Starting to smoke a lot during idle only. The engine tows and runs cleanly above idle. Changed oil brands and quickly went back to Rotella. It still emits blue smoke at idle only.

Just towed from Pittsburgh to Palm Beach, Fl. Grossed 18 thousand lbs. with NO oil consumption. Truck has lots of power and gets great fuel mileage. Added various types of magic ju ju to the fuel hoping it would clean the injectors. There may be a slight improvement, but 2K miles of adding additives and it is still throwing out lots of blue smoke at idle.

Truck is out of warranty with over 120K miles on it. My dealer is in Pennsylvania but I live at my winter house in Florida. I'm on my own, what do I fix?

'01 GMC D/A 4x4 ext. sb

Kennedy

02-06-2003, 08:27 PM

I guess I'd first see about getting it hooked to a Tech 2 to see if there are any irregularities in the injector balance.

Captain Mal

02-06-2003, 10:43 PM

John,

Thanks for the idea on checking injector balance.
Super busy the next three days with fishing charters then Monday I must head to PA and pick up a unit going to New Orleans. I will continue with the fuel additives. If the problem persists and I make it back, the Tech 2 at some dealer will get plugged in.

Now, I'll have to find a local Tampa dealer that will cooperate in a resposible manner. It sure would be nice to have good 'after-market' repair for these engines.

'01 GMC D/A ext.sb 4x4

pinehill

02-07-2003, 01:20 PM

Captain Mal,

Try Dimmitt Chevrolet in Clearwater.

Captain Mal

02-07-2003, 09:03 PM

Pinehill,

Wrote that down. If I'm still smoking with the additional 3,000 miles that will be on by next Friday, I'll go there. It's got to have more personal service than huge Ferman in Brandon.

I live in Ruskin but often cross the 'bridge'.

Thanks,

'01 GMC 2500 D/A 4x4 ext. sb

Maverick

02-09-2003, 03:51 PM

Mine smoked at idle last fall at the 98,000 mile mark and turned out to be #1 injector bad and stuck open and was dumping fuel into the cylinder. Glow plug was soaked when pulled. Check to see if fuel in oil. I wouldn't notice anything at all when up to speed though. Is there a big puff of smoke while in park if you hit the go go pedal? Mine did. Injector was fixed under warrenty and no other problems so far. 117,000 miles.

OMBS

02-12-2004, 02:42 PM

ME AND MY BUISNESS PARTNER BOTH HAVE TRUCKS WITH IDENTICAL CHIPS,EXHAUST SYSTEMS AND AIR INTAKE KITS.HIS TRUCK HAS APPROX.25,000 MILES ON THE ODOMETER AND JUST STARTED SMOKING BLACK AND HAS A ROUGH IDLE AT TIMES,MOSTLY COOL ENGINE, BUT SEEMS TO BE GETTING WORSE.BOTH TRUCKS ARE SERVICED AT 10,000 MILES ON THE FUEL FILTER.WE RUN BOTH ON THE 110 HP SETTING FOR DAILY DRIVING AND MINE HAS NOT DEVELOPED THE PROBLEM,BUT HIS ACTS UP ON OR OFF THE CHIP AND ALWAYS CLEARS UP ON ACCELERATION AND NEVER AFTER THE ENGINE GETS WARM.NO CODES HAVE BEEN SET,BOTH TRUCKS ARE WELL MAINTAINED.COULD THIS BE A SIGN OF INJECTOR PROBLEMS?

More Power

02-13-2004, 10:10 AM

1- Is air getting into the fuel supply lines & system? Can you pump air out of the fuel filter on a daily basis?

2- Unless you've just changed it, change the fuel filter.

3- Are both trucks running the same fuel?

4- Are there any codes being set?

5- If this is reproducible for the dealer, have them perform a cylinder balance test and check the fuel rail pressure.

6- Is there excessive vacuum in the fuel tank after sitting overnight?

MP

Lone Eagle

02-13-2004, 05:28 PM

I would eliminate the chip as the source of the problem first. Later! Frank

OMBS

02-17-2004, 08:32 AM

THANKS FOR YOUR RESPONSE.IT ENDED UP BEING THE BULLY DOG DOMINATOR.WENT BACK TO THE SPEED SHOP AND GOT AN EXCHANGE UNIT PLUGGED IT IN ,TRUCK RAN GREAT.CALLED BULLY DOG AND TALKED TO RUSSELL AND MIKE THEY TOOK CARE OF EVERYTHING.I HAVE READ ABOUT OTHER CHIPS AND PROBLEMS ON THIS PAGE BUT VERY FEW TIMES DO WE HEAR ABOUT THIS KIND OF CUSTOMER SERVICE.THANKS AGAIN FOR YOUR RESPONSE.

Brayden

05-10-2004, 02:56 PM

I got my 2500HD CC SB 4x4 at the beginning of february. It has almost 10k miles on it, and as of late it has developed a rough idle, and wants to lunge against the brakes in traffic. It also smokes noticeably white. It does it when cold and hot, but only at idle.

