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If you are going to take a FOREIGN player...they cannot simply be role players. Period.

As management you are trying to convince this kid from overseas...that most people haven't SEEN on a consistent basis, couldn't pick this guy out of major magazine sports publication in America if they tried, couldn't spell the name correctly on average...is better than our own local/domestic product.

The fact is most foreign imports just are not good enough to play in the NBA. It's only a handful. American players know the American game. And the American game is about power not simply being a big man who can shoot the 3 ball, or have a good FT&#37;. Because you need his ass to block, rebound, and defend late in games in crunch time.

The Hall of Fame proves my point don't be mad because you can't win that argument all of sudden, like a bitch. The Hall of fame...is always looking at complete basketball states...and YES from all over the GLOBE. Hell they just added the Harlem Rens...team that hasn't been around for what 80 some odd years? So that little bull**** about not really accounting historically from the influx of foreign players is bull****.

Pro-basketball in America NOT older than international basketball.

NBA was founded June 1946. It's been 62 years.

FIBA has been around since 1932. So it's 14 years older than the NBA. You dumb****. Technically, 1930 since it was recognized by the IOC two years prior. So let's count....78 years. But we'll just count from FIBA specifically.

So the NBA has 134 Hall of Famers as PLAYERS.

FIBA remember has been around since 1932...14 years before the NBA.

FIBA also has a HALL OF FAME... Know how many players are in there's??

21....that's RIGHT FOLKS...21.

The organization that has been around since 1932 has only 21 players in their Hall of Fame.

2 of them are American...Bill Russell & Ann Meyers.

So that's really 19.

143 USA >>>>>>19 FIBA. And remember they had a 14 year head start...on our American homegrown players. So they should be well ahead of us as far as GREAT INTERNATIONAL PLAYERS..and Hall of Famers but...NO THEY AINT.

Far far away from the orgy that consist of clyde, 8's, rady, smokes and rono

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No one is reading your junk until you reply fully to this. You're going off topic on some ignorant ****.

You always say the same thing.

He "folds in the playoffs"

First of all, we know you're unemployed. Only unemployed people try to convince others online that they work; because its important for them.

What do you know about the Greek League, you *******?
Nothing, so shut it.

Dirk lead his team to the NBA finals and has been the best player on one of the best teams in the team in the last 5-7 years. He's succeeded more than 95% of the players in the NBA and is a top 5-10 player.

You're hating is played out and repetitive.

Once again, you know nothing about international basketball.

ACB is the toughest league outside of the NBA and Euroleague. Most scouts would agree, as well as many NBA GM's and Scouts.

NCAA basketball isn't even on the level of Euro-League.

Didn't a Euroleague team beat the Raptors last time?

Lakers made the Finals without their center prospect.

Boston was just too good, regardless. Lakers wouldn't be in the finals without Gasol.

"what have you done for me lately? "

You sound like a faggot in need of ****.

AK47 is still a good player, one of the best role players in the NBA.

Ginobili is the best SG in the NBA behind Kobe Byrant.
He's unselfish and can still dominate a game. He can play many roles for rip and everyone in the NBA knows he could put up superstar numbers if given Crawford type minutes.
For you to question Ginobili makes you a ****ing moron. He's suceeded in every league he's been.

Ginobili is a winner and one of the most exciting guys to watch in the league.

The **** you hating for? Did a bunch of Euros run a train on your mother to some weird ass Euro techo?
Calm the **** down with your emotional post, there is zero facts in your post.

Yao was definitely worth the number one pick, unlike a couple of other American bust pointed out in this thread.

Parker, top 10 PG.

Yi isn't a center, he's a SF/PF. Do your research.

Okur was a former all star, shut up.

Scola was a rookie and still averaged 14 and 9 for the Rockets.

Scola will be 15 and 10 player in the NBA, just like he was in EUROPE. Its funny because he'll average better numbers in the NBA than Europe.

NBA defense is more soft, where Euro has war-like rugged defense which reminds you off 80's NBA basketball.

Andrew Bogut just got signed to a nice fat contract by the Bucks, what you mean they aint feeling him?

5-yr/$60mm Guaranteed + $12.5mm possible bonuses

Could this be the first post in Knicksonline history where a poster is 100% wrong on everything he wrote? I think we have a winner.

You just wasted my time, everything you wrote gets killed by my first post.

Originally Posted by metrocard

You're probably the worst at understanding simple facts.

Look at the international guys without NCAA experience that have fully succeded in the NBA lately:

Predrag Stojakovic(NBA all star, one of the best shooters in NBA history) was selected in the 1996 draft, but come to the NBA until the 98-99 season. Previously he played with PAOK in the Greek League and averaged 23.9 points with very tough competition. He was on an elite team also.

