Bob Jones on rape

The offender, a knife-wielding cowardly piece of garbage called Troy Clement, was found guilty on the robbery charge but acquitted by the jury for indecent assault.

Clement now resides at our expense in prison for three years where hopefully some awful fate will befall him. And the hullabaloo? Well, at sentencing three months after the jury’s verdicts, Justice John Priestley expressed his surprise at the indecent assault acquittals, “given the clear evidence”.

He then speculated that “perhaps the jury felt the foolishness of the girls venturing out alone at night into a park in a strange city, dressed as they were, plus the absence of DNA evidence, led to a reasonable doubt on their part”.

Why would any sensible woman person, especially visiting a foreign country, think it sensible to walk through a poorly lit park at night?

By far the silliest criticism of Justice Priestley came from barrister and feminist television series presenter Catriona MacLennan, whose comments devalued her credibility on other fronts, notably her excellent work for animal welfare.

Writing in the Herald, she asked why shouldn’t women be able to walk safely through an unlit park at night? Grow up, girl. The answer is because you might be raped, or, alternatively, assaulted, robbed or murdered. It’s nothing to do with being women, the same danger faces men who in fact, rape excepted, are by far the greatest victims of unprovoked assaults.

Stupidity is the real problem here. But then I’m preaching to the choir…

Rape is as old as humankind and marches, etc, will not stop it. In Saudi Arabia rapists are beheaded, in Singapore they’re hanged, in China shot and in Texas, electrocuted, but rapes still occur. Furthermore it happens with most species, whether sparrows or gorillas. But although the offenders are male, 99.999 per cent of men are not rapists and feel just as outraged as women do about it.

Those young German girls were very silly. They come from a country with a unique characteristic, unmatched elsewhere, of an abiding civility, but nevertheless, hardly rape-free with about 8000 reported cases annually.

Once again, as I’ve written before, it raises the spectre of a foreign journalist investigating the appallingly high incidence of rapes and murders committed against female tourists to this country, unmatched on a per capita basis by any other Western nation.

At the very least we should issue pamphlets to incoming tourists about the need for caution.

Life is full of risks, which is why we buy insurance, wear safety belts, lock our doors, don’t holiday in Somalia or, as plainly needs to be said, walk alone through dark parks at night.

Bloody hell I’ve been having the same arguments from women on twitter. At the end of the day NO ONE should be walking in the dark alone, when I do it I’m keenly aware that I’m taking my life into my own hands and that at any point I could be required to defend myself.

FredFrog

Yup, agreed. But there’s still no excuse for rape.

Josh Metcalfe

Definitely, we don’t want to give that impression. But I prefer to stack the odds in my favour as much as I can.

Harroputza

If you’re walking through a dimly-lit park after dark, you’re asking for trouble. For guys, that manifests itself as beatings or muggings; for girls, sexual harassment or rape.

When I leave my house, I lock the door. Someone might come and steal my stuff, and it is wise to take precautions to mitigate this.

Yes, it would be wonderful if we lived in a universe where such things did not happen, where everyone treated each other wonderfully, and women and men alike were free to walk around without a care in the world. But the world is not like that, and you need to act accordingly until such time as it is.

Don’t walk through dimly-lit areas by yourself, don’t get so drunk that you’re not in control of yourself and don’t put yourself unnecessarily in harm’s way.

Have you talked to Gareth about this? He’ll have a theory on it. He has a theory on every other bloody thing!

Col

I think he aren’t that fast, never been able to lay a Pussy so I have been told?

nudgy

99.999% of men are NOT rapists. That will get the smelly man hating hippies like Delahunty going feral.

Eh?

Although as Thomas at StatsChat points out, this would mean that there are only about 20 male rapists in NZ. He speculates that Bob is probably only out by 3 or 4 magnitudes.http://www.statschat.org.nz

cows4me

Such a shame there is no curriculum for common sense, it’s probably the hardest to teach but the most valuable skill.

Patrick

Not sure why it is still referred to as common sense when patently it is now uncommon for people to have common sense.

IWantToBeLikeMallardOneDay

School teachers “teach” it out of people.

Lion_ess

Isn’t that the truth.

