With due respect to other posters, am I the only one who really is getting to the point of "who cares" anymore? While I realize that the sport needs a porch sweeping, I'm getting callous to all this. No name shocks me anymore, its getting so common. Likely not going anyway anytime soon as science now can mask AAS.

Now when someone tests negative, thats when a thread should be started

With due respect to other posters, am I the only one who really is getting to the point of "who cares" anymore?

I'm right there with you. I used to be one of those "WE NEED A CLEAN GAME" guys, but over the past 5 years i've slowly come to the realization that the game has never been clean(whether it be HGH, roids, greenies or something else), and will never be clean. If baseball manages to get rid of steroids and HGH, the players will move onto the next thing(as most already have). I'm not saying don't test, and don't try to clean up the game. I'm saying it's a futile effort(albiet a noble one) and nieve to think the game was actually ever clean to begin with.

With due respect to other posters, am I the only one who really is getting to the point of "who cares" anymore? While I realize that the sport needs a porch sweeping, I'm getting callous to all this. No name shocks me anymore, its getting so common. Likely not going anyway anytime soon as science now can mask AAS.

Now when someone tests negative, thats when a thread should be started

No, you are not the only one, there's a lot more who think like you as well.

I'm right there with you. I used to be one of those "WE NEED A CLEAN GAME" guys, but over the past 5 years i've slowly come to the realization that the game has never been clean(whether it be HGH, roids, greenies or something else), and will never be clean. If baseball manages to get rid of steroids and HGH, the players will move onto the next thing(as most already have). I'm not saying don't test, and don't try to clean up the game. I'm saying it's a futile effort(albiet a noble one) and nieve to think the game was actually ever clean to begin with.

I'm right there with you. I used to be one of those "WE NEED A CLEAN GAME" guys, but over the past 5 years i've slowly come to the realization that the game has never been clean(whether it be HGH, roids, greenies or something else), and will never be clean. If baseball manages to get rid of steroids and HGH, the players will move onto the next thing(as most already have). I'm not saying don't test, and don't try to clean up the game. I'm saying it's a futile effort(albiet a noble one) and nieve to think the game was actually ever clean to begin with.

I'm a pretty cynical person but for the millionth time I find it difficult to compare what was done in the past with what is being done now. The technology is just light years ahead of anything the old timers might have had access to. I also get tired of trying to argue that amphetamine use over time does not enhance anybody's performance at anything. Still, I can't say I blame or begrudge you your strong opinion on the subject. PED's in sports is making all of us cynical.

I'm right there with you. I used to be one of those "WE NEED A CLEAN GAME" guys, but over the past 5 years i've slowly come to the realization that the game has never been clean(whether it be HGH, roids, greenies or something else), and will never be clean. If baseball manages to get rid of steroids and HGH, the players will move onto the next thing(as most already have). I'm not saying don't test, and don't try to clean up the game. I'm saying it's a futile effort(albiet a noble one) and nieve to think the game was actually ever clean to begin with.

There's a BIG difference between "completely clean" and "not a science experiment.

Probably didn't, and should be in the hall of fame i agree. But i honestly can't say one way or the other with 100% certainty. I wasn't in that locker room with him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sullythered

There's a BIG difference between "completely clean" and "not a science experiment.

Never said there wasn't, but i think drugs in the 60s and 70s played a much larger role than some. People poo-poo amphetamines like they weren't a factor, but decry HGH, when the roles they play are not that different.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SI1020

I'm a pretty cynical person but for the millionth time I find it difficult to compare what was done in the past with what is being done now.

I'm not trying to compare, saying both are equally bad(they aren't even close, IMO), but i think drugs in the past played a bigger role than many want to admit.

I'm right there with you. I used to be one of those "WE NEED A CLEAN GAME" guys, but over the past 5 years i've slowly come to the realization that the game has never been clean(whether it be HGH, roids, greenies or something else), and will never be clean. If baseball manages to get rid of steroids and HGH, the players will move onto the next thing(as most already have). I'm not saying don't test, and don't try to clean up the game. I'm saying it's a futile effort(albiet a noble one) and nieve to think the game was actually ever clean to begin with.

