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Wednesday, May 24, 2006

My Stand on Reservations I

My love-hate affair with this issue has been tumultuous.I started off on a vehement ‘anti-reservation’ stand as a young boy and fought many debates with my Dad.I left India to pursue my higher studies when I was twenty, and over time having known the world to some extent, slowly converted to become a strong ‘pro-reservation’ proponent.

This is my attempt to unravel my own understanding of the issue of reservations.

Why did our forefathers moot the idea of implementing reservations in Indian education system?

The idea of reservations was mooted to rectify the Indian social system which was far more debilitating than the Indian economic system.For centuries, spanning nearly two thousand years, a large section of India was persecuted, discriminated and ostracized by a minority community on the name of caste.Caste was and is inviolable to all Indians- it was decided two thousand years ago for all generations to come.Contrast this with a feudal system- a farmer can become a landlord in 2-3 generations and thus completely change his social status.In a religious system, one can espouse a new religion to escape persecution.But in a caste system, one cannot change his caste and hence will continue to be discriminated for generations.This inviolable and deeply entrenched caste system in India was used to ostracize and oppress a low caste majority by the high caste minority, keeping them out of all social systems- education, religion, business, administration, employment, etc, and this was carried out systematically through many centuries.

Our forefathers came up with the idea of reservations in education system and employment to bridge this huge gap between different sections in India which was so starkly divided on caste lines.Education and employment was the sole weapon used by high caste to oppress the low caste.Hence the idea of reservations was mooted in education and employment to force the Indian institutes and administrative offices to recruit low caste so that a balance can be achieved over a period of time.However, that time period was grossly underestimated by our forefathers.In practice, it is turning out to be a longer and much harder exercise for India to implement reservations.The newer upper caste generations growing up in urban and protected environs never experience, contact or know what it means to be born a Dalit and hence they are now fighting tooth and nail against implementation of reservations.

A poor high caste person could escape poverty within a generation or two through education or employment, but a Dalit, however willing or determined he was, he couldn’t get admission to a school and hence could not get the means to overcome that poverty.When such a pogrom is carried out on such a mass scale cutting across regions and languages of India to become a highly efficient and well-oiled machine of blatant and flagrant discrimination in the name of caste, it induces a social handicap.That handicap cannot be overcome by scholarships, free admission and free lunches.It has to be tackled much more aggressively by reserving certain seats so that the oppressed can walk in, may be with trepidation and diffidence, to become self-confident over a period of time so as to go back and encourage others from his families to come in trickles and then in hordes to espouse education and employment which they believe is denied to them.

Did reservations help anyone?

Yes. The statistics prove again and again that more and more SC/ST/OBC are entering the mainstream of India.They were almost completely absent in educational institutes, government offices, administration, etc, during the time of independence.The idea of reservations was to bring these people into mainstream and it is achieving its purpose, though not at the pace it was originally intended.It only means that it has to be made more effective and has to be carried out for a longer time than originally intended.

Look at the southern states of India.Andhra Pradesh, Kerala, Tamil Nadu and Karnataka have been implementing reservations for quite some time now and they are one of the most developed states in India, where the literacy levels are the highest, population growth is the lowest, and now, even the business is flourishing.

We have been able to have a Dalit for a Vice-President of India. Chief Ministers, Governors, IAS officers, administrators, and bureaucrats. Many officers are hailing from lower castes of India.But are we there yet? Not really. We still have a long way to go to correct the deeply entrenched social system which still discriminates and ostracizes lower castes in rural and tribal areas where a major chunk of Indian population resides.

A study done by the IITs themselves shows that 50 per cent of the IIT seats for the SCs and STs remain vacant, and for the remaining 50 per cent, 25 per cent are the candidates who even after six years fail to get their degrees. So, clearly, in their case, reservations are not working

Dear Anonymous (1):I agree that there is no direct correlation. If the worry is that reservations actually impede 'quality', how come the states with reservations actually show signs on improvement? Isn't reservations a progressive thinking? Isn't affirmative action in US progressive? How come the companies that promote affirmative actions vociferously are the ones doing the best on the planet?Though there is no direct correlation, there is enough evidence which suggests that maturity of an organization or a state is reflected in how you treat your discriminated and downtrodden classes.

