Superbacker

I'm going to echo what many have already said. I got a good laugh when I saw this update. The murderer "murdered" one of the other spots. Imagine that. Absolutely hilarious! I have been backing projects on Kickstarter for years and this is by far the most entertaining campaign I've ever followed. @Kingdom Death, this whole experience has been brilliant! Keep it up, good sir!

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@Sera It's your opinion. I'm for sure enjoying the way this campaing is being handled beyond the bargain stuff some people seems to be obsessed with. I want the GAME and some expansions and even when i can welcome the stretch goals, it's the GAME what it matters and i'm sure many others are on my side. This super fun updates, the comments and everything are really great and i can't stop to suggest people getting stressed to come back in 26 days and decide if they want to put their money here or not. Torture yourselves with this is not good for anyone... even when i admit is somehow fun

You're looking at this wrong - we're not looking at base game contents in isolation, we're looking at units or models that expand the base game content. Kingdom death: Monster is essentially a skirmish game, you can proxy models or you can go all out and customise and build every single survivor you ever have and in the end go through hundreds of models. Games-workshop has 3 main game systems, the 2 core being warhammer 40,000 and warhammer age of sigmar. Both games require the core game rulebook, rules for the army youw ant (and one for an opponent mind) and then armies which these days cost a bare minimum of $500-$1000 USD for playable armies let alone your opponents ones. People are griping over the gamblers chest being pinups and extra narrative models you can add to the game or not, these are literally stand alone models which can be used. GW's prices on individual models these days for a character level one make kingdom death resins look like cheap reject bin models at prices like those. My point is youc an't look at say space hulk or warhammer quest silver tower and compare the cost only. The models in space hulk for example are all fixed and can't be made into different models easily. KD:M all the survivors can and more they interchange with each other, like the quoted genestealer hybrid models do with each other in their ranges or the space marines do across their ranges. But space hulk is also about 1/4 the size and weight of kingdom death: monster in the current form, the kickstarter form is going to make it bigger and heavier. The fact is toy soldiers whether in fixed board games or collected to game with or paint or otherwise, are expensive. People keep missing this, and others seem to think kickstarter is a pre-order set up or a place where they get free things out the wazoo. the gamblers chest is a "gamble" but really not, it's already worth more then the selling price and we know more is inbound. Kickstarter is a crowd funding project set up - it's meant for businesses thatc an't afford to produce things so they get people to fund it instead and usually at a cheaper cost closer to production costs. People get lost in the over 7 million dollars pledged and think that's 7 million dollars available to spend on all this new stuff but it's not. Gotta break down to individual backers and what is being got and there's a surprising line there.

gamblers chest is a fancy name for a bunch of extra models and game content, if people don't like it they don't have to get it, heck they don't have to get any of the KD:M kickstarter. End of the day people will support the company and make all of this a reality or they won't, but the core of us will still be here and still chip along just awesome without the nay sayers and complainers.

By all means have a little fun with the campaign, but stop teasing people into thinking you're going to take value out of a product they paid a hundred dollars for. Not everyone here has the same financial means, and that is a pretty big investment to some people.

tl;dr put up a disclaimer that says you're not going to take value out of the gambler's chest

Superbacker

@Luke Yeah I would never (in a very rare situation I might) purchase that expensive models from Games Workshop. Luckily some game projects from them are fairer priced. I own Space Hulk (4th Edition) and I think it comes with 35 miniatures and the cost in USD is $125. Was also considering their Warhammer Quest: Silver Tower release, but I think I will pass.
@Florian Good to hear those points from Adam; and hopefully a hard cover rulebook becomes a possibility.

@Thomas "Why Not Both?"
From Poots :
"There is a lot in the GC that is in the "pitched content" zone. That's why there is no formalized list of assets. To me, its already looking like 100+ cards and a 30ish page rulebook!"

"@Dzone, I honestly don't know what to say. Two new game systems, an advanced rulebook... I think perhaps because the mini's are more visual people are kind of missing just how much that is and were not even done!"

"@Florian D., there will be a disgusting amount of game content. I think its easy to forget that there is a rulebook in there too!"

