Post by GlitterBro #2 on Apr 21, 2019 7:06:41 GMT -5

Are these the lasallian values this guy's always going on about? Someone needs to tell me who he thinks he is always handing down judgements and lectures the way he does all of the time. What an asshole.

The whole thing about your buddy texting you the quip about drunk driving, you should be ashamed of yourself. If that's not in poor taste, I don't know what is. Thankfully your school was more concerned with honoring the legacy of someone that was always a proud ambassador of this city and your school than the "optics". Seems like you're more concerned about your social circle accruing fodder for trash talk than anything. But go ahead and cherry pick religious values when it suits your narrative.

Funny being lectured by the guy who came on here wanting a Villanova player with an existing face injury to be punched in the mouth and injured further.

Not sure why I should be ashamed of a text I received - I can't control that - but feel free to look up the actual Lasallian values and point to where this opinion does not conform to them. Naming an award after him, in my opinion, sends a message that this type of behavior is not only tolerated, but celebrated. You can disagree with my opinion, as many have on here, but try to bring something to the table with it.

Post by thecoffeecake on Apr 21, 2019 11:48:16 GMT -5

No one is celebrating intoxicated driving by naming this award after Rasual. That's not how that works. Every single person that's ever existed has made a decision that shouldn't be celebrated, that doesn't mean no one should be recognized.

You think Tom Gola was a saint? You think there are no skeletons in his closet? Horrible people are venerated everywhere, and Rasual wasn't a horrible person. He made a bad decision, like you know you have hundreds or thousands of times. What he did isn't cause to forget the guy.

Post by GlitterBro #2 on Apr 21, 2019 23:11:22 GMT -5

He made a bad decision, like you know you have hundreds or thousands of times. What he did isn't cause to forget the guy.

Not saying he should be forgotten, but just not a fan of naming an award after him 15 months after his "decision" caused him and another person to be killed. People would still remember Rasual whether an award was named for him or not. People remember people all the time that don't have awards named for them.

Let's break it down a bit....let's say the accident/"decision" also claimed another person's life (I know this is speculative, but play along)...say a third person not in their car...would you be fine with the school naming an award after him then? The answer would have to be a "no" I would imagine, but because his girlfriend also got in the car with him, that makes it OK? What is the line where an award shouldn't be named after someone...2 deaths, 3, 4?

Interestingly, the Flyers give a "Pelle Lindbergh Memorial Trophy" each year to the most improved player (if you're too young to remember him, he left a team party intoxicated with a .24 BAC and fatally crashed his car). What I find interesting about this is that this is the same organization that just covered, and then removed, the Kate Smith statue outside the arena and declared her rendition of "God Bless America" will no longer be played at games. Maybe if Kate was better at sports, her statue would still be standing and her "bad decisions" tolerated.

Post by GlitterBro #2 on Apr 22, 2019 7:06:54 GMT -5

More of a comparison of an organization's response to "mistakes", Joe...one that took a life versus one that was a satirical response meant to poke fun at racism if you actually dig into the song and its intended satire. I think the jury is out on whether it was "clear racism" as you state. Is your conjecture that taking a life is "less of a crime" than singing an allegedly racist song?

Do you have an actual opinion on the above question, "What is the line where an award shouldn't be named after someone...2 deaths, 3, 4?"

Post by JoeFedorowicz on Apr 22, 2019 7:15:42 GMT -5

More of a comparison of an organization's response to "mistakes", Joe...one that took a life versus one that was a satirical response meant to poke fun at racism if you actually dig into the song and its intended satire. I think the jury is out on whether it was "clear racism" as you state. Is your conjecture that taking a life is "less of a crime" than singing an allegedly racist song?

Do you have an actual opinion on the above question, "What is the line where an award shouldn't be named after someone...2 deaths, 3, 4?"

The line is whether or not it was a homicide. It wasn't. It was an accident and it is tragic and it shouldn't wipe away the accomplishments and what he clearly means for the people MAKING THE DECISION.

Post by GlitterBro #2 on Apr 22, 2019 7:40:21 GMT -5

The line is whether or not it was a homicide. It wasn't. It was an accident and it is tragic and it shouldn't wipe away the accomplishments and what he clearly means for the people MAKING THE DECISION.

Regarding that song...she was a hired actor singing it in a film in 1933. Of course the lyrics haven't aged well...many lyrics and books haven't if taken out of the context and times they were written...but in the context of the country in 1933 this was, sadly, acceptable.

So vehicular homicide is the line, but vehicular manslaughter is acceptable...got it. No one is saying it wipes away his accomplishments, but let's not have an award named after him was my point. The naming of the award seems to have been an emotional decision. Rasual is still a respected basketball player and important to the school's basketball history regardless of whether an award was named for him.

