weigh heavily. Sorry, I don't ever bother proof reading these things. Thank God for context, right?
If someone presents their opinion in a negative way, then the probability of getting a negative response has been raised.
Personally, criticizing the size of a woman's breast, and then deeming that woman manly is offensive . Way more offensive than Dan getting hotty about it. Most female characters in cartoons have one body type. Just one. Men on the other hand are short, heavy set, lanky and buff. Though Pumyra is far from flat chested, it's offensive that any body type other than Cheetara's is deemed less feminine, or not as womanly. Just like men, women come in all shapes and sizes. That goes double for breast!
Criticizing her "lack of rack" is just gross and mean spirited.
Hope that post wasnt too difficult to read. Didn't proof read this one either
Ok. Agree to disagree.

Not a problem, like I said, I just wanted to be sure I understood you. I remember watching an episode of "Who Wants To Be A Millionaire" where Regis read a question wrong and caused a guy to lose big money because of the misunderstanding.

"If someone presents their opinion in a negative way, then the probability of getting a negative response has been raised." - This all hinges on the perception of the opinion being presented in a negative way. As life shows us, different people percieve things differently. What one might see as negative, another might not. All because of their different perceptions.

I'd agree with you about the breasts if that's all he commented on but given the fact that he also commented on the eyebrows and hair design as well, I see it as more of an aesthetic criticism than negative criticism - just percieved wrong. Besides, it's not like he suggested pumping her up to Pam Anderson Baywatch era proportions or the like in the chest department. That would have been offensive and I would certainly agree with you then.

Lol, no, it wasn't difficult to read at all. As a matter of fact, it was quite well presented. I enjoyed the fact that while we might not agree on the matter, we could share our different opinions in an enlightening discussion.

Anyway it's not that Dan can't take criticism. It's how that criticism is presented that's the problem. Frankly if he couldn't take criticism there would be no way he would be able to make a living doing what he does because his bosses (and potential bosses) can and would criticize the hell out of his work.

Exactly, good point. I dabble in art myself. Nothing spectacular, the occasional Transformers or MLP FiM art here and there. I appreciate criticism that's given like "You should focus more on shading" or "His left leg feels off, check that out".

However 'criticism' like Dan got, is not criticism. It's trolling. Saying straight out that you don't like something, fine. But saying you don't like Pumyra because "she looks like a man with such breasts" (which, btw, astounds me, she has perfectly fine breasts IMHO), or just leaving a comment saying "It sucks"? Sorry, that's trolling.

I know, internet and (relative) anonymity provides people with opportunities to "tell off" anyone, that still does not make this a mature behaviour. Especially because they provide no valid reason why they dislike something. In which case, I say they should have better not spoken at all. And such baseless dirt-throwing can and will make people mad, especially if they worked hard on said artwork. I can totally understand Dan. He's probably still working hard to provide new designs for Season 2, and he takes the time to still share his S1 work with us.

Great episode, but my god, everything with Pumyra was a mixed bag. Last episode she was all nice to Lion-O, this episode she was acting like a bitch to him. is this lady on her period right now? And then, Lion-O hands here the sword and she gets beaten by Mumm-Ra in 3 seconds. Lion-O should have just kept the sword instead of "splitting up." In fact, there was no need for them to split up when they were just going to do that anyway, they should have just had Mumm-Ra surprise them and get Pumyra.

Exactly, good point. I dabble in art myself. Nothing spectacular, the occasional Transformers or MLP FiM art here and there. I appreciate criticism that's given like "You should focus more on shading" or "His left leg feels off, check that out".

However 'criticism' like Dan got, is not criticism. It's trolling. Saying straight out that you don't like something, fine. But saying you don't like Pumyra because "she looks like a man with such breasts" (which, btw, astounds me, she has perfectly fine breasts IMHO), or just leaving a comment saying "It sucks"? Sorry, that's trolling.

I know, internet and (relative) anonymity provides people with opportunities to "tell off" anyone, that still does not make this a mature behaviour. Especially because they provide no valid reason why they dislike something. In which case, I say they should have better not spoken at all. And such baseless dirt-throwing can and will make people mad, especially if they worked hard on said artwork. I can totally understand Dan. He's probably still working hard to provide new designs for Season 2, and he takes the time to still share his S1 work with us.

I'm just going to come to my friend's defense here just a hair (NewGuy13), mostly because he doesn't come to the boards.

From Wikipedia:In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[4] The noun troll may refer to the provocative message itself, as in: "That was an excellent troll you posted."

He wasn't trolling, he wrote a poorly worded opinion of Pumyra's new design. He didn't just dislike her body structure, he didn't like her hair (some folks on the other boards called it a mullet!), and he didn't like her eyebrows. Could have he said it better? Of course he could. And he should've. He doesn't say that to provoke Dan or anyone else, sometimes he talks without thinking it thoroughly, as we all can do from time to time. A troll feeds on attention, which he does not. Don't think he hasn't heard from me about doing what he did. The first thing I told him when I saw that post was "Oh no you didn't!" He told me it was just his honest opinion and that he's sticking by it. He still likes all the stuff Dan does, just not that one. And unlike other trolls, he doesn't go to the Crew of Omens board, Facebook, Fanfiction, Thundercats Lair, this website, WB, CN, whining and complaining about Dan's drawing of Pumyra, insulting his character/integrity/lifestyle/job/storyline/animation/hairstyle/etcetera or even the rest of the TC crew for what's been going on with TC. Now THAT, would compromise a troll. He commented on one drawing by Dan Norton, and one more drawing of Pumyra by another person. That was it.

