(The Guardian)— The Liberal Democrat leader, Tim Farron, has confirmed that he does not believe gay sex to be a sin, saying that while he had no wish to “pontificate on theological matters,” he also did not want people to misunderstand his religious beliefs.

Farron, who professes to be an evangelical Christian, has faced a series of questions about his views on the subject in recent days, prompted in part by an interview two years ago in which, when asked if homosexuality was a sin, he responded: “We are all sinners.”

During a campaign visit last week, Farron insisted he had been misinterpreted. The idea of homosexuality being a sin was “not a statement that I make, this is something I get asked because of my faith,” he told the Guardian.

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balloonknot9

So if people are going to claim that same sex sexual relationships are not sinful, I have yet to hear a sound theological reason given for making this claim. Where in the Bible, Scripture, is it stated that SSSR are not considered sinful? Since SSSR have been around for so long, I would have thought that this matter would have resolved millenniums ago.

Chris

There are numerous theologians who have given arguments that the verses which appear to condemn homosexuality are misunderstood or, quite deliberately, mistranslated.

William of Glynn

Jesus himself said that some are born gay.

balloonknot9

Could you site a reference for that statement?

Amos Moses

hes going to say some garbage about Matthew 19 or David and Jonathan …. and it is all garbage ……. and he knows it …………

SFBruce

William will respond for himself if he chooses, but I think he might be referring to Matthew 19:11-12.

Not everyone can accept this teaching, but only those to whom it is given. For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let anyone accept this who can.

Obviously, no man is a eunuch “from birth,” so some argue that Jesus was referring to gay men here. I’m not necessarily making that argument myself, since I’m no Bible scholar, but it certainly makes sense to me. What else was could he be referring to?

Amos Moses

no …….

Robert

But Jesus Hernandez is not Jesus of the bible whom Christians are suppose to listen to.

meamsane

You have been reading to many propaganda websites!

Grace Kim Kwon

A sad cowardly man. Western Europe appeased Hitler before; this time it is Sodomy. Homosexuality is a sin and the worst of all this century, because the most powerful Western region intimidates mankind with the endorsement of it. No one should endorse a sin, especially such a depraved kind. Those who endorse homosexuality are practically denying the sin’s existence, and therefore they are neither Christian or realistic.

LeftRight

You’re a crazy women. Cultist.

Robert

That’s no way to talk to some one way smarter than you.

InTheChurch

Lying is not a sin. Having other Gods is not a sin. Cheating on your spouse is not a sin. Killing is against the law, but not a sin. Hating your neighbor is not a sin.

0pus

So Christians got it wrong for 2000 years, and now the gays finally show us how to interpret the Bible correctly?

EPIC FAIL, on steroids.

Tangent002

Christians had it wrong on slavery for quite some time as well. We all come out of the Dark Ages eventually.

Amos Moses

no …. christians brought the US and the rest of the world out of slavery ….. and comparing Levitical slavery to slavery practiced in the US ….. AND the African nations that supplied those slaves ….. MANY of them MUSLIM …… had nothing in common …………. and actually pretty much the whole world is in slavery now ….. you just do not recognize it …………

Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

Preach it.

Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

Christians overturned slavery. Please learn some basic history.

Tangent002

Some Christians did. Others were vehemently opposed to it.

Sharon_at_home

Some non believers did, Others were vehemently opposed to it.

Chris

You’re correct. Some non-believers DID support slavery. But slavery was usually supported by quotes from the bible. It’s a sad but true fact.

Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

It’s a fact that Christians overturned slavery.

https://www.facebook.com/doug.bristow3 Doug Bristow

Christians were never in favor of the slavery you speak of.

Chris

Oh, oh I know this one. I quote 10 or 20 Christians who spoke or wrote in favour of slavery and you dismiss them by saying ‘they weren’t TRUE Christians’. Right?

https://www.facebook.com/doug.bristow3 Doug Bristow

Give me the quotes and scripture they use and I’ll give you my answer.

Chris

“It is to be hoped, that on a question of such vital importance as this to
the peace and safety of our common country, as well as to the welfare of the
church, we shall be seen cleaving to the Bible, and taking all our decisions
about this matter, from its inspired pages. With men from the North, I
have observed for many years a palpable ignorance of the divine will, in
reference to the institution of slavery. I have seen but a few, who
made the Bible their study, that had obtained a knowledge of what it did reveal
on this subject. Of late, their denunciation of slavery as a sin, is loud
and long.

I propose, therefore, to examine the sacred volume briefly, and if I am
not greatly mistaken, I shall be able to make it appear that the institution of
slavery has received, in the first place,

1st. The sanction of the
Almighty in the Patriarchal age.

2d. That it was
incorporated into the only National Constitution which ever emanated from God.

3d. That its legality was
recognized, and its relative duties regulated, by Jesus Christ in his kingdom;
and

4th. That it is full of
mercy.

