Having recently bought a grey import - they don't make that much of a killing from Japan. The market is too close and that's how every 2nd dodgy used car salesman on Parramatta Road gets their stock. So competition at the Japanese auctions (there are literally hundreds of them) is fierce.

Having said that, rare cars from the states do make a killing. But it costs $8-10k to get it here and another $7-10k to get it on the road in Aus. The gouging by the govt and importers is ludicrous.

On 18/05/2011 strerror wrote:>>Off topic but on the car topic...>>Australia also has another tax (one I left off in my reply to Neil) for>basically protectionist reasons (aka Holden) of our own local car manufacturing.>Not only does .nz not have that, but they also benefit from Japans laws>that prohibit anyone driving a car older then (I think it's 5 might be>3) 3 years. All of these pretty much perfectly good 5 year old cars are>then shipped to places like New Zealand and sold for nothing.Welcome to>a inundated market of cheap nice cars.

That isn't actually true or else there'd be no classic cars running in Japan, no AE86s, or R32s or many many other awesome vehicles. What Japan does have is a mandatory car testing system every three years. However the rub is that to keep their car industry going (sound familiar), is that the test for six year (and older) cars is really really difficult to meet so therefore it's often just easier to buy a new car.

NZ on the other hand allowed imports of second hand vehicles with minimal tax. This killed their (yes they had one) small car manufacturing industry.

PS I'm not debating whether this is good or bad policy, I'm just clearing up the story.

On 18/05/2011 pecheur wrote:>That isn't actually true or else there'd be no classic cars running in>Japan, no AE86s, or R32s or many many other awesome vehicles. What Japan>does have is a mandatory car testing system every three years. However>the rub is that to keep their car industry going (sound familiar), is that>the test for six year (and older) cars is really really difficult to meet>so therefore it's often just easier to buy a new car.>>NZ on the other hand allowed imports of second hand vehicles with minimal>tax. This killed their (yes they had one) small car manufacturing industry.>>PS I'm not debating whether this is good or bad policy, I'm just clearing>up the story.

When did NZ make their last car then?

Your not confusing importing parts and then putting them together are you?

On 18/05/2011 strerror wrote:>>So is it just the case of Australian commerce milking us because they>can and we put up with it? Or is there something I'm not aware of?

Part of the story is that very few of the big hardware manufacturers actually direct import into Australia due to our small market, it's run through distributors. As soon as that happens, you have another middleman which automatically will jack up the price by at least 20%, in the case of something like Shimano for bikes it's closer to 50%.

To be honest though (and this is going to be controversial), if we want US prices we'd have to have at least three to four times our market size, i.e. three to four times as many climbers, ergo every fine weekend at Arapiles looking like it was at Easter and the Easter weekend being utterly appalling. I think currently we are in the best possible position, if you are remotely motivated you can buy from the sure it'll cost you 10-20% more once you factor in freight on a largish buy but we generally don't have to queue for climbs and our climbs aren't being polished at an annoying fast rate.

>When did NZ make their last car then?>>Your not confusing importing parts and then putting them together are>you?>
Um importing parts and putting them together is a large part of what the Australian car industry does ... Sure quite we have a rather large component manufacturing industry here, but any Commodore you look at is a very, very international car.

Off the top of my head I'd say the last plant to close in NZ would have been late eighties or early nineties.

>Um importing parts and putting them together is a large part of what the>Australian car industry does ... Sure quite we have a rather large component>manufacturing industry here, but any Commodore you look at is a very, very>international car.>
Exactly. A major contributer to the cost.
I agree with your earlier post - Australia just doesn't have enough people to bring prices down in any industry.

On 18/05/2011 shortman wrote:>- Australia just doesn't have enough people to bring prices down in any industry.

