A little forward, I have some things against the Snowscaper and the Snowsoul and the Wintersmith, but not a lot, in fact I took a lot of materials from those classes to make this one, so credit given where credit is due. However, I do not think that they went far enough so I will endeavor to make my own version.

Icewright"Try to see things from my perspective. After you freeze to death, I won't have to deal with any twitches when I'm making a sculpture."

Proficiencies: An Icewright is proficient with Light Armor, Shields, Simple Weapons, and anything he has made of Ice.

Caster Level: If you happen to allow items that increase Caster level, you should probably let it increase all the effects of an Icewright's abilities. If an effect requires a Caster level, it is equal to his character level unless it is increased by items or effects.

Make Some Stuff (Su): An Icewright can conjure ice or snow and make an object out of it. He can create a Tiny or smaller item with a full round action anywhere within Close range. He can make larger items up to Medium size with an additional round per size category larger than Tiny.

The items created are non magical ice that can have the consistency and strength of steel, iron, cloth, wood, glass, or stone. However, items created decay after one day per character level unless life force is invested in them. A Icewright can only invest his life force in one item per character level + Wisdom Modifier.

Though he can make any weapon or armor out of ice, he does not have the fine control to otherwise make anything with movable parts, whether they be hinges, pulleys, or levers. Any item in which he invests his life force can be of masterwork quality.

Ice Shards (Su): An Icewright can, as a standard action, throw ice shards in front of him as ranged touch attack that does 1d8 per character level plus the higher of his Wisdom mod or character level to a target in close range. The damage is half piercing and half cold.

Ice Armor (Ex): While wearing armor crafted by his Make Stuff powers, an Icewright gain resistance to Cold equal to twice his level, and his Armor bonus can be converted to a deflection bonus to Armor Class if he chooses.

Ice Field (Su): As a standard action an Icewright of level 2 or higher can lay down a field of ice with a 10ft radius within Medium Range. The effect acts as a Grease spell and further, any enemy on the field who is struck with shards of Ice is immobilized in their current location for one round. The DC is 10+1/2 character level+Wis modifier. The duration is instantaneous, which means the field lasts forever, or until it suffers 10HP of fire damage per square.

Make Stuff items can be created anchored to the Icy Field, in which case they are completely immobile, and can only be destroyed by HP damage. This can only be used to immobilize, pin, or otherwise anchor a creature if that creature is unconscious or willing.

For the purposes of heat damage, the field is not immune to non lethal damage, and the damage counts as fire. The Ice Field does not have Hardness against Fire.

An Icewright suffers no negative effects from his own Ice Field, and further, his movement costs half on such a field.

An Icewright can create an Icy Field over any liquid except Lava, and create solid terrain.

At level 7 he can create the field over Lava, he can create a cloud with the same effects as standard action, or he can create the field on the ground as a swift action.

Further, anyone inside the cloud version of the Ice Field takes 1d6 cold damage per character level, Ref save for half.

Make Smaller Stuff (Ex): An Icewright of level 3 or higher can now make moving parts of all kinds.

Mind Chill (Sp): As a standard action an Icewright of level 3 or higher can chill the mind of a target within medium range. This can either have the effects of calm emotion, or it creates a reverse sanctuary effect.

If the reverse Sanctuary effect is used any time that the target attempts to strike or otherwise directly attack another creature, even with a targeted spell, the target must attempt a Will save. If the save succeeds, the target can attack that creature normally, but still must make a Will save to attack a different creature. If the save fails, the target canít follow through with the attack, that part of its action is lost, and it canít directly attack that creature for the duration of the mind chill unless that creature attacks it. This ability does not prevent the target from using area or effect abilities. The target can, without making a Will save, attack any creature that attacks them first after the brain freeze begins.

Either way, the duration of the effect is 10 rounds and the save DC is 10+1/2 level+Wis mod.

Better Ice Shards (Su): An Icewright of level 4 or higher can now fire his regular Ice Shards out to medium range.

