If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Re: [Deck] Deathblade

Originally Posted by First_Revenge

Maindeck Notion Thief is spicy. Did you nail anyone with it?

Notion Thief become like my signature card. Notion Thief was great when it was on the battlefield. Otherwise it was picked with Thoughtseize. I think this card is quite underrated. Notion Thief had his big plays in Round 5. He catched a Ponder (while being on board for a couple of turns in a stall) what draws me a Force of Will which I needed a turn later. Otherwise I would have lost to Tarmogoyf quite fast.
Overall it does quite similar things like Leovold while on board. Blocking cantrips of the opponent and prevent finding answers. Besides that he has the ability to catch Brainstorms due to Flash. And its psychological effect is amazing. 4 mana open and cards in hand ? Hope there is no Notion Thief.

Originally Posted by First_Revenge

1. DRS sits in slots where more traditional “utility” cards sit.

Sure DRS 'steals' you 4 slots. I guess this argument is very player based and comes to the question 'what do I expect from my deck?'
DRS allows more aggresive plays like turn 2 TNN or does 2 damage every turn. DRS pulls the action time of the deck towards midgame. Replacing it with cards like Snapcaster Mage, additional counter etc. you push the actions into the lategame. Snapcaster in your opening hand isn't good, drawn later it opens many possibilities. DRS in your opening hand is great, drawn later it becomes weaker because it will be more reduced to its black ability.
In my opinion this choice depends on your own needs and playstyle.

Originally Posted by First_Revenge

2. DRS warps our manabase significantly in the greedy direction.

It sounds like 'you have to be greedy with DRS in your deck'. For me it's 'you can be greedy'.
I fit in my list a basic of every kind I need, have the duals I need and utility lands like Karakas and Wasteland on a count of 21. I know players on control decks without DRS pushing down to 20 lands. Beside that you can take a look at my spells. The cost are plain and simple with a maximum of UB in color variation and a maximum of double colored mana of UU. How do I get UB or UU? With the combination of Scrubland, Tundra and Underground Sea I am able to cast every 3 mana spell in my entire deck. The fourth land doesn't even matter for my 4 mana spells.
The point is: DRS tempts player to become greedy. Look at 4C control with their Leovold, Liliana and Kolaghan's Command and everything wanted turn 3 would be great. Or 4C Delver with their 4C on 18 lands including 4 Wasteland and Fetchlands.
At the end this is again the choice of the player. You like to be greedy ? If not, don't be it. I know enough players who force Leovold, Abrupt Decay, Lilianas in Deathblade. It's not my personal choice of gameplay.

The discussion of DRS' potential is long and wide and reaches up to a ban for somebody.
I see it quite similar like you. DRS allows huge tempo plays with Wastelands and removal. I understand that Legacy is a format where you want to push the most power of every card. DRS might be stronger in other decks but it's a strong card overall and it does amazing things for Deathblade so I don't see any point why I shouldn't want this card. But here we are again at the same point as before; How I want to play my deck/the game?
The reason why I play Deathblade is not its amazing powerlevel and the things I accomplish.
I play Deathblade because I like to; I like to play Deathrite Shaman, Stoneforge Mystic and all this cards.
The limit I can push out of deck isn't the reason for playing it; for me, it's the limit a deck can push out of me as its pilot.

Re: [Deck] Deathblade

Originally Posted by Neo900

DRS allows more aggressive plays like turn 2 TNN or does 2 damage every turn. DRS pulls the action time of the deck towards midgame. Replacing it with cards like Snapcaster Mage, additional counter etc. you push the actions into the lategame. Snapcaster in your opening hand isn't good, drawn later it opens many possibilities. DRS in your opening hand is great, drawn later it becomes weaker because it will be more reduced to its black ability.

I agree with this a lot, and it’s where we probably diverge. My meta is full of low to the ground delver decks like grixis. My continual frustration has been that they always seem to get under me. I played pretty much the same manabase as you but still found myself hamstrung by mana costs.

