43 years ago today: Four dead in Ohio

posted at 1:01 pm on May 4, 2013 by Jazz Shaw

Every year on this date, a somber anniversary rolls around which which we would all do well to never forget. It was on this day in 1970 when anti-war protesters at Kent State University were confronted by members of the Ohio National Guard. Thirteen seconds and 67 bullets later, more than a dozen of the students had been shot, leaving four dead and another permanently paralyzed. Two of the dead weren’t even taking part in the protest, but were passing through the area from one class to the next. One of them was an ROTC member. The names of those killed are:

The story of the Kent State shooting is far more complex than many people on either side of the debate might care to concede. (And it’s a debate that goes on to this day.) The event is frequently portrayed as a simple gathering of peaceful protesters who were attacked by the National Guard, but there’s a lot more to the story which must be kept in mind if we’re evaluate it honestly. Trouble and violence had begun three days earlier, with a campus protest which later that night spilled out into the streets of Kent, with drunken protesters – reportedly mixed with bikers and transients – setting fires and hurling bottles and rocks at police. These disturbances grew over the next two days, leading to the decision to call in the National Guard in the first place. On the day of the shootings, another group had defied an order to disburse and were again throwing rocks and other objects at guardsmen and police.

But even for all that, the event should never have been allowed to spiral out of control the way it did. Events were mishandled at every level, and in the end there is no disputing the fact that armed soldiers wound up opening fire on students with no firearms from a range of a couple hundred feet in most cases. And despite the behavior of some of them, the students were engaged in exercising their right of free speech and protesting the government’s policies. Being shot dead on campus grounds by government troops was not the end they deserved and remains a stain on our nation to this day. It’s a sad lesson which we should always keep in mind and important reminder for elected officials at every level. Something like this should never happen again.

I remember the day well. I was attending SIU Carbondale at the time. Although the killing was a terrible thing, blaming the kids in the Guard is an over simplification. They were being attacked with rocks, sticks, bottles, whatever. When one fired his gun (some say a protester fired)the rest thought they were being fired on, and fired back in self defense. This doesn’t excuse the killing, but it does help explain it. If the protesters had actually been peaceful, it wouldn’t have happened. The guard would never have been called.

I’ll take the Ohio state demonstrators over the morons who trashed Seattle this week … again … any day. Bottom line, nothing the Ohio State demonstrators did justified being shot.

If nothing else Ohio State was a lesson to those who think calling out a bunch of weekend warriors, no matter how pure their intentions, is the equivalent of having sufficient civilian police available who are trained in how to balance the amount of force required to allow even the dumbest among us to exercise their Constitutional rights.

And yet regarding four dead in Benghazi eight months ago, on the anniversary of 9/11 — in which 3000 died in a couple of hours on US soil at the hands of al Qaeda.

“Benghazi happened a long time ago” — WH spokesperson Jay Carney

“What difference at this point does it make?” (if murdered during a “spontaneous” protest over a video or by a deliberate al Qaeda sponsored terrorist attack) — Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, only a few months after their deaths.

The people in the protest are now in the faculty lounge. There are some in that lounge that would enjoy and wanted more bodies in the street from #OWS at the hands of the cops but none of them are willing to die for the cause (because for the most part they don’t even know what the cause is). In the last 43 years many have learned that tear gas, rubber bullets and bean bags are very affective in dispersing a crowd over shot fired.

The military are not police and should not be put into a police situation. Jazz is wrong. All are to blame, including the students. A civil protest is one thing. damaging other peoples property is another. When protests exceed the ability of normal police enforcement to contain and the National Guard must be called out to maintain order, then the problem is either that of civil authority being able to control the situation or the students exceeding first first amendment strictures of PEACEFUL assembly then, regardless of Jazz Shaw’s revisionist memory, the students excesses caused the problem. Two more points ) the guardsmen heard gunfire and thought they were being fired upon. 2) The girl in the picture tearing her hair and screaming over the fallen student was not a student at Kent State but an outside agitator

Shortly after this the government went into a stepped up, intensive training program for the Guard and Reserve, on reacting to extreme civil disorder.

If I hear one more moron (that is you jazz) refer to things like this as civil disobedience or demonstration, instead of rioting and destruction, I’ll read you the RIOT Act (look it up morons). I l
suppose Jazz thinks the Chicago “riots” were peaceful discourse of political questions.

As for the weekend warriors…they were out of Ravenna…had just come off a stint on the Ohio Turnpike…truckers strike…lots of random shootings by union truckers against “scab” truckers…live ammunition…stressed…yes…terrible leadership, as well, from the Governor on down.

Remember the students invading a college building, who, when they got pepper-sprayed, proclaimed, “We Won!”

Same tactic used by the Students for a Democratic Society, only with non-lethal results. The SDS (which spawned the Weather Underground terrorist group) didn’t mind breaking a few eggs to make that omelet.

