Gordon Hutchinson Concealed Carry Training

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Any reader is welcome to post anything written or produced by me on any reasonable, related forum or blog as long as attribution of the author and this blog address are given. In other words, tell where you got it, and from whom. Don't steal or plagiarize. And don't post my stuff anyplace you wouldn't want your mother or your child reading.

The Great New Orleans Gun Grab

A searing expose' of the scandal of gun confiscations that occurred in New Orleans in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. Lest we ever forget.

The Quest and the Quarry

A hunting story of the Deep South. How generations of kids from a farming family are taught the lessons of life through the experience of the hunt by one wise old grandfather, and a line of trophy bucks they pursue.

About Me

Author: "THE GREAT NEW ORLEANS GUN GRAB" (with Todd Masson), an expose' of the anarchy and outrageous behavior of civil authorities who confiscated thousands of guns from law-abiding citizens in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.
Also the author of "THE QUEST AND THE QUARRY"--a southern novel of the hunt.
Firearms columnist for LOUISIANA, NORTH & SOUTH CAROLINA, and MISSISSIPPI SPORTSMAN magazines.
Founding Member of the
Vast Right Wing Conspiracy.
Training Officer and Spokesperson
for the Lunatic Fringe.
Unapologetic Gun Nut
(with apologies to David E. Petzal.) Former Airborne Infantry Officer (82nd Airborne Division.) Former law enforcement firearms instructor. Current concealed carry instructor.
gordonhutchinson.com

Katrina Survivors Take Arms

Jo Ann Guidos, owner of Kajun's Bar, stood off looters with her handguns, Remington 1100 shotgun, and a motley crew of regulars at her bar. They are shown here standing outside the bar a day or two before her guns were confiscated by U.S. Marshals as she was attempting to load her vehicles and get out of the madness of New Orleans. Photo courtesy of Jo Ann Guidos

"8 Bodies In Place"

These are the ubiquitous signs--the hex symbols of the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. Teams would spray the signs on the outside of buildings once they had been searched. At the top was the date of the search. On each side of the "X" was the numerical identifier of the unit conducting the search. At the bottom of the symbol was the number of bodies found in the building. In this case, eight people were found in Jo Ann Guido's bar. If the bodies were not alive, the more chilling "Dead" would be added under the number. Photo courtesy Jo Ann Guidos.

Followers

Sunday, March 15, 2009

Notice: Thanks to the hundreds of people who have responded to this posting, and the thousands of gun owners who e-mailed DOD and their representatives in Congress...

This situation has been resolved.

DOD rescinded the order after a firestorm of criticism--which began almost immediately when they issued a directive to mutilate all expended military brass before it could be sold to the civilian reloading market.

For a complete explanation of this decision by DOD, go to the main address for this blog (www.theshootist.net) and scroll down to the next posting after this one: "Plowshares Beaten Back Into Bullets."

Thank you for your concern and participation.

You proved we can all make a difference in defending our rights to own and use firearms.

(The following is the original posting which was instrumental--along with other bloggers, and national firearms organizations--in alerting the nation's gun owners of what was seen by many as a back-door attempt to cripple the ammunition supply and its availability to shooters...)

We all wondered when it was going to start--when the new administration would make their move against us as gun owners.

Oh, everyone got upset about HR45--I'll bet I got over 100 e-mails warning me about this draconian gun registration bill that had been introduced in Congress.

I was really glad to see Tom Gresham, host of "Gun Talk Radio," an editor, writer, television host on "Self-Defense TV," and one of the foremost gun spokespersons, come out and tell everyone to stop worrying about legislation so absolutely over-the-top--it would never get out of committee.

Tom said save your energy for when we really need it--don't expend it trying to warn everyone in your e-mail list about legislation that would go nowhere.

Now, Tom just interviewed me, and Larry Haynie, owner of Georgia Arms (http://www.georgia-arms.com/), on Gun Talk (http://www.guntalk.com/)--and Tom agrees, now is the time to "...unleash the hounds..." by which he means start e-mailing and writing your senators and congressmen.

Now it has come clear...now we know what they intend to do.

It is an end-run around Congress. They don't need to try to ban guns--they don't need to fight a massive battle to attempt gun registration, or limit "assault" weapon sales.

Nope. All they have to do is limit the amount of ammunition available to the civilian market, and when bullets dry up, guns will be useless.

Think we jest?

Here are copies of two letters sent to Georgia Arms just Thursday evening--effectively cancelling a contract he had to purchase 30,000 pounds of expended military brass in .223, 7.62mm, and .50 caliber:

Dear Valued Customer:

Please take a moment to note important changes set forth by the Defense Logistics Agency:

Recently it has been determined that fired munitions of all calibers, shapes and sizes have been designated to be Demil code B. As a result and in conjunction with DLA's current Demil code B policy, this notice will serve as official notification which requires Scrap Venture (SV) to implement mutilation as a condition of sale for all sales of fired munitions effective immediately. This notice also requires SV to immediately cease delivery of any fired munitions that have been recently sold or on active term contracts, unless the material has been mutilated prior to sale or SV personnel can attest to the mutilation after delivery. A certificate of destruction is required in either case.

Thank you,

DOD Surplus15051 N Kierland Blvd # 300Scottsdale, AZ 85254

March 12, 2009

Larry HaynieGeorgia ArmsPO Box 238Villa Rica, GA 30180

Re: Event 7084-6200:

Dear Larry Haynie,

Effective immediately DOD Surplus, LLC, will be implementing new requirements for mutilation of fired shell casings. The new DRMS requirement calls for DOD Surplus personnel to witness the mutilation of the property and sign the Certificate of Destruction. Mutilation of the property can be done at the DRMO, if permitted by the Government, or it may be mutilated at a site chosen by the buyer. Mutilation means that the property will be destroyed to the extent prevents its reuse or reconstruction. DOD Surplus personnel will determine when property has been sufficiently mutilated to meet the requirements of the Government.

If you do not agree with the new conditions of your spot sale, please sign the appropriate box provided below stating that you do not agree to the new terms and would like to cancel your purchase effective immediately. If you do agree to the new terms please sign in the appropriate box provided below to acknowledge your understanding and agreement with the new requirements relating to your purchase. Fax the signed document back to (480) 367-1450, emailed responses are not acceptable.

Please respond to this request no later than close of business Monday, March 16th, 2009.

Sincerely,

Government Liquidation.

Got that? From now on, remanufacturers of military brass will not be able to buy surplus brass from DOD--actually from Government Liquidators, llc.--the corporation that sells surplus materials for the U.S. government. At least, not in any form recognizable as once-fired brass ammunition.

Now all brass ammunition will have to be shredded, and sold as scrap.

Georgia Arms, who brought this to our attention, is the 5th largest ammunition manufacturer of centerfire pistol and rifle ammunition in the U.S.

"We're right up there behind Hornady," Larry Haynie told me.

He also told me with the cancellation of his contract to purchase this brass, and the ending of his ability to purchase any more expended military ammunition, he will have to severely curtail his operation--laying off approximately half his 60-person work force.

Haynie further pointed out this move is a stupendous waste of taxpayer money--reducing the worth of the brass some 80%--from casings, to shredded bulk brass.

He stated most of this will now go to foundries where it will be melted down, cast in shippable forms, and likely be sold to China, one of the largest purchasers of U.S. metals on the open market.

Haynie was manufacturing over 1 million rounds of .223 ammunition every month, which he sold on the civilian market to resellers, and to law enforcement agencies across the country.

He will start tomorrow sending cancellations of orders for .223 to law enforcement agencies all over the country.

You can expect this to affect every bullet you purchase in the future--with no reloaded ammunition available, the already strained new manufacturers will be unable to meet demand. They are already turning out everything they can build for the military market. The civilian market is stressed to the point even reloading components have become hard to find.

Now, with this hit, ammunition prices will go through the roof in the next year.

Your quality piece, sitting in your gun rack, will become a very expensive wood and steel, or plastic and steel club.

What can you do?

Google "contact members of Congress" or simply type in http://www.congress.org/.When you reach that site, type in your zip code--it will give you all your representatives, senators, and their web pages.

Here is a letter I just sent to Representative Bill Cassidy, Congressman from the 6th District of Louisiana, and Senator David Vitter of Louisiana. I will be sending it to every member of our congressional delegation. Feel free to copy it and paste in your own e-mail, sending it to your legislators.

We have to stop this now!

The Honorable Bill CassidyMember of Congress from Louisiana

Dear Congressman Cassidy:

It has come to my attention that the Department of Defense has issued a directive that all expended military brass (fired cases) will now be shredded and sold for scrap material, rather than resold by Government Liquidators LLC to the civilian market for remanufacture.

You may not be aware of it, but there is a severe shortage of ammunition available for sale to the public across the country, causing problems for shooters, hunters, and reloaders everywhere.

Now, apparently the Obama administration, realizing they cannot move against private firearms ownership since the landmark decision by the U.S. Supreme Court in the Washington D.C./Heller case, has made their move in another way.

By cutting off the resale of expended military ammunition to remanufacturers, they have put a stranglehold on the nation's ammunition supply.

Further, they have reduced the return to the government on expended brass by 80%. What was sold for remanufacturer at a fair return to the government, will now cost the taxpayers untold sums of money as the cost of scrap brass is far below the price per pound for expended military ammunition.

In addition, the use of remanufactured ammunition is a huge asset to law enforcement agencies across the country who buy millions of rounds of reloaded ammunition a year from these manufacturers for practice rounds.

With this market gone, law enforcement will no longer be able to purchase inexpensive reloaded ammunition, and with the continuing combat status of military forces across the Middle East, original manufacturers of new ammunition are turning out everything they can make to the government, thus exacerbating the shortage of new ammunition in both the civilian and law enforcement market.

Lastly, in these harsh economic times, does it not strike you as cold and calculating that the Obama administration has no compunction against ruining an industry that employs thousands of American citizens in the remanufacturing of sporting and military ammunition. One major resupplier, Georgia Arms, the fifth largest manufacturer of centerfire pistol and rifle ammunition has informed me he will have to quickly lay off half his 60-person workforce, as he has had to cancel contracts with dozens of police agencies who had contracted with him to supply them with remanufactured .223 ammunition.

