The father of the baby wants me to terminate the pregnancy.I felt too depressed about the whole situation and went ahead and made an appointment. I can't do this anymore.No men want my babies.This will be the second termination in two years. I'm so wrong with this life of mine.I'm doing this life all wrong. The way that he manipulates me is that he says he's coming to visit me to talk thinks over (i'm led to believe in a positive way) then he lists all the ways in which we could never have it.Then he lists all the problems I have.I'm glad that the termination will mean that I never have to see him ever again.For that I'm gratefull.I'm sorry I wasted your time fellow Busties and I wish you all the luck with your children and remember that it's always easier to have the father on board. I've had no support from him.He's turned me into a hateful person and I'm just wanting this to be all over. I just want to move away from Sydney to a friendly town in the tropics.I feel that at 31 I'm never going to have a relationship that is loving or serious. Things are really depressing right now.Not only have I been rejected, but my unborn baby has too.My self esteme is shot.I feel that I'm not meant to have children.That I'm destined to live alone in my flat forever.

ananke

Jul 11 2009, 03:17 AM

Datagirl, is there anyone else you can talk to? You don't have to terminate just because he wants you to, you really don't. It's your choice, not his - he doesn't get to decide this for you.

funnybird

Jul 11 2009, 04:00 AM

Datagirl, Ananke is right. This is your decision to make and no-one else's. Please please please don't let yourself be pushed into anything by this man. (((Datagirl)))

zelda

Jul 11 2009, 08:06 AM

First, datagirl...I have never been in your position and can't pretend to know what you are feeling...but please, please do not make this decision based solely on the baby's father. I know it is hard to separate out the two, but the others are right, he does NOT get to make this decision for you. Could you call back that pregnancy support line you'd called earlier? Is there anyone else you could speak with? I would just hate to see you make a decision based solely on this baby's father.

You CAN do this on your own. Many women do. You can and will. Even if it is difficult...of course we will support your decision either way, but I would hate to think of you being pushed into this by anyone else.

Michelina, major hugs to you. You're not selfish, you're just having a natural reaction that I would have, too. Trust me, I KNOW how you feel. I have heard about so many pregnancies through Facebook, I have actually been afraid to go there sometimes! Back in my high school days, I hung out with a group of three other girls. The four of us were pretty tight, and now we're all married. None of us is pregnant yet, but I'm scared to look and see - even though we don't even hang out or live in the same city anymore!

I know it's so difficult when you want something so badly and it seems like everything else is getting it but you. The only thing I can tell you is that remember that everyone has their shit to deal with. A friend of mine who very easily got pregnant with her two kids just told me this past week that her husband left her for another woman...I went over to comfort her and as she sat and told me all of the things she is going through (many things that I didn't know about him), I realized that my big problem - not conceiving as fast as I would like - looked so small compared to her problem. And there she sat, one of those women who "it just happened" to, not once but twice. We all have our shit to deal with.

I know that may not be helpful, but it helps me to think that way.

Fookie, glad you're still poking around...check in with us, please. Of course you must make the choice you think is best, but I for one hope you consider the IUI in September. You and Mr. F are going to be great parents. I still believe this will happen for us.

julie124

Jul 11 2009, 06:26 PM

oh, loves....these are hard times, I know...

(((datagirl)))Like zelda and others, I haven't been in your specific situation and can't begin to know what you're feeling. I know you'll do what's best for you. But like others who have spoken, I really hope you are making the decision because it's right for you, not because it's what the father wants or because he's pushing you into it.

Yes, it will be hard to have this baby. No, you won't be able to count on him (confirmed by the behavior he's displayed the last few days), and in many ways that will make it harder. Yes, you will have to set firm boundaries to avoid having him suck you in emotionally (but something tells me you were going to have to do that anyway). But if having this baby is what you want - you can do it. Don't let him decide for you. We all will support you no matter what choice you make - we know you'll do what is right for you.

I hope I'm not out of line, but frankly his behavior is pissing me the hell off. In my view, this is all about him not wanting to grow up, wanting to be able to keep you at arm's length by this kind of emotional manipulation. This is all about making life easier for HIM, not for you. And you know what? Fuck him for treating you like you and this pregnancy are some sort of obstacle to his comfort, to the extent that you feel doubly rejected. You deserve having someone who truly treasures you and loves you, and I believe you can and will find that, no matter what you decide to do about the pregnancy. /end rant

Again, I hope I'm not out of line. It just brings out the mama bear in me when I see a kickass woman like you doubting themselves because of someone else's asshattery.

((Fookie))I'm glad you're still checking in. Take care of yourself - I know you'll do what's right for you.

((Michelina))You're not selfish for feeling bad at news of another pregnancy that is not yours. It is frankly ridiculous to expect someone who wants something so much to feel nothing but unmitigated joy when someone else gets it. What are we, robots? I'm sorry, I know it hurts. Just don't beat yourself up for it.

((Busties))So, I have a happy ending story to share. Today is my nephew's first birthday. You might remember that I posted last month about my niece who was stillborn (at 40 weeks) two years ago. My nephew is her little brother (and they have another big sister, my first niece, who will be 5 later this year). What their parents have had to go through when they lost their second daughter, I can barely begin to imagine, and I know my sister-in-law was so scared through her pregnancy with my nephew...it was a really difficult time and she was really down for a long time. I feel like my nephew brought her back to us. He is such a precious gift and he is proof that good things are possible, even after pain and loss.

Okay, this has been INCREDIBLY long and I'm getting all goopy now, so I'm going to shut up and let someone else talk. Love to all y'all...

zelda

Jul 12 2009, 04:24 PM

Thanks for sharing the story of your nephew, julie...so sweet and it's always so nice to hear good news like that. I cannot even imagine the pain your brother and sister-in-law had to go through...it's great their third pregnancy had such a happy ending. And you can always get goopy on this thread.

Speaking of goopy, let me tell you about my egg white cervical mucus! (Yes, yes, I just went there.) I woke up this morning, "swimming in egg white" as our friend from TCOYF would write. I mean, it was ridiculous. Last month I had zero EWCM, and this morning there was as much as that woman in the book with the scary fingernails (those of you who are fans of "Taking Charge" know what I mean...funnybird has referenced the same nails).

