Upgrading a vented tongue and groove cathedral ceiling - Home Energy Pros2016-12-10T03:34:47Zhttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/forum/topics/upgrading-a-vented-tongue-and-groove-cathedral-ceiling?groupUrl=bestpracticesresidential&commentId=6069565%3AComment%3A149266&xg_source=activity&groupId=6069565%3AGroup%3A2238&feed=yes&xn_auth=noFunny! Most people ask me how…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2014-11-13:6069565:Comment:1697762014-11-13T17:48:08.641ZMatthew Damonhttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/MatthewDamon
<p>Funny! Most people ask me how Ben Affleck is but you're a little more creative and topical.</p>
<p>Funny! Most people ask me how Ben Affleck is but you're a little more creative and topical.</p> Very cool! Nice going!!!
tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2014-11-13:6069565:Comment:1698702014-11-13T17:22:43.273Ztedkiddhttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/tedkidd
<p>Very cool! Nice going!!!</p>
<p></p>
<p>Very cool! Nice going!!!</p>
<p></p> Hi Matt, thanks for the follo…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2014-11-13:6069565:Comment:1700022014-11-13T01:32:58.885ZBud Pollhttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/EverettPoll
<p>Hi Matt, thanks for the follow up. It sure looks like it was a good project and great that they were able to do so much. Many home owners are forced to do a little now and a little later but that would not have made these improvements tough. Also read the Case Study, nice.</p>
<p>Bud</p>
<p>Hi Matt, thanks for the follow up. It sure looks like it was a good project and great that they were able to do so much. Many home owners are forced to do a little now and a little later but that would not have made these improvements tough. Also read the Case Study, nice.</p>
<p>Bud</p> tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2014-11-12:6069565:Comment:1696002014-11-12T18:16:04.640ZMatthew Damonhttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/MatthewDamon
<p><a target="_self" href="http://api.ning.com:80/files/oJSI3sXfh3UdukySQBV2jbPsbmdyP9ravm*Xmdaylw6J458647RByIW98uHgtOT8RcVimaZ9*W*8xJ*x8PQrX6QTRTI56Crx/IMG_3435.JPG"><img class="align-full" src="http://api.ning.com:80/files/oJSI3sXfh3UdukySQBV2jbPsbmdyP9ravm*Xmdaylw6J458647RByIW98uHgtOT8RcVimaZ9*W*8xJ*x8PQrX6QTRTI56Crx/IMG_3435.JPG?width=721" width="721"/></a></p>
<p><a target="_self" href="http://api.ning.com:80/files/oJSI3sXfh3UdukySQBV2jbPsbmdyP9ravm*Xmdaylw6J458647RByIW98uHgtOT8RcVimaZ9*W*8xJ*x8PQrX6QTRTI56Crx/IMG_3435.JPG"><img class="align-full" src="http://api.ning.com:80/files/oJSI3sXfh3UdukySQBV2jbPsbmdyP9ravm*Xmdaylw6J458647RByIW98uHgtOT8RcVimaZ9*W*8xJ*x8PQrX6QTRTI56Crx/IMG_3435.JPG?width=721" width="721"/></a></p> Thanks for all the comments.…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2014-11-12:6069565:Comment:1695972014-11-12T18:14:56.899ZMatthew Damonhttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/MatthewDamon
<p>Thanks for all the comments. The customer did decide to move forward with the project and it went well. We carefully removed strips of the T&amp;G at the eaves, in the middle of the ceiling, at the recessed lights, and near the ridge. We used ice and water shield to seal all the seams and then covered that with a thin layer of 2 part foam. In retrospect I would have used something like Siga tape but our method was effective. We blocked the soffit and ridge vents and then dense packed the…</p>
<p>Thanks for all the comments. The customer did decide to move forward with the project and it went well. We carefully removed strips of the T&amp;G at the eaves, in the middle of the ceiling, at the recessed lights, and near the ridge. We used ice and water shield to seal all the seams and then covered that with a thin layer of 2 part foam. In retrospect I would have used something like Siga tape but our method was effective. We blocked the soffit and ridge vents and then dense packed the cavities. The recessed lights were capped with Tenmats and air sealed. We ended up reducing air leakage in the home by a little over 70% which everyone was happy with. This project was featured as a case study by the Natural Resources Council of Maine both because the results were impressive (and the customers are extremely happy) but also because they financed it using an Efficiency Maine loan and also qualified for some rebates. </p>
<p>Certainly, not all folks can finance a $25,000 loan but I feel like we could bring the price point down using Siga tape and refining our methods. Their T&amp;G was pristine so it could be easier and cheaper in another home. All in all, the project went smoothly, the customers are happy, and we truly made a difference in how the home feels and performs.</p>
<p>Here is the link to the case study <a href="http://www.nrcm.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/10-PenobscotHomePerformanceCaseStudy_NRCM_final.pdf" target="_blank">CASE STUDY</a></p>
<p>Below are a few photos of the beginning stages of the project.</p>
<p><a target="_self" href="http://api.ning.com:80/files/oJSI3sXfh3UayhKvKZ3Ao7mSzvCVPr0k3zL3xvPiGfmrFSpau6B*3rR1GXihGo6w5l2GNz8PiKEErdTyetP7Iyl2kV4w2Ywl/IMG_3417.JPG"></a></p>
