Mind Control in Canada - radio series - pt 10
In fact the CIA has been extremely helpful, extremely polite, extremely
courteous and when I went to the CIA Reading Room in Washington, it was
a very unusual experience. Let me just tell you the story. Here I am,
a Canadian psychiatrist, going down to the Eastern Regional Conference,
and a day early I pop over to the CIA Reading Room to look at the
MKULTRA documents to figure out which ones I want to order at 10 cents a
page which they then shipped to me which arrives at my office via UPS
with CIA stamped in the corner ... I'm wondering who thinks that's weird
... so I show up and it is just this building in Virginia, on a street,
it is completely unrecognizable as anything ... I get dropped off there
... whoa ... there's all these guys in u niforms and here I am, this
civilian. On the wall there is "Secure Telephone CIA and DIA Only" and I
am kind of standing around and some guy says "Good Morning Sir" ... I
say I am here to read some CIA documents. I am supposed to show up at
this location at this time and here is the letter ... and they're going,
CIA jeez ... who are we going to phone ... are you supposed to tell
somebody you are here, or how is this supposed to work? Well, I don't
know, I was just told to show up here ... he says, well, we don't know
who was supposed to meet you ... so I say, well, could I use your phone
... not that phone ... this phone over here. I phone my secretary and
ask what's the telephone number of the contact person? She gives it to
me and I tell them you're supposed to contact this person at this phone
number. It's okay, they say, they're going to be down in a minute. So
then I sign in ... I am escorted up the elevator ... it's all military
guys and I'm in the elevator thinking okay which one of t hese guys is
doing surveillance on me? I come up to the floor and I am walking along
and it's a federal building and the floor is under repair ... there's
all kinds of construction stuff lying around, and construction guys ...
I go walking along accompanied by this CIA person, and I go into the
first room which has a steel vault door and says "Secured Area: Treasury
Department" ... I go into that room and they close the door. I am now
in a Secured Area. She says Okay sign in here ... I think I signed in
... I forget. Then I go through another Secured steel door into a second
Secured Area except I can't enter that Secured Area except from another
Secured Space. I sit down and they bring in all the documents on a
little cart and she gives me 15-20 pencils beautifully sharpened, and a
notepad and everything ... you order which documents you want at the
end of the day ... and there's a woman who is at least 80, if not 85,
who is a retir ed volunteer, sitting there watching me all day. In the
r oom that I am in, that is a Secured Space has a door opened back to
the hallway that I came down from the elevator to come to the first
Secured Space to go into the ... I am sitting there working away on this
huge amount of documents all day ... work work work work ... some time
in the middle of the day this old woman comes at me, now I am thinking,
is this old woman trying to pump me for information, what's here report
going to be back at the end of the day? She says, "well, what's that
stuff you are reading?" I am trying to act casually, I just say, "Well,
it's just a bunch of mind control documents from the 50's and 60's." And
she says well, is that stuff classified, and I say, no, no, it was
declassified a long time ago, and she says, well what do they need me
here for? I go, I don't know and then I stopped talking to her and I
started focusing down on the paper. So then I get distracted by a couple
of black guys who are walking down the corridor who have something to do
with the construction. The 85 year old woman who is watching me has to
go to the restroom so they are assigned to watch me from the door.
They're some black guys who start joking aroun d, oh oh this guy's
pretty dangerous, we'll have to watch him ... then at the end of the day
I leave. That's my experience at the CIA. But the main contact person is
very friendly, very polite, very efficient, very helpful ... and it's
through this process, I mean they have given me these documents, they
are the ones who have made it possible to prove that the CIA has been
creating Manchurian Candidates ... I have all these other requests on
MKSearch, MKNAOMI, and stuff and I am going to put one in on Stargate.
If you want to do a request on an individual, it turns out that you have
to establish his place and date of birth, his full name, his date of
death, the fact that he was an American citizen, and you have to have
public documentation of his death before they will do a search. Which
is the proper protection of people. So you have to do all of this
background research to find out when did Carl Pfeiffer die, and where
did he died, and get a newspaper clipping from Atlanta to document that.
Then you said all that information into them, and he asks for
information on this particul ar guy and they send you back the MKULTRA
documents that you already have, that you already know is due to him,
except now his name is not whited out. So a lot of it is just dealing
with a Federal Bureaucracy and it's just REALLY REALLY SLOW and they say
... we've only got two secretaries and we've got a million requests and
we are too overloaded and we don't have our new computer system but we
are working on it ... it's it's just a VERY VERY SLOW LABORIOUS PROCESS
TO GET THIS STUFF. If it is already declassified and it is indexed,
then you can get it fairly quickly ... like the MKULTRA stuff. If it is
just being organized and isn't yet declassified, then you get in a line,
and you are piggybacked on top of the first requester. When the first
requester gets the stuff, you will get it as well. MKSEARCH? I have
been waiting for a couple of years already. So it's like ... you're
trying to change the way agriculture is administered in the USA ... it's
this huge laborious process, and you are just trying to egg the
bureacracy on and on and on ... But just to kind of repeat the
editorial comment, basically I don't have a beef with the Intelligence
Agencies. My beef is with the psychiatrists and the psychologists.
