To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.pagan.magick,alt.religion.angels,alt.paranet.metaphysics,talk.religion.newage
Subject: Contacting Angels: Methods/Conditions/Prerequisites
From: nagasiva
Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 09:32:49 GMT
50030801 viii om LAMMAS!!! LAMMAS!! feed the LLAMAS!!
Saint/angelicusrex :
#># ...Ask for your angels. Ask their names. Test them.
nagasiva:
#> by what means do you recommend? how do you recommend
#> that their names be determined or discovered?
Saint/angelicusrex :
# Read my book. (iUniverse.com)
not right now.
# Read my website. http://www.saintalbanstudio.com
very well.
I'm appending the excerpts of your website that
seem relevant, complete with their location and
some of my response.
the following preceded by "$" is excerpted from
"Angels Page 2" (aka "Speaking Of Angels II-FAQ-FYI")
http://www.saintalbanstudio.com/pg2.html
$ ...taken several courses in Science of Mind
$ practice at First Church of Religious Science....
$
does the FCRS describe angels in their cosmology?
do they have a reaction to those who contact them?
$ ...[I wrote] an angry letter to God about a dead
$ cat I'd seen in the road. The letter included comments
$ on the kids I was involved with and the world, with it's
$ hatreds and suffering. Instead of getting an answer
$ from God, I went into a depressive tailspin.
$
$ ...I went into a massive anxiety attack and a depression
$ which I did not feel I would ever be able to climb out of.
$
$ ...I had lost all desire for everything I had loved.
$
$ In this terrible state one day I cried out to God, "Why!?
$ Is there nothing better than this horrible world!? Where
$ is the love you've never given to me!?"
I wonder if desperation or extremity of experience is a necessary
precursor to speaking with angels for some. there is a pattern
of this type of revelation after which some describe low periods
they may associate with what St. John of the Cross called 'the
Dark Night of the Soul'. whether we might compare his supposed
straits and that of others is debatable, but the trajectory is
comparable to be sure. modern New Age theorists sometimes talk
about 'The Spiritual Emergency', for example, and mean by this
a kind of pun on 'emergent spirituality' and difficult periods
of health both mental and physical.
$ Suddenly I had a
$ flash, a vision of a place of vast importance. A place I
$ could not give a name to. There, in the midst was a
$ thousand, thousand brightly burning figures of light.
$ From them poured a kind of love that I had never knew
$ could existed. It enveloped me, comforted me, flowed
$ inside of me. I literally fell to my knees and wept it
$ was so intense. From that day I began to relax.
I've had a couple of similar experiences -- one amidst a
suicidal journey which I deemed 'an adventure into death'
and later after my return in a ritual with friends.
$ My sleep was still disturbed, but I was taking hot baths
$ to relax which helped a lot. I was also prescribed
$ Elevil and Xanax by my doctor. (It was the Xanax that
$ nearly drove me to suicide, because I hadn't known it
$ was a depressant). So the doctor prescribed Elevil to
$ ease the depressive effects. I felt like a drugged out
$ Zombie most of the time. So slowly I began to wean
$ myself off the drugs.
I find it intriguing that psychoactives are associated with
some contacts with nonordinary beings. critical people will
no doubt negate these experiences *because* they may be
mediated or influenced by such substances (whether they are
prescribed or proscribed by the surrounding society). that
the contact persists *beyond* such mediation is important
to a study of the phenomenon.
my own experience is not in association with prescribed
substances but instead those which I found conducive to
euphoria and ecstatic trance-states, often restrained
to standards after the recommendation of Andrew Weil his
"Natural Mind" (focussing AWAY from lab-refinement,
especially allies which occur in nature such as Cannibis
and Psilocybus, varieties of that commonly known as
pot/marijuana and mushrooms). my relations with each of
these has varied over the years from nil to comparably
familiar, though mushrooms were unusual and like most
psychedelics I've experienced (including LSD, which you
mention later), tended to lead me *away* from repeat
experiences and ground what I had encountered in my daily
life. with powerful psychedelics my experience was of what
I've sometimes called 'The Etch-a-Sketch-Shake' or what
mystics of ceremonial chemistry (neo-shamanism) have
sometimes referred to as a purgation of the sensorial
equipment: a reset-to-defaults and engagement of
oceanic or very rudimentary consciousness. Weil recommends
infrequency and regulating one's encounters with what I've
called after Casteneda and others these "allies" into what
are effectively ritualistic and ceremonial circumstances,
and discipline where they are concerned is quite helpful.