<p><a target="_self" href="http://api.ning.com:80/files/oJSI3sXfh3UayhKvKZ3Ao7mSzvCVPr0k3zL3xvPiGfmrFSpau6B*3rR1GXihGo6w5l2GNz8PiKEErdTyetP7Iyl2kV4w2Ywl/IMG_3417.JPG"><img class="align-full" src="http://api.ning.com:80/files/oJSI3sXfh3UayhKvKZ3Ao7mSzvCVPr0k3zL3xvPiGfmrFSpau6B*3rR1GXihGo6w5l2GNz8PiKEErdTyetP7Iyl2kV4w2Ywl/IMG_3417.JPG?width=721" width="721"/></a></p> The Op hasn't replied since h…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2014-11-12:6069565:Comment:1699062014-11-12T17:28:01.536ZBud Pollhttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/EverettPoll
<p>The Op hasn't replied since his initial post so no idea as to where this stands. But as posted, sheetrock was an option, but involved removing and reinstalling a very nice T&amp;G ceiling. That's no easy task.</p>
<p>But converting to a code compliant hot roof is also no easy task. Improvements have to last longer than most of us will be around so science tends to error on the cautious side. Dense packing an existing ceiling to the quality level necessary to ensure no moisture problems…</p>
<p>The Op hasn't replied since his initial post so no idea as to where this stands. But as posted, sheetrock was an option, but involved removing and reinstalling a very nice T&amp;G ceiling. That's no easy task.</p>
<p>But converting to a code compliant hot roof is also no easy task. Improvements have to last longer than most of us will be around so science tends to error on the cautious side. Dense packing an existing ceiling to the quality level necessary to ensure no moisture problems in the future would be a challenge. The jobs I have seen where they tried to compress the fg with dense pack were far below the quality required.</p>
<p>One way or another this will end up being a major project if it is to be done correctly.</p>
<p>Bud</p>
<p></p> My thought is if the cold she…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2014-11-12:6069565:Comment:1699022014-11-12T02:36:54.032ZChad Mcaulifehttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/ChadMcaulife
<p>My thought is if the cold sheathing hasn't been a problem with the t&amp;g and fiber why would it become one with sheetrock and dense packed cell, or even just adding dense packed cell. We dense pack slopes on capes all the time and have yet to see an issue. We make a real effort to control interior moisture as well.</p>
<p>My thought is if the cold sheathing hasn't been a problem with the t&amp;g and fiber why would it become one with sheetrock and dense packed cell, or even just adding dense packed cell. We dense pack slopes on capes all the time and have yet to see an issue. We make a real effort to control interior moisture as well.</p> Hi Thomas, Ignoring the code…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2014-07-18:6069565:Comment:1624162014-07-18T14:31:03.742ZBud Pollhttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/EverettPoll
<p>Hi Thomas, Ignoring the code for the moment we still need to follow best practices, like being sure the cold surface of that impermeable layer remains above the dew point. Since local code officials have the final word, there is the place to start. Once you know the total r-value required, then you can determine how much of that must be the outside impermeable insulation.</p>
<p>The unfortunate aspect here is air sealing is very important, but those beautiful T&amp;G ceilings make that…</p>
<p>Hi Thomas, Ignoring the code for the moment we still need to follow best practices, like being sure the cold surface of that impermeable layer remains above the dew point. Since local code officials have the final word, there is the place to start. Once you know the total r-value required, then you can determine how much of that must be the outside impermeable insulation.</p>
<p>The unfortunate aspect here is air sealing is very important, but those beautiful T&amp;G ceilings make that near impossible.</p>
<p>Bud</p>
<p></p> Hi Matt,
The code in Maine d…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2014-07-18:6069565:Comment:1624122014-07-18T13:06:35.705ZThomas Varneyhttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/ThomasVarney
<p> Hi Matt,</p>
<p>The code in Maine does require a minimum of R20 impermeable insulation but it is important to note that this is based on a total insulation value of R49. If you can't get a total of R49 into the rafter space this R20 value isn't relevant.</p>
<p> Hi Matt,</p>
<p>The code in Maine does require a minimum of R20 impermeable insulation but it is important to note that this is based on a total insulation value of R49. If you can't get a total of R49 into the rafter space this R20 value isn't relevant.</p> Hi Matt,
If you checked out…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2014-02-16:6069565:Comment:1492662014-02-16T20:37:38.954ZBryan Pringlehttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/BryanPringle
<p>Hi Matt,</p>
<p></p>
<p>If you checked out Bud's link I'm sure you saw all of the ideas folks have on this. Definitely no clear cut answers. I would vote for the least intrusive method of opening the soffit, removing as much FGB you can and dense packing the rest to slow/stop air movement. Reassemble and seal vent. </p>
<p>For the lights, replace with sealed LED retrofits and caulk them in.</p>
<p></p>
<p>It's a tough situation no doubt. Good luck</p>
<p>Hi Matt,</p>
<p></p>
<p>If you checked out Bud's link I'm sure you saw all of the ideas folks have on this. Definitely no clear cut answers. I would vote for the least intrusive method of opening the soffit, removing as much FGB you can and dense packing the rest to slow/stop air movement. Reassemble and seal vent. </p>
<p>For the lights, replace with sealed LED retrofits and caulk them in.</p>
<p></p>
<p>It's a tough situation no doubt. Good luck</p>