OK--here's the deal. I've captured old 8mm home movies using a "Workprinter" which is a device that captures 8mm movies frame by frame and with the use of a program called "Cinecap" digitizes them and puts them on my computer as AVI files. So far-- so good---but here's where I get confused. I would like to load these captured AVI files into a video editor where they can be viewed and edited FRAME BY FRAME. Can that be done? Can these captured 8mm movies be displayed in an editors "timeline" FRAME BY FRAME and then enhanced (edited) and rendered into a movie, etc.?
Sounds simple enough to me, however, I'm having no luck---I must be missing something very obvious. Which I'm hoping someone here will kindly point out to me.
What am I missing---do the original 8mm movies need to be CAPTURED DIRECTLY INTO THE VIDEO EDITOR-----is that why I'm not able to view each frame of the captured movie because it's an AVI file? Are ther editors available that would allow me to accomplish this---or am I missing something with the one I have which is Cyberlinks Power Director 7.
OK--that's it for now----sure hope someone can straighten me out!
I realize I probably fit into the category of "knowing just enough to be dangerous."
Thanks,
PLW

That's a thought--uncompreesd---I'll give it a try.
Cinecap is a program that works in conjunction w/ the "Workprinter" device (www. Moviestuff.com) that captures the 8mm movie frame by frame and saves it as an AVI file. Apparently it produces AVI format/files only--no mpeg, etc. Wish I could tell you more about "Cinecap" but I wouldn't be doing it justice. It's designed specifically for transferring 8mm, super8mm, and 16mm film to video. (www.altewrnaware.com)
Don't know what else to tell you without getting in over my head----that's why I'm posting in this forum, ie: VIdeoHELP.com---what else what you like to know---I'll do my best to accomodate you in hopes that you, or someone, can offer some suggestions.
Thanks, PLW

Definitely get Virtualdub. Great tool, simple, powerful, an absolute Must Have piece of software for video.

You will soon learn that the term "AVI" doesn't really mean anything, it's very generic. Don't worry, you'll get there. However, "getting there" just tells you all the new places you can go.

Second piece of advice. The film you are working with is a piece of history, CUT NOTHING.

Did a similar project years ago, using much cruder methods. The "main events" of the original video were perhaps the Least Important or interesting bits.

Also, if at all possible, get the film narrated by someone who was in it or has knowledge of the events. I waited too long to get this done, and the opportunity is gone. I have only my memory of my parents comments after viewing the film, seperately. There were certain differences in their stories, at one point I told my mom how my dad had described somethng, and all she said was "Humpfh". There was a story there, and now I'll never know what it was.

I would argue that this process is "frame by frame" scanning. It does not appear to be scanning each individual frame into a digital format with a careful optical process, but rather making a movie, recording a video as the film passes in front of it, at a synchronized speed.

That moviestuff.tv site spends more time on testimonials than it does on useful technical information on its products. To me, that smells like a scam, or at very least over-pitching the quality of the products.

These devices appear to output DV compressed footage using a built-in camera of some sort. But I'm not really sure, as it sort of glosses over the specs. The information on their site is really half-assed and difficult to dissect. I'd also have to disagree with certain assertions about "needing RAID 0" given the limit information. RAID 0 is a dangerous setup, and performance increases can be negligible over the standard SATA or IDE/ATA/PATA 7200 rpm drives, especially if not using a dedicated RAID card.

It looks like it may be a decent product, but it's just so poorly presented and there are too many questions left unanswered.

You'll have to help us fill in the blanks, tell us what you observe on your end. What kind of "AVI" is it, for example? Stick it into GSPOT and let us know.

Without getting into the detail of the programs you are using, let's look at the big picture.

If you can get a frame by frame scan of your 8mm film, then you can edit/process in a variety of ways and export at various frame rates and video formats.

The trick is to get a true frame by frame capture. This is normally done on a scanner frame by frame or a "flying spot scanner" for automated capture as it plays.

