it seems in some way these two camps are tied together..with others...and it appears that in some nebulous way these camps are working to provide clients with: "Access to The Best Art Cars on The Playa" and "Unique Camp Activities"

I guess the KRUG thing might let us know what a unique camp activity is.. and i suppose the loud annoying stick car that had "several Ranger interactions regarding noise complaints" is what they mean when referring to the best art cars on the playa..

anyways!!!

sure does look like all the slime collects at the bottom of the drain....

Cheyenne, what DID you say in your deleted post? Musta been gooood, LOL! I have nothing but respect for hard working, dedicated long distance burners such as you and yours. You didn't earn the playa name "Archer" for being a slouch, that's for sure. See you in the dust soon, soon....we should chat.

Ok, so the real mess is the Lottery (gasp did I say THAT? yep, I did) and these PnP camps are a distraction tactic from just that, the lottery, yay! NOT!

Hmmm, I'll never make a good pet for any P&P'r, so maybe the P&P'rs can simply over-buy every ticket there is and re-distribute them in order to strike a balance (Oh wait, I am dreaming) maybe the LLC can find a solution to striking a balance (oh wait, must be a nightmare) eh, let's hope the P&P'rs do not add to the already difficult process of obtaining a ticket for everyone in thier camps by over buying the burn. If they were to do so, I am NOT for sale, at any price during the burn (talk to me later).

For as long as I can remeber the burn has always, always been there and buyng a ticket was a non-factor, now look? As if we don't have enough to contend with, now we have to hope some sort of alternative to the lottery (gasp, I said it again?!! yep, I did) can be hashed out. I miss my battered, shattered and now scattered tribes...

I'm the MAN in a truck, burner who is stuck, you're in luck! I'll whip out my BIG tow chain and not charge you, not even one lousy buck!

BeachBum wrote:I just wanted to reply to a few very previous comments in this thread, and in the main BM blog post, on this topic which talked negatively about the gentleman who organized the P&P camp chronicled by the WSJ article.

Regarding this gentleman, there are very few people whom i respect more. Basically, the next Steve Jobs. His personal stuff is well chronicled, but the audacity of what he has accomplished in a business sense is amazing! He's apparently a long-time burner, previously driving RVs up to the playa himself. The audacity of him taking the couple hundred million he made on Paypal, and, instead of resting on his laurels, he throws absolutely everything into starting two long-shot companies intended to radically change established industries.

His first company, Tesla, intends to make a go of electric cars. Basically, taking on the entire auto industry. And, taking on the FUD PR perception of electric cars that the auto industry sold to the populace, that electric cars will never be viable. The Tesla roadster got them started, and now the Model S will hopefully make them profitable. And hopefully establish the electric car as a viable vehicle. Wow.

His second company, SpaceX, is taking on the entire bureaucratic, cost-plus ridden, government-industrial space complex. The audacity of saying you're going to build rockets at a firm-fixed cost, and then doing so! Their next rocket goes to the International Space Station this month, with about 12 rockets to follow, for only 1.6 billion. Compare that to the bureaucratic cost-plus contracts recently politically awarded to companies in the TX coast, FL space coast, and DC areas to develop semi-new rockets. SpaceX could launch a couple hundred rockets for the same cost of what these new contracts pay for only two rocket launches. Wow.

And, to be the model for Tony Stark (Ironman) in the two movies! I love how the movies portray Tony Stark, how they well capture how everyone looks at him, like he's crazy, both in the personal sense and in the business sense. But, he pulls off unbelievable audacious acts to succeed.

Sorry, i realize this post is a touch off-topic now, but i just wanted to reply to the previous posts mentioning this gentleman. I'm totally against P&P camps, they obliterate the basic principles of radical self-reliance and non-commodification/non-commercialization. As well as take tickets away from us who really care about BRC, in favor of giving tickets to people who just want to attend a cool festival and are not prepared to survive themselves on the nasty playa.

I realize that there is a lot of snark on these threads. Please, trash the P&P concept, it deserves to be snarked out of existence. But, for the persons who snarked this gentleman, ask yourself, "What have you created in your own life which compares to what he has created and the people he has employed in doing so?"

Best wishes.

(BTW, TnT, imho, raffles are cool! Pls just let people know what their percentages of winning are by limiting and disclosing the max number of tickets to be sold. Thus, people can then make their own informed decision on whether to basically donate their money to a good camp or art cause.)

Did you just copy this out of his Wikipedia profile? I personally could give a shit that he was one of several cofounders of yet another dot.com. perhaps in your circle this something to be fawned over and admired and deserving of self-congratulatory sycophanty. On the playa his only contribution has been as a tourist paying others to creat an experience for him. Sorry if you feel criticism of him is off limits purely based on your admiration of him. I can assure you, many others do not. Hopefully, he and his ilk will not return next year....

Just get a few days of wind at BRC like they got at EDC, and that will blow the plug & play sparkle ponies right out of the equation. They can more comfortably stay couped up in their RVs at any of the State Parks that have essentially become trailer parks.

The camp with a differenceNever mind the weatherWhen you camp with Plug & PlyYour holiday's forever

Um, is this supposed to be slap on the wrist approach that quiets the grumbling community? I'll forgive the typos but the sentiment feels very rushed. I am curious how this will play out...especially when more people are concerned about tickets than theme camps. I am of the opinion that theme camps and the artists who create, reside and graciously share them are the life blood of the event. The whole bigger is better thing though...why is it so hard to see that it's not as sustainable or even necessary? If you think that charging strangers to camp with you in order for your grand idea to be realized is actually beneficial to the community than perhaps you are confused about what the event is all about.

