> [{quoted}](name=Shuriman God,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=VOnVB9Ua,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-09-11T17:58:34.402+0000)
>
> Don't you diss Gravelord and the greatest skin of all, Warring Kingdoms Azir...
he looks like a chicken in game I want blood moon Azir or odyssey Azir

:
> [{quoted}](name=DeejayF,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GEsiG8jL,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-04-10T19:44:48.991+0000)
>
> Okay sounds reasonable it's just hard for me to dodge out of the cage because for me it's so sudden. I have no idea how to describe it it's jusat tough okay :c
Oh, no, I get it. Veigar used to give me tons of problems when I first started.
And I played him a lot for a short while. Try him out some, get used to when the timings go off. I think the E takes 0.5 seconds to arm. That is not a lot of time but it is possible to use a dash out of it or if you are predicting it, you can get out. Otherwise, just avoid the walls and dodge the W when they drop it. Not a lot of Veigar's are good enough to actually land the E right on you but if they are, just stay away from minions that will cause you to get caught.
Most of it is just practice.
I like Veigar but he is particularly easy to punish early game.

:
Veigar's cage has a slight warm-up time.
So when it starts to come up, you can escape with Akali's dashes, sometimes even hit him with the ranged attack and wait it out before re-engaging.
After you bait out the E, you can live on his face so long as you dodge the death from above and keep your health up so his ulti will not crush your face. :D
Also, Veigar /has/ to stack. So if you can position yourself correctly, you can sometimes get in free poke when he uses his Q to pick up minions for stacks.
It is minor, but it can add up. This can also sometimes lead to him trying to use the cage to trap you, which can let you all in him pretty well or at least dive on him in response. If you can do that, it can be easy to get a flash out, or at least some good damage. The W is pretty easy to avoid once you get used to it.

> [{quoted}](name=Syrile,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GEsiG8jL,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-04-10T18:27:12.569+0000)
>
> Veigar's cage has a slight warm-up time.
> So when it starts to come up, you can escape with Akali's dashes, sometimes even hit him with the ranged attack and wait it out before re-engaging.
> After you bait out the E, you can live on his face so long as you dodge the death from above and keep your health up so his ulti will not crush your face. :D
>
> Also, Veigar /has/ to stack. So if you can position yourself correctly, you can sometimes get in free poke when he uses his Q to pick up minions for stacks.
> It is minor, but it can add up. This can also sometimes lead to him trying to use the cage to trap you, which can let you all in him pretty well or at least dive on him in response. If you can do that, it can be easy to get a flash out, or at least some good damage. The W is pretty easy to avoid once you get used to it.
Okay sounds reasonable it's just hard for me to dodge out of the cage because for me it's so sudden. I have no idea how to describe it it's jusat tough okay :c

> [{quoted}](name=strygwyr3,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GEsiG8jL,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-10T18:08:42.208+0000)
>
> yea sorry either auto correct or typo you CAN look for avenues when his e is on CD
oh okay that's good to know thanks

> [{quoted}](name=strygwyr3,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GEsiG8jL,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-04-10T17:54:45.229+0000)
>
> best advice against vieg in general if you have to get up on that gnome, need to bait out his e by making it look like you will engage if successful you cant find avenues to trade while its on cd
can't? I thought I can look for trades when it's on cd

:
I play Riven a lot and SoS really has a sucky build path on her. Unless you're playing in a pure farm lane (say, against Kennen), you'll always go for early trades and will almost never have the 1.3k gold for BF sword. The other ingredients make little sense to buy early. Your first back is almost always Caulfield's, followed most likely by BC. You'll build SoS third, if at all. If, however, you DO have the 1.3k on first back, and you manage to build SoS first in a timely manner, you immediately enter God mode. So I don't mind the build path too much, it actually adds some variety.

> [{quoted}](name=Morgentau,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=bA23Bla3,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-02-22T19:10:24.087+0000)
>
> I play Riven a lot and SoS really has a sucky build path on her. Unless you're playing in a pure farm lane (say, against Kennen), you'll always go for early trades and will almost never have the 1.3k gold for BF sword. The other ingredients make little sense to buy early. Your first back is almost always Caulfield's, followed most likely by BC. You'll build SoS third, if at all. If, however, you DO have the 1.3k on first back, and you manage to build SoS first in a timely manner, you immediately enter God mode. So I don't mind the build path too much, it actually adds some variety.
ye I really love the finished item on Riven bc now there is no dead stat like on the old ER but there is never a time where BF sword is available. Sometimes I really wish BF sword would build out of seperate ad items.
This is really weird I'm not a Riven main nor a top laner yet I adore this new item so much and Riven is a beast in the right hands.

