I am 22, and my boyfriend of 15 months is 41. He has an extremely difficult time expressing any affection or emotion, and our physical intimacy has been dwindling despite my efforts to seduce him. His family says I’m the first girl he’s brought home since 1987, and his longest relationship. They’re rooting for me, and say I should call them if he starts pushing me away. They want him to have a family, and he says he wants one, too, but has never come close. I realize I’m young, but for the first time, I feel selfless. I would happily sacrifice my happiness for his. It’s so important to me that he is able to become a father, even if it is not with me. But, maybe our age difference means we were supposed to meet so I can bear his children. I strongly believe this man is my soul mate, even if he is not so sure. How do I keep from going crazy while not pressuring him so much that I lose him?

--Holding Pattern

Just what every kid needs, a father who’s incapable of expressing any affection or emotion. Should work wonders when your little girl wakes up screaming for her daddy to protect her from the monsters. Oops, Daddy doesn’t do hugs. Could she work with a pat on the back, or maybe a nice firm handshake?

As for you, proud holder of the title, “First Girl He’s Brought Home Since 1987,” I’m guessing the others didn’t find emotional constipation such a strong selling point. Apparently, it works for you. (Pops was a cold chap?) Clearly, you don’t want a man who’s affectionate. If you did, you’d be with one. It seems what you really want is a challenge: Go where no woman has gone before! Only you can unlock the love within! (Yeah? Wanna bet?) When a guy shows you he’s incapable of affection, the appropriate response isn’t to latch onto him like a tick and go celebrate with his family.

Chances are, your parents sent you through school so you could make something of yourself, not make something of a broken, middle-aged man. At 22, you’re faced with all these big questions: Who are you, where are you going, what are you doing? The answer shouldn’t be making some guy your project in hopes of avoiding the looming uncertainties of you. Once you actually do the work to develop a self, you might be a little pickier about where you sacrifice it: maybe for world peace, or for those little babies with the distended bellies -- not for a guy who won’t caress your neck unless you call his mother and get her to talk him into it.

Putting aside how silly it is to believe that everybody has one designated “soul mate” (some women say that about each of their six husbands), you can’t actually believe yours is a guy whose emotional availability rivals that of a cinderblock. Instead of clinging to this picture of the life you could have if only he were completely different, why not ditch him and work toward the life you could have if you were completely different? Like, if you had a strong self, felt you deserved to be happy, and to have love in your life. It beats setting yourself on a path to wake up at 30, bitter and resentful, realizing you aren’t the only couple in need of marital aids -- just probably the only one turning to gallon jugs of de-icer and a portable defibrillator.

Wow! A 19-year difference and she, at 22, wants to be the "saving grace" for this bag of N-O-T-H-I-N-G! Hang it up girl, he's not husband, father, boyfriend or even good friend material. He's 41 and a L-O-S-E-R !

There she will find evidence that what she needs is a good swift kick to the frontal lobe, and lessons on how to grow a backbone where her wishbone is!

Flynne
at May 2, 2007 7:18 AM

Re: age difference
What about 80 year old Hugh Heffner and his 20-year-old girlfriends?

Mad Hungarian
at May 2, 2007 8:43 AM

What about them? That's a different sort of thing. I don't think those girls have any false expectations.

Furthermore, it's not so much an age difference that matters, usually, but the maturity difference. Young women who get together with older guys have a tendency to behave like this woman does and to be controlled by the older guy or at least defer to him. It's a growth-stunting proposition, and can be very damaging.

You know, I saw what hugh hefner looked like 20 years ago yesterday, and NOW I understand how he has so many girlfriends. (he's always looked older than my grandfather to me.)

But still I find that show fascinating, it amazes me how functional they seem to be as a group.

This girl needs to Dump this guy, move to a new city and spend a minimum of 6 months single.

Shinobi
at May 2, 2007 9:43 AM

Thanks, Amy. It makes more sense with style!

Norman
at May 2, 2007 10:00 AM

Maybe he's gay. On the other side, he's aged 41 and living with his parents? I wish I could met that girl; I have a great deal on a Brooklin Bridge or two. :D

Toubrouk
at May 2, 2007 10:16 AM

"They’re rooting for me, and say I should call them if he starts pushing me away."

