Well, I decided to take a look at the so-called "blackface" thing that got it banned or at least skipped, and I saw the screencap for it on Bulbapedia:

All I can say on this is... you're kidding, right? THAT'S looking like blackface?! He at most looks like he's wearing one of MSF's balaclavas or even the black face paint in Snake Eater. Jynx and Mr. Popo, heck, Meowzie's former trainer even, came far closer to actually LOOKING like blackface than this does, since we don't even see big lips on Ash's disguise (usually, performers in blackface make sure to leave the mouths free of the soot in such a way that it gives the illusion that they have very big lips). And personally, I always get irritated when people complain about blackface when banning something. By that logic, people who wear ski masks that have the eyes and mouth exposed are engaging in blackface vaudeville entertainment even when they are doing something like skiing or robbing banks. Seriously... sometimes I wonder just what is up with people these days...

Seriously, I can now officially say this is even WORSE than when Weatherford got Jynx banned. At least back then, while we might not agree with it, we could at least SEE why Jynx might be assumed to be a racist caricature due to both the black skin and especially the big red lips. Here, it's denounced as a racist caricature despite literally no evidence pointing towards it (maybe if Ash's passimian disguise included big peach lips, I'd see why they'd complain, but it lacks that, the only big peach elements being his eyes if anything. He looks as much like a racist caricature as a spec ops soldier wearing a balaclava does.). Honestly, not even 4Kids ever did THIS kind of insanity regarding banning episodes.

While Ash's costume doesn't look like a blatant derogatory sign towards black people, remember that Passimian is a monkey-like Pokemon and that the word "monkey" is used as a racial slur towards the black-skinned people. I think it was due to the "monkey is offensive towards blacks" reason that the episode got banned outside of Japan.

My bet is that Disney XD execs (since they're more likely behind all the SM series censorship than TPCi are) saw the recent controversy with Roseanne Barr comparing a former Obama staffer to an ape (which resulted in the revived Roseanne TV series getting cancelled despite impressive ratings), and noticing Passimian being a monkey-based Pokemon with a black face, I guess they wanted to ban it because of the recent "monkey" controversy.

While Ash's costume doesn't look like a blatant derogatory sign towards black people, remember that Passimian is a monkey-like Pokemon and that the word "monkey" is used as a racial slur towards the black-skinned people. I think it was due to the "monkey is offensive towards blacks" reason that the episode got banned outside of Japan.

My bet is that Disney XD execs (since they're more likely behind all the SM series censorship than TPCi are) saw the recent controversy with Roseanne Barr comparing a former Obama staffer to an ape (which resulted in the revived Roseanne TV series getting cancelled despite impressive ratings), and noticing Passimian being a monkey-based Pokemon with a black face, I guess they wanted to ban it because of the recent "monkey" controversy.

Hmm makes sense and I forgot about that controversy(largely because it didn't involve me so I could give a flying f^&*). I already made my opinion known so I might as well move on from this subject. Not worth it to revive and beat a dead horse.

While Ash's costume doesn't look like a blatant derogatory sign towards black people, remember that Passimian is a monkey-like Pokemon and that the word "monkey" is used as a racial slur towards the black-skinned people. I think it was due to the "monkey is offensive towards blacks" reason that the episode got banned outside of Japan.

My bet is that Disney XD execs (since they're more likely behind all the SM series censorship than TPCi are) saw the recent controversy with Roseanne Barr comparing a former Obama staffer to an ape (which resulted in the revived Roseanne TV series getting cancelled despite impressive ratings), and noticing Passimian being a monkey-based Pokemon with a black face, I guess they wanted to ban it because of the recent "monkey" controversy.

