Oh hold on, yes they do, we just like to leave things unsaid, because silence means absence.

What is it the kids all say... don't hate the player, hate the game?

Ummmm... ok.

No one's going "puritanical" and proclaiming that ALL sex is bad.

Sex is a beautiful thing between 2 consenting adults (as we all know haha)

The issue here is that AM is actively PROMOTING dishonesty and selfishness... their whole shtick "Life is Short. Have an affair" is a slap in the face to common decency.

If you want to argue that decency has no place in a capitalist society that only cares about the almigty buck then by all means... go ahead.... but without ANY kind of social and societal rules in place we'd be living in "Mad Max's" world I think....

I have no problem with polyamory; I do have a problem with those who practice it in hiding, though, because they are being dishonest with the ones who care about them the most. If you want to have an open relationship, all the more power to you, you just need to be honest about it, and if your other partner doesn't consent to it, you have to choose between your partner and that lifestyle.

the heart of this issue is found in a "structure" that society has come to accept that had little to do with morality. Monogamy became the "norm" due to inheritance laws and men wanting to control their off-spring. in the very early days of the catholic church, the priests and clergy married, often more than one wife, the "heroes" of the faith, Abraham, Issac, Jacob, David, Solomon all had many wives and concubines and the god of the bible called them men of faith! wrap your head around that for a while!

as society became "civilized" men could have sex with anyone they wanted, but they decided that their women, who would bear their heirs, could not, to protect the "purity" of their own bloodline. forced monogamy had little to do with "til death to us part" and "forsaking all others" it was all about a man's status and being able to produce a true heir for his family. Monogamy's history is based in the subjugation of women and our social structure, which is based on the british model, defines marriage based on the wrong belief that the bible promotes monogamy, which it doesn't. the laws we have now are being challenged by not only the way people live, but by science itself as the belief that monogamy is not natural to mammals let alone humans.

if you really want to know why a site like AM has so many followers, you should study why we practice monogamy as a society and decide if that is really what should be the acceptable way to live.

As a society, we are beginning to see the traditional view of life fall apart as we see more than half of all marriages fall apart. Cheating is a word we use, but it is only cheating if it is not agreed upon by both parties. Will Smith and Jada Pinkett Smith have an open marriage and are both very happy, one of the truly happy couples in hollywood these days. honesty is the key to all relationships and without it, divorce is inevitable as the pressure not to be explore is very difficult to subjugate for long. being honest with your partner could open up new areas of depth and fun in a relationship. don't be so quick to judge others based on your own moratlity, we don't all share it!

Last edited by takman_777; 12-18-2009 at 12:08 PM.
Reason: more information

the heart of this issue is found in a "structure" that society has come to accept that had little to do with morality. Monogamy became the "norm" due to inheritance laws and men wanting to control their off-spring. in the very early days of the catholic church, the priests and clergy married, often more than one wife, the "heroes" of the faith, Abraham, Issac, Jacob, David, Solomon all had many wives and concubines and the god of the bible called them men of faith! wrap your head around that for a while!

as society became "civilized" men could have sex with anyone they wanted, but they decided that their women, who would bear their heirs, could not, to protect the "purity" of their own bloodline. forced monogamy had little to do with "til death to us part" and "forsaking all others" it was all about a man's status and being able to produce a true heir for his family. Monogamy's history is based in the subjugation of women and our social structure, which is based on the british model, defines marriage based on the wrong belief that the bible promotes monogamy, which it doesn't. the laws we have now are being challenged by not only the way people live, but by science itself as the belief that monogamy is not natural to mammals let alone humans.

if you really want to know why a site like AM has so many followers, you should study why we practice monogamy as a society and decide if that is really what should be the acceptable way to live.

As a society, we are beginning to see the traditional view of life fall apart as we see more than half of all marriages fall apart. Cheating is a word we use, but it is only cheating if it is not agreed upon by both parties. Will Smith and Jada Pinkett Smith have an open marriage and are both very happy, one of the truly happy couples in hollywood these days. honesty is the key to all relationships and without it, divorce is inevitable as the pressure not to be explore is very difficult to subjugate for long. being honest with your partner could open up new areas of depth and fun in a relationship. don't be so quick to judge others based on your own moratlity, we don't all share it!

