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Official Discussion Thread for One Tamriel Dungeons

Did you complete any dungeons in either Normal or Veteran mode?
My guess is it was Normal but I still got an undaunted key so it was cool.

If so, how many times did you die?
I died once or twice learning some one shot mechanics

What level were you, and how many Champion Points did you have?
CP300 template

How long did it take you?
About 30 minutes?

What was your overall group makeup?
All By Myself

Did you encounter any issues while running a dungeon or Pledge?
No

Do you have any other general feedback?
Keep these normal ones soloable or if there's any scaling happening for solo players keep it in play. I dislike grouping in this particular MMO. Was it supposed to be soloable? I had fun though and it was by far the most fun PvE experience besides the end of the main storyline.

Insightful for a lol to you, my friend. This is funny and sad at the same time. Yes, let's make group dungeons solo-able. Nothing sounds wrong here

Skye Cloude - Sorc DPS, Master Crafter. Main, the bestestLae Lenne - Templar Healer Trial grade.Dromede - Stamina Nightblade, she's a newb and doesn't know what she's doingV'oghatta - Stamplar pretending to be a tankUlville Thonvella - aspiring Fire Mage, be careful around her fire sticks!Dromedaris - lost and not found. Named after a shoe, what else can you expect from her? A proper tank in her wildest dreamsSwims-Naked - too pretty to grind, too silly to quest.Sun Flair - Dunmer Templar that can't spell for life. To bad she's too broke to afford a name change... Well, at least she's pretty...

Dungeon: Crypt of Hearts 1 on vet mode, activating the scroll to do the final fight on hard mode.

Deaths: 2 - both in the final fight, and both because we were paying more attention to voice chatting and to Twitch chat than to the fight.

Length of Time: About an hour including breaks to refill beverages. Note: we were completely screwing around and not taking this run seriously.

Feedback: This was incredibly easy for "veteran" difficulty. We did all kinds of things that you shouldn't really do in vet dungeons (standing in red instead of getting out of it, the healer barely used any heals, we were often splitting up and having one or two of us go ahead and pull trash mobs without the rest, we were spending more time chatting and goofing off than paying attention to the dungeon, we didn't have our bars set up very well, etc).

Inconsistency of what "Veteran" means. You have something like Vet Vaults of Madness that's barely any harder than Normal VoM and much easier than Vet ICP. I really would like to see all the dungeons have a consistent difficulty across the board. This wasn't possible before because it would lock casual players out of story content, as the sequel dungeons had no Normal mode. The addition of Normal versions of the sequel dungeons is an opportunity to buff up the difficulty of the Veteran versions. And the addition of the Veteran versions of the original-story dungeons is an opportunity offer a consistent level of challenge for that content as well. This update was a chance to finally bring about difficulty consistency, and it failed.

Normal dungeons become irrelevant if a Veteran version exists that's only slightly more difficult and offers much better rewards. Normal mode exists for a reason. What's the point of having difficulty modes if the Veteran mode is barely any different from Normal? There seems to be a lot of stigma surrounding Normal, but there shouldn't be, and a too-narrow gap between Normal and Veteran is what makes people turn their noses up at the prospect of doing Normal.

Hard Mode is a joke. On Blackheart, it added around 800K or so health to him. No new mechanics. Just a bit extra health to burn through. The HM health increase in Vaults of Madness is greater, but it doesn't change that the fight is still a standard stack-n-whack with an occasional moving in or out of bad.

It felt quite easy and I could solo it without any problem even with a template character. I never really felt threatened, my health only dropped low at the boss that causes fear near the beginning and the end boss at one point, only because I was getting careless/bored. I am by no means the "most elite" of players out there but I did play as a sorcerer which is my main class on the live servers so I felt familiar with the class. I did use the new monster helmets (Ilambris) for more AoE damage and the destruction ultimate for even more AoE but I think if I had used Meteor I would have cleared this even faster (esp the morph that gives more ultimate the more targets it hits). I did not even use overload but chose to use the restoration ultimate which did not really see much use at all as I wasn't in any massive danger nor did I feel it was a good use of my ult to use the restoration ultimate.

Perhaps this level is meant for people new to dungeons and/or players below level 50 but if this dungeon was meant to be a pledge on normal difficulty then a 4-people group would probably clear it with no issues at all in about 5-10 minutes or so.

