Somali Pirates

Does this chap anybody else's tail as badly as it does mine? I know it's a big ocean out there, but how hard would it be to station some multi-national AC-130 gunships on a racetrack pattern at about 10,000 feet and light up anything that didn't squawk 'I'm your buddy.' A few smoking holes in the water might make our less civilized mariner adventurers think thrice about it. Or maybe the Saudis would float a dummy ship that's really armed to the teeth and take care of it that way. Maybe it's just cheaper to pay the ransom and look the other way. Seems to work for the UAW.

Pirates are cool.... Anyway, that tanker was bigger than an aircraft carrier, with a crew of only 25, most of them Thai nationals, probably making whatever minimum wage is in that part of the world. So that's why a small gang in a speedboat can take over a tanker. .... And heck, in Somalia, the pirates are the entrepeneurs with the gumption and imagination to go out and make some money and not wait for a UN shipment of food. ..... Pirates or Saudi oil princes? I'm for the pirates.

Maybe (thanks to the Bushies) we are still in the wrong war. Instead of pursuing terrorists, we have several thousand soldiers tied up in Iraq. Bin Laden has got to be loving this. he sits in some cave giving out orders and we are trying to defeat one of his worst enemies for him...Iraq.

So what's the right war? Is it the war on ozone killing CFCs? Is it the war on energy companies who refuse to accept alternative energy sources? Is it the war against those fundamentalist christians who believe that life is sacred at the point of conception? Do you agree with Obama that we should shrink the military, stop spending money on defense, and pretty much just curl up in a ball while the entire muslim world runs right over us?

You know what Bin Laden loves? A weak military leader. We just hired one. Unless Obama grows a pair and figures out that the world is not a nice place and we can't play fair with them any longer (I might as well wish for that 67 Shelby I've always wanted to be in my driveway after Santa delivers it) we are going to see a lot more of this stuff.

Ok, let me open up a can here. If we can agree that there is right and wrong, good and bad, yes and no, than that pretty much precludes that there is always some grey area, or wiggle room. Would we agree that a lawless hellhole such as Somalia is currently a "bad" place? If so, (and I'm not trying to be Abram negotiating for sparing Sodom for 40 righteous souls...), how about some good folks wipe out the bad folks, colonize the place, subjugate the lawless masses by force, establish some sort of rule of law, use whatever natural resources are there and introduce a new, productive country to the League of Nations. How 'bout them apples?

As much as I support my bretheren serving currently, we all know that the purpose of our military is to break things and hurt people, not to build nations. That's a diplomat's job.

This is WAY politically incorrect, but I don't think we'd have what we know as Western Civilization if it was up to us to do it today.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
So what's the right war? It was never Iraq and never will be. It should have been Afghanistan and terrorism worldwide and still is. We wasted our manpower on a dictator we put into power instead of the Islamist terrorists.
Is it the war on ozone killing CFCs? A good start to correct some environmental problems.
Is it the war on energy companies who refuse to accept alternative energy sources? No. It is a war for the future of our planet for your children and mine. Alternative energy sources are a must. Not tomorrow, but today.
Is it the war against those fundamentalist christians who believe that life is sacred at the point of conception? No. It is the what the founding fathers believed in, a separation of church and state. Abortion is not a religious issue. It is a human rights issue and women should have the right to make a choice. If you think abortion is wrong, then don't have one.
Do you agree with Obama that we should shrink the military, stop spending money on defense, and pretty much just curl up in a ball while the entire muslim world runs right over us? No. But 8 years of what we got ain't getting us to where we need to be. Let's let other ideas and ideologies try to fix what has been broken. We need a very strong military and Obama agres with that. He just disagrees with what the direction of the last 8 years. As a Republican, I have been very dissapointed in the direction Bush has gone. I am ready for change and Obama had a better vision than McCain,

You know what Bin Laden loves? A weak military leader. We just hired one. He was not hired, he was elected by a majority of the voters in this country. Can you support him as our president and help this country move forward or are you going to continue to be stumbling block in the way of progress?

Unless Obama grows a pair He must have them, he certainly showed McCain who the country wants.

and figures out that the world is not a nice place and we can't play fair with them any longer (I might as well wish for that 67 Shelby I've always wanted to be in my driveway after Santa delivers it) we are going to see a lot more of this stuff. This is all on Bush's watch. You can't blame Obama yet. Rush L already tried to blame the economy on Obama...what an idiot. Bush should step down early and give the new government a chance.

