Comments on: Obama Warns: ‘Don’t Bet Against Us’ on Health Care Reformhttp://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/13/obama-warns-dont-bet-against-us-on-health-care-reform/
The Politics and Government blog of The New York TimesTue, 09 Feb 2010 20:43:05 +0000hourly1http://wordpress.org/?v=4.0.1http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/section/NytSectionHeader.gifNYThttp://www.nytimes.com
By: Jason Andrewshttp://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/13/obama-warns-dont-bet-against-us-on-health-care-reform/comment-page-2/#comment-1497613
Thu, 16 Jul 2009 21:50:35 +0000http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/13/obama-warns-dont-bet-against-us-on-health-care-reform/#comment-1497613Don Duval-A reality check for you. The Kaiser Foundation has no ties to Ed Kaiser. Try Henry Kaiser. But then why bother will anything that will refute what you have to say? As far as the analysis done by Milliman, they are an independent consulting firm. Just because they were commissioned by some in the health care industry to do a study and they came back with results that you don’t want to hear makes them neither partisan or biased. You need more than your word on that, which has been wrong time and time again.
I will stand by my statement saying 70% of the people in this country like their private health insurance plan. If they don’t have one, they are not included in this survey. You are attempting to dodge the fact people like their private plans. If I said 70% of the people like their Dell computer, would that mean that everyone has one? No. Instead of trying to dodge the facts, just admit the truth. Just short of 70% of the people in this country are covered by a private plan. 60% of the people have an employer provided plan, and around 9% buy their own plan. 15% don’t have coverage. Some is of their own choosing. Some are between policies. The rest of the percentage are covered by one of the different federal programs. The amount in this country that can’t afford private insurance is around 3% of our population.
I am sorry your premiums are high. There are things to be resolved in health care, but your analysis is off and very one sided.
Ed-Your statement is pretty pointless, since you don’t even attempt to refute one fact. Perhaps you need to educate yourself someplace other than the Ed Schultz show.
]]>By: Edhttp://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/13/obama-warns-dont-bet-against-us-on-health-care-reform/comment-page-2/#comment-1494669
Wed, 15 Jul 2009 05:00:32 +0000http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/13/obama-warns-dont-bet-against-us-on-health-care-reform/#comment-1494669Jason –

I have carefully read over and checked each of your posts…I have come to the conclusion that the only person your really trying to convince is ‘yourself’.

You would be better equipped to make these discisions and have these discussions if you spent half as much time seriously educating yourself about this subject as you do typing false statements on a ‘Times’ blog.

Remember, in the end ‘Cancer’ has no political party preference. It’s an equal oppurtunity type of a disease ya know ;)

I am actually wondering Jason, if perhaps you work for ‘CIGNA’ or ‘Humana’

Remember: “Slow down everyone you’re movin too fast, frames can’t catch ya when you’re movin like that. Plato’s Cave is full of freaks…demanding refunds for the things they’ve seen, I wish they could believe in all the things that never made the screen.”

]]>By: Jason Andrewshttp://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/13/obama-warns-dont-bet-against-us-on-health-care-reform/comment-page-2/#comment-1494503
Wed, 15 Jul 2009 00:46:00 +0000http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/13/obama-warns-dont-bet-against-us-on-health-care-reform/#comment-1494503Don Duval-It amazes me how you try to actually pretend you are being a bit honest. My statement was 70% of the people like their private health care plan. Obviously if you don’t have it, you won’t like it. And you obsess with employer paid health insurance. That is your issue, you brought it up. I only said roughly 200 million have private health insurance. Does it matter whether it is a freebie from their employer or they purchase it themselves? It is still private health insurance. You constantly try to squirm out of the facts.
]]>By: lvhhttp://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/13/obama-warns-dont-bet-against-us-on-health-care-reform/comment-page-2/#comment-1494451
Tue, 14 Jul 2009 23:50:43 +0000http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/13/obama-warns-dont-bet-against-us-on-health-care-reform/#comment-1494451Russell
I can understand where you are coming from but if Obama keeps heading in his direction there will be no one able to help those that need help.

I myself have never worked for a poor man and the taxes he is planning to impose will just destroy more businesses and jobs.

I wish you well.

