I would like to have a local artist come up with a unique logo for the event, submit your logo to me via a PM. I will pay for the one chosen.....

More information to come, but initially I am going to be the TD for NT side and Rick may do the Am Side of the event. The NT side will include all PRO divisions this year (not have a separate "A" Tier for Masters et al) and will probably include only 4 rounds of golf this year for them. Looking at "Big" Blue Valley Day 1, WW & Cliff Day 2, and Swope Gold Day 3 initially for these divisions. More information to follow but I thought with the elections and the meeting tomorrow night, if you have any ideas questions, or ways to make the event better than this past year, please be prepared to bring them forward.

It takes our entire community to make this event work, and we need your help. Just because my name is listed as the TD, it doesn't mean that I can do it all. I want/need your input, and would love to have it.

I will be working on the Wide Open information coming out soon. So if you want to be a part of the staff for the event, and are wondering whom to contact, please reach out to me accordingly with a PM or a phone call. You know that thing that you type messages into called your twitter box, it too may be used to input numbers in a fashion that will enable you to use it for communication of your vocal chords and sound waves received via your ear. Think old walkie talkies, they are called phones!

no duh, bag tags gotta be cool and sexy if you're gonna buy one from out of town. kcwo could use a really derrty bird tag - yeah i'm talkin t n a, skulls and hemp<all numbered foretwenty> - the sheetdatsells. more of a souvenir than a numbered tag.

I just got signed up, but, had to find the link to get that way by coming here to the forum. The link on the http://www.pdga.com/tournament_results/99312 (http://www.pdga.com/tournament_results/99312) site to get signed up only takes you to the www.kcfdc.org (http://www.kcfdc.org) site, and not to the www.kcwideopen.com (http://www.kcwideopen.com) site. Just an FYI/heads up for ya'...giggity 8)

so it looks like nt and a tier again? please consider scheduling the age rejected pro divisions with the younger pros. last year was ridiculous waiting no less than 5 minutes on EVERY hole, more than 30 on some. it got so bad we started carrying full size lawn chairs at swope on saturday. refresh my memory, how many other nt events shuffled the old folks off to the next lower tier?

so it looks like nt and a tier again? please consider scheduling the age rejected pro divisions with the younger pros. last year was ridiculous waiting no less than 5 minutes on EVERY hole, more than 30 on some. it got so bad we started carrying full size lawn chairs at swope on saturday. refresh my memory, how many other nt events shuffled the old folks off to the next lower tier?

Actually I believe it will be NT, A & B again. You are right we should be Lemmings and just follow the lead of everyone else. Or you could check out the history of the Wide Open on the front page of the web site and realize that this might just be another innovation started in KC and soon everyone will be following us again. Did you talk to the official on the course about the pace of play at the time or are you just complaining because the tournament didn't cater to YOU?

Actually I believe it will be NT, A & B again. You are right we should be Lemmings and just follow the lead of everyone else. Or you could check out the history of the Wide Open on the front page of the web site and realize that this might just be another innovation started in KC and soon everyone will be following us again. Did you talk to the official on the course about the pace of play at the time or are you just complaining because the tournament didn't cater to YOU?

been here since the first wde open and then some. the course officials were as aware of it as the players. I don't expect anybody to carer to ME; rarely cater to myself. while we're patiently waiting for the rest of the disc golf world to catch up I'll continue to pack the lawn chair and some extra depends.

allow me to rephrase: being fully aware and appreciative that we don't all play at the same speed, rules notwithstanding, please consider scheduling the age rejected pro divisions with those of comparable playing tempos.

allow me to rephrase: being fully aware and appreciative that we don't all play at the same speed, rules notwithstanding, please consider scheduling the age rejected pro divisions with those of comparable playing tempos.

What other division has a similar pace of play?

Not trying to be rude, I'm just curious who you had in mind that would be a more comfortable match.

ummm... pros?neither is rudeness my intent. last year 72 played nt, 37 masters plus played a tier. hopefully this year will be different. I've been playing disc golf awhile, never had waits like last year. just asking why it's set up this way, haven't really gotten an answer. only have 20 years of golf left in me, guess I'll play open until the rest of the tour sees the light and starts doing things the kcwo way.

ummm... pros?neither is rudeness my intent. last year 72 played nt, 37 masters plus played nt. hopefully this year will be different. I've been playing disc golf awhile, never had waits like last year. just asking why it's set up this way, haven't really gotten an answer. only have 20 years of golf left in me, guess I'll play open until the rest of the tour sees the light and starts doing things the kcwo way.

My thought would be that the Open Divisions (Men and Women) have enough registered such that there isn't room on the course for the Age-Protected Pro Divisions as well. But I'm not sure, that's just guessing on my part.

My thought would be that the Open Divisions (Men and Women) have enough registered such that there isn't room on the course for the Age-Protected Pro Divisions as well. But I'm not sure, that's just guessing on my part.

That's correct.

Quote

Technically, there were three KCWO tournaments last year; The NT, A tier (restricted Pro divisions and advanced) and B tier (all other Am divisions)

The Memorial had over 200, the Tx Natl's had 116, it obviously can be done but KCWO has chosen an alternate method. This discussion has piqued my curiosity, why is there three tournaments instead of two. Transparency is best, when I'm left to wonder about these things I always come up with sinister plots involving the PDGA and $$$$$.

I'm sure there's some other folks in here that can answer that better. All I'm looking at are other NT's..

http://www.pdga.com/national-tour (http://www.pdga.com/national-tour)

The Vibram Open is the only other NT that offers only Pro Open and Pro Women (In just 1 tournament --- They have another tournament for AMs). I'm guessing it has to do with payout and field size? Entices amateurs to play a C-tier if they cant make the whole weekend of events? Scheduling may be easier?

We seem to always have a big Masters and above field..and we offer Int and Juniors.... good questions, Jack where are you?

It's seems to be a trend to play as slow a round as possible in tournaments. Pick up the pace folks. It has far less to do with pre-throw routine than it does with so many people walking the course like they are helping their 105 year old grandma around. This isn't casual rounds people. Slow play, which includes moving from shot to shot and green to tee, is a violation of the rules. Refer to the competition manual, which you got in your PDGA packet.:

I completely agree Tracy. I like to play a round in 70-90 minutes, so playing a tournament round that's 3+ hours (and sometimes 4+ hours) can be absolutely brutal. While I understand there's going to be slower play in tournaments, especially in full tournaments with a variety of skill levels, the duration of many rounds seems to border on the extreme.

Given that it only takes one slow group to hold up several behind them, I would love to see tournament officials discuss speed of play in the players meeting. Let everyone know that if a group comes up on a hole 15 minutes behind the group in front of them, and an official is present, they'll be receiving a warning. If they don't speed it up, stroke em! Addressing this proactively before rounds would help set the tone, since I would imagine warnings and strokes for pace of play are very rare. Additionally, I believe quicker rounds would add to the overall enjoyment of an event like the KCWO, as it would allow more time at the end of the day to enjoy various other KCWO activities, instead of just wanting to go home after 7 hours of competition over two rounds.

I always just assume that a competitive round is going to take an average of three hours. The exceptions being longer courses which can take longer; and shorter courses - or tournaments with small turn outs - which can make the round shorter. But on average, I think 3 hours is about average in my experience. Unless CD is on the card... Then all bets are off. LOL

I always just assume that a competitive round is going to take an average of three hours. The exceptions being longer courses which can take longer; and shorter courses - or tournaments with small turn outs - which can make the round shorter. But on average, I think 3 hours is about average in my experience. Unless CD is on the card... Then all bets are off. LOL

Or Stiles for that matter, and he started this damn off topic thread. ;)

There will not be as many rounds this year, so as long as we keep it moving on the course, all should be good and kosher. Swope Gold is very long course and very challenging. It is no BV, but it is way tougher than WW and Rose, so I guess it takes longer to play. I also like to promote fitness and stamina, but I get it. Play faster and we won't be as tired or out of rhythm on the course.

The nature of the NT is to showcase the top Men and Women in our sport. So Masters isn't apart of that equation. Is this that big of a deal? You now have less money going toward the PDGA and more going toward your field.

The nature of the NT is to showcase the top Men and Women in our sport. So Masters isn't apart of that equation. Is this that big of a deal? You now have less money going toward the PDGA and more going toward your field.

if it was about the money this old dog wouldn't still be chasing plastic. same goes for a lot of mpm and mpg players I'm guessing. apparently no one else cares so it must not be even a miniscule deal. just asking why. if you don't have the answer feel free not to be offended or post.

The nature of the NT is to showcase the top Men and Women in our sport. So Masters isn't apart of that equation. Is this that big of a deal? You now have less money going toward the PDGA and more going toward your field.

if it was about the money this old dog wouldn't still be chasing plastic. same goes for a lot of mpm and mpg players I'm guessing. appardently no one else cares so it must not be even a miniscule deal. just asking why. if you don't have the answer feel free not to be offended or post.

ok I get it. kcwo and vibram are the showcase events. and thanks for the clarification about top players. hope hemme, convers, arthur, arturo, et al get a clue soon.you want something to grow be careful how much you prune it back

The NT is to showcase the Pro Men and Women, as such the NT side of the event is only open to competitors playing in the MPO and FPO divisions.

All other divisions are in the A-Tier from the professional and advanced pools wich will be switching locations.

The NT side will be limited to 72 and the other fields as well unless there is enough demand.

It has been this way for some time in KC and many other NT's. As for the Master's Cup event being an NT the pro side is and the Am side is a different weekend. Only one course is used for the event, all tee times.....

The reasoning for this to keep the pools along these lines is because it keeps the pools playing the same field during the same conditions. So you would want to eliminate the women and put in age protected pro's instead? Not a way to showcase the top players.