Here is a link to games-workshop's webstore ashowing your ecently released genestealer aciolytes in a boxed set of 5 for $40 USD. The gamblers chest is $100 usd. by GW standards that's 12.5 models with no rules or additional content. So far the gambler chest has revealed 12 models and a multitutde of extra gameplay for $100 USD. You're telling us that Kingdom death has no respect for us? You obviously have no concept of how much miniatures cost so here is a link to the GW webstore because they are still consdidered the top of the pack in this industry yet Kingdom death's models are far more detailed and still in the same material:

Pennant Hills I can get to but getting home again kicks in and makes me twitch (2 trains+half hour walk iirc from Liverpool). I wrote up my LY 10 ending, 7 Sword Masters settlement sheet and 6 surviving swordmasters (a bow master {2 of these iirc} a grand weapons masters a fist and tooth master an almost axe master and a spear specialist to boot) on a second set of sheets, I think you'd enjoy messing with them, they are rather powerful, learnt a lot about gaming the system in this campaign variant but even then not sure if it'll be enough to make it to the watcher.

Superbacker

If that's the case, then let people decide that for themselves. I am in the opposite camp from you. I think what I have seen thus far is worth it and whatever else is coming will be even more worthwhile.

You and I should trust other backers (bakcers) to make their minds up themselves. If they are "forced" into this and feel like they aren't getting their money's worth, then eBay is a good place for them to sell it off. And "rip off" is subjective. What you think is a rip off is not what others think. I think what has been revealed is good thus far, but some people will hate it enough to insult the creator, think it's just a rip off like you, like it decently like me, and love it enough to praise the creator.

@Thomas:
OK I'm persuaded. I will drop mine....no I didn't - my 'do not drop high value kick starter pledge' blocker kicked in. Trying again... still failed. I hope you aren't going back to the top of the page unnecessarily to look. I will try one more time - nope the value is too high.

Wait a minute, I don't even have that pledge. My bad. Back to hitting F5

Update #18 happened. 14,462 backers. So much salt was had. 14,524 when I look again. Its like people don't understand how much the gambler's box is a rip off. Poots isn't respectful or considerate to his fan base.

I got the black Friday special which includes the Gamblers box and I just want to say this Gamblers box roller coaster ride has been fing awesome. Checking the the rolls everyday and seeing what crazy games Poots is going to play has been so entertaining. I feel that alone is worth the $$$!

"Just wanted to quickly say that the Gambler's Chest is just a fun way for me to present things. It's all just part of the show! Kingdom Death is a harsh, but I am not. In my sleep deprived state, when the murderer's roll came up... I just couldn't resist! If you were offended I apologize. But there is nothing to worry about."

@ Swen: If you know the gamewell, you will see that Adam Poots is trying to give a somewhat similar experience in this campaign as to playing the game. I'm just worried that the people, who keep complaining about the way he is revealing things, also will complain about the stuff that will happen in the campaign, because they are, as I said, somewhat similar!

Superbacker

@Brett No apologies needed. I can understand where your frustrations lie because I can see the value of the GC which is why I have nothing but excitement for this content! As far as raising the price of the GC, that's malarkey. I think some folks need to realize that a gamble is a gamble, if you don't win you lose. Whine and cry if you wish but that doesn't change the outcome. I also would like to say I love love love this KS so far and kudos to Mr Poots for his success and creativity in making this a reality for so many of us!

Superbacker

As for Chrismas... As a Christian I would love to learn I will get to hunt Satan. What an appropriate Christmas Present that would be. I sure hope the heathens don't throw a fit about the campaign catering to Christians and threaten to pull their pledges if Satan is revealed as the Christmas present.

Superbacker

As for the msrp value of the chest..People need to realize that this is not a new game where the msrp could be assumed at anything, like $1000 a model. The msrp value is based on what you can buy in the real store for real money today. Is it overpriced? Welt if you look at the store, most of it is sold out. if anything, that is an indication they could sell it for more. Yes, value is subjective. But EVERY business is going to do their best to price to maximize units sold at the highest price possible. The value is clearly enough for enough people who have been buying it at that price to justify the claimed value of the GC. If you disagree with the value for you, that's fine. But to claim it has false value to everyone because the Msrp could be anything is ignorant. Just say you don't want it. Don't try and convince the world the value is a lie when the market has been speaking to its for years now.

