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On Feb 22, 5:38 am, "osp" <> wrote:
> hi every one viewing this post
> I guess i am having a grand
> start learning c++...where do i get good prolems that are not as tough
> as the acm problems ? please HELP ...

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On 22 Feb 2007 02:38:17 -0800, "osp" <> wrote:
>hi every one viewing this post
> I guess i am having a grand
>start learning c++...where do i get good prolems that are not as tough
>as the acm problems ? please HELP ...
Look at the percentages on the acm problems, the higher the
percentages the easier the problem.

rossum wrote:
> On 22 Feb 2007 02:38:17 -0800, "osp" <> wrote:
>
>> hi every one viewing this post
>> I guess i am having a grand
>> start learning c++...where do i get good prolems that are not as tough
>> as the acm problems ? please HELP ...
> Look at the percentages on the acm problems, the higher the
> percentages the easier the problem.
>
> rossum
>

On Feb 22, 3:02 pm, rossum <> wrote:
> On 22 Feb 2007 02:38:17 -0800, "osp" <> wrote:
>
> >hi every one viewing this post
> > I guess i am having a grand
> >start learning c++...where do i get good prolems that are not as tough
> >as the acm problems ? please HELP ...
>
> Look at the percentages on the acm problems, the higher the
> percentages the easier the problem.
>
> rossum
I like the idea behind the acm challenge: it is a fun way to learn how
to program. But the solutions? Horrible - they use C-code such as
printf instead of streams for example. That is NOT the way to write C+
+ code and it is not the way to teach it.

On 23 Feb 2007 01:23:29 -0800, "peter koch" <>
wrote:
>On Feb 22, 3:02 pm, rossum <> wrote:
>> On 22 Feb 2007 02:38:17 -0800, "osp" <> wrote:
>>
>> >hi every one viewing this post
>> > I guess i am having a grand
>> >start learning c++...where do i get good prolems that are not as tough
>> >as the acm problems ? please HELP ...
>>
>> Look at the percentages on the acm problems, the higher the
>> percentages the easier the problem.
>>
>> rossum
>I like the idea behind the acm challenge: it is a fun way to learn how
>to program. But the solutions? Horrible - they use C-code such as
>printf instead of streams for example. That is NOT the way to write C+
>+ code and it is not the way to teach it.

I've participated in the ACM challenge in college (a long time ago!). The
program tend to reward correct, but unmaintainable, coding. One-shot,
throwaway design is the way to win.

Of course, as long as one understands that and doesn't carry it into their
professional career, then a fun time can be had by all!

On 23 Feb., 16:05, Dave Rahardja
<> wrote:
> On 23 Feb 2007 01:23:29 -0800, "peter koch" <>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Feb 22, 3:02 pm, rossum <> wrote:
> >> On 22 Feb 2007 02:38:17 -0800, "osp" <> wrote:
>
> >> >hi every one viewing this post
> >> > I guess i am having a grand
> >> >start learning c++...where do i get good prolems that are not as tough
> >> >as the acm problems ? please HELP ...
>
> >> Look at the percentages on the acm problems, the higher the
> >> percentages the easier the problem.
>
> >> rossum
> >I like the idea behind the acm challenge: it is a fun way to learn how
> >to program. But the solutions? Horrible - they use C-code such as
> >printf instead of streams for example. That is NOT the way to write C+
> >+ code and it is not the way to teach it.
>
> I've participated in the ACM challenge in college (a long time ago!). The
> program tend to reward correct, but unmaintainable, coding. One-shot,
> throwaway design is the way to win.

But even if that is the case, I see no reason why your "write-once"
code could not be C++. As an example, there is no reason to use the
printf family when you have streams (and any good C++ course should
teach streams, not printf - at least not in the beginning).

/Peter
>
> Of course, as long as one understands that and doesn't carry it into their
> professional career, then a fun time can be had by all!

peter koch wrote:
>
> I like the idea behind the acm challenge: it is a fun way to learn how
> to program. But the solutions? Horrible - they use C-code such as
> printf instead of streams for example. That is NOT the way to write
> C++ code and it is not the way to teach it.

I want to say, that you can throw away whole C++ stdlib ( and can start with
ugly std::auto_ptr ), but your code will be C++ correct. C++ is not library.

And the overloaded "operator <<" you really need only for templated
functions, when you do not know what kind of data will be outputed at each
instance or in which stream. Else the "printf" is often better.

Grizlyk wrote:
> peter koch wrote:
>>
>> I like the idea behind the acm challenge: it is a fun way to learn
>> how to program. But the solutions? Horrible - they use C-code such as
>> printf instead of streams for example. That is NOT the way to write
>> C++ code and it is not the way to teach it.
>
> I want to say, that you can throw away whole C++ stdlib ( and can
> start with ugly std::auto_ptr ), but your code will be C++ correct.
> C++ is not library.

Learning how to use language without learning good practices of using
the library is like learning to dance without a partner. One should
expect big difficulties in the real world, in a real dance hall.
> And the overloaded "operator <<" you really need only for templated
> functions, when you do not know what kind of data will be outputed at
> each instance or in which stream. Else the "printf" is often better.

Please show me how you can output a class object using printf. I dare
you.
> Some programmers rare use iostreams in practical case (and printf
> also) beacause in theirs systems console-like stream output is
> useless thing in the world.

I am guessing you've not one of those...

V
--
Please remove capital 'A's when replying by e-mail
I do not respond to top-posted replies, please don't ask

Victor Bazarov wrote:
>>
>> I want to say, that you can throw away whole C++ stdlib ( and can
>> start with ugly std::auto_ptr ), but your code will be C++ correct.
>> C++ is not library.
>
> Learning how to use language without learning good practices of using
> the library is like learning to dance without a partner. One should
> expect big difficulties in the real world, in a real dance hall.

You setup "good practice" without any provements by your habits only. Today
C++ stdlib is so large, that no need to use it completely. Not each ordinary
man can study any complex library (as C++ stdlib) completely and the
knowledge is no need to him in his practical examples.

I hope you do not mean to learn implementation of the std library as "good
practice"? One can say, that description of interface of any good library
must be enough to use it. Any good library must be understandable "on fly -
read, used and forget". Using any good library must not be obstacle and must
not require special enforces.

I think C++ has a weak point - in C++ is hard to use already defined classes
(and stdlib also) in "on fly" manner, because C++ has no extra information
placed in class declaration for design purpose, to be bridge for design
tools. I think using any library is kind of design work.

I want to write about the weak point (at nearest weeks/months) in my page http://grizlyk1.narod.ru/cpp_new .
>> And the overloaded "operator <<" you really need only for templated
>> functions, when you do not know what kind of data will be outputed at
>> each instance or in which stream. Else the "printf" is often better.
>
> Please show me how you can output a class object using printf. I dare
> you.

You no need to dare. Originally, we are speaking about data that can be
printed by "printf" (probably we are speaking avout POD data), so you can
"output a class object" exactly as if you write the own "operator <<" for
the class, but instead of writing trivial members into ostream, printf them.

I agree, that printf format string is not easy to learn, but any good
on-line help can help you to write correct format string. In any case, make
formatted output with the help of ostream is not easy also.
>> Some programmers rare use iostreams in practical case (and printf
>> also) beacause in theirs systems console-like stream output is
>> useless thing in the world.
>
> I am guessing you've not one of those...

It is hard to me to understand your suspicions, but i rare use streams in
practical cases - i have no devices to be able to display the streams or to
get input from them.

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