One of my PCs: a male halfling Bard 10, is consistently managing around 40-ish perform checks. I'll try to give you a resume of his heroics and then my hope was you lot would help me, as his DM, mold the worlds reaction to his talents.

The character is travelling with an adventuring party, nationwide regarded as heroes, who saved a coastal village from a monster invasion.

He has helped said adventuring party stop a series of murders, thereby saving many lives, among others the mayor of a city-state.

He is the lord of a keep, and he and his adventuring friends are considered nobles of the land.

So far he has been very modest about his skills, never praising himself or making a fuss about being noble at all. Instead he merely sings, spins tales and dances, spreading happiness in taverns whereever he travels. He has never requested room, food or even payment for his services, but he does not turn it down when offered.

Now that you know, any inputs and advice you have for me in responding to this guy and his 40+ perform rolls, would really be appreciated.

well... like all big events it shall have multi effect:
the positive:
1. attract followers that will agree to sleep in the cold streets for a brief example of the god-like tunes
2. recieve the honor of playing for gods and kings - and get great offers for rewards for it.

the negetive:
1. gods of music or other mighty performances might try to harm and destroy the new star
2. a demon might want to kidnap him so he'll be just for his personal amuzmant.

No, the beetles! He could have a 1/day ability of summoning a crowd of screaming young halfling girls that either a) are used as a swarm for 1d4 rounds against an enemy or b) swoop him up and carry him away totally obscuring him from site.

The draw back is he would be instantly covered with kiss marks and his pockets got picked randomly of 1d4 items taken as momentos from his favorite fans!

Alternatively he can later find some of his belongings for sale on auction for ridiculous sums of money (way more than they are actually worth)

One of my first games in 3.5 a player pumped performance to the max and built her bard character around the "traveling performer" idea, with circumstantial bonuses (playing on an actual stage instead of a corner of a bar) plus her skill bonuses and a natural roll of a 20 she had a 40ish total. The dm rolled low on percentage dice and decided her god heard her playing so magnificently that in avatar form she came down to listen to the music. Afterwards the god gifted her blessed strings with minor magic on them.

If he is playing these god like tunes regularly, good or bad some higher power should take notice. Im more on the side of good things hapening to him though, hes not only playing his character right, hes not a prick about it either. Reward him

Well, here's another take: in order for "the world" to be suitably impressed by a 40 Perform check, they need to be able to *appreciate* a 40 Perform check.

Consider an analogy (and bear with me here, as I live in Atlanta so I'm using an Atlanta-orientd example): Let's say two people - one Joe Average, the other an experienced foodie and wine connoisseur - head to Restaurant Eugene, where they enjoy a brilliant, seven-course chef's menu with perfect wine pairings. The bill is $500 ($600 with gratuity). Our foodie totally understands that he's paying for the chef's innate talent and years of experience, local ingredients sourced this morning from organic farms, attentive, informed staff, an experienced, educated sommelier, and so on - he's *capable* of appreciating a $300/person dinner. Joe Average, on the other hand, is outraged - $300! That's thirty meals at Chili's or Applebee's! So stupid!

Most people are Joe Average.

The "world" probably doesn't react as fully appreciatively as one might expect from a 40 Perform check. They LIKE it (Joe Average liked his dinner at Eugene; he just doesn't understand why it's $300), but they aren't especially *moved* by it - they are unable to appreciate the full scale of the performer's brilliance (maybe they can "comprehend" up to a DC 20 performance). That said, there *will* be people who can - other performers, who might seek out so talented a person to learn from him, certain theater owners and people "in the biz", maybe a very cultivated aristocrat (and most of them aren't, either; they just follow fashion). In a fantasy setting, maybe certain kinds of supernatural or other beings take an interest in him (a mysterious fey sorceress, a dragon, and so on).

A good film example of this kind of thing is the 1980s film version of "Amadeus"; Salieri alone has the ability to understand Mozart's brilliance, but since he himself cannot *create* to so high a level, he's consumed by jealousy and uses his position to destroy Mozart; certainly, another mode of reaction to so elevated a performer!

