
GM: ’42, yes. We got on to a train and we did at some point that evening we had a meal. Now I’m trying to visualise exactly where we were. Whether we were in the train or other? Don’t remember much. Anyhow, I know we picked up a separate train from previously which run us down overnight to Madrid and, I got that wrong.
CB: Gibraltar.
GM: From, from, this was from Madrid to Gibraltar. Yes.
CB: Yes.
GM: Yes. You’re right. Quite right.
CB: The overnight train.
GM: Overnight train and we were picked up and met at our destination and we were then, yes. We went, we then went down by train also to Gibraltar. We got out on the Spanish side and I think we had a, had the train across on the railway line which ran through Spain across at Gibraltar and through to what was, I think, the only station in Gibraltar. Perhaps there were two train stops. Certainly there was a terminus in the, in the more or less centre of -
CB: Right.
GM: That’s right. I suppose it’s an island isn’t it?
CB: No it isn’t. It’s a -
GM: Yeah. Anyhow, it was a satisfactory termination of the effort to pass across all the necessary spaces to reach Gib and catch the boat on the convenient occasion for us we just waited until we were called but it was only a couple, a couple of nights as far as I can recall.
CB: To be returned to Britain.
GM: Yes.
CB: Yeah.
GM: We then flew back to the UK.
CB: What did you fly in?
GM: Was it a Dakota?
CB: Yeah. When -
GM: I think so.
CB: When you were in Madrid you were in the embassy.
GM: Yes.
CB: What did the air attaché have to say?
GM: ‘Welcome’ [laughs] and he was more interested in identifying us so that he could notify the ongoing people that we were there having escaped and I presume he was he was looking for instructions as to how to get us from Gibraltar to the UK which he did very successfully because we, we flew overnight and landed in Portreath in the early light hours of the following day which was the 1st of November and we had a brief passage through customs in Cornwall and we then went back to the same plane which flew up to, now, somewhere, just west of London?
CB: Northolt. No?
GM: I think not.
CB: Ok I’ll stop there a mo.
[machine pause]
CB: It went to Aldermaston did it?
GM: Possibly. I’ve got it written down.
CB: Yeah. I’ve got it. I’ve got Aldermaston here.
GM: You’ve got Aldermaston there.
CB: Yeah.
GM: Well that’s fair enough.
CB: Yeah.
GM: And there we arrived just after normal meal time. I think more or less 1 o’clock, 2 o’clock in the day and we were fed and then we were transferred to London and we were taken to the headquarters. Now what was the name of the street? Oh my memory is getting terrible.
CB: According to this you went -
GM: Yes, go on.
CB: The Grand Central Hotel.
GM: Could well be.
CB: In Marylebone.
GM: Marylebone. Correct. Yes.
CB: Which was the London transit camp.
GM: Yes. That’s right. And we were greeted by I don’t know if he was a flight sergeant or whether he was a warrant officer. I don’t even know whether there was an officer on duty then. Anyhow, the chap that met us as we walked in wanted to know who we were, what we were and where we, our homes were which was the most interesting and when I said it was Wembley and there we were at Baker Street and it’s just down the other end of the line so to speak. So he said, ‘You can go home till tomorrow. Be back here at,- ’ I wasn’t sure what the time was. 9 o’clock I think and a couple of the other people who had come over with us they were also given instructions but my Irish companion he was bedded at the hotel there. He hadn’t got any relatives close enough to be of any use. So I went home. You can imagine the results but it so happened that it was still the 1st of November and it was still my birthday.
CB: And how old were you that day?
GM: Twenty three.
CB: Right.
GM: I would think.
CB: Yeah.
GM: Twenty three. Yes.
CB: Now what were you wearing? Had you got RAF clothing again or -
GM: Ah.
CB: Because in your escape through France what were you wearing in the end? Were you in a suit all the way of some kind, provided, or were you -
GM: Yes.
CB: What were you -
GM: That suit materialised while I was still in Belgium I think it was.
CB: Right.
GM: And they took, yes, somebody had yes somebody had my RAF blouson and trousers of a, in a typical greeny colour. Or it was a grey green colour or whatever battle dress was made of. I lost that but instead of that of course I got a moderately fitting suit which I still had on when I got home and occasionally I used afterwards and as I say we got shot down on what was it, about somewhere about the 4th of October and I walked in on the 1st of November.
CB: Were they expecting you to arrive? Had you forewarned them?
GM: Yes. My mum, I’d already sent a telegram from Gibraltar home and she was notified by Air Ministry as well ‘cause they were well up on their knowledge of where we were.
CB: Yeah.
GM: There’s no doubt about that.
CB: Right. Now, this companion of yours was he from another squadron or was he from something completely different?
GM: What was his name? The Irishman?
CB: Yeah.
GM: No. We, we only met in extremis so to speak on the way down to Gibraltar. In actual fact I think it was somewhere shortly after Paris or whatever. Anyhow, it was fairly early on that I met Michael Joyce. That was his name.
CB: Yeah.
GM: And we stayed together to a degree. Sometimes apart sometimes in the same buildings and we certainly got down to Gibraltar together and let’s see, what was his rank? Flight sergeant. I was a flight sergeant at the time. Yes.
CB: What crew member was he?
GM: Ah you ask some nasty questions my friend.
CB: I know. It’s bad isn’t it?
GM: Yes.
CB: But you get another sweet if you answer correctly.
GM: What was his job?
CB: He wasn’t a flight engineer like you was he?
GM: I was a navigator.
CB: Sorry, a navigator like you.
GM: No. Mike. [pause] Oh my goodness me. That’s a rotten question.
CB: Yes. I’ll give you a different one. In the way down you’re doing everything together so what are your feelings as you are on the escape route and you’re together in hostile territory? What did you feel about that?
GM: I’m not entirely sure. I was, I was always happy to tackle things as a single person but it, when we had to do things together then I was quite willing to adapt to those conditions. So I don’t think it made much, made much of an impression on me whether I was working with him or he was acting on his own or I was acting on my own. I think both of us were fairly quick on adapting to changing circumstances.
CB: Yeah.
GM: It didn’t worry me at all to be, to operate on my own. I did quite a bit of walking from one place to another and in the early days of course I did the first three or four nights as a single figure.
CB: Yes. So you get over the Pyrenees. You’re out of immediate German danger. How did you feel about that? What sort of feeling did you have?
GM: Oh. Yeah.
CB: When you both got over in to Spain.
GM: Oh gave a sort of heartfelt but quiet sort of, ‘Yes. This is it. You made it.’
CB: Yeah.
GM: There was a certain exultation on my part of having a sort of a smooth way across Europe and I fooled the Germans at it at the same time.
CB: So was it a mixture of triumph and relief or something different?
GM: Yeah. Well the exact moment that one got over was rather obscure as to exactly where it was that it was the river the Bidasoa the that we had to cross down the valley which is the boundary between Spain and France so in actual fact having got across that river then one was technically in Belgium er not Belgium -
CB: Spain.
GM: Spain.
CB: Yeah.
GM: Yeah. The Pyrenees were scattered with people one way or another who seemed to have a reason for being there and I don’t think at the time we realised exactly when we could say when we were in one country or the other. It was just a continuation across, across the high ground.
CB: And of course Spain was a fascist country then so how was it -
GM: We rather thought they might have been, yeah. I would have thought they might have tried to please the German presence.
CB: Yeah.
GM: Actually I think amongst a certain range of people it was just the reverse but there we are.
CB: Because it was Basque country there of course.
GM: Indeed. Yes.
CB: So that was anti-establishment wasn’t it?
GM: Yes.
CB: Still is.
GM: Yes. I imagine so. I haven’t been over there for years now but I have made several trips there since the wartime period.
CB: So just moving on from there you’re back home, you’ve been told to report the next morning from Wembley back to the hotel.
GM: Yes indeed.
CB: In Marylebone.
GM: That is correct.
CB: So then what?
GM: We were, there was a special interview I think, that latter part of that day to acquaint us with our situation and answer questions and to only be told that with the amount of knowledge that we carried with ourselves and people in the other countries who were trying to help us that we sort of them owed them a debt, general impression, which I agreed with and then to sort of map out what we would do for the remainder of the, our membership of the RAF and I sort of was aware of some of the ways in which I could proceed. The thing is they said, ‘You can’t go back on ops again with the amount of knowledge that you have of the help that you found available.’ They didn’t say for how long. I got the impression that it was, yes for a period anyhow but I was aware that there was what they called the SN course, The staff navigators course at, up in the Midlands and so I said, ‘Well if we’re going to be posted to do something then I’d like to do that course.’ It was on, a rather special course on navigation and the like so they said, ‘Right,’ and then they said, ‘Of course that is a bit in the future. We’ve already got some people ahead of you on the list but we’ll do it as soon as you can.’ And in the June of ’43, June of ‘43 which was, let’s see, seven, eight or nine months wait then I was posted up into Scotland and one or two other places and in July ‘43 then got married and on the, just before that happened I found out that I was going to be posted from the aerodrome near [pause] Oh God.
CB: Which part of the country?
GM: Wales.
CB: Oh right. Not St Athan.
GM: No. No. More or less the border between England and, er England, the border, oh this is stupid.
CB: So what purpose was this particular posting?
GM: Oh to be on the teaching staff of the navigation.
CB: Right.
GM: Crikey.
CB: Ok. Well we’ll pick that up in a mo. So then before you started you were then on leave to get married were you?
GM: Yes. Yes. Yes
CB: Where did you go for your honeymoon?
GM: Oh West Wales. As far west as you can get.
CB: The Gower Peninsula.
GM: Not far from it. Yes, the bay goes up in a great big sweep.
CB: Oh Cardigan Bay.
GM: Cardigan Bay up at the top.
CB: Not Aberystwyth.
GM: Yes.
CB: Right.
GM: Yes. Which is a university town.
CB: Yeah.
GM: The university buildings were to agree to be available for the lecturers and what have you that what I was doing was available so after, after that and we got married, we went up north to the Central Navigation School or whatever they called it, at, yes [pause] oh I’m an idiot.
CB: Was that in Scotland or was it in northern England?
[pause]
CB: Ok. We’ll look that one up as well. So at the Central Navigation School that’s when you did your specialist navigation course. Was it?
GM: SN course, yes.
CB: Yes.
GM: Yes, indeed.
CB: Which lasted how long?
GM: Three months.
CB: How many?
GM: Three.
CB: Three months.
GM: Three months.
CB: Right.
GM: And -
CB: So you went to Cranage. Cranage was the -
GM: Yes.
CB: Central Navigation School.
GM: Yes. Indeed.
CB: But it was a three months course.
GM: That’s right.
CB: And then what?
GM: No. That isn’t right. That’s not right. So when did Aberystwyth come in on it?
CB: When you went on honeymoon.
GM: Yes it did. But [pause] I’m an idiot.
[Machine pause]
CB: Just while we, right so after you finished at Cranage on your navigation course you said you went to Wigtown.
GM: Yes.
CB: Which is Galloway.
GM: Yes.
CB: What were you doing there?
GM: That’s where I was part of the lecturing staff and also I spent more time on the arranging of the exercises and what have you.
CB: Right.
GM: There was some lecturing in it but it was mainly to get these chaps airborne.
CB: Yes.
GM: Doing the exercises. So, yes I rather rated as part of the overall staff rather than
CB: Yeah.
GM: Just one particular position.
CB: And how long did you stay there?
GM: Until a short period after war was terminated.
CB: Right.
GM: I think the period was, the immediate period was followed by the sending of military people, British military people to Japan.
CB: Yeah. Tiger Force.
GM: Yes. Yes. I think that took over. They were and then there was in the appropriate time and there was a cessation there and peace was declared so to speak.
CB: August ’45. So -
GM: Yes. So it was a couple of years I had up in -
CB: Yes
GM: Scotland generally.
CB: So with the end of hostilities in World War 2 what happened next for you?
GM: Well, Wigtown, the airfield and what have you there was closed down and I was posted to somewhere in Norfolk.
CB: Which part of Norfolk?
GM: Cardigan Bay is it? No. Wait a minute. Which is Cardigan Bay?
CB: No. That’s in West Wales.
GM: Oh that’s not it. On the east coast.
CB: You don’t mean Coltishall do you?
GM: No. [pause]
CB: We’ll stop a mo.
[machine pause]
CB: So you went to Norfolk with the closure of Wigtown because the war had ended and what did you do there?
GM: Well previously while I was at the aerodrome in Scotland -
CB: Yeah.
GM: My rank had gone up to warrant officer and the chap I was working with said, ‘You can do better than this,’ so I applied for a commission and it was then, that was, that was somebody else’s suggestion and I was supported by the senior officer at -
CB: At Wigtown.
GM: Yes. And I had the necessary introductions and interviews and I was commissioned. PO. And that was early in that two year stay up in Scotland. By the time I came down to after the closure of the camp there and went to the one that we had just been immediately talking about in -
CB: In Norfolk. Yeah.
GM: The Norfolk area. Yes. And I finished up a flight lieutenant.
CB: What was your role there? Were you teaching navigation in Norfolk or were you planning ops or what were you doing?
GM: Oh what did we do? The last weeks. Yes. Oh yes I’d made a study to a fair extent on training for crews on, as far as practical exercises were concerned on navigation so we used to have the whole course or several courses that were run by the station and they used to do exercises on the ground, navigation exercises and we’d feed them with information as to factors and we sort of wrote a scenario or set of circumstances to give the people on the ground the opportunity to resolve their problem, navigational problems and so in actual fact they did a flying exercise except that it was a set procedure on the, on the ground. Sounds a bit rummy but we were able to produce conditions and information so that they could do the navigation exercise in addition to having to do it in the air. I mean there was a big demand for air, air time and part of that air time was giving groups of people, they were full courses in actual fact. These exercises which they could do safely to start with on the ground and then they practised as far as I could tell, at other postings in, with aircraft flying.
