I never said Ledger's Joker was "not something you associate with the Joker from the comics".

"but none of it screams 'JOKER' to me. Like Jack pulling a ridiculously long pistol out of his pants and shooting down the Batwing. Those kind of moments that really live up to the name "Joker"."

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Well I have to go read Batman #1 again, but Nicholson's is definitely closer to that original concept than Ledger's.

No, he's not. I'll be here waiting for you to prove otherwise though.

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The same with Nicholson.

I'm still waiting to hear the Batman #1 inspiration he has.

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But Ledger is much more faithful to the later comics.

Is faithful to many eras of the comics. That's the beauty of his interpretation of the character. There's a good mix in there.

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Smilex kills you, just like how Joker used venom that left a permanent grin on your corpse in the comic.

Yes, but he didn't announce it as a death threat, but as a great product that he was giving away. That's the major difference. Joker in Batman #1 was cut throat in saying out right he was intending to murder people, like Heath's Joker did.

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Well if you want to get hung up on specific details, Ledger merely made general threats "People will die" "I will blow up a hospital" and not specific threats against specific individuals like in the comic.

Yes but that doesn't negate the point you keep dodging. He made his announcements in Batman #1 as murder announcements just like Heath's did. Jack did not.

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Did they use the classic design for the Joker card, though?

You're really reaching now. What difference does it make what design was on the cards? They were Joker cards. He used Joker cards the same way he did in Batman #1.

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No, there's plenty more. I have to get a hold of Batman #1 again, though (which I have read before). Off the top of my head: Joker's look

His look was no different to any of his others. Same design, different artists.

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grinning after death

No different to a million other Joker stories.

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using venom, the smile on victim's faces

No different to a million other Joker stories.

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talking to corpses......

No different to a million other Joker stories. He even did that in The Killing Joke, too.

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That's a painted on grin..... and no Joker venom, but ok, I see your point.

Yes, leaving dead victims with a smile is leaving dead victims with a smile.

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I'm sure there are in this 70+ year history. There's Harley Quinn, although she was after Batman '89.

Harley wasn't someone he took a fancy to. He manipulated and used her in Arkham to help him escape. She fell for him and became obsessed with him.

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But I always thought Alicia inspired Harley Quinn.

Paul Dini created Harley Quinn and he never ever mentioned Alicia or anything from Burton's Batman as an inspiration for her. The two characters couldn't be more different.

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That's a hard task

Since you called Joker a well known ladies man I thought you'd find it easy.

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but there's the aforementioned Harley Quinn

Harley doesn't count as we've already established.

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and:

That's about as valid to Joker's persona as this is to Batman's:

I asked you to name three INFAMOUS Joker stories where this was a key trait since you claimed Joker is a notorious ladies man. You give me some obscure Brave and the Bold story panel.

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Thanks to GothamAlleys yet again:

Really? You're using a one off campy Batman comic from the 60's as your example that the Joker sees himself as an artist? Do you consider the Rainbow Batman costumes I posted above a key trait to Batman's character, too? The campy comics did one off silly gimmicky stuff like that all the time with the villains. Do you think a key trait to the Penguin is being a pirate?

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I'm saying it sets up the big psychological payoff, rather than just be a plot device.

Ok two things:

1. There is no big psychological payoff. It leads to a scene where Batman beats up the Joker for killing his parents. No big psychological payoff there. It was added in last minute by Burton during the writers strike.

2. If you consider the death of Batman's parents, the entire foundation of him being Batman, as a plot device, then you must not know Batman well at all. It weighs heavily on Bruce's arc in Batman Begins.

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"Sometimes I remember it one way. Sometimes another. If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!"