Noble suggestion beemer, but it'll never work. There was one word that ruined the thought for you. Diplomat. Anytime politicians, whether they are US, UN, or otherwise get involved, we're screwed. They'd be arguing about borders, supply lines, economic systems, and probably the color of the flag. While I'm not a big fan of the scorched Earth scenario, sometimes I think that might actually be the best way to get some things done. Can we start with Washington, DC? Wouldn't it be nice to just hit the do over button on our political machine? Our military is the best in the world at doing their job if left alone to do it. They don't often have that luxury these days. There always seems to be some politician, excuse me, diplomat standing in their way. Don't cross the border into Syria to get those terrorists. Don't cross some arbitrary latitude line to chase down some bad guys. Don't use lethal force unless fired upon. Sheesh. Why don't we just give them all pillows and let them fight it out.

I think that since this oil tanker is as big as Kuwait and full of oil, it presents a good exit strategy for W to take over the tanker, liberate it of pirates, and put a "Mission Accomplished" sign on the bridge after the pirates have been sent to Gitmo or to Davy Jones' locker.

Wow! And I thought members of Congress were know-it-all blowhards when it comes to foreign policy! Those dolts don't have anything on the brain-trust at the RegisteredRep.com Advisor forum. You guys really do know everything! All you're missing is Putsy's two cents.

CreditOnion wrote:Maybe (thanks to the Bushies) we are still in the wrong war. Instead of pursuing terrorists, we have several thousand soldiers tied up in Iraq. Bin Laden has got to be loving this. he sits in some cave giving out orders and we are trying to defeat one of his worst enemies for him...Iraq.

Why don't you just fucking shut up. Everything is Bush's fault? Even pirates in Somalia. I bet you blame your short erections and lack of nooky on Bush too.
BTW: Bin Laden is dead.

iceco1d wrote:I agree with the pillows Spiff. This "war" was and is bullshit. Reporters riding along with our military convoys. Don't fire unless fired up. Blah blah eff'n blah. Why do we spend all this money on big ass bombs and jets if we aren't going to use them.

The next time we get in a "war" it should be just that. Level the enemy. Sorry, I don't want to come across as something I'm not, but war is war. WWII didn't have these bullshit rules. And I can GUARANTEE you, that if it were another country invading us, they wouldn't have those bullshit rules for our benefit. It would be chemical/biological, maybe even nuclear...whatever it took to wipe us out.

Ice, chill. The tide turned in Iraq when we STOPPED trying to waste everybody never mind the collateral damage and instead chose the diplomatic approach of wasting the really bad guys, helping the good guys and befriending the ones in the middle. You know who came up with that approach -- not the Ivy League diplomats at State but the gold ole U.S. Marines on the ground in Anbar Province. ... To me the great unsung story of the war was how high school educated, gung ho Marines from Texas and Alabama sat down one-on-one with Sunni tribesman and drank their tea and took off their damn boots to parlay.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:Let Davy have em. If we send them to Gitmo so namby pamby Dem will want to give them constitutional rights. We'd hate to resort to torturing a known terrorist. Arrrrr! I hear yah Spiff. Arrrrr![that's as "pirate" as I can get]

Hey, It's a Saudi owned boat. Maybe they can rustle up a dozen or so citizens to hijack a few Somali airliners (if there were such a thing) and crash them into the bridge of the boat. That way, when the boat sank, it would be Bush and Cheney's fault and a "Controlled Demolition".

babbling looney wrote:
Why don't you just fucking shut up. Everything is Bush's fault? Even pirates in Somalia. I think a lack of focus on Somalia goes back at least as far as Clinton. But we have not seen any action to this point to stop what is going on today. Perhaps if we weren't so busy in Iraq, we could be ready to deal with other "hot spots" that are arising today. I bet you blame your short erections and lack of nooky on Bush too. Thanks for the concern, but no problem in either area.
BTW: Bin Laden is dead. Got a body? Is Al Queda still active?

The pirates are heros in their country. Boomtowns are rising from the dust over there. Expensive cars, slow whiskey, and fast women are the order of the day. The more they steal the better equipped they become. At some point the Islamic fundies running other parts of the country will tire of not getting a taste and that will end it. It being either piracy or funamental Islamacism in Somolia. Who will win? Right now their ecomomy is measured by GDP- Gross Domestic Piracy. Living in a 700BC shithole or driving a new Benz? Hmm? Maybe these pirates are on to something?

BondGuy wrote:The pirates are heros in their country. Boomtowns are rising from the dust over there. Expensive cars, slow whiskey, and fast women are the order of the day. The more they steal the better equipped they become. At some point the Islamic fundies running other parts of the country will tire of not getting a taste and that will end it. It being either piracy or funamental Islamacism in Somolia. Who will win? Right now their ecomomy is measured by GDP- Gross Domestic Piracy. Living in a 700BC shithole or driving a new Benz? Hmm? Maybe these pirates are on to something?

