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Saturday, February 19, 2011

The reason I don’t tolerate communist propaganda BS from brain-dead anti-white liberal hoodlums - even the English newspapers are publishing articles on the frequency of farm attacks and murders. Something they deliberately withheld in the past to limit international exposure. Only Afrikaans newspapers published regular articles on farm murders.

The list of murdered farmers is available for anybody interested in doing the research.

But if you want to phone up the local ANC office to ask for a copy, chances are Sipho will fob you off with some more propaganda that no such thing exists. Farm murders that is.

The ANC thugs got their security guards to prevent Steve Hofmeyr and his group from handing over the list of murdered farmers together with a petition for the SA government to do something about the onslaught on white farmers. The mud hut dwellers tore up the list and threw it in the street.

But if you rather want Marxist propaganda or regurgitated drivel – go and Google “Kill all Whitey” or “Shut-up Whitey” or whatever some thug hoodlum is calling his tripe nowadays. There you’ll find 101 reasons why killing a farmer is a good thing. Or not so bad. Or not as bad as somebody says.

Then go and read the Marxist agenda of the Frankfurt School (1923) and decide who is holding a blindfold in one hand and a spoon full of shit in the other. Or do you really need to do the blindfold test to determine whether Marxists actually feed you the crap they are clutching in the other hand, or magically conjure up a spoon full of honey you didn’t notice?

There has been about one farm attack per day in SA since President Jacob Zuma’s state of the nation address on February 10, the Christian Democratic Party said.

“The latest farm murder – that of Alberto Cota near Stellenbosch – brings the tally to at least five farm murders since President Jacob Zuma claimed a reduction in certain categories of crime during his state of the nation address,” said CDP leader Reverend Theunis Botha.

“Some farm attacks have taken place in the Free State and Mpumalanga, in one case the victim is in a critical condition,” he said referring to the attack on a Free State farmer by three men this morning in which the farmer was shot in the head and his bakkie stolen.

“Periodic condemnations by the ANC simply do not cut it especially when the ANC insists on its ‘right’ to sing songs like ‘kill the farmer’.

“Potential attackers must be made to understand quite clearly that farmers are not free game and that the government is serious in rooting out the problem,” he said.

A farmer was attacked on Mara Farm, between Frankfort and Tweeling, at about 11am.

Police were unsure of the exact details of the incident but the farmer was shot in the head and the three attackers fled with his bakkie.

There have been no arrests and police are investigating a case of attempted murder and robbery.

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Opinion(s):

The truth about this genocide can not be denied any longer. Those that do deny it though are destroying any credibility that they ever hoped to feign & are betraying a pro genocidal agenda. That should cause one to wonder why they are in favour of running interference for this genocidal campaign.

I dont know what your game is Rooster, but you seem to go out of your way to minimize what is happening to whites in SA. One wonders why you would go to such lengths, knowing that real people are in real danger in this country. On your site you have a link to another blog of yours in which you ridicule the Afrikaner and his heritage (although no comments to date). In my modest opinion you seemed to be fixated on Afrikaners, which tells me you have quite a chip on that shoulder of yours. Problem is, your personal demons are endangering other people and that is just selfish. Sort out your issues and stop playing with other people's lives.

Like Ron said - he probably relies on the tourist industry for his existence.

For 20 years I have been saying that the downfall of South Africa won't be brought about by savages murdering and pillaging, but ignorant whites telling everybody that nothing is wrong.

You know the typical retorts - crime is everywhere, every country has it; there has been so much progress since 1994; farmers aren't targeted more than other groups; the ANC has built soooo many houses (caving in on residents); everybody has electricity (they don't pay for)...

You can spot these libtards 6 sea miles away.

The funniest lately was the massive improvement in matric results - for ten years the standards and pass rates have been going down the drain, then in a year where the teachers strike and students are left high and dry, the pass rates suddenly improve magnificently.

And the sheeple (wearing their own blindfolds and swallowing their own crap) sing and dance in the streets...

It takes a lot of patience to see what is happening, to know why and then to hear from those who are either ignorant, naive or just outright "agents"come up with all kinds of excuses, none of which are grounded in reality. The worst of it is that the ANC and its cronies aren't even subtle about it. We all know the education standards (along with everything else) are down the drain. Irrespective of how many pupils pass, their qualifications are like the Zimbabwean dollar...barely usable even in the country of origin. But then you have AA and what not to make up for that. Overseas, specifically NZ for instance, they wont even accept medical qualifications from SA anymore, unless its predated to before 1998 give or take. Farm murders are happening and it is orchestrated. The ANC wont make the same mistake as Zim, not yet anyway. They have always been successful at Public Relations. So what better way of blaming the criminal element for ensuring that farmers leave their farms. Absolute deniability. There is no way that the number of farm attacks, including the viciousness of the attacks are random. We all know that. The international community wont help as they, along with people like Rooster, pretty much thinks that we deserve what is happening in SA.

You poor poor white south africans. You build your wealth and nation on racism, bigotry, murder and genocide, now you expect conserideration from a world which looks at you rightfully with the same disfavor that it did to Germany after they lost WW2.

Take it from an America. You deserve what you are getting (probably worst). Dont like it? Move. Thats what your kin tell the Natives of America and the African Americans/Afro Latin Americans of North and South America.

