Monday, August 2, 2010

Did the Giants do enough at the deadline?

Starting pitcher:
M.C. O'Connor

I mentioned in a comment yesterday that the Yankees, possessors of the best offense in baseball, felt the need to go out and get two hitters at the deadline. They were rumored to be interested in Adam Dunn, but wound up with Lance Berkman and Austin Kearns instead. Here's quote from River Avenue Blues, the excellent Yankees blog:

While the team has sat in first place since mid-June, there are always opportunities to improve.

Wow. That is the mind-set over there in Yankees-land. First place ain't enough. You have to improve. I guess that's why they ran out of fingers and toes (for all their rings) in the Bronx. The Padres knew they had a weak offense, and went out and got Ryan Ludwick and Miguel Tejada. Ludwick is a smart move. The jury is out on Tejada, he'll probably hurt them defensively, and it remains to be seen if he can contribute the power they are looking for, but it is at least an effort at improving. The Dodgers made a flurry of moves, but until they start hitting as a team they are going to flounder. Ted Lilly won't help if they only score 2 runs per game--look at Clayton Kershaw. (I sure hope their offense doesn't get back on track.) The Giants had an obvious bullpen problem, and they got two guys who look like they can help. In fact, FNG* Javier Lopez got a big out in the 8th yesterday, just what the doctor ordered.

But--and there's always a but--the Giants still need help on offense. Think about it: the best team and most successful franchise in the HISTORY OF THE SPORT made an effort to improve their offense (as well as their bullpen). What do they know that the Giants don't? The Yankees have an enviable track record of winning. They are doing something right. I think that something is the ceaseless quest for upgrading at every roster spot.

The best can also afford like no other team to make themselves better, but the point is, just because the offense finally seems perfectly adequate doesn't mean the Giants shouldn't keep trying to improve it . . . I'm not trying to be a Debbie Downer, I'm just saying there are plenty of scenarios in which the Giants' league-best offensive output in July falls off in August and September. Why not make a move or two to prevent those scenarios from happening? If When the Giants win the World Series, I'll still argue they need another bat.

Wow. That's hardcore. But I tell you what, I'm with him. Even if we are in the post-season this year, I'll be hollering about how we don't have enough goddamn hitting. I've been hollering about it all year long so I won't quit now. You come to RMC for consistency, dammit, and I aims to please.

Here's a few more thoughts, this time from the smart and insightful Triples Alley:

Let’s face it- most of the hitters we have on the roster really just aren’t very good. But we’re getting some brilliant production from two unlikely players- Aubrey Huff and Andres Torres, both of whom should receive MVP consideration at the end of the year. There’s a possibility that both players have reached new standards of performance, but…there’s also a possibility that we’ve caught lightning in a bottle. Now is the time to go for broke rather than rebuild or stand pat; now is the time to make a move that ensures our chances of making the playoffs. This means that we should not sit and twiddle our thumbs, hoping for Pablo Sandoval to figure things out and hit like he did last year. Huff, Torres and Posey cannot carry the offense by themselves, although they’re doing an awfully good job at it. We need a bat, and we need one now. It doesn’t have to be an elite hitter a la Adam Dunn, although that would be nice. No, a simple above average hitter would do the trick.

To be fair to Triples Alley, he spent most of a paragraph getting really excited about the 2010 Giants before throwing out his "but". He, like me and the aforementioned Mr. Malo, is a fan. We loves us some Giants. And we are excited about this club, especially as it looks more and more like we will be one of the best teams in the league. So I'll leave it to you, dear readers. Did the Giants do enough at the trade deadline?

20 comments:

The short answer is "no." The medium size answer is "we shall see."The Yankees have obscene amounts of money to spend and you can't really compare their situation to anyone else. The world championship is theirs by default; they just happen to not win it from time to time.

I like what OGC said about the playoffs. Strikeout pitchers and running (not even base stealing) win it. Now, Andres is really our only guy who I would actually consider a threat on the base paths. However, Timmeh, Dirteh, and most of our bullpen go for the K.

It may look nice that the Yankees and Dodgers and whoever made trades at the deadline, but we have yet to see the results of the trades. Sabean must have faith in the offense to and pitching to only trade for a few bullpen arms.

I can understand making moves to at least try to improve the team, but I think that we have improved a lot already since the beginning of the year. Rowand's not leading off, Bengie's not hitting cleanup, Bengie's not catching, Bangie's not grounding into double plays, Bengie's not making us look even slower, Buster's playing, Madison's been pitching 5th, Wellemeyer probably ain't coming back into our rotation, etc.

Now, I don't think that we'll win 20 games again in August, however, I don't think that some of the things that were holding us back in the beginning of the year, will happen with the team that Bochy's been putting out there.