David Haller has a good point. The average person might not be able to fully appreciate the difference between a Perform 20 and a Perform 40. Check out this story about a famous violinist who played in public to an underwhelming response.

However, since the bard in question is not charging for his performances and has an additional reputation, I'd assume he'd have a fair share of fans among the common people.

Having one or two powerful beings who can appreciate a 40 Perform take interest would be a very good idea.

Like Joegoat, I wouldn't cause him to much trouble, though. Inconvenient fans or a rival is one thing, and it could be fun making him choose between two potential patrons without offending one of them, but you want the character to feel like his freely-shared performances are bringing him more benefits than trouble. Having powerful beings try to do him serious harm is probably going too far.

Have you ever read "Soul Music" by Terry Pratchett? It covers the introduction of rock music to a magical world.

Spoiler:

Beatlemania follows. Other people try to pick up his signature instrument and try to play it themselves, creating a mini-boom for cheap guitars. The local music guild attempts to have him offed. Wizards trap his sound in boxes so that it can be replayed later. It also has a lingering effect on those magically inclined.

At any rate, he should encounter an agent at the very least. A slimy agent to attempt to corrupt him. Could even be a devil in disguise. Convince him he's not getting his money's worth for his singing.

I'd say that The Name of the Wind and it's sequel The Wiseman's Fear would provide brilliant ideas for dealing with this. Kvothe is an incredible litigation but cannot find a patron because of his enmity with a powerful noble. Creating a musical competition adventure would be great, where the other players need to prevent sabotage, etc.

Golden Fiddle: 1/day you may play the Golden Fiddle to summon Chuck Norris for 1 round to Roundhouse kick every enemy to the face with his +5 holy, unholy, lawful, chaotic, flaming, frost, distance, returning, brilliant, vorpal, shocking, bane (everything except and including Chuck Norris) Foot of Awesome Awesomeness. If stuck by kick (Chuck get +100 to attack roll and ALWAYS rolls a natural 20) the enemy must Fort save (with a -1000000 modifier) to save v Death. They cannot be resurrected in any way, shape, or form period. Their essence is utterly destroyed and even their memory is wiped from the mind of everyone and everything everywhere forever. The only person who will remember them is Chuck Norris, who will probably forget them anyway.

As a bard, this thread gives me the shivers and almost makes me want to skip the taverns in the evenings.

Why are there so many suggestions that have negative consequence? Some of these suggestions remind me of some Sunday morning cartoon villains, where say someone who has a really spectacular aptitude for climbing (+30 nearly always) goes to try and save a damsel tied to the edge of a cliff when a really short dastardly villain with a z-styled mustache steps out and says "myaaa, think you can just climb up and save her ey?" and then shoots a flaming arrow at the wall and sets the entire thing ablaze.

He probably comes with a dog that laughs afterwards.

I don't see why there's so much ... evil stored in the world. For those of you who are in the music world, at least from my experience it's not cut-throat when you're treating things as an enjoyable past time.

Here's what I see:

He's not demanding money, but takes it when offered
He's not trying to bolster fame via requesting taverns recognize talent
He's in it for the fact that he's got an investment in a talent and wants to roll it.

So as a DM, what are YOU trying to do with it?

Do you want to challenge him?

Then make it something of a story, The city can be inspired by both his generosity and skill that it builds an amphitheater of some sort and invites the bard, as an honored guest, to perform in a competition among some more recognized names. This gives you the opportunity to introduce legends (!) of lore, as well as invite nobility to properly see and contribute to the story and his fame. Add a prize, a worthy prize of a bard, to entice and reward good work. Add a villain if you like, but make this something that the rest of the party can see as bodyguards to help defend their team mate. That should show your team that they're willing to support your bard, and your bard see value in the team which I'm sure is there but recognizes that they support him for what he does, and who he is. This challenges his high score, but doesn't penalize him (he might lose the reward, but i'm sure you could twist it so that the reward is something off the high-end of the chart and if he loses (or someone steals the prize) the nobles and legends recognize him for all that he has done and give him (and the party) something for his and their talents.

Or he could turn it down. Who knows.

