On Mon, 10 Sep 2001 15:27:34 GMT, [email protected] (Keith Henson)
wrote:
(to page 151)
1 Okay. Based upon that the Court is going to exclude
2 items 10 and 11 from -
3 MR. SCHWARZ: You mean 11 and 12, your Honor?
4 THE COURT: 11 and 12. Did I say 10 and 11?
5 MR. SCHWARZ: Yes, your Honor.
6 THE COURT: 11 and 12.
7 Okay. Now, anything else? You're still wondering
8 about Mombo Chicken, I take it; is that correct?
9 MR. SCHWARZ: Yes, your Honor.
10 THE COURT: But I'm going to reserve on that. I'm
11 going to read the evidence and see what I'm going to do about
12 that, because I don't know the context in which that's
13 included in the evidence. So as soon as I read it I will give
14 you my decision.
15 MR. HARR: Your Honor, could I please ask a question
16 regarding the 789 issue?
17 THE COURT: Yes.
18 MR. HARR: It's my understanding that you've
19 indicated there won't be any reference to fair game.
20 THE COURT: That's right.
21 MR. HARR: But that there was still a pending issue
22 on 789, and if I could please ask what that issue is.
23 THE COURT: No, I think it's already over, Counsel.
24 The Court is not going to receive any evidence on the fair
25 game doctrine. I think that it -- it so falls within the
26 purview of 352 that nothing else need be considered. I don't
27 think it's a question of 789 anymore. I think it's a question
28 to attack the credibility, and to go down that road I think is
101 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 going to -- is going to be unhelpful, and injurious, and
2 prejudicial to witnesses that may or may not agree with that
3 doctrine. We have no way of knowing, and I don't want to find
4 out. I don't want to plow that ground.
5 I think your client wants to communicate with you.
6 MR. HARR: In the context of the fair game doctrine
7 I understand that that -- that's out. And not trying to be
8 impertinent here, but -
9 THE COURT: Mr. Harr, I don't know you to be an
10 impertinent person, so the Court doesn't take it impertinent.
11 I'll tell you when I think you're being impertinent.
12 MR. HARR: The -- there are other -- I take it any
13 other aspects of -- well, while they're not actually fair
14 game, they might be the same but related; those would be off
15 as well?
16 THE COURT: I'm not sure -
17 MR. HARR: Training, routine lying, acceptable
18 truth, these kind of things. These concepts we believe exist.
19 They're not actually called fair game, but they are other
20 issues we can at least inquire of the witnesses there about,
21 you know, have they engaged in any kind of activity like this.
22 I can't ask them if they know it or anything like that, but
23 can I ask them if they've engaged in anything like that?
24 THE COURT: A rose by any other name, Counsel, still
25 smells.
26 MR. HARR: Yes, your Honor.
27 THE COURT: Okay?
28 MR. HARR: Yes, your Honor.
102 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 MR. SCHWARZ: Your Honor.
2 THE COURT: Yes, Counsel?
3 MR. SCHWARZ: The last matter that the People would
4 like to respectfully request, since the Court has ruled that
5 fair game and all of its -- in any of its forms is not to be
6 addressed by Counsel or brought up by the People, has the
7 Court -- has the Court reconsidered with respect to, given the
8 fact that I'm sure the Court has now looked at all of the
9 documents and seen that they're replete with references to the
10 Church of Scientology and this is -- Count Three is a hate
11 crime, the simple mention of the fact of their membership I am
12 assuming is okay as long as the People do not engage in any -
13 THE COURT: Yes, you ask them their belief.
14 MR. SCHWARZ: Then we open the door.
15 THE COURT: That's right.
16 MR. SCHWARZ: I understand, your Honor. Thank you,
17 your Honor.
18 THE COURT: Is there anything else?
19 MR. HARR: So the mere mention that they belong to
20 the Church of Scientology would be an acceptable
21 not-opening-the-door type of thing?
22 THE COURT: That's correct.
23 MR. HARR: But if they go into something beyond that
24 -- thank you.
25 MR. SCHWARZ: Thank you, your Honor.
26 THE COURT: Anything else?
27 MR. SCHWARZ: No, your Honor.
28 MR. HARR: When are we to be back in court, your
103 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 Honor?
2 THE COURT: Okay. Since there's nothing else, and I
3 reserve -- I originally said that I had something to do
4 Thursday morning, but I was incorrect. It was Wednesday.
5 It's Wednesday morning instead. I've called the jury for 9:00
6 o'clock Thursday morning. Now, let me -- this trial is not
7 going to take very long; am I correct?
8 MR. SCHWARZ: No, not now that the Court has ruled
9 with respect to fair game. It should be fairly quick, your
10 Honor.
11 THE COURT: All right. Then what I want Counsel to
12 do for the Court, please, is to -- I want you both to work on
13 -- start working on jury instructions.
14 MR. SCHWARZ: Okay.
15 THE COURT: And I want those to be submitted -
16 first of all, I want some voir dire questions for the jury.
17 MR. SCHWARZ: Your Honor, that's another matter. I
18 apologize. I've given a copy -- we had, given the fact that
19 speed and convenience of the Court are at issue here, given
20 this is the arraignment calendar court -
21 THE COURT: I don't mind. 22 MR. SCHWARZ: Not that you mind -
23 THE COURT: Let me explain something to you,
24 Counsel.
25 MR. SCHWARZ: Yes.
26 THE COURT: This Court is here to conduct as fair a
27 trial as we can. To that extent, to that extent, if it takes
28 you longer than we wanted it to, then we expect it to so be
104 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 it. I think that to do less would be to deprive the parties,
2 both the People and the defendant, of their right to a fair
3 trial. So don't worry about this Court being an arraignment
4 court. The matter has already been resolved with the use of
5 other judicial assistants.
6 MR. SCHWARZ: I meant no disrespect to the Court.
7 THE COURT: I didn't think you meant disrespect.
8 MR. SCHWARZ: I had approached Counsel about the
9 possibility of using a jury questionnaire. And given the fact
10 that there are volatile feelings with respect to this -- to
11 even the mention of Scientology one way or the other, some
12 people are Tom Cruise crazy and some people are not. And we
13 would ask respectfully, or at least the People would, I don't
14 know, did you give any consideration to that?
15 MR. HARR: I read it. The longer form that you gave
16 me for the little time that I had to dedicate to it didn't
17 seem like a problem. The shorter one, I wanted to look at
18 that a little more closely. I don't know if they were to be
19 used in conjunction with each other.
20 MR. SCHWARZ: No -
21 THE COURT: I don't know what you folks are talking
22 about.
23 MR. SCHWARZ: I'll explain for the Court. My
24 apologies again.
25 Yesterday I went to Counsel's office and we had
26 discussed the possibility of using a jury questionnaire so
27 that we could print it out and have them, when they go to the
28 juryroom, they can fill it out. And Counsel seemed amenable
105 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 to that just with respect to the questions. So I was asking
2 Counsel whether or not he is still amenable to that, and if
3 the Court would indulge the parties if we both agreed a jury
4 questionnaire is probably the way to go.
5 THE COURT: If you'll stipulate I have no problem
6 with that. I want to see the questions.
7 MR. SCHWARZ: Oh, of course. Of course, your Honor.
8 Yeah, the People would provide a copy.
9 THE COURT: I don't want to get into a lengthy -
10 MR. SCHWARZ: No.
11 THE COURT: Also, let me remind you, Counsel, so you
12 understand, I'll conduct the voir dire. I will give each of
13 you ten minutes with the jurors. And we will use 24, with
14 them in the front row there as well. You'll be able to
15 conduct voir dire of the first 12, and then the next 12.
16 Okay?
17 MR. HARR: Your Honor, did you say you were going to
18 conduct the initial questioning?
19 THE COURT: Yes. And then I'll give you ten minutes
20 each. And we'll go from there. So we should be able to
21 select a jury by Thursday morning.
22 MR. HARR: Mr. Henson just indicated, and we've
23 discussed this over the course of weeks, that he at this point
24 would be willing to waive a jury trial if the People are
25 willing to do that.
