Reactions to United's victory over Aston Villa

March 30, 2014

1. United won a game! At home! Oh, happy day! Thanks to that victory, now only eight teams have picked up more points at home than us. Carry on like this and we’ll soon be competing with Stoke and Southampton’s home form! In all seriousness, that was a good performance from United today and we should remember that Aston Villa have beaten the likes of Chelsea and Arsenal this season.

2. All the pre-match talk surrounded the plane with the ‘Moyes out’ banner attached. Was it the right thing to do? How would the fans inside the ground react? Would this sway the Glazers’ decision? Unfortunately, I don’t have a first hand account of the event as the overturned lorry on Chester Road meant I didn’t get in to the ground until after kick-off, like so many other fans. Of course, we couldn’t expect the club to delay kick-off so that the fans could see the game when BT Sport had rights to it. But by all accounts, the plane wasn’t well received by the fans inside the ground, and this was only further emphasised by several chants of “every single one of us will stand by David Moyes” and “David Moyes’ red and white army”. Strange behaviour, but more than likely in response to that tacky plane. Did the stunt backfire? Undoubtedly. Still, credit to Moyes for coming on to the pitch early. Takes guts to do that on a day when you know the fans have paid close to a grand to voice their displeasure over the job you’re doing. Imagine if he had been booed by all four stands? Fair play to him.

3. Wayne Rooney proved yet against just how important he is to United. He now has 25 goals and assists in 25 starts (27 appearances) which is an incredible return, particularly in a team that is struggling. He got himself in to a great position to level the score after conceding early on, heading in an inch-perfect cross from Shinji Kagawa, then put us 2-1 up just before half-time. Having relinquished penalty taking duty after a poor record from the spot, it was a huge relief to see him put the ball so close to the post.

4. Juan Mata! We’ve been waiting for him to get off the mark and it looked as though he was about to do just that in the first half. But then he was taken out and somehow the defender avoided a red card, despite denying a clear goalscoring opportunity. But then in the second half, despite Marouane Fellaini’s best attempts to fuck it up, Mata scored his first United goal. He ran straight to the Sir Alex Ferguson stand, visibly delighted, before then celebrating with his team mates and the Stretford End. Mata went to the museum this week and, just in case you thought you couldn’t love him any more, said: “I think every player should know about the history of the club and what it means to play here.” Yeh, I’m smitten.

5. One of the few downsides of the game was Chicharito’s reaction to the goal he scored. Having come on for a brief cameo and still managing to find the back of the net, he didn’t really know what do with himself when it came to celebrating. He just stood in front of the Stretford End, no usual cheeky grin, before just walking away. When the final whistle blew, and the rest of the team hugged each other and shook hands with the opposition, Chicharito headed straight for the tunnel. He’s entitled to be pissed off. He’s barely been given a chance this season and even with Robin van Persie’s injury, he’s still not getting a look in. It’s a sad ending to his time at the club, given how popular he is with the fans.

6. The midfield seems to tick over a lot better when Darren Fletcher starts. The game moves more quickly, with Fletch keen to pass the ball forward and get on with the game, rather than trying to pick out the perfect pass and slowing everything down like Carrick does.

7. Januzaj has played twice in March, both appearances for 75 minutes, but yesterday showed again why he is worthy of a start. He attempted and competed more take ons than any player on the pitch, despite getting a fraction of the time of everyone else, and only Mata was fouled more times than him, showing how much the Villa defence struggled with him. His ball in to Chicharito was perfect and it would be great to see him starting against Bayern.

8. All in all, it was a good afternoon for United. The points at this stage don’t really matter, but the players coming back from 1-0 down to put in a good performance and take advantage of their chances, regardless of the opposition, is a positive thing. Let’s see where we end up on Tuesday…

99 Comments

This season is a write off, lets just give Moyes till January next year to prove he can put into the plans that the board and Moyes keep harping on about. If we see some positive steps in the summer like Round being given his marching orders, and Phil being sent to go help Joyce in the reserves or something we'll know that the change is happening and he'll have earned another full season to show progress for me. Personally think he'll need to accept he's not going to get a lot of the players we need, unless a premium is paid hence the need for that 200 million to be real and ready. Personally think he needs some media coaching as well from Fergie on how not to be drawn to say things that anger the fans, only heaping more pressure on himself.

