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Why? Because the players bring an extraordinary amount of money in. If these high school and junior college kids played for football programs that in turn brought money back that could be used to fund equipment, they wouldn't have to pay. You're completely ignoring the fact that the NFL players bring in money to themselves and the owners. As soon as you try to make comparisons between an NFL team and high school teams, you're getting lost in the argument.

The whole argument is ridiculous, and rooted out of jealousy for how much money the NFL players make (as do a lot of arguments on this site). Do I wish I made what an NFL player made? Hell yeah! But am I going to bash them for making "too much" when they have busted their *** their whole life to mold themselves into an elite NFL football player, a career that sometimes yields extraordinary salaries? NO. The sense of entitlement that some people have is ridiculous.

Work your whole life, get to the NFL and you can have the same chance at the money they make. You didn't get there? Well, time to find a new day job (there are people who try but don't make it). But don't tell me that they should start buying their own equipment, or actors/actresses should start paying for sets and production costs. Say your boss walks in and tells you they're cutting back on costs, the computer you use everyday you're now going to have to buy, along with the printers, copiers, etc. You're going to be fine with that?

The owner make a TON yes. But the players make tons more then the familes who have to pay for there equitment and THEY DON'T get paid to play. They do it for FUN. Athletics bring in money for schools the kids who play don't get a dime of that. They are the ones who put out the product they don't get paid. Most of them are happy to play.

IF my employer did that your right I would not be happy. I also don't have the money the players have. I can't afford to give as much as they can. But I am not in a partnership. A TRULY fair partnership spilt BOTH income and expenses 50/50. And if that happend I would move on go work for someone eles.

Heres something eles to think about. Not all the owners are just rich because of who mommy and daddy are. Some of them worked there ***es of to get in a postion where they could afford to buy an NFL team.

My whole argument is not that the owners are any less to blame for this then the players. My problem is people jump all over the owners for things and rightfully so. But defend the players for doing some of the same things. Just because the owners make more doesn't mean the players should be excused. A millionare and billionare both kill someone should only the billonare go to jail?

According to A Peterson who signed a $40.5 Million contract of his own free will and accord the players are just slaves. If they are in fact slaves (which I think is total BS) who sold them in to it? Themselves thats who they signed the contract and they can walk away anytime just leave the money on the table. If the players don't like the CBA being offered they are free to walk away and find a job somewhere else oh yeah they can't get one 10% of what they are being offered by the NFL too bad they need to walk away.

If you don't like your job because you don't like the pay scale you will leave so can the players. When I got out of the Army after 8 years in '76 jobs were hard to find like now but I had had enough of their treatment I chose to walk away from a steady pay check and look for something else which took me about 6 months to find but that was my choice they players can do the same and don't lecture me about I was not a talented as the players to bad that is life we all can't be as gifted as them but they also have options it's just that they may have to lower their lifestyle to meet their new means.

As a matter of fact I am...I have to use my personal lap top to work more often than not and I had to buy that with zero compensation to me. I want to print something out to use guess what I don't go to the boss saying I want 50% of the profits. The arguement that they're professional athletes and shouldn't have to pay for anything is ridiculous. I'm a computer programmer and do things a lot of other people can't do, does that mean that people should buy a computer for me?

The reason I said that is because when you start asking to be partners (which is what the 50/50 split the Union asked for) you get to start paying all the costs in my book...pure and simple.

I'm a computer programmer as well, and I have never once had to use my own personal computer for anything work related. If I were told I had to, I would find another job. I mean that comment in no offense to you, because I think that is an unfortunate circumstance you have.

Originally Posted by matthewschiefs

The owner make a TON yes. But the players make tons more then the familes who have to pay for there equitment and THEY DON'T get paid to play. They do it for FUN. Athletics bring in money for schools the kids who play don't get a dime of that. They are the ones who put out the product they don't get paid. Most of them are happy to play.

