I don't see why they can't have Hank Pym in Avengers 2 create Ultron and then have Ant Man be a spin off film.

1) Does that mean Joss Whedon gets to cast Edgar Wright's movie?
2) Is there room for Hank Pym in Avengers 2, what with all the other madness going on?
3) Does Hank Pym being the creator of Ultron make it objectively a better film/story?
4) If not... why is having a Hank Pym cameo to create the big villain an issue?

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Originally Posted by The Question

You know, Pym not being involved with Ultron is a shame, because it really is his best story, but sometimes in the process of adapting a story into another medium things don't work out and you have to shift things around. It's the nature of the game.

Tough truth.

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Originally Posted by Alex_Spider

Spot on. I don't get it why deviate so much from the mythos and neglect such a pivotal Avenger like Pym? They could easily introduce him as a new character and do so many interesting things with him, show the flawed side of his self, his bad temper with his wife and so many other things.

Where would you easily insert a new character and do a bunch of interesting things with them into the Avengers movie? And if it's not easy in the first one... how would it be even easier in the second which has Thanos and Ultron and Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver and Hawkeye with a bigger part and everyone from the first film except (maybe) Loki.

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Originally Posted by The Infernal

I'm not too optimistic about AoU. Hank Pym isn't defined by Ultron, but Ultron is arguably defined by Hank Pyn (to an extent). The relationship between the two characters has been accepted as essential parts of either character's history for decades.

I disagree. Most Ultron stories I read, knowing his relationship with Pym is unnecessary.

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Originally Posted by cherokeesam

Hank Pym has been in every iteration of the Avengers from the very beginning, including Ultimates, including Mighty, including Initiative, including West Coast. He is an integral part of the team, and omnipresent in Avengers comics.

How is that an unreasonable comparison, in your opinion? Keeping in mind that my statement isn't about powersets, or popularity, or rank. Just about importance to the actual team and actual comic title.

It sounds like he hasn't been important in every team and comic title. He's just... been there. He certainly wasn't important in Ultimates. Batman is actually important in every incarnation of the JLA, so the comparison is unreasonable. If you think Pym is as important to the Avengers as Batman is to the JLA, then perhaps you could explain what makes a character important to you, since it's not their usefulness to the team or to the writers.

On Stark making Ultron

Stark!Ultron would naturally have the same personality as 616 Ultron. It'd be the same exact character, only everywhere 616 Ultron says "Pym" MCU Ultron would say "Stark." Not only that, it would make more sense for someone whom we've seen with documented daddy issues and a penchant for taking over things to have someone patterned after him have those same issues. As opposed to, someone who just wants to do good and help people making a robot that feels exterminating humanity is a good call.

Not only does it make more sense narratively, given the constraints: Ant-Man isn't out, and puts Pym out of reach logistics-wise for Avengers 2, and Avengers 2 is already jam packed full of people and action and story and arcs and such... using economy of storytelling is wise. Why include a new character to do what Tony Stark has already done. Tony Stark already has a robot that moves on its own and sometimes does things he doesn't want it to do. Why set up a new character and include a new arc in the film when you already have that story covered?

I understand the complaint that with Pym not being a founder AND Pym not creating Ultron he loses his best stories. I empathize with that. I do. That said... after he wasn't a founder... the writing was on the wall. Like the X-Men and Fantastic Four and Spider-Man relationships with Avengers, this is one bit of 616 that just isn't there.

If Whedon goes the route many here are speculating, with Jarvis morphing into Ultron, he could satisfy a lot of fans and not overcomplicate the story by having Paul Bettany play Hank Pym as a former collaborator of Tony Stark and a co-creator (and voice!) of the Jarvis AI.

If Whedon goes the route many here are speculating, with Jarvis morphing into Ultron, he could satisfy a lot of fans and not overcomplicate the story by having Paul Bettany play Hank Pym as a former collaborator of Tony Stark and a co-creator (and voice!) of the Jarvis AI.

Holy hell I like that. Lol. And if you've been around for all my complaining you'd realize how crazy that is for me to say.

British Hank Pym? Why not? Beats no Hank Pym whatsoever.

Good idea sir!

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Originally Posted by Joss Whedon

Yeah [Coulson]ís dead. The entire television series is just a fever dream. Itís a Jacobís Ladder moment heís having at the point of death...

Sheez, people just set themselves up for disappointment. Whedon said there would be no Hank Pym, he said the origin would be based on the Avengers we know. Now maybe he's making up ****, but I don't see why he'd have a reason to.

We don't even know in the Wright film if Hank Pym, will be the Hank Pym we know.

__________________"If you step out that door, you're an Avenger" - Hawkeye

Where do you see Joss saying that? If Ultron wasn't JARVIS, then i allways thought jarvis could sacrŪfice himelf facing Ultron, he's allways been with the character since the first film, his "death" could actually be very sad.

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Originally Posted by childeroland

Plenty of male-led action films fail, yet the actors' gender is not blamed. Why should it be different for women? Especially since far more male-led action films are made than female-led action films?

I could imagine it (it'd mostly be voices announcing hacking events), but after IM3 we've already seen JARVIS shut down and Tony be sad. I don't think it'd have any punch if it's the same thing, "but this time it's permanent!"

