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took your response to vice as your effort to contradict what he said, which is why i addressed your explanation the way i did. sounded like you were saying the aspect of your appearance alone can define you as transgender, when really it could have no bearing on what you personally identify as. for instance, men that could just naturally look girly, those whose feminine mannerisms are just a product of their environment, or certain male celebrities that wear female clothing just because they think it looks cool and not because they feel like a woman.

There is definitely a trendy thing about it, but I am definitely curious about the psychology of it.

It's sort of a cultural shift as we begin to question how and why we express gender the way we do and people are more welcome to express themselves without the same prejudice they might have had before.

So it seems a lot more popular now here than say South East Asia which has had this tradition for way longer than we normally think of.

The gender identity disorders (GID) are defined as disorders in which an individual exhibits marked and persistent identification with the opposite sex and persistent discomfort (dysphoria) with his or her own sex or sense of inappropriateness in the gender role of that sex.

Taken from google. Those people have valid conserns for their gender. They need to be the other.

But genderfluidity is just making their struggle seem less important, with muddying the waters by stating that gender doesn't exist, or exists in all the ways you want, or switching from one only requires clothes and a mental attitude, or that there exists an "inbetween" state, simply brought on by the person's own belief.

I believe one can't switch genders. With an asterisk.

If you say to me there's a male wanting to be female, and with GID, I accept him as a trans female, and respect his wishes to be a female. His original gender doesn't change, but if his mental outlook on life improves, and he feels more comfortable as a trans-female, good on him.

But if you show me a girl saying they're genderfluid, and today identify as they/them, I'll look at you funny.

Gender isn't a social construct. Gender roles are, and how to be a man or how to be a woman is. But gender? XY or XX. Identity is its own thing, regardless of gender.

You missed my point, i'm aware that having 2 personalities is a disorder. I'm just trying to paint a picture of how someone might have a different gender than there biological sex, it's an example. The point of that example wasn't to discuss the example itself, but to illustrate holding a gender opposite to your sex, which is why right afterwards i move on to the person with a single personality. Makes it easier to imagine and understand my general point. The point being, you can embody the social/psychological characteristics of the opposite gender as your sex. I mean, you can call that a disorder if you want, but my point was that the people saying that this doesn't exist or who can't imagine it being real are at the least wrong about that. Now if this applies specifically to gender fluid is a bit of extrapolation,but i mean i've seen cases, and they weren't identifying as genderfluid, but rather repressing there other gender.

Though on disorders, what is and isn't a disorder is simply a question of what society does and doesn't accept. identifying as a gender different than your sex is as much of a disorder as being gay is, or rather was before it became normalized.

Though, the issue of plastic surgery for those suffering from gender dysphoria is something I'm less sure about. My instinct tells me it should generally be discouraged, but this is something that would (for me) need to be studied from a scientific and Islamic perspective before I issue a final verdict.

It's not though. Like, I can't discriminate against someone and not give them a job because they're genderfluid but I'm not going to be arrested or fined for the wrong pronoun, so I don't know why you're trying to make it seem that way.

Though, the issue of plastic surgery for those suffering from gender dysphoria is something I'm less sure about. My instinct tells me it should generally be discouraged, but this is something that would (for me) need to be studied from a scientific and Islamic perspective before I issue a final verdict.

Generally in Islam there's a prohibition on imitating the opposite sex in things that are seen as exclusive to that sex. Obviously this depends on the custom of the time and place. A good example is that wearing a kilt is not seen as feminine in Scotland but wearing a similar article of clothing elsewhere might be seen as such.

However, gender dysphoria was a known phenomenon during the time of the Prophet SAW and the early Muslims. An exception as made for people suffering from gender dysphoria, since they have a legitimate medical condition that is out of their control. Thus, a male who suffers from the condition would be allowed to dress like a female and might even be allowed to be with females in private.

Islam doesn't really have a concept of gender though, you're either a male for female depending on your apparent sex (intersex people have their own ruling).

So a scholar would need to look at the evidences and do research on the scientific reality and so on to arrive at a ruling.

Generally in Islam there's a prohibition on imitating the opposite sex in things that are seen as exclusive to that sex. Obviously this depends on the custom of the time and place. A good example is that wearing a kilt is not seen as feminine in Scotland but wearing a similar article of clothing elsewhere might be seen as such.

In other words what you have a problem with isnt what people choose to wear, its them choosing to wear clothing associated with an exclusive sex. In other words, if it was the norm that everyone who was a man wore a frilly dress and everyone who was a woman wore a power suit then there would be no issue with men wearing frilly dresses because that would be the manly thing to do.

But this logic is wrong. If there is no concept of gender in Islam, then there should be no problem with people who experience gender dysphoria since gender not existing basically means there is no concrete black and white, male and female, answer for what gender a person is.

Like I shared with Gay: You’re describing sex not gender. Gender is a cultural/social thing. Sex is the biological part.

For a large majority, those 2 are the same. But gender identity is individualistic. But yeah, not the same, arguably, but not a social construct either. Something more based on human nature. Society is like 1 factor, not the main one

The notion that gender fluidity doesnt exist is almost as laughable as some of the ill informed arguments ive seen in this thread. Of course gender fluidity exists. There are boys who are more comfortable playing with barbie dolls than they are with action men, and there are some men who prefer to wear gentler feminine colours like pink in their clothing than stronger masculine colours.

It is beyond asinine to think everything can be placed neatly into two little boxes, when everyone has a different personality and a different upbringing. You may as well be saying all men and all women are the same because one has a vagina and one has a penis. Its caveman logic and you should feel bad if you think this way