Explain to us how and why your all-knowing benevolent *intelligent designer* designed the systems that allowed thousands of babies to be born with genetic disorders and die from cancer during the past month, and then explain to us how and why the "intelligent design" permits and allows more than 50 % of all human conceptions to fail and spontaneously abort. He's kind of a piss-poor designer now, isn't he ?

Those are due mostly to humans capacities. Mortality rates in infants and fetuses are directly related to the actions and direction of man.

Do you really think that if all people were utterly unified and peaceful and giving to one another that we as a whole wouldn't have found ways to negate such things as infantile desease, birth defects, and the like?

There are multiple causes of infant mortality rates and they are not all directly related to human actions.

(05-01-2017 09:41 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote: Since you couldn't figure it out due to my own inadequacies I'll spell it out; I left it open and in question form and without wholly making conclusions in hopes that one might stumble upon what I was getting at. No doubt a good few did; but lack the decency to man up and even mention it on an intellectual level, let alone actually discuss it.

You can't lead a Socratic dialog without the ability to think clearly and ask coherent questions. Your ill-framed questions did nothing but expose once again your complete lack of understanding of evolution and biology.

(05-01-2017 10:04 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote: I'm just pissy cuz I always come here with this idea that at least someone will admit they can at least see my point. But everyone acts as if they don't for whatever reasons.

When you make a decent point it will be treated as such. When you post a load of misleading crap that doesn't support what you think it does you are going to get ridiculed.

Nothing about a predilection for fatty foods implies intelligent design; it is easily understood by evolutionary processes. In fact, I'd say it is explained better by evolution since you'd have to have a designer that enjoyed the idea of having to kill in order to sustain life. If your god existed he'd be a moral monster.

(06-01-2017 05:35 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote: All I was attempting to say is that it is more than strange how meat with more fatty content also has more flavor and would be easier to spot and hunt and eat.

If you knew more about how evolution worked you would not see anything strange in our dietary preferences. Please show evidence that animals with higher fat content are easier to spot, easier to hunt, or easier to eat. When you make bald claims like that it is incredibly obvious that you haven't got a clue what you are talking about. You've apparently gone from "more fatty content" to "grossly overweight" and that's beyond laughable. Your cartoon version of reality is why nobody takes you seriously.

(06-01-2017 05:49 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote: Easy; there is no particular god. There is only one GOD of creation.

What do you think "particular" means?

Quote:There are multiple reasons why belief in the One Creator GOD would benefit all life as a whole. Namely peace, prosperity and technological and societal advancement behind anything we have seen to date.

In the first place, that's an argument from utility and is a fallacy. First you have to show that your particular god actually exists and then we can look at its attributes. In the second place, you have not demonstrated that believing this god exists would provide any of the benefits you claim.

Quote:There are more, but again; I don't insist any should believe, I insist that people should, without pride, sincerely seek out GOD by whatever means possible for them individually.

Who the fuck are you to insist that anybody does anything? If you want me to seek something you first have to provide some reason to believe it is there to be found. I don't waste my time on wild goose chases from wanna-be cult leaders with marytyr complexes.

(06-01-2017 05:53 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:

(06-01-2017 02:56 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote: You have no point.

Explain to us how and why your all-knowing benevolent *intelligent designer* designed the systems that allowed thousands of babies to be born with genetic disorders and die from cancer during the past month, and then explain to us how and why the "intelligent design" permits and allows more than 50 % of all human conceptions to fail and spontaneously abort. He's kind of a piss-poor designer now, isn't he ?

Those are due mostly to humans capacities. Mortality rates in infants and fetuses are directly related to the actions and direction of man.

You disgusting piece of crap.... in what way are genetic disorders and diseases the result of the actions and direction of man? No man designed cancer or set it up so that genetic mutations occur. Fuck you.

Quote:Do you really think that if all people were utterly unified and peaceful and giving to one another that we as a whole wouldn't have found ways to negate such things as infantile desease, birth defects, and the like?

It certainly sounds like we could make better progress at dealing with things but that does not require a god. It requires education. It requires basing decisions on reality and not fantasy. It requires that people with infantile delusions get the professional help that they need.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP

(06-01-2017 05:53 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote: Those are due mostly to humans capacities. Mortality rates in infants and fetuses are directly related to the actions and direction of man.