Post by JoeFedorowicz on Apr 22, 2019 8:15:18 GMT -5

The line is whether or not it was a homicide. It wasn't. It was an accident and it is tragic and it shouldn't wipe away the accomplishments and what he clearly means for the people MAKING THE DECISION.

Post by GlitterBro #2 on Apr 22, 2019 9:17:37 GMT -5

Made by the people that are running the team. Exactly as it should be.

We'll disagree on that. Anything in the public like that should go through a review to assess impact (and I freely admit that spending 20+ years in a regulated industry where every word we release publicly goes through multiple review cycles makes me conservative on institutional messaging).

Speculative, but let's say Leah LaBelle's parents saw the announcement of the award and were upset about it. Would they have a right to ask the school not to name the award after him?

Post by MisterD on Apr 22, 2019 9:30:22 GMT -5

Speculative, but let's say Leah LaBelle's parents saw the announcement of the award and were upset about it. Would they have a right to ask the school not to name the award after him?

I think any time a passenger is affected their family is the one to listen to about the incident, yes. And I’d certainly bet that most of the time when more than one adult gets into a car like that, it’s a mutually known and accepted risk. (There are exceptions of course, I’m just saying far more often than not it’s mutual.)

Post by GlitterBro #2 on Apr 22, 2019 9:34:13 GMT -5

This is degenerating to speculation as to what Rasual Butler's girlfriend's parents (who had more alcohol in her system as well as the same drugs Butler did) believe.

Last comment on this topic. I think you're off base. I think the majority of people here would agree.

Of course it's speculative. That's the point. Are you saying she deserved to die because she had alcohol and drugs in her system and got in the car too, so her parents don't have a right to have an opinion on this? That's what you are implying by bringing up her - victim blaming.

It's perfectly acceptable to consider the "what if" scenario. One person complained to the Yankees about a song in a movie from 86 years ago , and the Yankees and Flyers reacted. What if one person connected to Leah's family complained? Would their complaint be founded and should the school/team get rid of the award?

Post by GlitterBro #2 on Apr 22, 2019 10:21:40 GMT -5

If Rasual forced her into the car or if he lied about being sober or if she was incapacitated, you're making a great point about the victim. If not, you're missing an awful lot of nuance here.

Her BAC was a lot higher than his according to the autopsy reports, meaning she was likely more incapacitated. Was she even in a position to make a lucid decision? Getting into a dangerous area here, I know, regarding victim responsibility when they are drunk or incapacitated, and there is lots of judicial precedent for that.

Post by thelasallelunatic on Apr 22, 2019 14:03:59 GMT -5

A husband and wife made a choice that was horrible and ended up with fatal consequences. Spin this 3 ring circle any way you want. They made a very bad decision. It doesn't mean his memory shouldn't be honored.

Post by diehardexplorer on Apr 22, 2019 16:07:11 GMT -5

A husband and wife made a choice that was horrible and ended up with fatal consequences. Spin this 3 ring circle any way you want. They made a very bad decision. It doesn't mean his memory shouldn't be honored.

exactly lunatic.

rasual was a good guy. was loyal to la salle and roman catholic, sponsored numerous local youth teams, sponsored an annual fundraiser all-star game which many of his nba buddies participated in. his memory most definitely should be honored.

i respectfully ask that this thread be locked so glitter boob can't continue to rip the guy.

Post by 23won on Apr 22, 2019 17:26:21 GMT -5

This thread digression is like witnessing a channel surf-fest between MSNBC and Fox News. Each side is arguing its points and calling the other side an idiot. No listening to or reflecting on what the other side is saying.

As someone who watches neither channel but but does tune in here to hear about La Salle MBB, let me break it down for you.

KS did a lot of great things for this country and did something that may or may not have been improper by 1930s standards; furthermore, she may have been coaxed or coerced by her label to sing a song or two that they thought would "sell". She also sang and became famous for "God Bless America;" for all we know, if PC people dictate it 30 years from now, people will be pulling down statues for singers who used the "God" in their songs. IMO, applying social mores from today to events that occurred 86 years back, and calling someone (and their "legacy") out because of it, is the job of someone who has too much time on their hands and who should be doing something more productive. Your mileage (aka opinions) may vary.

RB did a lot of great things for the schools he attended, the communities he came from and worked with and for the professional teams and players he was associated with. He may have made a mistake of judgment, he may have had pressures that caused him to seek relief and blow off steam, or he may have been having a great time and just went a little over the line; any one of these things are things I could have done in my past (with similar or different substances) and I'd bet most or all on the board could have been in a similar situation in your past (with similar or different substances) but for the luck of God.

