Look, here’s the situation:
The Giants need a bat, and ideally more than one, for the present and future. Like all other GMs, Brian Sabean is beginning his “due diligence” of finding out who might be available and what the relative cost would be, while simultaneously completing an internal review of players he might be willing to trade, etc.

This is a complicated process. Believe it or not, people within the Giants front office disagree on many things. (Shudder to think, but there was a minority who wanted to do the Lincecum-for-Rios deal.)

So with that in mind, here’s the genesis of the Cain paragraph:

I talked to someone of influence in the Giants organization who said that coaches had been concerned about the degradation of Cain’s stuff this spring. They were aware of his shrinking strikeout rate and his still-high walk rate. Has Cain pitched well this season? Of course he has. But the theory was that his relative trade value might be higher than ever right now, and the Giants might be open to sacrificing him if there is the opportunity to acquire the offensive difference-maker(s) that they so badly need.

We’re not talking about an impending free agent like Nick Johnson here. We’re talking about a player with similar service-time attributes as Cain, which means someone who can anchor the lineup in 2010 and beyond. Very few players in the majors fit that description. And those guys usually aren’t traded, either.

Back up a second and look at the Giants’ organizational inventory. Buster Posey, Angel Villalona, Brandon Crawford, Thomas Neal, etc., could be future thumpers. But they probably won’t appear in the major leagues this season. Most won’t be in the 2010 lineup, either. And if they are, they’ll be rookies. They won’t be prepared to carry a playoff-caliber lineup.

Well, there’s the free-agent market. But there won’t be many choices out there. And besides, the Giants have already learned their lesson in recent years: To get a premium hitter to sign, they need to overpay to ridiculous lengths. Nobody wants to hit at AT&T Park. Nobody. (Well, one guy. But he’s off hunting water buffalo with Ryan Klesko.)

So you look at a Giants system with Madison Bumgarner and Tim Alderson on the fast track. You see Cain, who has a very affordable contract in 2010 and an option in 2011. And you wonder: without adding a significant offensive piece, can the team really hope to be a legit contender before Cain becomes an expensive free agent?

Now you’re getting a flavor for the long-running internal debate.

Don’t get the wrong impression on Cain, though. The Giants aren’t down on him. They recognize he’s a special talent. He’s younger than Tim Lincecum and he’s got the build that suggests he’ll be a durable presence in a major league rotation for years to come.

Cain has incredible value – probably as much as Dan Haren when the A’s dealt him. The Giants will not be seeking a Haren-type deal for prospects, though. (See “similar service-time attributes” above.)

Will a trade come along to provide fair value for Cain? I don’t see it happening. And no, Dan Uggla is not fair value.

But some in the front office believe the Giants owe it to themselves to see what Cain could bring back. What if the Orioles offer a package with Adam Jones? What if the Dodgers build an offer around Matt Kemp? What if the pitching-starved Phillies offered Pedro Feliz?

Just seeing if you’re paying attention on that last one.

Point is, you don’t know what might happen. That’s why you listen.

Hopefully this gives you a clearer picture of where the internal conversation stands. It’s kind of hard to translate all that into two paragraphs on deadline, and perhaps I could have been a little more precise in my language. But there were no inaccuracies in what I wrote and I stand behind it.

At the least, I hope you understand that the situation outlined above is quite a different picture than Matt Cain sitting glumly in a shopping cart with a box of Uncle Ben’s and a dozen Grade AAs.

—
One more bit of trade perspective: Baseball trades can be unpredictable, but the calendar seldom is. This is May. It’s very rare for deals of any kind to be consummated this time of year, especially for guy like Uggla who won’t be a free agent this winter.

So for now, relax and enjoy the games, everyone.

Andrew Baggarly

Andrew Baggarly has documented the most eventful era in San Francisco Giants baseball history, having covered the team since 2004 for th​ree major media outlets including the San Jose Mercury News and the Oakland Tribune​. This is his 20th season as a baseball writer.
​Baggarly is the author of the bestselling book, A Band of Misfits: Tales of the 2010 San Francisco Giants, and the newly published Giant Splash: Bondsian Blasts, World Series Parades and Other Thrilling Moments By the Bay. Baggarly’s other notable life accomplishments include running as the Bratwurst in the Milwaukee Sausage Race and becoming a three-time Jeopardy! champion.

