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Chat log from the meeting on 2015-08-25

From OpenSimulator

[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: hello everyone :)
[11:03] Vivian Klees: hello Neb
[11:04] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi neb
[11:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Afternoon, nebadon
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: I loaded one of my models into Unity3D WebGL last night
[11:05] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: your big city ones?
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: http://projectrep.com/unity3d/test_006
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: yea
[11:06] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: did it blow up? :p
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: i wanted to see how well webgl could render it
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: take a look at link above :)
[11:06] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: waiting for it to load
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: ya its about 300mb
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: the enitre webgl output
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: use wasd to move
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: x makes you go up and space down
[11:07] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: och, that's bad viewer. it's not supporting cursor keys.
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: I dont know what im doing yet
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: Unity has no built in controls
[11:07] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: very cool
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: you have to program key bindings yourself
[11:07] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and very smooth and fast
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: its not so easy
[11:08] Kayaker Magic: It is just a grey box on FireFox on a Mac... or does that mean it is still downloading?
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: probably still loading give it a moment
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: should run in latest firefox on mac
[11:08] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: i tried last night but i gave up, thought it froze up, progress bar stuck at 50%, maybe i just didnt wait long enough
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: hmm maybe its about 300mb
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: my server is pretty fast
[11:08] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: but very intressting to see how the build the terrain when you move
[11:08] Kayaker Magic: progress bar? I wish I could see a progress bar.
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: when a lot of people hit it, they probably throttle it a bit
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: maybe try chrome
[11:09] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: working fine on my version of FF
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: if you have it
[11:09] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: that's remarkably mooth
[11:09] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: wasd works default, except it's wrong side of keyboard
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: ya
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: binding keys in web browser isnt always easy
[11:09] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: what's the total filesize of the region?
[11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, I thought you were finding it slow when you touched something
[11:10] Vivian Klees: not impressive
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: that model is about 1000x700m
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: Andrew i was
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: it was my Antivirus
[11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: oh
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: Unity3D launches like 100 exe fles
[11:10] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and you kept it pretty low poly I assume
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: Spybot Search and Destroy was set to scan all exe files on launch
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: so Unity was launching like 100 virus scans
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: unity launches all kinds of tools in the backgrounds
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: like python
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: and some optimizer tools
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: and when your compiling your website, it launches like 100 python.exe
[11:11] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: loaded ok this time, looking good for webgl
[11:12] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, Its a bit sluggish for me but I have a few things running here. BTW, I liked your inclusion of Suzanne in there. :)
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: yea, Unity3D gave me the shortest path to WebGL
[11:12] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: lol
[11:12] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I just saw Suzanne too
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: I use that as a anchor
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: so i can realign things in world
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: whenever I export peices from blender
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: i include that
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: than make it the root prim
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: and align it to the anchor in world
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: this way i can easily replace sections or add new things
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: without spending alot of time realigning things in world
[11:13] Andrew Hellershanks: Do you have that script that lets you touch two objects and it moves the one to the position of the other?
[11:13] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I read in a recent viewer release blog about it including the experimental LL code to allow mesh to be uploaded with more than 8 mats
[11:13] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: any chance of that code making its way into Opensim?
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: Aine, i wouldnt get to excited about that
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: all it does is split your models
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: the limit is still 8
[11:14] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: oh
[11:14] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: then forget it
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: it just doensnt throw away extra levels anymore
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: like it used
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: used to
[11:14] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I'll split it in Blender and maintain my normals
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: yea
[11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: I'll have to try texturing a mesh sometime to see how it handles a house.
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: its much safer to do it yourself
[11:14] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yah
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: so you dont get unexpected results
[11:15] Robert Adams kommt in Chat-Reichweite (13.86 m).
