note that you hit up and address the ball with the edge of the racket - it will open up automatically at the last second as you hit from left to right. caution: when snapping the wrist it is meant to turn your hand from left to right with a snaping motion, NOT to snap your wrist forward and down. You can begin with your arm already behind your back; you can turn the top of your hand inward toward your ear, then hit up (with your triceps) and hit (snap) across from left to right. You can also practice this against the fence, describing the address of the edge toward the windscreen, then opening up as the racket hits the fence at the top of your arm extension, then tracing the face of the racket across and down until it turns in the opposite direction across your body. It's harder to describe in words than to see on the DVD, which makes it very easy to follow.

10-17-2009, 03:09 PM

clock-

That pretty much explained everything, thanks.

10-20-2009, 03:25 PM

LeeD

Also remember... lots of pros can get a deadball effect with their first flat serves. They use a slight twists towards EBH from continental, pronate more, and the resulting fast moving ball gets a slight deadball, or knuckleball effect, to arc into the court even thos it's moving fast.

10-20-2009, 05:36 PM

Lawn Tennis

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeD

Also remember... lots of pros can get a deadball effect with their first flat serves. They use a slight twists towards EBH from continental, pronate more, and the resulting fast moving ball gets a slight deadball, or knuckleball effect, to arc into the court even thos it's moving fast.

interesting.. but are you sure?

10-20-2009, 08:32 PM

clock-

It makes sense, the lines on the tennis ball would catch the air in a similar fashion to the strings on a baseball. Also it explains how the shorter guys can hit flat serves in consistently.

11-26-2009, 01:14 PM

LeeD

I hope we all didn't forget about gravity, which arcs the ball downward, and fuzz drag, which slows down the ball so gravity can take greater effect.
So, 5'11" and reach 7'4" off the ground. Gives about a 9' high strikezone at the baseline. I jump at least 10" (my heels) off the ground on first flats. I lean into the court at least 16", since that's where I toss my ball. Now do some math.
I also use conti grip with a slight favor towards EBH for first flat serves. That gives my flat serves a knuckleball or deadball effect, causing MORE arc and higher bounce.
Serves timed around 129 at my best (30 years ago), so maybe 115 now.
Then, usually around mid chest level for a player at the baseline.
Now, closer to belly button high bounces for a player at the baseline.
Then, about 45% in practice, closer to 30% in matches.
Now, about 45% in practice, closer to 25% in matches.
So I now employ more of an assortment of well placed tops, slices, twists, and kickers.

11-26-2009, 03:13 PM

Lawn Tennis

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeD

I hope we all didn't forget about gravity, which arcs the ball downward, and fuzz drag, which slows down the ball so gravity can take greater effect.
So, 5'11" and reach 7'4" off the ground. Gives about a 9' high strikezone at the baseline. I jump at least 10" (my heels) off the ground on first flats. I lean into the court at least 16", since that's where I toss my ball. Now do some math.

The only problem with relying on gravity is that the faster you hit it, gravity will have less time pulling the ball down. So Roddicks 150 mph flat serves don't get much help from gravity.. but just enough.

11-26-2009, 05:12 PM

tennisking1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lawn Tennis

The only problem with relying on gravity is that the faster you hit it, gravity will have less time pulling the ball down. So Roddicks 150 mph flat serves don't get much help from gravity.. but just enough.

Three years of playing on tour and coaching and hitting with numerous tour players, I have never seen a completely flat serve. Never. Sampras had a slight amount of spin on even is flattest serve. Spin creates control. As for whether you should work on that flat serve. Yes, but pronate the wrist and add some spin to it. I used to hit with Magnus Larrson who was a 6'5" tall Swedish pro and he never once hit a non-spinning serve. He nailed them too. It really is more about placement. Experiment with different spins on the serve to throw off your opponents timing. Besides, even with his 150 mph serve, when was the last time Roddick won a major? Nadal nor Federer are considered to be huge servers. They just place it well.

11-26-2009, 05:54 PM

03White

If you're the returner then, how to return?
If it spins very fast, and lands hard, how would you return?
I know the question is kind of basic, but obviously you have to try to break your opponent's serve.

