It appears that Pope Francis is not the one who called for a fight against "wild capitalism," but rather Buenos Aires governor Daniel Scioli.

We should fight against wild capitalism and confront social injustice, expressed the official in a press release."

The official, I would presume, is not the pope but the governor. wildly poor journalism run amok. IF anyone has another source confirming who exactly made the statement, I would strongly urge you to post it to this thread to clear this up one way or another.

2
posted on 07/06/2013 12:47:37 PM PDT
by Celtic Cross
(The brain is the weapon; everything else is just accessories. --FReeper Joe Brower)

I posted on the original thread of my curiosity as to the context of the quote, or even if it was the whole quote. We finally have a new bishop (who seems to be pretty good so far) after ours was transferred to Joliet, Illinois. Bishop Conlon is a commie and we’re glad to be rid of him, so I’m a bit frustrated when it appears that the Pope is making these comments. I’d love to know more about this comment and conversation if anybody has anything to add!

“Another Vatican Council II document upholds the same principle of the universal ownership of all goods and emphatically teaches, If one is in extreme necessity, he has the right to procure for himself what he needs out of the riches of others.

Maybe Enron, WorldCom, HealthSouth, The Houston Office of Arthur Andersen looking the other way when auditing Enron because Enron paid significant Fees of various accounting services. Wild Capitalism is people in top levels of Corporations putting their own selfish interest above the good of the Corporation and behaving in Unethical, and in many cases illegal ways to make money and taking entire corporations down destroying thousands of jobs among the ethical folks in said corporations.

Capitalism works when everyone plays by the rules of law and their is no information asymmetry between management, shareholders, bondholders and potential new investors, etc.

Given the fact that there was a Papal Encyclical against Socialism way back in 1878, that Pope Francis didn't go along with the "Liberation" theology crowd, and that Socialism by definition contradicts several Doctrines of the Church as well as several other Papal Encyclicals, I think it's clear that when a Catholic uses the term "wild capitalism" they're talking about excesses, not all Capitalism or Capitalists in general. They're talking about the sort of capitalism that dope dealers and child pornographers are practicing, Capitalism as practiced by predators of all sorts with no regard for the consequences of their economic actions.

While those may be extreme examples, is it really all that difficult to understand that there are a lot of things done in the name of capitalism that contradict Christian values? NO, it isn't at all difficult to understand, in fact, it's really simple. Saying, "the market made me do it" isn't an acceptable excuse for abusing your fellow man by ignoring the consequences of your actions any more than "class struggle" is.

It's very hard to believe that folks who insist the Holy Spirit guides them individually to an unerring understanding of Scripture can't figure out what "wild capitalism" means in light of Scripture and nearly twenty centuries of Catholic teaching.

Of course, there are dedicated anti-Christ propagandists who "fail to understand" whatever they figure they can use to further their agenda of fostering squabbles among Christian and who don't care about the Holy Spirit to begin with. They're the sort who only care what they can claim it means just like some wolves disguised as sheep within the Church only care what they can claim something means.

Whether playing the role of an anti-Catholic or playing the role of a faithful Catholic, folks who strive to distort fairly obvious meanings into something that fits their agenda are children of the father of lies.

22
posted on 07/06/2013 3:42:51 PM PDT
by Rashputin
(Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)

Im a bit frustrated when it appears that the Pope is making these comments

This Pope Francis is an economic leftist. Period. Conservative Catholics, here and elsewhere, keep trying to make excuses for his comments - but they aren't fooling anyone. This Pope has a lot of good qualities, but he is a disaster when it comes to economic/fiscal issues. Pope Frances isn't an outright communist or anything that radical (he seems to have distanced himself from liberation theology), but he's a big government, social welfare state supporting liberal. His economic views are fairly typical of South American Jesuits - and that's not a good thing.

Longbow, if you're going to make a sweeping assessment like "This Pope Francis is an economic Leftist, period" you're going to have to substantiate it with evidence. I value value evidence, but I don't have time for fact-free arguments. Here is what Pope Francis actually said:

" The unjust distribution of goods persists, creating a situation of social sin that cries out to Heaven and limits the possibilities of a fuller life for so many of our brothers. The challenge to eradicate poverty cannot be truthfully met as long as the poor continue to be dependents of the State. The government and other organizations should instead work to create the social conditions that will promote and protect the rights of the poor and enable them to be the builders of their own future. To those who are now promising to fix all your problems, I say, Go and fix yourself. Have a change of heart. Get to confession, before you need it even more! The current crisis will not be improved by magicians from outside the country and nor will [improvement] come from the golden mouth of our politicians, so accustomed to making incredible promises. " Fuller quotes at article here (LINK)

As FReeper dangus said, "Sounds like Ronald Reagan's speech-writers found a new employer, huh?

Rough translation: The meeting lasted around 50 minutes, and took place, according to Scioli, in an atmosphere of cordiality and intimacy, during which the Argentine Pope emphasized that Latin America had made "much" progress in avoiding the consequencies of "wild capitalism" [I think that means unregulated capitalism] and "social injustices".

I think one could consider that things like debt slavery and horrible sweatshop conditions are “wild capitalism”. Capitalism is not completely unbridled for good reason— because some people start treating others worse than the machinery, and will do so when they can get away with it. That’s one of the reasons why faith and morality have a roll in the public square, counteracting through culture and the rule of law, the tendency toward cruelty that powerful people can have.

Pope Francis doesn’t like greedy capitalists, but at least he also doesn’t like corrupt governmental leaders, either.

I’m hoping you are correct - not a Catholic, but I really like this guy. Past popes have gotten diverted from the task at hand and made global warming and other off the wall remarks which is not the place of any Church - especially if one believes that God has a plan and it doesn’t say we ruin the earth so we can’t live here any more. The Church should put positive influence on society to hopefully either effect some positive changes, or at the very least reach some new souls for the Kingdom which follows as we get introduced to Eternity vs. the tiny blip we now exist in.

31
posted on 07/07/2013 4:04:57 AM PDT
by trebb
(Where in the the hell has my country gone?)

I doubt that it matters who said it, if there were any truth to the word wild capitalism, or if there were any true capitalism of any kind the anti God socialists would not be in control of every thing in the world.

Thanks for including me. You’ll notice the tagline I’ve been using, from Pope Francis.

Pope Francis is anti-materialistic. Economic leftists see all problems in strictly materialistic terms; they hate the rich for being wealthy, but because they want the wealth, not because they are anything but purely materialists.

35
posted on 07/07/2013 4:33:48 PM PDT
by dangus
(Poverty cannot be eradicated as long as the poor remain dependent on the state - Pope Francis)

Americans conflate Capitalism with free markets. China is capitalist, but anything but free. The leftists in America have become Chinese-style Capitalists. Pope Francis is anti-materialist, but also opposed to government dependency.

36
posted on 07/07/2013 4:36:15 PM PDT
by dangus
(Poverty cannot be eradicated as long as the poor remain dependent on the state - Pope Francis)

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