yuastnav wrote on Oct 2, 2012, 13:55:Generally speaking having traditions is a bad idea because it implants a certain way of thinking and hampers the progression of society.

I disagree strongly. Anyone can create their own family tradition and it shows respect for previous generations. Traditions generally mean something to someone or a group of people. There is a time to let go of old traditions that mean nothing after time.

Thanks giving, Christmas, mothers day, bucks night are all traditions. Are these bad? No way.

Are you just saying traditions are bad because of religious traditions?

yuastnav wrote on Oct 2, 2012, 13:55:As that I am very opposed to the idea of marriage but it doesn't look like it's going away.

Why? What's wrong with marriage? What happened for you not to believe in the idea?

Beamer wrote on Oct 2, 2012, 13:03:There's no reason to be respectful to an anti-gay-marriage argument.

Perhaps if you'd read my posts you would understand that I'm not against gay marriage. I'm not for it either. I'm undecided. Would you like to change my mind? Here's your opportunity.

If you're disrespectful, however, how could you ever expect me to vote in favor of a demographic that doesn't respect me?

Undecided isn't much different. If you're undecided that means you either haven't given it much thought (which is ok) or you think that both sides have some credible opinions (which isn't ok. This isn't something like abortion, in which both sides make statements that have validity, even if only in a vacuum. This is something where one side's opinion solely comes down to not liking the other.)

yuastnav wrote on Oct 2, 2012, 12:38:The question is not why gay people should be able to marry.The question is why the hell it is forbidden for them to marry in the first place. That sounds like an arbitrary law, why not get rid of it?

Marriage in this country has religious influenced origins and has always been defined as a relationship between a man and a woman. I'd say that clear definition makes it more than just arbitrary. That's obviously changing and the issue at hand makes the question of why gay people should be able to marry the most important question. The answer to that question will ultimately determine whether or not it becomes legal.

If it's important to you, why not take the time to positively influence someone who's indifferent?

But if it has religious influence then it is arbitrary. For there are many different flavours of religion and they probably define it all in a different way. Apart from that there are also most likely cultures that either didn't have strong, religious influences and therefore didn't have religiously influences marriages or where marriage was separate from religion altogether.So again: giving it religious influence and therefore making it just a bond between males and females makes it really arbitrary because instead of basing it on equality and freedom and other democratic values it bases it on a particular, outdated and archaic interest.

Generally speaking having traditions is a bad idea because it implants a certain way of thinking and hampers the progression of society.As that I am very opposed to the idea of marriage but it doesn't look like it's going away. As far as I am aware married couple still get benefits when it comes to taxes (of course that may differ from country to country) and there is no reason why gay couples should be denied that freedom.

D-Rock wrote on Oct 2, 2012, 13:14:Perhaps I misunderstood and something got lost in my translation, but doesn't bold text and CAPS indicate an intensity beyond a normal tone?

I was just trying to get you to focus on that question rather than talk about the rest of what I said, which funny enough you didn't touch. So it was to "focus" or highlight rather than add "emotion" as such.

D-Rock wrote on Oct 2, 2012, 13:14:

Disagree. It's a personal choice. It is very personal. It's up to each and every couple. What couples do with each other has nothing to do with anyone and there's no reason to comment on what other couples do.

When did I say anything about personal choice? I was just referring to how society views marriage and how that view has changed. Of course it's a personal choice. What exactly are you disagreeing with?

Well you said:

Marriage is a concept that is becoming less of a necessity in our society. No, it's not dead, but relationships outside of marriage are perfectly acceptible in our society. That's why I want to know more about what people see as a benefit to same sex marriage.

Which on first read sounds like you meant it's not important which I disagree with. The majority still get married, probably for vastly different reasons than say 30-40 years ago but they still get married. Although I think that may dramatically change with the next generation.

The personal choice stuff, I was just talking about marriage being a very personal thing and people do it for all kinds of reasons. Some do it for status, some do it for benefits and some do it for what seems as the ultimate statement of love, "the commitment". Why deny at least 10% of the population the opportunity to be able to?

netnerd85 wrote on Oct 2, 2012, 12:58:Pissy? What do you mean? How was what I said at all pissy? I don't own a handbag, I don't get pissy mate.

