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the implied possibility, however, would be quite funny - that someone would create an anonymous online persona where they would lie about their history

nah - if you think about it - i am kinda talking my position - as I happen to believe that I got handed the short end of the stick when it came to probabilities. Which should be a warning to everybody - no matter how unlikely, you can still get the virus.

the implied possibility, however, would be quite funny - that someone would create an anonymous online persona where they would lie about their history

nah - if you think about it - i am kinda talking my position - as I happen to believe that I got handed the short end of the stick when it came to probabilities. Which should be a warning to everybody - no matter how unlikely, you can still get the virus.

See the thing is, I don't think it was that unlikely at all. You're attempting to rationalize risk assessment and you are living proof that it doesn't work.

See the thing is, I don't think it was that unlikely at all. You're attempting to rationalize risk assessment and you are living proof that it doesn't work.

I don't think you are in position to quantify how likely something is without knowing any details.

Here is a question - do you think the likelihood of getting the virus is higher based on how many partners a person had? Do you think it depends on whether one has gay or straight sex? Whether the sex act is paid for? How many partners the other person has had in last 6 months?

I don't think you are in position to quantify how likely something is without knowing any details.

Here is a question - do you think the likelihood of getting the virus is higher based on how many partners a person had? Do you think it depends on whether one has gay or straight sex? Whether the sex act is paid for? How many partners the other person has had in last 6 months?

Your likelihood of acquiring the virus is the same. Are you literally saying you think this is a gay disease? Cause that's what I'm hearing.

I don't think you are in position to quantify how likely something is without knowing any details.

Here is a question - do you think the likelihood of getting the virus is higher based on how many partners a person had? Do you think it depends on whether one has gay or straight sex? Whether the sex act is paid for? How many partners the other person has had in last 6 months?

:: le sigh ::

Here we go again. Wasn't that horse beaten nuff already in aprevious thread? This conversation has the depth of a bottle cap.

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"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Here is a question - do you think the likelihood of getting the virus is higher based on how many partners a person had? Do you think it depends on whether one has gay or straight sex? Whether the sex act is paid for? How many partners the other person has had in last 6 months?

None of this matters if you're using condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse. You can have as many partners you want of whatever sexual orientation takes your fancy and pay them (or not), so long as you use condoms. Duh.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Here is a question - do you think the likelihood of getting the virus is higher based on how many partners a person had? Do you think it depends on whether one has gay or straight sex? Whether the sex act is paid for? How many partners the other person has had in last 6 months?

I think you lack basic understanding of probability that is required for having a conversation about this topic. Hence you would just be offended, which is not my goal.

I'm confused on how lacking knowledge regarding statistics, has any meaning to this discussion, because you, yourself, are implying so many assumptions, as to render any statistical analysis meaningless. The four questions you asked, have answers that are so varied, depending in which community, they are asked, as to just add confusion to the discussion. You seem to assume that everyone tells the truth, when history has shown us, that concerning HIV, the truth can be very transient. It feels to me, as if you are trying to reduce the thoughts in this thread, into numbers and you just can't look at only one aspect.

Also, I find your demeanor and the way you ask and answer queries, to be rather condescending and very confrontational, as if, you are merely looking down, from your ivory tower, while casting your pearls before swine.

I'm confused on how lacking knowledge regarding statistics, has any meaning to this discussion, because you, yourself, are implying so many assumptions, as to render any statistical analysis meaningless. The four questions you asked, have answers that are so varied, depending in which community, they are asked, as to just add confusion to the discussion. You seem to assume that everyone tells the truth, when history has shown us, that concerning HIV, the truth can be very transient. It feels to me, as if you are trying to reduce the thoughts in this thread, into numbers and you just can't look at only one aspect.

Also, I find your demeanor and the way you ask and answer queries, to be rather condescending and very confrontational, as if, you are merely looking down, from your ivory tower, while casting your pearls before swine.

