Interview Transcripts

Mary Rosenblum: Carmen Goldthwaite writes stories
about Texas--history and travel-- for western magazines and anthologies and is
a contributing writer for Latitudes & Attitudes on sailing topics. She
writes a statewide column, “Texas Dames,” and strings for the New York
Times. Earlier, her investigative reporting led to syndication with
Scripps-Howard News.
Carmen, welcome, we're so pleased to have you here this week! What an
impressive bio you have. So how did you get started? Did you write
for the papers first, and then get started with history and travel
writing? Or was it the other way around? Do tell us a bit about how
you got started.

Didou: Hi Carmen, Thanks for being here this week. I am
curious to find out how you started in general (how you broke into print) and
how you started your column in particular. Can you please explain more
about the column you write: how the idea came, how you found your magazines,
and what is your marketing strategy? Also, what can you advice us as far as
proposing a column to a newspaper or magazine? How can we start? Where do we
start?
Thank you so much!

Mary Rosenblum: So, Carmen, so tell us about getting
started in the newspapers. If you're just starting out, how do you get
the attention of an editor at your local paper? Do you have to be
employed by the paper, or do they take freelance submissions? Carmen Goldthwaite: Hi, guys. In the sense
of breaking in to the newspaper columns, today is both the "best of
times" and "worst of times." The best because downsized
staffs can no longer cover or feature all the news and topics of interest in
their circulation area. The worst because a lot of journalists no longer
with a salary are beseeching the same editors for assignments and/or
submissions. However, of these, many will not have the fortitude to last
more than one or two forays (rejections) in the freelance market. That,
then, makes room, particularly by now, for freelancers trained to submit, submit,
submit instead of sulk to have an edge.That said, let's look at what needs
covering in your community that may be neglected: Youth Sports nearly
always depends on non staff coverage. In larger markets that could
escalate to high school sports coverage. While this may sound depressing,
one of the areas that's growing in newspapers is the "obits" section,
be they paid or free. In large markets, this often means a full blown
profile, a feature, on someone in the community who just died. Not always
the prominent or infamous, but the regular joe and jane who lived and
contributed and because they did some segment of the community was better
off. Those "feature" obits are a good entree. A good way
to find them is to cozy up to the funeral director(s) in town, tell them you'd
like to interview friends and family of those who would make a good story (and
tell them what makes a good story--the Pee Wee League coach whose team members
now serve in the military; the Girl Scout leader whose kids went to college on
scholarships and credit her influence, etc.)

Mary Rosenblum: Carmen, that's really interesting and
insightful. I hadn't thought about the fact that salaried journalists haven't
developed the tough 'rejection' skin of us freelancers. See, folks,
there's a reason to get used to those rejections!
So the obits and youth sports are good entrees? I would never have
guessed that obits were something you could 'pitch' rather than get as an
assignment only. So how do you choose whom to contact if you want
to pitch a story? Where do you find the name?

Carmen Goldthwaite: If you're "pitching" an
obit, you're pitching a feature story on a person who has just died. The
Funeral home directors will know who ramrods that "desk" in a
newsroom.
For other stories--at this point in the game that's under significant
change--look on the masthead of the newspaper (where publishers, editors, etc.
are listed) and contact the editor in charge of sections such as:
business, home and family, features, sports, metro news, etc. Then
contact them directly.

Didou: What does it mean when newspapers have a link for
sending newstips? Is that like reporting news and how do you qualify to write
such a piece? For example, if I know a poet will be presenting at a local high
school and the newspapers have not mentioned that yet, how can I send an
informative piece?
Also, are newspapers open to freelancers as far as news and features? I have
the impression that they assign that to staff only.

Carmen Goldthwaite: Yes, newspapers are open, but more to
features than news. However, if you're in the vicinity where something's
happening, i.e., breaking news, text or email the appropriate
editor. That means plugging in their contact info ahead of time, just in
case. Or, there's always a phone call to assess interest in covering something.
For example, covering the poet I'd email what I know about the event and the
poet and close with, "could I interest you in a story?"
Be prepared to support why you're the person to do the job whether it's on the
scene at a news event or covering a planned event, i.e., you're there and/or
you know something. Probably at a news event you're going to be asked to
feed in your info while you and it are being validated or verified.
Accuracy, credibility, that's going to count the most.
Getting lined up with any publication generally means starting small, gaining
their confidence and then proceeding either with submittals or on
assignment. As mentioned, in today's market many freelancers are getting
assignments--from an out of town paper/media outlet or to help expand local
coverage during this shortened staff era.A tip line is just that. You've got
a tip on a story, the paper will check out it and you. Then build upon
your credibility with them by accuracy of reporting.

Didou: Thank you Carmen; I appreciate the thorough
explanation.

Newspapers,
news media are changing. Instead of the monolith print machine, they are becoming
conveyors of the news in multimedia--social media, radio, tv as well as print.

Carmen Goldthwaite: Catching their blogs, identifying
who's the "go to" blogger (may not be an editor) but will be some
reporter/writer live blogging from events to the newspaper's web page or to a
"content" department that then turns it in to copy for these various
formats.

