Israel Need Not Apply for ‘Hope and Change’

I find myself becoming more and more upset and exasperated with the way Israel is being thrown under the bus by President Obama. During his most recent Major SpeechTM, this time in Cairo — which seemed to be more popular with the American press than with the Egyptians, and which Charles Krauthammer aptly described as “abstract, vapid, and self-absorbed” — Obama made clear his intent to fundamentally change U.S.-Israeli relations, which up until now have been that of friends and allies.

He announced in Cairo: “The United States does not accept the legitimacy of continued Israeli settlements. This construction violates previous agreements and undermines efforts to achieve peace. It is time for these settlements to stop.” This was merely a formality. Anyone who pays attention could see where he was headed when he declared Iran’s nuclear energy concerns are “legitimate,” despite the fact that this is an oil-rich nation. Money for nuclear facilities might be better spent on oil refineries. But it’s not about energy. It’s about Iran’s dearest wish: to wipe Israel off the map.

Moreover, while Obama’s meeting with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was not as bad as some had feared it might be, it didn’t give the Israelis much to celebrate. As P. David Hornik rightly points out, the perception that Israel must be the one to defuse ever-rising tensions by even more diplomacy and concessions of territory — despite the fact that such moves have done nothing in the name of peace in the region and even ended up backfiring on Israel — is ominous indeed.

Obama proudly declared that the U.S. will “listen,” not “dictate,” when it comes to world affairs. But all bets are off when it’s Israel.

Why is he doing this? That’s a subject for another article.

Six million Jews were exterminated during the Holocaust. The modern nation of Israel is populated by just over seven million souls. What’s a million Jews here or there, right?

Not one of them gives a damn about Ms Meister’s story, Israel or the Jewish race. They (all of them) care only about themselves and no one else. Were this not so they would have never have voted for Obama.

Those are the facts.

Depending on how you look at them that means Israel is indeed on its own, or that there are an equal amount of Americans that cannot stand Obama who are also very, very strong allies and supporters of Israel.

Israel know this. There is a time coming when most of the 64+ million people that voted for Obama will hate the sound of his name. Keep the faith.

The real questions are (1) whether Obama will instruct the US military to attempt to stop the forthcoming Israeli attack on Iran’s nuclear facilities, and (2) whether the US military will stop them or have technical or other difficulties that somehow make them unable to do anything….

Barack Obama is existentially committed to the notion that white people are a cancer on this Earth. Jews are predominantly white and therefore inherently victimize the dark skinned Palestinians. That about explains everything. Obama threw his own white grandmother under the bus. He attended a racist church for twenty years. Obama definitely has “issues” regarding white people. No white person, Jew or otherwise, should trust him. He is severely damaging race relations throughout the world. But this should not surprise anyone. It was obvious long before the election. Many guilt tripped whites, however, preferred to look the other way. Just imagine a white politician attending a racist church for so many years. Their candidacy would have not have gotten out of the starting gate.

Umm, this propably will get censored but still: I fail to see how Obamas policies constitutes throwing Israel under the bus. He is merely demanding that they follow their own agreements, halting the expansion of illegal settlements. Gen. Petraeus also backs this policy. Israel these last years have been allowed to stand outside the system of international Law, and it is this issue Obama and the general sees a need to deal with if the US is to be percieved as a honest broker.

As for a attack on Iran: Forget it. Admiral Mullen and the general will never allow it. Period.

I will never understand, ever, why so many Jewish voters were taken in by Obama and his fellow hacks. Everything one needed to know about his character and his beliefs were laid right out there for one and all to see. It was obvious that he had Muslim roots. He didn’t just emerge full-grown, the perfect man. Nothing he is doing or saying now should come as any surprise. Our country is going to suffer, and all because some people were foolish enough to be taken in by some silly slogans. Hope and Change, indeed.

I will tell the readers what Jewish grandchildren of Holocaust survivors often do – they join the IDF in defense of our only Jewish homeland.

As a matter of fact,when many people asked me what prompted them to move to Israel after completing their university education, the answer was simple – never again, really does means never again to them.It is not simply rhetorical hyperbole.

So, if that means leaving behind a comfortable, cushy life in the US,training under grueling circumstances, having army officers yell commands at you night and day for months, then so be it. In this regard, the ends do justify the means.

By the way, very FEW Jews in Israel that I am in contact with are falling for Obama’s hope and change rhetoric. In fact, they are mostly appalled, and are counting on Netanyahu to give Obama the proverbial finger-in a polite way of course.

Also, everyone I speak to in Israel expects the Iranian issue to be dealt with militarily. If anyone thinks that these Israelis do not know what such actions will entail, then think again. Bomb shelters are a small price to pay for national survival.Mothers and fathers, who have sons and daughters, brothers and sisters who have siblings in the military, surely see their sacrifices as a small price to pay while their family members protect us all.This is what it means to have a citizen army. It is not a choice here, but an absolute necessity.

Further, the nonsense in the MSM that Israelis are atwitter about causing a rift with Washington is just that-nonsense.

While few would be foolish enough to provoke Washington for no reason, however, since listening to Obama’s dictates could lead to national suicide, surely throwing Washington (under Obama) under the bus is a no brainer.

Alliances are shifting, just pay close attention to the diplomatic flurry of FM Lieberman. Obama and his surrogates must(or should be) be wetting their trousers.

It boggles my mind how/why Jews can still vote Democrat. How many intelligent, educated Jewish people in America voted for this monster? We are our own worse enemy it seems. There ARE no right-wing leaders in Israel today and Netanyahu is no hawk…he gave up Hebron, one of the four holiest cities in Judaism, to the Philistines. Let’s hope Bibi has some backbone this time around and stands up to Obama. The future of Israel depends on it.