[11:15] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I was hoping against hope that they were allowing more than 8 faces
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: unfortunately no
[11:15] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: gna, i like fbx more. and to no materials limit. sadly not suitable for SL / SO
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: I think there is only so much you can send before really degrading performance
[11:15] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi robert
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: even Unity has limits
[11:15] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: is there any reaason why *we* can't allow more than 8 faces?
[11:16] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: the viewer
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: that would probably require redoing protocols
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: and possibly breaking old viewer compatibility
[11:16] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: the viewer is one big problem for opensim
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: basically ditch all existing viewers that dont add new code
[11:16] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yeah
[11:16] Andrew Hellershanks: mesh v2 :)
[11:16] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but faces aren't touched much by viewer code
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: more live mesh v4
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:17] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's a "click on this and texture it"
[11:17] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: rather than tab through faces or picking one by number
[11:17] Robert Adams: how do you "degrade performance"? calling it a criminal or that it has loose morals?
[11:17] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: if it touch my face, i really need to move further away from the screen :D
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: its really the same reason we dont want larger than 1024 textures
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: you can clobber streaming
[11:17] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: hm
[11:18] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: execpt you and I and everyone else working with mesh just ends up breaking the object into pieces
[11:18] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so you're increasing the vert count and using it anyway
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: well
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: well you still need a limit
[11:19] Robert Adams: there should be a way to manage the larger object without all the mesh pieces but the existing viewer/protocol doesn't allow it any other way
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: you wouldnt want a mesh with 1000 materials
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: you have to draw the line at some point
[11:19] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I wouldn't want to texture one, that's for sure :p
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: i say draw it in the most favorable light to performance
[11:19] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: well, if you could build more sccaled by fixing the wrong camera angle you can use smalelr textures without losing quality
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: we shouldnt trade performance for convienience
[11:19] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: the limit would be about 128k mats :p
[11:19] Robert Adams: give an artist 1000 possible textures and they will use 1000 textures :)
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: then complain they need 10 more
[11:20] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: since that's the face limit with a 64k vert limit
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: :P
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: no its far less than 65k isnt it
[11:20] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: ~64k verts
[11:20] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so if those are all tri you can get up around 128k faces
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: oh ya you are right
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: i was mixing the vertice vs triangle #'s
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: beleive it or not
[11:21] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: (I'm not saying it's a good idea to upload a mesh that size.....just saying it's possible)
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: Unity3D has same limits
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: its a 16bit limit
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: its not a random decision to cut it off at 65k
[11:22] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yeah,m I didn't think so
[11:22] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I assumed it was to fit a db definition for the field
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: actually many of the mesh formats themselves
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: have those limits too
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: .3ds does for sure
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: collada does not
[11:23] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: those are stored files though....for the most part you only got to those sizes when you apply multiple levels of subdiv
[11:23] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: which for render you wouldn't do
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: ya
[11:23] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: (for render output I mean)
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: thats why modifiers are important
[11:23] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yeah
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: you wouldnt even be able to use the editor tools
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: without modifiers :)
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: it would be so laggy
[11:24] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I have a 5m poly Blender structure made entirely using array modifiers....the actual total model poly cound is under 100 faces :p
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: with all that visible geometry
[11:24] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's easy to do with chains and things like that
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: yea
[11:24] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: or a screw modifier
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: arrays too
[11:25] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yeps
[11:25] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I use them all the time...extremely handy
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: ya makes things a lot easier :)
[11:25] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: one lonely little torus + array + path
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: you can see high quality blender renders of my WebGL model
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: http://projectrep.com/Upplands_Vasby/preview/
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: I have most of it uploaded into OpenSimulator now too
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: but havent taken any screenshots or video yet
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: i have definitely decided I am not going to willingly use prims anymore to build :)
[11:27] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: well, your build is difefrent. because it's only solid models where you cannot go inside
[11:27] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I use a mix
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: ya but that wouldnt make a huge different Richardus
[11:27] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I find that the physics of mesh is still incredibly unreliable
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: really?
