I think the world of Iscariot is the biggest thing you can expand upon to supplement the content. Sure there are a lot of good authors who create fictional worlds for a one-hit story, but the legends in the game all create an entire world that they build a series of stories within. This way, its not just the story which attracts readers but the fictional world it takes place in.

Easiest way I can think to do this is with a wiki. Maybe start one on Wikia. I'm the Admin for the Crimson Dark Wiki and have been working hard to expand it. I'm sure you've got more than enough computer gurus in here to grow your own and then you only have to throw out tid-bits of extra information either in-comic or else-where to let them grow and expand it further.

If you want a better example of a good sized wiki based on a comic with a fictional world, just see Erfworld's Erfwiki.

I think the world of Iscariot is the biggest thing you can expand upon to supplement the content. Sure there are a lot of good authors who create fictional worlds for a one-hit story, but the legends in the game all create an entire world that they build a series of stories within. This way, its not just the story which attracts readers but the fictional world it takes place in.

Easiest way I can think to do this is with a wiki. Maybe start one on Wikia. I'm the Admin for the Crimson Dark Wiki and have been working hard to expand it. I'm sure you've got more than enough computer gurus in here to grow your own and then you only have to throw out tid-bits of extra information either in-comic or else-where to let them grow and expand it further.

If you want a better example of a good sized wiki based on a comic with a fictional world, just see Erfworld's Erfwiki.

I do love this comic, I read it regularly and have for years, and I don't plan to stop.

That being said, wow. You may want to stay away from writing Maytag's award-winning jokes, Brion. If that last panel on Wednesday's page was any indicator, she should be in for a sure loss. If you really absolutely feel the need to put some stand up comedy jokes in the panels, I would say, either steal them from someone else and credit on the page where you took them from, or just infer and don't point out. That may sound harsh, but you know, if Maytag were doing real life standup somewhere with that line, the audience would be giving her the cold, uncomprehending stare that kills careers before they even begin. And no, I'm not against profanity or opinionated jokes, but you know? They have to be funny.

So yeah. "I'm never having kids, because babysitting kids is a pain in the ass! HAHAHA ONTO THE NEXT ROUND!" Not flying.

Like these or these or even these although Maytag as you've presented her so far really strikes me as the George Carlin type.

Last edit: I went googling for funny jokes on the theme "I don't want to have kids!" touched by Maytag in the last panel to list as possible examples, and couldn't really find anything. Perhaps I'm looking in the wrong places for them, but I guess it's just not a rip roaring topic to win contests with.

Yeah... I guess I was envisioning that as maybe a snippet from a rant, and maybe the part that came next was the funny part. And also, I kinda feel like someone with good delivery could say the lines she's saying and get a laugh... but maybe you're right. If I can think of anything better I'll substitute it, but if you can think of anything let me know.

Well obviously I do not have a career in stand up comedy ahead of me so take this all with a grain of salt, heh.

The first thing I would think of would be to make a pretty unfair male bash joke about not having kids because she already has enough immaturity to handle with a man in the first place. But that is mean, doesn't suit Maytag philosophy, and isn't actually all that funny, so here are some random ones.

Why practice magical contraception? Well, my friend's kids might have something to do with it. She named them pill, condom and diapharagm!

Or

Why do they always sacrifice virgins? Because they sure as hell aren't gonna sacrifice the ones that put out!

Or

Marriage is the only adventure open to the cowardly. *this is a real quote from Voltaire, but you could turn it into a joke. Go 1600s intellectuals!

And last,

Why do moths fly with their legs apart? Well, have you seen the size of moth balls?!

I'm sure there are better sex jokes out there. You might want to start a joke thread and have reader contributions with votings. Then it could be like a real contest, LOL!

Logged

2 kids = no more comics, but you can still find me doing BG portraits now and then

Yeah... I guess I was envisioning that as maybe a snippet from a rant, and maybe the part that came next was the funny part. And also, I kinda feel like someone with good delivery could say the lines she's saying and get a laugh... but maybe you're right. If I can think of anything better I'll substitute it, but if you can think of anything let me know.

