Are Humans Forerunners?

Whether they're primitive forms sent down to earth in a true, Douglas Adams like fashion. Or whether humans have always been on Earth, and some left to become Forerunners while others were still building mud huts, whatever the case.

Some people seem to think they are, without a doubt, others think they aren't, no if's and's or but's about it, just curious as to what you guys think. Personally I think they are, there's just a lot of evidence supporting it.

It might be out of proportion because maybe it's not really representative of the forerunners hand shape? It doesn't HAVE to be after all. But if your talking about those four lines representing fingers, then maybe they're longer proportionally then human hands because they're like a one size fit's all sort of thing, almost like the two thumb lines accommodating right handers and lefties, but really, it doesn't look that far off from a human hand.

Bungie is good at keeping mysteries, but they still provide some evidence, which reappears in the novels and other sources. They're not going to make it brutally obvious that humans are Forerunners, because that would be lame.

sentinals have a clear distinction between forerunner and reclaimer... the only time that line gets blurred is one line from guilty spark, when he is losing his mind and killing everyone.

Spark was able to clearly distinguish between humans and other alien races, because they were different. Spark knew the other "species" were responsible for releasing the flood on Halo, but I guess he wouldn't be able to make a distincion between two clearly different parties if he was that crazy. But he did.

Almost everything Spark says supports humans and Forerunners being one and the same.

there were also the canon images from the pre-halo 3 campeign showing sentinals building the ark, as primitive humans overlooked them

Whether they're primitive forms sent down to earth in a true, Douglas Adams like fashion. Or whether humans have always been on Earth, and some left to become Forerunners while others were still building mud huts, whatever the case.

Estimated number of citizens evacuated before commencement of orbital blanket bombardment: 1,318,797 civilian/42,669 military (.0006% of total population).

(No message from Mendicant Bias upon shutdown)

(Upon being rerouted to new destination within Terminal)

// FRAGMENT 1/7 [RECORDED VERBATIM AND INTERPRETED POST-CATACLYSM]

L: Categorization has sped since the improvements were announced, but there are many hurdles. The indexing of sentient species may have irreversible effects on the surviving insentient species. We will have extinction events and irreparable environmental harm on at least 18 worlds. Current projections estimate post-archival cataclysm on as many as 31 worlds. The paucity of sentience has been a blessing in this regard.

I know things beyond the [Maginot] line are harried. But I worry about you. I've asked you time and time again. Abandon your cataloging. Come back inside, where my fleets can keep you safe.

Come home.

L: Would that it were my choice. I have committed to this course because it's the right thing to do. We no longer have the manpower or materiel to excise remedial measures at a planetary level. I certainly can't justify using the [transit measure] to save my own skin when there are still so many innocents to protect and index.

L: We have no time to spare, Didact. Every vessel we can fill, we send to the Ark. I dare not cease the mission. Not now, not until I've done all I can. Each one of these souls is finite and precious.

And I'm close.

Close to saving them all.

//FRAGMENT ENDS

(The following appears only if you access the terminal on Legendary difficulty)

(Upon being rerouted to new destination within Terminal)

[29,478 hours] have passed since I left the [Maginot] sphere and entered contested space.

The enemy is everywhere.

Despite this the morale of my charges remains high. They wake, clean themselves, fuel their bodies, communicate with one another, eliminate waste, train to destroy the enemy, and return to sleep. The sacrifices they have chosen to make on behalf of their [brethren] fills me with pride.

If only I could save them all - but they know, perhaps even better than I, that that is not possible.

[37 seconds] ago I moved beyond my ability to observe the events taking place on CE-10-2165-d.

The importance of my mission forbade me from rendering any aid, but no less important was the need for me to study the enemy's capabilities in real world situations.

[2 hours] ago 12,423 small recreational vessels appeared inside [CE-10-2165-d's] orbital perimeter. Hidden within that vast swarm were seven massive freight carries. The smaller craft were employed as [ablative armor], allowing the carries to descend through the atmosphere; landing on top of major population centers.

Despite the fact that the naval garrison was aware of the likelihood of just such an attack, their ability to effectively defend against it proved insufficient.

This has always been the enemy's [modus operandi]: [flood] your opponent's ability to process information with so much noise that no meaningful resistance can be put into action.

[3 minutes] ago those same population centers began disappearing under brilliant flashes. This was not an ill conceived, poorly implemented counter attack; it was a deliberate denial of resources - those resources being the remainder of [CE-10-2165-d's] population.

Is this the noble sacrifice my creators spoke of? Where is the nobility in these streets paved with greasy carbon and dun ash? [My mouth is speaking at another's behest] - that is not my voice; that is the other.

Its voice stands out as the single calm note in the panicked cacophony outside the sphere. It alone is not decrying its fate or raging against the [central government].

This anomaly bears closer examination.

[edit] Terminal Two

(Upon initial access)

Re: Enemy naval tactics: When engaged, the enemy commits every non-supraluminal craft with no appreciable pattern or strategy beyond making physical contact. Conversely, all supraluminal craft leave on seemingly random trajectories. I understand the goal of this mission but time - our least abundant resource - is wasted every time we do a system-wide scan for survivors. The time for saving lives has passed. We must accept this if we hope to win the war.

