with the profit margin they could easily make the home button a tad better, avoid things like this...but im sure they ran the numbers.

Profit or "bad press 92% of our customers wont see and if they do they wont care much"

You're implying that they knew in advance that the button was going to fail prematurely but decided to use it anyway. An equally plausible scenario, particularly given Apple's general tendency towards quality, is that they sourced a button believing it would be up to the task but were incorrect. Or that the button is up to the task, but a flawed manufacturing run is causing problems.

Device design always involves compromise and there are always manufacturing pitfalls. No need to search for hidden agendas.

The power button on my 5 started to become unreliable after 1 or 2 months. I made an appointment at the nearest Apple Store, and took it in. They replaced the device outright, no questions or fuss. Total time, maybe 5 minutes. That's the kind of positive customer service experience that breeds loyalty.

The power button on my 5 started to become unreliable after 1 or 2 months. I made an appointment at the nearest Apple Store, and took it in. They replaced the device outright, no questions or fuss. Total time, maybe 5 minutes. That's the kind of positive customer service experience that breeds loyalty.

You were under warranty. When I went to do it about two weeks after my one-year warranty ended, they told me the price tag was $229. I was about to use ifixit.com and spend 50 bucks to do it myself but this will save me the bother.

It is obvious that this is a manufacturing defect, but I am genuinely curious what do you people do with your phones? I have iPhone 5 and I rarely press that button because the phone is set to auto-lock after a short time and I usually wake it with the home button. Furthermore, I can't even remember when was the last time I had to power it off (or on for that matter). Maybe a certain usage pattern triggers the failure?

If I am going to a company meeting, kill the phone before I go in. If I go out to a movie, kill the phone after the previews, but before the movie starts. Put the phone in my pocket, hit the off button to keep it from doing random stuff....

Most (not all)people with a 5 will probably be upgrading soon to one or the other version of the 6. If it had been the 5S, that might have more takers.

Huh? How many people do you think are amped up to have the latest and greatest at all times? My 5 is about 16 months old and I can't imagine upgrading just because a new version may be coming out soon. It serves me well and it's not noticeably slow or otherwise hindered in any way. Thus, I can't believe I'm in the minority when I say, Maverick style, I won't be upgrading until I'm god damn good and ready.

Most 5 owners are about to go off contract. That is the highest probability time for a person to upgrade and give their old phone to a family member or friend.

with the profit margin they could easily make the home button a tad better, avoid things like this...but im sure they ran the numbers.

Profit or "bad press 92% of our customers wont see and if they do they wont care much"

You're implying that they knew in advance that the button was going to fail prematurely but decided to use it anyway. An equally plausible scenario, particularly given Apple's general tendency towards quality, is that they sourced a button believing it would be up to the task but were incorrect. Or that the button is up to the task, but a flawed manufacturing run is causing problems.

Device design always involves compromise and there are always manufacturing pitfalls. No need to search for hidden agendas.

Trust me, in electronics, you know when you are buying crappy components. It takes a lot of foo to make a good switch. It has to do with how the contacts "wipe", plus environmental protection, as well as material science. Amongst the components in a phone, switches are easy to test for lifetime, compared to chips and especially batteries. (Battery cycling takes a long time. You can test a switch at a few Hz.) The switch designs are old, so lifetime data from test hardware already exists.

There is zero uncertainly in the switch reliability. Somebody is saving cost.

with the profit margin they could easily make the home button a tad better, avoid things like this...but im sure they ran the numbers.

Profit or "bad press 92% of our customers wont see and if they do they wont care much"

You're implying that they knew in advance that the button was going to fail prematurely but decided to use it anyway. An equally plausible scenario, particularly given Apple's general tendency towards quality, is that they sourced a button believing it would be up to the task but were incorrect. Or that the button is up to the task, but a flawed manufacturing run is causing problems.

Device design always involves compromise and there are always manufacturing pitfalls. No need to search for hidden agendas.

Apple quality is a myth. The reality is Apple customer service is superb.

As I stated in my other post, switch quality is easy to predict.

