Not enjoying the Bran storyline at all, and hoping it doesn't continue much further. It's too weird.

This is a fantasy story. Expect that aspect of it to only grow in importance as the show moves on. This season should have made it clear that we're mostly done with the major intrigue in King's Landing, with almost nobody of importance remaining there.

Not enjoying the Bran storyline at all, and hoping it doesn't continue much further. It's too weird.

Spoiler for Hiden:

they left too much open....is The Hound really dead? Is Daddy Lannister? The Mountain seems to be the only one they made somewhat clear will still be around after transfusion.

Regarding what's in the spoiler tags, I think all of that is intentional to hook people into the start of the next season. Typical season finale cliffhanger stuff.

It's interesting the reactions the Bran scenes are getting from some viewers. I'm not sure what specifically about those scenes pushed viewers too far. We've seen what appear to be standard fare zombies, super natural snow dudes with blue eyes that are unkillable without special weapons, giants, mf'ng dragons, knights being rezzed and brought back to life multiple times, & dark sorcerery resulting in a disturbing shadow assassin birth scene. All that didn't tip viewers too far. But the Bran scenes did.

While the Hound's current status is clearly supposed to be a mystery, Tywin's is not. When Varys was about to return to the Red Keep and heard the bells, he knew at once what they meant: The death of a Hand. That's why he turned back. He didn't fully realize the ramifications of what Tyrion had done until that point. The bells pretty much just ring when the King dies, when the Hand dies, or when there's a funeral or wedding. Either someone had killed Tommen, or someone killed Tywin.

Not enjoying the Bran storyline at all, and hoping it doesn't continue much further. It's too weird.

Spoiler for Hiden:

they left too much open....is The Hound really dead? Is Daddy Lannister? The Mountain seems to be the only one they made somewhat clear will still be around after transfusion.

Regarding what's in the spoiler tags, I think all of that is intentional to hook people into the start of the next season. Typical season finale cliffhanger stuff.

It's interesting the reactions the Bran scenes are getting from some viewers. I'm not sure what specifically about those scenes pushed viewers too far. We've seen what appear to be standard fare zombies, super natural snow dudes with blue eyes that are unkillable without special weapons, giants, mf'ng dragons, knights being rezzed and brought back to life multiple times, & dark sorcerery resulting in a disturbing shadow assassin birth scene. All that didn't tip viewers too far. But the Bran scenes did.

I think it's just too much. To me, the show was about more "realistic" things than fantasy. I've already bought in to the other fantasy aspects mentioned, but only as a side-note to the main stories.

Spoiler for Hiden:

The above probably makes no sense, but zombie-skeletons and little kids throwing fireballs is way out there.

I think the view that the skeletons and fireballs are too much is a bit odd as well. We had the mages, we had a long talk about how magic might come back with the dragons, the whole mage tower thingy with dany. Anyone who didn't think this was high fantasy with magic and dragons was fooling themselves just because it wasn't shown all the time. It was quite obvious from the first few episodes that it was moving to more and more of the supernatural and fantasy.

It just seems like such an odd disconnect that it took 4 seasons of fire breathing dragons, illusionists, shape changers, killer shadows, zombies, giant wolves, giants, people not dying from being cleaved in two,etc. The list is HUGE, and people who don't like fantasy probably should have stopped watching by the end of season 2 at the latest.

It's moved too far to the magic side now, is what i'm trying to say. What's next, Harry Potter (or like Cartman once said: "Harry Pussy-Potter") appears? I want swords and deep intrigue, with an occasional dragon or giant thrown in. Even the dire wolves are half-believable since beasties tended to be larger the further back in time you go.

And what's kinda odd to me is why some people are upset that other people feel this way

FWIW, even from the very beginning of the show they talked about magic and monsters being gone from most of the world but still present beyond the wall. That's one of the reasons there's a wall in the first place! Outside of the wall, with just a few instances, there hasn't really been much magic/fantasy (the notable exceptions being the dragons, Melissandre, and the warlock). And notice that all three of those things either come from or take place in the continent across the sea from Westeros.

I was turned onto this book series by you all, at Gone Gold, and then here and at OO. I am grateful that I was turned onto this series as it has become my favorite book series of all time and now one of my favorite TV shows of all time. I hadn't even ready fantasy before reading this...

The idea of not liking it due to magic is too much for me as Dragons have been present for a while now. The story is fantastic, regardless of the dragons/magic/too much nudity (the only thing I dislike about the show)... Martin exceeded Tolkien with this series and the hbo version has been pretty amazingly done so far in my opinion, it way exceeded what I would have anticipated after reading such an intricate series of books. There are critiques to be made, but the presence of magic/supernatural are not one of them.

I think the books do a better job of preparing the reader for encounters with the supernatural than the show has. In the book, the first interactions Jon has with the veterans of the Night's Watch are about that very subject: supernatural stuff beyond the wall. The whole "Winter is coming" can be translated to "Your bedtime horror stories about freaky magic sh*t beyond the wall are about to come true". The denial and rejection of that message/warning is kind of thematic...maybe for some of the viewers of the show too.

