Oh what a night…

I went to bed last night thinking that I’d be able to come up with some poignant way to capture the Vin Scully/John Wooden event last night and woke up no more able than the night before. Jon Weisman, on the other hand, recapped it great and shares many thoughts, nearly all of which I agree wholeheartedly, so rather than try and re-write it, I’ll just direct you there.

It’s been far too long since the Dodgers scored…what more can be said on that front? Here’s the group that will try to push some runs across the board this afternoon in the Motor City.

Pierre, LF

DeWitt, 3B

Kent, 2B

Loney, 1B

Martin, C

Ethier, RF

Kemp, CF

Young, DH

Berroa, SS

Penny, P

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With the exception of Pierre in his usual spot, not a bad lineup – DY as DH should hopefully be a good move, and I am all for giving Ethier a chance in the 6 spot. He definitely needed the change, and I think it will be a good one for him. He might prove to be more productive in that spot. I still would like to see Matt in the 3rd slot, but I am just happy he made the move he did with DeWitt.
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GO DODGER BLUE!!!

last night, as josh said, was beyond words. it was definitely a great and memorable night. i will never forget it. wooden and scully were both amazing (as always) and very witty. and they weren’t afraid to put tj simers in his place!

as far as the lineup goes, i agree with all of you, that with the exception of pierre it is as good as can be. let’s push across some runs and get a win! go blue!! =)

Why does Joe always feel having Pierre lead off is the way to go? Doesn’t he realize we tried that last year and finished 4th. It’s not like we’re winning with him leading off. I guess as long as Frank makes money they don’t really care about winning, or at least it seems that way.

Has speed become so important in the leadoff spot in the order that it blinds a manager into submission of that precept regardless of the fact that said speed is reliant upon the ability of a leadoff batter to get on base in the first place? Is Joe truly leading the cart before the beaten dead horse at the top of the lineup? Is the forest so freaking thick that Joe clearly cannot see the trees right before his face???

Give up on the speed and put baserunner on base!! In order to score one MUST have RUNNERS ON BASE!!

kssparkuhl@msn I have no real problem with Joe changing the line up around after all it’s not like they’re setting the world on fire. The problem I do have is where he should change it and doesn’t, the lead off spot. You’re right on the money about speed only helping if you get on base to begin with. Wouldn’t it be nice to have someone in that spot that not only got on base more , but also could maybe hit a home run or two, and perhaps even , dare I say it, drive in a run once in a blue moon.

.282 /.343 /.319 /.663 to .240 /.278 /.402 /.680 until those two are taken out of the lineup and benched then I know that the dodgers don’t care about winning. And what is worse I think they only hope to win this year and do not care about next year and building for the future. I think right now they care more about Jones and Nomar coming back and the hopes that Kent will get things going more so than giving young players a chance to hit since others and see if they can make an impact on an offense and to see if LaRoache and DY can be regular starters in 2009.

You know Josh I would ask Joe and Ned why it is so important to have two guys shitting the bed night after night at the top of the lineup.

The only time I ever want to hear from Ned whether on this blog or anywhere else is when he resigns, period. Any other statement coming from Ned is either an attempt to rose color color something in the way of a PR position, or it is a blatant lie. The guy is the worst excuse ever seen as a GM.

Pitching is the most important thing but what good is it without an offense to support it.
Unless we are facing the best crop of pitchers around, this team has no concept of how to score runs.
When it comes to the point that RISP becomes a joke, something has to change.
With such a young team we can chalk it up as a learning experence but let’s hope they are learning the right way.
Maybe we should change the hitting coach again or maybe coach by committee.
We should send somebody down to the minors to coach them better and get them ready to face major league pitching.
THAT SAID LET’S GO DODGERS!

again Karros is saying how they are just trying to go up and hit it, no approach. But they are 24 and not magically 28. It is what it is they are learning. If they were surrounded by talented veterans who could still play and put upp numbers things would be better and they would be ovrlooked. Instead our GM continues o use the excuse of youth. Like Karros never learned. As he says it Kent is hitting into a double play. Its a double standard.

I wish Martin would be batting 3rd and Kent 5th. I know Kent will never bat lower than 4th since his .239 AVG is so clutch, but would he really do any worse batting 5th in this line-up?
.227 RSIP; .198 w/ runners; .278 ob% – is that really what we need in our 4th or 3rd spot?
Martin is .286 RISP; .330 w/ runners; .416 ob%
I just wish our best hitter would get the most at bats.

btw, did everyone else hear them say that furcal is shut down from all baseball activity because he’s recovering from a bulging disk and he won’t be back until after the all-star break? i hadn’t heard that diagnosis until today, even though i knew he was shut down and out until the break..

Kemp is out two games and the Dodgers don’t score. Kemp returns and the Dodgers score his first time up.
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Coincidence?
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I should add that we should all boycott ilegal interleague-play. It’s a blatant violation of Rule 6.10 and other of the Rules of Baseball,not to mention the laws of God and Morality. It is pure evil, and is ruining the game.

I had heard about the bulging disk in Furcal’s back and not being back until, at least, after the All-Star Break. In light of management’s lack of forthrightness on this situation, it would not surprise me if we’ve seen the last of him for this year.

OMG, what kind of poll is that? Which PVL will return from the DL first, Nomore, Shi*, the fat Cow, head-case, or bulgy disk?
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How about this for a poll?
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When will Ned be fired?
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.Before the All-Star Break
.Between the All-Star Break and the trading deadline
.Between the trading deadline and end of regular season
.Between end of regular season and end of World Series
.Between end of World Series and Thanksgiving

I hope this isn’t the occasional bunch of runs the Dodgers score every couple of days, then go scoreless for while.
And Penny better not give them back.
It seems the good pitching stops often when the scoring starts.

