I was happily driving along in my Centurion I the other day, shooting at scrubs, when suddenly

KABOOM!

Obliterated by the scum of the skies: some lucky tomato in an SPG.

That got me thinking about the upcoming artillery "nerf". From what I've seen, WG's thought process behind this roughly resembles the following:

PROBLEM: Arty is overpowered.

SOLUTION: Make artillery more powerful.

Standard WG logic here, folks.

Before you all flip out at me, allow me to explain....

NOTE

A note before I jump in - I have not yet played the Sandbox with stun mechanics implemented. This is my outside analysis of the system, a prediction of the results of its implementation.

Also, a note about me - I don't claim to be a unicum at all, or a master of the game. I consider myself a fair player - I'm not a tomato, but I'm not particularly outstanding. I play my S-51 a fair amount, but generally prefer my British mediums.

Anyway....

STUN MECHANICS

Here's a basic overview of how the "stun mechanics" are supposed to work.

When a vehicle is hit by artillery, in addition to quite possibly getting tracked, its crew is "stunned" for a period of time, during which the tank cannot operate. This is supposed to make artillery more helpful to its team. This effect can apparently be avoided, however, with first aid kits, which are now going to recharge each minute.

At the same time, artillery's damage is being reduced. However, its splash radius is going up. This is supposed to make artillery less insanely powerful. It seems to me, though, that whatever damage is lost from reduced alpha is regained from the splash itself. For example, say somebody is aiming at a pair of tanks with their artillery. They hit the ground right between the tanks, damaging them both, but not scoring a direct hit. Assuming stun mechanics have not been implemented, let's say the artillery does 500 damage to each tank. Now, let's implement stun mechanics and repeat the situation. Initially, one might think that the artillery would do less damage. However, due to the increased splash radius, the damage the shell does falls more slowly the farther the targets are away from ground zero. Therefore, if the damage drop isn't enough, the shell will still do the same damage to each tank.

[EDIT] I did some more research, and apparently the damage from artillery is going to be reduced far more than I had thought - cut in half rather than reduced by twenty percent or so. It looks like artillery really is going to be weak enough that the increased splash radius won't compensate.

NOT ALL BAD

There's one thing that WG seems to be doing right here. Part of what they're planning to implement is the removal of Armor Piercing and HEAT rounds from artillery. That made me very happy to hear, because armor penetrating rounds are completely unsuited to artillery and enrage both artillery players and tankers.

For a tanker's perspective, imagine the following. Our little tank is driving along, happily shooting enemies, when suddenly, out of absolutely nowhere, an unseen assailant puts a 203 mm HEAT round directly through its roof. Suddenly, the happy little tank is very deceased. This doesn't matter much if it's something like a Centurion, which hardly has much armor anyway and might well be penetrated by HE, but if it's something like a KV-4, HE would not have done that.

An artillery player's perspective is also relatively easy to imagine. Artillery is generally inaccurate and RNG-dependent. Usually, this is compensated for through splash damage from HE. AP and HEAT, however, have no splash damage. Shells can be absorbed by tracks, bounced by armor, or simply missed. Historically and realistically, artillery's purpose is to fling explosives over hills. That should be artillery's use in WOT, as well.

Another thing WG seems to be doing right, although they're not fully there yet, is limiting the number of SPGs per team per match. At the moment they're planning to limit it to three. It's not enough, though. The upper limit, I think, should be two. Why? The reload time of Bert the Avenger.

BUT STILL PRETTY BAD

With three SPGs per team, marauding platoons of FV304s can lock down and annihilate individual tanks, and ultimately entire flanks.

Imagine this. You are driving your favorite medium. You round a corner, and suddenly POW! You get shot by Bert. You fix your tracks and start to back up into cover.

OH WAIT! You've been stunned. You're stuck.

You use your first aid kit and get moving. But before you can move an inch, POW! You get shot by Bert #2. Your repair kit and first aid kit will take a full minute to recharge and become usable again.

But you'll be fine! Your crew is good, and should be recovered right about - POW! You get shot by Bert #3.

Well, they've all fired now, right? Soon, you'll be able to - POW! Bert #1 has reloaded again. Then Bert #2 has reloaded again. Then Bert #3 has reloaded again. Do you see what I'm getting at here? Stun mechanics look like they'll make FV304s even more ridiculously overpowered. It doesn't matter how reduced their damage output is if they can keep hammering you until you're dead.