Come next year if nothing has improved he should be made to leave, as he'll have proven he is not the man to push us forward. The board should spend this summer as well drawing up a list of potential managers who can take over with some input from SAF but drawing the line at him being able to choose.

Hearing Moyes talk about this 'journey' and how it's only the start of the journey quite frankly made me want to burst into tears. It's like we're all on some happy pilgrimage together the way he's fucking talking.

One more thing - there's something in psychology called Goal-Setting Theory. It's principal tenet is this: Setting goals (specifically SMART goals - specific, measurable, attainable, relevant, and time-bound) before attempting a task will enhance motivation and boost performance in that task. It has been demonstrated empirically numerous times in numerous settings that such a relationship works and is heavily used in corporations and organizations as a motivating tool for employees.

It boggles the mind how one of the biggest clubs in the world hired someone at a top position without setting specific, measurable, relevant or time-bound goals for him. It's borderline idiotic.

Liverpool have to play city at home and I will put my money on Liverpool to get three points from that. At the moment yes Liverpool are the favourites but like you said city and Chelsea can beat them .

When Moyes started to complain about the fixture list before a ball was kicked this season, i wrote in this forum that those first 5 matches will make him or break him. Unfortunately for us they broke him!

Now we know that changing our mindset and philosophy, ruined our season and we really had no chance from the start.

Just worried that he will waste a lot of money in the summer and then get the sack. We simply cannot afford another season like this. If we do not hit the ground running next season, and get at least 80% of the points in the first 5 matches, playing attractive, attacking football, he should be sacked. By next January the season may be completely ruined again!

Rodgers has done a great job but keep in mind next season will show whether he can continue to impress. But seriously I won't be surprised in two or three years if FA hires him as England's manager. Anyways don't want to go too ahead of myself.

I understand where you're coming from. I haven't enjoyed this season at all and I have to admit Moyes has grated on me tremendously with his demeanor, press conferences and way we have been playing. But if we give him another season and we still suffer, it teaches the board a valuable lesson that they won't forget when it comes to keeping our great club at the top and challenging. Hopefully it will drill into the Glazers the dangers of under investment, and placing sentiment and two mens (No matter how great they are) recommendations over cold hard facts and information.

I'm willing to wait and see and suffer another season of this if it sets us in good stead for the rest of the future to not make the same mistakes. Contingency plans need to be drawn up now quietly, so we are prepared to re-build from whatever mess Moyes and his staff might potentially leave us in. A competent manager and staff can then come in prepared and start to repair the damage.

On the other hand if we start next season well and sustain it with new blood in the team and the dead wood shipped out, I'll be glad my doubts have been proved wrong and we can start seeing some positive comments here. At the minute blogs and forums are the best place fans can go to vent their frustrations about our current situation, and they shouldn't always come down to us brandishing swords at one another for voicing opinions.

I guess it's easier for you because you don't own the money and debt the Glazers do. No successful organization has the time or money to think like this. For crying out loud, if you want the club to learn "not make the same mistakes" again, make 'em examine Liverpool's track record from 1990 onward.

regardless of our win yesterday,moyes needs to go. his boring football, and pathetic staff is nothing short of embarrasing. i love phil neville, but as an assistant coach or whatever?whats going on here?
theres no way we could compete with other teams who have clever tactical managers when we have moyes,neville and round.

Its beyond a joke.

also his quotes on how fergie wouldve struggled with this team is so LAUGHABLE!
um he won the league with this team less than 12 months ago and you got an extra mata,fellaini and januzaj!shows you his mentality and that he is not cut out for it.

