the worst part is that everybody wanted Cleganebowl, zombies and dragons. We got some really awesome stuff that was super cool to watch, but the real meat and potatoes of this show (It's creativity, wit, complex interweaving story, and thematic actions and consequences) has been seriously lacking. Without the backbone, it doesn't matter how much amazing shit they put into an episode.

To add to that the absolutely depressing nature of how stripped down these characters are now. I feel like I've watched everyone get assassinated this season without their actual death. Davos hasn't had more than a page of dialogue, and offers no wise advice or strategy.

Tyrion is in the same boat except now somehow he's become absolutely stupid, lacks any cleverness, he actually reports Varys for treason just to commit treason immediately after. Let's also not forget his brilliant idea to hide the women and children in the crypts when the Night King can raise the undead (I mean literally come on D&D. Peter Dinklage talked about this in a behind the scenes and was clearly disappointed)

Bran is just literally whatever now. I don't even feel like trying to explain that they are just doing nothing with him.

Jon Snow, who's parent's relationship and his birth, was a catalyst for so many events and built up with such importance to have him reduced to three different dialogue options "I love you","You're my queen" and "I dont want it". And if the spoilers are correct his ending destination is fucking stupid. How does he take the black it there's no wall or white walkers???

Jamie, well there's no words to describe him this one other than did a complete U-turn along with Dany on caring about the innocent in the Battle of Winterfell. Emilia Clarke should be devastated about how stupid they made Dany out to be by alienating herself even further and turning her into a psychopath within 2 episodes

Lastly Cersei. Lena Headey must've been absolutely thrilled to make so much money by drinking wine and looking out the Red Keep for a whole season. Plus the delight of being with Euron's actor! The most absurd addition to any show so late on with such little episodes left that I've seen!

Just an absolute utter waste of good talent with shit writing. Glad we got the show in the first place, but if D&D weren't gonna take these past two seasons seriously they should have hired a writing team, or just quit and let someone else who does care/can write well do it. A big fuck you from them to all the people who worked with them on this show and all the fans who even afforded them opportunities to go on and do Star Wars.

Yeah the show feels so hollow now. We’ve had more cool shit in the last two seasons than the rest combined & yet none of it has really had the impact that anything in the first 5 seasons had. It’s like eating a steak for dinner vs eating a cupcake for dinner. Both taste great in the moment, but one leaves you satiated & satisfied long after, & the other is fleeting enjoyment that goes away quickly.

I can only speak for myself but I really didn’t care for Clegane bowl. I didn’t want the hound to fight his brother. I wanted him to grow and become a better person but he never really did. He never overcame his fear of fire. He didn’t really care for anyone besides the Stark girls, which was fine but kind of weird. I didn’t need him to kill the Mountain but it always felt like there wasn’t much besides that that his character wanted to accomplish. Everything else in retrospect feels like he was kept around because he was a popular character, not because he had an actual story that needed to be told.

Exactly. & I don’t buy the lame bullshit excuse from D&D that the actors “wanted to move onto other projects.” This is THE biggest and best thing they’ll likely ever work on during their careers, why tf would they want to move on?? & judging by most of their interviews, they don’t want it to end. If they were so desperate to end it, D&d shoulda just handed the reigns over to somebody else who also understands the GoT universe and who is half as passionate as the fanbase to give it a proper final few seasons.

Oh, and speaking of television, don’t believe everything you read. Internet reports are notoriously unreliable. We have had five different GAME OF THRONES successor shows in development (I mislike the term “spinoffs”) at HBO, and three of them are still moving forward nicely. The one I am not supposed to call THE LONG NIGHT will be shooting later this year, and two other shows remain in the script stage, but are edging closer. What are they about? I cannot say. But maybe some of you should pick up a copy of FIRE & BLOOD and come up with your own theories.

What do you do with Cercei during that plot though? What are they doing for an entire year? Zombie battle after zombie battle would get old after a while honestly. Don't get me it could have been longer and there should have been more lost in it. But I don't know about doing an entire season of it.

Could have been a cheep season too. Every episode is following just a few characters through the cold, starvation, running and random whites. Just hire the writers from the first 3 seasons of walking dead, and a budget of 1 million max per episode.

season 8 shouldve dealt with the long night. wave after wave. slowly killing the white walkers generals. finally at the end they win, THEN season 9 is used for danys slow descend into madness. her troops are wiped out, Rhaegal badly injured, the north is split with jon and sansa. jon and danys relationship is expanded. he loves her but sees shes losing it. all leading up to the burning of kings landing and jon having to kill her

I was pretty bummed that we got absolutely zero shots of the dead rolling up to a town and destroying it, like when Olly's village was attacked. It would have been an awesome parallel to the awe of the dragons, but with pure terror. Everyone in the realm needed to be scared. It needed to snow in Dorne, just once.

