Explain to me how Homosexuals are "born that way".

Originally posted by BloodSister
Of corse they are born gay! how can u explain their very camp voices, the way they act, and also what they like for example, fashion and men. you
cant force yourself to be like that!

Well, is it not true that all guys can easily switch into that voice and those mannerisms? It's second nature to me and apparently other guys I've
seen become instant "gays".

they are born that way, it is not a choice. As a man get close to another man that is not a relative and see how long you can stay close. You would
feel very uncomfortable the smell alone would irritate you..

if it was a choice many would not hide it or end their life due to it. they would just NOT DO IT.

You may be appalled to find that homosexual activity is more common among heterosexuals than you have been led to believe. Some studies have put this
number at as much as 25% of people have had some kind of homosexual experience.

I find that you can relate people who are actively against homosexual activity to people who are heavily against smoking, in most cases the people who
are most virulently against smoking were once smokers themselves and perhaps it is the temptation of repeating that behavior that causes them to so
extremely opposing smoking as an activity and smokers as people.

Of course all that information is from first hand experience and while other's experience may differ, I stand by my personal observations.

Whether heterosexuals engage in homosexual acts out of curiosity, preference or convenience I am not sure, but it is certainly not an unheard of
situation.

Originally posted by Lionhearte
So, LGBTs and LGBT defenders, please answer this for me - where does the gene come from that makes a homosexual "born that way"?

No problem. Genetics is an incredibly complex subject and, unfortunately, our schools do a TERRIBLE job of teaching it to students who are not
actually going into the biological or genetic sciences.

In a nutshell, here are the "short" answers to your questions.

1. Not ALL genetic traits are hereditary.

2. ALL genetic traits, whether hereditary or otherwise and irrespective of whether or not they are dominant or recessive can be describe as
probability functions.

3. Thus, ANY given child born of ANY two parents MIGHT exhibit a genetic trait NOT FOUND in any known ancestors, simply by virtue of combinatorics
and randomness. The only difference being in the overall LIKELIHOOD or PROBABILITY of that trait expressing itself.

We know from the archeological record that ALL complex societies which have had some form of recorded history have ALL had statistically significant
parts of their population which were either homosexual or bisexual, as it is referenced frequently in their writings, depicted in artwork, described
in their legends and myths, and preserved in their cultural rituals.

However, lacking a scientifically accurate census from ancient times we don't know PRECISELY what percentage of each civilization would be classified
this way. Likewise, we don't currently have an accurate means and/or mathematical formulae which has been developed to describe how society and
culture either INCREASED or DECREASED this tendency apart from what one might think the natural biological norm might be. However...here is what we
DO know.

1. Most modern, industrialized "western-style" countries seem to have a homosexual population that seems to hover pretty consistently at around
10%. These countries would include those found in the America's, Europe, Australia/New Zealand and Japan. Yes...Japan is in the "east" however
they live in a largely "westernized" culture of representative government, capitalism, etc. For our purposes here...let's refer to this as the
"Biological Constant" since it is reflective of the world we know around us and most of us would probably agree that in the western world society at
least permits these things. (i.e. There still might be a STIGMA against it, as well as far too many people who are killed by being the victims of
hate crimes....however the western world doesn't engage in the institutional punishment of the behavior. In short, while I can only imagine it's no
walk in the park to be gay...the western world doesn't burn these people at the stake or stone them to death as a matter of official practice).

2. In many of the cultures around the Mediterranean homosexuality and bisexuality were positively RAMPANT. I am guessing I hardly need to explain
this since I surmise that pretty much everyone is aware that the Romans had all different kinds of orgies geared to a host of differing fetishes for
both amusement as well as ritual significance. Likewise, it's no accident that the words "lesbian" and "sapphic" come from the poetry of Sappho
from the isle of Lesbos...especially considering her favorite subject matter.

2. CERTAIN cultures in the ancient Mediterranean may have had statistics which were likely pushed higher do to societal pressures. For example, the
Spartans engaged in heterosexual sex as the EXCEPTION, not the rule. It is one of the world's great ironies that the most highly trained and elite
heavy infantry fighting force the world has ever seen engaged in hetero-sex almost exclusively for procreation...especially when one looks at all the
senseless "gays in the military" drama these days. This was largely as a by-product of the Laconic code which required that the highly militarized
society was to live in segration from the opposite sex in barrack-like conditions.

4. Unsurprisingly, homosexual and/or bisexual activity increases universally across race, culture, religion, etc when the sexes live in segregated
environments. Indeed, even the more gifted of males must be less than 9" away from a female in order begin engaging in intercourse.

Thus, if culture dictates that males and females must separated by a distance greater than that, heterosexual intercourse becomes simply impossible.
This is the precise reason why the Catholic church has so many problems with the priests and alter boys, why "prison" and "ass rape" are virtually
synonyms, and why there are hundreds...if not THOUSANDS of surviving letters from the 1800's of cowboys writing sexually explicit love letters to one
another. Turns out...there weren't a whole lot women on that lonely high plain. LOL.

