and a friend who wants to help asked to see how i draw to give me a few pointers (these are just 5 minute drawings total so umm... yeah i know... i added feet to the first one because i wanted the practice, which isnt how working from reference is i know

@Farbe: You've got a good start on the reffed figures, but there are a few quick things that I think could help you out a bit with them.

1) The stick-figure gesture built on with construction is a good approach, but I'd encourage you to use an elongated sphere for your basic ribcage shape, rather than making up a fictional sphere between the two shoulders as you have it. This will help with the solidity of the torso, and makes more anatomical sense- no need to make things up when the real thing is easier and more useful.

2) Try to take your time measuring. I know you said these are 5 minute studies, but spending the time to learn measuring skills will pay off pretty big pretty quick. By measuring, I mean constantly checking the angles between the various landmarks of the figure to make sure that they are placed accurately, and to make sure you don't let your mind default into making assumptions, rather than drawing from observation.

For example, on the orange lady, you've drawn a line down the center of the face with your construction, and that's good- but try holding the side of your pencil up to your monitor, and match the angle of the line you drew, and then do the same with where that line would be on the photo. You'll see that your line is much more straight vertical than the reference's. This is because, for whatever reason, the mind likes to straighten up things into horizontals and verticals, and it takes some effort and practice to fight that habit when drawing.

Similarly, if you look at the white straps on her legs, you've drawn them straight across- this would seem to make sense, logically, as you know that on that costume that those straps are in the same location on both legs. However, given the pose, and the perspective, you'll notice by measuring with the side of the pencil, there's a downward angle between them.

Now, this is just the stuff that seems, had I just said, 'hey, the head needs more tilt and there should be an angle between the straps', would have accomplished the same thing as going on about measuring, because once it's pointed out, it seems obvious. But where measuring really starts to work its magic is knowing how to use it to figure out subtler problems. Take the last picture, for example. Measure the side of the left heel versus the left armpit. You didn't consciously notice it, but your mind straightened that angle up vertically for you. Measure the angle between the back of the heels- it's gone horizontal. The result of this is you end up losing out on a lot of the dynamic feel of the reference, because of 100 little subtle and seemingly insignificant things adding up.

3) Pay attention to negative space. A good example here is observing the space between the legs in each reference. In the first, you've got the point where the legs meet correct, but look at the shape below that- in the ref, it forms a sharp triangle shape. In the drawing, you've introduced some muscularity in the calves that break up that triangle into a squished hourglass shape.

This demonstrates again that your mind is feeding you some information that, while good, is not accurate to what you're seeing. Your mind knows calves exist on people, and if you're drawing a person, they should have calves. You mind has a general idea of what calves look like, and has drawn them in. Should work, right? Unfortunately, what your mind hasn't accounted for is how calves look in this situation. The left leg is at an angle, meaning most of the muscle is at the back (left side) and toward the viewer, while the right side is straighter, owing to it being closer to the leg bones.

On the second pic, you'll notice that the area between the legs is significantly wider and shorter in the drawing than the reference. Getting that shape accurate would lend a lot of credence to the legs there. While these are the easiest things to point out, again, it's using this subtly that will bring improvement quickly. In that third pic, imagine a line between the right elbow and the corner formed by the top of the butt and the bottom of the ribcage. You wind up with a solid little triangle between that line and the armpit, which is easy to observe, measure, and get accurate.

I know this might all seem like some dreadfully boring shit, but if you give it a fair shake (and have a lot of patience), you'll likely start to see the benefits in pretty short order.

many thanks for your time and consideration bacon, I really do appreciate that some truely talented people take the time to help, right not im really trying to improve my focus (as you say im being lazy with my reference) and drawing longer lines (well yes i did a piss poor job of that but goals... goals and such)

I hope to incorporate some of what you said in my drawings tomorrow as my ones from today are arse

I just found this thread! I used to post in G&T all the time but now I hardly ever grace people with my presence. Anyway I'm going to draw more this year because I have nothing else to do here in Korea. I'll probably bite the bullet and make my own thread.

In two weeks I'll have access to a scanner but in the meantime, here is the cover of my sketchbook:

And here's some stuff I did for the New Years Resolution thread last year before I quit like a baby:

I had this big thing typed up about concepts of songwriting. After posting it I decided that was just the most worthless pile of critique I've ever seen, and I'd need someone to critique my crit... So instead of talking about abstract terms reguarding concepts of songwriting, I'm going to start in the same place you start with any artistic medium. Structure.

