Second rehearsal, two weeks later...just the band this time but the singer cannot remember any of the lyrics....now, we're playing a mix of covers and trying to learn some originals. The covers are not exactly ten minute Yes covers from their Tale of Topographic Oceans album, they're songs like Blitzkrieg Bop, EMI, I Wanna Be Your Dog. So, not exactly lyrically demanding nor particularly heavily worded.

At this stage I'm a little concerned....we've got a couple of lads on guitars who are clearly putting in some hard time learning new tunes, tightening up on covers, etc. I personally, after 8 years away from drums, am having to do so serious practicing....at least two hours every night without fail since getting the kit. The speed and consistency is almost back...really struggling with stamina and finger/arm pain, but I'm getting there slowly but surely.

The singer has one job to do....to learn the lyrics....and he's not done so yet.

So, we meet again for third rehearsal last night...and this is 6 weeks from first meeting....he STILL is reading some of the lyrics from a songsheet...he hasn't yet learnt the lyrics....I find this absolutely fucking unbelievable but I don't want to rock the boat on this just yet....

Worse though...he's brought his wife along again...and this time he occasionally gets her up on stage to sing along to one of the songs with him....now, at this point I'm wondering WTF is going on...and I know the bass guitarist is to because we keep passing the occasional glance at each other to say so.

I have a couple of other problems with the guy...I hate his image. He dons a stupid hat, and wears a sort of raincoat like the Stone Roses...a band who he's very much in to...he also tries to sing like them....but we're playing punk and rock covers/originals...and I hate it. I fear that when we play live, as eventually will happen, that people are going to think we're a bunch of dick heads because our lead singer is....I'd rather him just do what the rest of the band do...be ourselves, wear normal clothes...we're in our 40s...just playing for fun...so let's just play.

In amongst all of the above he does this really bizarre stuff....this is a rehearsal and he'll get up and say something like "this is the last song we're gonna play here tonight" (repeat...this is a rehearsal).....and when we end the song he'll say "thank you very much" (during a rehearsal) like some kind of demented, twisted Elvis.

He's not a particularly good singer either...but the other fellers seem happy enough with him so I'm happy to give him time....this is the first band he has ever sung/played/been in so I have some sympathy for the nerves thing,

So what do I do about this....I've thought of sounding the other guys out but I'm not really a 'going behind someones back' person (airing all my grievances out on an internet messageboard is about as clandestine as I can do).

Or do I tackle them after one of the rehearsals and have a sort of 'let's clear the air and discuss anything troubling us' session...

I've always been very self critical...I know I make mistakes....and I am absolutely the first to say "sorry" if I do cock up...but what I can't tolerate is laziness...I'm breaking my balls to 'catch up', to be the best I can possibly be and I'm seeing a singer who hasn't learnt simple lyrics to simple songs after 6 weeks and it's beginning grinding my gears.

They spoke quite genuinely last night about doing a gig next week and I had to step in and say "stop...WE ARE NOT READY"....back in the day I would have ripped that gig apart but I'm darned if I'm going on a stage with a singer holding a page of A4 lyrics...not a chance.

So...how would people tackle this....I need advice.

Do I suck it up and just roll with things for the time being (I am enjoying playing, and the feeling of being in a band again after a while out) or do I go to the band and say...

1) no wifes/girlfriends/friends at rehearsals...
2) ditch the daft image. We aren't an Oasis tribute act
3) LEARN YOUR GOD DAMNED LYRICS
4) Concentrate on singing and learning the songs at this stage instead of showmanship.
5) Stop trying to run when we are only on the toddling along stage.

Or do I walk out (I'm tempted to) and find another band. The last thing I want is aggro or upset. I'd hate to hurt any of the guys, the singer included's feelings...I think I'd rather walk away mutely than lose some good friends. And they are good friends.

However, I DO have lots of experience with dud band members, and it always ends up the same way. My advice, get rid of him immediately. We've just recently sacked a member for a similar reason, and it has been the best decision that particular band has ever made.

It's always the same story: there's one member letting everyone else down. Life's too short, everyone else works too hard. If you're particularly good friends, be straight with him, make the situation clear, and give him a chance; one chance. Otherwise, lose him and find someone better suited. You've made it clear in this post you don't want him, why wait?

Also, to address your last paragraph, you shouldn't have to walk out. If you make it clear with the rest of the band you're at breaking point, they're likely to choose you over him and get rid of him, especially if you're putting the work in.

