The 'World of Warcraft' Battle for Azeroth expansion pack goes on pre-sale today, with some features available immediately.

Blizzard Entertainment

Edited on 1/31 to update the availability of Dark Iron Dwarf paladins.

The World of Warcraft: Battle for Azeroth expansion goes on pre-sale today, and those who pre-order get a chance to unlock and play new "allied" race characters.

We caught up with game director Ion Hazzikostas and creative director Alex Afrasiabi to ask a bunch of (sometimes stupid) questions about the factions and the expansion for the popular massively multiplayer online fantasy game. Battle for Azeroth releases in Summer 2018.

Heather Newman: Let's jump right in. We have Void Elves as a playable race. The only Void-like elf we’ve seen so far in Legion is Alleria Windrunner. She does some pretty cool things in the dungeon in which we’re introduced to the beginnings of her real power. Are Void Elves going to get to do some of those cool things, rip open portals and break open sides of buildings and suck the life essence out of things and throw it back at them?

Newman: It’ll make getting into the auction house in Stormwind so much easier.

Hazzikostas: No clipping, go through any wall you want, because Void. I mean, obviously, yes, they are an elite group of elves trained to harness the power of the Void. Definitely connected to Alleria. And as we’ve seen, I’m a shaman, Thrall’s a shaman, he’s a better shaman than I am. The great heroes in WoW can often do things that exceed the powers of the player character, but there are a lot of parallels to be drawn there.

Newman: How did you select the classes that the new races could be?

Hazzikostas: We’re viewing these as new races and what makes sense for them to be. Obviously when you look at the Highmountain Tauren, they’re culturally very similar to the [regular] Tauren. [They have] moose horns versus bull horns. But the question of, what does it make sense for them to be, we came up with the same answers as the regular Tauren.

But does it make sense for a Nightborne to be a paladin? Likely not, given their nature. And so it’s more of a case by case examination of what makes sense for a given allied race, what feels cool and fits their culture and their flavor, and trying to err on the side of being permissive, because if you play a certain class and are very excited about a race, we want to make that possible if it can make sense.

Newman: Will all classes have a playable allied race for their faction in the expansion?

Hazzikostas: Not demon hunter or death knight.

Newman: If I’m a druid, which doesn’t often get new races, is there going to be a playable allied race for me to choose on both factions?

A Highmountain Tauren from Battle for Azeroth.

Blizzard Entertainment

Alex Afrasiabi: Yeah. We’ve seen Highmountain Tauren of course.

Hazzikostas: Not currently on the Alliance, no. Because for Void Elves, Lightforged Draenei, and Dark Iron Dwarves, none of those, again—asking the question, does it make sense for any of them? Are they in touch with those primal forces and restoration and shapeshifting? The answer’s no.

Newman: Shadow bear!

Afrasiabi: Void bear?

Hazzikostas: Not quite buying it. I don’t think they’d be too welcome in the Moonglade.

Newman: Are there other examples like that, where there are classes that just don’t make any sense at all with the selections available at launch?

Afrasiabi: Paladin for Void Elves, because that’s weird.

Hazzikostas: Exactly. But on the Alliance side, Dark Iron Dwarves can be paladins when those come around. We’re not approaching it from a perspective of, every box needs to be ticked and we’ll shoehorn something in if it doesn’t feel like a natural fit. But of course, in the future, this is a system that opens the door for more expansion and the addition of new races to both factions. That’s something we’ll keep in mind.

Newman: It was pretty clear, from looking at the factions you worked with in the new Battle for Azeroth zones, that they were largely based on current character models. Which leads everybody to speculate, we’ll have Vulpera on the Horde! Fox people! Is it fair to say that if we were looking at the spectrum of immediate possibilities for future playable allied races, that might be a good pool to draw from?

Afrasiabi: TBD?

Hazzikostas: Yeah.

