The INFJs experience a lot more 4-ness and would rater relish 1-style martyrdom, while the Ts (myself included) would rather take action with well-channelled anger/wrath (as long as it's productive and inconspicuous).

In retrospect, I think that's why I tested as an 8, the first time I took the test. The way I'd be in a perfect world would be like an 8 with 1 motivations.

Mind giving an example of the bold?

I actually like the 1's are like 8s in chains; it's a very concise way to describe how I am with my anger but I do feel a little that my chain is a bit longer than most 1s I've come across online. I've either integrated, or the effects of my instinctual subtype, or the 7 influence from my tri-type. Lol can't tell from this point and I've pretty much scratched out my potentially being an ID type. I've mistyped as 3w4 or 8w7 plenty of times in the past knowing for sure that those were not right. I am not at liberty for whatever damn reason to exert my deepest desires, though sometimes I wish I were.

For me I will only succumb to anger when I find it necessary. I see it nothing more than an adrenaline rush to get things done. The thing is, there's a lot of things to get done HAH! I suspect testing as an 8w7 has more to do with how I don't typically align myself with morals more than I do with my own personal integrity. I believe most moral systems are too confining and easily corruptible. Rules are made only to establish control/order and not necessarily a means to establish what is right or inspire genuine understanding.

But then I realized what made me a 1 is my strict adherence to my personal conduct of what is right/wrong through objectivity. It's how I've been able to stay 'blameless' and what I believe has produced the most effective results when confronted with an obstacle.

Originally Posted by Elfboy

PS: we have the same tritype

Let's cheers with some 12 year old(+) scotch/whiskey--- that's more my style ;P

My mom, who I am very close to, is an INFJ 1w2, so I wrote that with a lot of experience in mind. The primary one -- a drama that has played out for over a decade -- relates to her attempts to get tenure at the university where she's currently an assistant professor. I grew up with her regularly ranting to me and my dad about who she blames for her work predicament: the demonic man who was department chair when she was hired, the apathetic and cowardly professors who already have tenure and don't want to get into department politics if they don't have to, and the professors with undergrad- or masters-degrees who are jealous of the fact that my mother has a doctorate. The point is always that my mother is the victim, the world is against her, poor poor her. Never once was there ever a question of what she could do about it. I would ask, and she would just say "nothing", and my dad -- who is either a 5w6 or 6w5 and therefore is also quick to embrace those sorts of theories -- wouldn't give me any more information. So I ended up having to put together the real truth for myself: that there had been an opportunity, a decade ago, for her to have gotten tenure, but it would have involved getting herself into a conflict where there was a 50/50 chance of her either getting tenure or getting fired, and due to being conflict-avoidant, she let the department walk all over her. Now instead of being hyper-driven towards doing whatever needs to be done to get tenure, instead of approaching the issue like a righteous warrior -- which is probably how an aggressive STJ 1w2 would have approached it (i.e. driven to action by anger) -- her conflict-avoidance won out in the end, so her anger became channeled in more of a 4 way.

I actually like the 1's are like 8s in chains; it's a very concise way to describe how I am with my anger but I do feel a little that my chain is a bit longer than most 1s I've come across online. I've either integrated, or the effects of my instinctual subtype, or the 7 influence from my tri-type. Lol can't tell from this point and I've pretty much scratched out my potentially being an ID type. I've mistyped as 3w4 or 8w7 plenty of times in the past knowing for sure that those were not right.

That makes sense. I'm similar in that regard and I think that's why I always mistyped as an 8, when I took the test.

I am not at liberty for whatever damn reason to exert my deepest desires, though sometimes I wish I were.

Could you elaborate a little bit on what you mean by this? (Unless it's too personal, in which case I respect your privacy.)

For me I will only succumb to anger when I find it necessary. I see it nothing more than an adrenaline rush to get things done. The thing is, there's a lot of things to get done HAH!

I relate to this a lot, too.

I suspect testing as an 8w7 has more to do with how I don't typically align myself with morals more than I do with my own personal integrity. I believe most moral systems are too confining and easily corruptible. Rules are made only to establish control/order and not necessarily a means to establish what is right or inspire genuine understanding.