Yeah, it sounds to me like you need to discuss this with the other members of the band, and tell them how you feel. Most likely, they feel the same way you do, but don't want to say anything. Unless of course, it's just for fun - in which case, who cares? But if you guys are hoping to get serious, then you have a lot of problems.

I will also say, that I am blessed when it comes to my wife. She always help me with my equipment, never has a problem with me needing to be with the band. My band mates actually wrote a 'thank' segment for the inside of the record we just finished to her for being such a good sport about them 'taking me away' so randomly.

Best to lay it out on the table now rather than go on for a while and it escalates. You aren't going to be happy with this set up until these issues are rectified.

Sounds like the "singer" is more interested in being a rockstar than in being in a band. It is good to have a stage prescence but don't put the cart before the horse: he needs to learn his parts before he can get on stage and do the glamour bit.

I've never minded a wife showing up to a practice on occassion to watch as long as she keeps her mouth closed and isn't a nuisance. When they become Yoko Ono, then they gotta go.

Unless of course, it's just for fun - in which case, who cares? But if you guys are hoping to get serious, then you have a lot of problems.

I will also say, that I am blessed when it comes to my wife. She always help me with my equipment, never has a problem with me needing to be with the band. My band mates actually wrote a 'thank' segment for the inside of the record we just finished to her for being such a good sport about them 'taking me away' so randomly.

Started out as 'just for fun' but who doesn't want to get some gigs done to see how they go :-))
I do think there are problems...but frankly maybe the problem is mine rather than their's.
I think I need to take it up with them and find out what the score is.

The wife thing...it's interesting to hear a different perspective...for me it just doesn't feel right but perhaps it more the 'norm' than maybe it once might have been.

I'm a miserable old traditionalist really...rehearsal is band time....end of (I've always thought). Can't have frank exchanges of views on musical issues when some blokes cat is waiting to pounce on your for pointing a finger at her hubby...

But your post makes me think perhaps I'm a bit misguided and need to stop being such a fossil

Best to lay it out on the table now rather than go on for a while and it escalates. You aren't going to be happy with this set up until these issues are rectified.

Sounds like the "singer" is more interested in being a rockstar than in being in a band. It is good to have a stage prescence but don't put the cart before the horse: he needs to learn his parts before he can get on stage and do the glamour bit.

I've never minded a wife showing up to a practice on occassion to watch as long as she keeps her mouth closed and isn't a nuisance. When they become Yoko Ono, then they gotta go.

You've reminded me of another thing....which your words give some real credance to....
When he's talking to his friends on Facebook he refers to us as 'his' band...."hey, have you heard my band"...."my band rehearsed last night"....

Drives me mad..."my"

Mebbe it's my drummer mentality (I've always considered drummers to be the most selfless members of bands) but I would never EVER refer to any band I'm in as 'mine' or 'my band'.....

I sort of know what he means....but it's a state of mind for me....it's 'our band' or 'the band I'm in' etc.

Again...is this a bit weird...am I being unreasonably touchy about this stuff

If you were a bunch of 20 year olds trying to form a working band, I'd say, Oh lord, how unprofessional, run while you can.

But I take it this is more a bunch of 40+ yr olds who are not professional musicians anyway all getting together to have fun. And for the singer, that's what it is: fun.

There are two lines that stick out:
"Or do I walk out (I'm tempted to) and find another band."
"I've not picked up a drumstick for about 8"

Those two lines seems to not quite line up.

What is really the goal of the band?
Are you go to gout and try to become rockstars?
To gig every weekend as a working cover band?
Or just to occasionally play some parties and bars?
Do you even care if the band plays out?

No doubt the singer is trying to put the cart before the horse, but if the goal is not really take the cart anywhere other than to enjoy the ride, does it matter?

Granted, such a singer would drive me batty too, as I really can't stand not having a certain level of professionalism in a musical situation, but at the same time, if I'm just jamming with some buddies for the sake of jamming, then I'm not too concerned about the level of professionalism.

If you were a bunch of 20 year olds trying to form a working band, I'd say, Oh lord, how unprofessional, run while you can.

But I take it this is more a bunch of 40+ yr olds who are not professional musicians anyway all getting together to have fun. And for the singer, that's what it is: fun.

There are two lines that stick out:
"Or do I walk out (I'm tempted to) and find another band."
"I've not picked up a drumstick for about 8"

Those two lines seems to not quite line up.

