transcript

2-3: Iran v. Nike, Iceland Rising, and the Goal That Shook the Earth

[00:00:07] David Goldblatt: Welcome back to Game of Our Lives. I'm David Goldblatt. It's the first week of the World Cup. An awful lot of games have been played and here to revel in it, explore it, talk about it, and deconstruct it is my man Al Jazeera journalist Tony Karon. Hello Tony.

[00:00:23] TK: Hello David.

[00:00:24] DG: And the man at the dials Raja Shah. Are you there, Raja Shah?

[00:00:27] RS: I am here David, reporting for duty.

[00:00:29] DG: And what duty it's been this weekend. The World Cup has brought us an enormous variety of different games. We've had the classically dull one nil victory for Sweden over South Korea by a penalty. We've had the endlessly disappointing spectacle of Nigeria again underperforming. We've had the sublime beauty of a truly great football match between Spain and Portugal. We've had the fabulous upset of Iceland 1 Argentina 1. And best of all, surely the best upset of this World Cup so far, Mexico Germany one nil to El Tri. Tony I was following you on social media during that game and you were, to say the least, excited. How did it go for you?

[00:01:12] TK: Well I'm glad that in our preview of the match I called out Chucky Lozano because El Chucky delivered. That was an absolutely spectacular game of football. It was a brilliant piece of coaching and tactical preparation. But the most beautiful thing I saw around that game was somebody on Twitter posting this video of their abuela, their grandmother, literally during the anthem standing in front of the TV screen and making the sign of the cross - blessing each of those players. Talk about breaking the fourth wall. This is being there. This is the digital game as we know it now.

[00:01:46] DG: What I loved at the end of that sequence Tony is how she did the last kind of cross and then she just like walked away. Job done. Finished. And off she went. I mean-

[00:01:55] TK: She did do a double blessing on Guillermo Ochoa though and he did play the game of his life.

[00:02:00] DG: Okay maybe she needs to keep up with that in the second and third game. What did you make of Germany though? I mean the world champions, the number one in the FIFA rankings, and yet when it actually came to it there didn't seem to be a great deal of creativity. There didn't even seem to be much of a plan towards the end other than banging a lot of crosses in.

[00:02:19] TK : Well yeah and I have to say, maybe it's a question of desire. Maybe this German team has won too much together. You look at Thomas Muller and you're like you again? Are you still here? Like it's not really regenerating. This is a team of players that have been around for forever. They've won just about everything. The Mexicans certainly wanted that game more.

[00:02:38] DG: Yeah you could see it was, the way that the speed in which people were moving into the spaces behind the German midfield. I mean actually if they were really good at counter attacking they should have been three, four nil up from the kind of chances they were creating.

[00:02:51] TK: Exactly. It's not like their forwards are particularly efficient you know as you say they could have won that game by two or three goals and I think I would have to revise my estimate that Germany start this tournament as favorites because you know, was that just a hiccup that you sometimes see at the start of the tournament?

[00:03:08] DG: Believe me nobody in, nobody here is writing the Germans off right now. Meantime as has been widely reported the celebrations in Mexico City when that goal went in were so extraordinarily large that we actually got earthquake sensors going off. And I note that you know we are in the middle of a Mexican election campaign and the front runner Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador you know had one of his biggest rallies before that game. Walks off, and then Mexico go and perform fantastically. I wonder if this is a herald of the changing of the guard in Mexico at the same time.

[00:03:45] TK: Yes I think that earthquake may not be the last one we see there may be a political earthquake. Of course Lopez Obrador might actually say that if you had video assisted refereeing in Mexico elections he would have won last time.

[00:03:57] DG: Raja have you been following any of this?

[00:04:01] RS: Uh, well you know, Mexico-Germany, I have to admit I was a bad student and 8am on a Sunday was a little bit early, and yet the game came to me anyway because I was woken up by the sound of these blood-curdling screams coming from the alley behind my house and I was-

[00:04:15]: DG: What, do you live in Mexico City?

[00:04:16]: RS: Well I live in the Mission district, which is a Mexican-American enclave in San Francisco going back for decades and after about a minute I was like, oh right, Mexico has scored a goal. And sure enough, yeah, that was about 8:30 in the morning. Yeah it was crazy. It was crazy.

[00:04:31]: DG: Okay next time, next time Mexico are playing dude you need to be up.

[00:04:35]: RS: Set the alarm.

