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I think of it more as the levels of competitive/competition. APB to me is more of a "casual" game, and all the balance, new janky weapons, mod creations, consumables, have pretty much shown that. Casual games still have a level of "competitiveness" however it's "casual. It's not like CSGO, OVERWATCH, or MW with "competitive scenes". There IS no competitive scene in APB. People keep harping that the game needs to cater to more "competitive" players, but that detracts from the base game which is inherently casual. It's wierd to wrap ones head around but "it's not competitive but has competition" fits. Like, you have competition for tic tac toe, and rock paper scissors, but it's generally not "CSGO competitive" level for 99.9% of people, so i wouldn't call it competitive, i'd call it "fun" or "casual". I don't call APB competitive, because it doesn't have a competitive scene, no competitive leaderboards, and it's clearly catered to the casual audience and nowhere on its site, steam, or webpages does it mention "competitive shooter". As such i do not define it as "competitive".

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This is exactly why I cut my paragraphs. It's completely pointless for me to write anything further to you because of how deep you are in your own "understandings" of the game from a casual perspective. Simply a waste of time. When someone is highly skilled in something that means that they understand it fully and have mastered it to it's core. They are automatically more educated on the matter and know better than the rest, otherwise they wouldn't be regarded as good at it. That's a fact for every single thing in the world, it's really not that difficult to grasp.

5 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

If you can find where it says "competitive" here, then I'll believe you.

It is clear as day that APB was and is intended to be a competitive shooter where players COMPETE to WIN or LOSE missions in a Player VS Player environment, where there are THREAT levels which determine what your skill level is (albeit flawed currently) and is a lot more about combat mechanics than it is about sandboxy realism like GTA is. I don't get how anyone can imagine that APB was meant to be casual when it so strongly leans on it's arcadey gunplay, movement and overall feel. If APB really was casual it would never have players taking it so seriously as to try and compete in it. No one competes in GTA (at least in any serious shooter game sense) because that game is actually casual and serves other purposes but APB isn't that. If APB was casual, it would look very different from what it is.

Whether it manages to uphold modern competitive standards currently is meaningless because it is an old game which was never properly finished, bugs weren't squashed for years on end due to development issues but it is clear that it was originally planned out and developped with competition in mind. It has so many competitive elements in it. Some things need to be fixed after the engine upgrade, all weapons across the board need a rebalance including grenades and vehicles need to be made less tanky if this game is go anywhere. It needs to cash in on how unique of a competitive game it can be instead of trying to be a shitty GTA clone which will get APB nowhere. GTA already exists and it does what people like you want it to do, much better.

Furthermore (mainly for everyone else reading this), I want to weigh in on a part of the casual community which are events (player and non-player created), car shows, customization, the Social District (and any upcoming features/minigames for it) and so on. Those are amazing to have in the game and should remain in the game. What I am against are the actual competitive oriented modes (such as missions) be left in such a sorry state as they are now. Broken weapons, RNG to the skies, extremely stale meta and choice of effective loadouts, overpowered tanky cars, grenades that 85 you, players' cars out of your mission colliding with you being able to grief you and ghost for the enemy team, horrific matchmaking, new player nightmare and so on. That is mine and most good players' problem with APB, not the other casual aspects.

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This is exactly why I cut my paragraphs. It's completely pointless for me to write anything further to you because of how deep you are in your own "understandings" of the game from a casual perspective. Simply a waste of time. When someone is highly skilled in something that means that they understand it fully and have mastered it to it's core. They are automatically more educated on the matter and know better than the rest, otherwise they wouldn't be regarded as good at it. That's a fact for every single thing in the world, it's really not that difficult to grasp.

It is clear as day that APB was and is intended to be a competitive shooter where players COMPETE to WIN or LOSE missions in a Player VS Player environment, where there are THREAT levels which determine what your skill level is (albeit flawed currently) and is a lot more about combat mechanics than it is about sandboxy realism like GTA is. I don't get how anyone can imagine that APB was meant to be casual when it so strongly leans on it's arcadey gunplay, movement and overall feel. If APB really was casual it would never have players taking it so seriously as to try and compete in it. No one competes in GTA (at least in any serious shooter game sense) because that game is actually casual and serves other purposes but APB isn't that. If APB was casual, it would look very different from what it is.

