Yes, the underused tactic I'm talking about is Probes and Pylons. It can also be known as Overlords and Drones, or SCVs and Supply Depots. You make them and you improve!

Okay it's not quite as simple as just making them and improving, but the simplicity of the idea I'd like to spur discussion about is quite interesting. I also have a video that everyone should take a look at linked below that attempts to support my argued end of the discussion.

IDEA: Players in lower leagues undervalue what is truly important, and focus on smaller details that are low priority for the circumstances in which they reside.

I'll propose that there are three things a player that who is not in Master's league fails to achieve*; constant worker production, no supply blocks, spending of resources. It's simple: you get a lot of workers to get a lot of money, and then you spend that money on a big army. But, what is undervalued here is how much bigger this army really is, and how much your play is affected by very simple fundamentals.

*I'd actually say that most all players on NA don't do these things very well, including those GM players, but that's a little off-topic

I propose that: Down in any league that is not Masters, you can win most of your games by ensuring that there are no flaws in the process of getting your income and spending your income. You must not lay a building down late. You must not lay extra pylons down when you don't need them. You must lay tech structures at appropriate times. You must maintain solid worker production. Your resources must be constantly spent. You must have a basic grasp of what unit composition to acquire.

Luckily all of the "complicated" or "advanced" things from the previous paragraph, such as when to place what structures or what composition to get and when are answered by better players. You can ask for advice on TL, you can look for replays, and you can look for VODs if you are unsure of anything. All you really need to figure out on your own is how to use your mouse and keyboard efficiently to ensure that you can make your probes and pylons.

I've recorded a VOD of myself playing on a Gold league account against a few people as Protoss. I also play a game as Terran (I suck at Terran). I still win because I had so much more resources than both of my opponents. This VOD was recorded because I was talking to someone on Skype, and they said:

Guy on Skype said:[4:08:14 PM] Guy: Sigh.[4:08:14 PM] Guy: People say that [I should just make probes and pylons].[4:08:16 PM] Guy: But then I just die to shit[4:08:21 PM] Guy: like really stupid shit

Well if you focus on the priorities and play a very safe and standard game, how can you die to stupid shit? You'll have so much shit you can't possibly die to stupid shit.

Here's a small list of what let me win my matches so convincingly in the Gold league (in order of most important to least):

Decision making (not throwing units away or making blind movements or unnecessary risks)

Take note that I have an advantage that should be stroven for by lower league participants: mechanics. As defined in my old How To Improve Efficiently, mechanics is the ability to perform necessary actions in order to play the game in the way desired by the player. I use mechanical skills such as constantly hotkeying my army and unit production facilities (robo, warpgates, nexus). I have an observer hotkeyed when I want one on the field. I had a Warp Prism hotkeyed at one point. I utilize fkeys for screen positions over my bases so I can easily bounce between them and macro properly. I watched the minimap diligently and spot a Nydus worm at one point. These mechanics are really the catch of this whole idea: in order to make your probes and pylons you need to be able to make your probes and pylons. It sounds redundant I know, but it's overlooked.

SMALLER DETAILS: I mentioned earlier when I proposed my idea that players in lower leagues focus on [relatively] unimportant details instead of the higher priority ones. I myself have hundreds and hundreds of hours of coaching with many different players in all the various leagues. It's my professional opinion that most players don't value their probes and pylons like they should. Although, setting aside my professional opinion for discussion, I'd venture a guess that players often think of minute details. Here are some examples of what students think about before I have taught them anything:

Does chargelot/archon really work in PvX? Don't the Archons just smash force fields making your army weaker?

Do you think that I should be shift clicking my force fields, or casting each one individually?

What is your hotkey setup? Do you think placing your Colossus to key closer to the left side of the keyboard is a good idea?

Do you ever purchase Hallucination in order to do some sort of timing attack?

Are Warp Prisms really the answer to <insert strategy or strategic problem>?

What is the counter to <insert unit>?