That's because Mandal has studied this problem in detail. He saw that this loop hole was being misused. His observation was that many seats go unfilled because there are many other methods by which the candidates are not filled up so that they can be used for forward castes. He put a rule that if such a thing happens, the vacancy has to be rolled to the next years (upto three years). This is to push the authorities to bring more SC/ST/OBC into the fold instead of finding excuses and use it as loop hole to push forward castes into it. More on this from Mandal. I did not author it.

It was because of the Education drive initiated in this state 40 years ago..... by the MID DAY MEAL PROGRAM. (please check this link to know more http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mid-day_meals)

What happened in Tamil nadu is quite simple........

The then chief minister Kamarajar made the children from backward communities to study in the schools.... by providing free meals.... and scholarships and jobs

Thus came a generation of teachers and clerks in the 70s and 80s from these communities . The children of those people (teachers and clerks and other educated people) are able to compete with the forward class students.....

So We can safely conclude that reservation has UPLIFTED the down trodden........

In few years, there will be a scenario where the seats in the open category are grabbed by students in ratio that reflects the general population........ When we reach such a state, That is an indication that there is no forward community and no backward community.....

For example

When there are 100 seats if the backward community students are able to take 75 of them and the SC/ST 20 of them and Forward Community 5 of them (5% of population is Forward, 20 % is SC and 75 % is Backward) it is the time to stop reservation

I totally agree with Doctor Bruno when he says that racist attitude of the teachers of IIT (or for that matter any other institute) who give the toughest assignments to the SC students and fail them purposefully. In fact the premise behind reservation as a mechanism to of "uplifting" people is basically WRONG one. The correct premise behind the Constitutional reservation - that it is a countervailing measure by the state against the socio-cultural disability of Indian society to treat people from the untouchable/oppressed castes as its own. It is a mechanism to ensure that the "deserving people" from these oppressed castes get their due share because otherwise the deep entrenched socio-cultural prejudice will never let them have it as can be seen in the sectors where this mechanism does not exist. It is a mechanism with which the rights of certain sections of society are PROTECTED, because left to itself society is incapable of doing it. It is not the disability of the dalits/oppressed but the disability of "Indian society" that necessitates reservation.

How can you explain that an SC student was denied admission to M.Tech course in IIT Delhi by giving lame excuse of not being suitable after the interview despite high GATE score ?

Let me emphasise once again - Reservation is NOT to uplift underprivileged class, it is to protect deserving candidates of opperessed class due right and share because otherwise the deep entrenched socio-cultural prejudice will never let them have it.

Very interesting article. I would like to contribute my bit to the whole reservation saga.

As Doctor bruno correctly pointed the case of TamilNadu, the Mid Day Meal program and other corrective measures were targeted around 40 years back and we see the results now, but are we missing out the most important fact that these were adopted at the Primary Education Level. What does it imply, providing good education right from the beginning inculcates in the social backward a competitive sprit, makes him/her work diligently towards a better future. And hence you can see the results, the most deserving people (note irrespective or Caste or creed) get seats into Medical and Engineering colleges!

There should be reservation policy for sure to uplift the socially backward, but it should be applied at the root level which is primary education and at higher levels there should be no discrimination based on Caste or Creed. That way we can rule out any racisicm displayed by IIT professors or "FORWARD CASTE PEOPLE"!! There will not be such huge hue and cry about reservation amongst any socially forward.

I strongly feel the reason why 50% of the SC/ST seats remains vacant is the lack of proper primary education. All said and done, anything that you get for free loses its value and isn’t that happening to most of the socially backward?? Seats are being offered to them in silver platter and no takers. Why not attack the root cause of the entire "reservation" issue by making primary and secondary education free or at a nominal charges for the so called "socially backward" community, and that will ensure that at least the coming generations knows how to compete for an IIT seat or an IIM seat and may the Best and the most deserving student Win the Race!!!