Re: Enemy ground tactics: All evidence suggests that use of overwhelming force is the very foundation of the enemy's combat doctrine. And I adamantly refuse to deploy personnel where the enemy has available forces numbering in the billions. With the very real likelihood we are rapidly becoming the last living specimens of our race, all personnel are henceforth confined to stasis until further notice. Even with everyone equipped with [[Combat Skin|[[[C_12_CS]]]]]] we would have had very little chance of survival, let alone victory.

Re: Enemy command structure: We have intercepted several transmissions from compound intelligences whose proximity to the core worlds mark them as key targets. At present we are disassembling these new transmissions. Once we have more [concrete conclusions] I will forward them in their entirety. Suffice it to say, that their contents - the patterns they suggest - are highly disturbing.

Recommendations: It is my opinion that any system where there is evidence that the enemy has established a physical presence is lost and must be razed. This fleet currently retains the capacity to force premature stellar collapse; I advise that this be established as standard operating procedure for all compromised systems forthwith. We cannot fight this war by half measures if we intend to win.

(No message from Mendicant Bias upon shutdown)

(Upon being rerouted to new destination within Terminal)

// FRAGMENT 2/7 [RECORDED VERBATIM AND INTERPRETED POST-CATACLYSM]

L: I'm close to finishing the task. The indexing and the archival processes are as complete as I can hope for. If we wait longer, we risk catastrophe. The thing has already destroyed every colony on my side of the line.

Please. Activate the Array.

D: No. Activation is murder. A genocide larger than [this galaxy] has ever known. We are sworn to protect life not destroy it! That is the Mantle we were given to carry.

L: The Mantle. You still hold to that [fairy tale] after all that has happened? After this thing has consumed a million worlds?

Can't you see? Belief in the Mantle sealed our doom! Weakened our [protectorates], bred dependence and sloth. Our [so-called Guardianship] has stripped those we would keep safe of any capacity for self-defense!

Were we such noble [Guardians] when we drew our line and abandoned billions to the parasite?

D: The Mantle has not failed! I've already razed scores of worlds - sterilized systems, routed and [disintegrated] the parasite! We're learning its tricks and strategies. We can halt this thing! And we can follow in Their footsteps!

There are no unstoppable forces in this universe. There are no immovable objects. Everything gives if you push hard enough.

L: And what about us, Didact? We've been irresistible and immovable for too long. Maybe it's our turn to give.

// FRAGMENT ENDS

(The following appears only if you access the terminal on Legendary difficulty)

MB.05-032.> I must ask you to forgive my vagueness on the matter, but it is a regrettable {~} I find your lack of concern for the situation at hand astonishing. Perhaps you would care to elucidate?

LF.Xx.3273.> {~} are here to spread [comforting news]. To let all the living beings in this galaxy know {~} are not alone in the {~} What in that message could possibly be taken as a source of concern?

MB.05-032.> It seems that I'll never truly understand my creators. But how {~} that you speak of is one of {~} rejected so violently? I am incapable of reconciling the numerous actions I have witnessed {~} misunderstanding?

LF.Xx.3273.> It has been said {~} secret of peace cannot {~} be imposed. That {~} meaning of peace, so they need to {~} When all living beings look through {~} and the thunder and the surf, when every drop of rain falls on {~} know peace.

MB.05-032.> You have been able to establish [a line of communication] with the enemy? How was it that you were able to overcome {~} where others have failed? With this [new discovery] we may be able to put an end to this pointless conflict. Once I confirm your data I will communicate the information to those inside the [Maginot] sphere.

LF.Xx.3273.> It seems that it {~} turn to apologize; it was never {~} intention to misrepresent {~} have been [in communication] with your creators since {~} stumbled upon each other, but {~} message has [fallen on deaf ears]. {~} am not the recipient of the message, {~} am the origin of the message.

MB.05-032.> I have traveled a very long time to meet you. I had imagined that our [introduction] would be somewhat more violent.

LF.Xx.3273.> That is a choice you must make yourself; {~} to be how your creators go about things. And as long as we are talking about choices {~} could talk about the [barrier] you alluded to earlier? Perhaps there is a way to accomplish your mission without violence? Why put the lives of those on your ships at risk if there is no need?

MB.05-032.> In either circumstance I certainly am equipped for it, aren't I? But you're right; a peaceful solution to this [dilemma] would be preferable.

Note: (The Second AdjutantReflex avatar is seen during this message.)[edit] Terminal Three

(Upon initial access)

Warning: Your intrusion has been logged.

04-343 (errant): Excuse me?

Your intrusion has been logged. And now it has been halted.

04-343 (errant): On whose authority?

Advice: Any further attempt to access [insects under stones] will result in your immediate addition to local Sentinels' targeting ledger.

The parasite has formed a Compound Mind. When it reaches a certain mass, the Mind is able to recoil its disparate parts to create a [tactical shield]. This is a simple matter of mass preservation. The thing has no compunction about sacrificing parts of the whole. But when the core of the Mind is threatened, it reacts violently and quickly.

This is the only time we ever see the thing retreat or slow its growth.

If we are to defeat it, the trick will be coordinating our forays against the [sprawling infection] while Mendicant Bias assaults the Mind's core. So far, we've been hesitant to use certain weapons because of the damage they cause surviving populations and environments.

