In Spain, Fascism Is The New Black

How many of you have heard of the People’s Party in Spain? How many of you have even a rudimentary understanding of Spanish politics? No-one? That’s OK, I’ll give you a primer: Spain is going fascist.

You think I’m exaggerating? Well, keep reading and if you still disagree after you’ve finished, leave a comment.

Let’s start with the basics: The People’s Party is the ruling party in Spain, elected in 2011. They won a majority of the seats in the Spanish parliament, and so they don’t need any coalition partners – in other words, they do as they please. Outside of Spain, the PP is often referred to as a christian, conservative party. As nice as that would be (christian conservatives rarely get to govern in Europe), it’s very far from the truth: The People’s Party was founded by former members of the Franco government – the totalitarian fascist government which ruled Spain with an iron fist for 30 years. Of course, a party shouldn’t be judged solely by its origin – however, in the case of the People’s Party, it’s clear that the leopard hasn’t changed its spots.

A very recent example of this is the Citizen’s Security Act, passed by the Spanish parliament right before christmas. Here are a few things that will be illegal under the CSA:

– Desecrating or burning the Spanish flag will now get you a 600 000 euro (about $850,ooo) fine. Don’t get me wrong, I’m against flag-burning, but 600,000 euro is just ridiculous.

– Videotaping or taking photographs of on-duty policemen is now also illegal – 30,000 euro ($40,000) fine. This is clearly meant to make it virtually impossible for demonstrating protesters to prove that the police has used unjustifiable violence (something that’s not entirely uncommon in Spain, despite the fact that demonstrations turning into riots is an extremely rare occasion). Speaking of demonstrations…

– Arranging a demonstration without permission – 30,000 euro. There has been 6000 demonstrations in Spain in the past year. How many demonstrations do you think the government will permit next year? What’s more absurd is, a “demonstration” is defined rather broadly, which means…

– If you want to start a facebook group protesting the government, be prepared to pay up 30k. Yes, that’s right – a social media gathering (like the one in a facebook group) counts as a demonstration and is illegal. Sure, facebook groups may be among the lamest ways of making your voice heard, but that doesn’t justify this policy.

– Speaking of social media, if you create a group that gathers around a symbol or a flag (say you create a facebook group called “If you like the Catalonian flag, join this group”), then you’ll be subject to a 30k fine.

– Preventing a policeman from doing his job – ie. by participating in a sit-in protest and refusing to move will cost you 30,000 euro.

– Being partly or fully masked during a demonstration – 30,000 euro. Again, please don’t get me wrong – I don’t like the idea of masked demonstrators and I wouldn’t want to participate in one (as I feel there’s too high a risk that the demonstration will turn into a riot).

– Carrying a sign during a demonstration with a message that is critical of Spain. Basically, if you have a sign that says “Spain sucks”, then you’ll soon find yourself 30 000 poorer.

– Drawing a satirical cartoon, portraying for example a politician, will also cost you 30 000 euro.

All of these fines will be handed out without any involvement from any court – a cop will be able give a demonstrator a 30k fine just as easily as he’d been able to give someone a speeding ticket.

You may wonder how this party ever got elected. While I’m not by any means an expert on Spanish politics, my understanding is that Spain, like the US, suffers from a severe shortage of decent politicians. This means that in every election, voters are asked to choose the lesser of two evils, to an even greater extent I think than in the US. The Socialist party which ruled Spain before PP refused to rein in the housing bubble, which caused an economic crisis – unemployment in Spain is an astonishing 26 %! And as we all know, in times of unemployment, voters turn to totalitarian politicians who seemingly offers safety and stability. Now as you’ve probably guessed, this stability hasn’t really materialized – austerity measures have continued, with savaging cuts in particular in health care. While there is absolutely an economic case to be made for austerity, it shouldn’t come as a surprise that such measures will generate protests.