26 MR. SCHWARZ: Your Honor, as the Court's well aware,
27 I actually answer to someone, and some decisions are not mine.
28 I would have to confront my supervisor with that question.
106 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 THE COURT: Okay. Why don't you do that.
2 MR. SCHWARZ: I will do that. Unfortunately, my
3 boss is in a murder trial in Riverside. And I will try to get
4 in contact with him prior to -- maybe I can inform the clerk
5 as to how we are going to proceed before the jury is called,
6 of course.
7 THE COURT: Well, you know, I don't want to call a
8 jury if they don't have to come. It's bad enough to get a
9 jury when we've got a trial, let alone we get them down here
10 and cut them loose. They're not going to be very happy.
11 MR. SCHWARZ: I'm fairly certain, though, that my
12 boss is going to say no, we will want to proceed on a jury
13 trial. And we should probably -
14 THE COURT: I think, Mr. Harr, you pretty much have
15 your answer. But if it's possible will you get back to us
16 today?
17 MR. SCHWARZ: Absolutely, yes.
18 THE COURT: At the very latest tomorrow. I will be
19 here tomorrow afternoon, so you can call the clerk and she'll
20 get to me.
21 Is there anything else we have to take up? Because
22 Counsel, we will start at 9:00 o'clock on Thursday morning,
23 and we will go every day until 4:30. I will not go past 4:30
24 unless we are in the middle of testimony which is almost
25 concluded, in which case I will inquire of the jury whether
26 they want to stay another few minutes or not. That's the
27 custom that this Court has. And I think that the -- that the
28 jurors work hard enough and we ask enough of them so that they
107 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 can leave at 4:30. They have kids to pick up and shopping to
2 do, so that's my schedule. And we will take a recess at 10:00
3 o'clock until 10:15, maybe 10:20, because it's always hard to
4 get people back in here. We'll take one at 3:00 o'clock until
5 3:15 or closest to that. That's the way we'll run it.
6 Now, I also have to tell you something else. The
7 Court will be dark on Monday. So I want you to keep that in
8 mind.
9 MR. SCHWARZ: Thank you, your Honor.
10 THE CLERK: Your Honor, did we address Exhibit 4?
11 THE COURT: What is Exhibit 4?
12 MR. HARR: I don't have 3, 4 or 5. I must have
13 missed it somewhere.
14 THE COURT: Those are the deposition transcripts.
15 MR. HARR: So those aren't going to be introduced;
16 right?
17 MR. SCHWARZ: No. Those were -- the purpose of the
18 deposition transcripts was simply for authenticity and
19 possible cross-examination, your Honor, but not to be given to
20 the jury.
21 THE COURT: Right. They won't be received.
22 All right, Counsel. Thank you very much.
23 MR. SCHWARZ: Thank you, your Honor, for your
24 patience.
25 THE COURT: Court's adjourned.
26 (Proceedings adjourned.)
27 -000
28
108 Amanda M. Fa an C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 HEMET, CALIFORNIA - THURSDAY, APRIL 19, 2001
2 AFTERNOON SESSION
3 (Jury voir dire conducted on the record, not herein
4 transcribed.)
5 (The following proceedings were held outside of the
6 presence of the jury.)
7 THE COURT: To those visitors who were earlier
8 excluded from the courtroom, let me extend the Court's
9 apologies. The Court did not realize -- we only had room for
10 55 people in here. That's why the deputy originally -- the
11 deputy took it on his own to bar you from the court. That is
12 not the intention of this Court. He was in error, and I
13 apologize because it's my court. The only reason we did not
14 have you in here is because of seating as opposed to trying to
15 limit your access to this court. So with that we have an
16 afternoon recess. We are going to begin the trial at 3:00
17 o'clock. And again, I extend my apologies.
18 MR. SCHWARZ: 3:15 or 3:00 o'clock?
19 THE COURT: 3:15, I'm sorry.
20 MR. SCHWARZ: Thank you, your Honor.
21 THE COURT: If you want to, you can go out and take
22 a break. You've been here a long time, so you can take a
23 break.
24 Is there anything, Counsel? I don't want to take
25 anything up at 3:15, I want to take it up now before -
26 MR. SCHWARZ: The only thing that the People would
27 ask is with respect to opening statements, is there a time
28 limit His Honor has for the People, or just -
109 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 THE COURT: I mean, it's your case. It's not mine.
2 MR. SCHWARZ: Some Courts, your Honor, give 15
3 minutes, some give half an hour. I'm just asking the Court's
4 -
5 THE COURT: You can just bore the jury to death if
6 you take more than half an hour.
7 MR. SCHWARZ: I agree, just for example. Thank you,
8 your Honor.
9 THE COURT: You're ready to put on testimony this
10 afternoon?
11 MR. SCHWARZ: I am ready to put on testimony this
12 afternoon if the Court will allow me to go get my additional
13 exhibits. Thank you. Got 15 minutes. I'd better run.
14 (Recess taken.)
15 (The following proceedings were held in open court
16 in the presence of the jury.)
17 THE COURT: Okay. Let me start out by -- before we
18 hear from the attorneys let me tell you a couple of things.
19 First of all, have you received notebooks?
20 JURY: No, your Honor.
21 THE COURT: Would you pass out the notebooks,
22 please.
23 We'll be passing out notebooks shortly. They're
24 there for your use or not, as you prefer. You can take notes.
25 Some people like to take notes during the proceedings. And
26 other people just prefer to sit back and listen to the
27 testimony. You are free to do either one. The only thing we
28 do is ask you if you're going to listen, sit back and listen,
110 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 please don't close your eyes, because that might indicate
2 you're doing something more than listening.
3 During the course of the trial we will take several
4 recesses. We will usually adjourn at 4:30, we'll start in the
5 morning at 9:00. We'll take a recess at 10:30, reconvene at
6 10:45 and go until noon, and then 1:30 until 3:00, and so
7 forth until the trial is over.
8 Some of you may believe that you have a question
9 that is important for you to know the answer to. And what
10 we'd like you to do is to on a piece of paper in your notebook)
11 you can make a note of that question, and then on a recess
12 give it to the bailiff. The bailiff will give it to the
13 Court, and the Court and Counsel will discuss it. And if it
14 is what we deem to be a relevant question, it will be asked.
15 It may not be asked in the form that you've put it. But if we
16 deem that it's necessary and relevant, it will be asked in one
17 form or another. So that's one of the things we ask you to
18 do.
19 If you can't hear, please raise your right hand and
20 tell us you can't hear. Sometimes people don't speak into the
21 microphone, or they speak softly, or someone has a
22 particularly difficult problem in hearing certain voices. The
23 air conditioning, sometimes I don't hear very well at all. So
24 we are not averse to raising your hand and saying that you
25 can't hear.
26 There's no reason for any of you to, unless you're
27 sick, please don't ask to leave during the session unless
28 there's some special reason. If there is an urgency, of
111 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 course, we will take a court recess. But try to take care of
2 everything during the recesses.
3 You've all heard about -- on television about
4 reasonable doubt. Sometimes they put it "shadow of a doubt,"
5 sometimes they put it "beyond all doubt." The fact is, it is
6 reasonable doubt. And reasonable doubt, because it is so
7 important, is defined in a very particular way. And I will
8 read you the legal definition of reasonable doubt.
9 A defendant in a criminal action is presumed to be
10 innocent until the contrary is proved. And in the case of a
11 reasonable doubt whether the defendant's guilt is
12 satisfactorily shown, the defendant is entitled to an
13 aquittal. The effect of this presumption is only to place
14 upon the prosecution the burden of proving the defendant
15 guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
16 Reasonable doubt is defined as follows: It is not a
17 mere possible doubt, because everything relating to human
18 affairs is open to some possible or imaginary doubt. It is
19 that state of the case which after an entire comparison and
20 consideration of all of the evidence leaves the mind of the
21 jurors in a condition that they cannot say they feel an
22 abiding conviction of the truth of the charge. If you have a
23 reasonable doubt as to the defendant's guilt, the defendant is
24 entitled to a verdict of not guilty. The People must prove
25 the charges beyond a reasonable doubt.
