US Overreacts to U-23 USMNT Olympic Qualification Defeat

The dust has settled, the bitter acrimony has crested and now it is time for perspective. The United States will not be going to the London Summer Olympics. Neither will France, Germany, the Netherlands, Italy, Portugal, Argentina, Chile, Australia, the Ivory Coast and Ghana. England wouldn’t have qualified either if it weren’t part of the hosting Great Britain team. Spain qualified, but for only the first time since 2000. Brazil’s qualified as well, but has never won gold.

Still, the indictments came down harder than the old Giants Stadium turf; despite America’s illustrious non-qualifying company. NESN’s Marcus Kwesi O’Mard said ‘mediocrity has become normal.’ The San Francisco Chronicle’s Alan Black deemed that American soccer lacks ‘hunger.’ It gets worse. The Denver Post’s Chuck Murphy brazenly blamed the poor performance on the players’ privileged background claiming, “…many of the players, all of them highly skilled, have been coddled for most of their athletic lives…Hardscrabble? Hardly. A couple are the children of university professors. One is Ghanian royalty. Several attended the prestigious IMG Academy.” The Cleveland Plain Dealer’s Tim Warsinskey deemed the U.S. an ‘embarrassment’ and was left so despondent as to contemplate whether “…American soccer’s future is in its past.”

Depressing reading, but the level of invective is unwarranted in light of the relative meaningless of the Olympic soccer tournament and the historical lack of qualifying by many of the sport’s traditional titans. For example, France has qualified once since copping gold in 1984, Holland has qualified once since 1952, Germany has yet to qualify since unification, and Uruguay has qualified for the first time since 1928.

No nation’s World Cup win has been preceded by Olympic gold since Italy’s 1936 triumph. Moreover, the U.S. failed to qualify for the 2004 Athens Olympics, yet has qualified for every subsequent World Cup, and lifted the Gold Cup in 2005 and 2007.

So let’s slow our roll on the doom and gloom. And if Canada’s 2-0 win portends a new power up north, so be it. Stronger CONCACAF competition will only beget stronger American soccer.

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Earl ReedMarch 31, 2012

Like I said on Twitter yesterday: 2022 World Cup Bid – Failed. 2011 CONCACAF Gold Cup – Loss to Mexico. 2011 FIFA U-20 World Cup – Failed to Qualify. 2012 CONCACAF Olympic Qualifying Tournament – Failed to Qualify. I hate to say it, because I will always support US Soccer, but this is not a good run of results. Not the end of the world? I’ll buy that. Reason for concern? Absolutely.

The authors opinion that it’s not important is not a casual
American fans viewpoint. Unlike France, Portugal, Germany, etc.
which the author seems bent on emulating, Americans pay attention
to the Olympics. We failed. We failed in a manner we had never done
so before.. We were at home and failed to get out of group play.
Don’t sugar coat it. It was a poor result. It was a poor effort.
And repercussions should come from results like this.

It’s all too easy to point to negatives. The non-qualification for
the Olympics isn’t great, but at the end of the day it’s just a bad
result, not a fundamental crack in the foundation of US soccer.
Don’t forget, it’s part of a work in progress. Our impatient
culture of win and win now makes it difficult to see any progress.
Klinsmann’s methods are beginning to take hold with the USMNT, and
we’ve just put a string of good results together. The fan culture
in the US is getting more and more passionate by the day, which is
a wonderful thing, but it can be too venomous at times . When we
win, it’s not by a large enough margin, and when we lose, it’s the
end of everything. The effort to improve our level of play at all
levels shouldn’t be viewed as a factory where pieces and parts are
thrown onto the conveyor belt and we sit back and wait for the
right person to put it all together. It’s up to all of us to
support the effort by cheering every success, being critical (and
fair) about the shortfalls and looking ever forward. If we don’t
highlight the positives, we’re only working against ourselves.

Those Euro countries might not care about the Olympics, but the
rest of the world does – including Argentina and Brazil. Also, USSF
put huge importance to this competition and selected players and
touted them as the Olympic team – including the coach doing so.
These players are supposed to be the cream of the crop from the
region (minus those unavailable for selection – which all countries
had to deal with here), and so yes, this is a failure of
significance for USA in the same way it’d be if Canada eliminates
Mexico.