Okay, I heard about that controversy (and it makes sense regarding Disney, since they also owned ABC, the channel that the revived Roseanne TV series was initially on before that whole controversy happened), but if that's the reason (and I'd say it's manufactured personally because I've seen a few left-wingers literally get away with comparing certain people with monkeys. Case in point, Bill Maher actually compared Donald Trump to an Orangutan recently, even having a side bar saying "Legitimate Ape" with comparison photos of Trump and an Orangutan. I mean, I don't know about you, but if it's racist and bad to compare Valerie Jarret to a character from Planet of the Apes, bad enough to get you fired and your show cancelled, it's also equally racist and bad to compare Trump to an Orangutan, enough that Bill Maher's show would need to be cancelled. Besides, I've seen a few instances of the left getting away with showing or saying far WORSE things, like Whoopie Goldberg proudly displaying a T-shirt that has the Make America Great Again logo and President Trump blowing his brains out [which last I checked comes close to inciting assassination of a sitting president, if not IS that.].), all I can say is that it still doesn't work, since I don't think anyone would think "racist" regarding Pokémon that were based on lemurs. The whole Roseanne Barr thing was predicated more on her comparing Valerie Jarrett (you know, Obama's Chief of Staff) to Dr. Zaius' female assistant (who isn't a monkey, but rather an ape [there's a massive difference between the two simians: Monkeys have tails, apes do not], hence why her originating film was "The Planet of the Apes"), which at least has some resemblance to a human in that case. Besides, technically, the Frieza Saga of Dragon Ball Z, maybe even certain episodes of Dragon Ball would need to be banned wholesale precisely because a lot of the characters (particularly, Frieza and his gang) refer to the Saiyans as monkeys in an obviously racist manner if we're to use that argument.

Okay, I heard about that controversy (and it makes sense regarding Disney, since they also owned ABC, the channel that the revived Roseanne TV series was initially on before that whole controversy happened), but if that's the reason (and I'd say it's manufactured personally because I've seen a few left-wingers literally get away with comparing certain people with monkeys. Case in point, Bill Maher actually compared Donald Trump to an Orangutan recently, even having a side bar saying "Legitimate Ape" with comparison photos of Trump and an Orangutan. I mean, I don't know about you, but if it's racist and bad to compare Valerie Jarret to a character from Planet of the Apes, bad enough to get you fired and your show cancelled, it's also equally racist and bad to compare Trump to an Orangutan, enough that Bill Maher's show would need to be cancelled.

She called Obama the leader of Muslim Brotherhood at the same time though and Trump wasn't born orange it's just him using tan. Bill Maher is also far from a left-winger being more into libertarian hence him being friends with Milo Yiannopoulos.

She called Obama the leader of Muslim Brotherhood at the same time though and Trump wasn't born orange it's just him using tan. Bill Maher is also far from a left-winger being more into libertarian hence him being friends with Milo Yiannopoulos.

Eh, I don't know, Maher did advocate for people to cause the recession to happen just to get Trump out of office, and he has largely sided with the left on several issues. And just because he's friends with Yiannopoulos doesn't mean he's any less of a leftist. Let's not forget that Rush Limbaugh and Seth MacFarland are friends in real life as well, and MacFarland's pretty far to the left.

And I don't recall ever indicating that Trump was born orange (in fact, I didn't really notice any orange on him other than in caricatures. If anything, he looked pale-skinned to me).

In any case, my point was that if they really were all that concerned about Roseanne Barr comparing Valerie Jarret to one of the Planet of the Apes characters and decrying it as racist, they should do the same regarding Maher's comparing Trump to an Orangutan. After all, it's the same thing overall, and if it's bad in one instance, it's bad in all instances.

Either way, it still doesn't change how stupid it is to ban the episode (especially when the Pansimmians are based on Lemurs, which are far from being a racist stereotype. What, should we ban Ash catching Primeape, then? Or Ash catching Aipom, for that matter?).

Eh, I don't know, Maher did advocate for people to cause the recession to happen just to get Trump out of office, and he has largely sided with the left on several issues. And just because he's friends with Yiannopoulos doesn't mean he's any less of a leftist. Let's not forget that Rush Limbaugh and Seth MacFarland are friends in real life as well, and MacFarland's pretty far to the left.

And I don't recall ever indicating that Trump was born orange (in fact, I didn't really notice any orange on him other than in caricatures. If anything, he looked pale-skinned to me).

In any case, my point was that if they really were all that concerned about Roseanne Barr comparing Valerie Jarret to one of the Planet of the Apes characters and decrying it as racist, they should do the same regarding Maher's comparing Trump to an Orangutan. After all, it's the same thing overall, and if it's bad in one instance, it's bad in all instances.

