As i am a fairly green referee I just wanted to clarify a possible tool to help control a game.

The rules state that once a player has accumulated 5 personal fouls he is fouled out of the game and must immediately leave the pitch.

now in the case where a player gives the referee abuse over a call, i would call an unsportsmanlike for 1-3 minutes depending on severity.

now I've refereed players that don't seem to get the hint. the other options are exclusion for these players (which requires a lot of paperwork) or banishment. Though both these decisions are fairly cut and dry.

A couple troubles I find with these punishments.-A 3 minutes penalty to getting kicked out of the game is a considerable jump.-There is also the fact that if it is a goalie, you can't directly send them off for personals, so the message doesn't seem to get through quite as well. And if i go straight to banishing a teams goalie after a few comments, that's a massive disadvantage for a team just for what could be a slip of the tongue (not my problem, but It's a big decision)-coupled with the fact that if a goalie repeatedly offends, the poor in home goes off for a possible 15 minutes.

So my thought was that if someone had a comment which is squarely in that grey area of frustration mixed with an insult which might be directed at me or at themselves.

What is the view of a referee award 3 1 minute personals. in a effort to speed up their removal from the game whilst not actively kicking them off.If that doesn't work then they will be removed anyway with the awarding of two further personals.

First bit I wrote was wrong..... Rule 4747.4 The organizers of a tournament or a competition may play the Nominated Defender Rule, if they feel it appropriate for some or all of the games in that tournament or competition:i) Before the commencement of the game, the Head Coach shall nominate a starting longstick of his squad to be the Nominated Defender.ii) Where a goalkeeper commits a time-serving penalty, the Nominated Defender shall serve the suspension. The penalty shall be charged against the goalkeeper’s name.iii) Rule 47.4 ii) shall not apply if the goalkeeper has committed an expulsion foul or if the penalty causes the goalkeeper to “foul out.”iv) If the Nominated Defender is not on the field of play to serve the suspension, the suspension shall be inflicted upon another longstick defender, who was on the field of play when the goalkeeper committed his foul(s).v) If both teams have two goalkeepers dressed, the Nominated Defender rule will not be used. If one team has two goalkeepers and the other has not, both teams shall have the option of using the Nominated Defender rule.

I'd be unlikely to give a 3 minute foul for unsportsmanlike comments, if there was enough said to be worthy of that, you could flag repeatedly as they are being abusive (which will of course raise the ire but encourage their teammates to assist you), in the same way that two slashes are 2 separate penalties rather than a penalty of twice the length.

As for comments that may be self directed, that is a grey area and you could only tell by getting far too close to the action. I tend to run games slightly differently depending on occasion, a BUCS game I'd let most words go unless it was a show game, but consider the volume and context, though I often give a warning on first hearing. Anywhere with spectators or juniors around I hold a much lower language tolerance

The only time he takes his foot out of his mouth, is to put the other one in!

But the problem is, a 3 minute should discourage, and i've seen where it hasn't so what do we do after that? banish them? If i banish one guy for continued abuse, then if someone else does the same i have to banish them. I'm not looking to banish half a team! which is why i'm not keen on pulling it out.

but if i were to hear 3 comments from one guy in the same sentence of abuse (towards me), why shouldn't i call 3 1 mins? the player will understand he's closer to fouling out, the team will serve 3 minutes instead of 15 for one players idiocy.

it seems like a halfway punishment between them being kicked out and a personal. (though I'd only use it on insults to the ref)

I have given a minute for unsportsmanlike before and behaviour has continued so i gave a second minute. It seemed to work. Team mates usually will step in at this point. It is quite concievable though that if the player doesnt get the hint that a word with the coach/captain would help at this point. If a player insists on continuing unacceptable behaviour then why as a ref should you not coninue to throw flags?

I was once involved in the fouling out of a player in the space of about 30 seconds, and that was at Bluesfest (you know, the fun tournament)

Flagged for a slash; flagged for the back chat; flagged for the comment following the second flag; then the CBO flagged him for what he said about the ref (me) as he hit the bench; then CBO flagged him again for what he said in response to the fourth flag.

Some players just don't know when to wind it in!

The opinions expressed herein are those of the author and do not necessarily represent Reading Wildcats Lacrosse Club, SEMLA or, indeed, anybody else......but that doesn't mean that it's not what they're all thinking!

Talk to the Captains, tell them that you are not going to put up with abuse like that. If they cannot calm their players down then banish or expel as necessary. Most time you can calm things down, sometimes you can't.

I do not think twisting the rules to suit is a good idea although.

I was once confronted by a very irate play who I flagged for a slash who got right in my face ranting and raving for which he got another flag, I walked away, he followed me, then he decided to tell me F*ck off, you F*cking fat c*nt, for which I gave him 3 more single flags, fouling him out of the game. However I made each of them one minute because his team were trying to calm him down, but he was just not having any! At the time it seemed the right thing to do, afterwards I realised that as he was being the aggressor I should have expelled him instead.

In my mind if one player goes psycho it is no reason to punish the whole team.