Georgia Arms has been practically put out of business by this directive that all expended military brass must be shredded. His current contracts have been canceled, and he is notifying his customers across the country he can no longer supply their ammunition needs.

Please look into this immediately. This move by the Obama administration is nothing but a back-door strike against firearms ownership in this country--if shooters can't buy ammunition, the guns are little better than steel clubs--and this is obviously the intent.

Thank you for your time and efforts in this serious attack against the Second Amendment rights of the American citizenry.

Sincerely,

Gordon Hutchinson

Author "The Great New Orleans Gun Grab"

Firearms Columnist for Louisiana, North Carolina, South Carolina, and Mississippi Sportsman magazines.

236 comments:

Here's another thought. Think about how much more money the local law enforcement agencies will have to pay for their ammunition if they can no longer buy reloads. And who funds their budgets? We the taxpayers do - all of us - pro and con gun rights advocates.

Heard you and Larry on Gun Talk today on the way home from church in Houston. Any way you could scan and upload images of the actual letters for viewing? I understand certain ID and account numbers may have to be blacked out.

Anonymous 1...Go to www.house.gov and www.senate.gov.Each of these sites has search functions located at the top of the page that will locate your representatives.

Anonymous 2...I'll try--but Larry Haynie (www.georgia-arms.com) sent me the letters via e-mail, and I copied and pasted what he sent. Perhaps he can be persuaded to copy and post the originals--but he's going to be really busy the next couple of days cancelling a lot of ammunition contracts.

I am an old non-gun-owning grandma who heard "Gun Talk" today, and am outraged at this government. I am sending this info to everyone to pass on. -- I guess the 2nd amendment didn't itemize ammunition, much less re-loading equipment.-- What a waste of brass, and to think it will end up in China. -- How many more jobs is the government eliminating? What an unbelieveable turn of events!

Obviously the Obama administration is assaulting our 2nd Amendment. Since he, like any President, is swore to uphold and defend the Constitution, this may be opportunity to carry the fight to enemy. That is, focus the outrage into a call for Obama's impeachment. Surely there is more than ample documented proof that Obama is anti-2nd Amendment.

All of this is just a tad late. This change came about last year at the suggestion of the GAO. They thought this was a way to increase security and reduce one source for making IED's. This happened after a change in leadership at DRMS. Peters left in March 2008 and Twila Gonzales took charge.

Has anybody found a link to the DOD directive? I’ve googled and searched but can’t find it in a news source or at the governmental sites. I certainly trust Messrs. Haynie and Hutchison on this and have already fired off my letters to Senators Cornyn and Hutchison and Congressman Smith (my congresfolks from here in Austin) but wanted to cite a more “disinterested” source for a post on my own site. Thanks.

The international trade in arms regulations (ITAR) lists scrap cartridges and requires they be mutilated in order to export them.

I believe that Hillary Clinton in the State Department has ordered strict compliance with the ITAR and DOD has opted to do this at the point of sale.

I believe we must direct out legislative representatives to address the this from the point this is a preemptive attempt to comply with the ITAR in the event the brass is exported.

I believe we can get the government to rescind this by agreeing to strongly worded condition of sale that the buyer would comply with the ITAR if the brass is to be exported.

They are appling or interpretating the regulations on the books. We must use the same regulations and point that the ITAR does not apply to purchases and use within the continental us by us citizens. It applies to purchases intended for export or use by a foreign nation.

This appears to be an attempt to build a fence around a regulation to insure the US does not violate the rules we enforce on other nations.

Has anybody found a link to the DOD directive? I’ve googled and searched but can’t find it in a news source or at the governmental sites. I certainly trust Messrs. Haynie and Hutchison on this and have already fired off my letters to Senators Cornyn and Hutchison and Congressman Smith (my congresfolks from here in Austin ) but wanted to cite a more “disinterested” source for a post on my own site. Thanks.

Yggaz Said:I think all ammo manufacturers should simply stop selling ammunition to the Federal Government. Give the Obama administration a taste of its own medicine.

That would be nice but it isn't really possible and too bad it isn't that simple. Government has priority on purchases. I can't remember what it's called again, but the Govt. can bud in front of any buyer and buy anything it 'needs'.

I'm sure there are certainly those that would love to drive the price of ammo and brass through the roof to make it infeasible for us to purchase.

However, I would like to point out that the "regulations" we're talking about here do NOT say that brass will be destroyed in CONUS. This is only O-CONUS. The specific regulation is found at http://www.drms.dla.mil/publications/4160.14/section2/s2c1.pdf

and specifically states, and I quote from it below. So please, people before you get your brass in a bramble, try RESEARCHING this stuff before you believe whatever is written on the Internet.

C1.9.8.1.2.2 The term also includes, for purposes of the RRRP policy document, scrap (including ferrous and nonferrous scrap) and specifically, firing range expended brass and mixed metals gleaned from firing range cleanup which do not require DEMIL.

NOTEDOD 4715.4 authorizes QRPs to recycle firing-range scrap consisting of expended brass and mixed metals gleaned from firing range clearance through direct sales or consignment to DRMS. Mixed metals gleaned from firing range clean up are defined as material (e.g., shrapnel) which is in a form that is unrecognizable from its original configuration and does not require further DEMIL. For information, the DOD Instruction requires that generators in CONUS who choose to sell expended brass through direct sale must mutilate it by crushing, shredding, cutting, tearing, scratching, crushing, breaking, punching, shearing, burning, neutralizing, etc., or otherwise destroy it prior to sale.If generators sell expended brass through DRMS there is no mutilation requirement. The rule for OCONUS is different. OCONUS QRPs can recycle expended brass through the DRMO. In order to qualify for reimbursement, the generator must demilitarize it prior to turning accountability over to the DRMO.

I agree this is a stupid thing and will hurt us. Please be aware of the truth though! This policy was handed down on June 11 2008!!!! It might fit what many accept is Obama's plan, but it was hatched under Bush! The document is at www.dla.mil/j-6/dlmso/Archives/JSACG/meetings/11Jun08/ADC_220_Small%20ArmsDefinition_DRAFT_JSACG_11June2008.doc

The first letter said, "As a result and in conjunction with DLA's current Demil code B policy, this notice will serve as official notification which requires Scrap Venture (SV) to implement mutilation as a condition of sale...."________________

This indicates a change in how DLA interprets the requirements of Demil code B. It would be useful to know who instituted the change in policy interpretation. Was it someone in DLA, or OSD, or higher? Was it the result of Congressional pressure (which could mean one Senator) or was there a change in the law?

If it was someone in DLA, some pressure might get it changed back. If it was someone in OSD, then you'll probably need someone in Congress to go to bat for you.

You folks need to talk to someone in DLA and ask a few pertinent questions. There is also the FOIA route, but be very specific in what you ask for and don't expect a quick answer.

That's a pretty good letter, but depending on the political persuasion of your Congressman, you might want to leave out the aspersions about the motives of the Obama Administration, and focus purely on the consequences of the actions. For example, I'm not going to tell Tim Walz, an A-rated NRA supporter, but a Democrat, "Now, apparently the Obama administration, realizing they cannot move against private firearms ownership since the landmark decision by the U.S. Supreme Court in the Washington D.C./Heller case, has made their move in another way."

Please explain to me why you have a right to cheap ammunition?With commodity prices as they are, it is possible the government could get more for the brass on the open market.Do you think the government should take a loss to subsidize your hobby?

Note, this has nothing to do with availability or legality of bullets. Only the government sale of them.

That's a pretty good letter, but depending on the political persuasion of your Congressman, you might want to leave out the aspersions about the motives of the Obama Administration, and focus purely on the consequences of the actions. For example, I'm not going to tell Tim Walz, an A-rated NRA supporter, but a Democrat, "Now, apparently the Obama administration, realizing they cannot move against private firearms ownership since the landmark decision by the U.S. Supreme Court in the Washington D.C./Heller case, has made their move in another way."

Its not about Left vs. Right. Don't fall into that false paradigm that they want to keep you in. Remember, Pres. George W. Bush Supported the Assault Weapons Ban Bill. Look it up for yourself. Google "Bush Supports Assault Weapons Ban". Here is the link to the NYT's on the subject:http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9900E6DC163FF93BA35756C0A9659C8B63

So what I'm supposed to support Bush, 'cause he's an "R", but he supported the Assault weapons ban? Please.

If you think that this is simply a Dem vs. Rep issue, you are deceived, mistaken, in denial. The current President Obama, as was his predecessor is and are merely puppets, doing the bidding of the offshore banking interests. Please, its way past time to be couching these most important issues in terms of Left vs. Right or Rep vs. Dem.

While I'm at it, we also need to wake up to the fact that CONgress is bought and paid for, save but a very few. I am sorry, but it is also waaayyy past time to believe that a call to a congress-critter is going to make a difference. Or even a million calls for that matter. The calls to CONgress against the TARP(bankster bailout) Bill were reported as a thousand to 1 against the Bill. Need I say more? And yes, I did call and email my Congressman. No response, other than tyvm for writing our offices, yada, yada, yada. Roscoe Bartlett is his name.

In the meantime, perhaps someone reading this and who has a connection with a manager at Georgia Arms could make the following suggestions:

1). Buy expended military brass from the Mexican or Canadian governments. Import it from other countries.

2). Anyone know a metal foundry that needs some business?

3). It's not as if all the brass in the world has disappeared because the Soviet U...err, I mean the fedgov.com inc., decided to stop selling it as casings. Perhaps the foundry suggested above could by the scrap, melt it and re-cast it as bullet casings?

4). Yes, there will be higher prices in the free market (read "civilian") for ammunition and for a time. Perhaps there are a few entrepreneurs out there who are greedy enough to open their own metal foundries and combine them with ammo manufacturers?

5). Don't they sell practically anything in Mexico? I wonder if anyone down there can purchase Russian made 7.62 bullets and sneak them across the border en masse?

People, we can get around this. All it takes is someone who is greedy, imaginative and willing to follow through.

Doesn't someone out there like the idea of getting rich quick manufacturing and selling ammo? Or covertly importing it?

Why whine about it? Why not get rich instead? After all, it is a seller's market so start selling!