$ Using many anti-anxiety and meditative techniques I
$ began to lift my own spirits. One day relaxing in a
$ hot bath I wondered how I could relieve a rash I'd
$ had for a year, which the doctors could do nothing
$ for. I heard the words "grape juice" as if they were
$ formed from my own thoughts. Yet I could tell the
$ voice was not mine. I began asking this thought/voice
$ questions about the grape juice. It began to give me
$ instructions. I listened, wrote them down, followed
$ them. Sure as anything, my rash was relieved by the
$ next week! From then on I began to speak with this
$ helpful voice until I learned that it was an Angel.
my initial encounters were quite similar, during physical
challenge during a pilgrimmage to a nearby forest, and later
as part of an extended, shifting conversation which began
with a couple of peculiar Tarot readings and resolved into
an ongoing relationship which I would come to regard as
having a mystical and magical character. you can read some
of what I've recorded in 1993 and 1994 respectively here:
Liber Augoeides: The Mystery of the Holy Guardian Angel
http://www.luckymojo.com/avidyana/gnostik/laugoeides.tn
Kali's Commenz -- The Book of Blood
http://www.luckymojo.com/avidyana/dallun/bookofblood.tn
$ Believe me, I tested him. I asked him to quote
$ scripture, to say the name of Jesus, to say Jesus
$ was his master. He answered all these things and
$ more. We actually got to know each other.
you seem to have been asked about testing quite a lot, else
I doubt you'd have reacted to Tom and I the way that you did.
even so, you make special note here that you tested Annex.
my request during my initial tarot contact was for some
evidence that the intelligence apparently contacting me was
not my own, and I was directed to formal symbolism which my
waking mind had never before encountered. it was right before
me in resonance between two very important objects (a ring I
called 'Enjoyment' and the Unicursal Hexagram included in my
Harris-Crowley 'Thoth' deck that I used as Querent. I could
not dismiss this out of hand as a 'mere coincidence' since
I had felt compelled to the revelation at the moment I
requested the evidence.
$ He was
$ absolutely patient, absolutely honest and everything
$ he said would happen did happen. I began learning
$ from him about the world of the spirit. He was then
$ joined by three others, two males and one female.
$ Together after a half a year's time they became
$ "Annex" and began to speak in a sort of Greek Chorus
$ voice, blending wisdom, experience and spiritual
$ knowledge to make a formidable single entity. What I
$ learned from them was often amazing, beyond my
$ conceptions and illusions....
$
$ I told absolutely no one but my wife. She had her own
$ Angelic group, which called themselves Izod. (Which
$ sounds of course, like the clothing company). These
$ had manifested to her after her father's death ten
$ years previously. She never spoke much about them. yet
$ I had seen, over the time we shared together, that they
$ would give her pertinent and effective information
$ whenever she needed it....
it is interesting also that you had previously encountered
people around you who believed in angels, an angelic group
in fact, particularly your wife. I had been drawn to what
some have called 'The Cult of the Holy Guardian Angel'
through the writings of Aleister Crowley and enjoyed
talking with those who believed in such a personal entity
about what it was, what encountering it meant, and how it
might come to pass. some had very specific ideas about the
incident, its rarity, and presumed it an indication of
spiritual achievement, advancement, or adeptship. I wasn't
so sure, but thought that the phenomenon (as associated
with such notables as Socrates and (the probably legendary)
Abramelin the Mage to be compelling, even inviting. my
tendencies toward study of devotional religion (particularly
that which was not familiar to me, such as the Krishna
Consciousness Movement, whom I studied in college along
with other other conversion-oriented Eastern religions for
which Western manifestations might easily be encountered.
it probably also helped that I'd had such extensive
exposure to the New Age community, for whom angelic and
extraordinary contacts from beyond the physical plane are
thought to be quite real encounters with important beings.
