Q Mr. President, it's not an easy thing to interview the President of
the most powerful state in the world. However, what is more difficult is
to size down your questions to fit in the minutes.

THE PRESIDENT: Time frame. (Laughter.)

Q Yes. My first question is, people in Egypt, sometimes they get
confused -- on the one hand, they hear the U.S. statements, speeches that
stress on the long-lasting relationships with Egypt, the strategic
importance of Egypt to the U.S. and to the Middle East, Egypt as the major
player in the peace process. On the other hand, they could see indications
that contradicts with this -- U.S. depending on other parties in the
region, your snatching visit to Sharm el Sheikh last January, the partial
cutting of the U.S. aid. How would you comment on that?

THE PRESIDENT: I would comment this, that from my perspective, the
Egyptian-U.S. relationship is a very important part of our Middle Eastern
foreign policy, for these reasons: one, Egypt has got a proud history and
a great tradition, and a lot of people look to Egypt for help.

Now, the United States can't solve a lot of problems on our own; has to
have allies be a part of it. And so on the Palestinian issue, for example,
Egypt can be very constructive, and has been constructive and helpful.
Egypt has got a society that honors diversity and gives people a chance to
realize their talents, like you. You're a very smart, capable,
professional woman who has showed the rest of the Middle East what's
possible in the Middle East. And Egypt has been on the forefront of
modernization. Egypt is strategically located.

And so our relationship is strong and good. We've had our differences, on
elections, for example. But nevertheless, to answer your question, I would
say the relationship is very solid and very important.

Q Then how would you perceive the state of democracy in Egypt?

THE PRESIDENT: I would say fits and starts; good news and bad news. In
other words, there's been some moments where it looked like Egypt was going
to continue to lead the Middle East on the democracy movement, and there's
been some setbacks. But I guess that just reflects the nature of the
administration and their -- on the one hand, their desire for democracy, on
the other hand, their concerns about different movements. My view is, is
that democracy is a powerful engine for reform and change, and leads to
peace.

Q But the public opinion, sometimes they perceive the U.S. criticism to
the development of democracy in Egypt as an unacceptable intervention in
the internal affairs.

THE PRESIDENT: Yes, I can understand that. Look, nobody wants the big
influential guy to come from the outside and tell them what to do. I'm
sensitive to that. On the other hand, I do believe it's important for a
leader in a country to adhere to certain values, universal values. I think
the idea of giving people a chance to vote and a chance to participate
freely in society is a universal value. I try to balance, on the one hand,
my beliefs, and on the other hand, a friendship with the government and
friendship with President Mubarak.

Q It's a matter of hours, and you will be in Tel Aviv, celebrating the
60th anniversary of the establishment of the state of Israel. This
celebration might be perceived by Palestinians and Arabs like -- it is
criticized, because it's ignoring the flip side, which is the 60 years of
agony, pain and struggle in the area, in the region. What would you tell
Palestinians and Arab concerning this?

THE PRESIDENT: Well, I am going to talk to the Palestinians face to face
when I come to Sharm, Sharm el Sheikh. And I will say that there's been 60
years of struggling on both sides, and it's time that the struggle has got
to end. And now is the time for the development of a Palestinian state
that has got defined borders, that doesn't look like Swiss cheese; in other
words, it's contiguous territory, where the refugee issue is dealt with.
And that's what my message is, is that I'm going to -- I fully recognize
the agony and pain that have been lived by everybody in the region, and
that here's one way forward. And it's a -- we will continue to work, and
hopefully by the end of my presidency, we'll get the definition of a
state. And so I'll talk to President Mubarak about how we can work
together.

Q Is this -- some people would consider this as getting the ceiling
lower and lower. Before you said this -- your administration will witness
the condition of the Palestinian state. Now we are talking about only the
definition of the state.

THE PRESIDENT: No, no, it's always been the definition, because I always
said that the state won't come into being until certain obligations are met
through the road map. And so the whole purpose was to define -- it's a
semantical difference, but I really haven't changed my position.

Q Former President Jimmy Carter was in Cairo weeks ago, and he was
really trying to tell how he was seeing things. He said with a simple
comparison between the victims from the Israeli side and the Palestinian
side, you can see who is suffering more.

THE PRESIDENT: Well, everybody has got their opinions. I just happen to
believe that I'm in a position to help move the definition of a state,
which will help solve the problem in the long run. I'm the first President
ever to have articulated a two-state solution, two states living side by
side in peace. And my only thing I want to tell your listeners is that I'm
going to drive hard, along with Secretary Rice and other people in my
administration, to see if we can't get the Palestinians and Israelis to
agree on what that state will look like.

Q Mr. President, do you still believe that who is not with us is against
us?

THE PRESIDENT: Yes, yes. In the war on terror I do. When you kill
innocent people to achieve political objectives, I think they're against
civilized people. We've witnessed this kind of ideological --

Q But minutes ago you said we have differences, we have --

THE PRESIDENT: Of course we have differences --

Q -- it's normal to have differences --

THE PRESIDENT: It is, but killing people to achieve political objectives
-- it's one thing to have differences of opinion, it's another thing to
have differences of action. And my comments about that -- the line you
just quoted was in the context of dealing with these extremists, like al
Qaeda, or Hamas, who just murder innocent people. And, yes, I still feel
very strongly about that. Most people don't believe in using murder as a
political tool. Most people want to live in peace, and so do I.

Q I have only a chance for one question.

THE PRESIDENT: Sure.

Q You will be in the region very soon -- Israel, Saudi Arabia, then
Egypt. The question is, maybe there are 250 million Arabs who think that
President Bush has added to their suffering and problems during his
administration. How would you adjudicate this?

THE PRESIDENT: I would just ask them to wait for history to answer the
question. There's an advent of a young democracy in Iraq. Ask those
people what it's like to live under a freer society, rather than the thumb
of a tyrant or a dictator; or the people that we're trying to help in
Lebanon by getting the Syrians out through a U.N. Security Council
resolution; or the Palestinians who -- for whom I've articulated a state.

In other words, I understand people's opinions. All I ask is that when
history is finally recorded, judge whether or not I've been a contributor
to peace or not.

Q Do you think history will be in your side?

THE PRESIDENT: I think history will say George Bush clearly saw the
threats that keep the Middle East in turmoil, and was willing to do
something about it, was willing to lead, and had this great faith in the
capacity of democracies and great faith in the capacity of people to decide
the fate of their countries; and that the democracy movement gained impetus
and gained movement in the Middle East. Yeah, I think people will say, he
had a difficult set of circumstances to deal with, and he dealt with them,
with a sense of idealism.