Radicalization
Podcast for September 2011
Beat Intro
Voiceover
00.08 This is the Beat – a podcast series that keeps you in the know about the
latest community policing topics facing our nation.
Interview
Jeremy Writt
00.15 Hello and welcome. On behalf of the COPS Office, I’m Jeremy Writt.
And I’m here with Chief Ronald Haddad of the City of Dearborn Police
Department. We’re here today to talk about radicalization. Now Chief, in
terms of law enforcement, what do we mean when we use the word,
radicalization?
Ron
00.30 You know, first of all, to say that it’s evolving, it’s complex, it means
different things to different people and there’s no one pat answer for that
question will underscore the problem. But radicalization, basically, as I
understand it, is the ideology that someone may employ and the
outcome would be a revolt against a particular culture, society, religion –
where they believe so strongly in what they are doing that they employ
violence to get their point across.
Jeremy
01.06 And how big of a problem is this?
Ron
01.07 You know, the outcomes can be huge problems. You can look around
the world and see the events that have happened – and you know, I
think Timothy McVeigh, for example, was a terrorist. I think right out here
in Arizona, most recently, that man terrorized people; he shot a
congresswoman. Certainly Bin Laden is a terrorist of global proportion.
It’s a huge problem.
Jeremy
01.32 Who should law enforcement be bringing in to help with this kind of
problem?
Ron
01.35 Well you know, certainly the global intelligence community has a pulse
on what’s happening around the world. They see trends, indicators that
those of us at the local level may never be exposed to. And I think that
there’s a strong need to keep that confidential and secret, but I think
when certain trends, certain types of training that are being afforded in
foreign or covert places are identified – I think that those kind of
indicators, when appropriate, should be passed on to the localities
because we just may come across something like that and so I think we
all need to work together. I have a great appreciation for the intelligence
community, you know, at a local and state level. And it starts by reducing
crime, identifying major crime – it’s all-hazards approach and it will
further impact the item of terrorism as well.
Jeremy
02.38 In your jurisdiction you used community-oriented police to help mitigate
the problem of radicalization. What are some of the specific ways you
are solving this problem?
Ron
02.47 Well, you know, proactively we’ve done a number of things. We have a
very active police explorer post here – career development – we get kids
from the community; they serve as goodwill ambassadors and role
models that break down stereotypes. And during these very hard
economic times, we’ve carved out a little part of the budget for interns –
because again, with the interns, we try to motivate kids to test high,
maintain a high grade point average, then we select a few each year
from the senior class and they have some college reimbursement, but
they have to do well there and they have to take law enforcement
classes.
We’ve also put on a youth academy -- classes for young people right
across the board to try to proactively reach them with some degree
respect. On the challenging side, we’ve identified people in the Yemen
community – young people that are struggling in school, they have a 1.7
grade point average and not surprising – they’re single-parent
households, so the social problems that any single parent would have
raising a young boy that’s trying to assimilate here – they have. And we
found that some of them were susceptible to gang activity, assaultive
behavior and anti-social behavior, so we work very close with school
officials and social agencies in that particular community – to identify
them and to try to bring them forward.
As you might know, I served on Secretary Napolitano’s Homeland
Security Committee here last April. And one of the things we
recommended – and it’s a tall order – was that just maybe when one of
these individuals is brought to the attention of a school counselor by a
third party – meaning a teacher or a parent or a psychiatrist or an Imam or
a reverend or a social worker. You know oftentimes they go to those
parties and sometimes those parties are not really in a position to help
them, but some violence or some real harmful anti-social behavior is
indicated. We’re trying to get some type of legislation or administrative
procedural laws passed, that at the very least, those individuals –
including doctors – can say well, you know, this might be something you
may want to report to your local police department.
So I think those kind of things will go a long way in diffusing these type
of individuals.
And if you stop and look at the tennis shoe bomber – these were loners
(;like the Virginia Tech shoot)r.) But people try to report them. People try
to report them to appropriate agencies. Mr. Abdulmutallab – his father
went to some high-ranking government officials in Africa and tried to
report that he felt his son was up to something and you know, he ends
up making it as far as the Michigan skies and he was right over
Dearborn when they ended up slamming him to the ground on the
airplane.
So you know we have to have an open line of communication. We have
to continue to educate the public and they have to trust their police – that
they’re going to do the right thing and it does start at the local level.
We’re the biggest in number. We’re the first line of defense, if you will,
that the community will come to and you’ve got to establish that trust
before you have the problem. You have to ensure that there’s an open
line of communication.
I, for example, serve on a number of civil rights organizations and
committees here in the state because I want to know how they feel. I
want to ensure them that we operate within the Constitution and that we
foster just a good communication, a good relationship with all segments
of our community.
Jeremy
06.37 Well I think your key word there was pro-activity. Are there any other
lessons that you’ve learned that might benefit other agencies in dealing
with this problem?
Ron
06.45 I think the major lesson, Jeremy, is this – that we can’t assume all people
are terrorists and put them on the defensive. What we should assume is
that the vast majority of people are good people, because that’s the case.
If everybody of a particular ethnicity or religion or color or affiliation was a
terrorist we’d really be in big trouble here. The reality is that those who
engage in true acts of terror are a very small minority and what we want
to make sure is that somebody who’s salvageable, reachable – that we
can intercede proactively.
So you have to treat the community as an equal partner. And that’s all
segments – be it the faith-based community, civic groups, ethnic groups
– they have to be truly respected. And I found – I’ve been in law
enforcement I like to tell people 38 short years of my life - and the
greatest learning job I had was when I was forced to become a
community relations officer right before I made sergeant in the Detroit
police department. And you know, we tend to be in a responsive
business. We’re on the go, we’re reactionary.
And that job that I was forced to take taught me that the vast majority of
people are there trying to defend their communities, defend their homes,
their businesses. And when you reach out to them they’re more than
willing to be an equal partner and help you out. So everything from
cleaning the streets to reporting crime – it’s absolutely amazing.
Here in Dearborn, we’ve had a serious uptake in serious crime lately –
major crime. The vast majority of those cases were brought to closure
much sooner because citizens from all around the region have given us
tips. We had three robberies here in Dearborn and a number of citizens
from Detroit appeared here at the police station. They had trust in our
city and in our police department to come in here and give us very
valuable information that allowed us to go out and make three arrests
outside of our city limits. And then as we find out – not much to
anybody’s surprise – these three individuals were wanted for robberies
throughout the region. So people have to trust you and they have to
have a reasonable expectation that you’ll respond to them.
But the most important thing – we have to work hard to make people
equal partners long before any of these kind of events take place. You
can’t come in cold and demand that somebody lock arms with you and
take a strong stand against terror in their community when you haven’t
built that relationship and when it is a very elusive thing to define.
So we have to be careful, but we can’t sit down on it. We have to adopt a
policy that protects our nation one block at a time. And I feel that the vast
majority of people are good Americans and they need to be treated as
such. And if you find somebody having to defend or explain the fact that
they’re American just like you or I, you’re behind the curve. Those
people, whoever those people may be – and I’m not putting them in that
category – but whoever that individual or group may be, they’re already
at a disadvantage to help you because they should not have to stand up
and defend that they’re Americans just like you or I.
Jeremy
10.08 Of course not. Well Chief, unfortunately we’ve run out of time. But I
want to thank you again for taking the time to talk with us today. On
behalf of Chief Ronald Haddad and the City of Dearborn Police and of
course, the COPS Office, I’m Jeremy Writt.
Beat Exit
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safe by giving grants to law enforcement agencies, developing
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problems.
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