And then what are they gonna do, take away his car keys? Good gawd ...

Pirate Jo
at May 2, 2007 10:43 AM

"Chances are, your parents sent you through school so you could make something of yourself, not make something of a broken, middle-aged man."

I'm betting this is the case is well. I'm imagining my parents' reaction if I had told them, at age 22, that I wanted to marry and bear the offspring of a 41-year-old cold fish. So sad that I had to spend the post-college months working in other cities and in Europe and thus missed out on an opportunity to rack up a starter marriage.

And, this is going to sound crude, but...if you're dating a guy who doesn't want to sleep with you, absent any immense emotional trauma such as a hideous boss etc., GET OUT. GET OUT NOW. I have yet to meet a highly emotionally and physically affectionate (as in hugging, kissing, cuddling) man who can take or leave sex. Guys virtually always view sex as a key component of love, affection, emotional connection, what have you. And this is a 41-year-old guy dating a presumably attractive 22-year-old woman. Her complaint should be that he can't keep his hands off of her...and yet he's withdrawing? After 15 months? Because of deep emotional issues? Dump him. Dump him NOW.

41 years old, or 31, or 21...it doesn't matter how old he is; this man is emotionally inadequate to sustain the meaningful and fulfilling relationship you are seeking. That will not change regardless of his years lived on earth (he will probably only get worse).

Here is a big tip, and I am confident 99% of women everywhere will agree: YOU CAN'T FIX/CHANGE A PERSON. He has been living his life the way he sees fit and no matter how much you love him or try to seduce him you will not get through the brick wall he's built around himself.

Everyone deserves out of a relationship exactly what they're willing to put into it. Your relationship seems like a one-way street and you're bombing down it in a crotch-rocket and there is a huge brick wall at the end of it. He is the wall. You WILL crash and you will hurt for a long time. You will wonder where you went wrong, why you weren't good enough and you will want to keep trying. It's called addiction, and yes, you can become addicted to a person.

The only way to truly handle this situation is to cut all ties to this man and save your eggs for a real man with sperm that is less likely to pass on genetic mental incapacities.

Good luck.

Gretchen
at May 2, 2007 10:55 AM

Get out, run, NOW.

You do not have any idea how much you're going to hate yourself when this finally ends. And it will, trust me, I've been there give or take the whole happily sacrificing part. I tried, but it was more like sacrificing kicking and squirming until I blew up and realized I was way too young to be so unhappy for NO REASON.

Older guys are single for a reason. Some of those reasons might be noble and "normal," (yeah right) but if they are older, single, never even been CLOSE to commitment, have a hard time showing their emotions, and don't want to boink you, you need to realize you're making a fool out of yourself. If he's not f-cking you, he's definitely not into you.

Why do you think you deserve all the nothing he has to offer? There's only one person you should be willing to sacrifice anything for- and that's you. He is not worth it, nor does he want to be. The sooner you realize you're playing a game you can't win the sooner you can start formulating REAL goals and dreams. Even if they're not easy.

Wendy B
at May 2, 2007 10:57 AM

I'm going to pretty much disagree with everyone here.

I believe part of the reason he's becoming more distant, inspite of her "efforts to seduce him" are exactly the problem. She's now labelled him as "emotionally distant" and is trying to "help" him.

She's become too "selfless" (most likely in a very self-gratifying way) and SHE wants him to be a father. His family wants this, that or the other thing. Hell with them and what they want...

She's taking a passive-aggressive stance at trying to control him, and fix problems he may not see as problems.

She needs to back off, stop listening to his overbearing family, and give him some space. If she is right for him, he'll come to her.

This guy sounds like the ultimate fixer-upper, I'm shocked he's not mobbed with challenge seekers.

RK Jones
at May 2, 2007 12:36 PM

Here's another perspective on this woman. She is afraid of real intimacy, and is guaranteed not to get any with this pet rock of a boyfriend, so he's a very safe bet.

