Re: Best Copper Fouling Remover... - 10/06/1010:22 AM

Re: Best Copper Fouling Remover... - 10/06/1010:22 AM

The above beat Sweets 7.62 and CR-10 which are the only other specific copper remover I've tried. Sweets and CR-10 beat Shooter's Choice and Hoppe's #9 but all those warnings about what they do to bores made me switch to Montana.

Re: Best Copper Fouling Remover... - 10/06/1010:39 AM

Re: Best Copper Fouling Remover... - 10/06/1012:04 PM

Re: Best Copper Fouling Remover... - 10/06/1012:04 PM

I pretty much use only Montana Extreme Copper Remover these days, mostly because it's so easy to use. Run a few soaked patches through the bore, then let the rifle sit for an hour or overnight, depending in the bore and your needs, then use a few dry patches to push out the gunk.

If the bore fouls so much that MT Extreme doesn't clean it easily, then I install Ultra Bore Coat.

Re: Best Copper Fouling Remover... - 10/06/1002:51 PM

+1 on the Montana extreme...it really gets after copper right now. Sweets, Barnes CR-10 also works pretty good. If not to extreme butches bore shine is a good copper and other fouling remover. For those of you that belive that wipe out is answer...borrow a bore scope for a surprise!

Re: Best Copper Fouling Remover... - 10/06/1003:54 PM

Re: Best Copper Fouling Remover... - 10/06/1004:07 PM

The big advantage of Montana Extreme is that it won't harm the bore. Most of the traditional ammonia cleaners will if left in the bore over 15 minutes or so, so another patch has to be run through at about that time interval. But you can just leave Montana Extreme in there as long as you want.

Wipe-Out can also be left in the bore, but in my experience MT Extreme works somewhat quicker.

Re: Best Copper Fouling Remover... - 10/06/1004:07 PM

I've got some Montana extreme cream & 50 BMG copper killer, Hoppes elite copper eliminator, & wipeout...by far, wipeout is the easiest & IMO is as good if not better than the others...it's certainly the easiest & is the only thing I use anymore.

ETA: I also run a patch of Hoppes #9 after the wipeout...good MOJO & makes it smell right.

Re: Best Copper Fouling Remover... - 10/06/1005:47 PM

One other nice trait of Wipe-Out is the wife won`t toss you and your rifle out the door when you use it.99% of the other cleaners clear your sinus and peel paint from the next room along with getting the carbon and copper out of the barrel.

Re: Best Copper Fouling Remover... - 10/07/1007:16 AM

I think that I have tried them all and hands down the best is a Canadian product called Copper Melt but it is hard to find anymore.Bore Tech Eliminator works great on copper without ammonia.

I ordered Copper Melt once but when my first bottle arrived in the mail it had leaked and the bottle was pretty much empty. It appeared as though pressure had built up forcing the cap's seal to fail. Called and they sent me another one and used it all up. I wasn't overly impressed.

Nowadays after trying just about everything out there I prefer Montana Extreme Copper Killer (50BMG) followed by Wipeout.

Re: Best Copper Fouling Remover... - 10/07/1008:33 AM

Just bought a bottle of the Montana Extreme 50BMG solution and will be trying it soon. Been using Wipe Out with 100% satisfaction but wanted to try something that might work faster. Used Sweet's and Barnes CR10 for a long time but tossed them both after trying Wipe Out. Have also tried Butch's Bore Shine and Bore Tech Eliminator, found them about worthless for copper removal.

Re: Best Copper Fouling Remover... - 10/07/1008:44 AM

Re: Best Copper Fouling Remover... - 10/07/1009:21 AM

Originally Posted By: scottfromdallas

Any opinions on Gunslick foam?

I got a can of it about a week ago, and was extremely impressed on the easy quick job it did on my guns.