Anywho, I will take a small REAL theme camp of artists over a huge monster "turnkey" camp with its "clients" any day of the short week while the event is happening. Still have my fingers crossed that this year won't be Coachella Man (hologram flames?), though we seem to be on the cusp of subsidizing that mentality...

Curious response Simon...you are in a bit of the chapel perilous zone methinks...damned either way. What I mean is that the quality of playa music has never been out and out amazing, with more of a copy cat trendy vibe each year, and now with EDM being the "next-big-thing" suddenly...how does Root Society sidestep the woeful womp womp of bro step and it's ilk?

On a personal note it saddens me that there aren't more musical choices overall, white dj's be running things with an occasional splash of brown skin here and there (if you are lucky lol). Would be nice if the large sound camps paid a bit more attention to that...but just an observation, no need to fall into the "BM is a white thing" convo at this juncture.

Still seen your fb posts needing people to help with your camp and how you are trying to grow 50 to 150 by (ahem) "provisioning for a small fee" (/ahem)... You wanna talk about that and your whole take on this turnkey camp phenomenon? I'm sure enquiring minds would love to know...

cosmicgiggle wrote:On a personal note it saddens me that there aren't more musical choices overall, white dj's be running things with an occasional splash of brown skin here and there (if you are lucky lol). Would be nice if the large sound camps paid a bit more attention to that...but just an observation, no need to fall into the "BM is a white thing" convo at this juncture.

This is the attitude that saddens me. As a DJ with dusty white skin, and a lover of more types of music than you (ignore the sweeping generalization), I must say that if YOU want your favorite type of music on the playa, then YOU will need to bring it. Don't complain that you can't drink Heinekin (fuck that shit) when everybody brings Pabst Blue Ribbon (and you didn't bring any at all)!

we ask for 200 in camp dues which covers all food, water, liquor, hand made solar shower for two out of wood, snacks, and for the first time, no special toidies with showers and mirrors and those guys that stand there while you pee with cologne (kidding...KIDDING!!!), just rental JOTS for the camp, just as many other theme camps and villages do. 30 bucks a day is more than fair, we do NOT make a profit, far fucking from it.

we have a very widespread demographic. boston, new york, philly, denver, berlin, paris, brazil you get my drift. It is very difficult for alot of them to carry all they need...i know....believe me i know, i have carried in all i need on my back, but it is a matter of fact that many of the crew cannot, and so this logistical service is done by SOMEONE ELSE whose duty it is to get supplies...no different than many organizations i know of.

as always, all camp members are assigned tasks and build duties, we work quite hard to get everything ready by wednesday.

security assignments go to the ones who volunteer for that, not all people are able or want to.

we moop every morning noon and night, and anyone who has visited the camp in the past remarks on how spotless our area is, almost freakishly so.

we recycle, use evap ponds, etc etc etc...ive been out here for a long time, and have been passing on tips over the years, and each one has been adopted.

our camp founder has been very very generous for many years (2005-2010) and his gift was to give the playa the best in shake your bootie, i think he did a great job. He is a Friend and a Mentor, i will tell you outright where i stand. This year we are coming together to all help and assist and do whatever it is we can to make this happen, and to show our gratitude in a sense, to all that he has done...we're in new territory, out of our comfort zone, but thats ok..

We Love Burning Man. We are a very eclectic group who has grown and transformed over the years, and i dont think anyone can really pin us down with a label, and make it stick....we've had hard core grunge metal shows (which bombed miserably....thanks oooze, you guys rocked....) live reggae, afro-beta, many live dj combinations, and quite as varied as well as "star studded" line up....all djs get treated just like anyone else in our camp....i didnt even know who half of them were for years. I actually got in freq nasty's face first year because i thought he was trying to sneak in the back door...seriously...awkward....

we are collaborating with other camps (ROOTIE BOOTIE PARTY wed at Midnight-3...shameless plug!) and opening up our stage and equipment to new people new sounds. during the day, classes, meetings, unicorn races whatever, will be held, and also pretty much on a first come first serve....again, it's our gift...we come out before, we build this monster (no pun intended, i swear) and then we put on a show every night for people to have fun and we clean up afterward. AND we do it Safely and Professionally, no matter what anyone wants to say, that is a plus...we watch out and take great pains to make sure no one gets hurt, and trust me, with that many guests, on that many substances, this is not an easy task.

and then theres moop.

this year we are going to very pro actively attack that problem as well, because if we dont score green, we suck...

we have to prove ourselves after last years moop map disaster on 10 oclock even though we werent there...it is what it is.

ill be there before and after.

im also responsible for alot of stuff.

i promise playa, to do the best i can to the best of my abilities to help lead root society by example, and show to the rest of the community that large sound camps can contribute to the community in a positive manner, and that we are not the enemy....we've been around since i've been going, except back then rave camp was like 2 miles north, and there were squished hippies in a tent halfway there....thats how you knew you were halfway.

anyway, i digress.

have i answered all of your questions?.

i'm rambling, im sorry, and this took forever, i really dont type that well.

anyway, there you have it, i think you will be surprised by Us, as we tend to always defy expectations which are constantly set higher, and surpass them.

ps...the day beds have been sanitized, squeegeed, and are good to go, i am SO glad i finally upholstered those suckers in industrial roofing grade rubber sheeting...

PSS...one edit...my friend, and brother from another space mother, Sky Walker is the Lead Captain this year,and i for one think that He loves the Dust as much as i do, and will do a helluva Job, as i have worked many hours by his side and have witnessed the Man's integrity first hand. We talk every day, and needless to say, holy shit we have a butt load to do.