Posted
by
timothy
on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @02:10PM
from the if-that-is-your-real-name dept.

wiredmikey writes: Edward Snowden joined Twitter Tuesday, picking up more than a quarter of a million followers on the social network in just over two hours. Snowden followed a single Twitter account: the U.S. National Security Agency, from which he stole electronic documents revealing the agency's secret surveillance programs. "Can you hear me now?" he asked in his first tweet, which was quickly resent by Twitter users tens of thousands of times. In his second, Snowden noted the recent news about the planet Mars and then quipped about the difficulty he had finding asylum after the U.S. government fingered him as the source of the NSA leaks. "And now we have water on Mars!" he wrote. "Do you think they check passports at the border? Asking for a friend."

Many very, very sad people can have senses of humor. I'm not saying Snowden is depressed or whatever, but... I have read/heard about the apparent significant rates of depression when it comes to comedians. Funny != happy. I'm not depressed, either, but I know I can be quite funny even if I'm hurting. Partially, it's a way to hide the hurt/pain from others.

(again, I have *no* idea about Snowden. Just commenting on the idea of being sad being mutually exclusive with being humorous.:) )

This exactly. The powers that be want another establishment tool who will do their bidding. You may have seen it reported that some wealthy donors are simultaneously supporting Jeb Bush and Hillary Clinton, while the media ignores Bernie Sanders and dispariages Donald Trump every chance they get. I predict that as Bush and Clinton's campaigns appear to be sagging, the big money is going to go to Joe Biden and Marco Rubio - basically, anyone but Sanders and Trump.

At first I didn't think https://twitter.com/snowden [twitter.com] could be the real Edward Snowden. That pose on his profile pic has got to be the douchey-est photo of him I've ever seen. And yet it comes up as a "Verified" Twitter account. How could they verify that?

For now, I'm still calling it out as a DoD / CIA / NSA InfoOps character defamation account:P

He exposed national security secrets. The fact that they were illegal actions by our government does not change the fact that exposing those secret practices is textbook treason. There is no legal way to expose national security tidbits like that.

Sec. 1.7. Classification Prohibitions and Limitations.(a) In no case shall information be classified, continue to be maintained as classified, or fail to be declassified in order to:(1) conceal violations of law, inefficiency, or administrative error;(2) prevent embarrassment to a person, organization, or agency;(3) restrain competition; or(4) prevent or delay the release of information that does not require protection in the interest of the national security.

So, in fact, hiding government wrongdoing by classifying it is in itself illegal, and the material would be considered improperly classified.

Not really true. From Executive Order 13526, Classified National Security Information [whitehouse.gov]:

Sec. 1.7. Classification Prohibitions and Limitations.(a) In no case shall information be classified, continue to be maintained as classified, or fail to be declassified in order to:(1) conceal violations of law, inefficiency, or administrative error;(2) prevent embarrassment to a person, organization, or agency;(3) restrain competition; or(4) prevent or delay the release of information that does not requi

What is he doing in Russia? If he's still there. Admittantly I haven't been following the story that closely. But how does he have a computer or food? Does he have a job? Is he working for the Russian government? If that's the case I'd have to say he's just traded one evil for another.

He's basically just a pawn at this point. Putin keeps him around because it embarrasses the US Government. He'll probably find himself extradited in a heartbeat if Putin can get something valuable in trade. I'm also guessing he's not exactly a prisoner, but that he would find it to be very difficult to leave Russia if he wanted to. You know, pawn stuff.

He's basically just a pawn at this point. Putin keeps him around because it embarrasses the US Government. He'll probably find himself extradited in a heartbeat if Putin can get something valuable in trade. I'm also guessing he's not exactly a prisoner, but that he would find it to be very difficult to leave Russia if he wanted to. You know, pawn stuff.

Utterly unfounded crap. The actual reason he can't leave is that he would be intercepted extralegally by U.S. agents acting on behalf of an illegitimate rogu

As if "U.S. agents acting on behalf of an illegitimate rogue government violating its own goddam Constitution" had no presence in Russia.

"Stop criticizing me! Billy did it too! Everybody does it!"