> [{quoted}](name=MankeyMadness,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=bA23Bla3,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-02-22T23:45:09.560+0000)
>
> Its a godly build path but costs top damn much.
> Make it {{item:3133}} {{item:1037}} {{item:1011}} or {{item:1037}} {{item:3067}} {{item:1037}} and we got a solid "buy all the time"
well the only champs that really love this build path are Lucian and Jax imo. Jax gets more tankiness by buying ad due to his ult and Lucian always loves a bf sword and a bit of health. So I would really like the options that you suggested it would open it up a little bit to other champs until it's finished

:
> [{quoted}](name=Ralanr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AJRVjGhU,comment-id=0001000100010000,timestamp=2019-02-20T16:30:41.362+0000)
>
> 1. Tanks can’t one shot a squishy in a full rotation unless they are supremely ahead or the squishy is supremely behind.
>
> 2. Squishies are squishy because anyone can harm them, thus forcing them to kite around opponents more. If squishies couldn’t be hurt by a class, they wouldn’t be squishy.
if a tank can't harm a squishy champ that would actually seem pretty logical to me they don't be any damage so I shouldn't be just absolutely stomped by something this tanky at least that's my opinion about tanks seriously man. It feels really oof *~*

> [{quoted}](name=DeejayF,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AJRVjGhU,comment-id=00010001000100000000,timestamp=2019-02-20T23:45:21.367+0000)
>
> if a tank can't harm a squishy champ that would actually seem pretty logical to me they don't be any damage so I shouldn't be just absolutely stomped by something this tanky at least that's my opinion about tanks seriously man. It feels really oof *~*
Agreed

:
> [{quoted}](name=DeejayF,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AJRVjGhU,comment-id=00010001000100010000,timestamp=2019-02-20T23:47:26.250+0000)
>
> but that's where I am like "what?" that's not the job of the tank to deal damage to the carries. And why is it so bad if tanks have to stand under turret until they get items aren't they supposed to be late game champs?
Tell me, would you like to spend 30 minutes farming under you own tower, just so you can...cc people?
At that point nobody would play tanks on top, cuz who the fuck wants to be enemy top's bitch for 20+ minutes?
Every1 would rather play juggernauts who are just slightly less tankier than OG tanks, but they can deal damage.
Think about it- if a tank main can't deal damage to trade his enemy, then no matter how skilled the tank player is, every fucking r%%%%% can take dmg dealer and outlane the tank, simplay because tank wouldn't have the tools to defend himself against any1 with damage.
The fact is- tanks NEED some damage to be able to solo lane.

> [{quoted}](name=Midg3t,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AJRVjGhU,comment-id=000100010001000100000000,timestamp=2019-02-21T01:14:59.944+0000)
>
> Tell me, would you like to spend 30 minutes farming under you own tower, just so you can...cc people?
> At that point nobody would play tanks on top, cuz who the fuck wants to be enemy top's bitch for 20+ minutes?
> Every1 would rather play juggernauts who are just slightly less tankier than OG tanks, but they can deal damage.
>
> Think about it- if a tank main can't deal damage to trade his enemy, then no matter how skilled the tank player is, every fucking r%%%%% can take dmg dealer and outlane the tank, simplay because tank wouldn't have the tools to defend himself against any1 with damage.
>
> The fact is- tanks NEED some damage to be able to solo lane.
I always thought tank players were the plebs that want to support their team in soaking up damage and engaging a fight. No offense but I always thought that's why people play tanks to begin with to HELP YOUR TEAM. Because in the end of the day I think a tank carries the game by being a protective shield for his team or if they get a really good catch I'm more like "hey I dealt damage as adc but without my tank I couldn't have done that he carried me". Maybe I'm racist against tanks

