Nothing wrong with today's cartoons but I was wondering. Back in the 2000s we had shows like Samurai Jack, Avatar, and Clone Wars.

I am curious why is there less cartoons that are as serious as those old shows.

Are today's parents more protective? Are today's animators and producers less interested in serious themes? Is it culture? Since the world is becoming scarier people want more escapist lighthearted entertainment? Or do people watch a lot less TV? Are young people who would be the target demographic of this type of show spending time playing video games instead of TV?

Should Nickelodeon and Cartoon Network make something to compete with Star Wars Rebels and Voltron?

Well as someone who was bought up on stuff like Bugs Bunny, Tom and Jerry and Wylie Coyote and the Roadrunner and turned out to be a relatively normal person, why those classic cartoons aren't shown on TV any more.

Catfood220:Well as someone who was bought up on stuff like Bugs Bunny, Tom and Jerry and Wylie Coyote and the Roadrunner and turned out to be a relatively normal person, why those classic cartoons aren't shown on TV any more.

Can't beat Looney Tunes' golden age of animation- though I maintain the 80s and especially the 90s came bloody close to doing so...

I dunno man, we still got some serious themes at play in the shows that aren't largely comedy based. You definitely could say though that we don't have nearly as many action series as we used to, which I blame on the big networks hugging their cash cows, however forced they may be.

Catfood220:Well as someone who was bought up on stuff like Bugs Bunny, Tom and Jerry and Wylie Coyote and the Roadrunner and turned out to be a relatively normal person, why those classic cartoons aren't shown on TV any more.

Because they weren't that good. Also, probably cant make as much money out of them

I assume it had to do with a change in trends... doesn't mean it doesn't entirely work, though. Seriously, anyone else miss their good action cartoons?

These guys might explain things better than I can...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

Leg End:I dunno man, we still got some serious themes at play in the shows that aren't largely comedy based.

Canadamus Prime:I don't know, I haven't really watched many current day cartoons, but I'm given to understand that some of them touch on some heavy topics.

Yeah, a lot of cartoons airing now tackle some pretty intense topics. For one example, Steven Universe, flawed as it is, has been going to some serious places since the second half of its first season. The last few episodes in particular collectively had a theme of "even after horrible things happen, life needs to go on." Adventure Time has the Ice King's backstory and his connection to Marceline. Gravity Falls got intense by the finale; I was genuinely in tears.The recent trend of having a show start out as a lighthearted comedy but gradually introduce darker elements works really well in my opinion, because you already like the characters by the time shit hits the fan, so you care more about what happens to them.

I think the difference is in sentimentality. A lot of shows in the early 2000's, even the comedies, lacked any sort of pathos for the characters. A lot of the time, you were watching people suffer horrible misfortune with no real punchline aside from the misfortune itself. Ed, Edd & Eddy is a good example: the Eds aren't the best people, but you spend so much time with them, watching them fail and suffer over and over again, that by the end you just want the writers to throw them a freaking bone. It stops being funny and just becomes uncomfortable. See also: The Grim Adventures of Billy & Mandy.

Silentpony:We also had Sheep in the Big City, Invader Din, Sponge Bob and Robot Chicken. It wasn't like we grew up in some grimdark golden age.

Actually you didn't. That would have been the 90's. Go watch Mighty Max and ExoSquad sometime.Not to mention Starship troopers.

It's not that today's cartoons are lighthearted. It's just that they are all unigrade. I.e they don't have much variation. It's easier to go for the random-humor non-sequituer route because you don't have to be consistent, or think about what came before and what came after.

Avatar and CLonewars , and many like them are shows where there was an over arching continuity and quest. That means you have to maintain a tone and a consistency with theme.

Silentpony:We also had Sheep in the Big City, Invader Din, Sponge Bob and Robot Chicken. It wasn't like we grew up in some grimdark golden age.

Actually you didn't. That would have been the 90's. Go watch Mighty Max and ExoSquad sometime.Not to mention Starship troopers.

It's not that today's cartoons are lighthearted. It's just that they are all unigrade. I.e they don't have much variation. It's easier to go for the random-humor non-sequituer route because you don't have to be consistent, or think about what came before and what came after.

