> Hi all, The cooling water that comes outta the condenser is about
> 55degree @ about 500-1000ml a minute. I see this as a HUGE amount
> of energy been wasted. What I would like to do is use some kind of
> clever heat exchanger to concentrate and put that energy put back

Goedendag Chris,
Simple solution. Use two elements. Your existing 2000W and another
of around 700 or 800 watt. Use both to bring to boiling point.
Kill the 2000w. Run on the smaller element. There's plenty of info
here if you do a search.
Re the water. Recycle it. I've got a diagram here...http://www.geocities.com/gnikomson2000/recycled_water.jpg
and yes I do use it with my rig. Works perfectly!
HTH
Slainte!
regards Harry

Robert N

... Hi all, The cooling water that comes outta the condenser is about 55 degree @ about 500-1000ml a minute. I see this as a HUGE amount of energy been wasted.

Message 2 of 15
, Apr 1, 2004

------------

Hi all, The cooling water that comes outta the condenser is about 55

degree @ about 500-1000ml a minute. I see this as a HUGE amount
of energy been wasted. What I would like to do is use some kind of
clever heat exchanger to concentrate and put that energy put back into
the boiler. I am not very clever on these matters, is there anyone who's
got some ideas on how to do this? I figure that if it is possible that once
the distillation was equalized that i would only need a small element to
keep things going(at the moment i am using 2000watt element). Any
ideas would be great.

Hi Chris, there are a few differing ways of achieving this goal. You can use
two elements as per Harry's explanation. Or a variac, such as the Sutronics
device that is mentioned every other week. Then there are electronic devices
such as a thermocouple and a PID. These ideas have been explored extensively
previously and you would be wise to do some research of the achieves before
jumping one way or the other.

Yours in Spirit

Robert

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

peter_vcb

lower power will also lead to a far better spirit. go for the burst fired controller if you are into experimenting. go with Harrys 7-800W element otherwise. i

Message 3 of 15
, Apr 2, 2004

lower power will also lead to a far better spirit. go for the burst
fired controller if you are into experimenting. go with Harrys 7-800W
element otherwise. i now consider low power as important or more
important that a tall column, fancy packing or high RR

>
> Hi all, The cooling water that comes outta the condenser is about

55

>
> degree @ about 500-1000ml a minute. I see this as a HUGE amount
> of energy been wasted. What I would like to do is use some kind of
> clever heat exchanger to concentrate and put that energy put back

into

> the boiler. I am not very clever on these matters, is there anyone

who's

> got some ideas on how to do this? I figure that if it is possible

that once

> the distillation was equalized that i would only need a small

element to

> keep things going(at the moment i am using 2000watt element). Any
> ideas would be great.
>
> Regards Chris (half Dutch fella trying to save on electricity bill)
> ----------------
>
> Hi Chris, there are a few differing ways of achieving this goal.

You can use

> two elements as per Harry's explanation. Or a variac, such as the

Sutronics

> device that is mentioned every other week. Then there are

electronic devices

> such as a thermocouple and a PID. These ideas have been explored

extensively

> previously and you would be wise to do some research of the

achieves before

> jumping one way or the other.
>
>
>
> Yours in Spirit
>
>
>
> Robert
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Zarklan Zhaphedoix

If you were doing multiple batches... like over a weekend you could use a sump pump or similiar pump to pump the next batch as the coolant or you could use a

Message 4 of 15
, Apr 2, 2004

If you were doing multiple batches... like over a weekend you could use a sump pump or similiar pump to pump the next batch as the coolant or you could use a wort chiller in line in your set up. I have been thinking of this for a while. After my super still construction I am planning on a closed loop cooling system. Currently I use 32 gallon trash cans as fermentors. I am thinking on using a wal mart bilge pump in a recycling container filled with 10 gallons of water. From here the water will travel to the cooling condenser for the still. Then the water will travel a few feet and go into my wort chiller where some heat will be transferred to the next batch of sugar wash. The coolant will then travel into the recycling basin and then back through the pump. I think this will work and I already have the immersion wortchiller.

Does this sound like a reasonable plan to you? I think it conserves water and hopefully will have enough cooling effect.

