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Too many "dodgy" results.

Last time I started a thread about my side having too many "dodgy" results, it was closed without reason. I believe the moderator called it a 'non-issue' - despite me having an issue. Okay, so I deleted that save game and embarked on a new one. However, the same issue exists. Now, I know most users will respond telling me that it's 'my tactics', but those are the people with their head's buried in the sand.

These are just 4 examples of "dodgy" results, but I could post hundreds more. I understand that people don't want the game to be decided by having the better squad, but when results are so blatantly contrived it leaves a bad taste. My teams are always superior, yet I find that the game tries its hardest to create a negative result. The last screenshot takes the biscuit completely.

It's true that you can feel cheated when you dominate but only get 1 point. But rather than putting the blame on the game you need to actually watch the game carefully and see why that kind of result is happening to you. More often than not it will be that your opponent is very defensive while your team is very offensive.
So you keep on attacking but can't create good enough chances due to the sturdy defence. Then you allow a goal or two because your opponent sneaks in with counter attack.

When you start feeling that you are hitting a wall even though you are dominating, then you need to pull back a bit and let your opponent come out of the hole.

They arent dodgy. These threads come up every so often and are closed because there isnt an issue. because they post their save and someones goes and wins the next bunch of matches

3 of those games you have 20+ shots on goal and at best you get 7 on target. There is your issue right, there and that isnt down to the game.

The reason this thread would get closed is because youve already decided that you cant be at fault and that anyone who disagrees has their head in the sand.

Upload your game save.

Erm, I've posted examples from several save games, so I'm just showing that it isn't due to one specific squad. My strikers have the required attributes to score consistently, though fail to do so. I've even downloaded "super" tactics to see, yet it still occurs. I've no doubt that someone could win most of the matches when you consider it's the Moldovan league. However, how would that help me?

The likely hood is that it is actually your tactics. You may be having alot of shots, but I would hazard a guess that plenty of them are coming from outside the box becuase your tactics aren't enabling you to create more clear opportunities.

Erm, I've posted examples from several save games, so I'm just showing that it isn't due to one specific squad. My strikers have the required attributes to score consistently, though fail to do so. I've even downloaded "super" tactics to see, yet it still occurs. I've no doubt that someone could win most of the matches when you consider it's the Moldovan league. However, how would that help me?

You've pick isolated games from several saves, i already noticed that, doesnt change the fact that you are having huge amounts of shots , with very few on target. That's scattergun, usually a high number of poor quality attempts. Off the bat that sounds like a brute force approach, from whatever "super" tactic you downloaded. Consider using a more measured approach, a good approach, coupled with a good well balanced side will do very well most of the time. If you have the good squad, then you should be looking at your approach.

But you're not looking for help though. You've decided that you cant be at fault

It looks like you aren't able to convert shots into goals. These are my conversion ratios:

Goals / Shots: 56 / 331 (1 goal in 5.9 shots)

Goals / Shots on Target: 56 / 134 (1 goal in 2.4 SOT)

If you are significantly higher than those stats, then you have identified your problem. Please have a check to see if this is the issue. If so, you'll need to change your strategic and tactical approach to matches.

It looks like you aren't able to convert shots into goals. These are my conversion ratios:

Goals / Shots: 56 / 331 (1 goal in 5.9 shots)

Goals / Shots on Target: 56 / 134 (1 goal in 2.4 SOT)

If you are significantly higher than those stats, then you have identified your problem. Please have a check to see if this is the issue. If so, you'll need to change your strategic and tactical approach to matches.

I have several screenshots to post, but I'll need help identifying the problem.

It's very simple. Yu have your whole team trying to make through passes to the two FCs, with nobody else making runs into space to open up options or angles. Consequently, all the opposition need to do is crowd out your front two and you'l struggle to score.

It's very simple. Yu have your whole team trying to make through passes to the two FCs, with nobody else making runs into space to open up options or angles. Consequently, all the opposition need to do is crowd out your front two and you'l struggle to score.

