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First, shipping must be well defined. We will define shipping explicitly as it is generally assumed: The canon revelation of mutual attraction between two characters.

What exactly is it meant by Negaishipping having the same chances as Cafemochashipping? Define N as the probability of Negaishipping and M as the probability of Cafemochashipping. You are claiming that M = N. Therefore any values we find for either M or N will respective go to the other unconditionally.

Let's assume the argument that no or none of these two ships are possible, N=M=0. The only problem is that we never know the chances of a ship actually becoming canon. You are not a writer, and therefore you cannot claim a 0% chance on anything.

However, the argument that the probability for the main ships decreases for each passing generation cannot be refuted. So we can assume that it is possible for N < Pe < A < Pk, where the later implied are Pearl, Advance, and Pokeshipping respectively. Your argument would therefore include the possibility of M < Pe < A < Pk.

But now reasoning must be thrown into the mix. Homosexuality is a taboo in a show with an age range of the tween years. By how we have defined shipping, it is a taboo for Ash and Cilan to canonically have mutual attraction. This can mean two things:

M = 0
M = lim_x->0(x), where this means we can assume an infinitesimal probability.

But of course, M = 0 is false by our argument of "We are not the writers", so the infinitesimal chance remains.

Therefore, through your argument, N = lim_x->0(x) as well. However, the possible argument that probabilities of later main ships are decreased brings a mathematical and logical inconstancy. Let A represent the next ship with Ash and the next main girl.

If A were also forced to have the same infinitesimal chance, this would obliterate the assumed argument. Therefore, we cannot assume of any ships involved with that inequality any more, therefore nothing can be assumed of N anymore. Therefore, M = N cannot be proved, therefore cannot be stated.

If A were forced to be zero, this would show that either the generation of A would be the last generation, because the argument cannot have negative variables because they represent probabilities. Or the argument would once again shatter, leaving the same aforementioned conclusion of the stateability of N=M. This assumption would contradict the "Writers" argument in the first place. And by contradiction, N =/= M

In conclusion, N=M cannot be stated, or N=/= M. It is most possible that N > M and M can be assumed infinitesimal.

But in actuality, I understood everything you said. I wouldn't say each new ship with Ash has less chance than the last. Before Negai, I would've agreed, but I think Negai comes before Advance, but after Pokeshipping. But yeah, everything with Ash has a probability of something next to 0. That you can say that homosexual ships are even as closely possible as hetro ships in this children's programme (which is hardly the show that is going to be breaking boundaries, dealing with taboo subjects...haha) pretty much shows how little the writers care about Ash having any sort of romantic interest anymore.

I don't think Ash will end up with anyone by the complete end of the whole series. For him to, he'd have to have a huge personality change, and the writers dislike any permanent character development for him, it seems. It's just about him and Pikachu now. All anyone can do is have fun looking at "hints". Ash is going to live a long and full life - as a 10 year old - with his Pikachu, and no one else.~

The plus for CafeMocha is that it was let out of the box with a bang. Akin to Barry's man-crush on Paul. Or Brock and every romance he tried to start. It's hints can drift to nothing, and all everyone will remember is that he tried to jump across the table to-- *massages temples* Okay, won't get crude.

This is why I generally don't 'ship mainstream; it's much too much of a turn-off when you associate any part of its existence with negativity (I could tell a story about the G-Gundam fandom that impacted a bunch of other fandoms I favored; and you thought your fandoms hated Teh Ghei. Not like that. Never like that.). And it's hard to shake.

I don't ship mainstream much but the only ones that I actually do ship is Advanceshipping and Contestshipping.

Quote originally posted by RubyJB88:

But once the fanfic starts warping into what reality is in the anime, that's where things start to go wrong. Readers look too hardly into it and start believing it may come true.

*pets Bouldershipping* Man's gotta do what a man's gotta do~ Traveling with Ash is like being guaranteed someone with love you with him.

;_; Well, many not for poor Tracey. *not that he doesn't have his own ambitions; Elder vs Apprentice, anyone?*

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I ship if I like. I'm lucky if it's mainstream, because then I get to find more fanart...but a lot of the times, it isn't Pray tell, what happened? XD

Before G-Gundam was shown on Cartoon Network, there was a small community of people (women?) dedicated to it. Purists in any sense of the word. To them, if you didn't 'ship the main couples, you were a target for criticism. If 'shipped gay, you GTFO. If you 'shipped Domon/Allenby, you GTFO. If you 'shipped ANYTHING that wasn't the four main couples (and Chibodee/one of his four girls) you were told you weren't a fan of the show, because you didn't appreciate "the creator's vision." And they dominated the FFN section at the time.

