Dumbest ! , Genisis are in my opinion are bobbins , and if you listen to Gabriel albums from 3 onwards , i think i have a case that he is far better song writer, and indeed a singer , as don`t forget little phill was his replacement, and Gabriel did not a sell out to the yuppie market as Genesis did . This is my opinon and if that is the dumbest thing you have ever heard , well fair enough , i take it you like a bit of Prog then , or is it just the cheeky chappy Phill ?

If you dont like the band, thats fine. There's a lot of bands I dont like, but if you reread my post, I stated that you said Collins was not a good drummer and thats one of the stupidest things i've ever read. The guy was downright fantastic.

By the way, are you a drummer? I'm just curious as to how your coming to your conclusion. If so, you really dont think he was a good drummer on any of the Genesis albums like 'Foxtrot', 'Nursery Crymes', 'Selling England By The Pound', 'A Trick Of The Tail', etc,,? How about other projects like the killer groove he played on Frida's 'Something Going On'? Maybe the killer stuff he played on 'Bad Love' by Clapton. We could talk about 'In The Air Tonight' with one of the most famous drum licks ever produced in modern music. Hell, maybe we should just ask some of these artists that are listed on Phils Drummerworld page - GenesisThe Phil Collins Big BandPeter GabrielRay CooperBrian EnoStingHelen TerryRobert PlantEric ClaptonPaul McCartneyBrand XOzzy OsbornePhil BaileyB.B. KingAlbert KingPaul ButterfieldThe Manhattan TransferOletta AdamsN SyncRosie O' DonnellStevie Ray VaughanFridaRobert FrippJohn CaleAdam AntBunny BeriganPhilip BaileyPeter BanksStephen BishopsBrand XGary BrookerCaf&#233; JacquesCamelAl DiMeolaEmpireFridaDave GreensladeSteve HackettDaryl HallRupert HineEddie HowellHoward JonesJack LancasterEliott MurphyRalph McTellMike OldfieldTears for FearsTina Turner

Ah ! I didn`t say he wasn`t a very good drummer , i said Genisis arnt a very good Prog band in my opinoin , as a pop , group then i could name worse If i was to ask someone then i would ask Jimmy Page Can i drum . no . , but that dosnt mean a dont know a good drummer when i hear one . :-/

In the air tonight ! , Neil Peart would do that in his sleep and still be disapointed, he didnt use another six skins !

My Friend McMaul can sing and drum , and i think he would give little Phil a run for his money I.M.OAnd if you want to see a good prog drummer check out Carl Palmer , now he is a good drummer !I.MO.

As i say this is just my opinion , and if you don`t agree , i have no problem with that, but Dumbest , that hurt I have seen a hell of a lot of bands and think i have a bit of knowledge on live bands .

Its better to post than not post at all, and think if i just have said , "Oh yeh that Phill was awesome ", i don`t think i would be true to myself .Nice to have a debate

I agree that Phil was the wrong guy for the Zeppelin gig and it did suck. Phil's style is all wrong for Zeppelin. Granted though, I wouldnt want to hear Bonham doing early prog Genesis either. Doesnt work.

You bring up Neil Peart (as most people would that knows very little about drumming) and state that he could have done 'In The Air Tonight' in his sleep. Well let me tell you something about Neil Peart, he would have struggled with that song because he has ZERO feel when it comes to playing. He's a technical genius, but he's a freaking robot when it comes to swinging and feel. I love Rush, but he has never played anything that got me to sit down and think to my self that he was deep into the pocket and just letting himself go (ex- Keltner, Gadd, Blaine, Kunkel, Gordon, Bonzo). Everything he plays sounds like it comes off of a chart. Another example of this is when he was in the Buddy Rich tribute program. It was downright painful listening to him trying to play jazz. He has no swing at all. Wil Calhoun from 'Living Colour' embarrassed him when they solo'd together.

I love Carl Palmer and he's one of my favorites, but see above. The guy has insane snare skills, but his time keeping is horrible. Listen to any ELP and you can tell that.

As for you seeing a hell of a lot of bands and having a bit of knowledge about live bands,,,,,,well that definately is up for debate.

(awaiting for a response that i'm sure will include Keith Moon, Danny Carey, Mike Portnoy, Bill Bruford or even Travis Barker. This should be fun.)

Not good at anything , yeh , i did say that , but i was not and never considered him as a drummer , so i wasnn`t thinking in terms as a drummer . Neil Peart ! Zero feel ! , well i can`t say anything about that , because i think he`s god and when you say to a god person , i don``t beleive in god , they say , well burn in hell then .

Bonzo ! he`s next god , if Neil sells out [ see phill on that one ]Moon !, Love the Moon , but as good as he was i don`t think he would have made it in any other band . As for the rest , well lets say , if people say drummers little Phill has never even entered my head, i just see him in thoses silly tank tops and heard blasting out of confertables of the yuppie kind and there god damn briefcaes in the back , with there sandwiches in .Yes i hate Yuppies , and the whole 80s hell.

Zero ! , that hurt more than the dumbest . :-/Debates , are subject to my opinion and nobody else , i have my own mind may it be wrong or right .Last 18 odd years, not done anything worth talkin about , about Phill then ?Thought not.

Edit . Just rang Jimmy and he said "you were right tkitna he did suck "

Personally, I can't stand Phil Collins' music. I actually hate it with a passion. But I'd never question his talent because obviously there's something there. I just hate his style of music. A lot. I think I can stand Against All Odds for some reason. So that's something. But that has more to do with personal memories.

