Its all well and fine to be a purist, but when we all live in the real world, where there is a shortage of very excellent programmers willing and able to write excellent freeware applications for nothing.

And when a minor threat like the ask toolbar is willing to subsidize these excellent programmer who then subsequently are able to keep improving their applications, I will happily take the excellent software and discard the ask toolbar.

My real world alternative is to go back to the bloatware security hole adobe acrobat is and use an inferior firewall.

Its all well and fine to be a purist, but when we all live in the real world, where there is a shortage of very excellent programmers willing and able to write excellent freeware applications for nothing.

And when a minor threat like the ask toolbar is willing to subsidize these excellent programmer who then subsequently are able to keep improving their applications, I will happily take the excellent software and discard the ask toolbar.

That's a very old argument. The head of Simtel used the exact same words to me back in 99 when we were debating the merits of spyware/adware.

Fortunately, NONE of the products in question back then still exist. It seems that folk decided to take a stand against the scum of this world and those who sold out their users.

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My real world alternative is to go back to the bloatware security hole adobe acrobat is and use an inferior firewall.

That comment seems very weak(sad really) to me even if it were true. Do you really think that Comodo is the only good firewall around? Do you really think no one else is deving PDF products?

The question still remains;

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There are plenty of good products around. So why would anyone wish to support a product that has sold out it's users by the means of subjecting it's users to sleazy marketing practices?

The truth is, I've heard all the low-life excuses a thousand times over. They have never made much of an impact on public opinion in the past and I doubt that any of this feeble attempt will either. I personally will always think that scum should be treated as such.

Purist? That's cool. I've been referred to as much worse and it is much more preferable to being called a scum-peddler._________________-

Osage: I appreciate what you're saying but as far as I'm concerned the presumption of consent is absolutely wrong, and should be stamped upon before it spreads further. If that means some other minor inconvenience for myself I'm perfectly williing to accept that. All they have to do is ask first (and accept my answer) and I'll be content.

To take an extreme example, if I take a woman out for a drink I cannot simply presume consent to go any further. If I did I doubt anyone would defend my actions by saying 'at least it keeps those nice policemen in work'.

In the 'real world' we always have to keep an eye on the thin end of the wedge._________________Inperfect.

I note that Mikey makes his part of point by saying, " Purist? That's cool. I've been referred to as much worse and it is much more preferable to being called a scum-peddler."

Which somewhat implies that in making a point, I have some evil agenda and a must have need to personally insult anyone with a differing point a view.

On the contrary, I respect the viewpoint you advocate and agree that there is something unethical about not disclosing in advance that some adware or crapware is included in the package.

But I have long time used both the Foxit reader and have been somewhat of a plankholder of the comodo3 firewall. And watched as the comodo3 programming team has swiftly, successfully, and steadily tried to improve their product. The point being, both the foxit reader and the comodo3 firewall did not initially include the ask toolbar, and as freeware applications, I can maybe understand that both programming teams needed the revenue the ask tool bar folks provided to continue program development.

I am just simply pointing out, I am holding my nose at the unethics of it all, and find it very easy to have the best of both worlds by removing the ask toolbar. I may choose to later replace the foxit reader with another freeware alternative, but given the excellence
of the comodo3 firewall, and the huge effort it would take to train a likely inferior firewall, removing the ask toolbar is what I feel is a better option.

Meanwhile, I can hope that both comodo and foxit respond to the public outrage, and remove the ask toolbar.

As it is, my overall defense against malware seems to be working perfectly, has stood the test of time, and hence I am reluctant to change things.