I'm currently deployed in defense of our great nation, and as a gun enthusiast, this is downright appalling. I'm shocked, and disgusted. I've written my Congressman and Senators to tell them how I feel-hopefully, it'll have some type of impact. Hopefully, this craziness will be truncated soon!

i don't use any ammo that the govt uses. all you people that get gov subsidized ammo, well that's SOCIALISM. welcome to the real world. pay for your ammo like the rest of us. NO SOCIALISM PERIOD. breid

Thank you so much for posting this information. I will make sure it gets out to all of our members asap. Obama talked about a 500% tax rate on ammunition. This is much worse, obviously, and he can do it without many being the wiser!

"ALL SCRAP UNDER THIS CONTRACT REQUIRES MUTILATION BY THE BUYER PRIOR TO REMOVAL IF ALLOWED BY THE INSTALLATION OR MUTILATION MUST BE WITNESSED AND CERTIFIED BY DOD SURPLUS PERSONNEL AT ANOTHER FACILITY. TITLE TO THE MATERIAL DOES NOT PASS TO THE BUYER UNTIL THE SCRAP HAS BEEN MUTILATED. BUYER AGREES TO ALLOW USG PERSONNEL TO WITNESS DESTRUCTION."

From what I have read about this the Government gets more money from this as spent brass/ammo then they will if they shredded and sold for scrap material.So your comment has no merit. S.W.P. Lakeside,Ca

Sir, The Gov't doesn't care how much $$ it garners from the sale, (ie: spent brass casings vs. shredded scrap.) The auction links that Anon. sent do clearly say that all scrap ( which is the entirety of each lots contents) must be mutilated and witness verified.You can't split hairs in thinking they only mean the munition links and not the casings! This policy DOES hurt the bottom line for all of us!Terry D.

I modified the original letter just a bit, feel free to edit more or send to you reps.

Reagards, Concerned Reloader

Dear Congressman:

It has come to my attention that the Department of Defense has issued a directive that all expended military brass (fired cases) will now be shredded and sold for scrap material, rather than resold by Government Liquidators LLC to the civilian market for remanufacture. Before the DoD directive was issued any expended brass .50 caliber or smaller was sold at auction to the public without the requirement to be demilitarized, unless it was going to be exported. (DOD 41620.21-M-1, Appendix 4, Category III, paragraph C, A4-13) http://www.dla.mil/dlaps/dod/416021m1/app4.pdf

The expended brass cartridge casings are typically purchased by American manufacturing companies that recycle the casings into ammunition, commonly known as “remanufactured ammunition”. These companies are names such as Black Hills of Rapid City, SD; 3-D Ammunition, Inc. of Doniphan, NE; Hornady Manufacturing Co. of Grand Island, NE; Georgia Arms, Inc. of Winston, GA

The use of remanufactured ammunition is a huge asset to law enforcement agencies across the country that buy millions of rounds of reloaded ammunition a year. The remanufactures also provide a key supply point for civilians around the country with inexpensive ammunition that can be used for training, target practice and hunting.

You may not be aware of it, but there is a severe shortage of ammunition available for sale to the public across the country, causing problems for shooters, hunters, law enforcement agencies and reloaders everywhere.

By cutting off the resale of expended military cartridge casings to remanufacturers, the Department of Defense has put a stranglehold on the nation's ammunition supply.

Further, they have reduced the return to the government on expended brass by 80%. What was sold for remanufacturer at a fair return to the government of around a dollar a pound, will now cost the taxpayers untold sums of money as the cost of scrap brass is far below the price per pound for expended military ammunition (20cents/pound).

With this market gone, law enforcement will no longer be able to purchase inexpensive reloaded ammunition, and with the continuing combat status of military forces across the Middle East, original manufacturers of new ammunition are turning out everything they can make to the government, thus exacerbating the shortage of new ammunition in both the civilian and law enforcement market.

Lastly, in these harsh economic times, the loss of the recycled expended brass market from the DoD will have a negative impact on jobs in this country. The ammunition industry employs thousands of American citizens in the remanufacturing of sporting and military ammunition. One major re-supplier, Georgia Arms, has published information that they will have to quickly lay off half of their 60-person workforce, as they have had to cancel contracts with dozens of police agencies who had contracted Georgia Arms to supply them with remanufactured .223 ammunition.

The decision by the DoD will have far reaching implications such as loss of jobs in the United States of America; increased costs to the federal government with loss of revenue from the valuable brass casings; increased costs to local law enforcement agencies who will now have to purchase new ammunition, if supplies are available, versus the remanufactured ammunition for training; increased cost to civilians who wish to exercise their second amendment rights who will have to purchase new ammunition, when supplies are available. The impact on low income families wishing to enjoy the freedom to target shoot and/or hunt will be greater due to significantly higher cost of new ammunition versus the remanufactured ammunition.

I ask that you please look into this issue immediately. Hopefully the old policy of selling expended brass casings without being demilitarized can be put back in place.

Well, sounds like a pinch, but really it's just putting the burden on us to start making our own again. Granted sounds like a pain, but really just makes it not cheap. I'd advise to not solict congress about it and expend your energies to begin "local" manufacturing processes that can last "underground" - ie get prepared.

My husband has worked for Ga Arms for about 20 years...We have two kids in college..My husband is 50 years old, I am sitting here trying to come up with ways to reduce our spending and thinking about who would hire a 50 year old man! Please pray for our family! I guess we could sell off all his guns!!

I will be buying my first guns out here in Liberal California. Something is brewing and I want to be ready to defend my family. Especially as the Obama Youth movement is going to be coming to our doors in the very near future.

In California I'm told that I can buy a shot gun or rifle without a permit but need a permit if I buy a hand gun. Is that what it is in other states? The ammo for any twelve gauge is the same right? So if I stock up on ammo now while I wait for the back round check, I won't have an issue there? Also, does it really matter what store I get the guns from, I've been at a few and do not see much difference between price and selection. Thanks for the responses.

I found this blog through a link at Dinah Lord and I'm added it to my blogroll.

I have searched for 2 days for something official from Defense Logistics Agency, I cannot find anything anywhere. The emails from this DoD Surplus and Government Liquidations are coming from a private company. Can anyone produce something official from DLA?

In reply to Duke and breid,scrap price for yellow brass in Ohio is .50 a lb.Milspec .223 cases weigh between 94to96 grains,which comes to 174 cases per lb. .223 empties going for around $80 per thousand.'nough said

Looks to me that that the manufacturers of new ammo stand to benefit from this. Follow the money, and consider that the manufactures of new ammo played a part in creating this policy. Some what risk free, when those affected automatically blame the "liberals".

Evidently a storm or protests via phone calls and emails has affected this. In a post this afternoon on ARFCOM, Flamethrower had a chat with someone at Gov Liquidation who stated, "Effective immediately any expended mention 50 caliber(12.7mm) or smaller can be released without mutilation. This includes expended cartridges and links. All other expended munitions larger than 50 cal including grenade fuses and flare canisters etc must still be mutilated." This directive came from the Defense Logistics Agency.

Looking for proof? Go to http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=2272021&convertTo=USDand read the terms of the auction. This company is the vendor who gets all the government scrap and then sells it to us.

Looking for proof? Go to http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=2272021&convertTo=USDand read the terms of the auction. This company is the vendor who gets all the government scrap and then sells it to us.

Everyone I have contacted is out of ammo...thanks for the sample letter and congress contacts. Is there a list of gun websites we can work with or a central website? If not, I will set up a new website just to get this message out there quickly. Check out FreeRepublic.com and our 2 websites: RewardforObama'sBirthCertificate.com and The Obama Disaster

I have bid on Government auctions where brass is sold . It normally goes for $3.00 to $4.00 a pound. The price for scrap yellow brass right now is under .50 cents per pound. Why would the DOD make this dission to take less for there scrap?? This will cause a very big ammunition shortage for the people in Law enforcement not only the privite shooter.

This isn't news. I bought a lot of military surplus (.308 and .50 BMG brass & bullets) way back in September of 2007 and I picked it up at the seller's business and he's been in this business a long time, and he told me that the contracts had already been signed and we were looking at the last of the military surplus ammo components. It just takes a year or more for big government to grind through the process. He said the new contract called for Raytheon to use a fork lift to place pallets of surplus ammo into a furnace, seal it up and burn it up until all that's left is a slag made from melted lead, brass, and steel from the ammo cans and pallet straps, and ash from burned powder and wooden pallets. No components would be reused in the civilian market. Obama is bad news for gun owners, but this happened on Bush's watch. Republicans and Democrats are both for big government, globalism and socialism. Neither party is for us or our liberty. They talk a different talk, but they do the same things.

We contacted Government Liquidators regarding this issue and received an email from them today saying "the order has been recended and you will not have to demolish purchased brass". Please see what you can find out about this.

What better way to further stimulate the economy than to whip us all into an ammo-buying frenzy before the supplies dry up and the price exceeds our means? Gun sales in the past 6 months have been stellar, and the Obama administration is the key driver. Perhaps this is just round two... Yes, they may shred the brass, but we'll keep on buying at elevated prices until one or the other (supply or money) is gone!

2. If you don't shoot "popular" ammo (ie: 9mm, .45, .223/5.56), you really don't think it affects you? Brass is brass, it all comes from the same metals, if there is a "shortage" it affects us all. Manufacturers are going to make more of the more "popular" ammo (because more people buy it regularly), and will make less of the "occasional" ammo. Hence, the laws of supply and demand, more cost to "occasional" shooters as well to the "popular" kiddies.

3. The government is taking a huge cut in revenue. Over 80% loss.a) selling "used brass" requires no extra cost to process, other than collect, sort, ship.b) scrapping requires extra steps, is less valuable, and incurs more financial burden before it is even ready to sell.

So even if you don't like/shoot the "popular" ammo, or even if you are anti-gun, this is all just plain bad economics, PERIOD! AND IT'S YOUR GOVERNMENT WASTING VALUABLE RESOURCES!

I just received a phone call from the office of U.S. Senator Tester of Montana to inform me that at 5:15 (EST) today a letter cosigned by Senator Tester (D-MT) and Senator Baucus (D-MT) was faxed to the Department of Defense asking DoD to reverse its new policy requiring destruction of fired military cartridge brass. At 5:30, I am told, Tester's office received a fax back from DoD saying that the brass destruction policy IS reversed.