His pale-skin tan is why he's being compared to a Orangutan and not the skin he was born with, a huge difference. She also called Obama a Muslim just because of his skin color as well.

Also research what libertarian means, I'm not implying that he didn't want Clinton to win.

His pale-skin tan is why he's being compared to a Orangutan and not the skin he was born with, a huge difference. She also called Obama a Muslim just because of his skin color as well.

Also research what libertarian means, I'm not implying that he didn't want Clinton to win.

Yeah, sorry, not buying that explanation at all. If I were to call a fellow white man, a lily white man for the record, a monkey, technically, I'd be just as racist as if I were to call a black person that if I were to adhere to that term, as I see zero difference between them (same deal if they, say, compared Bush to a monkey).

Also, I know what a libertarian is. In fact, one of my Middle School teachers IS a libertarian, even had a magazine cover that essentially said the good lose is one of the two presidential candidates, Bush and Kerry, will lose, before saying that the bad news is one will win, so I actually have first hand experience of knowing libertarians. I don't think a libertarian would go as far as to demand for his audience to cause an economic recession/depression just to force a sitting president out (my middle school teacher most certainly didn't, and he wasn't fond of either Bush or Kerry [heck, he even had a photocopied image of Bush's face superimposed with that of a baby chimpanzee, if that's anything to go by.], and also wasn't a big fan of Abe Lincoln [I believe his exact words about Lincoln were that he was "a bunch of crap, son."].), which is exactly what Maher did. Besides, I'm pretty sure Obama would have been considered, if not a leader of the Muslim Brotherhood, then certainly one of its biggest allies due to him essentially being the reason why it grew as big as it did via the whole "Arab Spring."

In any case, the topic dealt with the banned episode, so let's keep it to that. For the record, like I said, passimian is pretty obviously based on lemurs, heck, technically they have white fur as well, so it's obvious they aren't black stereotypes at all (and quite frankly, if they're so upset at the mere presence of monkeys or apes due to thinking it's racist for whatever reason, technically, the Aipom capture and focus episodes ought to be banned for the same reason as well, not to mention Ash capturing and later using Primeape. It's just stupid, as is it being banned for "black face" when, BTW, it doesn't even REMOTELY look like blackface at all.). The ban was stupid, probably far worse than whatever edits or episode bans 4Kids may have been responsible for (even Ice Cave and any episodes where Jynx ended up banned at least had Jynx actually HAVING dark skin and big lips as a sufficient excuse for banning it, even if it was a stupid reason to begin with, while this clearly didn't).

Either way, it still doesn't change how stupid it is to ban the episode (especially when the Pansimmians are based on Lemurs, which are far from being a racist stereotype. What, should we ban Ash catching Primeape, then? Or Ash catching Aipom, for that matter?).

It was because Passimian looks more monkey-like, and the black face had unfortunate implications. None of the other monkey-like Pokemon had black faces.

It was because Passimian looks more monkey-like, and the black face had unfortunate implications. None of the other monkey-like Pokemon had black faces.

Still doesn't make sense with the black faces, since they're not even the right type of black face that people get riled up over (there's no obvious massive lip-like markings, something which Jynx at least was seen to possess in addition to the dark skin.). Ash looks far more like some Spec Ops soldier than some blackface vaudeville entertainer.

Do we still not have an official statement from TPCI on this matter yet?

I'm guessing no because if there was it would have been all over this thread.

One of the administrators on Bulbapedia did contact TPCi over the issue, and they have confirmed the episode will be skipped entirely in the dub. The TPCi representative in question even said it was intended to be left out of the dub to begin with, which further implies that they saw the Passimian costume as something that would upset black people and cause huge controversy, so they felt playing safe and removing the episode from the dub schedule would ensure blacks are not triggered. Guess maybe they knew about the Jynx issue and how badly blacks got offended.

Either the black stereotyping issue, or that editing the black paint off Ash's face would defeat the costume's purpose.

Not sure why they should be vilified for thinking of other communities?

Which communities? The ones who race-bait like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton do by making literally everything seem like racism?

