I find hard to believe that people can compare the Pre to a WinMo phone and still have the Pre come out on top. I guess maybe I haven't fully understood just what the Pre is. Is it just a phone or is it a PDA? If it is just a phone well then I have no complaints. It is a nice phone with a beautiful interface and sexy look, but a PDA it is far from being. Not even close to any WinMo phone I have owned. I can make my WinMo phone do anything I want short of walking the dog and feeding the kids. There are almost limitless things and ways to configure the OS, and no I'm not a WinMo fanboy or anything. I actually like the iPhone, I loved the Instinct when it dropped and I also like the G1. But when it comes down to functionality, the Pre doesn't even scratch the surface of what a WinMo phone can do.

Wow, this is so mindboggling idiotic it blows my mind...but as I said, its not out of the ordinary for a fan boi of any phone.

Look, you won't find many more of a WinMo buff as me. I've been using the OS since it was WinCE and the GUI was essentially a windows desktop complete with actual start menu. The thing is a mature, well supported OS.

But its hardly god.

First, let me harken you back to the days of PPC. Back when WinMo was actually "PocketPC" and was in Gen 1 it TOO had very, very few applications of any kind, as many WinCE apps just no longer worked on PPC. Not to mention, the apps you had you had to make sure it had it for your processor...

"Huh?" you say.

PPC started out with some machines having a MIPS proc, some having an SH4 I believe it was called, and others still with ARM. So you had to hope your app you were downloading actually had support for your proc in your PPC to be able to use it.

Was really great for usability. :roll:

Not to mention the great amount of customization you could do at first like changing the colors of the bar and background and....changing the colors of the bar and background.

Don't cast stones from glass houses, WebOS as a 1st Gen device is as good if not a better first step, with all things relative over time, as PPC was.

Lets continue.

Yes. WinMo can be made to do just about everything short of walk your dog, and I'm sure the boys over at XDA could figure out how to connect it to a roomba and get it to do that if push came to shove. HOWEVER...if you want any kind of legitimately decent user experience that isn't generally bogged down with bloat will, filled with memory leaks, and slow as crap, you're going to need to be doing some serious ROM cooking. Woohoo, nothing says main stream consumer or someone other than some high school or college kid with a ton of time to spare than weekly or biweekly updates that could potentially brick your phone if you screw up.

And while I know this may come to a shock to some blind WinMo loyalists...which it really shouldn't considering how gaga we all went over TouchFlo3D...aesthetics matter. Things that look good MATTER. Base WinMo looks like Windows 3.1 compared to most of the modern OS's available now. The programs for it look low rent. Its STILL not in any way, shape, or form optimized for touch. WinMo 6.5 has TRIED to help it but its still just kind of putting a bandaid on a bullet wound. You go anywhere outside of what TouchFlo or TouchWiz creates and you're back to bashing your head against the wall as you push away with your finger on the resistive screen with the tiny bars or buttons or entry areas or having to pull out a Stylus like you're still suck in 2001.

WinMo is a great enterprise user experience. Its a WONDERFUL experience for those...ironically enough...that are the type that love linux; those who want to tweak, manipulate, and customize each and every nook and cranny of their phone. Its great for people who want a relatively stable mature OS with a load of software support due to a near decade of life.

But if you want an out of the box experience with a modern looking, aesthetically pleasing, touch focused UI then WinMo is not what you're looking for.

The Pre is most assuredly a "PDA" or a "smart phone". To even say its not, but then laud the iPhone is ridiculous considering the PIM capabilities of the Pre far exceed anything close to what was on the First Gen, launch OS of the iPhone. You've got a phone here with ONE MONTH of life and you're expecting it to be absolutely and completely on par with year to 3 to 10 year old OS's to be considered an "OS"? I'll ask you a question, which of these OS's accomplished that feat:

Man have you got this right. I had the Pre for about 3 weeks when I got a new job - that will support only the use of a Blackberry. Oh....My...God these things suck. I'd never used a Blackberry before.....I like my old Treo 650 better than this thing. It takes so long to accomplish anything and what's with having to delete every text and response individually.....sheesh.

I have 2 friends at work with the touch pro and I had the touch pro with all the different roms and all the custom crap. I told them I was going to try the pre and see what it was all about and they about flipped out lol. Your going to try that piece of crap and I said I have read alot of good reviews about it and Im getting bored with the WinMo crap. I told him yesterday I think this is the best phone I have ever owned. Im serious I like it more and more everyday. I cant imagine going back to a WinMo phone! With this phone in the infant stages its just going to get better. Great job palm!!!

Wow, this is so mindboggling idiotic it blows my mind...but as I said, its not out of the ordinary for a fan boi of any phone.

Look, you won't find many more of a WinMo buff as me. I've been using the OS since it was WinCE and the GUI was essentially a windows desktop complete with actual start menu. The thing is a mature, well supported OS.

But its hardly god.

First, let me harken you back to the days of PPC. Back when WinMo was actually "PocketPC" and was in Gen 1 it TOO had very, very few applications of any kind, as many WinCE apps just no longer worked on PPC. Not to mention, the apps you had you had to make sure it had it for your processor...

"Huh?" you say.

PPC started out with some machines having a MIPS proc, some having an SH4 I believe it was called, and others still with ARM. So you had to hope your app you were downloading actually had support for your proc in your PPC to be able to use it.

Was really great for usability. :roll:

Not to mention the great amount of customization you could do at first like changing the colors of the bar and background and....changing the colors of the bar and background.