These are just the questions people ask me during coaching. What about what people actually think about when they lose? "He played like a faggot" - one of my opponents actually called me a faggot because I beat him so badly in the VOD. What would happen if he admit he can't make probes and pylons like I can? Would he be more likely to improve if he did realize this?; "If I didn't play such faggots I'd be higher on ladder"; "I lost because of bad luck"; "I can't believe he won because <insert unit/strategy> is imbalanced"; "That's so imba"; "I have no way of scouting"; "I would have won if I just made this one small change"; all of these sorts of thoughts distract from the true importance: Probes and Pylons. Don't over-complicate it! You won't need to focus on minute details until other larger more important things are taken care of.

So what do you think? Is this whole Probes and Pylons idea really true? Or is it garbage that you can just focus on these two things while letting better players decide on what strategies to use? Can a lower league player really take on this form of play and win more games due to true improvement?INTERESTING QUOTES:

On April 06 2012 10:35 memcpy wrote:Another thing I think you should mention is the importance of keeping up on production. Even with a small worker count I see lower level players banking more money than their entire army is worth. I'm guessing this has to do with the stigma on queuing units and the ideal of copying pro players with their perfect mechanics and minimum production facilities.

I often refuse to throw down a macro hatch when I float resources due to a missed larva inject because it seems like a waste of money. However, building an additional hatchery could mean winning the game due to the extra larva and extra zerglings/drones I could be making.

Nearly all players have macro issues, even pros, and your PERSONAL macro capabilities should be taken into account when deciding how many buildings to produce.

A few good examples of pros who benefit from "differing" from standard macro practices:HuK - If you watch his stream I guarantee you have seen the mass warpgate spam. Late game he will throw down upwards of 10 additional gateways once his money floats too high.

Stephano - Building mass ling is one of hardest things to do because it requires so much larva and missing a single inject can destroy you. I've seen Stephano throw down a macro hatch for every 2 or so bases when going his mass ling style.

oGsTOP - He queues workers. Because of this, he averages one of the highest worker counts of any Terran in GSL. It's common to see a game of his where his worker count gets around 70-80 by the 15 min mark.

On April 06 2012 11:39 Kambing wrote:For many people, macro is one of those things that falls under the Dunning-Kruger effect. The problem is making people aware of how important macro is and then giving them the proper training and exercises so that they can measure their progress. Usually the people that are resistant to that kind of advice don't know how a game feels when you do have good macro or they don't know how to concretely improve that aspect of their play.

On April 06 2012 16:49 Belial88 wrote:Generally, anytime someone is arguing with a high masters/blue, especially on something big, it's because they have no fucking clue what they are talking about (hey, I've been guilty of it many times, and every time, I was completely wrong).

I don't think these lower level people realize just how much better someone a league up is, or a high masters is, then them. You won't have a single high level player saying macro isn't the absolute most important thing in the game.

So quit arguing with a high masters blue poster here. He really knows his shit, you don't. To think that you would know more about this game, with the less than 1,000 games you've played, less than 100 hours logged on playing starcraft ever in your life, against someone with 10,000+ games played with over 1,000+ hours logged in, who's followed starcraft for about 8 years longer than you have, is just ridiculous.

Like you caught something he didn't get. It's like trying to tell Michael Jordan on the nuances of basketball. Holy shit.

"Probes and Pylons" is so vague. Giving lower level players staggered targets to aim for (example: consistently hit a 4gate by 6:00, then consistently hit a 6gate by 9:00 etc.) will help them improve much faster than telling them "Probes and Pylons".

EDIT:

At least that was my experience when I first started playing Protoss. I learnt much faster by trying to execute certain all-ins by X:XX than I did by trying to go for long-games every time I played. I maintain that you're not ready for 2base play until you can 4gate, and that you're not ready for 3base play until you can 2base Immortal or 2base 7gate +2 Blink all-in.

EU High Masters Protoss ~ Grubby: "I'd rather play a strategy that is worse, but that I feel confident in, than play the better strategy, not really feeling it and not being 100% behind it" ~ Sad Zealot Fan </3

100% completely disagree and i have studied low level play for months of my life

User was warned for this post

edit: whatever , i Would say that in lower leagues, the most important thing is "to have a plan" as long as you have a plan you are going to be OK for now. if your plan is Ultras, go ultras. you might die 50% of the time to the first 5 marines your opponent sends at you, but you might also beat the other 50% that turtled off 2 bases to 3/3 reapers. If your plan is DT, go DTs. maybe in bronze league your opponent forgot to get an orbital so they don't have any way of scanning you. If your plan is bunker rush with 4 marines and all of your scvs, it just might work. 4gate for days if that's how you want to get better, i don't care. in lower leagues, everything goes.

