Ok, I read this article today in the New York Times I was was really fascinated. It's insanely long so I'll just post some excepts and a link. If anyone really wants the whole thing, I guess I could edit, but this artile took up more than a page in newsprint.

On the Web, Pedophiles Extend Their Reach
By KURT EICHENWALD
Published: August 21, 2006

At first blush, the two conversations — taking place almost simultaneously in different corners of the Internet — might have seemed unremarkable, even humdrum.

In April, with summer fast approaching, both groups of online friends chatted about jobs at children’s camps. Did anyone, one man asked, know of girls’ camps willing to hire adult males as counselors? Meanwhile, elsewhere in cyberspace, the second group celebrated the news that one of their own had been offered a job leading a boys’ cabin at a sleep-away camp.

But participants in the conversation did not focus on the work. “Hope you see some naked boys in your cabin,” a man calling himself PPC responded. “And good luck while restraining yourself from doing anything.”

The two groups were made up of self-proclaimed pedophiles — one attracted to under-age girls, the other to boys. Their dialogue runs at all hours in an array of chat rooms, bulletin boards and Web sites set up for adults attracted to children.

But it is no longer just chatter in the ether. What started online almost two decades ago as a means of swapping child pornography has transformed in recent years into a more complex and diversified community that uses the virtual world to advance its interests in the real one.

Today, pedophiles go online to seek tips for getting near children — at camps, through foster care, at community gatherings and at countless other events. They swap stories about day-to-day encounters with minors. And they make use of technology to help take their arguments to others, like sharing online a printable booklet to be distributed to children that extols the benefits of sex with adults.

The community’s online infrastructure is surprisingly elaborate. There are Internet radio stations run by and for pedophiles; a putative charity that raised money to send Eastern European children to a camp where they were apparently visited by pedophiles; and an online jewelry company that markets pendants proclaiming the wearer as being sexually attracted to children, allowing anyone in the know to recognize them.

These were the findings of a four-month effort by The New York Times to learn about the pedophiles’ online world by delving into their Internet communications. In recent months, new concerns have emerged about whether the ubiquitous nature of broadband technology, instant message communications and digital imagery is presenting new and poorly understood risks to children. Already, there have been many Congressional hearings on the topic, as well as efforts to write comprehensive legislation to address the issue.

But most of those efforts have focused on examining particular instances of harm to children. There have been few, if any, recent attempts to examine the pedophiles themselves, based on their own words to one another, to gain a better recognition of the nature of potential problems.

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The recent conversations among pedophiles that were examined by The Times took place in virtual rooms in Internet Relay Chat, a text-based system allowing for real-time communications; on message boards on Usenet, which has postings by topic; and on Web sites catering to pedophiles.

In this online community, pedophiles view themselves as the vanguard of a nascent movement seeking legalization of child pornography and the loosening of age-of-consent laws. They portray themselves as battling for children’s rights to engage in sex with adults, a fight they liken to the civil rights movement. And while their effort has brought little success, they celebrated online in May when a small group of men in the Netherlands formed a pedophile political party, and they rejoiced again last month when a Dutch court upheld the party’s right to exist.

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“It is rationalization that allows them to avoid admitting that their desires are harmful and illegal,” said Bill Walsh, a former commander of the Crimes Against Children Unit for the Dallas Police Department, who founded the most prominent annual national conference on the issue. “That can allow them to take that final step and cross over from fantasy into real-world offenses.”

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In the conversations observed by The Times, the pedophiles often discussed their personal lives. Their individual jobs were described as being a disc jockey at parties (“a high concentration of gorgeous” children, a man claiming to hold the job said); a pediatric nurse (“lots of looking but no touching”); a piano teacher (“I could tell you stories that would make you ...well... I’ll be good”); an employee at a water theme park (“bathing suits upon bathing suits!!!!!”); and a pediatrician specializing in gynecology (“No need to add anything more, I feel”).

The most frequent job mentioned, however, was schoolteacher. A number of self-described teachers shared detailed observations about children in their classes, including events they considered sexual, like a second-grade boy holding his crotch during class.

The man relating that story held up that action as an expression of sexuality; he was not dissuaded when another participant in the conversation suggested that the boy might have just needed to go to the bathroom.

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In the pedophiles’ world view, not all sexual abuse is abuse. There is widespread condemnation and hatred of adults who engage in forcible rape of children. But otherwise, acts of molestation are often celebrated as demonstrations of love.

“My daughter and I have a healthy close relationship,” a person with the screen name Sonali posted. “We have been in a ‘consensual sexual relationship’ almost two months now.”

The daughter, Sonali wrote, is 10. Whatever guilt Sonali felt for the relationship was eased by the postings of other pedophiles. “I am so happy to find this site,” Sonali wrote. “I thought having a sexual attraction to my daughter was bad. I now do not feel guilty or conflicted.”

In that, Sonali was demonstrating what experts said is the most dangerous element of the pedophile Internet community: its justification of illegal acts. Experts described the pedophiles’ online worldview as reflective of “neutralization,” a psychological rationalization used by groups that deviate from societal norms.

