These things are ridiculous. Using henchmen, anything more than four is a guaranteed teamwipe. Even fighting four or less, you're most likely going to lose a couple teammates. Even when you're five levels higher than they are, Tengu make travel around the Kryta area an exercise in frustration. They really need to be toned down a bit.

Horus Vindictive

23-06-2005, 03:02

lol yeah i noticed that myself.. i was triing to get to bergen from the nebo/kryta portal and the i hitnk 4 maybe 5 groups of 4 tengu took me almost and hour to kill them all of 1 by 1 by 1 because like you said anything beyond 3 of them will wipe a team of people or hench below like lvl 15.. and they are lvl 13.. dont get why they are that strong.. but yeah i agree they shouldnt be hitting you for 30+ normal attack and of course use seeking blade and yada.. not bad on the special attack but think their normal melee is insanely to hard hitting.. especially since they are always paried with either 2 scouts or a mesmer who ruins everything anyway..

Neandro Thal

23-06-2005, 03:08

These things are ridiculous. Using henchmen, anything more than four is a guaranteed teamwipe. Even fighting four or less, you're most likely going to lose a couple teammates. Even when you're five levels higher than they are, Tengu make travel around the Kryta area an exercise in frustration. They really need to be toned down a bit.

Last night did the Kryta missions with my new Fire elementalist and henchies. My Ele is L12 btw. Anyway, lost one or two henchies the whole night but thats it. I dont think any mob in this game is that hard, and most can be soloed with the right build.

10% of the time the problem when I hear this, the issue is the build or the distribution of points. Many heroes like to spread thier points around. This dilutes your power. For instance, my L12 fire ele has 12 in fire.

90% of the time the problem is simply over agro. People say they dont but thats all they do time and time again. Especailly the Tengu as they rove in packs that are fast and tightly packed. You need to pull and retreat to make sure that you only fight one group at a time, pull and retreat, pull and retreat, for sure if you are using henchies.

If you are building a team make sure it has:

1) 2 Tank to hold agro on the same target- stephan and Little B are fine.
2) Dedicated healer first - alesia is fine. Smiters/Prot if u have extra room
3) Nuker/DoT like a fire ele - Orion aint that great.
4) Puller - rangers are the best for this.
5) #6 is you

Lilanthe

23-06-2005, 03:13

Tengus/Avicaras are my number one ennemy. I'm sure that if they had a little more ambition, they could take over the world with ease.

Xiux X

23-06-2005, 03:19

Well, they're too busy strutting around showing off their bad-assedness and preening their feathers.... My worst nightmare? Gwen revealing her true evil side to the Guild Wars player base by hunting down all the players, having Glint as her right-hand lieutenant, and the Tengus and Avicaras as their soldiers..... They could wipe out anything! Idea for a one year anniversary, maybe? Have a huge invasion of the outposts, like the bone dragon invasin during the betas.... Don't know how to implement that, and its probably impossible, but i do think it would be insanely cool to fend off a tengu invasion in LA, or an Avicara attack in Beacon's perch or droknars....

Noochie

23-06-2005, 03:31

I farm them no problem.
*shrugs*

necroshmancer

23-06-2005, 03:34

You can argue that any mob is easy when you exercise patience and skill but I really do agree Tengu are crazy strong. I can run into huge groups of the scale guys near Lion's Arch and annihilate them with any character with just my normal micro-management and no complicated and time-consuming pulling methods.

All the Tengu have good skills for quick damage dealing. The warrior guys hit quickly and have seeking blade, the archers do more than average ranged damage and use apply poison and the caster types actually do their job instead of sitting there like statues. Just a pain in the butt...

Dukan

23-06-2005, 03:51

I think the tengu sound like they should be on Tool Time with Tim Allen.

Arr, arr, arrr...... :D

Buddah

23-06-2005, 03:59

The Avicara Fierce are probably the worst of the lot. That take serious advantage when people start to huddle up to close and let fly with their arrows. I'd say the Guiles come in second with their clinic on how to be an annoyingly effective necro.

majoho

23-06-2005, 04:31

I agree, compared to other monsters of the same level they seem to be tougher.

Patccmoi

23-06-2005, 04:38

What people saying 'i farm them' or 'i don't die to them' don't seem to get is this:

Sure there is a way to beat them, i go farming Mineral Spring in full vs Avicaras with henchies only, BUT for their LEVEL, they are extremely strong.

