peeker643 wrote:Did they just hire a guy as HC that they fired as OC 4 years ago because of his offensive coaching background?

In a nutshell is that what this organization just did? And yeah, I know four years ago was 6 regimes ago and it's hard to keep track, but will a historian tell me they hired as HC a guy they fired four years ago as OC (but who they paid through last year)?

Back when I actually gave a shit, these boards would have been littered with my vitriolic rantings and profane assessments of the organization.

Now, all I can bring myself to manage is a big "feh" (and I am taking this as a sign of personal growth!)

Whatever Jimmy-Joe. We have sucked, we do suck, and we will suck. Ad infinitum.

ETA: At least I am comfortable knowing that I will never need to change my sig line. Thanks to Nostradamus CDT.

Last edited by mattvan1 on Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

I don't need to be patient, they're going to be shit forever. - CDT, discussing my favorite NFL team

peeker643 wrote:Did they just hire a guy as HC that they fired as OC 4 years ago because of his offensive coaching background?

In a nutshell is that what this organization just did? And yeah, I know four years ago was 6 regimes ago and it's hard to keep track, but will a historian tell me they hired as HC a guy they fired four years ago as OC (but who they paid through last year)?

Also a guy whose roots go back to the Butch Davis/Miami Hurricanes coaching tree.

Galley Boys are slop on top of a so-so burger and a bun you coulde get from a Covneninet food mart generic pack. They the Antoine Joubert of burgers; soft, sloppy, oozing grease and cheap sauce and extremely overrated by a biased fan base. Proof that if you throw enough cheap sauce shit on a burger you still can't overcome the lame burger. -JB

Chud is a guy that for every stop in his OC resume, has been a top 10 offense. Everyone saying, "Yes, but he has Cam Newton" needs to realize that Cam was a rookie, never played in a pro style offense, and had about 1 wideout worth half a shit, and that wideout is the size of Tom Cruise.

Easy to cherry pick stats for Norv, but he's been widely respected as an OC and has had a top scoring offense for 4 of his last 5 years; also has a history of knowing what a functional offense is supposed to look like. His decision making as an OC is bollox and his GM has been steadily sinking his team from a talent perspective every year. He's fine as an OC candidate.

Lombardi is a sack of shit and his hire is going to seriously drive me insane, and so is the switch to a 3-4. Chud and Norv are two positive steps forward though, at this point.

Check me out at Dawgsbynature, where I write stuff, or @twitter as Josh Finney.

peeker643 wrote:Did they just hire a guy as HC that they fired as OC 4 years ago because of his offensive coaching background?

In a nutshell is that what this organization just did? And yeah, I know four years ago was 6 regimes ago and it's hard to keep track, but will a historian tell me they hired as HC a guy they fired four years ago as OC (but who they paid through last year)?

Peek I think it's a little unfair to cherry pick 2008 off Chud's resume but not give him credit for 2007. We went through 4 QB's in 08 and they were named Anderson, Quinn, Dorsey and Gradkowski. We also had the Winslow suspension and all his drama that year as well. Plus the team sucked overall and it became a lame duck situation the last half of the year (if I remember correctly, they made it back to .500 after starting 0-3 and then crashed at the end - just checked, they were 3-4 before the injuries/Winslow suspension/sucking fully took over).

Not saying he's a great hire, but if you site 08 as a reason to not hire him, I think it's fair to site 07 as a reason to support the hire.

peeker643 wrote:Did they just hire a guy as HC that they fired as OC 4 years ago because of his offensive coaching background?

In a nutshell is that what this organization just did? And yeah, I know four years ago was 6 regimes ago and it's hard to keep track, but will a historian tell me they hired as HC a guy they fired four years ago as OC (but who they paid through last year)?

The payroll guys missed him.

Bring Romeo back as DC and we can forget 2009-2012 ever happened.

That would be so many levels of awesome. Except for the results of course. But the dramedy would far outweigh the shit-ball.

