Dotsie wrote:I see what you mean about him being a hero, but you make it sound as if moving on to the next person was because he sees they need his help. Actually, he needs the boys help, to make money.

Maurice is the same as Moist. He's in it for the thrill of making money, not for the actual money itself. That's why he lets the rats keep his share of the money they'd already made. He doesn't really need money - he's a cat! But it's fun to get.

Dotsie wrote:...but his newly found conscience lets him down later in the book, and he can't manipulate (or abandon) as easily as he used to.

I don't agree. Throughout the whole book he is manipulative. By not abandoning the rats when he had a chance (because of his newly acquired conscience) is nothing to do with the waning of his manipulative ability.

Maurice is a cat. Cats manipulate people.

"Since then (becoming intelligent) he'd done what cats always did. He steered people. Now some of the rats counted as people too, of course. But people were people, even if they had four legs......"

(BTW nice reverse "Um..." )

"It's better to belong where you don't belong than not to belong where you used to belong,remembering when you used to belong there" -Sneebs

You could write pages about their theological discussions and how the Mr Floppsy book is their Bible etc etc.

Maurice is simple, but has complex desires.

"I suppose there isn't a Big Cat in the sky, is there?"
"I'M SURPRISED AT YOU, MAURICE. OF COURSE THERE ARE NO CAT GODS. THAT WOULD BE TOO MUCH LIKE....WORK."
Maurice nodded. One good thing about being a cat, apart from the extra lives, was that the theology was a lot simpler.

This book was written by a cat owner.

"It's better to belong where you don't belong than not to belong where you used to belong,remembering when you used to belong there" -Sneebs

He's certainly (with Sardine's advice) using the trap scar to full advantage and I can see the analogy. Dark Tan does become very much the leader after that and Dangerous Beans seems to disappear from the story pretty much after Maurice saves him.

Last edited by Tonyblack on Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

A lot of respect for the rats I had disappeared when Darktan was prepared to lie about religion purely as a means to cling on to power. Sadly, the other rats were prepared to believe him, so already the seeds of the rats' society's self-destruction have already been sown.

Whereas the true hero not only actually met the bone rat, but also leapt on him making his little scythe skitter away across the floor.

At least Maurice was honest!

"It's better to belong where you don't belong than not to belong where you used to belong,remembering when you used to belong there" -Sneebs

poohbcarrot wrote:A lot of respect for the rats I had disappeared Sadly, the other rats were prepared to believe him, so already the seeds of the rats' society's self-destruction have already been sown.

Whereas the true hero not only actually met the bone rat, but also leapt on him making his little scythe skitter away across the floor.

At least Maurice was honest!

Umm....Maurice was honest? When, where? When was he not assisting the rats to feather his own nest (like telling them the silver money was worth more than the gold money).

And I have no idea what you are talking about when you say, "when Darktan was prepared to lie about religion purely as a means to cling on to power. " There is no question that Darktan had a life-changing experience (or perhaps a near-death experience). But he's not the one who suggests using the tooth marks from the trap-which isn't exactly a religious experience. That was Sardine who, having told him that he changed after being caught in the trap says,
"Seems to me, boss, that anyone who could stare down the Bone Rat . . .well, no one is gong to want to mess with him, am I right? A man who wears the teethmarks of the Bone Rat like a belt? Uh-uh, no.People'll followa rat like that. That was a good thing you did back there, with ol' Hamnpork. Burying him and widdling on top and putting a sign on him -- well, the old rats like that, and so do the young ones. Shows'em you're thinking for everyone."

And Darktan's immediate reaction is to say that he needs Dangerous Beans because he "knows the map for thinking. We've got to think our way out of this. Running around and squeaking won't work anymore."

Further, to be technical, it's not Maurice but the dead Maurice who pounces on the Bone Rat, and is immediately sorry when he is picked up by the scruff of the neck by DEATH. He performs his one noble action in giving up one of his lives for Dangerous Beans at this point--but even he can't explain why, and hopes no one finds out about it because it's so uncatlike. Further, he doesn't want to remember that he's done this because it'd be too embarrassing.

Maurice, perhaps, could be called a kind of anti-hero. Someone who has the time of his life strutting up and down and ordering everyone around. But since he can no longer do that in this town, he leaves.

I don't think Dark Tan had any opposition at that stage. Hamnpork was dead and everyone automatically looked to him as the leader. It seems to me that he was a somewhat reluctant leader at that and would have been far happier leading his squad.

I think that he may have reluctantly started a legend when he got trapped in the erm... trap and no amount of trying to deny it would have stopped that - so why not use it? I don't think Dark Tan was trying to be a Christ-like figure - if anyone came back from the dead it was Dangerous Beans and he is more Christ-like if you want to make that comparison.

Terry Pratchett wrote: (Sardines)"And you should let them think what they like about you..."But there's big rats like Inbrine and Sellby and a bunch of others, boss, and now that Hamnpork's dead, they might think they should be the leader. Get my drift?""No"Sardines sighed, "I reckon you do, boss.......Well, thanks to chattery little Nourishing, you're the rat that looked the Bone Rat right in the face and came back, aren't you?...Seems to me that anyone who could stare down the Bone Rat....well, no one is going to mess with him

Tonyblack wrote:I don't think Dark Tan had any opposition at that stage. Hamnpork was dead and everyone automatically looked to him as the leader.

So, Darktan had opposition to the leadership, but by perpetuating the "Bone Rat" lie, all opposition was squashed.

swreader wrote:And I have no idea what you are talking about when you say, "when Darktan was prepared to lie about religion purely as a means to cling on to power. "

See above.

"It's better to belong where you don't belong than not to belong where you used to belong,remembering when you used to belong there" -Sneebs

But you're suggesting that Dark Tan pretends he rose again from the dead and therefore is somehow supernatural - right?

I don't think that's the suggestion so much as that he's one tough rat who survived being crushed in a trap and has the scars to prove it. As you point out in the section you've posted, it's Nourishing who starts any sort of myth. He told her at the time that it was because of a rusty spring that he survived.

I don't think he's trying to fool anyone that he's a Christ-like figure.