First, his total weight, with all gear/rifle, in all levels, is 85 pounds. Certainly doable for anyone in shape. Second, he’s in good shape. Third, I guarantee you the man pictured is not a ‘mobility kill.’

Yes, of course, before you go to the field you check, adjust, and secure all straps. It’s a given. I’m betting that most folks, when putting loads together, until they have it jusssssst right, have their straps untucked or unrolled…..and then, when it’s perfect, they fix it. Right?

Thanks very much. Could I Please ask a favor – Would one of you old salts please put together a list of little tricks like that (examples: tuck, roll up, duct tape all loose straps; when you get your ruck on, jump up and down to check for rattles; field strip your MREs, etc.) to make life in the field easier, little tricks to get your gear set up, stuff like that, for those of us who never had a fire team leader or an NCO? Thank you in advance!

Sure, in a head to head contest that the guy in pic doesn’t know about and hasn’t started moving tactically. The guy in the pic with this ‘survival sustainment load’ has been trained to the point that if he were to get even a hint he was being ‘compelled’, would drop his ruck and turn the tables on his aggressor.

Detroit3% this guy isn’t a mobility kill and anyone expecting sporty times needs to get fitter first.

He is essentially “medium infantry” and won’t be as fast as someone with the proverbial AK and some dates which is fine in many situations. This is also a rural kit as an urban loadout is quiet different

Fair concern – we’ve chosen to have our plates for defensive festivities where you’re not going to get all tuckered out. We actually are ‘speed demons’ in that we use our rucks for a patrol base (you can get an idea of what I mean if you’ve read or will read, “The Battle for Hunger HIll” where OPFOR finds a nice neat little hidden spot and lays down their rucks and goes out to meet and greet the new folks in the neighborhood.

We chose that because we know we have nothing more than TC3 aid available should things go sporty. Same reason we don’t wear helmets unless in defense – not enough ROI for the weight.

Not saying everyone will make those choices, but that’s what my guys like. Another example: we LOATHE drop leg anything. Pistols get full of mud and other crap, at least in our experience, and unless you have a really really good anchor, the holster creeps into the most uncomfortable positions.

As I said, our posts here aren’t telling anyone, “this is THE way to do it….”. Rather, it’s “A WAY,” so if folks don’t think it makes sense, make another suggestion. We are always looking to improve our personal capabilities.

It’s a load for a young jock who practices with the load on a regular basis. For anyone else it’s a suicide load. You cannot simply pick it up and go with unless you train it. And for the middle aged and older it’s a no go.

Anyone saying a older guy can get fit and run around all day with it is full of shit. There is a reason why the Army doesn’t have 50 year old men as infantry despite what some seminar peddlers are selling.

In terms of optics, the guy is a shit magnet. Marching around with that gear make you a target for any nervous local who sees you. Plates or no plates, you will get dropped. Because in a SHTF situation you cannot expect folks to not freak when they see some paramilitary goon coming up the road loaded for bear. It would be very wise to shoot such a man dead.

Amen, brother.
Readers should ask themselves if they have EVER seen a picture of a guerilla carrying nearly that amount of gear. The NVA and VC were supplied through the Ho Chi Minh Trail complex. There is a lesson in that. Gear was staged for the approach march, think Tet offensive logistics.
For some historical insight, I suggest reading “A Soldier’s Load and the Mobility of a Nation”.

Here is an example of how modern day US MIL doubles down, yet draws the wrong lessons from history: https://usacac.army.mil/cac2/CSI/docs/Gorman/06_Retired/03_Retired_2000_11/22_09_SoldierFuture_Jun.pdf Powered exoskeletons? The author is smoking his own supply. A half competent guerilla will just follow, observe …. and wait for his opportunity. Think about this after watching “Blackhawk Down”. Ask yourself if 19 U.S. KIA vs somewhere around 1,000 Somali KIA is a win, or a loss… what objective or policy was achieved/enforced? The answer is in the question “who is still there?” That conflict probably had a lot to do with controlling the Straits of Mandeb, and only tangentially was about “Somalia”. Consider as well the influx of Somalians into America afterwards (lookin’ at YOU, Minneapolis & Dayton)… was this some sort of political solution to achieve American policy objectives in the Horn of Africa? Who REALLY benefits from this?

Back to the point-

Related to this… consider how much wear and tear an extra 60, 80 or more pounds of gear puts on you. As a young guy, you may not feel that disc getting torn or herniated. But, you will later on. Think about how much your supply requirements actually increase past certain weights… how much more water do you need per extra kilogram of cargo? Water is 8# a gallon, so there is a definite point where the curves cross. People are not pack mules, at least not for long if they also have to do other work. You will not win by emulating everything nation state forces do, that is a sucker’s game and one you WILL lose. Look at how well the proliferation of American heavy motorized infantry went in Iraq and AFG… did that or has that won any wars? Even expensive, equipment intensive and technologically demanding methodologies cannot save incoherent policy.

