I spent an afternoon crunching the numbers, and it became apparent that anything under 3bbl would most likely end up being a money pit, even with optimistic estimates.

Brewing is an industry. Economies of scale make a big difference very quickly.

The guy who posted that does mention that it can be useful as a "proof of concept" thing to get the brewery up and running, but any business plan involving nanobrewing should either have outside capital planned into it, or not plan on being able to pay yourself for you time.

Man, that guy hit the nail on the head. I could have wrote that. FTR I have been suggesting teh "proof of concept" thing on small systems from the beginning. On anything smaller than a 7-10 bbl system that is all you will be doing. If that is what a brewer is trying to do I say go for it. But just understand the amount of free labor it takes to float such an endeavor.

I'm actually considering setting up a .5-1.5 bbl pilot system. Economically, I can't justify doing that instead of just putting the money into the full-size system, but it would be fun to have around for pilot batches and one-off beers down the road.

Realistically, I think my 10 gal home system will be our "pilot system".

I know it's apples-to-oranges, but I asked about production volume over on winepress.us (a site for amateur and small wineries), and I thought the response was interesting:

"My advice is to start small and let sales drive your future volume increases. Running out of wine and putting up a sign that says sold out is far better that putting up a sign that says "selling our wine cheap because it's not very good and we overproduced and can't sell it". Of course you're sign won't say that but this is modern America and customers are very perceptive. When a winery is constantly running promotions and sales there is a subtle message of desperation sent that devalues the brand. When you put up the sign that says sold out the underlying message is "this stuff is damn good and you should have gotten off your butt and bought some when it was available and next time you see it available you'd better buy a case before it's sold out again."

Who knows? Maybe if you're really marketing saavy you can turn ultra-low production into a selling point, and command a high price for you beer.

I'm actually considering setting up a .5-1.5 bbl pilot system. Economically, I can't justify doing that instead of just putting the money into the full-size system, but it would be fun to have around for pilot batches and one-off beers down the road.

Realistically, I think my 10 gal home system will be our "pilot system".

One of the local places does this. They often feature beers brewed under the supervision of the brewers that are on tap one night a week.

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Jeff RankertAnn Arbor Brewers GuildAHA Governing Committee BJCP NationalHome-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

I was just being a smart aleck (drinking all day brings that out in me) - I agree with you 100% and that is the model we follow. In some restaurants we have the most expensive beer on tap. There is a feeling of prestige that goes along with paying a little more. Of course, you also have to have quality to back it up.

I know it's apples-to-oranges, but I asked about production volume over on winepress.us (a site for amateur and small wineries), and I thought the response was interesting:

"My advice is to start small and let sales drive your future volume increases. Running out of wine and putting up a sign that says sold out is far better that putting up a sign that says "selling our wine cheap because it's not very good and we overproduced and can't sell it". Of course you're sign won't say that but this is modern America and customers are very perceptive. When a winery is constantly running promotions and sales there is a subtle message of desperation sent that devalues the brand. When you put up the sign that says sold out the underlying message is "this stuff is damn good and you should have gotten off your butt and bought some when it was available and next time you see it available you'd better buy a case before it's sold out again."

Who knows? Maybe if you're really marketing saavy you can turn ultra-low production into a selling point, and command a high price for you beer.

I think that is easier for a winery which has a seasonal/annual product. Customers know that you can't just 'buy more grain' and the culture is more geared towards customers buying for storage (even if it is just short term).

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Delmarva United Homebrewers - President by inverse coup - former president ousted himself.AHA Member since 2006BJCP Certified: B0958

I know it's apples-to-oranges, but I asked about production volume over on winepress.us (a site for amateur and small wineries), and I thought the response was interesting:

"My advice is to start small and let sales drive your future volume increases. Running out of wine and putting up a sign that says sold out is far better that putting up a sign that says "selling our wine cheap because it's not very good and we overproduced and can't sell it". Of course you're sign won't say that but this is modern America and customers are very perceptive. When a winery is constantly running promotions and sales there is a subtle message of desperation sent that devalues the brand. When you put up the sign that says sold out the underlying message is "this stuff is damn good and you should have gotten off your butt and bought some when it was available and next time you see it available you'd better buy a case before it's sold out again."

Who knows? Maybe if you're really marketing saavy you can turn ultra-low production into a selling point, and command a high price for you beer.

I think that is easier for a winery which has a seasonal/annual product. Customers know that you can't just 'buy more grain' and the culture is more geared towards customers buying for storage (even if it is just short term).

This is where that all important 'Estate' label would come into the equation. If you are growing your own grain and hops it becomes a seasonal product as once your crop is gone it's gone.