With Canada and Quebec heading to another referendum, and other problems, like Alberta and social issues affecting our country. Does Canada need some kind of civil-war like America to fix out its problems to become a powerful country it once was.

Just look at the States, five bloody years of fighting each other and know they control the world.

s_lone

#2

Re: Does Canada need Civil-War to fix out its problems

Jan 9th, 2006

I can surely see a major internal Canadian conflict arrising within the next 10 years but I have deep faith in the non-violence of Canadian people. My guess is that we will witness the federal level of government implode on itself because of too much pressure coming from the provinces. Canada will probably be go through critical years of restucturing during which we will be quite vulnerable economically... Hopefully, we would indeed grow stronger as a community once things get back on track. I have a feeling however that all this will be happening in parallel to similar problems in the US. Whether or not this would be good or not I do not know...

To me, it is obvious that the biggest issue Canadians will have to face is what role they want to give the federal government. Quebec has been extremely outspoken about this but it concerns all provinces. While most Canadians don't agree with Quebec's constant demands for independance (not necessarily total separation), it will at least force Canada to clarify the roles of the federal and provincial governments.

Jay

#3

RE: Does Canada need Civil-War to fix out its problems

Jan 9th, 2006

If we did need a civil war it is one we could easliy fight without a shot fired. All provinces withhold all taxes payed to the Feds.....the feds and their current federalism would fall, and we could get back on track with the provinces keeping their EXCLUSIVE areas of jusirdiction and the feds could maybe focus on the assortment of responsibilities given to them; you know, things like the army, coast gaurd, pretty little bank notes...

s_lone

#4

Re: RE: Does Canada need Civil-War to fix out its problems

Jan 9th, 2006

Quote: Originally Posted by Jay

If we did need a civil war it is one we could easliy fight without a shot fired. All provinces withhold all taxes payed to the Feds.....the feds and their current federalism would fall, and we could get back on track with the provinces keeping their EXCLUSIVE areas of jusirdiction and the feds could maybe focus on the assortment of responsibilities given to them; you know, things like the army, coast gaurd, pretty little bank notes...

Right on! It is time provinces stand up for themselves.

Curiosity

#5

Re: Does Canada need Civil-War to fix out its problems

Jan 9th, 2006

Jersay

What an ugly thought. I wonder if you know Canada and Canadians very well?

The primary purpose of a democracy is to talk and argue and yes fight among the people - that is why elections are held - that is why there is fierce "campmanship" of ideologies.

It takes place the place of warlords, dictators, kings, and tribal insurrections such as what keeps the continent of Africa from becoming the jewel it could be as it has blessed by natural wealth and beauty.

I hope you were just surmising the thought - it was one posited by someone with a lack of historical perspective.

Canada became Canada with bloodshed. Are you looking for more?

annabattler

#6

RE: Does Canada need Civil-War to fix out its problems

Jan 9th, 2006

If,in fact,we Canadians truly wanted to effect changes...all we need to do is hold national "strike" days...days when we don't drive our cars,or buy gasoline...days when we don't purchase anything at a store.
Perhaps days where we bombard the feds with e mails about issues common to all Canadians...after all,if Rick Mercer can get over a million hits on his web site(the funny one about having Stockwell Day's first name changed to Doris),surely our elected representatives would sit up and take notice.
We're a pretty passive lot,we Canadians...and so we get the government we deserve.

jimmoyer

#7

RE: Does Canada need Civil-War to fix out its problems

Jan 9th, 2006

Well once again, how about a Senate that
has equal representation for each Province ?

And the lower House of Commons can
continue to represent population ?

Toro

#8

RE: Does Canada need Civi

Jan 9th, 2006

No.

MMMike

#9

Re: Does Canada need Civil-War to fix out its problems

Jan 9th, 2006

I voted yes. The ROC always bitches about T.O... well, we've formed our own massive army and when they're not busy shovelling snow during the winter, we'll go around the country busting some heads. Evening the score, so to speak. :P

Jay

#10

RE: Does Canada need Civil-War to fix out its problems

Jan 9th, 2006

Somehow....I don't think anyone will take the "T.O. army" seriously.

MMMike

#11

Re: Does Canada need Civil-War to fix out its problems

Jan 9th, 2006

London is not far away Jay. Be careful! :P

Jay

#12

RE: Does Canada need Civil-War to fix out its problems

Jan 9th, 2006

Jersay

#13

Re: Does Canada need Civil-War to fix out its problems

Jan 9th, 2006

Quote:

Jersay

What an ugly thought. I wonder if you know Canada and Canadians very well?

The primary purpose of a democracy is to talk and argue and yes fight among the people - that is why elections are held - that is why there is fierce "campmanship" of ideologies.

