Is God Real?

Its human nature to seek superiority and its human nature to seek an authoritative entity to take responsibility and control of one's life. So i often wonder if God is just that idea. The idea of a god that is all powerful and all knowing and just superior in everyday than any human being, is the very idea that makes me question the legitimacy of a God. We tend to subscribe to a divine command or an authoritative figure. The creator of the universe gets to set the rules and do anything it likes with its creations like sending them for eternal punishment.

And lastly, everyone that believes in a divine command gets the same satisfaction from believing in something that everyone else gets no matter what they believe in.

I am just interested in the TED community's input on this. I am a student of life, so i take no biases even if it sounds like it sometimes. :)

Feb 23 2013:
the belief in god, anywhere in the world, at any time in history to the present, in any religion, is completely dependent on one single common factor….the believer was taught to believe, indoctrinated at the very earliest stages of his or her psychological development. If we as children were not indoctrinated in this way, then God would be relegated to the shelves of mythology with Zeus, Jupiter, and the rest. I know and believe this 100%

Feb 25 2013:
Probably 95℅. In the end you need to be exposed to dogma to join a faith. Others might form a more personalised amalgam of different ideas from outside mixed with their own personal insights.

Funny, many say you can know god if you open yourself to it.

But then everyone comes up with different gods depending on their experience.

Mar 5 2013:
Mankind invented the idea of God, an omnipotent, omnipresent being that created us in his image. This alone should tell you what religion is all about, and if God is real or not. Those that can't bear to live with doubts and questions about our existence prefer to turn to simplicity: it's easier to believe a magic creature created everything and that we have a purpose, than to believe we are the product of what appears to be a random chain of event, then try to take that 100,000,000,000 pieces puzzle and put it together.

The idea of God (and gods in general, throughout history) is to answer the questions we don't understand, and to control the populace. What's an earthquake ? What's a lightning storm ? What about northern lights ? Wait, if I don't worship God I'll suffer for eternity ? This king has a divine right to rule under god, I should listen to him! When you have no way of figuring it out, it can be pretty scary. I'd probably be a religious man if I was born in an era of scientific ignorance.

In this day and age, everything that God is has pretty much been disproved and everything now relies on blind faith alone, however the grip of religion weakens with every passing generation.

Feb 21 2013:
If there is no God then surely we are the most irrational of creatures. No other subject has moved individual lives & world history to such an extent. So if there is no God, then why all the fuss ?
Of course God exists; He's my best mate!

Feb 22 2013:
So there is a God, because, ah, we are assumed to be, rational creatures and, these "fuss" should have a reason.
Cool opinion.
In my philosophy, it is called "Reverse Engineering God". You need something, you just make it. Demand and supply.

Is it rationale to think your particular theistic interpretation is the right one when there are so many others.

The more we understand about the human mind/brain, group dynamics, history and anthropology the more we see how we can be mistaken. Cognitive bias. The assumption of agency. Cultural programming.

About half of human children have imaginary friends. It's not surprising adults can also build a belief system and interpret psychological experiences as evidence for their version of gods or spirits.

I guess a Muslim or believers in other gods has similar experiences to you and assumes they have some sort of contact or relationship with god.

Do you see your best mate god regularly. Are there two way conversations like we have with human mates? Or is it a bit more one sided and obscure. Did you get him on film or record his voice, or is it possible this is just going on in your head?

Feb 25 2013:
Hi Obey,
What you are looking for is a god in a box. Neatly labeled & packaged. If I was to ask you to prove to me that your wife loved you, you couldn't do it. You would present a list of circumstantial evidence, which convinces you, but I could easily dismiss. God is not a one night stand. He takes time & effort to build a relationship with. That relationship is unique & sacred. In your present state of mind, you just won't get it.
Good to hear from you again.

Concepts are not physical but they do exist within our minds. Just like your god concept exists in your mind. The missing ingredient is any proof that it exists independently of your mind. I'm not claiming love is a person that exists independent of our thoughts.

We might argue whether the evidence that my wife loves me is sufficient, but I guess there would be sufficient evidence my wife exists independent of my mind. Not so your god.

My point is really there is evidence my best friends exist independently of my mind, but not your personal god buddy. And the process you used to get to your god belief is the same process and similar type of subjective experiences others use for completely different gods.

