I'm at a loss as to where to go with this so maybe somebody in thisgroup can help.

I want to install Windows in bootcamp strictly so I can run the AssettoCorsa driving simulation. The problem is I am paranoid and believe infrequent backups, which I can't do in bootcamp without adding harddrives, backup software, etc.

My solution is to keep everything in a download directory in my Macpartition and install it in windows from a flash drive, which is prettymuch the way bootcamp does it.

This would be fine for a simple executable that I could drag-and-dropbut I have been told, perhaps wrongly, that I have to download thissoftware directly to the bootcamp partition using the steam app, whichalso must be installed in the partition.

Is that the only way to do it or is there a way to download the softwareto the mac as outlined above?

Post by Robert PeirceI'm at a loss as to where to go with this so maybe somebody in thisgroup can help.I want to install Windows in bootcamp strictly so I can run the AssettoCorsa driving simulation.

Have you considered running it instead in VMware Fusion or ParallelsDesktop?

Post by Robert PeirceThe problem is I am paranoid and believe infrequent backups, which I can't do in bootcamp without adding harddrives, backup software, etc.

With a VM, you could just let Time Machine back them up.

Post by Robert PeirceMy solution is to keep everything in a download directory in my Macpartition and install it in windows from a flash drive, which is prettymuch the way bootcamp does it.This would be fine for a simple executable that I could drag-and-dropbut I have been told, perhaps wrongly, that I have to download thissoftware directly to the bootcamp partition using the steam app, whichalso must be installed in the partition.Is that the only way to do it or is there a way to download the softwareto the mac as outlined above?

Are you new to Steam? The way Steam works is you install the Steam app,run it, buy and install the games you want within the Steam app. I don'trecall how it is for Windows (probably the same), but on Mac, onceyou've installed a game, it appears in your Applications folder (orwherever you have the Steam app) as a separate icon that you candouble-click to start the game from outside of the Steam app.

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Post by Jolly RogerHave you considered running it instead in VMware Fusion or ParallelsDesktop?

I did but it is my understanding the overhead slows things down and thatis not the case with bootcamp. However, I don't know that, so what's thereal story? Obviously, one of these emulators would solve all myproblems if they would work well for me.

Post by Jolly RogerAre you new to Steam? The way Steam works is you install the Steam app,run it, buy and install the games you want within the Steam app. I don'trecall how it is for Windows (probably the same), but on Mac, onceyou've installed a game, it appears in your Applications folder (orwherever you have the Steam app) as a separate icon that you candouble-click to start the game from outside of the Steam app.

I know nothing about Steam. In the past, when I bought a program fromanybody it either came with an installer or it was simple drag-and-drop.I experimented with the bootcamp installation and that seems to workthe same. I copied an installer program from a flash drive, executed itand the program was installed as hoped. Therefore, I could keep theinstaller program on my Mac and re-use it as needed, but I couldn't keepthe final program on my Mac, which is what I want to do. That's theissue with Assetto Corsa. Again, a suitable emulator would eliminatethis problem. So please tell me they would work for me!!

Post by Jolly RogerHave you considered running it instead in VMware Fusion or ParallelsDesktop?

I did but it is my understanding the overhead slows things down andthat is not the case with bootcamp.

Not necessarily, no - definitely not as a rule.

Post by Robert PeirceHowever, I don't know that, so what's the real story? Obviously, oneof these emulators would solve all my problems if they would work wellfor me.

The vast majority of Windows applications run very speedily with almostno speed decrease in a VM. Games may or may not run well, but whetherthey run well depends on the requirements of each app. Some games runfine, others need direct access to the video hardware for bestperformance. Unless you happen to find someone else who is running thatexact game through Steam in a VM, you just have to try it for yourself.You'd have to purchase Fusion/Desktop, but you won't have to mess withpartitions or Boot Camp, and you won't have to restart to run Windowsstuff.

Post by Jolly RogerAre you new to Steam? The way Steam works is you install the Steamapp, run it, buy and install the games you want within the Steam app.I don't recall how it is for Windows (probably the same), but on Mac,once you've installed a game, it appears in your Applications folder(or wherever you have the Steam app) as a separate icon that you candouble-click to start the game from outside of the Steam app.

I know nothing about Steam. In the past, when I bought a program fromanybody it either came with an installer or it was simpledrag-and-drop.

That's not how Steam games work. You have to purchase and install Steamgames from within the Steam application.

Post by Robert PeirceI experimented with the bootcamp installation and that seems to workthe same. I copied an installer program from a flash drive,executed it and the program was installed as hoped. Therefore, Icould keep the installer program on my Mac and re-use it as needed,but I couldn't keep the final program on my Mac, which is what Iwant to do. That's the issue with Assetto Corsa.