So, when one thinks about defense, perimeters and surviving… some thought needs to be given to what the policy objective is. Without solving that, your other actions will be less effective. In essence, the “why behind the what”.

These posts were written with people in mind that may not have the experience many on WRSA state they have, least of all the usual commentariat here who seem to exist to tear down any idea from any source. The fact that CA reposts things from the DTG blog on occasion might be an idicator that he finds things that might help or be of interest to others who either frequent, lurk, or discover this site in their web travels.

As far as guerrilla warfare goes, never presume that someone you are denigrating on a single dimension doesn’t know as much or more than you may on a given subject…..I don’t.

For example, a comment below has a picture of some really loaded down North Viets as demonstrable proof that the sandals and pj’s as field equipment was a myth.

Cache? Sure. These posts weren’t about that subject.

Stay on point. Makes the conversation more interesting that trying to follow rabbit trails all day long….just sayin’

“Every legion had a baggage train of 500–550 mules, or about 1 mule for every 10 legionaries. To keep these baggage trains from becoming too large, Marius had each man carry as much of his own equipment as he could, including his own armor, weapons and 15 days’ rations or about 50–60 pounds (22.5–27 kg) of load total. To make this easier, he issued each legionary a forked stick to carry his load on his shoulders. The soldiers were nicknamed Marius’ Mules (muli mariani in Latin) due to the amount of gear they had to carry themselves.”

The “mobility kill”? He’s going somewhere. He’ll drop that gear and get to “assaulter” mode or “patrol” mode once he’s dumped most of the stuff. That is not a picture of a guy getting ready to fight.

Regarding the article: I can’t understand why anyone’s best kit or “SHTF” kit isn’t the first thing to grab. DTG states that he doesn’t have an “IR” kit ( “… when I get mine together, I’ll test it …”), so this seems of secondary importance to other preparations or some sort of “back up” mode – even in his own line of thinking.

My take is that this article is very good advice for the “back up” resources in the event we are separated from our best kit / best solution, and need a re-supply. I can tell you the following:

1. If I have enough warning to grab a kit and a rifle – and we’re assuming I *really* need a kit and a rifle – I’m going to grab my best set up that I’ve trained with all along, but…

2. If I am in my car away from home, and for some reason I can’t get home before I need kit and a rifle, I will need an “IR” kit per this article – because like DTG says, “No sorting, no fooling around” – just take it and go. This could look like big earthquake knocking down overpasses on a freeway, or ANTIFA in downtown PDX “directing” traffic into a mob (see videos on YT…), or someone else’s race riots you didn’t know were scheduled when you headed into downtown / Orc Land. If you have to walk home more than one mile and there is trouble brewing, you’re going to want to open your trunk and see DTG’s “IR” kit looking back at you.

3. If I am traveling for work in CONUS, I need an “IR” kit – and one that won’t make me cry if I lose it or various pieces of it are pilfered by the helpful folks at TSA. Check a piece of luggage, friends. Zip tie the zippers or lock the Pelican case.

4. If I am traveling and something bad happens at home, my wife and teenagers are going to need gear, and they’re going to NOT have me to sort, put together, ensure set up, etc. THEY need “IR” kit – preferably in totes that can be accessed immediately and / or put in the Family Truckster for the big get away.

5. If I am traveling and something happens at home and my wife and teenagers are NOT getting in the Family Truckster, they need “IR” kit immediately. Same totes for immediate access and no delay / foolin’ around.

I like the idea. I agree that cheap, serviceable, and surplus is a good way to do this – per DTG’s article. I can more easily afford six LBE / H-harness and supplies for their rifles than I can buy hundreds of dollars per person of First Spear or Blue Force Gear goodies with bunches of pouches that cost $50 per copy.

My 12 year old daughter ran her first 5K Run ‘n’ Gun in the same gear DTG has pictured here. Kept her mags out of the mud, let her climb obstacles and crawl under barbed wire, and cross a creek while carry an AR and a Glock. Reloads weren’t speedy, but the rifle and handgun ran without a problem. Size is adjustable. Costs were cheap. Gear was plenty good for a 5K run with pouches loaded.

“DTG states that he doesn’t have an “IR” kit ( “… when I get mine together, I’ll test it …”), so this seems of secondary importance to other preparations or some sort of “back up” mode – even in his own line of thinking.”

Exactly. As the title stated, it is a ‘suggestion’ that we’re trying out.