But then I realized what made me a 1 is my strict adherence to my personal conduct of what is right/wrong through objectivity. It's how I've been able to stay 'blameless' and what I believe has produced the most effective results when confronted with an obstacle.

Very interesting!! Thanks for posting this.

EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"

Let's cheers with some 12 year old(+) scotch/whiskey--- that's more my style ;P

I was going to say some Italian Porte or Oozo, but that definitely works too (fuck low quality alcohol, I don't drink at all currently because I can't afford anything quality LOL)

ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
ENFP
5w4>1w9>2w1 Sx/Sp
SEE-Fi
Papa Bear
Motivation: Dark Worker
Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
Chibi Seme
MTG Color: black/red
Male Archtype: King/LoverSunburst! "You are a gay version of Gambit" Speed Gavroche"I wish that I could be affected by any hate, but I can't, cuz I just get affected by the bank" Chamillionaire

@EJCC, thanks for sharing. It's definitely interesting and will probably poke around with the differences sometime in the future in a different thread examining the topic.

Hmm...are you by any chance aware of your integration/disintegration patterns? For me, the example you gave of your mother would only happen should I ever feel that everything is lost. I've only hit this point once in my life it lasted about 2 weeks. I remember willfully forcing my body out of it through excessive running and fasting LOL. I wanted to feel the Earth below my feet and the soreness of my muscles so that I knew that my body was still there. It was as though I was using pain and hunger to prove my presence, and if I was still present in my own body then all cannot be lost. Perhaps this is more of a 1w9 reaction(?); conflict between superego-ego. This too is a type of anger I recognize. Anger that forces my body to submit to me (if that makes sense).

However, during times of slightly more than average stress, I normally utilize defense mechanisms more in line with type 7. For instance, I'll drink an extra shot or two, three, four. Toy around with men, splurge on materials and become incredibly arrogant. Of course, once I snap out of it I feel a sense of remorse which I forcibly shake off to fix the damage(s) that I've done.

Could you elaborate a little bit on what you mean by this? (Unless it's too personal, in which case I respect your privacy.)

I'm talking about the things I've put off because what I'm currently focused on is more important. For instance, I've always wanted to own several venues to showcase contemporary street artist work in multiple urban hot spots around the world. It's a lifestyle I've always been drawn to because it was one that I could not have when I was a kid. I go to art showings to suppress that want lol. I've decided to complete that goal closer to retirement age or sooner depending on how fast I can finish my milestones in my career/life. Things like that hahaha. There are also other things but those, I'll keep to myself.
@Elfboy, should we ever meet in person, I'll buy you drink.

@EJCC, thanks for sharing. It's definitely interesting and will probably poke around with the differences sometime in the future in a different thread examining the topic.

Cool -- I look forward to reading it and posting in it.

Hmm...are you by any chance aware of your integration/disintegration patterns? For me, the example you gave of your mother would only happen should I ever feel that everything is lost. I've only hit this point once in my life it lasted about 2 weeks. I remember willfully forcing my body out of it through excessive running and fasting LOL. I wanted to feel the Earth below my feet and the soreness of my muscles so that I knew that my body was still there. It was as though I was using pain and hunger to prove my presence, and if I was still present in my own body then all cannot be lost. Perhaps this is more of a 1w9 reaction(?); conflict between superego-ego. This too is a type of anger I recognize. Anger that forces my body to submit to me (if that makes sense).

I wonder if some of that is Se, in addition to the 9 wing; the bolded is a thought process that I can't remember ever experiencing. The out-of-body aspect sounds 9-ish, from what little I know about Nines.

I'm not sure how much I know about disintegration patterns (besides the obvious "1 goes to 4 under stress", which I relate to), but I'll try to describe my case/process in more detail, without Enneagram terms, and maybe you'll see Enneagram types in it.