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Thanks Baggs for doing such an outstanding job, and going to great lengths to educate us unwashed masses 🙂

kvdp

I really like the break down. and appreciate it.

Ricky

Nice work Baggs

55saveslives

PEDRO FELIZ?? >:(

Joe

Why would the Giants bad mouse their own player to the media? Whoever did the bad mouthing should be fired on the spot.

Harold S

Great entry, Baggs. I think this was your lesson of caution on the power of instant news – call it your version of poor Schulman’s blog entry on Brian Wilson’s Twittering. With the death of the newspaper industry, there are now so few of you out there who properly follow the teams that once you blog something it gets amplified beyond belief. But don’t let such amplification discourage you from doing so in the future, since yours is the best source for news on this team out there. Thanks again for your hard work!

Kevin

I agree with everything. The major problem is nobody is going to trade a young bat that has equal value to Cain.. Alex Rios from the Blue Jays would be the only one that jumps out to me.

doug

feliz and taschner sound like a pretty fair combo for cain

M

Totally agree about trading Cain. The Giants need to be concerned that Lincecum is now pitching in his prime and we are not contending or helping him. In a couple years, he will have to think about leaving if the Giants don’t drastically improve their lineup. We have too many young pitchers – maybe our team just scouts and develops them better. We have to trade from our strength and try to get a hitter.

I don’t think there’s anyway the O’s will give up Jones though. But how about Markakis?

nostocksjustbonds

Thanks for clarifying, Andy. You have a lot of credibility with knowledgeable Giants fans for good reason.

totalfan62

Nice work, Baggs. As always, spot on. This gives us all a much better perspective on the Matt Cain situation.

IMO, we should not make ANY trade in mid-season 2009. Our 2009 team is not a serious contender for the playoffs, and even if we sneaked in as wild-card we wouldn’t get past the first round. Take a good look at these players, give them better coaching, and re-evaluate in the off-season. We will also have the benefit of a full year of minor league experience for the “organizational inventory”.

Also, start now the search for new manager for 2010, and possibly new GM as well. Sabean and Bochy’s time has passed.

Ken

Maybe you need a different source within the Giants. If the guys you’re talking to wanted to trade Lincecum for Rios and want to trade Cain because his stuff is degrading (WTF?) they are not good sources. Hopefully those guys are not in a position of any power within the organization.

Woody

Thanks, AB. great update! Outside of Tim, I would think the Giants would listen to ANY offer. They’re certainly better than last year but still have quite a ways to go to be in that perennial contender group. Just as an aside…I love minor league baseball (and the parks). I’ve watched the SJ Giants play about a dozen times this season in several different places. Not ONCE did I ever walk away from the game thinking the Giants had the best prospect on the field that night.
Posey, Villalona, Gillaspie are not going to be at AT&T anytime soon. All of this talk about these kids playing a big role in 2010 or 2011 is nonsense.
The Giants are going to have to add a premium hitter thru trade. We’re going to hear a lot more about Matt Cain before July 31.
Pedro Feliz? Watch how opposing pitchers pitch Villalona now as compared to the beginning of the season. Breaking ball away….more away…and really away (all of them in the dirt). That kid loves to swing and if he doesn’t adapt he won’t make it to AT&T before September…in ANY year!

I think you’ve proven you’re more than reasonable/credible when it comes to reporting stuff off the rumor mill.

Cains has been the subject of trade rumors for a while now anyway…

scurryn

Thanks Baggs — it has made me mad every time a bay area journalist or talkshow host reported that you said that the front office was looking to TRADE Cain, as opposed to trying to figure out his VALUE.

Two different things.

Keep up the good work.

Kevin

Before Sabean or Bochy. Lansford needs to go.

thevaultsky

Baggs, i hope the matt kemp possibility is in the same vein as the feliz comment. No way would I want to see Cain in a dodgers uniform and the same goes for kemp wearing orange and black. Kemp is the worst player, mentally and attitude wise on the dodgers roster. He would be an impending headache. If we could adam jones and package rowand in the deal, I would jump on that in a second.

mike w

Terrific piece, AB. There should only be 3 “untouchables” in the whole org – Tim, Buster, and Bumgarden. Part of Sabean’s strategy has been to stockpile young pitching so that many of the arms could be used as trade bait.

