ISLAMABAD: The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) has acquired one squadron of F-16 multi-role fighter aircraft from Jordan and 13 F-16s will be inducted into the service next month.

With this, the strength of PAF F-16s will reach 76. The fighter aircraft have been purchased from Jordan and they were in the use of the Royal Jordanian Air Force (RJAF).

The deal has already been finalised and inked by both the countries. The 13 aircraft are of F-16 A/B Block-15 and the PAF has similar aircraft in its fleet which are flying satisfactorily. The deal about 12 A models and one B model aircraft has been authenticated by the manufacturing company and the US government has also given its nod for the sale/purchase of the planes.

Well-placed defence sources told The News here the other day that the purchased aircraft were in good condition since they had attained Mid-Life Update (MLU) and they would be providing service for another 20 years with almost 3,000 hours on average available to them for flying.

They have been modified into Air Defence Fighters (ADF) versions. The Ogden Air Logistics Centre performed structural upgrades to extend the aircraft life from the designed 4,000 to 8,000 hours flying time as part of the programme. They also modified the aircraft engine bay for the upgraded Pratt and Whitney F100-220E engine. The induction of the planes will give a boost in air power to the PAF that is rendering a remarkable service in the war against terror.

The Chief of the Air Staff (CAS), Air Chief Marshal Tahir Rafiq Butt, visited Jordan last year for pursuing the sale of the aircraft. He and officials concerned of the countries had hectic discussion about the sale/purchase and delivery deal.

The sources have declined to give the details of the amount involved in the deal but they have claimed that it has been transparent and it would be made public next month just before the delivery of the F-16s.

However, it is understood that the used planes are cost-effective and could provide service for a fairly longer period of time. Pakistan is also contemplating to acquire more used planes for the PAF from some other countries while the induction of JF-17 Thunder aircraft, co-production of Pakistan and China, e is also underway simultaneously, the sources said.

Still putting their faith in obsolete and sanction prone fighter jets. I don't understand the logic. FC-20 would be a much more logical choice at this moment considering the specifications and reliability of the supplier. At this rate, Pakistan will forever remain reliant on the US for military and economic aid. The deal has the blessing of Uncle Sam. What a joke, but this is what happens when a country is broke and can only turn to exploiters.

Still putting their faith in obsolete and sanction prone fighter jets. I don't understand the logic. FC-20 would be a much more logical choice at this moment considering the specifications and reliability of the supplier. At this rate, Pakistan will forever remain reliant on the US for military and economic aid. The deal has the blessing of Uncle Sam. What a joke, but this is what happens when a country is broke and can only turn to exploiters.

Logic is quite simple.....if you are broke you can only drive a corolla even though you desire a Mercedes, hope that makes sense.
I do understand your concerns regarding US sanctions but if we have plenty of these f16 then some can be cannibalised and used as spares.

I quite like deals like this. Chances are we got them on the cheap. We're already using them, and we're not AS prone to sanctions as we like to beleive. Pakistan built a resistance to sanctions and we're unlikely to "unalign" with the US any time soon. Also like Butterfly said, these frames can also provide parts.

Everyone, PAF included would like the J-10 I think, but the problem is the govt has held back funding for the airforce development since 2007.

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1 trainer and 12 MLUd jets, any idea what we paid for the total package?

It'll take us 2-3 more years to build that many JF-17s, this is a good purchase; we know those specific models like the back of our hand.

Hakim Bey: Don't just survive while waiting for someone's revolution to clear your head
Napoleon Bonaparte: The world suffers a lot, not because of the violence of bad people, but because of the silence of good people!

The RJAF plan to overhaul its fighter fleet began in 1997 and 1998 when they received a number of F16 aircraft. Before delivery the aircraft had structural and engine upgrades. Joint exercises between the RJAF and the USAF took place at the MSAB, Azraq the previous summer to train the RJAF pilots and a number of pilots and technicians went to the USA for further training. Further deliveries of the F16 were received in 2003. In January 2004 a contract was signed between Jordan and Lockheed Martin for the update of the 17 F16s. Twelve aircraft will be upgraded by Turkish Aerospace Industries and five in Jordan.