I'm sorry if I got a little worked up about this, but he is a good friend of mine and I'm not just going to sit here while his comment, though not very polite, gets blown out of proportion.

I have lost all respect for DN. He must've gotten his A$$ kicked when he was a kid to act like that. I bet you he is not the same person if you met him fact to face.

People critize athletes, they also take more hate from fans and the media. They handle it better than DN. I mean some of these athletes are still teenagers. The have cameras in their face all the time, DN doesn't. Point it, they handle themselves better than a guy who draws.

I have lost all respect for DN. He must've gotten his A$$ kicked when he was a kid to act like that. I bet you he is not the same person if you met him fact to face.

People critize athletes, they also take more hate from fans and the media. They handle it better than DN. I mean some of these athletes are still teenagers. The have cameras in their face all the time, DN doesn't. Point it, they handle themselves better than a guy who draws.

He should just ignore the remark. People have opinions.

This is a consequence of presenting one's work in the public eye, whether you're a celebrity, an athlete, or a fanfiction writer. Someone out there is going to flame you regardless of what you do.

To quote Dave Chapelle "Haters gonna hate, lovers gonna love, I don't even want none of the above..." (I can't say the rest of the lyrics here, its inappropriate and out of topic, lol!)

Great episode, but my god, everything with Pumyra was a mixed bag. Last episode she was all nice to Lion-O, this episode she was acting like a bitch to him. is this lady on her period right now? And then, Lion-O hands here the sword and she gets beaten by Mumm-Ra in 3 seconds. Lion-O should have just kept the sword instead of "splitting up." In fact, there was no need for them to split up when they were just going to do that anyway, they should have just had Mumm-Ra surprise them and get Pumyra.

Being a slave and fighting in the Pit for survival can mess with her head.

Pumyra might also represent that group of fans who want someone to grill Lion-O once in a while.

Great episode, but my god, everything with Pumyra was a mixed bag. Last episode she was all nice to Lion-O, this episode she was acting like a bitch to him. is this lady on her period right now? And then, Lion-O hands here the sword and she gets beaten by Mumm-Ra in 3 seconds. Lion-O should have just kept the sword instead of "splitting up." In fact, there was no need for them to split up when they were just going to do that anyway, they should have just had Mumm-Ra surprise them and get Pumyra.

I'm willing to bet she's perfectly capable of being a bitch on and off her period 0.o
What do we call it when Lion-O and Tygra are having off days? Geeze why can't she just be pissed or upset?

Anywho, just because she was nice to Lion-O last episode ( which is not completely true, she did blame him for their capture) it doesn't mean she wont snap at him later. She's passionate about the slaves, and so maybe she got a little abrasive when Lion-O questioned her plan because The alternate plan would have compromised the slaves.
Sure she said she would follow him, but that doesn't mean she wont question him at times too.

Too much history between Lion-O and Tygra. I think Lion-O might be more open to criticism from Pumyra because he doesn't have to worry about where it's coming from.

And since the Trials Tygra's let up on Lion-O considerably, partly because he better understands the kind of pressure he's had to live under, but also because Lion-O himself is a better person who makes better choices.

The original point of AI’s post was to argue that Dan Norton was being rather unprofessional in his exchanges with other people (which I agree with, he was).
Not whether he had a “right” to respond as he did or that the other person (NewGuy13) was insensitive and crude (indeed, he was); that’s not relevant to his argument.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Norton

don't come across as misogynistic and glib

That’s a bit rich coming from the guy who called Cheetara an “anorexic ho.”

It's really none of our business if he can afford a new car or not. I think all CreepySiriFan is asking is that you have a little sympathy for the guy and understand that someone who has just been in a car accident might be in a different state of mind then what they'd usually be.

Do you have his doctor’s report or some sort of psychological analysis to back up your claim that it was the car accident that caused him to be in such a negative mood?

Maybe it's just that he can’t take criticism well sometimes?

It was unprofessional because he made it personal when he needn’t have. He should have ignored it.

Besides, if he was in such a ‘traumatised’ condition, perhaps he shouldn’t have been answering questions or replying to criticism in the first place.

Quote:

Do you have his doctor’s report or some sort of psychological analysis to back up your claim that it was the car accident that caused him to be in such a negative mood?

..we really need all of that? We can't just be human and give the guy a little leeway? I still don't feel that he crossed the line, but if you've ever been in a car accident then you would know all of the BS that goes into dealing with something like that.

The guy complained that Pumyra was a fail because her boobs were too small....

No he didn't. He complained that he felt like Pumyra was a male design because of several reasons; like her eyebrows etc of which boobsize was ONE of them.

Quote:

I don't think Dan did anything wrong. If someone wants to leave a rude comment, then they should expect a rude reply. Isn't that one of those golden rules? Fans have a habit of acting like they are entitled to a show that fits them perfectly, and when they decide to be an ass about it, they expect nothing short of sweet understanding from the creators.

That was a rude comment??

Quote:

LOL, then the guy spams Pumya fanart leaving no constructive criticism, only that she looks like a man. Like Dan said, if you want to leave a comment, then do so in a respectful manner. Not just for the sake of Dan, but also for the tons of people who visit his account daily.

