CompTIA backs down; past certs remain valid for life

CompTIA has reversed course—existing holders of an A+, Network+, or Security+ …

Less than a month after retroactively declaring that its A+, Network+, and Security+ certifications would expire three years after the testing date, industry group CompTIA has reversed its position. All current holders of A+, Network+, and Security+ certs will remain certified for life, as they were promised when they took the exams.

In addition, anyone who takes those exams during 2010 will remain certified for life. Starting in 2011, however, new certs will expire after three years. Holders who wish to maintain their certification will then have to pay an annual fee to CompTIA of $25 or $49 and will need to rack up sufficient continuing education credits to renew their certs.

The initial decision to retroactively invalidate certifications generated considerable anger among cert holders, which we described in today's story on the fiasco. An hour after our original report went live, CompTIA contacted us with news about the change.

CompTIA president Todd Thibodeaux, announcing the policy change, said, "We do not wish to disenfranchise any of the individuals who have supported our certification program. The right thing to do is honor our past commitment to those certified under our original 'certified for life' policy."

Under the new plan, CompTIA can still maintain its own ANSI/ISO accreditation (both groups require that industry certifications have some mechanisms for ongoing training). "Our ISO accreditation is extremely important to us because of the global credibility it carries," added Thibideaux.

The news does not yet appear on CompTIA's website, but we're told that all the details of the revamped program will soon be available online.

Hopefully they do like some others suggested and rename the new cert anyways. The fact that the cert is "lifetime" is one of the key reasons it's value is so diluted. It will still lessen the value of the new cert if you've got tons of 10 year old A+ owners running around claiming to be certified.

Because 20+ years later in the IT industry I'm going to run out and recertify myself for CompTIA A+ / etc., and answer questions like "How do you configure TCP/IP for a network adapter?". Riiiiiight..

May as well go rewrite all those NT, Win98, WinXP, and Win2000 exams too, because they are so valuable now. :-P Used to love all the paper tigers at EDS, instead of actually troubleshooting a problem with a server their immediate answer was to format and reinstall the OS. Wonder if they went on to work in the auto repair industry afterwards: "Well, your spark plugs are worn out, so you should probably replace the engine".

I thought the value was so diluted because most high schoolers can do the work without even passing. Security+ might be a bit more difficult, but Network+ and A+ especially can be learned between your library classes and shop class, or spending a few minutes fiddling around after class.

I moved from my old job to an entry IT position. Gaining the Network+, Inet+, and security+ certs was a very educational experience, giving me lots of good basic knowledge to build upon, and to use to gain a promotion. I really don't care if the certs expire or not, it was studying for them and learning that benefited me.

I got my A+ in 2008 and my Network+ in 2009, they are purely resume fodder, it shows I am willing to work to get them. It did take effort and time and money, and it is something measurable. I love people that say "I am self taught, I have no degree or certifications" I wonder how many holes in their education exist. Probably lots. At least with a certified person they know at least 70% of it. But certs without experience aren't worth much, but having both certs and experience is the way to go.

To date, no one has asked to see any of my certifications (even though I have them on file at my home), but having them on my resume has almost always led to them being mentioned during an interview. (Well, at least when I was in the IT biz.)

I guess you can always lie and say you have them, but what happens when they ask to see your certs?

That said, taking the certifications was a good internal way for me to know whether I really knew my stuff or not.

Originally posted by hutch85:Because 20+ years later in the IT industry I'm going to run out and recertify myself for CompTIA A+ / etc., and answer questions like "How do you configure TCP/IP for a network adapter?". Riiiiiight..

May as well go rewrite all those NT, Win98, WinXP, and Win2000 exams too, because they are so valuable now. :-P Used to love all the paper tigers at EDS, instead of actually troubleshooting a problem with a server their immediate answer was to format and reinstall the OS. Wonder if they went on to work in the auto repair industry afterwards: "Well, your spark plugs are worn out, so you should probably replace the engine".

If you go that direction, why do you even need a certificate? I can google!!

Originally posted by JediFonger:eh... wouldn't a true cisco cert. or ms cert. give u more of an edge?

Of course. There's really no comparison, though. They aren't apples to apples. The CompTIA certs are typically beginner-level accomplishments for people starting out in the IT industry (and are pretty much below an 8th grade skill level).

The upper-echelon Microsoft certification exams are much, much more involved, more like a high school level exam, and cannot really be passed through simple brain-dumps and flash card exercises. You have to show your mettle.

Originally posted by JediFonger:do these things really matter for IT network people?

