Two threads by moi means it's catchup time. Hell, it's the quickest way to 1500, isn't it? This thread is about Canada. I know that most of you probably think that Canada is freaky because they still are harping about the screwjob and they cheer folks we don't. Truth is, I'm glad they are. There are rational reasons why, folks.

The screwjob chants I understand, actually. You see, the reasoning behind it is rather harsh with Bret going to WCW soon after SurSer. Just doing it in that fashion with the sharpshooter without Bret tapping out is harsh. In explaining why, the reasons I read from Vince are rather vague. Gotta go with Bret on this one. Though I think he could have just vacated the title himself, then again, I don't know the whole story. The Canadians just want a definitive ending and answer. They're like me when I watched the so called "Love Triangle" thing with Steph. Let's see some real closure! Hell, I just agree with them booing Shawn, then again, I think his character is a bit of a pissant (my grudge goes back to '96).

Cheering their own. Duh, what the hell is wrong with that? Canadians are very passionate when their fellow countrymen or women do well. Sylvan Grenier got some real love on Monday, and well, who am I to blame them for that? He's not so bad. I still miss Rene though. And, they adopt a philosophy that we share with others but few in this counrty actually use--cheer who we want, boo who we want. As is common knowledge, I cheer HHH a lot, and he's (is he still) the most hated wrestler on the internet.

The WWE despite saying it's okay to use freedom of expression, still tries to get us to cheer or boo certain people. Look no further than John Cena when he was bad. They tried to cover up how popular he was getting with canned heat. They cover up that freedom with canned heat, which is one of the things I SO hate about Smackdown for a long time. Those of us who do cheer who we want, like me with HHH or even Gail Kim sometimes, I'm not afraid to admit, have to give Canada props for not being afraid.

The candian fans know that in their country, the ratings for WWE are still okay (where here it's down down down), and using that power, they go against the WWE belief system, because they know they can get away with it.

So with that, I tip my hat to Canada, home of not just some of the best wrestlers on the planet past and present, but also (with Japan) some of the best fans. I'll happily wave the maple leaf on July 1st, just for you. Comments are welcome, as always.

After a quarter of a century on this planet, there's three things I know for sure...1)Ain't nothing like a Dirty Pair marathon on New Year's Eve. 2)I'd make a fine Mrs. HHH II. 3) I'd make an acceptable Mrs. Orton. 1400 reasons to luv me!

I can speak on behalf of Toronto fans in particular in saying that part of the reaction is that EVERYONE is an insider. Barring the kids, just about every fan at any TO shows is a subscriber to all these newsletters. The likes and dislikes of the fans are really "inside", for lack of a better term. If Kurt Angle hurts his neck we all wince, whereas much of the American audiences have no idea if it's a worked injury or not. There are a lot of these "smart" crowds in pockets, NY is one of those towns. Philly is definitely another one. Toronto is another. I don't think the Montreal RAW reaction was out of the ordinary whatsoever save for the La Resistance response, which is entirely due to the Quebec flags they waved. If they had still had the France flags, they'd have got booed. The Calgary, Edmonton, and Halifax shows didn't seem peculiar to me whatsoever. Just louder reactions for the Canadians.

For the most part the Canadian fans are ahead of the curve. We liked Austin before it was cool to like him, same goes for Rocky, same goes for Cena. We sorta "get it". Kurt Angle is Mr. USA but I remember so many house shows where he got tons of love. We loved him because he could GO, we didn't care that he was this "great American". I've just always felt that Toronto fans will pretty much no-sell every storyline and just love who we love, where the unimaginative coercion tactic of contemporary WWE storytelling like with Brock or Orton, works more readily on American audiences. Hogan was always treated well up here, heel turns or not, because like most hardcore wrestling towns we have a sense of history that a single storyline won't change. Also, remember Eddy's turn on Tajiri, which was nothing short of attempted sabotage. Toronto was the first crowd after that---and boom, we just went on as if it had never happened.

