I have been a Christian for years, and what do I get? God aweful misery, pun intended. What the Hades is my darn blessing? Do not give me that "we all deserve Hell" crap. I did not choose to be a sinner. God inflicted that on me because He has a beef with Adam and Eve. I call shanagans on God for oh so many things. I love with my whole heart, but receive only emotional Hell in return. Prayer has become a chance to tell god to eff off. If this makes me a s****y person, so the eff what. I am tired of trying and acheiving nothing. I have nothing, I am nothing, I feel nothing but horrible depression. Go ahead, normal people, tell me how crazy I am.

Jesus is the only way to be saved.http://www.biblegateway.com...
Liberalism is the superior philosophy.
If you are going to talk dirty to me, say it in Spanish.
I will respect you if you respect me. Otherwise, no.

At 8/23/2013 2:46:54 AM, SitaraPorDios wrote:I have been a Christian for years, and what do I get? God aweful misery, pun intended. What the Hades is my darn blessing? Do not give me that "we all deserve Hell" crap. I did not choose to be a sinner. God inflicted that on me because He has a beef with Adam and Eve. I call shanagans on God for oh so many things. I love with my whole heart, but receive only emotional Hell in return. Prayer has become a chance to tell god to eff off. If this makes me a s****y person, so the eff what. I am tired of trying and acheiving nothing. I have nothing, I am nothing, I feel nothing but horrible depression. Go ahead, normal people, tell me how crazy I am.

Think about all the human suffering that has come before you. Every slave, every child raped, every person drowned, every persons who life was short and brutal.

But what were led to believe ? that if you made the right affirmations to a deity ? if you believed certain metaphysical propositions that the same God who did nothing for those people would watch out for you personally ? what because your special ? you are some how more deserving of it's attention and intervention than them ?

"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12

At 8/23/2013 2:46:54 AM, SitaraPorDios wrote:I have been a Christian for years, and what do I get? God aweful misery, pun intended. What the Hades is my darn blessing? Do not give me that "we all deserve Hell" crap. I did not choose to be a sinner. God inflicted that on me because He has a beef with Adam and Eve. I call shanagans on God for oh so many things. I love with my whole heart, but receive only emotional Hell in return. Prayer has become a chance to tell god to eff off. If this makes me a s****y person, so the eff what. I am tired of trying and acheiving nothing. I have nothing, I am nothing, I feel nothing but horrible depression. Go ahead, normal people, tell me how crazy I am.

While In general I agree with many of these points against the concept of god, I'm not sure how healthy your current state of mind is, and therefore whether it's a good idea to trust your changing philosophy.

I mean that kindly, as in: Are you okay?

Assistant moderator to airmax1227. PM me with any questions or concerns!

At 8/23/2013 2:46:54 AM, SitaraPorDios wrote:I have been a Christian for years, and what do I get? God aweful misery, pun intended. What the Hades is my darn blessing? Do not give me that "we all deserve Hell" crap. I did not choose to be a sinner. God inflicted that on me because He has a beef with Adam and Eve. I call shanagans on God for oh so many things. I love with my whole heart, but receive only emotional Hell in return. Prayer has become a chance to tell god to eff off. If this makes me a s****y person, so the eff what. I am tired of trying and acheiving nothing. I have nothing, I am nothing, I feel nothing but horrible depression. Go ahead, normal people, tell me how crazy I am.

At least you believe there is a God who created this delusion we're living in. You're right, it's okay to tell God to F*** O**. It's much better than Christians who say their false gods would never consider creating this delusion and blame it all on satan, who doesn't even exist as a being. Even Adam and Eve blamed satan instead of our Creator for their demise.

At 8/23/2013 2:46:54 AM, SitaraPorDios wrote:I have been a Christian for years, and what do I get? God aweful misery, pun intended. What the Hades is my darn blessing? Do not give me that "we all deserve Hell" crap. I did not choose to be a sinner. God inflicted that on me because He has a beef with Adam and Eve. I call shanagans on God for oh so many things. I love with my whole heart, but receive only emotional Hell in return. Prayer has become a chance to tell god to eff off. If this makes me a s****y person, so the eff what. I am tired of trying and acheiving nothing. I have nothing, I am nothing, I feel nothing but horrible depression. Go ahead, normal people, tell me how crazy I am.

I have been bullied my entire life, so no.

While In general I agree with many of these points against the concept of god, I'm not sure how healthy your current state of mind is, and therefore whether it's a good idea to trust your changing philosophy.

I mean that kindly, as in: Are you okay?

No. I have been bullied my entire life. I am tired of playing the good Christian and getting nothing in return. in all sincerity, thank you for being sweet enough to care. Muah.

Jesus is the only way to be saved.http://www.biblegateway.com...
Liberalism is the superior philosophy.
If you are going to talk dirty to me, say it in Spanish.
I will respect you if you respect me. Otherwise, no.

At 8/23/2013 2:46:54 AM, SitaraPorDios wrote:I have been a Christian for years, and what do I get? God aweful misery, pun intended. What the Hades is my darn blessing? Do not give me that "we all deserve Hell" crap.

The greatest commandment is to love your God with all your heart, soul and mind. Those who can do this may enter the Kingdom of God. Oops, but here's the catch, for as long as you sin, even once, you have failed this commandment. We all deserve to go to Hell. Why? Heaven is a place for the perfect, an eternally great reward for those who have achieved eternal greatness. Those who have achieved eternal greatness are the ones who never sinned and fully relied on God. So in conclusion, no one who has ever sinned is worthy of Heaven. Only God makes us worthy through his great mercy.

I did not choose to be a sinner.

Yes you did. All sin you have committed is sin of your own free will. Sin didn't just "pop up" into existence with Adam and Eve. The choice to sin was always there, they were just the first ones to do it.

God inflicted that on me because He has a beef with Adam and Eve.

Nope. Look at answer above.

I call shanagans on God for oh so many things. I love with my whole heart, but receive only emotional Hell in return.

You don't rely on him enough. You oppose him too much in thought to truly love him with your whole heart. If you really choose to open yourself up, and accept that you need Him to live a good life and enter Heaven, he will help you.

Prayer has become a chance to tell god to eff off. If this makes me a s****y person, so the eff what.

Definitely doesn't sound like you love him with your whole heart right here, now does it? Who do you think knows better, an ignorant sinful human, or God? Don't act as if you are above him, for he is above all things.

I am tired of trying and acheiving nothing.

I'm sure that's not true. It's most likely a lot of bullsh*t you've taken from being emotionally abused.

I have nothing, I am nothing, I feel nothing but horrible depression.

Come to God in fullness, and he will help you. Do not reject him in any way. Again, what you just said about "having nothing and being nothing" is just a bunch of bullsh*t you think due to being emotionally abused.

At 8/23/2013 2:46:54 AM, SitaraPorDios wrote:I have been a Christian for years, and what do I get? God aweful misery, pun intended. What the Hades is my darn blessing? Do not give me that "we all deserve Hell" crap.

The greatest commandment is to love your God with all your heart, soul and mind. Those who can do this may enter the Kingdom of God. Oops, but here's the catch, for as long as you sin, even once, you have failed this commandment. We all deserve to go to Hell. Why? Heaven is a place for the perfect, an eternally great reward for those who have achieved eternal greatness. Those who have achieved eternal greatness are the ones who never sinned and fully relied on God. So in conclusion, no one who has ever sinned is worthy of Heaven. Only God makes us worthy through his great mercy.

I did not choose to be a sinner.

Yes you did. All sin you have committed is sin of your own free will. Sin didn't just "pop up" into existence with Adam and Eve. The choice to sin was always there, they were just the first ones to do it.

God inflicted that on me because He has a beef with Adam and Eve.

Nope. Look at answer above.

I call shanagans on God for oh so many things. I love with my whole heart, but receive only emotional Hell in return.

You don't rely on him enough. You oppose him too much in thought to truly love him with your whole heart. If you really choose to open yourself up, and accept that you need Him to live a good life and enter Heaven, he will help you.

Prayer has become a chance to tell god to eff off. If this makes me a s****y person, so the eff what.

Definitely doesn't sound like you love him with your whole heart right here, now does it? Who do you think knows better, an ignorant sinful human, or God? Don't act as if you are above him, for he is above all things.