I do not see a genocide taking place in South Africa. This must be the one thing that I do agree with when it comes to Rooster. The stats as given by the Dutch blogger in my view is fake. I have said this before on this blog.

Crime in the farm lands of South Africa has always been there. This was the very reason why the 'commando system' was created in the first place in the 80's.

(Was there a conspiracy in the 1980's under apartheid to kill the white farmers too?)

Post 1994 there had been threats from the right wing to use the governments equipment to destabilize the country. This is why the 'commando system' was discontinued. That was an open secret post 1994.

The TAU (Transvaal Agricultural Union) wanted the government to replace all the volunteers from the 'commando system' with paid policemen. Considering that there had been between 50-70,000 volunteers that expectation was over the top to say the least. Government had other more pressing priorities. One was repaying the countries huge debt which had accumulated under apartheid.

@ Jim Beam: The commando system was disbanded as the first level of protection for farmers. Then followed the disarmament of other citizens. Did they threaten to destabilise the country, or did they want to protect themselves?

You are again comparing crime with the targeted onslaught on farmers - you don't even have to look beyond the nature of the farm murders to realise it has nothing to do with normal crime, but state sponsored genocide to get rid of farmers so the ANC can get their hands on farms without paying for them.

Jim, if you disagree with that other idiot so much, how come you seem to support him whenever he spreads his trash? I recall the fairly intolerant guys over at SAS viciously shunning you a while back for the same reason.

Even when you state things like the commando system was disbanded because the right wing groups would have destabilised the country?

When every person on this earth (or at least the 150-200 million killed under Communism) knows that disarmament is done for one reason only, and that is to make citizens incapable of defending themselves?

I stated what I recalled happened a while back at SAS - I did not suggest for a moment that is what we do here or intend to do.

What I do however not agree with, is the whole purpose of having a site exposing the evils of the ANC while allowing demented chickens to spread their lies here.

Because that makes us no different than mainstream media - and there is enough of that crap going around.

There is a sustained propaganda attack against telling the truth...SAS has finally been brought down, and I see censorbugbear's site too is now inaccessible...Sites like ILSA, white refugees et al will also soon follow...

This was with reference to Johann Niemoller the former member of the CCB and leader of the extreme right wing group called "Die Volk". I am going to assume you know who Fred Rundle is? I am also going to assume you know Johann Niemoller was the head of Region 5 under the CCB, setup to execute ANC members in Europe under apartheid. They are still looking at prosecuting him today for the execution of Anton Lubowski in Namibia. This was the guy who started funding the commando system. Can you blame anyone for getting the shits?

There is also an interview on Youtube that Max Du Preeze did with the spokesman of "Die Volk" and he gave a vague answer when asked about the use of the commando system for other purposes.

The commando systems collapse was an own goal brought on by the right wing and is resulting in the murders on the farms. The ANC I know for a fact viewed the system as a destabilizing force even the right wing acknowledges this.

you don't know shit about your own continent so how can you expect anyone to believe you know anything about Africa?

@Jim Beam

that's not how things work here and you know it.

I know the point has been made before, but the concerted top-down verbal and ideological attack on farmers in South Africa is being met from below with savage and brutal physical attacks on isolated and vulnerable people who have been systematically disarmed by the nanny state.

You don't have to call it a "genocide", as it may be coincidence that the farmers are all the same colour (but not the same ethnic background), but there is no doubt that the two forms of assault continually feed each other.

Sorry, but when the state openly advocates the removal of an entire class of people as "oppressors", like the Cossacks in Russia, it matters little whether they form a distinct ethnic group or not. (Genocide as a term can cover cultural or religious groups as well as racial ones).

@Anonymous,

SAS tends to get brought down because they can't help threatening people. As an openly racist rage-site, it has a function and gets a lot of support, but you can't go round breaking the law; it is not censorship it's just the way things work. White Refugees does a lot of good work and I doubt it will disappear anytime soon.

One of the big problems is that some bloggers don't know the difference between "truth" and libel, and when they get called on it they cry conspiracy and blame everyone but themselves. We work hard at ILSA to make sure that does not happen.

I should add that, in response to your question, just because farm attacks had no official encouragement back in the 80s does not mean that they were not sanctioned by the ANC and their supporters. While the people are being taught that farmers are illegal occupiers of stolen land, the attacks will continue without the murderers feeling any remorse for what they do.

You have never been silenced at ILSA (as far as I know) and will not be, your voice has always been welcome here.

@ Islandshark, Jim comes to this site to belong to an interest group and not to discuss any facts. He has a HUGE chip on his shoulder for just about everything, except the corruption of the ANC. Once my own coloured friend, who was staying in my house and making use of my hospitality for a few days, told me that whites never contributed anything good to South Africa. Back then you can imagine my surprise, not that I didn't challenge her ignorance. The coloureds have a massive chip on their shoulders and it prevents them from opening their minds. Jim, without an open mind how are you going to identify with any of the white interest groups?

