heya there happy to write the first post in this thread well as you know im the only pally tank in the guild the progression of my char and py style was abit wierd as i started playing wow abit late after tbc came outand this is my first character so till level 60 ive done some wierd talent mix of holy and retribution wasnt really effective but ive played retribution till 70 and my insight about retribution paladins are that they are pretty decent about dps and excelet at burst damage wich is exelent in pvp = seal of command +crusaderstrike + judgement top that with abit of holy wrath mabey stun the target before for the extra damage and u accumulate to afew thausand damage in a very short period (at least that is what i did...).i only played as a holy paladin for a short period of time of a few days so i dont have much experience with that .

well the main topic of this message is about being a prot paladinfor level 80 heroics u basically need 20k hp and 20k armor unbuffed and 335 def \ 340 for raids to be crit immunenotice that 102.4 avoidance is no longer needed in wotlkjust to explain how pally tanks work....1. paladin tanks depend on mana for threat generation = no mana no threat = wipe2. paladins get mana from spiritual attunment from heals.3.paladin main threat generation comes from hammer of righteos (hits 3 targets at the same time ) , righteous shield (hits one target generating alot of threat) , concecration (now less dependant than in tbc) and of course holy shield (increases block by 30% and does holy damage) that contribues to the survival of the tank and for threat .4. damage migitation - armor , ardent defender (any attack below 35% is reduced by 30% ) + 9% less damage when using righteous furry and blessing of sanctuary (that u always use) which makes our life pool much bigger than it really is.5. main tool used for pulling mobs - avenger shield (hits 3 targets and stuns them).6. righteous defence - a taunt in case a mob has wandered off killing the healer (taunts up to 3 targets to attack the paladin).

gear:after getting enugh def rating to meet the cap basically start stocking up on stamina strength , dodge , parry and block raiting the higher block raiting u have the more threat u produce using holy shield so its considered gold for paladins.i see many tanks stacking up on stamina like junkies but neglecting their avoidance (dodge , parry and block )somethimes its better to sacrifice abit of stamina for better avoidance ( i know its nice to see 27k or 30k on your hp but what good is it if it plummets down in instances rapidly) so make sure to balance it out.*about spell damage : paladins get spell damage now from stamina so no need to stack up spell damage gear for better threat.

survivabiliy:as opposed to the other tanking classes paladins can heal themself during fightand with devine plea , blessing of wisdom , judgment of wisdom and ofc blessing of sanctuary ( every block restores mana) you can keep your mana pool up which means u can keep yourself up lay on hands comes in handy instant heal to full health and olso some manadevine shield (time to bandage , dance , sleep , tell a joke) and it olso removes any debuffs there are on u (so u can use it and immediately dismiss it in instances).

about how to play a pally tank well u just need to develop your own style just dont concecrate near cc'ed mobs .... the grp hates that in instances :p

well that was my insight about paladins especially the protection build i hope that helped u understand paladin as tanks better...ive probably missed a few things ...... but the hour is late so if u wanna know more ask

Hey hey guys, I've been a retradin since liv 1 and was very hard for me becouse I wanted to pve and all people were telling me that the pala can't dps. This ofc wasn't true but now with new patch and wotlk dpsing is really easy for a paladin and I use to top the dps charts with my rival Calena and when Evilrazor isn't online =)

The spec is easy becouse the paladin have only 1 tree on dps talent so u actually need every talent in there. The most important thing to know is that you must use Seal of Blood (marthyr) to dps in pve becouse the Judgment of Marthyr is your first source of dmg, a lot over the melee. The rotation is really simple becouse you have only 3 abilities to use : Judgement, crusadre strike, divine storm(also consacration when u have enought mana). The Judgment of wisdom is the best choice imo.

The most important stat is ofc the AP (and STR consequently), so retradins pve don't need BoK, they'll allways use BoM. Then you have to pay attention to hit rating and critical strike at the same time. The hit cap for a paladin is 9% and there are no bonus to hit rating in the talent tree so you need average 300 hit rating to be capped. 200 is the minimum i think to be a good raid dps. Crit chanche should be aroung 27/28% to be a good dps. Gearing up your hit rating and your crit have to be attentioned at the same time. Further in the game we will have more items with armor penetration rating but now it isn't important for paladins.