It's hard to figure out exactly what you are trying to say here. Again,with Steam, the Steam application itself *is* the installer. So if youwant to re-install a Steam game, you run the Steam application andinstall it from there. On Steam for Mac, once a game is installed, anicon appears for that game next to the Steam application icon. You candouble-click that icon to run the game from outside of the Steamapplication from that point onward.

Post by Robert PeirceAgain, a suitable emulator would eliminate this problem. So pleasetell me they would work for me!!

Virtual machines are *not* emulators!

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... Unless you happen to find someone else who is running that exactgame through Steam in a VM, you just have to try it for yourself.You'd have to purchase Fusion/Desktop, but you won't have to mess withpartitions or Boot Camp, and you won't have to restart to runWindows stuff.

... Unless you happen to find someone else who is running that exactgame through Steam in a VM, you just have to try it for yourself.You'd have to purchase Fusion/Desktop, but you won't have to mess withpartitions or Boot Camp, and you won't have to restart to runWindows stuff.

There is a trial version of VMware Fusion.

Good to know!

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Post by Jolly RogerHave you considered running it instead in VMware Fusion or ParallelsDesktop?

I did but it is my understanding the overhead slows things down and thatis not the case with bootcamp. However, I don't know that, so what's thereal story? Obviously, one of these emulators would solve all myproblems if they would work well for me.

I play a lot of driving sims in BootCamp (including AC), and none ofthem come remotely close to being playable in Fusion or Parallels, ifthey even start up at all. So don't waste your time trying.

Steam games do need to be installed directly from the Steam client, inWindows.

For backing up the Boot Camp partition, I used to use a handly littlefree app from Paragon called (funnily enough) BootCamp Backup. It wasnice because it ran in OS X, and incrementally backed up your BCpartition to any destination of your choice.

Unfortunately they've discontinued it and it no longer seems to workproperly. Similar functionality now seems to be part of their Hard DiskManager for Mac, which costs $40, but I haven't tried that.

Post by Jolly RogerHave you considered running it instead in VMware Fusion or ParallelsDesktop?

I did but it is my understanding the overhead slows things down and thatis not the case with bootcamp. However, I don't know that, so what's thereal story? Obviously, one of these emulators would solve all myproblems if they would work well for me.

I play a lot of driving sims in BootCamp (including AC), and none ofthem come remotely close to being playable in Fusion or Parallels, ifthey even start up at all. So don't waste your time trying.Steam games do need to be installed directly from the Steam client, inWindows.For backing up the Boot Camp partition, I used to use a handly littlefree app from Paragon called (funnily enough) BootCamp Backup. It wasnice because it ran in OS X, and incrementally backed up your BCpartition to any destination of your choice.Unfortunately they've discontinued it and it no longer seems to workproperly. Similar functionality now seems to be part of their Hard DiskManager for Mac, which costs $40, but I haven't tried that.

I'm not sure there's much to actually back up in Bootcamp. Windows can bereinstalled. Steam and the game can be too. The only thing you'd need to keepis the Assetto Corsa save file itself, if that's important. You could just geta OneDrive, Dropbox or Google Drive account and back it up there from withinWindows.

FWIW I have Steam on Bootcamp and backup my saves to my Synology NAS with thesupplied Cloud Drive software. I also back them up from macOS (along withother stuff also on Bootcamp) using Crashplan.

You could also have a script that copies them every so often from yourBootcamp drive to your macOS drive, which in turn is backed up via(presumably) Time Machine.

Post by deKayI'm not sure there's much to actually back up in Bootcamp. Windows can bereinstalled. Steam and the game can be too. The only thing you'd need to keepis the Assetto Corsa save file itself, if that's important. You could just geta OneDrive, Dropbox or Google Drive account and back it up there from withinWindows.

That was my thought. I figured I could dump any important volatilestuff to a flash drive.

Post by deKayYou could also have a script that copies them every so often from yourBootcamp drive to your macOS drive, which in turn is backed up via(presumably) Time Machine.

Okay. I didn't know that was possible. What's the procedure? I didn'tthink OS X could read a bootcamp partition.

Post by CalumI play a lot of driving sims in BootCamp (including AC), and none ofthem come remotely close to being playable in Fusion or Parallels, ifthey even start up at all. So don't waste your time trying.

Good to know about Parallels before I worry about trying it.

I did try putting Assetto Corsa on a bootcamp partition and discoveredit wasn't large enough. Apparently AC needs 20-30Gb free. I have a256Gb SSD and can't spare the space. The solution at this point is toinstall a larger drive or to get a computer just for gaming. An add-ondrive is another option but less suitable for carrying about.

Post by CalumI play a lot of driving sims in BootCamp (including AC), and none ofthem come remotely close to being playable in Fusion or Parallels, ifthey even start up at all. So don't waste your time trying.

I forgot a most important question. How might AC work for me inbootcamp? I have a Mid 2012 MBP Retina with a 2.3GHz i7 and the NvidiaGeForce GT 650M, whatever that is!