Dirk Nowitzki(MVP, All star, Top 10 player) helped his team get promoted to First German Division right before being picked in the 1998 draft. He was the league's top scorer with 21.4 ppg and third rebounder with 8.4 rpg.

Pau Gasol's(All star, top 10 big man) dominance in the ACB(best league outside the NBA) League during the 2000-2001 season helped him earned MVP honours at the King's Cup, leading F.C. Barcelona to a perfect 9-0 record during the playoffs.

Andrei Kirilenko(All star, elite defensive player) was the MVP in his last season in the Russian Superleague. He averaged 19.2 points and 8.7 rebounds for Russia at the European Championships in the summer of 2001.

Yao Ming(Elite center, all star, best offensive center in the NBA since Shaq) had Chamberlain-esque stats in China the season before he was chosen by the Rockets averaged 32.4 points (with 72% on FG), 19 rebounds and 4.8 blocked shots, and lead the Shangai Sharks to their first CBA title.

Manu Ginobili(All star, NBA champion, probably the best SG in the NBA behind Kobe) won all kinds of tournaments; Euroleague, Italian league and Italian Cup) and MVP trophies before joining the Spurs in 2002(He was drafted in 1999). He led Argentina to a silver medal in Indiannapolis, making history after beating USA badly. Ginobili won a couple of championships also, making him one of the most successful basketball players in the history of basketball, winning a championship in every league he's been.

Tony Parker(All star, NBA champion, elite PG.
His last season in France with Paris Basket Racing (2000-2001), he only averaged 14.7 points and 5.6 assists. Not great numbers, but Parker always was scouted for his blazing speed. An elite athlete.

Here's the pattern.
Big accomplishers who are developed and contribute to their overseas teams and making them win against very good competition most of the time turn out to be very successful in the NBA.

Nikoloz Tskitishvili and Darko Milicic were benchwarmers in Europe. If anyone's to blame its the stupid GM's who draft these guys so high and draft proven guys like Parker and Ginobili so low. Bottom line players like those aren't ready and will never be ready to live to the expectation.
This strategy of drafting and signing immature European teenagers has backfired on many teams.

Andrea Bargnani will be just a taller Antwain Jamison without the rebounding skills.

He shouldn't be considered a bust yet.

Yi Jianlian got GAME and will produce in the NBA. He has post skills, can block shots, has freakish athlecism for a 7 footer, range from 3pt and loves to rebound and bang in the post.

Yao is # 2 behind Shaq? You don't even know your center rankings.

Dwight Howard is the best center in the NBA. Or Even Amare.
Yao was number 1 for a while also.
Shaq hasn't been the same and isn't even a top 5 center in the NBA no more, where you been?

Arroyo is a C+ level PG, undrafted. No one expected him to make the NBA and he still managed to produce respectfully in the league.

Luis Scola is a NBA rookie who averaged 14 PPG and 9.3 rebounds in the PLAYOFFS, you said he only does work in the REG season. Damn, you are wrong again, no suprise.
Luis Scola was another SUCESSFUL EUROLEAGUE player who made the all rookie team and will continue to be a very good starter for the Rockets next to Yao.

I bet if Oden was from FRANCE, you would be calling him out for being "Too soft" and use that for the reason why he missed the whole year.

You're trying too hard.
Not coming with the facts.
Failing miserably with each sentence you write.

Peja is a career 18 and 5 player and was drafted 14th overall...STFU. Theres more American BUST in the playoffs too, do I have to call them out to make a point? Not even you are that dumb to not realize it.
But I'm going to do that.

Here's trivia for you.
Who was the best player at 14 in the last 10 years in the NBA Draft?
AN INTERNATIONAL PLAYER FROM YUGOSLAVIA
Dude, 9 of those American BUST don't even combine together to have the career Peja had. I just pointed out more bust than you did in one simple point. You think I'm done? LOL...theres a reason why dudes avoid to get in debates with me here, the facts I bring are HEAVY.

2003 was one of the greatest drafts in NBA history.
Sweetney though.
T.J. Ford didn't live up to hype, got traded 3 times already.
Hinrich is average.
Jarvis Hayes?
Marcus Banks is a scrub
Collinson is average
Troy Bell and Reece Gaines aren't even in the NBA.

