I hope they get rid of the whole "Trophy"
nonsense.

There it is. Now all we need is a Hitler reference and we're gold.---Surely there's no problem with them putting me in Brawl, right? It's ****ing satire, damnit. In NGE, Doritos are perishable goods

#62Meifumado9Posted 2/16/2013 7:31:56 PM

So can Zelda canonically do any of the stuff she does in Smash.

#63MeanMotorScootePosted 2/16/2013 7:32:25 PM

SpunkySix posted...

So because there are road blocks, suddenly the problems are unsolvable? Nothing personal, but I really hate that line of thinking. So far, every single problem you've brought up is solvable with creativity.

I mentioned an extremely basic plot point, for example, and you told me that suddenly avoiding series favoritism would be too hard. That is not true. Add in scientists from other series working with E. Gadd, make other plot points balance out, problem solved. That's how the creative process works. You have a problem, you attempt to solve it, you look at your progress and then you refine your solution. Almost nothing works out perfectly on the first attempt, and that's true for literally anything.

Difficult =/= impossible =/= not worth it

As for third parties, all that would be needed is the main characters, maybe one or two side ones or villains and a stage with some music. For it to work with their canon, literally a single throw away line would be all that was needed in a future game. As simple as Sonic mentioning wanting to go solo after being on such a big team, or telling Tails how nice it is to be home.

No, Snake would not be canonically beating Olimar with a fan. First of all, he'd be working WITH him. Secondly, he'd maybe have a more serious team with him, and if he didn't, then remember... this takes place in a simulation. The scientists programmed in items from all over the universe. Maybe third parties come from a different one. Even if they don't, the point is that the Smashulation would explain why the SSB mechanics apply. I wouldn't expect Snake beating goombas with a fan to be a major plot point in the next MGS. That's not the point of this... besides the fact that small details like that could be worked around and not in cutscenes anyhow. The point is to justify SSB mechanics and all of the characters exploring each other's worlds. This could be tastefully done if the writers are any sort of worth their paycheck.

And really, you don't find something deliciously ironic about a crossover video game for video game heroes taking place inside of a video game? I think that would be kind of a clever justification... verging on fourth wall leaning even, without being out of place.

I never said it was impossible, I just said that chances are hard core fans would pick it apart and maybe even attack it. I wouldn't mind if they decided to do what you said, but chances are more hard core fans who follow up on their favorite franchises will attack the story if they see even 1 thing off according to the continuity of what they follow.

Again, I'm all for it, but no matter what I doubt the story will be praised by a majority of fans considering how seriously they take their franchises. Every time there's a crossover game, this happens. No matter how good the story is (or not) hard core fans of which ever characters appearing WILL attack it just because they got even the smallest detail incorrect.

So once more, I wouldn't mind if they decided to make it canon and get rid of the whole trophy thing, it would be a very bold move and can open up potential for great cut scenes and character interaction that's authentic. All I'm saying is no matter how good you make it, there will be conflict among fans of the franchises who constantly debate and nitpick any little thing.

#64Iggy_KoopaPosted 2/16/2013 8:15:39 PM

I believe he was talking to me... But I suppose you mentioning the question of which Zelda/Ganondorf/Link and the like would encompass you into it as well.

SpunkySix posted...

So because there are road blocks, suddenly the problems are unsolvable? Nothing personal, but I really hate that line of thinking. So far, every single problem you've brought up is solvable with creativity.

I mentioned an extremely basic plot point, for example, and you told me that suddenly avoiding series favoritism would be too hard. That is not true. Add in scientists from other series working with E. Gadd, make other plot points balance out, problem solved. That's how the creative process works. You have a problem, you attempt to solve it, you look at your progress and then you refine your solution. Almost nothing works out perfectly on the first attempt, and that's true for literally anything.

Difficult =/= impossible =/= not worth it

As for third parties, all that would be needed is the main characters, maybe one or two side ones or villains and a stage with some music. For it to work with their canon, literally a single throw away line would be all that was needed in a future game. As simple as Sonic mentioning wanting to go solo after being on such a big team, or telling Tails how nice it is to be home.

