The Haida have 18,000 years of unbroken history in and around the North coast of Canada and Alaska....never heard of Jesus til his little pee-on followers came over and started killing us by the thousands.

That is his way of telling you that his people have a long history. What part don't you understand?

If god and his kid existed, I'm pretty sure they could have made a house call and clued in the North and South American natives as to what was happening, and why they should be good, and not wear clothes of different materials, and how to make striped goats and why they all drowned that time, etc. But no, go with the sheepherders instead of the most peaceful continents on the planet.

There is no evidence that there ever way a large scale conflict in the Americas before we showed up. No evidence of Ghengis Khans or Alexander the Greats or Crusades. I'm sure they fought a bit, but not so much that you'd notice. One would think this would please the god fellow and give him reason to clue them in as to what was important to god and such and how they should behave and teach them how to make crosses and such.

But nope.

So 12's history doesn't match your history. Why is that?

And don't diss oral histories. That's all you guys were working with when you started whipping out the new testament.

Added: And 12 Monkeys is being too nice. We killed his people by the millions. And you Portuguese were in on it too.

If you have 1 hour of your life to spare, you should educate yourself by watching this presentation

No, I don't - not since you haven't bothered to give any kind of summary to it.

And, quite frankly, you've given me no reason to want to waste my time on ANY links you put forward. In other threads I've taken the time to think carefully about your points, and then take the time to construct a considered response to you. And in return, I get a flippant, thoughtless response.

So explain to me why I should spend an hour watching some random link you can't even be bothered to explain?

The Haida have 18,000 years of unbroken history in and around the North coast of Canada and Alaska....never heard of Jesus til his little pee-on followers came over and started killing us by the thousands.

Could you please provide us with trustworthy sources for that number?

Logged

Presuppositionalism wins everytime

Nietzsche : "Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."

My little corner of the world is a prime example of the "Christians" compassion. In the mid 1700's when Europeans and Spanish arrived there were about 18,000 Haida. It was all good at first trade fur for metal,then fur ran short and we outlived our usefullness to them. In 1863 there were about 1000 left.

The survivors then had their children kidnapped and shipped to residential schools.....Christians and the like.....BARBARIANS!

Logged

There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

Your premise is flawed. Buddhism and Confucianism both date to around 500 BCE, and Daoism follows them by a hundred or so years.

And your condescending attempt to dismiss 12 Monkeys by conflating the 18,000 years of history he stated in his first post, and the fact that there were only around 18,000 Haida around the mid-1700s is not amusing. I'm pretty sure he can tell the difference between a reference to years and a reference to population; the real question is whether you're honest enough to admit just how much a fool of yourself you made here.

Logged

Nullus In Verba, aka "Take nobody's word for it!" If you can't show it, then you don't know it.

Added: And 12 Monkeys is being too nice. We killed his people by the millions. And you Portuguese were in on it too.

No.... We didn't do anything, we weren't there. Millions were killed, by individuals, most of whom have been lost to history. I am not saying that was not an atrocity, however to attach he actions of individuals to a group of people based on there ethnicity and heritage is pretty racist.

My little corner of the world is a prime example of the "Christians" compassion. In the mid 1700's when Europeans and Spanish arrived there were about 18,000 Haida. It was all good at first trade fur for metal,then fur ran short and we outlived our usefullness to them. In 1863 there were about 1000 left.

The survivors then had their children kidnapped and shipped to residential schools.....Christians and the like.....BARBARIANS!

To you as well... those responsible for what happened to your people are dead... To say that all Christians are responsible is to say to an individual "You kinda look like the person that is responsible so I am holding you responsible" and once again Racist

It isn't actually racist in that latter case, but a valid point otherwise.

I regret the atrocities that people committed in the past, but I myself did not commit any of those atrocities. It's true that, descended from European immigrants as I am, I probably benefited indirectly from those things, but the fact of the matter is that I could not have done a single thing to stop them. The most I can hope to do is try to keep such things from happening again.

However. When Christians disregard those horrible events that happened because of Christians who came before them, when they try to pretend that they weren't done by real Christians, when they rewrite history by whitewashing the reputations of previous Christians, then they are committing an atrocity of their own. They're perpetuating the myth of infallibility and creating the conditions for future Christians to repeat those crimes and atrocities of the past.

A modern-day Christian may not bear guilt for the Inquisition or the Holocaust, but they have the responsibility to work to ensure that such things never happen again, or else they're setting the stage for future religious atrocities.

Added: And 12 Monkeys is being too nice. We killed his people by the millions. And you Portuguese were in on it too.

No.... We didn't do anything, we weren't there. Millions were killed, by individuals, most of whom have been lost to history. I am not saying that was not an atrocity, however to attach he actions of individuals to a group of people based on there ethnicity and heritage is pretty racist.

My little corner of the world is a prime example of the "Christians" compassion. In the mid 1700's when Europeans and Spanish arrived there were about 18,000 Haida. It was all good at first trade fur for metal,then fur ran short and we outlived our usefullness to them. In 1863 there were about 1000 left.

The survivors then had their children kidnapped and shipped to residential schools.....Christians and the like.....BARBARIANS!

To you as well... those responsible for what happened to your people are dead... To say that all Christians are responsible is to say to an individual "You kinda look like the person that is responsible so I am holding you responsible" and once again Racist

you are very blessed person to have such confidence in your opinions. thank you for sharing... heheheyeah anybody can choose to be a Christian it is unfair to say that ethnicity is a reason to segregate.are all Christians racist? or just some of them? no Christian racists? amazing....anyways... hehehewhat does a Christian look like?heheheheh Praise Jesus, how do you pray? do you pray?

Logged

Fuck the Bible, you can't even eat in it.

