"Again, if you take the opponent off the mat, you are responsible for his safe return."

Doesn't the rule say that a slam is defined as lifting and returning the wrestler to the mat with unnecessary force?

To me, this implies that a mat return done with "normal" force (for example a routine lift and sweep of the legs from behind with hands locked around waist) could result in an injury and still be legal (defensive wrestler lands on his elbow and is injured).

I'm not referring to a particular incident, just reading the rule and thinking of an example.

I have a question for referee. What is the rule against tying shoes during a match and how is it determined to be enforced?

Shoes strings no longer have to be taped, or secured by velcro straps as the rule used to state. It now states that shoe strings must be secure and all the eyes must be laced. Most officials will allow one opportunity for shoes to be re-tied AND double knotted (but not for lacing). Any incident afterwards is a 1 pt. technical violation AND injury time.

Something I want you to see, and tell me if you think the Ref had sufficient time to stop a very dangerous mat return. (Note: I don't think this is an illegal slam, but definitely potential dangerous)

39:10 Minute mark

Slam. The kid in control leaves his feet to secure the mat return and appeared to deliberately take him to the mat where his opponent did not have a post. (The kid from Anderson probably learned the lesson of not keeping the head in that position, however) Probably could have been called potentially dangerous after about 5 seconds of being on their feet in the position. The kid from northwest should have been credited for a takedown before they came to their feet, but since the official missed that call, he probably felt obligated to let the action continue.

The potential for danger was obvious. In my opinion, the official could have prevented this.

You are correct in that there is NO requirement that the defending wrestler try to defend himself. They generally do try of course but there is no requirement as such.

As I tell kids in the pre-meet talk, if you take your opponent off the mat you are responsible for his safe return. There are no exceptions.

Think about the idea that the defensive wrestler twists in mid-air to avoid coming to the mat hard and in the process he breaks his arm in breaking the fall. The move might not have been a slam but the kid is still injured and out of the match. What if it is your kid?

No, an awkward landing defines nothing. I feel very safe in saying that a defending wrestler can not cause a slam by failing to take any action.
Again, if you take the opponent off the mat, you are responsible for his safe return.

Also keep in mind that an official does not have the advantage of slo-mo or replay. The rules say that a slam must be called without hesitation.

Thanks for the info. and clarification.

Had the action been called a slam, I would not have argued it (from either perspective). I do hate seeing the better guy DQ'd for a "slam" when it seemed unintentional and that the opponent could have avoided it by responding more conventionally. But I know judging intent, etc. is not part of the rule.

Shoes strings no longer have to be taped, or secured by velcro straps as the rule used to state. It now states that shoe strings must be secure and all the eyes must be laced. Most officials will allow one opportunity for shoes to be re-tied AND double knotted (but not for lacing). Any incident afterwards is a 1 pt. technical violation AND injury time.

So its really up to the ref. I have seen SEVERAL who do not give one "freebie". I hate when things like that are not consistent across the board. Shouldnt be a a gray area. Either you get a 1pt violation or not. Thank you.

So its really up to the ref. I have seen SEVERAL who do not give one "freebie". I hate when things like that are not consistent across the board. Shouldnt be a a gray area. Either you get a 1pt violation or not. Thank you.

Not as much as you seem to think.
There are really several of things to be aware of.
In the pre-meet, one of the things we ask is "are all wrestlers properly dressed, equipped, and ready to wrestle?". When the coach answer that they are, that means they will be ready to wrestle when called.
When a wrestler reports to the table and walks on the mat, he must meet the requirements of the rule book. If we see a shoe that is not laced up properly, is not secured, or anything else, there is a TV called and he has 1 1/2 minutes of injury time to correct the problem.
Once wrestling starts we are told to make the assumption that the shoes were secured (because the coach said they were ready to go). If a shoe becomes un-tied, it is generally assumed that it was through the act of wrestling (just like a head gear that comes un-done). We stop the action when possible and instruct the wrestler to tied and double knot the laces. If it was to come un-tied a second time, it obviously was not secured and the TV plus injury time penalty comes into play.
All of this pre-supposes that we did not have a case where the wrestler un-tied the shoe or something like that. Perhaps that (or the wrestler was not ready to wrestle as in the first situation) is the reason they did not get the "freebie".
Also, if a shoe come off the foot of the wrestler it was not secured and the penalties come into play.
Hopefully that answers whatever you saw that you thought was not right/fair.

