Flag designs I’d vote for

I think we can find a better flag that the current design, and am pleased for the first time in our history we’ll get a vote on it. But I’ll only vote for a flag that is better – not for change for it’s own sake.

Manolo

radvad

Just change it already.
To all those complaining about the cost consider this. If the flag is not changed this time around the issue will resurface, probably within 20 years. By then it will be a 50 million dollar process.

radvad

ross411

gazzmaniac (2,504 comments) says:
July 17th, 2015 at 11:12 am
It is interesting, I haven’t heard anyone say anything positive about changing the flag except for our host and the Prime Minister.
Mark my words, this motion will get shot down in flames.

All you need to know about our host, is that he is fervently for getting rid of our head of state, and becoming a republic. As many of his posts show. These posts meet as much enthusiasm as his flag changing support.

It wouldn’t surprise me if his stance on changing the flag was related to his obsession with the above.

ps, an emblem or crest doesn’t have to “evolve with the times”. It’s history is just as important. For example – look at the emblem or crest for Porshe.

In the center of the crest is the coat of arms of the city of Stuttgart, Germany, where Porsche is headquartered. Stuttgart was once upon a time a stud farm and its coat of arms has had a horse on it forever, for 700 years. The antlers and the stripes are from the coat of arms of the German state of Württemberg, which no longer exists, and the colors are the national colors of Germany.

ross411

In addition to choosing one of these ghastly flags, I suggest we choose an alternate anthem. To match the tackiness of these flags, it should be monotone and sung out of tune on purpose. We could establish ourselves as the country that doesn’t care about how things look and sound, because we’re above the superficial. 😆

#1 is especially lame. It just looks like someone got their kid to do it as a holiday project. #12 looks like it wants to be the union jack, but looks like a sad try hard recreation.

tvb

I would like to see the flag change. It looks especially dated with its reference to the British empire. Once upon a time all the countries of the British Empire had flags very similar to our own. I will vote for change either flag 5 or flag 11 or something else. Neither is quite right yet. I think the fern is too large and looks too clumsy against the Southern Cross which I do NOT want to see removed. There seems to be a general consensus about that.

No change required. Waste of money, waste of the esteemed panels time [opportunity cost] and a complete waste of political capital.

Lloyd, dear friend of JK want this badly. Spent a bucket load of his money on trying to drum up the debate – end result no one was damn well interested. Lloyd dies. JK picks up the mantle of changing the flag and we get 26 million of TAXPAYERS Dosh wasted on this inanity.

JK – beautiful you cared about Lloyd. Friendship/mateship is a great thing. But forcing this into the manifesto and creating this crap is taking it all too far in my view…

And meanwhile the debt mountain grows, China is on the brink and the TTPA is not well debated…. brilliant

fernglas

Lockwood’s is great, but I can’t get alongside black in a national flag; too many connotations with the countries that presently have it, with ISIS, anarchy, the Swastika and even the Jolly Roger. I am wholeheartedly in favour of a change, although the cost seems excessive. I always hitched in Europe with the silver fern on my pack, and it was pretty well recognised.

Ceejay

I speak as a third generation Kiwi whose great-grandparents all migrated here from dear old Blighty in the late 19th century. Apart from my paternal great-grandmother who for some reason was born in Geelong. I try not to talk about that.

Why on earth would we want to continue to be represented by a flag of which a quarter is a homage to the flag of another, completely separate, country?

Which side of history do you want to be on?

And before you get all RSA on me, I have to say the old soldiers I’ve spoken to tell me they didn’t fight for the NZ flag. They fought, first and foremost, simply to survive and get home to see their loved ones again. And if they did have a nobler purpose, it was to do their bit to help preserve the democratic rights and freedoms of our country.

Democratic rights which include, I believe, the right to change our flag.

metcalph

As an aside, Red, White and Blue appear on the French Tricolour because they were deliberately copying the colours of the Union Jack to signify an appreciation for the English (Shurely British? Nah, fuck it. English) practice of liberties. It would be a shame to lose those associations because people didn’t know what the colours represented.

My preference is for something akin to 5. A quick straw-poll of Chinese and Australians in Hangzhou earlier this year, also had this picked as their favourite.

I am of the opinion that a silver-fern is an essential. We have the silver-fern already embossed on our passports, it has a long history in NZ (being one the military badges we’ve used) and at sporting events, the number of kiwis waving silver-fern flags over our national flag is obvious. I’m not sure what the value of a national flag is, if most of us choose not to use it.

