Tuesday, April 01, 2008

The popular cable access television show and podcast, The Atheist Experience, will air a special fifteen minute episode on Sunday, April 6, announcing the conclusion of the show's ten and a half year run.

When pressed for an explanation, show host and president of the Atheist Community of Austin Matt Dillahunty said: "I've been doing this show for two years now... but then last weekend I just looked out the window and couldn't believe what I saw. Trees. Flowers. Blue sky. Even some birds and stuff. I had never noticed any of them before. And I thought to myself, 'Unbelieveable. If all those things exist then surely someone must have made them.'"

Dillahunty went on to explain that all four of the regular co-hosts were approached to take over the host spot in order to keep the show running, but all of them declined. "I already announced a while back that I would be leaving the show," said Ashley Perrien, another long time contributor to The Atheist Experience. "I didn't feel comfortable explaining my reasons at the time, but I'm much more sure of myself now. I want to dedicate myself to my new religion of Scientology. In fact, I'm on my way to go get an e-meter reading right now. I hope to cleanse all my engrams in about five years, and then maybe I can talk about coming back."

Tracie Harris remarked: "I just realized one day how much I missed the Catholic Church and all their rituals. They've always been like a family to me, and I take comfort and pride in my affiliation with them. I've been chatting with my former priest, and he got me to realize how improper it is for a woman to speak on camera, especially in the capacity of instructing men. I plan to spend the rest of my life atoning for the horrible things I wrote in that stupid Atheist Eve cartoon."

Don Baker was struck by a similar epiphany. "I've been lying to myself all these years," he said. "I thought I was an atheist, but really it was just a childish rebellion against the God who wanted me to live a decent, moral life. Now that I have no further excuse to continue sinning, I plan to finally settle down with my new girlfriend and make an honest woman of her." Having said that, he turned to the adoring young lady by his side, who declined to be identified for this story, and gave her a chaste kiss on the hand.

"It occurred to me that all this science stuff I'd been preaching was my false substitute for a religion," said Russell Glasser, who used to serve as the show's producer. "Once I realized that all these so-called 'scientists' were actually priests of Satan, the wool was removed from my eyes. It's so clear now that evolution is a lie, and that evidence and reason are a terrible way to understand the world. Faith is clearly a superior epistemological tool. I mean, after all, if you can't even believe something as obvious the resurrection of Jesus, how can you believe anything? Like, how can you believe that New York exists, man? I can't believe I've been so blind.

"Also, did you know that the World Trade Center was totally brought down by insiders in the Bush administration?" Glasser added. "It's true! Don't buy the official government story! There's a movie online that explains EVERYTHING!"

In a scheduled press conference, producer Joe Rhodes announced that the show will remain off the air for three days, at which point it will be reborn as a new series entitled "Kickin' It With Jesus."

In related news, audio podcast host Denis Loubet announced that the first episode of "The Prophets" will air in two weeks.

I've decided that I'm not going to be supporting "Kickin' it" as the individuals responsible have latched on to the new, softer, Christianity which is clearly heresy. They've perverted the LORD's Word to fit their own views.

I will, instead, begin a new program called "Kickin' it - old school!" where we'll focus on a strict literal interpretation of the Bible, using only the Authorized Version.

But I'll pray for my former co-hosts and we'll still be able to work together (despite their clear refusal to fully follow the LORD) to vanquish the godless heathens who are trying to destroy the beautiful world that our loving creator has given us.

You are such a tease, thanks for the smile and keep looking, you just may find what you are looking for.

To keep my name's sake ( Dan Marvin Apologetic Power Hour) I read something last night I would love to share. It was written by Mike Matthews who earned a BA and an MEd in English education from Bob Jones University so he is better equipped to convey the message then I. He wrote an article about Babel and their rebellion called "The World in Revolt" which reminded me of the conversations at AE.

In his article he was discussing Genesis 11:1-9 and I want to focus what he said about verse 4 "And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth."

Mike said "This sentence reveals the arrogance of the people of Babel. they sought a name for themselves rather then to honor the name of their creator, who is above all and whose name is worthy of all praise."

It reminded me of what Matt D said yesterday "Your god, if he exists isn't worthy of worship."