[00:04:36] We must speak a little Tony about Portugal Spain. I mean rarely actually in international football or indeed at a World Cup and certainly in the opening rounds do you see a game simply so absolutely brilliant. I mean spellbindingly good. As good as anything pretty much I've seen in the Champions League this year. How was it for you?

[00:04:55] TK: Absolutely. I think it's very rare that you get a showcase of these two contrasting styles that are both at the top of the European game right now. So essentially what you were looking at was José Mourinho versus Pep Guardiola in a way. Spain was playing a progressive possession game you know not not ticky tacky for its own sake holding onto the ball but moving that ball forward creating opportunities a lot of short passing in ridiculously small spaces. It was one of those like it takes your breath away it's like ole ole. Absolutely. You are seeing something special and then you see the Mourinho park the bus and then you know the lightning counter attack. Absolutely brilliant brilliant exposition of that style. And then you also see the kind of what we would call in the old British tradition the Roy of the Rovers tradition where one man makes a huge huge difference. Cristiano Ronaldo really wins that game single handedly in a way that's not- it becomes less and less possible in today's game.

[00:05:52] DG: Well he doesn't win it Tony, I mean he gets a 3 3 but hey that's pretty good 1 man against 11 and that as you say is one of the joys of that game is not merely the contrast in style but it's that balance that football has between being a team game and a game that showcases a brilliant individual and it can do both. And here we had both going on at the same time. I thought the sign off from that free kick, I mean how he got it over the wall and down and yet there was something in his eyes there is something extraordinary in Ronaldo's eyes before he takes a free kick or a penalty. And you just kind of know when it's going in when you see it.

[00:06:30] TK: Absolutely. The body language and the desire.

[00:06:32] DG: Talking of desire we simply must talk a little bit about Argentina Iceland. One one. Who would have thought. Absolutely extraordinary performance from Iceland. I read that ninety nine point six percent of the television audience was watching that game back home. And one of the players later tweeted the other nought point four percent must have been on the field. What a game. What did you make of it Tony?

[00:06:57] TK: That was amazing I think that it's hard not to love Iceland particularly this idea that this is a bunch of guys who have played together since they were 12 years old. It's almost like the school team made it all the way to the World Cup like they've known each other forever. They're friends, they take vacations together and you know here they are basically confounding what are one of the favorites going into the tournament. Confounding Messi just by the set up, the dedication, the determination, the athleticism that they bring. And really I think they exposed some fundamental weaknesses that we've seen many times from Argentina being less than the sum of their parts that you know. I'm beginning to think like where's the Riquelme. And where's-

[00:07:31] DG: Yeah an Argentina without a playmaker. I'm really struggling, you know when Mascherano you know is the heart really of the midfield you know, you know you're not going anywhere.

[00:07:45] TK: Right.

[00:07:47] DG: As much as I love Masha As much as I love him, don't get me wrong. But if you're looking for kind of creativity and forward movement it's not happening.

[00:08:01]: DG: One game that we haven't talked about so far that brought me particular pleasure was Iran Morocco. And Iran Morocco was won one nil in the ninety fifth minute by a devastating, unjust, unfair, and utterly delicious own goal by Morocco giving Iran only their second victory in a World Cup match. There are so many reasons to be talking about Iran at this World Cup both on the pitch and off the pitch and I'm delighted to say that our guest today is Mani Djazmi. He's a football journalist born in Iran currently living and working in London for the BBC. He's out in Russia right now living the life and generally on the move. I'm really pleased that he managed to find a few minutes so we could catch up.

[00:08:50]: DG: Are we all good?

[00:08:51]: Mani Djazmi: Uh, yes, that’s better. That’s better, yes.

[00:08:54] DG: Mani thank you so much for joining us on the show. Where are you at the moment and hat are you doing?

[00:08:59] MD: Well I'm currently on a train between Moscow and St. Petersburg. I've based in St. Petersburg for this coming week with the Russian team to follow them. But I took a quick trip to Moscow just for the day. It's only four hours on a train. I say only - I'm already adjusted to the vast distances of Russia. But I took a quick trip to interview the Iran coach Carlos Queiroz today. But now I'm sitting on the train back to St. Pete.

[00:09:26] DG: I have a real soft spot for late and unjust own goals. I wonder in the light of Iran Morocco how you feel about that in football?

