I mean, I kind of give them a pass on the new films because, awkward as it was at times, the concept of an alternate universe is well-established in Trek lore. But trying to pretend that something is in the same continuity, without having continuity in either style/look or key plot details, like they did with Enterprise (and look set to do here too, although hopefully it'll be better than Enterprise)? Yeah, that's just sad.

You do a half-reboot, you tend to end up with the worst of both worlds. You get the people pissed off that you did a reboot, and you get the old baggage too. It just muddles things. The only franchise I can think of that really gets away with it is Doctor Who, and they've basically written periodic partial reboots into the premise of the series in a way that actually makes sense, or as much sense as Who ever makes sense.

Trying to have your cake and eat it too is generally a sign of bad writing (or bad management). It shows that they can't pick an idea and commit to developing it.

"Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?"

"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

-Generals William T. Sherman and Ulysses S Grant, the Battle of Shiloh.

"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"-Terry Pratchett's DEATH.

The Romulan Republic wrote:I mean, I kind of give them a pass on the new films because, awkward as it was at times, the concept of an alternate universe is well-established in Trek lore.

Indeed, why not a series in the Mirror Universe? You don't have to worry about continuity very much, the Terran Empire is extremely right wing, so you can be allegorical to current events, and you have fan-servicey uniforms already established! What's not to like?

The Romulan Republic wrote:I mean, I kind of give them a pass on the new films because, awkward as it was at times, the concept of an alternate universe is well-established in Trek lore.

Indeed, why not a series in the Mirror Universe? You don't have to worry about continuity very much, the Terran Empire is extremely right wing, so you can be allegorical to current events, and you have fan-servicey uniforms already established! What's not to like?

I second the motion, given the 'grim dark' bent with many genres this day and age, a Terran Empire Series would do quite well

Additionally having humans as 'villain protagonists' would be a welcome change of pace from the past puritan pacifist preacher shtick

...Um that dates this to 'The Cage' when Pike ran the Enterprise, where's those yellow and blue loose turtleneck uniforms? And last I checked 'The Cage' was still Prime Canon.

Tad more nitpicky...what's with the communication holograms? That was experimental in DS9, but apparently Vulcan Darth Sidious is having no trouble a century earlier.

That's what's probably most concerning about this series.

It suggests an utter lack of regard for continuity. And that, rather than just do a straight-up reboot, they're going to try to do a half-assed prequel that doesn't work as a prequel. It suggests that they've learned nothing from making the same damn mistake with Enterprise. You know, the show that sunk the franchise and made a reboot necessary in the first place?

Now, I'll grant that in lots of other ways, this looks much, much better than Enterprise. But still, this looks like some spectacular stupidity in the premise.

"Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?"

"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

-Generals William T. Sherman and Ulysses S Grant, the Battle of Shiloh.

"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"-Terry Pratchett's DEATH.

The Romulan Republic wrote:I mean, I kind of give them a pass on the new films because, awkward as it was at times, the concept of an alternate universe is well-established in Trek lore.

Indeed, why not a series in the Mirror Universe? You don't have to worry about continuity very much, the Terran Empire is extremely right wing, so you can be allegorical to current events, and you have fan-servicey uniforms already established! What's not to like?

I second the motion, given the 'grim dark' bent with many genres this day and age, a Terran Empire Series would do quite well

Additionally having humans as 'villain protagonists' would be a welcome change of pace from the past puritan pacifist preacher shtick

Ugg, no. We already have more than enough gratuitously grimdark shit, pandering to cynics and juveniles (or the mentally juvenile) who think that darker=more realistic=better. Or to fascists and internet tough guys who want brutal anti-hero protagonists to wank off to.

Even when dark is done relatively well (say, Game of Thrones?), there are lots of other shows that fill that niche. Star Trek doesn't need to be one of them.

I'd like to think that they could find a ground between "grimdark" and "preachy" (and grimdark is often preachy in its own way- it just preaches the gospel of moral ambiguity and "necessary evil").