[11:28] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes
[11:28] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Well, i start to get fun with mesh to. only not for SL or OS. to difficult
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: I havent had that experience
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: the limits are much lower for physics
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: 16k triangles
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: try to avoid using viewer generated physics
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: i usually almost always upload the same collada file
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: on the physics tab
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: select from File
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: and select same Collada
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: that seems to give me best results
[11:29] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it won't reliably take my separate physics files....you can't load physics files if importing a linkset....and generated physics is a complete crap shoot
[11:29] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i did hear that's bad idea too. but for me it worked always or make your own collision shape
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: I have not experienced that
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: it always works well for me
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: even driving vehciles over roads and suck
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: such*
[11:30] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: if your physics is box, sure
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: oh you mean the physical item itself
[11:30] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but if it's more complex than that it rapidly becomes unreliable
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: not what you are colliding with
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: i misunderstood
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: sorry
[11:30] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: both
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: yes physical moving mesh objects are not as good as they could be for sure
[11:30] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: a mesh building half the time you can't walk through a door
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: but all the static objects for me have been great
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: that means your exceeding 16k triangles
[11:31] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so you have to make the building phantom and add invisible prim wals
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: you shouldnt
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: i have never had to do that myself
[11:31] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: with a 88-poly building I don't see how I can exceed 16 tri
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: but I can say when I have seen that its because your exceeding limits
[11:31] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Aine, viewer physics ?
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: a good way to test your model
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: is upload it with Radegast viewer
[11:32] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: *16k
[11:32] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: with good physics or correct setting in vuiewer upload it's never needed
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: if it looks perfect after uploading with Radegast
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: its likely going to work fine in almost all aspects
[11:32] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: just use the viewer physics previewer says already very much
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: radegast does no decimation or splitting
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: its as is
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: for physics and visuals
[11:32] Deadly Intentions kommt in Chat-Reichweite (18.89 m).
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: so you quickly find out if you ar exceeding limits
[11:33] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: kk
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: cause the building will look like a giant pile of triangles
[11:33] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so you upload all of your mesh with Radegast?
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: the viewer tries to mask your problems
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: by auto correcting
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: and it does a bad job
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: LL does this
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: because its hard to erase broken models
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: if you are going to test this be sure your uploaded file has a unique name too
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: so you can easier erase it from console
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: if its covering the entire region in triangles
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: which can happen
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: that said too
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: if the model uploaded in radegast looks good
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: erase that model
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: and reupload with regular viewer
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: its not mandatory
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: but lik i said models uploaded with radegast are full blown 100% quality
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: no LOD gets generated or uploaded
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: everything is HIGH
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: physics is HIGH
[11:35] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so your workflow for every mesh is upload with Rad, go in world, check it, delete it, reupload it with another viewer?
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: but like i said if it works ou know your model is below all the supported limits
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: no
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: only models im unsure of
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: i dont do it for everything of course
[11:35] Deadly Intentions kommt in Chat-Reichweite (18.36 m).
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: say i upload a model and i cant walk through a door
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: i will then do it with radegast
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: to see what happens
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: its easy to miss a peice of your mesh that is more complex than your realize
[11:36] Deadly Intentions kommt in Chat-Reichweite (18.70 m).
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: or forget about a modifier or something
[11:37] Andrew Hellershanks just realized one of the 5 viewers he has installed is Replex.
[11:37] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: which is why I tend to make separate physics meshes in the first place
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: that is the downside of modiifers
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: you forget you have a subsurface modifier enabled
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: when you edit that object it looks low poly
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: but when you export and apply its 50k vertices now
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: anyway radegast helps me a lot
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: plus I always upload my mesh terrains with radegast
[11:38] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: kk....I'll try that
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: you want your terrain to always be FULL
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: otherwise your avatar may not collide correctly
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: and your floating in areas
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: or knee deep in others
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: places you expect avatars to constantl be gathering and standing and colliding wit stuff
[11:39] Andrew Hellershanks: Does Blender show the true poly count when there are modifiers on the model?
