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Report: Toyota continuing to sell recalled vehicles without a fix

Toyota is in the beginning stages of a new voluntary recall that affects 2.3 million vehicles. The recall involves accelerator pedal mechanisms that could stick due to wear and cause unintended acceleration, though it is technically not related to an earlier, larger recall to fix floor mats on certain Toyota and Lexus models that could also cause accelerator pedals to stick.

The folks over at Kicking Tires spoke with National Manager of Environmental Safety and Quality for Toyota, John Hanson, who revealed that vehicles affected by the recall are still sitting on dealer lots for customers to purchase in spite of their potentially defective accelerator pedal mechanisms. Hanson said the reason that Toyota is letting dealers still sell the vehicles even though they may have to come back in for repair is because the problem tends to appear after extended wear. However, since Toyota doesn't yet have a fix figured out, dealers can reportedly only replace the defective pedal mechanisms with new mechanisms of the same type for now. Hanson is also reportedly unsure about whether or not the vehicles affected by the recall are still being manufactured, but said he thought the lines involved were down.

While it is within the law for Toyota to keep affected vehicles on the lot given the fact that the recall is voluntary, we hope its dealers have enough scruples to inform potential customers about the issue before these vehicles are purchased.

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Anonymous

Anonymous

5 Years Ago

I think the problem is, Toyota buys these parts in bulk from the supplier. It is a part that is shared over many different models. So you are talking about coming up with new tooling, new parts buys etc. It takes time. And millions of dollars.

I am not sure they even have an idea as to what is going on. The problem is intermittent. And those problems are the hardest to solve when it comes to systems. If they end up with a mandatory safety recall over millions of cars it could literally bankrupt the company. Nobody wants that. However, this is a SERIOUS issue that is costing people their lives. My Dad knows had problems with this on one his Toyota cars and his neighbor up the the street bought a new Toyota Camry and has had happen to him twice.

The reason why there is so much venom spewed at Toyota right now is that they built themselves up to be a perfect company. They were the ultimate in quality and value. Now, it turns out that they have been ignoring an issue that is costing people lives. Don't get me wrong, Ford has had a history of doing this with its Pinto and Explorer. It is well known that these corporations have a "death ratio" in which to calculate how many deaths make it financially viable for a recall to become an actionable event.

Then if you do more research, you'll find out that Toyota lied about other things such as sludge in motors, and other issues. People are angry at the hypocrisy involved. Toyota built themselves up to be the mother of all car companies. When people find out they are just like the rest it is a major disappointment.

Anonymous

Anonymous

>we hope its dealers have enough scruples to inform potential customers about the issue before these vehicles are purchased.

No disrespect intended, but this is a nice hope to have. Would that it were true.

As for the people bagging on people who like their Toyotas, get a life; there are several different marques out there, and each one has appeal to its intended target. Objective criticism of a vehicle or maker you don't care for (don't like the plastics, etc.) is no big deal -- but denigrating someone because THEY like a car -- is just childish and stupid. (Full disclosure: I don't own a Toyota nor does anyone in my family.)

And stop blaming the victim (state trooper) for that tragedy. Honestly, people, some of us need to quit acting like jerks. Would you dare say what you said if the guy's family/friends were in the room with you? A computer screen does not make it okay to be a tool. We all need to be cognizant of this. Just think before you post. Seriously.

Anonymous

5 Years Ago

Every safety related recall I can ever remember required quarantining the cars and not all of those recalls were mandatory. You couldn't even take those cars in the recall on a test drive. The fine for selling one without the recall being done was either 5,000 or 10,000 dollars I don't remember off the top of my head.

Non-safety related recalls were ok you could drive the cars around but you really weren't supposed to sell them either new or used till the recall was done. Had that happen on XC60s when they first came out. There was a problem with the intercooler that would make the car run badly. Not a safety problem but would kill your fuel mileage and cause very high emission levels.

Anonymous

5 Years Ago

That's the same way it was when I co-owned a dealership. We were given a list of affected VIN numbers and those vehicles were pulled around back until they were fixed and notes were attatched to the files notating that they could not be sold.

If you NVDR'ed a vehicle with an open recall you could be in real big trouble.

My first car was a new 98 honda civic, my college student sister STILL drives it, with over 200,000 miles on it!! It has NEVER once left her stranded!! My second car was my "lesson" a new 2004 Mazda 6 , in the first 6 months I had both headlights go out, it sounded like I was dragging my muffler when backing up (turns out the rear breaks were improperly installed at the factory) My fuse cover and my door light covers fell off all the time, My transmission had to be fixed twice!!! The interior seat fabric started pulling apart at the seams..when I called they said "if you call corporate and complain enough they will fix them" I saw a mazda 6 in pictures one time and thought "hey I don't have ANY of those lights on my dash" turns out since the day I bought the thing the fuse was out...I never knew a light was supposed to show me where the air vents were blowing! BIGGEST PIECE OF CRAP!!! Where is the MAZDA's recall for being JUNK!