If you spend years reinforcing a god pattern in your mind and interpreting life through a religious lens, reinforced by subjective experiences, its not a surprise that construct becomes unique and profound.

we know humans have the cognitive machinery to create imaginary friends, so it is highly plausible your god concept, just like all the other different ones other people hold is just a personal mental construct. I can not tell if your god concept, or a child’s imaginary friend exists independent of your mind. But neither can you I guess.

Any way you are free to belief in your god. Doesn't seem to harm others significantly and seems to bring joy to your life and relationships. Fair enough.

I just suggest there is not much evidence your best buddy god exists independently of your mind, and as a cultural construct more generally.

Feb 26 2013:
Hi Obey
We've been through this before elsewhere.
To me the whole universe cries out of design & intelligent manufacture. I am totally unconvinced by just-so stories of chance over millions of years. The bible is way too complex to have been written by man. Among other things it relates human history over the whole lifespan of the universe.
That keeps me happy, plus I get to experience God in my daily life
We both have faith, just depends where you put it.

Feb 26 2013:
The bible or quran, ink on paper, looks exactly like what you would expect men to produce.

Now if god made a giant floating crystal of some indestructible material that magically answered all questions or carved the words on the moon, now that would give me pause.

Even with all the codes etc its fairly mundane.

I suggest we both have beliefs. I might just have less speculative ones in the supernatural department.

To me life cries out the evolutionary tree of life, where animals survive by eating and killing other living things, And the natural universe is complex beyond human comprehension, but it totally does not look designed.

If you roll the dice 10 times you will get a series that has a probability of 1/1024 of occurring, but one of those 1024 possibilities had to occur. What is the chance of your parents and their parents and their parents etc meeting. Pretty low. But it happened and its not magic.

Feb 20 2013:
If your good you get a toy, if your bad you get a chunk of coal; he knows when you've been naughty or nice; If your good you go to heaven, if your bad you go to hell…don't see the difference...

Feb 20 2013:
Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

For we know him who said, "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," and again, "The Lord will judge his people."

When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Allah's Vengeance upon the Enemies of His Messenger will surely come to pass

Allah further says:

(And even if We take you away, We shall indeed take vengeance on them.) means, `We will inevitably wreak vengeance upon them and punish them, even if you pass away.'

(Or (if) We show you that wherewith We threaten them, then verily, We have perfect command over them.) means, `We are able to do both,' but Allah will not take His Messenger (in death) until He gives him the joy of seeing his enemies brought low and gives him power and authority over them and their wealth. This was the view of As-Suddi and was the opinion favored by Ibn Jarir.

Feb 21 2013:
I think its "real" because we choose to believe it is. And we choose to attribute it to be "God", a divine all powerful being that will take care and handle life's obstacles for us as long as we live our lives in his eyes.

Feb 22 2013:
Experiments show if a human be alone for a long time, he/she feels imaginary ants, bees, ghosts, phantoms, etc. around himself/herself. When we need something and we don't have it, we make it. In real world or in our imagination. Imaginary friend. Imaginary lover. Idols.
If you need something, don't assume it exists, dude. If you have other reasons, I respect. But they are millions of atheists who defeat their needs. Don't reverse-engineering your God.

Comment deleted

Mar 9 2013:
Interesting perspective man. Just a quick question, this is a little off topic but i just want know what you think about. Do you think we will lead ourselves to self destruction?.....if we are not on that path already

Mar 9 2013:
The Higgs boson has nothing to do with diety. The author of the book wanted to title the book "The God-___ Particle," because of its being the last missing and elusive piece in a model that was otherwise working well.

The editor or promoter encouraged the change of title to something more catchy. As you say, the media loved it and people have been misled by that label ever since.

Do you exist & are you real? There's your answer. To me God isn't of man but consciousness itself.

I found the creator through science, I was on this science site & I asked the science minded people where did the matter & antimatter come from? The answer I got was it was just there, pretty lame so this sealed it for me.

After 300 years of modern science the best of our super monkey brains haven't got it all figured out, therefore magic is a reasonable hypothesis. While I understand some aspects of the universe and its origins do our heads I just don't get that resorting to a supernatural explanation is intellectually fulfilling. It's like a magic plug for our ignorance not to different from blaming weather, earthquakes and disease on invisible agents or magic before understood things a bit better.