@Cottonwood: What we do have is a lot of self righteous condemnation from okies sitting overseas who dont really know the history of SA. What is funny, in a very ironic way, is that these okies are intolerant themselves which begs the question: How can you be qualified to judge, when you are guilty of the same conduct? What is not so funny is that you are condemning people without recourse all the facts. It does not say much about you as a human being when you condone the rape and murder of innocent people does it?

Cottonwood. Your analogy falls flat on several fronts. First. The bulk of the Afrikaans speakers were never rich & in fact were openly discriminated against during the first few decades of the existence of the macro State of South Africa. The British regimes prevented Afrikaans speakers from equal participation within the economic realm. The Boer people in particular were especially impoverished after the British destroyed their farms during the second Anglo-Boer War. They generally never rose much higher than working class. Some "wealth". In fact the wealth of the region is STILL horded by offshore interests & companies [ the very successors to the folks who started the second Anglo-Boer War. ] The British were ones who "built" the State & it was they who built it on "racism, bigotry, murder and genocide". The British created the among the first concentration camps in the world wherein twenty seven thousand Boer civilians died. Twenty four thousand of them were children under the age of sixteen. This represented 50 % of the Boer child population. So there was indeed: "racism, bigotry, murder and genocide" in Southern Africa - but committed by an outside empire AGAINST the locals that you judge as White South Africans. The British initiated the policies of Apartheid in the late 19th cent in the Cape & Natal before bringing it to the new macro State of South Africa. The local White politicians simply picked up what the British Empire started & tried to reorganize it so as to give back tracts of traditional Bantu settled regions. At any rate your entire position sounds eerily reminiscent of the Western elite apologist line for not wanting to remedy or alleviate the genocide by attempting the blame its victims for it instead of the policies responsible for it. Furthermore: demonizing the victims of the genocide does not in any way rationalize nor justify the genocide but you probably do it in the vain hope of assuaging your conscience on the matter.

Also your World War II German comparison falls flat on several fronts too. First: when the Germans lost - the Allies at least helped to REBUILD Germany to the point where they are leading economic power of Europe now. Where do you see Britain or the West helping to rebuild a modern Boer Republic or even a generic White South African enclave as they did for the Germans? In fact those powers are still working to PREVENT such a restoration from occurring. Next: Apartheid era South Africa was in fact an ALLY of the West - not an "enemy" [ as they were with World War II Germans ] as the West was never at war with South Africa. [ despite Western Intelligence manipulations which worked against Apartheid era South Africa but only for the purposes of safeguarding their influence & control in the region. ] Furthermore most of what the Western media asserted against South Africa was hyped up propaganda aimed at removing a regime which went out of favour with the Western elite because the Western elite wanted total control of the region & did not want the Separate Development platform breaking up the macro State nor hindering their control of & access to the local market.

Claiming that anyone deserves the sort of brutal treatment that the locals are receiving [ which actually cuts across racial lines - though the White farmers are particularly targeted ] sounds like sour grapes which would cause one to wonder what the locals ever did to you? The USA & South Africa were allies. [ though certainly strained after the anti-Apartheid Congressional legislation of 1986. ] At least when World War II was over the Americans went about helping the Germans & even arranged an air lift to West Berlin when the East had cut them off. The political war against South Africa is supposed to be over yet comparatively far fewer Americans are helping South Africans to rebuild.

Jim Beam. Whenever a particular group of people are being killed far out of proportion to their numbers within the general population: that constitutes genocide. Furthermore: farmers & White farmers in particular are specifically targeted. Their murders are political in nature as rarely is anything even stolen from the victims & their murderers often lie in wait for them. Furthermore the so called Dutch blogger is far more than that as she is a former professional South African journalist. The data on her blogs comes STRAIGHT from the numerous police & news reports on the matter & she posts LINKS to the various reports. If her data is "fake" than so too are its SOURCES where the data is based. Though I doubt you are going to go s far as to claim that all those mainstream news reports are "fake" as well.

The Commando System was created in the 1700s not the 1980s. There probably was "a conspiracy" [ a strategic plan aimed at State appropriation of land coupled with engineering a famine as per the Zimbabwe formula ] to kill White farmers for a long time & certainly there was an increase in attacks starting in the 1980s.

The evidence of genocide taking place has been confirmed by numerous sources not least of which is the eminent authority on genocide: Gregory Stanton the President of Genocide Watch.

Furthermore Jim Beam. Johann Niemoller [ who interestingly is apparently the grandson of the notable Niemoller who wrote the famous anti-Nazi: First They Came poem ] & "Die Volk" - particularly based on their actions fit the description of an agent provocateur. Fred Rundle might be a notable proponent of Boer self determination BUT he has made another odd statement in the past such as when he was QUICK to tell the New York Times in 2002 that the fictional Boeremag were a Boer resistance group when not a single fact ever pointed to it ever being anything of the sort nor was it even an authentic group. Its alleged leader Tom Vorster was exposed as a double agent working for the State & had ties to the American CIA. [ Noted in a SABC article - click for snapshot. ] Perhaps Fred means well BUT he has demonstrated that he is QUICK to make bold statements before the facts are in. I think his talk about using the Commando System was just typical bravado aimed at frightening the government. "Funding the commando system" sounds like a government talking point because the commando system is a VOLUNTARY system - it is not "funded". Looks like the State trotted out this fake so called "extreme Right Wing" group [ hint: extreme Right Wing groups are funded by the State & are often run directly by State agents ] for the purpose of insinuating a "terrorist threat" to the State which is an OLD formula States routinely use to justify their crackdown on disfavoured group.