Bear, you are way ahead of me. I was just going to vote for prior to the All-Star break. But you are right. It needs to be done before he gets a stupid idea and ruins the core team that will take us to the WS in 2010-2014.

pierreseastmeetswest–I would have thought you liked the old school look. But don’t worry, Jeff Kent is not wearing his socks up.
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I think that they should not go with the blue with white letters, even to change their luck. Too many mix and match uniforms in baseball today–there should be a home jersey and a road jersey (and, in my opinion, the road jersey should in most cases simply be the smae design as the home jersey but gray, except for a very small number of teams who have classic road jerseys). The Dodgers have classic home jerseys (the same since 1938, I think, but you can confirm pierreseastmeetswest), and should not alter them.

I was thinking about saying the Dodgers wouldn’t have the lead coming out of the 4th inning, but didn’t want to be a downer….. buuuut I guess I can say it now! Brad Penny’s option is a TEAM option right? Please say it is…

That’s the way I wore my uniform, but I guess we didn’t know better in those days, leekfink
I like the way they ware them today.
Once in a while the blue with the white looks good.
I also think it’s tough looking(might scare pitchers)LOL.

Well another lousy start for Penny, it would happen when we’re scoring.

Okay, way to go Joe! Wait until Penny gets shelled by two home runs and a triple before you replace him. And that’s because you still think he’s your fuc*ing ace! And then you bring in Doctor Proctor to put out the fire on a day when the offense is actually scoring runs? (Did you notice that I write in run-on sentences when I’m giving my most passionate constructive feedback?)

Boblee, we could email you. But why be in such a hurry? At this rate, it’s going to be a while. Give us your address, and we’ll send you a snail mail. No sense in rushing back until Frank has shed Ned, Joe, Sweeney, Penny, Lowe, Nomore, Jones, Furcal, Kent, Pierre, Bennett. Did I forget someone? I’m sure there are plenty more. Oh, yeah, don’t forget Conte.

Somebody tell me what Honeycutt does besides an occasional TV interview and make telephone calls between the dugout and the bulpen. Any one of us could do that, but fix a veteran pitcher with a significant problem? Nah.

Lighning and thunder along with the rain in Brooklyn as the Dodgers fail again in Detroit.
The Dodgers biggest problem may be that after all these years they use up all the big apple juice that was in them.
Non the less, they are still my team.
COM ‘ON YOU STILL GOT A FAN IN BROOKLYN.

I think Honeycutt is doing a heck of a lot better job than Easley. The “Hit Man” , what we need is a “Score Man”.
When the heck is he going to take Proctor out and leave him out. We do a lot better without him.
The bad thing about this is– we give up runs when we are findly able to score some.
It’s like two teams in one and the pitchers don’t like the hitters.

Does anyone else on here find yourself borderline rooting for the other team? It’s almost to the point that you’re so not surprised at how bad we are that you just expect to see runs scored on us and us not scoring at all… and when we do score… we get our hearts ripped out… This season sucks…. I don’t even know what to say anymore!!

A 6.14 era out of the pen Joe is not a good thing….it is time for Proctor to go and bring up Meloan….I will never give up rooting for the Dodgers but this is getting very tiresome….Frank you have to make a move to spark this team….If it means Ned has to be the scapegoat…Well, OK we will support you through this tough time. It will only hurt for a second i promise. It will be like getting a shot, a momentary pinch then no pain….

P I E R R E highest BA with runners in scoring position.
I know nobody heard that, so I thought I’d log it in.
I think Ned should go but the above statement is one vote for him to stay.
Now the Proctor deal will be a vote against that.

I credit the the team that WALKS.
You have to give credit to the batter when he walks.
I think one of the Dodgers’ biggest problems is that they lack the ability to walk.
That’s the vets and the kids.
Kent is the worst at getting a walk, hardly ever walks.
Don’t take my word or disagree, just watch.
Although I hope this all changes as soon as possible.

I agree with you pierre, I just think that it is especially important for a real leadoff hitter to get on, whether a walk, infield hit, or a good old hit to the outfield. Juan does none of that, and that’s why nobody cares about his speed if he never gets to use it on the basepaths.

I agree dodger, but it is imperative to have that quality in a leadoff hitter, and unfortunately we don’t. The lineup is pretty bad right now, but it all starts with the top, and I don’t think it is a coincidence that since Furcal is out we are pretty awful.

The Dodgers don’t seem to be able to take close pitches, that is a pitch that is close to the strike zone, but not a strike.
That’s how the Mets & the Pards beat up on Kuroda.
When they start learning that, they will begin to win on a consistant basis.
This is a team problem.
It’s not a vet vs kids problem.
Who’s to blame?
Everybody seems to know on this blog, but for the life of me, with 60+ years of watching this team I don’t.

Furcal is definately better for this team, it doesn’t take a genious to figure that out.
But JP takes a lot of criticism he really doesn’t deserve.
I think this is all a vandette that you guys have going, when he definately isn’t the reason this team is losing.
NO WAY.

It’s true the vets on this team aren’t what they use to be.
This year, especially Kent & Sweeney, are really showing some wear & tear.
But they are just a part of the problem.
The kids are great, I love them, but they are still learning this game.
Especially when it comes to when they are at the plate.
They are our future. They WILL IMPROVE.

PierreEW, i for one have been a Pierre sympathizer, but we should not have to put up with the failings of a GM. This is not a swipe at Pierre, rather an indictment on the GM, who admittedly panicked last year because of the JD Drew opt out. Yes, I agree alot of people on the blog take personal shots at Pierre and Torre. The fans on here are very emotional about the Dodgers. It is obvious by the moves that Ned have made, he is not the GM for the job and the players, Pierre in particular is taking the brunt of the heat. I have a very good friend who coaches in the Minors with the Dodgers and Pierre is a great guy and works his a… off, but he is not what we needed. Ned Panicked!!!

Frank, I just wish I had a boss as understanding as you.

1.Schmidt 48 mil 2 wins is it? I hate to break the news but he is not going to come back and if he does it will not go well…sorry call me a pessimist, I prefer realist.
2. A Jones 38 mil….167 avg..there is still hope, but why were we so fixated on him. If he had anything left why would Atlanta not offer him something. They are pretty good at talent evaluation.
3. Loiaza…what cost 10 mil for 2 wins and no longer…I am not a scout but I did sleep at a holiday inn express once…and I knew Loiaza was history.
4. Traded a promising 20 year old arm for a FA to be middle reliever (jackson for Baez)
5. Resigned an injury proned Nomar to a 20 mil contract…how has that worked out?
6. Frank, I ask, what trade has he made other than the Ethier trade has worked out. He learned from Sabean who constantly overspent and traded for over the hill vets. Bad pedigree!!!