I wonder if these pirates are selling limited partnerships... Could be a good non-correlating asset.

CreditOnion wrote:Abortion is not a religious issue. It is a human rights issue and women should have the right to make a choice. If you think abortion is wrong, then don't have one.

This is no different than saying "if you think killing your neighbor is wrong, don't kill yours, but of course if you want to murder your neighbor, that's your decision." It has nothing to do with religion, it's about morals.

It always amazes me that the same people who cry about making Terrorist prisoners wear embarrassing clothing, argue that it's okay to take a growing fetus out of a woman's body and kill it.

It always amazes me that the same people who cry about making Terrorist prisoners wear embarrassing clothing, argue that it's okay to take a growing fetus out of a woman's body and kill it.

I think orange makes a fine fashion statement. On the other hand there's that whole torture thing that I (and most of the world doesn't agree with). We should be a moral beacon to the world and torture of potential terrorists is something I question. I don't have the solution, but that can't be the best way to extract information.

It always amazes me that those that think that "it's not okay to take a fetus out of a woman's body and kill it" are okay with launching a unilateral invasion of a sovereign country and kill thousands of innocent civilians over WMD's that did not exist and hang a dictator that we put in power.

In what areas do you support right to life? When it concerns abortion or on a more global basis? WWJB.

UNDERMINDED wrote:So I dunno about everyone else, but i read the forums for advice, good ideas, and funny stories, NOT to debate right to life issues. Keep it to yourselves or message each other.

How much "advice, good ideas, and funny stories" are you going to get in a chat called "Somali Pirates"?

Arghhh...you wanna be a pirate matee???

Advice - buy a parrot
Good ideas - A good speed boat with some maching guns are necessary
Funny stories - did you hear the one about the pirate and the horse? the pirate looked at the horse with concern and asked...arghhh - why the long face?

Umm...what thousands of innocent civilians are you talking about? You make it sound like the Army runs around just shooting at anything that moves. Ideally I would believe that all life is sacred. Ideally, I would like God to be the one who destroys a place like Somalia and rebuilds it. Ideally, nobody ever has to die because of war. However, life isn't fair. And we don't live in an ideal world.

It always amazes me that those that think that "it's not okay to take a fetus out of a woman's body and kill it" are okay with launching a unilateral invasion of a sovereign country and kill thousands of innocent civilians over WMD's that did not exist and hang a dictator that we put in power.
In what areas do you support right to life? When it concerns abortion or on a more global basis? WWJB.I really hate it when people use that appallingly lame war analogy.The first and most important problem is the moral difference in intent. Those who kill innocent, unborn babies clearly do so intentionally. That is the exact result they intend and seek. This is the moral opposite of the intentions of those soldiers whose actions sometimes have the unintended and undesired consequence of killing innocent Iraqi civilians. Second is the sheer difference in magnitude between the two. According to the notoriously biased group Iraqi Body Count, as many as 97,239 civilian deaths have resulted from the invasion and occupation, including those caused
not simply by coalition military action, but also those caused directly by the Iraqi insurgency,
and those resulting from "excess crime" (the Iraqi Body Count project
claims that the Occupying Authority is responsible to prevent these
deaths under international law). Nor do they even attempt to draw any distinction between true innocent civilians and the insurgent combatants, most of whom intentionally and conveniently wear no uniforms. Needless to say the actual number of casualties is unknown and highly disputed.But lets not quibble. EVEN IF we accept this obviously inflated number AND attribute all these casualties to the evil Americans, and EVEN IF we convince ourselves that these evil soldiers INTENDED to kill all those Iraqis irrespective of whether or not they were combatants or innocents, we are left with this critical mathematical fact: we intentionally kill more unborn babies every 25 days than even this inflated estimate of total innocent Iraqi casualties in the more than 5 years since the Iraqi invasion. Finally, and just for the record since you seem ignorant of this minor detail, Saddam Hussein was only captured by our brave troops. He was tried, sentenced and executed entirely by his fellow Iraqis, not the US.

Idea: Nancy Pelosi, Diane Feinstein and Hillary are cruising off the coast of Somalia in a blinged out freighter. They're wearing nothing but thong bottoms and sensible shoes, and are discussing universal health care, abortion funding and gun control in their gentle, soothing tones. Pirates come over the rails, are struck blind by the sight, deaf by the noise, they drop their AKs and RPGs on the deck, and promise to cut their own nuts off if the ladies will just lead them back to the rail and let them jump.

Lots of problems solved. I'm in for 50 bucks to buy the freighter, who else?

