Saturday, April 16, 2016

How About Something Big?

Deano is taking a stand, but is he thinking big enough? In replying to the Task Force contention that the Collective Bargaining Agreement is an impediment to their desire to railroad as many officers as possible, Dean stakes out a decent position:

Angelo said changes to the rigid process that must be followed to discipline wayward officers are possible, only after the five-year union contract expires on June 30, 2017. And changes will happen then, only if the city gives the union something in return.

“Anybody who wants to discuss the contract or impact the language that’s in there right now will have to come to the process of negotiations…When we start negotiations in June 2017, I’m sure the city will come to us with a list of items, and we’ll also have a list of items,” Angelo said.

You want to put Rahm in a bind? You want to make waves that will sweep far and wide?

Residency.

Yes, we know it's state law (home rule and all that). But every single police union that has sued has won in the courts. Courts overturn improper laws all the time, and numerous existing precedents give the FOP a better than average chance of vacating the residency law and putting dent in the "home rule" exemptions that gives Chicago pols all sorts of leeway in circumventing what the rest of Illinois has to follow.

Large swaths of Chicago don't want us around and the safe areas are becoming smaller and less safe daily. Fine. Throw the threat of a lawsuit on the table and make Rahm negotiate it away. You know he isn't going to play fair and his negotiators are going to attempt to gut every protection we currently have to make us less-than-citizens. The whole thing is going to arbitration anyway. What have we got to lose?

101 Comments:

Anonymous said...

Put the entire wish list on there...5 yr, 20% wage increase, residency, 29 yrs with 80% pension, 55 and out insurance, no denying time due (oh wait, we're already supposed to have that), make a BFD Day the same as a tour (no matter what schedule you're on), new cars for everyone, and a chicken in every pot!!!!!!

I read in a previous post that the police should protest to make sure our views are heard...

How about a protest in front of Holy Name Cathedral on a Sunday morning. ...

To protest the Archdiocese not transferring father faker after 12 years at his current assignment. ..please note I did not say .....his parish. ....because despite his belief. .....the parish does not belong to him...

Each protester could carry a sign stating which parish they belong to.......and how much their donation would have been...HAD THEY NOT FELT THE NEED TO PROTEST....the disregard of the Archdiocese personnel rules to accommodate this idiot....

They are going to have to address residency sooner than later if they ever want to get anyone to take this job. I personally know 3 guys who wanted to be CPD, were qualified and took jobs in the burbs all because they didnt want to live in this hell hole. I wish I was as smart as they were. I know people will say the burbs arent any better but they are full of shit, the burbs are 100 percent better than here, you just have to pick the right ones. Taxes may be higher but they arent higher that paying tuition at Loyola or Ignatious for 4 years. Wishfull thinking I know.....

Forget about cars, how about keeping people we lock-up 48 hours unless they post bond. All this I-bond crap where they are out before we finish our tour is BS. How many times do we lock them up and they still have the CB number on their hand.

WHY would you give up the 24hr cooling off period after a shooting in exchange for residency? The feds have - what - seventy-two hours? Everyone else has 48hrs. Guys, think before you offer up EVERY SINGLE OFFICER involved in ANY shooting from that day forward. You might say it's worth it to free everyone from residency, but the day YOU are the officer involved in a shooting, it means EVERYTHING to have some time to gather yourself, seek counsel and get a handle on the incident that just changed your life forever.

There is no way we get residency dropped by an arbitratot. Residency is an ordinance, a law. It takes legislative action by the City Council to change it. An arbitrator can not force contract action on a third party.

About 20 years ago there was a lot of noise at the FOP meetings regarding residency change. It was a non-starter. At that time a large contingent (about 24% of department) lived up in 016. A lifting of residency would have been financially devastating to all those police and city workers that bought $130k house for $300k. Near fistfights between two factions.

You are foolish idiots if you even think of thinking about trading due process rights for residency.

