People familiar with the internal negotiations say Gov. Andrew Cuomo and legislative leaders have a tentative deal to enact the nation's first gun control measure following the Newtown, Conn., school shooting.

Legislation based on emotion and steamrolled through soon after a tragedy is always works out well. Why not restrict cars to 25 miles an hour because someone without a license drives drunk and kills a bunch of people?

6
posted on 01/14/2013 8:58:33 AM PST
by Brooklyn Attitude
(Obama being re-elected is the political equivalent of OJ being found not guilty.)

Just another NYS law on the books for law abiding citizens to obey. The criminal element have their own rules to follow and need not even be concerned over another law being added to the books. All the NYS laws have already shown how well they have deterred shootings. They continue to use Liberal Logic to all their problems. 7 round magazines? So 4 mags = 28 rounds or how many guns can you carry and have 7 rounds in each? AGRRRRRRRRR.

7
posted on 01/14/2013 9:01:08 AM PST
by Bringbackthedraft
(Who we elect is not as important as who they bring in with them.)

together with the right to support and defend them in the best manner they can.

These are evident branches of, rather than deductions from, the duty of self-preservation,

commonly called the first law of nature...

In short, it is the greatest absurdity to suppose it in the power of one, or any number of men, at the entering into society, to renounce their essential natural rights, or the means of preserving those rights;

when the grand end of civil government, from the very nature of its institution, is for the support, protection, and defence of those very rights; the principal of which, as is before observed, are Life, Liberty, and Property.

If men, through fear, fraud, or mistake, should in terms renounce or give up any essential natural right, the eternal law of reason and the grand end of society would absolutely vacate such renunciation. The right to freedom being the gift of God Almighty,

it is not in the power of man to alienate this gift and voluntarily become a slave."

It's time to mock the "Gun Control" Zombies! "Gun Control" is a firm grip, steady breathing, accurate aim (developed by lots of practice), and a slow trigger pull.

The Swiss have got it CORRECT ! We need to learn from the Swiss and implement their "gun control measures" here in the United States right now, today! These laws are the ones we should shove into the "2nd Amendment Haters" faces.

" Today, military service for Swiss males is universal. At about age 20, every Swiss male goes through 118 consecutive days of recruit training in the Rekrutenschule. ...

Even before required training begins, young men and women may take optional courses with the Swiss army's M57 assault rifle. They keep that gun at home for three months and receive six half-day training sessions.

From age 21 to 32, a Swiss man serves as a "frontline" troop in the Auszug, and devotes three weeks a year (in eight of the 12 years) to continued training. From age 33 to 42, he serves in the Landwehr (like America's National Guard); every few years, he reports for two-week training periods. Finally, from ages 43, to 50, he serves in the Landsturm; in this period, he only spends 13 days total in "home guard courses."

Over a soldier's career he also spends scattered days on mandatory equipment inspections and required target practice. Thus, in a 30-year mandatory military career, a Swiss man only spends about one year in direct military service. Following discharge from the regular army, men serve on reserve status until age 50 (55 for officers).

By the Federal Constitution of 1874, military servicemen are given their first equipment, clothing and arms.After the first training period, conscripts must keep gun, ammunition and equipment an ihrem Wohnort ("in their homes") until the end of their term of service.

Today, enlisted men are issued M57 AUTOMATIC assault rifles and officers are given pistol. Each reservist is issued 24 rounds of ammunition in sealed packs for emergency use.

(Contrary to Handgun Control's claim that "all ammunition must be accounted for," the emergency ammunition is the only ammo that requires accounting.)

After discharge from service, the man is given a bolt rifle free from registration or obligation.Starting in the 1994, the government will GIVE ex-reservists assault rifles. Officers carry pistols rather than rifles and are given their pistols the end of their service.

When the government adopts a new infantry rifle, it sells the old ones to the public.

Reservists are encouraged to buy MILITARY ammunition

(7.5 and 5.6mm-5.56 mm in other countries-for rifles and 9 and 7.65 mm Luger for pistols)

which is sold AT COST by the government, for target practice .Non-military ammunition for long-gun hunting and .22 Long Rifle (LR) ammo are not subsidised, but are subiect to NO sales controls. Non-military non-hunting ammunition more powerful than .22 LR (such as .38 Spl.) is registered at the time of sale.

Swiss military ammo must be registered IF bought at a private store, BUT NEED NOT BE REGISTERED IF bought at a range.The nation's 3,000 shooting ranges sell the overwhelming majority of ammunition. Technically, ammunition bought at the range must be used at the range, but the rule is barely known and almost never obeyed.

The army SELLS a variety of machine guns, submachine guns, anti-tank weapons, anti-aircraft guns, howitzers and cannons.Purchasers of these weapons require an EASILY OBTAINED cantonal license, and the weapons are registered. In a nation of six million people, there are at least two million guns, including 600,000 FULLY AUTOMATIC assault rifles, half a million pistols, and numerous machine guns. Virtually every home has a gun.