IF my employer did that your right I would not be happy. I also don't have the money the players have. I can't afford to give as much as they can. But I am not in a partnership. A TRULY fair partnership spilt BOTH income and expenses 50/50. And if that happend I would move on go work for someone eles.

Heres something eles to think about. Not all the owners are just rich because of who mommy and daddy are. Some of them worked there ***es of to get in a postion where they could afford to buy an NFL team.

My whole argument is not that the owners are any less to blame for this then the players. My problem is people jump all over the owners for things and rightfully so. But defend the players for doing some of the same things. Just because the owners make more doesn't mean the players should be excused. A millionare and billionare both kill someone should only the billonare go to jail?

Another thing in regards to splitting expenses...The owners don't open up the books, so there is no way to tell what is getting written off as expenses. So when Ms. McCaskey of the Bears decides to give her great nephew a $250K salary to go watch Bears games all year, she writes this off as an expense. The players should have to support that?

Another thing about the equipment, that's all free from the equipment manufacturers anyway.

Isnt it the players sense of entitlement exactly what you are arguing so passionately for.
You say that the average fan should have tried for the NFL and if they didnt make it then they should get another day job. Then i say NFL players should have tried to be owners and if that didnt work out then go find a day job.

The only reason a beer sweats around Canada is because he's decided it will be the next beer he drinks.

Isnt it the players sense of entitlement exactly what you are arguing so passionately for.
You say that the average fan should have tried for the NFL and if they didnt make it then they should get another day job. Then i say NFL players should have tried to be owners and if that didnt work out then go find a day job.

And you are way off in your number of employees for the NFL. The NFL is more than just the players, there is the coaches, the people who work the front offices, the officials, the venders who work during the game, security for the parking lots. A lot of those people are part-time and only get paid during the season, but that is far more than the 1700 that are just players and coaches.

In fairness, those employees may not work for the NFL per se, but they work for the teams in the NFL.

These are the little people who are not making big dollars, but are needed for all to make there money, who represents them? Who is negotiating, or walking away from them?

Originally Posted by Coach

Also consider that the average NFL franchise is worth roughly $1 billion dollars. So in the example shown above that would equate to about a 2% return on their investment. And that is for a very popular and profitable team. That's a lot of risk for a very small return. Shame on the owners for wanting to make money. All I've sen so far are concessions by the owners. It's time for the players to get this deal done. You won't se the books, because you have no right to se the books.
IMO, This comes down to a fundamental problem of "Partner or Employee". The players union thinks they are partners. The owners view them as employees. As partners, they have the have the right view the books and a bigger piece of the pie. As employees, they do not. I personally believe they are employees. They don't take on the risk of the franchise. If it loses money they still get paid. The way I know they are employees, not partners, is because they sign the back of the paychecks, not the fronts. The players need to quit being greedy and get this deal done. Does anyone dispute that they are vastly overpaid? Does anyone believe that someone should get paid $25 million a year to throw a football while doctors, teachers, policeman, firemen, servicemen, and our president make only fractions of that?
The players need to have a Coke and a Smile and the shut the HELL up!

Maybe these top paid stars should share their endorsement deals with the business that made them what the are? Maybe they should give a percentage of that income to retired players that built the game? Maybe they do, I do not know. But I think plenty of money is being made by some players from the game of football, that maybe they should share with least fortunate players, after all their endorsements came from the game they where able to be play, built by those before. Maybe some of them should open their financial accounts for all to see.

I've read through most of the 'lockout' debate threads. I'm honestly torn, because those of you on opposing sides have valid points on both sides. On one hand I agree with the points in favor of owners, but on the other I agree with points in favor of players. I rarely have difficulty in choosing where I stand on an issue, but this is certainly one of those times. One day I'm in favor of the players, the next, the owners. They both have valid points & arguments, but it's a pitiful shame they can't simply be grateful for their blessings on both sides.

