Malcolm wrote:The Dzogchen approach to developing compassion is not to cultivate compassion through mindfulness and so on, observing how one feels, etc. The Dzogchen approach is based on discovering one's real nature. Once that is discovered, it is impossible not to have compassion for all sentient beings who are ignorant of their real nature -- that is "essencelove".

I've been wondering about this alot lately. It seems to me many masters talk about the importance of devotion to the guru and compassion for sentient beings even in Dzogchen. This confuses me because what you stated seems very similar to things I have heard ChNN say, who I am a student of. While I certainly believe that ChNN is realized, I also have to believe that many of these other masters are as well and wonder why they say these things in a Dzogchen context. Am I confusing the deliberate attempt to force more compassion and devotion upon oneself with the naturally arising compassion and devotion that will arise by recognizing ones own nature?

In other words, should we not dwell on ideas like devotion and compassion and just continue in this way?

Depends, you may not be "forcing" but you maybe consciously exerting or "generating" rather than having a genuine experience of spontaneously arisen compassion in yourself, which is what your nature does/provides, this naturally spontaneous compassion goes hand in hand with the purity of the nature. Recognition of ones nature can't be "built" with a formula of things to do. One cannot "gain a profound understanding" of Great Perfection teachings or ones real nature by building anything, while doing all the "building" one can still miss it, even through "Mahayana Practices" which are beneficial for those that do them, still, experiencing ones own nature does not solely depend on them, especially when it comes to Dzogchen, it would be a ka-zillion times better to just make the concerted effort to get the Direct Introduction to ones nature from a qualified Dzogchen master like CHNN, and by eventually being in that state, let that be one's "foundation" for everything else "Dzogchen".

Jeff wrote:[ My understanding of the specific "terms" in Dzogchen has grown since this statement.

To "see/percieve" the rainbow body, one must reside in Rigpa.

Oh, I see you mean not grown by analysis. It is said then in Rigpa all is clear and no extra clarity of analysing terms can make more clear, as being only adding fabrications in what already is perfectly clear.Trying to explain merely words, therefore free thoughts must not be allowed to arise-subside in themselves and so the aware nature aware of itself is broken in distraction. I am demonstrating. lol.To be able to analyse the moon reflection in the water, there must be one out of the union of emptiness clarity. That's me.

I think this tread shows there is different looking, different use of expression. In any case it is said that experience cannot be explained and still realized experiences' songs and writings to help all of us, can differ/change, while dharmata never does.