It really was a winning logo. I read as much as I could about Trent and NIN back in the day, and in one unofficial biography (not sure if there's an official one yet, but at the time this was all I could get my hands on) and reading about Trent coming up with the name. There were all these phalic meaning people were trying to attach to it, or S&M related messages, but turns out it didn't mean a goddamn thing. He just liked the way it looked on paper, liked how clean the acronym looked. Thought it was kind of elemental, which it was/is. It's like the Batman shield of rock logos. Everyone knows what it means, fan or not, old or young, 1987 to 2016. So yeah, it was a quietly, subtly brilliant marketing decision... there seemed to be all these deeper meanings in the words he chose, and the Halo business. The logo, at the end of the day, almost looks like a single cryptographic character. Something NIN had in common with my other electronic hero of that era, Richard D. James, and the multi-platform use of the Aphex Twin logo.

Exactly. That more symbolic cleaner stuff is what drew me in, and for the reasons you are stating. It always had that "You have to be 'in the know' to get it." Some of my earlier experiences with elitism I guess looking back on it, ha.

And that is interesting to hear about the band name. I was in the circle of friends that fell for the "that was the length of nail Christ was crucified with" rumor. Kind of blowing my mind now hearing I learned it wrong. I just never questioned it since the internet became such a thing, I guess. Ha. I guess I have learned something today!

Exactly. That more symbolic cleaner stuff is what drew me in, and for the reasons you are stating. It always had that "You have to be 'in the know' to get it." Some of my earlier experiences with elitism I guess looking back on it, ha.

And that is interesting to hear about the band name. I was in the circle of friends that fell for the "that was the length of nail Christ was crucified with" rumor. Kind of blowing my mind now hearing I learned it wrong. I just never questioned it since the internet became such a thing, I guess. Ha. I guess I have learned something today!

I guess I could be wrong about the name. But I'm pretty sure the "how it looks on paper" line was a direct quote from Trent. I also remember that he was really interested in names and logos and "brands," like The Who's famous logo, or the typeface most commonly used for the Doors. He wanted it to be punchy and versatile, and to look clean. It's quite versatile, since it essentially functions as two band "names." Nine Inch Nals, obviously, and NIN, which is probably the second most widely known acronym in music (behind maybe CCR... and I suppose CSN/CSN&Y.

And yeah, some of this stuff came during a particularly snobby phase for me. Before I was old enough to understand how stupid music elitism was. Also too young to realize just how non-elite NIN is is the grand scheme of things. Joy Division fans would have laughed in my face. But I felt superior to the kids who wore the bright Manson shirts and painted their nails.

Of course, within a couple years I was dressing like Ian Mackaye, so... joke's on me.

I really found myself loving Year Zero about 3-4 years after it came out, after initially being thoroughly uninpressed. Had a harder industrial edge to it, little less poppy than With Teeth (which was SUCH a huge record, my god... I was not expecting that).

Been a long while since I've listened to any of it though. Kinda getting in the mood now.

P.s. I just re-watched season 4 of Arrested Development on Netflix, and I don't understand why it's gotten such a bad rap. People talk about it like it's the Phantom Menace of dumbass tv comedy series, but it's actually just as good as plenty of seasons 1-3. Yeah, it plays out more like a novel than a show, but who cares? Bring on season 5 already. Or a movie. Or fucking anything!!

P.s. I just re-watched season 4 of Arrested Development on Netflix, and I don't understand why it's gotten such a bad rap. People talk about it like it's the Phantom Menace of dumbass tv comedy series, but it's actually just as good as plenty of seasons 1-3. Yeah, it plays out more like a novel than a show, but who cares? Bring on season 5 already. Or a movie. Or fucking anything!!

Agreed. The last season was great, I thought. The whole lead-up stories then actual reveal of Fakeblock had me rolling.

Agreed. The last season was great, I thought. The whole lead-up stories then actual reveal of Fakeblock had me rolling.

Yeah, I know! But there was such a fan backlash that I think the writers got nervous, and went back to the drawing board to do something else (an actual movie this time, last I heard, but a two/three hour "Season 5 movie" on Netflix, not the actual movie movie that's been a pipe dream since the original show's finale.

I just don't get how people could watch S4 and not want more.

I mean, that last moment was an all-time first for the show! It was actually emotionally poignant and powerful, not in a sardonic, nihilistic, "I've made a huge mistake" kind of way either.

You know what I'm talking about, I'm sure. With George-Michael (nee MaHeiress) and Michael outside Rebel Alley's apartment? The punch? The way said punch was taken, and the "ok, this is war" look that settled onto Michael's face after the shock faded? Then it all went black, and this music — real music... a welcome change of pace from the silly little "Watch us, watch us" songs, or the characters singing something ridiculous a la "Herbert Love sings to prostitutes" — comes on, and the show actually got "real" for the first time ever. Then black out.

