Post by generatics on Jun 22, 2009 6:50:45 GMT

Hi Brethren, been gone a while. Hope you all are well. Took a long break to think, move, try to get life in order.

Backstory; I was entered, passed and raised on the sidelines a few years ago with 12 other Brothers and, with absolutely no disrespect to my mother Lodge, felt shortchanged regarding my initiation, for lack of a better term. I quickly took an officer position and became quite passionate about ritual work but the fact that I never truly went through it has always quite bothered me. I've since moved, hit some bad financial troubles and was simply unable to travel the long distance to Lodge at all the entire past year. That alone pains me greatly. So, over the past year I spent a lot of time trying to find a malecraft Lodge nearby that would allow me to "retake" my degrees but with no luck.

No Lodge in my new home state is willing to let me go through initiation again, and it seems to be in the name of not stepping on the toes of another jurisdiction etc. Which is really a shame because I was getting pretty excited about a large Traditional Observance Lodge nearby that has some significant family history for me. I've found that my only chance might be to request a demit from my mother Lodge (and Masonry completely), and then reapply for membership here. To add to the frustration; If I do demit then that alone could potentially be grounds for refusal in the new Lodge. Argh.

The only Lodge I've spoken with who is willing to allow me to take the degrees over is Co-Masonry. The good news is that Co-Masonry seems to focus much more on the aspects of Masonry which are most important to me, and there happens to be a Lodge very close by. I think it might be a great fit for me. But now I am at a moral impasse of deciding whether or not to demit from the malecraft completely, in the name of honoring my Obligation. Part of me feels like I'm being selfish and I'm telling myself to just stay put, affiliate with a local Lodge and continue helping Brothers receive the degrees as best you can. While another part of me wants so dearly to receive them myself and go forward with others who share the same passion for the work. Anyone else been in this kind of situation or have any words of wisdom that can help me think through this? It's going to eat away at me all summer until I can make a decision, and probably for long after.

Post by on Jun 22, 2009 8:03:24 GMT

This is a catch-22 none of us would like to deal with and my heart goes out to any who face such dilemmas. The only thing that I would personally suggest is be true to yourself and listen to your own heart.

I believe that as Freemasons we should hold ourselves to the highest possible standards, both morally and ethically. We are ambassadors of the Craft and should act as such 24/7, representing Her to the best of our abilities whenever possible.

Now, with this in mind ask yourself: Can you be the Mason you want to be if you allow yourself to remain where you feel uncomfortable?

Post by generatics on Jun 22, 2009 18:22:57 GMT

Thank you Leo, and thanks for your private message. That means a lot to me.

When I try to answer that question the response I continually come up with is; I cannot. Because I'm not a Mason. Not completely anyway. I have a dues card. I try my best to live my life as one. I care deeply for the Fraternity. But my feeling within is that all that is simply not enough. I've convinced myself that the ritual is essential, and without it, I have hit a roadblock regarding what I can accomplish with what I have (or have not) experienced.

Post by magusmasonica on Jun 22, 2009 18:49:21 GMT

Thank you Leo, and thanks for your private message. That means a lot to me.

When I try to answer that question the response I continually come up with is; I cannot. Because I'm not a Mason. Not completely anyway. I have a dues card. I try my best to live my life as one. I care deeply for the Fraternity. But my feeling within is that all that is simply not enough. I've convinced myself that the ritual is essential, and without it, I have hit a roadblock regarding what I can accomplish with what I have (or have not) experienced.

We share the same feelings my Brother. The ritual is essential. Without that Freemasonry has no essence, no key to the devine work.

Another option is that you may want to remain in your mainstream lodge but take a serious magickal path in another Order.

Thanks. That is something I've actually considered seriously. I was in contact with someone at AMORC this year and liked what they had to say. They seemed the most accessible during the bit of research I did. I also read a lot of Golden Dawn material and it is intriguing as well but never pursued it outside of books. I see a lot that I like in most of what I read on GD, then I occasionally come upon something which seems a bit negative to me and I get discouraged. RC just seems to feel more comfortable to me, for whatever reason. Also recently checked out the Napolean and Post Modern sites in your sig, interesting stuff. I've been looking for things which I can practice "solo" too, but haven't found much.