… Now, my dear sir, if, from the evidence contained in the Bible to
prove slavery a lawful relation among God’s people under every dispensation, the
assertion is still made, in the very face of this evidence, that slavery has
ever been the greatest sin– everywhere, and under all circumstances–
can you, or can any sane man bring himself to believe, that the mind capable of
such a decision, is not capable of trampling the Word of God under foot upon any
subject?”

Every instance of slavery approved of by God was either as a judgement/punishment with Israel being on both the giving and receiving end of it or as a means of satisfying a debt. None of which was the case you bring up here. These CINO’s (Christians in name only) may have done this in the name of Christ but in actuality were being led by Satan.

Chris

“Every instance of slavery approved of by God was either as a
judgement/punishment with Israel being on both the giving and receiving
end of it or as a means of satisfying a debt. ”

That’s not true. There are verses which give permission for Hebrews to buy slaves from their neighboring countries.

“None of which was the case
you bring up here. These CINO’s (Christians in name only) may have
done this in the name of Christ but in actuality were being led by
Satan.”

Which is exactly what I said you’d say. I am a prophet.

https://www.facebook.com/doug.bristow3 Doug Bristow

I have told you the truth. Use scripture to prove me wrong.

Chris

You’ve told me YOUR opinion. That’s not necessarily the same thing as the truth.

Psalm 123:2 (New International Version
(NIV)): As the eyes of slaves look to the hand of their master, as the
eyes of a maid look to the hand of her mistress, so our eyes look to the
LORD our God, till he shows us his mercy.

Ephesians 6:4-6: Fathers, do not exasperate
your children; instead, bring them up in the training and instruction of
the Lord. Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and
with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. Obey them not
only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but like slaves of
Christ, doing the will of God from your heart.

Exodus 21:7-11 “If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as male servants do. If she does not please the master who has selected her for himself,[a] he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with her. If he selects her for his son, he must grant her the rights of a daughter. If he marries another woman, he must not deprive the first one of her food, clothing and marital rights. If he does not provide her with these three things, she is to go free, without any payment of money.”

Non-Hebrews, on the other hand, could (according to Leviticus
25:44) be subjected to slavery in exactly the way that it is usually
understood. The slaves could be bought, sold and inherited when their
owner died. This, by any standard, is race- or ethnicity-based, and
Leviticus 25:44-46 explicitly allows slaves to be bought from foreign
nations or foreigners living in Israel. It does say that simply
kidnapping Hebrews to enslave them is a crime punishable by death
(Deuteronomy 24:7), but no such prohibition exists regarding foreigners.
War captives could be made slaves, assuming they had refused to make
peace (this applied to women and children—men were simply killed), along
with the seizure of all their property (Deuteronomy 20:10-15).

Chris

“Jesus Christ recognized this
(i.e. slavery) institution as one that was lawful among men, and regulated its
relative duties. … I affirm then, first (and no man denies) that Jesus Christ
has not abolished slavery by a prohibitory command; and second, I affirm, he has
introduced no new moral principle which can work its destruction.”

“… The right of holding slaves is clearly established by the Holy
Scriptures, both by precept and example. In the Old Testament, the
Israelites were directed to purchase their bond-men and bond-maids of the
Heathen nations; except they were of the Canaanites, for these were to be
destroyed. And it is declared, that the persons purchased were to be their
‘bond-men forever’; and an ‘inheritance for them and their children.’ They were
not to go out free in the year of jubilee, as the Hebrews, who had been
purchased, were: the line being clearly drawn between them. …

In the New-Testament, the Gospel History, or representation of facts,
presents us a view correspondent with that which is furnished by other authentic
ancient histories of the state of the world at the commencement of Christianity.
The powerful Romans had succeeded, in empire, the polished Greeks; and under
both empires, the countries they possessed and governed were full of slaves.
Many of these with their masters, were converted to the Christian Faith, and
received, together with them into the Christian Church, while it was yet under
the ministry of the inspired Apostles. In things purely spiritual, they
appear to have enjoyed equal privileges; but their relationship, as masters and
slaves, was not dissolved. Their respective duties are strictly
enjoined. The masters are not required to emancipate their slaves; but
to give them the things that are just and equal, forbearing threatening; and to
remember, they also have a master in Heaven. The “servants under the yoke”
(bond-servants or slaves) mentioned by Paul to Timothy, as having “believing
masters,” are not authorized by him to demand of them emancipation, or to employ
violent means to obtain it; but are directed to “account their masters worthy of
all honor,” and “not to despise them, because they were brethren” in religion;
“but the rather to do them service, because they were faithful and beloved
partakers of the Christian benefit.” Similar directions are given by him
in other places, and by other Apostles. And it gives great weight to the
argument, that in this place, Paul follows his directions concerning servants
with a charge to Timothy, as an Evangelist, to teach and exhort men to observe
this doctrine.