How could anyone not want to see what was next? I'll bet they never make another episode or continue the story in any way. I'll bet we never get to find out...
- if George Sr. and Lucille actually get divorced
- if Maeby ever graduates from high school
- how many of the multiple "are they gay?" characters are gay
- what the fuck happened to Tobias after his boat blued itself
- why George Sr. had "baby level" testosterone and the "estrogen levels of a "perfectly healthy middle aged woman in her mensies"

I fucking hated it so much. I endured the first seasons because I liked the scenes where the whole family was together riffing off each other. The last season was a deeply unfunny piece of shit. The way they had to shoot it ruined the interplay between the characters and actors and instead showed them all to be exactly what they are, a bunch of rich, clueless white fucks whose only real problems are that they are all a bunch of assholes. That shit is not funny at all.

The final season was filmed on an extremely tight budget, meaning that they had each actor available for a very limited amount of filming time, and having most or all of the cast in scenes together would have been too expensive to shoot. They ended up changing the entire dynamics of the show by using scenes where only two or three of the cast interact at a time, building up the "plot" that way, and reducing the cast's amazing adlibbing and improvisational opportunities.

Gob is a fucking asshole when not balanced by his family. Michael comes off as a fucking pathetic fuck in his own right when not contrasted with his horrible family. Michael Jr has NO REASON TO EXIST apart from his supposed crush on Maybe.

God it was brutal to watch that last season.

I was never a huge fan, because I get tired of endless TV shows about white folks with superficially interesting "problems" which are not really problems, instead being just dumb shit miscommunications and stupidity unchecked.

Plus every single character that was not a rich white person was a fucking cartoon for ridicule.

The final season was filmed on an extremely tight budget, meaning that they had each actor available for a very limited amount of filming time, and having most or all of the cast in scenes together would have been too expensive to shoot. They ended up changing the entire dynamics of the show by using scenes where only two or three of the cast interact at a time, building up the "plot" that way, and reducing the cast's amazing adlibbing and improvisational opportunities.

Gob is a fucking asshole when not balanced by his family. Michael comes off as a fucking pathetic fuck in his own right when not contrasted with his horrible family. Michael Jr has NO REASON TO EXIST apart from his supposed crush on Maybe.

God it was brutal to watch that last season.

I was never a huge fan, because I get tired of endless TV shows about white folks with superficially interesting "problems" which are not really problems, instead being just dumb shit miscommunications and stupidity unchecked.

Plus every single character that was not a rich white person was a fucking cartoon for ridicule.

I kind of think you've managed to somehow miss the entire point of the show. The entire thing is about laughing at the very people you seem to think it accidentally catered to. Yes, EVERYONE is an idiot. Everyone is spoiled beyond belief. Everyone believes they're entitled to whatever they want. The funny part is how obvious their emotional emptiness is. If you ever thought Michael was anything other than a completely pathetic asshole, you were watching the show wrong.

I don't know about your claims about the budget, but it doesn't strike me as a particularly budget-concerned show to begin with. You may be right, but from my understanding, the plot of season 4 was written in a certain way to add another dimension to the narrative. It ended up playing out like a novel, according to Michael Hurwitz. Which wasn't his intention, but remember the show had been off the air for years, so there was an inherent need to show what each family member had been up to in the intervening years.

I think Seasob 4 had some of Gob's best moments, and some of Michael's as well. Definitely several of Tobias' best moments, and George-Michael was great in it. I loved the narration of his tapping into an almost genetic predisposition for lying (like literally every other person on the show/in his family) and kind of becoming a Bluthe for the first time.

I really just think it's a very acquired taste. There was tons of brilliant adlibbing in Season 4. It was just more character focused. The show is about soulless, narcissistic people. That's the entire point. There's no hero. There's just ridiculousness. It's a great deal like Seinfeld in that regard.

P.s. P_green, when you recently listened to classic NIN for the first time, did you happen to listen to Broken, or was it just TDS?

I think you might like Broken. It's mastering may make it sound a bit dated by 2016 standards, but if you can listen to any of the '80s post-punk shit we all seem to cherish, that shouldn't be a problem. That's a record with teeth, I tell ya. Serious teeth.

why don't you love me? you find it amusing that what you see is me approaching the horizon? i saw the void long ago and now im oneness with it. sad to say i was once externally, inner frightfully scared beyond language of it but, now i can say without blood that's it's love.

take that Trent! we should make a bloodless pact to becum lifelong terrorless void swimming bros. surfing the 5d ripples. shooting headless 1d grim reapers with our dicks. nigga!!

today i painted an espresso stained piece of oak wood and it made me cry. the texture was beyond belief. like petting a real life leopard coat. amazing. all before my eyes. all the energy and hunting strife and stamina came alive on my fingers.