No sooner did I look beyond the Accura Sep for potential matches/foundations for kitbashing the Dutch WWII subs, than I ran across the following, best-yet-by-far candidate for bashing an O16-, O19- or O21-class:

This is Encore's 400-scale Soviet L-class mold - whose lines I've never much liked (and thus, unfairly ignored), as a sort of a Gato's-uglier-sister - but it is precisely this that makes it far and away the best (in any scale, AFAIK) foundation for any of the WWII Dutch O-boats. Of course the aft end (top- and upper right) has the right profile - needing only to be thinned from the centerline (seam) and the outsides and pinched together, and of course the rudder shifted/reshaped a bit. But the real prize embodied by this mold is the beamy pressure hull (middle, middle-left and bottom-right - its lines maddeningly difficult to photograph), which just slightly flattens on top - about exactly like on the Dutch O-boats. At the bow (lower-left, and -right), as desired, the taper is fairly rapid - it would be easy to add the boxy torpedo tubes, over a thin extension of the prow, to get the required bulging-over-dishing, here - though of course the large, flaring crown on the casing will have to be largely discarded. Even so, its upswept sheer - easily preserved along the centerline - is nearly ideal for the WWII O-class subs.

For many of the same reasons, the above mold could also be bashed into a very creditable K11- or K14-class sub - but, once again Encore offers something even (infinitely) better for that:

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The Encore 1:400 Soveit D-class mold, featuring a dished-in casing (top and middle-right, again very difficult to capture in pics) very similar to those of (any of) the K-boats. Though subdued and needing some augmentation/exaggeration to approximate the sheath-like casings of the Dutch K-boats, this would undoubtedly be far easier than scratchbuilding the casings wholesale (as on all other options thus far). And note the mold's forward taper to the knife-like bow (left) - including rising sheer-line, particularly suitable for the K-14 casing.

The similarities of both the above Soviet hulls to the respective Dutch hulls are striking to the point of seeming not to be coincidental. And, sure enough, there was at least one bona-fide, Dutch-designed-and-built Soviet sub - also molded in 400-scale by Encore:

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This is the hull of the Soviet S-class sub - looking like the German Type-IX's (far) more gracile sister (also significantly earlier) - note her prominently slab-sided casing (middle-right), as noted previously for both the Dutch O- and Type-IX subs. Aside from this, however, the hull has about zero else in common with either the Dutch O- or K-boats. Including at the bow (bottom), whose delicately flared-out prow looks like a finer, more graceful (and again, earlier) incarnation of the US Gato/Balao-class boats.

As for the real matches - the L- and D-class hulls, above - stay tuned for scaling/kitbashing data, and possibly also some more of those graphic-overlay conversion demonstrations, coming soon...

I have to do some more calcs/graphics and see exactly what these would/could scale out to. If about 1:350, that would be cool - but if either a K- or O-boat could (easily) come out at 1:500, then that might have to be a "must-do". (Regardless whether I do the 200-scale Accura bash, or not.)

Cheers,

-Matt

Dutch WWII Subs and the Accura SEP

Posted by Matty on May 12, 2013, 18:55:46, in reply to "DUTCH SUBS in WWII"Edited by board administrator May 13, 2013, 19:29:49

--Originally Posted 5/12/13--

In a Dutch shipyard on 8/15/38, the soon-to-be Polish submarine Sep, at left, swathed in scaffolding, is well along in construction, next to the just-begun Dutch O23 (center) and -24 (right).

As longtime ModelFleet visitors will know, I have lamented the utter desert of models of Dutch WWII naval subjects - most pointedly the subs, of which I still have seen not a one. Thus, it was with great excitement that I learned both that some Polish WWII subs were actually designed and built by the Dutch - and that model manufacturer Accura (or someone even more ancient - kit looks like an early Heller) released one of these, in styrene (who cares how crude or antiquated!), in 200-scale:

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For which I have Gus Hager to thank - THANK YOU, Gus! - for the Accura Sep, at left. Sep and her sister Orzel, the two (identical, AFAIK) Polish subs designed and built by the Dutch, were reputedly closest to - essentially variants of - the Dutch O19 class - the class immediately preceding the new construction seen in the 1938 pic, above.

However, Sep/Orzel did not bear as close a resemblance - at least, not on the outside, as depicted by my Accura model - to the late-'30s Dutch O-boats as much as to another, significantly earlier, vintage of Dutch boats: the K11- and K14 classes, shown at right. At top, the Accura mold, its two main pieces (halves) taped together, is compared from roughly the same angle as views of K12 (middle) and K17 (bottom). Disregarding the difference in the sails - superficial items, apparently of unique design on the Polish subs and in any case varying widely (over time) on the Dutch subs, as well - the biggest (visual) difference is seen in the top casings. Both classes of K-boats have a conformal, highly dished-in casing, forming a sheath over the pressure hull for the entire length of the deck, and extending clear down/out to the waterline. At the bow, the Accura mold exhibits features somewhat intermediate between K12's level, raised step and K17's strongly upward-curving sheer, reversing to a pronounced round-down, at the prow. Admittedly, seen from these angles and only above the waterline, the K-boats don't particularly seem to resemble the Accura model - though they are already notably closer than the subsequent O-boats (see below).

