Fissile:Have a look just part of the collection of cars owned by the late Tito, dictator of communist Yugoslavia.

That looks less like part of a "collection" and more like part of his working motor fleet.

There's some interesting stuff regarding Tito in Richard Burton's diaries, of all places. Seems that Burton whored himself out for a biopic of Tito and he and Liz were treated to some Yugo-style high living in the bargain.

LewDux:wildbill0712: I really don't get the 'OMG, he had a big bathtub and helicopter pad' outrage. How is this that much different than the hundreds of politicians in the US that miraculously become multi-millionaires while in office?

ransack.:dfacto: As an American living in eastern Europe this underscores something important that I noticed a long time ago, and which is a really sad indictment of US culture:

These people get by with shiat wages, just had their government try to strongarm them into line, but they fought and bled for their freedom and won. Then they take over the Big Bad's property and go through it like a museum. What would have happened if this was the USA? In most cities my bet is that people earning double would rampage, loot and burn the house within the day, while a crowd stands outside and chants U-S-A, U-S-A!

Despite the bad reputation the Slavic countries have due to being behind the Iron Curtain for so long, most of the people in them are still nice and cultured. For the wages they earn and the places they live they far exceed what you would expect from a US citizen. In my city you have areas which look like pure ghettos, with rundown soviet apartment blocks everywhere. The occupants earn about 200 euro per month on average, and crime is still almost nonexistant and you can park your car and walk around where you need to go. Whenever I go to those places I can't help but think that in the states that kind of place would be an urban warzone. We really need to fix our shiat in the US, because some supposedly pinko commie slavs are showing us up every day.

Mind if I ask why you moved to an eastern European impoverished ghetto?

BeesNuts:spawn73: ekdikeo4: ... so "protestors" just took over this country's government, and they are completely restrained when visitng the deposed leader's residence, choosing to treat it like a photo op and vacation visit?

what doesn't make sense here?

You don't make sense.

That people are able to organise over a 3 month period in a democratic and civil society. You think this is strange?

Yes? Excessively strange and almost wholly unique in the history of human society. In the face of enough anger to cause a revolution, the people (not as individuals but as a seething mass of revolutionary fervor) can hold it together enough to avoid cutting heads off, holding public executions after (if we're lucky) show trials, or burning the infrastructure to the ground?

Where else has this happened that I can see how normal this is? Typically, regime changes are bloody, messy, destructive affairs, followed by a systematic and symbolic dismantling of everything held sacred by the old guard.

This is super impressive to me.

Well, fair enough that you don't remember the aftermath of WW2 in Western-Europe where the Germans didn't fight, but rather just left.

But you're obviously also to young to remember the fall of the Berlin wall.

Romania had a show trial, but not under the premises you put up. That show trial was still rational, calculated and orderly. It was done because Securitate was still offering organised resistance, and there were a real fear that they would liberate Ceaușescu. Furthermore, they obviously hoped the fighting would stop with him dead.

Drawing a parallel to Mousolini. There weren't a show trial, he was in an orderly fashion put in jail. The Nazis then send in the SS and liberated him, reinstating him in power in Northern Italy (In Trento perhaps?). Next time they got a hold of him, they made sure to kill him. Lesson learned. ;)

spawn73:TwistedFark: spawn73: "When he took power in 2010, the country had two possible futures: One was under his authortiran rule, the other was as a member of the EU."

Why do mods continue to greenlight Daily Fail articles?

How the fark would Ukraine be able to join the EU? That's not on the table at all. It hasn't ever been on the table.

farking Daily Fail journalist are anti-EU morons, and they're perpetuating this to their equally ignorant readers.

I think they are using the word "join" very loosely. Obviously signing an association agreement or a free trade agreement isn't in the same ballpark as becoming a member state.

That being said, the agreement with Ukraine (and the other Eastern European countries) didn't include, or exclude a path to EU membership. So, it's not a very sweet deal for them. Given that the association agreements offered to the Western Balkans did include a path to membership, the logical conclusion is that they (the EU) just kicked this decision down the road so as to not get into a thorny political situation with Russia.

