Mazda3 2.3 vs. '07 VW Rabbit

Comments

Well...after researching the Mazda 3 5-door S Touring and the Rabbit for 2 weeks, I was almost sure I would end up with the Mazda. I did not. I just drove home my 2008 4 dr. Rabbit in Sage Green and for now, feel sure I made the right choice.

My neighbor just bought his 2nd Passat in 4 years when the first one went off warranty, and purchased 2 used Jettas for his daughters to take to college, and has had virtually no problems with any of those 4 cars, so I decided that the reliability issue is probably overblown. My understanding is that it was worse with the 97-02 models, but has improved since then. More about this issue later...

Bottom line is, I liked both cars, but for different reasons, so neither one screamed BUY ME INSTEAD at me. They are both great cars, and I would probably have been fine with either one. The Mazda "seems" a little more fun to drive, but I think part of the reason for that is that it's not as solidly built, so you feel the speed more. It was surprisingly quiet, I thought, even on the highway. I didn't like the interior much - but then, I didn't like the interior on my '04 BMW 325 as much as the one in my '97 Passat. VW just does a nice job on the inside, IMO. One problem I had with the Mazda was I couldn't get the seat and steering wheel in a comfortable position, and I played with them for several minutes trying. I'm 5'8" and very slender, so it shouldn't be that hard for me to fit into a car. I did NOT like the Mazda's 3-star side crash rating - airbags or no. I have never had an accident in 37 years of driving, so I feel like I have more control over a frontal impact crash than a side impact crash where some bozo runs a light and creams me. So the 5-star side crash rating on the VW appealed to me, especially since I have a soon-to-be-driving teen. I was also very impressed with all the standard features on the VW - it's definitely loaded with nice little touches like the heated driver's seats, etc. that I had in my Beamer. The turning radius is amazingly tiny, and the thing will be a snap to park. I liked the instrumentation and climate and sound system controls better. Last selling point - the 4 year warranty. I know, I know, people who hate VWs will say "You're gonna need it." I think my neighbor's experience shows that's not necessarily true, and it also makes me think that VW is standing behind their product more, like Hyundai had to when they introduced their 10-year powertrain warranties to convince people their build quality was getting better.

The kicker was the price. I got the Rabbit (a 2008 4 dr automatic) for about $700 under Edmunds'TMV price, with very little haggling with the internet sales associate whom I'd corresponded with before I went to look at the car, and they gave me $1500 more for my Beamer than the Mazda dealer offered. I had decided since my Beamer had high mileage for its age and there were SO many for sale on cars.com in my area, I just didn't want to deal with the hassle of selling it myself, though I usually do. I followed the ads for the last month or so and they were just not moving. I think I might have gotten about $1000 more on my own, but the above-mentioned hassles weren't worth it to me. My impression is that the dealers really do deal better the last weekend of the month to try to meet their sales quotas. I feel like I got more for my trade in than I "should" have, given what I learned when researching it - the price on the Rabbit was never an issue, but they did bump the trade up quite a bit for me. :surprise:

Edmunds.com rocks - I could never have gotten a deal like I did without their helpful pricing tools, and using an internet sales person was great. The Mazda lady was great, too, I just preferred the bunny - but both dealers were a pleasure to work with, and I HATE buying new cars.

I was the unfortunate owner of a 2001 VW GTI also. Purchased in August, 2001. By January the coil issue appeared, not once but 3 times. Driving the work you could feel the jumping and the lack of power. Had the coils replaced 3 times. Power windows quit working a few months later. Then the power locks. Then the DRL burned out after less then one year. This is too many problems for a car to have when it is less then ONE YEAR OLD. :lemon:

My husband & I own a 1999 Passat V6 with 184,000 miles on it & its still going strong! Our only problem with this vehicle is the emissions issue which has always plagued VW`s from what I have read with this issue it does cause the vehicle to stall. The Passat still feels solid next to other vehicles we have had with a lot less miles. You can get a lemon in anything sorry for your experience. I still want the 08 rabbit parked in my garage for the my commute to work.