[00:09:36] MG: Well it was late David but I'm not sure if it was unjust. I thought on the basis of the game, well the first half anyway, Iran had the better chances. The second half was completely tedious and I was just preparing a tweet winging about the lack of development in Africa and Asia because these were the two best teams from those continents really, when that goal went in. And when it did go in there was just an eruption of emotion not just amongst the Iran fans but also obviously the neutrals. I mean who doesn't like a dramatic late winner. It's such a great way to win a football match with the last kick of the game. Absolutely superb.

[00:010:19] DG: Isn't it just! Isn't it just! It was like Iran had won the World Cup. You know, they’d won the first game in the group but they like won the World Cup. The tears of the team. The emotion was just extraordinary.

[00:10:34] MD: It was and it was only the second time that Iran had won a match in the World Cup that's why it meant so much. It wasn't just another World Cup group match. It was the second time in their entire history that they'd won a World Cup match 20 years after the first one.

[00:10:47] DG: Right, back in 1998 was the last time they won a game actually at the World Cup.

[00:10:52] MD: Yeah against the United States.

[00:10:54] DG: So did you get any sense of how this was greeted back in Iran in Tehran? I understand that there were plans to allow people to go to the Azadi and have a kind of big outdoor viewing of the game that were cancelled at the last moment. People were kind of restricted to cafes and cinemas. Did you get a sense of how people responded at the end of the game there?

[00:11:16] MD: They were literally dancing on the streets of Tehran and all the other major cities. I've seen clips on Twitter, the men and women dancing together as they often have done in the past when Iran have qualified for the World Cup. And I got some WhatsApp voice messages from my cousins in Esfahan, and you could hear the beeping in the background and they were just screaming down the phone at me. So whether they were in the Azadi or not it didn't really matter because when the goal went in they were all on the streets.

[00:11:49] DG: And how did the authorities react to this? Because you know in official terms men and women should not be dancing together in the streets. So how do they respond on these occasions? Do they just stand off and let the people have their space?

[00:12:03] MD: Well how can they respond when there are millions and millions of people on the streets? And there are far more people on the streets celebrating than there are trying to keep things in check. It is impossible to control.

[00:12:17] DG: I seem to recall back in 2014 that President Rouhani was tweeting himself rather than in clerical robes in his Team Melli kit. I'm wondering are we seeing similar kind of statements from Iranian politicians this time around?

[00:12:31] MD: Well I don't know about that but I think if Iran get a result of any description against Spain or Portugal, if they go into the last game in the group against Portugal with a chance of qualifying, which I think they will now, then the football bandwagon will have to make room for one politician after another as they all squeeze on an attempt to get their faces in the photo.

[00:12:55] DG: What a very familiar story. Tell me how do people feel about this team in particular? We got quite a few players who've come from the diaspora, the huge Iranian diaspora. Players like Ghoddos for example or Dejagah I think you pronounce it. How does the homeland perceive diasporic players?

[00:13:17] MD: Well this is something that's taken a long time to come round to Iran's team. I mean if you look at Morocco's team, I mean barely any of them were born in Morocco. Herve Renard, their French coach, has to give his team talks in English and French because you know that's that's the language in which those players speak because most of them grew up in Holland or France. This didn't happen to Iran until 2006 when a player who was half German half Iranian was drafted into the World Cup squad at the last moment. And that was a very controversial move. It was very divisive. But that's very much in the past. All of these players are accepted and loved. You know Iran is proud that Saman Ghoddos who's had such a good season in Sweden is now a member of their team. So there is absolutely no problem with any of them. They have been embraced as if they were born and bred in Tehran and never left the street in which they were born.

[00:14:12] DG: It strikes me as so hard for Iran as a team to escape global geopolitical narratives when they're playing. On this occasion, Nike come out before the first game and say, you can't have the boots guys. The new sanctions imposed by the Trump regime mean we can't supply you even though you know they've been supplying Team Melli forever. What did people in Iran make of that gesture? How did that go down?

[00:14:39] MD: Well I think that story has been rather misrepresented. What happened was, someone called Ghoddos who you've just been talking about, he had a sponsorship with Nike for his boots but when he switched his citizenship from Swedish to Iranian in order to play for Iran then he personally was subject to the sanctions because he was an Iranian citizen. And for Nike to continue supplying him and to have a financial transaction with him would have been to risk prison sentence, millions of dollars of fines. But they didn't say to him give us our boots back. I mean he was wearing Nike boots today in training, I was there.

