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Yeah, but he has posted such a stunning array of utter bollocks in the mean time, that he has probably forgotten, or hopes that we have!

__________________As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.- Henry Louis Mencken - Baltimore Evening Sun, July 26, 1920

Recall that we have a standing challenge for the hoaxers - to post any example, a photo would be nice, of physical evidence of the holohoax.

Thus far, nada. Don't they teach you anything in hasbara school but insults and idiocy?

I'll even try to help you out, I think I can find a photo of some very incriminating shoes.

__________________"The more I argued with them, the better I came to know their dialectic. First they counted on the stupidity of their adversary, and then, when there was no other way out, they themselves simply played stupid."

Recall that we have a standing challenge for the hoaxers - to post any example, a photo would be nice, of physical evidence of the holohoax.

There is only one 'hoax', which is the big lie you're attempting to promulgate. The burden of proof is on you. You're probably too young and remote, but there are people on this forum whose relatives lived through the war and post-war clean-up; possibly even one or two who did themselves.

__________________The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell
Zooterkin is correct Darat
Nerd! Hokulele
Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232Ezekiel 23:20

There is only one 'hoax', which is the big lie you're attempting to promulgate. The burden of proof is on you. You're probably too young and remote, but there are people on this forum whose relatives lived through the war and post-war clean-up; possibly even one or two who did themselves.

I can give you an example of physical proof of the the hoax, no problem, here it is ...

Now, let's see you give one instance of physical proof of the 'holocaust'. It cannot be done, because there is no physical evidence of an event that never happened. Just Jewish lies.

Edited by Loss Leader:

Edited to change image to URL. Do not repost the same images multiple times. Use the [imgw=x] tag for large images, where x equals the size of the picture (400 works well).

__________________"The more I argued with them, the better I came to know their dialectic. First they counted on the stupidity of their adversary, and then, when there was no other way out, they themselves simply played stupid."

He seems to be trying, by endlessly repeating himself, to get us to throw up our hands and stop talking to him - therefore scoring some sort of victory in the 'Hitler was a good guy world', is that going to happen? No Saggy it isn't.

Of course, you drop the peek-a-boo defense and try to actually present some physical evidence. That would be entertaining.

__________________"The more I argued with them, the better I came to know their dialectic. First they counted on the stupidity of their adversary, and then, when there was no other way out, they themselves simply played stupid."

Now, let's see you give one instance of physical proof of the 'holocaust'. It cannot be done, because there is no physical evidence of an event that never happened. Just Jewish lies.

That door is not original, I doubt even the DOORWAY is either.

Also, the Krema 1 morgue was adapted as a gas chamber during the period where very few Jews were present in the camp. The victims of early gassings were sick Poles and Soviet POWS. Testimony for those gassings comes from primarily Polish/German inmates and German guards.

So, how is that a Jewish lie?

Not to mention that the Nazis had been gassing people (sick and disabled) for almost two years before that, mostly in the Euthanasia centres.

Edited by Loss Leader:

Edited quote to conform.

__________________I see that the No-Planers still travel Air Elastic-Band with their fleet of innovative rubber Boeings.

Of course, you drop the peek-a-boo defense and try to actually present some physical evidence. That would be entertaining.

Did you just knock yourself out? Is that why you haven't posted in a while?

Saggy, why don't you present evidence of a "hoax?" We can fool around all day with you mocking witness testimonies and posting cute pictures. You basically just ignore anything we post that contradicts you. That is getting old.

I posted this thread at Skeptics back when we actually had deniers. They scuttled off in the meantime so I'll post it for you.

Did you just knock yourself out? Is that why you haven't posted in a while?

Saggy, why don't you present evidence of a "hoax?" We can fool around all day with you mocking witness testimonies and posting cute pictures. You basically just ignore anything we post that contradicts you. That is getting old.

I posted this thread at Skeptics back when we actually had deniers. They scuttled off in the meantime so I'll post it for you.

Pelt's book, The Case for Auschwitz, supported by Dwork & Pelt's book Auschwitz: 1270 to the Present, details the evidence which Pelt uses to prove mass murder of Jews in Auschwitz and will make clear how dishonest are deniers when they cherrypick this quotation out of the newspaper article. See also The Pelt Report here.

Anyone who can read Pelt's Irving trial report or his books and still think that Pelt's a good person to cite to claim lack of evidence for Auschwitz has powers of imagination I cannot personally fathom.

The power of Tinfoil is mysterious and deep.

