"i could be wrong, but it seems the topicstarter, managed to get his hands on some ph f2 catha edulis seeds, and posted a pic of them at another forum, but the seeds he sells are mainly just normal red's. "

Hey khatmando is this true?, are your seeds realy just normal reds?, most of your plants do'nt look like reds to me. Or is he just Trolling you aswell?, paranoid delusions me thinks.

Sorry mate was a good thread but some trolls can't help but crap all over the place.

for fucks sake man get some help. Shitting allover a place (& its members) you supposedly love is not helping.

Edited March 29, 2012 by Torsten

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All the seeds and all the plants I have originate in south africa, I have been growing catha edulis for close to 20 years, and having somebody "trolling" is merely sign of insecurity or a perceived threat to their status as a know it all. I dont get involved in these things, I have been posting on another forum and have not had a single bad word said.

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I do'nt know how you get the impression I am here to start a ruckus (although I do'nt see what else you are contributing?) when I directed my questions to the OP & all questions were on topic

If there was anyone here trying to start a ruckus {(trolling)besides you of course} it might be the person who in their origianl post makes spurious claims dripping with vitriol based in paranoid delusions & born from protectionism:

"why import, if we got better seeds in australia?

carrying the owls to athen are we?

i could be wrong, but it seems the topicstarter, managed to get his hands on some ph f2 catha edulis seeds, and posted a pic of them at another forum, but the seeds he sells are mainly just normal red's."

& then carries on with their pattern of passive agressive BS. In case you did'nt know PH has a whole thread dedictaed to this sort of behaviour in Bitches & gripes (well actualy more than one).

Yeah mate I'm pretty much done with the nicities. Torsten has said i do not have to pander to his antics & has said to have it out with him if he continues his trolling.

I'm very sorry to KMD the poor fulla is just tryin to make an honest buck helping people out with a quality product & find this sort of behaviour disgraceful, not just on a personal level but a blight on our forums.

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If PH wants to make spurious claims then he needs to back them up. Not doing so is inappropriate and is really VERY unsuitable for a moderator.

So PH, please explain what basis you have for this claim:"it seems the topicstarter, managed to get his hands on some ph f2 catha edulis seeds, and posted a pic of them at another forum, but the seeds he sells are mainly just normal red's".

Just what evidence do you have that Khatman is growing your seeds?

Khatman, yes, I remember you well. Many of our early members here would have grown plants from your seeds.

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somebody pointed that pic out to me because it looks like my red narrowleaved, and for this i have good reason to believe it was grown from my seed.

but most of the plant shown in his topics show different plants.

tort, the language you use in your pm's is, not suitable for an admin, at all.

you should get a warn point, for how you talk to me via pm, you janus head.

my catha edulis seeds are better than any other i have found so far, thats true.

your seeds you sell tort, don't even germinate at times, get real.

i get here put down, allthough my product is very good???

tort, you have massive double standards, and just because you intimitate me via pm's, it doesn't mean you are right.

tort, i tried to avoid trouble with you, and asked you, in beforhand questions, so to avoid trouble, because you have such a short fuse, but you interpretated everything, regarding shruman, the wrong way.

just because you can post pretty well, it doesn't mean you are right.

only you find, that shrumans replies have some merit.

i have done a lot for this forum, i have defended you tort at ea, and can't go there anymore because of that.

do you always re pay peoples loyalety, with abuse?

what happend to gom, happy cadaver, rev and co?

are you now treating me bad aswell now?

i don't deserve it, not even if i'm wrong and the south african red narrowleaved has not been grown by my seed.

sorry for the side track, but at least you will get a lot of views.

Edited March 30, 2012 by planthelper

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Come chaps, lets focus on the real issue here, we all love catha edulis, and whose seed is bigger than whose, doesnt really matter as long as everybody has a khat tree growing in their garden. For years I have not been out in the public domain, so you might have thought that all khat came from australia but khat trees do look very similar when comparing narrow leafed with narrow leafed, lets just move on and get the information out there.

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Can anyone comment on this ? I was of the mind that picked leaves were only viable for a few days as an entheogen, so importing foliage into Oz would be non-viable, due to time-frame.. right or wrong ? If Catha leaves are legal (or at least sold) in Sydney, Please PM me with some spots where I can grab a bundle, for I would love to try some. If not, then I shall respect the restricted legal status.

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Come chaps, lets focus on the real issue here, we all love catha edulis, and whose seed is bigger than whose, doesnt really matter as long as everybody has a khat tree growing in their garden. For years I have not been out in the public domain, so you might have thought that all khat came from australia but khat trees do look very similar when comparing narrow leafed with narrow leafed, lets just move on and get the information out there.

Have a good day.

this guy is a fucken legend, he's been flat out bagged and his product called into question and he still keeps his cool. he sets a wicked example for the rest of us

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this guy is a fucken legend, he's been flat out bagged and his product called into question and he still keeps his cool. he sets a wicked example for the rest of us

Here here. This guy is fucking awesome; why are people trying to force him away like the PNG guy awhile back?

I love your work KhatMaDo! Do you have any pics of ~1 year old seedlings of various types? (narrow-leaf, red, other) I just love the way these plants develop, quite interesting. Have you ever come across the Transvaal Khat? (Catha transvaalensis) I suspect it is something like Lauridia tetragona, but interesting none-the-less. Not sure what the fruit are like, from the pic it ALMOST looks like a capsule, which could make it possibly very closely related to Catha edulis, considering most of Catha edulis' closest known relatives (from nucleotide sequences) have fleshy fruits.

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^ amen to the above, just remember that its illegal to import here and you will not get any sales, but yours advice on growing khat .. etc is invaluable an i look forward to reading more threads and seeing mroe images from you khatmando.

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I don't have the references handy, but the most current research has shown for some time now that Catha is indeed a monotypic genus and that what was known as "Catha transvaalensis" is part of another genus in Celastreae.

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I don't doubt its part of another 'genus' (fucking hate pigeon-holing stuff; such a pseudo-science...) as I said, the plant currently known as C. transvaalensis is probably more closely related to L. tetragona judging from morphology. But I think its early to speculate whether Catha is indeed monotypic, there simply hasn't been enough research. I decided to do my own research and made a phylogenetic tree from a MUSCLE alignment of 100 publicly available matK genes of all the closest sequences/relatives I could find to the Catha edulis matK sample I chose. Here's the results:

Started at 9am, took 6-fucking-hours as I used 100 bootstrap replicates to be extra 'certain'...

I've got 5 other genes I can analyse if the community wants to pay me to do it, ha

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Here here. This guy is fucking awesome; why are people trying to force him away like the PNG guy awhile back?

I love your work KhatMaDo! Do you have any pics of ~1 year old seedlings of various types? (narrow-leaf, red, other) I just love the way these plants develop, quite interesting. Have you ever come across the Transvaal Khat? (Catha transvaalensis) I suspect it is something like Lauridia tetragona, but interesting none-the-less. Not sure what the fruit are like, from the pic it ALMOST looks like a capsule, which could make it possibly very closely related to Catha edulis, considering most of Catha edulis' closest known relatives (from nucleotide sequences) have fleshy fruits.

The only difference between catha edulis and transvaalensis that I can see is the leaf seems a bit rounder and the fruit has no wing, also from reports from the arabs who chew it they say it is a bit saltier than the rest of catha edulis exactly what saltier means when translated I am not sure, I will make an effort to get more photgraphs together.