2wheeledbeemer wrote:Idea: Nancy Pelosi, Diane Feinstein and Hillary are cruising off the coast of Somalia in a blinged out freighter. They're wearing nothing but thong bottoms and sensible shoes, and are discussing universal health care, abortion funding and gun control in their gentle, soothing tones. Pirates come over the rails, are struck blind by the sight, deaf by the noise, they drop their AKs and RPGs on the deck, and promise to cut their own nuts off if the ladies will just lead them back to the rail and let them jump.

Lots of problems solved. I'm in for 50 bucks to buy the freighter, who else?

Ron Paul wants to hire privateers - I figure guys who don't make it in the business can go do that. Got to be some good money in that!

As for the wrong war argument - People can hem and haw about the Iraq war being the wrong war. There were no weapons of mass destruction... Sadaam wasn't hurting anybody... blah, blah, blah.

Two weeks into being in country, we found 16,000 mortar shells with mustard gas. Spent the night guarding it, some guys in civvies showed up the next day, never heard anything else about it.

I spent thirteen months in that hot ass country. In addition to running knock and talk, cordon and search missions, mountain patrols, I was tasked with requisitioning money to rebuild parts of the country. My unit alone acquired $110 million to build wells, remove UXO and build schools.

So much good has been and is being done over there.

Someone said the purpose of the military is to break things and kill people. I don't agree. The purpose of the INFANTRY is to close with and destroy the enemy by means of fire and maneuverability. Their MAIN purpose is to hold territory. And that is what they are doing.

The majority of the people we arrested crossing the border to fight Americans were from various terrorist organizations. And generally not Iraqi.

You may disagree with how it started, but Iraq was becoming the battleground for battling terror. I think it's a great idea, but there was no way Bush could have said, "Hey ya'll, we're going to invade a sovereign country, and make it so that the people who are trained to fight terrorists actually get to fight the terrorists".

My buddies are going back over in four days. If something happens to any one of them, it will break my heart. But this is what they are trained for, and what they signed up for. I would much rather our soldiers make the sacrifice than my nine-year old daughter getting blown up in a school.

X2. You and yours have a level of courage I don't understand, and it should be celebrated. Reminds me of the Spartans (ancient Greek, not Michigan St.).

I don't like the idea of war, but I am immensely proud that I live in a country where people volunteer to do a tough job in some third world hell hole to make sure that the bad guys stay over there. Regardless of what you think of the war and the reason for it, I sincerely believe that Iraq, and therefore the world is a better place with that maniac and his brood of dirtbag kids being fertilizer somewhere. And yes, if we had the means I do think we should do the same in other third world dictatorships where innocent people are tortured and killed.

Hey one more thing. More people have died of medical malpractice in the United States than have died in the Iraq war since it started.

And thank you for the accolades. The special courage I think is reserved for the families of those who leave. I appreciate your comments, but I was one among many.

War sucks - plain and simple. But we'll always have a need for it. Hats off to those still serving (Active, Guard or Reserve). Hats off to the vets who fought in the other wars (I know some of you old timers on here probably served in Vietnam) and hats off to our families putting up with the time away, the nightmares, the bouts of anger.

Moraen, God Bless you and yours. Thank you for your service. I wish the media would get first hand accounts like yours out there. As an average Joe like myself is there something I can do? An organization to support? A charity to give to? Any ideas would be appreciated.

Ron 14 wrote: Moraen, God Bless you and yours. Thank you for your service. I wish the media would get first hand accounts like yours out there. As an average Joe like myself is there something I can do? An organization to support? A charity to give to? Any ideas would be appreciated.

Ron - do you mean orgs that help get the word out about good things that happen over there? or just places to support?

noveteranleftbehind.org is a good one. As is woundedwarrior.org. There are a lot of good things to do.

Here is something I think would be right up anybody's alley on this board that wants to help.

There are a lot of veterans who struggle with finances and jobs. Many are on disability. Some are not. Some have no means to support themselves. Or have some money, but just don't know how to manage it.

Contact your local Vet Center. www.vetcenter.va.gov - they can put you in touch with local areas where you can volunteer to talk to veterans about their finances. Budgeting, investing what have you. It's a nice thing to do. I go to the vet center for three hours every Monday and volunteer helping veterans track their expenses, manage their pensions and comp. and help them to understand their benefits and how it can improve their lives.

One hour a week wouldn't kill most people. And these guys are very appreciative. Between that, and the hospital, I spend quite a bit of time volunteering. Help them get on their feet. I think it's a worthy cause. I have thought about setting up a foundation that does just that - helps veterans with finances.

I used to tutor disabled vets in Algebra and volunteer at the VA hospital. Very rewarding. That was in Atlanta. Now I live right next to a military base and haven't done anything. We all need to get off our arses and help.
As for the pirates TURN EVERY G-DAMNED ONE OF THEM INTO PINK MIST.

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