I am tired of trying and acheiving nothing.

I'm sure that's not true. It's most likely a lot of bullsh*t you've taken from being emotionally abused.

I have nothing, I am nothing, I feel nothing but horrible depression.

Come to God in fullness, and he will help you. Do not reject him in any way. Again, what you just said about "having nothing and being nothing" is just a bunch of bullsh*t you think due to being emotionally abused.

Go ahead, normal people, tell me how crazy I am.

You're not crazy. Just misunderstood.

You are wrong. The sin nature is inflicted on innocent victims because God has a beef with Adam and Eve for something that is HIS fault. God created Satan. God put the damn tree in the garden, and no I did not choose to have a sin nature. What happened to "children shall not be put to death for their fathers"? Oh right, that works when it fits YOUR agenda.

Jesus is the only way to be saved.http://www.biblegateway.com...
Liberalism is the superior philosophy.
If you are going to talk dirty to me, say it in Spanish.
I will respect you if you respect me. Otherwise, no.

At 8/23/2013 2:46:54 AM, SitaraPorDios wrote:I have been a Christian for years, and what do I get? God aweful misery, pun intended. What the Hades is my darn blessing? Do not give me that "we all deserve Hell" crap.

The greatest commandment is to love your God with all your heart, soul and mind. Those who can do this may enter the Kingdom of God. Oops, but here's the catch, for as long as you sin, even once, you have failed this commandment. We all deserve to go to Hell. Why? Heaven is a place for the perfect, an eternally great reward for those who have achieved eternal greatness. Those who have achieved eternal greatness are the ones who never sinned and fully relied on God. So in conclusion, no one who has ever sinned is worthy of Heaven. Only God makes us worthy through his great mercy.

I did not choose to be a sinner.

Yes you did. All sin you have committed is sin of your own free will. Sin didn't just "pop up" into existence with Adam and Eve. The choice to sin was always there, they were just the first ones to do it.

God inflicted that on me because He has a beef with Adam and Eve.

Nope. Look at answer above.

I call shanagans on God for oh so many things. I love with my whole heart, but receive only emotional Hell in return.

You don't rely on him enough. You oppose him too much in thought to truly love him with your whole heart. If you really choose to open yourself up, and accept that you need Him to live a good life and enter Heaven, he will help you.

Prayer has become a chance to tell god to eff off. If this makes me a s****y person, so the eff what.

Definitely doesn't sound like you love him with your whole heart right here, now does it? Who do you think knows better, an ignorant sinful human, or God? Don't act as if you are above him, for he is above all things.

I am tired of trying and acheiving nothing.

I'm sure that's not true. It's most likely a lot of bullsh*t you've taken from being emotionally abused.

I have nothing, I am nothing, I feel nothing but horrible depression.

Come to God in fullness, and he will help you. Do not reject him in any way. Again, what you just said about "having nothing and being nothing" is just a bunch of bullsh*t you think due to being emotionally abused.

Go ahead, normal people, tell me how crazy I am.

You're not crazy. Just misunderstood.

You are wrong. The sin nature is inflicted on innocent victims because God has a beef with Adam and Eve for something that is HIS fault. God created Satan. God put the damn tree in the garden, and no I did not choose to have a sin nature. What happened to "children shall not be put to death for their fathers"? Oh right, that works when it fits YOUR agenda.

God did not create sin, nor did he make humans with a sinful nature

God created Lucifer, and Angel of good. Like all Angels, Lucifer was made with his own free will. Lucifer opposed God (Thus creating the first sin, in a supernatural sense) and God cast him out of Heaven. This was done for other Angels too; now they are known as demons.

Lucifer, now known as Satan, brought sin into the world. He is the one who tempts others into sinning. Now being punished eternally for opposing God, he wants others to oppose him also, for his hatred for God is the greatest among all.

God created humans with free will. The choice to sin has always existed, but now a new factor has come in. The temptation to sin. This was brought on by Satan, who tempted Adam and Even to sin in the garden.

God had nothing against Adam and Eve. After all, it was he who gave them the Garden of Eden, which is closely compared to Heaven on Earth. God told them that for as long as they obeyed, loved, and followed them he would allow them to have the great rewards God has to offer.

Satan comes in and tempts them into sin. Adam and Even fall into sin. They broke their promise to God, therefore God being the just God that he is, punished them by taking away the great things he had given them.

The nature of sin, is something that has always been a choice due to God's gift of free will. Satan and his demons are the ones who added in the factor of temptation.

At 8/23/2013 2:46:54 AM, SitaraPorDios wrote:I have been a Christian for years, and what do I get? God aweful misery, pun intended. What the Hades is my darn blessing? Do not give me that "we all deserve Hell" crap.

The greatest commandment is to love your God with all your heart, soul and mind. Those who can do this may enter the Kingdom of God. Oops, but here's the catch, for as long as you sin, even once, you have failed this commandment. We all deserve to go to Hell. Why? Heaven is a place for the perfect, an eternally great reward for those who have achieved eternal greatness. Those who have achieved eternal greatness are the ones who never sinned and fully relied on God. So in conclusion, no one who has ever sinned is worthy of Heaven. Only God makes us worthy through his great mercy.

I did not choose to be a sinner.

Yes you did. All sin you have committed is sin of your own free will. Sin didn't just "pop up" into existence with Adam and Eve. The choice to sin was always there, they were just the first ones to do it.

God inflicted that on me because He has a beef with Adam and Eve.

Nope. Look at answer above.

I call shanagans on God for oh so many things. I love with my whole heart, but receive only emotional Hell in return.

You don't rely on him enough. You oppose him too much in thought to truly love him with your whole heart. If you really choose to open yourself up, and accept that you need Him to live a good life and enter Heaven, he will help you.

Prayer has become a chance to tell god to eff off. If this makes me a s****y person, so the eff what.

Definitely doesn't sound like you love him with your whole heart right here, now does it? Who do you think knows better, an ignorant sinful human, or God? Don't act as if you are above him, for he is above all things.

I am tired of trying and acheiving nothing.

I'm sure that's not true. It's most likely a lot of bullsh*t you've taken from being emotionally abused.

I have nothing, I am nothing, I feel nothing but horrible depression.

Come to God in fullness, and he will help you. Do not reject him in any way. Again, what you just said about "having nothing and being nothing" is just a bunch of bullsh*t you think due to being emotionally abused.

Go ahead, normal people, tell me how crazy I am.

You're not crazy. Just misunderstood.

You are wrong. The sin nature is inflicted on innocent victims because God has a beef with Adam and Eve for something that is HIS fault. God created Satan. God put the damn tree in the garden, and no I did not choose to have a sin nature. What happened to "children shall not be put to death for their fathers"? Oh right, that works when it fits YOUR agenda.

God did not create sin, nor did he make humans with a sinful nature

God created Lucifer, and Angel of good. Like all Angels, Lucifer was made with his own free will. Lucifer opposed God (Thus creating the first sin, in a supernatural sense) and God cast him out of Heaven. This was done for other Angels too; now they are known as demons.

Lucifer, now known as Satan, brought sin into the world. He is the one who tempts others into sinning. Now being punished eternally for opposing God, he wants others to oppose him also, for his hatred for God is the greatest among all.

God created humans with free will. The choice to sin has always existed, but now a new factor has come in. The temptation to sin. This was brought on by Satan, who tempted Adam and Even to sin in the garden.

God had nothing against Adam and Eve. After all, it was he who gave them the Garden of Eden, which is closely compared to Heaven on Earth. God told them that for as long as they obeyed, loved, and followed them he would allow them to have the great rewards God has to offer.

Satan comes in and tempts them into sin. Adam and Even fall into sin. They broke their promise to God, therefore God being the just God that he is, punished them by taking away the great things he had given them.

The nature of sin, is something that has always been a choice due to God's gift of free will. Satan and his demons are the ones who added in the factor of temptation.

Blame Satan, but never, ever, blame God.

God created Satan. Check mate.

Jesus is the only way to be saved.http://www.biblegateway.com...
Liberalism is the superior philosophy.
If you are going to talk dirty to me, say it in Spanish.
I will respect you if you respect me. Otherwise, no.