Sheez, people just set themselves up for disappointment. Whedon said there would be no Hank Pym, he said the origin would be based on the Avengers we know. Now maybe he's making up ****, but I don't see why he'd have a reason to.

We don't even know in the Wright film if Hank Pym, will be the Hank Pym we know.

I think fans would be ok with Stark being the primary cause of Ultron's existence, so long as their is a Pym acknowledgement in the storyline. This could be Bettany taking on the role, a scene that shows Stark and Pym collaborating on the Ultron AI, or Stark mentioning that he created Jarvis nee Ultron with an old colleague/mentor of his. With the Ant Man movie taking the coveted post-Avengers spot, a brief appearance by Pym in the much anticipated sequel certainly wouldn't hurt the Ant Man movie box-office take.

I'd liken it to the appearance of The Synthetic Man in CA:TFA - you're not getting the Invaders, but here's a treat for the true-believers.

1) Does that mean Joss Whedon gets to cast Edgar Wright's movie?
2) Is there room for Hank Pym in Avengers 2, what with all the other madness going on?
3) Does Hank Pym being the creator of Ultron make it objectively a better film/story?
4) If not... why is having a Hank Pym cameo to create the big villain an issue?

1) Edgar Wright and Whedon could both cast or agree on who will be Ant Man. They probably already discuss these things.

2) All the madness in Avengers to will be connected to Ultron so why not give Ultron a proper origin story.

3) This a good question. I think Hank Pym's story arc is stronger without being merged with Tony Stark but this is mostly a matter of execution.

4) I could see if Hank Pym wasn't going to be involved in phase 3 but there's an Ant Man movie right around the corner. So why not make Hank Pym central to Ultron, it will only help the Ant Man franchise and satisfy the fans.

3) This a good question. I think Hank Pym's story arc is stronger without being merged with Tony Stark but this is mostly a matter of execution.

4) I could see if Hank Pym wasn't going to be involved in phase 3 but there's an Ant Man movie right around the corner. So why not make Hank Pym central to Ultron, it will only help the Ant Man franchise and satisfy the fans.

Because as far as we know, Hank Pym won't be the main character of Wright's Ant-Man, Scott Lang will be.

I've not heard anyone say the next Avengers movie is going to flop because of some changes.

Some people are a little disappointed with the changes and voicing those opinions which is fine. A couple posters may possibly be a little overrating but its not like they are calling for a boycott of the movie of Whedon's head on a spike lol.

Why do I need to be grateful for something that I'm paying money to see? Something that everyone involved is getting paid hundreds of thousands and in some cases tens of millions to do?

Thats like saying I should be grateful to McDonalds for churning out crap food that I eat. Or I can show my gratitude to a quality food supplier by giving them my money instead.

I thank Marvel by paying them, reading their comics and with my religious devotion to their merchandise. If they want to thank me in return by making up pretend knock-offs of their own stories that's their prerogative.

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Originally Posted by Joss Whedon

Yeah [Coulson]ís dead. The entire television series is just a fever dream. Itís a Jacobís Ladder moment heís having at the point of death...

Yeah God forbid the fanboys have standards to aspire towards. It would be better if we were stuck with great movies like Batman and Robin, Steel, Catwoman, LXG and The Spirit.

It's not standards. It's a checklist you all make in your heads on what comic book films can and can't do. When all you do is dictate what a film should be all throughout its production you set yourself up for disappointment. You people have no idea how it will play out. The movie was literally just titled a day ago and people are already saying they are ruining the characters.
By all means, discuss. Be a little wary even, but fandom as a whole has degraded into people sitting behind their computers scrutinized every move these people do and crying :"NOOOOOOOOO!!!!! YOU ALL SUCK!!!! DO THIS NOT THAT!!!!"

Why do I need to be grateful for something that I'm paying money to see? Something that everyone involved is getting paid hundreds of thousands and in some cases tens of millions to do?

You should be grateful Marvel has the balls to be so ambitious with these films in the first place. You should be grateful comic book films are popular and reaching people of all ages. You should be grateful that these characters are getting their due on screen, a whole new visual medium. But no. Instead of being grateful all you people do is ***** and moan about every little detail that comes along.

I'm not saying you have to love every CBM that comes out of the gate. But be grateful they are getting made by people who CARE about them and want to tell good stories and that many of them ARE good and do the characters justice.

You should be grateful Marvel has the balls to be so ambitious with these films in the first place. You should be grateful comic book films are popular and reaching people of all ages. You should be grateful that these characters are getting their due on screen, a whole new visual medium. But no. Instead of being grateful all you people do is ***** and moan about every little detail that comes along.

I'm not saying you have to love every CBM that comes out of the gate. But be grateful they are getting made by people who CARE about them and want to tell good stories and that many of them ARE good and do the characters justice.

and whats the only thing worse than *****ing and moaning about superhero movies on a superhero movie forum? *****ing and moaning about people *****ing and moaning about superhero movies.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Joss Whedon

Yeah [Coulson]ís dead. The entire television series is just a fever dream. Itís a Jacobís Ladder moment heís having at the point of death...