“Sixty Four (64) million+ Americans voted for Obama.
Many of them are/were “Jews”.
Not one of them gives a damn about Ms Meister’s story, Israel or the Jewish race. They (all of them) care only about themselves and no one else. Were this not so they would have never have voted for Obama.”

Those are most certainly NOT “the facts” and you are wrong to a serious degree.

I have (in the USA) a number of Jewish friends who voted for SOBama, yet now are ashamed…or at least regret it terribly. They have shown/admitted their genuine naivete (in their words, feeling duped, tricked, fooled…well, duuuuuh).

Though a number of American Jews may NOT have the connection to Israel which once was a given, that is not to say that their “selfishness” (if I may paraphrase you) caused them to vote for the SOB.

I think the question of what Jews who survived the holocaust would say is pretty low and unfair. It’s not like he’s cutting off aid, he’s simply asking for a halt on settlements. Like it or not, if you want resolution than both sides have to make concessions.

It’s disgusting to me to see all the buttering up to Jews and Israel, when at the end of the day if the ‘end times’ were to ever come, you’d tell all those Jews and holocaust survivors to accept Jesus or else. You’re no friend of theirs.

If the so called peace process doesnt fall over on the settlement issue and the required chanting of Obamas mantras, it will fall over on Jerusalem which is a red line for 70-80% of Israeli jews.
Obama is wasting valuable resources and Whitehouse goodwill on something that cannot come to pass without the destruction of the state of Israel and the expulsion or destruction of its Jewish inhabitants.

Someone should expalin to Obama,his crew and the dumb palestinian Arabs that Irans threat to waste Israel will result in the extinction of both the local Jews and the Arabs alike.

Why any of this is a surprise is beyond me. Everybody, including the American Jewish community, knew or should have known what Obama believed before the election. He was in a church that had an anti-Semitic pastor for 20 years. Now that same pastor is complaining that “the Jews” are keeping him from talking to Obama. Obama is a true left wing believer and one of the hallmarks of the left these days is anti-Semitism.

Israel has a right to exist as a nation. Israel has a right to defend itself as a nation. Israel has a right to keep the land it aquired in war if it so desires. No one has a right to tell Israel what to do.
If the US govermment wants to influence Israel by withholding money let them withhold it. It will have no effect. The Christians of USA and the world will see to it Israel gets everything that it needs. God has made us one in His hand.
Since when has the US military had the upper hand on the military of Israel? Not lately I suspect.
Israel has worked with every peace agreement, bent over backwards, given land and settlements away only to be stabbed in the back time and time again by the haters.
Any notion of a world body politic is a joke and always has been. Just look at the results that the UN gets from its activities around the world. Corrupt.
Since when do we allow our neighbors to run our lives? Only fools go down that road. If we as people do not have self interest than we have no interest in life at all. Israel is the same as any sane person having self interest and a desire to live, survive and grow.
The wealth of the nations will continue to pour into Israel and no man or nation can stop it. Those who propose harm to Israel will fall on their own sword. History is already confirming this.
I say this to the US politico: first take the sticks out your own eyes before you try to take the stick out of your brothers eye.
There is still truth and justice in the world and truth and justice will prevail over the tyranical.

Israel needs to throw President Obama under the bus; turnabout is fair play. Israel needs to anything to keep Iran from becoming nuclear. I know they will not disappoint us. President Obama has already sided with Hamas & the other terrorists.

If Mr. Obama would like that cooperation to cease, all he has to do is pressure Israel into a withdrawal which will limit contact between the groups and place political power into the hands of the people who execute 15-year olds for “collaboration.”

In the Biblical text referred to as the “Abrahamic Covenant”, Genesis 12:2-3, God states to Abraham and his descendants, the Jewish people, that “…I will bless those who bless you and I will curse those who curse you;…”

American presidents have historically allied our nation with Israel and the freedom-loving Jewish people, albeit some presidents more so than others. The present occupant of the Whitehouse has American and Americans treading in dangerous territory as he publicly scolds our ally Israel while embracing the Islamic despots who have threatened to destroy Israel and America. If Obama demands major concessions (West Bank territory) from Israel to further the interests of “peace”, Israel will certainly refuse. If Obama, at this point, withdraws support for Israel, he may have signaled the end to America’s favor and blessings from God. Get ready, folks, for it appears about to happen.

I thought for sure that I heard someone say something along the lines of “the US should not dictate policy to other nations” then later “Israel should curtail their settlement expansions” or was it the other way around?

Hope and change for some ends up as change
and hope for the best for others. Eighty
percent of American Jews voted for Obama
so he obviously feels he is tapped into
mainstream Jewish thinking. Keep kvetching
and you might be seen as a radical right
wing Zionist racist obstructionist uhh uhh-
well you get the picture.

Your family history about your Grandmother sounds so much like my Great Grandmother that I nearly fell out of my chair. My Grandmother was so scared she did not let anyone know she was Jewish when she migrated here and she could barely speak any English, she learned English with a thick German accent. My Grandfather had the same accent. My Grandfather never learned to read in English, but he never let anyone know his mother was a German Jew.
I loved my Grandfather more than any man when I was a just a girl, because he helped raise me. I lived with my Grandparents for four years, and it was the happiest time in my childhood.
I loved your article, and I have tears as I read of your Great Grandmother and think of mine.
My Great Grandmother would say we are doomed, I just know that is what my family would say if they were still here.
They would say Israel is the righteous side and all that go against her are not. This is what I know to be true.

Would it not be helpful if Arabic speaking Jews made a statement to the American government, how much more the UN, summarizing how they were expelled from Muslim lands and are now prospering in Israel? This is an issue which is separate from the European Holocaust.

