Herero vs. Germany (Namibia), early 1900s: A case of collateral damage or a systematically planned genocide

As with most cases related to European occupation and colonisation, the mainstream media and historical sources have painted an extremely gruesome picture of this event. But is that really the case? Or is it a cunning concoction of history like the Holocaust™, the myth of the noble Native American savage or the Vietnam situation (to a certain extent)?

I’m not suggesting that the truth is either completely black or completely white (figuratively speaking ), but somewhere in between. Let us objectively analyse the different shades of “grey” in this thread. As the OP, I’d set the ball rolling.This is the pdf version of the South African scholar, Dr. Claus Nordburch’s conference in Sacramento, 2004 - http://www.nordbruch.org/artikel/sacramento.pdf

Dr. Nordburch had spoken about the credibility of the accusations of genocide in this case and Namibian demands for reparations. A continued discussion seems to centre on if the German officer in command, General von Trotha really gave an order of extermination, which might have been blown out of proportion. Secondly, whether lessons and ideals from the German military academies of always trying to effectuate a decisive Cannae-style "Vernichtungsschlact" (battle of annihilation), might have made the German style of colonial warfare a tad bloodier than what was already the very bloody norm.

After reading quite a bit on the issue and analysing both sides (mainstream as well as revisionist), my humble submission is as under:

It comes across as an occurrence of collateral damage in the case of quelling down a rebellion. Besides, an understanding of the British term of “small wars” applied to this context would reveal that making a distinction between combatants and civilians is not always possible. So, IMHO, mainstream historians have been way too acidic with their attacks on the Germans in this case. Their view is way too one-dimensional for my liking. The war occurrence and the incidents that transpired in its wake were sensationalised as the “first genocide of the 20th century” by youknowwho!

Please share your opinion and answer these questions:

Whether what happened can be technically classified as genocide?

If the answer to the above question is yes, was there sufficient military justification?

I am open to persuasion by liberals and MSM subscribers, if the reasons are strong enough. Ladies, gentlemen and bots, the floor is yours!

i cant belive why some1 wud try to deny it.. the namibia genocide is proved and Germany even gave an aplogy for it.

"We Germans accept our historic and moral responsibility and the guilt incurred by Germans at that time," Germany's development aid minister, Heidemarie Wieczorek-Zeul, said at a ceremony marking the 100th anniversary of the Hereros' 1904-1907 uprising against their German rulers. "The atrocities committed at that time would have been termed genocide." see this link - BBC NEWS | Africa | Germany admits Namibia genocide

i looked up the "scholar" Claus Nordburch's website whose article you gave. he is a nazi racist and wants to save germany from giving reparation. thats npt going to happen. REPARATION IS DUE to the Herero people and the racist state of Germany has to pay up. white imperialists have RAPED africa enough. a whole tribe was almost wiped out and you claim that it was not a genocide??? ARE YOU SERIOUS?

usurper, i have also come across some of your posts here. you are an Indian brhamin nazi who thinks he is god and that blacks and dalits are below you. even your religion teaches that. Bulldust! our black unity is stronger than ever and we your racist "upper caste" indians are going to get ur due from the dalits and tribals. you've even been opressing tribal africans in india.YouTube - African tribe lost in India

no wonder you are on this site with white nazis. you people are as racist as tjhese crakkkers and opressing blacks is in your gene. GANDHI was racist against blacks as well. Burn in hell, racists! ALL OF YOU.

i cant belive why some1 wud try to deny it.. the namibia genocide is proved and Germany even gave an aplogy for it.

Issuing an "aplogy" doesn't mean a damn thing in the current context. They've sold out Germany and other European nations to traitor-politicians some time ago and these traitors apologised to Namibia. Historically, there are no compelling enough reasons to accept responsibility for the "genocide". No German or Namibian scholar has proven so conclusively. If so, you are hereby requested to bring forth the evidence on the table.

Quote:

Originally Posted by proud african warrior

i looked up the "scholar" Claus Nordburch's website whose article you gave. he is a nazi racist and wants to save germany from giving reparation. thats npt going to happen.

Whether he is a Nazi or a racist does nothing to affect his observations. The man has a Ph.D. degree in history. Why don't you evaluate his statements objectively and give your criticisms? That would be more mature than just name-calling people you don't like.

Quote:

Originally Posted by proud african warrior

REPARATION IS DUE to the Herero people and the racist state of Germany has to pay up. white imperialists have RAPED africa enough. a whole tribe was almost wiped out and you claim that it was not a genocide??? ARE YOU SERIOUS?