What has complaining about a campaign to do with liking a game?
Business and gameplay are two very different topics and and criticism can be a very usefull thing for a creator.
It shows dislikes, flaws of a product or offers new new ideas / points of view.
That said, criticism should always be constructive and worded in a polite way

Superbacker

Superbacker

@Marek, if you are in one of the black friday tiers that include the GC I'm sorry that you are frustrated with your lack of flexibility. I am sure if you are and chose to switch it would lose you your $50 discount but my experience is there isn't really a good way to remove the chest without causing problems, after all from kickstarter's standpoint if he removes the chest from your reward and say gives you $100 to spend in the PM instead he might be counted as having not fulfilled his commitment to you based off your reward level.

@Jason: not everyone is from your end of the world, where you can actually sell it. I have no way any chance to sell gamblers chest in my small country, as there is currently maybe 5 KD:M games in the whole country and these people of course are also in this Kickstarter now for update so they can pledge it here if they want. Top that with the fact, that the postage is 20USD and there is still threat of another 20USD for VAT. If I sell it on ebay for 200USD, the charge for provision is I believe 34USD, plus I have to again pay postage, which will be tremendous for such a a large thing (I can expect 30USD+ if sent within EU). Also I will lose money for fx rate difference, as we do not have bank accounts in dollars currency. You are clearly just closed inside your own small world or you never reselled some kickstarter game if you think that everyone has to earn bucket of gold on reselling something big as this.

@ Daniel M Yeah I hate how the people can't have fun with this Kickstarter and just keep complaining. I think those peolpe also won't have fun with the brutality of the game, or won't play it as intended. I really hope the rating on BBG won't be too affected from those people.

If you look carefully at the background of the ram armour pinup you see burgeoning fruit, could The Lonely Tree be the next rereleased expansion? If the final Satan expansion is based loosely on the Goya painting Saturn Devouring His Child it would be no bad thing especially if the madness in the eyes of the original could be captured in the sculpt, very KD. The new hinted monster looks half insect half Cockatrice- aaah a monster that turns survivors to stone. Might link with learning from statues? Just me musing on ideas. Well done team Poots on the Murderer this role very entertaining, someone point him in the direction of a monster!

@Dr Manhatten - You know none of that is real, right? The christian holiday that you're talking about was first invented in 336 CE as a way of converting other religions (paganism, etc) to christianity. By co-opting their holy days they were able to entice them to join the church, as they can still hold their old holiday traditions, because "thats totally a christian holiday too". Where do you think christmas trees come from? Jesus (aka Joshua)?

I think people are upset because they could have invested the money in other expansions.
For example dragon king and dung beatle knight offer a lot of miniatures and gameplay for slightly over 100 $. That said I still think Adam has one or 2 nice surprises left beside nice narrative miniatures.

I really don't understand people's frustrating with the Black Friday $300 pledge...that's what I have and am thrilled with it. Do you really think you won't be able to flip the gamblers chest after the campaign if you decide you don't like it? Seriously the value in that thing is already nuts. Don't like it? Sell it for $200-$300 and make most or all of your money back. Just because the $200 option can choose not to add the gamblers chest if they don't want it(I guess they don't like free money after selling it off?) doesn't mean that the $300 option isn't still a crazy good deal...makes no sense to me.

Still utterly baffled why people are confused about what their pledges were going to include from the beginning and why they are confused about what is an add-on, and why they are confused why all this stuff is not free. Nothing is FREE people. KS does not equal get stuff for free,

Oh I totally get that Gabriel and do see where people are coming from. I just am amazed it is still coming up. The first time it came up people were actually asking for Poots to increase the price of the GC so they could feel like their pledge was better.... which was crazy to me. So apologies if some of that bled into my response below. I just don't think people in the BFGL tier are going to be upset with it at the end of the campaign and it is still a better pledge tier than most backers will get.

Superbacker

I believe that the gripe regarding the "Gamblers" pledge level isn't the amount of content as that is superb but rather the add-on feature of the GC. I feel like I took a gamble on BF by investing 100$ xtra over the 200$ level. Now as an add-on it was all moot but I took the chance so that's on me; no hard feelings.