All of this silliness didn't exist when I began riding in 1960. Most everyone got along then. I owned a '38 ULH and an Indian at times. But I was just another motorcyclist in a society that didn't really care who rode what. We did field meets where it didn't matter what anyone rode. Not until Easyrider and all of the exploitation films came out and divided the motorcycling community. The AMA didn't help, either. They just drove a wedge in between H-D and everyone else who was progressing technologically. I still remember when 750 H-Ds were getting their asses handed to them by 350 Yamahas. H-D paid good money to Porsche to design the VR1000, a concept they didn't have the expertise to develop into a competitive contender. Even today, H-D is having problems on dirt track from the Ducatis and Kawasakis who are blowing away the old XR750s. All they can depend on today is the outlaw image of those who still believe in the Harley fairy tale.

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You've been riding since the 60s and have over 2000 posts and spew such crap? Sad.

I don't give a sh*t about pirates, Easy Rider, Sonny Barger, SOA or what happens on the track. Believe it or not there are other reasons to own a Harley.

You have hit upon every pro-Harley argument on the entire internet. First, torque. Then, money. Then the old "stole your girlfriend in high school" line. Finally "shut the fuck up." You oughta work for Harley.

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I like all manners of bikes. Have you seen me make fun of other bikes? Nope. That's why you should shut your stupid yap, because I'm better than you.

All of this silliness didn't exist when I began riding in 1960. [ ... fill in more ignorant asshattery noncensical vomit]. All they can depend on today is the outlaw image of those who still believe in the Harley fairy tale.

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Keep posting. You make yourself sound more juvenile and foolish with every post.

All of this silliness didn't exist when I began riding in 1960. Most everyone got along then. I owned a '38 ULH and an Indian at times. But I was just another motorcyclist in a society that didn't really care who rode what. We did field meets where it didn't matter what anyone rode. Not until Easyrider and all of the exploitation films came out and divided the motorcycling community. The AMA didn't help, either. They just drove a wedge in between H-D and everyone else who was progressing technologically. I still remember when 750 H-Ds were getting their asses handed to them by 350 Yamahas. H-D paid good money to Porsche to design the VR1000, a concept they didn't have the expertise to develop into a competitive contender. Even today, H-D is having problems on dirt track from the Ducatis and Kawasakis who are blowing away the old XR750s. All they can depend on today is the outlaw image of those who still believe in the Harley fairy tale.

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Agreed. H-D sells the image and a lifestyle and not technology. A triumph of modern marketing hype and not of design.

Selling an image and a lifestyle is branding. Harley probably does it better than anyone, but Ducati and BMW do it very well too. Honda makes pretty good bikes too, but they can't give away a new VFR1200 because none of us can describe who a Honda rider is. There are pages of posts about HD pirates, Aerostich-wearing BMW snobs, and Ducati owners hanging out in cafes dressed like Valentino Rossi, drinking espresso and chatting it up with models. We identify with the lifestyle and we buy into the program. Apple's average laptop sells for 30% more than the industry average, but they all do basically the same things with the same basic parts, but Sony never had a Steve Jobs or catchy new Coldplay song in their commercials.

I'm not a Harley guy, but I'm a sales and marketing guy, and when you can get people tattooing your brand all over their bodies it's something that has to be admired. It's literally branding personified.

Selling an image and a lifestyle is branding. Harley probably does it better than anyone, but Ducati and BMW do it very well too. Honda makes pretty good bikes too, but they can't give away a new VFR1200 because none of us can describe who a Honda rider is. There are pages of posts about HD pirates, Aerostich-wearing BMW snobs, and Ducati owners hanging out in cafes dressed like Valentino Rossi, drinking espresso and chatting it up with models. We identify with the lifestyle and we buy into the program. Apple's average laptop sells for 30% more than the industry average, but they all do basically the same things with the same basic parts, but Sony never had a Steve Jobs or catchy new Coldplay song in their commercials.