Alternatively he can also Fire Ice Shards in a Line out to 100ft that does the same damage to everyone in the line, with a Ref save for half, DC 10+1/2 character level+Wis mod.

Alternatively, he can fire a single Ice Shard that does 1 cold damage and 1 piercing damage per character level and forces a Fort Save against DC 10+1/2 character level+Wis mod of be stunned for one round and slowed for 5 rounds. On a successful save, they are slowed for one round.

Ice Mirror (Sp): When an Icewright of level 4 or higher uses his Make Stuff abilities to create a mirror, any smooth reflective surface with the strength and consistency of glass, and anchors it to an Ice Field he may use it to cast Scry at will.

Wall of Ice (Sp): An Icewright of level 5 or higher may cast Wall of Ice at will. DC 10+1/2 level+Wis mod.

Ice Lenses (Su): An Icewright of level 6 or higher can craft lenses of ice, that when used as glasses by the Icewright (and no one else) provide him with the effect of See Invisibility and immunity to gaze attacks or other attacks that trigger on seeing things. These must have life force invested in them to work.

Further, when he makes his save against a figment, he may take a standard action to dispel it with his lenses.

Heart of Ice (Ex): An Icewright of level 6 or higher isn't big on emotion, so he replaces his heart with a chunk of ice. Whenever he is wearing armor created by his Make Stuff abilities he is immune to Fear, Compulsion, Morale effects, and Cold.

Snow Pet (Su): An Icewright of level 7 or higher can create an Animated Snow creature given 1 minute. This acts as an Animated Object of CR no greater than his CR-4 except that the object has the speed of a wheels version regardless of it's form. Additionally, it's hardness does not apply against fire attacks.

He may only have one of in existence at a time.

Make Bigger Stuff (Ex): An Icewright of level 7 or higher can make Stuff up to Colossal Size, subject to the previous rules for action costs.

Better Ice Mirror (Sp): An Icewright of level 8 or higher can now travel between any Mirrors that are anchored to an Ice Field. He can also bring others along if they are touching him as he travels through. He can know the status (broken or not) of all his mirrors by touching any of them.

Mind Freeze (Sp): An Icewright of level 9 or higher can freeze the minds of his enemies. They must beat a Will save DC 10+1/2 level+Wis mod, or be dazed for 3 rounds. This is a Mind Affecting effect (in case the name didn't give it away).

Body of Ice (Ex): An Icewright of level 10 or higher can perform a ritual that replaces his body with one made of living ice. The new body will then assume the form of the previous body, mimicking it perfectly. With this new body the Icewright no longer needs to eat, breath, drink or sleep and he becomes immune to ability damage and drain and any effect requiring a Fortitude save unless it also affects objects. Finally, the Icewright can use ice creation abilities to repair his new body, healing his level in damage with a swift action but he has no more natural healing. At this point the Icewright does not suffer age penalties and cannot die of old age.

Make Better Stuff (Ex): An Icewright of level 10 or higher masters his ice manufacturing:

First, he may manufacture magical items of Ice. All Armor, Shields, or weapons that he invests his life force in can have an enhancement bonus equal to 1/3rd his level, rounded up. These items do not count as a magical item for the purposes of the 8 item limit. Further, he can make any permanent magic item out of ice without investing his life force by expending the XP and gold to do so (or whatever you use in your game as crafting materials). This basically means he has all the crafting feats, but everything he makes is made of ice.

Make Stuff Faster (Su): An Icewright of level 10 or higher can create ice objects on moving creatures. Treat this as a Ref or Fort save DC 10+1/2 level+Wis mod to negate, whichever is better for the creature, against being Held with a duration as long as the created object will last. The DM should also not allow it to work on any creature it wouldn't make sense to work on, IE, elementals in whirlwind form, anything incorporeal, oozes too big to be totally enclosed, ect.

The creature can escape the trap with a strength check or escape artist check of DC 15+Character level+Wisdom Mod.