I "cleaned" 2 guns with Butch's bore shine and got some copper out. Then I use the Gunslick foam and holy cow!!!! You would have thought the gun hadn't been cleaned in 20 yrs. Just squirt it into the barrel, wait a few minutes, run a patch thru, instant clean.

I'm sold on the Gunslick foam and will use it as my main copper solvent in the future.

Re: Best Copper Fouling Remover... - 10/07/1012:57 PM

I currently use Bore Tech products, after using all the other brands mentioned here, and many that weren't.

I especially like Bore Tech's "Proof Positive" jags, nylon brushes and Proof Positive rods. One problem is that any brass jag or rod ferrule will leach copper on to a patch, making it difficult to know exactly when a barrel is copper free. Bore Tech's products prevent hardware leaching as they contain no copper alloy.

I used Wipe Out for some time, at least the old formula, and discovered it took approximately three days, seven hours, fifteen minutes and thirty seconds to clean a barrel (okay an exaggeration).

Now I start with Bore Tech's Eliminator to remove most of the surface fouling. Then switch to Cu+2 Copper Remover, and follow up with their C4 Carbon Remover. It's just amazing how much brownish carbon remains in the barrel after removing the copper. It takes much less time and patches are soon coming out clean. I only use nylon brushes, and clean with a bore guide.

It should be mentioned that I use mostly custom barrels that are double lapped during manufacture,but even the odd factory barrel cleans up quickly.

I read that using solvents containing ammonia (NH3) on warm or hot barrels can nitride the surface of the steel embrittling it, especially carbon barrels. May be just a urban legend, but I prefer the new ammonia free solvents for use at the range.

This is just my technique - like placing patches in Nalgene cosmetic jars and saturating them with solvent so they are ready to use in the field - so take it as opinion. Really any commercial solvent will work.

Re: Best Copper Fouling Remover... - 10/07/1005:39 PM

I think that I have tried them all and hands down the best is a Canadian product called Copper Melt but it is hard to find anymore.Bore Tech Eliminator works great on copper without ammonia.

I ordered Copper Melt once but when my first bottle arrived in the mail it had leaked and the bottle was pretty much empty. It appeared as though pressure had built up forcing the cap's seal to fail. Called and they sent me another one and used it all up. I wasn't overly impressed.

Nowadays after trying just about everything out there I prefer Montana Extreme Copper Killer (50BMG) followed by Wipeout.

Must have been a different product that you tried, I still have 2 bottles for emergencies and it works much better than any Montana product...infact the Bore tech products work better than the Montana followed by Wipeout, you must not shoot and clean very often.

Re: Best Copper Fouling Remover... - 10/08/1006:34 AM

I think that I have tried them all and hands down the best is a Canadian product called Copper Melt but it is hard to find anymore.Bore Tech Eliminator works great on copper without ammonia.

I ordered Copper Melt once but when my first bottle arrived in the mail it had leaked and the bottle was pretty much empty. It appeared as though pressure had built up forcing the cap's seal to fail. Called and they sent me another one and used it all up. I wasn't overly impressed.

Nowadays after trying just about everything out there I prefer Montana Extreme Copper Killer (50BMG) followed by Wipeout.

Must have been a different product that you tried, I still have 2 bottles for emergencies and it works much better than any Montana product...infact the Bore tech products work better than the Montana followed by Wipeout, you must not shoot and clean very often.

Re: Best Copper Fouling Remover... - 10/08/1001:34 PM

Daw..,

Outter's Foul Out II has been described as a pain in the ass. In some respects it is, however, it uses a non abrasive, reverse electro plating process. I've cleaned many old rifles with it that, I am convinced, would never have been cleaned so well without bore damage from a rod or brush.

Re: Best Copper Fouling Remover... - 10/08/1002:29 PM

I have been using a Foul Out III, primarily to clean my Sako AV (30-06). I have tried all kinds of chemical concoctions, spent countless hours soaking/brushing, copper was still visible at the muzzle end. This gadget was a god sent for heavily fouled bores.The pictures show heavy copper deposit on the collecting rod-39 shots went down the tube before cleaning.

