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Re: Smart Shikamaru

Originally Posted by ~Scream~

Edit:[/B][/I] And if someone like Tobi comments so highly on him, what more proof to consider him smart do you want? Or do you think that Tobi's comment was referring to Shikamaru's strength, in which case this thread is a waste of time.

I think it's because Tobi has a personal relationship with Shikamaru. He regrets having to hurt him, but he plans to change the timeline anyway so, meh..

Re: Smart Shikamaru

How about catching 8 Sound jounins in a trap? If that's not smart I don't know what is. And he was 12 and a genin at the time...

If that is the smartest thing you have seen then :sy:

Originally Posted by WindStyleKamehaShuriken

Shikamaru is a genius look at his fights vs tayuya and hidan

Vs tayuya
Memorizes movements by watching fingers all while tryna to avoid 3 massive summonings
Breaks genjutsu and hides because he knows the only weapon she has is her flutes and knows she will try and use his kunai against him

Not impressed let's look at the whole hindan kakuzu confrontation
1st he completely figures out hogans curse while struggling to keep hidan in shadow possession and saving asumas ass (just for a little while longer)
2nd meeting he originally planned to kill kakuzu using the chakra blade and taking over hidan to kill him didn't know about kakuzus earth style abilities so he escapes but wait Shikamaru has Kakashi wait in hiding to get a vital hit on kakuzu
But kakuzu has 5 harts and doesn't die
Shikamarus plan is still not foiled hey Kakashi get some of kakuzus blood and imma take hidan away and make him take out his own partners heart
Very very very few ppl in the narutoverse could come up with a plan and have that much success

The only part that I see is smart is getting Kakashi to take a sample of blood.
The trap had prep time.
My little brother figured out the curse thingy before Shikamaru did.
Im pretty sure the everything before was a decoy and the only smart thing was getting the blood sample because he already know Hidans ability, he would not be able to kill an S-ranked ninja with a simple chakra blade plan.

Originally Posted by Dayco

Hi all, here is my 2 cents on the matter.

The word genius can take on three forms:

1 - Innate Genius
2 - Intellectual Genius
3 - Will-powered Genius

1 - Innate Genius
As a real life example, imagine a person who can sing tunes in perfect notes and scales. This person innately has the ability to understand and translate notes from the mind through the mouth. They have an ability which can be extremely above average and hence be considered a 'genius' since they have an affinity to music. The same can be said about people who have amazing food pallets, great vision for art, etc...

In this instance, we can imagine ninjas such as Itachi & Neji to be Innate geniuses of their respective clans since they have the affinity and mental/physical ability to utilise their clan's bloodline limits to a higher level than normal. The same can be said about Madara, Hashirama. I consider them to be Innate geniuses as well.

2 - Intellectual Genius
In real life, people who are able to use their mental capacity to augment regular mental tasks such as maths, multi-tasking & leadership to a high level can also be considered geniuses. Such individuals do not have special affinities for particular senses but have incredible mental power to think outside-the-box and from various perspectives. They are able to strategise, calculate and process information quickly. This is the high IQ bracket.

Ninjas such as Kakashi, Orochimaru, Shikaku & Shikamaru are thought to be geniuses in this area and are highlighted in the manga as such. Although they have impressive hidden ninjutsu, their intellect is more impressive and therefore they gain the benefit of outsmarting their opponents in a much better way than others can.

Kakashi vs. Pain was an excellent example of intellectual genius
Shikamaru vs. Hidan BEFORE the separate part was another example (kage mane upon contact)
Shikaku is obvious and so is Orochimaru.

Shikamaru stands out in one major area. Others such as Naruto and Neji are very smart in combat and can come up with great tactics, however Shikamaru is capable of knowing and choosing the perfect tactic within the circumstances that he is forced to be in.

3 - Will-powered Genius
This is where Naruto, Lee & Guy excell. Since practice makes 'perfect', this is the best form of genius. Never giving up and always learning, aquiring more experience and using it to come up with better tactics gradually.

In any given situation, if you place Neji, Shikamaru and Naruto in the same combat scenario, they will all strategise really well, however, Neji will excell because of hidden ninjutsu, Shikamaru will excell because of intellectual strategy and Naruto will excell because of his will power.

When you consider Hiruzen, I would say he is an Intellectual Genius
When you consider Hashirama, I would say he is an Innate Genius
When you consider Jiraiya, I would say he is a Will-powered Genius

There will forever be arguments about this, but this is the best way I understand it.
I hope you enjoyed the read

Great post!!!

I do believe the author could have given better examples of Shikamaru being smart. I don't disagree on him being smart but I just don't think he is the smartest from the things he has done. The author has tried to portray to us that Shikamaru is smart but hasn't been really shown in detail. I would have to say the most intellectual battle from my memory would have to be Sasuke vs Deidara

Re: Smart Shikamaru

There aren't any, everything he has ever done was hardly impressive and the opponent outplayed him or beat him in every way possible every single time.

