Originally posted by dozeer
why would you want to raise to chase the fish out of the pot?

you do realise he bet just 3bb into 13 on the flop ?

My bad, totally misread the action, didn't notice it was the fish donking. In that case, sure raising can be better.

Not 3betting preflop is still horrible though.

value of playing with fish >>> value from worse calling hands from the regs. Fish is gonna make way more mistakes in a single-raised pot and if the reg decides to 4-bet, you aren't exactly gonna be thrilled.

Originally posted by dozeer
why would you want to raise to chase the fish out of the pot?

you do realise he bet just 3bb into 13 on the flop ?

My bad, totally misread the action, didn't notice it was the fish donking. In that case, sure raising can be better.

Not 3betting preflop is still horrible though.

value of playing with fish >>> value from worse calling hands from the regs. Fish is gonna make way more mistakes in a single-raised pot and if the reg decides to 4-bet, you aren't exactly gonna be thrilled.

How do you define "value" here? What makes you think that it's better to flat OOP getting bad odds, not even having relative position. It still might be plus EV, but 3betting has got to be higher. Wouldn't you agree that there is absolutely no reason to have a SB flatting range vs a 4x open?

How are you going to get this value from the fish exactly? You still miss most of the time, it's difficult to figure out what you should be doing when you do flop something (because reasonable players don't have a flatting range in that spot). And, the most important thing, it's really difficult to win pots when you miss in that spot.

Is this "value of playing vs a fish" hoping for that dream scenario, where the fish has A3, you both hit TP, the reg bricks, and you somehow get two bets out of the fish?

Also, why are you so sure that the fish doesn't coldcall a 3bet? Why do you think we should be worried about the reg 4betting? We really only are thrilled to get 4bet when we have AA or KK, should that mean that we never 3bet anything less than that? Obviously AQs is not going to be in your folding range vs 4bets in those positions. Not to mention that people don't really fold to 3bets, mostly defend by calling a pretty wide range and AQs kind of happens to be really good.

I would really, really like to know, what this "value of playing vs the fish" is all about in a spot that is incredibly difficult to play (3 way pot oop), and why we would choose that option instead of making the play that is clearly higher EV (havent done the math, but has to be, considering how much more often you win when you 3bet) and clearly better for our range and falls within our overall gameplan.

Good players flat here with all their monsters so your range is not ucapped here. U can always lead flop when u do hit and also wsometimes w backdoor equity. Reg is also forced to play very honest on many flop textures w threeway dynamic and fish in hand.