Le Cygne, R.D., Pepe Nero:
If any of you -- or anyone else -- believes in your own mind that Gao, Nagasu, and Zhang are not as All-American as Wagner, Gold, Zawadzki, etc., then SHAME ON YOU!!!

Normally I will take the time to read through all the subsequent posts before responding, but here I'm compelled to respond immediately. That response is: I feel pity for you, golden411. Even though you are clearly opposed to racism (what I was euphemistically referring to by "cultural bias" in the post of mine to which you respond), you do not appear to understand the difference between pointing possible racism out (what I was doing) and actually being racist.

BTW, I understood Le Cygne and R.D.'s posts the same way I understood mine, more or less (though I don't mean to speak for them).

Sheesh.

Originally Posted by ForeverFish

Additionally, I don't think that LeCygne, R.D., or Pepe Nero were suggesting that ethnicity plays a role in one's all-American-ness. The tone of their posts implied that they disapproved of such attitudes, if anything.

I wasn't the one suggesting it in the first place. Although now that I think of it, we have seen an increase in bad blonde dye jobs in the past few years. Ashley actually has a good dye job but as for the rest:

Makarova - 2011/2012 season, her hair was too blonde and the shade combined with her dark roots and the pepto bismol color dress was almost as much of an eyesore as that program

Gede - 2010/2011 season, what is a girl of her origins doing as a blonde? Does not go with your skin tone at all sweetie

Glebova - for a few seasons, it actually looked okay but she's hot already you don't need to dye your hair at all girl

Barbie Long - 2012/2013 season, is she trying to look like Barbie the doll? The highlights were okay but then she went all blonde which combined with the over-tanning and pink bedazzled costume made her look trashy, which is a shame because she's pretty

Biryukova - for a while now, idk her blonde hair dye always looks sparkly to me and all that glitter makes her hair look grayish silver in some lighting...yeah, no bueno

Korobeynikova - 2012/2013, if you're going to get blonde highlights in brown hair, please go to someone who knows what they are doing. Her hair looked a peachy orange color at Nationals and I wasn't feeling it

Gracie Gold - end of 2011/2012 season, I really liked her streaky strawberry-blonde color she was rocking at Nationals, don't know why she switched it for platinum blonde with really noticeable brown roots, she's pretty regardless but her brown eyes looked better with the warmer shade

Courtney Hicks - 2012/2013 season, a bad highlight/dye job all around, the streaks were uneven, it made her look a bit so-cal trashy, she was much prettier as a brunette

Also, not blonde, but Mirai and Yuna have also gotten red/orange highlights in their hair recently...maybe it's the asian equivalent of going blonde and they are hoping to pick up some extra points from the judges?

But anyways, I wish these beautiful brunette skaters would stop dying their hair blonde and just go back to their normal color! Blonde does not equal better and most of them look worse..

The idea that hair color has anything to do with placements (or that anyone was ever suggesting such a thing) is a farce, and misrepresents others' suggestions on this topic. The point in mentioning hair color (for me, but for others, I think, as well) is, of course, that that physical feature (manipulable though it may be) is treated in combination with other physical features in the contemporary West as a marker of one's race. I don't want to suggest that you are intentionally misrepresenting others' (including my) view in order to make it seem absurd, but that is the more charitable interpretation.

Le Cygne, R.D., Pepe Nero:
If any of you -- or anyone else -- believes in your own mind that Gao, Nagasu, and Zhang are not as All-American as Wagner, Gold, Zawadzki, etc., then SHAME ON YOU!!!

Originally Posted by Pepe Nero

Normally I will take the time to read through all the subsequent posts before responding, but here I'm compelled to respond immediately. That response is: I feel pity for you, golden411. Even though you are clearly opposed to racism (what I was euphemistically referring to by "cultural bias" in the post of mine to which you respond), you do not appear to understand the difference between pointing possible racism out (what I was doing) and actually being racist.

BTW, I understood Le Cygne and R.D.'s posts the same way I understood mine, more or less (though I don't mean to speak for them).

