Payton, Williams can appeal, but should they?

Posted by Mike Florio on March 22, 2012, 12:54 PM EST

AP

A question many of you have asked over the past 24 hours relates to the question of whether Saints coach Sean Payton, Saints G.M. Mickey Loomis, Saints assistant head coach/linebackers coach Joe Vitt, and former Saints defensive coordinator Gregg Williams have the ability to appeal the penalties imposed on them as a result of the three-year bounty system maintained by the team.

The easy answer is that they can.

The tougher question is whether they should.

For starters, NFL spokesman Greg Aiello tells PFT that any appeal will be heard by the Commissioner, pursuant to the NFL’s Constitution and Bylaws. And based on the Commissioner’s attitude as evidenced by his Wednesday media tour, he likely won’t be changing his mind.

More importantly, appealing the punishment doesn’t mesh with the repeated acceptance of “full responsibility” by Williams and, separately, by Payton and Loomis.

After being whacked hard by the league and saying all the right things (after months of lying), any goodwill the men have created will be squandered if they now try to fight the sanctions.

So, yes, they can fight. But any unlikely partial victory they secure via a reduction of the punishment will be outweighed by the style points they’d lose via the perception that they really don’t accept full responsibility.

what i want to know is, how does mickey loomis still have a job? tom benson should’ve fired loomis for insubordination after he continued to allow the bounty system when he was ordered to put an end to it and then he lied to benson about it. then, he ended up screwing with drew brees’ contract?! moreover, why is loomis only getting a 6 game suspension when payton is gone for the whole year? isn’t loomis more culpable than payton as the GM??

sterilizecromartie says:Mar 22, 2012 1:02 PM

“More importantly, appealing the punishment doesn’t mesh with the repeated acceptance of “full responsibility” by Williams and, separately, by Payton and Loomis.”
——–
Uh, sure it does. I could take full responsibility for jaywalking. It doesn’t mean that I shouldn’t appeal a sentence that puts me in jail for a year because of it.

the nfl hands out these suspensions like its nothing. you know what it does to the city of new orleans? when you forcibly take away a superbowl winning coach for an entire season plus future high round draft picks (trade value), your putting a season, that would probably have ended 13-3 or 12-4, in jeopardy of finishing below that.. possibly missing the playoffs. the effect of that is tremendous. sports bars, local fan shops, etc etc will lose millions collectively if they dont make the playoffs. but typical goodell trying to pretty up his own image without thinking past his mirror

The many, many complaints over the Patriots the last few days have finally convinced me. Filming another team IS the exact same thing as paying people to physically harm others in an effort to end their career! Thanks for your many posts fans.

randomguy9999 says:Mar 22, 2012 1:15 PM

it’s foolish to appeal…. they have both admitted what they did….

why would they appeal? to give Goodell a talking to? something tells me that might not be the best thing to do.

“I deeply regret the situation that I have helped cause for the New Orleans Saints franchise and the National Football League.

The actions that our staff and players engaged in, and moreover my own attempt to cover up our activities, have tarnished the image of the New Orleans Saints, the NFL, and most importantly the game that I love. I apologize to Mr. Benson and to all New Orleans Saints fans for violating your trust and creating this hardship.

It is important to note that, in my opinion, this does not invalidate our franchise’s Super Bowl victory, as these practices took place over multiple years. Rather, it is important for me to acknowledge that our actions were wrong and jeopardized the well-being of other NFL players. Further, my personal dishonesty in this matter is deplorable, and I accept the judgment of the Commissioner.

Beyond this, I recognize that my actions do not meet any acceptable standard of professional conduct. As of this morning, I have offered Mr. Benson my resignation as head Coach of the New Orleans Saints, and he has accepted. It is my hope that my departure from this franchise can help the New Orleans Saints move past this episode and focus fully on the pursuit of being a perennial championship contender. Again, I apologize for my actions and with the New Orleans Saints and their fans well.”

Of course that would require Coach Payton to have more integrity than he has ego, which I seriously doubt. If I am Benson, I fire this guy. Now.

sb139422 says:
Mar 22, 2012 1:10 PM
——————————————
Yes, and putting people in prison for the crimes they commit affect their families, and their victims families. But, when the crime has been comitted, and the culprit has been identified, then there must be punishments. If the city of New Orleans is not pleased with this, then perhaps the bar owners and others losing money this season should sue the guilty parties, which are all employed by the Saints. Blaming Roger Goodell is like blaming the Judge that sentences the guilty.