Afrasiabi: The nice thing with allied races, especially because they’re not technically sub-races, is we can kind of do anything. Sky’s the limit.

Newman: Do you have a feel for how often you want to release new playable allied races?

Hazzikostas: Not yet. We need to learn how the content is experienced, how players are using them, how players are enjoying them, and see what makes sense. Obviously adding new races is exciting, giving players a way to express themselves, to customize the appearance of their character in a new way. Those are all great things. But there almost certainly is a world where there are too many races.

This isn’t real, but if there were 40 different races on the Alliance at some point, just walking around the city you don’t know what’s what anymore. You lose any sense of silhouettes. You lose a sense of identity. It’s important that we don’t get too far down that road.

Newman: Then there’s the whole, how many characters can you squeeze into a server list?

Hazzikostas: We are increasing the character limit for servers to reflect allied race availability. There are six new allied races. If you’ve maxed out all your characters on a server, you unlock the new allied races, and you want to make alts of all of them, we don’t want to make you delete a character. You will in fact be able to just scroll.

The Lightforged Draenei are one of the Battle for Azeroth's new allied races.

Blizzard Entertainment

Newman: For folks who are starting over again, who almost by definition have played through all the content at least once, do you expect any pushback? Allied races start at level 20, but even with the zone scaling that makes monsters and quests "level up" with the player, they have technically seen it all before.

Hazzikostas: Potentially. The true altaholics out there, maybe. But I think the changes that zone scaling will bring to the experience are very significant. I think that leveling a new character in the post-scaling world will just have a much better pacing to it. There’s going to be a lot of interest, even aside from allied races, in going back and revisiting that experience.

Also, the allied races starting at 20—couple of reasons for that. Part of it is, yes, the existing starting experiences are very closely themed to specific races in a way that wouldn’t make as much sense if you’re an allied race coming in. But we’re also giving that storytelling and background as a part of the experience that unlocks access to the race.

Part of playing a Pandaren from level one to 10 is understanding Pandaren culture. Well you learn to understand Nightborne culture just by playing through Suramar, by adventuring with them, by rebuilding their civilization, and then the final unlock campaign you’ll complete to earn their allegiance.

Newman: Talk a bit about the decision from a story perspective, the world perspective. I think everyone was curious as to what happened to Jaina Proudmoore. I’m not sure as many people were curious about what happened to the former Horde Warchief Thrall, especially since he kinda said, aw, my hammer isn’t talking to me anymore, and then wandered off. I think everyone thought that was (former senior vice president) Chris Metzen’s goodbye when he retired.

Afrasiabi: We consider the faction divide foundational to Warcraft since [its real-time strategy] times. As we kind of look at the equity we have in certain fiction, this is the one that’s at the top of the list. We’ve danced around it for so many expansions now that we feel like it’s time to pay it off.

Now, there’s some of the story that you haven’t seen yet, of course. Actually there’s quite a lot of the story you haven’t seen yet. Over the next months, more of that will come to light.

As we’re talking about things like enemies, we’ve fought everything. We’ve fought everything under the sun and then some. We’ve gone to other planets, other universes, you name it.

Newman: Back in time!

A warfront in Battle for Azeroth.

Blizzard Entertainment

Afrasiabi: Back in time. It’s interesting. I think about this a lot, because I’m a nerd. Especially in Warcraft, do we become what we kill? And we’ve got these characters in the game, these Alliance and Horde players, who have done it all, and in killing an old god, do we take some of that with us? In killing an elemental lord, do we take some of that with us? A dragon aspect. A titan. I think we do.

And so we’ve set the stage for, when we say, what is the most badass thing out there? I would argue it’s the living god that put an axe in the side of a titan, more so than the titan itself. So when I look at a player character and I say, look, we have a world populated with living gods at this point, that have ideological differences that cannot be righted, what happens in that world? Well, this happens.