Don't cast stones from glass houses, WebOS as a 1st Gen device is as good if not a better first step, with all things relative over time, as PPC was.

Lets continue.

Yes. WinMo can be made to do just about everything short of walk your dog, and I'm sure the boys over at XDA could figure out how to connect it to a roomba and get it to do that if push came to shove. HOWEVER...if you want any kind of legitimately decent user experience that isn't generally bogged down with bloat will, filled with memory leaks, and slow as crap, you're going to need to be doing some serious ROM cooking. Woohoo, nothing says main stream consumer or someone other than some high school or college kid with a ton of time to spare than weekly or biweekly updates that could potentially brick your phone if you screw up.

And while I know this may come to a shock to some blind WinMo loyalists...which it really shouldn't considering how gaga we all went over TouchFlo3D...aesthetics matter. Things that look good MATTER. Base WinMo looks like Windows 3.1 compared to most of the modern OS's available now. The programs for it look low rent. Its STILL not in any way, shape, or form optimized for touch. WinMo 6.5 has TRIED to help it but its still just kind of putting a bandaid on a bullet wound. You go anywhere outside of what TouchFlo or TouchWiz creates and you're back to bashing your head against the wall as you push away with your finger on the resistive screen with the tiny bars or buttons or entry areas or having to pull out a Stylus like you're still suck in 2001.

WinMo is a great enterprise user experience. Its a WONDERFUL experience for those...ironically enough...that are the type that love linux; those who want to tweak, manipulate, and customize each and every nook and cranny of their phone. Its great for people who want a relatively stable mature OS with a load of software support due to a near decade of life.

But if you want an out of the box experience with a modern looking, aesthetically pleasing, touch focused UI then WinMo is not what you're looking for.

The Pre is most assuredly a "PDA" or a "smart phone". To even say its not, but then laud the iPhone is ridiculous considering the PIM capabilities of the Pre far exceed anything close to what was on the First Gen, launch OS of the iPhone. You've got a phone here with ONE MONTH of life and you're expecting it to be absolutely and completely on par with year to 3 to 10 year old OS's to be considered an "OS"? I'll ask you a question, which of these OS's accomplished that feat:

Wow, this is so mindboggling idiotic it blows my mind...but as I said, its not out of the ordinary for a fan boi of any phone.

Well I'm not gonna quote your entire response for lack of space but I want to set somethings straight. First, I didn't compare the Pre to a WinMo, I responded to the comments about just how bad WinMo is and how much better the Pre is. I know WinMo isn't perfect. Far from it. I can't go back as far as you but I have had a few WinMo phones going back to my i930 with WinMo 2003, the PPC6700, PPC6800, Touch & now Touch Pro. So I know the headaches WinMo can be. So you are right it's not right to compare the two being as WinMo has been around a lot longer but you seem to be getting off of the topic. I'm talking about everyday functionality. You are talking about "an out of the box experience with a modern looking, aesthetically pleasing, touch focused UI". Who cares if the phone looks good doing nothing. Yes it is a beautiful phone, but the whole touch focus leaves me wanting a stylus most of the time or at least some arrows on the keyboard. Have you ever tried to go back and correct a mis-spelled word and try getting the cursor right where you need it? Apparently not, because it's a pain in the ***. How about trying to copy and paste? How about the other list of things this phone can't do, that has nothing to do with the OS. Things that I could do on phones 3-4 years ago. Voice dialing, text forwarding, camera with a zoom, just to name a couple of things. Things that just about every phone can do regardless of OS or lack of. How's that for a out of the box experience. PIM capabilities? Let me see, Palm's one-time Data migration, tried it 3 times and never got it to work. Oh let me try Palm Desktop & Hot Sync, oh that's right, doesn't work with the Pre. How about old trusty Outlook, scratch that too. Here we go. Get all contacts into Outlook, upload to Gmail, sync phone with Gmail, sync phone with Palm backup. Now all of my info is now stored on not 1 but 2 servers in cyber space somewhere. That's reassuring. Now I don't recall the G1 having any of these problems. By a month's time my friend had all of his contacts, was getting app notifications all the time and playing games. But back to my original post. Can you or anybody give me ONE (1) reason why anyone should trade in their current phones & buy the Pre right now. Not for what it can be or hopefully will be able to do in the future. I'm talking about right now "out of the box experience" functions.

Oh and I'm not a fanboy. I have had just about every new & hot phone to come out over the last 6-7 years. i just happened to settle on WinMo because of all of the freedom it gave me and functionality. I still have my Instinct on my hip, a couple old Nextel phones laying around including 2 Blackberrys and I even tried the Treo. I will give any phone a try. WinMo or not. I reserved my Pre as soon as all the buzz started coming out. So a fanboy I am not. What is so mindboggling idiotic is all of you new Pre fanboys on here defending this POS and hiding behind the excuse of it's new or the first iPhone didn't do this or that. I never had an iPhone but I do know that it was a one of a kind device. A first, so anything they did or didn't do was groundbreaking or new. This phone is not breaking new ground. It is or was supposed to take from current phones and build on top of it. It has done neither. It doesn't even have basic phone features much less anything new and exciting in the OS department. Granted the phone is beautiful and the whole page mutil-tasking thing is neat but the whole idea isn't new and it doesn't do that great of a job at it. Plus as it stands with the phone lacking soooo much in the app dept. there isn't much to multi task with. I don't compare it to other phones or OS' because in my opinion it can't compare. It's you Pre fanboys on here claiming how much better it is then other OS'.