Chrissy
at May 2, 2007 4:34 PM

"Soul-mate." Ugh. Grow up. No clue if this guy really is emotionally stunted or, as Morbideus posited, just sick of the OP. Her melodramatic affectations suggest the latter.

snakeman99
at May 2, 2007 5:14 PM

A grandpa? At 41?? Where are all your over-40-somethings taking issue with such remarks?!

I've known/dated plenty of 40+ men who are sexy, exciting, attractive, and very eager to please [insert Andrew Dice Clay muttering/posturing here].

But, yes dear LW, I do agree with almost everyone here that this man is not the one for you. No matter what the reason is for his standoff-ish-ness and lack of emotional expression, you must move on.

Wendy
at May 2, 2007 5:50 PM

I dunno. They sound like they're a perfect match because she's just as screwed up as he is. However-NEITHER of them should have children EVER.

newmoon
at May 2, 2007 8:58 PM

Sounds like an addiction to me (as was mentioned above.) I've been addicted to a guy before, but maybe I'm smart because I knew that was what was going on and got out of it. She should get as far away from him as possible and not look for any more like him..Though my bet is she'll attract more of them.

Edi
at May 2, 2007 9:54 PM

At one point I was a fixer-upper of a girl. In college I suffered from severe depression and the guy I was dating enjoyed taking care of me. Then one day I got some therapy (a fair amount of it) and I fixed myself.

The interesting thing is, once I fixed myself, I was REPULSED by this guy I had been dating. He had no self worth outside of taking care of me, and how good he felt about himself was proportional to how much fixing I needed. When we broke up I was quite cruel to him (I said/did some things I'm frankly ashamed of). He just took it, didn't even get mad, and spent the next two years trying to repair our relationship.

See that's the thing. The fixer-upper can be fixed, but only by themselves. And once they do, the guy/gal that has put in so much to 'fix' them will most likely be kicked out on their butt. The fixers just are kind of detestable once you're fixed.

Elle
at May 2, 2007 11:22 PM

Amen to all of that. She is saying, Wow, this guy won't respond to me despite all of my 22-year-old sexiness and complete willingness to subordinate all of my needs to his. Yet, his mother is so happy he's finally met someone. What should I do? I know! I'll fantasize that I've been asked by the Higher Power of Love to sacrifice my life for his. Good deal! This woman is putting on the identity of martyr because she does not have one of her own. She is not signing up for the Selfless Love of the Year Award, but rather the Lifetime Confirmation of My Own Unworthiness Trophy.

Debra
at May 3, 2007 4:16 AM

"They sound like they're a perfect match because she's just as screwed up as he is."
She's 22. Most 22-year-olds are screwed up in one way or another. Reasonably functional adults, though, are generally far less screwed up by the time they reach 41.

"The fixer-upper can be fixed, but only by themselves. And once they do, the guy/gal that has put in so much to 'fix' them will most likely be kicked out on their butt. The fixers just are kind of detestable once you're fixed."

OH yeah. I've seen this time and time again. That's why I HATE this idea that true love can "save" a guy.

marion
at May 3, 2007 5:43 AM

Amy, LOVE your columns. There's never an occasion where I don't laugh out loud and marvel at your ability to cut to the chase.

I hope that "Holding Pattern" heeds your advice and takes to heart the comments on this board. Ten years ago, I was a starry-eyed 19 year old who believed that "Love would solve our problems" and that "things would be better after we married." I had this foolish idea in my head that I was going to save him, to melt him with the warmth of my love. Yeah, that, uh, didn't work out so well.

People do not change unless they really want to--and put a whole lot of hard work and effort into it, I might add, and at 41 years of age, if he hasn't developed into an emotionally mature and loving adult, he ain't gonna--ever! If anything, it is almost guaranteed that he will get worse.

I also could not agree more with the statements about self-worth being the driving force behind all of this. This is a classic case of someone who doesn't love themselves and has no/low self-esteem.

I agree with the post above that said "if he isn't sleeping with you, he's not into you." My current husband, who is 46 years of age, and warm, wonderful and caring, wants me even if we're having a spat. I realize that there are different libido levels out there, but the sex life, or lack thereof, is a HUGE warning sign in and of itself! (Although there are nothing but enormous signs telling her to run like hell throughout her post).