Mike went on to say "Throughout history, humans have longed to share God's glory. The serpent tempted Eve with the promise that she and Adam could "be as gods." All man-made religions try to "honor" God by the works of our own hands. God, in contrast, is not impressed by our works. He desires obedience and humility (1 Samuel 15:22-23). Moses's account reminds us how we are all naturally stubborn and rebellious."

Right Matt D and all?

Mike finishes the paragraph with "Ironically, if we are humble and obedient, God will honor our name. Moses shows this by contrasting the events at Babel with the later faithfulness of Abraham. God promised to make Abraham's name great, and all he needed was humble faith (Genesis 12:2)"

"God's gentleness in judging the rebels at Babel is a lesson for us today. God did not let man's rebellion run its full course, as He had before Noah's Flood. He nipped the rebellion in early stages so that humans would not hurt themselves too much.

By changing one language into many, He separated nations more effectively the any Wall of China. God stepped in to prevent the human race from falling under the sway of single, absolute tyrant over all the earth. Only in His time would Christ gather together God's family from every nation and Tongue (Revelation 7:9)

Note God's ironic words. Just as the rebels said, "let us build a tower," God said, "Let us confound their language," Man's counsels can't stand in the face of God's counsel. As the original creator of human speech, God could easily rewire speech so that the evil speakers could no longer speak to one another.

Moses closes the account with a reminder that God will always accomplish His will. We may think we have found a way to circumvent His will, but that is just an appearance. As King Solomon later wrote, "The king's heart is in the hand of the Lord, like the river of water; He turns it wherever He wishes" (Proverbs 21:1)

By this simple act, God forced humanity to proceed down His chosen path-to resettle the earth by families.

God's first Judgment after the Flood proved that He would continue to superintend the events of human history. God wants us to turn to Him, rather then relying on ourselves. One day, whether they like it or not, all people will bow their knee before the name of Jesus Christ, the true bridge between heaven and earth. (Philippians 2:9-11)"

This is just one of a seven part exploration of the Bible that I will present to all of you explaining the need for God and understanding His plan. Thanks Martin for letting me be as one of the authors/ Team members at AE's blog and I hope I will not disappoint your readers. Thanks for the invite as one of speakers on the show and I hope to discuss and the topics presented with a Biblical perspective. I will be there for the April 6th show.

I don't know about you guys, but I feel blessed. And that's pretty blessed. I bet I'm more blessed than you. Or maybe not. But it's a pretty blessed feeling, all the same. It makes me feel totally humble to be so blessed.

Matt: But I'll pray for my former co-hosts and we'll still be able to work together (despite their clear refusal to fully follow the LORD)

Enjoy the day that we observe as "National Atheist's Day" and to help celebrate, a few quotes:

* It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and leave no doubt. --Mark Twain* However big the fool, there is always a bigger fool to admire him. -- Nicolas Boileau-Despréaux* [Politicians] never open their mouths without subtracting from the sum of human knowledge. -- Thomas Reed* He who lives without folly isn't so wise as he thinks. -- François, Duc de La Rochefoucauld* The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly, is to fill the world with fools. -- Herbert Spencer* Sometimes one likes foolish people for their folly, better than wise people for their wisdom. -- Elizabeth Gaskell* Looking foolish does the spirit good. -- John Updike* Let us be thankful for the fools. But for them the rest of us could not succeed. -- Mark Twain* A fool sees not the same tree that a wise man sees. -- William Blake* A fool must now and then be right by chance. -- Cowper* It is better to be a fool than to be dead. -- Stevenson* The first of April is the day we remember what we are the other 364 days of the year. -- Mark Twain

As the article points out "God by the works of our own hands. God, in contrast, is not impressed by our works." all these good works are an abomination to God.

Or as the Bible says in Luke 16:15 "And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God."

There is none good. If a pedophile donates blood, does that make him good also, Logic would say of course not.

and Ouini,

"Dan. I figured you, of all people, would be a little afraid of hellfire?"

Yes I am very afraid of the truth of Hell, It keeps me up at night sometimes. I worry about the lost everyday.

