At this point of the season in which teams are who they are going to be most likely come bowl time, where do you rank our Buckeyes? I'm not talking about a "ranking" like the weekly ones we see in which you consider others records, schedules etc, I am talking in terms of how many teams do you feel the Buckeyes would lose to come the bowl season.

IMO there are only two for sure obvious choices, for me that is Florida and Bama. I know some might want to give some heat for not saying Texas but I personally don't think Texas would beat us, they have a very similar team from last season (but without some of the D prowess?) and we had them beat and our D is light years improved compared to last season.

After the top two I think there are lots of very beatable teams for us. I'm torn on LSU, I think their D is good enough to make it difficult on our offense but our D would return the favor at this point IMO.

Cincy, seriously, pfft, I don't buy it. TCU, have not seen enough of them to make an honest objective comment.

Who am I missing?

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FUDU wrote:At this point of the season in which teams are who they are going to be most likely come bowl time, where do you rank our Buckeyes? I'm not talking about a "ranking" like the weekly ones we see in which you consider others records, schedules etc, I am talking in terms of how many teams do you feel the Buckeyes would lose to come the bowl season.

IMO there are only two for sure obvious choices, for me that is Florida and Bama. I know some might want to give some heat for not saying Texas but I personally don't think Texas would beat us, they have a very similar team from last season (but without some of the D prowess?) and we had them beat and our D is light years improved compared to last season.

After the top two I think there are lots of very beatable teams for us. I'm torn on LSU, I think their D is good enough to make it difficult on our offense but our D would return the favor at this point IMO.

Cincy, seriously, pfft, I don't buy it. TCU, have not seen enough of them to make an honest objective comment.

Who am I missing?

I can't buy much of this until I'm convinced the Buckeyes can move the ball. TheBuckeyes can D-up, but there are SEVERAL teams that the buckeyes aren't going to put much of a number up ILO.

And Texas still has the same HUGE advantage they had last year, that is, if they are down in the fourth and get the ball last, they have a good chance to win. The Buckeyes are at best, a team that runs the wildcat exclusively, in other words, if they are down in the fourth, they've got some problems.

FWIW, I like TCU much better than Cincy, because they are a complete team.

FUDU wrote:At this point of the season in which teams are who they are going to be most likely come bowl time, where do you rank our Buckeyes? I'm not talking about a "ranking" like the weekly ones we see in which you consider others records, schedules etc, I am talking in terms of how many teams do you feel the Buckeyes would lose to come the bowl season.

IMO there are only two for sure obvious choices, for me that is Florida and Bama. I know some might want to give some heat for not saying Texas but I personally don't think Texas would beat us, they have a very similar team from last season (but without some of the D prowess?) and we had them beat and our D is light years improved compared to last season.

After the top two I think there are lots of very beatable teams for us. I'm torn on LSU, I think their D is good enough to make it difficult on our offense but our D would return the favor at this point IMO.

Cincy, seriously, pfft, I don't buy it. TCU, have not seen enough of them to make an honest objective comment.

Who am I missing?

I can't buy much of this until I'm convinced the Buckeyes can move the ball. TheBuckeyes can D-up, but there are SEVERAL teams that the buckeyes aren't going to put much of a number up ILO.

And Texas still has the same HUGE advantage they had last year, that is, if they are down in the fourth and get the ball last, they have a good chance to win. The Buckeyes are at best, a team that runs the wildcat exclusively, in other words, if they are down in the fourth, they've got some problems.

FWIW, I like TCU much better than Cincy, because they are a complete team.

I agree with the part about there being several teams we can't put up a good offensive night on, but I disagree with your thoughts on Texas entirely...

I have to approach that comparison is the exact same way I looked at Penn State...

Texas is not better on offense, Neither are we.

Texas is has gotten worse on defense, we have gotten much better on defense.

In fact to go deeper, we are quite a bit better on defense, particularly for this game comparison, because in playing Texas last season, to disrupt McCoy we had to blitz our faces off all night, which eventually was our undoing. Essentially if we played them again this season, we would get to play them with as much pressure but with an extra DB, which is HUGE, particularly because the Texas wideouts as a group are not as strong compared to last season.

