Friday, 22 June 2018

ALLEGED SUICIDE ATTEMPT BY DEACON JONES?

A COMMENT MAKER ON THIS BLOG HAS CLAIMED THAT KERRY DEACON, SEAN JONES, HAD ATTEMPTED SUICIDE AND HAD BEEN HOSPITALISED IN TRALEE HOSPITAL.

The comment maker said he heard this from a hospital nurse and that Deacon Jones was overheard in the hospital mentioning my name among others?

The gist of the comment was that I was responsible for this alleged suicide attempt!

A priest is not simply a PRIVATE person. He is also a PUBLIC person.

In rural Ireland, priests are still on pedestals, regarded as above reproach and have quite a lot of control over peoples lives through schools. They are also the "guardians" of the Sacraments - and can privately and publicly allow you a Sacrament or deny you a Sacrament. In other words, they can publicly affirm you or publicly shame you!

The Roman Catholic Church has created the situation whereby sexual morality is seen as ultimate morality.

The sexual sin is the worst sin - and even an act of masturbation can bring you to burn in Hell for all eternity.

The Church has "educated" us into believing that bishops, nuns, and monks are the exemplars of purity and chastity.

We should all aspire to be as pure and as chaste as the clergy!

If the Church, bishops, and clergy want us to buy into their idea of purity and chastity then they have an immense public responsibility to lead by example.

And yet we see bishops and clergy:

- Having sex with women.

- Having sex with men.

- Sexually abusing children, men, and women.

- Being sexually promiscuous in seminaries and parishes.

- Having sex and relationships with each other.

- Being on sites like Grindr.

- Visiting gay saunas.

- Breaking wrists during BDSM.

- Showing their willies online.

So how can this bunch of men, and the bishops who are involved too, think that they have any credibility to talk to us about purity and chastity when they themselves are "at it" like rabbits?

SEAN JONES:

Sean Jones aspires to be a public priest in Kerry - upholding all the teachings of the Roman Catholic denomination.

First of all, he must expect that the rest of us will ask him to practice what he preaches.

And secondly, he has been associated with the "strange goings on" in Maynooth and the good people of Kerry are entitled to know what went on and is their still anything going on in the life of this man who aspires to be the moral guide of Kerry parishioners.

Sean Jones may not like the scrutiny he has been subjected on this blog and elsewhere. But he is a public person and is planning to be an even more public person on July 1st at the hands of Killarney Ray.

The Roman Catholic Church in Ireland is now a very hot kitchen. That heat has been stoked by all the scandals and abuse.

He'd nearly try to be Diocesian Secretary here and Bishop of Meath. Truth be told he's been running Cork and Ross (into the ground) for over a decade now and Johnny Buckley has allowed him hold those reigns.

Most of us are quite excited at the prospect of anybody else taking on the role.

Daly became the Bishop of Down and Connor (Belfast) in late 1982. Bishop Pat had been in St. Peter’s Cathedral Belfast as curate since August 1978.

When Daly took over Belfast he asked all the priests in the Diocese to write a report for him about the state of things in the Diocese. Over a 4 week period Bishop Pat prayed about this and eventually posted Daly a very honest and comprehensive report on the 7th November 1982. In his report Bishop Pat made the following comments and suggestions:

1. That Daly should abandon his luxurious palace in Belfast’s stockbroker belt and come and live at his cathedral among the poor as would Christ.

2. That Daly should renovate the Diocese’s churches in line with Vatican 11

3. That rules about marriages etc be implemented on a Diocesan level so that people would not be encountering difficult priests abusing their power.

4. That the laity should be more involved in every aspect of Church life.

5. That priests should be appointed on merit and not by age seniority.

6. That Daly and the Church should do more to reach out to the alienated youth.

BISHOP PAT PHYSICALLY BEATEN UP BY PRIEST:

About this time the Parish Priest of the Cathedral Father Vincent McKinley was bullying both the priests in the Cathedral Presbytery and the people of the parish. Bishop Pat reported this to Daly.

As a result Father McKinley jumped on Bishop Pat one night in the presbytery dining room and physically beat and kicked him repeatedly !

