I just used your question to vent at all the dingalings who keep morphing 1700 players into the caricature of a guy who’s been arrested 12 times, wears a lot of bling, has a history of drug abuse, lives in a strip club, and can’t complete a coherent sentence beyond “Show me the money!”

As far as the players who want to negotiate … people need to recognize that there are 1700 players. In a situation like this, people can’t just jump up and say, “Hey, I’ll do the deal.” That creates chaos. So they choose player reps and hope they’ll represent the best interest of the majority. No, I don’t think the majority fully understand the issues–and that’s not an insult. These are complex legal maneuvers being played out by experienced attorneys in appellate court. Unless they have law degrees or MBAs, I wouldn’t expect them to fully understand the intricate details. Again, that’s why they hire professionals to represent their interests.

No, most players don’t want the NFL’s structure to change. They don’t want to lose the draft. They don’t want open bidding wars. They just want to put this behind them and play ball, knowing they’ll earn a good wage and have a pension and health care when they’re finished. Most players believe the antitrust suits are a way to gain leverage and they need to leave the strategizing to their reps.

What fans need to remember is that several owners actually want those suits to succeed. They want to do away with the draft and kill the current pay structure. Their endgame is demolishing revenue-sharing. It’s all about using this as a way to undermine other owners and the players are just a means to an end. This will end once the owners work it out among themselves. Then, miraculously, they’ll find a way to work it out with the players. But it’s just as foolish to blame the rank-and-file players as it would be to blame any rank-and-file. They’re as much at the mercy of the Power Brokers as fans–and they have a lot more to lose.

]]>By: jftreshj76http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/17/mediation-breaks-until-june/#comment-1070106
Wed, 18 May 2011 16:56:40 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=131232#comment-1070106Boycott. Boycott the first game. Half empty stadiums week 1. AND don’t buy ANY NFL merchandise this year. That’s not so hard! Drive NFL merchandise sales way down. I’m telling you these greedy bastards will take notice. The almighty dollar is all they care about any way.
]]>By: touchdownroddywhitehttp://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/17/mediation-breaks-until-june/#comment-1069945
Wed, 18 May 2011 15:13:20 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=131232#comment-1069945@Deb –

Being willing to practice for free and being open to negotiation are nowhere close to related. The players aren’t practicing for us or the team. They’re practicing for themselves. To earn more money, to earn that next contract and endorsement deal. To keep the back up that is breathing down their neck at bay just a little longer, and to help reduce the risk of injury from getting out of shape once the season finally starts.

I’m not questioning the work ethic of any player. I’m question the committment to a long term deal that doesn’t change the landscape of pro football forever, the way a “win” by the players in litigation can and likely will. You have failed to address the point as raised by myself in relation to the article in an attempt to justify supporting the players.

I’m sure there are players interested in ending this thing. The problem is however that they are either an understated minority or as somebody pointed out above, they are ignorant to the issues and processes taking place and are not making themselves heard.

So which do you think it is? Are there just not enough players who want to negotiate a CBA or are the ones who do want to not important enough/informed enough to be heard?

touchdownroddywhite says:So, will the pro-player commenters please remind me who it is, exactly, that is interested in negotiating?

Deb says:The players? You mean those guys all over the league who are practicing without coaches, without paychecks, without facilities, and without insurance? The ones who are doing it solely for the good of their teams once the season resumes? The ones who, if they are injured, could be out for the season–or for the rest of their lives–without compensation or health coverage? You mean those players?

You want to know about those players, who supposedly are only interested in money and don’t care about the game?

I was answering his question, genius.

The players that are interested in PRACTICING WITHOUT COMPENSATION are the same ones interested in negotiating an agreement. They’re the same ones interested in lifting the lockout and moving on with the season. They’re the same ones who didn’t ask to trash the previous agreement in the first place.

As for the rest of your blathering about underwear … whatever turns you on 🙄

]]>By: rcalihttp://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/17/mediation-breaks-until-june/#comment-1069399
Wed, 18 May 2011 01:56:36 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=131232#comment-1069399Those are some short working hours for a bunch of people that don’t have anything else to do.
]]>By: realitypolicehttp://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/17/mediation-breaks-until-june/#comment-1069330
Wed, 18 May 2011 01:18:59 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=131232#comment-1069330@dkrause71:

So the owners open the books on the team that plays in the smallest home market of any team in all of professional sports.

