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(Tape 15_BC_DV)It’s Tape 15 for camera. We’re still in the middle of Tape 7, I think it is, for
DAT. It’s Trish FitzSimons recording, Erica Addis on camera, 5 June
and we’re interviewing Rhonda Alexander in June Jackson’s lounge
room.
Okay, so Rhonda, what do you see as the most important environmental
issues facing the Channel Country and what kind of local activities are you
involved in to address those needs?

File contents

At the moment I think it would be chemicals and woody weeds. Probably
woody weeds to start with because there are a lot of woody weeds coming
down the channels and because cattle … there’s far more movement of cattle
and sheep, and also of road trains, shifting stock around, that they can
actually get the seed and bring it into this area very easily, and without us
knowing. And then, apart from clogging up the rivers and that, and the
country, when you want to export cattle or sheep out of the country you can’t
get them out because of the … bur has a bur on it about this
size and you’ve got to get a stock inspector in to go right through it. So with
the Channel Country at the moment, I would say woody weeds is probably
one of the biggest problems. Chemicals is another one because a lot of them
want to spray these sort of things and if you’ve got cattle or sheep that are
organically grown, you cannot have chemicals of any sort around them for
the export trade. And then the other thing, possibly, is the management of
your stock, that you don’t have too many stock on that you eat out the
property, or eat out the country. Introduction of exotic grasses, things like
that which will actually take over from the native grasses is another thing
that’s going to be a problem. And if you get into the Cooper which will
come up no doubt, with Sandy Kidd, is the harnessing of water and at the
moment we’re now looking at a draft paper for water management in the
Georgina and Diamantina catchment and we haven’t finished that yet. We’re
just looking at it at the moment, because we don’t have a problem with the
water, whereas in the Cooper they actually have licences for the water and
they want to grow cotton in the area, and cotton brings with it chemicals and
other insects, stuff like that.
So tell me the range of organisations, you listed them off before, that you’ve
been involved with.
Well, there’s the ICPA which is Isolated Children’s Parents Association,
which is probably one of the most important ones of all because that’s the
education of our children and I’ve been with … well I started our branch up
25 years ago and I’m President at the moment, and that’s for geographically
isolated children. It’s getting them an education that is equivalent to children
in the city. No better, just equivalent to what they’ve got. I’m Secretary of
our Landcare group which covers 142,000 square kilometres. I’m Vice-
President of our Georgina-Diamantina Catchment which comes into the Lake
Eyre Basin. In other words, we sort of have to look after the Lake Eyre itself
and that basin is one-sixth of Australia. There was a time when they were
going to try and lock it up as National Heritage and we fought like anything
not to, so what we do now is we’re monitoring the rivers, we’re looking after
the woody weeds, doing everything like that so that we can go back to the
government and say ‘Look, we are doing this. We are looking after our land
and we’re going to go on doing it’. So we’re really fighting for that at the
moment. I’m Secretary of the Historical Society, Secretary of the Camp
Draft. What else is there?
No, no, I’m not in the Golf Club. And President of the PCAP for this
western area, Priority Country Area Program.
Somebody has put to me the idea that often in rural areas it’s the women that
particularly take the running on environmental questions, and certainly on
the small farm I grew up on, it was my mother that was much stronger on
that stuff than my father. Do you think that’s a general thing here or are you
working as much with men as with women on these environmental
questions?
I would say that I’m working with more men but the women would be as
strong, if not stronger, and the coordinator for the whole Lake Eyre Basin is a
woman.
Who’s that and where’s she based?
She’s Kate Andrews from Longreach. But on a whole, no, I think on a whole
women are probably the stronger ones but it could be because they may have
a little more time. Like my husband couldn’t come in today for the meeting
because he’s working. So the women are taking up where the men can’t
actually go, even though they want to. So it becomes a partner thing.
Now it’s interesting. You’re the manager of land. Well, your husband’s the
manager and clearly you’re incredibly involved in the management. I guess
two questions I’d have about that. One is, put very bluntly, what drives you
to look after somebody else’s land? You know, like I guess the land belongs
to the shareholders of NAPCO.
