So, recently I have been listening to some industrial, dark, progressive techno such as SNTS.

When I play this and someone walks in, they normally say "whats this shit" or "is the record stuck".

It is either too repetitive or just noise to some people. For me, if you listen properly you will understand that there are subtle changes and atmospheric sounds which are in addition to the boom boom boom.

I understand that everyone has their own taste and you cannot force someone to like something, but I don't get it especially when they are already into house, trance etc.

Yeah, pretty common. Do your own thing and enjoy what floats your boat. I actually hold similar views on some sorts of music. Honkytonk country, for example, or some punk music. Just file it under "just not their cup of tea".

House and trance these days are basically pop music. If you take the Top 40 vocal off most female vocal centered pop tracks and extend the track out a couple minutes, not much difference.

Also, history and the universe have demonstrated, quite wickedly and over and over, that people are assholes and think what ever their preference is is the best possible preference.

One thing I have found that helps is to ask them, politely, to sit down and listen to your favorite track and explain what it is you like about it. I often get friends to at least understand why I like something even if they don't end up liking it themselves. They end up at least appreciating my point of view and taste.

To me, the goal of argumentation and persuasive language should be first to get some one to understand and appreciate the merits of your point of view, then if possible change their mind.

Like, for example, you have to acknowledge the opposition that techno is pretty fucking repetitive. But there are several utilities to its repetitiveness.

you have to understand that a lot of the music weirdos listen to is an acquired taste and to people whove never been exposed to much of it it really does sound like a big ol pile of noise. Theres no way then that they're gonna be able to be listening out for the slight changes over 4 minutes because its still too different for them to know that that is even the point

Also another thing is that some music requires active listening to "get" or for you to realise what's actually going on. It requires you to sit there and primarily listen to the music.
Many people are not willing to do this and just want something playing in the background to which they listen to passively.
They probably don't hear the subtle changes and details going on and aren't willing to pay attention to it in the first place.

I love good, deep, driving techno. Dj'ing it is a blast. Yet I'm still, somewhere, deep down, biased against techno. The 1% of me that is still a jazz/funk snob will likely never let me put together a techno album because techno is never good enough unless it's from someone else.

I love good, deep, driving techno. Dj'ing it is a blast. Yet I'm still, somewhere, deep down, biased against techno. The 1% of me that is still a jazz/funk snob will likely never let me put together a techno album because techno is never good enough unless it's from someone else.

Yeah I know what you mean Especially the 4/4 beat is what turns most "intellectual" musicians off it. A friend of mine studies music and thinks like that although I managed to turn hm on to some techno and electronic stuff. He actually enjoys some of Monolake/Robert Henke's stuff.

To me it can feel a bit like a guilty pleasure but I've learned to own it I also feel like that point of view is a bit snobbish so there's that.

I love some techno but I get bored pretty quick if the set is 100% 4onthefloor tracks with same build/breakdown structure (and techniques) throughout. I need some extra rawness or hints that the producer also has a soft spot for minimalism à-la Steve Reich. Anything that goes beyond the "hi hat on and, snare on 2 & 4" would be enough actually.

I love some techno but I get bored pretty quick if the set is 100% 4onthefloor tracks with same build/breakdown structure (and techniques) throughout. I need some extra rawness or hints that the producer also has a soft spot for minimalism à-la Steve Reich. Anything that goes beyond the "hi hat on and, snare on 2 & 4" would be enough actually.

I agree that sometimes it can be boring, for me also if the beats are "too simple" and no background noises then obviously it will be too repetitive.

On the flip side, for me if I hear a great beat or section of a track that I'm feeling, I don't mind hearing it over and over.

One example of something I am listening to a lot is this set from SNTS live in Berlin.

*Can't post links yet: youtube.com/watch?v=_UYEOeyRm4E

At around 33:00 there is a machine like sound and wierd dark noises that gives the set some depth but still has the great techno beat. This section goes on for some time but keeps me entertained by either dance mode or maybe tranced out? I may have some issue mentally but I keep repeating this section of the video!

Not sure how others listen but different types of music cause me to think or or 'do' different things. Dark Drum N Bass with epic intros and breakdowns has some kind of movie mind effect where as techno has a trance like dance like state of mind (no I am not on drugs right now).

Either way most dance music has feeling and changes in it if one is to listen properly.

I love some techno but I get bored pretty quick if the set is 100% 4onthefloor tracks with same build/breakdown structure (and techniques) throughout. I need some extra rawness or hints that the producer also has a soft spot for minimalism à-la Steve Reich. Anything that goes beyond the "hi hat on and, snare on 2 & 4" would be enough actually.

I think techno and all dance music is largely about context too--I kind of feel like if you've never been to a good, proper rave and, furthermore, never been to a rave on a good roll its harder to get. Let us be honest: dance music is party music.

I enjoy it at home on a bluetooth speaker that can't properly reproduce some of the most important frequencies and enjoy it because it evokes that context for me.

