" There is a VERY strong correlation between payroll and winning pct. The Sox team of 2012 is an outlier.

I disagree that just because the recent free agent contracts have hurt us, we should avoid free agents at all costs. That is asking us to operate llike a small market team, and small market teams arent as successful year to year as big market teams."

How dare you post something so reasonable and accurate when Billy is rollin' and trollin'?

I love this idea that the Sox can win only if they sign the best players to one year contracts. Yeah that works great.

The players having off years are not FA's. Beckett a trade that was a good trade. Lester home grown Pedroia home grown Middlebrooks, Nava both having off months homegrown. Salty a trade Ortiz is doing well Agon (trade) and Ells (home grown) is doing well Aviles, CC , Ross, Shop, all doing well. BP is doing well So FA is not hurting this team--home grown players are. If you disagree Bill please explain.Posted by JimfromFlorida

Jim - Read the past. He never stated that the Free agents are having off years even though I'd beg to differ. The team is in this state because of the free agents. And how could you say the free agents that were signed are not having off years. See the list below, all free agent signings:

Carl Crawford $20M - Is he having a good year? No. He's played 8 games.

John Lackey $16M - Is he having an off year? He's having no year

Bobby Jenks $6M - Enough said

DiceK $10M

Regardless of anyone else, how much money is that tied up in useless payroll, and this doesn't even include Beckett.

Hmmm, $52M. 52/170 = 30%

And how can you say Ellsbury is doing well? 17 games, .300 average, 1 HR, .752 OPS and 1 SB? What are you seeing?

The players having off years are not FA's. Beckett a trade that was a good trade. Lester home grown Pedroia home grown Middlebrooks, Nava both having off months homegrown. Salty a trade Ortiz is doing well Agon (trade) and Ells (home grown) is doing well Aviles, CC , Ross, Shop, all doing well. BP is doing well So FA is not hurting this team--home grown players are. If you disagree Bill please explain.Posted by JimfromFlorida

Jim - Read the past. He never stated that the Free agents are having off years even though I'd beg to differ. The team is in this state because of the free agents. And how could you say the free agents that were signed are not having off years. See the list below, all free agent signings:

Carl Crawford $20M - Is he having a good year? No. He's played 8 games.

John Lackey $16M - Is he having an off year? He's having no year

Bobby Jenks $6M - Enough said

DiceK $10M

Regardless of anyone else, how much money is that tied up in useless payroll, and this doesn't even include Beckett.

Hmmm, $52M. 52/170 = 30%

And how can you say Ellsbury is doing well? 17 games, .300 average, 1 HR, .752 OPS and 1 SB? What are you seeing? And it is dysfunctional because because of all of these free agents, the bench consists of guys like Nava, Sweeney, Punto and Shoppach.

How many home runs has the Red Sox bench (including departed players) produced all year? Can you guess? How about 13. This includes Nava and Sweeney who have had many at bats as starters.

Repeat 13 home runs. Now guess how many at bats? 975.

Projected back to a regular season, that is 6 HR's.

The dysfunctional state comes from overpaid non productive players, which causes the bench to be made up of scrap heap players.

And one more piece of data. Combined, the outfielders, regardless of who they are have produced 24 Home Runs combined.

Bill first I'll say when the he11 are you going to answer any questions and nstop using the ones others try to bail you out on.

ADGHe said dysfunctional team my interpetation is the current state of the team on the field. NO one on the DL matters in that regards.

CC and Jake as I stated are doing well so far not great as you said I said. So please reread my comment.

The current state of the team on the field is the result of home grown players not having good years and I don't mean career years like others.

As far as useless payroll every team has that some more some less imjuries happen. To do as Bill says and only sign FA to one or two yr contracts is not going to happen.If they trade for let's say Hamels--do you think he will sign for a 1 or 2 yr contract? NO FREAKIN way.

The RS are not being hurt by FA. If there was some one better than what they have the RS would have no issue signing them. Current FA means nothing to the team right now since it is not about signing FA now but getting a player who will help the team but not strip them of the minor leauge players they have.