It also feels like it's down on power below 1800 rpm's or so. Seems as if the VGT isn't mapped correctly with the fueling. Will EGR and a cat make black diesel smoke turn white? I ordered Kennedy's exhaust for an '03 to get rid of the cat, and I also ordered a pyrometer and boost gauge to help me better diagnose the problem.

Any help is appreciated. Especially techs who may know about possible software updates, etc.

Would it be advantagous to have a oil sample?

Thanks,

Brayden Fleece

Kennedy

05-10-2004, 03:20 PM

Just FYI, you will likely want to fix this before doing the exhaust. The missing cat will likely be the first thing to get blamed.

Thought it said on the order 2004 LB7 Federal emissions! ;)

Dealer can play with Tech 2 and alter EGR and turbo functions to see if it affects the smoke...

Brayden

05-11-2004, 03:37 PM

Does anybody else have this problem?

Is there any way to defeat the EGR? Electronically or mechanicaly?

Thanks

Brayden

05-12-2004, 05:50 PM

Nobody is experiencing this with their LLY?

Kennedy

05-13-2004, 07:04 AM

At the moment, there is no defeat for the EGR that I am aware of.

Without getting into details, this is not a simple matter of unplugging it or blocking the passage.

White Truck

05-15-2004, 12:50 PM

Brayden,
I have seen the symptoms you described caused by a partially restricted injector. The balance rate on the affected injector was +15. It also had a P0401 (Insufficient EGR flow) All were corrected after replacing the injector.

DKB

Brayden

05-22-2004, 12:15 PM

Yeah I took it in to the dealer and we spent about a half day trying to reproduce it, and when I went to leave it started doing it.. Got it on digicam, and then pulled back into the bay and put it on the tech II. Number 4 injector was lagging behind almost 10 ms. So we're going to replace it here soon.

May turn out to be an injector, but at this point, I'd see if it reoccurs. Could also be EGR related. I've seen this before, but like you said it cleared itself up.

A quick trip to the dealer wouldn't hurt. With any luck, they'll hook up Tech 2 while you wait...

Joe Duffiney

07-17-2004, 06:47 AM

Three times now I have had blue smoke at idle. All three times not completely up to operating temp maybe 160 or so short trip through campground or 1 mile to atm machine. 2 out of 3 bad surge in rpm. As soon as I accelerate all is normal for a few weeks. All stock except for cat fuel filter pre/oem.

More Power

07-19-2004, 09:31 AM

It may not be an issue - or one that will be self correcting with time or different fuel. My '01 would do this occasionally when new (but not now with 38,000 miles), and will do it after a cold start on very cold mornings.

However, a fuel injector balance and compression test would provide info useful to eliminate those possibilities if this continues or gets worse.

MP

Joe Duffiney

07-19-2004, 03:09 PM

Thanks for the reply MP. I think I will just wait and see if it gets worse. It runs like new now.

bd1028

08-15-2005, 03:32 PM

I have 02 duramax 184000 miles started blowing white smoke at idle seems to be getting worse each day thought you guys might know where to point the servce guy. Truck is going in the garage thursday.any help would be greatly appreciated.

thanks Brian

markrinker

08-16-2005, 03:48 AM

White smoke usually means coolant burning in a combustion chamber. Maybe a blown head gasket.

Any coolant loss or signs of coolant in the oil?

Jody

08-16-2005, 05:30 AM

i had same trouble on my 02 it turned out to be faulty injector cup. bet money thats what it is!

Kennedy

08-16-2005, 07:53 AM

Color can be a subjective thing with white being confused with light blue etc. Chances are, you have a bad injector. If it was coolant, you'd be missing some in a hurry. I'd give it a thorough once over, and remove any aftermarket stuff that could cause concern. Be sure that you check: no red fuel, gas smell, water in fuel, and that you have good quality fuel and good service records (15k minimum fuel filter change) and then take it in to the dealer. It's not a bad idea to change the fuel filter before you go in.

Jim Brzozowski

08-16-2005, 08:14 AM

My guess is coolant in the exhaust for whatever reason. Take all of JK's advise before going to the dealer. They should have an analyzer that can check for exhaust gas in the coolant, if so you've cracked a head, blown a head gasket, lost a gasket seal that is allowing coolant into the exhaust, thus white smoke, if it is in fact white smoke. If it looks like steam exiting the pipe, the best hope is head gasket material has deterioated due to countless heating cycles and if that turns out to be the case, I'd replace both. Good Luck.

bd1028

08-16-2005, 01:47 PM

coolant levels seem to be okay temps all running normal a little more black smoke than usual when accelerating.also seems to be intermitent. sometimes you have to be sitting sill or in park 3 or 4 miniutes sometimes it does not smoke at all

thanks Brian

bd1028

08-23-2005, 03:45 PM

update:I dropped truck off monday for service they called monday evening half of the injectors were replaced said they would finish the rest on tuesday.they called tuesday afternoon truck was complete and all injectors were replaced they installed new gm fuel filter.truck runs great .
Thanks for all the help and info guys

Brian

NAGA

10-24-2005, 03:56 PM

06 LLY/ALI 6SPEED. I noticed a small amount of smoke at idle. it doesent bother me and it runs like a beast. our 04 LB7 ALI doesnot smoke like that its just a question i love the truck drives so much better than the 04. it just kills me to have to abuse it pulling the loads of debris all day.

