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The Online Candidate Confronts Critical Netroots

By The New York Times July 16, 2008 5:07 pmJuly 16, 2008 5:07 pm

On Thursday, liberal bloggers and online activists will meet in Austin, Tex., for the Netroots Nation 2008 conference. And while some of them are frustrated with Senator Barack Obama about perceived shifts on issues including warrantless wiretapping, Katharine Q. Seelye writes in her Web column his campaign will be an integral part of the conference. Go to column

Oh, good, a convention of people who will support Obama no matter how many lies he tells and how many times he reverses his positions. FISA, gun control, death penalty, NAFTA, none of it matters. It’s the convention of emotion, not rationality. Pseudo-intellectual types who finally get out of their bathrobes and out of their basements, who may see the real world on the way to the convention. America, at it best.

Is that guy still running? I thought that after he dropped the mask and revealed himself to all as the phony, empty, power-hungry demogogue that I’ve been saying all along he is, we all decided he was toast.

And who are these people who are still saying they’ll vote for him in polls?

I would like to remind the author that although the attendees may be white men, many of the longtime posters at blogs attending this convention are not. Simple economics prevents many of the non-white non-men from attending the event in real life, but we are watching, participating and setting the agenda for these discussions.

Thank god some people are having doubts about Obama. I hate hearing how people will hold their nose and still vote for the guy just because the Democrats put him up for the nomination. That is like cattle follow each other to the slaughter. I don’t like either Obama or McCain for the presidency but I can’t be hamstrug and crippled to vote for someone that I detest and don’t trust. I can’t write in a vote for Hillary in New York State nor am I person who doesn’t vote. So my option is to go with Nader. He gets hit with many prejudices – he’s a third party candidate so people say he can’t win, he is 73 so people say he is too old and he doesn’t have charisma which is why Obama bamboozled so many people. So with all that I will vote for the person who is brave enough to go through this derision and still hold their head up. If there are enough uncommitted delegates and superdelegates to vote for Hillary then I will change but I won’t ever forget Nader or Hillary for doing what they had to for me – fight.

“We haven’t got the man we had when we began”
A quote from Fiddler on the Roof – it applies to Barack Obama for many of his supporters. The dreamers who believed that Obama would be a “different” kind of politician. Hah!

There is no such thing. There are only winners and losers. Obama aims to be a winner. So he does not hand the Republicans a weapon to be used against him. He votes for FISA.

So, how did the dreamers conjure up Obama, the new kind of politician? Did Obama help them to have that dream? Did Obama use demagogy to win the nomination?

Demagogy refers to a political strategy for obtaining and gaining political power by appealing to the popular prejudices, emotions, fears and expectations of the public — typically via impassioned rhetoric and propaganda.

Fascinating to learn that bloggers and Obama’s campaign has been in dialogue for years now.

Regarding progressivism and toleration in the Democratic Party…my response to Obama’s call for being “open to new ideas” is that such openness in and of itself is not a value without some limits. “Openness” can be a catch word for being opportunistic or even deceptive.

The real test of the Democratic Party is not whether it can govern from the center. The “center” is a political fiction which is used to dominate other points of view.

The question of the Democratic Party is whether it can lead the U.S. into a strategic position in the world that privileges diplomacy over war. And Obama’s “openness” to staying in Afghanistan is troubling on that account.

Toleration is an individual value predicated on a functioning state and society that recognizes, permits and protects it. We do not have that right now in this country. The United States has become deeply intolerant of much of the rest of the world. And to correct this, it must lead by example, by mustering the political will and energy to make a change in favor of the rule of law and human rights.

Government funding of evangelicals is not tolerant and open. It’s stupid politics that will empower the Christian movement, which is opposed to my homosexuality (sorry, Senator). Back-tracking on spying policies is not tolerant. It’s cynical politics, meant to head off a campaign issue the Republicans could use against the Democratic (sorry, Senator).

I’m afraid that one of the structural weaknesses of the Democrats is that the party has lost sight of its historical roots in working-class politics, which favor action and results, as much as openness. And here, criticism of Obama’s class status is relevant.

One can enthusiastically support Barack Obama, while substantively challenging his view of the Presidency and of political power generally.

Hey, I was disappointed in the FISA vote as well, but we did need SOME law to restrain the Cheney-Bush cabal, and better a poor one than none at all. A new law can be re-visited, re-drafted and replaced in 2009.

No matter that Sen. Obama voted for it… JUST THINK of the alternative !!! Shudder.

In November, Netroots, you only have TWO CHOICES:

1) Obama, who WILL offer SOME HOPE.

OR

2) McCain, who will offer NO HOPE AT ALL.

Me, I’d prefer a little hope, than four more years of McBush failures and rip-offs.

I am very disappointed that Obama has changed his position on FISA. His earlier position was that the overreaching of the Bush administration had strayed into breaking the law. What was illegal then remains illegal now and the comprised FISA bill does nothing to remedy that. Instead it eliminates the best opportunity that as citizens to find out just how far down the rabbit hole the illegal actions went. For a former constitutional law professor, Obama is not standing up for individual rights under the constitution.

This is the same kind of childish “my way or the highway” attitude as the Hillary followers who threatened to vote for McCain when their candidate didn’t win. It’ll take dedicated people living in the real world to win back the country from the fascists in charge for the last 7 years, not naive dreamers who demand 100% idological purity.

