sin(-x) which should transform the sin graph by flipping it around the y axis, followed by sin((-x)+pi/2) which should shift the graph backward by pi/2. However this graph looks like cosx flipped around the x axis..?

Alternatively I call this sin-(x-pi/2), so that's sin((x)-pi/2) which shifts the graph to the right by 1/4 of a period, then sin-((x)-pi/2) which flips it around the y axis, although by this time the graph is symmetrical about the axis anyway and so, again, I end up with cos(-x), cosx flipped around the x axis.

So in conclusion by transforming I'm finding that -cosx=sinpi/2-x, which is wrong. What's up?

Thanks. :D

Apr 15th 2008, 06:45 PM

Mathstud28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xei

Hi, could somebody clear this up.

cosx=sinpi/2-x

I must be doing something wrong, because as far as I'm aware this is

sin(-x) which should transform the sin graph by flipping it around the y axis, followed by sin((-x)+pi/2) which should shift the graph backward by pi/2. However this graph looks like cosx flipped around the x axis..?

Alternatively I call this sin-(x-pi/2), so that's sin((x)-pi/2) which shifts the graph to the right by 1/4 of a period, then sin-((x)-pi/2) which flips it around the y axis, although by this time the graph is symmetrical about the axis anyway and so, again, I end up with cos(-x), cosx flipped around the x axis.

So in conclusion by transforming I'm finding that -cosx=sinpi/2-x, which is wrong. What's up?

Thanks. :D

The best way I can think to explain this is that if you think about it....the graphs of and are out of phase by ...therefore that is the easiest graphic way of showing the identity

Apr 16th 2008, 06:28 AM

Xei

Thanks, I see that, but then why aren't the identities expressed as

?

And also, what's wrong with my methodology above?

Apr 16th 2008, 07:18 AM

Isomorphism

Well if you want to map a function f(x) to f(ax+b), then translating it first and then compressing gives different result from doing it the other way round.
The right way is to translate first then, compress.
In your case translate by then flip, you will get what you want.

What you have done is wrong because when you first flipped it and then translated it by , you have essential translated in the flipped axis. In other words, from the original axis point of view, you have translated the graph by in the opposite direction. That is to say, you flipped, thus that gave -x, then you translated by , which is actually a in the original axis.Thus it gave you (Wink)

Apr 16th 2008, 08:57 AM

Xei

Hmm... why do you do the translation first?

From how I understand functions, say we have

sin(x)

Then we translate to the left by pi/2 to get

sin(x+pi/2)

Which looks like the cosine graph.

Now say u=x+pi/2

So the function is currently sinu

Then we do the flip around the axis as you say, giving

sin-u

Which is

sin-(x+pi/2)

Which is

sin(-x-pi/2)?

Which is incorrect...

I don't understand why you can't say u=x-pi/2 and then the function =sin-u=sin(pi/2-x) which would achieved by translating right then flipping?

I'm confused. :(

Apr 16th 2008, 06:21 PM

Mathstud28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xei

Hmm... why do you do the translation first?

From how I understand functions, say we have

sin(x)

Then we translate to the left by pi/2 to get

sin(x+pi/2)

Which looks like the cosine graph.

Now say u=x+pi/2

So the function is currently sinu

Then we do the flip around the axis as you say, giving

sin-u

Which is

sin-(x+pi/2)

Which is

sin(-x-pi/2)?

Which is incorrect...

I don't understand why you can't say u=x-pi/2 and then the function =sin-u=sin(pi/2-x) which would achieved by translating right then flipping?

I'm confused. :(

Because you would get the negative sine curve...for reinforement consider the fact that the sine curve is odd...therefore

Apr 16th 2008, 07:53 PM

Isomorphism

Hey, you are flipping the wrong way. Replacing x by -x is flipping about y axis.
The problem is you are seeing sin(-x) = -sin x and thinking about flipping the curve about x-axis. You should not do this. In the procedure explained, when you translate by pi/2, you no longer have a curve that looks like sin(In fact it is cos). Thus "sin(-x) = -sin x" will not hold.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xei

Which is

sin-(x+pi/2) ====> Wrong

The graphical method described actually is asking you to replace all x by -x. Thats what flipping does anyway. Thus at this step you have x + pi/2 changing to -x+pi/2