TCW vs. Rebels debates are not allowed in the Television forum. As in, discussions that descend into TCW/Rebels bashing/gushing will be subject to Mod action. Contrasting the themes, story lines, characters, etc. between the shows is allowed (welcomed, even). "Versus" debates/arguments, however, are a deal-breaker.

Looking back on it Ahsoka probably was a little more fun when she had more attitude back then.

Ahsoka was far more fun when she was just Anakin's feisty Padawan as opposed to Padawan Awesomeness who can do no wrong and whom no one can survive without.

I liked almost all of seasons 1 and 2 and quite a bit of season 3; season 4 was a big letdown and season 5 thus far has been the same.

My problem with Ahsoka is she is so mature in last three episodes she has the personality of a stuffed bear.

I remember there being a lot of complaints about her being a smart ass in season 1-2. Personally I preferred that over what we have now. Given what's already happened and what's rumored to happen this season, her now quiet/laid back personality makes sense to me. It didn't last season however IMO.

I guess I ought to move to the Ahsoka thread before I derail this one further.

Looking back on it Ahsoka probably was a little more fun when she had more attitude back then.

Ahsoka was far more fun when she was just Anakin's feisty Padawan as opposed to Padawan Awesomeness who can do no wrong and whom no one can survive without.

I liked almost all of seasons 1 and 2 and quite a bit of season 3; season 4 was a big letdown and season 5 thus far has been the same.

My problem with Ahsoka is she is so mature in last three episodes she has the personality of a stuffed bear.

I remember there being a lot of complaints about her being a smart ass in season 1-2. Personally I preferred that over what we have now. Given what's already happened and what's rumored to happen this season, her now quiet/laid back personality makes sense to me. It didn't last season however IMO.

I guess I ought to move to the Ahsoka thread before I derail this one further.

Damn us, never satisfied are we? Either to much or to little. And good idea.

In the opening scenes, I noticed that Luminara's robes were subtly different from every other source. They were tighter over the torso, notably the chest. Soon after we are treated to a full on Ventress butt shot, who generously forgot to wear her sash this episode. Something, something, TCW sexualization. I'm not complaining.

The boarding action was just really cool, with boarding pods smashing through hulls, dropping suitably menacing battle droids, who take up their classic march and overrun the clones with numbers. Just more perfect utilization of battle droids in season one.

Luminara had some nice choreography, I can tell they gave her her own style instead of just recycling sequences used by other Jedi. It really fits with EU descriptions of her style. Well done.

I never really noticed just how dark Ahsoka was in these early episodes. She put her lightsaber to Gunray's throat and she's constantly taunting her enemies and not like Kenobi does. Kenobi is much more...civilized. We all dismiss it as "snippy", but I think it appeared to be a little more than that.

Ahsoka got clowned by Ventress and locked in Gunray's cell. At this point they're still making an effort to prevent Ahsoka from appearing overpowered. Also, lol.

Ventress using explosives as a distraction is just classic Ventress, brilliant use.

I could go on and on about how I hated Luminara's arrogant turn, but I've done it before. Instead, I'll tell you what I was reminded of by the scene and what I maybe would have liked more.

After Ventress jumps down into the elevator shaft and Luminara holds Ahsoka back, I had a flashback to the end of the AOTC speeder chase when Kenobi holds up Anakin and tells him "Patience. Use the Force. Think." "He went in there to hide, not to run." I think it would have been nice if Luminara had passed on similar knowledge to Ahsoka, instead of Ahsoka instructing Luminara. After Luminara saves Ahsoka from being crushed by a turbolift, it could go something like this:

Ahsoka: But she'll escape!
Luminara: Escape is not her plan. I must face her alone. Guard Gunray, he is her true target.

lol blatant rip from ANH in bold.

The duel between Ventress and Luminara was fantastic. The way Luminara was taunting Ventress, about her sloppy imitation of Dooku's style, actually kinda came off as sorta like Dun Moch. Just excellent choreography here and a very convincing contest.

When Luminara finds that little struggling WED Treadwell droid, she cracks the slightest smile and helps it out. Shows some humanity under that stoic exterior.

