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Topic: Casca's love for Guts (Read 18738 times)

There are several scenes where Casca shows her love for Guts. I think she's quite daring about it. Even more direct than Guts. But in the manga the two never say "I love you" : I think it's the Japanese way.In what scene do you feel Casca's love for Guts the most?For me, it's when she told Guts to leave after she decided to stay to take care of Griffith.She wanted to leave with Guts but couldn't abandon Griffith to his fate. But while she was willing to sacrifice her life, she didn't want Guts to sacrifice his, even though she'd clearly be miserable.

I love the scene between Guts and Casca where they're about to go into the secret passageway to rescue Griffith and Casca realizes Guts is worried about her. She starts telling him off and then looks back at him and reminds him that she can watch his back. I feel the love right there. She's saying they're a team and can take care of each other.

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A good sword, even if it rusts and dulls, has good steel that never rusts left over in the wick. That steel's the ultimate steel. Even if it cracks, if you return it to the fire, it's sure to be reborn. - Godot

There are quite a few moments that stick out to me. Those that have already been mentioned of course, but also when Casca walks to Guts' empty room and holds his broken sword to her face in volume 9. A wordless but very effective scene. Then there's when she runs to him after the fight with Wyald. Her whole behavior during that fight really shows how much she cares for him.

But in the manga the two never say "I love you" : I think it's the Japanese way.

Another part of this might also be these two character's personalities. They are both used to maintaining an outwardly tough persona and they are both very action oriented, maybe not so much the types to speak their love as just to show it. The fact that either of them let their guards down enough to become as intimate and open with each other as they did was such a big step for them. I really like that picture of them together that didn't appear in the context of the story, but was just on a page by itself, where Casca is climbing on Guts. Something about it makes me think of a male and female lion being playful and affectionate with each other. They are being sweet with each other, but something about their expressions tells me they are one dangerous pair! Both of them formidable warriors and not to be messed with.

But what also is notable is that their relationship was just beginning to blossom when their lives were irrevocably changed. I feel like there's a lot more to come between those two.

I definitely agree. They had just gotten started and there was so much crazy stuff going on, they didn't have much time to find out what a relationship between them would be like. Plus I think Casca still had some feelings for Griffith that needed sorting through. I think she loves Guts, but the fact that she was still feeling jealous of Charlotte during Griffith's rescue was an indication that she still had some things to put to rest as far as that went. Not surprising since she had been infatuated with Griffith for years. Of course that was pre-eclipse. After what Femto did to her and Guts, not to mention murdering the other members of the Band of the Falcon, I think her feelings for him will now be more like angry/confused/hurt/disappointed. When/if Casca regains her sanity she and Guts will have a lot of issues to deal with. It's not going to be easy for these two, but I really hope they can come to have a close and loving relationship again.

There are quite a few moments that stick out to me. Those that have already been mentioned of course, but also when Casca walks to Guts' empty room and holds his broken sword to her face in volume 9. A wordless but very effective scene.

I really like that one, too. Very poignant moment.

« Last Edit: April 20, 2015, 10:25:50 PM by JMP »

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A good sword, even if it rusts and dulls, has good steel that never rusts left over in the wick. That steel's the ultimate steel. Even if it cracks, if you return it to the fire, it's sure to be reborn. - Godot

The one scene I remember from the 95' anime showed Casca's love for Guts was when they were escaping from the tower Griffith was captured in. Guts was standing and holding his sword in the state of shock after killing all the guards. Then Casca wipes off the blood from him which had a calming effect.

There are several scenes where Casca shows her love for Guts. I think she's quite daring about it. Even more direct than Guts.

