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Topic: Has this been done before? (Read 33312 times)

I really hate linear for typing on my SteelSeries 7G, but that's merely because of the huge key travel, so I figured out a way to decrease the travel and dampen the bottoming-out sound at the same time and I can't stress enough how much different (useable) the 7G now feels, very solid and 'industrial' if you like.

I also did this with my Compaq 11800 (thanks webwit!) and it feels soooo much less plastic now, I wonder why nobody here thought of doing this before (I'm aware of). I bought a couple of hundred nbr70 rubber o-rings size 5 x 2 mm. Perhaps 5 x 1,5 mm would have been better but that's just a matter of taste.

Both keyboards now feel like those laptop keyboards, but with mechanical switches

Hmm, I just emulated this by cutting a similar o-gasket* in half. It certainly did deaden the sound of the bottoming out, but I was not thrilled with the reduction in key travel. If anything it caused me to bottom out more often and thus make even more noise lol. Still, the concept has merit, so it's just a matter of finding something thin enough... or alternatively modifying the keys so that the cross support leading to the mounting tube is notched out allowing the ring to dampen the bottoming out, but at the same time not cut down on key travel.

*(I just made that name up... I have no clue what it's really called, or even when/where they came from, but they're similar to two o-rings stacked on top of each other with a thin riser tube between them.)

Hmm, I just emulated this by cutting a similar o-gasket* in half. It certainly did deaden the sound of the bottoming out, but I was not thrilled with the reduction in key travel. If anything it caused me to bottom out more often and thus make even more noise lol. Still, the concept has merit, so it's just a matter of finding something thin enough... or alternatively modifying the keys so that the cross support leading to the mounting tube is notched out allowing the ring to dampen the bottoming out, but at the same time not cut down on key travel.

*(I just made that name up... I have no clue what it's really called, or even when/where they came from, but they're similar to two o-rings stacked on top of each other with a thin riser tube between them.)

what kind of board do you have? On my endurapro (bs switches) i bought very thin and tiny washers from my local hardware store. The key travel was impacted only minimally (I basically didnt notice it; i bottom out anyway when i type no matter what i use). But side by side with an unmodded key, the key travel difference was like less than a millimeter.

After some 'realworld' tests on the Compaq 11800, I'm convinced 2 mm is too thick, o-rings should have been 1,5 mm or even 1,25... Bottoming out still sounds plastic, just better plastic. lol

I STAND CORRECTEDAfter some time and getting used to it, I really, realy like this 'new' short travel (Compaq 11800); I'm by no means a touch typist and bottom out all the time (sorry). Can't wait to try this mod on the Filco FKBN104M/EB. I might order the 5x1.5 mm o-rings later, just for the fun of it.

what kind of board do you have? On my endurapro (bs switches) i bought very thin and tiny washers from my local hardware store. The key travel was impacted only minimally (I basically didnt notice it; i bottom out anyway when i type no matter what i use). But side by side with an unmodded key, the key travel difference was like less than a millimeter.

The o-rings are prolly thicker than what I used tho.

I have the Kinesis Advantage, so I'm using the same MX type switches that hotswank is (albeit brown and not black). A washer type affixed in some manner might do the trick. I'm not sure how much dampening a super thin piece of rubber can offer though. Theoretically the softer the landing, the more dampened the sound should be. It's worth a test though, and I'll be on the lookout the next time I'm at the hardware store.

*(I just made that name up... I have no clue what it's really called, or even when/where they came from, but they're similar to two o-rings stacked on top of each other with a thin riser tube between them.)

Lmao... blame this on it being 3AM while I was raiding the workshop. The term I was looking for was 'grommet'. I still don't remember what they were bought for, but whatever.

This kind of mod would make the topre a lot quieter ... and maybe in the process take away the feeling ...

I don't bottom out the cherry browns, I don't know how useful it would be, but interesting and easy.

And, to answer your question: yes, of course it has been done before. You didn't think you were one of the lucky few who had at least one COMPLETELY original idea during their life, didn't you? That was the guy who put the ring around his _you_know_what_ ...

However, i just didnt like the key feel BUT i did leave the rings on every oversized/non letter key and it has definitely helped w/ the obnoxious noise this keyboard makes. Unfortunately it didnt remove the annoying rattle sound the space bar makes when it pops back up.

The most annoying keys for me were space, and backspace which are significantly quiter now so it's a nice improvement.

On a variation of this idea, I've been thinking about strips of rubber mat between the key rows. That might be easier to apply. If I read the MX datasheet correctly, one would need a thickness of about 8.5 mm for an effect on the last 1.5 mm of travel.

Logged

Hardware in signatures clutters Google search results. There should be a field in the profile for that (again).

This message was probably typed on a vintage G80-3000 with blues. Double-shots, baby.

What makes you sure, that the "+"-bracket is fully into the cap? Theoretically the Switch needs less pressure to move down than the cap to be pressed onto the bracket. So I assume, that if you press a key modified with a ring it is still nearly bottomed out as usual because the cap is not fully mounted.

Of course that applies only if the "+"-shaft is as long as the "+"-hole in the cap or at least as much longer as the ring is thick.

so has anyone found any sort of o-ring that dampens the noise but also doesn't mess with the key travel too much?

i got the smallest o-rings from the local Home Depot and though i'm loving the sound of purely the cherry blues and not the bottoming out.. the slightly shortened key travel is just enough to bug me that i took it out

Here are fantastic and cheap 008 o-rings, at 50A durometer (softer, thus much better than the standard 70-90 durometer ones).http://www.mcmaster.com/#as568a-o-ringsDrill down to AS568A size 008 round 50A durometer, they are $9.17 per 125 pack. McMaster-Carr part number is 2418T114.Better deal than the 40A durometer ones I acquired earlier.

