I don't care who they have played and who they have not played, they look pretty darn tough. The Pats sure have not played world beaters and they have looked pretty bad. We are lucky to have the wins we have. Things are different in the playoffs, you play very good teams in the playoffs. The Broncos look more ready and have more power to face the better teams then the Pats have and look right now.

The Broncos are better this year then last year and if I recall I remember watching the Broncos game and being on the forum and this place was full of people cheering for the Ravens to win so the Pats didn't have to face the Broncos. If we make it to the AFCC this season it will be in Denver. As of right now, we aren't even close to beating them in Denver.

Right now Denver is a wild card and the Pats are division winners. The game would be at Foxboro :)

Umm, the world does hate the Pats, Underpants. We know all about it. New rules, plays called in OT for the new rules to help teams in the division win, etc.

We know all about it.

Wouldn't have happened if the genius understood the new rules.

Was he in Costa Rica or Croatia, on vacation, when they went over them?

He understood them just fine. That rule is like Holding. If the refs never call it, you'd never think it's illegal.

The genius is a genius as he is the greatest coach and GM of all time for a reason. The NFL corrborated BB's take on it today. It was nice to see.

The Jets committed the same penalty and it was not called. Disturbing.

You mocking BB as a Pats fan means you are a troll or not a Pats fan. I don't know any Pats fan who mocks Bill Belichick.

So - he knew the rule and took a calculated risk and lost.

I did hear Belibitch cry about the Jets committing the same penalty, but I have yet to have seen the evidence. No doubt you have it, so put it up for us.

Regardless, I am wondering if this good old fashioned coaching by Rex. I wonder if Belichick has done this before, since as Rusty said, he knows the rule but it is never called. And I wonder if Rex found it on tape and alerted the refs to it. If that took place then a tip of the hat goes to Rex. And Belichick should have known better...wait...he does know better. He's the smartest guy in the room. He knows everything. And he knows that pushing is against the rules, but he also knows the refs should not call it on the pats because he is the coach of the pats and he is the smartest guy in the room.

Yeah, but do you really think the Pats have an offense that can win a SB at this point? I don't. I'm not sure they will at all this season. To many new WR's. Instead of rebuilding the whole WR group at one time, it needs to be done over a period of time. While the Pats should be fine tuning the offense at this point they are still trying to find out who can play in it. Right now there is just isn't any consistency and it is still a mess to be honest.

I don't think Manning is playing for records, that's their offense, my gosh why wouldn't they be throwing a lot with the weapons they have. It would be injustice if they didn't and wasted all those WR's, Plus they have a run game too. It's not like they are only passing. They have some games with 140 and 160 rush yards. I believe their average rushing per game is 110 yards, and the Pats average rushing is 122 yards per game. Not much difference there. So I believe that isn't a fair statement that you made.

We have not beat any world beater teams either with the exception of the Saints. We lost to a good Bengals team but also to a bad Jet's team for crying out loud. Their only loss was a pretty darn good Colts team. Their schedule going forward is more difficult then ours, thank goodness.

Don't fool yourself or try and fool people here, the Patriots are a long ways away from being a SB Championship team. A long ways. The Broncos look so much better then the Patriots and look really, really good. You would have to be a complete homer like Rusty to think otherwise.

No, they don't have an offense that can win it all right now. Good thing it is October and they still have the rest of the season and the BYE week to work on it.

Really? Throwing a deep ball to Thomas late in the fourth quarter with Washington's starting QB pulled and up by multiple scores is just using your weapons? If Brady did that the media would be calling for his head. Instead, Manning threw the ball so he is just a really good player trying to keep a drive alive.

The Patriots beat a team that is over .500. The Broncos haven'tm i don't think I'm fooling anyone, just pointing out facts. They have played completely inept teams up to this point. They beat the Saints and hung with the Bengals. When the Pats get their offense up to speed with all the players coming back from injury and Talib is healthy watch out. When the Pats have the 5th lowest Defensive points per game and the Broncos have the 28th, I would be scared to get into a shootout against the Pats with a healthy Gronk, Amendola, Vereen, and a more experienced Dobson and Thompkins. Oh yeah, that Ridley guy isn't thet bad either.

Yeah, but do you really think the Pats have an offense that can win a SB at this point? I don't. I'm not sure they will at all this season. To many new WR's. Instead of rebuilding the whole WR group at one time, it needs to be done over a period of time. While the Pats should be fine tuning the offense at this point they are still trying to find out who can play in it. Right now there is just isn't any consistency and it is still a mess to be honest.

