As I said to someone else, maybe your iPhone 4 is a lemon and should be changed out. The problem with the hysteria is genuine problem phones are being drowned out by the fuss about good ones being used in poor signal areas that think they are in a good area due to the false bars. I am not doubting you at all.

Apple won't replace ip4's with this issue. Luckily Vodafone will though, so when they get new stock in I'll have a new one to try out. Because I went to them within the 7 day timeframe for ending your contract with no fees, they have also said that if that ip4 has the same issues I can still drop out of my contract as if I was still in the 7 day window. I will keep the phone though even if it has the same issues because it's otherwise a fantastic device.

"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.

Apple won't replace ip4's with this issue. Luckily Vodafone will though, so when they get new stock in I'll have a new one to try out. Because I went to them within the 7 day timeframe for ending your contract with no fees, they have also said that if that ip4 has the same issues I can still drop out of my contract as if I was still in the 7 day window. I will keep the phone though even if it has the same issues because it's otherwise a fantastic device.

The problem for the people with a real and major problem is they may be being ignored as it is so hard to separate them out from the hysteria. I truly believe there are ip4s which don't work properly, few, but they must exist. I had the original iPhone and it was unable to make a call inside my house but could outside, I got an exchange over night from Apple no questions and the new one worked perfectly. I didn't have millions of Apple haters clogging the media claiming no iPhones worked properly to contend with back then of course.

From Apple ][ - to new Mac Pro I've owned them all.Long on AAPL so biased"Google doesn't sell you anything, Google just sells you!"

As I said to someone else, maybe your iPhone 4 is a lemon and should be changed out. The problem with the hysteria is genuine problem phones are being drowned out by the fuss about good ones being used in poor signal areas that think they are in a good area due to the false bars. I am not doubting you at all.

Sorry, I should have mentioned that this is my SECOND iPhone 4! Apple already changed out my first one after my first one completely lost service when I held it normally. What, am I just unlucky? Seriously, pull your head out of the sand.

Hey digitalclips, read this and try to understand it: when I hold my iPhone 4 in my left hand, after ten seconds the signal display drops from 5 bars to "No Service" AND I completely lose signal. No voice, no data, nada. When I hold my iPhone 3G or my wife's original iPhone in the same manner, I drop at most 1 bar, and I can continue to use either phone normally. I've done this test a number of times now, in different locations. So can you please stop with the "all phones do that" lie. It's verifiably not true! Repeating it ad nauseum is not going to make it any truer.

Repeating your theory ad nauseum won't make it any truer either.

1. The iPhone 3G's antenna is in a different location, so the same "death grip" won't have the same effect.

2. All phones DO have some form of signal degradation. Every phone I've owned from Nokias to Sony Ericssons have a quiet little note in the manual saying 'avoid touching the phone in this area because that's where the aerial is.' Yes, the iPhones' signal degradation seems to be worse than other phones, but part of the reason why it seems worse to John Q public is because the signal strength reading was too optimistic in the first place. Your phone isn't dropping from 5 bars to none, it's dropping from maybe 1 or 2 bars, it's just reporting the strength wrong.

3. The fact that so many people have differing opinions means this issue might not be as true as you think. I've only noticed reception issues when deliberately holding the phone in an unnatural and uncomfortable position, and I've never had a call drop of data disappear other than in known areas of crap signal, and even then it holds on much better than my 3G did. Oh yes, and I'm left-handed and use the phone in my left hand.

Try thinking of an analogy ... if your car was telling you you had 100 more miles to go on a tank before you needed gas and you kept running out would you feel the car had a problem or the reading? When the manufacturer fixed it showing you now get 100 miles less from a tank full would you feel you had a bad car now?

And that is exactly what Apple is fixing here; the actual reporting of signal strength. But, in your analogy, if it was not uncommon for some drivers to reproduce a problem where when they pressed the gas not only did the fuel gage show a sudden drop, but the gas tank actually emptied itself. In that case, the fuel gage might be faulty, but there is still no gas in the tank. The iOS might be misreporting the signal strength, but the iPhone 4 design still seems to lead to greater actual signal loss than designs with an internal antenna.