It’s got nothing to do with NAPCO. I just like the land. Full stop. It just has
something about it. You know, you can go outside, even just to empty the
pot of tea outside on the trees. At Marion, where I empty the tea out you
look over the river and up to the hills, and it’s beautiful. You just stand there
and look at it. And that’s just … I see that every day, five times a day, just
when I do the meals. No, it’s just the land. It has nothing to do with
NAPCO. But then I do go back to NAPCO and say ‘Right, we’ve got to do
this, this and this’ and it mostly works.
And is the fact that you’re not on a wage individually for that, because that’s
obviously vital work, actually, for the shareholders of NAPCO, is looking
after this resource – and I’m not suggesting that’s why you’re doing it. I hear
what you’re saying. But is the fact of not being on a wage for doing that
work, does that rankle?
No. No. What does rankle is that I’m not treated as a partner with my
husband. I’d rather be paid … I would rather my husband and I were paid as
a team. We’re not. My husband is paid as the manager and he’s expected to
do everything with the books, the managing and that. The wife looks after
the mundane things such as the house and the garden and things like that.
So, yes. No I’d rather see it as a teamwork thing.
It’s not the first time I’ve heard this opinion put. Is there any kind of
movement to try and edge the companies in this direction or do you feel …
like, together with other wives from the company, for instance, is there any
push that it should be like a management team?
Yes. NAPCO wives are all shoving – hard. I don’t think we’re getting too
far at the moment but because I know there are other companies that have
already moved that way and it does seem to be a happier environment.
So which are the companies that have started to do that?
AA Company is the one that I know of in particular. And Kidmans are sort
of looking at it. But, yeah, there are other big properties. I think
[Hightsbury??] did look at it too but I’m not really sure because I haven’t had
much to do with them lately. But I know AA, the manager and his wife are
employed as a team and, yes, NAPCO wives are shoving very hard but we’re
not getting too far, I don’t think.
Would it ever be the case that a man be employed as a manager if he was not
married, with his wife?
Yes.
Single men are employed?
B
Yes. And sometimes it works. I don’t think it’s always to the good of the
homestead area but then that’s a priority, I think, NAPCO and some
companies have got to look at, is what do they want. Do they want the
profits which come off the land and a single manager can certainly do that,
no problems at all, because he does have his head stockman, he has his men
and everything like that. But, bring it to the other side, which is the
homestead area. Does that go down the hill so that you’ve got rundown
areas, homestead areas, whatever you want, which, yeah, I don’t think it’s to
the best of the company, or even to the rural area, full stop.
Is there anything – I know you need to get away – is there anything I haven’t
asked you about that you feel passionate about for a general audience to
understand about what drives women of the Channel Country? Or you? You
know, that’s probably too big a question. You. Is there anything I haven’t
asked you about that seems really central to your life and what drives you?
The country. The life. Community. Your children. Ummm, and I guess I
just can’t sit down and see things happen. I’ve got to get in there and sort it
out. But I’m not what you’d call a person who rushes there and says ‘We’ve
got to do this’. I like to listen to everyone else’s opinion and sort it all out
like that.
You’re a good committee worker?
Probably. I seem to be there a bit. And, no, I think it’s just the life, full stop.
I just love the life because I like stock work even. I used to do a lot of stock
work but then once I had my third child I sort of felt ‘Oh, okay, I’d better
come home and teach him’, whereas with the older two, I used to take them
and teach them in the vehicle or sit them in the laundry and teach them there,
or take them with me down the creek, wherever I was going. So they were a
part of me, more so than my younger one, in that they had a wider vision of
what was going on, whereas the younger one … I don’t know whether it was
old age or laziness or what, but anyway he sort of had more formal education
at home and I don’t think it’s done any better for him. In other words, I’m
not in agreeance with putting kids in a classroom completely. I think they
need to get out and be practical and look after themselves. So that’s my way
of saying … teaching kids is get them into the practical side of the world and
then they can actually see the environment as well. And they can hear Mum
and Dad talking about ‘Oh, the country’s getting a bit dry, isn’t it? We’d
better get those cattle out of this paddock’, things like that. Whereas, if
they’re in the classroom, they’re not actually seeing it and I think that’s
where they’re losing out, and I would say that’s what I did with my younger
child. He’s lost out on the practical side. He’s had the formal education.
Last question. Floods, droughts, dust storms. Tell me the biggest stories,
like the biggest issues you’ve had to deal with of crises and events from this
climate and environment.