ALL IN ALL...

It seems that stun mechanics won't really change anything. Artillery can still cause you to take massive damage easily. FV304s can keep you permanently stunned IN ADDITION to being permanently tracked. This means that not only can you not move, you can't accomplish anything while you're stuck. If the FV304s don't get you, those tomatoes you were trading shots with will. The only way I can see artillery being fixed is with such a significant reduction in damage and splash radius that it becomes pointless for the vehicle class to even exist in the first place. Artillery is broken, and there doesn't seem to be a clear path to fix it.

[EDIT] As I mentioned above, upon additional, enlightening research prompted by responses (thank you for that), it seems stun mechanics actually WILL change things. This is exactly what community discussion can do.

Thanks for taking the time to read my wall of text! I'd like to know what the rest of the community thinks outside of the poll above, and as such encourage replies. If I made any miscalculations or assumptions, or you disagree with my analysis, please let me know!

I've done plenty of research - read countless other forum posts, watched the full WG video about these mechanics. There's not much more I can do without Sandbox access. Plus, as I mentioned, these are my predictions of what effects stun will have on the game.

Just go try the Sandbox. Your conclusion that the sandbox arty changes won't really change anything is quite far from what I have seen while sandboxing. You make quite a few bad assumptions which I will not list, I will simply tell you to go see for yourself first hand. Speculating about what the Bert tier 6 arty does in sandbox is moot since Sandbox is tier 10 only except for tier 8 LTs.

I would absolutely love to try the sandbox, and I understand the points about my lack of knowledge. I've sent an application. If anybody here has tried the sandbox for themselves and formed their own opinions, I'll listen.

I would absolutely love to try the sandbox, and I understand the points about my lack of knowledge. I've sent an application. If anybody here has tried the sandbox for themselves and formed their own opinions, I'll listen.

To me, the stun effect and the other arty changes go a long way toward making arty actually a bit of fun to play and removing some of the major whines about arty. I hope WG polishes this new system up and drops it into test this year.

I do play middle tiers a lot and I can't say I have seen a scourge of Bert platoons out in force.

To me, the stun effect and the other arty changes go a long way toward making arty actually a bit of fun to play and removing some of the major whines about arty. I hope WG polishes this new system up and drops it into test this year.

I do play middle tiers a lot and I can't say I have seen a scourge of Bert platoons out in force.

It looks like they're dropping artillery damage a lot more than I thought they were. Thanks for pointing that out!

Bert platoons tend to be few and far between, but are an absolute monster when they show up. Even single Berts can be extremely frustrating, although this perhaps indicates a deeper intrinsic problem of Bert himself.

I'm much more optimistic about stun mechanics now. I only hope they really do help....

I've done plenty of research - read countless other forum posts, watched the full WG video about these mechanics. There's not much more I can do without Sandbox access. Plus, as I mentioned, these are my predictions of what effects stun will have on the game.

How much research have you done?

If you've watched WG's video, then you weren't paying attention. Some notes as I watch it right now:

Alpha

First showing of a splash shot with two vehicles by a 261. 547 damage between the two. Previously, a shot like that would do 500-600 to each.

2nd showing of the 261 scoring an almost hit on a Ru251. Netted 378, whereas there is a high chance of being one shot or almost one shot on the live server. 2nd shot looked to be even closer, if not a direct hit, netting 362.

3rd showing of the changes, showing off splash damage, nets 526. Again by a 261, against a TVP, AMX 50B, and an IS-7. The radius is large but no tank took more than 300 damage.

Tank Stun

The point of the stun effect is to reward SPG players who stun enemy tanks. They lost their massive alpha and the only way to make up the damage is through assisted. Just like how lights usually benefit from spotting, SPG's will now benefit from stunning.

Tank stun, from what I've seen through videos made by players on the sandbox server, is not a crippling issue. A % decrease in crew effectiveness is workable.

Heavily armored vehicles (Maus, E100) are better able to shrug off stuns, therefore even though you're in a chokepoint or massed you will not be "crippled". There are a lot of numbers being thrown out there in the video but basically, an IS-7 is going to suffer roughly 11 seconds of stun from a near splash hit by a 261, as shown in the video.

Misc.

The "aiming indicator" also being worked on is great for information intelligent allies about when you are going to fire and where. Whether or not teammates will pay attention to it is another thing.