Bishop Pat reported this to Bishop Daly who replied: “Father McKinley is a saint and you have a persecution complex”. Bishop Pat later regretted not calling in the police.

Bishop Pat was banned from eating in the cathedral priest’s dining room and had to eat in the kitchen with the lady housekeeper. At night when Father McKinley would get drunk he would kick Bishop Pat’s bedroom door and sing pornographic rugby songs about “wanking” and “fucking” !!! He was determined to break Bishop Pat’s spirit.

When Bishop Pat later organised a big clean up of the infamous Divis Flats complex which surrounded the presbytery Father McKinley stood at the presbytery window giving Bishop Pat and the parishioners the 2 finger “fuck off” sign.

Daly and the clergy became furious with Bishop Pat. In February 1983 Daly banished Bishop Pat to the furthest parish in the Diocese – Attical – on the top of the Mountains of Mourne. Fortunately for Bishop Pat the people of Kilkeel embraced Bishop Pat and he them and Bishop Pat has the most wonderful relationship with the people of Kilkeel for the 15 months Daly left him at peace there.

Then Daly struck again. In August of 1984, without warning or cause he once again banished Bishop Pat to the 83% Protestant / Loyalist town of Larne in Co. Antrim. When sending him to Larne Daly said to Bishop Pat: “When you go to Larne I want you to fade into the woodwork. When I look out on the ocean of priests I do not want to see your head above the waves”.

When Bishop Pat was in Larne for just a year Daly sent for him again and said he was going to banish him totally from the Diocese. He offered Bishop Pat a parish in California and £10,000 to go there. Bishop Pat refused. Daly later offered Bishop Pat £1,000 for the key of the Church house in Larne. Pat refused to leave and to this day lives in the house where he now acquired “adverse possession”. Daly denied the offer of £1,000 which Bishop Pat had returned to him. But Bishop Pat had kept a photocopy of the cheque which he made public. In reply Daly said it was a charitable donation.

Pat those who shout the loudest about abuse and protecting the Church from gay Seminarians often have things to hide from their own past. Perhaps you should share the story of you and Fr Joe McGurnaghan - your refusal to do so means you have something very much to hide. Karma

Checked this and found the Catechism is less absolutist that Bp Buckley: 2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. "Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action."138 "The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose." For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of "the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved."139

To form an equitable judgment about the subjects' moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety or other psychological or social factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability

We can be fairly sure the “suicide” story is bogus and mischievous. More than likely it emanated from friends/acquaintances/supporters of Jones.

However, even if it were true, it would only further underscore the total unsuitability of this man for the priesthood. It would be the deranged act of a deeply dysfunctional individual who cannot take mature responsibility for his own life.

Where it true, it would be the desperate act of a man who seeks to emotionally blackmail others into “feeling bad” for him. It would be an attempt to shift the focus away from his own behaviour which has gotten him into trouble in the first place.

Such behaviour, this type of “throwing a wobbler”, is not uncommon - a kind of a tantrum because a particular type of individual isn’t going to get his/her way - “if I can’t have that/do that, etc., I will kill myself and then you’ll all be sorry.

In a word, sheer craziness and to give in to it would be equally crazy. What sort of a priest would someone be who threatened to kill himself if he wasn’t “given” ordination???

However, I think this whole thing is a mischievous hoax. A similar carry on occurred with the Dublin deacon a while back.

The entire saga is a shocking indictment of the current state of the Irish Church. Undoubtedly, there are McGarrick types quaking in their boots for fear that the whistles will be blown by those whom they “enjoyed”.

Pat, I'm sure his ex girlfriends from back in school and college (way before his seminary years and before his vows) would confirm otherwise!! Just admit that he is in fact a straight man who was associated with gay "wrong doings" because he was in the same seminary. So therefore he must be gay too?? I know of one heterosexual relationship he had. I went to the same place to study. I can tell you now that he is not gay. Sorry to burst your bubble. Was told about this site last night. Only sorry I didn't know sooner so I could share this with you. Maybe that's why he has not responded. Does not need to? I'm pretty sure the people who live in Kerry know he is not gay from his past relationships before joining the seminary.