Not as much as you seem to think.
There are really several of things to be aware of.
In the pre-meet, one of the things we ask is "are all wrestlers properly dressed, equipped, and ready to wrestle?". When the coach answer that they are, that means they will be ready to wrestle when called.
When a wrestler reports to the table and walks on the mat, he must meet the requirements of the rule book. If we see a shoe that is not laced up properly, is not secured, or anything else, there is a TV called and he has 1 1/2 minutes of injury time to correct the problem.
Once wrestling starts we are told to make the assumption that the shoes were secured (because the coach said they were ready to go). If a shoe becomes un-tied, it is generally assumed that it was through the act of wrestling (just like a head gear that comes un-done). We stop the action when possible and instruct the wrestler to tied and double knot the laces. If it was to come un-tied a second time, it obviously was not secured and the TV plus injury time penalty comes into play.
All of this pre-supposes that we did not have a case where the wrestler un-tied the shoe or something like that. Perhaps that (or the wrestler was not ready to wrestle as in the first situation) is the reason they did not get the "freebie".
Also, if a shoe come off the foot of the wrestler it was not secured and the penalties come into play.
Hopefully that answers whatever you saw that you thought was not right/fair.

Thank you. That sounds fair, now to get all refs on the same page. I have seen several give up a point on the first time of them coming untied mid match. But you will always have those refs in any sport who interpret things differently. Hopefully that doesn't cost anyone an important match.

Thank you. That sounds fair, now to get all refs on the same page. I have seen several give up a point on the first time of them coming untied mid match. But you will always have those refs in any sport who interpret things differently. Hopefully that doesn't cost anyone an important match.

This isn't an interpretation issue. It's a lack of knowledge or unwilling to pay attention to other officials or at the meetings issue.

I attend the local officials meetings from time to time. I attended some meetings the year after the tape rule was axed to see how it would be handled. They specifically outlined the scenario as Mr. Behrens described. Since that time I've attended more meetings and I think it's been brought up at a couple other meetings. I know it was brought up last year. If an official isn't calling it that way, then that official isn't doing his job and preparing like he should.

I have a laced up all the way question.
If the ref does not call it at the table at the beginning of the match, can he make the call later in the match?
I have seen it handled differently on 2 occasions.
1st time- Match is tied with 30 seconds left, coach B goes to table informs ref that wrestler A shoe is not laced to the top. Ref checks (it is taped around the ankle and the tape is taken off to check) ref sees it awards Wrestler B 1 point.

Same coach a year later.
2nd Time- Wrestler B is down 1 point with 20 seconds left. Coach B goes to the table says Wrestler A's shoes are not laced all the way up. Ref says, well then I missed it when he checked in, as long as they stay secured the rest of the match it is fine.

I have a laced up all the way question.
If the ref does not call it at the table at the beginning of the match, can he make the call later in the match?
I have seen it handled differently on 2 occasions.
1st time- Match is tied with 30 seconds left, coach B goes to table informs ref that wrestler A shoe is not laced to the top. Ref checks (it is taped around the ankle and the tape is taken off to check) ref sees it awards Wrestler B 1 point.

Same coach a year later.
2nd Time- Wrestler B is down 1 point with 20 seconds left. Coach B goes to the table says Wrestler A's shoes are not laced all the way up. Ref says, well then I missed it when he checked in, as long as they stay secured the rest of the match it is fine.

Which situation is correct?

The one where someone slaps coach of wrestler B upside the head for trying to win playing "dirty pool".

I have a laced up all the way question.
If the ref does not call it at the table at the beginning of the match, can he make the call later in the match?
I have seen it handled differently on 2 occasions.
1st time- Match is tied with 30 seconds left, coach B goes to table informs ref that wrestler A shoe is not laced to the top. Ref checks (it is taped around the ankle and the tape is taken off to check) ref sees it awards Wrestler B 1 point.

Same coach a year later.
2nd Time- Wrestler B is down 1 point with 20 seconds left. Coach B goes to the table says Wrestler A's shoes are not laced all the way up. Ref says, well then I missed it when he checked in, as long as they stay secured the rest of the match it is fine.

Which situation is correct?

In the second example the official is incorrect in not assessing the technical violation penalty, and injury time, if it's observable. In the first example if there is tape around the top laces (eyelets) how would that coach know they weren't laced? I would not dig looking for problems if it wasn't easily already observable.

I have a laced up all the way question.
If the ref does not call it at the table at the beginning of the match, can he make the call later in the match?
I have seen it handled differently on 2 occasions.
1st time- Match is tied with 30 seconds left, coach B goes to table informs ref that wrestler A shoe is not laced to the top. Ref checks (it is taped around the ankle and the tape is taken off to check) ref sees it awards Wrestler B 1 point.

Same coach a year later.
2nd Time- Wrestler B is down 1 point with 20 seconds left. Coach B goes to the table says Wrestler A's shoes are not laced all the way up. Ref says, well then I missed it when he checked in, as long as they stay secured the rest of the match it is fine.