"Holding Pattern" needs to thank heaven that she's not yet married to or carrying the spawn of this loser. Get out while you still can and save yourself--and your future unborn children--a world of heartache.

--Been There, Done That

Beth
at May 3, 2007 7:50 AM

"Your relationship seems like a one-way street and you're bombing down it in a crotch-rocket and there is a huge brick wall at the end of it. He is the wall. You WILL crash and you will hurt for a long time. You will wonder where you went wrong, why you weren't good enough and you will want to keep trying. It's called addiction, and yes, you can become addicted to a person."

That gave me goose-bumps. I went through the same thing about a year ago. This gal should consider herself lucky that she has so many warning signs. I didn't have any warning signs - it was one of those instant attraction things where I was in over my head from Minute One. The buzz was so incredible (and truly seemed to be a two-way street for a couple of months) that I can see where a person could get addicted to that feeling. And yeah, you're right about the wall, too, and the wreckage. I'm finally detached from it enough emotionally that I can examine it critically and identify what I can do to avoid a repeat of the experience. It's the only saving grace you get out of a clusterf*ck like that - LEARN FROM IT!!!

I am loving this conversation. When you said, dryly, "Pops was a cold chap?" I feel off my chair--yet quickly clambered to get back on and continue reading all the comments. I am 40 going on 41 and I see a therapist to deal with my ongoing abiding love for men like this. I started taking care of myself at about 9, including putting my own self through college and grad school--and it was with great resistance that I had to admit that long-gone coldass Pops was breaking my stride in any way. But the steady stream of cold fish that I loved as if they were warm humans made a lot more sense after I was able to see it. Until that point I spent a lot of time on therapists' couches wringing kleenex and discussing the psychology, needs, mystery of Sweetie Pie and why o why couldn't he just see the selfless love I was offering. I loved, loved, loved your response and I am rooting for the letter writer. You are THE Advice Goddess!

Susan
at May 3, 2007 12:24 PM

Susan, thank you so much for your comment above. As I said to Beth, it means a lot.

The guy sounds like an extreme illustration of one of my favorite sayings: If someone has reached age 40 and never been married, there's probably a good reason.

Rex Little
at May 3, 2007 2:56 PM

Insightfully entertaining, Amy. I just came across your blog a few weeks ago and I much admire your writing style, almost to the point that I get pissed when comparing my sinusoidal intellectually engaging posts to yours.

As an almost 20 year member of the Navy, and a submariner to boot, I have spent much time around men- my heterosexuality still intact- and I have come across plenty of men like the one in the letter. Of course, when they have a 22 year old following them around it is usually a stripper. Thier professional lives are just as pathetic as their personal and they have an immense amount of emotional baggage they desperately try to get their young girlfriends to tote.

Why is this woman wasting precious years of her youth with this guy? A rhetorical question, I know, but come on. Didn't she watch Big Daddy and the part about Old Man Balls, or OMB's, and make a correlation?

There is so much out there and as I get older I am starting to understand what my grandmother meant when she would bitch at us for doing stupid things like sitting on our asses during a sunny day, chasing girls who were not interested, or not taking the girls who were chasing us.

Doombugy,
What's being a Moslem have to do with it?
The Moslems I've met were all interested in sex. They were friendly, warm, and if anything erred on the side of trying to get a woman into bed as fast as possible, sometimes at the cost of being annoying.
Moslems often have lots of children and that speaks for sexual activity. I dated a Moslem who expressed emotions more openly than any Christian guy I've dated. And he liked sex too.
All people regardless of religious inclination are different. Some loving, some sex crazed, some emotional disasters.

The girl should not make this man's problems here own. I'm sure she has enough already. She's young enough to grow out of them (or work through them) but the odd are against it if she stays with him.

snake eyes
at May 3, 2007 4:34 PM

Someone needs an application with the clue-by-four.

amh18057
at May 3, 2007 4:56 PM

You know, for the sake of accuracy, I should admit that I, too, spend a chunk of my daily life showering affection on a nervous, neurotic creature who does not reciprocate my devotion at anywhere close to the same level, and often shies away when I try to initiate interaction.

