Re: Happy 53rd "Re-Dedication" Day - July 17th, 2008

Well I'm all for the birthday being july 17th. But the question I have for everybody is, when a ride soft opens for a month before its official "Opening Ceremony," when is the ride's birthday? If a movie is shown to the film academy, news reporters, and guests invited to preview the film, all prior to the official release date, when was the movie released?

The only reason I want to count July 17th in this instance is because it seemed much more of a premiere event than a preview. All of the dedications and formal opening ceremonies took place on this day, and it seems illogical to have plaques on the Mark Twain declaring its anniversary to be July 17th if that predates Disneyland's anniversary. There's a difference between unveiling something and having an opening.

Re: Happy 53rd "Re-Dedication" Day - July 17th, 2008

Originally Posted by mycroft16

I think DisneyMouse is right here... Disneyland is a living entity. It may not be flesh and blood but it certainly has a life and motion all it's own, growing and evolving with time. It may have been just a collection of buildings and such while it was being built... but on the 17th of July 53 years ago, Walt Disney himself breathed life into it with one of the most touching dedication speeches ever.

And now I am going to have nightmares about Walt breathing on buildings and then the buildings coming to life and chasing me around a park that twists and turns and lunges and... oh phooey I'm dizzy...

It's really a matter of when the park was dedicated which seems to be on the 17th. If Disneyland celebrates on the 17th then it would seem the matter is decided. Though maybe if we took it from a culinary perspective and said the 17th was a soft opening... but that will open a whole other can or stink wormies.

Re: Happy 53rd "Re-Dedication" Day - July 17th, 2008

Originally Posted by fo'c's'le swab

The public opening of DL on the 17th was anything but public. Call it the 17th or 18th, I suppose it makes little difference to most, but the DL I can walk up to and gain admission to without prior invitation was born on the 18th. I think this is Darkbeer's point, and a relatively sound position to defend.

I can see your point and respect it, but I still think that the birth is when it is first presented, regardless of who it is presented to. It would be like a celebrity giving birth. They don't actually present the baby to the media/public right away, but that doesn't change the birthdate at all.

Disneyland still holds private invitation only events so it isn't like the 17th was a unique day in Disneyland history. Had it been so, I think the position that the Disneyland you can walk up to without an invitation would hold a lot more weight, though the park is not closed for a full day private event.

Even though the 17th was an invitation only day, there is a sound reason behind this. There were a huge number of camera crews and forklifts (carrying cameras) and something like 65 miles of heavy cable snakes all over the park on that day. The public was kept out so that the camera crews could actually operate. Keeping the public out wasn't so much of an "invitation only" decision as it was one of prudence to allow for the ABC crews to operate more easily. It was one of prudence.

So I guess there are equally valid arguments for both days being the birthday, both backed up by logical and sound reasoning. Personally, I choose to celebrate Disneyland's birth on the 17th since that was the day that people were allowed in, even if it was by invitation. That was the day that it was dedicated by Walt, that was the day the world watched in awe and then rushed to Anaheim to see it themselves.

On a side note, fo'c's'le mentioned Disneyland being used prior to the 17th-18th. That would be the 13th of July for Walt and Lilian's 30th anniversary. They held the party on the just barely finished Mark Twain.

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, As I foretold you, were all spirits and Are melted into air, into thin air: And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, The cloud-capp'd towers, the gorgeous palaces, The solemn temples, the great globe itself, Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff As dreams are made on, and our little life Is rounded with a sleep. mycroft16 on Twitter

Re: Happy 53rd "Re-Dedication" Day - July 17th, 2008

Originally Posted by almandot

Well I'm all for the birthday being july 17th. But the question I have for everybody is, when a ride soft opens for a month before its official "Opening Ceremony," when is the ride's birthday? If a movie is shown to the film academy, news reporters, and guests invited to preview the film, all prior to the official release date, when was the movie released?

Re: Happy 53rd "Re-Dedication" Day - July 17th, 2008

Originally Posted by mycroft16

I can see your point and respect it, but I still think that the birth is when it is first presented, regardless of who it is presented to. It would be like a celebrity giving birth. They don't actually present the baby to the media/public right away, but that doesn't change the birthdate at all.

I'm defending Darkbeer's point about the 18th in his absence--just keepin' his spot warm.
To expand upon your celebrity allusion: when a movie premieres for the celebrities, it does so before the general public--but the release date is officially when it opens to the public. Anything before is considered a private viewing. And speaking of private parties...

Disneyland still holds private invitation only events so it isn't like the 17th was a unique day in Disneyland history.