Opinion polls in Israel before the election were running to 80 per cent for McCain and an actual exit poll of American Israelis voting went to 84 per cent. Obama said all the right things about Israel but no one believed he was anything but trouble. Fortunately there was an Israeli election right after and there was a sharp swing to the right, meaning the government headed by Netanyahu got a broad mandate to tell Obama to go to hell. To inform Jews there are neighborhoods anywhere in the world they are not permitted to live is flagrant anti-Semitism, pure and simple, with a very long history. Even the opposition led by Livni looking for any excuse to embarrass the government is with Bibi on this fundamental issue. If Obama pushes too hard, the government will fall, and but the next one will be even very more hostile. As we say in Israel, we survived the pharaoh, we can survive this jerk.

First of all, Israel has already made a strategic decision to try to destroy, or at least, militarily impede the Iranian nuclear program. The tactical decision as to the time and the methods are uncertain but not by more than three months. If Obama fails to stop Iran then Israel will do it for our own sake, and if the rest of the world suffers from an oil shortage, then the rest of the world should have acted sooner against Iran.
The canards and false history that Obama concocted in his Cairo speech that twisted Israeli and Jewish history and created silly and shallow comparisons with Arab Islamic history was, I believe, a result of Obama’s ignorance, immaturity, and total lack of experience in anything but “community organizing.” Unfortunately, Obama sees himself as an intellectual and as a know it all and thus all too often fails to check his facts and quotations. Worse he is informed and guided by his Third World 1960′s anti America and anti Israel ideology which he picked from people like his mentor’s Reverend Wright and Bill Ayers. Obama will soon learn to his dismay that the Jewish settlements have nothing to do with blocking the Israeli Palestinian peace process. He will soon learn however that the reason the Middle East peace process has always failed and will always fail is because the Palestinians and the larger Arab world will only settle for the destruction of Israel and the genocide of our Jewish citizens, and the One State Solution of replacing Israel with Palestine. In the meantime, Obama’s total lack of experience and frightening immaturity are going to cost a lot of good and innocent people, both Jews and Arabs, their lives and livlihoods. Which is why I voted for McCain, even though he is a doofus too, he is at least a realist in foreign affairs.

What always puzzled me about Israel is that it’s the only country on this planet that gets attacked, yes attacked, by hostile nations on a regular basis and, after it wins these wars that are forced upon it, Israel is constantly being called on to give back the land it had won in these wars. Think how absurd that idea is. After people keep attacking you again and again for over 60 years, the victim is asked to make reparations to the aggressors! I don’t really see why Israel should give back anything to anybody. It won and maintained its territory through warfare, which is the way most countries either become countries or expand their existing borders. Should the United States give Texas, California, and most of the Midwest back to Mexico simply because we took it away from them through the use of force? The United Kingdom was held together through centuries of warfare, whether it was against the Scots or the Welsh (and lets not even talk about what the British did in Ireland to try and hold on to that territory). Should the United Kingdom be broken up because they kept their nation together by using raw military power? And when people ask the question, “what ‘right’ does Israel have to exist,” well, for that matter, what “right” does France or Germany have to exist? The borders of France and Germany (which wasn’t even a country until the late 19th Century; before then it was Prussia) have shifted dramatically over the centuries, yet no one is asking the French or the Germans to give land that they took back to their previous owners. How about countries like Lebanon or Iraq, which were never even countries, just imaginary borders that were created by European powers after World War I. How come Lebanon and Iraq aren’t asked to break up so that their land be given back to the various tribes that were there first? This is insane. At some point the Arab world, as well as the rest of the world, has to just come to the conclusion that the Israelis won their land through much blood and hard work and that they deserve to keep it. All of it. The Palestinians were defeated, yes DEFEATED, several times and should not be rewarded for their failure on the battlefield. Like the American Indian tribes, if you lose your land through force you’re not likely to get it back. If you don’t believe that, then every nation on every continent that won land through warfare, no matter how far back, has to give that land back to its “rightful” owners. Israel should be allowed to keep their land, forever.

“To inform Jews there are neighborhoods anywhere in the world they are not permitted to live is flagrant anti-Semitism, pure and simple, with a very long history.”

So by this you imply that the state of Israel does not have to honour its obligations? Because last time I checked, settlement freeze was a part of the Roadmap that Israel had agreed to. So strange when demanding someone keep their part of the bargain becomes a act of treason. Most of those settlements are illegal, you know?

The Palestenian apologists who constantly harp that Israel is acting “contrary to international law” need to remember that Palestine and the Arab World DO NOT EVEN RECOGNIZE ISRAEL’S RIGHT TO EXIST. Iran has been allowed to flaunt “international law” for decades. Israel has the right to self-determination and self-defense.

However, it’s good to have President Obama on the record and for the people to see where he stands. While I think his pre-election record clearly predicted the course he has now charted, there were many Christians and Jews who convinced themselves that there would be no change in the U.S. policy towards Israel. Tragic . . .

Alone in the Middle East, except possibly for Iraq, Israel has a government freely elected by its citizens. It has a legislative body and a judicial system, both of which are effective in their fields of responsibility. Egypt, the capital of which is Cairo where the President chose to speak, is certainly not a democracy, nor is the rest of the Muslim world. Israel deserves support for its freely elected government particularly by the United States of America. And yet the President’s speech is noteworthy for the absence of such support. The question is: on which side (Muslim or Israel) is the President?

It amazes me how much vitriol is being poured out here on Obama. The supporters of Israel in this comment page seem to condemn anyone who suggests that Israel’s every act is not supremely righteous. Obama said nothing new about freezing the settlements: every president at least since Nixon has spoken about that, including Reagan and the Bushes. What seems to bother the commentators here is that Obama sounds like he means it.