What is really the goal of the band?
Are you go to gout and try to become rockstars?
To gig every weekend as a working cover band?
Or just to occasionally play some parties and bars?
Do you even care if the band plays out?

No doubt the singer is trying to put the cart before the horse, but if the goal is not really take the cart anywhere other than to enjoy the ride, does it matter?

Granted, such a singer would drive me batty too, as I really can't stand not having a certain level of professionalism in a musical situation, but at the same time, if I'm just jamming with some buddies for the sake of jamming, then I'm not too concerned about the level of professionalism.

I appreciate your thoughts.
Man I didn't even want to play....my pal (guitarist) twisted my arm, pushed and cajoled, and eventually persuaded me to stand in while they found a full time drummer (yeahhh right).
I'm a 'no half measures' kind of guy....I told the guy at the time that I'll play, but in doing so I will put my entire commitment behind the band...I've ever been thus with bands...they are a big issue for me. I, at least I like to think, am a big team player.
So, the band initially starts off 'jamming'....messing about...just for laughs.
But the 2-3 hours of practice every single day since, and a band sound which is, well hell it's pretty god....I think there is a hole...and I have suggested what the hole is (I think we lack a guitar or keyboard) but I'm cautiously optimistic that we could be giggiing six months from now.
The other lads feel we should be gigging in like a week from now...I'm more 'grounded', or I'd like to think professional than that....I want us to gig when we are ready.
But....this singer....he's causing me concern....and I'm pretty savvy to know that that concern will gently fester until it begins to drive me mad.
Hence I raised my concerns on here.
Really, what I'm looking for is a view from the forum....am I being a bit of a miserably old bastard or are my concerns fair....
If people come on here saying "what the fuck are you talking about.....we always bring our wives to rehearsal and she always takes the stage for a few songs"....then I can promise you I will shut my face and concentrate on honing my drumming.

In terms of the two lines to which you directly point...
I've been drumming now for about 3 months and have found it like riding a bike.
I spent 8 years in a Beatles tribute band....there are LOTS of such bands in driving distance of myself (I am 30 miles from Liverpool)....I'm pretty confident I could walk into a Beatles tribute band right now and play to a level where I'd be snapped up.
So my thoughts are on cutting my losses right here and trying to find a band who I will fit in with pretty well.
It's a tough one for me...these lads are good friends of mine. I want to give it longer and sort things out

Started out as 'just for fun' but who doesn't want to get some gigs done to see how they go :-))
I do think there are problems...but frankly maybe the problem is mine rather than their's.
I think I need to take it up with them and find out what the score is.

The wife thing...it's interesting to hear a different perspective...for me it just doesn't feel right but perhaps it more the 'norm' than maybe it once might have been.

I'm a miserable old traditionalist really...rehearsal is band time....end of (I've always thought). Can't have frank exchanges of views on musical issues when some blokes cat is waiting to pounce on your for pointing a finger at her hubby...

But your post makes me think perhaps I'm a bit misguided and need to stop being such a fossil

I'm not saying it should always be that way. If a band mate's wife / girlfriend is causing problems, then it needs to be discussed. But if the other band mates incourage it, then maybe you're just playing with the wrong group. If you aren't comfortable, you aren't comfortable.

I once had a fall out with a band I played with, because we had a singer, and I didn't like his attitude. So I talked it over with the band and they told me to give him another chance, and if it continues to be a problem, they'll talk to him. Well, the problem continued, and they talked to him, but nothing changed. So I told them I would play with them until they scored a new drummer.

Of course, they were offended, and made it look like I was just being a jerk, but this guy really just got under my skin.

Sometimes there is no way around hurting someone's feelings. But if they really want you to play with them, they'll work something out.

No way. You may not be trying to set the world alight, but it obviously means something to you to be professional, regardless of how far you're gonna take this thing. I'd thrash this out from the outset in order to be clear everyone is on the same page.

Quote:

1) no wifes/girlfriends/friends at rehearsals...
2) ditch the daft image. We aren't an Oasis tribute act
3) LEARN YOUR GOD DAMNED LYRICS
4) Concentrate on singing and learning the songs at this stage instead of showmanship.
5) Stop trying to run when we are only on the toddling along stage.

Like this ^^^.

Defintely a great start. This is straight to the point and does not have to be delivered in a way that aggravates or offends. Never hurts to make your expectations clear. Sure, you wanna have a bit of fun, but you also want to maintain a level of professionalism while you're doing it.....expecting both is not unreasonable.