JPs criticism is well deserved, in fact it’s hardly enough. He’s a pinch runner at best, and drags this team down in the lead off spot. Left field is a power position, and that’s only one of the things JP lacks.

Josh, when can we get some updates on the Dodgers draft picks. I check other team sites and it lists who has been signed so far…Can you get Dejon (great guy) and or Logan to give us an update or take ?s sometime.

Pierre may be a great guy, and a hard worker, but he just doesn’t have the talent to play left field and lead off everyday. It’s true it’s not totally his fault, he is what he is, but he was never a good fit here and now he’s taking playing time away from better players in DY and Andre. I agree it’s Ned’s fault for panicking when Drew left. Even then we would have been much better off if Ned gave Drew those 5 years rather than Pierre, and I’m not a big Drew fan either.

I don’t know whats up with Penny. If he’s injured he needs to go on the DL. If he is just $ucking than he deserves to lose his spot in the rotation when Schmidt comes off the DL because right now I am sick of his wildness in the zone. Sit Pierre everyday and let DY play. If we don’t see significant improvement by the trade deadline we should definatley be sellers because this team isn’t going anywhere the way they’re playing right now and I’m SICK OF IT!!!

Sorry for all the pessimism but this team isn’t going anywhere with Pierre playing every day and the proctometer coming in out of the pen. That Betemit for Proctometer trade was idiotic. Proctometer $ucks and we could use Wilson’s power at short right now. FIRE NED NOW!

Stellar 0 for 5 performance by Juan Pierre. Is he single-handedly the reason we’re losing – No, but he’s not helping either. I believe since Pierre has been lead-off we’re 14-23 or so. 37 games JoJo – do you see a trend?? DY on the otherhand was 3 for 4.

This team may lack poise, it may lack experience, it may lack patience at the plate (though the numbers don’t bear that out vs. the PVLs), but what it lacks most of all is a manager. No team that I’ve ever seen with this much young talent – not the Florida teams of the past, not the Rox or Snakes, and not Tampa Bay of this season, have the struggles this team has day in and day out. Someone up top mentioned a droll lackluster manager like Little and Torre just don’t have the fire to ignite the wick with these guys. I agree. This year’s history. Can Ned and JoJo now, and use the rest of the year to get rid of PVLs for prospects, hire a guy like Yeager, play the kids for experience and evaluation the rest of the year, and start fresh in 2009.

Dodgers certainly are in a funk huh? I stand by what I said last night. If Ned could somehow find his GM legs and move Pierre and Kent SOON to real contenders, Dodgers could fully commit to the youth movement, with Young (LF) and LaRoche (2B), and see where the chips fall come season’s end. More important than getting LaRoche and Young into the line-up, the move would send a CLEAR message that the page has been turned and it’s now the kids’ time. I, for one, believe they’d respond with fight and fire.

Eric – went back and found a few more tunes in April, but seems I was the only one writing them:

Simply Irresponsible April 12 6:43 am
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Stuck In Lodi Again April 16 5:42 pm
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If I only Had A Brain Part 1 April 17 4:50 pm, Part 2 4:56 pm, Part 3 5:09 pm, Part 4 April 18 2:53 pm
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Supercalafragilisticexpialadoucious April 18 3:54 pm
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The Wheels On The Bus Part 1 April 23 5:30 pm, Part 2 by jhall a couple minutes later

The GM is a Giant and i will never trust him. How many ex giants did he sign? Are any helping today? Now, for this youth movement… move them out. I would trade the entire outfield for one homerun hitter. 11 hrs from the entire outfield in any bodys mind is terrible. So andre got his 6th…how many times has he hit a homerun with nobody on. He may have a pretty face, unless he can play ss move him out. Kemp.. while he is woth something … make a big time trade.. i want to win now … not wait for this bad experiment

What’s the sense of trading our outfield when you can’t trust the GM doing the negotiating and player evaluation?
I certainly agree that you can’t trust our GM, and his Giant roots may have a lot to do with that. Not that he is deliberately screwing up, but where he learned whatever he knows about baseball is not an example that I would want to follow. So, let’s get rid of Ned first and then see what remains to be fixed.

Firing Ned will make an impact on personnel available, but unless they can Torre’s sorry butt as well, the product on the field won’t be much different.

I agree though bear – I wouldn’t trust Ned trading any of the kids for something of value. Also, if the kids had some support by decent vets so that they weren’t the ones carrying the team, I think they’d be doing better than we’ve seen. Torre’s also messed with their heads – benchings the next day after home runs, benchings after multiple hit games… if Joe was out to break their spirit, he’s done just that – it doesn’t look like they have any fun playing at all now. HOF my ***.

DODGERBOY:
I agree with everything you’re saying with some exception.
Pierre( everybody knew this was wrong)
Schmidt( Not entirely Ned’s fault) unless he was aware.
Loaiza(he’s gone now)
Nomar(He helped a lot when we needed him in ’06, not in ’07)
Proctor like Pierre was not really needed by us, but the Yankees needed help(a real dumb deal,
but smart for the Yankees)
Jones(All he’s done is stand in Ethier’s way)
IMO Colletti has not helped this team and more likely has hurt it.
BUT the bottom line is winning and I just don’t believe that the above moves are what the problem is right now.
The main thing IMO is that the Dodger offense- including everyone young and old- is not keeping up with the comp
etition and until it does, we’re not going very far.
JOE PIERRE

I understand wanting to win now, but if we let Colletti trade our entire outfield for a marquee-name HR bat, we’re gonna end up with Ken Griffey Jr.

Don’t get me wrong, I like Griffey, one of the greatest players of the last 20 years with Gwynn and (I have to give props) pre-steriod 20th Century Bonds. But I think you get my point.