But, for the sake of argument, let’s say Obama does not mean it. Suppose he does what every president has done for the past 4 decades and embraces the distinction between rhetoric and action. Then what?
Do Israel’s supporters genuinely believe Israel can survive Palestinian demographics? Either the Palestinians will be spilling over the wall that has been erected by sheer force of pressure, as steam lifts a lid off the pot, or Israel will have to take action. The only kind of action is to transport Palestinians across the Jordan. Some will call that a kind of ethnic cleansing. These supporters (And those writing here do not represent all supporters. There are many who love Israel who want her to be true to her democratic and spiritual values) of Israel are more likely to say “good riddance”.

Is this likely to happen next year or in the next 10 years? No, but it could within the next 50 to 100 years. I suspect it could happen before that if those writing in these columns would have their way.

One of the least recognized evils perpetrated by Hitler is that fear of his evil lives in so many hearts, willing to be so ruthless to prevent Hitler’s ruthlessness from recurring. It is as if people say to themselves, “We have been treated ruthlessly, ourselves; therefore we are justified in treating others ruthlessly.” Or to use an expression that prevails in the U.S. prison system: “If we are kind, they will mistake our kindness for weakness; therefore we prefer to be strong and unkind.” So Jews are no longer willing to be victims– that is good; but there are choices other than victim or perpetrator. Before we are Jews or Christians or Muslims, before we ever knew there was such a thing as religion and religious tradition and race and racial differences, we were human beings. Not all Jews are good and not all Jews are bad; not all Christians are good and not all Christians are bad; not all Muslims are good and not all Muslims are bad.

Yeshayahu Leibowitz quotes Ezekiel 33 v. 23-29:
23.”Then the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,
24. “Son of man, they that inhabit those wastes of the land of Israel speak, saying, Abraham was one and he inherited the land; but we ae many; the land is given us for inheritance.
25. “Wherefore say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God: Ye eat with the blood and lift up your eyes toward your idols and shed blood; and shall ye possess the land?
26. “Ye stand upon your sword, ye work abomination, and ye defile everyone his neighbor’s wife; and shall ye possess the land?
27. “Say thus unto them, Thus saith the Lord God: As I live surely they that are in the wastes shall fall by the sword and him that is in the open field will I give to the beasts to be devoured and they that be in the forts and in the caves shall die of the pestilence.
28. “For I will lay the land most desolate and the pomp of her strength shall cease; and the mountains of Israel shall be desolate, that none shall pass through.
29. “Then shall they know that I am the Lord, when I have laid the land most desolate because of all their evil deeds which they have committed.”

To support either Israel or the Arabs unconditionally is to deny that there is a capacity for evil within every human heart, Jewish and non-Jewish alike. The defenders of Israel who condemn President Obama’s peace overtures run the risk that they will regard every ruthless, inhuman act committed by Israel in the name of self-defense as justifiable. That is the same as saying that evil can only exist in our enemies’ intentions, not in our own. Yet the prophet Ezekiel suggests otherwise and suggests Israel will be held to account by its own beliefs.

If Israel’s fundamentalist supporters wish to claim its right to the extended lands of eretz-Israel by virtue of Biblical injunction, they must be prepared to be held to account by that same injunction.

What is the answer: You do not have to be optimistic to be supportive of Obama’s efforts. Prepare for the worst, while hoping and working for the best. If a man wishes his own humanity to be recognized and respected, he had best extend that same recognition and respect to his neighbor. For the question “Who is my neighbor?” see the New Testament story of the good Samaritan.

I would add that this so called ‘disputed land’ has historically ALWAYS been Jewish land-for centuries no less. The Arabs who lived there came and went, conditioned upon Jewish development & employment opportunites. However, the call to Zion is part and parcel of our biblical/historical journey.

Added to this mix is the perverse absurdity of the winner of defensive wars having to justify its existence, unlike any other country on this bleeding planet.NO nation has more title rights than Israel. The reality that a nation-unlike any other- has to not only defend itself in the court of public opinion, but on the battlefield, reeks of nothing short of anti-semitic attitudes.

It’s beyond tiring to repeatedly see well written pieces, authored by thoughtful people, which incorporate one version or another of “We sure didn’t see that coming,” about this unAmerican fraud.

What HAS surprised me in the last 6 months is the speed with which he is taking action designed to take the United States down and the apparently completely failure of will on the part of other elected officials to express any serious concern about what he is doing.

There ARE actually elected officials in this nation who have the authority to stop him, based on Constitutional violations.

Why aren’t they stopping him?

Are they afraid? If they are afraid, what are they afraid of? (THAT might be worth hearing about)

Jewish proverb, “He who is kind to the wicked, will visit wickedness upon the kind”.

I want the Arabs out. Let the Jordanians take them in. The international community can divert all those wasted resources it currently spends on the Arabs in Judea-Samaria and Gaza and spend it instead on settling those Arabs in Jordan (95% Palestinian, btw).

I don’t justify this with Biblical injuction. I justify it by the injunction of nature which is that of survival. Israel won wars where the aggressors intended to massacre the Jewish population. Israel took territories from the losers who, aside from Syria, have renounced ownership of the land. Get the Arabs settled in Arab countries controlled by governments who have shown the capacity for moderation and calm (Jordan is a prime example) and then you’ll see a peace more meaningful then rhetoric ever has been.

Obama’s position regarding the settlements is the ultimate confirmation of the world’s wish to throw Israel under the universal bus. This is not in the interest of peace, only in the interest of the “cowards of the world unite!” de-facto movement.

