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" I am not sure if this is worth the grief, trying to honestly help and then getting lampooned for doing so."

Funny, I feel the same way.

Then tell me why you fell that way, rather than leaving a cryptic response. If I did something to you personally, please tell me, because there can be no understanding without dialog. The fact that posters are here, discussing really tough topics, tells me that we are all adults here, so can we try and act like them? I do not walk on water and if I step out of line, I expect someone to tell me so. I have no problem reviewing my behavior or words and when I am either wrong or insensitive, I am the first to apologize. But when the discussion degrades and begins to include personal attacks, then nothing results other than hard feeling all around.

Just in case, I wish to apologize to anyone who was offended by my comments. From my viewpoint, this thread has reached a consensus, regarding respecting our experiences and our shared commitment to not let HIV stop us from fulfilling lives. I see a lot of positive here, between the barbs and maybe, it would serve our purpose better, if we downplayed the negative and concentrated on our shared values and beliefs. I urge you to reread many of the posts, setting any attitude aside and see if you can see what I do.

modified to add: drewm sent me a PM and explained his position and we are good. I'm leaving my post in hopes others can see that this remains a positive thread.

Is this what you think I did? It was never my intention to demean anyone and I do not believe I did so. However, some of the blanket statements here, cast a shadow on every post in this thread. I am not sure if this is worth the grief, trying to honestly help and then getting lampooned for doing so.

Joe,

I respect you tremendously, but really, not everything written on here is about your personally. My comments were general -- and while they probably could be about a number of posters in this thread, I had no one particular in mind when I wrote them. All I was attempting to do was remind everyone that each person's experiences are their own and are valid.

And quite frankly, you can take what you said in the quoted posted here and apply it to what you seem to be doing to me. I am trying to help, but first, you took a general message very personally and then moved on to accusing me of "lampooning" your attempts at helping. I'm not sure why you are playing the victim here -- you've met me, do I seem like the type that would do this to you?

I respect you tremendously, but really, not everything written on here is about your personally. My comments were general -- and while they probably could be about a number of posters in this thread, I had no one particular in mind when I wrote them. All I was attempting to do was remind everyone that each person's experiences are their own and are valid.

And quite frankly, you can take what you said in the quoted posted here and apply it to what you seem to be doing to me. I am trying to help, but first, you took a general message very personally and then moved on to accusing me of "lampooning" your attempts at helping. I'm not sure why you are playing the victim here -- you've met me, do I seem like the type that would do this to you?

Mike

I was asking if I was contributing to the thread or not. A simple question and it does not matter, as this is not about me. I know you are trying to help and I apologize in that some of my wording should have made my thoughts clearer.

I can let my ass overload my mouth. I always thought that was a privilege of age (I'm not a twink anymore unfortunately) and while I expect it shown to me, sometimes I can be quick to bite someone else. There's an irony, in a way, that something that should draw us together for a lot of very important reasons can be so divisive and ugly.

I am very honest, after growing up a fag in Indiana, tormented, teased and bullied, like a lot of people, I simply don't have time for fantasy and facade's anymore. Sometimes I can be too real but I wear my heart on my sleeve. What you see is what you get.

I have made a hell of a lot of loud-mouthed enemies here even though that was never my intention. My goal was, and is, that out of constructive dialog and compassion for each other comes a greater understanding of just how wonderful we all truly are.

I apologize to anyone who was hurt by my words. I am as passionate and emotional about this as most of you. I'm not sorry for my passion or my outlook, only in my choice for how I talked to some of you folks. You don't deserve it...none of us do.

Logged

Diagnosed in May of 2010 with teh AIDS.

PCP Pneumonia . CD4 8 . VL 500,000

TRIUMEQ - VALTREX - FLUOXETINE - FENOFIBRATE - PRAVASTATIN - CIALIS

Numbers consistent since 12/2010 - VL has remained undetectable and CD4 is anywhere from 275-325

I believe the OP, and the original OPs (the OOPs as it were ) see HIV infection as adversity and were looking for stories of how people had turned this particular adversity into personal insight or action.

The use of adversity as a motivator for personal growth is a pretty common trope, across just about every human culture. And for every Barbara Ehrenreich there are 100 Siddharthas.

