I think they will want JV and something else for the #1 pick. Gay aint gonna cut it on his own. Yeah, they get a nice player but his contract goes against what they're working on down there. So, something else would have to be added.

I like to use the Thunder/Celtics deal as a good example of a lotto trade.

I know and it doesn't matter, you don't want to be known as the guy who gives away the #1 because you're scared of it. It's a political thing. Like I said, based on what I read about '08, it's why Colangelo couldn't pull the trigger to move down.

Once more, you don't know what happens during workouts. The internet sites you're reading get it wrong many, many years. Don't take what they think as the word of God. Waiters catapulted up after workouts last year for example. What were they saying before that? Not much.

I think it would be a no brainer if we could move Gay for Varejao, Gee, and the #1 pick. This trade would have to include Varejao and Gee to get the salary to work, so you might as well think of it with them included. We get our starting PF in Varejao, who was playing like a beast before going down with injury. We also get the #1 pick, which we could use on someone like Otto Porter if we want a great replacement for Gay at SF, who is way cheaper and can grow with JV. Or we could use it on McLemore, making DD that much more expendable. Or whoever you fancy in the draft, those are just two guys I think would fit.
We also save $5.6M in salary next year, and could clear both contracts in 2014/15 if we choose to do so (Verejao and Gee aren't full guaranteed in 2014/15), saving $19.3M in salary. Even if we kept both we'd still be saving $6.6M in salary. I'm guessing we'd only keep Varejao, and be saving $10.6M in salary.

What exactly is the downside? I'm expecting the new GM to make big moves like this which result in the team getting younger, cheaper, but still be competitive. I think it'd be a steal and I would be amazed if Cleveland was willing to deal the #1 pick for Rudy Gay.

Rebuilding without tanking. Exhibit A.

Varejao = expiring, good vet presence, allows you to ditch Gray if you want
#1 pick = asset to use or trade
Alonzo Gee = also expiring and can fill a need on this team while he's here

If not this move, then similar move(s). This is how you improve financial flex and asset accrual while not actively trying to lose more games.

Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

Memphis tried to move Gay for a long time and were finally able to trade him to the Raptors for Ed Davis, Jose Calderon, and a lottery pick that was probably projected in the 7-9 range. And yet, someone thinks he's now worth Andy and the 1st overall pick.

What has Gay showed in Toronto to warrant the Raptors to seek a better package than Memphis received?

The fact Gay can't shoot the corner three with consistencies makes him a less than ideal fit in Cleveland. Gee was asked to develop that shot over the last two seasons and he failed. Good 4th wing but Gee is not a starter-quality player.

The consensus on RealCavsFans is Cleveland would like to trade down to select Otto, Oladipo or Len, or package it with other assets to obtain an all-star player, like Kevin Love or LaMarcus Aldridge. Rudy Gay just isn't good enough to be put in that category.

I believe the most likely scenario is Cleveland will keep the pick and select Nerlens Noel. I would not be surprised if they acquire the Dallas pick and package it with other picks to obtain another pick in the 5 - 7 range.

They won't get it. If they do it's cause Minny knows they can't keep K Love in free agency.

Doesn't matter if they don't get it. They won't move it for Gay, it flies counter to history. Tell me how many times in the past twenty years the pick was traded? I can think of only 2011 but I think that happened before the lottery established it as the #1.

There is a good reason you don't see that pick being dealed often, even in media advertised "weak drafts"...

I don't see any team in top five viewing it favorable to move the pick for Gay. Most those teams have been so busy gutting so that they could get the picks and cap space. Now they're going to turn around and trade that for $16M/yr Rudy Gay? Good player but doesn't fit the gutting plan.

If someone wants Gay now i think it will be an established team looking to shake it up. In a years' time I could see a team looking to gut willing to deal for him but you're not getting a sniff at a high lotto pick in either scenario.

Doesn't matter if they don't get it. They won't move it for Gay, it flies counter to history. Tell me how many times in the past twenty years the pick was traded? I can think of only 2011 but I think that happened before the lottery established it as the #1.

There is a good reason you don't see that pick being dealed often, even in media advertised "weak drafts"...

yep

It's a double whammy...

-the team with the pick doesn't want to risk the PR disaster. #1 picks are supposed to be be the best way (arguably) to add a franchise player. So the team with the pick has to only consider trading it for a guy who's arguably a franchise player.

-But this year's also a weak draft, so no team is willing to give up the asset(s) it takes to get a #1 pick in a trade. It would be hard for a team to justify trading away their best player for it.

Gay is not enough to get the pick, and this year the #1 pick has too much risk for Gay to be worth it (IMO). I'm sure Minny will feel the same way about Love. Does anyone think Noel or McLemore are an easy bet to be better than Gay or Love? I don't.