I just don't think the show has enough time to devote to giving all the clues and reveals from the books, although they do a really good job of showing the main points. I also think that some % of the millions of viewers are watching solely for the drama of the relationship and political soap opera of the show, and have been looking past some of the previous fantasy elements. Seeing what looks like a little elf hurling fireballs, and skeletons popping out of the ground, and then some kind of tree root magician was probably too much for them to look past. Bran's arc is almost 100% fantasy now, so that % of viewers can't ignore it anymore. It's right in their face. I'm not sure how many of those viewers understood what the book series was all about before they got hooked on the show.

Personally, I really like the Bran arc because it is delving head first into the supernatural. I've felt like the other character story arcs on the show have been tap dancing around it carefully, but never committing.

Have you guys forgotten that the very first scene in this show, the first 7+ minutes of Game of Thrones ever shown on TV, was entirely about a White Walker attack? GoT has made it abundantly clear from the absolute beginning that there's an undead threat north of the Wall. It's not like the show slowly moved into this territory. It established this theme right away, and only then did it move into the politics. Even that took a couple of episodes to get going. Some of you might even recall the discussions among book readers at the time had them worried that the opening would scare away potential viewers who would enjoy the politics.

Clearly everyone has their own perspective on both the books and the show. For me, Bran was one of my favorite characters from day one of the book, and it drove me crazy in the books how slow his progression was in terms of the magic//mystical side. It seemed to me very clearly he was being set up as one of the few primary lead characters to have an affinity to magic, but GRRM seemed reluctant to take it too far. I'm glad the TV show is actually advancing and imagining the magical elements much more vividly than what's in the books. I don't think it has to take anything away from all the other intrigue and non-fantasy elements, to me they coincide wonderfully.

I had one co-worker a while back who would re-read the books again and again - but only the points of view that he liked (Jon and Tyrion and Arya). So I can see for people like that, you can almost completely excise the fantasy elements out. But as others have said, they are all clearly a part of the series.

Side note:

Spoiler for Hiden:

I was disappointed about the lack of zombie Caitlyn, but maybe she was too busy trying to kill Jack Bauer to make a cameo for this season lol. If they completely dump the character I think a lot of fans are going to be bummed.

Have you guys forgotten that the very first scene in this show, the first 7+ minutes of Game of Thrones ever shown on TV, was entirely about a White Walker attack? GoT has made it abundantly clear from the absolute beginning that there's an undead threat north of the Wall. It's not like the show slowly moved into this territory. It established this theme right away, and only then did it move into the politics. Even that took a couple of episodes to get going. Some of you might even recall the discussions among book readers at the time had them worried that the opening would scare away potential viewers who would enjoy the politics.

You're right, I forgot that the show opens with a white walker invasion, shown in more detail than the book. Also, we got to see the worg reveal pretty early too. Being able to possess animals is definitely well beyond typical medieval themed stories. The rebirth of Daenerys as the dragon mother, stepping out of the flames unscathed with her hatched baby dragons was also a big indication of where things were headed. She survived being engulfed in flames without burning.

If there’s one thing we’ve all thought as we watched a brutal swordfight or X-rated act of incest on HBO's drama “Game of Thrones,” it’s definitely “I wish I had an age-appropriate way to share this story with my young kid/niece/nephew/godchild.” Now, finally, winter is coming for the kids as well. This fall, Tor is rereleasing George R.R. Martin’s 1980 children’s story The Ice Dragon, which is set in the same A Song of Ice and Fire world as "Game of Thrones."

The Ice Dragon was originally published as part of a 1980 anthology, Dragons of Light. In 2007, the story was released as a book, but it is no longer in print -- meaning for several years now, children have had no way to experience "Game of Thrones" mania for themselves, short of scouring used book stores and eBay for a used copy. The new edition, re-imagined with delicate, dreamy illustrations by Spanish artist Luis Royo, hits bookstores Oct. 21.

I guess a major divergence from the books is shaping up, looks like a great choice to me!

Spoiler for Hiden:

I always felt like Sansa was a horribly dull character in the book, leading to a rather dull plotline in the show, so I'm really looking forward to seeing how she handles this major plot diversion. I would love to see Ramsay fall for her or something odd like she ends up being able to control him, would just like to see her assert some power over situation for once.

I guess a major divergence from the books is shaping up, looks like a great choice to me!

Spoiler for Hiden:

I always felt like Sansa was a horribly dull character in the book, leading to a rather dull plotline in the show, so I'm really looking forward to seeing how she handles this major plot diversion. I would love to see Ramsay fall for her or something odd like she ends up being able to control him, would just like to see her assert some power over situation for once.

Oh yeah, and wtf was that Frankensein thing?

Response to the final part of your spoiler: (warning: book spoilers!)

Spoiler for Hiden:

That's Gregor Clegane, just like in the books. We haven't seen the last of him yet.