Re: Best Copper Fouling Remover... - 10/08/1002:56 PM

I like boretech eliminator based on the lack of heavy odor. The Coppermelt was awesome but he could never get past the packaging issues. I kept wishing he would sell it to a bigger company but he was a bit of an odd duck.

Re: Best Copper Fouling Remover... - 10/09/1002:19 PM

I still use Shooters Choice on normal stuff,and Sweets 7.62 on heavy fouling.They all work,some maybe a little better than others.I clean frequently,and I trust Shooters Choice enough to leave it soaking if I need to.Most all of them will get a little something out of a barrel cleaned with another brand. Lightman

Re: Best Copper Fouling Remover... - 10/11/1002:19 PM

My $0.02, and probably worth about that amount.I used Wipe Out extensively, but seemed to still have copper fouling present after using it. Looking with a bore scope showed small amounts, but present. Montana Extreme seems to do the best. I will also use JB occasionally as an adjunct. I have used virtually all the solvents: Shooters Choice, Bore Tech CR and Eliminator, Butch's, Barnes copper stuff, Montana Extreme, Wipe Out, and T-M Solvent. At the moment, I use mostly Bore Tech's CR and Montana Extreme.FWIW, I think that T-M is as good as there is, if not better, but it took the coating off of my Bore Tech rods, and was hard on the Dewey's. I quit using it.

Re: Best Copper Fouling Remover... - 10/11/1007:29 PM

Wipe out for me, Montana extreme if I'm cleaning at the range but I hate the strong odor and fear it getting on my wood stock. Soaking wipe out for 12 to 14 hours does wonders for me and then 2 or three patches pushes the blue gunk right out. Cleaned 3 rifles totally free of copper after a 24 hour soak in 15 min.

Re: Best Copper Fouling Remover... - 10/15/1012:48 PM

Re: Best Copper Fouling Remover... - 10/15/1006:24 PM

Rickwaldo,

Copper "fouling" can also be highly over-worried. Many rifles shoot great with visible copper in the bore. If your rifle still shoots well, don't worry about it.

The modern conviction that any visible copper at the muzzle complete ruins accuracy has sold more bore-cleaning products than any amount of advertising. But most shooters have never analyzed if copper fouling (or X number of rounds) actually affects the accuracy of their rifle. A lot of the time it doesn't.

Re: Best Copper Fouling Remover... - 10/16/1003:45 AM

the gun shoots fairly well although each bullet, 130, 140 or 150 gr. bullet or type of powder finds its own mark on the paper. i was thinking it might be copper fouling, but probably operator error mostly.

Re: Best Copper Fouling Remover... - 10/26/1009:40 AM

I had a conversation with a gun store employee that is also a varmint hunter. He was of the opinion that Wipe Out and similar products get a barrel "too clean" and in his experience, it usually took 5-20 shots to get his rifles to "settle down", and shoot as accurately as before. Is that possible? What do you think?

Re: Best Copper Fouling Remover... - 10/26/1009:52 AM

I am no benchrest shooter, but my ole Ruger tang safety 25-06 has always had the copper muzzle while it still shot 3/4" 5 shot groups after 50 rds of competition shooting. I did the test group as my 50 shots were either at a Plywood "running deer' or at the 200 YD "offhand" chicken shoot.

She now wears UBC, but I haven't put more than the required 5 shots to cure it down the tube.

I believe almost every article about accurate handloading discusses a "fouler shot" before seriously considering every bullet hole as indicating the load's potential....

Re: Best Copper Fouling Remover... - 10/26/1006:25 PM

Best stuff I've ever found is Bore Tech Eliminator. Non-toxic, won't harm barrels or blueing, works fast. I often use only patches. Just run them through until they stop turning purple/blue. A nylon brush makes it even faster. GREAT stuff.

