Man, everybody has their own definitions of what is or isn't [genre], I'd say just look at wikipedia's or last.fm's definition to get a general idea.

Are you kidding? That's like saying everyone has their own definition of wood. Wikipedia is the last place anyone should be looking for anything related to genres anyways.

K here we go mister pushy, Crust=punks answer to thrash, grindcore=punks answer to death metal, hardcore=punks answer to speed metal goregrind=grindcore with gore lyrics.Mind though thats a bastardized way of explaining it, but the simplest by far.

Are you kidding? That's like saying everyone has their own definition of wood. Wikipedia is the last place anyone should be looking for anything related to genres anyways.

No, I'm not kidding. What I was saying was is that you'll get a different answer depending on who you ask, and instead of spending time linking you to a whole bunch of stuff on YouTube, you yourself can look at a dictionary-esque definition on wikipedia or last.fm as they're not too far off or absurd. Also, the wood comparison is pretty laughable, as wood =/= art, whereas art can give people various impressions that aren't "right" or "wrong". Unless you're inquiring about the genres' historical upbringing, which wasn't specified, then there could be more concrete evidence.

Case in point: I disagree with everything TheEvilSocky just said, but that doesn't mean that he's wrong at all. There are so many different regional styles of the aforementioned genres that there really is not a set answer.

K here we go mister pushy, Crust=punks answer to thrash, grindcore=punks answer to death metal, hardcore=punks answer to speed metal goregrind=grindcore with gore lyrics.Mind though thats a bastardized way of explaining it, but the simplest by far.

I want a musical definition not their historical placement. The way you describe Goregrind means it's exactly the same as Grindcore musically but when you look at bands like 40% Gradi and Pig Destroyer you know lyrics are not what separates them.

Grindcore is basically a punk band trying to play as fast as possible and with lots of metal influence. Over the years it's moved more towards metal.

Hardcore is very loose, almost as loose a term as metal. Old hardcore was simiply more abrasive punk like Bad Brains or Black flag, now it can be anything from Hatebreed or Wolfbrigade.

Goregrind is simply grindcore with an attention to gorey subject matter, much like a lot of older death metal. Usually has a lot of a death metal influence as well.

Crust is dirty punk that often has metal influences and usually promotes a strong DIY ethic and left-wing/anarchist politics.

As dragunov said, these are loose definitions that cna change from band to band, the thing to keep in mind is Hardcore is probably the broadest term there and is the evolution of punk. Grindcore is basically a hybrid of punk and metal, and crust is an offshoot of hardcore as goregrind is an offshoot of grindcore.

Are you kidding? That's like saying everyone has their own definition of wood. Wikipedia is the last place anyone should be looking for anything related to genres anyways.

No, I'm not kidding. What I was saying was is that you'll get a different answer depending on who you ask, and instead of spending time linking you to a whole bunch of stuff on YouTube, you yourself can look at a dictionary-esque definition on wikipedia or last.fm as they're not too far off or absurd. Also, the wood comparison is pretty laughable, as wood =/= art, whereas art can give people various impressions that aren't "right" or "wrong". Unless you're inquiring about the genres' historical upbringing, which wasn't specified, then there could be more concrete evidence.

Case in point: I disagree with everything TheEvilSocky just said, but that doesn't mean that he's wrong at all. There are so many different regional styles of the aforementioned genres that there really is not a set answer.

EDIT: removed my e-temper tantrum

Wikipedia says BFMV and great batch of other garbage is Metal, not to mention things being labeled as "Indie Rock" or "Alternative" so they are not a reliable source for anything regarding music. The analogy was fine though, because there are rules for what makes something wood (this goes for genres too) if there are not rules for genres then do kindly explain why Goatpenis is not Hip-Hop musically. The fact that you will get a different answer from one person to another does not mean there is not a definition, it does not mean that what a genre is changes from person to person, it means one or more does not know what they are talking about unless they say the same thing with different words. Example: What's Thrash Metal? "Oh, that's just NWOBHM with Punk influences" or "Oh, that's when the NWOBHM bands way back when started to embrace the Punk scene and decided to form a whole new genre of their own!" I would also like to point out I am not talking about bands that have influences from other genres like the way you might think the definition of Black Metal changes because of Black/Death Metal bands combining influences.

Are you kidding? That's like saying everyone has their own definition of wood. Wikipedia is the last place anyone should be looking for anything related to genres anyways.

