Beer Trader

It was an interesting article, but I don't really understand what the point of all that was. AB-InBev is a giant international monster company. Im pretty sure everyone already knew that. That's why this website is made up of people that don't buy any of their products. I am having troubling figuring out what the controversy is.

Beer Trader

It was an interesting article, but I don't really understand what the point of all that was. AB-InBev is a giant international monster company. Im pretty sure everyone already knew that. That's why this website is made up of people that don't buy any of their products. I am having troubling figuring out what the controversy is.

It was an interesting article, but I don't really understand what the point of all that was. AB-InBev is a giant international monster company. Im pretty sure everyone already knew that. That's why this website is made up of people that don't buy any of their products. I am having troubling figuring out what the controversy is.

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My take is that the article paints AB under the Busch family as an enormous, but still sentimental corporation. This ruthless Brazillian bean counter comes in and focuses only on dollar signs.

It's a big stretch imho. Cost cutting flavor killing compromises were going on long before Inbev got their hands on the company. Pre-takeover AB had the same bottom-line focus the merged company has.

Beer Trader

As a businessperson who drinks beer, my comment would be that it is the lunacy bred by the short term focus of quarterly results that comes with public companies! I don't think he's running a great business. He's a running a business to get great short-term results...some of these moves are wise, but some of them are incredibly stupid long-term IMO.

That gives a good overview of ABInbev's way of conducting business. How long can they continue to cut costs and raise prices before there is serious consumer backlash? The Winking Lizard pubs in Ohio announced this week they're pulling Bud Light taps due to price increases, maybe that's where it begins?

Beer Trader

Except for the dozens of threads searching out every bottle of BCBS people can find.

Note: I'm actually fairly happy with the GI buyout so far, since it doesn't seem to have affected the Chicago-brewed stuff and we've gotten lots of nice things.

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I did overlook the Goose Island buyout. At the end of the day, InBev, MillerCoors, Goose Island and all the other craft breweries are for-profit companies. They all want the maximum market share they can get. It basically comes down to their different buisness models. We buy the craft beer because we feel it is a far supperior product and are happy to pay more for the quality. The other side is willing to go for the inferior mass produced cheap buzz. The big guys got that big because the vast majority of the world is in column B.

Beer Trader

I believe most of the responses missed an important point. Beck's sales are down 14% in food stores ostensibly because of the change in the beer. Now think New Coke vs. Classic Coke. People do not like their favorite products to be changed, especially for the worse. So if Beck drinkers are turning away from Beck's perhaps they are turning to craft beer rather than back to other adjunct lagers. And the title of the post should be "the plot to destroy Beck's beer" since in America, there are a vast number of other choices and although InBev owns a major market share, nobody is forcing you to buy their products.

Yet some Hoegaarden drinkers say the flavor of the beer changed. “I think now it’s not as distinctive tasting,” says Iain Loe, spokesman for the Campaign for Real Ale, an advocacy group for pubs and beer drinkers. “You often see when a local brand is taken over by a global brewer, the production is raised a lot. If you’re trying to produce a lot of beer, you don’t want a beer that some people may object to the taste of it, so you may actually make the taste a little blander.” (Vallis’s response: “The brand’s commitment to quality has never changed.”)

Beer Trader

None of this is too surprising. I'm not very worried; craft beer has always occupied a niche market that isn't going away with the expansion of Ab InBev. I mean, their expansion isn't really cutting into craft profits, because that demographic is pretty much unaffected by it. As long as we're still here, craft breweries will still exist.

None of this is too surprising. I'm not very worried; craft beer has always occupied a niche market that isn't going away with the expansion of Ab InBev. I mean, their expansion isn't really cutting into craft profits, because that demographic is pretty much unaffected by it. As long as we're still here, craft breweries will still exist.

Beer Trader

What was this thread about? Oh yeah the plot to destroy beer.

With Thanksgiving coming up it oughta be said and noted, that despite this supposed gorrilla of a company, most Americans have easy access to the finest variety of fantastic beer likely ever seen in the history of the world.

Despite the plot to destroy beer all the breweries making really good beer are doing really well. Brewery expansion is well under way at facilities across the country.

