<quoted text>I understand you have no defense for the RCC, your sect being the one true deposit of faith with an unbroken Apostolic line is one big fat lie.RCC history tells us so with out doubt.YOU keep going in circles and you keep refusing to acknowledge the emperor has no clothes.Your post is a diversion and nothing more, a way for you to try and change the subject.I don't play games.

I understand that I have made several points with you regarding Webster/Church fathers, scripture and authority and you have done nothing but respond with ad hominem attacks and tired cliches'. Seriously, who's the one playing games, diverting and failing to defend?

<quoted text>Again---I am saying that the "written WORD of God, as we know it (in the bible today, NEVER EXISTED until the Early Church Fathers, gave us the bible in 383,392, and 397AD. When Jesus Christ initiated HIS 1st Church at Antioch (Acts 2) the Apostles proclaimed the WORD OF GOD----directly from the "oral" teachings handed down by Jesus HIMSELF.(the "unwritten Word". THERE WAS NO BIBLE (the WRITTEN WORD OF GOD)!!!! In I thess 2:13 Paul confirms this by saying that the oral teachings of the Apostles are the Word of God which is exactly what was taught in the 1st century Church by the Apostles..... Paul re-confirms this aqain in 2 Thess 2:15 when he tells us we are to know the Gospel by "holding fastto the traditions" handed down to us by the Apsostles from Jesus HIMSELF, whether by WORD OF MOUTH (orally) or by THE LETTER (written. He NEVER says the written only). Scripture doesn't say that all Christians teaching is to be found in Scripture!! Scripture tells us to obey Tradition as well. These teachings were handed down from the Apostles to the Early Church Fathers, who wrote about these things "in great detail". This is why Catholics believe in Sola Verbum dei (the Word of God alone). This word comes directly from Christ and the Apostles through both the written and the oral tradition,(again) 2 Thess 2:15 which has been entrusted to the Church that Jesus HIMSELF built in Matt 16:13-21, I Tim 3:15) The ineffable wisdom of God is made known through His Church (Eph.3:9-10...... I suggest that you read TRUE Apostolic Church History and discover how the Early Christians "interpreted the Word of God" and not you and your other 21 century preachers. If you do, you will be in a "holy shock"!!!

~~~

I have told you what the truth is... OVER AND OVER AGAIN and you reject it...

I HAVE GIVEN YOU HUNDREDS OF SCRIPTURES OVER THE YEARS...AND THEY HAVE FALLEN TO DEAF EARS...

JUST REMEMBER THIS...WHEN IT HAPPENS...YOU WERE WARNED

Pro 29:1 He, that being often reproved hardeneth his neck, shall suddenly be destroyed, and that without remedy.

who="Anthony MN"Forgive me for being a bit confused Dan, but are you saying baptism remits sin and regenerates only if it's preceded by repentence and acceptance of Christ by a cognitive person? And is there something other than symbolism in the action of the water and the invocation of the Blessed Trinity?----------Every sensible parent bathes (baptizes) their children...regardless of their religious beliefs. It does not make the child a 'Christian'.(Even atheists do this 'act of cleansing'.)

So when St. Paul says;

"In our baptism, we have been buried with him, died like him, that so, just as Christ was raised up by his Fathers power from the dead, we too might live and move in a new kind of existence. "

and

"All you who have been baptized in Christs name have put on the person of Christ; no more Jew or Gentile, no more slave and freeman, no more male and female; you are all one person in Jesus Christ."

<quoted text>Not so fast. What game is this you play? You've been continually foul-mouthed and abusive to me and every other Catholic on this board. You've also regularly given a pass to and condoned the abuse of Catholics by others. To your detriment, you've taken lessons from your mentor, so your question is dishonest. An apology from you will certainly bury it.

I didn't think you'd admit to it...

I have been foul mouthed and abusive to you??? Really..show me a post.

<quoted text>Oh pharisee of Pharisees I see you have rules for everybody else that don't apply to you and then one rule for yourself, I can do what ever I want.You'd make a good Pope your hypocrisy is top quality..

To be honest, I think people who pick up a bible and think they know better than the Christians who were taught by the apostles are the height of arrogance and appoint themselves paper popes with more power than a pope has ever had.

<quoted text>I didn't think you'd admit to it...I have been foul mouthed and abusive to you??? Really..show me a post.

I never said I didn't, chuck, as you well know. That's why you rephrased it. Dishonest of you. Yes, you have been. Do you think only certain words are foul and abusive?? Not very spiritually discerning of you. I'm surprised (see, I just paid you a compliment).

