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(snip)
I guess I'll end with a question for markie: you've been a fan for over a decade, and know very well what Mills papers, books, etc say. You also know, or could easily confirm, the capabilities and competence of the of the coauthors etc. And you know that not one of them has independently confirmed the existence of hydrinos (etc). Not to mention doing things that will bring them great fame and fortune. Does this concern you at all? Are you puzzled by it?

Of course others have independently confirmed the excess energy of hydrino formation, the spectroscopic evidence of hydrino formation, and the signatures of hydrino or dihydrino or hydrino hydride. You seem to believe that every positive scientific paper / experiment about hydrino has Mills as an author. Such is not the case.

Good article. At least we can agree on something.
But your glaring error is assuming Mills is wrong.
How about you complain about the *billions* of *taxpayer* dollars that truly have been squandered on this or that.

There is no "glaring error is assuming Mills is wrong". The simple fact of the matter is that Mills has failed to provide evidence hydrinos exist. Further he has failed to show his BLP units produce energy in some novel way.

I could go on and on. There are multiple 10 years case studies of working examples in the field from several continents, multiple published independent studies, Literally millions of farmers in the field using one of the many methods I mentioned, setting world records even.......

And yet the evidence for what I proposed is considered slim at best, and needing much more confirmation, mostly anecdotal. I took all kinds of flack in this very forum for suggesting it was all but proven beyond a doubt. A lesson I won't soon forget. Which is why when I wrote that I remembered to say in big bolded letters, It’s still unrecognised by the accepted mainstream, but with recent advancements in biological sciences and agricultural methods, it can no longer be called impossible.

That's the best I can claim. It isn't impossible. Still a long long way before I can claim the consensus is it actually will work.

Compare that with Mills' scam............. and you want to accuse me of assuming? Really?

PS As far as squandered "*billions* of *taxpayer* dollars", Not one thin dime of anyone's money have I seen, period, not angel investors, not government grants, not charity funding, nada zip zero. Kinda insulted by your implication any of that research by me or anyone else I cited would be squandered.

__________________Scott
"Permaculture is a philosophy of working﻿ with, rather than against nature; of protracted & thoughtful observation rather than protracted & thoughtless labour; & of looking at plants & animals in all their functions, rather than treating any area as a single-product system." Bill MollisonBiome Carbon Cycle Management

No, I'm calling him mistaken in predicting that the externally validated energy cells could be tweaked and improved sufficiently to make them into a commercial viable product.

The solution seems blatant in that he can demonstrate to the world the possibilities of commercial viability, right now. Today. Or even ten years ago. Or fifteen years ago. Or twenty years ago.

All he has to do is reveal the machine, warts and all, and all the fame and glory will still belong to Mills but then thousands of other minds can put their efforts into making it into a commercial viability.

The reason he doesn't, of course, is that he's greedy. Pure selfishness, nothing more.

And this even grants him the kind of training and background which he does not have; this is no longer a world of shade-tree inventors, which Mills clearly is. Formal training for medicine translates poorly into the world of physics and quantum mechanics.

Originally Posted by markie

Good article. At least we can agree on something.
But your glaring error is assuming Mills is wrong.

It isn't an assumption; it's a conclusion based on decades of failure and secrecy.

Quote:

How about you complain about the *billions* of *taxpayer* dollars that truly have been squandered on this or that.

Oh, I do. And I bet good money that others in this thread do too. And? Is this a dodge or a lame attempt to divert attention from a particular scammer?

Originally Posted by markie

There is a indeed a chance that Mills is not foreseeing a major obstacle with the SunCell closed, working continuously at high power. We shall see.

A chance Mills is not foreseeing a major obstacle? LOL

Apparently people in this thread have pointed out this major obstacle and they're not the inventors. How could the inventor himself miss such a major obstacle? I thought he had scientists on staff who could have pointed all this out, as well. What happened to them?

You strangely assume the four validation reports are all there is to it. That's only the tip of the iceberg.

For instance google one of the validators - Dr. Ramanujachary of Rowan university, with hydrino and NMR and you will see that he and Dr. Janssen have detected NMR upshifts, indicating hydrino.