I still liked that one you had her tell at the campfire in book 0 where we only heard the punchline and not the whole joke. I think that always comes off quite well.

bbfuller

I think I actually have more compliments than criticisms, so this will probably be more of a "observations I hope are useful" comment than anything. But in general, here're a few things:

My very favorite part of Flipside is character development that we see expedited through the core cast interacting. There are established relationships and plots that I enjoy, and while I understand that nothing but character-building would quickly turn the comic into a drama, I think that personally, the action and adventure parts are the least interesting to me. (For the record my favorite parts are the relationship and travel sections, but I'll be the first to admit that there has to be more than that to keep it interesting.)

Hi all, newcomer to the forum here. I stumbled onto Flipside yesterday, and read all non-Book 0 material through the night. This is an absolutely incredible comic. The quality of the characters, plot, setting, and development of all of the above goes far beyond the majority of the official manga series that are mass-produced these days. There is nothing wrong with this webcomic. In a hyperbole sense I am absolutely in love with just about every character, and in a literal sense I'm a little smitten with some of them. Which is really, really pathetic when I think about it. Anyway, considering that this is the character I relate to the most (unfortunately without the latent potential), I was wondering how much more development and involvement in the story we're going to see with Crest. Judging by the comments on this thread already, that seems like a hot topic. With the beginning of the comic I thought that Crest was going to be the real main character, with Maytag being more of a constant companion and instrumental component. Like...if anyone here reads/watches Fullmetal Alchemist, the way Ed is the main character while Al is an extremely important character alongside. I thought that tensions between the differing philosophies of Bern and Maytag would split the two up earlier on (though of course that can still happen) and as Crest remarked on that instance at camp, he'd be there to pick up the pieces. I really enjoyed all the character exposition in the first few chapters, learning about Maytag and Bern's relationship and Crest's varying attitude toward Maytag depending on her circumstances. But it really seems now that Crest is an ancillary character if anything, thrown into the ranks of supporting cast of someone of the same level as Glyph, while the relationship of Maytag and Bernadette takes the spotlight. It could have been my misinterpretation of the characters (I have yet to read Book 0, so perhaps I'll see more of how those two are undeniably the central focus there) but from my personal perspective, I'd like to see more of Crest making his presence known within this love trian...spiderweb that's going on here.

I pretty much love the comic as is thus far, but I do agree with an earlier post that having more animals/fantasy type creatures appear in story would be neat, the only supernatural beasts we've seen so far are the Maws and the Fear Demons coughed up by Bloody Mary. I mean, Maytag and Bern don't have to start riding around on Chocobos or anything like that, but seeing some more native creatures to Iscariot would be nice, whether they be legendary in nature like dragons or griffins or are simply alien to the real world. Like, for example, there could be a type of small lizard that scurries up and down walls like a gecko but has a venomous bite and rattling tail like a rattlesnake, something we wouldn't see in the real world but could be feasible in a made up place like Iscariot, or a type of forest dwelling canine or cat that would be a cause for alarm for travelers in the woods, etc

lablanc30

You probably don't remember me but you handed me a card at FanimeCon after I flipped through one of Flipside's books. I just finished reading Flipside and I enjoy it a lot. Although the first few chapters aren't particularly interesting to me, Flipside gets more interesting after the Warp Box Arc(?). Some elements such as slavery and body mutilation feel out of place. It almost feels like those elements are setting up Flipside for potential hentai stuff (fortunately Flipside didn't go down that path). I guess they serve their purpose as teasers.

Both the art and story are getting better over time in my opinion, and the increasing cast is nice. I don't like the "first" major villain (I haven't read book zero so I have no idea) very much because he sort of just pops out of nowhere and literally enslaves May in the middle of the street. The later "magical collar" explanation somewhat redeems that part of the story but I still think the entire thing is forced. Bloody Mary is a much better villain because her troubles and powers seem better elaborated. I also like the current direction of the story because it is more focused. I got bored watching Crest hanging around town and trying to get between Bern/May in the early chapters so it's nice to see the story bringing in more adventures.

As far as the art goes, I remember seeing some weirdly drawn faces from the early chapters but other that other the art looks good. Each page looks completed. I also notice that Crest is better drawn in the more current chapters.