Runs a vertical offense, which he has the personnel for now. (although I think he'll look to replace Watson with a better option at TE to pair with Cam) They both know how to balance an O, and the best comp to the scheme I can see is Payton down in Nola.

Check me out at Dawgsbynature, where I write stuff, or @twitter as Josh Finney.

Serious question for the more x and o guys, how many of our front 7 can fit into a 3-4. Taylor able to play NT? Winn and Rubin as DE's? Sheard's out I would assume. The LB's already suck anyway, so now we'd need 3 instead of 2.

Most likely the D-line stays consistent, with Taylor/Rubin/Winn playing 1-gap lineman and they move Sheard to outside backer, like they did with Mathis at Indy this year. They'll have to pick up another outside backer to pair with him, and potentially a middle backer to go with DQ unless they feel JmJ has the size/athleticism to move inside.

Most likely that pick with #6 and the 3rd rounder go to Linebackers, they work with the D-lineman they have now, and they hope to pick up a backer or two in FA. Our front seven was seriously mediocre this year, but a full 3-4 rebuild is going to take a few years to be respectable.

e0y2e3 wrote:Uhm, Grady, you do understand Carolina doesn't run a Pro offense? Chud's great tuttelage the last two years has been "GO GET EM CAM!!!" Shotgun sets and free to do whatever he wants.

The guy barely calls plays.

Seems they put a lot more of the read option elements in THIS year; rumor has it that he had two separate playbooks for the offense last year, one of which involved more traditional sets and the other had a lot more of the read option.

I've also heard the opposite, re:playcalling.....they say his systems are overly complex and the offense had a hard time digesting it at the beginning of the season, and started overthinking vs. read/react.

Bottom line, you're talking about a guy that has had success with DA, Rivers, and Cam.....three wildly different types of QB's.

My problem with the hire is the defense/front office side of business, I think the offense will be just fine. They can actually play a normative current scheme that utilizes the talent they actually have vs. an archaic "scheme" that is a poor fit for the talent.

Check me out at Dawgsbynature, where I write stuff, or @twitter as Josh Finney.

This is a terrible choice and it doesn't surprise me that Browns fans will talk themselves into liking it. Just as important as being an Xs and Os guy is being a leader. This dude is not a leader and evidence of that is never getting a good sniff at being a coach the whole time he has been in the league.

The only consolation is that he is a better choice than Whisenhunt. So, at least there is that to be happy about.

Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:There's things to like about Chud. There's things that have me scratching my head. But he doesn't send off the 'uh oh' alarms like Whisenhunt and Zimmer, so he's got that going for him.

Really?

The fact he was fired here for having a shitty offense and his QB regressing and Carolina's offense and QB regressed like hell in 2012 isn't an 'uh oh' bell?

Maybe your bells need calibrated.

Whatever. Always a majority of Browns fans gonna lap up what the team dribbles out. It's what fills that place every Sunday and keeps them the town's favorite son, despite the fact that they're basically the oldest, favorite son who still lives at home, can't hold a job, does nothing right and rifles through mom's drawers for cash and her xanax.

I'm sure he'll be great.

As an aside, I'm selling my seats in Sec119 again this coming year. 15 rows up. Great, great view of this impending powerhouse led by this dynamic young coach. Tickets are $1100 for two of them. Let me know just who can't consider not being there for it all. And hey, I have Square. You got a credit card or debit card and we can get this done.

Toxicadam wrote:This is a terrible choice and it doesn't surprise me that Browns fans will talk themselves into liking it. Just as important as being an Xs and Os guy is being a leader. This dude is not a leader and evidence of that is never getting a good sniff at being a coach the whole time he has been in the league.

The only consolation is that he is a better choice than Whisenhunt. So, at least there is that to be happy about.

Maybe you should read a little bit more. He had three interviews last year, and has been an assistant HC in at least two of his stops.

Check me out at Dawgsbynature, where I write stuff, or @twitter as Josh Finney.

Quote from one of the Dawgsbynature guys (who's a great X's and O's guy) about moving from the 4-3 to a 3-4.