We did it this evening anyway...it's CD 11 for me...and it seems I ovulate anywhere from day 13 to day 15. I'm hoping the high quality mucus means that Mr. Z's jiz can live on in there for a while.

Mr. Z had a stomachache this afternoon...I sort of had to motivate him to get it on. I think I'll give him a break tomorrow and see if I can coerce him into doing it on days 13, 14, and 15. Or at least two out of those three days.

I wish I could understand what the mucus means in connection with ovulation. I always thought you got the most mucus on the day of ovulation itself...but is that wrong?

Hope everyone is doing okay today...datagirl, how are you feeling?

Cristine

Jul 12 2009, 04:46 PM

Zelda, I am keeping my fingers crossed for you! I'm on CD 3 and waiting for TCOYF to arrive! The BBQ yesterday was great and really took my mind off my period! Good luck to all the TTC'ers!

zelda

Jul 12 2009, 05:08 PM

Cristine, glad you ordered the book. You will really find it helpful.

Keep in mind that it is okay (in my opinion) if you decide not to take your temperature. It made me *crazy*...but it is still informative...especially the info about the cervical mucus and the position of the cervix. When you get the book, flip to the colored photos in the middle...you will know what we are talking about when we say "the lady with the crazy fingernails."

Laurenzorro

Jul 12 2009, 11:52 PM

Just a quick question our of curiosity for all you ladies... How old were you (or are for those who are currently trying) when you had your first child? Did you ever feel that you were too young? How do you feel about it now? Do you feel that there IS there a right age or is it much like anything else where if it feels right it usually is?

ellenevenstar

Jul 13 2009, 12:39 AM

(((datagirl))) Hope you're travelling OK. I can only echo what others have said. Please don't end the pregnancy if you don't want to. I've been thinking of you heaps.

zelda! go for it!!!! Fingers and toes crossed for you!!

Laurenzorro, The Mr and I are both 31 and trying to conceive our first child. I think the right age is when you feel ready! I've been really blessed: I've done lots of study and travelling since finishing school and leaving home at 17. Through my 20s I always thought I'd look to start having kids around 30 and I'm really glad things have turned out the way they have. While ttc I have moments when I fear we have waited too long (we've been together since we were 18!) but hopefully I've got plenty of years left in me yet. We plan to have 3 children in fairly quick succession, fingers crossed!

Like julie, I'm going to finish with some good news and that is that I'm on CD 31 and have tested positive!! After miscarrying my last pregnancy on March 1st, I am incredibly nervous. I'm hyper-aware of every single sensation. Like during my last pregnancy, I've had a bit of light cramping which I'm finding very, very scary... so while I'm overjoyed, I'm also feeling very cautious and trying to stay calm, to not allow any stress or anxiety to affect my body chemistry!!

Michelina

Jul 13 2009, 06:44 AM

Ellenevenstar, congratulations!!! It will take some time for the anxiety to lessen, and it's totally normal to feel that way. I am glad that despite that, you are feeling excitement! Staying as stress-free as possible sounds like a good plan, but don't beat yourself up if you do feel anxious now and then. Although it's best not to be stressed for many health reasons, stress alone isn't proven to cause miscarriages. Have you shared your news with anyone but your husband?

Datagirl, I hope you are doing okay. I am also thinking of you and I agree with the others. Please only end this pregnancy if it is truly what you want. If that is the case, then your decision is supported. I hope you have found some good sources of support through this.

Zelda and Julie, thanks for your words. I know I shouldn't beat myself up for feeling down. You are right Julie, we are not robots. I sometimes feel I am, though, when it comes to the constant congratulations over FB. I feel like I should have a few lines saved and just cut and paste. :-) Seriously, though, thanks for the reminder that these feelings are normal and okay, and not selfish. I sobbed on Friday night, but felt good the rest of the weekend. I think I just needed to let it out.

Zelda, I had a lot of fertile CM at least 3 days before ovulation this cycle too. Go for it!

Cristine, I also love TCOYF. Glad to hear you ordered it. I take my temps now as I'll have to show the doctors. But I think the only thing useful in temping for most people is being able to confirm you have ovulated if you are unsure. And that means only temping for a few days. Let us know if you have questions - there's a lot of experience on this board, I'm sure.

Laurenzorro, I second what Ellen said about there being no right age. It's more about where you are in your life and whether you are ready. I'm 31 and have also done a lot of traveling, have moved around the country a little, and have accomplished many of my goals. We are both more than ready for this next step.

Mr. M is absolutely wonderful with our 2-year-old niece. It's beautiful to watch him with her. He will make an amazing father.

funnybird

Jul 13 2009, 06:44 AM

Woo hoo ellen, that's such awesome news! Congratulations to you both! I understand your nervousness though. We'll all be rooting for you and your tiny bean for the next 8 weeks.

bustygirl

Jul 13 2009, 08:07 AM

data--don't end the pregnancy unless you want to, or if you don't feel you can give up a baby but can't afford to care for it.

I don't know about the laws in Australia, but in the US, if a man helps conceive a child, then he's legally obligated to help pay for that child until its 18. If Australia's laws are similar, then once the baby is born, should you decide to have it, take his sorry ass to court.

It was his decision as well as yours to have unprotected (or ineffectually protected) sex. So don't take this burden on yourself just because he wants you to have an abortion. He doesn't get to throw his hands up and say "Well, you deal with it, then!" It doesn't work that way. If he really didn't want a family, there's a thing called condoms he can buy, and use. Every time. Otherwise he's just being a manipulative jackass, and sorry, but it's time he grew up like everyone else.

If you can't raise the baby properly yourself, or don't think you can at this time, but really don't want to end the pregnancy, there is always the adoption route. Some agencies will even let you have an open adoption (again, speaking for the US--you'll have to research your own countries laws) where once you have given the baby to another family, you can still play a part in its life. It will know who you are, and vice versa, though you won't raise it yourself.

