The Fall of Third Parties Incoming? Crystal ball says YES

First off, lets get this out the way, I am no company fan of any of the big three, I do my gaming primarily on a PC, but something has been bothering me the last several days. After the recent comments by the Metro 2033 developer 4A and reading comments about others plans, I have to ask, do these people live in a vacuum? The industry as a whole is losing developers by the boatloads (as evidenced by the recently "shrunken" Eurocom) and last generation, we saw more developer studios close or shrink than ANY other generation before it save for the huge crash in the 80's, we have budgets getting higher and higher, to a point where if your game doesn't sell a million copies its considered a failure (the racing games Split second/ Blur), and other studios being gobbled up by huge publishers, only to be dismantled (see Infinity Ward) and we still have developers willing to overlook nearly half the gaming population?

Last generation Nintendo sold almost 100 million consoles, and in the face of rising development costs, closing studios and insane expectations it was ignored, much to many developer's peril. And we still have fans seeming to WILLINGLY call for a major hardware manufacturer to fail and not support it in the coming generation? It seems like the industry wants to fail.

Even IF you are a technology whore, your main and first goal should be to make money, and keep your people working, by ignoring nearly half of the console owners you've already set yourself up for a huge bridge to overcome. And in the face of all evidence pointing to even higher bars to make profits this coming generation we already have developers seemingly ready to bet it all on the same horse than spread their risks.

And what makes me think this you ask? 4A, makers of Metro 2033 last light basically burning the only bridge they could had possibly had to even release their game, since their publisher is basically going out of business. It defies logic to say publicly something like that when the same hardware manufacturer in question has shown a wanting of hardcore IPs and has even went to publish them and revive dead products. They even showed your game in their E3 sizzle reel! and even worse are some of the fans (example, folks on NEOGAF forums) who seem to actively want these studios to fail and root for Nintendo to fail and 3rd parties to "abandon" them for some kind of irrational hate for Nintendo. I don't even LIKE most of their games, but I realize they are a needed factor in the industry, and can offer salvation for many of studios who seem to ignore my precious PC.

So I guess my rant is over, and this coming generation when there's only Activision, EA, Ubisoft left in the west and Namco, Capcom, SE and Sega (if they even survive) with everyone else makign IOS games or outright out of business, it'll be the industries own fault and gamers own hell they created.

First off, lets get this out the way, I am no company fan of any of the big three, I do my gaming primarily on a PC, but something has been bothering me the last several days. After the recent comments by the Metro 2033 developer 4A and reading comments about others plans, I have to ask, do these people live in a vacuum? The industry as a whole is losing developers by the boatloads (as evidenced by the recently "shrunken" Eurocom) and last generation, we saw more developer studios close or shrink than ANY other generation before it save for the huge crash in the 80's, we have budgets getting higher and higher, to a point where if your game doesn't sell a million copies its considered a failure (the racing games Split second/ Blur), and other studios being gobbled up by huge publishers, only to be dismantled (see Infinity Ward) and we still have developers willing to overlook nearly half the gaming population?

Last generation Nintendo sold almost 100 million consoles, and in the face of rising development costs, closing studios and insane expectations it was ignored, much to many developer's peril. And we still have fans seeming to WILLINGLY call for a major hardware manufacturer to fail and not support it in the coming generation? It seems like the industry wants to fail.

Even IF you are a technology whore, your main and first goal should be to make money, and keep your people working, by ignoring nearly half of the console owners you've already set yourself up for a huge bridge to overcome. And in the face of all evidence pointing to even higher bars to make profits this coming generation we already have developers seemingly ready to bet it all on the same horse than spread their risks.

And what makes me think this you ask? 4A, makers of Metro 2033 last light basically burning the only bridge they could had possibly had to even release their game, since their publisher is basically going out of business. It defies logic to say publicly something like that when the same hardware manufacturer in question has shown a wanting of hardcore IPs and has even went to publish them and revive dead products. They even showed your game in their E3 sizzle reel! and even worse are some of the fans (example, folks on NEOGAF forums) who seem to actively want these studios to fail and root for Nintendo to fail and 3rd parties to "abandon" them for some kind of irrational hate for Nintendo. I don't even LIKE most of their games, but I realize they are a needed factor in the industry, and can offer salvation for many of studios who seem to ignore my precious PC.

So I guess my rant is over, and this coming generation when there's only Activision, EA, Ubisoft left in the west and Namco, Capcom, SE and Sega (if they even survive) with everyone else makign IOS games or outright out of business, it'll be the industries own fault and gamers own hell they created.

First off, lets get this out the way, I am no company fan of any of the big three, I do my gaming primarily on a PC, but something has been bothering me the last several days. After the recent comments by the Metro 2033 developer 4A and reading comments about others plans, I have to ask, do these people live in a vacuum? The industry as a whole is losing developers by the boatloads (as evidenced by the recently "shrunken" Eurocom) and last generation, we saw more developer studios close or shrink than ANY other generation before it save for the huge crash in the 80's, we have budgets getting higher and higher, to a point where if your game doesn't sell a million copies its considered a failure (the racing games Split second/ Blur), and other studios being gobbled up by huge publishers, only to be dismantled (see Infinity Ward) and we still have developers willing to overlook nearly half the gaming population?

Last generation Nintendo sold almost 100 million consoles, and in the face of rising development costs, closing studios and insane expectations it was ignored, much to many developer's peril. And we still have fans seeming to WILLINGLY call for a major hardware manufacturer to fail and not support it in the coming generation? It seems like the industry wants to fail.

Even IF you are a technology whore, your main and first goal should be to make money, and keep your people working, by ignoring nearly half of the console owners you've already set yourself up for a huge bridge to overcome. And in the face of all evidence pointing to even higher bars to make profits this coming generation we already have developers seemingly ready to bet it all on the same horse than spread their risks.

And what makes me think this you ask? 4A, makers of Metro 2033 last light basically burning the only bridge they could had possibly had to even release their game, since their publisher is basically going out of business. It defies logic to say publicly something like that when the same hardware manufacturer in question has shown a wanting of hardcore IPs and has even went to publish them and revive dead products. They even showed your game in their E3 sizzle reel! and even worse are some of the fans (example, folks on NEOGAF forums) who seem to actively want these studios to fail and root for Nintendo to fail and 3rd parties to "abandon" them for some kind of irrational hate for Nintendo. I don't even LIKE most of their games, but I realize they are a needed factor in the industry, and can offer salvation for many of studios who seem to ignore my precious PC.