In essence, the groups deem potentially injurious acts and beliefs harmless. That is accomplished in part by denying that a victim is injured, condemning critics and appealing to higher loyalties — in this case, an ostensible struggle for the sexual freedom of children.

Pedophiles see themselves as part of a social movement to gain acceptance of their attractions. The effort has a number of tenets: that pedophiles are beneficial to minors, that children are psychologically capable of consenting and that therapists manipulate the young into believing they are harmed by such encounters.

“Every human being, no matter the age, should be allowed to have consenting mutual sexual relations with anyone they wish,” a man calling himself Venn wrote. “All age of consent laws must, and forever, be abolished.”

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That same logic is applied by the pedophiles to child pornography, which many of them said should be legalized. “Where is the problem?” from child pornography, a pedophile who used the screen name Writer said in an online posting. “Once again, the underlying issue is the repressive belief that sex is intrinsically sinful.”

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A Web of Deception

The booklet — recently circulated through a Web site for pedophiles — had been written, it said, “for any boy who is old enough to be able to read it.”

Called “Straight Talk for Boys,” it is an 18-page discussion of sex, particularly between children and adults, from the pedophiles’ viewpoint. Such encounters are depicted as harmless, even beneficial. The document criticizes parents and therapists. And it encourages boys to wear Speedo bathing suits and shower naked in public places.

But it repeatedly returns to one message: boys should never tell about sex with adults. “Older boys and men may be frightened about getting caught having sex play with you, because they can be put in jail,” it says. “So you have to think of ways to ‘signal’ your interest in another person without openly saying what you want,” adding that “nobody else can know about what you agree to do.”

The booklet comes with instructions, advising pedophiles on how to distribute it. “The best and safest way is to leave quantities of the booklet in places where boys in the 8 to 14 range can find them, and where adults will not discover them too quickly,” the instructions read. “Obviously, you don’t want to be observed placing the booklets in your chosen locations.”

The booklet reflects how pedophiles can use the Internet to advance their interests in the real world. Like many of those efforts, this one involved deception: the booklet does not reveal, for example, that it has been written and distributed by men who are sexually attracted to children, but instead portrays itself as objective fact.

Using deception to gain access to children is a recurring theme. For example, on a site for adults attracted to boys, someone calling himself Vespucci asked in June whether a single man could become a foster father. The respondents cautioned Vespucci to disguise his pedophilia.

“You better have a darned good excuse why you never married, such as your fiancée died in a car wreck,” replied a man calling himself simply “d.” “I highly recommend you date women for several years and keep at least a couple of those relationships going for at least a couple of months. Around the women, make a point of being nice to children.”

The deception would be worthwhile, d wrote. “It will help out in the reference-check dept. when you apply.”

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With the chat rooms, radio stations and other organizations, pedophiles’ views are continually reinforced. But some realize that this online echo chamber can warp reality. For example, a man calling himself AtosW reported to fellow pedophiles that he had been chatting on a game site frequented by boys. A conversation began about the Dutch pedophile party, AtosW said, and the minors reacted with threats of violence.

AtosW was perplexed. “Why are posters THAT young so angry about it?” he asked. “It is after all THEIR rights that they are pushing for.”

A man calling himself Ritter responded. “Your post is a typical example of what happens when you spend too much time in the online BL [My edit: boy love] community,” he wrote. “Believe it or not, most young children are NOT anxious to have sex with adult men.”

Again, sorry that's so long. As I was reading this, I couldn't help but feel a bit conflicted. Everyone has their own fetish, something that does it for them. Only, for these people the thing that does it for them is not able to consent (though I suppose they are trying to argue otherwise). I actually feel bad for them in that I would willingly deny them the thing they find attractive. It's not their fault that they feel that way, but I don't care.

So in my hypothetical world where pedophiles can't sleep with kids, is there anything they can do to have a satisfying sex life? I mean, Porn is pretty much out of the question, since a child couldn't consent to that. Perhaps a virtual reality program? Is it acceptable to make such a program (though I suppose a number of Hentai games have very similar themes)? In any case, I thought it was a good article if only because it made me think._________________Scire aliquid laus est, pudor est non discere velle
"It is laudable to know something, it is disgraceful to not want to learn"
~Seneca

Now that I've finished gagging, this is the ultimate in rationalization for a horrific crime against children. Frankly i hope now that its out, the FBI does its job, investigates these people and puts them in prison. Forced sexualization of children kills so much of their innocence, and flushes so much of their childhood down the drain.

I come at this speaking as a victim of this kind of manipulation, and frankly, yeah, i hope and pray that when these kids are older they take a gun to whoever did that to them. The long term effects can be horrific, In my case they lead to panic attacks 13 years later when im placed in any sort of sexual situation outside a very wide comfort bubble. The whole concept makes me so angry i feel sick to my stomach, and those who perpetrate it on the most vulnerable members of our society, our children, deserve the worst kind of torment and death.

Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 5:35 am Post subject: what the fuck is the quote what breaches upon justice

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Called “Straight Talk for Boys,” it is an 18-page discussion of sex, particularly between children and adults, from the pedophiles’ viewpoint. Such encounters are depicted as harmless, even beneficial. The document criticizes parents and therapists. And it encourages boys to wear Speedo bathing suits and shower naked in public places.

But it repeatedly returns to one message: boys should never tell about sex with adults.

Man, it's the same as it ever was, pathetic. This sort of thing just makes it easier for FBI to label pedophiles. The internet really isn't that safe, people. The only reason they haven't busted in on them is because they don't have actual proof that they've done anything wrong yet.

Maybe the Ez-Pedo crowd would have an easier time pitching their social agenda if it weren't documentable that the activity routinely fucks the minds of the children involved.

If the happy fuzzy examples of 'consensual' adult-child relationships were really such a nice thing to have around, why would even the 'permissive' and 'productive' relationships reliably produce shit like post-trauma, panic disorders, and full-out mental illnesses a la borderline personalities?

Egads, the mind boggles.

The mental impact entirely aside, why are they so reliably creepy even when they try to 'play it straight' to an audience? Their 'advice' is completely creephat even without the context of complete sexual deviance.

ATTENTION GIRLS 18-26: Remember to wear tight, lacy underwear and shower naked in easily-viewed locations Come on up to my place sometime, but don't tell anyone! Would someone please distribute this 'straight talk for hotties' brochure somewhere where family members won't find it? Perhaps the tampon dispenser in the local graduate school.

A computer expert in Great Britain has been told to “be prepared, at least, for a prison sentence”. His crime? He scanned photographs of adult porn stars into his computer, and photomanipulated them to reduce the size of their breasts and add schoolgirl costumes. Again...pictures *of adults* photoshopped. No actual children involved, and no one is asserting otherwise.

He pled guilty after being told "a pseudophotograph of a child is defined as an image, whether made by computer graphics or otherwise, which appears to be that of a child. Such an image is treated in law as showing a child even if some of the physical characteristics are those of an adult. "

At an earlier court hearing, even the judge the analogy of a “tarts and vicars” party...would photos from women at such an event be considered child pornography?
(Note: I originally found the link from a Second Life member's blog where they were discussing related issues as they are related to Second Life. A notable quote from that blogpost: I can't help thinking that his offence pales into insignificance next to the sort of activity that happens in SL. )

ATTENTION GIRLS 18-26: Remember to wear tight, lacy underwear and shower naked in easily-viewed locations Come on up to my place sometime, but don't tell anyone! Would someone please distribute this 'straight talk for hotties' brochure somewhere where family members won't find it? Perhaps the tampon dispenser in the local graduate school.

Awww.. I'm too old to answer your ad.

Anyway, there is this question on OKCupid where it asks: Would you leave an otherwise perfect relationship if you found out your partner was interested in children sexually? My answer is the Mandatory Yes. I HAVE KIDS. Of course I would leave someone who was interested in children sexually! WHY IS THIS QUESTION EVEN ON THERE? Are there enough pedos out there that this question is even something to consider? I mean, in my book, finding out your partner is interested in molesting children is a pretty automatic dealbreaker. There are people out there who don't think it is? Really? This world is far nuttier than I'd like it to be some times. Also, this article continues to make me frightened for my own children. But there's really not much you can do besides try and do the best you can for them. And inform your kids about safety, about boundaries, and foster a relationship where they feel they can tell you the hard stuff._________________A person's character is their destiny.

Reminds me of the story of that porn site that got busted that featured a lot of consensual mock-rapes and women dressing up in schoolgirl costumes that had the porn industry divided, on wether to stand up for that site which was technically speaking, defendable as legit, but on the other side to let that side take the fall as being on of the more excessive sites.

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So in my hypothetical world where pedophiles can't sleep with kids, is there anything they can do to have a satisfying sex life? I mean, Porn is pretty much out of the question, since a child couldn't consent to that.

Well the people in the pedophile party would say it's consensual..just not lawful. And there's always the Japanese hentai industry for all their needs.

I'm surprised people don't make a fuss about that yet. Cuz damn, Japanese people are really perverted.

Only, for these people the thing that does it for them is not able to consent (though I suppose they are trying to argue otherwise). I actually feel bad for them in that I would willingly deny them the thing they find attractive. It's not their fault that they feel that way
<snip>
So in my hypothetical world where pedophiles can't sleep with kids, is there anything they can do to have a satisfying sex life?

the bottom line is, these people are sick. maybe they do fall into a range of sexual behaviors that there is some biological programming, maybe it isn't their fault - but i suspect that they have some psychological problems that leads them to have such an overwhelming attraction to children. fetishes are one thing - but when you risk harming someone, that's out of bounds. so i guess i would say the answer is, we have to find a way to cure the desire to have sex with children.

unless we can work out the whole robotic sex-slave thing._________________aka: neverscared!

unfortunately, despite many years of research, it seems the only way to 'cure' pedophilia is to a) teach coping strategies for pedophiles to manage their sexual feelings towards children in a healthy way or b) to remove their sexual desire altogether, through chemical castration or other means.