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Yeah...See, I can't even vote yet. People ask me why do I care this much then. Well, simply, the country needs more people who care about their government.
Not only that, but as I'm 17, I do have 18 year old friends that can vote. I can certainly try to sway their votes.
The first friend, a Democrat, I was able to easily change his vote to Jill Stein. It doesn't matter a whole lot, but it does help Stein get the 5% popular vote she's aiming for.
The second was all ready shaky in his support of Obama. Though like me, he doesn't like Romney much at all. I managed to get him to look into 3rd parties. He ended up going with Johnson rather than Stein, but at least it isn't Robama/Obamney.
The third I'm still working on. She's Republican, but her opinions are seriously beginning to wain with all this sexism, pro-life, and apparent blame of violence in our society on single parent households. Which she lives in. It's strange to see a child of a single parent household, pro-choice, and, well, female, be that Republican, but then again, I've almost swayed her vote. Though she's stubborn, lol.
Though in all cases, I encourage them to look up info on their own.

Spoiler:- Random Rant I had with a Substitute Teacher:

Eh, I just had a very long argument with a substitute teacher. Well, it was a debate really, not an argument. We respected each other at least.
He was a traditional Republican, he had traditional views, he is a strong-willed, right-field Christian.
I'm more of a Center-Left Independent. Atheist. You can see how we'd differ in opinion, lol.

I started of saying that while I'm more 3rd party, I'd rather have Obama over Romney.
He says that he doesn't want Obama since he hadn't done anything he promised, and that Romney had a perfect track record.
I said no, he's done plenty of things that people don't realize. He said, even still, Romney has done everything he promised as Gov of Mass. He also said that people had to look back to his high schools years to find out that the only he's done is pressure a kid into having a haircut--which supposedly didn't happen.
I cited the source someone said in here--about the bully against a supposed gay--though he passed it off as make believe. I told him it wasnt, but I also included the sotries about Obama's shaky teen years as well, because I'm not entirely Democratic anyways.

The arguments didn't really get started until we started talking about rights.
It began when I told him Stein wanted the legalization of marijuana. I told him it only made sense:
1) Taxing it would create a strong source of revenue for the government to at least start fighting the debt. i.e. several billion dollars. may not seem a lot compared to the trillions of debt we have, but hey, it's something.
2) It'd lower the amount of people tempted to do it. It works off the whole curiosity thing. If it's legal, then it's not a 'taboo' thing.
I also said it not really all that bad. He said that it's shown to lower intelligence, but then again, so does alcohol. He agreed on that. So I managed to sway him on that bi, though he wasn't totally against in the beginning, only partially. He said "And you know, it's just another thing that the election winner will have to deal in his presidency, most likely."
I remarked that Gay Rights would be as well.
He asked what rights did gay people not already have.
I said, well, for one, they can't get married. He said it wasn't a civil right though. He asked my position on it, and I'm pro-gay marriage.
I said that the only argument against not allowing gays to marry is from the Bible. He said that's all thats needed, since the country was founded on Christian privileges -- under God.
As an atheist, I obviously through that argument down the garbage chute. He said that a marriage is between a man and a women. I ask whose definition that is, and of course he brings the bible back up.
I mean, I don't understand why people can't just let them be happy. What did they ever do to you? I mean, I have two gay friends, and my godfather is gay. They dude who I was arguing with had gay family members! He said being gay really messed up their life. Uh...And their life would be different if they were straight how exactly? In terms of financial success anyways.
He also agreed that the Electoral College is absolutely broken and would be better off abolished.
Though in the end, he still respected my ability to talk about politics this much. He says I must have been thinking about it a lot.
That's all I usually have to do really. Think. He says people need to do more of that, lol.