The US will never be great at soccer. We’re fighting against
demographics. We are a rich country in which it doesn’t make sense
to become a professional athlete (unless you have strange physical
feature: Football, Basketball). Here it makes more economic sense
to do things that don’t hurt the body and that are … easier. Not
so in El Salvador. Soccer is basically it, or drug dealing. So, our
teams will always be decent, but not great given our overwhelming
size. I know that this doesn’t fully explain the Canada loss, but
if I were Canada, I would ALWAYS want to beat the lower 48.
Motivation is a coaching issue, so the Akron chief isn’t off the
hook in my book.

Arnie, I don’t buy that all. By that argument we shouldn’t have
good athletes in any sport. There are far more demanding sports on
the body than soccer. The reason we are still far behind is because
we don’t have the soccer infrastructure and we don’t have the
soccer culture. Both Europe and South America have this. Until we
have both we won’t break into the upper echelon. soccer
infrastructure- 5 tier Promotion/Relegation pyramid with youth
academies in all 1st and 2nd tier. The goal of USSF should be to
establish a soccer pyramid with 100+ teams. This is Japans goal and
its a travesty that a country like the U.S hasn’t yet set a similar
goal. Not having a pro/rel pyramid kills us with developing a great
national team. soccer culture- this won’t happen over night. It
hurts us that we only have the world cup every 4 years to look
forward to. What would really benefit soccer in this country is
having a real Copa America that was a joint concacaf/conmbebol
tournament. But pro/rel would also go a long ways to create a
soccer culture. Right now if you don’t live in an MLS city you
don’t really pay attention to domestic soccer.

While I don’t necessarily agree with you totally, I do agree with a
lot of what you say. I also take you seriously because you at least
make an effort to support soccer in America, which is more than I
can say for some people with similar arguments. You bring up great
points about creating a soccer culture that is tied together in
this country. I think that everyone can agree with this. I would
argue that it is not a sure thing as to exactly what will happen if
a pro/rel system is integrated. I would also argue that until 2nd
and 3rd tier soccer is not seen as financially risky for owners,
you will not have pro/rel ever. I would be interested to see
pro/rel started from the bottom level and work its way up to see
how well it actually works and if it starts to get people excited.
USL could do this with tier 3 through 5. Another problem is that
this country will NEVER be ok with 2 or 3 teams winning a
championship every year the way they do in Europe so some sort of a
salary cap would have to be implemented. Also, soccer outside in
the winter will never fly here in America in the coldest areas,
especially in tier 3 through tier 5 soccer. Conferences will always
be essential to cut travel time and cost, especially for lower
level teams. The personally think that the concept of automatic
pro/rel is silly. The lower tier team should have to be able to
beat the “relegated” team to be promoted. I think that when certain
people approach the argument that you make without giving a little
in sensible areas, they hurt their own cause.

I wouldn’t have conferences in the top league. But in Div 2 and
lower I would divide the leagues into East and West Conferences.
Pro/rel would have to be something started by USSF. It’s not
something you could let USL try and then see if it works. It only
works when there is something worth being promoted to. The
federation has to set the goal to implement a pro/rel system with
100+ teams. Japan set this goal and look at their pro/rel structure
since they did. It’s grown leaps and bounds and so has their
national team. This is the thesis of my argument. A pro/rel
structure is directly tied to the growth of the national team. This
isn’t some bizarre theory. This exact argument was made by Alex
Ferguson who said that America needs promotion/relegation for the
sport to grow and for the national team to make that next step.

I do not think that this USSF will try to implement pro/rel ever. I
think this is a silent war. What is at stake here is really BIG.
The implementation of promotion and relegation on US soccer is a
huge threat for the american sports stablishment! If a US soccer
league susccesfully implements pro/rel, things will never be the
same on the american sports landscape!….and THEY KNOW IT!
……This USSF does not have a vision or clear plan for soccer in
america, they exclusively gave MLS, LLC. division 1 status knowing
that single entity and pro/rel are not compatible. ……..The
development and pursuit of our true soccer potential is not in the
best interest of the american sports stablishment. They are very
powerfull and smart, and I think that it make a lot of sense to
think that they are controlling our game from within. Think about
it, what would you do on their shoes?………………….I think
that the real fans ( not the self appointed guardians of the status
quo ) have to create a parallel organization that sends a clear
message:……”We are not swallowing!”

