OKW Commander Revamp Discussion

Comments

[0CP]
Developers would need to model a Flak 88 from scratch. Pak 43 AT guns are already powerful and available to the OKW. These guns are already better since they defy all logic and can shoot through world objects as well. The sWs 20mm Flak cannon and AA-Halftrack already fill the niche of Anti-Air.

[2CP]
Panzer IIs and Jagdpanzer VIs can already camouflage and can also move while camouflaged. And they are non-doctrinal options. Giving camouflage options for the Panther, King Tiger, Panzer IV, Puma and Halftrack variants is over the top.

[3CP]
2x Panzerschrecks and an engine snare and anti-infantry is a big no-no to the Balance Department. This isn't as profound as Bazookas or PIATs simply because they don't have the penetration nor alpha damage. But on the axis, this is too much. This makes the core infantry like the Sturmpioneer, Raketenwerfer and Volksgrenadier even more obsolete because this unit can do the job of all three, with the exception of repairs.

[5CP]
Sdkfz. 251/22 does not have much to give to the table considering it is outclassed by the Puma with 360 Degree turret rotation and even Raketenwerfer crews which can go invisible and retreat.

[6CP]
This ability can be replaced with JU-87G Stuka Strafing runs from the Ostheer faction because they can already do massive damage to tanks with their twin rapid fire 37mm cannons and can only target tanks anyway.

[13CP]
Developers would need to model the Jagdpanther from scratch. Elefants, Jagdpanzers with HEAT shells and Jagdtigers already fill this role. I also notice that this commander has 6 commander abilities instead of the usual 5.

Thank you for pointing out the drawbacks on the proposal. As for the abilities of the commander, you are right, I think you could refuse from disguise. But in terms of Hs-129 V-3 and Jagdpanther G2, I probably would not agree, I would like to see a variety in technology in the game, I think new samples would not be superfluous, but on the other hand, developers really have to strain, but I think the players will only appreciate it .

Make the Opel Blitz truck from Feuerstorm a non-doctrinal unit and replace it with the Ostheer's Cargo Truck. It's a pretty munitions-intensive doctrine so, it could use the boost. Plus, the non-doctrinal truck would give this faction some much needed infantry mobility. It's munitions buff would have to be removed so it wouldn't unduly affect play balance and it would be built out of the Battlegroup HQ truck.

Every other faction has some type of vehicular transport as part of their core force except for the OKW.

The Soviets have a Scout Car and a Half-track. The Ostheer has a Half-track. The British have a carrier. The US has no dedicated transport but, all their vehicles can be de-crewed and "commandeered" by infantry units for use as ad hoc transport, with the crew forced to do the walking instead. It only makes sense to use the Ambulance Truck or the M20 for this purpose because, the other vehicles are proper fighting units and are needed as such. The US also has multiple commanders with trucks or half-tracks so, players who want dedicated transports have plenty of access to them.

The OKW has no core transports and only one commander which possesses one. It's only an unarmed truck with a munitions buff aura. If the buff were removed, the truck would still be the weakest transport in the game. Making it a part of the core force would give the OKW some much needed infantry mobility without upsetting the force balance much.

It would also fix the historical inaccuracy issue. The Germans may have had fuel issues late in the war but, they still used trucks to move units - just not on the same scale as the Allies.

The Scavenged weapons packages is to give Captured tools to enhance or change a given units tactics for example making SPIOS better AT troops, Volks become Long range dps troops, and making Obers Elite mid to close range fighters.

SturmPioneers can now be upgraded with two Bazookas (100MU)

Volksgrenadier can be upgraded with two DP-28s (60MU)

Obersoldaten can now a receive BARS (60MU can be purchased twice for a total of 120MU)

This is my Commander Design for your specifications. It's meant to reflect the modernization of the "Motorized Infantry Doctrine" in the Ostheer's Revamp Idea. Main idea why OKW has no non-doctrinal transports is because their HQ's are meant to facilitate faster frontline combat. Same for the USF since they have no true non-doctrinal transport either.

In Summary.

Light Mechanized Doctrine

[0CP]Breakthrough TacticsInfantry squads can now decapture territory at increased speeds.

[0CP]Mechanized ReservesMotorized Cargo Trucks and Mechanized 250 Halftracks are now available for deployment at the Battlegroup Headquarters.

[2CP]PanzerfusiliersPanzerfusiliers can now be deployed.

[2CP]Urban Assault PackageInfantry squads can now be trained with urban assault tactics. Sturmpioneers can now use flammenwerfer 35s and lay timed demolition charges for obstacle clearance. Volksgrenadiers can now be equipped with MP40s and M24 Grenades.

