I think it just shows that new and used markets are distinct. I suspect there is new demand for used Leafs, particularly in markets where gas prices have risen and people with old beaters are looking to get into a newer car. The attractive pricing of the 3 and 4 year old Leafs, combined with the "fuel" savings versus ICE cars, is making a Leaf purchase more compelling.

In the PNW, I suspect Canadians like myself buying up used Leafs and importing them into Canada is starting to put pressure on supply and therefore raising prices in the PNW. Anecdotally, I'm seeing a lot more EVs in the Greater Vancouver area than just a year ago.

The optimist in me thinks that perhaps there are even some people who, in the face of cynical actions by the Trump administration towards climate change and the environment in general, are taking action to diminish their own carbon footprint without relying on government to do so. In other words, it's becoming fashionable to be environmentally responsible. I hope that's the case...

People don't pay attention to this global warming talk because is is all government and political "stuff". People have good reason to be pessimistic. I am the optimist who hopes people are finally starting to look at affordable, practical, and the value added proposition that an electric vehicle brings.

Personally I look at it from the practical, frugal, sensible approach that renewable energy makes more sense than the current alternatives and that electric vehicles really can leverage renewable energies well. It is practical because most of my regular driving is normally short distances to known destinations with little or no concern at all for an electric cars range. It is practical because you get to fuel it up at home, so no wasted time or effort to make sure your have "gas" to get you where you need to go. It is frugal because it is far cheaper to put electricity in my car and drive than it is to put gasoline in my car, and there is none of the maintenance and care issues that come with an ICE car. The last time my car was in the shop they were charging $120 an hour to look at my car. Who can afford to have your car in the shop? With an electric car a lot of those concerns go away. So it is frugal, practical, and sensible especially if you buy one used like I am doing. Let someone else eat the depreciation today and you get a very nice car in a couple of years at an affordable price. The price of these cars new needs to come down so that the price is more mainstream and does not require tax incentives to make them affordable. Since the it is actually cheaper materials cost wise to build an electric car we should see the cost continue to drop and be less expensive than a ICE vehicle in the future. I hope that future gets here sooner rather than later.

Electric vehicles have fewer parts, should require far less maintenance, and are far more efficient. Electric vehicles should wear out far less often so we should see fewer cars ending up being crushed. Electric vehicles are quieter, produce less noise pollution, less air pollution, and should reduce ground and water pollution as the most toxic components are recycled. New battery technologies with solid state batteries bring the promise of batteries that are not toxic, should last far longer, and recharge far faster so even cars like the Leaf could completely get a new lease on life with new batteries that are better for everyone making an already practical car a "no brainer".

I don't think we have to focus on the climate stuff to drive the point home that there are real benefits for people and that will be the reason that these cars sell. Electric vehicles today make more sense than many ICE cars for most of what people use a vehicle for. The electric vehicle situation only appears to be getting better and in the end it will have the broader impacts of real climate concerns that we all share.

I think as people realize how practical electric cars are the sales will only continue to pick up. Now if we could just do something to improve the infrastructure for electric vehicles so that people didn't have to worry about running out of juice then most of peoples concerns would be relieved. Investment in infrastructure needs to be the priority to change peoples thinking faster on electric vehicles. It is happening, but it is like watching paint dry and many places are an EV desert! When you see EV charge stations as frequently as you see petrol stations you will know we have "arrived".

Unfortunately, on a purely economic basis, it still makes more sense to drive an ICE in states where gas is $3 a gallon of less. One of the few exceptions, due to worse than average depreciation, is an older Leaf. However, most people don't research a used car buy based on depreciation so a Leaf doesn't even end up on their radar.

alozzy wrote:Unfortunately, on a purely economic basis, it still makes more sense to drive an ICE in states where gas is $3 a gallon or less. One of the few exceptions, due to worse than average depreciation, is an older Leaf. However, most people don't research a used car buy based on depreciation so a Leaf doesn't even end up on their radar.

You can't just go by the price of gas, it also matters the price of electricity.

For me that is $2.00 a gallon for gas right now and about 9.5 cents per kWh but lets call it 10 cents for easy math. No wait let me just use my prior math.

At 2.50 a gallon and 10 cents per kWh Prius vs Leaf ( I own one of each) I was doing about 2 cents a mile leaf and about 4 cents a mile Prius. So for me Gas has to get down below $1.25 a gallon before I start driving the Prius for long trips and even then I'd avoid it if I could for the comfort/technical advantages of the Leaf.

I like not burning gas at idle (drive through, parking lots and such). The Prius will shut the gas engine off at stop if everything is just right but so often it comes on because of heat or AC or just to warm the catalytic converter. The Leaf is so much better at not being obnoxious. And that's just the sound and vibration, not counting the actual pumping gas, changing oil, emissions, washing hands and such.