If
blogging is an interest as an avenue to newspaper writing, then start following
a newspaper's web page...or twitter account...many are moving to tweets for the
"person on the scene" accounts then verifying later. Check out what
your local publication is doing and who that is, either blogging or tweeting
and make a connection. New Media is opening up a large landscape for
journalists; we just need to be nimble to craft our stories for the specific
platform (in what form the news/feature will be delivered)

Mary Rosenblum: Carmen, you write for the papers, and
you write travel and historical pieces. Can you speak to the difference
between journalism -- writing for the newspapers-- and writing an historical or
travel piece? What exactly is the dividing line here?

In
one sense, they are the same for journalism is nonfiction. That means
it's true. So journalism resides beneath the umbrella of nonfiction.Carmen Goldthwaite: Journalism, as most
readers and many writers see it, is the reporting of what's happened, where and
when, with the how and why of lesser interest. This form of journalism is
seen in breaking news media--radio, tv and Internet. Yet, a broader
function of journalism can be called, today, "narrative or creative
nonfiction." In this uubform of journalism the questions of how did
this happen, who is affected, and the inevitable "why? take precedence
because the news facts are already known. Therefore telling this true
story with the techniques of storytelling--a beginning, middle, end as opposed
to the inverted pyramid; a main character who faces crises, and a more fleshed
out setting of time and place--provides the reader a greater understanding of
the original news event.
Often this is revealed in the newspaper as an indepth feature story, as
investigative reporting. But just as often, this longer form of
storywriting--particularly today in the ad-shortened news columns--finds a home
in magazines and books. However, the aim is still to provide greater
understanding. In addition to the storytelling components, there must be
an emphasis on true facts--people, quotes, place, events, etc. As my
"silent mentor," Gay Talese calls it, narrative nonfiction is the
"literature of reality." This field is growing, yet as with
newer fields and news today, it's home sometimes seems to be on shifting sand
so the writer needs to be nimble in developing slants and angles for this
exciting storytelling venue.

Thanks
for continuing on with me to address the "historical and travel"
aspects of the question. When I write a newspaper column on one of my
"Texas Dames," I apply all the elements of storytelling to the column
that I can find with research--libraries, courthouses, archives and
interviews. Context is important with these because the community
newspapers that run the columns want to "see" the terrain,
"hear," the person, know what life was like in this woman's era as
well as a comparison with today, sometimes implied rather than stated.
When I write about an historical event or institution, or "icon" such
as the SteamBoat Yellowstone, that feature becomes the subject and I craft the
facts of that boat's adventures in the context of time and place, the steamship
being the character.
Depending on the magazine that's assigned the travel piece--what they want as
opposed to what I might prefer--I will write a story on a place, an icon, an
event usually in this narrative nonfiction style (my preference) or a more
chatty, conversational, essay style to invite readers to pinpoint the
"place" on an upcoming trip. Again, though, that's the editorial
choice that I determine by asking (because editors change) and by reading past
issues.

Mary Rosenblum: So, Carmen, can you speak a bit more
about the 'narrative nonfiction' versus 'essay' style? In essay style
you're essentially speaking directly to the readers?

Carmen Goldthwaite: Sure. Let's address the
differences of essay and narrative nonfiction.
That's a matter of topic and message. Essay generally is an expression of
one person's experience, opinion, etc. The writer wants to convey an
idea, an experience.
Narrative nonfiction, particularly in journalism, but rather universally does
not dwell in opinion and except in memoir in personal experience. In
narrative nonfiction a writer is digging out a story--researching,
interviewing, etc.--then pulling the story together in storytelling form.
Some memoir may qualify, if written in story form, but it's less opinion and
more of the writer examining a sliver of his or her life for some greater
understanding.

Let
me add a bit about journalism vs. nonfiction and their differences.
Writers may author pieces of varying degrees of opinion and fact and that is
nonfiction. Narrative nonfiction or as Gay Talese calls it, the
"literature of reality," will take this blend of fact, observation,
opinion, etc. and write a long story--memoir, history, biography, travel, etc.
Journalists subscribe to a code of ethics that requires seeking the truth,
verifying the truth, causing no undue harm, accountability, etc. That's
the job of the journalist. And then the storytelling journalist,
operating on that code of ethics takes the information gathered by him or
herself, or others, and writes the long story exploring the how and the why and
that's narrative journalism.

Mary Rosenblum: So, Carmen, this is the difference
between nonfiction and journalism that I grew up with, but what I hear today
from people in the journalism field is that it's more about the 'personal
angle' and I do seem to see that more often in the 'news' stories.
Do you feel that the line between objective journalism and narrative nonfiction
is blurring?