So I guess my rant is over, and this coming generation when there's only Activision, EA, Ubisoft left in the west and Namco, Capcom, SE and Sega (if they even survive) with everyone else makign IOS games or outright out of business, it'll be the industries own fault and gamers own hell they created.

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Post is full of fail. PS3 failure is imminent because Metro 2033 came out in 2010 and skipped the PS3. You guys are all so pathetic.

What's pathetic is ignoring every studio closing that's happened in the last generation with a "lol fail" emote. Ask Eurocom or Bizzare Creations if they think its full of fail. oh wait, you cant. And you won't be able to ask THQ that question soon either. You're exactly what's killing the industry.

What's pathetic is ignoring every studio closing that's happened in the last generation with a "lol fail" emote. Ask Eurocom or Bizzare Creations if they think its full of fail. oh wait, you cant. And you won't be able to ask THQ that question soon either. You're exactly what's killing the industry.

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I think we can come to agree on aspects. This industry can't increase costs by 500% and then increase revenue by 0% or in the case of companies have it tank even below what they previously were able to make on wrestling games and rugrats ip. This I agree with. The thing is Nintendos console which is what this forum focuses on is addressing these issues. This is a social console. It lets you comment, videochat, search the web for help and advice, and some of these components will also show in unique ways in individual games. It also isn't pushing an agenda where you must increase your costs to make a new game for this machine. It supports development of titles like Scribblenauts, Rayman, and Trine 2. It allows you to choose your method of distribution. Why would this work when we have facebook or mobile game shops? The reason is the same for why consoles worked before. They worked because they were on your tv and the hardware wasn't constantly changing every 6 months like a PC. The market still exists for this.

My complaint is that Metro isn't a way to measure the longevity of this industry. They weren't some huge dev. THQ also wasn't some big infallible entity before this year. They've been existing on making horrid nickelodean ip and wrestling titles for quite some time. They tried to branch out quite a few times but ultimately their focus has never been on making quality titles and that's ultimately what is hurting them.

What's pathetic is ignoring every studio closing that's happened in the last generation with a "lol fail" emote. Ask Eurocom or Bizzare Creations if they think its full of fail. oh wait, you cant. And you won't be able to ask THQ that question soon either. You're exactly what's killing the industry.

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I think we can come to agree on aspects. This industry can't increase costs by 500% and then increase revenue by 0% or in the case of companies have it tank even below what they previously were able to make on wrestling games and rugrats ip. This I agree with. The thing is Nintendos console which is what this forum focuses on is addressing these issues. This is a social console. It lets you comment, videochat, search the web for help and advice, and some of these components will also show in unique ways in individual games. It also isn't pushing an agenda where you must increase your costs to make a new game for this machine. It supports development of titles like Scribblenauts, Rayman, and Trine 2. It allows you to choose your method of distribution. Why would this work when we have facebook or mobile game shops? The reason is the same for why consoles worked before. They worked because they were on your tv and the hardware wasn't constantly changing every 6 months like a PC. The market still exists for this.

My complaint is that Metro isn't a way to measure the longevity of this industry. They weren't some huge dev. THQ also wasn't some big infallible entity before this year. They've been existing on making horrid nickelodean ip and wrestling titles for quite some time. They tried to branch out quite a few times but ultimately their focus has never been on making quality titles and that's ultimately what is hurting them.

I think there was a disconnect there. I actually think it's a BAD thing for developers to neglect Nintendo consoles and WANT them to put their games on the console. I was just venting basically about what I saw, a developer that seems to live in some kind of weird vacuum like their game is a high profile game. Nintendo WANTS hardcore games, you have a shooter which on PC/xbox is just another above average shooter but could be a good, premiere piece on Nintendo's console and you bite the hand that feeds you. I think Nintendo's approach for console hardware is good, and should help keep costs under control if developers actually develope for it.

What's pathetic is ignoring every studio closing that's happened in the last generation with a "lol fail" emote. Ask Eurocom or Bizzare Creations if they think its full of fail. oh wait, you cant. And you won't be able to ask THQ that question soon either. You're exactly what's killing the industry.

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I think we can come to agree on aspects. This industry can't increase costs by 500% and then increase revenue by 0% or in the case of companies have it tank even below what they previously were able to make on wrestling games and rugrats ip. This I agree with. The thing is Nintendos console which is what this forum focuses on is addressing these issues. This is a social console. It lets you comment, videochat, search the web for help and advice, and some of these components will also show in unique ways in individual games. It also isn't pushing an agenda where you must increase your costs to make a new game for this machine. It supports development of titles like Scribblenauts, Rayman, and Trine 2. It allows you to choose your method of distribution. Why would this work when we have facebook or mobile game shops? The reason is the same for why consoles worked before. They worked because they were on your tv and the hardware wasn't constantly changing every 6 months like a PC. The market still exists for this.

My complaint is that Metro isn't a way to measure the longevity of this industry. They weren't some huge dev. THQ also wasn't some big infallible entity before this year. They've been existing on making horrid nickelodean ip and wrestling titles for quite some time. They tried to branch out quite a few times but ultimately their focus has never been on making quality titles and that's ultimately what is hurting them.

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but then you agree with him

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It might be subtle but we don't fully agree. I don't think the people who matter will ignore nintendo or the general business logic. I think things will get better and it will be because those people who whine the most just whine the loudest but are not the significant market. 4A isn't significant. NeoGaf forum members aren't either.

Third parties don't care about tech and they never have. They care about sales. Unfortunately, a lot of then were between a rock and a hard place this gen. Third party software doesn't sell on Nintendo platforms, and development costs are too damn high on the Sony/MS platforms, so a lot of then were screwed either way. I don't know what the way forward will be, but I hope it's the indie model of small games with big ideas and low development costs, distributed digitally, possibly in episodic format. I'd really love to see the WiiU embrace this model full-force and make the WiiU the go-to console for indie gaming.

I think episodic content is indeed the only way medium developers will survive. I also think though its important to build a base for your games much like developers have done with the DS and 3DS in Japan. I think Activision and Ubisoft are both doing that with WiiU and I think it'll pay off for them in the long run.

I think the truth is it would be nice to see budgets come way way down.

You look at movies and a very similar thing happened. Mainstream movies used to be character-driven dramas, then Jaws and Star Wars happened, everyone started doing expensive high-concept blockbusters, and a ton of studios went out of business. The "indie" side of the industry took over the character-driven dramas that used to be the studio's bread and butter, and the studios now make their money on a handful of expensive high-concept blockbusters a year they produce and the indie movies they distribute.