"If a stick of fish is a fish stick, it will stick like other fish sticks stick"
"Taller races now sit in chairs correctly"

Dungeon: Crypt of Hearts 1 on vet mode, activating the scroll to do the final fight on hard mode.

Deaths: 2 - both in the final fight, and both because we were paying more attention to voice chatting and to Twitch chat than to the fight.

Length of Time: About an hour including breaks to refill beverages. Note: we were completely screwing around and not taking this run seriously.

Feedback: This was incredibly easy for "veteran" difficulty. We did all kinds of things that you shouldn't really do in vet dungeons (standing in red instead of getting out of it, the healer barely used any heals, we were often splitting up and having one or two of us go ahead and pull trash mobs without the rest, we were spending more time chatting and goofing off than paying attention to the dungeon, we didn't have our bars set up very well, etc).

Did you by any chance watch the video? Because that's the real proof of how easy the dungeons are... I feel like without watching the video you don't really get a sense of just how much we were screwing around, goofing off, not paying attention to the fights, and really not trying.

At the end of the day I dont see any problem with the veteran dungeon difficulty on the PTS currently. The people who want the really hard stuff now have their own questgiver, and the people who pug this day after day like me are fine with how it is.

Is that the DLC questgiver? In which case, can they re-buff WGT and ICP to pre-DB levels?

Put simply, I dont see why not. If the audience is there, and now that audience is seperate from the rest of the playerbase (I might be part of it, we'll see how it goes) then sodit, why not?

If we're making an entirely different questgiver for the DLC dungeons and those are supposed to be balls out hard, why not give the people what they want? Now that it no longer shows up on the rest of the pledges, there is litteraly no downsides anymore.

Edited by Doctordarkspawn on September 9, 2016 2:02AM

PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

To me, the measure of a man is whether or not he fights for his principles. It does not matter if you never had a chance to begin with. The deck could be stacked, the game rigged against you. You fight to the bitter end, because it is worth fighting for.

Group: Me, (Templar tank) And three DPS (Two DK"s and a magicka sorc. Stamina DK's.) All at cap, or near it.

Dungeon: Direfrost Keep Vet. Was not pledge.

Deaths: One or two. We ran this without a healer and when the DPS got overzealous they got put down, hard, in seconds.

Length: Took us a good half hour, 20 minutes.

So we couldn't do these blindfolded, one of our DPS actually died after geting overeager to engage without me there. Keep in mind, we ran this without a healer. That said, there were deaths, and we didn't burn through these things in the blink of an eye. We actually had to pay attention to mechanics (Primitive as they were, but hey ***) and the group we formed was a pug. So.

All and all, I'm happy with the dungeon difficulty I experienced. I'm not a hardcore player, and for the guy like me who likes to pug these day after day, I could see myself queueing for these. They dont break the difficulty bank, and they didn't need to to keep us on our toes. It was refreshing and I think it hits that sweet spot between the difficulties of the DLC, and the base game back when it was new.

Doing dungeons in PUGs and blazing through veteran dungeons without a healer are two amazingly different things.

No their not. I do that regularly, actually, I run a templar tank and instead of running the traditional team comp I just run three DPS. It's really not that uncommon for a templar tank, we had ZOS sponsored guides on builds able to do that pre craglorn. Pre ICP.

And yes, all the people I get are from zone. People I have either never met or done dungeons with once or twice. Their not two different things, far from it in fact.

Edited by Doctordarkspawn on September 9, 2016 12:52AM

PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

To me, the measure of a man is whether or not he fights for his principles. It does not matter if you never had a chance to begin with. The deck could be stacked, the game rigged against you. You fight to the bitter end, because it is worth fighting for.

Group: Me, (Templar tank) And three DPS (Two DK"s and a magicka sorc. Stamina DK's.) All at cap, or near it.

Dungeon: Direfrost Keep Vet. Was not pledge.

Deaths: One or two. We ran this without a healer and when the DPS got overzealous they got put down, hard, in seconds.

Length: Took us a good half hour, 20 minutes.

So we couldn't do these blindfolded, one of our DPS actually died after geting overeager to engage without me there. Keep in mind, we ran this without a healer. That said, there were deaths, and we didn't burn through these things in the blink of an eye. We actually had to pay attention to mechanics (Primitive as they were, but hey ***) and the group we formed was a pug. So.