I strongly believe that we lack the resources and, as the track record reads, the GM to make moves that will leave us with a team that can win the World Series this year or next. If we’re gonna do it, this is the horse we’re gonna have to ride on. Maybe just get rid of the guy responsible for the rickety, broken down stagecoach we’ve hitched to it.

The most convincing thing that Frank could do to show that winning is important to him is to FIRE NED NOW. That would make a statement that we’re not satisfied with pissing away his money for no results. Let’s get that fresh man or woman in the GM chair from within the organization in time to do whatever needs to be done before the trade deadline. Torre then needs to be reminded that we’re on a rebuilding course this season with young players, period. If he can’t follow that direction, give him a different assignment in the organization and get some fresh blood that will get fired up once in a while instead of sitting calmly in the dugout like he doesn’t give a Shidt.

You’re right, PierreEW, the bottom line is winning and the present management team has done a poor job of creating a team and environment where it can take place. You can argue about individual personnel decisions all night, whose fault they were or weren’t or whether or not they should have been made, etc. but, taken in totality, results have not taken place and, just like persons of responsibility in any business, individuals must be held accountable. Torre and Colletti are responsible and, IMO, should be replaced. Logan White is a possibility for Ned’s replacement and Yeagar is a possibility for Torre but I’m sure there are others. I’ll leave that to the powers that be to decide.As it stands right now, this team isn’t going to make the playoffs and , even if it did, we’d be swept out in the first round. We need to be sellers during the trading period and, quite honestly, I don’t trust Colletti to make the necessary deals to improve the D’s. We need to clear out some of our free agents to be (Lowe) and some of the other vets at the trading deadline, find out during the remainder of this season what we have, and start fresh next year.

I REALLY don’t think it’s as much Torre’s fault as some people make it out to be. He’s barely two and a half months into his first season with the team, and he only has what Colletti gives him to work with. Sure, I don’t like that he relies on veterans so much, but Jeter wasn’t a veteran when Torre got the team (Jeter isn’t the greatest defensively today, but that’s a subject for another team’s blog).

Firing him would just make us prone to continuing the McCourt Revolving Door Philosophy that’s led us nowhere to this point. There is indeed a problem with this team, but it’s not the new guy, it’s the guy who can’t make up his mind between playing the youth and bringing in past-their-prime vets to stunt the growth.

I’m not averse to trades if we get people in their primes. But if we trade a Betemit for a Proctor again (or in this case, an Ethier for a Borowski), I’ll be pushed into next spring the way Boston’s seemingly pushed the Lakers into next fall (apologies to Plaschke).

… But now seeskybout2rain’s Yeager-as-Manager proposition has me in a daydream… I’d still give Torre the respect to keep him on for at least one more season, but like I said, I don’t think Torre is the problem.

First of all – I vote for tomorrow now, since the 5 inning has already passed, but I will settle for tomorrow morning – 6am. lol!! Loved the voting – wish I could have voted sooner, but I was watching my son pitch a 6 inning shut out for his summer highschool team (they ended in a tie 2-2 after 7 innings because of time constraints), but I guess it didn’t go so well for Penny today. From your reactions, he pitched like crap. I must say I was pretty proud of our young players today, especially Mr. Ethier (NICE JOB ANDRE!!!). It was nice to see him break out of his 1 for 16 slump in a big way. I think jhall brought him and our young players some ITD love today.
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Sara – I would have loved to comment on the sock thing, but all I could do was laugh when reading about it. After seeing highlight clips on website I’m not so sure. However, Andre will probably stick with it until he has another “0 for” day. Like you said, anything that helps the team. I really thought they had this game, and then the implosion of Penny just killed me.
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I’m not going to comment on the veterans today, but I will say the kids did a great job getting their hits,runs and RBI’s today. Hopefully they will do the same tomorrow when Kershaw pitches.
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As for jhall, I hope his trip wasn’t all too bad. To look at it positively, the kids did well for him, and he has said all along, as long as the kids are playing and doing their best, he would take them over the vets any day.
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Pierre 0-5 today with and RBI and a K – enough said. Sorry, I commented on a veteran🙂
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eric – if you didn’t get my post from the previous thread – great job in listing all the songs. I counted 126, not including any done today, but then it was 5:30 in the morning, so I could have been off by a couple.
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PierreEW- I’m trying to say positive, and you are right in that everybody is currently struggling on offense. Hopefully today will spark, at least our young players (socks or no socks) to start carrying the team because maybe they are starting to realize they are on their own and need to start fighting for themselves because there’s nobody out there helping them right now (meaning management and veterans). I said it last night, and it hurts to say, but the Giants have found a way to mix the veterans with the young core they have, and the veterans are stepping up to the plate and being true veterans for their young ball players. Omar Viscal stealing home was a classic example, and not only that, he is out there whenever they need him and puts 100% effort every time. The veterans certainly aren’t playing the blame game(not in the public eye anyway) – the veterans are admitting when they are screwing up, and they are treating it like a team effort and not a young vs. old problem.
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sorry for the long post, but I had a lot to say
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enchanted, crash, jungar and company – always fun to read when you guys are going back and forth.

I’m not saying that it’s all Torre’s and Ned’s fault. There has been some bad luck and bad performances in this situation, too In fact, IMO, managers get too much credit when they win and too much of the blame when they lose. Managers are heavily dependent on the performances they get from their players. But they are in charge of putting players in a position where players can succeed. Ultimately, they are respnsible. I’m only interested in getting fair value in prospects for the vets we would trade not other team’s veteran rejects or salary dumps.

“Penny said he felt discomfort while warming up in the bullpen. He’s been bothered by a sore shoulder for most of the season and has been taking pain medication before every start since early in the year. Penny is 0-7 in his last eight starts.

“’I knew I probably shouldn’t have went out there,’ Penny said. ‘But that would have put the team in a horrible position.’

“He’s scheduled to fly back to Los Angeles on Sunday for a MRI on Monday.”

