err i linked wrong.. it's Wastewalker's Sandblasted Drape.. H TF.. would pinion still be better ? And the only reason i'm hesitant about voice is that insane amount of hit.. which I take in place of straight crit.. oh also i have beady eye mastery (522).. is that in any way an upgrade from powderburn (valor) ? i lose a lot of crit with those new pieces..

It's not an exact science, because haste is hard to give a specific weight value. However, I got Wastewalker's Sandblasted Drape 541 as being slightly better than Pinionfeather Greatcloak 528 in my lists. This is of course assuming you can make full use of the hit, and even then it's a fairly close call.

Voice of the Quilen is the superior weapon because it got more agi than all the other ranged weapons. Unless you actually get overcapped on hit and can't do anything about it, there's nothing to think about.

I would say your Beady-Eye Bracers are better, but again it's very close.

I'm not sure how/when this applies to other trinkets, but it appears that the rune's bad luck protection was broken.

So, don't use the rune until next week.

I coined a heroic thunderforged Bad Juju 2 days ago, it seems to have the exact same issue. I was wondering why I hardly ever saw any procs, most of the logs where I used the trinket in it had an uptime of less than 20% and I never saw it proc on the pull. I did have a crappy night, but I don't see how that effects not getting a proc on the pull.

Don't know if this has been fixed yet, I didn't really play my Hunter since yesterday.

Yes, one anecdotal log proves that a haste trinket is better. So I assume we can just dismiss all the sub 30-50% uptimes that you can get with bad juju and use one bad luck streak as the ultimate decider. The talisman of bloodlust is also subject to those same laws of probability. If haste is that much better then we can just reforge for it and still have more agility from bad juju. Oh and btw even with that bad luck proc steak that dela had with the H version with that uptime it still was worth more agility than H thunderforged version of the talisman of bloodlust. 22.9% uptime * 8279 agi proc = 1895.891 agi. The H thunderforged talismam of bloodlust has 1752 agility.

What do you mean if we are correct? Blizzard said that haste increases the real ppm rate and told us exactly how it increased the rate. It is linear, it's
Real PPM rate * (1 + haste % [i.e 1 + 30% = 1.30])

1 - e^(-1*rppm*(1+haste)*duration/60) = 70% up time for me scaling higher as the trinket procs (~68% from jinrokh log). I actually had 30s of up time on 5 stack today. You're basing a lot of the math on uptime of the proc at 1 stack and not 5 stacks or anything in between. And then you're not equally valuing the haste. Haste will not be our best stat until black arrow and serpent sting scale, but for this tier (at this moment) bloodlust is good.

Edit: The formula does not work for stacking trinkets as it will only give you the initial up time.

1 - e^(-1*rppm*(1+haste)*duration/60) = 70% up time for me scaling higher as the trinket procs (~68% from jinrokh log). I actually had 30s of up time on 5 stack today. You're basing a lot of the math on uptime of the proc at 1 stack and not 5 stacks or anything in between. And then you're not equally valuing the haste. Haste will not be our best stat until black arrow and serpent sting scale, but for this tier (at this moment) bloodlust is good.

Edit: The formula does not work for stacking trinkets as it will only give you the initial up time.

I have done no math pertaining to the taisman of bloodlust and how it stacks.

I'm not overly positive about our set bonuses, anyone else thought about the idea of skipping the 4p all together and go with 3 TF Heroic off-piece items for the huge agility boost? I mean, we have 3 off-pieces with crit/haste, 2 with 3 red sockets and 1 with 2 red sockets, they all give a good amount of agility from the socket bonus as well.

I'm not overly positive about our set bonuses, anyone else thought about the idea of skipping the 4p all together and go with 3 TF Heroic off-piece items for the huge agility boost? I mean, we have 3 off-pieces with crit/haste, 2 with 3 red sockets and 1 with 2 red sockets, they all give a good amount of agility from the socket bonus as well.

I thought about it, but remember the setbonus is extremely strong with 541 weapons (soon to be 549) and i can't see the agi increase being able to compensate, even with all offsets being HCTF.

Last edited by Dela2k10; 2013-04-20 at 09:54 AM.

Originally Posted by Jhazrun

You know how people talk about how you could just make a piece of rock with a billion health and damage and call it "hard"?

Ra-den is what you get when a designer thinks that's actually a really good idea.

Then the 4 bonus of the tier is worth only with ranged weapons of HC only?