You have to watch American soccer to be considered a real fan.
Nobody cares what non-fans think. You kill your own argument by
preaching and not watching. The movement you speak of does need to
be started by real fans, not people that just tune into EPL. Fake
US Soccer fans will run away if we have pro/rel too. They will
still complain about salary caps, spring to fall schedule, or any
other justification that they can find to not watch and support the
players. That type of snobbishness is hurting American soccer way
more than not having pro/rel. Pro/rel needs to be started by fans,
not a bunch of know it alls that don’t watch.

So if people lived in a city with a minor league team they would
care about soccer……I find that to be funny. People dont care jn
cities that have finished second in MLS repeatedly or won the whole
league.

and by GOOD attendance you mean 17,500 people per game, with the
Sounders contributing for two team, so the average without them is
closer to 16k…….yeah, my arguement stinks then…….I am very
curious Andy which team do you root for ? LIke for instance I was a
FC Seattle, then Sounders fan while they didn’t play in MLS…you ?
Do you have season tickets for a non MLS team ?

Charles, there are 38 states in the USA and countless cities
without an MLS team. Living in San Diego there is no way in hell
I’m rooting for LA Galaxy or Chivas USA because, I LIVE IN SAN
DIEGO. That is why I choose to root for Xolos because not only are
they 10 miles away but they are doing great things in the city of
San Diego like setting up an academy and getting youngsters playing
time. MLS has zero precesne here in SD other than an occasionally
money grab friendly.

I don’t disagree with anything you are saying, I think San Diego
should have a team. The Soccers were a good team that did ok
financially in very tough soccer econ times. LA should NOT have two
teams either……………………….. And you are free to
choose who to root for. Go Xolos. But unfortunatly for you, your
choice is to root a team that will never win, ever. Never play in
CCL, ever. It is a shame, most of the world is in your shoes. Why
?? Same reason you hate MLS….money.

Roger, well I agree with your criticisms of USSF. I don’t think
other sports care whether or not soccer develops pro/rel though.
It’s not even something they think about. The thing is MLS/USSF and
those that support single entity are stuck in this archaic way of
thinking. They think they can just take soccer and then put it into
an American sports template and then get success. Just look at the
name MLS, it’s one letter short of MLB. It’s a small thing but with
a name like Major League Soccer you’re signaling that you are more
interested in fitting in with other American sports rather than
becoming a part of the global game. Take me for example. I don’t
live in a city with an MLS team. Therefore I don’t really watch
MLS. I watch USL to support my local team. But since my team can
never be promoted I have no real interest in what happens in MLS.
I’m not saying I never tune into an MLS game. I do on occasion. But
it’s mostly to keep tabs on potential USNT players. What happens in
the league and who wins is of very little interest to me. The same
goes for my friends I see at USL games. None of them pay attention
to MLS for the same reasons. But if there was pro/rel you better
believe we would all pay attention to the top league for the simple
reason our team might be playing in it if they win their league.
Now its not hard to consider how many fans MLS is missing out on
when you consider they shut out the majority of the country of
having a rooting interest. With a pro/rel pyramid you no longer
just have fan bases in just 17 cities. You have fan bases all over
the country. The problem is MLS see’s pro/rel as a threat to
stability when in reality it is the golden ticket to a soccer
culture and shared prosperity for all pro soccer teams.

You answered my question. I can see how someone like you is for
pro/rel. It is not going to happen, but I get it……………..I
actually like pro/rel, it is a very romantic spots idea……….
The problem you have is that with Pro/Rel in my opinion is that you
have too many teams that don’t draw. Like for instance you saying,
MLS has good attendance. They do compared to other, in my opinion,
badly run leagues, because 90% of the teams has no chance of
winning….ever. Compared to leagues that are actually
run……..not so much……………So you get into the game of,
should Andy have a real team capable of winning the top league ?
YES. Should every team be able to win it ? YES. Good luck doing
both and in the first scenerio your team in Springfield, Small
State, USA wasn’t going to win it all anyway.

