-Agriculture at the time was slave based. Now it is machine based, and farmers are even subsidised by the government. I buy food and no slaves are
involved.

-I don't believe "whoever wins the war is automatically right".. I just believe that the side that won THAT war is right. I also believe that whoever
wins the war is in charge and makes the rules.

-I do believe in "big brother".. sure

-I don't have a problem with rural LIFE, more the seclousionist "only worry about yourself and your family" mentality. Humans are a social species. We
are expanding and growing our population at an exponential rate. St some point there will be no other option than to live in a city... Whether it be
for work.. or the fact that there is no other option.

I haven't beat up anyone this week period. My dream would would be everyone living is massive skyscraper filled indoor cities all bunched up living
and working together collectively towards one common goal.... Sum of all it's parts being greater and whatnot.

originally posted by: TheTruthRocks
"The confederacy is an enemy of the United States."

The confederate states desired to secede because they were interested in states' rights--and not being ruled by a central government. It was never
about slavery. That whole argument was created years later because it's a hot-button issue and many people slobber and drool over this sort of stuff.
They love it.

I bring this up in discussions and people immediately label me a racist because they have never done their own discovery of facts. They have had
their opinions spoon fed to them because it takes work to study history and develop one's own conclusions. Being lazy means less work.

It sure is a lot easier to ingest the rhetoric and jump aboard the Ignorance Train. Enjoy the food and the view. You'll have plenty of uninformed
company.

If you actually read my post you would see that I said exactly that. The south was fighting for state>fed, the union was fighting for fed>state. I
agree and believe wholeheartedly states should have less rights seeing as how we are one country.. one nation. We aren't the United countries of
America. The North one.. rightfully so.. and solidified that fact.

-Agriculture at the time was slave based. Now it is machine based, and farmers are even subsidised by the government. I buy food and no slaves
are involved.

Are you sure? All food does not come from the US, and some other countries do practice slavery. Interesting that you seem to care about the issue only
where it concerns areas which no longer use slaves.

-I don't believe "whoever wins the war is automatically right".. I just believe that the side that won THAT war is right. I also believe that
whoever wins the war is in charge and makes the rules.

That's still "might makes right." Fits right in with my last observation... don't knock those who are stronger than you, because they are right. Only
go after those already beaten.

-I do believe in "big brother".. sure

Big Brother is a slave-owner. Those who live under a Big Brother regime are slaves to that regime.

-I don't have a problem with rural LIFE, more the seclousionist "only worry about yourself and your family" mentality.

Then you have a problem with rural life. That's how it works out here... the only way it can work out here. Live in the backwoods for six
months and get back to me... when you recover.

I haven't beat up anyone this week period.

On the wagon, eh?

My dream would would be everyone living is massive skyscraper filled indoor cities all bunched up living and working together collectively
towards one common goal.... Sum of all it's parts being greater and whatnot.

Gonna be fun getting food into that nice little bubble. The larger cities already are struggling to import enough food with their overburdened
infrastructure and transportation-unfriendly policies.

Give it a try and get back to me... again, when you recover. I hear acute malnutrition takes some time.

originally posted by: Lucidparadox
dream would would be everyone living is massive skyscraper filled indoor cities all bunched up living and working together collectively towards one
common goal.... Sum of all it's parts being greater and whatnot.

Fear is a powerful weapon... it has been used to get people to comply for millennia now. Apparently we have some people who are now afraid of
depending on themselves for anything.

I don't know which emotion that brings out more for me... terror that so many would be so afraid, or pity that so many would be so afraid.

TheRedneck

It has nothing to do with not being able to depend on myself.

Im a people person.. I LOVE people. I love large crowds, I love hustle and bustle, im energized by the masses. The more people around the more
complete I feel.

In addition to that, I believe working together we can achieve more than on our lonesome. think of what we could build of millions of people but their
time and resources together to comeplete a single project working towards on common goal.

Im just using this as an example, so dont take it literally.. but what im talking about is...

Why spend your time working away in the woods, homesteading with a secessionist lifestyle when you could potentially work with millions of others
building the largest structure on earth? Or maybe a giant spaceship like Star trek Enterprise?

What im saying is that we, humanity, and do so much more than what we are currently doing. the only thing that is stopping us is naysayers and
dissenting views opinions, red tape.. etc. There is almost nothing we cant build.

the only thing stopping Utopia form becoming a reality, are people who say utopia cant be a reality.

Im a people person.. I LOVE people. I love large crowds, I love hustle and bustle, im energized by the masses. The more people around the more
complete I feel.

Crowds of people are OK as long as you agree with them. Apparently you do. Disagree with the masses, and one is literally taking their life into their
own hands.