But it's aft that the "family resemblance" really becomes apparent:

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At left, the knife-like casing, aft - exposing more of the underlying pressure hull - reveals the essential resemblance between model and the real thing: K11 (upper-middle) and K12 (lower middle), the latter seen grounded off Sydney, Australia, shortly after the war.

Of course, it is the overall form of the hull - determining the fundamental resemblance (or lack thereof), as well as feasibility of bashing a model of one, into another - that is most clearly revealed by drydock photos. And at center, accordingly we can immediately see the resemblance, at the stern, between the Sep model and K15 - absent some bulging torpedo tubes (note on the mold plastic, crudely indicated in tandem), substantial sheathing over the propeller shaft and significantly different location of the rudder, further forward on the model. It is easy to visualized addition of the above, plus the dished jacket of the casing atop the model, to instantly produce a strong if not total resemblance to this K14 class, aft. At right, exactly the same is demonstrated (left side) for the K11 class, by comparison against a pic of K11 herself (top-left), in drydock late- or post-war. Note the good view of the rudder, right aft, as fitted (to both classes).

On the right-side, a bows-on comparison against K14 (now seen in late 1943) again suggests a strong similarity in hullform overall - and even in the round-down at the bow. However the deck can be seen to present another major difference - second only to the top casings, above - as the K-boat decks (again, for both classes) widen continuously until clearing the sail, outboard, while on Sep/Orzel the deck remains relatively narrow, flaring out only at the island, to go around it before again pinching abruptly back narrow, to continue aft.

Clearly, the matchup at the bow is not as obvious as at the stern - however we can determine that it is certainly in the ballpark:

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Photographed in drydock December 1943 (top), K15 reveals her bow (including U-boat-type forward planes!), at first glance perhaps looking rather different from the Accura mold (bottom) - however careful examination reveals that it is mainly just the profiles which differ, and that more fundamental similarities - especially regarding modelling/conversion - are actually in evidence. Observe the hull shape near the waterlines (level with the top of the upper torpedo tube - and also conveniently molded onto the Accura hull), and then visualize the model with the new top casing installed: the appearance there will become a very strong, if not perfect, match. Admittedly the "chin" of the Accura mold is much more upswept, and would need to be considerably augmented - or actually, I would probably just cut open and pivot downward the existing chin/keel, and plate-in the resultant void(s), in the area around the torpedo tubes. Likewise, the top-forward round-off would have to be greatly enhanced - again, I would do this more by cutting and rotating hull pieces, as part of the above, than by straight, brute grinding-down. The takeaway being that the forward pressure hulls, despite their differing profiles, of both taper (horizontally, from the beam) in a very similar way: gradually, with no bulging and/or dishing, straight out to their bows.

This is definitely not what we observe of the immediately pre-war classes of O-boats (reputedly closer-related to Sep and Orzel):

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At left, as O19 slides down the ways 9/22/38 (top), she reveals not a smooth, knife-like bow as above, but one with pronounced bulges, overlying a significant dishing. The bulges accommodate mainly the torpedo tubes, but significantly also something else (very likely a down-looking sonar), extending down to the chin. These are all underlain by a dishing caused by a more abrupt tapering of the pressure hull proper, just aft of the tubes. Exactly the same is observable - only better - in pics, at right, showing the O21-class boats O22 (top) and O25 (bottom), in drydock 4/2/40 and launching on 5/1/40, respectively.

Astern, as suggested at left (bottom) by a pic of O20, underway circa 1939, the O-boats do seem to have retained much the same appearance - and presumably, resemblance to Sep/Orzel - as the preceding K-boats, above. But note that, amidships, the O-boat hulls do not quite become cylindrical, but remain slightly flattened at the beam and especially towards the top, where they meet the casing. Clearly, these hulls were further removed/evolved from the Polish subs than were the K11- and -14 boats, and - especially combined with the very wide, flat casing-sides of the O-boats - made for a very different appearance.

Just to cover one more possibility, I searched out the following pic of a significantly earlier, (1-boat) class of O-boat:

O16, a true contemporary of the K-boats shown earlier, appears to have O-boat hull- and casing features - in detail - exactly the same as seen on the later classes of O-boats, above.

From a modelling point of view, admittedly the O-class casings would be far easier to scratchbuild the than those for the K-boats - however this advantage would seem (more than) offset by the other, integral and extensive mods to the pressure hull - and bow, in particular - indicated above. Moreover, the Accura Sep/Orzel mold does not appear the best foundation for an O-boat, which seems very likely could more profitably be provided by some combination of TypeIX Uboat, possibly TypeVII Uboat and/or even Gato fleet boat hull components.

Either way, the above Dutch subs - both K- and O-classes - spawned some fairly historic boats, including some operating out of Fremantle, Australia (as I personally, am most interested in). More on that, to come...