> [{quoted}](name=Ralanr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AJRVjGhU,comment-id=000100010001000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-20T23:52:31.204+0000)
>
> If it was a pve game, you’d have a point. But it isn’t.
>
> And imo it isn’t logical actually. If a squishy person wasn’t even at threat of dying to a tank, then they aren’t really squishy at all.
It just seems so illogical to me. Call me racist against tanks or whatever but I view tank as things that are there to soak up damage and be a distraction, supporting their team in taking the hits. That's how I've always viewed a tank. And I am just always upset when I see tanks like Cho Gath and Maplhite going full ap and it works since their ap ratios are too good for tank

:
> [{quoted}](name=DeejayF,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AJRVjGhU,comment-id=000100010001,timestamp=2019-02-20T15:49:53.893+0000)
>
> Okay I'm relatively late to the party but please explain me why on earth it should be okay for a tank to not buy a single damage item yet manage to one shot a squishy adc or even mage while a champ that mostly builds damage such as carries or bruisers to deal like 30 to 50 percent damage to their health bars. Like if a tank gets an ultimate that swallows you whole and deals true damage and is somehow balanced then tell me how. If you dedicate your entire item build path to tankiness then you by no means should be able to deal 900 or 1k damage to an adc or mage when you are on top of them it simply feels like a kick in the nuts to see something that has no damage in his build to burn you alive and drag you through the dirt. Obviously this is a bit of an exaggeration but it will simply not add up in my mind why tanks are supposed to have damage in their kit. Tanks usually have a good way of engaging a fight while most adcs are forced to kite it out. I would really appreciate a nice response to kind of show me your side of all of this
I never said tanks should "oneshot" some1, but they should have some damage. Without it, how do you expect them to trade in the lane?
By your logic, if I take let's say shen into darius, and I, as a tank, shouldn't deal any damage, what the fuck should I do in lane? Last hit under my tower? While Darius is just standing there bullying me out of my lane while I'm not being able to do jack shit.
It's not that hard to see why tanks need dmg. But they don't need TOO MUCH dmg, I agree on that.
And if tank manages to get to an adc or mage and throw everything on them, yes, they should be able to chunk a big portion of their HP, just like any other champion would do, and should do.

> [{quoted}](name=Midg3t,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AJRVjGhU,comment-id=0001000100010001,timestamp=2019-02-20T23:24:50.730+0000)
>
> I never said tanks should "oneshot" some1, but they should have some damage. Without it, how do you expect them to trade in the lane?
> By your logic, if I take let's say shen into darius, and I, as a tank, shouldn't deal any damage, what the fuck should I do in lane? Last hit under my tower? While Darius is just standing there bullying me out of my lane while I'm not being able to do jack shit.
>
> It's not that hard to see why tanks need dmg. But they don't need TOO MUCH dmg, I agree on that.
>
> And if tank manages to get to an adc or mage and throw everything on them, yes, they should be able to chunk a big portion of their HP, just like any other champion would do, and should do.
but that's where I am like "what?" that's not the job of the tank to deal damage to the carries. And why is it so bad if tanks have to stand under turret until they get items aren't they supposed to be late game champs?

:
1. Tanks can’t one shot a squishy in a full rotation unless they are supremely ahead or the squishy is supremely behind.
2. Squishies are squishy because anyone can harm them, thus forcing them to kite around opponents more. If squishies couldn’t be hurt by a class, they wouldn’t be squishy.

> [{quoted}](name=Ralanr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AJRVjGhU,comment-id=0001000100010000,timestamp=2019-02-20T16:30:41.362+0000)
>
> 1. Tanks can’t one shot a squishy in a full rotation unless they are supremely ahead or the squishy is supremely behind.
>
> 2. Squishies are squishy because anyone can harm them, thus forcing them to kite around opponents more. If squishies couldn’t be hurt by a class, they wouldn’t be squishy.
if a tank can't harm a squishy champ that would actually seem pretty logical to me they don't be any damage so I shouldn't be just absolutely stomped by something this tanky at least that's my opinion about tanks seriously man. It feels really oof *~*

