It only works if she does it in front of me. When DH or I are there, she's very good about following our rules (or asking us first, if it's something she's not sure we'd say yes to). So she'd never suggest missing a nap or getting surprise ice cream without checking with us discreetly first. It's just when she's the one watching Babybartfast and she's using her own judgement that she tends to stretch the limits If we said "Babybartfast must have a 60-minute nap, staying on the bed, with no toys, alone in the room with the lights off," she'd have no problem I will say, at the restaurant the other night, Babybartfast opened each present, then enthusiastically ran to the person who gave it to her and gave them a big hug and told them thank you. That was all MIL's influence - I certainly would have encouraged the same behavior, of course, but apparently MIL had given her a little talk earlier in the day about appropriate birthday behavior and it stuck. So she's not all bad, just manipulative and lacking in common sense

I get what you mean by this - my grandmother is often toxic to both her children and often her grandchildren. She drives us crazy sometimes. But she is also the person who painstakingly spent time teaching me to read in two different languages and kept a special tin of candies just for me for when we had tea time. Very few people in the world have no redeeming features.

(and I do realize it's trivial if you just look at this specific incident)

It isn't trivial if it is part of a larger pattern.

My MIL did things like this. Here is the thing: it is the equivalent of spitting in the faces of your parents. DO. NOT. LET. HER. GET. AWAY. WITH. THIS! Take it away from Your daughter, give it back to your MIL and tell your daughter why you did this. You will not let your daughter be bullied, why would you allow your MIL to be a bully to your parents?

Okay, maybe I'm still holding a grudge over Barbie clothes made for my younger sister when I had spent months making a complete wardrobe for a special Christmas present. I sent them, but it ruined my desire to ever make anymore.

Sorry for being late to the party but this reminds me so much of my MIL I couldn't resist. Like has been mentioned before, people of this nature are often very loving people. They really are nurturers and caretakers and put a lot of stock on their ability to see themselves as good people on how much they are helping others. But like my MIL, sometimes that ability to be seen as a nice person deteriorates into controlling behavior because you can't be a good person helping others if no one is asking for help. So you start pushing to help even if it's not asked for, you go around other people's homes looking for things to improve so you can "help", you take that person not being there as a way to improve things around the house such as cleaning or tidying up and yes that also involves "helping" the children sometimes by directly counteracting what the parents want for that child.

Of course with help also comes the ability to control others because the more people rely on you for help the more power you have in their lives. Eventually you start to be unable to perform basic tasks without them (my FIL can't fill up his own gas tank or use an ATM so my MIL has to do it as her way of "helping"), you involve them in every decision you make about everything from which dentist to use to what carpeting to put in your living room as they can offer advice which becomes intrusive eventually because although it's great to involve someone once or twice in a decision as they can offer meaningful advice, you don't want to involve them every time but that's what it becomes.

The only thing that works with my MIL (and yes I am the one that posted on the forum a few weeks ago about my ILs not coming to my daughter's party as they weren't invited to come on the actual birthday as it was immediate family only) is to involve her in our lives as little as possible. I stopped telling her about things that needed fixing or being done as she would jump in and do them without asking. We bring our daughter to see her often but not necessarily every week and I prefer to do it at their house so that we can leave when we want and they can't go through our house looking for help. I have started to refuse help even in cases where she didn't ask if we want it (i.e. "I'm going to wash your sheets while you're away. I tell her in these cases that I'm fine instead of thanking her because I didn't know how to tell her that I didn't need that done). The ONLY thing that works is to create boundaries and involve her as little as possible. The more info she has, the more she inserts herself into our lives. The more she is in our home, the more she can suddenly start to help when it's not necessary. I still have a long way to go. It probably sounds cruel to involve her a little less in my daughter's life than she was before but I remind myself that this is the woman who reads through her children's personal emails without their knowledge and who cleaned my home and rearranged my garage without my permission. Perhaps it's better to not have such a manipulative, controlling and boundary disrespecting person in her life. Sometimes just because someone holds the title of grandparent doesn't mean they are always the best influence or are able to be the best teacher about how to live life.

Like has been mentioned before, people of this nature are often very loving people. They really are nurturers and caretakers and put a lot of stock on their ability to see themselves as good people on how much they are helping others. But like my MIL, sometimes that ability to be seen as a nice person deteriorates into controlling behavior because you can't be a good person helping others if no one is asking for help. So you start pushing to help even if it's not asked for, you go around other people's homes looking for things to improve so you can "help", you take that person not being there as a way to improve things around the house such as cleaning or tidying up and yes that also involves "helping" the children sometimes by directly counteracting what the parents want for that child.