Whether it manages to uphold modern competitive standards currently is meaningless because it is an old game which was never properly finished, bugs weren't squashed for years on end due to development issues but it is clear that it was originally planned out and developped with competition in mind. It has so many competitive elements in it. Some things need to be fixed after the engine upgrade, all weapons across the board need a rebalance including grenades and vehicles need to be made less tanky if this game is go anywhere. It needs to cash in on how unique of a competitive game it can be instead of trying to be a shitty GTA clone which will get APB nowhere. GTA already exists and it does what people like you want it to do, much better.

Furthermore (mainly for everyone else reading this), I want to weigh in on a part of the casual community which are events (player and non-player created), car shows, customization, the Social District (and any upcoming features/minigames for it) and so on. Those are amazing to have in the game and should remain in the game. What I am against are the actual competitive oriented modes (such as missions) be left in such a sorry state as they are now. Broken weapons, RNG to the skies, extremely stale meta and choice of effective loadouts, overpowered tanky cars, grenades that 85 you, players' cars out of your mission colliding with you being able to grief you and ghost for the enemy team, horrific matchmaking, new player nightmare and so on. That is mine and most good players' problem with APB, not the other casual aspects.

Winning missions give money, but a time (and dont need a lot especially if you purchase something in armas..) you have everything u need/want you may finish with 20kk after ages cause you dont know how to spend these money, Winning Standing, but after reach max rank and contacts you dont care anymore.

"Honourable mention" are the Joker tickets, It gave a little refresh in game, you may collect a little more of them competiting for winning missions, but same as before, this is more something will appreciate free-to-players or casual players.

Other games may have a lot more features like for example clan wars, buying houses, crafting etc for better standing and for pushing players for competing between them for items.

Here mainly after you have a 4x4 and a pair of permanent weapons, some character/ car mods, you may do anything and you dont need anything more for competing... so reason for why I am agree with the fact APB is more of all a CASUAL GAME than competitive game.

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Winning missions give money, but a time (and dont need a lot especially if you purchase something in armas..) you have everything u need/want you may finish with 20kk after ages cause you dont know how to spend these money, Winning Standing, but after reach max rank and contacts you dont care anymore.

"Honourable mention" are the Joker tickets, It gave a little refresh in game, you may collect a little more of them competiting for winning missions, but same as before, this is more something will appreciate free-to-players or casual players.

Other games may have a lot more features like for example clan wars, buying houses, crafting etc for better standing and for pushing players for competing between them for items.

Here mainly after you have a 4x4 and a pair of permanent weapons, some character/ car mods, you may do anything and you dont need anything more for competing... so reason for why I am agree with the fact APB is more of all a CASUAL GAME than competitive game.

Wait, what are you saying? Obtaining the items required to even play the game competitively is not competing itself. It's what comes after you obtain said items when you play against other competitive players. Items are not in any way connected to competing.

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Wait, what are you saying? Obtaining the items required to even play the game competitively is not competing itself. It's what comes after you obtain said items when you play against other competitive players. Items are not in any way connected to competing. wat?

Struggle to understand your thought Flaw.

If one entry in a competition what do u think that one will aim?

A reward or something to gain excatly, right?

Ex. If I am working hard and good, it's not only for a sense of duty or just improving myself, I am aiming to better position and better rewards.

Switch sense of duty with sense of child enjoyment in a game, the thought is the same.

Longer in the time, Just the same routine and Satisfactions, unfortunately, arent enough for several reason... at least for the majority of people.

Then for you it's enough just to see after press TAB for seeing the score, "YOU WIN", ok my wrong, but for me the "actually rewards" (and about also the weapon balancing you too I guess you dont like excatly ) of APB worth for playing as casual player, not as a competitive one.

Maybe in future with new contenents, but for me actually absoluty no (but it's no so bad as a casual gaming, less headache when I return ).