I just got done reading the same thing about Penny. So, instead of saying anything because he didn’t want to put the team in a horrible position, he chose to not say anything and put his team in an even worse situation knowing what kind of losing streak we are on. Like you said kpookiemon – we knew it all along.
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BTW – lefty pitching tomorrow for the tigers – I guess Ethier will sit once again after having a great outing.
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Here’s a thought – sit Pierre for a day and let Ethier work on his batting with lefties. The worse he could do is go 0-5 like Pierre did today, and then we could see a defense of Young, Kemp and Ethier. Oh, I forgot, how many times have we suggested it – an unfathomable number I would imagine. LOL!!!

OK, Penny tried to pitch though pain, but didn’t his pitching these last several starts put the team in a horrible (winning) position as well? I can’t see where it helps the team any when you’re serving up batting practice.

I just don’t get ANYBODY’S mentality on this team, be it front office, manager & coaches, or players.

enchanted – like kpookiemon said, this board has suspected this all along. Isn’t it getting a little tiring being treated like we, the fans, are stupid and can’t see these things? Some of these things that are happening(especially injury reports) are just blatant misjudgement, management or whatever you want to call it, and assuming we are all idiots and don’t know the difference.

Penny is saying between the lines what we all feel. It’s time to take care of medical issues becasue this team is in transition and in NO position to contend. If I’m Penny, Furcal, Schmidt, Jones or even Nomar, I’d say to myself, “Why rush?” I’d rather get healthy and look toward 2009. That’s PRECISELY why I’d start the youth movement NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Be sellers over the next month and let’s move on to the next Dodger chapter. If Ned, Joe, and Frank can’t see that, then why are we even wasting our time, emotions and dollars on this debacle? FRANK! We won’t hate you if you give Ned the directive to sell…but no kids! DO NOT TRADE THE FUTURE. Trade the veteran gristle while it’s still worth something. Addition by subtraction. Whatever you want to call it. Heck, for that matter, we won’t hate you if you give Ned the boot, and let soemone else create the new chapter.

Josh – here’s something constructive… have Logan White or one of his scouts checkout nells’ son and keep him on the radar these next few seasons for when he’s a senior.

I’ve NEVER seen a team with as many major injuries as the D’s have been since the wonderful Stan Conte took over. Whether he’s incompetent or lazy I don’t know, but I do know Schmidt couldn’t have been right when they signed him. Andrew was not only fat, but I doubt a golfball sized wart appears overnight that he didn’t discover it. Nomore’s fragile anyway, but the length of the injury is suspect. Bennett’s mystery injury (not that we care in a ballclub sense, but I don’t like anyone to get injured.) Furcal’s back. Then they blow smoke up everyone’s heiny about not being serious, or they had a minor setback. Thank God the young guys (Abreu excepted, and that one’s weird too) are all strong and healthy. I personally wouldn’t let Conte treat a hang nail. I’ll say right now, Penny’s MRI – slight tear in the rotator cuff, out for the season. Ineffective in 2009.

And I do blame JoJo for this season so far. He may not have a lot to work with, but doesn’t in the remotest sense play the best players. China or no, any baseball man that’s been around the game for 50 years can’t take ST and 2 months evaluating talent, and then trot out the BS line-ups JoJo does. If he plays talent over his own stupidity, we’re at least at .500, possibly 3-4 games better than .500. He has a sick sense of loyalty to the vets that isn’t justified, especially on this team. And since he loves them so much, perhaps he can use them as pall bearers because this season’s dead.

Matt Kemp returned from his two-game suspension with an RBI infield single, but it was Andre Ethier who led the way with a home run, double and four RBIs. James Loney and Delwyn Young had three hits each, two of Loney’s being doubles, in a 13-hit attack. Loney has a 12-game hitting streak, batting .405. Young is batting .345 in his last 12 games.

“Maybe it was a kick in the butt,” said Ethier, a reference to the pregame meeting that included a guest appearance by visiting hitting coach Don Mattingly, and was described by manager Joe Torre as “a pep talk.”

enchanted – you just crack me up!!!! LMAO
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About Michael – he’s a giants fan, and right now there is no way in h*ll he would play for the Dodgers, but I told him if the right offer came along, he would – lol!!. Not only did he pitch six innings today, he was closer yesterday and pitched two innings with no runs scored. He has his bad days like all pitchers, but it hasn’t happened in a while. Also, he’s coming off a broken arm in which the cast was taken off in the later part of May. We just hope the coaches look out for him and not over pitch him this summer.

Just sit right back & you’ll hear a tale, a tale of a fateful team
That started from this general manager with his tiny brain.
his mate was a mighty scouting man, The roster old for sure.
twenty Five passengers set sail that day for another loss for sure,
another loss for sure

The veterans started getting old, his bat was missing balls,
If only for the courage of the fearless fans
The season would be lost,
The season would be lost.

The team’s a-ground in the last place of this uncharted west
With joe torre
The colletti too,
The millionaire and his wife,
The chavez ravine

I was just looking at that poll again that you guys mentioned at the beginning of this thread. Other than Furcal, the rest of them can stay on the DL for all I care. The sad thing is the one we want back won’t be the one that comes back.

So, Lowe & Kent – gone at the trade deadline?? IMO both are going to be begging Ned. Lowe so he can run up his worth, and Kent to chase his ring. Lowe – Yankees. Kent – Cubs. What do we get in return??

Maybe we can get the ballboy to hang some balls on the bats. While he’s at it maybe he can hang some on Ned too and he’ll deal Lowe, Pierre, and Kent. Unfortunately, none of the other PVLs have any value.

Why would you have DY DH when he’s obviously a better outfielder than JP? Why not the other way around so that you have a stronger defensive team? I know there’s a problem with mentioning JP and Hitter in the same sentence, but other than that?

Of course, why would you PH for a guy hitting .167 with a guy that’s hitting .118?

Yeah nells. And I want him to hang some football sized ones on Ned so that the next time other GM’s come-a knockin’, they’ll be able to see Ned’s all business now and will stop trying to fleece him of our young guys for their old PVLs.

It will be fun around here when Nomar gets back and replaces Berroa, for as long as he stays healthy as we wait for Furcal.
I can just see those post –no more nomar–and the like.
Maybe you’ll give Pierre a break.
O.K. boys & girls, got to get up early tomorrow a big nostalgia trip to the Rockaways with the New York Transit Museum in ancient subway cars.
Hope the Dodgers are winning or won when I get back.