No one is arguing that HIV is anything other than adversity. I think there is violent agreement on many of the fundamentals.

In the interests of responding to the request made by the OP this thread, here's the last two paragraphs of my introductory post -- 3 years ago. They still sum it up pretty well for me.

"I'm very grateful for this site and for the pioneers, some of them here, who lobbied for research, tried med combinations and so willingly shared their lives and trials. I'm happy that I did not die in 2006, that I had the opportunity to rethink priorities and act on them. Each day of relative health, of connection with my family and friends is a blessing and I've become much more likely to stop and recognize that blessing on a daily basis. I'm grateful to have a nervous doctor, who looks after me with innate and sometimes even irritating caution. But I wish . . . that I could apply the same intensity and focus, the same stamina. . . I wish that I were not tied to a dosing schedule. . . . I wish I did not need to fear my blood would harm.

But mainly, I'm happy and grateful for each day. And when things are a little dark, I'm glad to have found this place and all of you."

I still feel the same tension between HIV as an undesirable companion and the fact that modern treatment made it possible to have an opportunity to stop, rethink and regroup. On an additional positive note, after 3 years on this site -- I don't worry so much about people being exposed to my blood

I was asking if I was contributing to the thread or not. A simple question and it does not matter, as this is not about me. I know you are trying to help and I apologize in that some of my wording should have made my thoughts clearer.

Joe,

Thanks! Unfortunately, the internet can make way to easy to misinterpret the intent of a message. I do enjoy reading your posts, your wisdom is certainly appreciated by me. I can always find some good nuggets, even in those times when I don't fully agree. It's amazing how much easier it is to do that once I've actually met someone -- and I'm glad our paths have crossed and hope they do again.

I actually think you could have if you would have deleted the first sentence.

I was referring to what I consider a lot of childlike 'behavior' from long-term members (not LTS's; I do want to make that distinction). Often, the whole reason for thread gets lost into so many back-and-forths between members. And, for the record, I did respond directly to the OP.

At any rate, I think we're back on track. Immediately after my diagnosis, I found these forums. I was somewhat in a state of disbelief fearing the worst - would I be healthy, could I continue working, how could I tell my family, etc. Many members responded positively to my concerns, which went a long way in helping me understand and, just as importantly, accept that I'm HIV+.

I'm glad to see this post revert back to being POSITIVE. Now lets all hold hands and sing Kum By Ya. I'll even smoke a bowl with you all for the first time in ages just to intensify the affect.

I'm still rebounding from my latest illness that almost obliterated me so I'm not back in the happy place yet. Perhaps I'll experience a different feeling soon.

I am happy to have lived long enough to see my favorite wine in box form. I'm also grateful to finally drive again and am happy to visit Amish country where they make the best Amish wine in the world. Buy 11 bottles and the 12th one is free.

Logged

Complacency is the enemy. Challenge yourself daily for maximum return on investment.

I hadn't seen this thread since it first got started, and I just finished reading the entire thing.

I am slap wore out.

After all that reading, I feel like I ought to post something now just for the sake of it, so I'l plunk down what I started to say the other day before I had to scoot when I was trying to come up with some sort of shiny-happy contribution:

My diagnosis led me to these forums, and from there to meeting some truly beautiful people. No wait. Actually, it was my admiration for the writings of jkinatl that led me here...and I knew him previously from elsewhere on the web.

Never mind.

It was just going to be some off the cuff post, but it feels a little more significant of a statement to me now.

Recently there have been 2 threads that started trying to be positive but ended up moving into a lot more complex history of HIV. I'd like everyone to just tell us of something positive that has happened in their life since dx, particularly if related to HIV.

Dot points appreciated. You don't have to explain it. It can be light hearted or something more profound. There are 1000's of people out there living happy, healthy lives. I'm sure some positively amazing things have happened to them that they can share, particularly with he newly dx.

- I got a free flu shot because of because of my immune system 'status'... and here I was thinking I'd have to wait till I was 65 to get a freebe.

- I'm closer to my mother then ever. We hugged for the first time in 15+ years.

- I respect myself.