Scrutiny is one thing, this blog goes past that into slander. I'm sure we have all been in places at the same time of "wrong doings" and thankfully not everyone immediately jumps to the conclusion "if you were there too, you must be guilty and involved" that's not how the world works. Can't assume someone was involved. Maybe it's wishful thinking on your part. Move on, leave this man alone. Clearly have nothing on him. Do the right thing, concentrate on the real offenders in the church. This man is good. he will be one of the good ones. Let him show that. Lots of people getting behind this man now. WE WILL NOT ACCEPT THIS ANYMORE PS. WE ARE NOT PRIESTS, FAMILY OR FRIENDS. WE ARE MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC WHO BELIEVE IN SEAN

I don't understand why the focus is always on Gay priests. What about priest who are heterosexual?? They take advantage of their power and situations too. Having affairs with married women. I even saw a priest at a wedding a few years back in toilet cubicle with a female wedding guest. I was shocked to say the least. Was it it that the main focus is on gay priests or priests you assume to be gay. Isn't that discrimination. Can you even out the tone and write about heterosexual priests a bit more. homophobic tone on here at tomes.

+As with so much of deacon Jones's life, the claimed suicide attempt is a pack of lies. It never happened. The same claim was made about Gorgeous. You'll remember that it was claimed that Gorgeous was taken to hospital following a suicide bid near Termini. Pure lies.

If Deacon Jones did indeed attempt suicide recently he is far too vulnerable for an ordination on 1 July. If what is claimed happened, it alone is reason enough to postpone the ordination indefinitely.

The only reason anyone is talking about an allegation of suicide is that Pat chose to publish an unsubstantiated piece of unfounded gossip. If you want to vent at someone, vent at Pat for not bothering to do even a modicum of fact checking

Funny that a member of the similarly-named but unrelated Cartar family should hit on the real reason Magna never got to the altar. I told him he was a grown man and having mostly avoided his nappies I wasn't about to start dressing him then.It's an awful practice and they might just as well advertise for milksops and mummy's boys.My Magna agrees.

I thought that he didn't get past Reader because of his intrinsic disorder, crates of empty wine bottles left outside his room, and cutting remarks in the ref. We were talking about him at the Maynooth Union dinner last week.

You're at it again Patsy, with "Alleged suicide attempt of Sean Jones!" You really must check that your informers information is accurate before you publish or its just more of the gossip you are notorious for. If all the gossip you have printed about this Sean Jones is true and not malicious allegations made by his unnamed enemies then he certainly should not be ordained to The Sacred Priesthood. But we have to know that the allegations are true.

It’s not urgent Pat @ 09.30. You just want to destroy SJ life whether innocent are not. You are not that gullible Pat are you to take the suicide story as fact and then publish it. It took me two minutes to know it was a pack of lies and I posted to that effect. You posted it because you were being mischievous knowing full well it was false - you are a man of the world Pat and you are not that stupid. Someone posted the suicide as a skit and mocked the Bishop going to visit him etc which you manipulated and made it out to be SJ friends doing it. The real culprit is the dick who tried to portray the story as a foolish attempt at wit, you and him/her are to blame for making out it was someone trying to make it a serious post. You disgust me.

10:11, I suspect the person skitting about the alleged “attempted suicide” was responding, with satire, to the sheer buffoonery of this entire saga from start to finish.

Sometimes, 10:11, you just have to laugh and I did at the black humour of picturing Ray Brown at King Puck’s bedside. It may not be your type of humour but your reaction is completely OTT.

Obviously, you are one of the baes. I tell you what really disgusts people is the absolute joke that Maynooth, it’s inhabitants and it’s seminary “formation” have become in the eyes of the country and the world.

Clearly there are reasons for that loss of face and respect and neither Pat Buckley nor anyone else is responsible for that. The Grindr baes and the staff of Gaynooth managed that all by themselves!

So if you are looking for the real villains here, look to Puck, Horny Andy X, Gorgeous Byrne (yourself?) and the whole merry crew!

Pat, for someone like you to attend it would be seen as further harassment. Especially as you are the ring leader. I would be more concerned for your safety. Especially after the comments about this "Mob" waiting to run you out of town.