"but whosoever shall say," as it says because we, as humans, are subject to God's Law. Can I set wicked people on fire, of course not but God sure can and will. We are not to condemn each other but God sure can.

Matthew 10:28 "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

Tommy, how can you be so blind to the wonderful, glorious, supercalifragilistic message of hope and love that Brother Dan is giving us here? Don't you get it, you doomed heathen? Who cares about actually being a good person? Certainly not God! That would take effort, and being honest, and who wants to waste time with that?

See, God is so wicked cool that he's made the whole process easy! All you have to do is join the Official Jebus Fan Club (Bible sold separately), and you're SAVED! That's right, brother. You get to call yourself a good person, and not ever actually have to accomplish anything. You get to think you know more about everything than all those stupid liberal egghead scientists, and in fact, you can be a totally uneducated moron the whole time! I mean, look at Dan. It's working for him, ain't it?

See, Christianity just makes life totally easy, because you don't have to do anything, know anything, or care...and you get a VIP backstage pass to Heaven while all those horrible people who wasted their lives thinking and teaching and learning and advancing the human race end up stuck on Earth when the trumps sound, holding onto their balls and looking confused. How cool is that?

Come on Tommy! What kind of person do you really want to be in life? A "good person"? Or a Christian? Can I hear an Ay-men, brutha!?

Martin, I am waiting to see if Richard Dawkins converts to Christianity first, because as you know, we atheists are incapable of thinking for ourselves and blindly follow Dawkins in whatever he says or does.

Dan Marvin belches "If a pedophile donates blood, does that make him good also, Logic would say of course not.".

So, lack of belief in the existence of a deity is on a par with sexually abusing children? Real good logic you got there Danny Boy.

I think I took that quiz a while back. Anyway, I took it again, and I got:

"You scored as a Scientific AtheistThese guys rule. I'm not one of them myself, although I play one online. They know the rules of debate, the Laws of Thermodynamics, and can explain evolution in fifty words or less. More concerned with how things ARE than how they should be, these are the people who will bring us into the future."

My "angry atheist" rating was actually the lowest of the options. I suppose it's because I'm not really angry. Fundies always think that when we mock them, it's because we're angry. Actually, it's because we're amused. That's why we call them fundies. They're just such fun!

If a pedophile donates blood, does that make him good also, Logic would say of course not.

Well if he accepts Jesus, he miraculously will be made good, without having to bother doing something like giving blood or some comparable act of charity, and should he lapse and molest again, he can once again apologize to Jesus and he'll forgive him. Praise Jesus!

Martin can't even pretend to love Jesus, he is an atheist to the bone, presuppositions in place and all, even if light from heaven came down right in front of him he would run scared and hide under a rock.

Revelation 6:16 "And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:"

It was fun to pretend that all of you were actually headed to being saved, although my heart aches still. (If) That Bible is true, all these people that follow your same thought process Martin will be in a horrific place forever. For me, it sure doesn't get more frustrating then this. I too place myself before God and try to help people get saved but I need to trust the Lord fully to change the hearts of the lost. At this point I just may be getting in the way.

Your time on earth is a time of mercy. Those that love Him know the truth about our eternal existence and knowing this truth, we all endeavor to glorify God. We are taught to turn the other cheek by our Lord because our sacrifices, acts of faith & love are from His grace. Grace that may cause the conversion of the one that hurt us or the conversion of others.

The greatest miracle of all is the turning of one's heart towards God (ie. a conversion). A conversion is possible for everyone if they admit of their guilt and accept the words of Jesus as being the truth.

In the end, once we die, the concept of eternity will be obvious to us and we will all realize that this new dimension, the spiritual dimension, is the real dimension. Our choices in this life are gravely important as they will decide our eternal destination.

To reject Jesus, God, your entire life will likely leave you in a place far removed from God. To be without God is to be without peace, hope and love. If we had a glimpse of what true darkness is like, we'd realize that we'd never ever wish Hell on anyone. Not even Hitler.

Your time of mercy is now, in this life, and your choice will be eternal. God entered time and space to turn the other cheek as a sacrifice that atones for your sins and my sins. God, in eternity, does not turn the other cheek again. To reject Christ until the end will mean that you are left with His justice. As great is His mercy, also great is His justice.

