*sigh* I'm having a fun day on the web. I went to Maccentral today to compare the size of one of their "summaries" to an original article, and left a comment on my findings on their posted forums... It was deleted. So did it again and it stood this time, reworded. Then, I brought over my only other board comment from like a week ago (similar situation, just comparing the summary- I don't go to Maccentral anymore) and it stayed, someone bashed it, and I wrote a reply to them-- which then got deleted. So i reposted (no word yet if it's been pulled).<br><br>I just really appreciate MacMinute more and more. They explain but don't over summarize, and encourage, nay- urge, people to check out their links. That preserves their integrity as a news reporting site, but allows the publisher of the referenced work to get the credit, ad hits (where applicable) and source look they deserve.<br><br>EDITED: Yep, they deleted that one... (the whole thing is going on at: this link but its probably not worth giving them the hit to look at the empty hole where my posts used to be).<br><br>EDIT AGAIN: Deleted again. *sigh* Well, point proven at least. It's almost fun to play pong with them and keep their censorship soldiers on their toes.<br><br>EDIT YET AGAIN: And again its all taken down, this time even another post i made in response to their Jim Heid post has been yanked. So, all have been taken down save the two up (one baltantly talks about them deleting, I'm surprised that hasn't been yanked when others have for less)... Anyhoo..I'm done playing pong now. But It's a shame...<br>---<br>www.skewedperspective.com<br>www.themacmind.com<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by deanb on 08/09/01 12:37 PM (server time).</EM></FONT></P>

And now they have outright banned me from posting.<br>No language, insults, inappropriate behavior or anything... just pointing out that their summaries hurt ads on other sites...and then subsequent pointing out that they were deleting posts...<br><br>---<br>www.skewedperspective.com<br>www.applelust.com<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by deanb on 08/09/01 03:21 PM (server time).</EM></FONT></P>

No prob... I've had it in a text file squirreled away<br><br>THE FOLLOWING IS THE FULL SEQUENCE OF POSTS:<br><br>Funny, so you assume we would want to read your opinion?<br><br>If you cared about the story, then you would read it....and not the summary. If you care about Maccentral's opnion on the story, well then that's a different ball of wax.<br><br>I think that ad sales are slumping enough that publishers of articles are concerned about this kind of reporting. When the writers get let go from those papers due to low ad revenue and there's no stories to link to anymore, what happens? It's not a non issue I'm afraid.<br><br>And my original, yanked-by Maccentral post did include that I just came here to compare this "summary" to the original. I left Maccentral's readership a long time ago, in fact to their founder's new site, Macminute.com....(now they'll probably yank this)<br><br><br><br>POST DELETED: REPRINTED AGAIN (thank god for "back buttons")<br><br>Funny, so you assume we would want to read your opinion?<br><br>If you cared about the story, then you would read it....and not the summary. If you care about Maccentral's opnion on the story, well then that's a different ball of wax.<br><br>I think that ad sales are slumping enough that publishers of articles are concerned about this kind of reporting. When the writers get let go from those papers due to low ad revenue and there's no stories to link to anymore, what happens? It's not a non issue I'm afraid.<br><br>And my original, yanked-by Maccentral post did include that I just came here to compare this "summary" to the original. I left Maccentral's readership a long time ago, in fact to their founder's new site, xxxxxxxxx.com....(now they'll probably yank this)<br>-AND THEY DID.... PRESUMABLY BECAUSE I MENTIONED THE STAN FLACK NEW SITE... WE'LL SEE IF THIS FLIES NOW...<br><br><br>Well this has been fun. Maccentral has deleted my response twice now. Thanks alot. That's unbiased promotion of dialogue in a forum if I've ever seen it.<br><br>Below is my post, with what I think they deleted it for taken out with "xxxx" (we'll see again, eh?)<br>-------------------<br>POST DELETED: REPRINTED AGAIN (thank god for "back buttons")<br><br>Funny, so you assume we would want to read your opinion?<br><br>If you cared about the story, then you would read it....and not the summary. If you care about Maccentral's opnion on the story, well then that's a different ball of wax.<br><br>I think that ad sales are slumping enough that publishers of articles are concerned about this kind of reporting. When the writers get let go from those papers due to low ad revenue and there's no stories to link to anymore, what happens? It's not a non issue I'm afraid.<br><br>And my original, yanked-by Maccentral post did include that I just came here to compare this "summary" to the original. I left Maccentral's readership a long time ago, XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX new site, xxxxxxxxx.com....(now they'll probably yank this)<br>-AND THEY DID.... PRESUMABLY BECAUSE I MENTIONED THE XXXX XXXXX NEW SITE... WE'LL SEE IF THIS FLIES NOW...<br>----<br>I have tried to respond to this 3 times, with Maccentral deleting me every time.<br><br>My point has been proven.<br><br>Let's see if they let this one stand.<br><br>---(to Jim Heid's post)<br>And I know (or hope) the Maccentral peeps appreciate your clarifying, I just hope other authors know to come here and do the same.<br><br>But, I won't be shocked if your post is deleted as we've seen them scrap most that point to other sites or even barely suggest they are wrong...(and that's just today)<br>------<br><br>the fun game of pong between the maccentral censorship soldiers and anyone bothering to point out flaws/deletion is hilarious...anyone tuning in and seeing the shape of the posts change with each refresh has got to get a laugh...<br><br>One post responding to the "sad" comment was deleted by MC and re-posted by the poster 4 times...and it's gone again....<br><br>---well, they banned from the forum.<br>this email was sent to them from browellaway@hotmail.com<br>Dear sir or madame,<br><br> Why was my I.P. banned from your forums? As we have copies of all my posts I urge you to point out where any inappropriate comments, language, or behavior occured.<br><br><br>Dean Browell<br>-------<br><br>---<br>www.skewedperspective.com<br>www.applelust.com