It is very difficult to raise a child. I won't lie or insult your intelligence by glossing it over. I haven't ever done anything in my life that comes close to being this hard, and I've had some bad times before this. I can't imagine doing it on my own, without a break. If you don't have a good support system around you besides him, I'd think long and hard about keeping it. I'm not suggesting abortion is the only way (although it is a viable alternative, and in some situations the only humane one) but raising a child is incredibly hard. Harder than you will ever be able to determine from the outset. Hard in ways you won't see coming.

Whatever you decide to do, understand you will doubt yourself in the days to come. It's only natural when facing something this large. There's no decision you can make that you won't regret from time to time, including having the child. So sit down, figure out as logically as possible what the best thing for you is (and fuck the father--he hasn't the maturity to make this decision with you.) and go with it.

If at all possible, I'd tell the dad that he's not going to be the one to make this decision, and to stay out of it. Realize you are your own worst enemy when it comes to him because you want his approval and his love, and it's obvious he cares more for himself than your or your pregnancy. The best thing you can expect out of him is a child care check should you decide to have the baby. Men like that don't grow up unless they're forced to, and if this hasn't forced him, he's not gonna.

zelda

Jul 13 2009, 08:35 AM

Bustygirl, you have given some excellent advice...excellent. Datagirl, I hope you are doing okay...please check in soon!

Ellen...woo hooo!!!!!!!!!!!! It is great to have some positive news on this thread. I am so happy for you and Mr. E. And I second what Michelina said. I am a pretty anxious person although I'm getting better with age (I even had panic attacks in college), and I worry sometimes that stress could affect conception or pregnancy. But Michelina is right...there are *no* studies that suggest *average* anxiety could cause a miscarriage. I am thinking great thoughts for the two of you! So glad to wake up to some good news.

Laurenzorro, to answer your question...I am 32 and Mr. Z is 41. I think we are at the perfect age. If anything, sometimes I wish Mr. Z was a little younger, but it is what it is. We've spent 10 years together and are definitely ready for the next step. Like Michelina, I, too, have been fortunate enough to travel, spent time on my own and with Mr. Z, try different jobs, etc. We're now in a position where we own a home, are happy with our jobs/careers, and are financially stable. I suppose it may have been easier to conceive 5 years ago, but we were certainly not in the position then that we are now. I was actually just talking about this with a friend of mine because of that new MTV show, "16 and Pregnant." Not sure if it is on in other countries, but it follows teenage girls having their first baby. At first I thought it would glamorize it, but it shows the honest truth...life is really hard for these girls. I told my friend, "Better I never have a baby than have had a baby at the wrong time in my life."

Still...I do think that, in the end, you get what you can handle on some level...if I *had* gotten pregnant 5 years ago, we would have managed...it's just that right now, I feel like our timing would be perfect.

Woo...long answer.

I woke up this morning once again with a ton of egg white cervical mucus. I think I'm going to try and get Mr. Z to take advantage of it tonight after work. I haven't had this much in *months*! Despite what the OPK test says, I think it's best to follow the signals my body is giving me and make it work to my advantage!

julie124

Jul 13 2009, 08:42 AM

I need to get to work but am just popping to say a couple of things:

First, ellenevenstar, congratulations on testing positive! You and your little one are in my thoughts. I know how nerve-wracking the first few weeks are, and I'm sure they are doubly so for you. One thing that helped me was remembering something my sister-in-law said a lot during her pregnancy: "Hope doesn't make bad things happen." All good things!

Laurenzorro, I would echo the others in saying that when to start having kids really depends on the couple and where they are in their lives. For me, I felt ready at about 31 or so, really wanted to start at 32, and well, I'm 36 now and pregnant with #1. mr. julie was not on the same readiness schedule as I was. Frankly, I think before we decided to start trying that he liked the idea of having kids "someday," but that was more of a theoretical someday off in the future. I don't really regret waiting so long to try to conceive - what I regret more was wasting a few years of our relationship being really unhappy and not addressing that until a couple of years ago.

zelda, you made me laugh out loud. I had totally forgotten about the lady with the scary fingernails! I also like the reproduction of the greeting card pregnancy test, which instructs you to pee on it. "Then throw it away, it's yucky. Wait nine months. If you have a baby, you were pregnant at the time of the test."

zelda

Jul 13 2009, 01:49 PM

Question for TTC Busties...

What do you count as day 1 of your cycle? If you get your period at 10 o'clock at night, is that day 1? I am reviewing some old calendars/cycles, trying to get a better understanding of when I ovulated. Twice my period has started in the evenings...does that still count as day 1?

Cristine

Jul 13 2009, 03:17 PM

Congratulations Ellen!!!!!!

Zelda, the CD 1 thing is a tough question... I guess if I start at night, depending on how late it is, I might consider the next day to be the official day 1. But I really don't know, sorry.

Lauren, I feel like I've wanted a baby forever! But do I feel like I'm ready? I have absolutely no clue! My husband and I have been dating since he was 18 & I was 17 (14 years ago), we have lived together for 9 years, we got engaged in November 2006 & married in April of this year... it's been a long time! But right after we got married something just clicked & we're now starting month 3 of TTC! When I met him he had a 2 year old niece and he's always been so amazing with her, that's a big comfort for me & I feel that even if we're not ready that we're going to love the hell out of this kiddo!!

Zelda & Michelina, I'm very excited about getting the book & still haven't completely made up my mind on temp'ing but I'll keep you posted!! And yes I am so curious about the picture of the chick with the creepy fingernails!!!

zelda

Jul 13 2009, 06:59 PM

I did a little research, and there doesn't seem to be a clear answer on the CD1 question. From what some women say on some of the scary boards, their fertility doctors tell them that if you start bleeding before, say, 3 pm or so, that's CD1. If not, the next day is CD1. Others say that any spotting counts, but the overwhelming majority seem to go with the former, not the latter...so I think if I started spotting at night, the next day is CD1.