Others report to me that they are already seeing evidence of this on the Websites of entities that liquidate surplus DoD commodities.

Our thanks go out to Senator Tester and Senator Baucus, and their staff, for getting on this problem promptly and making the reversal happen

Staff for Tester and Baucus promise they will get me the documentation for this reversal tomorrow morning. I'll forward that when I get it.

It worked! DoD has rescinded it's multilation order! This is from Georgia Arms url:

Dear Loyal Customers,

Thanks to your voice, DOD has rescinded the order to mutilate all spent cases as of 4:30 pm on 3/17/09. We appreciate the time and effort that you expended, together we all made a difference. We will be posting the email we received from DOD as well as any additional information within the next 12-16 hours. Thanks so much and lets get to work!!! Georgia Arms

This all goes to understanding the detail of the DEMIL process. If you've ever been in the military or worked with DoD you know when you get new management they often have a different take on the regs.My guess is that this comes from a new interpretation of the Scrap/DEMIL Property Management for Contingency Operations dated Jan 2006 (www.acq.osd.mil/log/sci/MD/SCRAP_DEMIL_PROPERTY_MANAGEMENT_FOR_CONTINGENCY_OPERATIONS.pdf)

Now, I don't know HOW or WHY DoD would see fit to classify spent brass this way, but someone did. In any case, destruction is clearly not required. At most the buyer would have to have some other license.

Thanks to your voice, DOD has rescinded the order to mutilate all spentcases as of 4:30 pm on 3/17/09. We appreciate the time and effort that youexpended, together we all made a difference. We will be posting the email wereceived from DOD as well as any additional information within the next12-16 hours. Thanks so much and lets get to work!!! Georgia Arms

I just read on NRA News that the position has been REVERSED. They WILL start releasing the casings.

TOOK TWO DAYS TO REVERSE IT'S POSITION AFTER EXPOSURE ON "GUN TALK". It's funny how the Buggyman disappears when exposed to the light of day. Keep those Senator's and Congressmen's numbers handy, we'll be needing them again....

Went straight to govliquidation.com and it's all right there. Nearly four thousand pounds of spent 5mm, 7.62 and 9 mil about 85 miles from me as I sit here. Pasted below is what I lifted from the site

Peace

LOT (4, 043LBS) APPROXIMATE OF FIRED BRASS TO INLCUDE: (2, 908LBS) APPROX OF 5. 56; (50LBS) APPROX OF 7. 62 LINKS; (66LBS) APPROX OF 5. 56 LINKS; (368LBS) APPROX OF 7. 62; (651LBS) APPROX OF 9MM. PROPERTY IS STORED IN CARDBOARD BOXES AND ON (9) PALLETS WHICH ARE INCLUDED IN WEIGHT AND SALE. NO PREVIEW FOR THIS SALE. THIS IS A UNMANNED SITE, LOAD OUTS BY APPOINTMENT ONLY. BASE SCALES AVAILABLE FOR WEIGHING OF CONVEYANCE. ALL SCRAP UNDER THIS CONTRACT REQUIRES MUTILATION BY THE BUYER PRIOR TO REMOVAL IF ALLOWED BY THE INSTALLATION OR MUTILATION MUST BE WITNESSED AND CERTIFIED BY DOD SURPLUS PERSONNEL AT ANOTHER FACILITY. TITLE TO THE MATERIAL DOES NOT PASS TO THE BUYER UNTIL THE SCRAP HAS BEEN MUTILATED. BUYER AGREES TO ALLOW USG PERSONNEL TO WITNESS DESTRUCTION.

It appears that this is indeed going to be reversed. Someone Pulled the waivers on the spent brass due to sensitive military parts being sold without being mutilated. They are reclassifying the brass so it can be sold without being mutilated. (This happened due to the storm stirred up and folks contacting their .gov reps.)

This article has almost nothing to do with legitimate threats to our gun rights. It’s really about an ammunition manufacturer desperate to preserve its taxpayer subsidized profit margin on civilian rounds made from government brass. I would be more sympathetic if .223 ammo was substantially cheaper than comparable rounds requiring the manufacture of new casings. It’s not. Unlike The Shootist, I will not pimp a for-profit corporation gorging on tax payer subsidies.

Besides, the DOD’s decision may be a threat to the viability of Georgia Arms but for the author to elevate it to the level of a Constitutional threat is misleading without some evidence to back that claim up. And I mean evidence, not assumption. He provides DOD letters describing the new policy but where is the DOD letter or official statement explaining "why" the policy changed? There could be a hundred legitimate reasons but the author apparently failed to ask so we cannot consider whether any of them ring true. Then again, why should he? Liberal conspiracy is a tonic that makes fabricated truth easier to swallow. (Of course, others find conservative conspiracy more to their liking. Different taste; same result.)

A hardy congratulation is due to our loyal customers, our good friends, and our fellow shooting enthusiasts through out this great nation! Due to the diligent and overwhelming effort of many thousands of you, calling, writing, and emailing our elected officials, DOD Surplus, LLC, has rescinded its prior directive that ALL small arms spent casings be mutilated rather than recycled. This was a huge victory for common sense and we would like to thank each and every person who made an effort and played a role in correcting this mistake. We at Georgia Arms are proud of everyone who took the time and had the courage to stand up for our rights. We believe, that by your outpouring of anger and dismay, you not only extended our liberty and freedoms but also took a stand for economic common sense in a time when we know our government should be trying to reduce costs at all levels rather than throwing money away for some politically correct reason or the other. Again, our hat is off to everyone who helped and thanks to God as well. We will roll up our sleeves and go back to work; we have 223’s and 308’s to build! (Below is a copy of the email we received from DOD on 3/17/09 @ 4:30pm)GOD BLESS AMERICA !!!!!

(This was pertaining to an outstanding bid on a lot of brass that we won prior to the mutilation order. DOD sent us a bill for the brass after we had refused it due to the mutilation requirements. DOD on Monday sent us a bill for the brass and when we responded that we had already refused it due to the mutilation clause, we received this reply via email.)

I am sorry you hadn’t been informed –

Word came down that all shells 50 caliber or smaller CAN still be purchased without the mutilation requirement as long as kept in the US.

(As it was in limbo, I did not sent your EUC to Battle Creek until today, also why I have not contacted you for payment until today.)

This last anonymous poster really misses the point.It is stupid to shred perfectly good brass when someone can make use of it. If you have SUCH a problem with paying such and such a price, then by golly, GO BID ON A PALLET and SELL US your CHEAP reloads.Or see if you can pitch your cheap reloads back to Uncle Sam for practice ammo.Make sure you have liability insurance and are bondable.The fact is, brass supplies in this country have been tied up for sandbox activities ever since 9/11 and imports are seeing a bureaucratic pinch as well as competition from Mexican drug lords.If you think shredding this stuff is a better deal...keep up the good work and make sure you vote Obama again.

Thank God for our rights and to the New Media. 25 or 30 years ago, this outrage would have become law without a scant mention in the 'dinosaur' media.It's a good thing Al Gore invented the internet (ha ha). Power to the informed people!

Why did we let degenerate scum like obama into office. I wonder if any of the morons that voted for him believe in the 2nd ammendment. i wish that the ghetto scum obama would go back to the south side of chicago where he belongs.

before you get your skivvies in a bunch, you're just not thinking globally.whre is the brass going? CHINA! So the smart gun owner will open a brass cartridge/bullett factory in china, and export those shells/casings back to the US. thats how the global marketplace works today- you manufacture in china, ship via a liberian/panamanian ship, or UPS; then open your warehouse in Mexico, or canada. Have your corporate office offshore, in a tax haven. sell your stock via mail oders, or small lots. and you pocket the profits, to make camapgin contributions to the gun lobbyist/politician/party of your choice.see? now wasnt that easy? become a government contractor, suppliying ammunition to yout local sheriff and other global users of ammunition. dont waste that lead on our own politicians... oops- that came out wrong, but you know what i meant..

You need to add into the equation the time, cost and use of natural resources that it will cost to shred or destroy the large quantity of military brass. I thought this administration was into "green" and recycling. I guess that just applies when it meets their "agenda".

In addition to this, we used to import a lot of ammunition from Canada. The feds have quietly stopped all importation of ammunition from Canada. DON'T go to the range and waste your ammo. Keep it for now.

I cannnot believe We The People will allow...that is right "allow" anyone to think they are taking guns form US citizens. People better wake up and get off there butt's now!Start Here:http://www.petitiononline.com/limits09/

I have e-mailed my representatives and also have asked a civilian advocacy group that I belong to, "National Write Your Congressman" to research this issue and deliver their findings to their membership throughout the world

I hate that it has come to this as a vet myself that has offered my service to this country and I keep thinking and have never thought in my wildest dreams that this country might have to rise up against a tyrant goverment(which has rapidly become our own). We the people must take back our country before its to late, our goverment keeps taking and taking from us when do we say enough is enough. When are we the people that is used so much in our constitution unite us as a nation and demand the removal of a tyrant from office. First it will be our guns then once they have taken that from us only criminals and the ones that will turn this country into socialist country. The time for for WE THE PEOPLE has come and bring back the values this country was founded on!

DOD Surplus has a number of auctions for expended ammunition casings running right now that state that mutilation of the brass is not required. That indicates that their claim that all expended brass now has to be mutilated is questionable at best.

Any legislator participating in creating and voting for public law should be mandated to clearly articulate what the specific basis is for voting for such a law.

In this case (eliminate the recycling of ammunition casings) the bottom line appears to be (1) an immeasurable impact, if any, towards a murderer, an attempted murderer, or an individual hell-bent in perpetrating a criminal act with the use of a firearm. (2) increase taxpayers' cost in supporting US military units and law enforcement agencies with pratice and in-service ammunition (3) provide China with US subsidized, quality scrap metal(4) provide legislators the false pretense in supporting a public safety issue that has little, if any, substance in a positive, desired outcome.

It seems that this is going to be an administration similar to the HITLER administration where he took away the peoples rights in order to gain full control of the country and it constitutional rights. If we stop manufacturing the ammo and find somewhere else to by the brass from such as China then this government will have no choice but to withdrawal their order to destroy ammo brass. The problem with this government is they want full control of the people and without full control they won’t be able to manipulate everything and everyone for their political gain. This is not about the people it is about power, and they really don't care about the people.

