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SAMUEL PROCTOR ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM at
the University of Florida

AL 40A

Subject: Rev. T.B. McPhearson

Interviewer: Leigh E. Payne

4/10/73

sj

P: I'm Leigh Payne, and I'll be talking with Reverend T.B. McPhearson
remrnevibr& i'r
on Gainesville in the twenties, as he d4itji. Today is April
10
f~gep, '73, and it's about 6:30.
(Break in tape)

....Gainesville, Mr. McPhearson?

M: All of my life I've stayed here through my high school and

after then I had the privilege to go to college. I haven't had

a very interesting elementary and high school life here in
wel I
Gainesville. I can remember very 4'k some of the things as you

talk about it. What Main Street used to be the center of town,

and the Atlantic Coastline Depot was where the First National

Bank is now. And the train would come to the Atlantic CoastIine

Depot, where the bank is now, and right down where you find the

old Star Garage (?) was a hotel. It would come by them and go

down and get their lunch, back the train back up to the station.

And then would stay there for a while, this was dinnertime. Then

I had the unusual privilege when I was a little boy. I stayed

on the University, almost on the University of Florida campus, all
-c
ki my high school days9 where the student dropped a set of years

at now, I lived with the family that wasAthe Garrs, the E.T. Garrs,

they were very liberal, and they were interested in me getting a

good education. They knew my mother, who was a very hard worker,

and they did everything they could to see that I would get a good

education, and I was kind of proud of it. And I can tell you

AL 40A

sj

about University Avenue. University Avenue, I can remember

University Avenue when there wasn't a University Avenue, they

called it the Rock Road. And on it, we can stop to looking after

some of the things that you saw right now where the railroad is

now, and on that corner where you have the-shopping center, there

was a laundry there. They called that the Old Gainesville Laundry,

run by E. P. Bevel. And then as you moved uptown
eL rc P CC^ se-)+C I've)
my mother worked for eth re4-ie, Frank Clark, she had the

privilege of raising a Mrs. Lillian Clark, which now lives in

this town and is married to a businessman. The urTon Bank was
TJC. Perne*k
right across the street, right where ?/ .itdnteth store was,
that was downtown, and across from the 3~uf-om Bank, where the

Florida National Bank is now, that, at that time, was the

Presbyterian Church, and it had a little bank a little bit further

around the corner, the F r~oje State Bank, I can remember

when I lost three dollars in the Wvi-le State Bank 'cause my

parents had started IP learning to save at that particular time.

Now, may I tell you, some of the other things that you wanted to

know about athletics.

P: That would be very good.

M: And, the veryAdays, I apzbd remember in the very early twenties,

that W we had a good team at GHS. It wasn't called GHS at that

time, and one of the Gainesville schoolls, where Kirby-Smith

School is now, that was the first high school football field that

we had in town. I remember Lincoln played a team, Lincoln used
WCe
to play university, A played a team on Atlanta on that field.

However, I can remember those teams that had some of the fellows)

AL 40A 3

sj

M: Gcor pe nlar f1rco was the quarterback on one of those teams, very close
ieh to me now, but at that time, my mother used to do a little work

for them on the weekends, his father was the/vice-president of the

University of Florida, and I knew a lot of them, and I met him

quite a bit at this particular time, but he was one of the players

on that team. I can remember the great quarterback Edgar Jones

played on that team, and I remember another young fellow named

Va had a reJi ball club, that was one of the great

teams/up until this year, that GHS has had. Uh, rhCY1 iO-er

the years, I hung around Gainesville enough to know your coach.

My is a little boy, believe it or not, I can remember
Ilack^ k-, o-
when we built Citizen's Field. WY wanted the wh-i4-es to he. a

\o 6ou-sqe. _Coach 1',1i ',:;1 come many miles on a couple of
'.rirYm,.' :, .p and I feel pretty proud t 6dJ-

,( Y., \;- 3-bKt I love Gainesville, I might as well aPy e, and I
ilr ~~zr~7-:v72

AL 40A 5

sj

want to say this so that everybody hear me say, I love people, and

I would like to see our city continue to grow in the right type of

spirit where people will love people, and I say this to boys, whether

theyiwhite, whether theyiblack. The only success, true success

that we can is to love people.