I see no reason games can't follow a similar trajectory. The success of a few expensive AAA games this gen led every developer to think they had to make expensive AAA games of their own to be competitive. An alternative is to get small, and get back to the creative, weird, gameplay-driven style of games that used to the be the staple of the major developers but now really don't exist in the AAA industry. I think games like Portal, Journey, Braid, Mutant Mudds, 3D Dot Game Heroes, Fez, and Fluidity point to the future of an alternative to AAA for smaller developers. All of these games carry the spirit of the 8-through-64 bit games that made us fall in love with gaming in the first place far better than the modern AAA industry, and I'm excited to see what is coming in the future.

What's pathetic is ignoring every studio closing that's happened in the last generation with a "lol fail" emote. Ask Eurocom or Bizzare Creations if they think its full of fail. oh wait, you cant. And you won't be able to ask THQ that question soon either. You're exactly what's killing the industry.

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Eurocom got fucked over because 007 Legends is awful, is a huge failure, & it was made to celebrate the 50th anniversary of James Bond just to add icing to the disaster.

Third parties don't care about tech and they never have. They care about sales. Unfortunately, a lot of then were between a rock and a hard place this gen. Third party software doesn't sell on Nintendo platforms, and development costs are too damn high on the Sony/MS platforms, so a lot of then were screwed either way. I don't know what the way forward will be, but I hope it's the indie model of small games with big ideas and low development costs, distributed digitally, possibly in episodic format. I'd really love to see the WiiU embrace this model full-force and make the WiiU the go-to console for indie gaming.

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Just Dance sold fine on Wii. I know most of you don't ever see the correlation but the reality is that if good titles had been brought to Wii with some noticable difference on the Wii then they would have certainly captured a market in that initial period.

This game launched on November 07 2006. The 360 which is the highest selling version had been out for a year when this game launched. This excellent performance then resulted in them making Modern Warfare immediately for the Wii? Nope, they assumed these numbers were a fluke and we didn't see MW1 for a full 2 years after the 360 and PS3 received this title and multiple sequels. Good games sell. On nintendo hardware, not on nintendo hardware none of this matters. You can't make the same game release it on a console with a smaller userbase with the same capabilities and then expect that everyone will just get it for the console that fewer people have. The gamecube had 6 million fewer western users than the Xbox. Compare japanese game sales data on Xbox1 which did better Nintendo or MS? The data that some of you use is skewed. Nintendo can sell 3rd party titles. If they don't sell units though then they don't look more attractive than consoles that do sell those units however.

Hence why I keep saying "support the core 3rd party titles on Wii U." For fuck sakes, its not hard to go out and buy a copy of ZombiU, Mass Effect 3, Darksiders II, etc. The consumers have the power to get the Wii U up to the level of the PS3 & Xbox 360 by supporting 3rd party content over some shit like SiNG Party.

Third parties don't care about tech and they never have. They care about sales. Unfortunately, a lot of then were between a rock and a hard place this gen. Third party software doesn't sell on Nintendo platforms, and development costs are too damn high on the Sony/MS platforms, so a lot of then were screwed either way. I don't know what the way forward will be, but I hope it's the indie model of small games with big ideas and low development costs, distributed digitally, possibly in episodic format. I'd really love to see the WiiU embrace this model full-force and make the WiiU the go-to console for indie gaming.

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Just Dance sold fine on Wii. I know most of you don't ever see the correlation but the reality is that if good titles had been brought to Wii with some noticable difference on the Wii then they would have certainly captured a market in that initial period.

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NIntendo's third party woes predated the Wii by a decade and there's always some ridiculous excuse but the fact is that third parties have struggled on every Nintendo platform ever since Sony (and, later, MS) entered into the market. Time and again, either third parties have had their games die on the vine on Nintendo hardware, or they've skipped it all together for greener pastures elsewhere. Nintendo's business model is inherently not very friendly to third parties and they got away with it in the NES/SNES eras because Sega used essentially the same business model, but once Sony came along with an alternative it makes a lot more sense for third parties to develop for platforms where they don't have to compete with Mario and Zelda.

Third parties don't care about tech and they never have. They care about sales. Unfortunately, a lot of then were between a rock and a hard place this gen. Third party software doesn't sell on Nintendo platforms, and development costs are too damn high on the Sony/MS platforms, so a lot of then were screwed either way. I don't know what the way forward will be, but I hope it's the indie model of small games with big ideas and low development costs, distributed digitally, possibly in episodic format. I'd really love to see the WiiU embrace this model full-force and make the WiiU the go-to console for indie gaming.

Third parties don't care about tech and they never have. They care about sales. Unfortunately, a lot of then were between a rock and a hard place this gen. Third party software doesn't sell on Nintendo platforms, and development costs are too damn high on the Sony/MS platforms, so a lot of then were screwed either way. I don't know what the way forward will be, but I hope it's the indie model of small games with big ideas and low development costs, distributed digitally, possibly in episodic format. I'd really love to see the WiiU embrace this model full-force and make the WiiU the go-to console for indie gaming.

or maybe they buy games that aren't just the same thing I played last week. You forgot Parappa, Guitar Hero, Pilotwings, and Simcity though. Sometimes you might not like a game that sells but if a dance game is attracting audiences and consistently doing so does that make it a bad thing? These aren't automatically bad games. People want them to do something more and sometimes they don't deliver but acting like every game that sold and then kept selling is a bad thing is plainly retarded. You don't have to play them. You're not the only gamer that exists though. Stop being so obtuse.

or maybe they buy games that aren't just the same thing I played last week. You forgot Parappa, Guitar Hero, Pilotwings, and Simcity though. Sometimes you might not like a game that sells but if a dance game is attracting audiences and consistently doing so does that make it a bad thing? These aren't automatically bad games. People want them to do something more and sometimes they don't deliver but acting like every game that sold and then kept selling is a bad thing is plainly retarded. You don't have to play them. You're not the only gamer that exists though. Stop being so obtuse.

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I like Parappa & SimCity (save for Societies which is a dumbed down travesty). Though I like Un Jammer Lammy more than Parappa & I like the Caesar series more than SimCity.

I have a feeling SEGA might be retired after this eight generation and Capcom. They will be missed.

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Capcom is going nowhere. They are still a very successful company. Sega will probably be a name soon like Atari. Someone will always make Sega games and own the sonic franchise but Sega proper just hasn't been doing enough lately. I'd hope they could make it back but it seems like their management lacks direction.

