The Sunshine Patriot

There is an old saying - plays are on the players; games are on coaches; and seasons are on the GM. Ripping on TT as soon as they start to stumble - ignoring all the past success - is like ripping on Rodgers as soon as he throws a bad pass.

If you don't think they are problems in Green Bay that need to be addressed, then you simply are a homer. I never said that we were not doing things well, but this team needs more if it is going to contend for another SB title, denying that is simply foolhardy.

People like you seem to choose the greatness of this team being destroyed by the lousy performances put in by our defenses. But hey, I am sure you would be fine with another playoff appearance with a quick exit because an historically bad defensive performance in the playoffs yet one again.

You are simply proving the point of my whole post, you are on the other extreme of all the doomsayers who say fire everyone. You blindly ignore the serious problems with parts of the team and say everything is fine. It is not, there are some serious issues, especially on the defensive side of the ball that need to be addressed.

And I am so beyond sick of blind homerism leading to people like myself who see and understand that the Packers are not perfect and need to get better being called spoiled. It is ridiculous. There was another thread where I talked about Ted being a great GM and pointed out the fact that the last time the Packers had Super Bowl success was a direct result of some FA moves that were made, I also said that there really has not been much available the last few years in this department.

So where is all your FA talk after quoting my post coming from?

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Jack's last paragraph notwithstanding, this thread presents a rhetorical trap.

The implied contrast between the "In Ted We Trust" crowd vs. the spoiled whiners (and implied Favre dead-enders?) unimpressed with TT's recent work is a conflated dichotomy. There's a vast middle ground where the truth lies.

I think you protest too much, Sunshinepacker. You say you didn’t take it personally but your posts say otherwise. Perhaps this will help: Just to be clear, it was Thomas Paine who came up the phrase, "Sunshine Patriot"; neither he nor I had you in mind. BTW, the last sentence appears in italics for a reason. Secondly it's interesting you object to one two-word phrase but ignore who it is aimed at: "…those spoiled fans…", "…fair weather fans…", and "…some are coming across as the worst kind of 'entitled' and immature children all too common in our culture…" I was not condescending regarding someone with whom I disagree on a substantive matter, I was pointing out what I, and apparently a few others, view as an immature attitude displayed by some in this forum. I wasn’t implying some here are immature, I stated it outright.

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Yeah, your right, I take back what I said before. I obviously gave the initial post far too much credit in my initial read. While well written I can't say it was well thought out in light of the above. If you go bak through other things I've posted, I generally don't like posts that attempt to insult or belittle others; it's generally the mark of someone who doesn't have the skill to argue their point very well and it hurts the overall tone and value of the forum. I don't need to feel personally insulted by something in order to mention that I thought it was in poor taste. As for your use of the phrases like "spoiled fans", "fair weather fans", etc., I don't really care about those. Those could very well be accurate, some fans are simply frontrunners and I have no problem with calling them out on it (cough, Miami Heat fans, cough). However, you began talking down to people when you told them to grow up. You may "feel" like some on the board are immature but when you start telling people to grow up, you simply sound like someone who wants to hear their own thoughts parroted back at them.

This is an Internet forum. That means there are LOTS of people that can post here. There is a very high probability that some of those people won't agree with you on many things, that's actually one of the positive elements of having a forum, the educational element of differing view points. The tool for having a discussion with someone that feels exactly like you do on every subject was invented a long time ago, it's the mirror.

Yeah, but I will note that Burnett is kind of in a "damned-if-you-do" trap. Packers are poor against the run and pass this year. I'd actually rather he be more aggressive against the run since that seems to actually be the bigger problem (and the weather today made the passing a game a little chancy).

Yeah, but I will note that Burnett is kind of in a "damned-if-you-do" trap. Packers are poor against the run and pass this year. I'd actually rather he be more aggressive against the run since that seems to actually be the bigger problem (and the weather today made the passing a game a little chancy).

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That was Tony Freaking Gonzalez, a guy who's caught a bazillion TDs off play action in red zone. He was suckered; it was a poor decision.

Yeah, your right, I take back what I said before. I obviously gave the initial post far too much credit in my initial read. While well written I can't say it was well thought out in light of the above. If you go back through other things I've posted, I generally don't like posts that attempt to insult or belittle others; it's generally the mark of someone who doesn't have the skill to argue their point very well and it hurts the overall tone and value of the forum.

I don't need to feel personally insulted by something in order to mention that I thought it was in poor taste. As for your use of the phrases like "spoiled fans", "fair weather fans", etc., I don't really care about those. Those could very well be accurate, some fans are simply frontrunners and I have no problem with calling them out on it (cough, Miami Heat fans, cough). However, you began talking down to people when you told them to grow up. You may "feel" like some on the board are immature but when you start telling people to grow up, you simply sound like someone who wants to hear their own thoughts parroted back at them.

This is an Internet forum. That means there are LOTS of people that can post here. There is a very high probability that some of those people won't agree with you on many things, that's actually one of the positive elements of having a forum, the educational element of differing view points. The tool for having a discussion with someone that feels exactly like you do on every subject was invented a long time ago, it's the mirror.

If you don't think they are problems in Green Bay that need to be addressed, then you simply are a homer. I never said that we were not doing things well, but this team needs more if it is going to contend for another SB title, denying that is simply foolhardy.

People like you seem to choose the greatness of this team being destroyed by the lousy performances put in by our defenses. But hey, I am sure you would be fine with another playoff appearance with a quick exit because an historically bad defensive performance in the playoffs yet one again.