[00:15:24] DG: Right.

[00:15:25] MD: And he wasn't the only one. So it wasn't the case that you know Nike turned up at the hotel and forcibly chopped off the laces of their boots. Nothing like that at all.

[00:15:35] DG: Okay that is so interesting because that is absolutely not the impression that most of the stories that are flying around are giving. I will say though the best response I saw to this on Twitter today was people posting ‘Just do it colon but without you.’ Which I thought was just a great way of putting it.

[00:15:54]: MD: Yeah

[00:15:55] DG: When we're talking about Iranian football often the discussion comes back to the place of women in the game and it seems that even here at the men's World Cup, quite a few folks turned up at the Iran Morocco game with banners protesting the exclusion of women from stadiums in Iran and indeed Open Stadiums is a whole network of activists who use Team Melli's away games to publicize this issue.

[00:16:20] MD: I actually met the lady behind the Open Stadium's Twitter feed on Saturday in St. Petersburg. And it was the first time that she had seen Iran play live in the flesh. It was the first time that she'd been to a men's game in her life.

[00:16:35] DG: Wow.

[00:016:36] MD: And she said she didn't know how to cheer because she'd only ever seen football on TV and she'd had an idea of what an atmosphere was like, but it was completely different when she was there and she said it was so noisy, so loud that she- her ears were ringing afterwards and as she was climbing the steps to her seat she kept stopping and looking back and just looking down at all the fans behind her. She was like you and I were David the first time we went to a match whenever that was for you. I was about 10 or something. And you know she was wide eyed and she still couldn't believe that she'd been there 24 hours on.

[00:17:15] DG: And what a game! What a game for the first, for your first game to go to.

[00:17:20] MD: I know, yeah.

[00:17:22] DG: I mean my first game was a really miserable friendly between England and Scotland at Wembley that was so bad my old man made us leave before the end.

[00:17:28] MD: Yeah well mine was mine was a game at the old Zenith Data Systems Cup which doesn't exist anymore between Leeds United and Charlton. But her first game was the World Cup victory for Iran.

[00:17:39] DG: Well she deserves it! What sort of support do you think that she is getting amongst the diaspora and back in Iran? How is this read?

[00:17:47] MD: Oh lots of support. Lots of support both at home and abroad. In fact a few days ago Ali Daei the Iranian legend, the striker who scored more international goals than any other man in history. He came out and said it's time that women were allowed into the stadiums. Many other top players, many of the current squad have said the same thing. But it's not a football issue it's a political issue. The Iran Football Federation have absolutely no power in this debate and neither have FIFA. You know there's a lot of criticism for FIFA for not stepping in and doing more. But this goes up to the very highest echelons of the Iranian government. You know it's in the hands of the supreme leader. And it doesn't matter what FIFA say. They cannot overcome that.

[00:18:35] DG: What about within Iran? I mean even within the most conservative forces. Is there a sense of any movement or reinterpretation of the theology that might make possible an easier environment for mixed viewing?

[00:18:49] MD: Um I doubt it. I mean you know Iran's, one of- I was going to say Iran's great enemy but they have several. But one of them is Saudi Arabia. And you know they allowed women into the stadiums in January and you would think that you know that might cause some kind of a jolt in Iran but it hasn't. And you know the conservative element of Iranian politics is genuinely conservative. And no I don't sense any kind of movement towards that. I mean Gianni Infantino the president of FIFA was in Iran last month, a few weeks ago, and you know he brought this up. And I mean what is he supposed to do. I mean if FIFA ban Iran, what what do they think the supreme ruler is going to do?

[00:19:37] DG: Exactly.

[00:19:38] MD: I mean is he going to say suddenly say ‘Oh the national team can't play football anymore ok we'll change everything.’ I mean that's not going to happen.

[00:19:40] DG: Absolutely. No, no. This is going to have to come from within. I thought it was so interesting-.

[00:19:52] MD: Sorry David, there's another announcement.

[00:11:53] (Train announcement).

[00:19:56] MD: OK.

[00:19:57] DG: OK, Mani it was so interesting to hear you talk about the woman from Open Stadiums and her first game is a men's game at the World Cup and you had a funny way of kind of doing it the other way around as a man who was the first to see a women's game or a women's football practice in Iran. And I wonder how did that come about and what did you make of that?