Sheesh.

My turn to say, "Sheesh." Save your pity for someone who needs it.
I understand perfectly well that pointing out racism is different from being racist.
You do not appear to have noticed that I was careful in my previous post to say, "If any of you ... believes in your own mind..." -- for the very purpose of drawing a distinction between (1) discussing the possibility of racist views within USFS and (2) personally holding the same views.

In the sentence below that follows this one, I am stating only how the three posts (including yours) that I cited earlier came across to me (i.e., I am not trying to put words in anyone's mouth). What troubled and still troubles me is that the three posts seemed not only to point out possible racism on the part of USFS -- but also (IMHO) to forgive it, or at least shrug it off, as if it were understandable on some level. (For example, I did and do wonder why you made a conscious choice to use the euphemism -- as you have described it yourself -- of "cultural bias.")

I am opposed to racism, to sugarcoating racism, and to condoning racism. If you share my feelings on each of these points, all the better.

About halfway through the off season, what does everybody think of the relative positions of the US ladies?
So far the highest total score posted for a US Ladies Singles skater is Polina Edmunds 168.27 at the Broadmoor Open.http://unseenskaters.wordpress.com/

I don't think we really have enough data for rankings like this. For example, what evidence do you have to support that Christina is just treading water? Her season ended on a pretty good note at 4CC and her public statements afterward were all determined and clearsighted about where she needs to improve. It may be her off season training is going very well. And how do you know that Angela Wang isn't making improvements over the summer? She had quite a strong season and is well positioned.

Also, considering that Ashley ended the season 1st at Nationals, 5th at Worlds, and 2nd at WTT, I think it's a little too soon to say she's "going down." Granted, the patched-together coaching situation is not encouraging, but I'm not giving up on her yet.

I don't think we really have enough data for rankings like this. For example, what evidence do you have to support that Christina is just treading water? Her season ended on a pretty good note at 4CC and her public statements afterward were all determined and clearsighted about where she needs to improve. It may be her off season training is going very well. And how do you know that Angela Wang isn't making improvements over the summer? She had quite a strong season and is well positioned.

Also, considering that Ashley ended the season 1st at Nationals, 5th at Worlds, and 2nd at WTT, I think it's a little too soon to say she's "going down." Granted, the patched-together coaching situation is not encouraging, but I'm not giving up on her yet.

This is exactly what I was going to say. We haven't even seen most of the above compete in the off-season yet; the "big" names -- Gold, Wagner, Nagasu, Czisny, Zawadzki, and Gao -- have been out of the competitive spotlight since the end of last season. We have no idea what condition they're in. Ashley, whatever her coaching situation might be, is still the reigning US champion. Alissa is still known as a former leading lady. Gold is the obvious heir apparent to the US ladies' throne, but she's been notoriously inconsistent. Zawadzki and Gao had strong showings at Nationals and have both demonstrated that they're going all-out for the Olympic season. If anything, Nagasu and Caroline Zhang seem to be in the most danger right now.

AFAIK, only Gold has made any definite summer competition plans (Skate Milwaukee, next week). Czisny has already stated that she won't be competing until the GP, at the very earliest. The rest of them have been tight-lipped.

How many of the above have been in summer competitions, so far? Just Edmunds, Miller, Wang, and Siraj. Rachael Flatt has already put her career indefinitely on hold to pursue her studies at Stanford; I doubt if she'll ever come back. Nina Jiang, Samantha Cesario, Leah Keiser, and Vanessa Lam historically haven't been strong forces among the US ladies, but that could change. We've yet to see if Courtney Hicks can medal at 2014 Nationals, or if her pewter medal last season was a fluke.

Therefore, any assumptions that certain skaters are moving up, down, or treading water are ... well, not backed up by much evidence.

Also, considering that Ashley ended the season 1st at Nationals, 5th at Worlds, and 2nd at WTT, I think it's a little too soon to say she's "going down."

