Democratic Ideals are not what killed Detroit

I am sick of this political *** being used here. Yes Detroit has largely supported Democratic ideals by continually voting Blue. But that is not why a city like Detroit failed.

Many countries around the world have found a way to successfully implement both what American's call Conservative and Social policies. Successfully being key there. I am not talking about Greece or Spain but more of Germany and Switzerland. Its not the ideologies. Both have good and bad and both need the other and a balance in how they are handled.

Detroit failed because of stupidity, thievery and always having a bloody excuse rather than dealing with the issue at hand. It failed because it relied on one industry that couldn't support itself anymore. It failed because its citizens let hate control them and how they operate in their daily lives. It failed because people would rather argue about lefty vs righty nonsense than look at the whole picture and do what was needed.

Hey sounds a lot like the American Federal government. So maybe its time political ideologies get put aside and people work at the issues and not create obstacles.

Lay off of Greece. and Spain.I will not talk about Detroit. I may have to agree with you about Detroit but my beef with you isw hinting about Greece.I dont care about Spain, nor Switzerland nor Germany. I do care about Greece.Greece went bankrupt partly because Greece never really recovered from the Ottoman Empire. 1821 was when Greece got her freedom back. But... not all Turks had left Greece. Actually, Greek-Turkish war was still present during WW1. Then the depression happened in the 30s. Then WW2 happened. Greece had a civil war after WW2. Greece had another civil conflict in the 60s. I know you are Canadian, like me, but Canada, as a young nation, never had to go through misery like Greece had to go through. Canada, was just a vast territory, waiting to be explored, when Greece fell to the Ottoman Empire. When Greece finally got her freedom back, Canada had already settled its conflicts and was on its way to become an economic power. When WW1 started and WW2 started and in between the Depression, Canada was a leader economically. Greece was in shambles. Greece went through TWO civil wars in a span of 20 years while Canada enjoyed growth from immigrants. Including immigrants from Greece. Canada helped the USA acquire the Atomic bomb. Canada made money from selling its natural resources to the world. Canada, during that time was a military presence with Britain's and US's help, had state of the art weapons. Canada, also invented many things during that time span. Canada was on its way up. Greece, well Greece did not enjoy that kind of status. Greece, was poor. Greece, although did not need help to push back the Italians during WW2, Greece got crushed by the Nazis. Greece, got bombarded badly. Greece, hadnt seen that kind of power, compared to Canada during the 40s and 50s, since the days of Alexander 2000 years before. So... without going too much into detail why Greece is in shambles today, I hope you got the message. In other words, dont mention Greece and why Greece has failed. Greece hasnt been much of a country since Alexander. Greece was under Roman Rule, Venetian Rule, British Rule, Ottoman Rule, back to British Rule, then European Rule. And one wonders why Greece has failed? We can blame lazy Greeks. We can blame corrupt Greeks. We can even blame socialism, but somehow we forget to blame the rest.

PR32A:I am sick of this political *** being used here. Yes Detroit has largely supported Democratic ideals by continually voting Blue. But that is not why a city like Detroit failed.

Many countries around the world have found a way to successfully implement both what American's call Conservative and Social policies. Successfully being key there. I am not talking about Greece or Spain but more of Germany and Switzerland. Its not the ideologies. Both have good and bad and both need the other and a balance in how they are handled.

Detroit failed because of stupidity, thievery and always having a bloody excuse rather than dealing with the issue at hand. It failed because it relied on one industry that couldn't support itself anymore. It failed because its citizens let hate control them and how they operate in their daily lives. It failed because people would rather argue about lefty vs righty nonsense than look at the whole picture and do what was needed.

Hey sounds a lot like the American Federal government. So maybe its time political ideologies get put aside and people work at the issues and not create obstacles.

1) No...they haven't. germany is undergoing a recession as we live and breath today, they are keeping it quiet but they are currently stagnating at a rapid pace because they are an enormously export dominated economy and the asian market is undergoing a currency death spiral. japan has 240% public debt; china 200%...greece has 187% (hard to nail these down; everyone has a different number). punchline the germans are facing the end of the gravy train and will retake their place as the sick man of europe that they held 15 years ago.

PS:The US is in conflict with a couple of countries right now and for the last decade. This alone was enough to nearly cripple the country. We are talking about the US. THE superpower of THE world. And we are surprised that Greece didnt make it?