__________________"Bravery Is Not A Function Of Firepower." - JC Denton

"And belief in conspiracy theories is not the function of a higher intellect." - BStrong

Now, let's see you give one instance of physical proof of the 'holocaust'. It cannot be done, because there is no physical evidence of an event that never happened. Just Jewish lies.

Do you think you could just stop with that load of bollocks? How many times are you going to present that straw man?

You're alleging a hoax. Who did it, and when did they start? How did they persuade various Nazis to admit to it and, as a consequence, die?

Edited by Loss Leader:

Edited to change image to URL.

__________________The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell
Zooterkin is correct Darat
Nerd! Hokulele
Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232Ezekiel 23:20

Do you think you could just stop with that load of bollocks? How many times are you going to present that straw man?

As many as it takes. That is stone cold irrefutable evidence of a hoax. Any fool can see that that door is not the door to a gas chamber. Yet, it was presented as the door to the gas chamber in krema 1 at Auschwitz for 50 years until the hoax was revealed by David Cole in this vid ... it was still being presented that way 10 years after the hoax was revealed as confirmed by Van Pelt (see below) ...

On page 363 of their book "Auschwitz 1270 to the Present," Van Pelt and Dwork state the following, regarding the gas chamber reconstruction:

"When Auschwitz was transformed into a museum after the war, the decision was taken to concentrate the history of the whole complex into one of its component parts. The infamous crematoria where the mass murders had taken place lay in ruins in Birkenau, two miles away. The committee felt that a crematorium was required at the end of the memorial journey, and crematorium I was reconstructed to speak for the history of the incinerators at Birkenau. This program of usurpation was rather detailed. A chimney, the ultimate symbol of Birkenau, was re-created; four hatched openings in the roof, as if for pouring Zyklon B into the gas chamber below, were installed, and two of the three furnaces were rebuilt using original parts. There are no signs to explain these restitutions, they were not marked at the time, and the guides remain silent about it when they take visitors through this building that is presumed by the tourist to be the place where it happened."

__________________"The more I argued with them, the better I came to know their dialectic. First they counted on the stupidity of their adversary, and then, when there was no other way out, they themselves simply played stupid."

A point of clarification for the non-hasbara readers - to prove that the holocaust is a hoax I don't have to prove that it never happened, all I have to do is prove that the 'evidence' presented for the hoax is false, and as is always the case, a deliberate lie.

That is why every lying eyewitness, each one of them supported by Yad Vashem, the USHMM, Hillel, etc, all prove that there is an ongoing hoax. Irene Zisblatt lecturing at a university is proof of the hoax.

The phony gas chamber at krema1 is proof of a hoax.

The tortured confessions of Germans (the prime example is that of Hoess) prove a hoax.

The existence of the hasbara is part of the hoax, it proves a hoax. The endless idiotic comments on the forum are all part of the hoax and demonstrate the hoax.

__________________"The more I argued with them, the better I came to know their dialectic. First they counted on the stupidity of their adversary, and then, when there was no other way out, they themselves simply played stupid."

As many as it takes. That is stone cold irrefutable evidence of a hoax. Any fool can see that that door is not the door to a gas chamber. Yet, it was presented as the door to the gas chamber in krema 1 at Auschwitz for 50 years until the hoax was revealed by David Cole in this vid ... it was still being presented that way 10 years after the hoax was revealed as confirmed by Van Pelt (see below) ...

On page 363 of their book "Auschwitz 1270 to the Present," Van Pelt and Dwork state the following, regarding the gas chamber reconstruction:

"When Auschwitz was transformed into a museum after the war, the decision was taken to concentrate the history of the whole complex into one of its component parts. The infamous crematoria where the mass murders had taken place lay in ruins in Birkenau, two miles away. The committee felt that a crematorium was required at the end of the memorial journey, and crematorium I was reconstructed to speak for the history of the incinerators at Birkenau. This program of usurpation was rather detailed. A chimney, the ultimate symbol of Birkenau, was re-created; four hatched openings in the roof, as if for pouring Zyklon B into the gas chamber below, were installed, and two of the three furnaces were rebuilt using original parts. There are no signs to explain these restitutions, they were not marked at the time, and the guides remain silent about it when they take visitors through this building that is presumed by the tourist to be the place where it happened."

So the hoax consists of a reconstructed tourist installation with insufficient detail on its reconstruction - and the Holocaust scholars Dworkin and Pelt, guardians of hoaxing, blew the cover off the hoax? Not much a hoax, Saggy, more like a not terribly well thought out exhibit at the camp . . .