Admitting to the accuracy problem is good. Failing to address or acknowledge the actual physical problems caused by the physical design is not.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro.

The problem here is the return window is going to close before Apple admits the antenna problem lat alone comes up with a solution that might or might not help. We're over a week in and they've still not admitted the real issue exists.

"Our formula, in many instances, mistakenly displays 2 more bars than it should for a given signal strength," Apple's letter reads. "For example, we sometimes display 4 bars when we should be displaying as few as 2 bars. Users observing a drop of several bars when they grip their iPhone in a certain way are most likely in an area with very weak signal strength, but they don't know it because we are erroneously displaying 4 or 5 bars."

I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.

AND/OR

Statistics are like a drunk with a lampost: used more for support than illumination.

I'm with you. I don't see how this, in any way, addresses the issues. I don't own an iPhone 4 (I'm waiting for the problems to be fixed). But I went to an AT&T store yesterday and could reliably reproduce the problem without "tightly gripping" it. I only needed to bridge the two antennae with one finger. That was enough to drop to no signal after a few seconds. I could make it happen faster if I cupped it in my hand. ... .

Apple made it clear that the iPhone4 behaves as any other phone with regard to reduced signal strength when handled in a normal way.
When handled abnormally as you describe (wow it must be really inconvenient to call like this) everything is possible; try calling under water for example.

What inadequate signal strength are you referring to? Anand's tests (and Apple's tests, although you'll probably ignore those) show that the iPHone 4 has GREATER sensitivity than other phones, not less.

...and Anand's report also shows it suffers from GREATER actual signal loss when 'held wrong'. It's only fair not to cherry pick from the analysis. More honest that way.

It is a much better antenna than previous models. It is also more susceptible to signal loss. Thankfully, it is so much better an antenna, that even with lower signal strength, it results in better call quality. But, that doesn't change the fact that it's design can result in greater signal loss and so result in dropped calls and loss of signal.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro.

2. All phones DO have some form of signal degradation. Every phone I've owned from Nokias to Sony Ericssons have a quiet little note in the manual saying 'avoid touching the phone in this area because that's where the aerial is.' Yes, the iPhones' signal degradation seems to be worse than other phones, but part of the reason why it seems worse to John Q public is because the signal strength reading was too optimistic in the first place. Your phone isn't dropping from 5 bars to none, it's dropping from maybe 1 or 2 bars, it's just reporting the strength wrong.

but part of the reason why it is worse to John Q public is because the iPhone 4 is the only one with a totally exposed external antenna.

Sorry, I should have mentioned that this is my SECOND iPhone 4! Apple already changed out my first one after my first one completely lost service when I held it normally. What, am I just unlucky? Seriously, pull your head out of the sand.

Then logic dictates you need to move to a stronger reception area ... your bars are currently showing an incorrect level according to all reports I read. The ability to block a signal can only occur if the signal is below a certain strength. Either that or be thankful for the extra sensitivity it has and use a bumper or hold it differently.

From Apple ][ - to new Mac Pro I've owned them all.Long on AAPL so biased"Google doesn't sell you anything, Google just sells you!"

The problem here is the return window is going to close before Apple admits the antenna problem lat alone comes up with a solution that might or might not help. We're over a week in and they've still not admitted the real issue exists.

but part of the reason why it is worse to John Q public is because the iPhone 4 is the only one with a totally exposed external antenna.

Fixed that for ya. This is basic engineering.

Which by all accounts actually gives it greater sensitivity. If you don't want to take advantage of that then you need to accept the blocking. Frankly if I were told, you can actually get a signal where you otherwise couldn't BUT you have to hold it funny, I would. I used to have to drive 15 miles to get a signal in the New Hampshire mountains when we went there each summer, so changing the grip in a weak signal area seems a breeze! ( BTW, that was pre iPhone and I had some other carrier I forget now at the time)

From Apple ][ - to new Mac Pro I've owned them all.Long on AAPL so biased"Google doesn't sell you anything, Google just sells you!"