Ex. If I am working hard and good, it's not only for a sense of duty or just improving myself, I am aiming to better position and better rewards.

Switch sense of duty with sense of child enjoyment in a game, the thought is the same.

Longer in the time, Just the same routine and Satisfactions, unfortunately, arent enough for several reason... at least for the majority of people.

Then for you it's enough just to see after press TAB for seeing the score, "YOU WIN", ok my wrong, but for me the "actually rewards" (and about also the weapon balancing you too I guess you dont like excatly ) of APB worth for playing as casual player, not as a competitive one.

Maybe in future with new contenents, but for me actually absoluty no (but it's no so bad as a casual gaming, less headache when I return ).

Bye

I suppose you don't understand the real competitive mindset in games in general. No one plays CS:GO, LoL, Dota, R6S or any competitive game to get content or in-game rewards. It's all for satisfaction from playing good and improving, winning and so on. It has nothing to do with in-game rewards. If we're talking Esports then it's monetary rewards and cups but that's it. It's all about improving and winning. None of the good players in APB care about standing or APB$ or Joker Ticket rewards lol. They want to play better than the enemy team and win. That is the satisfaction.

Not everyone understands it, I have enough casual gamer friends to know that they don't get it and that's fine. It's the main reason I play most games at all, I play most games competitively.

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I suppose you don't understand the real competitive mindset in games in general. No one plays CS:GO, LoL, Dota, R6S or any competitive game to get content or in-game rewards. It's all for satisfaction from playing good and improving, winning and so on. It has nothing to do with in-game rewards. If we're talking Esports then it's monetary rewards and cups but that's it. It's all about improving and winning. None of the good players in APB care about standing or APB$ or Joker Ticket rewards lol. They want to play better than the enemy team and win. That is the satisfaction.

Not everyone understands it, I have enough casual gamer friends to know that they don't get it and that's fine. It's the main reason I play most games at all, I play most games competitively.

I guess to understand now better your thought, my apoligize I guess I understood all wrong from the beginning, maybe because almost all the game I played as casual player and then after some times when I dont feel to enjoy it anymore or I suppose to have archieved/ explored all worth or just the publisher/ company start to fuck up all the game with bullspit crazy pay-to-win mechanics to try I quit them ( then maybe I return, damn nostalgia for the nasty/ funny moments XD)

2 hours ago, Lily Rain said:

3 hours ago, lvrq said:

or how about, we stop nerfing guns and buff the trash one so they stand a chance

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I suppose you don't understand the real competitive mindset in games in general. No one plays CS:GO, LoL, Dota, R6S or any competitive game to get content or in-game rewards. It's all for satisfaction from playing good and improving, winning and so on. It has nothing to do with in-game rewards. If we're talking Esports then it's monetary rewards and cups but that's it. It's all about improving and winning. None of the good players in APB care about standing or APB$ or Joker Ticket rewards lol. They want to play better than the enemy team and win. That is the satisfaction.

Not everyone understands it, I have enough casual gamer friends to know that they don't get it and that's fine. It's the main reason I play most games at all, I play most games competitively.

That's the problem though, APB has NONE of those competitive rewards nor competitive background. It doesn't even reward playing "competitively" very satisfactory, cool you won with like .75X-2X the cash as the losing team, oh wait, that guy did way better than half your team and got just as your team much from losing. It's fine to want to win and play, however you have to realize, that mindset has pretty much killed APB as well. ingame Cash barely means anything unless you're free to play and havn't bought a single weapon. Even that is now being negated because of joker tickets.

I have never, not once heard someone say "i quit APB because it's not competitive enough". I have heard them say "I quit APB because the community is toxic, the players glitch cheat and exploit to win, the matchmaking sucks. I got tired of people trying too hard all the time and got bored".