Calorimetry is easy with the large excess energy amounts from hydrino formation. Add to this the various types of calorimetry that have been used, and add to this the power spectroscopy results, and add to this that hydrino itself is detected by various techniques, and the case for hydrino is firmly established from multiple angles of investigation.

And add this to the claims made by Mills to provide samples of hydrinos yet he never has done so.

If there had been real validation it would have been many times repeated and through various methods. The scientific world would be abuzz with new research, hydrinos would be a hot keyword accross journals and mainstream media, and people would be getting Nobels. Bullcrap.

Are you underestimating the impact of such a discovery?

__________________'The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool.' - Richard Feynman

There is a indeed a chance that Mills is not foreseeing a major obstacle with the SunCell closed, working continuously at high power. We shall see.

You see, this is the absolute deal killer for investors. Even if Mills's scientifically impossible theories are correct, he's got a solid track record of failure, and thirty years of excuses. And even you, his most strident cheerleader, can't find anything more positive to say than that you think it'll all be different this time. Nobody in their right mind, knowing Mills's record, would invest a penny in his latest pipedream even if there were solid science behind it.

Dave

__________________Me: So what you're saying is that, if the load carrying ability of the lower structure is reduced to the point where it can no longer support the load above it, it will collapse without a jolt, right?

You see, this is the absolute deal killer for investors. Even if Mills's scientifically impossible theories are correct, he's got a solid track record of failure, and thirty years of excuses. And even you, his most strident cheerleader, can't find anything more positive to say than that you think it'll all be different this time. Nobody in their right mind, knowing Mills's record, would invest a penny in his latest pipedream even if there were solid science behind it.

Dave

Hard to do that when he removes so much previously published material and hides his entire site from search engines....

Mills was pushing a laser system for Blu-Ray players in 2003, and claimed he would have a prototype in 2003. I know he has some sort of vague laser patent, but it does not seem suitable for blu-ray type applications.

When the kinks are worked out, blue lasers will likely be the heart of next-generation DVDs, CDs, printers and scanners. Having shorter wavelengths than their red brethren, they can etch more data on a disc. It's the optical equivalent of taking a sharper pencil to paper.

But manufacturing flaws have plagued the emerging technology. The standard way to generate blue laser light is to run an electric current through a crystal or chemical. Excited electrons in the substrates then emit blue light rays. Trouble is, the substrates tend to crack under extreme heat, a glitch that ruins up to a third of all batches. And the solutions are pricey.

Liquids, however, don't crack. Enter the world's first water-based blue laser. Researchers at BlackLight Power heated water vapor with microwaves to generate
energized hydrogen atoms which
emit multispectrum light rays, including infrared, blue and violet. A prototype blue laser device is expected by the end of the year.

The team says such a multispectrum laser light could be miniaturized to micron dimensions for many microelectronic applications. "A hydrogen laser may prove to be the most useful of all," says Randell Mills, BlackLight Power's CEO.

__________________What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing.

Mills was pushing a laser system for Blu-Ray players in 2003, and claimed he would have a prototype in 2003. I know he has some sort of vague laser patent, but it does not seem suitable for blu-ray type applications.

Funny how Mills's commercial applications are always a few months away, isn't it? Of course his cheerleaders can say that blue semiconductor lasers took up the market niche so comprehensively that his water laser could never break into the market, but for a disruptive technology that's supposed to be cheaper and more reliable than the technological alternatives that's still a total and utter failure.

Dave

__________________Me: So what you're saying is that, if the load carrying ability of the lower structure is reduced to the point where it can no longer support the load above it, it will collapse without a jolt, right?

Brilliant Light has solved the theory, confirmed Hydrino reaction products by many analytical techniques, and identified Hydrino as the pervasive dark matter of the universe. The SunCell® was invented and engineered to harness this clean energy source of optical power of thousands of Sun equivalents that can be directly converted to electrical output using commercial photovoltaic cells. SunCell® technology is under rapid development for commercialization. Prototypes are already continuously producing hundreds of thousands of watts of light that is ideal for concentrator photovoltaic conversion being engineered and fabricated at leading photovoltaic (PV) companies. The performance to date indicates that the SunCell® is capable of rapid displacement of fuels, power sources, and infrastructure due to its superior performance, lower cost, lack of pollutant by-products, and use of existing mass-produced components.