The fact that none other than Max Du Preez conducted the interview should have been your first clue. The fact that the so called " Right Wing" [ translation: the State arm of the nationalist wing of controlled opposition ] AGREES with the ANC that it is a "destabilizing force" should tell you something. The fact that it appears to have been WORKING to this end should tell you something. This is reminiscent of & very similar to how the AWB was trotted out for the purpose of discrediting & destroying the cause of Boer & macro Afrikaans self determination.

Great point Viking @ 5:06. People tend to forget that ANC attacks against farmers started in the 1980s when the "petty Apartheid" laws were abolished as folks were now free to roam about akin to the what was happening in the eastern Cape prior to the Great Trek.

Furthermore the so called Dutch blogger is far more than that as she is a former professional South African journalist. The data on her blogs comes STRAIGHT from the numerous police & news reports on the matter & she posts LINKS to the various reports

____________

Rubbish. You clearly have never double checked her "sources". I make it all clear on the blog :

www.listconspiracy.blogspot.com

Don't be so blind that you just won't see. She was also married to a reknown volkstaater.

Your last posts is far closer to the bone than you know. Ironic that people who unwittingly support these "far right" groups play right into the states hands (or even worse, the pupeteers of the state).

Lets just say that we disagree on the point of genocide Ron. Accusing people of being agent provocateurs would be easy without proof as we could lay the same charge at some of the blogs on the internet as well.

The only agent provocateur that has been proven in all of what you had said was Tom Foster as he had admitted that in court. As for Niemoller and the AWB only time will tell even though the charge had been laid at the door of the AWB by many before.

One point though of interest as you claim all to be agent provocateurs. Who would in this genocide as you call it, would be the group in charge - the ANC or the whites themselves? If the aim lets say is to get farmers off the land - what is the broader aim then? To starve all the countries citizens to death? Is that in itself then not the preparation stages of a mass genocide of ALL South Africans?

The ANC can hardly run a municipality, could they really run anything as complex as a mass genocide of an entire country?

@Islandshark

ILSA does not level death threats at posters. That was SASucks who got shut down by the guy in PE as they threated to kill him.

We will never agree on everything but I do not see the day where we will want to kill each other or level death threats against anyone who disagrees.

As I said before, the battle lines are going to be interesting as there is alot of skullduggery going on. We might not always agree but even then, we all get to learn. South Africa is a complex country and when you add emotion to a debate it pollutes the facts.

It was PW Botha who said that it made no difference if you shot the white or the black line. The Zebra still dies. If you are claiming a genocide then I firstly want to know what the broader aim is. That I cannot do unless I ask questions.

I have tried to debate with Rooster on his blog, but this just resulted in him throwing insults at me. It ended with Afrikaners/boere being called nut jobs for believing that the ANC is responsible for farm attacks. He also mentioned the number of boer farmers as 150 000. Problem is I got the document I think he might have been working from and it only differentiates between commercial farmers and subsistence farmers. Commercial farmers alone being 40 000+ and if it includes the others between 150 and 200 000. However, farm attacks are a reality and I found two documents which may be interesting to read. From the ISS website I found links to these documents which were drafted by a committee assembled to specifically investigate farm attacks. it is a bit dated, but there are still some interesting comments and allegations. As can be expected, there are denials, but because of the various groups who contributed, certain stats and figures as well as allegations should make for an interesting debate. There are references to the reasons for the attacks as well as confirmation that these attacks are brutal in nature and motivated by hate. There are also other allegations, but go read it and read it carefully.

I wish this myth that the apartheid government was responsible for hundreds and thousands of deaths would stop. The ANC controlled TRC and the HRC determined that the apartheid government was responsible for 7,000 deaths during its 42 years rule.

This brings us to 167 deaths per year.

Hardly worthy of an lofted eyebrow.The proof is freely available on the TRC website.

At the end of the day most of these blogs want to bring farm attacks to the international audience. The problem is that most people who have power are moderates or left leaning moderates. You have to cater to the audience if you want attention. Otherwise it is like speaking Swahili to an American.

1. Credible Information

Most of these blogs rest of the stats collected by a Dutch blogger who was a former journalist. The problem is that she was also a poster/moderator of SASucks who spread fake farm murder pictures over a year ago. Now the question comes to the fore about impartiality not her skill level with regards to the stats. Nobody seams to understand this concept.

2. Genocide

I don't see a genocide unless we want to go down the line of calling everyone an agent provocateur and this goes back where Islandhsark took it - conspiracy theory. It is difficult to debunk known facts but very easy to kick aside conspiracies.

We do know for a fact that the ANC wants the land this is why the Expropriation Act was setup as it was. This does not prove that there is a "Boer Genocide" as there is no evidence to prove that. You cannot sell what you cannot prove.

3. Boer Genocide : Error in perception

Why this went from farm murders to a 'Boer Genocide' I do not know. It was the worst marketing blunder anyone made. The old Broederbond was talented enough to ensure that people globally and in South Africa thought and still think that Boers ruled under apartheid.