The creature I'm talking about, of course, is my cat who I adopted (as an adult) from a shelter.

Yes, I DO have a reason for bringing this up (aside from just deciding to admit, that yes, I am the crazy cat lady). Namely, that if you really, truly are into "saving" fellow creatures, and have a yen for lost or nearly-lost causes, there are PLENTY of outlets to which you can lavish these drives. You can adopt an adult cat or dog from a shelter - one that isn't likely to get adopted given his/her age. You can foster animals for breed rescue societies. You can volunteer at soup kitchens. You can get trained in counseling and counsel drug/alcohol addicts at street ministries and the like. Hell, you can adopt an older child from foster care. You can do TONS of things that do not involve the recipient of your largesse regularly (or not so regularly) getting naked in front of you and essentially making himself/herself vulnerable to you, his/her savior, creating a dynamic that ends in agony and tears.

This girl would be vastly better off if she were to dump this guy and, say, volunteer for the Peace Corps, or train to be a foster parent (you can just take in newborns who need emergency shelter prior to transfer to a foster home), or even just adopt a big dog who has the occasional bladder-control issue but is very sweet and devoted. Because the world really does need those who want to sacrifice for others. It even needs those who want to take on what are probably lost causes. There are a lot of people (and animals) out there living terrible lives through no or little fault of their own who NEED someone willing to go to extremes in order to help them. A 41-year-old cold fish who won't go to therapy to figure out why he's not praising the gods of middle-age every day for being able to land a 22-year-old girlfriend is NOT one of those creatures.

(And for those of you now mentally classifying me as the stereotypical thirtysomething spinster with one cat, you are WRONG! I actually have TWO cats.)

Odd is normal as far as I'm concerned. You're one of the normal-est people I know (and please don't take that the wrong way). If you were a tax accountant, I'd find you strange -- much as I appreciate my own tax accountant to pieces.

Wow, I was really floored when I read the letter (and the various responses) simply because it reminded me of myself at 22 (sadly). As many people have related similar situations, I, too, met and fell for a "man" who at first seemed quite normal (if a bit reserved), and as the relationship progressed further, grew more and more cold. I convinced myself that if I just hung on and tried to make him feel loved, that it would eventually work out and that he would warm up to me and everything would be wonderful- that if I couldn't make it work, then who would? I, too, had his parents overjoyed at my being involved with him, and was constantly called "his saving angel". I wasted 18 months on this guy before I finally woke up and realized something- he wasn't my responsibility. I wasn't responsible providing his happiness, for bringing him out of his shell, or for providing him with a family. So, I packed up, ran as far and as fast away from him as I could, and got myself a healthy dose of counseling. After sorting myself out and spending time on my own emotional development, I met and married a wonderful man who continues to shower me with affection and who is a true partner, in every sense of the word.
Bottom line (and I'm going to echo most of the sentiment here)- get out now. You really need to remove yourself from the situation and look at what you are doing with your life. Most importantly, remember this- you are not responsible for making anyone happy but yourself.

katarobi
at May 4, 2007 3:11 AM

Interesting that a selfless caretaker can become repulsive to someone who is no longer in such dire need... that happened with me recently. A nice fellow who did a great job of taking care of me became boring to me, and I felt guilty about despising him and yet, I was still bored with him. Maybe our society doesn't have a place anymore for these selfless doormats.

In the Bad Old Days (every society except the current one) MOST people were not expected to "find themselves" or "develop a sense of self-worth". Daily chores and survival were exhausting in and of themselves. The personality that might develop in response to a constricted situation is going to seem deformed and useless in a situation of freedom.

Having to care for an invalid family member in addition to all the rest? You'd have to become a martyr just to give some meaning to the situation.

Perhaps we are the anomalous ones with our expectation that EVERYONE develop a well-rounded personality. I wouldn't trade it, of course.

Red Ree
at May 4, 2007 5:10 PM

> I felt guilty about despising
> him and yet, I was still bored
> with him.