Michael

The young women were foolish, but that’s not an excuse for the man who attacked her. The fact that it was dark, and they were dressed for a night on the town is not consent to being attacked.

Or the next time you pull out your credit card to pay for something, and the card gets skimmed – is that your fault too? It wouldn’t have happened if you paid cash.

Agent BallSack

I always check the amount before I put my pin in, dairies are shocking for keying in an extra couple of dollars. And I count my change when I receive it instantaneously. As soon as the total is rung up I know exactly how much I should get back.

Col

So we can use you as Finance Minister, u ok with that?
I m not going to give you any nick names am I Agent TightSack.

Patrick

He couldn’t do any worse than that twat of a history teacher that blew the best economic times of a generation, and bought a clapped out train set from the dingoes, and blew billions on welfare for votes and then took a knighthood from the evil colonial masters…My money is on ABS to be better than that twat Cullen. My Granny could be & she has been in the dirt for years.

Muffin

I agree, stupid move on their part, however that doesnt mean they deserved it or the rapist deserved to miss out on the conviction for it.

James

The problem with much of the left (and right for that matter) is that when you step into someone’s shoes to try and find an explanation for something you are immediately shouted down as making an excuse for that behaviour. You aren’t; you are trying to figure out the reason behind it, which means that you are now more equipped to prevent it in the future.

In this case there are two lessons:
Firstly the girls were foolish and walked through a dark park, at night, and didn’t take care. Is this an excuse for the rapist to rape them? Of course not. But it is a lesson that some people obviously still need to be taught (and maybe we should look at ways to educate our visitors in places such as backpackers).
Secondly the jury MAY have acquitted the girls due to the way that they were dressed at the time. Does questioning whether this is a possibility excuse justice not being served? Again, no. But it does mean that perhaps we need to ensure that judges direct juries better in rape cases?

Patrick

I really doubt the jury failed to convict based on how the victims were dressed – the lack of DNA evidence mentioned above sticks out like dogs balls to me. BTW I suggest the above is incorrect – “Secondly the jury MAY have acquitted the girls”

Pretty sure know what you meant though

Random66

I suppose the question is; ‘did those girls deserve what happened to them?’ The jury obviously thought so. While these girls were indeed foolish, I question whether they should be held totally responsible for the violent actions of another. In the jury’s eyes the man was clearly not to blame. That poor man obviously couldn’t control himself in the face of such temptation, so we woman must take all practical steps to help him with his lack of self control. Oh I see now, this is why the Burka was invented. This jury sent the wrong message to society. They are saying that it is not a man’s fault if he violently assaults a women because of what she is wearing or where she is walking. Regardless of what these women were doing, they did not break the law. He did, and he got away with it.

Jonathan Pull

So its the victims fault for getting raped.great mind set WOBH.
Yeah it’s not a perfect world and there are dangers but it’s a pathetic and slippery slope to even suggest it’s the victims fault because they should have known better.

Andrei

That’s not what is being said – what is being said is that in an imperfect world there are things you can do to protect yourself from being the victim of a crime.

It’s like wearing a seat belt in a car, you don’t walk thru a dark park late at night

In Vino Veritas

Jonathan, I don’t think thats the tenor of the post or the responses. I think everyone would agree that the women did not deserve to be raped, and are aghast that the guy got off indecent assault. What they are saying is that the women put themselves in a far riskier position than they needed to. The world isn’t a perfect nirvana. They needed to be a bit more careful, and that is not saying they deserved it.

Jonathan Pull

That I can agree with.

Cadwallader

How can you possibly draw that inference form either this post or its resultant comments? Please explain!

Jonathan Pull

Why would any sensible woman person, especially visiting a foreign country, think it sensible to walk through a poorly lit park at night?

That comment alone read to me (purely my interpretation) that if you walk out at those times of night its your own fault if you get raped because you should have known better. The comment completely removed the rapist from the equation and only mentioned failings of the victim.

Patrick

That is why Jones’ suggestion about warning pamphlets at Auckland Airport arrivals is a sensible one. It will not happen though as politics will dictate. Couldn’t have the tourists being scared away – rape is not the only issue, been plenty of cases of tourists getting bashed & robbed in NZ.