The story about suicide is allegation as in somebody told someone who told somebody about the hospital incident. As for my good friend from yesterday who disagreed with me calling some people gob*hites. Look at the list at the top of the article. What do you think.

I would hate to have all this in the background if it were my ordination. All I can say is wish S J well. Most people have some sort of past real or alleged in the background. However if things go wrong down the line its another story

Ray is determined to defy Pat, even if it means that Puck is a mortgage on the church in Kerry for the next 50 years. When Puck receives his first parish appointment, parishoners will Google their new young curate. Lol.

Magna, darling, you know full well I wouldn't touch that cheap lager you drink and stick to ladylike drinks. Now stop bothering me, because I've been invited to an ordination and need to decide what to wear! Oh, you could look out my opera glasses - apparently there will be some interesting photos on display and I don't want to miss anything.

So am I. When the presenting priest says "upon enquiry among the People of God and those responsible for his formation I find this man worthy of formation" I am going to shout "objection" and I'll hold up the Bae photo.

You would show a nude picture in church in front of young teens and children? Sick.

If you wanted to do the right thing you would send it privately to Bishop in Killarney. You just want 10 mins of Fame. Oh and I suppose the face will be blocked so no way of knowing it is SJ just like jock strap picture. Ye are all fools.

There is no nude picture otherwise would have surfaced before now.

Guards take him away. Wonder what charges you would face, defamation of character, breach of peace, showing pornographic material in front of a minor?

I am an ex sem because I wasn’t part of the gay cleek. Night after night gay students and clergy at it like rabbits. I spoke up to the Bishop and I was pushed out. I’m actually of gay origin myself but took my vocation seriously, so kept it in my pants. The Scottish sem is no different. I went to Salamanca to visit a friend a few years back and was offered a blowie by a senior sem who is now of a high rank in a Scottish Diocese. In England now and joined the Anglican tradition.

A bj in Salawan*er as it is was affectionately known? Yes I went there for a Deaconate ordination in the late 90’s as a guest and to explore my vocation. I was offered oral sex on the first night too! The offender is now a well know Priest in Glasgow. I wonder if it is the same man and if he is still partial to a play. The Rector was really effeminate but was a lovely and caring guy.

Pat, have you seen the Youtube song: Wake Me Up - Fermanagh 2018. Nearly boked to see who was hogging the limelight in the video. The fact that Fr Darcy is in the lyrics several times could put a jinx on the Fermanagh teams chances in the final tomorrow. I wonder if he charged them or did he waive his usual appearance fee. Anyhow I heard his big end is still causing him problems and The Sunday World are getting repair bills for the Merc right left and centre

Is he still marrying the population of Fermanagh? Must be a lucrative business. I heard he was last seen getting the big end fixed around the Rosslea direction on his way to Clones tomorrow for the match. Most will walk for miles once parked up but Brian will sail through in the Merc all the way nearly to his reserved seat.

I would marry anybody in Fermanagh or elsewhere if I was getting £400-£500 a time. I could then drive a big gleaming Merc too and wave out the window at any heifer or Mare in the field or on the road. That is whether the big end was fixed or broken.

I am a 74 yr old, reared in Co Down, as a cradle catholic, who, while at universities in Scotland and England, began the drift away from catholicism when it no longer appeared to have any relevance to my life. Prior to that I spent almost six years in an Irish seminary, leaving before sub diaconate.I realised, albeit slowly and hesitantly that the combination of celibacy and illogical roman catholicsm's doctrines were not what I wished to subscribe to.I have been a humanist by instinct for many years before realising it to be an entirely logical, rational understanding of the human experience, and one shared by many as the sensible alternative to the sheer illogical irrational mumbo jumbo that is much of formal religion and its doctrines.So, having never met Pat Buckley, spoken to him, or attended any of his services, I am not a 'Buckleyite'. But I am interested in the utterly weird influence of religion in the N. Ireland psyche, and its consequences for its people. I have very little positive feelings for roman catholicism's institutional responses to child abuse, segregated education, clerical celibacy, and other issues I see as being totally inhuman.I am interested in others sincerely held beliefs and experiences, for I still have a lot to learn and try to understand.Above all I'm interested in fair play, and try not to criticise what I disagree with or don't understand. Sometimes I fail, but I'm only human.How about you, one.hammered.langer? Can you explain you position with clarity and devoid of reliance on the mysterious concepts endemic in roman catholicism?