P: Makes a lot of sense.

M: And if you, you see a whole lot of the things that happened back

in the early days, you didn't have as much education, neither

white nor black, we didn't have too much experiences, and maybe

nowhere in the United States that I, I like to look after

because there have been some other great people who have made

contributions. We lost a good friend, and I like to tell this

one, somebody, nobody knows that I was one of the.4gJakk ba-kaO -

for black people getting a chance to go to Sunland Training Center.

I.t-was made possible by Senator Shands, who lives now,Athis is in

the early twenties, too. I, uh, Senator Shands, and out of that

came -eawue ReveecnA .Gordon and I served at that time on

a committee who was interested in advancing the disadvantaged

people, and let me tell you, it was a pleasure working with those

people. ,/ver the the years, people like ReI ,hd Gordon, people

like Dr. Lewis from the University of Florida. peoplee like

Fvxtmn Springfield. I worked very hard, not so much to advance

reason, but to advance people, advanceAlove for one another, and

fairness for people. And this, this to me, is interesting when

I look back to the backgroundsA some of the things that they were

trying to do, even in that day. I know we laugh sometimes when

we talk about how far we've come -. and integration, at

AL 40A 6

sj

that time, the segregation, and it took a whole lot of guts to

stand up for some of the principles that men like Dr. Gordon.

So much I could tell you about Gainesville. I'd like to tell

you something about the first schools. I remember that GHS,

first school, is now where Santa Fe is, Santa Fe Junior College

is on University Avenue, that division. Then came the Lincoln

High School, which is now where the A. Quinn Jones School. And

out of it has come some great, great men, both white and black.

Tei j I 1 0 \AVO'(L education, if you did that in that day,

gosh, it'd just go places now. year we honored

Professor A. Quinn Jones, who was a principal when I was in

high school, and by the way, I'll /,,^i be sixty-five years

old the twenty-eighth of next month. So, I can see him now as

he spent time Dfi over, with the same philosophy that

I have nowj /ove of people, trying to advance people. And I see

all of it, one young fellow who has been the visiting professor

to one of the finest universities in the country Dr. Joseph

Dennis.of Atlanta, Georgia. I can see any of those times the

fine fellow who wrote for several newspapers, Atlanta, and Pittsburgh,

Rick Roberts. And oI-f t I' we've got a lot of

inspiration by people who didn't care about seeing people suffer,

but seeing people love. In the twenties, it wasn't so bad back

then, the twenties, it wasn't....and yet, it was better if you

want to look back at it, but I, I say some groundwork was laid

for a future in that particular stage. And I'd be glad to talk

on, but I, I definitely could talk on, I imagine sometime

people like to know about my records, but my records didn't

Al 40A 7

sj

start here in Gainesville as a coach until 1920, well, no, I

didn't get here until really after I got out of college. I got

here in 1933, and you might know that I won, went seven years

undefeated as a coach. I don't know how I felt then, but I learned

something then that I learned to pray early in those days,

I want to know whether I, when I offer that to people now who

are having problems, and then I went two years when I didn't

lose but two games in the two years, and then I went another five

years undefeated, then I went one year with one loss, then I

went another five years undefeated. Well, after I coached for

twenty-eight years, and I had 242 victories, I had twenty-two

ties, and thirteen losses, I thought it was sensible to quit it

while I was on top. But in that time, I had a chance to meet

your coach at GHS and found him to be a fine young man there,

he's still a fine young man there, and one of your black coaches

over here, I can remember him as a little boy, he was outstanding,

made me look great one year, and that was Big Bob

a fine gentleman now. I: like to talk about these people, v\AC-ler

-14 CA'rv blac ck ory- CA made contributionsto the community, and

cause the community to grow, and cause the community to begin to

love people and become concerned about people, you don't care

whether they're white or black, and that's the way I feel about

the community.