Seems like an argument from ignorance. Possibly special pleading and doesn't actually explain how it happened. Answering a question with a larger unfounded mystery. And is not actually evidence of a god, just evidence of our ignorance and being content to resort to the supernatural to plug gaps in our understanding with magic.

Feb 21 2013:
If you believe there is, just say, "for me, there is."
If you don't believe, just say, "for me, there isn't."

Knowing is the only way to be sure. If one feels or thinks they know, then fine, know, but keep it.......
to yourself. You cannot prove it and since that is the key for either side, let it stay that way and stop talking about it.

Proof of "knowing" can only come one way.
Do you trust it no matter what, and no longer worry about anything?
Because if you worry, you don't trust it and if you don't trust it,
you don't know it. You only believe it. There's a difference.

Feb 25 2013:
If one agrees to accept that God is an idea created by humans, it can be thought of as a source of everything good, kind and compassionate - that's pretty much the essence of love, so why not? Such a personal god does not have to be any less important than the God of religions, may be more because we will not place the burden of the creation or the duty of a conductor of everything but will still seek solace and inspiration from. This god is blissfully real - a friend.
The God of books, however, is an authority who watches over you for your every act and sends you to eternal damnation if you don't obey his commandments. This god is a ruler.

Feb 26 2013:
I would agree that it is most likely that the typical god concepts are man made and do not exist outside our minds as independent beings.

The word god is fairly loaded. If you are using it as the substitute for concepts such as love or goodness, that's your choice, but it seems reasonable to be suspicious that the intent is to attach more to it than this.

If you start assigning agency, or personifying this concept without reasonable evidence than we diverge.

I agree this is just as valid as more conventional monotheistic, polytheist or Deistic god concepts i.e. a human concept with no compelling evidence it exists as an entity in itself.

You are welcome to imagine and personify this concept, call it friend, add meaning to your life, but if you want to demonstrate it exists independent of your mind, as anything more than a human construct, you'll need something more than wishful thinking.

Personally I value the truth and try not to knowingly delude myself. The natural universe is difficult enough to understand, without inventing gods. Anyway, if it does no harm, fair enough. Perhaps there is an argument that this type of subjective thinking holds us back or leads to negative consequences that outweigh any benefits. Perhaps not.

Mar 15 2013:
It is true that many Christians believe so, not because of their own searching, but because of others in their life who pressure them or because it is simply easier. I am a Christian and I have tried my hardest to not be like this. I personally believe that God would rather someone passionately not believing in Him than passively believing in Him. So I think that, in a way, everyone needs to start from scratch. They need to get rid of assumptions and just see the truth.
One thing that is clear for me is that if you seek, you will find. If you honestly, open-mindedly search then I think God will reveal Himself. Not in a physical way but in a Spiritual way

Mar 15 2013:
no, none of the gods of man are real, and why this isn't obvious is a mystery

start by defining terms.

If one asks is this god real, and as part of the question gives various attributes of the god, it seems to me that it is much easier to answer because how one arrives at claims of specific attributes, and hence their validity, can be rationally challenged.

If one can't assign attributes then one has to wonder what the person is asking. It would seem to equate to - Is this being, which I cannot describe in any way, including whether it is even an intelligent being, real? seems meaningless.

Mar 12 2013:
"if God is just that idea" that seems to originate or matter of interest only to those who at least know a language or can communicate using it - so the question seems to have little deeper query too - Is the language real? or another, Is their a language that makes God Real? if so Am I aware of that language that makes God Real or Am I using a language where God originates as an idea ?

Mar 12 2013:
Gods are not real, but the mental sickness associated to believing in Gods is very real. Our history is full of mentally sick religious leaders who like to infect others, And those 'others' are the people who are least capable of defending their mental state,,children.

Feb 26 2013:
I wish to take on the questions asked by Peter.
"Its human nature to seek superiority and its human nature to seek an authoritative entity to take responsibility and control of one's life. So i often wonder if God is just that idea."
It's not human nature to seek superiority, it's human nature to seek camaraderie.
It's not human nature to seek authority, it's human nature to seek authenticity. And it's not for shifting responsibility and control of one's life but it's human nature to love and let go of control with trust so that the self can relax and rest.
God with capital 'G' is the product of the innate human confusion and directionlessness.
The idea of eternal punishment is as anti-human as it can get.
God, by definition, can jolly well mind his business. We need more humanity to mind ours.