Everything I've seen indicates SPG play is going to be far more about supporting teammates and getting stun damage in. If tier 10 pieces are only doing 400-500 on average, you'd have to expect smaller caliber pieces to be even less dangerous. I highly doubt triple Bert's is going to permatrack a tank and keep it stuck in place.

If you've watched WG's video, then you weren't paying attention. Some notes as I watch it right now:

Alpha

First showing of a splash shot with two vehicles by a 261. 547 damage between the two. Previously, a shot like that would do 500-600 to each.

2nd showing of the 261 scoring an almost hit on a Ru251. Netted 378, whereas there is a high chance of being one shot or almost one shot on the live server. 2nd shot looked to be even closer, if not a direct hit, netting 362.

3rd showing of the changes, showing off splash damage, nets 526. Again by a 261, against a TVP, AMX 50B, and an IS-7. The radius is large but no tank took more than 300 damage.

Tank Stun

The point of the stun effect is to reward SPG players who stun enemy tanks. They lost their massive alpha and the only way to make up the damage is through assisted. Just like how lights usually benefit from spotting, SPG's will now benefit from stunning.

Tank stun, from what I've seen through videos made by players on the sandbox server, is not a crippling issue. A % decrease in crew effectiveness is workable.

Heavily armored vehicles (Maus, E100) are better able to shrug off stuns, therefore even though you're in a chokepoint or massed you will not be "crippled". There are a lot of numbers being thrown out there in the video but basically, an IS-7 is going to suffer roughly 11 seconds of stun from a near splash hit by a 261, as shown in the video.

Misc.

The "aiming indicator" also being worked on is great for information intelligent allies about when you are going to fire and where. Whether or not teammates will pay attention to it is another thing.

Everything I've seen indicates SPG play is going to be far more about supporting teammates and getting stun damage in. If tier 10 pieces are only doing 400-500 on average, you'd have to expect smaller caliber pieces to be even less dangerous. I highly doubt triple Bert's is going to permatrack a tank and keep it stuck in place.

I was a bit cheeky. That's more research than me.

Thank you for that! Looks like stun is going to work a bit better than I thought.

Reduced damage == less exp. The changes contemplated will make arty play useless anywhere except for clan wars!!! There is no such thing as teamwork in pub matches. If WG does this nerf to arty I will sell my 2 arties, as I will not be able to get exp or credits!!!!

Arty is a pain in the [edited]to play as is. Accuracy sucks, getting a hit on a fully aimed shot on a stationary target is more luck, as determined by the RNG, than skill.

I like the new effects for "Arty 2.0". its very balanced and the play style is more support then damage dealer. As long as they can find a way to balance out the damage penalty for XP then it will be great!

I like the changes, teammates don't usually respect the help arty gives seems most hate arty so why help out we are tomatoes,

most players are stat players an winning is not as important as their numbers in wn8. if they realized how much help arty is to their stats by reducing hp on enemy so a kill is easier, that's what I like about the stunn effect the tank can still operate just not as effective that's what teammates need to realize pounce when the time is good means more hits any way they still will complain but we are here to stay get use to it

I was happily driving along in my Centurion I the other day, shooting at scrubs, when suddenly

KABOOM!

Obliterated by the scum of the skies: some lucky tomato in an SPG.

That got me thinking about the upcoming artillery "nerf". From what I've seen, WG's thought process behind this roughly resembles the following:

PROBLEM: Arty is overpowered.

SOLUTION: Make artillery more powerful.

Standard WG logic here, folks.

Before you all flip out at me, allow me to explain....

NOTE

A note before I jump in - I have not yet played the Sandbox with stun mechanics implemented. This is my outside analysis of the system, a prediction of the results of its implementation.

Also, a note about me - I don't claim to be a unicum at all, or a master of the game. I consider myself a fair player - I'm not a tomato, but I'm not particularly outstanding. I play my S-51 a fair amount, but generally prefer my British mediums.

Anyway....

STUN MECHANICS

Here's a basic overview of how the "stun mechanics" are supposed to work.

When a vehicle is hit by artillery, in addition to quite possibly getting tracked, its crew is "stunned" for a period of time, during which the tank cannot operate. This is supposed to make artillery more helpful to its team. This effect can apparently be avoided, however, with first aid kits, which are now going to recharge each minute.