I think we should all call our incumbent Representatives and Senators and explain to them the revolt that they are going to be dealing with concerning their seat in Congress. We need to get the whole bunch of them out of there and elect some people that will do the right thing. If they are going to allow this nonsense with our rights to own guns and ammo.

i have been saying all along that obama was going to do this! besides the suggestions in your blog, everyone can send comments directly to the white house for obama. just google white house email and you get there. i'm off to send my message to obama about this matter right now!

In response to: "Please, Please, Please amke this true so we can keep up the Obama bashing! But it's not. Policy started last year by the DOD, now recinded. Check it out."

The whole point is that they did it in the first place, Knucklehead! Remember that the brain dead, bleeding heart, tree hugging liberals (Obama’s party if you hadn’t noticed) had the majority in congress last year. They were testing the waters like someone said earlier. Have you been to a Wal-mart, or anywhere that sells ammo lately, not much ammo there, is there. Maybe it is just around my area but I have heard reports from friends all over the southwest and it is the same story, hard to find ammo. Now you may not like guns, hunting, target shooting, or protecting your family from thugs who really and truly do want to harm you, but we happen to cherish our 2nd Amendment RIGHT.

We law abiding citizens do not rob you, rape you, or kill you. It is the gang bangers and maniacs that liberal judges refuse to put to death or at least make them finish out their LIFE sentences, who do those things.

Gee, I wonder what China is going to do with our brass, (if they truly are buying it all up) maybe they'll make some replica Ming Vases…………… yeah right. Those commies will be loading it up for themselves!!! But maybe I am just a right wing conspiracy nut. Nothing like that has ever happened in our planets history, right?

In reponse to: "An administration similar to Hitler? Geez man, take off the tinfoil hat. You would be much better off to research EVERY email you receive to learn the truth."

That is exactly what Hitler did, he removed the peoples' ability to fight back by taking away basic rights. And you want to know the craziest thingk, the German people loved him for it. sound familiar?

Where does the military buy there ammo? If it is from the affected civilian companies, then why don't they get together and either triple the price for just military purchases or just stop selling to the military all together. I'm sure the Department of Defense would change it's tune.

I worked for the Federal Gov't for 30 years - They are testing the water - Do NOT trust a word they say. They are relentless & conniving people that have their only agenda in mind. They will continue to force their idea of society on the rest of society.

Apparently the challenges made a difference, based on the Snopes article. Someone needs to actually access the cost to the taxpayer should this be considered in the future. [reduced income from brass]+[cost to shred]+[unemployment for manufacturers/retailers]+[additional cost to gov't agencies which purchase reloads]=actual cost to taxpayers

Go figure! Our own Dept. of Defense selling us out to China! I just want to ask how everyone feels about our govenment now? Do you feel safe knowing that they are selling us out?

With having to purchase bullets that has been manufactured from overseas, shipped to and from, I feel that we cannot even be sure that they will actually work properly! Take for example a police officer protecting the public, he or she depends on his or her fire arm to actually work and if it does not then he or she may very well end up dead and so with our soldiers who protect our country! China, the one country that I actually worry about, the country who swore to wait things out and take over the U.S!Should we really trust another country to sell us fire arms and ammunition? I think not!Personally I think we should flood the White House with emails and hand written letters telling them to stop this completely!

They are doing all this gun control crap so that we are not armed when they come and take our country away from us. Enter the NAU, the Amero, and the NWO. It is called gradualism. According to the Bible, it WILL happen. We still need to resist because it may not be God's timing yet. Have a good day Carl. They are the fifth largest, which means there are four larger ones. It may be more expensive but not unavailable. And they cutting their own throat. What about resupplying the troops with ammo? Are they going to send the troops to war with no ammo? Is this in words only or are they really going to shred. It sounds suspect to me. These are specific ammo casings. What about other rounds: 22, 25, 32, 38, 40, 270, 30.06, .375, magnums, 12ga, 14ga, 20ga, and etc, etc. Just a thought. What do you think?

It is still a scenario we should worry about, nonetheless. Absolutely for sure.

Check out Utah's new Representative already making us proud. He truly is a conservative freedom fighter who came over from the dark side. He has introduced legislation preventing the administration and future administrations from pulling this kind of crap and ripping off the tax payer in the future.

We are being disarmed little by little. Remember Hitler ? He just went balls out and confiscated every weapon in that country. Then he started killing every person who was of non German descent and we all know how that ended. Just do this, start stock piling guns and ammo it's for recreation use only anyway. Remind your children who are serving in the military of the Holocaust and how easy it was for for Hitler and his military to kill without any resistance because they were order to surrender there weapons before the killing started. Don't forget that Obama practice the religion of Islam and those people we are at war with also practice Islam. A "wolf in sheep's clothing" a scary phase.We have the right to bear arms and our right will be violated if we cannot bear loaded arms. I believe when our fore fathers wrote that they had in mind the guns will be loaded, not empty.

be vigalent, but don't go overboard. we have a very conservitive supream court and know one will take your guns..now..yes, yes, we need to watch the goverment, because they are crooked.all of them!! but the whole hitler thing....really!take a look around we are still free, hell i'm going to the range all the time. maybe if people would stop freeking out (and fanning the paranoid fire)i would have less trouble buying ammo and powder!!!i can get it, it just takes longer because people are buying it up in bulk..( i called several manufactures about this )obama isn't hording it. parinoid people are buring cases of it in there yards for the revolution!!goofballs the lot of them,.pete

Most of these posts are a perfect example of ignorance in action. Why not actually do a little research before mouthing off on a subject you know nothing about? Why be so gullible? It's as though you all can't wait to make fools of yourselves.Enough posts have mentioned Snopes. Why don't you dingbats actually LOOK IT UP & LEARN SOMETHING?The reason you can't find ammo is that fools like are buying it all up convinced that the current administration is going to take your precious guns away. I think they have bigger fish to fry, thanks to what the previous administration left them.

For those who warn against militant talk on this forum, just posting to the forum greatly increases you chances of being investigated at some point down the road if they really want to go through the router logs to find you IP address. More importantly, our President associates with known terrorists and that wasn't enough to keep him out of office. Why should a little militant talk concern anyone? Learn to live and prosper in a Socialist country because that is what we live in whether we like it or not and there are too many voters willing to set aside their freedoms for freebies for the country to move to the right in our lifetimes.

To the poster pointing his finger at the Bush administration. The Dems controlled Congress for 2 years before King Obama took over and even poorly educated people must know that only Congress has the power to write law, most importantly tax and spend. The President can only sign a bill into law, veto it or leave it on his desk until it become law. What I want to know is when the scumbags in Congress responsible for spending us into the poor house are going to be impeached? Until we get rid of the likes of Barney Frank and Chris Dodd, just to name of the couple of worst, we have no chance of getting control of our lives back.

Many posters question the actual move behind DOD's rescinding the ban only five days after it was announced--they point to Snopes, which parrots the earlier announcements that it was a decision that had been made much earlier, then implemented.

Then supposedly it was determined the sale of unmutilated military brass DID NOT constitute a threat of ending up in anti-U.S. hands, and such brass could again be sold to the civilian market.

Perhaps. But I place those of you who swallowed the line that DOD can move so quickly in rescinding a decision right alongside the dozens of posters who claimed we were fomenting internet rumor.

Those posters said we were "crying wolf" because they went to the website of Government Liquidators, LLC and saw military brass shipments being offered for auction with the statements that these did not require mutilation--and this was over the weekend after the directive had been issued.

These posters used some pretty ugly terms to describe we who were trying to get the message out.

They didn't want to believe that the directive came down on Thursday, March 12--and maybe, just perhaps, those listings they were seeing on the website had not yet been updated.

Then, on Tuesday, March 17--FIVE days later--it was announced DOD had determinded such a ban was not necessary. I saw no apologies for the names and catcalling that occurred here when it was proved such action had occurred and was being rescinded.

And I offer that perhaps it was a decision that was made, then almost instantly rescinded as it was decided the sale of such brass did not constitute a threat--and perhaps that is true.

But I also offer I have never seen a goverment bureaucracy make a 180-degree turnaround on such a drastic order in such record time.

Maybe they did make a rational decision about it. But the hundreds of thousands of e-mails, letters, and phone calls to DOD and members of Congress by outraged members of the shooting fraternity certainly didn't hurt in speeding their decision to rescind the directive in what amounted to three working days.

For a full description, go to the origination point of this blog: www.theshootist.net and read the entire story, instead of just this posting.

Please be aware that DoD Surplus, LLC is not an agency of the federal government. They are a private company, who may or may not be reputable, and they buy 'surplus' materials from DoD. There are two programs that dispose of excess military inventory. (1.) The LESO program, a govt agency of DLA, supports law enforcement agencies who are registered with them. Those agencies can go to any DERMO (they are scattered across the U.S.)and get whatever military 'excess' they want, including brass casings. If 'excess' military inventory cannot be disposed of through the LESO/DERMO program, it is re-designated as 'Surplus.' That designation means that the excess materials cannot be in its original condition, i.e., brass casings, and has to be melted/shredded/etc., so that it can be sold as bulk used metal to individuals, companies, and even other countries. We are all familiar with military surplus stores, great place to shop for low cost hunting equipment and cammies.

(2.) As to disposing of military 'surplus.' Companies such as DoD Surplus, LLC, buy up that surplus and re-sale it to others. The material should never go to the civilian business/person unless it has been made unfit for use in its original form.If a business, such as DoD Surplus, LLC, has obtained 'surplus' in its original form through error, it is instructed to shred/mutilate it and to provide proof of same. However, many times those civilian companies will sell the unamended surplus to others, including gun dealers, without insuring that it has been mutilated or made unusable.Many of those companies, and possibly DoD Surplus, LLC, have been caught doing this and have been reprimanded or even barred from purchasing 'surplus' inventory in the future.Just wanted to provide some clarification.

Law enforcement will have to pay a higher price for ammo and they use the .223 for all the swat teams. Selling the brass to China only allows them the raw material they need to produce their ammo. Why are we(the Government)helping other countries just so we can hurt law enforcement and law abidding citizens. Criminals and gangs will just steal the ammo they need.

