How would you suggest that we be more in keeping with the message of the Gospel?Would you suggest we remove the Orthodox-Catholic Discussion Forum and merge it with the "Western Rite Orthodox Forum" and secretly ban Roman Catholic posters?

A pink slip in my future?

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As a result of a thousand million years of evolution, the universe is becoming conscious of itself, able to understand something of its past history and its possible future.-- Sir Julian Sorell Huxley FRS

Haven't gotten banned yet, but boy do they love to move posts around. There was one thread in particular that was over the edge anti-Orthodox over "there." Some of us posted in response and you know what? They moved the answers to just enough different "new threads" that the defense argument got split up and the Anti-Orthodoxy still shines. It's funny. On the Eastern Catholic board the posts/threads are to be informative for non-Eastern Catholics. So I WAS Greek Catholic. So why then are the catholics that prefer ancient languages allowed to chime in with their own two cents while not adding solid answers based on years of being an Eastern Catholic? But yet, when those who do have the Easetern Catholic life experience are basically silenced. So it's a place to get answers but those that have the answers and give them without a biased approached are taken out.

Well it has taken me long enough but I have finally earned a one month suspension. Unlike most here I did actually have to push the envelope a bit, so I definitely deserved this. I had responded to spikman asking for assurance about his decision to move towards Orthodoxy, saying:

Well it has taken me long enough but I have finally earned a one month suspension. Unlike most here I did actually have to push the envelope a bit, so I definitely deserved this. I had responded to spikman asking for assurance about his decision to move towards Orthodoxy, saying:I've also had another post deleted where I also mentioned the banning. I'm surprised I didn't receive a caution for that one too.

John, my friend,

If you get by with only a month for that, I'll be most surprised, although Catherine's efforts these days appear to be much taken up with policing threads to assure that topics are split off as often as is necessary to segment discussion.

Many years,

Neil

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"Not only is it unnecessary to adopt the customs of the Latin Rite to manifest one's Catholicism, it is an offense against the unity of the Church."

Well it has taken me long enough but I have finally earned a one month suspension. Unlike most here I did actually have to push the envelope a bit, so I definitely deserved this. I had responded to spikman asking for assurance about his decision to move towards Orthodoxy, saying:I've also had another post deleted where I also mentioned the banning...

The thing to do, I have found, is to make the post knowing it will probably not last long in that state, but send an exact copy by PM to the intended recipient.

If any part of your post is deleted you can be sure the recipient will become very aware of that.Michael

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"Tradition is the living faith of the dead; traditionalism is the dead faith of the living" Jaroslav Pelikan

Regardless of who was brought in, the forum has hit the bottom and landed on spikes.There is no way anyone can man a defence for Orthodox over there now. I guess the war is officially over, especially when they start threads attacking Eastern Orthodox and there isn't any substance to a single post in those threads and I simply can't say anything, I'm going toe-to-toe with the two or three main opinion groups that make up the posts on the forum anymore. I know the responses and I would be lead into citing, referencing and making elaborate replies to the post and they'd just repeat themselves and not argue with any academic style.Example:P:Eastern Orthodox are all ________ ________ because on this date _____ this happened and in _______the great Pope ________ made this comment. Therefore they are out of the church and there is no salvation or grace.. blah blah blah

Response: Enough information to get your master's thesis in front of the judges

P: there is no salvation outside of the church and therefore the Eastern Orthodox have ________ and are _______ because the Pope is ___________ and therefore I'm right and everyone else is wrong