Perhaps I misunderstood and something got lost in my translation, but doesn't bold text and CAPS indicate an intensity beyond a normal tone?

I'm just trying to get you to think of the other side for a second.

I am thinking about the 'other side' -- which is why I'm asking the questions. For the record -- I haven't taken sides. I'd just like to see someone list the pros and cons. Based on responses so far, there don't seem to be any cons.

Don't you agree it would be good for the economy?

Absolutely.

Disagree. It's a personal choice. It is very personal. It's up to each and every couple. What couples do with each other has nothing to do with anyone and there's no reason to comment on what other couples do.

When did I say anything about personal choice? I was just referring to how society views marriage and how that view has changed. Of course it's a personal choice. What exactly are you disagreeing with?

Beamer wrote on Oct 2, 2012, 11:58:Can someone please educate me on the detriments of same sex marriage?

I think any of us that have had a friend unable to visit his loved one in the hospital because certain policies apply only to immediate family can understand the benefits of marriage.You know, other than telling people they're full parts of our society.

I do appreciate the input -- that's a good point you brought up and I never really thought of it until now.

Did anyone in this thread ever say anything against same sex marriage?

Do you accept the challenge of reading, at least trying to understand, and replying with a respectful response?

There's no reason to be respectful to an anti-gay-marriage argument. None of them are based in reason, instead they're based in hypocritical emotion that's extremely easy to poke holes in. You can only have people tell you it's evil, or it somehow damages the sanctity of marriage in ways divorce doesn't, or that it's a religious thing even though marriages are legal entities performed by justices of the peace and churches are free to not perform any marriage they don't want to do, etc.

It's not like this is a new debate. I've exhausted my patience on it years ago.

deqer wrote on Sep 30, 2012, 21:57:It's just a fetish that has miraculously gotten this far... It's quite sad.

Yup.

Heh, you just agreed with a troll account.No surprise, since half your posts seem like Hellbinder posts, only not parody...

Beamer only recognizes people with his view as "people". Unlike deqer here, with whom even I have chewed him out and had my posts deleted, yet if he says something I agree with, I can happily support it.

yuastnav wrote on Oct 2, 2012, 12:38:The question is not why gay people should be able to marry.The question is why the hell it is forbidden for them to marry in the first place. That sounds like an arbitrary law, why not get rid of it?

Marriage in this country has religious influenced origins and has always been defined as a relationship between a man and a woman. I'd say that clear definition makes it more than just arbitrary. That's obviously changing and the issue at hand makes the question of why gay people should be able to marry the most important question. The answer to that question will ultimately determine whether or not it becomes legal.

If it's important to you, why not take the time to positively influence someone who's indifferent?

D-Rock wrote on Oct 2, 2012, 12:33:Wait a minute -- I thought you were 'done'? Or is that just with RailWizard?

With RailWizard, no point engaging someone so closed.

D-Rock wrote on Oct 2, 2012, 12:33:

Can you please explain the benefits of NOT allowing same sex marriage?

No need to get all pissy about it -- I asked someone to fill me in on details I might not be aware of. If I'm the one being educated here, why should I be expected to be the one to explain something?

Pissy? What do you mean? How was what I said at all pissy? I don't own a handbag, I don't get pissy mate.All I did was ask you a question. Have you never asked a teacher, guru or master a question only to have them reply with another question? NOT saying I am a teacher, master or guru - I'm not. I'm just trying to get you to think of the other side for a second. There is NO reason why gay people should not be allowed to marry, no logical reason at all. None.

Don't you agree it would be good for the economy? Extra dollars in the til of local businesses. You can't outsource this stuff.

D-Rock wrote on Oct 2, 2012, 12:33:Marriage is a concept that is becoming less of a necessity in our society. No, it's not dead, but relationships outside of marriage are perfectly acceptible in our society. That's why I want to know more about what people see as a benefit to same sex marriage. Either way, I don't care, it's just out of curiousity.

