LE

I also don't think that a huge portion of the electorate believe that the Labour party is too left-wing, as you state. That would contradict the huge gains Labour (under Jeremy Corbyn) made in the last election. Folks aren't nearly as stupid as politicians like to think and when Labour came forward with a fully costed manifesto, they took notice. Not only was it fully costed, but it also contained items that were very dear to folks' hearts, for instance, bringing the NHS back into the public sector, building more affordable homes, re-nationalising the utilities, among many others. And what did the Tories have? A half-arsed manifesto in which they blithely stated: "We'll be doing all this and all that (including making pensioners forfeit their homes to pay for their care), but we don't actually know how and we'll tell you what it costs after we've won the election". It's small wonder that they actually lost and could only form a gobment by bribing the MPs from the Six Counties with £1.5 billion from a suddenly appearing "magic money tree".

LE

That’s right, folks still voted for them, although I’m not so sure about your conclusion that it was because the alternatives were too left-wing.

Labour certainly proposed an agenda that could be considered “left-wing” in the present political environment, but which would have been considered fairly “mainstream” in, say, the 1960s or 1970s. There’s also the point that Labour party managed to convert the largest number of votes since 1945. It’s also now by far the largest so-called “left-wing” party in Europe with almost a half-million members, as well as a promotional/supporting organisation (Momentum) comprising thousands more. All that is very difficult to explain with any sort of wishful thinking. There was obviously something in motion at the 2015 election that could be termed a “voting revolution”.

I believe the “problem” has far more to do with other fundamental conditions than your, in my opinion, rather simplistic statement: “the alternatives were too left-wing”. Tories will vote Tory, whatever happens. That may be down to “tradition”, that is, their parents “have always voted Tory”, of from a genuine (but sadly misguided) impression that the Tories really are doing their political best for everyone in the UK, regardless of “status”.

The very same could also be said of traditional Labour voters, no doubt, since the Labour party has successfully sold itself to the UK population as a party reputedly representing “the workers’ interests”, when from begin an it has always been a party to modulate between Capitalists and workers – to the inevitable detriment of the latter.

But the results of the 2015 election eclipsed any relevance to “traditional voting habits”. Things were moving on the political landscape that no-one could foresee and work against. Far more folks than before (in whatever age-group) realised (in my personal view because of the Brexit referendum) that they could actually make a difference with their vote – which was formerly, and without hope of any real change, used to vote for “the lesser (political) evil”.

What we now have is a situation indicating that the “normal” rules don’t apply. The Tory party sent out its best folks to persuade the crowd, but that wasn’t enough by far. The Tory party endeavoured to silence any criticism of its radical measures desighen to support the "status quo" by banning reporters from reporting and by banning any outlet from broadcasting negative news on pain of being excluded from gobment “press conferences”. Is that really what a “democracy” is all about?

MsG

Isch's Ziit füer aas Chücherli?

stacker1 is a MIME (Minimal Intelligence, Maximum Ego) and a textbook example of the Dunning-Kruger Effect.

LE

That’s right, folks still voted for them, although I’m not so sure about your conclusion that it was because the alternatives were too left-wing.

Labour certainly proposed an agenda that could be considered “left-wing” in the present political environment, but which would have been considered fairly “mainstream” in, say, the 1960s or 1970s. There’s also the point that Labour party managed to convert the largest number of votes since 1945. It’s also now by far the largest so-called “left-wing” party in Europe with almost a half-million members, as well as a promotional/supporting organisation (Momentum) comprising thousands more. All that is very difficult to explain with any sort of wishful thinking. There was obviously something in motion at the 2015 election that could be termed a “voting revolution”.

I believe the “problem” has far more to do with other fundamental conditions than your, in my opinion, rather simplistic statement: “the alternatives were too left-wing”. Tories will vote Tory, whatever happens. That may be down to “tradition”, that is, their parents “have always voted Tory”, of from a genuine (but sadly misguided) impression that the Tories really are doing their political best for everyone in the UK, regardless of “status”.

The very same could also be said of traditional Labour voters, no doubt, since the Labour party has successfully sold itself to the UK population as a party reputedly representing “the workers’ interests”, when from begin an it has always been a party to modulate between Capitalists and workers – to the inevitable detriment of the latter.

But the results of the 2015 election eclipsed any relevance to “traditional voting habits”. Things were moving on the political landscape that no-one could foresee and work against. Far more folks than before (in whatever age-group) realised (in my personal view because of the Brexit referendum) that they could actually make a difference with their vote – which was formerly, and without hope of any real change, used to vote for “the lesser (political) evil”.

What we now have is a situation indicating that the “normal” rules don’t apply. The Tory party sent out its best folks to persuade the crowd, but that wasn’t enough by far. The Tory party endeavoured to silence any criticism of its radical measures desighen to support the "status quo" by banning reporters from reporting and by banning any outlet from broadcasting negative news on pain of being excluded from gobment “press conferences”. Is that really what a “democracy” is all about?

