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Post your 165's!

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I'm still updating my research on the Schrade Walden and Schrade 165OT, 165UH and SFO patterns and would appreciate it if you guys would post a few pictures and some details like serial numbers, tang stamp locations and sheath types. Any magazine or catalog ads I haven't yet seen would be good too! Every one I record helps define when the changes were made.

Just to "prime the pump", so to speak, here is a picture of one you haven't seen in a while, the elusive blue Delrin 165OTSM sample...

Sure do. That is a 165SM a SFO for Smoky Mountain Knife Works. These orange handled 165's were made in 1991 and 2500 were made. I haven't seen one with the DU stamp, but it must have been an overrun of blades from an earlier DU issue. The base pattern was discontinued after 1991. You need a few more patterns to make a full hand there.

The blue handled sample I showed above was rejected in favor of the orange handles.

Here is one we don't see a lot of, the Schrade-Walden SHIKARI 165OT made for Norm Thompson with a special sheath.
This ad is from the November of 1966 issue of Outdoor Life.

And this picture shows the Shikari sheath with stone, predating the 165UH stone pocket sheaths. I only have two of these, #02200 and #00953. Only one of them has a perfect original sheath with the luggage type fastener on the stone pocket. The blades were from the earliest production run of the standard Old Timer 165's as their standard tang stamps and serials show. I believe Eric has one as well, #02267.

I have two of the Shikaris, one with the sheath. The two serial numbers are 01378 and 00365. I have two of the orange ones, one of which has a Ducks Unlimited shield. I have early and late examples of all the regular OT and UH varieties, with both carbon and stainless blades, saber and hollow and semi-hollow ground. Two kinds of Copenhagen and two kinds of Ducks Unlimited. I have a UH with no shield at all. I have a burnt Indian stag job with mosaic pins by Dale Vincent. But I don't have that blue one!!!

Thanks! Of the two Shikaris I have, likewise only one has the original sheath. What is the serial of your first production 165UH? The serial of your earliest 165OT? These numbers are helping me to better determine when these variants were produced. It is looking as though the Old Timers and Shikaris were produced from the same serialized blade production runs, and also the first run of Uncle Henrys. And not everyone can have a racing blue 165SM. I don't. I went to an auction and all I got was some pictures. It went for over three bills and I only bid half that. By the "third highest bidder" rule, I set the value.

I have three Uncle Henrys with the Walden stamp. The first two are stamped on the "left" side: Numbers 00201, and 02997. The third Uncle Henry is stamped on the "right" side, number 14608. It has a blank nickel colored shield like one sees on the Craftsman versions, but the Staglon handle. My oldest Old Timer is the Shikari mentioned earlier. Other than that it would be number 18540, stamped blade "left."

And not everyone can have a racing blue 165SM. I don't. I went to an auction and all I got was some pictures. It went for over three bills and I only bid half that. By the "third highest bidder" rule, I set the value.

Codger...
Was that the one with the cool "story" attached? I get a feeling the story sold it!

Also, I'll inventory my 165s and post on this thread later, but I believe you already have most of mine.

Thanks TR. Your UH numbers shoot my serial number speculation in the head, however. There is no way, to my knowledge, that the 165UH variants with that low of a number could have been produced at the same time as the lowest numbered 165OT and Shikari back in 1966. And it reopens the question of just how your other 165UH, #14608 and my 165UH, serial #13134, could have been produced sequentially since records show less than 5,000 produced total, the first of those shipped in 1969.

Am I dismayed by this turn of events? Nope. I, like most of you, want the straight story on the 165UH production just like you do, even if it means totally rethinking my research. Thank you!

Here is the story on the blue 165SM sample posted 11-02-2007:

Originally Posted by Codger_64

Here is an ended auction for a Schrade 165OT sample knife. I had bid what I considered to be it's value, excluding the value of the unassociated box and sheath, and the seller's story. The final selling price ($355.00) was nearly treble my idea of value of $140.00 +/-.

I am not disparaging the seller. He only did what sellers do. Fabricate facts to enlarge his profit margin on a knife bought when ISC was auctioned back in October of 2004. Given his longevity in the cutlery retail business, I would think he would know the difference between a prototype and a sample, but spinning yarns is nothing new.

This is a sample of a production pattern. The only difference between it and the regular production knife is the handle material color molded in blue Delrin instead of the stock cream Delrin with brown top dye. It was the color not chosen when SMKW ordered the orange Delrin fixed blades for their "Father and Son" hunting knife sets back when. Nope, not in pre-1973 as the box suggests, but in 1992. And the sample request order was for several of the blue handled knives, not one. So it is definately not a unique one-of-a-kind knife.

My question is...did I grossly underestimate the value of this knife, or were the higher bidders willing to grossly overpay for the story?

Codger,
I know the seller, as you do, and wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them. I remember the listing and cannot believe it was nearly 2 1/2 years ago already! The story sold the knife. I wanted it as badly as you did, but not $3c+ badly.
As my wise daddy always told me. "It's worth whatever you can get for it." But I don't figure he factored in fabricated history, I mean um, embellished stories, I mean um..., tall tales. Aw never mind!

Michael wrote: "And it reopens the question of just how your other 165UH, #14608 and my 165UH, serial #13134, could have been produced sequentially since records show less than 5,000 produced total, the first of those shipped in 1969."
Well, what if they serialized all the 165's together on an assembly line, UHs and OTs alike? Or some similar time-saving protocol, which would result in a real head-scratcher a half century later?

Yeah but... that is kicked in the head by your having 165UH #00201. For that to fit into the 165OT/Shikari sequence, it would have had to have been produced in 1966. 1969 was the first shipment of the 165UH pattern knives.

It does suggest that they started serializing them independently in '69 and then switched them to the OT sequence?