No, I'm not kidding. What I was saying was is that you'll get a different answer depending on who you ask, and instead of spending time linking you to a whole bunch of stuff on YouTube, you yourself can look at a dictionary-esque definition on wikipedia or last.fm as they're not too far off or absurd. Also, the wood comparison is pretty laughable, as wood =/= art, whereas art can give people various impressions that aren't "right" or "wrong". Unless you're inquiring about the genres' historical upbringing, which wasn't specified, then there could be more concrete evidence.

Wikipedia says BFMV and great batch of other garbage is Metal, not to mention things being labeled as "Indie Rock" or "Alternative" so they are not a reliable source for anything regarding music. The analogy was fine though, because there are rules for what makes something wood (this goes for genres too) if there are not rules for genres then do kindly explain why Goatpenis is not Hip-Hop musically. The fact that you will get a different answer from one person to another does not mean there is not a definition, it does not mean that what a genre is changes from person to person, it means one or more does not know what they are talking about unless they say the same thing with different words. Example: What's Thrash Metal? "Oh, that's just NWOBHM with Punk influences" or "Oh, that's when the NWOBHM bands way back when started to embrace the Punk scene and decided to form a whole new genre of their own!" I would also like to point out I am not talking about bands that have influences from other genres like the way you might think the definition of Black Metal changes because of Black/Death Metal bands combining influences.

Druganov is right, Wikipedia is a good place to get information on underground genres like crust, D-Beat, goregrind etc. And he's right in that a lot of people have there own definitions of genres, there are so many varieties within each genre and everyones tastes are differnet so people aren't going to agree 100%. Nobody here gives a fuck about a mainstream band like BFMV so that's a bad example to use, and of course their wikipedia page is going to suck, they're a shitty band and their fans are idiots.

Crust has nothing to do with thrash, you're thinking of "thrashcore" or "crossover". Crust is punk-based riffage with some metal instrumentation and elements, but the main base (i.e. the riffs) relates to punk. The metal influence can vary from being small to being ever present.

TheEvilSocky wrote:

grindcore=punks answer to death metal

Not quite, although the metal-oriented grind tends to lean on death metal. Grindcore was just punk taken to the extreme, even more than crust and early hardcore, and it began to side itself with metal bands a lot due to Napalm Death. But the fact is that there are grindcore bands which have no metal riffs or structure, while others have a lot of extreme metal. That eventually also lead to the "deathgrind" subgenre.

TheEvilSocky wrote:

hardcore=punks answer to speed metal

It's just fast, pissed off and dirty, d-beat styled punk. Although d-beat is a characteristic it doesn't mean that bands which don't use the technique aren't hardcore. A new modern style of hardcore emerged on later years, 90s and 00s which some call "modern hardcore" and is more polished and well produced.

TheEvilSocky wrote:

goregrind=grindcore with gore lyrics.

This has been widely discussed and people here have said many times that there are differences in sound, not only in lyrics. The simplest thing really is to compare FETO with Symphonies Of Sickness, others might get into further detail.

Another post another opinion, hein Dragunov?! Anyway I hope it was helpful.

Druganov is right, Wikipedia is a good place to get information on underground genres like crust, D-Beat, goregrind etc. And he's right in that a lot of people have there own definitions of genres, there are so many varieties within each genre and everyones tastes are differnet so people aren't going to agree 100%. Nobody here gives a fuck about a mainstream band like BFMV so that's a bad example to use, and of course their wikipedia page is going to suck, they're a shitty band and their fans are idiots.

Like I said it's not limited only to BFMV there's a present abundance of diarrhea labeled Metal, anything labeled "Alt-" and "Indie" or any made up Metal genre (Viking Metal, Speed Metal, Funk Metal, Rap Metal etc...). I also pointed out how bands that combine influences do not matter the least bit. Go re-read the whole post again, I shouldn't have to repeat myself when information like that is available.

Dude, I fucking know wikipedia is shit most of the time, so I wouldn't recommend it to you if the definition was way off. Why don't you just listen to a bunch of different hardcore/crust/grind bands and figure the shit out for yourself? Because you're obviously not going to get the answer you're looking for here.

Sanctium wrote:

then do kindly explain why Goatpenis is not Hip-Hop musically

I'm too busy listening to music to give a shit, frankly.

ANYWAYS

I was going to ask if any of you knew of any bands that were similar in style to In Battle/Realm-era Bolt Thrower, but with more blasting going on? Most of the bands in this style are just crust/stenchcore, nothing that really pushes them into "obviously grind" territory.

Dude, I fucking know wikipedia is shit most of the time, so I wouldn't recommend it to you if the definition was way off. Why don't you just listen to a bunch of different hardcore/crust/grind bands and figure the shit out for yourself? Because you're obviously not going to get the answer you're looking for here.

