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Topic Review (Newest First)

03-31-2004 09:06 AM

jerryrlitton

Cape Dory 30

Actually my question is concerning a 36. I am looking for a suitable "blue water" cruiser that I can safely sail single handed and be comfortable enough for 2. What do you think the required equipment would for a 3-5 year circumnavigation? Your comments will be greatly appreciated.
Jerry

03-31-2004 05:55 AM

jerryrlitton

Cape Dory 30

Actually my question is concerning a 36. I am looking for a suitable "blue water" cruiser that I can safely sail single handed and be comfortable enough for 2. What do you think the required equipment would for a 3-5 year circumnavigation? Your comments will be greatly appreciated.
Jerry

03-22-2004 04:03 AM

DirtManly

Cape Dory 30

I very much appreciate the input from all of you. I wanted to make sure that I wasn''t being unreasonable here. I now understand that I could walk away legally on the strength of the survey, but it''s nice to have a bit of insight as to what the surveyor was talking about. It gives me some confidence in my conviction.
Thanks Again
Dirt

03-21-2004 06:44 AM

sailingfool

Cape Dory 30

DirtManly
In case you still have any doubts about bailing on this purchase:
- a rule of thumb about estimates of major repairs is that if a yard writes a detail estimate of work, assume the final cost will be up to double the estimate due to surprises and unexpected complications. While this isn''t alweays true, from personal experience it is more common than not, and this assumption gives you a better base for no-regrets decisions.
- if deck repairs need to be done, you can expect a good structural repair, but it'' very hard to produce a result that hides the repair, unless the deck is stripped of hardware, non-skid areas masked, awlgripped, and then the non-skid painted. The cosmetic work will be several times the cost of the core repair itself.

03-21-2004 05:04 AM

Jeff_H

Cape Dory 30

I am sorry to hear that you ran into problems with the survey. I was delighted to read your excitement about the deal progressing. I know how heart breaking it can be to think you have the ''perfect boat'' only to find it rift with problems.

As to the problems, I can''t recall if the Cape Dory 30 has a bolt on or an encapsulated keel. If this is an encapsulated keel, then I would run and not walk the other direction, because once the encapsulation had delaminated from the ballast, and the encapsulation envelope has been breeched, there is no practical repair that will return this boat to a "like new" condition because there is no way to get the moisture out of the keel cavity and re-adhere the ballast to the shell. (I am not sure that the CD30 had lead ballast as I seem to recall that some of the CD''s had iron ballast. If the CD30 has encapsulated iron ballast, that makes the situation far worse and harder to repair.)

If this is simply a bolt-on keel the repairs are somewhat easier, although there are some potentially negative implications to those as well. It is actually pretty easy to unbolt a keel and rebed it properly. If the CD30 does have a lead keel, then the weeping would suggest corrosion of the keel bolts and a keel bolt replacement is a very big job.

When you combine the keel issues with the deck core issues, this is a major project boat. You have every reason to request your deposit back because this by any reasonable definition this is a boat that failed its survey with concealed conditions that you could not have known about prior to making your offer. The kinds of problems that this boat has are severe enough that $10-12K will not result in a seamless repair and so simply getting a $10-12K discount would not make you whole. This is clearly a boat that has had a hard life and frankly it makes no sense for you to take on the problems of the current owner. I strongly suggest that you demand your deposit back and look for a decent boat.

Respectfully,
Jeff

03-20-2004 08:42 PM

WHOOSH

Cape Dory 30

Dirt:

If your purchase contract stimpulates that the sale is contingent on a survey and that the survey demonstrates the boat is fundamentlally in the condition it has been represented, and if that''s not true, then you can simply request your deposit be refunded.

The legal stuff aside, you would not be buying a boat but rather a ''project'', and one of the main attractions you originally had to the boat - a good financial decision - just went out the window along with the keel crack.

You don''t need to justify your decision to the broker or ''satisfy'' him about your logic; simply saying ''no thanks'' is sufficient. But if you choose, you can point out that the next survey - when it''s time for you to sell the boat - may produce a similar blemished report (i.e. a hull repair was required)...and why would you knowingly purchase that grief?

