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Carpentry skills served local Navy vet in war and peacetime

By Joe Todd

Historian

(Editor’s note: The following interview with Albert Moseley Birmingham was recorded in Bartlesville on July 22, 2011. Birmingham, who lived in Afton at the time, was a former resident of Bartlesville. Historian Joe Todd conducted the interview as part of a World War II project for the Eisenhower Library in Abilene, Kan.)

Todd: Sir, where were you born?

Birmingham: I was born in Okolona, Miss., on Sept. 20, 1926.

T: Who was your father and mother?

B: Eugene Ray Birmingham and Anna Moseley Birmingham.

T: Where did you start to school?

B: I was 6 years old and started to school in 1931.

T: You graduated in what year?

B: I didn’t graduate. I only went through seventh grade. I was held back a couple of years because of the living conditions. We lived way out in the country and I went to school in town.

T: What type of work did your father do?

B: He was a carpenter — and, that is what I did.

T: You said you lived in the country. Were you on a farm?

B: Yes. We had 40 acres.

T: What crops did you raise?

B: We raised potatoes and corn as the big crops. And, we raised a lot of vegetables.

T: What chores did you do on the farm?

B: I had three brothers and we fed the hogs and milked the cows. We worked in the garden and we plowed and planted corn and potatoes. Dad raised a lot of sweet potatoes. We raised 500 bushel of potatoes every year and put them in a drying house. If we couldn’t sell them, we traded them for sorghum molasses or black-eyed peas or anything, back in those days.

T: What time would you get up on the farm?

B: We would have to get up at 5 or 6 in order to catch the school bus. We lived six or seven miles out of town. By the time you did your chores, got ready to go to school and had breakfast, it was time to go.

T: Did you plow with horses or mules?

B: We plowed with mules. It was about a 12-inch plow.

T: How much could you plow in one day?

B: You could plow a couple of acres. We were small then. When Dad wanted us to plow some new ground, my brother and I would plow together. Dad told us: “Whatever you do, don’t stand between the handles of the plow. Because, when you hit a stump, it will knock the plow handles over and hit you in the ribs.” That would have stopped us from plowing for a few days. One of us would guide the mules and the other one would hold the plow.

T: In your schooling who was your favorite teacher?

B: My favorite was the sixth grade teacher. She would work with you. She wouldn’t give you a bad grade, she would try to help you to get everything right.

T: What was her name?

B: Miss Bledsoe. She married a hometown man who built a theater there.

T: How did the Depression affect you and your family?

B: That would be a long story. Before the Depression hit, my grandfather moved to West Texas. When the Depression hit, he wrote dad and told him to bring his family out — because things were real good, the crops were good. And we did. That is when the bottom fell out of everything. We liked to have starved to death until we could get enough money to get back to Mississippi.

T: How did you travel to West Texas?

B: Daddy had an old Durant car and a four-wheel trailer. We put everything in that trailer. We would stop on the side of the road and mother would take the pots and pans out so we could build a fire and cook. We stayed out there about two years. My dad did carpenter work and he worked for this man that had a grocery store. He worked and got about $150. He owed the man a little money, but that man was good enough to give dad the whole $150 so we could come back to Mississippi.

T: Did you come back in that same Durant car?

B: In that same Durant car. It burned so much oil that we would stop at a gas station and get a five-gallon can of oil.

T: What was your grandfather’s name and where did he live in West Texas??

B: Albert Sidney Birmingham. He was in a little place called Ward, about 15 miles from old Mexico. He finally came back to Mississippi and I think he was glad as we were to get back.

T: Were there any CCC camps in that part of Mississippi?

B: Yes, there were. They would work on the roads part of the time, then they would train them. I had twin cousins that joined the CCCs until they got drafted when the war started.

T: Did your father do any work for the WPA?

B: He sure did.

T: What did he do?

B: He was a carpenter. They built a band building where they taught children and a cafeteria where they fed children that couldn’t afford to eat. He was a supervisor.

T: Were you aware of the rise of Hitler in Germany?

B: I was in the second grade when it first started. I remember being told Hitler was building tunnels to store stuff. Of course, we didn’t know there was going to be a war.

T: What did you think when he invaded Poland in 1939?

B: I don’t know what to say about him, I just know he was a cruel man. He killed all those people.

T: What about the war in China?

B: It seemed people couldn’t agree on anything. It seems they all wanted for themselves. Whenever I was overseas in Guam, I worked with Japanese every day for 35 days — they are smart people.

T: Did you think we would become involved in the war in China or Europe?

