Re: The Lost Adams Diggings

Hey Fellas, Hola Oroblanco

I have six different printed versions that have supposed directions from Ord to the gold. All were originally written before 1880 using second and third hand info., given by people, directly from Adams /Brewer or recorded by people who are proven to have spoken to those who got info directly fron Adams/Brewer. Four of the six 'reporters' name Wingate as the fort Gotch-ear spoke of , specifically, as he pointed out the 'wagon road' that led north. I do not wish to second-guess them; the 'KISS' principle works well here.

It works especially well when one searches out maps that show military roads of the period for New Mexico Territory. These maps were, of neccessity, quite accurate for not being surveyed or satelite photoed. Unlike today, maps could be a life-or-death tool in Apache country in mid-1800's.

Perhaps my mind is too simple to go off on a dozen tangents. There are five clues that are separate and non-conflicting; East from Ord - South from Wingate - East/south-east from location of future Fort Apache - West from 'a day's walk' from Pueblo Arieto on Rio Grande - Northwest from Warm Springs Agency. These clues cover the implied routes of the full group of miners, Adams, Brewer, Supply Party, and Ciy'e Nana's directions to James Chase.

In case you are wondering why I am 'running my mouth' here; After I quit running around in circles and started thinking instead, I find I have grown too old and bunged up to actually search for this sucker. Oh well,....Life's a *****.

Re: The Lost Adams Diggings

Originally Posted by BudP

...I have six different printed versions ...

I've got over twenty, including a family memoir from a Silver City mining man who talked directly with Adams in Southern California and targeted a canyon nobody else has ever mentioned. Despite all this, I wouldn't bet two bits as to the location of the diggings, or whether they really exist at all for that matter. Makes for great fun talking about it though. Regarding forts, Camp Grant has a lot of merit with Fort West on the table too. I personally gave up on Wingate a long time ago, but ... who knows?

Re: The Lost Adams Diggings

One of my "pet" projects, LOL

I even have a couple hand drawn maps that are supposedly irrefutable.
I still go out prospecting the area, but only to prospect anymore. Those canyons are pretty despicable and are not in the least user friendly. My advice to the beginner is don't.

There are a lot of legends that are more viable than this one.
They are a lot more survivable too.

Re: The Lost Adams Diggings

Originally Posted by Springfield

Originally Posted by BudP

...I have six different printed versions ...

I've got over twenty, including a family memoir from a Silver City mining man who talked directly with Adams in Southern California and targeted a canyon nobody else has ever mentioned. Despite all this, I wouldn't bet two bits as to the location of the diggings, or whether they really exist at all for that matter. Makes for great fun talking about it though. Regarding forts, Camp Grant has a lot of merit with Fort West on the table too. I personally gave up on Wingate a long time ago, but ... who knows?

I firmly believe the 'Adams' exists. The people I believe in are those who believed Adams, Brewer and Davidson enough to ante-up for credible searches, those such as CA Shaw, Major Eugene Fechet, DB Sturgeon-Army Doctor, and a few hints from Ammon Tenney, close friend of Brewer. These men had current information which was timely, not speculation and literary license a hundred years later.

The biggest reason I think Wingate is THE fort, the men who were there, on the spot-at the time (Adams and Brewer), both were witnessed saying Gotch-ear called the trail/wagon road, 'the route to fort Wingate and supplies'. Anything else is pure speculation by later searchers who started from the 'wrong' Wingate and found nothing, then started listening to Dobie and others of his ilk......Just my take.

Re: The Lost Adams Diggings

Originally Posted by Old Dog

One of my "pet" projects, LOL

I even have a couple hand drawn maps that are supposedly irrefutable.
I still go out prospecting the area, but only to prospect anymore. Those canyons are pretty despicable and are not in the least user friendly. My advice to the beginner is don't.

There are a lot of legends that are more viable than this one.
They are a lot more survivable too.

Yeah, I think I might have the same maps - Apache Box area? We were involved in a search and rescue for a LAD pilgrim a couple years ago above the Rio San Francisco north of Mule Creek, NM. Man, what rough country. You can skirt through it, but you'll never see much of it up close. Same all over the southwest. By the way, 'malpais' doesn't necessarily translate to 'lava flow' - a serious misconception that has painted many a LAD searcher into a corner.