Sorry Im calling BS on this one, if Australian retailers were allowed to order direct from Distrubutors in the US/overseas we'd get much better prices.....they could order bulk, ship themselves, pay gst and still be around 20-30% cheaper than what they could get locally..the reason they can't is because the company that manufactures the products realise they can get more by controlling distribution. Also GST is irrelevant as the company claims it back anyway as a cost,

I can get a pair of ski's shipped direct from a US retailer for 50% off whats available in Oz, that retailer in the US would also have a 100% markup...dont tell me importing those ski adds that much to the cost, but retailers in Oz are stuck with the prices offered by the distrubutor which is the manufactuer themselves in most cases.

Said skis sell for $1400 here, in US get them for $700 (Incl shipping), so US retailer must be getting them wholesale for around $350.....and thats being conservative with the markup.

On 18/05/2011 rodw wrote:>On 18/05/2011 shortman wrote:>>- Australia just doesn't have enough people to bring prices down in any>industry.>>Sorry Im calling BS on this one, if Australian retailers were allowed>to order direct from Distrubutors in the US/overseas we'd get much better>prices.....they could order bulk, ship themselves, pay gst and still be>around 20-30% cheaper than what they could get locally..the reason they>can't is because the company that manufactures the products realise they>can get more by controlling distribution. Also GST is irrelevant as the>company claims it back anyway as a cost,>>I can get a pair of ski's shipped direct from a US retailer for 50% off>whats available in Oz, that retailer in the US would also have a 100% markup...dont>tell me importing those ski adds that much to the cost, but retailers in>Oz are stuck with the prices offered by the distrubutor which is the manufactuer>themselves in most cases.>>Said skis sell for $1400 here, in US get them for $700 (Incl shipping),>so US retailer must be getting them wholesale for around $350.....and thats>being conservative with the markup.

I think we are on the same page.

....the reason they can't is because the company that manufactures the products realise they can get more by controlling distribution....

...and this is beneficial to them only because we are small and don't in the scheme of things buy in bulk....climbing gear, skiing gear, circus gear...any small industry, in any small country will always struggle to make these big companies any real money...after all they are not in for altruistic reasons. What is the bottom line in capitalism?

So of course they do the math and know that having a distributor is what will ultimately put more money in their own pocket, with the least amount of effort. Distributor price is still below wholesale price remember. There are just so many factors.

If we keep bringing it down to one guy with one pair of ski's, or one set of cams, then we will always save money. Look at the bigger picture.

>....the reason they can't is because the company that manufactures the products realise they can get more by controlling distribution....
True but the manufacturer is unlikely to get more $ through a sole distributor contract (the manufacturer may get convenience but it's the distributor getting the $) - I think these contracts are monopolistic and should be illegal.

While everyone is bitching, has anyone actually noticed that Rockhardware and Climbing anchors have had very comparable prices to the US of late? I bought a grigri2 from RH for $95, that's the same as the retail price in the states in US$. CA had camalots at $63. One of them had ropes for sub $150. Black diamond Oz for $21ish.

I think there's a reason that forsale ads have decreased on Chocky and it's not the furore about them a while ago. It's that it's no longer competitive to mass order from the states because you can only sell gear here for less than what CA and RH offer.

We are getting a false impression of the cost of gear in the states online as well, because they don't have to add tax if it's leaving the state. I do mean the state, not the states. If you walk into a store in the US, you'd be paying 10-15% more in tax than if you mail ordered from the next state. Of course, most of them offer free shipping with in the states, so it's surely effecting store business as well.

there is a lot of talk about import taxes and the like but how come i bought a Mont down sleeping bag ($800 in kent st) for $400 in the US? Isn't Mont an Aussie company. Too many people make too many excuses for Australian retail. It is in general pretty average especially if you have the temerity to be an XL or XXL in gear - never, ever in stock!

ozgameshop.com is an english company marketed to just australians (they also have a separate nz site), its prices are in AUD and include the cost of shipping. For instance, LA Noire comes out today $108 at EB, $78 at JB (which is much lower than anywhere else), game has it for $82 but this is online and delivered, and $59.99 at ozgameshop (including postage) -- of course of you need to wait a week or so for delivery.

I think we'll see more operations like this targeting australian shoppers.

