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When I was in junior high I was playing games like The Realm, Asheron's Call, Dark Age of Camelot, Everquest, Well of Souls, Independent side scrollers, Runescape, etc.

What I remember about thoughts games in a nostalgic way was, them being games MADE for gamers. That were all unique, and innovative.

What I can't wrap my head around is, have I gotten old and spoiled, lost my love of them. Or have they all become games NOT for gamers, for the casual fan, and a bunch of studio juggernauts trying to make box sales, setting records Diablo III style, but presenting some of the most disappointing end game/content and breaking promises like a mother in a trailer park.

See, I feel like back in the day, games did have integrity, they were trying to make the best games they possibly could, and I'm not sure what happened.

I've bought them all, Tera, Guild Wars 2, Diablo III.

The only games I've thought were pretty good in the past 2-3 years are League of Legends and Path of Exile. If I had to pick ANY MMORPG I think is decent in the past few years I'd say Rift is a decent game, but even that didn't keep my interest for too long.

I played World of Warcraft like many of you, however WoW was never my beginning, or my end, and I feel like it did hurt the industry,

WoW was the McDonalds to our smaller family restaurants, there were more about quality and choice, more divided in style. Now every gamer is some obese dollar menu hype lover.

I don't see any games coming out in 2013 that even intrigue me. I don't see games pushing boundaries or trying to make games more immersive, or more involved community wise, I see a bunch of console like games, that are more linear that a quarter mile race track, trying to force me to do what they want every second I'm logged in. I understand there is exceptions and games that aren't as linear, but they aren't exactly thriving either.

In my opinion the best MMO to date was Asheron's Call, because it was a seamless world, with tons of lore, unique creatures no one else has used, a monarchy/allegiance/patron system, with XP passup based on followers or (people you actually get rewarded to help) not to mention a questing system you can do, or don't do, that doesn't hold your hand. Elemental Weapons (Carrying a weapon of each element type instead of getting 1 cheesy "THE DECAPITATOR" sword, you would need to hunt for many weapons of each element.

--- I just wish Turbine would kickstart a AC2, or that someone would not sell out and make the garbage they are today.

Did anyone else play Guild Wars 2 and vomit? I mean, What was the point. I logged in and was putting out fires and feeding cattle, and had access to everything in the game except skills at level 1? For what, some zergy super choppy lame PvP siege crap? I have a awesome rig, and it still ran like crap. That's todays latest and greatest?

Ugh.

Am I just getting too old for it, or is there no such thing as a solid MMO anymore.

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Yes, MMOs have become more about quick player gain than being a virtual world. The replication of this boiling down has backfired a bit by over saturation due to WoW's success. Ironically it will be that same game's continued popularity that the "standard" MMO being developed will change again. Turns out there is only one WoW :).

I would suggest Vanguard. It's pretty tuned up now and has an active dev team behind it. Almost every activity takes longer via more indepth processes so if you have the time it sounds like VG would suit you well.

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I've heard a few times Vangaurd has gotten better (ofcourse I've tried it) when it first game out though it was pretty bad, infact I think it won like most disapointing game of the year or something that year right? I had a family member that played it for years and years and lead a guild on it and swore by it, but when I played it originally it was really buggy and missing some funds for sure.

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They are more or less casinos now, without the chance for a payout at the end.

__________________________"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."--Arcken

"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.

"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE

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Originally posted by Spector88

Am I just getting too old for it

^^ This. I've been playing video games since pong in 70's. I get the same feelings, but while there are plenty of bad games out there, the fact is is that us older players have lost our innocence. Every now and then I go back on a nostalgia trip and play some of the games that I thought were so wonerful back in the day. I find myself thinking often, "Man we put up with a lot of nonsense back then. If you did this in a game today, I take to the driveway and run my car over it." But back then, because it was all fresh and uncharted territory, you easily overlooked that.

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But year most of the big budget games are a bot too adhd, trying to be a film rather than a game, a bit too hand holding and checking off lists of achievements for my liking. With the odd exception like skyrim & dishonoured.

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You aren't to old for it, they just don't make MMO's like they use to.

I'll second the Vanguard suggestion if you haven't played it. Yes, the release was a terrible and buggy mess, but it seems to have come a long way since then. It's free, so at most you end up wasting an evenings worth of time to see if you like it.

When MMO's were new, each MMO was breaking new ground, Now games are built on foundation of the older games.

As a result, after you have played one MMO, (Or two) You have seen the basics and each new MMO doesn't really drastically add new content so it all starts feeling old.

Some MMO's are trying, they are turning away from the Tab Targeting, action bar combat, going with skill based progression instead of leveling based progression, GW2 tried going without a trinity and there are a few Sandbox MMO's on the horizon that break the current themepark trend.

But still, if you have played one Theme Park or one Sandbox, the next one you play will probably be about the same, just with better graphic and a slightly updated UI.

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When I was in junior high I was playing games like The Realm, Asheron's Call, Dark Age of Camelot, Everquest, Well of Souls, Independent side scrollers, Runescape, etc.