But in order to fully understand these regulations, there is another thing you need to know: Within Spain there is a region known as Catalonia. Catalonia was once an independent state, but long story short it was conquered and together with the conquerors it formed the nation today known as Spain. Catalonia has its own culture and language (Catalan) – the most famous city in the region is probably Barcelona. I don’t know if you’ve figured this out already from my description, but the “problem” from Spain’s point of view is that Catalonia has an ever-growing independence movement.

Not only do they have an independence movement, but this movement is so strong that it has gained a majority in Catalonia’s regional parliament. The call for independence has become stronger as the economic crisis has worsened; Catalonia is one of Spain’s richest regions and doesn’t want to be dragged down by the rest of the country – fully understandable in my opinion.

The latest political crisis was caused by the regional government in Catalonia announcing that they will hold a referendum on Catalonian independence on the 9th of November this year. The Spanish government, of course, responded by reaching out to the Catalonians and offering to discuss alternative, mutually beneficial solutions… actually, no, that would have been the sensible thing to do, but being Fascist, the People’s Party of course responded the way you might have imagined Hitler would have responded to a referendum on Polish independence. They immediately declared that such a referendum would not take place – and added that they were not willing to discuss the issue or compromise with the Catalonian nationalists.

However, it is very likely that the referendum will take place – and if they cannot arrange a referendum, the Catalonian government will probably simply hold a vote within the parliament on independence (or hold a new, regional election in which independence would be the central issue), and then declare independence. What could Spain do? Catalonia already got pretty much all the institutions necessary to function as an independent state, and they are supported by the UN. Several European nations have expressed their support for Catalonia’s right to self-determination – including big countries like the UK.

The only thing Spain can reasonably do is to use military force to crush the nationalists. Will they dare to do it? I honestly don’t think so – putting tanks on the streets of Barcelona just seems like the kind of thing that could tarnish Spain’s image internationally for decades. If a referendum does take place, it is common knowledge that voters will approve of independence and it won’t even be close (polls show the nationalists hold a 20-30 point lead).

But Spain believes the best way to handle this situation is to scare the nationalists into silence by threatening them with huge fines – most of the Citizen’s Security Act is directed towards Catalonian nationalists – remember, you can’t hold demonstrations critical of spain, you can’t desecrete the Spanish flag, you can’t gather around a symbol or a flag etc. Just by briefly studying history, we learn that this approach never works. Instead, if a part of your country wants to become independent, the best way to convince them otherwise is to approach them peacefully, talk to them and be ready to compromise – basically, show them that you (the federal government) are not their enemy. This is what the United Kingdom has done with regards to Scotland – there will be a referendum on Scottish independence next year as well, but the nationalists in Scotland are set to lose by a wide margin. Why? Because it’s really hard to portray David Cameron (Prime Minister of the UK) as some sort of Longshank-style tyrant, and since the UK government has promised to respect the results of the referendum, it is also hard to portray them as coldhearted oppressors.

Moving on, there is another big story that we must not forget about in the middle of this: The European Union has screwed up again.

Spain, for the past couple of years, have been dependent on the EU for financial aid. They only recently exited their bailout program, but their economy is so frail that it is a very real possibility that they could need financial aid at some point not too far away into the future. And, given how much power Spain and all the other Eurozone countries have had to give up in order to get financial aid in the first place, the EU has had every opportunity to pressure Spain not to introduce the totalitarian Citizen’s Security Act, and to allow the people of Catalonia a chance to vote on the future of their region.

Basically, what this debacle shows is that the EU is not a reliable safeguard of democracy and human rights. If they can’t even get poor, Europe-dependent Spain to respect human rights, then which country can they possibly influence? What happens if an economically healthier country like France were to introduce such measures, would the EU be able to do anything except stand by like the League of Nations did before World War II?

The situation with Catalonia is even more ridiculous – it really shouldn’t be very hard to negotiate peace between Spain and Catalonia; after all, the Catalonians (most of them) do not seek independence because they hate Spain, but because they are tired of being marginalised and of paying much more taxes than they will ever get in return. Not exactly unsolveable issues, but then, the EU actually isn’t very good at peace-keeping – the credit for the long peace in Europe should really be awarded to the United States. In fact, I doubt the EU could negotiate a peace between two coconuts.