Okay, in a spirit of good will I'll give you a chance to save face. What is your take on Christ's advice(?) to us to be perfect as our heavenly Father is perfect? I'm not sure that any of us can be perfect, and certainly not *that* perfect. We're to make that our goal, yes, but.... I'm certain you know what I mean. What do you think?

<quoted text>To be honest, I think people who pick up a bible and think they know better than the Christians who were taught by the apostles are the height of arrogance and appoint themselves paper popes with more power than a pope has ever had.

<quoted text>I never said I didn't, chuck, as you well know. That's why you rephrased it. Dishonest of you. Yes, you have been. Do you think only certain words are foul and abusive?? Not very spiritually discerning of you. I'm surprised (see, I just paid you a compliment).Okay, in a spirit of good will I'll give you a chance to save face. What is your take on Christ's advice(?) to us to be perfect as our heavenly Father is perfect? I'm not sure that any of us can be perfect, and certainly not *that* perfect. We're to make that our goal, yes, but.... I'm certain you know what I mean. What do you think?

<quoted text>~~~HOW CAN A PERSON BE A PAPER POPEWHEN THE POSITION OF POPE DOES NOT EXIST...ONLY IN YOU IMAGINATION AND INVENTIONS...THE BIBLE SAYS NOTHING ABOUT A POPE...YOU CANNOT PROVIDE A BOOK CHAPTER OR A VERSE THATREMOTELY REFERS TO A POPE..

<quoted text>~~~HOW CAN A PERSON BE A PAPER POPEWHEN THE POSITION OF POPE DOES NOT EXIST...ONLY IN YOU IMAGINATION AND INVENTIONS...THE BIBLE SAYS NOTHING ABOUT A POPE...YOU CANNOT PROVIDE A BOOK CHAPTER OR A VERSE THATREMOTELY REFERS TO A POPE..

<quoted text>You call me dishonest and you want to be pals..no thanks.Anyway...what did I re-phrase? Did you cuss are not?

That's fine, it's up to you. I offered the olive branch, in spite of your dishonesty...which you persist in, by the way. Talk about rabbit holes!! What a pity that you've chosen to follow down his path. And for what, a pat or two on the head? How many months/years did he play this same game with someone else, to the point that people were recognizing him as being mentally unstable? We all watched, and now you're taking up the torch. What a pity. Have a good one, charles. God help you.

Stop pretending your farts don't stink. There is nothing more obvious on this thread than the fact that the more anti-Catholic someone is, the more they reak of dung as they go about with their holier than thou attitudes. Get real.

Regina: Very obvious...that's the first thing everyone notices who comes to this board. Don't let that thing bother you, it and the rest of the non-Catholics have the foulest, most abusive mouths I've ever heard. Every single one of them. Then they sit back and tell us about how God is always with them. Uh-huh. They should try a little more publican and lot less pharisee.

--------These two posts tell it all. They accuse Protestants of having foul mouths, while declaring that they (Protestants) "reek of dung".

I challenge anyone to do a search of posts on here, and find who really have the foul mouths.

Regardless of what church one professes to belong to, Jesus said that 'they will know you are My disciples by your great love'. NO church or (supposed) Christian, that degrades any human being that Jesus died for, on the basis of what/how they believe, is truly following Him.

Just Sayin wrote:Stop pretending your farts don't stink. There is nothing more obvious on this thread than the fact that the more anti-Catholic someone is, the more they reak of dung as they go about with their holier than thou attitudes.Get real.Regina: Very obvious...that's the first thing everyone notices who comes to this board. Don't let that thing bother you, it and the rest of the non-Catholics have the foulest, most abusive mouths I've ever heard. Every single one of them. Then they sit back and tell us about how God is always with them. Uh-huh. They should try a little more publican and lot less pharisee.--------These two posts tell it all. They accuse Protestants of having foul mouths, while declaring that they (Protestants) "reek of dung".I challenge anyone to do a search of posts on here, and find who really have the foul mouths.Regardless of what church one professes to belong to, Jesus said that 'they will know you are My disciples by your great love'. NO church or (supposed) Christian, that degrades any human being that Jesus died for, on the basis of what/how they believe, is truly following Him.HE would say to all: "Repent"...KayMarie

You don't really want that search, Kay. Believe me, you don't. You'd rue the day you ever asked for it.I suggest you have a very narrow and self-serving definition of what constitutes foul and abusive language.

History of the "glorious" Roman Catholic church.And Jesus was the founder of this cesspool? I don't think so.

January 1992: "Father" Wilson Smart raped an altar boy years earlier and photographed him without clothes.

February 1992, Wisconsin: "Father" Bruce Hall was tried in Wisconsin for caressing a boy, 12 years of age, during visits to the rectory for counseling.