Had the holding of slaves been a moral evil, it cannot be supposed, that
the inspired Apostles, who feared not the faces of men, and were ready to lay
down their lives in the cause of their God, would have tolerated it, for a
moment, in the Christian Church. If they had done so on a principle of
accommodation, in cases where the masters remained heathen, to avoid offences
and civil commotion; yet, surely, where both master and servant were Christian,
as in the case before us, they would have enforced the law of Christ, and
required, that the master should liberate his slave in the first instance.
But, instead of this, they let the relationship remain untouched, as being
lawful and right, and insist on the relative duties.

In proving this subject justifiable by Scriptural authority, its morality
is also proved; for the Divine Law never sanctions immoral actions.

… If the holding of slaves is lawful, or according to the Scriptures;
then this Scriptural rule can be considered as requiring no more of the master,
in respect of justice (whatever it may do in point of generosity) than what he,
if a slave, could consistently, wish to be done to himself, while the
relationship between master and servant should still be continued.”

Source: Reverend
Dr. Richard Furman, President of the Baptist State Convention, Exposition of
the Views of the Baptists, Relative to the Coloured Population in the United
States in a Communication to the Governor of South Carolina (1838)

Chris

“If we prove that domestic slavery is, in the general, a natural and
necessary institution, we remove the greatest stumbling block to belief in the
Bible; for whilst texts, detached and torn from their context, may be found for
any other purpose, none can be found that even militates against slavery.
The distorted and forced construction of certain passages, for this purpose, by
abolitionists, if employed as a common rule of construction, would reduce the
Bible to a mere allegory, to be interpreted to suit every vicious taste and
wicked purpose.

Why do people allow homosexual’s to steal the word gay and pervert that to. Where the out rage with the
KJV people over that.

MyLady1

It’s like “lady” for ANY female, even hookers, or lady of the evening, working girl, exotic dancer; thongs use to be on your feet, now it’s crotch floss (that dirties, not cleans), God’s rainbow for gays…… they have to pervert anything good and/or of God. Just like God said would happen. People don’t just want to be/do bad, they want to take God’s good and make it bad, also. And look at the hellhole they’ve made our world.

Chris

And fundies are the worst. Don’t forget their perversions. Just thought I’d join in the general judgemental attitude.

Trilemma

Is gay sex a sin? It depends on how you interpret the Bible.

Sharon_at_home

It’s states very clearly that it is a sin.

Trilemma

According to your interpretation.

MyLady1

It says an abomination and unnatural. That doesn’t seem like it could be interpretated any other way. Sure, some things may not be very clear, but that one seems VERY clear. Even to not- too- smart me. I didn’t need that one explained at all.

Chris

“It [the bible] says [homosexuality is] an abomination and unnatural”

Except ‘unnatural’ means not found in nature. But homosexuality IS found in nature therefore it’s NOT unnatural.

And yes the bible says that homosexuality is an abomination, just like eating shellfish [Lev 11: 12], re-marriage [Deut 24 1-4], eating carnivorous birds [Lev 11: 13], something which has four feet and flies [Lev 11: 23]. The last one is pretty safe because it doesn’t exist.

Trilemma

When you say, “abomination,” you must be thinking of Leviticus.

If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: – Leviticus 20:13 KJV

This can be written something like, “A man who lies with a male in wife’s bed have both committed an abomination.” In other words, a man who cheats on his wife with another man has still committed adultery which carries the death penalty. It is not saying all gay sex is a sin.

https://www.facebook.com/doug.bristow3 Doug Bristow

Give me scripture where God says otherwise.

Chris

So do you believe that the Sun goes round the Earth? You must. After all just give me scripture that says the Earth goes round the Sun. Just one verse.

I can give you plenty of verses which speak of the Sun going round the Earth.

Please stay on topic and explain to me or show me scripture why same sex sex aka homosexuality is not a sin even though God said it is.

Chris

I am staying on topic. I am using your argument to show you that the principle your argument is based on is wrong.

https://www.facebook.com/doug.bristow3 Doug Bristow

Being the scholar that you are, you should not have a problem with actually explaining why same sex sex aka homosexuality is not a sin even though God said it is.

Chris

For one thing God didn’t say any such thing. Some people said that God said it. But there are theologians who state that that’s not even correct.

For example the often quoted story of Sodom. Was the sin of Sodom homosexuality? Nope. Why can I say that? Consider this. If the guys had been heterosexuals and tried to rape female angels would the sin be heterosexuality? No. It would be the rape. Now apply that to homosexuality. If the attempted rape is the crime then how can consensual homosexual relationships be condemned?

https://www.facebook.com/doug.bristow3 Doug Bristow

Use God’s Word to justify your position.