One final observation: This law also indicates that the Spanish government knows that the economic crisis isn’t really over. If they expected it to be over soon, there would be no need for this law as nearly all the demonstrations will cease as soon as economic conditions improve. Basically, don’t believe the hype: The eurozone is and will always be unfixable, unworkable, and unsustainable.

John Gustavsson is our Economic and European analyst. John holds a MSc in Behavioral economics from the University of Nottingham and is currently pursuing a PhD in Economics at the National University of Ireland, Maynooth. He was born in 1991 in Sweden and grew up in Örnsköldsvik, a city in one of the most left-winged regions in one of the most left-winged countries of the world. Despite - or maybe because of - having been raised in this environment, John grew up to become a fiscal, social and foreign policy conservative. He became interested in politics at the young age of 10 and has followed American politics since 2004. Here at Caffeinated Thoughts John provides commentary on a wide range of economic and European issues

Related

About John Gustavsson

John Gustavsson is our Economic and European analyst. John holds a MSc in Behavioral economics from the University of Nottingham and is currently pursuing a PhD in Economics at the National University of Ireland, Maynooth. He was born in 1991 in Sweden and grew up in Örnsköldsvik, a city in one of the most left-winged regions in one of the most left-winged countries of the world. Despite - or maybe because of - having been raised in this environment, John grew up to become a fiscal, social and foreign policy conservative. He became interested in politics at the young age of 10 and has followed American politics since 2004. Here at Caffeinated Thoughts John provides commentary on a wide range of economic and European issues

Comments

“Catalonia was once an independent state, but long story short it was conquered and together with the conquerors it formed the nation today known as Spain. Catalonia has its own culture and language (Catalan) – the most famous city in the region is probably Barcelona.”

all of this are untrue. catalonia never was a country. catalonia culture is spanish culture, we’re the same, genetic and historically, so, from this point, the article is wrong.

if the main thing of your article is about a wrong understanding of spanish history, then.. all your thinkings must be wrong.

Sorry, no. Check it again……..The Kingdom of Aragon -not Catalonia, sorry- merged with Castilla to unificate all the kingdoms of Spain. The “institutions” you mention were not much “independent” that the other regions of Spain.

Don’t worry John: this is the same propaganda as that was written on the school books at Franco’s time. We are used to it in Barcelona. You may also have noticed there’s a bunch of government-paid copywriters working around Internet.

Yeah I noticed, I never thought I’d get this kind of response. Isn’t it annoying how you have to accuse a country of being fascist before somebody bothers to read what you write? Also, I’ve noticed that no-one bothers to defend the CSA, which is what the post was really about.

"Unlike the Castile Courts of the time which functioned only as an advisory body to which the king granted privileges and exemptions, the Catalan Courts was a regulatory body, as their decisions had the force of law, in the sense that the king could not unilaterally revoke them."

First, the guy posting as John G isn’t me (the author). Do you deny that Catalonia has its own language? Even the most fervent unionist should be able to concede that Catalonia is distinct from the rest of Spain in many ways.

Also, I’m not arguing for Catalonian independence because they once were independent – I’m arguing for it because the people of Catalonia wants it, and they have the ability to survive as an independent state.

Also, why didn’t you comment on the main topic of the article – the Citizen’s security act? Do you really think it is justified to fine somebody 600 000 euro without even holding a trial for desecrating the Spanish flag?

Catalonia has its own languagem that’s right. That does not make it union a conquest. That union was a peaceful one through the marriage of their sovereigns, 1479. Although Aragon (not Catalonia, which was long back united into the kind of federal kingdom of Aragon) remained with own laws, both kingdoms were united under the same ruler and the name of Spain. It was not until the Bourbons came when the uniformization of the domains in a french style began, abolishing the medieval-dated territorial privileges of local nobility or ruling classes. Yes, there was a civil war for that, not a conquest. Actually, when the Bourbon Philip the 5th came he started by respecting this confederation model, and it was not until the war when he then decided to just ignore the promise to the ones who fought against him and unite their land as equal to the rest. That is not a conquest. The citizens of these regions lived equal to the rest, and actually participated quite fluently in the future politics and economy of modern Spain. During the war of Cuba against the USA, it was the catalonian bourgeoisie (with intense economic activity there that was not allowed before the uniformization since America was Castilian only) that most cheered up the patriotic defence of the last American flock of empire.