I don't think Manning is playing for records, that's their offense, my gosh why wouldn't they be throwing a lot with the weapons they have. It would be injustice if they didn't and wasted all those WR's, Plus they have a run game too. It's not like they are only passing. They have some games with 140 and 160 rush yards. I believe their average rushing per game is 110 yards, and the Pats average rushing is 122 yards per game. Not much difference there. So I believe that isn't a fair statement that you made.

We have not beat any world beater teams either with the exception of the Saints. We lost to a good Bengals team but also to a bad Jet's team for crying out loud. Their only loss was a pretty darn good Colts team. Their schedule going forward is more difficult then ours, thank goodness.

Don't fool yourself or try and fool people here, the Patriots are a long ways away from being a SB Championship team. A long ways. The Broncos look so much better then the Patriots and look really, really good. You would have to be a complete homer like Rusty to think otherwise.

No, they don't have an offense that can win it all right now. Good thing it is October and they still have the rest of the season and the BYE week to work on it.

Really? Throwing a deep ball to Thomas late in the fourth quarter with Washington's starting QB pulled and up by multiple scores is just using your weapons? If Brady did that the media would be calling for his head. Instead, Manning threw the ball so he is just a really good player trying to keep a drive alive.

The Patriots beat a team that is over .500. The Broncos haven'tm i don't think I'm fooling anyone, just pointing out facts. They have played completely inept teams up to this point. They beat the Saints and hung with the Bengals. When the Pats get their offense up to speed with all the players coming back from injury and Talib is healthy watch out. When the Pats have the 5th lowest Defensive points per game and the Broncos have the 28th, I would be scared to get into a shootout against the Pats with a healthy Gronk, Amendola, Vereen, and a more experienced Dobson and Thompkins. Oh yeah, that Ridley guy isn't thet bad either.

The paranoia by a few here is unbelieveable. Wow. In 2 of the past 3 weeks, Denver has given up 39 and 48 points and in the other week they gave up 19 points to the worst scoring offense in the NFL who nearly doubled their average offensive output. You said it yourself - Denver's defense is bad.

How was Manning to know that Griffith wasn't coming back? There were 5 minutes to go in the game and it was 3rd and 10.

For a few here, if ESPN said the pats played a good game, they'd consider it a slight and anti-patriot because ESPN did not say NE played a GREAT game.

I did hear Belibitch cry about the Jets committing the same penalty, but I have yet to have seen the evidence. No doubt you have it, so put it up for us.

The NFL actually came out and said that the Jets should have been called for the same penalty. LMAO. Why are you even here troll? Nobody here cares about your stupid team anymore. Polian and Forehead are gone.

UD, usually when a team is up by multiple scores they run the ball and knock around 40 seconds off the clock. On third and long maybe they should have been more concerned about the clock when blowing out another team. People would be in the streets with torches and pitchforks if Brady threw that ball. You must really be in love with the guy not to notice the fetish the media has for Manning.

I did hear Belibitch cry about the Jets committing the same penalty, but I have yet to have seen the evidence. No doubt you have it, so put it up for us.

The NFL actually came out and said that the Jets should have been called for the same penalty. LMAO. Why are you even here troll? Nobody here cares about your stupid team anymore. Polian and Forehead are gone.

So be it. If the refs were informed that the pats were doing it, good for them. If as Rusty has said, belichick knew the rules, then he took a chance and lost. life isn't always fair - you win some and you lose some.

UD, usually when a team is up by multiple scores they run the ball and knock around 40 seconds off the clock. On third and long maybe they should have been more concerned about the clock when blowing out another team. People would be in the streets with torches and pitchforks if Brady threw that ball. You must really be in love with the guy not to notice the fetish the media has for Manning.

and they ran the first 2 plays and were at 3rd and 10. When the defense stinks - as you've noted - the offense must put the team up by an insurmountable score. Manning knows this as he brought the colts back from a 21 point deficit with 5 minutes to go in the game.

I know the media loves Manning. Just as it loves Brady - although that's changing this year. And only a few of you believe that the media, in general, would be at Brady's throat if he threw that ball. If you got one article to say such a thing you would claim everyone believes it.

What I don't understand is why you don't see the logic from your own facts. Denver's defense stinks. When Brady was running up scores, he had a top 5 defense. Manning's Broncos currently are 26th in pts per game.

UD, usually when a team is up by multiple scores they run the ball and knock around 40 seconds off the clock. On third and long maybe they should have been more concerned about the clock when blowing out another team. People would be in the streets with torches and pitchforks if Brady threw that ball. You must really be in love with the guy not to notice the fetish the media has for Manning.

and they ran the first 2 plays and were at 3rd and 10. When the defense stinks - as you've noted - the offense must put the team up by an insurmountable score. Manning knows this as he brought the colts back from a 21 point deficit with 5 minutes to go in the game.