Re: The Lost Adams Diggings

Another variation I remember, stems from the events that followed after the massacre.
As I heard it from my uncle and vague on my part at that, two men were sent to Fort Apache for supplies; a route that took a couple of days each way. I remember hearing that the camp was attacked more than once over the five trips they made into the area. The first attack was on the trail, somewhere between the Fort and the site, and from there the natives moved in on them again as they were preparing to leave for home. There is legend of several attacks or massacres that took place on early Spanish/Mexican mine sites here in Utah and it appears that each time they were wiped out just as they were again preparing to hit the trail. The Natives claim to have thrown the bodies of their victims and the rest of the pack train back into the mine; on more than one occasion.

Supposedly, these two miners were on the way back from the Fort when the battle took place and as they had been held up due to bad weather, rain I think, the party would have otherwise been on the trail and already gone. Either way every one died accept for Adams and one of the other two miners, but his wounds proved to be fatal and he died on the way back. Thats how I remember it anyway. Adams was the only survivor on the last trip and returned seriously wounded due to an arrow in his belly that had been there for the entire three days it took to get back to Show Low and the Old Calvary Saloon where he dropped and passed out on the floor. Now it appears that there were two separate Germans by the name of Adams, two separate mother lodes; both of fable and fortune, found and not found. Peralto here.

Re: The Lost Adams Diggings

Springfield - if you are still following this thread, that treasure hunter you had mentioned Ballinger, had his name cleared; here is what I ran across quite by accident:

A Name Cleared

Gene Ballinger , 58, a former editor at New Mexico's weekly Lordsburg Liberal , wins a 13-year battle with the state's judicial system when a federal appeals court overturns his 1980 murder conviction. A jury had found Ballinger guilty based on the testimony of John Rizzo , who said he had seen Ballinger march the victim away at gunpoint. Rizzo, who was granted immunity to testify, told the jury that he was able to lead police to the body and weapon not because he was the killer, but because he had learned the information by hanging a pendulum over a map and "dowsing" for the remote locations. Ballinger, who completed a four-year prison term, began work as editor of the weekly Courier in Hatch, New Mexico, the day of his 1990 release. "When something like this happens to you, especially in our business, you come to appreciate the hell [unjustly convicted] people go through," he says. "Any time a court makes a decision, I take a long, deep look to see why."

This makes me really wonder about Rizzo - and would his immunity obtained for his testimony then, now protect him from a murder charge?
Roy

SUPPORT THE BEEF INDUSTRY - EAT BEEF
"We must find a way, or we will make one."--Hannibal Barca

Re: The Lost Adams Diggings

Springfield - if you are still following this thread, that treasure hunter you had mentioned Ballinger, had his name cleared; here is what I ran across quite by accident:

A Name Cleared

Gene Ballinger , 58, a former editor at New Mexico's weekly Lordsburg Liberal , wins a 13-year battle with the state's judicial system when a federal appeals court overturns his 1980 murder conviction. A jury had found Ballinger guilty based on the testimony of John Rizzo , who said he had seen Ballinger march the victim away at gunpoint. Rizzo, who was granted immunity to testify, told the jury that he was able to lead police to the body and weapon not because he was the killer, but because he had learned the information by hanging a pendulum over a map and "dowsing" for the remote locations. Ballinger, who completed a four-year prison term, began work as editor of the weekly Courier in Hatch, New Mexico, the day of his 1990 release. "When something like this happens to you, especially in our business, you come to appreciate the hell [unjustly convicted] people go through," he says. "Any time a court makes a decision, I take a long, deep look to see why."

This makes me really wonder about Rizzo - and would his immunity obtained for his testimony then, now protect him from a murder charge?
Roy

Hi Oro (from Athens, Greece, where we saw some great historical sites today):
I attended the trial in 1980 and at the time thought (along with most others at the time) that Rizzo was the culprit. I don't know what has happened with Rizzo since, or as you say, whether he might still be on the hook. My guess is that nothing more will come of it.

Re: The Lost Adams Diggings

WOW Springfield - Athens, the Acropolis, the temple of Athena! The birthplace of Democracy! I am jealous amigo!
<I hope you folks are having a great time, remember you only live once.> That would be sad and injustice if Rizzo now is scot-free, as Real de Tayopa pointed out murder has no statute of limitations, but if Rizzo made his deal of immunity will that protect him? I don't know and hope not.
Roy

SUPPORT THE BEEF INDUSTRY - EAT BEEF
"We must find a way, or we will make one."--Hannibal Barca

Re: The Lost Adams Diggings

A deal for immunity is based upon sworn testimony or in other words, the truth. If it is later determined that the testimony was false then the immunity deal is invalid. Also perjury charges come into play.