How do I remedy the problem? Should I reduce the frequency of through balls?

It looks like you aren't able to convert shots into goals. These are my conversion ratios:Goals / Shots: 56 / 331 (1 goal in 5.9 shots)Goals / Shots on Target: 56 / 134 (1 goal in 2.4 SOT)If you are significantly higher than those stats, then you have identified your problem. Please have a check to see if this is the issue. If so, you'll need to change your strategic and tactical approach to matches.

How do I remedy the problem? Should I reduce the frequency of through balls?

Personally, I'd tear up the tactic and start again. It has a lot of issues. FWRs, mentality gaps, passing style, a massive reliance on the front two. It might keep the ball and generate a high shot count, but it is not a good tactic in terms of movement and positioning.

Have you read any of the stickied tactical overview threads in the tactical forum? They'd really help you.

Personally, I'd tear up the tactic and start again. It has a lot of issues. FWRs, mentality gaps, passing style, a massive reliance on the front two. It might keep the ball and generate a high shot count, but it is not a good tactic in terms of movement and positioning. Have you read any of the stickied tactical overview threads in the tactical forum? They'd really help you.

I skimmed the one by Cleon, but I have a feeling that I'll need to read it in-depth to solve the issues.

I can't go on with the obscene amount of draws - it's just ridiculous.

If that's the case, then these lots of shots / few goals games must be few and far between. What's your defensive record like?

Generally, it's good. However, far too frequently a side has 1 or 2 shots on target and scores. I know that occasionally a side will make the most of their opportunities, but the key word is 'occasionally'. Perhaps it's something to do with my tactic, who knows?

If I had to the guess the problem, you have 4 players who are pretty much only dedicated to offense, and your central midfielders aren't very defensive minded either. If any of your defenders are caught out of position (not particularly rare since you're not playing with world class players with Sheriff and Elgin), your defense has pretty much no protection. In that situation, its not hard to see how a deep defending team playing the counter can take advantage of a lack of concentration to strike

If I had to the guess the problem, you have 4 players who are pretty much only dedicated to offense, and your central midfielders aren't very defensive minded either. If any of your defenders are caught out of position (not particularly rare since you're not playing with world class players with Sheriff and Elgin), your defense has pretty much no protection. In that situation, its not hard to see how a deep defending team playing the counter can take advantage of a lack of concentration to strike

Doesn't explain how I only score 1 goal from 20+ shots. Also, with Elgin, the year was 2028 so I think you're being extremely presumptuous with your 'not playing with world class players' comment.

20/5, 20/4 and 20/7 are all extremely poor conversion ratios and tells me everything I need to know about those results. I'd say that anything below 50% on-target ratio and 33% goal from on target is poor. Since scoring four goals or more is relatively rare, I'd say that 18/9/3 (shots/on goal/goals) should be what you see after a good match. If you create more goalscoring opportunities than that during a match, the likelyhood of scoring more goals does not increase significantly. Thus, you should/will see that when you do score more than 3 goals in a match this does not come from creating more shots but from having a higher goal from shots on goal ratio or a higher shots on goal from shots ratio, or both.

So tactically, you need to create fewer but better shots, and to do so your players need to pick their options more carefully and be more patient. So the tempo must be slow, the mentalities of the forwards must be less attacking and they need to make better decisions as for when to hit that through ball, so telling them to do so whenever they can is not a good idea.

Another tactical problem which reinforces the problem you're experiencing is that the midfielders in 4-2-4 are entirely useless. With attacking mentalities they create giant holes behind them, with defensive mentalities they don't contribute to the attack at all and with balanced mentalities (like in your tactic) they do both and neither. The solution is to move them back to DMC positions and make their mentalities more attacking. That way they often control the midfield entirely while being the 3rd and 4th central defenders when you're defending.