Sorry, that doesn't bear on the point or relieve the evil from criticism. Look, I'm an American. When I look at my country, I see it being cynically destroyed from within by the etablishment. I see not a care whatsoever given to our own interests. In fact, top down, White House first and foremost, but most definite

He tried to leave Russia. He planted a hint he was on a diplomatic plane, and the US illegally intercepted it. The US doesn't follow its own rules. The US is a lawless country, worse than all the ones that it complains about.

Putin isn't "keeping him around", he's still in Russia because it's not legal for him to leave the country because the US canceled his travel documents. Don't get me wrong, Putin loses absolutely no sleep that Snowden is in Russia, but to even imagine that Snowden is serving the Russian government when his entire plight is due to the fact that he exposed unconstitutional illegal programs by the US government is laughable. Snowden is more a patriot to this country than someone with your view could ever be.

What are you confused about? You realize that people in Russia have access to computers and food, right? You understand that people who are sympathetic to Snowden have the ability to travel freely, right? On which point are you unclear?

Does he have a job?

Yes.

Is he working for the Russian government?

There's no indication that he is. He's working for a private company.

Admittantly I haven't been following the story that closely.

"Admittantly" is not a word, and it's obvious that you haven't followed anything. But you're "just asking questions", aren't you?

Nothing is stopping the Russian government from providing him with travel documents, if it were so inclined.

You seem really confused about why he is in Russia. Russia is not detaining him, they are simply not honoring the US request to extradite Snowden for prosecution. Russia was not Snowden's destination, it's just where he was when the US cancelled his passport. So he doesn't have a passport, no other country has the will to offer him political asylum. So he's stuck. Russia is no doubt doing this simply to thumb its noise at the US. Snowden understands that and I'm absolutely sees the irony in it.

He was just a low/mid-level analyst who leaked a bunch of shit. Why are people treating him like any sort of authority on anything?

That's actually what I thought too initially, without knowing much about the situation.

But as I kept reading, I learned that he was by far the smartest programmer at NSA (at least in the branch that he was at), he was THE man according to his former NSA colleagues. He took off with everything, he got the keys to the whole kingdom using his knowledge and mad skillz. No other low/mid-level analyst (as you put it) could've pulled that off.

Indeed, many NSA managers kept giving him access to various systems because he could get stuff done ASAP. Eventually, he had access to "too much" information and started seeing a pattern. Live feeds from CIA drones all over the world, various spying programs with major US companies helping out, "pattern matching" for a "foreigner" at a 51% probability. "LOVE INT", with NSA employees using the agency's resources to spy on loved ones and potential dates. If he had been kept properly compartmentalized he pr

The existing authorities lied to us, and he's pretty much in exile for releasing this information to an organization that would responsibly-ish bring it to light.

The authorities still have much to lose if they reveal the truth, so if we want the truth we have to go to what he released. He's already shown that he'll stick his neck out and personally lose a lot to bring the truth to the public, ironically (?) making him an authority by acting in the opposite way of how existing authorities do.

It is a publicity stunt, and a damn good one. @snowden has collected almost 500k followers in less than five hours. By the end of today, it is sure to exceed a million. Can you hear me now? You bet your sweet ass!

We know the Russian government is evil, spies on its citizens. We know. Pointing it out continually does not diminish the Orwellian nightmare that the U.S. government has become, or diminish the heroism that was required for Snowden to ever accomplish what he did.

I know you don't care because you're shills, I'm only letting you know that your ad hominem arguments are 100% ineffective and you should move on to something better. Thanks.

Can I point out that the NSA is only doing what the current administration tells them to do and that it is President Obama that has not pardoned him and is pushing for his arrest?

Yes, the executive branch and congress are complicit in this. How does that make it any "better?" Also, this started a long time ago. In case some nitwit wants to turn this into an Obama sucks rant. He does suck in this regard. And so did Bush. And no doubt Clinton. And every blowhard that's a serious contender for president on both sides of the aisle. And the vast majority of congress.

Honestly, I think you have it backwards. The president and congress do what the NSA tells them. Not in a crazy co

Can I point out that the NSA is only doing what the current administration tells them to do and that it is President Obama that has not pardoned him and is pushing for his arrest?