Carmen Goldthwaite: No, I don't see a blurring. In
fact, when I speak with editors--in a conference with several the last couple
of days--there may even be a sharper delineation today than there has been for
a number of years.
Yes, there's the new media or social media and blogs part of the journalism
horizon that did not exist very long ago. Much of that is written in
first person, present tense instead of third person past tense of most
journalism stories. If that's what you mean by personal, I guess so.
But the editors I've spoken with believe that there is a strong place for the
objective, news now type of story and that storytelling or narrative nonfiction
portrayal of news stories also has a distinctive place, yet for newspapers must
strive to remain objective.

One
more thought on this. In terms of the personal angle, that's been a part
of journalism since the Thirties at least: "don't tell a story about
man...tell a story about one man."
In fact, as one metro Executive Editor explained that in today's shrunken
budgets, he and his fellow editors will pool research for in depth stories, say
for all their company's papers in the state. Then each editor's
"team" will seek out an individual whose story reflects the case
that's being built and then each paper's team or storytelling writer will write
the local, in depth story, i.e., narrative nonfiction.

Mary Rosenblum: Lots of Long Ridge students and novice
writers in general want to break in to the nonfiction world. So what do
you see as the critical writing skills that an editor looks for when he/she
gets a query or submission from a new writer? What is going to help
you? What is going to earn you a quick rejection?

Carmen Goldthwaite: Of primary importance for newspapers
and magazines is accuracy of facts, names (spelling and titles). Any
question of accuracy equals a "black ball" for now and next.
Next is appropriateness for the newspaper or magazine, i.e., know their wants
and don't wants (the latter, if ignored, equals a "no".)
Targeting the publication's audience with slant and angle is key in this
consideration. And then, of course, a fascinating story, one that's been
untold, little told or you have an angle not previously explored.
Then, hook them with a strong lead. As one of my editor says, "get
my attention in the first six seconds or I don't read further," i.e., a
rejection.
"Write in strong active voice with few adjectives and no adverbs,"
says another editor of mine and "I'll read further because I know I'm
dealing with a writer."
Follow with strong and clear writing, smoothly transitioned to a strong
ending. The least editing a publication has to do, the more readily will
your story be accepted.Mary Rosenblum: In order for a new writer
to really understand what an editor is looking for and might have already
featured, that writer should study some previous issues of the magazine, I
would assume. What do you suggest? Reading a few back issues?
A year's worth? Any tips for how to research a new market effectively?

Carmen Goldthwaite: Here's what I do. Find out how
long the editor's been there 3 months or 13 years. (If a quick call to
the publication doesn't result in that info, then scan back year by year or
month by month. The reason is that when a new editor comes in, he or she
will be brought in to make some changes, large or small. Seeing the difference
from editor to editor helps me slot my story for the current editorial thinking
and practice.
Other than that, I usually read the last three months of a publication.
The exception would be if I'm pitching or writing a holiday story (any holiday),
I'll want to read two or three issues (therefore years) of that particular
holiday message.
'If a magazine doesn't list how often they'll run a treatment of a certain
subject, then I go to the library or periodical's index and see when they last
ran a story on "sailing in the San Juans" for example. Then the
time before. Often magazines have a 3-5 year limit on time to pass before
they're open to that subject again.

Another
critical skill, akin to gathering facts accurately is verifying them.
Being able to attribute cause and effect to someone who is in a position to
know. For example if you're writing a story about a major ice storm and
you're quoting the historic severity of it. GO beyond the accident
investigator on the highway to the U. S. weather bureau where reports are
listed and either research the date or ask someone who compiles the report, "which
is the worst?" "How do/did you determine? As in
"inches of glaze ice?" "duration of ice?" "wind"
"fog" etc. Then cite the U. S. Weather bureau (report or
personnel) and you have gathered more of the facts, verified them or chased
down inaccuracies or discrepancies and found out more about the story,
therefore producing a better story.
So...gathering and verifying require curiosity and diligence, a great
combination to show a prospective newspaper editor.

Mary Rosenblum: Good researching tips on back issues,
Carmen. They're a lot more specific than the 'read an entire year's worth
of issues' that I've heard before. And the hard research is indeed
impressive and should impress an editor . Doesn't the internet make that much
easier? I remember driving to the local medical school to go searching
through their private data base to find scientific stuff I needed. Any
tips for people on how to use the internet well?

Carmen Goldthwaite: Yes, the Internet makes finding the
info easier, but eliminates that wonderful filter, the Librarian, who's a
terrific guide, making short work of tons of material. But, at 3 a.m.,
the Internet works best. I'm still a Google first fan or Metacrawler,
even though Bing's coming on. the Reader's Periodical's Index, World Cat,
Books in Print are good guides.
For just general info and getting started, the U. S. census bureau, www.census. gov and the U.S.
Weather burea are great sites for everything from stats to determining the
weather you need for tension in a story.
Media sites I use a good bit are newslink.org and journaliststoolbox.com.
The 3 a.m. library is the internet Public Library--www.ipl.org
Or, the Librarian's Index: http:/lii.org & Internet Public Library (http://ipl.org).
Hope that helps with the research question.Mary Rosenblum: Carmen, thanks! You have
been a great guest, and I…all of us…really appreciate your time and expertise
here. Thank you so much for joining us!