I don't know where you are in understanding music, and I'm about to start off at ground level, so forgive me if I'm being too basic.

In visual art you start with structure.
If you draw the human form, you begin with what makes up the human form, anatomy. When drawing objects you find the basic shapes that make up the object.
In film you have things like storyboards, you have blocking for the actors, and a script to guide the film.
In songwriting, there are similar tools that give your song structure.

Unlike visual arts, there are varieties of song structures and theories as to what makes a song structure good. I'm not going to critique you about abstracts like verse, chorus, bridge, breaks, lyrics, or variety. I'm going to critique you on the most basic of basics.

Tempo
There's a lot of information there, but I'll summarize. Tempo is the speed of your music, and is broken down into beats. The beat is the glue of your music, it holds everything together by giving it a foundation, and a set of guidlines to place your notes. Measures are groups of "beats" using notes (quarter notes, 1/4 a measure, half notes 1/2 a measure, whole notes 1 measure) These measures are a typical duration for an electronica/dance/techno song to repeat.

What you need to take away from the topic of Tempo is the beat. Towards the end of the song you loose track of the beat and begin speaking lazily and off beat, and it just sounds like a dude talking with a drum program in the background. Pay strict attention to the beat and tempo as you're recording, because its the first thing people will hear.

Dynamics
This is essentially the variation in volume in your music. The biggest mistake I see early song writers do is add NO variation to volume in their music. Listen to any music you have at home and you'll find that parts of the song are louder than the others, and others are softer. A good songwriter adds these where its needed to add weight and to add emotion to a section of their song. A bad songwriter will not use dynamics, or use dynamics for no reason. Will a section slowly get louder as it progresses, will it stay the same volume or get quieter? Will there be a sharp increase in volume? These are things to think about.Melody
This is what most people think of when they think "music". This is what makes your song unique, what makes it different than other songs. The website I linked describes a melody as follows "Melody is one of the most basic elements of music. A note is a sound with a particular pitch and duration. String a series of notes together, one after the other, and you have a melody."

Even the most simplistic forms of music (i.e. Rap, Electronica) have melody. At at the most basic level, rappers at least use emphasis and tone to make their lyrics stand out, You didn't have what anyone would call melody, just a lot of toneless synthetic drums, and you talking.

When you combine these elements together you can start building a song.

Now, I don't want to leave you discouraged, so what I want you to do to practice incorporating these elements into music, I want you to create a rendition of a few famous basic songs. These songs are used DAY 1 when teaching someone to play any instrument. I want you to create your image of these songs, in whatever form you desire, BUT INCORPORATING THE ELEMENTS LISTED ABOVE.

Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star
Mary Had a Little Lamb
Happy Birthday

Go as crazy as you want, make something hilarious, badass, heavy, sad, happy, ANY WAY YOU WANT, but use these as practice to use the basic song structures, as a visual artist does PAGES of basic 3d shapes, and post them on here so I can critique you further.

The fact that you have interest in making music shows that you have potential enough to become a good songwriter, even your favorite artist started somewhere. I'd love to see you improve!

So um hi. I'm ProtoSound. I lurk around here often to check out the awesome artists here. I've always been interested in drawing but never really serious about it until now. I want to learn so any help and tips are mucho appreciated.

I did a reference sketch today from photos I found on the internet to try my hand at drawing people. I didn't really go into too much detail because I started getting a wicked bad headache and just wanted to finish them. The male is completely messed up and I screwed up pretty bad on the female. Any advice here or in general would be great.

Here are some doodles I did at work on post-its with gel ink. I think I prefer ink over pencil. but again, not that good

Your best bet is to continue working from references and seek out learning materials (books and websites).
Try keeping your drawings simple at the moment and don't get bogged down in little details that don't progress your learning.

Yeah but always try to utilize references as much as possible. Imagination teaches you nothing about the fundamentals of drawing.

Yup keep studying and bone up on some anatomy if that's what you'd like to get better at. Try building your figures out of basic shapes or simple skeletal structures at first. The ones that you posted are anatomically screwy, most notably that dudes waist. Learning to draw the body in various poses is one of the hardest things to do, and it takes a lot of focus and practice to get it right.