Also I just wanted to point out that the 3rd line is going to be a scoring line this year with Hudler whether it's Modano, Helm, Abdelkader or whoever else. Last year it was a AHL line. Everybody's numbers are going to be a lot better this season with a healthy team.

Well, I don't know. Football isn't really a sport where you need passion to play. If you've got talent like Favre does, you put in a decent effort for a 16 game season (or 20 including a championship run). Quarterback is the least physical position, so it's not like you have to have drive to play 82+ games in which every game you have to constantly be moving and making that extra effort to get the puck that's just out of your reach, or fight for the puck in the corners or to get to the front of the net night in and night out.

Passion counts in hockey. To be brutally honest, I don't think it comes in play much in football, at least from a quarterback's position.

Passion counts in everything you do in life. If your a fry cook with passion you could be the best fry cook in the world. Saying Farve has no passion is like saying Yzerman has no passion. I just cannot agree with you here.

No time for nostalgia
It will be interesting to see how the Mike Modano saga plays out. Will he retire? Will he go "home" to Michigan and give it one last shot with the Red Wings? (Detroit coach Mike Babcock said publicly he thinks it's a given Modano will be a Red Wing come October.)

To us, this is where nostalgia runs smack dab into reality.

Modano missed 23 games to injury last season while scoring 14 times from a mostly third-line position on the Dallas Stars. He averaged 14:18 a night in ice time and scored just three times on the power play. Modano scored just 15 times in 2008-09 and posted only 12 power-play goals over the past three seasons.

We're not sure exactly how he fits into the Wings' plans to rebound from a trying, injury-plagued 2009-10 campaign that saw them fall in the second round to San Jose.

It's not an issue of whether Modano has the will to lace 'em up in September or October; but what is his will to play out an entire season? That seemed to be an issue in Dallas the past couple of seasons and explains in part why the Stars made the choice to walk away from a player who has been the face of the franchise for two decades.

If we were Wings GM Ken Holland, we'd take a run at Bill Guerin or Paul Kariya to add veteran scoring punch and give one of your young prospects a shot at centering the third line. Less nostalgic, perhaps; but, in the long run, we're guessing it would be a more productive move with less potential for dressing-room headaches.

Passion counts in everything you do in life. If your a fry cook with passion you could be the best fry cook in the world. Saying Farve has no passion is like saying Yzerman has no passion. I just cannot agree with you here.

I highly doubt people are going to get on other's cases if those people don't want Modano. If you don't want him, cool. I'd like him but I'm certainly not going to lose sleep if he's not a Red Wing. Nobody here is treating him like the greatest thing since sliced bread.

It's more along the lines, and incredibly aggravating, that some seem to still not get that Helm and Abdlekader are going to be with the team regardless, and are just worrying way too much about them possibly not being re-signed (when they already are) or stuff that nobody can predict years and years down the road. People need to be more patient and this is a situation that really isn't worth reading more into; there is nothing more to read into.

fair enough, but I got 2 negs already for my comment lol

anyways I know helm and abby will be a part of this team next year no matter what and im not worried about loosing them. My problem is I don't want modano taking ice time away from our young guns. I hope modano doesn't sign with us but wont be mad if he does. I just wont care and hope he can fit in and do well.

No time for nostalgiaIt will be interesting to see how the Mike Modano saga plays out. Will he retire? Will he go "home" to Michigan and give it one last shot with the Red Wings? (Detroit coach Mike Babcock said publicly he thinks it's a given Modano will be a Red Wing come October.)

To us, this is where nostalgia runs smack dab into reality.

Modano missed 23 games to injury last season while scoring 14 times from a mostly third-line position on the Dallas Stars. He averaged 14:18 a night in ice time and scored just three times on the power play. Modano scored just 15 times in 2008-09 and posted only 12 power-play goals over the past three seasons.

We're not sure exactly how he fits into the Wings' plans to rebound from a trying, injury-plagued 2009-10 campaign that saw them fall in the second round to San Jose.

