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Back to the BS2 discusion. Sa finished the game, with what I think was the "good" ending, decided to replay it again, this time doing the "evil" stuff and trying to use drill + plasmids only. I was just wondering do the effects from gene tonics stack. For example if I have that drill damage tonic at level 1 and 2, do the effects stack or is it only the level 2 tonic that i get the bonus from? I don't remember which way was it in first game and not sure how to test it, so maybe someone knows the answer.

Back to the BS2 discusion. Sa finished the game, with what I think was the "good" ending, decided to replay it again, this time doing the "evil" stuff and trying to use drill + plasmids only. I was just wondering do the effects from gene tonics stack. For example if I have that drill damage tonic at level 1 and 2, do the effects stack or is it only the level 2 tonic that i get the bonus from? I don't remember which way was it in first game and not sure how to test it, so maybe someone knows the answer.

AFAIK, the tonic effects still stack like in the first game. And from what I've been reading, the combo of drill plus ice attacks seems to be pretty devastating - I don't know firsthand; I didn't get the ice plasmid on my first playthrough. Big Daddy research will give you a whopping melee bonus. That I know for sure.

On my second playthrough too. Not doing melee only, but I'm going the Evil Bastard route.

freeze + all drill tonics + full research gives you fountain of youth (health/eve recovery under waterfalls) - which makes bossfights so easy, you practically recharge all the time, gives you armored shell2 which lets you take numerous machinegun shots to the chest and other stuff. I pretty much 1-hit kill every splicer and 4hit kill every brute/daddy. it's also totally easy to kill a big sister with freeze + drill (just don't shatter her or you loose the adam) so research is again overpowered but regarding to the amount of enemies they send your way it's ok. I am actually replaying the game which I did not with BS1. I can't understand the "direct2dvd" feel some ppl are proclaiming this game has.

Thanks for the answers. So far I'm mostly using zap and whack technique, decided to spend my adam on some tonics and plasmids I didn't try in my first run (decoy, hypnotize, trap), will try freeze later. I've already got that bonus for researching Big Dadies and Brute Splicers (I guess research is easier when you use the drill and electricity, I'm mostly getting A+, already finished the research on two basic splicer types in the same level you get the camera), but it's a shame that one interesting tonic, Drill Vampire, is reward for 4th level research on Big Sisters, so I can't get it till late in the game.

Maybe because I know the game better from my first playthrough, but it's a lot easier using the drill. I don't have to worry about ammo (not that's a big deal in this game), but also I don't have to worry about changing between weapons and their ammo, so I'm using plasmids a lot more.

EDIT: I forgot for which research is fountain of youth tonic the reward. Actually is there a list of all the tonics you can buy/find/research, because I want to know if I missed anything the first time and is there a point in researching certain enemies all the way.

you can see under "research" in the ingame menue which rewards you get for which splicer and how far you got. "armored shell 2" is for brutes, "fountain" is for spider splicers I think. and big sisters research aint that hard, you get (at least) one per level and you can specifically arm the "research" tonics beforehand to get more out of the research. it's also better to pump her full of everything the first few seconds, then just retreat and kill her "normally" or better said: resource-friendlier. and I rarely use up drill fuel, you just need whack and the drill dash. drill dash is one-hit kill on all normal splicers and uses up almost no fuel

The point from the beginning was that in order for these types of games to be made, they gotta be commercially viable. It's been done now.

Bisoshock wasn't just commercially viably, it was specifically made to be a money cow.

I wonder how Japanese f.e. seem always to release continuation for good games even if they weren't exactly 'commercially viable' by western standards. F.e. Siren 1, which I about to finish soon, it's the most hard, unfriendly, hardcore and non-compromise game I've ever played, something totally opposite to Bioshock's approach, it got about 65-70% from critics mainly for its hardcore/unfriendly nature, however, they released Siren 2 (but not in the USA ) and Siren NT for PS3, as well as OSTs and art books. I only can assume that Siren was commercially viable, perhaps not by western standards but still, even though it was much more hard and inapprehensible game than SS2.

you can see under "research" in the ingame menue which rewards you get for which splicer and how far you got

Yes, I know about that, but that only tells you the name of the tonic. For example, Arms Race, which you get for researching Big Daddies all the way, sound like an interesting tonic, but it's not that great and of no use for drill only playthrough (OK, it's not really drill only, but it's easier to write that).
You can't see what it does. that's whats I'm after. For example, I wanna see if I should research security (which I didn't do the first time) or is it better just to hack it.
Also I think I missed some tonics. I read somewhere that you get a tonic if you follow that teleporting tonic all the way, which I didn't do last time.

About researching Big Sisters, last time I had all those researcing tonics equiped all the time, and still that was the last enemy I completed research on. I think you need to research atlest 5-6 of them to finish.

Re: Researching Security - It's very easy; it works with hacking. Just start filming a bot, camera or turret and then hack it... directly, or with a hack dart - doesn't matter, if you get the hack on film, then you get credit. Doesn't have to be a hostile target either - if the splicers set off an alarm, then go and research/hack the neutral bots that appear.

The Deadly Machines tonic is well worth it - any bots or turrets you control do extra damage. Combine that with Hardy Machines, Handyman and Security Command 3... powerful stuff.

The notion that BS would open the mainstream market up for sophisticated gameplay has by-n-large succeeded. BS2 has flashes from the thiefy past. Irrational is working on their big new project. Bethesda's going ahead with New Vegas off of their success with FO3. But most important is that we've got titles in the big leagues now to point at for the publishers, rather than simply art-house phenons. The point from the beginning was that in order for these types of games to be made, they gotta be commercially viable. It's been done now.

