* From the [http://www.eclipse.org/projects/dev_process/architecture-council.php EAC charter]: ''"responsible for the long-term technical health of the Eclipse platforms and frameworks (...) involves itself in inter- and intra-project architecture (...) and open source process (...) <b>through discussion during its meetings, mentoring and consultation</b>."''

* From the [http://www.eclipse.org/projects/dev_process/architecture-council.php EAC charter]: ''"responsible for the long-term technical health of the Eclipse platforms and frameworks (...) involves itself in inter- and intra-project architecture (...) and open source process (...) <b>through discussion during its meetings, mentoring and consultation</b>."''

* "Pull" model: Allow adding eclipse.org-architecture-council@eclipse.org on CC on bugzilla for tough questions (rather than being active itself, the EAC is there to respond / mentor, and to identify issues)

+

* '''"Pull" model:''' Allow adding eclipse.org-architecture-council@eclipse.org on CC on bugzilla for tough questions (rather than being active itself, the EAC is there to respond / mentor, and to identify issues)

** Cross-project [[Architecture Council Discovery and Reuse Activity]]: better a pull-model ("ask the combined wisdom") rather than a static page that tends to be out of date... or, come up with a process to auto-update the webpage?

** Cross-project [[Architecture Council Discovery and Reuse Activity]]: better a pull-model ("ask the combined wisdom") rather than a static page that tends to be out of date... or, come up with a process to auto-update the webpage?

* EAC Be a platform where pain points can be raised - but closer to committers than the Board. Suggest actions or create separate working group to work on things (Any pain points that come to mind?)

* EAC Be a platform where pain points can be raised - but closer to committers than the Board. Suggest actions or create separate working group to work on things (Any pain points that come to mind?)

*** Ed: Assigned mentors should be on CC first, and if they are not able to resolve something they could escalate to the EAC - often it's got nothing to do with a specific bugzilla

+

*** Ed: All projects should have mentors, even if graduated from incubation - some older projects don't have them

+

*** Jeff: No, mentors were added to help projects through incubation (though some were incubated without a mentor)

+

*** Martin: don't try to over-specify our scope, start trying to get topics by various means, since the main problem last year was lack of topics to discuss (which resulted in the much-hated what we're good for discussion)

+

** Oisin: in favor

+

*** Jeff: duplication with cross-project?

+

**** Martin: probably not very clearly defineable

+

*** DougS, Ed: cross-project is something that matters to all projects; architecture council could be something that matters to "my project" but that I want to ask the Mentors

+

*** MichaelS: "EAC bugs" in bugzilla as a Component

+

*** Mik: "Cross-Projects" component already exists in bugzilla, could start using those more; though CC'ing cross-project worked

* Invite people to present architectural questions for discussion at EAC meetings

* Invite people to present architectural questions for discussion at EAC meetings

+

** MichaelS: The purpose of the EAC is still vague

+

** Martin: LPGL issue by Dave Carver

+

** Michael: That's not architecture?

+

** Mary: License questions are very relevant, would love to have that discussed here

+

** Jeff: Danger to comment if we do not have the right answer. Meta-statement is: knowing the bounds of EAC is important.. though we can give pointers

+

** Ed: Could turn the question into an architecture question - how can we build architecture that allows us to perform some work in a license-compliant way

+

** DougS: good idea, but we need to prioritize (controlled agenda)

+

** MichaelS: plugin dependencies, and how to reduce them - how to split into plugins

+

** Jeff: Agree, plugin granularity is important

+

** DougS: Catalog of Best Practices

+

** Boris: Would like to see more Articles on the Website (an "EAC Series" of articles, reviewed by the EAC) to raise the visibility

* Jeff proposes alternated meeting, in order to accomodate people with standing meetings (Tues and Thurs alternating)

+

* '''AI Martin''' put out the suggestion

=== Council Membership ===

=== Council Membership ===

Line 55:

Line 90:

=== Discussions ===

=== Discussions ===

+

+

* Technical questions - DougS: Mailing List would be good

+

* MichaelS: Threading is a very important topic

+

* Ed: an interesting topic, should be discussed here

+

* Boris: perfect because JohnA is on the Council

+

* Martin: Using Bugzilla seems a good tool for such questions

+

* '''AI Martin''' fork out the ISchedulingRule question from below into a Bug for discussions

+

==== ISchedulingRule ====

==== ISchedulingRule ====

* A very technical issue, as a test balloon how that feels with the EAC

* A very technical issue, as a test balloon how that feels with the EAC

Line 70:

Line 113:

** To get it right a rule should contain another rule only if it also conflicts with this rule. However, because isConflicting() has to be symmetric, I cannot contain another rule. The only way to do that is to use MultiRule (which gets special treatment in the job-manager).

