ORIGINAL: Falcon 64
I know I`m right, and my first words was:
Static balance is not present. That is why you lost your Tomcat, dubd...
It was..feel sorry for you. But hey, I said you get a new one, how come..?

But a ''outsider'' will come with his thoughts, as soon as he can.. (baby..)

Falcon, I appreciate your optimism, but I am convinced that FEJ will do nothing for me or anyone else.

If so, they failed on pride, it`s simple maths, easy to adjust on. Anyone could adapt a such simple thing..
And if failed, it would be a loss in the game we do...really.
They make awsome things, listen and learn is a MUST to give what expected and adapt an adjustment once it`s obvious.
But sometimes in life we think we meet the end, and thinking twice, we can grow on it, adapt and get it better. Adjusts for the better.
To make people pleased and happy, fight abit... That`s why I chimed in here, not to affend anyone of you, so sorry if I made enemies, not my intention.

I understand, but this FEJ and like companies have multiple threads citing the issues with the planes they make with no REAL fix or rep to help.

on the other note, companies like BVM work one on one with customers to make sure they have the best possible time with the product, and you can call him up to ask questions and since he builds his product in the states(might be wrong by me) you can speak to the guys that build them....not so with FEJ.

All and all the best thing about them is the ability to turn out so many jets in a short time,which can be a bad thing, bvm has not released a new jet in awhile, instead he picked up jet legend and skymaster( he would not sell subpar products).

I dont like to chime in, but just seeing this happen makes me sick( both the crash and the after resulting thread, but this is not the first china made jet crash due to poor QC/RD)

Come on....all this post everyday it just piss off FEJ more and likely they just quick and shut there door. New factory will open up soon.
What happen than?

It take two to tangle.

Here how I look all these.

1. Buyer should be doing more research before made purchase.

2. Proffesional builder should know at least what is safe and what is not.

3. Operator should at least knowing if this plane air worthy before fly it.

4. Manufacture must tested beyond what it can handle and put safety limitation of the model can do and let the user end know. With instruction how it put together is very important. This isn"t an ARF'S and it need proffesional builder to built this plane to be safe operation and flow. This plane is not for average Joe.

5. Any problem with the plane should be updated with the fix to user end aware of or user end know about it should do the fix to prevent total loss. (There is many issue with pipes coming from china that fail very often. I don't call anyone out on the pipes fail because almost all factory had pipes issue). User should aware of these problem. Don't wait to fail and goes after manufacture when there is solutiion to that.)

The conclusion to what I said is.

If buyers doing homework before many any pruchase. The seller can't sell their unsafe products.
If you already bought it. Fix the problem because no one can fix it for you.
You don't feel safe. Don't fly it if you're responsible modelers.

Now, can ANYONE tell all of us HOW the AMA rule was given a life, and what was their background?
What was their perspectives, and what and how did they come to this conclusion on a MAC of 25% +- 3-2, all over..?
This is essential...for all of us.

Anyone spending their hard dimes will agree to that. But this does not concern just to FEJ.

We all want what we get to be good, not to jump into a hole and be buried at the same vrrrrap happens.

None wants to be a test-pilot and buy all we can for it, we MUST CLAIM our jest to have a CERTIFICATE, which lines up what have been used, how it`s been used, and everything in between, EVERYTHING how things was done. Make a list and claim it as a unit for all of us, select people to what the list would be, and stay behind it, all of us.
This is our need to know basis, we are AT at need to know basics in fact.

Those who can`t give it, skip the thought of an order, and let them adjust to stay alive, their choice.
Simple & effective.. But unite, we are their living as a matter of fact.

I`m sure FEJ is one of the first to step ahead and say, we are all good, and many others will also do that.
And once they do, following their (any company`s) advice, we have certain facts, a thing in our hand to rely in.
This is how this model is made, this is how is performs with ... this is how you get when you buy this model. But of course, go beyond that, and you are alone again. But stress- tests in the air, ducumentet as a document, I think this is the way to go.
But all in all, be safe, and this way to have your back sticked to facts and what to both expect and get.