Me, I entered as a Chibodee/George fan. They were the side favorites, and the only two of the five that had any real chemistry as companions beyond We're Awesome Chosen Ones (drinking together in the middle of a battle = usually says something). ...Actually, that's bias (the Kid was in the hero's grill, and the American was too), but the drinking did it anyway.

So being this of the time that FFN was /the/ place to go for fics, naturally, I went there to see if I could find anything. I wasn't surprised to find so little, but I was shocked at the lack of acceptance by the fandom BFNs (if you could call them that). Reading reviews for anything different was like an icepick being jabbed in your stomach. It was so closed off.

My feelings toward the show soured pretty quick, pretty hard. :B And it impacted my like of Zoids and my diehard love of Megaman X. Why? Because G-Gundam was dubbed by the same off-shoot company that dubbed Zoids: Chaotic Century and the later MMX games. How can I love MMX if all I'm being reminded of is stupid Domon Kasshu and the fans loyal to his damn boring existence with the annoying chick?

...I got better, later (btw, Domon is made of memeticism). =X But I think it left the specific community repressed.

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I've noticed something interesting...isn't kinda weird that Wishfulshipping is getting a bit more attention than Negai? Usually the main girl shipping dominates the other ships in the region, but now, the other ships are pretty hefty competitors against them...Yes, Cafémocha included!

It's could because at this stage, the solo 'shippers (as opposed to multies) are spreading themselves thinner with each new girl who shows up. People have started watching in DP and some still find themselves preferring the older companions, once they revisit the episodes they've missed. There are those not jumping 'ship.

Quote originally posted by AdvancedK47:

But now reasoning must be thrown into the mix. Homosexuality is a taboo in a show with an age range of the tween years.

Man, when I watched their farewell scene in the dub, I was so excited when their hands lingered for just a bit longer after their handshake...I was about to put my arms up in jubilation, but I bent back a finger in the process...ouch

I'm more of an Orangeshipper myself :B Misty's gotta be keeping her desires in check somehow.
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Before G-Gundam was shown on Cartoon Network, there was a small community of people (women?) dedicated to it. Purists in any sense of the word. To them, if you didn't 'ship the main couples, you were a target for criticism. If 'shipped gay, you GTFO. If you 'shipped Domon/Allenby, you GTFO. If you 'shipped ANYTHING that wasn't the four main couples (and Chibodee/one of his four girls) you were told you weren't a fan of the show, because you didn't appreciate "the creator's vision." And they dominated the FFN section at the time.

Ew, that sounds awful! Not just because it's blatantly homophobic, it's just so suffocating with such limited shipping selections. The fewer ships there are, the more divided the fandom is. Unless of course, there's only one ship XD

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It's could because at this stage, the solo 'shippers (as opposed to multies) are spreading themselves thinner with each new girl who shows up. People have started watching in DP and some still find themselves preferring the older companions, once they revisit the episodes they've missed. There are those not jumping 'ship.

Okay, don't hate me for this, but I've also noticed a pattern in "shipping groups" and I've come to the conclusion that these groups are made for the sole purpose of driving everyone but Misty away from Ash. How many people do you know ship all of these?

Man, when I watched their farewell scene in the dub, I was so excited when their hands lingered for just a bit longer after their handshake...I was about to put my arms up in jubilation, but I bent back a finger in the process...ouch

I'm more of an Orangeshipper myself :B Misty's gotta be keeping her desires in check somehow.

=O I will have to watch this episode at some point. *is on-off when it comes to the anime* Their hands also lingered some back when they were splitting up in Hoenn/Kanto. *______* It was hand over hand, and Brock's was right over Ash's. And there was lingering.

I'm an accidental Neglectshipper. I didn't find any recurring character that I thought had enough chemistry with her personally impressive. ...I used to be a Todd/Misty shipper, though. I had to keep her clear of Ash for--at the time--Gary.

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Okay, don't hate me for this, but I've also noticed a pattern in "shipping groups" and I've come to the conclusion that these groups are made for the sole purpose of driving everyone but Misty away from Ash. How many people do you know ship all of these?

Which is natural. Ash certainly has more prospects than Misty, and all of Misty's prospects simply aren't threatening enough (Rudy, Danny, Georgio, Tracey) due to plot or divergence (Tracey's been shoved to Daisy and Oak enough that he can also be a Pair the Spare without bending canon backwards).

If you can't multi-ship characters, the next best thing it to clear the road. If it takes a lawnmower, they'll do it.

