When it comes to the History family of networks, there seems to be a clear divide now between History and H2 in terms of the crazy fringe ideas they want to promote. On H2 we have Ancient Aliens, where God is an extraterrestrial and New Age spirituality reigns, as well as America Unearthed, where Jesus was just a man and New Age spirituality explains the exalted status of his royal bloodline. Over on History, we have more traditional views of Biblical literalism. They had their scripted miniseries version of The Bible, as well as last year’s series Bible Secrets Revealed, albeit with ancient astronaut theorist and self-proclaimed descendant of Mary Magdalene Kathleen McGowan in a prominent role. The latest entry in that august pantheon is Search for Lost Giants, debuting next month, which is quite clearly meant to appeal to creationists, Biblical literalists, and Christian fundamentalists who take Genesis 6:4 literally.

As a service to viewers, this merely doubles the amount of anti-scientific programming on the History networks, but as a marketing strategy it’s a great example of market segmentation. A+E Networks shunts viewers with New Age sentiments to the smaller channel and those with fundamentalist views to the larger, and can use both to appeal to the general interest conspiracy theory viewer. What I find interesting, though, is the way that creationists and ancient astronaut theorists play out this same division. You’d think that the ancient astronaut theorists would be sniping at the creationists, who are more numerous (42% of all Americans, according to Gallup) and better funded, but this isn’t the case. Instead, the creationists, who operate under an ideology of oppression and believe themselves under siege from secularists, materialists, and the 19% of Americans who believe in evolution without divine guidance, have waged a low level war against Ancient Aliens in particular, and the ancient astronaut theory in general. We’ve seen it with the rise of Christian UFO “experts” like Bob and Suzanne Hemrick who declare aliens to be demons, and we’ve seen it with the publication of Exo-Vaticana, whose authors, Cris Putnam and Thomas Horn, claim that while Protestants recognize aliens as demonic illusions, Catholics are wholly deceived by the idea of ancient astronauts and flying saucers. But we’ve also seen it in evangelical Christian Chris White’s Ancient Aliens Debunked, which turns from a scientific debunking of Ancient Aliens to a Christian discussion of the Nephilim. More specifically, we’ve even seen it with Nephilim researcher L. A. Marzulli, who in 2010 raged against how Ancient Aliens had manipulated his words and research in order

…to lead people away from the God of the Bible, and in particular, the presence of the Nephilim who were on the earth. They don’t go there, and they can’t because it would actually present another alternative view than the one they are espousing! How do you spell propaganda?

Marzulli’s experience is what led him to start his line of Nephilim/Watchers DVDs. Now that History has a Nephilim-themed series, Marzulli is still mad, but now it’s because he’s not on it. So I read with interest today a posting by Dante Fortson, a sci-fi writer, business blogger, self-described nondenominational minister, and self-described expert on the Christian supernatural. He published a book on human hybrids in the Bible and is very concerned about “transhumanism” as a sign of the apocalypse—another weird claim that Daniel Ott asked me about on the Edge radio show a few weeks ago, the first time I’d heard of the utopian philosophy in relation to the Nephilim. Anyway, Fortson published “8 Ways Ancient Aliens Causes Confusion” for Christians, a follow up to a 2012 YouTube video on “Giorgio Tsoukalos: Master of Deception.” The exact nature of Fortson’s apologetics isn’t really relevant—he, for example, chooses to read the Bible as encoding evidence of fourth-dimensional angelic and divine constructions—but it’s interesting to see the way Fortson works hard to take the same evidence used for the ancient astronaut theory and re-imbue it with the supernatural that the ancient astronaut theory pointedly emerged to strip from the source texts. Here is Fortson on, of course, the Nephilim, who are the central focus for modern efforts to restore belief in the Christian supernatural:

The giants were hybrids that were part angel and part human. Stories of these hybrids appear all over the world, and are known as demigods in other cultures. Contrary to what Ancient Aliens would like us to believe, these are not alien beings. They were fallen supernatural beings, as recorded by almost every culture on earth. It is our modern society that wants to strip every supernatural element from the story and replace them with natural explanations that simply don’t fit when we look at the details.

Needless to say, Fortson rejects what he calls “the Sethite theory,” the ancient interpretation of Genesis 6:1-4 that holds that the “Sons of God” were not fallen angels but the descendants of the righteous son of Adam, Seth. Fortson’s bottom line is that Ancient Aliens represents a threat to Christian spirituality, namely the particular type of fundamentalist and literalist Bible belief favored among evangelicals:

We as Christians need to have a solid Biblical foundation before we start entertaining shows like Ancient Aliens. They are known twisters of scripture and will do so every chance they get, in order to push their Ancient Astronaut Theory on the world. For those that don’t actually know the truth, the points they make sound intelligent, but when we take a deeper look at those points, they start to sound ridiculous and uninformed.

