Anxiously awaiting a comment from Loyola2L, err the Law Blog commenter formerly known as Loyola2L

5:22 pm June 28, 2011

Anon in California wrote:

California does have a tremendous oversupply of lawyers. One of the obvious drawbacks of hiring a lawyer in California is they all compete like sharks for the dollars from the clients. If you are out of money, you are stuck with a CJA Attorney who actually works for the judges and not the Defendant. Case in point is U.S.A. vs. Bennett Case No. SA CR 030025, Central District of California. The federal Defendant, James Davis Bennett, was stuck with a court-appointed lawyer (Michael S. Meza) who actually worked for the crooked federal judge (Alicemarie H. Stotler) and together with U.S. Attorney Brett A. Sagel, proceeded to frame and sentence the innocent Defendant to 10 Years in federal prison. Now, 5 years later, Bennett is still fighting to get out of prison and, once again, is stuck with CJA Attorney Robison Harley, Jr.. Harley only cares about getting paid as a CJA Attorney and has no interest in defending an innocent man. We should shut down many of the law schools in California and go for quality instead of quantity.

5:55 pm June 28, 2011

Do not go to law school. wrote:

Do not go to law school. I have been practicing 21 years and if I earn $40, 000 this year it will be a miracle. I know many many attorneys who are much better than me and are in the same boat. One guy I know, gave up the ghost and had his own office since the mid-eighties, a Lexus SUV, a nice home, and Eurpopean Vacations. Governments are shedding attorneys, law firms are breaking apart, and unemployment is rampant. I have had two interviews in three years after applying to hundreds of job and I am expereicned. One friend of mine whose son wants to go to law school, asked me about it. I discouraged it and begged him not to send his kid to law school. The father hasn't spoken to me since. Denial.

Recent Sup. Ct. decision [AT&T] allowing arbitration will spark lots of low level activity for lawyers moving cases from the Courts to the arbiters quick and dirty dispute resolution. As a result more things will be disputed and create entry level jobs or low level opportunities for lawyers in California and other states that used to prohibit mandatory arbitration in adhesion (consumer) contracts. Work will be moved from the Courts to the private sector dispute resolution forums. Over time these disputes will become more contentious as litigious Plaintiffs seek various consumer protection money sanctions and less knowledgable or experienced arbiters will make outrageous awards for causes of action that otherwise would have been ignored as the case was too expensive to litigate so they just settle out for a good chunk of cash and attorney's fees..

CJA lawyers are very good, in my observation. Never heard of the Bennett case. Have no reason to believe a judge is corrupt and still on the bench.

6:53 pm June 28, 2011

It's about time! wrote:

This country has absolutely too many friggen' attorneys! Go sell used cars or something!!

11:16 pm June 28, 2011

Genius wrote:

That's a great idea. Let's put many of our most intelligent people to work selling used cars. Typical hay seed hick moron.

1:12 am June 29, 2011

Blake Esq. wrote:

Why doesnt the ABA do somthing about this... This bothers me so much. It's like the ABA doesn't care about the over supply of attorney's and look the other way with no empathy. The article true or not, we all know there are more lawyers than jobs so lets just agree with that. Law is a selective profession in society from the beginning and at the hands of the ABA decision making officials we are letting this profession fall. We are lawyers and we will not let this happen!!!!!!! This is what we believe in. The ABA is accountable for these mishaps and excess supply of lawyers and rather than blaming on other things WE NEED TO HOLD ABA ACCOUNTABLE. I have stopped my membership dues to them. Let them it cake if they don't care.

3:01 am June 29, 2011

Anonymous wrote:

"and maybe even unemployment"- are you kidding me, this is almost guaranteed. You should say "maybe even a job."

8:41 am June 29, 2011

Texas wrote:

The ABA should not limit supply. It should make law schools accurately and completely report employment statistics. School loans should almost never be 100%, the students should have some perceived immediate "skin in the game". Beyond that, let the free market decide. Hopefully the poor schools will start to close, the better schools will start to care more about the education their law students are getting than how much money they are bringing in and prospective students will have their eyes wide open when they make the decision to go or not go.

9:39 am June 29, 2011

anon wrote:

If the ABA won't do it, then lawsuits against the crappy schools under state consumer protection laws may be the answer.

did this correct for the fact that many people either pass mulitple bars or pass a bar already having practiced & been employeed for a while?

2:27 pm June 29, 2011

muggers wrote:

LSTB's analysis at 1224 might be relevant but are the numbers accurate? One chart in that link says there were 970 job openings in DC in a year. I find that impossible to believe.

2:56 pm June 29, 2011

BW wrote:

The aggregate statistics are sobering, but the state specific info is not particularly meaningful. A number of attorneys at large firms who practice in a number of locales take the NY bar, but wind up never practicing there. I'm sure there are more lawyers in NY than are needed but this study certainly overstates that number.

4:27 pm June 29, 2011

NO MORE ATTORNEYS wrote:

There are lines of unemployed people snaking for blocks at Walmarts, Targets, hotels. They announce 300 jobs and 3000 people show up. That ratio/chance for getting a job is not bad. When a law position is annonced by the federal government or other legal employers, my Senator and HR people tell me that they might recieive 2,000 resumes for one job. Lottery anyone?

12:18 am June 30, 2011

Scott, JD wrote:

@ Blake - I have also stopped my dues to the ABA. If they don't have respect for us neither do we for them. I hope to start a nationwide protest in the next couple of months. To all readers please write to the ABA and inform them of all the disgust they have given us through their poor leadership.