26 I can't explain it any more than that. That's the
27 legal definition, and that's the one that you will be given at
28 the close of the proceedings, I'll read it to you again.
112 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 Okay. As I told you earlier, the attorneys are
2 going to take a very active part of this trial, in this trial.
3 And -- however, what they say is not evidence. The only
4 evidence that you will be given will come from this witness
5 stand or from various documents that you might be given. So
6 please, we ask you to listen to the attorneys, because as I
7 told you, they will provide you with a road map; however, what
8 they have to say is not evidence.
9 With that I'll ask Counsel to give an opening
10 statement.
11 MR. SCHWARZ: Yes, your Honor. Thank you.
12 Hello again. Again, my name is Robert, and I'm with
13 the Deputy District Attorney's Office. In effect, I represent
14 the People of the State of California, and it is my privilege
15 to do so.
16 In this case His Honor mentioned three charges which
17 the defendant, Mr. Henson, is accused of. The first one was
18 essentially making threatening statements causing the other
19 person to be in fear of him. The second charge is an attempt
20 to do that, making threatening statements and maybe not
21 accomplishing them. And the last one is what's charged as,
22 under the Penal Code as 422.6, and essentially what that
23 charge is, is a making -- or preventing someone a
24 constitutional right by either force or threat of force.
25 So in effect what we're dealing with is, in this
26 case, that constitutional right is freedom of religion. And
27 Mr. Henson -
28 THE COURT: I'm sorry, Counsel, I didn't hear what
113 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 you said.
2 MR. SCHWARZ: Freedom of religion, your Honor.
3 And in this particular case Mr. Henson is accused of
4 basically trying to dissuade the victims from being able to
5 practice their religion in the way that they want.
6 Now, as His Honor has indicated, this is opening
7 statements. And he noted to you that what I say or what
8 Mr. Harr says, should he choose to in fact make an opening
9 statement, is not evidence. So your question probably is
10 this: "Then why are you talking to me?" Well, the reason why
11 is, essentially, I'm allowed to give you a road map about what
12 I intend to present. There's only a couple of times that I'm
13 actually able to talk to you directly. Once when I talked to
14 you directly in voir dire, once in opening statement, and once
15 in closing arguments, those are the only times I'm allowed to
16 talk to you like right now, one-on-one.
17 Now, with respect to opening statements, the -- I
18 want you to imagine that this trial, what you're in right now,
19 a trial is a lot like a jigsaw puzzle. Now, you -- I don't
20 know if you've actually used a jigsaw puzzle, but I'm sure all
21 of you have heard one or at least tried to put one together.
22 I can't do it, I get too frustrated. But a trial is much like
23 that. And what happens during the course of a trial is you
24 will get pieces of evidence, and they will be like the pieces
25 of a jigsaw puzzle. And what you will do is you will get
26 pieces of them, and it's your job to put them together.
27 Now, unfortunately, the pieces don't come neatly
28 labeled. They won't say what the relevance is, what relevance
114 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 it has, or how important it is, or -- and I can't stop to tell
2 you. And neither can Mr. Harr. All we can do is give them to
3 you and allow you to put them together.
4 Now, unlike a jigsaw puzzle that you would buy from
5 Wal-Mart or something else right off the shelf, not all the
6 pieces will fit together. In fact, you may have pieces
7 missing, or at least you think so. Or you might have pieces
8 left over. And you will think to yourself, "Well, what is
9 this?" Well, that's when your common knowledge, your
10 education, or your experience comes into play. That's why we
11 have juries. So as you put the pieces together just like in a
12 real jigsaw puzzle, let's say it's a mountain, you put it
13 together and there it is. And that is how a trial works
14 essentially.
15 In this particular case you will hear evidence that
16 I will put on. I get to go first. It is my burden. And
17 essentially what will happen is I will call up witnesses and,
18 like a jigsaw puzzle, it may not be in the order that you may
19 think. So there may be a piece here, and you think maybe we
20 should start from the center, or from the outside, and you
21 would hope in some cases, you would like a chronological order
22 about how things go. Much like a movie. You want to know how
23 it starts and at the end. But like a movie they don't
24 actually film in sequence. Sometimes they'll have to film on
25 location, and that's what they have to do. They will film in
26 New Zealand because that's the contract they have, although
27 that came at the end of the movie. That's how it works.
28 Well, sometimes in a trial I am unable to get the witnesses
115 Amanda M. Fa an C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 for whatever reason. You may hear one piece, you might have
2 to tuck that away and then save it, and then it will become
3 abundantly clear. So please don't become frustrated if that
4 becomes the case.
5 Now, you're wondering to yourself what -- what is
6 the evidence that I'm going to present? Well, the People are
7 going to present to you the fact that Mr. Henson, who does not
8 live in the valley, comes from Palo Alto, and has a
9 long-standing hatred for the Church of Scientology. Now, we
10 mentioned the Church of Scientology, and that may raise some
11 biases. And that's why we tried to weed them out during voir
12 dire.
13 Now, these -- the -- Mr. Henson comes down, and he
14 has made some threatening statements. And the People will
15 show that he's done this over the internet. And furthermore,
16 he also engages in activity such as stalking and harassing the
17 people, the victims, who happen to be at the Church of
18 Scientology Golden Era. And if you don't know where that is,
19 it's off of Gilman Hot Springs Road, and you will learn that
20 if you don't know.
21 Now, the first person that you will hear from is a
22 person by the name of Frank Petty. And what will he tell you?
23 Essentially what he is going to tell you is one of the things
24 that Mr. Henson did was he was walking along, and he was
25 carrying a sign, but he did that in concert with some other
26 people. And what happened was some of the -- one of the
27 persons that he was with in concert was taking G.P.S.
28 coordinates of the various buildings. Now, that alone isn't
116 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 much. But in concert with a lot of other information, you
2 will find out that Mr. Henson by his own admissions is
3 actually an explosives expert. We're not -- we're not talking
4 here just run-of-the-mill, average Joe, just like you and me,
5 but has the knowledge and the capability to actually build
6 explosives, and in fact has done so in the past. You will
7 also find out that Mr. Henson has a patent how to launch
8 missiles. You will also find out that Mr. Henson has the
9 ability to -
10 THE COURT: Wait a minute, Counsel. Approach along
11 with the reporter.
12 (The following proceedings were held at sidebar.)
13 THE COURT: Counsel, remind the Court, where is
14 there proof that Mr. Henson knows how to launch missiles?
15 MR. SCHWARZ: The People never presented that -
16 MR. HARR: There isn't any.
17 MR. SCHWARZ: -- before the Court. And it's -- I'm
18 going to present it with testimony, your Honor.
19 THE COURT: From whom?
20 MR. SCHWARZ: From Mr. Henson's own words, your
21 Honor, from an admission he made to other people. It never
22 came up before your Honor because I never had to tell you my
23 entire case. I'm only dealing with the documents.
24 THE COURT: Well, if that's -- if that's not part of
25 the -- did you know about this, Counsel?
26 MR. HARR: I know that there is a patent Mr. Henson
27 -
28 THE COURT: There is a what?
117 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 MR. HARR: There is a patent that Mr. Henson has on
2 delivering a payload to outer space. But he doesn't know
3 anything about launching missiles to my knowledge. I haven't
4 seen any evidence of that.
5 THE COURT: Where does this information come from?
6 MR. SCHWARZ: From the patent office, your Honor. I
7 have a certified copy of his patent.
8 THE COURT: Oh, patent office. And what is the
9 patent for?
10 MR. SCHWARZ: The patent is for, your Honor,
11 delivering a payload.
12 MR. HARR: To outer space.
13 MR. SCHWARZ: Yes. Nevertheless, I will show you
14 the patent if you like. It's a missile being pulled along by
15 an airplane, your Honor. I'm surprised the Court is inquiring
16 at this time. If I don't make my case then I don't make it.
17 THE COURT: Well, I understand, but I just don't
18 want you to go outside the facts as the Court understands
19 them.
