No one was more indoctrinated in the family religion than I was. My grandfather was a Bishop and spoke around the dinner table how to better Mormons and help others understand the words of the savior. My problem was learning the words of others when I began the job of reading all the books written. My uncle (6 years my senior) enlisted in the Navy the day after Pearl Harbor. His library in my Grandparent’s home became mine. I read the big orange book that had pictures. I still have that book! Written by Richard Haliburton was the story of a Harvard drop out who left school to see the world. He went everywhere in his first book “The Royal Road to Romance” and it started a habit of his writing more books making my library expanded. Most of these books ended up in the libraries of my kids but I still have the big orange book.

No! my copy of the big orange book is gone! I forgot I have 2 grown grand children…

The expansion of the human brain demands a certain amount of rationality. Developing a secular attitude could be dangerous when the human has not been educated as knowing and understanding right over wrong. At some time in early childhold development the child will be taught right over wrong but the child is told that bad choices can be erased by going to Sunday school. This defeats the purpose of teaching our children how to survive in the world we choose.

Between infancy, early childhood development, adulthood and senior years, the moral attitude changes. It all depends on the input.

There is no problem if many of you do not produce offspring. Adding children to the situation must be given a lot of time and self-education.
We all understand the importance of healthy baby, there are a million books on how to improve the standards of life through good health. But so little effort is made to sell God to these kids unless using a threatening God to punish the kids. 20 years ago I would explain that my faith belongs to the many humans who protect life as secular humanists. People would look at me as a fool until I explained that Gene Roddenberry of Star Trek was a Secular Humanist and kept his attitude throughout his scripts. People then would remember several of the scripts that spoke of equality no matter what the weird person looked like.

No! my copy of the big orange book is gone! I forgot I have 2 grown grand children…

The expansion of the human brain demands a certain amount of rationality. Developing a secular attitude could be dangerous when the human has not been educated as knowing and understanding right over wrong. At some time in early childhold development the child will be taught right over wrong but the child is told that bad choices can be erased by going to Sunday school. This defeats the purpose of teaching our children how to survive in the world we choose.

Between infancy, early childhood development, adulthood and senior years, the moral attitude changes. It all depends on the input.

Sorry to hear about your orange book but it appears to be in good hands. My wife and I are extreme packrats and the only thing that saved us from being labled as horders are our frequent moves from apartments to homes. You are forced to throw out, donate or give away possessions once thought to be irreplaceable. We’re now lining up things to give to the granddaughters. Our kids have their own junk to contend with, so I guess we passed down the packrat gene. As to the problem of a developed secular attitude being dangerous, I couldn’t disagree more. First of all, prisons are filled to capacity with juveniles and adults who were raised in a religious family. I am often amazed by people I know who came from such families and committed petty, and on occasion felony crimes. They had religious parents and often attended Sunday school. This had little to no impact on them or their behavior. I often wrangled over this nature-nurture argument with George but have begun to see that several factors come to play in child development including peer group behavior and genetic predispositions such as sociopathy and psychopathy. Kids are smart, well most of them are, and and as they learn about the World around them they tend to campartmentalize their lives. Sunday school is for Sunday only and has no real impact on their behavior in the real World. They’re more interested in how to avoid the bully in the hallway, how to behave in their peer group, or how to find a boy friend/girlfriend than remembering what Mr. Jones taught in Sunday school about Jonah or how to sing the Abraham song. And yes the moral attitude should change with age and experience, but that doesn’t always happen. One would think that with age comes wisdom but I’ve found that to be nothing but a well worn, and false cliche. There are many many grown up kids out there who forgot this adage (written on a plaque in our school colors) “The man/woman who graduates today and stops learning tomorrow is uneducated the day after”. Truer words were never written! On the other side of the stage in our auditorium was yet another plaque stating, “Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity”. I guess you could say that was my orange book written in royal blue and old gold. Both statements reflect secular humanism.

Good points. It would have been neat to have someone like you around during my years of experimenting with training my kids on how to live without faith on any level. I had a problem after my youngest girl had fallen off a teeter totter at lunch time at school. The machine had fallen apart letting her fall during the problem when a nut and bolt separated and running her leg into the bolt to the bone. I got a call from the school that the bleeding was under control and maybe I should take her home. My first instruction was to pull her older sister out of class and she would handle the situation until I could get there. My older girl had a healing power that proved itself many times with a klutzy sister. I called the doctor and we could bring her in as soon as I got there. I drove up and there was Lynn holding her little sister in a way that would sooth her. We went off to the doctor where 3 levels of stitches were used and Lynn never left her side. We stopped for a pint of ice cream and home we went. I had the couch all set up with pillows and everything that would sooth my youngest. J.J. was soon sound asleep and everything seemed to be taken care of.

On the way home from the doctor’s office, J.J. started to sob. Lynn explained that she would share this with me later. The Principal of the school had asked J.J. what she was thinking about when the bolt came loose. Apparently God can and will strike when bad thought are silently expressed. J.J. never had a bad thought in her life and this was nothing but a diversion against a law suit and it would b e J.J.s fault that she got hurt.

There were only 2 months left in this last session of school and I called the Principal and explained that I would send the bill to her for payment and I would never consider suing the school for any reason. We would not be returning in September as no one will ever plant the fear of God into any member of my family. This was Lynn’s last year as the school only went through 9th grade. My girls did very well at this school and the statement made literally ruined the joy of those years that J.J. had enjoyed. I filled in as needed and the kids and other teachers knew me very well and many called that night worried about J.J.

