Some of the attributes should be on most cache listings. The handicap accessible icon is just a thoughtful thing to do. Other attributes that warn of hazards, like poison ivy or thorns, can prevent a caching day from being ruined. While any concerns could be described in the cache listings, it's easier to just click on the attributes that are applicable. I don't see a downside to stating the attributes and it's good for the game. Groundspeak would never make it mandatory but I would personally encourage the practice as one of those things that's "the right thing to do!" Good question Paul.

hollora

06-26-2011, 09:21 AM

Using attributes has another advantage. You can search for caches in PQ's using attributes and also sort them in GSAK using the attributes.

JustPJ66

06-26-2011, 10:01 AM

I think they are VERY important but I do not think they should be mandatory. I do wish more people would utilize this helpful tool however.

brdad

06-26-2011, 11:40 AM

There are obvious advantages to having attributes, but I don't think they should be mandatory either. What I dislike most is when they are misused intentionally (such as using the scuba attribute to designate a power trail) or misused according to my interpretation of it. The "Available during Winter" attribute is one which seems way too open to interpretation. To me, it does not mean that the area the cache is located is open to people during Winter, it means you should be able to access the cache in Winter - which to me means it's most likely above the snow line. But I have seen several caches have this attribute and the cache is under a log on the ground. I have 3 caches on cliffs, I do not have the winter attribute set because I don't want people to think they are designed to be found in the snow. I also don't have the winter attribute set to no because if you really wanted to try to do them in Winter, the land is open for you to try. Unfortunately so many hiders interpret many of the attributes differently.

And for Winter, we also have the snowshoes and cross country skis attributes. Does that mean you need them or you can get to the area where the cache is using them? Does it mean the cache is not buried under 5 feet of snow?

So, no for mandatory, but I think clarification of the attributes would be great. And they should not be allowed to be misused.

JustPJ66

06-26-2011, 12:12 PM

perhaps a more definative explaination of just what geocaching.com powers that be say the attribute means would be in order. That way there would be less interpertation from the individual cache placer???

hollora

06-26-2011, 05:25 PM

perhaps a more definative explaination of just what geocaching.com powers that be say the attribute means would be in order. That way there would be less interpertation from the individual cache placer???

Well, how much more do you need? Each attribute has just a couple of relevant (as far as I can see) choices. Allowed/not allowed or non-relevant - required or not-required - Yes/no or non-relevant - Present/non-present or not relevant - Yes/no or not relevant (all depending on the attribute these are the choices) - seems pretty clear to me (as the choices of answer appear relevant to the attributes). Maybe I just assume to much - but I don't know how - if anyone chooses to use attributes you could accidently mess it up.

I love them and do my filters based on them.

JustPJ66

06-26-2011, 05:31 PM

Well, how much more do you need? Each attribute has just a couple of relevant (as far as I can see) choices. Allowed/not allowed or non-relevant - required or not-required - Yes/no or non-relevant - Present/non-present or not relevant - Yes/no or not relevant (all depending on the attribute these are the choices) - seems pretty clear to me (as the choices of answer appear relevant to the attributes). Maybe I just assume to much - but I don't know how - if anyone chooses to use attributes you could accidently mess it up.

I love them and do my filters based on them.

I was refering to the comment brdad made about different people looking at things like winter friendly differently...some think if the area is open in winter its winter friendly while to others it means it is above snow level. Perhaps is groundspeak left less to interpertation that wouldnt happen.

hollora

06-26-2011, 05:39 PM

I was refering to the comment brdad made about different people looking at things like winter friendly differently...some think if the area is open in winter its winter friendly while to others it means it is above snow level. Perhaps is groundspeak left less to interpertation that wouldnt happen.

That is one which might be misinterpreted...........we from snow country may have different ideas from those who may be from 'away'. I will never forget busting a LocNLock container which was entombed in the ice as I went to get it before a funeral. Yup, we were on our way to a funeral for a cacher, caching on the way down and I busted the container trying to get it out of the ice. Ah, did I know the attibutes - no - that wasn't even looked at - we were just trying to get the cache. Did we (that reference cause I was with some friends) make some life long friends - ah, sigh, yeah, for sure - the cache container issue was just a small piece of a total and very emotional day...................

Didn't look at the attributes that day - glad we didn't.............but I might say.........thinking that big picture through...........I probably would have tagged it winter accessible..........but..............because of unforeseen ice that year - because of ocean spray..........it surely wasn't.........

Now if you want proof - there are somewhere - some unbelievable photos of me trying to retrieve the cache.

