Exact kind of proof for why steroids do make you better. Not cause they make you better (no one knows that for sure one way or the other) but allow you to be playing at 100 percent all the time. Bonds would still be mashing…Get Well Manny.

You guys I really don’t know how much i’ll be around. I feel like why should I invest in the team when they didn’t themselves. This terrible pitching and not having any of it is a combo of Bad GM’ing (we’d have the money if we weren’t paying Pierre and Jones this season to play for another team and thank god they are but they make more than all of our pitchers combined I think and then of course a cheap *** owner.

Jungar — I hope you stay around and do invest the time. It will make it that much sweeter when they do get a ring.
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& I’m guessing that even if they weren’t still paying for Juan & Jones we still wouldn’t of spent that $$$ on pitching. I’m thinking it would of gone elsewhere.

We need you jungar!! Don’t leave us!!! Maybe the Kings will win the Stanley Cup and the Lakers will win the NBA Championship and that will give you renewed hope the Dodgers can do the unimaginable even if their owner is an idiot.

I read you loud and clear jungar, ……….and I seriously don’t know who is going to pitch. I just know we have the best lineup in the league and we can’t win, and it’s not because we can’t score runs this season.

Before the season started I predicted Manny would be on the DL by June. I just had one of those suspicions based on what has happened in the past, not so much with him but with other players around his age. I did not think about the PED issue but just the law of averages. I certainly hoped I was wrong and hopefully this is just a minor set back for him and he will return in good form.

it’s not that I mind not being the best, but were going on three years now where heading into the year we knew what we needed and we haven’t gone out and gotten it. I bitch and moan like the rest of you about small stuff but this lack of top of the rotation pitching has been an issue now since McCourt took over.

Career At Bats – 8511 (.294)
Career At Bats in the two-hole – 243 (.284)

Career At Bats in the two-hole in 1994 – 0
Career At Bats in the two-hole in 1995 – 0
Career At Bats in the two-hole in 1996 – 32 (.344)
Career At Bats in the two-hole in 1997 – 9 (.111)
Career At Bats in the two-hole in 1998 – 49 (.265)
Career At Bats in the two-hole in 1999 – 43 (.233)
Career At Bats in the two-hole in 2000 – 1 (.000)
Career At Bats in the two-hole in 2001 – 0
Career At Bats in the two-hole in 2002 – 0
Career At Bats in the two-hole in 2003 – 0
Career At Bats in the two-hole in 2004 – 0
Career At Bats in the two-hole in 2005 – 0
Career At Bats in the two-hole in 2006 – 1 (.000)
Career At Bats in the two-hole in 2007 – 0
Career At Bats in the two-hole in 2008 – 90 (.344)
Career At Bats in the two-hole in 2009 – 8 (.125)
Career At Bats in the two-hole in 2010 – 10 (.200)

Of course, this doesn’t tell you if he started in that slot or if it was a pinch-hitting AB. The only pattern I see is that he hits well in the two-hole every 8 years, so in 2016 he should do well. Torre doesn’t base anything on statistics unless they back up whatever he chooses to do regardless. That’s when he’ll tell you it makes sense. I’m guessing that Torre remembers some game in ’96 against the Yankees when Anderson went 4 for 5.

Hi ITD
Well one our big hitters, 1/3 of the Dynamic Trio is on the DL.
Hope Manny heals well, he’s been hitting at his best lately.
That’s bad news, needless to say.
But we do have enough fire power left in the lineup.
It’s the bullpen, our pride and joy over the best few years, the backbone of this team, that’s hurting.
3 blown saves and 6 losses already this year, they hav’ta pick it up or we’re goners.
Heaeaeagerer, the knuckle baller, didn’t have it the last time out. Let’s hope he has it right tonight.
GO DODGERS!!!!!!!

Hey ITD bloggers. Quiet over on the MLB comment section so I’ll hang around with you this afternoon/evening. Bummer on Manny hitting up the DL but like some have commented, this is the risk of a 37-38 year old player at the twilight of his career playing OF in the NL. Looks at all of the other players his age or even younger that are DH’ing in the AL.

The positive is we will get to see GA play and bat a lot more. Still love that guy even though I never was an Angel fan.