All those companies will need to control costs but throwing out names at random and saying they are near failure is not a good tactic.

or maybe they buy games that aren't just the same thing I played last week. You forgot Parappa, Guitar Hero, Pilotwings, and Simcity though. Sometimes you might not like a game that sells but if a dance game is attracting audiences and consistently doing so does that make it a bad thing? These aren't automatically bad games. People want them to do something more and sometimes they don't deliver but acting like every game that sold and then kept selling is a bad thing is plainly retarded. You don't have to play them. You're not the only gamer that exists though. Stop being so obtuse.

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I like Parappa & SimCity (save for Societies which is a dumbed down travesty). Though I like Un Jammer Lammy more than Parappa & I like the Caesar series more than SimCity.

businesses close every day. People scream doom every day. It never happens. It is how the business world works. The more popular an industry gets, the more business that pop up, the more businesses that fail which if looked at with narrow and ignorant scope makes the industry look as though it is failing when in fact it is growing.

Third parties don't care about tech and they never have. They care about sales. Unfortunately, a lot of then were between a rock and a hard place this gen. Third party software doesn't sell on Nintendo platforms, and development costs are too damn high on the Sony/MS platforms, so a lot of then were screwed either way. I don't know what the way forward will be, but I hope it's the indie model of small games with big ideas and low development costs, distributed digitally, possibly in episodic format. I'd really love to see the WiiU embrace this model full-force and make the WiiU the go-to console for indie gaming.

Hence why I keep saying "support the core 3rd party titles on Wii U." For fuck sakes, its not hard to go out and buy a copy of ZombiU, Mass Effect 3, Darksiders II, etc. The consumers have the power to get the Wii U up to the level of the PS3 & Xbox 360 by supporting 3rd party content over some shit like SiNG Party.

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I always hated this philosophy. Why should I support Mass Effect 3 on WiiU when it's 1/3rd of a game for the same price as the whole franchise on other consoles? Why should I support a $60 WiiU Darksiders II when a $30 PS3/360 version of the game exists? Why should I support a "mediocre" ZombiU game when there are a lot better alternatives to it including some of the games you mentioned? Why do you hate Sing Party sales when that's the game that Nintendo chose to spend most of its marketing funds instead of any of the other "AAA" titles? If you want to blame anyone for not buying those games, blame the publishers first and Nintendo second. The customer is almost never to blame. These companies including Nintendo rip what they sow.

Personally, I'll buy ZombiU when it is at a price that reflects its value to me, which is $30 or less. I am buying Mass Effect Trilogy on PS3 instead, unless the same Trilogy with all bells and whistles is also available on WiiU for the SAME PRICE as the PS3 version. I would have bought Darksiders II for $30 this week if it weren't for all the DLC content which will be most likely be bundled in a "complete" version and be cheaper than buying all of the pieces individually (see also THQ's other game, Saints Row The Third Complete Edition which was just recently released).

Once again, if you want to blame anyone for the poor 3rd party support on Nintendo consoles, blame 3rd party publishers first and Nintendo, the platform holder, second.

Third parties don't care about tech and they never have. They care about sales. Unfortunately, a lot of then were between a rock and a hard place this gen. Third party software doesn't sell on Nintendo platforms, and development costs are too damn high on the Sony/MS platforms, so a lot of then were screwed either way. I don't know what the way forward will be, but I hope it's the indie model of small games with big ideas and low development costs, distributed digitally, possibly in episodic format. I'd really love to see the WiiU embrace this model full-force and make the WiiU the go-to console for indie gaming.

Click to expand...

Just Dance sold fine on Wii. I know most of you don't ever see the correlation but the reality is that if good titles had been brought to Wii with some noticable difference on the Wii then they would have certainly captured a market in that initial period.

Click to expand...

NIntendo's third party woes predated the Wii by a decade and there's always some ridiculous excuse but the fact is that third parties have struggled on every Nintendo platform ever since Sony (and, later, MS) entered into the market. Time and again, either third parties have had their games die on the vine on Nintendo hardware, or they've skipped it all together for greener pastures elsewhere. Nintendo's business model is inherently not very friendly to third parties and they got away with it in the NES/SNES eras because Sega used essentially the same business model, but once Sony came along with an alternative it makes a lot more sense for third parties to develop for platforms where they don't have to compete with Mario and Zelda.

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Yes, plenty of ridiculous excuses and one ultimate reality. The N64 underperformed. The gamecube underperformed. If either of them were selling 1/2 as well as the psx or even just as well as the Xbox1 in western markets then things would have been different and were actually different when they did start selling. RE4 sold well. Soul Calibur sold well. Both of those titles were outsold by their PS2 ports but then again the PS2 also had 4 times the GC userbase at the time and 6x at the end.

Hence why I keep saying "support the core 3rd party titles on Wii U." For fuck sakes, its not hard to go out and buy a copy of ZombiU, Mass Effect 3, Darksiders II, etc. The consumers have the power to get the Wii U up to the level of the PS3 & Xbox 360 by supporting 3rd party content over some shit like SiNG Party.

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I always hated this philosophy. Why should I support Mass Effect 3 on WiiU when it's 1/3rd of a game for the same price as the whole franchise on other consoles? Why should I support a $60 WiiU Darksiders II when a $30 PS3/360 version of the game exists? Why should I support a "mediocre" ZombiU game when there are a lot better alternatives to it including some of the games you mentioned? Why do you hate Sing Party sales when that's the game that Nintendo is spending most of its marketing funds instead of any of the others? If you want to blame anyone for not buying those games, blame the publishers first and Nintendo second. The customer is almost never to blame. These companies including Nintendo rip what they sow.

Personally, I'll buy ZombiU when it is at a price that reflects its value to me, which is $30 or less. I am buying Mass Effect Trilogy on PS3 instead, unless the same Trilogy with all bells and whistles is also available on WiiU for the SAME PRICE as the PS3 version. I would have bought Darksiders II for $30 this week if it weren't for all the DLC content which will without a doubt be bundled at a later "complete" version and probably sell less than buying all of the pieces individually (see also THQ's other game, Saints Row The Third Complete Edition which was just recently released).