Charles, but look at a city like Portland. If we had pro/rel we
would have been aware of how awesome a soccer city Portland is some
time ago. When Portland was in USL with no chance of promotion they
didn’t draw very well. Was the reason for this that they didn’t
have passionate fans until they caught MLS fever? Not likely. The
reason is they were shut out of promotion and thus fans had no
rooting interest. Imagine how crazy Portland fans would have gone
if the Timbers were in Div 2 and one win away from promotion.
Portland hasn’t won anything in MLS and yet they have the most
fervent fan base. So I don’t buy into your argument that pro/rel
would be pointless because the same teams would win anyway. It’s
apple and orange. We only need to look to Europe to see this is not
the case. Imagine the EPL closed off and separated from the rest of
the English pyramid with no pro/rel. It would be a nightmare for
soccer culture in England and the lower division clubs would all
fold.

Imagine the EPL closed off from Pro/Rel….hmmmm, would it still be
a joke ? I doubt it……I don’t get what you are saying with the
same teams DON’T win over and over in Europe ? I must be missing
something. As Real Madrid and Man U have all but
clinched….again….and again….and again.

Charles, Sir Alex Ferguson stated that the end of Pro/Rel would be
suicide for the lower divisions. There are great clubs in lower
divisions (Leeds) but who were mismanaged and currently trying to
claw there way back. Charles, if you haven’t noticed LA Galaxy have
been in 50% of MLS finals over the past 10 years and Galaxy have
won the supporters shield 4 times since 1999.

Wait, what? LA won 3 times in the past 10 years and were the runner
up 1 of those times. They weren’t even in the finals in 2010. That
trend is changing. I guarantee that Man U and their trend won’t
change for 50 years in their system. LA won the past 2 supporters
shields, probably won’t this year, and their last time before that
was 2002. 4 times since 1999? That is 4 in 13 years. You really
can’t see the difference in being dominant like that and Man U? If
MLS were single table, you would have at least had 8 different
league champions, not one where one team wins 2 out of every 3
years.

Joe Roth changed the name to Sir Alex Whats-his-face after his
screw up last summer……………If he says so, then they should
keep the Pro/Rel system in place there. No doubt who is in charge
of that league, is there ?…………………….I am ALL for it.
It is a lot better for MLS ( and without a doubt, in my mind, the
only one that matters, US Soccer ) if the Sounders draw more than
almost every team in Europe outside of Germany………It is
amazing to me, how little money there is in soccer ( Messi makes
less than Ichiro) and then somehow quite a few think the US will go
that direction……………..

Yeah, it was Sir Alex, not the changing of the league and the
insurgance of money into the equation completely destroying the
already unlevel playing field. Probably Joe Torre that made the
Yankees great too.

Maybe not, but do you really think the he could have produced a
team that wins 12 out of 18 championships without spending like
crazy? Again, basing a sport on how much money you have is
rediculous. I am also willing to bet that things are financially
more lopsided than they were in the 80s where Man U did not spend
like they do now. Man City did not do great before Mancini, but he
blew money left and right to have that team.

@Robert, Didn’t even know those rating buttons were on there. Still
don’t care. I am a lot smarter and have been around longer than
anyone………………..@Alan, all those praising Sir Alex as a
god, do not have a clue. He has been great no doubt, but he coaches
a team favored to win every year on a very unlevel playing field. I
think guys like Rooney would get exposed in a fair fight.

So a couple of trolls rate stuff down. Who cares but the other
trolls? @Charles Exactly. They buy up all of the great players that
other teams can’t afford and win year after year. Sir Alex is a
great coach, but without all of the money that Man U has they would
not win every year no matter how good he is. Thumbs down that.

What the author fails to mention is that 50% of the countries he
listed have stars above their nations crest. USA still has a long
way to go before we can ignore the Olympics like other great soccer
countries. Also, those countries have superior youth
academies/development where they are tested at the highest level.

I agree with the author. While it is fun to watch the USMNT
whenever they play, the Olympics just isn’t important. You really
think the team would get better experience playing a few
international games as opposed to their regular club games? I don’t
at all buy that they are missing out on some magical experience.
Also to the people talking about the US not qualifying for the
World Cup; you are idiots. The US has more players on solid
international teams than ever.

without pro/rel in the UK fans of championship and league 1 teams
would have no reason to watch the EPL. The English FA knows this.
Without pro/rel the football watching public would be demoralized
and every team below the EPL would lose value and face
administration. From what I’m gathering you think the EPL would be
a better league to watch without pro/rel and with an MLS style
playoff?