There is no point in wasting time if it isn't going to be read or disputed with a real post!!!!! That is the point of discussion. If that forum wants to look and support attitudes that run contrary to the position of the Roman Catholic Church, then so be it. I know there are plenty of knowledge laden Eastern Catholics that read all of these boards that could add much over there. Because not only are the Orthodox ridiculed the Eastern Catholics are as well. It is a shame when the forum was to revert back to an informational spot for Catholics to learn about the Eastern Rites, which is one thing... but when it turns into a place for attacks by Catholics against Catholics... that's just a whole other box of cigars. And while I am ranting, I have seen the latin-refugee attitude that the Eastern churches are just good enough to escape the mass in the Roman churches, they aren't mindful of the very deep and cultural histories of the churches they use as a feel good place and they aren't respectful enough to learn the different methods of worship or anything about the community. They just demonstrate that it is just another offering on the buffet table of Catholicism they get to choose from whenever one Rite of Worship style tires them. This is not what the Eastern Churches are made for, I can assure you that.They are communities that were formed by and most likely still consist of families who have strong and old country ties to the very existence of the particular sui juris church in the first place. These members are are Greek Catholic/Byzantine Catholic not only by their personal convictions but also by actual historical events that happened to their ancestors. When people go in and use their churches as feel good places it is a mockery of not only the church members beliefs but also their shared heritage. While there is nothing wrong about attending a Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church* as a Latin Catholic one should be mindful of the history of the people and why they have a UGCC and also perhaps more important, or another part of the equation, they should be willing to learn and understand the worship practices of the Byzantine Rite. Anyway, I'm done ranting.

*I chose the UGCC for this example but you could insert any of the Eastern Catholic Churches.Everyone one of them has a history to their existence. For example, besides the historical happenings in the mid to late 1600's the UGCC exists as it does today because the persecution during the Soviet rule created a strong faith among the Ukrainian Catholics and after communism fell the UGCC came out of the catacombs with their faith having been made stronger by the trials they faced. I don't care what a person's argument for or against the Eastern Catholic churches are, you simply can not help but admiring the faith and love for the church despite such persecution. Things to remember, everyone has a story, sometimes the story should be very respected even though you may have different beliefs.

I agree. Isa and myself have been arguing a couple guys in a thread callled "Unstructured Thread". We've been mopping the floor with these guys by buliding arguments cited on historical facts, canons, and scriptures while picking apart their fallacious responses. (A common tactic of theirs has been to throw a dozen quotes at us without even trying to explain what it is they are trying to prove). Anyway, it gets tiring like running around in circles. They are not interested in honest debate only diatribes. I think that I've learned all that I can over there and am ready to take more steps to enter the Orthodox Church.

I agree. Isa and myself have been arguing a couple guys in a thread callled "Unstructured Thread". We've been mopping the floor with these guys by buliding arguments cited on historical facts, canons, and scriptures while picking apart their fallacious responses. (A common tactic of theirs has been to throw a dozen quotes at us without even trying to explain what it is they are trying to prove). Anyway, it gets tiring like running around in circles. They are not interested in honest debate only diatribes. I think that I've learned all that I can over there and am ready to take more steps to enter the Orthodox Church.

And may I add that you and Isa have done a superb job on that thread. You will be an asset to Holy Orthodoxy!

I agree. Isa and myself have been arguing a couple guys in a thread callled "Unstructured Thread". We've been mopping the floor with these guys by buliding arguments cited on historical facts, canons, and scriptures while picking apart their fallacious responses. (A common tactic of theirs has been to throw a dozen quotes at us without even trying to explain what it is they are trying to prove). Anyway, it gets tiring like running around in circles. They are not interested in honest debate only diatribes. I think that I've learned all that I can over there and am ready to take more steps to enter the Orthodox Church.

I just read that thread. I can't believe that poster has not been banned yet. The best part is how calm the Orthodox responses are.

I got to say you Micky, isa, and varc did a most exellent job in defense of holy orthodox on catholic answers non catholic sub-forum.....i just got thru reading your posts.....God bless you all .....keep up the good work .....stashko

Sadly, CA Forum appears to have turned into an anti-Orthodox and anti-Eastern Catholic diatribe.

Isn't that the truth...

I find myself posting less and less on there. Most of the time, I just sit back and watch. Some of the responses really tick me off though, especially when people try to rewrite history. My favorite is when people say the Orthodox left the Church and are therefore schismatic. Oh please! It was Rome who sent them/us (would have been in same boat at that time) away! Even though I am still Catholic, I will certainly not back such false notions or anti-Orthodox sentimates--especially as I seek to be more like an Orthodox under Rome and maybe someday soon (still praying while I study), fully Orthodox

Ah, you gotta love em.I pop into the forums for the first time since my suspension has ended and look what awaits me

Yes, I noticed your return.

