I understand variety. Looking through webpages, breeder pages, facebook pages...all the pictures, I see some variety that would be normal in most breeds. Then I see something that doesn't look like it belongs.

Especially since this breed is pretty focused on one working avenue? And isn't the gene pool supposed to be fairly small, since this is a breed in development, and not a type? 120 years of true breeding should have made the dogs fairly consistent. I don't believe there should be THIS much "variety" in such a supposedly small gene pool. I think that there HAS to be SOME breeder out there still breeding herding mixes and that is why all these lines look so different.

Compared to pictures already posted, of course. And the other dogs on Avalon's site, Yeta Hae's site, and the other breeders Avalon said her dogs are from, Coolibah and Borahview. Some of these dogs look very, very similar. Some don't look anything at all alike. So yeah, there's going to be some confusion. Some of these dogs I wouldn't look at and say, "Yeah, that's a C/Koolie...just different breeding"... Like I would on an Aussie or BC.

I was hoping....but just in case...wanted to put it out there...what did you mean by condition if not weight...??

Ok back on to some working style...and working traits and physical needs....I want short dogs with nice solid builds (not thin boned) for working stock, they have to hold their own out on the field, I like that when i look at my coolies there is no doubt my stock will not break them no matter what goes wrong out there...their physical well being and soundness is crucial. In my lines you will find a smaller, slightly heavier bone density but yet light on their feet from the small size...this is great for moving around, small size means cattle kicks go overhead of the dog, speed and all around safety

However, the question is not "can there be variance" the question is... what makes a border collie a border collie, or a coolie a coolie? If it's merely working style and Backup works sheep like my old bosses border collies, is he a border collie? Or Stafinois put Grant on sheep once, would he now be recatagorized as a Coolie if he potentially worked sheep in the same style?

I feel there should be more signifying a breed beyond "works stock the same" and while looks are not everything they can help standardize. If this is a flawed logic then I would love an education.

I'm not saying I disagree with you at all. I actually do agree with you. Problem is you can't get anyone to agree on what makes a BC a BC

In BCs you can ROM in non-regged dogs. There haven't been many afaik. Turnbull Blue (sp?) was regged in and many of his offspring have beards.

No, not any more than I see a difference between Steve and Blaze and Finn and Wesley. Or Cara and Hawk and Kechara and Merlin.

I'm not really seeing it either, but then again maybe it's because I'm used to looking at aussies who have a huge variation in looks depending on what type of lines you're looking at. I wish Keechak would hop in here and post her picture of the BrittaxPulley kids because it does a great job of illustrating the variation in the breed even within a litter.

Cara is never going to look like a conformation bred aussie and IMO there are some pretty big differences in her build and coat when compared, structurally she looks most similar to Slash V dogs (when it comes to the more well known aussie kennels), who also produces working dogs.

I used Cara as an example because she's been mentioned a few times in the thread.

You all can confidently spell Avalon Coolies with a C, no K needed on my part. We have German Coolies...and we are pretty confident with what we would like to call our dogs so please dont feel you have to K/C anything for me, for some others I think there is confusion as to what they own...I mean even Toolalla refers to his as Aus.Coolies with a C...
it has to be pretty one sided if you are only seing dogs consistent with Toolalla lines, there are so many others out there...I do not post pictures that are not my property so I am unable to copypaste like others, but with more looking into, maybe check the registries web sites i posted at the beginning of the thread...HuntersleaKoolies, Royalla maybe...lots available...my lines are more "covert"...had to do some phone tag to find my breeders, no web site, no facebook back then...I didnt just go to the first google result i found...or the more advertized...borahview feels strongly about the Irish Spotting on coolies and maintaining that in their heritage, toolalla doesnt (toolalla does merle to merle so white is no good, borahview embraces the white as irish spoting is historic to the breed)

In other words, what you all have been looking at over the past year is a small fraction of what coolies are. There is so much more out there, better even maybe for some (and maybe not for others), but non the less there is more, there is differences, there is variety. My coolies are themselves a small fraction of what is out there...