So if your capture process produced a sequence of TIF or BMP or JPG stills, you are ready to proceed to editing. If you don't have individual frames, you need to go back to square one and analyze the capture process.

I've been searching high and low for an affordable means of digital frame-by-frame. I too am aware of the moviestuff equipment and the CineCap software. I've also read the various articles about building a flatbed scanner frame-by-frame.

A local guy has some box on the front of a old projector that he claims does 3ccd capture and he also uses CineCap or DodCap.

How does one make/purchase a true frame-by-frame capture device? There must be a way of doing this that doesn't include legos and a flatbed scanner. Leads and suggestions are welcome.

I know this is an old post but I wanted to clear a couple of things up.

Cinecap is basically a stop motion capture software program specifically written to work with a Moviestuff workprinter. A workprinter is a device that uses an old modified cine projector, plano convex field lens and video camcorder to transfer or telecine cine film to a computer hard drive as an AVI file. The CineCap program achieves this very well. The resulting AVI file can then be imported into just about any video editing program (I use Sony Vegas...stupendous prog ) for editing.

The projector is modified with a micro switch which is triggered as the cine film runs...this switch sends a signal to a modified computer mouse which in turn tells the CineCap software to capture individual frames of the film as they pass through the gate of the projector at 3fps or 6fps.

CineCap used to be available for purchase to anyone that wanted to buy it. This has changed recently and is now only available to owners of Moviestuff products.

Thanks for your response. I'd like to pick your brain a bit more.. so as I understand it you can take an older variable speed projector slow the film way down to 3-6 fps and use the capture software. Couple this with a 3ccd camera pointing towards the gate, diffused LED light rather than bulb, micro switch to modified computer mouse and you are doing frame by frame.

I am glad that lordsmurf jumped in here because I agree pretty much with what he said. Also there is a tendancy for people to confuse 8mm tape(camcorder) and 8mm film(celluloid). Most 8mm film stuff is so old by now that it is almost impossible to view it using a projector. I have some 8mm film that I would like to convert to pc somehow but using a projector is not possible in my case. Sometime ago a guy was working on a method using a scanner to make images of strips of film and then used software to remove the sprocket holes and then combine the strips into one long avi file for later editing. He has not been heard from since. If anyone has any info on this technique please post it here. There are a lot of people that would be grateful.

Thanks for your response. I'd like to pick your brain a bit more.. so as I understand it you can take an older variable speed projector slow the film way down to 3-6 fps and use the capture software. Couple this with a 3ccd camera pointing towards the gate, diffused LED light rather than bulb, micro switch to modified computer mouse and you are doing frame by frame.

Do I have this correct?

YES & NO!
The projector that you see from Moviestuff is similar in look only. The guts have been removed and replaced. The "frame gate" has been removed for full frame capture.
The Moviestuff projector LITERALLY captures one frame at a time. It is connected to a modified mouse that "clicks" every time a new frame is moved into the gate. That is why the Moviestuff runs at 1 to 7 frames/second (adjustable). That is also why one needs a fast computer with RAID-0 array to capture the information. When you are through downloading you have a .avi file that needs to be converted from the original (8mm 15 frames/sec, super8mm 18 frames/sec) to ntsc video at 30 frames/sec. The led light is used in the newer models of the Moviestuff "projectors".
I have been doing film transfer 8mm and 16mm for almost 8 years. I started with analogue/Elmo/VHS. and moved to Digital - Moviestuff in 2003. There is absolutely no comparison between "video taped" film and frame by frame capture; even if you use the same camera.
With a video camera, taping a projected image you will have a slightly blurred picture and, of course, the strobe effect.
The final .avi video file can be edited by ANY video editing program there is no trick involved. I use Pinnacle Studio 12, just my preference.

One additional note. The framerate transfer from 15fps to 30fps is handled within the Dodcap capture program. All it does is double every frame. With the 18fps it uses a formula that almost doubles the rate to 30fps.
Once in your non-Linear-Editing program you can see and edit each individual frame just like you can with any .avi file.
I'm sure that this will generate more questions.
Later...