I keep wondering why he wandered for years, why we had to watch him being dragged or carried hither and yon, why we had to lose Hodor and Meera had to lose Jojen, if it was all for one night in one battle, of sitting out in the garden being bait.

The way they wrote it. Jon has now lost 3 battles on his own bastards(Littlefinger), hardhome(Dany), Winterfell (Arya) and only survived because someone came to save him.*clough plot armout *cough.
The whole Rhaegar + Lyanna arc and story about bran becoming the raven and going into past and seeing the marriage, sams learnings in Citadel and all that was to only establish Jon was related to dany so he could deny her one kiss and she goes berserk.
WTF?

Why... Did they wrap this shit up? Isn't this a cash cow? Are they looking to fire all the expensive actors and rehire with a new cheaper crew and slightly altered story with more design around ad space?

And if they did have to make this the last season, then write it correctly anyways. If it only carries you to a certain point then stop at that point. Why feel compelled to destroy such a great series by the compulsion to end all character story arcs by season end? Imagine if Deadwood decided they needed to complete the story by decimating the characters. End the series properly then give me 5 more movies I have to pay for, but not this...

HBO should have “phased out” D&D after executive reviews of the storyboard. It must have been clear that they were tired. But what company allows this kind of unfettered autonomy from the individual contributors? Maybe they were worried about it hampering the producers’ creativity but it seems like bad business.

I'll give out my theory on this. I think part of it is they have a very barebones outline to go by for the ending. I think in season 5 they we're testing out how well received their wholecloth new plots would be received and when they went bad they decided to just stick more to what notes they had for TWoW (season 6) and the ending (7 and 8). With season 6 I think they had enough details to make a decent season, and I stand by season 6 as a good season. But for 7 and 8 maybe they knew they didn't have enough details to flesh it out and make it good. So they just made the cliffanotes version they got from George.

This is exactly how season 7 and 8 feel. Like it's Just the cliffnotes of checkpoints they are filming with nothing in-between. It's the reason why everyone seems to teleport everywhere. Agreed season 6 was a really good season.

Wanna see the last hearth get fucked by the dead? Sorry we're too lazy to write another fighting episode. Want to see Jon pet the direwolf he's had for almost a decade? Too bad too lazy. Want to see Tyrion and Varys do smart stuff? Not from the X-Men origins writers, too lazy and too dumb.

Dude, the walking dead cleared about 800 miles of land in one night to make it from Last Hearth to Winterfell. They could have spent 2 seasons fighting them with the size and scope of the North. That would have made for epic story telling too. Setting up in locations we having seen yet in the north. Utilizing the Dothraki in a snow environment would have been a sight to see. They could have made it, so the whites walkers were always pushing ahead, and for the forces to have to keep regrouping, back closer to winterfell.

I think you are right. Have them lose Winterfell and fall all the way back to the twins. They then use the set up of that castle to defeat them. It would have felt bigger to have them lose a bit more. Also it would lead to the Starks taking the Twins as their home for a little while.

I think they should have went in the direction of first killing off cersei/kings landing take over and putting dany on the throne but the dead army comes down and fucking ravages winterfell. Everyone who lives retreats back toward the twins and dany and her armies try to bottle neck the dead there but they fail and the dead press on further... you could start putting dany into her mad character as she fails over and over to stop the dead from pressing further as she finally gets on the throne but everyone is losing trust in her because she loses kings landing and is forced to retreat back to dragon stone.

Idk I just see a lot more story line that way rather than just wrapping the dead up in one episode and then her losing her shit in one episode and wrecking kings landing.

the long night as a season would have been straight up sick. as much as I enjoyed the one night stand(it was easily my favorite of the season but that ain't saying much) it was a painful anticlimax that basically amounted to fuck all, the northern forces just trounced kings landing with no resistance and then Danny snaps in an afternoon and destroys the people she swore to protect. its sucks proper balls.

What really angers me is that the whole show they hype up the long night as the scariest thing to ever happen. Jon Snow spends seasons trying to convince people to help. And then the long night ends up being one episode. Really lazy writing. You can tell they just want it to end. What a big "fuck you" to all of the serious fans.

It was in a Forbes article yesterday. Im looking for the link. Found it:

And then there’s George RR Martin, who has always thought the show was cutting too much from the books. A long time ago he said the 10 episode seasons should be more like 13, and more recently he’s said that the show could continue well, well beyond eight seasons. Here’s him at the Emmys last year:
“I don't know," Martin said. "Ask David [Benioff] and Dan [Weiss] when they come through. We could have gone to 11, 12, 13 seasons, but I guess they wanted a life.”