The thought process with mild stress is usually "Whatever, it'll be fine. I'll solve it like I always do." The more stress there is, the more evasive I'll become, and the more I'll have the gut reaction of letting the thing be and hoping it will solve itself. The longer that goes on, the more stressed I get, and the more I sink into guilt; it's usually from my guilt-stress moments that my closer friends realize that under the chill and confident outside is an extremely self-critical inside. (Common example: Giving myself a potential "carrot" for studying, in the form of a TV show at the end of the day, then avoiding doing homework for several hours, not being able to get it all done, and subsequently not watching the TV as a form of self-discipline and self-punishment. That tendency freaked out my 1w9 roommate a bit; I typed her as 1w9 because she doesn't do the guilt thing like I do.)

Then, if the stress gets even more severe than that, I get increasingly self-critical and angry at my shortcomings, taking the route of blaming myself instead of blaming others (which is one reason why I don't fit the 1w2 stereotype that well), and then the anger implodes. By that, I mean that it'll blow itself up out of me somehow (e.g. a guilt-ridden rant, or a very brief/subtle physical expression of anger), and then it will ball itself up into me and sit in the very core of my being. Me at my most low is me at that point: completely self-contained, trapped in my core and mostly unwilling to act on the outside. I get lethargic and quiet and not very physically expressive. (I tend to call this my INFP shadow coming out, but it might be something else.) Most of my energy will be focused on that ball of emotion in my core; I try and feel it out, deduce what it's made of, where it's knotted, so maybe I can untangle it, unroll it, and bring myself back to normal again.

Every type 1 I know (myself included) has gotten the wrong result on an Enneagram test and then mistyped for an extended period of time. I thought I was a type 6 for several months, and my type 1 roommate spent a while thinking she was a type 5.

I blame this on really, really bad descriptions of type 1, online. I initially ruled out being a One because of

1) the focus on "morality"*, which I don't relate to at all;
2) the idea that we are defined by "resentment"*, which I am not; and
3) the idea that our greatest fear is "corruption"*, which I am not all that afraid of.

There is no doubt in my mind that I'm a One. I may be one of the best examples of type 1w2 on the forum! And yet I don't relate to the basic tenants of the type??

Any thoughts from other type Ones on this? Or from people who know Ones pretty well? Is this a problem with most Enneagram descriptions, and I just didn't notice? Insert ideas/thoughts/bitching here.

* In order for the descriptions to represent me, I would replace the quoted words/phrases with, respectively, "fairness", "repression", and "hypocrisy". This may seem like small changes, but they make a pretty huge difference!

I will resurrect this.

The only types I ever tested as are 5 and 8, however 1 was always somewhere there in 2nd or 3rd place.

5 is probably because of "technical expert tritype" and general social alienation while 8 is probably because of anger/drive and 3 fix. I can do the "8 thing" without any problems but the inner world of 8 doesn't match that well what I have in me.

I totally agree that profiles are overdoing the purity thing in e1 to the point that they are alienating people of this type. Many e1 profiles sound more like a So 3 or 6 that are heavily into conservative stuff since they want to fit in. Not to mention that this puritism has a pretty clear American feeling to it and none American may reject the type profiles by default. I have visualized it this way: e1 is the person that has strong judgement and wants to do something useful with it. Everything else are just your values and your culture.

Btw I don't think that corruption here should be taken too much at face value. It is more like: keeping your promises, keeping your places generally clean, avoiding any kind of substance abuse or being fat, preventing things from going down the hill when that is possble, not lying even when that would be pragmatic and of course making sure that others around don't go too far from any of the listed. Since otherwise the whole collective is coming under question and may collapse under its own idiotisms/flaws because of this. You would be surprised how many people don't believe in any of that.

When I take enneagram tests, and good ones, I will come out as a 1w2. I think the core reason is I have a huge perfectionistic streak, and if the test is geared to that, it will come out. If it doesn't I'll probably test as an 8, and occasionally 3 or 6.

