I think you'll find i was refering to stoners performance on the ducati after 2007 where he finished 2nd 4th and 4th on the ducati (13 wins in that time is a fair few, i think anyone would agree)

My point being that stoner had a tougher time on the ducati when things didn't go exactly his way so why should thing magically change in the short time rossi had been on the ducati.

And to answer your question my GOAT is exactly where i left him 105 wins to 40. (Although Mick Doohan (54 wins) will be surely be bettered by Stoner soon)

Even if stoner continues to win he'll never be as popular and even stats dont tell the whole story, after all how many people consider Senna the F1 GOAT, he "only" had 3 WC.

Stoner had a tough time on the Duc every year because it is a ***** to ride. You only have to look at where his team mates finished, even in '07.

To finish 2nd, 4th and 4th is pretty bloody impressive considering that the greatest rider of all time couldn't manage top 5 on it last year. Stoner won multiple races every year on the Ducati. Rossi couldn't do that in 2011. Remember this is a guy who said he could fix the Ducati in 90 seconds and also talked a lot more crap about Stoner in regard to the Ducati. He had no idea what Stoner was up against until he actually started to ride it!

As for the popularity comment, I'm sure Stoner cries himself to sleep every night knowing that he isn't going to win a popularity contest against Rossi.......NOT! LOL

MotoGP isn't a popularity contest. Doohan knew it and so does Stoner. Neither care I am sure.

Oh and Rossi not having anything to prove? I am sorry but HE DOES. Thats why he took the move to Ducati. He wants to prove he is a great and can win on anything. He needs to prove that he was worth all of that money that Ducati are paying him, because they certainly aren't paying him the big bucks to run around mid field.
I am sure he was also eyeing off Agos record so that he could be the undisputed GOAT. If he had stayed with Yamaha, breaking the record was achievable. Its looking pretty safe at the moment though.

As for the 105 wins to 40, thats not telling the whole story either. How many wins has Rossi had since Stoner joined MotoGP? A lot less than 40, despite being on better machinery than Stoner!

Rossi couldn't do that in 2011. Remember this is a guy who said he could fix the Ducati in 90 seconds

They said 80 seconds.

I don't think Rossi's ability has diminshed much at all. What has changed is the level of competition and the equality of the bikes.

Back when Rossi was having no trouble getting the wins who were his opponents? Biaggi, Gibernau, Capirrossi, Bayliss, Barros... None of them were championship potential. Especially in the days when Rossi got all the special parts from Honda (developed with all the extra $$ that could be spent on testing then) and all the attention from Michelin and their overnight couriers.

But then the level of competition was upped. Riders with a higher degree of skill entered the championship and the wins started to disappear for Rossi. Then the performance of the bikes were becoming more equal due to new testing limits. Rossi knew that he needed such advantages to win, so when he percieved that a rival had a tyre advantage he demanded a switch, mid year, to the same tyres his rival was using. Didn't work. That switch also led to another reason behind his dwindling number of wins, a control tyre.
Rossi is not a dumb guy, he saw all this happening, so he had to do what he could to protect any last advantages he had. Hence his demand for the infamous wall down the center of the Yamaha garage to protect his settings data from who he was most threatened by, the bloke on equal machinery.

In short, bring the bikes back to a more level playing field and introduce some new blood that actually has some ability and no "fear" of Rossi and you get what has happened. Chuck him on a Ducati and you even see his famous mischievous character disappear, funny what happens when things don't go all your way.

As for Rossi vs Stoner, well Stoner won championships on 2 bikes that no other rider was able to, one that no other rider even won a race on. Rossi won championships on one bike that multiple people have won a championship on. Hell, the Yamaha is so good even Spies has had a win on it.
And who here thinks that if Stoner (or Lorenzo) was in Rossi's shoes back in 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 he wouldn't have dominated just as easily/

Oh and Rossi not having anything to prove? I am sorry but HE DOES. Thats why he took the move to Ducati. He wants to prove he is a great and can win on anything. He needs to prove that he was worth all of that money that Ducati are paying him, because they certainly aren't paying him the big bucks to run around mid field.
I am sure he was also eyeing off Agos record so that he could be the undisputed GOAT. If he had stayed with Yamaha, breaking the record was achievable. Its looking pretty safe at the moment though.