And don't minimize the fact that only a brewery as big as Budweiser is capable of doing many things smaller ones cannot. Buying and dedicating an entire facility to a barrel aging project is one of them.

I said if Bud ever did something really really good I would say thank you. Here it is.

Thank you for the cases of Bourbon County Stout that I and some of those I know now have in our cellars.

Beer Trader

None of this is too surprising. I'm not very worried; craft beer has always occupied a niche market that isn't going away with the expansion of Ab InBev. I mean, their expansion isn't really cutting into craft profits, because that demographic is pretty much unaffected by it. As long as we're still here, craft breweries will still exist.

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I'm not worried either. Many craft breweries would not sell out to a company like this. New Glarus is one of them.

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I had read this today at the gym and meant to post a link. I'm glad someone is more on the ball than I am. I thought it was a good read and a good insight into how they are growing their bottom line. I rarely drink a Becks, but one of my locals had is on special and I had a few, I thought the taste had changed (for the worst), but thought that it was due to my changing tastes not the beers. Now I'm not so sure.

Subscriber

lets not forget the ONLY reason the big 3 are so big is because of prohibition. When it ended only those who had the capital to ride it out and switch production to sodas or malt syrups were left standing.

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Of the 600 or so US brewing companies that re-opened after Repeal, the two now-combined companies that make up the other half of the US Big Two, MillerCoors, were relatively small and didn't even come close to the half million barrel mark which would have put them close to the Top Ten US brewers. Miller had climbed to #18 by 1940 (and were only at #4 in Milwaukee alone).

25 years after Repeal in '58, Miller was #11 and Coors had risen to #18 and the so-called "BMC" brewing companies had 12½% of the US market. The so-called "BMC" Big 3 dominance of the US brewing industry wouldn't come about until 1990.

After Repeal, 15-20% of US beer production was ale - so, 3 to 4 times larger than today's "craft beer" percentage of the market (and that's not counting dark lagers and seasonal bocks that many lager brewers still routinely offered).

(I don't want to say adjunct bc back then there was very little used but barley) that is what you buy.

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In 1934, based on total industry usage, the average barrel of beer contained 13.8 pounds of adjuncts (corn, sugar/syrup and rice) compared to 38 pounds of barley malt. That was actually a higher barley malt ratio than before WWI's grain rationing and Prohibition, when the industry average was 35.8 lbs/bbl. barley malt vs. 17.1 lbs of corn/sugar-syrup/rice/"other grains".

All-malt beers, though they did exist, were relatively rare in the 20th century US brewing industry in the years before and after Prohibition.

Point is, the history of beer in the US in the 20th century is not so simple.

Beer Trader

True that. It's amusing to see how many people will speak out against BMC here, but when Goose Island comes up it's all, "If it tastes good, who cares who makes it?"

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If a delicious beer is available at a great price I am ready to buy it. For me, not buying BMC has almost nothing to do with their ruthless pursuit of shelfspace dominance, but the taste of what they sell.

Except for the dozens of threads searching out every bottle of BCBS people can find.

Note: I'm actually fairly happy with the GI buyout so far, since it doesn't seem to have affected the Chicago-brewed]

I spoke with a couple of folks from ABI during the GABF and it appears as though BCBS production is going to move to the AB Brewery in St. Louis. There is room for 5000 Bourbon barrels there and would be able to handle production much better. The Fulton St brewery would produce the high gravity Begian Beers and Sours.

The guy mentioned lost all credibility with me after his professed love for becks.

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Many years ago (pre-1985 or so) it was pretty good. The quality of the German Beck's was in a long decline before the St. Louis knockoff was dreamed of. Spaten too. Twenty years ago, it was one of my 3 favorite brands, and the Oktoberfest was great as recently as 1999. Now it's bland, stale garbage. There are bean counters in Germany too.

The beer industry measures bitterness using a scale called International Bitterness Units. The higher number of IBU's, the greater the bitterness. Over the past twenty years the IBU's of most American-style lagers has dramatically declined, from roughly 15-20 IBU's to fewer than 10 today, according to the Siebel Institute, a Chicago laboratory and brewing school that tests beer.