Well it deals weapon damage so the better your weapon the stronger the bonus, there is still some AP scaling too, but the biggest factor is your weapon. I simmed the HCTF pieces to be a loss of ~3k last time but that was in significantly worse gear than i have now, not 100% sure of the numbers but i'm fairly certain that with a 549 weapon the 4pc will be too strong to beat with raw agility.

As for if 502 / 522 weapons are strong enough? No idea

Last edited by Dela2k10; 2013-04-20 at 11:24 AM.

Originally Posted by Jhazrun

You know how people talk about how you could just make a piece of rock with a billion health and damage and call it "hard"?

Ra-den is what you get when a designer thinks that's actually a really good idea.

Well it deals weapon damage so the better your weapon the stronger the bonus, there is still some AP scaling too, but the biggest factor is your weapon. I simmed the HCTF pieces to be a loss of ~3k last time but that was in significantly worse gear than i have now, not 100% sure of the numbers but i'm fairly certain that with a 549 weapon the 4pc will be too strong to beat with raw agility.

As for if 502 / 522 weapons are strong enough? No idea

that is my question xD, if for weapons of ToT Finder/Normal is worth it, anyone knows?

that is my question xD, if for weapons of ToT Finder/Normal is worth it, anyone knows?

any chance we could get some of our genius posters on this one? I would LOVE to be able to stop worrying about getting 4 piece if agi pieces are higher dps with lower ilvl weapons and would be awesome to know what the cutoff point of weapon ilvl is for 4 piece vs offset

any chance we could get some of our genius posters on this one? I would LOVE to be able to stop worrying about getting 4 piece if agi pieces are higher dps with lower ilvl weapons and would be awesome to know what the cutoff point of weapon ilvl is for 4 piece vs offset

If we're talking about ToT Finder gear levels, the tier bonuses are going to be worth way more than replacement non-tier finder gear. Way more.

If we're talking about ToT Normal gear levels, the tier bonuses, and assuming ToT LFR or Normal ranged weapon, the four piece is still going to be better than breaking it for even TF normal gear. The two piece is independent of weapon level, so there is no gear configuration that I know of (head, shoulder, chest, gloves, or legs) that would compete with that, even if it was a thunderforged upgrade. Heroic Thunderforged upgrade? That's a completely different story. I could have four piece 522 set with helm and shoulders, but FD shows a 2k dps loss if I were to take off my TF Gaze and HTF Static Shot. The set bonus is not enough to prevent you from taking most HTF upgrades in a head, shoulder, chest, hands or legs slot, regardless of weapon.

That being said, you should probably model your gear upgrades with either Femaledwarf.com or Simcraft to get an accurate answer. Almost any advice we could offer here is mired in "it depends".

If we're talking about ToT Finder gear levels, the tier bonuses are going to be worth way more than replacement non-tier finder gear. Way more.

If we're talking about ToT Normal gear levels, the tier bonuses, and assuming ToT LFR or Normal ranged weapon, the four piece is still going to be better than breaking it for even TF normal gear. The two piece is independent of weapon level, so there is no gear configuration that I know of (head, shoulder, chest, gloves, or legs) that would compete with that, even if it was a thunderforged upgrade. Heroic Thunderforged upgrade? That's a completely different story. I could have four piece 522 set with helm and shoulders, but FD shows a 2k dps loss if I were to take off my TF Gaze and HTF Static Shot. The set bonus is not enough to prevent you from taking most HTF upgrades in a head, shoulder, chest, hands or legs slot, regardless of weapon.

That being said, you should probably model your gear upgrades with either Femaledwarf.com or Simcraft to get an accurate answer. Almost any advice we could offer here is mired in "it depends".

I appreciate you responding since I saw the question posed earlier in the thread I was curious myself. For me it's not so much it depends I'll most likely never see any heroic content so for regular I'll stick with going for 4 piece with lei shins legs for off piece as I've read. Thanks again for the fast reply.

They need to force the RPPM bad luck protection to guarantee a proc once you've gone ~150% over the average procrate, but maybe add a small ICD so it can't proc back to back quite as much (30-35s?), and DEFINITELY make them so they cant overwrite themselves. Last week i had 5 juju procs during bloodlust, overwriting itself every 3-6seconds - utter waste.

I guess this was to be expected though, 8 years using the old system and RPPM is still very much in it's infancy.
I quite like the system, don't get me wrong, it just seems to work s a lot better on higher procrate effects like meta / setbonuses. The 0.5 RPPM stuff's protection doesn't ramp up fast enough that's all. Hopefully something that will be ironed out for next tier

Is this an addon or weak auras? I'd love to see the weak aura export if you have it.