1. {spanning nearly two thousand years, a large section of India was persecuted, discriminated and ostracized by a minority community on the name of caste}: The ostracism was not based on caste but it was based on the profession. The people who were ostracised, or kept outside the village were mainly Chandals and Gypsies. People who were ostracised were mainly because their adopted profession didn't fall into 4 major categories of earning the livelihood (which today's people wrongly call as caste). And in that time, because the profession ran in the bloodline, their children were automatically ostracised. So conceptually, certain professions were deemed as anti-social or non-conforming to norms of society(according to beliefs of that time) and it was thought best to keep such people outside the community. So no-such-hyped exploitation were done.

2. {But in a caste system, one cannot change his caste and hence will continue to be discriminated for generations): Again this logic falls flat because caste was not deemed by birth, but it was by profession. These categories were not initiated by Hindu religion, but were part of Vedic society (and if you don't know the difference between Hinduism and Vedism then apint your face black. In Vedas, it's clearly written that the person will be identified only by his/her knowledge and means of eaning livelihood.

3. (oppress a low caste majority by the high caste minority): In times (of which you are talking), low caste (i'll speak caste as you understand) were in fact minority and high caste were majority because of more equitable distribution of wealth. So no case of minority and majority. Further I don't understand ny what do you mean by oppression. Everybody, irrespective of his bloodline was entitled to gain knowledge. Ancient universities didn't have reservations for higher caste you dumb einstein.

4. {Our forefathers came up with the idea of reservations in education system and employment to bridge this huge gap between different sections}: No forefather of yours came with idea of reservations in education and employement read your constitution first. it states only that both Central and State Governments should make provisions to protect interests of backward classes (not castes) and work for their upliftment. CASTE and RESERVATION were the illicit childred of illiterate voters and illiterate politicians.

5. {Education and employment was the sole weapon used by high caste to oppress the low caste.}; Ok why do you need to oppress pople who are good for nothing (as your article them to be). What can I gain by oppressing a destitute who canno give me anything. he's poor, he's illiterate, he's unemployed. tell me one good reason that an upper high caste rich guy will oppress him? have you seen any robber (supposedly high caste people) will loot a poor man (supposedly low caste guy)?

6. Rest of your article talks only crap without stating any facts or establishing any causal relation. Don't know your linege but tou definitely are a candidate for reservation. May Arjun Singh Bless You!!!

I wish to bring to your attention that many backward castes, most backward caste listed in Tamil Nadu's reserved caste category speak language other than Tamil. The list is seen Tamil Nadu website http://www.tn.gov.in/bcmbcmw/bclist.htm

These includes countless communities where Telugu is spoken at home, also several Kannada speaking caste and Urdu Muslim communities who essentially speak Hindi.

The chairman of Tamil Nadu's minority commision is Pyarelal Jain appointed by Karunanidhi, a Hindi-speaking Jain.

Tamil Brahmins despite being the "biggest scoundrels" according to Karunanidhi are still Tamils. How is that Karunanidhi is reaching out even to North Indians for votes by printing Hindi pamphlets in last election. Why is DMK hating Tamil Brahmins but at the sametime reaching out for North Indians residing in TN.

Many CBSE schools in Tamil Nadu continue to impose Hindi (as compulsory subject), while Tamil can be conveniently skipped. This is sharp contrast to Karnataka where all schools including CBSE school which dont teach Kannada as compulsory subject will be de-recognized. Karunanidhi has come to power the 4th time now. Still the Hindi impositition in CBSE flourishes.

Why are Tamil Nadu's ports of entry i.e airports and ports staffed by people who speak Hindi and dont know Tamil?

Why has Karunidhi failed on his promise to have mandatory Tamil annoucements on all Tamil Nadu flights.

Recently there was court case against use of Tamil as official language in TN and also opposition. Many people who oppose this are also covered under Tamil Nadu reservation.