Mr. Z and I got bizzee tonight (oh yeaaaaah). I told him that this week I wanted to "power load" with sperm. I just made up that term...do not know why. He laughed and said okay. My OPK today looked *almost* positive and will most likely be positive tomorrow. So I guess we're going to try and go for almost every day this week! That combined with my copious EWCM, and I am feeling hopeful. But I've been through this enough to know I can't be super hopeful just because of timing. But the EWCM is making me feel really excited. Last month we had excellent timing, but for some reason, I had literally no mucus of any kind. I think it had something to do with that mini mild yeast infection I had. At least it is back this month...the EWCM, not the yeast, I mean.

Before I go out of town, I'm going to ask him to consider getting the SA while I'm gone. Hopefully, he will.

Cristine

Jul 13 2009, 08:09 PM

Zelda, I am so hoping this is your month!!!

A little something strange in my new cycle. So as you all know, last month was an unreasonable 39 days and now I just had a 3 day period... I'm usually about 6 days.

Michelina, I know you said that your cycle when starting TTC that your cycle got a little crazy. Can you give me more details on cycle length & period changes?

LaurenZ- I'm 30 and mr. Yum is 36- we've been together 12 years and we definately feel the time is right. Honestly, if not for life circumstances, we probably would have started ttc a few years ago, but we are in a good place right now. I don't think any one age is the right age; there are so many other variables.

Datagirl- have you considered talking to a professional counselor? I've never been in your position but I can imagine it's an extremely difficult place for you to be. Do some soul searching and do what your gut tells you...

Zelda- Nice work on loading up with sperm- we're kinda going that route this cycle too. As for the first cycle day, I don't really pay attention to the time, I just count it as the first day regardless of when it starts. That might account for some of the variability in my cycles!

So the mr. and I are going to have the sex again tonight- I have had hardly any EWCM thus far so that is concerning- usually I have a good day or two of it. I'm so thankful for Preseed. Also, I haven't had a positive OPK yet but it does appear to be building. I had some sharp stabbing pain going down the inside of my left thigh this evening. Weird- maybe ovulatory pain? Anyway, we'll do the sex anyway and see what comes of it.

ananke

Jul 14 2009, 12:56 AM

Fallon is having some sort of growth spurt, so this feels like the first break from feeding/fussing/changing that I've gotten today but I wanted to give my best to those hopeing for success this month, or who just got the positive! And to say that I'm 27, Mr A is 28. We've been together six years, married for four, but always knew we wanted kids. We started trying 'early' because i'd been told I couldn't get pregnant naturally and my mother started going through menopause in her mid-thirties (although she was also one of those 'oh god it's menopause! oh wait, I'm pregnant! women, but sadly miscarried). Turns out those doctors were REALLY REALLY wrong. Luckily we waited until the bare minimum of our 'requirements' for babymaking had been met - we own our own place, I'd been at my job long enough to get maternity leave and I felt reasonably stable coming off the hormonal BC and anti-depressants. We would have handled it had it happened any time during the relationship, but those were our green lights. The only other thing we would have waited for is a stable job for me in our home city rather than thousands of kilometres from our families.

Cristine, I'm sure Michelina will answer your question, but I've read that anything from 21 to 35 days is a normal cycle and that three days of bleeding is still within the normal range. I'm sure cycles that fall outside of those parameters (like a 39 day cycle) once in a while are still okay...in fact, your 39 "cycle" may have been anovulatory (you didn't ovulate) which happens to lots of women once in a while and isn't a sign anything is wrong.

A friend of mine had 35 days cycles and was able to get pregnant no problem - the only frustrating part was that she had to wait so long between fertile periods. As "Taking Charge" explains, one reason some women seem more fertile than others is they have shorter than average cycles - giving them more fertile days every year.

Have you had a recent check up with your GYN? It might be a good idea to go in for the all clear since you're really TTC now.

Cristine

Jul 14 2009, 11:54 AM

Zelda, I haven't yet gone to the doctor. I actually hate my GP but have been too lazy over the years to switch. I intended on visiting a highly recommended OBGYN once I got a positive, but I called them on Thursday to set up an appointment since I was so late & still getting negatives... they didn't want to do a blood test without a positive home test BUT they said I should consult with their medical advisor. So I left a voicemail and still have yet to hear back. I'm not going to call them and say I started my period because now I'm curious how damn long it will take for them to call me back! Needless to say I'm now seriously questioning how comfortable I'll feel during my pregnancy if this is how the office runs!

So last night my husband told me that he's been noticing much less semen in comparison to normal and he's now worried that's what the problem is. What does everyone think? Could that really matter since it's just 1 lucky little guy that needs to get to my egg? I know it might lessen the probability and increase the time of TTC, but would it really eliminate our chances of conceiving naturally?

Oh and Zelda it really is irritating at the time in between TTC, why can't I have a typical 28 day cycle??? Ok, sorry for bitching!

zelda

Jul 14 2009, 12:37 PM

Cristine, Mr. Z has noticed varying amounts of his semen depending on how often it's been since his last ejaculation (the greater the amount of time since his last ejaculation, the more he has). Also, he's noticed that for some reason he doesn't ejaculate as much if he's just peed. (Yes, these are the things we talk about.)

I know age also affects things. Men typically have less ejaculate as they grow older even though older men are still able to father children. Remember, it's the sperm at issue here (which is microscopic, obviously), not necessarily the amount of semen. A man could have a LOT of ejaculate (semen/sperm) but if his sperm is not healthy he could jizz out a cupload and it wouldn't matter. (Sorry for the image.) I don't think there not being a ton of ejaculate is really anything to worry about unless, of course, he's experiencing other issues like pain or no ejaculate at all or something.

I would say you should try for at least a good 6 months before you send him for a semen analysis. I can't remember how old you said he is, but if he's healthy and relatively young, then some research indicates he should still have a good sperm count even if he ejaculates once a day. In fact, a recent study just came out that indicated that the more frequently a man ejaculates, the fewer damaged sperm he has.

Some doctors and studies say every other day is better because it means each time he ejaculates, he'll be depositing a strong batch of sperm, but the more I read, the less I believe that is true.

If that doctor's office hasn't called back yet, I say forget them! Can you ask a friend or friends for a recommendation for a good OBGYN? It might be worth it for peace of mind to go in for a check up before you continue trying, and also to establish a rapport with a new doctor.