Nop, the measurement was calibrated with the bars shown on the iPhone4. The problem is that according to Apple (and I'am sure they are sure) the bars shown where wrong. And there goes your calibration.
Maybe someone should sue Anand for such 'ignorant' measurements and presenting results that are wrong. They should have used the actual signal strength shown in db's on the iPhone but that wasn't possible in the short time frame.

Excellent work of Apple to find the cause of the problem this fast, between a bombardment of confusing and conflicting information. This is really difficult to do.

J.

No, Anand used the actual signal strength reported by the iPhone NOT the bars. The bars, as admitted by Apple, use a flawed algorithm to display the actual signal strength. But the signal strength itself can be accurately reported numerically, which is what Anand did.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro.

OK I just visited the ATT store yesterday. Indicated 5 bars there and I had no problem w downloading 3g webpages. Left store, went 50 yards away (no buildings or obstructions anywhere around and same 5 bars indicated) and- download stopped cold while touching bottom left antenna (decreased to 2 bars shown). Downloading resumed immediately after lifting finger. Duplicated again to verify results. So -- you tell me this is a software fix? Don't believe it.

Sorry, I should have mentioned that this is my SECOND iPhone 4! Apple already changed out my first one after my first one completely lost service when I held it normally. What, am I just unlucky? Seriously, pull your head out of the sand.

Presmabley you were able to get the replacement befoe Mon/Tues of this week as they now aren't giving anyone replacements for this issue. I think what happened to you is likely to happen to me too, but I'm going to get a replacement just in case it does actually improve it.

"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.

And that is exactly what Apple is fixing here; the actual reporting of signal strength. But, in your analogy, if it was not uncommon for some drivers to reproduce a problem where when they pressed the gas not only did the fuel gage show a sudden drop, but the gas tank actually emptied itself. In that case, the fuel gage might be faulty, but there is still no gas in the tank. The iOS might be misreporting the signal strength, but the iPhone 4 design still seems to lead to greater actual signal loss than designs with an internal antenna.

Admitting to the accuracy problem is good. Failing to address or acknowledge the actual physical problems caused by the physical design is not.

The main issue here is the drop from 5 bars to zero. If it was a drop from 2 or 1 bar to zero then you won't be hearing anyone complaining because it is expected and no one would have noticed it. I have been using GSM phones for the last 15 years abroad and in the US and it is normal for a phone to drop 1 or 2 bars when you hold it in your hand.

No, Anand used the actual signal strength reported by the iPhone NOT the bars. The bars, as admitted by Apple, use a flawed algorithm to display the actual signal strength. But the signal strength itself can be accurately reported numerically, which is what Anand did.

At the end of the day, Anand confirmed what Apple said - that the iPhone's reception was better than other phones. Yes, you might be able to improve it a little more by adding a case if you wish, but even without the case, it's well above industry standards. So what's the complaint?

Yes, you are correct. Anand did confirm what Apple has released. That the antenna is far superior to previous models and that the bars algorithm was flawed. But he also confirm that the industrial design, of exposing the antennas, resulted in greater actual loss of signal when touched. That is the issue that Apple has not addressed.

Engineering is always about trade offs. Bringing the antennas to the exterior make them far more sensitive, and so better, than internal antennas. That is a fact. It also makes them more prone to signal degradation when in physical contact with the human body. That is also a fact. having two separate antennas that are exposed and able to be bridged by human contact can cause further signal degradation. Another fact.

I am not bashing Apple for the design. They decided on better overall reception and sensitivity by moving it to the outside. But, as Anand said, a simple coating would have greatly minimized the effects of contacting the antennas. Failing to coat it seems to be a bad idea. Not admitting that there is an actual issue of signal degradation when touching the 4 (greater than previous models) makes it look like the are willfully omitting this fact or that their testing hasn't show it (which of course is unbelievable, given the could just read Anand's write up).

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro.

But I found a way. Undeterred by the lack of field test on iOS 4, I was determined to enable numeric signal strength reporting in the top left where bars are normally displayed. If you've ever run a jailbroken iPhone and used SBSettings, or changed your carrier string, you've probably encountered the fact that iTunes will back up and restore the status bar configuration across OS restores. See where I'm going?

