Comments on: frape https://arnoldzwicky.org/2013/08/31/frape/
A blog mostly about language
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By: Serene - momfoodproject.com https://arnoldzwicky.org/2013/08/31/frape/#comment-54628
Wed, 04 Sep 2013 14:14:32 +0000http://arnoldzwicky.org/?p=16234#comment-54628Nothing has been deleted that I’m aware of.
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By: Tim https://arnoldzwicky.org/2013/08/31/frape/#comment-54616
Tue, 03 Sep 2013 23:01:33 +0000http://arnoldzwicky.org/?p=16234#comment-54616I don’t really know what to make of all this. Arnold and Steven seem to be responding to something completely beyond what Serene wrote here, which leads me to wonder if there were earlier comments that have been deleted. None of this makes sense to me, least of all what seems like their casual dismissal of “trivializing rape.”
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By: Stephanie https://arnoldzwicky.org/2013/08/31/frape/#comment-54600
Tue, 03 Sep 2013 17:06:34 +0000http://arnoldzwicky.org/?p=16234#comment-54600Ann, as always, nails it. I’m kind of boggled that the connection between the culture trivializing rape and the function of this kind of neologism within the culture — which does not entirely rely on the intent of the speaker — can be so easily glossed over.

My sense is that that is Serene’s point. I am also boggled that she should be shamed for making it.

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By: chryss https://arnoldzwicky.org/2013/08/31/frape/#comment-54596
Tue, 03 Sep 2013 11:35:45 +0000http://arnoldzwicky.org/?p=16234#comment-54596My thoughts here: http://chryss.eu/?p=441
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By: chryss https://arnoldzwicky.org/2013/08/31/frape/#comment-54595
Tue, 03 Sep 2013 05:49:12 +0000http://arnoldzwicky.org/?p=16234#comment-54595Woah, did part of Serene’s text get deleted? Where does she make accusations against your (Steven’s) friends? Is it time to respond to this on my own blog?
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By: Ann Burlingham https://arnoldzwicky.org/2013/08/31/frape/#comment-54593
Tue, 03 Sep 2013 05:01:18 +0000http://arnoldzwicky.org/?p=16234#comment-54593“I am sure that the figurative use of a word as hyperbole doesn’t necessarily mean the literal action is trivialized. On the other hand, it seems pretty callous to me to use it this way in a mixed group where people present may have first or second hand experience with such acts.”

Of course we all understand I don’t mean “gay” “that way”. So it’s fine.

What the hell?

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By: Steven Levine https://arnoldzwicky.org/2013/08/31/frape/#comment-54588
Mon, 02 Sep 2013 22:21:32 +0000http://arnoldzwicky.org/?p=16234#comment-54588Serene: Arnold’s not getting through here, so I doubt I will, but it is my friends against you have made some very serious accusations as to their intentions and even morality, friends who will likely see this article, so I have to take exception to what you have said here. Arnold noted that you can agree that our culture trivializes rape and not see every use of the word as literal — that is, you can see that the word “frape” can be used to mean “hijack a facebook account” without any literal sexual meaning in the usage per se on the part of the people using it. You said that you don’t (not see the word as always being literal), implying that you see every use of the word as literal. This is not how you “feel” about the word “rape” — those are not feelings you are describing at all — this is your insistence that the word — in this case “frape” — literally means sexual assault, and thus trivializes rape, whatever the usage and meaning of the word might be in the coterie in which it was used. Your understanding of the word’s meaning trumps the understanding of all parties in the conversation in which it was used.

The problem for me is that in what you write is the accusation that my friends are trivializing rape, and that this is in the category of what you don’t condone, implying they are committing a moral wrong. Those are very serious accusations (when I read what you wrote I thought “how dare you”), which I believe are unjustified. It is your apparent willingness to insult people this deeply because of your insistence that a word means what you say it means and not what context would indicate that is shameful — these are actual people about whom you are making these claims.

The word was new to me when I came across it and I found it a little startling and I doubt I could ever use it comfortably myself, but I saw how common it was in certain circles and then how common and even longterm it is across the Internet. There’s even a lot of discussion about the problematic nature of the word’s origins (there’s a FB page devoted to protesting its use, although it’s not particularly active). And as Chris notes, there are issues of sensitivity to take into account in its usage (and the usage of related words), depending on context. But an insistence that “the word always means literal rape” no matter the speaker or context is a claim that is difficult to respond to, since it is a proclamation that no further discussion is possible.

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By: arnold zwicky https://arnoldzwicky.org/2013/08/31/frape/#comment-54583
Mon, 02 Sep 2013 15:54:05 +0000http://arnoldzwicky.org/?p=16234#comment-54583No, that was totally what you were saying. Your understanding of the expression takes precedence over everyone else’s understanding.
Look, we all appreciate how you interpret the word. But you must equally appreciate how other people understand it.
And by the way, insulting me doesn’t increase the force of your opinion.
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By: Serene - momfoodproject.com https://arnoldzwicky.org/2013/08/31/frape/#comment-54582
Mon, 02 Sep 2013 15:44:40 +0000http://arnoldzwicky.org/?p=16234#comment-54582To Arnold: Good, since that’s not at all what I’m saying.
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