Because I've just spent the best part of the past month converting all of Caspian's libraries to C# - these are the desktop versions (I did some Android work earlier on in the year so I could build on the knowledge gained there).

It's currently in testing. I'm aiming for something like the initial title screen late Sunday (although the pre-widescreen version has been converted and is playable). Game saves, 'Steam' stuff and sound still to finish.

So, if you like Puppy Games and have an Xbox, PS Vita or an iOS device keep an eye out for some news probably early next year.

Just for once would people try to actually educate themselves before starting this idiotic "C# is a Java ripoff" meme again? Anders Hejlsberg has a history in creating programming languages that's probably longer than James Gosling's, nor did Sun invent the concept of bytecode. Microsoft is a big company that does a lot of different things, and this constant knee-jerk railing and ranting against everything they've ever touched is infantile, irratating, and just so much noise.

Just for once would people try to actually educate themselves before starting this idiotic "C# is a Java ripoff" meme again? Anders Hejlsberg has a history in creating programming languages that's probably longer than James Gosling's, nor did Sun invent the concept of bytecode. Microsoft is a big company that does a lot of different things, and this constant knee-jerk railing and ranting against everything they've ever touched is infantile, irratating, and just so much noise.

C# is a microsoft language intended to write programs which only run on microsoft system.third party developers have made it possible by then use it in ways it wasn't intended, like Mono, which is great for us.Nevertheless the fact that microsoft has to develop their own standards all the time is quite annoying to me, they will copy whatever they see, and I will not support even one thing. (Everything the made is a blatant copy of already existing stuff, only with the microsoft seal of quality, which is faster release for more money, regardless of stability or completion, see, among others, VISTA, BSODs, RROD etc)Even though they do not get real "support" by me using C#, but its idealism. I will try to use options other than microsoft whenever I can, and I will certainly try to avoid giving them money.

I simply stated "I dont like C#", thats it. I knew it wouldn't end there, because people on the internet have a tendency to question your reasoning and then arguing it.

Just for once would people try to actually educate themselves before starting this idiotic "C# is a Java ripoff" meme again? Anders Hejlsberg has a history in creating programming languages that's probably longer than James Gosling's, nor did Sun invent the concept of bytecode. Microsoft is a big company that does a lot of different things, and this constant knee-jerk railing and ranting against everything they've ever touched is infantile, irratating, and just so much noise.

C# is a microsoft language intended to write programs which only run on microsoft system.third party developers have made it possible by then use it in ways it wasn't intended, like Mono, which is great for us.Nevertheless the fact that microsoft has to develop their own standards all the time is quite annoying to me, they will copy whatever they see, and I will not support even one thing. (Everything the made is a blatant copy of already existing stuff, only with the microsoft seal of quality, which is faster release for more money, regardless of stability or completion, see, among others, VISTA, BSODs, RROD etc)Even though they do not get real "support" by me using C#, but its idealism. I will try to use options other than microsoft whenever I can, and I will certainly try to avoid giving them money.

I simply stated "I dont like C#", thats it. I knew it wouldn't end there, because people on the internet have a tendency to question your reasoning and then arguing it.

So you must use Linux? No wait that's direct ripoff of Unix. Mac then? No they first copy everyone else then sue people who copy them. I guess you must use a home grown OS, else that would make you a hypocrite. The world has always worked by people seeing something and saying I can make that better. So whining about who stole what from whom is totally counter productive and wasteful. That's why billions of dollars are wasted in patent and copyright cases instead of people just trying to do some work.

It's all a bit fiddly but Paul's been making great progress converting our framework into C#. Crappy performance problems on the 360 are a bit of a hindrance (hopeless VM - they really missed a trick there).

Plan is to get our games on 360 and Playstation, but Titan Attacks is already being ported into Monkey by another friend of ours to get it on to iOS.

Still utterly shameful that we even have to do any of this but there we have the final results of 10 years of mismanagement of the Java client.

Shame on everyone else against my opinion, because if i said so, it's right.

I'm actually curious, even though we had Visual Studio vs Eclipse threads before.I dont think I know many people who are experienced in both Eclipse ans Visual Studio.But many Eclipse lovers haaate Visual Studio but I mett more and more people who absolutely love VS.I never used it long enough to make suffidient judgement - all I saw was: It's giant like 8GB and compiling takes looong (but I was writing C++, so native compiling)

Well i never got really deep into Visual C#, but the lack of auto-indenting and other little things made me cry. Especially on the C# classes, i was like "LET ME USE SOMETHING ELSE PLEEEEEASEEEEE"It's a matter of taste, actually; Some people hate Eclipse for being slow and bloated.