I'm not a Harley guy, but I'm a sales and marketing guy, and when you can get people tattooing your brand all over their bodies it's something that has to be admired. It's literally branding personified.

I just wish most HD riders didn't ride like such twats.

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Agreed.

Btw, I'm your typical honda cruiser rider. By that I mean I wish I had a harley.

+1 to josephvman. I've owned two Harleys. Frankly, they sucked, but I didn't know any better at the time. I now have 3 Triumphs, a Ural, and a Honda, all of which I love. Each moto has its own character that compliments a certain type of person. At the end of the day, I'm an Equal Opportunity Offender. I make fun of everyone, including myself. For some reason though, most of my Harley riding friends really get their panties in a bunch over the joshing.

Sent from the voices in my head, and transcribed by their drinking buddy.

Selling an image and a lifestyle is branding. Harley probably does it better than anyone, but Ducati and BMW do it very well too. Honda makes pretty good bikes too, but they can't give away a new VFR1200 because none of us can describe who a Honda rider is. There are pages of posts about HD pirates, Aerostich-wearing BMW snobs, and Ducati owners hanging out in cafes dressed like Valentino Rossi, drinking espresso and chatting it up with models. We identify with the lifestyle and we buy into the program. Apple's average laptop sells for 30% more than the industry average, but they all do basically the same things with the same basic parts, but Sony never had a Steve Jobs or catchy new Coldplay song in their commercials.

I'm not a Harley guy, but I'm a sales and marketing guy, and when you can get people tattooing your brand all over their bodies it's something that has to be admired. It's literally branding personified.

I just wish most HD riders didn't ride like such twats.

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i agree that h-d is all about marketing, and they have it down. whether they can successfully extend it to newer riders, is still an open question, and much debated amongst motorcyclists. (and marketing guys.)

i don't like h-d the company simply cuz it eff'd erik buell. i don't like the h-d bikes cuz they're about as exciting to ride as a toyota camry is to drive. (imo, of course.) i have nothing against h-d riders or owners, and i don't think they ride like twats. most i have seen ride like old ladies, but at least most know to keep outta the fast lane. so, i got no problem w/that. and i got no problem w/whatever reason it is they wanna own and/or ride these bikes. that's their deal, not mine.

re: the vfr1200, as someone who owned the original '83 interceptor, and who has a relative w/a more modern vfr, i can tell you the reason that honda can't give away the new 1200vfr has nothing to do w/being able to describe who a honda rider is. (whatever that means.) it has everything to do with it being a bike that was built for a market that does not exist. the vfr1200 is a big fat 600lb pig. touring guys want something more touring oriented, sport guys want something more sport oriented, and no sport-touring guys want a big fat 600lb motorcycle. my vfr800 owning relative is a big guy about 6'-4", 240, (not fat); he checked out the new 1200vfr and said his 1200v-strom is a much better ride...

+1 to josephvman. I've owned two Harleys. Frankly, they sucked, but I didn't know any better at the time. I now have 3 Triumphs, a Ural, and a Honda, all of which I love. Each moto has its own character that compliments a certain type of person. At the end of the day, I'm an Equal Opportunity Offender. I make fun of everyone, including myself. For some reason though, most of my Harley riding friends really get their panties in a bunch over the joshing.

Sent from the voices in my head, and transcribed by their drinking buddy.

Killing off Buell was a huge mistake, especially since once they starting ditching the Sportster motor the bikes got much more refined and started to have wider appeal. The brand was doomed for failure from the beginning by marketing through the HD dealer network. Basically HD determined that it was easier to force-feed the HD dealers Buell inventory when the HD market was blowing and going than trying to setup actual Buell dealers and build the brand. Once the bikes leave the factory they really cease to be the manufacturer's problem, until the point when the dealers are loaded up and refuse to continue playing the game. Once Harley dealers could get virtually all the HD inventory they needed, and then some, HD could no longer play the "if you want this, you have to take this" game with Buell, and the rest is history.