CB: Were these squadrons that you were teaching or special courses for navigation?
GM: They were navigational courses.
CB: Right.
GM: You had, I don’t suppose one had more than twenty people in any one course and you would have them for a half day and we had a number of, set number of exercises planned out and we provided as much information that we would expect them to be able to receive during the, an actual flight. So it was an exercise modelled on a flying exercise and the actual airborne flying was taken away and so you fed the course in the half day all the necessary factors that they would need to do if they were doing it in the air.
CB: So they would then go and fly. What aircraft were they flying? I mean were they Lancs?
GM: Ansons I think.
CB: Ansons. Right.
GM: Yes. A good old workhorse that aircraft.
CB: Yeah. With a view to going on to, these were all navigators rather than pilots.
GM: Oh yes. They were all navigators. Yes. They took the course. They went through the varying exercises as we could plan them at ground level.
CB: Right.
GM: And so they got procedures to be familiar with and then they, when they left us they went on a course which tested their application to those features.
CB: Right. So you were doing that for a while. When were you demobbed and where?
GM: I was demobbed as such from Uxbridge and close by.
CB: Did you apply for it?
GM: That’s only just –
CB: Or were you -
GM: No. No
CB: Suddenly told.
GM: No. When we were posted down from Scotland earlier the previous year and we did a job closer down in Norfolk when ones calling up papers came through and gave you a place to take your demob. So you -
CB: Right.
GM: Went down to that place at the declared time and they -
CB: So that’s May 1946.
GM: And gave you the big heave ho.
CB: May 1946.
GM: Yeah.
CB: Now –
GM: Was it May? Was it?
CB: 16th
GM: It was April or May.
CB: Yeah. 16th of May 1946
GM: Yes.
CB: According to that note.
GM: Well that is maybe including -
CB: Terminal leave.
GM: Terminal leave.
CB: Yeah.
GM: And your departure date was the end of that terminal leave.
CB: Yeah. So how did you feel about that after all the rigours of what you’d been through? Flying and escaping.
GM: Feel about it. No. I wasn’t an enthusiast but I thought I should have hated not to have not been part of it. Well I started with navigation and the like. I liked to know where I was and I liked to know where I was going and I think that was a fair guiding light to me pushing in certain directions but having had a very close brush with being terminated whilst I was in Bomber Command I was very thankful to be able to do my bit to progress the hostilities in whichever way they gave me the access to.
CB: You explained that they told you couldn’t go back on to ops. How did you feel about that?
GM: I don’t think anybody said that you can’t, eventually. I got the impression that it was not going to happen. The decision wasn’t mine it was theirs.
[phone ringing]
GM: Oh excuse me a minute.
CB: Yeah.
GM: I’d better find out what it is.
[machine paused]
CB: So you were married in the war.
GM: Yes.
CB: Gordon.
GM: Yes.
CB: And what prompted you to do it during the war and not wait until the end?
GM: Well in nineteen, let me start it was a bit earlier than that.
CB: Ok.
GM: I went to school with a chap and we were more or less together for most of the, that period of schooling to technical college.
CB: Yeah.
GM: And we continued to be friends. Our families got to know each other. I met his sister who was a couple of years older than him.
CB: Yeah.
GM: And she was after, after the war was declared, oh I would say that she was a ballet dancer and -
CB: Yes.
GM: She was in Italy at the time of the declaration of war so she had to get back to the UK. I was in and out of their house a fair bit until we got called up. I’d previously tried to get in to the RAF reserve, volunteer reserve but attending evening classes and things like that four nights a week and the result that I was not particularly fit so I was referred and told to get fit while working five and a half days a week and also doing four evenings of evening classes. It was taking a bit of a long time. So war was declared and the lady in question got herself, with her friends back from Italy to the UK. I got to know her pretty well during the earlier lifetime and so I suppose whenever I came down on leave then we saw each other and in 1943 after my travels we got married in the July ‘43. What point are we trying to make?
CB: Well we’re talking about how you got married in the war.
GM: Oh.
CB: When some people delayed getting married.
GM: Yes. Yes. I can, I can imagine that but also I thought we don’t know how long this is going to be going on.
CB: Right.
GM: I mean we were living so to speak in the forces we were living from day to day.
CB: Yes.
GM: On, as a basis, whether if you were on active service or were in a similar but not so dangerous situation whatever it was, you were still occupied and we didn’t want to wait.
CB: No.
GM: For an unspecified period so we got married in the July ‘43. She was in London in a show and with Tommy Handley and that group of people and so she decided that we’d get married.
CB: Yeah.
GM: So when I got posted up to Scotland then she said, ‘Right. I’m coming up too.’ And we, I got permission to live out and she came up and there was always the chance that she could go back and join another show. Tommy, Tommy Handley was a considerable friend of hers so it ended very happily on the whole. The only problem was medical but that’s not part of the news I spread around.
CB: No. No.
GM: But it was a considerable problem. Considerable problem. After the wartime period when both David and, who died now and Paul, my, who is my remaining son. Yes we were very happy to get two children and but it was a difficult situation. Sort of a, I think she had two or three other pregnancies which didn’t mature.
CB: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. When did she pass away?
GM: August 1999.
CB: Gosh. A long time ago.
GM: Well, last century.
CB: Yes.
GM: Yeah. No. She was, she was in her nineties anyhow. So -
CB: After the war what did you do then?
GM: Oh well -
CB: You were demobbed so now what?
GM: Yes. I was demobbed I’d already, during the leave, made contact with the chartered surveyors that I was working for in the pre-war period and so I went back there. The wages were not brilliant and I don’t suppose we had a vast amount of savings but we had savings anyhow so instead, working up in Norfolk with the air force my term had come so I got the demob instructions and I took them. Money being what it is well I’m being paid by the air force for my demob my leave period so I had a week’s leave and we got back home. We stayed with my mother. She was living on her own. My father had died during the period of the war and so we started living together there. We’d been living together in various places around the country when, between marriage and the war finishing which was about two years I suppose.
CB: They wouldn’t pay the marriage allowance would they? The air force allowance during the war because you were underage. Under twenty five in other words.
GM: Yes. No. No. Do you know I haven’t really considered the, what happened from the money point of view. We seemed to be, had enough money.
CB: Comfortable.
GM: Comfortable yes. Comfortable. During that period that I was up in Scotland and what have you because at most of that time then we lived together and when I was demobbed then as I say we were living together with, at my mother’s house even though my wife’s parents only lived a ten minute walk away.
CB: Oh right.
GM: So my old school chum was now a brother in law I suppose. Yes.
CB: Yes.
GM: Yes. Well he was brilliant at his job. He was a scientist -
CB: Oh.
GM: From the Natural History Museum.
CB: Oh.
GM: And that he continued as his career until he died.
CB: So you went back to being a surveyor.
GM: Yeah.
CB: What did you, how did that progress for you? Did you stay with your original employers or did you move to something different?
GM: Well I stayed with them and the requirements were that I became a chartered surveyor.
CB: Yeah.
GM: So I started, or had already started the course at Regent Street Polytechnic and I say I was there for varying periods. I think the most I ever spent was four, four nights a week in classes. It’s a bit misty some of those periods but I stayed there and took the exams with the Royal Institute of Chartered Surveyors and the intermediate got through and got to the finals and was and I had an offer to work for somebody else which was London County Council.
CB: Right.
GM: I had applied for a job there. Mainly because the people that were under training at that time of course were the people I’d met on courses elsewhere and I stayed there until, yes, until I got my qualifications and then I changed. Mainly it was the people I knew at Regent Street Polytechnic became my sort of friends and so the job became available which I applied for and got and I was with friends virtually straight away which was socially was yes, an advantage.
CB: So you stayed with London County Council until retirement did you?
GM: That is so.
CB: And when did you retire?
GM: Oh what a horrible question to ask. I was sixty four and I had the sum of that year so now -
CB: I’ve got the answer to that in here. So that was 1973.
GM: Was it? Ok. Right. Well yes I came out in the in the summer of ‘73 and -
CB: Just before your birthday did you?
GM: Something like that.
CB: Yeah.
GM: Yes.
CB: And did you then pick up other things in your retirement or did you have a quiet time?
GM: No. Evening classes I say were, absorbed a lot of my spare time but I became qualified became a chartered surveyor and also I was working for London County Council when the results came out so I was quite happy with that. I was working with people I knew and yes, and in a job which I enjoyed and the outcome was I think fairly reasonable and in my favour.
CB: Yeah. What I meant was after an active life when you come to retirement there can be a vacuum and I wonder what you picked up in your retirement you see.
GM: So, let’s see.
CB: Hobbies.
GM: Yes I I’d been a keen photographer for a long time. I didn’t do it professionally. I did some pictures for people now and again but it was just on a friendly basis and I, yeah, retirement. Oh yes at that time after I finished working for the quantity surveyors as such they from time to time wanted help for additional work. They had regular staff but sometimes the demands on the staff exceeded their people that were available to do it.
CB: Their capacity.
GM: Yeah.
CB: Yeah.
GM: So on occasion I worked for the same people, on the same as my job and I got paid for my professional help. This went on until demand diminished so I didn’t kill my pleasures of the time with it but I certainly, I fitted it all in.
CB: Yeah. Now having escaped by parachute from an aeroplane that made you a member of the Caterpillar Club. How did that fit into your life as an association?
GM: Well now and again there were events which attracted me I suppose. I was just thinking what else was. Oh yes. The boys were growing up. We’d had two children and I became interested in the scouting movement and the boys were gradually being absorbed in to that movement and I was asked to, if I’d become one of the management committee or whatever it was of the scouting movement. We had a sort of family connection with the movement and I sort of became part of the local troops and so we took part in some of the administration that was related to our area. Yes. It was a, it was a pleasurable time and it occupied a number of events and both the boys were keen scouters so I think it was a reasonable changeover and still gave you that sensation of being wanted.
CB: Yeah. Now in a way, for other people looking in, one of the most cataclysmic times of your life was being shot down and then escaping.
GM: Oh yes been a big factor.
CB: How did you then link which you alluded to earlier with the people who’d helped you return to Britain successfully?
GM: Ah. Well there was an organisation which was set up, I suppose, known as the RAF Escaping Society and I think that was set up around about the end of the war or shortly afterwards and various meetings were attended. Yes. One sort of kept an, kept an interest so that it was like other military or semi military organisations. You had the regular sort of programmes throughout the year of remembering the people of your life, in the past and like any of these organisations like the British Legion which is more or less run on those styles so you had while you were working on civilian occupations then you also maintained the friendships and the relationships as you had done for the six years in the war with other people who were doing the same job as yourself.
CB: Yeah. This is how you link with Air Commodore Charles Clarke?
GM: Yes. I know him and yeah I respect him and we have met from time to time but we’re not social friends.
CB: Right.
GM: As such.
CB: No.
GM: No. He’s Charles Clark. I’m Gordon Mellor and we both live in different areas. We see little of each other but we are sociable with each other and this applies to quite a lot of other people who were in the air force.
CB: Indeed.
GM: You maintain the sort of interest as much as possible but it’s got to take its place in your life.
CB: What about 103 Squadron Association. Was that active?
GM: Yes. Still is. This coming weekend I’m going up there. I am, am I the president? I think I’m the president of the members of the Association. I seem to be in that sort of role. Yes.
CB: The driving force there.
GM: Yes. I think so. Somewhere on the papers it shows. Yes.
CB: Ok.
GM: I’m the President. Yeah.
CB: Good.
GM: Yes and I think one stays there until you -
CB: You feel you’ve had enough.
GM: Fade away.
CB: Yeah.
GM: I’m not even sure you can retire but you never know.
CB: Well there are a number of active members still on all these things?
CB: Yes.
GM: Yeah. They are going down of course in number.
CB: Yeah. Yeah.
GM: There’s a number who are, yes. Now they’re getting on quite well. Many of us are in our ninetieth or thereabouts. You have to have been to have been in the wartime period.
CB: Yes. Exactly. Gordon Mellor. Thank you very much indeed. Really interesting.
GM: Thank you for coming. Mucked it up to a certain extent in the latter times because I should have done better really.
CB: Well don’t worry we’ll link it all altogether.
GM: Yes. Ok.
CB: Thank you.
GM: Come back to the subject and we can have a bit of time then I’ll give you better answers than I’ve done it off the cuff I expect.
CB: Ok. That’s fine. Thank you.