My recollection of the previous election was that in fact, both National and Labour were in favour of proposing a flag change.

Ross12

There was a thread on the NBR with better submissions. Scroll down to about half way through the posts for the one by Che Tamahori. The first link he has with samples by Sven Baker are much better than any of the above (NB. I don’t have any connection with Baker)

PaulP

alloytoo

Fentex

New Zealand cannot (with good conscience) change its flag while it remains a constitutional monarchy with the Queen as head of state.

Sure we can, I don’t think enough New Zealanders care to do it, but we’re no different than Canada which has demonstrated there is no particular issue with the idea.

Without some reason, some act (like becoming a republic) or event encapsulated by a symbol that demands it be adopted (I don’t have an example of what I mean because it hasn’t happened) I don’t feel a pressing need to adopt any of these new flags.

I don’t want a British Ensign as a New Zealand flag, it’s out of place (and not just because the UK chose the EU over the Commonwealth forty years ago) but while that’s a reason to put the current flag away I’d like something more than just casting around for change to recommend a replacement.

If I had no choice but had to pick one of those then #5

I do not believe national flags should be predominantly black – that dilutes their function as identification at a distance in possible low light. And the silver fern on black is, although historically often an identifier for New Zealanders, now mostly known as a symbol of sporting teams – it fits uncomfortably with me as a more inclusive symbol of nation.

I certainly have no truck with people who argue “NZ Inc. needs it’s own branding”. Branding as national symbolism, ugh. How soulless.

Personally I rather wish NZ was at the point where we could transition to a republic on Elizabeth’s passing as I find the timing elegant but I don’t think we’re prepared for that and won’t be for another generation.

spanish_tudor

Anything with black or the silver fern on it would turn our national flag into little more than the marketing device of a rugby team – so, no thanks. Stupid idea.

Large swathes of black also create risk comparisons to pirates, or worse, Islamic State – so, no.

Green has no significance at all for our heritage (yes, grass and trees are green – so what? On that basis, the kid’s sheep and hokey pokey flag is just as significant for us). Pandering to some leftist green wet dream is not what our flag should be about, and green is not a colour significant in our history.

Red, white, and blue are the colours of the Westminster democratic tradition, and these are the most appropriate colours for any flag for our country. Any moves away from this are just politically correct nonsense – you can bet on any new flag there will only be one culture represented, and it won’t be European.

We should stick with the current flag. I don’t buy the “it’s too similar to Australia’s” tosh – our flag has four red and white stars, theirs has seven white stars. If you can’t differentiate between them on these bases alone (four is not seven, and red is not white), then you are a moron.

ngatimozart

I too like 5 & 11. They IMHO reflect quite well NZ. If I had to choose between the two then 11 because it has all the colours that are important to NZ. The black and the white (should be silver), the red, white and blue. It is important to retain the Southern Cross with the red stars and not have the white Australian white type. Just because we change the flag does not mean that we remove the Queen as Head of State. We are an independent nation and our flag should reflect that, and it should reflect who and what we are. We owe the UK nothing now because any debt owed by us to them has been paid in blood.

Tarquin North

Someone said a while back that John Key designed this idea to fail, which would prevent anyone – particularly of a socialist republican bent ever trying it again in the forseeable future. If this is true it’s a brilliant move, I’m quite happy with the existing flag. It’s just wasting 26 mil that I’m not so keen on.

kowtow

m@tt

Given the overwhelmingly negative response here on kiwiblog I’ve got good money to wager that the flag is not going to change.

The flag consultation panel, as experts, should have quite early on come to the same conclusion I have. Therefore I will expect the members of the flag consultation panel to return every cent they have extracted from the taxpayer in pursuit of this pointless endeavour.

Boris Piscina

When BoJo becomes the next British Prime Minister in a coalition with UKIP, the UK will leave Europe and come home to the Commonwealth. And they will say thanks very much for keeping the Union Jack warm for us, and start buying lots of our butter again, and everyone will be happy. Except the Greeks who will still be skint, and the Germans who will still be subsidising them, and everyone in NZ who wanted a flag change or a republic or both, because no-one is interested.

Wayne1749

The current flag is fine. The Union Jack is still seen the world over as a marker of quality, of responsible and open governance and a unique legal system, of scientific, and cultural excellence.

What is wrong with being associated with it? It has good associations. And then of course there is the obvious historic significance to this country.

This is almost taking a Taliban approach to things – just because things are changing does not mean the past is simply chucked out. Nothing wrong with tradition and a reminder of how things started.