Avatar and CLonewars , and many like them are shows where there was an over arching continuity and quest. That means you have to maintain a tone and a consistency with theme.

What? The 90s were cheesy as fuck! Tiny Toons, Freakazoid, Animaiacs, Pup Named Scooby Doo, Pinkie and the Brain, Dexter's Lab! Come on, the 90s weren't grimdark either. Might as well say it was the 80s because of Transformers, GI Joe and Thundercats!

The cartoons that are made are a product of the people who made them, hence why Regular Show and Teen Titans Go! casually reference to 80's stuff like VHS or Master Systems like they never went out of style.

To get into a network I assume these people must be 25+, so the people in charge are going to replicate the shows they saw on their childhood, combined with the tastes they have now, like anime. The cartoons of the early 2000's are probably from people that lived on the 70's where it's either Hanna Barbara, shows based on products or whatever else was on air.

My theory is that the variety of those times for the sake of toy sales created diversity, so this is why you rarely would see characters that are 'pallete swaps' of each other, and the fans of those shows made sure their characters nowadays have unique silhouetes and color schemes like KND or Invader Zim.

The answer to just about every "why are cartoons today more/less X than yesteryear's?" is almost always "because you're cherry-picking examples/blinded by nostalgia/don't actually know what you're talking about."

I don't know MLP:FIM literally had an episode about a character self flagellating to punish herself for past deeds.

We are actually getting darker cartoons but they tend to be with just specific episodes and not the show as a whole. I mean take Steven Universe, on the surface it seems really light hearted but it gets pretty deep and heavy with themes of loss, ptsd, impact of war, etc etc.

And an honorable mention to Ultimate Spiderman, 90s Spiderman, X-Men, the rest of the DCAU, Avatar the Last Airbender and Teen Titans aswell.

Even the more cartoonier looking shows like Butch Hartmann's work, Genndy Tartakovsky, and Spongebob and Kim Possible, etc. look way better than cartoons now. With the sole exception I will give to My Little Pony Friendship is Magic.

Heck American Dad and Simpsons still looks better than new adult animated sitcoms.

undeadsuitor:how come when people list stuff like "cartoons used to look better than the trash we have now", they list several examples of stuff they like but leave "the cartoons running now" blank?

Are we just supposed to fill the blank in with the obvious "all new shows are Teen Titans GO" answer everything is leading to?

Because from my childhood experiance and tastes, they were better than they are now.

Let me list the shows in Cartoon Network after the last decent cartoon from the channel, Foster's Home for Imaginary Frieds (And that show has its own problems looking back in hindsight, I.E. Mean Spiritedness) and I am excluding shows like DC cartoons and Scooby Doo, and Transformers and what have you because I feel they are not truly part of "Cartoon Network" and just guest shows to a host channel.

Mid to Late 2000sPHA+VGhlIExpZmUgb2YgVGltZXMgb2YgSnVuaXBlciBMZWUsIEtpbSBQb3NzaWJsZSB3YXMgYmV0dGVyIGFuZCBvdmVyYWxsIHRoZSBzaG93IGZlbHQgZ2VuZXJpYy48L3A+CjxwPkNhbXAgTGF6bG93LCBBdmVyYWdlIGFuZCBGaWxsZXIgYW5kIEJvcmluZy48L3A+CjxwPk15IEd5bSBQYXJ0bmVyJ3MgYSBNb25rZXksIHRoZSBzYW1lIGFzIENhbXAgTGF6bG93LjwvcD4KPHA+QmVuIDEwIGZyYW5jaGlzZSwgdGhlIGZpcnN0IDMgc2hvd3Mgb2YgaXQgd2VyZSBncmVhdCBhbmQgdGhlIG9ubHkgZGVjZW50IHRoaW5nIHRvIGNvbWUgb3V0IG9mIENOIGF0IHRoZSB0aW1lLjwvcD4KPHA+U3F1aXJyZWwgQm95LCBGaWxsZXIgYW5kIEJvcmluZzwvcD4KPHA+Q2hvd2RlciwgRGlzZ3VzdGluZy48L3A+CjxwPlRoZSBNYXJ2ZWxvdXMgTWlzYWR2ZW50dXJlcyBvZiBGbGFwamFjaywgaGFkIHNvbWV0aGluZyBnb2luZyBmb3IgaXQsIGJ1dCB0aGUgYXJ0IHdhcyBqdXN0IHRvbyBkaXNndXN0aW5nIGZvciBtZSB0byB3YXRjaCBpdC48L3A+CjxwPlRoZSBTZWNyZXQgU2F0dXJkYXlzLCBoYXZlbid0IHNlZW4gaXQgdGhhdCBtdWNoIGJ1dCBpdCBsb29rIGludGVyZXN0aW4sIGRpZG4ndCBnaXZlIGl0IHRoYXQgbXVjaCBhIGNoYW5jZS48L3A+CjxwPkFuZCBkb24ndCBnZXQgbWUgc3RhcnRlZCBvbiB0aGUgTGl2ZSBBY3Rpb24gU2hvd3MuLi4uZXJnaC48L3A+