All and all, I'm happy with the dungeon difficulty I experienced. I'm not a hardcore player, and for the guy like me who likes to pug these day after day, I could see myself queueing for these. They dont break the difficulty bank, and they didn't need to to keep us on our toes. It was refreshing and I think it hits that sweet spot between the difficulties of the DLC, and the base game back when it was new.

Doing dungeons in PUGs and blazing through veteran dungeons without a healer are two amazingly different things.

No their not. I do that regularly, actually, I run a templar tank and instead of running the traditional team comp I just run three DPS. It's really not that uncommon for a templar tank, we had ZOS sponsored guides on builds able to do that pre craglorn. Pre ICP.

And yes, all the people I get are from zone. People I have either never met or done dungeons with once or twice. Their not two different things, far from it in fact.

I noticed there are new loading screen graphics for when you enter the Veteran mode of a dungeon (the Veteran shield is overlayed on top of the loading screen image). Two associated questions:

Would you consider adding (Normal) and (Veteran) to the loading screen text as well, for clarity?

Is there any chance of seeing new artwork for the original dungeons' "Story II" load screens in the future?

Thanks!

Personally, I'm not a fan of the shield overlay. The loading screen drawings are very beautiful, and the overlay just ruins them and makes them look, well, hideous.

Also, it's not clear to everyone what that shield means.

Wouldn't it be much easier to just add text? It's clear, unambiguous, and gets right to the point all the while leaving those images unmolested. The title text at the bottom, instead of saying "Volenfell" could instead say "Volenfell (Veteran)".

I noticed there are new loading screen graphics for when you enter the Veteran mode of a dungeon (the Veteran shield is overlayed on top of the loading screen image). Two associated questions:

Would you consider adding (Normal) and (Veteran) to the loading screen text as well, for clarity?

Is there any chance of seeing new artwork for the original dungeons' "Story II" load screens in the future?

Thanks!

Personally, I'm not a fan of the shield overlay. The loading screen drawings are very beautiful, and the overlay just ruins them and makes them look, well, hideous.

Also, it's not clear to everyone what that shield means.

Wouldn't it be much easier to just add text? It's clear, unambiguous, and gets right to the point all the while leaving those images unmolested. The title text at the bottom, instead of saying "Volenfell" could instead say "Volenfell (Veteran)".

Agreed. The image doesn't need to be altered at all if it's in the text, and if it's in the text it's much easier to understand.

You're refering to a different set... the set that gives minor slayer is called "infallible mage" and it still drops in trials, the set you are linking is called "wise mage" and is an older set that is replacing the BoE sets that used to drop in trials. It never had the minor slayer bonus

Here are some examples of new mechanics added to the Hard Mode last bosses of veteran dungeons:

Sellistrix the Lamia Queen

This boss is already quite mechanical, the only thing would be to increase the damage of her channeled lightning and the electrified water for each subsequent tick. Also, having he Call Lightning on players like Overchargers in SO do would add a little bit of challenge.

Captain Blackheart

The Bone Scout archers now gain the Taking Aim ability. Once a member is turned into a skeleton, there are magical chests that spawn all over the place, and are only visible to that player. The player needs to find and lockpick the right chest before the curse expires, otherwise he dies. Other players can see an "X" on the map where the true chest lies.

Drodda of Icereach

The boss' drain now depletes a bit of every resource, including ulti. At 75%, 50%, and 25% she will go to the center of the map and start channeling. Each player will get a glow around him in one of 4 colors: red, green, blue and yellow. The eight stones around the boss will glow in those colors, and each player must extinguish the stones of their color by pressing a synergy near the corresponding stone, gaining a large AoE around them that drains resources of the corresponding color to players inside that AoE, including the player that collected it. Once the first stone is extinguished by collecting it's essence, the second will become killable while inside the radius of the first stone. Any stones that remain after the boss is done channeling will increase the power of the boss' drain of that resource throughout the fight.

Selene

The archers gain the Taking Aim ability. Shortly before doing her bear heavy attack, she will spit a web on a random player that locks and traps that player. That player can be released by nearby players pressing the synergy button.

Stormreeve Neidir

The tornadoes now spawn throughout the fight. The boss throws a Lightning Link on two random players that incapacitates and drains health of players until broken. The link breaks once one of the two players die, or if one of the free players intercepts the link, attaching it to himself as a center point, then breaks the links on the crystal in the center, that is glowing blue while the link is active.