At 8/23/2013 2:46:54 AM, SitaraPorDios wrote:I have been a Christian for years, and what do I get? God aweful misery, pun intended. What the Hades is my darn blessing? Do not give me that "we all deserve Hell" crap.

The greatest commandment is to love your God with all your heart, soul and mind. Those who can do this may enter the Kingdom of God. Oops, but here's the catch, for as long as you sin, even once, you have failed this commandment. We all deserve to go to Hell. Why? Heaven is a place for the perfect, an eternally great reward for those who have achieved eternal greatness. Those who have achieved eternal greatness are the ones who never sinned and fully relied on God. So in conclusion, no one who has ever sinned is worthy of Heaven. Only God makes us worthy through his great mercy.

I did not choose to be a sinner.

Yes you did. All sin you have committed is sin of your own free will. Sin didn't just "pop up" into existence with Adam and Eve. The choice to sin was always there, they were just the first ones to do it.

God inflicted that on me because He has a beef with Adam and Eve.

Nope. Look at answer above.

I call shanagans on God for oh so many things. I love with my whole heart, but receive only emotional Hell in return.

You don't rely on him enough. You oppose him too much in thought to truly love him with your whole heart. If you really choose to open yourself up, and accept that you need Him to live a good life and enter Heaven, he will help you.

Prayer has become a chance to tell god to eff off. If this makes me a s****y person, so the eff what.

Definitely doesn't sound like you love him with your whole heart right here, now does it? Who do you think knows better, an ignorant sinful human, or God? Don't act as if you are above him, for he is above all things.

I am tired of trying and acheiving nothing.

I'm sure that's not true. It's most likely a lot of bullsh*t you've taken from being emotionally abused.

I have nothing, I am nothing, I feel nothing but horrible depression.

Come to God in fullness, and he will help you. Do not reject him in any way. Again, what you just said about "having nothing and being nothing" is just a bunch of bullsh*t you think due to being emotionally abused.

Go ahead, normal people, tell me how crazy I am.

You're not crazy. Just misunderstood.

You are wrong. The sin nature is inflicted on innocent victims because God has a beef with Adam and Eve for something that is HIS fault. God created Satan. God put the damn tree in the garden, and no I did not choose to have a sin nature. What happened to "children shall not be put to death for their fathers"? Oh right, that works when it fits YOUR agenda.

God did not create sin, nor did he make humans with a sinful nature

God created Lucifer, and Angel of good. Like all Angels, Lucifer was made with his own free will. Lucifer opposed God (Thus creating the first sin, in a supernatural sense) and God cast him out of Heaven. This was done for other Angels too; now they are known as demons.

Lucifer, now known as Satan, brought sin into the world. He is the one who tempts others into sinning. Now being punished eternally for opposing God, he wants others to oppose him also, for his hatred for God is the greatest among all.

God created humans with free will. The choice to sin has always existed, but now a new factor has come in. The temptation to sin. This was brought on by Satan, who tempted Adam and Even to sin in the garden.

God had nothing against Adam and Eve. After all, it was he who gave them the Garden of Eden, which is closely compared to Heaven on Earth. God told them that for as long as they obeyed, loved, and followed them he would allow them to have the great rewards God has to offer.

Satan comes in and tempts them into sin. Adam and Even fall into sin. They broke their promise to God, therefore God being the just God that he is, punished them by taking away the great things he had given them.

The nature of sin, is something that has always been a choice due to God's gift of free will. Satan and his demons are the ones who added in the factor of temptation.

Blame Satan, but never, ever, blame God.

God created Satan. Check mate.

God created Lucifer, and Angel of good. Like all Angels, Lucifer was made with his own free will. Lucifer opposed God (Thus creating the first sin, in a supernatural sense) and God cast him out of Heaven. This was done for other Angels too; now they are known as demons.

Lucifer, now known as Satan, brought sin into the world. He is the one who tempts others into sinning. Now being punished eternally for opposing God, he wants others to oppose him also, for his hatred for God is the greatest among all.

At 8/23/2013 2:46:54 AM, SitaraPorDios wrote:I have been a Christian for years, and what do I get? God aweful misery, pun intended. What the Hades is my darn blessing? Do not give me that "we all deserve Hell" crap.

The greatest commandment is to love your God with all your heart, soul and mind. Those who can do this may enter the Kingdom of God. Oops, but here's the catch, for as long as you sin, even once, you have failed this commandment. We all deserve to go to Hell. Why? Heaven is a place for the perfect, an eternally great reward for those who have achieved eternal greatness. Those who have achieved eternal greatness are the ones who never sinned and fully relied on God. So in conclusion, no one who has ever sinned is worthy of Heaven. Only God makes us worthy through his great mercy.

I did not choose to be a sinner.

Yes you did. All sin you have committed is sin of your own free will. Sin didn't just "pop up" into existence with Adam and Eve. The choice to sin was always there, they were just the first ones to do it.

God inflicted that on me because He has a beef with Adam and Eve.

Nope. Look at answer above.

I call shanagans on God for oh so many things. I love with my whole heart, but receive only emotional Hell in return.

You don't rely on him enough. You oppose him too much in thought to truly love him with your whole heart. If you really choose to open yourself up, and accept that you need Him to live a good life and enter Heaven, he will help you.

Prayer has become a chance to tell god to eff off. If this makes me a s****y person, so the eff what.

Definitely doesn't sound like you love him with your whole heart right here, now does it? Who do you think knows better, an ignorant sinful human, or God? Don't act as if you are above him, for he is above all things.

I am tired of trying and acheiving nothing.

I'm sure that's not true. It's most likely a lot of bullsh*t you've taken from being emotionally abused.

I have nothing, I am nothing, I feel nothing but horrible depression.

Come to God in fullness, and he will help you. Do not reject him in any way. Again, what you just said about "having nothing and being nothing" is just a bunch of bullsh*t you think due to being emotionally abused.

Go ahead, normal people, tell me how crazy I am.

You're not crazy. Just misunderstood.

You are wrong. The sin nature is inflicted on innocent victims because God has a beef with Adam and Eve for something that is HIS fault. God created Satan. God put the damn tree in the garden, and no I did not choose to have a sin nature. What happened to "children shall not be put to death for their fathers"? Oh right, that works when it fits YOUR agenda.

God did not create sin, nor did he make humans with a sinful nature

God created Lucifer, and Angel of good. Like all Angels, Lucifer was made with his own free will. Lucifer opposed God (Thus creating the first sin, in a supernatural sense) and God cast him out of Heaven. This was done for other Angels too; now they are known as demons.

Lucifer, now known as Satan, brought sin into the world. He is the one who tempts others into sinning. Now being punished eternally for opposing God, he wants others to oppose him also, for his hatred for God is the greatest among all.

God created humans with free will. The choice to sin has always existed, but now a new factor has come in. The temptation to sin. This was brought on by Satan, who tempted Adam and Even to sin in the garden.

God had nothing against Adam and Eve. After all, it was he who gave them the Garden of Eden, which is closely compared to Heaven on Earth. God told them that for as long as they obeyed, loved, and followed them he would allow them to have the great rewards God has to offer.

Satan comes in and tempts them into sin. Adam and Even fall into sin. They broke their promise to God, therefore God being the just God that he is, punished them by taking away the great things he had given them.

The nature of sin, is something that has always been a choice due to God's gift of free will. Satan and his demons are the ones who added in the factor of temptation.

Blame Satan, but never, ever, blame God.

God created Satan. Check mate.

God created Lucifer, and Angel of good. Like all Angels, Lucifer was made with his own free will. Lucifer opposed God (Thus creating the first sin, in a supernatural sense) and God cast him out of Heaven. This was done for other Angels too; now they are known as demons.

Lucifer, now known as Satan, brought sin into the world. He is the one who tempts others into sinning. Now being punished eternally for opposing God, he wants others to oppose him also, for his hatred for God is the greatest among all.

Nothing exists without God, including evil.

Jesus is the only way to be saved.http://www.biblegateway.com...
Liberalism is the superior philosophy.
If you are going to talk dirty to me, say it in Spanish.
I will respect you if you respect me. Otherwise, no.

At 8/23/2013 2:46:54 AM, SitaraPorDios wrote:I have been a Christian for years, and what do I get? God aweful misery, pun intended. What the Hades is my darn blessing? Do not give me that "we all deserve Hell" crap.