But cowardice is not a historic characteristic of Israel. Nethanyahu lost his own brother in the rescue of the Israeli hostages in Entebbe. Do you expect him to shrink before the duty to defend the nation hostage to universal political correctness?

Nethanyahu will be forced to call Obama’s bluff in order to defend his people. An attack on Iran by Israel alone can bring the problem to the forefront, but not ultimately solve it. As long as Israel lays low (how long?), the whole issue is in the theoretical realm, Obama’s specialty, which is why he is winning all the arm-twisting contests so far.

As soon as Israel takes the initiative, Obama will be on the spot. He will not have the luxury to ignore the problem anymore. As long as talking is the game, Obama wins. When the game switches to acting, the man will be tested for the first time in his life, because there is no affirmative action doctrine that will excuse a US president for failing to confront the facts.

Kenrick (comment #34) writes : “If a man wishes his humanity to be recognized and respected, he had best extend that same recognition and respect to the neighbor.” Kenrick, you won’t get any argument from me, or, I’d wager, many other Jews. After all, Jews are the folks who introduced the concept of “equal treatment for the stranger” to the rest of the world — and a most radical doctrine it was at the time. (In fact, in most parts of the world, it’s still considered a radical doctrine.) The admonition against oppressing strangers appears 36 times in the Hebrew Bible. So, if you’re directing your comment to Jews in general or Israelis in particular, you’re preaching to the choir.

But you shouldn’t be directing your comment to Jews of any stripe. You should be directing it to Muslims, and particularly those Muslims who call themselves Palestinians. They’re the people who have, since at least the very early years of the last century, refused to extend either recognition or respect to Jews. The record on this matter is absolutely clear — and hideously bloody. Again and again and again, the Arabs have disdained peace overtures from the Jews of Israel; again and again, Israeli offers of honest negotiation and respectful discussion have been spurned, denounced, and treated with the most abject disrespect by their Arab interlocutors.

I don’t know how much more plainly I can say this: If you’re implying the Jews are the bad guys in this century-long tragedy, you’re committing an outrageous act of role reversal. There are bad guys aplenty, but they’re all Palestinians and their Muslim cohort. The newly-founded State of Israel, seeking nothing more than peaceful coexistence with its Arab neighbors, was immediately invaded by Arab countries, not the other way around; Yasir Arafat was, the last time I checked, a Muslim, not a Jew; the perpetrators of the ghastly pogrom in Hebron in 1929 were Arabs, not Jews. And so it goes, on and on. I wish I were exaggerating when I write that the Arabs dream of dead Jews, but the historical record clearly demonstrates that I am not.

You have a wonderful message to convey, Kenrick, but the people who need to hear it are not listening, and they never have been. For at least a century now, the entire world has been grappling with the problem of how to get the message of mutual recognition and respect across to people who refuse to hear. I wish you good luck with that.

Kendrick:
Please stop wrapping scripture and misunderstood Judeo-Christain “doctrine” around Obama’s perfidy or your Pollyannish and slavish devotion to Obama, the Left and the Democrat Party. Please stop confusing these bromides of yours, which you appear imagine are somehow “Biblical”, with the actual tenants of the actual faiths at issue. They are no such thing. If this is an honest effort on your part, your superficial grasp of the the Judeo-Christain heritage is stunning and alarming.

It is a profound misuse of scripture to use the verses that you cite to bustress your political position. These verses in fact has nothing at all to do with the current situation, are taken out of context and are complete red herrings to the argument at hand.

You are putting words in God’s mouth, You are literally blaspheming.
Doing this puts into question your very claims of religious faith.

Similarly, your insistence on repeating the slander that the Jews are treating the Palestinians as the Nazis treated the Jews calls in to question the sincerity of your appeals to religion–or even morality in general. This business is a lie, and thus your stance is completely without merit. This falsehood is merely a construction of the Left and those in Palestine and the larger Muslim world that wish ill on the Jews, Israel and the USA. It is fraud, agitprop, slander and libel, and no other thing.

It is absolturely clear what Obama intends, as it is aboslutely clear that the Democrats are competely opposed to the enitre Judeo-Christian heritage. Indeed, they are opposed to Western Civilization itself and wish to destroy it utterly. They deem that Israel and the USA are the now best places to strike to achieve their hideous ends. It is fatuous nonsense to hold that Obama is attempting to achieve “World Peace” in any manner or to any outcome that is meaningful to the dignity, success or survival of the USA, Israel or Western Civilization at large.

If you really are the Christian (Jew?) you profess to be, you need to engage in some serious soul searching for you are lending support to the foes your civilization. You you are either deeply confused about your beliefs, their application or the duties that arise from them. You do not understand who your enemies are.

Either that, or you are a liar.

It is impossible for a devout Christian or Jew to support Obama–and all he stands for–and support Israel at the same time, at least not with a clear heart, mind and soul.

The settlements background. Balfour Declaration states that Jews may settle “anywhere in Palestine.” League of Nations ratifies Balfour Declaration as international law. United Nations endorses League of Nations ratification in its Charter, Article 80. This is the UN constitution so all resolutions to the contrary are unconstitutional.

Along the way during the 15 years of negotiations with the PLO, Israel agreed to establish no new settlements in Judea and Samaria. No government agreed to limiting natural growth of established settlements approved legally. Illegal outputs are taken down.

The Arabs also claim developments in Jerusalem are “settlements.” Israel rejects this, Jerusalem has been the capital for 3000 years and it will never be turned over to the Arabs in this and or another peace deal. The Arabs are claiming non-stop building in Jerusalem are violations of agreements. It is not clear where Obama stands on this. The big highly developed towns in the territories would be choked if they couldn’t add new subdivisions and industries and that’s not going to stop either nor did any government agree to this.