Unlike the belief that a hybrid race of angel-human-animal people are threatening your soul. One commenter on Fortson’s blog even likened Ancient Aliens to the Serpent in the Garden, tying ancient astronaut theorists’ promise that we are of the same substance of as aliens and can join them in their heavenly home as akin to the Serpent’s promise that the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge would make humans “as gods.” But now, thanks to the marketing geniuses at History, you can choose your own flavor of fringe: Tune in to the main History Channel for evangelical Biblical literalism and H2 for New Age heresy!

She still made the claim, and it's a matter of public record. It remains relevant to mention it as long as she continues to be presented as an "expert".

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666

10/7/2014 11:53:27 am

Kathleen McGowan by 2014 has finally realised that her claim was based on long discredited material, and on spurious false claims (with bogus "primary sources") found in books like "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" and "Woman with The Alabaster Jar". She won't be so forthcoming anymore in that department.

Clint Knapp

10/7/2014 12:16:01 pm

Unless you can provide a source in which she actually retracted the claim, you're just speculating based on your own belief.

666

10/7/2014 06:01:08 pm

>>>Unless you can provide a source in which she actually retracted the claim, you're just speculating based on your own belief.

WHEN was it the last time she made the claim, Clint??
Can you provide THAT information???

Mark L

10/7/2014 09:00:20 pm

How long do we need to wait from the last time a claim was made before we can assume that the person making the claim no longer believes it? Is there a rule?

An Over-Educated Grunt

10/8/2014 01:36:08 am

I would like to know how you unsay something. Bill Clinton's still living down "I didn't inhale," "I did not have sex with that woman, Miss Lewinsky," and "that depends on what 'is' is" twenty years later. Bob Macnamara didn't exactly get Vietnam wiped from memory because he said mistakes were made. There are plenty of French and Poles who are a tad suspicious of Germany still. You get the idea. Once it's said, it's said.

EP

10/8/2014 04:33:17 am

Charles Darwin no longer believes in evolution. When's the last time you heard him claim that evolution is real?! :)

Matt Mc

10/16/2014 02:38:07 am

I just stumbled across Kathleen McGowan blog and as of July this year she still claims to be related to Mary Magdalene and she asks her blog readers to read her books for her proof

I just finished reading your article and I have to say you are way off on several things.

1. I am not an evangelical minister, nor do I belong to any denomination, especially not evangelical. Its a false statement, so please correct that.

2. The Sethite idea is not "ancient" as you put it. The historical fact is that it originated roughly 200 - 300 AD. The ORIGINAL belief in angels as "the sons of God" dates back prior to 300 BC. That is at least a 600 year difference, at minimum. Please correct that as well.

3. I didn't have to work hard to re-imbue anything. The text is 100% clear that these beings are supernatural, were created by God, and use their powers to PRETEND to be gods. That's exactly what the Bible tells us. Ancient Aliens conveniently leaves that and many other things out.

If you're going to write an article, please at least be honest and do some research on who you're writing about and what they actually believe, instead of making it up if you don't know.

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EP

10/7/2014 06:27:31 am

So when you call yourself a "Minister" on your website, that is compatible with your statement how?

Also, you do not have to belong to a denomination to count as "an evangelical". If you believe in the special salvific power of faith in Jesus, and you describe yourself as a minister, there is nothing wrong with describing you as an evangelical minister.

You may want to look into the evangelical denomination. There is a difference between being a non denominational minister and an evangelical minister. That's like calling a Christian a Catholic. 99% of them would strongly disagree that the two are the same. Regardless of what outsiders believe about the subject.

EP

10/7/2014 06:36:27 am

LOL, you think Evangelicalism is a denomination.

EP

10/7/2014 06:30:25 am

Also, what is the point in history at which the "ancient" ends and the "modern"(?) begins?

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666

10/7/2014 09:19:01 am

There are Ministers who hunt and vanquish Vampires. Books have been written and battles fought between such people.

An Over-Educated Grunt

10/7/2014 06:39:06 am

That's point 1 registered by EP. I wasn't going to bother, but what the hell, it's this or bang my head against a different wall.