I don't think its fair to judge the OSU defense with the USC and Navy game in mind. This is CFB, and defenses and teams mature throughout the year. I think we beat Texas, and I think we hold McCoy to a performance closer to his first time seeing us than his last.

NM, we won't see them, but I think looking at this it is easy to see why the buckeyes might fare much better this season against the Texas offense in particular.

FUDU wrote:how many teams do you feel the Buckeyes would lose to come the bowl season.

Fla, TX, Bama, and USC for sure.

LSU would be interesting as their defense could wreak some havoc. I say we lose to them too just because we dont match up well vs the SEC and the style played there.

Boise State would be an interesting match up. I think we win but it would be scary for a bit..

We would crush Cincinnati and TCU. Cin gave up 44 pts at home vs a bigger UConn team. Please, dont tell me they would roll up on a bigger, faster OSU team and beat them.

I absolutely cannot understand why someone would say the bucks would lose to USC and Texas "for sure"...

Its simple and consists of two words: Terrell Pryor.

I have no faith in the kid to win a game of that magnatude right now. Perhaps after the Penn State game he turns the corner as Swerb pointed out and the remaining 2 regular season games are different. However, until he shows me otherwise, I dont think we beat both of those teams.

Look, I would love to be wrong and would gladly eat crow if they did. The talent level isnt the issue, the coaching isnt the issue, he is the reason why I think this way. Kid scares the hell outta me everytime he drops back to pass.

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They are 0-10 against the SEC in bowl games for a reason. Having a big ten championship game might go a long way in fixing this disparity. First, with a win it would prove they are the best team in the big ten (which is debatable some years) and second it would keep the rust off from the six week layoff leading into a bowl game in January.

In all seriousness, the "long layoff" thing is a red herring IMO. Of Ohio State's nine bowl losses to SEC teams, only three have come against teams that played in the SEC title game. Miami's layoff going into the 2003 Fiesta Bowl was two weeks shorter than Ohio State's- the Canes played their last game of the regular season in the first week of December, as opposed to the third week of November when Ohio State beat Michigan.

municipalmutt wrote: First, with a win it would prove they are the best team in the big ten (which is debatable some years) and second it would keep the rust off from the six week layoff leading into a bowl game in January.

I don't see how that is debatable. OSU has been the class of the Big Ten nearly this entire decade. Especially recently.

Even the two times they lost to PSU and shared the title, the head to head games were close and it wasn't clear the Lions were better. The other years? Pretty much have stomped PSU along with the rest of the Big Ten. As much as I hate that, it's the truth.

Every year an argument can be made OSU is the best team in the Big Ten. The years they have won the title there is no argument to be made.

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There have been years when Wisconsin, Penn State, and Iowa have looked better but due to scheduling reasons they never played tOSU some of those years. If there was a championship game it would settle those questions. I'm just looking for answers of why the Buckeyes can't get to the next level. They have a better than average defense this year but it takes more than that to compete against teams above them in the rankings. So what's the answer? It it coaching, the schemes? recruiting?

I can't see them beating Texas, Florida, Alabama, LSU, maybe USC in a rematch.

municipalmutt wrote:They have a better than average defense this year but it takes more than that to compete against teams above them in the rankings. So what's the answer? It it coaching, the schemes? recruiting?

Better than average? That's selling them short from any view point.

But every year stands alone. Its not the "same" team year after year....

But IMO, I think a ton of it has been recruiting, which has been fixed and then some, as thier best classes since 2002 have yet to mature fully. Some is coaching, particularly at the offensive line position....

Comparatively, the recuiting has been matching the USC's, LSU's, and UF's only since 2008, but it seems fixed for the long haul as the buckeyes will at worst lock in another top 10 class and at best another top 3 class this season, and they have a monster head start to the 2011 class in one of the deepest Ohio Classes you will see.

The next 3-4 Years will be telling as far as just how good this coaching staff is, IMO. There is more talent up and down this roster than there has ever been under Tressel, but much of it is young still.

municipalmutt wrote:They have a better than average defense this year but it takes more than that to compete against teams above them in the rankings. So what's the answer? It it coaching, the schemes? recruiting?

Better than average? That's selling them short from any view point.

But every year stands alone. Its not the "same" team year after year....