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: you want to use as high a quality for mesh you can afford
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: it depends
[11:39] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it does in object mode
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: on if you have it visualized
[11:39] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: in edit mode it doesn't
[11:40] Kayaker Magic: Robert: Bullets don't work in Bulletsim, if I throw a physicl object it does not genrate collision events when it hits things, even when it lands on the ground and is skittering around. There is a Mantis for this.
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: its possible to have modifiers not visible in editor
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: but they apply on export or render
[11:40] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and yeah, modifers have to active
[11:40] Andrew Hellershanks: I was thinking of the numbers that appear in the top bar of the program
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: right
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: as long as you have the modifier visible in editor
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: it will show the count proper
[11:40] Andrew Hellershanks: oh
[11:40] Kayaker Magic: Is anything going to hapen to fix this soon?
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: but thats not always the case
[11:40] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: in edit mode it shows the model counts
[11:40] Robert Adams: which mantis is that, Kayaker
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: Kayaker you have to make bullets like 1m long
[11:41] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: in object mode it shows the count *after* any modifiers are applied if they're visibility is turned on
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: Alcicia didnt we discuss this?
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: Alicia*
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: you cant make microscopic bullets
[11:41] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: kayaker, i had that problem, the trick is to make the bullet prim long and also set material and restitution so it reduces the chance of bouncing off
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: they need to be like 1m long
[11:41] Kayaker Magic: I'll go look up the Mantis
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: small prims get culled from physics
[11:42] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: material flesh and restitution set to 0 will reduce the bounce off issues, longer prims fix the not actual collision
[11:42] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: i have the prims about 0.5 m and that seems to work fine, 1m might be overkill, best to experiment with different values
[11:43] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 wonders what a handgun with a 1m-long bullet would be like
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: Desert Eagle .50
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:43] Robert Adams: its more that they have to be there for the tenth of a second simulation period or there is tunneling
[11:43] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: scale we are using is <0.3, 0.3, 0.5> i think
[11:44] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: guess you don't have to worry about concealed weapons very much
[11:44] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: robert, they can also bounce off with out triggering script events, even tho the physics must have detected the collision to make it bounce off
[11:45] Kayaker Magic: The mantis is 6496 for bullets in bulletsim
[11:45] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: just doesnt pass the collision to the screipt
[11:45] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: script*
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: the X in xeingine is actually algebraic variable for how many times before it fails :P
[11:46] Andrew Hellershanks: Nebadon, how small an object gets culled from physics?
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: its a variable in OpenSim.ini Andrew
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: i think its .1
[11:46] Robert Adams: if that is happening, it is how the mesh penetrations are computed... the meshes collide, penetration is corrected (bounces off) then the meshes are checked for colliding and they aren't colliding any more
[11:46] Kayaker Magic: I want to detect bullets hitting the ground, I see them land, bounce around, but I hardly ever get land collision events.
[11:47] Kayaker Magic: Making a bullet long helps with colisions with other prims, but doesn't help with the land.
[11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, ok. I'll check that. I've had an issue with a snowball thrower where the snowballs would bounce.
[11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: off things.
[11:47] Robert Adams: 'collisions' are not generated when two meshes intersect.... they are computed by checking the meshes at the end of the simulation period for overlap
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: Andrew > PhysicalPrimMin = 0.01
[11:47] Robert Adams: that could be how Bullet does it... other physics engines might do it better
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: is the default
[11:47] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: think xengine just to slow. that's why i gave up with y train to. the results where to random
[11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: oh, right. that setting
[11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: I think the snowballs were bigger than that.
[11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: I haven't used it in a while.
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: well machine guns will ultimately kill xengine events
[11:48] Kayaker Magic: I'm using prims for bullets, sometimes sculpts. I've seen people use weird twisted cut toruses in SL to try and increase the probability of a collision working....