Respect has to be earned. Just because you're Dan norton, Bill gates, George Bush etc etc, doesn't mean everyone has to respect you -_-

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balgus82

I don't think that particular guy was trolling, but I do believe his comments were out of line. Maybe Dan shouldn't have been quite as harsh, but it's his page and frankly how the dude worded his initial comment would've insulted me as well. It wasn't written constructively. He didn't start saying he liked Dan's other work until after the first reply by Dan.

Seriously, what is out of line about the original comment. He basically said 'sorry, design not doing it for me. Looks like a d00d' If this is what people consider out of line, maybe they shouldn't go onto the internet. Or forums. And definitely not /b.

Quote:

I can totally understand him. The guy produces exterme quality art (seriously, his work is astounding) and when he does post the designs online all he gets is some butt-hurt nerds whining about how Pumyra has too big eyebrows or other similar nonesense.

Let me tell you, when Derrick Wyatt shared his Animated TF designs, most of the Transformers fans posting on his blog were GLAD and THANKFUL he shared them, and did not criticise his art style. An art director does not have to share his designs with the fans, in many series, it is actually forbidden to do so by the company making the cartoon. In most franchises I know, the fans are thankful for this. Apparently, in Thundercats fandom, people rather whine about minute details. Seriously, you lot are pissed off about really small things. I would like to see your faces if you had to deal with major "turn the story upside down, redesign everything until it's unrecognizable" changes like we Transformers fans had to deal with. I'd like to see the reactions if tomorrow you would learn Michael Bay was directing a live-action Thundercats movie with Shia LeBeuf as Lion-O.

DO NOT WANT. Let's not let Michael Bay touch ANY 80s franchise every again.

But seriously, all I'm getting from this and from 'certain' people is that 'oh i put something on the net. EVERYONE MUST BOW DOWN AND WORSHIP ME. Oh and not say anything that disagrees with me'. I've seen this in fanfic authors; *coughperfectlionheartcough* to name a few and it's usually a sign of a horrible character and personality.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balgus82

Anyway it's not that Dan can't take criticism. It's how that criticism is presented that's the problem. Frankly if he couldn't take criticism there would be no way he would be able to make a living doing what he does because his bosses (and potential bosses) can and would criticize the hell out of his work.

He can't take criticism from people who don't have the power to fire him apparently. I've seen that in some people. They suck it up from the bosses cause they kind of have to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CreepySariFan

So do I. I could buy a brand new 2012 Dodge Challenger right now if I was some kind of impulsive brat who didn't know how to manage his funds.

The point is, do you even know how stressful it is to have been in a vehicular accident? Are you that shallow? For all we know, he narrowly missed getting killed.

Shame on you for even bringing this up.

As a guy who has been in THREE vehicular accidents before, one of which involved a damn lorry ramming into the passenger side of the car I was in; and almost one-shotting me, I can tell you this. I wasn't crass or cross with anyone after it happened. If I found something that annoyed me, I just left it because I had better things to do. It says something about Dan that he doesn't.

CreepySariFan made a very specific argument: that DN was acting in such a negative way as a result of the car accident. He states it as if it was a fact and I merely pointed out that without actual evidence he is making a fallacious argument.

Quote:

We can't just be human and give the guy a little leeway? I still don't feel that he crossed the line, but if you've ever been in a car accident then you would know all of the BS that goes into dealing with something like that.

All I did was to say that DN was rather unprofessional in his handling of criticism and questions. Surely, that wasn’t very harsh?

CreepySariFan made a very specific argument: that DN was acting in such a negative way as a result of the car accident. He states it as if it was a fact and I merely pointed out that without actual evidence he is making a fallacious argument.

All I did was to say that DN was rather unprofessional in his handling of criticism and questions. Surely, that wasn’t very harsh?

The harsh part was asking for proof of his mental distress...
Once again, all he was asking was for a little sympathy. We will never know if the accident affected his mood ( I've never heard about anything like this before, so I think it's safe to say it did)
Even if he flat out said he was stressed behind the accident and it was causing him to act out, we still wouldnt have proof of it. At least, not the kind of proof you're asking for.

The harsh part was asking for proof of his mental distress...
Once again, all he was asking was for a little sympathy. We will never know if the accident affected his mood ( I've never heard about anything like this before, so I think it's safe to say it did)

Exactly, the accident may or may not have contributed to his negative mood. We do not know at this point. Perhaps DN is simply bad at handling criticism.

Therefore, arguments like those made by some on this forum, which attribute his behaviour to the accident, do not hold. That’s my point, sorry if it seems harsh.

Quote:

Even if he flat out said he was stressed behind the accident and it was causing him to act out,...

Actually, I would have accepted that. However, that would still not excuse his behaviour.

No he didn't. He complained that he felt like Pumyra was a male design because of several reasons; like her eyebrows etc of which boobsize was ONE of them.

That was a rude comment??

Respect has to be earned. Just because you're Dan norton, Bill gates, George Bush etc etc, doesn't mean everyone has to respect you -_-

Seriously, what is out of line about the original comment. He basically said 'sorry, design not doing it for me. Looks like a d00d' If this is what people consider out of line, maybe they shouldn't go onto the internet. Or forums. And definitely not /b.

DO NOT WANT. Let's not let Michael Bay touch ANY 80s franchise every again.