I am really having a hard time wrapping my head around the management’s love for Pierre (Juan). He gets countless accolades for the smallest remote things that he does, when other players from other teams that are in the same position, order in line-up, etc., are purely expected, not lavished over.

Okay I’ve been saying this all season but I KNEW that something was wrong with Penny. I have been waiting for Penny to say, “oh, by the way I’ve been pitching hurt all season.” Well, now I know; we all do. I was ready to chew nails when he gave up the lead (THE LEAD MIND YOU; SOMETHING WE HAVEN’T HAD IN AGES) in the 4th today. This was absolutely sickening. What is more sickening is that he just proved what I’ve been afraid of all along; PENNY IS HURT AND HAS BEEN HURT ALL ALONG!!! I think it’s stupid but I hear from jocks (and wannabe jocks) that, “oh, he doesn’t want to admit there’s anything wrong; he wants to prove that he’s tough and can play through the pain.” And take your team down with it??? Yes, I could say that I’m never going to another game again or I’m going to boycott the Dodgers until they put a winning team on the field, but that would just be wrong. First of all, I love the Dodgers and I love the game of baseball too much to ever stay away from it. And I would be called a fair-weather fan if I waited until the Dodgers fielded a winning team and I am anything but a fair-weather fan. But the fact that Penny has been trying (big emphasis on the word trying) to pitch hurt is beyond my comprehension.

thx dnel,
I just get soooooooooo frustrated at the lack of hitting and scoring that when we DO break out, the pitching is horrible!!!

You all may not believe it, but I really am a patient person by nature, but the Dodgers are so trying my patience. That’s why I didn’t sign on immediately after the game. I was too frustrated and I didn’t want to take it out on everyone here.

CP,
I think we are a lot alike. The funny thing is that at school I am always given students that need a patient teacher, and if they saw how I react sometimes to the bonehead decisions our management makes for our team, they would be floored. I thought for sure this was going to be a win today when Andre hit his ground rule double, and then bamb!! The next thing I see when I check the score, we are losing!! All I kept thinking is what this board, (especially jhall because he was there) was thinking. Actually I knew what they were thinking. Man that was a frustrating game, and I didn’t even get to see it. I was watching game day on my phone. The people around me thought I was crazy I’m sure. I, however, am very proud of how are kids did today. Like I said earlier, it kind of seems like they might be on their own to figure out a way to win because their veteran leaders sure aren’t helping them, not to mention their manager or coaches.

thx for the words dnel,
I’ve been reading your words and our little exchanges from time to time and I thought the same thing, that I think we are a lot alike. I just haven’t mentioned it before. Oh, btw wouldn’t that be a trip to have your son pitching for the Dodgers someday! I know he’s a gnats fan, but just tell Michael that most players that make it to the big leagues don’t start playing for they’re favorite teams! They may end up that way at the end of their career, but it doesn’t start out that way!

I was thrilled to see that the kids played so well today and so outplayed the so-called vets. I can’t remember if I actually posted this here or I was just thinking of posting, but I really think that it would be in their best interests as well as our own if we traded Pierre, Kent or Lowe (or a combination thereof). They can get something that they’re not going to get from the 2008 Dodgers and we get the kids to play together for the rest of the year! Everyone wins! I’m just not sure if management sees it that way. Maybe we can get the tools we need to make a run in 2008 but to really contend in 2009!

Josh, please forward my comments to the Dodgers’ brass and see what they think. I’m a die hard Dodger fan; always have been and always will be. I’ve been watching the Dodgers for close to 50 years and to say it’s been frustrating that we have only managed one post-season victory and haven’t won a post-season series in 20 years is sickening!

CP,
I grew up in a household that was all LA fans (Dodgers, Lakers, Rams), and the only LA team I stuck with was the Dodgers. The earliest memory I have of really wanted to know the Dodgers like I do today is when Steve Yeager was catcher. So, when it was brought up earlier today thinking that as a possible management solution, I was pretty excited eventhough it is probably just wishful thinking. I am a big Scioscia fan too, but I think that ship has already sailed, unfortunately. He has done some wonderful things with that club down the road from Dodger Stadium, and I just wish our management would look into what they are doing and try to copy if necessary. However, they got the better end of the deal in players. They got Hunter, and we got Andruw – big deal!!!

dnel,
Yeah, I get reminded of the Torii/Andruw signings from my husband. He’s also an Angels fan as well as a Cubby. And yes, the Angels have a great team. I don’t mind watching them or even rooting for them; as long as they’re not playing the Dodgers. Then I revert back to my lifelong passion for Dodger winning baseball!!! I was a huge Scioscia fan during his playing days and I even love him as a manager; he is a great manager. Too bad the Dodgers don’t still have him; darn it News Corp.

Well, gotta go. I’m getting tired. I was going to leave you with my favorite Brad Penny quote from today:

“I’m not doing the team any good and not doing myself any good. I’ve got to see what’s going on.” Ya think Penny???

I feel like slitting my wrists. Man, I shouldn’t even joke about that. It really hurts to watch this team right now though. And to see Brad Penny like the shell of his old self… it’s pitiful to say the least. Proctor and Sweeney need to be gone as of yesterday. Why Joe insists on using Proctor instead of Kuo in long middle relief is beyond me. What did Kuo do to deserve “mop up” status anyway?

Doubt this will happen, but this would be my ideal lineup until we get Nomar back. No sense in trotting Trigger out there if he can’t find his way on base. Yeah… they also call him Slappy.

On June 13, 1973 Alston penciled Garvey, Lopes, Russell and Cey into the Dodgers starting line-up for the first time. They lost. The L.A. Times began calling them the Little Blue Bicycle (in contrast to the Big Red Machine)–but they were good, winning 95 games but still finishing second to the Reds. 95 wins and no playoff!!! They went 58-42 after June 13. The Dodgers would lose the World Series the next year to the A’s…and in the next six years they went to the World Series three times, finally winning in ’81.