Edit: I think the line for me is two-fold:

1. Dark is fine, if it has an intelligent purpose, but I don't care for fiction that indulges in darkness for the sake of darkness, for salaciousness or to prove how "mature" it is.

2. I need there to be some basically decent characters who I can actually want to see succeed.

"Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?"

"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

-Generals William T. Sherman and Ulysses S Grant, the Battle of Shiloh.

"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"-Terry Pratchett's DEATH.

I second TRR. As far as I'm concerned, the grimdark shit is long past its prime, and if I had the power I would honestly consider wiping GOT from the timeline just to prevent the toxic effect it's had on production of television shows these last few years. As much as I found the Roddenberry approach in TNG annoying, at least it was hopeful for the future. It's no wonder that the only TV show I consider "can't miss" these days is freaking Steven Universe (now that The Legend of Korra is done, and has been for two years plus.)

”A Radical is a man with both feet planted firmly in the air.” – Franklin Delano Roosevelt

American Conservatism is about the exercise of personal responsibility without state interference in the lives of the citizenry..... unless, of course, it involves using the bludgeon of state power to suppress things Conservatives do not like.

Elheru Aran wrote:...does it take place in the nu-Trek universe or something? Because that doesn't look -anything- like TOS.

Nope, Prime timeline. It's inevitable that a show made 50 years after TOS will look vastly different, for me personally aping its style is the least of my concerns.

Keeping it more in line with the original series wouldn't be "aping its style". Things such as the uniforms and the nu-Trek style bridge is jarring. And they should really have read the TOS Writer's Bible (that JJ Abrams apparently never did either): "The viewscreeen is not a window".

FedRebel wrote:Tad more nitpicky...what's with the communication holograms? That was experimental in DS9, but apparently Vulcan Darth Sidious is having no trouble a century earlier.

<nod> The whole visual style strikes me as a bit schitzophrenic, especially on the bridge set — OK, the bright shiny plastic sheets from the Abramsverse are gone, so I can at least see what the bridge looks like this time, but there's an odd mix of the cluttered reboot-style main screen/window and bridge stations that look like they've been taken from one of the post-TOS movies and repainted.

A very pretty ship, though, despite looking a bit too advanced to be pre-TOS era. But... does anyone else think it maybe looks a tiny little bit like the USS Ares...?

Iroscato wrote:Also, if that's the Discovery shown in the trailer, it looks very different and much, MUCH better than the piece of crap they showed in the concept teaser last year.

It's not the USS Discovery, but the USS Shenzhou (its registry, NCC-1227, can be seen in the trailer. The Discovery has the registry NCC-1031.). The Discovery isn't shown in the trailer at all. StarTrek.com released key art for the series yesterday which included a small Discovery with a design similar to that shown in the teaser, but with the nacelles possibly moved back a bit: StarTrek.com

Iroscato wrote:Also, if that's the Discovery shown in the trailer, it looks very different and much, MUCH better than the piece of crap they showed in the concept teaser last year.

It's not the USS Discovery, but the USS Shenzhou (its registry, NCC-1227, can be seen in the trailer. The Discovery has the registry NCC-1031.). The Discovery isn't shown in the trailer at all. StarTrek.com released key art for the series yesterday which included a small Discovery with a design similar to that shown in the teaser, but with the nacelles possibly moved back a bit: StarTrek.com

Eurgh, yeah I discovered (hyuk hyuk) this after I made the thread. Ah well, the ships design is very disappointing IMO, but maybe it'll grow on me. As said before, as long as the show's decent, design comes second for me.

Yeah, I've always taken the subtext of the Birther movement to be, "The rules don't count here! This is different! HE'S BLACK! BLACK, I SAY! ARE YOU ALL BLIND!?

- Raw Shark

Destiny and fate are for those too weak to forge their own futures. Where we are 'supposed' to be is irrelevent.

One problem with trailers is that it's much easier for a trailer to show the bad plot points than the good. Because bad plot points can look bad from a brief snippet, while good parts require a lot more viewing time to see that they are good. Too much time to fit in a trailer. For example, that hologram communication is a problem if it's real time communication due to such technology being experimental in DS9*. But if it's simply playing a recorded message, then that would fit better.

