Do you think all problems went away if you made a parking lot out of Israel? if so why don't USA do it, they sure have the capability.

Who do you think gave the order to have Collin Powell give the speech 2003 in UN about WMD? Why do you think it worked? Why do you think Obama is President?

The real players knows exactly what they are doing.

QuackD.Duck

Edit: Who do you think did the lobby for the Obama to get The Nobel Peace Prize? the yoooos? Why do you think Obama got the Prize and at the same time saying "we will send 20.000 more troops" and no one took the Prize away from the guy? cos he is protected by the yoooos?

Both the U.S. and Israel have nuclear weapons so either could pull the plug on either hypothetically if they wanted to. However Israel has attacked the U.S. several times, once admittedly in 1967 when they tried to sink the USS Liberty after they felt that the navy was out of line surveilling them and documenting their war crimes in the '6 day war'. And they got away with it with no retaliation from the U.S. government. The U.S. has never attacked Israel. Also here's a quote relevent to recent events in the U.S./Israeli relationship:

“The Government of Israel has insulted the Vice President of the United States, and spat in the face of the President ? they wiped the spit off their faces and smiled politely ? as the saying goes: when you spit in the face of a weakling, he pretends that it is raining”Uri Avnery Israeli Jewish journalist 13/3/2010.

Got it from this enlightening article from James Petras: The Major Jewish American Organizations Defend Israel’s Humiliation of America

More quotes illustrating it:

"I've never seen a president -- I don't care who he is --stand up to them [the Israelis]. It just boggles your mind.They always get what they want. The Israelis know what'sgoing on all the time. I got to the point where I wasn'twriting anything down. If the American people understoodwhat grip those people have on our government, they wouldrise up in arms. Our citizens don't have any idea what goeson."

"I am aware how almost impossible it is in this country tocarry out a foreign policy [in the Middle East] not approvedby the Jews. Former Secretary of State George Marshall andformer Defense Secretary James Forrestral learned that . . .terrific control the Jews have over the news media and thebarrage the Jews have built up on congressmen . . . I amvery much concerned over the fact that the Jewish influencehere is completely dominating the scene and making it almostimpossible to get congress to do anything they don't approveof. The Israeli embassy is practically dictating to thecongress through influential Jewish people in the country"

NOTE: There are hundreds of statements in the links provided below. It would be amazing if there were no errors of any kind in such a large collection of information. If you note any significant errors, please send me a message quotingthe erroneous part and a brief statement of the correct information,preferably with reference citations. (stolen from McCob)

You never want a serious crisis to go to waste. ... This crisis provides the opportunity for us to do things that you could not before.

- Rahm Emanuel in an Interview to the Wall Street Journal, November 19, 2008

On the FBI’s official website, there exists a chronological list of all terrorist attacks committed on U.S. soil from the year 1980 all the way to 2005. It shows Jews being guilty of 7% of the terrorist acts perpetrated in that period, while Muslims only make up 6%. http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/01/not-al ... e-muslims/ (This of course counts 9/11, 7/7, Bali and Madrid as "Muslim terrorist acts" so the actual number is WAY smaller with regards to Muslims.

Of a total of 502 offices of first rank in the organisation and direction of the Communist revolution in Russia and in the direction of the Soviet State during the first years of its existence, no less than 459 posts are occupied by Jews, while only 43 of these offices have been occupied by Gentiles of different origin.

The idea of accumulating all the money in the world through Communism appears in all transparency with many famous Jewish writers like Edmond Fleg, Barbusse, Andre Spire and others; in particular most expressly in the well-known letter that the famous new Messianer Baruch Levy sent to Karl Marx, which was discovered in the year 1888 and published for the first time in the same year. The text is as follows:

The Jewish people as a whole is its own Messiah. Its kingdom over the universe is obtained through the uniting of the other human races, through the suppression of frontiers and of monarchies, which are bulwarks for particularism and hinder the erection of a world republic where citizenship is everywhere recognised to the Jew. In this new organisation of mankind, the sons of Israel, who at present are scattered over the entire earth surface, will all be of the same race and of the same traditional culture, without, however, forming another nationality, and will be without contradiction the leading element in all parts, particularly if it is successful in laying upon the masses of workers a permanent leadership by some Jews. The governments of peoples all pass with the formation of the universal republic effortlessly into the hands of the Israelites in favour of the victory of the proletariat. Then the personal property of the rulers will be able to be suppressed by the rulers of the Jewish race who will everywhere govern over the property of the Peoples. Then the promise of the Talmud will be fulfilled, that when the time of the Messiah has come, the Jews will have the goods of all peoples of the world in their possession.

During the ensuing Great Terror, whichincluded the notorious show trials of Stalin's former Bolshevikopponents in 1936-1938 and reached its peak in 1937 and 1938,millions of innocent Soviet citizens were sent off to labor campsor killed in prison.

By the time the terror subsided in 1939, Stalin had managedto bring both the party and the public to a state of completesubmission to his rule. Soviet society was so atomized and thepeople so fearful of reprisals that mass arrests were no longernecessary. Stalin ruled as absolute dictator of the Soviet Unionthroughout World War II and until his death in March 1953.

The purpose of Communism is, as we have indeed seen in Russia and in the other lands where it has been introduced, none other than to enslave the people in the economic, political, social, human and super-human sense, in order to make possible a minority rule through violence. From an international aspect, the goal cannot be clearer:

“To attain through violence world domination by an insignificant minority, which destroys the rest of humanity by means of materialism, terror and, if necessary, by death, completely indifferent to whether in the process the enormous majority of the population must be murdered."

If you trace up Masonry, through all its Orders, till you come to the grand tip-top head Mason of the World, you will discover that the dread individual and the Chief of the Society of Jesus [i.e., the Superior General of the Jesuit Order] are one and the same person.

- James Parton (American historian)

The Jesuit Order was formed around the same time as the Reformation. Did the Jesuits create Freemasonry as a tool to infiltrate the protestant Church?

On the Jews and Their Lies (German: Von den J?den und iren L?gen; in modern spelling Von den Juden und ihren L?gen) is a 65,000-word treatise written by German Reformation leader Martin Luther in 1543.

In the treatise, Luther writes that the Jews are a "base, whoring people, that is, no people of God, and their boast of lineage, circumcision, and law must be accounted as filth." Luther wrote that they are "full of the devil's feces ... which they wallow in like swine," and the synagogue is an "incorrigible whore and an evil slut".

Ignatius Loyola came from a Noble Spanish Family. He was part of a secret society called "Illumbrado". When he created his society with the purpose of reclaiming Jerusalem from The Muslims, he wanted to call it "Illuminati" but was denied(by who?). He then changed the name to Society of Jesus, and created the Order in 1537. It is interesting to ... notice that The Spanish King carries the Title, "King of Jerusalem".

In 1540 they were adopted into the Church, and in 1815 the Jesuit General was granted universal jurisdiction over the Society.

- Thomas Boisen

What do Fidel Castro, three founding members of the Jesuit order, Saint Teresa of Avila and Cardinal Jean Marie Lustiger of Paris have in common with Secretary of State Madeleine Albright?

In addition, he argues that the Jews were never exiled from the Holy Land, that most of today’s Jews have no historical connection to the land called Israel and that the only political solution to the country’s conflict with the Palestinians is to abolish the Jewish state.

According to Sand, the description of the Jews as a wandering and self-isolating nation of exiles, "who wandered across seas and continents, reached the ends of the earth and finally, with the advent of Zionism, made a U-turn and returned en masse to their orphaned homeland," is nothing but "national mythology.

There's no good jew or bad jew just no jew, the lie that the ancient isralis are here among us is the central problem. If a group can create historical fact as it pleases then and make religion out of whole cloth to justify mass murder and land theft we have problem we have, solution is talking the truth and not using false terms in any discussion.

- Rafael Ontiveros, April 2010.