:
> [{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AJRVjGhU,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-11-19T13:14:56.348+0000)
>
> a juggernaut doesn&#x27;t stun-lock you by themselves for anywhere between 2-4 seconds and their damage is almost always more backloaded or DPS than a tank who burst-combos you
>
Show me an example where tank bursts (except sion) you while being equal with him in terms of items. And if stun-lock is an issue for you then what should tanks do in fights in you opinion? Just stand there lookin pretty?
> a juggernaut actually buys their damage almost every time instead of getting to run full tank.
>
Poor juggs, they need to buy 1 dmg item and then can go full tank xD
> Darius and Yasuo aren&#x27;t even OP, let alone broken
>
Neither are tanks and yet here you are, complaining about them.
> A solid 70% of bruisers and fighters were absolute trash before Conqueror came out, or are we just going to revise history and pretend that the point in time where top lane was exclusively Maokai, Ornn, Cho&#x27;Gath with the small handful of Klepto fighters who could just opt out of trading with them ever didn&#x27;t happen
>
So because of that tanks deserve to be garbage now? lmao

> [{quoted}](name=Midg3t,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AJRVjGhU,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2018-11-19T13:43:28.109+0000)
>
> Show me an example where tank bursts (except sion) you while being equal with him in terms of items. And if stun-lock is an issue for you then what should tanks do in fights in you opinion? Just stand there lookin pretty?
>
> Poor juggs, they need to buy 1 dmg item and then can go full tank xD
>
> Neither are tanks and yet here you are, complaining about them.
>
> So because of that tanks deserve to be garbage now? lmao
Okay I'm relatively late to the party but please explain me why on earth it should be okay for a tank to not buy a single damage item yet manage to one shot a squishy adc or even mage while a champ that mostly builds damage such as carries or bruisers to deal like 30 to 50 percent damage to their health bars. Like if a tank gets an ultimate that swallows you whole and deals true damage and is somehow balanced then tell me how. If you dedicate your entire item build path to tankiness then you by no means should be able to deal 900 or 1k damage to an adc or mage when you are on top of them it simply feels like a kick in the nuts to see something that has no damage in his build to burn you alive and drag you through the dirt. Obviously this is a bit of an exaggeration but it will simply not add up in my mind why tanks are supposed to have damage in their kit. Tanks usually have a good way of engaging a fight while most adcs are forced to kite it out. I would really appreciate a nice response to kind of show me your side of all of this

:
It's just the unfortunate truth that Azir will always have the Ryze treatment until they rework him (like a VGU). His kit is just so impossible so balance that the skill gap between low elo and high elo makes it so no number iteration will make him properly balanced. Other champs like this are Ryze (duh), Zoe, Akali, Sejuani, Irelia.
I think it kinda sucks to main any champions like that who are impossible to balance. Either they're useless, permabanned, or worst of all, useless AND permabanned. (Akali)

:
You have to get lucky. You have to get a very luck win streak.
As soon as players get Gold they love to look down on players in ELO hell and scoff. The truth is, Silver is the WORST ELO to rank out of, in my opinion.
Silver has the most ridiculous skill disparities in lanes compared to any of the low ELOs, since you have Irons getting lucky in placements, and unlucky gold players all in the same game. Due to the absurd disparities, individual performance matters very little. There is also a strong likelihood atleast half of your team doesn't understand objectives, or warding. Things even great players are dependent on from their team.
I haven't played placements yet because I am terrified of getting unlucky and stuck in Silver 1. Nothing fills me with more dread than getting trapped in a 50 minutes auto-loss game with flaming teammates who don't know how the game works and refuse to FF.

> [{quoted}](name=Kanyoupipu,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=EheHrojc,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-02-01T21:27:03.094+0000)
>
> You have to get lucky. You have to get a very luck win streak.
>
> As soon as players get Gold they love to look down on players in ELO hell and scoff. The truth is, Silver is the WORST ELO to rank out of, in my opinion.
>
> Silver has the most ridiculous skill disparities in lanes compared to any of the low ELOs, since you have Irons getting lucky in placements, and unlucky gold players all in the same game. Due to the absurd disparities, individual performance matters very little. There is also a strong likelihood atleast half of your team doesn't understand objectives, or warding. Things even great players are dependent on from their team.
>
> I haven't played placements yet because I am terrified of getting unlucky and stuck in Silver 1. Nothing fills me with more dread than getting trapped in a 50 minutes auto-loss game with flaming teammates who don't know how the game works and refuse to FF.
Interesting to see someone expressing himself like that. I am a firm believer that if you can stay determined you can make it besides if you were high gold last season there isn't that much to worry for you

:
You have to improve to be better than silver players. The more better you are than silver players, the less games it will take to climb out
Worrying about your teams or whatever is an entirely pointless exercise. If you don't realise you have lots to improve in your play you will never get better