Thanks. That is something I've actually considered seriously. I was in contact with someone at AMORC this year and liked what they had to say. They seemed the most accessible during the bit of research I did. I also read a lot of Golden Dawn material and it is intriguing as well but never pursued it outside of books. I see a lot that I like in most of what I read on GD, then I occasionally come upon something which seems a bit negative to me and I get discouraged. RC just seems to feel more comfortable to me, for whatever reason. Also recently checked out the Napolean and Post Modern sites in your sig, interesting stuff. I've been looking for things which I can practice "solo" too, but haven't found much.

Examine all of your options Brother. Over turn every rock. If you are interested in solo working you might want to check out the Egyptian Rite as praticed by the Grand Orient Egyptian.

Post by on Jun 23, 2009 21:00:52 GMT

Greetings,

The Rosicrucian path via the 'Confraternity of the Rose Cross' www.crcsite.org is not a 'magical' path or Order, it is a 'mystical' path and Order. It is ideal for both types of student upon the path i.e., the 'group' type or for those who 'walk alone'.

There are many Orders out there so a new student upon the path should do a little research and choose wisely.

Thank you Leo, and thanks for your private message. That means a lot to me.

When I try to answer that question the response I continually come up with is; I cannot. Because I'm not a Mason. Not completely anyway. I have a dues card. I try my best to live my life as one. I care deeply for the Fraternity. But my feeling within is that all that is simply not enough. I've convinced myself that the ritual is essential, and without it, I have hit a roadblock regarding what I can accomplish with what I have (or have not) experienced.

We share the same feelings my Brother. The ritual is essential. Without that Freemasonry has no essence, no key to the devine work.

Another option is that you may want to remain in your mainstream lodge but take a serious magickal path in another Order.

Post by magusmasonica on Jun 23, 2009 21:08:15 GMT

The Rosicrucian path via the 'Confraternity of the Rose Cross' www.crcsite.org is not a 'magical' path or Order, it is a 'mystical' path and Order. It is ideal for both types of student upon the path i.e., the 'group' type or for those who 'walk alone'.

There are many Orders out there so a new student upon the path should do a little research and choose wisely.

Post by on Jun 24, 2009 10:15:37 GMT

The Rosicrucian path via the 'Confraternity of the Rose Cross' www.crcsite.org is not a 'magical' path or Order, it is a 'mystical' path and Order. It is ideal for both types of student upon the path i.e., the 'group' type or for those who 'walk alone'.

There are many Orders out there so a new student upon the path should do a little research and choose wisely.

Magickal is active and Mystical is passive but it would be a stretch to claim that the two are not related.

I don't know why some practitioners are so afraid of the term"Magick" but it is what it is.

The Rosicrucian art does encompass tons of Theurgy, a Magickal practice.

Love and Light,

I think of Martinism when you mention Theurgy, but have never regarded Theurgy as anything 'Magical' (Spl.?).

Post by spn357 on Jul 2, 2009 13:25:16 GMT

Well, i'm a little late coming in on this thread, but I have to say I sympathize with what this Brother is saying. I didn't feel shortchanged by my Craft degrees, but I definitely found my York and Scottish Rite experiences to be somewhat lacking. What I wouldn't give to experience the SR degrees as they were meant to be, as an individual candidate! Not to mention all the degrees that are skipped! The rapid fire way we do things here in the States does a great disservice to the initiatic experience that these degrees were meant to be.As long as we are on the subject of orders outside the Craft, I would also recommend Builders of the Adytum at www.bota.orgThis is an order that is kind of an offshoot of the Golden Dawn that studies the Western Mystery Tradition, especially through Tarot and Qabbalah. The lessons are top notch and well worth the effort. If you happen to be close by other members, group work is available, but much of the method is geared towards individual work. As a bonus, its founder Paul Foster Case was a Mason.