Which situation is correct?

Neither. Not taking tape off to see if they are laced. Plus if tape is covering it then it's safe far as I'm concerned. The reason they want them all the way up is because of safety.

I don't check for laces when wrestlers come out. They are supposed to be properly equipped before they come out. Unfortunately if they are caught after the match has started they will be penalized.

Does a wrestler need to be standing on the line in the circle ready to go before his injury time is runs out if he was hurt and wrestlers were in neutral position? Usually a ref, trainer or coach will ask the wrestler if he can continue once he is notified that his injury time has run out and then they will restart them or he will default. We had a wrestler get poked in the eye while in the neutral position because the other guy raked his face. Our guy immediately turns his back and covers his eye. The ref starts injury time and says he never saw the poke so he didn't award any penalty points even though my wrestlers eye was beet red. The ref says at 28 seconds that my guy needs to be standing on the line before injury time is up or he defaults the match. The ref doesn't have the watch in hand and the clock is being kept by kids at the scores table so no count down is being done. After the trainer is done evaluating the wrestler, our guy goes back to the center to wrestle. The ref asks the table how much injury time was left. They said zero so the refs tells the wrestlers to take their ankle bans off because the match was over. In over 20 years of coaching I had never heard that you had to be back in center ready to go before injury time is up. Is this true? None of the other refs at the tourney could believe he did that and no one was really sure if that was a real rule.
Bottom line, it was a semi finals match, our guy gets poked in the eye and when we aren't on the line when injury time runs out we have to default the match????? I told the ref I had never heard that before and he says it's 5th time he had called it and once at a districts like he was bragging about it.

Walt, you know it's bad when other refs are laughing about the call and telling me that maybe we need to teach the eye poke/face rake set up and win when other guy runs out of injury time. All I could do is laugh about it after the fact, but I was upset for my kid. They work too hard to have a match end that way. You can ask J. Schutte or Puska about it.

can a wrestler drop to a lower weight class after jan 15 if they have not wrestled at that weight or made scratch at that weight

ie wrestle at 110 all season and drop to 104 on 1/23

If the weight loss plan allows for it, you can drop to a lower weight class as late as the Sectional weigh-ins (have to make scratch for first weigh-in). If you're dropping one weight class, the answer is probably yes.

can a wrestler drop to a lower weight class after jan 15 if they have not wrestled at that weight or made scratch at that weight

ie wrestle at 110 all season and drop to 104 on 1/23

Yes,
Considering you used middle school weights as the example the middle school rule is they can wrestle whatever they weigh in at. High school has a weight loss plan, middle school does not. They still must make scratch before getting the allowance.

Yes,
Considering you used middle school weights as the example the middle school rule is they can wrestle whatever they weigh in at. High school has a weight loss plan, middle school does not. They still must make scratch before getting the allowance.

Good catch on the Jr. High weights. I don't see anything in the Jr. High rules that requires making scratch weight before using the growth allowance.

I watch this 2x this weekend at OAC GS qualifier at Oregon Clay. My son was running a arm with wraist and ran the kid over. Kid was on back for 10 seconds or more but couldn't get shoulder all the way down. So my started to lift his head and setup to make the shoulder go down and pin the kid. The ref stopped the match gave us 3 back points and gave other kid a penalty point. His reasoning was we can set up after running a bar over. I never heard of this or ever seen it called before. The kid wasn't crying, wasn't bent in bad shape, or arms/bent wrong. Look like normal bar. These are 11 and 12 year old kids. This ref called it very next match on different kid and didn't explain the penalty point to the other dad like he did me. Is this something new in rule books or has it been a old rule just not enforced by other refs.

My kid was in the finals. Blood time for the other kid. He walks over and sits down on the floor in front of the table, official walks by him and to the table to make sure blood time is started, assistant ref is looking on the mat and on my kid for blood, coach comes over and hands his wrestler his puffer, then goes to get a paper towel, nose plug, etc. The kid sat there pulling on his inhaler for a minute maybe, then they took care of the blood, them he was ready to go.

My kid was in the finals. Blood time for the other kid. He walks over and sits down on the floor in front of the table, official walks by him and to the table to make sure blood time is started, assistant ref is looking on the mat and on my kid for blood, coach comes over and hands his wrestler his puffer, then goes to get a paper towel, nose plug, etc. The kid sat there pulling on his inhaler for a minute maybe, then they took care of the blood, them he was ready to go.

WTF???

This is a good scenario that needs clarification.... I will send this question to Columbus for a clarification. As a Ref, I know that Blood time supersedes all other time. I guess what I'd purpose to you is, coaches give kids water and talk to their wrestler while the blood time runs for the opponent all the time...