Of course with help also comes the ability to control others because the more people rely on you for help the more power you have in their lives.

This describes my mother to a "T". She says she is welcome to visit with [all these peope] because she is needed and so helpful. Yeah, she'll help herself take over your life until she decides everything that enters your body, including what medications you should not take, what natural supplements you must take, and which foods you should not eat and which you must eat.

Perhaps it's better to not have such a manipulative, controlling and boundary disrespecting person in her life. Sometimes just because someone holds the title of grandparent doesn't mean they are always the best influence or are able to be the best teacher about how to live life.

This is the decision we have been forced to take because my mother's fury at not being able to control me from 2,500 miles away had me shaking and I almost had a stroke. She thinks she knows best what is needed for my health when what I need to be healthy is her not interfering with my life/body/health. Of course, she does these acts out of love and sees my rejection of her advice as rejecting her. Sigh. She says she cannot stand by and watch the people she loves self destruct by eating wrong/drinking alcohol/smoking anything, so she is forced to take control ... for their own good!

Logged

"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit. The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are."

(and I do realize it's trivial if you just look at this specific incident)

It isn't trivial if it is part of a larger pattern.

My MIL did things like this. Here is the thing: it is the equivalent of spitting in the faces of your parents. DO. NOT. LET. HER. GET. AWAY. WITH. THIS! Take it away from Your daughter, give it back to your MIL and tell your daughter why you did this. You will not let your daughter be bullied, why would you allow your MIL to be a bully to your parents?

Okay, maybe I'm still holding a grudge over Barbie clothes made for my younger sister when I had spent months making a complete wardrobe for a special Christmas present. I sent them, but it ruined my desire to ever make anymore.

Okay, after I posted this, I called my mother read what I had written about my MIL and in tears told her how when I told her about this, she told me that "your MIL is just trying to be nice." I told my mother last night about how hurt I had been and that I felt "gaslighted." It has been a very long time, but my mother apologized and told me that she should have trusted my instincts!

I am sorry for hi jacking this thread; however, that post and the phone call to my mother may have saved me years of therapy!

Sorry for being late to the party but this reminds me so much of my MIL I couldn't resist. Like has been mentioned before, people of this nature are often very loving people. They really are nurturers and caretakers and put a lot of stock on their ability to see themselves as good people on how much they are helping others. But like my MIL, sometimes that ability to be seen as a nice person deteriorates into controlling behavior because you can't be a good person helping others if no one is asking for help. So you start pushing to help even if it's not asked for, you go around other people's homes looking for things to improve so you can "help", you take that person not being there as a way to improve things around the house such as cleaning or tidying up and yes that also involves "helping" the children sometimes by directly counteracting what the parents want for that child.

Of course with help also comes the ability to control others because the more people rely on you for help the more power you have in their lives. Eventually you start to be unable to perform basic tasks without them (my FIL can't fill up his own gas tank or use an ATM so my MIL has to do it as her way of "helping"), you involve them in every decision you make about everything from which dentist to use to what carpeting to put in your living room as they can offer advice which becomes intrusive eventually because although it's great to involve someone once or twice in a decision as they can offer meaningful advice, you don't want to involve them every time but that's what it becomes.

The only thing that works with my MIL (and yes I am the one that posted on the forum a few weeks ago about my ILs not coming to my daughter's party as they weren't invited to come on the actual birthday as it was immediate family only) is to involve her in our lives as little as possible. I stopped telling her about things that needed fixing or being done as she would jump in and do them without asking. We bring our daughter to see her often but not necessarily every week and I prefer to do it at their house so that we can leave when we want and they can't go through our house looking for help. I have started to refuse help even in cases where she didn't ask if we want it (i.e. "I'm going to wash your sheets while you're away. I tell her in these cases that I'm fine instead of thanking her because I didn't know how to tell her that I didn't need that done). The ONLY thing that works is to create boundaries and involve her as little as possible. The more info she has, the more she inserts herself into our lives. The more she is in our home, the more she can suddenly start to help when it's not necessary. I still have a long way to go. It probably sounds cruel to involve her a little less in my daughter's life than she was before but I remind myself that this is the woman who reads through her children's personal emails without their knowledge and who cleaned my home and rearranged my garage without my permission. Perhaps it's better to not have such a manipulative, controlling and boundary disrespecting person in her life. Sometimes just because someone holds the title of grandparent doesn't mean they are always the best influence or are able to be the best teacher about how to live life.

We had Babybartfast's party and it went really well. MIL came (which was nice, since it let me do more hostessing than I would have been able to do if I had been having to chase down Bittybartfast the whole time) and Niece/Nephew/SIL2/FIL/anyone else MIL happened to bump into in the last month didn't, which was also nice. The kids all had a blast, I gave them all way more sugar than they normally got at home, and they all came out of it excited to be "princesses."