P: Can you tell me anything about when you were young,Awhat your

family life was like?

M: Yes. When I was young, my, we had a rather rough time, my mother

was a washwoman. But she was highly intelligent. Uh, and I ca

AL 40A 8

sj

M: intelligent, she was intelligent enough to become the maid

of Mr. Frank Clark, who was one time the senator. And after

Mr. Frank Clark died, she made her living off her washing and

ironing and doing special laundry for people like Dr. Murphree,

who was the president of the United, I mean of the University

of Florida. My father was o MrYpt ~? tr bc e, rael ,

And they did the best they could for me, I elect to tell you this)

that I was taught early to love people, this was the most unusual

thing. My mother taught me to try to be honest. One of the most

unusual things about this was that many times I'd eat tainted ham,

but my mother would take it blA it from Copeland's place up there

and bring it back and scrub it off with soda, and we 1Ed a whole

lot of the parts of the hog, such as'pig's feet, chitterlings,

and all of those type of things, but the one principle that I can

always remember my mother always said, "One day things are gonna

be better than this," and she kept cheering me on. And believe

it or not, in the early twenties, then--Y40 Y1 the late

twenties, you could come out of college, when ~-al them college)

and teach school in the summer, and I had, this is comical, I had

a job, seeAI taught4a every G2C i, i(AI d) from Mr. Simmons

right to Mrs. right through every 4Ur_____ 'kI

r .cs, r. But at this time, Mr. Simmons was LS ,'r I DZ11

tell you this. My mother, I had a job downtown, it was paying me

twelve dollars, and that was a lot. This was Mike's, Mike

had a hat shop, and he got sick one day. He had Mary, Alec, and

Frank,.and they were little boys I had been working there long

enough to know how to ring the cash register, maybe I was the

AL 40A

sj

M: first one of these black boysArun one of those places. I ran

the place, and when he got up, he was so craty about me that he

kept me thereAin the front. But my mother came one day, said,

"Darling, your momma got you a job." I said, "Where?"A/aid,

"Teaching. A teaching job) At what it paid me.' Twenty-five

dollars a month, I was teachingAat the little place near Archer.

I was the principal, had three teachers. They, cost me sixteen

dollars a month to stay out there, it cost me six dollars a month

to go out there to my job, and of it, I had three dollars to

live off of. Ae of the things about this, it got me started

in the field of education. It got me started because I learned to

love e(CV soC and appreciate my parents and what they told me to

do2 whether I liked to do it or not, I can remember my dad said

this when I finished high school. "Son, your dad don't believe

in a college education." But my mother did, and she was Sorn~i_

and I would see her bringing little balls of clothes sometimes

from the university, /ixteen wold bring

eight dollars, 'cause she got fifty dollars and some had eight shirts,

ten shirts in them, and family washes.)9 had had anywhere from

fifteen petticoats, fifteen sheets, she got a dollar and a quarter

in the starch and the soap. But you can see that they still

loved me enough to want to see me go through college and go to

the other places, and I can tell you this, I like to tell anybody

this, when you ever stop loving your parents, and really get love

in your heart for them, you go to colleges sometimes and you

pretend you're a big shot, you don't eat this and you don't eat

that, but I had a chance to cnme home one Christmas, and I

AL 40A Iu

sj

M: can tell you exactly what Christmas night, in 1929, when I got

home four o'clock in the morning, my mother wasn't looking for

me, and I walked up on the porch, you see, she didn't even much

look at the door, sdid, "Come in, son, you're mother's up ironing

at four o'clock in the morning-to send you some money so you

can spend for the holidays." That was the greatest inspiration

I ever had in my life. I went back to school and started to)

working for myself, running a little laundry, polishing the brass

on the doors, and the little football scholarshipAI had, instead

of borrowing it away, I put it to use. This has helped make me

the type of man I want to be.