Title

Interview with Gordon Mellor. Two

Description

Gordon Mellor grew up in London and was interested in aviation. He volunteered for the Air Force and trained as a navigator in Canada. On his return to the UK he and his crew were posted to 103 Squadron at Elsham Wolds and his first operation was the thousand bomber raid against Cologne. On his eighteenth operation they were attacked by a night fighter. Gordon baled out and landed in a tree. When he had freed himself and landed on the ground, he set off to walk, by tracking the North Star, towards the general direction of Spain. He hid in a number of places during the daylight until after a few days he was inspired to knock on a door. He found he was in Belgium with people who started the process that would lead to him being escorted through an escape line from Belgium to Paris and then through the Pyrenees to Spain. He was taken to Gibraltar and flown home. After debriefing he was told he could go home and he knocked on his own home door on his birthday four weeks after his escape and evasion began.

Creator

Publisher

IBCC Digital Archive

Date

2016-06-27

Contributor

Julie Williams

Rights

This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.

Coverage

Spatial Coverage

Temporal Coverage

Transcription

GR: This is Gary Rushbrooke for the International Bomber Command Centre and today, the 27th of June 2016 I am with Flight Lieutenant Gordon Mellor at his home in Wembley, London. Thank you, Gordon. We’re in Wembley, London. Was you born in London? Are you a —
GM: Oh yes. I —my place of birth was about, I should say, two miles away from here. Also, in Wembley but on the southern borders of the town. Whereas I’m living here in the northwest.
GR: Right. And what year was that Gordon? What year?
GM: Oh that was —
GR: Roughly.
GM: Well there’s nothing rough about it. I can tell you the moment almost. It was 1919. 1st of November being the actual date. And I don’t remember the situation but —
GR: No. [unclear]
GM: My memory does go back to about my second birthday or thereabouts.
GR: That’s incredible. Do you have brothers and sisters?
GM: Oh yes. I had a brother. He, strangely enough, was seventeen years older than me so he was born round about 1920, no, not 1920. 19 —
GR: 01 or 02.
GM: 02 or 03.
GR: Yeah. Yeah.
GM: Or thereabouts. Yes. But at the same time of the year in actual fact except that he was a few days later than me on the actual date.
GR: In November.
GM: Yes.
GR: So, you grew up in Wembley. Went to school in Wembley.
GM: I did go to school in Wembley until I was about thirteen. My interests were more practical perhaps than other people so I went to a technical college over at Acton at that age and I stayed there virtually three years. And my school friend I found was living within a half a mile of where I lived at that time and we chummed up and carried our relationship forward into the war years and eventually then his sister and I decided to make it a go and we were married during the war years.
GR: Oh right. So, after college, if you was at college in Acton for, what was it, three years?
GM: Well it wasn’t quite, it was a senior school.
GR: Senior school. Yeah.
GM: It wasn’t a college as such. No.
GR: No. And you left there to go and work.
GM: Oh, I had several jobs. Mainly connected with, I suppose, the building industry. My father and brother and other members of the family were all connected with that industry. And what was I going to say? Oh yes, my early experience was in offices of estate agent’s and people who were on the, I can’t say senior side because I was only a youngster then but the prospects were good.
GR: Yeah.
GM: As a surveyor. So, I eventually started work with of firm quantity surveyors in central London. And after the war I returned to that profession and qualified with the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors.
GR: Very good. But obviously you’d started work and war was on the horizon.
GM: Indeed.
GR: I presume in September ‘39 you were still at the chartered surveyors were you? Were you?
GM: Oh yes.
GR: Yeah.
GM: Yes. I was working for a private organisation. It’s only in the post-war period that I went into the public service.
GR: Yeah.
GM: And certainly in the last, what —thirty five odd years or so I worked with the Greater London Council.
GR: Right. When war broke out did you sort of decide there and then to join up or —?
GM: Well, I was interested in aircraft from a young person.
GR: Yeah.
GM: It was the ‘in’ interest shall I put it of the boys who lived and went in the same road as I did and also went to the same schools.
GR: Right.
GM: And we did get a strong interest into flying and the RAF in particular.
GR: Right. Was that an interest? Was it, was it Cobham’s Flying Circus or —?
GM: No. No.
GR: No.
HM: It was RAF Hendon.
GR: Which was obviously nearby isn’t it? Yeah.
GM: Yeah. And also there was a private ‘drome as well. My goodness me.
GR: Did you used to go up to Hendon then and watch the aircraft?
GM: Yes. We used, yes, we used to go over to Hendon and get to a position round where you could see what was going on. Although we weren’t on their ground but we were as near as we could get.
GR: To watch it.
GM: To watch what was going on.
GR: Yeah.
GM: And there was also another aerodrome close by where [pause] the name of it escapes me at the moment.
GR: It doesn’t matter. [unclear] So, it was —
GM: De Havilland’s I think had got a factory there, in that area and their aerodrome was also used.
GR: Not London — not London Colney.
GM: No.
GR: There was something there. I think that was the test place. So, it was an easy decision to volunteer for the Royal Air Force.
GM: Oh yes. Yes. Indeed.
GR: Yeah.
GM: It was a main point of interest as far as us lads were concerned in that part of Wembley. Yeah.
GR: And did your friends join up as well?
GM: Yes. They either joined up or called up.
GR: Yeah.
GM: In the early days of war. But they went to army or navy.
GR: Navy yeah. So, so can you remember where you joined up? Were you one of the ones who went to St John’s Wood and —?
GM: Where did —?
GR: Did you mention earlier you did some training at Uxbridge. No?
GM: Yes I, yes, my first real connection was when I was called up in 1940.
GR: Right.
GM: Early in ‘40 and I reported to RAF Hendon as many other youngsters did and that’s where we started.
GR: Yeah. Which was quite fitting considering you lived nearby.
GM: Yes. Yes.
GR: That’s quite good isn’t it? So, yeah.
GM: Riding on the train and then out to where Hendon Aerodrome was. Yeah.
GR: Yeah. Did you do your training in this country? Or was you sent abroad?
GM: Yes. In actual fact there was a bit of a blockage in the training period and we were drafted out to various places. When I say we, there was about forty of us who were all called up together. And we were then posted out to various places and I was sent to [pause] Yeah. I haven’t thought about this for a long time.
GR: No. It doesn’t matter. ‘Cause what did you decide to train as? It wasn’t a pilot was it? It was a —
GM: No. I —
GR: Navigator.
GM: I was keen on the navigation. So I, yes, I volunteered for that and I was accepted for that purpose. Yes.
GR: Yeah.
GM: And —oh dear. Oh dear.
GR: It doesn’t matter. Obviously training. You know, I’ve spoken to a lot of veterans and I think training followed the same —
GM: Pattern.
GR: Pattern all the way through.
GM: Yes. Yeah. We had as I say, several months on general duties.
GR: Yeah.
GM: Because there was, seemed to be a bit of a blockage. More volunteers than they could cope with.
GR: Cope with.
GM: So we joined up and we did general duties in many ways.
GR: Yeah.
GM: And in my case then I was posted up to Norfolk and I was on ground defence for quite a time.
GR: Oh right.
GM: And during that time, of course, you did pick up a lot of general knowledge about living in the air force and it was all good useful stuff.
GR: Yeah. Good. So, training, yeah ran its usual pattern when you started. And then —
GM: Yes. I suppose so.
GR: Where did you get posted to?
GM: The first real training as far as flying was concerned was at Aberystwyth which was an ITW.
GR: Yeah.
GR: And we did the course there and a bit more because there was still something of a blockage.
GR: Yeah. Right.
GM: And from there we then were posted to the Midlands as a short stopping off place and then by boat.
GR: Yeah.
GM: We went via [pause] where did we go? Reykjavik in Iceland and then through to the east coast of Canada.
GR: Right.
GM: Once there then things got moving and we finished up at Port Albert which was a training aerodrome in Ontario. About a hundred and forty miles to the west of the main cities.
GR: Yes.
GM: In that area.
GR: Yeah. Yeah. So, I presume life in Canada was slightly different to life in Britain.
GM: Well. Yes.
GR: Yeah.
GM: Yes. It was. It was somewhat freer I think.
GR: Yeah.
GM: And of course, not having to cope with the blackout. That was quite an interesting period.
GR: How long did you spend in Canada, Gordon?
GM: About seven months I think.
GR: Seven months. Yeah.
GM: There was the basic navigation course which was twelve weeks. We then had a week’s leave and then we did a four weeks course [pause] to follow on the navigation.
GR: Yeah.
GM: And having completed that successfully as a group, we’d all been together since we arrived in Canada, we then went to bombing and gunnery school.
GR: Right.
GM: In another part of Ontario. By the Lakes. And we spent at least six weeks there. I have a feeling we overran a little bit.
GR: Yeah.
GM: But then it was time which you received your promotion as a sergeant and we had parade and this happened. There were a number of, a group of, I think it was about forty of us all together in two main, sort of, groups. And some of the [pause] in each group were granted immediate commissions and the others became NCOs.
GR: Right.
GM: Having got the passing out parade done then we were given tickets and travel paraphernalia and told to arrive in the east coast of Canada. We arrived close by and embarked to come back to the UK.
GR: Right.
GM: So, yes, I thought that we were treated very adequately. Being — having jumped from, what rank was I [pause] oh dear. Oh dear. Something below corporal up to sergeant.
GR: Leading aircraft — LAC1?
GM: Leading aircraftsman. How right you are. This is dragging me into the part that I —
GR: Seventy five years of, yeah, remembering.
GM: Yeah. Yes.
GR: LAC2. LAC1 and then you probably went to sergeant.
GM: I did. Yeah.
GR: And then flight sergeant.