First place he lost me was assuming that I would have an AR. ‘glock,, and a hollow handle “RAMBO'” survival knife. NUTS to all three. The 5.56 and 9MM are worthless as combat weapons, and the hollow handle “Rambo” knife will break under even a slight side load. ALLWAYS CARRY A FULL TANG KNIFE. Anything else is stupid The more gear you hump over a certain age, the slower you go and the less effective you are. Before very long a heavy ruck will cripple for life anyone over 50. Everything else is “I AIN”T OLD!!!” fantasy bullshit. Humping an 85 pound ruck more than five miles, is hard on a 20 something infantry man in peak training. It will break down an over 40 male in two weeks to the point that he is spending most of any road march in the “pick up straggler” truck. Again: to argue anything else is pure BULLSHIT that fly’s in the face of reality. The kind of gear you advise is a ranger school load for a 19 year old. 80% of them wash out when they break down. A 50+ year old won’t get 15 miles into an infantry champagne even in top shape. EVERYTHING ELSE SAID ON THE SUBJECT IS A BULLSHIT FANTASY Even with my Garand ,1911A1 and bayonet knife 200 rounds for rifle and 21 for my .45 , My gear is under 60 pounds with my full ammo load. My “Assault load” is less than 28 pounds. My gear is built around defending the homestead. I don’t live in a fantasy world where trying to hump a mountain ruck “till the end of the war” at 60+ will somehow turn back the clock and make me a 25 year old 11B again. You might have been a bad ass USAF PJ back in the day. But infantry work will kick your ass at your age . But you will never admit that. You will tell me how full of shit I am and how much I should worship the holy god gun AR-15,and his prophet Glock17, and how with enough PT I too can run 25 klicks with a ranger ruck. Well—You can’t ban me here. and you are full of shit most of the time. Go back to making shinny shoes USAF. Most of the infantry stuff you know was wrong when you got it off the internet.

By the way, Ray, I’ve never had an issue with .30 rifles. In fact, I really like them, and have owned and carried them plenty, from my ’03, Match Garand, and M14 type rifles for over 20 years. I’ve competed in High Power and practical rifle matches and held my own. I also have owned, shot and carried 1911’s for over 20 years. Still have one that I favor also.

Please stop demonstrating that you know absolutely nothing about the motivations of people writing to provide information for others who don’t necessarily agree or want to carry what you have. You carry what you want, no harm – no foul. I’ll carry and write about what I want. Same deal.

You keep this up, and you’re going to vapor lock before your time.

PS – Thank you for acknowledging the USAF looks MUCH sharper with shined shoes/boots than you probably did. The jealousy is thick. ROLFMAO

I was always civil. You banned me for nor worshiping at your church of the AR-15. You spent a lot of your time telling me I was full of shit today. Well ……. FUCK YOU TOO! Eat shit and die. Anyone. And this is for all of you. Who says you are over 50 and can hump an 85 pound rucksack all day every day is a lying sack of shit. Not to me but to yourself. There is MAYBE one man in every million of you that could finish USMC bootcamp or US Army Ranger selection past age 40. There is a reason the military since the beginning of time will not send old men to war. They cannot hack the physical stress. All else is bullshit. The 5.56 X45 Sucks shit. The Stoner is the most worthless firearm ever made. I not only will never own or carry one. I wouldn’t let anyone who had a choice and chose the stoner watch my back. No one that stupid can be trusted. The reason the military carry them is because they do not get to chose. US Army Rangers carrying the FN SCAR? Anyone? In fact NO US Military unit that has a choice carries ANY version of the Stoner. The US military KNOWS that the stoner is a POS and that the 5.56 are worthless. They have been trying to be rid of both for fifty years and the district of criminals won’t let go of the kickbacks they get for the stoner. @Grenadier 1: How about I shoot back with a 3006 163Gr. M2AP? Dipshit. It has more kinetic energy at 800 yards than the 5.56×45 has at the muzzle. The worst part of all this is the forced conformity. Between the NAZI’s and the AR worshipers it is damned near impossible to find one of you that believes in freedom of any kind. If I am forced to make your choice because you say so. How are you in any way different from the communist vermin? You bitch that the M-14SA is too heavy. So you need a five pound rifle. But you think you can run the Darby Queen with your gear on? Yeh Right.

Hey Ray; you are correct that we aren’t young any longer – I for sure as hell am not an early 20s Recon Marine any more – but I’m also not in S.E. Asia either. A fair amount of your vehemence is understandable, and I tracked on most of it. I do disagree with the statement regarding 5.56 and 9mm are “useless” in combat. For some, that may hold true. But, some of us have trained, and continue to train; with weapons of those exact calibers. If for some reason (perhaps my aging vision…) you get past stand off distance from the .338; I have high confidence in the stopping ability of well-aimed 5.56 fire. (read: your chest, or your forehead)
Come to think of it, I’m confident that no one wants to get shot with my .22WMR, either.