The greatest commandment is to love your God with all your heart, soul and mind. Those who can do this may enter the Kingdom of God. Oops, but here's the catch, for as long as you sin, even once, you have failed this commandment. We all deserve to go to Hell. Why? Heaven is a place for the perfect, an eternally great reward for those who have achieved eternal greatness. Those who have achieved eternal greatness are the ones who never sinned and fully relied on God. So in conclusion, no one who has ever sinned is worthy of Heaven. Only God makes us worthy through his great mercy.

I did not choose to be a sinner.

Yes you did. All sin you have committed is sin of your own free will. Sin didn't just "pop up" into existence with Adam and Eve. The choice to sin was always there, they were just the first ones to do it.

God inflicted that on me because He has a beef with Adam and Eve.

Nope. Look at answer above.

I call shanagans on God for oh so many things. I love with my whole heart, but receive only emotional Hell in return.

You don't rely on him enough. You oppose him too much in thought to truly love him with your whole heart. If you really choose to open yourself up, and accept that you need Him to live a good life and enter Heaven, he will help you.

Prayer has become a chance to tell god to eff off. If this makes me a s****y person, so the eff what.

Definitely doesn't sound like you love him with your whole heart right here, now does it? Who do you think knows better, an ignorant sinful human, or God? Don't act as if you are above him, for he is above all things.

I am tired of trying and acheiving nothing.

I'm sure that's not true. It's most likely a lot of bullsh*t you've taken from being emotionally abused.

I have nothing, I am nothing, I feel nothing but horrible depression.

Come to God in fullness, and he will help you. Do not reject him in any way. Again, what you just said about "having nothing and being nothing" is just a bunch of bullsh*t you think due to being emotionally abused.

Go ahead, normal people, tell me how crazy I am.

You're not crazy. Just misunderstood.

You are wrong. The sin nature is inflicted on innocent victims because God has a beef with Adam and Eve for something that is HIS fault. God created Satan. God put the damn tree in the garden, and no I did not choose to have a sin nature. What happened to "children shall not be put to death for their fathers"? Oh right, that works when it fits YOUR agenda.

God did not create sin, nor did he make humans with a sinful nature

God created Lucifer, and Angel of good. Like all Angels, Lucifer was made with his own free will. Lucifer opposed God (Thus creating the first sin, in a supernatural sense) and God cast him out of Heaven. This was done for other Angels too; now they are known as demons.

Lucifer, now known as Satan, brought sin into the world. He is the one who tempts others into sinning. Now being punished eternally for opposing God, he wants others to oppose him also, for his hatred for God is the greatest among all.

God created humans with free will. The choice to sin has always existed, but now a new factor has come in. The temptation to sin. This was brought on by Satan, who tempted Adam and Even to sin in the garden.

God had nothing against Adam and Eve. After all, it was he who gave them the Garden of Eden, which is closely compared to Heaven on Earth. God told them that for as long as they obeyed, loved, and followed them he would allow them to have the great rewards God has to offer.

Satan comes in and tempts them into sin. Adam and Even fall into sin. They broke their promise to God, therefore God being the just God that he is, punished them by taking away the great things he had given them.

The nature of sin, is something that has always been a choice due to God's gift of free will. Satan and his demons are the ones who added in the factor of temptation.

Blame Satan, but never, ever, blame God.

God created Satan. Check mate.

God created Lucifer, and Angel of good. Like all Angels, Lucifer was made with his own free will. Lucifer opposed God (Thus creating the first sin, in a supernatural sense) and God cast him out of Heaven. This was done for other Angels too; now they are known as demons.

Lucifer, now known as Satan, brought sin into the world. He is the one who tempts others into sinning. Now being punished eternally for opposing God, he wants others to oppose him also, for his hatred for God is the greatest among all.

Nothing exists without God, including evil.

This would assume that God directly created sin. This is false, for it is of God's very nature to oppose sin to it's fullest.

God created free will, because he wanted people to love and follow him of their own will. Out of the creation of free will, so did the ability to oppose God.

This is how sin was born. It was an indirect creation of God, for God wanted people to come to him out of their own sense of love, and goodness. God knew that in order for true love, between humans (or angels) and God, sin must come into the world.

However, love, is a powerful thing. SO powerful in fact that God allowed sin into the world, just so true love between him and his servants could exist.

At 8/23/2013 2:46:54 AM, SitaraPorDios wrote:I have been a Christian for years, and what do I get? God aweful misery, pun intended. What the Hades is my darn blessing? Do not give me that "we all deserve Hell" crap.

The greatest commandment is to love your God with all your heart, soul and mind. Those who can do this may enter the Kingdom of God. Oops, but here's the catch, for as long as you sin, even once, you have failed this commandment. We all deserve to go to Hell. Why? Heaven is a place for the perfect, an eternally great reward for those who have achieved eternal greatness. Those who have achieved eternal greatness are the ones who never sinned and fully relied on God. So in conclusion, no one who has ever sinned is worthy of Heaven. Only God makes us worthy through his great mercy.

I did not choose to be a sinner.

Yes you did. All sin you have committed is sin of your own free will. Sin didn't just "pop up" into existence with Adam and Eve. The choice to sin was always there, they were just the first ones to do it.

God inflicted that on me because He has a beef with Adam and Eve.

Nope. Look at answer above.

I call shanagans on God for oh so many things. I love with my whole heart, but receive only emotional Hell in return.

You don't rely on him enough. You oppose him too much in thought to truly love him with your whole heart. If you really choose to open yourself up, and accept that you need Him to live a good life and enter Heaven, he will help you.

Prayer has become a chance to tell god to eff off. If this makes me a s****y person, so the eff what.

Definitely doesn't sound like you love him with your whole heart right here, now does it? Who do you think knows better, an ignorant sinful human, or God? Don't act as if you are above him, for he is above all things.

I am tired of trying and acheiving nothing.

I'm sure that's not true. It's most likely a lot of bullsh*t you've taken from being emotionally abused.

I have nothing, I am nothing, I feel nothing but horrible depression.

Come to God in fullness, and he will help you. Do not reject him in any way. Again, what you just said about "having nothing and being nothing" is just a bunch of bullsh*t you think due to being emotionally abused.

Go ahead, normal people, tell me how crazy I am.

You're not crazy. Just misunderstood.

You are wrong. The sin nature is inflicted on innocent victims because God has a beef with Adam and Eve for something that is HIS fault. God created Satan. God put the damn tree in the garden, and no I did not choose to have a sin nature. What happened to "children shall not be put to death for their fathers"? Oh right, that works when it fits YOUR agenda.

God did not create sin, nor did he make humans with a sinful nature

God created Lucifer, and Angel of good. Like all Angels, Lucifer was made with his own free will. Lucifer opposed God (Thus creating the first sin, in a supernatural sense) and God cast him out of Heaven. This was done for other Angels too; now they are known as demons.

Lucifer, now known as Satan, brought sin into the world. He is the one who tempts others into sinning. Now being punished eternally for opposing God, he wants others to oppose him also, for his hatred for God is the greatest among all.

God created humans with free will. The choice to sin has always existed, but now a new factor has come in. The temptation to sin. This was brought on by Satan, who tempted Adam and Even to sin in the garden.

God had nothing against Adam and Eve. After all, it was he who gave them the Garden of Eden, which is closely compared to Heaven on Earth. God told them that for as long as they obeyed, loved, and followed them he would allow them to have the great rewards God has to offer.

Satan comes in and tempts them into sin. Adam and Even fall into sin. They broke their promise to God, therefore God being the just God that he is, punished them by taking away the great things he had given them.

The nature of sin, is something that has always been a choice due to God's gift of free will. Satan and his demons are the ones who added in the factor of temptation.

Blame Satan, but never, ever, blame God.

God created Satan. Check mate.

God created Lucifer, and Angel of good. Like all Angels, Lucifer was made with his own free will. Lucifer opposed God (Thus creating the first sin, in a supernatural sense) and God cast him out of Heaven. This was done for other Angels too; now they are known as demons.

Lucifer, now known as Satan, brought sin into the world. He is the one who tempts others into sinning. Now being punished eternally for opposing God, he wants others to oppose him also, for his hatred for God is the greatest among all.

