I watched 3 and 4 last night. Shootout was very intense, but after reading a little about it a lot of people say it was more chaotic and longer in real life. The show obviously shows ATF agents shooting the dogs, and then it seemed the agents opened fire on the house first. It's still not clear who shot first.

Wikipedia wrote:ATF agents stated that they heard shots coming from within the compound, while Branch Davidian survivors claimed that the first shots came from the ATF agents outside. A suggested reason may have been an accidental discharge of a weapon, possibly by an ATF agent, causing the ATF to respond with fire from automatic weapons.[35] Other reports claim the first shots were fired by the ATF "dog team" sent to kill the dogs in the Branch Davidian kennel.[39] Three Army National Guard helicopters were used as aerial distraction, and all took incoming fire but did not return fire.[40] During the first shots, Koresh was wounded, shot in the wrist. The exchange of fire continued, but 45 minutes into the raid the gunfire began to slow down as agents began to run low on ammunition. The shooting continued for two hours.[42]

Highlight of episode 4 was Shannon's character talking with Steve after dropping off the milk. They were able to have an honest conversation without their superiors listening in. These were both 2 logical guys and the show makes it seem like they could have worked it out if it weren't for David and the head FBI guy.

The show really does have me sympathizing for a cult (but don't use that word). It seems like 95% of the people in the compound are good people, they were just brainwashed by a charismatic preacher. David is really coming unhinged though and showing his true colors.

I feel like in school I was taught this event was a mass suicide. I honestly didn't even know what really happened until watching this. I couldn't believe it. Very hard to watch. I found myself sympathizing with the branch dividians as well. I agree they mostly seemed like good people.

Blue Jackets wrote:Source of the post This show is a tough subject. Was the FBI wrong in the way they handled things? Completely, but the show isn't showing Koresh to be the monster he was either.

First, it was the ATF, effing criminals they are... that organization should have been shut down at the end of prohibition. Second, David Koresh wasn't a monster. Was he a religious figure who abused his power, yes... but they never hurt anyone. People were free to leave. The Government made David looks like a whack job to cover up the military action they put forth to destroy this extreme religious community.

Tyler wrote:Source of the post I watched 3 and 4 last night. Shootout was very intense, but after reading a little about it a lot of people say it was more chaotic and longer in real life. The show obviously shows ATF agents shooting the dogs, and then it seemed the agents opened fire on the house first. It's still not clear who shot first.

Still to this day, no one can confirm or deny who shot first. I tend to believe the story from this TV show, that the ATF agents opened fire first. This was a militarized hit on David Koresh that was under the guise of serving a peaceful search warrant for the arrest of David. They had zero proof of the guns, except for the word of a delivery guy about a box of grenades. The raid was rushed and ill conceived, again showing the ignorance of the ATF. Much like the radio host says, this was a military action against a group of citizens, this was not law enforcement.

Tyler wrote:The show really does have me sympathizing for a cult (but don't use that word). It seems like 95% of the people in the compound are good people, they were just brainwashed by a charismatic preacher. David is really coming unhinged though and showing his true colors.

Look, history is written by the victors. Lets be honest, these people did nothing to no one to deserve the action that was taken. ATF did not confirm the possession of weapons, they were going on hearsay. David was a bit radical, he was guilty of polygamy and statitory rape, crimes that do not warrant a full military style raid. IF they truly wanted to stop David, they could have grabbed him peacefully while on his morning jog. I can not condone the actions of David and his religious following, but the group was bothering no one. The locals had zero issues with them. The government wanted a show of force after the debacle at Ruby Ridge.

Yes, that is what David was guilty of... if this was the true reason for the raid, you could have taken him peacefully at any time during his morning runs. Having him in custody for those charges would have given probable cause for a search warrant into the compound. But... he did abuse his power to be able to wed and have sex with underage women. They were peaceful until that fateful day when the government attacked.

purple_hayes wrote:Source of the post if this was the true reason for the raid, you could have taken him peacefully at any time during his morning runs

True, remind me again why they didn't do that? I think in the show they said if they took him during the run it would give the people time at the house to hide the guns they were (legally or illegally?) selling?

purple_hayes wrote:Source of the post if this was the true reason for the raid, you could have taken him peacefully at any time during his morning runs

True, remind me again why they didn't do that? I think in the show they said if they took him during the run it would give the people time at the house to hide the guns they were (legally or illegally?) selling?

yeah, I believe that is what they justified it to be. You could have put David into custody, got the warrant, searched the compound peacefully. It wasn't like David was hiding, and it wasn't like they had the resources of more elaborate extreme religions like Scientology.

I have two more episodes. But from what I remember, Ruby Ridge and the Branch Davidians are examples of what not to do for government agencies.