Speed of play is an issue and as a TD I have more than once informed groups that they need to speed up accordingly (CD can attest to this during Worlds at BV I did so, and he proceeded to miss the putt, I felt bad.....but it was a long back up). You cannot have the desire to play like an open player yet not play in the open field. You have a decision to make, and the decision lies within yourself to make that call. Just as last year with Phil Arthur not getting the USDGC spot because the "A" tier isn't a qualifier, only the NT is. These are decisions that you as a player can only make.

The logic is that we want to keep the divisions as closely aligned as we can, so the MPM and MM1 (pro and advanced Masters) will be playing the same courses, where the MA1 (Adv Men) will probably be playing their own field based on size.

The 3 pools will be this way to help keep the grouping alike, if you don't like the speed of play with your peers, let them know.....

As for the C-Tier, the third one day event is for Non-PDGA members the chance to play on courses used for the Wide Open and not being "forced" to join the PDGA, but pay the daily fee. It is really for Intermediate/Jr/Rec players..... This should enable locals or guests traveling a chance to play here in KC and enjoy the event albeit for one day, and still participate accordingly.

Any ideas on when and what divisions will play what courses yet? Just trying to decide if I want to pay the extra cash to play Adv Masters or take it easy and play Int and spend my extra time just hanging out watching the Open divisions.

Host hotel information, please direct people to this, we really want to use the hotel well this year! The price is about as discounted as I could get. Rosie is the furthest away, as it is about 20 min, all the rest are less than 15 to the courses.

"As for the C-Tier, the third one day event is for Non-PDGA members the chance to play on courses used for the Wide Open and not being "forced" to join the PDGA, but pay the daily fee. It is really for Intermediate/Jr/Rec players..... This should enable locals or guests traveling a chance to play here in KC and enjoy the event albeit for one day, and still participate accordingly."

I would like to voice the opinion of myself and some of the newer players. To clarify, novice, rec, and intermediate will only be playing two rounds/one day this year? If so thats kind of a bummer. Im a newer player and have only played four tournies. My first being the wide open last year. In retrospect the allure and the fond memories are from experiencing the 'big tournement feel'. This being the events leading up and during rounds, the amount of people, pros present, AND most importantly the chance to play a tourny in excess of two rounds/one day. Two rounds/one day drastically takes away from the appeal and unique format that comprise a big tourny. How would the pros/advanced etc players feel if the kcwo was suddenly changed to a two round/one day event? Is this really being done due to speed of play? I played novice last year and honestly dont recall anyone waiting on us to finish holes to tee off. If i remember correctly novice, rec and intermediate were grouped together and played separate courses on separate days/times than everyone else..... I was really looking forward to playing in the wide open this year untill i saw some of the posts regarding the revised format. Its been condensed into a 'regular' tournament for us newer/less skilled players to accomidate the better players and perhaps make arranging a tournament easier..... I personally dont have the resources to travel hours to play in another big event to replicate the feeling of a big tourny. correct me if im wrong but we try to introduce as many people to our sport and give them incentive to stay with the sport to watch it grow. this change in format only makes us/them feel slighted.

I dont recall hearing anyone complain about 2days/3 rounds being too much. If anything its the contrary. Plus, if thats the case they can register to any of the myriad of other tournaments offered all throughout the year. We, just like you, enjoy and eagerly anticipate the opportunity to play in a special, unique, big tourney that strays from the norm.

It is what it is. Props, Johnny, for making a Loomis/Jack length post. I agree with move up "hell no". But, even though we did get curbed we can watch some of the best in the game throw on sunday with a curbside view. I think the reason most don't move up in biggy tourneys is the fact that many regular open players play down in adv. I am also not a fan of playing on friday. I'm a weekend tourney playa. I will play in this and will have an awesome time watching the real pros bludgen our courses. $57 for a c-tier seems a bit high but I'm sure that playa pack will be fat. My hope is that we could have a pick of a KCWO stamped disc of something we throw instead of a dyemax buzz or roc or aviar. And probably I will get spanked in int and will not move down and play rec. I will also enjoy a few pops on sunday with all. Can't wait!

C-Tier Justification from the TD.It is what it is. The reality of the event is that the C-Tier gives people a chance to play in the Wide Open and enjoy the courses that the Pro's play on and then watch the top players in the world on our courses. If you are playing in the C-Tier you get that chance. You also don't have to pay the mandated PDGA fee. Reality check is this, there used to not be Int./Rec divisions, they are relatively new, so you had to play ADV if you wanted to play. This is why we used to have 2 pools of Adv Men in some of the previous years of the Wide Open.

Now we don't, and honestly it is a volunteer staffing issue, and players enjoyment level. If you want to play in the "Wide Open" A-Tier you may, it is a choice you have to make. As for most of the Rec/Int players watching the pro's that come to town really once a year should be more fun than playing an additional round.

The bottom line, we want you to enjoy the event, have a chance to play the courses that the pro's are playing on, and watch some great golf. You can do this now, and it is an option that wasn't available before.

We really need more volunteers than you can imagine, so if you are that upset, come help out we need the support.

Basically we need over 120 volunteer shifts covered, on top of 15 dedicated staff.....

I only recall this being the host hotel once before. But I seem to remember it being really well suited to the event. Nice rooms and a nice restaurant/bar along with plenty of space to set up stuff. Pretty easy access right off I-435 and Front Street too.

I only recall this being the host hotel once before. But I seem to remember it being really well suited to the event. Nice rooms and a nice restaurant/bar along with plenty of space to set up stuff. Pretty easy access right off I-435 and Front Street too.

I failed to realize it was at the top of the page. I agree with your sentiment though it is ideal, I will also be setting up either a 9 hole mini course, or an actual 9 hole course around the venue.

No problem. The issue though would be should we go based on length of courses that the C-Tier is playing instead? Then we could stop short at the appropriate level! 8)I hope to make it down there over the next week to look at the design, but there are some nice water shots that I am thinking about for the course on the campus.

Ok, I can fix that from the broken basket at my house for certain. Thanks Jordan. I am pretty sure we fixed #5 last year out there, but I will make a trek out there to check everything out. I appreciate it, please keep things like this coming!

#6 at WW is missing the lower ring that connects the inner chains at the bottom...

URGH! I thought that was fixed, but you know I was thinking that as well. I think that has been that way awhile now. Something has to be done on that one, because it is constantly missing it seems like.....

Is the B Pool - All Age Based Divisions and Advanced Women (A-Tier) playing only 3 rounds? It looks like it's missing the Swope gold which I guess would be Saturday afternoon round right?

No and Yes. You will play 4 rounds in the B-Pool including Swope Gold. There is just an error on the site that needs to get fixed. Swope Gold is Saturday afternoon and Rosedale is your 4th Round on Sunday.

Please support the 31st Annual Kansas City Wide Open Presented by Grip EQ by purchasing one or more of these beautiful Champion Glow Roc3s. Your sponsorship will be acknowledged both in the Tournament Program and at kcwideopen.com (http://kcwideopen.com). Only limited number of these beauties will be minted with this stamp, so claim yours today.

I am looking for someone to sponsor me in the c tier of the kcwo just don't have the money at this particular moment but I will give them in returnA: player packB: half winningsC: or pay such person back if anyone is interested please message me or you can call our text me at 8168208597

This is more out of curiosity than anything at this point, but, looking at the sign-ups, they seem a bit "lacking" in the Open, and Masters side of things this year. I know there's still a month to go, but, I remember a lot more folks being signed up by this point last year. Just seems weird that there's a possibility of me being able to say "Hey, I placed in the Top 10 this year in Masters!"....lol ::) ;D

Jack, I know it's early, any ETA for lay out at Swope Gold? (planning next couple of weeks for Friday Traveling League.)

Hopefully at least a week in advance? Might be able to drum up some bodies to help if needed.

The problem is that the mowing, and the painting all need to take place and if you do it too far out it won't work.

Suffice to say unless you plan a special "thursday or Wednesday" edition of Friday league, it will not be available before the event. This has nothing to do with local complaints, only time. If we get help we could have it up minus the paint the week before would be ideal.

too much work to make it happen and not enough time to make it right. You are lucky. 5 is a must 2 now though, and 7 is a must 3, but the bigger problem with 7 is that it will really only be a 3, no separation there now, in the longer placement there is separation.Alas it is what it is!

It's actually in the really tall weeds back and to the right of the current pin. I'm not sure, but I think it was cleaned out at one point. There's another fairway cleared that goes back there, but it doesn't get mowed. (most likely because the ground isn't very flat) I would love to see it opened up, I'm getting tired of putting for 2 and taking a 4 on the left pin.

They will probably get 2 discs, a shirt, a mini, and entry to the BBQ, party on Saturday. Ams will get 3 discs, umbrella, shirt, mini, entry to BBQ, and possibly a voucher to the vendors for an additional disc, looking at the entries before that will be decided. Pros will get a shirt and a mini, and the BBQ. The minis are small secret at this point, but most people should think that they are pretty darn cool. Women will get a special gift as well from renowned disc golfer and wonderful lady extraordinaire the Flying Palmer! That is a super uber secret though, as well the women will get slightly different shirts than the men, you know a women's shirt.... ;D

Can we sign in if we can't make it thursday because we live far away? For the same reason if we can't make it sunday is there another option for getting the players pack and possible prize? I probably don't have to worry about the prize but the players pack I would like. I live too close to get a hotel, but too far to want to drive down 2 extra times.

Can we sign in if we can't make it thursday because we live far away? For the same reason if we can't make it sunday is there another option for getting the players pack and possible prize? I probably don't have to worry about the prize but the players pack I would like. I live too close to get a hotel, but too far to want to drive down 2 extra times.

Rich, the notion of the one day event is so that people can enjoy a day watching the pros at the final 9. Registration and check in is slated for Thursday. If you absolutely can't get your players pack on Sunday at Swope, then one can be mailed to you provided you cover shipping. I find it hard to imagine that you would come to the event on Saturday Morning, play 2 rounds, then go to the BBQ party, and leave and miss out on the National Tour component of the Final 9 much less at least the morning round, where you could get these items. This is the main reason we went with the one day 2-round format so that you could enjoy watching the top level pros play.