Your Light Mechanized Doctrine is interesting, whether in the Ostheer or the OKW. However, it's really a new commander, not a revamp. I also believe there are too many new elements for it to ever see the light of day. It's more likely to appear without the changes, like so:

All these items would be as they already are, just as a new combination. I like the changes you've suggested but, I think the developers will probably be againt them. I think the Osthheer version would be even more neutered, appearing like this:

I say this because it really seems like the developers have an aversion to creating new things and probably aren't that keen on importing OKW units into the Ostheer. Maybe my perception of this is wrong (I certainly hope so); we'll just have to wait and see.

As for my suggestion, it's also very unlikely to happen for similar reasons. It's nice to think it might happen, with the US getting a transport slot added to the M20 to balance it but, I won't be holding my breath waiting for it.

My reason for suggesting it is that I don't really accept that the OKW HQ trucks provide the flexibility available to other factions. It is possible to site them closer to the front but, that comes with the risk of being over-run and destroyed. It also doesn't factor in the likelihood of the frontline shifting and having your retreat point end up well away from the fighting.

The US Major can move if he needs and the British can build a new Forward Assembly so, of the Western Front armies, the OKW is at a disadvantage. An OKW's player's only option for moving is to destroy his Battlegroup HQ truck, buy another supply truck and site it in a new place. If the HQ trucks could de-camp and move, like the British trucks in CoH1, that would balance things but, I don't see that happening.

The comparison to the Eastern Front armies is a bit different but, the disadvantage remains. Both the Ostheer and the Soviets have non-doctrinal half-tracks which can reinforce anywhere on the map and move if the fighting gets too close or upgrade into true combat units. The OKW player can only do that if he selects the Feuersturm commander and what he gets is a very weak truck with a slight munitions buff that can't be upgraded at all.

It's possible that giving the OKW non-doctrinal trucks would have unforeseen consequences that would unbalance the game but, I think it would only provide a little more flexibility to the faction without adding any combat power. As I said, I don't see it happening; I just wanted to know what other people thought about it. Cheers.

Given the unlikeliness of the Opel Blitz Truck being made non-doctrinal, I would like to propose an alternative solution - make the Infiltration Tactics grenades a non-doctrinal base upgrade like the grenades of the Allied factions. This would free up a slot at the same Command Point level for the Opel Blitz in the Scavenge and Special Operations doctrines, giving the OKW three commanders with trucks instead of just one. It's not as all-encompassing as making the trucks non-doctrinal but, it still gives OKW players some more flexibility if they want motorised infantry.

I don't think that making a grenade that can only be used occasionally non-doctrinal is going to upset the balance of the game very much. I also think the name is highly deceptive. Infiltration Tactics should really be an ability to completely surprise the enemy by suddenly appearing somewhere unexpected, perhaps using a combination of Ambush Training and Radio Silence abilities. It should involve more than just a grenade that can only be used if a unit has been out of combat.

Personally, I'd like to see both German doctrinal grenade abilities removed from the commanders' rosters. The so-called Infiltration grenades should be removed for the reasons above and the Model 24 Stun Grenades should be attached to Stormtrooper units as their type of grenade. They are an infiltration unit, frequently fighting behind enemy lines, so a stun grenade makes sense for them. This would also mean that both commanders with Stormtroopers would have access to the grenades. Again, I don't believe it would affect the balance of the game much because, the units that could use the grenades would be limited to just Stormtroopers.

Doing this would free up a slot in the Elite Troops doctrine for something a little more elite. If it were limited to something of equal Command Point value, then Entrenching Tools is the only swap that makes sense. This would afford your infantry the ability to create their own cover, as you would expect elite troops to do. However, if the choice is unrestricted, I would prefer to see Spotting Scopes used instead. This would give all the vehicles under this commander an edge in spotting distance, making them more elite than line units.

As some of you may have guessed, I'm relatively new to the game. I've been playing CoH2 for about 1 1/2 years and I played COH1 for about a year before that. This means I am unaware of how the game has changed from previous incarnations.

I recently found out that one of the things which has been changed is the removal of a "Scuttle" option from OKW HQ trucks. This explains a lot, particularly why the OKW faction doesn't seem to work the way it should. Removing this option has made it very difficult to relocate any of the HQ's once they are sited. A player must allocate significant combat units to destroy a HQ truck now, instead of simply pushing a button.

This is absurd!

It is the same damn problem as not being able to disband emplacements, having to waste resources on destroying them if the schwerpunkt has moved elsewhere (or having to accept fighting with one arm tied behind your back). It is a huge penalty for anyone playing as the British (the OKW penalty is not as great but still makes no sense). To balance this, every other faction should have their vehicles run out of fuel at some point (preferably at some critical point in a battle) and then have to send an infantry unit to refuel them. That's how stupid it is!

