1. When Holmes fought the Frenchmen, his computer brain did not account for a bar in the way of his attack with his weapon, which allowed the Frenchmen to gain the upper hand, Daredevil would not make that mistake.

2. At the end of the first movie Holmes was fighting a shoalin monk and did not defeat him on his own. In fact it could be argued that holmes was on the losing end of that fight. I would think Frank and Matt would handle that guy.

1. When Holmes fought the Frenchmen, his computer brain did not account for a bar in the way of his attack with his weapon, which allowed the Frenchmen to gain the upper hand, Daredevil would not make that mistake.

Exactly. People thinking Holmes would have better spacial awareness than Daredevil are just silly.

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2. At the end of the first movie Holmes was fighting a shoalin monk and did not defeat him on his own. In fact it could be argued that holmes was on the losing end of that fight. I would think Frank and Matt would handle that guy.

That was brought up earlier. He was beating Holmes, so he asked Irene to shoot him. It was just a random martial arts dude, too.

1. When Holmes fought the Frenchmen, his computer brain did not account for a bar in the way of his attack with his weapon, which allowed the Frenchmen to gain the upper hand, Daredevil would not make that mistake.

Exactly. People thinking Holmes would have better spacial awareness than Daredevil are just silly.

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2. At the end of the first movie Holmes was fighting a shoalin monk and did not defeat him on his own. In fact it could be argued that holmes was on the losing end of that fight. I would think Frank and Matt would handle that guy.

That was brought up earlier. He was beating Holmes, so he asked Irene to shoot him. It was just a random martial arts dude, too.

Seems to me Holmes' computer brain is capable of keeping him as a skilled street leveler, without any formal training that is. Basically a replacement for formal training. But when he fights someone with adept skills, it kinda washes out his fight calculations.

1. When Holmes fought the Frenchmen, his computer brain did not account for a bar in the way of his attack with his weapon, which allowed the Frenchmen to gain the upper hand, Daredevil would not make that mistake.

Exactly. People thinking Holmes would have better spacial awareness than Daredevil are just silly.

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2. At the end of the first movie Holmes was fighting a shoalin monk and did not defeat him on his own. In fact it could be argued that holmes was on the losing end of that fight. I would think Frank and Matt would handle that guy.

That was brought up earlier. He was beating Holmes, so he asked Irene to shoot him. It was just a random martial arts dude, too.

Seems to me Holmes' computer brain is capable of keeping him as a skilled street leveler, without any formal training that is. Basically a replacement for formal training. But when he fights someone with adept skills, it kinda washes out his fight calculations.

I don't think he started using his calculations until near the end with the "taser" on the big man.

1. When Holmes fought the Frenchmen, his computer brain did not account for a bar in the way of his attack with his weapon, which allowed the Frenchmen to gain the upper hand, Daredevil would not make that mistake.

Exactly. People thinking Holmes would have better spacial awareness than Daredevil are just silly.

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2. At the end of the first movie Holmes was fighting a shoalin monk and did not defeat him on his own. In fact it could be argued that holmes was on the losing end of that fight. I would think Frank and Matt would handle that guy.

That was brought up earlier. He was beating Holmes, so he asked Irene to shoot him. It was just a random martial arts dude, too.

Seems to me Holmes' computer brain is capable of keeping him as a skilled street leveler, without any formal training that is. Basically a replacement for formal training. But when he fights someone with adept skills, it kinda washes out his fight calculations.

I don't think he started using his calculations until near the end with the "taser" on the big man.

I don't think he started using his calculations until near the end with the "taser" on the big man.

Maybe but it was a desperation move as he was getting choked out and that thing was the only weapon in reach.

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A boxing champion with a genius that allowed him to operate on nigh on Precog levels.....hardly "just" a boxing champion.

In terms of his learned fighting skills, boxing was all he had, that was the point. Moriarty being a genius with deductive abilities could only take him so far. Using boxing moves, he would have gotten through Holmes' defenses to exploit his stab wound, showing that boxing skills can potentially give Holmes trouble. I think it's safe to say that if Holmes didn't have a damaged shoulder, he would win in a fight, but it should be pointed out that Holmes would take note of someone with really good boxing skills as a potential threat in a fist fight.