US becomes a country. Industrial revolution shortly there after begins. US begins to emerge as a force. Greece just finally gets her freedom back. Still at war though. OK, The US is at war with itself. Ill call that even.

The Depression starts. Greece and the US are even. Or are they? The US gets growth from immigration. Ill still call it even.

After WW2, the US is the only power left with no damage to its homeland and home infrastructure. The US grows in leaps and bounds. Korea and Vietnam make the US economy stumble in some areas but grow in others. lets us not forget that Greece had 2 civil wars and joins the US in Korea. Ill call that a massive advantage for the US.

Greece in the 80s and 90s and early 2000s see a slight growth in their economy. But are they the superpower they once were? Well maybe they did produce and sell the most olives , olive oil, figs and feta cheese in their history at this time.

I dont want you to think that I want your sympathy for Greece. But I want you guys to understand that a country fails because MAJOR problems exist. SEVERAL problems.

I guess we can include cities. Detroit. Well, Detroit is special. I see Montreal in Detroit. But thank god that our political leaders, whether they are separists, union collaborators like Detroit is or Hells Angels/Mafia payroll puppets, have realized to clean things up.

PR32A:I am sick of this political *** being used here. Yes Detroit has largely supported Democratic ideals by continually voting Blue. But that is not why a city like Detroit failed.

Many countries around the world have found a way to successfully implement both what American's call Conservative and Social policies. Successfully being key there. I am not talking about Greece or Spain but more of Germany and Switzerland. Its not the ideologies. Both have good and bad and both need the other and a balance in how they are handled.

Detroit failed because of stupidity, thievery and always having a bloody excuse rather than dealing with the issue at hand. It failed because it relied on one industry that couldn't support itself anymore. It failed because its citizens let hate control them and how they operate in their daily lives. It failed because people would rather argue about lefty vs righty nonsense than look at the whole picture and do what was needed.

Hey sounds a lot like the American Federal government. So maybe its time political ideologies get put aside and people work at the issues and not create obstacles.

lord humongous:1) No...they haven't. germany is undergoing a recession as we live and breath today, they are keeping it quiet but they are currently stagnating at a rapid pace because they are an enormously export dominated economy and the asian market is undergoing a currency death spiral. japan has 240% public debt; china 200%...greece has 187% (hard to nail these down; everyone has a different number). punchline the germans are facing the end of the gravy train and will retake their place as the sick man of europe that they held 15 years ago.

Germany is in a recession only because of all that bailout cash that their banks keep dishing out to help Greece, Italy, Spain and even France.

Germany is also in a recession because of said countries not buying goods from Germany as much as previous decades because, well, those country's people are, well, poor and jobless.

Germany was the sick man of Europe because, well Germany was divided in two. Although Western Germany did fair better than her Eastern communist counterpart. Let us not forget the limitations that were put on Germany after WW2.

I wouldnt worry too much about Germany. Germany is an economic force. They produce plenty of products that are sold worldwide and their banks, if they can keep afloat for a couple more years during these bailout times, will regain their strength. Or, if the Euro fails, the Deutsche Mark will be reintroduced and all will be well again.The German banks were, are and will continue to be Europe's back bone.

Oldshurst:PS:The US is in conflict with a couple of countries right now and for the last decade. This alone was enough to nearly cripple the country. We are talking about the US. THE superpower of THE world. And we are surprised that Greece didnt make it?

US becomes a country. Industrial revolution shortly there after begins. US begins to emerge as a force. Greece just finally gets her freedom back. Still at war though. OK, The US is at war with itself. Ill call that even.

The Depression starts. Greece and the US are even. Or are they? The US gets growth from immigration. Ill still call it even.

After WW2, the US is the only power left with no damage to its homeland and home infrastructure. The US grows in leaps and bounds. Korea and Vietnam make the US economy stumble in some areas but grow in others. lets us not forget that Greece had 2 civil wars and joins the US in Korea. Ill call that a massive advantage for the US.

Greece in the 80s and 90s and early 2000s see a slight growth in their economy. But are they the superpower they once were? Well maybe they did produce and sell the most olives , olive oil, figs and feta cheese in their history at this time.

I dont want you to think that I want your sympathy for Greece. But I want you guys to understand that a country fails because MAJOR problems exist. SEVERAL problems.