What happens is you find that companies like Best Buy and Fry's want their 'techs' to be A+ certified to hold their job. Its mostly used near the 'low' end of the industry. The only problem that I can see is that the A+ test itself tended to be very out of date. (Took the test in like 2000, and was still asking about basic 'dos' style commands. At the time I hadn't used them in years.) So the cert itself really is no more then just a sheet of expensive paper in my opinion.

Originally posted by hutch85:Because 20+ years later in the IT industry I'm going to run out and recertify myself for CompTIA A+ / etc., and answer questions like "How do you configure TCP/IP for a network adapter?". Riiiiiight..

May as well go rewrite all those NT, Win98, WinXP, and Win2000 exams too, because they are so valuable now. :-P Used to love all the paper tigers at EDS, instead of actually troubleshooting a problem with a server their immediate answer was to format and reinstall the OS. Wonder if they went on to work in the auto repair industry afterwards: "Well, your spark plugs are worn out, so you should probably replace the engine".

Well seems perfectly acceptable in the laser printer industry, save for Kyocera

Originally posted by hutch85:Because 20+ years later in the IT industry I'm going to run out and recertify myself for CompTIA A+ / etc., and answer questions like "How do you configure TCP/IP for a network adapter?". Riiiiiight..

May as well go rewrite all those NT, Win98, WinXP, and Win2000 exams too, because they are so valuable now. :-P Used to love all the paper tigers at EDS, instead of actually troubleshooting a problem with a server their immediate answer was to format and reinstall the OS. Wonder if they went on to work in the auto repair industry afterwards: "Well, your spark plugs are worn out, so you should probably replace the engine".

If you go that direction, why do you even need a certificate? I can google!!

To get your butt in the door to show that "you can Google."

Most IT employers, when faced with an incumbent with 20+ years exp. and no certs and an incumbent with 10+ years and certs, are almost always going to pick the latter just to get an interview . It doesn't matter that in your 20+ years of experience you might "know more" or be "a better employee" than the 10+ exp. incumbent with certifications. In most cases you wouldn't even get the chance to prove yourself when the prospective employer is sifting through nearly thousands of incumbents, most of whom have industry certifications. You won't even make the interview list.

Correct. It wasn't a money-grab...they were simply trying to appease reqs from ISO/ANSI foundations due to the new accreditation.

I assume they worked something out with the ISO/ANSI foundations in order to avoid any possible class-action lawsuits.

Apparently, those organizations don't care about the previous cert holders. They're only concerned that from here on out they meet the requirements. Also, the VP of CompTIA said that it was just easier to not have to break cert holders into classes.

quote:

Originally posted by JediFonger:eh... wouldn't a true cisco cert. or ms cert. give u more of an edge?

Frankly I am glad my relatively worthless Security + will remain valid. I would not much effort into enforcing the previous agreement but I'd certainly enjoy seeing them nailed by a class action over it which they have now avoided by doing the right thing and honoring their agreement.

Now of course, COMPTIA is basically shooting themselves in the foot because without the lifetime part, their certs are now 99% worthless especially since their exam fees are so much higher than most vendor certs.

Before I came into IT, I worked at a Pearson Testing Center. While we didn't administer IT exams, being in the community still opened my eyes -- firms like CompTIA make a proverbial KILLING off the cost of these exams. They literally cost nothing to make, are administered electronically (equating to 0 overhead), and are accompanied by fat premium charge to take the test (pass or fail).

That being said, my biggest problem with these certs isn't the cost of the actual test -- it's the study material. In addition to the previously mentioned exam fee, these f*ckers are getting rich off the ridiculous cost of the study mats. Every A+ book on the market is as worthless as the next, and costs a damn fortune.

Now, I'm a reasonable person and, if given the numbers, am willing to cede the point of cash-grab. Supposing its true, making this policy retroactive is a heinous act and if the lawsuits don't put them under, karma certainly will.

From the website...CompTIA is the non-profit trade association advancing the global interests of information technology (IT) professionals and companies including manufacturers, distributors, resellers, and educational institutions.

I hold multiple CompTIA certifications. Am I required to renew each of them?No. Individuals with multiple CompTIA certifications will be required to renew only at their highest level certification. For example, someone who holds CompTIA A+, CompTIA Network+ and CompTIA Security+ certifications would be required to meet only the continuing education requirements for CompTIA Security+.

If I read that correctly...by maintaining the highest level one, then you stay current with you previous certs.

You are not reading that correctly. It actually says "CASH GRAB". Sec+ to keep your A+ current? How are those even related?This just seems like they want more money with the least outrage.

With certs that are "good for life" you do not have people paying you regularly. Adding more + certs (Super Mario+???WTF?) didn't make them enough $$ so it is time to expire the ones that are out there and hope people renew.