A team that makes as much revenue from it’s stadium in a season as Jerry Jones does in a single weekend.

And that’s all the proof you need that every team in the league is suffering from poor profitability?

And your accounting is terrible. You don’t measure ROI by measuring profit against franchise value.

Unless someone paid a billion dollars cash this year for the Packers, that 10 million dollar figure is not ROI.

Owners don’t buy teams to rake in that year to year operating profit. They buy it as an investment. The ROI of the Packers is the billion dollars the team is worth now versus whatever the current ownership of the team (I understand the Packers are municipally owned) paid for the franchise initially. Something tells me that is a little more than 1%.

Jeffery Lurie bought the Eagles for $185 million dollars 15 years ago. The team is now worth $1.054 billion. That’s a profit of $870 million dollars, or $58 million per year. That comes out to an ROI of over 500% overall or 32% PER YEAR. Not too shabby.

“Not as profitable as other businesses”. LOL

Gates and the Waltons may not own teams for whatever reason, but Paul Allen owns two professional sports franchises.

No NFL owner has ever lost money. Ever. How many businesses can you say that about?

]]>By: dkrause71http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/17/mediation-breaks-until-june/#comment-1069275
Wed, 18 May 2011 00:33:09 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=131232#comment-1069275The Pro-Owners “arguments” are so ridiculous and laden with racial undertones it’s not even funny. Here’s a summary:

1) NFL Players make enough. I make $5.75 an hour stocking kitty litter. Since I can’t ask my boss for money, neither should players.

2) I can’t think of an intelligent argument against DeSmith so I will call him names (that are lame to boot! get some originality you tards)

3) The NFL negotiates but the players don’t. OK mental midgets. If I keep coming back to you offering to buy your car for $1…that offer does NOT constitute negotiating and does NOT merit a counteroffer.

If you people just said, “Listen, I am a redneck republican and whatever n—gers get, they should be happy with”…we pro-players would actually respect you.
————————————————–

This post is ridiculous. First off, for someone so concerned about race, nice that you separated the players as the black/AA party. Maybe some of us just look at them as employees/players, and not races. As for your comments.

1) One and Three are similar to me as they are financial. My biggest problem with the financials are this. The Packers which are the only team we know the financials on had a 10M profit last financial period. They are worth 1B according to Forbes. This is a 1% return on investment. Assuming this was the 2009-2010 return which they make the playoffs. This is an incredibly horrible return. Its even worse if its the Super Bowl season. You can make more in a CD down at the bank for god sakes.

I read over and over how owners make so much money. 10M is less than some players made for the season even but yet so many of you decided that they are rich so they should just give in. I would also like to add, if being an owner is so profitable, why don’t you see the Gates, Waltons, Soros own teams? That’s right because they are not profitable compared to most businesses.

2) Its just funny you mentioned this when you insult the readers at least twice in your post. I don’t understand why the posters just cannot use his real name, but you did the same thing. Its petty really.

My opinion, is owners shouldn’t have to open their books unless they are claiming losses which i believe is also the labor law. The owners are claiming losses on profit margins which the Packers statements have shown. The Packers profit margins has decreased during the 5 seasons of the former CBA.

So sorry, we are not all racist, republicans. Some of us logically decided we were for the owners.

The players? You mean those guys all over the league who are practicing without coaches, without paychecks, without facilities, and without insurance? The ones who are doing it solely for the good of their teams once the season resumes? The ones who, if they are injured, could be out for the season–or for the rest of their lives–without compensation or health coverage? You mean those players?

——————————————

How does any of that correlate to negotiating a new CBA? Your touching eulogy to the players aside, touchdownroddywhite was commenting on CBA negotiations, not underwear workouts.