It takes place the place of warlords, dictators, kings, and tribal insurrections such as what keeps the continent of Africa from becoming the jewel it could be as it has blessed by natural wealth and beauty.

I hope you were just surmising the thought - it was one posited by someone with a lack of historical perspective.

Canada became Canada with bloodshed. Are you looking for more?

I don't want civil-war but it is a perspective. It is a perspective in any country, western or third-world. There is always a chance for violence.

Canada was made with bloodshed yes. The conflicts between aboriginal and European people as well as the 'genocide' by disease and biological warfare that left 90% of Aboriginal people dead in Canada. Then you could add the Sevens Year War, the War of 1812, and the Fenians, and finally Louis Riel.

However, one could say, even though I don't believe it, that the last armed conflict in Canada was the 1885 Rebellion. So if you go off that, it has been 120 yrs since conflict has touched the soil of Canada.

However with the increased tension growing in Canada, there is a chance that violence and civil-war could take place. Because of the situation in Canada, any war would be bloody but it is a possibility.

the caracal kid

#14

RE: Does Canada need Civil-War to fix out its problems

Jan 9th, 2006

it doesn't NEED a civil war, but it does need SOMETHING to stimulate the "sticks in the mud" to actually start rebuilding the country into a modern democracy (if that is what is wanted). Change won't come from the top because it means surrendering power. Change needs to come from the bottom, one way or another. No matter which route is taken, organization is necessary. This is why the separation issue is currently the best shot at forcing a recreating of the country.

Jersay

#15

Re: Does Canada need Civil-War to fix out its problems

Jan 9th, 2006

But isn't the seperation issue breaking up the country? Not alot of people are of the same thought that if Quebec sperates it will create a whole new and better Canada.

They think it would cause instability in Quebec, but also instability in Canada. Which could possibly lead to conflict or strife.

the caracal kid

#16

RE: Does Canada need Civil-War to fix out its problems

Jan 9th, 2006

Separation forces the issue of redefining canada.

perhaps a new constitution and federal government could be constructed and agreed upon by all, perhaps there would be a few new countries.

The outcome is uncertian, but the risks are worth the rewards because the current system is a failure.

Jay

#17

RE: Does Canada need Civil-War to fix out its problems

Jan 9th, 2006

Perhaps if we followed the one we have, we wouldn't have these separation issues.

the caracal kid

#18

RE: Does Canada need Civil-War to fix out its problems

Jan 9th, 2006

the current constitution is flawed, as is our method of government.

Timetrvlr

#19

RE: Does Canada need Civil-War to fix out its problems

Jan 9th, 2006

Does Canada need Civil-war? Civil wars kill people, lot's of people including kids. Do you really want that? Yeah, you are certifiable to be promoting war, any war!

iamcanadian

#20

RE: Does Canada need Civil-War to fix out its problems

Jan 9th, 2006

This is a bull**** topic. Canada will never be in a civil war regardless what happens.

If Quebec wants to sepparate it will. If there is conflict it will only be inside of Quebec. The rest of Canada will not be affected in the least. No one outside of Quebec will rush in there to fight for either case.

Like the FLQ crisis of the 70's, it was only Quebecois fighting Quebecois.

Finder

#21

Re: Does Canada need Civil-War to fix out its problems

Jan 9th, 2006

This is one of those times "iamcanadian" which we talked about before where I think you are some guy with tin foil wrapped around his head. This is one of those times again

Jersay

#22

Re: Does Canada need Civil-War to fix out its problems

Jan 9th, 2006

So it seems to be reasonable that a majority of guys on the forums doesn't want civil-war.

I don't want civil-war, it is just interesting to see the understanding of the mindset of fellow Canadians and how to fix the country.

I want to work for the United Nations, and I am against war so I don't think it is fair to state that I am

Quote:

Yeah, you are certifiable to be promoting war, any war!

promoting any war.

promoting any war, I am just trying to see how the people of this forum feel. I don't see why people should kill themselves over a stupid argument or any kind of issue.

Quote:

This is a bull**** topic. Canada will never be in a civil war regardless what happens.

If Quebec wants to sepparate it will. If there is conflict it will only be inside of Quebec.

Quebec is still recognized as a part of Canada until recognized by the international community. Not only do they have to gain recognition from Canada but also the international community. So any unrest in Quebec would be Canada's unrest.

iamcanadian

#23

RE: Does Canada need Civil-War to fix out its problems

Jan 10th, 2006

Anyone that thinks Canada can possibly ever have a civil war over Quebec separation has tin foil for brains. It is more likely that aliens from another planet will take over.