Considering it had no history before that date, I'd say it was unique. And Darkbeer would agree with you that "it isn't like the 17th was a unique day in Disneyland history." The 18th was.

Even though the 17th was an invitation only day, there is a sound reason behind this. There were a huge number of camera crews and forklifts (carrying cameras) and something like 65 miles of heavy cable snakes all over the park on that day. The public was kept out so that the camera crews could actually operate. Keeping the public out wasn't so much of an "invitation only" decision as it was one of prudence to allow for the ABC crews to operate more easily. It was one of prudence.

Red carpet events are the same situation, but they are not recognized as the official 'public release', because they are not open to the public, just like DL on the 17th.

So I guess there are equally valid arguments for both days being the birthday, both backed up by logical and sound reasoning.

I agree--no matter what others might try to sell you...ahem...Steve...

Personally, I choose to celebrate Disneyland's birth on the 17th since that was the day that people were allowed in, even if it was by invitation. That was the day that it was dedicated by Walt, that was the day the world watched in awe and then rushed to Anaheim to see it themselves.

Re: Happy 53rd "Re-Dedication" Day - July 17th, 2008

Originally Posted by fo'c's'le swab

I'm defending Darkbeer's point about the 18th in his absence--just keepin' his spot warm.

Aye aye Cap'n Seat Warmer!

It's odd how different industries have different ways of determining dates. Movies use the first public viewing as the release date. People use the actual date of birth regardless of who was invited, etc. I think we need to come up with an ISO http://www.iso.org/iso/home.htm) standard for dating things.

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, As I foretold you, were all spirits and Are melted into air, into thin air: And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, The cloud-capp'd towers, the gorgeous palaces, The solemn temples, the great globe itself, Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff As dreams are made on, and our little life Is rounded with a sleep. mycroft16 on Twitter

Re: Happy 53rd "Re-Dedication" Day - July 17th, 2008

I'm not so sure. Both days required entrance media. And by some estimates, there were 28,000 people in attendance on the 17th.

While you might like to think of those as 28,000 of Walt Disney's closest friends, I prefer to think of the majority of those folks--most of whom were everyday "civilians" with no connection to "the industry"--as "the public."

Re: Happy 53rd "Re-Dedication" Day - July 17th, 2008

Originally Posted by sir clinksalot

It's whatever day the company who owns it says it is.

Disney says it's the 17th, it's the 17th.

If you want to reduce it to something as simple as that I'd equally claim that since they celebrated it as July 18th while Walt was still alive, and he's the guy who created it, then it's July 18th and whatever Disney wants to claim now is irrelevant.

Re: Happy 53rd "Re-Dedication" Day - July 17th, 2008

Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano

I'm not so sure. Both days required entrance media. And by some estimates, there were 28,000 people in attendance on the 17th.

While you might like to think of those as 28,000 of Walt Disney's closest friends, I prefer to think of the majority of those folks--most of whom were everyday "civilians" with no connection to "the industry"--as "the public."

'Public', regardless of our own personal definitions, is the antithesis of 'private'. DL on the 17th was invitation only--a private affair. There seems little argument there. The point seems to surround which DL incarnation is being celebrated. If it is DL as an operational entity, the 17th is probably the best choice. But DL as a daily operating public attraction? The 18th seems a more appropriate option, and one that Disney has opted for in the past, though not currently.

Re: Happy 53rd "Re-Dedication" Day - July 17th, 2008

Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano

While you might like to think of those as 28,000 of Walt Disney's closest friends, I prefer to think of the majority of those folks--most of whom were everyday "civilians" with no connection to "the industry"--as "the public."

While 28,000 people entered the park on July 17th, only 15,000 were actually invited. Counterfeiting of opening day tickets was rampant and Disneyland staff was totally unprepared to address the problem and handle the crush of humanity.

So, DB, if you REALLY want to get technical, 13,000 party crashers made the July 17th opening a public event.

Re: Happy 53rd "Re-Dedication" Day - July 17th, 2008

Originally Posted by techskip

Veteran's Day was initially called Armistice Day, but you rarely hear it called that anymore. I'm sure if you looked up the history you could see when it officially switched over. I believe the same concept applies here. At some point in Disneyland's history the decision was made to switch the name, and the date. It does not negate the fact that July 18th was the official public opening. However the decision to celebrate early, and advertise it accordingly, is completely up to the company. The fact that most major anniversaries in recent memory all centered on the 17th indicates which date the company prefers. If we really wanted to we could continue to refer to Knott's Berry Farm as Knott's Berry Place, and ignore the decision that was made to rename it. A birthday is still a birthday, and the date itself may not change, but the decision to celebrate it is up to the company.