The beauty for those of us that love Jesus, is that we trust Him completely and don't worry ourselves with mysteries that are contrary to our natural minds. Many of you will take the prideful stance to reject Him because of the doctrine of Hell. Which is so terribly sad because you actually don’t need to go to Hell if you simply accept Him?

If you are not able to acknowledge your sins because your heart is filled with various emotions that block this capacity, I suggest you take a leap of faith. I suggest you call out to the Lord for help with sincerity and I assure you, you’ll receive it. Call out His name, Jesus Christ, with your lips and never doubt. God, the source of Love, will reveal Himself to you very soon.

Dan Marvin wrote:In his article he was discussing Genesis 11:1-9 and I want to focus what he said about verse 4 "And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth."

Mike said "This sentence reveals the arrogance of the people of Babel. they sought a name for themselves rather then to honor the name of their creator, who is above all and whose name is worthy of all praise."

Let's assume that these people really lived, and really tried to build a tower to Heaven.

It would have gone up and up and up. It might have fallen town under its own weight, and the people would have started over, using better materials and techniques. Each time it falls over, they start again.

Let's give them every possible break, and assume that they have 21st century steel, concrete, trucks, unlimited resources, etc. They manage to build a tower so high that the air is too thin to breathe, and there's still no sign of anything solid for thousands of miles, and certainly nothing like a solid dome of Heaven to which one can bulid a tower.

So if God's purpose was to prevent people from building a tower to Heaven, all God needed to do was... absolutely nothing. So why did he intervene, other than to show off?

Oh, right: because the whole thing's a just-so story to explain why there are different languages.

(BTW, I must recommend Ted Chiang's story Tower of Babylon, which deals with this.)

I believe you missed the point. It wasn't to stop the tower, he changed the languages to spread people around the earth instead of one place.

By changing one language into many, He separated nations more effectively the any Wall of China. God stepped in to prevent the human race from falling under the sway of single, absolute tyrant over all the earth.

By changing one language into many, He separated nations more effectively the any Wall of China. God stepped in to prevent the human race from falling under the sway of single, absolute tyrant over all the earth.

After all, God didn't want competition for the title. ;)

By the way, I notice you perfectly cut and pasted those identical words in two places within this thread.

he changed the languages to spread people around the earth instead of one place.

Because obviously, changing people's languages and causing confusion and chaos is so much easier than just letting people breed, and let them a) move elsewhere because it's getting too crowded and b) move because they're curious about what lies over yonder ridge.

God stepped in to prevent the human race from falling under the sway of single, absolute tyrant over all the earth.

Where are you getting this from? In my Bible, it says, "The LORD said, "If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them." (Gen. 11:6) It seems clear that in this story, God wanted to prevent people from realizing their full potential (just as he kicked Adam and Eve from the garden to prevent them from living forever.)

"And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth."

Mike said "This sentence reveals the arrogance of the people of Babel. they sought a name for themselves rather then to honor the name of their creator, who is above all and whose name is worthy of all praise."

So, the people were united, peacefully and working toward a common goal that wasn't a sycophantic genuflect...and God calls this arrogant and decides to ensure that people have to struggle through thousands of years of divisiveness, learning these languages, fighting over the confusion and can only hope that if they're ever united again, this God won't take offense.

Great plan, God! You're #1!

"God's gentleness in judging the rebels at Babel is a lesson for us today."

It certainly is. It demonstrates that even the "gentleness" of this god ultimately serves to promote divisiveness, servility and confrontation.

God did not let man's rebellion run its full course

...thereby countering the free will he'd like us to pretend we have. Much in the way that he directly violated Pharoah's free will, hardening his heart and forcing him to refuse to release the Israelites (so he could show off some of his most terrifying magic tricks).

He nipped the rebellion in early stages so that humans would not hurt themselves too much.

Hmm, so he confounded languages, sowed divisiveness and confrontation throughout the world, instead of letting the cooperative society continue to work together - and it was all so we wouldn't hurt ourselves too much?

God stepped in to prevent the human race from falling under the sway of single, absolute tyrant over all the earth.