Had I been black and saw that image of Ash in a Passimian Suit, I wouldn't have even THOUGHT he was doing blackface at all, because he really didn't with that suit. You want blackface? THIS is blackface (the one on the right):

Spoiler:

If it lacks the lips, it isn't blackface, period. I also disagreed with the Jynx and Mr. Popo edits, but at least with those I could see where Weatherford was coming from, while with Ash's Passimian outfit, I literally cannot see how that's even slightly similar to blackface (and quite frankly, I really don't see how its that big of a deal, to be honest, especially when no one complained when Everett and his crew actually DID end up in blackface while infiltrating a KKK rally in O Brother Where Art Thou).

One of the administrators on Bulbapedia did contact TPCi over the issue, and they have confirmed the episode will be skipped entirely in the dub. The TPCi representative in question even said it was intended to be left out of the dub to begin with, which further implies that they saw the Passimian costume as something that would upset black people and cause huge controversy, so they felt playing safe and removing the episode from the dub schedule would ensure blacks are not triggered. Guess maybe they knew about the Jynx issue and how badly blacks got offended.

Either the black stereotyping issue, or that editing the black paint off Ash's face would defeat the costume's purpose.

I see. That doesn't exactly make the situation any better, or any less ridiculous, but at least we have confirmation now.

Just because you personally didn't find it offensive, regardless of your colour, does not suddenly mean everybody, regardless of their colour, wouldn't have found it offensive.

Wouldn't be surprised TPCi just decided to avoid the headache that someone, somewhere would have found it offensive. All it takes is one person who wants attention/a quick buck and a media outlet looking to make a news story.

Just because you personally didn't find it offensive, regardless of your colour, does not suddenly mean everybody, regardless of their colour, wouldn't have found it offensive.

Wouldn't be surprised TPCi just decided to avoid the headache that someone, somewhere would have found it offensive. All it takes is one person who wants attention/a quick buck and a media outlet looking to make a news story.

By that logic, they also can't ban the episode precisely because that one person could decide to claim them banning the episode makes the Disney guys racist. See the problem with that argument? It goes both ways, and causes the same headache regardless. And like I said, barely anyone had a problem with Everett and his crew in O Brother Where Art Thou when they wore blackface at a KKK rally, and the script actually stated they were in blackface, so it isn't even speculation:

Quote:

Behind Everett in the deep background someone emerges from
the ranks into the middle aisle. He approaches with a strong,
purposeful stride - Big Dan Teague, bareheaded, holding his
hood under his arm.

Besides, Ash's passimian outfit doesn't even LOOK like blackface anyway. If you look at the image I spoilered due to size, you'd see what ACTUAL blackface looks like (I'll give you a hint: Jynx and Mr. Popo, heck, Staff Officer Black, Android 15 and Killer even, came far closer to actually LOOKING like blackface than Ash in his Passimian suit did). It's not just placing black paint on your face. If anything, Ash's Passimian outfit would have better resembled the Black Face Paint from Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater, or heck, even one of the MSF balaclavas in Peace Walker. So unless you think the Al Sharptons should order for a riot or protest over the use of Black Face Paint in, say, Act of Valor, not to mention the Metal Gear games, I'd strongly suggest you stop inferring that Ash's use of the paint was racist.

Except that since the episode hasn't been localised, people have said TPCi and Disney are idiots and free speech and everything...except being racist. But I'll concede this point if you can find an instance.

And sorry to disappoint, but Ash's case actually resembles blackface more than the other cases you've stated.

You see, those characters may look like they have blackface on...but have dark complexions to begin with. There is no need to make these character have darker complexions, they were like that to begin with.

Ash has a lighter complexion, made darker by the use of face paint to impersonate someone or something with a darker complexion, which is exactly what blackface was meant to do.

The examples for OBWAT and Metal Gear just don't hold up to Ash's case. In those cases, neither tries to impersonate black people. In OBWAT, the dirt used for 'blackface' wasn't to impersonate black people, but rather to blend into the night the previous night. With Metal Gear, it's again to blend into the background. You see the difference and why no-one called foul? The intent is completely different.

The balaclava...no, just...no. It's not even remotely related to blackface. You're just wearing an item of clothing designed to hide facial features.