It would be better for Payton to double-down on contrition. He should 1) volunteer to make a video that is shown to all NFL players and coaches (as should Williams) outlining what they did, stating they attempted to cover it up, and apologizing for their actions; 2) Spend the year as a “Sabbatical” in contributing to the community of New Orleans.

I think Loomis should have received a 1 year suspension too – but funny, Loomis gets to vote on Goddell’s contract. Payton or Williams don’t. Hmmm….

Williams definitely SHOULD NOT appeal because his suspension is indefinite. If he appeals now it will hurt him in the reinstatement process. Payton has zero to lose by appealing and if he thinks he has a case by NFL rules, he should absolutely appeal.

Wow Bellicheck cheats & don’t get suspended wins 16 games & goes to the Super Bowl. Ray Lewis, Big Ben,Mike Vick, Plaxico, Donte Stallworth all have done WAYYYY worst & wasn’t penalized the same. I believe Saints should be punished but NOT to the detriment of a loosing season imposed by Lord Goddell. The Saints didn’t TAKE out ANY players do u think $1,000 incentive makes a difference to a guy getting a $100,000 on Monday?! Let’s get it str8 the nfl is covering their asses because of the lawsuits by retired players so in an attempt to make it look like they are trying to clean up the game they are going to come down hard on the New Orleans Saints. Appeal Sean Payton, appeal.

The issue isn’t just the bounty program, it’s that the NFL spoke to them about it … they lied about it’s existence … and then they continued the bounty program knowing that it had drawn attention from the league offices.

It’s sort of like asking a kid if he knows who is tagging a wall – having the kid deny it, and then 10 minutes later catching the kid with the spray paint in hand tagging a wall. Half the crime is the stupidity of getting caught when you know they’re watching you.

People this stupid shouldn’t be running a business organization!

@cserisey — yeah, I am really, really old! Gotta wonder if Payton, Williams, Loomis, and Vitt are reminding each other that it wasn’t over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor … and it ain’t over now.

The one issue I have not seen discussed in this mess is its relevance to the relationship between Goodell and the players. Players have been complaining that the commissioner is too arbitrary and too harsh in the penalties levied against player infractions.

Any complaints about the harsh treatment of players by the commissioner will not resonate quite as loudly when one compares them to the penalties in this case.

They should have suspened the hole dam team.Then every Sunday line them up on the street and the fans can walk by and piss on them

bigmike7914 says:Mar 22, 2012 1:31 PM

I understand the reason for slamming the hammer on these guys they sat in front of the league and lied about the whole thing basically playing with the intelligence of the commissioner , but I do challenge the league to go back and watch tape and check the personal foul numbers on the Saints since Williams has been the DC and after that make a case and determine the length of the suspensions, if you want to get them on giving extra money to players that is off the books then fine, but to suspend them because you think they are ruining the integrity of the game is ridiculous, in my opinion the NFL should put warning advertisements up before and after every game like they do with copyrighting.

If Gregg Williams appeals, the rest of the league will see him for the jackass that he really is. The Buffalo Bills had just gone 8-8 in 2002 after a few down years and really looked like they were on the move to improve… That is the only reason Williams played out his 3rd year. Inspite of the outlook (which never came to fruition), He was inches away from being fired after 2 years. There were many rumors as to why but we all just put it on as ralph wilson being cheap (which we all agree he is)..

Fast forward a few years as he becomes the D. coach for the Redskins, he has a stipulation put into his contract that when Joe Gibbs leaves the redskins, he gets a 1Million bonus if not named head coach as Gibbs replacement. he interviewed 3 times for the job and didnt get it…
now this in New Orleans… good d coach yes, but why would anybody want him on their organization any more… he is a headache…

jimnsota says:Mar 22, 2012 1:36 PM

Be very very careful next step would be double secret probation.

oldschoolomen says:Mar 22, 2012 1:36 PM

Based on the comments, I feel like one of the only people that think the suspensions were ridiculously harsh, send zero message at all except that Roger Goodell took this personally, and that the bounty thing in general is severely overrated.