Please, put the "Scuttle" option back into OKW HQ trucks but, this time don't make it an explosion. Just have it "brew up" like a tank, catching fire but otherwise not damaging anything around it. That way this faction will start to make sense again. The other alternative is to make the Opel Blitz truck non-doctrinal as I suggested above.

[While you're at it, allow all emplacements to be disbanded so players don't have to waste time and resources destroying them. Wrong thread but, I'm on a roll with this whinge.]

@PanzerFutz Also a little off-topic. But as a general feedback, I'd really wish to see "Manual Reload" become an option on all Infantry squads, MG-teams and Autocannons. Pressing this on an infantry squad forces all of its models to reload their weapons to full magazines. A bit awkward to go into combat with a reload animation and can turn the tide of a conflict.

I propose to change the following commander for OKW: Luftwaffe Ground Forces Doctrine.

Reason: Apart from the the Fallschirmjäger, the doctrine is not focused on luftwaffe ground forces concept.

Proposed changes:

Replace [2CP - Heavy Fortifications] by [2CP - Luftwaffe support team]:
The idea is to paradrop a support team (that uses the same models as the Fallschirmjäger, but armed with Kar to make
them weaker). this team should cost around 300 MP to call in. this team should have the ability to crew/decrew at will
any support weapon (MGs, Mortar, AT guns), much like USF vehicles crew.

Replace [2CP - Stuka Smoke reconnaissance] by [2CP - Luftwaffe reserve support weapons]: should cost around 400-
450 MP, and should deliver an MG40 and a Pak gun for crewing.

Lower the cost of [12CP - Airborne Assault] to 180 Munitions, and allow it to reinforce also the Luftwaffe support team.

@Syraw I like the idea of a Fallschirmjaeger support team but, I'd rather see it come in like the Air-dropped Combat Group from the US Recon Support Company. It would be dropped in with a mortar and a raketenwerfer, with full crewing ability as you suggest. Given the regular Fallschirm's all have FG-42's, there's no real need for an additional MG-34/42. A mortar would give them fire support, some counter-battery against enemy mortars and an additional smoke ability.

The reason I say this is because I don't want to lose Heavy Fortifications from this commander. It's too valuable to the core force to be lost and the 2cm Flak gun is a part of the Luftwaffe ground forces. Combining your 2 ideas into one new unit is more of a win-win situation, from my perspective. I don't mind seeing the Stuka Smoke Recon go; I understand what it's purpose is but, something would have to go and I'd rather see that go than anything else.

Signal Relay: tanks can detect enemy vehicles on mini map at twice their sight range
1. make it a cheap timed ability
2. change name to vehicle detectionEmergency Repairs:
1. make it equal to the British ability (vehicle crew repairs)
2. change name to vehicle crew repairsHeat shells:
1. make it more effective vs inf
2. either make it cheaper or last longerPanzer Commander:
1. make it equal to the I&R pathfinder artillery ability.
2. allow all tanks to have access to the upgrade including Luchs, JP4, and Sturm TigerSturm Tiger:
1. get rid of useless grenade ability
2. add stealth ability at vet 1 equal to JP4 or luchs

Something I can suggest with the OKW Special Operations Doctrine is to allow Passive camouflage for the duration of Radio Silence in addition to being invisible on the minimap. Therefore, whenever Radio Silence is active, all infantry in cover will be camouflaged. This synergises with every other ability in the Commander, especially Flares and Infiltration Tactics.

Love adding the scout car and it's ability to give extra resource. But maybe eliminate the main gun upgrade? Just leave it with the mg and reduce slightly it's fuel cost. The main reason its so the unit can be different version of it's faction counterpart. The mg also does a bit more suppression when the resource ability is active.

The emergency repair ability is a bit weird for me. If theres still time for new units maybe swap for versogen fusiliers. They are the panzer fusiliers models. Their vet 1 ability is like that of shermans. When vehicles are nearby they get a bonus. The main role of this unit is to provide support for the armors and work together with them. The vet 0 ability is a smoke grenade. They can upgrade to mg42(osttruppen version) and mp40s(volks version). Another ability can be emergency repair, which is a targeted ability that works like warspeed. But removing critical and healing 160-240hp once it's done.

Overwatch

Don't like much the idea of the artillery on the this commander. For me the theme of this commander is defensive mobility and ambush tactics. To recon and decide how to respond. The jaeger are fine, just not the artillery. A better choice for me would be adding a Stug III. Other than having the five veterancy it would have different ability than the critical shot. Instead the HE rounds from the JT. Another option can be the panzerwerfer.

It's cool the Jaegers are getting buff, yet for me they still feel kinda meh..Why not make them a better versatile unit. They start with just their rifles. They can pick from three upgrades. 4x STGs(since they are being removed from stormtroopers) would make them effective at medium and close ranges. The g43 long range and recon and lastly a anti-tank package(it can be the panzerbusche AT rifles which are in the mod tools) They are weaker than PTRS but to compensate they can get an ability or one Panzerschreck and one panzerbusche.