About the Citizen’s secutity act, I disagree with its content, but calling it fascist is an obvious symptom of not knowing what the theoretical basis of fascism is. Authoritarianism is not equal to fascism and has been used under many ideologies and times. I am tired of this fascism label to anything rough we disagree with.

I spent 11 years in the Swedish school system and I never heard one negative word about Spain. I’ve been to Spain – twice to the Canary isles and once to Fuengirola where my sister lived for two years – and I liked it; I don’t have any personal hatred towards Spain.

I was, however, indoctrinated with socialism and egalitarianism – but as of today, I’m not a socialist nor an egalitarian, hence the indoctrination didn’t really work on me.

Please try and come up with some counterarguments to my post instead of trashing my nationality. The truthness of my post is not affected by me being from Sweden.

I am certainly not trashing your, our, nationality. I am
stating that you have concocted an article from wishful socio-political ruminations alienated from reality. You do this very well but it remains claptrap.

Besides, I don’t base my views on Spain on anything I learned when I visited. I base it on the objective fact that your goverment recently 1) passed a fascist anti-free speech law and 2) have tried to sabotage the efforts of the Catalonian government to let the people of Catalonia choose their own future.

“A nation that cannot control its borders is not a nation.”
― Ronald Reagan

Since when? Let’s see, since always. This is the reason why countries exists nowadays.

This is the reason why the 3 separatist regions of France did not break APART (not to confuse with FREE, Catalonians are free citizen, but they are subject to common laws like every citizen living in any other country).

This is also applicable to other countries, separatism is not a just a remarkable charasteristic of Spain itself, but also happens in other countries. For instance in the Bavaria region of Germany and I can assure you that their constitution will not let them break apart).

And as already explained Catalonian do not have a legitimate case as you seem to claim.
There is no historical reason as this region was part of Spain since its foundations in 1592.
This is rather the result of an education system in the hands of nationalist autonomical goverments that used it to indoctrinate their citizens into nationalism.

If you see Catalonia as a victim, you need to study some XX centry spanish history.
They were benefited by all goverments specially in the 20th century where Franco was its main benefactor.

Franco’s goverment applied all kind of protection tariffs to protect their economy against foreign competition and since every investement from abroad was placed in the same region (Catalonia) they developed to the detriment of other regions (Andalucia, Castillas la Mancha, Castilla Leon, Extremadra, Galicia).

The population (millions of people) from other regions had to moved to Catalonia as all foreign companies would be settled in there (car sector, pharma and health care industry, chemical industry, services, etc. )

By the 70 this economical momentum already attained a huge economical difference between Catalonia and other regions, that were left with no options but farming and cattle raising.

Fortunatelly nowadays there are structural funds like in EU to correct these difference and past injustice.

Obvioulsy nationalist would not be happy with other regions being given a chance as it is already being the case and given results.
They like to keep its superiority and break apart now that they were already able to use the rest of Spain as its own protected market to achieve higher prosperity.

“The cheapest form of pride however is national pride. For it betrays in the one thus afflicted the lack of individual qualities of which he could be proud, …”

If you actually read the post, you’d notice that I cite sources and that my understanding isn’t based on visiting the country many years ago. Seriously, this post has had so many Spanish people coming to the defense of your country – yet not a SINGLE ONE OF YOU has attempted to defense the Citizen’s Security Act which is what my article was all about. Explain how the CSA isn’t fascist – hit me with your best shot! Since (I assume) you live in Spain, it should be a cakewalk to explain why for instance people shouldn’t be allowed to draw satirical cartoons portraying politicians.