20 MR. SCHWARZ: I haven't explained the Court all the
21 facts.
22 THE COURT: All right. Okay.
23 MR. SCHWARZ: Thank you, your Honor.
24 (The following proceedings were held in open court
25 in the presence of the jury.)
26 THE COURT: Go ahead, Counsel.
27 MR. SCHWARZ: Thank you. Furthermore, the People
28 intend to present evidence by -- you will hear two police
118 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 officers who in fact interviewed Mr. Henson. And they will
2 give you -- and they will tell you vicariously through -
3 through the officers what Mr. Henson said to them. You will
4 hear terms like, "He's waging psychological warfare on the
5 Scientologists." You will hear that he admits to even owning
6 a cannon.
7 These are the things that the evidence will present.
8 They will paint a picture of a person that has not only
9 ability to make incendiary devices, but in fact has the
10 anamice, the hatred, and the motive to do so. This is the
11 case that the People intend to present.
12 Now, unlike most cases that I've dealt with and my
13 colleagues have dealt with, usually what you'll have is a very
14 contested issue, there will be, "I said, he said, she said,"
15 it's black, it's white, there will be a lot of contested
16 testimony. But in this case there won't be a lot of contested
17 testimony, because many of the statements, and you will see
18 some internet postings, they're all authored by Mr. Henson.
19 In effect, he is actually admitting to all of this stuff. So
20 the People's case is basically generated on Mr. Henson's
21 conduct and his own admissions.
22 There are other things that you will hear as well.
23 You will hear other evidence of harassment, such as you will
24 hear evidence of harassment which -- as you may have heard
25 before during jury voir dire.
26 The Scientologists don't all live at Golden Era.
27 Some of them have apartments either in Hemet, and they take
28 buses back and forth to Golden Era. And what Mr. Henson has
119 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 done, he chases them, gets in front of their face, and does
2 all sorts of things. And I will let them explain that to you.
3 I'm talking about the witnesses, for the record.
4 The most important thing to realize is this:
5 During the course of this trial, whether you like the
6 Scientologists, don't like them, believe in their religion,
7 don't believe in it, doesn't really matter. Whether you're
8 Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, doesn't matter. All that matters is
9 in this country we're allowed the choice to believe whatever
10 we want to believe. And we should have the ability to be able
11 to worship whichever God or no God and do it peacefully. And
12 this is our case.
13 And so I want to make a contract with you at the end
14 of this case. And the contract goes like this. If I prove
15 the elements of the crime, and I show what I said I was going
16 to show, at the end of this case I want you to do your end of
17 the bargain, which is to find Mr. Henson guilty as charged.
18 Thank you.
19 THE COURT: Mr. Harr?
20 MR. HARR: Thank you, your Honor.
21 Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Although I
22 don't have to do anything as an attorney as far as presenting
23 evidence on behalf of Mr. Henson, I do have the opportunity to
24 at least explain what I believe the evidence will show.
25 As the judge will undoubtedly -- well, has indicated
26 to you, the defendant is presumed to be not guilty. And in
27 this case the other opening statement mentioned such terms as
28 stalking and harassment, and that the defendant hates people
120 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 because of their religion, basically, or wants to impede their
2 ability to practice their religion the way they want to.
3 That's not what this case is about.
4 The one word that Mr. Schwarz didn't mention, or I
5 should say two words, "First Amendment." First Amendment of
6 the United States gives people broad leeway to say things.
7 You may have watched on the news people saying things on -- in
8 picket lines. Mr. Henson is a picketer. Mr. Henson has been
9 a picketer for years. Mr. Henson has been picketing
10 Scientology since probably at least 1998 and perhaps before
11 then. We'll see where the evidence goes with that.
12 But we believe that around -- that we can show that
13 around May of last year he began picketing a little more
14 frequently. He became noticeable. He became obvious. He
15 stood out at Golden Era and was visible to everybody in the
16 world that went by Golden Era. He wasn't hiding. He's right
17 there. I believe the evidence will show that the police
18 actually went out there and observed him picketing. He's
19 standing where he can stand, he's not trespassing. He's
20 saying things that the organization of Scientology perhaps
21 does not want said, but he's saying it lawfully. You might
22 even see some of these internet postings and say, "You know
23 what, I think that's kind of obnoxious. I might not do that
24 myself." But that's not the way the First Amendment reads.
25 We have a right to free speech.
26 MR. SCHWARZ: Your Honor, may we approach?
27 Objection.
28 THE COURT: No.
121 Amanda M. Fa an C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 MR. HARR: He's standing out there with his picket
2 sign. Mr. Schwarz referred to an incident that I'm sure
3 Mr. Schwarz will present evidence on, is when Mr. Henson
4 happened to be in the same location with another gentleman
5 that had a G.P.S. item, which is a global positioning
6 something or another. But anyhow, you can tell where you are.
7 THE COURT: Counsel, please limit your opening
8 statement to what you intend to present.
9 MR. HARR: Let's take the term "stalking." Stalking
10 implies something to a person. A person can also drive a car
11 on a highway behind another vehicle. It doesn't have to be
12 stalking. It may very well not be stalking. A person has a
13 right to be on a main street in a city observing people. If
14 you are a picketer, if you are a free speech proponent, you
15 want to know what the other side does, you observe them.
16 MR. SCHWARZ: Your Honor, objection, this is
17 argument, your Honor.
18 THE COURT: I think it's getting towards argument.
19 MR. HARR: Yes, your Honor.
20 THE COURT: I'll overrule the objection.
21 MR. HARR: This case is not about Mr. Henson trying
22 to prevent somebody from practicing their religion. I believe
23 that when you look at the postings you will see a couple of
24 things that will stand out that are extremely important in
25 this case. One is, none of these postings are directed to any
26 witness in this case. None of the witnesses' names in this
27 case, I believe, will appear on any of those postings. The
28 postings were made on a news group. The statements weren't
122 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 made in the presence of any of the witnesses. This is not an
2 open and shut case. This is not a case about stalking or
3 harassment.
4 So with that, and indicating that I really don't
5 have to do anything as far as presenting evidence, it's the
6 burden of the People to do that, I'll leave this case in your
7 good hands. Thank you.
8 THE COURT: All right. Have you passed out the
9 notebooks?
10 THE DEPUTY: The notebooks have not been passed out
11 as yet, your Honor.
12 THE COURT: Would you do that now, please.
13 All right.Counsel, call your first witness.
14 MR. SCHWARZ: Thank you, your Honor. People would
15 call Frank Petty to the stand.
16 THE COURT: Would you ask Mr. Petty to come in.
17 THE DEPUTY: Yes, your Honor.
18 Mr. Petty, step through here right up to the jury
19 box and up to the witness stand, and remain standing while the
20 clerk swears you in.
21 THE CLERK: Please raise your right hand.
22 Do you solemnly state the testimony you shall give
23 in the matter now pending before this Court shall be the
24 truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you
25 God?
26 THE WITNESS: I do.
27 THE CLERK: Please be seated and state your full
28 name for the record, please.
123 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 THE WITNESS: Frank C. Petty, P-e-t-t-y.
2 THE COURT: All right, Counsel.
3 MR. SCHWARZ: Thank you, your Honor.
4 DIRECT EXAMINATION
5 BY MR. SCHWARZ:
6 Q. Good afternoon, Mr. Petty.
7 A. Good afternoon.
8 Q. Let's start with a little background information.
9 How old are you, sir?
10 A. I'm 60 years old.
11 Q. 60 years. And your education, sir?
12 A. I have a Bachelor's Degree in public service
13 management.
14 Q. And what is your present occupation, sir?
15 A. I'm a security probe for Talon. We provide security
16 for executives, personal protection.
17 Q. Is Talon a licensed agency?
18 A. Yes, private investigative agency.
19 Q. And what do you do for Talon exactly?
20 A. I provide armed protection for V.I.P.'s,
21 celebrities. It could be a violence in the work place,
22 wherever they -- that's needed.
23 Q. And before working for Talon -- excuse me. How long
24 have you worked for Talon?
