Ay-ups V4 (intermediates on the bars, narrow on the helmet). One of the few lights you can set up so they don't blind other road users by accident. I'm also not into 'trendy', but nothing else came close in terms of form factor and capability.

The Walrus wrote:Lights! Christ almighty this shouldn't be so hard!]Rechargeable sets could be the go. Ay Up seems to be the trendy option but being trendy isn't my thing (it used to be ) and I want functionality. !

They arent trendy, they are popular because they work well. Find me an unhappy Ay Up user......

Thanks for all the replies. I think trend has lots to do with it, but trends can be for good reasons.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not after a cheap option and I believe you get what you pay for but when it starts creeping into the area of $500 it's getting a bit rich for me...call me tight if you will. I guess $350 is a rough budget!

If I'm going the dynamo option it's hub or nothing. Ayups will cost minimum of $250 so what dynamo 'hub' options are there that compare?

Some people say that unless you're doing > 10,000kms per year a Schmidt dynohub is overkill and the Shimano Nexus hub will do the job. It is certainly cheaper.

Probably $60-70 more than the sidewall dynamo, so with an IQ Cyo and the Toplight Flat, would probably come out at around $200. But this is buying on-line from Bike24, not locally. By the way, the IQ Cyo is certainly as bright as the single Ayup. It is a great lightset - really bright and ideal for the 'always-ready' situation. Suits me well, I can't be bothered faffing about with recharging - been there before.

[edit] Just did a price check for you. To be exact - $A194 delivered to you from Germany (bike24)

"After about 12 months, my magicshine 900 lumen bike light has died. For once its not the light or the battery but I think its the connector on the light side. For $77 AUD I'm replacing it with the new 1000 lumen version.

I wanted to get Ayups, I really did. For what I was looking at it would have been $250 which realistically means $60 per year over 5 years. I estimate this is what I will spend replacing magicshines every 12 to 18 months, so in my eyes, they are both the same price.

My issue with the Ayups is they just aren't bright enough without getting 2 sets, and I can't be bothered mucking around with the helmet ones as well on everyday commuting. The new Ayups can be configured 40% brighter, which I assume takes them up to about 550 lumens. Still not as bright as the 1000 lumen MS light. Even accounting for the Chinese lumen exchange rate, which probably means they are really only 700-800, they are still brighter on the road.

I will look at them again in 12 to 24 months when I forecast my MS will again succombe to the rigours of daily all weather use."

"After about 12 months, my magicshine 900 lumen bike light has died. For once its not the light or the battery but I think its the connector on the light side. For $77 AUD I'm replacing it with the new 1000 lumen version.

I wanted to get Ayups, I really did. For what I was looking at it would have been $250 which realistically means $60 per year over 5 years. I estimate this is what I will spend replacing magicshines every 12 to 18 months, so in my eyes, they are both the same price.

My issue with the Ayups is they just aren't bright enough without getting 2 sets, and I can't be bothered mucking around with the helmet ones as well on everyday commuting. The new Ayups can be configured 40% brighter, which I assume takes them up to about 550 lumens. Still not as bright as the 1000 lumen MS light. Even accounting for the Chinese lumen exchange rate, which probably means they are really only 700-800, they are still brighter on the road.

I will look at them again in 12 to 24 months when I forecast my MS will again succombe to the rigours of daily all weather use."

I did see your post Rhubarb ( I did read the entire thread) and at that price its hard to go past that option, even if it is on a 12 month replacement plan! Still an option but then again so is a 900 lumen torch with handlebar fitting!

Haven't you figured it out already? Get the best and brightest! I did look at dynamos but for the price they asked for I could get 10,000 lumens and be a genuine glow in the dark UFO.

Currently my 900 lumens does me well and at the time I purchased it, had the best output. But now it's been superceded by other super lumens. So buy the best for now but bike tech as it is, 6 months down the track you will suffer from lumen envy.

The hub dynamo will need to be built into your wheel of course so that will add about $70-$80, then that should be the full cost. Fitting is something you should be able to do yourself. Wiresnips/peelers, some cable-ties and shrink-wrap tubing and you'll get all the wiring with the lights. Use the double-pole cable and cable-tie it to your frame. It's pretty easy.

Yep, clueless is pretty spot on. So I'll help you with some clues. I have exactly that torch that you've linked (but got it from DX).

It has a P7 LED, which is made by Seoul Semi-conductor (SSC). So the advert that you are reading and the URL is making a FALSE claim when it describes it as a P7 Cree and/or Cree LED. It's pretty clueless to buy from someone who would make such a FALSE, if not deceptive claim. Why ? Read on...