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I hate it but for a different reason. You seem a discerning gamer and that's fine but most gamers will buy these games. They didn't sell before on nintendo platforms because they either did not exist or if they did then the console was literally a carbon copy of the other console everyone else already had. Nintendo needed to find a way to make a simple port different. Motion controls could do that but ultimately they also required that devs actually alter their process and development. I do hope some of them actually try this when the WiiU is market leader this generation. The gamepad is a similar thing and will always seem better when fully utilized however even just making this game playable offscreen instantly provides a benefit to owning the WiiU version. It requires very little rethinking to put your port on the WiiU. Anything you add to the title is just icing on the cake.

businesses close every day. People scream doom every day. It never happens. It is how the business world works. The more popular an industry gets, the more business that pop up, the more businesses that fail which if looked at with narrow and ignorant scope makes the industry look as though it is failing when in fact it is growing.

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Except that the net movement this gen has been for studios to close, not open. Studios have closed in the last five years at a rate that we've never seen in the post-crash industry. AAA games regularly cost $30-40M to produce and that number threatens to double next gen. It's going to be hard even for the big studios like EA and Activision to remain profitable in the AAA industry at that point. A relatively small number of mega-successful games (most of them in established, annualized or semi-annualized franchises btw), have hidden the fact that the industry is currently deeply unhealthy. As I've said, I think there's an obvious way out, with digital distribution filling the current void between AAA and bargain bin, but right now it's a lousy time to be in the console market if you're not Nintendo, MS, Activision, or EA.

businesses close every day. People scream doom every day. It never happens. It is how the business world works. The more popular an industry gets, the more business that pop up, the more businesses that fail which if looked at with narrow and ignorant scope makes the industry look as though it is failing when in fact it is growing.

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Except that the net movement this gen has been for studios to close, not open. Studios have closed in the last five years at a rate that we've never seen in the post-crash industry. AAA games regularly cost $30-40M to produce and that number threatens to double next gen. It's going to be hard even for the big studios like EA and Activision to remain profitable in the AAA industry at that point. A relatively small number of mega-successful games (most of them in established, annualized or semi-annualized franchises btw), have hidden the fact that the industry is currently deeply unhealthy. As I've said, I think there's an obvious way out, with digital distribution filling the current void between AAA and bargain bin, but right now it's a lousy time to be in the console market if you're not Nintendo, MS, Activision, or EA.

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The last 5 years have also been in the middle of the biggest recession in American History. This is a trend in every market currently that will reverse with the economy. Video games are not doomed. Such an over exaggeration.

businesses close every day. People scream doom every day. It never happens. It is how the business world works. The more popular an industry gets, the more business that pop up, the more businesses that fail which if looked at with narrow and ignorant scope makes the industry look as though it is failing when in fact it is growing.

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Except that the net movement this gen has been for studios to close, not open. Studios have closed in the last five years at a rate that we've never seen in the post-crash industry. AAA games regularly cost $30-40M to produce and that number threatens to double next gen. It's going to be hard even for the big studios like EA and Activision to remain profitable in the AAA industry at that point. A relatively small number of mega-successful games (most of them in established, annualized or semi-annualized franchises btw), have hidden the fact that the industry is currently deeply unhealthy. As I've said, I think there's an obvious way out, with digital distribution filling the current void between AAA and bargain bin, but right now it's a lousy time to be in the console market if you're not Nintendo, MS, Activision, or EA.

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The last 5 years have also been in the middle of the biggest recession in American History. This is a trend in every market currently that will reverse with the economy. Video games are not doomed. Such an over exaggeration.

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Video games probably aren't doomed, but the AAA industry as we currently know it probably is. It's just not sustainable, development costs cannot continue to double every five years like they have been. Even for the big companies profit margins are pretty thin, the two options are lower development costs or subscriptions and micro transactions.

Hence why I keep saying "support the core 3rd party titles on Wii U." For fuck sakes, its not hard to go out and buy a copy of ZombiU, Mass Effect 3, Darksiders II, etc. The consumers have the power to get the Wii U up to the level of the PS3 & Xbox 360 by supporting 3rd party content over some shit like SiNG Party.

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I always hated this philosophy. Why should I support Mass Effect 3 on WiiU when it's 1/3rd of a game for the same price as the whole franchise on other consoles? Why should I support a $60 WiiU Darksiders II when a $30 PS3/360 version of the game exists? Why should I support a "mediocre" ZombiU game when there are a lot better alternatives to it including some of the games you mentioned? Why do you hate Sing Party sales when that's the game that Nintendo chose to spend most of its marketing funds instead of any of the other "AAA" titles? If you want to blame anyone for not buying those games, blame the publishers first and Nintendo second. The customer is almost never to blame. These companies including Nintendo rip what they sow.

Personally, I'll buy ZombiU when it is at a price that reflects its value to me, which is $30 or less. I am buying Mass Effect Trilogy on PS3 instead, unless the same Trilogy with all bells and whistles is also available on WiiU for the SAME PRICE as the PS3 version. I would have bought Darksiders II for $30 this week if it weren't for all the DLC content which will be most likely be bundled in a "complete" version and be cheaper than buying all of the pieces individually (see also THQ's other game, Saints Row The Third Complete Edition which was just recently released).

Once again, if you want to blame anyone for the poor 3rd party support on Nintendo consoles, blame 3rd party publishers first and Nintendo, the platform holder, second.

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SiNG Party is being panned by reviewers right now (remember that Sony is spending marketing money on Black Ops Declassified) so its likely to flop, Darksiders II on Wii U is the best version (it also includes the DLC), Mass Effect 3 on Wii U is the best console version (+ it includes map packs, From Ashes, & the Extended Cut as main portions unlike the Trilogy which has no From Ashes), & ZombiU is NOT mediocre. And fuck Greg Miller for that shitty review, other people like Jim Sterling who are real survival horror fans are giving it great reviews. That and M rated games on Nintendo consoles should be supported, do you want Nintendo to keep up with the "kiddy reputation"!? No, of course you don't. The Wii U deserves the same 3rd party content as the PS3 & Xbox 360 and supporting the current crop is the only way to do that.

To those who settle disputes with unnecessary entitlement: cut it the fuck out. People who don't support what's there don't deserve anything else, why should someone bake delicious cake for another person when said other person is going to say its shit because it doesn't have strawberries? The baker obviously isn't going to do it anymore.

I have a feeling SEGA might be retired after this eight generation and Capcom. They will be missed.

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Capcom is going nowhere. They are still a very successful company. Sega will probably be a name soon like Atari. Someone will always make Sega games and own the sonic franchise but Sega proper just hasn't been doing enough lately. I'd hope they could make it back but it seems like their management lacks direction.

All those companies will need to control costs but throwing out names at random and saying they are near failure is not a good tactic.

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I guess i dont know alot about a company being successful or near failure, excuse me while i go back to study my logic.