March 1992, California: "Father" Victor Ubaldi was charged by a San Diego woman for molesting her numerous times when she was a pre and early teenager.

April 1992, California: "Father" Patrick Kelly, aged 71, absconded to Ireland after being charged with molesting a little girl, having been forbidden to remain in the State of California.

May 1992, Arizona: "Father" Mark Lehman was sued by parents in the Diocese of Phoenix, AZ, who claimed he had molested their three children. He had received a ten year prison sentence only one month before for exploiting several other children.

June 1992, Massachusetts: "Father" Richard Lavigne in Shelbourne Falls, MA. was found guilty and jailed for 12 counts of child rape. For months he insisted that the accusations were part of a plot framed by a local group that had left his church.

July 1992, California: "Father" J.T. Monaghan (a retired priest) was charged with taking a 7 year old Sacramento girl, who he was counseling into the kitchen for cookies where he allegedly abused her.

August 1992, Indiana & Illinois: "Father" Patrick White, aldeady under indictment in the State of Indiana for his abuse of boys, was arrested in Illinois for criminal sexual assault of a minor. At the time of his arrest, law enforcement officers found Mr. White destroying snapshots of nude boys.

September 1992, Massachusetts: "Father" Ron Provost was charged and found guilty to having taken photographs of -2- unclothed boys (7 to 10 years old) in his rectory in Barre, MA. in order to obtain sexual pleasure. Some of the photos were 15 years old.

October 1992, New York: "'Father" Daniel Calabrese sodomized a minor in his Poughkeepsie, N.Y. rectory and was found guilty. After sentencing him to 90 days in jail, the District Attorney, William Grady reprimanded Cardinal John O'Connor for ignoring previous complaints concerning Calabrese's behavior.

November 1992, Wisconsin: "Father" David Malsch was charged with taking a 14 year old boy in Wausau, Wisconsin, to a motel for two days, where he fondled him in the pool, gave him alcohol and took photos of the boy without clothes in the motel room. The boy had a learning disability,

December 1992, Massachusetts & New Mexico: "Father" David Holley after being accused of molesting children in Worcester, MA. was transferred to Alamogordo, NM, to a treatment center known as the Servants of the Paraclete. In New Mexico, he allegedly molested other children.

1993, California: In Santa Barbara over 30 children were molested in a seminary.

1993, Illinois: Bishop Joseph Imesch of Joliet, IL, was quoted saying: "These are times that shake our faith and confidence in our most cherished systems and institutions. We hear about sexual abuse and the shattering effect it has on the victims, their families and the community. I am particularly shocked and saddened when I hear of allegations that some of our priests have committed these acts." The bishop was speaking from experience as he had recently removed six molesting priests.

<quoted text>That's fine, it's up to you. I offered the olive branch, in spite of your dishonesty...which you persist in, by the way. Talk about rabbit holes!!What a pity that you've chosen to follow down his path. And for what, a pat or two on the head? How many months/years did he play this same game with someone else, to the point that people were recognizing him as being mentally unstable? We all watched, and now you're taking up the torch. What a pity. Have a good one, charles. God help you.

Can we get back to my original question that you continue to ignore.

Have you cussed on this forum? You not answering is going to make folks think you did Regina. So I guess if you don't answer we'll assume the obvious. Just don't talk like that in front of your children.

Just Sayin wrote:Stop pretending your farts don't stink. There is nothing more obvious on this thread than the fact that the more anti-Catholic someone is, the more they reak of dung as they go about with their holier than thou attitudes.Get real.Regina: Very obvious...that's the first thing everyone notices who comes to this board. Don't let that thing bother you, it and the rest of the non-Catholics have the foulest, most abusive mouths I've ever heard. Every single one of them. Then they sit back and tell us about how God is always with them. Uh-huh. They should try a little more publican and lot less pharisee.--------These two posts tell it all. They accuse Protestants of having foul mouths, while declaring that they (Protestants) "reek of dung".I challenge anyone to do a search of posts on here, and find who really have the foul mouths.Regardless of what church one professes to belong to, Jesus said that 'they will know you are My disciples by your great love'. NO church or (supposed) Christian, that degrades any human being that Jesus died for, on the basis of what/how they believe, is truly following Him.HE would say to all: "Repent"...KayMarie

"NO church or (supposed) Christian, that degrades any human being that Jesus died for, on the basis of what/how they believe, is truly following Him."

Your husband is the king of degrading and demeaning Catholics and our faith on the basis of what/how we believe. I hope you meant this for him as well.