** To get it right a rule should contain another rule only if it also conflicts with this rule. However, because isConflicting() has to be symmetric, I cannot contain another rule. The only way to do that is to use MultiRule (which gets special treatment in the job-manager).

* How to use RuleFactory and MultiRule properly?

* How to use RuleFactory and MultiRule properly?

+

+

'''&rarr; discussion continued on {{bug|246840}}'''

==== LGPL ====

==== LGPL ====

Line 75:

Line 120:

* GTK version of SWT links against LGPL'd lib? What can and can not be done?

* GTK version of SWT links against LGPL'd lib? What can and can not be done?

* Is the EAC the right place for such questions?

* Is the EAC the right place for such questions?

+

* Jeff: The answer is, CQ the library, with "works with" or "requires".

+

* Ed: yes, but clients still struggle with building a working environment

+

* Jeff: Should try to address that with P2 and distribution technology

+

* MichaelS: Need an "Outside Eclipse" place for things with problematic licenses (antlr, emfatic, ... a single site)

+

* Jeff: somebody could do that, but the EAC should not promote that

−

==== Other Ideas for Discussion ====

+

'''&rarr; discussion continued on {{bug|246945}}'''

−

* '''Mentoring New Projects'''

+

−

** Experiences? What could be improved?

+

−

** Nick & Denis [[Build Workshop 2: Build Harder]] -- to be continued under Dash when Nick is back from honeymoon & vacation. Adding a representative of Dash to the EAC?

* '''Integrated bug reporting''': Mylyn is providing a bug/error/enhancement reporting facility that will provide a flexible and product-configurable mapping between features, bundles and bug trackers {{bug|212209}} (Example: http://wiki.eclipse.org/images/8/86/Mylyn-Bug-Reporting-Example.jpg ). Do we want this for Galileo?

* [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] Martin to draft an E-Mail to eclipse.org-committers for review, inviting to put EAC on CC of bugs

−

** Martin found Max Gilead, who was working with OpenOffice.org's UNO remote communication facility and during that work written a little library on top of it called [http://sourceforge.net/projects/duo-wrapper DUO] which provides more user (developer :) ) - friendly access to some of the features. He agreed to give some thoughts when back from a business trip.

+

* [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] Martin to send E-Mail to EAC list as a reminder for "Architectural Walkthrough". Will propose this to the public only when we get one more project so sign up (in addition to mylyn) to make the review by putting together material (slideware, ...)

+

* MichaelS to draft an E-Mail about the "plugin granularity" idea, searching for people to lead the effort

Agenda / Notes

Feel free to edit!

Rotating Chair Position for 1 year (term: 1 Aug - 1 Aug), election in June

EAC Role, and how to make it more relevant

From the Eclipse dev process: "responsible for the development, articulation, and maintenance of the Eclipse Platform Architecture and ensuring the Principles of the Development Process through mentorship."

From the EAC charter: "responsible for the long-term technical health of the Eclipse platforms and frameworks (...) involves itself in inter- and intra-project architecture (...) and open source process (...) through discussion during its meetings, mentoring and consultation."

Mentorship can encompass many things - EAC as source for mentors, mentoring mentors

"Pull" model: Allow adding eclipse.org-architecture-council@eclipse.org on CC on bugzilla for tough questions (rather than being active itself, the EAC is there to respond / mentor, and to identify issues)

Ed: Assigned mentors should be on CC first, and if they are not able to resolve something they could escalate to the EAC - often it's got nothing to do with a specific bugzilla

Ed: All projects should have mentors, even if graduated from incubation - some older projects don't have them

Jeff: No, mentors were added to help projects through incubation (though some were incubated without a mentor)

Martin: don't try to over-specify our scope, start trying to get topics by various means, since the main problem last year was lack of topics to discuss (which resulted in the much-hated what we're good for discussion)

Oisin: in favor

Jeff: duplication with cross-project?

Martin: probably not very clearly defineable

DougS, Ed: cross-project is something that matters to all projects; architecture council could be something that matters to "my project" but that I want to ask the Mentors

MichaelS: "EAC bugs" in bugzilla as a Component

Mik: "Cross-Projects" component already exists in bugzilla, could start using those more; though CC'ing cross-project worked

Invite people to present architectural questions for discussion at EAC meetings

MichaelS: The purpose of the EAC is still vague

Martin: LPGL issue by Dave Carver

Michael: That's not architecture?

