DrayTel service relaunched

DrayTel (not draytek, but loosely linked) have relaunched their voip
service. It seemed naff before, and I signed up for sipgate, but now it
seems very competitive. It has the same pricing structure as sipgate, but if
you buy £20 credit you get put on the 'silver' tariff and then its cheaper
than sipgate (1p/min landlines in uk, australia, usa etc, 10/8/5p uk
mobiles). The features seem quite good (pasted):

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Alex wrote:
> DrayTel (not draytek, but loosely linked) have relaunched their voip
> service. It seemed naff before, and I signed up for sipgate, but now it
> seems very competitive. It has the same pricing structure as sipgate, but if
> you buy £20 credit you get put on the 'silver' tariff and then its cheaper
> than sipgate (1p/min landlines in uk, australia, usa etc, 10/8/5p uk
> mobiles). [snip]

BAD news for those considering Draytel: Draytel quote prices ex-VAT
(wheras Sipgate have the decency to show inc-VAT prices)

GOOD news for those considering Draytel: Draytel charge per second
rounded to next 1p+VAT, wheras Sipgate charge in whole-minutes.

For landline calls, there's nothing in it - rounding to the next 1.19p
rather than 1.175p.

But for mobiles, Sipgate round up to the next 14.9p as opposed to
rounding up to the next 1.175p from Draytel. That really DOES dent
Sipgate's attractiveness. And now Draytel's per-minute rate to UK
mobiles is usefully cheaper if you spend £20 and qualify for "Silver"
tariff.

On their new deal, Draytel look like giving Sipgate a run for their
money - as long as call quality and customer service are no worse.

"John Geddes" <> wrote in
message news:
> Alex wrote:
> > DrayTel (not draytek, but loosely linked) have
> > relaunched their voip service. It seemed naff before,
> > and I signed up for sipgate, but now it seems very
> > competitive. It has the same pricing structure as
> > sipgate, but if you buy £20 credit you get put on the
> > 'silver' tariff and then its cheaper than sipgate
> > (1p/min landlines in uk, australia, usa etc, 10/8/5p uk
> > mobiles). [snip]
>
> BAD news for those considering Draytel: Draytel quote
> prices ex-VAT (wheras Sipgate have the decency to show
> inc-VAT prices)
> GOOD news for those considering Draytel: Draytel charge
> per second rounded to next 1p+VAT, wheras Sipgate charge
> in whole-minutes.
> For landline calls, there's nothing in it - rounding to
> the next 1.19p rather than 1.175p.

Indeed.
> But for mobiles, Sipgate round up to the next 14.9p as
> opposed to rounding up to the next 1.175p from Draytel.
> That really DOES dent Sipgate's attractiveness. And now
> Draytel's per-minute rate to UK mobiles is usefully
> cheaper if you spend £20 and qualify for "Silver" tariff.

I always use my mobile to call other mobiles, it's a lot cheaper.
> On their new deal, Draytel look like giving Sipgate a run
> for their money - as long as call quality and customer
> service are no worse.
> Anyone able to make an informed comparison?
>
> John Geddes

I just signed up and the confirmation box that popped up said voiptalk. Oh
well we'll see what it's like to play with.

John Geddes wrote:
> Alex wrote:
>
>> DrayTel (not draytek, but loosely linked) have relaunched their voip
>> service. It seemed naff before, and I signed up for sipgate, but now
>> it seems very competitive. It has the same pricing structure as
>> sipgate, but if you buy £20 credit you get put on the 'silver' tariff
>> and then its cheaper than sipgate (1p/min landlines in uk, australia,
>> usa etc, 10/8/5p uk mobiles). [snip]
>
>
> BAD news for those considering Draytel: Draytel quote prices ex-VAT
> (wheras Sipgate have the decency to show inc-VAT prices)

More bad news compared to Sipgate is that you need £10 of call credit to
get a geographic number. An 0870 number costs £3 and an 0845 costs £10
(all prices ex VAT). So if you need a "free" DDI, Sipgate is still the
better option.

[snip]
> More bad news compared to Sipgate is that you need £10 of
> call credit to get a geographic number. An 0870 number
> costs £3 and an 0845 costs £10 (all prices ex VAT). So if
> you need a "free" DDI, Sipgate is still the better option.

