didn't watch the video, but I'm a total advocate of the Harm Reduction plan in controlling the effects of drugs. If we examine similar situations in similar locations such as Vancouver, we can see how effective it is in preventing the spread of HIV and other bloodborne illnesses, unecessary incarceration and strain on the economy, etc. I could talk all day about this shiznit.

There's some progress on this front going on in California(only on this front though in California).Prop 19 in California

Here is a video of Milton Friedman detailing the reasons why the drug war should be ended, my favorite part of this is when he acknowledges that there may be more drug users if they are legal. However, a drug user isn't an innocent victim, whereas a kid killed in a driveby shooting in a turf war is an innocent victim. He says it better than me, except he is so old and white he calls it a passby shooting.YouTube- Milton Friedman - Why Drugs Should Be Legalized

There's some progress on this front going on in California(only on this front though in California).Prop 19 in California

Here is a video of Milton Friedman detailing the reasons why the drug war should be ended, my favorite part of this is when he acknowledges that there may be more drug users if they are legal. However, a drug user isn't an innocent victim, whereas a kid killed in a driveby shooting in a turf war is an innocent victim. He says it better than me, except he is so old and white he calls it a passby shooting.YouTube- Milton Friedman - Why Drugs Should Be Legalized

I have been following Prop 19 pretty closely. I hope it passes. The rest of the country will be forced to crumble. California will hit new waves of tourism, and it will be to hard to border the weed, so it would be easily transported out of the state. If states are getting more mj in their state, they mine as well be making tax money from it.

I am afraid that Obama might be re elected for the same reason he made it the 1st time.
Can not remember who said The people will allways get the gov they DESERVE.
I tend to agree.
Hopefully one day enough people will wake up and elect some one like Mr. Ron Paul.

I am afraid that Obama might be re elected for the same reason he made it the 1st time.
Can not remember who said The people will allways get the gov they DESERVE.
I tend to agree.
Hopefully one day enough people will wake up and elect some one like Mr. Ron Paul.

Me and my Dad hit heads viciously when it comes to Politics, but we both would like to see Ron Paul as a serious candidate. Unfortunately, we both agree on one thing.

His ideas are great, may seem a bit radical in some regards, but great foundation for politics. However, he comes off as a bit looney at times. He becomes so impassionate in what he is talking about (good thing), but some times it overcomes his emotions, and he appears a bit off. This is something I think that interferes with him gaining American trust.

I really hope that he will make another run at President. I think he is truely what we need. The problem that is going to happen with CA is that state law can't superseed federal. Now if we can get Ron Paul as President... Problem solved.

I have been following Prop 19 pretty closely. I hope it passes. The rest of the country will be forced to crumble. California will hit new waves of tourism, and it will be to hard to border the weed, so it would be easily transported out of the state. If states are getting more mj in their state, they mine as well be making tax money from it.

I hope so too. I want all the hippies, weed obsessed dregs of society, and degenerates to move there (more than the usual batch). That said, legalizing all drugs, like coke, heroin, and ecstasy is a hilariously bad idea.

That said, legalizing all drugs, like coke, heroin, and ecstasy is a hilariously bad idea.

why? why is it hilariously a bad idea?

나는 2000년 10월 매들린 올브라이트 전 미 국무장관 매들린 사랑, 그 중 한 뜨거운 젠장!

07-31-2010, 09:21 PM

lutherblsstt

Originally Posted by TexasTitan

I hope so too. I want all the hippies, weed obsessed dregs of society, and degenerates to move there (more than the usual batch). That said, legalizing all drugs, like coke, heroin, and ecstasy is a hilariously bad idea.

I hope so too. I want all the hippies, weed obsessed dregs of society, and degenerates to move there (more than the usual batch). That said, legalizing all drugs, like coke, heroin, and ecstasy is a hilariously bad idea.

Before I state my opinion on the matter, I would love to see you justify your comment.

Ron Paul is one of the few politicians who wants to preserve the true spirit of America and for that I applaud him

I'd like to see everything decriminalized. And a lot of things legalized. Mainly weed and steroids. Hey i think prostitution should be OK too. Weed, roids and hookers, man you are set.

I support the same thing. Decriminalization across the board and legalization in for certain things. Focus our drug war money on abuse prevention and recovery, rather then filling a jail cell.

I love conservatives that consider themselves "fiscally conservative" but are pro drug war. Do you know how much of your tax dollars go towards keeping a kid in jail who sold some weed to his buddies?!?!

...especially when we all know prohibition does not and never has worked. The US admitted fault when people like Capone were shooting up people in the streets to get people their prohibited vice (alcohol), but cant admit fault when our countries law counters the demand for these drugs, and we have not only violence in our country, but near war like violence in others to feed the demand.