People post they should have traded CC + a minor league person like Iggy for HR and Sanchez of the Marlins. That is pure BS neither is better than anything the RS currently have.

FA is not hurting this team at all at this time.

If you wish to say it will hurt them signing FA after the season maybe.But the RS have ONLY 108 million committed to next years salaries.Which means they have at least 66 million in their pockets for FA and others next year.

SO FA is of no consequence to the state of the team

BTW Jenks has been released.

What you and Bill are saying is that you do not like the current FA signings. Which you base upon contract and performance to date.

Really? Like having 20 million a year tied up by Crawford in LF isn't hurting this team?Paying Dice K 10 million a year, on top of the obscene 50 million talking money, isn't hurting this team.Like paying Lackey 15 million a year, to do nothing, isn't hurting this team?And while he isn't a free agent, paying 22 million dollars to Gonzales to hit singles, isn't hurting this team?Get real!

20 mil in CC has not hurt this team. Yes he had a bad year last yr. This yr he was hurt and so far so good since his return.

Paying Dice and Lackey what they got was based upon what they had done and what was expected of them and the same for CC. Yes the RS have gotten minimal from both Lackey and Dice but at the time of the signings they were good signings.

Injuries happen guys not a damn thing the team can do about it and basing the contract a waste because of an injury is dumb. The contract was made with the best of intentions the injury is not part of the decision process at the time.

GEOROM4

I HAVE NEVER STATED A PLAYER HAS NOT UNDERPERFORMED. Yes CC did not play well last year but players have off years. Yaz hit 250 in 4 of his years. I have said it over and over players have off years it is why there are averages.

I also have said just because a player has an off year you don't trade him.

I have also said what Youk said RS fans EXPECT a career year every year.

I have also said last years C & B was BS. I base that upon a well respected manager (Joe Maddon) who said it was BS and every team has some sort of stuff like that in the clubhouse.

I have also said the FA have not hurt this team because next yr they have a starting point of 108 million in salaries.

So let's offer up this scenario on two highly paid FA not RS players....

If the RS had signed Cliff Lee as every one on this forum wanted...would you feel the same way considering his current 1-6 record in 16 games, era up 1.20 and 20 mil contract that he has given up almost as many runs this yr in comparision to all his other yrs.

Or maybe Roy Halladay who every one wanted in Boston who is now 4-5 4.32 and injured.

Would you see them as wasted FA contracts and be looking to trade/DFA/release as has been stated here with many RS players?

See ALL players have off years. Sh1t happens while we plan our lives and we live with it and make the best of what has happened, The RS have had sh1t happen while they planned their teams and they will do the best with what they have been dealt.

it must be great to live in mef's and jim's world where every signing is the right thing to do under the circumstances and players never underperform... this is exactly why Sweet Caroline will never die off, sell outs will continue, and we will be in the cellar for the next decadePosted by georom4

its easier to go with it than throw a tantrum on an internet forum demanding them to be traded, DFA'd etc.... if ben/theo or any other GM chooses to sign/trade players then there is nothing jim, myself, you or any of your hater friends can do about it. why put so much time and effort into dumping on a player your don't like if its not going to change anything?? why not be positive and support a struggling player or hope they break their slump?

In Response to Re: FREE AGENCY has put our $ox in this dysfunctional state............. : JIMMY, calm down son, your working to hard on this !!! Heck, it's so hot today up here that I don't have the strength to argue with you. All I can say is that with each game the $ox are making all of my points !!!!!!Posted by Bill-806

translation: i don't know how to answer your question so i'm going to give a cookie cutter response.

In Response to Re: FREE AGENCY has put our $ox in this dysfunctional state............. : JIMMY, calm down son, your working to hard on this !!! Heck, it's so hot today up here that I don't have the strength to argue with you. All I can say is that with each game the $ox are making all of my points !!!!!!Posted by Bill-806

Are you admiting you don't either have the balls or ability to try and answer?

See bill it is simple look at the question I posed and tell the forum how you feel about Hamels and Halladay if they were on the RS and doing as bad as they are now.