Btw with metric parts (Europe, etc) I would recommend o-rings with 5mm inside diameter, 1.5mm thickness. You could try 1mm thickness but it might be too thin to have any effect. YMMV. There is variation from keycap to keycap sometimes, so it's good to have a few different sized o-rings or washers to handle those cases anyway.

Btw with metric parts (Europe, etc) I would recommend o-rings with 5mm inside diameter, 1.5mm thickness. You could try 1mm thickness but it might be too thin to have any effect. YMMV. There is variation from keycap to keycap sometimes, so it's good to have a few different sized o-rings or washers to handle those cases anyway.

@ Sordna ... I'm still looking into O-Rings. What are you using now? What's your favourite? (in metric)

Just did a partial O-ring mod on a Kinesis Contoured (it takes a while) and so far it's AWESOME!!! I am thrilled. I don't bottom out much, but when I do, is now quiet, soft, and it is far more pleasant. It also quiets the upstroke as well. It's what I've always wanted, but didn't know it.

Fortunately I bought #250 O-rings so I can do more than just my daily driver

Interesting. I wouldn't have guessed the various durometers would make a key feel very different. I would have thought having any O-ring would be almost the entire effect. This is definitely a Cherry MX switch keyboard UPGRADE. I got plenty of O-rings (#250), they're going on all the Kinesis mod boards I have. I suggest everyone try this, it's very dramatic, the quieter downstroke/upstroke, and soft landing. Takes away 'Pinnngg!!' and makes the feel more solid. Thanks for doing the R+D! [ Guests cannot view attachments ] 21861[/ATTACH]

The Kinesis Advantage O-rings with 2 types of keys, on left white doubleshots, on right black singleshots. Half the white and black keys with O-rings, half without so can compare all 4 different feels. Then switch all keys to the best feel. [ Guests cannot view attachments ] 21969[/ATTACH]

EDIT---The key feel, best to worst on a Kinesis Contoured:Doubleshot O-rings better than singleshot O-rings better than doubleshots better than singleshots. Doubleshot O-rings and singleshot O-rings are almost the same, the doubleshots are slightly quieter, smoother, cleaner looking due to no decals. No surprises here.

[ Guests cannot view attachments ] 22203[/ATTACH] [ Guests cannot view attachments ] 21865[/ATTACH]http://www.mcmaster.com/#as568a-o-rings/=dkwb0iSelect AS568A size 008 round 50A durometer Soft Buna-N O-rings $9.17 per 125 pack. Or just enter part number #2418T114 in their search field. Order page with noted areas: [ Guests cannot view attachments ] 23955[/ATTACH]You will pay shipping that they don't quote you at the time of order. It was about $5 from Los Angeles to San Francisco for 2 packages.

I'm transferring this post from a different thread since this wiki here should be the source for o-ring information:

Quote from: nikonf5;412945

I have yet to see whether the O-rings from sordna's mod feel any different as McMaster Carr wont ship to Canada and oringsusa costs too much to ship here even if I knew the part#.sordna uses silicone duro 50 but WASD hasnt specified anything except industrial nitrile rubber and although the duro isnt mentioned, I can tell you from pinching them that they aint soft at all.

The wasdkeyboards o-rings are the same as the mcmaster ones (part number 2418T114) I was recommending. They are 50-durometer hardness.They are considered soft actually, noticeably softer than the standard 70-90 durometer o-rings.

The red silicon ones that can be seen in some photos I posted came from oringsusa.com and are 40 durometer (slightly softer than the mcmaster/wasdkeyboards ones) but still firmer than the firm (gray) landing pads.

I've tried all of the following, here's how I rank them:

#1: 40-durometer red silicon o-rings, feel great and are easier to find when they fall on a black keyboard. They are the easiest to install too.#2: 50-durometer black rubber o-rings from wasdkeyboards/mcMaster Carr: they feel almost the same as #1, but are a bit harder#3: Firm (gray) landing pads (slightly mushy, I estimate their Shore A durometer as 30)#4: Dental bands (feel ok but hard to find the right size, they are not very uniform, and don't last very long)#5: 70-durometer black rubber o-rings (too hard for my taste, and the least sound-dampening)#6: Black soft landing pads (too soft/mushy for my taste, I estimate their durometer as 20)

I usually recommend #2 because they are easier to order, and available in 2 different places. For #1 you have to call oringsusa.com to order over the phone (although they seem to have switched to an online ticketing system now), and order enough to cover the minimum order amount: 250 o-rings / $25 before shipping. Hmm, I should mention this to wasdkeyboards, they can get a good deal if they order a big quantity to resell.

If using the #1 or #2 o-ring choices above (roughly 4.47mm x 1.7mm, or 5mm x 1.5mm), should I place them also on the mounts going over stabilizers (spacebar, Shift, Enter...)?

Thanks.

You don't need to, but you can try and see. Actually, at least on my Poker which has similar stabilizers, the stabilized keys feel like they are already dampened, so I put o-rings on all of the Poker's keys except the stabilized keys, and it feels very nicely uniform this way!

wasdkeyboards.com carries two kinds of o-rings now, black 50A and the new softer pink 40A durometer, which feel just like the rust-color silicon ones I posted about in the past. Here's a comparison photo:

[ Guests cannot view attachments ] 31555[/ATTACH]

The pink o-rings are probably the best o-rings you can get, and with shipping less than $2.50 for international destinations, I think it solves the issue for the European folks who couldn't find soft o-rings in Europe.