So I am launching this thread and so looking forward to our work together. I hope as many people as are moved will contribute, at any and all levels of knowledge relative to evolutionary astrology as taught by JWG. We are fortunate that Rad will be guiding, directing, and providing feedback on our work at every step of the way.

The purpose of this thread would be to understand sexuality through the EA paradigm. Specifically, to understand the sexual nature of a given Soul and particularly its sexual desires relative to the overall karmic past and evolutionary intentions of the Soul. Beyond descriptions of sexual patterns, the question “why?” would be the focus: why this gender, this orientation, this sexual experience, and so on.

Some of the material that we can cover in the thread:

SEX AND SEXUALITY-Mars/1st House/Aries/Nodes of Mars: Instinctual desire nature of the Soul-Venus/2nd House/Taurus/Nodes of Venus: Sexual needs, values, orientations -Pluto/8th House/Scorpio/Nodes of Pluto: Sexual encounters, experiences, and partners-The Pluto/Mars, Pluto/Venus, and Mars/Venus Cycles: Development of sexual themes across lifetimes-The use of asteroids to flesh out particular sexual archetypes and patterns, in particular I would like to suggest: the four goddess asteroids (Ceres, Pallas, Vesta, Juno); Persephone; Eros; Psyche; Cupido; Dionysus; Pan; Ganymede; Adonis; Lust; [update: Sappho, Amor added to this list; Circe subtracted, my error about the myth]. I have found many of these very useful, provided they are interpreted in the context of a correct understanding of the karmic and primary sexual axes of the chart.

GENDER AND GENDER IDENTITY-Moon/4th House/Cancer/Nodes of Moon and Saturn/10th House/Capricorn/Nodes of Saturn: Relation to anima/animas, masculine/feminine dimensions of duality -Saturn/Moon Cycle: Development of gender identity in the context of the structuring of consciousness in a given evolutionary cycle of lifetimes

...and more according to the interests of the group.

I am posting now two more messages, one with existing written resources for working with sexuality through the EA paradigm, and another proposing the first chart we can look at together.

So one of the first things I wanted to post is a list of EA resources on the topic of sexuality, both for all of us to review and reference, and also for future students of the EA paradigm who come to the site. One thing about JWG’s writing is that sexuality, as a part of life, is always interwoven and so there is learning to be had in all of his materials. But there are parts of his body of work that specifically hone in on this.

BOOKS

Pluto Volume 2: The Soul’s Evolution through Relationships, by JWG- Entire book is useful for this topic, but especially:- “Social, Cultural, Parental, and Religious Imprinting”- “The Nature and Function of Venus”- “The Nature and Function of Mars”- “The Phasal Relationship of Mars and Venus”

Pluto School Segment 2, by JWG- Entire program is useful for this topic.

Capricorn: The Nature of Dark Eros, by JWG

CD’s

Evolutionary Astrology and Sexuality, by JWG

Message Board Posts – I’ve included who initiated or hosted the threads because it is inspiring to me to see how many of us have contributed to the growth and expansion of the message board over time, many of you before my time here. And obviously Rad is the common voice of guidance and direction through all of these materials.

Some In-Depth Sexual Analyses (To prevent any confusion I have included only those analyses validated in their entirety by Rad, but there are several other great analyses with only minor corrections in the relevant threads)

- Of a white male, born into upper middle economic conditions, no specific religious conditioning, born in Canada, who is in the last stages of the 1st Stage Individuated evolutionary condition, who has Pluto in Virgo conjunct Uransu in the 2nd House, S.Node is in Scorpio in the 5th House, N.Node in Taurus in the 11th, and it's ruler Venus in Aqaurius in the 7th, and it's squaring the Nodes (Gonzalo): http://schoolofevolutionaryastrology.com/forum/index.php/topic,21.msg2039.html#msg2039

So in terms of beginning to explore the topic, I would like to suggest Michael Jackson would be a good candidate, given that he is well known, his entire life is well-documented, there is considerable material about his sexual life available, and there is now a good birthtime verified by ISAR and others. I vetted the idea with Rad and he is up for this idea. Would those participating be interested in looking at his chart together as our first foray here?

