So I ran into a problem this morning with my NAS and I'm hoping someone can give me a hand. My NAS runs Win7-Pro x64 with 32GB of SSD in a RAID-1 mirror. When I got home yesterday from sea (imagine 212 days straight before a day off or going home from work...) I logged in to do my updates & maintenance and found that my SSD was almost full. I've already done the trick of throwing in a larger mechanical for the \Users directory & such, so all that's on my C:\ is Windows and the Program Files. Windows is sitting at 18GB currently...!

I've run the disk cleanup, and cleared the Event logs, and emptied the trash, but it's somewhere in the Windows directory that has accumulated 12GB since I left in June. I remember there was a pie-graph program once that would show you how big each directory was as you zoomed in so you could figure out where all your space was, but that was (oh Gods, am I that old?) going on a decade ago.

So, tips for finding/removing the 12GB of junk my system has accumulated?!?? Help!

Is hibernation enabled? If so, hiberfil.sys is probably taking up a bunch of space. Ditto for your page file (pagefil.sys). The default location for those is in the root of C:\. The page file can be moved to another drive (say, the same place you've got the \Users directory), but that's not an option for hiberfil.sys; hibernation is either enabled (and the file is in the root of your C:\) or hibernation is disabled (and there's no file).

Is hibernation enabled? If so, hiberfil.sys is probably taking up a bunch of space. Ditto for your page file (pagefil.sys). The default location for those is in the root of C:\. The page file can be moved to another drive (say, the same place you've got the \Users directory), but that's not an option for hiberfil.sys; hibernation is either enabled (and the file is in the root of your C:\) or hibernation is disabled (and there's no file).

That's the lowest-hanging fruit, as far as mystery disk usage goes.

Nope, both of those were moved to the mechanical drive. I'll double check that it hasn't decided to create new ones while I was gone, but not expecting anything.

looks like 9GB in the C:\Windows\winxsx\ directory... why? Stupid hard links and no utility... Grrr...

That's where Windows keeps stuff related to compatibility and patches. I don't know the details, but I've been told by multiple Windows experts thatthe best way to shrink that directory is to do a complete reinstall.

Win7 on a 32GB SSD is just fine. As long as you (1) kill hibernate, (2) fix the pagefile to 2GB (needed for some games, otherwise nix it altogether), (3) kill system restores, and (4) manage your WINSXS directory.

Don't fuck with WinSxS short of the "dism /spsuperseded" command. It's for Windows Side by Side, NT6.x's solution to "DLL hell". It's normal to have 6-9 GB listed in there, although you'll have about 1-2 GB of real data.

What you can take out are:C:\Windows\SoftwareDistribution\Download (200-500 MB)c:\Windows\Tempc:\windows\minidump

Win7 on a 32GB SSD is just fine. As long as you (1) kill hibernate, (2) fix the pagefile to 2GB (needed for some games, otherwise nix it altogether), (3) kill system restores, and (4) manage your WINSXS directory.

I don't think so. I am quite frugal in what I install, I am not a gamer, and my install of W7 Pro x64 is over 32GB. My SSD is 64GB, which at the time I got my laptop was quite good, and it only works well because I don't install shit I won't use and yes, I've gone through the steps you mention in your post, except fucking around with the winsxs folder, at least not beyond the command referenced by H@t above (same one you posted in your link). A 32GB drive seems useless to me, a waste of money.

Win7 on a 32GB SSD is just fine. As long as you (1) kill hibernate, (2) fix the pagefile to 2GB (needed for some games, otherwise nix it altogether), (3) kill system restores, and (4) manage your WINSXS directory.

Yeah really, there should be a forum's software plugin that warns users about posting nonsense about the pagefile, defragging, partitioning, etc. We are way past fucking around with the pagefile I thought. But I guess not.

Win7 on a 32GB SSD is just fine. As long as you (1) kill hibernate, (2) fix the pagefile to 2GB (needed for some games, otherwise nix it altogether), (3) kill system restores, and (4) manage your WINSXS directory.

Still, SSDs are getting cheaper and cheaper all the time, so if you can buy more space, do it and stop worrying about space needs.

Regarding paging, there are threads allthefuckovertheplace that talk about SSDs and pagefile size. I unfortunately didn't bookmark any back when I built this PC so... looks like I have some research to do and another thread to start.

Win7 on a 32GB SSD is just fine. As long as you (1) kill hibernate, (2) fix the pagefile to 2GB (needed for some games, otherwise nix it altogether), (3) kill system restores, and (4) manage your WINSXS directory.

Still, SSDs are getting cheaper and cheaper all the time, so if you can buy more space, do it and stop worrying about space needs.

Regarding paging, there are threads allthefuckovertheplace that talk about SSDs and pagefile size. I unfortunately didn't bookmark any back when I built this PC so... looks like I have some research to do and another thread to start.

Oh yeah, it fits. Until you start with SPs and software you actually need and use, and the winxsx folder that is touchy, and the fact that Windows works better with 20% free space at least, so no, 30GB is close to useless to run a system like W7 in this day and age. Tweaking is dead in terms of "saving space" or "saving memory". The best tweak there is lies in HW upgrade. A 128GB SSD is not expensive, so I insist, to install Windows 7 on a 30GB drive is silly.

