Comments on: Mott Haven ‘Swamp’ Was Deeper Than Thoughthttp://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/17/mott-haven-swamp-was-deeper-than-thought/
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By: ryanhttp://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/17/mott-haven-swamp-was-deeper-than-thought/comment-page-1/#comment-588295
Mon, 21 Dec 2009 12:25:23 +0000http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/17/mott-haven-swamp-was-deeper-than-thought/#comment-588295my great grandma told me that her brother got murdered in there and they never found who killed him so i hated the article it even brought my grear grandma to tears if you want to know how i know is i went to see her and she couldnt open the door so i just opened it
]]>By: Anahttp://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/17/mott-haven-swamp-was-deeper-than-thought/comment-page-1/#comment-588149
Sun, 20 Dec 2009 20:42:39 +0000http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/17/mott-haven-swamp-was-deeper-than-thought/#comment-588149Forgotten NY wrote about this couple years back: ‘An abandoned NY Central railroad spur runs in a tunnel underneath the park (St. Mary’s Park), running from the main line to the former Port Morris freight station.’ The NY Central eventually merged with Penn Central, went bankrupt, became Conrail and also went bust, finally was taken over by CSX. Looks like the city was actually right on this one.
]]>By: Georgehttp://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/17/mott-haven-swamp-was-deeper-than-thought/comment-page-1/#comment-587067
Fri, 18 Dec 2009 13:38:16 +0000http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/17/mott-haven-swamp-was-deeper-than-thought/#comment-587067#26 – you don’t want to know – really, you don’t want to know….

I would hope they pumpted into trucks and carted it off to a treatment facility.

What they really did with it….well, you don’t want to know….

]]>By: Evan Markshttp://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/17/mott-haven-swamp-was-deeper-than-thought/comment-page-1/#comment-586935
Fri, 18 Dec 2009 02:51:57 +0000http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/17/mott-haven-swamp-was-deeper-than-thought/#comment-586935They pumped out 625,000 gallons of, well, let’s call it sewage for lack of a better term. To where?
]]>By: Ryanhttp://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/17/mott-haven-swamp-was-deeper-than-thought/comment-page-1/#comment-586597
Thu, 17 Dec 2009 22:33:23 +0000http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/17/mott-haven-swamp-was-deeper-than-thought/#comment-586597Actually determining who owns what is really, really hard. Did any of your slick searches reveal that northern portions of this former rail line are owned by a private individual? Extra credit if you can identify the high-profile (written about in the Times) housing development involving one segment of this rail line.
]]>By: Warren Howie Hugheshttp://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/17/mott-haven-swamp-was-deeper-than-thought/comment-page-1/#comment-586523
Thu, 17 Dec 2009 21:48:23 +0000http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/17/mott-haven-swamp-was-deeper-than-thought/#comment-586523todd, post #16, Actually, I’m thinking you can take a hike…right now! Just kidding, todd, just kidding!
]]>By: Edwardhttp://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/17/mott-haven-swamp-was-deeper-than-thought/comment-page-1/#comment-586511
Thu, 17 Dec 2009 21:34:49 +0000http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/17/mott-haven-swamp-was-deeper-than-thought/#comment-586511If this “swamp” were located in Manhattan, it would have been pumped out 20 years ago and the right-of-way turned into park land.

It’s amazing how geography plays such a huge role in how this city is maintained. Manhattan gets 80 percent of the attention, while the other 4 boros get 20 percent. If our taxes reflected this same equation I wouldn’t mind, but unfortunately that’s how it is. And no boro is ignored like the Bronx is, except when a new homeless shelter needs a home.

How about turning that old rail line into a NEW rail line (light rail, old trolleys?) so people can get around that much easier. No rocket science needed here.

]]>By: Warren Howie Hugheshttp://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/17/mott-haven-swamp-was-deeper-than-thought/comment-page-1/#comment-586499
Thu, 17 Dec 2009 21:28:45 +0000http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/17/mott-haven-swamp-was-deeper-than-thought/#comment-586499Hard to imagine that no human remains failed to turn-up in this truly “Eerie Canal?”
]]>By: Gregory A. Butlerhttp://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/17/mott-haven-swamp-was-deeper-than-thought/comment-page-1/#comment-586497
Thu, 17 Dec 2009 21:27:55 +0000http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/17/mott-haven-swamp-was-deeper-than-thought/#comment-586497The city should seize this land, deed it over to the NYC Housing Authority and build public housing on it. There are lots of folks in the Bronx on the NYCHA housing waiting list who could sure use the apartments!
]]>By: Georgehttp://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/17/mott-haven-swamp-was-deeper-than-thought/comment-page-1/#comment-586419
Thu, 17 Dec 2009 20:27:25 +0000http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/17/mott-haven-swamp-was-deeper-than-thought/#comment-586419Oftentimes – railroads do not actually “own” (i.e. have freehold title) to the land upon which the rails run. Rather, they have rights-of-way (ROWs) – which are easements conceded by the adjoining property owners; usually in perpetuity so long as the ROW is maintained as such.