IMHO the economic crisis, and the situation in Greece in particular, has changed the situation a lot for comming applicants. Not only is Ukraine huge and poor, they're also awfully corrupt.

So kicking it down the road as you put it, probably hasn't been a hard decision to make.

Turkey is btw. on a path to EU membership since 1999, and we all know when they're going to join. ;)

Oh, I don't think it was a particularly hard decision to make, but I'm stating that I believe that public whinging has far less of an influence on EU policy than people perceive it has, especially if someone just reads conservative rags from the UK (and that's all that is ever linked here in Fark).

As you stated - we all know how Turkey's EU membership is going (and didn't they sign an association agreement or something equivalent like back in the farking 60's?) so I wouldn't put it past the EU leadership to dangle membership like a carrot in front of someone's face, particularly if it meant they could coheres them into operating against Russia's national interests. After all, it costs them nothing to do so.

TwistedFark:I don't know about you, but when you've got the US and Russia who can't usually agree if water is wet saying the entire affair was rotten, then I think you have to take a step back and give her a huge benefit of the doubt.

That's easy to explain. She was a pretty pro-Russian politician, siding with Russia and Putin in a number of situations, and against Yushchenko himself. That's why Russia was showing its dismay in the imprisonment.

As for the US, trials were happening under Yanukovich, who was supposed to be a pro-Russian candidate, so, obviously, it's not as if he could do anything right.

That doesn't say anything about the merits of the case, of course. She may be completely innocent or completely guilty of everything. I'm a cynic in that area and I pretty much consider most of the declarations on legality of trials by US/Russia politically motivated. I doubt actual merits of the case had any significant importance in their declarations.

My own comment was made rather to ruffle some feathers here, for the majority of posts base their opinion about the situation on who was "pro-western", and therefore good and correct, or "pro-Russian" and therefore evil and wrong. I wanted to show that two pro-western "white knights" could bitterly hate each other and sabotage each other at any cost and at expense of the country.

Anyway, on the grounds of economic policy, she's always been the smart one out of a lousy bunch. I won't say (because I don't know) if she's squeaky clean in her personal life, but as a politician, she certainly did better for her country than nearly everyone who came before her did.

I would actually love to see any of her economic achievements. Could you provide some links/explanations? While it's not hard to be better in the economy than the bunch of doofuses who are Ukrainian politicians, both ruling party and opposition, I haven't heard about much of anything achieved by her economically. Didn't pay much attention in the 2007-2010 period, though, so I'm interested to learn more.

DrBenway:1) That was a revolution? and 2) There wasn't a whole lot left to loot, was there?

For 1: it was very similar to a revolution in that all the organs of power and organisation have disappeared/dissolved, creating the vacuum of power, and people had to self-organize in very limited amount of time and under pressure. The similarities in the processes are significant.

For 2: there is always something to loot, but the thing is, that it's quite often that people self-organize into some resemblance of order rather quickly. It is a surprising thing for us cynics, but somehow people willing and capable to organize others appear in critical situations quite often.

DrBenway:Fissile: Have a look just part of the collection of cars owned by the late Tito, dictator of communist Yugoslavia.

That looks less like part of a "collection" and more like part of his working motor fleet.

There's some interesting stuff regarding Tito in Richard Burton's diaries, of all places. Seems that Burton whored himself out for a biopic of Tito and he and Liz were treated to some Yugo-style high living in the bargain.

All of the cars were "official", including the Lincolns, Cadillacs, and sports cars.

dfacto:As an American living in eastern Europe this underscores something important that I noticed a long time ago, and which is a really sad indictment of US culture:

These people get by with shiat wages, just had their government try to strongarm them into line, but they fought and bled for their freedom and won. Then they take over the Big Bad's property and go through it like a museum. What would have happened if this was the USA? In most cities my bet is that people earning double would rampage, loot and burn the house within the day, while a crowd stands outside and chants U-S-A, U-S-A!