Snow Man (Su): An Icewright of level 11 or higher can just build his own body out of snow, and leave it somewhere handy. When his current body dies, he can just move his soul over to the new body. This process takes 1d4 days. Additionally because this requires his full attention and power, all his created ice objects no longer have life force invested in them if he does so, beginning their decay of character level days (and possibly reducing their quality to not masterwork, or not magical). However, this has no effect on items created by investing XP, because those items no longer rely on the Icewright to maintain.

An Icewright can have multiple snowbodies, but each one must have his life force invested in it to function. Additionally, crafting a body, because of the fine magical work required, takes one full day of crafting.

Black Ice (Su): An Icewright of level 11 or higher gains mastery of the dreaded Black Ice, ice so cold it bores a hole to the negative energy plane.

All of his ice effects can be made of Black Ice. His attacks also can cause one negative level, touching an object of ice will also cause one negative level. His Animated Snow Constructs cause a negative level with each attack. Enemies striking a person wearing Black Ice Armor suffer a negative level.

The Icewright is immune to his own Black Ice, and when wearing Armor made of Black Ice, he is immune to negative energy effects.

Blizzard (Su): An Icewright of level 12 or higher can summon a Blizzard, creating a cylinder of pounding snow either with a 40ft radius and 40ft height or 400ft radius and 400ft height. This effect lasts for 2 minutes. This blocks line of sight and does 1d6 cold damage per Character level and half as much bludgeoning damage. In addition, the entire area is difficult terrain, and any creature that ends its turn inside the effect and fails a reflex save DC 10+1/2 character level+Wisdom Mod is buried under snow. When the effect ends, the snow remains on the ground, but loses it's supernatural coldness and becomes regular snow.

A creature buried under snow no longer has line of effect to anything besides the snow burying it, and no one else has line of effect to it. Further the creature is immobilized and rendered helpless by the snow pressing in. They must hold their breath or begin drowning. They continue to take cold damage, negative levels if the Blizzard is Black Ice, and bludgeoning damage for the duration of the effect. A creature can take purely mental actions (such as activating an SLA or many supernatural abilities) but cannot take physical actions except for two actions. First, the creature can choose to attempt to break out of the snow building on top of it as a full round action. This requires a Strength check DC 20+Icewright's Caster level+Wisdom modifier. The creature remains within the effect of the blizzard, and must save again on it's next turn to avoid reburial but is otherwise freed of all the status effects imposed on it. Secondly, the creature can attempt to cast any spell with a purely verbal component or open it's mouth to use a breath weapon, after the character has taken this action, they are no longer permitted to choose to hold their breath, and being drowning if that action does not otherwise prevent them from doing so (such as teleporting them to another location, or burning the snow that was burying them).

When the effect ends several feet of snow remain on the ground, but lose their supernatural coldness or supernatural connection to the negative energy plane. The strength DC to escape becomes DC 20, and no damage is caused aside from the normal damages of cold weather and being buried in snow.

The Icewright does not need to make a save to avoid being buried and takes no bludgeoning damage from the Blizzard when inside the effect. He may choose to be buried in he wishes.

Ice Spheres (Su): An Icewrightof level 13 or higher can craft up to five Spheres of Ice at a time. Each Sphere of Ice contains a single use of an Icewright's mastery over ice. Crafting such a sphere takes exactly as long as it would take to use the ability enclosed in the sphere.

Ice Sphere's can be directed to rotate around an Icewright, and smash into anyone making a melee attack (one sphere per attack) doing 1d6 damage per character level half cold and half bludgeoning. If a Sphere strikes an enemy in this way, it breaks, and does not trigger whatever effect is sealed within the Sphere.

Alternatively, an Icewright may give a sphere to anyone and they can throw it to trigger the ability enclosed.

Throwing a Sphere triggers the effect at that location for area effects. For Targeted effects, the target must be struck as a ranged touch attack. All effects are as if manifested by the Icewright who created the sphere at the time they created the sphere.