I carried over 80 lbs as a grunt and Recon Marine in my youth, today at 64 my backpacking gear is under 40 lbs for several days at 10,000′ in the Winds or Yellowstone NP. I’m going to try to keep it around 30-35, anything more is fucking murder. And I’m in pretty good shape for an old fart.
Elk hunting in snow and cold weather has me with a 10 lb rifle and 20-25 lb pack, kicks my ass every time I climb up to the Continental Divide. Just glad I’m not in my war gear anymore.

However the load out DTG suggested is perfectly fine, especially for beginners and is very conventional right down to arms suggestions. Most of the people on FreeFor will probably have Glocks and AR 15 or something very much like that

There are also lots of FreeFor guys who are young enough to manage the load. I’m middle aged but could and I’d feel well equipped indeed follwoing those suggestions

Also not everyone will be “at the homestead” as they may have to be on the move or out hunting bad guys . Sometimes defense is a long hunt after some assholes intent on burning your AO with Molotov cocktails

For the last year I‘ve been using the ESSTAC Shooter‘s Belt with a First Spear inner belt. Using just the inner belt, I Appendix carry a Glock 19 and spare mag. If needed, I pull the AIWB holster out, tighten the belt, and throw the shooter‘s belt over the top, with a Glock 17, TQ, two spare pistol mags, rifle mag, and flashlight. Then the slick PC and/or twelve-year-old Eagle chest rig as well. Then I can couple a small assault pack or a ruck, depending on needs.

Ray,
Great scene in “Get Shorty” where the LA tough guy is insulting the real mobsters “wop 9”, well that little “wop 9” did a number on him about 30 seconds later. The last shot went thru the bottom of the guys foot, he was already dead. “Bullets are funny things”.
Regards,
Harry

The one thing that I would consider is prior experience with a particular gear set up in the military. My suggestion would be for veterans to select a gear carry method that reflects the one that they used while in the service as it will greatly ease training. It is much easier to recall an old skill verses learn a new skill and properly knowing how to use the gear will outweigh any relatively small advantage that any other form of gear may or may not offer. Just my two bits. YMMV.

Texas (and other baking shitholes) does not have magic snow melt creeks from which to filter gallons and gallons of pristine, cool water. At best we have wells in the country or worse, slimed out, cow-drooled, bird-shitted festering stock troughs. Go ahead and drink that green tank slurry too, the simmering broth cows, birds and feral hogs have been shitting, pissing and rolling in all year. It’s organic. High falootin ceramic filters just love it too.

On the move in the bush we live from one potable water supply to the next potable water supply. Stopping often, in the shade and drinking water, not moving. Or we make a vehicle carry all that shit…with the A/C on full blast.

Minimum, bare assed minimum of one gallon hydro and confirmed, mapped resupply within a distance your ninja platoon can hump both distance and weight before you run out.

Prudence suggests doubling that for retasking to an alternate supply once finding the primary FUBAR, accidents, gunfights, etc.

NOW add a light rifle, ammo, ground cloth (permethrined), some DEET, a Thermarest, a can of sardines and some crackers. Go DO that. Again, again and again. Video record the experience. All of it. Or it didn’t happen.

Wets hump less than that, some tinned food, crackers, beaucoup water and still die like flies in the heat. The desert SW is a human dehydrator and bone bleaching system. It’s job is to kill you before the enemy does.

If I had to do that today, I would (and do) have an ALICE frame, shelf and 5 gallons of water in a Jerry can for each pair of fighters or four 2 qt collapsible canteens for me in a medium ALICE pack. Many many more jerry cans for caches too.

That’s 2.5 gallons to get you both to the next resupply. Five pounds of frame, straps and can plus 8.35lbs/gallon x 5 gallons = 46.75 pounds.

Magically, that’s what I hump (sand bag equivalent) every other day. For 3.5 miles each time. Then rest a day. Then do it again. It’s taken my 50+ ass six months to be able to do that. No weapon. No running. No one shooting at me. In the blissful coolness of what most of you would consider spring weather.

I see the lists people make and just shake my head. They should just carry a body bag, ammo and a canteen of water with a nice note apologizing to the enemy for wasting its time.

Just like everything, there is nothing set in stone, or a single solution that fits all situations. DTG, gives you options for certain conditions and situations. Just like there are times that wearing body armor is the thing to do and times it may not be a good idea, there are times that carrying 60lb + of gear might be the best thing to do (for example, if you are in northern winter climates you probably need more layers and shelter that will weigh more) then there are times that you can throw on an sneaky bag that has half a dozen mags, a blow out kit and a water bottle and go do some work.

Learn what works for what situation. Logic dictates that if you can carry a heavy load for a distance and you train that way, then you can carry a small load even further….

Funny how that works when you actually abandon a dogmatic approach and use that mush between your ears.