As far as Bret being screwed, I can see both sides. It's done more out of fun than out of anything else. I don't think anyone is legitimately hurt about it at this point, but damn if it isn't a barrel of monkeys to shout it at Vince, and Earl, and Shawn. If you keep those people out of our towns, I doubt the chants will be heard because who would you chant them at?

When Trish ripped into the French with her "frogs" comment, wasn't that similar to what got Conan O'Brien in trouble, when Triumph the Insult Comic Dog made French cracks? Or is that not as taboo in Montreal as it's been made out to be?

Along with HMD's great post, it seemed like WMXX proved that lots of people (at least in New York) read some sort of insider "sheet." How else can you explain their torture of Brock Lesnar? Or had it been publicly announced that he was leaving? The only place I remember reading that was 411. About halfway through the match, JR begrudgingly said something like, "Certainly a lot of speculation that Lesnar will be leaving..."

I think that HMD is mostly right about Philly, but it might also be that the "insiders" are more vocal in Philly than anything else. Truse me, there are PLENTY of marks in Philly crowds.

I remember back in 2000, going to Unforgiven in Philly. Kurt Angle was already a very popular guy with the Internet crowd, but I felt like the only guy who was cheering for him. I was amazed at how much heat he got, and I was surprised more people weren't into him.

I have always said that Canadian crowds are always the most fun atmosphere for a show. They are mostly smart, but as you guys have said they are also very supportive of Canadian wrestlers. I can't wait for Summerslam because of this fact.

Joe Wilson (looking at Interocitor manual)- Hey, here's something my wife could use in the house...Crow T. Robot- A man?Joe Wilson- An interocitor incorporating an electron sorter.Cal Meechum- Oh, she'd probably gain 20 pounds while it did all the work for her.Tom Servo- Cal, you bitch!

The perfect example (pun fully intended) of Toronto being a bit different was Curt Hennig Vs. Buff Bagwell at the WCW Mayhem pay-per-view. Wisely, we cheered Hennig like he was a huge face, and he got no less than a standing ovation when he lost the match that was supposed to be "his retirement".

Why? Because we chose to remember him as Mr. Perfect, a WWF fave that still hadn't become outdated. I really doubt that Hennig was "supposed" to get that reaction when he lost the match. Of course, they screwed that all up the next night by having him in cahoots with Vince Russo (sigh).

The perfect example (pun fully intended) of Toronto being a bit different was Curt Hennig Vs. Buff Bagwell at the WCW Mayhem pay-per-view. Wisely, we cheered Hennig like he was a huge face, and he got no less than a standing ovation when he lost the match that was supposed to be "his retirement".

Why? Because we chose to remember him as Mr. Perfect, a WWF fave that still hadn't become outdated. I really doubt that Hennig was "supposed" to get that reaction when he lost the match. Of course, they screwed that all up the next night by having him in cahoots with Vince Russo (sigh).

That was the most surreal moment in wrestling I have ever been a part of. A shame WCW didn't take the hint and stay on the crowd after the match - instead quickly cutting away to something else backstage. (My recap sez an interview with Sting...) I will never forget the image of an arena on their feet applauding and chanting "PERFECT, PERFECT!" after the match.

And despite liking the Berg, I had to laugh when Sid got one of the biggest pops of the night while Goldberg picked up more heat than I'd heard for anyone in MONTHS leading up to the show. Damn him for spearing Bret's steel plate! Damn him to hell!

Hey, they like their old school heroes, nothing wrong with that. Personally, WCW can't adlib worth a damn, so that's no surprise. I'm obviously not discounting MSG fans in this thread. It's just I know some Canadian fans, and they go with their gut and not the company, which is basically what I do, even if I get laughed at.

After a quarter of a century on this planet, there's three things I know for sure...1)Ain't nothing like a Dirty Pair marathon on New Year's Eve. 2)I'd make a fine Mrs. HHH II. 3) I'd make an acceptable Mrs. Orton. 1400 reasons to luv me!