I guess we can include cities. Detroit. Well, Detroit is special. I see Montreal in Detroit. But thank god that our political leaders, whether they are separists, union collaborators like Detroit is or Hells Angels/Mafia payroll puppets, have realized to clean things up.

alright hold on. i didn't mean to impugn greek honor. i know its a matter of importance for you. and yes having been to greece personally its a wonderful country.

1) absolutely because we are pursuing a humanist war. how that works, we are poignantly displaying now. if you want to wage war in the 3rd world the b52 makes your point (35 2k lbs bombs at a time); not 1 or 2 multimillion dollar smart bombs. so in this you are absolutely right we were imbeciles. we went for quality over quantity in an area where quantity is what matters

2) not so much. in the first 150 years of US independence we were an agricultural backwater who hadn't explored our interior. it was only after the civil war that we went westward. it wasn't until ww1 that america began to realize her potential.

great depression -> first gen money men muck it up (lol just like now) they should be banned permanently

post ww2 agreed we took every advantage. then got crushed in the 70's by that peanut munching imbecile carter from which we never recovered

no in the 80's 90's 2000's greece suffered from corruption more than anything else. you own a business; tell me again what is most damaging to business longevity.

agreed...it takes a perfect storm

montreal has a unique set of issues, which primarily stem from their desire to BE FRENCH at any cost; despite the fact that real french people thing them ignorant unlettered peasants who cant speak properly. granted they thing the Louisiana creoles are barely better than savages (err maybe not). detroit failed because it failed to remain competitive. the reason why is blatantly obvious; they put the inmates in charge of the asylum. there is a reason the pool boy is not your stock broker.
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Wars cost money. A good economy in today's world, finances that. Tax payers money. OK we are good. In Greece's glory days, looting other countries financed wars. Good. The US, since WW2 has had a tremendous economy. One civil and one military. The US war machine makes billions, no scratch that, trillions in selling weapons to other countries. Canada has bought F-18s and on the verge of buying F-23s, if the plane is not canceled, from the US. Greece has bought Corsairs, Phantoms and Falcons from the US. That, also, finances the US war machine in case you havent noticed.

And no, I dont think you are imbeciles. You guys gotta do what you guys gotta do.

The great Depression hit everyone. But WW2 got the industrialized, economic powerhouses, then and of the near future for that time, going. The factories started producing, putting people to work. Ye old war machine is a money maker. Greece, didnt have that. Greece was not part of the industrial revolution. Greece was still stuck in the 1400s. Ottoman Empire. The Brits lent her some weapons, but that is it.

While its true that the US after WW1 and during WW2 became wha she became, but remember, the US was an industrialized nation, even during your civil war. Its in the UK that this industrial revolution began, but the US was not far behind, Greece got her freedom back from the Turks at this time. My people were slaves to them Turks.

I do have to say one thing though. Greece was a formidable ship builder in the 50s, 60s and 70s. Greece let that go to hell. Or was it the European community that helped it die? I dont know.

Again with the corruption.Chicago, 1920s. Corruption.Did that cripple Chicago? Yes.Enough for bankruptcy? No!Nearly did, but didnt happen.Sure Greece was corrupt. But was not as corrupt as Mexico or other South American countries. Bottom line is that Greece did not have any indusrty. No factories.Greece's economy. Olives, olive oil, figs, feta cheese and tourism. Let me remind you that Greece is a very small country. Greece fits in Quebec 7 times. The population of New York City alone in the 80s was DOUBLE that of the whole country. Today its almost triple. With all that land and population that the US has, the agricultural economy of the US in no time beat Greece's. The US has 1000 times the fertile land that Greece has. Californias wine vineyards are double, triple the size of the whole country. California produces almost as much olives and olive oil as Greece does. It just that Greece's product is recognized as being better that is why Greece may still sell more. Not the wines though. California produces more wine. Florida has 3 times the oranges that Greece has. Get the picture?

The country not collecting property tax because property was NOT taxed and income tax was not filed by many may be an issue, but a more back breaking issue is how the European community has used Greece. Let us not get into details as this is about Detroit. And the list is loooong.

Aboiut Montreal.Yes, many English have fled the city. Yes many businesses also fled. Yes many businesses dont want to come here. But Montreal still thrives. Its NOT a poor city. Its NOT on the verge of bankruptcy. Our Province is. But that is for another debate.