Hey, I made a comment on the discussion thread about Moby's comment and how the developing character sort of annoyed me, so I thought I'd bring my side of the debate here. And just so you know, I'm not trying to be super critical or anything, it's just my current opinions on the characterization in the comic. My two cents. I think the thing that kind of gets to me is that, despite the minutia, there are really only two types of characters in the comic right now when it comes to sexual philosophy: the standards and the deviants. People like Bern are the standards, who like monogamy and aren't necessarily very adventurous (obviously natural gender preferences like Bern's aren't being a maverick.) And then the deviants are the types like Maytag, Moby, and Fata Morgana, the three of whom I think make a good example. Between them is a broad spectrum, as you've done a good job of explaining. Moby is probably the least deviant of the three, at least as far as experimentation goes, her disbelief in the value of relationships being so far just about the only "unusual" (in terms of general societal norms and expectations) thing so far. Maytag is a good middle point, in that she shares enough of the "usual" ideas such as belief in relationships and all, while being deviant in the aspects of her bisexuality, cheating/polygamy/open relationship policies, and what-have-you. And then Fata Morgana, from what little we've seen of her, has described herself as having done every possible sexual act, so one can draw one's own conclusions. As I say, that is a good spectrum. However, my point is that it all seems to boil down to either you're plain, or there's a distinct something different. As portrayed in the comic so far, it doesn't matter how much of a deviant a character is, the only real important thing is that they are a deviant. And regardless, they are something. There's no character that you're not really sure "Hm, I'm not really sure if they're surprising or not." I think the reason this glares out to me is the obvious overemphasis on sex and sexual philosophy. Of course, I understand that it's a main theme of the comic, and I'm not saying you should either abandon or even stray away from it. It's a good issue. But imagine this, if the entire world was colored red, exactly what meaning would the word red have? Because everyone has some view on sex, the entire unspoken debate has become too saturated by these opinions. There are too few characters who simply don't care about sex at all. This doesn't mean they absolutely don't have sex, because their opinions would be conspicuous by their absence, like in Lucient's case for instance. One such character who's refreshing for me is Moss, actually, since so far he hasn't seemed to have any opinion on sex at all. He'll make fun of Maytag for it, but it's her he's making fun of, not the idea of her lack of chastity. I suppose beyond what he was pushed into by Maytag in earlier chapters, Crest is quite like this too, more neutral. The key to these characters is that sex and sexual philosophy isn't an intrinsic part of their lives, unlike...just about everyone else. Which isn't to say that no character should have their life dictated or at least strongly influenced by their sexual philosophy, since there are people like that in real life. But there are also people who aren't, and it's that contrast that I think would bring a little fresh air into these characterizations.

lablanc30: Definitely wasn't trying to set Flipside up for Hentai stuff, but I do like for the comic to take on tough moral issues, a lot of which is sex related, so that's what you can expect more of. You're right that the first major villian doesn't have much depth, even if I did add a little bit later with that collar revelation. He's not really meant to have depth, though, he's a plot contrivance to make the first couple of chapters interesting... later "villains" will be more interesting, I promise, along the same lines as Bloody Mary. (Not meaning that they will all be cannibal zombie girls, of course.) Thanks for saying that my art is getting better. Hopefully the story will continue to improve as well... we're getting to the point where more character truths and development will unfold.

Nettlekid: No need to apologize for your opinion, I understand. Here's where I disagree with you, though... I think it's not quite fair to just lump everyone who is not "standard" into the deviant category. That's an over generalization on your part. I think if you'll give each of the characters' philosophies credit, you'll see that there is actually a lot of variation.

And to answer your second point, I don't think it's true that most of the characters dwell on sex. As you noted, relationships are a focus of the comic, so it's only natural that there is a greater focus than you might be used to. But as you admit, Crest does not exactly seem sex obsessed. Bernadette is not constantly talking about her sexual proclivities, and she is one of the most important main characters. It feels to me like there's enough characters who aren't focused on sex, and a good portion of the plot has nothing to do with sex. But that's just my evaluation.

It goes back and forth I find. As usual, it can seem like the entire story is dwelling on a certain topic or area when we're talking about the update schedule of a webcomic (even if its daily) as opposed to getting each story segment in a lump portion like paper comics.

We sayed outside relationships almost completely for quite sometime with Bloody Mary and a number of people were complaining back then that it was all action or horror as opposed to the relationships focus we had around the start of the book. Then we had the trip to Danzig's castle which confronted Bern and Maytag with the truth of their relationship before going to Danzig's castle and covering the mayhem there.

Admittedly, a good portion of Danzig's castle was sexual with the bath scene, Fata's temptation and Moss' ultimatum but it still confronted the characters, particularly Maytag with temptation and how sex is her weakness.