But seriously, all I'm getting from this and from 'certain' people is that 'oh i put something on the net. EVERYONE MUST BOW DOWN AND WORSHIP ME. Oh and not say anything that disagrees with me'. I've seen this in fanfic authors; *coughperfectlionheartcough* to name a few and it's usually a sign of a horrible character and personality.

He can't take criticism from people who don't have the power to fire him apparently. I've seen that in some people. They suck it up from the bosses cause they kind of have to.

As a guy who has been in THREE vehicular accidents before, one of which involved a damn lorry ramming into the passenger side of the car I was in; and almost one-shotting me, I can tell you this. I wasn't crass or cross with anyone after it happened. If I found something that annoyed me, I just left it because I had better things to do. It says something about Dan that he doesn't.

The fact that he commented about her eyebrows and everything else doesn't change the fact that her boob size was brought into the conversation, nor make it less offensive. A woman is not a woman because of the size of her breast. Breast size does not make one woman more womanly than the other. The idea that women have to look a certain way to be considered women is offensive and misogynistic. Who the hell is he to say what makes a woman a woman? If the screen name is anything to go by, then he doesn't even have breast or a vagina, so excuse the hell out of me if I think he should take a seat on the subject at hand.

You really don't see how his comment could be interpreted as rude or hurtful? Personally, I think everyone should have been turned off by the way he voiced his complaint, but as a woman who is constantly bombarded with one standard of beauty that she does NOT fit, I find it disgusting that he even implies breast size should be taken into consideration when deciding who looks like a woman. Same goes for eyebrows and hair style. You don't like it ? Fine, but saying she looks like a man because of those nitpicks is taking it too far.

you know what maybe you're right. I should just get my hurt sensitive ass off the internet.

Nope, not in my book. I respect everyone until they give me a reason not to. You should expect to get what you put out.

Ok, so that's how you reacted to being in a car accident. Still, I don't think its a stretch to say some people might react differently.
EDIT: Done talking about this. There was no reason for that conversation to be posted in this thread in the first place. It had nothing to do with the conversation at hand and was obviously just an excuse to stir up trouble. Dan's personality or attitude has nothing to do with this episode or Thundercats.

Ok, so that's how you reacted to being in a car accident. Still, I don't think its a stretch to say some people might react differently.

I'll vouch for this one. I work in health care and I have seen both extremes. People who recover well after the accident like nothing happened, and people who still get anxiety attacks many years after. And sometimes it doesn't matter how bad/minor the accident was.

I'm not mad at you or anything CSF, i was just confused. I do apologize to you all if i appeared insensitive. I suppose all the things that have happened to me that getting in an accident doesn't sound that traumatic to me, personally, though I'm not sure how bad it was.

I'll vouch for this one. I work in health care and I have seen both extremes. People who recover well after the accident like nothing happened, and people who still get anxiety attacks many years after. And sometimes it doesn't matter how bad/minor the accident was.

That's not an excuse, btw, just a matter of fact.

Mom, and two of my younger siblings got hit by a Coca-Cola truck. My sister still can't drive on the freeways and had nightmares about it for a good year, but other than a few cuts and bruises she was physically fine. My brother on the other hand doesn't have much to say about it, and he had to be resuscitated.

Oh, another thing I forgot to mention is that I am glad the voice acting was back on top. The last few episodes really felt like the cast was just reading their lines and not really into their characters.

Until a bit after the Trials, Lion-O pretty much had it easy and a lot of leeway to do things anyway he wanted. There was little to no snap-back for his decisions even if they were stupid or risked the lives of the group. Even if there was, he just ignored or shrugged it off.

Pumyra seems to be the counterbalance since her snapping gets his attention and makes him stop to explain himself.

The fact that he commented about her eyebrows and everything else doesn't change the fact that her boob size was brought into the conversation, nor make it less offensive. A woman is not a woman because of the size of her breast. Breast size does not make one woman more womanly than the other. The idea that women have to look a certain way to be considered women is offensive and misogynistic. Who the hell is he to say what makes a woman a woman? If the screen name is anything to go by, then he doesn't even have breast or a vagina, so excuse the hell out of me if I think he should take a seat on the subject at hand.

So bringing up boob size when talking about women is now offensive and misogynistic? Can we apply that same logic to women talking about how hot the muscles on guys makes them look then and how it makes them look really masculine? Cause I'm so sick of hearing them gush about the actor who plays Thor or Taylor Lautner.

But on a more serious note, who the hell are you to say that he can't have his own damn opinions on what makes a woman a woman. If women can go on about what makes a guy a guy, why not vice versa? He's as much entitled to his own opinion as you are yours. The difference being you seem to be intent on slamming his.

Me? I'm a legs guy.

Quote:

You really don't see how his comment could be interpreted as rude or hurtful? Personally, I think everyone should have been turned off by the way he voiced his complaint, but as a woman who is constantly bombarded with one standard of beauty that she does NOT fit, I find it disgusting that he even implies breast size should be taken into consideration when deciding who looks like a woman. Same goes for eyebrows and hair style. You don't like it ? Fine, but saying she looks like a man because of those nitpicks is taking it too far.

So it's really more personal than anything else. I'm sorry to say this, but basically complaining about how you'll never fit other peoples standards of beauty won't make you feel better NOR will it make them change their standards -_-. You'll either have to a) learn to live with it or b) change. Either one. It's the same thing as people complaining about how they should have the right to say what they want and then get upset when people call them jerks. Freedom of expression is not freedom from consequence. We're social animals, if you can't live with the social dynamic, you either need to accept it or find enough angry, bitter people like you and change it.

you know what maybe you're right. I should just get my hurt sensitive ass off the internet.

