Teenagers have very little control over their lives. They can't make healthcare decisions, especially vaccines, their parents decide what goes into their body, even when they have the mental ability to decide for themselves. They can't get a job without a parent's permission and permission from the state based on a medical exam, they can't leave their home without their parent's permission or they will be considered a "runaway" and cops will arrest them, bring them home and put them in juvenile justice and anything they buy, even with their own money, can be taken from them by their parents at any time for any reason. What kind of freedom is that?

It's a common myth that the human brain is not fully developed till 25. The study just restrained teens and adults to an MRI machine and had them perform the same tasks. Teens and adults performed EQUALLY well, but brain activity varied in teens and adults. The brain is fully competent at puberty. Our brains develop throughout life. A 40 year old will become a different person when he's 70. Experiences shape the brain but doesn't necessarily make you wiser. Generally people are fully competent at puberty.

Have you ever heard of the rubber band effect? If you keep holding your child back year after year when they finally get a chance to do whatever it is they are just going to let loose.

At 7/19/2013 10:37:54 PM, Fanny wrote:Teenagers have very little control over their lives. They can't make healthcare decisions, especially vaccines, their parents decide what goes into their body, even when they have the mental ability to decide for themselves.

Untrue. In many American states, mature minor doctrines are in place granting teenagers the power to accept or refuse medical treatment of their own volition.

They can't get a job without a parent's permission and permission from the state based on a medical exam

So? Honestly, they can still get a job, and that's something to be said for someone not considered in the majority.

they can't leave their home without their parent's permission or they will be considered a "runaway" and cops will arrest them, bring them home and put them in juvenile justice

Not necessarily. Generally speaking a teen may be out without parental permission unless it's past curfew.

and anything they buy, even with their own money, can be taken from them by their parents at any time for any reason. What kind of freedom is that?

Again, untrue. Property rights do extend to pretty much anyone if property is bought with a person's OWN money.

It's a common myth that the human brain is not fully developed till 25. The study just restrained teens and adults to an MRI machine and had them perform the same tasks. Teens and adults performed EQUALLY well, but brain activity varied in teens and adults. The brain is fully competent at puberty. Our brains develop throughout life. A 40 year old will become a different person when he's 70. Experiences shape the brain but doesn't necessarily make you wiser. Generally people are fully competent at puberty.

Well, competence and development are two separate issues, but honestly, you're pretty much wrong, and wrongly evaluating a pretty reputable way to study the brain. Plus, I'm not going to believe you over a wealth of documentation in regard to brain development. There are further key elements of mental development that generally speaking don't show until early 20s: specifically, the full understanding of mortality. Most 18-20 year olds still, whether consciously or subconsciously have an invincibility complex, that makes them popular military recruits.

Have you ever heard of the rubber band effect? If you keep holding your child back year after year when they finally get a chance to do whatever it is they are just going to let loose.

The Rubber Band Effect doesn't exist, at least not in the context you speak of. So either you're making it up, or are misusing it.

It's not about reciprocation, it's just all about me,
a sycophantic, prophetic, Socratic junkie wannabe.
- The 1975, "The Sound"

At 7/19/2013 10:37:54 PM, Fanny wrote:Teenagers have very little control over their lives. They can't make healthcare decisions, especially vaccines, their parents decide what goes into their body, even when they have the mental ability to decide for themselves.

Untrue. In many American states, mature minor doctrines are in place granting teenagers the power to accept or refuse medical treatment of their own volition.

But they still have less rights in terms of medical treatment, even if they are competent to decide. And these rules only apply to minors aged 16-17, not 14-15.

They can't get a job without a parent's permission and permission from the state based on a medical exam

So? Honestly, they can still get a job, and that's something to be said for someone not considered in the majority.

They should be able to get a job without parental or state permission and should not have to have a medical exam if they want a job.

they can't leave their home without their parent's permission or they will be considered a "runaway" and cops will arrest them, bring them home and put them in juvenile justice

Not necessarily. Generally speaking a teen may be out without parental permission unless it's past curfew.

Not true. You are completely clueless of runaway laws. In Minnesota, a runaway is legally defines as ""an unmarried child under the age of 18 years, who is absent from the home of a parent, guardian, or other lawful placement without the consent of the parent, guardian, or lawful custodian. Their parents can even restrain them for trying to leave.

and anything they buy, even with their own money, can be taken from them by their parents at any time for any reason. What kind of freedom is that?