> [{quoted}](name=Kythers,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=EheHrojc,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-02-01T15:00:15.329+0000)
>
> You have to improve to be better than silver players. The more better you are than silver players, the less games it will take to climb out
>
> Worrying about your teams or whatever is an entirely pointless exercise. If you don&#x27;t realise you have lots to improve in your play you will never get better
I have no idea where you got this from. I DO know that I am not great at the game. I know that there's lots of stuff I could get better at Problem being I feel like I didn't improve over the course of MONTHS which can really mess with your head sometimes

:
after reading through your thread and your responses to others in the thread, your problem is VERY clear:
You have already decided that you "CAN'T"...
You use so many definitive negative statements. The first thing you need to do is work on your mental, and change your self narrative. There is a lot of good advice in this thread, but until you first change your to something more positive, it wont help.
You can be good at this game if you want to.
You CAN get out of silver.
You don't even HAVE to do it with meta champions. Which brings me to my one piece of advice for getting out of silver:
Pick you favorite champion, and as often as is possible: ONLY PLAY THAT ONE CHAMP. Helps if your fav. champ isnt someone high on the ban list, but the point is, once you don't have to think much if at all about how to pilot your champion, it will be much easier to focus on the macro side of things.

> [{quoted}](name=Shahamut,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=EheHrojc,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-02-01T03:24:07.072+0000)
>
> after reading through your thread and your responses to others in the thread, your problem is VERY clear:
>
> You have already decided that you &quot;CAN&#x27;T&quot;...
>
> You use so many definitive negative statements. The first thing you need to do is work on your mental, and change your self narrative. There is a lot of good advice in this thread, but until you first change your to something more positive, it wont help.
>
> You can be good at this game if you want to.
>
> You CAN get out of silver.
>
> You don&#x27;t even HAVE to do it with meta champions. Which brings me to my one piece of advice for getting out of silver:
>
> Pick you favorite champion, and as often as is possible: ONLY PLAY THAT ONE CHAMP. Helps if your fav. champ isnt someone high on the ban list, but the point is, once you don&#x27;t have to think much if at all about how to pilot your champion, it will be much easier to focus on the macro side of things.
Thanks for the nice advice I just wished Azir wouldn't be so bad rn. It makes me sad every game I play with him you just see that riot hates Azir...

:
> [{quoted}](name=DeejayF,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=EheHrojc,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-02-01T02:10:02.942+0000)
>
> didn&#x27;t I state that I was never implying that I think that I am abover or better than others? I just said that the people playing this game shaped my mentality to become one of them which made my life worse I can&#x27;t stop playing when I lose because I have to regain the lp or it wasn&#x27;t even worth playing for that day
Also, instead of playing with the mindset that you need to gain LP, play with the intent of improving every game. Do that and LP gains will follow naturally.

> [{quoted}](name=Scyns,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=EheHrojc,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-02-01T02:14:33.860+0000)
>
> Also, instead of playing with the mindset that you need to gain LP, play with the intent of improving every game. Do that and LP gains will follow naturally.
How I suck ass at this game and won't get better...

:
> [{quoted}](name=DeejayF,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=EheHrojc,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-02-01T01:51:39.277+0000)
>
> I have a really really unhealthy habit of not wanting to stop when I experience loss...also &quot;playing better than silver&quot; then I will never be able to get gold in my entire life
You have to view it as what it is. You're not "ending" anything, whether you stop for the day on a win or a loss. You are instead saying "Instead of simply pausing and continuing later, I am insisting on continuing to play with a increasingly larger and larger handicap on something that just grinding _more_ at isn't going to help accomplish."
Chapter 3 is still there, today or tomorrow. Put a bookmark in it.

> [{quoted}](name=Sona Ping,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=EheHrojc,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-01T02:06:23.473+0000)
>
> You have to view it as what it is. You're not "ending" anything, whether you stop for the day on a win or a loss. You are instead saying "Instead of simply pausing and continuing later, I am insisting on continuing to play with a increasingly larger and larger handicap on something that just grinding _more_ at isn't going to help accomplish."
> Chapter 3 is still there, today or tomorrow. Put a bookmark in it.
I want progress and I want no I need it fast otherwise my fragile ego can't handle it. It makes me furious stopping would be like giving up to me and that would be like showing weakness and if you show weakness you are being pushed around.