Andy- I’m lucky enough to live near an MLS team so I do watch the
league, but I agree with everything your saying. The vitality of
lower leagues in Europe comes from the connection to the top
division.——- Charles- I disagree that most clubs never win
anything, they win their league (at whatever level) and they win
promotion. Not to mention cups, European qualification, etc… Come
to think about, most national teams have similar type victories,
they win qualification to the World Cup, or win their group in the
WC, but not the WC itself. As a US fan, I’m sure you agree it is
more important to qualify for the world cup than to win the Gold
Cup. ————— One other thing, Real Madrid did not win their
league last year- this is their first title in a few years. And
while ManU is probably going to win their 4th in a row, you have to
marvel at the excellence of it (and no, I’m not a ManU fan). I
doubt another team will do this again anytime soon, including ManU.
It will be interesting to see how they do when Ferguson retires- it
is not like ManU simply outspends everyone else.

I must disagree with you when it comes to teams winning. At the
highest level, the same teams do win all of the time and it is a
real problem. In the past 22 years, Real Madrid and Barcelona and
shared the championship, and it is not because they have a great
coach. Research La Liga and how all of the revenues go to the top 2
to buy all of the players. In EPL it is a 3 team race. Man U has
won 11 of the past 17 titles, Chelsea 4, and Arsenal 2. Man City
spent themselves into oblivion just to have a fighting chance.
Bayern has practically owned the Bundesliga title, but they lose it
occasionally. In Serie A, things have been slightly more balanced
but not by much. Inter, Milan, and Juve have won all but 2 of the
titles since 1991. In MLB, the Yankees are considered the dominant
team, but they have only won of the last 20 World Series. Everybody
hates the Lakers for winning all of the time and they have only won
5 of the last 12 and then there was a 12 year gap in them winning.
Those two leagues don’t have salary caps, but at least have
playoffs to balance things out a little bit. All of you pro/rel
fans and insane if you think that soccer fans in the US fans want
to see the same teams win every year, or every other year. Back in
May, I predicted that Man City and Man U would complete for 1 and
2. I also predicted that Chelsea and Arsenal would compete for 3
and 4. Sure Tottenham is up there, but I am pretty much right.
Everyone said that I was crazy and that you can’t predict things,
but who is crazy now. I think that everyone knew that Real Madrid
or Barcelona will win again, and will win for the next 5 years.
These are legitimate concerns for people against pro/rel. I have no
issue with pro/rel, but there needs to be SOME parity. Money should
not be the main factor in determining a winner in a sporting
competition. If pro/rel can be implemented without the same teams
winning every year, then maybe those that oppose pro/rel might
listen. Seriously though, if you can honestly say that the same
teams don’t buy their way to championships every year and shut out
promoted teams for ANY chance of winning, then you are nuts. Man
City is a rarity and only have come as far as they did by spending
themselves into debt.

Your mixing pro/rel with play-offs and parity and revenue sharing.
The old English league had pro/rel for a century, with more
equitable TV revenue and gate sharing, and teams didn’t dominate
the way ManU has recently. The Yankees, while not winning the world
series, have had the best regular season record a lot (in fact, the
new play-off system in baseball has been introduced in part because
of concerns that too many wild card teams are winning in the
play-offs). Also, college football, with no pro/rel, has had the
same teams dominate many conferences. Also, Liverpool has spent a
lot of money with no results; it is not just about money, it is
about excellence. Also, Bayern don’t always win, they’ve won once
in the last 3 years. Spain’s dominance of the big two was not as
bad in the 90’s as it is now; and I agree that Spains current TV
set up is not good. I wouldn’t copy it. I’d also keep play-offs
because that’s what we do in America. I think we can do things our
own American way, however I think pro/rel makes both the top
leagues and lower leagues much more exciting; and I don’t
understand fans who desire a closed system.