It's not an issue of whether Modano has the will to lace 'em up in September or October; but what is his will to play out an entire season? That seemed to be an issue in Dallas the past couple of seasons and explains in part why the Stars made the choice to walk away from a player who has been the face of the franchise for two decades.

If we were Wings GM Ken Holland, we'd take a run at Bill Guerin or Paul Kariya to add veteran scoring punch and give one of your young prospects a shot at centering the third line. Less nostalgic, perhaps; but, in the long run, we're guessing it would be a more productive move with less potential for dressing-room headaches.

Outside I must

Isn't Guerin also injury prone? Don't they both make a decent amount more then what we would pay Modano? I may be wrong. Regardless, has it ever crossed burnsides mind or anyone else's that sometimes it just sucks to work for an organization that treats you like crap? Maybe Mike's heart was not into last season? Maybe it just sucks to get crapped on by the brass you gave your career to and you just lose a little fizzle. I think Holland gets paid the big bucks for doing the right thing and burnside makes not nearly as much making assumptions about it.

Modano's +/- last three seasons were -6, -13, -11...is that what the Wings want to add? Holland says they have done well with veterans in the past, but our team is full of experienced guys who have all been to the big dance once or twice. All I see Mike adding might be increased ticket sales with the Michigan native thing.

Modano's +/- last three seasons were -6, -13, -11...is that what the Wings want to add? Holland says they have done well with veterans in the past, but our team is full of experienced guys who have all been to the big dance once or twice. All I see Mike adding might be increased ticket sales with the Michigan native thing.

wow did you look at all his other stats and not just a stat that depends on the team around him?

Some people remind me so much of the project managers and data analyst here at dell. they only pull data that somewhat supports the crap they are trying to say and they leave out everything else. never really looks at the whole picture.

Modano's +/- last three seasons were -6, -13, -11...is that what the Wings want to add? Holland says they have done well with veterans in the past, but our team is full of experienced guys who have all been to the big dance once or twice. All I see Mike adding might be increased ticket sales with the Michigan native thing.

Since Holland has actively persued him then I guess the answer is yes. It floors me how we can have the most successful hockey team of the past 15 years without question and people still find reasons to second guess this teams judgement. Ken Holland has been the GM of that team for 13 of those 15 years, has he made a mistake or two... Sure but given his track record I am not one to pass judgement on his decisions before I see them played out. You can't find better odds than betting on Ken Holland.

What kind of color is red? Red is a warning, a declaration, a color that says I'm ready to do what it takes. Red is focused and driven because red doesn't like second place. So what kind of color is red? Their kind.

Since Holland has actively persued him then I guess the answer is yes. It floors me how we can have the most successful hockey team of the past 15 years without question and people still find reasons to second guess this teams judgement. Ken Holland has been the GM of that team for 13 of those 15 years, has he made a mistake or two... Sure but given his track record I am not one to pass judgement on his decisions before I see them played out. You can't find better odds than betting on Ken Holland.

As far as questioning their judgment it really depends. They're not going to get everything right. I mean, Jason Williams a second time?

Also I just wanted to point out that the 3rd line is going to be a scoring line this year with Hudler whether it's Modano, Helm, Abdelkader or whoever else. Last year it was a AHL line. Everybody's numbers are going to be a lot better this season with a healthy team.

Now I really am going outside. I don't want to end up with 20,000 posts on a message board, that's just all kinds of sad. No offense.

Cute. Every single person has proved that your unsupported arguments are completely off base and nonsensical, and your last resort is to insult us for using the same message board that you yourself are arguing on? Define sad for me, please.

And Helm is going backwards? He has had ONE season in the NHL. Going backwards would mean going to the AHL, which he is not doing.

It might behoove you to put some thought into your posts before putting them up for the world to see, that way you wont have to resort to insulting people when they point out how intellectually bankrupt your opinions are.

Edit: Posting ESPN articles to support your arguments does very little to add any validity to your cause.

This thread gets more entertaining every time I come back to it. Oh, the +/- category. Just doesn't get any more overrated of a category than that. Ignoring any of his other stats is just blatant disregard for the player we will be getting to center our 3rd line.