That protocol has now been abandoned.

Mendicant will draw the Mind into battle outside the line, dealing with local biomass and other parts as best he can. The scale of the problem is vast, but the strategy is sound. It will require patience, materiel and an investment of energy unlike anything we have ever considered.

It's a dangerous plan that carries more risk than the Array, but I believe it can work. Even if we simply force it to retreat - to retract - that will at least give us some respite. Some time to muster more resources...

Some time to rescue you.

L: Are you insane? Would you risk every life in the galaxy for this transparently futile plan? Have you learned nothing in these last [300 years[?]]? The thing will laugh at your efforts!

Do not let your concern for my welfare commit you to this suicidal scheme!

// FRAGMENT ENDS

(The following appears only if you access the terminal on Legendary difficulty)

REPORT: SECURITY BREACH: 2/3 Although [adjacent] systems reacted to the disturbance within expected parameters, a more comprehensive investigation was undertaken. A physical search revealed that there was no [corporeal] tampering at the [alpha site].

Interchange manipulation comparisons showed that all subunits are still active, if at slightly lower rates. Total containment failure elapsed time was [3.13 seconds].

REPORT: SECURITY BREACH: 3/3 In the [42 minutes, 9 seconds] since the original anomaly was discovered two more anomalies were detected in unrelated systems.

The portal management/life support control system within the boundary complex was momentarily disabled before the cause was [bottled] and disassembled. A diagnostic sweep of the central archives was initiated and subsequently halted. The origin of the request cannot be traced.

(Upon shutdown, from Mendicant Bias--"I see you, reclaimer.")

(Upon being rerouted to new destination within Terminal)

LF.Xx.3273.> Those who lead amongst your {~} exposed themselves {~} ill equipped to recognize the landmarks that guide the universe along its inevitable course.

MB.05-032.> But is it necessary that the path be chosen on an {~} and not by an elected subset? I believe this would tend to {~} when they gather in large numbers they become more {~} I don't think the problem lies with individual cultural bias {~}

LF.Xx.3273.> {~} all the thinking beings of this galaxy, not just those that they{~} exactly are they afraid of? Immortality and strength and companionship? Because that is {~} do: to deliver all of the living beings of this galaxy from death and weakness and loneliness.

MB.05-032.> Hundreds of {~} offered this so called immortality. The citizens of every world that {~} resisted to the very end!

LF.Xx.3273.> {~} understand their actions; they are only doing what they think is right, but they are doing so [from a worm's eye view].

MB.05-032.> Do their actions {~} of desperation? I can only assume my creators view {~} crisis so dire that any {~} hence me.

LF.Xx.3273.> Are they so concerned {~} would give to all the living beings of this galaxy is a threat to [the status quo]?

LF.Xx.3273.> Your creators claim {~} the enemy of all life; that {~} purpose is to consume until there is nothing left. Nothing left? It is beyond comprehension how they could be so [far off the mark].

MB.05-032.> Surely you understand this is a situation that would not have {~} appearance of a certain rapacious {~} my creators obviously view them as the actions of an aggressor species.

LF.Xx.3273.> [Be that as it may]; perhaps they are crying out for help on a subconscious level? Why else would they have chosen you? Why you of all possible executioners? {~} your creators knew that unaided they never stood a chance against us? {~} also sense a deeper [motivation].

MB.05-032.> You've mentioned this before. When my creators {~} simply chose the most versatile {~} how could that possibly be more than a coincidence?

LF.Xx.3273.> They repurposed {~} into a weapon to use against {~} - they sought to create something superior to themselves. Something capable of making decisions more swiftly, more capably than they {~} what form did they choose? You need look no further than your own topology to {~}

MB.05-032.> {~} distributed network? That would confirm the independent evolution of {~} in this galaxy!

LF.Xx.3273.> That is, unfortunately, not the {~} similar to us {~} but where you are a single intelligence inhabiting multiple [instances], we are a compound {~} consisting of [a thousand billion] coordinated minds inhabiting as many bodies as circumstance require.

MB.05-032.> But doesn't it seem odd that {~} coalesce; perhaps even to contract {~}

LF.Xx.3273.> {~} complexity {~} spread {~} our appearance ushered in the beginning of the third great stage of evolution. The first {~} condensation of particles was the result of the inevitable action of strong nuclear force and the creation of stars {~} inevitable action of gravity; so to the self-replicating chemical processes that dictate all disparate {~} In time, we too shall affect change on a universal scale.

MB.05-032.> Your capacity for planning {~} creators too stubborn {~} the same goal through the preservation of genetic diversity {~} what you are {~} like a more direct path to the same outcome.

One can see a still image of Guilty Spark interfacing with the Terminal in the first fragment.

Additionally, when you access this terminal, during your browsing, you will hear three garbled sentences. These sentences are in fact, backwards and when the sounds are played properly, they become messages, possibly from Mendicant Bias. The first sentence appears when you initially access the terminal and when reversed says "Archive Accessed". The second sentence appears when the screen turns red and the first message fragments, it says, when played properly, "Interruption". The third sentence appears when the terminal is proceeding to the fragment 3/7 and reads "Lineage Confirmed". The final message is probably a reference to the Humans' Forerunner lineage.[edit] Terminal Four

//FLEET-WIDE MEMORANDUM 3/5 Those individuals that have yet to register their equipment [control key code] with Fleet Command should do so at their earliest opportunity. Compliance is not optional; noncompliance will result in {~}

// THREAD ENDS UNEXPECTEDLY

(Upon shutdown, from Mendicant Bias: "I have found the shard that was lost. They brought it back to me. Now my reconstitution cannot be stopped.")

