oh fer Pete's sake people, the suggestion of sending Grandma ashes from someone's fireplace was a joke. that's how it was meant, and that's how it was taken by the only person who counts, which would be the Queen. the Queen even replied that it had been considered.

it's called Gallow's humor. if the Queen, wasn't offended, and the cremains in question are her uncle, and the person being difficult is her grandmother, i can't see why anyone else here would be offended. it's certainly not worthy of snarky comments about other E-Hellions.

but apparently i don't "see" much.

You must have missed these posts where the posters specifically stated they were not kidding.

Having read the whole thread, the fireplace ash in the urn idea sounds like the one to run with. OP, do you have a relationship with DIL that you two could set it up on the QT?

you can read it however you want to, but i read it as continuing the joke.

but the fact remains that i don't understand what has offended you so much about this when the Queen wasn't olffended. the Queen is a very capable communicator here. if that offended her, she could, and would, have shut that down forthwith.

I'm not really sure how else you can take it when posters say they are not joking?

I'm not sure why my distaste of an idea means that I "can't take a joke" but WillyNilly's telling other posters what they can post is not at all a problem?

As for the debate here I find it hypocritical that it is being bantered that discussing splitting the ashes is somehow offensive but a "joke" about giving a mother fireplaces ashes and LYING about it is somehow not frowned upon on an etiquette board.

oh fer Pete's sake people, the suggestion of sending Grandma ashes from someone's fireplace was a joke. that's how it was meant, and that's how it was taken by the only person who counts, which would be the Queen. the Queen even replied that it had been considered.

it's called Gallow's humor. if the Queen, wasn't offended, and the cremains in question are her uncle, and the person being difficult is her grandmother, i can't see why anyone else here would be offended. it's certainly not worthy of snarky comments about other E-Hellions.

but apparently i don't "see" much.

You must have missed these posts where the posters specifically stated they were not kidding.

Having read the whole thread, the fireplace ash in the urn idea sounds like the one to run with. OP, do you have a relationship with DIL that you two could set it up on the QT?

you can read it however you want to, but i read it as continuing the joke.

but the fact remains that i don't understand what has offended you so much about this when the Queen wasn't olffended. the Queen is a very capable communicator here. if that offended her, she could, and would, have shut that down forthwith.

I'm not really sure how else you can take it when posters say they are not joking?

I'm not sure why my distaste of an idea means that I "can't take a joke" but WillyNilly's telling other posters what they can post is not at all a problem?

you are completely missing my point. i don't understand why this was so offensive to you when it was not offensive to the poster involved. the Queen is very capable of letting us know if we have posted something that she finds offensive. she did not.

i'm not getting into your argument with WillyNilly. that's between the two of you.

oh fer Pete's sake people, the suggestion of sending Grandma ashes from someone's fireplace was a joke. that's how it was meant, and that's how it was taken by the only person who counts, which would be the Queen. the Queen even replied that it had been considered.

it's called Gallow's humor. if the Queen, wasn't offended, and the cremains in question are her uncle, and the person being difficult is her grandmother, i can't see why anyone else here would be offended. it's certainly not worthy of snarky comments about other E-Hellions.

but apparently i don't "see" much.

You must have missed these posts where the posters specifically stated they were not kidding.

Having read the whole thread, the fireplace ash in the urn idea sounds like the one to run with. OP, do you have a relationship with DIL that you two could set it up on the QT?

you can read it however you want to, but i read it as continuing the joke.

but the fact remains that i don't understand what has offended you so much about this when the Queen wasn't olffended. the Queen is a very capable communicator here. if that offended her, she could, and would, have shut that down forthwith.

I'm not really sure how else you can take it when posters say they are not joking?

I'm not sure why my distaste of an idea means that I "can't take a joke" but WillyNilly's telling other posters what they can post is not at all a problem?

you are completely missing my point. i don't understand why this was so offensive to you when it was not offensive to the poster involved. the Queen is very capable of letting us know if we have posted something that she finds offensive. she did not.

i'm not getting into your argument with WillyNilly. that's between the two of you.

You are completely missing my point. You don't get to decide if something is offensive to anyone but yourself. Conversely you don't get to tell someone else that you are not offended by something so they can't be either. Never once did I say that I thought the OP should be offended. I'm not trying to fight with WillyNilly I just find it hypocritical that you are getting on my case for doing the same thing she's doing. As the OP is not offended by either suggestion the only difference that I can see between us is that I'm a fairly new poster and WillyNilly is not. Not to mention the fact that I was able to back up my statements with actual quotes from previous posters. Telling people that they "can't take a joke" when they disagree with you is classic bullying behavior and frankly I'm quite disappointed to see it on an etiquette board.

oh fer Pete's sake people, the suggestion of sending Grandma ashes from someone's fireplace was a joke. that's how it was meant, and that's how it was taken by the only person who counts, which would be the Queen. the Queen even replied that it had been considered.

it's called Gallow's humor. if the Queen, wasn't offended, and the cremains in question are her uncle, and the person being difficult is her grandmother, i can't see why anyone else here would be offended. it's certainly not worthy of snarky comments about other E-Hellions.

but apparently i don't "see" much.