Modano's +/- last three seasons were -6, -13, -11...is that what the Wings want to add? Holland says they have done well with veterans in the past, but our team is full of experienced guys who have all been to the big dance once or twice. All I see Mike adding might be increased ticket sales with the Michigan native thing.

I don't see Holland as having ever signed a player for ticket sales, other then selling tickets by winning. So there is no reason to believe Holland is doing this for any reason but that his assessment is like a lot of us who think signing Modano for 1.25 mil would be a coup.

1 out of 28 is not bad=)

Meatloaf's sequel song? You want me, you're gold fish, you drive a panda, ... but one out of 28 aint bad...

Modano's +/- last three seasons were -6, -13, -11...is that what the Wings want to add? Holland says they have done well with veterans in the past, but our team is full of experienced guys who have all been to the big dance once or twice. All I see Mike adding might be increased ticket sales with the Michigan native thing.

Look at his team stats and it is not really that bad and its not really fair to compare his +/- to another teams. Look at Dallas over all and they are a MINUS team, they had two guys total that were above a +3 the Wings had seven. The Wings were a +13 in goal differential and the Stars were a -17, it makes a huge difference to play on a team that scores 13 more goals than its opponents rather than one that gives up 17 more goals than its opponents. That 30 goal difference will really impact any player's plus/minus. And even on a much better goal differential team a guy like Brad Stuart was a -12 (twice the +/- of Modano - FYI I wouldn't normally compare a forward and defensive player's +/- but am using it here to show how many variables alter that stat rather than to actually compare the two) last year but I'd say he was still a good addition.

"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience." - Mark Twain

Look at his team stats and it is not really that bad and its not really fair to compare his +/- to another teams. Look at Dallas over all and they are a MINUS team, they had two guys total that were above a +3 the Wings had seven. The Wings were a +13 in goal differential and the Stars were a -17, it makes a huge difference to play on a team that scores 13 more goals than its opponents rather than one that gives up 17 more goals than its opponents. That 30 goal difference will really impact any player's plus/minus. And even on a much better goal differential team a guy like Brad Stuart was a -12 (twice the +/- of Modano - FYI I wouldn't normally compare a forward and defensive player's +/- but am using it here to show how many variables alter that stat rather than to actually compare the two) last year but I'd say he was still a good addition.

Especially playing on our third line where he's going to not have to play quite as much but is going to be playing other teams lesser defensemen but with some pretty talented wings. We could use some legit scoring on our deeper lines, I don't see how anyone could say we shouldn't be pursuing that with an opportunity like this.

Frank Herbert: Fear is the mind-killer

Groucho Marx: Sincerity is the key to success. If you can fake that, you've got it made

George Patton: If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking

Especially playing on our third line where he's going to not have to play quite as much but is going to be playing other teams lesser defensemen but with some pretty talented wings. We could use some legit scoring on our deeper lines, I don't see how anyone could say we shouldn't be pursuing that with an opportunity like this.

Agreed, even on a pretty bad Dallas team last year he was a .58 ppg player.

"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience." - Mark Twain

Especially playing on our third line where he's going to not have to play quite as much but is going to be playing other teams lesser defensemen but with some pretty talented wings. We could use some legit scoring on our deeper lines, I don't see how anyone could say we shouldn't be pursuing that with an opportunity like this.

I'm in the minority on MO. Not because I don't like him or think he is too old but because the Wings likely have some contracts coming off the books after this season and that 1 to 1.5M would go a long way towards bringing a player into the fold at the trade deadline in case of injury or if there is someone available they'd like long-term.

If you have an online nemesis you are spending too much time online....

I'm in the minority on MO. Not because I don't like him or think he is too old but because the Wings likely have some contracts coming off the books after this season and that 1 to 1.5M would go a long way towards bringing a player into the fold at the trade deadline in case of injury or if there is someone available they'd like long-term.

I think that is a legitimate argument. I personally think the benefit is worth the risk but understand your point. Its the not wanting him because he is no longer a superstar or that he was a -6 last year that I don't get.

"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience." - Mark Twain