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Well, from the above discussion the majority seems to be against Khorne, so I think we'll leave them out for another season. Personally, I don't think they are much of a threat at low TV, but as has been mentioned there's less experience of them at high TV and all the frenzy, mutations and wide skills access could lead to some interesting builds.

I'd feel particularly bad/unfair if someone ran them for 4-5 months in this league and then we banned them for being too powerful at 2000TV (!), so for that reason I'm being a little cautious, but I'd like a bit more data on them in 2000-ish TV battles first :-). We will, of course, reconsider them each season as we find out more about them, but they really are a bit 'young' as a team for now I think.

Feel free to disagree with this though :-), and if you can push the consensus the other way, I won't object to them joining us, but the feeling seems to be against Khorne right now from our most experienced coaches.

Hey, if I get to choose +stats, why not go with a +ST on a wardancer? With 160TV after the +AG, I suspect you would go for 8x Block on 2 Heralds, 4 Letters, 2 Pitfighters? Honestly, I'd rather go with a bit more Guard to work against Frenzy traps. No ST4 means that Frenzy can be quite dangerous when not supported.

Also, no M access on the team means that you won't have an easy time in the attrition game against Dwarves, Orcs, Chaos Dwarves & Co. .

I still don't see the cheese.

Edit: Hell, I say let them in after 2 more DoD seasons, just to see how it goes. If anyone wants to give them a try, let them. How many 2000+TV teams are there in the Divisions?

Okay, now add 200TV of block and +ag on a line manager with pass, still feel dairy free?

Yep. Passing access is ridiculous - who are you going to throw it to? You have no AG4 receivers and while you do have agility access for catch and diving catch, putting either of those skills on a letter is ludicrous given your need for block, guard and grab.

And if you add 200TV of block, to be a fair comparison you have to set that against your opponents who will be getting guard and mighty blow as their normal skills from that same 200TV.

There is a roster - Savage Orcs - which is quite similar to this one - see http://www.midgardbb.com/MBBLTeams/SavageOrc.html . This roster has apparently been used in several large play-by-email and TT leagues for years. You see that they have ST 4 players available to break the line, so do not need to use their blitz, and so I think they are better for it.

Try the team. It starts out shit and gets worse as TV rises, and while there's speculation that it may become competitive (competitive, not overpowered) at high TV, there's very little evidence for that so far.

That said, most of the objections appear to be on look-and-feel grounds rather than balance, which is fair enough I guess. I would just say that players have been using new rosters in TT games for years. A quick net search reveals Chaos Halflings, the aforementioned Savage Orcs, Bretons, etc etc. Those are added without years and years of playtesting (the playtesting occurs after they've been added) and people are happy to play them. Not sure why there's all the hate for Khorne.

It's like with any inofficial or house rules. They usually reflect a consensus of a group of players or community on changes to an established system of rules that everyone feels comfortable with, so these changes often come from within that group. At some point it all becomes a bit silly of course, since you could argue that for Cyanide's game, the Khorne team is an official team.

A lack of consensus is at least part of the problem. No one asked for this team, especially when there were other older teams we were expecting instead (as well as star players, special plays, etc).

Just as we didn't ask for it, unlike other teams in development there are no avenues for feedback that might resolve our issues. We're unlikely to get another version of Blood Bowl or any major patches on Cyanide's game. The video game is not the evolving landscape the tabletop or even the FUMMBL game is, it's the final product. This version of the team is the version we're stuck with.

Although I guess it may all be moot anyway. Cyanide's only bug fixer (pmcc) for this game is leaving the company very shortly, they are having to moving the server to a new company too as their current host has ended the contract. How long will the servers be open anyway?

Aye, the eventual fate of the Khorne team may well lie in the hands of the tabletop fans when it's all said and done. If it isn't being picked up there then it might just vanish with the video game, eventually.

Grump grump indeed.

Has anyone considered what will happen once we lose the game servers? I believe there are people who have set up private leagues somehow - and with mods, even. Or, we could hop onto FUMBBL.