Now, can ANYONE tell all of us HOW the AMA rule was given a life, and what was their background?
What was their perspectives, and what and how did they come to this conclusion on a MAC of 25% +- 3-2, all over..?
This is essential...for all of us.

Let forget all about AE and what ever degree anyone had on this.

Put things more easy to understand.
Here is two sample.
There is two pole soft mounted the ground.

One pole had the sign mounted equal center.
The other pole had the same sign but was not mounted center. More like 20-23% offset to one side.

Whenhigh wind blow.

Which one of the pole likely still standing?
So full flying stabs is had the same princple.

Come on....all this post everyday it just piss off FEJ more and likely they just quick and shut there door. New factory will open up soon.
What happen than?

It take two to tangle.

Here how I look all these.

1. Buyer should be doing more research before made purchase.

2. Proffesional builder should know at least what is safe and what is not.

3. Operator should at least knowing if this plane air worthy before fly it.

4. Manufacture must tested beyond what it can handle and put safety limitation of the model can do and let the user end know. With instruction how it put together is very important. This isn"t an ARF'S and it need proffesional builder to built this plane to be safe operation and flow. This plane is not for average Joe.

5. Any problem with the plane should be updated with the fix to user end aware of or user end know about it should do the fix to prevent total loss. (There is many issue with pipes coming from china that fail very often. I don't call anyone out on the pipes fail because almost all factory had pipes issue). User should aware of these problem. Don't wait to fail and goes after manufacture when there is solutiion to that.)

The conclusion to what I said is.

If buyers doing homework before many any pruchase. The seller can't sell their unsafe products.
If you already bought it. Fix the problem because no one can fix it for you.
You don't feel safe. Don't fly it if you're responsible modelers.

Now, can ANYONE tell all of us HOW the AMA rule was given a life, and what was their background?
What was their perspectives, and what and how did they come to this conclusion on a MAC of 25% +- 3-2, all over..?
This is essential...for all of us.

Let forget all about AE and what ever degree anyone had on this.

Put things more easy to understand.
Here is two sample.
There is two pole soft mounted the ground.

One pole had the sign mounted equal center.
The other pole had the same sign but was not mounted center. More like 20-23% offset to one side.

Whenhigh wind blow.

Which one of the pole likely still standing?
So full flying stabs is had the same princple.

I`m not sure you have understood what i meant, and still trying your lines in comparison into what I said.
But I have spent some of my income to you in a project, a bifurcated duct for an F-18 + +, wich I gave the plane as a gift for a friend.
But some people know what they do, some don`t (I had mine, we all have), but some others are serving us things who don`t KNOW what it is (factories), they should give a evidence to us what it is..!

As for ANY ARF YOU, Yes, YOU are the final assembler and must make sure it is air worthy! NOT the manufacture!! YOU, must go threw it, make changes, add glue hear or there, tight 'in or loosen, or whatever to make it air worthy!! YOU are laying ALL the blame on the manufacture!! HOW do they or we know you are a builder or just some block head off the street putting together a jet OF ANY KIND??? I have seen SO many Jet pilots that DO NOT deserve a waiver!! I think we ALL have.... So you need to step back and look at everything that has been put into the airframe and if the finisher(YOU) did everything that needed or should have been done!! NOW, this is my opinion and only mine as what I have read in this form of place the blame....

Quote:

ORIGINAL: HORNET FLYER

I understand, but this FEJ and like companies have multiple threads citing the issues with the planes they make with no REAL fix or rep to help.

on the other note, companies like BVM work one on one with customers to make sure they have the best possible time with the product, and you can call him up to ask questions and since he builds his product in the states(might be wrong by me) you can speak to the guys that build them....not so with FEJ.

All and all the best thing about them is the ability to turn out so many jets in a short time,which can be a bad thing, bvm has not released a new jet in awhile, instead he picked up jet legend and skymaster( he would not sell subpar products).