Why are evils such as 2-tumbler system and seperate well system so prevelent in Southern TN where there is virtually no 'scoundrel' Brahmins left. It seems that amoung BC caste there is lot of descrimination and Dalits are still suffering while the bloody TN govt, Karunidhi etc are wantonly ignoring and supporting this.

It all looks like that the reservation policy is the most convenient means by "Tamil" politicians to destroy Tamil, Tamil society for their personal gains.

Tamil patriots would have done something great if they had reservation for one Tamil caste in TN rather than commercial certificates which many non-Tamil speaker can purchase.

You have magnificently confused correlation with causation. The reason behind more and more "backward caste" people coming into mainstream is because of increasing freedom and liberalisation in the city (an to an extent rural) life. I hate to say this but this reminds me of the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster>Flying Spaghetti Monster, where global warming was shown to be the effect of decreasing number of pirates.

Also, the reason reservation didn't work is because it was fundamentally wrong to start with. Just because it was started by forefathers, doesn't mean it was a correct step. You don't need to be superstitious about your ancestors, especially when they are of political lineage.

There is hardly any correlation between reservation and intelligence. Reservation can only affect opportunity. So there is no question of "impeding", etc. By saying "how come the states with reservations actually show signs on improvement?", you committed the biggest blunder ever I came across on your blog. It's so funny for me that I don't even need to discuss how stupid an argument this is.

Doctor Bruno's comments are just a figment of imagination. Being in one of the IITs myself, I can assure you that I have not come across any case of discrimination against the "backward castes". In fact, I was horrified to learn that one of the professor was given death threat by a "backward caste" student, but nothing was done against the student because of the political backlash it would have generated by the proponents of reservations in Indian politics. In another instance, a professor was made to apologise publicly for his action that was definitely meant to save the life (or at least a permanent handicap) of a student.

Nowhere it is mentioned that "backward caste" community members have lower intelligence. In fact, the first President's Gold Medalist from IIT Kharagpur (the institute topper of 1955 batch) was a "backward caste" student, and of course, he didn't even need a reservation to get into the IITs.

In the end, I would close with a sad note that I won't be following your blogs any more because of the regular disappointment you have been to me. For future, please remember that you still need to demonstrate that caste-based reservations are essential, using logically sound arguments.

PS: You would have noted that I always use quotes around "backward caste", this is because I strongly feel that while people can be forward or backward, no caste is backward. This is just a political construct.

Better late than never! I read your article now and thought I should let know my opinion as well.

For one, your article is well articulated and well researched. There is one more saying, at twenty if you are not a communist you are an idiot; at forty if you are still one you are an idiot.

That is how the reservation is also. I was also anti to reservation when in college and later in my first job. Slowly when you see the world and the ways they work, you get converted. At forty you become a strong supporter of reservation.

One of your friends wanted evidence for reservations. Here it is:1. The population spread in India is 5 to 10% FC and the rest others. A recent survey in 20 PSU banks on the top management positions from AGM up wards. The percentage of FCs in it is 90% and the rest ten percent.

2. IAS and other higher governmental positions is owned by the FCs. They have more than 60% of the posts.

3. Pl check the supreme court of India and the number of judges from the OBC/SC/ST categories. It is not even 10% of the total.

The upper castes are still occupying the top jobs. This is true of both private and public enterprises too. If this kind of discrimination happens in UK or US many of the companies top executives will be walking only to the courts.

You have obviously not seen the US then. Come to the wall street and you will find that blacks and hispanics are a rarity. Adverse action and adverse impact are two different things here. In case of adverse impact, companies are liable to the extent of only ensuring that equal opportunities areprovided and the screening criteria is actually related to job requirements.

Interesting article and Interesting comments! Different views and different thoughts. I appreciate.