Yes, legalization of marj is a not a good idea. I'm a probation officer so I see the damage. Some have this theory that there are drug users that are not hurting anyone and should not go to jail. Well most are violent drug users. We actually tried a program to take drug users only with no violent crimes and give them treatment. Well they had to open the door violent crimes too because they did not have enough people in the program to justify having the program. They had to stop violating the drug users to show the program as a success because treatment does not work. Yes, continued drug use and new misd, and felonys were still considered a success.
As far as costs of locking them up. Tent city costs very little.

Yes, legalization of marj is a not a good idea. I'm a probation officer so I see the damage. Some have this theory that there are drug users that are not hurting anyone and should not go to jail. Well most are violent drug users. We actually tried a program to take drug users only with no violent crimes and give them treatment. Well they had to open the door violent crimes too because they did not have enough people in the program to justify having the program. They had to stop violating the drug users to show the program as a success because treatment does not work. Yes, continued drug use and new misd, and felonys were still considered a success.
As far as costs of locking them up. Tent city costs very little.

but marijuana is illegal, and widely used. the point is making it illegal wont stop anybody from doing it.

this supports drug dealers and puts alot of cash in their pockets. we could be putting the money into the system for scientific research to cure diseases such as cancer, and also putting the money into drug education and better rehab programs.

legalizing drugs isnt about getting people to do drugs. i dont do drugs, i dont even drink alcohol, never ever. im the straightest you can get not including bodybuilding supplements (lol). i know if drugs were legal i still wouldnt do it, but the fact is i can walk into town and find most drugs easily available but that doesnt mean my accessibility will cause me to try it. something isnt working here with the war on drugs.

Yes, legalization of marj is a not a good idea. I'm a probation officer so I see the damage. Some have this theory that there are drug users that are not hurting anyone and should not go to jail. Well most are violent drug users. We actually tried a program to take drug users only with no violent crimes and give them treatment. Well they had to open the door violent crimes too because they did not have enough people in the program to justify having the program. They had to stop violating the drug users to show the program as a success because treatment does not work. Yes, continued drug use and new misd, and felonys were still considered a success.
As far as costs of locking them up. Tent city costs very little.

I am going to highly (no pun - I am at work) disagree.

Marijuana does not, and never has, caused violence. Numerous organizations have come out to say this, including government bodies and police officials.

You situation seems to not be the norm, but is no different then saying Bernie Madoff drank milk, so milk has a correlation to financial crime. Have you smoked pot? I couldn't imagine being in a fight while high, much less stronger violence.

BTW, stating drug use is linked to violence and marijuana is linked to violence should be two different things. Also, if we are going to strictly consider a precurser to violence, I would love to see the numbers of violent crimes, particularly domestic violence, commited while under the influence of alcohol.

I support the same thing. Decriminalization across the board and legalization in for certain things. Focus our drug war money on abuse prevention and recovery, rather then filling a jail cell.

I love conservatives that consider themselves "fiscally conservative" but are pro drug war. Do you know how much of your tax dollars go towards keeping a kid in jail who sold some weed to his buddies?!?!

Yes, legalization of marj is a not a good idea. I'm a probation officer so I see the damage. Some have this theory that there are drug users that are not hurting anyone and should not go to jail. Well most are violent drug users.

Bro, I live in Vancouver. If that were the case then some 20% of the city would be violent criminals.

Originally Posted by wastedwhiteboy2

As far as costs of locking them up. Tent city costs very little.

Just like the cost of a death sentence needs only be $0.79 for the bullet? Sorry not that simple...

I have spent a few months in Netherlands and gotta tell you, there is barely any disturbance around their "coffeeshops" (places where dutch smoke weed) a lot different from bars and other places where alcohol served. Even though I am not a user, I'd say legalize the mj.

Before I state my opinion on the matter, I would love to see you justify your comment.

Okay naive morons. Go spend some time around rehab clinics. Go watch crack heads steal anything for money. Watch a heroin addict shoot up behind an alley. Watch a coke head freak out when they need a fix. Go watch someone suck **** to get more acid. Ive seen all of these in person, save for the acid, I wasnt actually watching. You are all ****ing idiots who have no concept of what people are getting into. You want to legalize this ****? Fine. Pay for their rehab, tell the kids to just say no. Tell them heroin needs to be used responsibly. I mean, since the government seems to want to have the rich pay for all our healthcare, why not put all the rehab stays and treatment for these people? Its not their fault! What would be the harm in introducing highly addictive substances into a society where excess and hedonism are the cornerstones of our contemporary culture? You want to pay for someones rehab stay(s)? Fine, my tax dollars wont. Legalizing drugs going well is a ****ing pipe dream. I love yalls attitudes. "You know what America needs!?! More legal addictive drugs! NOW!" It cracks me up that California is campaigning to ban smoking cigarettes and is trying to legalize weed, among other things. Just lol.