Jim Brzozowski

10-25-2005, 08:22 AM

Hey what are trucks for? To Work? I suspect you haven't had a chance to put enough continuous highway miles at upper rpm range to seat the rings yet. All that ideling and loading debries and going slow isn't going to work the engine enough to break it in. It really takes a while longer to break in a diesel, course if its smoking really bad, better ger it checked out.

NAGA

10-25-2005, 01:56 PM

thanks for the quick reply it has been mostly short runs. the truck does run lower rpms even under simular conditons than the 04.the04 always
seems it has to work alot harder to get the loads moving and keep them moving. i guess thats the lb7 vs lly. the 06 has 1300 miles now and counting so ill see if it stops if it dosent ill leave it till it runs bad.but i cant see that .

mark45678

10-25-2005, 04:09 PM

idle time isnt good for a new motor , run it hard to seat rings is what I have always done and never had a problem.

carco

02-01-2006, 05:28 PM

Been getting whiteish/blue smoke on warm idle while in gear. If idle speed picked up a little or trans shifted to neutral smoke goes away. Getting more frequent. Mastertech scanner showed P1226, P1238, P1241 codes today or #'s 2,6,7 injectors. Warmer the engine reached, higher the fuel command went for #7 up to 1.2ms vs .8ms for other injectors @ idle. Balance rate for #7 reached +14.1 vs others from -4.0 to +2.4 as engine op temp reached. 25000 miles, has Cat filter installed pre OEM since 5000 miles. Runs good otherwise, mileage may be off slightly, could be operation. Called dealer and set date for this Monday 2-6. bob......

carco

02-01-2006, 05:28 PM

Been getting whiteish/blue smoke on warm idle while in gear. If idle speed picked up a little or trans shifted to neutral smoke goes away. Getting more frequent. Mastertech scanner showed P1226, P1238, P1241 codes today or #'s 2,6,7 injectors. Warmer the engine reached, higher the fuel command went for #7 up to 1.2ms vs .8ms for other injectors @ idle. Balance rate for #7 reached +14.1 vs others from -4.0 to +2.4 as engine op temp reached. 25000 miles, has Cat filter installed pre OEM since 5000 miles. Runs good otherwise, mileage may be off slightly, could be operation. Called dealer and set date for this Monday 2-6. bob......

Kennedy

02-02-2006, 05:55 AM

Could be something as simple as the injector connectors. While your DTC's don't match, I'd have the dealer look at Document # 1701744. I'd also look at fuel quality/additive. A good dose of FPPF Total Power can do wonders. Brandon's LB7 had an "episode" at the track during WOTE and seems to have made a full recovery after a good dose of Total Power. To keep things smooth with GM just tell them you use Stanadyne if they ask.

Kennedy

02-02-2006, 05:55 AM

Could be something as simple as the injector connectors. While your DTC's don't match, I'd have the dealer look at Document # 1701744. I'd also look at fuel quality/additive. A good dose of FPPF Total Power can do wonders. Brandon's LB7 had an "episode" at the track during WOTE and seems to have made a full recovery after a good dose of Total Power. To keep things smooth with GM just tell them you use Stanadyne if they ask.

carco

02-11-2006, 05:03 PM

Truck seems to be fixed! Dealer found codes p041, p0404, egr codes, p2149, p0207, p2146 injection codes. Bulletins found for both sets of codes. EGR codes DOC#1633373, 2004-05 6.6L calibration flash change of PCM. These codes can be induced by, "any exhaust, air intake, or wireing modifications made to the vehicle". I installed a cat back system, dealer had no problem with exh.
The injector codes were fixed by a wireing harness change. I*** #2 and #7 harness connectors are not supported well and may induce terminal breakage due to engine vibration, DOC#1701744. New 90 degree inj harness connectors are installed to the inj harness and supports added to hold the harness securely.
Dealer test drove about 15 miles and I have 130 miles so far so good!
I removed the Edge Attitude and BS, about 15 minutes, before going to dealer. Now engine rattles less on cruise and hills than before w/ box and BS, maybe the EGR flash or lack of the Edge box?? Seems to be getting better mileage, but 130 miles is not enough for accurate reading. The EGR was unplugged to prevent turbo bark, so next is to replug BS and Edge w/A and chk for bark and mileage. Thanks to JK for connector suggestion. Thanks to all. bob.............

threeman

02-11-2006, 06:16 PM

Just had my connectors replaced too. #2 and #7 connectors or so I was told. I havent driven it alot since. That was Friday.

carco

02-27-2006, 08:44 PM

Plugged everything back in BS and Edge w/Att, all works ok. No turbo bark w/BS after ECM reflashed w/ new EGR program. bob...............

BMDMAX

02-27-2006, 08:49 PM

Good to hear the fix was software rather than the injector hardware. FPPF does work wonders on the injectors though and I highly recommend it. :cool:

Mark Rinker

09-22-2006, 09:35 PM

My 2001 just started smoking alot at idle. Enough that you see it drifting past the window. Clears up with any acceleration, doesn't start right away until is warmed up good. After idling for a few minutes, the resulting plume when you first take off is enough to choke a horse. Something is wrong...