Today is June 14, 2008. 35 years. Frank or Ned or Joe has got to pick up the phone. One appendage of the tri-headed beast has got to speak up…have the guts…man the trigger…it’s time for the Dodgers to molt. Shed skin. Get even younger.

Easler said he asked Manager Joe Torre to call a meeting for the position players, mainly so he could remind the players to relax. Easler said that he asked Torre, special assignment coach Don Mattingly, Ethier and Russell Martin to speak.

“I know these guys are capable,” Easler said.

They certainly looked that way against Eddie Bonine, who picked up a win in his major league debut even though he gave up six runs and nine hits in 5 1/3 innings.

Ethier said he thought the meeting was beneficial.

“It’s tough to have an identity if nobody’s stepping forward,” Ethier said. “Sometimes you need someone to point it out and show the way.”
.http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-dodgerreport15-2008jun15,0,1269412.story
.
I guess we would have to assume from this meeting that Martin and Ethier were called to be leaders for the team. Isn’t that supposed to be the job of our veterans? Not that I mind. We all think Russell is Captain anyway, but if management is leaving the leadership role to our young players, Martin and Ethier, than why do we need the veterans – get rid of them! It is becoming more and more obvious that the veterans are useless both on and off the field.

My last late night reading: Not a real positive article, but it does point out our one big flaw – Ned Coletti.
.

http://laist.com/2008/06/14/time_to_start_the_fire.php
.
Here’s the portion of the article that talks about Coletti-
.
Unfortunately, the Dodgers offense is now exposed for what it is: an average hitting team with below average power who had a tendency to strand runners on the basepads.

In response to this, in particular the lack of productivity in the shortstop position, what does the fearless GM Ned Colletti do? He’s not afraid to pick up yet another hack. This time the hack is in the form of Angel Berroa, the 2003 AL Rookie of Year, from the Kansas City Royals. That alone should have raised alarms, but the fact that Berroa couldn’t make the team the last several seasons really should have stopped Colletti.
.
Get this. The Royals wanted Berroa gone so badly they decided to pay most of his inflated salary.
.
While some may call me a clown for my ripping of the Lakers, the clown nose for this town should definitely go to Ned Colletti. He admittedly doesn’t look at statistics instead favoring how he feels about a player. It’s now his third year as the GM, and now it’s time to hold him to the fire. But there are 88 more games to do that.

It never ceases to amaze me how self-sacrificing these veterans are who go out and play hurt for the “good of the team”, even if it means losing 7 games in a row. They hide the hurts so well while taking anti-inflamatories, not that it seems such a great task to do that in front of Conte. Maybe Kuo will now actually get the chance to pitch in a meaningful game – perhaps even to start. I don’t think we’ll miss the Penny that we have been seeing the past month or so. The only thing I’ll miss about him is that we have one less trading chip before the July deadline.

messagebear,
That was the most disturbing article I have read in the last few weeks only because we have seen so much of the media focus on the young players and their inabilities, and for our management to let that happen on top of hiding all these pretty serious injuries (Furcal, Penny, etc), is just plain irresponsible and not having any concern for the other players. It makes you wonder what’s coming next. Hopefully a good thing – Ned gets fired!!

It’s morning music time, and this song was done in the hopes that one day our dreams will come true
.

To the tune of “If You’re Happy and You Know It” –
.
.
We will be happy when Ned is gone, that’s for sure
We will be happy when Ned is gone, that’s for sure
We will be happy when Ned is gone, then
it won’t be hard to move on
We will be happy when Ned is gone, that’s for sure
.
We will be happy if all the vets get to trade
We will be happy if all the vets get to trade
We will be happy if all the vets
just all get out of the west
We will be happy if all the vets get to trade
.
We will be happy when all the kids get to play
We will be happy when all the kids get to play
We will be happy when all the kids
find their way and get their hits
We will be happy when all the kids get to play
.
If all these things can happen, we will win
If all these things can happen, we will win
If all these things can happen,
then the best is yet to come
If all these things can happen, we will win
.

Right on, dnel, but I’ll settle for first things first – like your first stanza when Ned is GONE. When that finally happens, all other good things become possible.
Do it now, Frank. FIRE NED, and a big cloud will lift off Dodger Stadium.

This really has no poinancy right now, but it just kinda fell together:

Aaaaaare we gonna see you there tonight?
Ahhhh out in center, left or right?
Aaaaaare you gonna let it all hang out?
Fat bottomed ‘Druw you make the Dodger world go round (your big butt)
.
(Guitar and heavy beat)
.
Hey!
I was just a skinny lad
Once was good but now I’m bad
But I knew Ned and so I left Atlanta G
Grew a hefty big fat fanny
Lost a step out of my tranny
Krispy Kreme ya dun made a fat boy out of me
.
(Guitar, heavy beat, clap-clap)
Hey hey!
.
I’ve been swinging with my bat
Across the plate, around the fat
I’ve missed every nasty slider down away
But the beauty of it all
Still get my million dollars haul
I don’t care ’bout what any blogger’s got to say
.
(Quick drum solo)
.
Ahhhhh will you be playin’ there tonight?
Ahhhh out in center, left or right?
Aaaaaare you gonna let it all hang out?
Fat bottomed ‘Druw you make the Dodger world go round
Fat bottomed ‘Druw you make the Dodger world go round
.
(Guitar solo)
.
Hey listen here
Now with your spoon and with your fork
Try some salad, try some pork
Ain’t no fatty dudes in this locality (I tell you)
Bein’ thin would bring us pleasure
Not an oversized tape measure
Great big Andruw try not to hit one forty three
.
(Drums)
.
Aaaaaaaare you gonna be in there tonight
Ahhhhh out in center, left or right
Aaaaaaaare you gonna let it all hang out?
Fat bottomed ‘Druw you make the Dodger world go round (your big butt)
Fat bottomed ‘Druw you make the DODGER world go round
.
Get off the bench and try
Fat bottomed ‘Druw
Get ‘em plowboy
Fat bottomed ‘Druw…
.
(Guitar end.)