Post by generatics on Jul 2, 2009 21:20:00 GMT

Well, i'm a little late coming in on this thread, but I have to say I sympathize with what this Brother is saying. I didn't feel shortchanged by my Craft degrees, but I definitely found my York and Scottish Rite experiences to be somewhat lacking. What I wouldn't give to experience the SR degrees as they were meant to be, as an individual candidate! Not to mention all the degrees that are skipped! The rapid fire way we do things here in the States does a great disservice to the initiatic experience that these degrees were meant to be.As long as we are on the subject of orders outside the Craft, I would also recommend Builders of the Adytum at www.bota.orgThis is an order that is kind of an offshoot of the Golden Dawn that studies the Western Mystery Tradition, especially through Tarot and Qabbalah. The lessons are top notch and well worth the effort. If you happen to be close by other members, group work is available, but much of the method is geared towards individual work. As a bonus, its founder Paul Foster Case was a Mason.

thanks for writing. i know many others who've said the same about their Scottish Rite degrees. very popular in my jurisdiction were the famous 32nd-degree-in-a-day sessions. pay a few hundred bucks, grab a seat in the Grand Lodge auditorium with a few hundred other guys and watch a few stage shows. by the end of the day you're a 32nd degree Mason. i think they only did the 17th, 18th and 32nd degrees. i don't see the appeal or benefit in any of that.

outside of Co-Masonry, some clandestine (their word, not mine) bodies or maybe a Traditional Observance Lodge, i'm beginning to see serious initiation as something just not possible in US. it's a shame.

Post by magusmasonica on Jul 3, 2009 1:27:47 GMT

Well, i'm a little late coming in on this thread, but I have to say I sympathize with what this Brother is saying. I didn't feel shortchanged by my Craft degrees, but I definitely found my York and Scottish Rite experiences to be somewhat lacking. What I wouldn't give to experience the SR degrees as they were meant to be, as an individual candidate! Not to mention all the degrees that are skipped! The rapid fire way we do things here in the States does a great disservice to the initiatic experience that these degrees were meant to be.As long as we are on the subject of orders outside the Craft, I would also recommend Builders of the Adytum at www.bota.orgThis is an order that is kind of an offshoot of the Golden Dawn that studies the Western Mystery Tradition, especially through Tarot and Qabbalah. The lessons are top notch and well worth the effort. If you happen to be close by other members, group work is available, but much of the method is geared towards individual work. As a bonus, its founder Paul Foster Case was a Mason.

thanks for writing. i know many others who've said the same about their Scottish Rite degrees. very popular in my jurisdiction were the famous 32nd-degree-in-a-day sessions. pay a few hundred bucks, grab a seat in the Grand Lodge auditorium with a few hundred other guys and watch a few stage shows. by the end of the day you're a 32nd degree Mason. i think they only did the 17th, 18th and 32nd degrees. i don't see the appeal or benefit in any of that.

outside of Co-Masonry, some clandestine (their word, not mine) bodies or maybe a Traditional Observance Lodge, i'm beginning to see serious initiation as something just not possible in US. it's a shame.

never heard of the BOTA, looks very interesting. thanks!

Clandestine is as clandestine does ;D

At the end of the day Brother you need to do what is best for you and your journey. It make take a little bit more effort and a lot more chutzpah than you had in mind but at the end of the day it's worth it.

omni: In my Lodge the Secretary is a hugh bully along with control issues. if anyone even asks a question he files masonic charges against them. He controls members mostly because they are afraid of him.Apr 16, 2018 1:07:49 GMT

foriamhim: To omni: Grow some balls, that lodge is yours as well as every member in that lodge. If you are right, its not your problem. Nobody likes the ugliness of masonic charges. Light will always illuminate darkness, don't be afraid, be a better man. May 27, 2018 15:37:09 GMT*

foriamhim: Oh, I am a new member and just wanted to say hi...May 27, 2018 15:39:10 GMT