Your problem is now calling it a 'Boer Genocide' which leaves most thinking that why the hell should anyone care about the rulers of apartheid being killed. See the comment from "Cottonwood". Bet you his/her reason for that comment would have reflected what I just said.

Look at the front page of this blog today. Two articles listing 'Boer Genocide' and the article right on the top is Islandshark saying that apartheid was better than African tribalism. What does your average 'Cottonwood' think - you are trying to justify apartheid and crying below because you are getting killed because of it. It does not get the message across and it is only the 'Cottonwood's' who can make a difference as they are in the majority.

4. Lost Credibility

Once you loose credibility its difficult to get it back. I am not talking about this blog but perception of 'White South Africans'. Islandshark was correct that on that SAS blog they gave me hell. You see I did not loose anything in the process. What it did highlight was the arrogance and at times downright meanness of White South Africans. I took the shots but I did not lose at the end of the day as YOU as white South Africans did. You reflected your evil side. Who cares then? Allow me to interject one interesting observation.

5. Pastor Martin Niemöller

An interesting observation was both as you Islandshark and TIA-Mysoa. Noting I asked him about it on his blog.

While everyone else was kicking me around with some of the most racist crap any baboon could come up with - you said nothing neither did he. Even when you might have disagreed.

This brings to the fore Paster Niemöller.

When they came for the Zulu I said I was not a Zulu why should I care?

When they came for the Hotnot you said I am not a Hotnot why should I care?

When they came for the Boer, there was nobody left to care.

These blogs are in my view becoming divisive and doing more harm than good. Truth be told I have had enough of double speak and hate. I need to move on. I will wait for the collapse of SA and see where we go from there. Remember you never know who reads these blogs.

Sorry for that Rooster. When i checked last night my comment wasn't posted and this morning it was and between the comments which were already posted last night...so you see the reason for my conclusion. Be that as it my, apart from this, i pretty much stand on what I have said thus far.

I still think the ANC is responsible for farm attacks. There is no direct physical evidence to prove it, but then neither is there any evidence to disprove it either. If you consider that the tactics are similar to those utilized during apartheid, that the ANC had their own death camps during apartheid, that historically, the ANC and their supporter always revert to violence in order to get their way, the number of incidents and level of brutality and lastly the ANC's inability (unwillingness) to do anything about it, it is then not that unfeasible a proposition that it is organized and that farmers are being targeted. Again, to a foreigner it would look like like something is going on, maybe we are just getting used to the high level of violence and crime and dont see it anymore.

My fault: your comment was dumped in the Spam folder, as happens sometimes for no apparent reason. It can be annoying....

I agree wholeheartedly with your latest, btw. The ANC can't spend billions of Rand "redistributing" land to its supposed "rightful owners" without some sort of backlash against white farmers. Simply, they share the guilt, which is what happens when you scapegoat a whole load of people.There is also little doubt that, for the Marxist, violence is always on the table as a means to achieve his goals.

@ Viking: No problem. I was referring to Rooster's site. This morning when I checked I saw my comment was posted between comments which were already posted the night before. (your morning I suppose lol)

Anyway, the ANC is clever enough to keep alive the impression that they haven't lost the moral high ground, even though they already have, thanks to their excellent propaganda machine and whites who deny SA's reality. As a result the international community is still under the impression that the ANC is compassionate and forgiving. That is why blogs like this one are so important. It bypasses main stream media and it serves to inform the world.

Rooster. First - your methodology is SEVERELY lacking & downright INCORRECT because you admitted that you used a software program that only counted the BULLETS [ which were only next to SOME of the names ] then made the BASELESS claim that this incomplete count somehow represented the ENTIRE list of victims. Therefore you are engaging in a cheap stunt hoping that no one will catch your clever manipulative trick of only counting the bullets while OMITTING THE OTHER numerous [ non bulleted ] names on the list. Rooster: you are more sly & tricky than you accuse Stuijt of erroneously being. Shame on you! Furthermore: your zeal to deny this genocide & the slip shod methodology that you used OUTSTRIPS the zeal of Fred Rundle in erroneously claiming that the Boeremag was an authentic Boer resistance group.

Rooster quote: [ Short of counting them I inserted the list into microsoft word and numbered the bullets and checked to see it wasn't missing anything. ]

Folks he ADMITS that he has not even counted the names on the list but only used a software program to count only the bullets. Remember a huge amount of names do not appear next to bullets. Ergo Rooster is engaging in a deceptive trick here by attempting to pass off the bullets as a complete list. I can not believe how some folks have fallen for Rooster's trick.

Furthermore whether there are non farmers on the list or not is irrelevant to the fact that farmers are specifically targeted. One must be cognizant of the fact that victims will spill over into the non farming communities. Genocide Watch investigated the region & determined that the killing of Boer farmers constitutes a genocide under the Genocide Convention.

The notion that some victims are not White is yet another propagandistic device Rooster uses to imply that only White victims would constitute a legitimate genocide while ignoring the fact that many farm workers are targeted & that there is a MACRO genocide occurring against all of South Africa's peoples as rightly long since pointed out by the folks at Stop Boer Genocide.com. The Boer genocide is simply part of a larger genocidal strategy aimed at culling the bulk of the general population. But since the Boer farming community are facing the brunt of the genocide: they are experiencing the harshest affects of it. The killing of other ethnic groups does not negate it because the Boer community are SMALL in numbers hence are most affected by the genocide as their numbers will disappear faster than those of other groups. This fact seems to get lost on some folks.

