As many of you know, I was one of a few that was a big fan of Russell Wilson's NFL prospects before the draft. I viewed him as the Tom Brady type steal that could be seen coming. Upon scouting and researching him in college, I did not find evidence of his height effecting his results. Wilson became a Seahawk, and soon posted one of the best QB performances in the preseason among not just rookies, but veterans too. A month ago, I really believed that Russell Wilson could be our version of a rookie Cam Newton or Big Ben. I thought Seattle had an excellent chance to be playing in this year's Superbowl.

Instead, Russell Wilson has shown struggles in multiple areas that I've never seen from him before. His pocket presence went from a strength to a problem. His ability to read the field has gone from a strength to a problem. He seems much more uncomfortable handling pressure than before. His accuracy/control/location was mostly outstanding at Wisconsin, but has looked highly suspect at times over the first four games of this season. While it's probably true that Wilson is being held back by a conservative offense, I feel that his problems stem well beyond that right now.

I'm not panicking, because many of Wilson's issues could just be part of "promotion sickness" as I call it. If you follow baseball at all, then you know not to expect your ace hitting prospect who's batting .330 in Triple-A to bat .330 immediately in the Major Leagues. Doubly so if you are a Mariners fan. Michael Saunders- who put the team through three years of crap before finally becoming solidly good this year- is the best position player prospect success story the team can point to in recent history. With very few exceptions, there is an adjustment period to be expected. I was hoping that Wilson could be that exception, but so far it looks like we'll have to wait on him like almost everyone else. I don't think it will take nearly as long as Saunders did, but we now know that Wilson will require more time to excel than none at all.

While I haven't given up hope completely, the early returns suggest a very different 2012 season, one in which the team is continuing to build instead of competing immediately for a championship.

When John Schneider first came here, he talked about a 4 year plan. Year one was about adding as much talent as possible while turning over the roster like crazy. Year two was about fixing the O-line and D-line. Year three was about fixing the pass rush. Next year is year four, and we've been told by a certain net Nostradamus that it was meant to be the year of the QB in this plan, at least until Flynn and Wilson changed things. Or did they? I guess we'll find out.

When I finished college and got my degree, I wasn't very motivated about getting a job. I have a degree in recording arts communication, and jobs in that field are really hard to break into. After a time, my dad started to pressure me about my career search. He'd ask me questions, asking me what I had done that week or what I was planning on doing the next day. He wanted to see signs of progress. Every time I'd come up with something clever to say, but ultimately the lack of results led to a building sense of well deserved cynicism.

And I totally understand why he would react that way. Let's say you need a 50 page report that requires much research and effort, and it's due in a month. A week in, you ask this person how things are going. He provides no real evidence of progress, but tells you that things are going fine. Two weeks in, you ask again. Again, he shows no evidence of work but assures you that everything is on schedule. Weeks three and four come and go with no changes. It's the day before the due date, and this person has still not produced any signs of progress. How optimistic would you feel about having that 50 page report ready by D-day?

Something I've learned is that showing signs of progress is important. It's like a down payment of trust- something that builds good faith and confidence.

I mean no disrespect and am not trying to call anyone out, but I've heard many say that they need to see wins now and have (by my interpretation) inferred that they may revoke their full support if the immediate winning doesn't happen. I think that kind of talk is completely understandable, but also a year early. John Schneider is presumably on a 5 year contract (as Pete Carroll is). He could have said that he would build this team on a 5 year plan, but he didn't. He also did not say that he would build it on a 3 year plan. He specifically said 4 years. And we are in year 3.

This team still has problems, but I think it's important to remember the good faith this regime has built up. After year one, regime team set out to add as much talent as possible, leaving no stone unturned. They did exactly that, improving the team by two wins and drafting two pro-bowlers (Thomas, Chancellor) and three others who are quality starters (Okung, McCoy, Tate), in addition to several low profile free agents that helped the team win an unexpected division title. In year two, they set out to fix the lines. They did exactly that: by the end of the 2011 season our O-line was playing on a high level and our Bryant-Branch-Mebane-Clemons D-line was an above average group. As an added bonus, they created an elite young secondary on the cheap. In year three they set out to improve the pass rush and increase the speed of the defense. The early returns are promising. Not among those stated year 3 goals was getting a franchise QB. Instead it was merely to find competition for Tarvaris Jackson. They brought in two quarterbacks with this purpose in mind, and it was so successful that Jackson isn't even here anymore after he was outplayed by both of them.