So, I'm curious. Your encouragement of Canada venting their shoot rage at Shawn, would you feel the same if they were directing that same rage at another man closely linked to the situation at hand...that being The Game himself? Btw, who embodies despicable characters more than he? And I'm not talking "wow he plays his role well" despicable either, as that's a ship thats sailed about 2 years ago. I honestly fail to find anything entertaining about him...but hey, to each his(her) own regardless.

My problem with the crowd her is obviously not their cheering/jeering whomever they chose...as I'd do that as well. This is clearly pretty distinct, as in this particlar venom is pretty much inspired by real life events they got information from through some dirt sheet..rather than because Shawn's an unworthy performer(I'm sure they wouldn't otherwise hate him as much as you do.)In other words, they're playing the "look how hip and insider I am" game...the edginess of which has sailed away along side HHH's character and T & A. Now they're entitled to that, but I'm as entitled to finding it pretty pathetic...as are others who've voiced so. "You screwed Bret"(yeah, like it was really HIS decision") is a far cry from "I'm just not entertained by you" (or "boo" for short ;)).

You're giving Canadian fans WAY too much credit. The whole "You screwed Bret" has long past the point of sending a message now it's "Hey it's fun chanting this at these guys" at the expense of whatever storyline they are trying to portray. HBK can tap out to Benoit or help him win the tag titles, but all that doesn't matter as the fans feel the need to put themselves over. Earl can't referee any match at all without him being the focus from these fans and therefore pretty much ruining it for the actual wrestlers in the match... And on this Raw I heard a couple of "We Want Bret" chants during matches, I find it annoying & obnoxious now. For a city who claims to have such wrestling knowledge you certainly have no problem taking away from the current product to live in the past. You want Bret so much, stay at home, put in a tape of Canadian Stampede & enjoy. Let 2004 fans enjoy the current product.

For cheering their own, I could accept that but I don't think that necessary makes you "great fans". It's like an American cheering for someone because he's wearing American tights or carrying a flag... If they're cheering them cause they respect what they've done and want to show them some hometown love I could dig that, but cheering them just because they carry a flag around. I could see why it happens, but that doesn't necessary earn bonus points with me.

I think Montreal is very over-rated wrestling town, with the exception of Eugene did they give any abundance of love to any babyface? Toronto is better, as T.O doesn't seem so stuck up on themselves, plus HMD is right T.O gave Angle so much love not matter what. Maritimes is good but then again there's TV done there once every decade it seems. They can't help but be jacked. B.C & Alberta is pretty strong as well... Then again I love seeing UK PPV's because the crowds are great there (Insurrextion 2003, I was just watching). In the States Chicago a very good crowd, MSG is a smart crowd and responds well if you give a good effort. Strangly enough Long Island seems like a crowd won't give any love unless your a top 3 guy.

I think you're right RM, we are all individual, you cheer for who you like no matter who. But I don't think these fans are individuals but more of chanting for Bret for the sake of chanting or cheer for home-grown guys just because... So in closing. Philly ECW chants lot > Canada Bret chants

smark/net attack wienerville advisory stays at BLUE alert - Guarded (With Benoit & Eddie being World & WWE champions you'd expect all's be right but couldn't do it due to Trish/Y2J character switches & whats the deal with JBL PPV main event)- 5/6

Originally posted by phil5329listen here canada, we Rochesterians no-sold eddies heel turn on tajiri when it happened.

crowd "eddie, eddie"

Sorry, we were actually first on that, too. Last year (around this time, actually), Eddie showed up on a SD taping in Toronto, the week after he turned heel on Tajiri. Couldn't tell from the way the crowd was popping for him...