Arab propaganda always refers to Judea and Samaria as “occupied territories” and illegal under “international law.” If they were “occupied territories” settlements might very well be illegal despite Article 80 and the historic ties of the Jews to the territory predating that of the Arabs. But the Geneva Conventions define “occupied territory” as that occupied from another state. These are disputed territories. Israel liberated Judea and Samaria from a conquest land grab by Jordan.

Arab propaganda distorts another issue as well, their so-called refugees. Resolution 242 of the UN Security Council calls for a resolution of the refugee problem, the members having rejected a Soviet attempt to make it “Arab” refugee problem. That means the Arabs pay up for the property confiscated from the 850,000 Jewish refugees which exceeds by $4 billion the property abandoned by 500,000 Arab refugees and we can call that one square. Anything else?

#29 libertyship 49: don’t you remember the playground rule of etiquette of your youth? when you played marbles,if you didn’t say keepsies,you had to return your won marbles at games end. Israel can resolve this world problem by just saying,”keepsies.” other than this small,but very important,oversight you are right on the mark,dead on!

If the US admin does indeed cut off aid to Israel -it wont make a difference.Thats where ill open my wallet and make plans to go to Israel for the IDF.It my duty and my birthright.Left or right wing wont matter at that point.It will be the choice between freedom or slavery/death.As one friend of mine said correctly,”the jewish faith is the only one that makes any sense to me.”

Obama has nothing to fear. All minorities, with blacks and hispanics front and center, are haters of the Jews. Academia, with the professoriate in the lead, hates Jews. Huge swaths of our totally secularized urban chattering class hates the Jews. So Obama is quite safe taking a position that is on the edge of, and soon will be over the edge of explicit antisemitism.

#46 brian, can you get me into Israel also? i’m kind of old,but i can still pull a trigger and keep the round between the nipples at 1000 yds. i’ve got 20 yrs. of military experiance and am sniper trained. will bring my own guns. am a trained gunsmith for a former black ops. outfit too. unfortunately i’m not jewish but it would be an honor to die in service of that great country!

In response to the oft-repeated question, “How much longer will Israel have to fight?”, Moshe Beilinson responded, “Until the most fervent warrior in the enemy camp realizes that there is no means by which to break Israel’s power in its land, because it has necessity and living truth on its side. Until they know that there is no other way but to make peace with Israel. This is the purpose of our struggle.”

pretty interesting situation: the deathwish christians are temporarily allied with the samson option zionists… sooner or later, those factions will come to a parting of the ways, as the deathwish christians attempt to fulfill “biblical prophecy” by exterminating jews, and the samson option israelis will, in retaliation, attempt to nuke everyone within range of their missiles.

cool.

meanwhile, the other main PNAC faction, the oily corporate fascists like exxon —PNAC being composed of deathwish christians, samson option israelis, and corporate fascists— would just as soon not turn the planet into a radioactive slagheap.

so the PNAC alliance behind this so-called “war on terror” —which is really a land and oil acquistion project— has some serious fault lines that will probably come into play once the crunch comes.

that crunch gets closer with every barrel of oil we burn, seeing as how israel must be secured by its american proxy armies before those armies run out of gas…

the most promising interim solution is to stage a new “new pearl harbor”, like that wished for by PNAC in september of 2000, just before the PNAC signatories were installed into positions from which they could make their “new pearl harbor” happen.

this interim solution —another 9/11 false flag— may mobilize america to a total war footing, but it’s not gonna put any more oil into the ground, and it’s probably not gonna make the russians and chinese surrender their energy to PNAC… after all, they’ve already been through this song and dance once before, with 9/11, and they’re catching onto the scheme.

so that’s where the neocons’ “nuclear primacy” comes into play: we can do nuke first strikes on russia and china, which should lead to armageddon, at which point the deathwish christians can commence exterminating jews.

meanwhile, if the deathwish christian extermination project progresses to the point that the existence of israel is threatened, israel can employ its samson option, and kill as many people as possible as it goes under, thus displaying the ultimate example of zionist morals.

it’s no secret that the israelis have been pushing for reassembly of the middle east for decades, and it seems reasonable to assume that israel —located as it is adjacent to the world’s biggest oil patch— would not be nearly as important to america if america were not so dependent on oil… for instance, if america was supplying itself with electricity from nuke plants built and operated by exxon, fueled with uranium from exxon mines.

if exxon had continued with its nuke development, maybe most of us would be driving electric cars by now…

…but once exxon became aware of israeli americans’ determination to thwart development of nuke plants, once exxon became aware of the power of the israeli american media, once exxon became aware of israeli and israeli american determination to remodel the middle east, exxon gave up on their nukes and joined up with the israeli americans in their land and oil acquisition project.

since the american taxpayer would be footing the bill for the project —at a time when oil is getting scarce and exploration and production costs are soaring— an alliance with the israeli americans and their PNAC project is the cheapest way for exxon to grab a chunk of the biggest oil reserves in the world.

“What HAS surprised me in the last 6 months is the speed with which he is taking action”

It’s what happens when a country’s time has come. Remember how fast the Soviet Union went down? I am very concerned that our country’s time has come and hope I am wrong. Look at the big fuss made over Dr. Tiller and hardly a word about the soldier killed in Little Rock. Both murderers are wholly unrepentant but only one is called a terrorist by the media.

47. ricpic:

I am with you on this. Western Civilization may have come to a tipping point and it won’t be pretty.