Ultimately I decided that one of the key problems was DRS in delver decks were just flat out better than mine. Yes our DRS turns on a T2 TNN and gives us a 2 damage clock. But a T2 TNN hasn’t been back breaking in my experience(T2 Leovold is on the other hand busted), almost everyone seems to be prepared for it. And the 2 damage clock is good but not great. And while we do run 2 wastelands to help with our DRS plan, they always felt kinda tacked on to me. Wasteland now feels like one of those cards you play 0 of or 4 of. However, decks like grixis are really built around DRS so it shines in those decks in a ton of different capacities.

For what it’s worth, IMO it’s probably not ban worthy, but I can see how it pushes a lot of deck building into 4C piles.

At this point I basically decided the best way to go was “over” the delver decks which meant cutting DRS. It ended up getting replaced with supreme verdicts, ponder, and some number of snapcasters. Verdict IMO is criminally underplayed right now, and given how a lot of delver decks function it’s pretty much an automatic 2-1.

Re: [Deck] Deathblade

So today was the 2nd event for 2018 at my local gamestore. After Frankfurt I was able to be undefeated today.
1st Round: Jeskai Stoneblade 2-0
2nd Round: Eldrazi 2-1
3rd Round: 4c Control/Czech Pile 2-1

We were only 6 people today :( But I'm happy to see that my deck is still running. Gideon, Ally of Zendikar was so poweful. After dodging big control decks like Stoneblade or 4c at the mainevent, I had no data about Gideon's powerlevel. His emblem in combination with Lingering Souls is overwhelming for those decks.
The next event is at sunday. Still wondering how good Liliana, the Last Hope is.

Re: [Deck] Deathblade

Hi all,

I am picking up the final peaces for Stoneblade/Deathblade.. I am not sure what the strongest deck is.. I am between Esper Stoneblade with 2 Jace 2 TNN and SFM package or Mentor/Probe/Cabal Therapy package..

I don't know if Deathblade (TNN or Mentor package) would be better though.. also I don't have the Tropical Island.

Re: [Deck] Deathblade

First of all

I don't know if Deathblade (TNN or Mentor package) would be better though.. also I don't have the Tropical Island.

Each deck has it dis- and advantages. A missing Tropical doesn't let you use Deathrite Shaman's ability nothing more. You could replace it with a Bayou or Savanah. I would arrange the power of the green source like this: Tropical Island > Bayou > Savannah. I discussed Deathrite Shaman here.

I am picking up the final peaces for Stoneblade/Deathblade.. I am not sure what the strongest deck is.. I am between Esper Stoneblade with 2 Jace 2 TNN and SFM package or Mentor/Probe/Cabal Therapy package..

I thought about an Esper Mentor build temporarily. Deathblade has very tight slots. The first question would be 'How big is the Mentor package?'
The 2nd question will be 'What do we cut?'

How big is the Mentor package?
I would consider Grixis Pyromancer as reference for a package like this. Why? Grixis Pyromancer is a tempo which benefits from its token generating ability and it works. I lose against Grixis because I can't handle 8 Token. Monk tokens are bigger and their ability to grow can overwhelm the opponent quite fast. According to Tcdecks Grixis plays
2.88 Young Pyromancer -> 3
2.65 Cabal Therapy -> 3
3.46 Gitaxian Probe -> 3
You have a 9 card package to fit in.

What do we cut?
I examen this at my decklist I posted here. It's my most recent success with this Deathblade.
The roles of the particular cards is pretty clear.
Mentor - Clock and win condition
Therpay - disrupt, information
Probe - information, cantrip

Cutting a card from another respective area can lead to less consistency.
I play 3 Thoughtseize and I would fit the 3 Therapy into this slot. Cabal Therapy can be really devastating for your opponent. Hitting 2-3 cards is pretty strong and sacraficing a Baleful Strix to flashback Therapy is an easy choice for me (I smell value).

Finding slots for Gitaxian Probe is a bit harder. In my list I would exchange Ponder for Probe. Why? Both are cantrips and casting Ponder never felt strong to me. Both draw a card at sorcery speed. The big difference is that Ponder gives you knowledge about your own deck and Probe gives you information about the opponent.