“a small but influential group”
Unfortunately, yes. Also, arrogant, ignorant and irresponsible. It’s really irresponsible to impose on the world “hope, unity, change” after the disaster of “compassionate conservative.”
IMHO, geeks shouldn’t be allowed to vote at all – and I am saying only half jokingly – they don’t have any understanding of society, no knowledge of history etc.
BTW, IMHO most aren’t the left, but libertarians (=aggressive egoists). The left can’t support someone who is for privatization of Social Security and against universal health care.
Thank you, friends.
Dr. Anna, a stay-at-home voter

I think the Dems will increasingly suffer from “Buyers Remorse” as time goes by. At least we knew who we were getting with Hillary !!! I have no idea who this guy is..Just seriously and without emotional, look at every Major issue that were discussed during the primaries and we see a totally different candidate. I hear the talking heads on TV say its a sign of maturity that when at man gets new information that he can change his stance… That is a sign of maturity but the dem primary did not end 5 months ago or 3 montha ago but about 2 months ago and no one could possibly be fed that much new “Information” to make all the flip flops he has done..How about Abortion, guys, faith based turn about. He is starting to take several positions on Iraq .. He has to go visit shortly and be surprised at the progress and the plans to send large amounts of troops home… He is taking 3 or 4 different positions so that one of them can be used as a “sound bite” when he gets home…

Heck the next think you know Obama will vote to drill from oil in the US, and gas prices will fall. I will be really annoyed if the Dems do not block domestic drilling so that I can keep paying $4+ per gallon for gasoline.

P.S. Obama. The surge worked despite you saying it would be a failure and result in more american deaths. I know you said this because it was posted on your website ……….until you scrubbed it off the other day. Just another change we can believe in….NOT!

Obama’s FISA vote was exactly what we need more of in Washington: COMPROMISE. Being extremist in either direction does no good. Look where twenty years of uncompromising right-wing bromides have taken us.

More to the point, there is NO WAY a national candidate can be elected on the standard liberal/progressive platform. Like it or not, this is a centrist or slightly right-of-center country, and I say this as a proud, unabashed uber-lib myself.

As such, making a big deal about Obama actually trying to win an election (Democrats have a lot in common with the Mets in terms of their ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory) is profoundly counterproductive. Progressives should take that escrow cash (which is shamefully being used to extort Obama) and use it to seed an effective and popular ideological counterpoint to the Conservative revolution.

Set up think tanks, launch AM radio stations in the flyover country, and sponsor the more formal organization of future activists on college campuses. Sorry, folks, but the so-called netroots are preaching to the converted… they ‘aint reaching the audiences that can really bring about social change in this country. Progressives need to change the way America THINKS before their platform becomes truly viable. In the meantime, it’s best to support Obama without putting obstacles in his way.

You can lie to yourself or vote your conscience for the one candidate who is not for sale- Ralph Nader.If you read the Washington Post article on its poll you discover that Nader has cost McCain support, not Obama. Really!

1. Where in the “Political Bible” is it written that once one becomes a presumptive candidate, he/she must “move” to the center and relinquish their beliefs to appease the “mainstream?” I apologize for all the quotes! Better to keep your mouth shut than appear weak.

2. Obama needs to quickly find a sense of humor. People who speak with intelligence and sophisticated (sardonic but not self-deprecating) humor exude POWER. It isn’t going to be easy for our first black presidential candidate to pull this off without appearing “uppity” to the right and racist, but it is necessary.

As a Dutchman living in the US, I am amazed by this election process. There are ultimately two people to choose from. We all know no politician can please everyone for a 100%, moreover there can hardly be two more different candidates than these two guys – apart from race and age, in their opinions they are completely different too. What’s the big discussion about? Look at the main issues and pick your choice. Don’t get distracted by unimportant things such as middle names and being a veteran or not (the latter is surely an interesting biographical episode but hardly something that qualifies someone to lead a nation).
Obama 08!!!- in my opinion, but for those who want to continue the endless warmongering and oilprofiting for the happy few, the choice must be as clear. I don’t understand people who can’t choose or shift between the two every now and then at all, but maybe that is because I’m not American?

The fact that the LEFT isn’t impaling this guy on a skewer over FISA particularly, but also, Iraq, Death Penalty, Guns, and Campaign finance is a disgrace. But the real disgrace is that Obama is planning to escalate the violence in Afghanistan. And he’s talking about starting another war with Pakistan. What we, on the left, want our government to do is STOP KILLING MUSLIMS! Stop these ground wars for oil. Stop getting our troops (brothers and sisters) killed. Stop the madness. The fact that Obama doesn’t have the will to stand up against middle east war after all the rhetoric in the primaries tells me I can’t trust him.

Senator Obama’s campaign did indeed write a response to critics (myself included) of his bizarre flip-flop on the illegal wiretapping bill. Sadly, it was a deceptive, hypocritical load of hogwash, relying on nothing more than the very politics of fear he has so eloquently railed against.
Senator Obama, like any of his campaign reps who attend the netroots convention have painted themselves into a corner. Can they honestly explain how they thought voting to cover up crimes committed and preventing the American people from ever knowing the extent to which their Constitutional rights were violated by the Bush administration would actully help Obama get elected? Is there a voting group that believes the President is above the law that they felt they crucially needed to court? Were they desperate for telecommunications company money? Did Senator Rockefeller, who sat on the Senate Intelligence Committee that approved the illegal program give them an offer they couldn’t refuse? Will Obama come clean about bowing to that pressure?
Can they explain how taking the position that the terrorist threat is so urgent that Constitutional rights must be suspended is somehow “centrist”, or is an example of “…the very thoughtfulness or openness to new ideas that are required to move this country forward”?
I won’t be holding my breath. The deeper one looks at it, the more profound the betrayal becomes. He turned his back on the truth and on a huge segment of his supporters. I expect that to be a factor at the netroots convention and for the rest of the campaign. It was a critical error.

President Obama drew criticism on Thursday when he said, “we don’t have a strategy yet,” for military action against ISIS in Syria. Lawmakers will weigh in on Mr. Obama’s comments on the Sunday shows.Read more…