The Jews of the Holocaust would be shocked that the most powerful nation in the world unequivocally stands behind the existence of a Jewish state in the Holy Land. The Jews of the Holocaust would find it inconceivably great that America defends the nation of Israel and the Jewish people. The Jews of the Holocaust would be incredulous that such mild demands, such as the cessation of settlements and the eventuality of a Palestinean state, could be seen as disjunct with support of the Jewish people.

The Jews of the Holocause knew that the seduction of the absolute answer, the temptation to allow any offense to justify ultimate opposition, is anathema. The Jews of the Holocaust would have cried seeing these comments. For they prove what they probably knew, but hoped against. People don’t change. The child-like desire for easy answers is just as strong now as it was then.

(1) Reply to #13 Middleman: The Jews in Israel have made many concessions, the Arabs have made none.
(2) On President Obama’s speech in Cairo: the cause of the conflict between the Arabs and Jews in Israel is Muslim intolerance of Jews. The attacks on Jews in the old Palestine Mandate predate the establishment of Israel; they started in the early 1920s under the leadership of the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem Haj Husseini, who became an ally of Adolf Hitler. The Arab states expelled all Jews after Israel became a state.
(3) Calling Arabs (non-Jews) who live in Gaza, Judea, and Samaria “Palestinians” is history rewrite from Soviet propaganda, the Soviet Union having founded the Palestine Liberation Organization (P.L.O) with Nasser in Cairo in 1964. “Palestine” was the name given to Judea by the Roman Emperor Hadrian in 135 A.D. after defeating the last Jewish rebellion under Bar Kokba. He wanted to eradicate all memory of Judea and the Jews. But “Palestine” became synonymous with “land of the Jews” or “the Holy Land,” and “Palestinian” synonymous with “Jew.” which is why the Zionists wanted the “Palestine Mandate.”
(4) Why did President Obama give a speech in Cairo?

This is an easy one, actually. The Precedent hates the West. He hates everything about the West. He wants the West to pay for having, in his demented mind, shamed “his peoples” (non-whites, and more generally, third-worlders) with the Western advances and achievements and power. His driven by this one desire, to exact revenge on the successful, the smart, and the West, at large.

Israel is a big part of that, and the most symbolic, so it must be destroyed. But he wants to use Israel to take Iran down, first, and then he can gang up with Europe in some ridiculous kabuki dance about war crimes, or something, and strangle Israel through embargos and, he will attempt, blockades, if necessary, until the arabs are able to complete the job themselves. This was, most likely, the whole “gird your loins” scenario that Biden was babbling about.

And when he’s finished with that, The Precedent will complete his attacks on the US and Europe. The destruction of our monetary system is his chosen method, here. All he needs to do is load up on debt and obligations and get the economy to grind to a halt. Do I hear crap&trade, universal health care, anti-competitive policies, destruction fo the sanctity of contracts (stuff that you don’t recover from!).

As to Europe, don’t think he gave Gordon Brown a set of DVDs just to be funny, or that he thought the Queen would really like an iPod. He has real contempt for everything Western and an intense dislike of the US. His true hate of America was evident in the buzzing of Ground Zero with Air Force One (the details of which we still don’t know) and that insane, dictator-like night out in Manhattan just after. These are not minor events, but glimpses into his thinking (not that his thinking is very complex or difficult to identify, to begin with). For those who don’t take to those sorts of obvious signs, there were always his talks about bankrupting the coal industry, cheerfully, or how he would raise capital gains taxes even if it meant reduced government receipts, because inflicting the pain on the successful was the most important thing. That is who The Precedent is.

Israel is alone. They should have known this on Nov 5th, as it was easy to see. Now, they have to decide if they are going to do what is necessary to survive, which will be quite ruthless action. But that is the context of today, just as the context of WWII forced such action there, as well. Only today is even more dangerous.

“The Jews in Israel have made many concessions, the Arabs have made none.”

yeah.

i spose it’s not a “concession” when 700,000 of your people are frogmarched at gunpoint from the land they’ve lived on for generations.

of course, in the best of all zionist worlds — a world in which non-jews have no human rights, because they are, after all, not quite human, and so have no human rights— anyone terrorized from his land by jews should knuckle under, move to jordan, and give thanks that he escaped with this life.

the logical solution, for you hardcore samson option zionists, is to excommunicate all jews that think israel was a mistake and are horrified by zionist attempts to preserve israel, seeing as how israel was founded and preserves itself with lies, terror and injustice…

…you can have an official ruling from the rulers of israel, the ADL, AIPAC, JINSA, the AEI and the zionist media: anyone who isnt willing to die in israel’s samson option is expelled from jewishness.

the “light unto nations” is shaping up last only milliseconds, as israel commits nuke suicide… and there might be quite a few jews who would just as soon avoid the pleasure of death by radiation poisoning.

really, when you think about it, israel is in an idiotic situation, one of their own making, too, which makes it worse.

i mean, how can such a pipsqueak nation, hitched to a dying empire, hope to dominate the world, especially in view of the fact that more and more of the world is recognizing israel for what it is?

…and what israel is, is: the most likely source of a global nuke war… a war in defense of a bad idea that mocks supposed jewish aspirations to moral behavior and justice.

so you radicals can redefine jewishness to conform to your actions and excommunicate those jews who are unwilling to toe your “might makes right” line.

your hypocrisy, claiming the moral high ground as you commit atrocities in defense of a bad idea… that hypocrisy is becoming so obvious that zionist jews are the laughingstock of the world, or would be if they werent heavily armed and borderline suicidal.

deathwish christians allied with samson option jews… a catastrophe looking for a time to happen.

Israel is a minor power. They just look like a tough guy because of the neighborhood they live in. They came very close to loosing in 1973 and were pushed out of Lebanon in 2006. They do not have any capability to attack Iran or defend themselves after if Iran hits back – without the US as their shield and our troops blood on the ground. Their nuclear capability is probably one or two devices that have never been tested and may or may not work.