I took my iPhone 3GS, downgraded to 3.1.3, jailbroke, enabled numeric WiFi and GSM and backed up. I then took my iPhone 4 and restored with iOS 4, but pointed it to the backup of the jailbroken, numeric-GSM-reporting iPhone 3GS. You'll note that booting and activating the new phone required fitting the new iPhone 4 microSIM into a SIM carrier. I ordered one almost a month ago, but it still hasn't shown up.

My MicroSIM -> SIM adapter. The real one is still inexplicably in the mail 15 business days later.

Success ensued, and I had a numeric readout of signal strength on a non jailbroken iPhone 4. The results are interesting.

Apple says Upon investigation, we were stunned to find that the formula we use to calculate how many bars of signal strength to display is totally wrong.

Tom says Upon investigation, I was stunned to find that the formula Apple uses to calculate how many idiots they think are out here is totally wrong.

Fixing the display so that bars indicate a false signal strength does not fix the dropped calls nor the poor call quality. Software cannot fix or compensate for a bad hardware design. You can tell me that AT&T is providing me poor signal quality (which is true fact) but the real fact is if I make a call while showing 4-5 bars and not holding the phone, I can talk uninterrupted & with complete clarity for an entire 20 minute conversation. Without moving from my location, but by holding the phone, the display shows a flatlined signal. I cannot connect many calls, I drop connected calls, and/or the entire conversation is broken up. Changing the display WILL NOT fix that problem. Listen to a portable radio with an external antenna and grab the antenna. The signal is interrupted by grounding the metal antenna and the radio produces poor sound or just static. The problem exists. Period.

While in my office or house (which, btw, has ALWAYS showed 4 bars on my 3GS in both locations and made calls with clarity and never dropped them in either location) the iPhone 4 shows 4 bars as well. The calls are successful AS LONG AS I AM NOT HOLDING THE PHONE.

Apple seems to think that they again are going to pull the wool over our eyes. Steve Jobs needs to man-up, take responsibility for this mistake, step up to the plate and FIX THE PROBLEM. This got past Quality Control. I am not happy about it but it happens. What I am pissed off about is that they are denying it and are looking to make it a casual issue by appeasing the masses with yet another mistake, hoping that the people will be gullible enough to accept it. Cmon Apple, I have become a loyal fan in the past year, switching from a PC to a Mac and from a Palm Treo to an iPhone. Dont treat me like Im an idiot. That I wont tolerate.

I am mad at myself for two things. 1) I know that holding an antenna without insulating myself from grounding it will produce poor signal. I grew up in a time when cars had aerials and we all had transistor radios with retractable antennas that you didnt touch when you were listening to them. Why that didnt cross my mind, Ill never know. 2) Selling my 3GS prematurely. I would gladly take my new iPhone 4 back to AT&T, cancel the new two year contract, and reactivate my (virtually flawless) 3GS. I would have to eat the $$ I spent on protection gear for my iPhone 4 but it would worth it. It would it also serve to re-teach me a lesson that I already knewNEVER buy a new product the moment it hits the market.

I'm with you. I don't see how this, in any way, addresses the issues. I don't own an iPhone 4 (I'm waiting for the problems to be fixed). But I went to an AT&T store yesterday and could reliably reproduce the problem without "tightly gripping" it. I only needed to bridge the two antennae with one finger. That was enough to drop to no signal after a few seconds. I could make it happen faster if I cupped it in my hand.

The only thing I can think of is that there is actually a fix in this release, but that Apple can't state so publicly because if they did that would be admitting guilt and wouldn't be good for the pending litigation. But mostly this is a just a BS response that doesn't do anything to fix the issue.

And that's the key... it only takes one finger to cause the problem. The attenuation excuse Apple is using is dependent on your hand wrapping around the antenna and blocking the signal. One finger would not have that effect. If that's truly all it takes, it is almost certainly a serious design flaw in exposing the antennas to direct physical contact.

If you are dropping calls with an iP4 where you can make calls with a similar ATT phone... then I agree. Your iP4 is a problem, and as we discussed, you should get a refund or replacement.

