I am trying to find out the ancestry of Sir Thomas Payne and his wifeMargaret Pulteney of Market Bosworth, Leicestershire, late 15th-early16th century. According to secondary sources, Margaret's father was aSir Thomas Pulteney who may have been from Misterton, Leicestershire.One Sir Thomas who was married to Ann Shirley is usually listed asMargaret's father but Margaret may have actually been the daughter of aSir Thomas Pulteney who was married to a Rose (Lucy or ?), and who mayhave been the other Thomas' father or uncle. I have examined threedifferent Pulteney wills, a Thomas from 1507, a Thomas from 1540, and aJohn from the late 1400s, and I cannot seem to find any mention of adaughter Margaret who was married to a Thomas Payne. Granted myability to read the handwriting of that time period is rather limited.Any help, especially, if it is based on primary sources, would begreatly appreciated.

I have a great deal on the Pulteney family and this may be of help to you. The will of Thomas Poultney who died on August 3, 1540, does not mention all his children. He was married to Anne Shirley. This is the documentation I have on Thomas Poultney:

Thomas de Pulteney married Anne daughter of Sir Ralph Shirley; by whom he had two sons Francis, his successor and Thomas, from whom the later Earls of Bath descended. He had five daughters; Elizabeth, Agnes, Roesia, Margaret and Dorothy.

Sir Thomas Pulteney died in 1540.

He left a PCC will - PCC 10 Alenger. In the will he names his son[in-law] George Sherard [husband of his daughter Rose Poultney] his sister Margaret and his brother William Poultney. He also names his eldest son Francis Poultney and his daughter Elizabeth Poultney.

Cal. Patent rolls 1494-1509, p. 559, 29 May, 1508. Licence of entry without proof of age for Thomas Pulteney, kinsman and heir of Thomas Pulteney, knight, who held of the king in chief, on all the lands of the said Thomas.

De Banco roll 984, Easter, 23 Henry VII, 1508, membrane 24, London: Henry Stafford, knight, and the marchioness of Dorset v. Thomas Pulteney, of Misterton, co. Leicester, esquire, William Assheby, of Lowesby, esq., William Burton, of Misterton, clerk, Adam Oates and Robert Holcote, both of Misterton, gentlemen, executors of the will of Thomas Pulteney, of Misterton, knight, in a plea of £17.

Ibid. membrane 425, Leycester: William Skevyngton, esq., and Richard Aldy, of Groby, clerk, executors of the will of Thomas, marquis of Dorset, and Cecily, marchioness of Dorset, executrix of the same will, were summoned to answer Thomas Pulteney, esq., William Assheby, esq., William Burton, clerk, Adam Cotes and Robert Holcote, executors of the will of Thomas Pulteney, kt., in a plea of £34 13s. 0d. which they say the marquis on 6 February, 13 Henry VII, 1498, granted to Thomas Pulteney, the testator, for his good service and advice, with the office of Steward of his lordship of Lutterworth for term of his life. They ask leave to imparl.

Common pleas roll 1025, 11 Henry VIII, Trinity, 1519, membrane 463. Thomas Pulteney, esq., v. many persons (named) in a plea that they permit him to present a suitable parson to the church of Shawell, which is void, and the presentation belongs to him.

Fine, Easter, 17 Henry VIII, 1525. Between Thomas Pulteney, knight, and Anne, his wife, one of the kinswomen and heirs of Thomas Walsshe, plaintiffs, and Joan Aston, widow, another kinswoman and heir of the said Thomas Walsshe, defendant of the manors of Nether Whitacre and Holte Hall and 34 messuages, 10 tofts, 500 acres of land, 110 of meadow, 306 of wood, 400 of furze and heath and 50s. 8d. rent in Whitacre, Fresley, Holte Hall and Walton by street, co. Warwick, and the manors of Welshall and Burton Overy and 38 messuages, 6 tofts, a watermill, 900 acres of land, 160 of meadow, 420 of pasture, 3 of wood and 56s. rent in Leycester, Burton Overay, Harborough, Great Bowden, Crafte, Busshbye, Thurnbye, Bocheston, Newton and Cropston, co. Leicester and a toft, 10 acres of meadow and 40 of pasture in Oxenden parva and Bowden parva, co. Northampton. Right of the plaintiffs.

N.B.--Anne was the daughter of Elizabeth (Shirley), the daughter of Thomas Walsshe, and Joan was the daughter of Helen (Littleton), the other daughter and co-heir with Anne of Thomas Walsshe, of Wanlip.