Again, untrue. Property rights do extend to pretty much anyone if property is bought with a person's OWN money.

You are incorrect. Their parents can take away the ipod. If a teenager buys a laptop with THEIR OWN MONEY, their parents can still require it has parental controls and they only use it for 1 hour a day.

It's a common myth that the human brain is not fully developed till 25. The study just restrained teens and adults to an MRI machine and had them perform the same tasks. Teens and adults performed EQUALLY well, but brain activity varied in teens and adults. The brain is fully competent at puberty. Our brains develop throughout life. A 40 year old will become a different person when he's 70. Experiences shape the brain but doesn't necessarily make you wiser. Generally people are fully competent at puberty.

Well, competence and development are two separate issues, but honestly, you're pretty much wrong, and wrongly evaluating a pretty reputable way to study the brain. Plus, I'm not going to believe you over a wealth of documentation in regard to brain development. There are further key elements of mental development that generally speaking don't show until early 20s: specifically, the full understanding of mortality. Most 18-20 year olds still, whether consciously or subconsciously have an invincibility complex, that makes them popular military recruits.

Yes competence and brain development ate 2 different things, competence, not brain development, is favorable to make good decisions. When someone demonstrates they are able to understand the complexities of a decision and can appreciate the nature of future consequences of a decision they make, they should be able to make that decision. "Fully developed" brain doesn't equal competence. 18 year olds are popular military recruits because they are looking to do something after high school so this option might be one of them. It's not because they are more likely to join.

Have you ever heard of the rubber band effect? If you keep holding your child back year after year when they finally get a chance to do whatever it is they are just going to let loose.

The Rubber Band Effect doesn't exist, at least not in the context you speak of. So either you're making it up, or are misusing it.

At 7/19/2013 10:37:54 PM, Fanny wrote:Teenagers have very little control over their lives. They can't make healthcare decisions, especially vaccines, their parents decide what goes into their body, even when they have the mental ability to decide for themselves. They can't get a job without a parent's permission and permission from the state based on a medical exam, they can't leave their home without their parent's permission or they will be considered a "runaway" and cops will arrest them, bring them home and put them in juvenile justice and anything they buy, even with their own money, can be taken from them by their parents at any time for any reason. What kind of freedom is that?

It's a common myth that the human brain is not fully developed till 25. The study just restrained teens and adults to an MRI machine and had them perform the same tasks. Teens and adults performed EQUALLY well, but brain activity varied in teens and adults. The brain is fully competent at puberty. Our brains develop throughout life. A 40 year old will become a different person when he's 70. Experiences shape the brain but doesn't necessarily make you wiser. Generally people are fully competent at puberty.

Have you ever heard of the rubber band effect? If you keep holding your child back year after year when they finally get a chance to do whatever it is they are just going to let loose.

Just my opinion but I got to know my kids really well, and was able to judge their maturity, critical thinking skills, and decision making ability. I allowed them to weigh in on decisions that affected them, and if I disagreed then I talked to them and explained why it was important for them to do it a different way than what they thought would be best.

Parents can be too restrictive and protective, but they can also be too liberal. There is a fine line separating those two extremes, but there is no black and white, one-size-fits-all answer. Some kids demonstrate maturity and good decision making skills, others don't seem to have a bit of common sense. Where that line falls depends on the child, and the parent is responsible for the child and has to make those decisions.

As a teen myself I have never really had a problem with my parents or the law forcing me to do anything. I had the choice of having flu jabs from about the age of 14 which I think is fine to be honest. After that I didn't accept them.

I would say that until a child can UNDERSTAND the responsibility of making decisions they shouldn't be allowed to make them. Explain the outcomes of taking vaccines as well as telling them what they are actually getting and how it works.

Voting for under 18's wouldn't work either as I'm sure (correct me if I'm wrong) Making people pay to vote makes them care about it only if its a little. This way only when you are working and annoyingly paying large amounts of tax to your governments they allow you to vote because you are part of that little society.

Freedom is freedom. Parental care is parental care. One is more important at a young age especially as they have a moral responsibility to protect you. No we don't need looser laws or more rights just a better interaction between the young people of tomorrow and the pioneers of yesterday. Put down those age egos!