You have it backwards. I can't be the only one that noticed President Obama did a near 180 from Candidate Obama, far more than the usual irrelevant campaign lies. Gitmo stayed (and is still) open for business, no one from the Bush admin were prosecuted for their CRIMES, and the number of cowardly extra-judicial remote control mu

Snowden followed a single Twitter account: the U.S. National Security Agency

Khm, I wonder, why he is not following Kremlin's accounts. Just to, you know, hold Putin accountable [theguardian.com]...

Just because Russia is worse doesn't mean America isn't bad. If you really want to speak out against the abuses of the Medici, you're going to need the protection of the Borgias first. Hypocritical? Sure. But I'm afraid that's just how Renaissance Italy works.

Korea, Vietnam. Korea and Vietnam split because the US invaded the South and interrupted democratic elections. The US invaded sovereign countries who didn't want help, and prevented democracy. Multiple times. That should meet your definition.

Korea and Vietnam split because the US invaded the South and interrupted democratic elections.

Can't argue about Korea, that's not quite accurate with regard to Vietnam. The US went due to a stupid agreement with France, hod nothing to do with interrupting elections, the elections were rigged by the US anyway. Ngo Dình Diem was a US puppet, and his election a foregone conclusion. Vietnam was the last gasp of France's imperial past; the US had ridiculous nightmares about communists taking over the world. To the Vietnamese, it was just a civil war.

Eisenhower sent in troops to block an election that was happening. The US panicked over an election that could see Ho Chi Minh elected. The US invaded without request from France or the Vietnamese. Then brainwashed the political leaders against Ho Chi Minh and declared that their invasion was because of the French and we were invited, and it had nothing to do with the democratic election we blocked or the war we started. The invasion was Eisenhower, and Eisenhower alone (not the French), and his "don't

The US went due to a stupid agreement with France... the US had ridiculous nightmares about communists taking over the world.

I've read the stories of one of member of Deer Team of OSS sent to help Viet Minh, under Ho Chi Minh.Why Vietnam?: Prelude to America's Albatross by Archimedes L.A. Patti

That said, he, Ho Chi Minh, love U.S.A (he was here, when he was finding 'way to liberate the country', he may like the 'freedom' breath he felt there). He considered U.S.A was the symbol of country against colonialism. He must be good friend with U.S.A.

But, U.S.A don't want 'good friend', they need some one they can control, like Dr.

If Snowden believes he was "holding Putin accountable" that demonstrates some major league naivety

Oh, he may have wisen up by now. But that's what happens when young people — even the brighter among them — are raised by the teachers, who seriously equate Beria with McCarthy and Castro with Pinochet. And by now it is increasingly harder to blame even those teachers — when their own professors are "former" terrorists themselves [thedailybeast.com].

He gave up his cushy life in paradise - literally paradise - for the freedom of his country and the world. Now you expect him to risk his only refuge to tell us all what we already know? What have you done for the world, chickenhawk?

The NSA is a tool which can, and has been, used for bad as well as good. They have too much power and too little public accountability. A rifle is similarly a tool. In the right hands it can put food on the table and defend a family. In the wrong hands it can murder and maim innocent people. Here are a few highlights that we know happen, and we have no evidence that anything has changed since the Snowden leaks.

NSA data used in parallel construction allowing fabrication of data to arrest people. Data shared with all levels of law enforcement including state, city, county.

NSA data used to squash dissent and opinions. You know better than cops always being in force exactly where needed to disperse people well before a gathering.

NSA data used to mark US citizens as dangerous because they support the wrong party or organization. See Ron Paul followers in numerous States, and more recently the IRS targeting of certain groups. And that is just the tip of the iceberg.

Now from what we know, there is plenty we can logically speculate. Think bigger, because the people in power do.

I agree, that they are dangerous, but I'm not aware of anybody actually suffering because of them without deserving it.

If the Justice system is being bypassed, how can you claim that someone deserved suffering exactly? You don't see the Justice system being bypassed as infringing on Liberty? In your mind this is somehow not violating the US Constitution?

The rest of your comments I will summarize as this. The fact that you believe every turd painted gold has great value is rather frightening. To be very specific here is another great quote from you.

"parallel construction" helps police lie about how they knew of the accused's wrong-doing, but the target must be engaged in some criminality in the first place.