Most modern SSDs also perform substantially better with at least 25% free space. Anandtech recently had an article where they compared 3-4 popular controllers and tested their performance at various levels of free space. I was surprised at just how much extra free space helps SSD performance.

Buying an SSD with only 32GB is stupid. Anything less than 256GB is stupid, honestly. 12GB is not a lot of data, these days.

It feels weird but I agree with Molo. A 32GB drive is a waste of money on anything but a cache drive. Even then it's iffy.

OK, at the time I built it, 32GB SSD's were $50 and I needed 2 for the mirror (call me paranoid, but the more fail-over I can get the better, since I'm at sea so much). It's a NAS, Tyversity/DLNA server, and part-time DVD ripper.

The pagefile and \Users directory are located on a mechanical drive, so no space eating there and enough to keep it happy.

I have to fight it to get the damn thing to work with the PS3 and the WD Lives, so the idea of buying larger hard drives and doing a FFR just really irks me. 32GB should have been plenty for something that doesn't DO all that much.

I'm tempted to make the WINSXS directory to the mechanical drive and just mount the drive as an NTFS folder. If it's got 160GB to eat up, I won't be as worried.

I think I'll look into that, although it does make me wonder why MS hasn't fixed this issue... grr...

Yup, did all that when I set up the machine last year. When I left in June the system had about 18GB of free space on C:\, now Windows is 18GB on its own. This just seems excessive when the fix for a hard drive memory leak is to buy a larger HDD? That's like saying if a program has a memory leak and eats up all your RAM, the fix is to just buy more RAM.

How, and in what world, is that an acceptable answer?

So, from a technical end, is there any reason that mounting the \winsxs directory on the mechanical drive wouldn't work if it's the drive mounted as an NTFS folder?

Honestly, if it comes down to no other option, I'll FFR the system before I just buy 2 larger SSD's and have to FFR anyways.

It is an acceptable answer because you screwed up in the first place by buying 2 rather minute SSDs. Had you got at the very least 2 64GB SSDs you wouldn't be having this issue. Windows is not to blame here, you are.

It is an acceptable answer because you screwed up in the first place by buying 2 rather minute SSDs. Had you got at the very least 2 64GB SSDs you wouldn't be having this issue. Windows is not to blame here, you are.

Exactly.

Like I said, 12GB is *nothing*. If you are trying to squeeze an extra 12GB out of drive, it means you need a bigger drive.

With the winsxs directory constantly growing, even if I had purchased 64GB drives (which were about $120-$150 at the time), it would just mean all my space would be filled in a year instead of 6 months from what I'm reading.

When I specced out this system here on Ars, I was told repeatedly that 32GB was going to be plenty for a NAS box, and that spending the extra money on 64GB or larger SSD's was just a waste. Moving the \Users directory, the page file, and turning off the hibernation would solve all my lack-of-space worries. That's what I was told.

So, my argument still stands. If I screwed up by buying 32GB drives for a 10GB install, it was recommended by Ars. When an install is only slated to use <30% of a drive's capacity, that doesn't seem to be under-specced to me. What I see is that the OS has a memory hole and I'm being told that since there is no way to FIX the memory hole, my "proper course of action" is to just give it more memory to leak into and let it just eat up space. When it's eaten up a pair of 120GB drives, go buy 256's, and when it eats those up, buy 512's.

Do you just want to complain? Or do you wan to fix this so your computer works? Which is it?

winsxs is not a folder as you think of them. Right clicking on it and enumerating the files will not give you the accurate size of that folder. That folder contains your OS. That's where it IS. You can't mess with it. There's a reason it grows bigger. Long story short: it makes the system more stable and more reliable in the long run. Fuck. Must I explain this on my own? Just read the damn link or do your own research.

Or buy a bigger HD. If you can afford a computer and an internet connection and time to post on Ars, you can also afford a bigger HD.

dism /online /cleanup-image /spsuperseded /hidespThat might buy you back some space, unless the Disk Cleanup Utility already purged SP1 backup files, in which case it will finish very quickly and make no changes.

^^ That will clean up maybe 1 GB of pre-SP1 binaries. (Speaking from experience.) Makes SP1 permanent; can't uninstall it. Disk Cleanup Utility does not touch that. No way to do it other than the cmd. (And a good thing, too.)

^^ That will clean up maybe 1 GB of pre-SP1 binaries. (Speaking from experience.) Makes SP1 permanent; can't uninstall it. Disk Cleanup Utility does not touch that. No way to do it other than the cmd. (And a good thing, too.)

Disk Cleanup Utility has an option labeled "Service Pack Backup Files" but I am not sure how much SP1 related cleanup it will do.

My Win7 folder is 30G now...9G in the "Installer" folder which I know you're not supposed to mess with.

With the winsxs directory constantly growing, even if I had purchased 64GB drives (which were about $120-$150 at the time), it would just mean all my space would be filled in a year instead of 6 months from what I'm reading.