Other changes:

Like USF, the call in support vehicles suffer from coming in too late, for example the hetzer and the ostwind. Their tier building takes too long for them to have a slight advantage or arriving when needed. You require a lot of effort to get them or keeping them alive when the high tier units are out. For me a good idea would be that these units are in the main hq. In the old slot of the king tiger. To get them you need to set up the battlegroup and mechanize hq or the last tier building. This can give players options, to get an early advantage in some degree or continue the old tactic to save for that last tier building.

Panzerfusiliers need a slight buff. They were great unit due to their pop and vet bonuses, but now they are pretty lame unit. If im not mistaken they have no critical shot. Meaning their weapons can't perform "headshots" like some units do. (or it's too low?) They rely on their high accuracy but they have too low of damage and rate of fire to be menacing. For me their vet is fine, the problem is their base value. Maybe increase damage from rifles, from 10 to 12. So they can be a useful unit and compensate from their commander lock in and pop.

It would be nice if also the sturm offizier had a rework. Like the obers getting g43s and the offizier a stg. And he could vet to 5. Change the unit overall to be like a command panther. Starting with 3 units and at vet 4 gains 1+ and vet 5 the buff bonus affects vehicles. Also access to smoke grenades in vet 0 or smoke barrage. No survivability increase.

The new concrete buildings would be awesome if they replace the wooden constructions the **Fortifications Doctrine **has. They feel out of place with this faction. Also instead of the repair units it can install antenas to detect nearby units for a few seconds.

And lastly, a buff for mobile AT. Now the raketen is a unit a dislike very much, since now allies have so much options for Anti inf. Hopefully some day it would get some rework or swap. For now i think sturmpios can get a small buff for their AT performance. In small maps where they are required they are pretty hard to use(easy to hit and low AT dps). Now to fix that maybe add a second schreck after building the last tier or after having two buildings. Honestly i prefer if obers had this role but they come in too late. ( Wish they were in the battlegroup)

** Doctrine of special operations: **
According to this doctrine serves to enter with stealth and surprise inside enemy lines, for that reason I propose 2 changes:

The first radio silence, which is changed by the invisibility ability to the infantry.
-And the last one would be to eliminate artillery flare and put one of these three options: infantry assault, break supply line or self-targeting artillery.

Another thing that I want to contribute now that the buffs come from the USF and with it the increase of fuel from 15 to 20, is that they can increase the fuel of the OKW or reduce the costs of fuel technologies, especially in tanks or transformations of the trucks.

This is because the OKW is characterized to have specialized units, such as OKW we must anticipate what the enemy will do, it is not only create volks (as some think that this is won) and voila, the volks have several weaknesses and are accompanied with for example Sturmpioneer (Panzerschreck) or Raketenwerfer, or if to choose the SdKfz 251/17 with 7.5cm le.IG 18 and wait to go to tanks or go with Panzer II Ausf. L and then to tanks. They are difficult decisions that the OKW has to make and this difficulty makes it one of the most difficult factions to control, increase this to choose the correct doctrine and for example we use the doctrine of fortifications against a Briton, they would have the advantage.

As I read in a guide the USFs are ultra versatile, they can have something in the beginning but they can change it quickly, the volks do not, if they choose they have to continue with that strategy because switching to another would cost them a lot of resources, especially fuel, and if they break you Some of the 2 initial trucks could be said to have more than 70% of losing the game.

Elite Armor:
This is the only commander I really have a comment on, I am confused why the Jagdtiger wasn't given to this commander when it would literally perfectly fit this commander, instead it is given to the Breakthrough doctrine which ironically enough would fit better with the sturmtiger since the sturmtiger is pretty much the definition of a breakthrough tank meant for destroying blobs of infantry and leading a breakthrough assault. Where the jagdtiger is meant to be a soul tank hunter and isn't very useful against infantry. That is all I have to say.

Relic you gotta fix the overwatch commander, and thats pretty fast. The JLi is so stuped costeffective, once they get sniper they become even wors to deal with. Its allright to nerf soviet 2-men squad, with right to do so, but its gotta be on better terms for the allies than have 250MP 4-men squad being able to snipe safe from cover. Heck, those guys even spawn out of building without any punishment like commandas and partisan has to 2 men short and timer on granades.

Some more crazyness in this commander is the no-counter-to-flare ability in the same as the sector assault, give those plane in late game sight so they can track down stufs even if you move out of circle before they arrives.

Now this commander is mostly a problem in 1vs1 and 2vs2, but theres now way you can keep up with the costeffectiveness along with Volks thats another problem STILL on its own in term of effectiveness. Got to do something about this now