If XXXXXXXXXX is an individual person, is this a homophobic insult? Why or why not?If XXXXXXXXXX is not an individual person but a group or organization of some sort, is this a homophobic insult? Why or why not?

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Viceroy wrote:[The Biblical creation story] was written in a time when there was no way to confirm this fact and is in fact a statement of the facts.

If XXXXXXXXXX is an individual person, is this a homophobic insult? Why or why not?If XXXXXXXXXX is not an individual person but a group or organization of some sort, is this a homophobic insult? Why or why not?

I think it all depends on context and intentions.

If it is a factual statement, and somebody is simply informing another person that XXXXXXXX takes it up the ass, then no, I wouldn't consider it to be a homophobic insult. Maybe it's not the most politically correct way to tell somebody that somebody else is a gay male, but it still gets the point across without being homophobic.

Now, if it is being used as an insult, or to hurt somebody in some way, then obviously, it would be an insult. I don't know if it would be homophobic or not, but I guess if it's being used as an insult, then that implies that you would consider it insulting to take it up the ass, so I guess it could be construed as homophobic.

As for an organization, then following the logic in the paragraph above, I guess it could be considered a homophobic insult since organizations are not capable of actually taking it up the ass, or, being gay.

Phatscotty wrote:If the "individuals" are men....then the thing is, if the 2 guys who were talking about taking it up the ass in fact did take it up the ass, then it would be impossible to be homophobic.

Not really.

It's entirely possible for a closeted gay man who takes it up the ass to be homophobic. It's hypocritical as hell, but it can and does happen in real life.

As far as I know, whenever that phrase is used, it is implied that "taking it up the ass" was not consensual.

However, I imagine that if this phrase was used in a group of young gay men, some of them might be perplexed with the speaker's negative connotation because "taking it up the ass" could be perceived as quite pleasurable.

Given that above statement, I would concede that when this phrase is used amongst a group of young male heterosexuals, they would generally perceive this to be a bad thing as they tend not to be in favor of such sexual activities--except for those who are in to pegging, fingering, and what not by their female counterparts. So, this phrase again might lead to confusion among certain subgroups of the male heterosexual crowd.

I can only hope that one day, in this great nation, we may find ourselves above this Great Confusion. But seriously, I think it is amazing how subjective the meaning of words can be, and I am glad that such a process flourishes and sometimes eliminates the use of certain words among certain groups in a voluntary and generally informal manner--without the need for state intervention.

EDIT:To elaborate on the meaning of that phrase, it's generally used with a negative connotation. It's similar to saying, "Business X got fucked hard by recent regulation," or "She got fucked over by so-and-so." Generally, I hear that phrase being used to refer to organizations and not individuals--in a negative manner. I'm starting to recall George Carlin saying that someone got "fucked in the ass" while making a PPTTT! sound. The meaning of that is similar to "fucked over" or "wronged," thus the non-consensual nature of "getting fucked in the ass."

Last edited by BigBallinStalin on Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Army of GOD wrote:I'm not sure if it's homophobic. I guess it sort of is, but I have to admit I use this phrase (and other phrases of similar derogatory nature) often.

I agree with BBS though, is that the rhetorical meaning of the phrase is that it refers to the ass-rape being non-consensual, which is a shot at the person's masculinity.

Also, even in a consensual way, willingly taking it up the ass is pretty much still considered non-masculine.

Thus starts a long thread about bullying/accepting other lifestyles etc. etc.

I guess so, but these "hetero-normative assumption" debates are generally not worth getting into. I think Symmetry or "natty(_)dread" are bound to expand on that...

I tend to take things straight-up *(ha ha), so the phrase "getting fucked in the ass" simply means "getting fucked over" or "being wronged" or "got a bad deal." The gender studies people tend to take it much deeper than that, so then they usually posit that the meaning of these words (interpreted by them) has some strong influence on the way (most or many) people perceive homosexuality or masculinity.

I tend to think that the change occurs before they even notice it and without their gender studies analysis. It seems like they're in a little box, talking among themselves, and no one else really cares or is affected by them.

Army of GOD wrote:I'm not sure if it's homophobic. I guess it sort of is, but I have to admit I use this phrase (and other phrases of similar derogatory nature) often.

I agree with BBS though, is that the rhetorical meaning of the phrase is that it refers to the ass-rape being non-consensual, which is a shot at the person's masculinity.

Also, even in a consensual way, willingly taking it up the ass is pretty much still considered non-masculine.

Thus starts a long thread about bullying/accepting other lifestyles etc. etc.

I guess so, but these "hetero-normative assumption" debates are generally not worth getting into. I think Symmetry or "natty(_)dread" are bound to expand on that...