If the correct successor railroad can be identified (less easy than the pundits here may think) it may be held liable for the clean-up if it did not take the necessary steps to “legally” abandon the ROW.

If these steps were taken, then ROW abandonment would mean that the easements would be extinguished and the land usage would revert to the actual landowners who ceded the easement.

Contrary to the “simplicity approach” that blog posters are wont to argue – this is a complicated legal area. Anyone who has any familiarity with the Rails-to-Trails movement can tell you how complicated it is.

If the railroad has legally “abandoned” this ROW such that a reversion has occurred – then it would be very difficult to transform it into a park or use it for transit purposes etc.

If, however, the ROW was not legally “abandoned” and a successor entity can be found – then that successor could transfer the ROW to the City.

But, like everything else in real life – even then complications exist. If the City were to then use it as a park – that would be out of conformance with the original purpose of the easement (i.e. as a ROW for a railroad) and could negate it.

There are legal mechanisms now developed that can avoid this reversion – but they initiate with identifying which railroad currently “holds” the ROW easement.

Too bad real life isn’t as simple and the virtual one that a lot ot blog poster “experts” think it is.

They filed a notice of
exemption pursuant to the Board’s regulations at 49 CFR 1152.50. This notice of exemption filed by
NYC and CSXT is for abandonment and discontinuance of service, respectively, of a line of railroad
between Melrose and the southernmost edge of the tunnel at Southern Boulevard in Bronx County,
New York, a distance of approximately 1.5 miles. NYC seeks authority to abandon the line.
CSXT seeks authority to discontinue service on the line. Two maps depicting the rail line in relationship
to the area served are appended to the report. If the exemption becomes effective, the railroad will be
able to salvage track, ties and other railroad appurtenances, and to dispose of the right-of-way.

]]>By: mikenychttp://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/17/mott-haven-swamp-was-deeper-than-thought/comment-page-1/#comment-586291
Thu, 17 Dec 2009 18:17:09 +0000http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/17/mott-haven-swamp-was-deeper-than-thought/#comment-586291leave it open to trespassers, the city cannot convict anybody for trespassing if nobody owns it.
also the highline was converted from an urban adventure spot to a high falutin park managed by a guy getting 250K a year to run a quasi charity but its ruled and staffed by volunteers and the NY Parks Department,
is that a scam or what!!

lets go over it, a toxic dump, no longer used by the railroads, a swamp, filled with debris and garbage,
in a poor neighborhood, creates a health hazard
but conveniently nobody own it, where else in the history of nyc has anybody not owned or claimed to own property when faced with astromonical cleanup costs, and the city just lets it sit stagnant for years because frankly they do not care and dont want to rock the boat of the business interests that ‘own’ it and look the other way at the expense of the health of south bronx residents, because…they dont care.
theres always a sinister reason, dont believe that they really care, theres money involved in cleanup and now with teh gentrified ‘so-bro’ as the real estate brokers call it, and a fresh fake ‘green’ media theres someone making real green under the table…

find out who it is…

]]>By: toddhttp://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/17/mott-haven-swamp-was-deeper-than-thought/comment-page-1/#comment-586289
Thu, 17 Dec 2009 18:03:36 +0000http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/17/mott-haven-swamp-was-deeper-than-thought/#comment-586289Are there still steel rails running along the property? Good job to the city for cleaning it up. Would like to visit and hike there someday.
]]>By: Bill Bohttp://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/17/mott-haven-swamp-was-deeper-than-thought/comment-page-1/#comment-586281
Thu, 17 Dec 2009 17:57:52 +0000http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/17/mott-haven-swamp-was-deeper-than-thought/#comment-586281If you look at the google maps you can see that the “swamp” train tracks run under St. Mary’s playground through a tunnel and weaves it’s way all the way up (both underground and in sunken thruways) to the Melrose station on Metro North. So, it starts at the south on Amtrak tracks and weaves its way to Metro North. Sadly I don’t think using these tracks for a bike trail/walking path would work because of all the tunnels.
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