B: I really didn’t think we would. I thought the American people would be able settle things before we got in a war.

T: Where were you Dec. 7, 1941?

B: I was in Okolona. We had moved from the country to town and my dad had just started working in the shipyards in Mobile, Ala. He continued working in the shipyards all during the war. I remember when Roosevelt came on the radio and declared war.

T: After the war started, did you help with the scrap metal drives or rubber drives?

B: Yes, we did everything.

T: What type of scrap metal would you collect?

B: Most of it was just old iron from the farms.

T: Where would you take it?

B: There was a junk place in Okolona and then it was shipped out.

T: Do you know where it was shipped?

B: I think most of ours went to Alabama.

T: Did you collect anything besides scrap metal?

B: There was very little aluminum. We did collect some old tires and tubes. And, there was some copper.

T: How did rationing affect you?

B: I was affected by it because the first thing rationed was groceries. Lard and gasoline. We moved back to the farm after the war started. There was very little gas to get to and from.

T: You said your father worked at the shipyards. How far was it to the shipyards?

B: About 185 miles.

T: How did you get to the shipyards?

B: He had an old car that he drove and took five or six guys. They would go down and stay two or three weeks and come back on the weekend when they had time off. Dad worked in what they called the Alabama Dry Docks. He was putting shelves and bunks in the troop transport ships they were building.

T: Were you able to follow the progress of the war?

B: Some of it, yes.

T: The Philippines fell and we were not doing too well. What did you think of this?

B: You look back and the Japanese had a pretty good start on us there. But you knew, deep down, we were not going to give up. And, I always figured we were going to come out on top.

T: When did you join the Navy?

B: I joined on July 18, 1944.

T: Why did you join the Navy instead of the Army or the Marines?

B: I guess because the six guys I went in with wanted to join the Navy. They wanted on a ship, but we didn’t know what we would get.

T: Where did you go for your boot camp?

B: Camp Perry, at Williamsburg, Va.

T: How did you travel to Camp Perry?

B: We went to Jackson, Miss., for our exam, then rode to Richmond, Va. on a train. It wasn’t a troop train.

T: How long did the trip take?

B: About five days.

T: Where did you sleep on the train?

B: The seats made into a bed.

T: How were the meals on the train?

B: The meals were good. They had cooks on the train. It was a lot different than that train I rode from Virginia to California.

T: When the train stopped, were you allowed to get off?

B: Yes, we were.

T: In the towns, what was the reaction of the local people to you?

B: We really didn’t see a lot of people, but we were treated nice. The people on the train were friendly. There were some WAVES and WACS on the train. They knew we were going into the service.

T: Did you request the Seabees?

B: No. They wanted 500 replacements and I was in the group where they took the first 500 men.

T: Tell me about boot camp.

B: I’ll tell you one thing, it was strict. We had a good instructor. He was a Norwegian guy, a Petty Officer First Class. I can’t remember his name. Everything we did had to be done right or we did it over two or three times. We got set back two weeks because some of the boys didn’t want to do something the rest of the boys did. Getting set back brought them out of it. We all graduated with good colors.

T: What was your average day in boot camp?

B: We got up at around 5, then would go out and have calisthenics and then come back in and smoke — we had a smoking period. We would then get ready and go have chow. Then we went out and started our routine: marching. We did more marching than anything, when we started. We then did everything. After we got through boot camp,we started our combat training.

T: How did the combat training compare with the boot camp?

B: It was more things. You had to pay attention, too. One of the things I remember real well was the gas chamber, going in and taking your mask off and putting it back on. We trained on how to fight the enemy, how to use your bayonet — how to get them before they got you.

T: What rifle did you have?

B: Carbine. We headed over with the 03 (M1903 Springfield), but we were issued carbines before we got over. They took us to Hawaii on a ship and we joined up with 22 other cargo ships.

T: How long did boot camp last?

B: Sixteen weeks.

T: What is your most vivid memory of boot camp?

B: The gas chamber. And, I’ll tell you why. They told us when we got in, they would tell us when to take our gas mask off. He said: “If anybody says anything to anybody, he is going to stand here until everybody leaves.” This old boy in front of me stood there and you had to call out your name, rank and serial number. He didn’t say anything, so I poked him and said, “Hey.” They pulled me aside and I stood there until they all filed out, without my gas mask. Then, you blow your mask out and put it back on. I remember that more than anything. You learned to keep your mouth shut.

T: From Camp Perry, where did you go?

B: We went to Camp Parks at Shoemaker, Calif.

T: How did you travel to Camp Parks?

