Yeah, having an insert, i'll never buy another insert again. Everything about it is more difficult, more expensive, less producing, and leaves you no fireplace when the power goes out taking away the option to burn wood.

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They are not for everyone and you are correct the nature of them is you have to cram everything from a free standing stove into the space of a fireplace. In doing that motors get smaller, fans are never as easy to access and are usually noisy. The pellet hopper is never as easy to fill....

The benifit is you utilize an existing fireplace that is a heat drag on the house. In my case because I didn't have a masonary fireplace I was able to design around the stove and build the zero clearance system to help me to reduce those limitations.

Yes it is still more expensive but here is the one feature that overrides all others. THE WIFE IS HAPPY. She likes the looks. she likes the heat. Even though I could have perhaps spent 1/2 as much on the install of a free standing unit and gotten the same heat, she only liked one of the free standing units it was one of those modern looking jobs.

In the end because of how it is "Built in" we added $10 K to the value of the house (based on the appraisal) for $4 K in materials and my work.

They are not for everyone and you are correct the nature of them is you have to cram everything from a free standing stove into the space of a fireplace. In doing that motors get smaller, fans are never as easy to access and are usually noisy. The pellet hopper is never as easy to fill....

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I don't agree. At least on the M55, the freestanding and insert use the exact same design & parts. Also the ones complaining the most about inserts are people who bought one that doesn't roll out on tracks like the M55 and Accentra. Yes, you do have to roll them out (takes me 5min to set up my rails and pull it out), but once out they are very easy to work on since you can get all the way around it. I think in a lot of cases EASIER to work on than a freestanding unit where you have a wall close to the back of the unit. This is especially true with corner installs. If you are going to complain about how difficult it is to pull out & work on an insert why wouldn't a person factor that in when purchasing and get one that slides/rolls out? This is why when I was shopping around for inserts, it came down inserts that roll/slide out. The Harman Accentra and the Enviro M55. Both great units. I think the Harman has a better thought out docking station since it also connects the OAK automatically. Enviro's docking station does not.

When i bought mine, I had no idea there was rails options, or that i'd ever have to move it. At the end of the day, sales men suck. I should have done more due dillignce, sure.... but a real dealer should have informed of these things.

And this is why i no longer give business to the dealer i bought from. Among other things that P'ed me off about them.

I don't agree. At least on the M55, the freestanding and insert use the exact same design & parts. Also the ones complaining the most about inserts are people who bought one that doesn't roll out on tracks like the M55 and Accentra. Yes, you do have to roll them out (takes me 5min to set up my rails and pull it out), but once out they are very easy to work on since you can get all the way around it. I think in a lot of cases EASIER to work on than a freestanding unit where you have a wall close to the back of the unit. This is especially true with corner installs. If you are going to complain about how difficult it is to pull out & work on an insert why wouldn't a person factor that in when purchasing and get one that slides/rolls out? This is why when I was shopping around for inserts, it came down inserts that roll/slide out. The Harman Accentra and the Enviro M55. Both great units. I think the Harman has a better thought out docking station since it also connects the OAK automatically. Enviro's docking station does not.

I do agree about the hopper not being as easy to fill.

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Do not know about the specifics of the Enviro design but Harmans are slightly different, Case in point ash pan.

While you can say it is easier to get around our inserts once we pull them out, We have to Pull them out. While the docking station is a great feature, we had to pay for the docking station. and our rails.... No matter how you get around it there are differences a it does take a little more to have an insert installed and it is more work to clean an insert as compared to a free standing unit In my case the difference in a p43 vs the accentra is a significant cost and there are some slight performance diferences. Same pellet my brother cleans his every 3 weeks I clean mine every week. His remains at higher effiency longer die to his more open and significantly different exhaust path.

When you have to design within a fireplace there are compromises and we recognise them and for those of us who understand that we accept them but they are there.

When i bought mine, I had no idea there was rails options, or that i'd ever have to move it. At the end of the day, sales men suck. I should have done more due dillignce, sure.... but a real dealer should have informed of these things.

And this is why i no longer give business to the dealer i bought from. Among other things that P'ed me off about them.

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Brian, Sorry you had to deal with that, many dealers do not tell you that you need to change the oil in your car either or that you need to pull the lint out of your drier or that TV needs a HDMI cable....

I agree dealers SHOULD tell you that there is more Maint on an insert but it is on us to ask too....

When i bought mine, I had no idea there was rails options, or that i'd ever have to move it. At the end of the day, sales men suck. I should have done more due dillignce, sure.... but a real dealer should have informed of these things.

And this is why i no longer give business to the dealer i bought from. Among other things that P'ed me off about them.

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I wholeheartedly agree, I was disgusted with how little the salespeople in pretty much every stove shop around here. I was going in and asking all kinds of questions that they had no clue about. You would think they would know more since they are in the industry. A guy like me shouldn't be able to walk in the door with an evening of internet research and know more than the salesman. One guy couldn't even get the burn pot parts back in an Accentra after we took it apart to look at the heat exchanger. I actually have had thoughts of starting my own stove shop as I think there is a real need for honest and knowledgeable people in this area. I was being a little too harsh on you (and others) with my comments above. I realize not everybody is like me in that I obsess over any new purchase, right down to what flashlight to buy. Just spent about a week of internet research before I finally settled on the "perfect" flashlight...yeah right ;-). Similarly, I did A TON of research before I finally settled on my stove. I think the stove shops were probably secretly saying "this guy again?" after I would show up and look at various stoves for the 3rd time.

If your house is so tight that it has humidity probs in winter the negative pressure created by NOT having an oak CAN be beneficial in that it dries out the house. This prob does not apply to most situations.

Do not know about the specifics of the Enviro design but Harmans are slightly different, Case in point ash pan.

While you can say it is easier to get around our inserts once we pull them out, We have to Pull them out. While the docking station is a great feature, we had to pay for the docking station. and our rails.... No matter how you get around it there are differences a it does take a little more to have an insert installed and it is more work to clean an insert as compared to a free standing unit In my case the difference in a p43 vs the accentra is a significant cost and there are some slight performance diferences. Same pellet my brother cleans his every 3 weeks I clean mine every week. His remains at higher effiency longer die to his more open and significantly different exhaust path.

When you have to design within a fireplace there are compromises and we recognise them and for those of us who understand that we accept them but they are there.

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What I meant is the "engine" or main stove (blowers, motors, etc.) are the same between the Enviro M55 freestanding and the insert. The exhaust is slightly different, but as far as I know, doesn't affect the performance of the stove. So Enviro didn't have to go with smaller motors, different blowers and etc between the freestanding and insert. That is what you were saying earlier and I wanted to say that is not correct for every mfr.

The OAK on my Mt Vernon simply goes out the back of the chase. There can't be more than three feet of corrugated 3" tube, an end cap and the adapter. I think the dealer charged me $150 for materials and some token for the increased install time.