1) I was able to meet some of the best people I've ever had the opportunity to know (here on the forums and at gatherings).

1) Have met some great, supportive people (perhaps, having HIV helped me better realize the importance of having supportive people in my life)2) I don't take some things in life as seriously as I used to --- and other things I take more seriously (such as adherance to taking my meds)3) I am less tolerant of bullshit in my life --- I don't have time to get caught up in other people's pity parties, etc.4) I try to be more understanding of other people's situations, shortcomings, opinions (which seems like a contradiction with #3, but not tolerating bs in my life is different than being more understanding of other people being okay with it in theirs)5) I am less quick to respond, more likely to listen

I'm sure there are other "positive" things that have come about as a result of me being diagnosed; although, I don't think that being HIV+ is a positive thing - it was rather the event and subsequent events that it brought about that may have resulted in some of the above happening. I also think that there are many other life events that could have had the same results w/o having to be HIV+ and I also think that an insightful, introspective human could have probably achieved all of the above and then some w/o being HIV+.

With so many things that I have been through in my life - many pre-HIV - I have always tried to maintain a positive outlook - it hasn't always been easy and I am not always successful in doing so, but I do try .

I hadn't seen this thread since it first got started, and I just finished reading the entire thing.

I am slap wore out.

Me too honey. I'm sorry feelings got hurt in this thread, especially JK's. He is one of the nicest, smartest, sweetest and genuine people you could ever hope to meet.

I stick mainly to the LTS forum nowadays; just feels more comfortable for me there. Our experiences will never seem relevant to the newly diagnosed, and I get that. It was a different world then.

Have a lot of positive things happened in my life since HIV diagnosis? Certainly. Did I miss a lot of positive things because of it? Oh yeah. Which tips the scale further? That is what I will never know, and neither will many of the LTSers of AIDSmeds who didn't have the options available that newly diagnosed folks do today.

Some positive things that have happened to me that would NOT have happened, if it were not for AIDS: meeting some of the great people here, including Joe, JK, Thunter, DavidNC, Jan, Mark, RAB, Andy, jg, and lots of others. That's the best answer I can give about positive things "coming as a result of HIV". But I have to weigh that positive experience against the one of meeting some great people who are no longer with us, like Daddy Tim, Lisa and Ric. I'm sure glad I got to know all of them. But then I had (and continue to have) to endure the pain of losing them.

New people, please just understand that we carry a lot of pain around with us every day. Physical, emotional, and psychological pain. It does shitty stuff to you.

Alan

« Last Edit: February 20, 2011, 04:32:11 PM by AlanBama »

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"Remember my sentimental friend that a heart is not judged by how much you love, but by how much you are loved by others." - The Wizard of Oz

New people, please just understand that we carry a lot of pain around with us every day. Physical, emotional, and psychological pain. It does shitty stuff to you.

Alan

Of course, and I am sure it is (or ought to be) appreciated that among some people new to this forum and indeed comparatively new to being poz (seven years is nothing I'm sure), might well have an awful lot of pain they are carrying around too: physical, emotional and psychological pain around the friends they've cared for and seen suffer and die.Making assumptions about who has that baggage, who doesn't and who has 'more' of it is sometimes just so easy to do.

One thing I have come to realize even more during the past 48 hours or so is that there is a lot of baggage being carried around by everyone. I guess its important that we all listen to each other and realize that our life experiences, although unfortunately similar, are also very different. We were raised differently, went to different schools, have faced tragedy or heartache and all react to it in different ways. It's doesn't make us right or wrong, it makes us human.

I have learned more about emotions and the pain of the soul than I probably wanted to during the past couple of days but it is a lesson well learned. As I have said before, for better and worse, we all own this bug, no one owns more than another but we can learn from the words each of us describe it with.

Thanks for listening...again.

Logged

Diagnosed in May of 2010 with teh AIDS.

PCP Pneumonia . CD4 8 . VL 500,000

TRIUMEQ - VALTREX - FLUOXETINE - FENOFIBRATE - PRAVASTATIN - CIALIS

Numbers consistent since 12/2010 - VL has remained undetectable and CD4 is anywhere from 275-325

Of course, and I am sure it is (or ought to be) appreciated that among some people new to this forum and indeed comparatively new to being poz (seven years is nothing I'm sure), might well have an awful lot of pain they are carrying around too: physical, emotional and psychological pain around the friends they've cared for and seen suffer and die.Making assumptions about who has that baggage, who doesn't and who has 'more' of it is sometimes just so easy to do.