"Speaking of European, the British weekly, Autocar, rates (using 5 stars) the Ford Focus superior to the Mazda3 and Volvo S40. - Focus hatch: 4.5 stars, "UK's favorite car returns bigger and better than ever" - Volvo S40: 3 stars, "strangely less than the sum of its parts" - Mazda3 hatch: 3 stars, "a good car, but not quite what it should have been"

Moral of the story: sometimes you have to leave home to feel appreciated."

I've seen these MkII overseas & didn't appreciate it being even wider than the 6-ft-wide Lexus LS430.

No wonder Top Gear was pessimistic about redesigning the MkI Focus into the MkII when the Golf/Rabbit V (which had the original Focus engineers designing its Control Blade multi-link rear) & the Mazda3 (which was derived from the MkII Focus platform but w/ the roll center lowered in the front & raised in the rear w/ different suspension firmness & plus a different steering rack) disappointed:comp386, "2008 Ford Focus future vehicle" #47, 19 Jan 2007 9:14 am

We're the lucky ones that still have the old "Euro" Focus until '07. In fact, our reliable Mazda-engined 2.3 Focus ST, introduced in '05, used the identical suspension as the one in Europe's ST170 (except the lowered springs -- similar change to our pre-'08 GTI V).

I've driven the Mazda3 many times, either 2.0 or 2.3, stick or auto, 16"s or 17"s. Let me tell you what -- it's an hyperactive handler w/ the tail that won't stay put when making simulated abrupt lane change on the fwy. I can't imagine how dangerous it can be w/o stability control on slippery days. Besides, not having belt-driven hydraulic steering can only give you limited steering feel. The quick movement from the shock setting is also too nervous for comfort, but I believe that replace'em w/ Gabriel or std S40 shocks should cure the ride discomfort. I still don't like the door armrest being too low after raising the driver seat to just barely support my thighs.

The Rabbit suspension is too wallowy to be fun, as immediate change of direction can't be done. What's worse. The Golf IV already lacked steering feel at the limit (which wasn't the case back in gen I, II or III) & the Rabbit V's electric-motor steering assist only makes it even more artificial. You can firm up the suspension for a more responsive handling, but you can't hide the numb steering. At least it's still impressively compact for a comfy limo.

& the S40 is simply too numb to have fun, as complains from its hot-hatch version -- the C30 -- is everywhere now. I find its optional sport suspension too uncomfortable, while the std comfy suspension bottoms out the front travel too easily over deeper bumps, just like the early std Focus sold in America. Even the base model has a manual thigh-angle adjuster while the door armrest is so high (I love it!) that this perfect driving position even includes a full-time turn-signal stalk in at your finger tip!

The Focus ST was slightly softened after the '05 model year. & that's my favorite, as the firm ride no longer has the unnecessarily abrupt up-&-down motions, while the U.S.-tuned hydraulic steering that still lacked the confident-inspiring resistance back in '05 now (in this '07 I sampled) feels nicely firm above 45mph w/ strong centering action. The only real improvement it needs is sound insulation. Unlike its brothers -- the Mazda3/S40 sedans -- the 4-dr Focus has a decently wide rear-view visibility good for lane change & passing.

Looks like turbo charge alone is too unsophisticated for a "driver on demand" GTI, as the only way to force fed w/o lag is super-&-turbo charge (unless it's a BMW engine):

"Engine details have yet to be confirmed, but VW&#146;s clever 1.4-litre TSI petrol powerplant will lead the way under the bonnet. This unit will come in a choice of 120bhp and 148bhp turbocharged guises, while a 168bhp version is equipped with a turbochar­ger and a supercharger. The hot hatch GTI model will feature an even more powerful 2.0-litre TSI motor.

The only normally aspirated engine in the line-up will be the 3.2-litre V6 fitted to the top-of-the-range R32."

"Under the surface, the MkVI Golf uses the existing car&#146;s underpinnings. But according to insiders at the company, engineers have come up with a less complicated rear suspension set-up. The outgoing MkV&#146;s multi-link system is both time-consuming and expensive to produce, and the new geometry is designed to provide significant cost savings without affecting the model&#146;s superb ride and handling."