Inquisition p.m. Thomas Pulteney, knight, Series ii, 63-36, taken at Leicester on 20 October, 33 Henry VIII, 1541. The jury say that Thomas Pulteney was seised in his demesne as of fee of the manor of Misterton and 100 acres of meadow and 80 of pasture in Misterton, also of the advowson of the church of Misterton. Also of the manor of Pulteney and 1000 acres of pasture in Pulteney. And of 6 messuages, 10 virgates of land and 6s. 5 and 1/2d. rent in North Kilworth, 3 messuages and 3 virgates of land in Walcot, a messuage and half a virgate of land in South Kilworth, a messuage in Lutterworth, a messuage and virgate of land in Cottesbiche, and a messuage and 3 virgates of land in Harborough. Also of the manor of Cotes Deyville and 100 acres of land, 40 of meadow and 200 of pasture in Cotes Deyville, Also of the manors of Claybroke and Ullesthorp and 3 messuages and a virgate of land in Sharnford, 100s. of rent in Busshby and Thurnby, a messuage and virgate of land in Shawelby, a cottage in Bittesby, a meadow in Burton Overy, a messuage and 3 virgates of land in Great Petlyng, a close in Neutowne and a close in Bocheston.

One moiety of the manor of Misterton was held of John, bishop of Lincoln by service of a fourth part of one knight's fee. The other moiety was held of Henry, marquis of Dorset, as parcel of the fee of Wynton, by a fourth part of a knight's fee and worth £45 2s. 0d.

One moiety of the manor of Pulteney was held of the same bishop, and the other moiety was held of the same marquis, as of the honour of Wynton, and worth £30. Thomas Pulteney died 3 August, 1540. Francis Pulteney, esq., is his son and heir and aged 34 years at this date.

PCC wills, PCC 10 Alenger. Will of Thomas Pulteney, knight, 3 October 1539. My body to be buried in Our Lady Chapel in the church of Misterton. To the church of Misterton a whole suit of vestments of violet velvet, that is to say, a cope and a vestment and one other for the deacon and another for the sub-deacon, whereupon I will my arms shall be set upon the same vestments. Vestments of white damask to various other contiguous churches. To Francis Pulteney, my son and heir, a bason and ewer of silver parcel gilt and 2 silver pots parcel gilt. To my son, Sherard, and to my daughter, Rose, his wife, one gilt goblet of silver with a cover and a silver bowl with cover, whereupon my arms to be graven. To my son, Richard Pulteney, a gilt goblet and a silver bowl. To my brother William Pulteney, my high standing cup with a cover all gilt. To Michael Pulteney, eldest son and heir to my said son, Francis, one little pounced with a cover all gilt.

To my sister Margaret Brasbrygge, one little silver cup with a cover parcel gilt and to Bennett Wyllens one silver salt. To Ellen Sherard one silver salt and to Elizabeth Pulteney, daughter to my son, Francis, a silver bowl, and to Margery Prest one old salt.

I will that my executors keep house at Misterton by the space of three months and all such persons as shall be my servants at the time of my death shall there freely have their meat and drink.

I'm interested in the Elizabeth Pulteney, daughter of Sir Thomas Pulteney, who married Sir William Feilding, and whether or not she was a daughter of the Thomas Poultney whose will was referenced in the previous message. Although the writer notes that the will referred (among others) to a daughter Elizabeth, the actual text of the will given later seems to me to indicate that this Elizabeth was the daughter, not of Thomas, but of his son Francis.

From the will of Sir William Feilding dated 15 Apr 1540 (PRO Catalogue PROB 11/31, proved 29 Nov 1547), we know that his first wife Elizabeth was dead and that he had married again and had another son by his new wife Isabel as of the date of his will. If a daughter of the Sir Thomas Poultney who died in 1540, then, Elizabeth would not have been mentioned in that will, if she had died before 3 Oct 1539 when Thomas Poultney wrote his will.

From the will of Sir William Feilding dated 15 Apr 1540, we also know that he not only had taken a new wife, Isabel, but also had a son Faustine by that new wife, from which one can infer that Elizabeth Feilding nee Pulteney must have died at least before July 1539.

Can anyone on the list shed light, then, on just when his first wife Elizabeth Pulteney died, and confirm whether or not she was a daughter of the Sir Thomas Poultney who died in 1540 and Anne Shirley? A birth or marriage date would also be a welcome addition for her.