18 hours ago, Flaws said:

It is clear as day that APB was and is intended to be a competitive shooter where players COMPETE to WIN or LOSE missions in a Player VS Player environment, where there are THREAT levels which determine what your skill level is (albeit flawed currently) and is a lot more about combat mechanics than it is about sandboxy realism like GTA is. I don't get how anyone can imagine that APB was meant to be casual when it so strongly leans on it's arcadey gunplay, movement and overall feel. If APB really was casual it would never have players taking it so seriously as to try and compete in it. No one competes in GTA (at least in any serious shooter game sense) because that game is actually casual and serves other purposes but APB isn't that. If APB was casual, it would look very different from what it is.

You seem to forget that APB has always gotten all the backwash toxic community members that care only about wins. The majority of the casual playerbase who actually played for fun and cared about the game left. Why? Because the overt-competitive mindset of certain players and cheaters, and the lack of gm's and order given from the GMs. Want to know why the game population in joker/jericho dropped to below 200? Think real hard, its not hard to know why. What happens when you have an unregulated community that hates on any casual player, exploits every glitch and location, cares only about themselves and how easily they can pull that win for their dying twitch view count? What happens when toxic trash who only cares about competitiveness and winning chase away the literal lifeblood of the game? Look no further than APB. The competitive players shot themselves in a foot and sit there on a high horse saying the game isn't competitive enough. No, the game is fine, they are the ones taking it too seriously and destroying what little there is left. We no longer have a population for "competitive" players to constantly stomp for their ego and feel good winning.

18 hours ago, Flaws said:

Whether it manages to uphold modern competitive standards currently is meaningless because it is an old game which was never properly finished, bugs weren't squashed for years on end due to development issues but it is clear that it was originally planned out and developped with competition in mind. It has so many competitive elements in it. Some things need to be fixed after the engine upgrade, all weapons across the board need a rebalance including grenades and vehicles need to be made less tanky if this game is go anywhere. It needs to cash in on how unique of a competitive game it can be instead of trying to be a shitty GTA clone which will get APB nowhere. GTA already exists and it does what people like you want it to do, much better.

Furthermore (mainly for everyone else reading this), I want to weigh in on a part of the casual community which are events (player and non-player created), car shows, customization, the Social District (and any upcoming features/minigames for it) and so on. Those are amazing to have in the game and should remain in the game. What I am against are the actual competitive oriented modes (such as missions) be left in such a sorry state as they are now. Broken weapons, RNG to the skies, extremely stale meta and choice of effective loadouts, overpowered tanky cars, grenades that 85 you, players' cars out of your mission colliding with you being able to grief you and ghost for the enemy team, horrific matchmaking, new player nightmare and so on. That is mine and most good players' problem with APB, not the other casual aspects.

They removed leaderboards which was the ONLY competitive element in APB. Vehicles got buffed by G1 after the ALIG got buffed. Ironically counteracting the exact thing they tried to fix. What APB needs is a literal overhaul on the entire mission, matchmaking, spawn, and objective system, that I can agree on. But it's not because of "competition", it's because it's the only way to save the game at this point. G1 did a lot of things to help the game, rebalanced locations and fixed weapon issues, but it also left glaring issues which should have been fixed, regardless of "veteran" and "competitive player" outcry.

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That's the problem though, APB has NONE of those competitive rewards nor competitive background. It doesn't even reward playing "competitively" very satisfactory, cool you won with like .75X-2X the cash as the losing team, oh wait, that guy did way better than half your team and got just as your team much from losing. It's fine to want to win and play, however you have to realize, that mindset has pretty much killed APB as well. ingame Cash barely means anything unless you're free to play and havn't bought a single weapon. Even that is now being negated because of joker tickets.

Like I explained to PingOVER9000, it seems that you don't understand what a competitive mindset is about in general anyway even outside of gaming. It's not about competing for in-game rewards, it never has been. Refer to what I replied to him and he understood what I was talking about. It's only about improving and winning, it's not about in-game rewards.

28 minutes ago, Noob_Guardian said:

I have never, not once heard someone say "i quit APB because it's not competitive enough". I have heard them say "I quit APB because the community is toxic, the players glitch cheat and exploit to win, the matchmaking sucks. I got tired of people trying too hard all the time and got bored".