Clear example of tabloid press. Sensationalist style with a bunch of opinions presented as facts to stir indignation and defend separatism.

Its main purpose is to discredit a legal government to support an illegal secession which is unconstitutional as per law.

It even compares current spanish government with Hitler (no comments) and resorts to lies to defend his biased view of the state of affairs:

Following are some of the most flagrant lies:

1. “Outside of Spain, the PP is often referred to as a christian, conservative party. As nice as that would be (christian conservatives rarely get to govern in Europe), ”

Such a lie! Christlich Demokratische Union Deutschlands, CDU is ruling in Germany since 2005.
CDU governed Germany from 1949 to 1969, from 1982 to 1998 and from 2005 to present. A total of 44 years so far in the last 64 years, and counting.

Maybe you did not heard of Nicolas Sarkozy either (UMP party, ideology: Gaullism, Conservatism, Liberal conservatism, and surprise: Christian democracy)

Please review Europe modern history.

2. Your knowledge of Spanish history is very poor. Please try to comprehend the text you provided yourself. It clearly says:

“Full independence was obtained by James I, King of Aragon, in the Treaty of Corbeil (1258)”
This independence was obtained by the Kingdom of Aragon (not Catalonia) which include other regions/counties of Spain.
The Kingdom of Aragon and the Kingdom of Castilla merged later on in 1492 to form current Spain, probably the oldest country in Europe nowadays.

3. “Several European nations have expressed their support for Catalonia’s right to self-determination – including big countries like the UK.”

Please provide the list of countries and their official communiqué from reliable press / resources (no independent tabloids).

1) By Conservative, I mean American conservative. This is an american site so I go by american standards. It is true that right-winged parties sometimes get elected in Europe, and sure it’s better than socialists, but it’s not like they believe in the same thing as the American conservatives do. European conservatives in general do not believe in natural rights, nor do they believe in strong constitutions, nor in the right to keep and bear arms, and many of them have not supported the war on terror. And “christian democrat” is in my experience not the same thing as a christian conservative – a christian democrat tends to be centrist or centre-rightwinged in economic issues for example.

2) OK, so the area that was independent was not identical to Catalonia – how is that even relevant here? Instead of whining about that, why don’t you instead explain to me why protesters shouldn’t be allowed to videotape the police?

3) Check wikipedia, Catalonian self-determination referendum. There you will find quotes and sources.

1) I really fail to understand how you got to the conclusion that PP is not a Christian Democrat party.
This is basically what defines the party policy and foundations.
Please check Wikipedia as it seems to be your only cultural resource. It will clarify it for you.

On the other hand, Germany is more centric than Spain and Christian Democrat are not SOMETIMES elected in Europe.
I gave you an devastating example of a party, which belongs to the European People’s Party (same as PP in Spain) and ruled a democracy for longer than 40 years (most of the time in Germany).

2) I commented on the part your text that held assumptions which are cleary false and tendentious.
When this law enter into force we will see whether it is really applied or even works as you described it. I really doubt it.

3) So your list of countries that “support”, meaning current prime minister is in favour, general self-determination are:

– Latvia
– Lithuania
I think we only need to understand the recent history of these two countries to understand why.

– UK
Well, taking into account the relations between UK and Spain and curent tense situaionn in Gibraltar, I think this is rather a try-to-annoy-Spain strategy from UK.

Good! Out of 92 countries in Europe there seems to be 3 whose CURRENT goverment supports a referendum in Spain.
Amazing! This is the reality you like to distort and announce in your text as “many countries”.

Please try to document yourself properly and show a more objective view of the current state of affair in Spain.
I do not think you were able to get to know Spain while you were bathing in these touristic resorts.

1) I think actions speak louder than words, and the actions of the PP prove them to be Francoist scum, not christian democrats.