Jonathan Pull

Definitely, only mentioned rape because it was the topic at hand.

LesleyNZ

If we adopted the same laws and consequences to unlawful actions as Singapore we would all be able to walk, without fear, through our parks and streets at night. No way would I walk in any dimly lit place at night – and am wary even in brightly lit places.

Col

I m a male and can protect myself very well, but I do the same as you LesleyNZ, common sense really, street wise?

FredFrog

We all know it’s just common sense not to walk around alone in the dark, whether male or female, whether skimpily dressed or not.

However, we all also all know that there is *NO* excuse for rape. Not ever.

Rex Widerstrom

It’s nothing to do with being women, the same danger faces men who in fact, rape excepted, are by far the greatest victims of unprovoked assaults.

True perhaps of the circumstances of this particular case. But I have a close male friend who was not only brutally assaulted but raped. At the risk of setting off a further round on incendiary comment, I will nonetheless point out that this occurred in an Arab country where (according to my friend, who’s lived and worked in such places) it is viewed more as simply another tool of subjugation by the perpetrators.

And yes, I am aware power and subjugation is a factor in all rape, but the point he makes is that while most Western thugs wouldn’t contemplate raping a male victim because it goes against their own macho self-image, it seems Arab thugs have less qualms and view it as just another tool to use against a victim of either sex.

And of course male rape figures in any jurisdiction are widely under-reported because shame, guilt (totally undeserved, of course) and a lack of understanding amongst police and the wider public mitigates against coming forward, so it’s impossible to accurately quantify.

Patrick

Rex, try Hastings UK. Chokka block full of Kosovan immigrants who seem to take great delight in accosting males & raping them.

James

Calling bullshit on the tired old claim that “rape is always about power,not sex” would go along way to smartening up young fluffy headed victims to be…

snakebit

Rape is very common in nz and oz….much less so in the US. Would love to know why. Is it reported less or is more to do with mace and small pistols?

Rex Widerstrom

“Much” less? Rate per 100,000 in NZ: 30.9. Rate per 100,000 in the US: 28.6 (2008 figures, from this source (Excel spreadsheet)).

Now let’s take two broadly Western countries where not everyone has a gun on their hip. In Canada the rate is 1.5. In Sweden it’s 53.2.

Whatever the deterrents to rape might be, the potential presence or absence of a weapon on the victim would not seem to be statistically significant.

James Growley

Maybe the rate will come down in Sweden now that Assange is out of circulation.

Patrick

Wow – instead of sending Labour pollies to the UK to swan about at Conservative Party piss ups perhaps someone could volunteer to spend some time in Canada & find out what the big difference is – maybe it is so cold your todger would snap off if exposed for any period of time? Or maybe there are other reasons. would be interesting to know.

Rex Widerstrom

I agree. Though please, let’s not send a politician from any party. When it comes to crime and its causes, few people are quite so wilfully stupid.

The rates of most kinds of police-reported crime have been dropping steadily since about 1991, long before the government of Prime Minister Stephen Harper began introducing its “tough-on-crime” polices, such as increased mandatory minimum sentences and restrictions on credit for time served.

The overall crime rate has dropped 26 per cent since 2002, and violent crime is down 17 per cent in that period…

“The one thing that’s clear is this is a long-term trend and has nothing to do with any of the so-called crime policies of the government,” [Anthony] Doob, [a professor of criminology at the University of Toronto] said.

Yet only today Anne Tolley has attributed a fall in crime solely to the NZ Police. What, no impact from prison officers? Or maybe parole officers? Or maybe Customs officers increasing interceptions of the precursors to “P”? Or more effective addiction mitigation programs from community groups?

The point is, I don’t know. But nor does she. Tolley’s statement is like saying “I put eggs and cocoa and flour and milk and butter in a bowl and put it in the oven and this cake is the best ever. Must have been the cocoa”.

You’re right, what we need is proper research, by people with the intelligence and experience to do it.

I should be able to leave the front door of my house unlocked & go away for the weekend but I cannot, friggin hell Bob is only stating the obvious but of course the mad feminazis will portray him as a male chauvinistic apologist for rapists before you know it.