If Tengus were level 15, at least you would get the xp reward for the effort in killing them. They would be fair for level 15. NOT at level 13, they're just way stronger than most of the others of similar level.

Same for Avicara. Compare Avicaras to Pinesoul, Ice Siege Golem, etc... Either these should be toned down (i believe that actually, i'd put pinesouls and ice golems at level 22) or Avicaras need to be raised. Thing is they are just much stronger than most other level 24s. Avicara Fierce are 3 times more dangerous archers than level 24 Dwarf Scouts that i nearly ignore...

BrimstoneGale

23-06-2005, 05:04

Tengu are definitely tough but I wouldn't say they were overpowered, if anything I wish more mobs in this game were like that - it takes a well coordinated team to take them down in large numbers, it's a challange and it's interesting. It's not very impressive when so many missions can be soloed with only henches.

Tall Leprechaun

23-06-2005, 05:05

They're not necessarily tougher than other mobs. Think Hydras. They just do a good job at Focus Fire. Since their group are filled with good role players like Mesmer/Necro, Ranger and Warrior they can take down most unprepared groups.

Noochie

23-06-2005, 05:06

Most people complain PvE is too easy. So, there we go, a hard enemy to fight. Everyone be happy, there's actually some challenge.

salaboB

23-06-2005, 05:08

Most people complain PvE is too easy. So, there we go, a hard enemy to fight. Everyone be happy, there's actually some challenge.
Nah, you just have to pull them properly and they're not too hard. What makes the Tengu immediately outside LA really tough is the fact that all the groups seem to have patrol paths over the entire area, so if you don't finish off one group very rapidly you'll get adds, then more adds, etc. Careful pulling will reduce that to one group at a time.

More challenge please.

Noochie

23-06-2005, 05:13

Nah, you just have to pull them properly and they're not too hard. What makes the Tengu immediately outside LA really tough is the fact that all the groups seem to have patrol paths over the entire area, so if you don't finish off one group very rapidly you'll get adds, then more adds, etc. Careful pulling will reduce that to one group at a time.

More challenge please.

Still, it's the first time you have to really stratigicly kill the mobs, and can catch some people off guard.

Frost-X

23-06-2005, 05:24

I farm them no problem.
*shrugs*

i farm them too when i am lvl 20 and finished with the game , but they farm me when i am just starting out with the level at that area lol, basically they are tougher than other monsters with the same level i believe but its not too tough to beat them still.

salaboB

23-06-2005, 05:49

Still, it's the first time you have to really stratigicly kill the mobs, and can catch some people off guard.
Oh, I agree. The game should be cluttered with interesting enemies like this, instead of a light splattering.

stilted

23-06-2005, 05:56

damn yeah! 2 of them are a nightmare for my lv 20 ele/ranger =[! i can solo 4 flesh golem whacking -50 dmg a hit easily with my ele/ranger, but tengus??? anything other than 2 of them = dead me

Jahoclave

23-06-2005, 06:13

I think the tengu sound like they should be on Tool Time with Tim Allen.

Arr, arr, arrr...... :D
But they already took something from Tool Time. Damn ghostly hero and his wanting to build a closet for his flannel.

Buckiller

23-06-2005, 06:23

I would like to see tengu play as bigger role in an expansion...they seem intelligent, maybe we can go explore there home in the expansion.

DeadUserTyping

23-06-2005, 06:26

Yeah they are a tad bit overpowered for their level. They sure did rip apart my monk in seconds.

baddawg

23-06-2005, 07:31

I don't think they are overpowered so much as they are in such large numbers, and agro from 10 miles away.Cutting their ag range in half would be a huge help.

Orestes

23-06-2005, 07:44

I hate the Inferno Imps more, the 4 of em at the start of Sactum Cay.... *Shudder* No one died, but man are they annoying.

Chantal Dubois

23-06-2005, 08:27

These things are ridiculous. Using henchmen, anything more than four is a guaranteed teamwipe. Even fighting four or less, you're most likely going to lose a couple teammates. Even when you're five levels higher than they are, Tengu make travel around the Kryta area an exercise in frustration. They really need to be toned down a bit.