I don't see how this is difficult - the simple answer is that each positive Answer increases the chances that a given sexual encounter may result in transmission. (And of course wearing a condom reduces those chances to near zero, as rightly pointed out by Ann). All of us took a chance at some point - and all scored, regardless of the likelihood of it happening.

I'm sorry if I I came across condescending or confrontational - this is not my intent. But methinks it's the message that some may find difficult to accept. I don't find my tone to be materially different from the observed average in threads where people disagree.

That's the beauty of the English language - we often have so many different words that mean basically the same thing, but carry different nuances with which we can be more precise in getting the meaning of our thoughts across.

I most certainly did not deserve my infection. But was I responsible for my infection? Absolutely. Very different nuance.

A nuance isn't "very different" but it is notable. I agree with you. That is why I said an striaght HIV- guy might be clumsy with words. That guy on the talk show, after a bit of discussion, would probably be content with the word "responsible". People are responsible for their actions and choices.

We can see all the nuances but the public cannot. We can educate them to see if the meanness is clumsiness or naivite or stupidity or whatever. Or just let it slide.

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ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

This Karel the only Openly Gay (political) Radio Talk Show host that I know of

has not responded. I just emailed green960.com a great station usually the folowing and await their response:"I alerted the people at poz.com and before I go with this to Gay City News, Advocate, Out, etc. I want to confirm if on last night's Karel show did he say people that contract HIV deserve to get it if they got it sexually?

Is the show downloadable so we can quote him? (it was at about 8:10pm EST) THANK YOU!"

I know you will all tell me to repeat "responsible " 1000 times but as a newcomer and a person that is verry responsible, I thought this question was fair as I understand what Gay Karel means from his "clean drug and disease free" gay perspective, but it doesn't seem like the right thing to say. But gays have always rejected me since seroconversion, just in a polite way. So much for disclosure LOL, but I wouldn't do it any other way.

-- Thank you all for these forums. I am 10 years w/undetectable hiv on same regimen with 50% cd4 percentage!

I know you will all tell me to shut up and repeat "responsible " 1000x but as a newcomer here I thought this question was fair as I understand what Gay Karel means, but it doesn't seem like the right thing to say. But gays have always rejected me since seroconversion, just in a polite way. So much for disclosure LOL

-- Thank you all for these forums. I am 10 years w/undetectable hiv on same regimen with 50% cd4 percentage!

"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

While I can empathize with your disdain for this radio jock and his choice of words, why does this bother you so much? He's just another guy, spewing his opinion, as ugly as it may appear, but again, why do you care so much? The only opinions I care about, are those from people whom I respect, know personally or who know me. Anyone else, has no real basis to form an opinion on me, so why would I care what they think?

rave on Reverend and of course a statement can affect one emotionallyplus he's on the f'ing RADIO with truthseekers and that truth just doesn't speak to me as does neither a daddy in the sky god figure totally made up by humankind (god etc. where all religions try to be right over nothing even kill for it ugh) but i am SURE this MIGHT have been discussed "here" already.

If that is the case I apologize and I will seek the link to where by, I know I know, a simple keyword search

LOL

off to theatre!

and i will seek to be impervious to such reactions! even here......................speculating

rave on Reverend and of course a statement can affect one emotionallyplus he's on the f'ing RADIO with truthseekers and that truth just doesn't speak to me as does neither a daddy in the sky god figure totally made up by humankind (god etc. where all religions try to be right over nothing even kill for it ugh) but i am SURE this MIGHT have been discussed "here" already.

If that is the case I apologize and I will seek the link to where by, I know I know, a simple keyword search

LOL

off to theatre!

and i will seek to be impervious to such reactions! even here......................speculating

I'm no psych doctor, but have you ever taken a quiz on what qualifies one as ADHD? I'm just asking, no real reason.

yes hellraiser cognitive behavioral therapy starts on tuesday for me so good call you wild one (you a doctor?)thanks for your deliciously sassy diagnosis

life is so precious i hate that i still have times of inefficient anger internalized duhoften a reaction to others so it is time to go back to reading and No Radio Talk show hostsand more dinners with friends

in the meantime i will not castigate gay men due to one gay radio host and whatever past experiences i had too bad for me

i will move on thanks to you all. Further fortified by realizing all the crap i was typing was pure negative banter

