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Re: 3/21/07 Pacers @ Spurs Post Game Thread

This must be what its like when the life is sucked right out of a franchise...

It isn't too much fun right now.

What I hate more than anything (and it brings back vivid nightmares from the 80's) is that the Pacers can play pretty well, they can play pretty hard, they can seemingly be in the game for the most part. All that can be taking place, but when I'm watching the game I have zero confidence that the Pacers team might actually win.

Re: 3/21/07 Pacers @ Spurs Post Game Thread

13-0 run in the early to mid 3rd with Tinsley out, no Quis, and JO clearly hurting. Not exactly a surprise.

What's killing me is just how obviously the team has become a 2 man show - Tins and JO. Tins is playing sloppy and careless and it annoys me, but at times I can't even blame him. I can't take any more of the Dun/Troy/Granger black hole on offense paired with similar issues on defense.

They run sets for them and they can't make wide open looks. Dun flies to the lane and can't finish the floater/layup. On and on it goes.

As a fan I just have zero confidence in those guys, I don't really feel like anyone other than perhaps Ike at times can be considered a legit (not broken plays) scoring threat out of a set offense. Dun seemed to have found his offense via the 2pt shot a week or so ago, but then he starts to run ice cold again and the team struggles because of it.

Every so often Dun, Troy and/or DG will get hot and the team looks better, but the Pacers simply don't have the extra scoring help beyond JO/Tins that they can rely on.

And when one of your go-to scorers is typically shooting in the low 40's with a low 30's 3P% you know your team is out of options.

Maybe Rick is gone, but it won't make a bit of difference if this roster isn't adjusted in a major way again this summer. They forced that stupid GS trade and it's been punching them in the groin ever since. There is just nowhere near enough talent on the team.

I still think they can make the postseason, and I also think that they aren't getting a top 10 pick this year anyway so they might as well push for the playoffs and a couple of home games for revenue bumps (and to keep the LONGEST streak in the NBA alive - tied with SA of course).

Re: 3/21/07 Pacers @ Spurs Post Game Thread

but the Pacers simply don't have the extra scoring help beyond JO/Tins that they can rely on.

They don't have scoring help from JO/Tins either.

And when one of your go-to scorers is typically shooting in the low 40's with a low 30's 3P% you know your team is out of options.

Maybe Rick is gone, but it won't make a bit of difference if this roster isn't adjusted in a major way again this summer. They forced that stupid GS trade and it's been punching them in the groin ever since. There is just nowhere near enough talent on the team.

They weren't going far the other way either. They were going to be somebody's first round knockout whether they made the GS trade or not IMHO. It was only a matter of time before the wheels flew off this thing.

This season was torpedoed 8 games into it when JO balked at the coach's authority, balked at TPTB's plans, and instead of getting the coach's back he stuck a knife in it. It doesn't even matter if JO was right or was wrong in what he said... A: He's not the coach. B: He didn't give anything a chance. C: He did one of the worst things possible when he undermined Carlisle's authority to run this team.

I still think they can make the postseason, and I also think that they aren't getting a top 10 pick this year anyway so they might as well push for the playoffs and a couple of home games for revenue bumps (and to keep the LONGEST streak in the NBA alive - tied with SA of course).

No... This team doesn't deserve to make the playoffs AND management can't be trusted to do the right thing if by some miracle this team would back into the playoffs. This season needs to die the death it deserves (was it Hicks who said that?). Draft pick or not, I don't want this mess of a team giving management any second thoughts about what needs to be done. Just say "no" to making the playoffs as someone's punching bag.

And on another note....

I can't believe anyone would still even want Tinsley on the team after the crap he pulled tonight. I could maybe understand it if there was a reason to be frustrated on the court but he CLEARLY charged and he CLEARLY made a bad play (not that there's anything unusual in that). And I believe he tossed the ball as a premediated act to get kicked out of the game. It didn't look spur of the moment. Perhaps his favorite San Antonio nightspot was closing early and he didn't want to miss last call?

Can we just forfeit the remaining games?

-Bball

Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

------

"A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

Of course a lot depends on Ik's future development Vs Powell's, but I wonder if we would have made the trade again, had we the option to decide it now. Probably not.

Umm, no. Ike is already better than Powell. There isn't even a debate on that. That trade just seems so, I don't know exactly what word to use, but pointless seems ok. I mean I'm just not sure why we did it now, at all.

Of course a lot depends on Ik's future development Vs Powell's, but I wonder if we would have made the trade again, had we the option to decide it now. Probably not.

I'm pretty sure they'd still do it. The deal wasn't done for this season, the deal was done for the future of the team. Ridding ourselves of a team cancer (Jackson), picking up a potential J.O. replacement (Ike), and making Granger, Quis, and Shawne a bigger part of the team. Dunleavy and Murphy probably weren't even looked at as a big part of the deal, just two solid role players and likely backups on next years team. Sure their salaries suck, but you've gotta do what you've gotta do to make the team better in the long run.