Bummer on Haeger already giving up the leadoff triple and RBI in DC. Hopefully he 1. receives some decent run support tonight, 2. controls the knuckler and 3. lasts longer than 6 innings. I’d love to see the Charlie stay in there for 130-140 pitches or 7+ innings to give our bullpen a rest.

Hmmm, Blake Jr. almost looked safe there sliding into second to try to beat the force out.

I disagree, a knuckler has to mix it up with a few FBs and breakers. Keep tossing them the same knucklers every pitch and a few are bound to leave the ballpark. I’m still not convinced thought that AJ is the smartest catcher to be making the knuckler ball calls and catches.

Haeger settling in retiring the last 5 straight. But we really need to get the Blue Bats going again. It’s like Deja Vu all over again after the intro SF Friday game (10 run game) where we only scored 2 runs over the next 18 innings.

Atilano looking good with that 1-2-3 5th inning. What is it with us not being able to hit on these newbie pitchers? We did okay against Leakie boom boom down yesterday but can’t seem to get anything really going against this Luis rookie. Does videotape on past pitcher really make that big of a difference?

Hey, Kemp made a catch on the warning track… WITH HIS FEET ON THE GROUND.

Nice return 1-2-3 5th inning for Charlie!

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Re: 6th inning runners on 2nd and 3rd, 2 outs with AJ at the plate:

Sigh, rack up another 2 RLISP for the LA stats page. So far in 20 MLB AB’s, AJ is NOT our go-to-guy with the bat. But good to see Blake DeW get his first extra base hit of the season with that double…

I see Scott is talking crap about Anderson crappy obp in the 2nd hold I think he seen alot of Anderson and that career average almost over 300 no need to explain to him Eric just be lucky we don’t have Sweeney or else he would probably been in that spot.

I suppose one consolation we can take is since the Giants cooled off after ther quick start, no one in the Western Division is setting the world on fire. Have a great evening, everyone and keep the faith.

Hey old have you seen games like this before I think you have seen alot.

They should’ve had the Mets/Cards games on Fox. Did anyone see it? The Mets won it 2-1 and the Mets held Krod into the 19th innings and blown a saves. Tony LaRussa must have a lot of balls using Lopez and Mather yeah 2 position players that pitch and didn’t even start the game and had Lohse in LF and I never seen a box score this weird in my entire lifetime. I bet old have seen this plenty of time.

I will take all the blame Shad.
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Although I feel most of it should be laid at the feet of the ownership team of the Dodgers.
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I just figured that with throwing slowpitch softball pitches that our knuckleballer, who shouldn’t be on the team but the owners can’t figure out that they needed to get pitching, Dunn would crush them. I guess he did (How did you like that sentence!!) . I missed them as I was at work. I hate being correct.
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Glad to see the D cut down on the errors by only committing 1 for the game.
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Ortiz got lucky there after walking the bases loaded but are they ready to get rid of the dead weight that is on this team.
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I know it’s early in the season and for those that have folllowed me for the past few years I always post in a positive light and don’t toss in the season.
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I’m not feeling that this year. I think it’s pretty obvious 3 weeks into the season that this team isn’t a playoff team. Offensively we will hold our own. But the rest stinks and I don’t see it improving. I’m hoping at this point that we are far back cone the trading deadline ans are sellers. Sell Manny, Anderson, Belliard, R. Johnson, etc… And sell it all for pitching.
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Get rid of the Ortiz, Haeger and any of the other lame pitchers and bring up Jimmy Mac, Elbert, etc… and let them get a full season under their belt and see what they can do full time.
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It’s time to build for next year because we don’t have what it takes for this season.

I don’t blame any players for anything these games. They are who they are and we are going to have our bad games. However, like it has been said many, many, many, many times, it starts at the top, and the top needs to get his head out of his assssss and treat this team like he wants to win. We should have had pitching last season and we should have had pitching this season. I just can’t understand how an owner can allow the immense talent we have in this lineup to go to waste because he couldn’t or wouldn’t pay for a top of the rotation pitcher(s).

Frank McCourt, Frank McCourt,
Go back to Hyannisport,
Oh Frankie, F-f-Frank McCourt
So, what do you say? Sell the team now, Frank McCourt?

“Noooo
That’ll be the day that Bud says goodbye,
That’ll be the day that Big Papi cries,
They say I’m gonna leave, I know it’s a lie, ’cause
That’ll be the day that TeamCo-(LA Dodgers baseball team)-division-of-TeamCo-Holding-division-of-LA-HoldCo-division-of-LA-Partners-division-of-TMBLP-division-of-Jamie/Frank-McCourt-and-Entities… :: phew :: dies.”