11-26-2009, 06:46 PM

Lawn Tennis

Quote:

Originally Posted by tennisking1

Three years of playing on tour and coaching and hitting with numerous tour players, I have never seen a completely flat serve. Never. Sampras had a slight amount of spin on even is flattest serve. Spin creates control. As for whether you should work on that flat serve. Yes, but pronate the wrist and add some spin to it. I used to hit with Magnus Larrson who was a 6'5" tall Swedish pro and he never once hit a non-spinning serve. He nailed them too. It really is more about placement. Experiment with different spins on the serve to throw off your opponents timing. Besides, even with his 150 mph serve, when was the last time Roddick won a major? Nadal nor Federer are considered to be huge servers. They just place it well.

which is exactly what i thought. a perfectly flat serve has such a small margin of error even for somebody 7' tall. These guys talking about knuckes balls may not know exactly what they're talking about. the difference between a pitcher pitching and a server serving - the pitcher holds and releases the ball exactly how he intended. a server on the other hand, must toss the ball which means he has less control.

11-26-2009, 09:48 PM

tennisking1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lawn Tennis

which is exactly what i thought. a perfectly flat serve has such a small margin of error even for somebody 7' tall. These guys talking about knuckes balls may not know exactly what they're talking about. the difference between a pitcher pitching and a server serving - the pitcher holds and releases the ball exactly how he intended. a server on the other hand, must toss the ball which means he has less control.

No way you are pronating your wrist totally and hitting a knuckleball. A continental grip will pronate and cause a natural spin to be imparted. Even if it is slight. My biggest serve speed was near 130 mph and that was just for a radar gun. I rarely tried to hit the ball that hard. It hurt my shoulder too much, and if my opponent got the ball back, I was usually stuck in no man's land trying to recover from my service motion. Placement is the key to a good serve. I use my kick serve as an extreme weapon. You just have to practice it. I usually can make a kick serve kick from one side of a player's body completely to the other side and keep it shoulder height or higher. Just took some practice. Realize that the kick serve is not a fast serve. If you must too much forward momentum into it, it will overpower the spin rotation and the ball will not really kick much. You have to see how much torque you can put on the ball. It's all about spin on the kicker, not speed.

11-27-2009, 12:10 AM

Lawn Tennis

Quote:

Originally Posted by tennisking1

No way you are pronating your wrist totally and hitting a knuckleball. A continental grip will pronate and cause a natural spin to be imparted. Even if it is slight. My biggest serve speed was near 130 mph and that was just for a radar gun. I rarely tried to hit the ball that hard. It hurt my shoulder too much, and if my opponent got the ball back, I was usually stuck in no man's land trying to recover from my service motion. Placement is the key to a good serve. I use my kick serve as an extreme weapon. You just have to practice it. I usually can make a kick serve kick from one side of a player's body completely to the other side and keep it shoulder height or higher. Just took some practice. Realize that the kick serve is not a fast serve. If you must too much forward momentum into it, it will overpower the spin rotation and the ball will not really kick much. You have to see how much torque you can put on the ball. It's all about spin on the kicker, not speed.

TK I'm at a 3.5 level and use that kick serve you talk about all the time. Obviously, mine isn't near as pretty as yours, but because my opponents aren't at the pro level like yours my kick is very effective. Just a few days ago, i played a 4.0 level guy who simply could not handle the spin and kick of my serve. it was great.. they were just as good as an ace half the time. i was using second serves as my first half the time cause he just hated them.

so where have you been? did you have a good holiday?

11-27-2009, 12:36 AM

clock-

So basically what people call a flat serve has some spin, but is hit fast and low over the net?

And that's pretty great LT, did you bounce any over his head?

Quote:

Originally Posted by 03White

If you're the returner then, how to return?
If it spins very fast, and lands hard, how would you return?
I know the question is kind of basic, but obviously you have to try to break your opponent's serve.

The best way to return a topspin serve is probably to step back and wait for it to curve down a bit. If your timing is ridiculously good you can hit the ball on the rise before it gets too high.

11-27-2009, 03:36 AM

Lawn Tennis

Quote:

Originally Posted by clock-

And that's pretty great LT, did you bounce any over his head?

a couple of them were up at his head, but he got to them. however, i did have one that curved into him and almost hit him :D