To give a bit of background, Rad has stated that his evolutionary condition is 3rd stage individuated. I am attaching below a copy of his chart, based on this data: August 29, 1958; 7:33pm; Gary, Indiana, USA. Also, here are a few links if you are interested in getting enough of a sense of him to decide if you would like to look at his chart. I’ll post a lot more biographical data, particularly relative to his sexual life, if the group agrees to start with his chart.

I haven't been able to visit the mb lately and not sure about the future. Very interested in this topic and will at least try to follow along. Very glad this will be explored on the mb! Thank you for facilitating it...

Wow, thank you for holding this space Jason. This is a very meaningful and important thread. Until I feel the inner space to be more involved, for now I will just be a listener and follow along.God bless,Ari Moshe

Wow I am so impressed with all of the wonderful resources you offered here for this thread and with how you set it up for the participants. Thank you so much for bringing your experience of this topic to the board. As I mentioned before the break, count me in, and yes to the chart of MJ, it sounds just right considering how much information is out there to help with the analysis.

Thank you! Looks like this will be a great thread that you've set up, very juicy. Although I'd love to be able to participate I'm largely tied up with medical procedures these days, and wont be available for that kind of involvement. But I'm looking forward to going over it all later in Feb sometime when I'm back on deck more.

Your presentation of the thread was to me already a learning (and teaching) experience. Thanks so much for the resources you provided.I would agree with Michael Jackson’s chart only because of trust in your and Rad’s deep knowledge about the subject. But reading the articles you selected with the psychological considerations and discriminations, aroused my own interest, thank you. It is very important having the material’s quality selection done by you.I am ready to begin this learning journey.

Some questions: in what Cupido differs from Eros in the astrological interpretation? Is there some asteroids interpretation material besides Demetra George’s Asteroid Goddesses?Thanks for sharing your knowledge and the thoughtfulness you had in it.God BlessMirta

Hi Jason,I will be happy to participate in this thread.Michael Jackson's chart would be good to use.I am starting to read from the list of resources that you have provided.Thanks for organizing this so well - and I look forwardto another wonderful learning experience with you, Rad and members.Peace,Linda

I am also extremely excited to take part here as a newbie, and love that you are planning to work with so many of the asteroids. Like Mirta, I'm not as familiar with the function of Cupidos, and so look forward to learning more. Also, if adding one other asteroid to consideration is not too much of an overload, I strongly sensed that Sappho might be useful here, so I plugged it in and it does indeed form a tight square to his Pluto/Sun/Juno stellium and a quintile with Chiron.

Thanks again for leading this, and for your organization, and for this opportunity!

Thanks for your message. About the asteroids, I don’t have good places to point for reading. Demetra in Asteroid Goddesses has some extremely brief discussions of, for instance, Eros, Psyche, Sappho. And one can find a bit of very limited and highly speculative material on the internet here and there, but I have found it pretty thin and it does not seem to be based on observation and correlation.

Actually, my hope was that our thread could begin to flesh out some of the dynamics of these asteroids, by studying the stories and myths connected to them, and how those stories relate or do not relate to the Souls in whose charts they occur. In this way, we might be at the early stages of developing an EA perspective on some of them. Actually you were one of the people I thought of in particular about this because of your creative work with Persephone and a couple of the other asteroids in earlier threads, and your Jungian sensitivity to story and myth. I remember that by considering aspects of the stories affiliated to these asteroids, you were able to reveal more of the Soul’s dynamics in a very tangible/felt way.