But IMO, I think a ton of it has been recruiting, which has been fixed and then some, as thier best classes since 2002 have yet to mature fully. Some is coaching, particularly at the offensive line position....

Comparatively, the recuiting has been matching the USC's, LSU's, and UF's only since 2008, but it seems fixed for the long haul as the buckeyes will at worst lock in another top 10 class and at best another top 3 class this season, and they have a monster head start to the 2011 class in one of the deepest Ohio Classes you will see.

The next 3-4 Years will be telling as far as just how good this coaching staff is, IMO. There is more talent up and down this roster than there has ever been under Tressel, but much of it is young still.

Yeah better than average. Excellent D-line, journeymen LBs, and a questionable secondary. If lowly Michigan could expose them like they did in the first half, We should have concerns about facing Oregon in the Rose Bowl.

municipalmutt wrote:Yeah better than average. Excellent D-line, journeymen LBs, and a questionable secondary. If lowly Michigan could expose them like they did in the first half, We should have concerns about facing Oregon in the Rose Bowl.

Agreed. The defense is far from outstanding, as a weak Michigan team proved. "Above average" is surely true. "Good" might even be appropriate. If not for the terrible QB play (which may have been caused, in part, by OSU defense), OSU loses this game. This is, at most, a "good" team. I am not sure there are many "good" teams in CFB this year. It is not so much that the Big Ten is horrible this year. All of CFB appears to be a little down. In most years I would say, no way this is a top 10 team. This season, if they beat Pac 10 rep in Rose Bowl, I guess the Buckeyes are a top 10 team.

tOSU is a decent team. Beating a terrible Michigan team (Forcier was tOSU's best player)does nothing for me, barely beating an Iowa team at home who had its second-string QB in does nothing for me. I would argue their win over Penn State is the best of the season.

Had they not lost to an average USC team at home and an average Purdue team, we would get a chance to see what they could do against the "elite" in the country. Problem is, unless you are an SEC team, you lose once and it's difficult to get another chance to get into the BCS title talk. Just an uniformed two cents from me.

"It's all about winning for me, and I think the Cavs are committed to doing that," he said. "But at the same time I've given myself options to this point, and like I said before, me and my team, we have a game plan that we're going to execute, and we'll see what we get."

They play excellent team defense. Greater than the sum of its parts/talent. You can talk and rationalize all day about Forcier moving the ball between the 20's. Who cares? They couldn't run it and yltimately OSU took it away from him five times and gave up 10 points.

The Buckeyes are clearly the class of the Big10. Yes, that may be like coming in 2nd in the Miss Warsaw Contest, but not much you can do about that.

They're also clearly not in the class of Texas/Florida/Alabama. I don't know enough about TCU to make a call but I will say Boise State would not scare me. I think OSU and Oregon will be a good one if both teams play at a high level and avoid Purdue/Stanford type efforts.

I think the Buckeyes are pretty much ranked where they belong. 7-12 sounds about right to me.

They are a top ten team, no arguments here. Just irritating that they hiccuped twice against two inferior teams.

"It's all about winning for me, and I think the Cavs are committed to doing that," he said. "But at the same time I've given myself options to this point, and like I said before, me and my team, we have a game plan that we're going to execute, and we'll see what we get."

They way we're playing now, we'd be in it against anyone. To me, the difference would be location. Play Florida or Alabama in the Orange or Sugar Bowls? We lose. Same team at the Rose Bowl? We have a solid shot, and may win. Play in the shoe? I'd favor us. Our team has the talent, its just a little gunshy, and may be over that now given the last month.

The biggest problem we have is that any bowl game is a road game for us, and a home game (more or less) for many of our potential opponents. We lost to LSU at the Sugar Bowl for crying out loud. I just don't see why LSU gets that kind of favoritism. Same with last year with Texas in the Fiesta Bowl. Make those teams play in some stadium in the midwest, and lets see what happens.

Sorry for ranting, but the bowl system is designed for the Big10 to fail, and yet people give us no slack what-so-ever in the national media. drives me nuts.