Addressing those fives issues is definitely how I'd approach this too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SquadLeader

Or do I walk out (I'm tempted to) and find another band.

Only you can answer this. But I'd at least raise the issues and try to trash it out and see what response I got first. Doubt it'll take long for you to be able to read the signs.

...hen he's talking to his friends on Facebook he refers to us as 'his' band...."hey, have you heard my band"...."my band rehearsed last night"....

Drives me mad..."my"

Mebbe it's my drummer mentality (I've always considered drummers to be the most selfless members of bands) but I would never EVER refer to any band I'm in as 'mine' or 'my band'.....

I sort of know what he means....but it's a state of mind for me....it's 'our band' or 'the band I'm in' etc.

Again...is this a bit weird...am I being unreasonably touchy about this stuff

I don't think so, but I have that same sensibility you do on this "my" band thing. I get rubbed even more raw when I'm introduced to someone by a bandmate as "my drummer". Oh man, that bugs me! You're right: there's nothing wrong with it exactly and maybe it is being nitpicky but it does reveal a state of mind that I'm not wanting to be in a band with!

Other than that, no good advice from me. Sounds like a fairly complicated situation with no clear path forward. DED distilled it down pretty good, but you don't like being half-assed, and they're good friends, so I guess you just gotta decide what the important thing is, then keep it as the important thing (how deep is that?? :)

Regarding the 'my' band thing.... He's not trying to say he owns the band, is the boss, or has any authority over the other members. Any of you can call it 'your' band. It's just a way of referring to your band. I do it, most people I know do it. If he thought that he held some power over the other members then the band probably wouldn't have even got this far.

I have had doubts about former band members, with similar complaints to you. But I found that when the push comes to shove, those members blew my doubts off the table and ended up impressing me in ways I would have never expected. I would book a gig to do in a few weeks time, most people just work better under pressure and I hope you see some improvement on his part, as well as the rest of the band.

I don't fully understand the image thing, if he's trying to act like someone he's not, then that sucks. People should just be themselves. But if wearing the hat and coat is him being himself, then you can't complain about it.

Is the guy actually a good dude? Or is he a jerk?

One more thing, if you are not already recording your practices and watching/listening back as a group (without the Mrs present, btw), you need to start doing so.

In most of the bands I played, we always had the wifes/girlfriends/fan friends coming to rehearsals from time to time, it can be good, it depends on the behaviour of the "guests" and the effect upon the practice, and to video a rehearsal is beneficial IMO, it will highlight both the good and bad elements in the music we play.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SquadLeader

2) ditch the daft image. We aren't an Oasis tribute act

For some, image is as important as the music itself, however, the "right" image is important, in some cases the "dull and boring" image just won't do, the same way as the "wrong" image is concerned.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SquadLeader

3) LEARN YOUR GOD DAMNED LYRICS

Lol, I agree :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by SquadLeader

4) Concentrate on singing and learning the songs at this stage instead of showmanship.

Correct, but nothing's wrong into developing some showmanship, it goes along with the "image" concept.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SquadLeader

5) Stop trying to run when we are only on the toddling along stage.

Patience is a vertue, but in some cases, "faking it" has proven to be worthwhile.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SquadLeader

Or do I walk out (I'm tempted to) and find another band. The last thing I want is aggro or upset. I'd hate to hurt any of the guys, the singer included's feelings...I think I'd rather walk away mutely than lose some good friends. And they are good friends.

That's an alternative, but my guess is that you'll probaly going to leave many bands before you'll find the "right" one, if they're good friends, an open discussion with your band on all the topics you described is probably a better option.

I wouldn't walk out until you have another gig lined up. But that should be a last resort. As far as the "my" band thing goes...yea you're too sensitive there. Give that up. That is said all the time and it's a term if endearment, not ownership. Sometimes it's in your best interest to give the guy enough rope to hang himself with. Perhaps, instead of thinking about leaving, how about coming up with a better singer to rehearse? That's being proactive. Get the existing singer something to think about by bringing in some competition. That way you're not a problem maker, you're a solution maker, and may the best man win. You have to tread lightly here, there is a very strong possibility of you alienating the wrong people by being too controlling.

Point out issues, and offer possible solutions, without pointing fingers or naming names. How you word things is crucial. I would avoid the whole "problem" scenario and simply say hey guys you should hear this guy sing, sidestepping the whole problem issue. Your actions by lining another up will tell everyone where your head is without you having to detail blow by blow reasons why you aren't happy.