Suffice it to say though, that is not my choice, that is your choice. However I am not at this point having additional staff made available to have the check-in materials available daily throughout the entire courses. I may though based on your comments have a small sampling available Saturday at the BBQ to accommodate. I will discuss it with the folks that have already volunteered to see if they can handle the extra work load. You may not be the only person that is thinking like this, so I appreciate the notion. However if timing doesn't allow it to happen, please understand that some type of concession will be in order to ship it to you if that is the outcome.

Rich, Who do you know in town? Just have them pick it up for you and hold on to it, thus avoiding any complications. It shouldn't be a problem for someone to put your player's pack aside until you get to town. I'm sure you can ask someone nicely to hold it for you. Just not Jack. He'll be drunk, standing on a pedestal below a flashing neon sign that says, "I did this."

Rich, Who do you know in town? Just have them pick it up for you and hold on to it, thus avoiding any complications. It shouldn't be a problem for someone to put your player's pack aside until you get to town. I'm sure you can ask someone nicely to hold it for you. Just not Jack. He'll be drunk, standing on a pedestal below a flashing neon sign that says, "I did this."

You will need to have a meal ticket yes, this is why you need to pick up the players packet in advance, typically on Thursday.

Based on your comments though more work, you bring up some good points. I may alter the situation and have the players check in to get information at the BBQ on Saturday night now for those that missed getting the check in on Thursday. Sounds like this is how it will be needing to happen. Thanks for posting on this topic.

I will figure out a way to have the C-Tier players items at the course on Saturday morning. I hadn't thought that through as this is the first time that I have done the event with different days, I hadn't thought about that angle of it. Again thanks for bringing it to my attention and I will work on a scenario so that everything is set up for ease of checking in on Saturday prior to the event starting. You will of course though want to be there early to ensure that everything is running smooth if you hadn't checked in earlier.

Thanks again for pointing this out to me. I am sure that we can make this all work!

I just reserved a room there for a "Last minute deal" rate of $61.00 a night. That's even discounted from what Jack posted originally. If ya' don't have a place, or just want your own room, that's actually a pretty darn giggity deal! 8)

What is the deal with me and the hotels? Geesh.... But thanks for staying at the host hotel. I am going to be setting up a course there as well to entertain us during the off hours on Thursday and Friday.

I finally read your comments Jack. Actually, all I did was follow the links from the site until it came to the booking. I selected my dates, and it set me up with a "Last minute deal". I was a little surprised myself actually. 8)

Alrighty folks, we're just one week away from the Wide Open! the NT has 70 users registered with 17 Pro Ladies ready to rock (That's almost twice as many as we had last year)Next is MA1 with 68 registered participants. I don't need to tell you... register soon!Online registration closes on Tuesday June 11th at midnight!

www.kcwideopen.com (http://www.kcwideopen.com)

The most current Course & Event Schedule has been updated on the kcwideopen website. Stay tuned for the maps and hole descriptions!

This may be a stupid question, but here it goes; Do I, as an intermediate participant in this lovely tournament, have to attend the opening ceremony at the Ramada on Thursday night, or can I simply go donate my $5 to WW league?

Champ Glow Roc Fund Raisers for the Wide Open have made their way to Disc Golf World. I would appreciate everyone in here buying at least 2! ;D

Why aren't these available at the DD shop? I wanted to pick up a few but almost never make it up to DGW since DD is more convenient for me. (And I can't abide paying shipping for something I can pick up myself.)

Champ Glow Roc Fund Raisers for the Wide Open have made their way to Disc Golf World. I would appreciate everyone in here buying at least 2! ;D

Why aren't these available at the DD shop? I wanted to pick up a few but almost never make it up to DGW since DD is more convenient for me. (And I can't abide paying shipping for something I can pick up myself.)

This may be a stupid question, but here it goes; Do I, as an intermediate participant in this lovely tournament, have to attend the opening ceremony at the Ramada on Thursday night, or can I simply go donate my $5 to WW league?

You can do as you please. I'll be running WW league, so come on out and have a good time.

Advanced does not play until Friday afternoon, therefore I won't be coming into town until then. How should I check in? Where do I pick up players pack and tournament program?

Tournament programs will be available at the course site and will be posted online for download SOON. Players packs will be available at Swope. Just make sure you get to Blue valley early to check in with your TD.

Champ Glow Roc Fund Raisers for the Wide Open have made their way to Disc Golf World. I would appreciate everyone in here buying at least 2! ;D

Why aren't these available at the DD shop? I wanted to pick up a few but almost never make it up to DGW since DD is more convenient for me. (And I can't abide paying shipping for something I can pick up myself.)

These are Disc Golf World/Innova Sponsorship discs.

Fair enough. I thought that was a possibility but didn't see the DGW logo so it bore asking.

Will C-Tier be able to check in on Thursday at the Ramada, or must we wait until Saturday at Rosedale? It would be a shame if C-tier players packs weren't ready on Thursday when we attend opening ceremonies.

Also, I am a proud owner of a KCWO Glo Roc3 purchased at DGW, so proud in fact that I immediately noticed a problem when I couldn't find my name in the program.

Will the Ob be marked at league tonight at blue valley and how much does it cost?

The OB is marked at Blue Valley-League will be in play. The OB for the most part of Blue Valley is either on or across roads or sidewalks. #3 is the only one that gets tricky, and the paths by the pin are IN not out.

League is $6 +$1 for the ace fund, club members get a $1 discount.

Thanks Kevin for the program. Yes I know there are a few timing errors. For example, the players meeting is not at 7:30 AM. You are not starting a round at 8:10 PM. I think a few distances weren't double checked, and at the course I will make adjustments available for each card accordingly.

Just made contact with Red Bull, they will be out to follow the National Tour and offer free red bulls to players...

I just contacted the various emt services and gave them the heads up that almost two hundred people will be consuming free red bull in 100 degree heat this weekend and that they should be ready for lots of heat stroke calls.

Just made contact with Red Bull, they will be out to follow the National Tour and offer free red bulls to players...

I just contacted the various emt services and gave them the heads up that almost two hundred people will be consuming free red bull in 100 degree heat this weekend and that they should be ready for lots of heat stroke calls.

Just made contact with Red Bull, they will be out to follow the National Tour and offer free red bulls to players...

I just contacted the various emt services and gave them the heads up that almost two hundred people will be consuming free red bull in 100 degree heat this weekend and that they should be ready for lots of heat stroke calls.

Just made contact with Red Bull, they will be out to follow the National Tour and offer free red bulls to players...

What? No. I don't want RedBull at this event.....if they want to come out they need to coordinate it. They should be at the players BBQ if they want to be anywhere. THey walk around are distracting, and in all honesty I have a sponsor already of Arnold Palmer Tea for the BBQ and they need to go through channels the proper way....ARGH......

Geezus Jack, not everything needs to be OFFICIAL. Good grief. I doubt RB being there will be much of a distraction, and I doubt they'll be in anyone's face. They'll set up their little Mini car, and people will come to them. And a big name like Redbull being out there will add legitimacy to this event in the eyes of casual spectators, which is a good thing.

Just made contact with Red Bull, they will be out to follow the National Tour and offer free red bulls to players...

What? No. I don't want RedBull at this event.....if they want to come out they need to coordinate it. They should be at the players BBQ if they want to be anywhere. THey walk around are distracting, and in all honesty I have a sponsor already of Arnold Palmer Tea for the BBQ and they need to go through channels the proper way....ARGH......

And you wonder why few (brave) souls want to help out.

I don't drink the stuff but I think that Tank showing the initiative it great! Everyone else can have my share and all the jitters that go with it!

Remember when the Red Bull girl was standing ON Emac's disc offering him wings! Some Rosie tourney a while back.

I was on his card when that happened. They would not get out of our way!

They are not aware of the scenario and have as indicated by others been a distraction. That is the reasoning. Keizer things need to be done in a way that makes sense for all the sponsors. Legitimizing disc golf by having Red Bull girls show up isn't something that I think of when I see things on TV. When was the last time you saw a Red Bull Girl walk in the middle of the fairway in Augusta?

As for the 8:00 am start, it sucks, I get it as well, but it is Blue Valley. League rounds took about 3 hours last night, so tourney rounds are 4 hours plus. I was cussing Des Moines with their 8:00am start, only to think to myself, yeah I did that as well. It is what it is.

And now we are very close to having the event here. All I can say is THANK YOU TO ALL THE PEOPLE THAT HELPED OUT! It takes an entire community to make this event work, and many of you are putting the feet to grass, some more than others, don't get me wrong, but overall I want to thank all of you that are taking time away from your life to make this work for everyone!!

Swope looks great! Thanks to Dan Cashen (right?) and the random P&R guy on a mower that said he volunteered his time to help put in those steps. The course is immaculate and great fun to play.

A fair warning: get out there and play it and don't trust the caddy book. It would seem that there are a lot of differences in hole lengths and descriptions. The set up is still cool but don't think you can imagine your way around it and figure out what it'll be, because it isn't that.

distances may be off, but the book is spot on otherwise, only OB isn't marked accordingly, and there will be updates on that available for the players during the round. The distances were best guessed with a range finder prior to them being in place, and in order to get the book done and look alright, well they are off in a few instances, only a few.

Distances on the map were added, so in complete agreement on that. Just a few distance errors, other than the hole #2 location, the other thing on #2 is that I don't think that I am going to be able to get the straw bales that I am looking for in time. I haven't given up yet on that though....

So I got a question. I walked most of swope today and noticed hole 10 is an island. Is there no drop zone? If not do we just empty our bag till we reach it? And then if I run out of discs what is the procedure at that point?

Agreed. I think there is an element of excitement to it too. If the tournament is close at the end there is a larger base of players to watch it draw to its exciting close. If there aren't tee times that could happen before the last place people finish and there just seems to be something wrong with that.

