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Regular-Sized Poster

I just thinking that wouldn't it be interesting if they had made the new Green Lantern Baz a female instead? The way I see it, the GL books already have 5 main GL characters, namely Hal, Alan, John, Guy and Kyle so having a 6th male main GL seems redundant. While the GL books have had female GL characters like Jade, Aresia, Laira, Boodikka, etc, we have never really seen one that has really been the main focus of a solo book-even though Jade herself has been on several books like Justice League, Outsiders, Blood Pack, etc. Plus it would be interesting to see a female Arabic character in the GL books from my point of view. The only downside I could see is that many of the Jade fans would prefer she get her own series rather than this.

Regular-Sized Poster

I just thinking that wouldn't it be interesting if they had made the new Green Lantern Baz a female instead? The way I see it, the GL books already have 5 main GL characters, namely Hal, Alan, John, Guy and Kyle so having a 6th male main GL seems redundant. While the GL books have had female GL characters like Jade, Aresia, Laira, Boodikka, etc, we have never really seen one that has really been the main focus of a solo book-even though Jade herself has been on several books like Justice League, Outsiders, Blood Pack, etc. Plus it would be interesting to see a female Arabic character in the GL books from my point of view. The only downside I could see is that many of the Jade fans would prefer she get her own series rather than this.

DANG!

I would have given a GL ring to Cowgirl back in the day. Just to make Hal's love life that more complicated.

"I have my heroes, but no one knows their names"- Sons of the Desert

Strict31 wrote:I'm not sure that combining the nigh-uncontrollable power of LOLtron with the Nacireman is a good idea. Some years from now, when mankind is on the verge of extinction, we'll be able to look back and remember this moment, and say, "DANG."

Regular-Sized Poster

Keb wrote:It's a good idea in theory but how many comic book fans can relate to the struggles of an Arabic female?

But that's the catcher right there. Johns claims he wants Arabs to represented in the GL which led to him creating Baz, so why not create a female Arabic character seeing as how there are very few of them comicwise. And besides, female Arabs go through a lot of struggles in their countries due to male oppression and domination.

Regular-Sized Poster

Keb wrote:It's a good idea in theory but how many comic book fans can relate to the struggles of an Arabic female?

But that's the catcher right there. Johns claims he wants Arabs to represented in the GL which led to him creating Baz, so why not create a female Arabic character seeing as how there are very few of them comicwise. And besides, female Arabs go through a lot of struggles in their countries due to male oppression and domination.

Regular-Sized Poster

By the way, did Hal ever bang Jade or even try out of curiosity as he's already did Carol, Aresia, Cowgirl and so on? I'm not sure he ever did Laira before she died and Boodikka pretty much hates his guts so I doubt he ever got a chance to tap that.

By the way, did Hal ever bang Jade or even try out of curiosity as he's already did Carol, Aresia, Cowgirl and so on? I'm not sure he ever did Laira before she died and Boodikka pretty much hates his guts so I doubt he ever got a chance to tap that.

<( ' . ' )>

mrorangesoda wrote:How many comic fans can relate to the struggles of people that shoot lasers out of their eyes?

Many comic fans blow steam out their asses, so they can relate to superman having temperature controlled air coming out of a body hole.

draco x wrote:But that's the catcher right there. Johns claims he wants Arabs to represented in the GL which led to him creating Baz, so why not create a female Arabic character seeing as how there are very few of them comicwise. And besides, female Arabs go through a lot of struggles in their countries due to male oppression and domination.

That right there is what I'm taking about. While there are Arab women who feel oppressed, there are those who don't and trying to represent one side of that topic alienates the other who in turn make it an issue. If you want to see what I'm taking about look up the latest Femen protests in the news. I would think that a subsidiary of a major corporation might want to avoid press of that nature.

When Morrison created Dust in new x-men, he did very little with the character aside from show her as a young girl who refused to give up her beliefs to follow Xorn. When subsequent writers used her, they kept her in her niqab and there's a scene where one girl is biting her out for wearing a symbol of oppression and she explains the reason why she wears it. Is simple. After that it want really an issue since she remained a minor character. If they did something like that with a major character, there would be an uproar on one side or the other. Granted, Dust is Afghani but that idea of eastern oppression is what I'm using to make the point.