Thank you for your message. I trust you saw my reply earlier in response to the insulting comment being inadvertantly attributed to me at 9.52. It was written by an anon. I am unsure as to why you thought I wrote it but I am happy to note I did'nt write it.

I hold a similar experience with 5 years of seminary formation - but I am some decades younger.

Similarly I respect well discerned positions on religion. I do believe in God, but I do not accept that we can define God into a single organised religion.

I believe that as individuals we need to satisfy our conscience, not a rule book as often presented in Roman Catholicism.

I have never met +Pat either, but I have spoken to him by telephone and found him a most agreeable pastor.

I also have shared views on the church's responses to abuse, education and celibacy. I note that masturbation was promoted in Maynooth by the vocational growth counsellor. Allowing for that occasionally I successfully lived a celibate life; it was naturally difficult but the most difficult bit was the director of formation not believing that I lived it. In fact he believed I was having an affair with a particular theology student; which supplied great cover for a seminarian who was having an affair with her. He was ordained after I left. Interesting and aside from celibacy my bishop openly communicated his surprise that I am straight.

I too believe in fair play. I dislike the insulting and vexatious comments all to often on here.

I am interested in this blog probably because it fulfills a need in me to understand the dysfunction that I lived through in Maynooth. At times it was like chaos and a maddening isolation in the middle of that chaos as I tried to figure out why Maynooth was so different to the teachings of the church. The appearance and actuality were two polar opposites.

One night I contemplated putting onmy cassock and hanging myself with my cyncture in the stair well of St. Mary's House. The next morning I decided to leave. This blog, and openly talking about Maynooth have shown me that I was not mad, it was dysfunctional, I have no need for the fallicies of organised religion and God still lives me.

You said you left, but what if you decided to stay, because you refused to let what was happening around you force you out. What if like SJ you wanted to keep going, in the hope that one day you would be one of the good priests who "keep it in their pants" Then what would happen if you were in the middle of a smear campaign because you decided to stay and was assumed to be the same as everyone else. I've seen men joke around (straight and gay) taking pics and saying out with bae on nights out and posting to snapchat and facebook. It was a hot word at the time with lots of funny memes surrounding it. It was cool to use it and often was used in a joking way. Please let us all get more objective and realise that things can be taken out of context very fast and quite often when it suits people to.

With regards to Sean Jones I have shared no opinion of note, save to say that yesterday's allegation of a suicide attempt would need to be verified by Ray Brown.

I was subject to a smear campaign. It was organised by a seminarian who began rumours that I was having a sexual affair with a theology student. I said to the director of formation that I wanted to be honest; the rumour was out there, it originated with a peer and it was untrue.

His response esculated the situation. He asked every seminarian in three different years as to if I was having an affair. This had three results, 1. He told me there was no evidence to support an allegation I had made that I was having an affair 2. He added fuel to the fire amongst the seminarian who love the gossip. I effectively was treated as if a biblical leper. 3. Having esculated the gossip the director of formation never fully accepted that I was innocent of the rumours that he effectively started. Formation meeting became interrogations on this and he would occasionally be asking third parties if they observed anything, thereby prolonging the charade.

So being in the middle if a smear campaign is not something I need to imagine. I was there and it was my Dean who started it. Without his recommendation I was not really going to be ordained anyway so I was a lost cause the minyre the smear campaign began. Thus was extra sad because I was genuine and sincere in my discernment. I however have the confort of knowing thst while I kept my chastity there he was unable to - hense his now being a married lay chapksin in tge bons Galway.

As for Sean Jones. You mentioned him in your comment to me, so I will mention him back. Any time I met him he seemed a nice bloke. I have no reason to support or condemn the man. Was he involved in all the strange goings on? I cannot confirm or deny. Quite simply I do not know. But I will say this, from my experience if Sean I was surprised to see his name associated with the goings on.