I'm actually *in* the Army, and I'm an airborne ranger infantry captain and a HUGE left wing liberal tree-hugger. I know this is just a blog, but this a prime example of yellow journalism. I'm not saying your hypothesis isn't true, but that's exactly what it is -- a hypothesis. Has any attempt been made to contact the DoD, or the reseller, for the reason behind this decision?

When you get that sort of proof, that's when I will get mad about this. Until then, I reserve judgement until all the facts are in.

Here is a wake-up. In 1936 when Hitler seized power he required every citizen to register thier guns. Once all the guns were regiserted his thugs went house to house removeing the peoples only tool to defend themselves against goverment agression. We have for some years we have had gun registory which is slowly extending to other areas of your loss of freedom to protect your self from government intrusion.

Trust me people, this regime that is now in power is NOT in your best interest !!! This regime is soley intent to control everything from the banks to auto production to which doctor you can see etc, etc, etc,.

You all wanted "CHANGE". Well your change is comming. If it is the "CHANGE" you wanted, I guess we will have to see. But, if history has anything to do with it I'm afraid its going to be a chilling four years.

This enactment is part of the change that should run "CHILLS" up your spine.

But hey, we only have a little under three years and 265 days left to deal with it....

Sorry, but I searched for brass and found about all you can use or want to reload.Try this link,http://www.govliquidation.com/auction/endecaSearch?Ntt=brass&Ntk=P_Lot_Title&Ntx=mode+matchall&N=0&Nty=1&Ns=Lot%20Number|0&words=brass&cmd=keyword If it is to long to copy, just go to www.govliquidation.com and search the word BRASS. I am an avid shooter and hunter that lives by the 2nd ammendment, I believe in freedom and the right to keep and bear arms, but Please dont start something that will give the non-believers any ammunition to use against us.

Unfortunately, few of the people that stumble across this posting ever bother to go to the original posting on the blog:

www.theshootist.net

IF they would take the trouble to do this, they would discover the very next posting announced that DOD issued their directive to mutilate all military brass on Thursday, March 12. On Tuesday, March 13, the directive, after a firestorm of criticism, was rescinded.

Yellow journalism, indeed.ABNRGR, I salute you for your service to our country. I served several decades ago as a 1st Lieutenant and platoon leader in the 1st of the 508th Airborne Infantry battalion in the 82nd...

But if you want validation and corroboration, go to the original posting on www.theshootist.net and read "Plowshares Beaten Back Into Bullets."

Oh, and Anonymous? You who throws military and governmental acronyms around in glee, thinking it gives you some air of expertise? The name of the company is Government Liquidators, LLC. Not DOD Liquidators, LLC.

I have lost all hope. Nothing short of a full scale revolution seems like it would change anything. Obama is so drunk on power and the people in congress don't give a damn what people who call them or write them think, that there is just nothing that can be done. We (the gun owners) have lost because too many have failed to use their guns for that the 2nd amendment was intended for.

It was intended to make sure that the government DID NOT get out of control and try to remove our rights the way they are right now and already have.

WHAT WOULD YOU DO IF YOU FOUND OUT THE LOCAL POLICE DEPARTMENTS AND NATIONAL GUARD AROUND THE COUNTRY WAS GOING DOOR TO DOOR INTRUDING AND TAKING CITIZEN'S GUNS - NO MATTER WHAT KIND - UNDER AN EXECUTITVE ORDER BY THE PRESIDENT? WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

Thank you for contacting me regarding current Department of Defense (DoD) policy on the sale of spent small arms cartridge cases. I appreciate having the benefits of your comments on this matter.

As you may know, the Defense Reutilization and Marketing Service (DRMS), a field activity of the Defense Logistics Agency (DLA), is responsible for the disposition of excess and surplus DoD property. The DRMS' primary goal is to ensure that DoD property is only released for public sale when doing so will not jeopardize national security.

Since its establishment, the DRMS has sought to further strengthen existing controls and mitigate future security concerns. In accordance with this effort, the DoD issued a policy that prohibits the sale of military unique items that are controlled by the Department of State through the United States Munitions List. Small arms cartridge cases were identified as a sensitive item on this list and as such, their sale was held pending a review. Upon completion of this review, the DLA determined that spent small arms cartridge cases may be released for sale and, at this time, the DRMS sales contractor is offering the sale of cases to qualified buyers. In accordance with previous requirements, buyers must be approved to purchase spent cases as outlined under the DoD Trade Security Controls.

I appreciate the opportunity to represent Texans in the United States Senate. Thank you for taking the time to contact me.

Geez, someone is sounding very paranoid. Please do everyone a favor and take the time to verify the rumors that circulate on the Internet and E-mail. I bet about 95% of these emotionally charged, alarming E-mails are false.

Read this statement issued from the NRA: http://www.nraila.org/News/Read/NewsReleases.aspx?ID=12244

Then, take a deep breath and relax already. Quit stirring the pot with information that isn't true just to further your agenda of slandering our president. Our goal in this country should be to work together - not spread false information intended to polarize people.

You'll have more credibility and respect if you speak the truth that is factual and verifiable - not someone's opinions and assumptions.

I know that this may sound un-American, but this action by DOD is literally un-Americian. What I am saying is that DOD purchases all of its ammunition from civilian companies. Since they contract with these companies they expect to keep receiving ammunition acccordingly. When the contract comes up for renewal, simply include a provision that spent ammunition be returned to the manufacturer. If DOD via DLA is unwilling to accept the terms of this clause, then do not sell any ammunition to them. The civilian market will not be able to purchase as much ammunition as DOD does, but let's put the squeeze back on them. They are the ones playing hardball.

See what happens when you lose control of your money? When that happens you lose control of everything.

By the way, I ran for Congress four times in 12 years (1994, 2002, 2004, 2006). I was on the ballot in Arizona's Congressional District 3, running against commie John Shadegg and some commie Democrat every time. The people had four opportunities to install a libertarian constitutionalist -- like Ron Paul -- but the people voted to be slaves every time. What can I say? You did this to yourselves.

Let's make it easy and efficient. Here is a better site, easy to find your senators.

http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

AND HERE ARE SOME SHORT SAMPLES TO SAY OR WRITE:

YOUR POTENTIAL LETTER

The Honorable Bill CassidyMember of Congress from Louisiana

Dear Congressman Cassidy:

I am informed that the Department of Defense has issued a directive that all expended military brass (fired cases) will now be shredded and sold for scrap material, rather than resold to the civilian market for remanufacture.

There is a severe shortage of ammunition across the country, causing problems for shooters, hunters, and re-loaders. The local law enforcement agencies will have to pay for their ammunition if they can no longer buy reloads. And who funds their budgets? We the taxpayers do - all of us - pro and con gun rights advocates.

What was sold for remanufacturer at a fair return to the government, will now cost the taxpayers untold sums of money.

Please look into this immediately.

Thank you for your time and efforts in this serious attack against the Second Amendment rights of the American citizenry.

Sincerely,

YOUR POTENTIAL PHONE CALL

Dear Congressman Cassidy:

I am informed that the Department of Defense has issued a directive that all expended military brass (fired cases) will now be shredded and sold for scrap material, rather than resold to the civilian market for remanufacture.

What was sold for remanufacturer at a fair return to the government, will now cost the taxpayers untold sums of money.

Yesterday morning, the Department of Defense informed NRA-ILA that fired military small arms cartridge cases are once again eligible for sale, following a temporary suspension in such sales instituted last week. NRA-ILA began discussions with DoD shortly after the suspension took effect, and we were assured from the beginning that efforts were underway to resolve the issue favorably.

Yesterday afternoon, DoD additionally confirmed the lifting of the suspension to pro-Second Amendment United States Senators Max Baucus (D-Mont.) and Jon Tester (D-Mont.), who sent the Defense Logistics Agency (DLA) a joint letter vigorously opposing the suspension, on the grounds that it had "an impact on small businesses who sell reloaded ammunition utilizing these fired casings, and upon individual gun owners who purchase spent military brass at considerable cost savings for their personal use."

Everyone who would have been impacted by the suspension, had it become permanent, owes thanks to Senator Baucus for his leadership on this issue, as well as to Sen. Tester and U.S. Rep. Denny Rehberg (R-Mont.), who also weighed in strongly on behalf of gun owners and the suppliers from whom they obtain ammunition reloaded with surplus military brass.

In announcing that the suspension has been lifted, DoD also made clear that no cartridge cases that, in the absence of the suspension, would have been sold for reloading purposes were destroyed while the suspension was in effect. Such cases were instead protected by DoD during the suspension, and are again eligible for sale. With ammunition currently in short supply, that was welcome news, to be sure.

DLA also put to rest various theories and rumors that were circulated on the internet, concerning the reason for the suspension. As DLA explained to Senators Baucus and Tester, and to NRA-ILA, DoD officials responsible for the demilitarization of military property temporarily halted the release of the cartridge cases last week, pending review of a policy change issued last year by the Office of the Secretary of Defense, which, in the interest of national security, halted the sale of items within a broad category of government property including, but not limited to, surplus small arms cartridge cases.

To make cartridge cases eligible for sale once again, DoD demilitarization officials verified that the cases could be appropriately placed in a category of government property allowing for their release for use within the United States, and then executed the recategorization. Whereas during the brief suspension, fired cartridge cases would have been releaseable only if the purchaser crushed or smelted them, now the cases may be sold as before, intact and reloadable.

DoD also assured NRA-ILA that companies previously authorized to purchase cartridge cases under Trade Security Controls need no further vetting at this time, and are eligible to resume purchasing cases under the policy adopted yesterday.

In sum, a problem that could have had serious repercussions for the remanufactured ammunition industry and the countless gun owners who support it, appears to have been resolved quickly.