I called the principal of another college prep school in Van Nuys and they sent papers for me to fill out and there would be room in the 6th grade. Of course she was accepted and the next day she was designing her clothes for the new school as they did not have uniforms. She is a girl all the way but she also was a straight A student. Her IQ had been tested and she outscored everyone in the family. We eventually talked about that horrible conversation and she actually laughed it off.

On the way home from the doctor’s office, J.J. started to sob. Lynn explained that she would share this with me later. The Principal of the school had asked J.J. what she was thinking about when the bolt came loose. Apparently God can and will strike when bad thought are silently expressed. J.J. never had a bad thought in her life and this was nothing but a diversion against a law suit and it would b e J.J.s fault that she got hurt.

I hope that she didn’t suffer any long term effects from the wound as it sounded like a major injury. Through to the bone means through the dermis and muscle. Personally, that would have scared the crap out of me if it happened to one of my kids. It sounds from your post that’s this was a private school and if so they may not carry an individual insurance plan as we do in a public school. This plan covers all injuries to a student while on school property. What the hell the principal meant by the religious remark is beyond me. One could get away with such a remark in the 50’s but not today unless it happened at a parochial school where the principal can talk about supernatural beings influencing playground behavior. And if the equipment was faulty then a lawsuit wouldn’t be out of line by bringing it to he attention of the local Board or governing body of the school. If a bolt did come loose it was clearly the school’s fault for not inspecting the equipment. it was probably a good idea to remove your child from that school to avoid any more accidents or religious guilt trips from authority figures.

The school paid all the medical expenses. I had been a founder of this new school and had done a lot of fund raising to get it going. I felt that they had no sympathy for her injury as they conveniently put it all on the lap of God. They thought this would have no responsibility but they did pay all expenses. I had known these people personally for 9 years and they had accepted a system of academics that was based on phonics with a large selection of classes. My plan was to remove my girls and locate a college prep that furnished the science that had been deleted. I put a lot of planning into the academic plan and it worked. J.J. has a terrible scar but the damage has been fixed. She has always been a bit klutzy and not all kids can be physically perfect. She may be the nicest of all my kids and is the peace maker for the family.

When the school started, they could not get a permit for a school in an area outside the city limits so they borrowed the status of the local Christian Science church. I had wanted a school that would recognize Jesus as a man with my ability to pull her away from the title of Savior. This was the arrangement and the Principal was wrong in her words to J.J. She knows it and she apologized.

I would constantly ask both my girls if they thought Jesus was their savior. It became a joke. My plan worked again! Children can often forget quickly and when my older girl was 18 she chose the Principal’s son to fall in love with. They had known each other for years and I liked John. Lynn went off to Cal - Santa Cruz and John was forgotten. Staying a step or two ahead of kids is getting even more difficult. Lynn is a licensed Psychologist and works with abuse children. No God will ever get into those sessions. J.J. writes for Forbes Magazine. I have my life under no control over anyone and I relish my time to read. I raised my kids without television making it possible to force them to make their own choices. No role models from a television allowed. Both girls practically worshipped Shakespeare and the house was filled with beautiful dialog. Taking fresh bread out of the oven could give the baker the death scene from Romeo & Juliette. When in a hurry, Puck’s words from “A Midsummer Night’s Dream” would be appropriate. I gave them my favorite quote from “Twelfth Night” which had nothing to do with the story but stuck out from the first time I ever saw the play.

“In nature there’s no blemish but the mind; none can be called deformed but the unkind.”

First of all, prisons are filled to capacity with juveniles and adults who were raised in a religious family. I am often amazed by people I know who came from such families and committed petty, and on occasion felony crimes. They had religious parents and often attended Sunday school. This had little to no impact on them or their behavior. Cap’t Jack

You wouldn’t believe how many people use church as a ‘get out of hell free’ card. They figure they can do what they want Mon-Sat, and then do penance on Sun. Barring that, as long as they pray before they are shot, they are ‘home free’. Most of the religious people I know do petty things, cheat on their spouse etc, but they figure going to church or praying, washes all of the wrong off the slate, and they can start clean again. Thus you hear of people like Whitney Houston going to heaven, because someone heard her mention Jesus the night before she died. Even when a killer dies, you never hear prayer of him going to hell. People don’t hire ministers for funerals to tell them their dearly departed loved one is going to hell, no matter the circumstances of their life….or death.

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Church; where sheep congregate to worship a zombie on a stick that turns into a cracker on Sundays…

It was this hypocrisy that first led me to begin to doubt the religious belief surrounding me as a kid. From devout (seemingly) believers in my family to later teachers, some Sunday school and public, and friends who didn’t “practice what they preached”. You begin to think that their are two moral and ethical Worlds out there then it’s later verified by the tearful televangelists confessing their “sins” to god until caught once again with that hooker or male/female lover. They then pull out the trump card and blame it on the devil and the credulous who pour money into their coffers believe once again and all in the name of faith. The deathbed confession isthe same. Preachers I once knew wrestled with this conundrum; if a mass murderer confessed his sins with his last breath would he go to heaven? Their answer was yes. Where the hell is the justice in that immortal escape route? I guess that still leaves the door open for the atheists. We can always say that the devil made us do it and skip past the pearly gates into godland!