As for me, I had a definite positive OPK today (yay!) on CD 13, so we'll try to do it tonight. We won't be able to tomorrow as he has rehearsal for a show he is in, but I'm thinking we can work it in on Thursday morning. That means we'll have done it CD 11, 12, 13, and 15. Hopefully that will be decent.

Oddly enough, even though today I am having a super positive OPK result, I am not having as much EWCM as the past two days. Not sure why...wouldn't it make sense to have the most EWCM on the day of ovulation or the day prior to? But according to TCOYF, your "peak day" is really the last day of wetness, not necessarily the last day of EWCM.

Cristine

Jul 14 2009, 01:54 PM

Zelda I love your frank (and descriptive) words!! Mr. C is 32 & I am 31 until Friday. Just a little TMI for you, he pees before sex EVERY time so that's an interesting thought. And if frequent ejaculation results in healthy sperm, I think we're good there! Thanks for your opinions & advice, I feel much more relieved!

I am really crossing my fingers for you this month!!!

zelda

Jul 14 2009, 03:58 PM

I appreciate the crossed fingers, Cristine. I am feeling pretty positive this cycle in terms of timing and EWCM, but I am beginning to wonder if I'll ever see that positive pregnancy test. Sigh...

I'm glad my frank talk helped you. As you'll quickly learn, there's no such thing as TMI here...the human body and reproduction is an awesome thing, and I say better to just be blunt and up front about everything.

ananke

Jul 14 2009, 04:15 PM

Christine, your ob can be brilliant and just have (one) crap staff. It'll be pages and pages back, but my ob (who is fucking awesome) has two receptionists and two midwives (who occasionally work the desk). Between the two receptionists they fucked up my referral for an ultrasound about five times - one told me i don't need it (because she's apparently my doctor now), then didn't ring back to say I did, then faxed it through to the wrong place THREE TIMES in spite of the receptionist at the ultrasound calling her with the correct number and then left for lunch without telling the new receptionist about it and she then faxed it incorrectly TWICE.

Yet the midwives and the ob are awesome and great to deal with.

Cristine

Jul 14 2009, 04:24 PM

Zelda - I know this time is so hard and soon you'll be in that crazy 2 week limbo, but just hang in there because it WILL happen! I'm like you in the sense that I'm a total control freak and when I want something, I want it now!!! Mr. C isn't necessarily a laid back person, but he is whenever I'm over the top about something... I think it's some sort of irritating attempt to calm me down! And actually I didn't really talk to him about false symptoms, obsessing over my cycle or that I was reading (and freaking out over) other people's experiences. I thought he would roll his eyes and think I'm crazy... and maybe he would have if I would have told him back in month 1 when we thought getting pregnant would be easy! But after month 2's failure I gave him a few tidbits just to test him and he seemed very interested and even started asking me questions, so now he's up to speed on everything AND I even found out that he looked up stuff online too!!! And he's the one that convinced me I should join in the conversation with you guys!! So now I can be a control freak openly in our home!

Fookie

Jul 14 2009, 04:37 PM

Ellen, congratulations! What fantastic news! Yahooooooooooo. Just go with this and try not to worry (easier said than done and sooooooo weird for it to come from me who worries all the time). Keep us posted on everything. I am so curious to hear all the early week symptoms.

I'm behind in my board reading so I hope I don't leave anyone out.

((((Datagirl)))) Are you ok? Whatever decision you make you always have a home on this board to come and rant or ask questions. You sound like the kind of woman who makes decisions for herself, so know that whatever you decide you will be doing what's right for you.

Cristine, as Zelda was saying, the semen is not necessarily representative of the quantity or quality of sperm in the ejaculate. You and your partner are both relatively young, in terms of fertility timelines, so waiting until at least six months (or a year) before consulting your doctor about tests etc. is probably the way to go if you're healthy and don't know of any previously diagnosed issues that could hinder your ability to conceive.

Zelda, thank you for saying that you hope I'll go back for the fourth IUI in September. I think I will. Yay. The sun is shining on the side of my cheek right now and I think it may have just crept into my heart (ha ha. how cheeeeeesy). I'm starting to feel hope again.

Mr. F. just walked in and it's Taco Tuesday, so I'm out. I'll check in again tomorrow.

Cristine

Jul 14 2009, 05:06 PM

Ananke, thanks for the advice. If so many people say this doctor is good then maybe I will give it another chance!

Fookie, I believe we're healthy enough in that we have no issues to speak of. We're not some health freaks or anything, we bought 2 bikes like 6 months ago and have ridden them TWICE!!! Pretty pathetic. There aren't any family health issues that would be related to fertility, so I think I just need to give it time and track my cycle better.

Thanks for the support guys!!!

yumyum

Jul 14 2009, 05:17 PM

So right after I wrote my last entry (last night) I got ready for bed and noticed that I had a bunch of EWCM with a tiny streak of blood- yay! I still haven't had a posititve OPK yet, hmmm.... I think I'm going to see if I can get the mr interested in sex again tonight; the problem is I feel like I might be getting a UTI. Does anyone else get these?

zelda

Jul 14 2009, 06:57 PM

Yes...just give it time, Cristine. It's okay if it doesn't happen right away. It doesn't mean anything is wrong. (Trust me, I tell myself that every day!)

Yumyum, I am one of the few women I know who has *never* had a UTI...but I've had my share of yeast infections. I know sex can be super painful with one of those. I say, if it's not bad yet, go ahead and try and get some sex in tonight or tomorrow morning if you can. I trust my body's signals with the OPK to back them up. Then you can have some sperm floating around in there for a while in case you end up not being able to do it again later on.