Also, many of the best tournaments I've played have been on tee times. GBO and Vibram have been exclusively that way and I think they are better for it.

Agreed. I think there is an element of excitement to it too. If the tournament is close at the end there is a larger base of players to watch it draw to its exciting close. If there aren't tee times that could happen before the last place people finish and there just seems to be something wrong with that.

Also, many of the best tournaments I've played have been on tee times. GBO and Vibram have been exclusively that way and I think they are better for it.

Ya know how I know this is a "REAL" event? Because it hasn't even begun yet and people are already b%tching. ;D

LOL, I have a buddy that says he has never heard more b%tching and whining in his life until he is around disc golfers at a tournament... ;D

And as a TD that's the thanks we get. When people b%tch about my tournaments I just tell them to step up and be in charge next year and run the tournament. Usually shuts them up pretty quick! I know some of you are not b%tching but just inquiring and there is a difference, believe me. So no need to jump down my throat about this post. ;)

As a TD we all know what that stands for....Thankless Deed

I had plenty of people come up to me last year after the PITT Open and thank me and just one thank you makes it all worth it for me. That's why we are trying to raise the bar and make it a 2-day 2-course event this year. Hope you can make it as registration is now live!

Ya know how I know this is a "REAL" event? Because it hasn't even begun yet and people are already b%tching. ;D

LOL, I have a buddy that says he has never heard more b%tching and whining in his life until he is around disc golfers at a tournament... ;D

And as a TD that's the thanks we get. When people b%tch about my tournaments I just tell them to step up and be in charge next year and run the tournament. Usually shuts them up pretty quick! I know some of you are not b%tching but just inquiring and there is a difference, believe me. So no need to jump down my throat about this post. ;)

As a TD we all know what that stands for....Thankless Deed

I had plenty of people come up to me last year after the PITT Open and thank me and just one thank you makes it all worth it for me. That's why we are trying to raise the bar and make it a 2-day 2-course event this year. Hope you can make it as registration is now live!

People need to develop thicker skin and stop viewing criticism as b^&*(*&%^. If you want to find a way to take offense because people disagree with the way you've chosen to run something, that is your own problem.

And... it seems to me that feedback from players is a great way to run even better events in the future.

Ya know how I know this is a "REAL" event? Because it hasn't even begun yet and people are already b%tching. ;D

LOL, I have a buddy that says he has never heard more b%tching and whining in his life until he is around disc golfers at a tournament... ;D

And as a TD that's the thanks we get. When people b%tch about my tournaments I just tell them to step up and be in charge next year and run the tournament. Usually shuts them up pretty quick! I know some of you are not b%tching but just inquiring and there is a difference, believe me. So no need to jump down my throat about this post. ;)

As a TD we all know what that stands for....Thankless Deed

I had plenty of people come up to me last year after the PITT Open and thank me and just one thank you makes it all worth it for me. That's why we are trying to raise the bar and make it a 2-day 2-course event this year. Hope you can make it as registration is now live!

People need to develop thicker skin and stop viewing criticism as b^&*(*&%^. If you want to find a way to take offense because people disagree with the way you've chosen to run something, that is your own problem.

And... it seems to me that feedback from players is a great way to run even better events in the future.

I guess this is directed towards me so I guess I'll respond that people also need to develop a sense of humor and some personality. I don't and will not have a problem with people giving me criticism about anything. In fact at the end of our tournament I asked for it and some people did give me their negative and positive opinions. Things like that always makes your events better as the years go on. In fact I remember one negative opinion that I'm going to make sure I address to not be an issue for this years tourney. But if they go on and on about something and make the event sound not worth attending to other players then I call it b%tching! I'm not saying any comments on here are directed in that fashion at all but there are those out there that take it to far about some things.

Both. Now complain about it. ;) I mean that there is marked OB perpendicular to the hay bails, and they are stacked two high, and there is OB behind the basket about 45 feet out. You don't want to be short of the hay bails. However, there is a long landing strip, in bounds, on the left side of two's fairway. Just don't get into three's fairway as it is OB, too.

Swope looks better than I have seen it in three years. Too bad the park has lost so many trees to disease. It should be a premier course, IMO> The course is amazing as it is set now. Oh yeah, and new stairs thanks to KCMO P&R and Dan Cashen and crew.

I haven't seen the other courses yet, but have talked to many people who have donated time and energy to their beautification. Great showing of the KC community. Can't wait to see them this weekend.

That's what I'm talking about. Ladies and Gentlemen we're 10 hours away from GEP31KCWO. Good luck to all you players out there. Many thanks to the folks that make this event possible. Without our awesome members volunteering countless hours, this event does not happen. You should feel good about this :D East and West, doesn't matter this weekend folks, we're playing for Kansas City.

I just looked at the posted scores. Nice shooting Dick (wisperer) Parker! You too Fred Smith! Not supprised by either. Keep it up locals! I'm hoping to see tatoo Steve and Tom Butler on top of the am masters come Sunday!

There is still room for some more players in the tomorrow's KCWO C-Tier. You'll need to sign up at Rosedale no later than 8:30 am. The cost is $62 ($10 less if you're a current PDGA member) Players play Rosie and Water Works, and receive a package that includes two discs, a commemorative shirt, two minis, and the Saturday night party/dinner.

Disc Golf Planet TV is laying a big egg. NO LIVE COVERAGE! 1 hour rap up show with 55 minutes of studio and commercials. Only about 5 minutes of highlight action of two tees and a couple holes with McBeth. LAME!

When the decision is made as to what the Advanced Men group is going to do tomorrow morning could you please post it here? As I understand it, as of right now we are teeing off to finish our round at 7:30, then moving to Waterworks. I guess we'll see if they can get that power line fixed by tomorrow morning.

On another note, I saw Nikko took a 3 on 9 at Blue Valley. I didn't think that was possible in the current pin setting. Did he take the normal route and just throw a bomb anny drive over all the trees?

Once again.... perhaps some people need lessons in weather and tournament management. Don't wait until the last second to call a round due to bad weather.

I find it interesting that the person that had to make the decision has heard negative comments on the timing of the call from exactly one person so far. While this person that was tasked with making the decision freely admits he feels he should have called it five minutes sooner. But certainly not thirty minutes sooner as one person suggested. It's a tough call and a stressful situation that everyone would prefer not to find themselves in. Your comments are of course most certainly welcome and will definitely be taken to heart.

great job at all the courses, especially with weather delays, everybody was cool and that's the way it should be. congrats to cd for knocking out a world champ in a playoff with a pimp driving deuce on hole 1 @ ww. awesome spotting and no fights that I heard of between players. too bad rosie wasn't ready for play on sunday.

Great event! Had a blast all three days, even though we didn't get to finish Rosie. My one concern is the Advanced Men's vouchers for placing in the top 35. They were supposed to be handed out before the NT Final 9, but no one seemed to know where they were. Unfortunately, my wife and I had to get on the road back to Denver before anything was sorted out. Does anyone have any info on the vouchers? or if I could still receive mine to be used online? Thanks!

Once again.... perhaps some people need lessons in weather and tournament management. Don't wait until the last second to call a round due to bad weather.

I find it interesting that the person that had to make the decision has heard negative comments on the timing of the call from exactly one person so far. While this person that was tasked with making the decision freely admits he feels he should have called it five minutes sooner. But certainly not thirty minutes sooner as one person suggested. It's a tough call and a stressful situation that everyone would prefer not to find themselves in. Your comments are of course most certainly welcome and will definitely be taken to heart.

The person is me. Just say it. And the issue was brought up by more than a few people. As the course cordinator it's your call to make, and the 30 minute delay in making the call was wrong. You see lightning, you have to pull the players. Period. You don't wait until the last second. The entire reason for assistant TD's is so you can make these calls when they're missing. No one complains because no one generally complains about these things. Many issues go unreported and unmentioned. This one could have gotten someone hurt and then you could have taken THAT to heart.

Hindsight is 20/20 dude. As you can probably see, it isn't easy running a giant event like a NT. maybe run it next year, don't play a Jack Lowe event ever again, find something positive to say, or shut the hell up.

My card was on hole 8 and had no chance in hell of making it back dry when it was called. But then again I didn't care, just part of the experience. Great event, thanks to everybody who put on the event and volunteered.

Hindsight is 20/20 dude. As you can probably see, it isn't easy running a giant event like a NT. maybe run it next year, don't play a Jack Lowe event ever again, find something positive to say, or shut the hell up.

Wake up numb nuts! I wasn't talking to you or about jack. Pick up the pace. This issue involves Kevin. And either you're not an avid reader or maybe you're slow witted, I made the first complimentary comments about the event. The reaction on record does not constitute the rather trite and over-played statement of "hey, you run it then." Jack did a lot of things great and he %$#@ed up some things. That happens. THIS issue is for Kevin and his lack of action when it was required of him. Safety first.

I will agree with Loomis, generally, though refrain from commenting on this particular instance since I wasn't there.

Safety has to be paramount. Calling a delay is never easy but it is much easier and better than a lightning strike. I feel at some events that I've been at the call has been retarded for one reason or another but when a possible event has such a magnitude a delay cannot be tolerated.

Again, I'm generally agreeing with Loomis but not talking about this instance since I wasn't there.

I was at Rosedale on Saturday, and think he called it at the perfect time.

The first lightning I saw was less than 5 minutes before the rain, and it was far enough away to not even be heard at all. In less then 10 minutes the weather went from beautiful and sunny to 40mph winds and pouring rain.

I was spotting at hole 4 at WW on Saturday. When the warning siren went off, I was like, 'really? it's not even raining dude'. As I was walking up the hill on hole 7 and looked back at downtown, it became more like, 'WTF!' I was amazed at how fast it came in. It would have been a tuff call. I'm glad I didn't have to make it.