As for the 105 wins to 40, thats not telling the whole story either. How many wins has Rossi had since Stoner joined MotoGP? A lot less than 40, despite being on better machinery than Stoner!

I dont think he does, if he never wins another race again im sure he'd be content being 2nd only to ago and TBH even in 2009 when he got his 100th beating agos record looked difficult, now its looking impossible.

The stats thing was just to show that the stats only tell part of the story. (but he does still have 65 to go)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grady

As for Rossi vs Stoner, well Stoner won championships on 2 bikes that no other rider was able to, one that no other rider even won a race on. Rossi won championships on one bike that multiple people have won a championship on. Hell, the Yamaha is so good even Spies has had a win on it.
And who here thinks that if Stoner (or Lorenzo) was in Rossi's shoes back in 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 he wouldn't have dominated just as easily/

Ture but the yamaha wasn't always the best bike, and even if you want to say its was better then everyone said he was still up against all of Honda.

True but the yamaha wasn't always the best bike, and even if you want to say its was better then everyone said he was still up against all of Honda.

As was Stoner while he was on the Ducati.

I do believe the Yamaha is a better bike than most think. Just from observation it appears supremely stable through the whole corner compared to the other bikes. And from results, 2 championships with different riders, wins captured on it by 3 different riders, and if you remove Stoner from last years results you have a Yamaha comfortably in the lead (way ahead of the other Hondas).

The Yamaha was not the high corner speed top handling machine it is now when Rossi first joined. I'm no Rossi fan boy, I'm Aussie and a big stoner fan. But Rossi is a top rider, he wasn't being blown away by Lorenzo back in 2010 before he broke his leg. But he was being pushed harder than he ever had before. He is one of the best development riders and burgess is the best in the business. But they underestimated the Ducati in a bi way. I hope they bring it up to the level of the others how good would it be to have 6-8 bikes fighting for the win (the tech 3 yams are looking quick)

The Yamaha was not the high corner speed top handling machine it is now when Rossi first joined.

It pretty much was when he joined in 2004. It wasn't the year before though. Rossi arrived at the Yamaha camp just in time for Furusawa's cross plane crank. Do not forget that Honda enforced Rossis contract right up until the end, so he hadn't even thrown a leg over the Yamaha until January 2004. By then the bike had already been built, so Rossi couldn't participate in its first tests.

When Rossi showed up for his first tests for Yamaha Furusawa had three bikes for him to try, one basically the 2003 bike with a new frame, one being an evolution of the 2003 bike, then another with the revised frame and the now famous cross plane crank. The cross plane crank motor was developed in secret from some at Yamaha because Furusawa knew it would upset the traditionalists as he was not only moving to a 90 degree crank but also moving away from Yamaha's preferred 5 valve per cylinder configuration to a 4 valve head.

Rossi rode all three bikes and chose the cross plane crank engine in the new frame that Furusawa had built. They then had three months to set it up for the first race in South Africa, which they won. But to suggest Rossi had anything to do with the new frame or the new engine is wrong. Rossi has admitted as much himself. Obviously he made the right call on which bike to pursue, but Furusawa was already planning the cross plane crank motor and new frame in 2003 before Rossi even signed with them. Again, to suggest Rossi had any more input other than "this feels better than that" is fantasy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by melbbiker

But Rossi is a top rider, he wasn't being blown away by Lorenzo back in 2010 before he broke his leg.

By that point in 2010 Lorenzo was developing a comfortable lead for that early in the championship. You could wonder whether it was Rossi pushing himself too far, in an effort to try and keep up with Lorenzo at his home race, that casused his mistake and subsequent broken leg.

I miss the battles Rossi would bring to the table. Some people are saying he doesn't have the balls to ride wild on the Duct...well he certainly had them on his previous bikes (laguna corkscrew vs stoner).

I hope he and Nicky both break off the chain and place podium finishes...time will tell

By that point in 2010 Lorenzo was developing a comfortable lead for that early in the championship. You could wonder whether it was Rossi pushing himself too far, in an effort to try and keep up with Lorenzo at his home race, that casused his mistake and subsequent broken leg.

Only a 9 point lead but Lorenzo was on a charge in the 1st half of the season, they were very closely matched though.
Its a shame we didn't get to see Rossi Vs Lorenzo all season, i think it would have still been Lorenzo's year but the battles would have been epic.