scott123

Brad, I took a look at the slide show on the site, and, although it was difficult to see the pizza, I'm relatively certain that the pizza that they sell isn't Neapolitan style. It all boils down to the oven, and the deck oven they're working with won't produce a Neapolitan style pizza. Now, if they've got a wood fired oven in the back/out of view, that's a different story, but places that have both deck ovens and WFOs are very rare.

In other words, it may say 'Neapolitan' on the menu, but it's probably just a NY style pie topped in a Neapolitan fashion or maybe stretched a little thinner. With that oven, this is a NY style shop.

The photo you posted is typical of a dense/bready supermarket flour based pizza with a long bake time (with a weak stone and or weak oven). I noticed your post last week looking for high gluten flour in your area. How did those leads pan out?

Describe your oven setup. Gas or electric? Peak temp? Stone brand and material? If you can, take a few photos of the interior of your oven with the stone in place.

Lastly, get a digital scale. With your professional aspirations, you shouldn't be working volumetrically.

all their menu's advertise neopolitan style pizza Im not really sure honestly nystyle description seems to fit them best though just with the lack of greasy-ness

braddonbach,

Maybe if you ask them what temperature they use in their ovens, that could help you to decide if it is NY style or Neopolitan pizza. Other members on this forum might also be able to help you figure this out.

edit: I see scott123 already posted on the kind of pies he thinks Brothers sell.

I just ordered some stuff from pennmac it was easier to get all the stuff since i called several of the places and they told me they didn't do cash and carry. I tried my future brother-inlaw who is a seus sp? chef at one of our local 5 stars and still waiting on him to get back to me if their supplier carries what i am looking for. From pennmac i got some grande part skim chees, 6 n 1 sauce and a 50 lbs bag of highgluten bromated flour. should be here within the week. I did get a scale good for up to 11 lbs (good enough for the small table top mixer) accurate to .01 ounces. The oven we have is just a regular electric oven gets up to 500 and i preheat for an hour with the stone on the bottom rung. i make the pizza on a pizza screen for 7-10 minutes then transfer it to the stone to get the browning and crisp. I'll try to get a pic when i get off tonight.

Hey Brad - I wish you the best of luck in this endeavour. My grandfather always told me one thing over and over again: "Perserverance over everything".

It was great advice - the first place I walked into for some advice turned me down. The next pizzeria I walked into, I just over-complimented the owner's slices and begged him to show me the ropes for free. He said sure and taught me more than I had expected. Sometimes you have to be a pushy bastard in life to get what you want. You have to keep bugging people for help. Make em laugh, break down the barrier and learn from some old timers. Two weeks in a nice whole-in-the-wall style pizzeria will do wonders for your final plan. You'll make 50lbs of dough a few times. The Aioli will school you on strecthing pies, launching them into a proper oven, and you'll write it all down. Thats what i did anyway. So I did two weeks here and there at various joints in town for free - just to learn the trade and see if I can hang. And guess what, after you stress out after a few lunch rushes. You F-up a few pies. Then you get a the full feel of what it's like to run a place. And that is what most places will do. Its normally the ex-convict whose maikng your great NY style pies - then locking up shop for the night. Just be truthful with your purpose and someone will let you in on the big pizza secrets. You'll love it. Hard work is great. It's an honest job - and if you find some cheap and creative ways to advertise, you'll get busy quick. Advertising is key though. And menu flyers work great! Just hire some kids to flyer the footprint of your potential neighbourhood, and you'll see people coming into your shop soon. Wether your pies are garbage or not... Las Vegas is living proof of successful garbage pizzeria. Everything gets better with constant practice

Also, it doesn't hurt to hire a decent looking younger female to sit at the desk all day. Someone who's easy one the eyes. You'd be surpised how many guys will come back just to have a quick superfluous conversation with a cute chick..... and then buy a couple slices and a large Coke. Its those small things that seperate a good small pizza place from a pizzeria who cranks out lousy food. It matters to me, anyway. On a sublime note - I think it matters to anybody who'll be parting with their cash.

And dont be affraid to give away a few slices here and there. Regardless of RoadPizza's claims of sky-rocketing flour prices (tee-hee... still makes me laugh a little.) Those free slices didnt cost you much at all, but it'll really resonate in the minds of hungry dudes who like that sort of thing. Its kinda like your spending a dime to make a buck, ya see what I'm getting at here? My immigrant dad taught me alot about building relationships in business. And consumers love a great host.