I had to pretty much tackle Mr. Z into another round of doing it tonight (he was soooo tired, but he responded pretty quickly, bless his heart). I still had some EWCM and a glaringly positive OPK, so I couldn't ignore it. Three nights in a row and dare I say, I am sick of sex! I know having sex tomorrow night as well would be ideal, but it's not possible due to conflicting schedules, so I think we'll aim for the following morning...36 hours from now. Then I can say that we've given it our level best this month.

yumyum

Jul 14 2009, 07:12 PM

zelda- I think I will try to get another sperm load tonight. That would be three nights in a row for us too. I want that fucking positive OPK. I feel my body had been giving me the signs signaling ovulation, so WTF? I think it is possible, maybe, that my pee has been too dilute. I test after work (usually around 4 or 5pm) and I probably don't ever hold it for 4 hours. When do you test?

zelda

Jul 14 2009, 07:30 PM

Hey yumyum...I still believe the EWCM is the best thing to see...even over a positive OPK...because it is that mucus that will keep the sperm alive for 3 (some say even 5!) days prior to ovulation. Last month we did it the day of the positive test and the next day, but I'd had no mucus that month that I was aware of. And I think that was a problem.

I try to test after work (when I am working...I'm a teacher and off all summer which is why I can afford to find the time to post every freaking minute!)...usually around 4 pm as well. I try to test around that time now, too. I have a teeny bladder and pee more than most people I know (which is maybe why I have never had a UTI), so I try to have a small drink around lunch then no liquids...usually by 4 pm I'm dying to pee and it's pretty dark.

Dilution could be a problem. One of the first months I tried to use OPKs, I used the digital kind with a smiley face with first morning urine and never got a positive read all month even though I had every sign that I had ovulated. Part of the problem was first morning urine (which I didn't know then you're not supposed to use), but part of it was the fact that I pee once or twice a night, and my first morning pee is practically water. So yeah, I'd say the tests can be screwed up! Trust your body and go with your gut and just try to get in sex as much as you can around now.

Hey Fookie...meant to say...I'm glad my note made you happy! I want you to keep that hope alive, lady!

I really wish we could do it tomorrow, too...but...okay, calm down, Ms. Zelda, you've loaded up quite a bit this month! Hopefully if I ovulate late tomorrow, doing it Thursday in the AM will be good enough. But hopefully I'll ovulate tonight or tomorrow morning and tonight's doin' it will be sufficient.

Michelina

Jul 14 2009, 07:37 PM

Julie, I think I forgot to say congrats on your baby boy news. So congrats! Having a boy will be so much fun. I'm so happy to hear that all went well with your ultrasound.

Cristine, like Zelda said, it is normal to have an odd cycle that is shorter or longer than the 21 - 35 "normal" range. I am pretty sure it would only be a problem if it is consistently longer than the 35 upper range. I second Zelda that it is a good idea to get a preconception check up, which I know you've tried. Good thing to find out now rather than later that it may not be the best clinic for you. On the other hand, like Ananke said, you can't determine how good the doctor is by the clerical staff. Have you heard from them yet?

Yumyum, I test around 5 too. I think anytime from late morning to early evening is okay. Do you drink much before? Try not to drink anything for a couple of hours prior to testing. I know how that feels when you have all the signs of fertility, and no OPK positive. It's like, just get here already!

The amount of ejaculate question is interesting. I definitely notice that it varies for Mr. M, but I don't think I have ever asked him about it.

Speaking of semen, he is going to the sperm clinic in 2 weeks. He has to go there into a "sample collection room." I asked about him taking a sample himself to the lab from home, but it is highly discouraged. I was told it would need to arrive in 15 minutes and needs to be at body temperature while in transit. I basically told him there is no option as it will take at least 15 minutes to get there, then a few to park, not to mention the temperature problem. How does one keep it at body temp anyway? I don't get it! The good news is that results are faxed to the referring doctor within 24 hours so we should know the following day. I hope we get them over the phone. If I know that result is out there, but I don't know the result, it will drive me crazy!

Michelina

Jul 14 2009, 07:40 PM

Oh and Zelda and Yumyum, sounds like it has been a fun and productive cycle. ;-) Here's hoping you get the sperm load you need!

zelda

Jul 14 2009, 07:46 PM

Michelina...I read that one way you can keep it body temp is to keep the cup o' jizz inside your pants or under your shirt during the drive there.

Interesting what they frown upon doing the deposit at home...knowing Mr. Z, I just do not think he would be able to perform at a doctor's office...erg. I wonder. The doctor's office I spoke with said as long as it got to them in under an hour, it would be okay. We live about 20 minutes away, so it wouldn't even be that long.

Well, I think I will encourage him to go for the SA while I'm gone...if it is a poor result, he can always try again at the doctor's.

ellenevenstar

Jul 15 2009, 01:21 AM

Hello! Thanks for sharing my excitement and reassuring me re: stress. Apart from my husband, you are the only people I've told. The little cramps have abated over the last two days so I'm feeling a bit better about things. As for other symptoms I've had quite a lot of creamy fluid and had some light nausea over the weekend and on Monday. My boobs are slightly tender but this is hardly noticeable, really. This seems amazing to me - in the 8 weeks of my last pregnancy my boobs were killing me and I was quite dizzy, but I had no nausea whatsoever.

I don't think I mentioned before, I just adopted a kitten 3 weeks ago and she has done wonders for my stress levels (as did school holidays - I'm a teacher too!). Little grey fluffball really took my mind off obsessing about conception this last cycle.

Zelda, I never thought I'd feel like I was sick of sex but I know what you mean! This month we did it on day 11, 13, 14, 15, 17, 18 (twice) and 20. LOADED UP!!! I think I ovulated on day 18/19. Last month I had to do a bit of coercing but this month my hubby said, 'I want to do whatever we need to to get pregnant.' Gotta love him.

yumyum, I have had trouble with UTIs for years and they're usually brought on by lots of sex. After sex, I have to make myself drink until I'm ready to burst and then pee a lot afterwards in order to ward them off. I tend to be very dutiful in this regard at the beginning of shag-fests, but as the days go on I get complacent and not worry about it so much. In fact, when we were ttc my last pregnancy I got a particularly nasty one (pink pee) right at the end of the fertile window. My mum was overseas at the time but then later, after she found out I was pregnant, she said I should be really careful not to get a UTI because she'd read about a link between UTIs and miscarriage rates and then she obviously felt incredibly bad about mentioning this when I told her it was basically the first thing that had happened in the life of that little blastocyst!!! I think you should go for it tonight and then pee, pee, pee to try and flush those bugs out. See how you go. Drink cranberry juice.