Kotaro:I think the difference is in sentimentality. A lot of shows in the early 2000's, even the comedies, lacked any sort of pathos for the characters. A lot of the time, you were watching people suffer horrible misfortune with no real punchline aside from the misfortune itself. Ed, Edd & Eddy is a good example: the Eds aren't the best people, but you spend so much time with them, watching them fail and suffer over and over again, that by the end you just want the writers to throw them a freaking bone. It stops being funny and just becomes uncomfortable. See also: The Grim Adventures of Billy & Mandy.

Yeah, eventually you start feeling bad for the character. It's like Charlie Brown. His life is a never ending series of failures and disappointments. I want to see him win, just once.

Samtemdo8:I do think Animation and Art Quality has degraded over the years.

I miss the days when cartoons looked like this:

And an honorable mention to Ultimate Spiderman, 90s Spiderman, X-Men, the rest of the DCAU, Avatar the Last Airbender and Teen Titans aswell.

Even the more cartoonier looking shows like Butch Hartmann's work, Genndy Tartakovsky, and Spongebob and Kim Possible, etc. look way better than cartoons now. With the sole exception I will give to My Little Pony Friendship is Magic.

Heck American Dad and Simpsons still looks better than new adult animated sitcoms.

We're kinda talking about quality of the writing, not the animation. Also Ultimate Spider-Man has good animation, but its pretty awful to sit through.

Simpsons should have ended a while ago, American Dad is hit or miss, Ben 10: Alien Force is really not very good, '90s Spider-Man has aged, but its still enjoyable. I love the rest. Well, except MLP. I don't watch it.

Leg End:I dunno man, we still got some serious themes at play in the shows that aren't largely comedy based.

Canadamus Prime:I don't know, I haven't really watched many current day cartoons, but I'm given to understand that some of them touch on some heavy topics.

Yeah, a lot of cartoons airing now tackle some pretty intense topics. For one example, Steven Universe, flawed as it is, has been going to some serious places since the second half of its first season. The last few episodes in particular collectively had a theme of "even after horrible things happen, life needs to go on." Adventure Time has the Ice King's backstory and his connection to Marceline. Gravity Falls got intense by the finale; I was genuinely in tears.The recent trend of having a show start out as a lighthearted comedy but gradually introduce darker elements works really well in my opinion, because you already like the characters by the time shit hits the fan, so you care more about what happens to them.

I think the difference is in sentimentality. A lot of shows in the early 2000's, even the comedies, lacked any sort of pathos for the characters. A lot of the time, you were watching people suffer horrible misfortune with no real punchline aside from the misfortune itself. Ed, Edd & Eddy is a good example: the Eds aren't the best people, but you spend so much time with them, watching them fail and suffer over and over again, that by the end you just want the writers to throw them a freaking bone. It stops being funny and just becomes uncomfortable. See also: The Grim Adventures of Billy & Mandy.

undeadsuitor:how come when people list stuff like "cartoons used to look better than the trash we have now", they list several examples of stuff they like but leave "the cartoons running now" blank?

Are we just supposed to fill the blank in with the obvious "all new shows are Teen Titans GO" answer everything is leading to?

Because from my childhood experiance and tastes, they were better than they are now.

Let me list the shows in Cartoon Network after the last decent cartoon from the channel, Foster's Home for Imaginary Frieds (And that show has its own problems looking back in hindsight, I.E. Mean Spiritedness) and I am excluding shows like DC cartoons and Scooby Doo, and Transformers and what have you because I feel they are not truly part of "Cartoon Network" and just guest shows to a host channel.