My wort chiller is a 50 foot copper coil of 1/4inch pipe. The flow through the chiller might be too slow so I am also thinking of a bypass so that not all of the water running through the pump has to go to the heat exchanger.

degree @ about 500-1000ml a minute. I see this as a HUGE amount
of energy been wasted. What I would like to do is use some kind of
clever heat exchanger to concentrate and put that energy put back into
the boiler. I am not very clever on these matters, is there anyone who's
got some ideas on how to do this? I figure that if it is possible that once
the distillation was equalized that i would only need a small element to
keep things going(at the moment i am using 2000watt element). Any
ideas would be great.

Hi Chris, there are a few differing ways of achieving this goal. You can use
two elements as per Harry's explanation. Or a variac, such as the Sutronics
device that is mentioned every other week. Then there are electronic devices
such as a thermocouple and a PID. These ideas have been explored extensively
previously and you would be wise to do some research of the achieves before
jumping one way or the other.

Howdy Folks! This is my first posting. Here in The Dark Corner of SC, (South Carolina s moonshine capital) some of the old timers just use a 50 foot coil of

Message 5 of 15
, Apr 2, 2004

Howdy Folks!
This is my first posting. Here in "The Dark Corner" of SC, (South Carolina's
moonshine capital) some of the old timers just use a 50 foot coil of 3/8"
copper tubing on their stills,
with no cooling water necessary. By the time the vapor gets to the end of the
coil, it has all
condensed to liquid. It seems to me that the best way to conserve H2O is to
turn down the fire a bit, and not use any!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Robert N

_____ From: Zarklan Zhaphedoix [mailto:fermentsindarkness@yahoo.com] If you were doing multiple batches... like over a weekend you could use a sump pump or

If you were doing multiple batches... like over a weekend you could use a
sump pump or similiar pump to pump the next batch as the coolant or you
could use a wort chiller in line in your set up. I have been thinking of
this for a while. After my super still construction I am planning on a
closed loop cooling system. Currently I use 32 gallon trash cans as
fermentors. I am thinking on using a wal mart bilge pump in a recycling
container filled with 10 gallons of water. From here the water will travel
to the cooling condenser for the still. Then the water will travel a few
feet and go into my wort chiller where some heat will be transferred to the
next batch of sugar wash. The coolant will then travel into the recycling
basin and then back through the pump. I think this will work and I already
have the immersion wortchiller.

Does this sound like a reasonable plan to you? I think it conserves water
and hopefully will have enough cooling effect.

My wort chiller is a 50 foot copper coil of 1/4inch pipe. The flow through
the chiller might be too slow so I am also thinking of a bypass so that not
all of the water running through the pump has to go to the heat exchanger.
______________________________________

The problem with doing this is how many multiple fermented batches do you
have on hand. Ok for the first but the second or last one requires a
different setup or the very least to fill the now empty with water. The
other thing to consider here is have you filtered the wort and removed the
solids prior to using it as a coolant? It would also cause some evaporation
of the alcohol in that wash, which should be ok so long as the fermenter
remains sealed.

Something you may come across using your wort chiller given that its 50
foot of ¼ tube is resistance. To get a pump to lift fluid the height of
the condenser, push a fluid through that length of ¼ tube, plus your
condenser and maintain the flow rate, will be the challenge. Mains pressure
water is one thing, using a pump to do this usually causes the pump to fail
prematurely.

This is the primary reason I went to a shotgun condenser, the pond pump I
use has 1 BSP fittings and hose. To reduce the resistance on the pump I had
to go with the bigger hose and fittings, this then required a different
style of condenser. Because I had an offset head on my refractionating
still, I also had to build another head (EL), because the tendency of the
weight of the water, condenser plus the coolant hoses would have caused the
still to topple over.

Obviously everyones needs are different; you may find that the setup you
have described will work well. I offer the above comments to provoke thought
and so you may avoid some pitfalls. Whichever way you decide to go, I wish
you luck. Please let us know of your trials and tribulations and successes.

Yours in Spirit

Robert

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

William Thompson

... I built a 1m reflux using the world class still plans http://www.moonshine-still.com/ At the bottom of the condensor outlet I soldered a 1/2 union which

> Howdy Folks!
> This is my first posting. Here in "The Dark Corner"
> of SC, (South Carolina's
> moonshine capital) some of the old timers just use a
> 50 foot coil of 3/8"
> copper tubing on their stills,
> with no cooling water necessary. By the time the
> vapor gets to the end of the
> coil, it has all
> condensed to liquid. It seems to me that the best
> way to conserve H2O is to
> turn down the fire a bit, and not use any!

