ID Cards Compulsory in UK by 2010 - Official

man thats a great BBC link, really lays it out. I was searching for one mainstream one and missed that somehow.

nice one, give you a WATS for that as its very usefull for me, backs up eveything ive been saying about world ID based in USA for a while and getting
laughed at! and mainstream links demanded!
Ill have my revenge. Cheers

The NH House yesterday voted overwhelmingly to reject the Transportation Committee's recommendation of ITL and in a subsequent motion to pass HB
1582, forbidding any state agency from participating in any national ID requirement. The bill is succinct and to the point:

STATE OF NEW HAMPSHIRE

In the Year of Our Lord Two Thousand Six

AN ACT prohibiting New Hampshire from participating in a national identification card system.

Be it Enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives in General Court convened:

1 Prohibition Against Participation in National Identification System. The general court finds that the public policy established by Congress in the
Real ID Act of 2005, Public Law 109-13, is contrary and repugnant to Articles 1 through 10 of the New Hampshire constitution as well as Amendments 4
though 10 of the Constitution for the United States of America. Therefore, the state of New Hampshire shall not participate in a national
identification card system; nor shall the department of safety amend the procedures for applying for a driver's license under RSA 263 or an
identification card under RSA 260:21.

From what I read in the UK, it appears your government is openly abandoning democracy, or just using it as a farce, because it is being rejected
somewhere, but they are going to overturn it anyways.
Ah well at least we know New Hampshire will be willing to fight here in th eStates. I will make sure to look up whats going on in Florida as well.

well its not really related to this thread, but just regarding government lies as we have arrived at that, here is another example, this article is
interesting in the light of current events and accusations

Well I suppose there is nothing left to say. Good luck citizens of the U.K. We will be watching your reactions and responses, as well as the
consequences to this new time in your history. It will be an example to the rest of the civilized world.

I suppose an ambitious corporation may attempt to capitalize on this time by selling subscriptions to watch the British surveilannce system.

If anyone has any ideas on who, please feel free U2U me. Were if this company decides to trade publicly on the stock market, would be worth a good
gain in assets. Just do not forget to pay the capital gains tax

. Those taxes support our efforts all over the world to prevent us
from ending up like Britain.

This is where the hit the nail on the head. A Government in a Democratic Nation is meant to be ran by the people for the people. In this case, the vat
majority do not want something - yet the Government is still forcing it. That's not a democracy. We're being forced to do something against our
will, in turn if we do not we'll be criminals. Thus you're criminalizing innocent people and creating more control. It's a case of the Government
pushing and pushing until we as a people snap back.

Dyepes, i realy think you are struggling to grasp this.
You are getting them in the USA as well.
on a very similar timeline to us.
though obviously i dont know all the details of the scheme, ill guess that its pretty similar overall. Exept you guys are getting it through drivers
licences because none of you have passports

Hey like I said all of my information has already been taken by the government because of past crimes. Most of the corporations in our country has the
addresses and contact information, as well as purchase habits, credit information and more for pretty much the entire population of our nation. Every
state already issues their own drivers licenses. Putting a little extra that they already have into our card is not going to hurt anyones freedoms.

The fact of the matter is we will not have to have it on us whenever and wherever we go and be subject to random inspections or face fines if we dont
carry them. You can give me the card put as long as im entitled to leave it at home while I move around, it does not bother my freedoms at all.

Besides as you can see by the link I posted earlier, some states are passing legislation banning any of their state agencies from even participating
in this National Id act. Trust me buddy, its alot more democratic here than you want to believe.

It is understandable, the US is the envy of the world anyways. And on another note, at least now every innocent person knows what it feels like to be
not-guilty and still treated like a criminal. Perhaps you will change your thinking on people who have had their record scarred for no reason and are
treated unfairly for it.

Anyways you all Brits, if you wish to move somewhere go to New Hampshire, they will not participate in any way with the National ID act.

Originally posted by DYepes
The fact of the matter is we will not have to have it on us whenever and wherever we go and be subject to random inspections or face fines if we dont
carry them.

yes you will

..... its very hush hush
you just dont realise it yet.

so will we over here

just like they have to in Italy

Besides as you can see by the link I posted earlier, some states are passing legislation banning any of their state agencies from even participating
in this National Id act. Trust me buddy, its alot more democratic here than you want to believe.

Yea that is true, states are fighting back against it. thats a very good thing.
but will they win?
It will just keep coming, they have been pushing it for years and years and continually getting rejected.
The trend you are missing is not that some are rejecting it, but that some are now accepting it.
the rejecting is nothing new, the accepting is.

AdamJ you say so on speculation, but it is not so. You only wish that Americans will have to bear the burden of living their daily lives with this
thing on them at all times, but it will not be the case. Sure it may be needed to get some things done, but there will be no consequnces for, nor
legislation demanding you must carry it on you wherever you go.

