Nationwide Protests - We Make Zines2015-08-03T00:54:53Zhttp://wemakezines.ning.com/forum/topics/nationwide-protests?commentId=2288844%3AComment%3A288696&feed=yes&xn_auth=noI think you are assuming an a…tag:wemakezines.ning.com,2011-12-06:2288844:Comment:2979552011-12-06T23:04:12.682ZDan 10thingshttp://wemakezines.ning.com/profile/Dan10things
<p>I think you are assuming an awful lot James. The 1% and 99% are based on income levels solely. You are in the 99%, it implies nothing more. No need to distance yourself from protesters you may have nothing in common with, and no need to add in false assumptions or a plethora of quotes and asterisks, that just makes you look a little crazy.</p>
<p>I think you are assuming an awful lot James. The 1% and 99% are based on income levels solely. You are in the 99%, it implies nothing more. No need to distance yourself from protesters you may have nothing in common with, and no need to add in false assumptions or a plethora of quotes and asterisks, that just makes you look a little crazy.</p> I'm sure as hell not the 1%,…tag:wemakezines.ning.com,2011-12-02:2288844:Comment:2973522011-12-02T15:01:54.933ZJames N. Dawsonhttp://wemakezines.ning.com/profile/JamesNDawson
<p>I'm sure as hell not the 1%, but the rallying cry of "You are part of the 99%!" is distastefully presumptuous and patronizing in the extreme. *I* am *not* a part of *your* 99%, and have no desire to be. I have *no* "solidarity" with *your* 99%. There are *all kinds* of perspectives and strategies *other than* the Occupy or Tea Party movements. They're for *thinking* people, not envy-heads, greed-heads, authoritarians and crypto-authoritarians. Maybe *you* are part of the *98%*, and a…</p>
<p>I'm sure as hell not the 1%, but the rallying cry of "You are part of the 99%!" is distastefully presumptuous and patronizing in the extreme. *I* am *not* a part of *your* 99%, and have no desire to be. I have *no* "solidarity" with *your* 99%. There are *all kinds* of perspectives and strategies *other than* the Occupy or Tea Party movements. They're for *thinking* people, not envy-heads, greed-heads, authoritarians and crypto-authoritarians. Maybe *you* are part of the *98%*, and a tiny minority of of us are part of the *other* 1%.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&amp;t=10075&amp;start=160">http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&amp;t=10075&amp;start=160</a></p> James- I'm mostly Libertarian…tag:wemakezines.ning.com,2011-11-01:2288844:Comment:2923402011-11-01T20:59:51.187ZDan 10thingshttp://wemakezines.ning.com/profile/Dan10things
<p>James- I'm mostly Libertarian and can identify with a lot of what the OWS has to say. I think only a portion of protesters are into the more socialist side of things. I can totally support the goals of:</p>
<ul>
<li>stopping taxpayer money being used to bailout and subsidize businesses and industries</li>
<li>stopping tax breaks and loopholes for companies that the rest of us don't get</li>
<li>minimizing the amount of money corporations, unions, superpacs, etc. can spend on elections to…</li>
</ul>
<p>James- I'm mostly Libertarian and can identify with a lot of what the OWS has to say. I think only a portion of protesters are into the more socialist side of things. I can totally support the goals of:</p>
<ul>
<li>stopping taxpayer money being used to bailout and subsidize businesses and industries</li>
<li>stopping tax breaks and loopholes for companies that the rest of us don't get</li>
<li>minimizing the amount of money corporations, unions, superpacs, etc. can spend on elections to minimize their influence on government policies and politicians</li>
</ul>
I've been to a couple of the larger protests here in Seattle and Libertarians are always part of the crowd. Oh, Jeff Potter's long meandering rants and mentioning Woodstock, ha ha ha, it's like the old times of alt.zines. Tom and Jeff, you guys need to get out to your local protests and see what they are actually about.<br/><br/> There is one thing to conside…tag:wemakezines.ning.com,2011-10-29:2288844:Comment:2919592011-10-29T16:31:21.410ZTom Hendrickshttp://wemakezines.ning.com/profile/TomHendricks