Then send Kevin a PM and don't post on a public forum for us to react too and comment on. Or do I need to be on this forum for another 8 years to understand that? Guess I will just go to bed now and let you and cooper argue who's gonna catch and who's gonna pitch tonight.

Then send Kevin a PM and don't post on a public forum for us to react too and comment on. Or do I need to be on this forum for another 8 years to understand that? Guess I will just go to bed now and let you and cooper argue who's gonna catch and who's gonna pitch tonight.

Out of line. I don't even know who you are so I'm not sure what your problem is but this is a discussion about safety.

Everyone will agree that this decision is hard and is one that not everyone will ever be happy with. I think everyone will agree, however, that discussion and improvement is indeed meritorious.

I really don't have anything further to add and don't feel I need to defend my actions as I've already stated my position. If others felt they were in danger and are unhappy with how things turned out they certainly didn't voice those concerns to me at the time or after the fact. But your point is well taken Loomis. I completely understand where you are coming from and if this situation happens to me in the future your comments will no doubt be valuable information for myself and others to draw upon.

Oh, and the word we were trying to think of the other day when I was talking to you is astraphobia. I don't say that to be facetious, I just remembered our conversation and was curious.

I think we'd all be a lot better off if the club simply purchased a couple of these for just such situations and I sincerely wish I had had one Saturday.

This is a great suggestion Kevin. Thanks for not resulting to homophobic slurs to make a point.

I'm actually surprised there aren't requirements in the PDGA manual to use these things. I know they would be expensive for every TD to have but they are also prevalent. I know many schools are required to have them for activities and I'm sure for a rental fee and some form of collateral when they are unused they could be acquired.

I don't know how with computer/cell phone internet, how radar couldn't have helped make the call. I was at swope and it looked like it might stay south and it darkened up out east and I saw some bolts. These were already by us. Then winds picked up and then it dumped sideways. Finishing hole 7 Pete Cashen stopped us and hooked a ride up right as the rain started. Thanks for the ride. I would ultimately say if you're worried lightning is gonna hit nearby then stop, head to the TD and demand a stoppage. I think swope was handled fine. I've rarely seen players argue to stop for safety during the round.

Did you play the tournament this weekend? I don't see your name anywhere. So where did you get this insightful outlook on this topic? I bet you just started reading today, huh? Are you sorta slow? i bet you wouldnt know if you were or not - its that bad, huh? I have a theory but we will get to that later. Keep up if you can but I can tell there isn't much hope of that.

I made my comments regarding weather and the need for some clarity on how to handle weather issues. Cause... Wait for it, this is the second time this year that a TD has had a tough weather issue to resolve. You with me so far, Mr. Slow pitch?

Then Kevin replied rather vaguely and spinelessly. He didn't say, "hey, I %$#@ed up and let jack pressure me into an unsafe call;" or "I panicked and made a bad call." Instead, he tried to dodge it. Then, like clockwork, the huffin' and puffin' crowd who always make empty comments like a bad politician seeking inclusion and acceptance, showed up with their defenses up in an effort to just move on and maintain the status quo no matter whether or not that is good or not...

Now I know I've said a lot so go grab someone and have it explained to you before I continue...

Kevin should have just said, "hey I screwed up. I won't do it again." He didn't. He scampered toward the dress and waited for others to obscure the issue.

Enter the huffin' and puffin' crowd. Yourself included.

You don't sound like you follow the threads real well to understand who is talking about what or what issues have been raised. You're an interloper in this situation and, I'm sure your parents and every girl you've ever talked to would agree with me - you're boring and in the way. So - and I'm sure you here this often - stay out of the way.

And the discretion of the call is on the TD. If a player tried to leave his card before the TD calls it they get stroked. And Kevin knew the weather was bad as we discussed it 35 minutes before the call was made. Lightning was seen. Radars were viewed and Kevin even said, "it's coming." And yet it took him 35 more minutes to make the call. THAT'S the error.

However...

According to the PDGA it's his call and their are no guidelines to follow other than one persons opinion. Players can be stroked for defiance. Just to be clear.

Yeah. I'm not replying to Mr. Rhyno's comments. I sort of was expecting them to be deleted by now anyway.

I think there should be a brightline standard for when to call a suspension of play due to lightning. I like this detector thing a lot. I remember when my football coaches would have it out if the weather even looked dicey and if it got within a certain range that was that. There was no room for human decision it was simply a process of looking at the machine and doing what it said.

That sort of decision making needs to be removed from the process. Period. We don't want to get to the point where somebody gets killed during an event before things change.

if you saw lightning, suspend play your self, I've played rounds with players that have done it, they say I ain't risking it. personally i'll play hell or high water, but if the td blows that horn - game off. nobody will dairyqueen your ass for making a safe call within your group, but playing after the horn is different. same logic applies to shootings that a td may not see or hear. 3 rules of golf 1 : play safe 2 : be courteous 3 : all holes are par 3

I second the recommendation that the club purchase a minimum of 1, possibly up to 3 of the lightening detectors:

P5-2 Skyscan Lightning Detector

It is a good safety precaution.

It is a great liabilty precaution.

It should be required by the KCFDC to be used of any tournament that receives board approval on KCFDC maintained courses. A $5-$25 fee (figure life expectancy and amortize the amount) could be charged to the tournament so there would not be any cost to the club. A deposit should also be required that is refunded when it is returned. If the TD is a recognized and responsible club member, the deposit could be waived.

Please forgive me, your Highness. I wasn't aware that nobody could or should ever oppose the genius that is Loomis. As soon as I figure out how to use a thesaurus, I will decipher your incredible response. Maybe when I grow up, I'll be an incredible traveling Renaissance man like yourself. And no I did not play this event due to circumstances that are out of my control. I was at every round except for the first round at WW. now, go blog about something, you amazing wordsmith you. Cheers ;D

it hard to understand why ya'll are worried about when the call was made,with all that was going on on this weekend,i guess it's the only thing you could find to complain about..............very well run tournament(with all that mother nature give us)

Trust me Mr. Slow Pitch, if you were worth the time or trouble I could spend all day on your tragic existence. Now go sit back down and do what you do best - be an example of a life spent on the sidelines. And if you feel my words are too much for you, I'm always free to make my points in person.

it hard to understand why ya'll are worried about when the call was made,with all that was going on on this weekend,i guess it's the only thing you could find to complain about..............very well run tournament(with all that mother nature give us)

It's simply an issue of magnitude. The caddy book was off, I wish there were tee times, and I'm sure there are a few others things I could nit-pick if I wanted to. The thing about it is that it was a very well run tournament even with its flaws. This issue, while we thankfully avoided anything dire this time, has shed some light on the processes and procedures involved in the safety aspect of our sport. Nothing happened this time, but it would be asinine to think that means nothing will happen in the future.

Minor problems can be forgiven. Events of major magnitude have to be considered. Like I said from the start: I'm not speaking to this instance as I wasn't on this course at this time. We were done at BV by the time the storm came in. I think there is something to be said for continually striving for improvement and establishing brightline safety requirements for our events.

Only a few instances of the Caddy Book were off, and that was from the information that was given to me by the person that did it. I didn't do my due diligence in double checking all the information as I normally do because it was done by a third party this year in an effort to make it look better. Since I am not running the event it will not be an issue next year for me.

THe weather is the weather. You don't pull people off a course because there is a storm in the area 35 minutes away. Kevin and I were in communication as I was with all the Course Directors about the timing of pulling people off. Did we wait to long and some people got wet, sure, but the immediate threat that seems to be a topic in here wasn't the case. Seeing lightning 20-30 miles away and having the technology to view it on the phones now adays makes the lightning detectors not as needed as some are implying here. The PDGA used to have them and with the advent of the phones and the technology it is easy to identify patterns.

Too many times in our area it rains in Olathe and doesn't at WW, the same is made of Swope to Rosedale. THe weather shifts, we were watching it, and when it looked to be as though that it was going to be passing over the areas affected, play was called. Simple as that. THe fact that it was discussed, "oh it's coming" as Loomis indicated, so what, it is coming, that doesn't mean pull them off right then, you pull them off when it becomes unsafe which is what happened.

AS for tee times, I will say it again and this really @#)(*&(*@#&(*_#W& irritates me, had you attended the players meeting you would have known this.....tee times would have happened if there were enough players to support it. There was a plan in place to make it happen, but I am not asking my all volunteer staff to sit outside in the hot sun an extra 5 hours so you can play on a tee time. Had we had people to be there to make it happen plans were in place to have that happen in the NT division. Tee-times don't make an event, so get over yourself in thinking that, an event is made by the players and the mindset and attitudes that they bring.

THose of you that complained about tee times on the NT, the only thing that I really can say is that with tee times, the event wouldn't have finished and we would have quite possibly had to suspend play until Sunday at Blue Valley. I for one was glad that tee times didn't happen exactly for reasons like this weekend. Someone playing at 10am, was having less weather than a 1 pm start for absolute certain.

Run large events sometimes and you will see that it isn't about you and your desires, it is about the other 308 players out there and ensuring a fair format that works for everyone to have a balanced chance at competition.

Overall some mistakes were made, the stupid Drop Zones at Swope I am still hating that I caved. A caddy book is off a few places on distances and one line with a map.......you didn't get tee times, I can live with all of these errors. Next time you want to do something your way, step up and run the event. That is the only way you will ever get your way.

The books: Not a problem for the locals but if I hadn't been local I would've been pissed. All in all not a big deal as they were, as you pointed out, mostly right. That being said, I don't think there is anything wrong with saying that they were wrong. It is a statement of fact and if we aim to improve in future years we can't be afraid of seeing the failures.

The tee-times: Not so sure why you're pissed off that I prefer events with tee times. It is a preference. Many great events operate exclusively on tee times and I, personally, like those events the best. You may not. It is opinion and while still open for debate, highly personal. As for saying that finishing at BV before the storm rolled in showed by tee times are not better I would point you to the old saying about hindsight. It is weak to suggest that because it worked in this instance it 'necessarily' means that it was better this way. But, lest you latch on to this one point to get upset about, let me say it again: the argument over tee times is largely an issue of preference.

