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Author
Topic: I don't get the Tea Party (Read 16789 times)

It scares me because what people get away with happens in the US often emboldens conservatives all around the world. People here in the UK sometimes agitate that we should have a health care system more like the mess that you have - those people have obviously not lived under both systems like I have and have no idea what they're talking about.

I also have family and friends who live in the US. So yes, I'm frightened for them. I'm not one of those "I'm ok, Jack" people, I care about others too.

Granny60

I sure do, David. To stop this epidemic, I think it's incumbent on ALL of America to stop and/or treat HIV wherever it is.

I think all the overtaxed people in NY and Cali (and the other 48 states) need to fork over money to pay for AIDS prevention and treatment in Malawi, South Africa, etc. too. So if it's okay to do PEPFAR for the whole world, it's okay to do it for all the states too. (Although I am assuming that you agree with the American policy to pay for people in other countries to get meds while the gov't of those countries buy military planes and waste their capital on fraud, waste and theft. I don't think I've ever heard you expounding against American spending money to solve the HIV/AIDS epidemic in other parts of the world.)

Do you really think that pozzies in the States should die to prove some point?It sure won't be the state legislators who are dying without HIV meds.

and why continue along this line of reasoning? because it's a freaking epidemic.This is about the ultimate in "universal health care"

Epidemics don't care about boundaries, borders, red or blue states, who's paying taxes, or who's a D or R. If you let SC, Florida and Texas become hotbeds of raging HIV/AIDS epidemic, it won't be long until it becomes more of a problem back in NY and Cali (and elsewhere). Looking back at and learning from the history of HIV in America, it's because of the hotbeds of early HIV infection in big cities in Cali and NY that HIV spread as it did throughout the states. Not stopping HIV in every state, would just cause the reverse to happen 10 yrs in the future.

Of course, one alternative (I'm trying to think of other solutions, any solutions) would be for pozzies to move to the states that do provide better care for their citizens; but then the states you are railing against would just get off scott free of paying anything at all towards the problem. At least while people stay in FL and Texas, those states are having to deal with the accompanying issues of medical care, food stamps, housing, etc.

Whether it's Malawi that won't pay for it's citizens HIV health care or SC, FL or TX that won't pay for it's citizens HIV health care, it's only wise to step in and handle the situation to save lives, to save money in the long run, and (selfishly) to save everyone else in the world from the epidemic too.

Goes all the way back to Ronald Reagan who the republicans worship as their gun toteing Budda who had a chance to head this epidemic off from the start, but noooooo, We have to put more people in government jobs ( yes gov't employment went UP during Reagan/Bush) and increase military spending instead.

OK lets get back to my topic thread and brainstorm.Has anyone heard a tea partier with vision and a viable plan for "fiscal responsibility"?

I am no great fan of Reagan and didnt share his policy goals, but he was an experienced politician, a serious man and a sincere man. I never felt for a second he went into politics for money or power.

The current Republican gloating about a message to Obama from the American people, just seems so fucking empty. Its all reactionary and negative and undoing. Where is the fucking vision? I truly believe that big corporations and the billionaires club are having their way, using unthinking cows, who think they are part of a movement which is nonsensical.

Logged

“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

OK lets get back to my topic thread and brainstorm.Has anyone heard a tea partier with vision and a viable plan for "fiscal responsibility"?

I am no great fan of Reagan and didnt share his policy goals, but he was an experienced politician, a serious man and a sincere man. I never felt for a second he went into politics for money or power.

The current Republican gloating about a message to Obama from the American people, just seems so fucking empty. Its all reactionary and negative and undoing. Where is the fucking vision? I truly believe that big corporations and the billionaires club are having their way, using unthinking cows, who think they are part of a movement which is nonsensical.

Not ashamed to admit it: I loved Reagan. It's probably impossible to agree with anyone on everything, but, for my money, he was a great American and really made a difference in this world.

Wow... a Tea Party king (Jim DeMint) states on Meet The Press (www.nbcnews.com) that Repubs are not for cuts to SS and Medicare! LOL... what a bunch of hypocrites... crowing for privitization just four years ago.

LOL.. some of these guys will do anything to get back in power.

The funniest thing about the interview is when DeMint begins stating his answer to David Gregory about how SS and Medicare are off the table, he starts choking. He can't swallow his own lies as he tows the new Republican party line. He hates FDR entitlement programs.