I had a lengthy reply but will just say "Read the Constitution and figure out what and why a warrant is required." The lack of a court order or warrant is illegal by our own laws, only made partially acceptable to politicians by the Patriot Act (which numerous people including myself fought and fight against).

will just say "Read the Constitution and figure out what and why a warrant is required."

I know perfectly well, what the Constitution says on the matter. Moreover, I agree with you — and expressed this agreement already — that the way NSA is used is dangerous and illegal.

But my point remains — NSA has not been used to actually harm innocents (quite the contrary, actually). Some day they might be used to frame someone inconvenient — through actions going well beyond what you refer to

But my point remains — NSA has not been used to actually harm innocents

My point remains -- this is pure speculation which can not be proven. Knowing the heads of the agency have perjured themselves, I don't trust any claim made by those same people.

Once again, You have stated that they have acted illegally and lied, but you then claim they have not done anything against innocents. I am pretty sure this is called speaking out of both sides of your mouth, and if you really believe it it's called delusion.

Don't get me wrong on that either. I'm not saying we have proof that the

An innocent person who has the means to get good lawyers can't be sent to prison based on NSA-provided data by itself. If you're willing to spend the time and lose a large chunk of your life in the process, you can probably make it go away eventually. Being sent to prison is hardly the only way that a government agency can harass you.

The doctrine is worth defending, but the fact remains: NSA-provided data has not been — and can not be, not by itself, anyway — used to frame an innocent person.

That's assuming it's real evidence. The problem with parallel construction (aside from the obvious fact that it allows the circumvention of our 4th Amendment rights) is that without the ability to know where the hell the evidence against you came from, there's no way to investigate it or question its validity. If the police or prosec

Putin is a far worse threat to the world peace, than Obama or Bush before him.

Putin is no peace neck for sure, he isn't a good guy by any stretch and probably isn't doing what is in the best interest of the nation he leads but to suggest he is a bigger threat to world peace than Obama is silly.

Putin's invasions of foreign nations have all been of neighboring or nearly so territories with for the most part pretty clear economic or militarily strategic reason for Russian interest. Georgia being his most naked land grab.

Yes, mi is a strange fruit indeed, but he does seem more intelligent than the average conservative (or whatever he is) so it's a bit more fun to argue with him.

The US has a long history of backing guerrillas to topple dictators, just to install new dictators that they can eventually defame and then repeat the entire cycle again. ISIS is really doing America's work with American weapons. http://stormcloudsgathering.co... [stormcloudsgathering.com]

It's much easier to digest the depressing headlines about ISIS atrocities when you admi

Putin's invasions of foreign nations have all been of neighboring or nearly so territories

So, Putin is allowed to meddle in Ukraine (the ousted President, for example, would never have gotten elected in the first place, where it not for Russian support both overt and covert) because his fiefdom happens to be geographically close to it? Nice. Should I ask about Syria — which is two seas apart from Russia — now, or would that be impolite?

The main reason for Putin;s invasion of Crimea is Sevastopol. Over the years, Russia / USSR has poured billions into this town, and it is a strategic naval base. From a military standpoint, Putin would have been stupid to just let it go.

According to most, Snowden did his patriotic duty. You don't even have the sack to post with a registered account, yet you're going to be judge jury and executioner for this man? If even a small fraction of the world had half the courage of this man our collective western society would be much better. Like it used to be.

According to most, Snowden did his patriotic duty. You don't even have the sack to post with a registered account, yet you're going to be judge jury and executioner for this man? If even a small fraction of the world had half the courage of this man our collective western society would be much better. Like it used to be.

You are remarkably restrained in the face of imbecility. As well as lucid. I admire you.

I suspect that, if you were to research it, you'd find that the majority of the population would want Snowden to stand trial and serve time. He is a fugitive, and is not a criminal only in the sense that he hasn't been convicted.

I believe that most Slashdotters want him exonerated (I do, and like everybody else I extrapolate from one data point), but we're not a representative sample of the US population.

Not a problem for him. He's not an employee or agent of the Russian government, or doing anything that annoys them. In fact, having him there basically lets Putin thumb his nose at the US, so he's welcome there.

Russia's basically one of those places where you're probably fairly safe, as long as you don't get on the wrong side of anyone who's too powerful.

