I'm just curious about this, there seem to be many types of gladiators.

Did they all just fight in a single role, or where there who would fight in multible roles? I can see how that could keep it interesting for the crowd and allow a good gladiator to be useable in more matches.

Also, how did this work for free gladiators? Could they choose themselves what to specialise in?

It seems quite difficult to find more than generic information about the Chinese millitairy. Clearly they always had a large millitairy, but I cant really find much mention of special elite forces within it.

Surely they must have had them? I'd like to learn more about that but would need names of such forces so I'd know what to look for online.

]]>Vestigia VetustatisInhuman Onehttp://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?695771-Chinese-millitairy-what-kind-of-elite-forces-did-they-fieldhttp://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?695755-I-don-t-understand-our-understanding-of-History-The-numbers-logistics-just-never-add-up&goto=newpost
Sat, 01 Aug 2015 02:21:02 GMTSomething about the logistics, number of forces present, and the number of...

Something about the logistics, number of forces present, and the number of casualties has never made sense to me.

For example you have the Battle of Cartagena (461AD). The Romans are building a fleet to defeat the Vandal Kingdom. They have 40 ship with another half a dozen being built. "Oh my God! That's a lot of ships, we better destroy them before they build too large a navy." And the Vandals field 17 ships vs the Romans 40.

Then there's the Battle of Cap Bon, a mere 6 years later. Where the Romans are quoted as having (10,000) TEN THOUSAND, ships, and historians say, no, no...it's more likeley 1113. One thousand. A THOUSAND.

The Vandal fleet had a mere 17 just six years earlier, and the Romans were only managing about six a year, so the Vandals in six years end up having a fleet that could contend with a thousand ships of war. This was a massacre of destruction of 700 ships. Would Geiseric gamble 50 vs 700, in a naval battle, only with fire ships and surprise?

This is one of many problems that I see when I go through the statistics listed for battles throughout history, since written history. But I just want someone to explain this one to me first.

As the title says really. Logically I would have Alexander's. Ok, it was technically Greek, it was Macedonian but the Byzantine started as Roman. It also held more territory and split apart after Alexander's death, it wasn't defeated by a foreign power like the Byzantines.

However, I get the impression from other people that the Byzantine Empire is held in higher regard. Perhaps this is an issue of how long they lasted for and that the Byzantines were descented from Rome. However, I feel this might just be a thing in the English speaking world so I wanted to know which one was held in higher regard in Greece?

It is commented and implied that Swiss benefited enormously of the money and other
valuables stored there during WW 2 (many by the Nazis) and which
weren't claimed after, and their bank industry boomed since then on.

But I was more surprised to learn that slavery, and even more horrible, child-slavery, was practiced in Switzerland all the way to the middle of XX century

<<Tens of thousands of unwanted Swiss children were sold in auctions or given away as cheap labour until the 1950s, according to a shocking television documentary>>

<<Many of the child workers, known as Verdingkinder (discarded children), ended up being beaten and sexually abused after passing under the auctioneer's hammer in Swiss provincial towns.>>

<< The trade finally ended only in the decade after the Second World War, when increased farm mechanisation meant less need for youthful labour.>>

<< "We estimate that between five and 10 per cent of all Swiss children may have been sold or sent away by their families to work in the countryside between 1850 and 1950.">>

<<The trade in surplus or unwanted children started during the early 19th century. Although it was particularly widespread in the German-speaking cantons of Switzerland, it occurred elsewhere as well: boys known as "black brothers" were sent from the Italian-speaking region of Ticino, across the border to work as chimney sweeps in Italy.>>

<< According to one account from 1826, “Who asked the least got the child despite its screaming and protests. ... The cheaper they had contracted the children, the better for the community.”>>

<<By placing vulnerable children at the mercy of poor farmers, the Swiss authorities created a situation ripe for abuse. The verdingkinder faced beatings, starvation and sexual abuse. Shunned by their schoolmates, they became socially isolated; suicide rates were high.>>

<<Well into the 20th century, other administrative internment policies operated concurrently with the verdingkinder system .......Adolescents and young adults deemed morally degenerate, including juvenile delinquents and unmarried mothers, were sent to detention centers or even prisons; young mothers were made to put their children up for adoption.>>

I understand Switzerland was a poor agricultural country until well after WW 2 and they resolved partially the workforce problem with this system. Kids used to help their parents at work wasn't uncommon back then (or even now) but nowhere I heard that such slave system to exist, especially in supposedly civilized Europe of XX century (I am not talking now about the genocidal systems as nazism and bloshevism).
I am just surprised that this things existed and not somewhere in Saudi Arabia but right in the middle of Europe

Some project of mine. Does it have enough of a Greece circa 400 BC vibe? :)

Some of the models i made are decently adapted from buildings of the era (eg the large entrance building to Corinth, and the Bouleuterion complex in Olympia). Mainly asking about the building placement, textures, walls etc..