I am just stating the concerns of most people that don’t like
pro/rel, and most people tie in pro/rel to the same teams winning
every other year. Bayern has won 5 of the last 10 years and will
probably win again today. Ask the pro/rel trolls here if they would
separate the 2 and I guarantee that they won’t. I never said that I
desire a closed system. I said that I desire a fair chance for
those getting promoted to win without having to spend themselves
into debt. In fact, I would rather see pro/rel before I see lack of
parity or playing soccer in 10 degree weather and snow.

Tom, you are completely wrong. using only the regular season
actually INCREASES the number of teams that have WON in
baseball…..a lot. I figured it out a couple of years ago. The
Mariners were champs in 2001 !!!!

Then we agree on more than I realized. I agree that big clubs
should recognize that they need opponents, and they should share TV
revenues and gate. But I don’t mind a pecking order because some
teams have more fans, it just shouldn’t an insurmountable
advantage. And we should not conflate excellence with unfairness.
Barcelona is run excellently and has developed a superb class of
players. It won’t last, or others will catch up eventually.

I agree. Why should Barcelona be punished for a world class youth
academy and development? Why should Sounders Franchise Club tarp
seats off for the benefit of Franchise Club Dallas? Its like saying
Apple should be capped so Dell can compete.

Apple vs Dell is not a sport. Why should Eapanyol be punished for
not having the money to be competitive?Besides, nobody is punishing
Barcelona. If their system is world class, then they can compete on
the same financial level as anyone else. Not everyone that competes
on the team is from their youth academy. They are purchased with
money that is not shared fairly from things like TV revenue. Again,
if their program is so awesome, then this shouldn’t affect them at
all.

Tom, with all due respect, you are crazy. The other teams will
never catch up in Spain. Barca and RM get ALL the money. Go ahead
and look up the discrepancy, what changes that ? At least in
England they share the TV revenues somewhat. You wouldn’t think Man
U could compete…….ooops a little to late on that one.

Forced parity is terrible for sports leagues. This is why i don’t
like salary caps. As far as playoffs and pro/rel these are two
different issues. My point has been that not having pro/rel hurts
the growth of our national team and prevents a soccer culture from
forming in this country. You could have playoffs or not have
playoffs and it wouldn’t affect the national team.

@ALAN, NFL doesn’t compete internationally, which is why they can
have salary caps. Imagine if NFL was played globally most of our
A-list players will go to where the money is if NFL still operated
under a salary cap. NFL is a freaking joke anyway.

That is so true MLS will continue to suck if they cant attract
quality players.To attract quality players it takes $. With the
current salary structure the league will only attract players who
cant make the cut in better paying leagues

@Gazza, I’m not sure what you do for a living but I can sure as
hell bet you want to be paid for what you are worth and what you
bring to a company. If your company doesn’t pay you for all your
hard work I can bet you wouldn’t be with that company for too long

You do this a lot. Someone working in a job and someone competing
in a sport are 2 completely different things. Sometimes they happen
to be one in the same but they don’t go by the same rules. Besides,
you can still be well-paid under a salary cap. Sure, MLS has a low
salary cap and I hope to see it rise, but at a certain point, it
needs to level off. For EPL, it should level off around the point
that the lowest teams can reasonably be expected to afford. Then a
team like Fulham might be able to win a championship and I could
actually root for them. I love how people say that it is pointless
to root for a team that can’t get promoted but that it isn’t
pointless to root for a team that can’t spend enough to win. NFL is
extremely profitable with salary caps and players make a lot of
money.

Alan, those guys competing in a sport is their job. It’s how they
pay their bills and put food on the table. They aren’t playing
sports to make you feel good about your city. Again, NFL can have a
salary cap and be able to put on a quality show because guess what?
Where else are the players going to play?

If you had read what I wrote, I said that it was their job, but
they are under a different set of rules. It just so happens that it
is a sport AND their job. The fact that it is their job doesn’t
change the rules for competition. NHL has a salary cap and their
are other hockey leagues around the world. Players still come here
to play, and NHL is still looked at as the best league in the
world. The same could hold true for NFL players. Besides, other
countries spending themselves into debt doesn’t justify another
country sacrificing competitiveness. Competitiveness should be
based on teamwork, coaching, training, hard work, etc, not money.

Robert, you are completely off base. Where is a MLS guy going to go
? Seriously, if it is so easy, so desired, so profitable, why are
so many signing with MLS ? Why because they WANT to stay in the US.
Because there are not that many teams that pay better or enough
better for them to learn Swedish.