Hellraiser: Yes is the answer to your Q. Thank you for your concern. Yes:

off with my issues finally finding <$200 session for CBT on Tuesday and Thursday afternoon sessions for 6 months to 9 months

fingers crossed that i will never cross into those self-destructive anger zones and fail to appreciate life at every moment possible and more specifically on this issue that binds us here -- that i will never disprespect again by such negative banter those that have gone before us each with their own struggle and many responsible for us being here today fighting for better medicines to combat this retrovirus at all it's stages of replication.

I'm no psych doctor, but have you ever taken a quiz on what qualifies one as ADHD? I'm just asking, no real reason.

with psychiatrist seen since the post-traumatic AIDS disorder, quizzed along the lines of wiki's"DSM-IV criteriaIA. Six or more of the following signs of inattention have been present for at least 6 months to a point that is disruptive and inappropriate for developmental level:Inattention:Often does not give close attention to details or makes careless mistakes in schoolwork, work, or other activities.Often has trouble keeping attention on tasks or play activities.Often does not seem to listen when spoken to directly.Often does not follow instructions and fails to finish schoolwork, chores, or duties in the workplace (not due to oppositional behavior or failure to understand instructions).Often has trouble organizing activities.Often avoids, dislikes, or doesn't want to do things that take a lot of mental effort for a long period of time (such as schoolwork or homework).Often loses things needed for tasks and activities (such as toys, school assignments, pencils, books, or tools).Is often easily distracted.Often forgetful in daily activities.IB. Six or more of the following signs of hyperactivity-impulsivity have been present for at least 6 months to an extent that is disruptive and inappropriate for developmental level:Hyperactivity:Often fidgets with hands or feet or squirms in seat.Often gets up from seat when remaining in seat is expected.Often runs about or climbs when and where it is not appropriate (adolescents or adults may feel very restless).Often has trouble playing or enjoying leisure activities quietly.Is often "on the go" or often acts as if "driven by a motor".Often talks excessively.Impulsiveness:Often blurts out answers before questions have been finished. (See: NAQT)Often has trouble waiting one's turn.Often interrupts or intrudes on others (example: butts into conversations or games).II. Some signs that cause impairment were present before age 7 years.III. Some impairment from the signs is present in two or more settings (such as at school/work and at home).IV. There must be clear evidence of significant impairment in social, school, or work functioning.V. The signs do not happen only during the course of a Pervasive Developmental Disorder, Schizophrenia, or other Psychotic Disorder. The signs are not better accounted for by another mental disorder (such as Mood Disorder, Anxiety Disorder, Dissociative Identity Disorder, or a Personality Disorder)

Why is probability so hard to grasp? The probability that a gay guy in a park has HIV is a thousand (million?) times higher than a 19yr old girl who says she is a virgin to her bf.

She might be lying and she might be a nympho - but the guy in the park already displays numerous qualities that make his HIV status very likely.

Of course the gay guy in the park might be a virgin and the girl might be poz and a nympho too... I think that the reality is that when you go to places where anonymous sex is the soup de jour you are likely to need to contend with STD's. HIV is an STD for the most part, unless you shoot up with shared needles in which case it is a recreational hazard.

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Don't obsess over the wrong things. Life isn't about your numbers, it isn't about this forum, it isn't about someone's opinion. It's about getting out there and enjoying it. I am a person with HIV - not the other way around.

EEKYC: Darling any a**hole can get on the air and call themselves a "media personality." Please don't let some a**hole on the air influence your self-esteem. Chances are that the empty b***turd (misspell intentional) has self-esteem issues of his own.

NOBODY *deserves* HIV. Not if you are a hooker who thinks rubbers cause anal warts (even though they don't).

Now, as a few others pointed out. It's *my* fault that I have HIV. That doesn't mean I deserve it... it just means that when we play the blame game... I'm it. Nobody made me have unsafe sex... which quite frankly was enjoyable. Shock! Yes, I enjoyed it.

