OK, so according to your numbers, PWS would absorb 4k~. So let's roll with that number. 4k would give you back 1k mana with the old rapture but close enough.

New Rapture 5/5: Causes you to gain up to 2.5% of your maximum mana each time you heal with Greater Heal, Flash Heal or Penance, or damage is absorbed by your Power Word: Shield or Divine Aegis. Increasing the amount healed or absorbed increases the mana gained.

Now let's section off 2 parts of that to make it to where it only refers to PWS so you can hopefully understand it as I am:

Causes you to gain 2.5% of your maximum mana each time damage is absorbed by your Power Word: Shield.

Now pretend you are fighting a lock who has put, for the sake of argument, Siphon Life+Corruption+Curse of Agony on you. Now keep up with me, because they don't go up all at once (GCD), they don't tick all together. But you should get the point by now that you have 3 seperate dots ticking at 3 different times.

Gonna stop there because:
1) after 3 seperate ticks of dmg on your sheild you're back at the mana you used to gain from Rapture
2) You would gain more mana than you did with old rapture
3) its obvious neither of us are in beta and don't know exactly how the new talent works for sure. I'm just reading and trying to interpret. You're reading, going emo, and spewing diarrhea of the mouth.

Re: Priest Nerfs

Originally Posted by mortistangit

OK, so according to your numbers, PWS would absorb 4k~. So let's roll with that number. 4k would give you back 1k mana with the old rapture but close enough.

New Rapture 5/5: Causes you to gain up to 2.5% of your maximum mana each time you heal with Greater Heal, Flash Heal or Penance, or damage is absorbed by your Power Word: Shield or Divine Aegis. Increasing the amount healed or absorbed increases the mana gained.

Now let's section off 2 parts of that to make it to where it only refers to PWS so you can hopefully understand it as I am:

Causes you to gain 2.5% of your maximum mana each time damage is absorbed by your Power Word: Shield.

Now pretend you are fighting a lock who has put, for the sake of argument, Siphon Life+Corruption+Curse of Agony on you. Now keep up with me, because they don't go up all at once (GCD), they don't tick all together. But you should get the point by now that you have 3 seperate dots ticking at 3 different times.

Gonna stop there because:
1) after 3 seperate ticks of dmg on your sheild you're back at the mana you used to gain from Rapture
2) You would gain more mana than you did with old rapture
3) its obvious neither of us are in beta and don't know exactly how the new talent works for sure. I'm just reading and trying to interpret. You're reading, going emo, and spewing diarrhea of the mouth.

I agree with the sentiments of this post but I think there is another variable to consider. As per the blue post changes:

Rapture now causes you to gain up to 0.5/1/1.5/2/2.5% of your maximum mana each time you heal with Greater Heal, Flash Heal or Penance, or damage is absorbed by your Power Word: Shield or Divine Aegis. Increasing the amount healed or absorbed increases the mana gained.

That last sentence is interesting, it seems the amount healed or damage absorbed will have a say in how much of your max mana pool you'll receive. Perhaps some sort of coefficent or something similar to work out how much of your max mana upto 2.5% you will receive.

It's pretty hard to say black and white if this is going to amount to the same amount of mana it orginally returned but I see the reason they are doing this is to standardise the mana return abilities which work on the players max mana pool. What I would say is by leaving in a mechanic that links back to the amount healed is a bit silly as they removed the link to damage done... it's not exactly the same but i'd rather see the amount of max mana nerfed and keep the mana return static.

In any case, i expect to see a comparable rate of mana return, but your gear is going to scale that mana return to some degree.

Again Telitzp is going off without thinking things through and making statements with no numbers to back them up. Please Telitzp, if we have it all wrong could you please post the numbers from the old system to the new system and illustrate to us with evidence how it nerfs us? I suspect you're not capable of doing that however.

Re: Priest Nerfs

This Build is the greatest Bullshit posted by Blizzard since the release of the game. It´s a shame to announce it even. Aczually the shadow priest is now dead for PVE und PVP, there´s not the slightest use in the entire tree.

Discipline also dead for PVE, it´s just crap what they changed, because the spec needed a real Buff not this small mana gain...

Heal is nerfed and buffed at the same time (empovered healing), but in the end, the priest does not dominate Healmeters compared to all other heal classes, --> forget the spec in every raid.

Why? Because we have 0! Support utility as priest healers and at the same time do the same, or less healing as the others.

Finally, I hope this shit is getting reverted. If this would go life, we can do 5 man instances and heroics for the rest of our playtime with a priest.

Re: LOL @ ALL PRIEST NERFS

Divine hymn is very nice still. The healing changes were fine. Holy ain't broken and Disc looks very tempting coming from a 2k priest.

Shadow on the other hand, considering how out matched shadow casters are these days should not be getting nerfs. They do seem to want to force shadow/holy into PVE and disc into PVP.

The only good about DH atm is the healing which hopefully heals more than tranquility after spellpower. Mobs in raids will most likely be immune to the effect (they are in naxx due to being undead).

Besides that I can only say "WTF" this isn't anything but nerf on nerf to us in all areas. I really hope they got something really special cooking for us for removing so much since this is severely f'ed.