2) So now we have to enact laws before we can judge them? That’s not how we do it in Sweden. This actually reminds me of Nancy Pelosi’s “We have to pass the bill to find out what’s in it” (regarding Obamacare). You’re saying the Spanish people should just trust the government not to overuse its powers? Since when do governments – southern European ones in particular – NOT overuse their powers? This law doesn’t have to be implemented before we can condemn it; it violates human rights and that’s all we need to know.

3) Yeah, Latvia and Lithuania – two countries who cannot take their independence for granted – seems to understand the importance of the right to self-determination. As for the UK, they are themselves leading by example by providing an opportunity for the Scottish to vote on independence, so I doubt this is all about Gibraltar. Also if Spain were to actually intervene militarily against Catalonia (were Catalonia to declare independence), then they would be condemned by virtually every country in the world. I don’t think any political leader in any country will want to be seen as siding with the People’s Party vs the people on Catalonia. Images of tanks and soldiers on the streets of Barcelona will turn world opinion against Spain in no time. If Spain actually allowed a referendum (and didn’t introduce the CSA), then the unionists might stand a fighting chance – but since they don’t allow a referendum, only the nationalists will campaign to win the referendum and the fact that Spain won’t allow it will not make them any more popular with the people of Catalonia.

1) Your interpretaiton of actions. I think you fail to understand that each person generate its own reality and yours is really a mess man. You need to get your facts right.

2) This is your interpretation of the law which has not yet been approved. And on the other hand many of the points you mentioned are in force in other countries like US or France. You cannot video tape or take photographs of the police without their permission.

3) I cannot believe you are talking about tanks, etc. You must be out of your mind, really!

First of all, there is a Carta Magna (constitution) in place, accepted by all parties and that is common for Spain.

The sovereignty of the territories of Spain belongs to all Spaniards, not only to a piece of Spain that has been part of Spain for the last 522 years.

We cannot even compare this situation with Lithuania or Letonia (which were not long back independent) or UK in which constitution they capture the possibility of self-determination as it is formed by 4 different countries.

Let put an example in your own country. If in Sweden the region of Småland would like to apply for independece, the constitution and rest of the country would not allow it.

Ehm, speaking of Sweden, the last time anyone wanted to become independent from us (Norway), we allowed them to hold a referendum and when they voted yes, we let them go. I don’t know what we’d do today about if Småland decided to leave, but the situation would also be different as Småland’s odds of surviving on its own are quite small. Catalonia on the other hand – the question is not whether they can survive on their own, but whether Spain can survive without it. Oh, and I really doubt we’d forbid anyone anywhere in the country from organizing pro-independence demonstrations.

It is sad that many democratic countries have passed undemocratic laws recently – but in Spain, the situation is more serious; partly because the laws are more restricting than anywhere else in the western world, but mostly because Spain does not have a democratic tradition. The US has been a democracy since the 19th century, most western European countries have strong democratic traditions that go back 100 years or more. In Spain, democracy is young and fragile – many people still haven’t left Fascism behind (hence why they vote for PP). That is why these laws are worse when introduced in Spain than had they been introduced in say the US (though they would have been horrible either way).

As for the “tanks on the street” – this isn’t very farfetched as spanish officials have already suggested that those who strive for independence should be prosecuted in military courts for high treason.

Norway and Sweden was an union that lasted less than 100 years. Previously Norway was united to Denmark. And even when they joined Sweden, “Norway kept its liberal constitution and its own independent institutions, except for the foreign service.”
It is really funny how to compare things without considering historical background and details (Napoleon, etc.)

On the other hand you seem to assume that a region has the right and can claim independence, if they are economically strong or better off than others around.
I think this is a very selfish point of view.
If the world worked according to this logic, we would end up splitting the earth into very rich regions and very poor regions; a very dangerous ideology you might be brooding over there.

John, you are becoming more demagogical every day. In Spain you can and will always be able to organize pro-independence demonstration (remember, against your belief we are a democracy). Please stop bladdering nonsense and try to think twice before you say something.