So many times I feel that lower level players don't have a sense of what to DO . they get that they should be building econ and stuff, but they never know when to attack or how to defend. In lower leagues, i feel that you just need to do something and then see what happens. and by that point players can figure it out. as long as they understand this == every time you econ instead of building units, your macro will be better later -- , combine that with a solid , if not random plan, and you can probably get out of silver.

Source: working from low to high gold, thoroughly discussing strategy with my friend every day as he moved from low silver (just got the game) to near platinum, reading the blogs by that guy who worker rushes every game , being a caster, playing 2v2 with my friends who are bronze but also platinum , that page that discussed what you needed to get better at as you got higher in leagues, the last one being micro or something , 100s of 2v2 games from low to high gold as random. watching MKP, playing every race, being bad on my own, getting better, reading TL every day, not reading /r/starcraft.

seriously everyone in all of the TL strategy forum is turning into idra - "oh if i just macro the best i'll win automatically" , "oh i just have to hit my drone number as fast as possible and then nothing can go wrong" . SORRY If i just offended you with that statement.

On April 06 2012 09:46 TheNessman wrote:100% completely disagree and i have studied low level play for months of my life

hopefully trolling. -_-

well put! i agree.

I think that while the mantra can (and should) be "Probes and Pylons!", the REST of the focus should be on making units and making SURE you don't die to "stupid shit." You can make all the probes/pylons you want, but if no units/building placement/defensive structures exist, you'll die.

I disagree with sated. Your completely missing the point of the guide. He is saying that the things you need to work on the most are these key things. And when I was first learning, not only did I not know specific build orders, I didn't execute allins every game, I just played with the metagame and through the metagame and knowing what was SUPPOSED to be good. I became much better. I never started executing 4gates. Then 2 base allins, etc. I looked at the current metagame and what was considered "solid play" and played like that. Sure executing a 4 gate properly will build some decent mechanics. But how can you possibly say that that will build more mechanics than something else. Are you saying that if a toss 3 gate expands and is practicing like that that he will not improve? And that the only way to improve is to revert to 4gating? Cause that is what it sounds like your suggesting.

The OP is suggesting that the importance of playing in these lower leagues is really stressed that they CANNOT macro properly, and they need to learn to. Not to just start executing allins. Like I said, learning a well timed 4 gate WILL help your mechanics somewhat in these lower leagues. But so will executing a 1 gate expand into "the metagame" vs Terran, etc. In fact the reason I think I learned so quickly was BECAUSE I didn't do such silly allins every game, and my pride for wanting to play a solid game allowed me to advance my ability to macro much quicker.

Another thing I think you should mention is the importance of keeping up on production. Even with a small worker count I see lower level players banking more money than their entire army is worth. I'm guessing this has to do with the stigma on queuing units and the ideal of copying pro players with their perfect mechanics and minimum production facilities.

I often refuse to throw down a macro hatch when I float resources due to a missed larva inject because it seems like a waste of money. However, building an additional hatchery could mean winning the game due to the extra larva and extra zerglings/drones I could be making.

Nearly all players have macro issues, even pros, and your PERSONAL macro capabilities should be taken into account when deciding how many buildings to produce.

A few good examples of pros who benefit from "differing" from standard macro practices:HuK - If you watch his stream I guarantee you have seen the mass warpgate spam. Late game he will throw down upwards of 10 additional gateways once his money floats too high.

Stephano - Building mass ling is one of hardest things to do because it requires so much larva and missing a single inject can destroy you. I've seen Stephano throw down a macro hatch for every 2 or so bases when going his mass ling style.

oGsTOP - He queues workers. Because of this, he averages one of the highest worker counts of any Terran in GSL. It's common to see a game of his where his worker count gets around 70-80 by the 15 min mark.