Btw, couldn’t we have used some of that Howry-Affeldt-Renteria money on bat like Abreu or Ibanez?

DauberDown

Unfortunately, the Dodgers are going to be strong for quite a while. Hopefully the Giants prospects mentioned in the blog will begin to peak around the time the Dodgers start falling apart as their good players become FAs and leave.

Duke

There was a night game last September when the DBacks were still in the hunt. Adam Dunn crushed two different balls to right field. Both would have been way way out of any ballpark in the majors, and both were knocked down by the wind and turned into long outs.

I remember him slamming his helmet to the ground in frustration after the second one. He was pissed.

That’s why hitters demand top dollar and/or extra years in order to come here and that’s why the Giants should focus on developing speed guys who hit for high average rather than seeking some phantom masher. Bonds made it look ridiculously easy but it was an aberration.

Spotter

Thanks, much, for the clarification, noting, and explaining. As for “reading comprehension” – I always remember how a student summed up Hamlet: Danish Prince dies. [uh, yeah, but … ]

Jordan

As a Rangers fan, I’m getting tired of seeing the stikeouts. How about Hank Blalock or Chris Davis?

Trading Matt Kemp for Matt Cain, whom the Dodgers neither need nor want, would be pretty dumb. Kemp is a budding superstar, Cain an out-of-control thrower with a worse W-L record than Barry Zito during his time with the team.

jct

I know WBB! W-L records are sooo important! Just look at last year, that Johan santana dude had only 16 wins. Clearly he is 3/4 the pitcher Webb is. Gosh look at this year again. Matt Palmer, who came into last week’s game 5-0, is clearly an all star and should have been signed for 10M a year instead of letting go by the giants.

And man that Jordan Zimermann guy for Washington. He’s just straight up terrible.

God you make so many good points in one post, it’s hard to imagine why you don’t have your own column and fanblog. We can all learn so much from you!

Adam Jones is too sexy to be traded. We have plenty of pitching in the pipeline, even more so than the Giants, so that wouldn’t really make sense. Anyway, the time spent physically traveling to a new team would be a waste, as that’s time better spent hitting 5 home runs or something.

johnfromnj

At least Sabean didn’t chew you out in his hotel room this time.

johnfromnj

or did he?

UVHaight

Why not hire the reason the Dodgers “will be good for a long time,” Paul Depodesta?

Kyle

Great reporting. We’ve come to expect it from you – I think you’re my favorite Giants voice in the media.

That being said, what do you see the team doing and/or what do you think the team ought to do?

Niko from Marin

Sabaen should talk to Texas they have alot young hitters we can get in back from Cain…

Niko from Marin

Straight up; Jay Bruce for Cain ——– Sanchez for Uggla

Matt

So by ‘equal service time’ do you mean a guy that will be a free agent after the 2010 or 2011 season like Cain or a guy like a Matt LaPorta?

Kind of ‘joked’ about this idea with a buddy….but what about Cain for Victor Martinez? Gives you a solid 1B for the next 2 years and a guy that can backup up Molina this year well and start next year when he’s a free agent. A great link to Posey as well. Under contract next year for $7M….so one year shorter than Cain’s deal.

Probably a no go cause of age…..but Martinez when healthy has shown he’s a .300-310 hitter that’ll hit 20 HRs and knock in 100 runs. Great middle of the order bat.

Maybe something happens. Maybe not. So the notion that the Giants would use Matt Cain as bait is much like the Cardinals use Albert Pujols as bait … for the right return. If someone is dumb enough to offer a starting pitcher, an all-star hitter and three prospect for Pujols, the Cardinals would be dumb not to consider it. And it would be worth the Giants’ time to see what could come for Cain.

sabean sucks

JCT,

Name me a great free agent Sabean has signed, or his last great trade.

jct

Sabean Sucks :

Bullpen overhaul in 2009 including : Jeremy Affeldt, Brandon Medders, Justin Miller. If you want to crucify Sabean for signing expensive free agents (most attributes the zito signing to McGowen, not Sabean), you have to give him credit for identifying gems from the scrap heap.

