I was looking at the Study Groups and it semms the last started on 2007, maybe we can start a new group. I'm very interested in Greek Poetry, for examen. Also Latin can be, why don't we start the reading of a latin text? Thanks.

I was looking at the Study Groups and it semms the last started on 2007, maybe we can start a new group. I'm very interested in Greek Poetry, for examen. Also Latin can be, why don't we start the reading of a latin text? Thanks.

Which text are you wanting to start? I want to start up Homeric Greek. Are you looking at something else?

I'll make it a point to check back in here at least daily to see if we get some kind of feedback. To contact me personally, send me a PM here on the forum or send an e-mail to jaihare@jhronline.com. I'm really looking forward to this. If it's just you and me (Ivan), we can start whenever you're ready. I've started already and have nearly completed the first-declension sections (both in reading the bits on morphology and syntax as assigned and also in the translations). Do you already have some experience with Greek study?

The way this usually works is that someone (or several someones) are nominally in charge of the group — that person is responsible for the schedule, etc. In the past we've also had "guides" — people who are already comfortable with Homer and who correct work. In general, to have only one person in charge or only one guide doesn't work very well — these groups usually take about a year and a half to complete, and that's a long commitment. Having several people involved is safer.

We used to use web-based software for work submissions and correcting, along with an email mailing list, but the author of that hasn't been to Textkit for some time. I can see if he's still around and prepared to support the software.

I'll also get to work on creating a mailing list for this.

I should mention that Jeff is working hard behind the scenes preparing a new version of the entire Textkit site, based on Drupal (it's further along than the version he demoed some time ago). It may be we can work that tool into this usefully.

I'm willing to act as a guide. If someone else wants to join me, that'd be nice.

Thanks, annis, for volunteering to be a guide! Self-nomination, accepted.

I spoke with Iván by e-mail today, and I think we're both really motivated and interested in getting this started. I think we'll wait a little while for at least a couple more people to join us. If you know anyone else who is interested in studying through this textbook or in joining you in guiding us, would you invite them aboard?

As per collations, I have the Perl collation software that is used on both GreekStudy and LatinStudy on the nxport.com server. (I'll send an invitation to GreekStudy tonight to see if we can get a bit of interest there.) I've got the software installed and already use it for a Hebrew study group that I guide.

I would like to join the group, but I'm afraid real life might get in the way. (Let's just say the sour economy has been making my life less certain recently.)

But if you guys do this, especially with William as a guide, could you save your English-to-Greek translations, after chapter 13? Nobody else seems to have these available. Maybe you could share your answers with the whoever runs greekgeek.org? Hopefully he would put them on his site, along with the Greek-to-English translations he already has available.

I, Lex Llama, super genius, will one day rule this planet! And then you'll rue the day you messed with me, you damned dirty apes!

Lex wrote:I would like to join the group, but I'm afraid real life might get in the way. (Let's just say the sour economy has been making my life less certain recently.)

But if you guys do this, especially with William as a guide, could you save your English-to-Greek translations, after chapter 13? Nobody else seems to have these available. Maybe you could share your answers with the whoever runs greekgeek.org? Hopefully he would put them on his site, along with the Greek-to-English translations he already has available.

How 'bout you ask us when we get to that point? Right now, I just hope this will take off. I'm a little nervous about the study myself, not having nearly enough experience to pull this off, but quite hoping for a boost in confidence!

annis wrote:We used to use web-based software for work submissions and correcting, along with an email mailing list, but the author of that hasn't been to Textkit for some time. I can see if he's still around and prepared to support the software.

There is still one person who occasionally posts to Pharr-C using the GreekGeek software. It still is on-line but he has to enter the new members I guess.

I'd really appreciate it if someone else would put the schedule together. I'm not too good at that kind of thing. I've had issues with that in the past. What will we be doing? A lesson a week? How many lessons are in this book? Would the lesson include translations of the lines of the poem?

Then you can browse previous study groups. Sometimes it's a little awkward to find answers, but if you, for example, choose the "pharr-d at textkit.com" study group, filter by "author" and choose "edonnelly" as the author, then you can enter the paragraph number (not the chapter number) for "lessonid" from exercises in Pharr to see all of my translations for a particular lesson. e.g., enter "84" and you will get all of my English->Greek translations for Lesson 15 (which happens to contain paragraph 84).

You can also choose to look by lesson instead. Choose Filter by "Lessonid.line" and enter "84.1" That will show you the different translations from the different members of the group for the first sentence of section 84. You can enter "84.2" etc. to see the others for that lesson.

