My question to those who've gone off Suboxone is this. Do you remember how bad your cravings were before you went on Suboxone? ie when you tried getting clean without it?

Now the real important question to me is ... When you eventually got off Suboxone, did those cravings return just as before with the same intensity? Or were they easier to manage? Did the tools you learnt while on Suboxone help in any way?

I guess my main concern is that ... once we go off Suboxone, do we find ourselves back at square 1?

For me, the cravings were worse after I went off Sub. Or maybe it only seemed worse because it was more recent than the cravings I had before I went on Sub.

The thing is, I don't know if Sub made it worse, or if what they say in NA is true, that your disease continues to progress even when you are in recovery. So if you relapse you don't pick up where you left off, but where you would have been if you never stopped using. There seems to be no scientific basis for this, but from what I have witnessed and what I have experienced in my own life, it sure as hell seems to be true.

One thing I didn't expect is that I actually craved Sub as much as I craved other drugs. You said this before, TJ, and I agree, that I often feel that Sub has somehow made my addiction WORSE. Of course, this is totally subjective and purely a biased opinion. There is really no way of knowing where I would be now if I had never gone on Sub. This thing is, when I used I had my ups and downs. I got high, I came down, I got high, I got sick, etc. Once I got on Subs I had opiates on my receptors 24/7 - for 2+ years! Somehow I feel THAT changed the game for me.

This is an interesting set of questions. I'm gonna break 'em down and try to answer them one by one.

You asked, "Do you remember how bad your cravings were before you went on Suboxone? ie when you tried getting clean without it?"

Yes, I remember my cravings before I got on Suboxone, but the thing I remember the most is the wd periods each time I got clean before Suboxone. The wd is really the #1 thing that drove me back to opiates, but cravings were certainly present.

You asked, "When you eventually got off Suboxone, did those cravings return just as before with the same intensity? Or were they easier to manage? Did the tools you learnt while on Suboxone help in any way?"

In my case, when I got off of Suboxone, I didn't really have any cravings until 9.5 months off and they weren't as bad as previous cravings. My wd period lasted a total of about 9.5 months and once I got to feeling better, BAM, the cravings came back. For me, while in wd, there was NO FUCKING WAY I was gonna use opiates again and put myself through that hell again. Again, for me, I think one of the keys to my success was high jumping and experiencing a brutal wd period. The memory of my wd is ALWAYS present. Haven't you ever wondered why my slips are so short in duration? The lions share of that answer is because I ain't using opiates long enough again to get myself in a position to have to endure a brutal wd again. I think this is why when people come on the forum and really want to jump off a high dose, I don't do too, too much to discourage them. So, my cravings did come back, but they weren't as bad. They didn't consume me quite like they did before.

You asked, "once off Suboxone, do we find ourselves back at square one?" I certainly wasn't back at square one when I got off Suboxone, but I was nowhere near as far into recovery as my dipshit little brain thought I was. Like I said, while in wd, I was fine, no cravings. But once the wd stopped, the cravings did come back. I still get cravings to this very day, but I'm getting better at managing them......thanks in good part to info and folks on this very forum.

Lastly, and this one is extremely hard to explain, I KNEW it was my time to quit drugs TJ. Don't ask me how or why. All I know is that it felt like God had finally given me permission to get clean and I somehow knew He promised me that I would be successful this time. And yes, I absolutely consider myself to be wildly successful, even with 5 slips.

_________________Be kind to yourself. Our character defects do NOT define who we are!

For me, the cravings were worse after I went off Sub. Or maybe it only seemed worse because it was more recent than the cravings I had before I went on Sub.

The thing is, I don't know if Sub made it worse, or if what they say in NA is true, that your disease continues to progress even when you are in recovery. So if you relapse you don't pick up where you left off, but where you would have been if you never stopped using. There seems to be no scientific basis for this, but from what I have witnessed and what I have experienced in my own life, it sure as hell seems to be true.

One thing I didn't expect is that I actually craved Sub as much as I craved other drugs. You said this before, TJ, and I agree, that I often feel that Sub has somehow made my addiction WORSE. Of course, this is totally subjective and purely a biased opinion. There is really no way of knowing where I would be now if I had never gone on Sub. This thing is, when I used I had my ups and downs. I got high, I came down, I got high, I got sick, etc. Once I got on Subs I had opiates on my receptors 24/7 - for 2+ years! Somehow I feel THAT changed the game for me.