Immature audiences "can't handle homosexuality" because their parents won't want to deal with having to explain it. Bottom line. If kids are fully equipped to handle the straight, they can certainly handle the gay. It's social stigma that says otherwise.

Advanceshippers have more to fear from Contestshipping than Pokeshipping, honestly. Pearl only has two, really: Penguin and HeatTag. If Conway hadn't been introduced after Kenny, I'd be damn convinced they were trying to make him a love interest....which would have been fascinating. A regular trainer who only interacts with the coordinator in non-Contest situations? It certainly would have been different from May and Drew's subplot. I might have even come to love it!

If you draw enough comparisons to the series itself, a lot of Negaishippers are going to say the relationship between Iris and Ash is a reboot of the one Misty and Ash had.

That said, we don't have a good handle on any of the three Unova 'ships. We won't know what comparisons to really draw until maybe another half year from now.

Man's gotta do what a man's gotta do~

So being this of the time that FFN was /the/ place to go for fics, naturally, I went there to see if I could find anything. I wasn't surprised to find so little, but I was shocked at the lack of acceptance by the fandom BFNs (if you could call them that). Reading reviews for anything different was like an icepick being jabbed in your stomach. It was so closed off.

The more they were showing Dawn and Barry together, the more I was beginning to like that ship. I think they had good chemistry together. Beats Kenny anyday.

…except that Iris isn't bossy around Ash nor does she push him around. We haven't seen that 20 episodes in. But this is way early in the game so it could change.

I don't remember if in Sinnoh it was the same deal. It was already circling with Ash, then as new characters started appearing the ships started on them.

Aw, I'm gonna miss that line! Back in the days when Sinnoh started...

On a sidetone, they need to fix-up that site. Looks outdated. More accurate ratings and organization would help.

Quote originally posted by CommanderPigg:

Nah, the Dawn ships seem to co-exist in relative harmony...except for some reason Pearl and Penguin during Kenny's last episode >_>

Man, when I watched their farewell scene in the dub, I was so excited when their hands lingered for just a bit longer after their handshake...I was about to put my arms up in jubilation, but I bent back a finger in the process...ouch >_>

Misty's gotta be keeping her desires in check somehow.

Well it was Kenny who screwed himself over and his ship. Maybe he'd have a chance if he kept his mouth shut and had some patience.

lol what, they did that like three times now? Why did this farewell feel so much more pronounced with the handshake than the other two? ;)

That makes Misty sound like a --.

I read AK47's entire post as something from a math textbook. Meaning, I was forced to skim over it. -_- No offense, AK, you're a smart guy.

Quote originally posted by Jorah:

I don't think Ash will end up with anyone by the complete end of the whole series. For him to, he'd have to have a huge personality change, and the writers dislike any permanent character development for him, it seems. It's just about him and Pikachu now. All anyone can do is have fun looking at "hints". Ash is going to live a long and full life - as a 10 year old - with his Pikachu, and no one else.~

But once the franchise starts showing signs of weakness (and I predict by 2020) then the writers would be forced to rethink their strategy. I get this feeling with every new series there's this buildup. It will lead to something great that will unify all past adventures and show Ash's transcendence into what he is. Wishful thinking, he grows up in the climax.

Quote originally posted by AshPikastar:

Exactly which makes things go a bit too out of hand sometimes when it comes to wanting something to happen the way you want it.

I still remember the Barry obsession over Paul Man I'm already missing DP.

And the moral of this story is don't read those cheesy, fluffy, Mary Sue/Marty Stu, overblown, disproportional, risque stories otherwise it will mind**** you and you won't be able to think straight for a few years. >_<

I will be missing D/P as well. It was a great series. Barry's one those at the top because he was entertaining all the time. Paul was the rival we should've had in Johto. Conway gets an honorable mention. Did I leave anyone else out besides Dawn's rivals?

O_O Why the heck is math, of all things, involved? Reminds me so much of my probability math lessons, and I don't really like probability.

Don't know if this is discussed before, I found this ship called FlavescentShipping, and it's between Shooti (Trip is such a retarded name so I'm not calling him that) and Iris, apparently. OnO;;;And then I saw that Trip's category is "Ships with Trip", aheheee /shot

And for some reason I'm starting to ship Dento/Iris (WishfulShipping) for some reason. *v* Their fanart is so cuteeeee <3

And the moral of this story is don't read those cheesy, fluffy, Mary Sue/Marty Stu, overblown, disproportional, risque stories otherwise it will mind**** you and you won't be able to think straight for a few years. >_<

I will be missing D/P as well. It was a great series. Barry's one those at the top because he was entertaining all the time. Paul was the rival we should've had in Johto. Conway gets an honorable mention. Did I leave anyone else out besides Dawn's rivals?

