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I mean you've got games like Tabula Rasa shutting down completely, and others going bankrupt like CoSB and yet Istaria has survived the test of time thus far.

This game must have something going for it eh?

A bit.

In the beginning there was UO and EQ, the "first generation" MMOs; and by 1999 these two MMOs showed that the genera was profitable - if you kept a good eye on production costs (and stopped upper management from buying houses on investor dollars).

Then WoW happened 2004 with a huge production budget and eventually 11+ million subscribers, which started what I call the "theme park era" and the industry refers to as "current generation". Since about 2006 all anyone can do is spend *way* too much money on IP, concept art, graphic engines that require a $500 video card to run smoothly (to show off all that concept art) and try to clone WoW.

Well, between 2000 and 2004 there was a couple years I like to call the "virtual world era" and the industry refers to as "second generation", where folks knew an MMO could make money and all they needed was about 100,000 subscribers to be termed a huge success and make the investors happy. Due to this the focus was less on IP and fancy graphics and more on innovative game-play elements such as Istaria's playable races, building systems, and crafting, Shadowbane's playable races, building systems, and PvP, DAOC's 'RvR', Eve Online's PvP and crafting, and Asheron's Call's 'allegiance system'.

Of these 'second generation' MMOs, about half are still running - owing mostly to their much lower requirements to remain profitable and having paid off their investors and publishers years ago. AC died early mostly due to Microsoft and Shadowbane finally closed about two weeks ago.

The big draw for these older MMOs seems to stem from the immersive nature of their world designs; in most you can actually build and own something that other players can see (and use / destroy) and in all of them your adventure isn't on rails as it is in current generation MMOs. These are also older games which attracted their user-base 5-ish years ago, so they tend to be an older more mature group and less prone to John Gabriel's Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory. (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19/)

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In a way I HATE wow because it has completely "dumbed down" the entire mmorpg market. So many companies are trying to copy wow, and as a result turn out as bad as the original. However in a way wow now acts as a filter. little bnet kiddes go in, and they seldom come out. It's almost a maturity filter for the rest of the games out there now.

As to how this game is still alive? I just discovered it NOW of all times and am becoming a subscriber. It's so anti-wow I HAVE to support it. It's my moral duty.

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Originally posted by lordpenquin

In a way I HATE wow because it has completely "dumbed down" the entire mmorpg market. So many companies are trying to copy wow, and as a result turn out as bad as the original. However in a way wow now acts as a filter. little bnet kiddes go in, and they seldom come out. It's almost a maturity filter for the rest of the games out there now.

As to how this game is still alive? I just discovered it NOW of all times and am becoming a subscriber. It's so anti-wow I HAVE to support it. It's my moral duty.

Well, it all depends on how you look at it...

Yes, WoW has lowered the bar for entry into the MMO space, much like AOL lowered the bar for entry into the Internet - which is refered to as "The Eternal September" by folks old enough to remember it.

But, there's always at least two ways to look at something and, while I personally am not what one would call a fan of WoW, it can be very fun (like saturday morning cartoons) and I can see where it has it's uses...

Think of WoW as pre-school; it makes entry into the school system very easy, gets kids used to a communal system where everyone has a common goal, and starts to teach them the basics in a nice, safe, walled-in environment. It also has all of the associated 'hard knocks' of bullies, name calling, rock throwing, and other associated down-sides of putting a lot of kids into one playground with little to no supervision.

Later, a select few graduate through the ranks and start looking for college-level MMOs; things with huge learning curves and complex gameplay, games that don't coddle the weak like Eve Online or Shadowbane (rest in peace my friend) or games that offer more than 'theme park' rails like Istaria.

In this way WoW opens the doors to folks that would have never tried an MMO, and for that we have to appreciate it's place in the grand scheme of things when the one out of a million enrolls in a better game. :)

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Originally posted by Deleted User

Originally posted by lordpenquin

In a way I HATE wow because it has completely "dumbed down" the entire mmorpg market. So many companies are trying to copy wow, and as a result turn out as bad as the original. However in a way wow now acts as a filter. little bnet kiddes go in, and they seldom come out. It's almost a maturity filter for the rest of the games out there now.

As to how this game is still alive? I just discovered it NOW of all times and am becoming a subscriber. It's so anti-wow I HAVE to support it. It's my moral duty.

Well, it all depends on how you look at it...

Yes, WoW has lowered the bar for entry into the MMO space, much like AOL lowered the bar for entry into the Internet - which is refered to as "The Eternal September" by folks old enough to remember it.

But, there's always at least two ways to look at something and, while I personally am not what one would call a fan of WoW, it can be very fun (like saturday morning cartoons) and I can see where it has it's uses...

Think of WoW as pre-school; it makes entry into the school system very easy, gets kids used to a communal system where everyone has a common goal, and starts to teach them the basics in a nice, safe, walled-in environment. It also has all of the associated 'hard knocks' of bullies, name calling, rock throwing, and other associated down-sides of putting a lot of kids into one playground with little to no supervision.

Later, a select few graduate through the ranks and start looking for college-level MMOs; things with huge learning curves and complex gameplay, games that don't coddle the weak like Eve Online or Shadowbane (rest in peace my friend) or games that offer more than 'theme park' rails like Istaria.

In this way WoW opens the doors to folks that would have never tried an MMO, and for that we have to appreciate it's place in the grand scheme of things when the one out of a million enrolls in a better game. :)

That is a great take on WoW actually. The first MMO I ever played was RuneScape, and that was around 9 years ago. I played WoW on and off but I've always been the type of gamer that wants a very in-depth and unique experience. Thats when I found Istaria. The in-depthness of the crafting system amazes me. I love having to go through steps to receive a finished result, it just makes that item so much more valuble because you had to put a lot of work into it. I also like how everything isn't hotkeys and macros; I have to open up a dialouge box, read the dialouge box, and choose what I want to choose. When I receive a quest, I don't have arrows telling me exactly where to go. Instead, I have to search around a bit, maybe even ask someone in the world chat.

I don't think gamers have lowered the bar when it comes to MMOs, but we've become so used to everything being layed out in front of us that when we can't find what we're looking for, we simply give up. What most people don't understand, is that an MMO is about gameplay, level of depthness, community, and uniqueness. Its not that WoW isn't unique -- in fact, it was so unique that it changed the MMO market forever -- but WoW just doesn't have the same gameplay and level of depthness that classic sandbox-like games such as UO or EVE do.

But I LOVE your comparison, and you're right: there are some people who will "graduate" from WoW and realize that its an introduction to a world to MMOs that are far more unique. And hey, for the ones who think WoW is the only way to go, they're the ones missing out!