Not 'making any oil' on the dipstick that I can see, but oil looks blacker quicker than usual after a recent oil change.

Made an appointment to have it checked out. Hope they make good on the 200K injector warranty. I want a fresh set of 8!

DmaxMaverick

09-22-2006, 10:39 PM

Injector(s). You should get 8.

Mark Rinker

09-23-2006, 06:54 AM

Perfect timing...150,000 miles on the odometer. Is there any other 'regular maintenance' work that I should pay to have done while they have the patient open for surgery? Should I have a compression test done?

DmaxMaverick

09-23-2006, 11:22 AM

Belt, idlers, tensioner, steel coolant lines (corrosion likely), water pump....the list could go on. Check all the glow plugs, though. Your "federal emmissions" truck can lose several before the PCM catches on. A "CA emmissions" truck will code with just one out.

I do not suggest a compression test. It was running fine before. Even if you find a low cylinder(s), what are you going to do about it? Odds are, a complete overhaul isn't practical, and it ran good before, so a compression test would be a waste of time and money, and one more thing to worry about. Any other engine, and I would recommend head gaskets. The Duramax heads/gaskets are very different. Either they are fine, or need replaced. If good, I wouldn't stir that hornet's nest. Besides, you will probably create more problems than prevent. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

Mark Rinker

09-23-2006, 02:01 PM

Great ideas. Glow plugs hadn't occurred to me since the DMax's all start so well compared to the issues encountered with the 6.5s.

I'll have them check all your suggestions...the only drawback is I have found that dealerships usually find PLENTY of other things to repair/replace when in the midst of warranty work...

DmaxMaverick

09-23-2006, 07:00 PM

Glow plugs....Just replaced another one this morning. That's 2 in 110K. First one was at 86K. Easy enough, but both were the front plugs, left and right (cyl's 1 and 2). Wonder if there's a reason for the front plugs to go first.

Robyn

09-23-2006, 07:13 PM

One of my Customers has a Dmax that he uses to pull a large car hauler with.
He has had nothing but issues with the squirts in the thing.
It runs fine for about 50K then starts putting out the foul smoky thing as you describe.
Seems these critters have an injector issue that has not been addressed.
I have no personal experience with a Max so I dont know about any other issues

DmaxMaverick

09-23-2006, 07:38 PM

One of my Customers has a Dmax that he uses to pull a large car hauler with.
He has had nothing but issues with the squirts in the thing.
It runs fine for about 50K then starts putting out the foul smoky thing as you describe.
Seems these critters have an injector issue that has not been addressed.
I have no personal experience with a Max so I dont know about any other issues

The issue has been adressed by GM. We'll see if it's enough. GM extended the warranty for the injectors to 7 years or 200K on 2001, 2002, and some 2003 models. From reports (including my own), seems it has drastically improved the situation, but unknown if it's gone for good.

If your friend is having issues every 50K, there's something wrong with something. Either his dealer isn't taking care of business, or he has serious fuel quality or filtering issues. The extended warranty specifically states all 8 injectors will be replaced, with an updated version. If his dealer has been just replacing "problem" injectors, the dealer isn't abiding the bulletin, and I would expect to see problems further down the road.

Robyn

09-25-2006, 07:17 AM

My freind has a 4500 custom tow rig and he contracts to do trailer hauling from Portland to LA.
Up over the siskious and then over the grape vine. He is hauling some big loads and I think he is working the snot out of the thing.
As far as I know its stock all the way. Every time it has had issues the dealer has installed all new injectors.
He is out to the end of the warranty thing and GM is giving him a hastle. The last set of squirts just took a poop and he is not amused.
The new max's dont have the issue so they must have made a big change in the design on the things.
I will keep in touch with him and see what transpires with it.

Robyn

Kennedy

09-25-2006, 07:33 AM

We just tore down a 400k Dmax that has had several individual injectors replaced off and on over the years. It fially gave up when a chunk fell out of an exhaust valve. Closer inspection shows severe erosion of the piston crown in the bowl and outer edges. Glow plug tip looks like porous charred plastic.

Injector issues aren't necessairly too widespread, but those who have issues seem to repeet and many just keep beating their head on the same wall.

Improved filtration and Additization...

DmaxMaverick

09-25-2006, 08:33 AM

We just tore down a 400k Dmax that has had several individual injectors replaced off and on over the years. It fially gave up when a chunk fell out of an exhaust valve. Closer inspection shows severe erosion of the piston crown in the bowl and outer edges. Glow plug tip looks like porous charred plastic.

Injector issues aren't necessairly too widespread, but those who have issues seem to repeet and many just keep beating their head on the same wall.

Improved filtration and Additization...

Thanks John. Was this a stock, or mod'd 400K'er? If mod'd, how?

Mark Rinker

09-25-2006, 09:35 AM

Dropped off the truck this morning. As the service writer was prepping the truck, I realized that my 40hp tune was still in place...while 'cleaning my stuff' out of the truck, I quickly restored the stock tune and don't think anyone picked up on it. :)

The service manager (my ex-wifes longterm live-in boyfriend, LOOONG story here...) showed me the VIN history and it had two random injectors replaced at the 44K and 48K milemarkers, before I owned the truck. He said that "all 8 should have been replaced at that time".