There isn’t any, I guess. I suppose … a little boy died in my arms eight years
ago and there was just my son and myself there. My husband was away.
There was no men on the station. From a motorbike accident. The Flying
Doctor wouldn’t come down because he was dead, or had died while they
were en route, and they said no it wasn’t their job any more. That would
probably be the biggest thing that changed my life around, in that just to get
in there and get something done. And the other time, I guess, was … I’ve
never, ever worried about my children in the fact that if they got sick or
anything like that, because I always thought ‘Oh, well, I can cope with it’.
And they didn’t get sick much. So isolation wasn’t a big issue there, with
my children when they were babies. I think that was probably the biggest
one, in the fact that I was by myself, but I’ve kicked myself into gear and
I’ve got going again, and I keep thinking to myself ‘Well, what would he
have liked me to do? What can I do for him because he’s not here any
more?’ So I get on with that, and the other thing is my husband crashed his
plane two years ago. So that threw me into a bit of a flat spin, and he got out
and he said … I was fixing him up on the floor and he said ‘Well, do this.
Have you packed my bag yet?’ and I thought ‘Oh, yeah, righto. You’re
okay. You’re going to live’ and that was it. So, yes. And looking after the
men. You can strangle them one day and kick them up the bum the next day
and then if they get sick, well you look after them.
Oh, and we lost Bobby Moses. How long ago was that? He was a white
man that was incredible. He was an alcoholic, the worst alcoholic you could
ever imagine. He absolutely adored my kids and would do anything for us.
He got on the grog and he went to a man and said ‘There’s a million dollars
in there. Would you look after that?’ He had nothing in his hand and that
person that he went to couldn’t see that he needed help, and he perished, and
we’ve never found him. And, yes, that’s probably the saddest.
He was murdered?
No, he wasn’t murdered. He perished. Because he wandered off in the DTs.
But he did go to someone and say something that was extraordinary and the
person that he said it to didn’t realise that he was in the DTs and that he
needed help, and that person didn’t advise anyone, with the result that Bobby
Moses just went off into the country and just perished, and we’ve never
found him to this day. So that’s probably the saddest thing.
And so this was one of the workers on Marion?
Yes.
So as the manager’s wife, you probably, although you couldn’t have done
anything, took it to heart in some way?
Mmmm. It was sad because we haven’t found him yet. We haven’t actually
put him to rest, you know. Those are the sort of things. Those are the sad
things. With Matt, Matt’s the little boy that died. He’s the sort of a person,
that it’s something that’s got me going.
This is not … you were with Liz and … this is not Liz’s Matt?
Yes.
Matt died in your arms?
Yes. And my younger son, David, he was the one that brought him home
and he was an absolute incredible child, my son. He sat with Matt the whole
time. But that to me is a challenge to do something for Matt. And then
there’s … and my husband was just ‘I’ll strangle you now’, because he sort
of crashed the plane and then he started telling me what to do. So, no, I
suppose those are the three things, apart from my little grandkid and kids
getting married and giving you grey hairs. All those things but I think
they’re all pretty normal.
Well you’d better get back and cook for them there men. That was fantastic.
Thank you very much.
By the clock, oh yeah.
Okay. So just tell me your schedule from now till you go to sleep, Rhonda.
What are you going to do?
I’m going to drive home, which is about three-quarters of an hour and,
hopefully, the stew’s okay. Thicken the stew. Put the vegetables on for,
what, nine of us, and make a pudding for them. And then after tea, wash up.
What sort of pud?
Don’t know yet. I’ve got to get home and do it. And probably get something
ready for breakfast and then I’ll probably go to bed about 10 o’clock because
I’ll do a few things in the house and that’s about it for tonight. And then
tomorrow morning it’ll probably be … I’m not sure whether it’ll be 6 o’clock
breakfast or half past six breakfast, and lunches enough for the boys.
So your husband will tell you what time he needs breakfast to suit the work
program?
Yes. And that’s okay. Like, we can start at half past five some mornings.
Half past six is our general time but he’ll just come in and say ‘We’ll need
breakfast at so and so time and all the boys want lunches today’ or ‘All the
boys will be home for lunch today’, things like that. And then out of the blue
he’ll say ‘And you’d better cut some lunch for me too’.
Okay.
OF TAPE