I’ve got this group of gods and this group of gods that will never get over their differences between the humans and the Forsaken, the orcs and humans. Never. The Night Elves and the trolls. The Night Elves and the Tauren. I mean, there’s so many different racial divides that have melted away into the background, but they’re still there. For those races, those things are still there.

How much land have the Night Elves taken from the Tauren, from the trolls? These are the things we want to settle, and that’s what I think this expansion is about. Now, of course we’ll see other things come into the foreground as we adventure through this, because certainly there are forces in this universe that want the outcome of this. So we’ll see. That’s the TL;DR version.

Orcs and humans: Why can't we all just get along?

Blizzard Entertainment

Newman: From a practical perspective, it seems like one of the reasons why that conflict has been downplayed -- outside of player versus player, we’ll focus on PvE for the moment – has been for, in some ways, player community reasons. The idea that you have central hubs where people wander around with each other. The idea that as much as possible, players who are on opposing faction sides don’t feel like they’re estranged from friends that might play on the other side.

Hazzikostas: I don’t know about that, actually? Honestly I would almost say that we would like you to be estranged from your friends who play the opposite faction. You should cut those people out of your lives and question their choices in life. [He laughs.]

It’s more that we’ve sacrificed those ideals, frankly, in the name of practicality in some cases. Sometimes it’s storytelling. There’s one big enemy and you have to band together. We’re moving to the Broken Shore and moving [the city of] Dalaran together. It’s a neutral hub.

But there is value in that separation, and it is a little bit weird. I’m glad to see us returning to separate faction hubs in Battle for Azeroth. Yes, in Dalaran the Alliance and Horde have their separate quarters that’ll teleport the other faction out, but you’re using the bank as a human right next to an orc who’s talking to the same teller. And that’s a sacrifice in the name of convenience and playability in some cases, but it’s not the goal.

Newman: I’m assuming that my long-time dream of dungeoning with my friends who play on the opposing faction continues to be a long-time dream.

Hazzikostas: Indeed.

Afrasiabi: Full of disappointments today.

Newman: I was playing through a BFA demo, and I opened up my character sheet, and look at that, I’m at item level 150, and my food gives me a +4 bonus. So I take it we have a stat squish coming.

Hazzikostas: No, your character is just really weak.

Newman: That could explain a lot of things, actually.

Hazzikostas: We’ve learned some things from what we did in [the Warlords of Draenor expansion]. We’re doing the process again, hoping to do things in a way that makes it less likely we’ll need one in the very near future and makes it easier for us to do if and when we need to.

Their armor LOOKS great, but it has substantially lower stats. Squish ahoy!

Blizzard Entertainment

The only big difference this time around is we’re also compressing item level to properly reflect what we’re doing to the rest of the game. It was odd that we kept item level unchanged in Warlords. Especially with leveling, there’s this weird experience where you might go from one expansion to the next, replace your item level 300 Wrath [of the Lich King] gear with item level 400 Cataclysm gear, and it’s one percent stronger. It has like two more stamina or something, and it’s 100 item levels. Which is very confusing, especially to new players, as they try to understand what item level even means.

Newman: So is that scaling down all the way to folks who are starting as a level 20 in the new races? Am I going to be item level three?

Hazzikostas: No. We’re making progression and item power linear from one to 110. The way it’s always been from one to 60. Right? When you’re level 30 you get item level 30 gear. When you’re level 50 you get item level 50 gear. That’s how things increase. But then over the years, because of those endgame periods, we would introduce dozens of item levels to reflect raid tiers that lost meaning once that expansion was no longer relevant. We’re just compressing that down.

Newman: We had additional legendary gear items in Legion. It seemed like it was fairly engaging from a player point of view. Are we thinking about doing something like that in Battle for Azeroth as well? How do we feel like that experience turned out?

Hazzikostas: We learned a lot of things from that. I think Legion legendaries are called Legion legendaries for a reason. They’re something that will not be carried forward directly into Battle for Azeroth. Those items still exist, but they’ll degrade in power as you get closer to 120.