***your disease continues to progress even when you are in recovery. So if you relapse you don't pick up where you left off, but where you would have been if you never stopped ***

although my "personal" experience with this, is limited, I have experienced it.... the thing that SCARES THE CRAP OUTTA ME,,
is I've seen it right before my VERY EYES,,,,
and the two people that come to mind, they passed away,,,,,,,, on a relapse/slip whatever you want to call it. one had 18 mos of really good 'solid' recovery,,,,,
the other had almost FIVE YEARS!!!
this is soooo scary to me,,,,
and I don't really have a "point''
Im just always trying to think of ways to make sure it doesn't happen to ME

***This thing is, when I used I had my ups and downs. I got high, I came down, I got high, I got sick, etc. Once I got on Subs I had opiates on my receptors 24/7 - for 2+ years!***

Until I just read this, I had NEVER THOUGHT ABOUT THIS,,,,
even with everything I've read here..........

very, very good point. . . . Scary,,, yes....

I know deep down, suboxone was for sure the right choice for me at the time.... I was headed one of the 'two' places us, 'textbook-type' addicts end up.......

I'm not afraid to admit, the thought of being totally off suboxone, is scary to me,,,, for ONE, becuase it's the ONLY thing that worked, out of sooooo many things tried.....
another, becuase of the 'progression' talked about above, remembering where I was when I FOUND suboxone,,, and the fact it's been almost two years ago,,, jeez ----- all I see is a cardboard box and a blanky

thanks for bringing this up----
It's for SURE a valid point

_________________anyone can give up,
its the easiest thing in the world to do, but to
hold it together, when everyone would understand if you fell apart
That's TRUE STRENGTH
http://almostoneyearclean.blogspot.com/

Also, when you get off suboxone are the cravings you get only for your drug of choice? Or do you crave suboxone too?

I would never want to expect something to happen, but for some reason once I stop suboxone I kind of want to have a small stash of suboxone as a back-up for chance something happened and I relapsed. But at the same time, knowing I have a stash of suboxone might increase the cravings because I know I have something for the withdrawals if I fucked up and used.

I'm only about 6weeks off sub so I don't have the long term experience as some of the folks on this site, but...

I remember my cravings before getting on sub to be much stronger. I actually still had pretty strong cravings the first year or so while on subs. In part because of the environment I was working in and the people I was around. I'd try to get high while I was on subs and eventually figured out it just wasn't the same and financially a complete waste of money!! Over time I was able to get away from most of the bad influences which helped a lot...

After stopping subs the cravings have returned, but not as strong as they were when I was using. A lot of that is probably because I've changed my life around...I think I'd be having some real trouble staying clean if I was still working in a restaurant, going to school and around people who thought it was cool/fun to get high. The changes I made while on subs are helping the recovery...

Here's something on Cravings/triggers I found really interesting............

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMiFNmemNyM[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43SfGbtzyp0[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyGTJK35SIE[/youtube]

I could see myself sooo much in the first "patient" talking in the last video....
it was so weird-- how it's so "controlled" at first, but then goes completely apeshit........

_________________anyone can give up,
its the easiest thing in the world to do, but to
hold it together, when everyone would understand if you fell apart
That's TRUE STRENGTH
http://almostoneyearclean.blogspot.com/

Lastly, and this one is extremely hard to explain, I KNEW it was my time to quit drugs TJ. Don't ask me how or why. All I know is that it felt like God had finally given me permission to get clean and I somehow knew He promised me that I would be successful this time.

Not sleeping too well so I've been sitting reading through old posts while the house sleeps. I read this from Romeo, and even though I am not a Goddy-dude I said YES!!

I KNOW this is the time. And McSpeshally after yesterday's incident where I was spoken to like an idiot-piece-of-shite by one of the staff at the drugs unit - when I phoned up looking for HELP! SO counterproductive...

I need to take control of this thing. I'm sick of this lingering misery, and being treated like a child.Quick taper then I'm jumping.

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