Despite the bad reputation the Slavic countries have due to being behind the Iron Curtain for so long, most of the people in them are still nice and cultured. For the wages they earn and the places they live they far exceed what you would expect from a US citizen. In my city you have areas which look like pure ghettos, with rundown soviet apartment blocks everywhere. The occupants earn about 200 euro per month on average, and crime is still almost nonexistant and you can park your car and walk around where you need to go. Whenever I go to those places I can't help but think that in the states that kind of place would be an urban warzone. We really need to fix our shiat in the US, because some supposedly pinko commie slavs are showing us up every day.

This. I thought that if there were protests in the US, scruffy bagger carry types would show up and help the cops/Blackwater shoot the hippie/loser/moran unMurican protestors.

Grahor:TwistedFark: I don't know about you, but when you've got the US and Russia who can't usually agree if water is wet saying the entire affair was rotten, then I think you have to take a step back and give her a huge benefit of the doubt.

That's easy to explain. She was a pretty pro-Russian politician, siding with Russia and Putin in a number of situations, and against Yushchenko himself. That's why Russia was showing its dismay in the imprisonment.

As for the US, trials were happening under Yanukovich, who was supposed to be a pro-Russian candidate, so, obviously, it's not as if he could do anything right.

That doesn't say anything about the merits of the case, of course. She may be completely innocent or completely guilty of everything. I'm a cynic in that area and I pretty much consider most of the declarations on legality of trials by US/Russia politically motivated. I doubt actual merits of the case had any significant importance in their declarations.

My own comment was made rather to ruffle some feathers here, for the majority of posts base their opinion about the situation on who was "pro-western", and therefore good and correct, or "pro-Russian" and therefore evil and wrong. I wanted to show that two pro-western "white knights" could bitterly hate each other and sabotage each other at any cost and at expense of the country.

Anyway, on the grounds of economic policy, she's always been the smart one out of a lousy bunch. I won't say (because I don't know) if she's squeaky clean in her personal life, but as a politician, she certainly did better for her country than nearly everyone who came before her did.

I would actually love to see any of her economic achievements. Could you provide some links/explanations? While it's not hard to be better in the economy than the bunch of doofuses who are Ukrainian politicians, both ruling party and opposition, I haven't heard about much of anything achieved by her economically. Didn't pay much attention in the 2007-2010 ...

Key economic achievements of Tymoshenko's government: Increased salaries, pensions, scholarships; Fulfilled one of the paragraphs of social program from Yushchenko's election agenda on support for new families: in 2005 a social aid for a newborn child was increased 12 times; "Contraband stop" campaign was launched. The campaign was accompanied by eradication of shadow schemes in business; Call for nationalization and re-privatization of more than 3000 enterprises. Eventually the government nationalized and then re-privatized country's biggest metallurgical plant "Kryvorizhstal". In October 2005 it was sold for $4 billion to a new owner, which was an impressive amount compared to $8.5 billion received by the government from privatization between 1991 and 2004; On June 16, 2005 president Viktor Yushchenko, speaker of the Verkhovna Rada Volodymyr Lytvyn and Yulia Tymoshenko signed a memorandum on guarantees of ownership rights and ensuring lawfulness for their implementation. According to Yushchenko, "Ukrainian government brought murky privatization practice to the end"; Reaction to crises on internal market[edit] In April-May 2005 Ukraine faced so called "meat, sugar and petrol crises" when prices for the abovementioned products went up by 30-50% over a couple of weeks. These crises allegedly resulted from a cartel conspiracy and it took Tymoshenko's government about 1,5 month to get the prices down to the initial level with the help of "goods intervention" mechanism; The meat crisis was caused by increased demand for meat as a result of increased salaries. Tymoshenko's government lifted duties on imported meat, which dropped the speculative prices Tymoshenko's political opponents (Yushchenko and Yanukovych) kept criticizing her for importing "low quality meet". At that time Tymoshenko's government made a decision to increase production of poultry, which eventually made Ukraine a poultry exporter. The sugar and petrol crises were caused by a "cartel conspiracy" which increased prices for the abovementioned goods by 30-50%. Tymoshenko's government organized import of cane sugar and dropped duties on oil products import. In a couple of months the prices stabilized. In 2006 Anti Monopoly Committee, who investigated the "sugar crisis" issued a conclusion which said that it was a cartel monopoly with a participation of Petro Poroshenko, then-head of the National Council of Security and Defense. In May 2005, at the height of the petrol crisis, Viktor Yushchenko publicly sharply criticized Tymoshenko for "pressure on oil traders".I also believe she has a P.H.D. in economics... at least she's written a dissertation.

wildbill0712:I really don't get the 'OMG, he had a big bathtub and helicopter pad' outrage. How is this that much different than the hundreds of politicians in the US that miraculously become multi-millionaires while in office?