Nothing exists without God, including evil.

This would assume that God directly created sin. This is false, for it is of God's very nature to oppose sin to it's fullest.

God created free will, because he wanted people to love and follow him of their own will. Out of the creation of free will, so did the ability to oppose God.

This is how sin was born. It was an indirect creation of God, for God wanted people to come to him out of their own sense of love, and goodness. God knew that in order for true love, between humans (or angels) and God, sin must come into the world.

However, love, is a powerful thing. SO powerful in fact that God allowed sin into the world, just so true love between him and his servants could exist.

"All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made." - St. John 1:3

At 8/23/2013 2:46:54 AM, SitaraPorDios wrote:I have been a Christian for years, and what do I get? God aweful misery, pun intended. What the Hades is my darn blessing? Do not give me that "we all deserve Hell" crap.

The greatest commandment is to love your God with all your heart, soul and mind. Those who can do this may enter the Kingdom of God. Oops, but here's the catch, for as long as you sin, even once, you have failed this commandment. We all deserve to go to Hell. Why? Heaven is a place for the perfect, an eternally great reward for those who have achieved eternal greatness. Those who have achieved eternal greatness are the ones who never sinned and fully relied on God. So in conclusion, no one who has ever sinned is worthy of Heaven. Only God makes us worthy through his great mercy.

I did not choose to be a sinner.

Yes you did. All sin you have committed is sin of your own free will. Sin didn't just "pop up" into existence with Adam and Eve. The choice to sin was always there, they were just the first ones to do it.

God inflicted that on me because He has a beef with Adam and Eve.

Nope. Look at answer above.

I call shanagans on God for oh so many things. I love with my whole heart, but receive only emotional Hell in return.

You don't rely on him enough. You oppose him too much in thought to truly love him with your whole heart. If you really choose to open yourself up, and accept that you need Him to live a good life and enter Heaven, he will help you.

Prayer has become a chance to tell god to eff off. If this makes me a s****y person, so the eff what.

Definitely doesn't sound like you love him with your whole heart right here, now does it? Who do you think knows better, an ignorant sinful human, or God? Don't act as if you are above him, for he is above all things.

I am tired of trying and acheiving nothing.

I'm sure that's not true. It's most likely a lot of bullsh*t you've taken from being emotionally abused.

I have nothing, I am nothing, I feel nothing but horrible depression.

Come to God in fullness, and he will help you. Do not reject him in any way. Again, what you just said about "having nothing and being nothing" is just a bunch of bullsh*t you think due to being emotionally abused.

Go ahead, normal people, tell me how crazy I am.

You're not crazy. Just misunderstood.

You are wrong. The sin nature is inflicted on innocent victims because God has a beef with Adam and Eve for something that is HIS fault. God created Satan. God put the damn tree in the garden, and no I did not choose to have a sin nature. What happened to "children shall not be put to death for their fathers"? Oh right, that works when it fits YOUR agenda.

God did not create sin, nor did he make humans with a sinful nature

God created Lucifer, and Angel of good. Like all Angels, Lucifer was made with his own free will. Lucifer opposed God (Thus creating the first sin, in a supernatural sense) and God cast him out of Heaven. This was done for other Angels too; now they are known as demons.

Lucifer, now known as Satan, brought sin into the world. He is the one who tempts others into sinning. Now being punished eternally for opposing God, he wants others to oppose him also, for his hatred for God is the greatest among all.

God created humans with free will. The choice to sin has always existed, but now a new factor has come in. The temptation to sin. This was brought on by Satan, who tempted Adam and Even to sin in the garden.

God had nothing against Adam and Eve. After all, it was he who gave them the Garden of Eden, which is closely compared to Heaven on Earth. God told them that for as long as they obeyed, loved, and followed them he would allow them to have the great rewards God has to offer.

Satan comes in and tempts them into sin. Adam and Even fall into sin. They broke their promise to God, therefore God being the just God that he is, punished them by taking away the great things he had given them.

The nature of sin, is something that has always been a choice due to God's gift of free will. Satan and his demons are the ones who added in the factor of temptation.

Blame Satan, but never, ever, blame God.

God created Satan. Check mate.

God created Lucifer, and Angel of good. Like all Angels, Lucifer was made with his own free will. Lucifer opposed God (Thus creating the first sin, in a supernatural sense) and God cast him out of Heaven. This was done for other Angels too; now they are known as demons.

Lucifer, now known as Satan, brought sin into the world. He is the one who tempts others into sinning. Now being punished eternally for opposing God, he wants others to oppose him also, for his hatred for God is the greatest among all.

Nothing exists without God, including evil.

This would assume that God directly created sin. This is false, for it is of God's very nature to oppose sin to it's fullest.

God created free will, because he wanted people to love and follow him of their own will. Out of the creation of free will, so did the ability to oppose God.

This is how sin was born. It was an indirect creation of God, for God wanted people to come to him out of their own sense of love, and goodness. God knew that in order for true love, between humans (or angels) and God, sin must come into the world.

However, love, is a powerful thing. SO powerful in fact that God allowed sin into the world, just so true love between him and his servants could exist.

"All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made." - St. John 1:3

If the Devil created sin, then, explain that verse.

i already stated that God indirectly "created" (Very, very heavy quoting on that) sin because he created free will, which allows one the choice of opposing God, therefore "creating" sin, or at least the option of sin.

The Devil didn't create sin in essence, he was just the first one to really act upon it.

Think of it this way, God didn't create sin. God created free will, which allows one the option to sin.

At 8/23/2013 2:46:54 AM, SitaraPorDios wrote:I have been a Christian for years, and what do I get? God aweful misery, pun intended. What the Hades is my darn blessing? Do not give me that "we all deserve Hell" crap.

The greatest commandment is to love your God with all your heart, soul and mind. Those who can do this may enter the Kingdom of God. Oops, but here's the catch, for as long as you sin, even once, you have failed this commandment. We all deserve to go to Hell. Why? Heaven is a place for the perfect, an eternally great reward for those who have achieved eternal greatness. Those who have achieved eternal greatness are the ones who never sinned and fully relied on God. So in conclusion, no one who has ever sinned is worthy of Heaven. Only God makes us worthy through his great mercy.

I did not choose to be a sinner.

Yes you did. All sin you have committed is sin of your own free will. Sin didn't just "pop up" into existence with Adam and Eve. The choice to sin was always there, they were just the first ones to do it.

God inflicted that on me because He has a beef with Adam and Eve.

Nope. Look at answer above.

I call shanagans on God for oh so many things. I love with my whole heart, but receive only emotional Hell in return.

You don't rely on him enough. You oppose him too much in thought to truly love him with your whole heart. If you really choose to open yourself up, and accept that you need Him to live a good life and enter Heaven, he will help you.

Prayer has become a chance to tell god to eff off. If this makes me a s****y person, so the eff what.

Definitely doesn't sound like you love him with your whole heart right here, now does it? Who do you think knows better, an ignorant sinful human, or God? Don't act as if you are above him, for he is above all things.

I am tired of trying and acheiving nothing.

I'm sure that's not true. It's most likely a lot of bullsh*t you've taken from being emotionally abused.

I have nothing, I am nothing, I feel nothing but horrible depression.

Come to God in fullness, and he will help you. Do not reject him in any way. Again, what you just said about "having nothing and being nothing" is just a bunch of bullsh*t you think due to being emotionally abused.

At 8/23/2013 2:46:54 AM, SitaraPorDios wrote:I have been a Christian for years, and what do I get? God aweful misery, pun intended. What the Hades is my darn blessing? Do not give me that "we all deserve Hell" crap.

The greatest commandment is to love your God with all your heart, soul and mind. Those who can do this may enter the Kingdom of God. Oops, but here's the catch, for as long as you sin, even once, you have failed this commandment. We all deserve to go to Hell. Why? Heaven is a place for the perfect, an eternally great reward for those who have achieved eternal greatness. Those who have achieved eternal greatness are the ones who never sinned and fully relied on God. So in conclusion, no one who has ever sinned is worthy of Heaven. Only God makes us worthy through his great mercy.

I did not choose to be a sinner.

Yes you did. All sin you have committed is sin of your own free will. Sin didn't just "pop up" into existence with Adam and Eve. The choice to sin was always there, they were just the first ones to do it.