<p>There is one thing to consider about protest photos. I note that when you take photos of protestors, they look like normal people. I wrote this comment on mainstream protest photos:</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Media seldom cover protests in the US, unless they can find a picture of violent goofy painted face on a protestor. When has any media shown protestors that wear suits. This is cheap journalism where the media searches out the most goofy looking person with the most angry petulant scowl.…</p>
<p>There is one thing to consider about protest photos. I note that when you take photos of protestors, they look like normal people. I wrote this comment on mainstream protest photos:</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Media seldom cover protests in the US, unless they can find a picture of violent goofy painted face on a protestor. When has any media shown protestors that wear suits. This is cheap journalism where the media searches out the most goofy looking person with the most angry petulant scowl. Mainstream media it won't work. People can see through this use of photos as propaganda. It's fake journalism . And we both know it.</p>
<p>Why won't mainstream media talk about US protests unless they turn violent or can be pictured as goofy and childish?</p> I was glad to see the protest…tag:wemakezines.ning.com,2011-10-29:2288844:Comment:2920492011-10-29T16:27:17.922ZTom Hendrickshttp://wemakezines.ning.com/profile/TomHendricks
I was glad to see the protestors. I had almost given up on protests in the last decades, but this was a great surprise that I welcome. I hope the protestors don't loose their steam in the winter cold. I've been watching and supporting them where I can. Now, one month in, it may be a time to consider some goals for the OWS<br />
<p>Consider two goals that may help all, and that are important to me. </p>
<p>1. Support the grass roots jobs idea of a National Hiring Day that would suggest a voluntary…</p>
I was glad to see the protestors. I had almost given up on protests in the last decades, but this was a great surprise that I welcome. I hope the protestors don't loose their steam in the winter cold. I've been watching and supporting them where I can. Now, one month in, it may be a time to consider some goals for the OWS<br />
<p>Consider two goals that may help all, and that are important to me. </p>
<p>1. Support the grass roots jobs idea of a National Hiring Day that would suggest a voluntary day when every corporation in the US hire one or more people, or at least stop firing , </p>
<p>2. Oppose the consolidation of the arts and media into so few hands and support independent arts and media - the independent media was the one that has always been there. Then call for arts that fit - not corporate art - but the honest art of most independents artists of all kinds.</p>
<p>These are two issues that I'm very concerned with.</p> These types up movements are…tag:wemakezines.ning.com,2011-10-29:2288844:Comment:2918382011-10-29T01:42:24.743ZJames N. Dawsonhttp://wemakezines.ning.com/profile/JamesNDawson
<p>These types up movements are huge fronts skillfully manipulated by politically savvy factions. They're 98% rhetoric, all slogans, marches and display, and each, as a whole, has little ideological coherence. Occupy is essentially coercive-collectivist-egalitarian. Tea Party is essentially right wing social conservative bigotry. At best they're each very mixed bags.</p>
<p>If government were brought down to an absolute minimum, eliminated if possible, then corporations running government…</p>
<p>These types up movements are huge fronts skillfully manipulated by politically savvy factions. They're 98% rhetoric, all slogans, marches and display, and each, as a whole, has little ideological coherence. Occupy is essentially coercive-collectivist-egalitarian. Tea Party is essentially right wing social conservative bigotry. At best they're each very mixed bags.</p>