[00:20:21] MD: Well this was back in 2004. So I got a number of a coach who was coaching one of the clubs in Tehran and I introduced myself we had a chat and I said can I come and record your training just so I can have some atmos- atmosphere for my report. And she said well you're a man, how are you going to come? Men aren't allowed into women's football. And I said well there are two reasons why I think you should let me come. One is I've come all the way from London. And two is that I'm totally blind so I won't be able to see your players. And she paused for a bit and she said OK. All right you can come.

[00:20:57] DG: Can't argue with that.

[00:20:58] MD: No.

[00:20:59] DG: I just wonder if you can give a sense when you're in the stadium you know, how are you doing your reporting? How are you following the game? What are you tuning into? You know how do you do it?

[00:21:10] MD: Well if I'm at a match for work then I have someone with me who commentates for me. If it's in a country where I don't understand the language and there's a lot of preparation that goes into it. I mean I have you know a good knowledge of a lot of players, what kind of players they are, where they play, the tactics of the team, the tactics of the coach. So for example I mean if there's a left winger who is up against a right back who I know to be particularly aggressive in the challenge then I will keep a mental note of that. And if at some point that right back gets booked, then I'll know to ask what kind of a challenge it was. So you know I have to do a lot more preparation I suppose than sighted people when they go to report on matches. They can pick stuff up as they're watching it. You know if they have never seen these players they can gauge pretty early on what kind of players they are. But I need to know what kind of players they are before the match kicks off.

[00:22:07] DG: And are you also, are you, do you find yourself you're particularly tuned to the sounds of the stadium as well?

[00:22:14] MD: Yeah I mean you can gauge to a degree, it gives you it gives you a kind of a guide a loose guide but no more than that.

[00:22:20] DG: Final question, Mani. Iran have opened, you've got three points, still got two incredibly difficult I mean impossible games really. Spain, Portugal to come, what do you think the chances of Iran making it through to the next round are?

[00:22:36] MD: Well I think with these three points I think it will go down to the wire. Possibly for all four teams. I was with Carlos Queiroz today, the coach, and I said to him what do you think about Spain then? What are your tactics going to be? And he laughed. So he was he was obviously wasn't going to tell me that but he did say we're going to need about 16 players and all of them are going to have to run like two players. They are very very difficult games. I suspect he'd take a draw if he got one against Spain and then maybe aim for Portugal's slightly dodgy defense at the end although they have the magic man who could beat anyone on his own, Ronaldo. But you know four years ago Iran played Argentina in the group. Argentina who got to the final and lost in the extra time to Germany. And but for a stupendous Lionel Messi goal in the 91st minute they would have got a draw out of that game. So I wouldn't put it past them to get a draw out of Spain. And you know to just block them up.

[00:23:41] DG: Nothing wrong with that. I'm all for blocking out.

[00:23:42] MD: Absolutely. I mean you play to your strengths.

[00:23:46] DG: Well let's hope that the blocking works. Let's hope they squeeze some points out of their Iberian opponents. It's been lovely talking to you Mani thank you so much for joining us.

[00:23:56] MD: No thank you for your inviting me, David. It was a pleasure.

[00:23:59] DG: Hope to talk to you again.

[00:24:06] DG: You can follow Mani on Twitter at BBC underscore Mani. That's BBC underscore Mani, M A N I. Tony, what did you make of what Mani was saying about the Iranian camp?

[00:24:20] TK: I have to say I'm looking forward to a little more reporting on this Iran Nike deal. I think there may be more going on than simply one, one player's sponsorship deal and certainly the response from Carlos Queiroz and from you know the Iranian football authorities suggest there might be more going on. But the other thing I'd say on this is that this is a fascinating World Cup in that it's shown us that if your players have a basic level of technical competence you can set up in a way that will make it really difficult for the most powerful teams in the world to beat you. Very little teams like Iceland you know like, like Iran can actually hold at bay these these mighty football powers particularly if they don't really have a plan B for unlocking a defense that's basically sending back.

[00:25:04] DG: I'm particularly concerned that that scenario might pertain for Tunisia versus England and I should say that we are recording this at approximately 6:00 p.m. GMT. We have one hour before England take the field. I have to admit I am getting my usual completely irrational surge of English optimism at this point but we should wrap this up no, Raja?

[00:25:29] TK: I thought you were trying to say that England might be parking the bus-

[00:25:31] DG: Oh no

[00:25:33] TK: And thwarting Tunisia.