25 A. I've worked for Talon for about five years.
26 Q. And before Talon?
27 A. Before Talon I worked for a film company in
28 Hollywood and I headed their security for five years.
124 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 Q. Thank you. How long have you been in the security
2 business?
3 A. After retiring from L.A.P.D. in 1982.
4 Q. And how long were you with L.A.P.D.?
5 A. 15 years with L.A.
6 Q. So you have roughly 20 years, 19 years of
7 experience?
8 A. Well, I was four years with two other agencies
9 before L.A., so.
10 Q. Do you have any military experience?
11 A. Yes, U.S. Army.
12 Q. Do you know Mr. Henson?
13 A. Yes, I do. I don't know him personally, but I
14 recognize him.
15 Q. Could you please point that person out and name an
16 article of clothing that he or she is wearing?
17 A. Yes. He's seated right here with the flower on the
18 lapel.
19 MR. SCHWARZ: Can the record reflect that the
20 witness has identified the defendant?
21 THE COURT: Yes. 22 MR. SCHWARZ: Thank you, your Honor.
23 Q. When did you first see Mr. Henson?
24 A. It was on the 4th of July, I believe it was, last
25 year.
26 Q. Okay. And where did you see him?
27 A. Out at Golden Era, I believe it's called, the
28 Scientology facility out in Running Springs, is it, or Gilman
125 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 Springs?
2 Q. Gilman.
3 A. Gilman Springs.
4 Q. Now, did you work directly for the Church of
5 Scientology?
6 A. No. I was hired by Talon and placed there.
7 Q. Okay. And what was your assignment there at Golden
8 Era Productions?
9 A. My assignment there was to protect the staff and the
10 property from threats of any type of violence.
11 Q. And when you got to Golden Era Productions did you
12 -- where did you see the defendant?
13 A. I first saw the defendant walking along the highway
14 with the picket sign.
15 Q. Okay. Was he alone?
16 A. The first time I saw him, yes, he was.
17 Q. And the second time?
18 A. Eventually he was joined by two other people, a man
19 and a woman.
20 Q. Okay. And do you know their names?
21 A. I believe the gentleman's name was Rice, and the
22 female, I think her name was Rore. I don't recall. Barbara
23 Wore, I think.
24 Q. Are you familiar with something called a G.P.S.?
25 A. Yes, uh-huh.
26 Q. And what is a G.P.S.?
27 A. It's a global positioning system. It's for
28 determining where you are on the -- on a map or on the globe,
126 Amanda M. Fa an C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 your exact position.
2 Q. Okay. And did you see the defendant with a G.P.S.?
3 A. I think the other gentleman had the G.P.S. I saw
4 him -
5 THE COURT: Excuse me.
6 THE WITNESS: Yes.
7 THE COURT: The question was, did you see Mr. Henson
8 with the G.P.S.?
9 THE WITNESS: Oh, no.
10 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): Who had the G.P.S.?
11 A. To my recollection I believe it was Mr. Rice.
12 Q. Okay. And you testified earlier that they were
13 together?
14 A. Yes, uh-huh.
15 Q. Okay. How far away were you to these group -- to
16 this group?
17 A. As close as five feet, generally tried to keep a
18 distance of maybe 15, 20 feet.
19 Q. Okay. And how long were you in contact with the -
20 these individuals?
21 A. For about seven hours.
22 Q. Now, were you close enough to hear them speaking?
23 A. Yes, uh-huh.
24 Q. Now, with the G.P.S., what were they doing with it?
25 A. They would look -
26 THE COURT: Excuse me, Counsel. You said "they."
27 Who do you mean, "they"?
28 MR. SCHWARZ: Mr. Henson -- Mr. Rice and -- Mr. Rice
127 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 in concert or with Mr. Henson.
2 MR. HARR: Objection, your Honor, no foundation that
3 they were -
4 THE COURT: Sustained.
5 MR. HARR: -- in concert.
6 MR. SCHWARZ: Okay.
7 Q. When you observed Mr. Rice with a G.P.S., was
8 Mr. Henson present at the same time?
9 A. Yes, he was.
10 Q. What was Mr. Rice doing with the G.P.S.?
11 A. He appeared to be taking readings.
12 Q. Okay. And was -- from what you saw was Mr. Henson
13 participating in this event?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Now, when you were close enough to them can you tell
16 us what they were talking about?
17 A. I don't remember specifically -
18 MR. HARR: Objection, your Honor, hearsay.
19 MR. SCHWARZ: Admission by party opponent, your
20 Honor.
21 THE WITNESS: I don't remember the specific words -
22 THE COURT: Excuse me. I'll overrule the objection.
23 You can answer it.
24 THE WITNESS: I don't recall the exact words, just
25 that they were conferring -
26 THE COURT: You've answered the question, sir.
27 MR. SCHWARZ: Okay.
28 Q. Can you tell us the gist of what they were saying?
128 Amanda M. Fa an C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 A. No, I can't.
2 Q. Okay. Now, did you ever have an occasion to
3 actually speak with Mr. Henson, the defendant?
4 A. Yes, uh-huh.
5 Q. And what, if anything, did Mr. Henson say?
6 MR. HARR: Objection, your Honor, relevancy,
7 hearsay.
8 THE COURT: Overruled.
9 THE WITNESS: I believe we discussed his former
10 occupation or current occupation, his background.
11 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): And what was that background?
12 A. I believe he said it was computer science and
13 guidance systems technology.
14 Q. Now, when you saw the three individuals walking
15 along, the one with Mr. Rice with the G.P.S., you testified
16 earlier that they were together, was anybody taking down any
17 notes?
18 A. Yes. There was some notations being taken. I don't
19 recall who -- who was actually doing it. I just -- I was more
20 concerned with -
21 THE COURT: I'm sorry, Mr. Petty, would you speak
22 up, please?
23 THE WITNESS: Yes. I did not recall exactly who was
24 taking -- just -- they would just confer, and it looked like
25 they were taking readings, and then they would write it down
26 on the pad. I can't remember exactly who was doing what.
27 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): Okay. But did it appear that
28 Mr. Henson was participating in this event?
129 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. I'm going to show you a photo -- may I approach
3 Madam Clerk to mark this photo?
4 THE COURT: Would you show it to Counsel first.
5 MR. SCHWARZ: Thank you, your Honor. Thank you,
6 Madam Clerk.
7 Q. I'm showing you what's been marked as People's 27 -
8 MR. HARR: Your Honor, I'd like that not to be
9 published until I've had a chance to possibly do an objection
10 or whatever, if that's going to be shown to the jury.
11 THE COURT: All right. Approach.
12 Excuse us just a minute. You can talk to each
13 other, but not too loud.
14 (The following proceedings were held at sidebar.)
15 MR. HARK: Mr. Henson didn't post that. And I don't
16 know exactly where he's going with that, but if there is going
17 to be some testimony -
18 THE COURT: What is that?
19 MR. HARR: Those are the G.P.S. coordinates for that
20 place. And there is no way to tie Mr. Henson to that posting.
21 It has not been authenticated.
22 MR. SCHWARZ: Your Honor, that's the whole purpose
23 of allowing me to do so.
24 THE COURT: Let me see it.
25 MR. SCHWARZ: And I have an ability to be able to
26 authenticate it. It's a picture of a posting. It's a picture
27 of the guard shack. He will be able to testify that it is a
28 picture of the guard shack. And I'll ask him what those
130 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 things are, the target data, Mr. Harr -
2 MR. HARR: That is not target data. That might be
3 G.P.S. information.
4 THE COURT: No. I'm not going to let that in.
5 That's -
6 MR. SCHWARZ: Your Honor, this is -
7 MR. HARR: There is no foundation that Mr. Henson
8 had anything to do with that.
g THE COURT: Excuse me, what is your argument?
10 MR. HARR: That can't be tied to Mr. Henson. That
11 has not been authenticated as his posting. That's just
12 inflammatory, 352 if there ever was any, your Honor.