EDIT: Done talking about this. There was no reason for that conversation to be posted in this thread in the first place. It had nothing to do with the conversation at hand and was obviously just an excuse to stir up trouble. Dan's personality or attitude has nothing to do with this episode or Thundercats.[/QUOTE]

It really has nothing to do with it. I just found it incredulous how many people were going 'you should only be nice to people who post their works online'. I guess it's the extreme of 'if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it'

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chique

Mom, and two of my younger siblings got hit by a Coca-Cola truck. My sister still can't drive on the freeways and had nightmares about it for a good year, but other than a few cuts and bruises she was physically fine. My brother on the other hand doesn't have much to say about it, and he had to be resuscitated.

Um, did they go onto facebook and then get needlessly angry at someone in a comment section? It seems not.

Nobody forced DN to go onto facebook and then make angry replies at people. Yes, he could have been suffering from stress or trauma or whatever. But let's look at it this way, he STILL chose to go onto facebook for god knows what reason after surviving a (maybe serious) vehicular accident. It's like people I know who go onto facebook and then complain about 'omg, my life sucks etc etc etc' or say how they're in so much trouble and then when people comment on that, they NEVER ever say what's up with them. Personally, if you've just survived a potentially fatal accident, I would think going onto facebook would be the LAST thing on your mind.

Nobody forced DN to go onto facebook and then make angry replies at people. Yes, he could have been suffering from stress or trauma or whatever. But let's look at it this way, he STILL chose to go onto facebook for god knows what reason after surviving a (maybe serious) vehicular accident. It's like people I know who go onto facebook and then complain about 'omg, my life sucks etc etc etc' or say how they're in so much trouble and then when people comment on that, they NEVER ever say what's up with them. Personally, if you've just survived a potentially fatal accident, I would think going onto facebook would be the LAST thing on your mind.

The first place I go when I'm nerve wracked is to the computer. I don't necessarily post things I'm proud of in a state of stress or otherwise. Posting them on the net it a permanent thing too, and sometimes one forgets that. Sure, there are consequences for doing so, but man, it sucks when no one is willing to back you up for being human once and awhile.

So bringing up boob size when talking about women is now offensive and misogynistic? Can we apply that same logic to women talking about how hot the muscles on guys makes them look then and how it makes them look really masculine? Cause I'm so sick of hearing them gush about the actor who plays Thor or Taylor Lautner.

But on a more serious note, who the hell are you to say that he can't have his own damn opinions on what makes a woman a woman. If women can go on about what makes a guy a guy, why not vice versa? He's as much entitled to his own opinion as you are yours. The difference being you seem to be intent on slamming his.

Me? I'm a legs guy.

So it's really more personal than anything else. I'm sorry to say this, but basically complaining about how you'll never fit other peoples standards of beauty won't make you feel better NOR will it make them change their standards -_-. You'll either have to a) learn to live with it or b) change. Either one. It's the same thing as people complaining about how they should have the right to say what they want and then get upset when people call them jerks. Freedom of expression is not freedom from consequence. We're social animals, if you can't live with the social dynamic, you either need to accept it or find enough angry, bitter people like you and change it.

you know what maybe you're right. I should just get my hurt sensitive ass off the internet.

EDIT: Done talking about this. There was no reason for that conversation to be posted in this thread in the first place. It had nothing to do with the conversation at hand and was obviously just an excuse to stir up trouble. Dan's personality or attitude has nothing to do with this episode or Thundercats.

It really has nothing to do with it. I just found it incredulous how many people were going 'you should only be nice to people who post their works online'. I guess it's the extreme of 'if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it'

Um, did they go onto facebook and then get needlessly angry at someone in a comment section? It seems not.

Nobody forced DN to go onto facebook and then make angry replies at people. Yes, he could have been suffering from stress or trauma or whatever. But let's look at it this way, he STILL chose to go onto facebook for god knows what reason after surviving a (maybe serious) vehicular accident. It's like people I know who go onto facebook and then complain about 'omg, my life sucks etc etc etc' or say how they're in so much trouble and then when people comment on that, they NEVER ever say what's up with them. Personally, if you've just survived a potentially fatal accident, I would think going onto facebook would be the LAST thing on your mind.[/QUOTE]

End Quote
************************************************** ****

Last thing, I swear
I'm not asking him to change his preference. I said it was offensive because breast size and it's apparent importance in how we criticize women (fictional and real) is offensive. He can be a big titty man all day and I wont give a damn. If a woman comments on your muscles or any other part of your anatomy and then deems you something other than a man, then tear into her.

His opinion on what makes a woman a woman is irrelevant and worthless. He is not a woman, he does not identify as a woman. He doesn't know what it's like to be a woman or to have his breast criticized for being too big , too small or the wrong shape, or whatever standards breast are held to. He can speak on it all day, but at the end of the day his opinion on breast should not be taken into consideration ( once again, HE doesn't have breast) so why bother commenting on her lack of rack? Male or female OP, the comment was stupid and offensive, but it's coming from someone who has no breast but obviously feels like he should toss in his two cents
I'm not trying to stop him from speaking out. I'm not going to drive to his house and stop him from posting or talking. All I'm saying is that he has no business speaking up on breast size and how it pertains to a woman being a woman.
It's personal, but not just. I am not the only woman who is sick of hearing about breast size, and about how the perfect figure must be a replica of
Jessica Beil or Halle Berry's figure.

