Instead of combat trees, equipment trees.

Recommended Posts

After the "Exploration basics" tree there is a tree called the "Vessels." To equip rare, epic, and then legendary vessels requires that you unlock these skills first.

It doesn't seem too farfetched to suggest this could also be done with equipment such as weapons and armor. Crows should be limited to white equipment until they unlock the rare tree of whichever piece of gear. Each rarity would get it's own tree which would only help items of that quality.

This way when a new campaign starts crows, depending on the rules, won't receive just flat stats. To receive the stat increase from the rare equipment tree you'd have to have a rare piece equipped. If a crow feels like they never see epic loot in "the dregs" he can simply ignore the epic tree until later in his career.

This would help early game crafting as well as new players crafting. Instead of new combat crows wanting the highest stat loot, they would instead look to white gear due to equipment restrictions. A new crafter probably can't make rare gear so this works out, there will be a higher demand for lower quality gear.

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

grind 24/7 to tier3 then to tier4 then to tier5, repeat until notout of date

this makes big problems for new players and existed coz resources are quicklydepreciate (= stable inflation)

there are already alot of such grind-type games like every korean

What do you mean by grind and tiers? Crowfall already has white,green,blue,purple, and orange colored gear. The suggestion has nothing to do with.. "grind." You would still passively train like before.

I can deal with the grind on Albion but not the wipes, that's why i hardly play, tho its a grind. Much prefer Crowfall's but still think the current skill tree can be alot better.

I looked up Albion online, from what I can tell they don't have passive training. Unsure where Albion online came from, but if you were grinding experience points... then I guess.... still not seeing it.

Basically the suggestion would be like this.

Current iteration - Increase critical strike while using swords by up to 5%

Suggestion - Increase critical strike while using rare swords by up to 5%.

This way you're not just a rolling ball of stats, you have to unlock rare swords first.

Edited January 31, 2017 by Impossum

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

What do you mean by grind and tiers? Crowfall already has white,green,blue,purple, and orange colored gear. The suggestion has nothing to do with.. "grind." You would still passively train like before.

I looked up Albion online, from what I can tell they don't have passive training. Unsure where Albion online came from, but if you were grinding experience points... then I guess.... still not seeing it.

Basically the suggestion would be like this.

Current iteration - Increase critical strike while using swords by up to 5%

Suggestion - Increase critical strike while using rare swords by up to 5%.

This way you're not just a rolling ball of stats, you have to unlock rare swords first.

This just sounds like adding an extra set of gates blocking content that is already gated behind several tiers of skill training.

In order to HAVE a blue sword, you already need a bunch of people. You need harvesters capable of farming blue metal and blue leather, as well as crafters capable of making high-quality blue bars and planks out of those materials. Then you need a leatherworker and a blacksmith to make the components, and probably a second blacksmith who specializes in making finished swords.

All of these 7 people need to have invested significant amounts of time in their various specialities in order to make an optimized and perfect "blue" sword, which I assume is what you're meaning when you describe one. And you're suggesting that after spending large quantities of time or money trading to get this perfect sword made by skilled crafters and harvesters all working in concert...you should then have to spend a month of your precious skill investments just to wear it?

What's the point of the work that went into it, then? Why not just remove the crafting prerequisites and make someone who invests heavily into swinging swords better hit harder with any sword, like they already did?

Edit: this suggestion also makes the stats on a blue sword worthless. If the benefits of a blue sword are derived only from your skill trees, who cares what the sword DOES?

Link to post

Share on other sites

After the "Exploration basics" tree there is a tree called the "Vessels." To equip rare, epic, and then legendary vessels requires that you unlock these skills first.

It doesn't seem too farfetched to suggest this could also be done with equipment such as weapons and armor. Crows should be limited to white equipment until they unlock the rare tree of whichever piece of gear. Each rarity would get it's own tree which would only help items of that quality.

This way when a new campaign starts crows, depending on the rules, won't receive just flat stats. To receive the stat increase from the rare equipment tree you'd have to have a rare piece equipped. If a crow feels like they never see epic loot in "the dregs" he can simply ignore the epic tree until later in his career.

This would help early game crafting as well as new players crafting. Instead of new combat crows wanting the highest stat loot, they would instead look to white gear due to equipment restrictions. A new crafter probably can't make rare gear so this works out, there will be a higher demand for lower quality gear.