Quite honestly, I did not see any humour either, and I think people could indeed find it offensive. My late Dh was cremated last year.

It's quite possible to have a memorial service without any remains at all present - that's what we did.

As for the debate here I find it hypocritical that it is being bantered that discussing splitting the ashes is somehow offensive but a "joke" about giving a mother fireplaces ashes and LYING about it is somehow not frowned upon on an etiquette board.

This. That is what bothered me the most. I really don't think (general) you get to go around talking about how "abhorrent" you find people's suggestions and asking that they not make those suggestions anymore when you yourself are making some (arguably) equally awful and tasteless suggestions. And if it was a joke? Well, unfortunately, being a joke does not preclude a remark from also being tasteless and/or offensive.

I also don't buy that it's somehow silly or ridiculous to find something in a thread offensive just because the OP doesn't find it offensive. If someone says something homophobic or anti-Semitic, I don't have to be homosexual or Jewish to be offended. Same thing here. So the OP doesn't find it offensive. That doesn't mean others of us can't be disturbed, offended, or, frankly, appalled at the suggestion of sending a grieving mother fake ashes or the enthusiastic manner in which that suggestion has been received.

« Last Edit: October 02, 2012, 11:18:44 PM by TheBardess »

Logged

"Follies and nonsense, whims and inconsistencies DO divert me, I own- and I laugh at them whenever I can." -Jane Austen

oh fer Pete's sake people, the suggestion of sending Grandma ashes from someone's fireplace was a joke. that's how it was meant, and that's how it was taken by the only person who counts, which would be the Queen. the Queen even replied that it had been considered.

it's called Gallow's humor. if the Queen, wasn't offended, and the cremains in question are her uncle, and the person being difficult is her grandmother, i can't see why anyone else here would be offended. it's certainly not worthy of snarky comments about other E-Hellions.

but apparently i don't "see" much.

You must have missed these posts where the posters specifically stated they were not kidding.

Having read the whole thread, the fireplace ash in the urn idea sounds like the one to run with. OP, do you have a relationship with DIL that you two could set it up on the QT?

you can read it however you want to, but i read it as continuing the joke.

but the fact remains that i don't understand what has offended you so much about this when the Queen wasn't olffended. the Queen is a very capable communicator here. if that offended her, she could, and would, have shut that down forthwith.

I'm not really sure how else you can take it when posters say they are not joking?

I'm not sure why my distaste of an idea means that I "can't take a joke" but WillyNilly's telling other posters what they can post is not at all a problem?

you are completely missing my point. i don't understand why this was so offensive to you when it was not offensive to the poster involved. the Queen is very capable of letting us know if we have posted something that she finds offensive. she did not.

i'm not getting into your argument with WillyNilly. that's between the two of you.

You are completely missing my point. You don't get to decide if something is offensive to anyone but yourself. Conversely you don't get to tell someone else that you are not offended by something so they can't be either. Never once did I say that I thought the OP should be offended. I'm not trying to fight with WillyNilly I just find it hypocritical that you are getting on my case for doing the same thing she's doing. As the OP is not offended by either suggestion the only difference that I can see between us is that I'm a fairly new poster and WillyNilly is not. Not to mention the fact that I was able to back up my statements with actual quotes from previous posters. Telling people that they "can't take a joke" when they disagree with you is classic bullying behavior and frankly I'm quite disappointed to see it on an etiquette board.

so noted. i didn't think i was picking on you for disagreeing with me. i was trying to make the point that the OP wasn't offended. you are obviously entitled to your feelings, as am i.

just so you know? i have no idea how long you've been here in relation to how WillyNilly has been here. i don't pay attention to such things when i respond to someone. perhaps you've been made to feel that your opinion is not as important since you haven't been here as long as someone else. that was not done by me, and i am not willing to take the hit for it.

i promise i will be very aware of your posts from now on, and will leave you alone.

FWIW, I don't think the argument was that everyone should find splitting ashes offensive across the board but pointing out that some people do and since somebody else is in charge of the ashes it might be best not to suggest something that would be potentially offensive for the sake of appeasing somebody who had a bad relationship with the deceased and bereaved, I think the intent was also to make clear that the case for splitting had been made and that to keep bringing it up might be overkill, as it were.

