All kidding aside, so long as the target is within the flight envelope of the mortar round, it's a no-brainer. With a little help, I could probably kludge together something like that for my mortar, but it would be, well, kludge-y. I think I could fit the electronics necessary into a 14 oz size tin can, which is what I shoot out of it. Generally, though, the payload is cement.

They need to develop some kind of rocket system that just sits at a home base somewhere, surrounded by yellow tape saying "Do not approach". Why the yellow tape? Because out in the field, within say... a 40 mile circle around the rockets, are a bunch of Army guys with little computer things and any time those army guys need to blow something up, they just punch in the target coordinates on their little computer, and that distant, remote rocket thing launches a rocket to blow it up.

No more calling someone to drop a bomb or lob a shell and then waiting for the result. They've got their own personal rocket butler, just waiting to be called up.

Was it high, was it low, Where the hell did that one go?As those Caissons go rolling along!Was it left, was it right, Now we won't get home tonightAnd those Caissons go rolling along!Then it's hi, hi, hee, In the field artilleryShout out your numbers loud and strong,Where'er you go, You will always knowThat those Caissons go rolling along!

pudding7:They need to develop some kind of rocket system that just sits at a home base somewhere, surrounded by yellow tape saying "Do not approach". Why the yellow tape? Because out in the field, within say... a 40 mile circle around the rockets, are a bunch of Army guys with little computer things and any time those army guys need to blow something up, they just punch in the target coordinates on their little computer, and that distant, remote rocket thing launches a rocket to blow it up.

No more calling someone to drop a bomb or lob a shell and then waiting for the result. They've got their own personal rocket butler, just waiting to be called up.

pudding7:They need to develop some kind of rocket system that just sits at a home base somewhere, surrounded by yellow tape saying "Do not approach". Why the yellow tape? Because out in the field, within say... a 40 mile circle around the rockets, are a bunch of Army guys with little computer things and any time those army guys need to blow something up, they just punch in the target coordinates on their little computer, and that distant, remote rocket thing launches a rocket to blow it up.

No more calling someone to drop a bomb or lob a shell and then waiting for the result. They've got their own personal rocket butler, just waiting to be called up.

All kidding aside, so long as the target is within the flight envelope of the mortar round, it's a no-brainer. With a little help, I could probably kludge together something like that for my mortar, but it would be, well, kludge-y. I think I could fit the electronics necessary into a 14 oz size tin can, which is what I shoot out of it. Generally, though, the payload is cement.

It's cool in that you could pre-program in a bunch of GPS coords and quickly drop fire on them. If you figure the guys ambushing your base are always hiding along ridgeline X, just get the coords and then respond quickly when you take fire from that area. The issue is if collateral damage are that big of an issue, odds are you aren't firing at the target sight unseen. You have to have at least one guy with eyes on the spot you're going to hit. That guy can just drop a laser on it and then call for Mr. Reaper Drone. Or he employ a recoiless rifle/anti tank missile. It is admittedly quicker (and you can fire from a position that isn't exposed) just to have him look, confirm the target is clear and then employ the mortar, but I wonder about the bang for the buck here.

pudding7:They need to develop some kind of rocket system that just sits at a home base somewhere, surrounded by yellow tape saying "Do not approach". Why the yellow tape? Because out in the field, within say... a 40 mile circle around the rockets, are a bunch of Army guys with little computer things and any time those army guys need to blow something up, they just punch in the target coordinates on their little computer, and that distant, remote rocket thing launches a rocket to blow it up.

No more calling someone to drop a bomb or lob a shell and then waiting for the result. They've got their own personal rocket butler, just waiting to be called up.

IMO that's a big part of the interest in scramjets (very very fast) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scramjet. A spy satellite over Afganistan needs a building leveled, the operator sets some coordinates, then hits Ctrl-L and a scramjet powered cruise missile takes off from a corn field in Iowa and is on target in 30min.. or something like that. The point is to take out a target anywhere on the globe in minutes without the political flack of an ICBM launch.

Is this even needed? Our mortars are pretty durn accurate already.CSB:Buddy of mine got back from his first tour of Iraq several years ago with a laptop full of videos. One was from a captured insurgent camera. The insurgents had placed the camera about 100 yards from a mortar they aimed at a US base. Mortar was on a timer or something, so no one was there for the response.Mortar fires. Within 30 seconds, 6 US mortar rounds are placed within 10 yards of the fired mortar. He said that the base had an automatic return fire system.I'm assuming it ran off boring old radar and math.

DAR:GPS guided munitions are great till the first shot of a major war and your opponent takes out the entire GPS platform up there in space

I do not know of anyone that has the ability to shoot down a satellite in the geosync orbit. I think the two sats that were shot down were at considerably lower orbits, as in 100/th closer than a geosync.