I just don't get that whole thing with D&D wanting to move on to other things (like one of many Star Wars additions...), or "have a life".

Game of Thrones will inarguably be their greatest work, no matter what, by far. It's obviously one of the top 5 best, most popular shows ever. Moving on to Star Wars is by no means a step up for them... What are they thinking?

Somebody needs to print this comment from GRRM, corner dumb and dumber in some premiere line where they can't coward out, and ask them what the fuck happened. I mean, we already know, but will they have the courage to be honest to us about it?

CHRIST I would've been ecstatic with 10 and I think things could've been wrapped up nicely in that time. 12 would be incredible but would absolutely need the books to be finished to flesh things out that fully. 14 you'd need to go back and flesh more of the earlier in the show, make every book 2 seasons.

Great but you know how hard it is to keep the actors/actresses on board for that many seasons? I think that was the major factor over everything. 10 years of their lives, I’m sure some of them would like to move on.

Well then they should have hurried on and not keep jacking off the Drone plot, Sam and gilly love affair, Dany's essos vacation and a lot of other un important plots.
They hyped up long night and "Winter is coming" bullshit lasted for 4 hours.
Its all sunny in Kings Landing. Last when jamie left for north it was snowing so winter is already over.

Well... I can't really judge them for that, but come on. This is a career defining series. It seems kind of silly to want to "move on" from one of the most successful TV series ever made. Like... what's next? A sitcom, romcom, or superhero movie? Back to stage plays?

They're moving on to one of the most well known and top grossing franchises in movie history. Its no excuse, but it makes sense why they wanted to wrap it up quickly in time to ruin another beloved world.

Apparently, Star Wars is next. I feel like that's one of the only things that anyone would move on from Game of Thrones for. That said, I think it's an absolute shit move on D&D's part, considering HBO, GRRM, and millions of fans want more.

Recasting is a thing that causes a ton of whinging, but it's not a show killer (usually). If that's impossible, then working with big actors' schedules would have been a challenge but hardly a unique one to GoT.

I've seen that 3 minute compilation of the cast giving their opinions on season 8. They all seemed pretty disappointed but passionate about their profession, that I think they would have been okay to do more seasons if necessary to properly wrap it up.

Actors are not some kind of epherial beings that work solely on a whim of their desire, having a big role in tv show this big is a job security and fat check for 10 years, having smaller role would allow people to do some side stuff if they wanted. And actually that wouldn't be 10 years, just extra 2 if we assume 10 seasons instead of 8.

All of the avengers will be eventually replaced and that won't be because "they acted for so long they got bored and wanted to move on". D&D decided to drop the show because they got bored and Disney offered a fatter checkue.

I'm convinced the offer from Disney for D&D to make a star wars project was also meant to sabotage HBO for the arrival of Disney+ streaming service. D&D actually had some great writing early in and suddenly they wanted to wrap it up quick and jump ship with so many purposeful plot holes.

And for some reason D&D think every episode need some crazy war sequence or death or bit of action. Idk why they think that’s the foundation of the episodes now they need to go back to the roots and to what the viewers liked the best, the dialogue. They’ve thrown story progression and plot complexity in the trash. BRING BACK DIALOGUE AND DONT RUSH THE SEASONS

I just don't get that whole thing with D&D wanting to move on to other things (like one of many Star Wars additions...), or "have a life" as GRRM put it.

Game of Thrones will inarguably be their greatest work, no matter what, by far. It's obviously one of the top 5 best, most popular shows ever. Moving on to Star Wars is by no means a step up for them... What are they thinking? Is this NOT what they would want to be working on? The biggest project of art they could be working on - do they not enjoy it...?

This is a great comment. I, too, believe that Star Wars is a lateral move. Game of Thrones is an excellent property with rich lore. Even without the road map provided by GRRM, they had a story with a plethora of possibilities at their fingertips. How could writing the next Star Wars trilogy provide any more creative opportunities than GoT?

Was it just the money? I'm sure they could have named their price with HBO. Surely it couldn't be the characters and story! The GoT characters are arguably more interesting and dynamic than most if not all of the characters in Star Wars.

Star Wars is strictly a good v. evil story. No inbetween. The palette of nuanced grays GoT offers would be far more attractive, in my opinion, to story tellers and creatives. The supple dialogue between Varys and Baelish alone is worth the opportunity costs of declining Star Wars.

With the past few seasons, especially these past few episodes, it's pretty clear they aren't that great at writing nuanced gray morality. The last episode is a very clear Dany bad and Jon good dichotomy. Star Wars will be much easier for them to write, since character motivations are typically more straight forward.

