Precisely. Point is, if the death penalty advocates were right the US would have a much lower rate of murder than the EU does, in reality arguing over *how* much higher is just semantics, the point is the evidence is the same, the death penalty does not act as a suitable deterrent to criminals.

Not all advocates argue that. Please don't use a blanket statement like that. I am all for the death penalty, not for overall crime reduction, but to keep the worst of the worst of the street and not be forced to pay for their comfy living till they are 100.

Not all advocates argue that. Please don't use a blanket statement like that. I am all for the death penalty, not for overall crime reduction, but to keep the worst of the worst of the street and not be forced to pay for their comfy living till they are 100.

Given that the death penalty costs more than lifetime incarceration due to the redundancy the system needs to avoid miscarriages of justice, your argument fails just as hard. Killing criminals costs you more than imprisoning them.

Given that the death penalty costs more than lifetime incarceration due to the redundancy the system needs to avoid miscarriages of justice, your argument fails just as hard. Killing criminals costs you more than imprisoning them.

Given that the death penalty costs more than lifetime incarceration due to the redundancy the system needs to avoid miscarriages of justice, your argument fails just as hard. Killing criminals costs you more than imprisoning them.

It fails hard up until it doesn't. The current system is broken and I never claimed it was perfect either. It is horrifically mismanaged right now. That in no way effects my decision to support the death penalty. Should it be fixed to be cheaper, yes. Should it go away, no. So my argument doesn't fail hard because my argument never implied that the current system is perfect. Don't put words in my mouth and then argue them.

A father was yesterday sentenced to two life terms in prison for causing the death of his 15-week-old daughter while he was orally raping her.

Steven Deuman Jr, 26, of Traverse City, Michigan, was convicted of first-degree murder and aggravated sexual assault after jurors - who were subjected to disturbing testimony and photos - took less than an hour to convict him in September.

I'm not even religious, but I'm starting to think nowadays that we need to take some hints from the old testament and sharia law. We just had a "Hatfield and Mccoy" festival in Pikeville about 30 minutes from here to try and bring in some tourism, and some guy in his early 20's was arrested for stealing over $10,000 worth of stuff out of parked cars. I guarantee that if he was afraid of having one of his hands cut off, he would have thought twice about taking something that didn't belong to him. We are way too pacifist nowadays, and the criminals have noticed. The fear of retribution is ebbing away because they know that even if they commit something horrible enough to receive the death penalty, they'll probably be able to get out of it by appealing it over and over and over for the 10 years they will spend sitting on death row and soaking up tax dollars while they wait for their execution. If we started chopping off body parts and hanging people for doing some of the stupid ###### they're doing nowadays, I guarantee the genetic defects of this world would straighten up quick fast and in a hurry.

The redundancy is there for a good reason, to prevent miscarriages of justice. It's funny that for some the desire for revenge is so strong that they would actually be happy to do away with due process.

I'm fully in support of bypassing state appeals and going straight to the Federal courts; Federal Appeals and SCOTUS. The case will end up there anyhow, so you're reducing the cost and expediting the execution if it passes muster.