I haven't given up on this season. I think Seattle is a playoff caliber team, and in almost any other division, we'd probably be 1st place right now. I haven't given up on Russell Wilson as a rookie winner. But even if Seattle fails to overachieve, that's okay, because they were overachieving by even being in this position. This regime has been very successful reaching their stated goals thus far. Who would bet against them if their stated goal this offseason is improving the pass offense?

They say it takes one to know one, and I know better than most what an excuse making slacker looks like. These guys, they ain't it. They are hard workers who know what they are doing, and they do exactly what they say they will do. They do not make excuses; they make a way.

In August of 2011, this team was a favorite in the race to win the Luck sweepstakes. The Seahawks opened a majority of national "power polls" at #32. That is no insult to this regime- still new at the time- it simply shows how big of a hole they were digging out of. Just one year later Bill Simmons- an ESPN writer and Patriots fan- predicted the Seahawks would make the Superbowl.

Whether Wilson ends up being our franchise savior in 2012 or 2013, or whether that franchise savior ends up being a new face in 2013, I'm just going to shut up and strap in for the ride. This team is talent overkill. It's a stick of dynamite soaked in kerosene. A quality quarterback is the match. We are frustrated right now because we are all like giddy 13 year old pyromaniacs off their Ritalin standing in front of this bonanza, but we can't seem to find the damn matchbox. When that match will light is anyone's guess, but when it does I would advise getting some distance and avoiding direct eye contact without wearing a welding mask.

Like 2011, I expect 2012 to be an evolving season. Our 3rd and long defense can't play this poorly all season while playing so well at everything else. Our passing offense isn't going to be elite, but it will figure things out. It will improve as experience is gained, adjustments are made, and chemistry is developed. Pete Carroll has already said that he will scale up the offense as the season rolls along. You can logically expect for things to get better before the season is over.

Whatever happens this season, let's not lose sight of the shimmering treasure trove we are sitting on right now. This team is young and this team has almost everything you'd want outside of a great QB, and it's being led by people who have a knack for accomplishing their goals. They told us to wait four years. They have exceeded our expectations wildly through three. If there was ever a time to look at a 2-2 record with a glass half full mentality, this is it. When Pete and John came to town, they had a very tough task in front of them, but everything I have seen so far has created more than enough good faith that they will come through for us by the appointed time, if not sooner.

Everything you wrote is true, and is an echo of what goes through my head most days, BUT, I do have an issue with an item you did not mention.

PLAYCALLING. It is all well and good to look at the big picture progress, which has been tremarkably steady, if not always remarkable. The STRATEGY seems to be sound and successful.

However, the TACTICS leave much to be desired . . if your strength is power running, why do tricky pitch outs and passes on 3rd and short . why go away from yopur strength in exactly the situations where your strength is what you need?

I am not on thefire Bevell wagon, but I sure wish Pete would light a fire under his arse and get him playing to our strength.The Seahawks have established themselves as a smashmout, brutal team, yet when smashmouth is called for, DB tries to use finesse.

ENOUGH I say, let the team kick some tail out there, and therest can fall into place.

Glad to see a rational post around here after our devastating blowout loss to the Rams. The way I see it, we won 2 games I believed we'd lose, and lost 2 real close games I thought we had a good chance of winning. Our run-game is phenomenal, our defense is top-ten for sure, and we're playing with a later-round rookie QB. 2-2 is not a season ending start by any means. I'm just along for the ride this season, and overall LOVING it! Still excited about this team. Yet, I'm still entitled to the day-after naysaying. lol. Things are gonna turn the corner, I can feel it.

The recent hysteria regarding Mr. Wilson is directly correlated to the 21st century mentality of the "I want it now mindset". Much of what now happens in our lives is "instant gratification" often do to the "computer age" in which we live. There are some things that do not happen as fast as we like....this is especially true of things once one passes the age of 60. There are always disppointments when expectations do not meet reality. Take marriage for example..... Choosing an NFL QB to lead your team is sort of like getting married...you have to take the good with the bad. It appears that there are posters on here who wish to change QB's as often as they change the sheets on their bed!

It just kills me when we start a rookie when we absolutely don't HAVE to and it will always be completely befuddling to me how people didn't expect Wilson to struggle like this.

Good post though Kearly. My worry is for a lot of teams, due to free agency, injuries, and just bad luck, that the window of success is a lot smaller than we think. There have been plenty of teams who were young and talented who never made the leap due to bad luck or mismanagement of the quarterback situations. This team, right now, is a playoff caliber, maybe even championship caliber, team at 21 of 22 positions. We don't know what its going to look like next year, but we know what we have this year, which is a damn good team with a shaky rookie qb. This is the absolute perfect team for a quarterback like Matt Flynn and I've always felt that way. I'm not disregarding the progress or the process, but there is a real opportunity to win big, right now, not next year, but this year. Why not take it?