And his own golf course. You would think he would be more careful with the people's money and just fly to Hawaii when he wants to play a round.

shokokuphoenix:Those are goshawks... The brown ones are juveniles and the gray blue ones are adults. The only reason you'd kill and display dead goshawks like that would be if you were a landskeeper who kept game birds for hunting and didn't like the raptorial competition. They display them like that in order to 'scare off' other hawks (hint: it doesn't work). Poor goshawks... that breaks my heart. :(

That's the first government, less than a year, right after the elections. I wouldn't call it particularly spectacular. Budget allocations and cartel breaking through importation are, while indubitably positive, pretty much basic governing, everyday stuff, not particularly complex or demanding.

"Call for nationalization and re-privatization of more than 3000 enterprises" sounds a bit fishy. Yes, previous privatizations were shadowy and outright criminal sometimes, nationalization is pretty much legalized theft, isn't it? And nationalization/re-privatization is a wonderful tool to punish your enemies and reward your friends, eh.

Sure, in case of Kryvorizhstal it worked out pretty well, so she has that going for her, at least.

"At that time Tymoshenko's government made a decision to increase production of poultry, which eventually made Ukraine a poultry exporter." - well, it's a good decision, but, again, somehow I don't see it being all that seriously economistic. :)

That's pretty much it, though. And considering that her second government (2.5 years?) achieved pretty much bumpkins, while Transparency International shows, that corruption perception index have dropped from 2.7 to 2.2 (the larger the index, the less corruption) - a spectacularly bad result, as corruption's perception goes.

>>I also believe she has a P.H.D. in economics... at least she's written a dissertation.<<

Well, that certainly puts her ahead, comparing to Klitschko's Ph.D. in Sports or Tyahnybok's Ph.D. in fighting "Moscow-Jewish mafia". Unfortunately, Ukrainian political arena is pretty thin on economists and good politicians overall...

Grahor:That's the first government, less than a year, right after the elections. I wouldn't call it particularly spectacular. Budget allocations and cartel breaking through importation are, while indubitably positive, pretty much basic governing, everyday stuff, not particularly complex or demanding.

TFA sucks... Sure, there's a picture of a nice house and then one of a jacuzzi. Then there's more exterior shots of the same nice house bug farking deal. You wanna generate some outrage, then show me some outrage worthy pictures.

Jesus, the shiat they call "joirnalism" nowadays... Lazy bullshiat. I have no idea if the other pics in this thread are from this house, but If they are, the farker responsible has already done about 10x the work of whoever out together this shiatty story, and for that I thank him(her).

TwistedFark:Grahor: That's the first government, less than a year, right after the elections. I wouldn't call it particularly spectacular. Budget allocations and cartel breaking through importation are, while indubitably positive, pretty much basic governing, everyday stuff, not particularly complex or demanding.

Move goalposts much?

I'm sorry? Basic governing right after reelections is somehow an exceptional achievement? I've accepted nationalization and re-privatization of Kryvorizhstal as a pretty noticeable achievement indeed, but I was hoping that there would be a bit more exceptional achievements.

NEDM:narkor: Yulia Tymoshenko was believed to be the richest person in Ukraine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yulia_Tymoshenko - so it's interesting that social media is having a go at the person who replaced her for being a rich bastard.

Did she get rich before or DURING her time as a government leader? The details are important, here.