At the end of the day, a lot of these systems reflect our pursuit of the goal of making items more interesting and more exciting than just 20 more haste or 20 more crit on your gloves. Getting a pair of braces as a fire mage that gives you a reason to hard cast Pyroblast and see some crazy numbers, that’s a cool item to get, because it changes the way you approach the game.

Obviously there were some issues with their frequency, with how they were distributed, large gaps in power between them. We’ve done a lot of work over the course of Legion to correct that. But really, what carries forward the spirit of legendaries, I think, is the Heart of Azeroth [legendary necklace] and the azurite armor system [which adds abilities to players]. In many ways that combines the best of what we learned from artifact weapons and from legendaries.

So you’ll be able to get these pieces of armor, whether it’s a helmet or a chest piece, and customize them and activate interesting powers that suit your play style.

Freehold, one of the new dungeon areas in Battle for Azeroth.

Blizzard Entertainment

Newman: Are we going to see, as part of that system, the resurgence of some of the legendary or artifact abilities that people have now grown to think of as baseline? Some seem to be showing up as talents, some as azurite armor choices.

Hazzikostas: There is no one size fits all approach. I think it’s—we removed the artifact. We see what remains afterwards. We look at whether that class or spec feels complete, whether they feel elegant. And in some cases there’s a big hole that was left behind. Every [player class specification] will see different approaches taken.

Newman: One of the things I noticed while playing through the demo was the fact that a few really interesting historical abilities were mixed into the spellbook. Are we bringing buffs back?

Hazzikostas: There’s something flavorful about just Prayer, Fortitude, Mark of the Wild—I have some benefit I can provide to my group. Both from the perspective of you’re stronger in a full group than you are when you’re alone—there’s something weighty about that.

But also just encouraging diversity in a world where the community has decided that class X is the best healer, or class Y is the best ranged DPS. It’s nice having reasons to still want a diverse slate of companions, and to have that be the optimal group because that reflects the player base. Even if the mage who’s the top dog right now likes being the top dog and gets to rock everything, well, the tides of balance shift, and when they’re not, they’ll appreciate having Arcane Intellect, and a reason for a group that doesn’t have a mage to actively look for a mage.

There’s something good, when you’re leading a pickup group, to not just say, we need somebody, let’s get the guy with the highest item level. But rather, let’s find a hunter because we could really use a hunter right now. That makes being a hunter feel cooler.

Newman: The folks who were leveling up in the new playable races, are they going to have custom experiences when they hit Legion?

Nightborne (left) are one of the new playable allied races in Battle for Azeroth.

Blizzard Entertainment

Afrasiabi: We have talked about doing some things, where—for example, [the] Nightborne [race], does it really make sense that you do the intro to Suramar? Leveling up? Probably not. So where it makes sense, we’ll nip and tuck and prune, or add.

Newman: In terms of the playable experience through the new islands and the new factions, it’s difficult to get a sense of scale. In terms of how it feels, compared to what we experienced with Legion, how are these new continents when you get there?

Afrasiabi: They feel big. They’re sizable. And we have to also remember something. Your experience leveling up is going to be a scant several hours, I suppose. There’s some amount of that. But then once you do hit max level, the entirety of both continents opens up to you. You’ll be doing a whole bunch of different things there, from your standard questing, dungeon stuff, to epic, long chain quests and other various things. So you will have a fairly large world to explore, and it should be pretty awesome.

Newman: Is the selection of new dungeons and world quests and things like that on par with what we saw in Legion?

Hazzikostas: Yeah. 10 dungeons is the same thing we had at the start of Legion. We’re happy with that number. Same with world quests. A lot of places where I feel like we haven’t been talking about things, it’s because they’re just carried forward from Legion.