The only real bad trades in my opinion were the Joe Nathan Trade (of course, we all know how that one turned out) and Shairon Martis for Mike Stanton. At that time, martis was nothing special with a lot of control problem, and the Nathan Trade was quite even at the time of trade. A middle reliever, an oft-injured minor leaguer, and a back end of the rotation starter for an all star catcher, a position of need. It wasn’t only that Nathan was great after we traded him, it was AJ being such an dip$^#& after we got him that made that trade look seriously lop-sided.

You can look at the Jeremy Accardo deal as bad. I agree. I didn’t get that oen either, but honestly those are not trades that cripple a franchise.

sabean sucks

No SF Giants team has EVER had 5 losing seasons in a row. More than anything else aren’t you judged on wins & losses? I used to be a Sabean fan when he got Schmidt, Snow & Burks he was doing great in my opinion too. What he forgot, was to have a plan for when Bonds left. You can’t go over a whole GM career & never develope a good hitter. That’s great he has some minor league players that are two years away, but that’s too late. Again, he deserved the kudos when the Giants were winning & deserves the criticism when they are losing. If he hadn’t inherited Bonds how good would his teams have been?

jct

It doesn’t work that way. Look at the draft. Up until 2006, the organizational philosophy is to Win Now, Forget about Tomorrow. Sign Michael Tucker and forfeit first round draft choice money. Win with Bonds.

That plan didn’t work in 2005 and 2006, and there was a change in direction. The organization made a decision to emphasize latin america scouting, amateur scouting, build from within, and stop signing type A free agents.

What happened in those years? The Giants went all in (and crashed) trying to win with Bonds. it didn’t happen. Part of it is Sabean’s fault, part of it is management, a lot of it is players not performing. You cannot hang all of this on Sabean.

This team is now clearly building for the future. Included in there is Villalona, Sandoval, Raphael Rodriguez, all out of international scouting.

The point I’m trying to make is, Sabean could have tried to managed to save his job. He didn’t do that. He stayed with the program, took all the criticism, and built this franchise from the grounds up. The reason why there are 4 losing seasons in a row is because of the radical shift in direction from SIGN EVERY TYPE A OMG FREEAGENTS to signing high upside high school / international players and keeping 1st round picks.

Sabean deserves to see this transformation through. He is the organizational scapegoat right now, and I think it is the wrong decision to change the helm because fans are impatient with a building process.

If there was a time to fire sabean, it was at the end of 2006. Now that he’s had two years to rebuild this franchise since then and has done a good job in my estimation, he doesn’t deserve to be fired. I make mistakes in my job two years ago and got a pass, I shouldn’t be fired today for the mistakes I made 2 years ago if I have been performing well.

So it’s Sabean’s fault that Bonds hit his knee and injured it so severely that he couldn’t play much in the 2005 season? We had just come off a 91 win season, picked up Matheny, Vizquel, and Alou, and if not for that, would have had a winning season that year, as we were only 7 wins away from winning record, you don’t think having Bonds for 140 games instead of the 14 games he did play wouldn’t have made that much of a difference that year?

Also, if you look at most rebuilding that teams have gone through, most went through at least 5 years of losses to get the picks they needed to get the talent to rebuild. When you are winning, the odds of a back of a first round draft pick becoming good is about 10%, according to research I did on the draft, which means you get one good player every 7-10 years with that first round pick, when you are winning.

The Braves went through 6 excruciating seasons to get the high overall picks that finally netted them Chipper Jones, and fueled 17 years of playoffs. If Braves fans back then were like Giants fans today, Cox would have been fired before he got to finish his job rebuilding the Braves. It takes an extended period of losing, typically, to rebuild, to get the high overall draft picks that improve your odds of finding a good player roughly four times.

The Giants are in good shape. Who made them like that? Sabean. And trading is not like signing free agents. Often, Sabean got the best guy on the market for the position of need; they just didn’t work out. But other did work out, like Grissom, like Benito Santiago, like Omar Vizquel. You might not like Edgardo Alfonzo, but the alternatives then were David Bell or using Feliz, an untested rookie with horrendous hitting problems (that he still hasn’t solved and probably will never solve).

dcgiant

I agree with JCT’s assessment about trades and drafting. Sabean and the amatuer scouting staff have done a good job with the draft and the international signings. Its refreshing that they are starting to pay for some of the latin players like villalona and rodriguez.