Julie124 Thanks heaps for that pearl of wisdom: 'hope doesn't make bad things happen'. I now have it on a post-it attached to my monitor at work. How exciting for you to know the life inside of you just that little bit better now!

Sorry I have no insight to offer on jizz.

Sounds like zelda and yumyum have done well this month. All the best to everyone. *thinking about datagirl heaps..... hope she's OK*

funnybird

Jul 15 2009, 03:03 AM

I feel like Iím stuck in limbo at the moment. Iím on day 32 of my cycle, 14 days past ovulation. I was expecting my temperature to drop yesterday but it hasnít, so I took a pregnancy test this morning and it was negative. This is the first month Iíve charted since the miscarriage, and I think my cycle has changed quite dramatically. Before I was pregnant I was ovulating quite late with a 12-day luteal phase. Now it seems like Iím ovulating earlier with a 14-days+ luteal phase. Which is good, I guess. But then I remember that I didnít test positive for ages last time, so thereís still a chance I could be pregnant Ė I wish Iíd bothering charting for the last two cycles, then Iíd have some idea about what was going on. I guess Iíll know by the end of the week.

It doesnít help that weíre also in housing-limbo. Weíve fallen for a great flat, but weíre waiting for the owner to decide how much rent heís going to charge. Architect Boy is convinced it will work out fine, but Iím scared that the owner will come out with some figure thatís way beyond our means, then weíll have to start looking all over again (and we have to be out of the current place by mid-August). Oh, the joys of tenancy! Combined, the two things make me feel like I have no control over my life at moment. And thereís still no damn referral letter!

Wow, what a long moan on a thread that otherwise seems full of hope and positive action. Sorry! Zelda and Yum yum, well done on the timing. I have my fingers crossed for you. Ellen, glad youíre feeling a little more relaxed. Have you seen a doctor yet?

Fookie

Jul 15 2009, 06:48 AM

Just wanted to jump in real quick and add to Ellen‚‚ā¨‚ĄĘs thanking of Julie for the 'hope doesn't make bad things happen'. It is my new mantra. I am definitely one of those people who convinces myself that the mere act of hoping is what will jinx everything. Despite this, in general I am an oddly optimistic person, but for things that I really want (baby, job, house etc.) I tend to think that the fewer people I share my hope with, the better the outcome will be. What a load of crap. I need to drop that.

ellenevenstar and Fookie, glad that thought helps. It helped me because I have a tendency to hang out in my head a lot, which when I'm worried that something bad might happen is a terrible place to be hanging out all the time. It doesn't totally prevent me from getting scared but it helps keep me from getting mired in it.

Oh yeah, and ellen, don't worry too much about the UTI...pregnant women are VERY prone to them, and the key is just to get it diagnosed and taken care of ASAP. The docs just want us to be careful about any kind of infection (which is why all the food prohibitions).

funnybird, I'm thinking of you! Hang in there, and just remember that plenty of full-term pregnancies don't test positive until much later...so even if your luteal phase is still at 12 days, day 14 might be too early to detect any HCG. I know the wait sucks, though, especially considering how things went last time.

Your mention of how out of control you feel on several fronts made me smile with recognition. If there is one thing pregnancy has taught me thus far, it is how very little control I actually have over things in life. I can do everything I can to make sure my little guy has the best opportunity possible to grow and be healthy, but at the end of the day it is out of my hands. Everything from whether I got pregnant or not, to the sex of the baby, to what kind of birth it turns out to be, to what kind of kid he is...I can do my best, but there will always be an element that is out of my control. It is scary as hell sometimes, but it also seems in a weird way to be the way things are supposed to be.

yumyum, definitely still go for it! If you're having UTI symptoms, just get it checked out as soon as you can, drink lots of water and cranberry juice (the pure stuff - not "cocktail" - is better, but cranberry juice cocktail will also work), avoid caffeine and alcohol (they can make it worse), and try to pee both before and after sex (so that any bacteria will stay out of your urethra). Oh yeah, and try to make sure you have plenty of lubrication for sex...sometimes the not-so-lubricated sex can irritate your urethra as well and make it more prone to infection.

zelda and yumyum, good luck! And zelda's right, at the end of the day your body is going to tell you more than the OPKs about when to get it on.

Michelina, all the best on the SA. I also have nothing at all to add about jizz. ;-)

datagirl, you're in our thoughts...as others have said, we support you no matter your decision and know you will decide what is best for you. Love and good thoughts to you.

zelda

Jul 15 2009, 09:17 AM

Fookie, I love your repetition of julie's mantra...perfect. I need to do the same thing!!!

Funnybird, I am crossing my fingers for you! The high temp is more exciting than anything else...a positive test may just come later. I know it must be stressful during this home-finding time...but I have no doubt that in a week, you'll have the answer to both questions. Argh! I hate that out of control feeling though.

Ellen...glad to hear you are feeling good...and happy news on the kitten! I am a huge animal lover. I'm also glad that you have this thread to come and "talk" since we and your husband are the only privileged few who know your happy news!

So now I am feeling out of control. Yesterday (CD 13) I had a positive OPK, and we had sex. We also had sex on days 11 and 12.

I took an OPK test this morning just to see, and it was still positive! Not darker than yesterday, but not lighter either.

Does this mean I haven't ovulated yet?

Mr. Z will not be home until late tonight, and I just don't think he's going to be in the mood. Will it matter if we wait until tomorrow morning and skip CD 14?

Erg...I'm confused. Also, I have much less mucus today. Help! Any advice?

Cristine

Jul 15 2009, 10:37 AM

Zelda & yumyum, I'm sending you both good vibes!!

Yumyum, I've never had a UTI but I too have had my share of yeast infections... I have a friend that always gets UTI's and she also hates drinking water, the one thing the doctor always told her was she NEEDS to start drinking more water. But like Ellen said, he'd also tell her to drink cranberry juice until the UTI is gone. So I don't know how your water consumption is but you may want to try and start to increase it. Anyway, I hope it's not too painful & goes away soon!