13 MR. SCHWARZ: Your Honor, this is part of our case.
14 This is the threat.
15 THE COURT: Well, Counsel, I don't care if it's part
16 of your case or not. If the Court's not going to admit it,
17 then the Court's not going to admit it.
lg MR. SCHWARZ: You're not even going to let me try to
19 lay a foundation?
20 THE COURT: Who took that picture?
21 MR. SCHWARZ: The picture was found on the internet.
22 THE COURT: No, who took this picture?
23 MR. SCHWARZ: Your Honor, as the Court is well
24 aware, I don't have to have the photographer to be able to
25 tell me who took the picture.
26 THE COURT: How do we know -
27 MR. SCHWARZ: That is an accurate description,
28 that's all -
131 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #$764 RPR
1 MR. HARR: If you want to show a picture of the
2 guard shack, go ahead.
3 THE COURT: Excuse me. You can show the guard
4 shack. I will not permit you to show that other information.
5 You can do that if you want. I will not permit, that's the
6 ruling, Court's ruling.
7 MR. HARR: Thank you, your Honor.
8 (The following proceedings were held in open court
9 in the presence of the jury.)
10 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): Mr. Petty, you indicated that you
11 were in -- in personal protection, not including L.A.P.D.
12 which is ostensibly personal protection, also, since 1982; is
13 that correct?
14 A. Yes, uh-huh.
15 Q. Now, if you had a client who had a -- someone that
16 disliked them, and they had -
17 MR. HARR: Objection, your Honor.
18 THE COURT: Sustained. Calls for conclusion. Is
19 that your objection?
20 MR. HARR: Yes, your Honor.
21 THE COURT: Sustained.
22 MR. SCHWARZ: Your Honor, I think that -- exception,
23 your Honor.
24 Q. After you interviewed the defendant or you spoke
25 with the defendant, what happened?
26 A. We just discussed his background, that type of
27 thing, and then we continued to follow him as he continued his
28 activities.
132 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 MR. SCHWARZ: Okay. I have no further questions for
2 this witness at this time.
3 THE COURT: Anything?
4 MR. HARR: No questions, your Honor.
5 THE COURT: Thank you, Mr. Petty. Thank you for
6 your testimony.
7 May this witness be excused?
8 MR. SCHWARZ: Yes, your Honor.
9 MR. HARR: Yes, your Honor.
10 THE COURT: You are excused, sir. You may leave.
11 Call your next witness, please.
12 MR. SCHWARZ: Your Honor, with respect to the next
13 witness, may we approach quickly?
14 THE COURT: Yes.
15 MR. SCHWARZ: Thank you.
16 (The following proceedings were held at sidebar.)
17 THE COURT: All right, Counsel.
18 MR. SCHWARZ: Your Honor, the next witness is going
19 to take awhile. It's going to take a couple of hours or so,
20 and it would just -- it just seems like it would be a good
21 idea, the People would suggest if it's possible to -
22 THE COURT: No, let's get going. If he's here,
23 let's get going.
24 MR. SCHWARZ: Okay.
25 (The following proceedings were held in open court
26 in the presence of the jury.)
27 MR. SCHWARZ: Your Honor, the People would next call
28 Ken Hoden, Kenneth Hoden to the stand.
133 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 THE COURT: Is he outside?
2 MR. SCHWARZ: I believe so, your Honor.
3 MR. SCHWARZ: Your Honor, may the People approach?
4 We have previously marked People's Number 26. It's a map.
5 THE COURT: Sure. 6 Good afternoon, sir. Would you come forward,
7 please.
8 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. 9 THE COURT: Would you face the clerk and
raise your
10 right hand.
11 THE CLERK: You do solemnly state the testimony you
12 shall give in the matter now pending before this Court shall
13 be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so
14 help you God?
15 THE WITNESS: Yes, I do.
16 THE CLERK: Thank you. Please be seated, and state
17 and spell your name for the record.
18 THE WITNESS: My name is Ken Hoden, H-o-d-e-n.
19 THE COURT: Thank you. Counsel.
20 MR. SCHWARZ: Thank you, your Honor.
21 DIRECT EXAMINATION
22 BY MR. SCHWARZ:
23 Q. Good afternoon, Mr. Hoden.
24 A. Good afternoon.
25 Q. Some background information, if you please. How old
26 are you, sir?
27 A. I'm 54 years old.
28 Q. And what is your education?
134 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #$764 RPR
1 A. Well, I went to school in Pennsylvania, I went to
2 Penn State, and I graduated in 1968.
3 Q. With a degree in?
4 A. Electrical engineering.
5 Q. Where do you live, sir?
6 A. I live in Hemet.
7 Q. And how long have you lived in the valley?
8 A. I've lived in the valley since 1983, except for
9 about a two or three-year period in the mid '80's when I lived
10 in Los Angeles.
11 Q. Where do you work?
12 A. I work at Golden Era Productions.
13 Q. And what is Golden Era Productions?
14 A. Golden Era Productions is a sound and film studio,
15 and we do all the religious instructional films for the
16 Churches of Scientology and the Dyanetic Centers around the
17 world.
18 Q. Now, Golden Era Productions, where is that located
19 exactly?
20 A. Well, it's on Highway 79 -- I'm trying to think of
21 the cross streets. It would be between Sanderson and State
22 Street along Highway 79.
23 Q. Is that the building, the complex with the big
24 castle?
25 A. Yeah. We have a sound film studio which is the
26 castle.
27 Q. How long have you been on staff at Golden Era?
28 A. Since late 1987.
135 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 Q. And what is your occupation there, what's your job?
2 A. I'm a general manager for Golden Era.
3 Q. As a general manager what do your duties include?
4 A. Well, the general operations of the studio, you
5 know, making sure that, you know, we produce all the films on
6 time and just the general actions of getting done what we get
7 done there at the studios.
8 Q. Is security an area or part of your job?
9 A. Yeah, that would be an area under me.
10 MR. SCHWARZ: Okay. May I approach, your Honor?
11 THE COURT: Yes.
12 MR. SCHWARZ: Can everyone see this?
13 MR. HARR: Your Honor, can I please move over here
14 to the right so I can kind of see that exhibit a little
15 better?
16 THE COURT: You can move over there. You can sit on
17 the bench there if you want to.
18 MR. SCHWARZ: Let the record reflect that the People
19 approached the witness with what's been previously marked as
20 People's Exhibit Number 26.
21 THE COURT: All right.
22 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): Mr. Hoden, can you tell me what
23 that is?
24 A. Well, that's a map of our property.
25 Q. And can you briefly describe what that map depicts
26 exactly?
27 A. Well, that's the -- the physical boundaries of our
28 property, and this -- well -
136 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 Q. Mr. Hoden, you can get up.
2 A. Okay. Well, it's just a position. Sanderson goes
3 this way, and this is, like, the mountains. And State Street
4 is -- goes down over here, and then the junior college is over
5 in this area here. And the property is bisected or cut in
6 half by Highway 79. So it comes from this way and then goes
7 over across the State Street Bridge and goes down State
8 Street. And the property is basically broken up into three
9 general areas. The far easterly side, there's a public,
10 nine-hole golf course in this particular area. And then the
11 central portion is where all the studio grounds are. And then
12 this section here is a vacant land area. And the little blue
13 boxes that are on here, these are actually buildings that are
14 on the property. And there's about 43 buildings on the
15 property. This one here looks like a castle when you drive
16 along the highway. That's actually a film studio. In other
17 words, inside it's all open, like it's a very, very large,
18 open, about four stories high, and that's where they shoot the
19 films in there, where they shoot the films. And then this is
20 a large dining hall that we have. This is a chapel, different
21 office buildings. Over here these are all different music
22 studios that we have on the grounds. And then this is the
23 main administrative building, and that's where my office is.
24 That's generally what the property is. And as I said, the
25 mountains are here, so it's generally like that.
26 Q. Thank you. You can have a seat.
27 Since the property is bisected by Highway 79 as
28 you've previously testified, how do you get from the -- what
137 Amanda M. Fagan, C.O.S.. #8764 RJR
1 would be the south portion of your property to the north
2 portion of your property?