Really? Just like how Civic lost the double wishbones in the front after 2000 & claimed the same thing?

Even BMW needed to use 5 links in the rear of the new 1 & 3 series in order to apply the similar principle as Focus' 4-link Control Blade, which BMW almost bought its platform years ago. How can VW find a simpler way after hiring the Focus engineers designing the Control Blade 4-link rear on the MkV? Look man, Control Blade is already the most cost effective way to produce the high-tech rear suspension...

Boy, it's all about cheap interior (as in the Focus) vs cheap suspension (as in the VW except MkV). So that leaves the Mazda3 (& S40/V50) soldiering on w/ the "expensive" Control Blades from the Focus.

consumer reports has only stated that the 2.0t isnt exactly the most reliable engine of all time....they actually reccomend the jetta, the 2.5 and there is not enough data on the rabbit. Granted that the rabbit is just a hatch version of the jetta, its safe to assume that this newfound reliablity spreads to it as well.

at any rate, why are you even talking carfan? you OWN a freaking 2.0t in the form of a gli, and while its by no means a bad car, whyt are you knocking what you own? :confuse:

I sell both. They are each an excellent vehicle, but the rabbit's 2.5l I-5 with 6 speed Auto or 5 speed Manual are a little quicker and more sport-tuned than the mazda's 2.3. it just depends on what you are looking for

I traded My 03 Accord v6 for a Rabbit 2 door, 5 speed For my 18 year old daughter. I paid 14,500 for the car. My experience with the dealership was a 10, repairs include only a lose vent, avg gas mileage is around 25mpg. My daughter wanted this car because she thought it was cute.

A true test came when we took a trip to Chicago from Memphis and back in a 42 hour period, I was so impressed with this car, We got around 29 mpg, On the interstate we probably averaged 80 mph and peaked around 95 mph. The ride was very comfortable, good pickup even at 75 mph. We left Chicago at 10 pm in a really bad rain storm, the traction control handled amazingly, the headlights and wipers did their job very well. In the City the car was easy to drive, the little 2.5 engine was perfect, its not a race car but had plenty of pickup. Also while on the 9 hour trip we were never without a good radio station. My only complaints are the the stick shift, Sometimes starting from a start it wasn't very forgiving and I thought the gas mileage could have been better. The bottom line is I was comfortable and felt safe. This car gets a 9.5 in my book.but when you factor the price of the car it gets a 10+,

I've always thought that this new Rabbit is amazingly comfy-riding for a small car. My 2000 Civic hatch (the most recent model w/ the high-tech full-double-wishbone suspension all around) isn't even close. I also doubt the clumsy heavy bulky '03 Accord w/ huge turning circle really rides smoother than the Rabbit.

I almost bought a Rabbit/Jetta last year, but was only appalled by the electric pwr steering's lack of feel. Instead, I decided to collect an '07 Focus 2.3 ST & sacrifice ride comfort a little.

Just days ago when upgrading to Quaife differential in my Mazda-powered Focus, I had a '95 Jetta VR6 as loaner car. I was impressed by its good-old VW steering's natural feel & the decently absorbent ride comfort, even w/o the modern Focus-type Control Blade multi-link rear suspension found in the most recent VW's. Too bad that an old VW had several broken parts everywhere -- it makes my '90 Mazda Protege twin-cam feel like a new car by comparison.

Whoa there 600kgolfgt ! I bought a new 1999 VW Passat 4-cyl turbo (base engine) with an automatic as Consumer Report recommended in 1999.

BIG MISTAKE - It bearly made 74K miles. List of some items I recall:replaced defective steering rack (warranty covered)Mutiple engine oil leaks (warranty covered)broken glove compartment (not covered-I fixed with $.02 screw which they wanted $240 to replace it)electrical sensor on transmission (est $450 to fix) which kept reverse lights on (not covered under powertrain since its electrical part ?!!!)and the biggy --> timing belt broke at 69K miles crushing valves...well before the 100K warranty (VW replaced it but it took 1-1/2 weeks to fix). I actually called 3 VW places before the incident to find out when timing belt is to be replaced, they all stated 105K (conveniently just 5K after powertrain warranty :mad: ).