Considering that you are a casual player who hates on anyone who takes the game seriously, of course you wouldn't hear that from anyone as you aren't friends with anyone like that. I hear that from most people who quit the game that I've been in contact with for a prolonged period. On top of that, if you want to tell me that all your friends who quit because of "the players cheat" and "glitch" and "the matchmaking sucks" don't care about competing you are very wrong. If you don't care about winning and competing, none of those things would be an issue to you. You're just there to "have fun", right? You don't care about winning

No, no one enjoys losing at anything ever and there is no fun in that. And you being pissed off about how X and Y need a nerf or a change is further proof of that.

28 minutes ago, Noob_Guardian said:

You seem to forget that APB has always gotten all the backwash toxic community members that care only about wins. The majority of the casual playerbase who actually played for fun and cared about the game left. Why? Because the overt-competitive mindset of certain players and cheaters, and the lack of gm's and order given from the GMs. Want to know why the game population in joker/jericho dropped to below 200? Think real hard, its not hard to know why. What happens when you have an unregulated community that hates on any casual player, exploits every glitch and location, cares only about themselves and how easily they can pull that win for their dying twitch view count? What happens when toxic trash who only cares about competitiveness and winning chase away the literal lifeblood of the game? Look no further than APB. The competitive players shot themselves in a foot and sit there on a high horse saying the game isn't competitive enough. No, the game is fine, they are the ones taking it too seriously and destroying what little there is left.

So you want to tell me that the people who want to win don't care about the game? Mate, all you are doing is contradicting yourself. The players who play casually and just "have fun" usually care less about the game. The people who spend the time to get good and win care a lot more exactly due to that. They spend a lot more time on the game than anyone. Being competitive isn't toxic, it isn't bad in any way even if we (especially you on NA) have some very bad actors there who make it seem so. We've discussed this before and I explained that competition varies a ton between EU and NA and you've acknowledged it. The "toxic trash that only cares about competitiveness and winning" chased away your casual friends because of the matchmaking, because those players could not compete with the people who take it seriously. That would do the same for every single game out there regardless of how competitive it is or isn't. If they didn't care about winning it wouldn't make a difference to them. It's the matchmaking (for veterans) and the new player unfriendliness the game has (for new players) that chased away "the lifeblood" of the game. The game is not fine, mate. It needs so much work and it's only just beginning with the engine upgrade.

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Like I explained to PingOVER9000, it seems that you don't understand what a competitive mindset is about in general anyway even outside of gaming. It's not about competing for in-game rewards, it never has been. Refer to what I replied to him and he understood what I was talking about. It's only about improving and winning, it's not about in-game rewards.

Considering that you are a casual player who hates on anyone who takes the game seriously, of course you wouldn't hear that from anyone as you aren't friends with anyone like that. I hear that from most people who quit the game that I've been in contact with for a prolonged period. On top of that, if you want to tell me that all your friends who quit because of "the players cheat" and "glitch" and "the matchmaking sucks" don't care about competing you are very wrong. If you don't care about winning and competing, none of those things would be an issue to you. You're just there to "have fun", right? You don't care about winning

No, no one enjoys losing at anything ever and there is no fun in that. And you being pissed off about how X and Y need a nerf or a change is further proof of that.

So you want to tell me that the people who want to win don't care about the game? Mate, all you are doing is contradicting yourself. The players who play casually and just "have fun" usually care less about the game. The people who spend the time to get good and win care a lot more exactly due to that. They spend a lot more time on the game than anyone. Being competitive isn't toxic, it isn't bad in any way even if we (especially you on NA) have some very bad actors there who make it seem so. We've discussed this before and I explained that competition varies a ton between EU and NA and you've acknowledged it. The "toxic trash that only cares about competitiveness and winning" chased away your casual friends because of the matchmaking, because those players could not compete with the people who take it seriously. That would do the same for every single game out there regardless of how competitive it is or isn't. If they didn't care about winning it wouldn't make a difference to them. It's the matchmaking (for veterans) and the new player unfriendliness the game has (for new players) that chased away "the lifeblood" of the game. The game is not fine, mate. It needs so much work and it's only just beginning with the engine upgrade.