Feb 26 2013:
@Obey no1kinobe : Very valid warning. But what gets missed is that such ideas are strictly personal and private. There is no intention to demonstrate it.
It is next to impossible to live meaningfully without believing and imagining. Our idea of self is in large part imagination. Atheism is arguably another belief system having it's own extremists and fundamentalists. For one who finds it difficult to live without an idea of purpose, spiritual enlightenment and equanimity a personal god is a better choice than a religious god.
The argument that this type of subjective thinking holds us back is questionable. The traditional science, at least a substantial part of it, is the contribution of scholars and scientists deeply religious. There is no clear evidence that atheists are better predisposed towards science.
That leaves only Truth. The nature of Truth is, IMO, not absolute and it's philosophical basis has been debated time and again. The god of books makes use of this human confusion. A personal god, I think, is a safety release against that pressure.

Feb 26 2013:
Hi PM, I agree we all have beliefs, world views etc based on our education, experience, reasoning, intuition, and limited senses and mind. However, not all beliefs are equal. Some are closer approximations to the truth than others. And contradicting beliefs can not all be correct.

I get your point about atheism being a belief system. I would suggest atheism may be part of belief system but perhaps is not as broad or dogmatic as deserving to be called a belief system compared to a particular religious belief system. Perhaps even more narrow than an individualistic spiritual belief system.

After all its only not being a theist.. Everything else is open from ghosts, afterlife, reincarnation, karma to views on abortion etc. Some may use this as a linchpin on which to hitch additional views or reflect a similar skeptical outlook, but there is no dogma, no necessarily shared world view.

Personally I consider myself a reasonably open minded skeptic, left leaning on many social issues and somewhere in the middle economically. I would identify myself as an atheist only when it is relevant to a particular topic such as this.

Whether a tendency to subjective, intuitive thinking in general is net negative to human development is an open question for me. I haven't considered it deeply. But it has no role in confirming scientific hypothesis. Perhaps with coming up with ideas and hypothesis but science is empirically validated rather than left to the subjective. Many spiritual or religious folk can still apply the scientific method and accept the outcomes, I agree.

I would point out in the US, one of the most religious developed nations, more than 30% (from memory) deny evolution and believe the world is about 6,000 years old. Dogmatic religious views also have negative social and health impacts e.g .Taleban, caste system. So I would suggest there is a case that these kinds religious views based on subjective experience can hold us back. Not all spiritual views but many.

Feb 26 2013:
I seem to like the way you think :) And there is not much disagreement in essence, I'd say. I also like it that you made clear your stand. Without that being cleared, a lot of debate becomes waste of time.
I make a clear distinction between God with a capital 'G' and god that I am proposing to be personal and private. I am not religious at all and the simple reason is that I can go about in life and make a meaning of it without the necessity of a God, a super natural intervention, a creator or a keeper of morality as religious texts dictate. But I am certainly spiritual and I make a distinction between religion and that.
I believe that over time our societies have acquired reasoned, secular, liberal and democratic value sets such that dispensation of social issues on the basis of religious texts that were written thousands of years ago create conflict and negative impacts on our values.
However, if someone internalizes the apparent conflicts of life in the form of a core source of peace, joy and happiness with no conflict with the outside world or somebody else has same core source as a pleasurable quest with reason, curiosity and awe with no conflict with the outside world, I'd call both a personal god (I have no apathy towards that name). And it's very real to me. Just like love or poetry.
Sure all belief systems are not equal. But honestly, I am not sure if only one of two contradicting beliefs has to be true. For life as a biological process, I sometimes wonder if we are living or dying on a daily basis. What do you think?

Feb 25 2013:
I attend the local church in my town ever Sunday. But when i go, I go to see friends and meet new people. I also go to listen to the Bible scriptures. I do not necessarily believe in the one they call "God," but I do believe that the scriptures have fables in them. There are stories and parables in the Bible that have helped me through alot of tough times. I think of God as a role model that demonstrates one specific way to live a life.

Feb 26 2013:
Fair enough KP. I guess many different religious or spiritual traditions contain some good stuff. I guess humans have not changed much over a few thousand years in regards to some aspects of the human condition. In some ways life is easier in many places, but we all lose friends and loved ones, we grew old, get sick, suffer along with some joy.