Mad Architect

The braziers around the room light up at 5% boss health increments. The black skeleton pits now teleport players into cages located in the falling into pool room, with respawning skeletons. Each cage can only accommodate one player, and for each player that got transferred into a cage, there is a Wraith spawned from the pit, plus one Bone Atronarch inside the cage. The Wraith has high resistances as long as their corresponding Bone Atronarch is alive. Killing both lets the caged player return to the boss. As long as there is someone in a cage, the purple braziers get lit faster. Once all braziers are lit the boss does one of this two special attacks. His Wall of Souls attack is now also damaging players in cages.There is no safe bubble anymore for his Purple Dome attack, instead there are two bubbles spawned near the boss, just like the ones in the SO Serpent fight.

The Guardian Council

The Guardian's Strength has 80% resistance to physical attacks, The Guardian's Spark has 80% resistance to magical attacks and The Guardian's Soul can only be damaged with ultimate abilities.

These are just off the top of my head...
I might also come up with other mechanics for Blessed Crucible, CoA, CoH etc.

With the Veteran Modes for the Dungeons, we wanted to create a more challenging version of the Normal Mode but not so challenging that they are unable to be completed. We are looking at the data to see if we hit that mark or not and will make adjustments as needed. The goal was not to make the dungeons as difficult as some of the more challenging dungeons (Ruins of Mazzatun, Cradle of Shadows, Imperial City Prison, Etc.).

When looking to compare and contrast, it would be best to use one of the old Veteran Dungeons such as Fungal Grotto, Banished Cells, Wayrest Sewers or Elden Hollow as a basis for comparison.

With the Veteran Modes for the Dungeons, we wanted to create a more challenging version of the Normal Mode but not so challenging that they are unable to be completed. We are looking at the data to see if we hit that mark or not and will make adjustments as needed. The goal was not to make the dungeons as difficult as some of the more challenging dungeons (Ruins of Mazzatun, Cradle of Shadows, Imperial City Prison, Etc.).

When looking to compare and contrast, it would be best to use one of the old Veteran Dungeons such as Fungal Grotto, Banished Cells, Wayrest Sewers or Elden Hollow as a basis for comparison.

Thanks guys and keep the feedback coming!

Hi @ZOS_Finn that's actually the level of difficulty I was hoping for with the new vet versions of the part I dungeons - something either at or slightly below the difficulty of the old vet Banished Cells, Fungal Grotto, etc. It doesn't seem to be there, though. It feels like it's the same difficulty as the non-vet version, but with additional health for the bosses (maybe the mobs too, I didn't notice). It felt like the incoming damage was too low (from the bosses in particular), and you could just stand in the red with no worries. I don't want these dungeons to be as challenging as the vet versions of the DLC dungeons - ideally I want them to be a stepping stone to the other vet dungeons.

One suggestion I had in another thread that might be enough to make these dungeons challenging enough is to make standing in the red (for boss fight mechanics) more of an issue by having each consecutive damage tick from it increase the damage over the previous one by a percentage (off the top of my head I said 15% increase on each tick, but that's essentially just a random number I threw out there, and it would require testing to see if it's too much or not enough). That way, if you're not super fast at rolling out of the red it's not going to instantly kill you, but the longer you stay in it the worse it will be for you. I feel like a mechanic like this is a good "training" mechanic to help get players into the habits they will need for the tougher vet dungeons.

With the Veteran Modes for the Dungeons, we wanted to create a more challenging version of the Normal Mode but not so challenging that they are unable to be completed. We are looking at the data to see if we hit that mark or not and will make adjustments as needed. The goal was not to make the dungeons as difficult as some of the more challenging dungeons (Ruins of Mazzatun, Cradle of Shadows, Imperial City Prison, Etc.).

When looking to compare and contrast, it would be best to use one of the old Veteran Dungeons such as Fungal Grotto, Banished Cells, Wayrest Sewers or Elden Hollow as a basis for comparison.

Thanks guys and keep the feedback coming!

I agree with what @UrQuan wrote above. I don't expect them to be at the level of DLC dungeons, nor do I think that would be a good idea. But they do seem a bit too easy.

I think the health of the enemies on the PTS is fine. With too little health, and things will die before any interesting mechanics happen, but with too much health, things become just a tedious slog (*cough* vet trials trash pulls *cough*) that just sucks time without really challenging players. And with that in mind, I think the health levels are fine as they are.