That being said, I don't think the idea of deceiving people with fake ashes is a good thing to introduce on an etiquette site - whether it is a joke or a serious suggestion. This is an issue some people have genuine anxiety over when they do choose cremation, the idea of getting the wrong ashes or something along those lines. I do think it is reasonable to point out that it is a joke/suggestion that people should pull back on.

oh fer Pete's sake people, the suggestion of sending Grandma ashes from someone's fireplace was a joke. that's how it was meant, and that's how it was taken by the only person who counts, which would be the Queen. the Queen even replied that it had been considered.

it's called Gallow's humor. if the Queen, wasn't offended, and the cremains in question are her uncle, and the person being difficult is her grandmother, i can't see why anyone else here would be offended. it's certainly not worthy of snarky comments about other E-Hellions.

but apparently i don't "see" much.

Quite honestly, I did not see any humour either, and I think people could indeed find it offensive. My late Dh was cremated last year.

It's quite possible to have a memorial service without any remains at all present - that's what we did.

karen, i will tell you that i am sorry for your loss. i don't doubt that some people could find the gallow's humor offensive. i can understand why you do. my point was, the OP didn't, and those remarks were directed at her, not at anyone else.

to go back to the original topic, i'm not seeing Grandma being willing to have any kind of service without the cremains of her son present at the memorial service.

so noted. i didn't think i was picking on you for disagreeing with me. i was trying to make the point that the OP wasn't offended. you are obviously entitled to your feelings, as am i.

just so you know? i have no idea how long you've been here in relation to how WillyNilly has been here. i don't pay attention to such things when i respond to someone. perhaps you've been made to feel that your opinion is not as important since you haven't been here as long as someone else. that was not done by me, and i am not willing to take the hit for it.

i promise i will be very aware of your posts from now on, and will leave you alone.

If the OP is as capable of defending herself as you claim I'm not sure why you felt the need to white night for her?

And really? That last sentence is ridiculously snarky and uncalled for - I thought one of the major rules on this forum was to not announce when you were ignoring people/taking a coke break?

FWIW, I don't think the argument was that everyone should find splitting ashes offensive across the board but pointing out that some people do and since somebody else is in charge of the ashes it might be best not to suggest something that would be potentially offensive for the sake of appeasing somebody who had a bad relationship with the deceased and bereaved, I think the intent was also to make clear that the case for splitting had been made and that to keep bringing it up might be overkill, as it were.

That being said, I don't think the idea of deceiving people with fake ashes is a good thing to introduce on an etiquette site - whether it is a joke or a serious suggestion. This is an issue some people have genuine anxiety over when they do choose cremation, the idea of getting the wrong ashes or something along those lines. I do think it is reasonable to point out that it is a joke/suggestion that people should pull back on.

you know something, Sharnita? i've made it clear to my family that i prefer cremation when the time comes, and the bolded really never occurred to me. i don't discount it in the least, the fear makes a lot of sense. it just never occurred to me.

so noted. i didn't think i was picking on you for disagreeing with me. i was trying to make the point that the OP wasn't offended. you are obviously entitled to your feelings, as am i.

just so you know? i have no idea how long you've been here in relation to how WillyNilly has been here. i don't pay attention to such things when i respond to someone. perhaps you've been made to feel that your opinion is not as important since you haven't been here as long as someone else. that was not done by me, and i am not willing to take the hit for it.

i promise i will be very aware of your posts from now on, and will leave you alone.

If the OP is as capable of defending herself as you claim I'm not sure why you felt the need to white night for her?

And really? That last sentence is ridiculously snarky and uncalled for - I thought one of the major rules on this forum was to not announce when you were ignoring people/taking a coke break?

i didn't say i was going to ignore you. i said that i was going to leave you alone. there is a bit of a difference. and i can't drink coke anymore, so i don't take coke breaks.

If grandma is at all familiar with human ashes the wood ashes switch won't work. I think that anyone who has dealt with human ashes would guess the fakes.

I've had to transport human ashes twice, and they were very heavy for the size of the box. The first time a very kind man lifted the "person" into the overhead compartment on the plane for me. He must have wondered what I had packed, but I didn't tell him. I was very fit at that time, but couldn't lift the heavy box over my head. The second time I needed to transport ashes I just left them in my car trunk, until I got to the cemetery.

I never opened the plastic and looked at the actual ashes. Gramma dishes, who did see them, posted that they are rather like ".....tiny itsy bitsy pebbles....." Wood stove ashes are like dust - at least at our house.

I think that I agree with SPuck, who said.....

I think in the end, no one should guilt or even politely suggest the grieving DIL into any action she does not want to do nor would her husband want to do. In the end it is going to be the OP's mother who has to deal with her own lack of spine in the relationship she has with her mother, no one else.

I feel very badly for OP's mother, who has this difficult parent to deal with. Perhaps her health will be better if she learns to say - no - to her mother sometimes.

My mother will probably have some major stress-induced health crisis.....

is stated by the OP. If grandma is 99, then mom is likely in her 60's, and doesn't need any more stress.

It would be difficult to change a lifetime pattern but perhaps even taking some small steps would help OP's mother.