Pretty much every other average character has implemented far better strategies than he has ever done and is much smarter.

People are just too stupid to realize this, because Kishi doesn't outright say "THIS IS A STRATEGY, AND THIS CHARACTER IS SMART" unlike with Shikamaru which is the only time he's actually pointed it out. Which forces the mindless reader to believe Shika is the only character with brains which in fact is the near opposite.

Re: Smart Shikamaru

Originally Posted by kingkwong

Great post!!!

I do believe the author could have given better examples of Shikamaru being smart. I don't disagree on him being smart but I just don't think he is the smartest from the things he has done. The author has tried to portray to us that Shikamaru is smart but hasn't been really shown in detail.

I would have to say the most intellectual battle from my memory would have to be Sasuke vs Deidara

Thank you.

But I disagree with the Deidara battle being the most intellectual batte. The most intellectual battle for me was Hidan and Kakuzu part 1 AND part 2.

You mentioned this:

My little brother figured out the curse thingy before Shikamaru did.

We humans of course figure out everything before the characters in the manga. We know we are reading a fantasy story. To them, they are living in a normal world. They certainly cannot expect anyone who uses blood curses from a god or even someone who is immortal lol

Shikamaru is smarter than all the peers of his age in terms of IQ. He is able to calculate and think more clearly under pressure than the others.

If you look at the rest of the rookie 11, they were all out-smarted various times in a major way. I do not think anyone outsmarted Shikamaru except the time when he trapped 8 Chunins and there was a 9th one watching.

Sasuke vs. Deidara was a great fight, however, the reason Sasuke won is because he is better at his bloodline limit than he is at IQ. He is able to use his sharingan and genjutsu to a more impressive level than using his mind to calculate. I think that if Sasuke's ability to use the Sharingan was at the same level of Shikamaru using his kage mane, Sasuke would have died a long time ago because what makes Sasuke special is not how smart he is, but how good he is at using the Sharingan.

Remember when Sasuke BROKE Tsukyomi with ONLY sharingan? Itachi commended him and Zetsu mentioned that Sharingan is just a tool but Sasuke is amazing at using this tool.

Shikamaru is more impressive at using his mind to calculate than he is at using his bloodline limit.

I think the smartest of the rookie 12 is Shikamaru, followed by Shino then Sasuke then Neji.

None of this is reallyhappening. There is a man.With a typewriter. This is allpart of his crazy imagination

Re: Smart Shikamaru

Originally Posted by Whiteknight

Exactly, and that's the thing. Take Neji as another example. He was really advanced with the gentle fist when he was younger, but is he really a "genius"? You would expect somebody who has many jutsu and is versatile to be called a genius. Neji is a very talented fighter, but when he gets into fights he has predictable weaknesses: He has no ranged attacks, his strongest and most reliable attacks are very close range and mostly defensive. His various gentle palm techniques require physical contact which can't be done with a fast-moving or a ranged opponent. You would expect a "genius" to understand limitations and develop at least a few techniques to balance those.

Shikamaru is a decent fighter and maybe even a natural leader, but look at the character as a whole: He has only one real technique in his arsenal (and we don't know if he's better than his father for example), that technique has limited range and utility, and his other techniques (Taijutsu) are not special. How do we call him a genius?

I keep bringing up Naruto, because he's the perfect counter-example. Naruto has been called an idiot by himself and others throughout the entire manga. However, Naruto has more techniques mastered than Neji or Shikamaru have demonstrated, he's extremely clever and versatile in battle, and has mastered several S rank techniques through difficult training. His mastery of Sage mode as a teenager is better than Jiraya's as an old man. His mastery of Rasengan, a technique known to be extremely difficult, is relatively high (he can't form it with one hand or do it as quickly, but he can make more variations of it and use it in complicated situations).

My only point is that people say Shikamaru is a genius but he never does anything that a genius would do. People say Naruto is an idiot, but he wins difficult battles through clever and careful planning and advanced techniques.

you call him a genius because of his intellectual levels not his physical capabilities.

Re: Smart Shikamaru

Originally Posted by kingkwong

How can you figure out the opponents technique if you don't have all the information? He makes a plan in his head with many different senarios, that I don't disagree on but do you actually think other ninjas don't do that? You cannot just look at the opponent and know everything about them. Ninjas are all about secrets. Its not possible to calculate the outcome but due to the plot of Naruto, he is always made to look smart about it. Tobi saying that is just another quote saying how smart he is with no actual proof.