Sure, you will be able to live in the burbs. But they are expensive too. And a lot of the City AHs have moved out there. And the longer drive expense. You may have your house but if it easier to lose your job, you are no better off. Maybe worse off.

What it would take to lift residency is that the City Council would have to pass an ordinance. Do not cede anything to the City until and unless that new ordinance is enacted. Or Rahm will give you the old reach around saying " I did what I could but I couldn't get the Council to pass it"

And you will have lost vital legal protection and gained nothing

And think long and hard about ceding any legal protection in this totally hostile anti-police environment. Remember that if you lose this job you dont just go out and get another police job. You most likely face prison.

No thanks. I knew what the conditions of employment were when I took the job. Theres a real small thing that maybe we should be worried about and that's the pension fund. Until that's fixed I don't think anything new should be brought to the table

Are Street, Donahue, Dougherty and Graham being brought up on internal union charges to throw them each out of the FOP. What did they do? Were private emails sent the State Lodge discovered? Inquiring minds want to know.

We need it lifted before this city goes to shit and you won't get squat for your house! I don't care how much you paid for your house, if you bought above your means then you are a fool! Residency has got to go!

I'm scared of lifting that residency rule. 1. My house won't sell for anything close to what I paid for it. 2. My family won't sell their homes anything close to what they paid for it. 3. Families are close knit within these Southside neighborhoods, and after that rule is lifted there will be an mass exodus.

YES! Residency sucks!. It is an archaic, bullshit way of keeping us tied to the lord's land like the serfs they treat us like. Complete bullshit. And those dumb asses that say the city will crumble if cops move out are complete morons. We don't have that much of an impact, as can be seen by our voting.

The lifting of the residency requirement would destroy this city. It's never going to happen. In addition to destroying the city, anyone who owns a home here that works for the city would be financially ruined. Again, it's never going to happen.

I could give a crap about how much a house is worth. So a few cops lose money, many more cops have already lost money living south or west. Lift residency so I don't have to pay for those teachers who say f--k the police. I want my tax money to go to a city where I can raise a family safely. And not worry about my baby getting shot in the head.

Nothing would make me happier than to move out of this shit hole! Why anyone likes living here is beyond me! All my family and friends are in the burbs. Looking for the right job out there right now. Can't wait to leave this pile of shit city.

Enough of the residency bullshit. Why on earth would you trade ANYTHING protecting your employment for something financial? You will be unemployed in the suburbs with a huge mortgage and high taxes. If you make it to pension there will be none because a huge proportion of the middle class tax base will be gone and not funding the pension. If you want to live in the suburbs take a lateral transfer. I got news for you, the whole county is fucked and the state is right behind it. Don't be foolish, ride it out and retire out of state. Suck it up.

The people of this city don't want us here, the mayor doesn't want us to police, the Task force says we are all racist. Maybe if we were allowed to live outside this hell hole it would change our racist attitudes.

The whole housing market in Chicago is taking a hit. WTF! 200,000 people moved out since the last census. Home values are dropping while taxes are going up. If this violence rate continues and the city doesn't address it the right way - by supporting instead of castigating the cops - you just watch the exodus. The bad thing is that the cops, fire fighters, and other city workers will be still trapped here by their mere employment.

The fop will never negotiate for shit they have backed down to the city for how many yrs. That's y the leadership gets taken care of by the city. The fop is a fucking joke always has been. We need to be represented by the teamsters or a union that is not run by police officers. Wait until the next contract you guys are fuked me I'll be retired thank god. And no you won't be moving out of the city count on that.

The city council could rewrite the ordinance and allow city workers, specifically police, to live outside the city. Crafty ordinance so that officers must reside in Cook County. This would still give officers a lot of suburban options to move. This is a no-brainer.

I read in a previous post that the police should protest to make sure our views are heard...

How about a protest in front of Holy Name Cathedral on a Sunday morning. ...

To protest the Archdiocese not transferring father faker after 12 years at his current assignment. ..please note I did not say .....his parish. ....because despite his belief. .....the parish does not belong to him...

Each protester could carry a sign stating which parish they belong to.......and how much their donation would have been...HAD THEY NOT FELT THE NEED TO PROTEST....the disregard of the Archdiocese personnel rules to accommodate this idiot....

4/16/2016 12:22:00 AM

Most PO's will rant and rave about the job or the mayor but will not get out and carry a sign or protest they want to leave it someone else. Until a few thousand PO's and family members get and do something nothing will happen, that is why the CTU is strong

Anonymous said...They are going to have to address residency sooner than later if they ever want to get anyone to take this job. I personally know 3 guys who wanted to be CPD, were qualified and took jobs in the burbs all because they didnt want to live in this hell hole. I wish I was as smart as they were. I know people will say the burbs arent any better but they are full of shit, the burbs are 100 percent better than here, you just have to pick the right ones. Taxes may be higher but they arent higher that paying tuition at Loyola or Ignatious for 4 years. Wishfull thinking I know.....

4/16/2016 12:29:00 AM

The burbs are 100% better. Politics but not as much. Better, or at least less run down, equipment. Funded pension. Much easier to get into a unit or promoted. I got a few buddies that keep that CPD dream alive and I keep warning them....

Just because they lift residency doesn't mean you HAVE to move out. If you like your house,neighborhood and are close to family just stay.Your property values won't plummet and there wouldn't be a mass exodus. Some people like living in a neighborhood and not a subdivision. It would be nice to have that option though.

I am retiring soon, so I have no dog in this hunt. I will soon be able to do what I want. Here is what I have found so far: there is no Nirvana out there. There are some areas that may be better. There are some that may provide more services, but it is not that simple. The biggest factor will be your travel time. You get out in the sticks and you will be looking at an hour or TWO for your commute time. That's a lot of time added to your working day. That is way worse than you can imagine.

Go for it if you want, but don't give up a thing. It is not going to be worth it. Just my two cents. Maybe you are the kind that likes sitting in traffic. They exist.

There is no way we get residency dropped by an arbitratot. Residency is an ordinance, a law. It takes legislative action by the City Council to change it. An arbitrator can not force contract action on a third party.

About 20 years ago there was a lot of noise at the FOP meetings regarding residency change. It was a non-starter. At that time a large contingent (about 24% of department) lived up in 016. A lifting of residency would have been financially devastating to all those police and city workers that bought $130k house for $300k. Near fistfights between two factions.

Has the Copland housing price bubble burst?

------EitherA) You are a mole.B) You don't know

Residency changed with a ruling by the IL supreme court with Rahm's mayoral candidacy. The Il supreme court begged labor unions to bring the case to them in the majority opinion. Read it and then get back to us. There have been 2 officers that have brought the issue up at multiple FOP meetings. Both of those officers are not part of clicks so they were booed.

If you guys already think the city is headed for detroit status, what do think would happen if thousands of cops and firemen moved out? Bankruptcy for sure, if all city employees were allowed residency.

File the lawsuit and list all the things that we have to pay extra for being forced to live in city. Also create a statistical probability of chances us/family members are more likely to becoming a victims of murder,robbery,theft,agg battery, burglary, battery etc. comparing to us living in some surrounding suburbs.

Sue these fools. They will lose residency and lose nothing. No other major city does anymore. Sorry Emmanuel you dont want us historically racist cops living near Precious lind loving Chicago anymore do ya ??

Come into the 21st century, go to the city council and get the ordinace changed. Those coppers who want to stay in the city can stay, those who want to leave the plantation can. Free at last, free at last.

Wanting a change in the residency requirement is fine, but if you heard Lightfoot talk on Channel 11 recently, she and her block will fight against it. They do not want to open up recruiting outside of Chicago because their are more whites and less blacks the further you go out. In her opinion whites cannot relate to the inner city high crime areas. I am sure the alderman will fight tooth and nail against it. It is interesting times that we live in. Who would have thought that a socialist who praised every communist led government in the world is one of the democratic contenders for president? People forget or they have never known in the first place.