I don't mind losing, i just don't like losing to cheap tricks and broken things.

I guess it's good that you know "competitive players" who left because there's no reason to be ultra competitive in APB, that's more than I can say. But then again I was often grouped with newer players, silvers, and the average player trying to help them learn the ropes, and try to have fun, make friends, build a clan (even wanted a competitive aspect to that clan ironically), you know "casual things".

I've played like 5-6k hours and I realized that winning means very little to me. I find that it's the littler things that matter, making that cool jump, getting that one savior kill, making that perfect flank.I learned that "general" skill accounts for very little in APB. Timing, now that accounts for far more.

I used to try to improve myself, constantly try to win, learned plenty of tricks, tactics, learned how to break every area in the game with little difficulty. I learned how to counter most players play styles, abuse their weaknesses to be their downfalls. I got it so ingrained in me by now that it happens without trying. I'm not perfect with aiming by any means, sometimes it's spot on for hours, other times, its trash all day because I can't focus, hey it happens no biggy.

Now on Jericho the only people who give me any real issue in the game left are the same ones who have consistently abused exploits and glitch items/themselves where they shouldn't be over the years.

You know why I don't play competitively anymore? Because I have no reason to. Between no actual competitive support for the game, a handful of weapons that had been extremely imbalanced to where there was pretty much no competition if you weren't using one as well, and no clan wars. What is there? A "you win" that disappears at the end of the match, and little "ratio" in the statistics until you leave the district. Half the changes I'd like to make the game play balanced people are against because they define "competition" in with "ez wins for defense".

If the "hardest" players left for me to face are the ones who abuse glitches, broken animations, impossible to get into locations from special vegas jumps, and exploits. What is there left to improve? Aiming? Yeah I could, but that fluctuates greatly depending on mood for me that i'll never pin it down entirely.

Sure I won't always win every mission, that's fine, I don't feel like I have to. I've already gone on either 2 19x mission win streaks, or 1x 19 and 1x20. I don't care about win streaks anymore. The first of which was during gold lock. (You know, when golds were stuck facing rampant cheaters, exploiters, tryhards, qsers etc. Sadly those pictures were also deleted -.-)

Sorry if I tie competitiveness in APB to toxic gameplay it's nothing against you. It tends to happen when the only competitive players in the server tend to be toxic a--holes, and the pent up rage leaks out.

I'd honestly be fine with clan wars, and some form of leader boards for "competition". However, my primary focus and support tends to be more towards calling for game play aspects that i feel should become better balanced so that they are more enjoyable for the average player. As such this often headbutts against what competitive players want. (Though i'm still baffled at why certain things people call "competitive" when it very clearly creates an uneven playing field. hmm....)

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My point exactly. Which is why I am an advocate for reverting many of the weapon changes LO have done. The reason being that just because many of the lower skilled players say that X and Y weapons are broken it doesn't make it true. Any weapon could be in place of X or Y if the player wielding it is vastly superior in skill AND the weapon is commonly used by those high skill players. On top of that, those same lesser skilled players use actually relatively broken weapons (or weapons that are too easy to use) without realising that not only are they doing that but they are also being severely outclassed by better players with weapons that require way more skill and experience to use efficiently due to the skill gap. In the end it produces this big outrage by them, they go on forums, streams, reddit and such and complain about said weapon being broken meanwhile if they pick it up they wouldn't know how to handle it 1/100th the amount of high tier players. Essentially, it is the matchmaking's fault indirectly.

Also, if you want a definition of what I consider broken or easy to use. Basically any weapon that takes way too little effort/skill/knowledge to achieve something where most other guns require multiple times that amount of effort to achieve the same (or more). That's largely the formula. Some current examples are ATAC, Manic, FAR (now vs the current N-TEC 5), AMG variants, HVR, JG (vs CSG), PMG (in its current state). I can go into detail about why each of those being the way they are currently is a problem in a game that may or may not become more skill-based in the future.