I've posted more as it seems that they can't keep a lid on Orthodoxy, at most moving it to "Non-Catholic Forum"

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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.A hasty quarrel kindles fire,and urgent strife sheds blood.If you blow on a spark, it will glow;if you spit on it, it will be put out; and both come out of your mouth

"For, by its immensity, the divine substance surpasses every form that our intellect reaches. Thus we are unable to apprehend it by knowing what it is. Yet we are able to have some knowledge of it by knowing what it is not." - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa contra gentiles, I, 14.

Its all good. We can spend our days there bickering like we do at Catholic Answers. LOL

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"For, by its immensity, the divine substance surpasses every form that our intellect reaches. Thus we are unable to apprehend it by knowing what it is. Yet we are able to have some knowledge of it by knowing what it is not." - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa contra gentiles, I, 14.

Perhaps that is a pre-taste of purgatory? Wait a minute--purgatory does not exist!

It doesn't?

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"For, by its immensity, the divine substance surpasses every form that our intellect reaches. Thus we are unable to apprehend it by knowing what it is. Yet we are able to have some knowledge of it by knowing what it is not." - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa contra gentiles, I, 14.

I think I'm in the right place.....I'd wave but there are no animated smilies here!

Welcome!

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"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."" Isaac Asimov

I had had some points before I was given the boot. I had ten points before I was "locked" out.

I used to post there. I actually posted there until I found this website. I received a warning for coming to the defense of a couple of Orthodox Christians who were responding to some nasty comments that a Roman Catholic poster was leaving on several threads. I had been growing tired of the way Orthodox Christians were being treated there for some time prior to this, so I just stopped posting. The warning was the last straw for me. Before I stopped, though, I sent the moderator a response to her warning, telling her what I thought of what I perceive as the double standard there. Also, too many of the people there are just rude in general. I've been made to feel much more welcome here.

So....where to go from here? I thought perhaps to go to the convert issues board and introduce myself? I certainly do have questions, and I think they can only be answered by Orthodox, for several reasons. I definitely know better (now) than to ask the questions I have on the EC board at CAF.

So....where to go from here? I thought perhaps to go to the convert issues board and introduce myself? I certainly do have questions, and I think they can only be answered by Orthodox, for several reasons. I definitely know better (now) than to ask the questions I have on the EC board at CAF.

Go ahead and ask you questions in Convert Issues or Faith, as appropriate, and we'll do our best to be helpful and find answers for you. If you feel comfortable, don't be afraid to ask your questions in any of the fora which may be appropriate (i.e. a Liturgical question in Liturgy, etc). If you start a thread in a place that maybe doesn't make sense to the moderators, fear not - we'll move the thread and leave behind a re-direct post so you know where it went.

If you have any more questions about how things run here on OC.net, just ask here, or PM me.

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"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."" Isaac Asimov

So....where to go from here? I thought perhaps to go to the convert issues board and introduce myself? I certainly do have questions, and I think they can only be answered by Orthodox, for several reasons. I definitely know better (now) than to ask the questions I have on the EC board at CAF.

Welcome!Have a read of the descriptions under each forum title and see where your post might go best. Don't worry too much if you're not sure if it's in the right place, because a moderator will move it to where it belongs if it isn't.Just be aware that our board will shut down for Clean Monday (first day of Orthodox Lent) to give us all a chance for prayer and reflection (see this post in "Board News")

« Last Edit: March 09, 2008, 07:55:35 PM by ozgeorge »

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If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.

So....where to go from here? I thought perhaps to go to the convert issues board and introduce myself? I certainly do have questions, and I think they can only be answered by Orthodox, for several reasons. I definitely know better (now) than to ask the questions I have on the EC board at CAF.

Welcome! I was Greek Catholic and spent a lot of time in the Ruthenian parish as they had the Feast day liturgies, pre-sanctified liturgies etc.... So feel free to bounce questions towards me as I can relate to you and know where you are coming from. As a matter of fact it was one of the posters here (also from my area) who helped push me off the fence into Orthodoxy. She's now family to me. So welcome to the board! You can also private message me as well if you have a question you aren't comfortable asking in the public forum. But I agree with you. You have to have solid non-polemical answers at this point. I know you won't get them from the CAF forums. Many of them are roman catholics of the latin rite who wouldn't know a Ruthenian Byzantine Catholic Church if they wrecked their car into its narthex. But somehow they read four articles on new advent and they're experts. I also grew up in a split family, half Catholic half Orthodox. I am well aware of both worlds through and through. I also know the doctrinal differences of the Greek/Byzantine Catholics and the Orthodox. What I am saying is, I can help you with your questions. If you give me one that I can't answer believe me I can get the answer for you.