Of course, and I am sure it is (or ought to be) appreciated that among some people new to this forum and indeed comparatively new to being poz (seven years is nothing I'm sure), might well have an awful lot of pain they are carrying around too: physical, emotional and psychological pain around the friends they've cared for and seen suffer and die.Making assumptions about who has that baggage, who doesn't and who has 'more' of it is sometimes just so easy to do.

Not sure why you seem so offended here?? We really have to stop reading someone's post and getting all worked up at a perceived slight - then responding in a way that is likely to ignite (or in this thread - reignite) a flame. I certainly did no interpret Alan's, rather eloquent, post to say he has more "baggage" than anyone else. We all have pain to deal with, but whether someone includes "your" pain when talking about "their" pain or not -- it doesn't mean they don't think it exists. This isn't a contest -- it is life, live it without looking for offense where none exists.

@Mike > I just re-read that post and take it a little different. I am not reading offense into it, rather a statement of his feelings perhaps. It's easy to take things here out of context. I am guilty of it myself. I have not walked in your shoes and you have not walked in mine. The same can be said for everyone here. Sometimes it's hard to see the forest for the trees. There have been some eloquent things posted in this thread and some of them have come from what looked like a bitter fight that now, upon reflection, was a very eye and mind opening experience for me.

It's easy to make baggage assumptions just like it's easy to feel attacked sometime. Perception can be reality. I feel like I am rambling...I hope this makes sense.

Logged

Diagnosed in May of 2010 with teh AIDS.

PCP Pneumonia . CD4 8 . VL 500,000

TRIUMEQ - VALTREX - FLUOXETINE - FENOFIBRATE - PRAVASTATIN - CIALIS

Numbers consistent since 12/2010 - VL has remained undetectable and CD4 is anywhere from 275-325

@Mike > I just re-read that post and take it a little different. I am not reading offense into it, rather a statement of his feelings perhaps. It's easy to take things here out of context. I am guilty of it myself. I have not walked in your shoes and you have not walked in mine. The same can be said for everyone here. Sometimes it's hard to see the forest for the trees. There have been some eloquent things posted in this thread and some of them have come from what looked like a bitter fight that now, upon reflection, was a very eye and mind opening experience for me.

It's easy to make baggage assumptions just like it's easy to feel attacked sometime. Perception can be reality. I feel like I am rambling...I hope this makes sense.

all I was trying to point out is that when someone is stating their reality and/or feelings -- just because it may not include you, does not mean someone is discounting your experience. It is THEIR FEELINGS or THEIR EXPERIENCE -- taking offense at that is a little over the top. If I talk about having blond hair (well, back when I did have hair), it doesn't include a discussion of people with red-hair, but I'm not discounting that redheads exist. You see if you go looking for things that offend, you will easily find them.

Of course, and I am sure it is (or ought to be) appreciated that among some people new to this forum and indeed comparatively new to being poz (seven years is nothing I'm sure), might well have an awful lot of pain they are carrying around too: physical, emotional and psychological pain around the friends they've cared for and seen suffer and die.Making assumptions about who has that baggage, who doesn't and who has 'more' of it is sometimes just so easy to do.

So Matt, THAT is the meaning you took from my post? That I think I have more 'baggage' than others here? Give me a break. I know I am not a 'skilled writer', but it seems that some of y'all are just gunning for something to be P.O.'d about. Why is that?

Logged

"Remember my sentimental friend that a heart is not judged by how much you love, but by how much you are loved by others." - The Wizard of Oz

So Matt, THAT is the meaning you took from my post? That I think I have more 'baggage' than others here? Give me a break. I know I am not a 'skilled writer', but it seems that some of y'all are just gunning for something to be P.O.'d about. Why is that?

Those of us that know you Alan know and appreciate exactly what you are saying .