Michelina, I STILL have not heard back from the doctor's office! Can you believe that??? And about the semen, it really is just amazing the things couples start talking about once TTC!!!

Funnybird, I really hope you test positive soon! I know this waiting time sucks, especially after last time, but just hang in there!

Zelda, I really have no advice as I'm still learning & clearly haven't been successful myself... yet. But I'm going to try OPK this month and if it gives inaccurate readings I don't think I'll use that every month, because it just seems to create more added stress. So the only advice I can give you is your own... you know your body, trust your judgment!

funnybird

Jul 15 2009, 10:46 AM

Zelda and Julie, Iíve looked back over my diary for the last two months Ė where Iíve been keeping a rough record of my cycles (I guess itís just a habit by now!) Ė and I think that they have changed since my miscarriage, and a longer luteal phase is now the norm for me. Which is good, right? A few days extra for future embryos to get themselves well and truly implanted. So Iím most likely not pregnant, but thatís also probably for the best until my uterus has been medically approved for habitation. Iím going to call the hospital tomorrow to ask about my referral Ė Iím taking control!

Julieís mantra also applies to my housing situation. Admitting to myself I love the new flat and I want to live there will not necessarily result in us not being able to afford it!

Zelda, I know you hated temping, but itís the best way I know of to be sure youíve ovulated. Maybe you could dig the thermometer out for a couple of days, just until youíve seen a definite thermal shift so you know when to stop trying and give Mr. Z a break (joke!). Otherwise, if your egg-white so far has been good and sperm-friendly I donít see the harm in skipping a day.

Cristine, did you get hold of a copy of TCOYF yet?

Cristine

Jul 15 2009, 01:53 PM

Funnybird, my book will arrive tomorrow!

zelda

Jul 15 2009, 03:24 PM

Thanks for the advice, Busties...you're right...I don't think skipping today will matter...if we do it tomorrow in the AM. I am trying to remember my doctor saying every other day is just fine. And considering we did it late last night, I have to think even if I ovulate this evening, there is still sperm there ready to fertilize the egg...and even if there isn't, hopefully the egg will survive long enough to be fertilized tomorrow morning.

Argh! Don't you wish you could just look in there and see what's going on?

yumyum

Jul 15 2009, 08:26 PM

okay ladies, I just got home from class and have caught up on the posts. After posting yesterday, I drank 2 or 3 big glasses of cranberry juice (I have to mix the pure stuff with the cocktail) and I drank 2 or 3 glasses of water, and took a hot bath. I felt much better before going to bed and I don't have any sympoms today. The bad news is that we didn't do it last night. We were both exhausted and I wanted to give my body a chance to heal without irritating things any further, so no sperm load.

Ellen and Julie- I definately think that my UTIs are connected with having lots of sex- I'm also guilty of growing complacent about my maintenance (drinking cranberry juice everyday, taking probiotics, etc...).

I took another OPK today after work. I made a point of holding it for several hours but I still got a negative. I really think that I ovulated on Monday or yesterday. I feel pretty dry and have no discernable EWCM today. I miss temping- I think I will take my temp tomorrow morning to see if it is elevated. But just in case, I will see if Mr. Yum will do me the honors tonight. It would be really great if this was our month, just because I'm so sick of worrying about it.

zelda- I don't think skipping will matter. Look at all those people who just have sex when they feel like it and get pregnant. You've been doing everything "right" so try not to worry too much about missing tonight!

Michelina

Jul 16 2009, 06:46 AM

Yumyum, that is the nice thing about temping hey? Just confirms that it really is over. And if not, you can keep at it! Glad to hear that your UTI is clearing up.

Zelda, I know what you mean by just wishing you could see what is going on in there. I'd love to know what those sperm cells are doing in there if they're not fertilizing my egg! It sounds like you guys don't have anything to worry about even if you miss a day. Lots of sperm are probably just hanging out and waiting. As far as two positive OPK's, that hasn't happened to me. My guess is that it means ovulation hasn't happened yet if it's still positive. My understanding is that the LH spike happens, then the level decreases (but is still present), and then ovulation occurs.

Cristine, I forgot to tell you about my wierd cycles. I used to be super regular. 28 day cycles with hardly ever a day more or less, right up to about age 30. Then things got a slightly more irregular, but it was still about 27 to 30 days. Since trying to conceive, I have been less regular. OUr third month was the strangest. I ovulated on day 22 and got my period on day 33. I was very concerned after that cycle, particularly about my luteal phase. I have been ovulating usually on day 16 or 17 with an 11 or 12 day LP. So it's not horribly irregular, but definitely I've seen a change. I hope I don't have a repeat of that third cycle because it made me very anxious.

Funnybird, how are you doing? And Ellen, how are you feeling?

Fookie, I too have to repeat Julie's mantra to myself. It is very helpful. Thanks for that, Julie!

I am 8 dpo and am hoping.

eyelet

Jul 16 2009, 07:22 AM

Hello busties-I just wanted to drop in and say that things are going quite well here. With each passing day my mind and body have mended a little more from the pregnancy and birth. I'm no longer upset with my spouse...since his parents left and the baby has gotten a little older, he has been able to give both of us the attention I felt we deserved. He adores her, and it just took me a while to understand that guys respond much differently to tiny babies.

Elowen and I are getting out more, with the help of air conditioned cars, and I'm back to working afternoons while either my guy or my grandmother come by and sit with the baby. I'm so much happier now than I was 2 weeks ago.

The babe is growing like a weed. She's 24 inches and 10 lbs 13 oz. at 5 weeks old. She's so good natured and patient, but she also knows how to speak her mind when she needs something. I'm able to give her breastfeeding "snacks" throughout the day, although her primary nourishment is still formula. I got on a medication called Domperidone that is made for treating reflux, but has the side-effect of stimulating milk production. It has definitely helped, though not enough to give up formula.

My favorite thing is snuggling with her while we nap. She's so warm and cuddly. I guess it goes without saying that it was all worth it.

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