Mid to Late 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

So yeah, 1 or 2 decent shows, a fuck load of filler/boring shows, and shows that are just absolutely horrendous to watch, and shows that are just not for me.

So what the hell am I left with in Cartoon Network?

I liked Camp Lazlo I enjoy the first Ben 10, but the whole franchise hasn't aged well since I rewatched it a few months back. Squirrel Boy was awfulChowder was kinda hit or missI hated Marvelous Misadventures of Flapjack because its really not funny and the animation is just ugly to look at.Secret Saturdays was a lot of funDidn't care for the live action shows

Generator Rex was alrightI loved Regular ShowSym-Bionic Titan was amazing and still mad it got cancelledThe Problem Solverz is the equivalent of seizure inducing garbage. Secret Mountain Fort Awesome was garbageUncle Grandpa was stupid Over the Garden Wall is amazingAdventure Time I enjoyed its earlier seasons. Amazing World of Gumball - surprisingly I didn't like its 1st season, but I did watch its later episodes. Honestly? Its current stuff is kinda great. I love Steven Universe and I don't even use Tumblr. Clarence was dumb We Bare Bears is cute funPowerpuff Girls reboot is really shit

undeadsuitor:how come when people list stuff like "cartoons used to look better than the trash we have now", they list several examples of stuff they like but leave "the cartoons running now" blank?

Are we just supposed to fill the blank in with the obvious "all new shows are Teen Titans GO" answer everything is leading to?

Because from my childhood experiance and tastes, they were better than they are now.

Let me list the shows in Cartoon Network after the last decent cartoon from the channel, Foster's Home for Imaginary Frieds (And that show has its own problems looking back in hindsight, I.E. Mean Spiritedness) and I am excluding shows like DC cartoons and Scooby Doo, and Transformers and what have you because I feel they are not truly part of "Cartoon Network" and just guest shows to a host channel.

Mid to Late 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

undeadsuitor:how come when people list stuff like "cartoons used to look better than the trash we have now", they list several examples of stuff they like but leave "the cartoons running now" blank?

Are we just supposed to fill the blank in with the obvious "all new shows are Teen Titans GO" answer everything is leading to?

Because from my childhood experiance and tastes, they were better than they are now.

Let me list the shows in Cartoon Network after the last decent cartoon from the channel, Foster's Home for Imaginary Frieds (And that show has its own problems looking back in hindsight, I.E. Mean Spiritedness) and I am excluding shows like DC cartoons and Scooby Doo, and Transformers and what have you because I feel they are not truly part of "Cartoon Network" and just guest shows to a host channel.

Mid to Late 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

Ignoring the amount of 'muh shows' going on here, and the level of cherry picking and needless sniping-

Steven Universe (already mentioned but screw you) deals with issues of sex and sexuality, oppression, PTSD, abusive relationships, and grief in ways that kids could understand while being entertaining to both them and adults.

Legend of Korra likewise dealt with PTSD for basically the entire fourth season, as well as questions like 'what is more important, freedom or safety?' and was all around more serious than Last Airbender, just in general.

Star Vs The Forces of Evil took a minute but has dealt with issues of gender identity, youth empowerment and the issues in generational gaps, and lately has more and more been hitting on the theme of race relations, up to and including literal segregation and apartheid.

Adventure Time has been dealing less with serious topics and more the complicated lives of the characters involved. I really couldn't do them justice by summing up anything, but just trust me when I say it DOES touch on serious topics, and even then rarely loses it's lighthearted touch.

Gravity Falls also falls into the same category as Adventure Time, I'd say, except they didn't take long to ramp up the conflicts and they ended in two seasons instead of ten like Adventure Time when it ends this year.

And of course if we're going full grimdark and not just 'serious shows' or 'serious topics', watch the new Samurai Jack. They had blood instead of just robot oil. Pretty good, even if the final episode was sadly kind of derp.

In short: Stop bitching about how 'oh this generation-'. I personally dislike most 80s cartoons but that doesn't mean there's anything inherently wrong with Transformers, G.I. Joe, or Thundercats, simply a matter of taste.