This is coming from a guy who bases his belief on a ball made of crystal...
But then again, we all have our opinions.

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HAHAHA!! True, but i'm just using what developers and publishers seem to use to make decisions. But seriously... I think it's important to support the hardcore games on the system just to keep them coming. I think most japanese developers will support the Wii U, and Activision will, as will Ubi soft. the others who knows. I just wish they would see the light this time. You can't just ignore millions of potential customers because you don't feel like or don't think its worth it. You'll be the one who loses out while those who adapted will survive.

Hence why I keep saying "support the core 3rd party titles on Wii U." For fuck sakes, its not hard to go out and buy a copy of ZombiU, Mass Effect 3, Darksiders II, etc. The consumers have the power to get the Wii U up to the level of the PS3 & Xbox 360 by supporting 3rd party content over some shit like SiNG Party.

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I always hated this philosophy. Why should I support Mass Effect 3 on WiiU when it's 1/3rd of a game for the same price as the whole franchise on other consoles? Why should I support a $60 WiiU Darksiders II when a $30 PS3/360 version of the game exists? Why should I support a "mediocre" ZombiU game when there are a lot better alternatives to it including some of the games you mentioned? Why do you hate Sing Party sales when that's the game that Nintendo chose to spend most of its marketing funds instead of any of the other "AAA" titles? If you want to blame anyone for not buying those games, blame the publishers first and Nintendo second. The customer is almost never to blame. These companies including Nintendo rip what they sow.

Personally, I'll buy ZombiU when it is at a price that reflects its value to me, which is $30 or less. I am buying Mass Effect Trilogy on PS3 instead, unless the same Trilogy with all bells and whistles is also available on WiiU for the SAME PRICE as the PS3 version. I would have bought Darksiders II for $30 this week if it weren't for all the DLC content which will be most likely be bundled in a "complete" version and be cheaper than buying all of the pieces individually (see also THQ's other game, Saints Row The Third Complete Edition which was just recently released).

Once again, if you want to blame anyone for the poor 3rd party support on Nintendo consoles, blame 3rd party publishers first and Nintendo, the platform holder, second.

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SiNG Party is being panned by reviewers right now (remember that Sony is spending marketing money on Black Ops Declassified) so its likely to flop, Darksiders II on Wii U is the best version (it also includes the DLC), Mass Effect 3 on Wii U is the best console version (+ it includes map packs, From Ashes, & the Extended Cut as main portions unlike the Trilogy which has no From Ashes), & ZombiU is NOT mediocre. And fuck Greg Miller for that shitty review, other people like Jim Sterling who are real survival horror fans are giving it great reviews. That and M rated games on Nintendo consoles should be supported, do you want Nintendo to keep up with the "kiddy reputation"!? No, of course you don't. The Wii U deserves the same 3rd party content as the PS3 & Xbox 360 and supporting the current crop is the only way to do that.

To those who settle disputes with unnecessary entitlement: cut it the fuck out. People who don't support what's there don't deserve anything else, why should someone bake delicious cake for another person when said other person is going to say its shit because it doesn't have strawberries? The baker obviously isn't going to do it anymore.

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Screw other people for having opinions and not liking everything you like. You are so right.

I hate it but for a different reason. You seem a discerning gamer and that's fine but most gamers will buy these games. They didn't sell before on nintendo platforms because they either did not exist or if they did then the console was literally a carbon copy of the other console everyone else already had. Nintendo needed to find a way to make a simple port different. Motion controls could do that but ultimately they also required that devs actually alter their process and development. I do hope some of them actually try this when the WiiU is market leader this generation. The gamepad is a similar thing and will always seem better when fully utilized however even just making this game playable offscreen instantly provides a benefit to owning the WiiU version. It requires very little rethinking to put your port on the WiiU. Anything you add to the title is just icing on the cake.

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You're only referring to the Wii. But what about the GameCube? Was it Nintendo's fault or 3rd parties fault that the console was purple, the controller was missing buttons, the discs could only hold half the data, and the userbase is served Super Mario Sunshine (the worst 3D Mario to date) and Wind Waker (the game that forever divided the Zelda fanbase)? What about N64? Was it Nintendo's fault or 3rd parties that the development cost was prohibitively too high, the cartridge format was prohibitively too costly, and you give the biggest 3rd party developer at the time (Squaresoft) the middle finger? Nintendo built its own history and 3rd party relationship 3 generations in a row and I have no reason to believe things will be any different with WiiU. Here's the proof:

I agree with everything else but keep in mind that you shouldn't expect ever last-gen port on a next-gen console. It's not like the 360 got every major last-gen port either and Nintendo's relationship isn't something that'll change over night...

I hate it but for a different reason. You seem a discerning gamer and that's fine but most gamers will buy these games. They didn't sell before on nintendo platforms because they either did not exist or if they did then the console was literally a carbon copy of the other console everyone else already had. Nintendo needed to find a way to make a simple port different. Motion controls could do that but ultimately they also required that devs actually alter their process and development. I do hope some of them actually try this when the WiiU is market leader this generation. The gamepad is a similar thing and will always seem better when fully utilized however even just making this game playable offscreen instantly provides a benefit to owning the WiiU version. It requires very little rethinking to put your port on the WiiU. Anything you add to the title is just icing on the cake.

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You're only referring to the Wii. But what about the GameCube? Was it Nintendo's fault or 3rd parties fault that the console was purple, the controller was missing buttons, the discs could only hold half the data, and the userbase is served Super Mario Sunshine (the worst 3D Mario to date) and Wind Waker (the game that forever divided the Zelda fanbase)? What about N64? Was it Nintendo's fault or 3rd parties that the development cost was prohibitively too high, the cartridge format was prohibitively too costly, and you give the biggest 3rd party developer at the time (Squaresoft) the middle finger? Nintendo built its own history and 3rd party relationship 3 generations in a row and I have no reason to believe things will be any different with WiiU. Here's the proof:

WiiU Launch "Window" Missing Games:

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33 launch games. I'm sorry but yes we will have to wait for a larger market before we launch literally every one of these games on any platform. This lists include several million sellers. It was purple and that's why it sold worse then the n64? Was the Xbox also purple? Because it also sold like molasses. Games like Soul Calibur sold better on Gamecube. Resident Evil 4 as well. Your bias once again is getting the best of you.