Seems there is some internet outrage over this. Rape is horrible, but so are many things that happen in real life and TV shows, why should it not be covered? Plus, they didn't show it.

I am not sure it is rape though, at least not by standards then. An arranged marriage in medieval times would be similar and was probably very normal. It was the wife's job to provide children and from my very limited understanding, servants would often be around. Of course it was a little different in this case.

People are always going to find things to get outraged about, just surprised people who like the TV show are somehow think this crossed the line compared to all the other horrible things that have happened.

Seems there is some internet outrage over this. Rape is horrible, but so are many things that happen in real life and TV shows, why should it not be covered? Plus, they didn't show it.

I am not sure it is rape though, at least not by today's standards. An arranged marriage in medieval times would be similar and was probably very normal. It was the wife's job to provide children and from my very limited understanding, servants would often be around. Of course it was a little different in this case.

People are always going to find things to get outraged about, just surprised people who like the TV show are somehow think this crossed the line compared to all the other horrible things that have happened.

The problem is the show is excessively rapey and continues to use it as a goto with female characters, this is exacerbated where this is not the case so much in the books, the Cersei/Jamie chapel scene came off as consensual in the books as opposed to rape in the show, and the Sansa specific incident does not occur in the books at all. The Sansa/Ramsay wedding is a TV show fabrication.A key difference from the books, is that in the books you grew to feel no one was safe, whereas the show now feels like it is just reveling in doing bad things to the main characters, these two things are not the same.

I understand your point, but I disagree with a couple of things. I thought the Cersi/Jamie thing looked very consensual. I also get the feeling from the show no one is safe. My first thought Subday night was someone was going to die soon between the various plots. Too much stuff is building up. Maybe I am the exception in those 2 things?

The prior things Ramsey had done in the show have been FAR worse to Theon. I can't believe someone could continue watching after its very much implied that Theon had his penis cut off, but then a rape of a woman was over the line. Every time they show Theon I still wince.

I understand your point, but I disagree with a couple of things. I thought the Cersi/Jamie thing looked very consensual. I also get the feeling from the show no one is safe. My first thought Subday night was someone was going to die soon between the various plots. Too much stuff is building up. Maybe I am the exception in those 2 things?

The prior things Ramsey had done in the show have been FAR worse to Theon. I can't believe someone could continue watching after its very much implied that Theon had his penis cut off, but then a rape of a woman was over the line. Every time they show Theon I still wince.

Well the "reveling in doing bad things to main chracters" implies "no one is safe" but not vice versa. The show is becoming misery porn in a way the books were not.

And with your Theon point, look at it this way, imagine every time a male character got into danger they were castrated or nearly castrated, that's sort of what's started going on with the show with rape. If next week Jon Snow got violently castrated, then Tyrion a few weeks later you'd probably start to think, hey WTF?

And with your Theon point, look at it this way, imagine every time a male character got into danger they were castrated or nearly castrated, that's sort of what's started going on with the show with rape. If next week Jon Snow got violently castrated, then Tyrion a few weeks later you'd probably start to think, hey WTF?

Are you implying that rape is a common occurrence in this show? Can you cite examples? The Cersei and Jaime scene was consensual in the script, but came out wrong on the screen. It was never meant to depict rape, and the actors themselves got confused at the reaction. The only outright rapes I can remember right now happened during the Dothraki sacking of a village in season 1, and that was turned into a plot point about women in general (and Daenerys in particular) standing up for their gender.

Rape is very common in the books, like in the real medieval ages during wartime, even if you don't see it "on-screen". It's been mostly glossed over in the show.

Edit: Remembered the attempted mass rape of Sansa during the King's Landing riots of season 2, though that was interrupted before it could start.

The only reason why the books weren't misery porn was that you got some distance by reading of it, and when it got so bad, the book could just characters to someone having a bad day in a different, but often less harrowing way (for a time).

Sadly, the show has become bad fan fiction. It's George R. R. Martin's fault for not getting the books out in a timely manner, but the quality of the story has collapsed since the writers began broadly making stuff up as they went.

Sadly, the show has become bad fan fiction. It's George R. R. Martin's fault for not getting the books out in a timely manner, but the quality of the story has collapsed since the writers began broadly making stuff up as they went.

You're putting the cart before the horse. GRRM described on his blog this week why the changes have become bigger in this season, and it's not because the writers don't know where things are heading. GRRM has told them everything they need to know about upcoming events. This is a result of the infamous butterfly effect, where choices made earlier in the adaption mean that certain plot points at this stage in the story need to be adjusted to make sense. It's also a result of them keeping their primary actors busy. Them not knowing the story is both false and not a factor.

Sadly, the show has become bad fan fiction. It's George R. R. Martin's fault for not getting the books out in a timely manner, but the quality of the story has collapsed since the writers began broadly making stuff up as they went.

Are people not enjoying the show then? If so is it because it doesn't follow the books closely enough, the violence, or do they just don't think it is very good?