You know what? You should have seen the insane numbers before in one of the early BWE's....it's what prompted this little story: The Great Tengu Turkey Hunt (http://www.gwonline.net/article.php?artid=35&action=part1)! Read and laugh! :wink2:

Daggah

24-06-2005, 01:36

I have yet to be able to beat a Tengu mob (outside the seaboard, along the path to the Ascalon Settlement) with henchmen with my lvl 15 w/r. Haven't tried yet with people. Yes, I have a bow - specifically went out and bought a long bow just for this - but no go. I still get owned in seconds.

hahnsoo

24-06-2005, 03:25

Most of the power of the Tengu comes from intelligent skill selection. For example, the Avicara Archers actually use a decent skill combination, Dual Shot + Ignite Arrows. The Caromi Guiles use Cry of Frustration at the most damnable times while laying down a continual Conjure Phantasm. Both Avicara and Caromi warriors have a skill that hits even while you are evading/blocking, making them great for close-up encounters. They have about the same amount of HP and armor as things of comparable level, but it seems the skillsets were handcrafted to beat up most PvE player configs that have been successful up till then. Combine this with the fact that they almost always spawn in diverse and balanced groups (with the exception of the Avicara archer groups in Mineral Springs), and you have a winning monster combination.

Still, Throw Dirt works well against the warriors, and the archers fall fairly quickly if you don't die to the ignite arrow spam.

Xiux X

24-06-2005, 03:26

I just feel that since they're stronger than other monsters of the same level, at least make them drop better items than they do now....

Buddah

24-06-2005, 03:34

You know what? You should have seen the insane numbers before in one of the early BWE's....it's what prompted this little story: The Great Tengu Turkey Hunt (http://www.gwonline.net/article.php?artid=35&action=part1)! Read and laugh! :wink2:
I still avoid that area because of bad memories caused by the horde that set up camp there. Whole parties of level 20's drug down by numbers.

I just feel that since they're stronger than other monsters of the same level, at least make them drop better items than they do now....
I wouldn't mind it. Doesn't even need to be a much higher chance of a better drops.

Hurin66

24-06-2005, 04:08

Then wait till you meet The Avicara Muhahahahahahahhahahahahahahah :D

Woot go Giant Chickens!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :surprise:

Xiux X

27-06-2005, 10:54

the wierd thing is that I have a really easy time with avicara, but get kicked around with the tengus.... I go out with the same henches and number of them in both kryta and the southern shiverpeaks, but the lower-level tengus keep giving me a hard time. I think it might be because the tengus tend to carry around a mesmer or two, and the avicaras don't. (I'm a w/mo, so mesmer monsters royally own me)

wind

27-06-2005, 12:12

I have not noticed anything overpowering about them and thats using henchies with a character approximately the same level.

It's hard sometimes to actually figure out where this game is hard or easy.

For instance I arrived in Amnoon with a level 16 E/Me and made it to Seekers Passage with only 1 death using the lvl 17 henchies. Started to think ... "well that was too easy" all things concidered.

Then mapped back to Amnoon and joined a PUG for some variety. It took 5 tries, complete party meltdowns, to make it to the first portal.

:scratch:

roguebanshee

27-06-2005, 17:22

It just sounds like Tengu & Avicara are the counters to whatever builds and playstyle you're using.

My first trip into Mineral Springs had me at -45% to -60% most of the time. Then I figured out how to tackle them and my next trip (with the same character) I went from -15% DP (from the Summit ambush outside Granite) to +6% Morale.

Unnamed

26-02-2006, 12:59

any group with a bonder is pretty much sorted vs even the nastiest avicari mobs in mineral (you can even go there with henchies who seem to do bugger all damage and eventually kill everyone!). Guess the same could be true of the tengu but you don't seem to have bonders at level 11 or so when most people seem to reach Kryta these days. They are certainly a pain to fight - bit like those ruddy bog scale frost thingies (not the blighters!) - personally I always let the Ettins carve them up first in Nebo Terrace - brute force seems the most effective approach.

Longasc

26-02-2006, 13:05

The fact that you have to take care and it becomes troublesome if you want to solo more than 4 Tengu does not mean that they are overpowered.

Against a full team, they are even less dangerous.

MUCH MORE mobs should be like Tengu. They are quite doable, but nothing you can do with closed eyes and hands tied behind the back.

Overpowered... - I would rather say player skill "underpowered" if they are more than a challenge...

sandbenders

26-02-2006, 15:27

Out of Beetletum and in Bergen Hot Spings, all dies!
Minion Master FTW!