Point being, the criminals posing as Jews are no more Jews than you and me. They follow the anti-human teachings of the Talmud, such as:

What's interesting is how Messianic Jews are persecuted by their fellow Jews. Messianic Jews believe, just like Christians and Muslims, that Jesus was Messiah, in stark contradiction to the Talmudic Jews who still await their Messiah. Considering this fact, many Muslims and Christians consider the Jewish Messiah as their Anti-Christ.

Geniocracy,” the 1st English edition of Rael's classic work, allows a new generation to consider an ingenious worldwide solution to man’s biggest problems: war, hunger, poverty and the exploitation of genius under “mediocracies” backed by military might. The solution, says the author, is geniocracy: collegial government by geniuses elected under a selective democracy. Such a system ? revolutionary but truly just ? would work for the good of all rather than just a privileged few, Rael explains. After illustrating how geniocracy would work on various levels, he asks us to consider how scientific advances under collegial government by geniuses ? geniocracy ? would create a better world: one in which every person would be entitled not only to basic necessities of life but to an existence in which “the right to work would be replaced by the right to self-fulfillment.

"is a non-profit organization that fundraises for and supports Jewish organizations, agencies, programs and services -- locally, in Israel and around the world. Here in the Bay Area, our local community includes San Francisco, Marin and Sonoma Counties and the Peninsula.

"Because money for Israel originates in Senate and House foreign affairs committees, AIPAC has long ago insured that each and every member of these committees is unconditionally loyal to Israel. Beyond this, AIPAC insures that every other member of Congress consistently votes and speaks out for Israel; that AIPAC's candidate is selected for every "interesting" assignment. In 1983, Secretary of State George Schultz appointed the head of AIPAC himself, Thomas A. Dine, to a blue ribbon panel of prominent citizens to recommend changes in the foreign aid program. Dine was the only lobbyist on this panel composed of 27 Senators and Representatives, a fact that made Senator James Abourezk remark "It would make as much sense to let the president of Lockheed Corporation serve on a Defense Department board which decides what planes our air force will buy" (Paul Findley, pp. 31). ? Michael Poulin, The Lobby, June 1989.

One of The Jewish Community Federations directors is Laurence Moskowitz.

He is the President, Chief Executive and Chairman of the Board of Medialink Worldwide. Moskowitz owns over 551,089 Medialink shares, representing 8.88% of the company stock.

Moskowitz is a graduate of the Journalism School at Pennsylvania State University and was a professor of investigative journalism at Temple University. Moskowitz worked as a reporter and editor at United Press International and later as a foreign correspondent. In 1986 he founded Medialink.

His biographical note states that "soon after Medialink's inception, he worked closely with the Radio-Television News Directors Association to establish a code of ethics based on full disclosure relating to the production and distribution of VNRs and other broadcast publicity tools"

Video news releases or VNRs (also referred to as fake TV news) are segments designed to be indistinguishable from independently-produced news reports that are distributed and promoted to television newsrooms. TV stations incorporate VNRs into their newscasts, rarely alerting viewers to the source of the footage. While government-funded VNRs have been most controversial, most VNRs are paid for by corporations; non-governmental organizations also put out VNRs.

As for the best strategy for the industry, Moskowitz was determined that any concessions in increased identification in VNR's should be confined only to government funded VNR's. "Let's remember this debate, from everything I've seen, read, heard, and talked to, is purely the government ... And I'm glad the story is kind of focused there, because I would hate to see it broaden," he said.

Medialink Worldwide (commonly referred to as Medialink) states on its website that it helps "professional communicators and the media engage their intended audiences with compelling video and audio distributed via the Web, television and radio."[1] In July 2009, the broadcast public relations firm The NewsMarket announced that it was purchasing Medialink. [2]

An earlier version of the company's website described the company as "a global leader in corporate media communications services," connecting corporate clients with news industry producers.Medialink boasts proprietary databases used in audience research, while a partnership with the Associated Press puts the news releases of Medialink clients on the desks of most United States' television news editors. Medialink claims credit for having pioneered the video news release.

