justsit wrote:Just my opinion here - "death panels" is a scare tactic. Could have come from any number of sources heavily invested in keeping the current health care cash cow fat and happy.

in UK, they had the DNR (Do Not Resuscitate) scandal, determined by local health "authority" NHS managers, on patients secret hidden medical files, and not by doctors, in USA also panels of hospital budget managers and board of bio ethics determine patients financial ability before care. so basically bureaucrats ruling on who lives who dies.

i would also like to thank you for your dedication and service for others wellfare.

Having worked in health care for over 20 years, I can report there are no "death panels" in hospitals.

justsit wrote:Thanks for your appreciation, Heruka. It is an honor and privilege to care for others.

I'm very curious about your comment that bureaucrats rule on who dies; that has not been my experience. On what evidence do you base your comment? Do you have any documentation?

that's a good question to ask, let me have a look around and get back to you. it might appear as statistics, recommendations, color of law( ie. codes etc), which if we look at it away from a compartmentalized narrow view, but take a holistic grander picture, it may actually be a in audits of efficiency of a "policy", rather than actual explicit wording in, statute, or law.

Conflicts Between DNR Orders and Advance DirectivesIn the event of a conflict between one of the three types of DNR orders and an advance directive which has become effective because a person is unable to communicate and is terminally ill or permanently unconscious, the instructions from the document (or person named as an Attorney-in-Fact) ranked higher in the following list shall prevail:

1.Living will of a person who is in a terminal condition or a permanent unconscious state.2.Durable Power of Attorney for Health Care, or an Attorney-in-Fact acting in accordance therewith, of a person who is in a terminal condition or a permanent unconscious state.3.DNR order.

The websites you cited provide much information concerning the problems inherent in making difficult choices at the end of life. A number seemed to be a basic summary of the use of routine DNR orders. I cannot find any data there documenting the existence of so-called "death panels."

As an aside, it is a very good idea to have any particular wishes you have regarding your end of life care written down and accessible. In the US this is known as a Living Will. Give a copy to your doctor and family or friends. It will help them make decisions for your care in the event you become unable to speak for yourself. Even if you are a young person, it may be important, in case of serious accident.

justsit wrote:The websites you cited provide much information concerning the problems inherent in making difficult choices at the end of life. A number seemed to be a basic summary of the use of routine DNR orders. I cannot find any data there documenting the existence of so-called "death panels."

Patient dies in hospital after 'do not resuscitate' form is mistakenly put in his files By Jo Macfarlane

The blunder emerged at an inquest into the incident at Derby Hospitals NHS Trust, where bosses revealed staff had been ‘routinely’ placing the forms alongside medical records before they had been correctly signed and witnessed by senior doctors.The errors go against the usual Trust policy on using the forms and mean the documents were inserted into files without the consent of patients. It has affected an unknown number of patients and it is not known how long the practice was going on.

im sorry to invoke the horrors of ww2, (2:50 mark on video) but it always starts in a blind spot, with deniability, and grows to extremes.

You have to ask, are you under war power acts, a police state, with unusual open ended anti terrorism "laws"? Does the government know better than you? Do they determine who is innocent and who is suspicious?

does protection of the motherland, fatherland, homeland state, trump your own rights?

If so, one must tred very carefully.

I predict an age of beauty, and a culture of love and caring to come, where awareness and compassion is the new renaissance.

Last edited by Heruka on Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:47 am, edited 3 times in total.

FRONT ROYAL, Virginia, July 7, 2009 (LifeSiteNews.com) - The Population Research Institute (PRI) is turning up the heat on the Obama administration for handing $50 million to the United Nations Population Fund (UNFPA) with news of yet another investigation confirming the UN group's complicity in China's coercive birth control policies.

In March and May of 2009, PRI carried out two separate investigations, covering 6 UNFPA "model counties." These are counties where the UNFPA claim that their efforts have "removed birth targets and quotas and introduced a quality-of-care approach" - a claim the investigators call "outrageous."

PRI investigator Colin Mason and President Steven Mosher say they found that not only do coercive measures remain in force, but the situation is in some ways worse than in previous years, when an original investigation prompted the Bush administration to halt the UNFPA's U.S. taxpayer funding.