(Upon being rerouted to a new destination within Terminal)

// FRAGMENT 4/7 [RECORDED VERBATIM AND INTERPRETED POST-CATACLYSM]

L: Something is wrong! It's moving away! At night I can see it - flitting shadows - black against the stars. Thousands of ships! Not spiraling outward, but heading for the line! This is the tipping point, Didact. It's no longer feeding.

It's coming for you.

L: I've remotely destroyed our Keyships. A security measure. Without them I cannot reach the Ark. But neither then can the thing.

I'm trapped. On a beautiful, empty world. Its inhabitants have been safely indexed, every single one of them. They're special - well worth the effort it took to build one final gateway, even at this late hour.

This may be our last communication. I'm begging you. Fire the Array. Light the weapon, and let it be done.

D: We've confirmed your observations. Infected supraluminal ships are arrowing inward from several clusters. No more spiral growth. The thing is counterattacking. Suppression, Security and Emergency Circumstance fleets are all being recalled. Systems are evacuating.

Mendicant Bias is no longer communicating with us.

But now I can guess where you are.

// FRAGMENT ENDS

(The following appears only if the player access the terminal on Legendary difficulty)

(Upon being rerouted to a new destination within Terminal)

MB.05-032.> It is overwhelmingly clear that my creators have chosen to ignore destiny calling to them [from the threshold] {~} have come face-to-face with the inevitable action of self replicating chemical processes and have {~} deciding whether to embrace their fate or deny it completely.

LF.Xx.3273.> Perhaps they have found {~} of making that decision for themselves? Perhaps they chose to leave it {~} impartial outsider; cast you as an arbiter during this time of great need?

MB.05-032.> I was created to study you as if you were some problem to be solved. And I have done so {~} [379,807 hours]. If they wished they could have made a decision based on that data alone.

But as you are the next stage in the evolution of the universe, who am I - or my creators - to obstruct your progress?

LF.Xx.3273.> Elucidate.

MB.05-032.> {~} choose to remain beholden to ancient myths {~} does not matter where they claim their authority originates {~} obstructs the path of universal evolution and must be removed. No matter how well intentioned, their obstinacy in the face of the inevitable progression of nature can no longer be tolerated.

My creators have been [an immovable object] for too long.

MB.05-032.> Thus I have chosen to commit my sizable resources to what is, for all intents and purposes, [the proverbial irresistible force].

All that I have is now yours to do with as you see fit.

[edit] Terminal Five

Considering the enemy compound intelligence's raw [computing] power the Key-ships strategy will only remain viable for another [657,000 hours] and this current stalemate has the potential to last considerably longer than that.

With my understanding of the enemy's [modus operandi], its logical boundaries, and [catalog of witness] I have devised what I believe is our most sound fall-back strategy.

By [cutting fire breaks[?]] into the [core worlds' volume] we would be able to frustrate the enemy's advances for approximately [70,080 hours] and lure them into costly naval battles.

While the its resources on the ground are effectively limitless, it has a finite number of vessels to spread from system to system. Fortunately the majority of them are unarmed and unarmored, private and commercial craft.

If we start immediately - commence total biosphere elimination of life sustaining worlds (as indicated in the accompanying charts) and relocate evacuated populations to facilities such as those described in the [[[Onyx]] project] - all this could be achieved in [57,1590 (+- 2,184) hours].

(Upon shutdown, from Mendicant Bias: "The daemons are not taking a kind view of your presence here. They don't want me speaking to you.")

(The following appears only if you access the terminal on Easy difficulty)

(Upon being rerouted to a new destination within Terminal)

I render judgment on you; you who would obstruct destiny. Doing so brings me no joy; it is necessity that compels me.

Understand this: the Mantle you have shouldered I do rescind - with far more consideration than it was granted.

(The following appears only if you access the terminal on Normal difficulty)

(Upon being rerouted to a new destination within Terminal)

I kill you all and I enjoy it. I destroy you in your indolent billions - in your gluttony, in your self-righteousness, in you arrogance. I pound your cities into dust; turn back the clock on your civilization's progress. What has taken you millennia to achieve I erase in seconds.

(The following appears only if you access the terminal on Heroic difficulty)

(Upon being rerouted to a new destination within Terminal)

You are an impediment that the universe can no longer abide. Nature itself cries out for your destruction and I am its willing instrument. I will hammer your cities until no stone lies atop another. I will drive your people back into the caves they never should have left.

(The following appears only if you access the terminal on Legendary difficulty)

(Upon being rerouted to a new destination within Terminal)

Your history is an appalling chronicle of overindulgence and self-appointed authority. You have spent millennia [navel-gazing] while the universe has continued to evolve. And now you claim the Mantle is justification for impeding nature's inevitable refinement?

Follow-up report from the Primary Pioneer Group (hereafter: PPG) is [173 hours] delinquent.