Thanks in advance,

Lynn Scott

At 12:52 AM 1/26/2005, you wrote:>I have a great deal on the Pulteney family and this may be of help to you.>The will of Thomas Poultney who died on August 3, 1540, does not mention >all his>children. He was married to Anne Shirley. This is the documentation I have on>Thomas Poultney:>>J. Nichols - Antiquities of Leicestershire- Vol. IV Part I sub Misterton page>309:>>Thomas de Pulteney married Anne daughter of Sir Ralph Shirley; by whom he had>two sons Francis, his successor and Thomas, from whom the later Earls of Bath>descended. He had five daughters; Elizabeth, Agnes, Roesia, Margaret and>Dorothy.>>Sir Thomas Pulteney died in 1540.>>He left a PCC will - PCC 10 Alenger. In the will he names his son[in-law]>George Sherard [husband of his daughter Rose Poultney] his sister Margaret >and>his brother William Poultney. He also names his eldest son Francis >Poultney and>his daughter Elizabeth Poultney.><snip>>PCC wills, PCC 10 Alenger. Will of Thomas Pulteney, knight, 3 October 1539.>My body to be buried in Our Lady Chapel in the church of Misterton. To the>church of Misterton a whole suit of vestments of violet velvet, that is to >say, a>cope and a vestment and one other for the deacon and another for the>sub-deacon, whereupon I will my arms shall be set upon the same vestments. >Vestments of>white damask to various other contiguous churches. To Francis Pulteney, my>son and heir, a bason and ewer of silver parcel gilt and 2 silver pots parcel>gilt. To my son, Sherard, and to my daughter, Rose, his wife, one gilt >goblet of>silver with a cover and a silver bowl with cover, whereupon my arms to be>graven. To my son, Richard Pulteney, a gilt goblet and a silver bowl. To my>brother William Pulteney, my high standing cup with a cover all gilt. To >Michael>Pulteney, eldest son and heir to my said son, Francis, one little pounced >with a>cover all gilt.>>To my sister Margaret Brasbrygge, one little silver cup with a cover parcel>gilt and to Bennett Wyllens one silver salt. To Ellen Sherard one silver salt>and to Elizabeth Pulteney, daughter to my son, Francis, a silver bowl, and to>Margery Prest one old salt.>>I will that my executors keep house at Misterton by the space of three months>and all such persons as shall be my servants at the time of my death shall>there freely have their meat and drink.>>Residuary legatees and executors: my son, George Sherard, my brother, William>Pulteney, Sir John Thompson, chaplain, and my servant, Thomas Cotton.>Supervisor: my son, Francis Pulteney.>>proved 25 August 1540.>>>Best Regards,>MichaelAnne Guido

I only know of two Sir Thomas Pulteneys, the one whose will wasprobated in 1540 and the one whose will was probated in 1507. Sheseems most likely to have been a daughter of the earlier Sir ThomasPulteney based on the dates.

I have a copy of this will, of Sir Thomas Pulteney whose will wasproved in August 1540. I can understand the handwriting in the will alittle better now from the transcript you have provided me. He doesn'tmention a daughter named Margaret so I'm wondering where the idea thathe had a daughter named Margaret came from. He does indeed mention asister named Margaret Brasbrygge and the question does arise whetherMargaret Brasbygge could have been married to a Thomas Payne earlierand this was her second marriage.

I also have a copy of the will of a Sir Thomas Pulteney whose will wasproved in June 1507. He mentions a William Button _ of Misterton.He also mentions a Thomas Pulteney. He mentions a William Sp_ orAshby? and a Johane Campion. He seems to mention a Margaret Roberts?and a wife named Agnes. I'm not quite sure if he's the father of SirThomas whose will was probated in 1540.