Bottom line is that both were, generally by all accounts, really good people and bad things happened to them. That's called life. Unless you have some special life line that can save you, you are no different, so don't condemn or judge, or you'll wind up irreparably angry. So everybody, be happy, please, and cut this back and forth nonsense out. And if I forget the advice I just gave you and make a stupid contentious post with another poster, feel free to remind me to be happy. To err is human; but when our friends help us when we make mistakes and get angry, now that is devine.

Post by thecoffeecake on Apr 22, 2019 20:47:51 GMT -5

He made a bad decision, like you know you have hundreds or thousands of times. What he did isn't cause to forget the guy.

Not saying he should be forgotten, but just not a fan of naming an award after him 15 months after his "decision" caused him and another person to be killed. People would still remember Rasual whether an award was named for him or not. People remember people all the time that don't have awards named for them.

Let's break it down a bit....let's say the accident/"decision" also claimed another person's life (I know this is speculative, but play along)...say a third person not in their car...would you be fine with the school naming an award after him then? The answer would have to be a "no" I would imagine, but because his girlfriend also got in the car with him, that makes it OK? What is the line where an award shouldn't be named after someone...2 deaths, 3, 4?

Interestingly, the Flyers give a "Pelle Lindbergh Memorial Trophy" each year to the most improved player (if you're too young to remember him, he left a team party intoxicated with a .24 BAC and fatally crashed his car). What I find interesting about this is that this is the same organization that just covered, and then removed, the Kate Smith statue outside the arena and declared her rendition of "God Bless America" will no longer be played at games. Maybe if Kate was better at sports, her statue would still be standing and her "bad decisions" tolerated.

I think there's definitely a line between someone being killed who made the decision to be in a dangerous situation, got in a car with someone they were drinking and doing drugs with, and someone else that might have been a victim, someone not in their car, that was in the wrong place at the wrong time. It's ridiculous to even speculate she was coerced or incapable of making a lucid decision. Really irresponsible things to grasp at to try to support your argument, in my opinion.

Post by thecoffeecake on Apr 22, 2019 20:52:15 GMT -5

This thread digression is like witnessing a channel surf-fest between MSNBC and Fox News. Each side is arguing its points and calling the other side an idiot. No listening to or reflecting on what the other side is saying.

As someone who watches neither channel but but does tune in here to hear about La Salle MBB, let me break it down for you.

KS did a lot of great things for this country and did something that may or may not have been improper by 1930s standards; furthermore, she may have been coaxed or coerced by her label to sing a song or two that they thought would "sell". She also sang and became famous for "God Bless America;" for all we know, if PC people dictate it 30 years from now, people will be pulling down statues for singers who used the "God" in their songs. IMO, applying social mores from today to events that occurred 86 years back, and calling someone (and their "legacy") out because of it, is the job of someone who has too much time on their hands and who should be doing something more productive. Your mileage (aka opinions) may vary.

RB did a lot of great things for the schools he attended, the communities he came from and worked with and for the professional teams and players he was associated with. He may have made a mistake of judgment, he may have had pressures that caused him to seek relief and blow off steam, or he may have been having a great time and just went a little over the line; any one of these things are things I could have done in my past (with similar or different substances) and I'd bet most or all on the board could have been in a similar situation in your past (with similar or different substances) but for the luck of God.

Bottom line is that both were, generally by all accounts, really good people and bad things happened to them. That's called life. Unless you have some special life line that can save you, you are no different, so don't condemn or judge, or you'll wind up irreparably angry. So everybody, be happy, please, and cut this back and forth nonsense out. And if I forget the advice I just gave you and make a stupid contentious post with another poster, feel free to remind me to be happy. To err is human; but when our friends help us when we make mistakes and get angry, now that is devine.

I stopped reading this when you suggested repressing religious expression would be the same thing as trying to repress racism and bigotry.

Post by glorydays on Apr 23, 2019 10:38:02 GMT -5

No one is celebrating intoxicated driving by naming this award after Rasual. That's not how that works. Every single person that's ever existed has made a decision that shouldn't be celebrated, that doesn't mean no one should be recognized.

You think Tom Gola was a saint?

Interesting discussion board. In a short period of time we have gone from the cannonization of Christian Ray to the canonization of Tom Gola. Both topics are compelling.

Post by theneumann64 on Apr 23, 2019 11:43:00 GMT -5

No one is celebrating intoxicated driving by naming this award after Rasual. That's not how that works. Every single person that's ever existed has made a decision that shouldn't be celebrated, that doesn't mean no one should be recognized.

You think Tom Gola was a saint?