Sadly, I'm in the same spot as well. When you've got a bunch of highly competitive guys getting their one shot at fame and money, they're going to do what they have to either to get ahead or keep up. The technology may have changed, but the intent has been the same since the days of vaseline under baseball caps, sign stealing, etc.

Testing isn't going to stop this either. The scientists will always be able to stay one step ahead of the testing, and both players and labs will eventually get smart enough so the product can't be traced back to the users in case of federal raids.

Probably didn't, and should be in the hall of fame i agree. But i honestly can't say one way or the other with 100% certainty. I wasn't in that locker room with him.

Never said there wasn't, but i think drugs in the 60s and 70s played a much larger role than some. People poo-poo amphetamines like they weren't a factor, but decry HGH, when the roles they play are not that different.

I'm not trying to compare, saying both are equally bad(they aren't even close, IMO), but i think drugs in the past played a bigger role than many want to admit.

With due respect to other posters, am I the only one who really is getting to the point of "who cares" anymore? While I realize that the sport needs a porch sweeping, I'm getting callous to all this. No name shocks me anymore, its getting so common. Likely not going anyway anytime soon as science now can mask AAS.

Now when someone tests negative, thats when a thread should be started

I don't think you're the only one who doesn't care anymore. But even many people who don't care want their sports to be clean, except perhaps football, where no one seems to care. The public may be inured to the so much performance-enhancing drug use that goes way beyond stimulants, but the public is less likely to support baseball if the drugs are part of the fabric of the game.

I don't think you're the only one who doesn't care anymore. But even many people who don't care want their sports to be clean, except perhaps football, where no one seems to care. The public may be inured to the so much performance-enhancing drug use that goes way beyond stimulants, but the public is less likely to support baseball if the drugs are part of the fabric of the game.

I really don't know what to think these days as like I said, PED's are here to stay. Maybe its the game evolving....maybe its because as a gym owner I see the face of steroids everyday as many my members use them. Look at Babe Ruth, hell he swatted homers left and right and his nutritional menu was hot dogs and beer. Imagine the Baberino on gear.....

I don't think you're the only one who doesn't care anymore. But even many people who don't care want their sports to be clean, except perhaps football, where no one seems to care. The public may be inured to the so much performance-enhancing drug use that goes way beyond stimulants, but the public is less likely to support baseball if the drugs are part of the fabric of the game.

The same public that doesn't care about it until it puts what they consider a "black eye" on their sport? Well I've got bad news for the public...

The same public that doesn't care about it until it puts what they consider a "black eye" on their sport? Well I've got bad news for the public...

If the public knows about it, the public cares. When the public knows about it, the public cares.

I don't believe it is a logically valid conclusion to state that because the public was excited about the game that was played with clandestine use of illegal performance-enchancing drugs that you can say the public supports performance-enchancing drugs. Part of the excitement about the game was the belief that it was honest.

The public isn't being hypocritical about wanting to clean up the game. The public wants a clean game. It always has and it always will.

Oh bull****. Come on, the 70s and 80s alone. Don't even have to go into the first rumblings of steroids around McGuire and all the backlash that got from fans and fellow journalists when he was first questioned. Those people were outcast who dared to do that. When will you stop believing this sanctity of the game act? People knew. Fans were more than happy to ignore it until it became unavoidable. Writers until it became a viable story.

I wish that "steroid era" would be called the "juiced ball" era. The ball had more to do with the explosion in home runs than PED's. PED's have always, and will always be rampant in sports. The ball was what separated that era more than anything. It really makes Pedro Martinez' numbers during that time even more brilliant. I really think he's the best pitcher I've ever seen.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by shoota

I'm not counting this homerun or his 3 RBI from today's game because of the game situation. I'm not counting his pinch hit solo homerun in a blowout win in Colorado. In my book, Crede has 2 less home runs than his statistics show, 4 less RBI, and one less walk (the one where he pinch hit for Uribe after coming in with a 3-0 count and taking one pitch).