Stop pretending your farts don't stink. There is nothing more obvious on this thread than the fact that the more anti-Catholic someone is, the more they reak of dung as they go about with their holier than thou attitudes.Get real.

Regina: Very obvious...that's the first thing everyone notices who comes to this board. Don't let that thing bother you, it and the rest of the non-Catholics have the foulest, most abusive mouths I've ever heard. Every single one of them. Then they sit back and tell us about how God is always with them. Uh-huh. They should try a little more publican and lot less pharisee.

<quoted text>==========Did I fall down the Rabbit Hole?I SAID I use Christ for guidance. You criticized this and said you use the Word.YOU SAID #479705You are welcome to follow your meology...I will follow the Word of God:CHRISTIANS DO NOT SEEK THE GUIDANCE OF CHRIST...no need...we rely on, accept, and live by His promise:Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.Evidently you don't live by His Word....ANSWERING PAD I SAID:SCRIPTURES always come first- Over tradition, Over any other sourceTherefore who helps us in understanding Holy Scripture and who guides us? First the Holy Spirit and secondly Tradition and the Holy Fathers over the many centuries which have helped with the interpretations of the Bible.The Fathers can err.The only Fathers' writings that are accepted are those backed by Scripture. The Fathers quote very very extensively from Scripture to back their statements.YOU SAID:#479732"You gave Christ His walking papers????!!!!! What happened????"

You don't understand the question??? Quote: You gave Christ His walking papers????!!!!! What happened????"

History of the "glorious" Roman Catholic church.And Jesus was the founder of this cesspool? I don't think so.January 1992: "Father" Wilson Smart raped an altar boy years earlier and photographed him without clothes.February 1992, Wisconsin: "Father" Bruce Hall was tried in Wisconsin for caressing a boy, 12 years of age, during visits to the rectory for counseling.March 1992, California: "Father" Victor Ubaldi was charged by a San Diego woman for molesting her numerous times when she was a pre and early teenager.April 1992, California: "Father" Patrick Kelly, aged 71, absconded to Ireland after being charged with molesting a little girl, having been forbidden to remain in the State of California.May 1992, Arizona: "Father" Mark Lehman was sued by parents in the Diocese of Phoenix, AZ, who claimed he had molested their three children. He had received a ten year prison sentence only one month before for exploiting several other children.June 1992, Massachusetts: "Father" Richard Lavigne in Shelbourne Falls, MA. was found guilty and jailed for 12 counts of child rape. For months he insisted that the accusations were part of a plot framed by a local group that had left his church.July 1992, California: "Father" J.T. Monaghan (a retired priest) was charged with taking a 7 year old Sacramento girl, who he was counseling into the kitchen for cookies where he allegedly abused her.August 1992, Indiana & Illinois: "Father" Patrick White, aldeady under indictment in the State of Indiana for his abuse of boys, was arrested in Illinois for criminal sexual assault of a minor. At the time of his arrest, law enforcement officers found Mr. White destroying snapshots of nude boys.September 1992, Massachusetts: "Father" Ron Provost was charged and found guilty to having taken photographs of -2- unclothed boys (7 to 10 years old) in his rectory in Barre, MA. in order to obtain sexual pleasure. Some of the photos were 15 years old.October 1992, New York: "'Father" Daniel Calabrese sodomized a minor in his Poughkeepsie, N.Y. rectory and was found guilty. After sentencing him to 90 days in jail, the District Attorney, William Grady reprimanded Cardinal John O'Connor for ignoring previous complaints concerning Calabrese's behavior.November 1992, Wisconsin: "Father" David Malsch was charged with taking a 14 year old boy in Wausau, Wisconsin, to a motel for two days, where he fondled him in the pool, gave him alcohol and took photos of the boy without clothes in the motel room. The boy had a learning disability,December 1992, Massachusetts & New Mexico: "Father" David Holley after being accused of molesting children in Worcester, MA. was transferred to Alamogordo, NM, to a treatment center known as the Servants of the Paraclete. In New Mexico, he allegedly molested other children.1993, California: In Santa Barbara over 30 children were molested in a seminary.1993, Illinois: Bishop Joseph Imesch of Joliet, IL, was quoted saying: "These are times that shake our faith and confidence in our most cherished systems and institutions. We hear about sexual abuse and the shattering effect it has on the victims, their families and the community. I am particularly shocked and saddened when I hear of allegations that some of our priests have committed these acts." The bishop was speaking from experience as he had recently removed six molesting priests.

I really don't think you want to go here. Recently Billy Graham's grandson said "Evangelicals 'Worse' Than Catholics on Sex Abuse". I suggest you keep your criticisms of Catholicism above the table instead of rooting around in the sewer looking for garbage.

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