As disappointed as I was with her effort at Worlds, I have to agree with this. Unlike the other "2008ers" she actually managed to stay in the top 5 two years in a row. When you look at the general trend the past two years, if anything she seems to be holding steady...not significantly improving nor regressing, just holding the fort...This was why I was critical of her towards the end of the season, because Gold is quickly catching up to her and yet she abandoned the plan of doing the 3-3. Anyway, she seems to finally realize that her strategy isn't going to get her on the podium without significant failure from her competition.

BUT- it is far too soon to say she's on a downward trend. There just aren't enough data points yet to make that assertion. Yes, she dropped one spot at Worlds (4th to 5th) but at all her other competitions, she finished on the podium which I'm sure any other US girl right now would kill for.

_______________

I will make the opposite assertion for Nagasu. Too soon to tell if she's heading upward...her disappointing turnout at Nationals virtually canceled any progress she may have made earlier in the season. But I'm not counting her out at this point. I think her chances are better than Czisny's anyway.

I don't think we really have enough data for rankings like this. For example, what evidence do you have to support that Christina is just treading water? Her season ended on a pretty good note at 4CC and her public statements afterward were all determined and clearsighted about where she needs to improve. It may be her off season training is going very well. And how do you know that Angela Wang isn't making improvements over the summer? She had quite a strong season and is well positioned.

Also, considering that Ashley ended the season 1st at Nationals, 5th at Worlds, and 2nd at WTT, I think it's a little too soon to say she's "going down." Granted, the patched-together coaching situation is not encouraging, but I'm not giving up on her yet.

I wouldn't put to much weight on WTT results. Ashley at best is treading water, not going down. She's only "going down" compared to Gold, who is rising very fast despite her inconsistency.

I don't see Mirai as moving up either: 3rd at US Nationals in 2011, then 7th in 2012 and 2013. Each GP season, she's medaled in one GP and finished off the podium in the other: 4th and 2nd 2010; 5th and 2nd 2011; 4th and 3rd 2012. I'd say she's treading water but slipping slightly nevertheless.

Wednesday, July 17: 4:00 p.m. EDT (3:00 p.m. CDT)> Fitness Training With the "Best of the Best!"
A Discussion About Health & Fitness With Olympians, a CrossFit Champion, an NFL Player and an Astronaut

How do astronauts stay in shape for long-duration missions in a weightless environment? Learn this and how elite athletes stay fit in a special Google+ Hangout on Wednesday, July 17.
NASA Astronaut Mike Hopkins will be joined by 2010 U.S. Olympic Team figure skater Rachael Flatt and bobsledder Curt Tomasevicz, CrossFit Games Champion Rich Froning, Jr., and Houston Texans player Jared Crick for the discussion, which can be seen live on NASA's Google+ page or on NASA Television.
Peter Moore of Men's Health magazine, Sam Kass, Executive Director of the White House's Let's Move! campaign and Mark Guilliams, Hopkin’s lead strength coach, will also participate.
To participate and have your questions answered during the hangout, use #askNASA.http://www.nasa.gov/connect/hangout.html#.UeTYnY21GSo

About halfway through the off season, what does everybody think of the relative positions of the US ladies?
So far the highest total score posted for a US Ladies Singles skater is Polina Edmunds 168.27 at the Broadmoor Open.http://unseenskaters.wordpress.com/

Your list is not making sense to me - unless you're only talking about the off-season. But lots of those skaters we've heard nothing about yet and won't be doing summer competitions any time soon. So yeah, not making sense.

Moving Down:
Caroline Zhang - clearly not strong enough to compete at the top any more
Nina Jiang - bad placement at JGP event, didn't compete at senior nationals
Leah Keiser - won a JGP event, had to withdraw from nationals

No Opinion
Alissa Czisny - nothing to base an opinion off of based on last season
Vanessa Lam - 4th place finish at one JGP event, withdrew for rest of season...no idea how she's doing
Rachael Flatt - has not indicated she's coming back to competition...probably shouldn't be included.