On 18/05/2011 nmonteith wrote:>There have been past topics associated with this with replies from Mountain>Equipment and Sydney Climbing Gym staff. Someone with a bit more time might>be able to find the links?>

Here's Seth's, BD brand Manager from STS, during one of the rather vigorous discussions on gear pricing. A number of other retailers (Steve from Rock Hardware and Mike from one of the Sydney Gyms) also jump in at some point.

On 18/05/2011 citationx wrote:>While this is all good and well for people that want to spend $1,500 on>gear in one hit, my point was that people have probably already made large>purchases for cams, ropes etc. I'm going to be very general (and include>many of my own thoughts) but i'm willing to bet that a lot of current climbers>already have 90% of the gear they need. They probably only need to replace>a cam here, or a jammed nut there, maybe only a 5-pack of draws, or a new>beanie. If you were goign to "overhaul" your rakc and gear, then sure,>go nuts overseas. But i'm not going to go to the effort of replacing my>number #1 camalot for $15 bucks, especially if i'm in the middle of a climbing>trip in the gramps...

That's fair enough but a couple of quick points. Firstly I did mention that my purchases were over a few months. Secondly if everyone was in isolation, then your point would make sense, however, I climb with a bunch of other people, so by the time all of us work out what we want / need, it ends up being a reasonable order. Split the cost of shipping 4 ways and it's incredibly cheap. These days even the package forwarders allow you to have additional names on the account for free!

And all that from Seth is absolute bullshit. Australian prices are high because of monopolist distributors. The only way to break the monopolistic distributors is from international mail order. Unfortunately in the mean time Australian retailers suffer.

STS has finally dropped the RRP for BD C4s recently, things are now slightly more reasonable. Meanwhile retailers who have stocked up suffer at the shock price drop. Certain retailers have been hurt VERY badly by this.

On 18/05/2011 rodw wrote:>On 18/05/2011 shortman wrote:>>- Australia just doesn't have enough people to bring prices down in any>industry.>>Sorry Im calling BS on this one,

Absolutely agree and this was the main reason for the post. Shipping costs to Australia are not big in this day and age and we're close to the manufacturing hub of the world, ie asia. Shipping is not the issue. Nor are the taxes and import duties. Bottom line is you can purchase stuff directly from overseas and get it here under the cost of local prices, so if we can do it, so can the shops. No the reason lies elsewhere and from what I'm gleaning from this thread, it looks like it's the manufacturers themselves controlling the distribution. I guess there is a lack of incentive for them to price competitively in each region, though I wonder if it gets to the point where they don't sell anything in Australia they'd look at changing.

On 19/05/2011 Wendy wrote:>While everyone is bitching, has anyone actually noticed that Rockhardware>and Climbing anchors have had very comparable prices to the US of late?

Yep I certainly have. I've also bought a few things from steve for that reason, not too mention the great service!

>It's that it's no longer>competitive to mass order from the states because you can only sell gear>here for less than what CA and RH offer.

That's where you're wrong. It's still massively cost effective, on some items, to get them overseas, even if it's just on the stuff that RH / CA don't sell.

>We are getting a false impression of the cost of gear in the states online>as well, because they don't have to add tax if it's leaving the state.> I do mean the state, not the states. If you walk into a store in the>US, you'd be paying 10-15% more in tax than if you mail ordered from the>next state. Of course, most of them offer free shipping with in the states,>so it's surely effecting store business as well.

Seems like a few people in this thread are getting caught up on a few percent here and there. The price differences that concern me are typically in the ~100% difference range. These are not explained by currency fluctuations, import tarrifs or export taxes and they're disconcertingly common.

On 19/05/2011 strerror wrote:>Nor are the taxes and import duties. Bottom line is you can purchase stuff directly from overseas and get it here under the cost of local prices, so if we can do it, so can the shops.

It's only a level playing field whilst ever they import less than $1000AUD worth of gear. As soon as they bring in more than that they pay duty (5%), then GST on the duty, the shipping and any insurance they had on the shipment.

Sure, it doesn't explain the huge price difference, but saying they can bring stuff in for exactly the same price an individual can isn't correct either.