Huh. Count Chick-fil-A among the companies that gained attention for something involving free speech, in this case, biblical marriage… and my family and yours truly among the people who bought food from that restaurant on the designated week out of solidarity with it for that precise stance. Dan Cathy gave the interview with the Southern Baptist Convention’s news service, and the number of customers who visited Chick-fil-A throughout this past month rose 2.2%. If it helps, the restaurant’s advertisements also went up by 6.5%, while it’s choosing to remain out of the political spotlight and concentrate on serving good chicken nuggets and sandwiches, French fries, soda, and so on, for the most part. I might opine that encouraging free speech by companies worldwide would be a very good thing for public discourse, especially given the trends I’ve been tracking. For all that this is worth, David Goldman had a term for the overall agenda that he favored for this country as these cultural collapses progress throughout this century, Augustinian realism, which I consider an enhancement of Charles Krauthammer’s democratic realism. This new doctrine could have the following components, with my own interpretations.:

• Support any individuals and groups that accept and actively work for the United States’ foundational principles. (my examples: Anglosphere, Germany, Poland, Israel, South Sudan, India, Japan, bronies)
• Ignore, seal off, or defeat any individuals and groups that reject and actively work against the United States’ foundational principles. (my examples: Golden Dawn, Islam, Chinese Communists, Russia)

To go by these examples, any mapmakers attempting to study North Africa and the Middle East might well need medicine for headaches as quickly as possible. If drawing the Sharia supremacists and any other enemies of the United States out of hiding and letting them fight each other in their own backyard(s) matches this basic yet comprehensive policy, then Syria and Iraq may have been the most obvious starting positions for that course of action in that region. Providing weapons to jihadists wouldn’t fit at all, while inciting uproars over obscure trailers supposedly mocking Muhammad may be odder still.:

Nakoula Basseley Nakoula, according to this analysis, was an alias for one Mark Basseley Youssef, who has apparently partnered in the past with one Eiad Salameh, who got the Federal Bureau of Investigation’s attention because he was behind several smuggling and scamming operations worth millions in total for the purpose of assisting Al-Qaeda and the Palestinian Liberation Organization. Jews and Coptic Christians were the real targets, according to this view, and any free speech restrictions undertaken by the Obama administration would be the equivalent of collateral damage. Given these trends, one wonders what Russian President Vladimir Putin’s current project would do to American President Barack Obama’s attempts to “reset” relations with that country.:

Nationalism, with a subset anti-Americanism, and (Eastern) Orthodoxy have been fused under Putin’s banner, in moves that remind some of Iran’s attempts at censorship. There’s even a new agency set up with an open focus on nationalism, even with “ethnic overtones”. Assuming that American President Mitt Romney presses forward after January 20, 2013, we could be seeing a steady three-way confrontation over freedom, modernization, tradition, and apocalypticism quite quickly.

Last edited by ccangelopearl1362; 26th October 2012 at 6:34 AM.

Babylon 5, Codename: Kids Next Door, 24, and now, My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic. I am many things at once, and many people might have different opinions about little, old me. If freedom is my main idea, then harmony, individuality, and modernization are the three attributes I now sense and track. Those three attributes and that idea combined to make the United States of America a great global superpower and Pearlshipping and Wishfulshipping great Pokémon couples, and now, they've combined to make those four shows truly great television programs to me. I will enjoy enthusiastically supporting the Equestrian ponies' adventures for peace, for humankind, for the future.

I have a theory that the Pokémon world and the Mother world are one in the same. I won't go into spoilers for Mother 3, but think of Black and White's story of the dragon and the twins. Also, chimeras are kind of like Pokémon.

Interesting to note that in 2008 when Obama was endorsed by Powell, Rush Limbaugh suggested the SAME thing.

I have no real strong opinion on it -- that's basically what I expected someone to say. It could possibly be seen as a form of dog-whistle statement, but I'm not gonna bother pursuing that line, because pretty much anything could.

It kinda pisses me off also that this cycle is so racially-charged. It's the twenty-first goddamned century. If you're still reacting to a person of race X a certain way just because they're of race X, you're, at best, barely credible.

I have no real strong opinion on it -- that's basically what I expected someone to say. It could possibly be seen as a form of dog-whistle statement, but I'm not gonna bother pursuing that line, because pretty much anything could.

It kinda pisses me off also that this cycle is so racially-charged. It's the twenty-first goddamned century. If you're still reacting to a person of race X a certain way just because they're of race X, you're, at best, barely credible.

But we have Palin's "shuck and jive" comment on Libya not too long ago. We have conservative media being desperate to find any dirt on Obama to make him look like an angry black man who is racist. Like the time they used Obama's 2007 speech against him to counter Romney's 47 percent comments but the problem is... the SAME video was already used last election. It's part of the Southern Strategy.

But we have Palin's "shuck and jive" comment on Libya not too long ago.

