kiwi Bruce wrote:I would like to think that a 4% ethanol solution would wipe these out before they had a chance to contaminate a wash.

Arroyo recommends washes not to go over 8%, because:"...and care is observed to assure that an increase of alcoholic concentration above 8 percent is not provoked until the desired bacterial action has occurred."So at least the Clostrodia he wants can stand 8% without problems. And they don't choose a specific Clostridia. The simply dump the dunder in a hole in the backjard.

And for sure they don't pour precious alcohol into their pits.

Don't drink infected dunder. Don't touch it for example with wound hands. Wash your hands after working with it.

I just found this...now it's starting to make a lot of sense...from wiki

Though spores of C. botulinum are heat-resistant, the toxin produced by bacteria growing out of the spores under anaerobic conditions is destroyed by boiling (for example, at internal temperature greater than 85 °C for 5 minutes or longer).

Looking into the other toxins as well...but it would seem... stillin does the killin !

I'm not insane...I just help out at the assilum when they're low on patents.(1958 Goon Show)

Yes. Complicated compounds like bacterial or fungual toxins are mostly solids and have normally a high boiling point, which is a theoretical one, because they are destroyed long before reaching such a temperature.And it's not only the heat, it's also the high alcohol content in the vapor (or -if a few toxin molecules get entrained- in the low wines), which kills them. The alcohol also kills the spores if really some of them would stand the heat.

I went through a list of potentially harmful soil born Bacteria.[*] Most are heat resistant (eg C. botulinum can withstand boiling for over a hour and survive) But their toxins, which are proteins, are heat sensitive and break down within 5 minutes at temperatures of 185f (85c) and above. So it would appear, that as bad as a muck pot/dunder pit or a bacterial fermentation in a distillers beer may appear, for our purposes, it's safe ! So the production of alcohols, carboxylic acids and esterification, can proceed without the fear of producing any harmful elements in our final product. Good news indeed ! [*]* If anyone would like to see the research I'll start a new thread and put it up...however this will take several day as there is a huge amount of data.

I'm not insane...I just help out at the assilum when they're low on patents.(1958 Goon Show)