I'm reading this really interesting book called "Unlimited Intimacy: Relfections on the Subculture of Barebacking by Tim Dean" His research backs up my observations that bareback sex is a hell of alot more common. I once had a conversation with someone who will go unnamed, but who was responsible for doing outreach and education for GAYS (which also includes men who have sex with men.... which is still GAY sex.). He admitted to me that he didn't even practice safe sex all the time. (****)! This guy signs the budget for HIV testing and education in a large metropolitan city and it was his job to convince people that safe GAY sex was a good thing.... if he isn't eating the dog food who the hell is?

While there aren't many things that I like about religion in the context of a sexual conversation.. there is one quote I do admire..... I believe it was attributed to Jesus: "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." to which I would add "better not be any stones flying around here!" That sums it up nicely and jerkwad on the air is just another example of what I call "though pollution" that passes for modern broadcast radio.

Just in case you had never thought about it... Here is the radio business model in a nutshell. Sell influence over the public to businesses and special interests (a type of business) by using content (songs, personalities, controversy) as bait.

It's not unlike print media, save that print media uses intelligent content instead of songs.... which could arguably be intelligent content..... until you listent to them.

PBS and it's minions are the only media that is arguably non-profit, and even then by the very nature of opinion it's content is biased. So in essence there is no perfect answer.

About the only thing you can do is turn the radio off, shout at it, tell yourself that "This a**hole has no power over me and he's an ignorant piece of **** (insert your favorite four letter word here.... hint - goes well with toilet paper)."

Now, if you are a poo stirrer like some of us, you might send him an email an offer to show him around. There are only a few things that I ever remember as being distinctly taboo in gay culture.... one of which was telling people with HIV that they deserved it.... and another was telling someone they would wind up poz.... so I'm not gonna tell you to tell him either... but I'm just sayin that some people have to learn their lessons the very hard way and that he might need a friend one day to help him navigate the living hell of crap that us heathens go through to get meds, healthcare, and counseling. The only thing better than telling someone "I told you so" is knowing that they know you want to say it but won't because your a nice guy.

Lastly, You give a damn or you wouldn't post here and respond. That's a good thing. Just take it one day at a time and realize that you are a good person. Learn to love yourself for who you are, as you are, with your faults, and your strengths. After all, if you don't love you, who else will? Whether you are fat or athletic, pretty or homely, short or tall, fat or skinny... you pretty much are who you are and like a game of poker it's difficult to change your hand. So the sooner you accept what you have to work with and realize that pretty much everyone has self-esteem issues the sooner you can make the best out of what life has dealt you and enjoy each day to it's potential. Some people never learn that lesson and they manifest themselves as a blowhard piece of (****) <insert 4 letter word that goes with Toilet Paper> on the air masquerading as some gay pariah of knowledge.

Welcome to the forums and remember the only thing you can do with (****) is flush when you move on to some other productive activity.

« Last Edit: June 22, 2010, 07:21:56 PM by hotpuppy »

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Don't obsess over the wrong things. Life isn't about your numbers, it isn't about this forum, it isn't about someone's opinion. It's about getting out there and enjoying it. I am a person with HIV - not the other way around.

Wow hotpuppy i just read you reply and I Thank you for helping me prevent the quick switch to self hatred i get esp with gay men making mocking statements etc and certainly do not call after disclosure.

but i realize hov poz men can do that too duh!

as for the poo sti -- I did send "Karel" AND green960.com station that I listed to him on that also carries Randi Rhodes (a Lady Bunny favorite as well as mine) and the Excellent Truth Seeker Mike Malloy afterwards. (SO that's what had made me especially pissed)

I love their green960 station BASED in San Francsico BUT THEY ALSO NEVER EVEN form-letter returned my email. WTF do they care about hiv ex-fags in 2010 right?

But i would like to say thank you again for helping me make this "Pride" weekend much more celebrate-able for me. Have a good one yourself and see you around!