I loved The Maxx and Aeon Flux as a kid, but that being said equally mature themes can be found in Adventure Time. If anything, the fact that shows like Adventure Time and so much of modern animation now can tap into a multiple of age ranges suggests a deepening complexity and relationship to consumed media.

The Maxx, whether in its original media form or its adaptation to the screen was definitely not for kids. It had incredibly dark scenes and it relied on that dark, veiled storytelling to communicate the ideaof this loss of identity and self under the crushing reality of poverty and social stigma and the battles we create for ourselves in day-to-day life.

And shows like Adventure Time can tell equally bleak, equally dark themes of varying accessibility whether young or old viewers is a sign of that evolving idea of narrative. It's not as hamfistedly dark ... which is kind of a problem I find with concepts of Grimdark garbage lore and worldbuilding that you get with things like 40K. A videogame like Papers, Please is fair more terrifying and soul crushing without (too much) blood or open violence simply because we can see it happening now ... it reminds us that as a society we're either living it as individuals, or about 1 or 2 steps away from living if we have the privilege to be without it now ...

All without high fantasy elements like daemons and space elves.

My Little Pony with a single song and reprise tells a truly heartwrenching tale of the realities of the alienation of one person's work through systems of capitalist production and what you might have to potentially sacrifice if you want to save some of your soul in the process. How it destroys not only the worker, but inspiration and artistry on its own ... and yet somehow Hasbro didn't pull the plug. All packaged in a bright, colourful, somewhat comedic and catchy fashion ... right up until you recognize what the moment is trying to imply. And that one song probably has saved you an hour interpreting Entfremdung theory by giving you a direct (if fanciful) example.

Also subliminal condition for the young'un to join with whatever incarnation of the CNT for true proletariat friendship ...

I digress ... frankly if yu rely on blood and death to tell an impactfully bleak or heroic tale of the human condition striving to see itself through its agency and the struggle for one's own self-building, you're probably not a good storyteller.

That's not to say you can't have blood and gore and death if you enjoy those themes, but that's solidly worldbuilding ... not a question as to its emotional weight or impact, or its intellectual designs.

'Adult' shouldn't be shorthand for bloody or vicious... because frankly something like the Dynasty Warriors series is lighthearted and that has you murderizing thousands of people. Sorry ... 'K.O.ing' thousands of people willy nilly with massive weapons no human could conceivably wield well. To put it bluntly ... a game like Dark Souls tells a pretty bleak story regardless of your character's agency. I would argue it doesn't tell a very good story ... in fact the only decent storied (not merely lore, not merely character vignettes, actual overbranching story) Dark Souls game was DS2...

But the story wasn't more bleak or more adult by carrying the biggest murder-death weapon in the game ... in fact some of the weapons were downright fucking ridiculous and looked ridiculous.

Same thing with something like The Picture of Dorian Gray. Infinitely a far more bleak depiction of the world simply for Dorian's (and Lord Henry's) presence, that as if their machinations, their obsessions, their wastrel lives and their pointless pursuits both vain and in hopeless salvation without recognising there is nothng of worth to them is a bleaker story of examining of many different types of personal suffering one might not even live to endure.

And honestly, you could make a PG-13 movie of that just simply by accurately portraying the book. Like one definite murder and two suicides, which you could still hold true to the book and its sentiments by not directly showing. Yet I challenge anyone to find a bleaker attitude to the human condition than that tale.

Barring Catch-22 that is ... but nothing is as good as Catch-22. Also how fucking mindnumbing it must of been given the author actually lived that madness of conflict. How he statistically shouldn't have survived WW2, statistically been killed three times over, given the number of hours in the air, the number of missions, the number of direct engagements with enemy air defenses and intercepts.

That movie you couldn't do PG-13 ... but so much of the book wore lightheartedness that was in truth incredibly bleak and soul-crushing. Like Major Major Major. How he got his name, why his father chose it, and because of that absurd humour becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy via a filing error that simply recorded and maintains both position and namesake as Maj. Major Major in the U.S. Army Air Forces. Displaying no less the same mechanical and thoughtless humour as his father to the detriment of all...

Movie is bad (well, it's actually pretty good .. just in comparison to the book which is pretty unfair a bar), but it get some of the sentiments right. And arguably you could never properly transform it into a movie in the first place.