Anyway, my point is that location matters in these match-ups, and in a neutral site, I really believe we can hang with any of the teams this year, and while we might not be favored in any game, a win against Florida or 'Bama wouldn't surprise me at all. With a neutral field, not this crap system we have now.

bac5665 wrote:They way we're playing now, we'd be in it against anyone. To me, the difference would be location. Play Florida or Alabama in the Orange or Sugar Bowls? We lose. Same team at the Rose Bowl? We have a solid shot, and may win. Play in the shoe? I'd favor us. Our team has the talent, its just a little gunshy, and may be over that now given the last month.

The biggest problem we have is that any bowl game is a road game for us, and a home game (more or less) for many of our potential opponents. We lost to LSU at the Sugar Bowl for crying out loud. I just don't see why LSU gets that kind of favoritism. Same with last year with Texas in the Fiesta Bowl. Make those teams play in some stadium in the midwest, and lets see what happens.

Sorry for ranting, but the bowl system is designed for the Big10 to fail, and yet people give us no slack what-so-ever in the national media. drives me nuts.

Anyway, my point is that location matters in these match-ups, and in a neutral site, I really believe we can hang with any of the teams this year, and while we might not be favored in any game, a win against Florida or 'Bama wouldn't surprise me at all. With a neutral field, not this crap system we have now.

So where in the midwest would you propose they play some of these bowl games? Where in the Midwest would it be attractive enough for sponsers and a fan base to travel to and hang out for 3 days-a week before the game in late Dec/early Jan? In the end it's all about $$$. Don't think the bowls would make as much coin in Detroit/Indianapolis/Minneapolis as they would in NOLA/Miami/Tempe/Pasadena. IMO

I thought based on recent history that tOSU travels and plays well in Az. How would that give Texas an unfair advantage?

The '07 NCG vs Florida was played in Glendale Az.(Neutral site) Who had the advantage? Florida because they play in warm weather and tOSU plays in colder temperatures? Didn't play to Miami's advantage in Jan of '03.

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bac5665 wrote:They way we're playing now, we'd be in it against anyone. To me, the difference would be location. Play Florida or Alabama in the Orange or Sugar Bowls? We lose. Same team at the Rose Bowl? We have a solid shot, and may win. Play in the shoe? I'd favor us. Our team has the talent, its just a little gunshy, and may be over that now given the last month.

The biggest problem we have is that any bowl game is a road game for us, and a home game (more or less) for many of our potential opponents. We lost to LSU at the Sugar Bowl for crying out loud. I just don't see why LSU gets that kind of favoritism. Same with last year with Texas in the Fiesta Bowl. Make those teams play in some stadium in the midwest, and lets see what happens.

Sorry for ranting, but the bowl system is designed for the Big10 to fail, and yet people give us no slack what-so-ever in the national media. drives me nuts.

Anyway, my point is that location matters in these match-ups, and in a neutral site, I really believe we can hang with any of the teams this year, and while we might not be favored in any game, a win against Florida or 'Bama wouldn't surprise me at all. With a neutral field, not this crap system we have now.

So where in the midwest would you propose they play some of these bowl games? Where in the Midwest would it be attractive enough for sponsers and a fan base to travel to and hang out for 3 days-a week before the game in late Dec/early Jan? In the end it's all about $$$. Don't think the bowls would make as much coin in Detroit/Indianapolis/Minneapolis as they would in NOLA/Miami/Tempe/Pasadena. IMO

I thought based on recent history that tOSU travels and plays well in Az. How would that give Texas an unfair advantage?

The '07 NCG vs Florida was played in Glendale Az.(Neutral site) Who had the advantage? Florida because they play in warm weather and tOSU plays in colder temperatures? Didn't play to Miami's advantage in Jan of '03.

For the 9,000th time, any issue regarding the bowls is tied to money.

There is no "conspiracy" against the Big Ten. There is the simple fact that putting a bowl in a destination site with great weather will make more money than The "Illinois Midwest Bowl"

Didn't say it was a conspiracy, just that it sucked. I know there's no solution, and I know the effect is smaller than I want to think it is. Doesn't mean I can't hate the situation.

I mean, is it too much to ask to make a QB throw a TD pass in weather below 60 degrees before he can have two heismans? I always thought that football was a winter sport, not for that 70 degrees and sunny shit they have down there in Florida.

Anyway, I know that its all about money. I don't care why it is, I'm still entitled to hate it.