$ The closest I ever came to true [religious] experience
$ was on LSD in 1970, when I realized everything was One
$ with God and that God was One with everything. Yet I
$ was never able to bring that into a realistic life
$ changing focus. The experience was sweet and it
$ expanded my consciousness, but I could not live it. I
$ was only sixteen after all. Too young still to utilize
$ the knowledge I'd been given.
here's a difference between the two of us. my mother had
conditioned me to distrust psychoactives as corrosive of the
will and delusion-making, even severely damaging. I had to
endure a somewhat difficult time of my young adulthood
(post-19, my initial experimentation with psychoactives)
discovering the limitations of what I later concluded that
I did not really believe: there *were* (shamanic) advantages
to psychoactives, despite her prejudices. I would be among
the few I was to know with any consistency aside from the
occasional author or passing mystic who agreed with me on
this point and wasn't ensnared in an unfocussed hazy and
totally ungrounded state barely functioning in society.
$ ...
$
$ Under the tutelage of Annex I began to be directed
$ slowly to ...the TRUTH with a capital T.
I have felt that way before. my education in mathematics,
sciences, and philosophy leads me quite often to a
deconstructing of this type of certitude. perhaps that is
to my disadvantage, but this hasn't been my perception of
the events. I think I've been served well to maintain a
kind of grounding and continued progress by my skepticism.
$ ...we ask questions, [the Angels] look into what are
$ called "The Akashik Records" and they deliver an answer.
quasi-Blavatskian. had you heard of the Akashic Library or
Akashic Library from someone besides your angelic contacts?
I read about it in Indian or Theosophic sources, I think.
the following preceded by "%" is excerpted from
"Speaking of Angels II- FAQ"
http://www.saintalbanstudio.com/pg3.html
% There are two entities speaking here. Me, David St.
% Albans and Annex, a group of four or more angels
% working together.
that's also interesting. Kali has appeared to me in a variety
of guises, I've understood Her in a variety of ways, and even
understood in my interaction with Her that She had 'facets'
or 'sides' with which I might interact. I've rarely tried
to catalogue these, but those most obvious to me so far
are Xiwangmu, Kwanyin, and Satan. this latter I've only
approached via pact and with great caution, understanding
that Satan was "Kali's most corrosive or destructive
(wildest) aspect". I haven't ever had the notion that there
was some kind of 'coordination' amongst these aspects,
though it has often occurred to me that Kali was most
comprehensively knowable as 'all that is not me', and that
my most inherent identity would be reflected as Her mate
(thus She gave me the name 'nagasiva' as a key to this and
as an honorific to the great sage Nagarjuna of the Buddhists).
% ...
%
% Thank you and Namaste' (Which means "The God-Self
% within in me meets, greets and blesses the God-Self
% within you!) David St. Albans
amusing the winds of apparent chance, aren't they? I've used
'namaste' as a respectful and spiritful greeting and parting
blessing for years, signifying by it something similar that
I learned: 'I bow to the divinity of you.'
% ...
%
% Q. How do the angels speak to you?
%
% A. They utilize my own brain and internally generated
% thought dialogue. I do not "hear" voices with my ears.
% rather I think thoughts of my own towards them and
% they answer with thoughts of their own which sound
% much like my own thoughts, but there is a slight
% difference in intent and strength.
this is generally how I interact with Kali. usually my own
thoughts require quieting if I am to actually hear Her.
else I have noticed that I can almost completely block out
the particular internal voice I associate with Her that I
am not aware of creating myself (and which sometimes gives
me insights and information that I do not otherwise know).
% I can tell when
% they are speaking because often I want to "mouth
% the words" and speak them as they are coming in.
I've occasionally experienced this also, depending on my
state of consciousness. the desire to actually speak
Kali's words usually comes about if I am in a very deep
trance-state where my own is somewhat opaqued/obscured.
% Their "voices" can also "sound like" or have the
% appearance of either female or male. This often
% depends on what they feel I need to hear at the
% time. Though there are four or more voices of
% distinct personality and histories, (right now
% I speak with Dr. Gunter, Hank, Bolt and Jean...