But some reports have said that the iP4 can make calls where other ATT phones can't.

So, for some, the iP4 is a better phone regardless of how the signal is misreported.

You have a device with a problem. Any logical person respects that!

What I, and many regulars here, do not respect is the posters who claim the sky is falling and do not even own an iPhone,

Usually, you can recognize these people because they recently (to the particular thread or Apple event) joined AI; all their messages are negative; and they will not participate in a reasonable discussion.

I called a few of these people out on other threads... they have stopped or reduced their posts.

Likely, they have just signed up with another alias so they can continue to spew.

If you have been around these forums for several years, you accept as inevitable that a certain number of posters aren't interested in discussion or problem identification/resolution-- They are interested in spreading disinformation and denigrating Apple.

They came out for the iPad announce, the Flash restriction, the iPhone announce, and now this.

Ask yourself, how many of the posters here are interested in resolving your problem, as opposed to how many are using your problem to further their agenda--which appears to be to spread negative information about Apple (true or not)

Apple has been in business for 34 years-- April 1, 1976. I have watched and dealt with them since June 1978.

Many technology companies have come and gone in those 34 years.

Apple has thrived!

Why! Simple-- great products and great customer service!

Apple will resolve this issue to your satisfaction, or, likely, they will lose you as a customer--- something they don't take lightly.

In this supercharged (regulatory, legal and political) atmosphere, they must be careful how they handle issues like this.

Fair enough?

.

"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -

Judging by my experience this makes a lot of sense. I get poor reception in my office and my 3G and 3Gs (for the 2 weeks I had it) would hover around 1 or 2 bars all day. I've noticed my 4 fluctuating from 5 to 2 to 4 to 1 while just laying flat on my desk. And even though I'm in a weak area I haven't been able to get it to drop to no service or searching depending on how it's held

Yep same here. In our tea room at work i can't surf the web on my 3G but can no problem on the iP4 (same network and package on both phones by the way). It drops off every now and then but it shows how much better the antenna is.

Now if i didn't have the 3G to reference i'd be complaining to Apple that the iP4's antenna was dodgy wouldn't i.

A reputation is not built upon the restful domain of one's comfort zone; it is made out of stalwart exposition of your core beliefs, for all challenges to disprove them as irrelevant hubris.- Berp...

Upon investigation, we were stunned to find that the formula we use to calculate how many bars of signal strength to display is totally wrong. Our formula, in many instances, mistakenly displays 2 more bars than it should for a given signal strength. For example, we sometimes display 4 bars when we should be displaying as few as 2 bars. Users observing a drop of several bars when they grip their iPhone in a certain way are most likely in an area with very weak signal strength, but they don’t know it because we are erroneously displaying 4 or 5 bars. Their big drop in bars is because their high bars were never real in the first place.

To fix this, we are adopting AT&T’s recently recommended formula for calculating how many bars to display for a given signal strength. The real signal strength remains the same, but the iPhone’s bars will report it far more accurately, providing users a much better indication of the reception they will get in a given area. We are also making bars 1, 2 and 3 a bit taller so they will be easier to see.

We will issue a free software update within a few weeks that incorporates the corrected formula. Since this mistake has been present since the original iPhone, this software update will also be available for the iPhone 3GS and iPhone 3G.

Well F me, AT&T signal strength is shittier than the Iphone has been displaying all along. You don't think you would have figured that out years ago? Its funny how field test mode *3001#12345#* is taken out of IOS4.

Which by all accounts actually gives it greater sensitivity. If you don't want to take advantage of that then you need to accept the blocking. Frankly if I were told, you can actually get a signal where you otherwise couldn't BUT you have to hold it funny, I would. I used to have to drive 15 miles to get a signal in the New Hampshire mountains when we went there each summer, so changing the grip in a weak signal area seems a breeze! ( BTW, that was pre iPhone and I had some other carrier I forget now at the time)

They could still have accomplished this and avoided the problems by putting a non-conductive coating or thin cover over it.

I like Apple, and I actually adore the Iphone, but I seriously hope they get crucified over this.
While there is often some amount of confusion and tiny deceptions permeating the computer industry, this is actually close to full out deception and fraud.