2 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

I guess it's good that you know "competitive players" who left because there's no reason to be ultra competitive in APB, that's more than I can say. But then again I was often grouped with newer players, silvers, and the average player trying to help them learn the ropes, and try to have fun, make friends, build a clan (even wanted a competitive aspect to that clan ironically), you know "casual things".

A lot of players that I know and have/had kept contact with over the last 5+ years quit due to many of the decisions taken by the old and new devs. And it wasn't things such as who gets unbanned, who got to be an SPCT/tester (or whatever other meaningless crap people get butthurt about in APB) but actual key balancing decisions, things they've done to date or have yet to do (delaying way too long for simple fixes). One of the most positive changes in the history of APB was the bounty system and how LO handled it. It is impeccable how much better things are now, it does not punish you for being good at the game anymore.

Also, yes I also want to help out new players and I talk to new players on a daily basis and teach them things. It's also why I have many spent hours to create and update my APB guide, so I can link it to people and make it easier for both parties.

2 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

I've played like 5-6k hours and I realized that winning means very little to me. I find that it's the littler things that matter, making that cool jump, getting that one savior kill, making that perfect flank.I learned that "general" skill accounts for very little in APB. Timing, now that accounts for far more.

I used to try to improve myself, constantly try to win, learned plenty of tricks, tactics, learned how to break every area in the game with little difficulty. I learned how to counter most players play styles, abuse their weaknesses to be their downfalls. I got it so ingrained in me by now that it happens without trying. I'm not perfect with aiming by any means, sometimes it's spot on for hours, other times, its trash all day because I can't focus, hey it happens no biggy.

I'm close to clocking in 20k hours since 2010 (forum join date not accurate to when I started playing the game), although probably at least 5k are from Social. APB requires top tier reflexes, aim, high game sense and awareness, some prediction, some luck and experience with teamplay, tactics and how to push/defend points efficiently, meta loadouts. There are many factors and it's not a simple thing to learn on your own, you need good team mates to learn together or to have them teach you the ropes of advanced high skill APB play.

2 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

Now on Jericho the only people who give me any real issue in the game left are the same ones who have consistently abused exploits and glitch items/themselves where they shouldn't be over the years.

You know why I don't play competitively anymore? Because I have no reason to. Between no actual competitive support for the game, a handful of weapons that had been extremely imbalanced to where there was pretty much no competition if you weren't using one as well, and no clan wars. What is there? A "you win" that disappears at the end of the match, and little "ratio" in the statistics until you leave the district. Half the changes I'd like to make the game play balanced people are against because they define "competition" in with "ez wins for defense".

If the "hardest" players left for me to face are the ones who abuse glitches, broken animations, impossible to get into locations from special vegas jumps, and exploits. What is there left to improve? Aiming? Yeah I could, but that fluctuates greatly depending on mood for me that i'll never pin it down entirely.

Sure I won't always win every mission, that's fine, I don't feel like I have to. I've already gone on either 2 19x mission win streaks, or 1x 19 and 1x20. I don't care about win streaks anymore. The first of which was during gold lock. (You know, when golds were stuck facing rampant cheaters, exploiters, tryhards, qsers etc. Sadly those pictures were also deleted -.-)

Sorry if I tie competitiveness in APB to toxic gameplay it's nothing against you. It tends to happen when the only competitive players in the server tend to be toxic a--holes, and the pent up rage leaks out.

I'd honestly be fine with clan wars, and some form of leader boards for "competition". However, my primary focus and support tends to be more towards calling for game play aspects that i feel should become better balanced so that they are more enjoyable for the average player. As such this often headbutts against what competitive players want. (Though i'm still baffled at why certain things people call "competitive" when it very clearly creates an uneven playing field. hmm....)

Every even semi-competitive PvP game has it's meta loadouts, characters, items, abilities, etc. That's something you can never avoid regardless of how well balanced a game is. You don't necessarily need an official "clan war" mode, people have been playing arranged/scrims in APB in the gold districts for years, that is its only purpose until someone comes along to make it better. I agree that exploits, glitches and such are not competitive in any way but those players who do these things aren't the type of competitive I am talking about anyway. Those players are considered toxic silvers in EU and we pay them no mind. Besides, all of those glitches are bound to be fixed eventually. We also don't consider winning defense as a big deal at all due to how easy it is and it doesn't really show skill much. Aim is always good to be worked on.

