This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the FAQ and RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate and remove the ads - it's free!

Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

Originally Posted by Boo Radley

Yes, I have. But the point is we called it torture. And we did it so not only against the defeated, but our own.

We called the bombing of Shangai a war crime, too. We also called unrestricted submarine warfare a war crime. We summarily executed German camp gaurds, without due process, as well. It's only torture when the bad guys do it. When we do it, we're collecting valuable information to protect American lives. You Liberals need to figure out which team you're really on. Ya'll seem to have alot of trouble with that.

The sad part about it, is that you Leftists think that anything short of a 4 star hotel as a prison, is considered torture.

Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

Originally Posted by apdst

We called the bombing of Shangai a war crime, too. We also called unrestricted submarine warfare a war crime. We summarily executed German camp gaurds, without due process, as well. It's only torture when the bad guys do it. When we do it, we're collecting valuable information to protect American lives. You Liberals need to figure out which team you're really on. Ya'll seem to have alot of trouble with that.

The sad part about it, is that you Leftists think that anything short of a 4 star hotel as a prison, is considered torture.

Again, the poit is you can't say it isn't torture when we have historically called it torture, even to the point of charging our own.

And you should really not battle leftists. You should address the argument before you. Doing things wrong in the past does not justify doing things wrong in the present. Wrong is wrong. We did a lot wrong in WWII. And torture is torture no matter who does it, which is in part why we charged our own.

AUSTAN GOOLSBEE:I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

Originally Posted by Boo Radley

Again, the poit is you can't say it isn't torture when we have historically called it torture, even to the point of charging our own.

And you should really not battle leftists. You should address the argument before you. Doing things wrong in the past does not justify doing things wrong in the present. Wrong is wrong. We did a lot wrong in WWII. And torture is torture no matter who does it, which is in part why we charged our own.

Doing things wrong, that cause defeat are wrong. Things that bring success, during a war, are the right things to do. There are no points for good sportsmanship.

Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

Originally Posted by apdst

Doing things wrong, that cause defeat are wrong. Things that bring success, during a war, are the right things to do. There are no points for good sportsmanship.

Another leap. Our enemy here can't defeat us period. But there is no evidence that breaking the law or doing what is moral would in any way defeat us. Frankly, conventional interrogation is largely more effective than torture. We have evidence here as we got the good intel long after we stopped using waterboarding. Nearly all the research on torturing concludes it is ineffective for information gathering, but excellent for getting confessions as even the innocent will confess.

AUSTAN GOOLSBEE:I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

In the media, waterboarding is called "simulated drowning," but that's a misnomer. It does not simulate drowning, as the lungs are actually filling with water. There is no way to simulate that. The victim is drowning.

1. Waterboarding is a torture technique. Period. There is no way to gloss over it or sugarcoat it. It has no justification outside of its limited role as a training demonstrator. Our service members have to learn that the will to survive requires them accept and understand that they may be subjected to torture, but that America is better than its enemies and it is one’s duty to trust in your nation and God, endure the hardships and return home with honor.

2. Waterboarding is not a simulation. Unless you have been strapped down to the board, have endured the agonizing feeling of the water overpowering your gag reflex, and then feel your throat open and allow pint after pint of water to involuntarily fill your lungs, you will not know the meaning of the word.

Like above, you are factually incorrect. We have prosecuted both foeign soliders and our own for using it, calling it torture. We ahve prosecuted law enforcement offices for using it. We have called it torture and held people accountable for doing it.

You can inhale water and drown or have a heart attack in the shower..that doesn't make a shower torture. You can call it a quinceanera if you like, that doesn't make it one.

Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

Originally Posted by Boo Radley

Another leap. Our enemy here can't defeat us period. But there is no evidence that breaking the law or doing what is moral would in any way defeat us. Frankly, conventional interrogation is largely more effective than torture. We have evidence here as we got the good intel long after we stopped using waterboarding. Nearly all the research on torturing concludes it is ineffective for information gathering, but excellent for getting confessions as even the innocent will confess.

You think your enemies are using "conventional interrogation" methods? What they will do is just put a bomb on a plane, slit your throat and video the act, blow up a bridge or any transportation system while you think you're taking some imaginary high road. They'll have you cowering in terror while you're trying to talk to them of your Constitution.

Here's what really happens to your Constitution when fear is on the line..

Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

Originally Posted by Grant

You think your enemies are using "conventional interrogation" methods? What they will do is just put a bomb on a plane, slit your throat and video the act, blow up a bridge or any transportation system while you think you're taking some imaginary high road. They'll have you cowering in terror while you're trying to talk to them of your Constitution.

Here's what really happens to your Constitution when fear is on the line..

They are defeating you, one step at a time, and you're snoozing through the whole thing.

That too is irrelevent. What they use does nto dictate what we use. we don't really want to be them, do we?

And fear works all kinds of ways. if we let fear make us more like them, we lose. They can't defeat us. we can only defeat ourselves.

AUSTAN GOOLSBEE:I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

Originally Posted by mac

You can inhale water and drown or have a heart attack in the shower..that doesn't make a shower torture. You can call it a quinceanera if you like, that doesn't make it one.

Don't be silly. I have merely shown that you are wrong in your assumptions. it happens to all of us. Those who do it call it torture. Our government has caleld it torture. While some want to pretend that itn isn't, the facts just don't support them. Sorry.

AUSTAN GOOLSBEE:I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

Originally Posted by Grant

You think your enemies are using "conventional interrogation" methods? What they will do is just put a bomb on a plane, slit your throat and video the act, blow up a bridge or any transportation system while you think you're taking some imaginary high road. They'll have you cowering in terror while you're trying to talk to them of your Constitution.

Here's what really happens to your Constitution when fear is on the line..

They are defeating you, one step at a time, and you're snoozing through the whole thing.

So true. Before long we'll be giving up our American ideals and acting like them--attacking civilians, disregarding the laws of our land and cultural heritage, and things like that. There will even be some among us who try to cajole us into behaving as they do, claiming that it is a more 'manly' way, that it is a more safe way.