Oh yeah my friend had read a fanfic before for Megaman and he was disturb. Oh yeah Barry was/Is my favorite character which is why I'm going to miss him. I don't think you missed anyone else although it feels like you did.

I miss Twinleafshipping; Barry and Dawn had a few good moments on there.

Prove it's not a taboo and prove the writers don't consider a global audience, wilst the implications that the writers do consider globaility are the Multicultural aspects of Generation V and $$$$$. Prove otherwise those two points and we'll talk.

You haven't completely proven the flaw in the logic. And I said the only two possibilities are N and M cannot be compared, or N =/= M, depending on the legibility of N < Pe < A < Pk, which both disprove N = M.

Quote originally posted by Regeneration:

To hell with all this actually. Why are we putting in maths into shipping?

O_O Why the heck is math, of all things, involved? Reminds me so much of my probability math lessons, and I don't really like probability.

Don't know if this is discussed before, I found this ship called FlavescentShipping, and it's between Shooti (Trip is such a retarded name so I'm not calling him that) and Iris, apparently. OnO;;;And then I saw that Trip's category is "Ships with Trip", aheheee /shot

And for some reason I'm starting to ship Dento/Iris (WishfulShipping) for some reason. *v* Their fanart is so cuteeeee <3

Prove it's not a taboo and prove the writers don't consider a global audience, wilst the implications that the writers do consider globaility are the Multicultural aspects of Generation V and $$$$$. Prove otherwise those two points and we'll talk.

You haven't completely proven the flaw in the logic. And I said the only two possibilities are N and M cannot be compared, or N =/= M, depending on the legibility of N < Pe < A < Pk, which both disprove N = M.

You're the one you has to prove it to make your equation viable. Otherwise, I can simply go M > N and say, "Because I say so," since it's based on as much assumption as you're putting into your math. Which makes your logic flawed.

That's no fun. Disturbing has way too much of a range. Disturbing could be anything from light Bass/Megaman fluff (simply because it's gay) to brutal rape of any character. ...Or genderbending mpreg. Or what I've written: Protoman/gijinka!Tango. It's hardly anything to go by in that fandom (any fandom). No possibility of prodding him for details? Or was it too long ago?

Well Yah it should, I mean even none Yaoi shippers admitted some thing about that sceneXD

Advancedk47 loves Math, that's why math is being used here though it doesn't help the future of ships cuz Pokemon isn't all about romance. Its about a guy and his Pikachu traveling around the world to be a Pokemon master. People ship for the heck of it, but only a few ships have sort of become canon at the end and not even really canon either. Lets look back shall we?

Contestshipping=The most canon thing we will ever see in this series, we don't even know if they ended up together or not.

Orangeshipping=People can argue or not but these two spend the most time together since Ash left them behind.

So there yah go. Oh yah and Oak and Ash's mom, I have no idea what her age is though LOL. So we can go on and on about what ships have 100 % possibilty of being canon, facts are till the series end we won't know. Even than, like some one said Ash could end up alone and just still travel, trying to be a Pokemon master wouldn't that be crazy? I'd actually rather him be an E4 when he's adult but whatever. So yes, Negaishipping has just as much as a chance as happing as CafeMochashipping. I ship both.

You're the one you has to prove it to make your equation viable. Otherwise, I can simply go M > N and say, "Because I say so," since it's based on as much assumption as you're putting into your math. Which makes your logic flawed.

And anyways, there's yet another contradiction in your equation; mainly because of your defining postulate, which you stated:

Quote originally posted by AdvancedK47:

Let's assume the argument that no or none of these two ships are possible, N=M=0. The only problem is that we never know the chances of a ship actually becoming canon. You are not a writer, and therefore you cannot claim a 0% chance on anything.

And thus, the rest of it should have been null and void; and technically ALL shippings should have an infinitesimal probability (approaching the limit 0, of course ). And this is because!!:

Quote originally posted by PearlShipper4Life:

Advancedk47 loves Math, that's why math is being used here though it doesn't help the future of ships cuz Pokemon isn't all about romance. Its about a guy and his Pikachu traveling around the world to be a Pokemon master. People ship for the heck of it, but only a few ships have sort of become canon at the end and not even really canon either. Lets look back shall we?

That's no fun. Disturbing has way too much of a range. Disturbing could be anything from light Bass/Megaman fluff (simply because it's gay) to brutal rape of any character. ...Or genderbending mpreg. Or what I've written: Protoman/gijinka!Tango. It's hardly anything to go by in that fandom (any fandom).

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