Welcome! I was Greek Catholic and spent a lot of time in the Ruthenian parish as they had the Feast day liturgies, pre-sanctified liturgies etc.... So feel free to bounce questions towards me as I can relate to you and know where you are coming from. As a matter of fact it was one of the posters here (also from my area) who helped push me off the fence into Orthodoxy. She's now family to me. So welcome to the board! You can also private message me as well if you have a question you aren't comfortable asking in the public forum. But I agree with you. You have to have solid non-polemical answers at this point. I know you won't get them from the CAF forums. Many of them are roman catholics of the latin rite who wouldn't know a Ruthenian Byzantine Catholic Church if they wrecked their car into its narthex. But somehow they read four articles on new advent and they're experts. I also grew up in a split family, half Catholic half Orthodox. I am well aware of both worlds through and through. I also know the doctrinal differences of the Greek/Byzantine Catholics and the Orthodox. What I am saying is, I can help you with your questions. If you give me one that I can't answer believe me I can get the answer for you.

thanks (again!) I had a good chuckle over your characterization of the folks over at CAF. I have friends like that; very interested in learning *about* the Eastern Churches, even attending the liturgies etc., but when it comes to *being* Eastern, well, so sorry but they'll stick to their Rosaries and Stations, Exposition & Benediction, they are breathing with both lungs.....I can't do it that way, it's an all or nothing (not that I think the above-mentioned are wrong, but the popular devotions of the latin rite have never really struck a chord with me. And the recent changes in the Ruthenian DL are a step away from authenticity IMHO. So it is to the Orthodox I must come for education.)

I must protest. LOL! CAF gathered its smilies from a variety of free sources. I was on there at the time when they added a lot of new and quite good smilies. They asked us to help find them.Here, have a shamrock for Saint Patrick's day

I definitely know better (now) than to ask the questions I have on the EC board at CAF.

To be perfectly honest, I've come to be fairly skeptical (cynical?) about internet discussion forums. Nevertheless, I would definitely call oc-net a step-up from CAF -- to take just the most obvious consideration, oc-net moderators don't resort to secretly banning posters they don't like.

To quote Ralph and Kermit: "I hope that something better comes along" (The Muppet Movie). Until that time, you can be sure that it will be oc-net and not CAF I'll be posting on.

Welcome! I was Greek Catholic and spent a lot of time in the Ruthenian parish as they had the Feast day liturgies, pre-sanctified liturgies etc.... So feel free to bounce questions towards me as I can relate to you and know where you are coming from. As a matter of fact it was one of the posters here (also from my area) who helped push me off the fence into Orthodoxy. She's now family to me. So welcome to the board! You can also private message me as well if you have a question you aren't comfortable asking in the public forum. But I agree with you. You have to have solid non-polemical answers at this point. I know you won't get them from the CAF forums. Many of them are roman catholics of the latin rite who wouldn't know a Ruthenian Byzantine Catholic Church if they wrecked their car into its narthex. But somehow they read four articles on new advent and they're experts. I also grew up in a split family, half Catholic half Orthodox. I am well aware of both worlds through and through. I also know the doctrinal differences of the Greek/Byzantine Catholics and the Orthodox. What I am saying is, I can help you with your questions. If you give me one that I can't answer believe me I can get the answer for you.

Dupa. Now there's a term I haven't heard in years.

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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.A hasty quarrel kindles fire,and urgent strife sheds blood.If you blow on a spark, it will glow;if you spit on it, it will be put out; and both come out of your mouth

Haven't been over here for a few weeks because of some demands on my time and haven't read CAF much of late - the latter because, as several of my friends have noted, it is so incredibly depressing - particularly the EC forum. However, I did stop and skim it a few days ago and it's gotten so much worse that it's scary. You've got folks over there presenting themselves as "expert" and who have no idea what they are talking about.