The fact that these killings go back to the 1980s only STRENGTHENS the assertion of genocide. I do not know how this "lessens" the fact when it demonstrates that the genocide has longer roots. This explains the odd denial on the part of Jim Beam as I EASILY recognized the SAME talking points found within Rooster's deceptive non-rebuttal rebuttal.

Jim you have been taken in by a well known anti-Afrikaans [ even though he claims to be part Afrikaans ] con artist. There will have to be a rebuttal website put up to point out the slip shot methodology employed by Rooster. The methodology was based on an entirely incorrect premise & is akin to counting only SOME of the names on the list.

As for the odd line:"married to a renown Volkstaater". First you provide no evidence to support your claim. Furthermore: it would be IRRELEVANT to the facts at hand. Further marginalizing this odd desperate point would be the fact that most Boer people [ even a lot of Afrikaners ] could be similarly described as Volkstaaters due to the findings a a poll showing their overwhelming support for such a concept.

Jim Beam. A South African author named Peter Stiff mentioned in his book War by Other Means that Eugene Terre'Blanche was recruited by the Security Police in the use of "dramatic speech" for the purposes of being used as dragnet in order to neutralize extra parliamentary opposition & the AWB folks who set bombs off [ given to them by State double agents ] in 1994 were CAUGHT VERY QUICKLY due to the State manipulated & false flag nature of the event.

The folks in charge of the genocide - at least in the abstract as day to day things would be delegated - would know doubt be the intelligence communities [ not just local but Western as well ] because they have the means to prevent it but choose not to proving their culpability as this genocide could stopped tomorrow if the intelligence communities wanted to stop it. The various governments are just puppets but they obviously promote folks who will be amenable or on board to allowing genocidal conditions.

To understand to full agenda one must read up on the Malthusian population agenda which is an old published plan to reduce the global population mainly in order to facilitate the implementation of a Global Police State. That is the MAIN reason why the new dispensation in South Africa was implemented. So as to make the region intergrateable into the planed Global State. The ANC does not have to actively run anything because their compromised status / ineffectiveness & general tolerance of the high crime rate does most of the work for allowing genocide to occur.

Now as to your point 3 in your other post. The President of Genocide Watch uses the term Boer Genocide. This is an accurate term for it as its main victims are Boers & farmers. Without the presence of the Boers in the equation the genocide would be much less noticeable because the ruling elite fear Boer land claims as it scuppers their agenda in the region. Therefore they reason that they must get rid of the Boers first to neutralize their opposition to the ruling elite's agenda of continued mineral exploitation of the region. Then once the Boers are out of the way the larger genocide against the rest of the population will intensify within the whole region.

Of course you already know that the Boers were not the rulers during Apartheid but that was an impression created by the Afrikaner appropriation of Boer history & heritage & the unfortunate fact that many folks were calling the rulers "Boers" in the derogatory sense of the term as misappropriated by some. I thought I set the record straight concerning this at 13:20. As you probably already know: I did not condone the bizarre over the top scorched earth tactics & invective of the SAS blog which always seemed to be more interested in trying to propagate a one dimensional & damaging racial dialectic than actually dealing with real issues on a purely intellectual merit. Any notable points they made from time to time got totally lost in the unnecessary ocean of vitriol. They had an odd habit of making enemies out of just about anyone over often trivial issues & even turning on their own. Someone once speculated that they were "a false flag blog" aimed at discrediting legitimate criticism of South African policies & government. Because those that try to discredit legitimate criticism of South African regimes have used the antics of that blog in an effort to tar everyone with the same brush. I still can not believe how they threatened & provoked Rendier to the point where he [ of all people as free speech is his foundation ] ended up being the latest person to shut them down. One would think that one would want to AVOID angering [ or rather making even MORE angry - but that was part of the attraction of his Youtube videos ] someone as prone to anger as he - but live & learn I guess. The irony is that they were described as a rage blog who met their demise from a fellow rager. There is a lesson in that.

What irony to see Rooster making the claims he makes when any rudimentary investigation into them only shows the HE is the one who is lying as he deliberately uses a BAD methodology which purposely OMITS large numbers of the names on the list. This was his intellectual attempt at denying a reality which has long since been confirmed by the EXPERTS on genocide. Few will ever take the word of a well known anti-Boer blogger over that of an expert in the field of genocide who has personally investigated matter for himself & has concluded that the killing of Boer farmers constitutes a genocide under the Genocide Convention.

Firstly you are over simplifying the evidence. I did not only bullet it and count it . I went over the process carefully to ensure no names are left out. There are not over 3000 names on that list boet. There are around 1200.

And you don't mention the names I showed to not be dead. And you ignored the fact that if they are not all whites or farmers why pretend they are ? And you ignore the fact that there are names on that list before 1994.