An Icewright can make a sphere that will craft a single ice object on being smashed, such an object will always have invested life force on creation. The Object will be created based on the blueprint the Icewright placed in the sphere, and it will take as many rounds to form as it would if an Icewright was creating it.

Each Sphere created must have life force invested in it to function.

Ice Implements (Su): An Icewright of level 14 or higher can create three specific objects that are in all other ways identical to other ice crafted objects. He may only have one of each object, and they must have life force invested in them to function with their additional powers.

Ice Lantern: This lantern can be filled with any light source. Light that shines from inside the lantern allows all creatures using that light to see, to see the area as if they were under the effect of a True Seeing spell. This means that all illusions can be seen for what they are, and all disguises, in addition, while the light does not shine bright light out to it's full range, characters can see in Darkness with True seeing, so even shadowy light provides no miss chance. In addition the light allows all creatures to see through magical darkness, so while it may not dispel Darkness or a Shadow Cloak, it allows creatures to see through the them and thus avoid miss chances.

Snow Glove: A Snow Glove can be worn by any creature, but for practical reasons, is not of much use to an Icewright. When worn, the Snow Glove can be used to touch any Ice Mirror made by the same Icewright who made the glove, and allow the wearer to know the status of all Ice Mirrors made by that Icewright. Then they may use the Mirrors to travel as an Icewright would, including the ability to bring others touching them along.

Permafrost Cloak: A Permafrost Cloak can be worn by any creature. Wearing it grants the wearer immunity to cold, ability damage, and ability drain, and if made of Black Ice, grants immunity to negative levels and energy drain. An enemy striking a Black Ice Cloak suffer a negative level as Black Ice Armor.

Additionally, a Permafrost Cloak grants 50 Temporary HP to it's wearer. If all the HP are lost, the Cloak falls apart and provides no further effects. However, any Icewright can repair a PermaFrost Cloak, restoring Temp HP equal to his character level with a swift action touch. This can even be used to repair a cloak that falls apart.

Fimbulwinter (Su): By Crafting a single Large Sized statute of a wolf Attached to his ice field, and performing a continuous ritual, an Icewright of level 15 or higher can create an area of malevolent Weather that creates a great storm in a large area. After 8 hours of concentration the Fimbulwinter effect extends in a cylinder 1 mile radius and 1000ft high. For each additional 8 hours you extend the Fimbulwinter effect extends an additional mile. If concentration ceases, then that session is ruined but the existing effects remain. An Icewright can choose to include a 100ft Radius Eye around the statute at the time of creation. This area is empty of all effects, however it can be filled in with a standard action while touching the statute at any time, however, it can never be reinstated.

The effects of Fimbulwinter is that throughout it's area it has the effects of the spell Sleet Storm. Additionally it creates roving packs of Winter Wolves that terrorize any creatures out in the storm. As a general rule a person walking straight through the storm will run into a pack of 2d4 Winter Wolves every hour.

Sphere Barrage (Sp): An Icewright of level 16 or higher may hurl up to five spheres orbiting around him at one or more targets within Medium Range as a full round action, making five attack rolls against touch AC. Each sphere does 1d6 per character level damage if it hits half cold half bludgeoning.

Big Snow (Ex): An Icewright of level 17 or higher gains a mastery of snow that allows him to make many of his cold powers bigger.

Big Ice Shards: The Icewright can fire a "Line" that is 1000ft long and 20ft wide instead of the normal line.

Big Ice Creation: The Icewright can stand in one spot for 8 hours and create a large Ice Field up to one mile radius, and then a single large Ice object or series of objects that cover that area and goes up to 2000ft above that area.

Big Icy Field: Icy Fields, of all types, can have a radius of 20ft.

Less Big Snow Pet: A Snow Pet can now be an Para Ice Elemental, or snow elemental with the same CR restrictions.

Big Mind Freeze: Mind Freeze can effect up to one creature per character level all within 30ft of each other.

Big Blizzard: Blizzard can be 1000ft Radius and 1000ft Height.