I say appeal it. Payton should be suspended no more than 8 games, Williams a year.

yooperman says:Mar 22, 2012 1:37 PM

They better forget about appeals and start working on thier criminal and civil cases. I do believe there are laws about paying to injure people. And don’t forget about the taxes due.

It’s funny how most of the negative comments are from posters who teams have been whipped up by the Saints the last few years. With or without Payton they are still a VERY talented team with more then enough capable coaches on the staff to make up for Payton. They again will do a lot of the butt whipping again this season and maybe even more so. It should be interesting this season.

Yes, they should appeal. This thing is gotten so out on control. I’m still trying to find all the poor souls who’s careers were ended by greg williams defenses? I’d then like to compare those numbers against the all the other 31 NFL teams and see how much impact his system had terminating other teams players. How about one of you PFT genius do that calculation. This fine was handed out as precedent for the NFL to protect themselves in court against head injury cases end of story.

I know I’m now in the minority in today’s pansy society but playing football can and should continue to be hazardous to your health. It’s the reason it’s so damn exciting and moves a nation to watch it religously! It’s also why those brave souls who play it should be paid millions!

broncobrewer says:Mar 22, 2012 1:45 PM

This is the one case I say sue. And shouldn’t the coaches union be appealing for them? Plus wouldn’t the appeal have to be heard by a third party? The commish is too inconsistent with his punishments

jgedgar70 says:Mar 22, 2012 1:45 PM

cserisey says:
Mar 22, 2012 1:12 PM
Put ‘em on ‘double secret probation” If you get that joke, you are really old
__________

Take it easy, man. I don’t think 42 is all that old. I have that move on DVD. Classic guy movie.

As for the possibility of appeals, I can see Payton appealing on the basis of inconsistency. Since Williams was the one that orchestrated and administered the program (with a great assist from Vilma), I can understand why Payton would wonder why he gets a year, while Vitt gets 6 games and Loomis gets 8. Those 3 should have the same length of suspension.

Williams should never be allowed to hold a football coaching positiion, on any level, in any state, for life. It is beyond sickening and reprehensible to offer financial incentives to injure people to the point that they can’t walk off the field under their own power.

joetoronto says:Mar 22, 2012 1:46 PM

Take it from a decades long Raider fan who knows, it’s not worth it.

You’ll be paying till the end of time with mysterious penalties.

franknunley57 says:Mar 22, 2012 1:48 PM

Old School- PressDemocrat.com
Sean Payton: good coach, scab player
Tuesday, January 26, 2010 at 12:34 by OldSchool

Sure, Sean Payton has been a pretty good NFL coach, and now he has the New Orleans Saints in their first Super Bowl.

But I remember when I first became aware of Sean Payton. He was a scab who crossed the players’ picket lines in the 1987 strike, got himself on the Chicago Bears roster and he was on TV debating Raiders tight end Todd Christensen on the legitimacy, or lack thereof, of scab players.
For the record, Payton completed 8 of 23 passes with no TDs and one interception for the Bears in 1987, his only season as a “player” in the NFL.

I can’t wait until Sean Payton gets busted for making hands-on coaching decisions with The Saints during his suspension.

sterilizecromartie says:Mar 22, 2012 1:58 PM

oldschoolomen says:
Mar 22, 2012 1:36 PM
Based on the comments, I feel like one of the only people that think the suspensions were ridiculously harsh, send zero message at all except that Roger Goodell took this personally, and that the bounty thing in general is severely overrated.
——–
Dude, save it. I have been trying to convince everyone of that since this whole thing started. It only leads to a million thumbs down and a whole bunch of comments like “Oh so you think players acting as paid assassins on the football field isn’t a big deal?!?! They should be in jail!!!”

packfaninchitown says:Mar 22, 2012 2:00 PM

sb139422 says:

the nfl hands out these suspensions like its nothing. you know what it does to the city of new orleans?
You Saints fans just don’t get it. Do you realize what this has done to the City of New Orleans? Your team is forever tarnished because of this and will not get past it for years, if even then.

Your Super Trophy victory will forever have a notation next to it saying “only won because this team cheated.”

Sean Payton is an embarrassment in every sense of the word, he personally robbed a once proud and great franchise of it’s respect, it’s dignity and worst of all it’s reputation.