A+: the "Is it plugged in?" cert.Network+: The "Is it plugged in?... No, no, the phone shaped hole, not the electric one." cert.Security+: The "Store your password Post It under your keyboard, not on your monitor." cert.

I have no idea why anyone gets these. You can save money and just put "Severe drinking problem" on your resume, rather than A+.

OK confession time. I actually have an A+. No wait, listen, it is not my fault!My last company decided we would all go get A+ certs on the company dime (turned out the reason was that if 75% of the IT people at you company have an A+ your company can be certified Stupid+, or something like that). So my clueless mgmt selected me as the guinea pig to see how tough the tests were. The said you will have X hours for the first one and X hours the next day for the 2nd one. So I went knocked them both out in ~1/2 hr and then took a VERY long lunch. I do not talk about this cert in polite company and I certainly DO NOT put it on my resume or in my email sig (I still laugh at the guy at work who has PMP and A+ in his sig). The test was obsolete when I took it and is just as valid today as it was the day I got it. I think they could just say that you + cert is "not good" for life. It will never expire but it will never be good. I considered taking the Sec+ as a joke after knocking out my CISSP. Considered it again after my CISA. A joke just ain't worth that money though (well OK, a good joke might be. I still want to fill a pinata with plastic airline booze bottles).

The + certs are the Must Consult Someone Else of old. I see it on a resume and expect it was boot camped by someone who has a problem turning on their own machine. Nah, I guess it is more like stating you are a leper.

Now for damages in the class action, there is the time I spent on it, the fee for it, the lost wages from all the jobs I will not be able to get if it expires, and then the emotional damages, Oh the emotional damages!

There are so many ways for "non profit" organization to make profit. They can outsource service to their friends, relatives, or even board member's own company. They can twist the service enough so that it is hard for other company to bid (for example, I know a school that bundle IT service and catering together, so the only company that bid on the contract is the chairman's other company. They can hire "consultants". They can pay themselves and give themselves all the perks. "Non profit" is really just a front end, it doesn't mean the people behind it is not making all kinds of profit.

I still have my A+ Cert from 1998. (chuckle) Not good for much, other than to show how long I've been doing what I do for a living.

Back then there were questions about DIP switches, jumpers, IRQ's, serial ports, and even a couple laser printer questions thrown in for free. And the Windows 9x questions were just coming out (I got a discount for beta-testing the test).

That doesn't mean anything. They have a paid staff. They have monthly bills. They have a product that they charge customers for. They have license agreements with publishers that provide kickbacks for all materials sold. They have tests that cost money, and agreements with testing centers (test publishers, if you will) that also provide kickbacks for all tests taken. They have bank accounts that accrue interest on monies not spent. They have a website that performs credit card transactions. Their employees receive raises. The only difference between them and a "for profit" business is their tax status.

Claiming that:

quote:

From the website...CompTIA is the non-profit trade association advancing the global interests of information technology (IT) professionals and companies including manufacturers, distributors, resellers, and educational institutions.

is off the mark. There is no direct link, nor can any credit be attributed to CompTIA, between the development of any of the new technologies/techniques in the IT industry and the certification of entry level IT personnel.

I know I sound like an asshole right now, but the proof is in the practice. There isn't a single posting on the internet from a seasoned IT professional that claims their career was aided and the industry made a better place by the existence of CompTIA's paper certifications.

I know I sound like an asshole right now, but the proof is in the practice. There isn't a single posting on the internet from a seasoned IT professional that claims their career was aided and the industry made a better place by the existence of CompTIA's paper certifications.

I don't think you sound like an asshole. And I certainly don't disagree with the second statement you made, at least as it pertains to me. I have the A+, S+, and N+ certs, have had them since '99, and I will be the first person to tell you that they have provided me exactly nothing in my IT career, with the only possible exception being the fact that they might have gotten me in the door someplace over another incumbent who didn't have them (although I have no way to prove that so it's only speculation).

That being the case, I'm not sure what that has to do with their non-profit status.

All non-profits have staff that must be paid (or volunteer staff, which I doubt Comp/TIA has much of). We all know the fiasco of Goodwill's multi-million dollar CEO. I'm not sure what having paid staff has to do with non-profit status I guess is what I'm trying to say.

Being non-profit pretty much means (in my limited knowledge) that you follow the rules and regulations within US 501(c). Basically, the executive staff don't answer to shareholders because there aren't any (in a very, very limited way of looking at it).

That being the case, I'm not sure what that has to do with their non-profit status.

All non-profits have staff that must be paid (or volunteer staff, which I doubt Comp/TIA has much of). We all know the fiasco of Goodwill's multi-million dollar CEO. I'm not sure what having paid staff has to do with non-profit status I guess is what I'm trying to say.