NZ is a friggin small country, and we did idiotic things under Labour like rid ourselves of the privy council —does a country the size of medium sized city in world standards, really think we statistically produce the number of quailty legal minds that the UK can? We need to have strong attachments to the UK and also to retain the monarchy, as that provides a sort of cultural ballast and sense of security.

Bazar

1. It costs money
2. Our soldiers died for that flag
3. All the designs are ugly
4. Flags aren’t supposed to change
5. It has history.
6. We’d have to dump the our current flag that works well.

1. The money is paid, its a mute issue.
2. Our soldiers didn’t die for a flag, and to suggest otherwise is glorifying their deaths with falsehoods for self gain.
3. Our current flag design is ugly. You’re just used to taking it for granted.
4. Flags do change, just look at Britain over the years. The union jack is a amalgamation of 3 flags
5. So will our new flag, just give it time.
6. Just because we get a new flag wouldn’t mean the old flag would stop representing us. Its as silly as saying once the queen dies all currency would have to be replaced. Its just not true, you’ll be able to keep the old flag and fly it with pride.

Honestly, so much resistance from such stubborn and ill thought reasons. Its baffling.

Also disclaimer:
My father was a proud englishman, and i’m a strong believer in the commonwealth, but even so i can’t see the point in having the union jack on our flag.

Michael

All those flags are better looking than our current flag.
But my picks for the best three are the same as DPF’s , though in slightly different order.
First choice #5
Second choice #11
Third choice #10.
Then maybe #9 for fourth choice.

Honeybadger

Personally, I want to see the flag as it is, why does it have to be changed? Because JK wants it? The first referendum should have been ‘Do you want the flag changed?’ $26 million dollars could have been better spent elsewhere.

Gaharis

I would also like to see a change of flag. The debate etc was promised as a policy before the election, and while it was not why I voted for National I would like them to keep their promises except where there is good reason not to. The cost does not bother me.

I do not want to see New Zealand become a republic, we do not realise how lucky we are.

But a change of flag is long overdue. I am a first generation New Zealander of British decent and I am quite proud of that, but we are now a diverse people and the placing of the Union Jack on our flag is past its use by date.

I would like to keep the red white and blue as a reflection of the past and I like the fern as a symbol so for me number 5 is the best of those shown.

ciaron

If memory serves, a large proportion of the $26 mill is actually going on setting up the online voting system, which will be used on an ongoing basis.

Only around $5 mill is being spent on this particular referendum.

Maybe that deserves to be restated.

Oh, that’s OK then.

Except I heard that it wasn’t going to be an on line deal as they couldn’t have it reliably set up in time. But you’re right in wanting the exact, true cost to be articulated clearly and definitively 🙂

All_on_Red

minus

There are 9729 designs of the website, submissions having closed midnight, last night.
The Herald bungs 15 of them in its paper.
Means nothing.
Why at this stage even consider comparing one to another.
Apparently we [the public] do nothing until the panel drops the total number to four.

Of more interest perhaps at this stage is Gareth Morgan’s effort.
His winning design [for $20,000 of over 1000 more entries] was supposed to be announced yesterday
Was it?
Did it get entered onto the Official Government website before midnight?

1) You can’t put a silver fern on a flag – too easy to mistake for something else
2) You can’t make it all black – it’s a bad colour internationally
3) You can’t make it black and red – then you’re just representing canterbury

A simple kuru (which is our maple leaf), with the stars (like the old flag) not looking like they’re jammed in would get my vote at this stage.

Pita

greenjacket

No.10.
The symbol our soldiers fought under in WW1 and WW2 – if we must change it should be something with a link to our past. And the silver fern is already used by all NZ sports teams, yachts, and a lot of government agencies anyway.

hj

Boris Piscina

We’ve missed some of the most important timeless Kiwi icons. There’s no sheep, no Footrot Flats characters, no pavlova, no mince and cheese pies, no lamingtons, no L&P, not one solitary gumboot, no Crumpy driving a Toyota, no milk powder, no rugby ball (gasp), no Ferguson tractors, and most importantly, no picture of John Key walking off into the sunset of retirement with his knighthood in one hand and the flag of Hawaii in the other…..a flag which still has the Union Jack on it.

V

Nookin

I really struggle to feel any affinity with or be enthused by the flags of St George, St Patrick or St Andrew or an amalgam of them all. I know a lot of people tend to get all excited on St Patricks day but only because its is good day to pretend to be Irish and get pissed. I like 5 and 11. I like the simplicity of 10. I would vote any one of those three ahead of the present flag, the only saving grace of which is the southern cross.