The RJAF are supporting the fledgling Iraqi Air Force with aircraft and training. In May 2004 Iraqi airmen graduated from helicopter flight training.

November 2004 saw a deal announced in which Jordan would receive up to 50 AIM-120C missiles and associated equipment.

Hakim Bey: Don't just survive while waiting for someone's revolution to clear your head
Napoleon Bonaparte: The world suffers a lot, not because of the violence of bad people, but because of the silence of good people!

It only makes sense to keep the F-16 machines flying which we already possess. To buy more F-16s means that PAF isn't much focused on acquiring a better Chinese alternative any time soon. Also, we're still spending a lot of money on getting these F-16s. For a cash strapped country like Pakistan every cent counts. It would have been much wiser to go for a Chinese 5th gen solution in the long term. I don't buy this stop gap argument anymore. The world is phasing out the F-16 platform. The stop gap argument doesn't add up anymore since better and cost effective platforms are available. If we don't make the effort to collaborate with the Chinese on an F-16 alternative it might come very late or perhaps never. The Chinese are too busy with their 5th gen projects and who can blame them. The onus is on Pakistan to cooperate with China and seek what it requires. Sanctions aren't a threat some say. The Yanks have a habit of handing out threats and using economic and military sanctions as a tool against Pakistan. The possibility of sanctions against Pakistan can never be ruled out I'm afraid. In defence, even the slightest of possibility of sanctions can never be taken lightly. PAF loves the F-16s, but time has come to move on. Remaining stuck with outdated technology whilst the adversaries are advancing towards newer platforms is suicidal. A mix of JF-17s along with FC-20s and a 5th gen platform should be the sole focus.

By the way, the Yanks are very much paranoid about Pakistan's nuclear weapons. Anyone doubting this should read some recent stories in US papers regarding their spying program against Pakistani nuclear weapons in neighboring Afghanistan. The Yanks are frustrated and I'm just putting it mildly.

Pardon my ignorance but can anyone tell if these would be bvr capable or not? Also did we upgrade our to be bvr capable or not?

W/salaam

In case I forgot here is it is... Asalaamualikum

"There is none worthy of worship but He, glorified be He: [Far is He] above that which they associate [with Him]" (Qur'an 9:31)

Not equal are the owners of the fire and the owners of the Garden. The owners of the Garden, they are the victorious. [Quran 59:20]

Allah knows best [who are] your enemies. Allah is sufficient as a Friend, and Allah is sufficient as a Helper. [4:45]

Fudayl ibn Iyaad said: "Verily, if an action was done sincerely for the sake of Allah but was not correct, it will not be accepted by Allah. And if the action was correct but not done sincerely it will not be accepted until the act is sincere and correct. For it to be sincere, it has to be done for the sake of Allah, and in order for it to be correct, it has to agree to the sunnah."

the Messenger of Allah pbuh says; “whoever does not care about the affairs of the Muslims is not one of them.”

The F-16s procured from Jordan (13/14 aircraft) would fall under the agreement of U.S refurbishing the 28 F-16 A/B Block-15s, which it had not delivered to Pakistan after the Pressler Ammendment. Although the deal is signed between Pakistana and Jordan, the money to pay for the deal is coming from the U.S, which owed Pakistan over $700 million. Part of the money, $80 million was paid in the form of wheat export to Pakistan. The remainder amount was withheld by Clinton Administration, due to pressure from the U.S Congress. Either way you look at it, this procurement was part of the 14 of 28 remaining aircraft, under Peace-Gate III/IV were to be refurbished by United States. Since the initial refurbished F-16s were delivered between 2004-2006, 14 aircraft. However since then, the remaining 14 weren't, possibly because Pakistan Air Force wanted aircraft with low air-frame time.