Questions or comments? Q. Do I know if I am being surveilled? A. I have
been approached by millions of people at conferences. I don't know if
any of them are operatives or not. I have had no negative, scary,
frightening, intimidations, threats, my office hasn't been broken into,
no mail tampering, nothing has gone missing, no patients have done
anything weird or dangerous towards me, nobody has disappeared, no dead
chickens on my doorstep ... nobody has hustled me into a black car and
all of a sudden I am in Topeka, Kansas and I don't know how I got there.
Nothing like that has happened, so I just assume that if it hasn't
happened by now, it's already too late, like what's the point? Part of
this story, and it is the personal side of it, is, how do you work your
way through all this material and get more and more and more of these
connections and not succumb to terminal paranoia? And it's really just
sort of a Zen ... the Zen of investigating military mind control ... you
just have to stay centered and decide not to be paranoid ... not let it
get to you. Because you can get off into how many witnesses to the JFK
assassination are dead, and what about Pan Am 103, what about Timothy
McVeign's computer chip in his buttock ... you can really get out there
real fast. When he was first arrested, Timothy McVeigh said he had a
computer chip implanted in his buttock ... On the other hand, I hope
Intelligence Agencies are not so fast asleep ... basically ... it is
narcistically injurious to think they are not paying any attention at
all ... I can't take that. I know for a fact they have a file on me
because I have fi led millions of Freedom of Information Act requests.
The other thing I know is I got my Green Card in 1994 at the highest
level of Green Card there is ... it's a level where you don't have to
even have a job ... or any visible sign of support ... and I got this
Immigration lawyer who put my whole c.v., and all my publications, and
letters from people together, and so that involves, obviously, a
security screen by the State Department which means connected to Justice
and connected to FBI etc etc so I know I have been screened through all
that kind of mechanism and come out ... in fact, I had to go to Calgary
for the Green Card and the consulate came up and shook my hand and said,
"boy I bet you we've got a lot if dissociation disorders right here ...
we could really use you." [lots of laughter] Q. unintelligible A. I
think they are trying to pretend that they are not going to get
uncovered and just carry on with life and enjoy their retirements ...
Over all, what's going on now ... I assume that there is still a lot of
research funding through cutouts with unwitting investigators ... I
assume there is a bunch of witting investigators. There is another arm
going on currently ... that's artificial intelligence Overall, what is
going on now? I assume that there is still a lot of funding of research
through cutouts with unwitting investigators. I assume there is a bunch
of witting investigators. Let me tell you about another arm that is
going on currently. That is artificial intelligence research. I know
that, for instance, Marvin Merskey at MIT, in his book, "The Society of
Minds", he acknowledges his extensive Office of Naval Research Funding.
That goes back to John Lilly who is tied into the LSD network who
treated dolphins with LSD - he was involved in communication with
dolphins - it is a documented fact they have been used to swim up to
ships to blow them up - with bombs attached to the dolphins during the
Vietnam War. We hear weird stuff from patients sometimes about dolphins
and mind control. John Lilly is tied into the LSD network and I have
him attending CIA sponsored LSD symposia. He invented the flotation tank
- flotation tank is in network in all the sensory deprivation stuff and
mixed in with hallucinogens. He wrote a program on metaprogramming and
the human computer which is an early artificial intelligence treatise
that basically defines a modularity model of the hu man mind which is
the dominant model of neuronetworks, all that area of artificial
intelligence and a whole bunch of different Office of Naval Research
funding. That is ongoing up to the present ... there is Office of Naval
Research funding for this kind of project ... also for rat physiology,
rat psychology ... research that has to do with modularity of brain
functions and modularity of memory which all is directly relevant to
creating Manchurian Candidates because you want to know the modular
organization of the brain. Q. ____ A. If the hypothesis is that ...