Re: The Lost Adams Diggings

First, I apologize for being away for a while. I had to take care of my health and go through physical rehab elsewhere away from my computer. I also thought there was little interest and it seemed so odd to me myself after reading others posts and doubts, but now I see a lot more interest by those who posted their interests.

Iíll be happy to show the area if everyone interested can understand, that the main treasure could still be there, but itís doubtful after reading Jensenís posts since 2003 where the site was last updated as Tommy I believe mentioned. Thatís nearly eight years and I canít find one single article regarding the place. If there are those still interested, please post so. I wrote earlier and havenít seen anyone return since but then itís coming into the holidays so everyone is busy Iím sure. Besides, it may be better to wait until early Spring weather permitting to go there in person to the LAD. Helicopter service would be the best bet, besides, this area is a very good representation of how gold forms over many hundreds of thousands if not millions of years. There are other claims of the LAD being found, but then, whereís the gold? Nobody, including Jensen has posted photos, video or whatever of the gold. The area I believe may be protected by those hoping to preserve the area. The area is on BLM land as I am sure those who are privy to the location will find if they check after I post the locations or if we can still come to some sort of agreement to go there as a team, would be the best way. Iím worried about going into the canyon by the main normal way.

Please read the book, you can find it online or at the library or whatever, itís cheap but gives a great view of the true story of the original party of twenty two men of whom twenty were slaughtered by the Apache after wearing out their welcome and going against Chief Nanaís directions and orders. Instead of leaving the following day, these men chose to stay and if need be fight the entire Apache and Yaqui nations for the gold, which like the saying goes about fools and gold fever. I am seriously on the side of believing even Mr. Jensen met with ill fate now after looking even harder over the last month or so since I posted before seeing all the great responses again recently. In the mean time, planning is good, but it would be best to plan on actually going to work during our spare time to recover the gold that may lay much deeper in the canyon, below the floor, where the water flows down into a very prominent faults where there is obvious volcanic activity deeper down where the gold should be and in very large amounts considering itís a natural gold catch besides natural area where gold would form over time.

The main thing is to keep in mind that the area as far as any burial mounds should be preserved and I want to work with the University to help determine just what ancient history is obviously in the area. I have no doubt personally it was in fact an ancient burial site for Apache Chiefs. There is a good reason, by looking at the canyon from the top of the highest peak where Adams hid after the attack above the pumpkin patch why he named the nugget he kept from the canyon, The Goose Egg nugget. The nugget itself didnít resemble an egg of any nature, but was about the size.

If everyone is in agreement as to using the gold found into preserving the area for future generations to know and understand. I personally would like to use profits of mine to shoot a movie telling the original story of the Adams party to the writer by the name of Ron Jensen who seems to have vanished there, to the Spanish who obviously found the place, but were also most likely slaughtered and whatever remaining parties were never able to locate again, which there is a very good reason why this happened to Adams, the Spanish and whoever the other survivors were besides Adams and the other man who died shortly after being rescued by the Calvary.

I am sure, that this will be a fascinating expedition for anyone involved and if I am correct, there is more gold deeper down under the canyon floor, however the rest of the surface gold was most likely finally pinched out by Jensen who claimed to find the cache hidden by the Adams party.

Iíll keep checking back again this week to see if anyone is still interested. I feel this would make a great newspaper story or TV news or documentary. Please, if anyone has time, keep trying to find Jensen. I am sure by now after all these years, he was met with ill fate by those maybe he wrote about on his website: lostadams.com

There is plenty of time to plan this I'm sure. I'll be happy to post where hte location is that I'm sure everyone will agree once they see it inreal person. I should be a lot less disabled phsically myself and am looking forward to working the area in early Spring with anyone still interested. and we can all verify each other's information first. Thanks for all the gret replies and interest.

Re: The Lost Adams Diggings

ORO:
Not sure if you have come across this information, but I tend to believe it. I think the details Adams gave were all basically true, but they didn't lead to a placer gold site, but instead a cabin that was known to him and others. James A. McKenna even touches on details very similar to what Adams described in his book "Black Range Tales," when he discusses his search for the gold. I think Adams indeed helped in the murder and robbery of either a pack train or group of men carrying gold from California back east. There is even that brief snippet in Dobie's book "Apache Gold and Yaqui Silver" where the army man calls Adams a liar and accuses him of murdering some miners.... I think the Digs Legend is proof of people wanting to believe and as much as I love Dobie, he never let the truth stand in the way of a good story.