B: On a troop train.

T: Tell me about the trip.

B: It was in December 1944. Two big black steam engines pulled 17 cars, and we slept in our seats. When I pulled KP, we were going through the mountains of Colorado. I remember that because you had to clean out cook car and open the door, and that snow would be coming in.

T: How did you pull KP on the train?

B: We peeled potatoes and peeled onions, just whatever had to be done. We had big vats for washing the dishes.

T: Was there a mess car?

B: There was a mess car and a cook car. It wasn’t all that bad, you just didn’t get to take a

bath every day.

T: What is your most vivid memory of that troop train?

B: That kitchen car sweeping the snow out.

T: When the train stopped, were you allowed to get off?

B: We stopped at Denver, got off and did calisthenics.

T: Did you have any contact with the local people when you got off?

B: No, we weren’t allowed too. Someone might try to run off or something.

T: How long did that trip take?

B: Almost two weeks. We went by a northern route and the train stopped a lot to get coal and water.

T: How many times did you pull KP on the trip?

B: Just one time.

T: What did you do at Camp Parks?

B: We got to Camp Parks and I went into the 24th Battalion. That was the unit that had just come back from Guadalcanal, and had lost so many men. They had been on Guadalcanal for 22 months. I went to Camouflage School.

T: What is Camouflage School?

B: You learned how to camouflage vehicles. Then we had work details and we painting buildings. After we finished that, we went overseas. I thought I was going with the 24th Battalion overseas, but they transferred me into the 11th.

T: From what port did you leave the states?

B: We left from San Francisco.

T: Do you recall the ship you were on?

B: It was an old Dutch troop transport but I can’t remember the name of the ship?

T: Did it have a Dutch crew?

B: It had a Dutch crew, an Army captain and a Navy gun crew. When we left San Francisco, we went to Pearl Harbor.

T: Do you recall the date you left?

B: It was about the 15th of April, 1945.

T: What were you thinking as you were heading out?

B: We didn’t know where we were going, but we knew we had to go to war.

T: What were you thinking going under the Golden Gate Bridge?

B: It was something to see. We all threw a coin off.

T: What were you told to do in case the ship was torpedoed and sinking?

B: When we got on the ship, they gave us a life jacket to sleep with and eat with and never take off. We were told what to do.

T: How many men on the ship?

B: There were 1,000 Seabees, some Army personal and a crew of about 35.

T: Were there enough lifeboats for everyone?

B: I don’t think there were. I counted about 6 good-sized lifeboats, hanging over the side.

T: How long did it take to get to Hawaii?

B: It was only five days.

T: How did you pass the time on the trip?

B: We were allowed to play cards and do what we wanted, but we didn’t have any work to do. We pulled into Pearl Harbor about 7 in the evening and a Jap got on our tail and everything was shut off. The lights went out and everything. I was in the galley and it was quiet. They came on board and told us what had happened. A ship came out and escorted us in. We left the next morning at 4. We went up on top side and there were ships everywhere. There were 22 ships in the convoy with five escort ships. There was one in the front, one in the back and one on each side. And, one circled the convoy. Before we got to the Philippines, our ship broke down and we went to the island of Samar and we were there 21 days. We almost went nuts on that ship, they wouldn’t let us off.

T: Where were your quarters on the ship?

B: We slept in the hold.

T: How far down?

B: About two decks down, almost on the bottom. It was just cot after cot after cot. I kept my life jacket on and made sure the battery was working. There was a little red light that had a battery.

T: When you pulled into Pearl Harbor, did you see the Arizona?

B: No, it was dark when we pulled in and it was dark when we left.

T: What did you do in the Philippines?

B: I was in the cabinet shop. When we went in, they took us off the ship and put us on barges and took us in as close as they could ans dumped us out in about three feet of water. We had a seabag, bedroll and a gun. We waded in and the Army folks were set up on the beach. Trucks came along and threw out tents about 20 feet apart and we set the tents up. We were there for about six months, living in those tents.

T: Where were you?

B: We were at Subic Bay on Luzon.

T: Had the Philippines been secured?

B: No. First job I had was running a cement mixer on the Bataan River. There were mixers set up on the river, with a drag line that pulled sand and rock out of the river to be loaded the in the hopper on the mixer. We mixed the cement and the trucks would back up and fill up. They didn’t have mixers like they do now, we just had open trucks. There was a little chute on the back of the truck. We mixed it real thin and they could carry it 30 or 40 miles before it started to set up. We were building airstrips. I did that for about a month and a half. We had a tent set up that had carpenter tools and we built anything out of wood. We built a camp up in the mountains. We built a walk between the tents because it was in the rice fields and the mud was deep.