:
Best tips for climbing:
1. Never rage or even be negative to your teammates. Has having an anonymous person yelling at you in a game ever helped you play better? Not likely, so remember that complaining at your teammates, let alone spamming all chat about how much better you are than everyone else, will never help you win a game. It just serves to help your ego.
2. Take brakes after a couple of losses. Losing puts everyone in a bad mindset and tends to make people try to overplay and force things instead of taking advantage of your opponents mistakes.
3. After every game, win or lose, think about what you could have done better. There is always something, even if you go 30/0/30.

> [{quoted}](name=Scyns,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=EheHrojc,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-02-01T02:06:34.097+0000)
>
> Best tips for climbing:
>
> 1. Never rage or even be negative to your teammates. Has having an anonymous person yelling at you in a game ever helped you play better? Not likely, so remember that complaining at your teammates, let alone spamming all chat about how much better you are than everyone else, will never help you win a game. It just serves to help your ego.
>
> 2. Take brakes after a couple of losses. Losing puts everyone in a bad mindset and tends to make people try to overplay and force things instead of taking advantage of your opponents mistakes.
>
> 3. After every game, win or lose, think about what you could have done better. There is always something, even if you go 30/0/30.
didn't I state that I was never implying that I think that I am abover or better than others? I just said that the people playing this game shaped my mentality to become one of them which made my life worse I can't stop playing when I lose because I have to regain the lp or it wasn't even worth playing for that day

:
You have to be better than Silver. However this:
>...so far I'm at an 8 game losing streak and I really don't want to stop until I win a game even if that means not even going to sleep.
this is a surefire way to guarantee that does not happen. Go to bed.
Rest and come back and readdress it with a clear, non-sleep deprived mind.

> [{quoted}](name=ryanthelion16,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=rwR88H30,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-01-30T20:24:57.803+0000)
>
> Yes ! this absolutely should happen !! {{champion:268}}
thank you your tribute to the emperor will not be forgotten

:
> [{quoted}](name=DeejayF,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MRYyAhff,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-25T13:55:49.129+0000)
>
> thank you very much for that information. Unfortunately I can&#x27;t really ban Gragas because in my elo rarely anyone plays him mid so I don&#x27;t think it&#x27;s worth. Should I just try out roaming him?
Yes. Do you best to Q farm until 6 then roam bot for a double kill.

> [{quoted}](name=Done25,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MRYyAhff,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-26T02:31:34.941+0000)
>
> Yes. Do you best to Q farm until 6 then roam bot for a double kill.
usually that gets me behind because the lanes aren't pushed up or the gank just won't happen because my teammates prefer to cs which is fine but means I waste time so I'm stuck in elo limbo as I like to call it everytime I try to be a good teammate I just die because I keep forgetting I don't play with people buit with bots who think they are people xd. And it's always better to let them die. At least from what I've seen :/

:
> [{quoted}](name=DeejayF,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=H6N6tye9,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-01-25T15:22:49.720+0000)
>
> what do you mean?
"Reverting" means returning it to the state it was previously in.
Previously, Banshee's Veil didn't give any Ability Power and instead gave 300 Health and some percentage Base Health Regeneration (with everything else about the item remotely unchanged).
This made the item viable to build on any champion you could want, instead of it being restricted to "Mages only".
What I mean by niche is that (most) Mage builds nowadays look a little something like this:
{{item:3285}} {{item:3020}} {{item:3165}} {{item:3089}} {{item:3135}} {{item:3157}}
Luden's is needed for the mana and Cooldown Reduction (plus the bonus damage passive is nice), Void Staff is needed to deal with Tanks, the pure damage you deal off of Sorc Shoes + Morello + Deathcap is too great to pass up on, and in the meta we're currently in, Zhonya's is almost a must to not get blown up immediately.
This leaves no room for Banshee's Veil. Even in situations where the enemy team has more AP than AD, it's still preferable to get Zhonya's simply for the active.
Reverting Banshee's Veil, whilst it wouldn't really fix Mage itemization, would at least open it up to be build by others other than Mages.
Tanks that don't benefit as much from {{item:3065}} because they don't have any self-heals and can't reliably build {{item:3194}} because the enemy doesn't have DoTs can instead opt for a {{item:3102}} to block a spell on engage.
You can also go full anti-magic crusader on an AD champion and build {{item:3156}} {{item:3111}} {{item:3139}} {{item:3091}} {{item:3102}} {{item:3124}}