% in case you wanted their names as they have
% given them to me), they most often now speak
% as one entity titled, "Annex"
this is another very interesting parallel between us.
initially Kali wasn't known to me as such, but as a
series of entities I encountered with graduated power.
first She appeared in the guise of trees. sometime
later this changed as I discovered Her appearance
in association with dragons (encountered in a variety
of contexts, from ritual construction and worship to
psychedelic journeying in which such draconic energies
became more apparent to me, or at specific locations
of intense energetic flux I identified with ancient
telluric power). when I first saw, in one of my many
studies of iconography and religion (akin to your
own, from what you said on your other web-page),
Kali's picture, I simply *knew* who I was gazing
upon: She whom I had thought of as trees and
dragons, my spirit guide, or holy guardian angel.
in general my experience has been similar to yours
in that any of these appearances became resolved to
a single graphic complex I could learn and understand
in relation to an Indian goddess (set really), whose
composure and faces were instructive and inspiring
of ardent devotion.
% ...they never break in [to ordinary life without
% invitation/query], except when I am feeling sick
% or particularly agitated emotionally, and they
% always break in with comforting words and wisdom
% I needed to hear....
this is precisely how Kali treats me. She is what I'd
describe as 'hesitant' to the point that there have
been extended periods where we have but brief inter-
actions. I cannot remember a time that She was not
willing to respond to me, though my ability to hear
Her can vary depending on how noisy my internal and
external circumstances might be. meditation and focus
usually enable a clearer perception of Her broadening
and expansive comments.
% ...
%
% As to how one connects with angels. It is
% important to remove all noises, radios, TV,
% even calming "meditiational music" can
% interfere with angelic communication. Another
% thing which interferes is either fear or
% intense desire. Be calm, be unafraid. If you
% know how to meditate, then relax the body and
% calm all inner voices and thoughts. Frame a
% question in your mind. Ask that question. It
% may take several attempts but eventually you
% will hear an answer. It may be only one or two
% words. It will sound similar to your own
% thoughts. write the answer down. See if it has
% use to you. If it does you are on the right
% track. Now began to ask your angelic contact
% about itself, it's name, it's intent.
these are valuable trajectories of approach to
communication with spirits. there of course others.
it happens that this is precisely the manner by which
I have also learned to communicate with one I know as
my goddess, God, and Holy Guardian Angel. quieting my
mind is one important factor. and yet this isn't the
only aspect, I've noticed. there are certain states
of mood, or receptivity, sometimes mediated by allies,
which are more conducive to contact and clear exchange
than others.
my most intense experience with Kali has certainly
been as facilitated by him I know as Psilos. within
the rapture I felt in Kali's arms, I was suffused in
an ocean of Her bliss, and wept tears of gladness
for Her beneficence at choosing to bless me with Her
contact and love. in similar states, we have danced
together and shared the dalliance of love which some
claim forbidden or impossible except to madmen.
% An angel
% will #1. Always give you its name, so that you
% can communicate better. It's name maybe simply
% "help" at first. Or it may give you a sign or
% symbol. Later the true name will be spoken.
% #2. An angel will ask nothing of you. It will
% need not make any bargains, nor will it ask
% you to do something "special" for it. If the
% voice bargains with you, strongly commands
% you to do its bidding, or says it will give
% you what you want or give you special powers
% if you allow it to use you, this is NOT an
% angel.
whereas you may render your assessment of whether it is
an angel, my response to such behaviour was similarly
withdrawing of trust and obedience without evaluation.
my experience is much like your own, and yet I wouldn't
speak with certainty on such matters as may concern
their contacts with the unseen.
in fact, in rituals with others and at times alone I've
been asked to do things for gods and goddesses to which
I've varied in my assent. a particular goddess asked me
long ago that if I were to make a cord as I was learning
about amongst Wiccans that I make it green of colour for
Her. one priestess of Hecate asked me to convey a message
to Kali for the goddess, which I did in my own way. there
have also been times that I've received requests or even
demands from gods or spirits (usually represented by some
other human through which it ostensibly communicated)
which I refused as politely as I was able. intrusion, as
you have put it, is not something with which I cooperated.
to an extent such beings or intelligences have their role
as those such as you and I see it. whereas you deem them
not 'angelic' should they misbehave, I'm inclined to see
the world less in terms of these strict categories and
moreso in terms more malleable and reconstituting. those
some regard as 'demons', for example, are those I can
trust to honour pacts. their assistance is valuable, as
far as I know it, against the dominating orderly forces
in service to human exploitation and superiority.
