flipflop wrote:I've got a copy of that already, it's the book of lithographs itself I meant, the original plates could be bought for a few grand in good condition, that was a good few years ago mind.

The book of expedition notes is a fine read in its own right (this one in your quote above)

Here's my own copy

Cheers

Figured as much. That's nice that the plates have been kept in good condition. Never heard of the book until now but sounds up my alley so will add it onto the extensive wish list.

Atkinson seems like an interesting fellow:

James Atkinson, doctor, journalist and artist of the Afghan Campaign, became superintendent of the Government Gazette in 1818, and of the Press from 1823. In 1833, he became surgeon to the 55th native Infantry and between 1838 and 1841 served in Kabul. The present sketches are original drawings made by Atkinson on the spot and relate to his publications Sketches in Afghanistan and The Expedition into Afghanistan. The drawings are inscribed with references to the artist’s journal, and the artist’s notes explain where in his planned publication the various illustrations should appear. Clearly Atkinson intended many more drawings to be published than in fact appeared. His sketches in fact contain 25 drawings plus the original frontispiece (the original drawing for which is in this collection); 16 of the remaining original drawings are in the India Office Library. At the time when Atkinson was travelling Afghanistan was a little-known country. Atkinson took drawing lessons from the artist George Chinnery. He probably first met Chinnery in 1805 when he was appointed assistant surgeon at Backergunge, to the south of Dhaka, soon after Chinnery was in Dhaka from 1808. His wife became a student of the artist and Atkinson himself is known to have executed a number of copies after Chinnery in addition to his own original watercolours.

"If you were born near someplace called "The Erg of ____" you lost the lottery." - Kurt the Wise

"If you're stupid, the whole world is a dangerous place." - friendlyskies

He bugged out from Kabul just before the Afghans started gutting the British like fish. The warnings were already there in Atkinson's tale of the initial march into the country by the Army of the Indus. Anyone from the column even going for a slash in the bushes was likely to get dragged away and sliced up. The sheer hatred and ferocity of the locals was laughed away - who could beat an army as grand as this one? Successes at Ghazni and Kandahar swelled heads even further; finally, the going firm in Kabul was lacksadaisical, with the armoury & QM stores built outside the main cantonment, the latter overlooked by many of Kabul's hills, and the Afghans bided their time. When they brought artillery pieces to bear on the stunned British, it was game over. Traditional Afghan treachery did the rest and we got our asses kicked all the way to Jalallabad.

Cheers

Patriots always talk of dying for their country, and never of killing for their country - Bertrand Russell

flipflop wrote:He bugged out from Kabul just before the Afghans started gutting the British like fish. The warnings were already there in Atkinson's tale of the initial march into the country by the Army of the Indus. Anyone from the column even going for a slash in the bushes was likely to get dragged away and sliced up. The sheer hatred and ferocity of the locals was laughed away - who could beat an army as grand as this one? Successes at Ghazni and Kandahar swelled heads even further; finally, the going firm in Kabul was lacksadaisical, with the armoury & QM stores built outside the main cantonment, the latter overlooked by many of Kabul's hills, and the Afghans bided their time. When they brought artillery pieces to bear on the stunned British, it was game over. Traditional Afghan treachery did the rest and we got our asses kicked all the way to Jalallabad.

Smart man.

Any recommended books on that time?

Also, as someone that has studied the occupational history of the area and also been there, do you ever come across relevant parallels? Seems there's much to learn from British and Russian history there.

"If you were born near someplace called "The Erg of ____" you lost the lottery." - Kurt the Wise

"If you're stupid, the whole world is a dangerous place." - friendlyskies

Another account, by the Scottish political agent Alexander Burnes. 'Bokhara Burnes' was a bit of a boy, and his 'swordplay' with the dusky beauties of Kabul was a big reason why the locals wanted the British dead.

He wrote about his time between 1836-38, when he was in Kabul intriguing with Dost Mohammed, whose son Akbhar Khan defeated the British in 1842. He remained calm under attack, but was chopped up early in the Kabul uprising.

As for parallels with today, I wouldn't know about that. I spent two years in the bubble of Kabul, where nothing resembles the rest of the country. I visited everywhere except down south where the Brits are now finding it hard going. If anything has remained the same it's probably the Afghan character - tough, hard people. They are definitely not like Arabs.

However, I'm waiting out on word of a deployment to Kandahar, which hopefully should happen very soon - I'm looking forward to finally getting down south, and I'm 90% sure this gig is going to happen. Fingers crossed, I've got my Afghan mojo back for sure.

Cheers

Patriots always talk of dying for their country, and never of killing for their country - Bertrand Russell

flipflop wrote:This is the best account I've read, by a direct descendant of Major Eldred Pottinger, the 'Hero of Herat'. He was an Ulsterman, so no bullshitting, they don't make men like this anymore.

flipflop wrote:Another account, by the Scottish political agent Alexander Burnes. 'Bokhara Burnes' was a bit of a boy, and his 'swordplay' with the dusky beauties of Kabul was a big reason why the locals wanted the British dead.

He wrote about his time between 1836-38, when he was in Kabul intriguing with Dost Mohammed, whose son Akbhar Khan defeated the British in 1842. He remained calm under attack, but was chopped up early in the Kabul uprising.

There was a lot of characters back then. Probably why I liked The Man Who Would Be King and Kim so much -- seems like those people could've existed at the time.

flipflop wrote:As for parallels with today, I wouldn't know about that. I spent two years in the bubble of Kabul, where nothing resembles the rest of the country. I visited everywhere except down south where the Brits are now finding it hard going. If anything has remained the same it's probably the Afghan character - tough, hard people. They are definitely not like Arabs.

However, I'm waiting out on word of a deployment to Kandahar, which hopefully should happen very soon - I'm looking forward to finally getting down south, and I'm 90% sure this gig is going to happen. Fingers crossed, I've got my Afghan mojo back for sure.

Yeah, I'm definitely one of the advocates of the "geography makes the people" school of history. Mountain people in general seem unkillable - Afghans, Chechens, etc. You probably already know about the American version of that, the Scots-Irish, given where you're from.

Best of luck getting the deployment to Kandahar, be safe, and come back alive.

V

"If you were born near someplace called "The Erg of ____" you lost the lottery." - Kurt the Wise

"If you're stupid, the whole world is a dangerous place." - friendlyskies

Oh yes, the Ulster Scots, there's a cultural movement of sorts with these boys back home. I'm not that clued up with it, being away for so long now. My Da's family came over from Galloway sometime during or after the Plantation, but I've also got Dublin Mick blood (and Cockney) from my Ma's side, that's mixed with bog rough Belfast.

We'll take Patton though, top man, lots of Pattons round my old neck of the woods.

What's your own history?

Cheers

Patriots always talk of dying for their country, and never of killing for their country - Bertrand Russell

Father's side is English (kind of an old family) came over w/ Quakers in late 1600s, mom's side is Swiss and came over in the 1740s. They all ended up in North Carolina in the mid-1700s. Been here breeding with the other immigrants ever since.

Only reason I brought up Scots-Irish is because of the significant population in the mountains close to where I grew up and back in the day they were pretty tough folks (still are as the area is rather impoverished in certain areas) like mountain peoples elsewhere.

"If you were born near someplace called "The Erg of ____" you lost the lottery." - Kurt the Wise

"If you're stupid, the whole world is a dangerous place." - friendlyskies

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