12:37 am June 30, 2011

Amanda wrote:

I am with you guys a 100% Just revealing the law school employment and income stats isn't going to resolve the issue here. The american bar association should be accountable for loss in income lawyers earn and jobs. Just like the American Medical Association limits docs, the ABA should follow that same model. It's common sense (supply & demand) If you have more supply then demand you are going to face fierce competition. This has lil to do with the current economy, though it did have an effect... lawyer jobs have been decreasing pre-recession. Money isn't everything but a lawyer does need to earn for his services. I dont think earning 50K yr (if your lucky) is a worthwhile living. Its like telling your Doc to make $50K. ummm . I don't think that will fly... The funny part is that no one doesnt anything about it and we just take it in the face.

2:12 pm July 5, 2011

MR MAGOO wrote:

STOP KVETCHING. YOU LAZY DEPENDENT WHINERS HAVE A LICENSE. HANG OUT A SHINGLE. GET CLIENTS. PERFORM THEIR LEGAL WORK. GET PAID. BE A REAL LAWYER NOT SOME MINDLESS PAPER PUSHER.

anything bad that happens to lawyers is a good thing. The world needs more doctors, more engineers, more skilled tradesmen and more (good) teachers; it does not need more lawyers.

1:41 am October 12, 2011

blaine wrote:

why don't some of you snakes in a suit - or business dress (lots of white females go into the law because then they can stick it to fathers in a custody fight or scream "harassment" to destroy someone else's career) - use those "brains" you profess to have and go into medicine? That is a noble profession and you actually help people. Only problem is, you can't lie or fake your way through medical school (for the most part) and being a creative liar might actually be a professional debit.

3:35 am October 28, 2011

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8:25 pm November 4, 2011

Thomas T. Lee, PhD., PE wrote:

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5:25 am November 5, 2011

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2:45 pm November 5, 2011

AngeLaw wrote:

I am not really outraged at the fact that I have been a licensed attorney for 4 years now and I have been unemployed for the last 3 years, because every field in the country is going through it. Many college and post-college grads are in the same boat or worse. What does outrage me are these people who think that we are nothing but money-grubbing materialistic brats who will only settle for jobs offering salaries of at least $75,000. And yes, I have a mountain of debt which is only further accruing as we speak since I am unable to pay ANY amount at this point (unemployment benefits ran out about 6 months ago). SO, I have started teaching myself the fine craft of writing so that I can at least be producing something instead of just sitting around and "looking for a job" anymore. If I've learned anything from this economy and the "Occupy" protests, it's that we cannot rely on our government or "big business" to make it happen for us...if you want a good retirement, you HAVE to make it happen for yourself. Start your own business or produce your own creative works. To me, the worst part about looking for a legal job right now is that the majority (NOT ALL!) of the places at which I have already worked in the legal field, and seemingly many of the firms/law offices that currently have openings are downright corrupt or at least questionably ethical. Why were ethics pounded into my head all the while through law school and through seeking and gaining admission to two different state bars, when it seems that many of the "successful" attorneys now don't seem to be following the rules? And frankly, you're not going to fit in at any job like that if you don't play by the FIRM'S rules. Just my personal opinion, and well, I'm a little jaded...

6:37 pm November 22, 2011

PIED PIPER wrote:

This country has had it's best days. Those were the 1970's and 1980's. Things will never be the same again in the legal field. Especially for attorneys. I sincerely wish this were not so. I am an attorney myself. This country refused to change with the world as it changed. This information revolution and globalization hit this country hard. Obama has no answers. Nobody does. I really feel you hurt AngelLaw. All we can do is pray and hope. I suggest you watch the movie INSIDE JOB it will make you boil with anger as to what some people have done to this country.

The situation with law school graduates unable to find work is a glimpse of what has happened in part to the entire economy. Once thought of safe professions and basically quick access to work are not being questioned and tested. The term look before you leap should now be a most students think about before they take any step toward their major including law because it is tough out there for many people including lawyers.

Law schools and law professors don't care if you get a job or not. They do not care about the students, period. They play head games with you for 3 years, take your money, and laugh. They teach very few useful, real world skills in law school. They grade on the basis of one final, written exam at the end of each semester. The written exam is graded in a highly subjective manner. You could get an F or A, depending on whether the prof "likes" what you write. I would advise anyone to think twice about going to law school, its a huge gamble with money.

12:24 pm December 15, 2012

marve wrote:

I am looking for a smart aggressive attorney to prepare my cases with me, a pro se victim of a letigeous society and a bad divorce. where do i find a smart person so we both make money and i clean my name up

6:58 pm February 26, 2013

George Callas wrote:

Never could pass the Calif. BAR EXAM despite the fact I studied for it 13 separate times I took it. Looking back, I am thrilled I never did. Heard of too many attorneys dropping dead because of the pressure in their 40's. The pressure to "excel" and outdo your "peers" is murderous. I ended up as insurance adjuster where I stayed until retirement age. Strangely, I worked alongside lots of other guys like me who never could pass the BAR, music majors, welfare workers, etc. All in all, failing at any single thing is NOT an impediment to enjoying a long happy life. It's all at how you look at things. Personally when I flunked the son of a bitch the 13th time and became suicidal, I made up my mind to "hang it up". No license is worth thinking about committing suicide, like one poor bastard did who couldn't pass it after only the 4wth time because he ws so embarassed, he couldn't live with himself. What a crock. I was very happy taking auto portraits, doing scene investigations, taking statements, writing reports for insurnce carriers and never had to worry about "peer pressure". all in all would do it the same way again if I had to. P.S. Nowadays you can't even get a job as an adjuster in California unless you are fluent in Spanish. Being a bilingual was not a prerequisite to any job in California until only recently when the Democratic party bastardized the U.s. economy by selling out to the highest bidder mexico.. .

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