]]>Vestigia VetustatisKyriakoshttp://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?695607-Does-this-look-Greek-enoughWarrior elites of history?http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?695529-Warrior-elites-of-history&goto=newpost
Tue, 28 Jul 2015 17:59:23 GMTReposting this topic without the list due to the original topic being closed...

Reposting this topic without the list due to the original topic being closed due to some dumb rule.

I'm just looking to find out more about elite organisations through history of warriors, who where strong in close combat to draw characters from for a story.

Appearantly I am not allowed to list what I have so far which may complicate things, but I am looking to represent many different people. Some good suggestions where already made with the Zulu and Mongols, I am still having doubts about Mauri but may have to check that out further. I think that someone from China should be included, but I have no idea about any outstanding soldier or warrior organisations from their long history.

With a Mongol warrior, a chinese, a Japanese Samurai and an Indian Rajput it seems Asia would be quite well presented.
Maybe needs a Russian too but I wouldnt know whats best there or most interesting.

As for equipment.. I gues every kind of warrior may have their own advantages and disadvantages.. being strong against one but weak against another. A knight on foot facing someone with a musket might have to pray it misses since from short range it would pierce their armor I assume. And other warriors may have a short ranged weapon that is faster than firing a musket or would have better chances of rolling away and dodging the shot.
That Conquistador might have a tomahawk in his face, arm or leg before he fires when facing an apache for example.

I'm working on a project with a diverse cast of characters drawn from all periods of history. Since its about these individuals there is a little leeway with who is deadliest, I do plan to include a few female characters as well after all for a more varied cast.

For this I do want to focus on the deadliest warriors in close combat, pitched arena battles. It's not about who of them would be the most powerfull, but I just want to have a good list to create my characters from for this project.
Individual talent of the character can compensate after all, but the background can help.

I am still very much open to changing this list though in case someone knows a better alternative. I am not quite sure about how deadly Jannisaries where in melee for example.
I am aiming for a very cast of culturally diverse characters, so I wouldnt have two of the same nationality from the same period. Hence I have chosen to make the Gladiator a former legionaire so that I can represent both with a single character.

I'm trying to slip in some female characters as well so that the cast won't be fully male but I'll need something believeable for that. So far I am considering making the pirate a woman Since there where some around. Also considering adding a Dahomey Amazon but here I wouldnt know how good they'd be in a melee either.. Maybe a Scythian warrior maiden too. I am planning to have a native american character who will likely be a woman too, but I wouldnt know which tribe would make most sense.

So yes, suggestions are welcome. While this project will deal with some fiction, I do try to keep it accurate where possible. So they will fight with the accurate weaponry and armor. I'll try to depict them all as respectfull representations of their backgrounds. I might romantisise is slightly but since its individual characters, it gives me this freedom. My samurai character can be honourable even while many in reality where not for example.

The Chinese Ming Dynasty (1368 - 1644 AD) ruled China (and for a brief time, Vietnam) until a number of factors brought it down. Those include natural disasters like crop failures brought on by the oncoming Little Ice Age, causing famine in some parts. An epidemic swept through large parts of the country in the 1630s and 1640s. To make matters worse, the Manchu were pressing at the northern borders and posing a serious threat to stability, much like their Jurchen ancestors hundreds of years before. It was the Han Chinese rebel general Li Zicheng that brought the dynasty down and forced the suicide of the last Ming emperor, Chongzhen, while Beijing was infiltrated and stormed by his army. The Manchu swept in soon afterwards and established the Qing Dynasty that ruled into the early 20th century. Yet how did things get so bad, economically speaking, for all of these disaffected rural peasants and others to rise up and join the ranks of Li Zicheng? Political authorities in Chinese history had weathered natural disasters before this with both success and failure, such as the usurper Wang Mang's government in the 1st century AD being unable to stop a revolt caused by massive flooding of the Yellow River (leading to the ultimate reestablishment of the Han Dynasty in 25 AD). However, the Ming Dynasty had suffered the worst earthquake in Chinese history, the Shaanxi Earthquake of 1556 that killed some 830,000 people, and yet it remained resilient, recovering smoothly, becoming arguably more decedent than before, and more importantly still holding the "Mandate of Heaven" (i.e. divine will, divine favor) in the people's eyes.

What, then, is the greatest factor causing governments to flounder or survive in the face of adversity? You guessed it: "it's the economy, stupid," as the common catchphrase from the 2008 US presidential campaign went. :tongue: Wang Mang had introduced a number of disastrous and misguided utopian-minded economic reforms that I won't cover in detail, but long story short, he wrecked the Chinese economy and pissed everyone off. Fast forward sixteen hundred years to the late Ming Dynasty, and we will soon find that another economic crisis was brewing.