I'm sure this has come up before.

From the November 2016 business summary. Already continuously working in the 100's of KW range. Can use commercial PV cells. Leading PV companies are making PV cells for the Sun Cell. Uses existing mass-produced components.

It describes experiments carried out by BLP using BLP equipment that he witnessed. It is even unclear whether he wrote the report or just signed off on it. Whoever wrote it seems to be a "true believer". That is about as far from independent validation as you can get.

I found page 7 to be particularly funny. It is a series of photos of broken equipment with the caption:

Quote:

Figure 4A-C. Images of SunCells® that underwent meltdown in about 10 s due to the extraordinary power generated in the reactor.

I would have instead titled it "devices that quickly self-destructed due to incompetent engineering."

Right, I'm no laser expert (although I do happen to know one who I'll ask about this, although maybe not for a week or two), but if the light being emitted as of a broad spectrum from infrared to ultraviolet, then that's not a blue laser, is it? "Blue" is only some of those frequencies.

Secondly, what on Earth do they mean by "miniaturising" the multispectrum light into microns? What exactly are they talking about there?

Finally, if you look at that diagram, it appears that Mills thinks that such a laser would require a constant supply of water in order to keep functioning. But there's no reason, if the laser actually used water vapour instead of a crystal, for that vapour to need replacing. The diagram makes it appear as if Mills thinks that the laser beam itself is made up of water vapour.

Basically, that illustration makes it look like Mills doesn't really know what a laser is or how it works.

With increasing temperature the power spectrum curve shifts to the left, such that photons in the visible range predominate when the temperature is around say 5000K.

At#3216 I asked you this: "[46% efficiecy of concentrator PC cells is possible] Under standard conditions with 5 junction cells - with an incident colour temperature of ~5800K, an incident power density of 1000W/m2 and a temperature of 25 degrees C.

So Markie, what temperature will the graphite dome run at, what is the incident power density predicted to be, and what temperature will the PV cells be operating at?

Of course others have independently confirmed the excess energy of hydrino formation, the spectroscopic evidence of hydrino formation, and the signatures of hydrino or dihydrino or hydrino hydride. You seem to believe that every positive scientific paper / experiment about hydrino has Mills as an author. Such is not the case.

You realize that repeating something ad nauseam does not make it true, right ?

It describes experiments carried out by BLP using BLP equipment that he witnessed. It is even unclear whether he wrote the report or just signed off on it. Whoever wrote it seems to be a "true believer". That is about as far from independent validation as you can get.

I found page 7 to be particularly funny. It is a series of photos of broken equipment with the caption:

I would have instead titled it "devices that quickly self-destructed due to incompetent engineering."

Markie refuse adamantly to admit what independent means. In a way the conversation remind me of the jabba thread of immortality : once all objection have been given, they are waived with a simple gesture of hand, and the same argument "validation" repeatedly given , in spite of having shown to be improper.

By this point we are not arguing with Jabba/markie anymore, we are showing the info for lurker and google.

Brilliant Light has solved the theory, confirmed Hydrino reaction products by many analytical techniques, and identified Hydrino as the pervasive dark matter of the universe. The SunCell® was invented and engineered to harness this clean energy source of optical power of thousands of Sun equivalents that can be directly converted to electrical output using commercial photovoltaic cells. SunCell® technology is under rapid development for commercialization. Prototypes are already continuously producing hundreds of thousands of watts of light that is ideal for concentrator photovoltaic conversion being engineered and fabricated at leading photovoltaic (PV) companies. The performance to date indicates that the SunCell® is capable of rapid displacement of fuels, power sources, and infrastructure due to its superior performance, lower cost, lack of pollutant by-products, and use of existing mass-produced components.

From the November 2016 business summary.

