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I'm not sure where exactly I stand on this. While I would never go out dressed as a sexy anything, if people are comfortable to do that, let them. Anyone who thinks someone is a 'slut' for wearing a short dress is an idiot anyway.

But, as llamas said, it is extremely annoying that, if you are having a last-minute panic and try to find a costume, you're faced with tons of sexy outfits...and maybe a nun outfit too. It would be nice if there were a bit more options! It's also pretty frustrating when you are trying to find costume ideas online, but can only find sexy versions, and not historically accurate ones.

I also tend to prefer more imaginative costumes anyway - its nice when people make an effort, instead of throwing on a french maid dress they found in Hallmark.

I basically agree with this.

Lines in the video like, "you can just be a nurse, you don't have to be a sexy nurse" kind of sum it all up for me. I kinda took the "keep your tits in" lines as there for humor. I love the part about cops: "never seen a cop with tits out. they don't do that." Yes, perhaps I do look down on laziness. Last year I didn't have a costume for Carnival, and the day before, I used a pack of cleaning towels, a cardboard box, some tape, and a green tshirt to make a TMNT costume. Took me like half an hour, and I got constant compliments on it being the best last-minute costume ever. It also cost me all of like 1€ to make. Elitist, though? I'd say the ones who blow money on dumb costumes are a bit more elite than the ones saving money by coming up with stuff on their own.

And T, I guess you haven't heard women complain about the selection at the stores, and how they're dressed "slutty" because every women's costume in the store is "slutty" and they had no other options - as they're dressed in those very costumes. Pretty sure the video here goes out directly to them. Men's costumes may also be of low quality, but it's a bit depressing as a woman to see that every Halloween costume made for you is a "slutty" version of something incredibly stupid - every Halloween costume exists to sexualize you, and yes it sucks that that's the world we live in.

Let's all keep in mind that I don't think that actually being "slutty" is a bad thing.

I don't really get Halloween. I didn't grow up with it and so it doesn't really mean anything to me. I've never worn a costume or gone to a real Halloween party. The whole thing feels very alien to me.

Seeing people in cool costumes is entertaining. I don't understand when or why the sexy thing started though. I thought the idea was to dress up as something scary and/or funny. Not that I mind. It's just odd.

Originally Posted by Llamas

"you can just be a nurse, you don't have to be a sexy nurse" kind of sum it all up for me.

But, surely then you'd just look like a nurse. I admit I don't intuitively "get" Halloween but I'm pretty sure it's not simply "dress up as a random profession" day. You could just be a nurse, but what would be the point of that? Though you could make an awesome/terrifying nurse costume, I suppose. Like something from Silent Hill.

I like this example because it's disturbing yet still sexualized. That sort of makes it more disturbing and potentially makes a statement too.

This non-sexualized version looks like an incredibly easy costume to put together and actually still looks pretty cool.

Originally Posted by Llamas

I love the part about cops: "never seen a cop with tits out. they don't do that."

Impersonating a police officer is a serious offence.

Originally Posted by Llamas

Men's costumes may also be of low quality, but it's a bit depressing as a woman to see that every Halloween costume made for you is a "slutty" version of something incredibly stupid - every Halloween costume exists to sexualize you, and yes it sucks that that's the world we live in.

So you aren't bothered by sexy costumes, you just wish they weren't quite so prevalent. Fair enough.

Branching off a little here, I think men often have trouble understanding what being objectified and sexualized feels like for a woman because, honestly, I would love to be objectified and sexualized and so would every guy I know. And it does happen, certainly. But when men are objectified nobody seems to think it's bad. There's a sense that it's creepy when men do it but it's just playful when women do it. And again, in my experience, most men like being objectified. So although I put a great deal of effort into forming "correct" opinions I struggle with the issue of objectifying women. I get that it possibly contributes to gender inequality, possibly in very serious ways, but I also personally love objectifying and sexualizing everybody and to me it doesn't feel creepy when I do it and everybody should feel free to do the same to me.

Ugh. I seem to be having trouble expressing my thoughts eloquently lately. But hopefully you get the idea.

Edit: Nieh wins.

Last edited by Paint_It_Black; 10-08-2013 at 07:51 AM.

“Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves.” – Bill Hicks

And T, I guess you haven't heard women complain about the selection at the stores, and how they're dressed "slutty" because every women's costume in the store is "slutty" and they had no other options - as they're dressed in those very costumes.

Originally Posted by T-6005

I won't disagree that the paucity of choice in Halloween costumes is complete garbage.

Like I said, I don't disagree with that. No question that the selection is shit, or that options are lacking. No question that slutty costumes far outnumber others, or that cats and nurses on Halloween far outnumber the real number of felines or trained medical professionals that are really out there.