Originally posted by darkmatcherSo, I'm curious. Your encouragement of Canada venting their shoot rage at Shawn, would you feel the same if they were directing that same rage at another man closely linked to the situation at hand...that being The Game himself? Btw, who embodies despicable characters more than he? And I'm not talking "wow he plays his role well" despicable either, as that's a ship thats sailed about 2 years ago. I honestly fail to find anything entertaining about him...but hey, to each his(her) own regardless.

Ah, that IS a good point. But this thing with HHH and me is like this: IF he gets that kind of heat, I'd rest easy knowing that his job at being a bad guy's much easier up north. Seriously, I think it depends on whether he's boring me or not. Hey, I jumped on knowing that a lot of people hate him, but at least he doesn't kid himself about that, like HBK.

Hey, I just hate HBK for stuff before Montreal. In '96, as the WWF champ, he was such a goody-goody with the Baywatch and the Playgirl, and the lame Rat Pack slang. I know because I got some WWF tape from '96 with a segment devoted to Shawn's wonderfulness. I knew he was faking the funk, and he confirmed it when the SOB cost Taker (who was great at this point) the title at Summerslam in '97. Accident, my ass.

Sorry, the last few sentences were mark flashbacks. Anyway, back to today's Mistress. So to answer the HBK-HHH dilemma, I careth not if heat goes either way. It's a personal thing, and personally, I'd rather smoke crack than look at Shawn's.

After a quarter of a century on this planet, there's three things I know for sure...1)Ain't nothing like a Dirty Pair marathon on New Year's Eve. 2)I'd make a fine Mrs. HHH II. 3) I'd make an acceptable Mrs. Orton. 1400 reasons to luv me!

Ugh. I think the notion of chanting "you screwed Bret" being done as "look how inside we are" is wishful thinking for HBK apologists. I think certain crowds know what they like, and Shawn Michaels isn't one of those things. I'm sure if the situation was reversed, you wouldn't expect San Antonio fans to accept Bret because he's real good.

Darkmatcher, you like Shawn. That's fine. No one's saying not to. I still enjoying booing the crap out of him and I always have. He's never been over in Canada. That doesn't mean I don't think he's one of the best performers who has ever been out there, even most Canadian wrestling fans I've spoken to admit that. But there is nothing likeable about Shawn Michaels. There never has been. Girls liked him because he was sexy, and to each her own, but that isn't going to endear him to the fellas, and most people at wrestling shows are fellas. What is sympathetic in the least about Shawn Michaels the character? He's always had this problem. Good-looking (again, generally speaking), athletically gifted, a primadonna---these are his qualities. That's why he's best used as a heel and has never been a long-term draw as a face.

When he comes up here he gets booed for being Shawn Michaels, not for "montreal". He's not likeable. Vince McMahon gets large amounts of cheers (sometimes) in Canada. He'll still get the chant, but there you go, he's not hated. It seems fairly obvious to me that your love for HBK makes you take it personally when others don't share it, but a lot of people dislike(d) Shawn Michaels.

And Bigred, Shawn was the special guest ref at SS '97, and when Bret brought a chair into the ring Shawn saw it. He demanded to know if Bret used it, and Bret spat in his face, so Shawn reared back and swung it but Bret ducked and Taker got nailed. Bret covered 'Taker and, because Shawn had sworn to be fair and not show favouritism he had to count. Now THAT was some booking.

Originally posted by bigredmachine29I know this is off topic, but Ringmistress, you said Shawn cost taker the title at summerslam '97, and something about an accident. What happened exactly?

From my recollection, Bret and Taker wrestled for the WWF Title, Shawn was the special referee, and he "accidentally" hit taker, costing him the title. I was still a heavy mark then, so like I said I took that to heart, since Taker was doing really good in '97.

After a quarter of a century on this planet, there's three things I know for sure...1)Ain't nothing like a Dirty Pair marathon on New Year's Eve. 2)I'd make a fine Mrs. HHH II. 3) I'd make an acceptable Mrs. Orton. 1400 reasons to luv me!