In the dark ages (maybe up to the late 1980s), there was a job title of "component engineer." These were real engineers ( as in having at least a BS) that were responsible for component selection. They also ran an incoming inspection program, i.e. duplicate testing. The JIT (just in time) came along. The idea was to limit the inventory, so you certainly don't want to have a pile of parts waiting for incoming inspection. So then incoming inspection was replaced by inspecting the factory and making a determination if the factory testing was good. That lead to the ISO9000 and up nonsense. In the process, the component engineer disappeared and some bean counter worked on component procurement.

All this said, the company, if they really care about quality, can find a good switch supplier and never change from a proven product. Some companies have the attitude that if it works, you don't mess with perfection to save a few pennies.

My iPhone 5 had this issue and I got it fixed on Mar 29 at a low cost local shop for $75. AppleCare would have charged over $200, and since the phone was out of warranty, I did the logical thing.

I just called Apple about the warranty issue, and after ~ 1 hour on the phone and 2 Senior Service Advisors, they won't refund me my repair. Seems they can't refund non-authorized repair costs, even though, as I pointed out, I saved them money getting it fixed.

I hadn't expected a warranty extension like they have, but it seems unfair and illogical not to cover people who acted rationally.

It's not the end of the world for me, but I expected Apple would act more consumer-friendly - a bit of the sheen has gone off. Has anyone else had a similar experience (or solution !) ?

Does anyone else notice the forced upgrade to iOS 7? It's frustrating to me that Apple would presume to make their repair of a defect conditional upon upgrading to a new OS.

I use quite a few Apple products, and am generally happy with them. But I really lost my trust in their iOS upgrades after I upgraded my iPad 1 to iOS 5. It became sluggish and frustrating to use. Apple doesn't allow you to downgrade (which really pisses me off. Why can't I downgrade MY device to the OS it was shipped with?).

I have a 4S, and on the whole, I love it. But I absolutely do not plan to upgrade it to iOS 7. Not because I think iOS 7 is bad (I love it on my iPad Air), but because there is no way in heck that I'm going to take the chance that it will slow my phone down. Indeed, there's quite the thread on Apple's support boards complaining of exactly this.

Nice, but I have 2 IPhone 4S with iffy buttons and they're both out of warranty and not covered by this program.

I wonder why 4S are excluded as the hardware component and the failure mechanics are probably the same. I guess it's time to call the consumer union and see if one can argue that such a recall implies eligibility for older devices with the same failure.

Thankfully, you can actually use the phone without a power button. You can turn on the "AssistiveTouch" accessibility feature that gives you all of your hardware buttons as an onscreen menu. And if your phone ever turns off, just plug it in and it will turn back on. The only thing you really can't do is perform a hard reset if it locks up.

With Assistive Touch, that I use, you still need a working power button.

with the profit margin they could easily make the home button a tad better, avoid things like this...but im sure they ran the numbers.

Profit or "bad press 92% of our customers wont see and if they do they wont care much"

You're implying that they knew in advance that the button was going to fail prematurely but decided to use it anyway. An equally plausible scenario, particularly given Apple's general tendency towards quality, is that they sourced a button believing it would be up to the task but were incorrect. Or that the button is up to the task, but a flawed manufacturing run is causing problems.

Device design always involves compromise and there are always manufacturing pitfalls. No need to search for hidden agendas.

This is the same reason why motherboards died of capacitor plague in the mid-to-late 2000's. A wave of shoddy korean-made capacitors was bought by unsuspecting mobo manufacturers, leading to a wave of leaking capacitors that crippled and eventually killed the boards they were attached to. No malice involved from the computer makers here, except possibly the original capacitor makers who had obtained their capacitor electrolyte solution through industrial espionage and snagged what happened to be a flawed work-in-progress formula.

Thankfully, you can actually use the phone without a power button. You can turn on the "AssistiveTouch" accessibility feature that gives you all of your hardware buttons as an onscreen menu. And if your phone ever turns off, just plug it in and it will turn back on. The only thing you really can't do is perform a hard reset if it locks up.