]]>By: Edhttp://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/13/obama-warns-dont-bet-against-us-on-health-care-reform/comment-page-2/#comment-1494215
Tue, 14 Jul 2009 21:18:44 +0000http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/13/obama-warns-dont-bet-against-us-on-health-care-reform/#comment-1494215For the critics out there: please please do your research on the healthcare reform issue. Don’t just listen to your favorite TV character, check out the data from the WHO (world health org). In short: healthcare reform is good for everyone, in the short and long run. Those that oppose this favor ‘profit’ over health and human life…..period. The American people have been programmed to believe that health care is a privelidge while the rest of the modern worl believes it is a ‘basic right’. What’s wrong with us on this issue? When did we start valuing $$ over human life? We need to step back and seriously think about this. Unfortunately for some they will have to experience the problem before becoming a believer and then it’s often times too late for action. Now is the time. We are the ONLY modern country in the world that does healthcare for a profit. Where the only way to make profits is to deny services/care or nobody gets sick! what a system!

Please I am begging some of you to take time to do just a few minutes of legitimate research on this issue – think for yourself don’t think what the ‘screen’ tells you to!

Look, friend, why don’t you just man up and admit that your first post in this thread wasn’t perfectly phrased.

You said–and I quote yet one more time:

“70% of the people in this country”

The full sentence–lest you accuse me of taking your words out of context:

“70% of the people in this country like their insurance plan the way it is.”

As I’ve pointed out repeatedly–70% of the the people in this country don’t have employment based health insurance.

Not sure where you’re going with the whole meme about some people actually paying for their own?

What were your words exactly–ah–there they are:

“Imagine that in this country, someone who does not stand there with a hand out! ”

As I happens friend–I pay for my own health insurance.

$2300 and change per month–to BlueCross/BlueShield/NC.

And you can put me firmly in the cohort of people who think for-profit health insurance is a pox upon our nation.

As for ignoring inconvenient truths?

Um…gee…I’ve yet to see anything from you that remotely refutes the numbers I’ve laid out–including the times I’ve accepted YOUR numbers-for the sake of the argument you say liberals are unwilling to engage–as establishing that a sizable majority of all Americans support reforming the system–and furthermore, reforming it somewhere along the lines of what I suggest..

The study was conducted–not by some independent, non-partisan group–but a consulting firm (Milliman Consulting.)

The study in question was commissioned by “AHIP, AHA, Blue Cross Blue Shield Association and Premera Blue Cross to develop a best estimate of the U.S. cost shift.”

I think the truly salient factoid in there is this admission:

“…findings are based on analysis of the 2006 AHA Survey data, which. includes data on the 4,927 short-term, community hospitals across the country. The data represent each hospital’s fiscal year 2006 results.”

So lets see–I ask for independent, non-partisan evidence to support your claim–and you come back with a study from a for-hire consulting group whose bread and butter is the health care industry–being paid by some of the leading opponents of reform–using data generated by one of them.

Right O!.

Haven’t checked your Kaiser link yet–but will do so shortly.

I would suggest that any who wants to get a reality check on Jason’s assertion that Kaiser is not a vested player–with long term ties to Republicans and efforts to block health reform and government health plans should Google on Kaiser Nixon.

Where you can hear for yourself as Richard Nixon and John Erlichman say:

Ehrlichman: This—this is a—

President Nixon: I don’t [unclear]—

Ehrlichman: —private enterprise one.

President Nixon: Well, that appeals to me.

Ehrlichman: Edgar Kaiser is running his Permanente deal for profit. And the reason that he can—the reason he can do it—I had Edgar Kaiser come in—talk to me about this and I went into it in some depth. All the incentives are toward less medical care, because—

President Nixon: [Unclear.]

Ehrlichman: —the less care they give them, the more money they make.

President Nixon: Fine. [Unclear.]

Ehrlichman: [Unclear] and the incentives run the right way.

President Nixon: Not bad.

—————————————-

What else Jason?

]]>By: Jason Andrewshttp://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/13/obama-warns-dont-bet-against-us-on-health-care-reform/comment-page-2/#comment-1493245
Tue, 14 Jul 2009 15:27:42 +0000http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/13/obama-warns-dont-bet-against-us-on-health-care-reform/#comment-1493245barb-I am with you. I have no problem overhauling the way our health care works. It needs it. We do not need more government however. I think the only government plan that should be allowed will be for those who cannot afford a private insurance. If your income is below poverty level plus 50%, say, then you qualify. Or perhaps private insurers should be required to provide this, and receive a government subsidy for doing it. It could be paid for with a modest 10% tax on the income of those who are eligible and by taxing the health insurance benefits of those who receive them tax free. By having everyone pay part of the cost, it will provide more incentive to attempt to keep the costs down.
]]>By: barbhttp://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/13/obama-warns-dont-bet-against-us-on-health-care-reform/comment-page-2/#comment-1493195
Tue, 14 Jul 2009 15:02:43 +0000http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/13/obama-warns-dont-bet-against-us-on-health-care-reform/#comment-1493195@jason andrews

Your link to the Rasmussen Report was very interesting. Did you read it all or just glean out of it what info you needed to make your point?