I agree with this, Casca was pretty daring about how she loves Guts. I think it is worthy of note that when Guts returns to the falcons after being gone for a a year Casca is the one that first initiates things between them. After Guts pulls her back to safety when she tried to commit suicide she makes the move to put her hand on his and lean into his body, telling him how foolish she thinks he is for always getting hurt on her behalf. This is pretty big as far as I'm concerned and it is important that it was Casca who did this soft tender action first. Guts knew he had feelings for Casca but knew she loved Griffith, he would never have done something like this first to Casca. I mean yeah he picked her up and carried her princess style after the battle of doldrey, but that still come off a relatively platonic compared to what Casca did. It is not until she makes this first physical action and her words that Guts even thinks to act on his own feelings. Go look at those panels again and see just how surprised he is by what Casca does. It is also worthy of note that (in the manga at least) Casca tries to kiss Guts first (and kisses his nose by accident in the process )

I love the anime version of them mutually kissing at the same time after looking into each others eyes, but Casca's going in for the kiss on the lips first rather surprised me the manga...it was a very sweet and tentative action on her part. And Guts looks so touched by her efforts, like he can barely believe what was going on. They both fumble around before they get it right. I know this seems like small details but since it is the build up to what comes after (their full on love scene) I think it is a very important detail for the depth of Casca's feelings that she would act on them first, especially considering their history together. It shows a tentative resolution that she would do that at all, and something I feel many fans have either over looked or forgotten over the years that Casca displayed a depth of fervent emotion toward Guts as he has toward her all these years in spite of her condition. I have seen people outside of Skullnet. accuse Casca of not being as devoted to Guts as he is to her and that she is torn between him and Griffith. But I think this small scene shows the purity Casca's feeling for Guts. And if she had not "made the first move" I guarantee that Guts would not have ever initiated anything on his own. He completely saw Casca as being devoted to Griffith and would not have intruded on that. I think when you consider all of this that says alot about Casca's feeling for Guts...in case any one had any doubts...

Interesting question. The obvious ones stick out to me -- their love scene and the moments leading up to it, her throwing leaves in Guts' face and talking sense to him.

But what also is notable is that their relationship was just beginning to blossom when their lives were irrevocably changed. I feel like there's a lot more to come between those two.

It really is quite sad, like you said, things turn for the worst when they have everything going for them. Guts gets mutilated and Casca reverts to a child-like state. And despite that Guts still loves the hell out of Casca, in episode 287 he says:

Despite that, he is still there willing to try to make things work.

In episode 288, Farnese questions Casca on why she is the way she is, despite Guts always endangering himself for her. I feel the exact same way as Farnese during the discourse.

In episode 288, Farnese questions Casca on why she is the way she is, despite Guts always endangering himself for her. I feel the exact same way as Farnese during the discourse.

This scene with Farnese lashing out at Casca reminds me strongly of Casca lashing out at Guts and her frustration of why Griffith favors him so much, back in the cave. Casca could not wrap her head around someone she viewed as a loose cannon and self centered could be held in such high regard by Griffith. Farnese here can't understand why with the kooky way Casca acts in her current state and how she gives Guts dirty looks all the time, what sway she has over Guts. Farnese views Casca as a lost cause and can't figure out why Guts is holding on to her so badly. Casca could not understand Guts sway over Griffith. I wonder if Miura was making a parallel between these two scenes? Farnese and Casca have so much in common it's amazing.

In episode 288, Farnese questions Casca on why she is the way she is, despite Guts always endangering himself for her. I feel the exact same way as Farnese during the discourse.

I'm surprised you feel that same as Farnese during this discourse, if I am understanding what you mean here, and that bis you don't get why Casca does not care for Guts. Unlike Farnese who has limited knowledge on what transpired during the eclipse to make Casca crazy and Guts brutality toward Casca in volume 23 which made her disdain him, we know these things transpired to make Casca the way she is right now. If Farnese knew these things she would not have been lashing out on Casca's behavior. Just like if Casca knew about Guts past she would have had more empathy for Guts behavior before even the cave scene during the golden age arc.

But to be on tract with the threads topic I am most interested in knowing how Casca is going to show her love for Guts once she is restored. His body has gotten a beaten and deteriorated since she last saw him. I am anxious to see how a restored Casca will tame Guts inner beast, or if she will get a chance to do so.

I'm surprised you feel that same as Farnese during this discourse, if I am understanding what you mean here, and that bis you don't get why Casca does not care for Guts. Unlike Farnese who has limited knowledge on what transpired during the eclipse to make Casca crazy and Guts brutality toward Casca in volume 23 which made her disdain him, we know these things transpired to make Casca the way she is right now. If Farnese knew these things she would not have been lashing out on Casca's behavior. Just like if Casca knew about Guts past she would have had more empathy for Guts behavior before even the cave scene during the golden age arc.