Actually, that should be "under the sway of ANY OTHER absolute tyrant". Your God is a jealous god, and hates competition.

As the original creator of human speech, God could easily rewire speech so that the evil speakers could no longer speak to one another.

And yet, we're perfectly capable of working out translations and speaking multiple languages, thereby thwarting this cosmic genius' plans again.

By this simple act, God forced humanity to proceed down His chosen path-to resettle the earth by families.

Proving that we have no free will in the system you accept. God dictates, we do and if we almost manage to thwart his plans while he's napping, he'll come down, fuck some people up and get everything back on track.

God wants us to turn to Him, rather then relying on ourselves.

And he's doing such a bang up job of demonstrating why we should.

This is just one of a seven part exploration of the Bible that I will present to all of you explaining the need for God and understanding His plan.

Just to for the sake of irony, I'm praying that you don't post the other 6 parts.

I will be there for the April 6th show.

I'm pretty sure this was a joke, but just in case:

No, you won't. Get your own show, I'd rather not piss of our listeners by allowing your pathetic apologetics any more time than a single phone call.

However, you're welcome to call - just like everyone else.

Lastly:

It reminded me of what Matt D said yesterday "Your god, if he exists isn't worthy of worship."

A statement I stand by - and your own posts only add support to this position.

>my heart aches still. (If) That Bible is true, all these people that follow your same thought process Martin will be in a horrific place forever.

My heart aches when I think of how many people are living in fear (and infecting their children with it) needlessly, simply because they have been drilled to believe in something fearful, but for which there is no compelling, objectively verifiable evidence.

Instilling children with false fear and paranoid distrust, telling them they are depraved through and through, and that they aren’t capable of self-reliance, of making even the slightest successful move or decision in their lives without a mental security blanket wrapped around them to keep them safe, and then telling them it’s all our of love for them, for their own good, that you’re doing this to them is nothing I could ever respect. It’s no different than calling a child stupid and worthless every day. And who wouldn’t consider that poor parenting—if not outright emotionally abusive?

And by the way, I don't see how this discussion goes on since there was, some time ago, a question of "what would it take to get you to believe in god," and I think there was pretty fair consensus that existence was direct manifestation, achieved repeatably, through objectively verifiable means.

Did I miss where that was provided? Or did we just drop that and go back to arguing over something that still has not been shown to exist?

Why is this conversation continuing, I have to ask, while the criteria for showing the object under discussion exists has still not been met. Shouldn't that be the first order of business since Dan is back on the blog?

Let me ask you tracieh are you one that believes that building up self esteem in a child is better then teaching them about Hell? Do you really believe that you are better at teaching then the Creator of the Universe? Are you serious(?)

Again it comes down to trusting God that He knows how to teach/raise or trusting in people like tracieh that she knows more then God. I will stick with God for now, thanks. Either people are fallible and God is infallible or tracieh is right, you all can choose. I have made my choice.

Let me ask you tracieh are you one that believes that building up self esteem in a child is better then teaching them about Hell? Do you really believe that you are better at teaching then the Creator of the Universe? Are you serious(?)

What kind of question is that? Honestly Dan, every time you post, I'd swear your IQ drops another 80 points. You're beyond negative integers now, into the realm of imaginary numbers.

Seriously, this is like asking, "Do you honestly believe that raising up a child to be loved and respected as a human being is better than to engage in a ruthless campaign of psychological terrorism designed to break down their emotional well-being and turn them into bipolar, maladjusted mental wrecks, frightened even to think a single thought that contradicts the received dogma for fear of eternal torture? Are you serious!?"

Yes, we do think building self-esteem in a child (as a thing that must be earned through achievements and character) is better than filling their heads with false fears of a nonexistent hell, which is fundamentally no different then child abuse.

People are also better at teaching children than the "Creator of the Universe," because there is no such thing as this "Creator of the Universe" that you believe in. Furthermore, the doctrine of Hell singlehandedly condemns Christianity as a deeply immoral belief system, because it proves Christianity can only compel loyalty through fear, as there are no verifiable facts to support its grandiose claims.