On Wednesday, January 26, 2005 at 5:53:06 AM UTC, ***@aol.com wrote:> I have a great deal on the Pulteney family and this may be of help to you. > The will of Thomas Poultney who died on August 3, 1540, does not mention all his > children. He was married to Anne Shirley. This is the documentation I have on > Thomas Poultney:> > J. Nichols - Antiquities of Leicestershire- Vol. IV Part I sub Misterton page > 309:> > Thomas de Pulteney married Anne daughter of Sir Ralph Shirley; by whom he had > two sons Francis, his successor and Thomas, from whom the later Earls of Bath > descended. He had five daughters; Elizabeth, Agnes, Roesia, Margaret and > Dorothy.> > Sir Thomas Pulteney died in 1540.> > He left a PCC will - PCC 10 Alenger. In the will he names his son[in-law] > George Sherard [husband of his daughter Rose Poultney] his sister Margaret and > his brother William Poultney. He also names his eldest son Francis Poultney and > his daughter Elizabeth Poultney.> > George F. Farnham, Leicestershire Medieval Village Notes, Vol. III, Edgar > Backus, 1929, Leicester, sub Misterton, pages 229-231:> > Cal. Patent rolls 1494-1509, p. 559, 29 May, 1508. Licence of entry without > proof of age for Thomas Pulteney, kinsman and heir of Thomas Pulteney, knight, > who held of the king in chief, on all the lands of the said Thomas.> > De Banco roll 984, Easter, 23 Henry VII, 1508, membrane 24, London: Henry > Stafford, knight, and the marchioness of Dorset v. Thomas Pulteney, of Misterton, > co. Leicester, esquire, William Assheby, of Lowesby, esq., William Burton, of > Misterton, clerk, Adam Oates and Robert Holcote, both of Misterton, > gentlemen, executors of the will of Thomas Pulteney, of Misterton, knight, in a plea of > £17.> > Ibid. membrane 425, Leycester: William Skevyngton, esq., and Richard Aldy, of > Groby, clerk, executors of the will of Thomas, marquis of Dorset, and Cecily, > marchioness of Dorset, executrix of the same will, were summoned to answer > Thomas Pulteney, esq., William Assheby, esq., William Burton, clerk, Adam Cotes > and Robert Holcote, executors of the will of Thomas Pulteney, kt., in a plea > of £34 13s. 0d. which they say the marquis on 6 February, 13 Henry VII, 1498, > granted to Thomas Pulteney, the testator, for his good service and advice, with > the office of Steward of his lordship of Lutterworth for term of his life. > They ask leave to imparl.> > Common pleas roll 1025, 11 Henry VIII, Trinity, 1519, membrane 463. Thomas > Pulteney, esq., v. many persons (named) in a plea that they permit him to > present a suitable parson to the church of Shawell, which is void, and the > presentation belongs to him.> > Lay Subsidy roll, 133-122, 15 Henry VIII, 1524. Thomas Pulteney, knight, in > lands £160, tax £8.> > Fine, Easter, 17 Henry VIII, 1525. Between Thomas Pulteney, knight, and Anne, > his wife, one of the kinswomen and heirs of Thomas Walsshe, plaintiffs, and > Joan Aston, widow, another kinswoman and heir of the said Thomas Walsshe, > defendant of the manors of Nether Whitacre and Holte Hall and 34 messuages, 10 > tofts, 500 acres of land, 110 of meadow, 306 of wood, 400 of furze and heath and > 50s. 8d. rent in Whitacre, Fresley, Holte Hall and Walton by street, co. > Warwick, and the manors of Welshall and Burton Overy and 38 messuages, 6 tofts, a > watermill, 900 acres of land, 160 of meadow, 420 of pasture, 3 of wood and 56s. > rent in Leycester, Burton Overay, Harborough, Great Bowden, Crafte, Busshbye, > Thurnbye, Bocheston, Newton and Cropston, co. Leicester and a toft, 10 acres > of meadow and 40 of pasture in Oxenden parva and Bowden parva, co. Northampton. > Right of the plaintiffs.> > N.B.--Anne was the daughter of Elizabeth (Shirley), the daughter of Thomas > Walsshe, and Joan was the daughter of Helen (Littleton), the other daughter and > co-heir with Anne of Thomas Walsshe, of Wanlip.> > Inquisition p.m. Thomas Pulteney, knight, Series ii, 63-36, taken at > Leicester on 20 October, 33 Henry VIII, 1541. The jury say that Thomas Pulteney was > seised in his demesne as of fee of the manor of Misterton and 100 acres of > meadow and 80 of pasture in Misterton, also of the advowson of the church of > Misterton. Also of the manor of Pulteney and 1000 acres of pasture in Pulteney. And > of 6 messuages, 10 virgates of land and 6s. 5 and 1/2d. rent in North > Kilworth, 3 messuages and 3 virgates of land in Walcot, a messuage and half a virgate > of land in South Kilworth, a messuage in Lutterworth, a messuage and virgate > of land in Cottesbiche, and a messuage and 3 virgates of land in Harborough. > Also of the manor of Cotes Deyville and 100 acres of land, 40 of meadow and 200 > of pasture in Cotes Deyville, Also of the manors of Claybroke and Ullesthorp > and 3 messuages and a virgate of land in Sharnford, 100s. of rent in Busshby > and Thurnby, a messuage and virgate of land in Shawelby, a cottage in Bittesby, > a meadow in Burton Overy, a messuage and 3 virgates of land in Great Petlyng, > a close in Neutowne and a close in Bocheston.> > One moiety of the manor of Misterton was held of John, bishop of Lincoln by > service of a fourth part of one knight's fee. The other moiety was held of > Henry, marquis of Dorset, as parcel of the fee of Wynton, by a fourth part of a > knight's fee and worth £45 2s. 0d.> > One moiety of the manor of Pulteney was held of the same bishop, and the > other moiety was held of the same marquis, as of the honour of Wynton, and worth > £30. Thomas Pulteney died 3 August, 1540. Francis Pulteney, esq., is his son > and heir and aged 34 years at this date.> > PCC wills, PCC 10 Alenger. Will of Thomas Pulteney, knight, 3 October 1539. > My body to be buried in Our Lady Chapel in the church of Misterton. To the > church of Misterton a whole suit of vestments of violet velvet, that is to say, a > cope and a vestment and one other for the deacon and another for the > sub-deacon, whereupon I will my arms shall be set upon the same vestments. Vestments of > white damask to various other contiguous churches. To Francis Pulteney, my > son and heir, a bason and ewer of silver parcel gilt and 2 silver pots parcel > gilt. To my son, Sherard, and to my daughter, Rose, his wife, one gilt goblet of > silver with a cover and a silver bowl with cover, whereupon my arms to be > graven. To my son, Richard Pulteney, a gilt goblet and a silver bowl. To my > brother William Pulteney, my high standing cup with a cover all gilt. To Michael > Pulteney, eldest son and heir to my said son, Francis, one little pounced with a > cover all gilt.> > To my sister Margaret Brasbrygge, one little silver cup with a cover parcel > gilt and to Bennett Wyllens one silver salt. To Ellen Sherard one silver salt > and to Elizabeth Pulteney, daughter to my son, Francis, a silver bowl, and to > Margery Prest one old salt.> > I will that my executors keep house at Misterton by the space of three months > and all such persons as shall be my servants at the time of my death shall > there freely have their meat and drink.> > Residuary legatees and executors: my son, George Sherard, my brother, William > Pulteney, Sir John Thompson, chaplain, and my servant, Thomas Cotton. > Supervisor: my son, Francis Pulteney.> > proved 25 August 1540.> > > Best Regards,> MichaelAnne Guido