Sorry to hear about the surprise, but aren''t you glad you had her surveyed!?

Jack

03-20-2004 05:14 PM

Silmaril

Cape Dory 30

Making the "Big Decision" to buy a boat always comes with second thoughts and introspection. Have you been able to speak with the owner, or only through his agent? If you get a chance to speak with him, (Or her) what do they say about the issues uncovered by the surveyor?

As mentioned earlier, you may have a tough time selling the boat in the future as it is. Any future buyer will uncover these things also, unless expertly repaired, which would cost a bundle, as you have said.

The broker is interested in his 10% comission and will always say you should buy. I have NEVER found a salesperson whose best interest is anywhere but their own pocket. I even have done the unthinkable, as far as selling a lovely 30'' C&C to a family with little to no experience. (I at least gave them three all day lessons "gratis")

You can of course back out of the deal based on your surveyors feedback. I doubt the current owner will accept almost a 50% reduction in selling price, based on the repairs cited. DO NOT let any broker pressure you into ANYTHING. You have no obligation to them what-so-ever!!!!

From what you had stated in previous posts in this thread, you are looking for something that you can enjoy on your lake, and then sell in a couple of years. You should not be in a hurry. Do not succumb to the outside influences of those who do not have YOUR best interest at heart. Your surveyor was hired by you to give you a fair and honest representation of a vessel. He has done that. You are now feeling uncomfortable in the deal, and have the right to reject the vessel based on his findings.

Move on and find a boat that passes survey so you can sleep at night and enjoy your sailing during the day!

03-20-2004 04:28 PM

DirtManly

Cape Dory 30

I actually got the survey a couple days ago and it appears that I was mistaken about the outcome of the survey. I apparently took his like for the model as his approval of the boat. This is not the case. It took me several days to digest what the surveyor was saying.
This boat has a structual crack in the keel on starboard side that is around six feet long and is allowing the ballast to bleed through (i still don''t understand how lead bleeds). This area also has an extremely high moisture content and the boat has been out of the water since fall. It also has high to very high moisture content on a significant part of the decks and dog house. From the info I have been able to gather talking to various yards, it appears that these repairs will run something along the order of $ 10-12k to repair.
Here''s the rub, my broker is trying to tell me that the surveyor is just being brutal and that the boat isn''t really in that bad a shape. Furthermore he wants to approach the owner to get a price reduction and finalize the deal. At this point I don''t know if I want the boat. I have been reading the thread about the guy that wants palm a salvage boat off, and what I''ve gleened from this is that this boat will now have a significant price reduction because it has a history of keel and deck problems (I would have to make the next owner fully aware of the problem).
At this point is it reasonable to ask for my deposit back and bail out? I feel like the broker does not want to let me out. Being as how the contract read that it was pending survey, doesn''t that allow me to legally bow out at this point?
I would be most grateful for quick feedback on this.

03-10-2004 08:07 AM

WHOOSH

Cape Dory 30

Dirt, congratulations and we all hope you have a good spell of sailing and puttering about with your new boat.

If the boat didn''t come with one, you might consider adding a mizzen staysail if you really would like to get all the sailing performance out of her possible. This is only suitable if you have a split backstay on the main mast, but it takes only a block at the mizzen masthead, a halyard and a sail for your size boat. The sail can be 1.5 oz spin cloth and is usually not much money when buying new, even less when used (e.g. from Bacon''s). No need to rush on the suggestion now but, in time, I think you''ll wish you had more ''horsepower'' when sailing with the wind other than off the bow...and this is a fun way to add horsepower.

Jack

03-10-2004 04:54 AM

DirtManly

Cape Dory 30

I appreciate your input Jack. I in fact bought the Cape Dory. I just had it surveyed. It is in as good a shape as i thought it was. I am not terribly concerned about sailing characteriastics, while it will take a little getting used to the ketch rig, I''ve been racing long enough to figure out how to get the most out of her, no matter what that may be.
When it''s time to sell it I will trailer it to Atlanta and try to peddle it down there, if that doesn''t work then I will trailer it to Charleston. I had already considered the fact that it will be almost useless to try selling it here.
Thanks Again To All
Dirt

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