T: Since the Philippines had not been secured, did you have any trouble with the Japanese?

B: We had some that tried to come into the camp, but I think they were just as scared as we were.

T: Why were the Seabees organized?

B: Construction battalion. It was a stevedore outfit.

T: What did you do besides mixing cement?

B: We built bunks and tool boxes, mostly. We had to build bunks for 1,000 men.

T: Did you have any contact with the local people in the Philippines?

B: Yes. We got along with the people. The women would come in and wash your clothes, and we paid them. We had an outdoor theater and they would come in and watch the movie every night. Then, I worked on putting up big buildings and Quonset huts. There was a lieutenant that was over building a chapel on The Big Hill on Guam. I had enough experience, by working with my dad, that I knew a little about blue prints. And that lieutenant didn’t know anything. He asked me how much I knew about blue prints and I told him I thought I could read them. He told I could help him and he would help me. He didn’t know anything about reading blue prints. I had 35 Japanese every day for two months. I had one that was an architect and we got to where we could understand each other a little. What I didn’t know about blue prints, he did know, and we got that chapel built.

T: What was the attitude of the prisoners?

B: Most of them were good, they did what you told them to do. I had a few that were sour on the world and said they were making it fine and had to fight. I said we went to war to fight, and didn’t try to get out of it.

T: Was the war still going on at that time?

B: No, the war was over.

T: Where were you on V-J Day?

B: I was in the Philippines.

T: Why were you sent to Guam?

B: We finished with what we were scheduled to do in the Philippines and they sent us to Guam to help out there.

T: How long were you in Guam?

B: I was in Guam from December — just a few days before Christmas — until about the 15th of February. I had enough points to get out. I was married and they allowed 10 points for being married. I was sent to an OGU (Out Going Unit) and waited for a ship to come home. That is the time when all the ships were on strike. I had to wait 21 days before we could get a ship to come home. We almost went crazy. We didn’t have any money. We just begged, borrowed and did whatever we could do.

T: What did you do that Christmas in the Philippines?

B: They put us over in an old Marine camp. The Marines had all gone home. We didn’t have any cooks and they sent a bunch of Navy personnel from the states who couldn’t boil water. We finally got some of the best cooks you ever saw. Anyone who came through the Philippines was invited to eat with us — Army, Navy or Marines.

T: Did any USO shows come through?

B: I got to see one, Bob Hope. He was quite a guy.

T: When did you come home?

B: March 23 is when I got into San Francisco, at Treasure Island. We had overnight liberty when we were being discharged.

T: Tell me about coming home.

B: From Guam, we came to Pearl Harbor. We were on an old luxury liner and it was nice compared to what we had been on. At Pearl Harbor, all the guys going to California got another ship and we hit a storm. It took us five days to get home. We were up in the front of the ship and the waves were 12 feet high. They would bounce you out of the bunk.

T: Did you get seasick?

B: I never did, but a friend of mine did. His bunk was where you went in to the galley and that made him sick. I brought him bread and butter every meal. That is all he could keep down. When we got home, the wife and I stayed in California about four weeks. One day, there was a knock on the door and it was him and his mother. He lived in Northern California and had brought me a basket of vegetables. I don’t remember what all was in that basket. He said, “Boy, I’ll never forget you. You saved my life!” That was real nice of him, but I have never heard from him since.

T: What did you think when you saw the Golden Gate Bridge?

B: That it was the prettiest thing I ever saw in my life. It looked a lot prettier than it did going out.

T: When did you get your discharge?

B: March 26, 1946.

T: What did you do after the war?

B: I went back to Mississippi and lived about six months. My wife wanted to come back to California where her folks lived. Her folks lived about 50 miles out of Barstow. Her father worked in the West End Chemical Plant and I got a job there. I worked there two years until we decided to come to Oklahoma, in 1948.

T: Where did you meet your wife?

B: In Oakland.

T: When did you meet her?

B: I met her in the last of November 1944. We were married in March 1945. We knew each other 45 days when we were married. She is gone now.

T: Why did you come to Oklahoma?

B: We lived in Trona, Calif., and we came to Bartlesville. This was her home town.

T: What was her maiden name?

B: Seybert. Her father was Jim and her mother was Neva Seybert. His father was Al Seybert, an old bridge contractor. He’d had three sons and they all worked with him in the bridge-building business.

T: Were you a carpenter in Bartlesville?