Someone pointed out the fact that D&D have had to write more w/o source material (obviously), but if they were to make the show truly longer, that might be incredibly exhausting/overwhelming (writing seasons-worth of material GRRM hasn't yet written on).

It's a timeline thing, you guys. Disney waits for no man. Making GOT is likely long, exhausting work. For one, they had to wait until winter to even film, and then spring to do all the releasing. Picture boardrooms with Disney execs. "Sure, Mr. Iger Mousington sir. We can absolutely have this wrapped up by X date so we can work on Star Wars for you. NO problem." No thought of the craft, the art, the actors, the immense opportunity this was for them and what they owed to the show. I keep coming back to arrogance, arrogance and selfishness.

Yeah but that doesnt mean they have to like it. Sure, it made them famous, and whatever, but probably from their perspective they were just tired. And i guess they refused because:

1) the plot was too complex and even if they were given the end of the books, they just couldnt see how to ended without having to expand it too much. I mean working 9 years on the same project sure can be tiresome, specially if you are a writer.

2) They didnt have more ideas to put on the show, maybe they got too cocky, IDK

They could have just pass the show to a new writer if they were bored, maybe on season 7 or 6. But at the same time the actors have other jobs, maybe they wanted to try new things. It doesnt matter if GoT is their master piece, at some point humans get bored of doing the same thing and want to try new stuff or challenges.

I just don't get that whole thing with D&D wanting to move on to other things

Based on the story about how they got permission from Martin to film the show and them being such huge fans that they knew R+L=J back then it amazes me that such ardent fans able to literally write their own fan fiction and film it, "got bored" with something supposedly so personal to them.

I've been wondering that as well. Something just doesn't adds up and I feel like there's more to this story. If I were in their shoes, I wouldn't have mattered to be working on GoT for as long as they have. It doesn't make sense for them to tank their work just to go do Star Wars. Was it a money thing? Do they think Star Wars is better? It really boggles my mind.

With the timeline for Star Wars in 2022, I think their options were squeeze it down to a single season and 6 episodes and finish it in a rush themselves, or do one season with them and give another season to other writers.

I think they chose themselves over giving the series the time it needed to flesh all this out. HBO wanted more. Martin wanted more. NK should have been all of season 8 and Dany going nuts and Cersei should have been 9 imo. Imagine how cool a whole season in the Long Night could be if done right...

They were essentially given a blank cheque from HBO. HBO would likely have shoveled 20-30 million per episode on them for 10 seasons of 10 episodes. Money wasn't the problem, the problem is D&D being a couple of industry frat boy hacks who wanted to move onto the next thing for them (star wars).

You can tell from interviews that D&D checked out of the series long ago. It seems their main motivation was to be involved in bringing something like the red wedding to TV, and lost interest soon after that.

Damn this is so true. I don’t even understand why they like each other. Jon likes strong women, but he and Ygritte had mutual respect for each other. She didn’t force him into submission (aside from the obvious ‘being her prisoner’ thing). Dany likes men who take what they want, not dudes who ask meekly and then give her all the power. It’s a weird coupling at best.

Not to mention right after she did one of the most selfless things she does in the entire series (helping defend against the nk dany is the only one who really could have said fuck it I’m out and fly to essos). It’s like saving someone from a sickness one day just so you can stab them the next, there was hardly any buildup (once again a victim of shortened seasons and poor writing to make the plot fit that constrained time).

I think the book, if it ever comes out, will do a thousand times better of a job showing her descent. I mean, it couldn't be much worse than this. But hearing grass talking and seeing a woman no one else could, right now in the books looks like sickness and mysticism, but it would be a pretty good twist as the first showings of madness.

...Now I kind of wish the show didn't spoil it for me. Ah well. Maybe I'll have forgotten enough of it to be fresh in 10 years...

Yeah forget she just lost her best friend, 2nd dragon, biggest father figure and protector, the lifelong belief of having a "birth right" to the throne and being betrayed by varys Tyrion and Jon and focus on only the last scene you saw her in when she gets dumped

I feel more invested in whatever ambiguous relationship Brienne and Jaime had than Jon & Dany. Why? Because we had seasons to marinate in Brienne and Jaime. We haven’t seen Jon and Dany connect on the same level at all. The closest we get is when he’s waking up on her ship and he “bends the knee”.

Could have dramatically improved it simply with seven and eight being 10 episodes each. So many plot points are fine on paper, but ruined by being so rushed. Jaime going north, knighting Breinne, fucking her, then changing his mind and leaving for Cersei is probably fine over 20 episodes, but doing it in three is a fucking ripoff.

I think the worst part is that there will be no way to get the same actors or expect them to reprise their roles if another adaptation was eventually made because too much time will have passed and new actors would have trouble replacing characters like Arya ,Jon Snow, Tyrion, who are all iconic.