With regard to the asteroids on the list I made, I have done a bit of research relative to some – Eros, Ganymede, Adonis, Persephone, and Lust – both through a database of a couple hundred consultation charts, as well as in-depth longer-term psychotherapeutic work (where the stories often get really elaborated and played out) with about 50. I haven’t ever consolidated or written any of that up, but I will try to do so in at least a sketched-out form at some point in the course of our thread, both as some potential guidance as well as in the interest of feedback from Rad and the group.

The question you ask about Cupido/Eros is a good one, and I don’t know as I haven’t explored Cupido in any depth yet myself, for some reason was never drawn to (same is true about Pan, Dionysus, and Circe, among those I had placed on the list). Cupido as you know is the Roman name and Eros the Greek name, but the stories are basically the same. It is a dilemma involving many asteroids, for example not only are there Vesta, Juno, and Ceres, but there are also Hestia, Hera, and Demeter, which are the Greek names of the same goddesses. I’m reminded of something Rad said in the past that the issue with asteroids is which ones do you choose to use and when. The only basis I can think of would be observation/correlation over time.

I would like to suggest for the purposes of our thread that in developing our analyses we primarily stick to the firmer ground of the planets and their nodes, as well as the asteroids commonly used here on the MB which have some substantial observation/correlation background – Ceres, Juno, Pallas, Vesta, Amazone, Lucifer, Lilith. This will allow us to focus on the most fundamental evolutionary and sexual signatures in any chart. And then, with a fully elaborated and detailed analysis on that basis, those of us who are interested can also include in our posts the potential roles these other asteroids may be playing and what additional information they might provide to the story; in other words, not relying on them or putting them at the center of the story, but rather exploring the suggestive and intriguing elements they might reveal in the Soul’s story. Rad, could I also ask your opinion on this approach? My concern is that as others have said we don’t want to overload or dilute the work, yet at the same time to be able to explore these at the periphery as they can be very helpful.

Glad you are joining us! Yes, Sappho could be a very interesting exploration and you’re right it does land right on some key components of Jackson’s chart. Thanks for bringing it in, and I will add it to the list I had suggested at the beginning. Actually I am going to replace Circe with Sappho, because I had added Circe mistakenly based on a different myth. I am also adding the asteroid Amor.

As I had also mentioned above in responding to Mirta, I would like to suggest that we initially limit our exploration of asteroids with less existing validation through the EA paradigm, so as to focus first and deeply on the primary evolutionary and most fundamental sexual signatures in the chart; but with the background of a solid and well-elaborated/detailed analysis of those fundamentals, I think exploring such asteroids will be very useful and a way we can all contribute to the growth and extension of the EA paradigm.

So, it is a real “thriller”(!) for me that we will work on this and work on Michael Jackson’s chart together. I also heard from Gray and Cat that they are interested through email too, so I think that is everyone who had indicated initial interest on the prior thread, plus very glad to have you here too Ellen and Dylan.

I’d like to suggest that we each start by developing and posting our analysis of the bottom-line evolutionary dynamics of this Soul: looking at Pluto and its polarity point, the lunar nodes and their rulers – the house locations, sign locations, and aspect configurations of all of these. This will be the context and reference point for all our subsequent analysis of the Soul’s sexual and gender expression, in terms of its overall karmic past and evolutionary intentions in this lifetime.

I will also post some more background biography links later this weekend, and if others find biographical material that you are moved to share, please do.

Look forward to sharing and reading everyone’s perspectives on the EA fundamentals of this chart!

Yes I will be participating in this thread- I have been slammed busy with work and other events recently but have started to read through some of the material you posted, Jason. This next time period is going to be a busy time for me with my work but I will at least be able to follow along and make the time to post something, I may not have the time to go for a comprehensive take on things. Depending upon what happens, I may choose to focus on smaller aspects or something I will be able to handle with the time I have on my hands. The speculative nature of Michael Jackson's sexuality is a little daunting for me but I am very intrigued by what we will come up with by focusing on what the astrology has to say. I look forward to participating with all of you and learning from each and every one of you.