Re: Best Copper Fouling Remover... - 10/26/1006:33 PM

Re: Best Copper Fouling Remover... - 10/26/1007:03 PM

Originally Posted By: Kentucky_Windage

Best stuff I've ever found is Bore Tech Eliminator. Non-toxic, won't harm barrels or blueing, works fast. I often use only patches. Just run them through until they stop turning purple/blue. A nylon brush makes it even faster. GREAT stuff.

I tried to pass this idea along a couple weeks ago on this thread but nobody will listen, they all have their own agenda and listening apparently is not part of that. let them keep struggling thinking Hoppes is a miracle cologne and barrel cleaner and ammonia has any other use than to singe your nose hairs and clean shoe marks off a school room floor.

Re: Best Copper Fouling Remover... - 10/26/1011:43 PM

I don't care if anyone chooses to listen or not. I've turned all my shooting pals onto Bore Tech, and they're all total converts now. I turned some of the guys at my local rifle range onto the stuff, and now it's all the rage at the range among the regulars. Everyone I've know who's tried it has instantly become a big fan.

Hey, if people don't want to listen, so be it. You can lead a horse to water... Whatever. Maybe some guys LIKE the smell of ammonia.

Re: Best Copper Fouling Remover... - 10/27/1004:52 AM

Originally Posted By: pigster

I have been using a Foul Out III, primarily to clean my Sako AV (30-06). I have tried all kinds of chemical concoctions, spent countless hours soaking/brushing, copper was still visible at the muzzle end. This gadget was a god sent for heavily fouled bores.

Re: Best Copper Fouling Remover... - 10/27/1005:09 AM

Re: Best Copper Fouling Remover... - 10/27/1008:03 AM

Once again, UBC makes this whole argument a moot point. I applied it to 1 rifle. Then it worked so well that I applied it to ALL my rifles. Now I've got all my family members and friends using it. Why clean when you don't have to? Every few hundred rounds I'll push 4-5 patches with Butch's down the bore, or I'll just give it a shot of WipeOut and leave it over night and push out with 1 patch in the morning, and the bore is squeaky clean.

Re: Best Copper Fouling Remover... - 10/27/1011:48 PM

Re: Best Copper Fouling Remover... - 10/28/1006:32 AM

Jordan

Do you find any blue when you push out the patches? I am prepping 2 rifles right now to UBC, and I think for the 17 hmr which is cleaning up very slow ( mostly powder , no blue using sweets) and I am hoping UBC will reduce the time between running a patch down the bore.

I think if you get on the UBC webpage there is mention it was field tested by the Army.

Re: Best Copper Fouling Remover... - 10/28/1008:34 AM

Originally Posted By: BBerg

Does UBC have any effect on barrel life?

BBerg

.

There is no concrete evidence that I have seen regarding this issue, yet, but testing by Doug and others has indicated that the hard ceramic UBC coating may increase barrel life. This makes sense if you consider that there is now a hard ceramic coating between the steel of the bore and the bullet, which would decrease the friction between the two.

Re: Best Copper Fouling Remover... - 10/28/1010:30 AM

Originally Posted By: hemiallen

Jordan

Do you find any blue when you push out the patches? I am prepping 2 rifles right now to UBC, and I think for the 17 hmr which is cleaning up very slow ( mostly powder , no blue using sweets) and I am hoping UBC will reduce the time between running a patch down the bore.

I think if you get on the UBC webpage there is mention it was field tested by the Army.

Allen

Yeah, I definitely see blue on the patches, but it is the equivalent to what you would see after maybe 40-50 rounds without UBC. And I'm cleaning after several hundred rounds. The blue copper fouling also comes out much easier and quicker with UBC.

Re: Best Copper Fouling Remover... - 10/28/1010:47 AM

Thanks

I know John B has written how he can, at the end of a squirrel shootout day, spend more time drinking a refreshing cold one while his partners continue the chore of cleaning their Non-UBC coated bores.... That right there makes a believer out of a person.