The players' meeting: Not worth attending based on previous experience. I've played too many tournaments where it is simply a waste of time to even attend an on course meeting (though I still do). When it is off course and the night before an event and an hour away from my house, I'm not going to be there. Any pertinent information could and should still be covered at the course. And, in case you choose to berate me for not getting a caddy book as a result of not checking in myself I would say maybe make the check in times more friendly for those locals that are working the day before the event. Most days I would have been able to do it myself but that particular day was hectic at work and I didn't leave till almost 5, and hour after check in closed. The next time that I had heard I would be able to check in was around the players' meeting, which was several hours after the fact and not worth waiting for.

The lightning: Let me reiterate for those of you that can't seem to understand the point that I am making about this. I'm not talking about this particular instance and largely I'm speaking to the overall PDGA rules of competition but I think there needs to be a brightline standard for when to suspend play. Say any strike within 30 miles suspends play for at least 30 minutes or something like that. With that there also needs to be a reliance on the technology that we have to make the call for us. I've seen too many events where the TD is unwilling to call players off because they don't want to be viewed as making the call too early. And on the other side of it I'm sure there are times when the TD has called players off too early. My point is that there just need to be clear rules and clear devices that activate those rules.

In sum, it was a great tournament. Thanks to all the volunteers for making it happen. Thanks most of all to Jack for being the figurehead that has to deal with all of the circumstances that come up. Now, can we all stop being so sensitive and have real discussion about what went well and what didn't go so well so that we aren't doomed to repeat the latter?

The cavalier attitude about weather is exactly what will come back to haunt some event and then we'll see what you think. The weather was sour and it was going to be an issue and we should have been pulled when lightning and thunder were present. Period. Again, your opinion was all that mattered according to the PDGA but I suspect that's about to change. Quite a few cards at swope were put off by the lack of appropriate action on behalf of this one call and felt it was handled poorly. Of course, the moments passed now and most of them have left town - though a few locals who could comment on the errant call are not "forum dwellers" and therefore have made no mention of their opinion.

I had no issues with any other aspects of the tournament other than the errant call at swope. I applaud everyone and everything else about the event and have my times both before, during and after the tournament. I stand by my statement about the call and will make my concerns about it known to the PDGA directly.

In the ocean of decisions that had to be made this weekend, this is the only one I have disagreed with. So consider yourself - and this event - a success! Pat yourself on the back again, jack, and try not to feel victimized because a few locals can twist your ear about what they thought about the weekend. I'm sure your vanity will survive this and, certainly, all future calamities that may befall you.

So can we please dump the empty, "then you run it then" woe-is-me responses?

Well done to the KCFDC and all the volunteers to make the 31st a success! Excellent TD and assistant work at every course, spotters in places I didn't expect to see but were needed and great to have them. Also not to forget all the man hours put in to prepare for the event both on course and off. Thank you all!

I agree. And again, anyone who volunteered at the event can redeem a $5 gift certificate at mile north.

Well done to the KCFDC and all the volunteers to make the 31st a success! Excellent TD and assistant work at every course, spotters in places I didn't expect to see but were needed and great to have them. Also not to forget all the man hours put in to prepare for the event both on course and off. Thank you all!

Every player I talked to seem to love the courses and the event. Nate Doss commmented to Kristie and me about how much he and other pro players enjoyed the schedule and playing the core courses of KC> He also mentioned it wouldn't be bad to skip Rosie to play Cliff in the future, after redesign.

We had a great showof community in the form of volunteers and I hope you can all make it to the volunteer party TBA.

Every player I talked to seem to love the courses and the event. Nate Doss commmented to Kristie and me about how much he and other pro players enjoyed the schedule and playing the core courses of KC> He also mentioned it wouldn't be bad to skip Rosie to play Cliff in the future, after redesign.

We had a great showof community in the form of volunteers and I hope you can all make it to the volunteer party TBA.

Played Cliff last night, it was in beautiful shape. Moved it to the Mighty Mo Settings.

Cooper, tee-times not directed at you per se, you mentioned it. Best events don't equate tee-times again I agree with the sentiment that it is an opinion. If we had more volunteers to help with the event tee-times would be a better option, but we don't people don't all show up to help, many have other items they would rather do fact of live unfortunately. If we could pay our volunteers it would be better, our sport doesn't support it, and not enough in our community of local disc golfers go out to get sponsors to help to make this a reality.

Loomis, my call, and it was the right call, as for you and several other cards comment, spot wrong bud you are the only person that has said anything to me that I am aware of (or Kevin for that matter) so we upset you, I can live with that. Kevin has SEVERAL years of running and helping run events, he made the call as he sees fit, and he is an exceptional volunteer of DECADES of work to the club and thousands of hours, and I trust and believe his decisions over your opinion in this instance. Sorry YOU don't like it Loomis, it was not your call to make, and your rhetoric to the notion that it was not a wise decision is only your opinion. Those that volunteered to make it happen thank you, for all the work that went in, please don't let this one sour note ruin another wise wonderful weekend of disc golf.

I know that this is only a couple of items that we are discussing about the event, and overall most are happy with how things developed over the course of the weekend, some mistakes were made, but overall those pale in event as a whole. It took an entire community of disc golfers (even you and Cooper, Loomis) and I thank you all for the work leading up to the event, during the event, and the continuation of cleaning up the courses and resetting Swope for us to enjoy.

Our courses always look great this time of year, and there are hundred if not thousands of disc golfers in the area that are unaware of our efforts as a collective group to improve disc golf for the players from all over the world. I think that a thank you is never enough, and as such I know that a volunteer party is being planned. One item I would like all of you players to think about, is possibly coming out and spotting and caddying for the volunteer party, your way of thanking all of the people that put out their time to make your event work. It would be nice to see some of that type of behavior from the players in the event locally if you can. Just food for thought out here.

These are small issues, and shouldn't even really be discussed as everything was followed to the tee of the rules, and the communication was delivered. It is sad you choose this topic to berate on a great guy for the club, and an event that many enjoyed.

Again thanks to all that played, helped, watched, or followed, it was a fun ride!

Decades of volunteering, right call/ wrong call, who has said what regarding the call... Its empty rhetoric, bud. The captain of the Titanic had years of experience. And those who had opinions regarding the calamity usually never said anything. You can brush the issue aside all you want. You can even cloak your responses in "thank you's" and "congratulations." It doesn't change the fact that the call was wrong and you stand by it. I disagree with you. That's it. We'll see if this moment changes the rule regarding weather for future evets when you and Captain Smith are no longer allowed to use your keen sense of weather prediction for calling a tournament. So it ends with us not agreeing on this issue. You had the right to call it when you did and nothing will change a Jack opinion about a Jack call. So I will go over your head and make sure you don't get to make that call again. Easy enough.

Decades of volunteering, right call/ wrong call, who has said what regarding the call... It doesn't change the fact that the call was wrong and you stand by it. I disagree with you. That's it. We'll see if this moment changes the rule regarding weather for future evets.....

Again this is your opinion Loomis, only you feel it was wrong. I stand by the fact that the call made was correct and done in consultation with many individuals monitoring the weather closely. Were you watching your phone or playing the round? My goal as TD is to ensure that things go as planned and safety is a concern. Pulling people off the course when YOU felt like it wasn't my concern. My concern is the safety of everyone and the decision was made in a timely fashion to minimize distraction from the event and allow safety to be maintained. That was achieved.

You don't like it, you made it clear. Fortunately though your opinion on this matter though obviously notated had no impact on the decisions of others that were in charge to make the decision. I get you don't like it, but having played in an event just three weeks ago where play should have been suspended I understood there is a line, you play in foul weather, it happens, you don't play in unsafe weather, that is what we did. We allowed play in foul weather, and pulled players in unsafe weather. Your definition wasn't consulted and I apologize for that. I used the modern thing that I am typing on to gather the information and worked with Kevin at making an informed decision as to when. Maybe a few minutes could have been done earlier, but the notion of 30-35 minutes earlier is just silly.

Again I will hide it in a big thank you to all that helped, like it or not Loomis, over a 100 people helped to make this event work for you to play, and if you don't like the decisions the step up and run the event and make the decisions next time, and then listen to people that are single sided with conversational points that they see as the only way it should be done.

When and where is the volunteer party? If I'm available I'd love to come out and help.

Will be working on a date. THey had all the local players in Santa Cruz come and cook food, spot, and caddy for all the volunteers at Worlds there in 2011, and I thought that was a super cool idea. I will be sure to share accordingly with folks about it once a decision is made. I think that Crazy even hit an ace at that thing.....

HEy! For all those with panties that are not soiled, KC's own (And East side phenom) CD Steiner became the only player in the Wide Open history to WIN in every PRO division! I, for one would like to congratulate CD for many years of stellar play and doing what it takes to get it done! WELL DONE CD!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Apparently captain smith didn't inform you that he showed me the weather pattern on HIS phone and when I said it doesn't seem to be moving our direction, HE replied, "It's coming." Again... Your TD. He was aware of the data and made it clear to me and even concluded that it was a threat. Five holes later, with lightning and thunder in our sky (we were south of you and the rest of tournament) the tournament wasn't called until the last second.

So it seems you aren't even aware of the circumstances at the course and with your own TD. I will make a note of that.

HEy! For all those with panties that are not soiled, KC's own (And East side phenom) CD Steiner became the only player in the Wide Open history to WIN in every PRO division! I, for one would like to congratulate CD for many years of stellar play and doing what it takes to get it done! WELL DONE CD!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I think he's still got to get the Senior Grandmasters and Legends win, Fred.