Although I guess it may all be moot anyway. Cyanide's only bug fixer (pmcc) for this game is leaving the company very shortly, they are having to moving the server to a new company too as their current host has ended the contract. How long will the servers be open anyway?

My cursed Helfs notched up another defeat, 2-1 to Kapouille's halflings. Largely a series of incredibly bad rolls on both sides, including one of Kapouille's treemen re-rolling skull-skull-bothdown to skull-skull-skull at one point!

Div J Matchday 2

The first touchdown was Rotekian's Dark Elves forcing a failed dodge from a ghoul and carrying the ball back for a TD. A counter drive up the gut, with a little good fortune in dodge rolls resulted in an Undead TD on their final turn of the half.

The Dark Elves received the kickoff for the second half and gradually made their way downfield, caged up. They got caught around midfield, before a turnover (I didn't catch what happened exactly) gave my ghoul a fortunate pickup with open field ahead of her.

Thank you to Rotekian for a good game, a draw would probably have been a fairer result.

The first half was a brutal 8 turn grind by the winkster Injuring humans left and right. In fact the game started with a rock badly hurting one of the armies players. Then I managed to waste an Apothecary on Bertolf Grayland's brother (unlevelled, no SPP catcher) as it thoght it was Bertolf (over 100 SPPs). This came back to bite me when Arnuld Screamer, original draftee of the Army, 53 games played was killed later in the game.

The Army got it's own back gang fouling Sibil the Lizard Star Player out of the game.
And then scored a beautiful one turner to take it to 1 - 1 at half time.

All I needed to do was to construct a 8 turn drive to win the game and thus promotion. Then I realised I hadn't actually constructed and 8 turn drive in about 30 or so games.

I sensed an opportunity to construct a cage in Doom's half but the plan failed at the first hurdle when my Ogre Bonheaded so I fell back on trying to pull off a 2 turn touchdown and dropped my thrower back. Doom ran Lizards into my backfield and marked up my 4 players in his half. A wizard Lightning bolt knocked my thrower down but not out and he pulled himself off the ground, picked up the ball, pushed himself to the limit if his range and long bombed the ball to a Blitzer who was covered by a tiny Skink.

A tiny Skink who intercepted.

Death formed a two lizard cage on the side line and marked up my players. The only option was for Grayland (Bertolf) to make a string of dodges, including a 5+ to make a 1-die blitz against the Skink pushing him into the crowd and sending the ball centre field. My thrower once again pushed himself to the limit of his movement - scooped up the ball and sent a regulation pass to an unmarked Catcher who fumbled it.

A Skink recovered but was put on his scaly arse and the Army put 3 players round the ball. The lizards scraped two off and then the dreaded Man Skink made his appearance, scooping up the ball under the nose of the final player. Nothing could be done, a desperation 2d block against was a double skull.

Wink won a deserved 2-1 victory to gain promotion to the Champs division and the Army is once again relegated and fall short of the Champs.

RIGHT! Week 2 has finished. And.. .we're doing pretty well, with most games played despite the xmas shenanigans. I'll give any outstanding games the weekend to get sorted, let me know if you think it's gonna take more than that.

In other reports, I narrowly beat screwie's delvers this evening, my mighty blow+tackle players finally working out what those spikes all over their armour was for. % injuries and a fair number of KOs made it hard for scrwewie, bright sun ruining his drive in the first half and only-having-8-players ruining any efforts at cracking my ALL-GUARD(TM) cage in the second as I slowly wandered up the pitch, bashing elves all the way. I think there were 5 left by the end. Of course, elves being elves I survived a narrow CRAZY-BLITZ of a dodgy elf late in the second half but recovered the ball for a 1-0.

So, on to snoozer's dwarves for the final game of the season. Less bashing from me, I think. I gave a blitzer grab on top of block, guard, tackle, as I'm now trying to collect all the skills in one team :-).