<p>If government were brought down to an absolute minimum, eliminated if possible, then corporations running government would be a moot point. Occupiers want huge government to take care of the needy. As such they want huge taxes to fund it. The poor must then submit to the caregivers control---they and their lives must be regulated, and as such, sell themselves into oppression. I oppose all taxation, all regulation. The vast majority of the Tea Party &amp; Occupiers don't want that, despite their empty bluster. I will not add my support to their displays.</p>
<p>It's all a massive charade, and it's been going on for decades and decades and decades. Leftists voted for Obama---I refuse to call them by the good name of liberal, I'm a liberal, for libertarianism is authentic liberalism, leftism isn't---because they wanted to alleviate their white guilt and were duped by his silver tongue, but now even they've seen he's a typical politician. Tea partiers, the dupes, have witnessed their glorious politicos back pedal and vote for farm subsidies.</p>
<p>Freedom requires careful thought, commitment and principle. Frankly, I wonder if it's just a crazy, futile dream. I see apathy, muddled thinking, and naivete all around me. I have some plans myself, but I doubt anybody's interested in them. Decentralism is one, but that's a very hard strategy because of the very policies the right and the left (including the occupiers and tea partiers) will fight against with their agendas tooth and nail.</p>
<p>Yes, I am "apathetic" about the Occupiers. I don't share their core philosophy or goals. Nothing will come of it anyway, and any "victories" they achieve, will quickly be co-opted by the establishment. It's virtually axiomatic.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarians_for_Animal_Rights">www.groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarians_for_Animal_Rights</a></p> I don't think you can qualify…tag:wemakezines.ning.com,2011-10-28:2288844:Comment:2920232011-10-28T13:03:47.961ZNicoleIntroverthttp://wemakezines.ning.com/profile/NicoleIntrovert
<p>I don't think you can qualify that statement by saying that BECAUSE you are a radical libertarian that both movements aren't even close with your views. I have a friend who is invovled in the Occupy movement who also identifies the same as you.</p>
<p>What is so different about what you think that Occupy wouldn't suit your needs? You feel cooperations should run our government? If not... Occupy could be something you could be behind. Not that you need to support or even be a…</p>
<p>I don't think you can qualify that statement by saying that BECAUSE you are a radical libertarian that both movements aren't even close with your views. I have a friend who is invovled in the Occupy movement who also identifies the same as you.</p>
<p>What is so different about what you think that Occupy wouldn't suit your needs? You feel cooperations should run our government? If not... Occupy could be something you could be behind. Not that you need to support or even be a sympathizer but i dont think you are so far removed as you think you are. Go to one of the Occupations and see how many different people are out there from vastly different walks of life (though I can only speak for Richmond). <br/> <br/>
<cite>James N. Dawson said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://wemakezines.ning.com/forum/topics/nationwide-protests?page=2&amp;commentId=2288844%3AComment%3A291827&amp;x=1#2288844Comment291827"><div><div class="xg_user_generated">I'm a radical libertarian so neither the Tea Party nor Occupy Wallstreet represent my views. Not even close.</div>
</div>
</blockquote> I'm a radical libertarian so…tag:wemakezines.ning.com,2011-10-28:2288844:Comment:2918272011-10-28T11:10:23.356ZJames N. Dawsonhttp://wemakezines.ning.com/profile/JamesNDawson
I'm a radical libertarian so neither the Tea Party nor Occupy Wallstreet represent my views. Not even close.