This is a great post once again by Kearly. I don't think people should be freaking out about being 2-2. A lot of teams around the league are going to have their ups and downs. I'd rather be the Seahawks than the Patriots or the Jets right now. If they told RW to go out and try to be a gunslinging qb like Brady or Brees right off the bat, we would have had games where he was getting sacked and hit more and with more pics. That would not be the way to break him in. I agree with the conservative approach, though I do take issue with the 3rd down playcalling. There I would have stuck to the conservative. I am confident that Baldwin will develop chemistry with RW like he did with TJ and become a third down stud a la Engram. Right off the bat Wilson has had rushers in his face like Jackson did last year and Hasselbeck in his last stages here. He has avoided losses very well and turned it up field a few times. It would've been worse with Flynn. I think the mobile qb is the way of the future in the NFL. This combined with a power running game will give us an edge. I really like what I saw out of Turbin on Sunday. He can lighten the load for Lynch to preserve him a bit. I'd start benching guys for 15 yard penalties. I predict a strong victory over the Panthers Sunday.

Sorry, though. Unlike you, I did not want to lose for draft position in 2010. And I felt rewarded and vindicated in that approach by the BeastQuake playoff victory.

In 2011, I was not on board with you and 50% or more of this fanbase who wanted the Seattle Seahawks to 'Suck For Luck'. I was not comfortable with losing in the moment. I was not content with concrete failures today in exchange for the fantasy of successes tomorrow.

In the same fashion. I am NOT comfortable with these unnecessary losses in 2012. In the preseason while others were picking sides i decided that whichever quarterback steps behind center would become saddled with my expectation that he do enough to lead this team to victories. I echo the words of Seahawk2K, above. This team is built to win and right now RW is holding it back.

Already, after week 4, Seahawks fans are starting to talk about next year in glowing terms like some default coping mechanism against broken dreams.

"Some people here have been groomed to accept mediocrity and lame ducks, I'm on board with the vibrato!" -SouthSoundHawk "BFS is kicking ass in here." -kearly (8/9/2013)

MontanaHawk05 wrote:Our line is playing top-caliber in run-blocking, but not at all in pass protection. That's part of Wilson's problem.

DeMarcus Ware and Clay Matthews found them to be adequate. Wilson gets the benefit of the doubt from every angle? It's the OC. It's the OLine. It's Pete handcuffing him. It's the receivers. It's anything BUT Wilson. He is like the anti-TJack.

"Some people here have been groomed to accept mediocrity and lame ducks, I'm on board with the vibrato!" -SouthSoundHawk "BFS is kicking ass in here." -kearly (8/9/2013)

MontanaHawk05 wrote:Our line is playing top-caliber in run-blocking, but not at all in pass protection. That's part of Wilson's problem.

DeMarcus Ware and Clay Matthews found them to be adequate.

Ware and Matthews are edge rushers. Perhaps what I should have said is interior O-line, and not just for pass-blocking but to open up sight lanes for Wilson. This realization came a little late in the season for us, but Wilson was always going to need a dominant interior line. Right now, they aren't getting the job done consistently. I thought they showed improvement early on Sunday, though.

MontanaHawk05 wrote:Our line is playing top-caliber in run-blocking, but not at all in pass protection. That's part of Wilson's problem.

DeMarcus Ware and Clay Matthews found them to be adequate. Wilson gets the benefit of the doubt from every angle? It's the OC. It's the OLine. It's Pete handcuffing him. It's the receivers. It's anything BUT Wilson. He is like the anti-TJack.

Actually, it's all of those things AND it's Wilson. I don't agree with people who are absolving him of all blame for the passing game struggles, but I damn sure don't agree with people who are pegging him as the only thing holding the offense back.

He needs to improve. The receivers need to improve. The pass blocking needs to improve. And the best way for all of those groups - Wilson included - to improve is to gain more experience, build chemistry, and start executing better, which is best done in game situations.

Sorry, though. Unlike you, I did not want to lose for draft position in 2010. And I felt rewarded and vindicated in that approach by the BeastQuake playoff victory.

In 2011, I was not on board with you and 50% or more of this fanbase who wanted the Seattle Seahawks to 'Suck For Luck'. I was not comfortable with losing in the moment. I was not content with concrete failures today in exchange for the fantasy of successes tomorrow.

In the same fashion. I am NOT comfortable with these unnecessary losses in 2012. In the preseason while others were picking sides i decided that whichever quarterback steps behind center would become saddled with my expectation that he do enough to lead this team to victories. I echo the words of Seahawk2K, above. This team is built to win and right now RW is holding it back.