Doesn't explain how I only score 1 goal from 20+ shots. Also, with Elgin, the year was 2028 so I think you're being extremely presumptuous with your 'not playing with world class players' comment.

You realize I posted right after you were talking about why your defense giving up goals right? That's why I talked about the defensive problems you might be having, and I didn't mention the offensive part of it because wwfan was already talking about it and seems like hes much more knowledgeable than I am.

Not sure why you say I'm being extremely presumptuous, its more that I didn't realize that you were in 2028 with one team, considering you stated in the original post that you were embarking on a new save and had two different teams posted. Honest mistake buddy

As a Liverpool fan, I've watched a lot of their games this season. Check out the stats from their matches and you will see that your results are not dodgy at all. The number of times they have dominated possession and had over 20 shots and still not won games is crazy, but Kenny D doesn't post on a forum saying how unfair it all is.

Surely the more important stat is their 4 SOT to your 5?In the St Mirren game it was 2 SOT to your 4?Nothing wrong there as far as I can see - suggest you look at the match analysis screen to see where the shots are being taken from

I already know where they're being taken from. They're being taken long range, despite me having every player set to 'rarely' and creative freedom at the same level. If anything, that seems more dodgy.

I already know where they're being taken from. They're being taken long range, despite me having every player set to 'rarely' and creative freedom at the same level. If anything, that seems more dodgy.

Low creative freedom will of course only make them decide to try panicky shots even more often. They choose this option when the four guys up front are all marked or have finished their runs already. That's a telltale sign that the team has no space to work in and that the instructions they are being told to do are difficult to follow through.

Again, it's your tactics! Many shots do not equal a good tactic. Neither do high possession. It may work fine for the most part but evidently you encounter AI strategies that you don't cope too well with, and you are showing no will to do anything about it...

So you can either tweak your tactic to work better in the type of matches that you're struggling with, or you can adopt a TC&Shout strategy to do the same. In either case, it's a tactical and/or motivational issue (if you are correct that it isn't a player issue) - not a form of rubberbanding.

Again, it's your tactics! Many shots do not equal a good tactic. Neither do high possession. It may work fine for the most part but evidently you encounter AI strategies that you don't cope too well with, and you are showing no will to do anything about it...

The problem seems to be that many shots and high possession used to equal good tactic in many previous FMs and even earlier CMs. Judging by numerous topics on more or less the same issue on the forums, people are having difficulty adapting to the new thinking process.

Low creative freedom will of course only make them decide to try panicky shots even more often. They choose this option when the four guys up front are all marked or have finished their runs already. That's a telltale sign that the team has no space to work in and that the instructions they are being told to do are difficult to follow through.

Again, it's your tactics! Many shots do not equal a good tactic. Neither do high possession. It may work fine for the most part but evidently you encounter AI strategies that you don't cope too well with, and you are showing no will to do anything about it...

So you can either tweak your tactic to work better in the type of matches that you're struggling with, or you can adopt a TC&Shout strategy to do the same. In either case, it's a tactical and/or motivational issue (if you are correct that it isn't a player issue) - not a form of rubberbanding.

Exactly this. IMO you shouldn't need to instruct all players to rarely shoot from distance to improve chance creation. Actually increasing options in the attacking phase means your players won't see a long shot as the best option so often.

I already know where they're being taken from. They're being taken long range, despite me having every player set to 'rarely' and creative freedom at the same level. If anything, that seems more dodgy.

If there aren't any other options available to players, then they will have no other option than to take a long shot, despite you saying that you only want them to take long shots rarely - you need to work out how to get more of your players into more attacking positions to provide support, so that they have more options available rather than just shooting.

this game throws out freaky results all the time.
2015/16
bury and yeovil are sat in blue square after back to back religations (11/12 and 12/13) while luton went the other way and ended up in league 1, east stirling got promoted to SD2.. then got relegated again LOL
seriously though i have given up caring about these results, after winning the scottish league challange cup beating half of SD1 with east stirling in the process

I just lost in the Europa League final to Athletic Club. The match was really even, but in the 74th minute my defender decides to turn away from a low cross so that it can hit his backside. Brilliant.