your suggested inquiries are comparable to those
suggested to you by others including me in our
previous discussion (asking after identity, intent).
it isn't so unusual even to you to discover more,
especially initially and in disjointed instances,
of your angels.
the following preceded by "&" is excerpted from
"Annex Page" (aka "Annex's Page" -- The Angels Speak!)
http://www.saintalbanstudio.com/pg4.html
& #1. An angel is a Messenger from God. If they aren't
& talking about God or expressing God to you in some
& way, then they are NOT an angel.
this surpasses my ability to either confirm or deny, but
those I know of similar quality do not confirm it, being
not inclined to speak of "Gods" or "gods" or "the Gods".
maybe that's because I come from a family background in
which religion was largely absent, the only spiritual
icons present being animals and wild locatons.
when some religious would express similar things to me,
my understanding has usually been that this was a kind
of religio-cultural filter by which one might understand
the beneficent and harmless energies of the world, both
imagined and actual. then again, perhaps it had something
to do with what you also write:
& #2. Though some people speak of a difference
& and/or a hierarchy in the angelic hosts, angels
& themselves do not speak in this manner. They
& have no egos....
this would fit not only with my experience of Kali, but
also with demons, who claim there is no hierarchy as
they know it, more an anarchistic complex. you go on to
identify him you call Buddha as an angel one may contact.
you say that angels are "God Energy", "Light Workers",
who are beyond religious distinctions, supportive of all
religious views of them, cannot be controlled or used to
harm others, are at a "higher vibration" leading us
toward that God, and that the physical is a "low level
reality". this reminds me greatly of New Age contentions
about the universe which I find intriguing but as yet
unconvincing and dualistic.
Kali, contrastingly, tells me that She is Time, Change,
the Fluctuating World. She says that like women, She is
downtrodden, overlooked, and cast out as evil for that
which is changeless, eternal, and unitary, while the
best focus I may attain is on the sights complementing
my unsatiated desire with respect to Her (where I am
sick to death of the adulation of the One seek the
Myriad; where I am repulsed by the multitudes, seek the
solitary), and by this method my work to assist Her most
wild side (Satan) will yield the fruit of the satiation
of every desire (rather than foolishly opposing what is
a natural part and parcel of us all).
do I think these things are capital T Truths? no. but I
see their value, and appreciate the resonances between
what our differing angelic instructors have to say.
# my "report" with both "instruction" and
# "unreliable nonsense." And you conclude it
# is unreliable
no conclusion reached on your reliability. I've
only said I see danger signs, no more. "beware"
was my word of caution.
#> and telling us how Ouija boards are prone to problems.
#
# Wrong. I never said there was a problem with Ouija
# boards at all. I have used them to good effect.
interesting. here's the text to which I'm referring.
## There are bad human spirits. People generally get
## involved with these during Ouija board sessions,
## seances and that sort of thing. However the worst
## these beings ever really do is scare people.
## Throwing things around, hiding things, making noises.
## These are "poltergeists." And are basically harmless.
## They are easily gotten rid of.
# I said that this is often how people contact lost
# human souls, who can often be bad or mischevious.
# They may try to imitate angels. But they are not
# angels. They are lost human souls. That is that
# fact that angels gave me. You may dispose f it as
# you wish. But don't put words into my mouth about
# Ouija.
still sounds like 'Ouija boards are prone to
problems' to me, but thanks for the clarification.
#># My mother used to tell me that "talking to oneself
#># isn't crazy, as long as you don't start answering
#># yourself."
# ...People warn others against being insane,
# as if there was anything one could do about it!
wonderfully put. if it is genetic, perhaps there is
nothing that can be done about it. if insanity is
something that can be triggered (like 'episodes'),
say, into flare-ups, then activities may be valuably
avoided so as to refrain from negatively impacting
those around one. skipping one's meds, for example.
...
these are important skills of discernment for the
intrepid angel-watcher: those who are capable of
distinguishing their own thoughts from that of the
angels are more valuable for reference than those
what gets 'em all muddled. if you do it with humans,
chances are, you're doing it with angels too.
#> Buscaglia said some
#> very beautiful things about doing things for
#> which one would be thought insane with which
#> I tend to agree. it broadens horizons where
#> pursued with tactfulness.
