Browser Wont Reload or Refresh Page.

There are 20800 threads with "Refresh" and
"Reload" in Google's archives for groups with
"html" in their title. I'm sorry if this has
been done to death, but I didn't see it.

It's been a few years since I wrote Javascript
and I want to refresh my HTML skills. So I build
the current Apache on my Solaris PC. Then, from a
Win2K PC, telnet into the Solaris system for a vi
session to edit some HTML on the website, fire up
Firefox 1.0.6 and work my way through W3Schools'
HTML tutorial.

The lessons run smoothly, I add examples from
each tutorial to my home page, hit Firefox's
"Reload current page" icon, and see the results
of my changes.

When I get to the tutorial on frames I mis-
spell the name of one of the files in the
<frame src="second frame.html">, I put a blank
instead of an underscore in the file name for
the middle of 3 columns.

Firefox complains, as I would expect, with
an error message in the center column. "The
requested URL /second frame.html was not found
on this server." I correct the problem, but I
get the same error message. Reload, refresh,
same error.

I try a bunch of different things, but I'm
getting the same error, over a filename that
no longer exists in the HTML.

The text in the "View-source" window shows
the corrected source.

I fire up a second Firefox browser window,
aim it at my Solaris PC, and the columns
display properly.

I've seen many posts in the Google archives
asking how a web page author can force a page
to be refreshed, but this is a question of
how a person browsing the site can force a
page to be refreshed.

I'm using the tools a non-technical user
will have to browse my page. Why can't I
force a refresh to see the current HTML?

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<snip>
> I've seen many posts in the Google archives
> asking how a web page author can force a page
> to be refreshed, but this is a question of
> how a person browsing the site can force a
> page to be refreshed.
>
> I'm using the tools a non-technical user
> will have to browse my page. Why can't I
> force a refresh to see the current HTML?
>
> Thanks
> Larry

WD10 wrote:
> On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 04:24:06 -0700, Neredbojias wrote:
>
>
>>With neither quill nor qualm, Larry Lindstrom quothed:
>>
>>
>>> I'm using the tools a non-technical user
>>>will have to browse my page. Why can't I
>>>force a refresh to see the current HTML?
>>
>>Apparently it's refreshing the page from the cache, so clear the cache
>>then change your page-cache settings.
>
>
> Easiest way to prevent page caching: Firefox Web Developer Toolbar. I
> listed some of the features here:
> http://tips.webdesign10.com/web-developer-toolbar.htm
>
> You just click on "Disable" and then on "Disable Cache", and the browser
> will stop caching pages.

Thanks Neredbojias, Jonathan and WD10:

I've bookmarked your page WD10, and I'll look at
it after I've finished some of the tutorials. What
do people think of the W3Schools tutorials? I've
used them before and they seem pretty good. Any
others I should be looking at for getting back up
to speed with Web development?

I don't mind caches. But I'm wondering if it
seems like a flaw in the browser that a non technical
user, with no knowledge of caches, can't hit the
"Reload current page" icon and get the current page
from the server. Is this something that should be
fixed in Firefox, or is this working just like it
should?

On Mon, 5 Sep 2005, Larry Lindstrom wrote:
> What do people think of the W3Schools tutorials?

Mixed. Some is fine, some is dubious. I don't know how a would-be
learner could tell the difference.

Usenet is the same, but at least some of the contributors will point
you at authoritiative sources where you can verify the truth for yourself.
> I don't mind caches. But I'm wondering if it
> seems like a flaw in the browser that a non technical
> user, with no knowledge of caches, can't hit the
> "Reload current page" icon and get the current page
> from the server.

It's a fact of the HTTP architecture that if a server says a document
is good for 30 days, it's good for 30 days, even if, after 7 days,
something comes up that means it has to be updated.