The first MTE DX delivered had one of the 4 elements of the P7 DOA. It took over 3 months to get a replacement from DX. While the replacement is rated as 900 lumen, as indicated in the other thread, that's the best you'll ever get if you are really really lucky. The one I got was good for about 600 lumen - even with 4 elements working. As pointed out by someone else in another thread, LED's are "binned" when manufactured according to how close they get to the theoretical max output, and the ones being used in the torches look very much like the ones from the "reject" bin.

The Cree LED's in the Ayups are a single-element LED. The reason that SSC use a 4 element LED is they haven't got thetechnological tricks that Cree use to make their single element LED's. Some manufacturers are copycats, not innovators, and poor ones at that.

My single Ayup set (intermediate beam) does a better job than the MTE P7 and the MagicShines, and lasts a lot longer on a battery charge, and fails gracefully. The MTE's P7 just dies totally, like the MagicShines.

Next big negative - that bracket shown in the advert is also available from DX. It fits only a 25 mm bar, but does not grip very well (IIRC has a cheap and nasty plastic thread). The MTE P7 has a very heavy head, and will tend to rotate around the bars and point at the ground. Also hard to mount it with rubber or wrist bands, because of the unbalanced heavy head.

As for the magicshines, yep, I've tried one of them too. I really wanted to give the P7 another chance, in case I was unlucky with the MTE. But the first magicshine arrived DOA too, and took nearly 4 months to get a replacement sorted. On the road, it's still no better than my Ayups and runs so damned hot I don't expect to see it last (case temperature around the torch unit was 65 deg after about 10 minutes running).

The reason these things are cheap is because there is very little quality control - they are cheap and nasty. You can be lucky - Rhubarb is very happy to buy a magicshine every year. But ask yourself can you afford the hassle of the bad luck I've had (50% failure rate) ?

Ayups are popular because they work. They are reliable and durable. You won't have to buy another set in a year or two's time, unless you want them for your wife's bike etc.,.

WombatK

Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us -Jerry Garcia

Well, I know that LED technology has moved on, but I bought two of a similar type of torch from Deal Extreme about 3-4 years ago. They are Ultrafire C2 3W Cree LED torches. No doubt the lumens brightness is lower than this '900 lumens' job, but they are very bright - maybe 400 lumens. The thing is they were the best Cree LEDs about then and cost me ~ $24 each

Yep, clueless is pretty spot on. So I'll help you with some clues. I have exactly that torch that you've linked (but got it from DX).

It has a P7 LED, which is made by Seoul Semi-conductor (SSC). So the advert that you are reading and the URL is making a FALSE claim when it describes it as a P7 Cree and/or Cree LED. It's pretty clueless to buy from someone who would make such a FALSE, if not deceptive claim. Why ? Read on...

The first MTE DX delivered had one of the 4 elements of the P7 DOA. It took over 3 months to get a replacement from DX. While the replacement is rated as 900 lumen, as indicated in the other thread, that's the best you'll ever get if you are really really lucky. The one I got was good for about 600 lumen - even with 4 elements working. As pointed out by someone else in another thread, LED's are "binned" when manufactured according to how close they get to the theoretical max output, and the ones being used in the torches look very much like the ones from the "reject" bin.

The Cree LED's in the Ayups are a single-element LED. The reason that SSC use a 4 element LED is they haven't got thetechnological tricks that Cree use to make their single element LED's. Some manufacturers are copycats, not innovators, and poor ones at that.

My single Ayup set (intermediate beam) does a better job than the MTE P7 and the MagicShines, and lasts a lot longer on a battery charge, and fails gracefully. The MTE's P7 just dies totally, like the MagicShines.

Next big negative - that bracket shown in the advert is also available from DX. It fits only a 25 mm bar, but does not grip very well (IIRC has a cheap and nasty plastic thread). The MTE P7 has a very heavy head, and will tend to rotate around the bars and point at the ground. Also hard to mount it with rubber or wrist bands, because of the unbalanced heavy head.

As for the magicshines, yep, I've tried one of them too. I really wanted to give the P7 another chance, in case I was unlucky with the MTE. But the first magicshine arrived DOA too, and took nearly 4 months to get a replacement sorted. On the road, it's still no better than my Ayups and runs so damned hot I don't expect to see it last (case temperature around the torch unit was 65 deg after about 10 minutes running).