P: Did religion play much of a part when you were young, then?
M: Yes, it did. I, I was very active, and believe it or not, this

is interesting, I'm glad you asked me that. I was very active

I can remember when I was about five years old, my mother was one

of the founders of MYou~ t CmOlel Baptist Church, the church
William Wright was pastor. My father was a steward in the __u_2_ -

icesOO.xit Methodist Church. But every Sunday, we had to go

to go to Sunday School, T had a brof0er And I asked my
mother did I have to go to Sunday School, she said, "Ask your
Dad." I asked my daddy did I have to, he said, "If you eat my

bread." So I came up in the Sunday School, and I did come out

of college, this too has played a very important part, I've been

very active in the Y.M.C.A. while I was in college, and this-

organization, I came back to Gainesville, and I've been working

in Gainesville ever since, I came back and I started as a Sunday

School teacher. I moved up from the Sunday School teacher to

AL 40A ii

sj

M: Sunday School superintendent, and from the Sunday School superintendent

you might as well know that now I am the assistant pastor

at Bzrkl Temple. Assistant Pastor at ~0ovl01 PrIac,.t and

I'm just tickled to death, I got a little country church out

where I preach and teach people to live so

that God can use them in making this a better world) Jo dc 5

Ogid +Cn'D-nj I, I know this is a foundation for changing

anybody's h ec4r C .

P: When you were young, do you, where did you get the food for your

family and things like that, for your family? do you remember
one of the ?

M: Well, as I told you once before, my mother did a lot for us for

food, from the washing and things, she'd get somebody to take them

in a truck and go up to Copeland's, and they used to sell hams)

some of them tainted, you see, but she could wash them, and get

them straight, and then you could buy pigsfeet and that type of

stuff pretty reasonable, and then we grew gardens in the back

yard, such as greens and cabbage and vfn had pear trees and fig

trees, pecan trees, and they were aggressive that time, they were

looking out for people, we didn't have too much money. Now, to

stop us from stealing or anything like that at that time, my father

had a philosophy /ever go to bed hungry. And4he would do, if

we'd come home and say you were hungry, if we didn't have something

they'd stir up what)you don't know this, what they call mush.
v^ hO elP
That was meal and water, and then we had syrup overAwith that, so

we, we felt more then, we didn't have all these fancy foods, or
this. I don't want nobody to believe that

AL 40A 12

sj

M; we did. But we did have enough to eat.

P: Do you remember/ about that time1 some of the other, anything else
or any f 4Fe
outstanding about maybe, any of the other motelsArd1 buildings?

M: Any of the buildings that were around Gainesville at that time?

Yes, most every building has been torn upwifth any size in

Gainesville. IAvery well remember. Long at this time, this is

about the time when the Presbyterian Church moved to it's present

spot. Shortly after this time, as I told you, it used to be

where the Florida National Bank is now. And right across the

street, where you see the RirateS,. this was another bank over
0 A'5 -, ePeh nc
there called Duffy's Bank.A express office was back where Pni

is now, where the junior welfare is. On the corner, right in

front of the juniorr Welfare, where the juniorr Yfelfare was, plus

in front of the bank, was the Elk's that was the

big thing in Gainesville, the Elks, they call it the Elk's, or

the Elk Lodge Down further, or I

might tell you some of the other things that were in

I had a chance to go to some of these They used

to call, at that time, the 1, which brought in various

entertainers once a year. And where you, right now, where the

traffic VsA used to be, well, rla'hT n9ea ~7 A there.

was where, was nothing but a big place and there's a branch, and

they put up a big tent there and they brought in these different

plays and different things went on there, that was a part of the

culture at that time, and

I mean, you can picture that, it must have been something, -4t Y( )e

waiting for that to come once a year. The present Citizens'

AL 40A 13

sj

Field use to be what was known as the fair grounds. Along in that

time they used to call that the Alachua County Fair Grounds.
By the way, we first got to play on what you call Harris Field.