With Assistive Touch, that I use, you still need a working power button.

Technically you don't. If you want to turn your phone on you can plug it in. If you want to turn it off completely, Assistive Touch or a severe case of battery drain will do the job.

with the profit margin they could easily make the home button a tad better, avoid things like this...but im sure they ran the numbers.

Profit or "bad press 92% of our customers wont see and if they do they wont care much"

You're implying that they knew in advance that the button was going to fail prematurely but decided to use it anyway. An equally plausible scenario, particularly given Apple's general tendency towards quality, is that they sourced a button believing it would be up to the task but were incorrect. Or that the button is up to the task, but a flawed manufacturing run is causing problems.

Device design always involves compromise and there are always manufacturing pitfalls. No need to search for hidden agendas.

This is the same reason why motherboards died of capacitor plague in the mid-to-late 2000's. A wave of shoddy korean-made capacitors was bought by unsuspecting mobo manufacturers, leading to a wave of leaking capacitors that crippled and eventually killed the boards they were attached to. No malice involved from the computer makers here, except possibly the original capacitor makers who had obtained their capacitor electrolyte solution through industrial espionage and snagged what happened to be a flawed work-in-progress formula.

When I talked to the Apple Store guy about this he told me this button issue only really affects the first run of phones. I think it's probably a malfunction caused by an excessive amount of carelessness that took place because Apple was trying to ship as many of these as possible before the holiday season.

Does anyone else notice the forced upgrade to iOS 7? It's frustrating to me that Apple would presume to make their repair of a defect conditional upon upgrading to a new OS.

I use quite a few Apple products, and am generally happy with them. But I really lost my trust in their iOS upgrades after I upgraded my iPad 1 to iOS 5. It became sluggish and frustrating to use. Apple doesn't allow you to downgrade (which really pisses me off. Why can't I downgrade MY device to the OS it was shipped with?).

I have a 4S, and on the whole, I love it. But I absolutely do not plan to upgrade it to iOS 7. Not because I think iOS 7 is bad (I love it on my iPad Air), but because there is no way in heck that I'm going to take the chance that it will slow my phone down. Indeed, there's quite the thread on Apple's support boards complaining of exactly this.

So, yeah - that's my rant about Apple forcing people to upgrade.

Anyone with an iPhone 5 is going to want to be on iOS7. This program isn't for iPhones 4 or 4S so I don't understand why you're upset.

I had this problem with my original iPhone and had it replaced under under the original warranty since I had owned it for under 1 year. Unfortunately, the replacement croaked a month ago (it wouldn't respond to touch) and since I was out of the Apple 1-year warranty, I needed to pay for the replacement.

However, I had bought the original with a Visa Signature card and Visa send me a check for the full replacement cost 2 weeks after I filed the paperwork with them.

Man I feel sorry for you guys. In my country all consumer electronics have a 5 year "warranty" (it's not called that), which means that if something breaks, and they can't prove that it's your fault, they have to fix it within reasonable time or give you a new just as good or better device. And they must give you a loan unit. Any manufacturer's warranty is useless unless it gives additional rights not covered by the 5 year one.

The reason we have this law is simply that we think expensive stuff should be built to last. There's enough waste already, and we don't want to stimulate planned obsolescence. Apple products usually last, so kudos to them for that.

Wow, 5 years? I must know what country this is! Here in the Netherlands its 2 years for phones. At least it's longer for stuff like washing machines, though.

Took my 5 to the store to have this checked a month orso after my warranty lapsed, only solution they had was a new handset at £269... definitely wasnt paying that. Have been using assistive touch for a while and I actually was pretty seriously considering a switch if the phone ever failed further. My iphone 4 had a rubbish home button after less than a year of use, my 5 home button still seems to double click but its started turning at random.

Makes the Ive video of their manufacturing 'art' complete bullshit when they cant make buttons last...

Oh well looks like they have breached their formula for PR nightmare so back to the store tomorrow...

You are the first person in this thread to use the correct term for the button! You have assuaged my anal-retentiveness, thank you. (Although to cover all bases, Apple have referred to it as the On/Off button in certain literature.)