And no MONTREAL is not dead set in becoming French at all costs. The Province WAS. Some political leaders. But you have to know Quebec history to understand why. The majority of the people of Quebec dont want that at all costs. They just want their Province to be French. Is that so bad? The majority of the people of Quebec ARE French. From France! If the English controlled companies were to understand this and NOT impose THEIR authority on this, Quebec would be fine. Instead, we have language issues and crap. Cant blame the people. Cant blame the businesses. What to do? But the English controlled businesses dont even want to do business in French in Quebec. Only English. But the majority of people of Quebec are French. so... the French people always have to bow down to the English, right? But that is the one special thing about Montreal and Montrealers. We live in both languages quite comfortably, I might add. Always had. Always will. Now, Quebec City also. And that puts us ahead in the global economic scale. So...Quebec's future looks good. Not now, but in the next 20 years. Montreal will regain what they lost during the 70s. Montreal will slowly catch Toronto and give Toronto a run for their money. ? Another reason why? Montreal's geographic location. This political mess that started in the 70s, companies relunctantly left Montreal. They will come back, and new ones will appear. If it wasnt for that political instability in the 70s, but it was necessary, Toronto would still be a cow town.

PS: Thanx about you saying Greece is a wonderful country.It is. Its beautiful. I recommend everyone to visit her one day. And if not Greece, any country bordering the Mediterranean. That sea is just stunning.

Detroit failed because of stupidity, thievery and always having a bloody excuse rather than dealing with the issue at hand.

Sounds like Democrat ideals to me! I kid, sort of. Obviously, there is basic economics that helped doom Detroit, but Democrats have been in control in Detroit for decades. [Stupidity] Absolute power corrupts, and Detroit has seen it fare share of corrupt leaders. [Thievery]Combine that with Democrat ideals of big government- that the government can take care of everyone (just tax the "rich" to pay for it), without the foresight to see what happens when the "rich" simply get up and move out. [Excuses] Now all those promises, like pensions, need to be cut but instead of admitting to failed policies, Democrats are calling the state take-over of Detroit, a "dictatorship."
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Wars cost money. A good economy in today's world, finances that. Tax payers money. OK we are good. In Greece's glory days, looting other countries financed wars. Good. The US, since WW2 has had a tremendous economy. One civil and one military. The US war machine makes billions, no scratch that, trillions in selling weapons to other countries. Canada has bought F-18s and on the verge of buying F-23s, if the plane is not canceled, from the US. Greece has bought Corsairs, Phantoms and Falcons from the US. That, also, finances the US war machine in case you havent noticed.

And no, I dont think you are imbeciles. You guys gotta do what you guys gotta do.

The great Depression hit everyone. But WW2 got the industrialized, economic powerhouses, then and of the near future for that time, going. The factories started producing, putting people to work. Ye old war machine is a money maker. Greece, didnt have that. Greece was not part of the industrial revolution. Greece was still stuck in the 1400s. Ottoman Empire. The Brits lent her some weapons, but that is it.

While its true that the US after WW1 and during WW2 became wha she became, but remember, the US was an industrialized nation, even during your civil war. Its in the UK that this industrial revolution began, but the US was not far behind, Greece got her freedom back from the Turks at this time. My people were slaves to them Turks.

I do have to say one thing though. Greece was a formidable ship builder in the 50s, 60s and 70s. Greece let that go to hell. Or was it the European community that helped it die? I dont know.

Again with the corruption.Chicago, 1920s. Corruption.Did that cripple Chicago? Yes.Enough for bankruptcy? No!Nearly did, but didnt happen.Sure Greece was corrupt. But was not as corrupt as Mexico or other South American countries. Bottom line is that Greece did not have any indusrty. No factories.Greece's economy. Olives, olive oil, figs, feta cheese and tourism. Let me remind you that Greece is a very small country. Greece fits in Quebec 7 times. The population of New York City alone in the 80s was DOUBLE that of the whole country. Today its almost triple. With all that land and population that the us had, the agricultural economy of the US in no time beat Greece's. The US has 100o times the fertile land that Greece has. Californias wine vineyards are double, triple the size of the whole country. California produces almost as much olives and olive oil as Greece does. It just that Greece's product is recognized as being better. Not the wnes though. California produces more wine. Florida has 3 times the oranges that Greece has. Get the picture?