Was Ash's case intentionally racist, or at least ignorant? Was this even racist at all? More than likely not in all cases in the Japanese production crew's eyes. They probably thought to include the face paint to better resemble Passimian, not to encourage years of racial oppression. Evidently so, the thing they tried to imitate wasn't a black person, but rather one of the many magical creatures the show is filled with and frequently showcases.

Sadly for the Japanese production crew, not everything is 'black and white', so to speak. There are no simple sums like in mathematics where 2+2 will always be 4. Art and entertainment as a medium is entirely subjective to interpretation and what may be deemed fine in Japan, may not be deemed fine in the West and vice versa.

Except that since the episode hasn't been localised, people have said TPCi and Disney are idiots and free speech and everything...except being racist. But I'll concede this point if you can find an instance.

And sorry to disappoint, but Ash's case actually resembles blackface more than the other cases you've stated.

You see, those characters may look like they have blackface on...but have dark complexions to begin with. There is no need to make these character have darker complexions, they were like that to begin with.

Ash has a lighter complexion, made darker by the use of face paint to impersonate someone or something with a darker complexion, which is exactly what blackface was meant to do.

The examples for OBWAT and Metal Gear just don't hold up to Ash's case. In those cases, neither tries to impersonate black people. In OBWAT, the dirt used for 'blackface' wasn't to impersonate black people, but rather to blend into the night the previous night. With Metal Gear, it's again to blend into the background. You see the difference and why no-one called foul? The intent is completely different.

The balaclava...no, just...no. It's not even remotely related to blackface. You're just wearing an item of clothing designed to hide facial features.

Was Ash's case intentionally racist, or at least ignorant? Was this even racist at all? More than likely not in all cases in the Japanese production crew's eyes. They probably thought to include the face paint to better resemble Passimian, not to encourage years of racial oppression. Evidently so, the thing they tried to imitate wasn't a black person, but rather one of the many magical creatures the show is filled with and frequently showcases.

Sadly for the Japanese production crew, not everything is 'black and white', so to speak. There are no simple sums like in mathematics where 2+2 will always be 4. Art and entertainment as a medium is entirely subjective to interpretation and what may be deemed fine in Japan, may not be deemed fine in the West and vice versa.

Seriously? Passimians aren't even people, they're Pokémon, so him posing as a Passimian doesn't come across as promoting racism any more than Ash outright capturing and owning two Monkey/Ape-like Pokémon does. And you do realize that there ARE balaclavas that literally expose the eyes and mouth as well, right? All it takes is one race-baiting idiot to get THOSE banned for blackface just for merely LOOKING like blackface regardless of intent (after all, Jynx and Mr. Popo got banned/altered just for merely LOOKING like blackface despite, as you pointed out, their naturally looking like that.). And do you REALLY think the likes of Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson would even CARE if OBWAT or, heck, even Snake Eater's use of black face paint was for stealth? No. They'll still try to get them banned under charges of racism, no matter how ridiculous, making their entire livelihood ginning up controversy regarding race (there's even evidence that the whole reason there was a housing crash back in 2008 was because they legally forced Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to provide homes to people who obviously couldn't afford them by threatening to denounce them as racists if they didn't). For goodness sakes, it's because of people like them that Song of the South got banned, not to mention screwed up "What Made the Red Man Red" in Peter Pan. Not to mention it's not even consistent since they didn't try to get Bill Maher fired for, I don't know, outright comparing Donald Trump to an Orangutan. And the problem is, Ash's use of it was STILL not even close to blackface in terms of appearance. Do you see any lips on him? Absolutely not. Unless it looks exactly or very close to the example I used for blackface, it's not blackface, plain and simple. And, actually, arts and entertainment is not subjective. It's more like chemistry, if it's comparable to anything, and that ISN'T subjective at all (if you mix two chemicals that shouldn't be mixed, things would turn out badly, period.).

As far as an instance, you mean besides me, right? I think someone else on here actually mentioned that bit regarding racism regarding Disney and TCPi being racist.