I've been checking and it appears it is pretty easy to swap out an SSDfor a larger unit for not much money. I cold easily go to 1Tb and splitit down the middle.

Post by CalumI play a lot of driving sims in BootCamp (including AC), and none ofthem come remotely close to being playable in Fusion or Parallels, ifthey even start up at all. So don't waste your time trying.

I forgot a most important question. How might AC work for me inbootcamp? I have a Mid 2012 MBP Retina with a 2.3GHz i7 and the NvidiaGeForce GT 650M, whatever that is!

See the system requirements and recommendations:

http://store.steampowered.com/app/244210

At a glance, the only question mark is whether the GeForce GT 650M isgoing to meet the minimum requirements. You'd need to work out whetherit is at least as good as the GeForce GT 460 (non-mobile). I wouldn'texpect the graphics to get anywhere near the recommended level (e.g.GeForce GTX 970).

You should be able to find graphics benchmarks via online searches, e.g.Anandtech might have something relevant. That should give some idea.

Post by Robert PeirceI've been checking and it appears it is pretty easy to swap out an SSDfor a larger unit for not much money.

Have you been looking at the details for the right model? Retina MacBookPros have proprietary Apple solid state drive modules (they do not use2.5-inch SATA drives), and Apple doesn't sell aftermarket capacityupgrades.

As far as I know, there is only one range of third party SSDs available,from Other World Computing.

(Yes, I know the URL mentions "15-inch late 2012" which doesn't existbut that is just a minor error in OWC's categories - these are SSDs forthe first generation of Retina MacBook Pro hardware: June 2012 15-inchmodel, October 2012 13-inch model, and the January 2013 minor updates ofboth.)

Post by David EmpsonAs far as I know, there is only one range of third party SSDs available,from Other World Computing.https://eshop.macsales.com/upgrades/macbook-pro-retina-15-inch-late-2012-2.3-ghz/internal-drives

Transcend has similar offers:<https://www.transcend-info.com/apple/jetdrive/>

Post by David EmpsonAs far as I know, there is only one range of third party SSDs available,from Other World Computing.https://eshop.macsales.com/upgrades/macbook-pro-retina-15-inch-late-2012h-2.3-g z/internal-drives

<https://www.transcend-info.com/apple/jetdrive/>

Thanks for the correction. I hadn't noticed Transcend had done a rangefor the Mid 2012 to Early 2013 Retina MacBook Pro.

Another small correction to my previous post: the drive module in theMid 2012 to Early 2013 Retina MacBook Pro does use SATA (but it stillisn't a 2.5-inch form factor). It is the later models (Late 2013 andnewer) which use PCIe.

Post by David EmpsonAs far as I know, there is only one range of third party SSDs available,from Other World Computing.https://eshop.macsales.com/upgrades/macbook-pro-retina-15-inch-late-2012-2.3-ghz/internal-drives

Post by David EmpsonAs far as I know, there is only one range of third party SSDs available,from Other World Computing.https://eshop.macsales.com/upgrades/macbook-pro-retina-15-inch-late-2012-2.3-ghz/internal-drives

This seems to be the same item OWC sells and at the same price.

macsales.com is OWC's web site.

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Post by David EmpsonAt a glance, the only question mark is whether the GeForce GT 650M isgoing to meet the minimum requirements. You'd need to work out whetherit is at least as good as the GeForce GT 460 (non-mobile). I wouldn'texpect the graphics to get anywhere near the recommended level (e.g.GeForce GTX 970).

I found a comparison site and the GTX 970 is about 600% faster. Itranked 24 of 535 GPUs tested. The GT 650M ranked 195.

However, I found another site that suggested AC is more CPU intensivethan GPU. So, I guess the question remains. If you are running AC on aMBP, are you getting good results? If so, I can get a bigger drive. Ifnot, I may have to buy a PC.

Post by David EmpsonAt a glance, the only question mark is whether the GeForce GT 650M isgoing to meet the minimum requirements. You'd need to work out whetherit is at least as good as the GeForce GT 460 (non-mobile). I wouldn'texpect the graphics to get anywhere near the recommended level (e.g.GeForce GTX 970).

I found a comparison site and the GTX 970 is about 600% faster. Itranked 24 of 535 GPUs tested. The GT 650M ranked 195.However, I found another site that suggested AC is more CPU intensivethan GPU. So, I guess the question remains. If you are running AC on aMBP, are you getting good results? If so, I can get a bigger drive. Ifnot, I may have to buy a PC.

Define "good results". ; ) In most games you can adjust the resolutionto a lower setting to increase performance. Depending on your graphicscard and display, the resolution you choose may be lower or higher,which will in turn affect performance (video refresh rates). There'slittle doubt your GT 650M will perform well at lower resolutions, andprobably not as well as other cards with higher resolutions. Assumingthe game you want to play allows you to adjust the resolution (most do)it should be fairly easy for you to find a sweet spot between the twoextremes.

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