*From memory of that DS9 episode, the hologram communicator kept working when regular comms were down. Making me wonder if the experimental part was the hologram or if they were testing some new way of transmitting the data.

After months and months of waiting, CBS finally released the first trailer for Star Trek: Discovery yesterday (seen above) and one aspect stood out above all the rest: the Klingon’s new look.

The most notable difference between many of the Klingons in Star Trek: Discovery and the look of Klingons in, say, Star Trek: The Next Generation, as seen in the prosthetic makeup on Michael Dorn as Lieutenant Worf is the lack of ridges on the new Klingons’ foreheads. Unlike Worf, seen below, their foreheads are smooth, which has led to many fans theorizing that this is an ancient group of Klingons that slowly died out.

These ancient Klingons belonged to a group of alienated people who encountered humans on the edge of Federation space. In 2154, a group of Klingons managed to get their hands on Human Augments, a genetic material they used to try and improve their own genetic makeup. While this helped the Klingons become stronger and more intelligent, it also degraded their physical makeup. When one of the affected Klingons came down with a Levodian flu, the combination of the sickness and the genetic differences created an airborne, fatal plague that spread from world to world. This is all confirmed in Star Trek: Enterprise, one of the Star Trek series that happens to pre-date the Original Series.

It was in the early stages of this plague that these Klingons lost the ridges on their foreheads. It was only with the help of the Enterprise’s Dr. Phlox that a cure for the plague was discovered. Star Trek: The Original Series takes place in 2364, but again, Star Trek: Enterprise takes place before that. Considering Discovery takes place before the events of the original series, which focused on Captain James T. Kirk and his crew aboard the Enterprise, and just after Star Trek: Enterprise, the timeline allows the theory to potentially come to fruition.

The only counterargument is that the Klingons in the original series most likened humans. We know that because of the genetic mutation, they began to look more normal before a cure was found. If this is the storyline that CBS wants to take Discovery in, that will need to be addressed as these Klingons aren’t as similar to humans as their later counterparts.

One other interesting aspect about the ancient group of Klingons that should be acknowledged is how religious they were. In the trailer, it seems like the Klingons have gathered together for a religious ceremony. Combined with the lack of ridges on their forehead, it seems to suggest that one of the focal points of the series — along with the crew of the U.S.S Discovery — may be the ancient Klingons trying to save their quickly vanishing species.

Former showrunner Bryan Fuller mentioned that Discovery would focus on an important event from the original series that wasn’t ever examined in-depth, but didn’t mention anything specific about the Klingon race at the time.

I've never watched any of Enterprise beyond its first season so I can't comment on how well this fan theory fits. Another possibility is that they aren't Klingons, just some other species that got hold of Klingon ships.

I hoping they aren't Klingons. Maybe like Klingon allies, members of a client state to go with the Cold War allegory that TOS had. Like how the Soviets gave AKs, BTRs, Hinds, and MiGs to every freaking body maybe the Klingons are arming these whoever aliens with some Klingons tech to be used against the Federation without getting their hands dirty.

They look far too different in my opinion to be Klingons. Don't really fit any previous look of the Klingons, not the smooth headed "human" ones, not the ridge headed Viking wannabes, not even the ridged piercing obsessed Kelvin universe Klingons.

Also the Klingon wannabes from Discovery have nostrils that disturb me.

honestly add long hair and silly beard to the Kelvin klinks and wouldn't be that out of place in TNG, the discovery klinks on the other hand would stand out like a sore thumb and it's not like cannot do smooth headed klingons in the modern era, they did just that in the ENT augment klingon arc and they didn't look like a 1960s reject but rather klingons without forehead ridges.

hell if you put some sudtle emphasis on the brow and cheek bones with make-up and did minor updates to the uniforms (basically update the look from cheap 1960s scifi to military uniform) I you could use the TOS look.

I may be an idiot, but I'm a tolerated idiot
"I think you completely missed the point of sigs. They're supposed to be completely homegrown in the fertile hydroponics lab of your mind, dried in your closet, rolled, and smoked...
Oh wait, that's marijuana..."Einhander Sn0m4n

tezunegari wrote:Maybe the incident they are talking about is the first contact between Federation ships and Klingon Empire, which Picard stated was "bloody"?