My husband had a new 2004 chevy cavalier. There was so much wrong with it I can hardly list it. Back seat wouldn't fold down, lock on trunk stopped working,air vent handle broke, horn stopped working,bolt holding strapping on muffler broke, defroster stopped working on the windsheild setting, that was fun in the snow. All with less than 50,000 miles on the car. Not to mention when my husband took it in for a door ding to be fixed the guy laughed and said let me show you something. Put my husbands car on the lift and showed him the car was nothing but rust on the door and actually but a pen though the door that looked fine on the paint side. He literally told my husband that he LOVES the yukon denali and bought a fully loaded one and came home and ripped the undersides out and rhino lined it to keep it from rusting because he said all GM's do is rust from the inside out!My best friend just bought a new chevy transverse..the front bumper fell off three times before she could make the first payment. "bad clips"I currently drive a 2008 pathfinder that has had not a lick of problems in 50,000 miles. I am trading it in tommorrow to pickup our 2010 Toyota sequioa. I have no fear of this recall. If your an intelligent consumer you inform your dealership of the recall, check your vin to verify your recall work is complete . I would much rather have a recall that is being dealt with than a GM with a TON of crappy parts that no one cares to fix!P.S. if your looking for a pathfinder mine will be at Jim Robinson Toyota in Wheeling tommorrow!!!

Anonymous

Anonymous

5 Years Ago

Maybe this should be elevated to a mandatory recall so that an immediate stop to sales of the vehicles can be initiated. Their spokesman's reasoning is basically "it hasn't killed enough people yet, and we promise to fix it before it does, even though we don't know how to fix it yet."

It's pretty irresponsible to knowingly sell a car with a safety defect under the assumption that every customer will get the eventual fix before the pedal deteriorates enough to kill them.

Anonymous

Anonymous

Anonymous

5 Years Ago

I agree with the others posting here, that if GM or Ford did this, we would see this all over the news. This is really shameful on Toyota's part, and to me, opens them up to all kinds of lawsuits if something would happen to an owner of one of these cars. They will probably take the low road, and say that the cars are technically in possession of the dealers etc., etc., but in any case, this doesn't make sense from a PR standpoint. Just shows, that you'd better be an informed consumer, and research before you buy a product.

Anonymous

5 Years Ago

@invisiblepigeon3 - my information comes from a number of Tier One and Tier Two suppliers who have done business with all the automakers. Toyota tried to speed the time from concept to production in a number of ways, one of them by relying on the tremendous amount of theoretical research Toyota has done on different systems in cars and trucks, and using that research as the basis for computer simulations. Everyone uses computer simulations, up to a point, but there comes a time where you have to make prototype parts and prototype cars and trucks, then physical test them in the real world.

Two things Toyota did to short cut the process, and it's coming back to bite them in the @ss: One, they cut back on the number of prototypes they did make and test, rushing through the process to make production deadlines. Two, what prototypes they did do were, made on the final final hard tooling (instead of soft tooling) bought for production, the testing was done as hard as possible (everyone does that) and as fast as possible (not everyone in the auto business does that) and then changes were made to the hard tooling in time to make production parts. That's not the best way to do things, because changes get made on the fly. It usually results in hard tooling (stamping and forging dies and molds for plastic parts) that gets worn out prematurely, and affects product quality. It also does not catch problems soon enough. Not only do the Detroit auto makers NOT do things this way, neither does Honda. This habit that Toyota had in their design and engineering processes is why the engine oil sludge problem was never caught until well after it affected customers. It's why the Tacoma frames rusted prematurely and was never caught. It's why the Toyota Tundra Truck Bed Bounce problem was never caught prior to finalizing the truck for production. And so on. You can only rely on cyberspace testing so far, and then you have to build prototype cars and trucks, drive the piss out of them, and let the environment and usage perform the "Butterfly Effect" on the car or truck, and see real world usage affects reliability. There is simply no real substitute for if.

Toyota is very slowly changing their ways, but that does NOTHING to affect what's already designed and produced. Other problems will crop up. Toyota's suppliers, Japanese owned and fully American, plus a handful of European owned suppliers, are all seeing signs of this. There are many more things that will come up. Some serious, some just annoying. This is far from isolated.

Anonymous

5 Years Ago

This has all the potential of turning into Toyota's Firestone/Explorer debacle. They don't have a fix yet, they're not even sure how to fix, and this is the tip of the iceberg. NIkkie, Japans equivalent of the Wall Street Journal, is openly questioning whether this has hot Toyota's reputation or not. Toyota has one lawsuit against them in the USA, where one of their former attorney's is a witness for the plaintiff, and has testified that Toyota has hid evidence of defects.

Toyotaâs own management in Japan has been acknowledging for the last four years that their design processes have a problem, which four years ago led then CEO Katsuaki Watanbe to publicly state they were slowing their process down by six months and dramatically increasing the amount of prototyping they would do. Anyone who has been in the Tier One or Tier Two auto parts business already knew years ago that Toyota was relying on more virtual testing and less physical prototyping than their competitors, and many of these people, including those working for Japanese owned suppliers questioned whether it would led to trouble down the road. It appears that it indeed may have, and as someone who has been in the business for twenty-five years, I can tell you in no uncertain terms that this wonât be the last issue for Toyota. Other will happen, perhaps not as large, but they will absolutely come up.

Why do you always post on Toyota speculation posts? It will absolutely come? Does he have insider information? How does he know it'll absolutely come? How do you?

Interesting how you can make affirmations about things that are pure speculation. WTF did you buy Toyota's for anyway? Why didn't you buy a VW or Audi since you do nothing but cheerlead them and bash Toyota?