> [{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=H6N6tye9,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-25T16:12:31.742+0000)
>
> &quot;Reverting&quot; means returning it to the state it was previously in.
>
> Previously, Banshee&#x27;s Veil didn&#x27;t give any Ability Power and instead gave 300 Health and some percentage Base Health Regeneration (with everything else about the item remotely unchanged).
>
> This made the item viable to build on any champion you could want, instead of it being restricted to &quot;Mages only&quot;.
>
> What I mean by niche is that (most) Mage builds nowadays look a little something like this:
>
> {{item:3285}} {{item:3020}} {{item:3165}} {{item:3089}} {{item:3135}} {{item:3157}}
>
> Luden&#x27;s is needed for the mana and Cooldown Reduction (plus the bonus damage passive is nice), Void Staff is needed to deal with Tanks, the pure damage you deal off of Sorc Shoes + Morello + Deathcap is too great to pass up on, and in the meta we&#x27;re currently in, Zhonya&#x27;s is almost a must to not get blown up immediately.
>
> This leaves no room for Banshee&#x27;s Veil. Even in situations where the enemy team has more AP than AD, it&#x27;s still preferable to get Zhonya&#x27;s simply for the active.
>
> Reverting Banshee&#x27;s Veil, whilst it wouldn&#x27;t really fix Mage itemization, would at least open it up to be build by others other than Mages.
>
> Tanks that don&#x27;t benefit as much from {{item:3065}} because they don&#x27;t have any self-heals and can&#x27;t reliably build {{item:3194}} because the enemy doesn&#x27;t have DoTs can instead opt for a {{item:3102}} to block a spell on engage.
>
> You can also go full anti-magic crusader on an AD champion and build {{item:3156}} {{item:3111}} {{item:3139}} {{item:3091}} {{item:3102}} {{item:3124}}
Thanks for the explanation. I know what reverting means i just wanted to know what it used to be before.
While I don't have any issues that it is a mage only item I just think for a mage item the passive is not quite helpful enough. Unlike Edge of night which I think is underrated you can't instantly get the ability shield to block the most important ability from the enemy team if it would work like edge of night that you can simply activate it would be much more helpful in a lot more situations. I just think it's lacking utility.

> [{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=H6N6tye9,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-01-25T14:11:03.430+0000)
>
> It needs to get reverted.
>
> It&#x27;s a way too niche item to solely restrict it to Mages.
what do you mean?

:
> [{quoted}](name=DeejayF,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MRYyAhff,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-01-23T14:00:05.230+0000)
>
> for something that&#x27;s supposed to be a tank he deals distgusting damage. Maybe it&#x27;d just the lack of knowledge that I have or he straight up counters knew Akali. But he is disgusting to play against mid and even if he builds ap he is still quite tanky imo. Why can&#x27;t riot balance tanks better? I think tanks should not deal any damage at all to champs or as little as possible
He just straight up counters Akali. She has a 44% win rate against him in lane and she has a 38% win rate by end of game. He deals a lot of AoE damage that ignores her stealth and his built in damage reduction makes him difficult for her to burst.

for something that's supposed to be a tank he deals distgusting damage. Maybe it'd just the lack of knowledge that I have or he straight up counters knew Akali. But he is disgusting to play against mid and even if he builds ap he is still quite tanky imo. Why can't riot balance tanks better? I think tanks should not deal any damage at all to champs or as little as possible

:
You're not wrong, but I do like the fact that you don't see the same champ every single game like before. It was getting so stale when all you would see were the top win rate champs. I'm actually going back to adc. I think it's one of the most pivotal roles now because bot lanes can impact the game much higher then a solo lane if played right. Because now you have 2 people mia instead of just one!

