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Topic Review (Newest First)

02-12-2014 08:29 AM

Liesje

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Taggart

No, I had a handler for my previous dogs. Head down? It should be up. Chest forward? My imagination cannot work it out here. "Forward" doesn't mean "side to side". And the only thing I said - that it is not difficult to train your dog to pull again after months and months of training not to do it.

You completely missed my point. If a dog is properly leash trained AND ring trained there is no need to re-train the ring training. Dogs are not dumb. They should and do know the difference between having good manners walking on a leash and ring training for a show. Also dogs should NOT be pulling during a show (your other post mentioned re-training a dog to "pull"). The dog should move out ahead of the handler but a properly ring trained dog can gait freely with his head up and not be pulling into the lead.

02-12-2014 05:10 AM

G-burg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squinks51

I'm thinking of using a prong collar for my female german shepherd but have heard so many bad things about them. also a lot of good results. i had talked to my friends dog trainer and he recommended me using a medium sized prong collar. before i go ahead on buying one i need some opinions on wether i should or not. my shepherd does Great off leash but city rules say i must have her on leash. and she pulls excessively when on one. I've tried using gentle leader but still doesn't seem to quiet work. she's been on one for a couple months but always seems to chew them apart and just keep pulling.

To the OP... did you get your question answered?

02-11-2014 08:12 PM

selzer

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Taggart

No, I had a handler for my previous dogs. Head down? It should be up. Chest forward? My imagination cannot work it out here. "Forward" doesn't mean "side to side". And the only thing I said - that it is not difficult to train your dog to pull again after months and months of training not to do it.

Dogs are pretty smart, and pretty trainable. Lots of people use a specific collar for a specific task. There is a show lead, and a show collar, and the dog knows he is going in the ring, and because we prepare our dogs prior to paying money and going through the process of finding the right show and the right judges, etc, the dog has no problem actually doing his job in the ring.

Just because you own a show dog, does not mean you have to have super-developed upper arm muscles.

Will someone Paleeeze explain that to Odie! LOL!

Actually, she isn't all that bad. She has been shown and has a BH and a SchH1. So she has had to do all that proper heeling, as well as having to trot out in the show ring. Just like ALL the other dogs bred to the German standard.

I think that some Americans just have a convenient excuse as to why they aren't bothering to train their dogs in basic leash manners. Yes, you don't want the dog to sit down in the show ring so you have to train them to stand, and not automatically sit, which you train the automatic sit in the obedience ring. But really, it isn't that hard. We are more confused than the dog is I bet.

02-11-2014 07:29 PM

David Taggart

Quote:

Showing a dog does NOT look pretty when your dog throws his head down and his chest forward

No, I had a handler for my previous dogs. Head down? It should be up. Chest forward? My imagination cannot work it out here. "Forward" doesn't mean "side to side". And the only thing I said - that it is not difficult to train your dog to pull again after months and months of training not to do it.

02-11-2014 06:08 PM

Liesje

Um, I've used a prong collar with my dog and he does not need one for leash walking, accompanying me to work, public appearances, etc. He is also a show dog (though he also trains and competes in other sports including Schutzhund) and does not pull all over the place. He is *trained* so he knows the rules. Showing a dog does NOT look pretty when your dog throws his head down and his chest forward and goes barreling around the ring. David Taggart do you have *any* experience ring training and showing dogs?

02-11-2014 05:29 PM

David Taggart

Once you started to use prong - there would be no end to it. The original idea to walk your dog off leash ceasing your reliance on any collars starts to seem too far fetched only couple of years after.
Some people I trained had show line GSDs, after their dogs learned dogs' etiquette and prey on ball and other toys only, they had to learn to pull on the leash again - because on the show ring your dog has to pull and run forward. Everything their handlers had to do was to put a chain-choke collar on them. It just gave me a thought, if I put a prong on already well trained off leash dog - would it make him wishing to misbehave? I really want to know what is going on in the dog's head when you use a prong. One may not care.

02-11-2014 04:40 PM

TexasCrane

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baillif

I don't even think you own dogs

Ha! I sincerely hope you're right.

02-11-2014 04:33 PM

Chip18

Quote:

Originally Posted by sechattin

While the prong can work in the right hands with someone who knows exactly what they're doing, I've found that simple positive reinforcement has been most effective for me. I actually started out working prongs on my dogs, but when I started teaching classes, the use of the prong seemed to be a bit too particular for many people to pick up easily. The positive reinforcement on the other hand, seems easier to me, is at least equally effective as long as you put in the effort, and I've found that it gives me more solid results. The prong can do the job of teaching the dog what is acceptable loose leash walking and what is not, but I've always liked the extra dose of focus I get with positive, or treat training methods. It may take longer to proof than the prong, but I enjoy not having to rely on a certain type of training collar or harness to walk my dog calmly down the street. My shepherd is fairly drivey but because I've practiced very consistently with him he knows that when he is on leash, his job is to focus on me unless I tell him otherwise. Ultimately, the decision is up to you, but I thought I'd throw my preferred method out there. If you don't have much experience with this method, the Training Positive channel on Youtube does a good little tutorial - How to teach your dog to STOP pulling! (part 1) - YouTube

Yeah I was going to try that on my ill used prong dog but sadly I never got the chance, lost him in 2010.
But I had great success with following dogs, I came to the conclusion...that for "me" anyway, If I'm not getting the results I want with what I'm doing then the problem is "me" and not the dog!

02-11-2014 04:26 PM

Chip18

Quote:

Originally Posted by DutchKarin

No one seems to have mentioned this. Inappropriate use of a prong collar can lead to superstitious fears. I do believe that I amplified my GSD's dog aggression years ago with the inappropriate use of a prong. I use one now as well as an ecollar but I worked with a trainer so that I got it right this time.

And just so I explain what I mean. A superstitious fear is when the correction is wrongly paired to something unintended. My dog looks at another dog and growls. I (again 20 years ago) yank on the leash and prong, my dog is looking at the other dog and feeling the pain from the collar and my yanking and associates pain with the other dog. She gets more pissed off at other dog. etc.

Yep most likely I did that screw up also!

02-11-2014 04:24 PM

wyoung2153

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chip18

Well you were much smarter than me! I failed to realize that I did not know what I was doing!

As Baillif said one on one with a good instructor and as you figured out on your on. Good call by you!

We live and we learn! I bet you know better now!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chip18

I think head halters are crap and I won't use them! Yeah I said it! Carry on!

For us... worked great on his head... but I never figured out how to train him out of it.. on=no pull.. off=back to pulling.

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