Yes, Dworkin and Pelt are critical of some of the decisions made by the museum management. They also describe some other less than ideal choices made by those in charge of the Auschwitz museum, for example, how there's no inscription or plaque on the main reception center for incoming prisoners, destruction of the original arrangement in that center, the lack of a visit on a standard guided tour to "the principal site of the Judeocide" at Birkenau, the choice to prioritize Polish over Jewish history in how camp I is featured and displayed, and so on. You see, it's a museum now, and the museum authorities - not some official Holocaust committee of rabbis and Jewish liars - made choices and compromises about what to present and how - choices and compromises which we are free to debate and contest, but choices and compromises nonetheless, to represent aspects of what went on at Auschwitz.

A museum is not the history itself - but a representation whose features are chosen by specific people who manage the museum. They could have taken down Krema I and replaced it with a display of eyeglasses or clothes, but that wouldn't change what was present during the war there, or that clothes and belongings taken from victims were sorted mostly at the various Kanada sites.

I am guessing that you haven't visited many historical museums or sites.

__________________. . . all this would be absurd if it weren't happening, now let's go and eat.
- Jose Saramago, The Stone Raft

A point of clarification for the non-hasbara readers - to prove that the holocaust is a hoax I don't have to prove that it never happened, all I have to do is prove that the 'evidence' presented for the hoax is false, and as is always the case, a deliberate lie.

That's not true. You have claimed that a hoax is behind the reports, studies, and other information about the Holocaust: you have to prove what you claim.

Also, you continue to refuse even to comment on the evidence presented for the Holocaust by members of this forum. You don't speak for us - and you don't get to choose the evidence we find most salient.

Last, stop calling members of the forum hasbaras, you have admitted that this is unfounded. It is an ad hominem and detracts from the content of posts.

Originally Posted by Saggy

That is why every lying eyewitness

What did Krzepicki and Rabinowicz lie about concerning Treblinka?

Originally Posted by Saggy

Irene Zisblatt lecturing at a university is proof of the hoax.

A lack of competence on the part of some people is evidence of a lack of competence on the part of some people: that uninformed groups and individuals promote Zisblatt is utterly irrelevant to all the scholars and researchers who do not - as well as to members of this forum, none of whom has cited her testimony even once - and many of whom say it is false.

Originally Posted by Saggy

The tortured confessions of Germans (the prime example is that of Hoess) prove a hoax.

Tell us all about the torture of the defendants in the Einsatzgruppen trial (NMT, trial IX). Tell us who was tortured, who tortured these men and when, what the torture consisted of, what the aim was of the torture, how you know about the torture, and how the alleged torture figured in the witness' testimony and in the convictions.

Originally Posted by Saggy

The endless idiotic comments on the forum are all part of the hoax and demonstrate the hoax.

Yes, your comments betray a hoaxing nature and hoaxing strategy on your part, but you needn't insult yourself and call yourself idiotic - you're probably just out of your depth.

__________________. . . all this would be absurd if it weren't happening, now let's go and eat.
- Jose Saramago, The Stone Raft

So the hoax consists of a reconstructed tourist installation with insufficient detail on its reconstruction - and the Holocaust scholars Dworkin and Pelt, guardians of hoaxing, blew the cover off the hoax? Not much a hoax, Saggy, more like a not terribly well thought out exhibit at the camp . . .

Yes, Dworkin and Pelt are critical of some of the decisions made by the museum management. They also describe some other less than ideal choices made by those in charge of the Auschwitz museum, for example, how there's no inscription or plaque on the main reception center for incoming prisoners, destruction of the original arrangement in that center, the lack of a visit on a standard guided tour to "the principal site of the Judeocide" at Birkenau, the choice to prioritize Polish over Jewish history in how camp I is featured and displayed, and so on. You see, it's a museum now, and the museum authorities - not some official Holocaust committee of rabbis and Jewish liars - made choices and compromises about what to present and how - choices and compromises which we are free to debate and contest, but choices and compromises nonetheless, to represent aspects of what went on at Auschwitz.

A museum is not the history itself - but a representation whose features are chosen by specific people who manage the museum. They could have taken down Krema I and replaced it with a display of eyeglasses or clothes, but that wouldn't change what was present during the war there, or that clothes and belongings taken from victims were sorted mostly at the various Kanada sites.

I am guessing that you haven't visited many historical museums or sites.

You've outdone yourself with that one !