"I am trying to find another image with a one gap 3-4 but no luck so far. Just look at this one above [attached], though, and picture that instead of the DE on the right, just call him an OLB and stand him up. Then, instead of “DT” just call him a DE. Bam, there’s your 3-4.

Phil Taylor is the guy we just stopped calling a DT and started calling a DE, and Sheard is the guy we stood up and started calling an OLB. Winn or Rucker would be the DE who we called a DE to begin with.

Barwin, Spencer, and Phillips all fit as the SLB, as do a lot of guys slated to go in the draft."

*This is all contingent on a 1-gap "attacking" 3-4 versus a 2 gap, which is what we ran with Rob Ryan.

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Check me out at Dawgsbynature, where I write stuff, or @twitter as Josh Finney.

peeker643 wrote:Whatever. Always a majority of Browns fans gonna lap up what the team dribbles out. It's what fills that place every Sunday and keeps them the town's favorite son, despite the fact that they're basically the oldest, favorite son who still lives at home, can't hold a job, does nothing right and rifles through mom's drawers for cash and her xanax.

Less than 24 hours and you already have him pegged as the next Shurmur. Are you and Lee in contest with each other to see who can be the bigger optimism vampire?

"The fucking Who...... If I want to watch old people run around ill go set fire to a nursing home." - CDT

Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:There's things to like about Chud. There's things that have me scratching my head. But he doesn't send off the 'uh oh' alarms like Whisenhunt and Zimmer, so he's got that going for him.

Really?

The fact he was fired here for having a shitty offense and his QB regressing and Carolina's offense and QB regressed like hell in 2012 isn't an 'uh oh' bell?

Maybe your bells need calibrated.

Whatever. Always a majority of Browns fans gonna lap up what the team dribbles out. It's what fills that place every Sunday and keeps them the town's favorite son, despite the fact that they're basically the oldest, favorite son who still lives at home, can't hold a job, does nothing right and rifles through mom's drawers for cash and her xanax.

I'm sure he'll be great.

As an aside, I'm selling my seats in Sec119 again this coming year. 15 rows up. Great, great view of this impending powerhouse led by this dynamic young coach. Tickets are $1100 for two of them. Let me know just who can't consider not being there for it all. And hey, I have Square. You got a credit card or debit card and we can get this done.

I was on my way to jump of a bridge when i relized i had Chud confused with Daboll. Probably the fact that i had filed them both away as former OC that i dont give a shit about but when you look at his hx he scored points with two QB's that had a hard time with their names. He doesnt make Weeds any more accurate but Im willing to bet the O and QB play will be vastly improved because we can at lease add deep ball to the middle to the playbook

peeker643 wrote:Whatever. Always a majority of Browns fans gonna lap up what the team dribbles out. It's what fills that place every Sunday and keeps them the town's favorite son, despite the fact that they're basically the oldest, favorite son who still lives at home, can't hold a job, does nothing right and rifles through mom's drawers for cash and her xanax.

Less than 24 hours and you already have him pegged as the next Shurmur. Are you and Lee in contest with each other to see who can be the bigger optimism vampire?

Look, here's the facts: Chud killed the career's of two high talent RBs in Carolina, tried to kill Cam's through the first half of the season this year and didn't have any success this year until Cam was cut free and let to just be a *leadpipin it* PLAYA for the last half of the season.

Who in the fuck knows what Chud is going to be. I mean Tomlin was a big bag of nothing, shit like this happens. WiseCunt, Zim, Chud, this year's coaching circuit once the college guys went back home was about as shitty as you'll ever see. But spare me this entire load of "TOP TEN OFFENSES!!!~$!!" A fucking blind man saw the smoke and mirrors that was that DA offense and he's been a pretty big bag of "CAM make an amazing play and make me look smart!%$!%!" in Carolina. They guy is 1/100th the offensive mind of a Kelly.