For Ming China, the answer lies in its chief medium of exchange: silver. The Portuguese initiated trade relations with Ming China in 1516 and soon took on the role of intermediate between China and Japan by bartering Japanese silver to the Chinese in exchange for precious silks from the latter. This role was soon usurped by the Spanish, who at this point were developing a massive overseas empire of their own. Silver mined in the Americas was shipped across the Pacific, stopping at the Philippines, before being traded to Ming China on the Manila galleons. The Chinese used the new influx of silver as a main form of currency for farmers and landowners to pay their taxes, whilst using copper coinage for everyday common transactions and sales of their crops and foodstuffs at the local market.

However, after Philip IV of Spain assumed the throne he began cracking down on American silver shipments being made across the Pacific in favor of shipping them through ports back home in Spain. The Dutch, at the time Spain's greatest rivals on the high seas aside from the English, were already challenging Spain's lucrative trade role with Ming China. However, Philip IV's crackdown was coupled with the Tokugawa Shogunate of Japan outlawing almost all of its trade with European powers in 1639. That meant both Japanese and American silver were now cut off from Ming China. This led to a massive panic and hoarding of silver, the price of which skyrocketed when compared to the value of copper coinage. In 1630 a thousand copper coins could by an ounce of silver; in 1640 it could only purchase half an ounce; by 1643 it was only a third of an ounce that could be purchased. The shortage of silver meant the peasants couldn't pay their taxes; the only way to get more silver was to use up all of one's copper coins, meaning you had little of the latter left to engage in the selling and buying of crops, causing famine, starvation, and desperation.

By now you probably have a good idea why so many people were willing to turn to banditry and the promise of loot as a foot soldier in Li Zicheng's rebel army. So what do you guys think? Do you think Philip IV of Spain (and I suppose Shogun Tokugawa Iemitsu and his "Maritime Restrictions Edict" of 1639) is the main, albeit unwitting, culprit in causing the economic collapse and hence ultimate downfall of the Ming Dynasty? If so, do you think the present-day People's Republic of China will ask Spain for reparations? :surprise:

He should now rightly be nicknamed Philip IV, "the Bane of Chinamen," King of Spain. :D

]]>Vestigia VetustatisRoma_Victrixhttp://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?695479-Did-Philip-IV-of-Spain-cause-the-downfall-of-the-Ming-Dynasty-of-ChinaReenactinghttp://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?695478-Reenacting&goto=newpost
Tue, 28 Jul 2015 00:00:55 GMTHello,
This seems like the best place to put it, being the History part of...

Hello,

This seems like the best place to put it, being the History part of the forum.

However I am fairly surprised that there is no reenacting discussion on TWC, I've looked round, used the search function but come find nothing.

There seem to be accounts here and there of female warriors in native american tribes, I assume it was usually an exeption to the rule but I have a question for those who may have more knowledge about these tribes:

Where female warriors more common amongst some tribes, and which ones would that be?

I'd also be fine with hearing about meso american examples, even less seems to be known about them.

]]>Vestigia VetustatisInhuman Onehttp://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?695451-female-warriors-amongst-native-american-tribesWhy were medieval armies/commanders so unsuccessful?http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?695415-Why-were-medieval-armies-commanders-so-unsuccessful&goto=newpost
Mon, 27 Jul 2015 06:15:06 GMTUsually when one thinks of Medieval armies going on campaign one does not...

Usually when one thinks of Medieval armies going on campaign one does not associate consistent military success with their endeavors. For example for every hard fought victory acquired by the likes of say Manuel Komnenos, Richard the Lion Hearted, Frederick Barbarossa and a great host of other kings and military leaders there was sometimes a huge defeat that could be attributed to them or equal amounts of defeats. Even if the failure was not necessarily a huge tactical disaster it could come in the form of minor tactical defeats or a larger operational and strategic failure which could offset their success.

For example despite Frederick Barbarossa's victories against rebellious lords in Germany or against the forces of the Duchy in Poland, the many cities of Italy, the Byzantines and the Anatolian Turks he suffered crippling defeats in Italy proper given the fact that he was forced into protracted conflict, only able to salvage the situation and reclaim territory using diplomacy. Richard the Lionheart as well was unable to seize significant territory in France and during the crusades he failed utterly in his goal to take Jerusalem despite having a significant advantage in troops over Saladin. This might be true even into the 1500's where most military campaigns were successful but were immediately followed by a series of nauseatingly monotonous and unsuccessful campaigns.