[11:48] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Well, it's machine gun you know. very deadly :)
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: xengine only seems to be able to process so many events simultanouesly before going belly up
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: maybe just a threading issue
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: its way to easy to kill xengine
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: this is what I would hope MOSES team would realize
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: before chasing physx
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: to fix their problem
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: they dont realize they are going to have same exact problem
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi flüstert: but some people need to learn the hard way :P
[11:50] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: lol
[11:50] Kayaker Magic: I will make a simple test of objects falling and not generating land collisions, and submit a Mantis just for that.
[11:51] Kayaker Magic: *land collsion events
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: do land collision events work right in Vars?
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: I know they didnt in megas
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: but never tested in vars
[11:51] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: i think so, im sure id have had problems come up if they didnt
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: yea
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: likely
[11:51] Robert Adams: I should fix ray casting so guns don't have to throw bullts
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: ya
[11:52] Kayaker Magic: YES!
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: so raycast uses physics
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: and not C#
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: the current V3 raycast
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: while its great much better
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: it still is harsh
[11:52] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: i couldnt use ray casting as our projectiles have a partcle effect so are visible traveling through the sim
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: cpu spikes with 16 of those laser beam scripts
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: events start failing
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: if you rapid fire llCastRay
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: it misses about 60% of them
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: you get a null response
[11:53] Robert Adams: alicia, could still throw prims for the effect... but don't rely on collisions
[11:53] Simulator Version v0.5 ruft: OpenSim 0.8.2.0 Dev 1dae36f: 2015-08-23 15:31:25 -0700 (Unix/Mono)
[11:53] Robert Adams: there is so much to rewrite in OS
[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[11:54] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: robert would be hard to account for delay, if the projectile hits and the avatar has moved after firing
[11:54] OSG8B POSTER: active
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: gives you time for dramatic death animation :P
[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks laughs
[11:55] Kayaker Magic: I've been moving non-physical phantom prims on parabolic paths to the locations llCastray found.
[11:55] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: hehe we trigger the splat animation when it hits
[11:55] Kayaker Magic flüstert: It's not rocket science. No wait, maybe it is!
[11:55] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: No, its bullet sience
[11:56] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: its not science, its magik :)
[11:56] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: It's just playing the lottery
[11:56] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but you're using Newtonian mechanics.....you need to do quantum bullets
[11:56] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: then all you need to do is generate a random number to decide if it hits
[11:56] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: a quontum bullet would be every where at the same time, so would every one die? lol
[11:56] Kayaker Magic: The physical bullets that pass through objects with no collisions, that's quantum tunneling
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: Neurino Gun
[11:57] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: see....the physics engine is even more advanced than we thought
[11:57] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: but untill u see the bullet it doesnt exist to close your eyes and your safe
[11:57] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's already quantum
[11:58] Kayaker Magic: When god fixes the bugs in his physics engine, things will stop tunneling
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: Neutrinos!
[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: It operates in a different reality
[11:58] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Carefull aine, don't trigger a singularity
[11:58] Robert Adams: a Virtual reality!!
[11:59] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: maybe it's best to think of bullets like dark matter.....no matter what kind of detection device you use the odds of actually observing one are infinitesimally small
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[12:00] Robert Adams: I've gotta run... take care all
[12:00] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Dark matter never get far, it's to heavy
[12:00] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: bye Robert
[12:00] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: bye robert
[12:00] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and I should run as well...have a great week everyone
[12:00] Kayaker Magic: I have to run also. Bye all
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: k thanks everyone
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: same time next week :)
[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: Dark matter? Isn't that what they use to fuel the Planet Express ship?
[12:01] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: bye robert
[12:01] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: dark matter nibbler poop yes lol
[12:01] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Yes andrew,
[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm heading out too.
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi flüstert: kk see you guys on IRC :)
[12:01] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: why you think i say it's to heavy to shoot :P
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: laterz