Here is where some posters go awry. 'All evidence points to the contrary' is something actually believed. They chose to ignore the SB victory; the 15-1 season; and the impressive streak of playoff appearances. The success of Thompson in his time in GB is impressive. Why suddenly, after a few losses, is the system broken? Are there issues? Yes. Is 'all evidence' pointing to something wrong? No! Not even close. The system is what it is and it has produced one of the youngest most successful franchises in the NFL.

The 'spoiled' part comes in when the expectation is for near perfection. Every season the Packers should go 15-1 and win a SB. Anything less than that produces venomous posts from certain posters directed at TT. If there was a couple franchises out there who signed 2 or 3 FAs and thus win the SB every season then I would agree, signing FAs is what we need to do. But from what I see, more teams are adapting the TT philosophy and are now experiencing more success. Not sure why the desire is to step backward into some mythical panacea of FAs.

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Perhaps I misinterpreted your use of the phrase: 'All evidence points to the contrary' in regards to there being problems in GB. I know there are problems, if you read my post again, I acknowledge. If you read other posts, you will see I am upset with defensive coaching, ST coaching, OL coaching, MLBs not being aggressive, missing a defensive fiery leader on the field, safety, etc. But the point is there are lots of positives about this team.

I don't think 'all evidence' is a fair assessment - not by a long shot. We have some very impressive young talent at CB; Rodgers and CM3 are HOF material; our receiving corps is the envy of the NFL; our specialists, PK and P, are both doing well; Lacy looks to be special; Bak is doing very well for a rookie; etc. I look at all this as evidence, as well as the success we have had in the last 3 years, and none of it points to something wrong in GB.

Would I be happy with with a one and done in the playoffs? Nope. You completely don't understand me. I want a SB victory every year - just as I am sure you do. I just understand that it is unreasonable to expect it. And if we fall short (as will 4 or 5 other very talented teams) I don't think that is an indictment of the way TT is handling the team.

Right now, there are the 49ers, Seahawks, Broncos, Chiefs and Patriots who all have a legitimate shot. Panthers and Bengals are also right about there as well. Those are all very good teams and I think we have a shot at beating all of them - but it is a difficult challenge. As we do, all of these teams have their weak points - and that is just the nature of the NFL these days.

Perhaps I misinterpreted your use of the phrase: 'All evidence points to the contrary' in regards to there being problems in GB. I know there are problems, if you read my post again, I acknowledge. If you read other posts, you will see I am upset with defensive coaching, ST coaching, OL coaching, MLBs not being aggressive, missing a defensive fiery leader on the field, safety, etc. But the point is there are lots of positives about this team.

I don't think 'all evidence' is a fair assessment - not by a long shot. We have some very impressive young talent at CB; Rodgers and CM3 are HOF material; our receiving corps is the envy of the NFL; our specialists, PK and P, are both doing well; Lacy looks to be special; Bak is doing very well for a rookie; etc. I look at all this as evidence, as well as the success we have had in the last 3 years, and none of it points to something wrong in GB.

Would I be happy with with a one and done in the playoffs? Nope. You completely don't understand me. I want a SB victory every year - just as I am sure you do. I just understand that it is unreasonable to expect it. And if we fall short (as will 4 or 5 other very talented teams) I don't think that is an indictment of the way TT is handling the team.

Right now, there are the 49ers, Seahawks, Broncos, Chiefs and Patriots who all have a legitimate shot. Panthers and Bengals are also right about there as well. Those are all very good teams and I think we have a shot at beating all of them - but it is a difficult challenge. As we do, all of these teams have their weak points - and that is just the nature of the NFL these days.

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I really like your optimism.
It's a refreshing change from the pessimistic, the sky is falling crap I hear from my wife on a steady basis.

Perhaps I misinterpreted your use of the phrase: 'All evidence points to the contrary' in regards to there being problems in GB. I know there are problems, if you read my post again, I acknowledge. If you read other posts, you will see I am upset with defensive coaching, ST coaching, OL coaching, MLBs not being aggressive, missing a defensive fiery leader on the field, safety, etc. But the point is there are lots of positives about this team.

I don't think 'all evidence' is a fair assessment - not by a long shot. We have some very impressive young talent at CB; Rodgers and CM3 are HOF material; our receiving corps is the envy of the NFL; our specialists, PK and P, are both doing well; Lacy looks to be special; Bak is doing very well for a rookie; etc. I look at all this as evidence, as well as the success we have had in the last 3 years, and none of it points to something wrong in GB.

Would I be happy with with a one and done in the playoffs? Nope. You completely don't understand me. I want a SB victory every year - just as I am sure you do. I just understand that it is unreasonable to expect it. And if we fall short (as will 4 or 5 other very talented teams) I don't think that is an indictment of the way TT is handling the team.

Right now, there are the 49ers, Seahawks, Broncos, Chiefs and Patriots who all have a legitimate shot. Panthers and Bengals are also right about there as well. Those are all very good teams and I think we have a shot at beating all of them - but it is a difficult challenge. As we do, all of these teams have their weak points - and that is just the nature of the NFL these days.

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Now I wish I could take my disagree mark on your original post away because after reading this post, you and I think along the same lines. I now understand that my "all evidence" part of my post probably made it sound like I think "everything" is wrong in GB. For the record, I do not believe that. When I used that phrase i was thinking of the exact same things that you talk about such as DC, ST, OL, etc..

Anyway, i do believe we basically think the same way, we were just having a communication block for whatever reason.