I’ll comment on the workouts though, where you see idealism, i see pragmatism. The players know if they don’t perform well they could be cut or it could be used against them in future contract negotiations. If they get a headstart now they could do better next year and maybe get a contract or might secure that roster spot they otherwise might have lost. Do you want to be that guy fighting for a roster spot that knows the playbook on day 1 or do you want to be the guy struggling to catch up?

Imo, it’s a calculated risk by the players. Also, it’s just underwear workouts. I doubt there are players in pads hitting other players or tackling dummies. I could be wrong but if i am you’ll let me know.

The players? You mean those guys all over the league who are practicing without coaches, without paychecks, without facilities, and without insurance? The ones who are doing it solely for the good of their teams once the season resumes? The ones who, if they are injured, could be out for the season–or for the rest of their lives–without compensation or health coverage? You mean those players?

You want to know about those players, who supposedly are only interested in money and don’t care about the game?

I’m not directing this to all pro-owner commenters but some of you would buy urine as cola if a corporate CEO told you it was refreshing and buying it would put a union out of business. And a few would happily pay double if the union leader was black.

]]>By: riverhorseyhttp://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/17/mediation-breaks-until-june/#comment-1069057
Tue, 17 May 2011 22:25:13 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=131232#comment-1069057yeah they have been hitting it really hard they need a 3 week break
]]>By: jakek2http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/17/mediation-breaks-until-june/#comment-1069050
Tue, 17 May 2011 22:20:41 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=131232#comment-1069050jftresh – Nobody will fight back. That is the biggest problem here. The owners and players both know that Americans have no dignity anymore. Read the sellouts’ statements on this site. Many people say they will watch scabs and love it as long as they are wearing that fan’s team uniform. It’s disgusting and it’s one of the big reasons why this country is a laughingstock.
]]>By: nvr4gt12http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/17/mediation-breaks-until-june/#comment-1069046
Tue, 17 May 2011 22:18:33 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=131232#comment-1069046they need to sit their as-es down and get this worked out. all they are doing now each time they sit down when they feel like it and then walk away for weeks at a time is pushing the fans away.

they need to stop crying they all make too much money as it is. take that billion dollars they are arguing over and give it back to the fans and lower ticket prices!!!

]]>By: jftreshj76http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/17/mediation-breaks-until-june/#comment-1069013
Tue, 17 May 2011 22:04:54 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=131232#comment-1069013Boycott. Boycott the first game of the season. Strike back. Tell them “I’ve had enough and I’m not gonna take it any more!” Hit them where you know it’ll get their attention—-their wallets. Greedy bastards. I don’t care how they spin it—-it’s still rich guys versus stinking rich guys. In a country fighting out of a recession, in a country fighting high unemployment these bastards are fighting over $10 billion. It’s indefensible. Hundreds of thousands of Americans depend upon the activity of the NFL for their livelihoods. It has become the true national pass-time. Wouldn’t it be beautiful—- on TV, half empty stadiums game one. Who do they think we are?—soccer fans? Fight back!
]]>By: chatham10http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/17/mediation-breaks-until-june/#comment-1068999
Tue, 17 May 2011 21:57:22 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=131232#comment-1068999How can the NFL sit down with the Union when there is no union?
]]>By: jakek2http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/17/mediation-breaks-until-june/#comment-1068988
Tue, 17 May 2011 21:51:18 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=131232#comment-1068988The Pro-Owners “arguments” are so ridiculous and laden with racial undertones it’s not even funny. Here’s a summary:

1) NFL Players make enough. I make $5.75 an hour stocking kitty litter. Since I can’t ask my boss for money, neither should players.

2) I can’t think of an intelligent argument against DeSmith so I will call him names (that are lame to boot! get some originality you tards)

3) The NFL negotiates but the players don’t. OK mental midgets. If I keep coming back to you offering to buy your car for $1…that offer does NOT constitute negotiating and does NOT merit a counteroffer.

If you people just said, “Listen, I am a redneck republican and whatever n—gers get, they should be happy with”…we pro-players would actually respect you.