Not ashamed to admit it: I loved Reagan. It's probably impossible to agree with anyone on everything, but, for my money, he was a great American and really made a difference in this world.

If you had been diagnosed with AIDS in 1984 would you have thought the same thing? I mean, you're the same age as I am so assuming you were out of the closet back then what exactly were your thoughts as gay men were croaking left and right and Reagan had zilch to say about it?

The current Republican gloating about a message to Obama from the American people, just seems so fucking empty. Its all reactionary and negative and undoing. Where is the fucking vision?

I don't know a lot about the Tea Party but my impression is that this isn't a political party but a reaction to Obama, the Democrats and the failed economy. Basically it is an umbrella of people who don't like the federal government, don't like taxes, don't want healthcare reform, don't want bailouts, do want stronger response to illegal immigrants and don't like having a black president. I think this movement is almost entirely reactionary and they don't have, or want, a vision.

My thoughts were pretty much the same as what everyone else's thoughts probably were. Mainly, WTF is going on and how are "they" going to cure this? I won't dismiss his entire presidency, though, based on just HIV/AIDS.

Why is Obamas presidency considered a failure on HIV/AIDS? Is it not the states' responsibility to fund the people in need of ADAP? Doesn't he get some cred for Health Care Reform, since thats inching towards all sick people getting basic health care as a right?

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“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Granny60

Not ashamed to admit it: I loved Reagan. It's probably impossible to agree with anyone on everything, but, for my money, he was a great American and really made a difference in this world.

Read the link below. Notice the number of Federal employees never went down, but actually rose during Reagan Bush. More republican Hypocrasy. During Reagan the Farmers all went Broke, Remember the Farm crisis? We were getting 60 to 70 bankruptcy auction sale bills in the mail per week. The Savings and Loans went broke, The railroads and trucking companies went broke, But due to republican propaganda, and money pouring in from right wing moral majority wack jobs such as Rush Limbaugh, Newt Gingrich , Pat Robertson, and Jerry Falwell, Reagan was the saving angel Budda to be worshiped.

Since you probably won't read the links, I have pasted this quote: according to his White House physician, Reagan thought of AIDS as though "it was measles and it would go away." Reagan's biographer Lou Cannon claims that the president's response to AIDS was "halting and ineffective."

« Last Edit: November 07, 2010, 06:18:23 PM by Granny60 »

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Granny60

If you had been diagnosed with AIDS in 1984 would you have thought the same thing? I mean, you're the same age as I am so assuming you were out of the closet back then what exactly were your thoughts as gay men were croaking left and right and Reagan had zilch to say about it?

Pffffffft! Barbara PLEASE! This is merely a bunch a conservs who are threatening to withdraw from Medicaid merely to give Washington the big middle finger. Nothing will ever happen with it. Hell this is coming from the state to threatens to secede about every 2 years, hell even Perry mentioned seceding last year in a news conference. You can't believe anything that comes out of the mouths of these whack jobs in Austin. What else you got?\

Please explain how the administration was able to come up with $26 million to clear the lists in a couple states.

I fear the discussion has moved on and this is becoming quite a hi-jack, but this is actually an interesting question to the budget geeks and one which they only partially explained. For an overview of Federal HIV/AIDS funding see this Kaiser Family Foundation doc: http://www.kff.org/hivaids/upload/7029-05.pdf

As this doc shows, federal ADAP monies come from the annual appropriations process (unlike Social Security and Medicare which are already authorized through a permanent "mandatory" appropriation and the government just pays the bills). What HHS said at the time was that the monies were "reallocated from dozens of programs from throughout HHS. " http://www.hhs.gov/news/press/2010pres/07/adap.html Presumably that means they went through every program that they could argue might be read to support ADAP's goals and looked to see whether more had been appropriated than was going to be used and swept up the unused money and set it aside as additional ADAP funding. This was likely practical because they were almost at the end of the fiscal year (Sep 30) and had a good idea where there would be surpluses. It doesn't seem like a good long term strategy though. Instead, Congress needs to apporpriate more money. The Administration asked for another $50 million back in February, but it needs to ask for more.

Of course not everyone with HIV is on ADAP. I never said otherwise. I assumed the reader would know this without stating the obvious. However I submit that even ONE person on a waiting list is too many.

Agreed, but please provide some supporting information that everyone on waiting lists is being covered through these means.

