You have 0 experience in matches and competitive play, I assume. How do you know? I can tell your for a FACT SK happens in nearly EVERY match - regardless of team skill especially on maps like Goldrush etc.

How is SK a tactical advantage? You can easily suprise the enemy by not being in the usual spot but what you are doing is surrounding the area where your enemy respawn because they have lead themself there; which is usually caused by the opposing side being overpowered. SK in this regard is no way a tactical advantage but merely the result of the opposite side being overpowered. You can easily SK a chocke point in the middle of the map but once again it is more than just camping one spot that noobs have to learn.

Prove that SK is not the result of one side being overpowered and i'll shut up on this topic and even apologise for my ignorance. I'm not offended by your views guys, its just that my view has a specific target and this thread being directed towards noobs getting better, I disagree that spawn killing is a valuable lesson they should learn, even at this stage.

I can't exactly bring evidence other than my experience playing ET competitively - SK happens and it is NEEDED to win sometimes. Coordinating strikes dependent on spawn time, how many enemies are dead, if there is a spawn killer ready etc is a big part of game play. A good spawn kill will win you the match VERY quickly. SK happens on EVERY public server(except if there's rules) and anyone can do it. Not only pros sk noobs. I somewhat agree with your statement about teaching newbs because if Zerobyte wants to only play on OZ then the whole spawn killing tip isn't needed plus it's more of an advanced tip for competitive play.

The whole argument has been blown out of proportion here and it's only you who argues that SK is a cheap, non tactical, dishonorable(???) concept which can only happen when it's Good players vs bad players. Look at our arguments posted and rethink your ideas towards spawn killing.

Well-Known Member

SK in matches are team based tactic, SK in public servers are done (usually) by solo players because they are good enough or if the sides are biased. SK in matches and public gameplay are two different things but in both cases it happens because the weaker side is forced towards their spawn. SK is something you just do and itself is not a tactic. What is tactical is how you place yourself and/or your team around the spawn IF the opposing side allows you to (i.e they are too weak and are forced back).

Teaching noobs to SK doesnt make sense nor is it a tactic. What is a tactic however is telling them we will SK but in order to do so you need to learn where to SK from, which goes back to knowing your surroundings and not necceseraly does it imply that you have to SK.

Telling some newcomer/noob to SK as much as possible wont make them better. What will make them beter is telling them to know your surroundings EVEN near the enemy spawn so that you can suprise them (if you can manage to force the enemy team back to their spawn).

I know what i'm talking about and I wouldnt pursue this debate if I didnt have all the years of experiecen playing ET/FPS games. What the problem is is how you and I view what SK means.

Try telling a noob to SK and watch what happens...he wont know what to do, wehre to stand and most likely get killed and learn nothing. Tell a noob where to position himself/herself EVEN around the spawn if it leads to that and they will understand how to supirse the enemy.

I have never seen any team in a match based game SK without forcing the enemy back to spawn. SK is not a tactic but what it suggests is to setup your team around the enemy spawn so they cannot advance. I think of SK in a different way than yous have and it (SK) means two different things between competitive matches and public gameplay.

To me SK is just a term that describes a situation whereby the enemy is getting killed in their own spawn. That itself is not a tactic but a situation. What is tactical about it is how it can be done with the best results.

Moderator

It's a shame that a help thread turned into a sk debate, I suppose in the ET world "all roads lead to SK"
This is an endless loop that will keep on going so can we please just agree to disagree?
It was kinda funny at first reading it all but now everyone is just reiterating what they have already said.

Well-Known Member

SK in matches are team based tactic, SK in public servers are done (usually) by solo players because they are good enough or if the sides are biased. SK in matches and public gameplay are two different things but in both cases it happens because the weaker side is forced towards their spawn. SK is something you just do and itself is not a tactic. What is tactical is how you place yourself and/or your team around the spawn IF the opposing side allows you to (i.e they are too weak and are forced back).

You need to read what people are saying. Your opinion is wrong and proud. How do I know this? What everyone has said opposing your view you take as wrong.

For the last time. SK in both cases (matches and public gameplay) DOES NOT happen because the weaker side is forced towards their spawn, nor can a solo player just jump around the spawn and go at it. The Allied team, for example, needs to first of all find the spawn time, and second of all react to that time differently (ie, getting in the spawn a good 3,4, or 5 seconds AT LEAST before the axis team spawns, and either arty, airstrike, panzer, hide, mortar, satchel, grenade, block etc etc. when the axis plaers spawn shield wears off.

Now, your weaker team argument is rubbish. The amount of times, in a personal expeirence, where i have played on the weaker team and as a team we were able to spawn camp the better team is unbelievable. It's tactical, it's practical, and sometimes its the only way your going to win if 1 on 1 you can't shoot them down.

Death_Reincarnated said:

Teaching noobs to SK doesnt make sense nor is it a tactic. What is a tactic however is telling them we will SK but in order to do so you need to learn where to SK from, which goes back to knowing your surroundings and not necceseraly does it imply that you have to SK.

We've established its tactical. Now, before I could shoot half decently, I used to ask/spec/watch good players how I could get better. The main thing I noticed was the amount of players sking. I asked ulti how i could get better and he said just try and camp as much as you can, it will improve your battle sense, shooting and how to effectively hide, and it worked... I got better.

Now in teams of leaning. Leaning is terrible advise to give to people, you don't need to lean, you need to listen for steps, that way you can look infront of you and listen behind you, instead of leaning around the wall and leaving yourself vulnerable. I rarely lean.
spawn).