There's a relative newbie there named belgianwaffles or somesuch who posts with regular reference to how "knowledgeable" he is. Then, one reads a post in which he asserts, unequivocably, as to how Mar Dinkha is about to lead the Assyrian Church into communion with Rome. It was so frustrating to not be able to put fingers to keyboard and point out to the idiot that Mar Bawai is a decidedly different person than Mar Dinkha. And that's only the tip of the iceberg. (The same clown has declared his assuredness that my Church is 'the most latinized' of the EC Churches; he's admittedly never been in one, but thinks he'll check one out during school break and see what latinizations he can spot).

Despite the fact that CAF has picked up the occasional input of a couple of excellent posters from ByzCath (one Deacon, in particular), as Michael noted, none of them seem to be looking beyond the immediate post and seeing the overall flawed nature of the place. It's my sense that they've been 'lured' there in response to a "help, we need some knowledgeable ECs" - but, for the majority of them, ByzCath is still "home"; they'll contribute to CAF from a sense of duty to defend/promote their Churches, but they aren't 'moving in' to become the resident CAF Eastern experts.

The small coterie of Oriental Catholics there are trying to hold there own and helped a bit by the fact that they're too 'foreign' to most of the clueless Latins to be the subject of much attention. Other than the ByzCath imports, and a few ByzCath folk who have long posted there occasionally (like Al/a pilgrim - a dear friend to both Michael and me), the landscape is pretty barren. As before, I thank those few of my Orthodox friends and brothers who are still there for stepping in to try and keep some semblance of accuracy in countering the "facts" offered by those whose knowledge of East is principally that it's a compass marking. It would be a blessing were they to shut that forum down - it offers so little in terms of meaningful, accurate info about Eastern Catholicism that Keating should consider its continued existence an embarrassment.

Many years,

Neil

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"Not only is it unnecessary to adopt the customs of the Latin Rite to manifest one's Catholicism, it is an offense against the unity of the Church."

. . . It would be a blessing were they to shut that forum down - it offers so little in terms of meaningful, accurate info about Eastern Catholicism that Keating should consider its continued existence an embarrassment.

Many years,

Neil

I agree.

God bless,Todd

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"All that the Father has belongs likewise to the Son, except Causality." St. Gregory Nazianzen

"We should believe that divine grace is present in the icon of Christ and that it communicates sanctification to those who draw near with faith."St. Theodore Studite

The small coterie of Oriental Catholics there are trying to hold there own and helped a bit by the fact that they're too 'foreign' to most of the clueless Latins to be the subject of much attention.

That's right. Any Catholic who holds to the actual teachings of the Church is clueless. I am so sick of this East= Good, West = Bad attitude. Especially when you consider the fact that it is the West that has always remained orthodox.

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"For, by its immensity, the divine substance surpasses every form that our intellect reaches. Thus we are unable to apprehend it by knowing what it is. Yet we are able to have some knowledge of it by knowing what it is not." - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa contra gentiles, I, 14.

That's right. Any Catholic who holds to the actual teachings of the Church is clueless. I am so sick of this East= Good, West = Bad attitude. Especially when you consider the fact that it is the West that has always remained orthodox.

Been looking at that and trying to make sense of it - I know my brain is not at it's best at the moment but .....

As to that other place - I can't get over some of the daft things that are being posted at present - too many folk are just going to get really 100% confused .

As to that Belgian Waffles person - I'm longing to see the finished work on the Eastern Churches - I think it will be as confusing as anything he/she/it has posted.

Agreed - time it was shut down

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"Never let anyone try to tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern. The West was fully Orthodox for a thousand years; and her venerable liturgy is far older than any of her heresies."- St. John Maximovitch

That's right. Any Catholic who holds to the actual teachings of the Church is clueless. I am so sick of this East= Good, West = Bad attitude. Especially when you consider the fact that it is the West that has always remained orthodox.

Yes, that is what Rome demands you to hold, isn't it? Of course, then there's that whole Honorius thing and the papal oath, etc.

It would seem what you are complaining about is East/West=Bad.

Otherwise, I don't see what you are complaining about.

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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.A hasty quarrel kindles fire,and urgent strife sheds blood.If you blow on a spark, it will glow;if you spit on it, it will be put out; and both come out of your mouth

That's right. Any Catholic who holds to the actual teachings of the Church is clueless. I am so sick of this East= Good, West = Bad attitude. Especially when you consider the fact that it is the West that has always remained orthodox.