It's a little awkward if you haven't used it before, but once I got into using that site I found it to be wonderful. In fact, you will be able to see not only the members' translations, but also the corrections by the group's guide. Not everyone made it all the way through, but I know that I have translations for every exercise in the book, so you could at least start there if you are looking for something (while mine may not be that great, they should still be helpful because our wonderful guide will have made corrections).

Just wondering how we're doing on the mailing list. If necessary, I can use my domain to host a non-archived mailing list. Or, we can create a Yahoo group specifically for the purpose of archiving. I don't know which way people normally do this on this site. Could you just let me know what's up on that end?

As far as the collation, I suggest we use the following abbreviations:

EG > English-to-Greek TranslationGE > Greek-to-English Translation

This means, the collation will have the form of:

# Jason Hare# Lesson III (§11 & §12)# Greek-to-English

GE 1 JH Good and bad plans.GE 2 JH Who has a good plan?κτλ.

# English-to-Greek

EG 1 JH βουλάων καλάων καὶ κακάων.EG 2 JH βουλῇ καλῇκτλ.

END

What do you think?

Last edited by jaihare on Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I've never used a mail listing , hehehehehehe, may we can use google docs to upload the greek texts and write comments, each one can use different colors, etc., does anybody know how the old groups here worked?

Normally, you send your work to someone who volunteers to collate it. You submit it in an agreed-to format. I suggested that we use GE for "Greek to English" and EG for "English to Greek." The software (developed by Kurt Lougheed) works so that you first put the section marker (either EG or GE, in this case), then the exercise number and then your initials. There are more details on this that I can get for you. I have volunteered to do the collating.

Basically, what this means is that for each lesson, you will send me a Unicode e-mail with your contribution in two sections, the Greek-to-English section and the English-to-Greek section. I will collate them with the software and send them out to everyone on the mailing list (which may or may not be archived, depending on how we decide to do it). Does this make sense? It's generally how things are done with this type of study.

The only problem is when it comes to poetry analyzing. How do we mark long and short syllables? How do we analyze meter and check with each other? Annis, have you done this type of thing before?

Adelheid wrote:I have guided the Pharr-D group (which didn't last that long)

!! You got at least two of us all the way to the end. It's true that once you get really far along (especially once you pass the point where there are no more G->E exercises) you rely a lot less on the guide.

I will say it looks like this group is going to have two fantastic guides, so I really hope the participants stick with this. By far and away the toughest part is the beginning (first 20 lessons or so). Good luck to all!

jaihare wrote:Normally, you send your work to someone who volunteers to collate it. You submit it in an agreed-to format. I suggested that we use GE for "Greek to English" and EG for "English to Greek." The software (developed by Kurt Lougheed)

We've never used that software. The very first lists had people just email stuff to the mailing list, and subsequent groups used Paul's fantastic web-based system, which I think we should use for this group, too (which we'll call pharr-e, the 5th Pharr group for Textkit). It takes a little bit of tinkering with to get the hang of, but once you've got it the advantages become apparent.

I have requested the mailing list. I would ask that we still hold off at least a week before starting the group, perhaps a few more days than that, so we can get the word out and maybe attract a few more people.

annis wrote:We've never used that software. The very first lists had people just email stuff to the mailing list, and subsequent groups used Paul's fantastic web-based system, which I think we should use for this group, too (which we'll call pharr-e, the 5th Pharr group for Textkit). It takes a little bit of tinkering with to get the hang of, but once you've got it the advantages become apparent.

I have requested the mailing list. I would ask that we still hold off at least a week before starting the group, perhaps a few more days than that, so we can get the word out and maybe attract a few more people.

That software is used both on LatinStudy and on GreekStudy, and it's really easy to use. Could you show us the results of the software you're talking about? Is it at all intuitive? I'd like to at least look it over and see how it works and such.

jaihare wrote:That software is used both on LatinStudy and on GreekStudy, and it's really easy to use. Could you show us the results of the software you're talking about? Is it at all intuitive? I'd like to at least look it over and see how it works and such.

edonnelly wrote:I will say it looks like this group is going to have two fantastic guides, ......

I agree. I speak from experience. William Annis was one of the three guides when I was a participant in Pharr-a. Adelheid started guiding Pharr-d when I was one of the guides of Pharr-c. -d overtook -c so I often logged into -d as guest to make use of her comments when I ran into a bit of trouble so, without her knowledge, she kind of was my guide as well.The discouraging thing as guide is drop-outs. Not a few drop-outs ,that is inevitable, but drop-outs to the extent that kill the group.Both these guides have seen a group to completion. Here's hoping Pharr-e will be successful as well.

By the way, I am still in school and it is tough. I basically just wanted to learn a little Greek because im taking it next year and I want to get a jump start .. So I might not be able to go as fast as you guys, is it ok if I still join?