The #1 reason not to buy VW, the VW service guy told me to unload my 1999 as soon as possible, I did --> now that's VW confidence !!!! :lemon:

p.s. I told my brother to buy one which he did get a 2000 Passat with 5 speed and he never lets me forget since he has had major & minor issues as well.

Whoa there 600kgolfgt ! I bought a new 1999 VW Passat 4-cyl turbo (base engine) with an automatic as Consumer Report recommended in 1999.

School's in session. Here's your homework. Learn it well:

New Rule - It is not wise to purchase an automobile (from any manufacturer) early in the production cycle. I learned that the hard way with my first VW - a 1975 Mk1 Scirocco (eventually drove it 200,000 miles after getting the initial bugs fixed) - and secondly with my next car - 1977 Datsun 280z (the first year a 5-speed manual transmission was offered, and suffered two transmission replacements as a result due to poorly designed bearings).

Do you sense a pattern here? All four cars mentioned were purchased at or near the end of the production cycle - enough time for the manufacturer to work out most of the bugs...

The VW service department who advised you to dump your car was more than likely a big cause of your problems by cutting corners on the maintenance and/or ignoring factory recommendations (such as using the wrong motor oil, for example).

Case in point:

The demise of your timing belt is caused by one of the following conditions:

1) Sludge. The dealership, the factory (and possibly the car's owner) dropped the ball on this one. Turbocharged engines REQUIRE synthetic oil (meeting the VW 502.00 specification) every 5000 miles. Not 5001 miles. Not 6000 miles. Not 7500 miles. Not "Oh I haven't changed my oil since I bought the car new". No exceptions, do not pass GO, do not collect $200. The service department more than likely used conventional 5w-30 motor oil which they purchased in bulk to save money. Sludging eventually causes oil starvation - especially to the cylinder head with the camshaft operating the timing belt. Cylinder head seizes while engine is still running - timing belt gets sheared - valves meet pistons - bye, bye, engine. At the time immediately before the timing belt broke, major engine damage has already occurred.

2) Water pump. But since your car is a 1999, the engine more than likely had the older-style aluminum water pump (which will last at least 150,000+ miles) instead of the plastic water pump that came on the scene during the late 1999 model year. If your car has a date of manufacture past mid 1999, then chances are it has the plastic water pump which has been known to disintegrate around the 60,000 - 70,000 mile mark (confirmed when I had the timing belt service performed on my two 1.8Ts at 65,000 and 73,000 miles respectively) - resulting in the broken pieces jamming the water pump. And since the plastic water pump is driven by the timing belt, a seized water pump will lead to the timing belt's demise in similar fashion as the sludge scenario described above.

Lesson learned:

Those drivers who insist on being the "first kid on the block to have the newest car fresh off the assembly line" are volunteering to become beta testers for the automotive industry, usually at great expense $$$$.

As an aside, the powertrain in the Rabbit has been in production since 2005, and has been quite reliable during that period, and at present (being a non-turbo engine with a timing chain helps as well). So chances are that the 2008 model has most of the bugs worked out....

"Do you sense a pattern here? All four cars mentioned were purchased at or near the end of the production cycle - enough time for the manufacturer to work out most of the bugs...

Lesson learned:

Those drivers who insist on being the "first kid on the block to have the newest car fresh off the assembly line" are volunteering to become beta testers for the automotive industry, usually at great expense $$$$."

That's the whole point. Being the original owner of the first-year-model 1990 Mazda Protege produced in Japan, I still found the car long lasting & quite trouble free even today, aside from very few minor early- production glitches that were remedied by the factory service bulletins.

But the same cannot be said about the last-year-model 1984 MkI Jetta produced in Germany -- things have been falling apart for many years.

Well, I am glad that at least my 1999 E36 BMW 328is & 2007 Focus ST (w/ Mazda-developed 2.3 powerplant) all came from the very end of the production cycle.

"It is not wise to purchase an automobile (from any manufacturer) early in the production cycle"

That is not accurate. There are many mfgrs that you can purchase a vehicle from in its first few model years and have little no issues. Most of the Japanese makes have little issues in their first few years, where as German brands tend to have numerous issues not only in their first years, but many years afterward.