What is not part of this assessment is the FA contracts? The contracts for Zito and Rowand are killing this team. You can’t rebuild a team with these guys on this team or Renteria for that matter…

Giants YES Sabean NO

I find it humorous watching some of you guys defend Brian Sabean. The facts are these:
1) The Giants have had 5 losing seasons in a row and are drafting in the top 10 every year because of that.

2) The Giants have failed to win a title under Sabeans regime despite having the greatest hitter of our generation.

3) The Giants under Sabean have not drafted and developed even ONE position player that has produced at the Major League level for them.

4) Sabean has failed miserably when it comes to Free Agent Signings. Why? Because he was a poor judge of talent, overvalued guys who had 1 decent year (Rowand), and had nothing in the minors so had to overpay for mediocre talent.

5) Sabean has failed to make any impact trade in many years. He started off well getting Kent and Schmidt. What the hell has he done in recent years? Matt Morris? That is funny that he got 1 idiot from Pitt to take the contract who got himself fired because of the deal.

6) Sabean made one of the worst deals ever giving up Nathan and Liriiano for a catcher who could walk in free agency the next year. HORRIBLE. He should have been held accountable for this stupidity.

If you are honestly evaluating Brian Sabean over the length of his stay in SF you cannot give the guy a passing grade given these facts. If you are.. then you are just biased and not giving honest evaluations.

Trades D at best
Draft D at best ( and was an F up until 2 years ago)
Free Agency F – this cannot even be debated

Now.. does the team finally have some talent in the minors? Yes. That is encouraging. However, a couple of years of drafts do NOT override all his other failures in my opinion.

jct

Giants YES Sabean No :

I already wrote every counter point that is needed. When a GM makes that many decisions there are those that will work out and those that will not work out. You are voicing your frustration with the D, D, F grades, that’s fine. You have your opinion.

If the Orioles come calling, the only hitter in Baltimore worth talking about isn’t Adam Jones…it’s Nick Markakis!

Giants YES Sabean NO

JCT,
That article is laughable. First of all I could care less about Billy Beane. This is about Brian Sabean and his failures. Secondly, that article was written in January and talks about the wonderful signings of Renteria (WHere Sabean WAY overpaid at 9 million per year) and Bobby Howry who is horrid. He also talks about Crede and Manny who last I checked were playing elsewhere.

I stand by everything I wrote and your counter points are obviously biased. Whether you like it or not.. Sabean has completely failed over the past 10 years with his FA signings and trades. While he has done well the past couple of years in the draft, the failure to draft impact position players over the past 12 years has left the team where it is today. The lineup on the field is pathetic especially when they go on the road. Are you sure you aren’t Brian Sabean’s PR guy?

Giants YES Sabean NO

Brandon,
You obviously dont follow baseball that closely if you do not think Adam Jones would be worth talking about. He was a top prospect that Seattle traded to get Eric Bedard ( and I’m sure regret that every day) and will now be an all star this year for the AL. Markakis is great but Jones would be high on my list. Young productive outfielders with power and speed are not easy to find and he is right at the top.

jct

You stand by everything you write and my counter points are obviously biased?

Wow, just wow.

For all the talk of failure to draft a position player, this system has turned out some pretty outstanding pitchers over the years. Sure, just gloss over that and ignore everything else, and I am the one that is obviously biased?

I have nothing to gain from defending Brian Sabean. I don’t even mind him being replaced at the end of the year. I do, however, fear that we will get somebody that is inferior to Sabean just to appease the unwashed masses.

Like I said, the time to fire Sabean is 2006. You have to look at the post 2007 Sabean and evaluate from that point on. Don’t drag the garbage of the end of Bonds era into this discussion.

If you are so inclined to replace Brian Sabean, please tell me who you would like to replace him WITH, and the track record of that person. Please also let me know if he is willing to work in San Francisco. Until then, I feel much more comfortable with the post 2007 Sabean approach, for it fits with the winning formula that I envisioned when the Giants organization touted “rebuilding” in front of the fans.

They are rebuilding the right way, and I’m happy about it. If you are not, that is your prerogative and I’m sorry for your misery. I hope rambling on these message boards have made you feel better.