This place is just far too large to think about doing that. Do you know how easy it is to eliminate an incoming tank column into a city? You simply
hide a large number of people with grenades and assault rifles in the manholes and destroyed cars and buildings, and when they have reached a certain
point, the command is sent to ambush. The gunners on top will be destroyed in the first few minutes. You will be too close for them to launch their
shells at you. Then you drop the grenades into the command center inside, and poof. With a little maintenance, and likely few casualties, you have
acquired several tanks being taking the offensive. You will be able to use these to knock gunships out of the sky by distracting them in one
location.

Of course that is the problem in Britain, they lost their means to fight back when they lost their guns... how sad.

trust me if it were as you say, there will be mass burning here in the states, and it will likely be in front of city halls and courthouses.

Originally posted by DYepes
AdamJ you say so on speculation, but it is not so. You only wish that Americans will have to bear the burden of living their daily lives with this
thing on them at all times, but it will not be the case. Sure it may be needed to get some things done, but there will be no consequnces for, nor
legislation demanding you must carry it on you wherever you go.

They said the same in the UK it wouldn't be compulsory. It would be remarkably easy to implement the systems required over a number of years. First
banks and driving licenses, then your local supermarket or whatever else. I would say passports but few americans have them so what would be the
point?

The UK government said we wouldn't need to carry them but they started to sneak little bits through here and there like needing it to access a bank
account. Well that means i would have to carry it a few days a week. Oh but also you may need it for other services, so i have to carry it more often.
In the end it becomes easier to carry it than not. A clever strategy really.

Stop saying things that make it sound like we are wishing the downfall of america. It is deeply annoying and most people don't want that. You are
simply trying to make someones ideas sound stupid by saying that. I like the american people it is just the government you have in power that i
dislike, at the moment i dislike my government though for very obvious reasons discussed in this thread. I hope they call an early general
election.

If we wanted america to fail then we wouldn't be trying to stop these cards. We wouldn't even discuss other then to bash it and the people living
there. As for being jelous of it, well i am sorry but that is just arrogance plain and simple. I am actually jelous of Canada though i have to
admit.

Of course that is the problem in Britain, they lost their means to fight back when they lost their guns... how sad.

Lost our means to fight back? Sorry no. Did you ever see the poll tax riots? If they turn guns on the public then that actually would be the end of
our government.

The problem is that people in the UK simply don't care for the most part. It is apathy that allows the government to do this. I would like to know
the actual figures of people in the states who care about not having cards. If someone has those figures please link to them.

Originally posted by DYepes
AdamJ you say so on speculation, but it is not so. You only wish that Americans will have to bear the burden of living their daily lives with this
thing on them at all times, but it will not be the case. Sure it may be needed to get some things done, but there will be no consequnces for, nor
legislation demanding you must carry it on you wherever you go.

This place is just far too large to think about doing that. Do you know how easy it is to eliminate an incoming tank column into a city? You simply
hide a large number of people with grenades and assault rifles in the manholes and destroyed cars and buildings, and when they have reached a certain
point, the command is sent to ambush. The gunners on top will be destroyed in the first few minutes. You will be too close for them to launch their
shells at you. Then you drop the grenades into the command center inside, and poof. With a little maintenance, and likely few casualties, you have
acquired several tanks being taking the offensive. You will be able to use these to knock gunships out of the sky by distracting them in one
location.

Of course that is the problem in Britain, they lost their means to fight back when they lost their guns... how sad.

trust me if it were as you say, there will be mass burning here in the states, and it will likely be in front of city halls and courthouses.

No, sir

I do not say so only on speculation, suspition as well. And a little bit of knowledge.
I am afraid that whether there will be legislation or not, you will have to carry it on you everywhere (like us) and most likely show it to the police
as well, because they will make it that way.
I say that not because i want the downfall of the United States, thats not a concern of mine either way. I say it because i think i can see the
strategy behind whats going on with these cards.

How to elminate an incoming tank column into a city?

no, i cant say i was an expert on that. Ive learned something.
I think however that you misunderstand how tyranny befalls people, particularly how it would befall the citizens of the largest and most powerfull
empire on earth.
It will not come to the United States through tank columns entering cities, at least until it is too late to stop.

You dont understand your nation sir, you are too optimistic.
You are strong willed enough and motivated enough to defend the history and reputation of the great United States from enemies foreign and domestic,
but not all are like you, the majority of the modern population living there now are not. They have not sufferend under tyranny or felt threatened for
whole generations. Most of them do not believe it exists anymore, they dont believe it can happen anymore. Not in modern America.

The people running the United States are very sly and smart and know just how to play the game to get what they want.
Whatever happens, Delta force taking guns, UN troops in Los Angeles, it wont be on the news unless it can be spun in a good way. And if its not on the
news it never happened.