Baz is safe. He's Arab-American, and written by an Arab-American, so it is a pretty safe thing to bring him in to the fold. If people say he's a poor representation of Arabs, well he's an American, and an Arab-American at that so he essentially straddles that hyphenated east-west identity. There's not much room for misrepresentation when he is basically being channeled through the experience of Geoff Johns who is essentially drawing from that personal part of himself.

<( ' . ' )>

mrorangesoda wrote:How many comic fans can relate to the struggles of people that shoot lasers out of their eyes?

Many comic fans blow steam out their asses, so they can relate to superman having temperature controlled air coming out of a body hole.

draco x wrote:But that's the catcher right there. Johns claims he wants Arabs to represented in the GL which led to him creating Baz, so why not create a female Arabic character seeing as how there are very few of them comicwise. And besides, female Arabs go through a lot of struggles in their countries due to male oppression and domination.

That right there is what I'm taking about. While there are Arab women who feel oppressed, there are those who don't and trying to represent one side of that topic alienates the other who in turn make it an issue. If you want to see what I'm taking about look up the latest Femen protests in the news. I would think that a subsidiary of a major corporation might want to avoid press of that nature.

When Morrison created Dust in new x-men, he did very little with the character aside from show her as a young girl who refused to give up her beliefs to follow Xorn. When subsequent writers used her, they kept her in her niqab and there's a scene where one girl is biting her out for wearing a symbol of oppression and she explains the reason why she wears it. Is simple. After that it want really an issue since she remained a minor character. If they did something like that with a major character, there would be an uproar on one side or the other. Granted, Dust is Afghani but that idea of eastern oppression is what I'm using to make the point.

Baz is safe. He's Arab-American, and written by an Arab-American, so it is a pretty safe thing to bring him in to the fold. If people say he's a poor representation of Arabs, well he's an American, and an Arab-American at that so he essentially straddles that hyphenated east-west identity. There's not much room for misrepresentation when he is basically being channeled through the experience of Geoff Johns who is essentially drawing from that personal part of himself.

Regular-Sized Poster

Keb wrote:Many comic fans blow steam out their asses, so they can relate to superman having temperature controlled air coming out of a body hole.

That right there is what I'm taking about. While there are Arab women who feel oppressed, there are those who don't and trying to represent one side of that topic alienates the other who in turn make it an issue. If you want to see what I'm taking about look up the latest Femen protests in the news. I would think that a subsidiary of a major corporation might want to avoid press of that nature.

When Morrison created Dust in new x-men, he did very little with the character aside from show her as a young girl who refused to give up her beliefs to follow Xorn. When subsequent writers used her, they kept her in her niqab and there's a scene where one girl is biting her out for wearing a symbol of oppression and she explains the reason why she wears it. Is simple. After that it want really an issue since she remained a minor character. If they did something like that with a major character, there would be an uproar on one side or the other. Granted, Dust is Afghani but that idea of eastern oppression is what I'm using to make the point.

Baz is safe. He's Arab-American, and written by an Arab-American, so it is a pretty safe thing to bring him in to the fold. If people say he's a poor representation of Arabs, well he's an American, and an Arab-American at that so he essentially straddles that hyphenated east-west identity. There's not much room for misrepresentation when he is basically being channeled through the experience of Geoff Johns who is essentially drawing from that personal part of himself.

Fair points and all but the last point you brought up about the Arab American connection could be done through a female perspective rather than just another male GL who gets the focus in the GL books. I would love to see the perspective of how a female Arabic American character would see things if she became a GL-would she be speaking for the Eastern aspect of her culture or the Western side of it? And yes I do agree with the point that you're not going to please everybody but its a damned if you or damned if you don't case-type scenario. But like I said, this is what would make me care about Baz much more than I barely do as it stands.

Regular-Sized Poster

Keb wrote:Many comic fans blow steam out their asses, so they can relate to superman having temperature controlled air coming out of a body hole.

That right there is what I'm taking about. While there are Arab women who feel oppressed, there are those who don't and trying to represent one side of that topic alienates the other who in turn make it an issue. If you want to see what I'm taking about look up the latest Femen protests in the news. I would think that a subsidiary of a major corporation might want to avoid press of that nature.

When Morrison created Dust in new x-men, he did very little with the character aside from show her as a young girl who refused to give up her beliefs to follow Xorn. When subsequent writers used her, they kept her in her niqab and there's a scene where one girl is biting her out for wearing a symbol of oppression and she explains the reason why she wears it. Is simple. After that it want really an issue since she remained a minor character. If they did something like that with a major character, there would be an uproar on one side or the other. Granted, Dust is Afghani but that idea of eastern oppression is what I'm using to make the point.