Elizabeth Poultney married Twice. Her first husband was Thomas Andrew of Charwelton, co. Northampton by whom she had at least two sons Edmund and Richard. Her second husband was Sir William Feilding by whom she had three children:

1. Sir Basil Feilding married Goditha Willington of Barcheston co. Warwick2. Barbara Feilding who married Richard Cave3. Everard Feilding who left three sons Basil, Faustin and William who married Anne Thwaytes [Starford co. York Feildings].

She is recorded by J. Nicholas in his Antiquities of Leicestershire Vol. IV Part I, sub Lutterworth, page 288:

Sir William Feilding is buried in the chancel of Monks Kirby Church in co. Warwick, under a raised tomb, whereon lies the effigies of a knight in armour, with his wife by him, both at full length, with a lion at their feet, and this inscription:

Here lyeth the body of Sir William Fielding, knight, late of Padoxe-Newnham; which deceased the xxiv of Septmebre, MDXLVII. And Elizabeth his wife, daughter of Sir Thomas Poultney, which deceased the viii of Septem. MDXXXIX. who had issue two sons and one daughter.

So she died Sept. 8, 1539 according to Nichols. She is the daughter of Thomas Poultney [died May 7, 1507] by his wife Roesia Lucy of Charlecote, co. Warwickshire. This is shown by her lawsuit against her nephew Thomas Poultney [who married Anne Shirley] and who was also executor to his grandfather's will as his father John Poultney had predeceased his grandfather. John Poultney died Jan. 20, 1491/2. He left an only son Thomas Poultney born in 1480 who married Anne Shirley. When Thomas Poultney [father of John] died on May 7, 1507, his next heir was his grandson Thomas Poultney:

Pedigree of Poultney from J. Nichols _ Antiquities of Leicestershire_ sub. Walcote in Misterton Vol. IV part I page 319:

Thomas de Pulteney, who was Sheriff of Leicester and Warwick 1480 and 1493; and at the coronation of Elizabeth, queen of Henry VII, was made a knight of Bath. He died May 7, 1507; and by his will dated April 22, 1507 styles himself of Misteron, and orders his body to be buried in the chancel of the White Friars of Coventry, attended by 24 poor men, each in a gown, with a leopard's head behind and before, and carrying as many torches. He also bequeathed £20 toward making the chamber in White Friars there, where he used to lie; and 6s. 8d. to the bachelors of White Friars, to say a sermon in the church of Misterton; to which he also bequeathed his best velvet gown with fur, and his other gown of black velvet to make vestments.

Page 313:

The church in Misterton is dedicated to St. Leonard. The following armsand inscriptions were noted by Burton in his history of Leicester:

On the North side of the church at Misterton:Pulteney impaling, Gules, seme of cross crosslets, three luces haurient OR. Lucy.

Under it on a scroll, Thomas Pulteney - Roise Lucy

The Pulteney arms were quartered with Lucy, Walshe and Byron.

He left a PCC will - PCC 24 Adeane.In this will he names his heir Thomas Poultney and his other grandson William Poultney. He also named his Godson Edward Andrews.

This is the father and mother of Elizabeth Poultney who married (1) Thomas Andrews and (2) Sir William Feilding. In a chancery suit later she sues her nephew Sir Thomas Poultney [who married Anne Shirley] and both are identified.

C1/310/60William Fyldyng and Elizabeth, his wife, late the wife of Thomas Andrewe, and daughter of Thomas Pulteney, knight, deceased v. Thomas Pulteney, heir and executor of the said Thomas Pulteney, knight: Detention of bonds by Andrewe to purchase lands for the said Elizabeth's jointure, never executed.