The country not collecting property tax because property was NOT taxed and income tax was not filed by many may be an issue, but a more back breaking issue is how the European community has used Greece. Let us not get into details as this is about Detroit. And the list is loooong.

Aboiut Montreal.Yes, many English have fled the city. Yes many businesses also fled. Yes many businesses dont want to come here. But Montreal still thrives. Its NOT a poor city. Its NOT on the verge of bankruptcy. Our Province is. But that is for another debate.

And no MONTREAL is not dead set in becoming French at all costs. The Province WAS. Some political leaders. But you have to know Quebec history to understand why. The majority of the people of Quebec dont want that at all costs. They just want their Province to be French. Is that so bad? The majority of the people of Quebec ARE French. From France! If the English controlled companies were to understand this and NOT impose THEIR authority on this, Quebec would be fine. Instead, we have language issues and crap. Cant blame the people. Cant blame the businesses. What to do? But the English controlled businesses dont even want to do business in French in Quebec. Only English. But the majority of people of Quebec are French. so... the French people always have to bow down to the English, right? But that is the one special thing about Montreal and Montrealers. We live in both languages quite comfortably, I might add. Always had. Always will. Now, Quebec City also. And that puts us ahead in the global economic scale. So...Quebec's future looks good. Not now, but in the next 20 years. Montreal will regain what they lost during the 70s. Montreal will slowly catch Toronto and give Toronto a run for their money. ? Another reason why? Montreal's geographic location. This political mess that started in the 70s, companies relunctantly left Montreal. They will come back, and new ones will appear. If it wasnt for that political instability in the 70s, but it was necessary, Toronto would still be a cow town.

PS: Thanx about you saying Greece is a wonderful country.It is. Its beautiful. I recommend everyone to visit her one day. And if not Greece, any country bordering the Mediterranean. That sea is just stunning.

holeeee... cow, i can see i stirred up some feelings. i in no way meant to offend you

1) i assume in place of f23 you mean the f35 lightning which is the international stealth fighter. (a moronic attempt at diplomacy, too many fingers in one pie which means the aircraft is a hodgepodge of incoherent concepts with no real final focus). btw thank you for buying our fighter craft

erm yes we were imbeciles, but thank you for being kind

as for the great depression america was at best second world at the time. think of us like the economy of frankly Greece today. we were the nudge that broke the camels back.

seriously... "to them Turks" however i enormously support your resurgence against the Seljuq Turks (no it's not Seljuk) and i fully support any effort to blast them out of Cyprus.

i don't actually know anything about this so i shall simply remain mum

we are well aware of economies of scale trust me. Germany is the same size as Montana, the whole of the British isles as Wyoming. what is important is population density. Greece as a whole has a fairly high one which indicates that available resources are fairly well utilized. in the USA not so much. we have a huge resource base that remains in relative reserve

as for taxes; the Greeks and the Detroiters never paid any. perhaps that is an issue? as i said i have been to Greece; getting anyone to accept a credit card is impossible "our machine is broken" must be the national anthem

erm yes it does seem that way, yes it is that bad( the business community HATES rebellious types), no they aren't from "france" the French have a negative 2.1 birthrate they would be bust if they sent you that many, wow...being a victim much (globally everyone lols at this). as for bowing down; pretty much...get over it. as for Toronto no...you wont. i've been to business conferences in both cities Toronto is smoking you.

ps the med is gorgeous as are the greek isles unfortunately the gov is racing at manic pace to pollute it
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Yes F-35. Im usually excellent with aircraft, but late at night and really not reading much on the F-35 other that Canada's defense ministry feels that the aircraft is a dud. Yes I know that Germany, Canada, US and the UK developped some of the technologies in that plane. I momentarily forgot the proper aircraft name though. Silly me.We did have the Avrow Arrow. It was scuttled. Some Canadians think it was you 'Mericans that convinced Conservative Diefenbaker to kill the program because you "Mericans wanted us to continue buying your aircraft. I, however, read that while it was true, it was because the Arrow was so advanced that the US feared other countries stealing info on it and since we werent exactly equipped properly to thwart any spying, it was scuttled, but the technology that went into that plane, the US bought from us. Plus, we always continued to work together anyway. Canadian Uranium is still used for your nuclear needs. We bombed Japan alongside you.

