Transcript

Labor bloodletting pointless: Carmen Lawrence

PM - Monday, 11 October , 2004 18:26:00

Reporter: Alexandra Kirk

DAVID HARDAKER: Two years ago there was furious debate inside the Labor Party about the need for change.

The former New South Wales premier Neville Wran and former prime minister Bob Hawke recommended a number of changes to the way the party does its business, and at the same time another party elder, the former Hawke minister, John Button, warned that the party had a moribund structure.

So, how deep and how fearless will the recriminations be now over the scale of the party's loss on Saturday?

Alexandra Kirk spoke to ALP President Carmen Lawrence.

CARMEN LAWRENCE: Well I don't think we should foreclose prematurely on an analysis, and one of the things that I'd be urging my colleagues to do is to have a good hard look at the results, exactly where we lost, where we picked up, where we could have done better, and to employ some science in it.

There are some early speculations of course, including the success of the Government's campaign on interest rates. And it would appear that some people were extremely worried about the threats that they managed to put into the public domain, but I don't think the results are as clear cut as that.

ALEXANDRA KIRK: Isn't one of the problems that how does Labor prove that it's economically responsible from the Opposition?

CARMEN LAWRENCE: Well I think one of the problems we had was that, you know, right back in 1996 instead of repudiating the nonsense that was then put out about our economic performance we appeared to succumb to some extent to the propaganda, and we really didn't do very much between then and now.

ALEXANDRA KIRK: You mean the $90 billion black hole?

CARMEN LAWRENCE: Yes, you know, Labor laid the groundwork for some very important economic reform in Australia. So I just think we needed to have done a better job on that, but that's history now. And so we've got to set about the business of ensuring that we are seen as competent, because we are – we run every state and territory government – and that people understand that the risks that they confront are ones that have been largely the result of the policy of the current government – high housing prices, big personal debts and so on.

ALEXANDRA KIRK: Did it take Labor by surprise, the Government's campaign on interest rates?

CARMEN LAWRENCE: It shouldn't have, because they'd been flagging it for quite a long time.

ALEXANDRA KIRK: But it appears to have.

CARMEN LAWRENCE: And maybe that's one of the problems, that we didn't identify that early enough and we didn't anticipate the power of the campaign and the extent to which the Government would use it. Having said that, I mean these are good economic times and people would be looking to protect their position even though many of them are now in extended circumstances where the slightest movement in the cost of living or interest rates makes their lives very difficult.

ALEXANDRA KIRK: Do you think Mark Latham should take a lot of blame?

CARMEN LAWRENCE: No, I don't.

I mean these things are collective decisions, there's no one individual and he wasn't given a very long time in which to pull together a team or to make his mark. I mean, I think we're collectively culpable for letting the Labor ship sort of wallow for too long before we made the leadership move.

ALEXANDRA KIRK: Well in fact you backed Kim Beazley in the last leadership tussle.

CARMEN LAWRENCE: Yes.

ALEXANDRA KIRK: You think he would have done better?

CARMEN LAWRENCE: Look, I have no idea. I think that's useless speculation in a way. One of the things that's clear though, is that we didn't move soon enough to change the leadership.

ALEXANDRA KIRK: And in seeking to highlight what you say is the Labor Premiers' economic success, is there some truth in what Peter Beattie, the Queensland Premier said, and that is that Labor should've played it hard, or hard ball?

CARMEN LAWRENCE: Well we needed to anticipate the issues that were going to be flung in our face, and the scare campaigns that were run, and to have inoculated the electorate against those well ahead of the campaign. I think, you know, you can only run a campaign successfully if it's… the ground is already well prepared, so that's the point I'd make.

And perhaps we have been too polite about some of this, and though I don't like to see negative campaigning becoming the hallmark of Australian politics, as it appears to be in some other places, nonetheless you can't afford to lie down while your opponents ride roughshod.

ALEXANDRA KIRK: And just finally, why shouldn't heads roll?

CARMEN LAWRENCE: Well, what's the point in having blood on the floor? You're better off getting all the people who've been party to this to recognise what's gone wrong, for some of them to step aside in the course of events, but doing so in the interests of the broader party and the community.

ALEXANDRA KIRK: Getting them to understand that they should step aside instead of getting rid of them?

CARMEN LAWRENCE: Well I mean, you've got to have these discussions. First of all do the analysis, then look at the talent that you've got, where you need best to place people. This should be a matter of virtually clinical analysis.

When you're talking about heads rolling; that smacks of retribution and scores being settled. I've never seen anyone recover from a loss if they do that. You've actually got to do it a lot more effectively on the basis of agreement.

DAVID HARDAKER: ALP President Carmen Lawrence speaking to Alexandra Kirk.