As far as relating to 1 descriptions, I have only ever partially related. In my case, mostly because of the anger bits. For many years I was blind to my own anger, and I didn't consider myself to be an angry person. Largely because my definition of anger was essentially summarized as someone in the kitchen screaming and throwing dishes out the window. I don't do that. Lower level stuff to me was "irritated" or "ticked" or "miffed". Turns out that all of that stuff essentially is anger, and I am in a near constant state of that, and I do instinctively keep it in. Being an ENFJ complicates this because I want to let that stuff OUT, but an equal but opposite of me says "you must keep it in because it's the appropriate/right thing to do", and man does it eat at me like no ones business. It's difficult to say at this point how much.

I also have never liked the headline fear of being corrupt/evil. I have never really related to that. When someone says that to me it reads like "I fear I will suddenly lose my morals and become a terrible person". Like, yeah no that's never going to happen. I have however had moments in my life where I thought to myself "my wiring as a person means I am a fundementally horrible person" which was AWFUL and made me feel like there was no point to living or existing. I don't actively fear that though. It seems silly. It's honestly kind of hard for me to pin down what my biggest fears are (aside from disease which is not applicable in the theory). In the context of being a 1, my biggest "negative" drive is to be a good virtuous person because if I don't I am wrong, unworthy of good, and it's just a thing I can't go against. It's simply a fundemenal. I suppose it means I fear being corrupt/evil? It's not so much a fear as it is a "I can't do that, it's just not ok".

@Virtual ghost, your bold is pretty accurate to me. 1's have very strong judgements, trust them and think them to be right, and they want to do something with it. If for some reason they can't, they get quite angry. 1's are really practically driven.

When I take enneagram tests, and good ones, I will come out as a 1w2. I think the core reason is I have a huge perfectionistic streak, and if the test is geared to that, it will come out. If it doesn't I'll probably test as an 8, and occasionally 3 or 6.

As far as relating to 1 descriptions, I have only ever partially related. In my case, mostly because of the anger bits. For many years I was blind to my own anger, and I didn't consider myself to be an angry person. Largely because my definition of anger was essentially summarized as someone in the kitchen screaming and throwing dishes out the window. I don't do that. Lower level stuff to me was "irritated" or "ticked" or "miffed". Turns out that all of that stuff essentially is anger, and I am in a near constant state of that, and I do instinctively keep it in. Being an ENFJ complicates this because I want to let that stuff OUT, but an equal but opposite of me says "you must keep it in because it's the appropriate/right thing to do", and man does it eat at me like no ones business. It's difficult to say at this point how much.

I also have never liked the headline fear of being corrupt/evil. I have never really related to that. When someone says that to me it reads like "I fear I will suddenly lose my morals and become a terrible person". Like, yeah no that's never going to happen. I have however had moments in my life where I thought to myself "my wiring as a person means I am a fundementally horrible person" which was AWFUL and made me feel like there was no point to living or existing. I don't actively fear that though. It seems silly. It's honestly kind of hard for me to pin down what my biggest fears are (aside from disease which is not applicable in the theory). In the context of being a 1, my biggest "negative" drive is to be a good virtuous person because if I don't I am wrong, unworthy of good, and it's just a thing I can't go against. It's simply a fundemenal. I suppose it means I fear being corrupt/evil? It's not so much a fear as it is a "I can't do that, it's just not ok".

@Virtual ghost, your bold is pretty accurate to me. 1's have very strong judgements, trust them and think them to be right, and they want to do something with it. If for some reason they can't, they get quite angry. 1's are really practically driven.

To finally answer.

The bolded part sounds very true for me as well. I am pretty composed person and I would not say that my world revolves around anger/frustaration. But then klicker kicks in: why is everybody so defensive, why generally I am the one that calls the shots, why I started playing shooting games at the age of five, what kind of a "rogue intellectual" scores as hardcore J, I don't know how many times I did an override of other people's decisions or I was saving the day, why my parents mock me with phrases like "holy father" and similar to that, why concrete results and physical activity calm me down ... and then you come to the conclussion that you see yourself in a wrong way ... and all of that simply because of "conservative stuff" in profiles.

Regarding corrution: I think you would perhaps be surprised by the amout of people who have no moral compass and don't care about that. In the case you didn't interacted with such people much that may simply inducate that you live in generally healthy environment that is stabile for the most part.