And know the hardest part: Mentor
I can cut Notion Thief easily. It's more a gimmick I have and no important card. Since Monastery Mentor will be the core in this deck you probably have to cut True-Name Nemsis. The other possibility would be to play the small Stoneforge package(3SFM, Jitte, Batterskull).
I would consider something like this:
3 Baleful Strix
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 True-Name Nemesis
3 Monastery Mentor
The equipment is great with True-Name Nemesis. But with only one you don't need such a heavy package and you can win with a token army.conlcusions
Deathrite Shaman would allow you to hit Mentor on turn 2. Casting a Probe this turn and you have your first token. But I would play a Mentor package in a more controlish Esperblade deck. Your information gain is huge due to Gitaxian Probe and Cabal Therpay. I have also the feeling that Esperblade has more flexslots to hold such a package.
A final list would be something like this to me:

Re: [Deck] Deathblade

Originally Posted by Cheesehead

Hi all,

I am picking up the final peaces for Stoneblade/Deathblade.. I am not sure what the strongest deck is.. I am between Esper Stoneblade with 2 Jace 2 TNN and SFM package or Mentor/Probe/Cabal Therapy package..

I don't know if Deathblade (TNN or Mentor package) would be better though.. also I don't have the Tropical Island.

So can you help me, what's the best Version?

Thank you!

The beauty of either build is that there is big overlap with most of the cards, so it's pretty easy to accumulate the cards to build both versions. The manabases are similar, most of the expensive cards are similar, etc.

I'm obviously biased towards my Mentor build, but I think the only way for you to really determine which build you like better would be to try out both. Some playgroups allow proxies, so maybe that's an option for you.

Re: [Deck] Deathblade

Originally Posted by Cheesehead

Ok guys thank you very much, you gave me important Information.. I didn't notice that there is another thread for UWx Stoneblade.. I will post it there now :)

There is also a Esper Mentor thread in the developmental section -> here.
I'm sure they have many ideas for you and can help you out. If you consider more help about Deathblade come back to this thread or feel free to send a pm

Round one
Grixis delver 2-1
Lost game one, kept a hand of deathrite Jace and removal. Jace got countered and never drew another threat. Game 2 and three resolved TNN on turn two and that's that.
Win round win

Round two
Punishing rug 0-2
Game one got grinder out with punishing fire and Jace. Game two we played a long game where I had double deathrite and stoneforge to get sofi. Put in the sofi and equipped he respond with a bolt. Untapped and slapped Dack Fayden, stole the sword equipped his own deathrite and attacked. I draw air then he plays a notion thief and I scoop.
Loss round win

Round three
Food chain
Game one I keep a non interactive hand with deathrite and multiple true names. He resolves food chain on turn two with his own shaman. He had the manipulate fate and played all his 3/3s and I couldn't get through it. Game 2 I resolve a leovold on three where his hand was full on cantrips and a jitte won the game. Game three. I can't remember to much about this game only he forced my turn one deathrite pitching misthallow Griffen and played his own deathrite into food chain.
Loss round loss

Round four
Turbo depths
This was the gentlemen whos team top 4ed.
Game one I fight through multiple 20/20s with swords Jace and councils judgment, end up getting there with tnn and batterskull.
Game two I keep a one land with deathrite and pithing needle. Turn one needle naming thespian stage. He didn't have an answer to the needle and was never able to assemble the combo.
Win round loss

Round five 1-0
Mirror
I believe I won game one on the back of lingering souls. Game two I we both had leovolds and a deathrite shaman in play when our teammate finished their matches.
Win round win

Round six 2-0
Lands
Game one I open on thoughtsieze his hand was grove taiga glacial chasm krakas b-bog fetch and p fire. Take the p fire he plays grove and passes. I untap play deathrite and waste his grove. He draws air and I play TNN and a souls to close the game out. Game two he mulls to 6 games for a loam and I am able to surgical it before he gets to much value of it. I had to much pressure for him and that it.
Win round win

Round seven
Mirror 2-0
He was on the noble versus and drew to many dorks and my TNN plus jitte took the game. Game two we both resolve TNNs and I judgement his then start playing planewalkers.
Win round win