I'm actually curious, even though we had Visual Studio vs Eclipse threads before.I dont think I know many people who are experienced in both Eclipse ans Visual Studio.

It's really hard to compare Eclipse and VS, primarily because the experience using them is vastly different depending on what language you're using. 'Eclipse' usually just means Eclipse for java dev, which is pretty damn slick. Eclipse for C++ is a whole other beast.

Similarly for VS. The VS C++ debugger is great, but the VS C++ code editor is abysmal. It's clunky to navigate, it's code completion and syntax highlighting is often flat out wrong, and it has an annoying tenancy to lock up the whole app when it scans the code. Everyone ends up resorting to something like Visual Assist to make it usable. VS C# on the other hand is a completely different beast - the editor is much more functional, but the debugger is IMHO worse (and worse than Eclipse's Java debugger).

Of course like most MS tools it also really depends on what the rest of your environment looks like. VS is great if you're living and breathing the MS stack all day, but will kick and fight if you ever try and use it in a different way or with different tools. Eclipse, Netbeans, etc. are much more comfortable in letting you integrate different tools and plugins. So even comparing the two versions with relevant languages, your experience varies hugely depending on what other stuff you're doing.

It's all a bit fiddly but Paul's been making great progress converting our framework into C#. Crappy performance problems on the 360 are a bit of a hindrance (hopeless VM - they really missed a trick there).

Plan is to get our games on 360 and Playstation, but Titan Attacks is already being ported into Monkey by another friend of ours to get it on to iOS.

Still utterly shameful that we even have to do any of this but there we have the final results of 10 years of mismanagement of the Java client.

Cas

Alright, but now I have a really serious question for you.

When you create a new game - will it be Java or will it be directly done in the other languages to get your broader platform support without having to do porting work first? Seems to me that continuing to use Java for PC stuff at this point in time will just be extra maintenance that is not necessary :/

It will be Java, because that's what I'm good at and it gives me all 3 platforms that make me enough money to live on (Win, Mac, Lin). I'm totally disinterested in console development because of the daft hoops you need to jump through not to mention the incredible expense. And designing a game that works on touch platforms that is also going to work on the desktop is just laughable.

I think one way to approach mobile for someone like PuppyGames would be to create companion apps/games for your desktop games. I'm not sure how exactly that would fit into your current line-up, but i've seen a few big fish doing that recently. If your games had some kind of persistent state to them, say inventory, an avatar, etc., a companion app could offer you managment facilities for that. Alternatively, if your main game has some kind of in-app currency, you could have a small mini-game mobile app that allows you to earn a bit of that on the go. When you return to your game on the desktop, your freshly earned currency is ready to be spent (or you do it in the mobile app ).

Yeah, we've genuinely looked into ideas along those lines. But of course then we're basically writing completely different software for phones so my general premise still stands - you don't write desktop games and port them to touch - if you've managed to port it then you've probably got a game that simply won't sell on the other platform type.

<further qualification> The only game we've got that will work, even vaguely, on a phone is Titan Attacks. For bonus points someone can try and say why the other games won't work.

I'm not very sure that tablets are a different story really. The problem is fourfold: touch, form factor, performance, and expectations/situation. Touch is the same problem on both phones and tablets - it's surprisingly different from mouse and of course totally different to a game that uses keys as well to good effect. Form factor again radically changes the nature of a touch interface. Then there's the crappy (relative) performance of these devices and finally there's the situation and expectations that users have when using the device. Mostly it seems that people gaming on touch devices are extremely casual. Getting their attention for any length of time is hard.

C# bindings for the OpenGL API are really slower than JOGL 2.0 and LWJGL, Microsoft .NET itself has never been faster than Java, that's why Quake .NET is 15% slower than the original version whereas Jake 2 is faster. I understand that some people need to use C# on some platforms that doesn't support Java yet but C# is not Java, OpenJDK is extremely close to Oracle Java and anyway Normen has tried to make JMonkeyEngine 3.0 work on iOS with AvianVM and JOGL Java can go everywhere with some small efforts.

So whining about who stole what from whom is totally counter productive and wasteful. That's why billions of dollars are wasted in patent and copyright cases instead of people just trying to do some work.

Ok but there is a difference between whining about who stole what from whom and just asking people to respect the right of paternity.

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