You are the first person in this thread to use the correct term for the button! You have assuaged my anal-retentiveness, thank you. (Although to cover all bases, Apple have referred to it as the On/Off button in certain literature.)

Called them, read them their own rules, but they refused to repair it (but they offered me to buy a refurbished phone at the price of a competitor's new phone in the same class).This happened to me even earlier, with a couple unresolved issues with my Macs. I continue using Macs, because there is no real alternative for my work, and their mini line is great. And I still greatly prefer iPads to the other tablets.But quality is a pain, and I could not find their service so great. In the past they had great repair shops, but now they are not able to repair anything, having outsourced everything. This may be different where you live, but probably I don't live in the right place.

You need to be a pain in the ass in the store. A friend had a ipod that needed a firmware upward. They wanted $10 for the upgrade, but going in the store got it done for free.

Look at it this way. Every apple product is at least 50% to 100% marked up over equivalent and often superior hardware. If you buy Apple, you deserve a few freebies. You already paid for them.

On the phone, nobody sees you. In the store, you are a problem.

And all you are is the biggest asshole in the store. Treat them with respect, and you get far better service. Yell and scream like a big baby, and you are nothing but a total prick and they could care less. You don't deserve shit.

Gah, stupid razrafrazzin. Just last month I was taking mine into the Apple store to get it replaced because the button had finally gotten too picky (taking 3-5 tries to get it to work) when I dropped it on a corner of concrete and shattered the front screen. Since I hadn't reported the problem before they couldn't give me a free fix (under Applecare+) so I had to pay $50 for a replacement. Crap.

All this said, the company, if they really care about quality, can find a good switch supplier and never change from a proven product. Some companies have the attitude that if it works, you don't mess with perfection to save a few pennies.

They changed the phone specs. the phone got thinner and button may not have fit anymore.

Or maybe it wasn't the switch but the quality of the connection made in assembling it. or maybe the machine/person inserting the switch used a bit too much force.

Until Apple releases a detailed engineering report on the problem (which they won't), speculating where they screwed up at is pretty dumb.

with the profit margin they could easily make the home button a tad better, avoid things like this...but im sure they ran the numbers.

Profit or "bad press 92% of our customers wont see and if they do they wont care much"

iSuppli's numbers are made up and unreliable. Apple's gross margin across the board is around 38%, most likely higher on cases and iTunes, right in the market on the iPhone (since it's their biggest source of revenue)

Still plenty of profit for better switches, if the switches were the problem. It's just speculation that it was the switch at fault. The problem could also arise from connection issues or assembly problems or a host of other things.

It is obvious that this is a manufacturing defect, but I am genuinely curious what do you people do with your phones? I have iPhone 5 and I rarely press that button because the phone is set to auto-lock after a short time and I usually wake it with the home button. Furthermore, I can't even remember when was the last time I had to power it off (or on for that matter). Maybe a certain usage pattern triggers the failure?

I use it to send calls to voice mail, I can hit that button without looking (and when i had the problem the audio feedback told me when i was successful). Also after using and shoving in my pocket i would hit it to keep from activating things.

For me the button went bad very quickly, in just the weekend I got it I noticed a problem. Initially it was just press on the left side of the button. Then a month or so ago it was i had to push on the very corner of the button and 3-5 tries it would work. I broke the screen right after this happened so I exchanged under AppleCare+ for $50.

I experienced this issue a while back and went to the Apple Store to see if they would do anything about it, the response then was that it was out of warranty and I didn't have Apple Care therefore my only options were to purchase a refurb or a new phone, bad form!

Effectively they were telling me that a $600+ phone is not expected to work for at least 2 years (the normal contract length) without developing a hardware fault. Apple tout their products has high design with high quality hardware standards and they (rightly) charge a high price for this, then when the thing breaks they want you to pay for the repair. Remember that last quarter Apple sold 43+ million iPhone's (these would be 5s and 5c's but in previous years they would be 5's), therefore a small percentage of customers experiencing the issue would still be a large number of users; let's say they sold 100 million iPhone 5's,1% that is 1 million users; I think the figure is more like 8%.