Considering the reports of people in the crowd saying "she doesn't speak for us" (BBC timeline yesterday, including twitter reports of those in the crowd), and the fact that some Ukrainians consider her to be almost as corrupt as Yanuk(can't spell the rest of his name), I'm gonna go with during. Also consider the fact that the West (EU and US) refused to deal with Ukraine on the matters of trade and such (still confused as to whether or not they had an EU membership pending, but I know there were major trade matters, such as an EU/IMF financial bailout) until she was released from prison. The West tends to be pretty big on human rights (except when we ourselves are violating them), but it's pretty rare that the West will withhold necessary assistance from the people over a single individual being imprisoned when the vast majority of their convictions have not been contested by international courts (which Tymoshenko's were not--the point of contention was allowing her to go to Germany for medical care for a back injury).

lazymojo:LewDux: lazymojo: My understanding is that Yulia Tymoshenko is very pro-Russian as well. I believe she was the one who negotiated those corrupt gas deals with Russia before Yanukovich took power.

Whoa, she may be more not less corrupt (or practical, if you like her), but "very pro-Russian" she isn't

???[static.guim.co.uk image 460x276]

google her and Putin to see practically a photo album of her sucking up to Russia after signing billions of Ukrainian dollars over to Russian for insanely inflated natural gas in 2010.

Mikey1969:TFA sucks... Sure, there's a picture of a nice house and then one of a jacuzzi. Then there's more exterior shots of the same nice house bug farking deal. You wanna generate some outrage, then show me some outrage worthy pictures.

Jesus, the shiat they call "joirnalism" nowadays... Lazy bullshiat. I have no idea if the other pics in this thread are from this house, but If they are, the farker responsible has already done about 10x the work of whoever out together this shiatty story, and for that I thank him(her).

This is the Daily Fail we're talking about. Does anyone call that "journalism?"

Canton:Mikey1969: TFA sucks... Sure, there's a picture of a nice house and then one of a jacuzzi. Then there's more exterior shots of the same nice house bug farking deal. You wanna generate some outrage, then show me some outrage worthy pictures.

Jesus, the shiat they call "joirnalism" nowadays... Lazy bullshiat. I have no idea if the other pics in this thread are from this house, but If they are, the farker responsible has already done about 10x the work of whoever out together this shiatty story, and for that I thank him(her).

This is the Daily Fail we're talking about. Does anyone call that "journalism?"

The sad part is that this is the one place where the Daily Fail can actually shine... Their layout and style sucks 99.99% of the time, they have an even higher failure rate than Cracked, but this is the kind of story where it should actually be one of their success stories, an opportunity for a lot of big pretty pics, without a lot of real descriptions needed.

ransack.:BMulligan: Emposter: Why does Ukraine still have statues of Lenin after all this time?

I don't know - why does Seattle?

Wikipedia has an article detailing the history of the statue you pictured. So can you answer his question or are you just here to be a smartass and not contribute to the conversation in any meaningful way? Because I'm getting awful sick and fed up with constantly wading through the shiat of your ilk.

BeesNuts:Hiro-ACiD: Lsherm: I was wondering what was keeping them from kicking in the windows to get to the dining room - or what was keeping them from stealing everything that wasn't nailed down.

Maybe Ukrainians are just well behaved mobbers?

Why would you expect them to behave like the thieves they're removing from their government? That would make far less sense than peacefully occupying the grounds as they have and showing the world what has been stolen from them...

Because revolutionary mobs are known for doing things that make sense and having no regrets when the dust settles...

OK, first of all, they were not a mob. They were led by the actual elected opposition. They were organized to the point where they had tactical plans and logistics ready to go. They had a coherent strategy. Under no definition can they be labeled a mob.

Grahor:There is absolutely no doubt that Yanukovich's government is incredibly corrupt, but I call the image with light sources, at least, a fake. The reason: there is a grammatical error in the header - "contact" instead of "contract". :)

Okay, that doesn't make it a fake, but it raises questions. Like, what the hell, $42 millions and you couldn't find someone to proofread the freakin thing?

Also, the description for items is incredibly basic, like "the lamp for main room", etc. Shouldn't there be at least the name of manufacturer?

So that's the route you're going now? It's all fake, a conspiracy plot organized by the people of Ukraine? The whole place is a cardboard filmstage filled with Western backed actors?