"By leveraging relationships with news organizations, Medialink rapidly alerts and disseminates clients' news to every major newsroom in the United States. Similarly, international distribution relationships enable Medialink to reach virtually any audience, in any country, through any news medium. Each year, Medialink generates tens of thousands of broadcast news airings worldwide reaching billions of viewers, listeners and readers on media as diverse as CNN, The New York Times, ABC, Sky News, The Washington Post, BBC, Bloomberg Radio, AOL, Yahoo! and China Central Television, the national television station of the People's Republic of China," Medialink stated in its 2003 annual report.

Medialink makes no pretense that it is neutral when it comes to helping its clients. "Whether a situation calls for expert counsel during a high-profile litigation crisis or an ongoing campaign to introduce a new consumer product or defeat proposed legislation, Medialink is an integral member of the client’s strategy team".

Radio-Television News Directors Association (RTNDA) is "made up of more than 3,000 news directors, news associates, educators and students. Founded as a grassroots organization in 1946, its purpose was to set standards of news gathering and reporting."

:rolleyes:

In an April 2005 interview RTNDA President Barbara Cochran argued against mandatory on-screen identification of video news releases so the viewer was informed of the origin of the material. While acknowledging that VNR material "is now flooding into stations from all different directions" she downplayed the extent of its use. "I don't think we really know how prevalent that [use of VNRs] is," she said.

Concrete data on VNR use is hard to come by, she said. " It's kind of like the Loch Ness Monster. Everyone talks about it, but not many people have actually seen it," Ms. Cochran said.

:angry:

In response to the revelations in the Center for Media and Democracy report the Federal Communications Commission began an investigation into the use of VNR's by 77 television stations. In October 2006 the RTNDA wrote to the FCC urging the investigation be terminated and the letters to the 77 stations rescinded. (!)

Barbara Cochran

Before joining RTNDA/F, she held the following positions: Vice president and Washington bureau chief, CBS News; Executive producer, NBC's Meet the Press; Vice president of news, National Public Radio; and, Managing editor, Washington Star. ... Cochran is a founding board member of the International Women's Media Foundation and serves on the National Advisory Board of the Poynter Institute, the Board of Visitors of the University of Maryland College of Journalism, the Advisory Committee of the Newseum, and the Accrediting Council for Education in Journalism and Mass Communication. She is a juror for the DuPont-Columbia Awards and the Peabody Awards. ... She and her husband John Cochran, senior correspondent for ABC News, live in Washington."

In addition to being the chief executive officer of the Jewish Community Federation, Thomas A. Dine is working with "Committee for the Liberation of Iraq" with his friends...

* Randy Scheunemann, CLI's executive director, is former chief national-security adviser to U.S. Senator Trent Lott who has also worked for Donald H. Rumsfeld as a consultant on Iraq policy. While working for Lott in 1998, Scheunemann drafted the "Iraq Liberation Act" that authorized 98 million for the Iraqi National Congress. Randy is currently John McCain's top foreign policy adviser. * Mahdi Al-Bassam, Iraq Liberation Action Committee * Carl Bildt, former Prime Minister of Sweden, and current Minister for Foreign Affairs (Sweden)[1] * Barry Blechman, DFI International, a company that offers "tailored research, analysis, knowledge management, and consulting services to senior decision-makers in industry and government. Our Corporate Services Group supports clients in the defense, aerospace, telecommunications, and high-tech industries. DFI Government Services assists US government leaders in the development and implementation of national security programs and policies."[2] * Eliot Cohen, Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies * Thomas A. Dine, Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty * General Wayne Downing, U.S. Army (retired), has been a lobbyist for the Iraqi National Congress, the CIA-bankrolled opposition to Saddam Hussein * Rend Rahim Francke, Iraq Foundation * Newt Gingrich, former Speaker of the U.S. House of Representatives * Lt. General Buster Glosson, U.S. Air Force (retired) * James R. Hoffa, Jr., International Brotherhood of Teamsters * Bruce P. Jackson, chairman, is the former vice president of weapons contractor Lockheed Martin. He also chaired the Republican Party Platform's subcommittee for National Security and Foreign Policy when George W. Bush ran for president in 2000. * Howell Jackson, Professor of Law, Harvard Law School * B Kerrey, former Democratic U.S. Senator * Jeane J. Kirkpatrick, American Enterprise Institute * William Kristol, editor of the Weekly Standard * Bernard Lewis, Princeton University * General Barry McCaffrey, U.S. Army (retired); former U.S. "drug czar" * John McCain, U.S. Senator * Will Marshall, Progressive Policy Institute * Richard N. Perle, former Assistant Secretary of Defense * Danielle Pletka, American Enterprise Institute * Gary Schmitt is executive director of the Project for the New American Century * George P. Shultz, former U.S. secretary of state under Ronald Reagan * Richard Shultz, The Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy * Stephen Solarz, former Member of Congress * Ruth Wedgwood, Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies * Leon Wieseltier, The New Republic * Chris Williams, Johnston and Associates * R. James Woolsey, Jr., former CIA Director