Anyway, that is my current advice to you. Sure, you'll get the recipies down quicker than you think. Like I already said: Put an ad on C-list for a pizza guy and you'll be flooded with talent who will be quick to show the ropes a little. You'll get a great dough recipie out of it, and maybe even a decent sauce too. Yeah, the economy sucks right now, but people will never stop eating pizza.....and flour will always be nice and cheap

Thanks for the post, I appreciate it. The place i buy from for pizza's the manager/pizza maker has been helping me out. although she can be a lil hard to understand cuz of her accent but its helpful none the less.I had just got my order in from pennmac yesterday man i felt like a little kid waking up for christmas , I made some dough using a new recipe my sister in laws roommate who is a baking chef, idk how it'll turn out will find out tonight and get a pic for you guys this evening hopefully itll be better then the grocery store ingredients

too low of a temp and/or not long enough of a cook time. can't open a shop with undercooked/raw looking pizza.

Yeah, I normally take the pizza off the pizza screen at that point and then place them on to the stone to crisp, but for some reason I could not slide off the pizza's like I normally do. This was the recipe for this dough flour 100%water 50%sugar 2%yeast 3%salt 2%oil 18%The oil was WAY too much, you could smell the oil and taste it with every bite.

for this week I adjusted it to this flour 100%water 63%sugar 2%yeast 3%salt 2%oil 3%

try using a cookie sheet to block the top element from direct heat if you have a convection oven, if you have two racks that is. place the one rack at the lowest, the other at the highest. the lowest rack will be your pizza rack, and the highest will hold the cookie sheet. i've been struggling with crust for months in my oven at all sorts of temps, screens and stones and the top element is just too powerful in contrast to the bottom.

At the retail level, I have been seeing some increases in the price of flours that I use. For a while, they had dropped but nowhere near the level I was paying a few years ago.

Peter

I know you know your stuff, Pete. I was just trying to illustrate the point that a rise in cost in materials shouldn't deter the guy from going for it. The only reason I could see for wheat prices rising is the cost to haul them across country, which is ultimately atributed to rising petrol costs.....right

I dunno, I was just teasing RoadPizza a little. I am sure he is a wealth of info as well. On that note - the Grand opening of my good freind's Pizzeria was a smash hit tonight. He said the 50lb bags of KYROL were nice and cheap. I am still aiming for a small shop somewhere in the future. More inspiration. Jimmy's pies were fantastic as usual.

BTW, thank you for always being so thorough. I appreciate that. - Theo

Ok, so The pizza came out great for the most part, still a little undercooked in the center, but I believe it was because the dough was so thin in the center there was nothing to cook , However, the dough was pretty neat, I didnt have to work out a pie like normal i took it outta the container and as i was doing so gravity stretched it out, and boom i had my 16 inch pizza, I know that shouldn't of happened that easy any ideas on what I may have done wrong?

scott123

Brad, which 'highgluten bromated flour' did you buy? Does it have a brand name?

Your biggest obstacle, by far, is your 500 deg oven. A 500 peak temp (with a longer bake time) pretty much guarantees a dense bready crust. A more conductive stone will help reduce your bake time a bit, but there's no stone on the market (at least not yet), that can, at 500 deg., bake a 4-5 minute NY style pie, which is where you want to be for great oven spring and a puffy chewy crust.

Using a frozen towel, you should have no problem hitting 600-650. The actual temp you want to go with will depend on your stone. Tell us a little bit more about your stone. Size? Thickness? Brand? If you don't know the brand, describe it or take a photo.

Once you start covering your thermostat, you will lose it as a temperature gauge. If you don't have an infrared thermometer, it's time to get one. They have used thermometers on ebay for $20.

What thickness factor are you working with? From the photos, it looks like you're working with way too much dough for a pie of that diameter. Having a 500 deg. peak temp is bad enough, but too much dough is the kiss of death for oven spring. Post your current recipe (actual quantities in grams, not percents) and diameter.

Screens create air pockets between the pizza and the stone, which, in turn extends your bake time. Lose the screen, buy a peel and use it.

It's going to take some to master skin forming, especially with less dough. Flour and yeast are pretty cheap. Make a lot of extra dough balls and use them to practice stretching. Here's a good video (ignore the rolling pin stuff).

The goal should be a very thin, somewhat even skin with only a slight taper towards the middle. The middle always has a tendency to thin out, so you have to actively work against that as you form the skin. The larger rim doesn't come from forming but from oven spring.

also, don't work the center of your dough. only touch it to pop bubbles. the outside crust border and about 1/3 of the way in will stretch the other 2/3 of the pizza when you stretch them. leave the dough slightly thicker (about 2-4x that of the thickness inside the crust rim) depending on your process/size of finished pizza.

well the family needed a little break from pizza's so I attempted to make some fresh sub rolls didn't work so good lol came out like bread sticks. So i made 2 calzone-like creations and one small 6inch pizza for me. It just looks so good sitting there outta the oven i had to take a pic and show you guys.