Tim Thomasen wrote:If there so tiresome to watch, why do you even watch them then? Even know I was disappointed with the game and some of there play this year, they have never gotten to the point where I just want to stop watching them.

I miss the cycling, offensive puck possession, and the grit and semi dirty/intimidating play of old Cooke, Roberts, Ruutu.

Tim Thomasen wrote:If there so tiresome to watch, why do you even watch them then? Even know I was disappointed with the game and some of there play this year, they have never gotten to the point where I just want to stop watching them.

I miss the cycling, offensive puck possession, and the grit and semi dirty/intimidating play of old Cooke, Roberts, Ruutu.

Therrien is right for a certain kind of team. He outlived his usefulness here. Bylsma is too. He was the right guy at the right time for the Cup run. He completely earned his Jack Adams coaching a talent-strapped team. He's not the right guy for the team now. They need someone who can reign in a team with star talents.

Tim Thomasen wrote:If there so tiresome to watch, why do you even watch them then? Even know I was disappointed with the game and some of there play this year, they have never gotten to the point where I just want to stop watching them.

I miss the cycling, offensive puck possession, and the grit and semi dirty/intimidating play of old Cooke, Roberts, Ruutu.

on occasion I miss jarkko

Man he was great while he was here. Played with grit and determination on the ice and was very good on the shootout.

Cool story. I broke up with a girl about 7 or 8 years ago because I was fairly certain she screwed around on me with Pat's brother Tim. Coincidentally it was a girl I met because Biz Nasty took it upon himself to walk up to her at a bar and wingman-it for me lol.

Henry Hank wrote:Therrien is right for a certain kind of team. He outlived his usefulness here. Bylsma is too. He was the right guy at the right time for the Cup run. He completely earned his Jack Adams coaching a talent-strapped team. He's not the right guy for the team now. They need someone who can reign in a team with star talents.

pulp22 wrote:I'm super frustrated by this team and I think things need to change, but to all of a sudden pine for therrien again is a bit over the top. People lambasted him his last season here.

I didn't want him to be fired, because I believed in him as a coach. I was exceedingly wrong about the outcome, if course. I still think its the easy way out to blame DB....and don't see a miracle coming around bend by blaming him and expecting another coach to fix their problems, which - unlike 2009 - are mostly due to the roster.

Henry Hank wrote:Therrien is right for a certain kind of team. He outlived his usefulness here. Bylsma is too. He was the right guy at the right time for the Cup run. He completely earned his Jack Adams coaching a talent-strapped team. He's not the right guy for the team now. They need someone who can reign in a team with star talents.

And who do you think that is?

Lindy Ruff. I'm not saying we should fire Bylsma now but he should be fired unless we make it to at least the Eastern Finals. Lindy Ruff would be a great fit.

Henry Hank wrote:Therrien is right for a certain kind of team. He outlived his usefulness here. Bylsma is too. He was the right guy at the right time for the Cup run. He completely earned his Jack Adams coaching a talent-strapped team. He's not the right guy for the team now. They need someone who can reign in a team with star talents.

Henry Hank wrote:Therrien is right for a certain kind of team. He outlived his usefulness here. Bylsma is too. He was the right guy at the right time for the Cup run. He completely earned his Jack Adams coaching a talent-strapped team. He's not the right guy for the team now. They need someone who can reign in a team with star talents.

Henry Hank wrote:Therrien is right for a certain kind of team. He outlived his usefulness here. Bylsma is too. He was the right guy at the right time for the Cup run. He completely earned his Jack Adams coaching a talent-strapped team. He's not the right guy for the team now. They need someone who can reign in a team with star talents.

And who do you think that is?

Lindy Ruff. I'm not saying we should fire Bylsma now but he should be fired unless we make it to at least the Eastern Finals. Lindy Ruff would be a great fit.

I wouldn't have a problem with that. I thought he did a pretty good job in Buffalo just his time was at a end there.

Pens were actually somewhat ok offensively (except of course, on the pp) - we hit 3 posts and let's just give credit to Ward, he was outstanding.

The defensive coverage though was a joke at times - looked like mite hockey with their coverage of players without the puck. Nisky was horrible early, Martin horrible throughout.

Still, I say it's a great time to be a pens fan, I believe the Pens have the players, GM and coaches to win another championship within the next few years. As for this year, lets see what Shero does by the trade deadline, there's no way we go into the playoffs with this roster, especially on the blueline.

Henry Hank wrote:Therrien is right for a certain kind of team. He outlived his usefulness here. Bylsma is too. He was the right guy at the right time for the Cup run. He completely earned his Jack Adams coaching a talent-strapped team. He's not the right guy for the team now. They need someone who can reign in a team with star talents.

And who do you think that is?

Beats me. Shero needs to find him.

Great answer.

So because no one ever heard of bylsma, none of us were allowed to want mt fired in 09 then

Henry Hank wrote:Therrien is right for a certain kind of team. He outlived his usefulness here. Bylsma is too. He was the right guy at the right time for the Cup run. He completely earned his Jack Adams coaching a talent-strapped team. He's not the right guy for the team now. They need someone who can reign in a team with star talents.

