Certainly where I work, some nights we have a local (licenced) shooter who comes on site controlling feral animals.

I think you mean to say he is killing the animals. Please don't employ euphemisms that trivialize or attempt to conceal violence.

I don't condone what he does and I don't employ him. "Controlling feral animals" is not a euphemism - it is what it is.kind regards,

Ben

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.” - Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:in mountain clefts and chasms,loud gush the streamlets,but great rivers flow silently.- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Cittasanto wrote:so with no modification (of use or power) the gun could not turned on a person and not cause (at least) injury?although in this case as you are describing on a range, like I said that is (in my opinion) up to the person, but will only point to my earlier post quoted also. for my having a weapon (its design & purpose) while on the path is antithetical.

With no modification one's large butcher knife can be used to stab someone to death. Without any modification one's cricket bat can be used to bludgeon another to death and on and on.

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

>> Do you see a man wise[enlightened/ariya]in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<<-- Proverbs 26:12

Certainly where I work, some nights we have a local (licenced) shooter who comes on site controlling feral animals.

I think you mean to say he is killing the animals. Please don't employ euphemisms that trivialize or attempt to conceal violence.

I don't condone what he does and I don't employ him. "Controlling feral animals" is not a euphemism - it is what it is.kind regards,

Ben

I'm glad you don't condone the killing. You are wrong about that euphemism. Replacing language that has to do with death and killing with a euphemistic word like control is the quintessential example of euphemism.

eu·phe·mism/ˈyo͞ofəˌmizəm/Noun: A mild or indirect word or expression for one too harsh or blunt when referring to something unpleasant or embarrassing.

Last edited by rowboat on Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

Rain soddens what is covered up,It does not sodden what is open.Therefore uncover what is coveredThat the rain will not sodden it. Ud 5.5

and you have repeatedly misrepresented what I have said from the start. so I highly doubt you know you do.

Visakhuposatha Sutta wrote:"'For all their lives the arahants dwell having abandoned killing living beings, refrain from killing living beings, they have laid down their staffs, laid down their weapons, they are conscientious, sympathetic, compassionate for the good of all living beings;

That certainly would apply if I pointed my gun at living beings with the intent to kill them, but since I do not, it certainly does not apply,

It says "they have laid down their staffs... weapons" it doesn't say anything about continued use of such weapons after.

and no one here has made a definitive, unassailable argument that it does apply, though you have voiced your opinion on the matter of this text. The context is quite clear, having to to do with killing, which I do not do.

the context is actually widened to more than just killing alone, or is "conscientious, sympathetic, compassionate for the good of all living beings" only about not killing, and not about other forms of ahimsa?

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them. But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion … ...He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.John Stuart Mill

Cittasanto wrote:so with no modification (of use or power) the gun could not turned on a person and not cause (at least) injury?although in this case as you are describing on a range, like I said that is (in my opinion) up to the person, but will only point to my earlier post quoted also. for my having a weapon (its design & purpose) while on the path is antithetical.

With no modification one's large butcher knife can be used to stab someone to death. Without any modification one's cricket bat can be used to bludgeon another to death and on and on.

Actually that would be a modification of purpose. I have highlighted the relevant line you missed!

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them. But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion … ...He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.John Stuart Mill

and you have repeatedly misrepresented what I have said from the start. so I highly doubt you know you do.

If I have misrepresented what you said, my apologies. Sometimes, however, you are not very clear in what you say.

" it doesn't say anything about continued use of such weapons after.

It doesn't. And since the gun is longer being used to kill animals or people, it is not used to intimidate anyone, it is not an issue.

the context is actually widened to more than just killing alone, or is "conscientious, sympathetic, compassionate for the good of all living beings" only about not killing, and not about other forms of ahimsa?

Yes, and the non-lethal, non-harming use of a gun for recreational use is not an issue.

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

>> Do you see a man wise[enlightened/ariya]in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<<-- Proverbs 26:12

Doshin wrote:I'm not sure what you want to state by this. I only wanted to express my belief that reaching for a gun in the imaginary setup, I find it most likely to bring more killing/harming, then if one where to take a more mindfull approach.

Except, you do not know that. You can only hope that that would be so.

I have never claimed to know it for a fact. So your statement is void.

Cittasanto wrote:so with no modification (of use or power) the gun could not turned on a person and not cause (at least) injury?although in this case as you are describing on a range, like I said that is (in my opinion) up to the person, but will only point to my earlier post quoted also. for my having a weapon (its design & purpose) while on the path is antithetical.

With no modification one's large butcher knife can be used to stab someone to death. Without any modification one's cricket bat can be used to bludgeon another to death and on and on.

Actually that would be a modification of purpose. I have highlighted the relevant line you missed!

I don't give a rat's tookus about the supposed "design and purpose." All that matters in the context of my using a gun is my motivation when I pick it up. The gun in the photo Ben uploaded, its "design and purpose" is solely target shooting. A car's design and purpose is transportation, but it can also be used as a lethal weapon. The "modification of purpose" is beside the point. What matters is what happens when the gun, the butcher knife, the cricket bat, etc is picked up.

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

>> Do you see a man wise[enlightened/ariya]in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<<-- Proverbs 26:12

Doshin wrote:I'm not sure what you want to state by this. I only wanted to express my belief that reaching for a gun in the imaginary setup, I find it most likely to bring more killing/harming, then if one where to take a more mindfull approach.

Except, you do not know that. You can only hope that that would be so.

I have never claimed to know it for a fact. So your statement is void.

Not at all. There Is enough real world evidence in various wars of medics being killed, field hospital being targeted in various ways. And given that the imaginary scenario is just that -- imaginary, there is nothing actual to know.

I think I will rest, agreeing that we disagree.

Sounds good.

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

>> Do you see a man wise[enlightened/ariya]in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<<-- Proverbs 26:12

Of course I am in no way suggesting you are being careless about the safety of human beings when you target shoot. But I happen to treat the lives of birds, small mammals, and insects as being very important. I'm only assuming that this is a dimension to your well-enjoyed pastime which you haven't fully considered.

Rain soddens what is covered up,It does not sodden what is open.Therefore uncover what is coveredThat the rain will not sodden it. Ud 5.5

rowboat wrote:Of course I am in no way suggesting you are being careless about the safety of human beings when you target shoot. But I happen to treat the lives of birds, small mammals, and insects as being very important. I'm only assuming that this is a dimension to your well-enjoyed pastime which you haven't fully considered.

Well, I would not assume that about me, but then since I know what I do, I don't have to worry about it. It is not an issue.

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

>> Do you see a man wise[enlightened/ariya]in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<<-- Proverbs 26:12