I think that's all that's being discussed here - honesty and such. No one's preaching monogamy.

actually, some of the outrage directed at people who have no respect for "the marriage commitment" are supporting and promoting their belief that monogamy is the only model for marriage that is acceptable in our society. true discussion would not see name calling and some of the disrespect directed to differing opinions.

our society places such a burden on the marriage ideal that girls start dreaming about happily ever after from a very young age. most societies on the planet don't even recognize cheating <see that lust in translation article mentioned earlier> found here!

the sense i have gotten from the reactions i have read is that many are offended by the thought of men and women going to a site like AM to find someone to f((K. doesn't that happen in bars and lounges all across the globe every night? why such hatred for a guy who is looking to make a buck off people who will do what they want to do? the disdain i have read baffles me as prostitution has been around longer than marriage as we know it has, yet no one is outraged by them to this level.

life is short, we need to see all these issues for what they are, different ways to express who we are. we all don't have to do everything and some are able to make choices that give credence to the monogamy myth in human marriage. as you look around the world, most cultures see sexuality and marriage so much differently than we do. are they all wrong as well?

actually, some of the outrage directed at people who have no respect for "the marriage commitment" are supporting and promoting their belief that monogamy is the only model for marriage that is acceptable in our society. true discussion would not see name calling and some of the disrespect directed to differing opinions.
our society places such a burden on the marriage ideal that girls start dreaming about happily ever after from a very young age. most societies on the planet don't even recognize cheating <see that lust in translation article mentioned earlier> found here!

the sense i have gotten from the reactions i have read is that many are offended by the thought of men and women going to a site like AM to find someone to f((K. doesn't that happen in bars and lounges all across the globe every night? why such hatred for a guy who is looking to make a buck off people who will do what they want to do? the disdain i have read baffles me as prostitution has been around longer than marriage as we know it has, yet no one is outraged by them to this level.

life is short, we need to see all these issues for what they are, different ways to express who we are. we all don't have to do everything and some are able to make choices that give credence to the monogamy myth in human marriage. as you look around the world, most cultures see sexuality and marriage so much differently than we do. are they all wrong as well?

Who? Where? Here? It's been a long week and maybe I've missed that part of this discussion.

Alright... I get all that, really I do. I can also understand how monogamy isn't necessarily natural and humans are pretty much made to "go forth and procreate" with multiple people.

Here's why I prefer monogamy - if I had an open relationship, then my boyfriend or husband was allowed to go out and sleep with any woman he chose to. Being the way that I am, that would make ME feel like shit. The old "why did he have to go fuck her, when he has me here? Am I not good enough?".

That's just how it is. And I'm sure it'd be the same both ways. I'll bet that it would become like a competition in making each other feel like crap about themselves. I'd be spiteful and jealous and go find the best looking guy I could to make myself feel better and my partner feel worse.

Yes. I'm horrible. I admit that.

But not everyone is like that. Some couples work just fine with an open relationship. More power to em. I just know I don't have the self-esteem or trust to do that.

IMO, the site is horrible... and to think the guy who created it is a multi millionaire.
the way they advertise cheating is deplorable... they advertise it so matter-of-factly and non-chalantly as if having an afair is normal, and its like eating breakfast, its so easy and everybody does it.

i still believe cheating is human nature and a part of life, but hat being said, pushing it in people's faces and advertising it is dirt low

from fancylad

I find nothing morally wrong with a one night stand, but there's plenty wrong with encouraging infidelity.

but i am calling them out for stooping to pretty much the lowest level and making money out of it. That's what makes them so tasteless.

Ashley Madison is bad.

from superjudge

It isn't against the law. And it isn't the reason people cheat. It's a place for them to go and facilitate their need for infidelity, nothing more, nothing less.

