If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

I get that he wont score TDs in the way Calvin and Fitz do, but he doesnt score TDs the way ward and holmes do either...thats factual.

Percentage wise back with holmes and ward might not have been different but the WRs were scoring TDs.

Ben has one of the best PA fakes ive ever seen, his game is clearly on top when theres a running threat...when theres not, he can PA all he wants the d just goes after him since they can stop the run with clear pass rushing defenses.

Redzone efficiency is a part of scoring TDs, but wallace was TERRIBLE in the redzone and still scored around 10 TDs a year, you want brown to be this complete #1 WR and elite route runner with great speed he should be scoring more than 2-5 TDs a year whether they are passes from inside the 20 or deep passes down the sideline, and broken plays not necessarily a deep ball. he should be able to find the endzone more to get this label as a legit #1

Last year brown had 5, less than all of the obvious huge guys but also less than Hilton, Shorts, Cruz, Cobb, Alexander, Smith, Maclin, Moore, Crabtree, Tate, Austin, and Stevie johnson.....none of which are in the redzone terror Calvin/Fitz/Julio/Green category, but also none who are in the mike wallace down the sideline category either.

Imo he stepped his game up this year so far, but he needs to be better, and he needs to be the complimentary WR to someone.

I know hes pretty much useless and doesnt give a **** anymore, but I miss holmes

I get that he wont score TDs in the way Calvin and Fitz do, but he doesnt score TDs the way ward and holmes do either...thats factual.

Percentage wise back with holmes and ward might not have been different but the WRs were scoring TDs.

Ben has one of the best PA fakes ive ever seen, his game is clearly on top when theres a running threat...when theres not, he can PA all he wants the d just goes after him since they can stop the run with clear pass rushing defenses.

Redzone efficiency is a part of scoring TDs, but wallace was TERRIBLE in the redzone and still scored around 10 TDs a year, you want brown to be this complete #1 WR and elite route runner with great speed he should be scoring more than 2-5 TDs a year whether they are passes from inside the 20 or deep passes down the sideline, and broken plays not necessarily a deep ball. he should be able to find the endzone more to get this label as a legit #1

Last year brown had 5, less than all of the obvious huge guys but also less than Hilton, Shorts, Cruz, Cobb, Alexander, Smith, Maclin, Moore, Crabtree, Tate, Austin, and Stevie johnson.....none of which are in the redzone terror Calvin/Fitz/Julio/Green category, but also none who are in the mike wallace down the sideline category either.

Imo he stepped his game up this year so far, but he needs to be better, and he needs to be the complimentary WR to someone.

I know hes pretty much useless and doesnt give a **** anymore, but I miss holmes

And that's pretty much the end of the story. Nothing you can take away from this and not much more to add.

I called it. F##king troll just looking for a backdoor to knock the QB since he's too pu$$y to say what he actually thinks.

I have no interest in getting in the middle of two other posters in a pi$$ing match, so I will not respond even if you reply, but all I ever see NPB do is call it as he sees it. Like all of us, sometimes he does not do it the right way but he speaks both positively and negatively about Ben and the team in general. That is called nuance, something many posters lack (Blame Colbert. Blame Tomlin. Blame Haley. Blame DLB.). It is seldom a case of "Player A is elite" or "Player A sucks." Usually, it is somewhere in between. This is true of Ben. He has some qualities that he does better than most anybody and others that he is lacking.

I am not sure why pointing out that Ben's numbers in the red zone are not that great (a supportable opinion even if you disagree) and that it impacts the TDs by WRs has controversy attached to it to the point that you would accuse someone of hating Ben.

Tomlin today banned any player from doing Somersaults into the endzone. What he NEEDS to do is Ban Antonio from doing that Stupid A-Z-Z Extending his arm out and dropping the ball after every 1st down he gets. It's stupid Punk A-Z-Z Sh!t.
No TRUE Number 1 WR does that kinda stuff. Maybe thats why Brown does it cause he knows he's not good enough to actually score a TD often enough to do his dumb celebrations. But at least with a TD I can understand whatever Idiotic Soul Train Dance he does. But pointing his Arm out and dropping the ball after a 1st down is as Childish as it gets. And Tomlin needs to put a stop to it.

I am not sure why pointing out that Ben's numbers in the red zone are not that great (a supportable opinion even if you disagree) and that it impacts the TDs by WRs has controversy attached to it to the point that you would accuse someone of hating Ben.

K-Train explained why, but maybe you missed it. I will add to that poster's reason by saying this:

1. What is that list ordered by? As far as I can see, it looks like it's ordered by attempts. How exactly do redzone pass attempts gauge a quarterback's redzone efficiency?

2. What's the point of highlighting the fact that Roethlisberger and Sanchez are next to each other based on attempts? What does "that's embarrassing" mean? Is there an implication that Roethlisberger is as good/bad as Mark Sanchez in the redzone?

If Sanchez and Roethlisberger are being compared by pass attempts in the redzone, then yes, they're similar. But once again, what exactly does pass attempts have to do with how good a quarterback is if the other numbers are not taken into account?