Of course, and I am sure it is (or ought to be) appreciated that among some people new to this forum and indeed comparatively new to being poz (seven years is nothing I'm sure), might well have an awful lot of pain they are carrying around too: physical, emotional and psychological pain around the friends they've cared for and seen suffer and die.Making assumptions about who has that baggage, who doesn't and who has 'more' of it is sometimes just so easy to do.

So Matt, how you could construe the above statement from what Alan said is beyond me.

If you knew Alan, you would know he is without doubt the kindest, most loving and most gentlemanly man you will ever meet.

I don't doubt you have luggage you are toting around, in fact, I would place money on it. Nobody is denigrating your experience, or lack thereof.

This isn't a competition.

But, if you have been positive for seven years, you could not share the same history as those who have been at it for 20 or 30 years.

Also, I don't know your age, but unless you are in your late 40s or older, it would be unrealistic to believe you have shared in the overwhelming loss of the first decade of AIDS.

This isn't a denigration or judgement, it is simple logic, because if you are any younger than that, you would have been a child at the time.

Your arguments have rapidly descended to the level of childishness that is unbecoming.

So Matt, how you could construe the above statement from what Alan said is beyond me.

If you knew Alan, you would know he is without doubt the kindest, most loving and most gentlemanly man you will ever meet.

I don't doubt you have luggage you are toting around, in fact, I would place money on it. Nobody is denigrating your experience, or lack thereof.

This isn't a competition.

But, if you have been positive for seven years, you could not share the same history as those who have been at it for 20 or 30 years.

Also, I don't know your age, but unless you are in your late 40s or older, it would be unrealistic to believe you have shared in the overwhelming loss of the first decade of AIDS.

This isn't a denigration or judgement, it is simple logic, because if you are any younger than that, you would have been a child at the time.

Your arguments have rapidly descended to the level of childishness that is unbecoming.

I am 53 and I consider myself fortunate not to have had to face being poz personally until 7 years ago.

But to suggest I can't understand what it is like to have been poz for 25 years+ is the kind of assumption that should simply not be made. I was first caring for someone just under 27 years ago, not the last, and I have friends who are similar age to you and similar, though not unique, experiences as yours.I was also active in ACT-UP London, and 'OutRage' London during that time. And my experience of being very close to people who have suffered and died extends far beyond just London UK.

I did not 'attack' anyone for making assumptions, I merely commented on it. And it certainly did not make me 'angry' by any stretch of the imagination. And any 'attacks' on me, whether in this thread or any others don't make me 'angry' or particularly 'upset'. They have some background in the way in which some people handle fear and I hope for better for them in due course.

To suggest childishness is really more akin to you talking while looking in the mirror.

I would gather that all of us have been dealing with POZ-related issues since this bitch virus (HIV/AIDS) stepped onto the scene when many of us where "chicken." One of my docs here in Houston was treating AIDS in New York back in the 80's. When he told me "we can reverse these numbers, don't worry about this" there was so much excitement in his voice, I could feel it.

He was projecting hope and comfort to someone diagnosed recently (last May) with the experience of someone who has been dealing with this for a very long time. The point I am making is, I have dealt with POZ related issues since the 80's as well. I think all of us have each in his or her own way. Some more and/or less than others. I am thinking everyone here has lost a lot because of this bug it's how we react and see it that is different.

It seems kind of easy to take offense when discussing HIV/AIDS and related issues.She It seems to bring out raw bitterness quite often. What I am trying to understand is why and where this comes from and then I just have to look back at some of my own comments. She It fucks with my head, she it fucks with my body and she it is fucking with my life but at the end of the day...at least for now...I have her it fucked up.

I, for one, take offense with this nasty bitch virus that has invaded my cells, my DNA and is out to kill me and I try to remember that we are all fighting the same battle. Some can write eloquently, others not so much, but between the lines we are all in the same boat and I suspect trying to say the same things. Talking about it, venting, crying, getting pissed, celebrating good labs and talking about feeling good or feeling bad helps me wrap my brain around it.

Even though we will likely disagree on principle from time to time, I have not lost sight that I need this crowd and all of it's beauty and uhm even it's occasional nastiness and penchant for being offended.