Either way, there is nothing wrong with this deal. It had always been invisaged by Pakistan Air Force to have a minimum fleet of 70 odd F-16s, all of whom would be upgraded, structurally and in terms of avionics as well, to the Block-52 standard. These 70 F-16s would compliment projected fleet of 250 JF-17 Thunders along with 150 FC-20s (AKA - J-10Bs). The long term planning was worked around the premise that the enemy would have a standing fleet of 250-300 Su-30 Flankers, 200 Rafales/Eurofighters, around 250 Jaguars & Fulcrums. This projection was based on what would the standing fleet of the enemy look like by 2020.

Edited by Dizasta, 20 February 2014 - 05:38 AM.

........ when the first drop of a Munafiq's blood drops in the Kaa'bah ........

........ the Black Flags Army shall rise from Khurasan and commence its earth rumbling march toward Damishque. Any force that tries to come in its path, shall be destroyed with ruthless destruction. Awaiting, upon reaching Damishque, the safron and beads of pearls and the Black Turban that shall lead the Salah of Fajr .........

........ the stones and trees of Lud shall cry out to the Black Flags and tell them of the Munafiqs, Yahuds and Kuffar that are hiding behind them, to come and kill them. That day shall be the day of reckoning, the day of justice, the day when no power shall hold and unfair advantage. The battle shall be fought and won by way of faith ........

F 16 is combat proven platform, the USAF itself wont be retiring this excellent a/c for many years to come. it is agile , reliable, the systems / radars are superb to say the least ( radar improvements are incremental overtime though )

lets face it, a mach 2 capable JF engine is still NOT on the table . J 10 procurement is facing delays. this acquisition wont hurt . PAF has always amazed me with how they make the most out of their limited resources

I wasn't aware of the details regarding the payment. This in a sense makes the acquisition somewhat more acceptable. Nonetheless, PAF needs a more vigorous collaboration with China regarding FC-20. The F-16s are sanction prone no matter what anyone says. We've seen how unreliable the relationship between the US and Pakistan can be. PAF cannot rely on a supplier which doesn't supply spares when needed most.

Whilst Chinese are facing some difficulties in certain areas they're certainly improving in others by leaps and bounds. China has the ability to provide what PAF requires.

If you see them purely as a defense strategic aircraft, no one is going to get by this goal keeper. Knowing your defences are air tight makes the tasks of offense easier.

Hakim Bey: Don't just survive while waiting for someone's revolution to clear your head
Napoleon Bonaparte: The world suffers a lot, not because of the violence of bad people, but because of the silence of good people!

F-16's are the best interceptors, proven platform.
If you see them purely as a defense strategic aircraft, no one is going to get by this goal keeper. Knowing your defences are air tight makes the tasks of offense easier.

Providing the PAF decides to intercept and not allow enemies like the USA to do as they please.

Hakim Bey: Don't just survive while waiting for someone's revolution to clear your head
Napoleon Bonaparte: The world suffers a lot, not because of the violence of bad people, but because of the silence of good people!

Realistically yes. They dare not challenge them, unless they directly challenged the existence of thier cash cow, Pakistan. The only reason there is another standard for the Indians is because the leadership class expect the Indians might well indeed challenge thier existence.

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-=-=-=-=Faith, Unity, Discipline-=-=-=-=

Kashmir is the jugular Vein of Pakistan and no nationor country would tolerate its jugular vein remainsunder the sword of the enemy. -Muhammed Ali Jinnah

-=-=-=-=FREE KASHMIR-=-=-=-=

These eye's do not wander in lust, for myqueen of hearts has graced them with love.

I am curious. A war with India could escalate into a nuclear one. They too are militarily superior to us jyst as the Americans. Maybe the Americans could do it faster but at the end we would have to take out the nukes.