Yet the fans and players squeal like angry children about how mean the Commissioner’s too-lenient punishment was. You remind us of all the Penn State kids who rallied around their coach because he protected a pedophile…

tombrokaw says:Mar 22, 2012 2:07 PM

The outrage from the nitwit brigade is amusing.

There is no system of bounty related violence the Saints could perpetrate that would trump the inherent violence of professional football.

When gladiators get a little “too” violent the gladiators are not at fault. It’s the society that likes watching gladiator matches that’s responsible.

Those of us who profit or derive entertainment have no moral high ground. All of you pretending to have said ground are flirting with being classified as legally retarded.

davidhuber10 says:Mar 22, 2012 2:10 PM

That would do absolutely nothing the commissioner handle all the appeals the process

anarchopurplism says:Mar 22, 2012 2:14 PM

Payton should seriously consider:
-Release a contrite statement
-Resign
-Go back to TX & be with his family
-Wait for the Cowboys to call

ejmat2 says:Mar 22, 2012 2:16 PM

There should be NO appeal. After all didn’t the Saints just release a statement saying they accept FULL RESPONSIBILITY? By appealing it would show the rest of us they are full of crap.

Does Loomis’ suspension start on Aril 1st like Payton’s? Will he be allowed to oversee their draft?
________________________________
No, Loomis’ suspension is for the first 8 games. It doesn’t start until the beginning of the season or right before it. He is free to participate in the draft and can continue signing players up until that point.

Has Roger Goodall come out and said he plans to award the two draft picks the Saints lost to the Patriots yet?

franknunley57 says:Mar 22, 2012 2:27 PM

So if “PressDemocrat.com” calls sean payton a scab it’s ok & you leave the post up but if someone else says sean payton is a scab you delete it. ok, got it.

ravensgrl says:Mar 22, 2012 2:28 PM

jgedgar70 says:
Mar 22, 2012 1:45 PM

As for the possibility of appeals, I can see Payton appealing on the basis of inconsistency. Since Williams was the one that orchestrated and administered the program (with a great assist from Vilma), I can understand why Payton would wonder why he gets a year, while Vitt gets 6 games and Loomis gets 8. Those 3 should have the same length of suspension.
________
Williams may have orchestrated and organized the program, but Payton had the authority and responsibility to stop it, as directed by his boss (the owner) and the NFL. Instead, he chose to ignore that directive.

Steeler's Will says:Mar 22, 2012 2:29 PM

It’s a waste of time to appeal, but I guess it can’t hurt to try.

melikefootball says:Mar 22, 2012 3:07 PM

More and more that comes out they should be happy where they stand. Payton had already said he was sorry but took full responability for this. Don’t cry over spilled milk now.

Yeah, lets appeal to the exact person who gave us the penalty in the first place, that should work out well

Unless they have some evidence that previous evidence was falsified (which they don’t, or they wouldn’t of already admitted to it), it would be a pointless exercise which resulted in nothing but attorney fees for the newely 8 million dollars poorer Peyton

bonniebengal says:Mar 22, 2012 3:11 PM

Sorry but they should be thanking their lucky stars they haven’t been arrested yet. Paying someone to injure another person is a crime. Ask Tonya Harding. People went to jail over that. And wait til the lawsuits start coming in from everyone who was injured under this regime. Payton thinks he’s lost 8 million. It’s gonna be more than that. I expect every player who has been injured by a Saints player during this regime is lawyering up as we speak.

so i keep seeing this get put up here in comments that the sb win the saints had is tainted. Especially the win against the vikings. Thats crap. The Saints didnt cause Farve or Warner to retire. Both were already at the end of their careers anyway. One more question. How many players in either one of those games was injured by the Saints defense?

ajw4277 says:Mar 22, 2012 3:17 PM

If it was your team that got penalized like that over that BS you would not be saying it wasn’t harsh enough! That was ridiculous! What N.E. was way worse. Quit hating on N.O. Your favorite team was probably using the system too, they just didn’t get ratted out yet.

sterilizecromartie says:Mar 22, 2012 3:40 PM

packfaninchitown says:

Your Super Trophy victory will forever have a notation next to it saying “only won because this team cheated.”
——–
How exactly did they cheat?