The part that I think could use a little adjustment is the incoming damage on boss fights. There are mechanics, but it doesn't feel like those mechanics are punishing enough to warrant players paying much attention to them.

With the Veteran Modes for the Dungeons, we wanted to create a more challenging version of the Normal Mode but not so challenging that they are unable to be completed. We are looking at the data to see if we hit that mark or not and will make adjustments as needed. The goal was not to make the dungeons as difficult as some of the more challenging dungeons (Ruins of Mazzatun, Cradle of Shadows, Imperial City Prison, Etc.).

When looking to compare and contrast, it would be best to use one of the old Veteran Dungeons such as Fungal Grotto, Banished Cells, Wayrest Sewers or Elden Hollow as a basis for comparison.

Thanks guys and keep the feedback coming!

The feedback you can read in this thread is that the new vet versions are easier than base game veteran dungeons.

Since all the reworked dungeons are given by Glirion, while old ones are given by Maj, it would be intuitive to think that those given by Glirion are a bit harder than those given by Maj.
Yet those would be easier than DLC dungeons, given by the new NPC.

All of the veteran dungeon bosses gain some kind of a new mechanic with the Hard Mode.
Simply adding health to the boss can't be all there is to a Hard Mode, can it?

With the Veteran Modes for the Dungeons, we wanted to create a more challenging version of the Normal Mode but not so challenging that they are unable to be completed. We are looking at the data to see if we hit that mark or not and will make adjustments as needed. The goal was not to make the dungeons as difficult as some of the more challenging dungeons (Ruins of Mazzatun, Cradle of Shadows, Imperial City Prison, Etc.).

When looking to compare and contrast, it would be best to use one of the old Veteran Dungeons such as Fungal Grotto, Banished Cells, Wayrest Sewers or Elden Hollow as a basis for comparison.

Thanks guys and keep the feedback coming!

Agreed, goal should not be to make these new dungeons as difficult as Shadow of craddle, ICP etc....

I am around 700 CP and want dungeons to be much challenging but again lot of players will be unable to do and struggle for new contents.. I saw many struggling (eventually quit) at Vet Shadow or Muzatun dungeons..
Even less than 350 CP hardly able to do VGWT and quit frequently..

Currently set difficult is good enough for players, due to few players chanting on forum, you should not make these dungeons difficult like ICP..

You're refering to a different set... the set that gives minor slayer is called "infallible mage" and it still drops in trials, the set you are linking is called "wise mage" and is an older set that is replacing the BoE sets that used to drop in trials. It never had the minor slayer bonus

With the Veteran Modes for the Dungeons, we wanted to create a more challenging version of the Normal Mode but not so challenging that they are unable to be completed. We are looking at the data to see if we hit that mark or not and will make adjustments as needed. The goal was not to make the dungeons as difficult as some of the more challenging dungeons (Ruins of Mazzatun, Cradle of Shadows, Imperial City Prison, Etc.).

When looking to compare and contrast, it would be best to use one of the old Veteran Dungeons such as Fungal Grotto, Banished Cells, Wayrest Sewers or Elden Hollow as a basis for comparison.

Thanks guys and keep the feedback coming!

Agreed, goal should not be to make these new dungeons as difficult as Shadow of craddle, ICP etc....

I am around 700 CP and want dungeons to be much challenging but again lot of players will be unable to do and struggle for new contents.. u saw many struggling (eventually quit) at Vet Shadow or Muzatun dungeons..

Currently set difficult is good enough for players, due to few players chanting on forum, you should not make these dungeons difficult like ICP..

And nobody is advocating that.
We want new vet versions more difficult than they currently are, and less difficult than DLC dungeons.

With the Veteran Modes for the Dungeons, we wanted to create a more challenging version of the Normal Mode but not so challenging that they are unable to be completed. We are looking at the data to see if we hit that mark or not and will make adjustments as needed. The goal was not to make the dungeons as difficult as some of the more challenging dungeons (Ruins of Mazzatun, Cradle of Shadows, Imperial City Prison, Etc.).

When looking to compare and contrast, it would be best to use one of the old Veteran Dungeons such as Fungal Grotto, Banished Cells, Wayrest Sewers or Elden Hollow as a basis for comparison.