Deadrest - how "fun"? Disc atm in wotlk is pw:s on people, penance, renew. In between that a big hole since your stuff will be on cd unless you go back to the usual tricks that doesn't differ from the other priests.

"Only Jack can zip up."
The word you want to use is "have" not "of".
You may have alot of stuff in your country, but we got Lolland.

Re: Priest Nerfs

Originally Posted by mortistangit

OK, so according to your numbers, PWS would absorb 4k~. So let's roll with that number. 4k would give you back 1k mana with the old rapture but close enough.

New Rapture 5/5: Causes you to gain up to 2.5% of your maximum mana each time you heal with Greater Heal, Flash Heal or Penance, or damage is absorbed by your Power Word: Shield or Divine Aegis. Increasing the amount healed or absorbed increases the mana gained.

Now let's section off 2 parts of that to make it to where it only refers to PWS so you can hopefully understand it as I am:

Causes you to gain 2.5% of your maximum mana each time damage is absorbed by your Power Word: Shield.

Now pretend you are fighting a lock who has put, for the sake of argument, Siphon Life+Corruption+Curse of Agony on you. Now keep up with me, because they don't go up all at once (GCD), they don't tick all together. But you should get the point by now that you have 3 seperate dots ticking at 3 different times.

Gonna stop there because:
1) after 3 seperate ticks of dmg on your sheild you're back at the mana you used to gain from Rapture
2) You would gain more mana than you did with old rapture
3) its obvious neither of us are in beta and don't know exactly how the new talent works for sure. I'm just reading and trying to interpret. You're reading, going emo, and spewing diarrhea of the mouth.

This would be lovely, but doubt it would work like that. This would mean that each time a critter hits you for 1 damage and your shield is up you get 2,5% of mana back (altough the idea of having a frog hitting you for an entire boss fight for mana regen is a lot of fun ;D). What it says in the description is the following: You get up to 2,5% mana back (So the maximum you get back is 2,5%) depending on how much it absorbs. Do you shield a tank and the shield gets blown away in one hit ->2,5% mana back. The shield only gets damaged for 50% ->1,25% mana back and at the second hit the other 1,25% mana back.

Assuming you take Divine Aegis:
A 10k Greater Heal procs Divine Aegis and restored 2,5% of the amount healed back as mana. Now it restores 2,5% of your mana back depending on how much you heal. (So it could be that 2,5% mana back is only if you heal for more then 8k, making flash heals less efficiënt). A 10k heal would give a 3k divine aegis shield -> 750 mana back. Now the shield gives 2,5% of mana back. If you have 30,000 Mana then you get 750 mana back, if you have anything lower then 30,000 mana it's a nerf to you.

A 10k heal would give 1000 mana back with the old rupture, now it gives 625 mana back assuming both the heal and the shield are big enough to give the full 2,5%.

Again what you say would be nice, but the talent doesn't state "Causes you to gain 2.5% of your maximum mana each time damage is absorbed by your Power Word: Shield. ". It states you get back UPTO 2,5% mana, DEPENDING on the amount absorbed/healed.

Re: Priest Nerfs

About the changes:

Divine Hymn: Sounds really good and well done. 3 minute cooldown, affecting 10 enemies in range and no longer on hit apparently. This is what you'd imagine a Divine Hymn to be

Borrowed Time: 0,6 seconds faster shieldspamming opposed to 0,5 second faster heals after a shield. Depends on what you prefer I suppose. It makes spamming shields faster, but it makes the usual Shield+Flash heal/Penance lifesaver slower.

Renewd Hope and Enlightenment are simple nerfs.

Improved Inner Fire seems like a simple case of "Alright, alright...here are your charges....but we will take some healing bonus off of it!". Better for pvp and soloing maybe, but a nerf for healing.

IHC: I suppose we were having too much fun with this talent.

Test of Faith: Going down the Grace path. Now becomes a less noticable talent, making it more of another %booster, instead of a fun talent.

Re: Priest Nerfs

They "only" removed 15% of the added spellpower effect to improved inner fire on that one. Don't know why though the 60% added effect was said to also be on charges. So its overall a big nerf to that one now.

"Only Jack can zip up."
The word you want to use is "have" not "of".
You may have alot of stuff in your country, but we got Lolland.

Re: Priest Nerfs

still no changes with holy pvp talent GS. tbh easy solution: swap GS with penance i'm sure disci pvp will be over the roof with a GS and pve will be happy with the new holy healing ability.

51 shadow point can also be changed or maybe tune it up abit with a glyph: like make a glyph that says: Your dispersion increases your spell power by 60% for 15 sec, but does not reduce dmg taken by 60%.
this is not the best option ofc, and i'm sure many suggestions are much more powerful then this, yet there has to be a way where 51 talent point will be good and nice for pve and pvp. i'm sorry i just see 51 talent pointers as nice for pve but not that usefull and pro for pvp.

Re: Priest Nerfs

Originally Posted by Mandible

They "only" removed 15% of the added spellpower effect to improved inner fire on that one. Don't know why though the 60% added effect was said to also be on charges. So its overall a big nerf to that one now.