Killer of good

26-02-2006, 15:38

Have a Shocking bow,axe,sword,hammer and a air ele and those birds are dead. They sure don't like lighting did alot more dmg with a shocking hammer then a fire hammer to the tengu warriors.

The Boz

26-02-2006, 16:08

Congratulations, Unnamed, your attempt at Superior Thread Necromancy was successful!
Killer has it right, Tengu and Avicara don't like Lightning for some reason.

There are plenty of critters in the game that are overpowered for their level. Bandit Firestarters in pre-searing, for example, are level one. And one or two firestarters do much more damage to me than three or four level three Bnadit Blood Sworn. The Skale Brood (level 4) kills me off quickly, even though the level 5 River Drake is no challenge. (Two examples from pre-searing since I've been working on a new ranger recently)

But it's just a matter of determining what the monsters' strengths are and countering them.

BodomSaint

26-02-2006, 17:44

I love those Ninja Chickens :grin:

And i don't think they're overpowered, they're challenging sometimes but never unfiar ;)

Zero Tolerance

26-02-2006, 17:48

I do not think that ninja chickens are overpowered, but I do remember our first encounters. And that was evil. The things they did to my sweet ele were quite hardcore compared to anything before that.

I think everyone can agree that they are really well planned monster. The one that really offers a challenge, and the one that will remain a challenge forever for many players.

8 characters later, I don't have problems with Tengu. But memory remains, it was a hard step to make in PvE for me, to learn to deal with them. I remember I was bricking it about Mursaat as well, but they dissapointed me big time.

And I also think more monsters should be like Tengu. It would definitely promote thinking among players, and this in effect would help my well-being :). I'm very allergic to idiots.

Icy Spicy

26-02-2006, 18:42

These things are ridiculous. Using henchmen...

first of all, you are talking about tengu in kytar, which is nothing compair to the lvl 24 birds at the end game...

your biggest mistake is taking henchie, i never got killed by them in the kryta area

Katrell

26-02-2006, 19:05

I can easily kill a group of 4-5 with henchies. The problem I find is that they are often set up in a way such that you pull one group and invariably the tanks pull aggro from the next ad infinitum.

Ubermancer

27-02-2006, 06:20

Yeah, I am pretty sure that Tengu could be more powerful.

It seems to me that giving them Spectral Ownage would greatly increase their power.

Zaxares

27-02-2006, 12:54

Yeah, I am pretty sure that Tengu could be more powerful.

It seems to me that giving them Spectral Ownage would greatly increase their power.

And Fingers of Chaos. That are specially modified so they drain energy when they hit mesmers.

milias

27-02-2006, 20:12

The Avicara are incredibly easy...with a good team. The Tengu can even pose some problems for a good team...

I can solo Avicara Braves/Fierces with my warrior. Doubt I'll be able to do that with Tengu Wilds thrown in...

roguebanshee

27-02-2006, 22:31

I can solo Avicara Braves/Fierces with my warrior. Doubt I'll be able to do that with Tengu Wilds thrown in...
Well, you could probably solo the Warrior & Ranger Tengu too if you didn't have to fight Mesmers at the same time. Don't judge the Avicara solely on their hitters, they have annoying spell casters too.

meatloafman

27-02-2006, 23:06

i quite enjoy fighting them to get a skill cap in mineral springs and stuff. they pose a very good challenge like another human team in pvp can. if ur team sint up for it then u wont be able to do anythign against them.

dragslayer

27-02-2006, 23:06

i use my i-monk on the archers... dual shot+SoJ=total ownage and dead chickens =D

Pan Sola

28-02-2006, 00:31

Could Tengu possibly be any more overpowered?

What if they start having lv5 pets and use "I Will Avenge You!"?

d-:

Melajo

28-02-2006, 01:05

I don't think Tengu can properly vocalize "I will avenge you!" correctly. They might end up uttering something else and cause everyone to explode somehow.

defrule

28-02-2006, 02:33

Tengu are average, Avicara are the overpowered ones. Right when you zone into Mineral Springs there is a large group waiting for you. Something like 4 braves and 4 fierce. The braves are ok but the fierce, they spike you.

ciprialex

02-03-2006, 14:04

i find both tengu/avicara rather easy to solofarm , using a warrior riposte/stance build.