Disagree. It's a personal choice. It is very personal. It's up to each and every couple. What couples do with each other has nothing to do with anyone and there's no reason to comment on what other couples do.

Beamer wrote on Oct 2, 2012, 11:58:Can someone please educate me on the detriments of same sex marriage?

I think any of us that have had a friend unable to visit his loved one in the hospital because certain policies apply only to immediate family can understand the benefits of marriage.You know, other than telling people they're full parts of our society.

I do appreciate the input -- that's a good point you brought up and I never really thought of it until now.

Did anyone in this thread ever say anything against same sex marriage?

D-Rock wrote on Oct 2, 2012, 12:33:[...]Marriage is a concept that is becoming less of a necessity in our society. No, it's not dead, but relationships outside of marriage are perfectly acceptible in our society. That's why I want to know more about what people see as a benefit to same sex marriage. Either way, I don't care, it's just out of curiousity.

The question is not why gay people should be able to marry.The question is why the hell it is forbidden for them to marry in the first place. That sounds like an arbitrary law, why not get rid of it?

RollinThundr wrote on Oct 2, 2012, 12:05:Actually that was more aimed at beamer, let's be honest, the gay community and those that actively support them, take pot shots at religion all the time. And that's alright because attacking religion is the "in" thing to do, unless it's something about Islam, It's ok to attack the Catholic church however. When the shoe is on the other foot however, you're met with more butthurt than a prep H convention.

Christian groups get their own gaming conventions but gay people don't? Haha give me a break man, religious groups are some of the hostile and vehement attackers of other interest groups. Let's not forget their hand in the fracturing of the Republican party, we're a joke these days. Obama is probably the most Conservative democrat to ever sit in office. This should be a no brainer election if anyone had the brains to court the moderates instead of constantly attacking from the fringe and polarizing the debate.

Being a Republican used to mean something. Fiscal responsibility meant more than just cutting every single government program to the bone while massively inflating the defense budget year over year. Hands off government, not no government anywhere. Responsible taxation, not ridiculous tax code loopholes and any form of taxes being evil or leftist. The moral guidance of the church in our communities, not invading our politics.

Nowadays being a Republican is about more than attacking special interest groups, demonizing the sitting president and repeating lines from Fox News. It's a fucking tragedy what this party has become and it's largely because of the religious fundies.

netnerd85 wrote on Oct 2, 2012, 11:55:Do you say this to Women all around the world?

Wait a minute -- I thought you were 'done'? Or is that just with RailWizard?

I would say it to feminists. The other women I know of either do something about it when their rights are infringed upon or live in oppressive nations where only the occasional brave one stands up. Let's keep the 'world' out of this thread though -- when you get into other nations you open up a whole other topic.

Can you please explain the benefits of NOT allowing same sex marriage?

No need to get all pissy about it -- I asked someone to fill me in on details I might not be aware of. If I'm the one being educated here, why should I be expected to be the one to explain something?

Marriage is a concept that is becoming less of a necessity in our society. No, it's not dead, but relationships outside of marriage are perfectly acceptible in our society. That's why I want to know more about what people see as a benefit to same sex marriage. Either way, I don't care, it's just out of curiousity.

Don't embrace whatever con, petition, law etc homosexuals are currently against? Well you're just a bigot hater, your opinion doesn't count. News flash sunshine, life is tough, if a few gay people who happen to be gamers, need their own convention to feel safe from the harsh use of the phrase that's gay or whatever, they either need thicker skin, or start wearing a helmet at all times.

I'm an actual Conservative, not a left wing liberal so thats moot and just an effort to dismiss people who disagree with you. Why is a gun convention ok but a gay convention is not? Why is it ok for for interest groups who represent religion to have public events but gay people cannot? Everyone advocating church is just a whiner who can't shut up and stop spouting their liberal agenda? I find it interesting how your idea of free speech only extends to groups you like.

The racism stuff is just so silly and out there, not even going to touch that.