I think it was a bad call and I saw that coming all the way down here in Pittsburg KS. I wanted to attend but felt staying home and spending a few hours with my 3 year old on her birthday (which was Saturday) and some time on Father's Day after going through a rough divorce was in my best interest. With all the pain I've experienced over the last few months I wish all I had to complain about was whether or not the weather call was correct or not. So I hope some people realize that there are way more problems in life to dwell on rather than saying the same thing over and over again. I'm not saying this to be rude but to open peoples eyes a little bit in the grand scheme of things we call life.

By the way, what's the weather supposed to be like this weekend for the Mighty MO? I may try to attend if there is no threat of bad weather and if Jack doesn't have to make the call...lol. ;) ;D

Sunday Mostly cloudy. High of 90F. Breezy. Winds from the South at 15 to 20 mph. Sunday Night Partly cloudy with a chance of a thunderstorm. Low of 72F. Winds from the SSW at 5 to 10 mph. Chance of rain 20%.

I have an idea. Let's stop talking about 'this' time and start talking about 'next' time. The only way we can get things better and better is focus on the procedures and their implementation well ahead of the time a call has to be made. Maybe if we become more forward thinking and not focus on our hindsight we'll all be a little happier.

So I hope some people realize that there are way more problems in life to dwell on rather than saying the same thing over and over again. I'm not saying this to be rude but to open peoples eyes a little bit in the grand scheme of things we call life.

In many instances, sure, in this instance I'm not so sure. Yes, this time everything was fine, but often (and I'm not saying in this case) TDs act cavalierly with the lives of the participants. The reality is that while many things in 'real life' suck at least we are alive to feel them and to deal with them. This even transcends many of the safety issues like pedestrians or cars getting hit or poor footing because the damage is terminal.

So let's all calm down. Stop yelling at each other and have a grown up discussion. I know posting in this thread has almost no way to avoid being backward looking so maybe we should shift it to the thread started by Rob in Club Business or create a new thread in General Banter.

Let us all try to live the peace that hole 4 at Water Works beckons us towards!

Is anyone singling out the mass of mistakes in the players book? Done by Loomis and entry to the event paid for, for doing such?????

Should we start 3 freaking pages about the incorrectness of the hole descriptions and belittle you????

SFTU already people!!!!

Great point stank. Lets address the caddy book. It was written in early May and then the course was changed (swope and blue valley) later. So you're right, it was wrong but that's less to do with my efforts and more to do with last second changes which were not communicated to me (other than two holes at blue valley). So that's the answer to your tough little mystery.

And that's what I did for the tournament. Now lets list all of your efforts and see how they stack up? I can't think of one thing you've done for anyone other than yourself since you arrived. Not one day of line painting, no tree trimming, no caddy book writing. Sitting at board meetings hardly constitutes "doing something." So before you open your mouth, make sure you have the right to even say anything. Otherwise, sit back and let others do the work you never seem to be a part of.

You're an arm chair quarterback who hasn't offered up much other than weight at the other end of a teeter totter during conversations.

Since we have the PITT Open coming up I have a question. Has anyone inquired about borrowing or renting one of those lightning detectors from the city or the local parks and rec departments for your tournaments? Just curious as I'm going to talk to ours to see if it's an option to help keep the competitors safe. Thanks

Since we have the PITT Open coming up I have a question. Has anyone inquired about borrowing or renting one of those lightning detectors from the city or the local parks and rec departments for your tournaments? Just curious as I'm going to talk to ours to see if it's an option to help keep the competitors safe. Thanks

It may be worth checking with a school district, too. I know our football coaches used to have them and, in the off season, what school wouldn't be amenable to some extra income?

Since we have the PITT Open coming up I have a question. Has anyone inquired about borrowing or renting one of those lightning detectors from the city or the local parks and rec departments for your tournaments? Just curious as I'm going to talk to ours to see if it's an option to help keep the competitors safe. Thanks

It may be worth checking with a school district, too. I know our football coaches used to have them and, in the off season, what school wouldn't be amenable to some extra income?

Cool, great idea. I work at Pittsburg State University and will check with our Athletics Dept. tomorrow as well. Thanks for the suggestion.

Both my daughters worked most of their late teen years as Lifeguards for the City of Olathe Parks and Rec at the Oregon Trail Park pool directly behind my old house. Before they worked there, they and Cindy spent the Summers there as well. Being so close to the pool and knowing the director of the pools and guards, we knew their procedures regarding many issues, from how to deal with underwear wearing drunken patrons, to when to clear the pools and deck when thunderstorms were in the area. Basically, the pool and deck are cleared immediately when any lightning is seen, or when any thunder is heard.

My card at Swope saw lightning flashes while we were halfway up hole 4. We were called in while we were playing hole 7. We could not hear the horn, but Pete and Kevin came and got us. Since none of us were killed or maimed, and no near misses happened, the call must have been made early enough, this time. :-\

I think perhaps since we live in a part of the country that has some of the strongest thunderstorm activity, we should have our own death/injury by lightning during Disc Golf event avoidance procedure. That would make the decision of when to call the players in easier for the TDs. If phone or interweb technology shows exact locations of strikes, perhaps the players could be called in based on a distance from the nearest strike to the course. I don't know what that number would be, but I'd guess it would be around 10 miles.

I thought the tournament was fun and the courses looked great. I tried to thank all the staff I saw, but to those I missed, and even to those I did see, THANKS! :)

Great point stank. Lets address the caddy book. It was written in early May and then the course was changed (swope and blue valley) later. So you're right, it was wrong but that's less to do with my efforts and more to do with last second changes which were not communicated to me (other than two holes at blue valley). So that's the answer to your tough little mystery.

And that's what I did for the tournament. Now lets list all of your efforts and see how they stack up? I can't think of one thing you've done for anyone other than yourself since you arrived. Not one day of line painting, no tree trimming, no caddy book writing. Sitting at board meetings hardly constitutes "doing something." So before you open your mouth, make sure you have the right to even say anything. Otherwise, sit back and let others do the work you never seem to be a part of.

You're an arm chair quarterback who hasn't offered up much other than weight at the other end of a teeter totter during conversations.

I feel ZERO need to justify anything to you. Since you asked, I helped sponsored the event, I offer my services to do what the BoD asks me to do, ie, carry the leader board and keep score. Think I wanted to do that? No, but I did...

Since you have so much time to complain, many wonder, When's the release of 90 days of mooching off my foreign girlfriend?

Oh stank, of all the people who shouldn't comment on mooching... My god youre the Babe Ruth of mooching. As far as my present situation, hmmmm let's just say I will let your perception stand because I don't think minna wants to chime in to negate your claim. However, she did think it was funny.

And you're right, you don't have to justify yourself. Which is why I'm shocked you brought up your labor intensive sign carrying duties. You didn't have to mention it, but you did. You're altruism is well-noted. I don't think anyone doubts your deep charitable heart. You carried that sign. My gosh, the future of disc golf is safe in your hands.

I challenge everyone to make a list of all the deep hearted efforts made by mr. Stank in the future. I won't be here to notice his staggering selfishness so I will task everyone here to see if go beyond the sign carrying and actually do something. And note to you; it's not altruistic if it serves you; e.g. Offering to coach players... At a discount... Is not altruism. Taking out of town players to play ball golf when the rest of city is painting lines, removing brush, shoveling wood chips, and repairing tee signs... Is not altruism. Doing something for others should be selfless.

Don't worry, I'll be gone soon enough. But now everyone is going to notice your input. Or lack thereof.

I have a suggestion for future tournament directors (and league coordinators), and maybe something our Tech team could work on for the entire KCFDC community. A very useful tool would be a text service that you signup for to receive text message updates. The soccer league that I coach in has such a service and we receive up to minute updates for field conditions as soon as games are cancelled or in some cases confirm games if there is a question. Rather than call the rainout line, you check your text messages which are instantaneous.

For tournaments, this would be useful for weather delays and letting everyone know at the same time if there is a delay and for how long. It can be very difficult to hear the call in if you are on the far side of the course during a rainstorm. It's also a better (faster/easier) way to communicate to everyone that's participating changes to schedules and where and when players need to be at. I could see the usefulness be extended to our KCFDC leagues whether they are still happening (due to weather), location (Cliff/BV or Birdland/PC), start time, or the format (singles to doubles) has changed. You could also use it for KCFDC club announcements such as meeting dates, scheduled work days, etc. The way the soccer text message works is that you can choose which updates you receive (from which field). You can do all or only the specific fields you play and can opt out at any time. For us, you could break it down to Tournaments, Leagues, KCFDC announcements. I suppose you could break each League and Tournament into a separate section, but that might a bit cumbersome and if you have unlimited texts it's not a big deal to receive the extra information. I've been thinking about this for a while now and hopefully something the Tech team can make it a reality.

Another thing regarding the so much bickering that has been on the message board as of late. It reminds me of what I experience at home with my 8 and 10 year old kids. It drives their mother and I absolutely bonkers. They bicker all the time... it's constant, relentless, and does absolutely no good. Please stop. I get enough of this at home, I don't really want to experience it on what I do for fun.

I do think there is a place to offer suggestions on way things can be done better. But often it comes off as complaining. I know I'm guilty of this and some of my suggestions for improvements look like that I'm complaining, but I'm just trying to offer ways to move forward and make a better disc golf experience in Kansas City. I know for me it's very difficult to get tone correct in a post.

And finally, a huge THANKS! to Jack and all of the other volunteers for the KCWO. I had an absolute blast this weekend and one of the most enjoyable tournaments that I have played in. It was about the right amount of golf (that my arm can take), great courses, and smoothly ran. Here's my suggestions. I would really like to watch the Pros play more. My suggestion for next year is that the NT play Fri/Sat/Sun or Sat/Sun, and the A-tier/C-tier play Fri/Sat (maybe 3 rounds, but 4 would be fine too). Just a suggestion not complaining about the way that it was ran in the past. ;)

I have a suggestion for future tournament directors (and league coordinators), and maybe something our Tech team could work on for the entire KCFDC community. A very useful tool would be a text service that you signup for to receive text message updates. ....