I fail to understand few things. Please excuse me as I am not that educated as you guys are. Please help me find answers to the following:

1. Are we in 2007 or still 1950s2. Is there any improvement in the society?3. How far reservations helped4. Are they to protect the rights or to uplift the society If to protect the rights----i) is there any law to prevent them to do so or is there any law to punish people who are biased to wards a section ii) The teachers/Professors bias is based on the race and caste alone? Can we call it as favourtism? Is there any gaurantee that thse from under privilleged who made it to the teaching and higher posts doesnot follow suit by favouring people from their section

If it is for the upliftment of the society....did we achieve the success..at what rate?5. From the under privileged who benifited from the reservations and where do they live6. Is there any provision to protect the rights of a economically backward person in forward castes7. Why there should be any discount in qualifing marks and age relaxation for those who fall under a specific reserved category? Government run special coaching classes at a free of cost?

8. Given the present day scenario shouldn't we re-look at the policy and evaluate it and amend it as per current day needs.

9. Since 60 years of Independence still have reservations--is it not the shame? That means there is till disparity?10. Why a few people in India fight to declare we are morebackward...or most backward

11. What did the political parties (OBCs/BCs/BSP)did for the people of the underprivileged country since Independence?12. Is it not time to re-look at the political system and do something13. Again Why reservations?14. Now who actually needs the reservations?

3. How far reservations helpedA lot! Now there are SC/ST/OBC engineers too!

4. Are they to protect the rights or to uplift the societyTo uplift the society

ii) The teachers/Professors bias is based on the race and caste alone? The bias is against caste. And it is not just employed by teachers/professor but by society in general.

Can we call it as favourtism?No.

Is there any gaurantee that thse from under privilleged who made it to the teaching and higher posts doesnot follow suit by favouring people from their sectionNo. There is no guarantee.

If it is for the upliftment of the society....did we achieve the success..at what rate?We achieved success. We have IAS officers, engineers, doctors coming from SC/ST/OBC, but it has still not reached anywhere close to where we can say that each group is now more or less equally represented (according to their population).

5. From the under privileged who benifited from the reservations and where do they liveBoth rural and urban, but more from urban.

6. Is there any provision to protect the rights of a economically backward person in forward castesIt is nothing to do with rights. See answer to #4 above.

7. Why there should be any discount in qualifing marks and age relaxation for those who fall under a specific reserved category?To encourage more of them to come into mainstream.

Government run special coaching classes at a free of cost?They already run colleges at free cost. Tuitions is not officially recognized as a tool for education.

8. Given the present day scenario shouldn't we re-look at the policy and evaluate it and amend it as per current day needs.Yes, there's a need. Private sectors should start promoting lower castes as well, because private industry has now become a source for employment in this country. Also, sections such as Muslims who are underrepresented need to be given more access to opportunities. The same applies to Women in India.

9. Since 60 years of Independence still have reservations--is it not the shame?Even after 60 years of independence we have Democracy in this country, and we have taxation in this country. Is it a shame?

That means there is till disparity?Yes.

10. Why a few people in India fight to declare we are morebackward...or most backward:) Why do some people want to show their income less?

11. What did the political parties (OBCs/BCs/BSP)did for the people of the underprivileged country since Independence?The same thing that other parties such as Congress, BJP, did! :)

12. Is it not time to re-look at the political system and do somethingI am not discussing that topic here.

Venkat:Sorry that you are disappointed. But can't help it. I didn't think you were seriously expecting that I would answer your questions in detail. I do not think I take this is as my job to answers so many questions.

I have written 17 articles on this topic. You may find some many answers there.

Ummm.. I am from New Delhi. I am preparing for IIT JEE. I study for 18 hours a day & the rest 6 include sleeping, eating, bathing ....

Now, when I go to IIT & I score let's say 40%. And a SC gets 10% marks, who deserves admission ? I do, but I won't get it because I am from the General Category, right ?

This is what you call reverse discrimination, you know why ? IIT is not about distributing free food that anyone can eat. To cope up with an institute's (such as IIT/AIIMS) academics, you need to have your concepts & academics at the school level strong, so there is no point giving reservations in institutes of higher learning

I love the way del.blogger has put it .. and support that strongly. I have been through the rigours of an IIT, and post graduation still hold the view of anti reservation policies. There are no racist activities as someone right above has mentioned, infact one of our profs was so one-eyed, that we all faced reverse-discrimination (he happened to be a chap from the backward caste as he called, and was out there trying to rectify and uplift the down trodded).