GM: Then flight sergeant.
GR: Yeah.
GM: And then yes. Warrant officer.
GR: Yeah.
GM: By that time, it was a couple of years. Three years on.
GR: Yeah.
GM: And from warrant officer I was commissioned.
GR: Yeah. So, before you got to the rank of warrant officer you were back in the UK.
GM: Oh yeah.
GR: Did you get posted direct to a squadron or was it a Heavy Conversion Unit?
GM: No. It was an extension of our flying experience. Mainly to get experience in flying in blackout conditions.
GR: Oh yeah.
GM: Because in Canada all the lights were on.
GR: Yes.
GM: So, as you soon as you got into the UK air then it was black.
GR: And of course navigation would be quite reasonable with all the lights on and if you knew where cities and towns were.
GM: Well yes. Indeed. There was no problem at all.
GR: Yeah. So, pitch black England.
GM: It was. Yeah. Well, of course you were young and adventurous so you attacked the problem with vigour and got used to it.
GR: Yeah.
GM: Which is what one had to. So, Lichfield was the place that I went to to get the flying experience in the dark.
GR: And was you with a crew then? Did you have your own pilot or —? Was it —?
GM: Shortly after that then we did crew up.
GR: Yeah.
GM: And there seemed to be quite a number of Australian pilots running parallel with us. Most of the navigators, I think, were British. May have been one —oh yes there was an odd one or two Australians as well I think. And just a way of processing us for making up the numbers from other groups of navigators at the same stage as we were. And so, we went to Lichfield and whilst we were climatizing ourselves to blackouts in general then of course we were gaining experience as a crew because we were given the opportunity to arrange, sort of, the membership of the crew during social hours.
GR: So, this was on Wellingtons. So —
GM: It was on Wellingtons.
GR: Was there about —was there five of you? I think it is on a Wellington. Yeah.
GM: Yes. I think it was five at that time.
GR: Yeah. Yeah. Because you would have had your air gunners with you as well. With you at that time.
GM: Oh yes. Indeed.
GR: Yeah.
GM: Yeah. It was largely done by meeting each other in the mess or during working hours. They had a flight headquarters and also during flying. You got to know who the people you got on well with and it didn’t take very long to get a crew together.
GR: To get together. Yeah. So where did things move on from training? I believe you were —I wouldn’t say rushed but you —
GM: No. We weren’t rushed. We did well.
GR: Yeah.
GM: In actual fact that post-training period abroad, we did broaden our skills quite considerably with the experience we were getting flying around. And we did eventually do a first raid on enemy territory. It was sort of a single effort in which we flew as a crew on our first operation.
GR: Yeah.
GM: And it was a comparatively easy operation.
GR: Yeah. Did they give you something like leaflet dropping or mine laying? Or something like that as a —?
GM: Oh yes. We dropped leaflets on this particular occasion.
GR: Yeah. Yeah.
GM: It wasn’t — they weren’t a great deal on this occasion but at least we felt we were doing something towards the war effort.
GR: Yeah. Yeah.
GM: Yes.
GR: And that’s while you was at the Operational Training Unit.
GM: That’s right. Yes. Having done that single initial trip.
GR: Yeah.
GM: Within days it was postings were announced. And I think we all were all sent home on leave for a week or something like that. When we came back then the postings took effect. We went to the squadron.
GR: Yeah. And that was 103. Yeah. 103 at Elsham Wolds.
GM: Yes.
GR: Yeah.
GM: Yes.
GR: And I believe, was your first operation then the thousand bomber raid?
GM: Oh yes. The first thousand bomber raid. As far as I can recall.
GR: Yeah.
GM: I think it was the very first one.
GR: Yeah.
GM: Where did we go to?
GR: I’m trying to remember. Would that be Cologne?
GM: Yes. It would be.
GR: Essen.
GM: It would have been.
GR: Cologne or Essen.
GM: I think it was Cologne.
GR: Cologne.
GM: Yes. Yes.
GR: And I think that was in a Wellington wasn’t it so —?
GM: Yes. That was in a Wellington.
GR: Yeah.
GM: We had converted from flying Ansons in the early days at IT. ITW. Yes.
GR: Yeah. Initial training. Yeah.
GM: Whatever it was.
GR: Yeah.
GM: When we got back from Canada that we then converted on to.
GR: Yeah. And obviously, I mean, I know you then converted from the Wellington on to the Halifax.
GM: Yes. Indeed.
GR: Heavy bomber.
GM: That was in the summer of 1942.
GR: Yeah. So, and then leading on to what obviously was an eventful night. How many operations did you actually fly Gordon? Can you remember? Roughly.
GM: I think I was on my eighteenth.
GR: Eighteenth.
GM: Yes
GR: Yeah.
GM: I was looking forward to getting, going towards the end. We had thirty to do.
GR: Thirty. Yes. Yeah.
GM: And it wasn’t to be.
GR: Yeah.
GM: Which was a great pity.
GR: And those eighteen were with the same crew? Were you —
GM: Oh yes.
GR: Yeah.
GM: Yes. Yes.
GR: So, I don’t know whether you can tell us a little about yeah, obviously I know you were attacked by a German night fighter.
GM: Well what it really boils down to — the raid followed the usual pattern and except that when we came out of the target run and dropped the bombs and we were turned away for the return trip back home and we were jumped by this German fighter.
GR: Yeah.
GM: And he just hung around in the background so — I didn’t see him. I was in the front of the aircraft so, but from the rear gunner and the other people who could look backwards he stayed probably something like five hundred yards behind us. He didn’t do anything that was aggressive or anything like. He just sort of sat there. And we did, with the captain making up his mind then, we did talk about what we should do and eventually we said, ‘Well let’s try and scare him off.’ Bad decision. Because we opened up on him from the four gun turret in the, at the rear and also there was a turret —
GR: Mid-upper.
GM: Mid-upper turret. Yes. And that amounted to six machine guns in all. Four with the rear gunner and two mid-upper. And that annoyed the [laughs] chap who was following us I’ve no doubt because having received a blast from our gunners he then opened up and he must have been very good because he really gave us, I think it was —I think four bursts I think we experienced and in that time he set the two inboard engines on fire. He also hit the rear gunner and he missed the rest of us by very small margins because you could see the tracers going past.
GR: And through —
GM: And through.
GR: The machine. Yeah.
GM: Yeah. Yeah. And it set the two engines so named so, we were burned and the pilot put us into a dive to get to a lower level and we were flying at about twelve thousand feet I suppose. Certainly, no more. We found that to be a relatively good level to make an attack and, on this occasion, it didn’t pay off out, pay off in our favour as it had done in the past. So, we were shot down, in plain English. And got down to quite low levels before the order was given to abandon aircraft. And I, in the front of the aircraft was standing on the escape hatch. So all we had to do really was to move ourselves. That’s the radio operator, the front gunner and myself. And just behind and above us was the pilot and his —
GR: Flight engineer.
GM: Flight engineer.
GR: Yeah.
GM: Yeah
GR: Was you the first out?
GM: Yes. I was standing on the escape hatch. And they were, having made the decision, the general impression was get out. Don’t hold anybody up.
GR: Yeah.
GM: So, I got the trap door up and I dropped to sitting on the side of the aperture with my legs dangling and I knew the others were anxious to get into that position so I slid my rear end off the edge of the opening and I was sucked out by the slipstream. And I didn’t pull my cord of the parachute until I was well away from the aircraft. And probably somebody else would have got out in the same time. And I eventually did do so but I wasn’t in the air very long. Just time to look around and there was the light and somehow or other it seemed to be yellowy to me. I don’t know what colour the night was there but I’ve got this yellow feeling in my memory so perhaps it was from the flares or something like that burning as the aircraft got closer to the ground and the fire took greater hold. Anyhow, I pulled the rip cord and came to a jarring stop almost, I suppose. And within a very short period — seconds it seemed, so it probably was that I found myself crashing through the branches of a tree. And I was left swinging with the parachute and the harness stretched out above me spread over the foliage of the branches of the tree.
GR: Yeah.
GM: So, I couldn’t touch the ground so I thought well I’ve got to do something. So I twisted the knob on the release on the parachute harness and the straps sort of sprang apart and I was free to drop — which I did. To my surprise I fell about a foot. No more. I mean, if you can imagine.
GR: Yeah.
GM: You pulled the cord and as soon as you were in motion then you stopped.
GR: You were bracing yourself for a bad fall.
GM: Indeed.
GR: And you dropped twelve inches.
GM: Yeah.
GR: Good.
GM: It couldn’t have been more. It was so quick. And so, I got myself out of the tree and dogs were barking around and I could see there was a building close by which I thought, well, sounds like this might be bit of a farm. In that style. I dumped my harness and what have you there. It was largely still attached to the silk of the parachute which was stuck up in the tree and I left it there. It was no good. I wasn’t going to be able to pull it down. It would make too much row in any case. I did try but I gave up when I heard the creaking and the crashing and the scratching on the branches. So, I walked my way down to the, what I thought might be a road and having got through the hedge it proved to be a road going, yes, downhill. Not very steep. So, naturally, I took the road down. I didn’t go up and I found that I was walking, from the observation of the North Star, I found that I was walking more or less in a northerly direction and as I felt then at the moment then that was the wrong way to go ‘cause I would only be walking to a coast.
GR: Was you in France Gordon? Or in Belgium? You know, when you landed.
GM: When I landed.
GR: Yeah.
GM: I was in, on the border of Belgium and Holland.
GR: Belgium and Holland. Right. Yeah.
GM: So, it was about as far as where you could get without being in Germany I suppose.