Big Fimbulwinter: Fimbulwinter can extend 5 miles for each 8 hours.

Twice as Many Objects (Ex): An Icewright of level 18 or higher can now invest his life force in 2(Character level+Wisdom Modifier) objects. He can also create up to 10 Ice Spheres.

Infinite Spheres (Su): An Icewright of level 20 or higher can create an infinite number of Ice Spheres. They no longer need life force invested to function.

Last edited by Kaelik on Sat Jul 29, 2017 5:36 pm; edited 25 times in total

Is this just a joke, or are you actually going to seriously develop this.

Why can't it be both?

Korgan0 wrote:

Will you be following this up with Fire Dude, Sword Guy, and Magic Man?

Fuck Sword guy and Magic Man. Those are not thematic enough._________________The perfect analogy for capitalism is a teenage kid, who refuses to listen to his dad when he gives him a tip on solving a problem. And keeps optimizing how to rake the yard using the handle instead of the head.

DSMatticus wrote:

Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.

Caster Level: If you happen to allow items that increase Caster level, you should probably let it increase all the effects of a Cold Dude's abilities.

More relevant and less problematic would be a mention of Caster Levels from Prestige Classes that add +1 Caster Level. Unless you intend for it to be CL = HD as the base, in which case you should mention that because, despite everyone house ruling that, the rules themselves say otherwise. And in that instance, the PrCl wouldn't add double Caster Levels, that'd be silly.

I was going to ask if a Cold Dude could make multiple items to combine together into an item with moving parts at sufficiently high levels, but then saw level three, so not really necessary.

Quote:

On a successful save, they are slowed.

For how long? I assume "one round, just like the Stunning", but technically you have to spell this shit out. I don't mean to be an obsessive-compulsive pain in the arse here, it just works out that way._________________

Count Arioch the 28th wrote:

There is NOTHING better than lesbians. Lesbians make everything better.

it can create a reverse sanctuary requiring a Will Save DC 10+1/2 character level+Wis mod to break effectively, a sanctuary on every other creature.

When I think of reverse santuary, I think of "people need to pass a will save to not attack you" and "if you don't attack, this effect breaks"... what do you mean?_________________

DSMatticus wrote:

Again, look at this fucking map you moron. Take your finger and trace each country's coast, then trace its claim line. Even you - and I say that as someone who could not think less of your intelligence - should be able to tell that one of these things is not like the other.

I want to be clear Koumei, I fixed both those problems before you posted, and you have been no help whatsoever.

Don't think you have been helpful at all.

Except that I have not clarified how +CL PrCs work, because fuck you and every other person who would ever PrC out of this class._________________The perfect analogy for capitalism is a teenage kid, who refuses to listen to his dad when he gives him a tip on solving a problem. And keeps optimizing how to rake the yard using the handle instead of the head.

DSMatticus wrote:

Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.

Again, look at this fucking map you moron. Take your finger and trace each country's coast, then trace its claim line. Even you - and I say that as someone who could not think less of your intelligence - should be able to tell that one of these things is not like the other.

Kaelik wrote:

I invented saying mean things about Tussock.

Last edited by ...You Lost Me on Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:39 am; edited 1 time in total

Yes. The purpose is to allow him to continue to use Icy Field when the game has taken to the air.

...You Lost Me wrote:

When I think of reverse santuary, I think of "people need to pass a will save to not attack you" and "if you don't attack, this effect breaks"... what do you mean?

I think that the target of the effect can't attack anyone at all until they make a save, like it says in the description, until that person attacks them.

It makes the targeted creature seem like everything else in the universe is subject to sanctuary._________________The perfect analogy for capitalism is a teenage kid, who refuses to listen to his dad when he gives him a tip on solving a problem. And keeps optimizing how to rake the yard using the handle instead of the head.

DSMatticus wrote:

Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.

If you are going to play a 13th level + character you just can't play this class.

It's like playing a 17th level Snowscaper, you are dumb as shit and are wasting your time._________________The perfect analogy for capitalism is a teenage kid, who refuses to listen to his dad when he gives him a tip on solving a problem. And keeps optimizing how to rake the yard using the handle instead of the head.