I built a 1m reflux using the world class still planshttp://www.moonshine-still.com/
At the bottom of the condensor outlet I soldered a
1/2" union which is where I attach my collection tube.
It is 1/2" copper pipe that runs about 4 feet out,
away from the propane fire into a collection device.

When I run cooling through the tubes, the stillhead
temperature drops from 78 C to about 40 C; I havn't
managed to get enough heat into the boiler to handle
full cooling power. What I do is fill the condensor
with cool water and turn off the pump white I'm
running at 78. Every once in a while I'll hit the pump
for a few seconds to run through one volume of cool
water. Anyway, the length of cool pipe attached to the
union acts as a second condensor. I probably wouldn't
ever even need to turn my coolant pump on, unless I
wanted 100% reflux.

Thanks. I think the resistance will be an issue. When I have used my wort chiller to cool wort for fermentation my connection has just been to friction fit

Message 8 of 15
, Apr 3, 2004

Thanks. I think the resistance will be an issue. When I have used my wort chiller to cool wort for fermentation my connection has just been to friction fit some clear hose that on one hand has a brass barb and clamp. At least a couple of times during the cooling I have to re-attach the hose.

I am now thinking about a cooling manifold with additional circuits where I could preheat wash or run it through the circuit with a transmission cooler and two muffin fans.

If you were doing multiple batches... like over a weekend you could use a
sump pump or similiar pump to pump the next batch as the coolant or you
could use a wort chiller in line in your set up. I have been thinking of
this for a while. After my super still construction I am planning on a
closed loop cooling system. Currently I use 32 gallon trash cans as
fermentors. I am thinking on using a wal mart bilge pump in a recycling
container filled with 10 gallons of water. From here the water will travel
to the cooling condenser for the still. Then the water will travel a few
feet and go into my wort chiller where some heat will be transferred to the
next batch of sugar wash. The coolant will then travel into the recycling
basin and then back through the pump. I think this will work and I already
have the immersion wortchiller.

Does this sound like a reasonable plan to you? I think it conserves water
and hopefully will have enough cooling effect.

My wort chiller is a 50 foot copper coil of 1/4inch pipe. The flow through
the chiller might be too slow so I am also thinking of a bypass so that not
all of the water running through the pump has to go to the heat exchanger.
______________________________________

The problem with doing this is how many multiple fermented batches� do you
have on hand. Ok for the first but the second or last one requires a
different setup or the very least to fill the now empty with water. The
other thing to consider here is have you filtered the wort and removed the
solids prior to using it as a coolant? It would also cause some evaporation
of the alcohol in that wash, which should be ok so long as the fermenter
remains sealed.

Something you may come across using your wort chiller given that its �50
foot of �� tube� is resistance. To get a pump to lift fluid the height of
the condenser, push a fluid through that length of �� tube, plus your
condenser and maintain the flow rate, will be the challenge. Mains pressure
water is one thing, using a pump to do this usually causes the pump to fail
prematurely.

This is the primary reason I went to a shotgun condenser, the pond pump I
use has 1� BSP fittings and hose. To reduce the resistance on the pump I had
to go with the bigger hose and fittings, this then required a different
style of condenser. Because I had an offset head on my refractionating
still, I also had to build another head (EL), because the tendency of the
weight of the water, condenser plus the coolant hoses would have caused the
still to topple over.

Obviously everyone�s needs are different; you may find that the setup you
have described will work well. I offer the above comments to provoke thought
and so you may avoid some pitfalls. Whichever way you decide to go, I wish
you luck. Please let us know of your trials and tribulations and successes.

The distillation of alchohol is Highly frowned upon here in "The Dark
Corner" so not many will allow pics. to be taken. The folks using the
waterless method i had mentioned simply get a 50 to 60 foot coil of
3/8" copper tubing (from the hardware store) and stretch it out a bit
to allow good air circulation around the coil (leaving the original
coil shape virtually intact). Then they attach one end to the still
(Pot stills are the norm, some with thumper kegs)
using a flare fitting, or compression fitting. After a run, they
collapse the coil back down to it's fresh from the hardware store
shape 'till next run. While distilling, they shoot for a slow drip
from the "worm" and adjust the heat source (wood fire or propane)
acordingly. Most of the moonshine made here is corn whiskey
(darn good too) and sold at around 95 to 105 proof.