I just find there is a lot of stuff to avoid in Abrahamic books as well.

But a discerning person can separate the good from the barbaric.

Yahweh or Jesus as the role model? Yahweh seems a nasty character. Jesus, more of a reformer and apocalyptic preacher. At least according to what was written about him decades after he died.

I lived in a Buddhist country for some years and investigated some of their beliefs. Some of it is very insightful into the human condition. Some less so from a 21st century perspective.

Judaism - seems to be about the covenant with their tribal god
Christianity seems to be about salvation from a fallen nature
Islam - Submission

Feb 25 2013:
If by "God" you mean: an omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent entity, and by "Real" you mean: scientifically proven fact (currently or in the future), then I'm sorry to tell you that you question has no answer, which means both answers (yes and no) are equally valid (or more accurately: equally invalid). If you include omnipresent on your definition of God, then, there is simply no room for scientific proof or disprove. An omnipresent God may or may not exist, but the only truly 100% scientifically verifiable fact is that we will never know, never ever.

I almost forget a very important point, if you don't include "omnipresent" in your definition of God, that necessarily and automatically excludes omniscient, and omnipotent, which leaves you with a God who is not everywhere, does not know all and is not all mighty.

So, Is God Real ?... that depends on you definition of "God", and on your definition of "Real".

Feb 25 2013:
Hi George :)
Thanks for the comment, when i say God, i mean an omnipotent being that as religion puts it, takes care of our needs not our wants. And by real i mean visibly and tangibly real as a separate entity from your conscious. As in its not a creation of the mind and it consciously exists in space and time.

Feb 25 2013:
Realize something: there is no possible way for God to be omnipotent if it is not omnipresent, and if God is omnipresent then it is necessarily and automatically invisible to our senses, and intangible to our minds, because its essence cannot be separated from physical matter, if God is omnipresent, then each atom that forms you is part of God, that means God cannot be separated from you, so...: how could you separate it from you conscious if you cannot separate it from your body???. Like I said, an omnipresent God is necessarily invisible and intangible. There is simply no way you can see, feel, touch, taste or hear an omnipresent God. That is the reason why you cannot proof or disprove its existence. I even dare to say that if you define God as omnipresent then any argument in favor or against its existence is invalid by definition.

To me all knowing is just a human construct, a concept, and very hard for a human mind to really comprehend. Probably impossible in reality.

What that means in regards where the entity is located is pure speculation.

I don't have to be everywhere to see a lot, hear a lot, etc outside my body. You could invent a god concept that knows everything via a super god sense, while it sits on my coffee table.

I suggest you can not prove its existence, because there is no emprical proof and most likely its just an idea humans made up.

If there is an entity somewhat like this then we still have no reliable way of knowing whether it exists or anything about it. It might as well not exist because it is outside our senses, outside our capability to detect.

You can not disprove it because it is constructed in a way that is impossible to disprove.

But is the same way you can not prove much of anything about its nature or intentions because there is no information other than the concepts some humans latch onto.

Did you there is a transcendent invisible immaterial toaster. You can not prove or disprove these sorts of human constructs, but you can assign as much meaning or dogma as you like via subjective so called "spiritual" experience and revelations of your own or recorded through history or philosophised into existence.

Actually you could assume this being has 3 different aspects, is triune in nature or 7, or 113 if you like.

Sometimes the attributes tagged onto god concepts are a bit contradictory. Not sure how you can be all merciful and all just.

And defining something as all good is like defining circles as the perfect shape. Or that the universe is perfect. It's just a definition that leads to circular thinking and contradictions with conflicting all good god concepts. It seems like nonsense.

Feb 25 2013:
Hmm, Great input Obey. I am just curious mind, so if my question's seems to have a bais, please forgive it. It was not intended and in my mind i have no bais only curiosity. As for me, i havent seen much evidence for a God and in fact when i think about a God, i cant help it think of my beliefs as the same beliefs as i had in Santa or the boogie man. Only difference is that we have been primed and conditioned to hold the belief in God as the fabric holding together our identity. And without it people would go into anxiety. So i am just a curious mind that wants to explore the basis of the question

Feb 24 2013:
People have been creating god since our existence, I guess that is because we try to figure out how we were created and how the things around us were created as well, and then, after questioning ourselves many times, we came into a conclusion like that, and we create a god or gods to explain it, but actually we don't have this answer yet. the science still searching for an answer everyday. So, Religions and science, they both still not knowing these answers, so we can't say which one is wrong, science or religions, because we don't know what actually is truth, if there is one truth.