2. "The ORIGINAL belief in angels as "the sons of God" dates back prior to 300 BC" is a deeply flawed statement itself. We shall start with "not ancient." 200-300 AD makes it older than Constantine, and therefore belonging to late Antiquity - the last time period in the west legitimately called ancient. If you simply mean "not as old as," then "not as old as" works much better. If on the other hand you're suggesting that a period before the foundation of Constantinople (or re-founding, Byzantium was already there) is not ancient, you're barking up the wrong tree. I'm not going to dispute the age, origins, or foundations for the interpretation of Genesis 6; I will, however, point out that "interpretation" inherently leaves room for error.

3. On that very point, "the text is 100% clear" only if you believe that the Bible is rendered perfectly in every translation. If that were the case why would multiple English translations be necessary, since the first would be inerrant and perfect? Are you suggesting that human beings are capable of perfect communication? If so, would that not itself run counter to Genesis 6:3, which says that Man is inherently flawed? In short: No, the text is not 100% clear. You take one view, Tsoukalos and company another; it is therefore subject to interpretation, and therefore not 100% clear.

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EP

10/7/2014 06:48:29 am

I'd even go as far as to say that the text is 100% *not* clear, since we can't even be certain whether the giants and the sons of God are the same, let alone about any of this other stuff...

Flavius Josephus had the Sethite interpretation in the 1st century CE, and since it is an old story to him, it obviously dates back before then. It is a legitimately ancient interpretation under any definition, though I agree that the fallen angels version almost certainly came first.

As for the evangelical vs. nondenominational designation, if Fortson prefers one over the other, he's welcome to it, and I'll change the adjective. However, if he doesn't belong to a denomination, does that mean that "minister" is an assumed rather than conferred title?

The accusation that Jospehus held the Sethite view I've heard before, but it's wrong. I read Jospehus often, and in Antiquities, book 1 Chapter 3, you don't have to read very far at all to see him clearly referring to Angels interbreeding with Human Women.

Same with Philo, he wrote a whole Book on the Giants subject. he says many proto gnostic thigns I consider wrong. But Seth's name isn't mentioned once and the beings are definitely identified as Angels.

True Pastors are never ordained by Men.

IDK about Forston but plenty of people calling themselves nondenominational aren't. Mostly the only truly Independent Churches and the Independent Baptist Churches. West Virginia has the most truly Independent Churches of any state.

I didn't say Josephus believed it, only that such a view had to have existed for him to have written the Pillars of Wisdom passage. He seems to have been aware of both versions. The Dead Sea Scrolls (4Q417) have a reference to the Sethite theology, so it's clearly old.

"3. Now Adam, who was the first man, and made out of the earth: (for our discourse must now be about him:) after Abel was slain, and Cain fled away, on account of his murder, was sollicitous for posterity; and had a vehement desire of children: he being two hundred and thirty years old: after which time he lived other seven hundred, and then died. He had indeed many other children: (11) but Seth in particular [An. 4355]. As for the rest it would be tedious to name them: I will therefore only endeavour to give an account of those that proceeded from Seth. Now this Seth, when he was brought up, and came to those years in which he could discern what was good, became a virtuous man: and as he was himself of an excellent character, so did he leave children behind him who imitated his virtues. (12) All these proved to be of good dispositions. They also inhabited the same country without dissensions, and in an happy condition, without any misfortunes falling upon them, till they died. [About An. 4300] They also were the inventors of that peculiar sort of wisdom, which is concerned with the heavenly bodies, and their order. And that their inventions might not be lost before they were sufficiently known, upon Adam’s prediction that the world was to be destroyed at one time by the force of fire, and at another time by the violence and quantity of water, they made two pillars: (13) the one of brick, the other of stone: they inscribed their discoveries on them both: that in case the pillar of brick should be destroyed by the flood, the pillar of stone might remain, and exhibit those discoveries to mankind: and also inform them that there was another pillar of brick erected by them. Now this remains in the land of Siriad to this day."

That's the Pillars of Wisdom passage. NO Sethie-Canite interbreeding. "

On Genesis 6

" Now this posterity of Seth continued to esteem God as the Lord of the universe, and to have an entire regard to virtue, for seven generations: but in process of time they were perverted, and forsook the practices of their fore-fathers; and did neither pay those honours to God which were appointed them, nor had they any concern to do justice towards men. But for what degree of zeal they had formerly shewn for virtue, they now shewed by their actions a double degree of wickedness. Whereby they made God to be their enemy. For many Angels of God (14) accompanied with women, and begat sons that proved unjust, and despisers of all that was good; on account of the confidence they had in their own strength. For the tradition is, that these men did what resembled the acts of those whom the Grecians call Giants. But Noah was very uneasy at what they did: and being displeased at their conduct, persuaded them to change their dispositions, and their actions for the better. But seeing they did not yield to him, but were slaves to their wicked pleasures, he was afraid they would kill him, together with his wife and children, and those they had married. So he departed out of that land."