Ventress laughing while blocking two blades was just awesome. By this point, I was just loving it and laughing along with her.

Okay, a GRENADE literally explodes directly underneath Ahsoka and she not only survives but escapes relatively unscathed. LOL, c'mon. Sigh, what might have been.

The music that plays as Ventress leaves the ship was awesome, and I rarely notice music.

Argyus getting shanked in the back was, again, awesome. There's just something I love about villains literally stabbing fools in the back.

Unfortunately, the episode couldn't end without Luminara slobbering all over Ahsoka. This was probably the beginning of the Ahsoka love show, it happens a few more times in S1 and IIRC really takes off in S2.

When I first reviewed this episode, I took away a point for dragging Luminara's character through the mud and the Ahsoka slobber, but this time it was just too much fun. What a fantastic Ventress episode.

10/10

Edit: I didn't even really mention Gunray, who was very amusing and very well written. Still, his VA is poor, I could do better. HIRE ME!

I still disagree with your Ahsoka opinions, I thought the balance between admonishment and priase was well handled because Ahsoka was by turns wrong and right. I do agree with just about every other point you make though. Has Paul Dini written any other episodes? It's like everything he touches turns to gold isn't it; I loved the old Batman Animated Series and thought Arkham Asylum was awesome. We need more Dini!

I still disagree with your Ahsoka opinions, I thought the balance between admonishment and priase was well handled because Ahsoka was by turns wrong and right. I do agree with just about every other point you make though. Has Paul Dini written any other episodes? It's like everything he touches turns to gold isn't it; I loved the old Batman Animated Series and thought Arkham Asylum was awesome. We need more Dini!

DINI is genius! We DO need more of him and not the guy who wrote Umbara.

Looking back on it Ahsoka probably was a little more fun when she had more attitude back then.

Ahsoka was far more fun when she was just Anakin's feisty Padawan as opposed to Padawan Awesomeness who can do no wrong and whom no one can survive without.

I liked almost all of seasons 1 and 2 and quite a bit of season 3; season 4 was a big letdown and season 5 thus far has been the same.

Now she's the most super powerful thing in the GFFA. Makes Anakin and Obi-Wan look bad, ect, ect

We get it Filoni.

What kind of viscious rumors are being promoted here? As I recall Steela died and Ahsoka was unable to save her. Ahsoka just got her butt kicked by Hondo. Why are certain individuals picking and choosing what they want to see and what they want to put the blinders on their eyes for?

What kind of viscious rumors are being promoted here? As I recall Steela died and Ahsoka was unable to save her. Ahsoka just got her butt kicked by Hondo. Why are certain individuals picking and choosing what they want to see and what they want to put the blinders on their eyes for?

The "rumors" that are obviously true and are being ignored by "Ahsoka fans."

Ahsoka did get shot by the canon of a down CIS gunship in the Onderon Arc and barely got a scratch from it. Yeah we can fanon it all we want with saying it was damaged or whatever. Still all Ahsoka got from it was a scratch?

Ahsoka did get shot by the canon of a down CIS gunship in the Onderon Arc and barely got a scratch from it. Yeah we can fanon it all we want with saying it was damaged or whatever. Still all Ahsoka got from it was a scratch?

Again with the rumors!!?!! I've already posted a pic showing a gaping hole in the back of Ahsoka's shoulder after that laser blast. It was not just a "scratch".

I'll start by saying I thought they did a nice job transitioning from Bombad Jedi to Cloak of Darkness and into Lair of Grievous. It was very smooth, without an overly long recap.

Lots of action in this episode, including a cool somersault from Vebb that we see from a droid's 1st person view. A neat little camera angle they don't often use.

Clearly, TCW was portraying Grievous as a Jedi killer in this episode. He has the Padawan braids (I think that's what they were) and the lightsaber trophies. The direction they took with Grievous in later episodes is even more damnable considering this episode.

For some reason the good guys were trying to capture Grievous instead of just killing him. I hate when writers fall into this trap.