Just for old times’ sake, there should, at least, be a picture of an NVA flag, associated with this thread. Ya know, the one that flew over so many college campuses, and in Hue, the Ia Drang valley, the A Shau valley, et al.

Convenient, isn’t it? – How those with college deferments bitched, moaned and groaned, while others did the fighting.

I see no point in mourning those who were obnoxious, in the wrong, and when given the opportunity to disperse, refused to avail themselves to it and instead decided to start attacking the National Guard.

The students thought they would see what would happen if they tried staging a takeover. They found out.

Being shot dead on campus grounds by government troops was not the end they deserved

Actually, it sort of was. When you see someone who is armed and you decide to attack them, don’t be surprised when they use their firearms to fight back. Thinking they’d never do that is worthy of a Darwin award. The students reaped what they sewed, and weren’t going to be saved from their own stupidity.

The same people, who told the country in the 1960s and 70s never to trust the government or ‘The Man,’ now call us part of ‘the black helicopter crowd’ because we agree with them…’the old them’…and have a great amount of skepticism when it comes to government.

I see no point in mourning those who were obnoxious, in the wrong, and when given the opportunity to disperse, refused to avail themselves to it and instead decided to start attacking the National Guard.

The students thought they would see what would happen if they tried staging a takeover. They found out.

One could say (and you probably do) the same thing about slain civil-rights workers in 1964 and Waco.

Squeal on you cowardly, un-American sow.

Capitalist Hog on May 4, 2013 at 1:49 PM

Oh, I’ve stood up for things before. I was just at the March for Life protest last year in fact. The difference between myself and the students though are noteworthy:

1.) I’ve never illegally and immorally seized control of an institution
2.) I’ve never assaulted an officer of the law
3.) I’ve never considered the cops or soldiers “pigs” that exist as punching bags whom I think I can assault without reprisal

What’s with the squeal and sow thing though? Even from your handle you really have an obsession with the entire pig-species. =P

Sorry, Jazz, but that was a riot going on. There is plenty enough blame to spread around to both sides. The NG were poorly trained and badly led, but they also thought they were under direct attack. I have sympathy for the ROTC member. The other 3, not so much.

Well you throw rocks and bottles at armed Guardsmen what do you expect to happen.
They provoked a fight with armed men and came off the worst for it. I do feel for the two who were killed getting to class, they were doing what they should have been doing, college work.
The fault rests with the hippies; not for protesting for that is every American’s right, but for intentionally escalating it to an armed conflict. They got the fight they were looking for.

I bet most were not even enrolled and had no business on campus at all.

Any hippies ask the Boat People how their lives were altered?
Any hippies ask a Cambodian how their lives were altered after the Khmer Rouge with the backing of the NVA took over in Cambodia after we left? Where was that b!tch Fonda?
Was Crosby too high on coke to write a song about them or was he getting a$$ love by his cell mate ( let’s hope that was a regular occurrence)?
What about that pile of dog turd Abbey Hoffman? Well at least he blew his brains out.

3.) I’ve never considered the cops or soldiers “pigs” that exist as punching bags whom I think I can assault without reprisal

First things first, idiot. You’re pairing two distinct characteristics and trying to pass them off as one. That is a false-dichotomy. It is unacceptable to any person with a working brain. When you decide to join the thinking I will entertain your reply.

Here’s a hint regarding my reply to your other inanities: Every student was not breaking the law.

Not exactly the Boston Massacre, was it?
DarkCurrent on May 4, 2013 at 1:54 PM

Quite similar. I believe the Boston event was youths throwing snowballs at a British sentry that was escalated by the Sons of Liberty. The key differences: Boston was not designed as a provocation. OS was. Also, Paul Revere was a top notch propagandist and the Brits had one heck of a good lawyer. By the way a Jury of Bostonians acquitted the British.

It was a very sad event, and the Guardsmen were poorly trained, but the college students (I was the same age, and in college.) were playing at Revolution. They simply did not believe that bad things could happen to them, any more than they understood the Vietnam War. It might be considered heartless to say “evolution in action,” but not without accuracy. As others have said, some of their ideological colleagues are running the country.

“… there is no disputing the fact that armed soldiers wound up opening fire on students with no firearms from a range of a couple hundred feet in most cases. And despite the behavior of some of them, the students were engaged in exercising their right of free speech and protesting the government’s policies….”

Yes, there are MAJOR DISPUTES over this shooting. Vidoe of the incifdent shows students CORNERING guardsmen. This was NOT some random shooting from any sort of distance. The students deliberatly provoked the attack.

PS: That silly picture you are using has NOTHING to do with the actual shooring. NOTHING!

The inevitable result of spoiled adult children and D-grade Marxist revolutionaries pelting trained soldiers with whatever they could throw, when the latter had finally had enough. And that’s IF they weren’t fired at, which is not unlikely.

Only a libtard traitor would call those imbeciles “martyrs”.