For more information:

http://www.nraila.org/media/PDFs/DLA.MilitaryBrass.pdf

http://www.nraila.org/media/PDFs/Baucus_shellcasingsresponse.pdf

http://www.nraila.org/media/PDFs/Testershellcasingsres.pdf

Copyright 2009, National Rifle Association of America, Institute for Legislative Action.This may be reproduced. It may not be reproduced for commercial purposes.11250 Waples Mill Road, Fairfax, VA 22030 800-392-8683 Contact Us | Privacy & Security Policy

Brothers what they are doing..STEALING our country out from under us, wiping their butt's with our rights is some bad juju. The way I see it, to couter the efforts of the gungrabbers. Why not use plastic? We have plenty of it! Do you remember natec PCA? Polymer cased ammunition. I've used it it works just fine, don't know what happened to it though. I can't find it anymore anywhere. The technology isn't perfect, but with time, trial & error it could be. To those of you who say yeah right. I'll bet a bunch of you didn't ever think you would ever have a liberal black president and the San Francisco treat yanking your country and your rights out from under you either. We will use plastic & polymers as case material however this still does not solve the primer problem. To my knowledge no poly primers exsist in the world, but this is America! I know some of you guy's will nash your teeth at the sound of these words poly this and poly that! Blah, blah, blah! But if you like to shoot like I do, and I know you do, you will explore all of your options. So rise up smart guy's and show'em the middle finger and some state of the art reliable polymer ammuniton. We all know that would make their little panties crawl up into the unknown!

before most of you go on thinking this was Obama's idea..do your homework first folks..this has been in the works for yearsThis policy had a genesis at least back in June, 2008. The proof is in a document found at the Defense Logistics Agency web site using a simple search. http://www.dla.mil Search for surplus brass demil, or DOD 4000.25-M, DLMS

p.s. evrytime you get mad at the left remember am old dictator's saying...you divide and conquer

Please, before all of you start making these silly conspiracy theories, try to get your facts straight first. If you don't, us in the mainstream will just turn and ignore any points you are trying to make.

we don't have guns in our home but all of us believe in the right to have them and the ammunition..sendingthye spent carteiges to china i crazy.. i think enough is enough.. stop shipping our country overseas

ALL U.S. politicians are GOVERNMENT SANCTIONED CROOKS. They are rapidly creating a society of haves, (them) & have nots. (us) Thankfully, they haven't as yet taxed what I do with my toilet tissue, but they are certainly welcome to come & investigate. Can any one show me a destitute politician??

ALL U.S. politicians are GOVERNMENT SANCTIONED CROOKS. They are rapidly creating a society of haves, (them) & have nots. (us) Thankfully, they haven't as yet taxed what I do with my toilet tissue, but they are certainly welcome to come & investigate. Can any one show me a destitute politician??

March 15: Small-arms columnist Gordon Hutchinson raises an alarm in his blog "The Shootist." The item is headlined "DOD Ends Sale of Expended Military Brass to Remanufacturers. " He speculates that "the new administration" is making "an end-run around Congress" by trying to choke off ammunition supplies. "All they have to do is limit the amount of ammunition available to the civilian market, and when bullets dry up, guns will be useless." He urges readers to contact their House and Senate representatives.

March 17: Sens. Max Baucus and Jon Tester, both Montana Democrats, write a letter to the Defense Logistics Agency (the procurement arm of the Pentagon) asking that the new policy against brass sales be reversed. They say "the destruction of fired brass is unwarranted" and a burden on gun owners and small businesses that sell reloaded cartridges. "[R]eloading brass is [a] part of our outdoor heritage," they write.

March 17, 4:30 p.m.: Georgia Arms is notified that the policy has been reversed and their supply of spent cartridge casings has been restored...

Obviously the Obama administration is assaulting our 2nd Amendment. Since he, like any President, is swore to uphold and defend the Constitution, this may be opportunity to carry the fight to enemy. That is, focus the outrage into a call for Obama's impeachment. Surely there is more than ample documented proof that Obama is anti-2nd Amendment.

It's simple Obama can't be Impeached because The Government is Controlled by Demacrats. Because Omama is a Demacrats He is safe... For Now. But All in all I am glad that the DOD resumed selling the used ammo.

IT SEEMS WE ARE HEADING FOR A FULL REVOLUTION AT FULL SPEED. OMAMA IS SCARING THE HELL OUT OF THUS COUNTRY AND WE BOUT HAD ENOUGH. HE TALKS OF DOING ONE THING AND THEN DOING THE OPPOSIT. SOONER THAN LATER SOMEONE IS GOING TO SNAP AND MR. OBAMA WILL BE NO MORE. DOESN'T SEEM LIKE OUR OVERPAID CONGRESSMEN ARE CAPABLE OF DOING ANYTHING BUT GO WITH HIS FLOW.

Next time check the facts before you jump :-) Here is a good web site to use http://www.factcheck.org/2009/06/georgia-arms/. Also please note it was Bush NOT Obama whose policy you were referring to.

Why It Happened

What emerges from the DLA’s letters and the accounts of the NRA’s lobbyist and the Newsmax reporter is that the policy had originated with an order the previous year (during the Bush administration) from the Office of the Secretary of Defense to prohibit the sale of uniquely military items controlled by the Department of State through its munitions list. This order eventually worked its way down to the DLA’s Defense Reutilization and Marketing Service, the department responsible for selling military surplus items. DRMS found that small arms cartridge cases were listed as "sensitive" munitions items, according to the DLA letters, and thus sales of empty cases were halted.

Cox, the NRA’s lobbyist, said the DLA’s explanation "put to rest various theories and rumors that were circulated on the internet, concerning the reason for the suspension." He said the sales had been stopped "in the interest of national security." Newsmax’s reporter said the order was intended "to keep sensitive military hardware from making it into the hands of liquidators and, potentially, the enemy."

Ok for all you would be gun totten lawyers out there...let me help you. It was NOT a law that was signed by any President nor passed by any Congress or Senate. It WAS Defense Department DIRECTIVE!! This does NOT require the signature of the President. However, generally speaking Defense Department directives are written and signed based on the Executive Orders and direction of the Commander in Chief (which in this case was Bush...NOT Obama...NOT the Democrat Senate or Congress). So you law abiding gun owners that blog on this site and others who want to be taken seriously you should do your research, educate yourself and STOP ACTING LIKE SHEEP that believe everything they see and hear. And by the way, I have never had any problems getting all the ammo I want. And if any person on this site is having trouble let me know and I will find a seller near your home!!

my advice to all my fellow gun owners take all your ammo buy some more and hide it with all ur other ammo and ur guns and who ever is sent from the government to come and take fight em off because i don't trust obama or congress i trusted bush and like i always said obama will pull some crap against gun owners

Your going to tell me you life revolves around guns and ammunition? You back country hicks. I applaud him for trying to get as much cheap ammunition off the streets and out of the God forsaken back country Walmart stores. You people probably all let your kids run around packn' a nine. Why don't you find something intelligent to do with your time.

We all need to go back and read the constitution says! It is time for us to take back our rights and stand up and be Americans! The old saying never changes "If the government outlaws guns only outlaws will have them!!!

Affiliate Marketing On The Internet Affiliate Marketing is a performance based sales technique used by companies to expand their reach into the internet at low costs. This commission based program zsuch as email distribution in exchange for payment of a small commission when a sale results.

If I am not mistaken, those shell casings belong to the people that paid for them. As far as I know that's you and I. We should be able to stop this, we just need to bring it out into the light of day.

The second amendment says: "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."This is so simple it requires the full complement of the House and the Senate plus Al Gore and Joe Biden and the Supreme Court to mangle its meaning--but enough politicians can re-define anything. And they have.So, let us "unravel" their deceitful definitions. First, the Declaration of Independence makes it clear that each person has the right to defend him/herself and our posterity. No, this right is not granted by our Constitution. THIS IS A GOD-GRANTED RIGHT that is “guaranteed” by our Constitution.Regardless of your religion or spiritual beliefs, it takes only a small amount of logic to realize that Nature and Nature's God has provided every living thing (even the animals and plants) with defense mechanisms. Very plainly, every life on this planet is authorized by our Maker to use any means available to protect its own self.Therefore, you can forget the lame arguments that say the second amendment was for State Militias only, etc. etc. It is the right of the "PEOPLE" (the individual man and woman) to keep and bear arms. That part is settled. A two-bit lawyer with a vocabulary and a lexicon as long as a train can't cast doubt on what that means.Now for the last (and best) phrase: "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED." It does NOT say "shall not be prohibited." To have phased it using the word "prohibited" would weaken its meaning. "Infringed" is the only correct word to define EXACTLY what it means. The use of the word "infringed" gives a "depth" to the intended meaning that cannot be denied. To explain--the Congress could conceivably pass a law that would allow us to keep and bear arms as long as they are kept disassembled or plugged or made non-functional without violating the intent of the second amendment--if the word "prohibited" had been used.But when the founders stated that this right will not be "infringed," they CLEARLY meant that the people's right to keep and bear arms will not be hampered in any way. In other words, Congress shall not "mess" with this right to keep and bear arms. This means that Congress cannot pull shenanigans like making ammo scarce. They cannot pass laws that make training or licensing requirements unreasonable to the point where it infringes on our right to keep and bear our arms. They cannot do ANYTHING that would hamper my ability to protect myself, my family, my neighbors, my community OR MY COUNTRY by the use of my firearms.So, that makes it very plain. The meaning of the founders cannot be disputed. Forget trying to do so.Next, let's clarify another point: The second amendment also is very clear that not only the Legislative Branch, but the Executive and Judicial Branches as well are forbidden to do anything that would infringe upon this right. Further, not even the states nor the counties nor other local governments have the authority to infringe upon this right. And it certainly does not allow any infringement by any multi-national or global government.Read the 9th and 10th amendments. Nobody could successfully argue that any other government (State or otherwise) has the right to mess with our rights to keep and bear arms. When the second amendment says "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED" it MAKES NO EXECPTIONS. This right shall not be infringed in any way by ANY body. Can you find an exception anywhere? No, you can't.