God inflicted that on me because He has a beef with Adam and Eve.

Nope. Look at answer above.

I call shanagans on God for oh so many things. I love with my whole heart, but receive only emotional Hell in return.

You don't rely on him enough. You oppose him too much in thought to truly love him with your whole heart. If you really choose to open yourself up, and accept that you need Him to live a good life and enter Heaven, he will help you.

Prayer has become a chance to tell god to eff off. If this makes me a s****y person, so the eff what.

Definitely doesn't sound like you love him with your whole heart right here, now does it? Who do you think knows better, an ignorant sinful human, or God? Don't act as if you are above him, for he is above all things.

I am tired of trying and acheiving nothing.

I'm sure that's not true. It's most likely a lot of bullsh*t you've taken from being emotionally abused.

I have nothing, I am nothing, I feel nothing but horrible depression.

Come to God in fullness, and he will help you. Do not reject him in any way. Again, what you just said about "having nothing and being nothing" is just a bunch of bullsh*t you think due to being emotionally abused.

Go ahead, normal people, tell me how crazy I am.

You're not crazy. Just misunderstood.

You are wrong. The sin nature is inflicted on innocent victims because God has a beef with Adam and Eve for something that is HIS fault. God created Satan. God put the damn tree in the garden, and no I did not choose to have a sin nature. What happened to "children shall not be put to death for their fathers"? Oh right, that works when it fits YOUR agenda.

God did not create sin, nor did he make humans with a sinful nature

God created Lucifer, and Angel of good. Like all Angels, Lucifer was made with his own free will. Lucifer opposed God (Thus creating the first sin, in a supernatural sense) and God cast him out of Heaven. This was done for other Angels too; now they are known as demons.

Lucifer, now known as Satan, brought sin into the world. He is the one who tempts others into sinning. Now being punished eternally for opposing God, he wants others to oppose him also, for his hatred for God is the greatest among all.

God created humans with free will. The choice to sin has always existed, but now a new factor has come in. The temptation to sin. This was brought on by Satan, who tempted Adam and Even to sin in the garden.

God had nothing against Adam and Eve. After all, it was he who gave them the Garden of Eden, which is closely compared to Heaven on Earth. God told them that for as long as they obeyed, loved, and followed them he would allow them to have the great rewards God has to offer.

Satan comes in and tempts them into sin. Adam and Even fall into sin. They broke their promise to God, therefore God being the just God that he is, punished them by taking away the great things he had given them.

The nature of sin, is something that has always been a choice due to God's gift of free will. Satan and his demons are the ones who added in the factor of temptation.

Blame Satan, but never, ever, blame God.

God created Satan. Check mate.

God created Lucifer, and Angel of good. Like all Angels, Lucifer was made with his own free will. Lucifer opposed God (Thus creating the first sin, in a supernatural sense) and God cast him out of Heaven. This was done for other Angels too; now they are known as demons.

Lucifer, now known as Satan, brought sin into the world. He is the one who tempts others into sinning. Now being punished eternally for opposing God, he wants others to oppose him also, for his hatred for God is the greatest among all.

Nothing exists without God, including evil.

This would assume that God directly created sin. This is false, for it is of God's very nature to oppose sin to it's fullest.

God created free will, because he wanted people to love and follow him of their own will. Out of the creation of free will, so did the ability to oppose God.

This is how sin was born. It was an indirect creation of God, for God wanted people to come to him out of their own sense of love, and goodness. God knew that in order for true love, between humans (or angels) and God, sin must come into the world.

However, love, is a powerful thing. SO powerful in fact that God allowed sin into the world, just so true love between him and his servants could exist.

"All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made." - St. John 1:3

If the Devil created sin, then, explain that verse.

i already stated that God indirectly "created" (Very, very heavy quoting on that) sin because he created free will, which allows one the choice of opposing God, therefore "creating" sin, or at least the option of sin.

The Devil didn't create sin in essence, he was just the first one to really act upon it.

Think of it this way, God didn't create sin. God created free will, which allows one the option to sin.

At 8/23/2013 2:46:54 AM, SitaraPorDios wrote:I have been a Christian for years, and what do I get? God aweful misery, pun intended. What the Hades is my darn blessing? Do not give me that "we all deserve Hell" crap.

The greatest commandment is to love your God with all your heart, soul and mind. Those who can do this may enter the Kingdom of God. Oops, but here's the catch, for as long as you sin, even once, you have failed this commandment. We all deserve to go to Hell. Why? Heaven is a place for the perfect, an eternally great reward for those who have achieved eternal greatness. Those who have achieved eternal greatness are the ones who never sinned and fully relied on God. So in conclusion, no one who has ever sinned is worthy of Heaven. Only God makes us worthy through his great mercy.

I did not choose to be a sinner.

Yes you did. All sin you have committed is sin of your own free will. Sin didn't just "pop up" into existence with Adam and Eve. The choice to sin was always there, they were just the first ones to do it.

God inflicted that on me because He has a beef with Adam and Eve.

Nope. Look at answer above.

I call shanagans on God for oh so many things. I love with my whole heart, but receive only emotional Hell in return.

You don't rely on him enough. You oppose him too much in thought to truly love him with your whole heart. If you really choose to open yourself up, and accept that you need Him to live a good life and enter Heaven, he will help you.

Prayer has become a chance to tell god to eff off. If this makes me a s****y person, so the eff what.

Definitely doesn't sound like you love him with your whole heart right here, now does it? Who do you think knows better, an ignorant sinful human, or God? Don't act as if you are above him, for he is above all things.

I am tired of trying and acheiving nothing.

I'm sure that's not true. It's most likely a lot of bullsh*t you've taken from being emotionally abused.

I have nothing, I am nothing, I feel nothing but horrible depression.

Come to God in fullness, and he will help you. Do not reject him in any way. Again, what you just said about "having nothing and being nothing" is just a bunch of bullsh*t you think due to being emotionally abused.

Go ahead, normal people, tell me how crazy I am.

You're not crazy. Just misunderstood.

You are wrong. The sin nature is inflicted on innocent victims because God has a beef with Adam and Eve for something that is HIS fault. God created Satan. God put the damn tree in the garden, and no I did not choose to have a sin nature. What happened to "children shall not be put to death for their fathers"? Oh right, that works when it fits YOUR agenda.

God did not create sin, nor did he make humans with a sinful nature

God created Lucifer, and Angel of good. Like all Angels, Lucifer was made with his own free will. Lucifer opposed God (Thus creating the first sin, in a supernatural sense) and God cast him out of Heaven. This was done for other Angels too; now they are known as demons.

Lucifer, now known as Satan, brought sin into the world. He is the one who tempts others into sinning. Now being punished eternally for opposing God, he wants others to oppose him also, for his hatred for God is the greatest among all.

God created humans with free will. The choice to sin has always existed, but now a new factor has come in. The temptation to sin. This was brought on by Satan, who tempted Adam and Even to sin in the garden.

God had nothing against Adam and Eve. After all, it was he who gave them the Garden of Eden, which is closely compared to Heaven on Earth. God told them that for as long as they obeyed, loved, and followed them he would allow them to have the great rewards God has to offer.

Satan comes in and tempts them into sin. Adam and Even fall into sin. They broke their promise to God, therefore God being the just God that he is, punished them by taking away the great things he had given them.

The nature of sin, is something that has always been a choice due to God's gift of free will. Satan and his demons are the ones who added in the factor of temptation.

Blame Satan, but never, ever, blame God.

God created Satan. Check mate.

God created Lucifer, and Angel of good. Like all Angels, Lucifer was made with his own free will. Lucifer opposed God (Thus creating the first sin, in a supernatural sense) and God cast him out of Heaven. This was done for other Angels too; now they are known as demons.

Lucifer, now known as Satan, brought sin into the world. He is the one who tempts others into sinning. Now being punished eternally for opposing God, he wants others to oppose him also, for his hatred for God is the greatest among all.

Nothing exists without God, including evil.

This would assume that God directly created sin. This is false, for it is of God's very nature to oppose sin to it's fullest.

God created free will, because he wanted people to love and follow him of their own will. Out of the creation of free will, so did the ability to oppose God.