3 A. Well, the way we do that is through two pedestrian
4 tunnels. We have one located about right here, and one
5 located right there. And years ago people used to have to run
6 across the highway. It was a little bit dangerous. So we put
7 these two tunnels in. That way you can just walk through the
8 tunnel. It's a big, wide, pedestrian tunnel. So that way if
9 you're eating on the south side and you go back to work, you
10 just go through the tunnel and go back and forth.
11 Q. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Hoden. Do you know Keith
12 Henson?
13 A. Yes, I do.
14 Q. And do you see him in the courtroom today?
15 A. Yes, I do.
16 Q. Could you please point that person out and name an
17 article of clothing that he or she is wearing?
18 A. Yes. It's that gentleman there, and I think he has
19 a blue coat on.
20 MR. SCHWARZ: Thank you. May the record reflect
21 that the witness identified the defendant?
22 THE COURT: Yes.
23 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): Given the relevant time period
24 that we're talking about in this case, starting in May, 2000,
25 when was the first time you laid eyes on Mr. Henson?
26 A. It was in late May or early June of 2000.
27 Q. And under what circumstances did you see him?
28 A. I saw him walking along the highway.
138 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 Q. Okay.
2 A. He was carrying a sign.
3 Q. And what knowledge did you have about Keith Henson
4 at that time?
5 MR. HARR: Objection, your Honor, no foundation.
6 THE COURT: Sustained.
7 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): Did you have any previous
8 knowledge about Mr. Henson?
9 A. Yes, I did.
10 Q. And did you -- and what was the nature of your
11 knowledge?
12 A. Well, I had received -
13 MR. HARR: Objection, your Honor, no foundation as
14 to what -- and relevancy.
15 THE COURT: Sustained. Sustained.
16 MR. SCHWARZ: Okay. I'll rephrase.
17 Q. Mr. Hoden, you indicated that you have some
18 knowledge about Mr. Henson; where did that knowledge come
19 from?
20 A. Well, I received a number of postings -
21 THE COURT: Excuse me, sir, where did the knowledge
22 come from?
23 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry, okay. From our church in
24 Los Angeles, our headquarters.
25 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): Okay. And what information was
26 presented to you by the church?
27 A. I had a number of postings and I had other
28 information.
139 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 Q. For the jury's benefit, what do you mean by
2 "posting"?
3 A. I'm sorry. Written materials that were put on the
4 internet, and then they were just printed off. In other
5 words, different types of -- I'm not a computer expert, but
6 just certain things where you can send e-mail to one another,
7 different people send it, and there's little news boards where
8 you can put postings, or where you can write and other people
9 can look at it and add various things to it. And a number of
10 these things were on there, and they're there for the whole
11 world to see. In other words, anybody who logs in, I guess,
12 can take a look at these things. And those were printed off
13 and sent to me, a number of those regarding Mr. Henson. There
14 was other material, other documents sent to me regarding
15 Mr. Henson.
16 Q. Now, can you be more specific? What other materials
17 did you receive?
18 A. Well, I received a book that was about -- not about
19 Mr. Henson, but talked about some of Mr. Henson's exploits.
20 Q. Can you tell me the name of that book?
21 A. If I can remember the name of it. It was the Mumbo
22 -- Mambo Chicken and the Transhuman Condition, something like
23 that.
24 Q. The Great Mambo Chicken and the Transhuman
25 Condition?
26 A. That's correct.
27 Q. So have you seen this book before?
28 A. Yes, I have.
140 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 Q. Okay. And we'll get to the book later.
2 A. Okay.
3 Q. What other information did you receive?
4 A. I received some court documents at one time, just
5 different things about Mr. Henson.
6 Q. Okay. And the documents that you received,
7 generally what were they about?
8 A. Well, they were about -
9 MR. HARR: Objection -
10 THE COURT: Excuse me.
11 MR. HARR: Calls for a conclusion, and relevancy.
12 THE COURT: Sustained.
13 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): We'll go back to the book then.
14 In this book what did you read about -- in it exactly?
15 A. I'm sorry, I didn't hear that question.
16 Q. I'll repeat it. In the book, in this Great Mambo
17 Chicken and the Transhuman Condition, is Mr. Henson in the
18 book?
19 A. Well, his name is mentioned in this book quite a
20 bit, actually.
21 Q. Okay. And in what context is Mr. Henson spoken
22 about or written about?
23 A. Well, in two aspects. One, the book goes into the
24 fact that he is a bomb expert as -- has extensive history in
25 being able to set off bombs, that he would go out into the
26 desert and set off a bomb. Some of these were very, very
27 large bombs, one that gave the impression that -- when it went
28 off it looked like an atomic bomb. In other words, it talks
141 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 about his ability to, one, be a bomb expert, and actually
2 going out and setting off bombs, making bombs, building them.
3 Q. Okay. And did this give you cause for concern?
4 A. Sure. Yes, it did.
5 Q. Okay. Now, you had a number of, you indicated, some
6 internet postings that were given to you; can you tell us what
7 other observations you had with respect to Mr. Henson?
8 MR. HARR: Objection, your Honor, as far as time,
9 date, place, too broad.
10 MR. SCHWARZ: I thought we were talking about May of
11 2000.
12 THE COURT: Then that's when we're talking about,
13 Counsel, apparently.
14 MR. HARR: All right. Thank you.
15 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): For the record, in the relevant
16 period between May of 2000 and September of 2000 what did you
17 observe with respect to Mr. Henson?
18 A. Well, I saw a number of things. One, when he showed
19 up at the church in late May or early June and he was there
20 for about three months, and he would show up day after day
21 after day for close to 40 days or more. It just went day
22 after day. And what he would do is he would go along the
23 highway, and as I explained, we have the two pedestrian
24 tunnels. And what he would do is he would run along to the
25 top of the tunnel, and as the staff, the church staff would
26 finish a meal, or were going from one building to another, he
27 would stand over the top of the tunnel and he would jeer or
28 cackle at the staff in there. And then what he would do is he
142 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 would go home that night, or wherever he went to, and then he
2 would go and post all the things that he did during the day on
3 the internet so that everybody in the world could read them.
4 And what he would do is when the -- all our staff, we have
5 about 750 staff, and they all live in Hemet and San Jacinto.
6 Only about ten or 12 people actually live at the property. So
7 when they would come in the morning in their cars or their
8 buses, or they would pull in, he would be there in the morning
9 standing in front of the gate, running around the buses, you
10 know, yelling at the staff in the buses, glaring at the women
11 that were driving in their cars. He would then after awhile
12 -- because I was getting concerned in light of the fact that I
13 had earlier postings at that time that not only is contained
14 in that book, but also other postings about him setting off
15 other huge bombs, one of which he set off a bomb that -
16 MR. HARR: Objection, your Honor. May I approach
17 the bench?
18 THE COURT: What is your objection?
19 MR. HARR: Of the postings that have been
20 authenticated I believe that's not among them.
21 THE COURT: Sustained.
22 MR. SCHWARZ: It goes to his state of mind, your
23 Honor, about how he felt.
24 THE COURT: Counsel, I made my ruling. Please don't
25 argue. Go ahead. Ask your next question.
26 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): What other -- what other things
27 did you observe, sir?
28 A. Okay. Well, I had the staff walking through the
143 Amanda M. Fagan, C. S. R. #8764 RPR
1 tunnels -
2 THE COURT: Excuse me, Mr. Hoden, what did you
3 observe?
4 THE WITNESS: Oh, okay. I saw that my staff were
5 going through the tunnels, and they were being heckled, you
6 know. He's called them cockroaches, just disgusting things,
7 basically. I don't know if he was just trying to incite a
8 disturbance or whatnot. But what he would do is, as they
9 would walk through he would go, "You, you," just constant,
10 every day, running to the gate. And then what I did to try to
11 handle the situation -
12 THE COURT: Excuse me, that's what he did? Is that
13 what he did?
14 THE WITNESS: Yes, he did that.
15 THE COURT: Okay. All right. You've answered the
16 question, sir.