I'm a radical libertarian so neither the Tea Party nor Occupy Wallstreet represent my views. Not even close. Are you referring mainly to s…tag:wemakezines.ning.com,2011-10-26:2288844:Comment:2911842011-10-26T13:00:17.606ZJeff Potterhttp://wemakezines.ning.com/profile/JeffPotter
<p>Are you referring mainly to serving folks doing the actual occupying? One angle might be that a zine that deals with or includes OWS issues could be distributed to non-Occupy people, to the general public. Maybe to help them better understand the movement. For instance, to counter the mainstream. So the zine basically could be presented to the mainstream as a counter-voice.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I don't get the "it's gotta be free coz it's about a protest" angle. For one thing, existing zines --…</p>
<p>Are you referring mainly to serving folks doing the actual occupying? One angle might be that a zine that deals with or includes OWS issues could be distributed to non-Occupy people, to the general public. Maybe to help them better understand the movement. For instance, to counter the mainstream. So the zine basically could be presented to the mainstream as a counter-voice.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I don't get the "it's gotta be free coz it's about a protest" angle. For one thing, existing zines -- just like any existing media -- can just start to include OWS coverage and then keep whatever free/fee set-up it had before.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Sure, if a zine is going to be just one more thing that is handed out to the protesters themselves, on site, then it should fit in to that flow. However, if food is given to protesters it is likely bought from someone at some point so money is involved at some point which then shifts to a donation mode for the occupiers themselves. Obviously, if you're occupying you're not working and so you're supported.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I wonder if some occupiers ARE working, however. Anyone know? I live in the sticks so I haven't seen an occupation protest. But I've long been able to do my own particular job most anywhere via laptop, cellphone, or even notebook.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Also, I wonder about the sustainability of the model. Is a structure being set up to pay the rent/utilities, etc., of those who intend to make a longterm occupation? I hope that someone has done the accounting on the feasibility of this. A more typical political campaign is built around meetings for at least one obvious reason: everyone involved has to make a living. The OWS shouldn't build in any easily-identified weak positions into its method. I wonder if a sufficient core of supported occupiers is what will evolve. Each town will have to calculate how many occupiers are needed and how much donation will be required.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Anyway, it was curious that the charging money for zines angle is what was singled out at first. It seems a total non-issue. Whatever works and fits is what will evolve. If someone makes a misstep they won't likely repeat it, right?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Consider music. Some folks might play music with the occupiers, to support both the cause and the morale. Other musicians perhaps nearby who must support themselves might add OWS themes to their mix but will likely continue busking for cash wherever that works for them -- otherwise they'd starve. Right?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>A writer in America who could best cover the OWS would likely already be close to starving. (In contrast to a hobbyist whose work might have less impact.) So they'd unlikely be able to print up a zine on the OWS then give it away in a print-run volume that would make suitable impact. It might be that OWS organizers (purse-string holders) could work with such a zinester and get the printing paid for that way and then maybe also join in on the foodline. That is, the media-side is important to the immediate cause and would likely be supported by organizers so that it could happen.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Anyway, however the money-side would work out best could likely be readily managed.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Proximity might be relevant here. A bit off to the side of an occupation the whole range of indie culture might attract more attention than usual these days, free or not. Ripe days are these! Seize the day! Are folks out there JUMPIN'? It's a big rare chance. Of course, it's fleeting. If these moments mean anything to you, it's time to ACT!</p>
<p> </p>
<p>(I understand that for hobbyists these days may well be like any other, OWS being just another news-item, something that might or might not trickle out to mean more. Those who are just ITCHIN' for a chance, an opportunity, might view it differently.)</p> Haha. I'm definitely not a 1%…tag:wemakezines.ning.com,2011-10-25:2288844:Comment:2911762011-10-25T22:11:06.090ZNyxhttp://wemakezines.ning.com/profile/seagreenzines
<p>Haha. I'm definitely not a 1%er. You make an interesting discussion, Jeff. Personally, I went to Occupy Melbourne and thought it was the perfect thing to make a zine about. They are words and art and everything that artists can reflect during such interesting times.</p>
<p>But perhaps zinesters went through some of the same thoughts I did - what is the focus of the zine, will occupy people want it?, do I have the $ to make it on my own with no return $? - and stopped. Or some don't…</p>
<p>Haha. I'm definitely not a 1%er. You make an interesting discussion, Jeff. Personally, I went to Occupy Melbourne and thought it was the perfect thing to make a zine about. They are words and art and everything that artists can reflect during such interesting times.</p>
<p>But perhaps zinesters went through some of the same thoughts I did - what is the focus of the zine, will occupy people want it?, do I have the $ to make it on my own with no return $? - and stopped. Or some don't understand it. I don't know what it's like in the US, but in Australia, some of our media outlets are trying very hard to make the occupy movements look like a bunch of ragtag jobless hippies.</p>
<p>I think zinesters have a role if they choose to create one. Given how long things have gone, speed isn't so much of the essence and we have the time to explore what place zines can have.</p>