Baz is safe. He's Arab-American, and written by an Arab-American, so it is a pretty safe thing to bring him in to the fold. If people say he's a poor representation of Arabs, well he's an American, and an Arab-American at that so he essentially straddles that hyphenated east-west identity. There's not much room for misrepresentation when he is basically being channeled through the experience of Geoff Johns who is essentially drawing from that personal part of himself.

Fair points and all but the last point you brought up about the Arab American connection could be done through a female perspective rather than just another male GL who gets the focus in the GL books. I would love to see the perspective of how a female Arabic American character would see things if she became a GL-would she be speaking for the Eastern aspect of her culture or the Western side of it? And yes I do agree with the point that you're not going to please everybody but its a damned if you or damned if you don't case-type scenario. But like I said, this is what would make me care about Baz much more than I barely do as it stands.

Not a Kardashian

Keb wrote:It's a good idea in theory but how many comic book fans can relate to the struggles of an Arabic female?

Answer: While you do show what defines her as an Arabic female and an individual, focus on what makes her a universal example of humanity.

As a society, we tend to dwell on what makes people from other cultures different from us. This is what keeps them defined as some unfamiliar, unknowable "Other", easy to ignore, easy to hate, easy to kill. Too often, we fail to see what makes them similar to us.

Think about it:

This hypothetical Arabic female character would need a job, or attend school... just like you and every other comic reader.

She would have family... just like you and every other comic reader.

She would have friends... just like you and every other comic reader (hopefully! ).

Admittedly, I have given this a lot of thought because I have ideas for a few pre-established Middle Eastern female characters.

I read something a long time ago that crystallized this notion for me. And it goes like this:

"...underneath the differences in custom and culture, the hearts of people all over the world are the same. Every person on this Earth wants love, acceptance, and happiness, even if the way he goes about searching for his happiness is different than that of his neighbor."

Not a Kardashian

Keb wrote:It's a good idea in theory but how many comic book fans can relate to the struggles of an Arabic female?

Answer: While you do show what defines her as an Arabic female and an individual, focus on what makes her a universal example of humanity.

As a society, we tend to dwell on what makes people from other cultures different from us. This is what keeps them defined as some unfamiliar, unknowable "Other", easy to ignore, easy to hate, easy to kill. Too often, we fail to see what makes them similar to us.

Think about it:

This hypothetical Arabic female character would need a job, or attend school... just like you and every other comic reader.

She would have family... just like you and every other comic reader.

She would have friends... just like you and every other comic reader (hopefully! ).

Admittedly, I have given this a lot of thought because I have ideas for a few pre-established Middle Eastern female characters.

I read something a long time ago that crystallized this notion for me. And it goes like this:

"...underneath the differences in custom and culture, the hearts of people all over the world are the same. Every person on this Earth wants love, acceptance, and happiness, even if the way he goes about searching for his happiness is different than that of his neighbor."

<( ' . ' )>

Herald wrote:Answer: While you do show what defines her as an Arabic female and an individual, focus on what makes her a universal example of humanity.

As a society, we tend to dwell on what makes people from other cultures different from us. This is what keeps them defined as some unfamiliar, unknowable "Other", easy to ignore, easy to hate, easy to kill. Too often, we fail to see what makes them similar to us.

Think about it:

This hypothetical Arabic female character would need a job, or attend school... just like you and every other comic reader.

She would have family... just like you and every other comic reader.

She would have friends... just like you and every other comic reader (hopefully! ).

Admittedly, I have given this a lot of thought because I have ideas for a few pre-established Middle Eastern female characters.

I read something a long time ago that crystallized this notion for me. And it goes like this:

"...underneath the differences in custom and culture, the hearts of people all over the world are the same. Every person on this Earth wants love, acceptance, and happiness, even if the way he goes about searching for his happiness is different than that of his neighbor."

Food for thought.

Yes, when you strip away the complex characteristics that make a comic book hero who he or she is, you get just that. But what defines a universal example of humanity? The differences, the ability that humans have to exist within their own spaces and within other spaces while remaining individual is what makes any character readable. If you have a group of characters all searching for the same thing, then the things that differentiate them are those qualities: social, cultural, political, spiritual, etc. Essentially those qualities that are considered become strong contributing factors on how that person becomes a universal concept of humanity.