I tend to take things straight-up *(ha ha), so the phrase "getting fucked in the ass" simply means "getting fucked over" or "being wronged" or "got a bad deal." The gender studies people tend to take it much deeper than that, so then they usually posit that the meaning of these words (interpreted by them) has some strong influence on the way (most or many) people perceive homosexuality or masculinity.

I tend to think that the change occurs before they even notice it and without their gender studies analysis. It seems like they're in a little box, talking among themselves, and no one else really cares or is affected by them.

I agree with the interpretation of "getting fucked in the ass" as "being wronged" but I also use it in other ways, like when I totally pwn n00bs on Call of Duty and then talk trash on the microphone (I'm totally making this up, but the meaning of the anecdote remains) as an insult to their masculinity.

It, like other phrases and whatnot, just come about because of differences in cultures. Like, I grew up using the words "faggot" and "retard" but never intended their use to insult homosexuals (wait, that's offensive, right? I mean "gays") or the mentally handicapped. I don't consider myself a homophobe or mentallydisabledphobe, but I'm sure other people might think that I'm a dirty scoundrel or whatnot.

Channeling my inner BBS, I guess people (including myself) will have to look at the opportunity costs of eliminating these words/phrases from their vocabulary. I guess I'm just a stubborn deutschebag, but I know I don't have a hatred towards certain groups, so I'll probably continue using the words/phrases that some deem offensive and I know that I'll probably be able to go through my entire life using them without many people calling me out on my use of them.

Army of GOD wrote:I'm not sure if it's homophobic. I guess it sort of is, but I have to admit I use this phrase (and other phrases of similar derogatory nature) often.

I agree with BBS though, is that the rhetorical meaning of the phrase is that it refers to the ass-rape being non-consensual, which is a shot at the person's masculinity.

Also, even in a consensual way, willingly taking it up the ass is pretty much still considered non-masculine.

Thus starts a long thread about bullying/accepting other lifestyles etc. etc.

I guess so, but these "hetero-normative assumption" debates are generally not worth getting into. I think Symmetry or "natty(_)dread" are bound to expand on that...

I tend to take things straight-up *(ha ha), so the phrase "getting fucked in the ass" simply means "getting fucked over" or "being wronged" or "got a bad deal." The gender studies people tend to take it much deeper than that, so then they usually posit that the meaning of these words (interpreted by them) has some strong influence on the way (most or many) people perceive homosexuality or masculinity.

I tend to think that the change occurs before they even notice it and without their gender studies analysis. It seems like they're in a little box, talking among themselves, and no one else really cares or is affected by them.

I agree with the interpretation of "getting fucked in the ass" as "being wronged" but I also use it in other ways, like when I totally pwn n00bs on Call of Duty and then talk trash on the microphone (I'm totally making this up, but the meaning of the anecdote remains) as an insult to their masculinity.

It, like other phrases and whatnot, just come about because of differences in cultures. Like, I grew up using the words "faggot" and "retard" but never intended their use to insult homosexuals (wait, that's offensive, right? I mean "gays") or the mentally handicapped. I don't consider myself a homophobe or mentallydisabledphobe, but I'm sure other people might think that I'm a dirty scoundrel or whatnot.

Yeah. Intentions matter, but since they aren't readily perceived by others, then it's best to think of yourself as a marketer. When you speak, you should know your target market, or audience, so as not to unintentionally offend them.

Army of GOD wrote:Channeling my inner BBS, I guess people (including myself) will have to look at the opportunity costs of eliminating these words/phrases from their vocabulary. I guess I'm just a stubborn deutschebag, but I know I don't have a hatred towards certain groups, so I'll probably continue using the words/phrases that some deem offensive and I know that I'll probably be able to go through my entire life using them without many people calling me out on my use of them.

Like I said, "know your audience." So, you don't have to purge such sayings from your vocabulary, but that's my opinion. Sometimes, it's fun to use that kind of language around people who might be offended because it could present you the opportunity to talk about language, subjectivity, and whatever, which in turn provides an atypical avenue for them to discover who you really are.

It's fun, but be careful because that kind of plan can easily backfire. An easier way is to let someone say something inappropriate, and then maybe later, you could start that conversation with whoever. Anyway, enough rambling.

GreecePwns wrote:"XXXXXXXXXX takes it up the ass." If XXXXXXXXXX is an individual person, is this a homophobic insult? Why or why not?If XXXXXXXXXX is not an individual person but a group or organization of some sort, is this a homophobic insult? Why or why not?

In my view, this is not at all a homophobic insult. Presuming that the phrase is referring to something that is "very bad", it runs analogous the fact that something getting unceremoniously shoved up your ass is probably gonna hurt. Presumably, homosexuals...uh...have ceremony about it.

(Sorry, couldn't resist the terrible joke at the end.)

At any rate, if it is taken as homophobic, that presumes that anal sex doesn't happen in a heterosexual relationship? I'm not buying that.

...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.