Not imbeciles. Every country looks after its own interests. Foreign policies of every empire that ever existed is the same. Why should the US be any different? The Brits, The Russians, the French, the Romans, the Greeks, The Persians, the Chinese the Egyptians. I could go on. One thing I will say is that, even if US foreign policy is a little iffy at times, its still no worse or brutal than the former empires I have mentioned. In most cases, the US has helped many nations. The US gave millions to Greece in the 50s in all sorts of aides. I am grateful for that. Its too bad that the Greeks feel betrayed by the Americans because the US also helped Turkey.

Them Turks... No, I am not angry at modern Turkey. The past is in the past. Yet, I will never forgive or forget what them Turks did to my people. After all, we were slaves to them for close to 400 years. Plus, the Atheniam Partheneon was used as an Ottoman ammunition dump resulting in an explosion severely damaging the Parthenon and its sculptures. Also, In 1806, Lord Mothereffin Elgin removed some of the surviving sculptures, with the permission of the Ottoman Empire. That means, in the 1600s, the Partheneon was intact. Like it was first built in 550 BC. For 2000 years, the Parthenon was alive. And a little more than 200 years ago, Lord effin Elgin STOLE our marbles. The Turks sold them for binoculars. BINOCULARS. Add insult to injury, the Brits dont want to give the Marbles back, because they say a sale is a sale, even though international law states that ruling countries have no right to another countries heritage, the effin Turks dont even want to give us the binoculars either.

I never have a problems in buying things with a credit card in Greece, but maybe Visa has taken away the machine because of fraud. It has happened to me where I bought some items in Greece and the dumb Greek said he was going to ship them to me in Montreal, but never did. I called Visa, Visa reimbursed me, got the money from the guy and took his machine away from him.

Yes I know Toronto is smoking us. Toronto is smoking many cities. In Canada, in the US and in the world actually. I should feel proud that the Toronto area is the 5th biggestin North America in terms of population and economy. What I am most happy about is that Toronto is an American city. Montreal still gets to be the biggest Canadian city!!! We havent lost our good Canadian charm.PS: I know that lols are happenning at the expense at some Quebec political leaders. And they deserve it. But some LOLS are because some English dont want to let go of the British Colonial Empire. Even if some of the English LOLS come from the U.S.A. Some of you have forgotten that France had two thirds of North America at one time. Some of you have forgotten that the French, from Quebec, ultimately from France and the Native Americans that were in allegiance with France helped you guys become a nation. Some of you dont know, but the British businessmen that became English Canadian after your Independance from England ruled the Quebecois with an iron fist. This is the reason why some Quebecois wanted to separate. But some also remembered that the term Canadiens, was a term for New France in the New World for the French living in North America. Along with Acadiens. They know that and feel proud that, they are as much a part of Canada being French as the English are. Some English also feel this way. So, even as what I have said about the English/French rivalry, this nation finds away to unite itself. And with the help of the other Canadian immigrants that have found themselves in this turmoil, we all somehow stick together. and this is the reason why I think Montreal will regain what it lost. ultimately, Montreal has a geographical advantage. Montreal has a linguistic advantage. Montreal has an ethnic advantge. Montreal has also a historic advantage as Montreal had that role before. It knows how to handle big business. It seems like Toronto has this lead forever, but I dont think so.

you guys are silly. Your arguing that liberalism didnt kill city/state XYZ, yet every example your arguing about suffered from the same long term far left massive government and overpowered union problems.

Greece had a long time to recover from the ottomans and turks. Yea, they are not a rich country when it comes to natural resources but they could have become rich in tech, auto, or any of a dozen other things. Instead they chose the "easy" lie of mother government and massive cradle to grave benefits. Those benefits that are currently killing them now. Greece is a country with a colorful and very important history. However, it was increasingly liberal choices that continue to hold them down... not the past.

Detroit is not very different. How far back to do you have to go to find anything other than democrat and Union/UAW control? They've had a monopoly for decades. It's also no coincidence that most of the cities in this country that are filing or near filing for bankruptcy are all in long time democrat areas. To ignore the common denominator is just ridiculous. We all have our beliefs but ya gotta wake up and see the world for what it is.