Seriously? Passimians aren't even people, they're Pokémon, so him posing as a Passimian doesn't come across as promoting racism any more than Ash outright capturing and owning two Monkey/Ape-like Pokémon does. And you do realize that there ARE balaclavas that literally expose the eyes and mouth as well, right? All it takes is one race-baiting idiot to get THOSE banned for blackface just for merely LOOKING like blackface regardless of intent (after all, Jynx and Mr. Popo got banned/altered just for merely LOOKING like blackface despite, as you pointed out, their naturally looking like that.). And do you REALLY think the likes of Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson would even CARE if OBWAT or, heck, even Snake Eater's use of black face paint was for stealth? No. They'll still try to get them banned under charges of racism, no matter how ridiculous, making their entire livelihood ginning up controversy regarding race (there's even evidence that the whole reason there was a housing crash back in 2008 was because they legally forced Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to provide homes to people who obviously couldn't afford them by threatening to denounce them as racists if they didn't). For goodness sakes, it's because of people like them that Song of the South got banned, not to mention screwed up "What Made the Red Man Red" in Peter Pan. Not to mention it's not even consistent since they didn't try to get Bill Maher fired for, I don't know, outright comparing Donald Trump to an Orangutan. And the problem is, Ash's use of it was STILL not even close to blackface in terms of appearance. Do you see any lips on him? Absolutely not. Unless it looks exactly or very close to the example I used for blackface, it's not blackface, plain and simple. And, actually, arts and entertainment is not subjective. It's more like chemistry, if it's comparable to anything, and that ISN'T subjective at all (if you mix two chemicals that shouldn't be mixed, things would turn out badly, period.).

As far as an instance, you mean besides me, right? I think someone else on here actually mentioned that bit regarding racism regarding Disney and TCPi being racist.

Bill Maher, last I checked, works for HBO, not DIsney, although he was under ABC at one time. Furthermore, those with left leaning views have a far greater leash when it comes to Freedom of Expression these days but it doesn't mean they don't come under fire for it. Maher in particular used the N-Word about a year ago and people called in for him to be fired. He apologized and still has his job. However, the blatant double standard regarding 1st Amendment incidents isn't what is up for debate here.

I've already made my point be known that they should have allowed everything, including Jynx and what not, to have aired unedited. This is Japan and one of their Animated series we're talking about here. They have no history of discriminating against African-Americans(Chinese and other cultures is another story...) so for TPC to ban an Episode(and here I thought it was Disney, although it doesn't surprise me that they gave no pushback on it), is merely them avoiding the potential backlash(as opposed to dealing with it as it comes and basically telling those offended to go F- themselves).

I'm glad the episode got banned since Ash's Passimian disguise was just asking for trouble. I blame the Japanese producers for failing to take racial insensitivity into account, yet they do have a tendency to overlook that like when it came to Jynx and Lenora.

I'm glad the episode got banned since Ash's Passimian disguise was just asking for trouble. I blame the Japanese producers for failing to take racial insensitivity into account, yet they do have a tendency to overlook that like when it came to Jynx and Lenora.

Has it ever occurred to you that maybe, JUST maybe, we're the ones who are getting WAY too sensitive regarding racial stuff? I mean, for goodness sakes, there had even been talks of denouncing CHICAGO as a racist term fairly recently, and that's despite it being a city in the United States.

I could understand, say, altering Jynx and Mr. Popo. Heck, I could even understand the Lenora bit, but the whole Passimian business doesn't even LOOK like racism. If it did, Ash would either have no soot on his lips, or otherwise be wearing red lipstick while acting like Passimian.

I'm glad the episode got banned since Ash's Passimian disguise was just asking for trouble. I blame the Japanese producers for failing to take racial insensitivity into account, yet they do have a tendency to overlook that like when it came to Jynx and Lenora.

It is sad when you realise the Japanese version of the anime has scenes that don't fly well in the West due to racial sensitivity. I do feel the Japanese producers haven't learned from the Jynx incident.

It is sad when you realise the Japanese version of the anime has scenes that don't fly well in the West due to racial sensitivity. I do feel the Japanese producers haven't learned from the Jynx incident.

To be fair to the producers, I really wouldn't have seen how that was even slightly similar to Jynx. At least Ash either covered most of his face with soot or otherwise didn't wear lipstick.

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