Do you want to reward him for using a skill he is proficient in?

I like the idea of an underling interested in becoming a student. This is just a treasure trove of story. The character already isn't asking for money, so he's not in it for wealth. Not to mention, you don't want people going over their global wealth or whatever it is. But a student, an underling, gives you potential to make his wealth of lore rather than of gold. This student, NOT interfering with his actual time and skills, could learn under him and bring a personal bond to a person and the place he is residing. Which opens up a whole realm of possibilities. Though to be honest now that I give it a good thought, I'm not sure how without causing mischief.

I also like the idea that other bards would speak of his name and his tales and his travels around other cities. Where they travel, at the very least he should be known.

What does he want?

Perhaps as a DM you ask him OOC if he wants something to be of his skill. If he literally tells you he's just rolling to roll, reward him by:

this is mostly me just being horribly contrary, don't take it too seriously.

KHShadowrunner wrote:

As a bard, this thread gives me the shivers and almost makes me want to skip the taverns in the evenings.

Why are there so many suggestions that have negative consequence? Some of these suggestions remind me of some Sunday morning cartoon villains, where say someone who has a really spectacular aptitude for climbing (+30 nearly always) goes to try and save a damsel tied to the edge of a cliff when a really short dastardly villain with a z-styled mustache steps out and says "myaaa, think you can just climb up and save her ey?" and then shoots a flaming arrow at the wall and sets the entire thing ablaze.

He probably comes with a dog that laughs afterwards.

I don't see why there's so much ... evil stored in the world. For those of you who are in the music world, at least from my experience it's not cut-throat when you're treating things as an enjoyable past time.

well, because it is a cut-throat world--not everyone's all CG-LG. people will try to ruin each other over less, in fact. people get jealous of talent (or feel that they have talent, but aren't receiving the recognition they so *rightly* deserve, because you're stealing it all), it's just a thing that happens. a person may feel cheated because a significant other is apparently caring more about some hotshot musical star then they are about them.

take a look at, say, justin beiber (elvis, MJ, the beatles, mozart, anyone would do fine). his fanbase is absolutely rabid--they will throw their money away, ruin their lives, physically harm others for merely the thought of someone insulting their favorite star. that says nothing about the personality of said star--its just the people who are drawn to them from their skills/looks/whathaveyou.

crazy stalkers, critics who want to garner attention by tearing down so big a character, outraged families over a member's excess (fanatics), it goes on. people are terrible, yo.

now, im not saying the guy is gonna be walking down the street and tripping over people who hate him--quite the opposite in fact, those people are in the great minority. most people are just normal people who live normal lives, and while they enjoy the show, they're not gonna go smash some dude for not liking it (usually anyway).

KHShadowrunner wrote:

Here's what I see:

He's not demanding money, but takes it when offered

my earlier note on jealous people.

normal person: "oh look at him he's so humble. what a great guy."
small minority: "i bust my back every day trying to make that much, and he doesn't even care."

and yet he (the bard) continues to draw crowds for his great performances. simply being exemplary can increase your fame without you trying.

Quote:

He's in it for the fact that he's got an investment in a talent and wants to roll it.

which is a great outlook on it, actually. taking it too seriously is how you give youself an annuerism or find yourself doing cocaine out of a hooker's bellybutton. other people on the other hand take their talents very seriously, and/or think he's being wasteful of his talent.

normal person: "wow this guy's really good. he should be playing for the world, not some seedy bar."
small minority: "i had a good gig going in this town, and this kid's come and ruined it! he took all my crowds, and everyone who's left wants me to play for free now. must be nice being good enough to live on charity."

I accept that there may be interest in negative consequence. But only under certain circumstances.

I'll never try to relate to RL, because it's dangerous to do so. As an example: The JB example. How many people have -actually- gone out of their way to either completely ruin his life and-or threaten to end it? With actual negative action to him? It's minimalist at best, and that's in this day and age where you literally can spread news around the world in minutes.

Sure, there can be some sour apples out there in the world. But knowing the bard he would see this poor sod, invite him onto the stage to play with him, encourage him to do his best, and give his proceeds to get the lad a better instrument or more lessons and become something more.