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Anheuser didn't talk publicly about it, but the brewer also recently made changes in its brewing process to correct for over-lightening. In August 2003, Mr. Busch met with hops growers in Oregon and Washington and told them that Anheuser was planning to increase the proportion of hops used in its beers, according to several people who were there.
Mr. Busch confirms the account, saying in a written statement: "I told the growers of our desire to use more hops in our brewing for the purpose of delivering more amplitude and hop flavor in Budweiser."
Mr. Muhleman adds that Anheuser makes changes all the time to maintain consistency. "When we've made changes, they haven't always been in the direction in removing hops," Mr. Muhleman says. "Sometimes we had more."

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Nothing that surprises, but it's always interesting to get a sense of how the big breweries operate behind the scenes (or behind all of the marketing), especially when it comes to the actual beer they produce. It may be bland tasting (though I wouldn't say bad tasting since I enjoy most lagers), but it's hardly a product of happenstance.

Many years ago (pre-1985 or so) it was pretty good. The quality of the German Beck's was in a long decline before the St. Louis knockoff was dreamed of. Spaten too. Twenty years ago, it was one of my 3 favorite brands, and the Oktoberfest was great as recently as 1999. Now it's bland, stale garbage. There are bean counters in Germany too.

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In defense of "bean counters", how do you think SN delivers at such a good price point? Good "bean counters" is a major part of the answer.

In defense of "bean counters", how do you think SN delivers at such a good price point? Good "bean counters" is a major part of the answer.

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Very good point about SN. They continue to get better as they get bigger. Bean counting is obviously necessary, but it should be balanced by other considerations. I think SN asks, "How can we keep costs reasonable without sacrificing quality"? while Inbev just asks, "How can we cut costs"? Very short sighted, IMO. My hope is that someday SN will be big enough to buy Inbev (though Inbev's behavior is a big shot in the arm to craft beer, and probably wine too, as their quality continues to decline).

Beer Trader

I'm not worried either. Many craft breweries would not sell out to a company like this. New Glarus is one of them.

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Dan and Deb will want to retire eventually. Given that they could probably sell today for $50+ million (the new facility alone is worth $20+ million), there probably aren't to many individuals who have that kind of spare cash and the desire to own a brewery, which means that it would most likely be a private investment firm that buys them. Once an investment firm has a hold of them, all it takes is for AB or MillerCoors to come along and offer them the right amount and the investment firm will sell.

It's not something we as beer geeks want to think about, but the "first generation" craft beer owners like the Careys and the Grossmans are going to have to sell eventually, and the price tags will be higher than anyone below "the 1%" can afford.

Beer Trader

Dan and Deb will want to retire eventually. Given that they could probably sell today for $50+ million (the new facility alone is worth $20+ million), there probably aren't to many individuals who have that kind of spare cash and the desire to own a brewery, which means that it would most likely be a private investment firm that buys them. Once an investment firm has a hold of them, all it takes is for AB or MillerCoors to come along and offer them the right amount and the investment firm will sell.

It's not something we as beer geeks want to think about, but the "first generation" craft beer owners like the Careys and the Grossmans are going to have to sell eventually, and the price tags will be higher than anyone below "the 1%" can afford.

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Grossman is trying to groom his kids to take over, Brian is going to be leading the NC brewery. I kinda doubt they'll provide quite the same vision or work-ethic as Ken though, so we'll see what happens.

I believe most of the responses missed an important point. Beck's sales are down 14% in food stores ostensibly because of the change in the beer. Now think New Coke vs. Classic Coke. People do not like their favorite products to be changed, especially for the worse.

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I am curious if that is the actual reason, or if it is just AB-Inbev deciding to not promote Beck's as much compared to more profitable brands. I mean if they are promoting Beck's less, doing less advertising and getting it into fewer bars and stores of course sales are going to be down. I read a book awhile back about Canadian beer, and how when Interbrew (no AB-InBev) bought Labatt, sales of Labatt Blue started to decline, mostly because the parent company decided to dial back on the marketing of Blue and instead spend more money marketing Stella Artrois which was a more profitable brand.