Seth is talked about near by. But it's only the Angels said to father the Gigantes.

Actually finding that DSS Scroll to read without it being bogged down by exposition isn't as easy.

666

10/7/2014 06:22:01 am

This is good

Hybrids Among Us: Transhumanism and Genetic Armageddon

http://ministerfortson.com/?p=34295

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666

10/7/2014 09:35:39 am

Ok, this is a Blog where only cherry-picked characters are welcome

Anyone with any free will who picks out weaknesses in established scholarship is definitely not welcome

On the other hand, easy pickings like Steve St Clair and Reverend Gotsch are most welcome because they can easily be humiliated and their arguments and positions rubbished without difficulty.

Your postings are welcome, 666, so long as they are on topic and contribute substantively to the discussion. You tend to post large numbers of brief posts that are off topic and don't contribute substantively. It has nothing to do with your viewpoint.

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666

10/7/2014 11:42:13 am

Ok, I will start asking EP and others to begin substantiating their postings.

EP

10/7/2014 01:31:03 pm

I'm sure everyone here is as eager to cater to your every whim as I am...

Josef Karpinovic

10/7/2014 10:19:15 am

I realize that this is not really a constructive comment, and I apologize in advance for that, but this Nephilim/Giant shit has to be the most BORING and pointless avenue of fringe nonsense there is, along with the 'Watchers' and all that. The endless re-interpretations and re-re-interpretations of Biblical material are so goddamn tedious, they make my whole body hurt, and, it should be pretty plain at this point to anyone with half a brain that there are/were no giants. These people should just set up a booth at ComicCon and leave it at that. The pointlessness and tedium of it all is just agonizing.

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EP

10/7/2014 10:24:11 am

I agree about the topic, but check out the personalities! I mean, Fenton, Little, Marzulli, etc... And several of them even post here once in a while!

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An Over-Educated Grunt

10/7/2014 11:11:47 am

I suspect Jason agrees with you, based on "Nope! It's giants all the way down!" That remains one of my favorite posts.

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.

10/9/2014 12:36:58 am

luv... Jason hath reputation. if they all hired the same
tums eating publicity agent despite their tendency to
feud when in the same room, they'd be paying him well
and fulsomely to spend nearly all his or her waking hours
just reading this blog. of course its less fun to know that
avatars outdo yesteryears NSA when fed words and told
to find them. someone reads Jason, someone tells folks all.

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Mark L

10/7/2014 09:11:24 pm

I will definitely contribute if you do a Kickstarter to buy improved site software that means I can press "ignore" and never have to wade through scores of tedious, pointless, worthless 666 posts again. He renders the comment section of your site virtually unreadable, Jason, and the interesting posts get buried in the same old crap, day after day, without any change or acknowledgement of other peoples' views or opinions.

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Matt Mc

10/8/2014 12:44:41 am

I would contribute also

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EP

10/8/2014 02:38:14 pm

There *is* a way to IP-ban people on Weebly, which I shared with Jason a while back. Perhaps it's too much hassle to implement, and unlike some other problematic posters, 666 is possibly persisitent enough to work around it.

Sigh...

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Mark L

10/8/2014 09:19:06 pm

It's not so much an IP ban (his page views are as valuable as everyone else's) but just the option to never have to read his posts again.

You were Interviewed on one of Chris White's Podcasts once. He tends to equally have a problem with the other Christina you mentioned, who mostly regurgitate Ancient Aliens ideas but give a Christina spin.

White is also sadly not a Young Earth Creationist, now promoting a variant of the Extended Day Theory.

I like White, but disagree with his Pre-Wrath Rapture position.

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EP

10/11/2014 03:58:26 pm

But does he believe in Biblical dinosaurs?

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mandy

9/17/2016 07:52:02 pm

Oh no! He's not a YEC. How shocking?

http://www.oldearth.org/creation-science.htm

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mandy

9/17/2016 07:50:22 pm

It's sad that close minded people like you guys can't accept the truth. Who are the sons of god? Maybe they're angels, or other gods?(the early hebrews were henotheistic) You guys can read these two links to get better details.

https://sites.google.com/site/yahwehelohiym/home

http://christogenea.org/essays/problem-genesis-61-4

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yertemiah israel

12/18/2017 12:57:01 pm

the most high didn't give the seed of cain{whites} knowledge to make any thoughts on his holy works. so just be like the prophet isa14 chapter says just fall from your heaven cause you"r not YAH but a curse seed.

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I'm an author and editor who has published on a range of topics, including archaeology, science, and horror fiction. There's more about me in the About Jason tab.