Saiga410:DAR: GPS guided munitions are great till the first shot of a major war and your opponent takes out the entire GPS platform up there in space

I do not know of anyone that has the ability to shoot down a satellite in the geosync orbit. I think the two sats that were shot down were at considerably lower orbits, as in 100/th closer than a geosync.

GPS satellites are not in geostationary orbit, but you make a good point. It's hard to shoot down a satellite.

Saiga410:DAR: GPS guided munitions are great till the first shot of a major war and your opponent takes out the entire GPS platform up there in space

I do not know of anyone that has the ability to shoot down a satellite in the geosync orbit. I think the two sats that were shot down were at considerably lower orbits, as in 100/th closer than a geosync.

You don't have to take the satellites out you just have to broadcast something stringer and you can render it useless in a localized area. As was pointed out though in this thread by virtue of emitting a more powerful signal you are effectively shinning a big bright light saying here I am!

Saiga410:DAR: GPS guided munitions are great till the first shot of a major war and your opponent takes out the entire GPS platform up there in space

I do not know of anyone that has the ability to shoot down a satellite in the geosync orbit. I think the two sats that were shot down were at considerably lower orbits, as in 100/th closer than a geosync.

I should expand on what I said earlier... yes, they're up there with the geostationary satellites, but they drift very, very, very slowly across the sky

maxximillian:Saiga410: DAR: GPS guided munitions are great till the first shot of a major war and your opponent takes out the entire GPS platform up there in space

I do not know of anyone that has the ability to shoot down a satellite in the geosync orbit. I think the two sats that were shot down were at considerably lower orbits, as in 100/th closer than a geosync.

You don't have to take the satellites out you just have to broadcast something stringer and you can render it useless in a localized area. As was pointed out though in this thread by virtue of emitting a more powerful signal you are effectively shinning a big bright light saying here I am!

This.

In Iraq, they did try jamming the GPS signals. Instead of using 100s or 1000s of low-power jammers, they used a handful of very high power jammers. It was like using a big neon sign saying "HERE BE EVILDOERS"

Smoky Dragon Dish:maxximillian: Saiga410: DAR: GPS guided munitions are great till the first shot of a major war and your opponent takes out the entire GPS platform up there in space

I do not know of anyone that has the ability to shoot down a satellite in the geosync orbit. I think the two sats that were shot down were at considerably lower orbits, as in 100/th closer than a geosync.

You don't have to take the satellites out you just have to broadcast something stringer and you can render it useless in a localized area. As was pointed out though in this thread by virtue of emitting a more powerful signal you are effectively shinning a big bright light saying here I am!

This.

In Iraq, they did try jamming the GPS signals. Instead of using 100s or 1000s of low-power jammers, they used a handful of very high power jammers. It was like using a big neon sign saying "HERE BE EVILDOERS"

Saiga410:DAR: GPS guided munitions are great till the first shot of a major war and your opponent takes out the entire GPS platform up there in space

I do not know of anyone that has the ability to shoot down a satellite in the geosync orbit. I think the two sats that were shot down were at considerably lower orbits, as in 100/th closer than a geosync.

You don't have to take the satellites out you just have to broadcast something stringer and you can render it useless in a localized area. As was pointed out though in this thread by virtue of emitting a more powerful signal you are effectively shinning a big bright light saying here I am!

Exactly and if you need pin point precision to limit colateral damage it doesn't matter if they spread it out and use 1000's you just take out the ones in your area of operations and now you can put a mortar right where you need it.

maxximillian:Smoky Dragon Dish: maxximillian: Saiga410: DAR: GPS guided munitions are great till the first shot of a major war and your opponent takes out the entire GPS platform up there in space

I do not know of anyone that has the ability to shoot down a satellite in the geosync orbit. I think the two sats that were shot down were at considerably lower orbits, as in 100/th closer than a geosync.

You don't have to take the satellites out you just have to broadcast something stringer and you can render it useless in a localized area. As was pointed out though in this thread by virtue of emitting a more powerful signal you are effectively shinning a big bright light saying here I am!

This.

In Iraq, they did try jamming the GPS signals. Instead of using 100s or 1000s of low-power jammers, they used a handful of very high power jammers. It was like using a big neon sign saying "HERE BE EVILDOERS"

Saiga410: DAR: GPS guided munitions are great till the first shot of a major war and your opponent takes out the entire GPS platform up there in space

I do not know of anyone that has the ability to shoot down a satellite in the geosync orbit. I think the two sats that were shot down were at considerably lower orbits, as in 100/th closer than a geosync.