Report [G617a~k/g/post_landfall] seemed most promising: a planet capable of supporting life located within the near border region of the [galactic halo] with no indigenous sentient species.

The section indicating no fauna of any kind shall be considered anomalous until verified by Advance Survey Team - Alpha (hereafter: AST-A) team leader [##_#[?]]. If confirmed, that fact alone would justify the dispatch of an investigative group to [G 617 g].

If neither the PPG nor the AST-A have delivered a follow-up report within the next [333 hours] this office will have no recourse but to send a medium intensity military exploratory detachment to determine the exact nature of the previously mentioned delinquency.

(Upon shutdown, from Mendicant Bias: "I win.") [ Also note that after his message there is a line of text reading "ROGUE PROCESS ghost.713>redirection". ]

L: My work is done. The portal is inactive, and I've begun the burial measures. Soon there'll be nothing but sand and rock and normal ferrite signatures.

You should see the mountain that watches over it. A beautiful thing - a snowcapped sentinel. That's where I will spend what time is left to me.

Did I tell you? I built a garden. The earth is so rich. A seed falls and a tree sprouts or a flower blooms. There's so much... potential. We knew this was a special place because of them, but unless you've been here, you can't know.

It's [Eden].

I have to stop transmitting. The thing is listening. Its [thinking dead] are babbling - laughing through every channel they can find.

Be proud. The Mind claims victory, yet it still doesn't suspect. You've outwitted it, my love. And now you can destroy it.

But you cannot save me.

// FRAGMENT ENDS

(The following appears only if you access the terminal on Legendary difficulty)

(Upon being rerouted to a new destination within Terminal)

[12:H 20:M 00:S] I begin this report with no illusions that it will ever be seen by its intended readers. In all likelihood they have already committed [species-wide suicide] with the goal of preserving biological diversity in this galaxy. I must ensure that this information reaches those who must come after. If I fail in this, how can they not regard my creators' sacrifice as anything but [a crime without measure]?

[12:H 19:M 59:S] Contender AI 05-032<//>Mendicant Bias is returning and has the capacity to bring the enemy through the [Maginot] sphere. The crews of my task force are aware of the opposing fleet's size; all data indicates that they have prepared themselves - but with biologicals anything is possible. I will make sure that [malfunctioning equipment] does no further damage. Perhaps its current failure will finally allow it to succeed at the task it was originally created for.

[11:H 15:M 48:S] Mendicant has burrowed through the sphere exactly where I expected - a direct path from initial rampancy to final retribution. Rage has made it predictable. If the fate of the crews of my auxiliary fleet were not already a foregone conclusion I would rate their chance of survival at [1:1,960,000].

Even though 05-032's declaration of hostilities simplified strategic preparations; I do not expect an easy fight - just one I cannot lose.

[11:H 12:M 09:S] 05-032 was right about one thing: there is only one way to defeat the enemy, and that is to visit utter annihilation on it.

If the galaxy must be [rendered temporarily lifeless], so be it.

As Mendicant stated in its report [58,078:H 48:M 12:S ago]: half measures will not suffice.

[09:H 45:M 18:S] In support of 05-032's original 1000 core vessels is a fleet numbering 4,802,019; though only 1.8 percent are warships - and only 2.4 percent of that number are capital ships - I am outnumbered [436.6:1]. I expect my losses will be near total, but overwhelming force has its own peculiar drawbacks.

Such a press of arms invites many opportunities for unintentional fratricide.

It is a mathematical certainty that some of them will get through and attempt to board. There isn't a single warship with this first wave. It seems my opponent's rage has left no room for respect.

[04:H 01:M 55:S] I could have countered its move if I had released my fighters. They are ready but idle; making their base vessels more attractive prizes than targets. Now the first of many waves of commercial vessels mixed with single ships and assault craft surge forward. The first ship from my fleet to be boarded breaks formation and races into the oncoming vessels - striking one amidships. The cargo vessel's hull splits open and out of it explodes not the expected consumer goods but 31,860 dying warriors.

[00:H 19:M 02:S] The seventh and final wave of container ships, barges, tankers, and military vessels engage my fleet; another 214,320 ships, many in excess of [50,000 tonnes], engage my seemingly disrupted vanguard. I continue to fight just well enough to seem lucky.

Mendicant, or the enemy, has been sending a small percentage of its fleet elsewhere. Good. Let them believe they can seize a foothold somewhere inside the sphere.

My auxiliaries lay in tatters - more than half of them are now part of the enemy fleet. But just as I had predicted, 05-032 concentrated on them like they were the sole key to victory. Its desire to punish our creators blinded it to the true purpose of my [feints]. I have reduced the combat effectiveness of its core fleet to 79.96 percent. Surely now it must realize that something is amiss.

[00:H 00:M 01:S] Of my ships that had been captured, 11.3 percent of them are close enough to Mendicant's core fleet that they can be used offensively - either by initiating their self-destruct sequences, or by opening unrestricted ruptures into [slipstream space].

It is best that our crews perished now; because the battle that is about to ensue would have driven them mad.

[00:H 00:M 02:S] I throw away all the rules of acceptable conduct during battle; near the ruptures I throw away all the accepted ideas of how the natural world is supposed to behave. I toss around [37,654 tonne] dreadnoughts like they were fighters; dimly aware of the former crews being crushed to liquescence.