Sanchez is at 49 percent completion percentage and throws an interception 21 percent of the time in the redzone.

Roethlisberger is at 52 percent completion percentage and throws an interception 12 percent of the time in the redzone.

A person would say, well their completion percentages are pretty close. Which is true, except the guy who is "5th" on this list based on the idiotic set order has a completion percentage of 51 and throws an interception 18 percent of the time.

And the guy who is "6th" on the list has a completion percentage of 56 and throws an interception 12 percent of the time in the redzone.

And the guy "18th" on this list has a completion percentage of 57 and throws an interception only 5 percent of the time.

Basically, you remove the 4 guys on top of this list and everyone else is pretty much closely comparable to one another.

So I'll ask you again because his response is useless:

1. What was the point of the ordered list other than to show Roethlisberger and Sanchez next to each other on a list with his remark

Originally Posted by NeilPatrickBanana

that's embarrassing....

?

2. How did that list demonstrate that

Originally Posted by NeilPatrickBanana

Red Zone efficiency has always been an issue for Ben.. I don't think that's really debatable.

3. How did that list in anyway show that Brown makes Roethlisberger better OR that Brown doesn't score TDs because of Roethlisberger?

Tomlin today banned any player from doing Somersaults into the endzone. What he NEEDS to do is Ban Antonio from doing that Stupid A-Z-Z Extending his arm out and dropping the ball after every 1st down he gets. It's stupid Punk A-Z-Z Sh!t.
No TRUE Number 1 WR does that kinda stuff. Maybe thats why Brown does it cause he knows he's not good enough to actually score a TD often enough to do his dumb celebrations. But at least with a TD I can understand whatever Idiotic Soul Train Dance he does. But pointing his Arm out and dropping the ball after a 1st down is as Childish as it gets. And Tomlin needs to put a stop to it.

What's with the holier than thou stance? Jesus ****ing Christ it's competitive out there the more fired up the better, in every case.

Holmes used to do that too, as do a lot of players? Who gives a ****? I want to somersault whenever sanders catches a pass in general because I'm thrilled he didn't drop it. Tomlin "banned" it because they still suck, you should to celebrate when you suck not because it makes you a punk, but because no one cares because you still are 1-4

Brown has been dogged as "not a true #1 WR" by Steelers fans for the last year and a half, and it's time for that myth to be dispelled. While he will never be one of the truly elite WRs (the very few "special" ones - Calvin, Julio, Fitz, AJ, Dez) he is a bonafide #1 WR. He makes his QB better with his play by:
- Running pristine routes and full route tree (simply put he is an elite route runner... one of the best in the league)
- Being versatile to line up anywhere, and execute the full variety of skills required of a WR
- Catching EVERYTHING. He makes the difficult catches (Yes, he dropped that TD... but it's the only thing he's dropped)
- 41 reception on 50 targets with only 1 drop... catching 82% of targets leads the NFL
- averaging nearly 100 yards per game

Some around here have defined a #1 WR as someone who makes his QB better... and that's exactly what Brown does. OUtside of those truly elite few... the next tier of WRs is usually the "scheme specific" guys who dominate the stat sheet... like Wes Welker or Roddy White. That's the company Brown belongs in. A true #1 WR who fits the scheme, and makes his QB better (regardless of how good that QB is on their own).

A perfect route runner... makes a QB better
A WR with excellent hands who is capable of making difficult catches.... makes a QB better

Just because he is not 6'3" 215 lbs or more.... doesn't mean he's not a #1 WR.

Time for Steelers Fans to recognize... completely... how good he is.

It's easy to make a "Top 5 WRs in the NFL" list... and leave Brown off. That's a no brainer
It's easy to do the same with a "Top 10" list... although he's making the case that he belongs
If you make a top 15 list without him on it, I'd argue that you were wrong...
If you make a top 20 list without him on it, you're just dumb...

Why do the Steelers need a #1 rec, why can't they just be a collective corps of rec? Is it so the opp can gameplan? Yes, used to be each team lined up and said: "lets hit each other in the mouth and see who wins", I know that's not how the game is played, but this debate about AB is stupid!!! The guy plays hard, he's not Hines, but he shows emotion and that's something this team is lacking. He's not the brightest guy on the team, but he's got heart, that's what Steeler football is about!!!

He is painfully afraid of the endzone, its disturbing. 9 career TDs is sad, his 2 this season were playing catch up to the bears with tilman out of the game.

Ward was never a great #1 WR, but the guy had multiple years with 8-12 TDs. Brown doesnt get it done in the endzone, thats worrisome to me. Once they get the big bodied WR that creates mismatches, brown will explode...at least between the 20s. He has stepped up his game, he looks a little bigger and stronger out there but he seriously lacks when it comes to putting points on the board

So AB gets them to the redzone without a running game and he's supposed to be superman and score each touchdown? If we had a running game, could AB be more effective? You're putting a lot on a guy who has little support from other aspects of the offense, ie running game!! Why doesn't the TE position have more TD's? It pisses me off when everything is evaluated on stats, the Steeler organization has never been about STATS, it's about winning as a team, unfortunately the nfl isn't about that it's about money!