GR: Yeah.
GM: So, anyhow, I thought well it’s no good staying here. You’ve got to find somewhere to hide for daylight and it was still before midnight. So, I walked off and having made the discovery that I was heading to the north I turned on the first immediate turning and went up a road to the west and I did see where the aircraft had crashed. Having been left. So, I thought —right, well south is going to be over that way so I went that way and continued to do so for the rest of the night.
GR: So, you walked through the night.
GM: Yeah. I don’t know how many miles I travelled.
GR: Yeah.
GM: But I walked through the odd village certainly.
GR: Yeah.
GM: And the odd dog did bark.
GR: So, in the morning as the light’s coming up did you meet anybody or decide you had to get some sleep?
GM: Yeah, well I was still on the road. I was going, from my observations, then I realised I was no longer travelling to the south. I was travelling to the, what’s, south, east, west —
GR: West.
GM: I was travelling to the west along the road and I thought well there’s houses there. I wonder what is around the back somewhere. It was beginning to get light so, I turned off the road into a field path. And eventually I found a copse on the farm and I got myself in and got in to the undergrowth so that I was hidden although there was a road close by. Or a path of some sort close by. And went to sleep. I woke up mid-morning or thereabouts and I could hear people moving about in the field and I found I was in this copse on the side of a rise and there was men working above me in the field there and there was people passing along the road which was in front of this copse in which I was hiding. So, I just kept out of sight as best I could for the morning. The same in the afternoon. I examined what I’d got in my pockets which was edible. There wasn’t much. A few little bits of chocolate and what have you and I stayed there until the farm began to close down for the night and the light was well on its way to disappearing. Leaving it dark. So I just got up and I’d seen the traffic in the roads close by so I went, turned around, turned across the grass that wasn’t very long. Yes, it was grass of the field. Went through the hedge and down the road. Heading more or less in a southerly direction. And I proceeded where the road was going west and south and I took a variety of roads passing through whatever built up areas there were. And there were a few villages. Not big. That one could walk through.
GR: So, did you walk through the night again?
GM: Oh yeah.
GR: Yeah.
GM: Yes. I walked through the night. In the early part of the night when I went past a group of houses very often there was a coffee shop or a beer place or whatever it was where people had gathered for their evening’s entertainment. I was being tempted to go and find out whether there was any help there but I resisted that and carried on until I had to find another hiding place on the following morning. And this was repeated. Staying hidden as best as possible in the hiding place which I’d chosen in the dark actually. And as soon as it got anywhere near dark I was on my way.
GR: How long did you do this for before you came into contact with anybody?
GM: Well I saw people. People came.
GR: Yeah.
GM: Did come fairly close to me without seeing me.
GR: Yeah.
GM: When I was hidden in the bushes and things like that. I think it was about the fifth day.
GR: Fifth day.
GM: Fourth or fifth day and I —
GR: And did somebody approach you or did you approach them?
GM: No. No. What happened was I’d been staying in the middle of a village. In the bombed house. Or an empty house anyhow. It wasn’t in very good nick. I imagined from what I could see that it was a bombed-like. During the daytime there in this particular place the shops across the road and on either side and what have you was, were mixed. In some cases, there were shops and there was living quarters there as well. Houses and flats. And people were going about their normal daily business.
GR: Yeah.
GM: And I, up on the first floor occasionally poked my head up and looked out of the windows and I could see these people dressed normally and carrying shopping bags and things like that and they went. They went. The scariest part of it was at lunchtime the kids were out of school and I don’t know whether they had their lunches at school or whether they had them at home but there was a number of them about and two or three of them came into the house in which I was on the first floor. And they messed around a bit as kids do in an empty place and they started coming up the stairs and then something happened. I don’t know what happened but it took their attention. Perhaps their playtime had gone and they didn’t get right up to the top of the stairs so, I was left on the first floor there unmolested. And I just stayed on there until it started to get dark. I can’t tell you what time it was that it got dark but this was October.
GR: Yeah.
GM: So, evenings were getting dark fairly early and the number of people out on the street of course diminished as soon as it came what would have been, in the old days, lighting up time.
GR: Yeah.
GM: And the streets became largely vacant so I took a chance. Went downstairs and got the general direction in my own mind to go south and west and I got out of the old bombed house on to the main road. I just walked through. Eventually I got out of the town and I took where my fancy took me. In actual fact, I was aware of what the countryside was like and whether I was on open ground or whether I was passing through places where there was copses of trees and what have you but I stayed on the road as much as possible. It was easy walking.
GR: Yeah.
GM: That’s what I did. And I had to find, at the beginning of the next day before it got light I had to find a hiding place each time. And the countryside was quite interesting. It was quite hilly and I did come to a river. Wait a minute. No [pause] I’m not too sure where that was. I certainly came to the odd railway so I had to walk along the ordinary road and went across the railway bridge to get to the other side. There were people about. A bit. But it was as good as being, walking on your own.
GR: Yeah.
GM: Yeah. It was, it was quite good. So, I walked overnight for the first four or five nights and got away with it.
GR: Got away with it. So again, when did you meet somebody or how did you meet somebody —
GM: Yeah.
GR: Who was involved with either the resistance or helpers?
GM: Well, I stayed in one town as I say.
GR: Yeah.
GM: I think that was probably the last one. Anyhow, I walked from that last town and eventually having sort of just taken the general south-westerly direction I found myself in fairly open country and of course it had started to rain. It had been dry all the time previously. And I got pretty wet. Ok. What do I do now? And it was no good sort of getting under a tree or anything like that.
GR: No.
GM: ‘Cause the summer foliage was disappearing fast and the branches were fairly clear of leaves. So, I thought well I’ll have to go back to the old place where I’d stayed the previous night which was a bit of a problem because it was some miles. Anyhow, I did go back and I came into a village and you needed a map because it affects the story to a certain extent. Anyhow, I got, I passed one of the villages which I’d come through and I saw a house on the other side of the road. There were houses around.
GR: Yeah. Yeah.
GM: And I was walking down the main street. There was nobody about and looking across the road I could see there was a light in this house. It was surprising because most of the lighting was so subdued that you really couldn’t make any use of it. In any case it would have given one’s position away quite easily. Anyhow, I was in the middle of this village and I was quite amazed to see so much light from it. Anyhow, that was only for a short while but the house was still there and I thought there’s somebody obviously living there. And it took me some time to make up my mind but I thought I’m soaking wet.
GR: Wet, tired and hungry.
GM: Indeed. Indeed. Greater pusher to making up your mind.
GR: Yeah.
GM: And so, I went and knocked on the front door and there was no response from the door but the window flung out from the first floor. And just one question, ‘qui est la?’ Who is there? So, I tried to explain my position to this face up at the window. And I don’t know what he said but obviously sort of —wait. So, I just stood there and I heard him thundering downstairs so he’d still got his shoes on and this was about 8 o’clock in the evening I suppose. From my general recollection. And the door was flung open. And I think I said something rather crass like, ‘Je suis Anglais,’ or something like that. And he looked me up and down. Didn’t say anything. Just beckoned me in.
GR: Just beckoned you in.
GM: And I then followed him into a back room and he put the lights on. He gave me a good looking over and his wife then came downstairs. Whether they’d been going to bed or whether they’d got an upstairs room I don’t know. And so there we were. They sort of, I think they started to dry me off to a certain extent and they also had a, what we call a boiler, a solid fuel fire of sorts.
GR: Yeah. Fire.
GM: And so I’m sort of sat close by to that and his wife, as I say, came down and I tried to explain who I was. I showed them my uniform and the flying and the badge and they were very friendly. Anyhow, it wasn’t long before there was a knock on the door and in came a local priest. So, they’d got a message through to him pretty smartish. Mind you it was — the timing was such that it was now in time which nobody should be about except those who were in authority.
GR: Yeah. Curfew.
GM: There was a curfew.
GR: Yeah.
GM: And this man was the local priest. He’d got some English. He’d got a good lot of English. Anyhow, he understood what was what and his main words that he said was, ‘You come with me.’ So, I thought, well, ‘Great. And by that time the rain had finished and it was dry outside. Well I say dry. It wasn’t raining.
GR: Yeah.
GM: And having thanked the man and his wife for the help I came away with the priest and went and stayed at his establishment which was some walk away. And he was living there with his housekeeper and she was still up so it couldn’t have been so very late. So, she just sort of said hello, so to speak, and accepted that I was one of the opposition to the Germans. They had me in there and I don’t know — they gave me a drink I think. I don’t know whether it was hot or cold now. And a bed. That was the first bed I’d been in for some time. it was typical continental.