What I remember about thoughts games in a nostalgic way was, them being games MADE for gamers. That were all unique, and innovative.

What I can't wrap my head around is, have I gotten old and spoiled, lost my love of them. Or have they all become games NOT for gamers, for the casual fan, and a bunch of studio juggernauts trying to make box sales, setting records Diablo III style, but presenting some of the most disappointing end game/content and breaking promises like a mother in a trailer park.

See, I feel like back in the day, games did have integrity, they were trying to make the best games they possibly could, and I'm not sure what happened.

I've bought them all, Tera, Guild Wars 2, Diablo III.

The only games I've thought were pretty good in the past 2-3 years are League of Legends and Path of Exile. If I had to pick ANY MMORPG I think is decent in the past few years I'd say Rift is a decent game, but even that didn't keep my interest for too long.

I played World of Warcraft like many of you, however WoW was never my beginning, or my end, and I feel like it did hurt the industry,

WoW was the McDonalds to our smaller family restaurants, there were more about quality and choice, more divided in style. Now every gamer is some obese dollar menu hype lover.

I don't see any games coming out in 2013 that even intrigue me. I don't see games pushing boundaries or trying to make games more immersive, or more involved community wise, I see a bunch of console like games, that are more linear that a quarter mile race track, trying to force me to do what they want every second I'm logged in. I understand there is exceptions and games that aren't as linear, but they aren't exactly thriving either.

In my opinion the best MMO to date was Asheron's Call, because it was a seamless world, with tons of lore, unique creatures no one else has used, a monarchy/allegiance/patron system, with XP passup based on followers or (people you actually get rewarded to help) not to mention a questing system you can do, or don't do, that doesn't hold your hand. Elemental Weapons (Carrying a weapon of each element type instead of getting 1 cheesy "THE DECAPITATOR" sword, you would need to hunt for many weapons of each element.

--- I just wish Turbine would kickstart a AC2, or that someone would not sell out and make the garbage they are today.

Did anyone else play Guild Wars 2 and vomit? I mean, What was the point. I logged in and was putting out fires and feeding cattle, and had access to everything in the game except skills at level 1? For what, some zergy super choppy lame PvP siege crap? I have a awesome rig, and it still ran like crap. That's todays latest and greatest?

Ugh.

Am I just getting too old for it, or is there no such thing as a solid MMO anymore.

Well 1) All of the 4 games you mentioned in your first paragraph are still running. So you can still play the games that you liked.

2) Turbine just reopened AC2 so I think you mean kickstart an AC3.

The thing that always amazes me is people will say "Why doesn't Turbine make an AC3, I loved AC1 so much!!" Well AC1 is still there (and so is AC2 now) so you can still play them. If your response is "Well the graphics/UI are old", then gameplay isn't what you're actually after so you can't really complain about games not having quality gameplay.

Personally I haven't like a new MMO in at least 6 years. But that is the very reason I still play the old ones and that is why many other do too.

So the best thing I can suggest to you is go play those older MMOs you loved. You will get the experience you are looking for and it sends a message to the new MMOs that they're doing it wrong. If everyone keeps buying every new MMO so that the companies keep selling millions of copies out the gate, the companies will keep making new MMOs in the same way. If everyone goes back and subs to the old MMOs and don't buy the new ones, it will let companies know they have to change their approach.

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"This may come as a surprise, but despite your earlier beliefs, you are not the center of the world. These games are not made for you, specifically. They never were. So do us a solid and cut the victim routine"

- I guess that's why MMORPG's are thriving and all the latest releases aren't being flamed into the grown. Kinda hard to bash me for being the center of the world, when each big release is met with disappointment.

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Well 1) All of the 4 games you mentioned in your first paragraph are still running. So you can still play the games that you liked.

2) Turbine just reopened AC2 so I think you mean kickstart an AC3.

The thing that always amazes me is people will say "Why doesn't Turbine make an AC3, I loved AC1 so much!!" Well AC1 is still there (and so is AC2 now) so you can still play them. If your response is "Well the graphics/UI are old", then gameplay isn't what you're actually after so you can't really complain about games not having quality gameplay.

Personally I haven't like a new MMO in at least 6 years. But that is the very reason I still play the old ones and that is why many other do too.

So the best thing I can suggest to you is go play those older MMOs you loved. You will get the experience you are looking for and it sends a message to the new MMOs that they're doing it wrong. If everyone keeps buying every new MMO so that the companies keep selling millions of copies out the gate, the companies will keep making new MMOs in the same way. If everyone goes back and subs to the old MMOs and don't buy the new ones, it will let companies know they have to change their approach.

----

1) was not aware AC2 was reopened, that might be fun.

2) Yes I meant AC3.

3) I've come back to AC several times most recently 3 months ago, including have tried to get people to come back, the gameplay itself is fine, and the UI/Graphics don't bother me. The dead population does. If 500-1000 people were still online and at the keyboard daily. I would play AC gladly. They aren't. I already have 275 chars, augs, etc, its not the same without PEOPLE, AC is no longer an MMO, its a ORPG.