I am quite serious. Every instance of mass deaths =/= genocide. It is a specific term used to represent a certain case and this quite simply does not cover it. And to see who is "raping" Africa, you need to look no further than your folks in ANC and other powerful tribal politicians.

Quote:

Originally Posted by proud african warrior

usurper, i have also come across some of your posts here. you are an Indian brhamin nazi who thinks he is god and that blacks and dalits are below you.

For starters, this issue is irrelevant to this thread. Since you brought it up, nowhere have I said anything remotely close to people being "below" me. I talk about racial differences on a genetic basis and you are welcome to prove my points SCIENTIFICALLY wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by proud african warrior

even your religion teaches that. Bulldust!

I am an agnostic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by proud african warrior

GANDHI was racist against blacks as well.

That is true indeed. Perhaps, one of the very few things I admire about him is that he was aware of the significant racial differences among people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by proud african warrior

BLACK POWER, baby.

Fair enough. But remember that Negroes =/= Australoids =/= Capoids. So, the next time you talk about "Black" power, be very sure which racial group you are talking about!

no wonder you are on this site with white nazis. you people are as racist as tjhese crakkkers and opressing blacks is in your gene. GANDHI was racist against blacks as well. Burn in hell, racists! ALL OF YOU.

BLACK POWER, baby.

Pot calling the kettle BLACK Idiot! We are the racists? Yet you yell, black power? Wow your dumb even for a negroid.

As with most cases related to European occupation and colonisation, the mainstream media and historical sources have painted an extremely gruesome picture of this event. But is that really the case? Or is it a cunning concoction of history like the Holocaust™, the myth of the noble Native American savage or the Vietnam situation (to a certain extent)?

I’m not suggesting that the truth is either completely black or completely white (figuratively speaking ), but somewhere in between. Let us objectively analyse the different shades of “grey” in this thread. As the OP, I’d set the ball rolling.This is the pdf version of the South African scholar, Dr. Claus Nordburch’s conference in Sacramento, 2004 - http://www.nordbruch.org/artikel/sacramento.pdf

Dr. Nordburch had spoken about the credibility of the accusations of genocide in this case and Namibian demands for reparations. A continued discussion seems to centre on if the German officer in command, General von Trotha really gave an order of extermination, which might have been blown out of proportion. Secondly, whether lessons and ideals from the German military academies of always trying to effectuate a decisive Cannae-style "Vernichtungsschlact" (battle of annihilation), might have made the German style of colonial warfare a tad bloodier than what was already the very bloody norm.

After reading quite a bit on the issue and analysing both sides (mainstream as well as revisionist), my humble submission is as under:

It comes across as an occurrence of collateral damage in the case of quelling down a rebellion. Besides, an understanding of the British term of “small wars” applied to this context would reveal that making a distinction between combatants and civilians is not always possible. So, IMHO, mainstream historians have been way too acidic with their attacks on the Germans in this case. Their view is way too one-dimensional for my liking. The war occurrence and the incidents that transpired in its wake were sensationalised as the “first genocide of the 20th century” by youknowwho!

Please share your opinion and answer these questions:

Whether what happened can be technically classified as genocide?

If the answer to the above question is yes, was there sufficient military justification?

I am open to persuasion by liberals and MSM subscribers, if the reasons are strong enough. Ladies, gentlemen and bots, the floor is yours!

Was that the best you could come up with? I was kinda expecting a step-by-step refutation of my points from an intelligent Negro rather than a personal volley. Come on Jamaican, show us what you've got between the ears :-)

Was that the best you could come up with? I was kinda expecting a step-by-step refutation of my points from an intelligent Negro rather than a personal volley. Come on Jamaican, show us what you've got between the ears :-)

I'd like to ask you, "proud african warrior", how can I possibly have a gene for oppressing africans?

My people never colonized africa, nor took slaves from africa. Infact, there were not black people in Scandinavia until late 19-hundreds.

We might have adventure in our Scandinavian genes, but we do not have a desire to be slavers.

Really? You do realise and that can be done with every single race group, right?

I can just post a couple of pictures from ancient egypt or the modern Iranian army, or post pictures from South Africa, and compare it to Yoguslavia (spelling) and Belarus and Ukraine..... It works both ways.

BTW, everything you posted there, the artillery (Song dynasty), the planes (the Wright brothers, clearly not rascists, unless you belive their personal biography was written by jews? ITS A CONSPIRACY!), the castles (First used by ancient middle eastern and persian empires), were invented by genuine intelligent human beings, not extremists. Can't take credit for what you or people who participate in your ideology haven't done.