Maybe, but the point of using TF4 is to keep the process alkaline throughout, to eliminate shifting the pH of the environment back and forth. I'd be interested to see if anyone else has tried what you just thought of...

I can't stand wasting water and if I run the tap for 30 to 60 minutes with warm water mixed in to keep the temp around 20 degress, it uses up all the hot water and other household chores can't be done.

Hmmmm.....I wonder if washing prints is comparable to washing film. Obviously, FB paper is likely to absorb more fixer than film is, which only absorbs it in the emulsion, but might a certain number of water changes suffice for paper? When I wash film I fill, slosh and empty the washer 12 times...period! You can mystify and obfuscate the obvious all you want to, chant secret mantras and dance in a cabalic circle till your feet swell, but the film is completely washed (I have years and years of evidence that this is so)...end of story. Perhaps there's a critical number of exchanges of water that will do the same for paper beyond which one is swatting at shadows, and indulging one's inner anal fussbudget. It would be worth it to save the water albeit it would be much more labor intensive.

Yes, in my prior post I was quoting the manufacturer's suggestions, but I don't use running water in my darkroom. I fill the tray with water at the beginning, agitate for 60s and then right onto the fix for 60s. I dump the water and refill when it starts getting too yellow from the developer carry-over.

I know that Ansel Adams recommended a
process similar to what you are suggesting, ...

Some what similar. He was in the darkroom for about
50 + years. For a time, IIRC, he used a some what acid
stop and 1st fix then held. Prints then went into an alkaline
sodium thiosulfate 2nd fix, Adam's plain fixer, then into a
selenium + KHCA bath. How he processed prior to the
50s and the advent of KHCA and KRST I don't know.

My box of KHCA instructs one to add 71 grams of
Kodalk to each gallon of KHCA. That is to insure the
alkaline condition of the print. Adam's used an ALKALINE
2nd fix and so could get away with a direct transfer to
the KHCA + KRST bath. That bath combination is short
lived. If the two are to be used separately the KRST
can be used many times over. But be sure the print
is in an alkaline condition; KHCA + Kodalk. Dan

Yes, in my prior post I was quoting the manufacturer's suggestions, but I don't use running water in my darkroom. I fill the tray with water at the beginning, agitate for 60s and then right onto the fix for 60s. I dump the water and refill when it starts getting too yellow from the developer carry-over.

I use a 60s water stop in a tray at least one size larger than the print. The water stop is replaced after one 8x10. Prints are fixed in TF-4 and placed in a water hold tray with 4 or 5 dump & fills over 2 hours print session. At the end of the session I selenium tone. Toned prints are rinsed for 5 min before placement into a 10 min HCA bath. Tray wash for 20 min. No stains.

I use ilford rapid fix at 1+9 and fix for 2 minutes, then transfer directly to the hypoclear for 10 minutes, then into water for anywhere from 5 minutes on up, and then directly to the selenium. never had any staining problems and my selenium toner lasts months and months. i think washing your prints to completion before is a bit of a waste of time - after all selenium toner has fixer in it, why wash it all out just to put it back in and have to wash all over again?

i think washing your prints to completion before is a bit of a waste of time - after all selenium toner has fixer in it, why wash it all out just to put it back in and have to wash all over again?

Eegad...you've opened a big-old skanky can-o-worms now

To make TF-3 I order ammonium thiosulfate in a 60% solution and it smells pretty bad, but stock solution Kodak Rapid Selenium Toner (KRST) smells so heinous it'll snap your head back, so I figure it must be richer than 50% ammonium thiosulfate...otherwise known as rapid fix. Gasps of Horror!

jstraw...giving advice on such little information (what paper, what dilution, etc, etc, etc.) the only thing I would suggest is going with a two bath fix.

Check with Photographers Formulary for how many times, and for how many square inches of paper the first fix can be used before it's discarded, and then how many times the second fix can become the first fix before you have to mix up a completely new first and second fix.

If that last paragraph is the least bit confusing, check with the Formulary and all should be explained. (Waaaay too technical for me).

Murray

Last edited by MurrayMinchin; 02-05-2007 at 11:35 PM. Click to view previous post history.
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