B: I was, but I’m retired now. I worked until I was 75 years old. I had a partner and we remodeled houses around here. I helped build the first frame house in Pennington Hills.

T: Who was Pennington?

B: He was out of Oklahoma City and he was a builder down there. He had a man that worked for him named Fleetwood. You seldom saw Pennington, but Fleetwood was well known around Bartlesville.

T: We lived on Nebraska Street and I was going to Highland Park School when they announced Pennington Hills. That was about the time the Carpenters Union gave us a lot of trouble — because we were not union. They were trying to get the union built up around here and he wouldn’t go union.

T: When did you move to Afton?

B: We had a place at Grand Lake. I had it when I got married to my present wife. But I had so many memories there, I didn’t want to keep it. Before I sold it, my wife had bought some lots and we went back there in 2003.

T: What is your most vivid memory of your Navy career?

B: When I got discharged to come home. Like the old boy said: I wouldn’t take a million dollars for what I did, but I wouldn’t give 15 cents do it again. I didn’t have any problems. The first week when I left home, I missed my mother’s cooking. And, I missed the bed I slept in. Before we signed, the old boy said: “If any of you don’t want to go, step out of line right now, or I don’t want to hear anything else.”

T: I’d like to do a word association. I’ll give you some words and you give me your reaction.

B: OK.

T: The first one is Adolf Hitler.

B: I have no use for the man.

T: Tojo.

B: I didn’t care for him, either.

T: Boot camp.

B: It wasn’t all that bad. It made you learn to respect everything in life that you had been used too.

T: Seabees.

B: I like the Seabees. It was a good outfit. I will say, we had good food. But, they worked us hard.

T: Troop train.

B: Well, they are not too bad. They’re better than walking.

T: Troop ship.

B: It wasn’t all that bad.

T: Golden Gate Bridge.

B: It was pretty sight going out, but a lot prettier sight to come back under.

T: Philippines.

B: The only thing I didn’t liked about the Philippines was the rain. It rained every day. It was tropical, but you got used to it. And, the mosquitoes. I learned to like the people over there, they were good to us.

T: Guam.

B: Guam is a nice place. The people lived in different parts of the island and you could get a pass to go visit them.

T: Franklin Roosevelt.

B: I liked him. I think he was a good president.

T: Harry Truman.

B: I thought old Harry did pretty good. He knew what was going on when Roosevelt passed away.

T: Douglas Macarthur.

B: He was a hard old boy.

T: World War II.

B: It was a war that we had to do something about. They tried to destroy our Navy and we had to stop them.

T: How do you want to be remembered?

B: I have always tried to be good to everybody and I’ve tried to do my part. My wife says I talk too much, and never meet a stranger.

T: Anything else?

B: Not about the war but I could tell you a lot about Bartlesville.

T: Tell me about Bartlesville.

B: I helped build the water line from Bartlesville to Hudson Lake. When I first came to Bartlesville, everybody had a cistern and Dewey got its water out of the Caney River. So, they decided to build Hudson Lake. My wife’s uncle had Osage Construction and they did a lot of work on the water line. They had two crews, one that went from the water tower in Bartlesville out to Virginia, then another crew that took it on to the lake up through H. R. Straight’s place. I did a little bit of everything. I was a powder monkey and have shot a lot of dynamite. I wound up as a straw boss and had an easy job telling the men what to do and keeping up with the time. I kept up with the drag lines. It is a gravity flow line to Bartlesville. When we went across Buck Creek, we had to go under the water. A crane fell in the creek, but nobody got hurt. On the straight away, we laid more two-foot concrete pipe than had ever been laid before in one day. Before we got to the dam, we had to go down four feet and we hit limestone rock. The dam was already finished. We had to tie into the main line by going into the dam, which had a valve there. My father-in-law worked there, also. He knew how to pour lead and had a lead joint. When we tied into the joint, the valve was turned off, but it still had a little water trickling through it. You can’t pour lead into water so he told me to build a little dam to stop the water. The pipe was then shoved in and he poured in the lead. There was a little mud in the pipe from the dam and I asked him about that. He said it would wash out when they open that valve. I learned a lot. Jay Roberson is the only guy still alive, besides me, who worked on that — the rest of them are all gone. Later, they laid a three-foot pipe next to the two-foot pipe. That is when my father-in-law was killed on Virginia Road. That was in 1951, I think. They had a deep cut and he was tying the pipe together when the ditch collapsed and killed him.

T: Sir, this is an excellent interview.

B: Thank you, sir. I’ve enjoyed talking to you.

T: I want to thank you for your service and thank you for the interview.