Feb 21 2013:
I've always encountered these sort of questions before and the outcome of such conversations are not always pretty as one might say.We all believe in something.That something could be anything.Whose to say whether that something exists or not. Personally, I believe in the existence of a supreme being.I am a Muslim.

However, my question would be : Why does it matter so much that it becomes a subject of vigorous debates, wars even.Can't we just get along? extremists are everywhere, I won't deny that.Why don't we all just stop discussing unnecessary topics and start to cooperate to build a more peaceful world.

Trust me, my experiences tell me that discussing this topic wouldn't give us a solution that would satisfy all.

That reason is children. Namely indoctrination. I don't care what an adult believes or why s/he believes it as long as that choice is consciously made. Religions have figured out a way to make people think that it's the default state to be a believer if they're born in some place rather than another. I was born and raised as a muslim. I would've probably stayed that way if it wasn't for my travelling and seeing different cultures. I don't mind a person being muslim or anything else as long as they chose it...not because someone said it or they were brought up that way because of societal norms. If religions were treated the same way as everything else - treated is disbelief and required a reason to believe in them, then I bet they'd be far less popular. Religious organizations have huge impact on societies and disregarding them or keeping quiet about them is just making it easier for them to do whatever they want. We've had enough of that (Crusades, wars, indulgence, tax exemption and many more). No more.

Feb 25 2013:
I agree. With my daughter we have been careful not to brainwash her, to discuss the different points of view. My wife believes in a god, so she can hear different sides.

But I can understand if you believe in hell or there are social expectations its a big ask to expect a theist not to indoctrinate the child. Its a bit sad but I don't think you can make it illegal to teach whatever values or religion parents want. But you can keep religion out of government, public schools etc.

Feb 26 2013:
At the end of the day, our cultures, experiences and upbringing are all going to differ from one another.It is a fact that we all must accept to live together harmoniously.The only way I can view this conversation positively is that it might teach us our differences and that we might accept them as it is.I sincerely doubt it would give a final solution to all regarding the question of whether God exists or not .My travelling and seeing other cultures made me choose Islam as my way of life.My view is that we do not have to be similar to be treated equally.You can think or be whatever you like as long as you don't cause anyone trouble.

Feb 26 2013:
It'll be unchanged if everyone accepts it. I refuse to accept indoctrination as some kind of unavoidable path. The best solution imo, is to expose children to other cultures and let them decide. I agree, we won't know for sure whether God exists or not, and that's not the issue. The issue is, that parents, who don't know themselves, for some reason think they know it well enough to have their children identify with the religion of their choice.

Feb 26 2013:
I suggest there are strong arguments for the separation of church and state, along with personal freedom of and from religion, freedom of speech, equal treatment of sexes and sexual orientations, races etc.

I agree broadening experiences is generally positive. Let people come up with their own conclusions, but let human rights and secular government take precedent and not force people to believe or indoctrinate, keep religion out of schools and other state institutions.

Feb 21 2013:
We have too short a life span to see anything in action and what's worse is people are realizing this and don't like it. I watched someone today crash into the car in front of him because his eye's were down lost online. I see people walk up to traffic lights push the button and flick! up comes the phones, about twenty people all standing there with their phones up. I wanted to take a picture but realized i had washed my phone with my jeans and destroyed it last week. There is no God but then there is no reality, just trudge up to the next stop then transport back into the new heaven.

We can't physically get out of our heads and float around and see then jump back in and neither will you find the answer anywhere while stuck in this biological form.