Giants YES Sabean NO

JCT,
No offense but your posts are not rambling??? LOL

You say our drafts have put out some pretty outstanding pitching. OK.. Lincecum, Cain,.. hmmmmm . Jesse Foppert? Jerome Williams? Kurt Ainsworth? Jason Grilli? Brad Hennessey? Show me all of those great pitchers that have played in the majors and done great that Sabean drafted other than Lincy and Cain. (Sanchez is ok.. give u him too)

The record does not show that the Giants drafted and developed all these great pitchers like you claim. What the record does show is the Giants did not draft even ONE position player during Sabeans time that has been a real player in the majors. NOT ONE. Now.. if all those pitching prospects that you talked about resulted in trades for great hitters I would agree with you that Sabean did a good job. Unfortunatley for your arguement – that isnt the case.

As far as someone being inferior to Sabean.. well I would take my chances. I never claimed to know all of the major league executives out there. I do feel confident that there is someone out there that can do a better job however.

Do you REALLY trust Sabean to make great trades and make smart FA signings? I dont because his track record doesnt demonstrate it.

jct

For some reason, my reply won’t show up here. That’s weird. I’ll try it this by posting on another board.

JCT.. You are so funny trying to use someone else’s thoughts as some proof that you are right. Again.. look at the facts. These are just guys the Giants could have had in the first 3 rounds of the draft but instead took those “outstanding” pitchers you think so highly of.

I’m pretty much thinking that SABEAN SUCKED during all these years in his drafts. Maybe you like them but most sane people wouldnt.

jct

Um I don’t think you understand this concept. First of all, I AM Mise that posted on PSD daily, you can check the profile. The profile will say I am JCT or jctGamer on McCovey Chronicles.

Secondly, how many of those players are drafted within 20 slots of the Giants?

You can’t go down a couple of rounds and then say SEE THE GIANTS SHOULD HAVE DRAFTED HIM. It doesn’t work that way. That means when the Giants were drafting, the said player is not of the right slot value in that round. If every team in the MLB passed on that guy at least once, then clearly he was not pegged as first round talent.

To put it plainly, if you want to blame Sabean for passing on the said player, 31 other GMs passed on the said player at least once.

Again, this goes for player development, not player scouting. If 24 other teams passed on Matt Cain, should their GMs be fired too? 9 GMs passed on Lincecum, clearly all of them should be out of a job.

Your assertion of Sabean’s grade being a straight F for free agent just examplifies the your lack of knowledge and the fact that you underestimate relief pitching and its value to the major league franchise. Jeremy Affeldt, Justin Miller, Brandon Medders are all excellent, excellent signings this off season. The Yankees would kill to have them right now.

But to you, that’s worth a resounding F. And it is not even up for debate. That’s your own words, not mine.

That is a complete lack of knowledge in the way real baseball works. This is not fantasy baseball. This is real baseball.

Lars

We are all Pedro Feliz.

Giants YES Sabean NO

OK JTC.. lets look at the drafts using your logic of within 20 spots since this is your critieria. Again, it just shows both Sabean’s poor record as well as yours in trying to support him:

It is just a pathetic record. One more thing. You seem fixated on round 1. The MLB draft is 50 rounds. Other teams certainly were able to land Justin Morneaus of the world in later rounds. Where is all of Sabean’s successes in ANY round during these years???? Why were other teams able to find gems and the Giants couldnt.

Finally.. you are just lame if you really are trying to justify Sabean’s free agent record over 12 years with this years signing of middle relievers. I see you conveniently left off Howry who has been a bust so far. OK.. I’m sorry Justin Miller and Brian Medders signings give Sabean an A+ for his record as GM. You do you even know how crazy you sound???

You have to be Sabean’s PR guy or his kid because seriously NO ONE ELSE would be this whacked when it comes to evaluating his record.

jct

I never said I give Sabean A+. You are the one that gave him an F for free agent signings. Am I correct to assume that the only way he makes a straight F failing grade is if you do not value relief pitching at all? Not even an ounce? zilch, zip, nada, however you want to call it?

Player development is not the GM’s job. The Giants lack of position players is mostly due to in ability to develop later draft picks (which are crap shoots, anybody can tell you that).

What I am trying to illustrate is that with the first round picks, the Giants have chosen to not select a college bat in that position because the “sure fire safe pick” such as Utley and Hamilton are long gone by the time the picks are made. If youa re arguing a player like, say Grady Sizemore at 75 should have been drafted by the Giants, then 31 other GM have had the chance to make that pick.

