It would be hard to say that the OP's question has made the assumption that both are bad without saying that the buddha only 'assumed' both to be bad, 'not good' at best, when he made precepts against them both too?

Suppose there is someone reading this thread who has had no exposure Buddhism. And suppose he just got home after dinner at the pub. What do suppose he would make of Buddhism after reading the title of this thread?

catmoon wrote:Suppose there is someone reading this thread who has had no exposure Buddhism. And suppose he just got home after dinner at the pub. What do suppose he would make of Buddhism after reading the title of this thread?

I suppose he or she may not like some of the comments or precepts. But the Dharma is not for the faint of heart. The Buddha describes in one discourse some people who are not ready for the Dharma and that includes those not very disciplined and some other factors, I don't have the reference handy right now.

But the precepts are guidelines, not commandments. A person can drink and eat meat and still be a Buddhist. Attaining enlightenment or another noble state is another matter, but those are difficult to attain even for those who never eat meat or drink alcohol.

It is a gradual path. The moment of enlightenment might be instantly, but the process is gradual.

"Just say the nembutsu and be liberated" Shinran Shonin"However hard it may be to bid farewell to this world, when the conditions that bind us to this saha [samsara] realm run out, we are powerless to do anything as the final hour arrives and we are swept away to that Land." -A Record in Lament of Divergences

"Just say the nembutsu and be liberated" Shinran Shonin"However hard it may be to bid farewell to this world, when the conditions that bind us to this saha [samsara] realm run out, we are powerless to do anything as the final hour arrives and we are swept away to that Land." -A Record in Lament of Divergences

Are you an enlightened master living in Tibet? Do you even live in Tibet?

My own Tibetan teacher eats meat, but praises vegetarianism and has stated in his future life he hopes he can be vegetarian. As it stands now he would suffer health problems if he quit eating meat abruptly.

That being said the mechanized cruelty of the modern meat industry is inexcusable. The present system is a bit different from a single yak being slaughtered by nomads. In our present system countless animals are raised in horrid conditions, tortured and put to death. The system only exists because of a consumer demand for the product. If you purchase the product you support the system and are a cause for it existing.

The compassionate thing is to refrain from meat consumption for the well-being of the butcher (they only kill animals due to consumer demand) and for the animals who are being slaughtered.

If you are healthy and live in a place where a vegetarian diet is easily done, you should refrain from consuming meat.

Intoxication destroys virtue and creates bad karma (unless one has taken a vow not to take any alcohol at all). Alcohol can also be used medicinally.

Harsh speech, lying, etc destroys virtue and creates bad karma.

Stealing destroys virtue and creates bad karma.

Eating meat and drinking alcohol do not in and of themselves destroy virtue or create bad karma (I know what the Lanka and many Chinese and other Buddhists say).

Personally I try to minimize meat eating and alcohol drinking (I have to force myself to drink 1/2 glass of wine for health a day when not following Sojong vows). I also try not to be a pain to family so I will eat meat if they offer it on holidays and of course during some tantric feasts or if my lama asks to share a dish at a restaurant.

Vegetarian baiting can be really good fun, but its just too easy Karmically not a good idea either, i wouldnt think.Also i dont need to clutter up my head with stuff like this, my practice suffers for it.

If one is practicing tantra at this level (Highest Yoga Tantra or Mahayoga tantra and above) then one also has the commitment to see all things in pure view so all activities are tantric activities so the office party is in fact (or should in fact be) experienced as a tantric feast.

Alcohol consumption is against the precepts, however, in itself it is karmically neutral.Meat consumption is against only one version of minor bodhisattva precepts, its karmic negativity is minimum dubious.

"There is no such thing as the real mind. Ridding yourself of delusion: that's the real mind."(Sheng-yen: Getting the Buddha Mind, p 73)

You dont have to have a health problem in order to avoid vegetarianism. The so called myth that vegetarianism is the healthy way to live has been bebunked.

GasshoNamo Amida Butsu

"Just say the nembutsu and be liberated" Shinran Shonin"However hard it may be to bid farewell to this world, when the conditions that bind us to this saha [samsara] realm run out, we are powerless to do anything as the final hour arrives and we are swept away to that Land." -A Record in Lament of Divergences