The Rockies didn't really change anything, the Dodgers may have made themselves a little worse, Arizona..., and the Padres added Ryan Ludwick and Miguel Tejada. I don't think Miguel will do much good for them but Ludwick actually looks good. Still, they have 2 great hitters now instead of just 1. We have 3 great hitters and comparable fielding. Their pitching staff however, outside of Correia and Garland are young and will probably either burn out or will pitch fewer innings down the stretch. This will strain their bullpen and could lead to what happened to the Dodgers last year.

Want an upgrade on power for the offense? Bowker would make sense. Oh no, Bowker gone as an afterthought for a loogy. A few innings of pitching for several years of a power hitter under the giants control. That option is gone. A second option is to stand pat. Why, because the team already made significant moves that worked, and why screw-up the chemistry which at this point does not seem to need a new catalyst. A good August, and then a boost from the callups sans Bowker. Why do you even want to encourage Sabean to make a trade? You are playing with fire, and you will lose more often than you will win.

I find all this whining rather hard to believe. We just swept our arch-rivals that has treated us like their sorry bitch for recent memory. And most of the innertube is busy complaining. I even read one post on Mr. Malo's site that said that shipping out Bowker and picking up Lopez was the worst trade in Sabean's history. Really? When you trade a minor leaguer that was blocked by another guy (Schierholtz) that is a defensive replacement and are reduced to using Jonathan Sanchez as a reliever? What happened to "I would rather lose with youth"???? Would you have liked to see Adam Dunn in a Giants uniform on Sunday, but Matt Cain not, because that is that caliber of player it would have taken? Right now, we are getting contributions from Huff, Renteria, Torres, Rowand, Posey, F. Sanchez, Burrell, even Pablo has perked up. Renteria for chrissakes!!! The Giants go on some tough games this month, including playing in Atlanta, St. Louis and Philly. They are playing with a lot of confidence right now and winning ballgames. The doggers made desperation moves. The puds, I don't know, sounds to me like they are scared. Maybe Sabean should be praised for once not fucking with what ain't broken.

The short answer is "yes." We are going all the way, so, we must be constructed just fine.

Also, for the sake of being consistent on my part: PITCHING is going to get it done in today's game...NOT hitting. Improving the pitching staff without sacrificing anything important are fine moves. As I have said REPEATEDLY we are on the right track, rebuilding through the draft and prioritizing pitching. The fewer the moves by Sabean the better.

I have to agree with Bob's quick dismissal of considering the Yankee's situation. It's about money, not inspired leadership or dedication to excellence.

BTW if the Giants win the WS and anyone STILLS says we need a bat...those people need serious help. What is the thought process for that???

A big payroll is not the same thing as a desire to be the best. I don't buy the argument that the Yankees simply buy stuff and have no organizational plan, no commitment to winning, or no leadership. When you want to be the best at something, you should look at who is ahead of you. The Yankees have something to teach us, and we ignore that only out of foolishness. Dismissing them because you don't like them is silly. When the Giants can wave championship rings around then they can afford to learn nothing from their rivals. After all, if you want to win the World Series, then it's the Yankees who are now your chief rival.

I like this club. I'm not whining. I'm amazed, after 40+ years of being a fan, anyone can be so certain of victory, however. I am terribly uncertain for the simple reason that I am a Giants fan. The Giants have ALWAYS been one player short, one game short, one whatever short. The biggest highlights that ESPN could come up with during Sunday's game was Joe Morgan's HR in 1982. I NEVER WANT TO SEE THAT HIGHLIGHT AGAIN. That weekend sucked. Cheering about "keeping the Dodgers out of it" makes me want to gag.

I like this club. I do. But I'm sorry I'm not religiously convinced that we will automatically win. If they do win the whole thing I imagine that the unexpected wonder of it all will last the rest of my days. That ain't bad. I'm glad everyone seems so certain. I've nothing in my past as a Giants fan to give me certainty about anything except perhaps second-place. We do second-place really well.

I'm sure that the Yankees have a plan. They're not as cutesy or as well thought out as some other teams, but, they get what they want. They want big hitters more often than not. They have the money to afford the expensive ones. Everything else is a distant second. But I mean, Kerry Wood? Really? Toronto had some fine relievers and they go for the most fragile?

It's not whether you win or lose, it's how you play the game. The Giants tried what the Yankees do. Spend money on the big free agents. Barry Bonds as I recall was one of those. He played better than most people could ever dream of playing. Yet, the Giants did not win the World Series. The greatest hitter did not bring a championship to San Francisco. That tells me two things: 1)You need pitching! and 2) the Baseball Gods tease us. Sure, more free agents were added, a new manager was hired, and that didn't work either. The Yankee way only works if you're the Yankees. However, Sabean must have realized that this team had to change.