Originally Posted by Paint_It_Black

I think men often have trouble understanding what being objectified and sexualized feels like for a woman because, honestly, I would love to be objectified and sexualized and so would every guy I know. And it does happen, certainly. But when men are objectified nobody seems to think it's bad.

There are definitely forms of objectification being applied to the male body and essentialized male 'modes of behavior' as well. Body-wise the pressure to conform to an ideal is far, far less than for women (I don't think anyone would argue otherwise, although that Men's rights thread might be a prime ground for that sort of claim). Having said that, it doesn't mean that it's disappeared - men do have idealized body types, whether they're muscular or rugged or skinny or whatever. Hell, look at the enormous cultural anxiety that men feel about penis size! That pressure is absolutely there, there's no question about it. But part of the reason - and I'll actually need a bit of leeway on this right now because I'm spitballing - why the pressure might not be as strong is because even in 2013 the idealized male goes beyond the body and into modes of behavior.

It's a strange transition, but it's not uncommon for people to automatically assume that as long as you're rich, or succcessful, or famous, that your looks fade in importance. These are quite often seen as even more important than conforming to the body image ideal, and unfortunately women don't even seem to have that same minimal flexibility yet. Not that it's a good thing either, but to not even have that?

Alright, I'm losing myself a little bit. Point is that objectification is almost more of a sex/gender problem than anything else. There are very subtle types of objectification and idealization that happen that are tagged to prototypical characteristics of both sexes in the binary. It's centrally the problem of having such an explosion of media content that accepts the centrality of that gender separation. Basing anything you create off that common element, you'll always end up with minimal variation and inflexibility. The ways that they are applied to men and women are different in both form and degree, but they are both extremely pervasive.

All this just to say to Richard - men are objectified. We're just objectified differently. But much like women, the types of objectification that we are subject to tend not to please us very much unless we closely fit the mold already.

All this just to say to Richard - men are objectified. We're just objectified differently.

Yeah, I was trying to say that too. In the bit you quoted, actually. Not sure if that came through or not. But it's rare to find anyone who takes objectification of men seriously. And again, most men I know enjoy being objectified. It is inherently complimentary, in a way, because we only objectify something we find to have value. Take sexual objectification. Most men I know would love to be sexually objectified, which can make it hard to understand why women tend not to enjoy it quite so much. I, of course, do understand the differences (to some degree at least) but I wanted to explain why some men may not be able to empathize so well with women who are tired of being objectified.

And of course it has to be viewed through the patriarchal lens as well.

“Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves.” – Bill Hicks

I just read a very sad article about male objectification and poor old d'angelo being treated like a piece of meat after "untitled". the song that launched a thousand pregnancies with its buttery smooth neo soul and all d'angelo gets is "take it offff!!"

I don't really get Halloween. I didn't grow up with it and so it doesn't really mean anything to me. I've never worn a costume or gone to a real Halloween party. The whole thing feels very alien to me.

Seeing people in cool costumes is entertaining. I don't understand when or why the sexy thing started though. I thought the idea was to dress up as something scary and/or funny. Not that I mind. It's just odd.

Halloween is starting to become a thing here (in addition to Carnival, which is much bigger and more fun here), and I've just seen some incredible costumes - crappy costumes like "slutty cat" and the like are kinda rare. I got pulled over last Carnival by a guy dressed as one of these speed radar machines on the sides of the highways here. Looked just like one of the machines, but walking toward me - and then plopped down right in front me, the "screen" was an opening to his face, and he called his friend over who was simply dressed as a cop, and they gave me a ticket for speeding :P That same night, I saw a group of five people wearing amazing homemade Power Rangers costumes... and a guy dressed as the "fuck yeah" meme guy. I guess that's the entire point to me - coming up with creative costumes that people will enjoy and talk about. Otherwise, I also see no point.

But, surely then you'd just look like a nurse. I admit I don't intuitively "get" Halloween but I'm pretty sure it's not simply "dress up as a random profession" day. You could just be a nurse, but what would be the point of that? Though you could make an awesome/terrifying nurse costume, I suppose. Like something from Silent Hill.

Nah, I fully agree - just a nurse is as boring as a sexy nurse. But you could do a lot with a nurse costume and make it a lot of fun. Not much you can do with a "slutty nurse" costume.

So you aren't bothered by sexy costumes, you just wish they weren't quite so prevalent. Fair enough.

Right. Again, they're not prevalent here, but every Halloween party I've been to in the US was full of them, and my Facebook page will have plenty of them in a few weeks... along with plenty of people complaining about their lack of options at the store.