Interesting discussion board. In a short period of time we have gone from the cannonization of Christian Ray to the canonization of Tom Gola. Both topics are compelling.

We don't need to do the Canonization of Larry Cannon, because that would be redundant.

Post by explorerburger on Apr 23, 2019 14:08:00 GMT -5

1. Go into a cathedral. Go into a museum. Go into the Capitol Rotunda or any state house in the nation. 2. Realize how many figures were at one time deemed worthy of a statue, yet failed to make the history books.3. Ask yourself why we are so obsessed with iconography and enshrinement.4. Promise yourself you'll spend more time reading books and going to museums.5. Go on the internet and participate in a debate that needlessly escalates into a battle that dips into toxic political territory that will fail to change even one mind.6. Forget all about that promise to yourself.7. Proudly reach Gola status.

Post by 23won on Apr 24, 2019 7:42:08 GMT -5

This thread digression is like witnessing a channel surf-fest between MSNBC and Fox News. Each side is arguing its points and calling the other side an idiot. No listening to or reflecting on what the other side is saying.

As someone who watches neither channel but but does tune in here to hear about La Salle MBB, let me break it down for you.

KS did a lot of great things for this country and did something that may or may not have been improper by 1930s standards; furthermore, she may have been coaxed or coerced by her label to sing a song or two that they thought would "sell". She also sang and became famous for "God Bless America;" for all we know, if PC people dictate it 30 years from now, people will be pulling down statues for singers who used the "God" in their songs. IMO, applying social mores from today to events that occurred 86 years back, and calling someone (and their "legacy") out because of it, is the job of someone who has too much time on their hands and who should be doing something more productive. Your mileage (aka opinions) may vary.

RB did a lot of great things for the schools he attended, the communities he came from and worked with and for the professional teams and players he was associated with. He may have made a mistake of judgment, he may have had pressures that caused him to seek relief and blow off steam, or he may have been having a great time and just went a little over the line; any one of these things are things I could have done in my past (with similar or different substances) and I'd bet most or all on the board could have been in a similar situation in your past (with similar or different substances) but for the luck of God.

Bottom line is that both were, generally by all accounts, really good people and bad things happened to them. That's called life. Unless you have some special life line that can save you, you are no different, so don't condemn or judge, or you'll wind up irreparably angry. So everybody, be happy, please, and cut this back and forth nonsense out. And if I forget the advice I just gave you and make a stupid contentious post with another poster, feel free to remind me to be happy. To err is human; but when our friends help us when we make mistakes and get angry, now that is devine.

I stopped reading this when you suggested repressing religious expression would be the same thing as trying to repress racism and bigotry.

You stopped reading because reading more than 100 characters and reading comprehension are a challenge for you. You’d rather stop and put someone in one of your little boxes instead of listening. That will serve you well. Carry on with that and good luck to you.

Post by GlitterBro #2 on Apr 24, 2019 7:49:45 GMT -5

rasual was a good guy. was loyal to la salle and roman catholic, sponsored numerous local youth teams, sponsored an annual fundraiser all-star game which many of his nba buddies participated in. his memory most definitely should be honored.

i respectfully ask that this thread be locked so glitter boob can't continue to rip the guy.

I didn't "rip" the guy. I also am not diminishing his accomplishments. If you look back at what started the dialog/debate/posturing in this thread, it was questioning whether or not it was appropriate for the school to name an award after him.

The majority of those that weighed in felt yes it was. Some felt no (some private messaged me and said they agreed with me but didn't want to post on here), and others said they saw both sides of it and didn't have an opinion either way. I've asked a few not on this board who follow La Salle hoops but not to the level of reading or posting on the board, and it was again, a mixed bag (albeit less emotional than it got on here).

It was more of an institutional question I posed based on the results of a very public story, not a rip on Rasual. And, let's face it, La Salle does not have a good history recently of weighing the public impact of some of their decisions (the Art Museum thing comes to mind, and the PR person who handled that is now no longer with the University a year later. That individual actually came to an Alumni Board meeting and said....we didn't realize this would be perceived so negatively by the larger community).

There was a similar discussion on here when the autopsy results were released about Rasual's number being retired with varying opinions as well.

Post by thecoffeecake on Apr 26, 2019 13:28:02 GMT -5

I stopped reading this when you suggested repressing religious expression would be the same thing as trying to repress racism and bigotry.

You stopped reading because reading more than 100 characters and reading comprehension are a challenge for you. You’d rather stop and put someone in one of your little boxes instead of listening. That will serve you well. Carry on with that and good luck to you.

I don't even think you understand the argument you were making, so I'd pump the brakes on tossing out insults like that if I was in your position.