DSMatticus wrote:

Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.

Well it says that if the user attacks, they break the spell. So does this mean that if I have a demon fighting the PCs, it needs to make a will save to hit a given PC (and if it fails, it cannot attack that PC) until that PC makes an attack on anybody. Or does it require the PC attacking that specific demon?_________________

DSMatticus wrote:

Again, look at this fucking map you moron. Take your finger and trace each country's coast, then trace its claim line. Even you - and I say that as someone who could not think less of your intelligence - should be able to tell that one of these things is not like the other.

Well it says that if the user attacks, they break the spell. So does this mean that if I have a demon fighting the PCs, it needs to make a will save to hit a given PC (and if it fails, it cannot attack that PC) until that PC makes an attack on anybody. Or does it require the PC attacking that specific demon?

Obviously until he attacks the Demon. The effect is only on the Demon. You cast it on the Demon. Then the Demon is subject to a reverse sanctuary. Why on earth would what other people do to other people have an effect on the Demon?_________________The perfect analogy for capitalism is a teenage kid, who refuses to listen to his dad when he gives him a tip on solving a problem. And keeps optimizing how to rake the yard using the handle instead of the head.

DSMatticus wrote:

Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.

because it's "reverse sanctuary". You're telling me to act like the creature sees everybody around it has sanctuary cast on them, and I'm telling you what happens when you see someone with sanctuary on them. The spell completely breaks when you attack. It doesn't break for a specific person, it completely breaks._________________

DSMatticus wrote:

Again, look at this fucking map you moron. Take your finger and trace each country's coast, then trace its claim line. Even you - and I say that as someone who could not think less of your intelligence - should be able to tell that one of these things is not like the other.

because it's "reverse sanctuary". You're telling me to act like the creature sees everybody around it has sanctuary cast on them, and I'm telling you what happens when you see someone with sanctuary on them. The spell completely breaks when you attack. It doesn't break for a specific person, it completely breaks.

The reverse sanctuary effect:

A) is called Mind Chill.
B) Was cast on the Demon, and not Cast on the other PCs.
C) Has an explanation in the text.

I get it, you are too stupid to understand what happens when you reverse the sanctuary on a target, I need to avoid using the words "reverse sanctuary" or idiots are going to purposefully misunderstand for no reason.

I didn't tell you to act as if everyone else has sanctuary on them with respect to the Demon until after you intentionally misunderstood me when I told you to act like the Demon has a reverse sanctuary._________________The perfect analogy for capitalism is a teenage kid, who refuses to listen to his dad when he gives him a tip on solving a problem. And keeps optimizing how to rake the yard using the handle instead of the head.

DSMatticus wrote:

Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.

Last edited by Kaelik on Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:46 pm; edited 1 time in total

Rather than calling it "reverse sanctuary", can it just say something like 'must make a Will save to attack anyone' (or 'must make a Will save to muster the will to perform a standard action')?_________________

The law in its majestic equality forbids the rich as well as the poor from stealing bread, begging and sleeping under bridges.
-Anatole France

Rather than calling it "reverse sanctuary", can it just say something like 'must make a Will save to attack anyone' (or 'must make a Will save to muster the will to perform a standard action')?

No, because that would be different and way more powerful._________________The perfect analogy for capitalism is a teenage kid, who refuses to listen to his dad when he gives him a tip on solving a problem. And keeps optimizing how to rake the yard using the handle instead of the head.

DSMatticus wrote:

Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.

Well, yes. It's not hard to be more powerful than an ability so incomprehensible as to be unusable.

Quote:

Mind Chill (Sp): As a standard action a Cold Dude can chill the mind of a target within medium range. This can either have the effects of calm emotion, or it can create a reverse sanctuary requiring a Will Save DC 10+1/2 character level+Wis mod to break effectively, a sanctuary on every other creature.