I seriously don't think board will sack moyes now or even at the end of the season. I feel sir Alex and sir bobby are really backing him. If they had to sack moyes he would have gone by now . And also if you hear at moyes press conference each time he says I am looking to build a team for future so he must know board backs him. Don't forget sir Alex doesn't shy away in expressing his opinion. If he wanted to throw moyes out the would have said it by now. Maybe board wants to see how moyes does with the player he chooses in summer. I don't know what actually they are thinking, they may sack him but I don't think that's going to happen so I will just focus in supporting the players and hope (a big hope) that moyes proves everyone wrong.

I think losing to spurs at home sums up our season. I said it to Danny had we just got 3. Points from WBA , Cardiff, Southampton, Newcastle, Fulham,Stoke , even spurs then we would have been In Top 4 and the loses against city and pool wouldn't have hurt us that much but losing to those teams were more suicidal than losing to Chelsea, Liverpool or City.

Ash, listening to Moyes pre and post match press interviews year after year is going to end up sending me to a mental asylum. I can't actually take much of listening to the man. He drives me to bloody tears I kid you not.

While I desperately want Moyes out, I just can't see it happening. He is going to be around until at least Christmas next season. My worry is not with losing another season, but with handing him resources which have been built up for the transition post SAF's retirement since the day Ronaldo left.

In case this does not work out, the new manager would have very little left to build his own team. Its like Einstein saying that if WW3 occurs, WW4 will be fought with sticks and stones. The new guy may have nothing to work with.

The clubs sponsorship deals are set for years, so the revenue from them is not going to drop enough for them not to be able to cover interest payments. Businesses forecast years into the future for numerous scenarios, so I'm sure the club isn't going to suffer from this season or next seeing as the tv money is divided equally among the clubs in the prem unlike in la liga. The Glazers have known nothing else but SAF's success as well so one bad season can be written off for them as transition, two bad seasons and it will set alarm bells off that they have chosen the wrong man based on two men's sentimental approval. This is what I am hoping will give them a harsh slap of reality and show that the main driving force behind the club is gone, and they need to begin serious investment of time and resources for that success to continue.

1. I am dissappointed with this Cleverley bashing. He is an important player to us. Same like Kagawa and Mata in the old setup, he is a victim of the "out of position-out of system" argument. He thrieves on quick shortpasses and plays, and suffers because the system and players employed:

a.CM partner is slow (Fellaini and Carrick are pretty slow) and for carrick, he is dropping too deep

b.faraway players, the Forwards are too far, the wingers and fullbacks are hugging the touchline, so his main weapon of quick shortpasses won't work. and his weakness of being unable to do accurate longpasses is highlighted

c. Playing in a 2 man midfield

d. Playing with a "physical" no.10 in front of him. This is Rooney and Welbeck, who aren't in the same wavelength, as they tend to be more direct and not possession based, Give him Kagawa, Mata or Januzaj as the no.10, and his game will rise high.

Those are some reasons why Cleverley haven't been too good for us so far. But he has shown glimpses of what he can do. His little time with a mobile CM (Jones), or in a 3 man midfield has shown what he is capable of. Even in the Man city game, he has shown what he is capable of, even kagawa who came on didn't do too good.

2. This talk about Rooney, Kagawa, Mata and downplaying infuriates me.
Every single striker we have will lick lips if they are being served by a no.10 behind them, Either its Mata, Kagawa, or Januzaj. luckily, these no.10s can play out of position.

Up until today, we only have seen Kagawa-Mata+someone behind Rooney. This makes us think this is the best setup. but it's not! Any striker we have, which is a long list:
a. Rooney
b. RVP
c. Welbeck
d. Chicharito
e. Will Keane
f. Bebe
g. Macheda
h. James Wilson

Will thrieve when the have Kagawa-Mata behind, better if we have Januzaj, so the wizard trio consisting of three no.10s is complete. This is the main reason why Rooney has been playing good. He is a striker, not a no.10, at least in creative terms. Put RVP behind Januzaj-Kagawa-Mata, and we might see something even better. Let the strikers compete for that one spot left at the top. Don't play them as the no.10 or at the wing by taking other players spot. Rooney, RVP, Welbeck are inferior to Januzaj, Kagawa and Mata in the no.10 spot.