The morality is 100% on the heads of the men and women that use the site.

from toraptor4ever

AM is selling the "dream"... of having your cake and eating it too... while saying "damn the consequences". Incredibly selfish IMO.... and incredibly unrealistic.

The issue here is that AM is actively PROMOTING dishonesty and selfishness... their whole shtick "Life is Short. Have an affair" is a slap in the face to common decency.

As i read these, i hear a lot of moralizing and judging. we really have no right to tell others what they can or can't do! even with my kids, i taught them to make choices and they do. Morality is a subject that is entirely subjective and has been the source of many deaths of innocent people who's only crime was believing something someone else didn't. sexuality is personal and for any of us to say "that is wrong" is a bit harsh.

at this point in our history, we are being told by many sources what is and isn't immoral. global warming is immoral, then it is proven to be a hoax, and now the world is being told that the chinese 1 child law is a shining model of social engineering to be revered and followed by the world. thank you copenhagen! morality as defined by external forces is subject to so many issues. to be true to oneself is a much harder way to live as we seldom have a good reference from which to move from. we have tried to teach masterbation is wrong for decades, yet we all do it and i don't think any of us have hairy palms yet! female sexuality for centuries has been subjugated by men who wrote the rules to justify their behaviour and make it "correct" in society to take mistresses or visit prostitutes or sleep with whomever they wanted. today, we base our morality on that code. what is right what is wrong... those are huge issues. Ashley Madison provides the same service as Lavalife and POF or Mate1 or facebook for that matter. people want to hook up, and they will find a way.

i think the dialogue that needs to take place is where does our moral structure come from and why is it based on an unrealistic and inaccurate religious belief system? Why do we blindly accept that the church has all the answers? why would someone go to a horny male priest to discuss how to have a successful marriage? i wonder what he is thinking about the woman to be wed! or perhaps he dreams about the man! it is such a mess...

sorry, i am ranting on a bit! but i think these topics are way more important to life than we may suspect. I do have many thoughts on these issues...

Alright... I get all that, really I do. I can also understand how monogamy isn't necessarily natural and humans are pretty much made to "go forth and procreate" with multiple people.

Here's why I prefer monogamy - if I had an open relationship, then my boyfriend or husband was allowed to go out and sleep with any woman he chose to. Being the way that I am, that would make ME feel like shit. The old "why did he have to go fuck her, when he has me here? Am I not good enough?".

That's just how it is. And I'm sure it'd be the same both ways. I'll bet that it would become like a competition in making each other feel like crap about themselves. I'd be spiteful and jealous and go find the best looking guy I could to make myself feel better and my partner feel worse.

Yes. I'm horrible. I admit that.

But not everyone is like that. Some couples work just fine with an open relationship. More power to em. I just know I don't have the self-esteem or trust to do that.

part of the problem with our society is that women particularily are trained to accept that one man will make all your dreams come true. think about the disney stories and fairy tales of your youth, the princess always gets the hottie and lives happily ever after.

Jealousy is Sparked from Insecurity
The closer you become with your partner, the more you have to lose by breaking up. If you are not aware of your own qualities or not confident in your own attractiveness as a relationship partner, insecurities can develop. If your insecurities are not addressed with your partner, they only fester and grow. It is true that there is a small percentage of jealousy that comes from a valid feeling, but, most of the time, jealousy comes from personal insecurities that have grown because of lack of communication.

I don't know you at all cuda, but i do know that being jealous is not healthy at all in a relationship, in any way. I guess it comes down to what you really believe about yourself and how secure you are in the relationships you have. for me, i don't struggle with it at all. i am in love with my partner, but i don't have any desire to control any aspect of the life she needs to experience. we talk about everything and discuss everything and that openness allows me to believe that the bond we have is very secure. so, i don't worry about what she is doing or if she has sex with someone else.

Monogamy is a choice, and one more than half of marriages can't seem to make these days, and i suspect that number is probably actually higher as not all couples break up after "an affair". in the strictest sense, monogamy means ONE PARTNER for LIFE! not the game of serial monogamy we play as we date and break up and cycle on and on calling it monogamous. it really is a myth!