Pssht I'm over feeling inadequate over stuff like that. Sure it bothers me that some people feel they have the right to speak up on something they know nothing about or will never have to face criticism for, but I don't feel any pressure or heat to change the way I look. This is not about some desperate need to fit in. I just feel like my status as someone who does have breast and a vagina might be more ( or profitable at all) profitable to a conversation about breast, over someone who has neither breast or a vaginaAs a woman who is not a Jessica or a Halle, I have to face these types of criticism.My opinion on it matters more than someone who will never face these criticisms. Now if I go to a picture of Lion-O and comment on his lack of bulge or w.e and then imply or state that he is less of a male, then I have way over stepped my bounds. I will never know what it's like to live with how other people feel about small dicks,so I really have no place talking about how un-manly someone is for have a small one.

LOL, I'm not complaining about our nations BS standard of beauty or talking about how all it serves to do is fuel insecurites and inaduqecy in people from the moment they can comprehend what those things are, at least not in that particular post and not in this forum Please, don't feel obliged to give me the plain jane run down In no way am I asking for it, and I never meant for my post to imply that I need it. While I'm sure your advice is good natured, you have no business telling me how to deal with my hypothetical problem because you wont ever have to deal with my hypothetical problem. Now I wont drive to your home and stop you from talking about it, but I'm letting you know your opinion/advice wont be taken into consideration because you will never deal with this particular problem. Once again, the idea that you even think you can give me advice on how to handle it is way out there. I don't think my one forum post is going to change anything, and I never said it would. I'm not trying to change anything.

I have every right to talk about how disgusting his comment is. Just like he has the right to state his opinion. I don't need to find bitter people or whatever the hell you're talking about. Anywho it's not about that. All I'm saying is his opinions and criticism of breast are worthless. The fact that he thought it was even ok to comment on her lack of rack is just...no. He has no breast and will never be criticized about the way his breast look so...no. Coming from any gender it would be disgusting, but coming from someone who will never face criticism about it is a higher level of "just no".

I don't see anything wrong with the way Dan handled it, but if it was so out of character then maybe his accident did have something to do with it. Once again, I really don't feel like he was in the wrong, so we'd just go in circles about that all day.

Last thing, I swear
I'm not asking him to change his preference. I said it was offensive because breast size and it's apparent importance in how we criticize women (fictional and real) is offensive. He can be a big titty man all day and I wont give a damn. If a woman comments on your muscles or any other part of your anatomy and then deems you something other than a man, then tear into her.

See, the funny thing is that you took offense to one part of what he said made Pumyra look like a dude. Out of all the things, you focused on the boobs. So...I guess big eyebrows are okay to judge a woman by then?

And secondly, this is a drawing, what others might call art. Notice I said art, not Art. What's art based on? Aesthetics, which means how people perceive the look of the drawing is very important. Unless you're one of those impressionist painters -_- There is nothing wrong with said guy using his own preferences to say 'nah, this chick doesn't do it for me'

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His opinion on what makes a woman a woman is irrelevant and worthless. He is not a woman, he does not identify as a woman. He doesn't know what it's like to be a woman or to have his breast criticized for being too big , too small or the wrong shape, or whatever standards breast are held to. He can speak on it all day, but at the end of the day his opinion on breast should not be taken into consideration ( once again, HE doesn't have breast) so why bother commenting on her lack of rack? Male or female OP, the comment was stupid and offensive, but it's coming from someone who has no breast but obviously feels like he should toss in his two cents
I'm not trying to stop him from speaking out. I'm not going to drive to his house and stop him from posting or talking. All I'm saying is that he has no business speaking up on breast size and how it pertains to a woman being a woman.

We must have boobs to comment on boobs? Stop the presses! Next thing we know, only politicians can comment on other politicians, only criminals can judge criminals and only artists can judge other artists.

Should his comment be taken into consideration? Depends, is the artist of Pumyra going for an all-female audience for Tcats? If not, then sure, his comment should be taken into consideration. Whether it's given weight or not is another matter. You shouldn't dismiss things just out of consideration because people aren't female -_-. What your stance here basically is 'if you're not female, don't express an opinion female drawings'.

And women comment on men being men all the time. I'd say unless you have a plan to brainwash the majority of humanity into being politically correct drones, just learn to pick certain battles to fight -_-

Btw, males DO have breasts -_- So yay, I guess we can continue talking about boobs. Thank goodness, I thought I was going to have to talk about actual topics, like you know, feelings or something.

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It's personal, but not just. I am not the only woman who is sick of hearing about breast size, and about how the perfect figure must be a replica of
Jessica Beil or Halle Berry's figure.

Eh, I prefer jessica alba or the chick from 'how i met your mother'

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Pssht I'm over feeling inadequate over stuff like that. Sure it bothers me that some people feel they have the right to speak up on something they know nothing about or will never have to face criticism for, but I don't feel any pressure or heat to change the way I look. This is not about some desperate need to fit in. I just feel like my status as someone who does have breast and a vagina might be more ( or profitable at all) profitable to a conversation about breast, over someone who has neither breast or a vaginaAs a woman who is not a Jessica or a Halle, I have to face these types of criticism.My opinion on it matters more than someone who will never face these criticisms. Now if I go to a picture of Lion-O and comment on his lack of bulge or w.e and then imply or state that he is less of a male, then I have way over stepped my bounds. I will never know what it's like to live with how other people feel about small dicks,so I really have no place talking about how un-manly someone is for have a small one.