Absolutely agreed! Show me where I said this was not true, I applaud the initiative wholeheartedly, my concern is that they did not provide a mechanism to get people Meds immediately if need be. However I'll go further and propose that perhaps the inverse of that statement is true...Is there a potential that someone diagnosed under T&T with a cd4 of 25 and a VL in the millions is then placed on a waiting list , but under the pressure of it all just "gives up" and goes off the radar and throws in the towel?

-will

"The perfect is the enemy of the good." and here we aren't even dealing with the realistically perfect but the hypothetical. If we could get the waiting lists down to, say, less than one month, we would have ample reason to celebrate victory and move on.

I don't know a lot about the Tea Party but my impression is that this isn't a political party but a reaction to Obama, the Democrats and the failed economy. Basically it is an umbrella of people who don't like the federal government, don't like taxes, don't want healthcare reform, don't want bailouts, do want stronger response to illegal immigrants and don't like having a black president. I think this movement is almost entirely reactionary and they don't have, or want, a vision.

If I'm wrong feel free to correct me.

I agree in the main. But in some ways it seems like a temporary grouping that is almost being set up/encouraged as a way for conservative Republicans to express their disgust and nihilism without having to take responsibility for proposing solutions the way a permanent party does. (Or at least the way that in theory a permanent party does, although it is difficult to reconcile the Pledge with taking responsibility in practice)

Tea Party poster child Sen. Elect Rand Paul of KY (sry folks I did my part to see it didn't happen) appeared on This Week w/Christiane Amanpour. In a 15 minute interview where he was questioned continually about specific cuts he could not offer specific answers. "CUT SPENDING" "BALANCE THE BUDGET" "REDUCE THE DEBT" simple words that sound good and appeal to the base, but Congressman who continue saying them cannot provide a fiscal responsible answer as to how it is all done. But at least they got to elected. Here is the link to the story and video: http://abcnews.go.com/ThisWeek/rand-paul-long-budget-cuts-short-specifics/story?id=12079618

Logged

"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it." Nelson Mandela

Pffffffft! Barbara PLEASE! This is merely a bunch a conservs who are threatening to withdraw from Medicaid merely to give Washington the big middle finger. Nothing will ever happen with it. Hell this is coming from the state to threatens to secede about every 2 years, hell even Perry mentioned seceding last year in a news conference. You can't believe anything that comes out of the mouths of these whack jobs in Austin. What else you got?

Texas faces a budget crisis of truly daunting proportions, with lawmakers likely to cut sacrosanct programs such as education for the first time in memory and to lay off hundreds if not thousands of state workers and public university employees.

Texas' GOP leaders, their eyes on the Nov. 2 election, have played down the problem's size, even as the hole in the next two-year cycle has grown in recent weeks to as much as $24 billion to $25 billion. That's about 25 percent of current spending.

The gap is now proportionately larger than the deficit California recently closed with cuts and fee increases, its fourth dose of budget misery since September 2008.

Texas faces a budget crisis of truly daunting proportions, with lawmakers likely to cut sacrosanct programs such as education for the first time in memory and to lay off hundreds if not thousands of state workers and public university employees.

Texas' GOP leaders, their eyes on the Nov. 2 election, have played down the problem's size, even as the hole in the next two-year cycle has grown in recent weeks to as much as $24 billion to $25 billion. That's about 25 percent of current spending.

The gap is now proportionately larger than the deficit California recently closed with cuts and fee increases, its fourth dose of budget misery since September 2008.

today on FoxSunday 11/14, I heard my Senator, Jim Demint R-SC, the nominal leader of the Tea Party movement in the Senate, say the craziest thing: "If he (Obama) wants to work on our side of the ledger, then we can work together." So if the President wants to do things Demint's way, then Demint will be happy to compromise. Perhaps Mr. Demint needs to re-read the dictionary for the definition of "compromise".

A conservative Maryland physician elected to Congress on an anti-Obamacare platform surprised fellow freshmen at a Monday orientation session by demanding to know why his government-subsidized health care plan takes a month to kick in.

Republican Andy Harris ... reacted incredulously when informed that federal law mandated that his government-subsidized health care policy would take effect on Feb. 1 – 28 days after his Jan. 3rd swearing-in.

“He stood up and asked the two ladies who were answering questions why it had to take so long, what he would do without 28 days of health care" ... “Harris then asked if he could purchase insurance from the government to cover the gap," added the aide, who was struck by the similarity to Harris’s request and the public option he denounced as a gateway to socialized medicine.