Deano, excuse me , Dr. Deano. Why not put your academic abilities to use and refute each point (except lack of quality training) of the Task Force Report & then post your rebuttal on the seldom used website that you were going to improve? Then, you won't have to grant interviews - just refer them to the web. Take some actual action - then keep your mouth shut as contract negotiations begin since new squads are not a contract issue.

(OT) Now this is how cowards work. Saudi Arabia says if we blame their government for 9/11 they will sell all their assets in the U.S.! Maybe the fear of Trump "making America great again" has them in total fear:

Let's play CPD detectives the hijackers were Saudis and they were from that country OK inspector Callahan who did it?

Without the U.S. military might that county would be nothing more than a banana republic will oil, why do we even bother to protect them Trump is correct he is going to make them pay and pay big for the military support!

Raise the retirement age to 57 , raise mandatory age to 66 . 1 1/2 cola at at 62 and 3 % cola at age 66 .It's a win , win . You can still retire at age 50 but cannot collect until age 57 .Rahm is on board with this. .

Should definitely be one of the major issues on the table for the next contract.

4/16/2016 01:57:00 PM

And give up the ranch for it???The city obviously wants to gut our rights as far as discipline and no anonymous cr's and a boatload of other very important rights that protect us against frivolous beefs & lawsuits.Be careful what you wish for!

Amen SSC. Please Deano don't squander the opportunity to give us a fighting chance to move out of the city if we want to. The safe areas are shrinking and we need help. Do something about this. I have a long time to go and would like to give my small kids a fighting chance.Less than 10 years

We are the only major City that has the homerun rule, and all the other cities didn't go to hell because they abolished it legally through the federal court system. The only people that will be able to leave immediately our renters, after that it will be a slow attrition. And don't forget if a lawsuit is filed the fire department the teachers union and all city workers will jump on .. We need to stop letting The mayor and the alderman take back our modest 2% raises through our taxes and health benefits the rank-and-file needs to wake up and use this tool to finally get out of the city and out of the grip of the mayor and the corrupt alderman ...

I'm for lifting the residency rule.It's time for change. Soon there will be no one who will accept the Police Officer position. Why take a job where there is a good chance you will go to the penitentiary if you make a mistake...Should have been a fireman....

Every post I see is fear that something is going to get taken away if we deal with residency, this is not an arbitrational !!!! The residency rule is something that we should sue for now in federal court not local, this is never !!!never !!!negotiate because we will win and it's own merit there is already precedents.

Anonymous Anonymous said...They will never lift the residency rule. There are about 35,009 city workers who spend alot of money here. Private schools, taxes, supporting business etc. City stickers etc.

4/16/2016 09:00:00 AM

Correction...

There are about 35,009 city workers FORCED to spend a lot of money/live here because of the residency clause.

If the peed-on peons are allowed to escape, who is going to beleft to pay the freight for the non-contributory catered-to constituentson the West and South sides?

Just be careful....Rahm can and will (if he gets pissed) prohibit off duty carry. Off duty carry is a no-no in many cities here in Illinois. Don't say it can't happen here...

I call BULLSHIT on this, I say IT CANT HAPPEN, dickhead!Stubby Rahm (WTF kind of name is that anyway?) can't prohibit off duty carry.He's always pissed-I'll never understand why anyone would want to be a Mayor especiallyIn this City. Continuous lawsuits and litigation, dealing with Faker, that droopy skin Lewis, JJ, the aldercreatures....nothing but headaches and don't forget BLM!

Good thing youse guys are so divided against each other you can't see the forest for the trees.

You guys bring this to court, you got it beat. Slam dunk. Just copy and paste whatever other lawyers wrote for other court cases where residency was beat.

You don't need to negotiate away nothin.

Don't worry, Chicago's housing market will survive. Did NY collapse when coppers could move out? What about LA? If the city survives or fails, it won't be because of a few city workers leaving.