Takman, i can only speak for myself and i'll just say that you misinterpreted my posts. For me this has nothing to do with couples consentually choose to be in open relationships. It's not "cheating" when your partner knows about it and is OK with it. If people choose to live that lifestyle, then fine.

My problem with the ones who have multiple partners, but do it behind their spouse's back.

part of the problem with our society is that women particularily are trained to accept that one man will make all your dreams come true. think about the disney stories and fairy tales of your youth, the princess always gets the hottie and lives happily ever after.

I don't know you at all cuda, but i do know that being jealous is not healthy at all in a relationship, in any way. I guess it comes down to what you really believe about yourself and how secure you are in the relationships you have. for me, i don't struggle with it at all. i am in love with my partner, but i don't have any desire to control any aspect of the life she needs to experience. we talk about everything and discuss everything and that openness allows me to believe that the bond we have is very secure. so, i don't worry about what she is doing or if she has sex with someone else.

Monogamy is a choice, and one more than half of marriages can't seem to make these days, and i suspect that number is probably actually higher as not all couples break up after "an affair". in the strictest sense, monogamy means ONE PARTNER for LIFE! not the game of serial monogamy we play as we date and break up and cycle on and on calling it monogamous. it really is a myth!

I know all this stuff. I'm aware that my insecurities cause the jealousy I could have, but so do partners. Guys aren't usually as aware of the things they say and do.

I'm not looking for prince charming. He does not exist. No man is going to make my life perfect and storyboo-like. I'm not a stupid woman, nor am I ignorant. I'm well aware of my own reality. So don't think that's the reason I'm looking for monogamy.

All I'm going to say (again) is, to each his own. I highly doubt I will EVER have a partner that I'll feel secure enough with to allow him to sleep with other women, or vice versa. It's a fun thought sometimes to have that kind of freedom, but it doesn't work for me.

If it works for you, I'm glad. All anyone wants is to be happy, right? We each have our own ways of acheiving that.

fair enough fancylad, thank you for clarifying your thoughts! i agree actually. if you want to play around, be honest enough with yourself to admit it to yourself and to your partner. then together you can decide whether it is something you can live with or not! being open allows all involved to make decisions. one problem we have is our culture hides sex and poopoo's any real dialogue on these topics.

I know all this stuff. I'm aware that my insecurities cause the jealousy I could have, but so do partners. Guys aren't usually as aware of the things they say and do.

I'm not looking for prince charming. He does not exist. No man is going to make my life perfect and storyboo-like. I'm not a stupid woman, nor am I ignorant. I'm well aware of my own reality. So don't think that's the reason I'm looking for monogamy.

All I'm going to say (again) is, to each his own. I highly doubt I will EVER have a partner that I'll feel secure enough with to allow him to sleep with other women, or vice versa. It's a fun thought sometimes to have that kind of freedom, but it doesn't work for me.

If it works for you, I'm glad. All anyone wants is to be happy, right? We each have our own ways of acheiving that.

cuda, you are a smart woman who has a real style with words <i have visited your blog> and i don't pretend to have answers, but i have lots of questions as well. i don't pretend, either, to know why you make the choices you do though i do suspect that as you get closer to my age, you may see things a bit differently. maybe i have become cynical in my old age, but i am finding that i have had to ask myself some serious questions about what i believe and who i am. I am not sure everyone does, but for me, i have had to rethink all i thought was real and true. i am finding some shocking answers to my questions.

i used to think happiness was the goal, but that is fickle at best. learning to be content where you are is the goal i seek. i am closer now than i ever have been. challenge everything you think, feel and believe, you will find huge rewards at the other side!

Sex is a beautiful thing between 2 consenting adults (as we all know haha)

The issue here is that AM is actively PROMOTING dishonesty and selfishness... their whole shtick "Life is Short. Have an affair" is a slap in the face to common decency.

If you want to argue that decency has no place in a capitalist society that only cares about the almigty buck then by all means... go ahead.... but without ANY kind of social and societal rules in place we'd be living in "Mad Max's" world I think....

tak... when you cut & paste from people's posts you often miss the whole story.

