tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post3293150193671549169..comments2014-04-18T09:47:55.100-04:00Comments on GROGNARDIA: Retrospective: Warhammer 40,000: Rogue TraderJames Maliszewskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-33227731017557491612012-10-28T20:07:26.248-04:002012-10-28T20:07:26.248-04:0040k, as you might expect, has gone through its sha...40k, as you might expect, has gone through its share of changes -- paralleling many of the changes in D&amp;D. Rogue Trader, w/ its unapologetic borrowing from Dune, Star Wars, and D&amp;D, has that rough, energetic, &quot;hobbyist&quot; feel (it includes a section on how to make your own terrain from a dessert tub!). Nothing is &quot;official&quot; or locked down in any way in RT -- not unit stats, unit organization, equipment lists, or even the way that the now-iconic space marines are depicted in the game&#39;s quite varied artwork.<br /><br />In my opinion though, the very best part of RT is an easily-overlooked little chart on page 58: &quot;The Point System&quot; opens things up so that the player can use any model or combination of models and stat them out for the RT system. This reminds me very much of the way that Gygax used dime store dinosaurs and monsters to develop new creatures to challenge his wargaming buddies. What a difference from the carefully marketed official &quot;codex&quot; releases of today&#39;s 40k.MoldvayKindernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-30903361314074434992012-09-24T06:00:03.443-04:002012-09-24T06:00:03.443-04:00On the other hand, publishing the Ciaphas Cain boo...On the other hand, publishing the Ciaphas Cain books has been neither a creative nor a financial mistake for them! If you haven&#39;t encountered them, you should check them out - they&#39;re basically The Reluctant Adventures of Commissar Blackadder Flashman, Hero of the Imperium.<br /><br />Some of the recent Codices and rulebooks have been very lacking in humour though, and most of the novel lines are fairly serious.finbikkifinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-75269558880143723272012-09-24T03:41:37.784-04:002012-09-24T03:41:37.784-04:00Exactly. I think the big creative mistake GW have ...Exactly. I think the big creative mistake GW have made over the past couple of decades -- and it&#39;s not been a financial mistake, it&#39;s clear to see -- is removing the humour from their settings.Kelvin Greenhttp://profiles.google.com/thekelvingreennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-79817529824275000322012-09-24T03:38:01.711-04:002012-09-24T03:38:01.711-04:00That&#39;s exactly my impression of the latter gam...That&#39;s exactly my impression of the latter game too. Great idea, spoiled a little by the mechanics.Kelvin Greenhttp://profiles.google.com/thekelvingreennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-64977151905369416392012-09-24T03:36:57.869-04:002012-09-24T03:36:57.869-04:00They were indeed. A nebulous term!They were indeed. A nebulous term!Kelvin Greenhttp://profiles.google.com/thekelvingreennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-59572933386073154822012-09-16T08:55:35.029-04:002012-09-16T08:55:35.029-04:00Interesting... This is actually the 2nd Warhammer ...Interesting... This is actually the 2nd Warhammer article I&#39;ve read this week. Slate magazine had something on it as well: <br /><br />http://www.slate.com/articles/life/gaming/2012/09/warhammer_40k_why_american_troops_love_to_play_a_game_featuring_orks_necrons_and_space_marines_.html<br /><br />I&#39;ve never given it much thought either... other than the fact that the 2 gaming stores near me are both pretty much 75% Warhammer stuff... 25% everything else.<br /><br />It kinda seems like many of the current crop of video game designers who make sci-fi FPS-type games (Halo, Gears of War, Unreal Tournament, and the like...) owe much to the Warhammer look and ethos, however.Ed Liberatorehttp://www.facebook.com/edlibnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-28696200122469150372012-09-15T10:32:59.323-04:002012-09-15T10:32:59.323-04:00They didn&#39;t release a 40k RPG back in the 80s,...They didn&#39;t release a 40k RPG back in the 80s, but they started a whole line of them just a few years ago, with different books covering different power levels (anything between Imperial Guard and Space Marine). Might be worth checking out.doreshnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-69367695247530689662012-09-14T10:15:23.464-04:002012-09-14T10:15:23.464-04:00I like almost all of what they did in the current ...I like almost all of what they did in the current Rogue Trader RPG, but it&#39;s just so *fiddly.