Actually that was more aimed at beamer, let's be honest, the gay community and those that actively support them, take pot shots at religion all the time. And that's alright because attacking religion is the "in" thing to do, unless it's something about Islam, It's ok to attack the Catholic church however. When the shoe is on the other foot however, you're met with more butthurt than a prep H convention.

The double standard is flat out quite humorous imo. At the end of the day, gay folks are people just like anyone else, if they want to be gay, who am I to say they're wrong in that, personally I couldn't care less if Beamer for example likes it in the bum, that's his choice. I'm just tired of it being thrown in everyone else face constantly by those on the left, the media, and the GBLT community, we get it, you're gay, get over yourself already and move on. Not really a need for a special gamer's convention just for them but hey whatever floats your boat I suppose.

You mean it takes shots at the organization that calls it evil?Who would have thunk!?

Also, this double standard is, again, due to who has the power. If you're a white Catholic male you can do anything you want in this country. If you are a gay male it is considerably harder.

Will you next discuss how wrong it is that Dave Chappelle could do whiteface but it's considered wrong when Ted Danson does blackface?

Also, wow, now you're whining about how people don't like racist attacks on Islam. Well, for one, they're typically fairly racist. For another, larger one, we're not an Islamic country. We are a christian country. So, when we bash Islam, we're bashing someone else. We're often uncomfortable with that. When we're bashing Christianity we're bashing ourselves.I go back to the Thanksgiving argument - everyone is ok when you say something mocking your father's foibles, but if your sister brought some guy, introduced him to the family for the first time, and he mocked your father, well, that would probably be the end of that guy. He suffered from a double standard because he's not one of you.

Don't embrace whatever con, petition, law etc homosexuals are currently against? Well you're just a bigot hater, your opinion doesn't count. News flash sunshine, life is tough, if a few gay people who happen to be gamers, need their own convention to feel safe from the harsh use of the phrase that's gay or whatever, they either need thicker skin, or start wearing a helmet at all times.

I'm an actual Conservative, not a left wing liberal so thats moot and just an effort to dismiss people who disagree with you. Why is a gun convention ok but a gay convention is not? Why is it ok for for interest groups who represent religion to have public events but gay people cannot? Everyone advocating church is just a whiner who can't shut up and stop spouting their liberal agenda? I find it interesting how your idea of free speech only extends to groups you like.

The racism stuff is just so silly and out there, not even going to touch that.

Actually that was more aimed at beamer, let's be honest, the gay community and those that actively support them, take pot shots at religion all the time. And that's alright because attacking religion is the "in" thing to do, unless it's something about Islam, It's ok to attack the Catholic church however. When the shoe is on the other foot however, you're met with more butthurt than a prep H convention.

The double standard is flat out quite humorous imo. At the end of the day, gay folks are people just like anyone else, if they want to be gay, who am I to say they're wrong in that, personally I couldn't care less if Beamer for example likes it in the bum, that's his choice. I'm just tired of it being thrown in everyone else face constantly by those on the left, the media, and the GBLT community, we get it, you're gay, get over yourself already and move on. Not really a need for a special gamer's convention just for them but hey whatever floats your boat I suppose.

I think any of us that have had a friend unable to visit his loved one in the hospital because certain policies apply only to immediate family can understand the benefits of marriage.You know, other than telling people they're full parts of our society.

D-Rock wrote on Oct 2, 2012, 11:38:I just hope that people don't think that something like this will influence a political or social agenda for the better, or they will be disappointed. If you keep advertising that you are different and deserve recognition, you too have drawn the very line that you are trying to erase.

Do you say this to Women all around the world?

D-Rock wrote on Oct 2, 2012, 11:38:Someone, please educate me on the benefits to same sex marriage.

Can you please explain the benefits of NOT allowing same sex marriage? The benefits are to the economy. Weddings cost a lot of money and so does divorce. People are taught from a young age to "get married, buy a home" and all that crap. People want to get married to express to the world that they are... married. Have you see how some women look down on other unmarried women? Status is attached to it and that creates a desperate need. It all depends on the specific people and relationship. What does marriage mean to you? I can't answer for everyone and won't try.