At the same time, artillery's damage is being reduced. However, its splash radius is going up. This is supposed to make artillery less insanely powerful. It seems to me, though, that whatever damage is lost from reduced alpha is regained from the splash itself. For example, say somebody is aiming at a pair of tanks with their artillery. They hit the ground right between the tanks, damaging them both, but not scoring a direct hit. Assuming stun mechanics have not been implemented, let's say the artillery does 500 damage to each tank. Now, let's implement stun mechanics and repeat the situation. Initially, one might think that the artillery would do less damage. However, due to the increased splash radius, the damage the shell does falls more slowly the farther the targets are away from ground zero. Therefore, if the damage drop isn't enough, the shell will still do the same damage to each tank.

[EDIT] I did some more research, and apparently the damage from artillery is going to be reduced far more than I had thought - cut in half rather than reduced by twenty percent or so. It looks like artillery really is going to be weak enough that the increased splash radius won't compensate.

NOT ALL BAD

There's one thing that WG seems to be doing right here. Part of what they're planning to implement is the removal of Armor Piercing and HEAT rounds from artillery. That made me very happy to hear, because armor penetrating rounds are completely unsuited to artillery and enrage both artillery players and tankers.

For a tanker's perspective, imagine the following. Our little tank is driving along, happily shooting enemies, when suddenly, out of absolutely nowhere, an unseen assailant puts a 203 mm HEAT round directly through its roof. Suddenly, the happy little tank is very deceased. This doesn't matter much if it's something like a Centurion, which hardly has much armor anyway and might well be penetrated by HE, but if it's something like a KV-4, HE would not have done that.

An artillery player's perspective is also relatively easy to imagine. Artillery is generally inaccurate and RNG-dependent. Usually, this is compensated for through splash damage from HE. AP and HEAT, however, have no splash damage. Shells can be absorbed by tracks, bounced by armor, or simply missed. Historically and realistically, artillery's purpose is to fling explosives over hills. That should be artillery's use in WOT, as well.

Another thing WG seems to be doing right, although they're not fully there yet, is limiting the number of SPGs per team per match. At the moment they're planning to limit it to three. It's not enough, though. The upper limit, I think, should be two. Why? The reload time of Bert the Avenger.

BUT STILL PRETTY BAD

With three SPGs per team, marauding platoons of FV304s can lock down and annihilate individual tanks, and ultimately entire flanks.

Imagine this. You are driving your favorite medium. You round a corner, and suddenly POW! You get shot by Bert. You fix your tracks and start to back up into cover.

OH WAIT! You've been stunned. You're stuck.

You use your first aid kit and get moving. But before you can move an inch, POW! You get shot by Bert #2. Your repair kit and first aid kit will take a full minute to recharge and become usable again.

But you'll be fine! Your crew is good, and should be recovered right about - POW! You get shot by Bert #3.

Well, they've all fired now, right? Soon, you'll be able to - POW! Bert #1 has reloaded again. Then Bert #2 has reloaded again. Then Bert #3 has reloaded again. Do you see what I'm getting at here? Stun mechanics look like they'll make FV304s even more ridiculously overpowered. It doesn't matter how reduced their damage output is if they can keep hammering you until you're dead.

ALL IN ALL...

It seems that stun mechanics won't really change anything. Artillery can still cause you to take massive damage easily. FV304s can keep you permanently stunned IN ADDITION to being permanently tracked. This means that not only can you not move, you can't accomplish anything while you're stuck. If the FV304s don't get you, those tomatoes you were trading shots with will. The only way I can see artillery being fixed is with such a significant reduction in damage and splash radius that it becomes pointless for the vehicle class to even exist in the first place. Artillery is broken, and there doesn't seem to be a clear path to fix it.

[EDIT] As I mentioned above, upon additional, enlightening research prompted by responses (thank you for that), it seems stun mechanics actually WILL change things. This is exactly what community discussion can do.

Thanks for taking the time to read my wall of text! I'd like to know what the rest of the community thinks outside of the poll above, and as such encourage replies. If I made any miscalculations or assumptions, or you disagree with my analysis, please let me know!

--------------------

eldeejay

ABN Combat Officer

​Let me ask you this pal....Have you even played the Sandbox server, phase 2? Have tried out the new arty mechanics? If so, then you would be violating the NDA you agreed to when you signed up for it. If not, you have no idea in heck what you are talking about...

Dude, you have made up much of your explanation. There is a lot of what you have said that is not even on the sandbox blog. The blog does not say that the tank(s) stunned by arty are inoperable when they are hit. That is total bogus. http://sandbox.world...s-to-artillery/