Baseball is one game where “hope always seems to spring eternal” – so, why not dream that Druw comes back 220’ish (lbs. that is) and ready to rack them up. The reality is that the only thing he’s likely to rack up is an extra slab of spare ribs.

ENCHANTED!!!!!!! Queen is always a good one to get up to.
Has anyone done Bohemian Rhapsody? – that would be a fun one to do.
.
And as for mine, thank MLK -he’s the one that started the children’s song genre with “Brown Bear, Brown Bear.” – still laughing about that one.

Isn’t that a fact messagebear – If Josh wants a general theme of this board, getting rid of Ned is it. There will definitely be blue skies ahead when that happens. I said “when” instead of “if” because this is one dream that has to happen.

I got this over at Dodger Thought – assuming this is the lineup – I guess we should be thankful it is AL and Ethier will get to bat (and it’s now Sweeney), but why not put Ethier in the outfield and be the strong outfield with Young, Kemp and Ethier – hmmmmm!!! JUST DON’T GET IT!! JOE – WE DON’T GET IT!! Play the best outfielders – Pierre is not one of them.
.

My bad – Russell is DHing – I assumed Young was in the lineup, and he’s not.
.
This from Tony Jackson
LaRoche got hit in the face by a bad-hop grounder during BP and had a severe nosebleed, but he’s fine.

First off…I wasn’t happy about Torre, and his staff to begin with. They should have hired Kirk Gibson to manage, and to bring in a different pitching coach (Orel maybe) because Honeycutt is not the answer.

Has anyone taken a real look at Pierres numbers since he became the lead off man? With him at leadoff preceaded by the ptichers spot and the Need to use Borroa now you have an entire inning of outs bunched together. And when Toore makes the matter worse by putting in Maza to replace Kent…we get what get don’t we. Should I bring up Sweeny not only getting at bats, but in the starting line up…Come On!

Replace the batting coach for starters.
Bench Pierre, and Maza, live with Borroa.
Play LaRoche, DeWitt, Young, Andre, Kemp, Loney

Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy?
Caught in a downslide, No escape from Ned Col-let-ti
Andruw’s big thighs, Penny lights up the skies you see,
I’m just a blogger, no con-struc-tiv-ity
The season’s easy come, easy go, seldom highs, many lows
Anyway the vets blow doesn’t really matter to Ned, to Ned.
.
Pierre, a dead horse man, popped up to left again
But steals him second now and then
Sweeney, hitting one eighteen
And Nomore getting brittler everyday
Bennett, ooh-ooh-ooh-oo, and now Berroa too
Its Neddy’s P V Ls that give us sorrow
We’re so screwed, we’re so screwed, but to Ned it doesn’t matter
.
Jason, who’s career is done
Has setbacks that’s a sign, his shoulder’s aching all the time
Goodbye, ev’rybody, Lowe’s got to go
Gotta leave us all behind to chase the loot
Raffy, ooh ooh-ooh-oo, please get better soon
I really wish you’d never been hurt at all
.
(guitar transition)
.
I see a huge silhouetto of a man
Andruw Jones, Andruw Jones, will you be eating for two?
Oh no Proctors’s pitching, Bloggers start their bitching now
(Jeffy Kent.) Jeffy Kent. (Jeffy Kent.) Jeffy Kent, Jeffy Kent its time to go
Its Neddy-Co-O-O-O. I’m just a GM nobody loves me
He’s just a poor GM from a poor pedigree
Spare all the D’s from his monstrosities
.
(piano)
.
Easy come, easy go, will you let Ned go
Frank McCourt! No, I will not let him go
(Let him go!) Frank McCourt! I will not let him go
(Let him go!) Frank McCourt! I will not let him go
(Let him go.) I will not let him go
(Let him go.) I will not let him go. (Let him go.) Ah
No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
(Oh Logan White, Logan White.) Logan White says, let him go
Beelzebub has a devil put aside for Ned, for Ned, for Ned .
So you think you can stop me from getting old veterans
Guess you’d better stock up on your Ex-ced-er-an
Oh, baby, my vets carry us , baby
Just gotta play them, just gotta play them all the time-a
‘
(guitar transition)
.

Exactly what are Torre’s credentials? That he can take the best players money can buy and win 4 championships in 12 years, and none in the last several even though he’s had the same caliber of players? Pathetic.

I thought it would be Ethier, but I figure it’s a Pierre thing. It seems like everything lately goes back to Pierre needing to play everyday. I was expecting Young as the right fielder and Sweeney as DH to be honest. Joe just won’t put the best outfielders on the field – It’s a Pierre love thing – or could it possibly be blackmail? – lol!

LMAO!!!! anything is possible enchanted. I have never seen so much love for a player – somethings up~ If you think about it, one day he was riding pine, the next day he never leaves the lineup. Any of the theories that this board has come up with are not in left field (ha, ha ) – well the theory happens to be in left field – lol!!!

The team record with JP leading off speaks for itself 14-23. I don’t think it takes a rocket scientist to figure out that it ain’t workin’.

And really – Maza over LaRoche at 2B? DY on the bench after going 3 for 4?

I honestly believe that ANY other manager has this team at .500 worst, and a reverse of the current record at best. Torre hasn’t instilled winning, he’s instilled entitlement of veterans to play when nothing suggests that they warrant it, and what’s worse, he’s taken once enthusiastic kids and broken their spirit so that we have unsure ballplayers who are probably afraid of their own shadow for fear that Torre would play their shadow over them – he does it all the time playing veterans who are a shadow of their former selves.

This is also what happens when you have two PR guys (McCourt and Ned) making PR moves. Oh look I got the highest priced FAs. Oh look I got a HOF manager. Is not about what the team needs – I doubt either of these two boobs have a concept of that. Its all photo ops and PR to get 4 million butts in the seats. Oh, we’re losing? Well let’s go out and get another big name so we don’t lose out on any ticket sales. Meanwhile the future of this franchise is regressing and it won’t be long until people like Logan White and Kim Ng leave for greener pastures. Then we’ll see if Ned can put together a winner with no upside veterans and no farm either.

Meta

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