gilamander7734

... The distillation of alchohol is Highly frowned upon here in The Dark Corner so not many will allow pics. to be taken. The folks using the waterless

The distillation of alchohol is Highly frowned upon here in "The Dark
Corner" so not many will allow pics. to be taken. The folks using the
waterless method i had mentioned simply get a 50 to 60 foot coil of
3/8" copper tubing (from the hardware store) and stretch it out a bit
to allow good air circulation around the coil (leaving the original
coil shape virtually intact). Then they attach one end to the still
(Pot stills are the norm, some with thumper kegs)
using a flare fitting, or compression fitting. After a run, they
collapse the coil back down to it's fresh from the hardware store
shape 'till next run. While distilling, they shoot for a slow drip
from the "worm" and adjust the heat source (wood fire or propane)
acordingly. Most of the moonshine made here is corn whiskey
(darn good too) and sold at around 95 to 105 proof.

Sven Pfitt

With lots of air circulation, it will work well for a pot still. Column stills are a differnt animal. You could probably rig some type of convection cooling

Message 12 of 15
, Apr 5, 2004

With lots of air circulation, it will work well for a pot still.

Column stills are a differnt animal. You could probably rig some type
of convection cooling for them, but they take any where from 4 to 20X
as much cooling as a pot still of the same capacity.

> waterless method i had mentioned simply get a 50 to 60 foot coil of
> 3/8" copper tubing (from the hardware store) and stretch it out a

bit

> to allow good air circulation around the coil (leaving the original
> coil shape virtually intact). Then they attach one end to the still
> (Pot stills are the norm, some with thumper kegs)
> using a flare fitting, or compression fitting. After a run, they
> collapse the coil back down to it's fresh from the hardware store
> shape 'till next run. While distilling, they shoot for a slow drip
> from the "worm" and adjust the heat source (wood fire or propane)
> acordingly. Most of the moonshine made here is corn whiskey
> (darn good too) and sold at around 95 to 105 proof.

gilamander7734

... type ... 20X ... stills, but it would seem to me that you would require only enough heat to get just past the point of total reflux in the column. At that

> With lots of air circulation, it will work well for a pot still.
>
> Column stills are a differnt animal. You could probably rig some

type

> of convection cooling for them, but they take any where from 4 to

20X

> as much cooling as a pot still of the same capacity.
>
> I grew up in Lexington county, outside Cayce.
>
> Sven
> Howdy Sven,
> I Don't know much at all about fractional distillation or column

stills, but it would seem to me that you would require only enough
heat to get just past the point of total reflux in the column. At
that point I would think the cooling requirements for the worm or
condenser should be about the same for either type of still.
(Maybe I'm wrong on this point, I'm just theorizing here.)
You would still need water for the reflux condenser in the column
still (or a very tall column could possibly work on air cooling)
I am thinking that the cooling needed is directly proportional
to the heat being applied to the system, therefore using the minimum
heating possible would minimize the cooling required. The 4 to 20X
cooling you stated must be what is being used for reflux?
Ever catch any Pine Barrens Treefrogs while in Lexington County?
Have a good one, Charlie

gilamander7734

... type ... 20X ... stills, but it would seem to me that you would require only enough heat to get just past the point of total reflux in the column. At that

> With lots of air circulation, it will work well for a pot still.
>
> Column stills are a differnt animal. You could probably rig some

type

> of convection cooling for them, but they take any where from 4 to

20X

> as much cooling as a pot still of the same capacity.
>
> I grew up in Lexington county, outside Cayce.
>
> Sven
> Howdy Sven,
> I Don't know much at all about fractional distillation or column

stills, but it would seem to me that you would require only enough
heat to get just past the point of total reflux in the column. At
that point I would think the cooling requirements for the worm or
condenser should be about the same for either type of still.
(Maybe I'm wrong on this point, I'm just theorizing here.)
You would still need water for the reflux condenser in the column
still (or a very tall column could possibly work on air cooling)
I am thinking that the cooling needed is directly proportional
to the heat being applied to the system, therefore using the minimum
heating possible would minimize the cooling required. The 4 to 20X
cooling you stated must be what is being used for reflux?
Ever catch any Pine Barrens Treefrogs while in Lexington County?
Have a good one, Charlie

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