I am not being tricky in my site. I am just showing you that she is a liar. Jim Bean posted a wonderful post showing how this does harm to the credibility of your cause. "Boer" issues never get taken seriously because you just keep on crying wolf or lying. I sometimes think these people who pretend to want to help you are actually against you. Some kind of agenda to divide and rule people.

Please be honest enough to tell the people that she has (on purpose) lied. If you deny this under the clear evidence I have shown (like the tourists who were robbed , or the two marcs who were involved in a road rage incident ...yet she claims they were "farm murdered") then why should they take you seriously ?

I am not Anti Boer. Stop putting up strawmen. I am from pure trek boer heritage although I was educated entirely in English schools and universities. I am in hernetly self depreciating and introspective and hence more often criticise aspects within my own culture. This is called "personal responsblity." I expect the same from other people including blacks.

Rooster, you go out of your way to self depreciate and be introspective of Afrikaans speaking SAffers while only throwing a cursory glance at the corruption of the ANC government and the violence and murder pandemic in this country. Maybe you should use your valuable time more productively and condemn the real problem and not focus so much on the "gripes" of a minority. The fact that you focus sooooooooo much on the "gripes" of a minority tells me you either grew up hating Afrikaners or there is some other agenda at play. Anyway, I dont know you. All i know is you love to insult people and make fun of "Boere".

Well someone has to. We take ourselves and their culture way too seriously. It stops us relating to the world in a healthy manner. And it's mostly a joke. Do you really think I want Afrikaners used as street signs. Come on.

And what good is me criticising the A.N.C going to do ? Fuck the government man. I've always been a bit of a libetarian/anarchist. It's relations between people that counts. Politicians only try divide us. Fuck them. Fuck the A.N.C, fuck the D.A fuck the P.A.C, fuck the IFP, Fuck the ID, fuck the FF. Fuck them all. They are all no good.

Rooster. What you forget is that there are hundreds of MORE names that appear at he END of the page which are not part of the alphabetical list at the top.

Those names that you LEFT OUT OF YOUR TALLY are found within those news items posted in block form towards the END of the page. There are also other numerous names not part of the alphabetical list. Further many of those news stories contain MULTIPLE murder victims [ ie: with titles like Four Dead... ] Therefore you methodology was STILL flawed because not all of the victims were included on the alphabetical list at the top.

Furthermore: no one ever claimed that the alphabetical list was a COMPLETE list of the victims. Therefore you can not claim that the death toll is incorrect when the list itself is incomplete as evidenced by the ADDITIONAL names mentioned on the page but not part of the actual list.

Speaking of straw man arguments: no one is "pretending" that all the victims are White as numerous other groups are being killed on farms as well but the Boers are particularly targeted. Your argument is based on bad logic as you accuse her of "lying" based on the fact that the alphabetical list is incomplete [ while deliberately ignoring the OTHER names found within the short news excerpts on the same page ] or that some victims are of other ethnic groups.

I find it all rather curious that you seek to impugn her reputation based on straw man arguments that the alphabetical list is a complete list [ when it is clearly a work in progress ] while ignoring the stark reality of the genocide. Furthermore one of the stages of genocide happens to be DENIAL. Therefore you are actually now an ACTIVE part of the genocide & are an intellectual enabler of it now.

No. Read it again. The names under the list are just links to names in the list. I know some of you have some sick desire and wish that more people were killed on farms that actually are, but the truth doesn't agree.

No you should read it again as Jakobus Cornelius is not on the list but is mentioned later on the same page along with others so once again you neglect the fact that the list is incomplete. Nitpicking over the fact that the lit is not complete is not a legitimate criticism of the genocide as it has been documented & confirmed by Genocide Watch.

Who the hell here wants there to be even MORE people killed & attacked on the farms?! The State certainly wishes this: but why would anyone who is campaigning AGAINST genocide want MORE killing & genocide? Once again you employ some bizarre logic.

With every added death - it only further destroys any hope of stopping total genocide & with it goes any hope of ever finding any self determination. Are you suggesting that those who are campaigning against genocide are just double agents really working in FAVOUR of genocide? And that they are really GLAD that the killings are occurring? That is a truly BIZARRE assertion to make considering how those campaigning against the genocide are putting their lives on the line & are CONSTANTLY being censored for trying to get the truth out. The publicizing of the genocide is to get it to STOP. Not to encourage it or to endorse it. Rooster: you constantly astound us with your contrarian & warped logic.

At best a few names aren't in the list. These can easily be balanced out by the "farmer : details unkown" that are in the list. And the only time names are ommitted to state "4 people" etc when it is non whites. Apparently they're just a number.

Rooster, "I know some of you have some sick desire and wish that more people were killed on farms that actually are, but the truth doesn't agree." No we are actually trying to do the opposite! People like you who simply deny that the problem exists are making the problem worse. Its quite sickening to see the extent that you go through to actually deny that this problem exists. Could you please kind enough to explain the following article, if no such problem exists, http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Govt-looking-at-improving-farm-security-20110224Are you going to come up with some excuse or other now?

People like you who simply deny that the problem exists are making the problem worse. Its quite sickening to see the extent that you go through to actually deny that this problem exists. Could you please kind enough to explain the following article, if no such problem exists, http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Govt-looking-at-improving-farm-security-20110224Are you going to come up with some excuse or other now? __________

Ron I never said the problem doesn't exist. Stop this idiotic polar thinking. Just because I don't think there's a genocide does not mean that I deny there are farm murders. Two entirely different things all together.