I have experienced this; I pray you never do.

In addition to that, I believe working together we can achieve more than on our lonesome. think of what we could build of millions of people
but their time and resources together to comeplete a single project working towards on common goal.

The goal is never common. Every human on the planet is thinking about themselves... not you, not your goal, not what you want or need or desire.
Someday you may come to realize that.

What im saying is that we, humanity, and do so much more than what we are currently doing. the only thing that is stopping us is naysayers and
dissenting views opinions, red tape.. etc. There is almost nothing we cant build.

No, there isn't... but I noticed you put 'dissenting views' in that list of reasons why we can't. You'll build nothing but more misery without
dissenting views. The hive mind is not always correct... it is actually rarely correct. The greatest inventors/creators of all time were always
eccentric: Da Vinci, Mozart, Newton, Marconi, Tesla, Einstein, Von Brawn, Musk, Hawkings, Gates, Jobs, Euler... all of them. Not a one went along with
a hive mind. They followed their own path and it led somewhere the hive mind never knew existed.

The biggest thing stopping us is the desire to somehow be a part of that hive mind, because a hive mind can never understand that which does not
follow what the hive mind already believes. I'm glad being a part of that hive mind energizes you. I am saddened to realize that means that you have
no ideas of your own to spend that energy on.

Im a people person.. I LOVE people. I love large crowds, I love hustle and bustle, im energized by the masses. The more people around the more
complete I feel.

Crowds of people are OK as long as you agree with them. Apparently you do. Disagree with the masses, and one is literally taking their life into their
own hands.

I have experienced this; I pray you never do.

In addition to that, I believe working together we can achieve more than on our lonesome. think of what we could build of millions of people
but their time and resources together to comeplete a single project working towards on common goal.

The goal is never common. Every human on the planet is thinking about themselves... not you, not your goal, not what you want or need or desire.
Someday you may come to realize that.

What im saying is that we, humanity, and do so much more than what we are currently doing. the only thing that is stopping us is naysayers and
dissenting views opinions, red tape.. etc. There is almost nothing we cant build.

No, there isn't... but I noticed you put 'dissenting views' in that list of reasons why we can't. You'll build nothing but more misery without
dissenting views. The hive mind is not always correct... it is actually rarely correct. The greatest inventors/creators of all time were always
eccentric: Da Vinci, Mozart, Newton, Marconi, Tesla, Einstein, Von Brawn, Musk, Hawkings, Gates, Jobs, Euler... all of them. Not a one went along with
a hive mind. They followed their own path and it led somewhere the hive mind never knew existed.

The biggest thing stopping us is the desire to somehow be a part of that hive mind, because a hive mind can never understand that which does not
follow what the hive mind already believes. I'm glad being a part of that hive mind energizes you. I am saddened to realize that means that you have
no ideas of your own to spend that energy on.

TheRedneck

But resources and manpower are finite. You need them to build something massive.

Believe me, Im used to being the odd man out.. im a liberal on AboveTopSecret for heavens sake

what you said is valid...

but what I take issue with is

The goal is never common. Every human on the planet is thinking about themselves... not you, not your goal, not what you want or need or desire.
Someday you may come to realize that.

Im saying that, that is the problem. We need to STOP thinking about OURSELVES and instead put the greater good first. That is, to a degree, the basis
on which the entire LEFT is built. Think about it.. us Liberals are always called "bleeding hearts" and "social justice warriors" and we get
scrutinized for wanting to raise taxes (not just on you, but on us as well) to pay for universal healthcare (for everyone), and free* education (for
everyone) to raise the floor of society. I dont ind if I have to pay an extra $1,000 in taxes every year if it means healthcare and better education.
Its not about ME and MY money... its about everyone.

Yes im an individual, but like JFK said, ask not what your country can do for you, but what YOU can do for your country.

What can I contribute, what can I do to make the lives of those around me easier?

combining our resources, work, and money through the government (*when run properly and efficiently) can yield better results than what any of us can
do individually.

______________

As a side note, I can definitely depend on myself, Ive been dirt poor with negative 4 figures in bank accounts eating nothing but free food and using
gas station rewards points for pizza for weeks/months on end, Ive worked 3 jobs at one time just to make rent, Ive learned to hunt/fish/grow. I can
build a generator... hell all I cant do is turn water into wine. I had a stint in the military, Im fairly confident I can defend myself. II now have a
job working for a major financial company and Im doing pretty well. Im only 30 years old and Ive done ALOT and accomplished ALOT.. and I just feel
that I have a responsibility to everyone out there who isnt doing well, who is down and out on hard times.