Indeed. I have one number that doesn't and never will have any credit on
it. It's a backdoor into my PABX (gives internal dial tone). It's never
used for outgoing calls and only gets used for incoming calls when I need
to test something.

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 21:13:12 -0000, "Ivor Jones"
<> wrote:
>
>
>"Chris" <> wrote in message
>news:
>
>[snip]
>
>> More bad news compared to Sipgate is that you need £10 of
>> call credit to get a geographic number. An 0870 number
>> costs £3 and an 0845 costs £10 (all prices ex VAT). So if
>> you need a "free" DDI, Sipgate is still the better option.
>
>Indeed. I have one number that doesn't and never will have any credit on
>it. It's a backdoor into my PABX (gives internal dial tone). It's never
>used for outgoing calls and only gets used for incoming calls when I need
>to test something.

Sipgate's geographic numbers don't expire if you don't use them for a
while (as might be the case with your PABX number), whereas DrayTel
will disconnect your number if you don't use it at least once every 60
days.

"Chris Blunt" <> wrote in message
news
> On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 21:13:12 -0000, "Ivor Jones"
> <> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > "Chris" <> wrote in message
> > news:
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > > More bad news compared to Sipgate is that you need
> > > £10 of call credit to get a geographic number. An
> > > 0870 number costs £3 and an 0845 costs £10 (all
> > > prices ex VAT). So if you need a "free" DDI, Sipgate
> > > is still the better option.
> >
> > Indeed. I have one number that doesn't and never will
> > have any credit on it. It's a backdoor into my PABX
> > (gives internal dial tone). It's never used for
> > outgoing calls and only gets used for incoming calls
> > when I need to test something.
>
> Sipgate's geographic numbers don't expire if you don't
> use them for a while (as might be the case with your PABX
> number), whereas DrayTel will disconnect your number if
> you don't use it at least once every 60 days.

Actually, Sipgate do reserve the right to pull a number through disuse,
but AFAIK it's never happened.

>>> More bad news compared to Sipgate is that you need £10 of
>>> call credit to get a geographic number. An 0870 number
>>> costs £3 and an 0845 costs £10 (all prices ex VAT). So if
>>> you need a "free" DDI, Sipgate is still the better option.
>>
>>Indeed. I have one number that doesn't and never will have any credit on
>>it. It's a backdoor into my PABX (gives internal dial tone). It's never
>>used for outgoing calls and only gets used for incoming calls when I need
>>to test something.
>
> Sipgate's geographic numbers don't expire if you don't use them for a
> while (as might be the case with your PABX number), whereas DrayTel
> will disconnect your number if you don't use it at least once every 60
> days.

Yes, thats a bit on the pants side. You'd think they'd specify it would
only occur if there was demand in an area and no more numbers available.
However, when the voipbuster/sipdiscount gravy train derails, it might be
worth considering (for me)..

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:40:55 -0000, "Ivor Jones"
<> wrote:
>
>
>"Chris Blunt" <> wrote in message
>news
>> On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 21:13:12 -0000, "Ivor Jones"
>> <> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > "Chris" <> wrote in message
>> > news:
>> >
>> > [snip]
>> >
>> > > More bad news compared to Sipgate is that you need
>> > > £10 of call credit to get a geographic number. An
>> > > 0870 number costs £3 and an 0845 costs £10 (all
>> > > prices ex VAT). So if you need a "free" DDI, Sipgate
>> > > is still the better option.
>> >
>> > Indeed. I have one number that doesn't and never will
>> > have any credit on it. It's a backdoor into my PABX
>> > (gives internal dial tone). It's never used for
>> > outgoing calls and only gets used for incoming calls
>> > when I need to test something.
>>
>> Sipgate's geographic numbers don't expire if you don't
>> use them for a while (as might be the case with your PABX
>> number), whereas DrayTel will disconnect your number if
>> you don't use it at least once every 60 days.
>
>Actually, Sipgate do reserve the right to pull a number through disuse,
>but AFAIK it's never happened.

I didn't know that. Do they specify any particular frequency that you
are supposed to receive calls within to avoid being disconnected?

[snip]
> > Actually, Sipgate do reserve the right to pull a number
> > through disuse, but AFAIK it's never happened.
>
> I didn't know that. Do they specify any particular
> frequency that you are supposed to receive calls within
> to avoid being disconnected?