Re: 3/21/07 Pacers @ Spurs Post Game Thread

I for one am not happy how things are going game wise but I am glad the
Jackson trade was made. Some more trades are needed to rid the team
of all traces of knuckleheaddom. Yes things are bleak but brighter days are
ahead. It may take 3 more years but it will get better. The fans are spoiled.

Of course a lot depends on Ik's future development Vs Powell's, but I wonder if we would have made the trade again, had we the option to decide it now. Probably not.

I believe with all my heart that this was the best trade we could have gotten for Jackson. No other team would have taken him. So yes I think it was a trade they would have done again.

One thing that I found interesting. During the Rockets game, if you listened to Doug Collins carefully. What he didn't say I think speaks volumes. First he said he had lunch with Rick Carlisle (they must be friends of some sort) and all Doug kept saying during the telecast is how the Pacers were forced to make the trade that they had to make it. He never once even hinted at "well maybe they could have waited for a better trade". So I took that to mean that Rick made it clear to him that Pacers knew this was the best deal they could get. And also Doug is pretty close to Mike Dunleavy - both Mike Dunleavy's

Re: 3/21/07 Pacers @ Spurs Post Game Thread

I believe with all my heart that this was the best trade we could have gotten for Jackson. No other team would have taken him. So yes I think it was a trade they would have done again.

One thing that I found interesting. During the Rockets game, if you listened to Doug Collins carefully. What he didn't say I think speaks volumes. First he said he had lunch with Rick Carlisle (they must be friends of some sort) and all Doug kept saying during the telecast is how the Pacers were forced to make the trade that they had to make it. He never once even hinted at "well maybe they could have waited for a better trade". So I took that to mean that Rick made it clear to him that Pacers knew this was the best deal they could get. And also Doug is pretty close to Mike Dunleavy - both Mike Dunleavy's

I agree with this. Jack needed to go. Al they probably could have kept but things were still not working out. We can't complain about the trade. Just be glad we got any talent back and some young talent as well.

What makes me mad is how what forced Jack to be traded is the way the infamous "common fan" turned on him. He was our best perimeter defender, most intense competitor, and had been playing well since that early season injury (that he fought through, like all his injuries). Horrible that we were forced to trade Jack...but we were.

Re: 3/21/07 Pacers @ Spurs Post Game Thread

I believe with all my heart that this was the best trade we could have gotten for Jackson. No other team would have taken him. So yes I think it was a trade they would have done again.

One thing that I found interesting. During the Rockets game, if you listened to Doug Collins carefully. What he didn't say I think speaks volumes. First he said he had lunch with Rick Carlisle (they must be friends of some sort) and all Doug kept saying during the telecast is how the Pacers were forced to make the trade that they had to make it. He never once even hinted at "well maybe they could have waited for a better trade". So I took that to mean that Rick made it clear to him that Pacers knew this was the best deal they could get. And also Doug is pretty close to Mike Dunleavy - both Mike Dunleavy's

Yeah, and I agree with how he put it: (paraphrased) "They knew they were getting change on the dollar, but they had to make those trades" referring to Ron and Jack. Ultimately, I agree. It just sucks talent-wise.

Re: 3/21/07 Pacers @ Spurs Post Game Thread

It's starting to look like Tinsley is trying to force a trade. He's becoming increasingly aggressive and putting up pretty good numbers, which makes him look like he's a good player. He's also bringing out his bag of tricks which was clearly why Carlisle benched him that first year. He's forcing these between the legs, around the back etc...and he's knows there's nothing Carlisle can do about it. He got kicked out of the game last night and he'll start in the next game.

Those of you complaining about his "And1" style have to at least admit it's exciting. At this point it looks like another one bites the dust, due to having to play for Rick Carlisle.......Ron Artest, Stephen Jackson, Al Harrington, Jamaal Tinsley "da da dunt dunt dunt da dunt dunt dunt da dunt". I wonder who'll be next it looks like Granger is having a blast out there.

Re: 3/21/07 Pacers @ Spurs Post Game Thread

It's starting to look like Tinsley is trying to force a trade. He's becoming increasingly aggressive and putting up pretty good numbers, which makes him look like he's a good player. He's also bringing out his bag of tricks which was clearly why Carlisle benched him that first year. He's forcing these between the legs, around the back etc...and he's knows there's nothing Carlisle can do about it. He got kicked out of the game last night and he'll start in the next game.

Those of you complaining about his "And1" style have to at least admit it's exciting. At this point it looks like another one bites the dust, due to having to play for Rick Carlisle.......Ron Artest, Stephen Jackson, Al Harrington, Jamaal Tinsley "da da dunt dunt dunt da dunt dunt dunt da dunt". I wonder who'll be next it looks like Granger is having a blast out there.

Mark Jackson threw a lot of those behind the back, between the legs, sometimes between the defender's legs passes too...the difference was, they ended up in our players' hands for a score, rather than in the other team's hands for a fast break going the other direction.

Sometimes a player's greatest challenge is coming to grips with his role on the team. -- Scottie Pippen