3. This is my last point: Mobile CMs
one problem I've been noticing is how we lose the midfield battle. If you see our CMs who are usually employed, it's no wonder. Giggs, Carrick, Fletcher and Fellaini are pretty slow, immobile, or doesn't have the legs anymore. facing low quality oppositions may not be a problem, but against quality opponents, it will be shown. For the current situation, at least make a 3 man midfield consisting of an immobile CM with 2 other mobile CMs, choose from:
a. Jones
b. Cleverley
c. Valencia
d. Kagawa
e. Rafael

That is if we have to play a 3 man midfield, but if we play a 2 man midfield formation like 4231 or 442, we better choose two from the mobile CM list. These players mobile and also versatile, making them compliment the wizard trio of Januzaj-Kagawa-Mata very well.

Also, what makes me even sadder is that the way Liverpool are playing, I think they will win the league this season. When Moyes took over, a friend of mine told me that they would get to 19 before we got to 21. I though the guys was nuts!

Moyes is going to get another season, unfortunately we're just gonna have to accept it. I personally don't want it either, but would be happy if I was proven wrong next season and we're challenging on all fronts. If worst comes to worst however and we see the same dross, I'm just looking for some positives in the sense that it will be a lesson learned which won't let us become like liverpool, and suffer years of being unable to fix the problem. Just to clarify my position on the situation.

Haha, can't blame you mate, when he said we aspire to play like city , I had a shock in my body but we can't do much. My stance on this whole issue is that I will support the players and not get involved in some stupid stunts like flying plane and supporting those stunts. Honestly I don't know why hut deep inside my heart I still feel (only10% ) that moyes may manage to do better next season. But how much better is the question. If we perform the same next November or December then we fans have nothing to do because I believe in the board that they will sack him . But right now I am excited to see kagawa and. Mata in action together.

There's a flipside to that coin. I have no time to get into a discussion now, but sponsorship deals are only the tip of the iceberg. There are other important things the Glazers must worry about, and two seasons of mediocrity can't help, whichever way you look at it.

That banner was embarrassing!! This is Manchester United; been dominating for 21 years - and going through a tough period, no doubt, however, Moyes replaces SIR ALEX FERGUSON, i.e., GOD. Give hm time. A flying banner......., embarrassing indeed. The morons who did it should have donated that money to Fletcher's charity. Suprised the idiots managed to spell the banner correctly.

When the season started and Liverpool won their first game, I posted they'd not looked that good in years (got rid of that clown Reina, bought positive, attacking players, changed their mentality) and that I could see them competing, but I got laughed at by the likes certain posters who are now the most vocal supporters of Moyes. Coincidence?

Like I say, I think the owners, the boardroom and the manager have been given a wake-up call, including fergie and its been overdue. Its a lesson I feel these owners will not try again in a heart beat in their dealings with our transfers. Thinking they can go into every summer being arrogant has hell, that you do not need to fully strengthen a squad and still expect to compete, without grave consequences for theirr actions sooner or later. Between may 2009 to September 2013, the club in general have gone into every summer, not keeping up with our rivals at home and abroad, with players needed to be sort out a few years ago, with area's that hit the wall a few years back. All this club did was? rely on ageing players to get them by, and it worked out during those 4 summers of 2009 2010 2011 and 2012, we got 2 league titles, a champions league final and hey, this model is working, they did it again in 2013 under a new management, one season to many and it bite them in the ass so hard, you can see them working harder to get these transfers done. They know now, this is probably one of many the biggest summers of the clubs history in years, probably decades.