And who do you think that is?

Beats me. Shero needs to find him.

Great answer.

So because no one ever heard of bylsma, none of us were allowed to want mt fired in 09 then

DB's "schtick" certainly worked better in 2009Then again, that was most certainly a better hockey team.

Martin injury aside, the bottom 3 on D spotty at best.The 3rd line is hardly what it was. Though I don't blame Sutter, as no one could replace Staal in that role.Geno's seeming requirement of Kunitz AND Neal is borderline distressing.

You can blame DB all you want, but that would be overlooking the makeup of the roster.

pulp22 wrote:I'm super frustrated by this team and I think things need to change, but to all of a sudden pine for therrien again is a bit over the top. People lambasted him his last season here.

I didn't want him to be fired, because I believed in him as a coach. I was exceedingly wrong about the outcome, if course. I still think its the easy way out to blame DB....and don't see a miracle coming around bend by blaming him and expecting another coach to fix their problems, which - unlike 2009 - are mostly due to the roster.

This is a good point. I'm not sure how good or bad HCDB is but I do know we have a ton of holes on a roster masked by high end talent. I think that's why you see so many silly arguments on here. On one hand people don't want to believe and constantly site stats or blame things like a fluky series or a bad matchup. On the other hand some of us our overly critical but I think it's based on the recent past and actually realizing a series is different than game by game.

Btw - I didn't see the game tonight. Read thought this thread. Didn't see Neal mentioned once, did he play? His ES play has been suspect this year.

For whatever reason, it's really getting tiresome following this team.

I think it's karma for ripping on the Caps so much. Little did I know the Pens were on their way to becoming that team. Just sucks, man.

As of tonight:

#1 in our division. #2 in the conference. #2 in GF (to TB, who has won 9 games...). #3 in diff. Oh, and our captain is the NHL's leading scorer.... well, tied. Still

I don't think its as bad as all that.

I'm a big fan of Crosby and will be happy for him if he can finally win another scoring title. But that kind of stuff doesn't really do much for me if the team isn't successful. Malkin taking home all those trophies last year took exactly none of the sting away from how the season ended.

Again, not much separates them from being #7 instead of #2. A couple weeks from now they could easily be out of the playoff picture. Where they are in the standings isn't anything special. I mean, sure, if they were in Chicago's position and had a bad game or two you can fall back on being way above anyone else still.

They're also 16th in GAA, with few current playoff teams worse. 19th in PK. They haven't exactly made much progress in those areas. That's more important to me than what their record is.

I agree with Columbia and Burghers with their comments. DB is a problem and if postseason results don't change he needs to go. But yes there is a team problem as well. Our defense is suspect at times with poor play in their zone and turnovers and the team for years has never tried and simplfy their game. But one big problem for me is their toughness, it's just not there. Night after night i've seen this team get pushed around and there never returning the favor. When we won the cup, we had Cooke before he was nutured, we had a physical defenseman in Hal Gill to name a few.

This team may have skill but they lack the grit and sandpaper that's also needed to get far in the playoffs and win the title. We just don't have that anymore and that's disturbing.

I'd say part of the problem is that, while we do need to do something about the personnel as it currently stands (as mentioned above), there's not much out there that fits what we need and is a reasonable price.

You have to weigh the costs and benefits. Even if a guy costs a second rounder and a roster player (which I believe is what Hal Gill cost last year, just for argument's sake), are we in a position organizational-wise to give up a roster player to fill a need? Sure, if it'll cost a guy we're currently scratching (this is not counting Despres, who is a case by himself), go for it. But if it's one of the players who either is or will be a contributor in some way come playoff time, would you do it?

The problem is the coaching and it is getting old fast. Bylsma plays his favorites not matter what . Letang does absolutely nothing on the PP except hand the puck over to the opposition , yet we see him night after night on the PP for the full two minutes. Last year when Crosby was recovering , he said that Lovejoy was the hardest hitting player in practice . Lovejoy makes one mistake in the playoffs and hardly ever gets to see the ice. Lovejoy gets traded and we get Bortuzzo . The coach has Bortuzzo out against Eric Staal's line and he gets smoked badly on three different occasions . Why is Bortuzzo paired with Martin against their best line ? That is a coaching decision with no attempt to even change during the game . This team with this coaching will get dumped again in the first playoff round . It is tough to watch when they have two of the best players .

MRandall25 wrote:I'd say part of the problem is that, while we do need to do something about the personnel as it currently stands (as mentioned above), there's not much out there that fits what we need and is a reasonable price.

You have to weigh the costs and benefits. Even if a guy costs a second rounder and a roster player (which I believe is what Hal Gill cost last year, just for argument's sake), are we in a position organizational-wise to give up a roster player to fill a need? Sure, if it'll cost a guy we're currently scratching (this is not counting Despres, who is a case by himself), go for it. But if it's one of the players who either is or will be a contributor in some way come playoff time, would you do it?

It depends on the deal. Alot of people here would because they believe that since the team is in a win now mode that we need to think about whats good for us now instead of a few years down the road.