17 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
18 THE COURT: Okay.
19 THE WITNESS: And then my concern was -
20 THE COURT: Excuse me, sir, there is no question
21 pending. Wait for Mr. Schwarz.
22 MR. SCHWARZ: Okay.
23 Q. Can you continue with your observations, sir.
24 A. Yes. Every day he was there it got a little bit
25 more and a little bit more. Then what he would do is he would
26 come there in the morning and at the end of the day when the
27 staff would go home, and he would follow the buses in his car.
28 And he would pull up behind the car, he'd pull up beside the
144 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 car, swing around -
2 Q. The jury can't see what you are gesturing.
3 A. I'm sorry. He would pull around the car, go to the
4 side of the car, go ahead of the car, zoom ahead to get to
5 where their apartments were -
6 MR. HARR: I object, when he said "their apartments"
7 that implies that he wasn't on the bus.
8 THE COURT: Do you know of your own knowledge what
9 he did?
10 THE WITNESS: Yeah, I've seen him -
11 THE COURT: Were you there, sir?
12 THE WITNESS: Yes. On two occasions I saw, I can -
13 THE COURT: Tell us about those occasions.
14 THE WITNESS: One, he was following the bus. Number
15 two, I saw him at apartments where our staff live in Hemet. I
16 saw him there one time at 6:30 in the morning where our staff
17 would go out to work and all of a sudden he'd be standing
18 there, or he'd be in his car taking pictures of each -- of the
19 people as they walked out. Or he would have a little pad, and
20 he would look at the people and look at their license plate
21 and write it down. Then he would get in his car and follow
22 the buses. After this happened a couple days, what I used to
23 have to do is I used to go to the apartment buildings in the
24 morning, and if he was there I had to reroute the buses a
25 whole different way.
26 MR. HARR: Your Honor, I believe we are now beyond
27 observation. I believe he's answered the question.
28 THE COURT: Sustained. Ask your next question.
145 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 MR. SCHWARZ: Thank you. We'll get to that.
2 Q. Did you -- now, did Mr. Henson, the defendant,
3 always have a sign when he was doing this activity?
4 A. No. Not all the time.
5 Q. So when he was taking pictures, how about when -
6 oh, I'll back up for foundational purposes.
7 Now, you indicated that there were some apartments?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Not all the staff live at Golden Era?
10 A. No. Only about maybe ten or 12 staff live at Golden
11 Era, and those are the type people that would fix a broken
12 pipe or if something broke down. Everybody else lives in
13 Hemet or San Jacinto that works there, at the church.
14 Q. Okay. So when you're talking about the buses,
15 what's the function of the buses, sir?
16 A. Well, one, we provide transportation back and forth
17 for the church staff. Some have cars, as I said, and maybe a
18 third or so, and then the rest just use the buses. Or
19 sometimes what they do is if they happen to have a car they'll
20 leave it at the apartment and just use -- in other words, it's
21 transportation that we provide for the staff that work at the
22 church.
23 Q. Okay. And you were talking about taking pictures;
24 where did that occur?
25 A. That occurred, we have some apartments over in Buena
26 Vista, Buena Vista Apartments, which are just about a block
27 from here, actually.
28 Q. Okay.
146 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 this behavior, what if anything did you tell your staff about 2 the
information that you received?
3 A. Yes, I did.
4 MR. HARR: Objection, your Honor.
5 THE COURT: What is the objection? State your
6 grounds.
7 MR. HARR: Overbroad. I mean, certain people are
8 alleged to be -
9 THE COURT: Excuse me. What is your objection?
10 MR. HARR: No foundation. Beyond the -- and
11 relevancy.
12 THE COURT: I'm not asking for speaking objections,
13 Counsel. Please just tell me the grounds.
14 MR. HARR: Relevancy.
15 THE COURT: I'm sorry?
16 MR. HARR: Relevancy.
17 THE COURT: Sustained.
18 MR. SCHWARZ: Your Honor, may I be heard on that?
19 THE COURT: No. Let's go, Counsel.
20 MR. SCHWARZ: Your Honor, I'm at a -
21 THE COURT: Counsel, please continue.
22 MR. SCHWARZ: I -- well -- may I approach your
23 clerk, your Honor?
24 THE COURT: Yes.
25 All right. Ladies and gentlemen, it's now about 25
26 after, and there are a couple of things I want to talk to you
27 about. Mr. Hoden, can you be here tomorrow morning at 9:00
28 o'clock?
148 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir, I can.
2 THE COURT: Thank you, sir. We'll excuse you for
3 the evening. See you tomorrow morning at 9:00 o'clock.
4 You're ordered back at that time.
5 THE WITNESS: Okay. Thank you.
6 THE COURT: Thank you, sir.
7 THE WITNESS: Thank you.
8 THE COURT: Let me say something to you folks in the
9 jury. I don't want anybody on the jury to think that this
10 Court has a view on any issue other than what the Court
11 believes is relevant evidence in this case. So no matter what
12 I do, I'm not -- I have no opinion one way or the other except
13 as to the legal aspect of this case. You will be the triers
14 of fact, and just because the Court may ask a question or may
15 limit questioning doesn't mean that the Court agrees or
16 disagrees with anything. It is merely doing its job. Do you
17 all understand that?
18 Okay. We'll adjourn now for the evening. Drive
19 carefully. Is there any reason anybody can't be here at 9:00
20 o'clock tomorrow? Okay. Any reason Counsel can't be here at
21 8:45?
22 MR. SCHWARZ: No, your Honor.
23 MR. HARR: No, your Honor.
24 THE COURT: I'm ordering Counsel back at 8:45, the
25 defendant back at 9:00 o'clock, and we'll see you folks at
26 9:00 o'clock in the morning. Have a pleasant evening. Leave
27 that right there. The deputy fortunately carries a big gun so
28 nobody will take any of those notes. They're perfectly safe.
149 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 (The jury exited the courtroom.)
2 THE COURT: Counsel, let me explain something to
3 both of you so you understand. The Court's responsibility is
4 to conduct what it believes to be a fair hearing. A fair
5 hearing does not mean that we go over the same subject matter
6 time after time after time. And if either of counsel is
7 unhappy with the ruling of the Court, that is truly
8 unfortunate. But that's the way it's going to be. And we're
9 going to move this trial, and we are going to get it through.
10 I'm sorry if you feel, if either of you feel one way or
11 another. I want you to understand that's not an apology, as
12 we said in China.
13 So we'll see you -- is there any reason why you
14 can't be here at 8:45, Counsel?
15 MR. HARR: No.
16 THE COURT: Let's get here -- if we have something
17 in the morning, you want to see me early, please let the clerk
18 know at 8:45 and I will come out so we can resolve any issues
19 and not delay the jury. Okay? Have a pleasant evening.
20 THE CLERK: Your Honor, one of the jurors gave this
21 to the deputy.
22 THE COURT: Oh. You want to read it?
23 MR. SCHWARZ: Please.
24 THE COURT: Sure.
25 MR. HARR: Thank you.
26 THE COURT: You might want to incorporate that in
27 some of your questions.
28 MR. HARR: Thank you, your Honor.
150 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR
1 MR. SCHWARZ: Thank you, your Honor. Is this the -
2 can the People mark this down, write the questions down to
3 address?
4 THE COURT: I'll give you a copy.
5 MR. SCHWARZ: Give me a copy? Thank you. People
6 will take a copy.
7 THE COURT: Do you want a copy, too?
8 MR. HARR: Please, your Honor. Thank you.
9 THE COURT: All right.
10 THE CLERK: Can I ask one more question, Judge? I
11 apologize. I wasn't here. When the People amended the 12 complaint
this morning, is there a physical document, or is 13 that just oral?
14 THE COURT: Just by interlineation.
15 THE CLERK: And there won't be any physical document
16 forthcoming?
17 THE COURT: No.
18 THE CLERK: Okay. Thank you.
19 THE COURT: See you in the morning.
20 MR. SCHWARZ: Thank you.
21 MR. HARR: Thank you.
22 (Proceedings adjourned.)
23 -000
24
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26
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151 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR