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Re: Good article on Maurice Clarett

Originally Posted by KrAzY3

I have to say this. The NCAA will go after the Big 10 and Pac-12 schools, but they employ a three strikes and you are out policy. There was a lot going on at Ohio State before they finally hit them (not all that hard mind you) for the whole improper benefits thing. There were a few incidents that popped up and it was obvious was had been going on. Ohio State managed to suspend the players, or kick them off the team and it was like it never happened. Alabama suspended players for the textbook thing, and still got hit pretty hard over textbooks! There was a clear double standard.

USC was dirty, everyone knew they were dirty. It has been going on for a while with plenty of evidence. Finally, after incident after incident the NCAA decided to hit them. It's upsetting to us Alabama fans because we know any issue, anything, textbooks, a payer being paid for without his knowing or Alabama being involved, any of that is enough to trow Alabama under the bus. It annoys us to see how much other schools can get away with, especially the two conferences that stood up for their beloved NCAA and in doing so seemed to have been favored.

I'll say this - Alabama was not given anything resembling "due process" during the 12-15 years that the NCAA came after you. They did things that would not hold up in court. That is one of the reasons that I want them shut down. The idea that they freely admit to the use of "secret" witnesses is disgusting. How can anyone believe in an organization that punishes schools based on information given by unidentified witnesses? How can we even be sure that these "witnesses" really exist? With a policy like this, they can simply "manufacture" testimony to ensure their desired outcome - testimony delivered by fictitious "secret" witnesses.

But this is a reason to hate the NCAA - not to be angry with other schools who are also subject to their whims.

Re: Good article on Maurice Clarett

Originally Posted by B1GTide

I don't doubt that Clarett got money from boosters, just as I don't doubt that just about every great player at the big schools always have. My point was only about what we got busted for. If the NCAA shut down every school that had boosters "helping" players, we would all be left watching FCS football.

That's easy enough to say, but the NCAA tried to bury Alabama over the Albert Means thing. Each time we hear about money changing hands for a player to come to a team, we get a bit worked up.

Originally Posted by B1GTide

But this is a reason to hate the NCAA - not to be angry with other schools who are also subject to their whims.

The problem is we learned the rules, we learned how the NCAA did things and then watched them not do those things. I think we can all agree that if you apply the Albert Means approach to Maurice, or Cam, all three schools get hammered. I understand your point about the NCAA being unfair, and I am mad at the NCAA about it to but there's also another element here. It's why should we have to watch competitors do things, and benefit from those things, while Alabama struggled for years? Why is Alabama the one walking the tightrope?

Re: Good article on Maurice Clarett

Originally Posted by CHATTBRIT

..... and still they laud Jim Tressel at the OSU.

Some will always love him - he won a championship here, and came close a few other times (and he beat the tar out of Michigan). Some feel betrayed and will never forgive him. Some, like me, are simply disappointed. When it was time for him to make a hard decision, he put his players and a few wins in front of the integrity of the program. He had a chance to do the right thing and didn't. But I never made the mistake of putting him on a pedestal. He is, after all, just human - with strengths and weaknesses of which we know next to nothing.

Re: Good article on Maurice Clarett

The thing I found fascinating was that when Clarret first made these accusations (right after he got kicked out of OSU), a story was published by ESPN about similar occurrences at Youngstown State when Tressel coached there. Of course the violations surfaced after The Vest had left for OSU, but the stories were disturbingly similar. Of course no one was able to add 2+2, so it took what 10 years for The Vest to finally get caught.

Re: Good article on Maurice Clarett

Sigh

Jim Tressel did not get caught paying players anywhere, ever.

Really, I thought that Tidefans was above this sort of thing - just make stuff up that align with your point of view, or listen to the folks saying bad things that align with your point of view? Remember all of the things that were said about Alabama over the last 20 years? I would think that you would have learned.

Re: Good article on Maurice Clarett

Originally Posted by KrAzY3

I think we can all agree that if you apply the Albert Means approach to Maurice, or Cam, all three schools get hammered. I understand your point about the NCAA being unfair, and I am mad at the NCAA about it to but there's also another element here. It's why should we have to watch competitors do things, and benefit from those things, while Alabama struggled for years? Why is Alabama the one walking the tightrope?