I know the media loves Manning. Just as it loves Brady - although that's changing this year. And only a few of you believe that the media, in general, would be at Brady's throat if he threw that ball. If you got one article to say such a thing you would claim everyone believes it.

What I don't understand is why you don't see the logic from your own facts. Denver's defense stinks. When Brady was running up scores, he had a top 5 defense. Manning's Broncos currently are 26th in pts per game.

They were up by a ton with the game almost over. Running the ball would leave them about four minutes to score multiple TDs instead of five minutes. Idk, just a basic situational decision in my mind.

UD, usually when a team is up by multiple scores they run the ball and knock around 40 seconds off the clock. On third and long maybe they should have been more concerned about the clock when blowing out another team. People would be in the streets with torches and pitchforks if Brady threw that ball. You must really be in love with the guy not to notice the fetish the media has for Manning.

Our Pats did a nice job in 2007 with running up scores. It's the NFL, you play your game to the end. I don't care if up by 50, you play your game. You are out there not only playing to win but you are continuing to work on things, especially this day and age when the practicing rules are so different. They are all in this season. They are doing everything they can to take advantage of this time and the players they have. Go out, play their game, get better, fine tune the machine for the playoffs and stick to the goal. Nothing more, nothing less.

Like I said earlier, it's not like all they are doing is passing, they have a run game too. They are averaging slightly less then the Pats in rushing yards per game.

But again I ask, have you watched all their games this season or are you going off highlights and what you read and hear on tv about their games?

UD, usually when a team is up by multiple scores they run the ball and knock around 40 seconds off the clock. On third and long maybe they should have been more concerned about the clock when blowing out another team. People would be in the streets with torches and pitchforks if Brady threw that ball. You must really be in love with the guy not to notice the fetish the media has for Manning.

and they ran the first 2 plays and were at 3rd and 10. When the defense stinks - as you've noted - the offense must put the team up by an insurmountable score. Manning knows this as he brought the colts back from a 21 point deficit with 5 minutes to go in the game.

I know the media loves Manning. Just as it loves Brady - although that's changing this year. And only a few of you believe that the media, in general, would be at Brady's throat if he threw that ball. If you got one article to say such a thing you would claim everyone believes it.

What I don't understand is why you don't see the logic from your own facts. Denver's defense stinks. When Brady was running up scores, he had a top 5 defense. Manning's Broncos currently are 26th in pts per game.

They were up by a ton with the game almost over. Running the ball would leave them about four minutes to score multiple TDs instead of five minutes. Idk, just a basic situational decision in my mind.

again - they were up by 17 with just under 5 min to go. Manning, in 2003, brought the colts back from 21 down with 5 minutes to go. 17 pts is significantly easier given the need for a FG instead of a TD.

I see where you are coming from TFB, but we have seen this before. The Pats beat the "Greatest Show on Turf" Rams with a good defense and fair offense, and the Giants beat the Pats with a solid defense and fair offense. Happened again last year against Baltimore. Manning is historically bad in the post-season, and his defense is ranked 28th while playing some of the worst offenses in the league.

I also think that it means a lot that they lost to the one team they faced that is above .500.

At least the Patriots stepped up to the challenge against the Saints. While Manning is throwing picks trying to get his TD records, BB has the Pats doing everything they can to figure out how to win as a team. When all is said and done I would rather have the team who overcame obstacles to get where they are. You know, like 2001-2004.

Yeah, but do you really think the Pats have an offense that can win a SB at this point? I don't. I'm not sure they will at all this season. To many new WR's. Instead of rebuilding the whole WR group at one time, it needs to be done over a period of time. While the Pats should be fine tuning the offense at this point they are still trying to find out who can play in it. Right now there is just isn't any consistency and it is still a mess to be honest.

I don't think Manning is playing for records, that's their offense, my gosh why wouldn't they be throwing a lot with the weapons they have. It would be injustice if they didn't and wasted all those WR's, Plus they have a run game too. It's not like they are only passing. They have some games with 140 and 160 rush yards. I believe their average rushing per game is 110 yards, and the Pats average rushing is 122 yards per game. Not much difference there. So I believe that isn't a fair statement that you made.

We have not beat any world beater teams either with the exception of the Saints. We lost to a good Bengals team but also to a bad Jet's team for crying out loud. Their only loss was a pretty darn good Colts team. Their schedule going forward is more difficult then ours, thank goodness.

Don't fool yourself or try and fool people here, the Patriots are a long ways away from being a SB Championship team. A long ways. The Broncos look so much better then the Patriots and look really, really good. You would have to be a complete homer like Rusty to think otherwise.