Meatloaf

In case your not aware of it, the one thing these flags all have in common is no union jack. The union jack represents are ties with England. Although England might not be perfect, our heritage goes back to that. Now other than that, if we must have a change in the flag, flag 11 looks the best. Some of these designs look totally hideous, are current flag looks pretty good, come to think of it.

Inthisdress

All these flags are doing is underpinning how suitable the present one is. If the problem is that John Key on occasion gets put under and Australian flag by mistake, this is because New Zealanders in general have failed to make enough of an impact upon the world that others are keen to get it right.

one of them looks like a tsunami on a dark night, another a kiwi coming out of a lift another (sadly) looks like a crack-pipe. One lopks like a crack pipe getting loaded, some are like photofits one with a big line between the Aotearoa and the rest of polynesia – seriously? What are we trying to say that we’ll take any garbage as long as the union flag is not present … because the system that establish modern democratic systems is a shameful reflection of who we are as a nation and we gotta be more ‘diverse’.

Why not just use a white flag, and surrender totally to the next fad? People could just draw what they like in biro on it.

So if NZ is an international nonentity, and the people don’t have the gumption to assert their national spirit, one can see why those same people find it easier to whinge about England for their own short fallings, isn’t it?.

Given the appalling results that may have transpired if France or The USA had managed to establish themselves here in the 1800’s, One day NZ might even regard the presence of the Union flag with pride as part of the national whakapapa. Our language, our constitution even Te Tiriti o Waitangi – all the result of how the British did things – you think we’d be the nation we are if the French Tricolour was part of the current flag? Given the French attitude to their language do you think Te Reo Maori would even exist as a living, legal entity any more?

The debate about our current flag is a symptom of a national malaise, The current flag is not the actual disease, people, it is New Zealand’s identity crisis which is driving this, imo. It should embrace its heritage, be proud of who it is, and get on with showing the world that it is a nation devoted to the triumph of substance over style.
Yeah you guessed it I’m a pom.
Gosh, does it show?

SPC

The current flag says UK colony.

The Union Jack in the corner surrounded by blue of water or sky infers that her navy rules the waves and it was an empire on which the sun never set. The Southern Cross stars merely says which hemisphere.

But while a majority is fearful of change there will be no change.

Given that 5 and 11 are favoured by the PM and are most popular in the Herald poll, this just as well.

The Canadians and Israel did well with simpler (one feature and thus less cluttered) 2 colour designs. Following after the Greeks.

The Union Jack and Stars and Stripes use 3 colours with design but still simpler, less cluttered than both fern and stars.

Most nations use merely colours, with either vertical or horizontal tricolours commonplace. Only a few such as India uses a blue (wheel or eye?) feature on white and the Mexicans a coat of arms on white add anything else.

Apparently some of us are looking for a new flag to brand us to the world, just as the colonial flag we have was the UK empire brand on its colonies. But of course like the servant of Candyland in Django, the older generation is not ready to embrace freedom from the old regime. Much like southern state whites cling to the confederate flag

Of course if we have yet to emerge with our own identity and culture, then we have no new brand? Partly because the Pakeha settler class fears loss of control over the future without the past brand remaining in place?.

SPC

Looking through the flag suggestions, there are many options I did not see.

Such as tricolours – black, white and silver. National colours if we have them. We navigated here by night time stars, we call the land one of the silver fern under the long white cloud – we also have black in the antipodean nocturnal Kiwi relationship to the Union Jack country.

One could put 3 stars on the top black third of a tricolour and a 4th on the bottom third silver.

Another option is to replace the Union Jack in the top left quarter with the Southern Cross – 4 white stars on black. And then have black, white and silver stripes (with some interlocking curl at the ends maybe). As no American corporate has IP rights to stars and stripes we can steal this off them without any TPP consequences.

Personally I prefer we keep the kiwi and fern as branding symbols separate from the flag.

lazza

Unity

The whole rigmarole is totally pointless, not to mention horrendously expensive. We have a perfectly good flag and I feel proud whenever I see it. The last thing we need is anything black on it. All the designs, while I do acknowledge that one or two are quite good, are just like the latest fashion fad. People would get tired of it sooner or later and then want something new and fresh.

No, I vote for the status quo. It’s a great flag and acknowledges our ties to the country that helped make us great.