Do you really think that if all people were utterly unified and peaceful and giving to one another that we as a whole wouldn't have found ways to negate such things as infantile desease, birth defects, and the like?

There are multiple causes of infant mortality rates and they are not all directly related to human actions.

Because you're too lazy to check on links, I'll make it easy for you, there are multiple and varied reasons for infant mortality, you can not say it is directly because of human actions.

This smacks of the Adam and Eve original sin nonsense, which is fundamentally flawed as any kind of explanation for suffering.

Has little to do with Adam and Eve.

The particular circumstances of our existence at this time are wholly due to the actions of man. Mortality rate of both infants and people in general is wholly representative of the actions of man. Even environmental circumstances to some point, or rather, the mortality related to them are due to man and their lack of unity and compassion. Technological and social advancement could all but wholly negate even the worst circumstances, not bringing about immortality, as all readily observable things die.

I don't radiate those things at this time. They are things to keep close and to reflect on as often as possible, and to act on at every conceivable junction. Those things will radiate off of me eventually, but now it is enough, and good to just attempt to keep them as virtues in all things. This can be difficult at times.

You don't radiate peace and hope, ever. Not even a little bit.

Your rage would be less annoying if it was combined with any coherence of thought or effort at communication, though. I think your god must be unhappy that you are so lazy that you can't be bothered to edit your thoughts before you post.

You dismiss critiques of your presentation (grammar and spelling, for example), but the presentation is important. You're trying to assert that your boeuf bourguignon tastes the best, but we can't get over the fact that you're serving it on a chipped, shit-stained plate.

Because you're too lazy to check on links, I'll make it easy for you, there are multiple and varied reasons for infant mortality, you can not say it is directly because of human actions.

This smacks of the Adam and Eve original sin nonsense, which is fundamentally flawed as any kind of explanation for suffering.

Has little to do with Adam and Eve.

The particular circumstances of our existence at this time are wholly due to the actions of man. Mortality rate of both infants and people in general is wholly representative of the actions of man. Even environmental circumstances to some point, or rather, the mortality related to them are due to man and their lack of unity and compassion. Technological and social advancement could all but wholly negate even the worst circumstances, not bringing about immortality, as all readily observable things die.

Busy now

How are genetic diseases "wholly representative of the actions of man"?
How are infectious diseases "wholly representative of the actions of man"?
How are autoimmune diseases "wholly representative of the actions of man"?

You are utterly delusional.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.

(06-01-2017 02:18 AM)Deesse23 Wrote: You want to be taken serious Pops? Here you go:

Lets assume, there is a creative force behind evolution an abiogenesis. What makes you think its your particular god in your particular version of god, and why should we believe it?

Easy; there is no particular god. There is only one GOD of creation.

Why should you believe in IT?

I'm not insisting any should believe in it based on my words. There are multiple reasons why belief in the One Creator GOD would benefit all life as a whole. Namely peace, prosperity and technological and societal advancement behind anything we have seen to date.

There are more, but again; I don't insist any should believe, I insist that people should, without pride, sincerely seek out GOD by whatever means possible for them individually.

So this God critter creates a world full of savagery, predation, disease, and parasites? Sounds more like a natural world with no God but biological opportunism. And this God critter, every time somebody tries to define it, it seems to dissolve into a mass of contradictions, logical dead ends and silliness.

Seeking out God doesn't seem to help with belief in God unless you do a sloppy job of it.

“It is impossible for someone to lie unless he thinks he knows the truth. Producing bullshit requires no such conviction.”
― Harry G. Frankfurt, On Bullshit

(06-01-2017 07:34 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote: Has little to do with Adam and Eve.

The particular circumstances of our existence at this time are wholly due to the actions of man. Mortality rate of both infants and people in general is wholly representative of the actions of man. Even environmental circumstances to some point, or rather, the mortality related to them are due to man and their lack of unity and compassion. Technological and social advancement could all but wholly negate even the worst circumstances, not bringing about immortality, as all readily observable things die.

Busy now

How are genetic diseases "wholly representative of the actions of man"?
How are infectious diseases "wholly representative of the actions of man"?
How are autoimmune diseases "wholly representative of the actions of man"?