Which is not a racist comment.

Originally Posted by Silver Soul

We have conservative media being desperate to find any dirt on Obama to make him look like an angry black man who is racist. Like the time they used Obama's 2007 speech against him to counter Romney's 47 percent comments but the problem is... the SAME video was already used last election. It's part of the Southern Strategy.

That would be incorrect as the full video did not come out until recently.

That would be incorrect as the full video did not come out until recently.

The same video was already reused anyway. Nothing more than a desperate attempt by the coalition of Drudge, Hannity, and Tucker Carlson as they slammed Obama for the kind of language used. It's pretty much race-baiting and it provided LITTLE effect against Obama.

The same video was already reused anyway. Nothing more than a desperate attempt by the coalition of Drudge, Hannity, and Tucker Carlson as they slammed Obama for the kind of language used. It's pretty much race-baiting and it provided LITTLE effect against Obama.

Excerpts, the full video was not released until recently, there is a massive difference between excerpts and a full video.

But we have [Sarah] Palin's "shuck and jive" comment on Libya not too long ago. We have conservative media being desperate to find any dirt on Obama to make him look like an angry black man who is racist. Like the time they used Obama's 2007 speech against him to counter Romney's 47 percent comments but the problem is... the SAME video was already used last election. It's part of the Southern Strategy.

I bolded the important part. Now maybe it's just me, but Palin is pretty damned hard to take seriously in general. I mean, I know some people do, but people also thought Obama was a "Secret Muslim." Which is kind of a hard thing to keep secret.

Originally Posted by BigLutz

Jay Carney ( White House Press Secretary ): "Sorry. I'm going to shuck and jive! Time to shuck and jive."

Mind you it has long meant to lie or fool around, something that works in the context of Palin's remark and Jay Carney's remark.

Fair enough. I think that it has a sound of racial sniping (if not "shuck" then certainly jive). Possibly intentional on the ex-veep-candidate in terms of tone. As we've seen here, even if it doesn't have a definite racial undertone (I don't think there's much point in arguing about that, it's just gonna be back-and-forth with little backing), it does guide thoughts.

Originally Posted by Silver Soul

And conservatives criticized him but we can't criticized Palin for that? I supposed you are going to defend Ann Coulter's tweet of her calling Obama a retard then.

I think it's at least kinda fair, or at least understandable, to snipe them for it. They say that their opponents can't use term X but they use it themselves. Do they expect to get away without a remark? (Granted, I also didn't hear about Carney using the term anyway, which clearly means that I only care around election season.)

As for Ann Coulter calling Obama a retard... never mind your opinions on her using the word, there is no way he could be. He may be wrong, but he at least has decent capacity for thought. Just coming to a wrong conclusion doesn't make a person "a retard." Not to mention his PR, assuming that was his idea. Can you really say that someone who knows how to gin up a crowd is a "retard?" Even if it's for the wrong reasons, when done in a non-spontaneous way, it's pretty much guaranteed to be deeply calculated.

And conservatives criticized him but we can't criticized Palin for that? I supposed you are going to defend Ann Coulter's tweet of her calling Obama a retard then.

I don't think you will find Conservatives criticizing his use of Shuck and Jive before people jumped on Palin. As for Ann Coulter I think she should apologize, right after every single left winger that called Bush a retard apologizes.

Originally Posted by Silver Soul

You know, George W. Bush's speech from 2005 did echoed Obama's concerning the New Orleans.

Really, where in Bush's speech was a "Where's your dollar" line like in Obama's?

Even if I did, you would try to divert the attention away from Palin so you can focus on Carney. At least he wasn't using it in context against an African-American since he was referring to forgetting his notebook.

What does that have to do with anything?

Don't play dumb. Hannity and Carlson were about Obama talking black but Romney was talking black too to court black voters.

Even if I did, you would try to divert the attention away from Palin so you can focus on Carney. At least he wasn't using it in context against an African-American since he was referring to forgetting his notebook.

"I'm not going to do it because it doesn't matter." Isn't that sort of what democrats have been doing for a while and gave them the reputation for having no spine?

Don't play dumb. Hannity and Carlson were about Obama talking black but Romney was talking black too to court black voters.