]]>By: airraid77http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/17/mediation-breaks-until-june/#comment-1068979
Tue, 17 May 2011 21:45:48 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=131232#comment-1068979The players are going to get hammered, judge will stupidly give the players what they asked for, which is what the owners are wanting back from the players in the new cba, which will also be struck down by the 8th circuit.
The players dont want a new deal, which is why this is in court, not in negotiations. And if the players are stupid enough to follow this plan, they will get nothing, the owners get their 20 pct back, an 18 game schedule(which would be stupid) and the players will fund their own retirments. and the owners will get the lockout insurance money, which means the players will have missed checks, and basically get what the owners want to give, swallow it, and thank the owners.
]]>By: pack93zhttp://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/17/mediation-breaks-until-june/#comment-1068976
Tue, 17 May 2011 21:42:49 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=131232#comment-1068976And there lies that current game.. in the hands of lawyers and the courts.. right where it shouldn’t be at this point if any fan hopes to have any resemblance of a quality season of football.

Another pathetic showing from the players, owners and the man that should be bringing them together in Goodell.

Makes you wonder where the solid businessman of the sport with the vision to understand growth and its value to the pocketbook have gone.

Yes Pathetic that the one man that should have the interest of the fans at heart, Goodell, is in the pocket of only one side in this affair. And it is not for the betterment of the league that is for sure.

]]>By: jbaxthttp://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/17/mediation-breaks-until-june/#comment-1068963
Tue, 17 May 2011 21:33:05 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=131232#comment-1068963I’m down for watching Keauna Reeves and a drunk soccer player play in the NFL for a year. The players can’t make it through the off-season, let alone the real season, without blowing their cash so they’ll be begging to come back before long.

I want the owners to play their bluff because the owners are billionaires with brains, their businesses will suceed with or without the clowns that last 2-4 years on average. Pay rookies and anyone else who wants to sign up and have college like football for a year or 2, we’ll rotate through the greedy effers in that time and we’ll be back to business.

The answer to that questions is the answer to the question of when the CBA will be reached…

]]>By: realitypolicehttp://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/17/mediation-breaks-until-june/#comment-1068943
Tue, 17 May 2011 21:13:10 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=131232#comment-10689432011to2020lions says:
May 17, 2011 3:18 PM
The Players who have a name on this lawsuit can kiss the backside of my tail end.
=========================

Your tail end has a front side?

]]>By: desertpirate1146http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/17/mediation-breaks-until-june/#comment-1068885
Tue, 17 May 2011 20:35:03 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=131232#comment-1068885OK..it’s time for the owners to just give in and give DeDumbo and the players exactly what they are asking for: a non-union, totally free market league.
Imagine, no salary cap, (no salary floor), no minimum salary beyond minimum wage.
By the way, you will be paid twice a month, year around. During the off season, you will be expected to be at the team facilities from 8am to 5pm Monday through Friday. You can have 2 weeks paid vacation once you have been with the company for a year.
There is no company paid retirement plan, but you can enroll in our 401K program.
This will be considered “at will” employment, which means we can fire you anytime we feel like it for no reason at all.
This company also has random drug testing, which you must submit to immediately upon notification. Failure to comply will result in termination.

Other things to consider: How many owners would decide that 53 players is too many? No rules, no set roster sizes.

The league offices would be responsible for scheduling and game rules. The game officials would be employed by the league. Other than that, the league would have no responsibilities.

There is a lot more..like they say..be careful what you wish for.

]]>By: kellyb9http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/17/mediation-breaks-until-june/#comment-1068862
Tue, 17 May 2011 20:24:02 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=131232#comment-1068862Thats good.. they needed a break. /sarcasm
]]>By: mogogo1http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/17/mediation-breaks-until-june/#comment-1068846
Tue, 17 May 2011 20:16:54 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=131232#comment-1068846Why haven’t the players responded? Because tactically it’s smarter for them not to until they’re forced into doing so. The owners have had to establish a ground floor in the negotiations, but both sides see the June court date as their time to seize the upper hand. The players don’t want some counter-offer they made now limiting what they can ask for if they end up in the driver’s seat. And if the court sides with the owners, the players are still confident they won’t do any worse than what the owners have already offered.