@Alan, please stop comparing soccer to sports that are only played
and or closed off to foreign competition. NHL is only the best
league in the world because it doesn’t compete internationally.
Players come here because we pay more. Simple Simple. The NHL
champion doesn’t play the Northern European Champion. Just like
NFL, MLB, NBA etc.

We can pay more because of how popular hockey is here. We can’t pay
soccer players more because it is not that popular yet. We
shouldn’t go into debt buying players just to compete
internationally. I would much rather see a competitive domestic
league than the same 2 teams winning it all over and over just so
they can compete against another team from another country. Who
really cares? We can say “of course they won because they spent 10
times wat we spent”. Then you have the same problem that other
domestic leagues have. Its a dumb system.

Charles- I actually meant teams in Europe and the world catching up
to Barcelona, but, given 50 years, a team in Spain might also. The
TV structure might change, a team like Valencia might grow its
brand, and Barcelona might one day be mismanaged. They are owned by
their members (fans), which might prove to be limiting. I’ll also
be rooting for any 3rd team that can usurp the big two- the last on
was 2004 . ——————– Alan, – I prefer college football
to the NFL. No franchise moves, less government subsidies for
stadiums, but most of all, more teams, bigger differences in the
set-ups, and big upsets and desperate heartbreaks between clubs
-colleges- of mismatched size and tradition. And more fans in
stadiums as opposed to at home. ————- But I do agree with
you that there are some predictability problems in Spain and
England. I love Real Madrid to go on a multi-year swoon the like
the recent U of Texas football teams (or like Liverpool’s, come to
think of it).

Valencia is a clear example of a well managed club and developing
players. They sold off David Villa and David Silva and Juan Mata to
avoid their debt issues all while still trying to fund their new
stadium and currently sitting third in La Liga. Not an easy feat

It was Alan that mentioned 50 years, sorry. The irony is that this
whole thing blew up over something I don’t give a toss about-
Olympic soccer. I’ll follow the Euros, MLS, and Olympic women’s
soccer this summer- that will be more than enough. We’ve all made
our points, time to move on.

@Gazza I hate salary caps. All it does is lead to mediocrity. Like
someone else said the NFL can have a salary cap because American
football is not an international sport. I’m pretty sure MLS is the
only soccer league in the world that has a salary cap. In fact MLS
does many things that are more consistent with other American
sports rather than being more consistent with how soccer is
structured and played around the globe. I think this is very wrong
and its one reason domestic soccer in this country is still so
niche. Like I said. Not living in a city with a MLS team means I
don’t really have an incentive to follow the league. I’ll watch
games now and then but if during the middle of the season you asked
me who had the top records in the league I wouldn’t be able to tell
you. This is MLS’s and domestic soccers problem. They only appeal
to soccer fans in MLS cities while other leagues around the world
have national appeal in their countries because of pro/rel. As far
as playoffs I don’t mind that there is a playoff. It probably could
be done better(maybe a group playoff system would work). I think
having pro/rel is so vital that without it soccer in this country
is really going to start to regress. There are so many of us out
there that follow our local USL clubs, go to games and support them
but we don’t watch MLS. And then there are those that see no point
in following the local USL club because they know they can never
get promoted. Not having pro/rel just sucks big time.

@Andy The NHL and NBA have salary caps and are international
sports. All the best players in the world come to our leagues. As
for your point about not following the league because there’s not a
team in your area …… I’m not buying it. Because you can support
a team or teams thousands of miles away in Europe. If you don’t
like MLS then don’t follow it. Don’t come to MLS centric websites
telling people ‘If only MLS did this ,,,, I would follow it’ when
it is simply not true. The league is growing stronger every year
and will do so with or without you. MLS will never adopt pro/rel
for several reasons – the first being the owners are not that
stupid. They see what’s going on in Europe. They know fans will
never support a league structure where 2 or 3 teams can win the
title for decades on end.

@Gazza MLS better develop pro/rel or its going nowhere. Not having
pro/rel in this country is hurting our national team prospects and
I’m tired of ignorant people like you who know nothing about soccer
telling us we don’t need pro/rel. Look around the fucking world how
the sport is structured and where its most successful.