I didn't see who the author was, and I came by here to say that the underused tactics was "Macro". Then I realized it was CecilSunkere, and this article is awesome, and he's saying quite well what I was going to say to troll. This is really what got me to become a better player.

And for those skeptics among you, consider the following: most high league players think that macro is the most important thing, and most low league players disagree.

However I still won due to good mechanics of spending my money. Crisis management is about staying cool. I spent money on cannons, gates, a Stargate, kept my probes alive. Easy defense! I still would have won even if I lost my Nexus.

I hate this form of advice. In theory, it sounds good, because "Macro is the largest issue". But it's the worst form of teaching imaginable, because you're instilling the worst habits into lower league players.

Lower league players do not have a problem macroing. Now, I know a ton of people are going to jump down my throat and tell me about the bronze players who can't get above 12 workers and still bank thousands of resources. But that's because they completely ignore the root of the problem, and jump straight to the "Probes and Pylons".

The problem is not Macro. It's Multitasking. It's not that lower league players are bad at Macro, it's that as you increase the tasks they perform, the more actions and conscious decisions that are taken away from Macro.

Telling players to focus on "Probes and Pylons" only exasperates the problem, because you're telling them to focus, rather than improving their ability to spread out actions.

Telling players to focus on "Probes and Pylons" only exasperates the problem, because you're telling them to focus, rather than improving their ability to spread out actions.

disagree.

Multitasking comes when you've got the basic skills and actions down to such a science that you perform them automatically without thought, and between those actions you can multitask and do other things. You can't multitask until you can singletask.

On April 06 2012 11:16 WolfintheSheep wrote:I hate this form of advice. In theory, it sounds good, because "Macro is the largest issue". But it's the worst form of teaching imaginable, because you're instilling the worst habits into lower league players.

Lower league players do not have a problem macroing. Now, I know a ton of people are going to jump down my throat and tell me about the bronze players who can't get above 12 workers and still bank thousands of resources. But that's because they completely ignore the root of the problem, and jump straight to the "Probes and Pylons".

The problem is not Macro. It's Multitasking. It's not that lower league players are bad at Macro, it's that as you increase the tasks they perform, the more actions and conscious decisions that are taken away from Macro.

Telling players to focus on "Probes and Pylons" only exasperates the problem, because you're telling them to focus, rather than improving their ability to spread out actions.

But what if the problem really is that they are trying to multitask rather than focus on macro? I bet I could get above 50% winrate by sitting on 1 base solely focusing on unit production and nothing else. The only thing i would pay attention to is the game timer for when to move out and of course moving units in my base to defend attacks. No multitasking required.

On April 06 2012 11:16 WolfintheSheep wrote:I hate this form of advice. In theory, it sounds good, because "Macro is the largest issue". But it's the worst form of teaching imaginable, because you're instilling the worst habits into lower league players.

Lower league players do not have a problem macroing. Now, I know a ton of people are going to jump down my throat and tell me about the bronze players who can't get above 12 workers and still bank thousands of resources. But that's because they completely ignore the root of the problem, and jump straight to the "Probes and Pylons".

The problem is not Macro. It's Multitasking. It's not that lower league players are bad at Macro, it's that as you increase the tasks they perform, the more actions and conscious decisions that are taken away from Macro.

Telling players to focus on "Probes and Pylons" only exasperates the problem, because you're telling them to focus, rather than improving their ability to spread out actions.

This is great advice, because truly this is the only thing you should be focusing on in your play, warp in units in 1 space, rally to 1 space, check it every so often and a move. You'll win games, I'm being 100% serious. When I was playing zerg on a bronze friends account I got promoted to gold before I stopped winning games by just making drones spores and spines (and a queen per hatch, no more , and no attacking untis, AT ALL) Seriously, if you get these mechanics down, you win games! Hope this helps

Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy. -Beethoven | Mech isn't a build, it's a way of life. -MajOr | Charlie.Sheen: "What is sarcastic, kids who have no courage to fight?" | #TerranPride #yolo #swag -Naama after 2-0'ing MC at HSC VI