The Indian nukes will use the same physics and kill our people all the same.

So why should we be emotional in case of the Indians even?

W/salaam

In case I forgot here is it is... Asalaamualikum

"There is none worthy of worship but He, glorified be He: [Far is He] above that which they associate [with Him]" (Qur'an 9:31)

Not equal are the owners of the fire and the owners of the Garden. The owners of the Garden, they are the victorious. [Quran 59:20]

Allah knows best [who are] your enemies. Allah is sufficient as a Friend, and Allah is sufficient as a Helper. [4:45]

Fudayl ibn Iyaad said: "Verily, if an action was done sincerely for the sake of Allah but was not correct, it will not be accepted by Allah. And if the action was correct but not done sincerely it will not be accepted until the act is sincere and correct. For it to be sincere, it has to be done for the sake of Allah, and in order for it to be correct, it has to agree to the sunnah."

the Messenger of Allah pbuh says; “whoever does not care about the affairs of the Muslims is not one of them.”

Realistically yes. They dare not challenge them, unless they directly challenged the existence of thier cash cow, Pakistan. The only reason there is another standard for the Indians is because the leadership class expect the Indians might well indeed challenge thier existence.

The Americans have successfully overrun a country multiple times in the past half century alone. The Indians have not been as aggressive or successful.

Realistically, Americans are likely to threaten our sovereignty (and have been doing so) far more than the Indians.

And if we applied the same definition of 'sovereignty' to the Indians or anyone, noone would have a reason to threaten our sovereignty in the first place.

W/salaam

In case I forgot here is it is... Asalaamualikum

"There is none worthy of worship but He, glorified be He: [Far is He] above that which they associate [with Him]" (Qur'an 9:31)

Not equal are the owners of the fire and the owners of the Garden. The owners of the Garden, they are the victorious. [Quran 59:20]

Allah knows best [who are] your enemies. Allah is sufficient as a Friend, and Allah is sufficient as a Helper. [4:45]

Fudayl ibn Iyaad said: "Verily, if an action was done sincerely for the sake of Allah but was not correct, it will not be accepted by Allah. And if the action was correct but not done sincerely it will not be accepted until the act is sincere and correct. For it to be sincere, it has to be done for the sake of Allah, and in order for it to be correct, it has to agree to the sunnah."

the Messenger of Allah pbuh says; “whoever does not care about the affairs of the Muslims is not one of them.”

Interests:I am an engineer by profession. My interests include astronomy, aviation, world development and music.

Location:Canada

Posted 21 February 2014 - 04:38 AM

The US over the years of the cold war invested a ton of money into subterfuge and control by proxy.

You can see the results for yourselves in Pakistan.

Why fight yet another bloody expensive war when you stand to gain much more by controlling its leaders.

Only "weak" countries that are made into scapegoats because they say an outright no to the US get the full stick...ala Afghanistan and Iraq.

When a little carrot can work, backed up by just enough stick.....you get a nice market for your military and someone to offload your debt by making them take loans from you and you build up a three-pronged collateral: Economically, Militarily and Socially.

Its neo-colonialism 101...and Pakistan has been suckered in by both the US and China. China is no panacea either BTW, they are following what the US has been doing and still is doing. All big powers do the same...only way out is for Pakistan to take a firm stance and say no and exercise full sovereignty. But this needs better education, internal transparency and accountability and a desire for full sovereignty. But as long as politicians earn more from the status quo, there is little chance of that happening.

The Americans have successfully overrun a country multiple times in the past half century alone. The Indians have not been as aggressive or successful.

Realistically, Americans are likely to threaten our sovereignty (and have been doing so) far more than the Indians.

And if we applied the same definition of 'sovereignty' to the Indians or anyone, noone would have a reason to threaten our sovereignty in the first place.

