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Well this is the "fantasy" version.
On the real scene aren't both guns missing? i think to remember something like that. If that's so, it's quite a mistery isn't it? Beside those three noone was supposed to be there.

Hideyoshi didn't give his gun away. After Kyrie and Rudolph die he returns to the scene and he's clearly holding the gun with him as he approaches Eva-Beatrice. It doesn't mention him picking it up either.

Hideyoshi didn't give his gun away. After Kyrie and Rudolph die he returns to the scene and he's clearly holding the gun with him as he approaches Eva-Beatrice. It doesn't mention him picking it up either.

I don't get why that would be so confusing. There's no need for red text since it's not one of the major mysteries, it's even explained and the supernatural elements aren't involved in the switching of the guns at all. The CULPRIT taking them and the key doesn't mean that the WITCH took the guns and the key and turned them into magical battle "furniture" or anything. ^^;

Technically they were in the human world... this scene is different from the battle between Virgilia and Beatrice or the repeated deaths of Rosa and Maria because no magic was involved in the switching of items at all... nor would there need to be.

I don't get why that would be so confusing. There's no need for red text since it's not one of the major mysteries, it's even explained and the supernatural elements aren't involved in the switching of the guns at all. The CULPRIT taking them and the key doesn't mean that the WITCH took the guns and the key and turned them into magical battle "furniture" or anything. ^^;

Technically they were in the human world... this scene is different from the battle between Virgilia and Beatrice or the repeated deaths of Rosa and Maria because no magic was involved in the switching of items at all... nor would there need to be.

Spoiler:

Sorry but i failed to understand your point O_o
Nobody said that magic exist or something like that...anyway..

My point was that not EVERY LITTLE THING has to be confirmed with red... nor was it truly a magical scene until the actual magical characters confronted Kyrie, Hideyoshi, and Rudolf.

The detail about the guns was already told, I was just saying what happened (which I was right about btw) and you said that if it's not confirmed in red then it's not to be trusted. >.>

A member was just confused about the events that took place and I explained it... it doesn't mean that I was trying to enter a detailed discussion about what took place and where and how and if not this or that was to be trusted... I merely stated that Kyrie gave her gun to Hideyoshi at the start. That's all...

The reason i said it's a mistery that Rudolf's group's guns were taken is because Rosa's gun on the other hand was left where it was. Whoever is the culprit (witch or not) he doesn't seem to act under any logic. If he didn't want Rosa's gun, then why he took the very same gun after it was taken by Hideyoshi (or Kyrie)?
I could say that he did so to conceal the fact that Kyrie and Ruolf didn't shoot that many rounds as shown in the "fantasy" version, but that would be kinda preposterous isn't it? If the real culprit is a human being how can he possibly knows what happens in the metaworld?

The reason i said it's a mistery that Rudolf's group's guns were taken is because Rosa's gun on the other hand was left where it was. Whoever is the culprit (witch or not) he doesn't seem to act under any logic. If he didn't want Rosa's gun, then why he took the very same gun after it was taken by Hideyoshi (or Kyrie)?
I could say that he did so to conceal the fact that Kyrie and Ruolf didn't shoot that many rounds as shown in the "fantasy" version, but that would be kinda preposterous isn't it? If the real culprit is a human being how can he possibly knows what happens in the metaworld?

Spoiler for maybe:

Maybe the culprit killed Rosa and Maria on a hurry? It's not said how much time passed since Rosa and Maria died to when they were found, so the killer could've forgotten about it in his haste. Or simply not thought about it. Or trying to send a message "look, I don't even need your stupid gun to kill you all (I can do it with magic)".

Maybe the culprit killed Rosa and Maria on a hurry? It's not said how much time passed since Rosa and Maria died to when they were found, so the killer could've forgotten about it in his haste. Or simply not thought about it. Or trying to send a message "look, I don't even need your stupid gun to kill you all (I can do it with magic)".

Spoiler for ep3 second twilight:

All possibilities, but all of them still points towards a very fickle mind. The action of picking a gun from the ground only requires 2 seconds at max. A forgetfull culprit doing things in a hurry doesn't match with the perfect closed rooms we have seen so far. And the "message" loses any meaning if then the culprit does remove the guns.

All possibilities, but all of them still points towards a very fickle mind. The action of picking a gun from the ground only requires 2 seconds at max. A forgetful culprit doing things in a hurry doesn't match with the perfect closed rooms we have seen so far. And the "message" loses any meaning if then the culprit does remove the guns.

Spoiler:

There's always been the option of a second killer, two different MOs. And we don't know what kind of struggle might have ensued while he/she killed Rosa and Maria, the time that had been calculated to kill them and pick up the gun might have been miscalculated.

On a second thought it is quite improbable that the killer killed maria before Rosa. So he killed Rosa first and then he took his time chocking Maria. If he was in a hurry he would have used a faster way to kill.
At this point the idea of a second killer sounds more rational, or Rosa killed Maria and then killed herself. But.. i don't remember, was this possibility denied in red?

On a second thought it is quite improbable that the killer killed maria before Rosa. So he killed Rosa first and then he took his time chocking Maria. If he was in a hurry he would have used a faster way to kill.
At this point the idea of a second killer sounds more rational, or Rosa killed Maria and then killed herself. But.. i don't remember, was this possibility denied in red?

Spoiler:

The only non-suicides confirmed in red were the servants in the closed rooms. And it was confirmed that they were dead, not that Rosa killed Maria.

Actually, that was what I thought when I first saw that scene. Rosa killed Maria and then killed herself, or someone killed her.

Unfortunately we don't get much info on them. After Beatrice leaves by demand of Battler, Ronove takes her spot and states a thing or two in red before the screen blacks out. We're told later that Battler built off a theory that Eva is the culprit with Hideyoshi as an accomplice and Ronove resigned there, but other details weren't specified.

Even by that definition it is still possible that Maria was killed by Rosa (or the other way around? °°), however, why? Anyway we'd still need a 3rd person to kill the survivor of the two so it's easier to imagine he killed both, and in that case Rosa must have died first.