"If we had people where the bullets were going in the opposite direction, right smack between the eyes of this maniac, that would have been a beautiful, beautiful sight, folks."
-- Donald Trump on Orlando shooting

"No one thinks that people should go into a nightclub drinking and carrying firearms. That defies common sense. It also defies the law."
-- chief NRA lobbyist Chris W. Cox

"I don't think you should have firearms where people are drinkiing."
-- NRA CEO Wayne LaPierre

(21-06-2016 07:15 AM)Brian37 Wrote: You are responding just like the church did when Galileo told the truth about the solar system. You are responding just like car companies did when Nader rightfully pointed out how unsafe care designs are. You are responding just like creationists do when you tell them it is bullshit. Nope sorry asshole, our gun death problem isn't going to be solved with do nothing or more guns. If you don't like my word choice, fuck you. I don't want anyone dead, nor do I have any desire of getting violent with anyone. But I am not going to sugar coat anything just to coddle your bullshit insecurities.

You must be confusing me with someone else as I have only had generally calm, reasonable, fact-based firearms discussions here.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.

(21-06-2016 07:30 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote: "If we had people where the bullets were going in the opposite direction, right smack between the eyes of this maniac, that would have been a beautiful, beautiful sight, folks."
-- Donald Trump on Orlando shooting

"No one thinks that people should go into a nightclub drinking and carrying firearms. That defies common sense. It also defies the law."
-- chief NRA lobbyist Chris W. Cox

"I don't think you should have firearms where people are drinkiing."
-- NRA CEO Wayne LaPierre

Yea so what, Wayne mimics some "Cooperation"...... Yep same bullshit GOP tactic we see on other issues. GOP now knows it cant get away with straight out "don't tax the rich", so now they try to mimic the left with "we like minorities" and "we want more jobs for workers", but it is just more bullshit.

Ok, Wayne thinks bars and guns is a bad combo, no shit. So are mentally ill and guns and so are terrorists and guns.

So if Wayne is so concerned with separating booze and guns, where is his condemnation, or more to the point, LOUD condemnation of what Governor Nikki Haley just did in allowing bars to allow guns? "As long as you don't drink"......... HA, if the bar owner cant see the concealed weapon, how do they know who is drinking and not drinking?

And how would such a law stop the Texas Bar shootout that left 9 dead? I am quite sure a few of the shooters even in that case were sober.

(21-06-2016 07:15 AM)Brian37 Wrote: You are responding just like the church did when Galileo told the truth about the solar system. You are responding just like car companies did when Nader rightfully pointed out how unsafe care designs are. You are responding just like creationists do when you tell them it is bullshit. Nope sorry asshole, our gun death problem isn't going to be solved with do nothing or more guns. If you don't like my word choice, fuck you. I don't want anyone dead, nor do I have any desire of getting violent with anyone. But I am not going to sugar coat anything just to coddle your bullshit insecurities.

You must be confusing me with someone else as I have only had generally calm, reasonable, fact-based firearms discussions here.

(21-06-2016 07:30 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote: "If we had people where the bullets were going in the opposite direction, right smack between the eyes of this maniac, that would have been a beautiful, beautiful sight, folks."
-- Donald Trump on Orlando shooting

"No one thinks that people should go into a nightclub drinking and carrying firearms. That defies common sense. It also defies the law."
-- chief NRA lobbyist Chris W. Cox

"I don't think you should have firearms where people are drinkiing."
-- NRA CEO Wayne LaPierre

Yea so what, Wayne mimics some "Cooperation"...... Yep same bullshit GOP tactic we see on other issues. GOP now knows it cant get away with straight out "don't tax the rich", so now they try to mimic the left with "we like minorities" and "we want more jobs for workers", but it is just more bullshit.

Ok, Wayne thinks bars and guns is a bad combo, no shit. So are mentally ill and guns and so are terrorists and guns.

So if Wayne is so concerned with separating booze and guns, where is his condemnation, or more to the point, LOUD condemnation of what Governor Nikki Haley just did in allowing bars to allow guns? "As long as you don't drink"......... HA, if the bar owner cant see the concealed weapon, how do they know who is drinking and not drinking?

And how would such a law stop the Texas Bar shootout that left 9 dead? I am quite sure a few of the shooters even in that case were sober.

(21-06-2016 05:23 AM)Chas Wrote: What were the rates prior to the buy back?

I couldn't find any statistics for gun-related homicides prior to our 1996 buyback, but the latest comparative figures are 1 per 1,000 population in Australia, versus 11 per 1,000 in the US. Although I'd like to point out that it's the decrease of 59% (as of 2013) in the rate of homicides that's the critical factor, rather than the raw number.

Quote:Did the overall homicide rate fall as much as the firearm homicide rate?

Death by bladed weapons remained static, so the answer is yes. From 1979 to 1996, 11,110 Australians died by firearm—an average of 617 per year. In the seven years after the 1996 gun laws were implemented (1997 to 2003) the yearly average nearly halved to 331.

Quote:Do you think Australian society and U.S. society are equivalent in all other factors?

No, not necessarily, although it's difficult I guess to make direct comparisons. Two of the main differentiators would be firearm ownership rates and religion.

Quote:How does one correct for the differences?

Shut down the American NRA and compulsorily acquire and destroy all the (former) member's firearms? That'd take maybe 12 million guns out of circulation in one fell swoop.

Quote:OK. Since the buy back was voluntary, those were self-selected households. What effect would that have on the statistics?

It was indeed voluntary via a 12-month moratorium, but after that, if you were (are) found in possession of a prohibited firearm according to the new legislation (Section 7A of the Firearms Act 1996), the maximum penalty could be 5 years imprisonment. In addition, if you make a false declaration in order to get a firearms license, the maximum penalty could be 10 years imprisonment. Ouch.

I don't believe that "self-selection" would affect the buyback one way or the other. Obviously criminals wouldn't hand over their guns, regardless of it being voluntary or compulsory.