GR: Yeah.
GM: One of these great puffed up ones.
GR: It was a bed.
GM: It was a bed.
GR: Yeah.
GM: And it was in the warm. In the dry. And they were friends.
GR: And did you find out later were they part of the resistance or were they just somebody — did they put you in —?
GM: Oh, they were in the know.
GR: They were in the know.
GM: They were in the know. How active they were I don’t know but they certainly —
GR: You wouldn’t have known at the time but obviously you were at the beginning of the Comete line.
GM: Yes.
GR: To be passed all the way down.
GM: It may not have been actual Comete people but people who were associated with them.
GR: Yeah.
GM: And yes, I was then [pause] I made the contacts and went on and eventually with the result that I got in with Comete but it was no joyride having found them.
GR: No. No.
GM: As a matter of fact it was downright dangerous in places.
GR: Yeah. Because at the time I presume the Germans knew that something was, they knew airmen were getting down.
GM: Oh yes.
GR: They would have known of an existence of some sort of resistance movement moving them. How, can you remember how long you were actually from being shot down to getting through the Pyrenees how long were you —?
GM: Oh, three weeks or thereabouts.
GR: Three weeks.
GM: Yeah. Yes.
GR: And obviously you and your helpers would have been living on your wits all the time. Like you said it was dangerous.
GM: Yes, well I eventually —
GR: Probably more dangerous for the helpers.
GM: Oh certainly.
GR: Yeah.
GM: Certainly. Yes.
GR: As long as you still had your RAF dog tags you had some sort of security.
GM: Yes. Yes indeed.
GR: Yeah.
GM: But I did take other badges and things off so there was nothing to show for it. And then of course, the priest lent me one of his overall coats. I don’t know whether — he wasn’t as big as me but, so where he got the coat I don’t know but it certainly fitted really well. And I eventually got through to Brussels. From Brussels I got through to Paris. I got from Paris down to St Jean de Luz and from there through the Pyrenees. That was a long run. I don’t know how many miles. Thirty odd. And the —
GR: And this would have been the end of October. Probably the beginning of November.
GM: Yes.
GR: So winter was on its way.
GM: It was the end of October.
GR: Yeah.
GM: It was —I got down to the Pyrenees. I think it was the 19th of October. And got across and I then went down. Yes. Yes I eventually got down to — what’s the capital of Spain?
GR: Madrid.
GM: Madrid.
GR: Madrid.
GM: Yes. Eventually they, on the grapevine, they were told in Madrid that I was up there on their side of the border and so they sent a car up to take me down to the British embassy.
GR: Yeah.
GM: And arrangements were then made and we went from the embassy two or three days later and we then finished up in Gibraltar and they sort of were pretty careful about finding out you were on the level.
GR: Yes.
GM: And so, I then went down to the Rock of Gibraltar and eventually, a couple of days later I flew to the UK.
GR: So, you flew back. You didn’t — yeah.
GM: Yes.
GR: Yeah.
GM: And that was [pause] how many days are there in October? Thirty one.
GR: Thirty one.
GM: Well that was the night of the 31st of October and we landed down in Cornwall to book in and do whatever official things had to be done and then we were flown up to, now, an aerodrome near London.
GR: Croydon.
GM: No.
GR: Not Hendon.
GM: No. No.
GR: Uxbridge.
GM: No. Further out.
GR: Northolt.
GM: Further out. Anyhow —
GR: Yeah.
GM: We got a train in.
GR: Yeah.
GM: And reported in to whatever place it was. Up in town. Yes.
GR: And then I presume —
GM: I’m sorry. This is getting a bit —
GR: No. Gordon it isn’t and your memory’s very very good. And I presume you were then debriefed.
GM: We came up. We landed in the UK and then we, then came in to, towards central London.
GR: Yeah.
GM: We then, I was with other people. Then there was three, I think, of us. We hadn’t been in our escapes with each other at all. It was just whoever was [pause] happened to be, due to come, return back to the UK.
GR: Yes.
GM: On that particular day. Anyhow, as I say we landed on the first of November and we got, we then, with several hiccups we got up to London and Baker Street. It was a hotel which is still there.
GR: Yeah.
GM: And went in. And it had been taken over by the air force, and booked in and in the next couple of minutes we were asked a question. The question is, ‘Where do you live?’ And I said, ‘Well, my family live in Wembley’. He said, ‘That’s just down the road by train.’ So he said, ‘Right. You can go home tonight.’ So, I don’t know what — oh they gave me a pass, I think. Travel. Yeah. Anyhow, I got on the train in Baker Street along through to Wembley Central and I walked down the old road. The estate. Sort of. Which had been there for quite some time and I turned down the road, our road —Douglas Avenue after travelling down the Ealing Road which does lead one to Ealing still and I banged on the front door. Gave my mother nearly a heart attack I think. She already knew I was ok.
GR: Yeah.
GM: And so, I went in and I was home. And the 1st of November is my birthday.
GR: So, you was home for your birthday.
GM: Indeed. Well, the last couple of hours of it.
GR: So from taking off you spent what, four weeks. Got back four weeks later.
GM: Yeah.
GR: Yeah.
GM: Yes. About the 4th or the 5th of October.
GR: Yeah.
GM: And I walked into home. Thousands of miles away I suppose you could say.
GR: Round trip.
GM: Round trip.
GR: A wonderful birthday present.
GM: Indeed.
GR: Going back to the crew, Gordon.
GM: Yes.
GR: If you don’t mind. I know your rear gunner didn’t make it.
GM: No. He didn’t.
GR: The other five members. Did they evade or were they taken prisoner of war?
GM: No. They were — those that were injured —
GR: Yeah.
GM: Were taken to hospital and they then became POWs.
GR: Yeah.
GM: And the others who were just banged about a bit the same as myself —
GR: Yeah.
GM: They were taken prisoner.
GR: They were taken prisoner as well. Yeah. So out of the crew you were the only one who managed to get back.
GM: Indeed. Indeed.
GR: Yeah.
GM: It was a great pity but —
GR: And the rest of them had to wait until 1945.
GM: I’m afraid so.
GR: Yeah. So what happened to you Gordon? After you were back and you’d had your leave and obviously the end of the war would have been still two years away.
GM: Oh yes this was, what, ‘42 .
GR: ’42. Yeah. So —
GM: Running into ‘43. Yeah. I had Christmas at home.
GR: Yeah.
GM: Yeah.
GR: ‘Cause I know they had a rule about not letting you fly again or fly over.
GM: It depended on your experience I think.
GR: Yeah.
GM: But I had, in actual fact, in that four weeks and I’d got to know the identity of a lot of people.
GR: Yeah. Which was good.
GM: So, there was no question of going back on ops again.
GR: No. So did you, what did you actually do for those two years. Did you —
GM: Oh. Well, yes, after the interrogation, the next day.
GR: Yeah.
GM: After I’d been home I had to go back to this old hotel at Baker Street and went through the debriefing and they said, ‘What do you want to do?’ So, I said, ‘Well I would like to do SN course in navigation.’ Staff navigator. And so they said, ‘Well, that’s alright. We can fix that.’ And sure enough they did. I was posted away from London to Cheltenham. The aerodrome at Cheltenham. Or nearby. And I was on the staff there as an instructor until July ‘43. That’s right. July ‘43 and in that time, I was an instructor in —
GR: Navigation.
GM: Yeah.
GR: Yeah.
GM: And I then took the advanced course which was very interesting.
GR: Yeah.
GM: It was a good course. And I then was posted, after that, to [pause] now where did I go to?
GR: Again, as an instructor or —
GM: Oh yes.
GR: Yeah.
GM: Yes. Yes. I was posted up to Scotland. That’s right. And strangely the place where I got posted to was Wigtown.
GR: Wigtown. Yeah. I know Wigtown.
GM: And the chap I was working, that I was sent up to work with was Len [unclear] he was a flight [unclear] officer. Flight lieutenant.
GR: Yeah.
GM: Was he? Yeah. He was flight lieutenant. He was, certainly he was a regular officer and navigation specialist so I worked with him to start with and, well it all turned out very well.
GR: Yeah.
GM: Finishing up, as you say, as a flight lieutenant.
GR: Yeah. And so, I’ll pull to a close. Where was you on VE day? So 8th of May 1945. Was you still up in Scotland instructing? Where was you when you were told the war had finished?
GM: 8th of May.
GR: 1945.
GM: ‘45. I was at Wigtown.
GR: You were still up in Wigtown in Scotland. Yeah.
GM: Yes. I stayed on with the flying training. Still continued.
GR: Yeah.
GM: The air force didn’t suddenly sort of pack it all in and go home. It carried on very much as it had before. And eventually they were closing down the advanced, was it the Advanced Navigation School?
GR: Yeah.
GM: Something. Anyhow, the camp was going to be decommissioned by the sounds of things until something else was found for it to be used for and we came down south and I [pause] There was somebody who was the nav senior instructor who I’d known and met and he put a request in, I think. For me to go to where he was.
GR: Yeah. And obviously by the time you finished your service in the Royal Air Force.
GM: Yeah.
GR: You came back to Wembley.
GM: Yes. Indeed.
GR: And this house we’re sat in. How long have you lived here now Gordon?
GM: Oh, about forty five, forty six years.
GR: Forty five. Yeah. Yeah.
GM: And we had another house before this for twelve years.
GR: Yeah.
GM: The other side of Wembley.
GR: Yeah.
GM: And on the same road as where my parents lived and where I grew up.
GR: So apart from a six year sojourn in the Royal Air Force.
GM: I’ve lived in Wembley.
GR: You’re here in Wembley and we’re still in Wembley.
GM: Yeah.
GR: And I have to say, Gordon. I really appreciate what you’ve just talked about. It was absolutely wonderful. Thank you.
GM: I’m sorry to not be —
GR: Do not say sorry.
GM: More.
GR: No. I mean I —
GM: I haven’t thought about some parts of this at all.
GR: Yeah. I mean I knew your story obviously from past experiences and some of the books you’ve appeared in. And I know you’ve got your book coming out in September which is going to be eagerly awaited. But no —that was wonderful. Thank you.
GM: Oh well, you’re very kind.