I'd put Mass Effect as a much larger precursor to something like Fallout 3's success, and Bioshock had nothing to do with that. It's perhaps narrowing the field too much for the point, but what immersive sim-y games have come out since B1 or are in development for consoles? The closest I can think of is Far Cry 2 and that's nearly as tangential a relation as B1 itself.

Anyway. In all this I can't really tell if the Jordan Thomas factor is really in evidence in the game. I know he may not have done much direct design but are there any well structured areas or sequences that recall Fort Frolic or The Cradle? Anybody?

Anyway. In all this I can't really tell if the Jordan Thomas factor is really in evidence in the game. I know he may not have done much direct design but are there any well structured areas or sequences that recall Fort Frolic or The Cradle? Anybody?

No, I'd have to say there's not much that recalls Fort Frolic or Cradle in this one. There's a part of one area that could be seen as a small homage to Shalebridge, and there are some other sequences that seem to have JT's mark on them, but as far as JT's particular "brand" of creepy ambience goes, there's no main area that's like that through and through. Unfortunate, perhaps, but that's not to say that there aren't any well structured areas or sequences.

There are areas that are creepy in their own way, although you don't get to them until late in the game.

I agree that I didn't see any obvious "hints" of JD but regarding the myriad of studios in the intro I am amazed it managed to stay cohesive. I replayed it 2 times which is saying alot. the ending/last levels have a far bigger impact than any of the ones in BS1, I was touched by the sister/daughter mechanics very much and I had the impression that I had much more impact on the shape of events than just 2 different ending movies. while nothing in the game stands out it manages to get better/more pressing/harder with each level and maintain that drive. having the little sisters on your back makes the connection much stronger than just Harvest/Rescue in BS1 and I just love their little taunts: "look daddy, he's dancing, dancing !" good game, no doubt.

My first impression of this game was really bad, but my god this is great. The levels remind me more of Thief than they do the first Bioshock (not that there's much in the way of stealth, but exploring is genuinely fun and can lead to some interesting audio logs and scripted seqeuences) and the battles are often really amazing. The corpse-harvesting is just ridiculous in certain areas. I just harvested one in a fairly open area near a friendly security camera, while I had a bunch of auto turrets and trap rivets scattered around, 8 incinerate/cyclone trap combos, and a couple friendly bots hovering about. Couple that with duel wielding lightning and a gun that sets people on fire and you're looking at total hilarity. Splicers getting mowed down by a half dozen automated defenses, getting sliced by traps, and flying through the air on fucking fire. Awesome. I think if there's any disappointment in the combat, it's how lame the Big Daddy/Big Sister fights seem when you've just spent 5 minutes mowing down a never-ending wave of cannon fodder.

I like the first Bioshock, but this blows it away in pretty much every conceivable way. More varied and intense combat, better atmosphere, more interesting environments, and a story that, at least to this point, seems a bit less predictable. I'm not sure what people are going on about with the "feels like an expansion pack" nonsense, if I hadn't just finished a few playthroughs of ME2 I'd say this is about as good as a same-engine sequel can be.

my favorite is cyclone trap with insect swarm/fire and a bunch of trapbolts. first they get launched off, then they land complaining about the bees or fire, go near the water where I placed the trapwires and zaaaaaap. in another level I was just standing in a swimmingpool and constantly zapped the water while recharging eve through the fountain tonic.

I'm surprised by how much better this is than the first game. I'm still playing it, for fark's sake.

While it does tend to make things a bit too easy, I like how they've facilitated a "summoner" style approach in this game. Once you have Hypnotize 2 and Security Command 2, you can summon 2 bots and conscript a splicer to follow you around. Throw in Insect Swarm, and you have some really good scouts to boot.

This is good fun for the gather sequences though... sit back, watch everything get shot, stung and blasted with Houdini fireballs.

Although whats really off putting was on the steam forums people going on about how it had taken them 2 hours to beat the game on the xbox, it makes the game feel so very short. You really want a game to last 3 or 4 days, but two hours it just isnt worth the money.

Quit talking bollocks, the game certainly isn't as short as 2 hours. I spent at least 20 hours playing it - that was on Hard, with Vitas disabled and I tried to explore every nook and cranny.

my friend is known for not reading and exploring anything in a game ( he equipped the drill tonic and complained that the game takes away your weapons for 2 levels, lol, he just didn't realize when he armed or disarmed the tonic so he thought it was plot-related, hihi) and ran through the game without any big sister fights besides the one in DionysusPark (where you have to harvest/rescue all 3 sisters) and it took him 10-12 he said. I'm replaying it on hard now and although I know every level and scripted event by heart now it still takes time to do all those glorious "I'll just hide and watch" scenarios. Nothing beats standing behind a little sister watching her suck the juices out, the camouflage tonic hiding you from view and the splicers fighting each other and my traps and bots.

The last 3 games I've played have been Mass Effect 2, Bioshock 2, and Arkham Asylum, and all 3 were so good they made my head explode. I dunno what's going on lately, but it seems like some companies are really starting to pound out great games for the first time in forever.

yes, I must really say that I wasn't that entertained by games in a long time, even in different, new ways. now bring on witcher2. dare I say it, maybe Dx3 won't suck that hard. well, there's always vaporware mafia2 which was pushed back again to make my day in the coming autumn.