BTW, For my 17 I decided to try one of the plastic pull strings Midway sells, it is a green coiled plastic rod with a blob on one end and cut sharp on the other. You pierce a patch with the sharp end, run the patch to the other end, soak the patch, thread the sharp end down the chamber and pull the patch thru. It seems to work great so far, and as long as I wipe the wire between pulls I suspect it must be easier on the bore than a poorly fitted rod/ guide combo and $5....

I switched from the 3/4" square used for the 17 to a 7/8" patch for a 223 and it worked well. They do sell a universal 22 to 12 gauge kit that has "washers" you put on before the patch, which fits the bore better....but I have good rods for the bigger bores and will use them. This seems like a better mousetrap than the "snakes" that are material that can absorb dust, grime, solvent, water, etc., especially for a field kit, as long as you go loose on the patch and it is just for clearing water from the bore. I had one I set up w/ 2 patches to get a tighter fit( should have tried the washers) and was thinking I had messed up and would need a rod to push it back into the chamber, as I got it jammed in the leade. Added lube and it came out easily.

Re: Best Copper Fouling Remover... - 11/03/1001:05 PM

I just picked up some Bore tech CU+2 copper eliminator and put it in a new to me 243 wssm taht was fired I believe 40 rds of Winchester 95 bt's coated in Moly ( factory ammo) after a good soaking of Hoppes, followed by a dose of sweets ( 3x ) and all traces of blue were gone.

I assumed this was clean enough, but the first 10 minutes of Bore tech proved otherwise. I initially thought my brass jag was the issue, but have switched to a nylon loop to hold a patch, and 3x I still see some blue. I may have to get out some other guns to see if they show blue even though I believe they are currently spotless....My 25-06 Ruger 77 is the first and most likely to show copper.

Re: Best Copper Fouling Remover... - 11/03/1004:00 PM

Over on another forum last week and saw a post about "Deatons Deep Clean." A copper, powder, and carbon remover from the bore.

Got the Georgia phone # and call it. Had a 45 minute conversation with Carl Deaton and decided to order a 4 oz bottle.

Was delivered today.

This stuff WORKS! Before, I was using the usual solvent, then JB Bore Compound and followed lastly by the JB Bore Brite. Usually, the patches finally come out clean after I go thru a bunch of them, after which I`ve always assumed that I had a very clean barrel..........NOT SO!

Following the directions using Deatons in what I thought was already a darn clean barrel, my patches nevertheless came out blued and slightly darkened.

Went through 4 rounds of, soak in the bore for 3 minutes then wipe out, soak another 3 minutes then wipe out + 2 more times of the same until the patches were clean.

What remained in the barrel that wasn`t removed before?......................Carbon!

Using a bore light, what I thought was a shiny bore before using the JB, is looking even better now after using Deatons.

Re: Best Copper Fouling Remover... - 11/03/1007:37 PM

Re: Best Copper Fouling Remover... - 11/03/1008:35 PM

Montana Extreme Copper killer a.k.a 50BMG is good stuff, but definately hold your breath when you open the bottle or the smell will knock you out.

I like kg12. It works great with NO smell. If I really want to get 100.000 percent of the copper out of a barrel, I will use a barrel plug and fill the bore with KG-12 overnight. Five minutes of work and a wake-up and you are copper free.

Re: Best Copper Fouling Remover... - 11/03/1009:37 PM

Re: Best Copper Fouling Remover... - 11/04/1012:08 PM

I put some of the Bore tech in the 25-06 and found it had some copper left after Sweet's showed me it was clean 2x....

Can't wait to see if other " clean" guns show copper using the Bore tech. The hard to get used to thing about the Bore tech is it has a low viscosity like water and needs to be slowly soaked into the patch or most will run off into the trash. The other scary change is it is supposed to be the last thing you mop the bore with before storage, not used to NOT using some oil as a protectant....