I wasn't talking about laning phase specifically I was talking about team fights. Yes I do know that if he is stupid enough to use his silence on minions I can just shroud but my shroud has longer cd and he can kind of mitigate some damage with his life steal ability. Iwas talking about sitiuations where he ult fear ignite then silences me and I die even though I wasn't behind simply because he CCs me for like 5 whole seconds where I can't even zhonyas. Do you understand now? Because all I can try doing is AA and Akali sucks without her abilites

but then Irelia is open. And she will open my gates just like udyr xd. See with over 150 champs in this game the ban 10 system is really outdated. You should be able to ban 2 champs yourself meaning ban 20 sounds more reasonable

:
I can understand you're frustrated, but I can't really follow what your comment much in the middle where you mention talon. If you aren't going to play top lane and if you are having top laners not understanding how to play the match up, then you have to influence the other side of the map since Riven's will usually roam after getting some kills. You didn't really say what lane you played either, but to me Riven isn't that great. There are people who have mastered her mechanics and have her timing down. Especially if the riven is maxing her shield.
All I'm saying is if you chase Riven she will outplay you. That's why top laners are supposed to farm and buy good first items. If Riven's that much of a pain, wait till you see the good Camilles, Fiora's, Irelia's constantly stomping.
If you are afraid of the top laner's potential. You need to get bot lanes towers pushed so you can pressure mid or better lane swap with top lane for objectives

I was mentioning Talon and comparing him to her because she has such a good level 2 even though she is supposed to be a late game champ. Just like talon she can all in you at level 2 which I think is completey counter intuitive to what she is supposed to be because Talon falls of hard Riven does not she only gets stronger which is ridiculous.
But hey at least my baby Azir gets nerfed into the ground and shot into the knee. That's so balanced. I hate Riot Games so much for it. I already know how much of a pain Irelia is that's why i always ban her, well almost always.
You get one shot by her or anything else because there's just too much damage flying around so playing adc is no fun at all. Which is why I swapped to mid, but I'm still pissed. Or how they give tanks more damage because that# what they DEFENETLY NEED lmao

:
There is a problem with nerfing her. She already severely struggles against anyone who is tanky with either AoE CC or point and click cc. The biggest example I can think of is Cho. If she is against Cho or someone similar she will have a miserable time in lane and this would be heightened if she was nerfed.
As for countering her, you just have to walk away whenever she uses the first cast of Q on minions. As soon as she uses the other 2 casts you have a window to get a good trade off on her if you are able to engage during that time. She has one of the lowest health regeneration stats in the game so even going even in a trade would be a won trade in the long run.

But it's okay that Riot is nerfing adc to the point where it was unfun to play and even now it's a pain because there is so much damage or the fact that they spit on Azir my favorite champ in the game almost removing his waveclear as a CONTROL MAGE because he is too broken in pro play. I care so little to the 0.01 percent that play the game at such a high level because it's boring to watch and at least it would be enjoyable for me to see Azir absolutely destroying everything then I'd actually sit through the torture of watch LCS. I don't play top so I can't control that and since her CD in late game are extremely low that is just way to hard to punish. Sorry for going on such a big rant but I don't think it's fair at all

:
If you are saying that a scenario where you are playing top lane then I would advise a few things. 1 major way to beat anyone in top lane is to control the wave by last hitting much better. Also depending who I am playing I like to move the wave toward the right side of the lane. You can do that by making a small trade. Small tip on trade to manipulate the wave is to bait Riven's or any top laners ability by faking your last hit by walking up to a minion early enough to back away if you can make her blow an ability.
Once she blows an ability you at least have 1 more ability you can use on her then she has now.( Usually Most Riven's Will freak out in a sense and use all their abilities if you keep faking in....Now you have more abilities to use vs her
Lvl 2 can be a good power spike to gain control of the minion wave, but lvl 4 is also much better so if you lose lvl 2 advantage. Don't get greedy and let the wave push because early game XP is better then that little amount of gold. Even though 1st back is great way to get an advantage))
I have a few other things I could add but I don't want to make reading uninteresting

didn't I mention that I DON'T play top so I don't have DIRECT influence over the matchup. and in the late game. WHAT CD??? Her shield is on a 2 second CD making it kind of hard to even scratch her. And still doesn't explain why she has a power spike on like almost everything especially early game at lvl 2 where she can the lvl 2 of TALON fcking TALON how just how and why is this decision made by Riot Games. And maybe you would be saying something along the lines of "she was intended to be a lane bully when she was released". I know but that's not how she works anymore her early shut be gutted so hard because it's not fair imo why she gets have so much early burst and pressure while Azir almost got his waveclear gutted and just gets spitted on by Riot. It makes me sick. As you probably noticed I am extremely tilted by this. But I want to understand where the fairness in that should be.