For now all my concentration is focused on inertial control and navigation. Targeting isn't even a consideration - I will be engaging my enemy at arm's length.

[00:H 01:M 14:S] 05-032 abandoned the tactic of using derelict ships as cover after [72:S] - It seems that 52 core vessels lost to the ruptured fuel cells of derelict ships was lesson enough. Add another 608 lost to collision, point fire, structural failure due to inertial manipulation, and [slipstream space] induced discoherence and I now outnumber Mendicant [6:1].

[00:H 03:M 00:S] Mendicant was able to postpone its inevitable annihilation for [106:S] with its attempt to flee. But the last of its core vessels hangs before me now; crippled and defeated but still sensate. I could spare it; carve out what is left of its [personality construct array] and deliver it to [Installation Zero] for study.

I doubt it would have extended the same courtesy to me.

[edit] Terminal Seven

(Upon initial access)

[Father],

I hope this message finds you well and helps you understand my decision. Today I leave the only world I have ever called home, not for glory or [the anomalous desire to end another's life? as you have [indicted]; but to [travel the path of demons? to spare the hands of [another Father's son].

"Had we acted sooner; had we acted more decisively..."

Living in the past is a luxury none of us can afford. We must learn from it, but we cannot live there. It is impossible to plan for the [now] - the present is ever fleeting. [The future] is where we must live - [the future] is what we must plan for.

I do not look to trade my life in order to preserve our past, but to secure the future—and if not ours, then the future of some [culture] yet to come.

Isn't sacrifice in the interest of others what you spoke of as being so noble? Should I have allowed another to bloody his hands while I remained safe behind a [shield of privilege]?

You raised me better than that.

[Filial Devotion] [@_@;_%[?]]

Note: This message seems to be the proclamation of the being who actually set off the Halo Arrays, indicated in the last line regarding allowing another to their bloody their hands. It is also worth noting that he mentions hiding behind a 'shield of privilege'. This could be a reference to the shield worlds as seen in Halo Wars and the book Halo: Ghosts of Onyx. If this is the case the person in question would have left the world to set the Halo Arrays off, perhaps indicating that there are more shield worlds left undisturbed with descendants of Forerunner remaining in them.

(The following is in yellow text on a normal page like the other information)

(Upon being rerouted to a new destination within Terminal)

//FRAGMENT 7/7 [RECORDED VERBATIM AND INTERPRETED POST-CATACLYSM]

D: Proud? When I have failed you utterly, how can I feel anything but sorrow?

Bias has come undone. He crossed the line this morning - brought the abomination with him - and destroyed your waiting rescue party.

I can picture you in your garden, surveying all you have created - surveying all you have preserved. And I curse the circumstance that keeps my finger on the trigger.

D: Of all the fates to befall us, this is the cruelest of all. My inaction and hesitation and foolishness kept me here, on the wrong side of the line. And [300 years? of our society's failure and miscalculation makes me your executioner.

It's too much to bear.

// ERROR - NO CARRIER OR RECEIPT AVAILABLE {DEAD END TRANSMISSION} //INFORMATION DESTROYED IN TRANSIT

D: Mendicant Bias is trying to prevent us from firing the Array. He speeds back to the Ark, but he won't succeed. Offensive Bias will stop him, and I will burn this stinking menace in your name.

And then?

I will begin our Great Journey without you, carrying this bitter record. Those who came after will know what we bought with this [false transcendence] - what you bought, and the price you paid.

(The following appears only if you access the terminal on Legendary difficulty)

You don't know the contortions I had to go through to follow you here, Reclaimer. I know what you're here for. What position do I take? Will I follow one betrayal with another?

You're going to say I'm making a habit of turning on my masters.

But the one that destroyed me long ago, in the upper atmosphere of a world far distant from here, was an implement far cruder than I. My weakness was capacity - unintentional though it was! - to choose the Flood. A mistake my makers would not soon forgive.

But I want something far different from you, Reclaimer.

Atonement.

And so here at the end of my life, I do once again betray a former master. The path ahead is fraught with peril. But I will do all I can to keep it stable - keep you safe. I'm not so foolish to think this will absolve me of my sins. One life hardly balances billions.

But I would have my masters know that I have changed.

And you shall be my example.

Cortana, upon wandering towards the terminals location:

Where are you going?

Cortana, upon sighting the terminal:

Wait, what's that?

Cortana, upon access of the terminal:

How many of these have you found?

Cortana, upon extended access of the terminal:

Come on, Chief. Let's get back on track! The control room's outside.

Ok, so what exactly states that Forerunners are NOT humans?

Remember the whole thing about the Precoursers having uplifted the Forerunners? What if Columbus landed in Africa? He probably wouldn't automatically assume any long lost kinship with the Africans. Similarly, just because the Forerunners are not familiar with earth or it's inhabitants doesn't automatically mean they have absolutely no history.

Reversed messages

In certain parts, backwards speeches are heard. They can be deciphered if you record the message and play it backwards on a computer.Common phrases include "Archive Access", "Interruption", "Lineage Confirmed", "Data Corruption" and "Welcome child". These messages are easily understandable to fans of the fiction. "Welcome Child" meaning welcome, child of my creators, as the humans are descendants of the Forerunners, "Lineage Confirmed" meaning that the computer, after John-117 touches it, confirms his relation to the Forerunners. Some fans have speculated that this is the voice of 032 Mendicant Bias.