I just thought I would let you know the Pats haven't had an offense that could win the Superbowl since 2004. The offensive players they have now are a heck of a lot more talented than the 2004 bunch. So, don't fool yourself into believing they can't win it all this year.

UD, usually when a team is up by multiple scores they run the ball and knock around 40 seconds off the clock. On third and long maybe they should have been more concerned about the clock when blowing out another team. People would be in the streets with torches and pitchforks if Brady threw that ball. You must really be in love with the guy not to notice the fetish the media has for Manning.

and they ran the first 2 plays and were at 3rd and 10. When the defense stinks - as you've noted - the offense must put the team up by an insurmountable score. Manning knows this as he brought the colts back from a 21 point deficit with 5 minutes to go in the game.

I know the media loves Manning. Just as it loves Brady - although that's changing this year. And only a few of you believe that the media, in general, would be at Brady's throat if he threw that ball. If you got one article to say such a thing you would claim everyone believes it.

What I don't understand is why you don't see the logic from your own facts. Denver's defense stinks. When Brady was running up scores, he had a top 5 defense. Manning's Broncos currently are 26th in pts per game.

They were up by a ton with the game almost over. Running the ball would leave them about four minutes to score multiple TDs instead of five minutes. Idk, just a basic situational decision in my mind.

again - they were up by 17 with just under 5 min to go. Manning, in 2003, brought the colts back from 21 down with 5 minutes to go. 17 pts is significantly easier given the need for a FG instead of a TD.

Again - Running the ball would have given the Redskins the ball with four minutes to go and down three scores. 40 seconds is an eternity in football, and scoring 17 points in four minutes is basically unheard of. Passing is also much more risky, and it showed with the pick. In that situation you almost always run the ball and kill the clock. When you have either gimpy RGIII or Cousins throwing the ball you trust your defense in that situation as bad as they have been.

I just thought I would let you know the Pats haven't had an offense that could win the Superbowl since 2004. The offensive players they have now are a heck of a lot more talented than the 2004 bunch. So, don't fool yourself into believing they can't win it all this year.

Well they had an offense that could win in 2007 and 2011 but did they win? No! Unfortunately, the defense allowed final drives of 83 and 88 yards to lose those games but I digress.

Is this offense more talented then the 2007 and 2011 teams? No way. I'm not saying Pats have zero talent on this team, we do have some, but the question is... do we have enough? I don't think we do. They can't get everyone on the field together long enough to get any type of consistency going. Other teams have been doing so for many games now. That is huge.

Heck, I don't even know who are going to be the receivers and rb's at this point. Is Dobson playing over Thomkins now? It's now week 9 and there are a lot of questions left to be answered on offense.

The problem with playing them is that you need to be playing a perfect game on offens and defense. Redskins defense plkayed very well and got 14 points off Mannings turnovers. Yet they just easily came back and dropped 45! They had 4 turnovers and still scored 45! That is incredible.

Colts played a great game defensively and still gave up 30+ at home. Cowboys played an incredible offensively, scored 50+ and still lost.

Wes Welker made that offense what it is this year. Without him they are easily 5-3 and just another good team in AFC. He is carrying them for entire games and it is sickening to watch as a Pats fan.

I know it's been said 1000 times already, but I cannot believe how a brilliant coach like BB could be incompetent enough to let that happen. Not only to not sign him but also do so knowing he might go to the broncos. It is simply inexcusable. And what did we get? A scrub like Amendola who cannot stay healthy? Where has he been this year? Pats have played half a season and he's only had one decent game, and that was the game he got hurt in. He looks lost out there, cannot get open and simply does not make any plays. Everyone can see that.

What a stupid stupid decision by Belichick. If Broncos win the trophy, they can thank BB for it.

The problem with playing them is that you need to be playing a perfect game on offens and defense. Redskins defense plkayed very well and got 14 points off Mannings turnovers. Yet they just easily came back and dropped 45! They had 4 turnovers and still scored 45! That is incredible.

Colts played a great game defensively and still gave up 30+ at home. Cowboys played an incredible offensively, scored 50+ and still lost.

Wes Welker made that offense what it is this year. Without him they are easily 5-3 and just another good team in AFC. He is carrying them for entire games and it is sickening to watch as a Pats fan.

I know it's been said 1000 times already, but I cannot believe how a brilliant coach like BB could be incompetent enough to let that happen. Not only to not sign him but also do so knowing he might go to the broncos. It is simply inexcusable. And what did we get? A scrub like Amendola who cannot stay healthy? Where has he been this year? Pats have played half a season and he's only had one decent game, and that was the game he got hurt in. He looks lost out there, cannot get open and simply does not make any plays. Everyone can see that.

What a stupid stupid decision by Belichick. If Broncos win the trophy, they can thank BB for it.