But to be on tract with the threads topic I am most interested in knowing how Casca is going to show her love for Guts once she is restored. His body has gotten a beaten and deteriorated since she last saw him. I am anxious to see how a restored Casca will tame Guts inner beast, or if she will get a chance to do so.

Speaking of the events that transpired between Guts and Casca during Volume 23, I really hope Miura doesn't gloss over the significance of Guts' sexual assault on Casca and the impact it should have on his and her relationship if/when Casca is eventually cured (especially if Casca retains her memories of her time when she was nonlucid). Like I can't imagine a restored Casca wanting to immediately resume a romantic relationship with Guts without first processing/working through the many complicated feelings/emotions both would have in regards to that incident.

Speaking of the events that transpired between Guts and Casca during Volume 23, I really hope Miura doesn't gloss over the significance of Guts' sexual assault on Casca and the impact it should have on his and her relationship if/when Casca is eventually cured (especially if Casca retains her memories of her time when she was nonlucid). Like I can't imagine a restored Casca wanting to immediately resume a romantic relationship with Guts without first processing/working through the many complicated feelings/emotions both would have in regards to that incident.

That's for sure. If she comes back, Casca wouldn't simply fall into Guts' arms. But, even if she remembers everything including that case (and her disdain for him as a result) I'd say she would look with another perspective, specially if she can understand Guts' inner Beast, and would probably like him much more than disgust him, as her love could forgive it. She'd just have to taker her time to set everything in it's place.

Seems a bit too dramatic that she'd just not let that eventualy pass or hate Guts, and Casca is not like that. She is emotional, but not a kid. Only in that state it makes sense for her to disgust him so much, there was nothing really positive for her in him, except that he was the only person arround while travelling and the fact she wasn't offended in any form. Not really much reason to like him.

This scene with Farnese lashing out at Casca reminds me strongly of Casca lashing out at Guts and her frustration of why Griffith favors him so much, back in the cave. Casca could not wrap her head around someone she viewed as a loose cannon and self centered could be held in such high regard by Griffith. Farnese here can't understand why with the kooky way Casca acts in her current state and how she gives Guts dirty looks all the time, what sway she has over Guts. Farnese views Casca as a lost cause and can't figure out why Guts is holding on to her so badly. Casca could not understand Guts sway over Griffith. I wonder if Miura was making a parallel between these two scenes?

The parallel is there, but I'd be hard-pressed to say whether it's intentional or just a coincidence. The two underlying situations are pretty different.

Speaking of the events that transpired between Guts and Casca during Volume 23, I really hope Miura doesn't gloss over the significance of Guts' sexual assault on Casca and the impact it should have on his and her relationship if/when Casca is eventually cured (especially if Casca retains her memories of her time when she was nonlucid). Like I can't imagine a restored Casca wanting to immediately resume a romantic relationship with Guts without first processing/working through the many complicated feelings/emotions both would have in regards to that incident.

Really, I think the issues they'll have to address will go way beyond that specific event. Also, please give Miura some credit, will you?

Seems a bit too dramatic that she'd just not let that eventualy pass or hate Guts, and Casca is not like that. She is emotional, but not a kid. Only in that state it makes sense for her to disgust him so much, there was nothing really positive for her in him, except that he was the only person arround while travelling and the fact she wasn't offended in any form. Not really much reason to like him.

And don't forget that she mistrusts all men by default. She only started tolerating Guts after he saved her during the Conviction arc.

Really, I think the issues they'll have to address will go way beyond that specific event. Also, please give Miura some credit, will you?

Oh, I don't deny that there will likely other issues, beyond what occurred in Volume 23, explored if/when Casca is restored, I was just stating my thoughts on one of the various issues that I think are pretty significant. And I certainly don't mean to under-credit or imply a lack of faith in Miura, I was just voicing my general narrative anxieties (which are more attributable to seeing other fans (off this site) dismiss the narrative significance that a recovered Casca would have).