* Piles of modifiers to everything, it seems like. But there&#39;s tons of neat ideas, and there aren&#39;t a lot of RPGs where you can start out with a kilometers-long starship capable of planetary bombardment.Nathan Eastonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-23481574021761072512012-09-13T22:42:20.027-04:002012-09-13T22:42:20.027-04:00The first thing I did with my copy was run it as a...The first thing I did with my copy was run it as a RPG...Reverance Pavanenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-9688258345646256292012-09-13T16:11:36.308-04:002012-09-13T16:11:36.308-04:00Those games were tagged &quot;3D Role Play&quot;, ...Those games were tagged &quot;3D Role Play&quot;, weren&#39;t they?Andy Bartlettnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-39567382929894217502012-09-13T15:24:37.897-04:002012-09-13T15:24:37.897-04:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Ramjetnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-47476852512969335872012-09-13T10:34:08.992-04:002012-09-13T10:34:08.992-04:00Warhammer 40,000 is a pricey RPG/miniatures Game t...Warhammer 40,000 is a pricey RPG/miniatures Game to get into but now that FASA is back divested of its Battletech properties and with a new Space RPG to rival Thousand Suns it wont be alone...reddeerrunnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-50522875656506872062012-09-13T10:32:31.120-04:002012-09-13T10:32:31.120-04:00I never got into the WH40K games, save for Necromu...I never got into the WH40K games, save for Necromunda, and even still, I would have preferred it as an RPG. I then found out that it started out on WD magazine, as a semi-RPG/wargame game called Confrontation. I like the mix of genre and techno-goth style of the wargame, but I also like the open-ended nature of Confrontation.<br /><br />I have read the old Rogue Trader book, and I also like it. The later stuff made the setting feel too serious, so it is nice to know that it&#39;s roots are not as serious-minded - much like the Judge Dredd comics. <br /><br />&quot;In the grimdark future that is Grimdark 40,000, there is only grimdark war! Oh, and EVERYTHING is decorated cute little skulls!&quot; ^~^Malcadonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-49099828307599305062012-09-13T10:31:00.104-04:002012-09-13T10:31:00.104-04:00I will never forget the feeling of &quot;whoah&quo...I will never forget the feeling of &quot;whoah&quot; that this book gave me as a teenager, somewhat akin to an awakening perhaps. Either way, I loved it and lament the blandness that followed. On the other hand, I have been quite enjoying the Horus Heresy novels, which feel somehow &quot;right&quot;. I was also surprised how much of the Foundation novels were in the Rogue Trader universe.Matthew James Stanhamnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-31513652465262549672012-09-13T08:21:55.310-04:002012-09-13T08:21:55.310-04:00The Rogue Trader illustrations and backround borro...The Rogue Trader illustrations and backround borrow heavily from then contemporary science fiction and fantasy. Let&#39;s see:<br />- robot on pages 12 and 118 looks like Macross robot Spartan<br />- Vortex grenade (p. 96) is A D &amp; D treasure Sphere pf Annihilation (DMG p. 154), though may come from earlier Laserburn<br />- Ambulls (p. 207) are Umber Hulks <br />- Bouncers (p. 207) are ship mascots from 1974 movie Dark Star<br />- Ferro-Beast (p. 210-211) are Rust Monsters<br />- original Genestealers (p. 211) are from 1979 movie Aliens<br /><br />and so on, not to forget Zombies, Vampires and others. Some details remind of japanese science fiction, such as Galaxy Express 999. An another example would be psycannon (Slaves to Darkness, p. 250) which reminds Cobra&#39;s psycho-gun in Space Cobra television series.Tuurinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-87233288862584407552012-09-13T07:59:18.048-04:002012-09-13T07:59:18.048-04:00The original Rogue Trader game was truly revolutio...The original Rogue Trader game was truly revolutionary, based on the foundation laid by Bryan Ansell&#39;s Laserburn. The rules are exemplary for futuristic roleplay campaings. For example, author Rick Priestley writes in Compendium (1989, p. 89) about &quot;development of psi-powers in campaigns&quot; and mentions using additional rules for &quot;our WH40K improvised roleplay games&quot;. Same type of gameplay was presented in the Realm of Chaos volumes. A good example of such being the Star Child Sensei Adventurer Bands (The Lost and the Damned, p. 184), which resemble to some degree the heroes of the Star Wars movies.Tuurinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-1024718390710408922012-09-13T05:36:04.870-04:002012-09-13T05:36:04.870-04:00It wasn&#39;t set in the 40K universe, assuming yo...It wasn&#39;t set in the 40K universe, assuming you&#39;re thinking of Laserburn, but it had a lot of elements that made it into 40K. One or two things that didn&#39;t make it in at first showed up in Necromunda (the 2e 40K-based gang-skirmish game) as well, like the Redemptionists.finbikkifinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-56951889340805923382012-09-13T05:34:01.065-04:002012-09-13T05:34:01.065-04:00It&#39;s the mix of gritty darkness, black humour ...It&#39;s the mix of gritty darkness, black humour and blatant silliness that makes it work. I mean, one of the example characters is Inquisitor Obiwan Sherlock Clousseau.finbikkifinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-66560396680472310532012-09-13T05:31:02.448-04:002012-09-13T05:31:02.448-04:00I&#39;m pretty sure those are the original rules, ...I&#39;m pretty sure those are the original rules, or identical reprints.