JK, I have a transfer tank with filter in the bed of the truck, the kind you see farmers used for in-field fueling. It has a filter on the pump, but I think its like 15micron (big chunks)...the tank is NOT new, but has lots of fuel going through it.

Do you think that this could have caused the injector issue? I have not been plugging any underhood filters - but I guess that might be the point, huh?

Mark Rinker

09-25-2006, 12:19 PM

UPDATE / GOOD NEWS: The truck had two bad injectors, they are replacing all 8 under warranty.

BAD NEWS: They said I need 8 new 'injector tubes' that will run $1,000 for the parts - NOT covered under warranty.

WTF?

Kennedy

09-25-2006, 12:38 PM

Thanks John. Was this a stock, or mod'd 400K'er? If mod'd, how?

Never had a box on it I am told. 7 sets of injectors though...

Kennedy

09-25-2006, 12:39 PM

UPDATE / GOOD NEWS: The truck had two bad injectors, they are replacing all 8 under warranty.

BAD NEWS: They said I need 8 new 'injector tubes' that will run $1,000 for the parts - NOT covered under warranty.

WTF?

$1000 is insane. The tubes can generally be cleaned and reused, but in reality if this is part of the injector job then GM should be paying for it.

7 SETS OF INJECTORS! That averages out to every 57,000 miles or so. No extra filtration HUH.

JK, was the errosion at the edge of the piston dish or the edge at the rings?
Guess I'm wondering if thats from inadequate filtration of the fuel?

Mark Rinker

09-27-2006, 02:32 PM

Got the Ebay injector lines - they were mint, obviously never had any run time on them. $70 including overnight shipping Fed Ex.

When I took them to the dealer, the tech explained that the reason two injectors had failed was due to water getting into the top of the injector where the injection line meets the flare nut. He showed me the corrosion on the threads of the connector, and the contamination that ultimately made its way into the injector itself.

My only reaction - "...if the design of the fuel line and flare nut causes the corrosion that takes out the injector, why would the customer be asked to replace the lines that failed in the FIRST place?" (No answer from the tech...)

He said that GMs policy upon warranty replacement is to use sealant at the line to flare nut connection on each new injector to prevent moisture from making its way into the threads.

Arrrgghh...at least they are footing the bill for the injectors and the labor. No small task replacing injectors on these engines. I have also asked for all 8 glow plugs to be replaced as well as both thermostats, and to test the block heater element...winter looms on the horizon...:)

Mark Rinker

09-28-2006, 06:39 PM

Picking up the truck tomorrow morning. Here's the results of the 150K mile 2001 LB7's trip to the dealership:

Its tough to get out of any dealership with your a**, but hey I got 8 new injectors under warranty. :)

Mark Rinker

10-07-2006, 08:27 AM

Update -

Pulled a 32' Sea Ray from Milwaukee to Atlanta last week with this truck. Ran it bone stock, no tow tune, no propane.

Absolutely zero smoke at idle, downshifts, etc. All temps normal, oil pressure good. Same power, same shiftpoints, same engine 'rattle'. LIKE A ROCK.

A Wisconsin DOT inspector had his way with me - ended up with a fist full of warnings and out of service for 10 hours. "Gee officer, I need to carry a log book?" :) :)

DmaxMaverick

10-07-2006, 08:43 AM

Update - ......A Wisconsin DOT inspector had his way with me - ended up with a fist full of warnings and out of service for 10 hours. "Gee officer, I need to carry a log book?" :) :)

You didn't make some reference to the source of his income, or heritage, now did you??

Tell a cop, or gov. paid inspector, where his pay comes from, and he'll make sure you get your money's worth!

Mark Rinker

10-07-2006, 06:05 PM

He was actually a very reasonable guy. He could have really cost me alot of money if he had written tickets for:

1) No log book.
2) No VIN plate on the trailer (custom built; never got one years ago)
3) No proof of SSR (at home in other folder)
4) No proof of truck registration (at home in other folder)
5) No flags or wide load signs on an 11' boat.

I did have all the correct safety equipment, working breakaway brakes, good tires, lights, etc., so he let me off easy with a 10 hour 'time-out' and the Flying J where I bought

Next I suppose I'll have to start stopping at weigh stations...rules rules rules.

:)

Robyn

10-07-2006, 06:26 PM

Yup Yup
All the above.
Heavy haul trucker here.
Log book
Heavy haul permits for every county I travel in.
Proof of Insurance
Cab card
Medical card (every two years a new one on me $$$)
Bill or weight ticket on the load
Fire extinguisher (that works)
Pull into every scale thats open.
Dont forget the chain drive wallet and the double clutching boots C'mon
40+ channel CB is a must to keep ahead of smokey bear.
Oh and dont forget the $3 a gallon diesel well slightly less now. $2.65 today
Welcome to trucking.

Kennedy

10-07-2006, 08:40 PM

Medical card (every two years a new one on me $$$)

Mark's next "necessity"

Federal Regs as I understand...