In the 90's, a lot of pop psychology talk seemed to fade away. Oprah started talking about books, bequeathing her sinecure of authoritarian therapeutic chatter to Dr. Phil. On talk radio, Sally Jesse Raphael gave up the advice business to concentrate on the vampire nuns of her TV show... The only one left standing was Dr. Laura, who's too butch to be concerned with what anyone's feeling. (I love her for her disinterest in interior lives, though for all I know her callers are scripted actors.)

In the 80's I used to hate the expression "co-dependant," because people could base whole weekends of conversation around it without giving you the slightest clue what it meant. But if there's any meaning left in it, it seems to refer to someone who kills with kindness, or finds value only in supporting another who's suffering. Once the suffering goes away, the support becomes a burden to the healed party.

This pattern is a kissin' cousin to the one about the listless, nebbishy 19-year-old freshman without a car who wonders why girls only go for assholes instead "nice guys" such as his lowballing self.

It offered the suggestion of buying a cellular "cancer phone" for the next friend who becomes afflicted, so that they never have to worry about missing calls from the doctor on the their regular phone as they talk with friends... It seems like an inexpensive blessing for someone who might not be thinking about practicalities, but could really appreciate it. The story is many years old, and I'm grateful not to have had to do this yet. Or have it done!

Crid
at May 5, 2007 1:36 AM

A 41-year old man brings home a 22-year old woman and his parents are overjoyed?

Let this be a warning to all parents on the pitiful outcomes associated with having low expectations for your children.

Holding Pattern, honey, "age" is only irrelevant if your "boyfriend" has spent the better part of last 20 years watching reruns in his parents' basement. If you think the years don't matter, consider dating a 16-year old boy.

If you stay with this mope, I hope for your sake that he's very, very wealthy. 10 years from now when you realize what a fucking ridiculous mistake you made staying with this sad sack, you're going to need a lot of very expensive therapy.

blue
at May 5, 2007 11:27 AM

What the fuck is that? Did Troll Dolls get lonely without Seipp to kick around anymore?

Crid
at May 5, 2007 12:20 PM

What Crid is talking about is a comment I just unposted from a scumbag directing people...

Hey Everybody!
The official Amy Alkon Web Blog is now at: DELETED

Here's the e-mail I just sent the site it bounced to:

Look you shitbags, I just had the following posted on my own site: (posting above pasted in here)

There's a price list posted on my site for spamming me, and be advise that I will pursue you and sue your ass for this. Feel free to make an offer to settle with me.

Posting this on my site, advicegoddess.com -- and directing traffic away from my site to a non-existent site which bounces to yours -- is vandalism and theft, and I take this very seriously.

-Amy Alkon, syndicated columnist

* At this time, I will accept a payment of $200 in damages for this posting -- a substantial discount over my posted prices for spam-vertising on my site. This offer will be good until May 12, 2007, at which time I will prepare to bring suit against you. And don't think I'll sue you in Colorado. Under the precedent of the International Shoe appeal to the Supreme Court in 1945 ("minimum contacts" with an area), I'll drag your ass to Santa Monica.

I love this his parents said to call them if he started to get distant. Sounds like they've been down this road many times before, despite her being the only female he's brought home since the Reagan administration. You know, when she was 4.

Meg
at May 6, 2007 9:44 AM

When I was young, I dated a nice fellow who made himself a doormat for me. As I wasn't in love with him, the more he did for me the guiltier I felt. The guiltier I felt, the more I resented him for making me feel that way. The more I resented him. the worse I treated him, and then felt even guiltier.

Well, finally I did us both a favor and released him to find someone who could appreciate him, and I eventually grew up enough to hold up my end of a relationship.

My point is that because of the dynamic of this relationship, it will never work out and you will have wasted your youth on this emotional cripple, as well as becoming one yourself from the continuous lack of any validation from him. What you find to love about him is beyond me, but at any rate my point is GET OUT while there is still time to take charge of your life and your psyche.

If you have a need to nurture, there are plenty of worthwhile beings out there needing your help (see Marion's post). Who knows, you might meet some worthwhile people while doing so, who could help you find a better direction for your love.