There's been a huge shift in literary thinking from the mid-20th century to now that has taken place on the individual reconciliation of the fragmented identity. When I say "fragmented", I mean the elements that make a character's struggle significant are in pieces and often the protagonist contends within his or herself to reconcile social, cultural, political, spiritual elements in his or her life. It works well in literature. It would probably work well for comics as well if comics were being held entirely in literary regards.

Unfortunately comics, mainstream comics especially, are still a business. They have to connect with a large group of people and sell high numbers of they are not successful. When they fail to connect with the large, target audience, then the company writes it off. It's just not a successful idea to market.

<( ' . ' )>

Herald wrote:Answer: While you do show what defines her as an Arabic female and an individual, focus on what makes her a universal example of humanity.

As a society, we tend to dwell on what makes people from other cultures different from us. This is what keeps them defined as some unfamiliar, unknowable "Other", easy to ignore, easy to hate, easy to kill. Too often, we fail to see what makes them similar to us.

Think about it:

This hypothetical Arabic female character would need a job, or attend school... just like you and every other comic reader.

She would have family... just like you and every other comic reader.

She would have friends... just like you and every other comic reader (hopefully! ).

Admittedly, I have given this a lot of thought because I have ideas for a few pre-established Middle Eastern female characters.

I read something a long time ago that crystallized this notion for me. And it goes like this:

"...underneath the differences in custom and culture, the hearts of people all over the world are the same. Every person on this Earth wants love, acceptance, and happiness, even if the way he goes about searching for his happiness is different than that of his neighbor."

Food for thought.

Yes, when you strip away the complex characteristics that make a comic book hero who he or she is, you get just that. But what defines a universal example of humanity? The differences, the ability that humans have to exist within their own spaces and within other spaces while remaining individual is what makes any character readable. If you have a group of characters all searching for the same thing, then the things that differentiate them are those qualities: social, cultural, political, spiritual, etc. Essentially those qualities that are considered become strong contributing factors on how that person becomes a universal concept of humanity.

There's been a huge shift in literary thinking from the mid-20th century to now that has taken place on the individual reconciliation of the fragmented identity. When I say "fragmented", I mean the elements that make a character's struggle significant are in pieces and often the protagonist contends within his or herself to reconcile social, cultural, political, spiritual elements in his or her life. It works well in literature. It would probably work well for comics as well if comics were being held entirely in literary regards.

Unfortunately comics, mainstream comics especially, are still a business. They have to connect with a large group of people and sell high numbers of they are not successful. When they fail to connect with the large, target audience, then the company writes it off. It's just not a successful idea to market.

Outhouse Drafter

draco x wrote:By the way, did Hal ever bang Jade or even try out of curiosity as he's already did Carol, Aresia, Cowgirl and so on? I'm not sure he ever did Laira before she died and Boodikka pretty much hates his guts so I doubt he ever got a chance to tap that.

I'm pretty sure that Hal Jordan was dead most of the time that Jade would have been in a position to have any interaction with him and then she died shortly after he returned. Plus, Jade was more interested in dating and then cheating on Kyle Rayner while he was saving the universe and all.

Outhouse Drafter

draco x wrote:By the way, did Hal ever bang Jade or even try out of curiosity as he's already did Carol, Aresia, Cowgirl and so on? I'm not sure he ever did Laira before she died and Boodikka pretty much hates his guts so I doubt he ever got a chance to tap that.

I'm pretty sure that Hal Jordan was dead most of the time that Jade would have been in a position to have any interaction with him and then she died shortly after he returned. Plus, Jade was more interested in dating and then cheating on Kyle Rayner while he was saving the universe and all.

Not a Kardashian

Keb wrote:Yes, when you strip away the complex characteristics that make a comic book hero who he or she is, you get just that. But what defines a universal example of humanity? The differences, the ability that humans have to exist within their own spaces and within other spaces while remaining individual is what makes any character readable. If you have a group of characters all searching for the same thing, then the things that differentiate them are those qualities: social, cultural, political, spiritual, etc. Essentially those qualities that are considered become strong contributing factors on how that person becomes a universal concept of humanity.

No, those qualities are part of what define them as individuals. Even you say that they are "things that differentiate them"; therefore, they are not universal qualities.

There's been a huge shift in literary thinking from the mid-20th century to now that has taken place on the individual reconciliation of the fragmented identity. When I say "fragmented", I mean the elements that make a character's struggle significant are in pieces and often the protagonist contends within his or herself to reconcile social, cultural, political, spiritual elements in his or her life. It works well in literature. It would probably work well for comics as well if comics were being held entirely in literary regards.