Mark Rinker

10-09-2006, 09:35 AM

I had the medical card, keep it current with flight physical required by FAA.

Tough Guy

10-11-2006, 08:20 PM

Glad to hear your back on the road again, sounds like the dealer didn't get to fleece you as much as they would have liked....Its good to know GM stands behind the 6.6 injector problem better than the PMD issue with the 6.5's...

Chris

Londell

01-02-2007, 09:03 PM

I'm a newbie here but I think I have a problem. I have a 2006 LLY Duramax and I used the high idle function for the first time about a week ago (mid 20's). I noticed after the high idle kicked on, the truck was pumping out white smoke...a lot of it too. It only did it until it kicked off, about 3-4 minutes. Since then I only notice it when its really cold (20's-30's)and only does it for about a couple of minutes. It does it even when the high idle is off. If its smoking and I take off driving it dissapears after about 500 feet. Never does it when its warmer temps. That is the only time I've seen it happen. Other than that it drives smooth and fine. No check engine light on or anything. Is this normal? Can anyone help me out here, I'd appreciate it.

BlackMaxx212

01-03-2007, 12:05 PM

In your case I believe what you are seeing is normal. In colder temps, you will get white smoke until the motor warms up. You might notice a little extra engine clatter while it warms up too. I had a serious smoke issue with my 03 LB7 recently. It required new injectors (under warranty) to rectify it. I was seeing the white smoke at idle and running - warm or not....

Mark Rinker

01-03-2007, 06:00 PM

Sounds like unburned fuel from low cylinder temperatures.

Londell

01-04-2007, 10:20 AM

Thanks, well that sounds like thats probably what it was. Cause now it doesnt do it since it hasnt been real cold lately.

SoTxPollock

01-05-2007, 12:30 PM

Could be that until you go to high idle the exhaust heat is not enough to cause white vapor, which is really the cold pipe condensing the water molecules in the air that have been heated. At high idle or under some acceleration there is enough heat to facilitate the process. Kinda like seeing your breath on a cold day when you exhale, ya know. Once the pipe itself gets heated up there is no way to cool the gas inside the pipe quick enough for it to continue, thats why it doesn't last very long once you start accelerating. I've actually observed water running out of the pipes on some cars that have dual exhaust because there is so much pipe surface area to transfer the heat to the cold pipe when they first start up or are ideling for a long time in a traffic jam. Not to worry, its normal.

DmaxMaverick

01-05-2007, 01:00 PM

Could be that until you go to high idle the exhaust heat is not enough to cause white vapor, which is really the cold pipe condensing the water molecules in the air that have been heated. At high idle or under some acceleration there is enough heat to facilitate the process. Kinda like seeing your breath on a cold day when you exhale, ya know. Once the pipe itself gets heated up there is no way to cool the gas inside the pipe quick enough for it to continue, thats why it doesn't last very long once you start accelerating. I've actually observed water running out of the pipes on some cars that have dual exhaust because there is so much pipe surface area to transfer the heat to the cold pipe when they first start up or are ideling for a long time in a traffic jam. Not to worry, its normal.
I don't think this is the case. The water vapor theory works on gassers with catylitc convertors. The cat converts some exaust gasses into water, which is what makes them "steam" when hot, and is the reason for a lot of water running out of the tailpipe when they are cold. The O2 sensor on gassers keeps the O2 level in the exhaust high enough to make the conversion.

While water vapor is present with all internal combustion engines, a "lot" of smoke or vapor should not be seen on a Diesel, even with a cat (2002 CA Duramax should have one). My guess would be fuel in this situation. If there is a "lot", there is likely an injector or fuel quality issue working. If it's injector(s), it will only get worse. Temperature plays a part due to the PCM adjusting the combustion event according to engine and ambient temps. If it happens only when the engine is cold, I'd suspect a sensor is failing or failed, but not out of spec for the PCM requirements. If it were due to water vapor, they'd all do it, all the time when cold. Could also be a "late" EGR closing, but that should toss out a DTC.

Another possibility is coolant. If it were, you'd notice coolant loss, and very likely smell it.

beeler

04-03-2007, 05:24 PM

I have a '02 with 112k miles that has started putting out white smoke at idle. It smells like a old Cummins 855 with that unburned fuel smell. Also smokes more than it used to when getting on it. That is grayish color. There are no other signs of injector problems. No sign of fuel in the oil, starts good, milage hasn't changed much. I run the old Edge juice almost always on level 2. Is it time for injectors? If so will I be able to get them under the extended warranty or will I have to wait for more symtoms?

DmaxMaverick

04-03-2007, 05:32 PM

Sounds like injectors, but you need to confirm it isn't caused by the Juice. Remove the Juice, if it continues, and you can repeat it for the dealer, they should take care of it.

beeler

04-04-2007, 08:14 AM

I had thought about removing the Juice, just haven't done it yet. The comment on the dealer is what makes it tougher. I wouldn't have my neighbors kids trike worked on at my local dealer. I'll have to go out of town to get the work done. Is there any way a independent can diagnose the injectors? Is the smoke enough for a dealer to replace them?