Their response to this issue has actually caused me to rethink future Apple purchases.

The actual problem is not really that bad. You just have to use the new iphone in a case or suffer dropped calls and data in weak signal locations. If Apple had admitted it, sent out a few free Itunes credits or some bumpers, we would have just all moved on.

I bet the next round of Apple job reqs will be PR people.

Crucified. Nice wordage. Oh yeah, they'll be drawn and quartered. I also am re-considering buying an iPhone 4. I thought they would FIX it! Not cover it up!

Time to short AAPL.

Steve Jobs thinks we are all stupid idiots. What a way to thank loyal customers that do more marketing for a company than possibly any other company on earth.

As you said we would have all moved on if they gave out free bumpers that cost a few cents to make. Greed.

As for PR people another poster here RBR made a good point...this probably goes directly to the top to Steve Jobs. He in fact absolutely started this whole thing with his condescending personal email to a user. He will have only himself to blame.

"Overpopulation and climate change are serious shit." Gilsch"I was really curious how they had managed such fine granularity of alienation." addabox

Maybe I'm a little slow or something, but how exactly does this fix the problem that many of are having where when holding the phone, we get dropped speeds and/or dropped calls?

This seems to be ONLY a fix to display the way bars are displayed on the screen. Or am I reading this PR wrong?

I hate to be drawn in on this. But let's assume for a moment that Apple is telling the truth. If the iPhone's calibration/calculation of signal strength gives a false reading, then what the user "sees" as a strong signal is a false reading. That would explain why signal bars drop when the antenna is physically blocked from what little signal it "sees." If the iPhone has a strong signal, the user will not experience the bar drop anomaly. Now, let's assume Apple is lying. Do you really think they want to open up that can of worms for the lawyers? Poor reception causes dropped calls...not a false calibration. There is a silver lining. Because of all the attention given to this perceived issue, Apple discovered a formula error in how signal strength has been calculated for all iPhone models. Of course I could be wrong and Apple is deliberately covering up a design flaw. But that's only wishful thinking for all the Apple haters.

I really don't know what your talking about. The phone everywhere I've been so far will drop out of 3G just by holding it normally in my left hand then go to the slower network and often drop out of that network too. That's fact, and it happens all the time. I will buy a case which I know will help so the problems, fortunately aren't going to be so bad, but that's what happens without one.

As you originally reported,

Quote:

I'm in a non 3G area on Vodafone in Scotland. The reception has been a lot better than it was on my old 3G iPhone on O2, sufficient to stream radio on edge without any difficulties but dropping out completely frequently, when I pick it up.

You also have said,

Quote:

Today I went to an O2 store in a town near me that's gets Edge not 3G and with my Vodafone iPhone 4 tried on 2 cases one plasic and one rubber. At the front of the store I had five bars then holding the phone naturally with no case it dropped to no service, with the case it dropped to 2 bars and no lower. Both cases seemed exactly the same for reception quality. I also tested standing further into the store. Without touching the lower left corner got 2 bars with no case it quickly fell to no service with each case and holding the phone naturally, it fell to no service but took a few seconds longer.

I also tried one of the display iPhone 4's. It was showing 5 bars on o2's 3G. When I held the lower left corner it fairly quickly, 10 seconds fell to 2 bars and stayed there, quickly going back to 5 bars when I took my hand away.

The good news then is that cases make a noticeable difference but in lower reception areas aren't enough to prevent no service.

So it appears that you are showing 3G service where there is none. Or you are close enough for the iPhone 4 to pick it up. Unfortunately, the service is either not strong enough, the iPhone 4 is not powerful enough, or both, to maintain the connection.

It may also be an internal hardware switching problem going from 3G to Edge. I live near a hilly area that the 3G service drops precipitously. When passing through there, I switch 3G off via the General Settings and haven't had a dropped call since.

I would suggest that until Vodafone upgrades to 3G, you will have issues. Check Vodafone's 3G coverage map. You may be in or in close proximity of a fringe area or as any radio wave, it maybe bouncing around and being influenced by geographical, atmospheric or man-made structural factors.