Not sure if that would work; remember the first episode of Enterprise, where first contact would have to be fairly recent (some characters not quite familiar with the Klingon name, and IIRC the comms officer was still working on fluency in the language).

tezunegari wrote:Maybe the incident they are talking about is the first contact between Federation ships and Klingon Empire, which Picard stated was "bloody"?

Not sure if that would work; remember the first episode of Enterprise, where first contact would have to be fairly recent (some characters not quite familiar with the Klingon name, and IIRC the comms officer was still working on fluency in the language).

Technically, the first episode of Enterprise was the first contact between humans and klingons.

What I mean is the first time klingons encountered Federation ships after the Earth-Romulan War.

The klingons might have ignored the militarily weak humans in favor of more pressing issues at the time at the other side of their empire.
And then they suddenly have to face this Federation that uses mostly human ship designs and vulcan/andorian/tellarite technology and presenting a united fleet or singular enemy instead of several smaller ones.

"Bring your thousands, I have my axe."
"Bring your cannons, I have my armor."
"Bring your mighty... I am my own champion."
Cue Unit-01 ramming half the Lance of Longinus down Adam's head and a bemused Gendo, "Wrong end, son."

tezunegari wrote:Technically, the first episode of Enterprise was the first contact between humans and klingons.

What I mean is the first time klingons encountered Federation ships after the Earth-Romulan War.

The klingons might have ignored the militarily weak humans in favor of more pressing issues at the time at the other side of their empire.
And then they suddenly have to face this Federation that uses mostly human ship designs and vulcan/andorian/tellarite technology and presenting a united fleet or singular enemy instead of several smaller ones.

That would be odd, considering that Earth and Qo'noS are weirdly close, and had repeated, significant interactions throughout Enterprise.

"Oh no, oh yeah, tell me how can it be so fair
That we dying younger hiding from the police man over there
Just for breathing in the air they wanna leave me in the chair
Electric shocking body rocking beat streeting me to death"
- A.B. Original, Report to the Mist

"I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately."
- George Carlin

tezunegari wrote:Technically, the first episode of Enterprise was the first contact between humans and klingons.

What I mean is the first time klingons encountered Federation ships after the Earth-Romulan War.

The klingons might have ignored the militarily weak humans in favor of more pressing issues at the time at the other side of their empire.
And then they suddenly have to face this Federation that uses mostly human ship designs and vulcan/andorian/tellarite technology and presenting a united fleet or singular enemy instead of several smaller ones.

That would be odd, considering that Earth and Qo'noS are weirdly close, and had repeated, significant interactions throughout Enterprise.

The UFP didn't exist during most of the time period that Enterprise covers.

mr friendly guy wrote:I am cautiously optimistic based on what I have heard. Although if they are keeping it to the prime Trek line, why don't they set it in the early 25th century or something. Then they can bring back old favourites as elderly versions of their characters.

In any event, it appears to be two ships mainly here. The aforementioned USS Discovery and also the ship commanded by Michelle Yeoh's character, the Shenzhou.

I do quite like the idea of having *two* major ships.

The trailers are a bit too 'modern big dramatic' but there's some good parts too.

You should see reddit - they think they're the Q, ancient Borg, ancient Dominion, maybe the Breen, may....

Maybe they're just a one off name, like the other 10,000 random one off names in the show.

As for First Contact with the Klingons, it can't be.

The first official UFP Contact would have been ... like... a day after the UFP was formed. The Vulcans, Humans, Tellerites and Andorians all knew the Klingons, some even traded with them. Hell, Archer, the first President of the UFP, has visited their homeworld. Twice.

The UFP was formed in what, 2160s? This takes place in the 2240s or 2250s. There's no possible (sane) way that First Contact between the UFP and Klingon Empire was in the 2240s. It's not possible.

It might be the first fleet action against each other, but it can't be First Contact no matter how you look at it.