I dont like to chime in, but just seeing this happen makes me sick( both the crash and the after resulting thread, but this is not the first china made jet crash due to poor QC/RD)

As for ANY ARF YOU, Yes, YOU are the final assembler and must make sure it is air worthy! NOT the manufacture!! YOU, must go threw it, make changes, add glue hear or there, tight 'in or loosen, or whatever to make it air worthy!! YOU are laying ALL the blame on the manufacture!! HOW do they or we know you are a builder or just some block head off the street putting together a jet OF ANY KIND??? I have seen SO many Jet pilots that DO NOT deserve a waiver!! I think we ALL have.... So you need to step back and look at everything that has been put into the airframe and if the finisher(YOU) did everything that needed or should have been done!! NOW, this is my opinion and only mine as what I have read in this form of place the blame....

Should the average modeler X ray all of the structures to see if bolts are running through honeycomb? Or cut holes all through the model to look at inaccessible joints?

Are you a Fly Eagle dealer? What do you tell your customers about these kits? Should they x ray them?

As an ARF owners, we, the customer/builder/assembler do not have the means to make structural checks. These planes are already built, painted and it is not possible to modify major structural areas like wing or elevator cores, etc.

Even with X-ray machines, how do you suggest to modify an elevator in it's inside core? There's only one way - cut and open it. Does it make sense?[&:]

ARF manufacturers should provide reliable frames or else do not sell in ARF form. Frames should be load and flight tested to limits, not put to sale when there's only a project/design.

X-ray?? Use your HEAD!! So do you buy a ARF, do NOTHING to it but assemble it and go fly??? Or do you go over it?? SAME THING! I think you are just spinning your gears and not really thinking, if at all. I fly FEJ, Have them for sale, but haven't sold any.... I am to small of a shop. BUT, YOU need to go over it like all other planes! It's up to YOU! ALL manufacturer's and dealers have a disclaimer..... So it leaves it to YOU to make it air worthy.

Now, can ANYONE tell all of us HOW the AMA rule was given a life, and what was their background?
What was their perspectives, and what and how did they come to this conclusion on a MAC of 25% +- 3-2, all over..?
This is essential...for all of us.

Its not 25% + - 2-3%, its 25% MINUS 2 to 3%. If you so worried about how the AMA in the USA came up wit it, why dont you call them and ask, instead of asking everyone in here over and over who obviously do not know (since no one has answered you).

I seriously doubt the just came up with some numbers from thin air and have a good reason for their reasoning.

Just like most if not ALL planes that are ARF's. There is no way to check this, UNLES YOU peal the covering off... Correct? SO, YOU do what YOU can to make it better, BUT to only what you can SEE.... CORRECT? It's just like ALL ARF's YOU buy.... It is up to YOU to finish it and make it air worthy!! This is just like Ultra Lights.... "YOU" are the Final assembler to make it air worthy. MAYBE, AMA should redo the books on ALL Turbine Aircraft??? So NOW ALL turbine Aircraft must be inspected before EVERY Event, Just Like the ones over 75lbs. It MUST be documented before EVERY event you wish to fly at! Now something like this might reduce crashes, except for those who go around the AMA. I am SORRY for your crash, BUT, again "YOU" are responsible for the finishing of the build of every plane, jet whatever YOU build to fly! This should settle everything that needs to be said.... Have fun, go fly!

Quote:

ORIGINAL: jetnuno

How can you "go over it" inside a full closed composite structure like a flying stab or a wing and check if it's well built or flying worthy??

Can you enlighten me, please? How have you used your HEAD in your FEJ jet to "go over it", check it out and conclude it's air worthy?

The model should be airworthy when assembled per the manufactors instructions nothing else should be required. It like saying when
you buy a new car you need totear it down and inspect it before driving.

The model should be airworthy when assembled per the manufactors instructions nothing else should be required. It like saying when
you buy a new car you need to tear it down and inspect it before driving.

BTW I intended to reply to gjhinshaw not mr matt

So for you Ira and Mr. Hinshaw, what happens when there are no instructions? What happens when there is no baseline? Meaning, the manufacturer has not even specified that this is the MINIMUM requirements for basic flight? You are going to blame that on the assembler for not even knowing this when they were NOT the people who designed the machine???? TOTAL BS!!!!! That is a seller trying to cover his arse saying that its on the assembler. So much BS is flying around this thread is RIDICULOUS!!!!