Already, after week 4, Seahawks fans are starting to talk about next year in glowing terms like some default coping mechanism against broken dreams.

I didn't take from the post that he was rooting for draft position in 2010 or 2011, just that we were in position for it, and pegged for it by many pundits. No matter if you were rooting for "Suck for Luck" or not that year, at the beginning of the year there was a ton of talk that we were in the mix, whether we wanted to be or not. Appears to me he was just stating how things were then.

This team is 3/4ths built to win right now, and quarterback is only partially holding us back. We're suddenly expecting the world of Wilson, like he's supposed to be some veteran presence, carrying the team on his back, singlehandedly willing the team to victory after victory. He's still growing, learning, but he's absolutely the right piece in the puzzle. He doesn't quite fit yet because we don't have all the surrounding pieces in place. Next year, year four of the four-year plan, we hopefully will, and then this team will be one of the elite, dominating teams in the league. Right now we are far head of last year. We've been in a position to win every single game against some very tough defenses. We've lost to two teams: an unbeaten team, and a team that has as many wins as nine other teams in the league.

On that final drive against the Rams, I felt - for the first time in a long, long time - confident we'd finish that drive with a touchdown to win the game. I sincerely believe we would have if the receiver wouldn't have slipped on the route, or even if the defensive back weren't in the exact right place to make the catch. Wilson brings something to the table that many of our previous quarterbacks did not. He brings the hope and confidence that we can snatch victory from the jaws of defeat, instead of the other way around.

"The ultimate number is W's, and that’s what matters in Santa Clara. As such, Jed York does not own the 49ers; Russell Wilson does." - Paul Gutierrez

Sorry, though. Unlike you, I did not want to lose for draft position in 2010. And I felt rewarded and vindicated in that approach by the BeastQuake playoff victory.

In 2011, I was not on board with you and 50% or more of this fanbase who wanted the Seattle Seahawks to 'Suck For Luck'. I was not comfortable with losing in the moment. I was not content with concrete failures today in exchange for the fantasy of successes tomorrow.

In the same fashion. I am NOT comfortable with these unnecessary losses in 2012. In the preseason while others were picking sides i decided that whichever quarterback steps behind center would become saddled with my expectation that he do enough to lead this team to victories. I echo the words of Seahawk2K, above. This team is built to win and right now RW is holding it back.

Already, after week 4, Seahawks fans are starting to talk about next year in glowing terms like some default coping mechanism against broken dreams.

I didn't take from the post that he was rooting for draft position in 2010 or 2011, just that we were in position for it, and pegged for it by many pundits. No matter if you were rooting for "Suck for Luck" or not that year, at the beginning of the year there was a ton of talk that we were in the mix, whether we wanted to be or not. Appears to me he was just stating how things were then.

Nope. Kearly and I went back and forth about it at the time. It was then that I declared him and some of what he stands for as my mortal enemy. I have archived everything he has ever said and am formulating a spreadsheet detailing his contradictions and shortcomings.

"Some people here have been groomed to accept mediocrity and lame ducks, I'm on board with the vibrato!" -SouthSoundHawk "BFS is kicking ass in here." -kearly (8/9/2013)

kearly wrote:Whether Wilson ends up being our franchise savior in 2012 or 2013, or whether that franchise savior ends up being a new face in 2013, I'm just going to shut up and strap in for the ride. This team is talent overkill. It's a stick of dynamite soaked in kerosene. A quality quarterback is the match. We are frustrated right now because we are all like giddy 13 year old pyromaniacs off their Ritalin standing in front of this bonanza, but we can't seem to find the damn matchbox. When that match will light is anyone's guess, but when it does I would advise getting some distance and avoiding direct eye contact without wearing a welding mask.

they have a 4 year plan and thats good but pete did himself a disservice by selecting to start a rookie qb and crowing about how good everything is around the vmac all summer. since then things have gotten off to a rough start, which is understandable but ridiculously frustrating. his plan is a good thing to have as a framework but when he tells you he is going off course for his own ego and it doesn't work out, the last thing you want to hear is how great his plan is working. its salt in the wound at that point. its just better for him to accept that a problem he started needs more of his attention, but its now too late for personnel changes so we have to adjust what the player is allowed/can do.

The 4-year plan, while valid, should not be used as a crutch or an excuse for the in-season tactical things this team is failing.