Speaking of the events that transpired between Guts and Casca during Volume 23, I really hope Miura doesn't gloss over the significance of Guts' sexual assault on Casca and the impact it should have on his and her relationship if/when Casca is eventually cured (especially if Casca retains her memories of her time when she was nonlucid). Like I can't imagine a restored Casca wanting to immediately resume a romantic relationship with Guts without first processing/working through the many complicated feelings/emotions both would have in regards to that incident.

I actually hope that is exactly what is going to happen that the events in volume 23 will be glossed over. The last thing I want to see is Casca continuing to hold this incident against Guts. Yes, it was significant and I do not think that it's severity should be dismissed because it had held real consequences, but at the same time if this incident becomes an issue at all I would hope it would be to at least start a dialogue between Guts and Casca (or Casca, Guts and the elf King) about Guts own mental trauma due to the eclipse. I will be disappointed if Casca merely continues to grudge Guts and give dirty looks and verbally rebuke him. Maybe Casca will not be able to resume a physical relationship with Guts right away but I do not think it should mean she should continue to hate him like she has in her damaged regressed state where she is unable to evaluate the events that led up to it. I mean if she remembers that incident why would she not remember all the other things Guts has done to protect her at the expense of his own body and well being?

The parallel is there, but I'd be hard-pressed to say whether it's intentional or just a coincidence. The two underlying situations are pretty different.

Yeah you are right, it is probably not Miura's intention to make a clear mirror parallel between these two events I just thought the ferocity of both Casca and Farnese in these situations seemed similar because they both could not understand why the person they where yelling at acted the way they did and was easily forgiven for that. I was also trying to say that I strongly feel that if Farnese had been aware of what had transpired between Guts and Casca in volume 23 or the events of the eclipse that made her the way she is now, that Farnese would not have gone off on her in a bath like she did. If she knew why Casca acts coldly toward Guts or that she mentally regressed due to rape she might have more been more understanding of why Casca does not seem to understand the lengths Guts goes to for her sake and probably would not have lashed out at her.

I actually hope that is exactly what is going to happen that the events in volume 23 will be glossed over. The last thing I want to see is Casca continuing to hold this incident against Guts. Yes, it was significant and I do not think that it's severity should be dismissed because it had held real consequences, but at the same time if this incident becomes an issue at all I would hope it would be to at least start a dialogue between Guts and Casca (or Casca, Guts and the elf King) about Guts own mental trauma due to the eclipse. I will be disappointed if Casca merely continues to grudge Guts and give dirty looks and verbally rebuke him. Maybe Casca will not be able to resume a physical relationship with Guts right away but I do not think it should mean she should continue to hate him like she has in her damaged regressed state where she is unable to evaluate the events that led up to it. I mean if she remembers that incident why would she not remember all the other things Guts has done to protect her at the expense of his own body and well being?

Just because I don't think the events in volume 23 should be glossed over (as in not addressed in any manner or have the ) doesn't mean I never want Guts and Casca to mend their relationship and Casca to be forever resentful of Guts. But for the narrative to completely ignored/dismiss the significance of such a incident would be very poor character writing on Miura's part IMO. And yes, I too also hope Guts and Casca can start a dialogue on their shared mental trauma, but as even Guts himself agrees, that should not excuse Guts' sexual assault against Casca. I just want the incident to be acknowledged and have the proper narrative/emotional consequences for a mentally restored Casca and Guts' relationship, which can then be worked through by the two of them. And even if in the end, Casca feels that she doesn't want to resume a romantic relationship with Guts (which I personally really doubt will happen) that's a valid choice for her to make that she shouldn't be rebuked for (as even if Guts has protected and sacrificed so much for Casca's safety, he still sexually assaulted her and is not entitled to a romantic relationship with Casca).

Oh, I don't deny that there will likely other issues, beyond what occurred in Volume 23, explored if/when Casca is restored, I was just stating my thoughts on one of the various issues that I think are pretty significant. And I certainly don't mean to under-credit or imply a lack of faith in Miura, I was just voicing my general narrative anxieties (which are more attributable to seeing other fans (off this site) dismiss the narrative significance that a recovered Casca would have).

But Casca's narrative significance isn't tied to a continued resentment of Guts, far from it. In fact I certainly hope she will have a much bigger and much more interesting role than that, because that's the exact same role she's been having since the Eclipse. Fortunately, their relationship really has much more going on than that.