You really do need to pay attention, I think you will find that the election you are referring to was in 2017, why should anyone believe your statements if you can not get the date of the election right, your whole argument falls upon such basic errors.

LE

Labour certainly proposed an agenda that could be considered “left-wing” in the present political environment, but which would have been considered fairly “mainstream” in, say, the 1960s or 1970s. There’s also the point that Labour party managed to convert the largest number of votes since 1945. It’s also now by far the largest so-called “left-wing” party in Europe with almost a half-million members, as well as a promotional/supporting organisation (Momentum) comprising thousands more. All that is very difficult to explain with any sort of wishful thinking. There was obviously something in motion at the 2015 election that could be termed a “voting revolution”.

Principled position. Now there's a phrase you never associate with the Socialist Workers Party. Recently abandoning the Trade Unionist and Socialist Coalition, after (reluctantly) cohabiting with the Socialist Party and the RMT to no discernible benefit whatsoever, the SWP decided talking to people on the doors about the issues that mattered to them was getting in the way of selling papers and organising A to B demonstrations. Which is entirely typical of them, of course.

However, it's Friday night so drink some turps, smoke some backy and regail us with tales from the left, Bugsy style.

We’ve all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true.

The man who invented predictive text has just pissed away. His funfair is next monkey.

If my posts are so apparently "abhorrent" to you, why don't you simply put me on "ignore", gobshite? Nothing simpler than that, is there? The fact is that you don't provides a clear clue as to why you obsessively continue to pursue me across ARRSE threads. Ever wondered about that. bollock-brain?

Just remember that you've dediced to derail (again) a thread dedicated to "The New Cold War" just to get in your entirely personal strokes against "Bugsy".

MsG

Isch's Ziit füer aas Chücherli?

stacker1 is a MIME (Minimal Intelligence, Maximum Ego) and a textbook example of the Dunning-Kruger Effect.

@Bugsy has been called out to a feral avian emergency and has asked me to post his pre-prepared reply...

Quote:
your inferiority complex is evident in the way you defend the septic gobment scrotal catatonia. I have a desert eagle and I give out rapey party leaflets in the city centre every Saturday so I know what it is like to parachute into my publishers with a few restored artworks from the People's Paradise.

Did you know I speak German in 98 languages and I pretend that I was an international drug dealer. So scrotal catatonia, where does that leave your stupid argument.
Quote ends:

Says the idiot who has made one post with reference to the new cold war (which was utter pish and quickly trashed by everyone)and then spent the next 14 pages completely off topic spouting his usual left wing bollocks!
But please carry on as I have nothing else planned tonight.

We’ve all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true.

The man who invented predictive text has just pissed away. His funfair is next monkey.

If my posts are so apparently "abhorrent" to you, why don't you simply put me on "ignore", gobshite? Nothing simpler than that, is there? The fact is that you don't provides a clear clue as to why you obsessively continue to pursue me across ARRSE threads. Ever wondered about that. bollock-brain?

Just remember that you've dediced to derail (again) a thread dedicated to "The New Cold War" just to get in your entirely personal strokes against "Bugsy".

LE

@Bugsy has been called out to a feral avian emergency and has asked me to post his pre-prepared reply...

Quote:
your inferiority complex is evident in the way you defend the septic gobment scrotal catatonia. I have a desert eagle and I give out rapey party leaflets in the city centre every Saturday so I know what it is like to parachute into my publishers with a few restored artworks from the People's Paradise.

Did you know I speak German in 98 languages and I pretend that I was an international drug dealer. So scrotal catatonia, where does that leave your stupid argument.
Quote ends:

Says the idiot who has made one post with reference to the new cold war (which was utter pish and quickly trashed by everyone)and then spent the next 14 pages completely off topic spouting his usual left wing bollocks!
But please carry on as I have nothing else planned tonight.

Now, intereresingly, why would all these fine, upstanding fellas opt to deliberately derail this thread about "The New Cold War, and instead, decide to pursue their very own highly personal and self-serving agendas, just to get in their very childish and playground licks at Bugsy, eh? Does anybody have any idea?

MsG

Isch's Ziit füer aas Chücherli?

stacker1 is a MIME (Minimal Intelligence, Maximum Ego) and a textbook example of the Dunning-Kruger Effect.

LE

Now, intereresingly, why would all these fine, upstanding fellas opt to deliberately derail this thread about "The New Cold War, and instead, decide to pursue their very own highly personal and self-serving agendas, just to get in their very childish and playground licks at Bugsy, eh? Does anybody have any idea?

So apart from your pathological hatred of all things American, who else do you think is a danger to world peace.
What about a rogue Middle East state?
Maybe the Russians?
Pakistan and India could kick off anytime, or maybe old Fat Boy in North Korea.

No Bugsy's world is falling apart because some anonymous guys on the internet are taking the piss!

We’ve all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true.

The man who invented predictive text has just pissed away. His funfair is next monkey.