Interesting idea. We use this technology at USM to alert students to snow days and other things. I'll look into this and see if it would be feasible to implement this and allow club members the opportunity to "opt in" to receive alerts. Thanks for the suggestion Eric.

was talking about this as well during the rain out with the PDGA's Jason Allind. I think that it is a good way to get the information out there about delays and times. Phones are generally off, so you still need to horn people for getting them off the course, but the notification about when it may resume can be used for this method as well. I did the best I could with Faceblock and the PDGA and KCFDC sites to get the information out once it was looking like a timeline, but having it sent to phones/e-mails was something that I thought made sense and should be relatively easy to complete.

Thanks Kevin for taking this, and Eric thanks for posting it and reminding me about my thoughts. My brain has been a little distracted this week from the events.

Sadly as I read, and I have been guilty as well, I don't often think about my own signature line in the my e-mails. It does though bear notion that at times we must:

"Do not listen to those who weep andcomplain, for their disease is contagious."Og Mandino

Blue Valley-64 (Should have been 66 or 67 in retrospect.....)Swope Gold 2013-64 (Should have been a 64 but I messed up on hole #'s 1 and 15, should have been 3/5 not 4/4)Rosedale-58 (4's on 8, 9, 12 & 18) I realize that 12 is debatable, and should have been a 3WW-55 #6 is a 4 in the configuration

Arm chair QB'in doesn't just happen Sept-Feb, it happens every week in DG, and obviously we have a lot of folks that like to sit in the EZ chair.....

Par for the initial event=241The final 9 was 30 based on #1 being a 4 from the original layout.

Blue Valley-64 (Should have been 66 or 67 in retrospect.....)Swope Gold 2013-64 (Should have been a 64 but I messed up on hole #'s 1 and 15, should have been 3/5 not 4/4)Rosedale-58 (4's on 8, 9, 12 & 18) I realize that 12 is debatable, and should have been a 3WW-55 #6 is a 4 in the configuration

Arm chair QB'in doesn't just happen Sept-Feb, it happens every week in DG, and obviously we have a lot of folks that like to sit in the EZ chair.....

Par for the initial event=241The final 9 was 30 based on #1 being a 4 from the original layout.

Question then, and it doesn't make a flyin' flip to me either way but, are the B Pool's rounds going to be adjusted to the Par equaling the 241 at some point on the PDGA site? I'm sure everyone has seen it by now, and it's not that way currently.

I have a suggestion for future tournament directors (and league coordinators), and maybe something our Tech team could work on for the entire KCFDC community. A very useful tool would be a text service that you signup for to receive text message updates. ....

Interesting idea. We use this technology at USM to alert students to snow days and other things. I'll look into this and see if it would be feasible to implement this and allow club members the opportunity to "opt in" to receive alerts. Thanks for the suggestion Eric.

I've always thought a way to do it would be a twitter account, as well. Publish the handle in the players' book and it could be used not only for weather issues but also for second round tee times and whatnot.

I checked with our Athletics Dept. at PSU and they are going to add me to their system to receive severe warning and lightning updates as far distance from the campus. They use this system for all outside events that pertain to PSU. All they have to do is add my cell phone number to the system and I'll get the info sent to my phone for free too. A perk for working at the university!

I remember checking both facebook and twitter during the rain delay to get updates on the round cancellation. The tech team already made this available to everyone.

I have three main points:1. I wasn't specifically talking about the WO here. I was thinking it might be a nice feature moving forward in all events, even those without poor weather. It would just be nice if you're out somewhere having turned in your card first to be able to check and see when you are supposed to start so you don't get back too early.2. If I were talking about the WO, it (the Twitter handle) could/should have been in the players' book.3. It was an awesome event and I hope it continues to get even better.

I will weigh in on the lightning and storm issue, since I am one that made the call at Rosedale and I'm also likely the only one in this conversation that has a B.S. in meteorology.

I can't speak for what went on at other courses, but I will talk about Rosedale. I had been watching the radar on my phone for about an hour prior to the storm rolling in. I knew the storm was coming, but was not sure exactly when to make the call and radar on a small phone doesn't give you a great impression of the speed of movement of individual cells. There was no lightning at Rosedale until I made the call, and torrential rain was coming down within 10 minutes of the call being made. At the time, I actually thought I was making the call 5-10 minutes early, or at least this was what I intended to do. In retrospect, I wish I had been 5-10 minutes earlier. The storm moved in THAT fast. If I had trouble making the call on time, I imagine that other experienced TDs like Kevin likely had similar issues. I imagine Kevin made the call the best he could, but like me, I'm sure he wishes he made it earlier. Still, we always try to make the call in enough time to get players to safety. Loomis, your point is well taken (although perhaps the acrimony could be turned down a notch) and safety is the primary concern, but also know that seeing a bolt of lightning is not necessarily the trigger to halt play. There are a number of factors to take into account, but the distance of the lightning from the course is also important. I normally won't call it unless lightning is within 4-5 miles, or I know there's going to be a dangerous situation soon (which was the case at Rosey this year). We do sometimes play it a little too close because we also get blasted by players for calling it too early. Still, I always wish to err on caution's side, and I know Kevin does as well.

I have previously advocated for purchasing SkyScan lightning detectors. They are the best detectors on the market, IMHO, and many schools and public agencies use these. We thought about purchasing these for Worlds in 2009, but decided not to at the time because PDGA had a set of those that they bought in 2006 (when I was Competition Director), and we had the use of those for 2009 Worlds. We didn't need those in 2009 as the torrential rain of day 1 that year didn't involve lightning, but we had them at our disposal. I'm not sure if Jason Allind had those at his disposal during the Wide Open this year, but it's something they should still be carrying with them in the PDGA travelling trailer. In any case, we run more events than just NTs and Worlds, so I think we should have at least 2 of them, and we can rely on PDGA for those times we are running more than 2 venues simultaneously.

Thanks for the thoughts, Chappy. I think the idea that I have is that we should use technology as much as possible to remove the decision from the TDs hands. Obviously if it is getting dangerous and there is no indication to call it off they would still have that ability but I think it is important to set a baseline so that if lightning is (insert safe number) away play is halted. That way the TD doesn't have to worry about getting lambasted for calling it too early or too late.

Thanks for the thoughts, Chappy. I think the idea that I have is that we should use technology as much as possible to remove the decision from the TDs hands. Obviously if it is getting dangerous and there is no indication to call it off they would still have that ability but I think it is important to set a baseline so that if lightning is (insert safe number) away play is halted. That way the TD doesn't have to worry about getting lambasted for calling it too early or too late.

Cooper,

Technology is a nice tool to help TDs make judgment calls, but it doesn't always work. In my case at Rosedale, having a SkyScan probably wouldn't have gotten the players off the course any faster, because of the speed of the storm. Folks have to realize that although we do the best job possible to keep players safe, nature is sometimes just unpredictable.

Understood. That is why I think there should be a baseline with skyscan (some expert's opinion of lightning proximity) but still with the option of the TD calling it earlier. I think the current system where it is only on the TD is irresponsible and there should be a baseline but there should also be an expectation that if a cell is moving that quickly the TD can call people off earlier, like you did.

I just think it is easier to scapegoat technology in many cases and it removes that sort of pressured decision-making from the TD and does so in the name of safety. I think we mostly agree on this but just wanted to clarify the distinction that exists in my argument.

They were turned in about a week after the event. Unfortunately the accident at Rosedale did do a little havoc on my ability to get things done in a timely fashion. They were submitted in a timely fashion to the PDGA and I was hopeful that it would have been done in time for the last ratings update. At this point, it is up to the PDGA as to the "official" stamp, but all the information has been in now for over a month.

to the b of d - if I die on a course and I am subsequently unable to renew my annual dues does that mean my stats will be sealed forever in the coffin of the pdga? kinda sucks, as a club we could petition to have all player stats available to anyone, especially potential sponsors, news media, and major sports analysts.

NO worries. It has changed over the years so it was helpful to me as well.

It used to be 1pt=person you beat, then Cx1, Bx2, Ax3, and Majors didn't count. So I was curious as well when I looked at my totals and realized that I am already over 1000 points for the year.... I was wondering the same thing. It does seem odd to me though that they now allow "Majors" to be included in the points. As not everyone is invited, and I understood the logic before that it gives an adverse advantage to those that play in them since the field is typically larger......but then again many things in the PDGA baffle this person's mind....

I wanted to point this out that I made this comment on April 18th of last year (2013) and the chain is STILL missing on this hole. I've let Doug and Dick both know about it, so hoping it is fixed before the tournament. Nothing like throwing a good upshot on this hole that ends up behind the basket and staring at nothing but the pole; no chain.

I wanted to point this out that I made this comment on April 18th of last year (2013) and the chain is STILL missing on this hole. I've let Doug and Dick both know about it, so hoping it is fixed before the tournament. Nothing like throwing a good upshot on this hole that ends up behind the basket and staring at nothing but the pole; no chain.

Nah, we are just going to remove all the chains around the outside to make it uniform.

Ha well I am more than happy to fix it if someone gives me a chain - I'd go buy one but don't know the specifications. I plan to play the course tonight. If you've got spare chain at the shop I can grab one on lunch and gladly do it.

I will get Chains off one of my baskets that was destroyed at Cliff for just such an event. Doug asked me about it yesterday. I will try to grab the chains out of my yard tonight after league and get them on there tomorrow. Thanks for bringing it back up. ;D

Funny enough, I threw an upshot last night that left me a 45 foot jump putt staring right at the missing chains. Luckily the basket caught it anyway! Nonetheless, we should probably get it fixed if at all possible. Thanks Jack!

I will get Chains off one of my baskets that was destroyed at Cliff for just such an event. Doug asked me about it yesterday. I will try to grab the chains out of my yard tonight after league and get them on there tomorrow. Thanks for bringing it back up. ;D