This is bullshit. Now we're a forum about how Abrahamic Jews simply vanished to be replaced by 8th century Khazar converts?

According to Mosaic law a convert is a Jew in every respect. So that's a non-starter.

And in any case, who f#cking cares? What does any of this have to do with the purpose of this forum? Nothing.

It would be far more preferable to examine fraudulent Holocaust claims and associated war propaganda than to descend into the disgusting rhetoric of "if you're Jewish you're evil."

Somebody dropped the epithet of "kike" in a recent posting. Big fail. I decided to let somebody else object - and nobody did. That sort of anti-human speech is from the enemy playbook. Why don't we have a thread for every state on the planet listing all infractions? Is it because everybody else does nothing but good?

Somebody dropped the epithet of "kike" in a recent posting. Big fail. I decided to let somebody else object - and nobody did. That sort of anti-human speech is from the enemy playbook. Why don't we have a thread for every state on the planet listing all infractions? Is it because everybody else does nothing but good?

Well made, oz.

The derogatory language between strangers does little but incite the mistrustful hate that the media world itself is meant to impose. Even if one fake event is meant to pit Muslims against Christians, it doesn't make it okay for them to team up over put-downs of Jews. Negative prejudice is negative prejudice. I appreciate when people point it out, when they are genuinely offended.

I was hoping by labeling this 'Israel' it might actually lead to a discussion of Israeli policies and hypocrisies. How naive of me. If this thread doesn't improve in sophistication rather than recycling the many anti-Israel sites out there, it is probably worth deleting altogether. Although if someone wants to make an argument for something they've posted being important, it would be nice to hear the whole story rather than the snippets that make up this thread so far.

Well, let me go backwards a bit here. I do read all this sort of information myself. I'm pretty wide ranging, it's all knowledge, it all goes in the masher, it's all part of the education. And it often comes via some simply "anti-Jewish" conduits.

Which is even understandable if your worldview is constructed around a Jewish world domination conspiracy. The enemy is demonized. And who can deny Jewish and Israeli influence? The cross-currents between Jews, wherever they are situated, and Israel?

But as Hoi sort of said, do we really need another recitation, another cut and paste mirror list of Jews with important jobs who know other Jews with important jobs who together make agreements that benefit each other and probably something overarching? Maybe.

But there's something telescopic to the point of total peripheral blindness about it. This is a forum unlike others, it's unique in its approach to "reality." We're concerned with original research and not trotting out the old cows for a parade.

And for the love of Moses drop the "joos" and "kikes" pejoratives. Not only is it just plain stupid and annoying but even the neo-Nazis can muster that much false propriety for the sake of their message. Don't you guys know any regular f#cking Jews?

ozzybinoswald @ Apr 20 2010, 07:07 PM wrote: Well, let me go backwards a bit here. I do read all this sort of information myself. I'm pretty wide ranging, it's all knowledge, it all goes in the masher, it's all part of the education. And it often comes via some simply "anti-Jewish" conduits.