See Dan, this is the bit you are too unintelligent to understand. We've been trying to explain this extremely basic point to you for nearly a full year now, and your incurable stupidity has never allowed it to sink in. To wit: You think you can come here and persuade us with non-arguments that amount to nothing more than "Hell! Boo scary!" and "God this, God that," without ever establishing that either of these two things exist. You're putting the cart before the horse...over and over and over again.

I know you can neither read nor think well, but go and read Kazim's latest post on "the Star Trek Rule," so that your tiny, tiny, tiny mind might comprehend the concept of the necessity of establishing the existence of the thing you're arguing for, instead of simply taking it as a given, when you try to talk to those who don't take it as a given.

I have made my choice.

That's great, Dan. So how about taking a long walk down a short pier and leaving everyone else well alone?

One of the things that drove me away from Christianity was the realization that it was ridiculous to believe that my life on this planet is just a test so that some supreme being can determine whether or not I will suffer for eternity in the after life, with the primary criterion being whether or not I believe that the aforesaid supreme being impregnated a virgin Jewish teenage girl in the Galilee some 2,000 years ago and that the superboy that resulted from the union died for me and rose from the dead. Am I missing anything?

If it exists and you're representative of the product of his teaching - he gets an 'F'.

If God exists, he must be shaking his head wondering why only the least intelligent and dysfunctional of his human creations tend to be the ones eager to believe in and slavishly worship him. Somehow, something's not working. :-)

"If sinners are converted by the intellect (the wisdom of men), they will fall away by the intellect. If they are merely argued into the faith, they will just as easily be argued out of it whenever a respected scholar reports that 'the bones of Jesus" have been found. However if sinners are converted by "the power of God," they will be kept by the power of God. No intellectual argument will cause them to waver because they will know the life-changing reality of their conversion,"

If you really need I can back it up with a tremendous amount of scripture. lol

BTW I knew you were a fan of the deceitful self esteem movement and it answers a great number of questions I have had about you.

Knowing that you don't have any children, I wonder how your future kids will turn out when you tell them they are great when actually they aren't. I tell my children the truth good or bad, I don't fill their heads with things that will push them towards self grandeur, that is where the self esteem movement people such as yourself will fail their kids.

"Yes, we do think building self-esteem in a child (as a thing that must be earned through achievements and character) is better than filling their heads with false fears"

You just contradicted the self esteem movement.

The article I linked to said "It seems that a growing body of research indicates that the self-esteem movement, which argued for praising intelligence rather than effort, may be hurting the kids it claims to help."

If you care to see the destructiveness of the self esteem movement look at the woman that tells their child, after an American Idol audition, "Don't listen to those judges, that have over 30 year experience in the industry, when they said your singing was like scratching a chalk board. You sing wonderfully and you are the best no matter what anyone says. You are so smart, now sing to mama, again." Now that is a form of child abuse and I feel sorry for your (future) children, if you find someone that can love that little angry man inside of you. I hope you do, do you?

The article nailed even you Martin, square on the head, if you can humble yourself to actually listen to good advice

"(Highly aggressive, violent people happen to think very highly of themselves, debunking the theory that people are aggressive to make up for low self-esteem.)"

Does it really matter how intelligent a child rapist is if he is raping children? He will be punished no matter how many degrees he has on the wall. Your intellect is flawed and God made sure of that. You must submit to God to understand. For your sake I hope you do someday.

If they are merely argued into the faith, they will just as easily be argued out of it whenever a respected scholar reports that 'the bones of Jesus" have been found.

Um... if the bones of Jesus actually are found, doesn't that mean that Jesus didn't rise from the dead, so isn't dropping Christianity the right thing to do?

Or are you saying that skeptics and atheists can be swayed into believing anything by any smooth talker with a set of letters after his name? If so, allow me to present a few counterexamples: Francis Collins, Ken Miller, and C.S. Lewis, to name but a few. Heck, I'll throw in William Dembski, Michael Behe, and Jonathan Wells for free. They're all believers (in the past tense, in Lewis's case), and all have written about God.

The reason they haven't convinced us is not that they lack degrees, but rather that they haven't presented any evidence.