[00:25:36] DG: Hey, bless England. One thing this England team will not do is park the bus. They really haven't got the equipment for it have they. Let's let's be honest.

[00:25:44] RS: Well hang on. Before we go we do have to get to our what to watch for today.

[00:25:47] DG: OK.

[00:25:48] RS: Let's go ahead and hear our bumper.

(Bumper plays)

[00:25:55] RS: So I think there were like 13 games since our last episode and maybe another 9 before our next one is coming out. So yes the need for curation is clear and I'm coming to you guys again for your guidance. What should I watch? Tony let's start with you.

[00:26:07] TK: Well as we were saying earlier the Argentina Croatia game will be fascinating. This is an Argentina team that's now had its nose bloodied. It's under immense immense pressure back home. Maradona has basically told the coach don't even come home if you can't raise your game like this. And what they suffered against Iceland was basically being unable to beat a team that is spoiling their game plan. Croatia was very workmanlike against Nigeria, nothing special but you know that in that midfield they have the capacity to thwart Argentina and particularly with Argentina's lack of creative resources. So you know I think this is a must win for Argentina now and this could very easily prove to be another disaster for Argentina.

[00:26:46] DG: Tony what about a shout out for Poland Senegal. And I say that because like we're waiting for an African team to really deliver. And you know I've got to say what a soft spot I have for Sadio Mane Senegal's leading striker fabulous for Liverpool this season. I'm really hoping that he can show what he's made of and actually get an African team a victory here.

[00:27:09] TK: Absolutely. I think you know there's no question for me from the beginning that Africa's hopes at this tournament are being carried by Senegal. It's not only Sadio Mane as fabulous Sadio Mane is, he's got (Diafra Sakho) next to him. And one of the most coveted centre backs in Europe Kalidou Koulibaly you're talking about a very very tough team and a team with a lot of flair, a lot of explosive firepower, and a very solid defensive call. My greatest moment in World Cup history would be when Papa Bouba Diop scrambled the ball across the line in 2002. And I screamed so loud my son was absolutely terrified he'd never seen such a visceral reaction from me. I am hoping that Senegal is going to give us the best performance of any African team and the whole continent is behind them. Senegal is flying the flag for Africa.

[00:27:59] RS: David what about you, what are you going to be looking for?

[00:28:02] DG: Well I'm spending a little bit of my time, rather than watching just what's going on on the pitch, watching who's commentating and calling on these games around the world. So my segment today is more who to watch and just to let people know for the first time in my experience you've really got a change in the gender balance of who is commentating, presenting, and calling these games. I mean it particularly you know came to mind because Eni Aluko the ex England International is one of the cohosts on ITV here in England and there was a moment where her cohost Patrice Evra was fabulously condescending and patronizing to her. And you could see that came from a place of insecurity because she knew what she was talking about. She'd done her homework and bless Patrice Evra, he really hadn't done his homework and he doesn't know what he's talking about. But that aside she's been great. You know we're going to have Vicki Sparks on the BBC being the first woman to call a World Cup game here. In the United States we've had Aly Wagner a former star from the U.S. women's national team who's become the first woman to call a men's World Cup on U.S. television. We also have Hanna Marklund in Sweden and of course we have Lise Klaveness calling games for NRK in Norway. So I'll be really interested to hear from our listeners are there other examples of this? Do we have a real breakthrough in the press box and in the TV studio at this World Cup? I'm certainly seeing signs and they're welcome signs.

[00:29:35] RS: All right. Now I think you do actually, I'm worried about you and England Tunisia so we should probably wrap it up.

[00:29:41] DG: Yeah I'm worried too. There needs to be a whole period of meditation and calmness before the storm begins. So without further ado I will say this show is the production of Al Jazeera's Jetty Studios recorded at the Sound Town studios in Bristol UK. Our music as ever is by Bang Data. Remember we are coming out twice a week now during the World Cup and we'll be back on Friday. The best way to get new episodes of this show is to subscribe if you haven't already. Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Follow us on Twitter. We're at at Game of our Lives and it just remains to say. Thank you very much Tony Karon.

[00:30:17] TK: Always.

[00:30:18] DG: And thank you very much Raja Shah.

[00:30:20] RS: Thanks David.

[00:30:21] DG: I'm David Goldblatt and we'll see you on Friday.

[00:30:31] TK: I think Belgium just scored - ah Romelu scored again! I have to turn off the TV now.