I hate it but for a different reason. You seem a discerning gamer and that's fine but most gamers will buy these games. They didn't sell before on nintendo platforms because they either did not exist or if they did then the console was literally a carbon copy of the other console everyone else already had. Nintendo needed to find a way to make a simple port different. Motion controls could do that but ultimately they also required that devs actually alter their process and development. I do hope some of them actually try this when the WiiU is market leader this generation. The gamepad is a similar thing and will always seem better when fully utilized however even just making this game playable offscreen instantly provides a benefit to owning the WiiU version. It requires very little rethinking to put your port on the WiiU. Anything you add to the title is just icing on the cake.

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You're only referring to the Wii. But what about the GameCube? Was it Nintendo's fault or 3rd parties fault that the console was purple, the controller was missing buttons, the discs could only hold half the data, and the userbase is served Super Mario Sunshine (the worst 3D Mario to date) and Wind Waker (the game that forever divided the Zelda fanbase)? What about N64? Was it Nintendo's fault or 3rd parties that the development cost was prohibitively too high, the cartridge format was prohibitively too costly, and you give the biggest 3rd party developer at the time (Squaresoft) the middle finger? Nintendo built its own history and 3rd party relationship 3 generations in a row and I have no reason to believe things will be any different with WiiU. Here's the proof:

WiiU Launch "Window" Missing Games:

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So then why do I still own this console if I'm expected to put up with this shit? The saying goes like this: "fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me." I was fooled once by the GameCube (which wasn't bad by its own standards) & now I'm being fooled twice by the Wii U? That really rustles my jimmies that an HD console isn't being treated like one. Also, the following replacements are the real box arts for BioShock Infinite & Tomb Raider.

I hate it but for a different reason. You seem a discerning gamer and that's fine but most gamers will buy these games. They didn't sell before on nintendo platforms because they either did not exist or if they did then the console was literally a carbon copy of the other console everyone else already had. Nintendo needed to find a way to make a simple port different. Motion controls could do that but ultimately they also required that devs actually alter their process and development. I do hope some of them actually try this when the WiiU is market leader this generation. The gamepad is a similar thing and will always seem better when fully utilized however even just making this game playable offscreen instantly provides a benefit to owning the WiiU version. It requires very little rethinking to put your port on the WiiU. Anything you add to the title is just icing on the cake.

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You're only referring to the Wii. But what about the GameCube? Was it Nintendo's fault or 3rd parties fault that the console was purple, the controller was missing buttons, the discs could only hold half the data, and the userbase is served Super Mario Sunshine (the worst 3D Mario to date) and Wind Waker (the game that forever divided the Zelda fanbase)? What about N64? Was it Nintendo's fault or 3rd parties that the development cost was prohibitively too high, the cartridge format was prohibitively too costly, and you give the biggest 3rd party developer at the time (Squaresoft) the middle finger? Nintendo built its own history and 3rd party relationship 3 generations in a row and I have no reason to believe things will be any different with WiiU. Here's the proof:

WiiU Launch "Window" Missing Games:

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33 launch games. I'm sorry but yes we will have to wait for a larger market before we launch literally every one of these games on any platform. This lists include several million sellers. It was purple and that's why it sold worse then the n64? Was the Xbox also purple? Because it also sold like molasses. Games like Soul Calibur sold better on Gamecube. Resident Evil 4 as well. Your bias once again is getting the best of you.

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Exactly, the Wii U needs a large market of core gamers. Hence why I keep on saying support the core Wii U titles if you want this system to approach the other two systems.

I hate it but for a different reason. You seem a discerning gamer and that's fine but most gamers will buy these games. They didn't sell before on nintendo platforms because they either did not exist or if they did then the console was literally a carbon copy of the other console everyone else already had. Nintendo needed to find a way to make a simple port different. Motion controls could do that but ultimately they also required that devs actually alter their process and development. I do hope some of them actually try this when the WiiU is market leader this generation. The gamepad is a similar thing and will always seem better when fully utilized however even just making this game playable offscreen instantly provides a benefit to owning the WiiU version. It requires very little rethinking to put your port on the WiiU. Anything you add to the title is just icing on the cake.

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You're only referring to the Wii. But what about the GameCube? Was it Nintendo's fault or 3rd parties fault that the console was purple, the controller was missing buttons, the discs could only hold half the data, and the userbase is served Super Mario Sunshine (the worst 3D Mario to date) and Wind Waker (the game that forever divided the Zelda fanbase)? What about N64? Was it Nintendo's fault or 3rd parties that the development cost was prohibitively too high, the cartridge format was prohibitively too costly, and you give the biggest 3rd party developer at the time (Squaresoft) the middle finger? Nintendo built its own history and 3rd party relationship 3 generations in a row and I have no reason to believe things will be any different with WiiU. Here's the proof:

WiiU Launch "Window" Missing Games:

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So then why do I still own this console if I'm expected to put up with this shit? The saying goes like this: "fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me." I was fooled once by the GameCube (which wasn't bad by its own standards) & now I'm being fooled twice by the Wii U? That really rustles my jimmies that an HD console isn't being treated like one. Also, the following replacements are the real box arts for BioShock Infinite & Tomb Raider.

Who is fooling you? Assassins Creed is on this console now. CoD is on this console now. Darksiders 2 is on this console now. This isn't me waiting 2 years for someone to acknowledge this nintendo machine. This is day one support. You guys are literally suggesting that Ubisoft and Capcom are going to ignore this console and that's not realistic. They are going to act like a business. They will wait til a market is larger. They will wait til the lists aren't overcrowded. You people are just being ridiculous. I know you want all the games. I respect that part. I don't think we can say this is going to affect Nintendo that they didn't get every game on day one. Most those games will come though.

SiNG Party is being panned by reviewers right now (remember that Sony is spending marketing money on Black Ops Declassified) so its likely to flop

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I don't know how Sony has anything to do with Sing Party being panned by reviewers. Nintendo are the ones who are promoting Sing Party instead of say promoting ZombiU. NOE has figured it all out since the original Wii. Why cannot NOA get a grip and stop investing in shovelware is beyond me.

I didn't see any review saying that Darksiders II on WiiU is the best version and/or even reason why that is or isn't the case. The WiiU version only includes one DLC (there are about 3) and there is no word if it is receiving the 3rd DLC that every other version is receiving. Also, $60 vs $30. Go ahead, pick the $60 version. As an owner of all consoles, the WiiU gamepad features are not worth $30 more to me. Also, I am waiting for the cheaper Darksiders II Complete Version which is 99.99% guaranteed to release within the next few months for every other console but WiiU.