Play calling, penalties, playing soft on 3rd down defense and red zone ineptness cannot be excused away as a victim of the 4-year plan. In my best Herman Edwards voice, you "play to win the game". While I agree the rebuilding project is not complete (it was made even more obvious when we totally ignored the offense outside of Robert Turbin in the draft), we are losing games not because of inferior talent but because of poor coaching and mistakes.

PS Kip - I'm not saying YOU are using it as an excuse. I just don't want people tp jump on the back of it and wave the flag.

FlyingGreg wrote:The 4-year plan, while valid, should not be used as a crutch or an excuse for the in-season tactical things this team is failing.

Play calling, penalties, playing soft on 3rd down defense and red zone ineptness cannot be excused away as a victim of the 4-year plan. In my best Herman Edwards voice, you "play to win the game". While I agree the rebuilding project is not complete (it was made even more obvious when we totally ignored the offense outside of Robert Turbin in the draft), we are losing games not because of inferior talent but because of poor coaching and mistakes.

PS Kip - I'm not saying YOU are using it as an excuse. I just don't want people tp jump on the back of it and wave the flag.

Good points. I mentioned before that I think that Schneider was being pretty specific when he mentioned that there was a 4-year plan in place. I think that's how long he determined it would take for the team to get the types of players they desired in place at all positions and then to get them to develop cohesiveness, chemistry, etc.

Of course, that's still only a plan. I think there are probably areas where things have come together quicker than expected (the secondary, perhaps) and areas where things have taken longer than they'd like (O-line, for example). I think this is still a team that's developing. I don't think it's close to a finished product that can enter maintenance mode yet, and I absolutely don't believe they're just a different QB away from SB contender status (unless, perhaps, that QB is the 2003-2009 version of Peyton Manning - who, as I understand, is not available due to the undeveloped nature of time travel).

The plan can explain why we might continue to see youth being developed at some positions, but it doesn't excuse the unnecessary penalties and the poor coaching decisions (like onside kicks to start the 2nd half when it's a 1 score game).

I'd agree with you if the ENTIRE team was still growing along with Wilson.

But it's not, this team is built to compete for a Superbowl NOW, not in four years. We have all the other pieces in place, a top 5 defense, the #1 running attack in the league, and a very good special teams. All that's missing is a QB that can read a defense, convert on 3rd downs, and make a couple plays a game to score more than 10 points a game.

You might be right, Wilson could be the answer........but he's not the answer in 2012. Flynn gives us the best chance to win NOW.

Bigpumpkin wrote:The recent hysteria regarding Mr. Wilson is directly correlated to the 21st century mentality of the "I want it now mindset". Much of what now happens in our lives is "instant gratification" often do to the "computer age" in which we live. There are some things that do not happen as fast as we like....this is especially true of things once one passes the age of 60. There are always disppointments when expectations do not meet reality. Take marriage for example..... Choosing an NFL QB to lead your team is sort of like getting married...you have to take the good with the bad. It appears that there are posters on here who wish to change QB's as often as they change the sheets on their bed!

C'mon man, come up with something original that you actually thought of. That old line is BS anyway, about the computer age. People have always been inpatient, especially Americans.

Missing_Clink wrote:Sure would be a shame to waste the good years Marshawn has left to see if Russell can play. It makes far more sense to see at least what Flynn can do given how good this team is.

This.

People talk of this 3 year or so window but I see a 1 year window with a pretty healthy team.Lynch, Rice, Clemons, Okung, Moffit, Carpenter ect... all could be out of the picture in a flash.

I believe still we are very close to having what we need to go deep into playoffs now. Wait for nothing, play to win, and start coaching to win now!

1 year window? Screw that. I want to contend EVERY year, like the Steelers, Patriots, Ravens, etc. And that requires players to develop. We had O-linemen develop last season. We had secondary guys develop the year before that. We've got a QB developing now.

As for players who could be out of the picture in a flash, this is the NFL. That applies to every player on every team. Useless as a scare tactic.

Really good discussion in this thread. Parts of me agree with all of you. I always thought starting Flynn. Would be better for the team. Figured he would get hurt at so e point this year and RW would take over and never look back, leaving Flynn as awesome trade bait. I have my doubs we would be 2-2 flynn though.

Missing_Clink wrote:Sure would be a shame to waste the good years Marshawn has left to see if Russell can play. It makes far more sense to see at least what Flynn can do given how good this team is.

This.

People talk of this 3 year or so window but I see a 1 year window with a pretty healthy team.Lynch, Rice, Clemons, Okung, Moffit, Carpenter ect... all could be out of the picture in a flash.

I believe still we are very close to having what we need to go deep into playoffs now. Wait for nothing, play to win, and start coaching to win now!

