Yes! I agree that there is that element of projective geometry in this card.
I love the idea that the sequence is like a developing embryo. Very cool idea, Debra!

Is everybody OK with me just barreling on with the cards? I kind of feel that I have been taking over. Shall I continue or let somebody else have a go at starting the threads?

I am totally cool with it.

I was wondering, with the minors/courts -- it might be useful to discuss them in groups or sets, since there are aspects that will carry across suits. I'm thinking of the Aces and the Fours in particular. The Aces are all hermaphroditic figures, the Fours have no human/animal figures in them, etc. What do you think? (Should this suggestion be in its own thread?)

Who or what is the woman looking at in the card? She seems to me to be looking at something out of the frame of the card?

Also is the shell bit behind the male figure a part of him or a continuation of the female? I can't tell

The man is white, don't white lillies in RWS mean spiritual purity? And red is for the material world? To me this card looks like the man is worshipping the female, to gain spiritual enlightenment? To free himself from the red physical/material world surrounding him?

Also white= yang which is male energy? Black = yin which is female? Have I got that the right way round?

Has anyone read American Gods by Neil Gaiman? Theres a scene earlyish in the book where a man is with a prostitute (who is really a Goddess) and who has sex with her which is a way of worshipping her and he ends up going inside her (kind of like a reverse birth!)...well this card reminds me of that scene

Who or what is the woman looking at in the card? She seems to me to be looking at something out of the frame of the card?

Yeah, I noticed that too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eyebright

Also is the shell bit behind the male figure a part of him or a continuation of the female? I can't tell

I am pretty sure all the dark shell parts are her. The original Lovers had two dark females. I wonder why she changed it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eyebright

The man is white, don't white lillies in RWS mean spiritual purity? And red is for the material world? To me this card looks like the man is worshipping the female, to gain spiritual enlightenment? To free himself from the red physical/material world surrounding him?

Love this.. You have a great point here. The only way for Spirit to know itself is through 'other'. You have touched on a great topic for discussion here....

I think there is a Qabalistic element here. I am just reading about it and learning, but my instincts without checking any facts is Tiphareth into Malkuth. I see the Prince and Princess in the visual symbolism, That said, in the age of the figures, I see the King and Queen - which would be Chokmah and Binah, I believe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eyebright

Also white= yang which is male energy? Black = yin which is female? Have I got that the right way round?

Yup!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eyebright

Has anyone read American Gods by Neil Gaiman? Theres a scene earlyish in the book where a man is with a prostitute (who is really a Goddess) and who has sex with her which is a way of worshipping her and he ends up going inside her (kind of like a reverse birth!)...well this card reminds me of that scene

That sounds like a book worth looking up. I know his work as a graphic novelist.... I think?

It's a really interesting novel, and there is another that is in a similar vein called the Anansi Boys. I believe he does graphic novels as well, very talented man!

Ahhh Qabalah...I know nothing about it! Can you point me in the direction of any books or websites that could help me with this topic? I really think I need to learn it in order to fully appreciate this deck.

In a lot of cultures isn't there the idea of the sacred feminine and men would "worship" the female form (sacred sex), in order to gain spiritual enlightenment? And in witchcraft there is the Great Rite, where the male and female energies unite (through sex)....

I found this paragraph here that I felt resonated for me, "Today the Great Rite deals with the essence of feminine and masculine energy as it relates to the God and Goddess. The idea is that in order to establish true Divinity within oneself, you need to accept and join your two natures together. We are all part masculine and part feminine within our being. Only when we learn to accept the nature of both can we discover the true divinity within" on this website

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