This is how sin was born. It was an indirect creation of God, for God wanted people to come to him out of their own sense of love, and goodness. God knew that in order for true love, between humans (or angels) and God, sin must come into the world.

However, love, is a powerful thing. SO powerful in fact that God allowed sin into the world, just so true love between him and his servants could exist.

"All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made." - St. John 1:3

If the Devil created sin, then, explain that verse.

i already stated that God indirectly "created" (Very, very heavy quoting on that) sin because he created free will, which allows one the choice of opposing God, therefore "creating" sin, or at least the option of sin.

The Devil didn't create sin in essence, he was just the first one to really act upon it.

Think of it this way, God didn't create sin. God created free will, which allows one the option to sin.

How can you choose something that doesn't exist?

Obviously Sin does exist, or else someone wouldn't be able to do it. Duh.

The best answers I could give are some (I think) relevant quotes. I don't know; I'm not a pastor. I do know I wouldn't bother with "Job-comforter like" responses if I were you.

"A few years back I was at a talk by Marilyn McCord Adams that focused on her reading of the Book of Job. One of her main conclusions, as I recall, had to do with the "friends" of Job who sought pat justifications for the horrors Job endured--who sought to immunize God from critique through acts of victim-blaming and analogous moves. If you read Job with any care at all, the message is that God strongly denounces these "theodicies." His approval, instead, falls on Job.

We might be tempted to say that the character of God in the poem approves of Job DESPITE the fact that Job, in effect, shook his fist at God and shouted out "Why, God? Why?" But part of Adams' argument was that this approval comes BECAUSE of Job's honest expression of how he was feeling, not in spite of it. Adams' idea is that, in the face of horrors, Job approaches God in the manner that presupposed a relationship of love and trust, as opposed to a relationship defined by the appeasement of power.

When we feel as if we have been wronged by a tyrant, we keep our mouths shut or, even, make up excuses for the tyrant so that he won't have reason to turn his capricious wrath against us. It was Job alone who responded to his plight as if God were a beloved friend who had apparently wronged him, as opposed to a tyrant from whom one can expect no better (but whom one had better strive to appease by blaming others).

This is a surprising moral to draw from the story of Job, given how much of God's speech at the end is about the gap in power and wisdom and greatness between Job and God. But I think it may be the right one. If so, it isn't a story that is supposed to offer a theodicy, but rather one that advocates a certain way of responding to God in the face of horrors--not by seeking to justify God's permitting them, but by honestly crying out our anguish, perplexity, and even outrage.

So how does this relate to your post? Job's "friends" were prepared to set aside their compassion, their moral intuitions, their instincts about right and wrong, in order to "justify" God's allowing horror. Job, by contrast, held firm to his own sense of right and wrong, even if it meant he could make no sense of God's behavior. If Adams is right, the message of Job is that the latter is to be preferred. Those who try to reconcile Landina's horrific death with God's sovereign goodness by invoking victim-blaming stories or lifting God above morality are being like Job's friends. If we are to be like Job, we shouldn't try to justify or whitewash Landina's fate, but should instead turn our gaze towards heaven and cry out, "How could you?!""

"After experiencing loss and physical affliction Job is visited by three friends--Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar--who, after sitting with Job for seven days, try to speak words of comfort to him.

These friends are largely unsuccessful in this task. Job eventually calls them "sorry comforters" (16.2) and God eventually condemns their words.

Why did the words of Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar go so wrong?

Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar largely engage Job in a theological debate. Perhaps nothing more needs to be said. Is theological debate of any help to those who are suffering? Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar should have continued to sit with Job, silently and in solidarity with him. The minute they open their mouths things start to go wrong.

But what makes it worse is the particular theology the friends try to force upon Job. As noted in yesterday's post, Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar believe in the theology of retribution, that God rewards the faithful and punishes the wicked. And given that Job is suffering Job must be wicked. So the friends set about trying to convince Job of his wickedness beseeching him to confess and repent so as to return to God's favor.

Basically, the friends try to blame Job for his suffering. It's all Job's fault. He's brought this upon himself.

No wonder Job calls them "sorry comforters." With friends like these who needs enemies?

How did Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar end up saying such cold, unsympathetic and brutal things? Why are they blaming the victim?

What went wrong?

What went wrong, according to Guti"rrez, is that Job's friends put theology before human experience. The friends begin with an abstract, intellectual theological system--the system of retribution in this instance, but any system is the point here--and then apply that system to human experience. The friends are trying to do theological algebra with human suffering. And this leads to cold, unfeeling, and inhuman words coming from the mouths of Job's friends. Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar suffer from what I've called orthodox alexithymia.

In contrast to the theological method of his friends, Job begins with and stays true to his experience. Human suffering is primary and regulates the quality of theological reflection. And by staying true to his experience--by privileging his suffering--Job is revealed to be the only one who speaks truthfully about God.

Guti"rrez writes:The speeches of Eliphaz and his companions take certain doctrinal principles as their starting place and try to apply them to Job's case...These men are competent, even if mistaken, theologians; they are convinced of their teaching but they are unaware that it has nothing to say to suffering human beings...

[By contrast] Job likewise feels sure, not of a doctrine but of his own experience of life...There is something out of kilter in the doctrine being expounded to him.

Job is trying to understand how God is just to one who is suffering; he therefore refuses to don the straitjacket of the theology set before him...Over against the abstract theology of his friends he sets his own experience (and, as we shall see later on, the experience of others, especially the poor)...[Job] refuses to believe that the love his Lord has for him must necessarily follow the course outlined in the teaching that his friends have been setting before him with such arrogant assurance, perhaps because they are afraid of being left defenseless in the face of life if this teaching should collapse.The ineffectual nature of theology in dealing with suffering is powerfully articulated by Job:Job 16.2-6"I have heard many things like these;you are miserable comforters, all of you!Will your long-winded speeches never end?What ails you that you keep on arguing?I also could speak like you,if you were in my place;I could make fine speeches against youand shake my head at you.But my mouth would encourage you;comfort from my lips would bring you relief.

Yet if I speak, my pain is not relieved;and if I refrain, it does not go away."This is, perhaps, the most poignant and powerful statement about the limits of theology in the face of pain: "If I speak, my pain is not relieved; and if I refrain, it does not go away."

Will our long-winded speeches never come to an end?

And what ails us that we keep on arguing?

Guti"rrez concludes:Job's words are a criticism of every theology that lacks human compassion and contact with reality; the one-directional movement from theological principles to life really goes nowhere...Instead of speaking ill of the God in whom he believes, [Job] challenges the foundations of the prevailing theology...[Job] is convinced that the theological method of his friends leads nowhere but to contempt for human beings and thus to a distorted understanding of God."Job's words are a criticism of every theology that lacks human compassion."

At 8/23/2013 2:46:54 AM, SitaraPorDios wrote:I have been a Christian for years, and what do I get? God aweful misery, pun intended. What the Hades is my darn blessing? Do not give me that "we all deserve Hell" crap.

The greatest commandment is to love your God with all your heart, soul and mind. Those who can do this may enter the Kingdom of God. Oops, but here's the catch, for as long as you sin, even once, you have failed this commandment. We all deserve to go to Hell. Why? Heaven is a place for the perfect, an eternally great reward for those who have achieved eternal greatness. Those who have achieved eternal greatness are the ones who never sinned and fully relied on God. So in conclusion, no one who has ever sinned is worthy of Heaven. Only God makes us worthy through his great mercy.

I did not choose to be a sinner.

Yes you did. All sin you have committed is sin of your own free will. Sin didn't just "pop up" into existence with Adam and Eve. The choice to sin was always there, they were just the first ones to do it.

God inflicted that on me because He has a beef with Adam and Eve.

Nope. Look at answer above.

I call shanagans on God for oh so many things. I love with my whole heart, but receive only emotional Hell in return.

You don't rely on him enough. You oppose him too much in thought to truly love him with your whole heart. If you really choose to open yourself up, and accept that you need Him to live a good life and enter Heaven, he will help you.

Prayer has become a chance to tell god to eff off. If this makes me a s****y person, so the eff what.

Definitely doesn't sound like you love him with your whole heart right here, now does it? Who do you think knows better, an ignorant sinful human, or God? Don't act as if you are above him, for he is above all things.