Which is even understandable if your worldview is constructed around a Jewish world domination conspiracy. The enemy is demonized. And who can deny Jewish and Israeli influence? The cross-currents between Jews, wherever they are situated, and Israel?

But as Hoi sort of said, do we really need another recitation, another cut and paste mirror list of Jews with important jobs who know other Jews with important jobs who together make agreements that benefit each other and probably something overarching? Maybe.

But there's something telescopic to the point of total peripheral blindness about it. This is a forum unlike others, it's unique in its approach to "reality." We're concerned with original research and not trotting out the old cows for a parade.

And for the love of Moses drop the "joos" and "kikes" pejoratives. Not only is it just plain stupid and annoying but even the neo-Nazis can muster that much false propriety for the sake of their message. Don't you guys know any regular f#cking Jews?

The whole emotional belief construct of the Jewish psyops, which has been driven into the psyche of those on any side of the psyops issue, seems to me much like the psyops that has been fed to the world, especially U.S. citizens, that the U.S.A. is a righteous and god-blessed beacon on the hill of democracy, decency, and 200% giving of compassionate guidance to the whole world of suffering and confused barbarians.

"It's not a matter of what is true that counts but a matter of what is perceived to be true." - Henry Kissinger

This is all from Wikipedia, but if it is correct information it's certainly worth knowing.

Sayanim (sing. Sayan; Hebrew: helpers, assistants) refers to Diaspora Jews who provide assistance to the Mossad.[1] Gordon Thomas estimates that in the United States and Britain, there are at least 20,000 sayanim who aid Israel's intelligence agencies in a number of ways.

Generally-speaking, these non-Israeli Jewish volunteers are asked to engage in legal activities that will not bring them into trouble with the authorities. There are exceptions, however, as for example in the case of Jonathan Pollard, the U.S. Naval intelligence employee who engaged in espionage on behalf of Israel's intelligence agencies and whose exposure by the FBI strained relations between the U.S. and Israel.

Victor Ostrovsky, a former Mossad katsa turned author, wrote extensively about activities of the sayanim, as has Gordon Thomas. According Ostrovsky and Thomas, the sayanim provide assistance of various kinds to Mossad officers operating in foreign countries. This assistance can include facilitating medical care, money, logistics, and even overt intelligence gathering. They can be Judges, Court Clerks, Expert Witnesses, Child Protective Service Workers, Assistant District Attorneys, Police Officers, or anyone with a great degree of power over people's lives, and will do anything at the behest of Mossad case officers (katsa) for the State of Israel against its enemies or those perceived to be unfavorable politically to Israeli policy. (By Way of Deception, Victor Ostrovsky).

Bobby Angelus Askari. "The legendary alias of "Asad Khalil"- the lion. known master assassin and cell tracker for the Mossad. Also called the ghost for his ability to seemingly appear out of thin air (WTF? :blink: ). Not much else is known except this guy has over 122 confirmed kills in the span of four years. And was known to never kill women or children. As documentened by Air Force Combat command. :rolleyes:

It is all bullshit? Don't you find the Medialink/Video News Release stuff interesting?

Haaretz: Shattering a 'national mythology'By Ofri Ilani

According to the Tel Aviv University historian, Prof. Shlomo Sand, author of "Matai ve'ech humtza ha'am hayehudi?" ("When and How the Jewish People Was Invented?"; Resling, in Hebrew).....

In this work, the author attempts to prove that the Jews now living in Israel and other places in the world are not at all descendants of the ancient people who inhabited the Kingdom of Judea during the First and Second Temple period. Their origins, according to him, are in varied peoples that converted to Judaism during the course of history, in different corners of the Mediterranean Basin and the adjacent regions. Not only are the North African Jews for the most part descendants of pagans who converted to Judaism, but so are the Jews of Yemen (remnants of the Himyar Kingdom in the Arab Peninsula, who converted to Judaism in the fourth century) and the Ashkenazi Jews of Eastern Europe (refugees from the Kingdom of the Khazars, who converted in the eighth century).