MIL was pretty well behaved - other than calling an hour before the party and only-half-jokingly asking if it was too late to rent the neighborhood clubhouse instead she really did do some helpful stuff and I didn't see her do anything I would have disapproved of. She brought outfits for the girls to wear but didn't fuss when I pointedly presented the outfit to Babybartfast as "You can pick what you want to wear for your party; Grandma brought this and this or you can choose this other thing from your drawers." (Babybartfast was more than happy to wear what MIL brought - their tastes both run to sparkly and froofy. Doesn't work for me, but seems to look great on 5-year-olds and 70-year-olds alike!) She did grumble once or twice about being sick of Bittybartfast, but since DH immediately swooped in to scoop up Bittybartfast the first time and I did the second time, she stopped commenting I'm hoping if we keep doing that long enough (we've been trying for months), she'll stop complaining . . .

We had Babybartfast's party and it went really well. MIL came (which was nice, since it let me do more hostessing than I would have been able to do if I had been having to chase down Bittybartfast the whole time) and Niece/Nephew/SIL2/FIL/anyone else MIL happened to bump into in the last month didn't, which was also nice. The kids all had a blast, I gave them all way more sugar than they normally got at home, and they all came out of it excited to be "princesses."

MIL was pretty well behaved - other than calling an hour before the party and only-half-jokingly asking if it was too late to rent the neighborhood clubhouse instead she really did do some helpful stuff and I didn't see her do anything I would have disapproved of. She brought outfits for the girls to wear but didn't fuss when I pointedly presented the outfit to Babybartfast as "You can pick what you want to wear for your party; Grandma brought this and this or you can choose this other thing from your drawers." (Babybartfast was more than happy to wear what MIL brought - their tastes both run to sparkly and froofy. Doesn't work for me, but seems to look great on 5-year-olds and 70-year-olds alike!) She did grumble once or twice about being sick of Bittybartfast, but since DH immediately swooped in to scoop up Bittybartfast the first time and I did the second time, she stopped commenting I'm hoping if we keep doing that long enough (we've been trying for months), she'll stop complaining . . .

what? she was sick of your other child??? *deep breathing to squash evilnay down*

evilnay would have handed her her bag/coat/etc and told her to get the £$^!"£^£$^"% out of my house!

polite nay, would have hissed at dh to tell her to get the £$^!"£^£$^"% out of my house!

I really hope when you say "she did grumble once or twice about being sick of Bittybabyfast" that the she you mean was the birthday girl and not Grandma. Because while a an older sibling complaining about their younger sibling is completed understandable, Grandma complaining is not.

Don't let your guard down Slartibartfast. Just because she behaved (kinda of) once, doesn't mean she won't revert to her old behavior when it suits her.

I really hope when you say "she did grumble once or twice about being sick of Bittybabyfast" that the she you mean was the birthday girl and not Grandma. Because while a an older sibling complaining about their younger sibling is completed understandable, Grandma complaining is not.

Oh, this is pretty constant for her - she makes little half-PA comments (usually after voluntarily spending time with the girls) about how they're running her ragged or how she's ready for a nap. She doesn't mean any of them, I think, but I really do try not to presume on her on the rare occasions I really did ask her to provide babysitting. So for the last six months or so, every time she says something about how she's overwhelmed, DH or I step in and take over and don't let her change her mind. She's doing it less often, now, so I think she's starting to learn that we're sick of having to guess whether her comments are just a ploy for sympathy, a real gripe, or just her being bored and wanting to say something.

I really hope when you say "she did grumble once or twice about being sick of Bittybabyfast" that the she you mean was the birthday girl and not Grandma. Because while a an older sibling complaining about their younger sibling is completed understandable, Grandma complaining is not.

Oh, this is pretty constant for her - she makes little half-PA comments (usually after voluntarily spending time with the girls) about how they're running her ragged or how she's ready for a nap. She doesn't mean any of them, I think, but I really do try not to presume on her on the rare occasions I really did ask her to provide babysitting. So for the last six months or so, every time she says something about how she's overwhelmed, DH or I step in and take over and don't let her change her mind. She's doing it less often, now, so I think she's starting to learn that we're sick of having to guess whether her comments are just a ploy for sympathy, a real gripe, or just her being bored and wanting to say something.

I suspect it's nothing to do with the kids at all, but about, 'Look how much work I put in to help you guys out - I'm exhausted from all the work!'

I think some people have a hard time dealing with little babies because they are not very interactive.But your strategy is a good one...always assume PA people are telling the truth and act accordingly.