I commend them for admitting that this was a manufacturing fault but they needed to get this under control sooner and with less hassle. I took mine in over the weekend which took me abut 2 hours (to the store and back) then another hour or so to restore from a backup and then the time to re-enter all my passwords etc to get the loaner back up and running 100%. Then, when I get my original one back I have to do it all over again, phew.

Does anyone else notice the forced upgrade to iOS 7? It's frustrating to me that Apple would presume to make their repair of a defect conditional upon upgrading to a new OS.

I use quite a few Apple products, and am generally happy with them. But I really lost my trust in their iOS upgrades after I upgraded my iPad 1 to iOS 5. It became sluggish and frustrating to use. Apple doesn't allow you to downgrade (which really pisses me off. Why can't I downgrade MY device to the OS it was shipped with?).

I have a 4S, and on the whole, I love it. But I absolutely do not plan to upgrade it to iOS 7. Not because I think iOS 7 is bad (I love it on my iPad Air), but because there is no way in heck that I'm going to take the chance that it will slow my phone down. Indeed, there's quite the thread on Apple's support boards complaining of exactly this.

So, yeah - that's my rant about Apple forcing people to upgrade.

Anyone with an iPhone 5 is going to want to be on iOS7. This program isn't for iPhones 4 or 4S so I don't understand why you're upset.

I'm not upset, just making a comment about my experience upgrading versions of iOS.

Forcing people to upgrade instead of giving them the choice takes power away from the end-user. I find that problematic.

With iPhone BOM (Bill Of Materials) being way lower than that of phones like Samsung Galaxy S I guess nobody should be surprised that some low cost components have sub-par quality. While some iPhone owners might be disappointed with the low quality of their devices many Apple fans will see a silver lining in the fact that use of cheaper components maximizes Apple profits.

This issue happened on a family member's iPhone 5 a couple weeks ago - because it was just out of warranty, both Apple and the carrier wanted to charge the fee. There was no mention of this program at the time, and the carrier convinced her to trade in the 5 and "upgrade" to the 5C for a bit more.

Smart move, Big Evil Carrier - going to make a nice profit on reselling that as a refurb.

I just went through the Genius Bar process on an iPhone 5 I have taken out of circulation at work. In all, I was there 40 minutes; I dropped off the phone and I will be notified when it is ready for pickup.

I brought the device in wiped to factory on iOS 7.0.6.

The steps they took:

-Wipe and "re-image" via Apple Configurator, pre-installing a diagnostic utility (~20 min.) Presumably it took longer due to the need to apply the newer version iOS? The image download took a while, which surprised me. My company uses Caching Server on a Mac Mini to serve Apple packages on the local LAN. A Multi-GB package shouldn't take that long, IMO.-Run through the utility, noting physical damage and ruling out customer-liable causes for the defect in question. Damage such as broken/cracked glass, deformed case (bent or dents). ~10 min.-A full superficial inspection is performed noting any scratches or otherwise for the RMA process.-RMA and help ticket administration ~ 10 min.

I was told 5 business days for return.

I hope this helps someone set expectations.

---Update:

I was notified Friday evening my device was ready for pickup. I went back to retrieve it on Monday. I did receive the same device that I sent in. However, it did not have the SIM. It is their policy to pull the SIM before shipping to repair depot. They could not locate my SIM from the previous visit and provisioned a new Sprint (yes, I know...) SIM. This was a device in my backup pool, so I have not yet tried to fully activate it.

In all, the retrieval took another 40 mins. I don't think 1.5 hours is really appropriate, but it makes an 18-month old, $700 phone operable again.

This is a problem with ruthless scam artists exploiting the homeless rather than Apple being at fault. This sort of thing has existed for decades, I remember teenagers in the late 90's being convinced to sign up for bank accounts with ATM cards back when ATMs started, and being left holding the bag when the guys who bought their ATM cards and PIN would use those to defraud banks.