He argues that for a number of Zionist ideologues, the mythical perception of the Jews as an ancient people led to truly racist thinking: "There were times when if anyone argued that the Jews belong to a people that has gentile origins, he would be classified as an anti-Semite on the spot. Today, if anyone dares to suggest that those who are considered Jews in the world ... have never constituted and still do not constitute a people or a nation - he is immediately condemned as a hater of Israel."

There are a lot of atheists of European decent in powerful positions who brainwash "the average Jew" into having a group mentality connected to everything Jewish, including "Jewish mafia/gangsters". Judaism is a religion, not a race, according to this professor in Tel Aviv. Would not this fact (if correct) make it easier for the average Jewish person to distance themselves from the crooks who use "Jew" as a smokescreen/gatekeeper to protect against any criticism while they continue their homicidal takeover routine of the world?

It is the Israeli state and it's sponsors that are mixing religion and politics here. If a group is using religion to brainwash people into going along with a criminal agenda, I think we should be aware of it.....

In 2006 Conservative Rabbi Jack Reimer, Bill Clinton's rabbinic counsel during his presidency, created a stir when he associated Islamic fundamentalism with the biblical nation of Amalek.

"I am becoming convinced that Islamic Fundamentalism, or, as some people prefer to call it, 'Islamo-fascism,' is the most dangerous force that we have ever faced and that it is worthy of the name: Amalek. We must recognize who Amalek is in our generation, and we must prepare to fight it in every way we can. And may God help us in this task."

"Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox, and sheep, camel and ass,"

"We have learned that we must warn against new dangers standing at the nations' gates and we must be prepared to defend ourselves. I vow that we will never help evil to cut our lives short. Never again."

The fundamental responses to the problem which we present below have different points of departure. Some people maintain that the question itself is not to the point, while others assert that a religious command should not be challenged in terms of human morality (1), yet others have claimed that there is no fundamental justification for challenging the command since such a stand stems from an overly righteous posture (2). Other responses try to provide a moral explanation of collective punishment, justifying it on the grounds that the great benefit resulting from such punishment outweighs the suffering it causes (3), or supporting it by the view that the death penalty applies by law to each and every descendant of Amalek in his own right (4).

1. Religious commands as superceding obligations of human morality. One way of coping with the problem is by asserting that religious commands are not to be questioned since they are not subject to the rules of human morality. This is essentially the argument that is hinted at in various homiletical interpretations according to which Saul was told, “Do not be more righteous than your Creator/Maker” (Eccles. Rabbah 7, Pirkei de-Rabbi Eliezer 43). Rabbi Isaac Arama enlarged on this subject in his work, Akedat Yitzhak (Ch. 42), claiming that revelation should take precedence over moral intuition when there is a conflict between the two:

Rabbi Isaac Arama, who justified Simeon and Levi’s massacre of the town of Shechem, viewing Simeon and Levi as people who “were raised from the womb on the roots of the true faith,” condemned king Saul because he acted in accordance with his sense of natural morality and “was guided by his human qualities” ?ibid.). According to his view, human rules of morality, even if they stem from the intuition of virtuous people, ought not to challenge divine commands.

More from Professor Hannah Kasher's paper:

Various homiletical interpretations have justified the command at hand on different utilitarian grounds: blotting out Amalek as a supreme necessity: “As long as the seed of Amalek exists in the world, neither the Name (of the Lord) nor the Throne are complete. When the seed of Amalek has passed from the world, the Name and the Throne will be complete (Pesikta de-Rav Kahana, ch. 3). This approach, widely echoed in kabbalistic writings, explains the obligation to wipe out any trace of Amalek on the grounds of the imaginary power of this tribe to harm the heavenly realms.

In other words, for reasons that are not spelled out ? perhaps genetic or educational -- the descendants of Amalek persist in the ways of their ancestors, “the root of the Amalekites’ sin being that they are in no way willing to subjugate themselves to Israel.

"The war of annihilation against Amalek is a war against a CONTEMPORARY foe in which one does not refrain from killing women and children".