Besides SUBSIDIZED military surplus, the Swiss can buy other firearms easily too. While long guns require NO special purchase procedures, handguns are sold only to those with a Waffenerwerbsschien (purchase certificate) issued by a cantonal authority. A certificate is issued to every applicant over 18 who is not a criminal or mentally infirm.

There are NO restrictions on the carrying of long guns. About half the cantons have strict permit procedures for carrying handguns, and the other half have NO rules at all. There is NO discernible difference in the crime rate between the cantons as a result of the different policies.

Thanks to a lawsuit brought by the Swiss gun lobby, semi-automatic rifles require NO PURCHASE PERMIT and are NOT registered by the government.Thus, the ONLY long guns registered by the government are FULL AUTOMATICS."

New Yorkers live in the northeast equivalent of kalifornia. In both places reality is defined by politicians who think they know what is best for everybody and their constituents just continue to let them do it.

Get a New Yorker (my relatives) into Arizona or New Mexico and they are amazed at:

1) The lack of people

2) Two hours driving time between destinations

3) The open lands

4) The lack of public transportation

5) The fact they can't order takeout

6) Everybody they meet is friendly

7) Places are closed after 8 PM and on Sunday

8) You can get a large soft drink and salt on your fries at Dairy Queen.

New Yorkers live in the northeast equivalent of kalifornia. In both places reality is defined by politicians who think they know what is best for everybody and their constituents just continue to let them do it.

Get a New Yorker (my relatives) into Arizona or New Mexico and they are amazed at:

1) The lack of people

2) Two hours driving time between destinations

3) The open lands

4) The lack of public transportation

5) The fact they can't order takeout

6) Everybody they meet is friendly

7) Places are closed after 8 PM and on Sunday

8) You can get a large soft drink and salt on your fries at Dairy Queen.

Any law that restricts access to firearms and components is doomed for failure. It is designed that way. Since the law is virtually unenforceable the statist will enact even more restrictions until everyone is a criminal. Once we are all criminals we will have no other choice but to submit or be disposed of.

Next they will limit the number of 7-round clips that one can carry. Once we are all limited to 1-2 7-round clips, then we will all be safe, because THEN those who are bent on mass-murder will CERTAINLY be stopped in their tracks by these paper laws!!

18
posted on 01/14/2013 9:15:34 AM PST
by Teacher317
('Tis time to fear when tyrants seem to kiss.)

My wife and I have been considering moving to a red state for a while. My aging parents in NJ have made this decision extremely difficult. This new gun control stuff is pushing us to start making more concrete plans. I don’t want my children to grow up in a police state that puts the worst behavior on a pedestal and simultaneously abrogates every personal freedom (except who you have sex with).

An older Sig P220, German-made, original factory mags — holds 7 rounds per mag. Wish I hadn’t traded those three pistols for solar panels last month.

Secondly, remembering this is really about CONTROL, not gun control, refer to the writings of Ayn Rand for guidance on all these ‘laws.’:

“Did you really think we want those laws observed?” said Dr. Ferris. “We want them to be broken. You’d better get it straight that it’s not a bunch of boy scouts you’re up against... We’re after power and we mean it. . . There’s no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren’t enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What’s there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted  and you create a nation of law-breakers  and then you cash in on guilt. Now that’s the system, Mr. Reardon, that’s the game, and once you understand it, you’ll be much easier to deal with.”

REM: last week or so ago, Drudge had a link up about a guy arrested for videoing a police action — and some odd HEALTHCARE law had the language in it enabling the police to charge the guy. (I never followed the link)

I haven’t seen anything in this thread on this part of the NBC article on this purported deal:

“Other elements, pushed by Republicans, would refine a mental health law that allows for civil confinement of people determined to be a threat to others.”

Gee, guess who gets to say who is “determined to be a threat to others”? Sounds a lot like the old USSR if you ask me. I’d treat the government with as much respect as that of the old USSR - which is to say I’d break the law every chance I got where I think that I could get away with it. Government is breaking, and has been breaking the social contract for a long time, and as such the people have no moral obligation to continue to abide by it. Only force majeure keeps me obeying the law now.

Wonder how they are going to deal with the Indian Reservations in upstate NY that straddles between US and Canada? Many of the Indians own AR-15’s with big mags. NY State Troopers want to venture onto Indian land. It would be ironic if a Dem gov triggers the first American Indian War in the 21st Century US.

There is 100% chance it will be challenged in court. Let’s do this the right way and argue before the courts first, especially while they are favorable.

In Gonzales the Supremes ruled the local police do not have a Constitutional obligation to protect the people. Therefore, in Heller they ruled that the people have the right to use tools “in common use for lawful purposes” (from Miller) to protect themselves. In McDonald, they ruled this applies to state laws.