I'm having difficulty also with this issue, & the debates occurring among fans, media, etc....being solely focused on the money aspect. Some valid concerns & principles on both sides have been lost with the money aspect a primary focus for the majority.

This much I do know that I stand firm in my beliefs upon: we live in a free country, with wealth opportunities knocking at everyone's door at one point or another in life. Some begin their journey & focused efforts seeking fame & fortune in childhood, others adulthood, some inherit it, some come by it naturally in God given talents. Regardless, an individual has a free constitutional right to become 'legally' wealthy in America. Men, women, families...have been sacrificing body, limb, and life for such freedom. Condemning any one for being wealthy is unjust, greed however, is another matter, but is not within the point I'm wanting to make currently.

When we begin to resent those who have obtained wealth, or have a desire and/or belief that wealth should be restricted or limited, we begin to cross a line into socialism. Socialism fails, it destroy's societies overall.
Would you want to make major sacrifices, dedicate years of your life developing a talent, skill, education, career, business, but not be rewarded for such? Would you want to share your rewards with others who put forth no effort, made no sacrifce, or lessor effort & sacrifice? Based upon human nature I assure you, that most individuals are not willing to make sacrifices & put forth 100% in effort...if there is no personal gain or reward at the end.

Both the players and owners are entitled to their wealth...they've made the efforts & sacrifices necessary to obtain such. I'm tired, goodnight all, wishing for all no lockout nightmares, rather future Super Bowl Chiefs victory dreams.

"Official Chiefs Crowd / Historian/Correspondent / Ambassador"

"The greatest accomplishment is not in never falling, but in rising again after you fall. The real glory is being knocked to your knees and then coming back. That's real glory. That's the essence of it." ~Vince Lombardi~

I've read through most of the 'lockout' debate threads. I'm honestly torn, because those of you on opposing sides have valid points on both sides. On one hand I agree with the points in favor of owners, but on the other I agree with points in favor of players. I rarely have difficulty in choosing where I stand on an issue, but this is certainly one of those times. One day I'm in favor of the players, the next, the owners. They both have valid points & arguments, but it's a pitiful shame they can't simply be grateful for their blessings on both sides.

I'm having difficulty also with this issue, & the debates occurring among fans, media, etc....being solely focused on the money aspect. Some valid concerns & principles on both sides have been lost with the money aspect a primary focus for the majority.

This much I do know that I stand firm in my beliefs upon: we live in a free country, with wealth opportunities knocking at everyone's door at one point or another in life. Some begin their journey & focused efforts seeking fame & fortune in childhood, others adulthood, some inherit it, some come by it naturally in God given talents. Regardless, an individual has a free constitutional right to become 'legally' wealthy in America. Men, women, families...have been sacrificing body, limb, and life for such freedom. Condemning any one for being wealthy is unjust, greed however, is another matter, but is not within the point I'm wanting to make currently.

When we begin to resent those who have obtained wealth, or have a desire and/or belief that wealth should be restricted or limited, we begin to cross a line into socialism. Socialism fails, it destroy's societies overall.
Would you want to make major sacrifices, dedicate years of your life developing a talent, skill, education, career, business, but not be rewarded for such? Would you want to share your rewards with others who put forth no effort, made no sacrifce, or lessor effort & sacrifice? Based upon human nature I assure you, that most individuals are not willing to make sacrifices & put forth 100% in effort...if there is no personal gain or reward at the end.

Both the players and owners are entitled to their wealth...they've made the efforts & sacrifices necessary to obtain such. I'm tired, goodnight all, wishing for all no lockout nightmares, rather future Super Bowl Chiefs victory dreams.

CJ I do agree with you, but I am just piod about this whole thing, and from where I stand, the players planned to do this from the start, the owners have known that, because the former nflpa told them that what they where going to do it. The Owners tried to negotiate, but the players were set on the path they where going to go from the start, imo. There was no negotiation effort in good faith from the former nflpa, from the start. It is sad that is what it is.