> First of all, thanks for letting us "steal" your time for this interview.> You were a former member of Chaos Computer Club since its very beginning,> tell us how it was? Do you keep in touch with other former members?

When I got in touch with the CCC in the late 1980ies, it had alreadybecome well known through the BTX and HASPA coups. It was based inHamburg, and kind of opened a branch in Berlin (which was actually nomore than a mailing address in a record shop near my school and aweekly meeting in a pub). The CCC, as an organization, understooditself as being a channel into the public for the computerunderground. I was more of an activist and less of a politician, soin those days, my membership was only informal.

This only changed until after the KGB story had made it into thepublic and the CCC, namely Wau Holland, claimed that we (the peopleinvolved in the KGB case) were "not hackers". I officially joined theCCC at that point and even became a member of the board, motivated bythe feeling that even though we had done something wrong, we werestill hackers.

Nowadays, I meet former CCC members now and then, but that hackergeneration has mostly dissolved and everybody is doing their ownthing.

> What do you think about recent editions of the congress? Besides the number> of people which attendes, do you think there are more significant> differences between first editions or the feeling of social movements,> technology and hacking awareness is quiet the same?

I think that the congress is basically the same as it was back in the1990ies. It has grown, but as in the past, it is a place for theunderground to meet under the cover of an organization that provides achannel into the general public. I think that there was and is quitesome scepticism from the underground towards the CCC as anorganization, and many see everyone involved in the CCC as being toomedia focused and too much being part of the establishment itself. Atleast that was my view, and from a few contacts to activists I get theimpression that this is still a common view. Then again, the congressis a great opportunity to meet like-minded people, so it stillfulfills its purpose.

> Now that Wikileaks and Julian Assange are more presence in the media, and> knowing that he also belonged also to the club, did you know him? were you> close to him (as with Karl) or he was just "another member" for you like the> others?

I have not heard the name Julian Assange before last year, but thatdoes not necessarily mean that I have not met him - online - before.He is from almost the same generation as myself, and in the KGB years,I met several australian hackers so it is not totally unlikely that Ihave met him, too. In fact, Julian Assange is one of the authors ofthe "Underground" book that I've only found last year (well, and thefact that he's one of the authors is something I did not realise until2 minutes ago :) ), so at least he knows something about me. Might besecond-hand knowledge anyway.

No. I was never interested in security itself. Computer security issomething that I perceive as being in between me and the fun.Breaking security measures was something that I did in order to getaccess to machines that I wanted to play with. My interest iscomputer architecture and systems programming. Back in the day, theonly way to get to use interesting computers was to break into them.

> You started hacking when you were about sixteen years old, technology wasn't> so affordable like nowadays. Even taking into account the facilities that> are available today to approach the world of technology, do you still prefer> 'old times'?

I have fond memories of the systems of the 1990ies. I like the ideaof creating a machine, hardware and software, that form anarchitectural unity and a beautiful whole. Today's computers are notgenerally created with beauty in mind, and from that perspective, the"old times" were better. I don't generally "prefer" the old times,though: It is still possible to have fun with today's systems, andeven though one can rarely look at beautiful systems today, they arestill being created (like, for example, the GA144 chip which I reallyadmire). Also, the Internet today is basically our dreams of the late1980ies come true.

So, yes, some things in the past were nice, but I'm not looking backto turn back.

> Related to the "KGB" issue, was it hard to "reset" your life after your last> testimony in RISKS digest and everything that was told about you,> professionally and personally speaking?

Remember that I was still a teenager when I became a hacker. I hadnothing to "reset" back to, and my life went on. I had co-founded acompany when the KGB story surfaced and my partners did not want tohave me in there anymore.

I was perceived as a traitor by people that were not involved in thecase but thought they know what was going on. I spent a lot of timethinking about my role and life as a hacker, when I had better bethinking about building a career and visiting the university.

Professionally, I became a freelance programmer and this is what Istill do. I still love computers and programming, and the whole KGBthing probably added to my personality in ways that also helped mefind new jobs. Still, I sometimes think that a more regular careerwould have been nice for peace of mind.

> In the GALACTIC HACKER PARTY (Amsterdam - 1989), Wau Holland (one of the> founders of CCC) discussed with you about hacker ethics and what happened> about the sensitive information of "KGB hacks", and he said that these facts> were against CCC ideals. Were you expecting such public acussation? How did> you feel in that moment?

I was very offended. I never believed in the "hacker ethics" beingthe universal conduct for everyone calling themselves a hacker. Hisclaim that we were not hackers motivated me to join the CCC in thefirst place, but after a few years as a CCC member and also as a CCCboard member I was rather disillusioned.

I criticized the CCC version of the "hacker ethics" because it claimedboth that information wants to and should be free, but "private data"should be protected. I think that the whole idea of data that is"private" is wrong. I understand that having privacy in the digitaldomain is something that most people would rather want to have, yet Ithink that those people who should know better should educate the restthat this is just wishful thinking. I think that my hopes for the CCCbeing a place for people who know what's going on (and talk about it,too) was a bit naive.

> Had you any close friends which support you and understand you 100% after> what happened?

Not really - When I became a hacker, I pretty much got detached frommy former social circle. Again, I was in my very early 20ies, so Idid not have much to return to.

> Have you contact again with Markus Hess after what happened? Reading a> transcribed phone interview to him from PHRACK (link to that), he didn't> want to know/talk anything about this stuff anymore.

No. I have never met him after the KGB story surfaced. In fact, Ihave only met him a few times when I visited Karl in Hannover, so wehave not been close.

> You collaborated with the script of the '23' movie. Is it true that the role> of 'David', (played by Fabian Busch) was a character based both on Markus> Hess and you? Any anecdotes during the filming?

At the time when the film was made, the whole story already was wayback in the past. Seeing the film set and the original locations inthe context of the story was feeling like kind of time travel. Inretrospect, the film has influenced my view on the whole story a lot,and both August Diehl and Fabian Busch always appear to me as comingout of my own story rather than being just actors. When I met Fabianon the set, I found it rather irritating to see him smoke self-rolledcigarettes as I did back in the day. He did a great job in capturinga large part of myself in his role as David.

Overall, '23' is not so much of a hacker film. Rather, it is aportrait of Karl as a struggling young man, which is what ChristianSchmid's early oevre is all about. I think he did a good job.

> What about your every-day technology life? I mean, are you worry about your> computers, very paranoid about your data, privacy, disk encrypting and so> on, or now you prefer worrying about other things?

I am not paranoid at all, and I prefer not to worry (although Icertainly sometimes do). I do not believe in computer security withcurrent hardware. There are just too many components that arevulnerable, and I have no trust in the semiconductor and softwareindustry in general. I have seen government agencies plant backdoorsin operating systems in the early 1990ies, and I have no reason tobelieve that such practices have stopped.