What do local PDs use? What about federal law enforcement? Well, they won’t use things that are for unlawful purposes (supposedly) and they commonly use them. Any magazine ban (or “clip,” as the tards say) will meet a stiff challenge unless the police are willing to ban it from themselves, which I find highly unlikely.

The real threat are taxes on these items. $200 per mag plus registration plus $200 per round . . . it would be the end. However, that is not the question for New Yorkers right now. It may be for us come tomorrow, but not for this particular ban.

There is 100% chance it will be challenged in court. Lets do this the right way and argue before the courts first, especially while they are favorable.

Yup, that is the first step. I suspect the Democrats are hoping to scare some militia folks into something violent, which they'd only use to crack down on guns further.

I agree, the left is probably going to struggle with gun bans, so liberal states will go for massive taxation on bullets and magazines.

One thing I think would be effective is for red states with good leadership to make a point of doing the opposite of the what liberal states are doing. And do this with as much media attention as possible. You are already seeing this on the taxation front. Every time California, NY or Illinois talk about raising taxes further, Texas, Louisiana, etc, should move to lower theirs. Red state governors should begin making it a point to attract good people, in addition to good businesses, to their states. So NY tries to tax magazines, VA can move to lower taxes on guns and accessories. Do this publicly with as much fanfare as possible.

The vote also would require Cuomo to issue a "message of necessity" that would dispense with the three days of public review that bills are supposed to have under the state constitution. There was no immediate comment from Cuomo, who made these gun control provisions a keynote of his State of the State address on Wednesday.

In other words, ram it down the throats of the people of New York without any public review, directly against the state constitution.

"PS, Why not have the manufacturers produce safer bullets, as one of our distinguished Liberal political appointees had recommended?"

Yeah, for soldiers and other "civilians" like them, eh? Oh...the police lobby and its manufacturers have already started working on that (see Hornady, LEO-only "TAP" ammo, SSA armor piercing, others.). Word has it, that Walmart already stopped selling ammo altogether to "civilians" (as differentiated from the official, ultra-fit PT animal heroes on TV).

48
posted on 01/14/2013 11:57:02 AM PST
by familyop
(We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of rotten politics smelled around the planet.)

The only need for a knee-jerk reaction , among the Dems , is a jerk (Cuomo) !!
I am disturbed by all these “back room’” legislation that are in violation of transparency laws and sunshine rules.
These proposals are illegal .
Isn’t that how we got ‘Obamacare ‘ in the first place ? (You gotta pass it , to find out what’s in it! )
Just more of the same , different day , different Fuhrer !

49
posted on 01/14/2013 11:58:19 AM PST
by Tilted Irish Kilt
("You never want a crisis to go to waste...( even if you create the crisis) "- Rahm Emanuel)

"Other elements, pushed by Republicans, would refine a mental health law to make it easier to confine people determined to be a threat to themselves or others."

Yeah, that'll work, especially when it didn't work previously due to court intervention.

Back in the 60's, NY State was taken to court regarding approximately 3,000 individuals who had been incarcerated at Matteawan State Hospital for the Criminally Insane, all past their sentence release dates because they were deemed too dangerous to be put on the street. As an old college instructor told us, the courts decided in favor of the criminals because it wasn't against the law to be mentally ill. They were all released to the streets.

Fast forward to the mid 80's. NY State prisons are overcrowded, and an extensive construction program is undertaken to expand the number of prison beds across the state.

I started working as a Correctional Officer in 1980. At that time, there was approximately two mental hygiene units at NY State prisons. One was Greenhaven. The other was Central NY Psychiatric Center at Marcy, NY. Mentally ill inmates who were unable to be placed in general population (GP) were shipped to these units for evaluation and treatment. Then once it was deemed they could be returned to GP status, they were shipped back to their home facility. Around this same time, several of the State's psychiatric hospitals and developmental centers were closed due to budget constraints. The State decided to renovate some of those buildings, and turn them into medium security prisons. I transferred to one of those prisons in December of 1983. The mentally ill patients who had previously resided in them were turned out to the street. These psychiatric center closings continued into the early 90's, all done under the governorship of Mario Cuomo.

When I retired in 2003, the old psychiatric center-turned prison that I worked at began renovating a whole building that would be used as a mental hygiene housing unit. What I had witnessed during my years in corrections, was an unbelievable increase in mentally ill prisoners coming into the system. They can rewrite the mental hygiene laws all they want to hold people deemed dangerous, but the bottom line is, lawyers and liberal judges will eventually overturn them, and these dangerous individuals will be back on the street. It's nothing but a vicious cycle, and history is repeating itself once again.

50
posted on 01/14/2013 12:25:58 PM PST
by mass55th
(Courage is being scared to death - but saddling up anyway...John Wayne)

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