Its not fair I have a car and a nice place to stay and there's poeple sleeping in boxes... have I earned it?
Sure... Ive busted my ass.. but Ive also been lucky at times.. and there's so many people out there who cant catch a break and who started out even
worse than I did. Its my responsibility as a citizen to raise those people up and encourage others to do so. everyone no matter who they are, their
IQ, their disabilities, deficiencies as SO MUCH potential.. and sometimes people just need a break, they just need to know that they have nothing to
worry about. Food, shelter, transportation, and water in today's society should never be a concern for anyone.

I can agree with some of what you say, but cramming us all into skyscrapers is terrifying, life is already getting too effing cramped as is. There's
enough problems finding pet friendly places as is. Part of why I want my own house where I don't have someone else telling me what pet I can own, and
what size they are allowed to be.

But resources and manpower are finite. You need them to build something massive.

People do come together, every day,to build massive things and make massive discoveries. But they do it by surrounding themselves with educated people
with similar goals.

If I need to run an experiment that has a possibility of blowing up (and yes, I have a few of those), I cannot do it in a skyscraper. An explosion
would endanger lives and likely severely damage infrastructure. But I can do it here... I pick a spot that will not cause excessive damage, take
precautions should a fire break out, and run my experiment. I do not ask for anyone's permission (aka a 'permit'), nor do I have to allow any
inspections that would likley invalidate the results of the experiment. I just do it.

Most of my work does surround collaboration. There are plenty of people who have great ideas that they do not know how to implement; I can handle the
implementation. So we work together. Just because I live out in the sticks does not mean I am inaccessible. I am also online, so I can collaborate
virtually. In short, there is no need for a utopia to do what you want. Your utopia will actually prevent people from doing what you want!

Im saying that, that is the problem. We need to STOP thinking about OURSELVES and instead put the greater good first.

We need to, yes. Many of us do. But it is simply not possible to force everyone to do that. That's the disconnect; the present-day "liberal"
mindset says all we need to do is make everyone be nice. That's a great sentiment, but it doesn't work in reality. I can't make anyone do
anything! Neither can you. Even if you get enough manpower together to force people into that narrow mold you call "being nice," the tighter you
squeeze your grip the more people will slip through the cracks.

I have a feeling us "conservatives" (I still find that term funny, because I used to be a "liberal" and have never changed my views) would be happy to
help pay for healthcare, if we believed the present plans would work. As you said, resources are finite, and that includes our finances. Take
some away to fund an unworkable program, and less is available for workable programs. That is where "we have to do SOMETHING!" conflicts with
the idea of utopia... and where that hive mind problem comes into play. SOMETHING is not always the right thing to do... it depends on what
that SOMETHING is.

Its not fair I have a car and a nice place to stay and there's poeple sleeping in boxes... have I earned it?
Sure... Ive busted my ass.. but Ive also been lucky at times.. and there's so many people out there who cant catch a break and who started out even
worse than I did. Its my responsibility as a citizen to raise those people up and encourage others to do so. everyone no matter who they are, their
IQ, their disabilities, deficiencies as SO MUCH potential.. and sometimes people just need a break, they just need to know that they have nothing to
worry about. Food, shelter, transportation, and water in today's society should never be a concern for anyone.

Yes, you earned it. Yes, you probably had some luck along the way. Most people do.

And yes, it behooves us to help others. The difference is that when I help someone, I don't make a big deal out of it. I have personally found
families who were hungry, bought several bags of groceries, left them on their front porch in the middle of the night, knocked on the door until I
heard movement, then ran away. That's how you do good. I have taken people under my wing and helped them to realize their dreams (I'm doing it with
one guy now, and it's an awesome feeling watching him mature). I help others when I can; it's just part of being me.

But I have never demanded others help me. That is the difference. If someone wants to help out, great, but it is not my place to try and force
them. It's their place to make their own decisions.

That is where I have the biggest problem with what "liberal" has become: people like you think you have all the answers, when in actuality you have no
answers you are willing to put yourself out there for. Instead, you try and demand that people like me do the things we already do under your control.
No. Not gonna happen. I give because Jesus said to, not because you or some bureaucrat said to. My reward is in Heaven, not here with a bunch of
clueless idiots deciding they like me. Clueless idiots tend to give praise whether it is deserved or not, and they are as fickle with taking it as
they are with giving it... their praise means less than nothing. I would rather have their scorn; at least I can depend on that.

That's a big part of the problem... those people who want this utopia also seem to think that everyone lives the way they do, wants the things they
want, and thinks the way they think. There is no room in their utopian paradise for individual thought that contradicts theirs... in their mind, they
and they alone think correctly and everyone else must adapt to fit their world view.

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