What I guess I'm getting at is:

If you're going to do this, you should do it broad. If the fighter has shown ridiculous ability to beat AC, the next time they get into a major fight the enemy should say "Oh s++#, I've seen and heard of this guy before", and immediately don something with a crap ton more AC.

Or if the wizard is reknown for dispelling magic, a trapper would recognize him coming and put down like.. 20 traps to burn through his dispels, and THEN use magic abilities so that they can't be stopped.

Or the crafter who made their fancy composite bow should have someone steal their materials because they think that this crafter is the god of crafting its self. Or the shop owner to double the price of all items in the store because the crafter "clearly" saw his composite longbow and decided hell, they'll save half the money and make it themselves. I mean, a business has to keep running.

There could also be the jealous people - the husbands/wives of commoners who have fallen in love with this bard's music. Maybe some of them would take steps to silence this young upstart? Don't forget other (less talented, jealous) bards. Maybe they have connections with dangerous people and don't like all the attention that this bard is getting.

I don't see anything particularly viral about consistently performing extremely well. Sure, he'll affect those who see/hear such performances, and some of those may tell others, but unless those others also experience the bard's performances the word of mouth will stop there. He'll ultimately be no more famous in his lifetime than any other bard. It won't be until long after his death, as his works continue to spread, eventually into the hands of someone who is truly inspired by them to share them with all, in the composer's name, that this bard will have any true notoriety.

Unless of course he's an attention hog who laps up praise and fortune from those he entertains. Doesn't seem to be the case here though.

From a game mechanics perspective, what feats and skills do you push to be a great performer, composer, and musician? What ways exist to make your check truly over the top? Are Bards the best at this, not counting the magic aspect?

pretty much everything but that composite longbow bit would be an example of "realistic world and intelligent DM".

if you have a reputation amongst your enemies, of course they're going to exploit it. why wouldn't they?

This isn't a matter of your enemies exploiting your reputation, it's getting new enemies because of your reputation. Would you suggest that a character who had a talent for being very accurate, or who was a great crafter or counterspeller, should attract new enemies by virtue of this talent?

If any PC talent attracts the occasional jealousy or crazy rival, that's fine. For example, I'm currently in a light game where a powerful extraplanar creature has decided he wants to steal my bard's vocal cords as a trophy. But this is just after the ranger attracted the attention of a jealous mob boss who prided himself in his archery, so it's fair enough (and after helping the ranger with his mob boss, I'm enjoying my own little plot hook). I think KHShadowrunner is worried that this is a case of disproportionately attacking the bard.

And I still think that in general even if you do throw in the occasional downside to PC fame, the upsides should at least match if not outweigh the downsides. In my group, fame is typically seen as an extra reward for doing heroic things, not a hazard.

This whole thing reminds me of Amadeus, in which Mozart gained greater popularity with the common crowd than he did the nobility.

Perhaps challenge him to play before nobility and possibly earn an honorary title, but with great fame comes a price. Maybe not necessarily stalkers or the jilted husbands of crazy wives, but perhaps rivals in the field.

Let him enjoy some positive attention, then have an Evil Outside type decide he wants the bard for his court. Maybe he'll send minions to track him down and request he serve, then escalate to trying to kidnap him. Really turn the heat up, so that in the end the Bard has to start wearing a disguie and tries to keep a low profile

I guess if he were into Oratory he could make Speeches at +3 to the above using the Voice of the Sibyl. But assuming not, that all comes down to a perform check of d20 + X + 30, where X is any bonus from spells, magic items, and gear. Not bad. Is there a way for bards to take 10 on Perform checks?

Anyway, thats pretty cool.

Are there any other wacky prestige classes or archetypes that could push it higher? Either a flat bonus or a scaling one (such as how a Diviner gets lvl/2 to initiative checks)?

This whole thing reminds me of Amadeus, in which Mozart gained greater popularity with the common crowd than he did the nobility.

Perhaps challenge him to play before nobility and possibly earn an honorary title, but with great fame comes a price. Maybe not necessarily stalkers or the jilted husbands of crazy wives, but perhaps rivals in the field.