I thought so too as in 60% of 20 charges = 12 extra charges. So the talent would be a 60% boost to the spellpower and 12 extra charges. If it did that means the only thing that changed is the spellpower on it. Still 12 extra charges, but +45% spellpower instead of 60% -> 15% nerf overall. So guess they figured the charges are fine but the extra 10-20 spellpower would be too overpowered.... :S

@meowmeow Disc is going to be a healing tree now, no longer a pvp tree.

Re: Priest Nerfs

Originally Posted by Mandible

They "only" removed 15% of the added spellpower effect to improved inner fire on that one. Don't know why though the 60% added effect was said to also be on charges. So its overall a big nerf to that one now.

Re: Priest Nerfs

Originally Posted by Pristi

@meowmeow Disc is going to be a healing tree now, no longer a pvp tree.

yes i also healed kara as disci

yet holy has always been the end gaming pve tree, and i don't see a reason why i need to gimp myself for a stupid absording system and not be able to heal properly (but absord) or to heal raid. tbh with all the respect to koraa and the kara raiders, rly, read around ask the end game healers and they will tell you: holy will stay the better pve healer tree and discipline MT healing is... i blieve atleast, in order to aprove for a priest to heal like a paladin, yet paladin will still provide higher hps.
if you don't understand why hps is important in pve stay in your kara raid, in your arena team and let us talk for our selves.
i can never see how you heal a MT with 8.5k crits that consumopes a pathetic sheild over a 15k crit and the ability to heal raid.
l2p issues good, read around and see, more END GAME PVERs are dissapointed from this discipline is pve specc for MT shit healing crap, because it goes agaist the idea of being a priest and healing like a priest.

Re: Priest Nerfs

Originally Posted by meowmeow

yes i also healed kara as disci

yet holy has always been the end gaming pve tree, and i don't see a reason why i need to gimp myself for a stupid absording system and not be able to heal properly (but absord) or to heal raid. tbh with all the respect to koraa and the kara raiders, rly, read around ask the end game healers and they will tell you: holy will stay the better pve healer tree and discipline MT healing is... i blieve atleast, in order to aprove for a priest to heal like a paladin, yet paladin will still provide higher hps.
if you don't understand why hps is important in pve stay in your kara raid, in your arena team and let us talk for our selves.
i can never see how you heal a MT with 8.5k crits that consumopes a pathetic sheild over a 15k crit and the ability to heal raid.
l2p issues good, read around and see, more END GAME PVERs are dissapointed from this discipline is pve specc for MT shit healing crap, because it goes agaist the idea of being a priest and healing like a priest.

What you say is pretty much irrelevant. Blizzard decided that Discipline should be a PvE MT healing tree, and that is what they are building the talents around now. Whether they succeeded in this or not is besides the point, since they won't simply change their idea and turn disc into a PvP tree again. Most people are disappointed in the way this has been done yes, so am I. I don't see holy as an incredible tree either, but atleast it boost our heals and gives us raid healing tools. Discipline quite simply lacks raidhealing, so in order to make up for that it needs, imo, strong single target healing to compete. The talents for strong/cheaper heals are however in the Holy Tree.

EDIT: About the "stupid absorbing system" I completely disagree though. Keeping a tank topped off is important, and what better way is there to keep a tank topped of than to shield him? I personally think the whole idea of a "Preventer" (Grace, Divine Aegis, Shields, Pain Supression) instead of a real healer is a lot of fun and different from the other regular healing roles. It's just a pity that it has been so poorly designed.

Re: LOL @ ALL PRIEST NERFS

But as you just said, your interest in playing Priest was just KILLED. And not the other class. GG

You just realized that Blizzard put such a powerful Tool in the Ret Tree, that many people consider going 38/0/33 for a HEALING specc? Ya, holy Paladins got buffed. Also BoK got changed from being a 1 Point Tier 3 Talent to a 5 Point Tier 1 Talent. Bestest buff evar.

Re: Priest Nerfs

i didn't say i'm dissapionted from holy tree
on the oposite, besides Gaurdian spirit, after raiding as 80 Holy (holy with ids), made me know for fact holy > disci
(and we both MT healed i was more important the the disci "stupid" absord system since, as it works in pve: i healed more, IHC proc 1 sec cast gheal, my gheal crited for around 15k-16K with grace, saved a tank multiple times over the 3k-4k absording sheild)
in additional the fact that the disci MT healer didn't have CoH, and my mana afficientcy was alot better, call it game style - i don't see a reason why a priest should come raiding as discipline and spam one button on MT (Gheal for example) especially since it was never a priest style play and because paladins will do it so so much more better.
yes discipline will be a nice replacement for the paladin MT healer yet... to my ACCTUAL CHECK ON BETA PREMADE CHARR RAID holy is powerfull strong PVE healer, much much more the the pvp discipline tree. the only dissapointment i have is that my 51 talent point is acctually Improved divine spirit since i don't really think i'll go with Gaurdian spirit to a raid, i find it really dissapionting for raiding and really OP for pvp, 5 mans (i think this point has been chewed already).