First I told my imaginary friend about Jesus, then I told Jesus about my imaginary friend.

It isn't actually racist in that latter case, but a valid point otherwise.

I regret the atrocities that people committed in the past, but I myself did not commit any of those atrocities. It's true that, descended from European immigrants as I am, I probably benefited indirectly from those things, but the fact of the matter is that I could not have done a single thing to stop them. The most I can hope to do is try to keep such things from happening again.

However. When Christians disregard those horrible events that happened because of Christians who came before them, when they try to pretend that they weren't done by real Christians, when they rewrite history by whitewashing the reputations of previous Christians, then they are committing an atrocity of their own. They're perpetuating the myth of infallibility and creating the conditions for future Christians to repeat those crimes and atrocities of the past.

A modern-day Christian may not bear guilt for the Inquisition or the Holocaust, but they have the responsibility to work to ensure that such things never happen again, or else they're setting the stage for future religious atrocities.

heheheI agree we wouldn't want Christians doing anything but spreading the word....um how do they spread the word?

Logged

Fuck the Bible, you can't even eat in it.

First I told my imaginary friend about Jesus, then I told Jesus about my imaginary friend.

To you as well... those responsible for what happened to your people are dead... To say that all Christians are responsible is to say to an individual "You kinda look like the person that is responsible so I am holding you responsible" and once again Racist

Those that made up religion are dead. Does that stop you from believing?

The past effects us all in various ways. No, I didn't personally attack any Indian villages or deliberately distribute smallpox-infected blankets to Indian villagers, but I had damn well better learn that we humans are capable of such things or I might end up repeating such atrocities. Or end up being on the receiving end from some other ignorant or frightened group. And in the meantime I will use the generic "we" when referring to past atrocities simply to remind myself that in a different time I might have been far less hesitant to kill for my own convenience.

No.... We didn't do anything, we weren't there. Millions were killed, by individuals, most of whom have been lost to history. I am not saying that was not an atrocity, however to attach he actions of individuals to a group of people based on there ethnicity and heritage is pretty racist. To you as well... those responsible for what happened to your people are dead... To say that all Christians are responsible is to say to an individual "You kinda look like the person that is responsible so I am holding you responsible" and once again Racist

Mhaberling: Were you there, then you would have killed, just because of your beliefs.

You can't get out of it that easy. Nearly all religions, are taught to kill with impunity, it is righteous and correct according to there own tenets and doctrines. the fact that those very same tenets and doctrines still exist is very telling about religion.

If you believed that god or jesus gave you leave to kill Jo Bloggs down the road you would do it.I've even heard christians state that they would kill there own children if god asked. It has nothing to do with individuals, but all to do with the belief and doctrines they are inculcated with.

Logged

We theists have no evidence for our beliefs. So no amount of rational evidence will dissuade us from those beliefs. - JCisall

It would be pretty piss poor brainwashing, if the victims knew they were brainwashed, wouldn't it? - Screwtape. 04/12/12

No.... We didn't do anything, we weren't there. Millions were killed, by individuals, most of whom have been lost to history. I am not saying that was not an atrocity, however to attach he actions of individuals to a group of people based on there ethnicity and heritage is pretty racist. To you as well... those responsible for what happened to your people are dead... To say that all Christians are responsible is to say to an individual "You kinda look like the person that is responsible so I am holding you responsible" and once again Racist

Mhaberling: Were you there, then you would have killed, just because of your beliefs.

You can't get out of it that easy. Nearly all religions, are taught to kill with impunity, it is righteous and correct according to there own tenets and doctrines. the fact that those very same tenets and doctrines still exist is very telling about religion.

If you believed that god or jesus gave you leave to kill Jo Bloggs down the road you would do it.I've even heard christians state that they would kill there own children if god asked. It has nothing to do with individuals, but all to do with the belief and doctrines they are inculcated with.

Haha... oh shit...

Bertaberts... Im not trying to get out of anything.... I am aware that if put in that situation, probably would have killed to. But I wouldn't have been me, I would have had a different upbringing and been exposed to the veiwpoints of the time. You probably would have killed in that situation to kiddo.

You say I'm trying ti get out of it as if I was guilty of something in the first place. All i'm saying is that the actions of individuals, should be seen as that. I do not hold you accountable for every terrible thing Atheists have done throughout history, don't hold me to all the terrible things Christians have done.

Also, I can tell you that if God ever told me to kill my own children... I would promptly tell God to F off. And you do not know what I was taught or what I believe. You know nothing about me except for a screen name and a post yet u have extrapolated so much. But you telling me who I am from such little information is kinda amusing so ill give you a little more to see what you can do with it I like medium rare stakes and room temp Crown Royal poured over ice. Please tell me more about myself based on that.

Oh and have you met Jo Bloggs, Jo Bloggs is a terrible man and deserves to die!

No but seriously I don't think I would kill Jo, that doesn't sound like something I would do.

Also remember religions are not the only parts of society that have justified killing in the past.

You

Logged

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." - Benjamin Franklin

Most people like to trot out Stalin and other communist dictators. But they aren't atheistic - they just wanted people to obey them without question and saw religion as a competing influence.

So how does that make Stalin not an Atheist? But it doesn't really matter I said I wasn't going to hold you to anything bad an atheist has done through history.

Stalin was an atheist out of convenience. He didn't want any competition. He was a divinity student when younger and knew the power of religion. He had no room for power sharing in the world he envisioned.

Stalin was an atheist out of convenience. He didn't want any competition. He was a divinity student when younger and knew the power of religion. He had no room for power sharing in the world he envisioned.

Thats OK wasn't holding you to it anyway....

oh comment on your signature...

My Kids right not to get murdered exceeds your right to own a baseball bat.