And I think you also have to consider that this defense has a lot of young guys who are underpaid given their performance. Can the team afford to keep all of its star young defensive players when it comes time for their second contracts? Maybe the length of their various contracts makes keeping most of them more feasible, I really don't know. My point is that it would be a shame for NFL economics to force at least a partial breakup of this awesome Defense, and then we all lament that they missed their window because the offense was just so bad while the team waited to see if RW3 can play.

volsunghawk wrote:1 year window? Screw that. I want to contend EVERY year, like the Steelers, Patriots, Ravens, etc. And that requires players to develop.

So do I but my main point is, the window of certainty is here now. Next year yes, we build, plan and hope to be there, but it is the future and is not a reality yet, and history proves it cannot be relied upon.

sam1313 wrote:Really good discussion in this thread. Parts of me agree with all of you. I always thought starting Flynn. Would be better for the team. Figured he would get hurt at so e point this year and RW would take over and never look back, leaving Flynn as awesome trade bait. I have my doubs we would be 2-2 flynn though.

This is the problem I have with Carroll's "unconventional" way of coaching.

Common sense says you signed Flynn, he's the more capable QB to start now with how good the rest of our team is. Flynn can read defenses, go through progressions faster and more times than not throw to the right spot and change plays when needed.

Why did Carroll rush Wilson into the starting job? There was no need, let the guy sit, learn the league and in a year or two if Flynn doesn't work out you bring him in. I just never saw the reason to rush Wilson, and now we're paying for it with the worst passing offense in the league.

volsunghawk wrote:1 year window? Screw that. I want to contend EVERY year, like the Steelers, Patriots, Ravens, etc. And that requires players to develop.

So do I but my main point is, the window of certainty is here now. Next year yes, we build, plan and hope to be there, but it is the future and is not a reality yet, and history proves it cannot be relied upon.

I don't think any "certainty" is here yet. I think we've made big strides, but we're still a work in progress. Our defense is better than we've ever seen it, but we still give up too many 3rd and longs and our pass rush disappears on the road. Our run offense is the most reliable unit on the team, imo. Our O-line isn't a SB-caliber pass blocking unit by ANY stretch of the imagination, and we commit too many penalties. Our WR corps needs to develop some consistency, and we need better play from the QB position. We also need better playcalling.

Those things above tell me that while our talent and our strengths indicate that we can make the postseason, where anything can happen, we're not quite yet a SB-caliber team just waiting for a QB to step in and make it happen. It's going to require improvement from all positions, together.

Sgt. Largent wrote:Why did Carroll rush Wilson into the starting job? There was no need, let the guy sit, learn the league and in a year or two if Flynn doesn't work out you bring him in. I just never saw the reason to rush Wilson, and now we're paying for it with the worst passing offense in the league.

Carroll had no choice, he opened up the competition and Wilson won when it counted, plus Flynn developed an arm issue (all be it questionable how bad). Even me as a Flynn supporter was able to concede that.

That said things have now changed and the question only re appears because of that. I don't even think you give Flynn the year or 2...just the 4-5 games you gave Wilson to really give a good comparison. They competed under terrible conditions. 13 Wr's many of which are not in the league, Lynch mostly unavailable, Rice and Baldwin unavailable ect. Now is the time see IMO.

Sgt. Largent wrote:Why did Carroll rush Wilson into the starting job? There was no need, let the guy sit, learn the league and in a year or two if Flynn doesn't work out you bring him in. I just never saw the reason to rush Wilson, and now we're paying for it with the worst passing offense in the league.

Carroll had no choice, he opened up the competition and Wilson won when it counted, plus Flynn developed an arm issue (all be it questionable how bad). Even me as a Flynn supporter was able to concede that.

Errr.......yeah, not sold on the Flynn arm issue thing. To me that's a backdoor excuse Carroll can sneak out of when he's taking heat for his decision to start a rookie QB. "Well I had no choice people! Matt's got that bum elbow for not throwing for six straight weeks while holding a clipboard! Yeah, that's the ticket!"

I also think it was a little naive of Carroll to put so much stock in Wilson's pre-season. Yes Wilson was great, but it was still the pre-season. No one tries, and no one schemes. Add in the fact that 2 out of Wilson's 3 pre-season games was against 2nd and 3rd stringers, most of which aren't even in the league anymore.