Wrong. In 6 months, your WINXSX directory grew by 9GB. In 12 months, assuming linear growth (expected growth is sublinear), it would only grow to 18GB. To get a 64GB SSD to this same point would take a total of 6*(32+9)/9 months, or just over 2 years, and that's still assuming linear growth. In the real world, it would probably be in excess of 3 years.

The problem isn't time. It's the number of patches that Microsoft puts out.

alex182 wrote:

When I specced out this system here on Ars, I was told repeatedly that 32GB was going to be plenty for a NAS box, and that spending the extra money on 64GB or larger SSD's was just a waste. Moving the \Users directory, the page file, and turning off the hibernation would solve all my lack-of-space worries. That's what I was told.

Link please.

alex182 wrote:

What I see is that the OS has a memory hole and I'm being told that since there is no way to FIX the memory hole, my "proper course of action" is to just give it more memory to leak into and let it just eat up space. When it's eaten up a pair of 120GB drives, go buy 256's, and when it eats those up, buy 512's.

Have I got that about right?

Everything except the cause, which you won't understand until you read the TechNet article referenced by Dilbert above.

I see threealternatives:

Get more storage for your "C:" drive.

Do a full reinstall of Windows every 6-9 months.

Do a Linux install, set up Samba (for the file shares) and keep it patched.

alex182 wrote:

I think I'll look into that, although it does make me wonder why MS hasn't fixed this issue... grr...

Because it's not a bug. It's a feature. Again, read the link Dilbert provided.

alex182 wrote:

So, from a technical end, is there any reason that mounting the \winsxs directory on the mechanical drive wouldn't work if it's the drive mounted as an NTFS folder?

^^ That will clean up maybe 1 GB of pre-SP1 binaries. (Speaking from experience.) Makes SP1 permanent; can't uninstall it. Disk Cleanup Utility does not touch that. No way to do it other than the cmd. (And a good thing, too.)

^^ That will clean up maybe 1 GB of pre-SP1 binaries. (Speaking from experience.) Makes SP1 permanent; can't uninstall it. Disk Cleanup Utility does not touch that. No way to do it other than the cmd. (And a good thing, too.)

Same command on my drive cleaned 5GB.

I wish I could remember how much it stripped from mine, I just remember it was well over 1GB. This install is from when W7 was released on TechNet and has been imaged to the SSD it currently lives on.

Yes Dilbert, I've been reading the article you linked to. I'm not a software guy so it's taking a few re-reads to wrap my brain around it.

As for the hard drive space needed, there was a line in the article that kinda raises my hackles:

Quote:

So yes, the WinSXS folder is very large, and it will continue to grow as the OS ages.

So even the brand new 120GB SSD I installed right before I shipped out last is going to fill up with fake krap because of this "Feature". If it was temporary files, I would expect to be able to clean them eventually. What I gather though is that the OS is making hard links to files, which (to my non-programmer-mind) is like making copies of the files, but only writing the data into the MFT. The OS Thinks there are 2 or 3 or 4 copies of the file, but in reality it doesn't take up any sectors.

In my mind, this means that because of this, there will always be unusable space on the drive, a significant and ever expanding amount of unusable space.

Quote:

Now that you know why the store can grow to be so large, your next question is probably to ask why we don’t remove the older versions of the components. The short answer to that is reliability. The component store, along with other information on the system, allows us to determine at any given time what the best version of a component to project is.

This is just like iOS keeping every single version of an app I've installed when it only needs the most recent one. Really, this seems like a huge waste of space. I totally understand keeping a version or two, but when the OS feels like it needs to keep versions 1.01, 1.02, 1.03, 1.04, 1.08, 1.1.2, etc, etc up to the current version 9.7.3..... really? What's wrong with just keeping 2 versions, or even better yet, getting rid of the packages that are already included in service packs. Sheesh!!!

Yes, I'm upset, my windows install more than doubled in the 7 months I was at sea, and it's not even really being used, it's the OS lying to itself. I'm upset that if the NAS crashes while I'm at sea because the OS decided to lie to itself and fill up the entire hard drive with nothing, that's not a "Feature" in my book.

Oh, and Accs: I'm not seeing anywhere in the article why mounting a mechanical drive as \windows\winsxs wouldn't work. Can you elaborate please? Oh ,and...

What's wrong with just keeping 2 versions, or even better yet, getting rid of the packages that are already included in service packs.

Your app demands version 9.4.2230 of msvc8rt.dll and will not run without this version (it's a shitty app). You have version 9.6.7822. Your app fails on Windows 2000 and XP. It works perfectly on Windows 7.

Quote:

Sheesh!!! Yes, I'm upset, my windows install more than doubled in the 7 months I was at sea, and it's not even really being used, it's the OS lying to itself. I'm upset that if the NAS crashes while I'm at sea because the OS decided to lie to itself and fill up the entire hard drive with nothing, that's not a "Feature" in my book.

So you're worried that space that isn't really being used and is available for other data is going to fill up your drive. How does this work? How does your NAS get filled up by free space? This is bass-ackwards.