Interesting, given that markie recently said:

Originally Posted by markie

I should qualify. The short burst reaction in the SunCell is already provably power dense. Long term reactions (of hours) in the SunCell have already been performed, but at necessarily low power. When the dome is closed both the power density and the sustained reaction will - presumably - be attained. That will be the moment of truth. If that fails (without reasonable excuse), I will probably be disappointed enough to reassess my belief.

A question, markie. Which of the following statements is true, given that at least and at most one must be true?

(1) The SunCell is already producing hundreds of kilowatts of energy continuously at suitable wavelengths for PV cells, in which case your statement is untrue in its implication that the power density and the sustained reaction have not simultaneously been achieved?
(2) The SunCell is not yet producing hundreds of kilowatts of energy continuously at suitable wavelengths for PV cells, and BLP has knowingly released a false statement?
(3) The SunCell is not yet producing hundreds of kilowatts of energy continuously at suitable wavelengths for PV cells, but BLP does not have the engineering competence to understand that this is the case?

If (1), then clearly your statements on BLP are not credible. One might ask why BLP has not simply demonstrated this extraordinary radiant source publically, which would silence its critics instantly.
If (2), then BLP is defrauding its investors.
If (3), then BLP is incompetent to a staggering degree.

So which is it - you don't know what's going on at BLP, BLP doesn't know what's going on at BLP, or the whole thing's a fraud?

Dave

__________________Me: So what you're saying is that, if the load carrying ability of the lower structure is reduced to the point where it can no longer support the load above it, it will collapse without a jolt, right?

Right, I'm no laser expert (although I do happen to know one who I'll ask about this, although maybe not for a week or two), but if the light being emitted as of a broad spectrum from infrared to ultraviolet, then that's not a blue laser, is it? "Blue" is only some of those frequencies.

I was working with gas and dye lasers in the 1970s, and excimer lasers in the 80s. For a continuous working laser to work it needs a medium that has a quasi-stable excited state into which the pump energy pumps the molecules or atoms, so you end up with an inverted energy state, and an optical cavity tuned to the energy between the quasi-stable state and some lower stable state. The up transition is pumped and the down transition is stimulated by radiation in the cavity at the wavelength. Hence Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation. Some types of CW laser operate at a few well defined wavelengths given by the transition energy or energies. This include most sorts of gas laser (helium neon, helium cadmium, argon, krypton etc). Dye lasers can generally lase at a wider range of wavelengths and can be tuned by adjusting the cavity.

Quote:

Secondly, what on Earth do they mean by "miniaturising" the multispectrum light into microns? What exactly are they talking about there?

Could be that that's the journalist misinterpreting what was said to him? Maybe he was claiming that the device itself could be made into microns? Which is also quite silly.

Quote:

Finally, if you look at that diagram, it appears that Mills thinks that such a laser would require a constant supply of water in order to keep functioning. But there's no reason, if the laser actually used water vapour instead of a crystal, for that vapour to need replacing. The diagram makes it appear as if Mills thinks that the laser beam itself is made up of water vapour.

He doesn't talk about water vapour - he talks about hydrogen. The Balmer series is in the visible but hydrogen doesn't have the energy inversion to a quasi-stable state that is required for a laser. So I don't think it would work.

Quote:

Basically, that illustration makes it look like Mills doesn't really know what a laser is or how it works.

He doesn't talk about water vapour - he talks about hydrogen. The Balmer series is in the visible but hydrogen doesn't have the energy inversion to a quasi-stable state that is required for a laser. So I don't think it would work.

The illustration is awful.

Serious question - would the hypothetical hydrino gas have such a property?

Serious question - would the hypothetical hydrino gas have such a property?

If you viewed the ground state of hydrogen as a long-lived metastable state, then yes it might. The problem there is that, if that were true, and stimulated emission from the ground state had a reasonable cross-section, it would be possible to force a hydrogen atom into a lower state by hitting it with a photon in the blue part of the spectrum, which would mean that relaxation below the ground state of hydrogen would have to be a very common phenomenon. The claim as I understand it is that hydrogen can't relax below the ground state without a resonant interaction with another atom that has the required energy difference, which would imply that a hydrino laser is impossible because the transition can't be initiated by a photon. As usual, though, the whole theory is so poorly stated and internally inconsistent that it's almost impossible to find anything solid enough to critique.