Here we are today. The farm has improved, the team has found its identity, the pitching has been great, the fielding has been even better, and I believe that the offense has earned the label average. This team keeps looking better every day. We are getting career years out of Andres Torres and Aubrey Huff as well as help from the Lord himself.

I like this team as well. I love that we're thinking in the long term and not in the short term. The Yankees are the definition of short term minded team. I'm glad that we don't follow them.

Run prevention is just as important as run creation. They chose the latter, and we chose the former. Of course with the bathos of currency and big hitting the Yankees may appear as successful. However, if you look at their team last year compared to the one of 1998, you'll see big differences. The pitching was better, the players were running more, and they did not hit as hard as these Yankees. Yet, they won more games and went the distance experiencing few, if any bumps along the road. It was their AL leading ERA and stolen bases (2nd in league) that did the job. Now, we may not be particularly fast, but, we have better pitching.

What I'm saying is, we can complain about what we don't have, but, we should not forget about what we do have. We have the best leadoff hitter, the best 1-5 rotation (fuck FIP), Huff, and the 2nd coming. There may be some things that we would like fixed, but, the price would be too much. Sometimes the best move is the one that is not made. The bullpen was the shakiest part of our run preventing arsenal. Sabean addressed it and we'll see how that turns out. Besides, sometimes, that magic fix just isn't obtainable or just isn't worth it.

I'm sure that the Yankees have a plan. They're not as cutesy or as well thought out as some other teams, but, they get what they want. They want big hitters more often than not. They have the money to afford the expensive ones. Everything else is a distant second. But I mean, Kerry Wood? Really? Toronto had some fine relievers and they go for the most fragile?

It's not whether you win or lose, it's how you play the game. The Giants tried what the Yankees do. Spend money on the big free agents. Barry Bonds as I recall was one of those. He played better than most people could ever dream of playing. Yet, the Giants did not win the World Series. The greatest hitter did not bring a championship to San Francisco. That tells me two things: 1)You need pitching! and 2) the Baseball Gods tease us. Sure, more free agents were added, a new manager was hired, and that didn't work either. The Yankee way only works if you're the Yankees. However, Sabean must have realized that this team had to change.

Here we are today. The farm has improved, the team has found its identity, the pitching has been great, the fielding has been even better, and I believe that the offense has earned the label average. This team keeps looking better every day. We are getting career years out of Andres Torres and Aubrey Huff as well as help from the Lord himself.

ADAM DUNN: 0 career post-season AB, 0 career post-season hits. Awful strikeout rate, even worse than usual in 2010. And this guy is so important why?

The non-pitchers who were truly available at the deadline this year were unimpressive. The only one who was mildly interesting was DeJesus - then, he got hurt. Even he was not much of an upgrade. We did the right thing by staying out of the nonsense & keeping our awesome starting pitching in-tact.

I am satisfied that we are as strong as possible (present & future) after the minor moves we made.

We can go ahead now & win it all in 2010, then get even better in the off-season.

The Yankees have been in the playoffs for 14 of the last 15 years. How is that "short-term" thinking?

No one player, be he Barry Bonds or Tim Lincecum, can bring any team a championship. You have to have the best TEAM. You have to have pitching, hitting, fielding, bench, management, etc.

I like the way the Yankees always try to get better. They always have back-up plans. They stockpile players "just in case." I like that. That improves your odds of winning.

There is a hell of a lot of uncertainty in baseball. Bad breaks, bad luck, bad calls, slumps, injuries, freak weather, unusually great performances, unusually bad performances, etc. etc. The more talent you have and the deeper your bench and the more weapons you possess, the better your odds of winning. That's all I'm saying. I'm wondering why that's such an unpopular view. I mean, I love our pitching, and I'm happy we are hitting well, and you can't not like the emergence of Buster Posey. But we were a .500 club for two months. We could be one again.

I want to see the Giants do everything it takes to make us the FAVORITES. I don't want pluck, grit, or help from the Lord. I want people to step back and say "whoa, the Giants are loaded and scare the crap out of me."

@MOC: Sure, I don't like the yankees, but that is not the only reason (although it is a GOOD ENOUGH one!) why I have NO INTEREST in following their role model. Our ancienct franchise needs no other identity than our own. Perhaps, we don't win as much. So be it. Wanting to a be the yankees is a pointless endeavor without tripling our revenue. If you need to look elsewhere, how about the cards, twins...those franchises are no less dedicated are they?