The problem with crosses is that unlike other passes, they're generally a bit of a free-for-all. Whoever can get on the end of it sticks it in, and it doesn't have to be aimed at anyone.

FM seems to have problems dealing with this. An attacker or defender will "claim" the cross - in the match view their name will appear over them, as it does when a player is actually in possession - and everyone else will act like there's no chance of them getting the ball.

Sometimes it means one of your STs getting hit in the face with the ball and making no attempt to head it in: sometimes it means crappy own goals.

this game throws out freaky results all the time.
2015/16
bury and yeovil are sat in blue square after back to back religations (11/12 and 12/13) while luton went the other way and ended up in league 1, east stirling got promoted to SD2.. then got relegated again LOL
seriously though i have given up caring about these results, after winning the scottish league challange cup beating half of SD1 with east stirling in the process

How are these freaky? Bury haven't played above L1 since 1957. Yeovil were non-league as recently as 2002. Luton won the League Cup in 1987 and played in the top flight until 1992. None of the patterns you mentioned are even slightly far-fetched.

I just lost in the Europa League final to Athletic Club. The match was really even, but in the 74th minute my defender decides to turn away from a low cross so that it can hit his backside. Brilliant.

It's a bug. You'll have scored from it too. THis kind of moan really detracts from your original problem, which is tactical, and makes it seem just as if you don't think you should ever lose. You'll not get much sympathy if you really think the latter.

Funny, when people see a "whining" thread there are 47 replies. When someone asks a similar question without an implicit criticism of the game 0 replies. Interesting....

Not all that interesting when you consider the whining threads generally contain over the top the statements that (some obviously by design) provoke comment. Asking questions that don't begin with the premise that something is broken with FM or that the AI cheats are more likely to get helpful responses in the T&T forum.

bury getting relegated from league 1 isn't the problem, it is the fact they got relegated from league 2 the season after and keep losing in the playoffs and thier team is almost the same.
and bury have played above league 1. they were in the championship for 2 seasons in the late 90's

Funny, when people see a "whining" thread there are 47 replies. When someone asks a similar question without an implicit criticism of the game 0 replies. Interesting....

There's a reason. Over the years there have been so many FM myths flying about, largely as a result of the whining threads, that a lot of people have actually taken them as true. Things like, for example:

AI cracking tactics

AI super goalies

AI rubber banding

Scripted matches

Hard coded inferior conversion rates for humans

If you start believing any of the above, then your chance of getting to grips with how to be successful in FM drops hugely. In terms of these forums being a useful resource for the user base, it is very important that bad advice and false assumptions are dealt with. That way, the vast majority of people reading the forums get helped, not put off, by the information within.

bury getting relegated from league 1 isn't the problem, it is the fact they got relegated from league 2 the season after and keep losing in the playoffs and thier team is almost the same.
and bury have played above league 1. they were in the championship for 2 seasons in the late 90's

My bad. Misread it. However, they only survived going into the conference in the last match of the season in 06/07.

I don't see why a club that's been relegated into the conference should bounce straight back up. Or that successive relegations are unrealistic. Very few clubs have bounced straight back out of the conference. Lots of clubs have been relegated two seasons in a row. Why is it a problem?

Things like this happen all the time in real life football. Every season is different, and if it would be the same it'll be boring. Man United 1 - 6 Man City, Chelsea 3 - 5 Arsenal, Tottenham 1 - 5 Man City, Man United 8 - 2 Arsenal. Whoe expected these results? It just happens in football, anything's possible.