I don't know what the fuck Chud will end up with, but I do know the paramount rational people have behind being optimistic is "HEY, HE'S NOT PAT (<-- a replacement for HEY, HE'S NOT MANGINI)" and "YOU DON'T KNOW HE'S GOING TO BE BAD, JUST GIVE HIM A CHANCE, NEENER, NEENER!!!!"

peeker643 wrote:Whatever. Always a majority of Browns fans gonna lap up what the team dribbles out. It's what fills that place every Sunday and keeps them the town's favorite son, despite the fact that they're basically the oldest, favorite son who still lives at home, can't hold a job, does nothing right and rifles through mom's drawers for cash and her xanax.

Seems to me there's just as many who instantly hate everything no matter what. I know we've been programmed to think everything the Browns do will be a failure, but I'm at least trying to take the wait and see approach.

That's all I've seen this morning is people ragging on Chud, the Browns, Haslem, Banner, a potential theoritical switch to a 3-4 reported by MKC iron clad sources, etc.

You think they're going to suck, fine. But going off on it is just as bad as the people chanting Super Bowl and starting playoff threads when we're 4-8.

Just wait and see.

Last edited by neoleo on Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

When the Browns began their pursuit for their new head coach, they talked confidently about attracting a top candidate and a visionary leader. The Browns explained that they wanted to hire a head coach first because he was going to have a bigger role in personnel matters.

Owner Jimmy Haslam and chief executive officer Joe Banner promoted this search as if they were going to get Nick Saban, Chip Kelly, Bill Cowher or Jon Gruden. Instead, late Thursday night, the Browns announced they hired "Chud."

Rob Chudzinski, the Panthers' offensive coordinator, will be introduced as the Browns' head coach on Friday. You can read that last sentence again and it's still not going to change. It's a surprise and a letdown all rolled up into one confusing announcement. I'm not guaranteeing that Chudzinski will fail. I'm not saying he's a bad choice. Chudzinski simply wasn't the coach that the Browns were talking about when the search began 11 days ago. That's where the disappointment comes from. .........................

...........

Haslam certainly placed his stamp on the franchise with this hire and it's a big ol' question mark. If you didn't know better, you would think this was a hire by the old regime, not the new one. Maybe that's the biggest surprise of them all.

^ yes, the Browns certainly did that!!! Yessir!!!! This isn't a failure because no one was interested in working with the Redneck and his asshat in Cleveland!!!!

Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:Less than 24 hours and you already have him pegged as the next Shurmur. Are you and Lee in contest with each other to see who can be the bigger optimism vampire?

So you want the tickets?

Let me know where we can meet to get it done.

And yes, that's what I said. I said clearly up thread he's the next Shurmur. That's what you took out of the undeniable facts that his offenses and QBs regressing substantially with DA and Cam in Cleveland and in Carolina. That's what you take out of the undisputed facts of this org hiring him four years after firing him.

But seriously, it's perfect really. Your post and pics are the perfect representation of Cleveland Browns fan. Wipe the goo off your chin and take a bow.

As Lee said, no idea what he'll do here. He could be General Patton when we look back. But the facts are he was fired here because he was meh and he was meh in Carolina with a very good 2011 and a very bad 2012.

It doesn't surprise me in the least that Browns Fan is fine with him. They're fine with everything.

Rob Chudzinski, the Panthers' offensive coordinator, will be introduced as the Browns' head coach on Friday. You can read that last sentence again and it's still not going to change. It's a surprise and a letdown all rolled up into one confusing announcement. I'm not guaranteeing that Chudzinski will fail. I'm not saying he's a bad choice. Chudzinski simply wasn't the coach that the Browns were talking about when the search began 11 days ago. That's where the disappointment comes from. .........................

e0y2e3 wrote:Have people watched Cam over the last 7 weeks? Because dude's been brilliant.

Just curious, do you think you can really have it both ways?

You can't say Cam was all that and give zero credit to Chud. There were some balanced games in there, and yeah Cam played well. Plus let's be fair & objective, look at some of those teams they played and beat, and even lost to, they even lost to KC. Which is also to say maybe Cam is playa who doesn't do well with a set platform, who knows he's been pretty up & down in his short career.