Sanctium wrote:

then do kindly explain why Goatpenis is not Hip-Hop musically

I'm too busy listening to music to give a shit, frankly.

If Wikipedia actually had the right information it wouldn't matter anyways because I'm asking for a simple definition, not a ballsack of leads to an unreliable website or to learn anything about its historical placement. I ask at all because I don't like it (but would like the knowledge of what defines it which said originally) and don't want to have to go through a whole bunch of shitty bands when someone with an I.Q. above room temperature that does like it can just say "Goregrind is...." "Hardcore is...." and not get mad because they failed to provide anything useful. I also don't understand how you "don't give a shit" and but "give a shit" enough to quote the last part at all, or how it voids you from explaining something so elementary...unless you know I was right.

@ Sanctium - Have you read my post above? It provides what you ask to some extent. Although, and to take Dragunov's side a bit, Wiki or RYM definitions on those genres are quite accurate. People always piss on Wikipedia but they forget that a lot of the info there is actually valid.

Dragunov wrote:

I was going to ask if any of you knew of any bands that were similar in style to In Battle/Realm-era Bolt Thrower, but with more blasting going on? Most of the bands in this style are just crust/stenchcore, nothing that really pushes them into "obviously grind" territory.

Druganov is right, Wikipedia is a good place to get information on underground genres like crust, D-Beat, goregrind etc. And he's right in that a lot of people have there own definitions of genres, there are so many varieties within each genre and everyones tastes are differnet so people aren't going to agree 100%. Nobody here gives a fuck about a mainstream band like BFMV so that's a bad example to use, and of course their wikipedia page is going to suck, they're a shitty band and their fans are idiots.

Like I said it's not limited only to BFMV there's a present abundance of diarrhea labeled Metal, anything labeled "Alt-" and "Indie" or any made up Metal genre (Viking Metal, Speed Metal, Funk Metal, Rap Metal etc...). I also pointed out how bands that combine influences do not matter the least bit. Go re-read the whole post again, I shouldn't have to repeat myself when information like that is available.

Your reply has nothing to do with what I wrote. Go re-read the whole post again, I shouldn't have to repeat myself when information like that is available.

Your reply has nothing to do with what I wrote. Go re-read the whole post again, I shouldn't have to repeat myself when information like that is available.

I'll dumb it down for you:

You: "Something about why Wikipedia is Okay."Me: "Why it's not."You: "Something about why bands with varying influences matter (ex:Black/Death Metal.)"Me: "I only want a definition for one genre not mixes and hybrids."You: "A rant on a band that doesn't matter and irrelevant information."

@ Sanctium - Have you read my post above? It provides what you ask to some extent. Although, and to take Dragunov's side a bit, Wiki or RYM definitions on those genres are quite accurate. People always piss on Wikipedia but they forget that a lot of the info there is actually valid.

That's exactly what I was looking for, not leads to other websites and yada yada yada

You: "Something about why Wikipedia is Okay."Me: "Why it's not."You: "Something about why bands with varying influences matter (ex:Black/Death Metal.)"Me: "I only want a definition for one genre not mixes and hybrids."You: "A rant on a band that doesn't matter and irrelevant information."

Now tell me, did you read the post at all?

It's funny how you say you'll dumb it down for me, when everything we've told you has gone right over your head. Why is something like wikipedia not okay, while metal-archives is okay? You seem to not like wikipedia because you disagree with some peoples opinions on there. Do you realize that normal everyday people post information on wikipedia, just like with metal-archives. The people who wrote the BFMV page are not the same people who wrote the grindcore and crust pages. BFMV and all the other wikipedia pages you mentioned have nothing to do with the grindcore, crust etc pages. It's just like how metal-archives works. Why is this so hard for you to understand? And Druganov also mentioned last.fm yet you only flipped out on wikipedia. Information on last.fm or any other user based site has just as much chance of being incorrect as wikipedia has.

"I only want a definition for one genre, not mixes and hybrids." Do you not remember your original question? You asked what Hardcore, grindcore, goregrind, crust are. We're trying to explain it and give you sites with good information but you're being very stubborn. You must be new to extreme music or else you would have known that they are all hybrids and mixes of other genres. Is it really too hard to just go to youtube, listen to some songs and find out first hand?

Crust has nothing to do with thrash, you're thinking of "thrashcore" or "crossover". Crust is punk-based riffage with some metal instrumentation and elements, but the main base (i.e. the riffs) relates to punk. The metal influence can vary from being small to being ever present.