Feb 20 2013:
This whole question rises or falls with the existence of spiritual experiences. By this I mean feeling the presence of God. When you have felt Him it is no longer a question anymore. You know. These kind of experiences need not be rare, fantastic, or weird. I can tell you how to have them yourself. You don't need a background in Christianity or any prior experience with religion. I've taught people who have never really believed before how to do this. It's not science by any means, but it is repeatable and measurable, at least to you. All that's really necessary is a sincere desire to know if He's there or not, and an open mind. The problem lies in these two conditions. The reason why many people have never even heard of this is because most people don't want to know. If they knew, they might have to change their lives, and that's scary. They might have to change their beliefs, and no one wants to do that. (I'm guilty of that too, I know) And yes, once you build a personal relationship with God it changes your life. It's not an easy thing sometimes. It puts you in an interesting position: either it's all true or you're a raving lunatic. I can't deny the many experiences I've had, along with the hundreds of other people I personally know who have had them. There are many others I don't personally know, but I can tell you where you can read their stories. I don't think I'm a lunatic :).
I can't logically prove or disprove to you the existence of a God. I can't scientifically prove or disprove it. I can't philosophically prove or disprove it. That's the point. Nobody can. That's why the debate has raged on for thousands of years. But the people who really want to know, know.

Feb 25 2013:
I wonder if personal experiences are similar for believers in a whole bunch of different gods.
I wonder if they might be just psychological experiences, profound but mundane in the sense that there is no real evidence for supernatural interpretations.

I note sincere people searching for the truth about gods might end up believing in very different concepts or not believe in any.

It's a bit like saying if you try to be a Christian, learn the framework and interpret life within that framework, spend years cognitively reinforcing those beliefs you might end up seeming real. Same for Islam or Zoroastrianism etc or whatever new age beliefs.

I suggest the experiences are real, but the interpretations are an open question, although perhaps we know enough that the natural explanations are probably the lead candidates.

I suggest the gods and natural spirits of others feel just as real as your God. But it is highly unlikely they all exist and impossible for conflicting interpretations to be correct.

I admire your honesty that in the end it comes down to how you interpret your personal psychological experiences.

I wonder what makes you think your interpretation is any better than the 6 billion other supernatural interpretations and others people held in the past?

Feb 25 2013:
You know, you'd think that'd be the case, that many different people would have radically different experiences. However, in my experience I haven't actually met anyone who's had spiritual experiences that differ greatly from mine. Always the same feelings, the same general conclusions. Particulars did vary, of course. I was a missionary in Japan, and over the course of two years I talked to over ten thousand people about religion. (That's about 15 real conversations a day. I met many more than that, but I had actual conversations on this subject with about that many.) Those of them who had had spiritual experiences before in the past knew exactly what I was talking about, and they certainly weren't Christian. However, the sense of the One behind it was the same. Same attributes, same Person, in essence. Japan is nominally Buddhist, but it's more ritual than anything else. Regardless of formalized religion, the experience is more or less the same. I certainly haven't talked to all the people in the world, maybe that's just Japan. But as I've seen it, it's the same God talking to all people who'll listen. And yes, I believe if you do listen He'll guide you to a certain church, His church that Christ set up. Those people who did listen more to our message usually agreed that it correlated with the experiences they'd had, regardless of whether or not they joined our church or not. Other religions aren't wrong, just incomplete. Maybe that's a study you can do Obey, trying to correlate all the different spiritual experiences people describe and pointing out the similarities and differences. I look forward to your data.

Feb 20 2013:
please read more carefully. I was saying my position on fallibilism/agnosticism of not benig 100% sure about not being 100% sure about everything else is a belief. I've said that I do not BELIEVE in GOD. I do not know whether s/he/it exists or not. I do not BELIEVE i can be 100% sure that it does or it doesn't regardless of the amount of information given to me. Now it doesn't mean that nothing in the world could change my belief in god or nature of knowledge. I don't know that. I know my beliefs, I look out to the world and consider my beliefs in accordance with evidence, plausibility as well as my personal liking. I was referring with regards to fallibilism that not being 100% sure about its truth doesn't make me feel like a hypocrite.

Feb 21 2013:
Your chosen religion is called Arational Atheism. It is defined as: "Believing there is no rational basis for not believing in God, but exclusively choosing to not believe anyway." Are you sure you do not belong in the Agnostic religion which is defined as: "Believing God might, or might not, exist and avoid making an exclusive choice of either possibility."?
Academic note: If you wish to reply to a post which has no "REPLY" button, scroll up to the next post by the person to whom you wish to reply which does have a REPLY button. Click-on that button and begin your reply with, "RE: "[quote a few of the opening words from the post to which you are replying here]". If there is no REPLY button available for the person then create a new post and begin it with, "@ [enter the name of the person to whom you wish to reply]".