Everyday, the fans are getting closer
To jumpin’ off this crumbling roller coaster
Pitching help will never come our way, a-hey, a-hey hey…

Everyday seems a little longer,
ERA’s not getting any stronger,
Never thought anyone would long for
Two thousand three…

“Lying, baiting, hoping the fans come back,
I just can’t seem to get the pitching off their mind
Lying, baiting, hoping, saying All-Is-Well
I need 3 million more fans before I can buy that property on Vine…”

What’s with this crony dissing my team?
Why does he gotta front?
What did we ever do to that guy
That runs our team on pocket lint

Oh no, We’ll go and score four runs
Oh no, then we’ll give up five
Oh no, happens every time

Oh-ee-oh, listening to Rick and Charlie
Saying the bullpen gave up 4 more
Frankie says “Who needs pitching aces, anyway,
I don’t care about that,
I don’t care about that.”

Bang, bang, 2 homers in the fourth,
Donnie picks Torre off the floor,
Fifth inning comes, what do we do?
Don’t look now, they scored another two.
I can’t watch, the arms won’t click,
“Wassamatta fans, are you feeling sick?
Wassamatta, wassamatta, wassamatta you?
Wassamatta fans, are you feeling blue?”

Happens every time…

Oh-ee-oh, listening to Rick and Charlie
Saying the bullpen gave up 4 more
Frankie says “Who needs pitching aces, anyway?
I don’t care about that.
I don’t care about that.
I don’t care about that.
I don’t care about that.”

Well said, Bear. I echo your sentiments 100%. I am going to have to attend one game (Andre’s bobblehead night), in support of HIM…..not FRANK. However, if I need Dodger merchandise, I know of a sources outside of Dodger Stadium, which I use all the time.
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I’ve also come to the conclusion that I can see the Dodgers play in SF for a much shorter ride, cheapr prices and, there are just as many Dodger fans there as there are Giant fans. Besides, thanks to Collie, we know how to park cheaply and, we don’t have to spend the night in an overpriced hotel.

Hi Guys and Gals
I’m surprised and happy of course that today’s game is being televised on MLB-TV, it’s usually blackedout at this time on Saturdays.
Well I know we all want to see the offense show the people on the east coast just what they can do, after being MIA last night.
I also like to see Loney hit one out for his 500th hit and Kershaw get himself another gem.
GO DODGERS!!!!!!.

btw old I wrote something to you after Harris made that running error but I guess you didn’t see it.

Last week the Mets/Cards should’ve been on Fox. The Mets won it 2-1 and the Mets held Krod into the 19th innings and blown a saves. Tony LaRussa must have a lot of balls using Lopez and Mather yeah 2 position players that pitch and didn’t even start the game and had Lohse in LF and I never seen a box score this weird in my entire lifetime. I want to know have you seen this lot.

Like Steve Lyon said, if Kemp had backed up the play where Martin threw the ball to second base into the field, this game would be over. Championship teams play good fundamental baseball including the little things like hustling to get into position to back up plays, even though most of the time it is not needed. Kemp is still getting by on his incredible athletic talent, not the baseball smart sense that some players of lesser ability possess.

Just got up to see the end of the game. I didn’t realize it was going to be televised. As mentioned by OBF usually they aren’t.
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Nice to see a lead. But I see we have 2 errors again. How can we keep committing these errors??? 20 errors through 17 games.

I hear you Bear the only thing is if he doesn’t and Coso blows it everybody would be calling for Joe’s head for not using your best (Brox) for a 4 out save.
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Joe should be able to go to Brox for 4 outs and have him be productive. That move wasn’t a bad one. I for one usually don’t like the 4 out save but with the way the bully has performed I understood it there.

Glad to see the boys tough it out today and get a much needed win. Nothing comes easy right now with Broxton blowing a save today.