You are utterly delusional.

Oo! Oo! Oo! I know! Original sin. It's all our fault, not God's.

“It is impossible for someone to lie unless he thinks he knows the truth. Producing bullshit requires no such conviction.”
― Harry G. Frankfurt, On Bullshit

(06-01-2017 02:18 AM)Deesse23 Wrote: You want to be taken serious Pops? Here you go:

Lets assume, there is a creative force behind evolution an abiogenesis. What makes you think its your particular god in your particular version of god, and why should we believe it?

Easy; there is no particular god. There is only one GOD of creation.

Why should you believe in IT?

I'm not insisting any should believe in it based on my words. There are multiple reasons why belief in the One Creator GOD would benefit all life as a whole. Namely peace, prosperity and technological and societal advancement behind anything we have seen to date.

There are more, but again; I don't insist any should believe, I insist that people should, without pride, sincerely seek out GOD by whatever means possible for them individually.

So to my question of what particular god your god is you tell me it is no particlar god but the GOD of creation?. Sorry, no sale, you need more than bold letters to convince me. That was a non-argument. In fact the worst argument i hav eever seen (bold letters ).

I should believe in it (that god you cant even properly define), because...peace and prosperity? Seriously?

You are not insisting...but get all aggravated when we tell why we we dont buy this? You dont insist we believe but insist we seek out? Fuck off, arrogant, prideful and dishonest fucker. Dont tell me i am prideful because i dont follow your orders, asshole.

Let me ask you again, based on the premise i gave you, "a creative force" created everything:
Why is it a GOD? Why is it a being at all? Why do you claim to know its anything more than a "creative force", which you stated at the start of this conversation?
What is a god anyway? (please dont start with "being...outside of space and time", since you cant explain to me how someting/body can be outside of space and time). Oh...and writing his name in bold letters wont make a difference, i want a job description, just to let you know. Why does belief in that "creative force" lead to peace and all that shit?You dont get to just throw assertions around ans insist on what i do. I insist you answer my questions!

Give me a fucking good reason to believe GOD exists
Because i asked you and you still havent.

(06-01-2017 05:49 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote: Why should you believe in IT?

I'm not insisting any should believe in it based on my words.

Then why are you so agitated after we explained to you why we dont believe?

(06-01-2017 05:49 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote: There are multiple reasons why belief in the One Creator GOD would benefit all life as a whole. Namely peace, prosperity and technological and societal advancement behind anything we have seen to date.

Sorry, demonstration please that belief in any god leads to /equals peace, etc..
Demonstration first, please, that the "creative force" we started with is a GOD.

What we can demontrate, contrary to your belief, is the exact opposite of what you claim. Unfounded, fundamentalist belief in a god severly hampers a societies progress in general (Europe in the middle ages, while Islam flourished, Islam now where the west flourishes). A whole lot of Africa, starting with Nigeria, Egypt, etc. everywhere you see religion in control of signnficant aspects of a society, you see poverty and suffering and ignorance to an astonishing degree.

(06-01-2017 05:49 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote: There are more, but again; I don't insist any should believe, I insist that people should, without pride, sincerely seek out GOD by whatever means possible for them individually.

You insist that people should seek god? Isnt that a horrible mixture of ignorance, dishonesty and arrogance?Arrogant, because you insist i do something you want me to do (and i clearly can demonstrate to be stupid). Especially since, you have demonstrated to hve not many clues about anything. Considering this, insisting that i am listening to the advice of somebody who is clearly an (ignorant) idiot (sorry, but that is a demonstrable fact, not an insult now), is pretty offensive and arrogant to me.Ignorant, because you insist i do someting unreasonable and irrationalDishonest because you hint at pride, if i dont follow on what you insist.

How about you let me seek out for what is real and true? How about i insist on you looking out for a connection to reality rather than looking for confirmation of your delusion? Because....pride, you know? Because thats much more intellectually honest to do. You dont go tell me what or whom to seek for, mkay?...and then get all aggravated and tell me I am proud or insincere for not following your ord..erm advice, mkay?

I say it again: Somebody arrogantly, insincerely and proudly telling me i should seek out something he can give me no good reason to believe in in the first place can go and...you know what