mwalsh wrote:Something else we did wrong was stay there. We could have got rid of the Taliban, left, and gone back again to sort things out again, if the need arose, several times in the last ten years, and still not spent as much as we have just staying there!

Don't know.

We should remember 9/11 happenned in part because we left Afghanistan to fend for themselfs after completely destroying their country.

I think if Bush had focused on Afghanistan instead of waging a war his father wouldn't by handing over the peace keeping mission to UN forces after the defeat of Taleban, we would have been in better shape.

evnow wrote:We should remember 9/11 happened in part because we left Afghanistan to fend for themselfs after completely destroying their country.

I don't remember us having any involvement in Afghanistan before 9/11, beyond a few cruise missle attacks against Al Qaida in response to the Embassy bombings in 1998. Didn't we attack Afghanistan in response to 9/11, after the Taliban had been giving years of mutual support to Al Qaida and Bin Laden?

mwalsh wrote:I don't remember us having any involvement in Afghanistan before 9/11, beyond a few cruise missle attacks against Al Qaida in response to the Embassy bombings in 1998. Didn't we attack Afghanistan in response to 9/11, after the Taliban had been giving years of mutual support to Al Qaida and Bin Laden?

Here ...

A lesson we SHOULD have learned about Afghanistan: the 10 year war with the soviets ended up bankrupting them, that's what REALLY ended the cold war.

Remember, we were "fighting communism" by training people like Bin Laden and helping them indoctrinate a generation of "jihadists" in Wahhabi ideology ...

Operation Cyclone was the code name for the United States Central Intelligence Agency program to arm the Afghan mujahideen during the Soviet war in Afghanistan, 1979 to 1989.[1] Operation Cyclone was one of the longest and most expensive covert CIA operations ever undertaken;[2] funding began with $20–30 million per year in 1980 and rose to $630 million per year in 1987.
...
Carter's national security advisor, Zbigniew Brzezinski, allegedly stated in an interview that he claimed was illegitimate and fabricated that the U.S. effort to aid the mujahideen was preceded by an effort to draw the Soviets into a costly and presumably distracting Vietnam War-like conflict. In a 1998 interview[4] with the French news magazine Le Nouvel Observateur, Brzezinski recalled: "We didn't push the Russians to intervene, but we knowingly increased the probability that they would... That secret operation was an excellent idea. It had the effect of drawing the Soviets into the Afghan trap... The day that the Soviets officially crossed the border, I wrote to President Carter, "We now have the opportunity of giving to the Soviet Union its Vietnam War."[5][6] He maintains that this interview is simply untrue and that there were no arms sent to the Afghan insurgents until the week after the Soviet invasion. He suggested that the latter claim is easily verifiable, saying "the records are open!"[7] His claim is supported by the fact that he was never recorded or video-taped making any of these alleged statements by the interviewer.

garygid wrote:I believe that 9/11, like Pearl Harbor, happened because our government allowed it to happen, ... to get public backing for what they were already intending to do.

As someone that was in uniform and standing watch on 9/11, this is beyond offensive. While one has the right to their conspiracy theories, one might stop to think about the many thousands of people that care deeply about this country and have signed on the dotted line to give their life for her before opening their mouths...

AndyH wrote:As someone that was in uniform and standing watch on 9/11, this is beyond offensive. While one has the right to their conspiracy theories, one might stop to think about the many thousands of people that care deeply about this country and have signed on the dotted line to give their life for her before opening their mouths...

With due deference to you good self, I don't especially agree that what Gary said was a slander against those who have served nor those who profess to be patriots.

The beauty of this country, above all else, is freedom of speech. Even when you don't particularly care for what is being said.

Edit: But, thinking about it, maybe our problem is that we've just become more polarized to one position or another, without being particularly interested in the views of the other side? Maybe we just all need to get along a bit better with one another. Now how about a group hug?

mwalsh wrote:The beauty of this country, above all else, is freedom of speech. Even when you don't particularly care for what is being said.

Very true. "...support and defend the Constitution of the..." But we aren't allowed to yell 'fire' in a cinema, are we?

mwalsh wrote:Edit: But, thinking about it, maybe our problem is that we've just become more polarized to one position or another, without being particularly interested in the views of the other side? Maybe we just all need to get along a bit better with one another.

Agreed as well. Too much polarization - and too many honorable ideas twisted out of shape for political benefit. Things like 'supporting the troops' as a counter to opposing Bush/Cheney and Iraq Part Deux...or the far, far right suggesting their definition of 'patriot' is the one true definition...

Express an opinion, criticize an official or an administration or a policy. But narrow the broad brush a bit?