that is BS. a lobbyist is nothing more than a representative of an interest. everyone has interests. + everyone has a representative and that is supposed to be the primary access. if you don't like yours, elect another.

most recently, we have had the organizations of the tea party and the occupy movement.

people have as much access as they chose to use, and they have the responsibility to elect those who meet their needs.

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called the government. They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

This sums up Obamas plan. Seems people who have to make choices are being responsible and spending less on toys. If only the same could be said of our government:http://xfinity.comcast.net/articles/news-general/20121127/US.Fiscal.Cliff/Two snips to sum it up:His trip comes a day after Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner met privately with congressional leaders and presented a proposal calling for $1.6 trillion in higher taxes over 10 years and immediate spending to help the unemployed and struggling homeowners.

One new feature in the Geithner plan is a call for increasing the nation's debt limit without the need for congressional approval. Under last year's debt ceiling deal, Obama simply had to notify Congress that he was raising the debt ceiling, a move that could be blocked only if both houses of Congress approved resolutions of disapproval that Obama could veto. The administration is seeking a similar arrangement going forward.

That gets to the point of we want to spend more of your money on what we choose ,and we will spend what we want,even if Republicans stand in the way.I did not vote for these gestapo tactics. This is the start of a crisis beyond the realms ever seen here and a rapid loss of freedoms. This is your spirit of cooperation and transparency.

Less money for toys, seems to be the norm now. I have been building non essential large toys for years, three canceled orders, theme parks. Reason stated, their traffic is down considerably. Since I can only do 2 a year that puts the brakes on..Been old enough to quit for some time, had not thought of that as an option, looks like that decision was made for me. More bee time..dl

seems to be true of people i know who can afford the toys still. they are not spending as much because they are waiting for the other shoe to drop. we all know it's coming, it's just a matter of what, exactly, and when.

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called the government. They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

at least the MSM is not missing this. oh no. no one is going to pay more. it's all FREE :piano:

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called the government. They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

Even folks who will qualify for so called free health care (and likely those that are now) already know its not free kathyp, so "Please" stop the mindlessly redundant rhetoric. We all know how despised the less fortunate are by you and how you love to blame them :roll: for all the troubles of the world.

As usual the 'fortunate class' seeks to keep taxation as complicated as possible w/ these kinds of 'surtaxes' presnted above, instead of just making and keeping things simple by treating 'all' income as income and taxing it the same. It gets people all worked up and make no mistake people, "that" is the intention, don't you know?

Although I am dead set against taxing labor, which is like taxing our very existence. Instead I advocate taxing ONLY UNEARNED income, like it was just a few generations ago.

A complicated tax system always benefits the well off at the expense of the majority, this is nothing new. Why Americans of all stripes and beliefs aren't demanding a 'simplified' taxation of its citizens is a question deserving of some serious discussion and equally serious answers.

I'll wait............................... :?

The true reasons behind our complex tax system is something the MSM will always ignore. Don't you all wonder why?

Personally I've have been an agitator for such changes in our tax system for over 30 years and would welcome more citizenry participation, but our petty divisions will keep that from ever happening. That's nothing new either :(

But NONE DARE CALL IT CONSPIRACY :roll:

***Those w/ a diagnosis of "Clinical Cynical Syndrome" (manifests with replies to any idea proposed by a thoughtful adult w/ "Yeah Right" and technically known as adolescence) and/or "Obsessive Complainer Disorder" (manifest w/ statements of fatigue, boredom and the transparent desire to DO, EAT, or BE something else, yet remain unwilling to do anything about it other than complain. (Also see "whines," "whiners," "whining" and children") need not reply to this post :-D

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"Trust those who seek the truth, doubt those who say they've found it."

Even folks who will qualify for so called free health care (and likely those that are now) already know its not free kathyp, so "Please" stop the mindlessly redundant rhetoric.

no. even here, people applaud the free stuff coming our way. as long as people are excited about free stuff, i am going to keep pointing out to them that it's not free.

you are free to not read what i post.

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called the government. They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

I personally don't know 'anyone' (poor or not) expecting any free stuff other than those who already control the majority of wealth in this Country.

In fact most of the folks I know back a plan for "all" citizens to get some skin in the game until we remove ourselves from the mess WE made. After all, we've all benefited to some degree by living in America. Don't think so? I've got an extensive list of places to visit to gather a 'larger' perspective. Ask me.

I promise you, the wealthy 'expect' a great deal and tell us all the time through their media (the MSM we love to hate), they are so entitled.

Any talks of 'entitlements' must begin with and include the "entitled", and no its not the poor.

Any talks of reducing Cost Of Living increases to SS recipients (going on right now) must include talks of reducing the salaries and benefits of our elected, based on lousy performance to start.

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"Trust those who seek the truth, doubt those who say they've found it."

I see it first hand come ride down south and drive through the inner city neighborhoods. Nobody is at work everyone is just wondering around. But you better believe they are by the mailboxes come the 1st and 15th

its easy to sit in the suburbs and talk about areas we know nothing of. But when you actually see it with your own eyes it makes it all a little more real

Are you assuming that I'm blind or ignorant of what is happening in our poorest cities and our rural communities because you don't agree with my personal assessment? That you 'assume' I don't visit these communities with some regularity? Really?

Just because I don't carry the same world view doesn't equate with your assumptions about those you chose to generalize.

Come down off your throne Man. (no need to "beg" to differ, but the generalizations and assumtions can go)

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"Trust those who seek the truth, doubt those who say they've found it."

I think if we went through the SSI roles and examined them on a case by case basis we could save a lot of money coming out of SS revenues.In my small town alone it amazes me how many people get this for no real apparent disability. These same people qualify for a lot of programs and are comfortable at the level of living they get with this. They would rather do with a little less than look for a salary or hourly job. And what really amazes me is how many have extended family going the same thing. It is not begging to differ,these are people I know,know their history and background. And I have seen them performing tasks on a regular basis to show they are not really incapacitated in any way.Stress from working seems to be the biggest handicap.

As a former Investigator of such things I can assure you, the real thieving that is going on is coming from places other than those living in poverty, who are being condemned these days for being poor. Being blamed for being 'entitled' to live a crappy life w/ little hope for anything different.

You'd very likely be surprised by the 'actual' dollar amount of welfare fraud committed by the poor when compared to the blatant theft from those who control us and them.

We (humans) did the same in NAZI Germany, blaming the less fortunate for the troubles caused by the wealthy.

It is no different today. Why would it be? Baaaa-baaaa, baaaa.

I urge all to check out these 'opinions' for yourselves. SEE; investigate what's going on in RIO right now as they prepare for the upcoming World Cup and Olympics.

I think it closely approximates our own future UNLESS we collectively get our heads out of the sand and come together for the fight of our lives and our children's.

However; First we must stop fighting w/ each other and recognise the enemy for what and who it is.

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"Trust those who seek the truth, doubt those who say they've found it."

As a former Investigator of such things I can assure you, the real thieving that is going on is coming from places other than those living in poverty, who are being condemned these days for being poor. Being blamed for being 'entitled' to live a crappy life w/ little hope for anything different.

you are so full of it. the only condemnation is for those who choose to stay where they are. there is no excuse in this country for an able bodied and mentally competent person, to suck off the system all their life...let alone an excuse for generational welfare.

there is nothing wrong with being poor. lots of us have been there. some of us will be there again. it is unforgivable to wallow in it and cry about how bad you have it, when you are not willing to do anything to improve your circumstances. this isn't India, or China, where you might be stuck in your cast and not able to advance.

you are not owed anything. you do not deserve, just because you exist. shocking, i know............

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called the government. They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....