I began enjoying electronic dance music before I went to a rave or new they existed, but all I listened to was Moby, the Chemical Brothers (still my #1 favorite and the only "band poster" I have in my studio), Fatboy Slim and a little Aphex Twin and some Industrial. I didn't really "get it" until I went to my first rave.

I think techno and all dance music is largely about context too--I kind of feel like if you've never been to a good, proper rave and, furthermore, never been to a rave on a good roll its harder to get. Let us be honest: dance music is party music.

I enjoy it at home on a bluetooth speaker that can't properly reproduce some of the most important frequencies and enjoy it because it evokes that context for me.

I began enjoying electronic dance music before I went to a rave or new they existed, but all I listened to was Moby, the Chemical Brothers (still my #1 favorite and the only "band poster" I have in my studio), Fatboy Slim and a little Aphex Twin and some Industrial. I didn't really "get it" until I went to my first rave.

That's an interesting point, and upon reflection I think that hanging out in clubs, at raves, or festivals adds a visceral quality to the association. The bass punching you in the gut while engulfed in fog and drenched in disorienting strobes while the sweat is condensing on the ceiling and raining down on the crowd.

That said, I was into EBM without ever being to a venue playing it. It was mostly commercial house stuff being played at clubs at the time. Things only came ito their own when I went to Techno clubs.

I believe, like any music or track, its down to the listeners connective experience. Whether that is a scene, an occasion, event, happening, memory, people, friends and so on.
All music has its place at various times and the more you have a connection, the more you will connect and like it. God if I only ever listened to one genre, track or artist Id, as anyone would go insane.

On topic I listen to various style of techno and its a very large genre, but I know the styles (rather than artists) I like. To me its all about the sounds, beat and creative patterns within the architecture of the track. Saying that listening and experiencing techno and other genres while off your tits, in a crowd of strangers who become friends, whilst gurning and dancing to a HUGE soundsystem in an environment of large proportions is an experience you rarely forget...unless you overdo the whole consumption side of things!

Still I like to stick on the headphones at work, dial into DIFM and stick on techno on a Friday afternoon to get through the final stretch of underwriting for the day.

I believe, like any music or track, its down to the listeners connective experience. Whether that is a scene, an occasion, event, happening, memory, people, friends and so on.
All music has its place at various times and the more you have a connection, the more you will connect and like it. God if I only ever listened to one genre, track or artist Id, as anyone would go insane.

On topic I listen to various style of techno and its a very large genre, but I know the styles (rather than artists) I like. To me its all about the sounds, beat and creative patterns within the architecture of the track. Saying that listening and experiencing techno and other genres while off your tits, in a crowd of strangers who become friends, whilst gurning and dancing to a HUGE soundsystem in an environment of large proportions is an experience you rarely forget...unless you overdo the whole consumption side of things!

Still I like to stick on the headphones at work, dial into DIFM and stick on techno on a Friday afternoon to get through the final stretch of underwriting for the day.

Very well put. Especially the middle paragraph. I'm not a particular fan of a Trance, but I will never my first roll...it kicked in around about 5am as I'd been hesitant to take it. It was a pretty empty dance floor and the DJ was an oldie, but goodie willing to play that kind of late night set. It all seemed to go on forever and even though there were few people left dancing, some were even sleeping, melted against a wall or whatever they could find, there was a feeling of oneness that I've only very rarely felt previously or afterwords (and I can say that I have also felt it 100% sober and 100% sober at raves). Finally as the set ended my friend convinced me I need to rest. Walking out into the morning just seeping over the horizon and still rolling, hard, is something I'll cherish for the rest of my life.

Likewise. I totally don't own an Aerosmith album. I generally switch the station if they come on. But one of my first huge rock concerts and one of my first joints was at an Aerosmith concert. I often see them live even to this day.

Being minimal convincingly and in an interesting way is really hard work (for me at least).

please don't overthink, not everything has deep meaning behind, technically making minimal techno tracks (such as one posted) is really easy
it has simple mechanism behind, musician was working his ass to get popular, then he got fanbase and guess what ? even if he records few farts and puts it on 4x4 beats with few clicks and claps it will sell, so why work hard to make quality music anymore ?
yeah you can dance to bare beat and few pads here and there, but pretty much thats it

i will bring example from another type of art
kazimir malevich, painting before getting popular:

please don't overthink, not everything has deep meaning behind, technically making minimal techno tracks (such as one posted) is really easy
it has simple mechanism behind, musician was working his ass to get popular, then he got fanbase and guess what ? even if he records few farts and puts it on 4x4 beats with few clicks and claps it will sell, so why work hard to make quality music anymore ?
yeah you can dance to bare beat and few pads here and there, but pretty much thats it

i will bring example from another type of art
kazimir malevich, painting before getting popular:

yeah but second one takes no skills whatsoever, if you like it you can get tube of paint and paper and make one right no
my point is that saying that making square is harder than first one, and glorifying it - sounds funny