In amongst all of the above he does this really bizarre stuff....this is a rehearsal and he'll get up and say something like "this is the last song we're gonna play here tonight" (repeat...this is a rehearsal).....and when we end the song he'll say "thank you very much" (during a rehearsal) like some kind of demented, twisted Elvis.

He's not a particularly good singer either...but the other fellers seem happy enough with him so I'm happy to give him time....this is the first band he has ever sung/played/been in so I have some sympathy for the nerves thing,

It's actually a good thing to practice things that he would say at a gig. Have you ever played a gig, and at the end of each song there is that awkward moment before the crowd realises the song is done, and starts clapping? Saying "thank you" right after the band hits their last note is a clear signal to the audience that the song is over. This isn't necessary for a big concert where the whole audience knows where the end of the song is anyway. But for what you're doing it's a good idea.

Being a good front man takes practice and experience (I'm not one, but I know good front men/women, and bad ones too) and I bet what makes the difference is that the good ones are prepared, and may even practice the stuff they say between songs.

And it takes a much larger set of cahones to get up and sing in front of people, I know it's something I couldn't do right now. Sitting behind the drums is easy, for the guy standing out front, he needs to be as comfortable as possible.

But he should at least learn the lyrics. Make sure he knows that he can't have lyric sheets at a gig.

The other lads feel we should be gigging in like a week from now...I'm more 'grounded', or I'd like to think professional than that....I want us to gig when we are ready.

Been there . . . been there too many times; and from what you say about this singer it's unlikely to improve. If you guys were all 15 then I'd say get out and gig as soon as possible, but you clearly have different priorities to the others and some pride in your work. I bet you 20 quid that if you start gigging next week then every rehearsal from now on will be just running over the same set in advance of the next gig and you'll be unlikely to play anything new for ages. I mean, if the singer can't be arsed to learn the songs you're already playing, what chance is there of doing any new material?

The fundamental problem here is lack of self-awareness. Everyone makes mistakes and everyone can use a little more practice: but if any of the other members of the band don't see what you see and then try to address these issues then this band ain't never going to do much more than what you're already doing. As soon as you said "the singer brings his wife along" then I heard ALARM BELLS RINGING. Some people think it's cute to have friends/spouses at rehearsals: I don't. I think it's fine to play with you mates hanging around, but then that's not a rehearsal - it's a party.

Sounds very much to me that you've remembered that you prefer the music side of being in a band to the rock-and-roll side of it. That being the case I'd recommend looking elsewhere. Especially if you want to stay friends with any of these guys. There's nowt wrong with being friends with your band-mates, but starting a band with mates is a different thing all together, as you have found out.

Oh, and for the record, I agree that the pretending-to-be-Ian-Brown thing and the talking-to-a-crowd-that-isn't-there-thing are painfully adolescent. That ain't nerves, it's called being a numpty.

However, I DO have lots of experience with dud band members, and it always ends up the same way. My advice, get rid of him immediately.

Yes. This guy will not only waste your time but be a constant source of aggravation. You guys are middle aged. You don't need this crap - just people who know what they're doing and want to play.

Funny thing how middle aged people can regress when they return to band play, momentarily putting aside their highly paid day jobs for being treated like hired help for diddly per hour - and here's the kicker - because then the band will gain exposure.

Holy mother of Mergatroid, so a bunch of old farts playing old fashioned covers are going to make a splash in a scene where late 20s is considered elderly?? Good luck with that one.

I would just go along and see what happens. Tell your buddy that got you into this that that's what you are doing. If it's bad say it's bad and if it shows promise then it's all good. Bad singers make bad bands though. I never had just a singer. might be cool. Always string players or something.

I would have concerns about the singer, but they may not be unsurmountable. I have no issue with the singer having to read off lyrics sheets, as long as he has learned them all by the time of the first gig. Personally I can never remember all my lyrics when I sing, so I use cheat sheets, although I'm certainly not the front man either. Is the singer improving, or is it status quo? Do other band members sing, either leads or backing vocals? Are there any issues with that?

Personally I've never had girlfriends/wives at rehearsals. They do come to gigs and sometimes help with setup/takedown, but are never involved with the gig otherwise. If another bandmember had their GF/wive come up on stage to sing, and couldn't add value to the band performance, I would not be too happy.

Do you have a first gig scheduled yet? You may want to wait another couple weeks to see if there are improvements in some areas. After waiting 8 years you probably don't want to kill this opportunity until you're totally confident it is not the right situation.