I actually hope that is exactly what is going to happen that the events in volume 23 will be glossed over. The last thing I want to see is Casca continuing to hold this incident against Guts. Yes, it was significant and I do not think that it's severity should be dismissed because it had held real consequences, but at the same time if this incident becomes an issue at all I would hope it would be to at least start a dialogue between Guts and Casca (or Casca, Guts and the elf King) about Guts own mental trauma due to the eclipse. I will be disappointed if Casca merely continues to grudge Guts and give dirty looks and verbally rebuke him. Maybe Casca will not be able to resume a physical relationship with Guts right away but I do not think it should mean she should continue to hate him like she has in her damaged regressed state where she is unable to evaluate the events that led up to it. I mean if she remembers that incident why would she not remember all the other things Guts has done to protect her at the expense of his own body and well being?

I think "glossed over" might be too dismissive, but I agree with the general sentiment. Like I said in the podcast thread, that event has already been playing a determinant role for many years. Staying hung up on it would feel restrictive, especially since there are so many more things weighing in the balance for them. The simple fact they have both become different people in a different world already means their relationship will by necessity be different from what it was. Their respective trauma, the conflicting way in which they dealt with it, their individual goals, their son... It's kind of obvious but like you said, I expect them to establish a dialogue that will go on for a good long while and contribute to their respective growth, eventually culminating not in a patched up romantic relationship, but in a new one altogether. It would be beautiful and rewarding to see her fall in love with him again.

Yeah you are right, it is probably not Miura's intention to make a clear mirror parallel between these two events I just thought the ferocity of both Casca and Farnese in these situations seemed similar because they both could not understand why the person they where yelling at acted the way they did and was easily forgiven for that. I was also trying to say that I strongly feel that if Farnese had been aware of what had transpired between Guts and Casca in volume 23 or the events of the eclipse that made her the way she is now, that Farnese would not have gone off on her in a bath like she did. If she knew why Casca acts coldly toward Guts or that she mentally regressed due to rape she might have more been more understanding of why Casca does not seem to understand the lengths Guts goes to for her sake and probably would not have lashed out at her.

Well I certainly agree that the situations are comparable, in fact I've myself made that observation before. About Farnese's behavior had she known the whole story, obviously that didn't happen but in all likeliness her attitude would have indeed been different. That being said, don't forget to factor in Farnese's unrequited feelings for Guts and the jealousness that results from his affection for Casca despite her disdain. That frustration is also at the core of her outburst.

But for the narrative to completely ignored/dismiss the significance of such a incident would be very poor character writing on Miura's part IMO.

Why is that even being considered again? I thought you weren't lacking in faith regarding Miura's abilities? Because clearly your argument here is based on the supposition that Miura would in an incredible reversal of his previous 25+ years of work on the series suddenly become "very poor at character writing".

And even if in the end, Casca feels that she doesn't want to resume a romantic relationship with Guts (which I personally really doubt will happen) that's a valid choice for her to make that she shouldn't be rebuked for (as even if Guts has protected and sacrificed so much for Casca's safety, he still sexually assaulted her and is not entitled to a romantic relationship with Casca).

This not only goes without saying but is really completely off topic, and frankly quite patronizing and in poor taste coming from a man speaking to a woman. Our goal here isn't to use Guts and Casca's relationship as a text-book example of "no means no", and bringing it into the argument out of the blue feels really cheap.

But Casca's narrative significance isn't tied to a continued resentment of Guts, far from it. In fact I certainly hope she will have a much bigger and much more interesting role than that, because that's the exact same role she's been having since the Eclipse. Fortunately, their relationship really has much more going on than that.

I agree Casca's narrative significance shouldn't tied to a continued resentment of Guts, I am just arguing that the issues between Guts and Casca that could viably cause resentment need/should be worked through before other roles and dynamics are explored.

Why is that even being considered again? I thought you weren't lacking in faith regarding Miura's abilities? Because clearly your argument here is based on the supposition that Miura would in an incredible reversal of his previous 25+ years of work on the series suddenly become "very poor at character writing".