I'm not 100% sure, I think it's around 6 months, similar to the mobile
networks. You definitely don't have to make any calls though, as long as
the account has been used at all in that time it will remain active. As I
said, I don't think they ever have pulled any numbers through disuse, but
it's natural that they should be able to, given that they give free
geographic numbers.

"Ivor Jones" <> wrote in message
news:...
>
>
> "Chris Blunt" <> wrote in message
> news:
>> On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:40:55 -0000, "Ivor Jones"
>> <> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>> > Actually, Sipgate do reserve the right to pull a number
>> > through disuse, but AFAIK it's never happened.
>>
>> I didn't know that. Do they specify any particular
>> frequency that you are supposed to receive calls within
>> to avoid being disconnected?
>
> I'm not 100% sure, I think it's around 6 months, similar to the mobile
> networks. You definitely don't have to make any calls though, as long as
> the account has been used at all in that time it will remain active. As I
> said, I don't think they ever have pulled any numbers through disuse, but
> it's natural that they should be able to, given that they give free
> geographic numbers.
>
> Ivor
>

Personally I think that they should pull PSTN numbers that don't get used-
from what I believe they have to pay a third party to use/register these
numbers, and with some people registering multiple accounts, getting many
PSTN numbers and then not using them or giving anything 'back', the cost has
to be covered elsewhere (by customers that pay to and do use the network-
resulting in higher charges). Or alternatively they will run out of money
and no longer offer free numbers without subscription etc.

Although I'm with sipgate, I agree with Draytel's 60-day setup (as long as
it allows for users who use the service to for example take an extended
holiday without loosing their line etc). Fly-by-night (fineria type
companies) show that the bubble bursts after a certain period of
unprofitability, which is an inconvenience and bad thing for those who rely
on the system.

Please note I'm on about issuing PSTN numbers and people abusing this fact
as the VOIP provider has to pay a third party for the privelidge of using
the number, not about VOIP providers that don't so therefore don't incur a
direct cost for each sign up.

"Alex" <> wrote in message
news:gXdof.11472$
> "Ivor Jones" <> wrote in message
> news:...
> >
> >
> > "Chris Blunt" <> wrote in
> > message news:
> > > On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:40:55 -0000, "Ivor Jones"
> > > <> wrote:
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > > > Actually, Sipgate do reserve the right to pull a
> > > > number through disuse, but AFAIK it's never
> > > > happened.
> > >
> > > I didn't know that. Do they specify any particular
> > > frequency that you are supposed to receive calls
> > > within to avoid being disconnected?
> >
> > I'm not 100% sure, I think it's around 6 months,
> > similar to the mobile networks. You definitely don't
> > have to make any calls though, as long as the account
> > has been used at all in that time it will remain
> > active. As I said, I don't think they ever have pulled
> > any numbers through disuse, but it's natural that they
> > should be able to, given that they give free geographic
> > numbers. Ivor
> >
>
> Personally I think that they should pull PSTN numbers
> that don't get used- from what I believe they have to pay
> a third party to use/register these numbers, and with
> some people registering multiple accounts, getting many
> PSTN numbers and then not using them or giving anything
> 'back', the cost has to be covered elsewhere (by
> customers that pay to and do use the network- resulting
> in higher charges). Or alternatively they will run out of
> money and no longer offer free numbers without
> subscription etc.

Indeed. I don't know how much they cost, but Sipgate and all the other
providers do have to pay people like Magrathea for their numbers.
> Although I'm with sipgate, I agree with Draytel's 60-day
> setup (as long as it allows for users who use the service
> to for example take an extended holiday without loosing
> their line etc). Fly-by-night (fineria type companies)
> show that the bubble bursts after a certain period of
> unprofitability, which is an inconvenience and bad thing
> for those who rely on the system.

I agree. If you want to leave your line unused for an extended period of
time, for example if you get posted overseas (although in that case it
might make sense to take an ATA with you..!) then any reasonable supplier
should be prepared to "park" a number for a small fee, maybe with a
recorded announcement.
> Please note I'm on about issuing PSTN numbers and people
> abusing this fact as the VOIP provider has to pay a third
> party for the privelidge of using the number, not about
> VOIP providers that don't so therefore don't incur a
> direct cost for each sign up.

Indeed. I have a FWD account that rarely gets used except if I need to
test something.

I wonder, incidentally, how www.ipkall.com make their money..? I (like
many others) have a totally free US number from them routing to my Sipgate
account, where do they get their income..?

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