"We put boots on the ground, and found that the UNFPA's claim that it 'played a catalytic role in introducing a voluntary reproductive health approach in China' was patently absurd," said Mason. "The policy is just as coercive in these areas as anywhere else."

"Women continue to be arrested for the crime of being pregnant," said Steven Mosher. "They continue to be forcibly aborted. Minorities continue to be targeted. The handicapped are forbidden children. These violations of human rights are occurring right under the UNFPA's nose. It is ludicrous to suggest that the UN population controllers do not know about them."

FRONT ROYAL, Virginia, July 7, 2009 (LifeSiteNews.com) - The Population Research Institute (PRI) is turning up the heat on the Obama administration for handing $50 million to the United Nations Population....

I must say that this thread really has me wondering if it is ok to use this board as a soapbox for politics, especially politics of the paranoid conspiracy theory variety.

hello catmoon, if you like you can view the website. it wont take long to view it, then i would recommend reading up on UN agenda 21 or its new name of millennium development goals. understand what sustainable development means, look past the fruity, fluffy wording, the HAL 9000 esq, softly coded words, and then tell of what political lean, right or left you think this belongs? or maybe it belongs in neither, but controls both? paranoid label is strong self defense, you can look away if you like?but it does not make it go away.

“Investments in reproductive health pay high dividends and advance productivity, economic growth and the rights of women,” said Ms. Obaid, stressing: “The health of women is not the focus of the health sector alone. The health of women depends on planning and investments across many sectors—in education, health, nutrition, gender equality, and infrastructure.”

Heruka wrote:heres a quote from the site, tell me what you think it means?

“Investments in reproductive health pay high dividends and advance productivity, economic growth and the rights of women,” said Ms. Obaid, stressing: “The health of women is not the focus of the health sector alone. The health of women depends on planning and investments across many sectors—in education, health, nutrition, gender equality, and infrastructure.”

Really, you are reading things into UNFPA's work that are not there.... This quote is e.g. linked to the fact that a woman in a developing country is up to 300 times more likely to die during child birth than a woman in a rich country. That still some 24000 children under the age of 5 die every day largely of preventable or treatable diseases such as diarrhea or malaria. That too many girls marry (often against their will) when they are still children. That not enough women in the developing world have access to contraception (and too many men still refuse using condoms). So enabling women to make more choices about their own lives, including how many children they want to have and when, is a good thing - and indeed goes beyond just health care...

The UN is working with whatever government is in power in a country - without buying into their politics at all. If one government is replaced by the next with opposite political stance the UN will work in the new circumstances... the goal is to make a difference for the population - poverty reduction, health care for all, education for all etc. pp. Governed through a joint UN and government agreement for a usually five-year period. There certainly are challenges but no need for conspiracy theories.

palchi(working for one of the UN organisations in a developing country.... so do know UNFPA and all the rest...)

ECE – Economic Commission for EuropeIBE – International Bureau of EducationICC – International Computing CentreILO – International Labour OrganizationITC – International Trade CentreITU – International Telecommunication UnionJIU – Joint Inspection UnitOCHA – Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian AffairsUNAIDS – Joint United Nations Programme on HIV/AIDSUNHCHR – Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human RightsUNHCR – Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for RefugeesUNCC – United Nations Compensation CommissionUNCTAD – United Nations Conference on Trade and DevelopmentUNIDIR – United Nations Institute for Disarmament ResearchUNITAR – United Nations Institute for Training and ResearchNGLS – United Nations Non-Governmental Liaison ServiceUNOPS – United Nations Office for Project ServicesUNOSDP – United Nations Office on Sport for Development and PeaceUNFPA – United Nations Population FundUNRWA – United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near-EastUNRISD – United Nations Research Institute for Social DevelopmentCEB – United Nations System Chief Executives Board for CoordinationUNV – United Nations Volunteers ProgrammeWHO – World Health OrganizationWIPO – World Intellectual Property OrganizationWMO – World Meteorological OrganizationPresence at Geneva:

IAEA – International Atomic Energy Agency (Headquarters are in Vienna)UNESCO – United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (Headquarters are in Paris)UNIDO – United Nations Industrial Development Organization (Headquarters are in Vienna)WFP – World Food Programme (headquarters are in Rome)

Last edited by Heruka on Wed Sep 22, 2010 4:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.