TheEvilSocky wrote:

grindcore=punks answer to death metal

Not quite, although the metal-oriented grind tends to lean on death metal. Grindcore was just punk taken to the extreme, even more than crust and early hardcore, and it began to side itself with metal bands a lot due to Napalm Death. But the fact is that there are grindcore bands which have no metal riffs or structure, while others have a lot of extreme metal. That eventually also lead to the "deathgrind" subgenre.

TheEvilSocky wrote:

hardcore=punks answer to speed metal

It's just fast, pissed off and dirty, d-beat styled punk. Although d-beat is a characteristic it doesn't mean that bands which don't use the technique aren't hardcore. A new modern style of hardcore emerged on later years, 90s and 00s which some call "modern hardcore" and is more polished and well produced.

TheEvilSocky wrote:

goregrind=grindcore with gore lyrics.

This has been widely discussed and people here have said many times that there are differences in sound, not only in lyrics. The simplest thing really is to compare FETO with Symphonies Of Sickness, others might get into further detail.

Another post another opinion, hein Dragunov?! Anyway I hope it was helpful.

Ok I think you guy's got my "answer to" wrong, I meant it as in "crust is related to punk the same way thrash is related to metal" you know two different side's to the coin, do you get it know or do I need to do a play by play?

You don't need to get your panties in a bunch, I wasn't attacking you but rather "correcting" some minor mistakes in your factual appreciation of said genres. And yes I get what you mean, although I disagree with your simplified view of things. I don't see Amebix as punk's other side of the coin on metal's thrash, but then again even crust has many different types of bands. Hell, modern Swedish crust is almost death metal in style but with punk beats and riffs! For grind vs death I can somewhat agree on your view, although I think that both genres evolved simultaneously and together. Not in a "this is punk" vs "this is metal" kind of scenario. But, you know, this is just my opinion which doesn't invalidate yours so you don't need to get stressed out about my remarks.

You: "Something about why Wikipedia is Okay."Me: "Why it's not."You: "Something about why bands with varying influences matter (ex:Black/Death Metal.)"Me: "I only want a definition for one genre not mixes and hybrids."You: "A rant on a band that doesn't matter and irrelevant information."

Now tell me, did you read the post at all?

It's funny how you say you'll dumb it down for me, when everything we've told you has gone right over your head. Why is something like wikipedia not okay, while metal-archives is okay? You seem to not like wikipedia because you disagree with some peoples opinions on there. Do you realize that normal everyday people post information on wikipedia, just like with metal-archives. The people who wrote the BFMV page are not the same people who wrote the grindcore and crust pages. BFMV and all the other wikipedia pages you mentioned have nothing to do with the grindcore, crust etc pages. It's just like how metal-archives works. Why is this so hard for you to understand? And Druganov also mentioned last.fm yet you only flipped out on wikipedia. Information on last.fm or any other user based site has just as much chance of being incorrect as wikipedia has.

"I only want a definition for one genre, not mixes and hybrids." Do you not remember your original question? You asked what Hardcore, grindcore, goregrind, crust are. We're trying to explain it and give you sites with good information but you're being very stubborn. You must be new to extreme music or else you would have known that they are all hybrids and mixes of other genres. Is it really too hard to just go to youtube, listen to some songs and find out first hand?

If by "over your head" you mean pointing giving indirect answers because you just can't admit you don't know what they are but still want to "help" then yes. It doesn't take much to edit Wikipedia and I would think it certain that the people that frequent this sticky have far more knowledge and experience with it. You're right they're the same people that said BFMV is Metal it's the same website with tons and tons of false information, at least here something will be called "Metal"core not "Heavy Metal." There is a world of difference. And I do realize he mentioned last.fm but that is just too obviously retarded to even bother with because they both suck for the same reasons. You telling me to go to a site does not help, if you wanted to help (because you knew what those things were) you would say what they are and not send someone on a hunt for information. It's incredibly simple and you're thinking way too much about it the question when all I wanted was "This genre is this, that genre is that blah blah blah." And no, I'm not new I can tell you either didn't read the last post, didn't understand the last post, or have just run out of things to whine about and are grasping at straws. When I say I wanted a definition for a genre and you say it varies because there's so many bands with so many influences, you'd have to be fucking retarded to not get that they all have similar things in common. Since I don't like the music at all (like I said but you failed to understand/read or whatever), I shouldn't have to go through so many bands to find what those things are, because someone can do it for me (again what I said in the last post that you didn't get.) I really don't get how asking for a simple answer is being stubborn, you just seem mad because you don't want to admit you didn't understand the original request or couldn't answer it in the simplest radical form like anyone that really knew what they were talking about could.