Really, you'll find that even in real life, when we come across "standard" people, there's not a lot to talk about in regards to sex, but when you do find people with "deviant" views or lifestyles then it often sparks up the discussion about it, even from "standard" people who can be curious about alternate philosophies. Its difficult to say why Fata decided to talk to Maytag about Sex. It doesn't seem to have been part of the test but obviously sex was part of Maytag's weakness and they'd just been through a sexual situation so I guess it seemed like an appropriate topic to choose out of the many.

The other thing you'll find is that "deviants" tend to find each other. Likely because they usually tend to be outgoing, eccentric people who are in the arts and hit the clubs on a regular basis, so its not unusual for a comic with a "deviant" such as Maytag to meet people like Umber at Heart's Shadow, or get together with others in the entertainment industry who are quite outgoing and also of a party nature. The comic certainly has a fair number of "standards" but there's little denying that there are a larger number of "deviants" than most of us tend to come across in life. Again, if any of us are "deviants", its likely that we have many more other "deviants" in our lives than most "standards" do.

The only thing I have felt "meh" about was the splitting up of May and Bern. The "I want to win my own Sound Stone" felt like a weak excuse to split them up. To be honest I can't think of anything better right now. But what you have setup is going to be interesting and I can't wait to see what happens.

I love how the story is adult without being pornographic. I feel that all the nude scenes are proper, tho some of May's comments can be a tad from left field, like Chap 27, Page 29. That was so random. I understand the point of it, but random. Not complaining tho.

I am in love with Crest. I see so much of myself in him. I don't want him to become a badass, but some minor growth I feel would be good. Just my luck my favorite character is the "main secondary" character. To me, he very much seems to be the "shoulder to cry on" person of the group. He is there when he is needed however he is needed (might be stretching it there). I don't want to get to crazy to say that he will do anything to make his friends happy, but I think if it's within his power, he would do so. Like in Chap 24, Page 24 where he shields May so Bern doesn't have to worry. That's where Crest is the strongest in my opinion.

I feel that the flow and pacing of the story is good. There has not been a section that I felt had dragged on, tho some times the Intermissions are annoying. They are fun, but some times there is so much intermission I tend to skip them to continue with the story. I like the release schedule. 3 a week is enough to keep me wanting more, without having major withdraws. It if were once a week I'd have to hunt you down.

I know much of what I said, has been said, and I am sorry for repeating. I really only have minor "issues", like the sick up Berns ass, but that is how the character is. If everyone was like May, then the story would kinda suck. Can't fault someone for breathing.

Regarding the splitting of May and Bern, I would say two things: 1. If you're passionate about achieving something, then a contest like that could be seen as very important, and 2. Although they are technically splitting up, it is planned that May will be able to spend the most important part of the journey, the meeting of Bern's father, through the magic of portals.

On May's comment in Chap 27 Page 29, it is meant to show that Maytag will casually spill very embarrassing personal details, even to a large audience of people. It also may seem more random because we're cutting into the middle of a conversation.

I'm glad you like Crest... I can't say if he'll become a badass, but he will continue to grow and hopefully that growth will seem natural. Making a character more powerful is a very superficial type of character growth, but for certain types of character arcs I think it makes sense, of course what that means for the character is more important.

I understand why they are splitting, and it really is logical, I'm not gonna argue that, but I don't know why I can't fully seem to accept that. It's not you. It's me, honestly. Guess I'm more use to the over the top "plot splits" like kidnapping, party member leaving because they don't feel respected or no longer agrees with main groups ideas, etc. But May and Bern make a ton of sense, since they both love each other that much to give up/delay what they want to make the other happy. And with the "thinking with portals" idea Suspiria, it lets them have the cake and eat it too.

To be honest I don't know why May's comment during Glyph's show took me by surprise so much. Guess because it was just *BAM*.

As long as you don't kill Crest off, he's a badass in my mind. I would like to see him get better at the sword, at least enough to fend off a skeleton guard or two. He already has the guts, and when he puts his mind to it the smarts. Maybe when he finally gets a girl and something happens to her, he'll have a "kick ass and take names" moment. But I really like how he is.

So hard to keep this criticism and not go on discussion rants. I'm so sorry. *covers head for incoming brick barrage*

This is where you can post criticism of Flipside. It can be about any part, or any aspect of Flipside. Please try to keep all criticism constructive, and stay generally polite. Politeness is expected from people responding to critics, as well.