Thats stupid, there are numbers out there who are more deserving to end up in a good institute. The possible solution to give everyone a chance is by increasing the seats. Reservation at the primary level of education makes sense, coz then everyone must get an access to that.

But hell, graduation is what you do for your future. You cant have reservation to the extent of flopping or playing with others careers. The best seats ought to go to the deserving ones. Consider this, one of my SC frends ended up with a rank of 55000 in one of those regional engg exams. Another, a forward caste chap ended with a rank of 7000. And imagine, the former got a seat in a premier institute and the latter not so. Now has happened in the past 4 years is visible. The former was in a luxurious situation yet never made the most of it. The latter unfortunately didnt have the scope to make something out his education. End result - both crapped !!!

This is not to say that the SC frend of mine is dumb. Coz I am a firm believer of anti-racism, but its just that not all are suited to all fields. And by giving undeserving ones a chance, what we get is devalued output ...

THE RECENT HYPE BY MEDIA, ORGANIZATIONS LIKE YFE IS MISGUIDING THE YOUTH AND IS MADE TO BELIEVE THAT CASTE BASED RESERVATION IS GREATEST THREAT TO THEM.

They aren't made aware of actual reality about various quotas.Instead of the thing that the BASIC PRICIPLE OF RESERVATION is objectionable. Youth seems to have believed that only CASTE BASED RESERVATION is objectionable. They aren't made aware of various aspects of reservation and even different forms of reservation. Even if they are aware, they are blinded by some people and media to make them realize that they are upper castes who aren't benefited by this kind of reservations instead reservation is against them.They are presented mis-facts about reservation especially SC/ST reservation, packaged in the form of stories like grass hopper and ants.Actually this way, castiest minds of the society are convincing the youth to follow their own caste lines and integrate them. While most youth anti reservationists raise their voices out of pure jealousy based on caste lines. While the modern youth still boasts about his higher caste pride, they can't take reservation for lower castes. May be because always their caste has been a matter a pride for them and now they are loosing something because of the same. Most anti-reservationists use Internet as medium to raise their voices. Actually you would find Anti-reservation protest most prominent in the virtual world than the real world. This is because most anti-reservationists are people who are enjoying such facilities, belonging to higher section of the society which consists of less than 1% of the population. You would find hundreds of communities on orkut about anti-reservation with thousands of members but you just find some 10 or 20 pro-reservation communities with very few members.www.reservationfacts.blogspot.com

An example of a bus service was discussed above.....the point is that they are afterall handicapped and the bus service is the social service being carried by the govt.....not their birthright.....and they too know this and are thankful to others for such kind services and know that they are some how incapable to compete with general mass.

but here the case is not same and is hence incomparable. Give OBC/SC/STs support and finance, we and they all know they have full capabilities to compete with the whole world.

Some i read blamed prof's of IITs deliberately failing students from backward caste. i think those guys really dont know anything abt any IIT or Institute of National Imprtnce (INI)for that matter....because i too belong to NIT (an INI) and know whts the envorionment inside....so please stop that bogus argument of bias. And even if such cases happen, then there are courts for such issues, not reservation is the solution.

Mr. Sujai, yes the no. of Engg, Dr, etc increased a lot from these community.

but it would have been indeed effective if the affirmative action would have been taken at primary level. a batchmate of mine in NIT came thru reservation. he did not even know integral of x. Not only that we tried to teach him many time, but in vain, because he had no basic knowledge....and if such student fails, some people may call it purposeful!

contd...what do u want dude??? score not jst less, but negligible against GE, take seats, not only that write shit in answer sheets but still mst be passed (else it is purpose of professor), companies must hire u, else it is puposefull, and promotions must be there or else ur development will be hampered, and not only that us son would enjoy the same benefits????

one comment was that OBCs scored more than Brahmins in TN??? who is in need then man??? if u true supporter of reservation then support it for brahmins on TN!!! well, i m against all reservations. and btw with 96% reservation in TN, only brahmins left in GE, so obviously there score will go low! whats the big deal! of them who will score at par with other caste will go thru! provided they all get the same environment!