Mary: License questions are very relevant, would love to have that discussed here

Jeff: Danger to comment if we do not have the right answer. Meta-statement is: knowing the bounds of EAC is important.. though we can give pointers

Ed: Could turn the question into an architecture question - how can we build architecture that allows us to perform some work in a license-compliant way

DougS: good idea, but we need to prioritize (controlled agenda)

MichaelS: plugin dependencies, and how to reduce them - how to split into plugins

Jeff: Agree, plugin granularity is important

DougS: Catalog of Best Practices

Boris: Would like to see more Articles on the Website (an "EAC Series" of articles, reviewed by the EAC) to raise the visibility

Jeff proposes alternated meeting, in order to accomodate people with standing meetings (Tues and Thurs alternating)

AI Martin put out the suggestion

Council Membership

From the Development Process: "The Architecture Council will, at least annually, recommend to the EMO(ED), Eclipse Members who have sufficient experience, wisdom, and time to be appointed to the Architecture Council and serve as Mentors."

From the EAC charter: "Members (...) are appointed to three year terms (...) Members who are unresponsive to the business of the Council (...) can be removed by a simple three +1s, no upheld -1s vote of the Council."

Any inactive members to prune off the councils page? - Suggestion to add the Year of joining for appointed members, such that inactivity can be tracked.

Have E-Mail proposals / elections like last year? Probably later this year?

Dave Carver: profound knowledge in XML and web technologies, eager to help the development process

Discussions

Technical questions - DougS: Mailing List would be good

MichaelS: Threading is a very important topic

Ed: an interesting topic, should be discussed here

Boris: perfect because JohnA is on the Council

Martin: Using Bugzilla seems a good tool for such questions

AI Martin fork out the ISchedulingRule question from below into a Bug for discussions

ISchedulingRule

A very technical issue, as a test balloon how that feels with the EAC

Markus Schorn: bug 240888 - ISchedulingRule.isConflicting() vs. ISchedulingRule.contains() -- API Docs are there, but missing on the point how it is supposed to be used. How to write a contains() rule properly? How to use it with RuleFactory and MultiRule?

Asking the combined wisdom of the EAC, how projects tend to be doing scheduling with IJobManager. Is the EAC the right platform for this, or where should this be discussed?

Original problem was how to save Project Preferences properly:

Need to run a job with a project-rule. Additionally in the job some project-preferences will be flushed. The flushing will potentially lock some resources, outside of the project!!.

Problem 1: I have to know in advance, that the flushing of the preferences will lock resources. I need to look at its implementation to figure out the maximum of resources that will be locked. This is against information hiding.

Problem 2: The rules are determined via IWorkspace.getRuleFactory(). It turns out that the rules I obtain from there can differ from call to call. This makes the situation worse in that I can run into an IllegalArgumentException, even if I obtained the rules for the job in the same way as it is done in the methods I am using inside of the job. How to use it properly?

The bug is currently marked fixed, it was solved by taking a Workspace rule. But is this the best we can do?

Implementation of the Job needs to call out to other (unknown) implementation through APIs, e.g. savePreferences. These may require new, different ISchedulingRules, but are not allowed to do so at liberty (for the sake of deadlock prevention).

Should it be part of API Docs what SchedulingRules some API Call requires?

Is there some different usage pattern to avoid the problem?

ISchedulingRule#contains(): when a scheduling-rule contains another one, then a call to getJobManager().beginRule() for a contained rule simply has no effect. That means that by starting a rule that contains let's say all resources (that's compliant with the API) I can bypass any locking on resources in subsequent method calls.

To get it right a rule should contain another rule only if it also conflicts with this rule. However, because isConflicting() has to be symmetric, I cannot contain another rule. The only way to do that is to use MultiRule (which gets special treatment in the job-manager).

Action Items

Boris to start a "top 10 architectural best practices" thread on the mailing list

Martin to draft an E-Mail to eclipse.org-committers for review, inviting to put EAC on CC of bugs

Martin to send E-Mail to EAC list as a reminder for "Architectural Walkthrough". Will propose this to the public only when we get one more project so sign up (in addition to mylyn) to make the review by putting together material (slideware, ...)

MichaelS to draft an E-Mail about the "plugin granularity" idea, searching for people to lead the effort

Martin to propose alternate meeting scheme on the mailing list

Bjorn or Anne to add a "year of appointment" to members on the councils page

Everyone to think about time commitments that can be made for "architectural things" at Eclipse

Everyone to propose new members on the mailing list

Martin to create bugzilla bugs for the ISchedulingRule and LGPL discussions