Chris

Use the bible to show that some men claimed to speak for God? Ok I present the bible. Show me a book or even a passage that was written by God.

Reason2012

The Liberal Democrat leader, Tim Farron, has confirmed that he does not believe gay sex to be a sin

It’s not “gay” sex – it’s homosexual behavior, and yes, God makes it quite clear that behavior is a sin. If a person has those inclinations, but does not act upon it, nor dwells in lust upon it, then it’s not a sin.

saying that while he had no wish to “pontificate on theological matters,”

Then he shouldn’t try to publicly claim or imply God says homosexual behavior is not a sin.

Farron, who professes to be an evangelical Christian,

We’re not Christians because we profess to be – we’re Christians because we’re born again by the Holy Spirit, and the proof of this will be our life of following Jesus / obeying God to the best of our ability for the rest of our lives while dying to our old unsaved life, not instead teaching others that God’s Word can be discarded on the parts we refuse to obey.

BuckeyePhysicist

Any sex outside one-man one-woman marriage is a sin.

Trilemma

Not according to the Bible. The Bible does not say it’s a sin for a man to be married to more than one woman and/or to have concubines.

https://www.facebook.com/doug.bristow3 Doug Bristow

Tim Farron is not a Christian. Same sex sex aka homosexuality is a sin.

Trilemma

How do you know he’s not a Christian?

https://www.facebook.com/doug.bristow3 Doug Bristow

Because of what he said. By their fruits you will know them….

Trilemma

Where in the Bible does it say that one of the requirements of being a Christian is to profess that gay sex is a sin?

https://www.facebook.com/doug.bristow3 Doug Bristow

God has said it is a sin and to deny He said that, is calling God a liar. Anyone who calls God a liar does not have His Holy Spirit within them and therefore is not a Christian.

Chris

So basically you’re saying that no one can differ in their interpretation of the bible. You and only you got it right. Right?

https://www.facebook.com/doug.bristow3 Doug Bristow

God got it right when He said it. Go read it for yourself.

Chris

And only YOUR interpretation of scripture is correct. Thus everyone’s view must be measured against yours. Pray, how is this different to ego worship?

https://www.facebook.com/doug.bristow3 Doug Bristow

WOW……You figured out that out of billions of Christians in the world that I am the only one that “interprets” scripture this way?

Chris

No. That’s not what I’m saying. I’m saying that you measure every interpretation against your own. If someone’s interpretation matches yours then they have the ‘correct’ view of the bible. If they don’t match yours then they have the ‘incorrect’ view. Notice how everything comes back to YOUR viewpoint.

https://www.facebook.com/doug.bristow3 Doug Bristow

It is not my viewpoint. It is God’s.

Chris

So your viewpoint is God’s viewpoint. Can you see the ego worship?

https://www.facebook.com/doug.bristow3 Doug Bristow

What I can see is someone who is seeking the truth. The truth can only be found in God, His son Jesus and His Word. No matter how you live or what you have said and done….God loves you and is waiting for you to turn to Him.
——————

John 3:16-17New King James Version (NKJV)

16 For
God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever
believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

Chris

“What I can see is someone who is seeking the truth.”

Thank you.

“The truth can only
be found in God, His son Jesus and His Word.”

Sorry I’ll let the evidence guide me.

“No matter how you live or
what you have said and done….God loves you and is waiting for you to
turn to Him.”

And when He answers my questions I just might. Till then I’ll remain a Zoroastrian.

Trilemma

You believe God says gay sex is a sin because of your interpretation of the Bible. Someone with a different interpretation of the Bible can believe gay sex is not a sin without calling God a liar. They’re not saying God is a liar, they’re saying your interpretation is wrong. Just because a Christian has a different interpretation from you doesn’t mean they’re not a Christian.

https://www.facebook.com/doug.bristow3 Doug Bristow

Leviticus 18:22New King James Version (NKJV)

22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination.

Trilemma

Your interpretation of this verse is probably that it condemns all gay sex. Here’s another interpretation. The verse uses the word “male” instead of man. In this context “male” is referring to a boy. If the intended meaning was to condemn gay sex in general it would have said, “You shall not lie with a man as with a woman. This verse is actually condemning pederasty.

https://www.facebook.com/doug.bristow3 Doug Bristow

Jude 5-7New King James Version (NKJV)

Old and New Apostates

5 But
I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having
saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who
did not believe. 6 And
the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own
abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the
judgment of the great day; 7 as
Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to
these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after
strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

==========

Jude 16-19New King James Version (NKJV)

Apostates Predicted

16 These
are grumblers, complainers, walking according to their own lusts; and
they mouth great swelling words, flattering people to gain advantage. 17 But you, beloved, remember the words which were spoken before by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ: 18 how they told you that there would be mockers in the last time who would walk according to their own ungodly lusts. 19 These are sensual persons, who cause divisions, not having the Spirit.

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