Arributes are subject to a lot of interpretation and there is a lot to take into consideration as it is all considered. ;-)

JustKev

06-26-2011, 05:41 PM

I had thought about doing an article for the newsletter about this very thing. It would be so nice if you could count on a majority of caches in the area you want to go caching had accurate attributes. Whether or not dogs are allowed would be a prime example for Pam and I. We have two small breed dogs that will accompany us to just about every caching expedition we go on. We might attend an event where there aren't any provisions for dogs but we'd be much more likely to attend one where we could bring our little companions along with us. In the case of an "interpretation" of the attribute exists like with the winter friendly it might be wise to expand on the attribute in the body of the cache listing. Something like, "Winter friendly if the snow doesn't get over 36" deep at the cache location." or "Easily accessible by snowmobile or snowshoes or skis". Just something that lets someone who doesn't have access to the snowmobile and can't do long distances with the shoes or skis know whether or not they even want to attempt the cache.

brdad

06-26-2011, 06:23 PM

Looking at the list, the Winter ones do seem to be the most open to interpretation (I had forgotten snowmobiles). Unfortunately, the Winter attributes may be the most important for many Mainers.

Many of the others are more definite if properly tagged, like the dogs attribute. If it says yes to dogs, then the cache placer should be sure that they are, and if it says no, it should be a definite no.

pm28570

06-26-2011, 08:09 PM

Interesting responses...to the point of almost going off track ;). Thanks for the discussion. Attributes are an important part and for the life of me, cannot understand why a cache placer does not list them. It's not that hard to do. While open to some translation, most symbols are easily understood. Yes/No. Park/No Park. Kids/No Kids. 24/7 or daytime. Etc etc. Once again, I'll beat the drum for being a responsible cacher: List attributes. And in closing, Kevin....do the article, might reach members who do not generally check in.

Almost forgot....my opinion? Mandatory.

brdad

06-27-2011, 05:38 AM

The only reason I see for not providing some attributes would be a cache where you do not want to reveal much, but these would most likely have a high difficulty rating and probably be of the mystery/puzzle variety.

So we know attributes won't be made mandatory anytime soon (with or without this 'vote')... And it seems telling a cache owner his cache should have an attribute added or removed may offend them... It would seem the best way to get more attributes on caches would be to promote their (correct) use before they place caches. How do we do that?

Where's that article? :rolleyes:

dubord207

06-27-2011, 07:56 PM

Maybe there needs to be classes and then a "certification" after passing the class that those of us who add attributes to our cache listings know the plain meaning of the attributes. Here's a question from the test: The dog attribute means: A, I have a dog. B, I have a good dog. C my dog ate my homework. D My dog knows how to spell, finds half the caches I look for and always barks a "thank you" after a successful find.

Another one to get your masters degree: Winter friendly means: A, this cache would be a hit in Arizona or Florida; B Winter friendly is an oxymoron; C Winter friendly means my Saab has snow tires; or D Any cache located 2.3 feet above the mean average of snowfall in Maine over the past 44 years divided by the cache terrain rating plus 3.

I like attributes and so does Groundspeak now that we can get them off a cache listing on our units. It's the right thing to do for your fellow cachers!

dufzor

07-01-2011, 01:50 AM

Maybe there needs to be classes and then a "certification" after passing the class that those of us who add attributes to our cache listings know the plain meaning of the attributes. Here's a question from the test: The dog attribute means: A, I have a dog. B, I have a good dog. C my dog ate my homework. D My dog knows how to spell, finds half the caches I look for and always barks a "thank you" after a successful find.

Another one to get your masters degree: Winter friendly means: A, this cache would be a hit in Arizona or Florida; B Winter friendly is an oxymoron; C Winter friendly means my Saab has snow tires; or D Any cache located 2.3 feet above the mean average of snowfall in Maine over the past 44 years divided by the cache terrain rating plus 3.

I like attributes and so does Groundspeak now that we can get them off a cache listing on our units. It's the right thing to do for your fellow cachers!
I truely think you are on to something? Whats the phone number of the admissions office???

JustKev

07-01-2011, 03:37 AM

C Winter friendly means my Saab has snow tires

Come on, Dan, you know more than just doctors and lawyers cache. You left out "I put 4 used tires on that have more than 1/4 tread left" for winter friendly.

dubord207

07-01-2011, 05:44 AM

LMAO on that one Kev! Heard Saab actually is projected to stop production within the next 3 years although I think they're too good a car for that. What the heck were you doing up at 3:37?

Come on, Dan, you know more than just doctors and lawyers cache. You left out "I put 4 used tires on that have more than 1/4 tread left" for winter friendly.