Title

Interview with Roy Maddock-Lyon

Description

Roy Maddock-Lyon was born in Cheshire and when his school was evacuated at the start of the war he began an engineering apprenticeship. He was a part of the Queen’s Messengers, a relief organisation that travelled to bombed cities to take emergency medical and other supplies. He later volunteered for the Royal Air Force and was selected as a flight engineer. When he joined his squadron, he recalls a time when they were refused emergency landing at an airfield and had to fly on to RAF Carnaby. He then witnessed a tragic accident on the airfield. He was shot down over Denmark and evaded to Sweden with the aid of the Danish resistance. He discusses the operation to bomb the Gestapo headquarters in Copenhagen.

The interview is incomplete and ends abruptly.

Creator

Publisher

IBCC Digital Archive

Date

2016-03-21

Contributor

Julie Williams

Rights

This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.

Coverage

Spatial Coverage

Temporal Coverage

Transcription

CB: Right. My name is Chris Brockbank and we are interviewing Roy Maddock-Lyon today which is the 21st of March 2016 at Lee House in Weedon near Aylesbury. And Roy was a flight engineer and he’s going to talk about his life and times. So, Roy how did it all start in your mind?
RML: Well when I was born I suppose. But yes, I was born. I was born more or less in the time of the Big Depression but my father continued, was working. He was an accountant and he’d served in the First World War. And from then on I went to Runcorn Grammar School. It was then called technical college but it became changed to a grammar school and I was educated there until the war broke out. And Runcorn was an evacuation town so all the young kids were evacuated to Blackpool. I was one of them. I didn’t like it there so I came home but my school up was at Blackpool so I went out to work and I took an engineering apprenticeship and I enjoyed that. And I wanted to be a chemist but there was no vacancies at ICI for a chemist apprentice so I went into engineering apprenticeship. That, I studied, got my Ordinary National and I started getting my Higher National but I’d, it had just developed that the RAF and I thought I’d like to join the RAF. I didn’t think of the army. In fact I didn’t think it was my sort of cup of tea. Neither was the navy. So I went in to the RAF but during that I had an interesting experience. I was with the Civil Service, as it was then called, and I was a messenger in the Civil Service. The role of the messenger you did one night a week and you were there in case of messages, an air raid, and you lost communication and then I had to know where to go. You know, the post office, the police and that. And the interesting case was because Liverpool had been badly bombed there was an organisation known as the Queen’s Messengers. Have you heard of it?
CB: No. Never.
RML: Well the Queen’s Messengers was a relief organisation run by the government and it was stationed in Birmingham and it was a fleet of coaches and lorries carrying relief to wherever there was a damaged area and it was called the Queen’s Messengers. And as the roads were all in blackout and the road signs had all been taken down the messengers had to know the area. So I had to go from the, well the relief convoy was coming up from Birmingham to go to Liverpool and I had to cycle to a place called Helsby outside Runcorn and to get in the front vehicle and guide it to Runcorn and then hand over to the next one because they knew the road and they went on. So it was an interesting exercise and not many people probably know about the Queen’s Messengers.
CB: No. No.
RML: And they was probably there for a couple of days and the next raid, where ever it was, they went off to there and it was a very good relief. So that was all I had to do was sit in the, in the front vehicle and put my bike in there and wait until they got to where I had to hand over and there was this continuous movement. There was about three or four Queen’s Messenger convoys going. All radiating from Birmingham. I think that’s something that could be developed you know because not many people, as you say, nobody knew about them and it was essential to get relief supplies because we carried medicine and doctors and things like that. And so after that I used to do one night a week and then I got a request calling up for an interview and they interviewed me for RAF ordinary and they said would I like to go into aircrew? And I said, ‘Of course I would.’ [laughs] And so they said, ‘Right. Well you’d better go home again,’ because they weren’t recruiting at that building for aircrew. So, I was then called up about a few weeks later. Had to go to Padgate and, where they assessed me for whatever. Pilot. Engineer. Gunner. And I passed with flight engineer and then I eventually was called up to go to Lord’s Cricket Ground and, where I had a fortnight’s equipping and getting into uniform. Inoculations and that. And that, once I passed that at Lord’s I was sent to [pause] yes, Sunderland. Just outside. In a place called Hetton le Hole and I did an amount of training there and then I went from there I went to Bridlington where I was, had other training including parachute dropping. How to get out and open a parachute and drop on the ground. How to fall and do the normal roll. And then I was sent home on leave. And after doing the square bashing and that at Bridlington I was then posted to St Athan where I did type engineering training and then I got type training. I couldn’t go into Lancasters because I was too short. You had to be five foot, over five foot six for an engineer. I don’t know why. But they offered me Flying Boats or the Halifax and so I took the Halifax and I did my type training on the Halifax and I passed that and then was allocated to a squadron. Oh no I wasn’t. I was sent to HCU and that’s where I eventually met my crew of five and then made it seven and whilst at Acaster Malbis I did commando training in case I was shot down and various other exercises and then I was squadroned. Yeah. No I wasn’t. I was sent, sent to HCU then to do my initial training. That was, they was using the very old Halifaxes which were flying coffins because they invariably crashed. So It was a mark ii. Mark i and Mark ii Halifax. I went on the Mark iii eventually and it was a good experience. I had one dust up with the police because I was cycling home. We’d gone out to a party and my navigator was on the cross bar and a policeman stopped me and that was not allowed. To have a crossbar. So, he took my name. I got called up and got prosecuted for that and the magistrate said had I got anything to say. I said, ‘Yes [time that blinking plod?] was in the air force. Not punishing us.’ ‘Right.’ He’d already given me a ten shilling fine. ‘Another ten shillings. [laughs] Have you anything more to say?’ I said, ‘No.’ Blinking — I said he should be in the army or the, yeah, instead of stopping — anyhow, so then I went. So that was my brush with the law. In fact, in the squadron they all thought it very funny. Including the CO. [I hope that bloke had] had some more disasters. Anyhow, I went to my squadron and I’ve written a book here on what I did including photographs. So you can borrow that.
CB: Thank you.
RML: I can get these back wont I?
CB: Yes. Absolutely.
RML: And there was lots of things. The Halifax was a good plane but as a — well fortunately I’d written to the Hercules who made the Bristols, who made the engines and they sent me a calculator how to measure your fuel consumption. So as a result, all the other engineers hadn’t got that. So as a result, I had a good fuel record.
CB: Oh.
RML: One raid I was on using that and we’d got hit with shrapnel and all and I’d had to do the necessary fuel change and we came back to the squadron and we said, have permission to land and we got a, we were damaged, and, ‘Can we have priority landing?’ ‘No, you can’t land here. Go to Carnaby.’ ‘No, we haven’t got enough fuel to go to Carnaby.’ ‘Well too bad. Go to Carnaby.’ And we turned from York on to Carnaby which is Bridlington and as we come in to land two engines cut out. We were just on the, we planted down on two engines. Out of fuel. Thinking I’d have a lot to say about that if it wasn’t recorded because we should have been able to land. But anyhow the two engines cut out and when we taxied around another one went. So, we lost three engines. It wasn’t, wasn’t funny and, you know, all the other planes were there and as we taxied around and we got nose to tail so we stopped our plane in front of another plane and were getting out and as we were getting out there was a heck of a noise and two planes farther back — they were doing the same. The engine of one went into the rear turret of another and just chewed the rear gunner up like spaghetti. It was terrible, and we were walking, you know, got our equipment back to the reception and we saw all this, you know, damage.
CB: Yeah. Frightening.
RML: If the pilot had kept the plane going straight it would have been ok. But no, he tried to accelerate to turn the plane away and that’s what happened.
CB: Dreadful.
RML: The engine, you know, the propeller just churned him up. It was a heck of a mess. It was a bit disheartening.
CB: I bet.
RML: But we, we had other raids to go on. And then one other raid. My pilot was a bit of devil. Having flown the Tiger and other, we came — we was out doing, we were training like Barnes Wallis wants. Low level flying. And we came over Bridlington beach and the holidaymakers dropped to the ground because they thought they was going to be cut up but we carried on from there over the Yorkshire Moors and I don’t know if you’ve been up that area.
CB: Not recently.
RML: Well they’ve got pylons there.
CB: Oh yes. Yeah.
RML: They’re quite high aren’t they?
CB: Yeah.
RML: Yeah. Well what do you do with a pilot that wants to go underneath the wires? At about fifty or a hundred feet. Which is what we did.
CB: Amazing.
RML: He had, he got a severe reprimand for that.
CB: Really.
RML: So, anyway, but yes we did low level. We was training for low level flying. You know a lot of people think that the Lancaster was the only group that could do low level flying. They weren’t. There was other squadrons that was capable of doing a low-level attack because they had to. There was lots of cases. And so when I, well I was eventually shot down. Done eighteen raids and on the eighteenth I was shot down in Denmark. It wasn’t very pleasant because it was February. It was a bit cold. So, when I landed I’d got the old fashioned flying boots which is a disaster because when my parachute opened my shoes decided to continue. You know the ones I mean. They were just sleeves –
CB: Fell off. Yeah.