It would be interesting to see what the value is outside the top 5 though. Teams like Sacramento(7th), Detroit(8th) and Minnesota(9th) might not be asking for too much.

Doesn't matter if they don't get it. They won't move it for Gay, it flies counter to history. Tell me how many times in the past twenty years the pick was traded? I can think of only 2011 but I think that happened before the lottery established it as the #1.

Exactly twenty years ago...C-Webb for Penny . But that's only because Orlando also had the #1 pick (Shaq) the year before.

Memphis tried to move Gay for a long time and were finally able to trade him to the Raptors for Ed Davis, Jose Calderon, and a lottery pick that was probably projected in the 7-9 range. And yet, someone thinks he's now worth Andy and the 1st overall pick.

What has Gay showed in Toronto to warrant the Raptors to seek a better package than Memphis received?

Absolutely spot on.

If Gay for Andy + the #1 were on the table, though, I'd jump on that in an instant. Can you imagine our back line with JV and Varej„o together? If he came back healthy, that would make us instantly the 5 seed or higher, with a top 3 defense.

Memphis tried to move Gay for a long time and were finally able to trade him to the Raptors for Ed Davis, Jose Calderon, and a lottery pick that was probably projected in the 7-9 range. And yet, someone thinks he's now worth Andy and the 1st overall pick.

What has Gay showed in Toronto to warrant the Raptors to seek a better package than Memphis received?

Just to be clear on my stance, I agree with you 100%. My post was more about this being the kind of deal they should be pursuing if they decide to move Gay. If Cleveland were to offer the #1 for Rudy Gay, in any scenario (+Andy or whatever), they should fire their GM immediately.

Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

Memphis tried to move Gay for a long time and were finally able to trade him to the Raptors for Ed Davis, Jose Calderon, and a lottery pick that was probably projected in the 7-9 range. And yet, someone thinks he's now worth Andy and the 1st overall pick.

What has Gay showed in Toronto to warrant the Raptors to seek a better package than Memphis received?

The fact Gay can't shoot the corner three with consistencies makes him a less than ideal fit in Cleveland. Gee was asked to develop that shot over the last two seasons and he failed. Good 4th wing but Gee is not a starter-quality player.

The consensus on RealCavsFans is Cleveland would like to trade down to select Otto, Oladipo or Len, or package it with other assets to obtain an all-star player, like Kevin Love or LaMarcus Aldridge. Rudy Gay just isn't good enough to be put in that category.

I believe the most likely scenario is Cleveland will keep the pick and select Nerlens Noel. I would not be surprised if they acquire the Dallas pick and package it with other picks to obtain another pick in the 5 - 7 range.

Lets not be revisionist historians. Memphis was making a salary dump while attempting to stay competitive. They would not take back equal dollars and they had to get pieces that fit.

What might allow the Raptors to get a better package? If they took on another teams expiring contract that is currently not movable (Ben Gordon comes immediately to mind).

The Cleveland Cavaliers are shopping the first overall pick in the 2013 NBA Draft. The Cavaliers are fielding calls and gauging interest in the top pick, but most league sources believe Cleveland will have a difficult time finding a trade partner that is willing to part with anything significant to acquire the top pick since this class is widely regarded as being weak, especially at the top of the draft.

Cleveland wants to make the playoffs next season so their interest in a player like Love, who would take them to the next level, makes sense. But again, itís hard to imagine Minnesota giving up Love for the top pick, orany team giving up any All-Star player for the No. 1 pick. If this were the 2014 NBA Draft, there would be teams lining up to trade for the No. 1 pick since Andrew Wiggins, Jabari Parker and even Julius Randle are viewed as franchise-changing stars. Most executives feel this draft doesnít have any those kind of players.

Another scenario that Cleveland would likely be open to is finding a trade partner that would allow them to move down a few spots to select Otto Porter out of Georgetown, who they have grown to really like. Porter would be a reach with the top overall pick and he might struggle if he has to the deal with the lofty expectations associated with being the No. 1 pick. However, Porter at a slightly lower pick makes the most sense for the Cavaliers.

Clevelandís biggest need is at small forward since they have used a first-round pick on a point guard (Kyrie Irving), shooting guard (Dion Waiters), power forward (Tristan Thompson) and center (Tyler Zeller) in the last two years. Porter could be their small forward of the future, who develops alongside Irving, Waiters, Thompson and Zeller. However, Porter at No. 1 is too high since heís not considered a star player at the next level. Porter is widely regarded as more of second option/impact role player in the NBA. He fills Clevelandís need, but heís not the best available player on the board at No. 1.

If we do trade for the 1st pick, they should select Ben McLemore. Trade away Derozan for a 1st rnd pick next draft. If you haven't seen his game, search him up on Youtube. I think hes the guy most likely to become a superstar in this draft