There are many mfgrs that you can purchase a vehicle from in its first few model years and have little no issues. Most of the Japanese makes have little issues in their first few years

Last year Consumer Reports showed that even the venerable Toyota and Honda companies experience more issues in their initial production years than in the second, third or following years. As a consumer, it seems like a wise strategy to wait until the early adopters test out the new releases.

If you as a consumer think it is wise to wait until the 3rd or 4th year of production on a particular vehicle, that is ok. Most cars tend to have a few issues in their first couple years. My point was that the German makes are so much more suseptable to problems then Japanese cars are, and since you brought up CR, they also agree with my statement.

Consumer Reports recently published a hatchback comparo (as linked in a previous post) and the VW Rabbit S automatic 4 door won. They listed this vehicle as having better than average reliability and is their top pick of the small hatchbacks.

Because of the CR recommendation, I placed an order for one. What I have found is you can wait forever to get this car if you order it the way you want it. VW really must improve their distribution system.

I have a leased vehicle due back July 31st. I e-mailed my VW sales guy this morning to give me a definite commitment on an ordered Rabbit by June 5th, or I have to walk. The guy didn't ask me for a deposit yet and he took my order two weeks ago. He won't ask me for a deposit until he knows for sure he can get me the vehicle. I hear VW isn't building any more 2008's, so there is a real possibility he won't be able to get it for me.

Having driven both of these vehicle types (Mazda3 and Volkswagen Rabbit (Golf)) back to back, I can give a educated opinion on both and why I chose the VW.

I first drove the Mazda. It featured the 5-speed manual and 2.3L I-4. It was a fun car to drive, well equipped, and nicely peppy. The styling inside and out is sharp, sexy (for a compact) and modern. Materials used in the cabin were nice enough but the LED strip in the stereo head unit was gimmicky.

Then I drove the Volkswagen. It felt more solid and substantial as well as feeling of a more mature car. Its manual transmission also had a more connected and mechanical feel. Styling is subdued but pleasing, with easy entry seats into the rear of the 3-door model.

I did return to drive the Mazda, and that sealed the deal for me to get the VW.The Mazda is a noisy little [non-permissible content removed] of a fun car but has far too much commotion for my tastes and felt like a cheap tin can compared to the Volkswagen Rabbit.

Also, in my 2008 VW Rabbit witht he 170hp 2.5L 5-cylinder engine, I average at least 26 mpg and have seen up to 31 mpg on the Interstate.

my 2008 VW Rabbit witht he 170hp 2.5L 5-cylinder engine, I average at least 26 mpg and have seen up to 31 mpg on the Interstate.

These are unimpressive numbers for a small car using a manual transmission.

The Mazda is a noisy little [non-permissible content removed] of a fun car but has far too much commotion for my tastes and felt like a cheap tin can compared to the Volkswagen RabbitBizarre, this description of the Mazda3 seems to defy all previous evaluations of the car.

"These are unimpressive numbers for a small car using a manual transmission."

Borrowing football parlance, I actually think the Rabbit is a bit of a tweener --- even though in exterior dimensions it seems to compete with cars such as the Mazda3 and Civic, in terms of engine size & output, and interior room and amenities, and overall refinement, it almost can be compared to the next size segment, the 4 cyl versions of the Legacy, Accord, Mazda6, etc. If view in that vein, then its mpg is not too disappointing. Just like the Mini, even though it is a small car, I don't think fuel economy has ever been its top priority.

Rabbit 2.5 is rated at 21/30 and the Mazda3 2.3 at 22/29 mpg (both w/manual trans) by EPA. Based on this a driver of either car should be expected to get about the same mpg.

Agreed. But since the average fuel economy of both cars with manual transmissions is in the mid to high 20's it remains unimpressive and needs improvement. A small car with a manual transmission should be averaging in the 30's not the 20's in my opinion. One way of achieving this is by shaving weight off the car; both cars should be aiming for 2500 pounds rather than the nearly 3000 pounds they cart around.