Ibid. Deed enrolled. Thomas Pounteney, of Misterton, co. Leicester, knight, lately called Thomas Pounteney, esquire, came into court on 30 January in this term and enrolled a deed in these words: "Know all men that we, Thomas Pounteney, of Misterton, co. Leicester, knight, and John Pounteney, son and heir apparent of the same Thomas, have quitclaimed to Reginald Sondes of Trulegh, co. Kent, esq., and others as feoffees to the use of Reginald, his heirs, etc. all the right and claim which we had or can have in the said manor of Trulegh." Dated 3 December.

Inquisition p.m. Thomas Pulteney, knight, taken at Leicester on 20 June, 22 Henry VII, 1507. the jury say that Thomas Pulteney was seised in his demesne as of fee of the manor of Misterton and 100 acres of meadow and 800 of pasture in Misterton and the advowson of the church of Misterton. Also of the manor of Pulteney and 1000 acres of pasture in Pulteney, 6 messuages and 10 virgates of land in North Kilworth, a messuage and half virgate in South Kilworth and a messuage in Lutterworth. The jury further say that Richard Howkyns, clerk, was seised of the manor of Cotes Devyle and 100 acres of land, 40 of meadow and 200 of pasture in Cotes Devyle and so seised, by a charter dated 15 June, 8 Henry VII, 1493, granted the same to Rose Pulteney, widow, late the wife of John Pulteney, esq., to hold for her life, and Rose is still thereof seised.

The manor of Misterton was held, as to one moiety, of William, bishop of Lincoln, and as to the other moiety, of Thomas, marquis of Dorset, as of the fee of Wynton, by a fourth part of a knight's fee.

The manor of Pulteney was similarly held. Thomas Pulteney died on 7 May last. Thomas Pulteney is kinsman and next heir, namely, son of John, son of the aforesaid Thomas Pulteney, knight, and aged 27 years and more.

Many thanks for a wealth of information on Sir Thomas Poultney (d 1507) and his daughter Elizabeth who married Sir William Feilding.

The death date you provided from J. Nichol for Elizabeth Poultney, however, presents me with a slight problem. If she died, as the tomb inscription apparently indicates, on 8 Sep 1539, and if the copy of Sir William Feilding's will in the PRO bears the correct date for his making his will, on 16 Apr 1540 (and the writing of the copy is quite clear in this instance), Sir William managed in only seven months to bury his first wife (Elizabeth Poultney), marry his second wife (Isabel Bosworth), and see the birth of a son of this second marriage (Faustyne Filding).

Is such fast work at a second family credible? I've found no evidence among my somewhat limited resources to suggest any other mother for the son Faustyne, and the will states clearly "I bequeath to my sonne Faustyne Filding an hundreth pounde(s) to be paide and delyu(er)ed by his mother at her Discression," which I have interpreted to mean that Faustyne was his child by his then-living second wife Isabel. There are several references to Faustyne and Everard as his younger sons, as well as to his eldest son Basil.

Any thoughts on this would be welcome, as to whether the copyist who produced the copy in the PRO made an error in the copy, whether a second marriage would have followed the death of a first wife so quickly, what likelihood of a premature child surviving, etc.?

Thanks.

Lynn Scott

At 04:42 PM 1/26/2005, you wrote:>Elizabeth Poultney married Twice. Her first husband was Thomas Andrew of>Charwelton, co. Northampton by whom she had at least two sons Edmund and >Richard.>Her second husband was Sir William Feilding by whom she had three children:><snip>>MichaelAnne>

Thomas de Pulteney married Anne daughter of Sir Ralph Shirley; by whom he had two sons Francis, his successor and Thomas, from whom the later Earls of Bath descended. He had five daughters; Elizabeth, Agnes, Roesia, Margaret and Dorothy.

You mention that Sir Thomas Pulteney (will probated 1540) had JohnPulteney, esq. as his father, and that John Pulteney, esq.'s father wasSir Thomas Pulteney (will probated 1507). Here you refer to John'swife as Rose Pulteney. Any ideas on what was the maiden name of Rose,wife of John Pulteney, esq.?

"Devyle and so seised, by a charter dated 15 June, 8Henry VII, 1493, granted the same to Rose Pulteney, widow, late thewife ofJohnPulteney, esq., to hold for her life, and Rose is still thereofseised."

Sir William Feilding died Sept. 24, 1547. This is stated on his monument inscription. His PCC will was dated April 8, 1547, and probated in November 1547. The will is PCC 49 Alen.After the death of Elizabeth Poultney he remarried Isabel Bosworth and had one son Faustin Feilding.

