If you had told me that an ex-Steeler would tweet something stupid re: current events

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I read the Bible as much as I follow the Steelers and enjoy the discussion. I've experienced the transformational power of the story and seen it change so many people for the better. So I am happy to hear that it's done the same for you. To answer your questions, I'd frame them with this thought - if we try to earn our salvation through our deeds, we are disregarding the fact that JC died on the cross for all sin. Galatians 2:19-21

I'm in agreement with you there. Ephesians 2:8-9 says it's by grace we're saved, through faith, and not of ourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. However, that truth in no way gives license to excuse or justify or condone or practice sin. Romans 6:1 says, "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who dies to sin live any longer in it?" Salvation in Christ is salvation from sin, and results in change. The genuinely saved one is a new creation (2 Corinthians 5:17), with a whole new relationship to sin (read Romans 6 and the book of 1 John). 1 Cor. 6:9-11 says, "Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. And such WERE some of you, but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justfied in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God." This doesn't mean the Christian doesn't ever slip up and commit sin (see 1 John 1:8-10). But my identity has been changed, I have a new nature, and I have a new direction in my life. I have not attained perfection, but I sure have changed direction.

Originally Posted by flippy

With that in mind, we must be careful not to take other items out this context. Remember the Bible is made of many books written by many writers over many periods in history and the instructions written to a specific group at a specific time for a specific reason. Often our tendency is to read one of the books or chapters or passages and try to apply it to now and sometimes the context of the time period does not carry over.

You have to interpret the part in light of the whole. Each verse or portion must be taken in view of its immediate context, as well as the context of the whole Bible. That said, there is a remarkable consistency and unity to the message. As you study through it honestly, you figure out, for example, that we are no longer required to do animal sacrifices (because Christ was the once-and-for-all sacrifice for us, Hebrews 10:4, 10-14, 1. We no longer are under the ceremonial requirements of the Law (food, drink, festivals, new moons and Sabbaths, Colossians 2:16-17) which were a "shadow" but the "substance" is Christ. But there are other commands that we are to follow (1 John 5:3). This is not working to earn my salvation; this is loving the God who saved me.

Originally Posted by flippy

Many Christians look at the Bible as God's divine word. So they want to take everything literally. But consider that the passages from different books written in different eras often contradict other passages in other books. So the only way it makes sense to read any of the books is in the context of the time and people that each book was written for. This is very hard and difficult because 1. we don't understand the language of the original text so many things are unclear 2. we need to study the history of the time in which the books were written to get real insight into why things are written the way they were and 3. the books in the Bible are not in chronological order - for example Job is the oldest book in the Bible, but man put Genesis first - why? Wouldn't God want you to hear his divine word in the order he revealed it?

First, I've studied many of the so-called "contradictions" and found that they really are not. I'd be happy to try to take on specific cases. As far as order in the Bible, Genesis was put first because it is the book of beginnings (that's what Genesis means). Though it may have been penned after Job, Genesis goes back to give history from before the time of Job...in fact, it goes clear back to creation. That's because we need an understanding of how everything began in order to understand what happened later. Yes, there are some things that are hard to understand, and yes, it helps to learn about the history and culture of the times in which the books of the Bible were written. But for the most part, I don't think it's as difficult to understand the Bible as we often make it. If God wanted to have a relationship with us, then wouldn't He write a Book that was accessible? There is plenty that we can understand...with a little work, and the illumination of His Spirit, we can grow in our understanding of the Scriptures.

Originally Posted by flippy

Here's another way to look at it. When the Bible story originated, people thought the Earth was flat. No true, but their perspective. They didn't understand science, philosophy, medicine, etc like we do today. So a lot of the instruction don't really apply. I'm not saying this means God has changed or his message has changed in any way, just that his instructions to us have varied over time based on our limited understandings and what we needed to stay healthy, happy, safe, etc.

The people who thought the earth was flat did not get it from the Bible...it teaches that the earth is round. Isaiah 40:22 says that God "sits above the circle of the earth." See also Job 26:10. Job notes that the earth is hung in empty space (Job 26:7), and that it turns on its axis (Job 38:12). Prior to Galileo, scientists thought there were only around 1000 stars, but the Bible says they are innumerable (Jeremiah 33:22). Since He is the God who declares "the end from the beginning, and from ancient times things that are not yet done" (Isaiah 46:10), He was able to write a Book that still applies to our lives today.

Now let's consider, what is sin? We could spend forever going through the Bible indefinitely to come up with a list. And we'd come up with a complex and contradictory list. And each of our lists would be different based on our interpretations and experiences. It's an impossible experiment. It's pretty much the struggle of the Old Testament. The Pharisees and Sadducees of Jesus time knew the law as well as anyone possibly could. But as Jesus taught them, they missed the spirit of the law. Over and over again. And the more we try to drill into the specifics of the Bible, the more we become like the Pharisees and Sadducees - missing the big picture. It's impossible. It's too complex to achieve salvation through our works. This is why JC died on the cross. To cover all of this complexity and perfection we were chasing. We cannot achieve it. We cannot understand it.