__________________"The more I argued with them, the better I came to know their dialectic. First they counted on the stupidity of their adversary, and then, when there was no other way out, they themselves simply played stupid."

As many as it takes. That is stone cold irrefutable evidence of a hoax. Any fool can see that that door is not the door to a gas chamber. Yet, it was presented as the door to the gas chamber in krema 1 at Auschwitz for 50 years until the hoax was revealed by David Cole in this vid ... it was still being presented that way 10 years after the hoax was revealed as confirmed by Van Pelt (see below) ...

On page 363 of their book "Auschwitz 1270 to the Present," Van Pelt and Dwork state the following, regarding the gas chamber reconstruction:

"When Auschwitz was transformed into a museum after the war, the decision was taken to concentrate the history of the whole complex into one of its component parts. The infamous crematoria where the mass murders had taken place lay in ruins in Birkenau, two miles away. The committee felt that a crematorium was required at the end of the memorial journey, and crematorium I was reconstructed to speak for the history of the incinerators at Birkenau. This program of usurpation was rather detailed. A chimney, the ultimate symbol of Birkenau, was re-created; four hatched openings in the roof, as if for pouring Zyklon B into the gas chamber below, were installed, and two of the three furnaces were rebuilt using original parts. There are no signs to explain these restitutions, they were not marked at the time, and the guides remain silent about it when they take visitors through this building that is presumed by the tourist to be the place where it happened."

Sorry, but the door you keep spamming all over the thread belonged to the washroom of the converted air raid shelter. The interior of the former crematorium was altered, walls and doorways added and removed.

By the way, criticism of the way the museum presents certain things doesn't support your hoax bollocks.

The building itself IS where those gassings took place even if its reconfiguration can never match it's 1941-2 state.

Have you ever visited Auschwitz, Saggy? It's actually a pretty quiet and reflective atmosphere in many places, one thing I appreciated was not having guides who never shut up.

__________________I see that the No-Planers still travel Air Elastic-Band with their fleet of innovative rubber Boeings.

Yes, Saggy you outdid yourself with that one. I guess you have conceded the points made because you cannot refute them? Right, so again you fail because when faced with evidence you flounce off hoping a refuseal to address the evidence will suffice.

Nah it never does....it just triggers in us a fit of laughing over your continually inept public displays.

Yes, Saggy you outdid yourself with that one. I guess you have conceded the points made because you cannot refute them? Right, so again you fail because when faced with evidence you flounce off hoping a refuseal to address the evidence will suffice.

Nah it never does....it just triggers in us a fit of laughing over your continually inept public displays.

Keep up the 'good' work.

Saggy's Guide to Debating

Step 1: Throw **** at the walls.

Step 2: Throw a tantrum when it doesn't stick.

Step 3: Repeat steps one and two, over and over again.

__________________I see that the No-Planers still travel Air Elastic-Band with their fleet of innovative rubber Boeings.

It by now should be apparent that Saggy is incapable of replying to our requests about:

1. the fate of Dutch Jews
2. what happened to Warsaw Jews during 1942
3. evidence for a so-called Hoax
4. how corpses can be burned
5. evidence for the transport of 100s of 1000s of Jew from Treblinka and other AR camps to resettlement areas - and where these areas supposedly were
6. questions about the Jäger report
7. evidence for Jewish witnesses describing themselves as degenerate
8. physical evidence for the murder of Jews at Chełmno
9. proof for forgery of key Holocaust documents
10. credible witnesses we've named (Abraham Krzepicki/Jacob Rabinowitz, Kazimierz Sakowicz, Wilhelm Pfannenstiel, David Oleré, Anton Schmid, Stanislaw Szmajzner)
11. what evidence would Saggy accept - that is, his standard of proof
12. mass graves at Žagare and "Ilokiai" in Lithuania
13. whether he himself would "push the button"
14. what had happened to the Lithuania Jewish population by war's end and where most of the Jews of Lithuania wound
15. follow-up questions about Babi Yar

Ok, this post lists just 15 issues Saggy has been assiduously dodging and which I could remember/find easily . . .