Interestingly, your first correlation to boobs is..dicks. This is despite the fact that not all of them are genitalia and that it's fairly obvious to be able to see boobs on a clothed female than it is to see dick size on a clothed male. There's probably something freudian about this comparison....

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LOL, I'm not complaining about our nations BS standard of beauty or talking about how all it serves to do is fuel insecurites and inaduqecy in people from the moment they can comprehend what those things are, at least not in that particular post and not in this forum Please, don't feel obliged to give me the plain jane run down In no way am I asking for it, and I never meant for my post to imply that I need it. While I'm sure your advice is good natured, you have no business telling me how to deal with my hypothetical problem because you wont ever have to deal with my hypothetical problem. Now I wont drive to your home and stop you from talking about it, but I'm letting you know your opinion/advice wont be taken into consideration because you will never deal with this particular problem. Once again, the idea that you even think you can give me advice on how to handle it is way out there. I don't think my one forum post is going to change anything, and I never said it would. I'm not trying to change anything.

tldr; I'm female and you're not so don't come giving me advice.

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I have every right to talk about how disgusting his comment is. Just like he has the right to state his opinion. I don't need to find bitter people or whatever the hell you're talking about. Anywho it's not about that. All I'm saying is his opinions and criticism of breast are worthless. The fact that he thought it was even ok to comment on her lack of rack is just...no. He has no breast and will never be criticized about the way his breast look so...no. Coming from any gender it would be disgusting, but coming from someone who will never face criticism about it is a higher level of "just no".

Except he might have....manboobs. At which point, he WILL be criticised on how his breasts look.

CreepySariFan made a very specific argument: that DN was acting in such a negative way as a result of the car accident. He states it as if it was a fact and I merely pointed out that without actual evidence he is making a fallacious argument.

All I did was to say that DN was rather unprofessional in his handling of criticism and questions. Surely, that wasn’t very harsh?

So the excuse for his actions and comments is a car wreck? If that's the case than Norton needs to have his licence pulled because this guy must get into a car wreck at least once a day.

You're right Stac. The entire excuse that his reaction was due to a car wreck is fallacious. It's a dodge used to try and rationalize unrational actions. As such, the excuse falls apart as soon as it is spewed.
I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority of fans had no clue norton been in a wreck. Thankfully, not all fans are leghumping sycophants that worship the guys every fart.

And no, saying Norton was unprofessional was not very harsh of you. His personal attack dogs that troll this site and others will of course insist it was but that doesn't make it so. No, what you said was simply fact. That's why certain peolpe are having such a problem with it.

Until a bit after the Trials, Lion-O pretty much had it easy and a lot of leeway to do things anyway he wanted. There was little to no snap-back for his decisions even if they were stupid or risked the lives of the group. Even if there was, he just ignored or shrugged it off.

Pumyra seems to be the counterbalance since her snapping gets his attention and makes him stop to explain himself.

Gonna have to disagree with Lion-O having it easy and leeway. As was clearly shown from the very first episode, Tygra was constantly complaining and challenging him at every chance. Many times, so were Panthro and the Kittens. Even Cheetara spoke against him in a few episodes. I'd call that snap-back myself.

In the earlier portions of the show, yes, Lion-O did often disregard the opinions of others in times of duress but we saw his character grow slightly over time.

In my opinion, Pumyra seems more the tomboyish sister type to Lion-O than anything else. Given the personalities, it just seems that she is a better fit for Tygra than Lion-O.

His opinion on what makes a woman a woman is irrelevant and worthless. He is not a woman, he does not identify as a woman. He doesn't know what it's like to be a woman or to have his breast criticized for being too big , too small or the wrong shape, or whatever standards breast are held to. He can speak on it all day, but at the end of the day his opinion on breast should not be taken into consideration ( once again, HE doesn't have breast) so why bother commenting on her lack of rack? Male or female OP, the comment was stupid and offensive, but it's coming from someone who has no breast but obviously feels like he should toss in his two cents
I'm not trying to stop him from speaking out. I'm not going to drive to his house and stop him from posting or talking. All I'm saying is that he has no business speaking up on breast size and how it pertains to a woman being a woman.
It's personal, but not just. I am not the only woman who is sick of hearing about breast size, and about how the perfect figure must be a replica of
Jessica Beil or Halle Berry's figure.

Pssht I'm over feeling inadequate over stuff like that. Sure it bothers me that some people feel they have the right to speak up on something they know nothing about or will never have to face criticism for, but I don't feel any pressure or heat to change the way I look. This is not about some desperate need to fit in. I just feel like my status as someone who does have breast and a vagina might be more ( or profitable at all) profitable to a conversation about breast, over someone who has neither breast or a vaginaAs a woman who is not a Jessica or a Halle, I have to face these types of criticism.My opinion on it matters more than someone who will never face these criticisms. Now if I go to a picture of Lion-O and comment on his lack of bulge or w.e and then imply or state that he is less of a male, then I have way over stepped my bounds. I will never know what it's like to live with how other people feel about small dicks,so I really have no place talking about how un-manly someone is for have a small one.