You speak about an odd photo, a snapchat, things being taken out of context. That good sir is a maturity issue. A good priest wont be engaging in such childish antics to begin with. Memes, shapchat, nights out with a 'bae' and a hot word?? It's night prayer and lights out, not light prayer and nights out. Get up early and start every day with an hour in exposition, two if it's your day off. Go to mass. Pray your scriptures daily into homilies that you may share the word of God. Struggle to live a saintly life and tell your parishioners how you struggle doing so in order that they may follow. And end every day with night prayer in the presence of the Eucharist asking that you may do it all a little but better the following day.

Dear Lord spare us from these Ex Seminarians who are now atheist, humanist, bigoted, warped, whatever. Why are they on this blog? Why don’t they exchange numbers, agree to meet somewhere and dance round stone circles or nearer the edge of a cliff would be more appropriate. Save us and Ulster from this Shite.

Pat. Your blog seems to focus on the Irish situation which is fine and interesting, but any plans to blog on Scotland? You will not be surprised to find out that things are even worse here. Catholic Truth Scotland try to expose wrong doing but they aren’t as clever as you and have far less contacts.

Thanks OHL. Your comment @ 18:59 is appreciated. But I did NOT make the comment/query at 17:48 today!Nor have I made the comment at 12:47, or the 'removal at 12:35. Somebody is getting their kicks: sad.Having said that, the comment at 12:48 are what I have submitted to the blog at some point since April when I turned 74, but with the exception of the query to you OHL towards the end.I believe your first comment to the site was on 15th May.I have now mailed +Pat seeking a validation codeword to ID genuine comment from me and await his reply.

Thanks OHL. Yes I see your change of tag.You started to comment as CR late 2016, just about same time as Cecily. Tara Hill Tom also posted at same time, but not since.In fact there's a lot of very interesting posters who haven't been posting comments on the site for some time: Loney Lizzie; Wee Maggie McGoo; Sadie on the Sofa; Lady Lillian of Clonard et al, we miss your incisive comments and accompanying mirthful craic. Have you stopped just because your beloved Dean has abandoned us? MMM

McConnell my uncle Jake was a genuine republican, how dare you use his memory on your FBook page, he'd be abhorred at you posting that and your antics.Republicans dont behave and intimidate others the way you do.Jake was a republican but a sincere and devout Catholic.Your no republican and well you know that!

Pat I just made contact with an old friend in Moyvane. Apparently there will be an Archbishop at the Ordination of Sean Jones also. The former Archbishop of Cashel because there is a family connection. I’m sorry I couldn’t establish what the precise connection is but there is one. Maybe others might know more about this.

23.17 Trying to keep it hush hush are we? We will see. Will Clifford Ordain SJ? That’s what I heard. It Lets Brown off the hook and wash his hands if something goes wrong with SJ later in ministry. If this is the plan they will have succeeded in playing a blinder.

I heard the family connection thing is a smoke screen to get Clifford to do the deed. There is no connection. This is a stitch up and it stinks. I’m surprised this is only coming out now. Someone is loosed tongued tonight with a few sups of the crater but it’s true and some clergy are not happy about it. Kerry Priest

Kerry Priest - you may be right, but I don't think it really matters who "does the deed", i.e. who the ordaining prelate is. Ray Browne is the local ordinary and either he stands over the ordination of this man or he doesn't. Clifford may be a smokescreen, but it will be Browne who will be responsible and who will have to pay the price for any consequences of the ordination.

Pat why do you allow idel gossip about people be published on your blog. If the above named deacon did try and take his life then you and all of us should be praying for him rather than poking fun at him and having a laugh at his expense. What you and others post on here at times makes me wonder what kind of Catholic's/Christian people some of us that read whats on here really are. Tom.

If there is truth to this - then a person has attempted to take their own life. Where is the compassion? Would this conversation have been the same if he was successful in his attempt? Enough is enough.

If there is truth to this - then a person has attempted to take their own life. Where is the compassion? Would this conversation have been the same if he was successful in his attempt? Enough is enough.