It was mentioned above about not “blaming” the players for what is happening and while I generally do not playing the blame game, I feel a comment is in order. Yes, Joe has to play what he has and try to get the most out of each player. And I will agree he may not have as much to work with in regards to pitching as we would all like. However, I do feel the players need to take some responsibility for being under .500 at this time. Who is making all the errors? Who is throwing all the pitches in the dirt and running up pitch counts? I realize the hitting pace would not continue the way things started but what happened to all the hitting once the Dodgers got into Washington? What happened against the Reds? Will the Dodgers struggle against decent pitching or will they be able to make the necessary adjustments and get the clutch hits? This is all on the players, and I would guess they are just as aware of these things as we are.

Good afternoon, early evening everyone????
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I have been super busy, studying and working so I am a little behind on what?s been going on, both here and on the field. I did have the pleasure of watching today?s game on Prime Ticket and enjoyed it immensely. Kershaw did a fantastic job keeping the game in check, he struggled just a tad I thought getting a good feel for the curve but at other times it was spot on. That big sweeper is a great compliment to the 90+ fastball, and I thought I seen a few very well timed and executed change ups. Clayton when you do these things well as you did today. You have me smiling in admiration for your wonderful display of talent. Good Job!!
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Casey Blake!! What can I say here, other than, Fantastic day at the Plate and in assisting with the game saving play at third?..Excellent Job!!
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I haven?t seen all the comments on here this week, but I will agree that the players shoulder some of the burden?..actually at this point they shoulder a lot of it. They are on the field, as I say there are no excuses, just results. And these guy?s need to do what it took to get those results. Plenty of teams have struggled at the start and bounced back. The Phillie?s where this club last season, the Yankees and Red Sox have been in the past as well. Just as the rookie ( Monasterios did on the mound today to close out the game) these guys need to maintain there composure and play to the ability the possess.
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Monasterios… I tip my hat to you sir?..That was a big time performance on such short notice. You have my admiration as well. I look forward to seeing you progress as a member of this ball club. And just like Dewitt, I think you deserve to go through some growing pains worry free. Speaking of which DeWitt in my mind has done a fabulous job in Hudson?s place at second, and with so much upside in years to come I am glad to see this transpire. I loved Hudson?s game , however DeWitt is lovable as well?.Good job!! DeWitt and Monasterios!!
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Well its that time again back to the books?..See ya all later have a great evening and great Sunday J
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LET?S GO DODGERS,LET?S GO!!!
BRING THE RING TO CHAVEZ RAVINE!!!

Great victory today by the Boys In Blue! The bully did well which is great to see!!
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But it seems this year we are snake bit. Every day we seem to have a W we still get bad news. Hopefully someone will come up and produce in his abscence.

In reading the article about Padilla we are very very thin in the pitching department. Link might not be able to be called up since he hasn’t been away for 10 days. In addition J-Mac is also on the DL. Towers & Lindblom are options but they aren’t on the 40 Man Roster. I’m guessing it will be Elbert. But what if Sherrill also goes on her since he left the game due to injury? Yikes!!

Good Morning ITD readers and writers!!! Let’s hope to get two in a row this morning!!!

lbirken – I am the one that mentioned that I don’t blame the players. I was mostly referring to the pitchers, not so much the position players. I lay plenty of blame on the players for bonehead plays, and the errors are very irritating this year. However, I also feel that “most” of the time, those errors weren’t the reason we lost the game either. Now, in yesterday’s game if we had lost, yep, I would have definitely thought it was costly errors that were to blame and not the pitching. The pitching was actually what saved us yesterday………………..that and Casey Blake.

Northstateblues – fabulous song the other day. I read it late the other night, and then I wasn’t able to comment due to our time warping, submission error issues.

Monestarious definitely earned alot of accolades yesterday for pushing through those innings yesterday and getting the win. It was good to see the bullpen keep us in the game.

Good Sunday Morning Everyone………….
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Adversity is a state of hardship, or misfortune.
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?Adversity is a fact of life. It can’t be controlled. What we can control is how we react to it.?
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Good luck isn’t needed……..Good Warriors are…………
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CARPE DIEM BOY’S!!!!!!!!!!!
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LET’S GO DODGERS, LET’S GO!!!!!!!!!!

Okay – as I am reading my post to lbirken. Now, it appears I don’t blame the pitchers for their pitching. I do think they are just as responsible in getting the job done. However, we knew all through spring training that some of the pitchers weren’t going to get us to the next level, and so far it is ture. My initial comment was about how they are who they are and I blame our owner for not getting us the pitching we deserve.

