People have to complain to counter act that massive influx of idiot gamers that just eat whatever shit pie developers and studios crap out in front of them. If people didn't complain we would all be playing NMS for years right along side the martian.

Happened to me long time ago on GGPO too. I can't remember all the details but it was just a midscreen honda backthrow. Funny because I thought it was just some emulation issue or something because I hadn't heard of it since lol.

So am I crazy, or can Honda not perform a Sumo Smash on CPS1 SF2 charging downback to upback (need to end the special going straight neutral up)? Works on Super and ST but not HF (at least not on XBL HF). Weirdness.

So am I crazy, or can Honda not perform a Sumo Smash on CPS1 SF2 charging downback to upback (need to end the special going straight neutral up)? Works on Super and ST but not HF (at least not on XBL HF). Weirdness.

I think he only got that move in HF, not CE or WW. It's done by pressing the kick at neutral before going up.

Different. I'll give that a try. Don't know how I played Honda before ST. CPS1 Honda sucks so much in comparison. No headbutt or sumo smash knockdown. All he (HF Honda) has is that HK Sumo Smash that hits on the way up... which is nice but no where near as important as HHS that move forward and ochio.

Different. I'll give that a try. Don't know how I played Honda before ST. CPS1 Honda sucks so much in comparison. No headbutt or sumo smash knockdown. All he (HF Honda) has is that HK Sumo Smash that hits on the way up... which is nice but no where near as important as HHS that move forward and ochio.

I like Super Honda aka O.Honda. He's just a very different animal, especially with his lack of floaty fierce. You need ridiculous reactions to be able to reliably nj.mk over fireballs.

It's not so much that CPS-1 Honda sucks, it's more like everyone else is better. You think fighting fireball characters in ST is bad, try doing that shit against WW Guile, CE Ryu/Dhalsim/Sagat, or HF (anyone with fireball).

It's not so much that CPS-1 Honda sucks, it's more like everyone else is better. You think fighting fireball characters in ST is bad, try doing that shit against WW Guile, CE Ryu/Dhalsim/Sagat, or HF (anyone with fireball).

Heh. I would think fighting CE/HF guile would be worse than WW since WW guile only has one sonic boom speed IIRC.

Heh. I would think fighting CE/HF guile would be worse than WW since WW guile only has one sonic boom speed IIRC.

I think they are, just because they have more varied move sets to play with. But you can't underestimate the stupidity of jab jab jab jab jab jab jab stun and restun combos. You get caught once and it's round over, and it takes zero skill to pull off.

Is there a list of how the crossup after works against different characters ?

Some seem lag in the air longer than others so the crossup will whiff.
Wheter it crosses up or not seems to also depend on what side you are on.

Have you had any luck figuring this out with consistency? I know SOME of it might just be hitbox-related with certain characters, for example the crossup seems to always whiff on Ryu. But for characters I can cross-up with d+mk following a fierce grab, I still cannot be 100% sure they will actually get crossed up. Sometimes you land in the front anyway. That isn't a horrible thing, but if I KNOW I'm going to land in the front, would prefer to use j.HK.

Is there a list of how the crossup after works against different characters ?

Some seem lag in the air longer than others so the crossup will whiff.
Wheter it crosses up or not seems to also depend on what side you are on.

Have you had any luck figuring this out with consistency? I know SOME of it might just be hitbox-related with certain characters, for example the crossup seems to always whiff on Ryu. But for characters I can cross-up with d+mk following a fierce grab, I still cannot be 100% sure they will actually get crossed up. Sometimes you land in the front anyway. That isn't a horrible thing, but if I KNOW I'm going to land in the front, would prefer to use j.HK.

Heh. I would think fighting CE/HF guile would be worse than WW since WW guile only has one sonic boom speed IIRC.

I think they are, just because they have more varied move sets to play with. But you can't underestimate the stupidity of jab jab jab jab jab jab jab stun and restun combos. You get caught once and it's round over, and it takes zero skill to pull off.

<quitjockinmystyle> everybody i wil approve what is cheating moves or not.
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Because very few ST players check SRK anymore. mostly it's the local facebook group and NHC.
PM me here or on facebook if you need a stick mod or repair. Same with arcade boards and superguns.