I'm kind of curious as to specific statements they were remarking on that Hannity and Carlson considered "talking black." Because I can't say that I've ever heard anything that sounds like he was "talking black." Probably just the usual on their parts. Or maybe they actually just generically didn't understand him for other reasons entirely.

"I'm not going to do it because it doesn't matter." Isn't that sort of what democrats have been doing for a while and gave them the reputation for having no spine?

Either that, or the whole mantra of "Liberals hate America" being said more often past years.

I'm kind of curious as to specific statements they were remarking on that Hannity and Carlson considered "talking black." Because I can't say that I've ever heard anything that sounds like he was "talking black." Probably just the usual on their parts. Or maybe they actually just generically didn't understand him for other reasons entirely.

Here you go. It was supposed to be the "trump card" against Obama's 2012 campaign.

"Did you notice the change in the way he delivered the speech, before a predominantly African American audience?" Hannity asked Carlson. He then played footage of Obama's famed speech on race in 2008 on a split-screen with the 2007 speech, just to show the difference.

"They're speaking different languages," Carlson said of the two Obamas. "Different cadences, different accents, different gestures -- I mean, the falseness here is overwhelming."

To go by these developments, it looks like racialism and tribalism are the words of the day for not just the United States, but also the Middle East, all under President Barack Obama’s administration. Eid Al-Adha is supposedly around the corner, and the United Nations, mercifully for them, has wanted to keep things as calm as possible to allow Muslims to proceed with whatever commemorations they deem necessary for this event. Needless to say, if the militias constituting the Free Syrian Army and any remaining military units following orders from Bashar Al-Assad got the memo, then several skirmishes appear to have blasted it to shreds. Statements from the likes of the Al-Nusra Front – a group of jihadists, at that – probably fuel the view that a full, if disorganized, conflict is underway, making the racial polarization here in America all the more troublesome to yours truly, with the following margins.:

Uh-huh. Well, I suppose modernization could sour at least some of these voters’ prospects, leaving Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan to devise an agenda of comprehensive change, ensuring the steady position of the United States in contrast to those collapsing cultures worldwide. Then again, if various reports from the ground in Minnesota steadily trickle out, then there could be a new urgency to focus on information as a cornerstone for a 21st century American society. If any political figures could assist Romney-Ryan campaign efforts wherever Minnesotans might head these last few days in October, then my bets would go to Michele Bachmann and Tim Pawlenty, citing this presidency’s penchant for government intervention all over the place. I’d wonder what would happen if the new ugly twists surrounding the attack in Benghazi managed to seep into the general consciousness of Minnesotans, Floridians, Ohioans, Texans, and other Americans nationwide.:

What a mess. Al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb and Al-Qaeda in Iraq were reportedly among the main groups attacking Ambassador Chris Stevens and his team. The aforementioned Al-Nusra Front is affiliated with Al-Qaeda in Iraq, which makes its current operations against Assad look more like blowback… and Iraq, Syria, and Libya look like a network for these Sharia terrorists. In the meantime, Al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb is stirring up chaos in Mali with its own calls for “jihad fi sabilillah”, and tourist abductions constitute one of its main revenue sources. As one might guess, my mind ended up tying itself into something close to a pretzel trying to figure out what could possibly justify an order for Central Intelligence Agency operators attempting to secure Stevens’ position to “stand down” twice in the face of this type of attack. The operators had visual contact with the terrorists targeting the complex, right alongside the drones sending real-time surveillance back to Washington, D.C., to inform the White House and the State and Defense Departments about the terrorists’ movements. If anyone has any ideas regarding these new reports, I’m all ears, but I’d imagine that Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan are scratching their heads, to say the very least, over this report.

Babylon 5, Codename: Kids Next Door, 24, and now, My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic. I am many things at once, and many people might have different opinions about little, old me. If freedom is my main idea, then harmony, individuality, and modernization are the three attributes I now sense and track. Those three attributes and that idea combined to make the United States of America a great global superpower and Pearlshipping and Wishfulshipping great Pokémon couples, and now, they've combined to make those four shows truly great television programs to me. I will enjoy enthusiastically supporting the Equestrian ponies' adventures for peace, for humankind, for the future.

Even if I did, you would try to divert the attention away from Palin so you can focus on Carney. At least he wasn't using it in context against an African-American since he was referring to forgetting his notebook.

