Aldi's owns Trader Joe's. Like Trader Joe's, Aldi actually brokers some good deals with some good quality food companies. (Trader Joe's label meat has some Neimann Ranch products, some of TJ's chocolate is Callibaut.)

These are photos of some of the Detroit style pizzas that were made yesterday, 2 pictures of the regular metal spatula I use to take the Detroit style pizzas out of the steel pan (included is the metal spatula without the wood handle that I tried yesterday). The metal spatula without the wooden handle seemed to work better I think because it is a little thinner. I want to look and see if I can find a thinner spatula to made sure the caramelized edges are loose before removing the pizza from the pan. A different Detroit style pizza (Steveís Smokey Joe) was made yesterday. It had applewood smoked bacon fresh from market (baked in the oven), skin brushed with garlic herb infused olive oil, AMPI mild white cheddar, applewood smoked Gouda cheese, blend of mozzarella, garlic Alfredo sauce and a sprinkling of Greek oregano on top. A customer ordered a 4-square mushroom and pepperoni pizza. Another Detroit style pizza had cut up basil placed on the skin, cheddar and blend of mozzarellas, Mesquite chicken and fire roasted tomatoes (Marco Pollo).

I forgot to take photos of the pizza made with the frozen dough ball, but it didnít rise as much in height in the bake, but the bottom did brown and the edges did caramelize. I donít think frozen dough balls are going to work for this style of pizza.

These Detroit style pizzas were made with the dough I had mixed at market with the regular hydration I have been using.

If I recall correctly, one of the experiments that you were to conduct was to use 0.70% IDY instead of 0.80% IDY (to slow down the fermentation and rise), and with a hydration of 75%. How did that test work out?

If I recall correctly, one of the experiments that you were to conduct was to use 0.70% IDY instead of 0.80% IDY (to slow down the fermentation and rise), and with a hydration of 75%. How did that test work out?

Peter

Peter,

You did recall correctly that I did do an experiment using 0.70% IDY and a hydration of 75%. I didn't resize those pictures, but will soon and post the results.

I waited until later in the day (around 3:30 PM) to start to try the two dough balls made with 0.70% IDY and 75% hydration because I wanted to see if the longer cold ferment time would make any difference in the final bake. I forgot to measure the poppy seed spacings, but the 2 dough balls didnít seem to ferment very much. It can be seen on the one picture when I held the dough ball up, there wasnít a lot of fermentation going on. Both doughs pressed out well in the pans and tempered well in the Hatco Unit. The final pizza with 0.70% IDY using 75% hydration was finished baking about 6:00 PM. Peterís advice to use 0.70% IDY with 75% hydration worked out well. Thanks Peter for your advise to use a smaller amount of IDY for a higher hydration Detroit style dough to be cold fermented for one day. I didnít have time to take a lot of photos of those two pizzas, but the crumb was very good. I am not sure about this, but the crumb did seem to be whiter in color.

I waited until later in the day (around 3:30 PM) to start to try the two dough balls made with 0.70% IDY and 75% hydration because I wanted to see if the longer cold ferment time would make any difference in the final bake.

Pies look good, Norma! Crumb appears softer and judging from the wider toasted cheese strip on the edge, looks like they didn't rise very much before going in the oven, then took off in the heat. Did you doing any proofing before dressing? Did you find the higher hydration led to easier handling in the pan?

I waited until later in the day (around 3:30 PM) to start to try the two dough balls made with 0.70% IDY and 75% hydration because I wanted to see if the longer cold ferment time would make any difference in the final bake. I forgot to measure the poppy seed spacings, but the 2 dough balls didnít seem to ferment very much. It can be seen on the one picture when I held the dough ball up, there wasnít a lot of fermentation going on. Both doughs pressed out well in the pans and tempered well in the Hatco Unit. The final pizza with 0.70% IDY using 75% hydration was finished baking about 6:00 PM. Peterís advice to use 0.70% IDY with 75% hydration worked out well. Thanks Peter for your advise to use a smaller amount of IDY for a higher hydration Detroit style dough to be cold fermented for one day. I didnít have time to take a lot of photos of those two pizzas, but the crumb was very good. I am not sure about this, but the crumb did seem to be whiter in color.

Norma,

Thank you for the update on the 0.70% IDY/75% hydration test. It appears to have worked well judging from your photos.

You have to date conducted many experiments and tests using both room temperature and cold fermentations and different amounts of yeast and different hydration values. And you have tried using salt and no salt in the doughs, and, more recently, you have used the "double knead" method. You have also put your refrigeration equipment and Hatco unit to good use to control dough temperatures at different stages, both during fermentation and also during the course of the day at market. Based on your experience and the results that you have achieved experimenting with and testing all of the different approaches, have you concluded which clone dough formulation (including dough ball weight) and dough preparation and management protocol seems to serve your purposes at market the best, and might be the one to settle on going forward? And, if so, why?