We needed a season like this to wake these owners and the board members like woodward up, that no you cannot cut corners on transfers, thinking you can get by with a squad getting patched up every summer has it ages in quality, you got to keep up maintenance or you will fall behind your rivals. You will get some pretty brutal beatings that have happened with Liverpool city and Chelsea, because they have left a squad to regress to the extreme, do some pretty dire dealings in the summer of 2013, sooner or later trouble will come right at your doorstep, and our judgement day had come finally. And now this club is working and making sure, we get a squad we deserve, because for far too long this squad has deteriorated. This season is the consequences of 4 years in the making, that started to the day CR7 wa sold, and we did not use that money to invest in the squad

Liverpool play the most attractive football from the bunch. Seeing them win the league could do SAFs head in enough to reconsider what's he's done by appointing Moyes and possibly turning on that decision himself. Can you imagine them winning back to back titles and doing well in Europe next season.. That would be a nice addition to our predicament wouldn't it..

I think if they beat City, and I have no doubt they have the belief they are better, the will win the league.
It's not a question of Can they, it's will they.

@ash by my calculations if we had won the games you mention we would be first with 72 pts. Or at least close. So yes those games killed the season. I blame Moyes attempt to hold on to leads or not lose/concede which never works well.

There must be some truth to the rumours of van Gaal, Ancellotti etc. Levy apparently flew to van Gaal's home to finalize a deal. The board and Glazers showed up well before Olympiakos match, presumably to discuss a new coach/direction. the newspapers also say Sir Alex will not weigh in to the decision. If the Glazers and board are NOT developing a contingency plan just in case, then it would be a sign of gross incompetence.

Question I have for those who want to give Moyes more time- if he buys some players and we perform at this same level next year and his time is up by say January 2015, how will you get a good top level manager then? Seems to me you have to wait til summer 2015 and miss possibly another year of champs league with increased payouts of 50 million and risk a downward spiral that is harder and harder to recover from. Just interested in the thought process of other reds

Nice summary Scott but no real analytical meat there. Would like to have heard your detailed thoughts on Kags, Fellani, Young and the formation and tactics used (including the flat defensive line and flat line playing style). Plus it was clear the scoreline flattered us Villa missed chance after chance.

Would also like to hear your thoughts on the fans at OT who want Moyes Out but keep supporting him to keep up appearances. You called for Moyes to go. How do you see that happening and do your sources at OT indicate any chance of that this summer?

I find is staggering that Moyes is trying to make it look like both Martinez and Pep have been dealt a better hand that poor him.

With Everton he said it was a team that could pretty much play without a manager after he left and no doubt he will try to take credit for Martinez successes.

For Pep, he talks as if getting the Champions of England is a pauper team compared to the Champions of Germany - i.e. already making excuses and lowering expectations.

I also love the way he has thrown SAF under the bus. SAF I am sure for the second time (post Rock of Gibralter) is regretting mixing business with pleasure. Moyes cannot be what he expected. SAF said he wanted to leave the team in the best possible condition with the right blend of youth and experience and he that he had done that. How can we call him the greatest manager and discount his view in favour of Moyes defeatism and denigration of players.

Opik Bidin - what, are you Cleverley's uncle, or something?
He's too cautious and he disappears. When we are trying to push forwards, he slows it up and gives it back to the centerbacks.

On another note, I agree with Scott that that was weird behaviour from Chicharito.
He has no reason to feel hard done by.
The other three strikers are superior to him, and because of that it's hard to get a sniff.
Perhaps if he wasn't offside for 75% of the passes he receives, he might be given more opportunities.
I think he needs to be released from his misery and sold to a team that will appreciate him. He really needs to play.

I think Moyes is absolutely correct to not overplay him. Several top players we have seen overplayed and then blown out with injuries that failed to sort themselves.

I am a bit surprised at the number of games he was sat on the bench, but think our failure to dominate those games is part of the calculus. Build the lads confidence knowing it will set him in good stead when he is, inevitably, blamed by the press or fans for some poor performance.

It's just that Clev is like Kagawa and Mata. Just read the kagawa and Mata bashing because they "didn't" fulfill their potential, which is true considering how they played before Mata moved to the no.10 position in recent weeks and kagawa played briliantly at no.10 and LW with Mata.