And you guys with your overpriced Georgians in 016 or your bungalows in Garfield Ridge or Mount Greenwood, your houses won't become worthless because 40,000 city workers won't move out overnight. Guys just want the choice, that's all.

Hell half the PO's wont move anyway. If I move it's going to be out of state and I'm not returning here. Good benefit for the new guys though. FOP should sue now, if we win the FOP can ask for a monetary incentive to live in the city.

Hopefully the FOP will actually listen to the the rank and file. Propose a reasonable agreement with a set number of years we must serve and live in the city. As someone mentioned above, there will not be a mass exedous. And no, your property values will not "go to shit". It's time that we are serious about bringing this to the forefront of negotiations- our kids deserve better schools, safer neighborhoods to walk around and play in.

Anonymous Anonymous said...Are Street, Donahue, Dougherty and Graham being brought up on internal union charges to throw them each out of the FOP. What did they do? Were private emails sent the State Lodge discovered? Inquiring minds want to know.

4/16/2016 02:46:00 AM

***

Never going to happen. Donahue is too smart. He is the puppet master. He let everyone else fall on their sword. Could be very expensive for the others thou.

Anonymous said...Just be careful....Rahm can and will (if he gets pissed) prohibit off duty carry. Off duty carry is a no-no in many cities here in Illinois. Don't say it can't happen here...

4/16/2016 07:02:00 AM

No city I know of does that except for department owned weapons.HR218 would exempt us from any silly rule like that.

On a related note there is a Law Enforcement Appreciation Night coming to Wrigley Field. Cubs vs. Padres Wednesday May 11th. All well and good except, if someone can firm this, police officers can no longer enter Wrigley Field, or any other MLB park carrying a weapon. If true, like pro-football they won't be getting my money anymore.

Every post I see is fear that something is going to get taken away if we deal with residency, this is not an arbitrational !!!! The residency rule is something that we should sue for now in federal court not local, this is never !!!never !!!negotiate because we will win and it's own merit there is already precedents.

I cant wait to see the day when some of you wieners realize how many of these suburbs are worse off than the city. even better will be when your get you suburban property tax bill unless you gonna live more than 70 miles from the city.

As someone mentioned above, there will not be a mass exedous. And no, your property values will not "go to shit". It's time that we are serious about bringing this to the forefront of negotiations- our kids deserve better schools, safer neighborhoods to walk around and play in.

4/17/2016 06:46:00 PM

Thats why I live in 16 schools, safety as safe as any fucking suburb the thugs are everywhere.

No city I know of does that except for department owned weapons.HR218 would exempt us from any silly rule like that.

On a related note there is a Law Enforcement Appreciation Night coming to Wrigley Field. Cubs vs. Padres Wednesday May 11th. All well and good except, if someone can firm this, police officers can no longer enter Wrigley Field, or any other MLB park carrying a weapon. If true, like pro-football they won't be getting my money anymore.

There is no way we get residency dropped by an arbitratot. Residency is an ordinance, a law. It takes legislative action by the City Council to change it. An arbitrator can not force contract action on a third party.

About 20 years ago there was a lot of noise at the FOP meetings regarding residency change. It was a non-starter. At that time a large contingent (about 24% of department) lived up in 016. A lifting of residency would have been financially devastating to all those police and city workers that bought $130k house for $300k. Near fistfights between two factions.

Has the Copland housing price bubble burst?

------EitherA) You are a mole.B) You don't know

Residency changed with a ruling by the IL supreme court with Rahm's mayoral candidacy. The Il supreme court begged labor unions to bring the case to them in the majority opinion. Read it and then get back to us. There have been 2 officers that have brought the issue up at multiple FOP meetings. Both of those officers are not part of clicks so they were booed.

America

4/16/2016 10:24:00 AM

No their both goofs. Always asking for the impossible/improbable and asking why I can't have it.

TOO many hair gels.TOO many suburbanites.TOO much college and not enough grade school.TOO many momma boys. TOO many who never worked before here.TOO many public school educated with helicopter parents. TOO many afflicted with affluenza!