Death_Reincarnated said:

I know what i'm talking about and I wouldnt pursue this debate if I didnt have all the years of experiecen playing ET/FPS games. What the problem is is how you and I view what SK means.

You clearly don't, you have the likes of blusky, gtrain, nelots and messenjah all disagreeing to what you are saying. You have no idea what your talking about.

Death_Reincarnated said:

Try telling a noob to SK and watch what happens...he wont know what to do, wehre to stand and most likely get killed and learn nothing. Tell a noob where to position himself/herself EVEN around the spawn if it leads to that and they will understand how to supirse the enemy.

What your saying is go through every map and tell them where we stand?

Death_Reincarnated said:

I have never seen any team in a match based game SK without forcing the enemy back to spawn. SK is not a tactic but what it suggests is to setup your team around the enemy spawn so they cannot advance. I think of SK in a different way than yous have and it (SK) means two different things between competitive matches and public gameplay.

To me SK is just a term that describes a situation whereby the enemy is getting killed in their own spawn. That itself is not a tactic but a situation. What is tactical about it is how it can be done with the best results.

Well-Known Member

Tell a noob to SK and lets see how far he gets...Tell a noob how to SK, what to do and its a totaly different game.

SK is just a descriptive term which has no merit. What noobs need to learn is how to EFFECTIVELY SK (for example). i.e. What needs to be done. This is one of the things I was getting at.
If I told you jump across that fire pit and you will get better at jumping then you would fail. But if i told you how to do it then you would learn something. Your essentaily telling them to do something without advise.

What we got confused here is what we understand SK to be. I understand it to be an action that for it to be done well you need to know positioning/timing etc. Where as yous think of SK as an already encapusaled situation that when done teaches you; i think this is the wrong way to look at it and saying it is just too general.

Like I said i know what you mean by saying SK is a tactic but telling that to noobs means basically..WTF i dont get it!

I think this debate has been going on for far too long and drifted off topic.

In my next post i'll give some advice/tips on being a good panzer-noob (LOL). Since it has been my weapon of choice for yonks I have learned s**t loads of things about how to effectively use it.

Good debate and I do understadn where yous are getting at, dont get me wrong, but I think we look at SK from two different views. Even though both overlap.

You don't know what you're talking about - as I stated in my prior posts. I don't know what other games you have played but being a panzer noob on ETPub on servers that don't allow spawn killing isn't a detailed insight as to how ET works, sorry.

Well-Known Member

I'll keep this as general as I can without going overboard with mega-paragraphs.

1. Aim for the feet/ground . Become confident that you can take out target(s) from any situation and ONLY then up the anti and try to take them out with above-ground shots.

2. If youre not sure that you will get the enem-y/ies without resulting in TK (team killing) then dont take the shot. You need to become confident that you will not mass-murder your own team in the process.

3. Know where the choke points are and where your team is currently situated. One panzer in a choke point can either help your team or kill it. Become familiar with the situation (i.e asess it) so you can take out the most enemies without TK. Sometimes you will TK, so a quick v45 (sorry) usually is ok but if you keep doing it then expect any reaction from your team...even bleeding or a /kick.

4. Leaning around the corner with a panzer can be a suprise but it works best when targets moving towards you are far away. What you need to take into account is the charge time, so chargge the panzer up and just before it fires move left/right. This is a quick and suprising move that can take out alot of enemies that are progessing forward.

5. When ever you are taking the shot in the open and/or around a heated fire fight never stand still. Always try and be on the move even when the panzer is charging. This makes it harder for the enemy to target you and it also is an important method in picking targets with movement/aim that are also moving (i.e non-static targets). This will help you become more alert in the changes of the situation, likewise youre not a siting duck. More crucialy it will help you learn to pick of targets from further away that are moving around.

6. When ever there is a change in elevation or targets are far away jump right before tha panzer is fired. This gives you a better chance of hitting the target.

7. Be patient and dont rush it. Noobs tend to panic and rush their shots and themself into the battle. Asess the sitaution, time the momevent of the enemies so that you can take out as many as possible. KNOW your surroundings and never be in the same spot for too long.

8. Faking the panzer shot can be usefull (people like to /kill on a panzer, its cheeky but oh well). Sometimes its good to fake it by holding down on the lean button when its charging. It is sometimes crucial if you need to adjust yourself because a grenade hit you and you lost your aim or something else.

9. Timing and confidence are the most imporant things you need to learn. With that comes knowing and predicting where the enem-y/ies will be and the more you practise the better you will become at timing your shots and taking more chances. Alot of people get annoyed at noobs who TK and this lowers your confidence. Learn to take out easy targets and build your confidence up. The more you build it the more chances you can take and the more ways of panzering you will learn.

10. If you have missed your target then dont fret. Actually youre screwed in 99% of the cases. The only time you wont be killed is when you are far away from the action. What i'm getting at is to learn and take out targets from far away and not from directly down the straight line. They cant hear your panzer charging nor can they usually see it coming because its not directly at them. Suprise is the key element.

There are many more tips that I could put up but basically you need to be confident, time your shots and be unpredictable. What is however required is to have good reflexes and quickly assesing the situation.

Don't worry if people boo you when you kill one guy (who was smg or what ever). The more targets you can take out in any situation without TK and killing yourself the more you will become confident.

So practise, practise and PRACTISE and remember you have one shot so make it count!

P.S. If I can think of more then i'll let you know. Untill then GL and practise...even practise on bots.