Just a note to all you who are worried about picking on people for their skills and fame:

It is not about picking on them, I think. It is about using their character, and the choices they made building them, to make the story grow. While it is fun for people in the town to whistle your tunes even if they do not know your face, it is much cooler to have the plot for an adventure (or a drawn out plot over many adventures) focus around you because you are doing well.

Most people have negative ideas (as is trying to take something away, not as in bad) because that is a strong motivator for plot. However, the positive ideas (adding something to the character) can be a powerful motivator too. Who wouldn't want to perform for Gods?

In terms of keeping it real, yes, fame brings rivals, and rivals can vary on the crazy scale. You can have friendly rivals, professional rivals, or rivals who are bitter enemies. Again, lots of room for development!

Just a note to all you who are worried about picking on people for their skills and fame:

It is not about picking on them, I think. It is about using their character, and the choices they made building them, to make the story grow. While it is fun for people in the town to whistle your tunes even if they do not know your face, it is much cooler to have the plot for an adventure (or a drawn out plot over many adventures) focus around you because you are doing well.

Most people have negative ideas (as is trying to take something away, not as in bad) because that is a strong motivator for plot. However, the positive ideas (adding something to the character) can be a powerful motivator too. Who wouldn't want to perform for Gods?

In terms of keeping it real, yes, fame brings rivals, and rivals can vary on the crazy scale. You can have friendly rivals, professional rivals, or rivals who are bitter enemies. Again, lots of room for development!

That's fine and like I said, I can see the need for it or at least from a story perspective it happening. But it really does sound like punishment for being -too- good at a skill. I could be wrong, but I can't think of any other skill where you actually get a boon for rolling too high.

Imagine if every time you rolled a critical and hit, you got to do the damage, but because of this every monster on the field currently saw you make the clean swing and are now forced to focus fire on that one character. In almost all situations this could be extraordinary.

I think someone else homed it right. I'm fine with some story, but there needs to be a more-than-right reward and it needs to inspire the bard to continue doing what he does.

For instance:

If I pick up an obsessed follower, he hires 9 body guards to assault me when I next approach the tavern and as reward I get 5 gold? Maybe a pair of heavy boots (these are body guards) that are magical but NOT what a bard can wear, or a pan-pipe when i'm rolling 40's in oratory skills, I'm just left with a sour taste.

Worse yet. If this happens more than once, or if the fight is dangerous enough even once, I do not warrant even the max gold (3d6?) being worth this unless I wanted some weird form of "random encounter" to occur. I'd just put my skills to rest and get on with the main plot or the rest of the adventure, effectively wasting all those skills (save for performances in combat).

The goal is to reward. Reward in story, and reward in value. It's to encourage, encourage to continue to hone and continue to perform.

If every other time I go out to play I get some psycho trying to take me out, I'm packing up my services and sticking to acrobatics.

I guess if he were into Oratory he could make Speeches at +3 to the above using the Voice of the Sibyl. But assuming not, that all comes down to a perform check of d20 + X + 30, where X is any bonus from spells, magic items, and gear. Not bad. Is there a way for bards to take 10 on Perform checks?

Anyway, thats pretty cool.

Are there any other wacky prestige classes or archetypes that could push it higher? Either a flat bonus or a scaling one (such as how a Diviner gets lvl/2 to initiative checks)?

Imagine if every time you rolled a critical and hit, you got to do the damage, but because of this every monster on the field currently saw you make the clean swing and are now forced to focus fire on that one character. In almost all situations this could be extraordinary.

... that's pretty much how all intelligent monsters should probably act. "This guy's the most dangerous! Focus on him! Block off his escape!" Whether that person is the crit-sweeping fighter, the mage ripping apart reality around them, or the rogue cutting out everybody's spleens, a smart opponent SHOULD focus on removing the biggest threat.

The question is whether or not the GM is ONLY throwing those kinds of tactics EVERY TIME, and not sparsing them in with some dumb brutes, some overconfident mages, some arrogant dragons, and/or some diabolical masterminds who are deluded into their own perceived invincibility.