These guys work 3 hours a day. An extra hour or two taking batting practice and doing something they love and getting paid millions. Why is Joe sitting the best players? The first inning would have been different with Andre in there.
And we can’t score runs with one out and bases loaded.
Come on.

MILWAUKEE — A spectator fell about 14 feet from the lower level in left field while the Cubs took batting practice about an hour before their game with the Brewers.

The man wearing Cubs gear and believed to be in his 20s was reaching out over the railing down the left field line attempting to catch foul balls on Sunday when he tumbled headfirst over the rail and onto the hard dirt below.

Brewers spokesman Tyler Barnes said privacy laws prevented them from releasing any detailed information about the person or the incident but called the event extremely rare.

“He was observed by fans after the fall moving all his extremities,” Barnes said.

Brewers head athletic trainer Roger Caplinger said the man was cut and bleeding from the face, but was conscious as he was taken off the field by emergency first responders. He was taken to a local hospital, but there were no immediate details on additional injuries.

Several Cubs players went over to see what had happened, and the incident held up batting practice for about 10 minutes.

Note to self again – remember never to buy tickets for Sunday or day games. It certainly isn’t worth the money. The excuse that Andre needs a day off to rest his ankle (fine), but also adding there is a lefty pitching is getting old. He is batting .500 against lefties right now. It is just Joe being Joe, and that is getting old too.

Hi’Ya Beav!! How’ya doin my brother? Right now our team is very disappointing and quite Frankly, pathetic. When you consistantly leave runners at third with less than 2 outs, you’re screwed. At least Billz pitched well. Blake and Belliard had 10 LOB today. Unacceptable to say the least!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hi’Ya North!! I’m not very optimistic about this teams chances of making the playoffs right now. It is still very early and there is time to get this wagon turned in the right direction. Outstanding song earlier my friend. Kudos!!!

What can you say about this team? The fundamentals are horrible. Guess it’s tough to work on that stuff in Spring Training when you split the squad and take half to the Orient. But whatever. Maybe Frank and Jamie split a nice check from the whole affair. Luckily, this division is horrible and no one team will assert itself, so the Dodgers can relax. But it still bugs me that Frank would settle for the mediocrity that Ned + no cash equals. What a loser of an owner. And by the way, Joe…Carroll, Anderson and Johnson are hitting a combined .213, so by all means sit the regulars as much as possible.

I think Joe’s an idiot! Andre is our hottest hitter right now and, of course, he gives him a day off in favor of .155 hitting GA! Our pitching the last two days looked much better and he still must enjoy our losing. I am with Nellyjune….NEVER, EVER GO TO A DAY GAME ……AND ESPECIALLY A SUNDAY!!!!!

I will repeat I am tired of reading Andre needs rest due to his ankle or he can’t hit lefties. Other than Manny, who is not playing right now, He still has the best batting average and OBP on the team and his batting average against lefties right now is .500. ANDRE does not need rest. He may have not had the best of days these past series, but other than Casey Blake, who did? Nobody.

I usually and most often get to Cincinnati to watch the Dodgers for a couple of games each year. Probably would go to more if they came here more often. They are coming back here in June, and, If we continue to play this pathetic brand of baseball, I most likely will not go. OK, you got me, I probably will go anyway because I love day baseball and my Dodgers!!! More importantly, it is fun way to spend a day with my dad and nephews.

Hi, Jhall. It really is a shame that Joe does these stupid things. I don’t remmber him sitting Arod or Jeter when he was coaching the Yankees. The New York fans would have had him drawn and quartered! I guess he figures the L.A. fans don’t know much and, no matter what, they will come.

Shad – In NASCAR, the only drivers I don’t want to see win are Juan Pablo Montoya (he’s a big crybaby IMO), and Brad Keslowski (don’t like his style of crashing drivers on purpose, in particularly mine). Denny is by far my favorite driver right now. To me, especially this season, he is like the Andre of NASCAR. He is trying to move over obstacles people thought he couldn’t, and he is doing a mighty fine job of doing that so far IMO. He respects and admires Jimmie and wants to be like him, and you certainly can’t fault him for that (who wouldn’t), and he has learned not to blame others when things go badly.

Also on a gnats note Shad – soooo very glad they lost today. I am going to have to be a Phillies Phan for three days now.