Round eight
Storm 2-1
Game one I play a leovold on turn 4 and get tendriled out while draws 15 cards. Game two I open with thoughtsieze take his tutor and the rest of his hand was lands and rituals. I win this game off leovold this time. Game three I thoughtsieze and he responded with a brainstorm. He hand was something along the lines of fatal push tendrils tutor and some lands. I take the tutor. He plays a land and passes. I play my deathrite into push. The game does a few turn where I play a TNN and start going to town. He resolves a few cantrips and I top deck the ethersworn to close the game.
Win round win

Round nine
Elfs 0-2
Game one i get combined out pretty early through a force and swords. Game two I keep polluted delta deathrite double zealous persecution swords and councils judgemnt after a mulligan. I drew the second land but his double deathrite match up to well against my hand. He resolved a Nissa and I could cast the judgement in time.
Loss round loss

Round ten
Mirror 2-0
I can't remember this match to well but he was on the noble list and lingering souls was a house.
Win round win

Round 11
Nic fit academy rector 2-1
Game one he had multiple sideboard cards still in his deck and ended up getting a game lost. Game two I got cursed and locked out. Game three I had the force for his first rector and beat him down with a TNN and containment priest.
Win round loss

Round 12
Death and taxes 2-1
Very long games where lingering souls shined. Zealous persecution single handily won a sideboard game. I think this match up is very good in our favor because of souls and the sideboard cards.
Win round draw

Round 13
Miracles
Lost game one to over extending into terminus where I tunnel visioned on him hard casting it while I had spell pierce in hand. Game two again lingering souls basically won the game. Game three I waste his volcanic early and turns out it was his only red source. I resolve a Jace and it wins he concedes to it.
Win round win

Round 14
Sneak and show
I keep a hand that turns 2 a TNN and he resolves a show and tell putting omni into play then casts the ol spaghetti monster. Game two I open with thought seize and take his Griselbrand where he has both show and tell and sneak attack. A few turns go by while we both sculpt our hands and I resolve a TNN. He goes for a show and tell and I surgical the Griselbrand and then cast a containment priest. Let show and tell resolve he puts nothing into play I put leovold. Game three I keep a one land hand with priest surgical pithing needle deathrite. I go turn one deathrite and he probes and goes for it and puts in Omni again and that's the game.
Loss round loss

Over all I was very happy with the deck. I think the LTLH could be another containment priest.

Sideboard
2x Disenchant
2x Flusterstorm
1x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2x Lingering Souls
2x Meddling Mage
1x Pithing Needle
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Vendilion Clique
2x Zealous PersecutionLink to deck @ TappedOut.net
A little update on my last piloting. For my only loss in 2018 was a 3-3 perfomance.
After this I came to the conclusion that I want to cut Karakas and going down to 20 lands and add another Snapcaster Mage.
I came up with this after seeing that all the greedy Czech Pile lists run only 20 lands. Since Esper Deathblade has also 4 Deathrite Shaman and a color less I should be able to do he same.
Karakas is only important every 5 games due to statistics so it was quite easy to cut this non fetchable; mono white; non basic land.

At the moment I try Search for Azcanta. I'm not blown away by it yet.

And I still want to try Liliana the last Hope but my russian card got lost -_-

Moved:
+2 (Main) -2 (SB) Lingering Souls
-1 (Main) +1 (SB) Umezawa's Jitte
-1 (Main) +1 (SB) Notion Thief
Over the last 4 weeks I have an overall score off 16-6. The most obvious change is the cutting of Baleful Strix.
Baleful Strix is a great card, no doubt about it, but with more and more control decks coming up, the potential of Strix trading with another creature gets worse.

Strix is okay against Delver decks but I play in replacment 2 Lingering Souls and a Tasigur which are both okay against Delver. Spirit Tokens block nearly everything (except Goyf and Gurmag Angler) to death. Beside that, Lingering Souls creates preasure on the board and pushes the momentum to our favor, switching the main target for the opponent to handle the urgent danger.

Still on the same topic: Umezawa's Jitte moved to the Sideboard. Sword of Feast and famine took its place.
Jitte does nothing against control decks. 4c control, Miracles, Big Eldrazi, Lands, Grixis Control are the most played decks right now (here in Germany and local meta). sfof is just a great card. The discard is quite good and the chance to untap is sooo good against control. I feel quite good with the two swords. It gives me much flexibility and the chance to react differently on certain situations.I wrote more about here.

