Inside the Phillies with MLB.com beat writer Todd Zolecki

Can These Guys Play?

Here is what MLB.com’s Jonathan Mayo wrote today on the prospects the Phillies got in the Shane Victorino and Hunter Pence deals:

HUNTER PENCE

Tommy Joseph, C: The 2012 Futures Gamer was ranked No. 5 on the Giants’ Top 20 at the time of the trade. Drafted in 2009 out of the Arizona high school ranks, his calling card was his bat, with many feeling he wouldn’t be able to stay behind the plate long-term. The bat was on display in 2011 as he broke out as a power-hitting run producer. He hasn’t been as dangerous with the move to Double-A, but he still has solid hitting skills, especially if he can continue to improve his plate discipline. His defensive game has improved tremendously – a strong arm in particular helps control the running game – and questions about him staying behind the plate have ended. He could be ready to take over when Carlos Ruiz’s contract is up after the 2013 season.

Seth Rosin, RHP: Rosin was the No. 19 prospect on the Giants’ Top 20 at the time of the trade Taken out of the University of Minnesota in 2010, he began his first full season as a starter, but then moved to the bullpen and that’s his long-term home. Out of the pen, his fastball hits the mid-to-upper 90s in shorter stints and he commands it well. He has a very good changeup to go along with it. His breaking ball isn’t as good, but he can thrive with two pitches in short relief.

SHANE VICTORINO

Ethan Martin, RHP: Martin was the No. 7 prospect on the Dodgers’ Top 20 at the time of the trade. A 2008 first-round pick, Martin has been a little slow to develop, but patience can be a virtue when it comes to high-ceiling young arms with arm strength. Martin still has the raw stuff that made him a hot commodity coming out of the Georgia high school ranks four years ago. He has a plus fastball and curve and his changeup is continuing to improve. In his second taste of Double-A, it does appear like things are starting to come together for the right-hander. His command has improved, though he still needs to refine that to be a starter at the highest level. His power stuff would play well coming out of the bullpen, but at age 23, it might be too early to give up on him as a starter, especially given his improvement this season.

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18 Comments

how about a breakdown of 3 players we lost for the one year rental of hunter pence ? Jonathon Singleton, Jared Cosart & Domingo Santana ? how do they compare to what we got back? Amaro keeps getting SMOKED in these deals. he is clearly overmatched as a GM. we need a professional GM, not Pat Gillick’s office boy.

Judging from the length of time it took to make these trades, I’d guess that the rest of the league didn’t have as high an opinion of the players Rube was trying to deal as he did. He clearly thought he was sitting on a pile of gold. It was a pile all right …
Meanwhile, they did nothing to address the problems – particularly because there were no options. All they were left to do was dump salary. They gave up two Major Leaguers for a pile of …

I can’t believe I am asking this but what does the length of time to complete these trades have to do with anything except brinkmanship at the trading deadline? Besides Ruin learned his lesson from holding onto Werth too long. Obviously he decided he wasn’t going to make the same mistake with Pence. Ahhh yes lessons learned but misapplied in the true Ruin Tomorrow, Jr. fashion.

Taking a look at baseball-reference, I see that Cosart has been sucking it up at AA with a 3.52 ERA and 1.39 WHIP in 15 starts (87 inn). Yes, he walks everyone. Thats good for a 3.9 BB/9 ratio despite the 7.0 k/9. He just got moved up to AAA, for some reason.

Singleton has also been in AA this year batting .284 with 14 HR and an OPS of .891. He appears to have excellent plate discipline and some decent power. My prediction – Singleton becomes an above-average OF (he has 7 errors already at 1B this year) similar to Pence and Cosart becomes an average relief pitcher. Both won’t be seen until 2014 (Sept 2013 at the earliest)

That is a great headline, how about ‘Who are these guys?’ – These trades were no more than ownership telling Amaro to trim the payroll, and trim it now. These two Phillies were two of the players that were doing good this year. Amaro has again astounded us with a weird move. How about the bullpen? And did we get any better because of these moves?

Are you slow? Did you watch the Phillies this year? Pence plays a piss poor RF and is infuriating when at the plate! He is one of the worst situational hitters I’ve ever seen. Doesn’t seem to have a brain for the game! And Victorino is batting just north of 250 for the year with a shit obp. So explain to me how we lost two players that were doing so well?

None of the prospects Ruin has traded have set the baseball world on fire for sure. But none of the players Ruin has obtained have led the Phillies back to the promised land either. We can revisit this inquiry at such time as either the Phillies win a WS under Ruin or some one he has traded becomes a star. At this point, I find no basis for comparison.

I said “traded for” not traded. Either way, whether the Phils have got or given prospects, they’ve not amounted to much. I suspect that teams are only willing to part with guys that they feel are fringe prospects, not ones with high hopes.

Well muleman, the players that the Phillies recieved for Lee are all still in the system. Aumont was a first round pick and is in AAA trying to find his control. He’s still young and has potential to be a solid back end RP. I don’t doubt that he will be a September callup. Ramirez was just promoted to AAA and will have a shot to make the team in the spring. Gillies appears to be a bit of a knucklehead, besides the fact that he gets hurt a lot, but he has serious skills and can be a starting CFer in MLB if he can stay healthy. Prospects, still, but very good ones.

these moves weren’t about getting better this year, but rather getting better next year. If RAJ signs Bourn, or a quality 3B off season, then these moves were good. If he enters next year with an OF of Brown, Mayberry and the guy we got from SF, and some unknown second rate 3B then this was a bad move. Remember, the difference between being over the Tax this year as well as next year is 17% of excess. That’s the salary of a good md inning relief pitcher

I ask this….the last couple years Victorino was a top 5 CF, so why would you have traded him then?…and if so for who? Pence was only with us for two half seasons and is what he is, a complementary player that enhances a good team, which we were not this year. He is not a star to build around. What do you think you were going to get in return for these guys….MLB ready players or prospects?

Unless we trade one of the big three starting pitchers we will be rebuilding/retooling through free agency, not trades so the return we got really is meaningless.

No, what really brings you over here is “Weinus Envy”. You should have listened to your Mother when she told you to leave it alone and it would grow. It is not the only thing your Mother lied about by the way.

I don’t care who they got in the trades. Nobody here knows if those players will develop or not, so to trash the deals is stupid. Prospects are prospects. For all you know they will win MVP’s and Cy Youngs. Or not.

They made the deals so that they can stay under the tax threshold this year because they know they are going over it next year. Money will not be an issue next season, but it would have been had they been taxed at a 30% rate for being over two years in a row.

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