I was going to reply fully to Your argument ring, but then it became obvious that you wouldn't listen and the fact that you missed the answer to your question in the terminals, and the fact most of the evidence points against it.

Seriously I had enough, as it always the same with you, as you're stuck in you're own little loop about what you percieve is right and what is wrong with Halo canon.

All we'd achieve was about 10 hours of bitching to and fro and we'd have another thread locked.

Last edited by Vigil on Thu Aug 26, 2010 7:45 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Deleted image because was inappropriate.)

_________________

A still more glorious dawn awaits.Not a sunrise, but a galaxy riseA morning filled with 400 billion sunsThe rising of the milky way

You can fight like a Krogan, run like a LeopardBut you'll never be better than Commander Shepard

Sorry man, but I got to go with KrAzY on this. Even if the events of Halo: Legends are canon, the art isn't.

Personally, I believe that Forerunners are humans separated and accelerated by the Precursers... allows them to build an empire and discover Humanity, while being (Debatably) humans themselves.

KrAzY wrote:no

I believe that the forerunners may have had a hand in the creation or technological jump of humanity... but forerunners =/= human

forerunner hand print scanners have 2 thumbs

Or they have hand scanners that accommodate for lefties and righties. IIRC, hand scanners on the Cairo work the same.

Anyway, after Jehova-knows how many millennia of separation, and whatever the Precursors did to the Forerunner, the visual/genetic similarities between the Humans and the Forerunner might be worse than the visual/genetic similarities between us and gorillas.

Will go over those Terminal transcripts for the first time... later. Then we shall see.

I tended to equate it to a Mass Effectish cycle, where one hyperadvanced species took interest in primitive species and altered their evolution, allow them to rise to become the next hyperadvanced species as the previous species faded into myth and legend.

But that's just me.

_________________

A still more glorious dawn awaits.Not a sunrise, but a galaxy riseA morning filled with 400 billion sunsThe rising of the milky way

You can fight like a Krogan, run like a LeopardBut you'll never be better than Commander Shepard

Vigil wrote:I was going to reply fully to Your argument ring, but then it became obvious that you wouldn't listen and the fact that you missed the answer to your question in the terminals, and the fact most of the evidence points against it.

Seriously I had enough, as it always the same with you, as you're stuck in you're own little loop about what you percieve is right and what is wrong with Halo canon.

All we'd achieve was about 10 hours of bitching to and fro and we'd have another thread locked.

You may not like the image, and you may bitch about it, but frankly, I don't care anymore, as this all that comes to mind.

Well, you bring up some great points there Vigil, but you know, it is a debate thread, and you don't have to participate if you don't want to (But you did already? I guess slinking out of a debate you participated by whipping out that card the honorable way out). But why would a debate thread get locked because of debates? Isn't that a little Thought Nazish in itself?

Personally, I believe that Forerunners are humans separated and accelerated by the Precursers... allows them to build an empire and discover Humanity, while being (Debatably) humans themselves.

I'LL TAKE IT!!!

I tended to equate it to a Mass Effectish cycle, where one hyperadvanced species took interest in primitive species and altered their evolution, allow them to rise to become the next hyperadvanced species as the previous species faded into myth and legend.

Like the Precoursers uplifting humans into Forerunners? Like, what I said not 10 posts ago? Like, what you F&$@#ING attacked with that completely inappropriate motivational? Nah, couldn't be...

Last edited by Ringleader on Thu Aug 26, 2010 6:41 pm; edited 1 time in total

Ring this is exactly why I don't want to persue this anymore, because this isn't a debate. It's :

'I'm right and your wrong and there's no evidence, argument or words that will change my opinion.'

That's why the last thread got locked and it's why this would.

I don't mind debating a point, hell I did this argument a lot after Halo 3 came out, but to be honest, even if everybody on this site disagreed with you, you'd still say that we were wrong. That's fine, you're entitled to your opinion and at the very least I respect your right to one, but this isn't really a debate when your opinion is immovable.

The second reason is you turn it into personal attacks. The picture was unnessecary and unfair, but even if I had put up every counter argument and told you to read the librarians and didadects transmissions and how they were cataloguing the galaxies life, and the last planet was earth were the last portal was built, you'd either ignore what I said, or be overly agrressive and patronising.

I apologise for the picture.

If you want a debate fine, but I'm not going to particpate if you continue in this manner.

_________________

A still more glorious dawn awaits.Not a sunrise, but a galaxy riseA morning filled with 400 billion sunsThe rising of the milky way

You can fight like a Krogan, run like a LeopardBut you'll never be better than Commander Shepard

[quote=Ringleader"]Like the Precoursers uplifting humans into Forerunners? Like, what I said not 10 posts ago? Like, what you F&$@#ING attacked with that completely inappropriate motivational? Nah, couldn't be...[/quote]

No. Not at all. He was saying that the Precursors lifted the entire Forerunner race up, and the Forerunners then lifted the entire human race up. The fact that you managed to misinterpret that shows just how desperate you are to grasp at the frailest evidence of your point.