Not good at anything , yeh , i did say that , but i was not and never considered him as a drummer , so i wasnn`t thinking in terms as a drummer . Neil Peart ! Zero feel ! , well i can`t say anything about that , because i think he`s god and when you say to a god person , i don``t beleive in god , they say , well burn in hell then .

Bonzo ! he`s next god , if Neil sells out [ see phill on that one ]Moon !, Love the Moon , but as good as he was i don`t think he would have made it in any other band . As for the rest , well lets say , if people say drummers little Phill has never even entered my head, i just see him in thoses silly tank tops and heard blasting out of confertables of the yuppie kind and there god damn briefcaes in the back , with there sandwiches in .Yes i hate Yuppies , and the whole 80s hell.

Zero ! , that hurt more than the dumbest . :-/Debates , are subject to my opinion and nobody else , i have my own mind may it be wrong or right .Last 18 odd years, not done anything worth talkin about , about Phill then ?Thought not.

Edit . Just rang Jimmy and he said "you were right tkitna he did suck "

Hey man, I used to be in that 'Neil Peart is God' stage too, but then I grew up and realized that there's a ton of drummers better than him. Neils great, but he's a one trick pony. I prefer drummers that can play more than one style.

Phil won a grammy and oscar in the last 18 years. What has your boy Jimmy done?

Speaking of Jimmy, does one of the sloppiest live players ever really have the right to judge anybodys performance? Maybe the heroin is kicking in again.

Not my cup of tea, but can't deny the man had an ear for a good tune, and he's done well for himself.Radio 4 did a doco on him recently: when Gabriel left Genisis Collins wanted to continue as a pure instrumental band - he didn't want to sing.

Whats Jimmy done !!!! ??), what apart from doing a concert , with the greatest rock band ever , that half the world wanted a ticket for .Not much .

In 1990, a Knebworth concert to aid the Nordoff-Robbins Music Therapy Centre and the British School for Performing Arts and Technology saw Plant unexpectedly joined by Page to perform "Misty Mountain Hop", "Wearing and Tearing" and "Rock and Roll".[ I was there !!!, me , Mr Dumbest, and so was phill .zzzzzz]

In 1994, Page reunited with Plant for the penultimate performance in MTV's "Unplugged" series. The 90-minute special, dubbed Unledded, premiered to the highest ratings in MTV's history. In October of the same year, the session was released as the CD No Quarter: Jimmy Page and Robert Plant Unledded, and in 2004 as the DVD No Quarter Unledded. Following a highly successful mid-90s tour to support No Quarter, Page and Plant recorded 1998's Walking into Clarksdale.

Since 1990, Page has been heavily involved in remastering the entire Led Zeppelin back catalogue and is currently participating in various charity concerts and charity work, particularly the Action for Brazil's Children Trust (ABC Trust), founded by his wife Jimena Gomez-Paratcha in 1998. In the same year, Page played guitar for rap singer/producer Puff Daddy's song "Come with Me," which heavily samples Led Zeppelin's "Kashmir" and was included in the soundtrack of Godzilla. The two later performed the song on Saturday Night Live. A live album and tour with The Black Crowes follow in 1999. In 2001 he made an appearance on stage with Limp Bizkit frontman Fred Durst and Wes Scantlin of Puddle of Mudd at the MTV Europe Video Music Awards in Frankfurt, where they performed a version of Led Zeppelin's "Thank You".[15]

In 2005, Page was awarded the Order of the British Empire in recognition of his Brazilian charity work at Task Brazil,[16] made an honorary citizen of Rio de Janeiro later that year, and was awarded a Grammy award.[17]

In November 2006, Led Zeppelin were inducted into the UK Music Hall of Fame. The television broadcasting of the event consisted of an introduction to the band by various famous admirers, a presentation of an award to Jimmy Page and then a short speech by the guitarist. After this, rock group Wolfmother played a tribute to Led Zeppelin, playing the song "Communication Breakdown".[18][19]

On 6 January 2007, Page was featured at #19 on Channel 4's The Ultimate Hellraiser, a countdown of music's top 25 who "lived the rock 'n' roll lifestyle". The show's reason for featuring Page was almost exclusively attributed to the groupies who toured with Led Zeppelin. In addition, many of John Bonham's shenanigans (for example driving a motorcycle down a hotel corridor) were blamed on Page.

On 2 December 2007, Contacmusic.com confirmed that Page was "Too traumatised for Zeppelin reunion" until now. He states in the article, "After John Bonham's death I spent 15 years not even wanting to think about Led Zeppelin. But I also have difficulty thinking it's all over. Now at least one concert is planned and I'm incredibly happy about that."

In 2006, Page attended the induction of Led Zeppelin to the UK Music Hall of Fame. During an interview for the BBC for said event, he expressed plans to record new material in 2007, saying "It's an album that I really need to get out of my system... there's a good album in there and it's ready to come out" and "Also there will be some Zeppelin things on the horizon".[Neil is god . and thou who as been led astary , should have seen him last year , and said behold , the god of drums is back . amen .

Ok, I breifly scanned through that. Basically it told me that Page has been living off the laurels of Led Zeppelin except for some award he recieved in Brazil (WTF is he doing in or for Brazil anyways?). When the guy does anything creative or new instead of playing the same rehashed stuff from Zep 30 years ago,,,let me know. Until then, I guess you'll have to enjoy your copy of Outrider or Coverdale/Page. (barf2)