People that are very overweight generally have an elevated daily energy expenditure. If an obese person is burning 4000 calories a day just by using that much energy by supporting their own body, then technically they can go on a high calorie diet of 3500 and still be in a 500 caloric deficit and lose weight. As they lose weight though, their caloric needs will go down and they'll hit a stall. No one is losing weight if they are taking in as much or even more than they burn though.

The question is a tautology. The definition of weight loss or weight gain (once water weight has been factored out) is an energy deficit or surplus. The argument that keeps coming back around is whether the type of calories in affects the quantity of calories out. Not whether eating a lot of butter allows one to defy the laws of thermodynamics.

In other words, the argument you're looking for proof of doesn't exist, and is nothing but a great example of the term "straw man."

My point...expressed in better words . Or at least spelled out in simple terms better for the OP.

The question is a tautology. The definition of weight loss or weight gain (once water weight has been factored out) is an energy deficit or surplus. The argument that keeps coming back around is whether the type of calories in affects the quantity of calories out. Not whether eating a lot of butter allows one to defy the laws of thermodynamics.

I think the other key component of it is the satiety/psychological aspect. Even if there's no difference in calories in or out in the short term, some paradigms may be more sustainable than others over the long term, based upon feelings of satiety, and general all-around stress levels.

I think the other key component of it is the satiety/psychological aspect. Even if there's no difference in calories in or out in the short term, some paradigms may be more sustainable than others over the long term, based upon feelings of satiety, and general all-around stress levels.

I think this part confuses people who are entrenched in CW. I never eat "diet" food or concern myself with how much fat is in my food choices. I also drink maybe a little too much beer. But I also rarely snack or eat grains, so keeping my daily calories around 1300 is pretty easy most days. I'm sure it looks as if I am eating "too much" to someone who isn't noticing what I'm not eating, or who doesn't appreciate what a huge burden grains are in the diet.