I suppose I was rash in my statement. What I was getting at was a comparison between CompTIA's "non-profit" operations and Company X's "for-profit" operations. The two are startlingly similar; multiple revenue streams, associated business costs, etc. Perhaps if there were more tangible evidence that CompTIA's earnings went to something other than developing the next worthless cert, I'd be more reluctant to bash them when they claim "CompTIA is the non-profit trade association advancing the global interests of information technology (IT)..." Because right now, their model & their product do not indicate that we are purchasing anything except a subscription certification.

And now for the other perspective. I have a few friends that were planning to pick up Network and A certs in the coming year. They pick it up, never have to renew and never have to pay a dime. How exactly does someone picking it up next year feel motivated or feel the need to do so, paying 40 bucks a year in perpetuity AND having to renew the cert by taking time consuming bs classes.

Do you see what I'm getting with this. Is it me or do the new certs have to be ramped up in some way in value or usefulness to compensate users for the BS that they have to deal with, for such a useless cert? I mean...wth?

So someone getting it this year gets it for free in perpetuity and with no additional work. Someone that gets it next year magically has to work longer, harder and pay more for the same cert? Before anyone answers..."That's life...blah blah blah"...not really.I mean the amount of trouble for such a simple, primitive cert is disproportionately high.

Not only are you paying 30-50 a year(which can really add up over the course of 10-15 years!) but it also requires tedium of keeping track of the dumb cert AND all the EXTRA work you'll have to do just to keep it active and current. For a throwaway cert that most here on both threads have called just to the right of useless...it just doesn't sound worth it.

So the question becomes...Ok. You appeased all the "nerd rage" of your current cert holders and presented them with an option for no stress, no hassle and no payment. Your future holders will have more work, more hassle and they'll pay through the nose. What will you offer them...in extra, to compensate them for all that crap or are you trying to sell the new certs the idea that they have to pay much more, work more, and have more stress just to get the same, negligibly small benefits.

Is it me or is that a recipe for disaster for CompTia? I mean, they're really going to need to come up with some kind of carrot for the new recruits. Telling new certs that they're doing and paying more for the same benefits sounds profoundly moronic.

CompTIA being a non-profit doesn't mean they can't be making a killing... doesn't really mean anything except that they can use their non-profit status for good PR.

The executives could still pay themselves millions and be profiting from third-party companies responsible for the books used to help pass the exams.

I'm not saying that's the case, I just wanted to point out that CompTIA being non-profit might mean the company itself doesn't make a killing, but it doesn't mean the people behind CompTIA aren't personally making a killing.

Instead of the company making a profit and paying out to shareholders, the company doesn't make a profit and pays (probable) large salaries to the executives. Revenue goes up, from, say, requiring three-year renewals? Higher salaries and/or bonuses. To think the people behind CompTIA aren't factoring profit into decisions like this is naive.

In essence, the non-profit part has zero relevance to how valuable and profitable the management of these certs are for those that administer them.

A company being "non-profit" is the equivalent of doing something "for the children". It sounds good, but means nothing by itself.

@ronelsonI thought the value was so diluted because most high schoolers can do the work without even passing. Security+ might be a bit more difficult, but Network+ and A+ especially can be learned between your library classes and shop class, or spending a few minutes fiddling around after class.

Which is exactly what I did, and got my A+ during college. Would you rather hire me, or the guy who played GameBoy Tetris between library classes? Getting the rocket to launch was cool, huh? I also got my CNA during college. Both helped immensely in getting foot in the door interviews.

quote:

Ajax81There isn't a single posting on the internet from a seasoned IT professional that claims their career was aided and the industry made a better place by the existence of CompTIA's paper certifications.

OK, here is one: I am seasoned IT professional, with certs in A+, CNA, CNE4/5, GK TCP/IP, Fluke LAnameter, CCA, Pervasive DB, MCDBA, OCP and a few scattered others. The A+ cert was a big help in getting my FIRST job, which is all it is ever used for. That's all it is really for - to seperate the guys willing to put in an extra hour or so of study time to undertand things better, from those who are just too lazy.

One of my questions was to identify a standard north american wall plug. Seriously, that is how silly some of the questions were. The ones on the INI files were harder, and some of the DOS syntax was tricky. Was it hard for *todays* average ARS reader? No. Was it useful for the $45 it cost me then? Yes.

I wonder if all the complainers in this thread would pass todays version of the test. Most people would not have passed the test back then without some studying and/or being a real PC nerd.

Today I only use two 'useless certs' in my signature: 'MBA, PMP'. But now that I know my A+ never expired I could add it back in.....nah.