LOL, I'm not complaining about our nations BS standard of beauty or talking about how all it serves to do is fuel insecurites and inaduqecy in people from the moment they can comprehend what those things are, at least not in that particular post and not in this forum Please, don't feel obliged to give me the plain jane run down In no way am I asking for it, and I never meant for my post to imply that I need it. While I'm sure your advice is good natured, you have no business telling me how to deal with my hypothetical problem because you wont ever have to deal with my hypothetical problem. Now I wont drive to your home and stop you from talking about it, but I'm letting you know your opinion/advice wont be taken into consideration because you will never deal with this particular problem. Once again, the idea that you even think you can give me advice on how to handle it is way out there. I don't think my one forum post is going to change anything, and I never said it would. I'm not trying to change anything.

I have every right to talk about how disgusting his comment is. Just like he has the right to state his opinion. I don't need to find bitter people or whatever the hell you're talking about. Anywho it's not about that. All I'm saying is his opinions and criticism of breast are worthless. The fact that he thought it was even ok to comment on her lack of rack is just...no. He has no breast and will never be criticized about the way his breast look so...no. Coming from any gender it would be disgusting, but coming from someone who will never face criticism about it is a higher level of "just no".

I don't see anything wrong with the way Dan handled it, but if it was so out of character then maybe his accident did have something to do with it. Once again, I really don't feel like he was in the wrong, so we'd just go in circles about that all day.

So the opinion of noted and famous male art critics concerning paintings and sculptures of the femal form should be considered "irrelevant and worthless" because those critics are not women? If your mentality is that because a man "doesn't know what it's like to be a woman" they can't opine about a womans figure than you have shown yourself to be nothing more than offensively sexist.

Beauty - as the old saying goes - lies in the eye of the beholder. It doesn't lie in the gender.

And Chique, you might want to re-educate yourself concerning human anatomy if you think men don't have breasts. Both men and women have them; they aren't gender specific. Your entire point falls apart because you seem to believe men don't have breasts. Allow me to explain since it seems you slept through science that school day.

All primates (and humans are primates) both male and female contain regions of the torso called breasts. In both genders, the breasts are located in the upper ventral area of said primates torso regions and are comprised of the same embryological tissue. The reason womens breasts are often more prominent than mens has to do with puberty and the fact that women begin to produce more estrogen than testosterone. This increased estrogen production is what causes womens breasts to develop more than mens.

I won't even go into Gynecomastia if you were obviously unaware of the male breast.

You also seem to believe men don't take heat/criticism for their physical appearance. Let's just save the debunking of that ignorance for another day shall we....

All in all Chique, you've shown very sexist and narrow-minded views concerning gender as well as a serious need for further education into basic human anatomy.

So the excuse for his actions and comments is a car wreck? If that's the case than Norton needs to have his licence pulled because this guy must get into a car wreck at least once a day.

You're right Stac. The entire excuse that his reaction was due to a car wreck is fallacious. It's a dodge used to try and rationalize unrational actions. As such, the excuse falls apart as soon as it is spewed.
I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority of fans had no clue norton been in a wreck. Thankfully, not all fans are leghumping sycophants that worship the guys every fart.

And no, saying Norton was unprofessional was not very harsh of you. His personal attack dogs that troll this site and others will of course insist it was but that doesn't make it so. No, what you said was simply fact. That's why certain peolpe are having such a problem with it.

I feel like every argument you make is completely facetious.

You say my arguments are are a fallacy. You're half right. I'm trying to appeal to the basic human emotions of sympathy 'cause I think the guy deserves a bit of a break, but tell me what's not logic about educating people about Dan's accident? That's not rhetoric either, seriously, tell me: why shouldn't I use Dan's accident to get people to stop being completely apathetic?

It should never matter that he was "unprofessional" this one time. Offending a few people shouldn't be something you think should end someone's career because you're such a spiteful human being.

The only reason I'm even replying to this post, is because it's clearly directed at myself and the arguments I've made on Dan's behalf, but you didn't even have the guts to reply me directly.

So the opinion of noted and famous male art critics concerning paintings and sculptures of the femal form should be considered "irrelevant and worthless" because those critics are not women? If your mentality is that because a man "doesn't know what it's like to be a woman" they can't opine about a womans figure than you have shown yourself to be nothing more than offensively sexist.

Beauty - as the old saying goes - lies in the eye of the beholder. It doesn't lie in the gender.

And Chique, you might want to re-educate yourself concerning human anatomy if you think men don't have breasts. Both men and women have them; they aren't gender specific. Your entire point falls apart because you seem to believe men don't have breasts. Allow me to explain since it seems you slept through science that school day.

All primates (and humans are primates) both male and female contain regions of the torso called breasts. In both genders, the breasts are located in the upper ventral area of said primates torso regions and are comprised of the same embryological tissue. The reason womens breasts are often more prominent than mens has to do with puberty and the fact that women begin to produce more estrogen than testosterone. This increased estrogen production is what causes womens breasts to develop more than mens.

I won't even go into Gynecomastia if you were obviously unaware of the male breast.

You also seem to believe men don't take heat/criticism for their physical appearance. Let's just save the debunking of that ignorance for another day shall we....

All in all Chique, you've shown very sexist and narrow-minded views concerning gender as well as a serious need for further education into basic human anatomy.

You missed the entire point of what I said. Either that or you're trolling.