Thanks for the help.

beeler

05-17-2007, 06:01 PM

My 02 has been smoking at idle for a couple months now. Got it to a dealer today and they found the balance rates quite a bit out on 3 injectors and marginal on 2 more. Since it is just balance rates and not leaking they are not covered under the extended injector warranty. I'm at about 115,000 miles. I was quoted over $3200 to replce all 8. Not impressed.

Zacc

05-17-2007, 07:05 PM

I say they are feeding you a load of residue. Tell them to pack it up their collective .....!

DmaxMaverick

05-17-2007, 07:51 PM

Either get that dealer to do their job, or find another dealer. Leakage isn't the only symptom covered by the warranty. Some leak, some don't. If you have 3 (or even one) injectors out of balance spec, the warranty applies. Period.

Special Policy Adjustment
This special policy covers the condition described above for a period of 7 years or 200,000 miles (320,000 km), whichever occurs first, from the date the vehicle was originally placed in service, regardless of ownership. The repairs will be made at no charge to the customer.

Important: This special policy only covers the above noted failure modes, which are identified by high fuel return flow.

For 2001-2002 vehicles covered by Vehicle Service Contracts, all eligible claims with repair orders on or after May 25, 2004, are covered by this special policy and must be submitted using the labor operation codes provided with this bulletin. Claims with repair orders prior to May 25, 2004 must be submitted to the Service Contract provider.

For 2003 vehicles covered by Vehicle Service Contracts, all eligible claims with repair orders on or after October 10, 2006 are covered by this special policy and must be submitted using the labor operation codes provided with this bulletin. Claims with repair orders prior to October 10, 2006 must be submitted to the Service Contract provider.

Vehicles Involved
Involved are all 2001-03 model year Chevrolet Silverado, GMC Sierra; 2003 Chevrolet Kodiak and GMC TopKick vehicles equipped with a 6.6L Duramax Diesel (RPO LB7 - VIN Code 1) engine and built within the following start of production to end of production VIN breakpoints:

Year
Division
Model
From
Through

2001
Chevrolet
Silverado
1E100028
1E346644

1F100001
1F213872

1Z100015
1Z100019

2001
GMC
Sierra
1E100021
1E346642

1F100010
1F213864

2002
Chevrolet
Silverado
2E100009
2E306435

2F100004
2F247804

2002
GMC
Sierra
2E100003
2E306345

2F100011
2F247974

2003
Chevrolet
Silverado
3E100002
3E381007

3F100003
3F259043

2003
Chevrolet
Kodiak
3F500015
3F522532

2003
GMC
Sierra
3E100003
3E381124

3F100008
3F259040

2003
GMC
TopKick
3F500001
3F900945

If you lived in the Portland/ Vancouver area and owned a GMC, I would say bring the vehicle my way. I love replacing LB7 injectors!!! :D

This is what they are reading. Mine have no signs of high return rates. The tech could command the pressure up with the tech II. He claimed that GM was really cracking down on the warranty and that he would have to send snapshots of the problem to back up the replacement decision.

Thanks for the info guys but if I'm reading the bullitin right the dealer is correct. Wish I was closer to Portland too. It would be fun to meet a tech that knew his stuff and cared about the customer too.

Back later. I gotta go decide which will be in my garage, a Ford or a Dodge.

Duramaster

05-18-2007, 11:45 PM

Hey Beeler, did you tell them that the engine is "LOW ON POWER" and/ or "HARD START" especially when the engine is hot? I sure hate to see you end up with a "ford" or "dodge" in your garage. :eek:

beeler

05-19-2007, 10:07 AM

Hey Beeler, did you tell them that the engine is "LOW ON POWER" and/ or "HARD START" especially when the engine is hot? I sure hate to see you end up with a "ford" or "dodge" in your garage. :eek:

LOL I told them that the power and milage was down. It's not hard to start and I figured the tech might notice if I said it was and it started right up for him. I'm taking it to another dealer next week. Get a second opinion.

I'm not really wanting to get a new rig right now. I'd rather do it when the camping season is over. A new ford in the garage may not be bad for a change. It's been over 10 years since I had one for my daily driver. Don't know if I could do the dodge thing though.

Dakster

05-20-2007, 12:59 PM

Beeler,

I don't really knock any of the big three. I've owned them all at one point - although only a gasser dodge. They all have their share of issues, bad and good dealers, warranty denial horror stories, etc...

Look at your choices carefully, Chevy/GMC is the only one right now to have modified an existing proven product for the new EPA regs. Ford (albiet thankfully) has a new un-proven motor and so does dodge. From what I've read here it seems there are numerous good changes between your 2002 and the 2007's. I can't comment on the difference because I never owned a 2002... So if you're just looking for an excuse to get a new one. :cool:

No one else here has to drive your current or new truck - so you are the one that has to be happy with it and whatever payments your new one will bring. However, I still think GM is the most reliable of the three at this point.

Duramaster

05-20-2007, 08:14 PM

That was very well put DAKSTER! :)

beeler

05-21-2007, 09:21 AM

You are pretty much on the money Dakster. The only thing you got part wrong is the "looking for an excuse to get a new one". About the only time I look at a new anything is if the old one has pi$$ed me off. If a rig runs good for me I actually don't want the hassles of a new one.