It's not right for someone to lie about murders and be sensational and hyperbolic about it simply to cause race hate. Paint it anyway you like.

And when you get angry that I show that there are less farm murders than suggested it's really ironic. Surely if you care about farmers this would please you ?

Rooster: you are distorting once again as there is even a list of non White & Black people there too not just a list of White people. Your notion that the "list is a bunch of crap" is telling because the list should be troubling or concerning. Not "a bunch of crap". The denial of genocide is the bunch of crap.

Before you comment again and call me a whole bunch of names, do me a favour mate. Read my accustations then double check on her list to see if I am correct or not. That's all I'm asking. If you carry out this little exercise the truth will become evident and we can stop going in circles.

I'm sorry if the entire cause you spend every waking hour fighting for is built on a pack of lies. But don't take it out of me for simply shyowing you the truth.

That list is around 1200 people. Most who are not farmers. Many who are not white, or even dead. And many that happened before 1994. Many were also not killed by black people (but I admit I have not written about this yet, so let's not state that as fact until I have linked to the edidence.)

Various members of your "truth" movement have in their own way admitted that the list is highly flawed including "sarah" and "Tia". I have had to deal with a massive level of back pedaling the past few days.

Now that obviously doesn't mean in any way there is anything acceptable about farm murders. Certainly there are horrific farm murders that are racially carried out. It's just not relatively speaking to the problems other groups face in the country quite as prominent an issue as some people are making out. The predictions of white persecution made during and after apartheid by the volkstaters have not come into being.

When all is said and done if someone makes a claim I deserve my freedom to look at it skeptically. There are people who want me killed for this.

Looks like some posts were not posted before I commented earlier. Rooster: you are starting to loose it because you are quoting Sean & ascribing his post to myself. I know you admit that there are farm murders & I know that you deny that it is a genocide. Since you are addressing his post to me I will answer it anyway. No one is being "sensational" about the farm murders. Please go look up the word "sensational" before lobbing that term around. The "race hatred" is DEMONSTRABLY on the part of the killers [ go read the new reports ] not on the part of those who are only trying to INFORM & report on the killings. Once again you are using a straw man argument. Get angry? Looks like you are exhibiting a guilty conscious or something. Am I SUPPOSED to be angry? Well you are the one denying genocide. That could certainly be viewed as offensive to the victims & their families. But you have not shown anything of the sort. All you did was claim that there was "no genocide" based SOLELY on the fact that the list as compiled by Censorbugbear is an incomplete list. Even if there are only 1 199 victims [ as per the tally of the list as compiled by CB ] IT STILL CONSTITUTES a genocide as their numbers are dwindling at an alarming rate & much FASTER than other groups. That is what a genocide is! But the fact of the matter is that there have bee well over 3 000 reported farm murder victims & the list on her site is a WORK IN PROGRESS. There are OTHER sites with their own lists.

Rooster quote: [ How many must die before your blood lust is satiated Ron ? ] WTF?! So now you resort to demagogic & bombastic insults? Alright NOW I am angry! You are purposely insulting folks for simply calling attention to the genocide. You are now in the same company as neo Nazis. I am trying to STOP this genocide! Not accelerate it. Having people killed in these numbers DESTROYS the cause of Boer self determination as it gets rid of the national group in question. Do you not see [ Nazi indeed! ] that? This question more accurately applies to you: How many must die before you admit there is a genocide occurring? Or do you "lust" after the macro State & its privileges too much?

Call you "a whole bunch of names? Rooster: what the hell are you rambling on about? I called you an intellectual enabler of genocide & noted that you use warped logic. But to you that is "name calling"? Sir [ & I use that term lightly ] YOU are the one engaging in name calling & are taking the odious position of denying genocide & are now even race baiting. All these are just DISTRACTIONS from the fact farmers are being killed far out of proportion to their numbers within the general population.

Rooster: you are entitled to look skeptically at anything. But what you are doing here is propagating & downright shilling for a discredited belief that there is "no genocide" when the EXPERTS on the field have THOROUGHLY INVESTIGATED THE MATTER & concluded that the killing of Boer farmers constitutes a genocide. News reports every day point to this. Those are the cold hard facts. Not whether ONE documentarian of the genocide's list is complete are what race all the killers were because those are distractions from the issue of genocide. The list of ONE documentarian is not & should not be the issue here because Censorbugbear is only ATTEMPTING to document the genocide & can not POSSIBLY list every single person particularly when many victims go unreported & when victims are growing all the time. For the record. I take my cue from the investigation performed by Genocide Watch. Furthermore: I have been following this ever since before the 60 Minutes program of CBS reported this back in 1999. The list of names was fast approaching 1 000 back then therefore it is illogical & unacademic to presume that it has not progressed from that count considering the near daily reports of more victims. Rooster: you are employing faulty logic here because nitpicking over the minutiae of ONE documentarian's INCOMPLETE list [ which she even notes herself ] does not negate the confirmed fact & the independent FINDING that the White farmers are being killed FAR OUT OF PROPORTION to their numbers within the general population.