This is where we first got to playircng O'( football for Lincoln

out there. See, there was a good relationship, because I would

borrow the benches from Coach Josh from University of

Florida at that time in the morning when Coach Boyer had a job
take the benches, get a truck

Ca IllJ in the morning, set them up out on Harris Field for

football, put up the goalpost there, in the afternoon, when the

game's over, take the goalpost back,Art take the goalpost down,

take the seats back to Harris Field, and then get steady to sponsor

the social for the V7iiV team). So, it was a g~b one

of the bPile~ifs VfsgygPs We didn't have a whole lot of, whole
io o ; yoA q i
lot of O(JS6 5 4 .~~ .tae some of the old hou5e8, O

KF wouldn't know about them because they'd been torn down. But
there were many over back by the First Methodist Church where

there was a park that everybody loved -l0 0,

this is a real park for downtown park, this is one time the

leading park,Anot too far fromA about a block away was the Cannons

lived there They would have been a type of people, the

lived right on the corner just off of this, the park. I can

remember a whole lot of these people at that time.

P: Could you tell me about what it was like, what sort of remedies
used, and some of the ,, family 'C)icSN6 ?

M: At that time, you had very little help. I can remember when we

AL 40A 14

sj

M: first started off with the Alachua County Hospital. It was

a very small building, but as time, time grew, it got a little

bigger, -4i it's been growing, and this last thing is really

a giant step.,, -, But that was the only thing, is the

size, that the university, that the university students got sick

just right on back of where the gymnasium was, what they call

the Infirmiry, and that's where they take the students, to the

Infirmiry. And if you had some money, you could go to Alachua

General Hospital 0i li 4 f-ie

P: Do you remember your mother using any home remedies of any type
?

M: Oh, yes. The cold, it got what they call out of the woods,

sassafras. They made a tea known as sassafras, and they used a

whole lot of herbs and things that grew out in the woods there.

Teas for cold. That was one of the main things that was, you

had cold, and you had trouble with your nose running, they had

hot towel put it under your nose,

breathe in some of it, they used some herbs and things that

_. A lot 6f those herbs and things, I

don't recall all the names, but I....

END OF SIDE ONE

AL 40A 1s

TAPE SIDE TWO

sj

P: Could you tell me whether you really liked living in the twenties

or would you rather live now?

M: I'd rather live now. The twenties was a limited opportunity.

The chance to use the abilities that you had was so far different

than it is today. I used to take a little ability and believe

it or not, I one time was rated as one of the third outstanding

recreati-onists ': in the United States black. But I somehow, I

have had a l-ove'for people like whom we

worked together while we were young. But even Mr. Howard Bishop,

he brought me back and they were interested after I got out of

college, after I got a master's degree, that I would come back to

Gainesville and work, and I tell you this, it was interesting

that one time, I had a love of physical education even back in

the black days, days, for GHS. They came to Lincoln

because they didn't have anybody qualified, and I had a master's

from Columbia and I can remember, I don't guess I'll give these

boys away, -at -you stt have to come over there if you were

gonna graduate, and go in the physical education/ 1:=s*4-o put

the M O" on the physical ed. So, yes, I'd rather live in this
day, if I had to live it. And I think if I'd lived just about

five more years longer, I would like to live it "d VnMb- I 'd S

S,,.ri. o~progess A$i on the way.