Again, if you don't feel satisfaction from winning against equal+ skilled opp then competing in APB simply isn't for you. Winstreaks never really meant a lot due to the matchmaking unless we're talking 30-40+ which can be considered a bigger deal but you'd need a solid team for that.

I personally want 3 aspects to be worked on in APB by the devs. I want the comeptitive-oritended modes to be fixed up, polished, rebalanced correctly with input from the main players that care about them a lot who have the most experience with them. I also want the new players experience to be greatly improved, add a real visual training (like CS:GO's training course for example) which is forced on newly created accounts (not characters) which would also slow down rerolling cheaters in the process. I also would like more casual things such as player/non-player events to be worked on to be more fun and enjoyable. And it isn't impossible but it requires tons of work and help from the good-willed members of the community.

Regardless, this thread is way off the rails and OP even got banned or whatever from the forums anyway so this is where I stop.

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Here mainly after you have a 4x4 and a pair of permanent weapons, some character/ car mods, you may do anything and you dont need anything more for competing... so reason for why I am agree with the fact APB is more of all a CASUAL GAME than competitive game.

pretty much how meta works in competitive games. CS has only few guns in rotation, each one for each situation. Valorant has the same mechanic. Valorant has also meta characters that will always be chosen. Apb has few guns and vehicles to be able to compete. If the game is casual then none would whine at op guns that g1 released such as nano/troublemaker/yukon. Casual game doesn't need such amount of balance changes that apb got during its life. GTAV never had balance changes in terms of guns because none cares which weapon is broken and which one is trash in that type of games.

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pretty much how meta works in competitive games. CS has only few guns in rotation, each one for each situation. Valorant has the same mechanic. Valorant has also meta characters that will always be chosen. Apb has few guns and vehicles to be able to compete. If the game is casual then none would whine at op guns that g1 released such as nano/troublemaker/yukon. Casual game doesn't need such amount of balance changes that apb got during its life. GTAV never had balance changes in terms of guns because none cares which weapon is broken and which one is trash in that type of games.

Even casual games require proper weapon balance. Even competitive games like overwatch has changed weapon and character balance for the sole reason of -player enjoyment-.

No-one cares about that because GTA is pretty much just single-player with PVP aspects. That can't really be said for APB which is purely pvp, as such weapon balance matters far more. Even modern warfare has a number of weapon changes, along with APEX legends. Apex nerfed a LOT of weapons that were originally "really good" as well.

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Even casual games require proper weapon balance. Even competitive games like overwatch has changed weapon and character balance for the sole reason of -player enjoyment-.

No-one cares about that because GTA is pretty much just single-player with PVP aspects. That can't really be said for APB which is purely pvp, as such weapon balance matters far more. Even modern warfare has a number of weapon changes, along with APEX legends. Apex nerfed a LOT of weapons that were originally "really good" as well.

Modern warfare and apex both are competitive games, there’re tons of tournaments going in the games.

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I think instead of nerfing PMG, we just need to take a step back and see where the competition stands compared and make appropriate changes there, if anything revert OCA or buff for example.

Not sure why we instantly go "nerf" when the only reason it's so strong is because you guys begged to nerf the competitors. Really smart system we got there eh?

the oca getting pushed to .64s was a pretty textbook example of how the "buff stuff to compete" strategy can be just as bad as constant nerfs, and the oca at that point basically crushed smg balance by being easy to use and having a low ttk

a small nerf to the pmg (-5m effective range) would still allow it to outrange most other smg options without it slamming right up against midrange guns

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Imagine making multiple threads (not specifically this op) about nerfing this and that. Nerfing everything doesn't solve anything. As i said in another thread when you break the weapon balance of the game things are going to be all over the place. Thats the ONLY reason the pmg seems like its broken is because everything is in such disarray from what it use to be.