After Hours

General discussion

What gun possession implies

With gun weapons, one can protect or kill. Not too soon after Colorado shooting, Americans are tolling themselves again with the Connecticut shootout.

The U.S. is a country respecting freedom. While the police and soldiers have guns, so do the general public. With freedom in American minds, privacy is also secured by Law, hence one can kill an intruder to one's premises. The reasons behind this practice are: Americans are above-par wealthy and they need some extra security against crime (also reflected in their possession of most nuclear missiles in the world); Americans are relatively selfish and self-protecting (people are putting security of oneself above public safety by advocating gun possession, plus developing nuclear weaponry whilst disallowing poorer countries to follow suit); Americans think they are so morally superior that most people can restrain themselves from gun abuse.

In fact, if some would like to prevent crime with guns, they should first think about how easily guns can cause crime. For the first time in history, after many gun-related crimes, people from the rest of the world should become hesitating when considering emigration or traveling to the U.S. and other gun-approving countries. As Chinese ourselves, we applaud for our own better-off personal safety without undiscriminated gun possession. When guns are publicized for eliminating their inner lack of security, Americans are haunted with even greater homicidal fears.

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But are guns really the problem

Without trying to sound pro or anti gun. Canadians have a lot of guns at home, from pistols to rifles. My family had 8 guns including old military guns. When I was young my father showed me how to shoot guns. What is really different between us as the USA? I do know our guns have to be locked in a secure storage container, I do not know US laws on gun storage.

Can it be pure population density? Does the fact that the US has more people clustered together mean that statistically the likelihood of a school shooting is greater? But isn't China and Japan even more densely populated? So what are their school shooting statistics?

It can't be just that Americans think they have a right to guns is it? How is having the right to have guns different than being allowed to have guns?

My theory... The typical urban environments lend themselves to less gun safety talks with children. This theory could be tested by checking the gun violence rates in less urbanized states.

Gun crime statistics to ponder

No point in tinkering with "urban" and "rural". The US has 3.2 firearms homicides per 100,000 population compared with 0.1 for England and Wales, according to a 2012 report by the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime. Total homicides for the USA are 4.3 per 100,000 with 1.2 per 100,000 for the UK.

We just don't have guns.

Japan has 0.3 homicides per 100,000 population of which a handful were gun crime. They don't have much murder or guns.

However, with less than 5% of the world's population, the United States is home to roughly 40 per cent of the world's civilian-owned guns so it's just not possible to get any meaningful comparison.

Therefore what?

But I will say this (ask this). You stated that in the US, "..... there are 3.2 firearm homicides per 100,000...."

Those danged statistics. A smart guy can make them say just about anything.

Remove a few isolated spots from the USA, and what are the numbers? Take out of the equation New York City (with the Democrat mayor in sheep's clothing, Michael Bloomberg - Mr. Gun Control in a city where such firearms are already illegal); or Detroit, a city with another Democrat mayor, Democrats on the city council, where social programs and unemployment are norm; or Chicago, the murder capitol of the world, the home of out Democrat president, Barack Hussein Obama, and all his Democrat Chicago cronies; and, of course, let's not even mention race in the homicide statistics.

Or I wonder how many homicide perps are receiving Food Stamps? Or I wonder how many homicide perps are gang bangers battling over turf? Or I wonder how many homicide perps are ........

It's your country, you do the math

You have this habit of posting questions - "I wonder how many homicide perps are receiving Food Stamps". You answer it, you asked it.

I posted a single flat statistic which suggests that there is, per capita, thirty times more homicide by guns in the US when compared to the UK where the posession of a handgun is illegal.. If you want to post "therefore what?", feel free but to do it in the way that you do here is just lazy. Remove a few isolated spots from the UK statistics and we can all get different numbers.

People in the USA don't care what the root cause(s) is (are)

I have my theories on the cause(s) of not only these mass killings, but other forms of violence and social breakdown, and none of them has anything at all to do with the existence of, or the availability of guns.

But it's obvious that the anti-gun lobby and the anti-gun sentiment in the USA will actually PREVENT any effort to address the REAL root cause(s). It's easy to blame guns for jumping up and killing people; that way, people don't have to acknowledge the REAL issues.

I'd bet everything I own (which isn't a **** of a lot at this point) that in not a single one of these "mass killing" cases, or in cases of kids killing kids, the perpetrator had a father who was involved and engaged in his life; or the perpetrator came from a family that provided unconditional love and acceptance; or that the perpetrator was actually GIVEN a gun by his father and taught how to use and respect it; or .........

But yeah, let's blame the guns. It's too painful to look at the REAL reasons.

i don`t blame guns

guns are just the tool...guns don`t kill people, people kill people. Whether it be with a gun, a knife, whatever the tool may be, that is the fact. Unfortunately, guns are a tool for a faster mass violence. And it doesn`t seem to matter what the demographic is either. I hear too many stories where someone took their parents` gun out of an unlocked closet and either accidentally or intentionally shot someone or mulitple people. As Slayer_ said, we`re under pretty tough laws to keep our guns locked up here in Canada. I was raised to understand that a gun was for nothing more than hunting or in drastic measures to protect ones home and family.

Is it any wonder today`s society doesn`t know right from wrong...we`ve been told we`re not allowed to disipline our children anymore in fear we may hurt their self esteem. I tell ya, my uncle didn`t hurt my self esteem, but he wacked my butt when I didn`t do what I was told; my self esteem is fine and I sure as heck appreciate, love, and respect that man with all my heart. If I didn`t get my own way or a toy that I wanted, I darned well learned to live with (and love) what I did have. So today`s kids need to suck it up, we all don`t get what we want but if you don`t like what you have, I`m sure it can be given to some poor kid somewhere that will adore it. And if you don`t do what you`re told, there`s an app for that, it`s called grounded...no TV, no cell phone, no computer, no gaming system....read a book, better yet (and I`m not a religious girl at all but I do believe in morals) read the Bible; it`s full of lessons and morals that we all should re-learn to live by.

Guns don't kill people, people with guns kill people

Obviously guns need a crazy person to pull the trigger to do their damage....so either we need fewer crazy people, fewer guns, or better ways to prevent the two elements from reacting.

Part of this debate is around how we treat (or do not treat) mental illness, perhaps even a discussion about violent video games, but most importantly, how to have a grown up discussion about how lethal weapons are bought, sold, used, and abused.

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