Also as per your understanding in Spain people should never vote a right-wing democratic party because this is facist.
I suppose the same goes for Germany or France, I suppose, if they vote right-wing then they are facist.
This is all you have learned about politics. Right is facist, right are not democratic, etc.
I think you just proved how politically biased your are.
You do not accept that people vote something you do not like and all people in Spain should vote left-wing parties. Isn’t that right? 🙂

As far as I understood PP governed around 10 years and hast actually lost elections against PSOE.
And as far as I remember we still have democracy and we were able to vote again. Something must be wrong here, weren’t them authoritarian and antidemocratic? 🙂

As for democracy, I feel it is quite stable in Spain. It is 37 years old. In Germany it is around 54 years old in one part and only 23 years old on the east, does it make it more stable? What about the whole east block, where democracy is in their infancy.
This is how you measure democracy stability. I have not heard any media doubting the stability of democracy in Spain.
Is it because the right-wing is ruling that makes democracy fragile in your eyes, John? Maybe it was just Fuengirola that was fragile when you were here (but one sec, PSOE was ruling in Andalucia so it cannot be the case 🙂

As for your last statment I have not heard something like this before.
I know they would be prosecuted if they DECLARE independance, not if they strive since they are doing this every second day and they are still on the street.
But you see, this actually would also happen in any country (Germany, France, US, etc.). In the same way when you kill, still or rob as it is illegal.

I think many people said it before. But you need to document yourself a more.
You provided wrong statements (fines were actually not as strict as you mentioned), your knowledge of spanish and european history is very week and you draw parallelism between different countries that do not make much sense.
All in all a very simplistic point of view and lack of understanding of the complexity and differences in Europe.

"However, its different territories were only connected through the person of the monarch, an aspect of empire as early as Achaemenid Persia. A contemporary, the Marqués de Lozoya described the Crown of Aragon as being more like a confederacy than a centralised kingdom, let alone an empire. Nor did official documents ever refer to it as an empire (Imperium or any cognate word); instead, it was considered a dynastic union of autonomous kingdoms."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_of_Aragon

thanks for the article. All is about to be tired of Spain.
But the real problem is that fascism it is always present. No Nuremberg here. The King was put by Franco. He killed his son, no blame on him, no explanation,… only that he had very bad relation with his bro… and it was an accident, where the gun was hiden in the sea in case anyone asked questions…
However going to the problem of Catalonia. The real reason is that Spain has never, and will never be doable by its means. Only when they could steal from first of musulms in Andalucia, later jews in Middle Ages, south america (took the richer places in America and with existing agriculture), Catalonia, Europe… always living by the effort of others. You look at Bolivia, Argentina, Mexico and see USA, Canada, New Zeland… it is not about the land. The problem of Spain and all the countries conquered is the culture. The culture of being lazy is cool!!! You go to Extremadura, and people are all the day in the “bars”… you can’t see anything like this anywhere… what can we expect. They dont let Catalonia go because they would have to work. 9% of GDP of catalonia disapear in taxes, the maximum for other regions in europe is 4%. It is crazy, we got the higher taxes of income, electiricity, water, VAT of all europe. Why we have to pay the laziness of this bastards!!! Andalucia was rich before Spanish people conquered them, lots of land, and textile industry. they recieved more than 50.000 mln euros in 10 last years only to reduce unemployment. No any accountablity for the money, where was europe to control where the money was/is?????
Catalonia independence is all about future, we want to be a different estate not because of our different culture but because a future, if i pay taxes i want to be for my people. Too many people in Spain living because other people work. With these laws you mentioned we have to chose between a Spain of years 50, or a new Catalonia…. Hope more democratic, it is not all about money. The freedom and understanding of democracy in Spain is based on fascism. Lots of PP voters love Nazis. You only need to go to a match in Real Madrid or Athletico de Madrid…

I’m glad you liked it! I completely agree on fascism never really being defeated, completely, in Spain – just like in Italy where very few war criminals and collaborators were prosecuted after World War II.

That’s the impression I’ve gotten, that Catalonia is different from Spain partly because Catalonians have a stronger work ethic and just overall they’re more economically efficient than the rest of Spain. Spain wants to keep you in their country because the rest of Spain couldn’t handle the government debt without all the tax revenue you provide for them.