No, Snake would not be canonically beating Olimar with a fan. First of all, he'd be working WITH him. Secondly, he'd maybe have a more serious team with him, and if he didn't, then remember... this takes place in a simulation. The scientists programmed in items from all over the universe. Maybe third parties come from a different one. Even if they don't, the point is that the Smashulation would explain why the SSB mechanics apply. I wouldn't expect Snake beating goombas with a fan to be a major plot point in the next MGS. That's not the point of this... besides the fact that small details like that could be worked around and not in cutscenes anyhow. The point is to justify SSB mechanics and all of the characters exploring each other's worlds. This could be tastefully done if the writers are any sort of worth their paycheck.

And really, you don't find something deliciously ironic about a crossover video game for video game heroes taking place inside of a video game? I think that would be kind of a clever justification... verging on fourth wall leaning even, without being out of place.

Then there comes the question of where did Dr. Andonuts come from and why is he working with Mr. Sanderson? Can it be done? Absolutely, but answering all of these questions, explaining all of these characters motivations, giving every series and everyone fair and just representation in the story, and jumping all of these hurdles, etc. would take quite a bit of time...and last time I checked it's a video game, not a book or a movie.

So in order to justify the characters co-existing and losing/gaining abilities in a story mode (the real reason is they didn't try hard enough to make the Smash Bros. engine work for a full-on platformer that effectively. And you can't expect all of Nintendo's gameplay ideas to work in Smash Bros. either. Which is why it has to do its own things at times too; the team doesn't have infinite resources.)...it all takes place in a simulation...so would you say that the whole adventure "wouldn't matter" because it wouldn't be real?

SpunkySix posted...

If Nintendo never did anything that whiners didn't like, then they'd be out of bussiness because none of their games would exist.

Like not making the trophies actual characters in a multiplayer crossover and trying to put it into all of the games storylines? I kid I kid! It's actually kind of fun debating with you even if you and I do sound like broken records at this point.

#65SpunkySixPosted 2/16/2013 9:42:32 PM

I'm glad you find this fun, because I kind of do too, and it would be awkward if I was the only one.

The whole "book or movie" thing is a moot point because video games are just as valid of a story telling medium as those are... I don't know about you, but I like being told an interactive story just as much as I enjoy reading, which is a lot.

As for motivations, I'd say the fact that they wanted to give the heroes practice would be enough... maybe one of the scientists accidentally picked up on readings from super far away, made contact, and boom, teamwork.

While this would take place in a simulation and technically not be real, the danger would still be real, and the actual characters would still be involved, plus the final battle could take place outside of the simulation and be a fight against the escaped virus. Unlike trophies, which aren't even the real characters and don't have any impact on anything in the greater Nintendo universe.

Now, my question is, why even bother if they aren't going to try something like this? What purpose does story mode serve if the story doesn't matter? Being trophies really adds nothing at this point, and the level of storytelling in the SSE was pathetic. At that point, why not just make Adventure Mode, drop any hint of a shoe-horned story and be done with it? A great story would totally be worth it, but anything less might as well not exist, as it only serves to waste resources. I think we've seen from the SSE that it's kind of an all or nothing deal- they either nail it and it's awesome, or they screw it up and fans rage. I'd hope they'd be able to tackle the challenge with the writers from every series working with Sakurai and the SSB team.---Tissue to the extreme!Hey, is that Jack Ryder up there?!?

#66MeanMotorScootePosted 2/16/2013 11:27:40 PM

one thing I wouldn't mind about an actual crossover story mode...

as long as people don't take it seriously and consider it canon... Most people who want such a story mode want something so deep/thought out that it would be considered canon with all franchises involved in terms of story/lore.

But I think it would be best if it was all non-canon because then they wouldn't be bound by so many laws... besides, could you really see any of these characters bringing up smash bros in their actual stories? Imagine if in Zelda they flashed back to Link in smash bros making him remember the time he fought Kirby and Ness... granted I'm sure many people would find that awesome, but it would also seem very... out of place

Just saying, I've never seen crossover games that have been acknowledged by the people who developed them as "canon" to any of the characters/franchises involved... Other wise, again, there'd be tons of plot holes, inconsistencies, and debate about everything wrong with the crossover.

Pretty much like what goes on now, only much much worse because the crossover would start to leak into other stories/plots where it's no longer relevant and confuse people into thinking that the canon of one franchise takes place in the canon of another, turning it all into a convoluted mess of continuity and chronological confusion. (like the Zelda timeline BEFORE the real timeline was released)

TL;DR: Go ahead and make it a real crossover story with out trophies, just don't say it's canon to the characters/franchises involved.