#
# Or it can wind you up in a straitjacket.
thus I say "where pursued with tactfulness". you
really oughtta pay more attention to the details.
# I've WATCHED people go insane. They cannot stop
# listening to the voices.
ah, so you generalized from your minor experiences
to the greater human population. this conforms
to your general method of communication also.
most of us do it to one extent or another.
#> the variability of your response to me and the
#> projection of your imagination upon me may be
#> an indicator that your reflection on your own
#> process may not be reliable. were I to exhibit
#> the same symptoms, I would hope the same
#> criticism would be levelled against me.
#
# Uhm well consider it levelled! You are making
# less sense than I am. To my way of thinking.
it wasn't sense to which I pointed. someone's
not making sense might be as simple as your not
being familiar with my lexicon, or our being in
very different states of consciousness, or even
from different parts of the world. what I've
commented upon so far has to do with something
pertinent to your claim to reflect capital T
Truth with capital F Facts from capital A Angels.
were I making similar claims, perhaps your level
of criticism would be more astute.
#> how does one achieve authority with respect to
#> angelic communication?
#
# I don't know? One publishes a treatise? One publishes
# a website explaining the treatise.
publishing? ok. that's acceptable. gotta know how to
write somewhat. gotta have social connections. I'm not
sure it really demonstrates facility with angels, tho.
# One shows ones credentials? I am a Reiki Master. I am a
# Reverend.
the other Saint already addressed these, as I did above.
I'm still curious what the FCRS says about your angels.
do you still have friends in that religious organization?
# I have spent 35 years studying human symbology,
# anthropology, archeology, theology and speaking
# with angels.
isn't it fun? that's a long time, 35 years. keen.
# If someone has "more authority" I am happy to bow
# to their authority. However, if there is no authority
# you will accept
c'mon, because I ask how one attains authority you
automatically think I accept none? look above and you
will see that I genuinely like you, think we have much
in common, and enjoy comparing our experiences and
writings on the subject of angelic communication.
it is true that I'm an irrascible philosopher who bows
no knee to mere claims to truth, challenging that until
I can see its resilience and stalwart capacity to fend
off a variety of intellectual challenges. that doesn't
mean (even if I question your perceptual skill) that I
don't consider you to be authoritative.
the other Saint said it aright by my sights. your best
claim to authority in my eyes is that you are DOING IT.
don't let those cynics get you down, angelicusrex, I'm
pulling for you! I may oppose you in the intellectual
arena, but that doesn't mean I want you to pull up your
tent and go home or nuttin! no way! you'll be able to
see what I appreciate by how I resonate with it, whether
I underscore your assertions, firm up your contentions
with experience of my own, and generally accord with you.
that sets the standards of our coincident knowledge,
even if there is no more to be had. ;>
# (as many here do not accept my credentials, it doesn't
# matter if I have participated in angelic conversations,
# angelic healings, conversations with God, miraculous
# events or anything else.
my impression, being but a party of 1 and speaking only
for myself, is that the first is the most important.
the second may be more valuable to psychics and shamans,
possibly physicians, the third to theologians and
moralists, and the miraculous to any with consolidated
visions of true cosmology that you might shatter with
your God futzing up the Laws they've known and obeyed. :>
(these are the jokes, people!!!)
# In fact, people like those at alt.magick seem to
# think this is all very hilarious,)
I'm actually being serious, while occasionally trying
to simultaneously amuse. I mean my respect for your
activity from the bottom of my heart. too few talk
about the kind of experiences that you are having.
we're kindred spirits! I don't get a chance to shoot
the shit with people so alike to me in general!!
aw let 'em laugh their armchair mage asses off.
you've always got killfiles if they get too annoying.
# then there is little more I can offer you.
oh you're so nice to offer me anything at all! you
can't imagine the tedious occult world and its ever-
flowing cynicism and quasi-exaltation of those in
positions of societal power, mimicking the very
institutions it pretends to replace!
you offer me gold with every ounce of attention,
O My Chosen! that you are verily willing to give
voice to the angels you have come to know is your
gift unto the world, whatever its content. may
they consistently bless you with their wisdom and
their potent abilities.
and should you deign to persist in conversation
with one so abrasive and confusingly verbose as
I, well, it will serve as a mark of your authority
where I stand (because I'm that kind of siva :>).
nagasiva