Here's the text for sanctuary:

Quote:

Any opponent attempting to strike or otherwise directly attack the warded creature, even with a targeted spell, must attempt a Will save. If the save succeeds, the opponent can attack normally and is unaffected by that casting of the spell. If the save fails, the opponent canít follow through with the attack, that part of its action is lost, and it canít directly attack the warded creature for the duration of the spell. Those not attempting to attack the subject remain unaffected. This spell does not prevent the warded creature from being attacked or affected by area or effect spells. The subject cannot attack without breaking the spell but may use nonattack spells or otherwise act.

What I'm guessing you want is something like this:

Quote:

Any time that the target attempts to strike or otherwise directly attack another creature, even with a targeted spell, the target must attempt a Will save. If the save succeeds, the target can attack that creature normally, but still must make a Will save to attack a different creature. If the save fails, the target canít follow through with the attack, that part of its action is lost, and it canít directly attack that creature for the duration of the brain freeze. This ability does not prevent the target from using area or effect abilities. The target can, without making a Will save, attack any creature that attacks them first after the brain freeze begins.

But that's complete supposition, and in no way entailed by the phrase "reverse sanctuary"._________________

The law in its majestic equality forbids the rich as well as the poor from stealing bread, begging and sleeping under bridges.
-Anatole France

Thank you, Catharz. You make more sense than I ever could._________________

DSMatticus wrote:

Again, look at this fucking map you moron. Take your finger and trace each country's coast, then trace its claim line. Even you - and I say that as someone who could not think less of your intelligence - should be able to tell that one of these things is not like the other.

But that's complete supposition, and in no way entailed by the phrase "reverse sanctuary".

No, that's pretty much exactly what is entailed by reverse sanctuary._________________The perfect analogy for capitalism is a teenage kid, who refuses to listen to his dad when he gives him a tip on solving a problem. And keeps optimizing how to rake the yard using the handle instead of the head.

DSMatticus wrote:

Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.

Kaelik, stop it. It's obvious that people are confused by the phrase "reverse sanctuary." Since you wrote the goddamn class, it's your fault, and all you have to do to fix it is splice in the text that Catharz so kindly provided.

Kaelik, stop it. It's obvious that people are confused by the phrase "reverse sanctuary."

Yes, which is why I said seven fucking posts ago that it was obvious they were too stupid to understand reverse sanctuary. I said it needed to be changed then, so why the fuck are you telling me now that something i already said is true is true?_________________The perfect analogy for capitalism is a teenage kid, who refuses to listen to his dad when he gives him a tip on solving a problem. And keeps optimizing how to rake the yard using the handle instead of the head.

DSMatticus wrote:

Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.

Ummmm Kaelik, you've got a nice group of people saying "oh no that's not what reverse sanctuary means" and you're steadfastly refusing that. We are simply pointing out that if anyone is stupid it's you, just like people in the Den are apt to do, just like you are apt to do. I'm not sure why this is new material for you._________________

DSMatticus wrote:

Again, look at this fucking map you moron. Take your finger and trace each country's coast, then trace its claim line. Even you - and I say that as someone who could not think less of your intelligence - should be able to tell that one of these things is not like the other.

It has nothing to do with how stupid they are and everything to do with the simple fact that "reverse sanctuary" is an incredibly confusing phrase that could mean absolutely anything: it could mean that they have to pass a will save to not attack, it could mean what You Lost Me said upthread, or anything else, for that matter. It's a good ability, it's just that the phrase "reverse sanctuary" is one that could mean any number of things, as has been shown by the sheer number of people confused by it.

And in what was is that a relevant point to make after I agreed that it needs to be changed?_________________The perfect analogy for capitalism is a teenage kid, who refuses to listen to his dad when he gives him a tip on solving a problem. And keeps optimizing how to rake the yard using the handle instead of the head.

DSMatticus wrote:

Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.

Because you're saying that other people are too stupid to comprehend it. That's not the case at all, it's the case that the wording is too vague; the intelligence of the reader has nothing to do with it.