I'm thinking about going to a gasser. The only time I need the diesel is the couple thousand miles a year with the 5er in tow and a little slower up the hills wouldn't be the end of the world.

One thing that has been pointed out locally is that ULSD is not easy to get in this area. I wouldn't want problems with a new diesel of any breed because of fuel. I'm just not willing to pick up the tab on that. Maybe Duramaster has some insight into that issue.

crafty

05-22-2007, 01:11 PM

Took mine to the dealer last week to get the balance rates checked. I am getting the same uneven idle I had the last two times I had an injector go. The number 6 injector was reading a plus 6 so I am booked in in a few days to get more tests done and likely have it replaced. I've never had the hard start or smoke conditions and I've never had fuel leaks.
The last injector was done last summer and it was covered under the extended policy. My only beef is that they insist on doing them one at a time instead of doing all eight at once. It would sure save everyone a whole lot of time and effort if they would do the rest.
the service manager may be trying to do the rest this time because he asked to have the truck for two days. I can only hope.;) ;) ;)

More Power

05-22-2007, 02:11 PM

Fort Benton isn't all that far from Missoula. The local GMC dealer has an excellent diesel tech. I know the guys at the local Chevy dealer as well. :)

Jim

beeler

05-22-2007, 03:10 PM

Thanks MP. You're right it isn't that far. I'm taking it to another dealer tomorow. They have a good rep as I have talked to people all over the area that say it's the only dealer they will take their GM stuff to. My most local dealer used to have a good service dept. Now I wouldn't take a kids trike to them.

If I have to pay $3000 to get the issue resolved the rig will probably go down the road. It's getting to the point that it needs other work so I'd wind up with 5k more in a rig thats only worth 17-18k on trade. Might be time to upgrade even though I don't want to now.

Duramaster

05-22-2007, 10:23 PM

UUUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH H...................................... hey CRAFTY, 04039a (special policy) states to replace "ALL EIGHT" injectors. For that matter, if the vehicle is still under the "ORIGINAL" equipment warranty then bulletin #04-06-04-007G states to replace all eight injectors also. Your dealer is doing something weird. You might want to ask some questions. :confused:

Duramaster

05-22-2007, 10:27 PM

As far as ULSD goes, Our fuel supplier to our dealership says that the only fuel available here in the Pacific Northwest is ULSD. Some of the pumps still have the 500 PPM stickers on them, but the fuel is actually ULSD. He said that if he encounters any pumps with the old stickers, he is supposed to replace the sticker with the new ULSD sticker. :)

beeler

05-23-2007, 07:31 AM

I talked to the local fuel supplier that I use. He said the fuel at the main pump is ULSD. His other tank where the big rigs fuel is 500 ppm. The refinery in GF is not producing ULSD yet so it can be either way here untill the end of the year.

beeler

05-23-2007, 03:45 PM

Took the rig to another dealer (closer than Missoula) today. They said it needed injectors but that they were under warranty. They are getting them ordered. My cost will be a fuel filter and coolant.

Duramaster

05-23-2007, 09:06 PM

There you go BEELER. It just took a little patience and determination. MAN I can't believe all the HORROR stories I read about on this site!! I just don't understand why you guys are having such a hard time getting your DMAX's worked on. And for that matter, A lot of "YOU" posters are having trouble finding good TECHNICIANS st that!!! :eek:

Dakster

05-24-2007, 05:43 PM

Congrats and getting the truck fixed, finally...

Gaving gone from a diesel truck to a gas SUV, I would be hesitant to go gas instead of diesel. Regardless of the towing power loss that you may rarely need. The gassers just don't the MPG of a diesel and that cost recovery time is getting shorter now that GAS (& diesel) is setting record high prices. (Granted you have to make up $7k) 15k miles a year, 50% better mileage (based on my expereince yours may vary). .20 gal cheaper (subject to change). It would take between 4-5 years to recoup based on the below assumptions:

Assuming, $2.99 for diesel and 15 mpg that would = $3k year in fuel vs. $3.19 a gal for gas assuming 10 mpg that would be $4785 for gas. So round up and assume $1800 a year savings. These are/were my mileage numbers and current prices I pay. GAS is regular unleaded.

The most important part, even if it was more to run and cost more to buy: I can't believe how much happier I am driving my diesel truck over driving the gas suburban....

Now, doing the math on my wife's 2004 gas volvo vs. 2006 VW TDI the difference is off the charts. She will save over $200/month. 50%+ better mileage and her volvo needed SUPER, which is a full $.50 a gallon more...

Burl

05-24-2007, 07:51 PM

Dakster

Don't forget resale value in your rant;)

MikeC

05-24-2007, 09:07 PM

My 16 Y.O. is the only one driving a gasser.

He loves his Grand Am and I couldn't find a Diesel, yet!:D

Mike

crafty

05-31-2007, 09:56 AM

Duramaster,

Could you by any chance fax me a copy or give me a link to the bullitens you refer to in your post? (04039a and bulletin #04-06-04-007G )

The special polocy one is the one I'd like to read the most. I would guess that the other is the same as what I read when they extended the warranty on the injectors.