When you are afraid of competition you do things that harm you instead of helping you. We, at MacNETv2 love MacMinute so we don't delete any messages that refer to them, in fact we help promote them...and our forums are kinda cool too.<br><br>MacCentral must be losing money ;-)<br><br>john Manzione<br>Publisher<br>MacNETv2<br>http://www.macnet2.com<br><br>

Ad sales are slumping? Really? Gee... I took a year off trying to get advertisers for our site. No reason, just busy and did not have the time. Then I hired a new Ad salesman, and gee, three new sponsors in two days. (we do monthly fee, rather than per-click.) One took three months, another six months, and the last one month. All paid in advance. All, so far after two weeks, VERY happy with us.<br><br>Ad sales down? Not in my part of the woods. All you have to do is offer good content. (Thank goodness I have better writers than myself to help out there! Otherwise I would drown!)<br><br>Tim<br><br>Tim Robertson, publisher <br>My Mac Magazine<br><br>http://www.mymac.com<br>publisher@mymac.com<br>

Tim,<br><br>ad sales are slumping across the entire advertising industry, but that's starting to end... It's not the little nimble advertisers that are holding back right now, it's the big, corporate minded, large paying guys that have been holding back mostly... so, I can see where from your perspective ad sales aren't slumping, but look at the whole industry... they've been slumping pretty hard for a while... and I'd have to guess that you're not charging too much, which means that all of the other sites in your niche have to drop rates to compete, which hurts them, while helping you....<br><br>that is life though... always some little guys that come steal something out from under the big sleeping giants: witness - Macromedia vs. Adobe <br><br>John<br><br>***<br>"Buzzards gotta eat, same as worms"<br> --Clint Eastwood in The Outlaw Josey Wales<br>

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"In the old days, you'd finish a day's work and announce, 'I'm done.' Nobody ever does that now. There's never enough time." -- Elliott Masie

Well I think some of the difficulty in ad sales is especially found in the perplexing situation some print publishers are in (and I'm speaking mainly of newspapers). They must now lasso in ads for an online audience and print audience, and their content is relatively sacred to the point of those recent lawsuits on online rights of print authors.<br><br>And that's more of what I was pointing to- Maccentral referencing in particular online newspaper stories, summarizing them and essentially depriving them of the hit. (In fact, it deprives anyone from buying the print version to for the story, which I think makes it an even more dangerous practice.) It isn't illegal, but it certainly violates the spirit of publisher's rights. Especially when these summaries get by lines (and even the feedback on the articles referenced is given on the "borrowing" site; so even works of remarked quality, or lack thereof, might not even receive any critique.)<br><br>---<br>www.skewedperspective.com<br>www.applelust.com

heh... that's why i don't read maccentral anymore dean.... hehe... their "news" is hardly news by the time they post it, though Dennis writes the best articles I've read, and even though I don't know him, I feel like I know him...<br><br>I really like O'Reilly for that same reason, I feel like I know all of the authors that I read regularly, cause they talk about things like I would talk to my neighbor about them...<br><br><br><br>***<br>"Buzzards gotta eat, same as worms"<br> --Clint Eastwood in The Outlaw Josey Wales<br>

_________________________
"In the old days, you'd finish a day's work and announce, 'I'm done.' Nobody ever does that now. There's never enough time." -- Elliott Masie

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