Mass Effect 3 on Wii U is the best console version (+ it includes map packs, From Ashes, & the Extended Cut as main portions unlike the Trilogy which has no From Ashes),

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Yes, it is. But if you haven't played any Mass Effect game to date, why would you pay the same price for the last game on the trilogy when you can get all 3 for the price of 1? Also, no future DLC is coming to WiiU version unlike PS3/360 versions. If you have played the previous Mass Effects, why would you get ME3 on WiiU since your choices in ME1 and ME2 don't transfer? Finally, if you wanted to play ME3 and you haven't played it yet, why would you pay $60 for the WiiU version when you can pay $20 for other versions? The market for ME3 on WiiU is VERY small to begin with. I don't even know why this game exists as a standalone on WiiU to begin with.

& ZombiU is NOT mediocre. And fuck Greg Miller for that shitty review, other people like Jim Sterling who are real survival horror fans are giving it great reviews.

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I never pay over $40 for any game on any console, unless it's Zelda, Metroid, God of War, Metal Gear Solid, or Castlevania. I would have never paid over $40 for Zombi U even if it was 9.3/10 instead of 6.3/10, just like I would never pay over $30 for NSMBU even with the 9.1/10 score on IGN or elsewhere. My decision has nothing to do with the review and everything to do with my backlog and current time for gaming. If my backlog was zero and I wanted to celebrate my WiiU purchase with a new game, ZombiU would be on top of my list of games to play. Nintendoland would remain shrink wrapped for a very very long time.

That and M rated games on Nintendo consoles should be supported, do you want Nintendo to keep up with the "kiddy reputation"!? No, of course you don't. The Wii U deserves the same 3rd party content as the PS3 & Xbox 360 and supporting the current crop is the only way to do that.

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I agree, but I won't go above and beyond myself to ensure that. It is Nintendo's and 3rd party publishers job to make sure those types of games sell on Nintendo consoles. Exclusives like ZombiU are a no brainier, but multiplatform games compete across all platforms. If ACIII on PS3 is $35 with extra content and trophy support, why should I bother with ACIII WiiU that didn't even use the gamepad in the way that everybody expected them to do, nor does it do anything on WiiU better, nor does it have trophies or assurance of DLC support, and to top it all off, costs $25 more than its older brothers? It just doesn't make any financial sense to me as a multiplatform user.

To those who settle disputes with unnecessary entitlement: cut it the fuck out. People who don't support what's there don't deserve anything else, why should someone bake delicious cake for another person when said other person is going to say its shit because it doesn't have strawberries? The baker obviously isn't going to do it anymore.

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It's more like the baker is selling you the same cake for different prices depending on where you plan to eat it. If you will eat it in a Nintendo console, it will cost you a lot more than other consoles and also have 2-3 strawberries less. To this baker I will proudly say, no thank you. If you are going to treat me like crap, I am going to spend my money elsewhere.

SiNG Party is being panned by reviewers right now (remember that Sony is spending marketing money on Black Ops Declassified) so its likely to flop

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I don't know how Sony has anything to do with Sing Party being panned by reviewers. If you want to insinuate that Sony is paying reviewers to pan casual shovelware like Sing Party you're even more delusional than I thought.

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No smart one. I'm saying that people will spend marketing money on products they know are shitty; Nintendo is doing it with SiNG Party & Sony is doing it with Black Ops Declassified. Don't put words in to my mouth.

I never pay over $40 for any game on any console, unless it's Zelda, Metroid, God of War, Metal Gear Solid, or Castlevania. I would never paid over $40 for Zombi U even if it was 9.3/10 instead of 6.3/10. My decision has nothing to do with its review and everything to do with my backlog and current time for gaming. If my backlog was zero and I wanted to celebrate my WiiU purchase with a new game, ZombiU would be on top of my list of games to play on WiiU. Nintendoland will remain shrink wrapped for a very very long time.

You're only referring to the Wii. But what about the GameCube? Was it Nintendo's fault or 3rd parties fault that the console was purple, the controller was missing buttons, the discs could only hold half the data, and the userbase is served Super Mario Sunshine (the worst 3D Mario to date) and Wind Waker (the game that forever divided the Zelda fanbase)? What about N64? Was it Nintendo's fault or 3rd parties that the development cost was prohibitively too high, the cartridge format was prohibitively too costly, and you give the biggest 3rd party developer at the time (Squaresoft) the middle finger? Nintendo built its own history and 3rd party relationship 3 generations in a row and I have no reason to believe things will be any different with WiiU. Here's the proof:

WiiU Launch "Window" Missing Games:

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33 launch games. I'm sorry but yes we will have to wait for a larger market before we launch literally every one of these games on any platform. This lists include several million sellers. It was purple and that's why it sold worse then the n64? Was the Xbox also purple? Because it also sold like molasses. Games like Soul Calibur sold better on Gamecube. Resident Evil 4 as well. Your bias once again is getting the best of you.

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Exactly, the Wii U needs a large market of core gamers. Hence why I keep on saying support the core Wii U titles if you want this system to approach the other two systems.

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No such title exists. There are games people want to play and games people don't want to play. The titles that deserve to sell don't deserve pity, they will sell if they are there. I'm just confused with your belief, not with what will happen. AC3 will sell. CoD will sell. Batman will probably even sell. This isn't the reason they won't ignore the WiiU though because again. CoD3 on the Wii outsold the PS3 version and that didn't suddenly get us every big mature "core" port. We didn't get the first modern warfare until 2 years after it's release on PS3 and 360. Again a hardcore mature titles about shooting people sold well and the Wii was ignored by the very company that saw better sales performance on the Wii then the PS3. It was also just a mere 500,000 units less than a console (360) that had been out since a year before and therefore had at the time a larger installed base.

The WiiU will be supported because the Wii already did well. They won't wait til that 4th year like they did with Wii. It's right now. It's all around us. Some of you are choosing to ignore it.

To those who settle disputes with unnecessary entitlement: cut it the fuck out. People who don't support what's there don't deserve anything else, why should someone bake delicious cake for another person when said other person is going to say its shit because it doesn't have strawberries? The baker obviously isn't going to do it anymore.

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It's more like the baker is selling you the same cake for different prices depending on where you plan to eat it. If you will eat it in a Nintendo console, it will cost you a lot more than other consoles and also have 2-3 strawberries less. To this baker I will proudly say, no thank you. If you are going to treat me like crap, I am going to spend my money elsewhere. That is a two way road FYI.[/quote]
They're offering less as skeptics for not buying the same quality 3rd party games (GUN, True Crime, XIII, etc.) on the GameCube. Why would they give the same content when the consumers fucked them over on core games in favor of shit?