And make no mistake…there would have been no second offer from the owners without the court insisting upon it. And this second offer without question looked a whole lot like the original one the players ignored. What I find rather funny is the court insisted the owners make a second offer but didn’t make the players produce a counter-offer. That would seemingly have been the fair thing to do.

]]>By: mred163http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/17/mediation-breaks-until-june/#comment-1068845
Tue, 17 May 2011 20:16:51 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=131232#comment-1068845One thing that seems to be missing is a modification of incomes for the new players drafted. The owners should reduce the absurd guarantees for players who haven’t played a single down in the NFL. Those monies should be spread around to the players who have already proven themselves.
]]>By: evrybdyhas1http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/17/mediation-breaks-until-june/#comment-1068814
Tue, 17 May 2011 20:03:41 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=131232#comment-1068814There is one thing that both sides have in common. They both think we are tools and we will be back to spend our money after they get through fighting how to split it up. We have been spending way too much because the NFL has become part of the American way of life. From the TV spots overseas with our cheering troops to the impact a Superbowl win had for New Orleans we have all thought of football as something bigger then all of us. It isn’t though to the most important people in charge of its legacy, the owners and players. To them it is a just a business and we are just the suckers who will keep paying and putting up with the inflated egos and increase in prices. The primary reason for revenue sharing, salary caps and an anti-trust exemption is competitive balance that will allow the league to flourish and protect its legacy. Greed has blinded players and owners to the big picture and rendered the fan and the game irrelevant.
]]>By: larryfinfanhttp://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/17/mediation-breaks-until-june/#comment-1068808
Tue, 17 May 2011 19:56:07 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=131232#comment-1068808Well, the judicial system is just as asinine as the Players and Owners….4 days of mediation, a one month break, 2 more days of mediation, another month break…Must be nice to expect the fan base to return to the NFL if they ever get it going again….
]]>By: hail2tharedskinshttp://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/17/mediation-breaks-until-june/#comment-1068807
Tue, 17 May 2011 19:55:27 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=131232#comment-1068807jasonfinfan says: May 17, 2011 3:20 PM

The Owners who rebarred their doors can kiss the backside of my tail end. What is wrong with inseason negotiations?

————————————————

What is wrong with in-season negotiations? Well there are two problems. One is the lawsuit by the players that says any rules you put in place we are challenging in anti-trust court! The other problem is that the players decertified the union which puts an end to any collective bargaining (the owners no longer had anybody to negotiate with), so it was the players and not the owners that put an end to ongoing negotiations (but they did that in order to file their lawsuit, you see legally they couldn’t do both)

]]>By: thephantomstrangerhttp://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/17/mediation-breaks-until-june/#comment-1068806
Tue, 17 May 2011 19:54:34 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=131232#comment-1068806I guess I’ll turn my attention to the NBA draft lottery.
]]>By: tmac48http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/17/mediation-breaks-until-june/#comment-1068797
Tue, 17 May 2011 19:47:30 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=131232#comment-1068797Can someone PLEASE explain to me why $9 Billion IS NOT WORTH MEDIATING FOR MORE THAN 2 FREAKING DAYS FOR?!?!?
]]>By: ajcoltshttp://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/17/mediation-breaks-until-june/#comment-1068794
Tue, 17 May 2011 19:46:55 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=131232#comment-1068794If this was any other business I might side with the owners… but a MONKEY can make money with an NFL franchise doing absolutely nothing…

NO ONE IS LOSING MONEY… AT ALL …EVER…

If you think they are then wouldn’t they pretty much jump on the “please open your books” thing? To show everyone..”hey we are suffering!”

The problem is they know if they open their books no one is going to give them any sympathy…

“aww poor mister billionaire owner only made 150 mil this year off his football team… how can he live?”

“Oh and what’s this… his family used the company jet to take 8 trips to Paris?? ”

How much is enough? Really? They want 1 more billion now… but for what? Taxpayers pay for there stadiums for the most part…??

And this in no way compares to anyones elses job so don’t even try…. It’s not apples to apples… This NFL situation is completely unique… So I don’t want to hear “well I can’t ask my boss…blah…blah…blah” … no you can’t … you are not an NFL PLAYER….