Shaw, William A. _Knights of England_ Vol. 2; London, 1906:

Page 49:

Knight Bachelor - May 24, 1533 knights made at Greenwich before the coronation of Queen Anne Boleyn on the Sunday before Whitsunday (Pentecost) William Feldynge

William Feilding left a will dated April 8, 1547. PCC 49 Alen. Proved November 1547 in PCC. He names his parents as Sir Edward (anglicized Everard) Feilding and Gillis Feilding. His late wife as Elizabeth Feilding and requests to be buried next to her. He lists his current wife as Isabel (Bosworth). He names Lutterworth as left to him by his late wife Elizabeth (Poultney) Feilding. Names sons: Basil, Edward (Everard) and Faustin Feilding. Mentions land in Todington as part of the marriage contract between William Willington of Barcheston, Warwickshire and himself for the marriage of their children Goditha Willington and Basil Feilding, his heir.

Sir William Feilding is buried in the chancel of Monks Kirby Church in co. Warwick, under a raised tomb, whereon lies the effigies of a knight in armour, with his wife by him, both at full length, with a lion at their feet, and this inscription:

Here lyeth the body of Sir William Fielding, knight, late of Padoxe-Newnham; which deceased the xxiv of Septmebre, MDXLVII. And Elizabeth his wife, daughter of Sir Thomas Poultney, which deceased the viii of Septem. MDXXXIX. who had issue two sons and one daughter.

I know this monument is still standing and the inscription is still visible as a friend in Warwickshire went to Monk's Kirby church and took the information off the monument for me again on February 19, 2002, so I could verify the information provided by Nichols.

Faustin Feilding died in 1584. I have a copy of his IPM from the PRO. In it he names his wife Margaret and two sons William and Anthony. William predeceased his father. William Feilding left a will PCC 32 Butts dated February 21, 1583. His will was probated March 30, 1582. He leaves bequests to his father Faustin Feilding and his mother and also his brother Anthony Feilding. He left one large bequest of £20 to a friend Oliver Babington. He died sp. I have no other information on this branch of the family. There is one reference to Faustin Feilding in the Patent rolls:

Calendar of the Patent Rolls Elizabeth I Vol. VI 1572-1575, published by the Public Record Office London 1973: page 445:

#2792 Nov. 4, 1575 John Flower, Faustin Feldinge, George Mackworth and William Rudd, feodary of the county of Rutland, ( or two of them, the feodary being one); p.m. George Sherard.

Thanks very much again for sharing what you have on Elizabeth Poultney/Sir William Feilding. I have in front of me a copy of Sir William Feilding's will obtained from the Public Record Office (PROB 11/31, Name of Register, Alen), which clearly begins: "In dei nomme Amen In the yeare of our Lorde god a Thousand five hundred and Fourty the xvj daye of Aprill I William Filding of Newnam in the parishe of Monkes Kirkby in the Comtie of Warwike...". The gist of the contents is as stated in the previous message The probate date according to the PRO index is as 29 November 1547, though I should note that I have some question marks in my own transcription of the probate date as actually written in the copy. For the date of writing given in the will, there is no space, erasure, insertion or deletion visible, and no matter how I read it, it still comes out 16 April 1540. Do you or anyone know of another copy of this will, or has anyone seen the original of this will, to confirm whether or not the copyist who created the version in the Public Record Office made an error in the date?

As you can see, my issue is not with his date of death, or with the references to various family members in the will, but simply with the actual date when Sir William wrote his will, in light of the date in the copy I obtained from the PRO, as it does have implications for the date of his marriage to Isabel and the birthdate of his son Faustin.

Sorry to be so finicky!

Lynn Scott

At 03:16 PM 1/28/2005, you wrote:>Dear Lynn,>>Sir William Feilding died Sept. 24, 1547. This is stated on his monument>inscription. His PCC will was dated April 8, 1547, and probated in >November 1547.>The will is PCC 49 Alen.>After the death of Elizabeth Poultney he remarried Isabel Bosworth and had>one son Faustin Feilding.><snip>>William Feilding left a will dated April 8, 1547. PCC 49 Alen. Proved>November 1547 in PCC.><snip>>MichaelAnne

I got out my copy of the will and can see where you are getting this from. The copy I have came from microfilm many years ago and the will above it is from 1544. This would lead me to believe that there is a transcription error in the copy we both have and this will was dated at least in 1543-4.