P: How long, did you notice, have you noticed that prejudice is going

away, and things like that? Do you remember, you know,4definite

points when they stopped?
M: Yes. I n i in
M: Yes. I W^ I yhe one of the sad situation, prejudice has

AL 40A 16

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M: come from a long ways back in that not knowing, I saw some things

in the, the last few years make me know that people just know

now some of the things that said about black people at that time

was true, they hadn't had the experience. But given the chance,
'ie e t ,,
and yet I know we say some of the things thatAwe-se now, but we
see it on both sides. But given a chance, and taking advantage

of the chance, and having sense enough to try to get along with

people, I see so much opportunity, and say this,

the east side with brother the other day, I

say the black kids, I say to them, "Now, this is your greatest

opportunity, 'cause here you're going to school side by side

if you got the attitude, the right attitude, that your fellow

brothers, even though they don't like you as of now, but if you

keep growing smarter, and you keep on doing the things that's

right, iE '1 -ln if love and then a little later on, you'll

end up maybe in business together." I've seen this happen in

Gainesville, the first lawyer, George Allen, who went to University

of Florida, and who was admitted, and then he finished. Instead

of him having to stay a-round and worry about a job, his partners

took him together and down to Miami, and he became one

of the outstanding lawyers. I looked on television, and I studied

the situation of athletics in California, and I see after you

begin to know each other, and if you have the right attitude, the

right action, the right attitude, not so much as to live in a i.

house with one another, but gu begin to love and understand

one another, and there's nothing sometimes people won't do for

you. I, I'm pretty old now, but if I told you some of the homes

AL 40A 17

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M: that I get invited to dinners, and I mean the people who I knew

once you couldn't fy much look that way, but after they found

out that you're human, that you're trying to be intelligent,

that you're trying to make a contribution to society, you have

the right attitude, and you had to have that right attitude to

come where you are, then they accept you. And the only thing
ifrrv
that I'm saying here now,i\not being Uncle Tom-ish, I'm not trying

to score anything in it, but I would like to see both groups

not so much come to stay in your house, but learning to know

each other because job opportunity, and other opportunity will

open up and then you'll remember that he's a smart boy,,Jyou want

him to work. If he's an intelligent boy, but if he's a fellow

always cause trouble, or ignorant,The doesn't want to keep himself

clean, you don't want him around, you don't want him, I don't

care what color he is. So therefore, I have a key....loving

one another but while loving one another, put in the best practices

as possible. a smile, and remember hate begets

hate, and in the long run, love will pay off, a love begets love,

and you can't lose 'cause you've got more to gain than we ever

had in my time, and I'm the one to talk. A ,

P: Was one of the main reasons, do you think

is just lack of understanding due to the....

M: Oh, yes, yes. Oh, yes. It's a bit of history when revealed. It

has been ignorance on both sides. Ignorance on one side for not

being exposed. Ignorance on another side for being taught that

everybody was inferior to them. And that all other people were

ignorant. But, this is not being proven with the modern type

AL 40A 1i

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M: of thing, the smart boy moves right up whether he's black or
white and he's got personality, and this has just been happening,
the reason I say the chances are better, if you are intelligent,

if you're smart, you look cool and smooth, you're gonna make it.

eTb accept you. J1~a l-et at the banks, Lv "
looking at these other place now where no money's ever beginning

to open doors.- -.that ____________
T~jg lookd1 in the TRY) /ookivc ah), e.vek-) ^
we talk about the police 5-t4{ ctU? c 41u n95 o I'm looking at
te-a-egt type of things that is coming about now, even though
we don't want to accept the little problems but it's a beginning.

p: Veo'b, A1 klo1yb) WlIt your'e Y' is there any other aspects -
f IfI e that you remember frolthe twenties?
M:A I've seen some rough times, and that's
and not for myself, I just happened, one of the ce fe't
fellows I had the privilege of being my high school coach was
Charles Chestnut, the afC`fj grandfather, Charley Chestnut.
He lives so in his life and made such a contribution to all
people. I think I gave him the philosophye~4-ShU \va b ck / 1k
him getting people to love him. And if anything h-ae been any
inspiration to me, it was Charley Chestnut who was my coach
and A. Quinn Jones who was rnY~ pi' fl; I and who lives
today, and I think taEts did a tremendous job and/still active.
I like -h QJi,/ always being pleased with them because fundamentally,
we learn the fundamentals of English, we learn the fundamentals
of everything regardless of what they took time9 pnd prepared
us for a future. That's better than all 'I e 0, f-O
u