Just look at Mata and Kagawa shunted to the wings, forced to be a traditional winger with speed and beating their own man. Of course they try to mark their own game by drifting everywhere. But it doesn't help as soon as they pass the ball, the other player just hoof it or do a crossfield pass to the wings. one thing that makes me sad and angry is when Kagawa or Mata asks for the ball in tight situations, they were rarely given and the other player choose to pass backwards or sideways.

It's a very similar story for Cleverley.He has his weakness, like he can't do accurate long passes (most players don't have it), not physical enough and is not suited in a 2 man midfield. The craziness of SAF which is continued by Moyes (bar some odd games here and there) is amplyfying Cleverley's weakness and masking his stregth, which includes quick short passes and high movement.

Cleverley was
1. continually played in a 2 man midfield of a rigid 442, which further amplifies his physical weakness. I think even Xavi and Iniesta will look out of place in a 2 man midfield of a rigid 442.

2. Asked to cover so much ground. We can see this from the setup. a. Carrick drops deep becoming the third CB, b. the fullbacks and wingers hug the touchline. c. The strikers (Rooney, RVP and Chicha) likes to just stay up front. And then in the middle, there we have a lonely Cleverley.

By having very far players, this further amplifies his inability for a longpass and hides his ability to play quick short passes. Wanna try a long pass? will be mainly overhit or underhit. Wanna try go through by himself? he's not strong physically and will face 2-3 opponent players, depending on the system the opposition uses, 2 or 3 man midfield.

so what's the option he choose? of course sideways and backwards.

3. Having a not so creative no.10. This is for Rooney and Welbeck as the no.10 if we "try" to play 4231. With Rooney, it's always a bad touch, losing the ball, and Cleverley will be there to mop up. See the spurs and Stoke game where Cleverley was so busy moping up Rooney's inability to have a good first touch and keep the ball. not to mention how often Rooney do that crossfield to Valencia instead doing a shortpass that Cleverley wants.

The same can be said to Welbeck, although in Welbeck's case it's more because of his directness to quickly go to the goal rather than try doing some possession and playmaking first. welb is a much more better version of Rooney in the no.10 position.

4. Hoof-Hoof-Hoof. sideways and backwards.
Clev is a pass and move type, pass, moves than pass, then move again. Unforstunately the others are hoofers and pass sideways and backwards whenever he get's into a good position. The bad thing is, this "disease" is also affecting him. look how he was so unwilling to pass forward to the no.10, either Mata or Kagawa because according to his experience with Rooney, they will lose the ball (which is not true).

One match that particularly caught my interest is the spurs away game that ended 2-2. we started good with a no.10(Kagawa). Clev-Jones behind Kag was good, so much high pressure, able to pin back spurs.

Unfortunately, the CB's( I think it was Vidic) can't play a highline. Evra was turned inside out by Lennon, and Welbeck can't just stay to his duties, crashing with kagawa everytime and letting Walker free. So the usual Welbeck-Rooney alternating at no.10 continues.

We should look into the future and base our play on players that are our future. forget 442. a 433/4231/4141 is the way forward.

As we have Kagawa-Mata-Januzaj as our main strength, we should amplify it. and Cleverley who is quite versatile, likes quick short passes, is one of those amplifiers

I only saw the last 30 minutes against Villa but I thought Fellaini was excellent.
It was a breath of fresh air to see a United player move into space and offer himself
to receive a pass and opposed to playing a pass and standing still. Mata does it too.
I've always wondered why we haven't been doing it so much over the last few seasons.

Great result against Villa on Saturday. Results like that are what we expect at Old Trafford. Although Chelsea and City losing ground has put a dampener on the result. Liverpool are looking strong and in a good position. It is beyond my imagination thinking Liverpool will win the league. It would be the worst outcome possible. I could sadly expect City, Chelsea or Arsenal keeping it warm for a couple of seasons but it physically makes me sick at the thought of Liverpool holding our trophy. Lets hope our noisy neighbors turn them over. Personally I would prefer Chelski to win it but that isn't looking likely.