As I started to read the OP I fugured you were going to go into a I was wrong about Wilson slant. I like your state of the franchise take that you took. We all need a reality check in that this is a process. Prior to the start of the season, I figured the Seahawks would be 2-2 after the first 4, got the record right, just not who they beat. I also looked at the schedule and figured if they can make it through the first half of the season at 4-4, then 10 or 12 wins is very likely. 5 of the last 8 are at home. road games at Miami (winnable), Chicago (tough) and Buffalo(winnable).I think you may be holding something back on your analysis of Wilson. You stated that he is doing things that you haven't seen him do before. Rookie growing pains? Probably

volsunghawk wrote:I don't think any "certainty" is here yet. I think we've made big strides, but we're still a work in progress.

By certainty I mean there appears to be enough in place to make a run this year. The details obviously are not certain. Top 5 defense, top 5 RB, good special teams are certain at this point. We have a chance to win every game so far, certain. Offense being the question mark (including coaching yes), and point of discussion as what to do. IMO we need around a #20 or better O to win, and it's possible to get there.

Agree on WIP, but all teams will always be a work in progress to some point though.

Sgt. Largent wrote:But it's not, this team is built to compete for a Superbowl NOW, not in four years. We have all the other pieces in place, a top 5 defense, the #1 running attack in the league, and a very good special teams.

I don't agree. I don't think our offensive line is ready to consistently pass-protect yet, and I don't think our receiving corps is nearly good enough. Most quarterbacks would be running into trouble in the passing game with those issues. We're not there yet.

I love how people can say in one breath that they want to be like the Patriots or the Ravens or the Steelers, only to advocate firing everyone and starting over in the next. Rebuilds like that take time and perhaps more importantly a little consistency.

Everyone keeps stressing about how our window is *NOW*. Get outta here. Our window is not RIGHT NOW, it's right around the corner. Likely even next year. Hell, we might even be in a position to make a late season rush at the end of this year, but we need to let it all come together first. The herbs and spices are in place, just need to let it marinate. Have to give it some time to let the yeast rise. Additional generic cooking metaphor.

We have lots of time. TONS. Marshawn will be 27 next year, that's at least 2 years of prime time left (and we have a very young and apparently very capable Bob Turbin sitting behind him). Earl Thomas, KJ Wright and James Carpenter are just babies at 23; they litterally have entire careers left. Ditto for Dick Sherman, Chancellor, Tate, McCoy and Okung who are all 24. Bobby Wagner and Bobby Turbin are only 22! Shit I have jerseys in my closet older than that! The only guys I'm even kinda worried about are Clemons and Browner, but Irvin appears to be getting it and Browner's style doesn't really depend on having blazing top speed so he might be able to keep it up into his 30's. Other than that... this is a seriously young team.

So seriously, all this "OUR WINDOW IS NOW!! DOMINATE NOW!! SUPERBOWL NOW!!" bull shit just needs to frakkin stop. Get off the ledge, take a xanax and down it with a nice sharaz because you people are bug shit crazy and are going to give yourselves a stroke. Just hurry up and be patient. Like right now! I SAID BE PATIENT DAMMIT!!!

I love how people can say in one breath that they want to be like the Patriots or the Ravens or the Steelers, only to advocate firing everyone and starting over in the next. Rebuilds like that take time and perhaps more importantly a little consistency.

Everyone keeps stressing about how our window is *NOW*. Get outta here. Our window is not RIGHT NOW, it's right around the corner. Likely even next year. Hell, we might even be in a position to make a late season rush at the end of this year, but we need to let it all come together first. The herbs and spices are in place, just need to let it marinate. Have to give it some time to let the yeast rise. Additional generic cooking metaphor.

We have lots of time. TONS. Marshawn will be 27 next year, that's at least 2 years of prime time left (and we have a very young and apparently very capable Bob Turbin sitting behind him). Earl Thomas, KJ Wright and James Carpenter are just babies at 23; they litterally have entire careers left. Ditto for Dick Sherman, Chancellor, Tate, McCoy and Okung who are all 24. Bobby Wagner and Bobby Turbin are only 22! Shit I have jerseys in my closet older than that! The only guys I'm even kinda worried about are Clemons and Browner, but Irvin appears to be getting it and Browner's style doesn't really depend on having blazing top speed so he might be able to keep it up into his 30's. Other than that... this is a seriously young team.

So seriously, all this "OUR WINDOW IS NOW!! DOMINATE NOW!! SUPERBOWL NOW!!" bull shit just needs to frakkin stop. Get off the ledge, take a xanax and down it with a nice sharaz because you people are bug shit crazy and are going to give yourselves a stroke. Just hurry up and be patient. Like right now! I SAID BE PATIENT DAMMIT!!!

In the last 7 years, we have seen PLENTY of Super Bowl contenders that had both holes in their teams, and even lackluster records until they ramped it up in the last month of the season. Getting freaked out after one month just feels like it lacks vision.