Thanks guys and keep the feedback coming!

Agreed, goal should not be to make these new dungeons as difficult as Shadow of craddle, ICP etc....

I am around 700 CP and want dungeons to be much challenging but again lot of players will be unable to do and struggle for new contents.. u saw many struggling (eventually quit) at Vet Shadow or Muzatun dungeons..

Currently set difficult is good enough for players, due to few players chanting on forum, you should not make these dungeons difficult like ICP..

And nobody is advocating that.
We want new vet versions more difficult than they currently are, and less difficult than DLC dungeons.

My suggestion is to to make veteran hard mode (after reading book etc..) more Harder..

With the Veteran Modes for the Dungeons, we wanted to create a more challenging version of the Normal Mode but not so challenging that they are unable to be completed. We are looking at the data to see if we hit that mark or not and will make adjustments as needed. The goal was not to make the dungeons as difficult as some of the more challenging dungeons (Ruins of Mazzatun, Cradle of Shadows, Imperial City Prison, Etc.).

When looking to compare and contrast, it would be best to use one of the old Veteran Dungeons such as Fungal Grotto, Banished Cells, Wayrest Sewers or Elden Hollow as a basis for comparison.

Thanks guys and keep the feedback coming!

Agreed, goal should not be to make these new dungeons as difficult as Shadow of craddle, ICP etc....

I am around 700 CP and want dungeons to be much challenging but again lot of players will be unable to do and struggle for new contents.. u saw many struggling (eventually quit) at Vet Shadow or Muzatun dungeons..

Currently set difficult is good enough for players, due to few players chanting on forum, you should not make these dungeons difficult like ICP..

And nobody is advocating that.
We want new vet versions more difficult than they currently are, and less difficult than DLC dungeons.

My suggestion is to to make veteran hard mode (after reading book etc..) more Harder..

With the Veteran Modes for the Dungeons, we wanted to create a more challenging version of the Normal Mode but not so challenging that they are unable to be completed. We are looking at the data to see if we hit that mark or not and will make adjustments as needed. The goal was not to make the dungeons as difficult as some of the more challenging dungeons (Ruins of Mazzatun, Cradle of Shadows, Imperial City Prison, Etc.).

When looking to compare and contrast, it would be best to use one of the old Veteran Dungeons such as Fungal Grotto, Banished Cells, Wayrest Sewers or Elden Hollow as a basis for comparison.

Thanks guys and keep the feedback coming!

Agreed, goal should not be to make these new dungeons as difficult as Shadow of craddle, ICP etc....

I am around 700 CP and want dungeons to be much challenging but again lot of players will be unable to do and struggle for new contents.. u saw many struggling (eventually quit) at Vet Shadow or Muzatun dungeons..

Currently set difficult is good enough for players, due to few players chanting on forum, you should not make these dungeons difficult like ICP..

And nobody is advocating that.
We want new vet versions more difficult than they currently are, and less difficult than DLC dungeons.

My suggestion is to to make veteran hard mode (after reading book etc..) more Harder..

Should not touch Veteran mode difficulty.

I'd be OK with the first part, but I don't agree with the part that I bolded. IMO a group that can comfortably complete non-vet Banished Cells I (but not faceroll it) should be able to go into vet Banished Cells I and find it challenging, but doable with some effort.

That's not the way the progression is currently going on PTS. On PTS a group that can comfortably complete non-vet Banished Cells I can go into vet Banished Cells I and complete it with no additional effort, it will just take a bit longer.

With the Veteran Modes for the Dungeons, we wanted to create a more challenging version of the Normal Mode but not so challenging that they are unable to be completed. We are looking at the data to see if we hit that mark or not and will make adjustments as needed. The goal was not to make the dungeons as difficult as some of the more challenging dungeons (Ruins of Mazzatun, Cradle of Shadows, Imperial City Prison, Etc.).

When looking to compare and contrast, it would be best to use one of the old Veteran Dungeons such as Fungal Grotto, Banished Cells, Wayrest Sewers or Elden Hollow as a basis for comparison.

Thanks guys and keep the feedback coming!

I Wonder, don't you think that out of 17 new dungeon, Vault of Madness could have been made more challenging then other since he is the last dungeon of the game (technicly) and isn't bound to any of the regular achievement system such as Faction Dungeon Achievement or Overall Speed and Death Challenge mode ?