There are also no exceptions made as to what KIND of "arms" I may keep and bear. Can you find any? Can you find where it says that I am limited as to "where" I may bear my arms? It is not there. I realize I am pushing the envelope a bit here, but I contend that I have permission (from the Constitution of the United States) to take a .50 calibre machine gun into the bank with me--or maybe even a fully automatic AK-47. Technically, it is not against the law to do so. And ANY law on the books of Congress or State Legislatures that prohibit my doing so is UNCONSTITUTIONAL on its face!! Now I would never contemplate doing such a thing—I probably would have a tough time trying to get someone to wait on me. Or the bank would have a dozen better armed guards to accompany me—so what’s the point. My only point is that it is NOT against any law to do so.Further, Congress' attempt to control weapons through the "Commerce Clause" is just as invalid as any of the other shenanigans they use. "Shall not be infringed" still means "shall not be infringed." Specifically, if Congress chooses to define "interstate commerce" in such a way that includes the regulation (infringement) of our ability to keep and bear arms as we see necessary--then their definition is unconstitutional.OUR KEEPING AND BEARING ARMS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED BY ANYBODY OR ANYTHING--no exceptions!! Any law on anybody's books that interferes with our ability to keep and bear arms to protect ourselves, our posterity or our government is against the intent of the Founding Fathers. Any such law MUST be amended immediately to restore our Constitution to the intent of the Founding Fathers.Now--the Founding Fathers, realizing they were not perfect and did not have the ability to see into the future, provided a means to correct our Constitution if need be. See Article V.Bottom line: Either comply with the Constitution or amend it properly. Any member of any branch of our government who fails to do so is in violation of his oath of office and should be removed immediately.Now I just picked out the Second Amendment to discuss. Actually, there are not too many parts of the Constitution that has not been abused. All these illegal and unconstitutional laws need to be cleaned up as well. For example, our tax system must be revised. I’m no economist or international trade expert, but at first glance, it seems that an “end-user” sales tax of some kind would work well.Now, I realize that this comment is getting extremely long--and maybe even boring to some. My fault; I should be able to express my thoughts more efficiently.But, I still have to make one more point on this subject.

This administration has an unlimited amount of our tax dollars to hire all the czars they want. They have at their disposal all of the high level strategists, planners, advertising gurus, propagandists or any other tool they may need to prepare for ANY contingency. They know when opposition (in the form of Tea Party Organizations or hundreds of other similar organizations and associations) "heats up" and "cools down." Even I can watch the internet traffic and the news and feel the tension growing or calming down from week to week.They know exactly what they need to do to calm the voters down and "win over" that wavering group that is constantly on the fence. They know how to manipulate public opinion and they have and are practicing it all the time.Even though this Congress and this administration have openly and unapologetically "run over" the United States citizen far more than any other gang in the history of our Nation, they STILL maintain a 44% approval rating. And they know what they need to do to pull that back up to over 50% anytime they need it.

Can't get it all in even two comment boxes...will have to add a third.

They know that the Democrats will lose the majority in both the Senate and the House in November if they allow these Tea Party and other organizations to continue as they are now. Have you noticed, though, that (with the exception of a few people "jumping ship" to avoid prison time) hardly ANY of the Democrats are shaking in their boots--concerned about the November results? Does that concern you? Do they know something that "we the people" don't know? Do you really think they will just jump into these November elections knowing they will lose and therefore end their political careers--their political careers that mean much more to them than their oath of office, their dedication to their constituents, their pride and honor? Please pardon my language, but HELL NO--they don't intend to lose and they have more money and more crooked ways to defeat new challengers than we can dream of. Did you notice how quietly and smoothly A.C.O.R.N. just faded into the shadows without any fuss and feathers? Do you really think A.C.O.R.N. is really gone? Again--HELL NO! They are still there, undercover, operating under new names and still doing the same things they have always done--only now they are getting better at it. They are practicing WINNING ELECTIONS--by hook or crook. The Democrats are not expecting to lose the November elections; they know how to win.In the first place we STILL have roughly 50% of the voters in this country who are STILL dumb enough to vote for the Democrats and this administration. That scares me worse than the President's Nuclear Weapons Plan--worse than Nancy Pelosi's gall to "deem" a vote that was purely against any sense of ethics or morality--worse than Harry Reid's eagerness to use our tax money to buy votes that are un-mistakenly against the will of the people. Just how brazen can they get? The only thing I can compare such acts with is—it’s like a robber who would walk into a jewelry store in plain daylight and start filling his pockets with diamonds and gold and announcing in front of the owners and customers "Hey folks, I'm stealing this stuff and there ain't nothing you can do about it." It scares me that a President can just refuse to even produce a birth certificate--or any other records that would legitimize his eligibility.IT IS CRAZY!! IT IS ABSOLUTELY "GOVERNMENT GONE WILD."But, I have to get on with making my main point.It is (or at least should be) totally clear to EVERY voter in this Nation that they, collectively, don't give a hoot about what the voters want.Letters, petitions, pink slips, phone calls, tea party demonstrations, begging, pleading, demanding has done NOTHING to deter their agenda. WE HAVE AN OLIGARCY IN WASHINGTON RIGHT NOW!!Okay--next--how many elections have been "contested" in the last 10 years? Well, I don't know either--but there have been a bunch. How long did it take to finally pick a winner in some cases? A long time. Do you think there are gonna be fewer or more disputed elections this November? Who (which party) has the money to hire all the liberal lawyers in the country to fight the battles to decide these disputed elections? It is NOT the Republicans. Meanwhile, which party has the money (and the media) to bring an endless amount of unjust accusations down on their opponents’ heads? How convincing will they be to that 44 to 53% of the voters who are too damned dumb to realize that they don't want a Muslim for a President?

Well, I can't even get it all on 3 comment blocks. Sorry, but I have this thing written--so I'm gonna post it. Like it or not.

Here is my prediction: If we still have enough of a democratic republic still standing come November to even conduct an election, it will be so screwed up until nobody will know the results. Are we talking about chaos here? Yes, there will be chaos--no doubt about it. The only question in my mind is: How bad will the chaos be and can we recover from it in a civil way? If we can't recover from the chaos, can you imagine a better opportunity for the administration to impose some degree of martial law? Would our current regime be eager to impose martial law if he doesn't get his narcissistic way? There's no doubt in my mind!! So where do we go from there. By then it is too late for tea parties and internet organization. You betcha!! Chaos is chaos. If you have ever seen it, you know what I mean. If not then spend a few minutes trying to imagine it. In a situation like that--there is no way to predict what may happen.Now, so far, all I have done is paint the sad side of all this. I used to have an old First Sergeant who had a saying or two that I'll never forget. One of my favorites was: "Don't come to me with problems and complaints. Bring me a SOLUTION to the problem."I have a "suggested" solution. It probably will not be the BEST solution, but it is the only feasible one I can come up with. If you have a better one, dear reader, then I welcome it. Or if you can suggest ways to make this a "better" way--then let's hear it.First, I am assuming that we are still looking for a way to regain our government without violence. Frankly, at this point, I have a tough time even hoping for such a miracle--but we can try.Without violence, this Nation could just go on a strike. I don't know how to find the leaders necessary to plan and organize such a "work walkout"--but I am convinced that it could be successful. We HAVE to find a way to MAKE this administration and this Congress "care" what we the people want.

I suppose it would require at least a couple or three weeks to come up with a plan and disseminate it to all 50 states--using the hundreds of internet organizations that already exists. Then, once a plan was disseminated, we'd have to give the government a few days to make up their mind whether they would like to deal with us and negotiate or bear the brunt of the shutdown. I really don't know how long a strike like this would have to last to make our point. Maybe only 3 or 4 days... but, we should be prepared for a week or two--even more. I don't know.Now, of course, there would be exceptions. We'd have to exclude people who provide life-saving services, limited fuel and grocery distribution, etc.The next thing that MUST be considered is the hardships that would be imposed on many of the striking workers. With the economic situation as bad as it is right now, how long can these people go without earning their wages? And what would we do to help them recover after making such a sacrifice? YES, THIS WOULD BE A TOUGH THING TO DO--NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.

I do have one comment (I believe a very important comment) to make about that. WE ARE (AND OUR PEOPLE ARE) IN BETTER SHAPE TO DO THIS RIGHT NOW THAN WE WILL EVER BE AGAIN -- IF WE DON'T DO IT NOW.With that, I'll quit....and wait to see if there are ANY responses.You can contact me at:texjim@embarqmail.com903-876-3000P.O. Box 1236Frankston, Texas 75763No, I am not concerned that I am exposing myself to whatever or whoever. I am an old 71 year old retired Marine with over 30 years service to my country plus 11 years of law enforcement experience. I really don't have much more to give, but I'm willing to give the rest of what I have. Just think about it, if we don't regain control of OUR country, and do it NOW then I have already wasted all the effort I have invested in this "experiment." Yep, remember our Founding Fathers called the founding of our Nation an "experiment." It has worked very well for the first 230+ years. I can't stand the thought of losing it to a handful of immoral, corrupt, self-serving politicians who have already made themselves rich at our expense. And one other thing--I hold myself totally responsible for the failure. I (we) had things so good for so long 'til we forgot to insist that our kids and our neighbors' kids learned the importance of pride, dignity, morality in their daily lives. We should have taught them that you can't just set this type of government on auto pilot. You can't just elect people to represent you and then give them free rein to make all your decisions. As Ronald Reagan said, "Trust, but verify."

I'm ready folks. If you want to pull this country back up on its feet, it will take some doing. I'll do everything I can, but it will take a lot of people pulling together. Let's roll.

Not good business sense. This reminds me, of long ago. Lot's of kids got together to play backyard baseball, but the only one who had a bat, ball and glove, was the neighborhood bully. He wanted only to bat and pitch, he didn't want time in the outfield. In essence, he wanted to change the rules. We didn't want to play, by his rules, so he took the only bat, ball and glove home. We did the only natural thing. We found and old broom handle, some bottle caps and played bottle cap baseball.

Think about this. The thugs win! Guns and ammo will always be available to the thugs. They have the money and connections to get them. Cost is not a deterrent.But when cost skyrockets due to supply & demand for citizens, police and either they can't buy it or you cant afford the taxes to provide it to the law enforcement agencies, who will you call at 3 AM when you are assaulted in your own home and out of ammo & the cops have none either? You will become a conservative real quickly...It seem that the liberals just live in a dream world.

Don't vote all of the Liberals, out of office, as we could go in the opposite direction. That's a can of worms that we could do without. Think long and hard, about that, one extreme to the other extreme. That would be an irrational behavior. Not what we want.

To David:The idea is to vote ALL the career polititians out of office. Then elect the type of people into office that will hold to the constitution...in my book that happens to be a long way in the opposite direction from where we are. Not necesarily a bad thing. Althogh there will always be groups on the extreme fringes...as long as we hold to the constitution the fringes will have no power.