Go ahead and pretend to be the only guy that's a fan of the Browns, but really a fan of another team, that watches the Panthers on a regular basis, nobody cares. And the insistence on this "he ruined awesome RBs", it's a QB league, I'm pretty sure you even infringe on Lead's copyright on that.

Chud is a questionable hire, like 98.5% of most first time hires, and really, exactly what proven coach with an A+ resume and SB rings did they miss out on this year?

Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect."I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

Maybe I missed it eye, but I don't remember the Browns saying they were trying to make a splash. That was a bunch of Mary Kay, PD, media bull shit to me, drummed up by the fact they interviewed Kelly so early.

They talked about wanting a leader (you can argue if that's Chud or not) and being sure they took the needed amount of time to find the right guy, but never anything about making a splash. Again, correct me if I'm wrong here but I don't recall those words ever coming from the Browns.

Also, the quoted article from ESPN gets the reasoning wrong on why they stated they wanted to hire the coach first. The article says it was to give the coach personnel power, when in fact they said it was in order to keep the available pool of coaching candidates open. They didn't want to hire a GM/personnel guy first and have a good option for coach not want to come here. They said all along that if they got a coach with little personnel experience, they would then go out to find a more experienced GM to compliment the coach.

Argue all you want about Chud not being the right candidate, but let's not let the lazy media people aid in that argument.

e0y2e3 wrote:You seriously missed that press conference and the Browns quotes? Like really? You did?

And they also made it clear their first goal was to hire a coach who would have a role in the personnel side of things.

Pretending like they didn't fail at EVERY SINGLE THING THEY SAID THEY WOULD DO is a giant load of Neener, Neener!!!!

I watched the words come out of Banner's mouth that the coach needs to be involved in personnel matters (like Tomlin is in Pitt even though he's not widely regarded as a "personnel guy"), and that it was semantics of what the media was calling "final say". Banner cleared that up by saying the final 53 and who was active would be the coaches role. But he also said that who would be involved in actually drafting the players and signing FA's would depend on who the coach was. If it was a coach who had experience in those matters, then they would give him that power and hire a personnel director to assist him. If it was a coach with little personnel experience, than they would hire a GM with experience to oversee the roster.

Explaining the difference in those two options was pretty clear, and also clearly doesn't say "WE'RE ONLY GOING TO MAKE A FLASHY HIRE AND GIVE HIM FULL POWER AND NOTHING ELSE!". So no, I never heard those words and I think it's either media people making shit up and fans believing it, or people misinterpreting what was said at the press conference.

e0y2e3 wrote:You seriously missed that press conference and the Browns quotes? Like really? You did?

And they also made it clear their first goal was to hire a coach who would have a role in the personnel side of things.

Pretending like they didn't fail at EVERY SINGLE THING THEY SAID THEY WOULD DO is a giant load of Neener, Neener!!!!

Well, in this case, what the fuck did you want HasBan to do? They swung and missed at Kelly, and in the mean time, lost out on Maronne. O' Brien wasn't an option. Option A through C were immediately off the board, after they made their best effort. (Unless you're somehow suggesting they didn't make the best effort they could for Kelly, and giving him personnel control was a pretty good effort)

Out of the next crop of what was available, I think they picked a guy that has a solid body of work (agree to disagree that he did a poor job in Carolina) and has actually enjoyed the only marginal success WE'VE had, at the NFL level, in 10 years.

Jeering them for failing, with the product that they were offering, might make ya feel better but ultimately I don't think they had a better option. Very easy to repeat the "Browns suck and fail at everything, etc etc"Couple that with the fact that he appears poised to bring in capable assistants and that he's shown an ability to adapt his offense to the people running it, and I think you've got some promise. Fuck yeah, I would have preferred Kelly. With the options left on the table, I think they made the right choice. (Would have been happy with Trestman or Lovie too)

Either way, they needed someone. They picked a guy considered a bright, offensive innovator who is young and passionate. Higher floor than anyone but Lovie, and a decent ceiling.

