I posted this in the test thread originally, but it occurred to me that nobody could do anything about it even in theory would be likely to notice it, as I doubt [-mArc-] regularly browses the test threads when he does make an appearance.

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Originally posted by Gopher:I think I just figured out exactly what's happening with the PEEL glitches that make posts not appear. It seems PEEL posts are handled in three steps: First, the post time is set in the thread list and thread is bumped to the top of the list. Second, the post is added to the thread. Finally the poster's name is set on the thread list. If someone loads the page after step 1 but before step 2 is finished, it goes on to step 3 and step 2 never may not be completed properly.

Speculation: I suspect it may be related to page caching; presumably, during step 2 the page is cleared from the cache so the next request will generate the updated page. This must happen before the data is fully updated, so that if someone loads the page after the cache is cleared but before the data is updated, the server mistakenly things the page is already updated, and the post does not appear until the cache is cleared again, either by an edit or a new post. The rare occassions when multiple posts in a row vanish are probably the result of a lot of people frequently refreshing the page, waiting for the missing posts to appear.

If this theory is correct, fixing this problem could be as simple as moving a single line of code down a few lines.

I think it's (server-side) caching related, too. But it is not that simple. Within the posting method, the cache is only cleared after the data has been completely updated. So I can't move that part further down. I figure it has to do with someone posting and someone else reading a different page that is not yet in the cache. If the cache is full, one page is first eliminated. If that happens to be the page that is going to be updated, a third person trying to open that page can generate a new, non-updated cache entry in a process-race condition.

I don't want to spend too much time on this problem as it is not too crucial. What I will do is increase the cache size (actually did that a few days ago anyway) to decrease the likelihood of the scenario above. I will also try to change the caching so that a cached page that was created during the same second that the respective thread was updated isn't going to be shown on any further requests.

Only problem is that debugging the whole thing is far from easy. We'll just see what happens.

There is also a problem with client-side caching if someone requests a page that is then changed the same second. If that person comes back, the server only sees the seconds and figures that everything is fine (HTTP only has a second-resolution for caching). Since this can be avoided by reloading the page (F5), I won't look into this one for now.

Update: erm, looks like that wasn't it... Now I'm getting client side caching problems... I'll look into it another time...

Ah well. Not having access to the source, that was just speculative. I guess I should've given you more credit than that, but I was feeling godlike due to sleep-deprivation at the time Debugging any caching-related bugs can be a pain, I know.

I'm not clear on your explanation, though; if you're not clearing the cache until the end, why do you ever get partially-updated pages? I'd think you should never see the bumped thread without the new poster name in that case. Are the thread lists not cached at all? On the one hand, they change the most, so caching is most expensive and least beneficial, but on the other, they're the most viewed pages.

I diddled around for hours that night, and I found even when there was almost no activity on PEEL, I was able to cause the glitch on three consecutive posts in different threads, all in off-topic. As long as I refreshed when the new date was present but the correct name was not, following the link always caused the glitch. Well, I only did it three times, because deliberately glitching every new post seemed a bit superdickish. I then tried the anti-glitch method 10+ times, without getting a glitch at all. Regardless of what the problem is, knowing how to cause glitches on demand should help with debugging.

A little thought, could you change the order things are updated so the post is to the thread page before the forum page is updated at all and the thread is bumped, or is that being done automagically? If the thread were not bumped until last, it might reduce the chances of people clicking on the thread during that critical instant, thus greatly reducing the number of times the glitch occurs, since the top thread usually gets more clicks than others.

Thank you. I also have a slightly random question. If, in the distant future, a forum has enough threads to reach twenty pages itself, would we have to close the forum and start a new one, orwould it just keep running?

Like Jicannon said, Forums keep on running. If you change the settings from on the top of every forum to show all topics and not just these from the last 60 days (the standard selection if I remember) you'll see that the General Disscussion already has 191 pages.

By ... the guy aboce me:Just wondering - where did the tradition of 'disscussion'

A simple typo years and years back. Once newbies started bitching about it, it was decided to keep t just to spite them.

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an 'PEE Poll' come from?

Velourfog correctly argued since this was the PEE Lounge, the natural extension was to name polls PEE Polls. mArc was swayed by her flawless logic and history was made. The fact that it would confuse newbies was an added perk.

I don't even remember how many times we've crashed. There was the time Jason pulled the plug on CGEF and by extension PEEL, there was the time the Test thread broke PEEL, there was the time someone overloaded the server by registration-bombing, etc.

I brought back the "How did you find PEEL" thread in the off-topic section. Could I start one in the on-topic section? There are so many people who post there, but not anywhere else. however, I don't want to make it and have it closed.

Hate to say it, but tnuk is right. There are a few honorary mentions to made of On-Topic posters, but the majority of people who can think straight have migrated off into Off-Topic, biding their sweet time until something of interest pulls them back within. Like, say, new 'Futurama'?

I can't wait until we have new Futurama content, not just for the show, but so I can shut down 90% of those inane "games."

Personally I'd like to shut them all down right now (read: back when they all started), but then the only active thread we'd have is the movies thread.

For instance, the 6, 6!!! different "What _____ am I thinking of?" threads can be collapsed down into one "What Futurama-related noun am I thinking of?" thread, the two framegrab manipulation variations can be collapsed down into one and the quote manipulations can be collapsed into one.

By saying "one of my friends accounts", I assume you mean your friend has multiple accounts. This may be the reason why this friend's accounts were banned in the first place. Also, it may help the mods unban this account, if they decide to do so, if you said what the account's name was.

Nix: For about a half a year, I didn't venture into General Disscussion unless it was either to link to a previous thread of the same topic/to the Fry Hole's FAQ for a new member or for the new Futurama thread. Only recently have I gone back into G.D., and that was for the only game I actually enjoy, which is the Framegrab game where one adds a caption to a framegrab. It's one of the only witty and fun "games" left, in my opinion. I really don't care for any of the other ones. Most of the others are just those stupid "What ______ Am I Thinking Of?" threads, which, to me, are just spammy and useless. This just leaves are the framegrab manipulation threads, which haven't been very interesting in about year when we started using generic framegrabs that can be found in every episode and the games have become wild guesses.

Also, I can't believe there are 6 "What _______ Am I Thinking Of?" threads. That's a bit too much interation of the same game. It's like the CSI shows; they're all the same thing, just different titles and settings.

Originally posted by Apartment1I:can I get you to unban one of my friends accounts?

As far as I know the only people that can actually unbann are our admins, so you might want to forward your request per e-mail to either SlimmyCGEF, or better yet [-mArc-] (his e-mail is at the bottom of the front-page and every single "alert"-button)

Make clear which account should be unbanned, and why. Because - like ICWeiner said - there surely was a good reason to ban it in the first way.

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