Quote: “But 63% of voters agree with President Obama that ‘we must make it a priority to give every single American quality affordable health care.’

In December, however, 58% of voters were opposed to any kind of government plan IF IT MEANT THEY HAD TO CHANGE THEIR OWN INSURANCE COVERAGE.

They don’t, so what’s the problem?????

to pha

Just how many “YEARS” has Obama promised us health insurance???? REALLY?????

barb

]]>By: Jason Andrewshttp://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/13/obama-warns-dont-bet-against-us-on-health-care-reform/comment-page-2/#comment-1493147
Tue, 14 Jul 2009 14:31:26 +0000http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/13/obama-warns-dont-bet-against-us-on-health-care-reform/#comment-1493147Don Duval-“Out of every dollar they get from their customers–or their customers’ employers–they take 30 cents for their own use”. It is all for their own use. To pay claims. To service their customers. To pay their employees. For some reason the left repeats the “30% for profit and administration” number, which is not founded in fact. Kaiser, hardly a right leaning organization, has a breakdown on how the health care dollar gets spent.

]]>By: Jason Andrewshttp://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/13/obama-warns-dont-bet-against-us-on-health-care-reform/comment-page-2/#comment-1493129
Tue, 14 Jul 2009 14:20:57 +0000http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/13/obama-warns-dont-bet-against-us-on-health-care-reform/#comment-1493129Don Duval-You simply like to ignore the inconvenient truths. I did not revise anything in my posts, but you certainly attempt to twist facts to suit your needs. Who said anything about 70% of the population having EMPLOYER based health insurance? I didn’t. Those were your words. I said 70% of those with private health insurance like their plan now and I provided the link to back it up. Also, I said roughly 200 million have private plans. Guess what? Some people pay for their own! Imagine that in this country, someone who does not stand there with a hand out! If you take your number of roughly 60% of our population with employer programs and 9% who purchase their own, you have over 200 million people covered by private plans, just what I said. Then there is the number on Medicare and Medicaid, covered by the VA or other government program. Bottom line is, roughly 15% of our population has no insurance. Some because they cannot afford it, some because they choose to go without to attempt to save some money.
Your assertion that Medicare doesn’t underpay. Wow. You will do anything to defend big government. There was a study by a neutral consulting firm which came to the conclusion that underpayments by Medicare/Medicaid added roughly $1500 to the average annual insurance costs for a family of 4. Imagine how swell our health plan will be when it is completely under government control. We need reform, but not government control.

]]>By: NeoConVethttp://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/13/obama-warns-dont-bet-against-us-on-health-care-reform/comment-page-2/#comment-1493077
Tue, 14 Jul 2009 13:15:51 +0000http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/13/obama-warns-dont-bet-against-us-on-health-care-reform/#comment-1493077“Don’t be against…?” So lets not debate the merits, lets for sure not read any of the legislation, nor consider the cost. Lets not think about the viability of a government run program allegedly saving money (that will be a 1st!) or the rationing that will become a part of that “savings.”

I get it…we will have 5 days to review….OH that did not happen, we have an ‘emergency”….again!

If in fact, our country was broke (which is a construct I would suggest is false) in would in no small measure be the direct and sole responsibility of Republicans–who controlled Congress from 1994 to 2006–and the White House from January, 2001 until January 2009.

And in large measure because a) Bush insisted that the road to prosperity lay in giving wealthy people tax cuts they did not need and we as a nation could not afford and b) insisted we could combat terrorism globally, while fighting two major wars overseas–and put it all on the nation’s credit card.

A significant contributor to our economic woes–and the likely reason why we will go broke as a nation going forward–is our current health care financing system–in which the companies ostensibly working to provide the “insurance” that 170 million Americans are depending upon to cover their medical bills are all operating in a business model in which their profits increase as health care costs rise.

Out of every dollar they get from their customers–or their customers’ employers–they take 30 cents for their own use.

If you’re truly concerned about our federal budget–inform yourself of the facts. I guarantee you’ll end up where I am–convinced that we should move as quickly as possible to a single payer model–drawing upon the experiences of EVERY other major industrialized nation on earth–ALL of whom abandoned the for-profit, multi-payer model we continue to cling to DECADES ago–and all of whom not only–by independent, non-partisan assessments–have better health care overall than we do–they get it for 50% LESS per capita than we do.

The idea that we can’t afford to fix this problem is nonsensical–what we can’t afford is to fail to fix it.