If Lombardi comes in and has control of the draft, we're going to see a 2008 redux. They need to continue building through the draft and making positive decisions, and there's not a person on this board that thinks he's capable of that.

Check me out at Dawgsbynature, where I write stuff, or @twitter as Josh Finney.

Also, for anyone who says "Didn't we fire this guy because our offense sucked in 2008?" I want them to look at the stats for that season:

We started 3-4, despite a gimpy Winslow, a hurt Braylon who had at least one debilitating drop a game, an aged Jlew, and w/o Jurevicious.

The league got a book on DA and forced him to throw underneath touch passes, which he proved completely incapable of doing.

You had Romeo managing the game.

Anyone who expected more than 5 wins in that scenario is kidding themselves. A lot of the demons of that team was from Savage, who drafted poorly and went bananas in free agency.....Banner could potentially provide a stabilizing force, there.

Check me out at Dawgsbynature, where I write stuff, or @twitter as Josh Finney.

I'm actually waiting with bated breath for the presser and the next 2 weeks of action; I imagine we get our GM in place in the next week, as well as hiring a DC. Those two things should really set the table for what we can expect in the next year.

Check me out at Dawgsbynature, where I write stuff, or @twitter as Josh Finney.

All of this is just static. If (when) they stumble out of the gate in September and attribute it to growing pains or some other line of crap it will be SSDD. A solid start to September-October would really resonate some hope. That being said it has been too many reboots and too little results for this old fan. I will observe from a safe distance.

Gradysmanldy wrote:Also, for anyone who says "Didn't we fire this guy because our offense sucked in 2008?" I want them to look at the stats for that season:

We started 3-4, despite a gimpy Winslow, a hurt Braylon who had at least one debilitating drop a game, an aged Jlew, and w/o Jurevicious.

The league got a book on DA and forced him to throw underneath touch passes, which he proved completely incapable of doing.

You had Romeo managing the game.

Anyone who expected more than 5 wins in that scenario is kidding themselves. A lot of the demons of that team was from Savage, who drafted poorly and went bananas in free agency.....Banner could potentially provide a stabilizing force, there.

Did he get fired or not? Did the offense blow or not? Did DA's regression begin in '07 or not? Such a bright and engaging mind and it being everyone else's fault, didn't he end up in San Diego as a TE coach? Did Cam regress or not? Did the Panthers regress or not?

Good God, keep Shurmur if you want to to base the coach's failures on the circumstances and rookie QB and turnover and drops and injuries.

Or maybe we're simply happy to finally have a guy not breaking into the head coaching arena with our franchise because he has all that experience being the HMFIC.

Bottom line, if you wanted a retread they were out there. If you wanted a bright, young, innovative offensive mind from a winning program they were out there, if you wanted a respected, no bullshit, proven, defensive minded coordinator whose had three years of success they were out there, and if you wanted a college coach, they were out there.

We got none of it.

That's it. Swallow the Browns shit about it if you want to. A lot of people do, I have for years. But if you're going that route, @MaryKayCabot is a solid twitter follow.

Look we get it, you live for the chance to revel in Cleveland Browns failure, no big deal, but stop presenting this as something that we really don't know what is was.

I mean not hiring Kelly isn't a fail, considering the guy has never been publicly adamant about moving to the NFL pronto and the fact he toyed with another FO recently and one last season.

It's funny, because I laughed at UT this year when they ended up hiring Butch Jones. Butch Jones is a pretty good coach, but he was UT's sixth choice. UT (formerly a top ten job in the nation) has fallen so far they ended up hiring their sixth choice.

The Browns, a good job about a century ago, came out beating their chests and pretending like the new ownership and his sidekick plus all of that cap-space was going to bring about a new era (publically, mind you) and that a top coach would jump at this situation.

The Browns ended up hiring about the sixth guy they interviewed, because no matter how much Banner and Redneck beat their chests about how great an opportunity this it, no one really cared.

The real fun part is that they were DUMB ENOUGH to do all of this publicly.