I am tired of trying and acheiving nothing.

I'm sure that's not true. It's most likely a lot of bullsh*t you've taken from being emotionally abused.

I have nothing, I am nothing, I feel nothing but horrible depression.

Come to God in fullness, and he will help you. Do not reject him in any way. Again, what you just said about "having nothing and being nothing" is just a bunch of bullsh*t you think due to being emotionally abused.

Go ahead, normal people, tell me how crazy I am.

You're not crazy. Just misunderstood.

You are wrong. The sin nature is inflicted on innocent victims because God has a beef with Adam and Eve for something that is HIS fault. God created Satan. God put the damn tree in the garden, and no I did not choose to have a sin nature. What happened to "children shall not be put to death for their fathers"? Oh right, that works when it fits YOUR agenda.

God did not create sin, nor did he make humans with a sinful nature

God created Lucifer, and Angel of good. Like all Angels, Lucifer was made with his own free will. Lucifer opposed God (Thus creating the first sin, in a supernatural sense) and God cast him out of Heaven. This was done for other Angels too; now they are known as demons.

Lucifer, now known as Satan, brought sin into the world. He is the one who tempts others into sinning. Now being punished eternally for opposing God, he wants others to oppose him also, for his hatred for God is the greatest among all.

God created humans with free will. The choice to sin has always existed, but now a new factor has come in. The temptation to sin. This was brought on by Satan, who tempted Adam and Even to sin in the garden.

God had nothing against Adam and Eve. After all, it was he who gave them the Garden of Eden, which is closely compared to Heaven on Earth. God told them that for as long as they obeyed, loved, and followed them he would allow them to have the great rewards God has to offer.

Satan comes in and tempts them into sin. Adam and Even fall into sin. They broke their promise to God, therefore God being the just God that he is, punished them by taking away the great things he had given them.

The nature of sin, is something that has always been a choice due to God's gift of free will. Satan and his demons are the ones who added in the factor of temptation.

Blame Satan, but never, ever, blame God.

God is the cause of sin and evil in the universe, therefore God is responsible for sin and evil.God's creatures do not have free will. Free will is an illusion that attempts to get God off the hook. Free will makes the creature the cause and thus responsible for sin and evil in the universe, and the Creator responsible for nothing.

At 8/23/2013 10:23:37 PM, rjohnson741 wrote:God is the cause of sin and evil in the universe, therefore God is responsible for sin and evil.God's creatures do not have free will. Free will is an illusion that attempts to get God off the hook. Free will makes the creature the cause and thus responsible for sin and evil in the universe, and the Creator responsible for nothing.

God is not responsible for the choice that humans make, just as the parent isn't the murderer when they're child did the murdering. According to your logic, since the parent brought that child into the world, it is the fault of the parent for the choice the child made.

God gave us free will, thus giving us the choice to sin. However, in no way is God responsible for any evil in the world, for it is of the humans own fault that they sin.

God gave us choice, yet you blame him for our choosing, even when God told us about the evils, and how bad they are, and how we should all come to God in love and kindness and good will.

As for your little thing on us having no free will, I will need you to clarify before I can respond. You have given me no reason to believe that we lack any free will.

At 8/23/2013 10:23:37 PM, rjohnson741 wrote:God is the cause of sin and evil in the universe, therefore God is responsible for sin and evil.God's creatures do not have free will. Free will is an illusion that attempts to get God off the hook. Free will makes the creature the cause and thus responsible for sin and evil in the universe, and the Creator responsible for nothing.

God is not responsible for the choice that humans make, just as the parent isn't the murderer when they're child did the murdering. According to your logic, since the parent brought that child into the world, it is the fault of the parent for the choice the child made.

God gave us free will, thus giving us the choice to sin. However, in no way is God responsible for any evil in the world, for it is of the humans own fault that they sin.

God gave us choice, yet you blame him for our choosing, even when God told us about the evils, and how bad they are, and how we should all come to God in love and kindness and good will.

As for your little thing on us having no free will, I will need you to clarify before I can respond. You have given me no reason to believe that we lack any free will.

So where do you natural evils come from? Disease, catastrophic disasters (like the tsunami that killed hundreds of thousands), animal predation, and the like? We have no reason to believe those resulted from the consequences of free choices

At 8/23/2013 10:23:37 PM, rjohnson741 wrote:God is the cause of sin and evil in the universe, therefore God is responsible for sin and evil.God's creatures do not have free will. Free will is an illusion that attempts to get God off the hook. Free will makes the creature the cause and thus responsible for sin and evil in the universe, and the Creator responsible for nothing.

God is not responsible for the choice that humans make, just as the parent isn't the murderer when they're child did the murdering. According to your logic, since the parent brought that child into the world, it is the fault of the parent for the choice the child made.

God gave us free will, thus giving us the choice to sin. However, in no way is God responsible for any evil in the world, for it is of the humans own fault that they sin.

God gave us choice, yet you blame him for our choosing, even when God told us about the evils, and how bad they are, and how we should all come to God in love and kindness and good will.

As for your little thing on us having no free will, I will need you to clarify before I can respond. You have given me no reason to believe that we lack any free will.

Have you ever asked yourself, when you hear of a massacre or something horrible on the news, why did he/she do that? What answer does your religion give you? See, saying that we have freewill shouldn't satisfy you as a meaningful explanation of negative human behavior. Yes X chose to do Y, but WHY did he choose it? If your answer is that he didn't know any better, then that isn't his fault. If you answer is that he chose it because of his nature (aka he is a bad person), then doesn't the blame then cycle back to God for making a creature that would voluntarily choose such a thing?

"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault

Obviously Sin does exist, or else someone wouldn't be able to do it. Duh.

Yes. So, it had to exist in order for the Devil to choose it.

Indeed. God gave his Angels free will. Satan was an Angel.

So, if sin existed for the Devil to choose it, then, God created it.

Yes, I have already established that God indirectly created sin by creating free will, since free will gives us the option to oppose God, which is sin.

Are you trying to get to something here because I feel like i have just repeated myself consecutively like four times.

God didn't indirectly create anything; God directly created all things, from the ability to choose to the choice, itself. The choice is not divorced from the very mechanism that makes the choice, and God created this mechanism and, therefore, the choices it would make.

At 8/23/2013 10:23:37 PM, rjohnson741 wrote:God is the cause of sin and evil in the universe, therefore God is responsible for sin and evil.God's creatures do not have free will. Free will is an illusion that attempts to get God off the hook. Free will makes the creature the cause and thus responsible for sin and evil in the universe, and the Creator responsible for nothing.

God is not responsible for the choice that humans make, just as the parent isn't the murderer when they're child did the murdering. According to your logic, since the parent brought that child into the world, it is the fault of the parent for the choice the child made.

God gave us free will, thus giving us the choice to sin. However, in no way is God responsible for any evil in the world, for it is of the humans own fault that they sin.

God gave us choice, yet you blame him for our choosing, even when God told us about the evils, and how bad they are, and how we should all come to God in love and kindness and good will.

As for your little thing on us having no free will, I will need you to clarify before I can respond. You have given me no reason to believe that we lack any free will.

So where do you natural evils come from? Disease, catastrophic disasters (like the tsunami that killed hundreds of thousands), animal predation, and the like? We have no reason to believe those resulted from the consequences of free choices

lol those are evils? religion is a funny thing ... especially the vocabulary of evil and good, which, no matter how embedded in theistic "academese" still reminds me of the simplistic, dichotomous base of most action cartoon plots.

"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault

At 8/23/2013 2:46:54 AM, SitaraPorDios wrote:I have been a Christian for years, and what do I get? God aweful misery, pun intended. What the Hades is my darn blessing? Do not give me that "we all deserve Hell" crap. I did not choose to be a sinner. God inflicted that on me because He has a beef with Adam and Eve. I call shanagans on God for oh so many things. I love with my whole heart, but receive only emotional Hell in return. Prayer has become a chance to tell god to eff off. If this makes me a s****y person, so the eff what. I am tired of trying and acheiving nothing. I have nothing, I am nothing, I feel nothing but horrible depression. Go ahead, normal people, tell me how crazy I am.

Sounds pretty normal for people around here.

But if you could elaborate on the 'emotional hell' part then that might put this whole thing into a better perspective

Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."