I agree that the rules are clear. I disagree that they are correct.
I strongly support Bob's contention that the current rules
disenfranchise WGs whenever the chair is unavailable. I don't see how
the benefit of consistency and continuity can be deemed more important
than the cost of disenfranchisement. And how can you claim that you are
improving continuity by denying a WG a vote in the EC during times when
the WG chair can't be present. It seems to me that such a situation
actually increases the discontinuity.
jl
-----Original Message-----
From: Pat Thaler [mailto:pat_thaler@AGILENT.COM]
Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 1:39 PM
To: STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org
Subject: Re: [802SEC] EC Membership and voting
And here is the message with my view on the subject:
The rules are clear. The voting position on the Exec belongs to the
Working Group chair (once confirmed or appointed).
If you want to change that, it would require a rules change. I would be
against such a rules change. I think consistency/continuity in our
membership is important. If it was officially stated that the vote could
be used by a vice chair in place of the chair, I'm concerned that Chairs
might fairly regularly send their vice chair to the EC in their place
which would lose continuity.
With the rules as they are, we get very good Working Group Chair
attendance.
By the way, I also think that if we must continue this discussion, it
should move to the EC reflector where it is visible. We have drifted
well off the contract matters that required private discussion.
Regards,
Pat
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob O'Hara (boohara) [mailto:boohara@CISCO.COM]
Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 1:32 PM
To: STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org
Subject: [802SEC] EC Membership and voting
Taking this to the reflector for more open discussion of the issue.
This is a very important issue and needs to be discussed. I don't think
that precedent is sufficient to "decide" this matter.
I disagree with all that have said that membership on the EC is held by
an individual. It is not. Membership in 802 is a right held by
individual. Membership on the EC is held by a position. No individual
is selected by any means for membership on the EC. Individual 802
members are selected for a position, either by their WG/TAG or by
confirmation of an appointment by the LMSC chair. It is the position
that holds the voting right on the EC, not the individual. Clause 7.1.2
in the P&P is very clear on this point.
A simple example will serve to illustrate this. I am currently the
Recording Secretary and able to vote in the EC. If I were to resign
that position, even though I am still an individual member of 802 and
802.11, I would no longer be able to vote in the EC. The confirmation
of my appointment to the position of Recording Secretary made me able to
vote, not the fact that I, as an individual, was confirmed as an
abstract "member of the EC".
The P&P discuss "succession" in only one specific case, when an election
or appointment is not confirmed by the EC. It does not apply to this
situation.
If a WG/TAG chair has their own P&P allow them the power to appoint
someone to act in their absence or incapacity and our P&P are silent on
the topic, is that appointed person now the "chair" for all intents and
purposes under our P&P?
I would say we are in an ambiguous situation. Precedent may make one
feel comfortable. But, it is not a defense for an appeal and it is not
sufficient to close this issue.
Personally, I think that an elected chair should be able to have their
WG/TAG represented on the EC in their absence or incapacity. Why would
we want anything different? Do we really want to silence a WG of more
than 500 voting members, simply because the chair is on vacation?
-Bob
Bob O'Hara
Cisco Systems - WNBU
Phone: +1 408 853 5513
Mobile: +1 408 218 4025
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