I've got $50 that says that when that respected scholar shows up and says he's found the bones of Jesus, the first question on Martin's lips will be "Oh yeah? What evidence does he have?"

You just contradicted the self esteem movement.

Let's say she has. So what?

Do you think tracieh has pledged allegiance to "the self esteem movement" and feels obligated to agree with it in everything, on pain of excommunication? From what little I know of her, she seems quite capable of thinking for herself.

If sinners are converted by the intellect (the wisdom of men), they will fall away by the intellect. If they are merely argued into the faith, they will just as easily be argued out of it whenever a respected scholar reports that 'the bones of Jesus" have been found....

Blah blah blah...all of which is merely an admission that your beliefs lack intellectual rigor (let alone any intellectual content), and are merely appeals to emotion: thus not worth anyone's time.

Actually I didn't forget the last time you trotted that one out, Dan. (And the fact that you think this point is some kind of respectable argument for Christianity borders on absurdist comedy.) Having dealt with you for nearly a year, all of us here know that your S.O.P. is to come here and parrot the same non-arguments time and again no matter how often we torpedo them. You're basically firing blanks, and have been for ages.

You just contradicted the self esteem movement.

The article I linked to said "It seems that a growing body of research indicates that the self-esteem movement, which argued for praising intelligence rather than effort, may be hurting the kids it claims to help."

Well, doofus, if you had paused to think before typing away, obviously you should have reached the conclusion that, if my views contradict those of some established "self esteem movement," then obviously, that means my views on the subject of self-esteem are more realistic and sensible than those of this silly "movement," and were not meant to support or reinforce said "movement" in the first place. Right? Like, duh.

I mean, that should have been obvious, considering that I never once mentioned anywhere in my post that I was a proponent of any "self-esteem movement" that foolishly encourages the building of unearned self-esteem.

Not sure why this confused you. Perhaps, since you never come up with your own arguments, it throws you off when I and other people here do. Like so many fundies, you think in black-and-white, shallow terms. Either someone supports the "hellfire and brimstone" Christian authoritarian approach to parenting, or they subscribe to some mealy-mouthed, limp-wristed New Agey "self esteem" "movement." That intelligent people might be freethinkers, who reach conclusions about things on their own through reason, doesn't even show up on your radar. As always, your intellectual limitations trip you up.

Knowing that you don't have any children, I wonder how your future kids will turn out when you tell them they are great when actually they aren't.

Well, based on what I've just explained to you, obviously, if I had kids and they were being bad, I wouldn't tell them they were great, would I? So there you go.

Seriously, Dan, anyone with 6th grade reading skills ought to have understood me. You'll have to try to do better and read what I and others write more carefully next time, so as to avoid building such embarrassing straw men.

PS: As much as I think unearned "self esteem" is a bogus thing to teach kids, it's still infinitely less abusive than psychologically terrorizing them with threats of eternal torture after death.

PLEASE NOTE: The Atheist Experience has moved to a new location, and this blog is now closed to comments. To participate in future discussions, please visit http://www.freethoughtblogs.com/axp.

This blog encourages believers who disagree with us to comment. However, anonymous comments are disallowed to weed out cowardly flamers who hide behind anonymity. Commenters will only be banned when they've demonstrated they're nothing more than trolls whose behavior is intentionally offensive to the blog's readership.

Email policy

All emails sent to the program at the tv[at]atheist-community[dot]org address become the property of the ACA, and the desire for a reply is assumed. Note that this reply could take the form of a public response on the show or here on the blog. In those cases, we will never include the correspondent's address, but will include names unless we deem it inappropriate. If you absolutely do not wish for us to address your email publicly, please include a note to that effect (like "private response only" or "not for publication" or "if you post this on the blog please don't use my name") somewhere in the letter.

Google Analytics script

Subscribe To

AE and Related Sites

PLEASE NOTE: The Atheist Experience has moved to a new location, and this blog is now closed to comments. To participate in future discussions, please visit http://www.freethoughtblogs.com/axp.The Atheist Experience is a weekly live call-in television show sponsored by the Atheist Community of Austin. This independently-run blog (not sponsored by the ACA) features contributions from current and former hosts and co-hosts of the show.