The best glyphs for pve are (imo): -glyph of judgement-glyph of seal of bloodglyph of avenging wrathand as minor: -glyph of BoM-glyph of sense undead (very important)-

I know we are very unfashionable these days and rapidly becoming an endangered species but I thought it was about time I wrote something about the HOLY PALADIN just in case there is anyone else out there still playing one

The Paladin class has some of the most mana-efficient and low-threat healing spells in the game, allowing them to easily fill the position of a main tank healer in a party or raid situation. Their healing efficiency makes them great endurance and battle healers, though paladins lack area of effect healing abilities (healing multiple targets at once) and healing over time effects. Paladins do have a form of indirect healing from the spell Judgement of Light. Also new abilities such as Beacon of Light and glyphs can now enable heals or percentages of heals to be transferred from the main target player to other players where several in the group are taking damage simultaneously (something which has traditionally put a strain on pally healing).

The primary stats needed by a paladin healer (in alphabetical order and not necessarily in order of importance) are :

• Haste rating

• Intellect

• Mana per 5 seconds

• Spell critical strike rating

• Spell power

Choice of these is left up to the player based upon their goal and play-style, but I personally go for bonus spellpower, critical strike rating and mana per 5 seconds above anything else. Since the release of WotLK I’ve found that a lot of plate pally gear also has additional haste as well as +MP5, +spellpower or +crit strike rating so I’m assembling a pretty good set of gear with +haste built in too which is proving pretty handy. Intellect is obviously important to a pally and all plate pally healing gear comes with decent intell already included but if you want it can be useful to further enhance intell with enchants and gems. As I’ll explain below this is important in respect of using the Holy Guidance talent in the holy tree for increasing overall spell damage and healing.

Illumination, is the Holy tree’s most important talent and allows Paladins to regain mana on healing critical strikes, leading the Holy Paladin to be a unique "crit centric" healing build. Holy Paladins are widely regarded as the most efficient single target healer in the game, due to the incredible “healing per mana ratio” of Flash of Light..Otherwise, the talent points of paladin healers are not as tight as those of the paladin tanks or DPS, so you can easily find a lot of viable healing builds out there. Nevertheless, the majority of people would agree that these are the core talents of PvE healadins: Divine Intellect, Spiritual Focus, Healing Light, Illumination, Sanctified Light, Holy Power, Light's Grace, Holy Guidance, Divine Illumination and Beacon of Light. Other optional but good-to-have talents include Improved Blessing of Wisdom, Improved Lay on Hands, Blessed Life, Divine Favor.

A good basic healing build would look more or less like the one in the link below:

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sxA0gMzhVuRxRt

The rest of the points can go to other useful talents in the Holy tree, as well as Protection or Retribution trees as you see fit. It is common for healadins to pick up Blessing of Kings and/or Improved Blessing of Might for the benefit of other raid members. Benediction, Conviction and Sanctified Seals from Retribution tree also helps by reducing mana cost of instant spells and increasing critical chance.

The Holy talent tree is very powerful and makes the paladin a very strong healer; Light's Grace allows you to quick-fire Holy Light heals for larger burst healing effectiveness, and Holy Guidance will increase your overall spell damage and healing based upon your current intellect (this obviously means it is important to have good intellect stats as a Holy pally).

Spell crit rating will help a healing set quite a lot if you have Illumination (fourth tier of Holy). Any build having Holy Shock will include (as a matter of course) Divine Favor; Divine Favor gives a guaranteed crit to your next heal or Holy Shock, and can increase HPS in that manner.

Holy paladin healers benefit from gear with spellpower, intellect, spell critical strike rating and mp5. Stamina is also good to have for better survivability. Usually a one-handed weapon and shield with good healing stats are used, although some may prefer a non-shield off-hand item with good healing stats. Paladin healers can use any types of armor from plate to cloth (don’t be a clothadin, leatheradin or even shammyadin though unless you really have to – its embarrassing for the proper plate wearing pallies and we’ll laugh at you in your skirt/dress or call you a priest and ask for HOTs).

For any paladin build, spirit should be ignored. The Paladin's healing style is to weather the fight through their natural high efficiency, rather than to heal in bursts of mana use and wait for regeneration. Furthermore, spirit gives paladins no side bonuses that some priests and druids have such as a bonus to healing; instead, Paladins get that bonus from intellect.

Our basic healing spell is Flash of Light so spam it in order to keep your assignment's health topped. Holy Light is your strongest heal in case spamming isn't enough. It also has the longest casting time of all your heals, so keep that in mind in critical situations. Sometimes it would be wiser to cast Light's Grace and crit heal with Holy Shock in order to instantly increase target's health and then cast Holy Light. Yes, it is mana-inefficient but the point is to keep the tank alive and prevent a wipe. Due to spamming Flash of Light paladin healers very often suffer from criticism about “overhealing”. Overhealing that doesn't make you run out of mana is fully acceptable. Remember - it is always better to overheal than underheal and suffer a wipe.

As a holy paladin, most of our increased healing power comes through +healing items and enchantments, as well as a good chunk of damage coming from +spell power.