At 7/19/2013 10:37:54 PM, Fanny wrote:Teenagers have very little control over their lives. They can't make healthcare decisions, especially vaccines, their parents decide what goes into their body, even when they have the mental ability to decide for themselves. They can't get a job without a parent's permission and permission from the state based on a medical exam, they can't leave their home without their parent's permission or they will be considered a "runaway" and cops will arrest them, bring them home and put them in juvenile justice and anything they buy, even with their own money, can be taken from them by their parents at any time for any reason. What kind of freedom is that?

It's a common myth that the human brain is not fully developed till 25. The study just restrained teens and adults to an MRI machine and had them perform the same tasks. Teens and adults performed EQUALLY well, but brain activity varied in teens and adults. The brain is fully competent at puberty. Our brains develop throughout life. A 40 year old will become a different person when he's 70. Experiences shape the brain but doesn't necessarily make you wiser. Generally people are fully competent at puberty.

Have you ever heard of the rubber band effect? If you keep holding your child back year after year when they finally get a chance to do whatever it is they are just going to let loose.

I find it funny that you're arguing for more "rights" for teens and the numbers of people living at home in their parents' house into their late twenties is severely rising.(http://www.pewsocialtrends.org...)

I'm curious as to your assessment that children are capable of making their own medical decisions and financial decisions and what age you think this ability starts. These laws were put in place because parents, not society are the best judges of their own children's abilities and ideally would be the most likely to look out for their interests. While there are always going to be exceptions, I'm not going to be likely to listen to an opposing argument on that, particularly one from any teenager that might be claiming their parents don't love them because...(Fill in blank).

I agree with your rubber band argument. You should work on developing your children into responsible adults. This isn't really happening, currently. We've lost the ability or desire to answer the "Why?" question and lost authority over our own children and think we have to let them "make their own decisions." Which, I suppose, is proof that you are incable of making intelligient decisions and they're likely better off that way.

However, parents need to be able to reign their children if they are going the wrong direction and taking that ability away will be highly destructive in children's lives. Experience does make a difference. Views change. Young people do NOT have the same ability to assess long term effects, nor do they have the ability to respond reasonably to threats at times. Both of these characteristics have been documented.

You're going to have to define that word competent. In what? How competent?

I have observed that there is one position in any society that wishes to seperate young from their parents: The predator. I've heard this argument you're presenting most often from those that want to lower the age of consent for sexual activities so they can get at young children and use them up. That doesn't imply that you are one of those people, but I do want to demonstrate the high risk in accepting this sort of reasoning wholesale. It is dangerous and thoughtless.

I'm sorry. I meant to add that there's one other way for parents to send their kids off into the wild unknown: To not give them any rules. It has an even worse effect because kids that have rules eventually come back to them when they get tired of running from their parents and grow up. If you never give them rules, they have no comprehension of how to follow them.

It takes a balanced approach to parenting. It's a thin line and every parent should be able to dictate where that line is drawn for their own children.

Yes you are right. Teens lack many rights and privileges adults take for granted. Young people today are treated in a similar manner as blacks and women of the past. They have curfews, their opinions are dismissed (no voting or petitioning). They are forced to become insignificant, dependent, and stupid, by being given no say in anything (outside of the very narrow realm of school voting and petitions). They are owned by their parents, who do provide the basic needs, but make everything else a "privilege" because anything they buy, even with their own money they worked for, can be controlled by their parents (i.E. Parents can set rules for a teens use of laptop the teen paid for with their own money) and can take it away at any time for any reason up until the age 18. In some stores they can't buy permanent markers, dry ice, M-rated games, or even hand sanitizer just because 6 teens extracted it's alcohol and drank it. They have no say in their education and are portrayed as drugs and being oversexed similar to how blacks in early broadway were portrayed. And this is all because a couple of morons said, "their brains are not developed" because of a study on a small amount of the population.

In a way, I would say yes. However, I believe the last the we should do is take the power out of the hands of the parents any more than it already is. Look at our youth. The parents need to be able to manipulate their children so as to make their children better adults.

On a side note, giving a teen more legal rights also goes with punishing them more for their mistakes. I do not really like this.