Jesus died to save us from our sins. We are not saved through our works. Sin is missing God's mark, coming short of His glory (Romans 3:23), and it is the problem. It's what we need to be saved from. But in His word, God defines what sin is. He is very clear, and as you read through the New Testament, you can't miss the things that are pointed out as wrongs. The problem of the Pharisees and Sadducees is that they tried, through their traditions and teachings, to modify what God had said. In so doing, they ended up with an impossibly complex, burdensome system of religion (Matthew 23:4). Jesus told them they made the word of God "of no effect through your tradition" (Mark 7:13). In contrast, 1 John 5:3 says, "For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome." Notice, it doesn't say they're not clear...but rather, that they're not burdensome.

Originally Posted by flippy

So how do we live our lives. Simply faith for the Christian.

Yes, but how does faith come? Faith comes by hearing the word of God, Romans 10:17. Jesus said, "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God" (Luke 4:4).

Originally Posted by flippy

But we don't get off that easy. We can't get by on cheap faith with no cost. Yet at the same time there are no actions we can take to earn our way to salvation.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by flippy

So to keep it simple, I think Matthew 22:37-40 sums it up for us. Love God with all your heart and Love Your Neighbor as yourself. If anyone asks themselves if they are doing this and they honestly believe that they are and feel like their lives are in harmony with God, there's no sin happening.

If we were truly fulfilling Matthew 22:37-40, we wouldn't be sinning. The problem is, our hearts can deceive us. Even though I may feel like I'm not sinning, I can be reading through my Bible (I've had this experience) and suddenly be confronted with a sin that is all too present in my life. In His word, God gets specific about what things are sins; we need that because of our easily-deceived hearts...otherwise, He could have just stopped with Matthew 22:37-40.

Originally Posted by flippy

Ultimately sin is separation from God. How can you be separated from God if you're loving him with all your heart and loving all of his creation?

Yes, but again, we have hearts that can be deceived...I have, at times, thought I was "loving God and loving His creation," only to have the Scriptures suddenly show me some sin present in my life that I need to repent of. I have found that I often need to pray, "Search me, O God, and know my heart; try me and know my thoughts, and see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting" (Psalm 139:23-24).

Originally Posted by flippy

God doesn't care if you're hetero or homo? I don't think so. He cares about your faith. We're all gonna sin. We're all gonna screw up. What may be a sin for me, might not be a sin for you. And vice versa.

Flip, His word is clear about certain things that are sins for everyone. And He does care about sin in our lives. He doesn't suggest holiness as an optional lifestyle for us, but rather He says, "as He who has called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, because it is written, 'Be holy, for I am holy'" (1 Peter 1:15-16).

Originally Posted by flippy

It boils down to does my thought, action, etc. separate me from God in some way? Think about it from the perspective of God being a father. You could be the ugliest or worst kid in the world, but your father is only going to see the good in you. Getting hung up in the details misses the boat on the big picture which goes back to us no being in control. Just accept the gift of JC's sacrafice through faith and live in harmony with God and you will be without separation from him.

What you are missing in this description is that God, being a loving Father, wants His saved child to be the best he/she can be. Yes, God accepts that one in Christ, but He wants to see that one changed; He wants to conform that one to the image of His Son (Romans 8:29). That means I cannot go on with sin the way I used to before I was saved. God won't allow it. He is at work, sanctifying me. But as one who is in Christ, I take comfort in His promise that I can never be separated from His love (Romans 8:31-39).

Originally Posted by flippy

The reason we want to focus on the specifics is often because we still want to be in control. And that's idolatry. Let go. Don't worry about tomorrow. Don't get hung up on yesterday. Just live in the here and now and stay in contact with God and where he's leading you. And if you're in constant contact, you can't sin. Gay, straight, yellow, or green. God did all the work. Nothing we can do. Just enjoy it.

God is in control. I've accepted that He is God and I'm not. And I'm mighty thankful for that! But I'm told in Romans 8:13 that, by the Holy Spirit, I am to be putting to death the sinful deeds of my body. According to that passage, that IS following God's leading! So anything He has defined as sin, what must I do with it? Tolerate it in my life? Don't worry about it? Deny it? Say that that's just the way I am? No. I must choose to put it off (Ephesians 4:17-24), be renewed in the spirit of my mind, and put on the new man, created according to God in true righteousness and holiness. I have a long way to go to be like Jesus, but thanks to Him, I’m on the upward trail.

Hey, thanks for reading, flippy…great discussion! But I think, if we want to continue it, we ought to take it to the general discussion forum, since we're getting away from Steelers football.

Romans 1:26–27
26 For this reason wGod gave them up to xdishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, ymen committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

New Testament.

I always thought that was referring to the idiots in the Raiders end zone stands, or maybe the ones in the Cleveland Dog Pound. In the latter case the penalty for their error would be to have a son that turned out to grow up into that guy D*ck Head from that photo that shows up here now and then (it's a few years old now, the guy actually grew up to become mayor of Cleveland).

Ruthless started it all when he did his own Glee rendition of the Gambler mashed up with his own little diddy.

Diddy's gonna lay down his own remix of Lady with Big Kenny Roasters. Glee style mashup. Keeping in form with the thread, we gonna mix All About the Benjamins (Wally remix) with Kenny's Lady (as a shout of to you cross dressing homos)