Nope

The gate to better gear is through the campaign worlds you willing to enter. If you want the best stuff, go to the dregs. That is a MUCH better gate than, "wait arbitrary length of time".

They switched the pick upgrades in the ore line from the resource type to effective penetration for all.

I suspect that they are going to do the exact same thing with vessels, and strip out the "train to equip" lines and replace with some sort of across the board buff.

Edited February 2, 2017 by KrakkenSmacken

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

The difference between vessels and other gear is that white quality vessels are available for free. Imagine a new player entering a Dregs campaign. He doesn't have any of the gear levels trained yet and all of the harvesting nodes are dropping green or better. I guess that player can use basic weapons and armor. He might be able to craft an advanced weapon using slag. In either case, that player will be at a severe disadvantage to those who have already trained for higher quality gear.

As others said, I don't think there needs to be any more gates on gear.

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

My personal view on vessels: don't ban any unless researched. I think vessels tree is similar to combat in some way but provides more general stats. I don't think it is good to have two similar trees. The outcome could be wrecked progress of players who are not able to plan very deeply. They could be switching among several trees and have no progress in any.

Mercenary guild is recruiting. Send me a message if you are interested.

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

This just sounds like adding an extra set of gates blocking content that is already gated behind several tiers of skill training.

In order to HAVE a blue sword, you already need a bunch of people. You need harvesters capable of farming blue metal and blue leather, as well as crafters capable of making high-quality blue bars and planks out of those materials. Then you need a leatherworker and a blacksmith to make the components, and probably a second blacksmith who specializes in making finished swords.

All of these 7 people need to have invested significant amounts of time in their various specialities in order to make an optimized and perfect "blue" sword, which I assume is what you're meaning when you describe one. And you're suggesting that after spending large quantities of time or money trading to get this perfect sword made by skilled crafters and harvesters all working in concert...you should then have to spend a month of your precious skill investments just to wear it?

Hoping to solve a few issues with the current iteration.

The combat trees will make veterans always better without any gear. Until crafters and harvesters start producing gear, veterans with high combat training will always have higher stats. New accounts, or accounts with low combat training, should be able to compete at the start of a campaign with basic gear. The gated gear won't matter yet, unless the import rules say other wise.

What exactly will the gated gear accomplish? If player decides he is only going to play on the outer rings then chances are that his gear quality will be lower, consistently lower. If this player decides that the purple and orange gear is just too expensive to obtain then focusing on other trees would become more appealing. Why increase the stats of something you're not going to have anyways? Once you've unlocked the gate, it's a done deal. You'll always have access to the gear and can then train something else. It could help players benchmark their training, which would then allow them to try new activities, while possibly creating fun.

What's the point of the work that went into it, then? Why not just remove the crafting prerequisites and make someone who invests heavily into swinging swords better hit harder with any sword, like they already did?

A low skill crafter is probably going to think making low quality gear is worthless. Low quality is going to be competing with high quality. It will hopefully keep a low skill crafter interested in playing the game further.

Nope

The gate to better gear is through the campaign worlds you willing to enter. If you want the best stuff, go to the dregs. That is a MUCH better gate than, "wait arbitrary length of time".

They switched the pick upgrades in the ore line from the resource type to effective penetration for all.

I suspect that they are going to do the exact same thing with vessels, and strip out the "train to equip" lines and replace with some sort of across the board buff.

There will still be a quality of tools. The recipe doesn't reflect that yet.

The difference between vessels and other gear is that white quality vessels are available for free. Imagine a new player entering a Dregs campaign. He doesn't have any of the gear levels trained yet and all of the harvesting nodes are dropping green or better. I guess that player can use basic weapons and armor. He might be able to craft an advanced weapon using slag. In either case, that player will be at a severe disadvantage to those who have already trained for higher quality gear.

As others said, I don't think there needs to be any more gates on gear.

The stat increases later on in the trees should be tied to a high quality item. This way a new player can compete with low or no gear. Conceding the gear gate idea for this.

Two players have basic gear, one is a month old while another is a year old. The year old player will have better stats. If stats were instead tied to the quality of gear, the year old player couldn't utilize his years worth of training until later stages of gear.

Once both are in purple(ignoring the gated gear,) then the year old player will pull ahead. At this point though the two players will probably be fighting a group where the differences in stats will matter even less.

My personal view on vessels: don't ban any unless researched. I think vessels tree is similar to combat in some way but provides more general stats. I don't think it is good to have two similar trees. The outcome could be wrecked progress of players who are not able to plan very deeply. They could be switching among several trees and have no progress in any.