Unfortunately comics, mainstream comics especially, are still a business. They have to connect with a large group of people and sell high numbers of they are not successful. When they fail to connect with the large, target audience, then the company writes it off. It's just not a successful idea to market.

If this is "not a successful idea to market", then why should they bother creating anything other than middle-class straight white 30+-year-old guys?? That is their target audience. Heck, why did they bother de-aging the characters for the DCnU?? After all, many of the characters were already the correct mid-30s age for their audience.

Why create their BFF Nu Beetle, the far-less-than-30-year-old Hispanic, and back him to the point of giving him a series TWICE??

Why go through all the trouble to borrow Static from Milestone??(Dwayne McDuffie said they wasted HIS time; who knew at the time that they wasted theirs, as well??)

And man, they really should have dumped that part-Chinese, part-Arabic Robin, Damien, long before last month! After all, according to you, there's NO way he caught on with many of the Bat-fans!

Believe it or not, such diversity characters CAN connect with the white target audience. John Stewart's stint in the animated Justice League and JLU managed to make HIM the "One, True Green Lantern" to many non-comic readers. The aforementioned Static managed to get FOUR seasons of Static Shock, and would have gotten MORE if the toy companies didn't think like you, and panicked at the thought of marketing a toy of a black character to an audience that largely isn't black. And that idiocy happened even though the audience already proved that they love the character!

The bottom line is that you don't know that non-white, non-straight characters won't connect with a large audience until you TRY. One thing that I can actually compliment Dan and the Gang on is that they do give "diversity" characters a shot. The problem is, they've handled them in the Typical Slipshod DiDio-era Manner... and that's why the major key to using non-white characters is that they must be handled WELL.

Not a Kardashian

Keb wrote:Yes, when you strip away the complex characteristics that make a comic book hero who he or she is, you get just that. But what defines a universal example of humanity? The differences, the ability that humans have to exist within their own spaces and within other spaces while remaining individual is what makes any character readable. If you have a group of characters all searching for the same thing, then the things that differentiate them are those qualities: social, cultural, political, spiritual, etc. Essentially those qualities that are considered become strong contributing factors on how that person becomes a universal concept of humanity.

No, those qualities are part of what define them as individuals. Even you say that they are "things that differentiate them"; therefore, they are not universal qualities.

There's been a huge shift in literary thinking from the mid-20th century to now that has taken place on the individual reconciliation of the fragmented identity. When I say "fragmented", I mean the elements that make a character's struggle significant are in pieces and often the protagonist contends within his or herself to reconcile social, cultural, political, spiritual elements in his or her life. It works well in literature. It would probably work well for comics as well if comics were being held entirely in literary regards.

Unfortunately comics, mainstream comics especially, are still a business. They have to connect with a large group of people and sell high numbers of they are not successful. When they fail to connect with the large, target audience, then the company writes it off. It's just not a successful idea to market.

If this is "not a successful idea to market", then why should they bother creating anything other than middle-class straight white 30+-year-old guys?? That is their target audience. Heck, why did they bother de-aging the characters for the DCnU?? After all, many of the characters were already the correct mid-30s age for their audience.

Why create their BFF Nu Beetle, the far-less-than-30-year-old Hispanic, and back him to the point of giving him a series TWICE??

Why go through all the trouble to borrow Static from Milestone??(Dwayne McDuffie said they wasted HIS time; who knew at the time that they wasted theirs, as well??)

And man, they really should have dumped that part-Chinese, part-Arabic Robin, Damien, long before last month! After all, according to you, there's NO way he caught on with many of the Bat-fans!

Believe it or not, such diversity characters CAN connect with the white target audience. John Stewart's stint in the animated Justice League and JLU managed to make HIM the "One, True Green Lantern" to many non-comic readers. The aforementioned Static managed to get FOUR seasons of Static Shock, and would have gotten MORE if the toy companies didn't think like you, and panicked at the thought of marketing a toy of a black character to an audience that largely isn't black. And that idiocy happened even though the audience already proved that they love the character!

The bottom line is that you don't know that non-white, non-straight characters won't connect with a large audience until you TRY. One thing that I can actually compliment Dan and the Gang on is that they do give "diversity" characters a shot. The problem is, they've handled them in the Typical Slipshod DiDio-era Manner... and that's why the major key to using non-white characters is that they must be handled WELL.