Diaw, Barbosa, Bell are all contributors on Phoneix.
Turkyglu won most improved player and has become the vocal point on offense for the Magic. He's a 20/5/4 player.
Nicioni has been the Bulls most consistant player, ask most Bulls fans.
Jose Calderon is one of the best PG's in the NBA, T.J. Ford could be considered a BUST since he was traded 3 times already and hasn't lived up to expectations.
Parker and Garbojosa are NBA starting material.
Spurs stock piled on international talent and proved you could suceed in the NBA with European style of basketball (rugged, defensive basketball with fundamental pick and roll on offense)

I'm a NBA/Draft/Int'l basketball guru, I follow this deeply since 2004. I come heavy with the knowledge and research, so if you want to actually make this is a debate instead of a slaughter, I suggest for you to step up your weight.

The **** you expect every non-USA guy to dominate the league? You're logic is the most retarded one I seen, on some real talk. No attempt to disrespect you, I respect your post, but I never seen anyone this dumb on such a topic.

I've said INTERNATIONAL PLAYERS DON'T CUT IT..MY BASIC POINT SINCE PAGE 1.

I've proved it.

U fags just don't wanna hear the truth.

It's all mathematics...

If they were that much better...how come an association thats been around almost a decade and a half...has 7x less hall of famers when they have been doing it professionally so much longer than the Americans??

It's funny with that long ass post of yours you're only counting from the the 98 DRAFT...you gotta start at the very beginning. As far as the NBA goes from 1946 to get real numbers..then go to 2008.

Face facts...

In OUR (WE THE USA) 62 years worth of players...playing basketball PROFESSIONALLY. We (THE USA) have 7.5X the amount of GREAT PLAYERS, when compared to the large body work produced by the International basketball community, which keep in mind as mentioned above is at bare minimum 14 years...older than the NBA.

That translates into for 14 years..they've had players considered PROFESSIONALS...before we decided to create our OWN professional American leagues. So for 14 years...they had PROFESSIONALS. And the highest our basketball went was COLLEGE.

Like I said 143 hall of FAMERS...to 19.

And they've been doing it longer than we have...

EXPLAIN HOW A LEAGUE 14 YEARS OLDER THAN OUR OWN..HAS 7.5X fewer great players??

I agree with metro and i predict that the big **** will be one of the 5 best european players ever...right now i think ginobilis the best with dirk in 2nd and the often injured yao bling bling ming in 3rd.

strong statement if he does become a great player its cuz of his baketball IQ and agressiveness...he has a great shot according to Walsh so the worst case scenario is that he winds being a role playing shooting forward.

I don't know. I think it's Dwyane Wade. But Ginobili is definitely one of the top 5 shooting guards in the NBA. I just don't know where to put him. He's somewhere between 3-5, in my opinion.

I put Ginobili 2nd because wade missed most of the season...but if wade comes back and picks up where he left off against dallas in the finals 2 years ago then hes #2 but it would be tough to argue anyone as #3 over ginobili.

Like I said before... I think the 2002 draft is the best to use to prove your points... since Dirk started the international player being drafted in the first round trend in '99... kinda like Kemp did with HS players in 91... but it wasn't until '02 that international players really got shine in the draft... so without further ado...

1 Yao Ming (C) China Houston Rockets Shanghai Sharks (China) 1980 - may very well be a bust in the future... always injured... for now though... worth the pick...

2 Jay Williams (PG) United States Chicago Bulls Duke Jr. - BUST

3 Mike Dunleavy, Jr. (SF) United States Golden State Warriors Duke Jr. - still incomplete grade for this cat... started getting better in Indy...

4 Drew Gooden (PF) United States Memphis Grizzlies Kansas Jr. - never learned how to be a consistent scorer or defender...

7 Maybyner "Nen&#234;" Hilario (PF) Brazil New York Knicks (traded to Denver)[7] Vasco da Gama (Brazil) 1982 - BUST remember we booed him? if i knew we were gonna trade him for mcdyess i wouldn't have been bothered...

28 Dan Dickau (PG) United States Sacramento Kings (traded to Atlanta) Gonzaga Sr. - role player

half the international players taken in the first round... Yao, Nacbar, Kristic... weren't busts... of the american players taken in round 1... only 9/22 were any good...

and before either side gets gassed... consider this... metro... would you rather have yao... amare or boozer (who was taken in the 2nd round of this draft)... or welsch or tayshaun prince? and knicksfanz... would you rather have ely, haislip, jones or nacbar? or Dixon, Borchardt, Humphrey, Rush, Woods, Jacobsen or kristic? c'mon...

gallenari is supposed to rebound... have a nasty streak... and a shot... could scouting reports be wrong? absolutely... but i'm not gonna trash the guy before seeing him play especially since anyone else that was available at #6 would have been too risky (bayless, gordon, etc are not the pure point guards we need and mayo was gone)...

But when it's time for war
I'm trying to score like Bernard King
"Behind Closed Doors"
~Pharaoh Monch