Can you prove the Resurrection of Jesus Christ actually occurred? It seems to me that if a man came back from the dead that there would be more than one book about it. I mean, seriously, he came back from the dead and the only book about it is the Bible?

I think it can be demonstrated beyond any reasonable doubt that the Resurrection of Christ actually occured in history. And I think William Lane Craig shows this to be true in his numerous debates with highly intelligent atheists and non-believers.

Really? Christianities entire existence hangs on this the "resurrection" if it were proved false then Christianity would go down the tubes. But if it were not for the 16 other saviours with the same MO this might hold water.

What makes you want to resurrect the dead? And must we revisit the grave so soon?Let the living live and the dead remain dead.And let this thread like the rotting corpse of Jesus remain in the tomb!

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Truthfinder:the birds adapt and change through million of years in order to survive ,is that science, then cats should evolve also wings to better catch the birdsMailbag:On a side note, back in college before my conversion, I actually saw a demon sitting next to me in critical thinking class.

Fran is now gone from the forum and won't be returning. He wanted his account deleted, but I denied the request, because I feel it is important to have the person that responded to all of our patient members to have his member name attached to all of his posts for the permanent record.

This is one of the longest continuing debates we have ever had on this forum, and it taxed many members who tried to drill down into Fran's facts (or perceived facts) and were never satisfied at his explanations. It is the highest ranked thread ever by both posts and views. At this time, I am of the mind that there is no convincing evidence that a man named Jesus rose from the dead. But, as with all our debates here, it is for each member to decide for him/her self in the end.

Thanks to all who contributed to this important debate.

If anyone has any final comments for the record, please post them now.

What makes you want to resurrect the dead? And must we revisit the grave so soon?Let the living live and the dead remain dead.And let this thread like the rotting corpse of Jesus remain in the tomb!

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Truthfinder:the birds adapt and change through million of years in order to survive ,is that science, then cats should evolve also wings to better catch the birdsMailbag:On a side note, back in college before my conversion, I actually saw a demon sitting next to me in critical thinking class.

Not suprising that Fran wanted to "annul" this discussion and pretend it never happened. It is also not suprising that Fran's only source for his "facts", WLC or his minions, never showed up here to support Fran. I wonder how long until we get yet another Christian presenting this nonense again.

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"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

Born of a virgin, Isis. Only begotten son of the God Osiris. Birth heralded by the star Sirius, the morning star. Ancient Egyptians paraded a manger and child representing Horus through the streets at the time of the winter solstice (about DEC-21). In reality, he had no birth date; he was not a human. Death threat during infancy: Herut tried to have Horus murdered. Handling the threat: The God That tells Horus’ mother “Come, thou goddess Isis, hide thyself with thy child.” An angel tells Jesus’ father to: “Arise and take the young child and his mother and flee into Egypt.” Break in life history: No data between ages of 12 & 30. Age at baptism: 30. Subsequent fate of the baptiser: Beheaded. Walked on water, cast out demons, healed the sick, restored sight to the blind. Was crucifed, descended into Hell; resurrected after three days.

Most of that isn't true, Emily. Don't copy and paste from those websites that only exist to compare Horus to Jesus, they lie a lot or stretch the truth. Research Horus directly on websites with no anti-Jesus bent. There are similarities, and I do believe some of Jesus' story is stolen from it, but it's not nearly as similar as you've been lead to believe.

Isis was not a virgin, for example. She used the severed penis of her dead Husband to impregnate herself, and she was not a virgin even before that as she'd been married for many years before her husband's death.

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"Do you see a problem with insisting that the normal ways in which you determine fact from fiction is something you have to turn off in order to maintain the belief in God?" - JeffPT

Why are you focusing on Horus? Emily posted a link with ten different dudes. Even if Horus isn't one of them, that still leaves nine. And considering that there are probably thousands of religions, most of which pre-date christianity... Well, you get the point.

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The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?We choose our own gods.

Born of a virgin, Isis. Only begotten son of the God Osiris. Birth heralded by the star Sirius, the morning star. Ancient Egyptians paraded a manger and child representing Horus through the streets at the time of the winter solstice (about DEC-21). In reality, he had no birth date; he was not a human. Death threat during infancy: Herut tried to have Horus murdered. Handling the threat: The God That tells Horus’ mother “Come, thou goddess Isis, hide thyself with thy child.” An angel tells Jesus’ father to: “Arise and take the young child and his mother and flee into Egypt.” Break in life history: No data between ages of 12 & 30. Age at baptism: 30. Subsequent fate of the baptiser: Beheaded. Walked on water, cast out demons, healed the sick, restored sight to the blind. Was crucifed, descended into Hell; resurrected after three days.

Horus was not born of a virgin. A Egyptian relief shows Isis in falcon form, over an erect phallus of a dead Osiris in the Underworld

In Encyclopedia of Religions by miller.