I agree with the bolded, because the NCAA set you up - the facts were unimportant. Any time they decide to do that to a school, that school is toast. I have no idea why they decided to pick on Alabama. I have no idea how they pick and choose their "victims". But I don't blame the victims.

Re: Good article on Maurice Clarett

Originally Posted by B1GTide

Stepped in to stop the "money train"? We were busted because players were selling/trading their own stuff, which was/is against NCAA rules. We were not busted for paying players - that was not even a suggestion in the investigation. Tressel was busted for trying to cover it up.

Not making excuses - we broke the rules and have to accept the punishment - but we were not busted for paying players. Whether or not the NCAA should have this kind of power is another story. I hate the NCAA, so am biased, but I'd like to see the entire organization disbanded.

I appreciate your posts, and you seem to be one of the least biased tOSU fans I've ever met, but, the punisghment handed to tOSU for the transgressions of Coach Tressel were ridiculous in context with their severity.

I have had to listen for years to the sanctimonious 'holier than thou' talk regarding tOSU and how evil the SEC was....but the luster was stripped off the program and they have a lot of work to do to rebuild their reputation...Tressel showed he was a pretty dirty coach to have acted so darn righteous, and to honor him during a season of probation wasnt a great PR move, IMO...but what has tOSU done that showed any kind of contrition unless it was to lessen the severity of their punishment...

hopefully they put more emphasis on cleaning up things now with the new 13 person compliance department (what, that many to monitor the program?????), because before it seems one of their primary duties was to make sure that it was kept on the 'down low'.

Boosters are a programs best friend and worst enemy, and a former player saying that isnt a good thing, even if it is someone of Claretts reputation...usually, where theres smoke, theres some kind of a flame....

Not trying to attack you, as I have said, you alwasy seem to post very objective, and usually very unbiased opinions. I know thais is a touchy subject to a fan of a program, from past experiences unfortunately.

Re: Good article on Maurice Clarett

Nothing was made up according to the ESPN article, I'll have to try and find it. Youngstown State went on NCAA probation not long after Tressel left. You are correct that Tressel was not implicated, but the similarities between Clarett's claims and that story were remarkable. Maybe Clarett used that article to fabricate claims; but I don't think he is that smart and I believe there were similar car stories about Pryor.

Re: Good article on Maurice Clarett

As the NCAA would later learn, Isaac was taking money from a booster from virtually the moment he joined the team in 1988. A few hundred here, a thousand or so there, including $3,800 during the 1991 championship season. In all, Isaac got about $10,000, plus the use of various cars, during his career. Ray "The Colonel" Isaac was Tressel's original Maurice Clarett, a Youngstown kid with quick feet and open palms who would lift his team, and coach, to new heights.

Isaac's benefactor was Michael "Mickey" Monus, chairman of the university's board of trustees and a local hero in his own right. As the dazzling, if disheveled CEO of the rapidly expanding Phar-Mor discount drug store chain, he created thousands of local jobs.

* * *

But this much is certain, based on an ESPN review of legal documents and other sources: Monus was no stranger to Tressel. A huge sports fan, Monus could be found on the sidelines during Penguin games. He was on the university athletics committee that hired Tressel. And, according to court testimony that eventually brought the Isaac payments to light, it was Tressel who directed Isaac to Monus at the start of his freshman year.

I don't remember all of the specifics of Clarett's allegations and the Pryor allegations, but a similar fact pattern occurred on both to my recollection, i.e. a booster providing payments and vehicles and Tressel either directed the player to the booster or knew of the relationship in Pryor's case.

I hope this shows that I am not "just making stuff up to aligh with my point of view."

Re: Good article on Maurice Clarett

Originally Posted by bamafaninOhiO

I appreciate your posts, and you seem to be one of the least biased tOSU fans I've ever met, but, the punisghment handed to tOSU for the transgressions of Coach Tressel were ridiculous in context with their severity.

Maybe - maybe not. Consider the actual wrong-doing. OSU players sold or traded their own personal belongings. Right - need to really punish the school for that. Then again, maybe not.

As for Tressel's lying - he was fired and a show cause placed. That seems pretty fair.

And, lest we forget, we had an undefeated season this year. So the punishment cost us a shot at a BCS championship (and opened the door for Alabama).

You're welcome.

Edited to add that I think that Alabama would crush the Buckeyes this year - but we would still be in the game without the NCAA sanctions.