I think the resistance you are sensing from some of us is related to your pretty obvious attempts to rein in your rabid fandom. For example, saying "I like this club" is not terribly passionate. Even if it is true, that is not what a fan says. It is what a responsible blogger says though. And, boy howdy, there ain't no more responsible blogger out there. Believe me, I know of your love and dedication to the cause...THAT is never in doubt. Some of us (ME) are just not brave enough to write the truth always and revert to the cover of rapid fandom. So, don't go changing.But becoming the yankees is not our fate and I imagine their fans have their own "torture."I'm happy with our version.

@JCPI'm not happy with our version. I'm sick of being an also-ran. For all the Giants history, they have ZERO SF championships. Fuck that.

I'm not being a "responsible blogger." I'm being a hard, clear-eyed rationalist. I love the Giants, but I will no longer irrationally embrace everything they do and hope the gods reward me with a championship. Game Six destroyed that. Tell me--weren't you ABSOLUTELY CONVINCED we would be champions then? I was. And then we weren't. I will NEVER be absolutely convinced again--of anything--until it is in my hands.

@RonI never wanted Adam Dunn, although he can be a valuable player. He gets on base more and has more power than every Giant. I have no idea why his lack of post-season ABs has anything to do with anything. Last I checked Posey, Huff, and Torres have no post-season resumes. Nor do Lincecum, Cain, Wilson, Sandoval, etc. If we are going to win, those guys are going to lead the way. I'm assuming that Renteria and Rowand will be counted on in the post-season because of their experience? Pfffft. I hope those clowns sit through the whole thing if we get there. I recall that the 2002 Angels had no post-season experience, yet they beat teams LOADED with playoff resumes.

@Bob"Dirty Sanchez" is sexual slang. Look it up on Urban Dictionary. Unfortunately, anybody named Sanchez could get stuck with that moniker.

I am sooo glad Sabean did not bring in a big bat for one of our pitchers, and he appears to have even improved our pitching. I love the way they handled Posey and Bumgarner, pulling the trigger at the right time to work them in and unload Bengie after getting the most out of him.

What we have now is chemistry, and given that, the intangible power that causes someone like Nate to pinch hit with a single to win in the ninth inning of a playoff game, when a single is all it takes, not an Adam Dunn homer. I don't know what the Yankees gave to get Lance Berkman, and yes it would be nice to have another bat on the bench, but.... What we have is a manager who is working players into the lineup to keep them all contributing, and this in the long run will work more magic than Berkman or any one player addition could. Like Al Attles using his entire team in 74 to win the NBA title, the Giants could do it with great pitching and chemestry.

I love this team, and I am content to live and die with them as they are.

PS-great comments by anonymous, and all of you for that matter. Good discussion Mark!

There's nothing dirty about JSanchez. I love nicknames, rude or not, and am not above laughing at peepee poopoo jokes. Write what you want, by all means. This particular nickname does not work for me.Speaking of cool names, Boof Bonser is back in the Bigs, in the As bullpen, if anyone cares.(Born John Paul Bonser, he had his name legally changed to Boof in 2001. So it's no longer a nickname, but whatever.)

Adam Dunn's lack of post-season AB's is relevant for the following reasons:

- Every year (seems like since I was a Kid - it's amazing that this guy is supposedly only 30 years old), his name comes up at the trade deadline as some sort of savior for someone's hitting woes. In 2008, Arizona picked him up & went nowhere. His contribution was meager. There must be a good reason that no one has picked him up in 2009 or 2010.

- He has piled up some impressive power numbers (not much else, but, yes, power numbers) playing for light-weight teams in silly ballparks. There is nothing to suggest that he can duplicate his type of contribution in a pitchers' park in a pennant race.

I would never consider trading down a strength of the team for such an unknown commodity - you can substitute a whole bunch of names for 'Dunn' in this post, but he is the one who seems to come up the most.

"Short term" made more sense in my head. Like, they'll trade the farm to sign a free agent for years and years which will cost lots of money and just isn't very smart. Look at A-Rod's contract. And we complain about Zito's? A-Rod's defense was never good at 3B, he doesn't steal bases anymore, he hasn't hit as hard this year, he's getting on base less, etc. But where will the Yankees be in say 4 years? I'm sure Mo will be gone, as well as Posada, Pettitte, etc. Teixiera, Jeter, A-Rod, as well as others will be older, expensive, and with their prime years behind them.

That's what I meant. On the short term their millions of dollars going to improve the team could very well damn them in the not so distant future. Everything looks fine right now, but, how long will that last? The Giants have been spending money on maintaining the farm, extending the talented guys developed/drafted themselves, and stuff. It may not be as quick and easy as signing a free agent to a big contract, but, I like this better.

Also, I saw that nickname on Sanchez's BBR page. I'm sorry to offend. If you want, I'll stick to JSanchez.