Also, not all criticism *has* to go into this thread. If it relates to the current chapter, feel free to put it in the chapter discussion thread. You can also feel free to start your own thread if you feel it is warranted.

Minor quibbles

1)More monsters, please. It's beginning to feel like the only monsters in the world are those the Thin Man makes. (The fear demon Bloody Mary coughed up was great.)

2)The explanation Maytag used to claim immunity from pain (just accept it as another experience) I thought somewhat implausible. But who knows, she might have just been lying to the bad guys!

On balance I think flipside is fantastic and I'm glad I stumbled over it. I have it bookmarked as one of the few webcomics I steadily follow.

Ok, I started reading Flipside a week ago and finished all of Book 0 and Book 1 up to (not including) Chapter 30. Also found all the hidden content on the site - great stuff.

I'll probably try to read a chapter at a time as they come out, because I find even Questionable Content with it's daily releases are very slow on a day by day basis and from what I've seen of Flipside it might take a week or so to get through one fight scene. This isn't really a criticism because the final result is excellent and drawing 20 strips a day of any quality would be impossible.

So my criticisms:First: I read book 0 when it was mentioned in the first intermission and found it very important to understanding the characters in the beginning of Book 1. Not to mention a great story arc with Moss and Regina. With that said I think you're doing a disservice to new readers by recommending they skip it.

The first few pages with Britannus are a bit weak and hard to follow for a new comer, but if they were redone or touched up I think it would be a better than telling people to skip the book entirely.

Second:The notebook section of your site is very broken and sparse. There are 404s for Brittanus, Lucient, Regina, and Seraph, and no Book 1 characters. It may be best to remove that link from the main page entirely.

Third:Perhaps related to the first point; some scenes from Book 1 seem to be little more than copies of Book 0. For example Maytag being eaten by Bloody Mary was a little too similar to where she was tortured by Moss pretty much the same result. I understand this is an aspect of Maytag's character that is likely to come up in such a hostile world but at least the torturers reactions could have been different since Mary and Moss are different people. Also for some reason it seemed a little more believable the first time.

Perhaps this is dealt with more in Ch. 30 (haven't read), or covered to death by other forum members, but Maytag's relationship with Bernadette annoyed me when it was suddenly introduced and every time it was referenced from then until the truth ring. It still bugs me somewhat - seems outside of Maytag's character to have not been more forthright and she never really seemed to be in love before that moment but now it's brought up all the time. Isn't she smart enough to know that Bernadette didn't become a knight for herself not for Maytag; and Maytag shouldn't not be herself for Bernadette. I think on this last point I'm suppose to be somewhat disgusted so that's probably an accolade rather than a critique. Still - bugged me.

Ok this is the first time I've written anything here and all I did was complain. Seems like a jerk thing to do when I'm actually a fan and have tried to get my wife to start reading it. I like the morality, ethics, and philosophy you're not afraid to bring in. Your characters are for the most part interesting and well thought out. The artwork is above par, and I am grateful that you haven't turned it into a wall of text. Wonderful comic.

Since your comic has a lot of real world social issues dealt, I would like to see and hear about more of the different faiths and philosophies, and how they co-exist and conflict with one another. Social issues like intolerance and also imperial tendencies would be interesting. I really think you should expand some more on the world's history and cultures. There also needs to be more monsters! ;p

I think you should make a wiki so that you can expand on this kind of stuff without bogging down the comic with excessive amounts of info and dialogue.

Well, that's just the problem... it's hard to expand too much on the world's background details without bogging down the comic in infodumps, and Flipside isn't really about that stuff anyway... it's about the characters and the setting is just that, a setting. I try to put in details about the world wherever it makes sense to do so, though... like in chapter 30 how you learn about Marvallo from Polly.

I think a wiki with all that stuff would be awesome, but unfortunately that's a lot of work... and I also kind of don't want it to be written down, because then I have to figure out every little detail about how my world works. I'd prefer to have some aspects of the world be vague so that if I have a good idea later on, I can incorportate it, whereas on the other hand if I detail all of the world's races and religions now, that leaves no room for new ideas in those areas later on.

More monsters, huh? Maybe you're right... although, Iscariot isn't really a world where monsters run rampant like a traditional RPG, generally the only monsters are the ones specifically created by sorcerers, like the Maw back in Book 0.