I don't understand this argument. It sounds a lot like the bullshit that flows from the mouths of John Kerry about it. No matter what Russia does or does not do to its people, that in no way makes the NSA's behavior lessor or more virtuous. We have a Constitution, we have a body of Legal precedent that establishes protections and we have a common largely shared understanding among the public of what those protections mean and are; the NSA just ignores them and does what it wants anyway.

We are loosing our government by and FOR the people in drips and drabs and the NSA's behavior is a drop in that bucket. Snowden could have done nothing, he could have done his 'job' and added to the problem, or he could do what he did even though it amounts to trying to empty the bucket with a tea spoon. He chose to start bailing at great personal cost to himself. I can only wish I had the balls to do that.

Snowden will very likely never by able to go home again. He will never be truly free again, comfortable maybe but greatly constrained in what he can say and do. He needs the protection of Putin who is purely mercenary. Snowden will always be more constrained than he would have been had he done nothing to shelter us from the infringements that were silently taking place against our liberties.

AND THAT ISN"T GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU! No he hast to be martyr as well for some reason. He does not have a lot of choices, there are not many places or people he can go to with the ability to protect him, let alone the desire or will. Putin is the best of bad choices probably. Will I be disappointed if Snowden starts telling us what a standup guy Vladimir is and how Russia is a shining example of freedom and democracy; yes I would. I will however accept his silence on the matter, as hypercritical. He needs a place to stay, you don't insult the master of the manor when you are guest. Russia's problems are not Snowden's fight, that is fight for the citizens of Russia. Snowden fought for freedom in his country, my country, likely your country. I think 'we' owe him gratitude!

I vote that you move to somewhere where your money won't be taken from you by the government.

As is, of course, perfectly clear from my post, I do not object to all taxation. I do object to taxation required to fight the colossal failure lovingly referred to as "War on Poverty" [forbes.com]. The cost of which happens to eclipse the combined costs of all of our nation's real wars since the very establishment of the Republic combined.

It's a beautiful country where the government is not able to stop the enterprising population from pursing happiness by becoming a pirate, having adventures and uncovering booty at the sea. All you need is a ship, lots of guns and men with little to no morals - all of which are very easy to find in this real libertarian paradise. The best of all: when you make it big (and you will) the government will take not one gold bullion from you. You get to keep all the fruits of your work, minus the Do Not Cut My Th

You make it sound like Snowden traded in his used car. NO; he landed in Russia after being denied asylum in Hong Kong. And his asylum there is supposedly temporary, although I'm sure it tickles Putin no end to have him there. As for money in our political system, I certainly agree with you, I'm kind of warming up to this notion of publicly funding campaigns to keep special interests at bay (somewhat), but Snowden's alarums are certainly valid, earnest, and shocking, imo.

Why do you fucks keep repeating this tired and debunked talking point? Snowden never chose Russia as his destination. The United States revoked his passport while he was in transit, thus stranding him there.

Maybe you should ask why the United States blundered so terribly to allow Snowden to become a chess piece for Putin that allows him to so brazenly thumb his nose at the US. But you won't ask this, and nobody else who repeats these talking points ever asks this, because it correctly assigns blame where it

Firstly, this is kind of strawman, base on non-verifiable argument (likely he is a tool of Kremlin or not, he works for Russia Gov. or not), attempts to redirect the story.

Secondly, Russia is NOT his choice, moreover not Putin's evil plan to adopt him. (Julian Assange confirmed it's his plan, that he thought Russia is the safest place for Snowden).
Assange was right, proof:http://www.wired.com/2014/08/e... [wired.com]

The story, by Greg Miller, recounts daily meetings with senior officials from the FBI, CIA, and State Department, all desperately trying to come up with ways to capture Snowden. One official told Miller: “We were hoping he was going to be stupid enough to get on some kind of airplane, and then have an ally say: ‘You’re in our airspace. Land.’ ” He wasn’t. And since he disappeared into Russia, the US seems to have lost all trace of him.

Thirdly, because of outside CIS reader can't read Russian, the MSM can spin story likely: 'suspect

I'm not so sure about NK. You can really only stay there as a tourist, and that's for a limited duration. At least with Russia, as Snowden has shown, it's completely possible to go over there and obtain gainful employment if you have decent skills.