I've had some extremely dodgy results in my save. I've drew a game 1-1 where I've had 30 plus shots and they didn't have a single shot, it was an own goal. Just happens, and it does happen in real life.

the main issue is the dodgy match engine.
and the fact away form is broken (play chelsea away scrape a win, then get outplayed away at liecester, just no not possible that team turn into muppets)
and match engine being dumb. conceded a penatly for a foul that happened in the box when the ball was not in the box but about to be crossed in. that is dumb and irritating.

the main issue is the dodgy match engine.
and the fact away form is broken (play chelsea away scrape a win, then get outplayed away at liecester, just no not possible that team turn into muppets)
and match engine being dumb. conceded a penatly for a foul that happened in the box when the ball was not in the box but about to be crossed in. that is dumb and irritating.

Although there are bugs, errors and irritations in the ME, your getting outplayed by Leicester is an issue all of your own making. Start working out what you might be doing wrong, rather than blaming everything else under the sun.

issue of my own making? it is the same for all away games i was keeping them out and they are like 6th in the table and are acctually hard to beat. but it is always away from. and most of the goals i concede are because of randomness happening in away games with the match engine (players ignoring the ball right infront of them happens often, in real life they would control it or clear it) i am not doing anything wrong, i got oddities against chelsea. i had a corner, the ball ended up infront of thier goalpost and a goal kick was awarded. silly stuff like that gets irritating. and can contribute to the result offsides when the player clearly isnt.
you play worse away that happens, i take whatever happens i scraped 1-0 wins away from home that are hard fought with no ME screwovers.
AI goales are pretty good sometimes.
and the scripted matches are not a myth.. they are when you hit "play" to start match, you can change the script though.

So you can probably understand how some, genuinely in need of help, get frustrated when the forum seems to use up more energy disproving threads it doesn't approve of, rather than providing effective help to less shouty posters?

This doesn't make sense, people expend a great deal of time helping lots of other people.

i said they were tougher. that is one of the reasons for these crazy results look at the AI ones.
if a minor ME error costs me a match then that is an issue, at home i go attack away i play more defecive. and work the results, unbeaten season last season.
the ammount of corners and goal kicks from balls that don't cross the line is insane though really.
and i have had a fair few teams scoring from thier only chance no matter the gulf in quality.
sometimes you get the odd unexplained one though

i'm not. i'm explaining away form can develop the strange results.
it is all well and good setting up tactics etc, but i have no control of players playing sluggish or misplacing passes like crazy away from home, that is what anmoys me. a team plays some crazy narrow formation, so i say exploit the flanks. ball never goes there.
there is a big differance in home and away sometimes.

that is exacly what i am saying. one of my few defeats in my "unbeaten" season was a "freak" result in some terms. i outplayed barca needing a goal, players just wern't at the races in terms of shooting which happens, and lost to thier only shot on goal. cant complain team played as i expected bar the finishing and was satisfied but dissapointed at the team performance, it happens in real life all the time.

if i tried my home (4-2-2-2) attacking tactic away from home i can expect some heavy defeats. due to all those things like the sluggish play etc, opposition team are more up to it, therfore harder to play as you like. so have to change things. i sometimes let assman do a game (he beats man city away all the time) as he uses a flat 4-4-2 i dont have on my prefered formations. but most of the time a 4-5-1 (or whatever the default 4-5-1 acctually is) doe to my defencive mids being decent and also decent wingers.
4-4-1-1 seems to work a treat when i have used it.
i have had one freak result go my way. a 0-3 win against sevilla with reserves.

complacetency is probably the problem, yet you can see that at the start of the game team talk.

Read around more, you'll find the threads with the most posts are the ones where people are critical of the game. Human nature I guess, but a reasonably simple premise.

That's because when someone wants help and is receptive to it, they are usually assisted quickly, they become happy, and they stop posting, or move to more topical forums such as the career updates, tactics&training, editors lounge, LLM, whatever they want to do really.

The people who, as you put it, are 'critical' of the game, often don't actually want their issues to be resolved - at least, they don't seem to. But that doesn't mean that they won't receive some, ahem, constructive suggestions. It's not hard to see why those threads drag on, for anyone who's spent any time on any internet forum on any topic.