<br /><br />15mm.co.uk is completely legitimate, and their service is excellent. I&#39;d go with their (delightfully simple) USE ME rules or something else over Laserburn if you want to actually play, though.finbikkifinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-71658189194178467672012-09-13T05:29:14.373-04:002012-09-13T05:29:14.373-04:00Quite a few wargames use referees - even modern on...Quite a few wargames use referees - even modern ones. Too Fat Lardies make some excellent games which officially require one, but they&#39;re designed so players can come to an agreement anyway. For instance, shooting in their WW2 game depends on whether the firers have a poor, good or great shot at the target, based on cover, positioning and all that. A neutral referee is supposed to decide it, but it works fine if most of the time you have a good enough shot, unless it&#39;s obvious to both players that you&#39;re firing at infantry on a flat stretch of road without cover, or hull-down tanks.<br /><br />Of course, it also doesn&#39;t have a points system, and assumes you&#39;ll set up a scenario or just say &quot;Oi, Steve, fancy a game next week? I&#39;ll bring a company of Brits, a few tanks.&quot; If you&#39;re attacking a fortified defender, bring better or more troops, and so on.<br /><br />It still gives the best result when you have someone set up a scenario, though. Lay out the board, let the defenders start hidden and use the spotting rules, have the referee control reinforcements and events, occasionally take a player aside to say &quot;That wood you just tried to move into is far thicker than it looked, it&#39;s effectively impassable.&quot;<br /><br />So yeah, referees still exist in wargaming. Hooray.finbikkifinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-68706782168888516782012-09-13T05:08:19.419-04:002012-09-13T05:08:19.419-04:00thanks for the link. :)thanks for the link. :)shlominusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-67541292541294663182012-09-13T04:55:51.790-04:002012-09-13T04:55:51.790-04:00That&#39;s a great blog too. The guys still use RT...That&#39;s a great blog too. The guys still use RT quite heavily in their games, and they have a lot of reports there that give a sense of how much like a tactical RPG the game can be if played that way. There are some full write-ups deeper down in the history.<br /><br />http://www.talesfromthemaelstrom.blogspot.com/search/label/Battle%20Reports<br /><br />There was also a joint interview with John Stallard doing the rounds a year or two back too, more focused on the development of GW as a whole, but with discussion of 40K, WFB and D&amp;D. It was hosted by Battlegames it seems - and maybe still is somewhere. Maybe someone with better fu than me can dig up a link.Porky_Posterhttp://theporkster.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-62649754124178713872012-09-13T04:35:33.244-04:002012-09-13T04:35:33.244-04:00That sounds like Laserburn. There&#39;s a pic of w...That sounds like Laserburn. There&#39;s a pic of what look like original prints here:<br /><br />http://terminusomegamass.blogspot.com/2012/01/give-your-friends-gift-of-laserburn.html<br /><br />This looks like a legit outlet for them today, although it&#39;s unclear how close to the originals they are:<br /><br />http://www.15mm.co.uk/Laserburn_Publications.htmPorky_Posterhttp://theporkster.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-90963969290835007012012-09-13T03:47:55.860-04:002012-09-13T03:47:55.860-04:00I had a long response and then my computer just cr...I had a long response and then my computer just crapped out on me for a Windows update. I hate that. Here&#39;s a brief recap.<br />Yes, Rogue Trader is one of my favorite games that I never play.<br />I wish it would&#39;ve been and RPG. The Fantasu Flight 40K RPGs are nice, but to crunchy for me. I wanted something more like Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 1st edition.<br /><br /><br />Dragon #149 has an article titled &quot;Orcs In Spcae!&quot; by Ken Rolston discussing the topic. It provides some basic rules for extending hit points of personality characters. There&#39;s a critical hit chart and a survival chart to determine if the charcter was knocked out, injured or dead.<br /><br /><br />Also Games Workshop produced Citi-Blok for use with both Judge Dredd and Rogur Trader. it was a collection of card-stock floorplans and props much like their Halls of Horror set. It also included rules for playing smaller 40K squads inside buildings, making it even closer to a skirmish game or RPG.<br />http://index.rpg.net/display-entry.phtml?mainid=9072Timothy Schaefernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-12599201779333951372012-09-13T01:31:25.543-04:002012-09-13T01:31:25.543-04:00I bought my copy of Rogue Trader at the same comic...I bought my copy of Rogue Trader at the same comic shop I&#39;d been buying 2000 AD comics and collections. Because I already loved Judge Dredd, Nemesis, Rogue Trooper and ABC Warriors I immediately got what the game was aiming for.<br />It was a long while before I actually played a proper minis game with those rules but I started incorporating elements of the setting into my Gamma World games right away... becoming that setting&#39;s distant future which the PCs visited (usually unwillingly) on occasion.Kenneth Sewardnoreply@blogger.com