Branching off a little here, I think men often have trouble understanding what being objectified and sexualized feels like for a woman because, honestly, I would love to be objectified and sexualized and so would every guy I know. And it does happen, certainly. But when men are objectified nobody seems to think it's bad. There's a sense that it's creepy when men do it but it's just playful when women do it. And again, in my experience, most men like being objectified. So although I put a great deal of effort into forming "correct" opinions I struggle with the issue of objectifying women. I get that it possibly contributes to gender inequality, possibly in very serious ways, but I also personally love objectifying and sexualizing everybody and to me it doesn't feel creepy when I do it and everybody should feel free to do the same to me.

Yeah, I understand that. Men do get objectified, but not nearly as often (someone said earlier that a man can become famous without being attractive, but women still struggle in that regard - very true), and without the same undertones. Men can be sexualized and objectified and not be afraid of being raped. Yes, men do get raped, but they're generally a lot more able to defend themselves, and it's simply much less common. Plus, generally speaking, men aren't pressured by society so much to believe that being physically attractive to attract the right mate is the most important thing in life. Now, men are certainly pressured to be financially successful to attract the right physically attractive mate, which is a negative thing for men, but they are free from the physically attractive part.

It'd be ideal of people could be sexualized and objectified without all the negativity; there's nothing inherently wrong with it, as I said I don't mind sexy costumes if someone so chooses to wear them, but there are various ideas on how to get rid of the negative undertones, and I think a place to start would be women not just accepting whatever's offered in the stores for costumes.

Originally Posted by T-6005

There are definitely forms of objectification being applied to the male body and essentialized male 'modes of behavior' as well. Body-wise the pressure to conform to an ideal is far, far less than for women (I don't think anyone would argue otherwise, although that Men's rights thread might be a prime ground for that sort of claim). Having said that, it doesn't mean that it's disappeared - men do have idealized body types, whether they're muscular or rugged or skinny or whatever. Hell, look at the enormous cultural anxiety that men feel about penis size! That pressure is absolutely there, there's no question about it. But part of the reason - and I'll actually need a bit of leeway on this right now because I'm spitballing - why the pressure might not be as strong is because even in 2013 the idealized male goes beyond the body and into modes of behavior.

You are right about penis size, but that pressure actually seems to come from men, not from women. I've never met a woman who viewed a man more negatively, or turned him away because of penis size. In fact, women I know don't even talk about that, but rather how good the sex is, which doesn't really have much to do with size. Men seem to be the ones who are concerned with how their penis size compares with others', and thus it is not coming from one group (women) doing it to the other (men).

It's a strange transition, but it's not uncommon for people to automatically assume that as long as you're rich, or succcessful, or famous, that your looks fade in importance. These are quite often seen as even more important than conforming to the body image ideal, and unfortunately women don't even seem to have that same minimal flexibility yet. Not that it's a good thing either, but to not even have that?

Ah, there it is.

Originally Posted by calichix

the one that makes me hurl is "sexy baby". cmannnnnn!

....what on earth is that? Do I even want to know?

I just read a very sad article about male objectification and poor old d'angelo being treated like a piece of meat after "untitled". the song that launched a thousand pregnancies with its buttery smooth neo soul and all d'angelo gets is "take it offff!!"

That same night, I saw a group of five people wearing amazing homemade Power Rangers costumes... and a guy dressed as the "fuck yeah" meme guy.

I'd rather see a million sexy nurses over one meme costume, get that shit outta here. Power Ranger costumes are good stuff though.

Originally Posted by Llamas

Nah, I fully agree - just a nurse is as boring as a sexy nurse. But you could do a lot with a nurse costume and make it a lot of fun. Not much you can do with a "slutty nurse" costume.

Sure there is, like the Silent Hill costume. I'm gonna have to ask for some examples of things you can do with a regular nurse costume that you can't do with a sexy nurse costume, because I can't think of any.

I see justification for why one would think shitty pre-made costumes are shitty and I agree. But, if you think all pre-made effortless costumes suck, what have sexy costumes got to do with anything, you know? If they're just gonna go buy some cheap, boring, garbage outfit anyway, what does it matter if it's a little skimpy?

Of course, I do agree that there should be a larger selection of more modest costumes and that there is likely correlation between the majority of pre-made costumes and our societies view on women. I was just looking at Party City's costumes briefly and they had a shamefully small amount of 'non-sexy' superhero costumes for women, pretty balls.

I went to a party once where a couple of girls just wore lingerie. It was a Halloween party, not an underwear party or anything. I also remember a girl with lingerie and cat ears, that was a different Halloween party though, I'm pretty sure.