Please share this article on facebook/twitter or whatever social media network you’re on so that more people can read it.

John, clearly you found a friend (Jordi) who can share a nazism point of view with you. Please write another article to insult and bitch about other regions of Spain. Then we will clearly understand the type of ideology you and Jordi support.

I am amazed how simplistic your point of view can get.
So for you Nazism is all about antisemitism?

I think you need to study a bit of documentation about the pre-war period. Let’s say start with the post-war period after 1st World War and then go to Nazism and start of 2WW.
John, you really need to do some homework.

Jordi is a clear victim of the current education system which was tailored by nationalist goverments to serve their own agenda.
We cannot even talk about selective memory, simplistic views or cliches from his side, it is simply ignorance of reality., economic and history.

i’m born in germany and i live in canarias since 22 years and for me there is no doubt: YES – spain is going to fascim. and YES, i’m afraid observing this evolution. in germany we had the nuremberg trials, in spain the only person who dared to investigate the crimes against humanity comitted by the franco-regime was judge garzón, whom they simply kicked-off because the sons of the franco-regime are the politicians of the actual pp-government. these people are catapulting the whole country back to the middle-ages – on cultural, economical and social level. they are taking decisions against the people who are already ashamed of having voted them. but they know, that they will not win the next elections and that the next government will have to change again all their laws, but until then fascism grows…

Jeanne, thanks for stopping by 🙂 Yeah I think too the problem with Fascism in Spain as well as Italy to a lesser extent is that those who were responsible were never held accountable for their crimes. This allowed fascism to survive as a political ideology, concealed with other words.

However, about the last part – you say the next government will change all their laws. That’s a possibility of course, but I’m afraid many of these regulations will remain in place, just because silencing protesters is “convenient” for any sitting government, whether PP or another party. I’m also afraid of PP being replaced by some other extreme group (communists etc). I’m also worried that they could somehow remain in power by forming a coalition. But, let’s hope for the best.

Based on your support to Jordi’s post who clearly is insulting and considering the rest of Spain as “lazy bastards”. I wonder how can Andaluces be so lazies when they are responsible for Catalonia growth in the sixties & seventies (1 million people), who are still considered by the Catalonian Parlament as “inmigrant”.

Also, the city with more Andaluces in Spain is Madrid, which is clearly the most competitive province in Spain with the highest GDP and highest salaries.

Nevertheless, Jordi’s opinion and yours, which seems very much alike, is basically a very widespread ideology between separatist.
They support Ezquerra Republicana, which is a nationalist and socialist party (aka National Socialism) that try to impose a language and culture on any citizen (be it in the education or any official bodies) even when both languages (Spanish and Catalan) are official or should be as per law.

Do you know it is impossible to study in Spanish in Catalonia? You should investigatge to understand the real situation instead of throwing opinion without any thorough investigation.

This article is quite rubbish and very lopsided. I am Spanish and I live here and things are just not like this. I am tempted to think the author knows Spanish reality and politics only by rehashed headlines. Not that some things are true concerning the security laws, but the reality is far more complex than this simplistic pamplhet suggests

Well, that’s the thing: When you introduce fascist laws, then you have to count on us who support democracy to write “lop-sided” articles criticizing you. Spain has a frail democracy and lacks the long democratic tradition we have in the west, which makes these laws even more dangerous.

There is no need for any “security laws” – the demonstrations have been peaceful, the laws are just meant to give the police the right to abuse protesters without anyone being able to prove anything. Oh, and they are also meant to silence nationalists in Catalonia. When a country acts that way, they have to accept that people will call them what they are: Fascist.

There a lot of things that are no true. For example, Catalonia never wan an independent state. An also, Catalonia is not the only autonomic community in Spain with its own culture and his own language, actually most of them has its own culture and some other like Galicia, País Vasco, Asturias or Valencia has its own language.

Also, I don’t think that somebody could be fined for a Facebook group or for carrying a sing on a demonstration.