You don't have to take the satellites out you just have to broadcast something stringer and you can render it useless in a localized area. As was pointed out though in this thread by virtue of emitting a more powerful signal you are effectively shinning a big bright light saying here I am!

Exactly and if you need pin point precision to limit colateral damage it doesn't matter if they spread it out and use 1000's you just take out the ones in your area of operations and now you can put a mortar right where you need it.

If you're using, say, 1000 jamming devices in a small area, like a small city, all of which are producing, say, wide-band white noise, it makes things a lot harder to pinpoint. It's harder to triangulate on a specific source.

My rounds shuttle-cock: They are cans half-full of cement. A heavy nose, and an empty back end open to the air, much like a shotgun slug. They aren't spin stabilized.

Normal modern mortar rounds are fin-stabilized. They don't spin either.

It did just occur to me that building a laser-guided round for my mortar would be easier: A simple quadrature detector and some op-amps like the old Sidewinder missile would work, with actuators to extend and retract "flaps" at the rear of the projectile . About 20 years ago, a guy named George Gassaway made what was a sun-targeting scale rocket model of a Sidewinder missile using a similar principle. You'd just use more sensitive detectors tuned to whatever laser frequency you wanted to use instead of photocells. Fins wouldn't actuate until the detector "saw" the laser, and even if the projectile is rotating, the system will correct for that (provided it's not rotating too fast).

Interesting idea, though it would be a major trick to build something like that out of common materials, that would survive the shock of being shot out of a mortar. It's one thing to build something like that for a large model rocket with fairly gentle acceleration.

Just to be clear, this is a gendankenexperiment. I have no intention of building such a device, nor do I have the resources or technical skills.

All kidding aside, so long as the target is within the flight envelope of the mortar round, it's a no-brainer. With a little help, I could probably kludge together something like that for my mortar, but it would be, well, kludge-y. I think I could fit the electronics necessary into a 14 oz size tin can, which is what I shoot out of it. Generally, though, the payload is cement.

Can you do it out to 5 kilometers? Can you do it on the first try? Can you do it without line-of-sight?

Saiga410:I do not know of anyone that has the ability to shoot down a satellite in the geosync orbit. I think the two sats that were shot down were at considerably lower orbits, as in 100/th closer than a geosync.

I'm sure your correct as far as whats public knowledge but lets face it, the first shots of the next major war will be "heard" in space. Think EMP weapon in orbit designed to take our satellites & ground based equipment or something like it.

Smoky Dragon Dish:Saiga410: DAR: GPS guided munitions are great till the first shot of a major war and your opponent takes out the entire GPS platform up there in space

I do not know of anyone that has the ability to shoot down a satellite in the geosync orbit. I think the two sats that were shot down were at considerably lower orbits, as in 100/th closer than a geosync.

GPS satellites are not in geostationary orbit, but you make a good point. It's hard to shoot down a satellite.

Never mind that almost every military in the world currently relies on the US GPS network, How are their guys going to find their way without the GPS birds?

Which is also why those who have the lift capability are working hard on their own systems. (EU, China, India, etc.)

My rounds shuttle-cock: They are cans half-full of cement. A heavy nose, and an empty back end open to the air, much like a shotgun slug. They aren't spin stabilized.

Normal modern mortar rounds are fin-stabilized. They don't spin either.

It did just occur to me that building a laser-guided round for my mortar would be easier: A simple quadrature detector and some op-amps like the old Sidewinder missile would work, with actuators to extend and retract "flaps" at the rear of the projectile . About 20 years ago, a guy named George Gassaway made what was a sun-targeting scale rocket model of a Sidewinder missile using a similar principle. You'd just use more sensitive detectors tuned to whatever laser frequency you wanted to use instead of photocells. Fins wouldn't actuate until the detector "saw" the laser, and even if the projectile is rotating, the system will correct for that (provided it's not rotating too fast).

Interesting idea, though it would be a major trick to build something like that out of common materials, that would survive the shock of being shot out of a mortar. It's one thing to build something like that for a large model rocket with fairly gentle acceleration.

Just to be clear, this is a gendankenexperiment. I have no intention of building such a device, nor do I have the resources or technical skills.

I'm talking about the Army's round. :-) Also, the 4 canards don't operate indepentently from one another, I dont think. The whole head pivots. I think the rear canards are just for stability.

Would you guide on the upward trajectory, or just the downward trajectory? JK

DAR:Think EMP weapon in orbit designed to take our satellites & ground based equipment or something like it.

You're over-thinking your space weapons. A pipe bomb with a couple handfuls of roofing nails is enough to effectively disable a satellite. At the speeds involved, a chunk of metal the size of a dime will leave an impact hole the size of a pineapple. A few dozen of these "shrapnel bombs" lobbed up into LEO or even into the higher orbits would cripple the satellite networks. It is very cheap to destroy space-based equipment, as long as you don't care about collateral damage.