Quote

"But after she [i.e., Isis] had brought it [i.e. Osiris' body] back to Egypt, Seth managed to get hold of Osiris's body again and cut it up into fourteen parts, which she scattered all over Egypt. Then Isis went out to search for Osiris a second time and buried each part where she found it (hence the many tombs of Osiris that exist in Egypt). The only part that she did not find was the god's penis, for Seth had thrown it into the river, where it had been eaten by a fish; Isis therefore fashioned a substitute penis to put in its place. She had also had sexual intercourse with Osisis after his death, which resulted in the conception and birth of his posthumous son, Harpocrates, Horus-the-child. Osiris became king of the netherworld, and Horus proceeded to fight with Seth..." [CANE:2:1702; emphasis mine] [BTW, the Hebrew word 'satan' is not a 'cognate' of the name 'seth' by any means: "The root *STN is not evidenced in any of the cognate languages in texts that are prior to or contemporary with its occurrences in the Hebrew Bible" DDD, s.v. 1369f]

Not a virgin.

Birthday is irrelevant. Jesus wasn't even born in December

He did not walked on water. No such passage exists.

Break in life history is irrelevant as well. A lot of historical figures have had a similar fate.

He did not get baptized.

Use a reliable source that cites its claims. That certainly isn't one of them. Its simply parroted nonsense that he didn't bother to research.

Why are you focusing on Horus? Emily posted a link with ten different dudes. Even if Horus isn't one of them, that still leaves nine. And considering that there are probably thousands of religions, most of which pre-date christianity... Well, you get the point.

Cause the 9 others are just as dishonest. Or is it easier to parrot non-cited nonsense instead of actual research?

Most of that isn't true, Emily. Don't copy and paste from those websites that only exist to compare Horus to Jesus, they lie a lot or stretch the truth. Research Horus directly on websites with no anti-Jesus bent. There are similarities, and I do believe some of Jesus' story is stolen from it, but it's not nearly as similar as you've been lead to believe.

Isis was not a virgin, for example. She used the severed penis of her dead Husband to impregnate herself, and she was not a virgin even before that as she'd been married for many years before her husband's death.

Can you post some links for me to research then to research Horus directly?

I was only using Horus because it was the first thing to come to my mind. Some believe that Krisna was also born of a virgin, according to the Bhagavata-purana. However, not reading that book and only relying on what I find on the internet, perhaps I am wrong about him being born in a similar manner that Jesus was. But if a religious text does describe the birth of a god-man similar to jesus, before jesus, then it's possible that jesus is a copy-cat.

And even if she had been married 'for years', how long was Joseph married to Mary.

« Last Edit: July 01, 2012, 06:12:07 AM by Emily »

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"Great moments are born from great opportunities." Herb Brooks

I edit a lot of my posts. The reason being it to add content or to correct grammar/wording. All edits to remove wording get a strike through through the wording.

Most of that isn't true, Emily. Don't copy and paste from those websites that only exist to compare Horus to Jesus, they lie a lot or stretch the truth. Research Horus directly on websites with no anti-Jesus bent. There are similarities, and I do believe some of Jesus' story is stolen from it, but it's not nearly as similar as you've been lead to believe.

Isis was not a virgin, for example. She used the severed penis of her dead Husband to impregnate herself, and she was not a virgin even before that as she'd been married for many years before her husband's death.

Can you post some links for me to research then to research Horus directly?

I was only using Horus because it was the first thing to come to my mind. Some believe that Krisna was also born of a virgin, according to the Bhagavata-purana. However, not reading that book and only relying on what I find on the internet, perhaps I am wrong about him being born in a similar manner that Jesus was. But if a religious text does describe the birth of a god-man similar to jesus, before jesus, then it's possible that jesus is a copy-cat.

And even if she had been married 'for years', how long was Joseph married to Mary.

Emily, here's a great site that covers all the copy-cats. That cites real sources and not unfounded claims,

Do you know what "copycat" means? A copycat comes AFTER the original. Those religions pre-date (meaning they came BEFORE) christianity.

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The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?We choose our own gods.

The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?We choose our own gods.

You "resurrected" a thread that died over two years ago, which is considered necromancy and bad form. I was Admin at the time and the conclusion from the debate was that - no - a man named Jesus did not rise from the dead.

If you have information that would convince us please bring it. After 64 pages of debate, I doubt you'll be able to add any convincing evidence but I'm all ears.

You "resurrected" a thread that died over two years ago, which is considered necromancy and bad form. I was Admin at the time and the conclusion from the debate was that - no - a man named Jesus did not rise from the dead.

If you have information that would convince us please bring it. After 64 pages of debate, I doubt you'll be able to add any convincing evidence but I'm all ears.

Well even if for a fact a man name Jesus came back from the dead you couldn't prove it. So its kind of pointless to argue.