If anything, I'm surprised about the detail in the listings; why would he list it all if he didn't need healthy accountancy? Almost none of the wealth was rightfully his anyway, and if he wanted some cash all he did was ask someone or stamp another document. My guess is he wanted to be able to brag, simple as that.

flexflint:Grahor: There is absolutely no doubt that Yanukovich's government is incredibly corrupt, but I call the image with light sources, at least, a fake. The reason: there is a grammatical error in the header - "contact" instead of "contract". :)

Okay, that doesn't make it a fake, but it raises questions. Like, what the hell, $42 millions and you couldn't find someone to proofread the freakin thing?

Also, the description for items is incredibly basic, like "the lamp for main room", etc. Shouldn't there be at least the name of manufacturer?

So that's the route you're going now? It's all fake, a conspiracy plot organized by the people of Ukraine? The whole place is a cardboard filmstage filled with Western backed actors?

If anything, I'm surprised about the detail in the listings; why would he list it all if he didn't need healthy accountancy? Almost none of the wealth was rightfully his anyway, and if he wanted some cash all he did was ask someone or stamp another document. My guess is he wanted to be able to brag, simple as that.

He was jailed as a teenager for pickpocketing, he didn't want to take chances any more "Vsio v zakone"

ekdikeo4:... so "protestors" just took over this country's government, and they are completely restrained when visitng the deposed leader's residence, choosing to treat it like a photo op and vacation visit?

what doesn't make sense here?

I think it's a number of factors.

1. They won almost instantaneously, skipping directly from "getting the shiat beat out of us by helmeted soldiers" to "dictator snuck out in the middle of the night" without going through the crucial "tide is turning, now we bring the fight to THEM" phase that would have meant that their torch-wielding mob contained actual torches.

2. The protests weren't (really) about this guy's mega-billionaire lifestyle. He probably wasn't living any more opulently than they thought he was.

3. It's one thing to sit your peasant ass down on the plushy presidential sofa, or make yourself a drink from the bar. But it'd be kind of a dick move to smash the crystal toilet before other rioters have had a chance to ooh and ahh over it.

4. The recently re-legitimized (and already in-place) authorities clearly have guys on the scene, and they're obviously taking a pragmatic approach to damage control. I'd guess that it's already much harder to sneak in and get a selfie with the tiny giraffe than it was yesterday.

So people are wandering around the ostentatiously opulent erstwhile abode of Chicken Kiev (love that name btw Subby) seemingly in good spirits as recently released from prison ex-president and leader of the opposition Yulia T speaks to the crowds at the barricades while still sort of president Viktor Y flees to the eastern, more Russified section of Ukraine in order to try to consolidate his power base anew.

Stone Meadow:So, what's the over-under on this guy's Presidency ending up against the wall, Ceaușescu-style?

Pretty low. Nations serious about EU membership don't shoot people, even politicians. Not to mention Ceauşescu had a lot more time to do a lot more damage. Villa Chicken Kiev is nothing compared to the Palace of Parliament in Bucharest.

On the other hand, it's a fair bet Chicken Kiev has a one way trip to the Hague in his future the minute he's apprehended.

LewDux:flexflint: Grahor: There is absolutely no doubt that Yanukovich's government is incredibly corrupt, but I call the image with light sources, at least, a fake. The reason: there is a grammatical error in the header - "contact" instead of "contract". :)

Okay, that doesn't make it a fake, but it raises questions. Like, what the hell, $42 millions and you couldn't find someone to proofread the freakin thing?

Also, the description for items is incredibly basic, like "the lamp for main room", etc. Shouldn't there be at least the name of manufacturer?

So that's the route you're going now? It's all fake, a conspiracy plot organized by the people of Ukraine? The whole place is a cardboard filmstage filled with Western backed actors?

If anything, I'm surprised about the detail in the listings; why would he list it all if he didn't need healthy accountancy? Almost none of the wealth was rightfully his anyway, and if he wanted some cash all he did was ask someone or stamp another document. My guess is he wanted to be able to brag, simple as that.

He was jailed as a teenager for pickpocketing, he didn't want to take chances any more "Vsio v zakone"