As to price of purchase I got them both around the same price (I paid jut over $10K for the Prius and right at $9K for the Leaf). I don't know that I'd get much of anything for either of them if I tried to sell one but someday I'll find out.

Maybe I replace the pack in the Leaf and keep it longer, maybe I drive this pack into the ground and buy another cheap Leaf, maybe I keep it for a glorified golf cart and buy a better EV (Tesla S, X, or 3). I don't have to do any of those now so I have plenty of time down the road to make some sort of decision.

alozzy wrote:At 2.50 a gallon... I was doing... about 4 cents a mile Prius.

You get 62.5 mpg in your Prius??? Awesome!!! Now I want one. But still, unless you get 120mpg (Honda Grom??), or the price of gasoline were at least $1.25 there's not much of a comparison. I also find that most public charging stations around here are free. Like my 380 mile trip I did for virtually free. There aren't too many places giving away free gasoline.

Absent serious hypermiling, that's plug-in Prius territory. I'm not sure about the Gen II, but the Gen III Prius gets roughly 49-55MPG. My housemate's lifetime average for her PIP is about 72MPG, IIRC. That's a bit higher than typical, because she can run all in-town errands in EV mode.

I'm seeing prices steadily coming down on used Leafs here but the take up of EV's is still very small especially in my neck o the woods. I see very few on the roads here. although petrol is still around the (equivalent) $7 gallon mark the best selling cars of 2017 are getting great MPG figures so it's going to hard to get people to change to an BEV. My electricity price/Kwh is £0.16/$0.20

erichz wrote:I stumbled across this article yesterday and I can't tell where the author is getting their data from. I don't see any trend at all in used prices of the Leaf skyrocketing, going from $7000 to $11000 over the past few months. The author states it's due to new regulations on ICE cars overseas but this is the first I've heard of it.

The poor editing and writing also make me skeptical.

Is there any truth to what the article says???

Bah! Who cares? Value? Can you spell used NO gasoline??!! To me, THAT is VALUE!! I LOVE IT!!

My license plates say "INF-MPG" and I MEAN IT!! INFINITE MILES PER GALLON!!! A number of years ago I began riding my bicycle seriously and I said when I did I bought a gallon of gasoline and put it in a can in my garage, and no matter how far I ride that gallon of gasoline STAYS FULL!!

erichz wrote:I stumbled across this article yesterday and I can't tell where the author is getting their data from. I don't see any trend at all in used prices of the Leaf skyrocketing, going from $7000 to $11000 over the past few months. The author states it's due to new regulations on ICE cars overseas but this is the first I've heard of it.

The poor editing and writing also make me skeptical.

Is there any truth to what the article says???

Bah! Who cares? Value? Can you spell used NO gasoline??!! To me, THAT is VALUE!! I LOVE IT!!

My license plates say "INF-MPG" and I MEAN IT!! INFINITE MILES PER GALLON!!! A number of years ago I began riding my bicycle seriously and I said when I did I bought a gallon of gasoline and put it in a can in my garage, and no matter how far I ride that gallon of gasoline STAYS FULL!!

= Infinite MPG! Do the math!!

John Kuthe...

That's one way to do the math. But it's misleading because you are extracting zero energy from that gallon of gasoline. In reality, your EV (and bicycle) get ZERO mpg. No matter what you do with that gallon of gas you bought, it will not move your bicycle or EV.

Lancpudn wrote:I'm seeing prices steadily coming down on used Leafs here but the take up of EV's is still very small especially in my neck o the woods. I see very few on the roads here. although petrol is still around the (equivalent) $7 gallon mark the best selling cars of 2017 are getting great MPG figures so it's going to hard to get people to change to an BEV. My electricity price/Kwh is £0.16/$0.20

I was wondering where all the super fuel efficient cars were. Here in the USA everyone I talk to still thinks 30mpg is great fuel mileage. If they get 20 they're happy. But I used to get as much as 60mpg in my ol' 1985 VW. I thought that surely technology has advanced enough to get better fuel mileage than that. But when comparing fuel mileage records with Prius owner's I usually got substantially better fuel mileage driving that ol' piece of junk than they did. And how does burning more fuel lower emissions levels?

Well that's the main reason I bought my Nissan Leaf. It's a step up, not a step down. Basically I'd like a car just like my 'ol Golf, that gets excellent +50mpg fuel mileage, has very little need of maintenance, will have a long life (the Golf has +500,000 miles on it) and won't cost a fortune to buy. The only things I'd like to change is to get better, modern emissions levels and for it to look better than the ol' rust bucket condition of the Golf. Well, all that and more safety too. The Leaf was as close as I could get in all those respects.