Supreme Verdict and Council's Judgment:
Judgment is a great catch-all removal. Removing Jace, True-Name and sometimes an Emrakul.
I felt something like Verdict was necessary. Against many True-Names and Leovolds the spot removal is quite week. Another Choice for this slot would be Toxic Deluge. It's cheaper but costs life and can be countered. Against many counter spells especially Daze Verdict is just great, being able to tap out and clean the board.

Search for Azcanta:
Quite underwhelming. When I have it online it's quite weak. Often times I just find creatures and Land or equipment which doesn't help.
I understand the strenght and the point of this card; and the filtering and advantage effect is great, no question. Keep testing it but I will replace it with Painful Truths or Nights Whisper.

Liliana, the Last Hope:
THIS! Such a great card. Liliana wins games or at least turn the tables. Every ability is just good. I prefer her over Jace *-*

Force of Will / Counterspell:
Force of Will is card disadvantage to save your ass against bad thing your opponent plays. With all the decks which want to trade 2 for 1 right now, a 1 for 2 spell is not good. Force of Will is a necessary card and it's strong but a single Counterspell instead of the 4th copy can make the difference.
Over all I like the list so far. I'm still not a fan of Search for Azcanta (in this particular deck [line up]).
I hope this list keeps being that good and I'm able to win more tournaments with it.

2. Round: Belcher 2-1
Game 1 he goes off first turn and I was just dead.
Game 2 I have a hand with 2 Force of Will, Snapcaster Mage and Flusterstorm. He plays blind into my Flusterstorm with Empty the Warrens.
Game 3 his hand was just a win with 3 Lotus Petal, 1 Chrome Mox, 1 Burning Wish and 2 Lion's Eye Diamond but he forgot to put the Empty the Warrens into his board again after game 2.

3. Round: Miracles 0-2
Game 1 a long game and it was a pure war. He wins with an Entreat the Angels.
Game 2 the game starts with a pure war again until the point where I faced Jace + 5 Angels against my Snapcaster Mage and 6 Spirits. He was on 2 life but had a Snapcaster Mage to block my all in attack.

4. Round: 4c Control 2-1
Game 1 I start with Thoughtseize and with Search for Azcanta and Lingering Souls I can win.
Game 2 he had too much Kholagan's Command and destroyed both Swords and wins.
Game 3 I start with Thoughtseize again and with Gideon I had a strong follow up.

5. Round: Jund 2-1
Game 1 I lost against Liliana of the Veil and a huge Tamogoyf.
Game 2 we both have to mulligan. I start with 6 and he with 5. He's quite slow and I can win with Gideon.
Game 3 he starts with 5 again and I can win with True-Name Nemesis and Sword of Feast and Famine.

6. Round: 4c Control 1-2
Game 1 he doens't had green and stopped at 2 Lands.
Game 2 I lose against Jace and True-Name and couldn't find answers.
Game 3 I kept a bullshit hand with 5 Lands, Gideon and a Ponder. I play ponder and see 3 Lands and after shuffling I draw another Land. gg

7. Round: BUG Delver 2-1
Game 1 I can win a damage race with True-Name and Souls.
Game 2 He is very fast and has huge tempo advantage.
Game 3 I can catch an important Brainstorm with Notion Thief.

8. Round: Infect 2-1
Game 1 I can win with enough removal and keep the battlefield small with Sword of Fire and Ice.
Game 2 My opponent has a strong hand and I couldn't counter or remove successfully.
Game 3 He has to fight against 3 Thoughtseize, 3 Force of Will, 3 Zealous Persecution and a Flusterstorm.

9. Round: My opponent is disqualified.
The 4c Control player from my 6th round asked him for a dice roll to win the match but he refused and didn't call a judge.
Result: both dq'ed.

I'm quite happy how the deck performed over all.
The annoying thing was that I get nothing for my result and played 10 hours for nothing because you don't want to drop with a score of X-2 in a 9 round event to play sideevents.