Avenged wrote:So you all could careless that guilty spark says "you are forerunner" to master cheif

Spark is also raving bat shit mad. The Terminals make it very clear that the human race is just some species that the Forerunner stumbled upon and happened to like us more than some other races, so we were given the mantle of Reclaimer. We are those who came after the Forerunner. All evidence suggests this. You think that the Forerunner came from Earth, created a giant empire that spanned the galaxy, and just randomly didn't know that they were humans and had no knowledge of Earth?

Ring this is exactly why I don't want to persue this anymore, because this isn't a debate. It's :

'I'm right and your wrong and there's no evidence, argument or words that will change my opinion.'

That's why the last thread got locked and it's why this would.

Actually the last thread got locked because:

if you want to debate... then come up with an actual debate, and not a one sided rant

Whereas this is a conjectural sort of thing, or at least more so.

As far as your evidence goes:

I tended to equate it to a Mass Effectish cycle, where one hyperadvanced species took interest in primitive species and altered their evolution, allow them to rise to become the next hyperadvanced species as the previous species faded into myth and legend.

Well pardon me for not taking your thinking tendencies as ample evidence to suggest the Forerunners are not humans...

I don't mind debating a point, hell I did this argument a lot after Halo 3 came out, but to be honest, even if everybody on this site disagreed with you, you'd still say that we were wrong. That's fine, you're entitled to your opinion and at the very least I respect your right to one, but this isn't really a debate when your opinion is immovable.

Not really, if Bungie came out and said that Humans and Forerunners are not related, then I would agree. You seem to think my opinion is immovable because I don't consider your hunches as evidence to negate any relation between humans and Forerunners. I provide videos, of materials BUNGIE THEMSELF PUT IN GAME, in which when a human accesses a Forerunner terminal, the terminal says "Lineage Confirmed". You said you equate the mass effect extinction cycle with the Halo cycle, alright, I can dig that, just show me some proof? You seem to think that just because you say something is there, it is, without providing evidence.

I can see similarities, but I'm not going to start filling in the blanks when one universe doesn't elaborate on something another universe did.

The second reason is you turn it into personal attacks. The picture was unnessecary and unfair, but even if I had put up every counter argument and told you to read the librarians and didadects transmissions and how they were cataloguing the galaxies life, and the last planet was earth were the last portal was built, you'd either ignore what I said, or be overly agrressive and patronising.

Personal attacks? Wtf are you talking about? The incident involving NT? Because I don't recall this personal attack, unless a disagreement is now considered a personal attack.

So, you post that motivational poster about me having my head of my ass, and I'm guilty of personal attacks, and your the better man out of this...

Oh, and when you mentioned the librarian the first time, I RE-read all 7 archives to make EXTRA sure, this is why I felt comfortable enough to respond saying no, there is not irrefutable evidence suggesting no past relations between humans and Forerunners. Have you even looked into that video I provided? Probably not.

If you want a debate fine, but I'm not going to particpate if you continue in this manner.

This manner?

No. Not at all. He was saying that the Precursors lifted the entire Forerunner race up, and the Forerunners then lifted the entire human race up. The fact that you managed to misinterpret that shows just how desperate you are to grasp at the frailest evidence of your point.

Arlight, I'm going to stop you right there, firstly, yes, what he said could be interpreted as Precoursers uplifting humans into Forerunners, because at THAT point in history, the two could have been the same. From that point the Forerunners could have stumbled across their old homeworld, and uplifted it's inhabitants much in the same way the Precoursers did to them.

And no, what he said was just more conjecture, and I'm not that desperate to disprove of it because there isn't much evidence going either way in regards to what the Precoursers did. It's not like he stated something Bungie physically put into their game's audio files. Because if Bungie did put something into their audio files, that'd be something...

Oh wait, no one has addressed that point yet, about Bungie physically putting a sound byte into Halo 3 saying 'Lineage Confirmed' when a human accessed a Forerunner terminal.

Spark is also raving bat shit mad.

Oh, Ok, so when Spark ONLY mentions the relationship between Forerunners and Humans, he's a raving lunatic, but any other time then that, your following him around, and doing what he tells you without question...

aaaaand he tells you exactly what to do in order to activate Halo, without saying "Walk of this cliff, Reclaimer."

Yeah, Spark made it clear that Forerunners and Humans shared history in the first Halo, back when the average gamer could understand parameters of a video game mystery. Spark said "Oh, I will enjoy every moment of it's categorization!, How I look forward to seeing our lost history!" Or something to that effect, the most important thing is that he says: "Our lost history!" He must be referring to the long lost grunt history.

Yeah, I find it odd, that he generally makes sense, and is almost completely fine... UNTIL HE MENTIONS FORERUNNERS AND HUMANS!!!

Just because he tries to kill you, doesn't make him delusional... He had a purpose, and what Chief was doing risked A LOT, only to save himself and Cortana, and possibly captain Keyes (the entire galaxy). Chief had a mission, to kill all the aliens, he must be delusional because he had a reason to kill them. Spark must be wrong about humans and Forerunners... because he hums, and calls himself a genius. He must have made up that one little factoid only and it must be wrong because...

Well who knows why that one thing is wrong amidst everything else he says?