What should be done is that vessel quality gate should be shifted into the Archtype training. The vessel tree is probably one the best increases in stats and is in the second tier of exploration. Still a white quality vessel should be able to compete with legendary vessels in group fights.

Necromancers will have to decide where to best use his materials. If disciplines are bound to a vessel then this will make it difficult to predict what other players will want. A legendary basic vessel or a legendary disciplined vessel? One might sell faster than another, now disciplines might be side lined because they're too special. (Requires more training.)

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

It seems like your entire argument hinges on the idea that someone who just started should be able to compete with a veteran. And by "it seems like," I mean you literally said that twice in the post above this one. Maybe more - my eyes have kind of glossed over from a lack of caffeine, so I may have missed some stuff.

But...that is not an accurate baseline. Devs have flat-out said that that exact situation is not a goal for them. The way they plan to bridge the gap between new players and veterans is with a catchup mechanic. They've said time and time again that it is a relatively minor issue with many solutions that we will deal with if it actually comes up in a way that reflects the reality of the time. "That is a problem for future Blair and future Todd," to quote them directly.

However, what you are proposing doesn't solve any problems that already exist, adds new problems that currently don't exist, and makes the system currently in place slower than it already is without adding any tangible benefits for the extra work. It also doesn't do anything to address the imbalance between a new player and a veteran, even if that were a problem that the developers were trying to solve. In point of fact, it actually widens the gap between new players and veterans, because now not only do they face the exact same issues that veterans face when it comes to GETTING top-tier gear, but they can't wear it if they DO. This makes the problem worse, not better.

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

It seems like your entire argument hinges on the idea that someone who just started should be able to compete with a veteran. And by "it seems like," I mean you literally said that twice in the post above this one. Maybe more - my eyes have kind of glossed over from a lack of caffeine, so I may have missed some stuff.

But...that is not an accurate baseline. Devs have flat-out said that that exact situation is not a goal for them. The way they plan to bridge the gap between new players and veterans is with a catchup mechanic. They've said time and time again that it is a relatively minor issue with many solutions that we will deal with if it actually comes up in a way that reflects the reality of the time. "That is a problem for future Blair and future Todd," to quote them directly.

However, what you are proposing doesn't solve any problems that already exist, adds new problems that currently don't exist, and makes the system currently in place slower than it already is without adding any tangible benefits for the extra work. It also doesn't do anything to address the imbalance between a new player and a veteran, even if that were a problem that the developers were trying to solve. In point of fact, it actually widens the gap between new players and veterans, because now not only do they face the exact same issues that veterans face when it comes to GETTING top-tier gear, but they can't wear it if they DO. This makes the problem worse, not better.

The devs have also said they want to keep "must have the best" mentality curbed. After the battle lines have been drawn, then the gap will be wider. Except if there isn't epic, or legendary resources. If both players have blue equipment and both have blue training, then the veterans purple training won't help him.

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

The devs have also said they want to keep "must have the best" mentality curbed. After the battle lines have been drawn, then the gap will be wider. Except if there isn't epic, or legendary resources. If both players have blue equipment and both have blue training, then the veterans purple training won't help him.

...so then what purpose does it serve?

It doesn't give anyone an advantage that they don't already have from something else, and the only people who are impacted by it in any way at all are newer players. How does that help balance the playing field?

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

It doesn't give anyone an advantage that they don't already have from something else, and the only people who are impacted by it in any way at all are newer players. How does that help balance the playing field?

It would lower the skills points required to be THE BEST in certain instances, typically at the start off a campaign with strict import rules.

In contrast, a campaign with more lenient import rules, a veteran player might have his best gear broken. The veteran player has run out of epic gear so now must use gear crafted from that campaign. Now he has less advantage due to the highest capable resources only producing blues.

Once players realize this, if they're only interested in campaigns with blue resources, and then after they have trained blue equipment, they could then focus on other skills. (Why not?)

Edited February 2, 2017 by Impossum

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

Instead of preventing the use they could just make it give a stat bonus say 5=10% stats on equipment tier they are skill in and probaly put it on the exploration side or even the class archtype section.

Veeshan Midst of UXA

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

Frankly, that's a great question regarding all combat and AT skill training in Crowfall. Several threads have made the point that actual game play woudn't be affected if the training were removed entirely.