__________________. . . all this would be absurd if it weren't happening, now let's go and eat.
- Jose Saramago, The Stone Raft

It by now should be apparent that Saggy is incapable of replying to our requests about:

1. the fate of Dutch Jews
2. what happened to Warsaw Jews during 1942
3. evidence for a so-called Hoax
4. how corpses can be burned
5. evidence for the transport of 100s of 1000s of Jew from Treblinka and other AR camps to resettlement areas - and where these areas supposedly were
6. questions about the Jäger report
7. evidence for Jewish witnesses describing themselves as degenerate
8. physical evidence for the murder of Jews at Chełmno
9. proof for forgery of key Holocaust documents
10. credible witnesses we've named (Abraham Krzepicki/Jacob Rabinowitz, Kazimierz Sakowicz, Wilhelm Pfannenstiel, David Oleré, Anton Schmid, Stanislaw Szmajzner)
11. what evidence would Saggy accept - that is, his standard of proof
12. mass graves at agare and "Ilokiai" in Lithuania
13. whether he himself would "push the button"
14. what had happened to the Lithuania Jewish population by war's end and where most of the Jews of Lithuania wound
15. follow-up questions about Babi Yar

Ok, this is just 15 issues Saggy is dodging that I could remember/find easily . . .

16. Gassing of Poles and Soviet POWS in Auschwitz main camp in late 1941 - Polish and German testimony.
17. The entire "Euthanasia" program.

__________________I see that the No-Planers still travel Air Elastic-Band with their fleet of innovative rubber Boeings.

I assume you don't include me in that group. I've been called a hasbara many times.

So, is the definition of a "hasbara" someone not dumb enough to fall for silly denier memes?
Someone who actually possesses a brain and understands the history involved?

Guilty as charged.

Quote:

to prove that the holocaust is a hoax I don't have to prove that it never happened, all I have to do is prove that the 'evidence' presented for the hoax is false, and as is always the case, a deliberate lie.

Lies are in the eye of the beholder. In your case it combines vomit-inducing antisemitism, a pathetic Hitler-hero complex and an absolute inability to understand the history. You are blinded by denier lies and a rather sad nostalgia for a time you know nothing about.

Quote:

That is why every lying eyewitness, each one of them supported by Yad Vashem, the USHMM, Hillel, etc, all prove that there is an ongoing hoax. Irene Zisblatt lecturing at a university is proof of the hoax.

The phony gas chamber at krema1 is proof of a hoax.

The tortured confessions of Germans (the prime example is that of Hoess) prove a hoax.

The existence of the hasbara is part of the hoax, it proves a hoax. The endless idiotic comments on the forum are all part of the hoax and demonstrate the hoax.

You wrote something but all I see is blah-blah, blah, blah-blah, dodge.

Here's the thing I tell deniers when I meet them, Saggy. It is you who is proposing an alternate history, it is incumbent upon you to prove it. If you claim that the Holocaust is a "hoax" then you better have proof, much better than whining about lying witnesses and posting pictures of Zyclon B. That's all very amusing but doesn't constitute proof. Some 5.5 million European Jews vanished from the earth during the war. If you want to convince me of something then you better have hard answers (read: proof) on what happened to them. If you tell me the Holocaust is a "hoax" then I want witness statements, documents detailing how this was pulled off, when and where the Allies agreed to this "hoax," etc.

Do ya got it, Saggy? Hopefully you and I have an understanding. I'll keep referring you back to this post in case you forget or, sorry, can't help it, dodge it.

I assume you don't include me in that group. I've been called a hasbara many times.

So, is the definition of a "hasbara" someone not dumb enough to fall for silly denier memes?
Someone who actually possesses a brain and understands the history involved?

Guilty as charged.

Lies are in the eye of the beholder. In your case it combines vomit-inducing antisemitism, a pathetic Hitler-hero complex and an absolute inability to understand the history. You are blinded by denier lies and a rather sad nostalgia for a time you know nothing about.

You wrote something but all I see is blah-blah, blah, blah-blah, dodge.

Here's the thing I tell deniers when I meet them, Saggy. It is you who is proposing an alternate history, it is incumbent upon you to prove it. If you claim that the Holocaust is a "hoax" then you better have proof, much better than whining about lying witnesses and posting pictures of Zyclon B. That's all very amusing but doesn't constitute proof. Some 5.5 million European Jews vanished from the earth during the war. If you want to convince me of something then you better have hard answers (read: proof) on what happened to them. If you tell me the Holocaust is a "hoax" then I want witness statements, documents detailing how this was pulled off, when and where the Allies agreed to this "hoax," etc.

Do ya got it, Saggy? Hopefully you and I have an understanding. I'll keep referring you back to this post in case you forget or, sorry, can't help it, dodge it.

Because Saggy paints by numbers, we can more or less at this point answer by numbers. In this case: #3.

__________________. . . all this would be absurd if it weren't happening, now let's go and eat.
- Jose Saramago, The Stone Raft

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