The reason these things are cheap is because there is very little quality control - they are cheap and nasty. You can be lucky - Rhubarb is very happy to buy a magicshine every year. But ask yourself can you afford the hassle of the bad luck I've had (50% failure rate) ?

Ayups are popular because they work. They are reliable and durable. You won't have to buy another set in a year or two's time, unless you want them for your wife's bike etc.,.

Interesting comments Wombat. Are you saying that the above problems apply to 'all' of these 900 lumen lights? What I mean by that is the thread dedicated to that kind of light was mainly talking about avoiding paying $200 at the LBS for the same light. Is it fair to say that the reason you pay $200 rather than sub $100 online, for what essentially appears to be the same light, is for the reasons you have outlined, or are the $200 versions much the same?

I can't tell you about the $200 version. Cellbikes have a $99 "clearance special" and another for $169 (both currentlyout of stock). Your guess is as good as mine as to whether they are made better. They look the same, but you could tell yourself they might be made in a different factory with better quality control if you really want totake the risk.

Part of what you buy when you buy Ayups is the peace of mind that comes from a reputable brand. If you buyel-cheapo chinese rip-offs, you aren't paying for that; and without the quality control and R & D put in to the reputablebrand, nobody can tell you whether they are "all like that".

WombatK

Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us -Jerry Garcia

I just bought the 1,200 lumen rechargeable from Cell ($139). Does it actually output 1,200 lumens? No idea. Is it bright enough? Absolutely.

I can't comment on what happens as the charge gets low (i.e. graceful or dramatic death) and I can't comment on durability of the light through various weather conditions. I am still on the first charge from last Friday and am still going strong with the light running at half strength most of the time.

ConsI don't like the strobe as it is way too bright.There weren't any included instructions on charging etc (if I can work it out, anyone can). Minor.The cycling from bright -> half -> strobe is unidirectional and the light has to go off to get back to bright. Minor.

ProsThe full beam is awesome for the odd unlit roads I commute/train on.The handlebar mount is okay and stable (I've mounted the light under the handlebar).The half beam is more than adequate for most urban roads.

The hub dynamo will need to be built into your wheel of course so that will add about $70-$80, then that should be the full cost. Fitting is something you should be able to do yourself. Wiresnips/peelers, some cable-ties and shrink-wrap tubing and you'll get all the wiring with the lights. Use the double-pole cable and cable-tie it to your frame. It's pretty easy.

Based on this kind of price I could get a dynamo system for under $300, which is around the starting price of the Ayups. Am I missing something because it makes me wonder why you would go with a rechargeable option over this set up?

The Walrus wrote:Based on this kind of price I could get a dynamo system for under $300, which is around the starting price of the Ayups. Am I missing something because it makes me wonder why you would go with a rechargeable option over this set up?

Some people prefer to be able to remove their lights - for security and/or to strip their bike back for daylight rides. Personally I prefer the security of a bolted-on system, and the ever-ready nature of the dynamo lights.

Some years ago, when I had payed a couple of hundred dollars for car maintenance (a regular thing), I thought about the comparison of car lights. Would I baulk at paying for a new car headlight? Certainly not, even if it cost $200. And are my bike lights important for my safety? Yes, very much. So since then I have equipped all three of my main riding bikes with dynamo lights, and also our tandem. It has cost some money but in the overall scope of things it's not that much. We use these bikes and ride them, day or night.

The Walrus wrote:Some years ago, when I had payed a couple of hundred dollars for car maintenance (a regular thing), I thought about the comparison of car lights. Would I baulk at paying for a new car headlight? Certainly not, even if it cost $200.

You obviously haven't priced car headlights lately, you can add an extra zero on the end of your price (at least) for a HID version from a Euro marque.

Do the dynamo lights have some sort of backup charging for when you stop at lights?

Ross wrote:Do the dynamo lights have some sort of backup charging for when you stop at lights?

Yes. A capacitor charges very quickly when riding to give a 'standlight' that stays on for 3-4 mins. And my wife has a light with a 'Senso' function - it automatically switches on when daylight gets dim, a dark storm comes over or you ride into a tunnel. The lighting is fool-proof with a hub dynamo, and it is very bright for urban and rural uses.

Dynamo drag for the more expensive Schmidt hub-dynamo, when switched on, is equivalent to climbing 1m in 1km (1 in 1000 = as near to flat as you'll get), and something like 20cm in a km when switched off. So little drag that I often just leave the lights switched on as I cannot tell any difference in drag between 'on' and 'off'.

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