The exceptions to this might very well be the cases of Edward III and Edward the Black Prince. As neither of them suffered tactical defeats in any campaign nor a significant strategic setback. Despite not being to able to have Paris surrender or defect to his side Edward III was quickly willing to come to terms with the French and settle for all the territory which he had already conquered. Although the success cannot necessarily be said to have been shared by the English after this as they ultimately lost the war the fact is that Henry V followed up decades later in emulation of his great grand father with a successful campaign of his own. His career was very successful if only because he had such an early death.

I've formulated my own opinions about this. Most of them having to do with feudalism and the availability of troops at any given moment and of course the factor of logistics but also the tactical parity or disadvantages forced upon them by fortifications which dictated the success of entire armies. Even so how did certain men (this being the Medieval period and all) have so much success as opposed to other men. The military art not being taught in any sort of academy. What set individuals like Edward III and his son Edward the Black Prince or their descendant Henry V apart from someone like Richard or Frederick Barbarossa? What was essentially considered the ideal commander in this time?

In a nutshell there was no commander that did not suffer their fair share of massive defeats (be they huge battles or a failed objective/war), even the really successful ones of this period. The most successful by far seem to have been Timur and Genghis Khan in terms of the huge amount of territory they conquered and many battles that they won.

]]>Vestigia VetustatisLord Oda Nobunagahttp://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?695415-Why-were-medieval-armies-commanders-so-unsuccessfulParallelism Roman Empire-United States of Americahttp://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?695396-Parallelism-Roman-Empire-United-States-of-America&goto=newpost
Sun, 26 Jul 2015 21:14:12 GMT*Republicanism:*
* After removal of the last king Tarquinius, the Senate...

Republicanism:

After removal of the last king Tarquinius, the Senate voted to never again allow the rule of a king and reformed Rome into a republican government in 509 BC

British North American colonies declared their independence against the British Empire, and after winning the Revolutionary War, the colonies declared themselves a constitutional federal republic and voted to never again allow to submit a king.

Two-party system

The political system in Roman Republic had two parties, Populares and Optimates, that in US have two main parties, Republicans and Democrats

Rise as a power:

Rome became a mediterranean power after defeating Carthage in the two Punic Wars.

US became a global superpower after defeating Germany in two World Wars.

American military industry earned huge profits from a recent local wars like Vietnam War, Korean War, War in Afghanistan or Iraq War

50% from roman treasury was invested in the army , as much like US military & defence budget

Both have great professional armies

Preventive war:

In 149 BC, Cato the Elder has called for the destruction of Carthage for its rise commercial represent a potential threat.

In 2003, the Bush administration initiated the invasion of Iraq because Saddam Hussein had WMD hidden.

Civil War

As Roman Republic which was devastated by a series of civil wars in first century BC, in 1860-1865, US it went through a secessionist war.

External influences:

Like the Roman Empire, the US role in foreign relations and diplomacy is high to ensure their interests and maintain stability.

Selfless Leadership

Rooted in agrarian societies, commitment to family and mutual citizen interdependence were basic in each society. Cincinnatus, a Roman farmer, saved the republic from invading Aequi tribes in 458 B.C. and again in 439 B.C. when a conspiracy threatened the government. In both cases, he was named dictator, but shortly thereafter resigned his commission to return to farming. George Washington, a Virginia farmer who led the fight against the British, resigned after his second term as president to return to his Virginia estate. Both men are examples of leaders who put the needs of their country before their personal interests.

Eternal Cities

Rome and Washington DC have much in common in terms of urban and arhitectural planning.

Middle class

In the period before the fall of the Republic, the middle class was ruined by cheap labor of slaves.

Differences between rich and poor increased.

Today, thanks to the financial crisis, the middle class stagnated because many Chinese are willing to work efficient for low wages and fewer rights.

Tolerance

With rare exceptions, Rome was an open society for many ethnicities and religions as USA today.Rome welcomed other people – particularly its vanquished enemies – into Roman citizenship, even accepting the gods of the newcomers.

Infrastructure

Like the Roman Empire, the US benefits from an advanced sewage system,swimming pool like roman public baths, pipeline like a roman aqueduct, roads, bridges, concrete buildings with floors and windows glasses and Shopping Malls like oldest roman forums

Language

Latin was dominant in the Mediterranean as global English in present.

Entertainment

If the Romans builded circular amphitheatres for battles between gladiators , americans build circular arenas for football matches.

The threat from outside

Migratory populations as Vandals, Huns, Visigoths posed a great threat to the borders of the Roman Empire

Islamic terrorists pose a threat to US security and interests.

Conflict with Persia

Parthian Empire and the Roman Empire have been in continuous rivalry as the US and Iran

Religion

Religion Christian, mostly in the US, have many traditions and holidays taken by Roman paganism: example- Christmas / Saturnalia, Valentine's Day / Lupercalia

Roman Empire face off with the spread of Christianity, the US faces the spread of Islam.