Grievous' doctor was an amusing character, and I think it's quite telling that Grievous would choose a droid to take care of him.

Grievous supposedly traps the Jedi in his lair by simply closing the front door on them. Why not just cut it down? Again, writing traps.

R6 throwing the Magnaguard off his starfighter by spinning was kinda funny. Clever little droid.

What makes this episode so entertaining is just how simple it is. "Lair of Grievous" couldn't be more accurate, it's just about his classic villain lair with all the expected trappings.

Grievous has lava traps? AWESOME. And he has a monstrous beast that looks like a Minotaur? AWESOME. And trap doors? And doors with puzzles on them? What a villain.

It's just hilarious, really. If you're going to be a villain, you have to make your dwelling a death trap just in case those pesky heroes show up.

Gor got hacked up in surprisingly brutal fashion. I was pretty stunned when I saw him standing there with no arms.

To back up Grievous' reputation as a Jedi killer, he kills Nahdar Vebb, a Jedi Knight who, though flawed, wasn't without skill.

They used Vebb to demonstrate how the war can change Jedi. It can be very easy for them to see the value of aggression, they can see it work so well in war, it's a really easy lesson to learn. It just shows how quickly your mindset can change, how easy it is to let the dark side in.

The duel between Grievous and Fisto was solid, with Fisto performing as he should. Fisto disappearing into the mist and dual-wielding were nice moments, and the Force was the great equalizer in their battle, as it should be. Just really solid writing there. Fisto ultimately chooses to retreat instead of pushing the fight out of revenge, easily demonstrating the difference between master and apprentice.

Just an amusing episode with lots of action. The only real flaw was retconning Grievous' EU origins, which I loved and considered subtracting a point for, but I'm not going to.

I'll start by saying I thought they did a nice job transitioning from Bombad Jedi to Cloak of Darkness and into Lair of Grievous. It was very smooth, without an overly long recap.

Lots of action in this episode, including a cool somersault from Vebb that we see from a droid's 1st person view. A neat little camera angle they don't often use.

Clearly, TCW was portraying Grievous as a Jedi killer in this episode. He has the Padawan braids (I think that's what they were) and the lightsaber trophies. The direction they took with Grievous in later episodes is even more damnable considering this episode.

For some reason the good guys were trying to capture Grievous instead of just killing him. I hate when writers fall into this trap.

Grievous' doctor was an amusing character, and I think it's quite telling that Grievous would choose a droid to take care of him.

Grievous supposedly traps the Jedi in his lair by simply closing the front door on them. Why not just cut it down? Again, writing traps.

R6 throwing the Magnaguard off his starfighter by spinning was kinda funny. Clever little droid.

What makes this episode so entertaining is just how simple it is. "Lair of Grievous" couldn't be more accurate, it's just about his classic villain lair with all the expected trappings.

Grievous has lava traps? AWESOME. And he has a monstrous beast that looks like a Minotaur? AWESOME. And trap doors? And doors with puzzles on them? What a villain.

It's just hilarious, really. If you're going to be a villain, you have to make your dwelling a death trap just in case those pesky heroes show up.

Gor got hacked up in surprisingly brutal fashion. I was pretty stunned when I saw him standing there with no arms.

To back up Grievous' reputation as a Jedi killer, he kills Nahdar Vebb, a Jedi Knight who, though flawed, wasn't without skill.

They used Vebb to demonstrate how the war can change Jedi. It can be very easy for them to see the value of aggression, they can see it work so well in war, it's a really easy lesson to learn. It just shows how quickly your mindset can change, how easy it is to let the dark side in.

The duel between Grievous and Fisto was solid, with Fisto performing as he should. Fisto disappearing into the mist and dual-wielding were nice moments, and the Force was the great equalizer in their battle, as it should be. Just really solid writing there. Fisto ultimately chooses to retreat instead of pushing the fight out of revenge, easily demonstrating the difference between master and apprentice.

Just an amusing episode with lots of action. The only real flaw was retconning Grievous' EU origins, which I loved and considered subtracting a point for, but I'm not going to.