Dave

__________________Me: So what you're saying is that, if the load carrying ability of the lower structure is reduced to the point where it can no longer support the load above it, it will collapse without a jolt, right?

Of course the real discovery that Mills is trying desperately to keep quiet is the discovery of dark energy.

How else can you explain devices that produce 100KW of power continuously and at the same time generate only "low grade" heat? These devices aren't exploding from the enormous heat. They are shattering from the sudden extreme temperature drop caused by the enormous cold!

I was working with gas and dye lasers in the 1970s, and excimer lasers in the 80s. For a continuous working laser to work it needs a medium that has a quasi-stable excited state into which the pump energy pumps the molecules or atoms, so you end up with an inverted energy state, and an optical cavity tuned to the energy between the quasi-stable state and some lower stable state. The up transition is pumped and the down transition is stimulated by radiation in the cavity at the wavelength. Hence Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation. Some types of CW laser operate at a few well defined wavelengths given by the transition energy or energies. This include most sorts of gas laser (helium neon, helium cadmium, argon, krypton etc). Dye lasers can generally lase at a wider range of wavelengths and can be tuned by adjusting the cavity.

The article refers to the output as "multispectrum laser light", yet the entire point of the laser is that it's blue. The laser light emitted cannot be both blue and spanning from infrared to violet.

Quote:

Could be that that's the journalist misinterpreting what was said to him?

I'm not about to make the claim that science journalism is accurate and doesn't say silly things. But, then, I'm not about to make the claim that Mills' claims are accurate and that he doesn't say silly things, either.

Quote:

He doesn't talk about water vapour - he talks about hydrogen.

He talks about "heat[ing] water vapor with microwaves to generate
energized hydrogen atoms", and if you look at the illustration it literally has water being heated and the vapour being directed into the microwave cavity as a lasing medium. Both the text and the illustration concur on that being what's supposedly happening.

I can't find more than the abstract, but here is the paper in which Mills first proposes a hydrino laser. It seems that the person writing the article just copied directly from that:

Quote:

High-power hydrogen gas lasers are anticipated at wavelengths over a broad spectral range from far infrared to violet which may be miniaturized to micron dimensions. Such a hydrogen laser may prove to be the most versatile and useful of all.

__________________I suspect you are a sandwich, metaphorically speaking. -Donn
And a shot rang out. Now Space is doing time... -Ben Burch
You built the toilet - don't complain when people crap in it. _Kid Eager
Never underestimate the power of the Random Number God. More of evolutionary history is His doing than people think. - Dinwar

Of course others have independently confirmed the excess energy of hydrino formation, the spectroscopic evidence of hydrino formation, and the signatures of hydrino or dihydrino or hydrino hydride. You seem to believe that every positive scientific paper / experiment about hydrino has Mills as an author. Such is not the case.

And those published articles are?

__________________I suspect you are a sandwich, metaphorically speaking. -Donn
And a shot rang out. Now Space is doing time... -Ben Burch
You built the toilet - don't complain when people crap in it. _Kid Eager
Never underestimate the power of the Random Number God. More of evolutionary history is His doing than people think. - Dinwar

Here is a patent application for the hydrino laser, from 7 years after that article was published. It doesn't seem to think that water vapour is a suitable lasing medium any more.

There's some maths in there which is beyond me, if anybody with the requisite background knowledge wants to have a go. Again, I'll probably sic my expert on it in the next couple of weeks.

Forget all the guff in the disclosure. It's just stuff copied from Mills's book and it doesn't render properly in any of my browsers anyway. Just go to the claims at the very end. He is claiming any laser which works on transitions between fractional states of molecular hydrogen. If it's that easy to get a population inversion and stimulate emission, then that's completely inconsistent with his claim that you can't detect hydrinos and that they are dark matter. It's a mess.