So its not the phrase that is in and of itself racist, but the fact that a black person is added to it, even though the context is the exact same, is that not in and of itself racist?

Originally Posted by Silver Soul

Don't play dumb. Hannity and Carlson were about Obama talking black but Romney was talking black too to court black voters.

No that honestly has nothing to do with what I am talking about. You said Bush used the same things in his speech about New Orleans. One of the most controversial things is Obama suggesting that the Government is racist in terms of giving out federal aid.

As witty and cleverly played as Obama's "Bayonets and horses" comment was, I found it lacking any teeth. Large battleships still have an important niche in the American military, to imply that they have a waning influence in the same way that mounted calvalry does is simply not accurate.

This what conservatives mean when they tout things like "Obamas a good orator" but a sub-par politician. People all too often confuse wit and a sharp tongue with truth, which is a shame really.

As witty and cleverly played as Obama's "Bayonets and horses" comment was, I found it lacking any teeth. Large battleships still have an important niche in the American military, to imply that they have a waning influence in the same way that mounted calvalry does is simply not accurate.

Actually, according to my friend(whose in the Navy), US Battleships are all be decommissioned. Sure, they're powerful, but they're so costly and slow that we have no place for them. We still aircraft carriers and Destroyers and stuff, but no by the book battleships.

While this is something of a spin-off Brutaka is correct that battleships are not used anymore let alone the old Dreadnoughts. Destroyers and Cruisers provide the firepower of the fleet now a days. Having said this I'm rather fond of the navy and see it as the branch most likely to see action in the future. We should not defund the navy at this point in time. I am certain there is room for cuts within the military I just do not see cutting the navy in any substantial way as a smart more at present. Also in the next day or two I'll give another poll analysis.

The one thing that does not abide by majority rule is a person's conscience

To Kill A Mockingbird

It is no matter, let Hercules himself do what he may, the cat will mew, and dog will have his day.

To answer the original question of the thread, I'm a Green party member, and I voted (absentee, I'm at college) for Obama, because as much as I'd like to see President Jill Stein, it's more important to ensure we don't see President Romney, and really President Obama has been pretty good.

Now, as to why I say Obama is a better president in any way than Romney is simple. Romney has no spine. Many Mormon Bishops from the 50s up until the church dropped its racist teachings (the Mormon church held from Brigham Young, its second leader, that Black men were unable to be priests, and should not even be members, and it was because their dark skin was the mark of Cain) in '78 were willing to agitate within the church and vocally that its policy of racial exclusion was wrong and should be altered, but Romney, who held some decent sway, refused to.

Romney also protested in favor of the draft during Vietnam, meanwhile leaving for France on his Mormon mission trip to avoid it (the question of his deferral status is extremely unclear, but it is a mark of pure hypocrisy to protest in favor of something happening to others, then dodging the very same thing yourself).

And there's the issue of Bain Capital. Where to start with that. Aside from the fact that it is a business that makes its money by moving money, essentially (buying companies, chopping them up, rearranging them, and sending a good chunk overseas isn't exactly productive), there's the issue of Sensata. A plant in the midwest that was putting up stellar profits. In fact, its Q3 reports came out and showed.... profit. So what's Bain doing? Shipping the company overseas, forcing the current employees to train the workers who will replace them in China, and threatening to make the move immediately instead of at the end of the year if they keep trying to make noise about it. Romney is still a major stockholder in the company, and as founder, ex-CEO, and a presidential candidate, he could easily apply a lot of pressure to halt the move. So why doesn't he?

Oh, and just today, Romney outright lied about Jeep. Claimed Jeep was moving its US production to China, when, in fact, Jeep is adding production in China, with no change to its US production.

Now, as for the economy, here's a surprising fact. Under the old Clinton rates on the top, the rich were still getting richer every single day, but the government was running, by the end of his 8 years, a surplus, which Bush quickly squandered through profligate spending on an unnecessary war (I'm referring to Iraq with this, Afghanistan has an unclear value of necessity still), and wasteful tax cuts on the top of the income pile that were not necessary. And heck, since Obama took office, the Dow has doubled, the rate of change of unemployment has changed from increasing to decreasing, and the yearly deficit of the Federal budget has decreased.

Romney would be a terrible president, and would lead America to ruin, whether he means to or not.