My rounds shuttle-cock: They are cans half-full of cement. A heavy nose, and an empty back end open to the air, much like a shotgun slug. They aren't spin stabilized.

Normal modern mortar rounds are fin-stabilized. They don't spin either.

It did just occur to me that building a laser-guided round for my mortar would be easier: A simple quadrature detector and some op-amps like the old Sidewinder missile would work, with actuators to extend and retract "flaps" at the rear of the projectile . About 20 years ago, a guy named George Gassaway made what was a sun-targeting scale rocket model of a Sidewinder missile using a similar principle. You'd just use more sensitive detectors tuned to whatever laser frequency you wanted to use instead of photocells. Fins wouldn't actuate until the detector "saw" the laser, and even if the projectile is rotating, the system will correct for that (provided it's not rotating too fast).

Interesting idea, though it would be a major trick to build something like that out of common materials, that would survive the shock of being shot out of a mortar. It's one thing to build something like that for a large model rocket with fairly gentle acceleration.

Just to be clear, this is a gendankenexperiment. I have no intention of building such a device, nor do I have the resources or technical skills.

Duh, you're right about the mortar spinning. I just checked. It's not like I work on the thing. ;-)

DAR:Saiga410: I do not know of anyone that has the ability to shoot down a satellite in the geosync orbit. I think the two sats that were shot down were at considerably lower orbits, as in 100/th closer than a geosync.

I'm sure your correct as far as whats public knowledge but lets face it, the first shots of the next major war will be "heard" in space. Think EMP weapon in orbit designed to take our satellites & ground based equipment or something like it.

All stamped Top Secret right now and most likely written in Chinese.

It is highly improbable that there will ever be another major war again.

wmoonfox:DAR: Think EMP weapon in orbit designed to take our satellites & ground based equipment or something like it.

You're over-thinking your space weapons. A pipe bomb with a couple handfuls of roofing nails is enough to effectively disable a satellite. At the speeds involved, a chunk of metal the size of a dime will leave an impact hole the size of a pineapple. A few dozen of these "shrapnel bombs" lobbed up into LEO or even into the higher orbits would cripple the satellite networks. It is very cheap to destroy space-based equipment, as long as you don't care about collateral damage.

GPS satellites orbit in Medium Earth Orbit. About 21,000 km up. I'm not saying you're wrong, but it's a tall order for the current "Evildoers" to accomplish.

Smoky Dragon Dish:GPS satellites orbit in Medium Earth Orbit. About 21,000 km up. I'm not saying you're wrong, but it's a tall order for the current "Evildoers" to accomplish.

Well, I didn't mean to suggest that some sand people with a model rocket hobby could accomplish this -- only that it's a lot easier than popping nukes in space. Anyone with the ability to carry a payload into the required orbital plane can quite easily and cheaply destroy satellites.

Smoky Dragon Dish:maxximillian: Smoky Dragon Dish: maxximillian: Saiga410: DAR: GPS guided munitions are great till the first shot of a major war and your opponent takes out the entire GPS platform up there in space

I do not know of anyone that has the ability to shoot down a satellite in the geosync orbit. I think the two sats that were shot down were at considerably lower orbits, as in 100/th closer than a geosync.

You don't have to take the satellites out you just have to broadcast something stringer and you can render it useless in a localized area. As was pointed out though in this thread by virtue of emitting a more powerful signal you are effectively shinning a big bright light saying here I am!

This.

In Iraq, they did try jamming the GPS signals. Instead of using 100s or 1000s of low-power jammers, they used a handful of very high power jammers. It was like using a big neon sign saying "HERE BE EVILDOERS"

Saiga410: DAR: GPS guided munitions are great till the first shot of a major war and your opponent takes out the entire GPS platform up there in space

I do not know of anyone that has the ability to shoot down a satellite in the geosync orbit. I think the two sats that were shot down were at considerably lower orbits, as in 100/th closer than a geosync.

You don't have to take the satellites out you just have to broadcast something stringer and you can render it useless in a localized area. As was pointed out though in this thread by virtue of emitting a more powerful signal you are effectively shinning a big bright light saying here I am!

Exactly and if you need pin point precision to limit colateral damage it doesn't matter if they spread it out and use 1000's you just take out the ones in your area of operations and now you can put a mortar right where you need it.

If you're using, say, 1000 jamming devices in a small area, like a small city, all of which are producing, say, wide-band white noise, it makes things a lot harder to pinpoint. It's harder to triangula ...

Good point. I was thinking if 'they' had spread out 1000's of devices all over the country. I wasn't thinking 1000's of devices in a small area.