What do you make of the 2002 draft? Matt Cain #25 is a lot better than a ton of the players selected prior to him (or behind him). that’s the thing with selecting high upside highschool pitchers. Sometimes you hit a home run, most times you strike out.

It’s really useless to argue with you because you have your mind set and wants to crucify Sabean for the failuare of the Giants the last 2 years. Your inability to see through the difference in 2007 Sabean and 2006 Sabean is the key point at play here. You want to get rid of him for mistakes made in the past regardless of present performances.

It’s fine, I hope you find salvation in these message boards. The way Sabean is conducting his business this year tells me he is not managing to trying to save his job. He is building the franchise.

That is just fine with me, and I’m more than happy to accept him returning at the end of the year.

lastly I am not Sabean’s PR guy. Who do you take me for, the Warriors? trace this IP if the webmaster so incline. I am just your every day average fan living in Silicon Valley working a boring engineering job.

jct

To further clarify a point I made previously, I am not even that keen on Sabean returning. I have no problem if he was replaced, but the record needs to be straight.

Brian Sabean was not a D,D,F level GM. If you want to part ways because you want a different direction within organizational player development, or want a different philosophy, that is fine. Show me who that new person is and why he is better. I might even agree with you.

But to throw him under the bus, crucify him, mis evaluate the job he has done and just blame him for why the Giants have failed is absolutely unfair and I cannot support that kind of notion. He has tried his best to help this club build for the future. I am ok with the job he is doing the last 2 years.

Giants YES Sabean NO

I was having so much fun proving to you how pathetic his record is as a GM I thought I would just go back 2 more years from when he started with the Giants:

1998 Giants select the incredible Tony Torcato (19)
Giants pass on the local kid.. remember the name Sabathia (20)

I think this is so fricking funny looking back at all the years and all the picks. It truly is even worse than I remembered. He is to blame for the Giants failures. His recent couple of years are much better but none of them have showed anything yet in the big leagues. I think several of them will be good but we shall see.

You say the failure of lack of position players is someone else’s fault because they weren’t developed properly. That might be somewhat true but you cant get water out of a rock. If you draft crappy players then most likely they will always be crappy players and not make it. And.. yes he is responsible for everything that goes on as GM. The buck stops with him.

The bottom line ( and then I think this needs to end) is that Sabean has truly failed in signing free agents and overpaying guys who were busts, has failed in making any impact deals for many years, and drafted so poorly for the vast majority of his tenure here that the team has no position players on the team now or immediatley ready to come up and produce that are worth a damn.

His record ( and the Giants record) speaks for itself. EPIC FAILURE! He was given the best player of our generation and he failed to put the talent around it to consistently win championships. He basically allowed other teams to take Bonds out of so many games because he wouldnt go get hitters to protect him. He failed to recognize the value of developing your own hitters.

Now.. its 2009 and the Giants still field a lineup that is a joke. Will they be better in 2011 or 2012? Lets fricking hope so. I, for one, am sick and tired of watching mediocrity.

Anonymous

You didn’t use the word ‘dangling’ in reference to cain this time.

sabean sucks

Sabean should be fired because a GM is judged on wins & losses & this could be a record 5th losing season. You want a name for GM…Logan White.

sabean sucks

Before we go overboard with Sabean not having a first round draft choice for two years let’s remember since he took over he has had 26 first round & first round supplemental drafts picks. That’s more than most GM’s have had.

Fire Billy Beane

Because a GM is judged on wins and losses.

sabean sucks

I wasn’t aware Billy has had four losing seasons in a row. With the A’s having a shoestring payroll compared to the Giants I would love to have a poll of MLB people say who they would rather have & I think you know the answer. Now don’t get me wrong, I think Bonds is one of the all time jerks, but Sabean inherited the best player in the game for his time. Do you think if the A’s bought Pujols for Billy, he could win more games?

Brian

The Pedro throw in made me laugh out loud! Thanks Baggs, you do a great job.

Sam

In my opinion….if the Giants would have signed Vladdie to hit behind Bonds, they would have a world series ring…but i guess hindsight and speculation won’t help at all now… All of the suffering that us true giants fans are enduring right now will only make it sweeter when we are celebrating at a future world series parade along the embarcadero… Until than, i will continue to dream about that day!

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