Jersay

#24

Re: Does Canada need Civil-War to fix out its problems

Jan 10th, 2006

Quote:

Anyone that thinks Canada can possibly ever have a civil war over Quebec separation has tin foil for brains. It is more likely that aliens from another planet will take over.

You have to look at the facts. Any country, you don't need to be a democracy, a dictatorship or a tyrant to know that any nation could be effected by different kinds of levels of violence down the road and it is stupid that one nation might not be effected by it because no one knows what is going to happen.

Just look at France, three weeks of violence that died out, they are a democracy, and the rioters tried to overthrow the government of France.

It could effect anyone.

BFG

#25

Re: Does Canada need Civil-War to fix out its problems

Jan 10th, 2006

This is easy to fix....
Let's look at the senario here:
Canada is a "Bi-Lingual" Country, thanks to Mr. A-Hole in the 70's.
"WE" are supposed to have English AND French on the majority of the federal and provincial road signs ETC.... EXCEPT for Quebec where it is illegal for ENGLISH to be on a sign... WTF is that?

I think the next vote the whole country should vote whether or not to kick Quebec OUT of Canada! We have a leader of a "seperatist party" on a National Debate.... HOW?!
If this was America these people would be tried for TREASON!
What makes them so "special"?
EVERYONE knows multiculturalism does NOT work.
This is Canada... speak ENGLISH!
There are a heck of a lot more Ukranian, German, Chinese (to name but a few) speaking people in this country than there are French.... you don't see THEM shoving their language down the throats of the rest of the country.

I say YES to the Civil War, but no blood shed, just justice.

I dare the leaders to have a "VOTE".
I would be the first one in line!

Git' R Done!

Curiosity

#26

Re: Does Canada need Civil-War to fix out its problems

Jan 10th, 2006

Quote: Originally Posted by Jersay

Quote:

Anyone that thinks Canada can possibly ever have a civil war over Quebec separation has tin foil for brains. It is more likely that aliens from another planet will take over.

You have to look at the facts. Any country, you don't need to be a democracy, a dictatorship or a tyrant to know that any nation could be effected by different kinds of levels of violence down the road and it is stupid that one nation might not be effected by it because no one knows what is going to happen.

Just look at France, three weeks of violence that died out, they are a democracy, and the rioters tried to overthrow the government of France.

It could effect anyone.

Jersay

What "riot" are you talking about - do you mean the last terrorist attack on the people in Paris? That wasn't a government overthrow that was gang warfare to "terrorize" the people in a large city.

The Islamic fanatics residing in France were part of a resistance movement because France has been getting tough on all the new laws the French government is denying them. They aren't getting their way. Nor are they in Australia or Spain and the governments are standing firm they are going to live according to the laws of the host country.

Where are you getting these ideas from? I hope not from your "teachers". I wonder if you are really in a school that puts out this stuff.

DasFX

#27

RE: Does Canada need Civil-War to fix out its problems

Jan 10th, 2006

What exactly would a civil war do for us? Either the ROC of Canada would lose and we'd end up having a hostile force as a neighbour or Quebec would be forced to remain in Canada which would only fuel more distain and resentment.

Do you really think the US civil war brought the two sides together? Internally there are still great divisions in the US between North and South.

I think not

#28

Re: RE: Does Canada need Civil-War to fix out its problems

Jan 10th, 2006

Quote: Originally Posted by DasFX

Do you really think the US civil war brought the two sides together? Internally there are still great divisions in the US between North and South.

The "divisions" are religious and to a lesser degree social in nature, both North and South refer to themselves as Americans, there are no issues of indentity involved or drawing lines of us and them. Quebeckers (those who wish to separate) don't even call themselves Canadians or want to have anything to do with Canada, vastly different in nature.

Curiosity

#29

Re: Does Canada need Civil-War to fix out its problems

Jan 10th, 2006

ITN

Thank you - your brevity and clarity were far better than I could have done - I was sitting there trying to write something without getting upset at that misinformation when you posted your message...... :P

poligeek

#30

Re: Does Canada need Civil-War to fix out its problems

Jan 10th, 2006

War is never the answer to anything. There is never a "need" for war, and only someone who has never experienced war first had can possibly put the words "need" and "war" together.

This does not mean there are not motivations for war, that's why they do happen.

As to the possiblity of Canada having a civil war? I think it's improbable.

If Canada can retain Quebec is a matter of if enough Quebequers feel that they have sufficient self-determiniation in Canadian federalism or if they feel that they are indeed unrepresented.

All this being said, I think there is general agreement among Canadians that we "need" change. The disputes are over what kind of change and how that change should be achieved.

Changes to senate, more positive constructive actions instead of apathy, and electoral reform are all good starting positions, and far more constructive than war.