At the absolute bare minimum, if you don’t want this to happen again, send the Guardsmen with something more than a rifle and orders to the effect of “point things at the great unwashed and hope they get a clue.”

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Kenosha Kid on May 4, 2013 at 2:15 PM

Exactly. And when you grow up, the prizes get bigger. Play stupid games when you’re little and get a spanking, play stupid games as an adult and the “prize” is often death.

I see no point in mourning those who were obnoxious, in the wrong, and when given the opportunity to disperse, refused to avail themselves to it and instead decided to start attacking the National Guard.

The students thought they would see what would happen if they tried staging a takeover. They found out.

Stoic Patriot on May 4, 2013 at 1:34 PM

Exactly. The ‘students’ found out exactly what it meant to try the great uprising they’d been whispering about between classes and in their apartments on a pot binge. And they proved to the whole world that they were NOT revolutionary material…mainly because they wet their pants and ran the first time somebody shot back.

Kent State was a showcase to America that they were nothing more than spoiled children who had gone far too long without a well-earned thrashing.

The governor of Ohio and the guardsmen who fired (and who were in no immediate danger at the time) should have been out on trial and if found guilty, executed.

NealK on May 4, 2013 at 2:26 PM

God you are a little milksop.

Charge the governor with incompetence, fine. He sure as hell was. Charge the guardsmen with responding in one of only two ways they could? Bullsh!t. (the other way was to charge and use the butt ends of their rifles)

You want to put down a riot and send in soldiers with live ammo right after they’ve been in a tense situation – as was already pointed out upthread – to be pelted with bricks and rocks and bottles?

The event that spawned the song that Richard Cohen cried to while riding his elliptical, the one he imagined happening again while Dubya was POTUS.

But now we have government drones flying overhead and entire cities being shut down by as houses are invaded without warrants by whomever the State sends in. Richard Cohen and his fellow leftist trash aren’t crying anymore, probably because Barky and the demorats are smarter than everyone else.

2) The girl in the picture tearing her hair and screaming over the fallen student was not a student at Kent State but an outside agitator

Old Country Boy on May 4, 2013 at 1:17 PM

Bingo! That was a photo op by the communists, note the dramatic pose vs any attempt to help the fallen. And the MSM of the day was happy to promote the propaganda. Contrast that with pictures from Boston.

Bingo! That was a photo op by the communists, note the dramatic pose vs any attempt to help the fallen. And the MSM of the day was happy to promote the propaganda. Contrast that with pictures from Boston.

Not at all unlike the resident a$$thiest who rails about “Christian Sharia”, which he’s never seen nor will ever see, or the posters who throw Godwin out the window on a Ron Paul thread.

What about the people cornering and attacking them, surely they should have been put on trial too.

Hindsight on this sad event is crystal clear apparently.

Bishop on May 4, 2013 at 2:36 PM

The people attacking them were tried, found guilty, and sentenced by the simplest laws of nature. Little laws like “people who, without any provocation, throw things at those who can kill them with almost no effort may get hurt or killed”.

My God, even an illiterate caveman knew better than to throw rocks at a saber-tooted tiger. Only a modern ‘civilized’ person would be stupid enough to play rev-o-lution against a bunch of armed soldiers.

A bunch of Jane Fonda Hippies offering assault,violence and mayhem?
Ummm yeah…I wound have responded the same way as would the LEO’s I use to work with. If their was incompetence and mass chaos by the Guard/Gov ..not a surprise. The dead not involved..I care yet this isn’t new. Check your local paper.
ZZZZZZZZZ I don’t effin care.

Why yes ANIPH-Bengazi..I care about those MEN. Their heinous murder, rape, misery, their families!
I care about the video lie and cover up.
I care about a speech to the UN stating the future is not for those that slander effing Islam.
I care about the lies to protect as$$es and prop Jihad.

43rd Anniversary of a Failed Violent Overthrow of a Peaceful State Institution by Unwashed Marxist Thugs.

This should be the headline Jazz.

Bubba Redneck on May 4, 2013 at 2:41 PM

And we should all be thankful it was stopped where it was. Uncontrolled riots are very much like fire – a little flame can grow very quickly. Imagine if it had resulted in the entire town being wrecked…or if ‘copycat’ riots had sprung up at other colleges. Not a pretty picture folks!

I think I’ll go make a toast right now to the National Guard for foiling it with some root beer I have handy.

Bingo! That was a photo op by the communists, note the dramatic pose vs any attempt to help the fallen. And the MSM of the day was happy to promote the propaganda. Contrast that with pictures from Boston.

The actual investigation is pretty damning on the students. I despise wimsy that ignores facts. Four deaths is terrible, calling the National Guard to shut down protests on a campus is irresponsible cowardice, throwing rocks and bottles at the Guardsmen is akin to poking a stick at a dog behind an open fence.

Kent State is a liberal siren’s song that is played too often and is full of lies and memes.