**words crossed out but left for a greater understanding of something I just learned**

« Last Edit: February 21, 2011, 01:54:55 PM by drewm »

Logged

Diagnosed in May of 2010 with teh AIDS.

PCP Pneumonia . CD4 8 . VL 500,000

TRIUMEQ - VALTREX - FLUOXETINE - FENOFIBRATE - PRAVASTATIN - CIALIS

Numbers consistent since 12/2010 - VL has remained undetectable and CD4 is anywhere from 275-325

Drewm -- I want to suggest that if personification of HIV is something that makes it easier for you to deal, could you refrain from making the virus a female and referring to it/her as a bitch? and that she fucks with your head? and that she is nasty? If you have to personify it, why not make it a dude, a bastard, a twink, a top that topped you, a bottom that sucked you in, a sheister, a con man, a motherfucker, a super shit, a cocksucker, a brainsucker, a life parasite. Or better yet, how about calling HIV a python, a scorpion, a tsnunami, an earthquake, an earth-size meteorite, or any one of a hundred alternates? Or you could put it in the purple-top tube it deserves labelled as HIV, a virus with no malice aforethought---just a virus. Thank you.Em

But to suggest I can't understand what it is like to have been poz for 25 years+ is the kind of assumption that should simply not be made. I was first caring for someone just under 27 years ago, not the last, and I have friends who are similar age to you and similar, though not unique, experiences as yours.

Again, you see why I mostly stick to the LTS forum. This is one of the wildest things I have ever read posted in Living With....

Logged

"Remember my sentimental friend that a heart is not judged by how much you love, but by how much you are loved by others." - The Wizard of Oz

Drewm -- I want to suggest that if personification of HIV is something that makes it easier for you to deal, could you refrain from making the virus a female and referring to it/her as a bitch? and that she fucks with your head? and that she is nasty? If you have to personify it, why not make it a dude, a bastard, a twink, a top that topped you, a bottom that sucked you in, a sheister, a con man, a motherfucker, a super shit, a cocksucker, a brainsucker, a life parasite. Or better yet, how about calling HIV a python, a scorpion, a tsnunami, an earthquake, an earth-size meteorite, or any one of a hundred alternates? Or you could put it in the purple-top tube it deserves labelled as HIV, a virus with no malice aforethought---just a virus. Thank you.Em

Agreed. Point well made, no offense intended

Logged

Diagnosed in May of 2010 with teh AIDS.

PCP Pneumonia . CD4 8 . VL 500,000

TRIUMEQ - VALTREX - FLUOXETINE - FENOFIBRATE - PRAVASTATIN - CIALIS

Numbers consistent since 12/2010 - VL has remained undetectable and CD4 is anywhere from 275-325

Alan we all know what it's about. Don't worry it will pass, like a fart in a wind storm.

Alan, Dachs is right...Matt39 is not worth worrying about, don't waste your time with him, it's been 8 years for me and already some things are not quite right, but I know the one's I will be relying on for support and advise..and Matt39 is not one of them.

Alan, Dachs is right...Matt39 is not worth worrying about, don't waste your time with him, it's been 8 years for me and already some things are not quite right, but I know the one's I will be relying on for support and advise..and Matt39 is not one of them.

Drewm -- I want to suggest that if personification of HIV is something that makes it easier for you to deal, could you refrain from making the virus a female and referring to it/her as a bitch? and that she fucks with your head? and that she is nasty? If you have to personify it, why not make it a dude, a bastard, a twink, a top that topped you, a bottom that sucked you in, a sheister, a con man, a motherfucker, a super shit, a cocksucker, a brainsucker, a life parasite. Or better yet, how about calling HIV a python, a scorpion, a tsnunami, an earthquake, an earth-size meteorite, or any one of a hundred alternates? Or you could put it in the purple-top tube it deserves labelled as HIV, a virus with no malice aforethought---just a virus. Thank you.Em

What I know, is that it is impolite, to make assumptions about posts and state those assumptions as "fact". It is also impolite to slam folks who are merely trying to share their experiences, especially when they are solely their experiences. What I also know, is that until you start to show some respect, both for other members and different opinions, you will be unable to contribute anything of value, nor to learn a damn thing.