W/salaam

You're right on the money, but remember that some Pakistanis have been fed with US military and economic aid. Some Pakistanis cannot accept the fact that the US can be considered a threat to their national security. They're too afraid of losing US economic and military support. After all, these people run their affairs on handouts. The bitter reaility is that the US is a direct threat to Pakistan's national security and this is no secret anymore. From the Salala attack to drone strikes. The writing is on the wall. It's a difficult concept for some Pakistanis to accept this new reality. The US and the Taliban are both a threat to the national security.

You're right on the money, but remember that some Pakistanis have been fed with US military and economic aid. Some Pakistanis cannot accept the fact that the US can be considered a threat to their national security. They're too afraid of losing US economic and military support. After all, these people run their affairs on handouts. The bitter reaility is that the US is a direct threat to Pakistan's national security and this is no secret anymore. From the Salala attack to drone strikes. The writing is on the wall. It's a difficult concept for some Pakistanis to accept this new reality. The US and the Taliban are both a threat to the national security.

I totally agree with this and don't understand why the nation is not realizing the fact that USA is a cancer to us in all respect ( religiously, socially, economically, etc).

F 16 is combat proven platform, the USAF itself wont be retiring this excellent a/c for many years to come. it is agile , reliable, the systems / radars are superb to say the least ( radar improvements are incremental overtime though )

lets face it, a mach 2 capable JF engine is still NOT on the table . J 10 procurement is facing delays. this acquisition wont hurt . PAF has always amazed me with how they make the most out of their limited resources

In terms of civil jetengines, whenever i see an airplane fly cæose i listen how the engines are cutting, compressing and spitting out the airflow through the stator blades and dynamic blades. Thats what makes the sound.
Its sweet music in my ears. I love it. ;-) ...ahhh how i miss sitting in the B737 GE engine, and having the honour of repairing...its nostalgic... (Sorry if it sounds sentimental, romantic and depressing -lol)

Anyways.. Its going to take time for China to come up with a competetive, cheaper and powered counterpart.
Its a long ongoing developing programme with huge amount of R&D, investments, time and aftersales.
One tiny problem can ruin the reputation of the jetengine manufacturer, and a hinder for airforces to apply the jetengine on their platforms.

United States of America poses a direct threat to not only Pakistan, but to the rest of the whole damn world.

Except Israel and to some extent the UK, they are a threat to everyone(Germany, France etc.), Pakistan is not a special case.

You want direct confrontation with the US? Ap mein sur uthanay ki himmat nahi hai unkay samnay to be frank, this is how we roll.....the yankees gauged our very nature and the dynamics of our society gradually ever since the moment they invited LIaquat Ali Khan, once they reached the bottom of our reality, our culture and our very nature; they deemed us not to be respected.

The only difference between Pakistan and the rest of the other countries is that they know how to conduct ad carry themselves, it is not about the machinery...it is all about how you carry yourself on the global stage.

Those people are fools who believe that the yanks are after Pakistan specifically because it came into being on 27th of Ramadan.....idiots.

When a country starts killing and violating the sovereignty of another nation systematically it becomes an entirely different matter. The threat level that the US poses to the rest and Pakistan specifically are incomparable.

Confronting the US? Not at all. I'm not suggesting that we go to war. We've to keep our own house in order which is very messy indeed. On the other hand, we shouldn't become a stooge of a superpower and accept every wrongdoing on their part. Yes, we're blindly accepting every wrongdoing. Our leaders are foul and lack character.

You ought to read my other posts on PDF regarding our foul character. I'll be the first person to admit and highlight our shortcomings. Yes, the Yanks are onto us. They have indeed deciphered our foul nature and are exploiting it to the maximum. However, that doesn't make it right.

You really want to know why the Yanks are after Pakistan? It's very simple. You possess something which the Yanks don't approve and you proclaim to be Muslim. They write and discuss about it every single day. Their paranoia is clear as crystal. You're just not willing to accept it. The writing is on the wall. Otherwise, you're quite right. The Yanks wouldn't care one bit. Although they do care and that too with an obsession.