government gives OBC/SC/ST age relaxation in xams, relaxation in attempts, scholarships, there is no cry for that. but let the colleges do what they are for---- PROVIDING THE BEST ENGINEERS FOR INDIA. make there seeds good, the crop will be good. invest in primary education, give them free books, give them support. but the cry is only against reservation man!!!

and Mr. sujai, u mentioned many software firm taking intake from private colleges and still perform better. the companies have two wings.....testing and R&D....such companies take the intake from private colleges in mass and place them in testing, where all they need to do is debug the program written by others....or in BPOs. the same company when goes to IITs give high package if they need people for R&D. its not that private college cant go to R&D but they need to prove themselves, which IITians have already proved themselves to be of value.

the reservation for handicapped and defence personal sons is justified as firstly, it is for sympathy and not their birthright, and secondly it amounts to just simple representative %, about less than 5%.

and sir, citations as giving reservation in cricket teams and defense service is not some trivial joke, (and we are dealing with serious topic), it is as serious. please look in the deeper meaning of sarcasm, which they would have, had they have had their basics in place. it is that if u cant tolerate low quality in defense and cricket, why tolerate in other spheres. all spheres are equally important. we should not tolerate poor roads that would result due to poor engineers, just the same as we would not tolerate low quality in defence. and similarly everything, poor performance in manufacturing, production, everything.....

what we say is just make their basic primary education correct, leave the rest....if you have knowledge, you will pave your way somehow or other......if not no degree or backsupport can help u sustain for long!!!!

contd...what do u want dude??? score not jst less, but negligible against GE, take seats, not only that write shit in answer sheets but still mst be passed (else it is purpose of professor), companies must hire u, else it is puposefull, and promotions must be there or else ur development will be hampered, and not only that us son would enjoy the same benefits????

one comment was that OBCs scored more than Brahmins in TN??? who is in need then man??? if u true supporter of reservation then support it for brahmins on TN!!! well, i m against all reservations. and btw with 96% reservation in TN, only brahmins left in GE, so obviously there score will go low! whats the big deal! of them who will score at par with other caste will go thru! provided they all get the same environment!

government gives OBC/SC/ST age relaxation in xams, relaxation in attempts, scholarships, there is no cry for that. but let the colleges do what they are for---- PROVIDING THE BEST ENGINEERS FOR INDIA. make there seeds good, the crop will be good. invest in primary education, give them free books, give them support. but the cry is only against reservation man!!!

and Mr. sujai, u mentioned many software firm taking intake from private colleges and still perform better. the companies have two wings.....testing and R&D....such companies take the intake from private colleges in mass and place them in testing, where all they need to do is debug the program written by others....or in BPOs. the same company when goes to IITs give high package if they need people for R&D. its not that private college cant go to R&D but they need to prove themselves, which IITians have already proved themselves to be of value.

the reservation for handicapped and defence personal sons is justified as firstly, it is for sympathy and not their birthright, and secondly it amounts to just simple representative %, about less than 5%.

and sir, citations as giving reservation in cricket teams and defense service is not some trivial joke, (and we are dealing with serious topic), it is as serious. please look in the deeper meaning of sarcasm, which they would have, had they have had their basics in place. it is that if u cant tolerate low quality in defense and cricket, why tolerate in other spheres. all spheres are equally important. we should not tolerate poor roads that would result due to poor engineers, just the same as we would not tolerate low quality in defence. and similarly everything, poor performance in manufacturing, production, everything.....

what we say is just make their basic primary education correct, leave the rest....if you have knowledge, you will pave your way somehow or other......if not no degree or backsupport can help u sustain for long!!!!

You are against all kinds of reservation means you are for all kinds of institutionalized discrimination.

There is a film India Untouched (in youtube). It will show Untouchability/Caste discrimination in practice across India to this day. The pretentious pro-reservationists should come out of these narrow mindset. For that the should shed their upper caste mentality and make an attempt to find the ground reality of Indian society.

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