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When I was in junior high I was playing games like The Realm, Asheron's Call, Dark Age of Camelot, Everquest, Well of Souls, Independent side scrollers, Runescape, etc.

What I remember about thoughts games in a nostalgic way was, them being games MADE for gamers. That were all unique, and innovative.

What I can't wrap my head around is, have I gotten old and spoiled, lost my love of them. Or have they all become games NOT for gamers, for the casual fan, and a bunch of studio juggernauts trying to make box sales, setting records Diablo III style, but presenting some of the most disappointing end game/content and breaking promises like a mother in a trailer park.

See, I feel like back in the day, games did have integrity, they were trying to make the best games they possibly could, and I'm not sure what happened.

I've bought them all, Tera, Guild Wars 2, Diablo III.

The only games I've thought were pretty good in the past 2-3 years are League of Legends and Path of Exile. If I had to pick ANY MMORPG I think is decent in the past few years I'd say Rift is a decent game, but even that didn't keep my interest for too long.

I played World of Warcraft like many of you, however WoW was never my beginning, or my end, and I feel like it did hurt the industry,

WoW was the McDonalds to our smaller family restaurants, there were more about quality and choice, more divided in style. Now every gamer is some obese dollar menu hype lover.

I don't see any games coming out in 2013 that even intrigue me. I don't see games pushing boundaries or trying to make games more immersive, or more involved community wise, I see a bunch of console like games, that are more linear that a quarter mile race track, trying to force me to do what they want every second I'm logged in. I understand there is exceptions and games that aren't as linear, but they aren't exactly thriving either.

In my opinion the best MMO to date was Asheron's Call, because it was a seamless world, with tons of lore, unique creatures no one else has used, a monarchy/allegiance/patron system, with XP passup based on followers or (people you actually get rewarded to help) not to mention a questing system you can do, or don't do, that doesn't hold your hand. Elemental Weapons (Carrying a weapon of each element type instead of getting 1 cheesy "THE DECAPITATOR" sword, you would need to hunt for many weapons of each element.

--- I just wish Turbine would kickstart a AC2, or that someone would not sell out and make the garbage they are today.

Did anyone else play Guild Wars 2 and vomit? I mean, What was the point. I logged in and was putting out fires and feeding cattle, and had access to everything in the game except skills at level 1? For what, some zergy super choppy lame PvP siege crap? I have a awesome rig, and it still ran like crap. That's todays latest and greatest?

Ugh.

Am I just getting too old for it, or is there no such thing as a solid MMO anymore.

Well 1) All of the 4 games you mentioned in your first paragraph are still running. So you can still play the games that you liked.

2) Turbine just reopened AC2 so I think you mean kickstart an AC3.

The thing that always amazes me is people will say "Why doesn't Turbine make an AC3, I loved AC1 so much!!" Well AC1 is still there (and so is AC2 now) so you can still play them. If your response is "Well the graphics/UI are old", then gameplay isn't what you're actually after so you can't really complain about games not having quality gameplay.

Personally I haven't like a new MMO in at least 6 years. But that is the very reason I still play the old ones and that is why many other do too.

So the best thing I can suggest to you is go play those older MMOs you loved. You will get the experience you are looking for and it sends a message to the new MMOs that they're doing it wrong. If everyone keeps buying every new MMO so that the companies keep selling millions of copies out the gate, the companies will keep making new MMOs in the same way. If everyone goes back and subs to the old MMOs and don't buy the new ones, it will let companies know they have to change their approach.

So if gamers kept playing the old ones and stopped buying the new ones, companies would start making new ones like the old ones... Makes sense to a degree.

(The only problem, gamers have such a wide variety of taste that getting gamers to do something is like herding cats)

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And that there is exactly the problem of the later generations of MMO in terms of why they are shallow and don't last.

Once upon a time, mmos was designed to be perpetual and be-all end-all of gaming in mind, like that of Ulitma Online, Everquest and pre-NGE SWG.

Nowadays mmos are designed to be a quick money grab in a lot of cases - and WoW's introduction, and subsequent games continuation of the "Total Themepark" ideology somewhat contributed to this (it is much easier to grab money through a themepark setup as it is immediately accessible to new players and also that it ends, most importantly. Sandbox doesn't end and it doesn't provide anything if players don't spend time to "live the game")

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Originally posted by Spector88

"This may come as a surprise, but despite your earlier beliefs, you are not the center of the world. These games are not made for you, specifically. They never were. So do us a solid and cut the victim routine"

- I guess that's why MMORPG's are thriving and all the latest releases aren't being flamed into the grown. Kinda hard to bash me for being the center of the world, when each big release is met with disappointment.

MMORPG's are thriving, and the industry has done nothing but show signs of growth. In 2010, the global MMO market was worth $6 billion. I imagine it has only gone up since then. Your argument is baseless and nothing more than an overemotional response to your own personal problems with the genre as it currently is.