We’re happy with the foundations of a lot of our endgame structures, with world quests, with the mythic keystone system, with the brawls we have in PvP, with whatever else. We’re not looking to reinvent the wheel where things are fundamentally working. It’s more a matter of, we’re going to build new content in those systems, learn some lessons, refine it, but continue with what’s worked.

Newman: How do you feel about the trade skill system going into Battle for Azeroth?

Hazzikostas: Pretty good. We’re still working on what exactly the tweaks are going to be there. It will be a little bit less fully story-driven. We’re happy with how content tied into professions played out, but you’re probably not going to see a dozen-quest chain to earn a couple of leatherworking recipes, let’s say.

Newman: Clearly we’re seeing the result of a lot of iteration, both in story and in mechanics, for Battle for Azeroth. Legion was a hugely successful expansion, so that’s not too surprising. But in terms of the biggest single thing or experience or feeling that you’re expecting from the new expansion, is there one thing you would hold up and say, this is the new thing, players? If you’re waiting for something super cool, this is the super cool thing you should keep an eye out for.

Afrasiabi: I always kind of put to the side the content side of things, because that’s what I do. I love it anyway. I always geek out over all of our new storylines and arcs and the character stories. I’m freaking out over some of the stuff that you all haven’t seen yet, that’s coming down the pipeline. But I’m going to say all of that. I’m always geeked up about things like allied races. The potential there is huge. Everything, plus allied races, is my answer.

Jaina Proudmoore returns in Battle for Azeroth.

Blizzard Entertainment

Hazzikostas: I guess a couple of things. On the story side, I think it actually is that faction focus, front and center. I think in many ways, what classes were to Legion, factions will be to Battle for Azeroth. Instead of the class campaign you’ll have a war campaign. You’ll be having this feeling of working on behalf of your faction to further your efforts in this battle that consumes the whole world. That’s exciting.

Purely feature-wise, I’m gonna say islands. Island expeditions are a culmination of a lot of years of lessons building different types of content, with a focus on capturing the vibe of exploration, with the feeling of discovery, unlike when you’re running a dungeon. As much as mythic keystones changed that up, when you’re going down the hallway you know what’s around the corner once you’ve done it a couple of times.

You arrive at an island, you’re not going to know what you’re going to find until you explore, until you get there, and the fact that you’re being thwarted by the opposing forces as you’re doing it is going to make for an experience that we think is going to be quite different from what anyone in World of Warcraft has seen before. You’ll have to play it to really understand it, but it’s going to be awesome. We can’t wait to get it in players’ hands.

Newman: How deep does that rabbit hole go? One could conceive of, okay, well, there’s these resources that are typically in these areas on the islands. There are settlements in these areas that might be friendly, that might be hostile. Is it that deep, or is it, hey, there were buildings here last time, and now there are buildings on a completely different part of the island. Things are looking more like a purely roguelike experience built from scratch?

Hazzikostas: I would think of it as very heavily modular rather than truly procedural. It’s more like a lot of hand-crafted content being mixed and matched in a wide variety of ways.

Whether it’s things that can aid you, foes, where buildings are, what’s in those buildings, buffs you can get, rewards, lots of different combinations, as well as of course the inherent variability of the opposing forces that are trying to race you to the objectives, and also have different personalities. One time, when you arrive, it might be a group of trolls. Another time it’s a goblin with crazed inventions by his side. But with different feels to them.

Newman: You had mentioned the AI on the enemies you would be working against on islands being on a different level. Can you give me an example?

Hazzikostas: The basic core of being able to behave both strategically and tactically—mobs in World of Warcraft, historically, they walk up to you and they want to punch you. Or if it’s a raid boss it has some very specific scripting, where every 30 seconds it does something.

[This is] a group of three NPCs that want to go take over this mine and clear it out and get the azurite inside. But if they detect that you’re nearby, they see you, one of them might break off to mess with you, because that’s what it wants to do strategically to maximize its chances of success. That’s very different from walking up to you and punching you in the face.