Come on....all this post everyday it just piss off FEJ more and likely they just quick and shut there door. New factory will open up soon.
What happen than?

It take two to tangle.

Here how I look all these.

1. Buyer should be doing more research before made purchase.

2. Proffesional builder should know at least what is safe and what is not.

3. Operator should at least knowing if this plane air worthy before fly it.

4. Manufacture must tested beyond what it can handle and put safety limitation of the model can do and let the user end know. With instruction how it put together is very important. This isn''t an ARF'S and it need proffesional builder to built this plane to be safe operation and flow. This plane is not for average Joe.

5. Any problem with the plane should be updated with the fix to user end aware of or user end know about it should do the fix to prevent total loss. (There is many issue with pipes coming from china that fail very often. I don't call anyone out on the pipes fail because almost all factory had pipes issue). User should aware of these problem. Don't wait to fail and goes after manufacture when there is solutiion to that.)

The conclusion to what I said is.

If buyers doing homework before many any pruchase. The seller can't sell their unsafe products.
If you already bought it. Fix the problem because no one can fix it for you.
You don't feel safe. Don't fly it if you're responsible modelers.

Pointing finger each other is shame on both buyers and manufactures.

My only word left to this is.

Responisble.

Quote:

This isn"t an ARF'S and it need proffesional builder to built this plane to be safe operation and flow. This plane is not for average Joe.

1. Byer is safe because of a signed certificate, including EVERYTHING! expained.

2.Professional builders DO know what is safe and what is not. Pros are pro, there is a difference, if doubt, they are not at all professional builders.

3. "Operator should at least knowing if this plane air worthy before fly it".
Operators or builder does as explained in the certificate, and has nothing to worry about. Make a choice before purchase.

4. "This isn''t an ARF'S and it need proffesional builder to built this plane to be safe operation and flow. This plane is not for average Joe.". There you go! In my and many others opinion, you never can get a understanding in a jet-model, handeled over to just fly. No ARF`s need a professional builder if the terms for a jet has a document on how, when and if.. I won`t mention the lack of understanding for the pilot, but build is often to understand more.. I know I teas the builders here, but the best for the pilot is to "know the plane".

5. A total loss with a certificate on the actual model would be on behalf of the manufacturer, as long as the owner/pilot can document it was within the limits given from the manufacturer. Updates would be a rare case since the limits well proven would be documented.
A total loss of the plane would be the RF link to the plane, not the plane itself. A guaranteed certificate from the factory would would be a "insurance" for us to how these things goes together. Video of EVERY flight is a documentation, as we have seen here.

"If buyers doing homework before many any pruchase. The seller can't sell their unsafe products."
I say, if the purchaser have done his homework, he does NOT BUY...

"If you already bought it. Fix the problem because no one can fix it for you". You didn`t byt it, because it had no documents or certificate, if it had so, you WOULD buy it because there was nothing to fix..

"You don't feel safe. Don't fly it if you're responsible modelers". No! you don`t, but if everything is set up accordingly to the certificate, it`s one of two things. One, the model is too powerful and expensive, and two, the model is not in your range of fingers, you got it and you have to trust a builder, AND you are not ready for it. Do not ever fly if you have any thoughts about it.

In my 13 years and 455 hours in XC-hanggliding, we NEVER touched at hangglider without a certificate. Because of our own security an our family members. Any jet-model is a lethal threat to anyone you don`t know, if any other security don`t exist.
And in flying these things, good as gold, the RF link has the comment. IF everything else was good.
As long as we can knock on hard wood with a certificate on the actual model, we have both fought and won.
Jets is NOT for everyone, and building them is not either. At least not making one...

Once and a while, I ask myself, in fact many times. And I know I will be quoted on it.. and laughed at.
Wouldn`t my world of modelling be at least the good and same instead of trying to convince others, keeping it to myself?

I guess the answer has to be, for me it would yes, but it would be better for many others too.