Lastly, I should mention that I'm not a "defender" of the LGBT or gay lifestyle...mostly because there is nothing to "defend"

You may be appalled to find that homosexual activity is more common among heterosexuals than you have been led to believe. Some studies have put this
number at as much as 25% of people have had some kind of homosexual experience.

I find that you can relate people who are actively against homosexual activity to people who are heavily against smoking, in most cases the people who
are most virulently against smoking were once smokers themselves and perhaps it is the temptation of repeating that behavior that causes them to so
extremely opposing smoking as an activity and smokers as people.

Of course all that information is from first hand experience and while other's experience may differ, I stand by my personal observations.

Whether heterosexuals engage in homosexual acts out of curiosity, preference or convenience I am not sure, but it is certainly not an unheard of
situation.

No...it's not "unheard of at all". In fact...it's a matter of historical fact and record. See my previous post for details.

I really cannot understand why people have such an issue with people behaving just as they have ALWAYS behaved. I'm heterosexual...but it never
ceases to amaze me how people think homosexuality or bisexuality are "new" things or might not somehow be "natural".

There hasn't been a civilization which has ever existed which didn't have homosexuals or bisexuals. Why are we surprised that they are still
around?

I'm not going to read through nearly 50 pages so i'll just stick with one simple comment: How can you explain your being born straight? You can't,
it just happened that way.

People cannot simultaneously "not hate" gay people but also take a moral stance against it. That will be interpreted as hate by many, and will
inflict emotional pain upon some gay people. So don't tell me that is not hate.

I think it's too narrow to dismiss either possibility when discussing homosexuality. I think there is almost certainly a genetic component to
homosexuality. On the other hand, homosexuality can also be a culturally accepted and encouraged activity depending upon the society. Determining
which "cause" is operational seems to be pretty pointless to me. If people want to have relationships with same sex partners, I don't feel we
should be concerned about that behavior, it's up to them.

Now the issue of gay marriage and the social issues that follow, well, those are completely different and I won't address them. I'm just saying that
the factors determining sexuality are probably manifold.

LOL wut?? I'm quite sure that, anatomically speaking, there are few if any differences between heterosexuals and homosexuals. If there are
differences, as some studies have suggested, they are minor statistical differences such as the ratio of the length of fingers. To my knowledge, all
humans are born with tonsils, though many people have them removed due to increased instances of respiratory and sinus infections. The removal of
tonsils used to much more common than it is today, but tonsillectomies are still performed in certain cases and are not what you'd call unusual.
Thanks for the laugh though!

And how is that nonsense? Look at the rise in the number of homosexuals in modern times compared to last century, and then look at the way society has
changed with regards to what kids can do etc.

How can you not see that correlation?

excuse me but theres no "rise" of homosexuality..homosexuality has been present since the dawn of mankind ( and in Nature forever) and depending on
the ruling mindset, whether its oppressive about it or not is what allows visibility or not in society..for instance, before the rise of the Abrahamic
religions, homosexuality wasnt either that much of an issue, or wasnt an issue at all...

The only reason homosexuality appears to have risen is because people in general don't have to fear being stoned, beheaded or burned at the stake (not
in most counteries anyway) so they don't need to keep it so hidden. It has always been there.

As for being born that way. I can only tell you my story, though will be brief. I have 3 siblings, 1 sister and 2 brothers and I have had the exact
same upbringing. Same location and so on.

I have know I was "different" since the age I could attend nursery...maybe I'd be 5? Not really sure. I can actually remember this experience well, I
was aware "boys should like girls"so I never mentioned anything. I found a boy in my school very cute and endearing, I remember thinking "he is like
my teddy bear(all I could aliken the experience ti at that age)" cause both have round cute faces. So at that early age I experienced a form of
attraction, and I realised as well I wasn't a boy that "liked to take charge", I often was fine being submissive and didn't feel the need to be
"Boyish". Years passed I grew up and over time obviously realised I was gay and felt more emotionally and physically safe and prefered the love of a
man.

They aren't born this way, they are conditioned this way. Most gay men turn gay because they are either unattractive to women or they are conditioned
at an early age to shy away from women. This then turns them gay as they need a sexual outlet. Simple as that.

I know plenty of attractive gay men, to say it's about sex is absurd, if it was as you described then we wouldn't have the issue of gay marriage,
why would 2 people using eachother for sex pursue marriage?

Sexual outlet? Ha...I am actually a very unsexual person. I could be in a relationship and not bother with sex easily, the only reason Id bother is
for my partner's sake cause most people are in to the whole sex thing. For me, as a gay person, it is much more about emotion.

I know of a gay guy that dresses as a female and who is in a relationship with a lesbian female. Love isn't about sexuality. It isn't all as clean cut
and black and white as people like to think.

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