On Tuesday, January 25, 2005 at 9:39:34 PM UTC, Chuck Owens wrote:> Hello List,> > I am trying to find out the ancestry of Sir Thomas Payne and his wife> Margaret Pulteney of Market Bosworth, Leicestershire, late 15th-early> 16th century. According to secondary sources, Margaret's father was a> Sir Thomas Pulteney who may have been from Misterton, Leicestershire.> One Sir Thomas who was married to Ann Shirley is usually listed as> Margaret's father but Margaret may have actually been the daughter of a> Sir Thomas Pulteney who was married to a Rose (Lucy or ?), and who may> have been the other Thomas' father or uncle. I have examined three> different Pulteney wills, a Thomas from 1507, a Thomas from 1540, and a> John from the late 1400s, and I cannot seem to find any mention of a> daughter Margaret who was married to a Thomas Payne. Granted my> ability to read the handwriting of that time period is rather limited.> Any help, especially, if it is based on primary sources, would be> greatly appreciated.> > Thanks,> > Chuck Owens

Hello,

I'm very interested in the will of Sir Thomas Pulteney from 1509. I know this exchange took place a long time ago (2005?) but I'd be so grateful if someone could let me know the reference for the will if possible please? I've had a look at The National Archives and it's not immediately obvious. Thanks!

On Tuesday, January 25, 2005 at 9:39:34 PM UTC, Chuck Owens wrote:> Hello List,> > I am trying to find out the ancestry of Sir Thomas Payne and his wife> Margaret Pulteney of Market Bosworth, Leicestershire, late 15th-early> 16th century. According to secondary sources, Margaret's father was a> Sir Thomas Pulteney who may have been from Misterton, Leicestershire.> One Sir Thomas who was married to Ann Shirley is usually listed as> Margaret's father but Margaret may have actually been the daughter of a> Sir Thomas Pulteney who was married to a Rose (Lucy or ?), and who may> have been the other Thomas' father or uncle. I have examined three> different Pulteney wills, a Thomas from 1507, a Thomas from 1540, and a> John from the late 1400s, and I cannot seem to find any mention of a> daughter Margaret who was married to a Thomas Payne. Granted my> ability to read the handwriting of that time period is rather limited.> Any help, especially, if it is based on primary sources, would be> greatly appreciated.> > Thanks,> > Chuck Owens

On Tuesday, January 25, 2005 at 9:39:34 PM UTC, Chuck Owens wrote:> Hello List,>> I am trying to find out the ancestry of Sir Thomas Payne and his wife> Margaret Pulteney of Market Bosworth, Leicestershire, late 15th-early> 16th century. According to secondary sources, Margaret's father was a> Sir Thomas Pulteney who may have been from Misterton, Leicestershire.> One Sir Thomas who was married to Ann Shirley is usually listed as> Margaret's father but Margaret may have actually been the daughter of a> Sir Thomas Pulteney who was married to a Rose (Lucy or ?), and who may> have been the other Thomas' father or uncle. I have examined three> different Pulteney wills, a Thomas from 1507, a Thomas from 1540, and a> John from the late 1400s, and I cannot seem to find any mention of a> daughter Margaret who was married to a Thomas Payne. Granted my> ability to read the handwriting of that time period is rather limited.> Any help, especially, if it is based on primary sources, would be> greatly appreciated.>> Thanks,>> Chuck Owens

Sorry, re my above post, I had meant to write 1507.

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On Sunday, January 24, 2016 at 3:33:04 PM UTC, Tompkins wrote:> Hello Katie - perhaps this one:> > Reference:PROB 11/15/513 > Description:Will of Sir Thomas Pultney > Date: 21 June 1507 > > > http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D972917> > Matt Tompkins> > PS Are you the Charnwood Roots Katie Bridger?> > ________________________________________> From: gen-medieval-***@rootsweb.com [gen-medieval-***@rootsweb.com] on behalf of katielbridger via [gen-***@rootsweb.com]> Sent: 24 January 2016 15:09> To: gen-***@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: Pulteney or Poultney Family of Misterton, Leicestershire> > On Tuesday, January 25, 2005 at 9:39:34 PM UTC, Chuck Owens wrote:> > Hello List,> >> > I am trying to find out the ancestry of Sir Thomas Payne and his wife> > Margaret Pulteney of Market Bosworth, Leicestershire, late 15th-early> > 16th century. According to secondary sources, Margaret's father was a> > Sir Thomas Pulteney who may have been from Misterton, Leicestershire.> > One Sir Thomas who was married to Ann Shirley is usually listed as> > Margaret's father but Margaret may have actually been the daughter of a> > Sir Thomas Pulteney who was married to a Rose (Lucy or ?), and who may> > have been the other Thomas' father or uncle. I have examined three> > different Pulteney wills, a Thomas from 1507, a Thomas from 1540, and a> > John from the late 1400s, and I cannot seem to find any mention of a> > daughter Margaret who was married to a Thomas Payne. Granted my> > ability to read the handwriting of that time period is rather limited.> > Any help, especially, if it is based on primary sources, would be> > greatly appreciated.> >> > Thanks,> >> > Chuck Owens> > Sorry, re my above post, I had meant to write 1507.> > -------------------------------> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEVAL-***@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Matt,

Many thanks for that. I hadn't considered an alternative spelling - a silly oversight on my part. Yes, that's me! Thanks again.