Aoa
I am curious. A war with India could escalate into a nuclear one. They too are militarily superior to us jyst as the Americans. Maybe the Americans could do it faster but at the end we would have to take out the nukes.
The Indian nukes will use the same physics and kill our people all the same.
So why should we be emotional in case of the Indians even?
W/salaam

lol...

my freind sharjeel posted this on his wall:

"by logic of those, who said musharraf sahabs "we are no longer india centric" meant that we are now afghanistan centric and see our enemy as other muslim countries.

I think the limitations of artificial intelligence will make such weapons somewhat rarer than you think. Firstly there lies the moral issue of machines making decisions in combat scenarios, secondly the AI to do so is available machines beat men at chess ages ago its only got better since. However the quality of bureaucratic project managers at the DoD have not changed.

i think though you will soon see more remotely controlled ucavs.

Follow PDF on twitter @Official_PDF

-=-=-=-=Faith, Unity, Discipline-=-=-=-=

Kashmir is the jugular Vein of Pakistan and no nationor country would tolerate its jugular vein remainsunder the sword of the enemy. -Muhammed Ali Jinnah

-=-=-=-=FREE KASHMIR-=-=-=-=

These eye's do not wander in lust, for myqueen of hearts has graced them with love.

Unmanned (remote controlled) is probably a big thing in the near future however, in the distant future we could see mostly automatic platforms.

Btw 'Colossus: a forbin project' is a good movie about dangers of complete automation.

But who knows..

W/salaam

In case I forgot here is it is... Asalaamualikum

"There is none worthy of worship but He, glorified be He: [Far is He] above that which they associate [with Him]" (Qur'an 9:31)

Not equal are the owners of the fire and the owners of the Garden. The owners of the Garden, they are the victorious. [Quran 59:20]

Allah knows best [who are] your enemies. Allah is sufficient as a Friend, and Allah is sufficient as a Helper. [4:45]

Fudayl ibn Iyaad said: "Verily, if an action was done sincerely for the sake of Allah but was not correct, it will not be accepted by Allah. And if the action was correct but not done sincerely it will not be accepted until the act is sincere and correct. For it to be sincere, it has to be done for the sake of Allah, and in order for it to be correct, it has to agree to the sunnah."

the Messenger of Allah pbuh says; “whoever does not care about the affairs of the Muslims is not one of them.”

There is another highly recommended series of documentary on the dangers of AI taking over our defence and it's probable implications....I think it's called the Terminator.

In my opinion right now the UAV's will be deployed via remote control.....the whole AI thing is a bit too far fetched for at least the next 50+ years. And even then we'll first see AI in probably only unarmed patrol mode or something...later then I suppose when we will all be long gone and perhaps the AI really does become AI, things might change then.

Our F-16's will be long retired before the US strikes us, one or two in the PAF museum the rest improvised like Iran's; add a tail and shove two WS-13 engines, call it the JF-27. Indian threat will stay a reality until the F-16's are retired.

Hakim Bey: Don't just survive while waiting for someone's revolution to clear your head
Napoleon Bonaparte: The world suffers a lot, not because of the violence of bad people, but because of the silence of good people!

There is another highly recommended series of documentary on the dangers of AI taking over our defence and it's probable implications....I think it's called the Terminator.

In my opinion right now the UAV's will be deployed via remote control.....the whole AI thing is a bit too far fetched for at least the next 50+ years. And even then we'll first see AI in probably only unarmed patrol mode or something...later then I suppose when we will all be long gone and perhaps the AI really does become AI, things might change then.

I think the limitations of artificial intelligence will make such weapons somewhat rarer than you think. Firstly there lies the moral issue of machines making decisions in combat scenarios, secondly the AI to do so is available machines beat men at chess ages ago its only got better since. However the quality of bureaucratic project managers at the DoD have not changed.