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I'm not interested in engaging in yet another intact vs venomoid discussion - you have your opinion, and you are welcome to it...but labeling me an "extemist" because I don't advocate the procedure is a bit ridiculous, don't you think?

I was attempting to use the word extreme or extremist as an example of the 2 completely different sides. One side only wants one thing and won't budge to change and the other side being the same but with their opposite point of views.

I'm not here to make enemies and if i offended you, i apologize. I'm just looking for some middle ground between the two sides.

Your saying that the vendor i mentioned (venomoidinc) FREEHANDLE a venomoid they performed the procedure on at a show... I don't see how this is a bad thing. It's very bold but it shows how certain they are and how much they trust their own procedure.

That kind of careless disregard is why I have not gone to shows that allow venomous.

I'm not anti hot either. I think that they are beautiful & perfectly fine for responsible trained people to keep.

If I ever decide to purchase one, it will not be from people who publicly demonstrate unsafe handling practices.

I don't consider myself an extremist. Maybe...that's a big maybe...Venomoid inc. can guarantee their procedure, but how do they back it up? Money back guarantee if one of our venomoids kills you? If you haven't already watched the video, check it out on youtube. 2 of 3 venomoid cobras give venom. This is not a risk I'd ever be willing to take, and I don't care how good the surgeon is.

Also, free-handling a hot at a show sends a very bad message to others out there. It says venomoids are safe, and that they can be handled just like anything else. Well, for argument's sake, what if Venomoid Inc. is the only company that does the procedure properly? Did their representative hold up a big sign telling people they could only do that with a venomoid they had created? No, his actions said "venomoids are safe". That's irresponsible behavior if I've ever seen it!

I don't really want to debate the venemoid subject, I have done so previously on other forums. But I will say this. Surgeries are done to save lives or improve the quality of life. These are not surgeries but mutilations of the animals. There is no benefit to these operations for the animals, and people who admire them for what they are would never do such a thing. There are far too many non venomous snakes out there for people wanting pets. What next? Cut of a monitors tail so you can fit it in a smaller cage? When you have to mutilate an animal to keep it you are going against the very basic tenets of proper husbandry, fulfilling the animals needs. Such behavior is reprehensible and tantamount to when runaway slaves were hobbled in an effort to prevent them from escaping. If one does not have the capabilities to properly care and house animals then they shouldnt have them.

I was attempting to use the word extreme or extremist as an example of the 2 completely different sides. One side only wants one thing and won't budge to change and the other side being the same but with their opposite point of views.

That may have been your intent, but what you said was

Quote:

Instead of being an extremist why not point them in the right direction

That pretty much says that your side is right, and the other one is wrong.
You are correct, though, in that the two sides are entrenched. No amount of posting will convert anybody that has chosen a stance.

I don't know if you have bothered to read any of the other threads on this topic here, but there's some interesting reading - even if you bypass the "extremist" stories about "hacks" butchering snakes in their basements, lol. Gary has posted an account from a very reliable source which addresses "hot" voids (he has also pointed out that your vendor of choice will not guarantee that a snake is rendered harmless & incapable of venom production). I had a friend who was nearly killed by a surgically altered cobra - though that doesn't have much to do with my opinion on the matter -I know I've referenced it, and I think I've posted the full story, too.

I don't really want to debate the venemoid subject, I have done so previously on other forums. But I will say this. Surgeries are done to save lives or improve the quality of life. These are not surgeries but mutilations of the animals. There is no benefit to these operations for the animals, and people who admire them for what they are would never do such a thing. There are far too many non venomous snakes out there for people wanting pets. What next? Cut of a monitors tail so you can fit it in a smaller cage? When you have to mutilate an animal to keep it you are going against the very basic tenets of proper husbandry, fulfilling the animals needs. Such behavior is reprehensible and tantamount to when runaway slaves were hobbled in an effort to prevent them from escaping. If one does not have the capabilities to properly care and house animals then they shouldnt have them.

As far as "it's ok as long as a vet with modern medical tech does it" goes... I lost a cat a few years ago to our family vet because they overshot the anesthesia on a routine TEETH CLEANING and he went into cardiac arrest. As much training as vets get, they don't have the same benefit human doctors have of patients that can tell them if something's wrong or be liable if a patient dies under their care. I wouldn't trust them to do something as risky as a venomoid op, because not only does it put the animal at risk, it puts the keeper at risk. If you can't keep hots and resist the urge to handle them... DON'T KEEP HOTS. Simple as that.

Instead of being an extremist why not point them in the right direction

I'll do that!!! The right direction is to run awayfrom ANYONE trying to sell you a void or a void procedure.

As long as there seems to be advertising in this thread, let me follow suit (well, not advertising, just an offer to help out): I'll kick in five hours of my time helping in preparation, to anyone hurt by a void and wanting to sue

I don't really want to debate the venemoid subject, I have done so previously on other forums. But I will say this. Surgeries are done to save lives or improve the quality of life. These are not surgeries but mutilations of the animals. There is no benefit to these operations for the animals, and people who admire them for what they are would never do such a thing. There are far too many non venomous snakes out there for people wanting pets. What next? Cut of a monitors tail so you can fit it in a smaller cage? When you have to mutilate an animal to keep it you are going against the very basic tenets of proper husbandry, fulfilling the animals needs. Such behavior is reprehensible and tantamount to when runaway slaves were hobbled in an effort to prevent them from escaping. If one does not have the capabilities to properly care and house animals then they shouldnt have them.

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