Authors need to learn that once that's happened, there isn't a damned
thing they can do from the server side to negate it. Typically, they
react by stubbornly introducing a whole menagerie of immediate-expiry and
no-cache headers that don't solve the actual problem at all, but store up
any amount of trouble for the future.

Users need to learn that, if in doubt, their browser has a gesture (could
be shift/reload or ctrl/reload or whatever) that will break-through any
specification-conforming cache, and get the server's current offering,
even if its previous offering hasn't yet expired.

Nobbling the browser to always do that without the user specifically
requesting it could result in an unnecessarily lethargic response from
servers in general. It's a difficult compromise.

I don't mind caches. But I'm wondering if it
> seems like a flaw in the browser that a non technical
> user, with no knowledge of caches, can't hit the
> "Reload current page" icon and get the current page
> from the server. Is this something that should be
> fixed in Firefox, or is this working just like it
> should?

On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 12:36:09 -0700, Larry Lindstrom wrote:
> WD10 wrote:
>
>> Easiest way to prevent page caching: Firefox Web Developer Toolbar. I
>> listed some of the features here:http://tips.webdesign10.com/web-developer-toolbar.htm
>>
>> You just click on "Disable" and then on "Disable Cache", and the browser
>> will stop caching pages.
>
> Thanks Neredbojias, Jonathan and WD10:
>
> I've bookmarked your page WD10, and I'll look at
> it after I've finished some of the tutorials. What
> do people think of the W3Schools tutorials? I've
> used them before and they seem pretty good. Any
> others I should be looking at for getting back up
> to speed with Web development?

W3schools tutorials are good because everything there is very organized
by category. That is how I learned in the beginning. Some people complain
that W3schools is a bad site because they teach you things like <body
bgcolor=""> and <font face="">. But on the other hand if I hadn't learned
how to use those things I wouldn't be
able to understand half the sites out there when I am trying to fix
someone else's web site. Sometimes you are fixing someone else's web page
and your job is not to convert it to valid HTML/CSS, but just to make it
work again as fast as possible. HTML Dog is recommended by a lot of people -- maybe it is
better. Generally, if I have a question about HTML or CSS, the first
place I go is to Google and I type my question followed by "site:w3.org"
(no quotes).

The Web Developer Toolbar extension has a "validate HTML" button and a
"validate CSS" button which are useful to check your site.

There is also an HTML Tidy Firefox extension that checks your page for
errors, so every time you view a page in your browser, all warnings and
errors will show on the status bar. It also gives you information when
you view the source (CTRL-U). I have a page with information
on it here:http://tips.webdesign10.com/web-design-extensions.htm

Larry Lindstrom wrote:
> What do people think of the W3Schools tutorials?

I think they're pretty good as a reference for people who already know
what they're doing. For example, if you need to check whether the CSS to
capitalise stuff is "text-transform:capitals" or "text-transform:uppercase",
they'll set you straight very quickly (it's the latter IIRC).

As tutorials go though, they're not great. They spend plenty of time
teaching you how you *can* do things, but not how you *should* do things.
Some tutorials are a lot worse than W3schools, but some are better too.

"Toby Inkster" <> wrote in message
news:5n.co.uk...
> Larry Lindstrom wrote:
>
>> What do people think of the W3Schools tutorials?

Thats what I am using, finding it great for a newbie, nice and simple plus
the examples are really good to learn from.
I just have to remember to check what goes with css and what doesn't.
>
> I think they're pretty good as a reference for people who already know
> what they're doing. For example, if you need to check whether the CSS to
> capitalise stuff is "text-transform:capitals" or
> "text-transform:uppercase",
> they'll set you straight very quickly (it's the latter IIRC).
>
> As tutorials go though, they're not great. They spend plenty of time
> teaching you how you *can* do things, but not how you *should* do things.
> Some tutorials are a lot worse than W3schools, but some are better too.
>
> As tutorials I would recommend:
>
> http://htmldog.com/
> http://tranchant.plus.com/web/html-tutorial/

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