Finally someone that understands . His jutsu is versatile but being his only technique he should be good at it or at least make better use of it. I don't see why he doesn't use a wider ranger of techniques if he is such a tactition, rather than focusing on one jutsu. I find Sasuke battle against Deidara a very intelectual battle, if people can see past the action and bombs.

good lord are you just trolling? want the prime example of shikamaru being a tactician prodigy...he has been called it numerous times, which means kishi wrote it numerous times so kishi has intended for him to be a tactical prodigy. Will we ever have many good manga issue examples? probably not but thats because the manga is NARUTO not flippin SHIKAMARU...you talk of taking into account energy and stamina and thinking hundreds of moves ahead as not being tactically gifted...well buddy i bet ole stephen hawkins could beat you in about everything but a jerk off contest but he has no energy so is he not a genius? Your argument is flawed because you ask for main character style details of someone who will never be a main character. You may as well make an argument saying tenten isnt a girl because kishi never draws her goods hanging out.

Re: Smart Shikamaru

Shikamaru's greatest trait despite his adolescent age is his mental capacities, most noticeably as a strategist and tactician; great enough to outsmart an entire squadron of Oto-nin who were stated to be of chūnin-level or above. While Asuma often played shōgi against Shikamaru, Asuma noted that he had never actually managed to beat him. Asuma became suspicious upon realising that Shikamaru was so good at these strategy-based board games, despite his abysmal grades in the Academy. As a result, Asuma administered an IQ test disguised as a game to Shikamaru, which revealed that Shikamaru's intelligence was beyond that of a normal genius, with an IQ of over 200 which is regarded as IMMEASURABLE intelligence. His intelligence has earned praise from the likes of Kakashi Hatake, who himself is also considered a genius, and Tobi, who considers him a regrettable to be an opponent. In the anime, Sakura Haruno — who is also noted for her intelligence — once stated that Shikamaru was the smartest person in the Land of fire. His intelligence is also highly adaptable, regularly using it to out-think his opponents, even manipulate them into a pre-set trap with various misdirections. Shikamaru is very resourceful, able to use the most random of tools to his advantage. His analysis doubles as a way for him to avoid a fight, or at least minimise injuries for himself or his allies.

From these traits, Shikamaru is able to easily focus on all data acquired to quickly and effectively analyse the situation to discern how an opponent's techniques works, devise counters, anticipate enemy actions, and quickly form effective plans; the pinnacle of his focus is commonly seen from his habit of putting his fingers together to create a circle and closing his eyes. After doing this he can quickly think ten moves ahead of his opponent with over a hundred strategies ready to be used, but his real skill is choosing the best one.Likewise, he can easily adjust or switch to an alternate plan at a moment's notice.

BECAUSE OF HIS INTELLIGENCE, Asuma believes that Shikamaru could become Hokage if he weren't so lazy. He is nevertheless given his share of responsibilities, such as helping the Fifth Hokage formulate defensive strategies and being made the Proxy Commander of the Fourth Division in the Fourth Shinobi World War. It is also mentionable the incredible intelectual feats of other ninja, however, those ninja had stringth, ninjutsu or background knowledge to support there win. Shikamaru has very few/low ninjutsu, genjutsu, and/or taijutsu yet manages to take down impressively tough foes. One could say that wile other genius ninja uses intelligence IN a fight, he uses it TO fight and also rarely losses. Able to plan not just a few, but OVER 200 accurate moves into the future, He is the smartest ninja aline currently. And might be the smartest ninja in the naruto universe. (As possibly intended by kishi)

Re: Smart Shikamaru

Shikamaru is a Master of Logic, able to innately analyze all possible outcomes to a situation base on all available data at the time and base on this come up with all available solutions base on available resources that are at had. A very powerful access to have.

Re: Smart Shikamaru

Originally Posted by El Batman

In battle and quick thinking i think Naruto is smarter. I mean Naruto has accomplished things that very few if any people have.
However, when it comes to planning and team strategy Shikamaru is wayyyy smarter.

Also having nearly unlimited Chakra Reserves seems to help Naruto a lot
Naruto generally has greater resources of power than most

Re: Smart Shikamaru

Originally Posted by Oriver

Also having nearly unlimited Chakra Reserves seems to help Naruto a lot
Naruto generally has greater resources of power than most

Oriver

Naruto is strong, that is for sure.he's far better as a ninja then shika, But in no way smarter. Shikamaru doesn't have allot of chakra or speed or flashy ninjutsu to get him outa situations. While other ninja have done some intelligent things in this series. Shikamaru is the one ninja to win fights using intellect alone.its safe to say hat wile beating a high lvl ninja my take some cunning,(for exp sasuke "beating" daidara), doing it with no jutsu (nin, tai, or gen) may require more thought.like how shika beat Hiram(member of akatski, beat the 2 tails..... is immortal) with nothing but careful planing,a very good trap, a needle, and a lighter.... he also did it wile loring him into that deadly forest.

Re: Smart Shikamaru

Shikamaru is THE most intelligent character in the narutoverse. Deal with it. Kakashi and Shikamaru's dad would come very closely behind. Naruto on the other hand has quick wits and just plain dumb luck alot of the time which is also good.

Point being if Shikamaru had the chakra that naruto does and was a Jinchuriki....... God have mercy on the enemy. Fatality.