I think most americans will take the microchip when the time comes. I think the same about the those in the UK as well.
In western society there are no more than 5% who will go to prison to defend their beliefs, the rest will just go along to get along.

Originally posted by Odium
A Government in a Democratic Nation is meant to be ran by the people for the people. In this case, the vat majority do not want something - yet the
Government is still forcing it. That's not a democracy.

- I'd like to see you back up that claim Odium.

You might not like ID cards (or the eventual compulsory element) but that doesn't mean the public don't want them.

They were a highly publicised and clear part of the government's manifesto for reelection in May 2005 (as well as being a very well known and much
commented upon part of the previous program for government in the government pre-2005).

(Opinion polls with much credibility on the topic are hard to find on the subject, if you goggle you'll find Silcon.com who for instance quote a
recent "collapse" in public support.....in a poll of 600 of their own readers! You'll also see they talk about majority support as recently as nov
2005.
......and let's be honest, the thing people seem to be commenting upon most as a reason to have doubts is the cost.)

But for all that I'll take a general election vote and result about a (well known) proposed program for government any day.

We're being forced to do something against our will, in turn if we do not we'll be criminals. Thus you're criminalizing innocent people and
creating more control. It's a case of the Government pushing and pushing until we as a people snap back.

- You're not actually being 'forced' to do anything.

You don't have to have a passport (which I think you'll find under our system is technically a 'priviledge' and not actually a 'right'
anyway).

But, if you do want and find you need one then you will eventually have to get the card.

.......and in 2 or 3 years after they come in and all the fuss has died down and some of the benefits become widely apparent people will wonder what
the problem was.

The sky isn't falling in.

................and anyway bird flu is now here so I'd be more concerned about that as something a tad more relevant to our lives and the possible
lack thereof!
(Maybe we'll need to turn to the old biometric ID card registry to identify the dead from the survivors when everything has collapsed and it's all
over?

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
You might not like ID cards (or the eventual compulsory element) but that doesn't mean the public don't want them.

I don't want them, does that not count for anything? If it were 51% for ID cards and 49% against, that doesn't mean you should go for the majority.
Because if you go ahead 49% will still be unhappy. If you don't do the cards you're going to have less unhappy people. Maybe there might be a few
that may be unhappy, like 1% that really believe we would need the cards etc.

- You're not actually being 'forced' to do anything.

You don't have to have a passport (which I think you'll find under our system is technically a 'priviledge' and not actually a 'right'
anyway).

Yeah we are. We're being forced to give over our finger prints, face scans and DNA if we want to leave the country. Also you'll have to have the ID
card if you want access to public things, such as librarys, your bank account, NHS etc. So yeah they'd like you to think you have a choice, but it's
basically compulsory.

We're being forced to do something against our will, in turn if we do not we'll be criminals. Thus you're criminalizing innocent people and
creating more control. It's a case of the Government pushing and pushing until we as a people snap back.

- You're not actually being 'forced' to do anything.

Err yes we are, as shaunybaby stated we are being forced to pay for something. I don't want one because i believe it will not do me or the country
any good at all and will be a waste of money. If these cards are going to be as expensive as planned then many people may not even be able to afford
them. Imagine a family of four on benefits, the cards if we are conservative on the cost will be £50, so they have to pay out £200 pounds? Some of
these people are actually below the pverty line and can barely buy new clothes and food, and no that is not an exaduration.

You cannot compare a passport to this. I don't have to travel and so i could opt out of a passport, i don't have to drive so i could opt out of a
driving license and so on.

Id cards would be forced upon us, we would be required not asked to pay. If we refused then it's fines and eventually prison, i am trying to find an
article detailing that as i heard Clarke talking about it at some speech he made.

For now i will link to an article saying it's going to be compulsory. Iw ould like to point out that they say it won't be compulsory to carry them,
but as i have already said in an earlier post it will become inevitable simply because they will be required to access services.

During the WWII the ID card was seen as a way of protecting the nation from Nazi spies. But in 1952, Winston Churchill's government scrapped the
cards. The feeling was that in peacetime they simply were not needed. In fact they were thought to be hindering the work of the police, because so
many people resented being asked to produce a card to prove their identity.

I finally found a link about the WWII cards there that i had mentioned earlier. Sorry it took me so long to find it.

My view on I.D cards is that everyone is very quick to mention all the 1984 refereces, though I do share concerns that they could be an invasion of
privacy. I've heard rumours you have to put in 50 bits of information about yourself, your work, even the folk you hang about with. That's a little
weird I think. To settle this, I'd rather have a referendum called to see the public's view on I.D cards.
Does the British Public want I.D cards?
But it's a little undemocratic to ask for a referendum isn't it? I mean, the government can ask the question in anyway they please, for example:
Do you want I.D cards that will make society safer overall? or something along those lines.
I dunno. Something has to be decided, and an informed debate in parliament will be more then welcome.

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