I respect Israel for what they have done with nothing in the Middle East. Buried back in my family were people who were put in the death camps who were not Jews. There were many of them also beside the Jews who were murdered. If most of the Middle East disappeared tomorrow the world would be a better place for it. But, it is not going to.

America does not have the troops or the money or the world power anymore to run to the defense of Israel if they do something stupid like attack Iran. And Israel knows it. The same applies to the US continuing to ignore the endless squabbling over Palestine. Obama is telling Israel that it is time for that to end — deal with it — now. Obama needs to take care of America first — and that is just what he is doing.

Yes, jv99, Israel is, as you say, “a minor power”. But the last time I checked, the God of Israel is still the major power. How do you think Israel has survived…and thrived…in the midst of those who would destroy her? Israel’s existence and prosperity can only be described as miracles of God…with her greatest days yet to come.

Wadosy – you obviously have little knowledge of real Middle Eastern history. Please put down the Left-wing cool-aid you’ve been chugging, and pick up an actual history book -you may actually learn something.

The Arabs love to bring up the 700,000+ Arabs that were displaced during the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. They fail to mention the 600,000-800,000 Jews that Arabs drove off their centuries-old communities across the Arab world between 1948-1952, many with little more than the shirts on their backs. You never hear about these refugees because they were mostly absorbed by Israel as useful citizens, unlike the Palestinian refugees, who were left to rot in refugee camps for 60 years, to be used as political pawns by the very people who claim to be fighting for their rights.

The Arabs vehemently protested the 1948 British partition of Mandate Palestine to create a Jewish homeland. Yet they spoke not a word when in 1947 the British partitioned India to create Muslim Pakistan. Double standard? That partition, by the way, created 14 MILLION Hindu/Muslim refugees (including 500,000 dead), but you don’t hear about those refugees either, as they, too, were absorbed by their respective brethren. In fact, of the millions of ethnic refugees displaced since 1945, including Germans, Hindus, Pakistani Muslims, Jews, Cubans, Tibetians, the vast majority have been settled in neighboring nations, absorbed by their kinsfolk. Only Palestinians have been condemned to live in refugee camps, usually devoid of citizenship (despite the fact most by now were born on Arab soil) and in some cases even restricted in their work, health, and land rights. Palestinians want to “return” to Palestine, yet the only ones old enough to claim this (let alone remember life there) are at least 61 years old.

I do believe Israel has to own up to its share of mistakes, especially its West Bank settlements, the endless checkpoints, excessive use of force, etc. which are wrongheaded policies, and are ultimately counterproductive. But to lay all the blame on Israel is foolish, or worse yet, extremist well beyond those you demean with terms like “deathwish christians” or “samson zionists.” No nation is perfect. I do question the legality of some of Israel’s policies. I do not question the legality of Israel. Do you?

I could go on, but I’m guessing it would be a wast of time, given your hate of Israel is deeply entrenched, to the point no reasoning could budge it. If you ever decide to wake up to the facts, feel free to contact me.

P.S. By the way, the US only became Israel’s friend and protector in the late 1970s. Israel received little if any aid during the ’48 war, the Suez Crisis, and the wars of ’67 and ’73. They did their fighting all by themselves.

N0 doubt watusy or whatever his name is; a bonafide muslim…I’ve read other posts from him and he is full of hate…Hey, Wadosy, when you are burning in hell just by your rhetoric…and you will die…everyone does…but God Almighty has mercy on you; RIGHT NOW! I think, no, I know that people like you are jealous of the prosperity of Israel…You’ve been deceived just as the like of you have…No matter what you say; I’m sure you have a horrible life….GOD BLESS ISRAEL!!!! GOD BLESS THE USA!!!! Goodness will overcome evil!!! God is protecting Israel and if any massive harm comes to them God Almighty will show everyone his power! Then people like wadosy will be hiding behind rocks and never will imagine the terror he and people like him will feel! God has sent angels to protect Israel and he will step into the circumstances in the lives of the people of Israel and Christians…YOU’LL SEE!!! GLORY TO GOD AND TO JESUS CHRIST!

No name
There are lots of foreign volunteers who go to Israel. It is highly unlikely that you would be asked to fight. However, volunteers are given support jobs such as maintaining tanks. You would learn Hebrew, have lots of fun and probably find that there are lots of other things you can put between two nipples. Check it out and enjoy the results.

Wadosy: “all jews must abandon even the pretense of morality in defense of israel”

No, Jews have not abandonded morality. If they did that, they’d be Palestinian terrorists.

Consider the vast might of the IDF. If Israel wanted to, it could have anhiliated the Palestinians long ago. But they haven’t, because though they have the means, they do not have the will. Who speaks of anhiliation? That would be Iran, Hamas, and Hezbollah, all of whose leaders have at one time or another called for the destruction of Israel. The only reason they haven’t kiled more Jews is because they don’t have the capacity… yet. Who is the real amoral extremist?

Though hundreds of thousands of Palestinians were displaced during the 1948 war, hundreds of thousands chose stayed in Israel. What happened to them? They were granted citizenship, the right to vote, the right to freedom of assembly and freedom of speech. On the other hand, what happened to the few Jews that were still in the West Bank at the end of the war? They were expelled, of course! Who lacks morals here?

Consider this thread. Who speaks of hate? Who started slandering entire ethnic/religious groups with demeaning terms such as “deathwish Christians” or “samson zionists”? That would be YOU, Wadosy. Before you start another hateful rant against “evil” outsiders, take a good look in the mirror.