As I said in other threads I can have faith in Miura's storytelling ability while having some anxiety/being prepared to critique a writer's future potential narrative choices. And regardless I was more specifically responding to Vixen Comics statement that she hopes Miura " glosses over" (which even you said sounds kinda dismissive) the events of Volume 23.

This not only goes without saying but is really completely off topic, and frankly quite patronizing and in poor taste coming from a man speaking to a woman. Our goal here isn't to use Guts and Casca's relationship as a text-book example of "no means no", and bringing it into the argument out of the blue feels really cheap.

I didn't mean to be patronizing or be in poor taste that was not my intention. The reason why I felt it necessary to mention it is because it is very common (at least personally) to see opinions around the web (off this site typically) that demean and devalue Casca, to the point of disregarding/dismissing her own trauma, usually in some egregious manner of trying to prop up/praise Guts' character. It was not my intention to implicate Vixen Comics with such opinions/individuals, I was merely stating an addendum to my thoughts, it wasn't wasn't my intention to implicate it as part of my debate with Vixen Comics.

I agree Casca's narrative significance shouldn't tied to a continued resentment of Guts, I am just arguing that the issues between Guts and Casca that could viably cause resentment need/should be worked through before other roles and dynamics are explored.

Why before and not along with? It will just be part of the natural process of getting to know each other again. Either way, it's pretty obvious.

I didn't mean to be patronizing or be in poor taste that was not my intention. The reason why I felt it necessary to mention it is because it is very common (at least personally) to see opinions around the web (off this site typically) that demean and devalue Casca, to the point of disregarding/dismissing her own trauma, usually in some egregious manner of trying to prop up/praise Guts' character. It was not my intention to implicate Vixen Comics with such opinions/individuals, I was merely stating an addendum to my thoughts, it wasn't wasn't my intention to implicate it as part of my debate with Vixen Comics.

I understand, but that's how it came across regardless and whatever you've read elsewhere on the Internet does not excuse it. Please be mindful of that in the future.

Why before and not along with? It will just be part of the natural process of getting to know each other again. Either way, it's pretty obvious.

Well, I should rephrase myself, you're right said issues can be worked through while new roles/themes are also being explored at the same time, I just expect, due to narrative convention, the aforementioned issues to be among some the first things discussed and explored with Guts and Casca.

But... no. No you can't. That goes contrary to what "having faith" means.

To quote my response in the other thread: I am saying that I do believe Miura will tell his story well/properly (I'm like 98% confident that he will), but It think one can hold that belief while still acknowledging the possibility that he isn't infallible as storyteller (the 2% anxiety). I don't think I need to believe that Miura will always do right 100% of the time in order to claim a general faith in his abilities.

To quote my response in the other thread: I am saying that I do believe Miura will tell his story well/properly (I'm like 98% confident that he will), but It think one can hold that belief while still acknowledging the possibility that he isn't infallible as storyteller (the 2% anxiety). I don't think I need to believe that Miura will always do right 100% of the time in order to claim a general faith in his abilities.

But I told you that in the first place because your entire argument rests on the assumption he will not do the characters justice, which is absolutely unfair and unwarranted given that the issue you say you don't want to see ignored is one he created and made central to the current relationship between Guts and Casca in the first place.

But I told you that in the first place because your entire argument rests on the assumption he will not do the characters justice, which is absolutely unfair and unwarranted given that the issue you say you don't want to see ignored is one he created and made central to the current relationship between Guts and Casca in the first place.

My intention for my original post/argument that I made on this topic in the thread was to just voice my anxieties (and my thoughts relating to them) over the possibility that Miura might fumble on said issues, regardless of how unlikely I think it is that he would. It was not my intention to imply that my anxieties were my default assumption/expectation of of what I believe will occur. I am sorry that I did not properly convey that in my original post.

My intention for my original post/argument that I made on this topic in the thread was to just voice my anxieties (and my thoughts relating to them) over the possibility that Miura might fumble on said issues, regardless of how unlikely I think it is that he would. It was not my intention to imply that my anxieties were my default assumption/expectation of of what I believe will occur. I am sorry that I did not properly convey that in my original post.

Alright, although I must say, I don't think a thread devoted to discussing how Casca has shown her love for Guts in the story was the best place for it.