This is a quote I tool from over at LA Times.. It is IMO a very good post.
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“It was obvious coming into the season that starting pitching, usually the Dodgers forte, was going to be mediocre at best. Now with Padilla on the DL and shaky performances from the rest of the rotation its time for McCourt to “put up or shut up”.. Last fall this team was 3 wins from the Fall Classic, and no front line starter was acquired. If a competent starter is not acquired now his commitment, financially and otherwise, should be seriously questioned, as should fan support!!!”

Andre – I would like to say a few things. 1) I was a fan the day you were traded from the A’s to the Dodgers. 2) I apologize for saying anything negative about JP, and I won’t ever again. However, in my defense, I think most of us were defending you because we thought you should be Everyday Dre’, which meant you should be playing every day. 3) You are an awesome ballplayer, try not to be too hard on yourself (your fans love you regardless), and I think the mom’s think you are good looking too – lol!!! It’s something about your eyes Andre, it really is.

One more thing………….I read the ESPN article that featured Andre and Jake Peavy. It was an awesome article that captured a single at bat that and Andre and Jake told their side of what their thought process was during the at-bat. Andre lost the battle, but it was a great insight into what a pitcher and a batter is thinking.

I just want you to know that no matter how bad this team does at times, I still love watching them play. I think of this ITD family everytime I listen or watch a game. There are times when they frustrate me because I want them to win so badly, there are times I feel so badly for them because of the circumstance their owner has put them in, and there are times when I just love them no matter what.

It has surely been a roller coaster month for me. Earlier in the month, one of my best friends lost her dad suddenly, we found out a mom of one of Michael’s teammates had a stroke at the game on Wednesday night and lost the battle today………..she was only 47, and I have lost two of our cherished pets (dogs) in the span of 4 weeks as well, one being just yesterday. My hubby decided two weeks ago to get two new dogs, (and DodgerEric, I totally understand the frustration of coming home to find your floor covered in materials…………….. mine being all my Dodger Magazines I have collected over the past couple of years, a couple of Dodger books which were taken out to the backyard, a blanket and a variety of shoes, flip flops and slippers. I don’t know whether to think it’s because Shadow (the two year old puppy) loves the Dodgers and wanted to read all about them or is a Giants fan. I will choose to think he’s a Dodger fan for now – lol!!) All this is just reminders that you need to take the time everyday to show love to all those you care about and to make sure you make the best of what life has to offer.

I love watching the Dodgers and no matter how frustrating they may be at times, it is definitely a great escape from the everyday routines of life.

Took a quick break from studying, and wanted to say….. Great Post Nelly.
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Losing loved ones is tough, having been down similiar roads myself, I understand the pain all too well. I will say two things that may help someday. Things will get better, although in different ways….. and thoughts and prayers are with the grieving individuals. They will always be a part of you, maybe more so in absense.
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Good Night Everyone, and God Bless
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GO DODGERS!!!!

Thank you Dodger4life!!!! ……………..for more than you can know at times. I know you think it’s the other way around, but I believe what God chooses to put in our path is always for a purpose. Sometimes I have no idea what that purpose is, but I guess that is where faith comes in.
GO DODGERS!!!!! I am watching the Speed Channel, and Jimmie and Jeff are not getting along so well right now….tsk, tsk, tsk……………..they need to learn how to get along better :))

Hey Nelly . . . I am so sorry about your losses. I’ve also experienced them and although I miss my loved ones, I’ve been enriched by how they touched my life and thank God for them every day.
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On the light side, thank you for the two links about Andre and Bills.
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BTW, I think Shadow has good taste – and yes, that was meant to make you laugh.
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Take care my friend!

Sparkleplenty – no doubt about how they have enriched my life:))) …………and you are most welcome for the articles. I am trying to find the other one on-line about Andre and Jake Peavy, but no luck so far. Also, that did make me laugh.

Pitching is the name of the game.
Otherwise, how do you explain a team that’s tops in batting average, 20 hits above the next place team, 2nd in runs scored, 5th in home runs and 3 games behndin already this short season.
Our defense and pitching have hurt. Here’s a team that should be 4 or 5 games out in front.

Shad – Unless it were going to prevent the Phillies from winning their division AND the Giants are already out of it in the west, I can’t root for the Giants. The Giant-side of my family would do the same thing.

Boblee – other than these last couple of games, it’s been all about pitching and defense IMO.

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