I've already said that I have absolutely no problem with 2 people "hooking up" and enjoying each other.

The difference between sites like POF & LL when compared to AM is simple... AM is the only one that's actively advertising affairs. The whole site CATERS to married folk who want to "cheat on their spouses".

I suspect if AM were simply an online "swingers club" people wouldn't be saying half as much about it as they are now (I know that I wouldn't).

i think all online sites promote the same thing.. hooking up! facebook, pof, mate1, lavalife, to me, are all the same as AM. anonymity promotes deception at every level. one is no better than the rest. i spent time after my divorce on one site and found all the women lying to me to get laid. one posted pictures of her 20something daughter on her profile to "get attention". to say AM is "worse" than the rest is naive! they all offer sex.

i think all online sites promote the same thing.. hooking up! facebook, pof, mate1, lavalife, to me, are all the same as AM. anonymity promotes deception at every level. one is no better than the rest. i spent time after my divorce on one site and found all the women lying to me to get laid. one posted pictures of her 20something daughter on her profile to "get attention". to say AM is "worse" than the rest is naive! they all offer sex.

Not the same thing tak... not at all.

I've used POF, LL, and FB before.... and I can tell you right now that I wasn't looking for MARRIED women (or even girls with b/fs) at all. I actually met my last g/f through one of those sites, who I was with for 2 years.

Do people lie on those sites? Of course! But saying that they're all the same is like saying that nuclear energy is inherently evil because it inevitably leads to A-bombs.

People don't even NEED a website to be deceptive.... you're just that type of person... or you aren't.

I've used POF, LL, and FB before.... and I can tell you right now that I wasn't looking for MARRIED women (or even girls with b/fs) at all. I actually met my last g/f through one of those sites, who I was with for 2 years.

Do people lie on those sites? Of course! But saying that they're all the same is like saying that nuclear energy is inherently evil because it inevitably leads to A-bombs.

People don't even NEED a website to be deceptive.... you're just that type of person... or you aren't.

how you use them is dependant upon you! how others use them is entirely a different story. you have no way of verifying anything before you actually meet someone. and even then, deception is to be expected. people want what they want, they find married men/women on all of these sites looking for more of the same to hookup with. it isn't really any more complex than that.. msn has the same service as does yahoo and most of the other chat programs you can think about. this is what people want, to hook up and they don't really care about married or not married, they just want sex.

my partner and i met on one of these sites, so i am aware of the range of what is available. would i do it again? probably, but to say that AM is promoting something the others aren't is not accurate. If you really think about it, pretty much all of the media generally promotes idealogies that go against society in general. look at shows like all the housewives shows, swingtown, going back to the 70's we had shows that promoted homosexuality raising the ire of "decent" folk everywhere! we have not grown much as a culture yet... sigh...

how you use them is dependant upon you! how others use them is entirely a different story. you have no way of verifying anything before you actually meet someone. and even then, deception is to be expected. people want what they want, they find married men/women on all of these sites looking for more of the same to hookup with. it isn't really any more complex than that.. msn has the same service as does yahoo and most of the other chat programs you can think about. this is what people want, to hook up and they don't really care about married or not married, they just want sex.

my partner and i met on one of these sites, so i am aware of the range of what is available. would i do it again? probably, but to say that AM is promoting something the others aren't is not accurate. If you really think about it, pretty much all of the media generally promotes idealogies that go against society in general. look at shows like all the housewives shows, swingtown, going back to the 70's we had shows that promoted homosexuality raising the ire of "decent" folk everywhere! we have not grown much as a culture yet... sigh...

So what you're telling me is that if you were single and looking to dabble with online dating site you'd be just as likely to use AM as you would LL or POF??

I don't believe that for a second.

People continually try to assert that we're nothing but "animals" as some sort of justification for deplorable behaviour.... when the truth is that we're NOT.

We DON'T operate solely on instinct.

We HAVE the ability to reason and resist urges.

If that weren't the case you'd be taking a dump at your desk every day rather than going to the bathroom.