now I am not saying that everybody on the FMSF Advisory Board
consciously is aware of this ... most of them are totally out to lunch
and have never heard of it or thought of it ... the point would be that
the Intelligence Agencies have somehow penetrated the FMS movement and
are trying to spin it in that direction and amplify it for those
purposes and candidate people for Intelligence oversight would be Martin
Orne, Joly West, Richard Ofshe, etc. Maybe Michael Persinger. So if
that is the hypothesis, the basic thing is to cover up government
created Manchurian Candidates, why are all the patients coming in with
SRA stories? Well, that could be just accidentally related and just
part of a cultural hysteria and not real. The other paranoid conspiracy
theory is that the Intelligence Agencies sub-contracted the cults to
prime the children to be good subjects for really really complicated
Manchurian Candidates. Because if you just start with G.I. Joe at age
19, you can't get intensely polyfragmented multi multi layers of defence
system in place very easily. One of the pieces of logic that I didn't
mention is ... if you go back to G.H. Estabrooks in WWII, he is creating
one alter personality in an adult recruit. Let's look at the stages the
computer is at during WWII and run up to 1996. We have to postulate that
the technical advance and the increase in complexity in mind control
research operations is at least somewhat parallel to the complexity of
artificial intelligence, all the rest of science, etc. So if they are
still doing it, it's got to be a lot more complicated. You can't get to
a lot more complicated from a foundation of a normal 18 year old
military recruit ... so that's the ultimate in paranoid conspiracy
theory. It's a matter of putting windows in the program ... the first
window that comes open is the SRA -- the window behind that is the
military mind control. Alternatively the whole SRA thing itself could
be deliberate disinformation that has been implanted in the culture.
Broaden the question a little bit. What's my political recommendation
on what should be the legal liability of government induced Manchurian
Candidates for criminal acts that they have perpetrated? I would say
that we should have a double amnesty program. And this is for strategic
purposes. Politics is the art of the impossible. Some people could say
this is unethical and this is caving in and playing the game. I think we
have to have a double amnesty program for any criminal acts conducted by
government induced Manchurian Candidates in the course of the government
operations-and also amnesty for their handlers. Because if we don't
have that, then the drive to keep it all covered up is too great. My
basic argument is that the Intelligence Community has been sold a bogus
bill of goods by these guys, like G.H. Estabrooks and all his heirs down
the line. It is overkill, it is unnecessary, it's ridiculous ... you can
just dr op it ... and there will be no operational loss. Do I know that
for a fact? I haven't got the faintest idea. But that's what I propose
to them-they could do their own analysis. If we are going to stop it,
and let it come out to the public, that will never happen if the
individual handlers and operators in the Intelligence Community are
going to be nailed in public and personally responsible. So there has to
be a double amnesty program ... but then there has to be financial
compensation for the victims who get identified. That is less likely to
happen if the compensation comes out of the Intelligence budget-
therefore, it ought to come out of general Federal funds-not to reduce
Intelligence funding-otherwise you have set up systemic disincentive for
this stuff to ever be declassified. However, that should not cover drug,
pimping, and other operations run on the side by handlers doing
Manchurian Candidates. Q.__ A. This is an extremely tricky question
that you are asking. Why does a government created multiple get off the
hook and a domestic created multiple doesn't? The domestic created
multiple is not going to be happy. I will give the reason I don't let
the domestic created multiple off the hook-really quickly-it is that it
destroys the foundation of recovery. The foundation of recovery is "you
are not insane, you're not out of control, it's something you created
inside yourself to survive, you can un-learn it, and be well." And part
of healing is being responsible for what you do now. If we don't do
that, the whole unit gets behaviourally out of control. So, like it or
not, we hold people responsible for the behaviour of their alters, and I
don't view DID as grounds for an insanity defence in and of itself. So
then you are going to say, well why doesn't that then apply to these
government created people? Well, I just think it is different. When
you've been delib erately, systematically experimented on by a
government, you deserve a bit of a break for actions which you have
committed as part of your government assignment ... in other words, if
you are a Manchurian Candidate and you are just out in the world and you
go out and rape somebody, good, you do the crime, you do the time,
that's my attitude. I am only talking about crimes that they have
committed, specifically on assignment for the military Intelligence
Agencies. They are basically soldiers at war. Q. __ A. Where does
Charter Hospital fit in? I would like to know if Charter fits in
anywhere. One thing that I would be willing to do, would be to run a
classified unit for treatment of these individuals. I would be very
happy to do that and to negotiate a Management Services Contract with
the Federal government to do that- R. Q. __ A. Does any of my work
support Cory Hammond's talk at the Regional Eastern Conference in 1992
for which he has been attacked and ridiculed about Dr. Green and all
that? Not directly. Indirectly, and when you tie into the Paperclip
conspiracy ... I am getting the documentation much closer to conclusion,
that, if not Dr. Green, some psychological warfare experts must have
been brought over from Nazi Germany. So that part of it is no longer
kooky. I think that Cory Hammond made a strategic error by going too far
out beyond his documentation too fast, and leaving himself exposed to
ridicule. Although I am thankful to him that he did that because then I
learned alternative strategies. Q. ___ A. The whole way that the
tobacco industry is set up ... regulated, not regulated, funded,
lobbied, and the disinformation campaign that it is run by the tobacco
companies-is basically effective-they are still being sold and they are
still making a profit off of killing people. So you could say that's
like a lung control experimentation program that has been run by the
tobacco companies and everybody is just kind of, in effect, letting it
go by. Except actually the medical profession and the public has gotten
on tobacco way more than they have ever gotten on mind control ... but
we will change that with the book and the movie. (Laughter and much
applause)