Pro-Russian separatists shot down two helicopters in a key eastern Ukrainian city, and fighting in the port city of Odessa triggered a fire that killed dozens, as the embattled nation moved closer to the brink of civil war.

Interim Ukraine President Oleksandr Turchynov said "many" pro-Russia rebels have been killed, injured and arrested in a major offensive to regain control of Slavyansk, though it was not clear if the Kiev-backed forces had succeeded. Russia reacted angrily to the offensive by Ukrainian security forces, calling for an emergency meeting of the UN Security Council after a spokesman for President Vladimir Putin warned it "effectively destroyed the last hope for the implementation of the Geneva agreements."

In the Black Sea port city of Odessa, Ukraine's third-largest city, a fire that broke out in a trade union building amid clashes killed 31. Fighting there represented another ominous milestone in the conflict that threatens to become a full-blown civil war, as Odessa holds huge historic significance for Russians and Ukrainians alike.

Looks like Ukraine is going the way of Syria thanks to Russian propaganda, Russian special forces, Russian controlled militias, and Russian military and political maneuvers to destabilize the nation. Imagine the USA had the misfortune of being located next to Russia and not next to British Canada. This could have been us a few hundred years ago.

Seeing a young democracy destroyed by a powerful tyrant is like watching a snake strangle a beautiful bird...

Yeah, there isn't a single Ukrainian fighting another Ukrainian because you can always call Ukrainians "ethnic Russians" just like the people going to Dachau were all not really Germans.

Please, the powerful tyrant stuff should be reserved for the coup "government" in Kiev who unleashed the Army on protesters after throwing out a legally elected government that would not unleash the Army on protesters. A very interesting contrast, that, and a good indication of who is a tyrant in the Ukraine.

12
posted on 05/02/2014 5:06:23 PM PDT
by Rashputin
(Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)

Obama is utterly useless on foreign policy, he sucks at everything, but the impotence on foreign policy makes Jimmy Carter look like Patton. Not only would Ted Cruz be better, but ANYONE would be better (except for the Ron Paul nut). The guy is worthless.

I’m not nearly as idealistic as all that. Joining the European union is hardly my definition of Democracy and our Democracy is a fiction dominated by oligarchs and an elitist political class. I may not love Russia but when weighed against the EU and our government its hard not to find ourselves wanting. I also think it is healthy to have an antagonist that makes people wake up to a reality of a dangerous world and world where having a government debt that represents 87% (EU) of GDP is dangerous beyond belief.
We need not delude ourselves the old America that we could be loyal and love is nearly gone. We have only a few more elections left to pull back from the abyss. Russia isn’t our threat. Our threat is in the white house and on TV and represented by a political/corporatist class that has enslaved us in all way but chains but that will come in time whether it be to bind our hands or just to our minds.

Ukraine is going the way of Syria because the Obama administration spent a TON of US taxpayer money to make it that way, to “get back” at Putin for daring to deny the greatness of Obama, and block his attack on Syria.

“But note well that Putin hasnt had the balls yet to push his own forces across the border.”

A strong leader is not one who declares war every week. Putin is a KGB spy, he prefers to do things by cloak and dagger. He declares war when he has no other way to get his way. Here he seems to be succeeding without the need for open invasion (so far).

". . . two in a row, Russia is giving them weapons, there isnt any doubt"

So the current "government" in Kiev was lying when they said protesters had taken over Army stores at bases and armories in a half dozen cities?

No, no one needs to give the Ukrainians anything for them to have the resources to shoot down helicopters and blow up tanks. They have more than enough already and they'll be having more Army units defect to the separatists if they keep trying to bulldoze their way through civilian protesters.

20
posted on 05/02/2014 5:15:54 PM PDT
by Rashputin
(Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)

Oh, so then the Kiev Kiddies did lie when they said amories were taken over or you're just changing the subject? So there are Russian troops in Odessa? How about the other cities in the Ukraine? Are they in Kiev because it won't be long until the Army is needed there as well?

Sure, he said he sent troops to Crimea and I believe him. I also believe he did so because the Crimea is of strategic importance to Russia. The rest of the Ukraine isn't and he's more than happy to watch it tear itself apart.

My guess is someone will turn up sneaky military types from the EU or US before they ever find a sneaky Russian in the Ukraine because the Russians are getting everything they want without lifting a finger.

How about you give it a rest with pretending the PR releases and total fabrications out of Kiev are facts as well as with your BS about Russian troops behind every bush when there's no evidence of it other than the paranoia of the Kiev Kiddies?

29
posted on 05/02/2014 5:24:43 PM PDT
by Rashputin
(Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)

This was thought up by some idiot minion, who thought it would be a good way to get back at Putin, so they started throwing around money to Ukraine’s most radical elements via the Omidyar Network, Soros Renaissance, and USAID via the US Embassy in Kiev.

“Seeing a young democracy destroyed by a powerful tyrant is like watching a snake strangle a beautiful bird...”

You are completely out of touch with reality. The regime in Kiev came to power in a coup and the people they are attacking are supporters of the deposed president who won the last election. Whatever your take on the situation, it is an outright lie to frame the conflict in those terms.

Just so everyone is aware, Pertaining to the crew of impotent hyperpatriots that hang out on the Russia/Ukraine threads accusing people of spreading propaganda for Putin and the like....

So far I have invited about half of them to put on their big boy panties and report us ‘Russian propogandists’ to DHS or at the very least, to JR. Which one would thing a fitting action. We are Russian propogandists and worse right? Not one of them believes enough in the accusations they make towards those refusing to agree with them to do their obvious patriotic duty and have us foreign agents arrested or even zotted.

That pretty much shows you how little they stand behind the crap coming off their keyboards while disrupting every thread on the subject.

Oh, and you will also note that when confronted with the well reported ‘Occupy Ukraine” scam that out state Dept ran that pretty much started this mess, there is dismissal or silence.

Just a heads up for lurkers and other posters who don’t feel like wasting their time.

Democracy? What democracy? They ran the elected guy out of the country, and replaced him with Svoboda-party thugs... because he wouldn’t join the European Union. Take a look at the US debt-to-GDP ratio, the go looks at the folks the EU calls “PIIGS,” and see what the Bundesbank did to them.

Ukraine is on the other side of the world from the USA and we have no important interests there. Ukraine was also part of Russia going back a thousand years. Crimea was moved from Russia to Ukraine during the 1950’s by Khrushchev.

How America acquired PR is an interesting story and not in a way that supports your point.

Do you know what he was impeached for? When Yulia Tymoshenko dealt with Gazprom, she pocketed the cash; when Yanukovich dealt with Gazprom, the funds went to the treasury. But Tymoshenko gets released from prison and Yanukovich gets exiled. But funny thing is when rebels had literal guns to their heads, the parliament changed their opinion of who was innocent and who was guilty.

report us Russian propogandists to DHS or at the very least, to JR. Which one would thing a fitting action.

Even if somebody believes with all their heart somebody is a 'Russian propagandist'...why would they report you them DHS? It is not illegal. That would be like calling 911 over your chicken nugget order.

47
posted on 05/02/2014 5:46:52 PM PDT
by Irenic
(The pencil sharpener and Elmer's glue is put away-- we've lost the red wheelbarrow)

Yanukovitch’s big crime was brokering a gas deal with Putin wherein the Ukraine would no longer get subsidies in exchange for their $16 billion debt being written off. Contrast that to Tymoshenko who pocketed billions from her gas deal while the Ukrainian government collapsed into debt.

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