I get having biases based on the shows that were on when you grew up, but personally I prefer quality over quantity with my cartoons. I mean, look at this:Jesus Christ, that's like 80 percent of the schedule for this week! Whatever happened to shows variety?

undeadsuitor:how come when people list stuff like "cartoons used to look better than the trash we have now", they list several examples of stuff they like but leave "the cartoons running now" blank?

Are we just supposed to fill the blank in with the obvious "all new shows are Teen Titans GO" answer everything is leading to?

Because from my childhood experiance and tastes, they were better than they are now.

Let me list the shows in Cartoon Network after the last decent cartoon from the channel, Foster's Home for Imaginary Frieds (And that show has its own problems looking back in hindsight, I.E. Mean Spiritedness) and I am excluding shows like DC cartoons and Scooby Doo, and Transformers and what have you because I feel they are not truly part of "Cartoon Network" and just guest shows to a host channel.

Mid to Late 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

Samtemdo8:I do think Animation and Art Quality has degraded over the years.

I miss the days when cartoons looked like this:

And an honorable mention to Ultimate Spiderman, 90s Spiderman, X-Men, the rest of the DCAU, Avatar the Last Airbender and Teen Titans aswell.

Even the more cartoonier looking shows like Butch Hartmann's work, Genndy Tartakovsky, and Spongebob and Kim Possible, etc. look way better than cartoons now. With the sole exception I will give to My Little Pony Friendship is Magic.

Heck American Dad and Simpsons still looks better than new adult animated sitcoms.

We're kinda talking about quality of the writing, not the animation. Also Ultimate Spider-Man has good animation, but its pretty awful to sit through.

Simpsons should have ended a while ago, American Dad is hit or miss, Ben 10: Alien Force is really not very good, '90s Spider-Man has aged, but its still enjoyable. I love the rest. Well, except MLP. I don't watch it.

What was wrong with Ben 10 Alien Force/Ultimate Alien era really? Because I'll be frank, the first original series didn't fully catch my attention that much, I watched only a few episodes here or there, Alien Force/Ultimate Alien was when I started watching it a bit more often.

But now my memory of that show is completely blank except for a handful of episodes. So how was it shit?

Samtemdo8:I do think Animation and Art Quality has degraded over the years.

I miss the days when cartoons looked like this:

And an honorable mention to Ultimate Spiderman, 90s Spiderman, X-Men, the rest of the DCAU, Avatar the Last Airbender and Teen Titans aswell.

Even the more cartoonier looking shows like Butch Hartmann's work, Genndy Tartakovsky, and Spongebob and Kim Possible, etc. look way better than cartoons now. With the sole exception I will give to My Little Pony Friendship is Magic.

Heck American Dad and Simpsons still looks better than new adult animated sitcoms.

We're kinda talking about quality of the writing, not the animation. Also Ultimate Spider-Man has good animation, but its pretty awful to sit through.

Simpsons should have ended a while ago, American Dad is hit or miss, Ben 10: Alien Force is really not very good, '90s Spider-Man has aged, but its still enjoyable. I love the rest. Well, except MLP. I don't watch it.

What was wrong with Ben 10 Alien Force/Ultimate Alien era really? Because I'll be frank, the first original series didn't fully catch my attention that much, I watched only a few episodes here or there, Alien Force/Ultimate Alien was when I started watching it a bit more often.

But now my memory of that show is completely blank except for a handful of episodes. So how was it shit?

Its not entirely shit. I enjoyed Ultimate Alien a bit more upon reflection than Alien Force. A lot of my problems with the era is the writing felt off at times, some of the characters were a tad bland, villains were incredibly forgettable and despite some cool designs, the stories didn't really grasp greatly imo. As much as the original series doesn't age well, I felt it was a bit better in its characters or stories.

It's just change man. Happens all the time. Cartoons were very different in the 90s, the 80s, and the 70s. I was born in 85 so I grew up with 90s cartoons. They were pretty different to the 2000s.

I think part of it, these days, is that kids are more Internet and iPad savy than ever before so they spend more time on casual games and surfing than watching TV. TV shows are more redundant than they used to be for kids so less money goes into them. Less money equals fewer ideas.