Also, have you settled on which cheeses (or cheese blends), tomatoes and pepperoni you will be using, at least in the near term while you sample other possibilities? And have you settled on any specific weights of the cheeses and sauce to use on your pizzas?

Pies look good, Norma! Crumb appears softer and judging from the wider toasted cheese strip on the edge, looks like they didn't rise very much before going in the oven, then took off in the heat. Did you doing any proofing before dressing? Did you find the higher hydration led to easier handling in the pan?

Brit,

The crumb was softer with the 75% hydration. I did temper both doughs in the steel pans in the Hatco Unit at about 104 degrees F before dressing and baking. My doughs in the steel pans donít rise a lot in the Hatco Unit, but seem to during the bake. Yes, I think the higher hydration did make the dough a little easier to press out in the steel pans. Steve also pressed one dough out in the steel pan and he also thought it was a little easier to pressed out the dough with the higher hydration.

Thank you for the update on the 0.70% IDY/75% hydration test. It appears to have worked well judging from your photos.

You have to date conducted many experiments and tests using both room temperature and cold fermentations and different amounts of yeast and different hydration values. And you have tried using salt and no salt in the doughs, and, more recently, you have used the "double knead" method. You have also put your refrigeration equipment and Hatco unit to good use to control dough temperatures at different stages, both during fermentation and also during the course of the day at market. Based on your experience and the results that you have achieved experimenting with and testing all of the different approaches, have you concluded which clone dough formulation (including dough ball weight) and dough preparation and management protocol seems to serve your purposes at market the best, and might be the one to settle on going forward? And, if so, why?

Also, have you settled on which cheeses (or cheese blends), tomatoes and pepperoni you will be using, at least in the near term while you sample other possibilities? And have you settled on any specific weights of the cheeses and sauce to use on your pizzas?

Peter

Peter,

Yes, I know I conducted many experiments and tests with many things on this thread with your help.

To answer your questions about which dough formulation I like best so far, it is the one with 0.70% IDY and 75% hydration that you recently suggested. The crumb is softer from that formulation. I really didnít want to go to 75% hydration, but since it seems to give a better crumb structure and tenderness, I guess I will try that at market for a bigger batch next week. So far I like the 9.5 oz dough ball weight for the 4-square and 19 oz of dough for the 8-square, unless we find out more about Buddyís dough ball weights. I like the ďdouble kneadingĒ method with the rest period in so far because it made the dough less sticky at home. I havenít tried the higher hydration at market with ďdouble kneadingĒ and a rest period, but think it might work about the same as it did when I mixed the dough at home. This is only for me at market, but the dough seems to hold up well all day, which I am glad about. I didnít want to have to make any dough on Tuesday which I donít have to do now. The reasons I would stay with the current mixing methods, tempering in the Hatco Unit, using the 70% IDY amount and a higher hydration is I want to be able to make the best Detroit style pizza I can for market and so far all this seems to work for market. I donít know if any of this will change, but for now I am satisfied with just about everything. The Detroit style pizzas do seem to be able to handle a lot of ingredients applied. I have to test next week if a dough mixed at market with a higher hydration can also take a lot of dressings.

I think I am settled on the AMPI mild white cheddar for around the perimeter of the steel pan and a blend of mozzarellas in the middle with a little of the AMPI mild white cheddar. I might use some smoked Gouda at times depending on what dressings are applied. I might also try some Feta for a Greek Detroit style. I donít think I can find any distributors in my area for the brick cheese, which I am not really happy about, but that is the way it is. At least the AMPI mild white cheddar does seem to work well for a Detroit style pizza. I didnít try the Super Dolce Super Sweet Super Heavy Pizza sauce yet to compare to my regular pizza sauce, but I sure would think it would be a lot easier just to use my regular pizza sauce, then to take up more room in my refrigeration units for another sauce. I might get Buddyís extra sauce out of the freezer next week to compare to the Super Dolce sauce. For the pepperoni I will probably stick to the brand I am using for my NY style pizzas because it does seem to bake fine on top of the Detroit style pizzas and is far less expensive than the coarse grind pepperoni. No, I havenít decided on any specific weights for the cheese or sauce. That is something I have to work on, especially since the cheddar is a little more expensive than my mozzarellas and more cheeses are applied for this type of pizza. For the sauce I soon need to purchase a smaller ladle to see how much I really apply.

If you have anything else for me to test or try, let me know. This thread has been a good learning experience for me. Thanks for the journey!

I agree, you've done a great job on this one Norma and we all appreciate it.

One question, and I'm sorry if I missed it, but how long of a tempering time are you doing in your Hatco unit at 104 degrees?I just did a thread search for "double kneading" and read through the 21 posts. If I had not started at #21 and just began with the most recent one I could have saved myself some time. Oh well, at least I know what it means now. The "rest" period you and Peter have discussed is simply the 10-15 minute period you wait until your second/final mix. Correct? Oh, also..is there a final dough temp that I need to be concerned about?Thanks again.