Also, stop calling it precog. They are insanely good at deduction, but they aren't seeing into the future or anything.

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By comparison; his fight against a "boxer" who was notably larger than him at the beginning of the movie only lasts for as long as he doesn't take it seriously.

That fighter got in a few good punches and on two occasions, pinned Holmes against the wall momentarily. Holmes still won the fight, especially when it got serious, but a pit fighter can still get his hits in before going down.

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The moment he did, even up against a guy with a good amount more muscle than him, it ends at just about that moment.

Are you talking about the Frenchman? I posted that fight in this thread, it's pretty long and the guy was clearly out of Holmes' league.

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Holmes big problem is basically referenced with his fight against the Big Guy; he has a lot less of a tendency to actually "use" his predicto-vision/genius insight in a fight than you think he would.

Even showing weapons that they hadn't drawn yet and the exact movement of multiple people down to a "T".

Is it precog? No because they can still make mistakes or miss stuff.

But it is insanely accurate and can take in the environment.

I'm not talking about the Big Guy but the big fighter from the beginning of movie in the pit fight.

Holmes spends a lot of time playing around, just basically fighting the guy, slapping him on the head, at one point pays attention to the crowd for attention instead of the fighter, like a pro wrestler or something, but the moment he actually bothers to use his "predicto-vision" and fight, the battle ends almost automatically against a notably bigger opponent.

Moriarty's primary fight set was boxing but he was good enough that despite Holmes more versatile fighting style, would probably be able to get a win in more often than not.

Someone who is essentially a "super-genius at boxing" isn't exactly "Just a boxer". Kind of down playing it is what I'm saying.

And I would actually agree with you about the taser/predicto-vision.

He tends to use it more out of desperation than as a go-to ability.

We see that with the goons, the Big Man, The Pit Fighter, I can't even recall if he actually used it for the Assassin or not. He only used it at one point around the end of his fight with Blackwood.

Probably Holmes egotism as much as anything else. Almost can't conceive of needing it until he absolutely does.

I call it precog because it damn near is. ... But it is insanely accurate and can take in the environment.

That's what it is. Insanely accurate. As crazy as it is, it's not like he has a super power. It's similar to when an action movie character throws a guy across the room. It's inhuman but no one should consider that guy having super strength or anything. There are limits.

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Holmes spends a lot of time playing around, just basically fighting the guy, slapping him on the head, at one point pays attention to the crowd for attention instead of the fighter, like a pro wrestler or something, but the moment he actually bothers to use his "predicto-vision" and fight, the battle ends almost automatically against a notably bigger opponent.

Sure. Like I said, he got serious after he was spit on. Still, that pitfighter got in a few hits and pinned Holmes against a wall twice. He was soundly beaten, but he still had the strength and skill to get a few shots in when he could, meaning Holmes isn't perfect.

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Moriarty's primary fight set was boxing but he was good enough that despite Holmes more versatile fighting style, would probably be able to get a win in more often than not. Someone who is essentially a "super-genius at boxing" isn't exactly "Just a boxer". Kind of down playing it is what I'm saying.

No one said Moriarty was "just a boxer".

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And I would actually agree with you about the taser/predicto-vision. He tends to use it more out of desperation than as a go-to ability. We see that with the goons, the Big Man, The Pit Fighter, I can't even recall if he actually used it for the Assassin or not. He only used it at one point around the end of his fight with Blackwood.

He usually uses it when he has a chance to stop and think. When he used it against the goons, it was after having snuck up on them. When he used it in the pitfight, it was because he stopped for a second. The assassin at the beginning of the second movie was hiding, so he used it, but Nomi Rapace's character threw him off by doing something unpredictable. Also, there were the guys at the market place who were beating him until some cops came by. Everyone sort of backed off until they left and Holmes figured out how to beat them in those few moments.