Agree with CANHawk - Pete would look pretty dumb if he built a defense that managed only a year or two of dominance. There are plenty of models around the league for recycling defenses cost-effectively; they'll figure it out. And the running game will hopefully have some longevity with Turbin around. So we have time.

I love how people can say in one breath that they want to be like the Patriots or the Ravens or the Steelers, only to advocate firing everyone and starting over in the next. Rebuilds like that take time and perhaps more importantly a little consistency.

Everyone keeps stressing about how our window is *NOW*. Get outta here. Our window is not RIGHT NOW, it's right around the corner. Likely even next year. Hell, we might even be in a position to make a late season rush at the end of this year, but we need to let it all come together first. The herbs and spices are in place, just need to let it marinate. Have to give it some time to let the yeast rise. Additional generic cooking metaphor.

We have lots of time. TONS. Marshawn will be 27 next year, that's at least 2 years of prime time left (and we have a very young and apparently very capable Bob Turbin sitting behind him). Earl Thomas, KJ Wright and James Carpenter are just babies at 23; they litterally have entire careers left. Ditto for Dick Sherman, Chancellor, Tate, McCoy and Okung who are all 24. Bobby Wagner and Bobby Turbin are only 22! Shit I have jerseys in my closet older than that! The only guys I'm even kinda worried about are Clemons and Browner, but Irvin appears to be getting it and Browner's style doesn't really depend on having blazing top speed so he might be able to keep it up into his 30's. Other than that... this is a seriously young team.

So seriously, all this "OUR WINDOW IS NOW!! DOMINATE NOW!! SUPERBOWL NOW!!" bull shit just needs to frakkin stop. Get off the ledge, take a xanax and down it with a nice sharaz because you people are bug shit crazy and are going to give yourselves a stroke. Just hurry up and be patient. Like right now! I SAID BE PATIENT DAMMIT!!!

After the Arizona game I made a thread about "we will go 8-8 and miss the playoffs". Man was I trashed by many on this board. The next week I apologized about my statement. Not because I felt my comments were wrong, but that I didn't wait until my intended 4 game evaluation before making that thread.

Well here we are 4 games in and my original thread seems just as relevant today as then. The only difference is I just don't post much now, and I drink wine while I watch and don't really get worked up over the end results. Because any way you wish to look at it, we are still a work in progress. I felt Flynn would have potentially expedited that process, but obviously PC doesn't agree. I personally don't believe the elbow issue one damn bit. But it's not for me to say, so I just will keep watching the games with my wine glass in hand. No one is getting me worked up over this season. Not with this current offense.

Kearly...I know you don't like this sort of stuff, but thank you for a thoughtful, well articulated post. I always enjoy reading your thoughts and the reasoning behind them, even if I don't always necessarily agree. Your contributions are a nice contrast to the plethora of emotionally laden, shrill shouting matches found in abundance elsewhere on .net.

I'm with you thinking we're sitting on a powder keg and can't wait to see how & when it plays out.

"This team is talent overkill. It's a stick of dynamite soaked in kerosene. A quality quarterback is the match."...and..."This team is young and this team has almost everything you'd want outside of a great QB"

Therein lies the rub man. The position is so ABSOLUTELY vital in sports that a good one can carry an otherwise mediocre team to the Super Bowl (see Brady, Tom and last year's Patriots) while a less than stellar QB will drag an otherwise good team into 8-8 land or at the best maybe a Wild Card round win. For example, though lot of people aren't going to like this, think Dave Kreig.....I loved Bone but I still say the Hawks win a couple of Super Bowls in the Knox era with a top flight QB. On the other hand, Hass had his best season in '07 and without it the Hawks don't even smell the playoffs. My rambling point is that no matter the years involved and no matter the plan, unless this regime finds the right QB, we are going to see a lot of 9-7, maybe 10-6 first round exits at the best and 8-8, 7-9 seasons at worst (the defense is too good to be any crappier than that). There's a reason Shanahan sold half his future for RGIII, cuz he felt the franchise guy is 3/4 of the battle, or 60% anyway. Is Wilson the truly great QB this franchise has NEVER had? Time will of course tell. I will say you have no idea how badly I want that to be the case because until this franchise finds him, I'm not sure there will be a Super Bowl "W".

Last edited by hawksfansinceday1 on Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

well if pete carroll goes 7-9 for a third straight year then what improvements has he really made? we basically have a whole new team that is still mediocore. the whole league is getting better so yes are team is better than 2 years ago but so is the rest of the league. we need to take a bigger leap to get to the top. we need that elite quarterback plain and simple.