Heh. I would think fighting CE/HF guile would be worse than WW since WW guile only has one sonic boom speed IIRC.

I think they are, just because they have more varied move sets to play with. But you can't underestimate the stupidity of jab jab jab jab jab jab jab stun and restun combos. You get caught once and it's round over, and it takes zero skill to pull off.

In a game where you can cps-1 chain any normal into another, pretty much everyone has a redizzy combo. I think HF is the only one with a little more restrictions, so it makes harder for the rest of the case (unless you're Dictator)

Whoops. Got the game mixed up. I meant CE Dictator. Everyone had a dizzy and re-dizzy in WW, but since that sort of stuff got toned down in general, it highlights Dictator's strength in that he can do it off of a scissor kick on hit OR on block.

I noticed, that some japanese players tend to go for normal tick throws instead of ticks into ochio? Any particular reason for it?

Sutorito Faita : Sad strike
vandark, you should hear a cool pherai story from me one day then. Add it to all your history. I'll probably remember it closer to EVO time and just retell it to the forum when I'm probably going to re-tell some more anyway. Its not the glory hole one though, that one's too legendary. You probably know more about that than me.

I noticed, that some japanese players tend to go for normal tick throws instead of ticks into ochio? Any particular reason for it?

Fierce and Roundhouse holds (bear hug and knees) can be followed by safe jumps and baits, so they often allow you to glue onto the enemy and land more damage over time. This is specially true midscreen, where oichio allows the player to escape. Shogatsu is knows for his nasty throw loops and mix-ups, for example.

Honda's pressure after grabs is so great it always seems more worth it to me to grab first, unless you are worried about getting thrown yourself - Honda's normal throw range is better than a lot of characters, though. Every character can be pressured in some fashion after a fierce grab (some easier than others), so you could always tick into ochio or bait a reversal after already doing the fierce grab damage.

His normal strong throw is also integral for tossing opponents into the corner and maintaining pressure.

The only issue is that Honda's walk speed is so bad, it tends to downplay how good his throw range is. It's similar in the way that Chun and Vega have decent and bad throw ranges respectively, but their walk speed tends to make up for that weakness.

So it's also an element of knowing the mind games around the throw. How to bait out certain attacks, whiff punish it, preemptively throw out a sweep, how to train your opponent to block in order to open them up for that throw, etc... The metagame around this stuff is pretty complex beyond just examining throw ranges.

I noticed, that some japanese players tend to go for normal tick throws instead of ticks into ochio? Any particular reason for it?

Like others have mentioned, Honda has amazing options off his HP/HK throws. If the Honda player catches Vega, Balrog, Guile, or Deejay (super non-withstanding for the last three) near midscreen with ether throw the round is likely over. Those throws will also give Chun, Bison, and Dhalsim a really tough time too.

I was looking at the Honda freeze throws.. wow crazy stuff. the weirdest thing I have ever experienced in ST ( all arcade) was Honda vs Honda match and I was being throw with mp and I was able to oichio out of the throw. Not sure how I was able to do this but I was only ever able to do it again once. I also saw on ggpo Claw throw Honda out of the first few frames of the oichio. I have this recorded but not sure how to post it here.

I was looking at the Honda freeze throws.. wow crazy stuff. the weirdest thing I have ever experienced in ST ( all arcade) was Honda vs Honda match and I was being throw with mp and I was able to oichio out of the throw. Not sure how I was able to do this but I was only ever able to do it again once. I also saw on ggpo Claw throw Honda out of the first few frames of the oichio. I have this recorded but not sure how to post it here.

Those aren't possible . Throws are 0-frame startups, so there is nothing you can do once the throw animation itself starts. You're probably just seeing GGPO rollback. That doesn't happen offline.

I recently did some work in the Honda ST wiki for character matchups. Anyone care to comment? All my edits are under "x64" (grumble grumble wish I could change username grumble). Keep in mind most of the matchup stuff was blank when I started.

I recently did some work in the Honda ST wiki for character matchups. Anyone care to comment? All my edits are under "x64" (grumble grumble wish I could change username grumble). Keep in mind most of the matchup stuff was blank when I started.