EDIT: I may be biased towards more recent pitchers/guys I've seen pitch, but I'm also a cynic regarding how difficult it was to pitch in the old day, with enormous parks, super heavy bats, a true chest to knees strike zone, and higher mounds. I know expansion has watered down lineups to a degree, but I think it's easier to hit and slug in today's game than it was 60 years ago. I'd love an explanation from anyone who thinks the game hasn't shifted towards offense.

Huh? How is a guy with 500 career wins over rated. I dont care what era the guy pitched in, thats still an insane total. To say hes over rated is absolutely ridiculous, he is one of the few people who will forever hold a major league record.

Other than that I like the list, but its really tough to make for reasons you stated. How do we gauge the guys we've never seen pitch? Do we go on stats alone? Not too mention there are different eras of baseball so its all around a tough thing to do. However, I personally can't think a pitcher that you snubbed at this point...

bigh0rt wrote:EDIT: I may be biased towards more recent pitchers/guys I've seen pitch, but I'm also a cynic regarding how difficult it was to pitch in the old day, with enormous parks, super heavy bats, a true chest to knees strike zone, and higher mounds. I know expansion has watered down lineups to a degree, but I think it's easier to hit and slug in today's game than it was 60 years ago. I'd love an explanation from anyone who thinks the game hasn't shifted towards offense.

This is the Second Live Ball era. It was just as difficult, if not more so, to pitch in the 30s and 40s than it is today. Unless you just want to automatically assume that the pitchers during the 30s and 40s were absolute junk. There has certainly been a shift towards offense compared to time period before the late 20s and the period between the mid 50s and the 80s. But the game has also become much easier on the pitchers. Being great for 33 starts and 220 innings isn't quite as impressive as being great for 40 starts and 350 innings.

bigh0rt wrote:A few friends and I were debating this two days ago, and we came to a concensus that I'm pretty happy with... Interested to see what people think, and what other people have as their Top 10 and why.

EDIT: I may be biased towards more recent pitchers/guys I've seen pitch, but I'm also a cynic regarding how difficult it was to pitch in the old day, with enormous parks, super heavy bats, a true chest to knees strike zone, and higher mounds. I know expansion has watered down lineups to a degree, but I think it's easier to hit and slug in today's game than it was 60 years ago. I'd love an explanation from anyone who thinks the game hasn't shifted towards offense.