RML: Oh, they went down so I landed in bare feet. When I didn’t, I looked around, blew my whistle and I couldn’t hear anything because I think I’d gone deaf, you know, with dropping from twenty thousand and so if anyone had blown their whistle I didn’t hear it. But I looked up and I could see there was a farmhouse there so I started walking in bare feet to go to the farmhouse and then I realised that going to the farmhouse I’d be leaving my trail because it was soft ground. So when I got to the farmhouse I walked, turned right at the farmhouse and walked down the road and I came to another farmhouse and it appears that the next day the Germans went to the farmhouse I’d been and there was nobody there. I wasn’t there. The farmer took me in and gave me ham and eggs and I’d got my escape kit and my escape money and I slept in his house that night and he was absolutely panic stricken because he’d got a young daughter and if the Germans had known I was there they, that would have been the end of their life. So anyhow the next morning when I got out of bed the milkman called and the woman was in tears apparently and she said she didn’t know what to do. She didn’t want to give me up but she was worried about her daughter. So, the milkman said, ‘Right. Put him in the hayloft,’ which is what I climbed up in to the hayloft. Burrowed down about two or three feet because the Germans, if they was looking for anybody they’d bayonet the holes to check. I was down deeper than that and at 6 o’clock at night when it was dark the milkman came and brought me some shoes. I take size seven and he took size ten or eleven [laughs]. Not funny. And so, I put those on. Went with him across the fields because he only lived about half a mile, a mile away and the house where I’d stayed the farmer there followed me with a rake levelling off the ground where my footprints had been and so that he was giving me cover and it turned out then this new bloke Johan Helms, he, it’s in the book, he thought, his wife got me clothes because I’d still got RAF uniform on. So, he got me some shirt and trousers, shoes and we went next morning. He said we’d got to get out quickly because there was a train coming and we had to get on the train. So he took me down. Instead of going down the road we went down field-ways because he knew the area, being a milkman. And we get to this station. I just forget the name of the place. [Toulouse?] that was the name of the town. And he — I’d got the money so I gave him my money. He got the railway ticket and to go on the train which we did but as we were waiting for the train there were a couple of SS officers come stalking up and they got on the train with me. In the same compartment. They were talking, yabbering to each other. They’d probably had a girl the night before and they weren’t interested in passengers on the train. So and the train was going from [Toulouse?] to Copenhagen but in Denmark they’ve got an underground system like London Underground and so, we got off at a place called Roskilde. Oh no. The SS officers got off at a place called Roskilde which was German headquarters and then we went on a little bit farther. A few miles. Ten, twenty miles and the train stopped again and we got off because it turned out that we, he put me on to, or we both got on to the Underground which was going around Copenhagen and so, we got on that. When it gets to Copenhagen the train which we’d been on was in the platform and the German troops were searching it and we were on another train and what they, we all thought, and I agree with that the Germans probably realised when they got off the train at Roskilde that what was sitting next to them was one of the RAF people that was escaping. So that was why the train was stopped and, but we didn’t need it. So, they never found me, and I went to a place called Charlottenlund which was, the owner of it was the warden of the equivalent of Kew gardens and it was called the [Forest Botanski Garden?] and this man, who was the brother of the milkman because he’d rung up his brother to say he’s got, got some nice chocolates and I was traded as a box of chocolates. And so, we got there and he er [pause] yes, his daughter, the owner didn’t want me around for obvious reasons so his daughter took me around the wooded area where the trees were and we were walking around there and suddenly two German soldiers come up and she put her arms around me and started kissing me. Not that it meant [laughs] and the Germans probably thought I was her boyfriend so they just walked on, and I was left, and I was then later that day handed over to Professor [Eyg?] I don’t know if his name is familiar. He was the leader of the Underground. The Danish Underground. So, he took me to a safe, a safe house where they took my identity, my photographs and gave me a false identity and, I’ve still got it here. And I just well yeah they gave me, and then again I became another box of chocolates because this group who interviewed me of Danish ladies handed me over to another bloke and his wife and I just went and I had a bath and had a good wash and a shave. And he took me for, he said, ‘I want to take you around Copenhagen in the morning,’ so he did and as we were going down one of the side streets there’s a German road block. So they were checking everybody for their identity. So there was a cinema next door there so we went into the cinema and saw some film which was — I don’t know what it was. And after about a half hour we came out and the road block had gone so we were free so he took me around Copenhagen, around Gestapo Headquarters and that was, and he didn’t tell me what he wanted me to see but he showed me what I could see and that was Gestapo Headquarters and also there was doing, the Germans were doing something. Do you know what Copenhagen looks like?
CB: I’ve been to Copenhagen. Yes.
RML: Well there’s four lakes coming down and at the end of the fourth one is Shell House and what they were doing they was putting trees down next to the lakes and he said, ‘Take a note of that,’ and I just did that. Apparently, when I got back, it’s skipping the order to tell this bit, Air Ministry made one terrific blunder because they were planning a Gestapo Headquarters raid which went a complete success but a disaster because one of the pilots on the Mosquito, I don’t know if you know it, missed the, went down the wrong lane and hit the school.
CB: I know about that.
RML: And wasn’t supposed to
CB: Right.
RML: Because I’d gone back to tell them that the Germans expected it and they hit the school because the pilot, that one pilot had gone sick when I did the briefing and he didn’t know about the alteration and as a result he went down what he was been told, trained for, which was the wrong direction and that was how a whole load of school children were killed.
CB: Yeah. Very tragic.
RML: About a hundred children. More. Killed because of a pilot who didn’t go to the training. Anyhow, I felt very angry to say the least. But because the Gestapo headquarters, they hit it as they wanted to. I don’t know if you remember what they did. They hit the ground floor with the rockets.
CB: Yeah.
RML: And all the Gestapo and SS who were on the ground floor were killed and all the Danish government officers who had been put on the top floor escaped. It was a wonderful success that. And anyhow eventually they decided that I had to get out because I’d got, I didn’t know I’d got this information because for obvious reasons they didn’t tell me. But they got me out and as I said it was February and they put me on a ship that was leaving Copenhagen that night to go to Bornholm and on to Germany and what it was doing it was taking German troops back to Germany. So I had to be on that boat before the German troops came on so and so they put me on the outside of the life boat which was just, the water was down there and when the ship started to sail I had to crawl from outside the lifeboat to the inside of the lifeboat. The lifeboat was sitting on the deck and they put the searchlight on and they couldn’t see me because I was on the inside now. Beforehand when they were searching the ship I was on the outside. And eventually when it had gone out of the port they came and dragged me because I was frozen. Very cold. And they took me down to the captain’s cabin and he was a double agent because as he pointed out to me on the last voyage he found a German revolver and he took it down to them and said, ‘Look. You must have left this.’ And he said it may have been a trick. But anyhow he was, he said, ‘I’ll have to leave you now.’ But he gave me [egg and ham?] lots of food and I was eating that all night and he was entertaining the Germans down below. And after the war I had to go to Denmark to identify that he had actually been a double agent.
CB: Yeah.
RML: Because he was under, the Danish people thought he’d been a traitor. So anyhow, I get off the boat and the Air Ministry or the government had sent somebody down from Stockholm because they were expecting me. They got a message across to say that I was on the boat and the Danes, the escape route — I think — I forget the name of the route, but it had to be closed down because it had been compromised but it was too risky not to take the chance because they had to get me back to Stockholm to Air Ministry urgently. So, the Danes took a terrific risk in getting me on a route which had been blown because the Germans insisted on identities of people going on. It’s in this book it’s described and so they got me off and it was and then in the morning as I say the Air Ministry, the air attaché had come down from Stockholm, met me, took me to his flat and I had a wash and a shave and one memorial episode. He said, and it was night time now, he said I’m going to give you a shock. I said, ‘Well what?’ He went to the window and drew the curtains back and I’ve never seen anything as — you can imagine when we’d had a blackout for four years. Nothing. No light. And Malmo, where we’d landed, was just like Piccadilly Circus. You — the lights were terrific. It was mind blowing. And so that was a shock to me. He then took me to the station and he didn’t come with me. I don’t know why but he put me on the train to Stockholm and I’d only been on, it was a sleeper, night sleeper. I’d only been on the ship er on the train about ten minutes and somebody else came to get in the top bunk and he spoke to me. He said something in German. ‘You’re not German.’ ‘No.’ ‘What are you? American?’ ‘No.’ ‘British?’ Well you couldn’t argue with the fact I could only speak blinking British, so he said, ‘Don’t worry. I’m not going to give you up.’ He said, ‘I’m the German courier from Berlin and I’m going to the German Embassy.’ It’s nice that they have got some people that’s friendly. And so, we sat there and he said that Germany wasn’t so, this was February ‘45. Getting towards the end. And we had a little chat. In the morning he shook me out of sleep and he said, ‘Where are you going to now? British Embassy?’ ‘Yeah.’ ‘I’ll get you a taxi.’ So, he got me a taxi, ordered, told him to take me to the British Embassy. This was a German courier. And I got to the German Embassy, er British Embassy and it was fine. So I’m there and then one of the staff at the Embassy said, ‘Do you smoke?’ ‘Yes.’ ‘Here’s two hundred gold flakes from the British Red Cross.’ I said, ‘Oh thank you.’ So, I got those and I got sent to a hotel. The Grand Hotel in Stockholm which is quite a good one. It’s a big one. It’s like The Savoy. They put me in and when I’m, I decide to go out and I’d got some cigarettes in my pocket and I was in plain clothes now because they’d taken me to like Harrods or somewhere where they equipped me with a suit, tie, shirt, everything and so, and shoes, everything. I’d got everything I needed. So, I went downstairs and was sitting outside and a Swedish girl came up to me, a blonde and said, ‘Have you got a cigarette?’ I said, ‘Yeah.’ ‘Can I have one?’ I said, ‘Yeah. Ok.’ I was naïve. Stupid little boy. So she said, ‘You haven’t got a spare packet have you?’ I said, ‘Yeah.’ ‘Oh, I’ll see you in a minute.’ ‘I thought that’s the worst, you know, she’s taken my cigarettes and gone and buggered off. About ten minutes later she came back and said ‘It’s all fixed.’ I said, ‘What?’ ‘The room.’ The packet of cigarettes was getting you a room for the night. So anyhow to be honest it didn’t materialise. So, and so I didn’t take her up on her offer. I was only in Stockholm two or three nights, so I went to the Embassy and it was interesting. The air attaché had got two daughters...

Title

Interview with Bob Frost. Two

Description

Bob Frost flew on a night operation on 16/17 September 1942 as a rear gunner on Wellington BJ877, 150 Squadron, from RAF Snaith. Before reaching the target at Essen, the aircraft was hit by anti-aircraft fire and the port engine was damaged. He describes how, during the flight home, the aircraft was completely disabled and all the crew bailed out, landing in Belgium. He narrates the experience of being helped by the resistance, from his first encounter with a Flemish family through to Gibraltar, via Kapellen bij Glabbeeck, Tillemont, Brussels, Paris, St Jean De Luz, San Sebastián, and Madrid. He praises the resistance for the support they gave him.

This content is available as embedded video:

Creator

Publisher

IBCC Digital Archive

Date

2015-11-05

Rights

This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.