Okay naive morons. Go spend some time around rehab clinics. Go watch crack heads steal anything for money. Watch a heroin addict shoot up behind an alley. Watch a coke head freak out when they need a fix. Go watch someone suck **** to get more acid. Ive seen all of these in person, save for the acid, I wasnt actually watching. You are all ****ing idiots who have no concept of what people are getting into. You want to legalize this ****? Fine. Pay for their rehab, tell the kids to just say no. Tell them heroin needs to be used responsibly. I mean, since the government seems to want to have the rich pay for all our healthcare, why not put all the rehab stays and treatment for these people? Its not their fault! What would be the harm in introducing highly addictive substances into a society where excess and hedonism are the cornerstones of our contemporary culture? You want to pay for someones rehab stay(s)? Fine, my tax dollars wont. Legalizing drugs going well is a ****ing pipe dream. I love yalls attitudes. "You know what America needs!?! More legal addictive drugs! NOW!" It cracks me up that California is campaigning to ban smoking cigarettes and is trying to legalize weed, among other things. Just lol.

Okay naive morons. Go spend some time around rehab clinics. Go watch crack heads steal anything for money. Watch a heroin addict shoot up behind an alley. Watch a coke head freak out when they need a fix. Go watch someone suck **** to get more acid. Ive seen all of these in person, save for the acid, I wasnt actually watching. You are all ****ing idiots who have no concept of what people are getting into. You want to legalize this ****? Fine. Pay for their rehab, tell the kids to just say no. Tell them heroin needs to be used responsibly. I mean, since the government seems to want to have the rich pay for all our healthcare, why not put all the rehab stays and treatment for these people? Its not their fault! What would be the harm in introducing highly addictive substances into a society where excess and hedonism are the cornerstones of our contemporary culture? You want to pay for someones rehab stay(s)? Fine, my tax dollars wont. Legalizing drugs going well is a ****ing pipe dream. I love yalls attitudes. "You know what America needs!?! More legal addictive drugs! NOW!" It cracks me up that California is campaigning to ban smoking cigarettes and is trying to legalize weed, among other things. Just lol.

Once again, as anytime you try to involve yourself in a discussion, you come off as completely uninformed.

"Okay naive morons." - Funny, when I originally asked you for your opinion, I had typed "Immature response in 5...4....3....2...1...", but I erased it because I figured I would give you a chance as coming off as an adult. My trust in people always bites me. But then again, me and you have been at this point before.

Although other drugs were mentioned in this thread, this thread is about marijuana, and more specifically Prop 19 became a focus in discussion. Please inform me of how many people you have seen "sucking ****" for marijuana. I think we all know this doesnt happen

It simply didnt happen. With the price drop that would inevitably come from legalization, it would be even further from the point of someone becoming that desperate for a hit of a drug that is only shown to be addictive through habitual means, no different then someone who insists on smelling food before eating it. THC, or Tetrahydrocannabinol, which is the active canninoid in the marijuana plant, contains no properties leading to a physical addiction, as seen in drugs such as nicotine and hydrocodone.

But you know, those who smoke pot are really just going to slowly move towards crack cocaine and heroin. I mean pot is a gateway drug. Again, not so much.

"While the gateway theory has enjoyed popular acceptance, scientists have always had their doubts," said lead researcher Andrew Morral, associate director of RAND's Public Safety and Justice unit. "Our study shows that these doubts are justified." [Unlike your random ranting, here is a source]

Patterns in progression of drug use from adolescence to adulthood are strikingly regular. Because it is the most widely used illicit drug, marijuana is predictably the first illicit drug most people encounter. Not surprisingly, most users of other illicit drugs have used marijuana first. In fact, most drug users begin with alcohol and nicotine before marijuana -- usually before they are of legal age.
…
There is no conclusive evidence that the drug effects of marijuana are causally linked to the subsequent abuse of other illicit drugs. [Again, Source'd]

Well now that we settled that, we must address the other problems with marijuana we know are true. I think we should attack the core of the problem here. We all know marijuana eats at your brain and is the leading cause of death in america. Oh man, thats not true either? But my parents and the government told me it is!?! Why do people lie to me?

"Although the use of [marijuana] is not harmless, the current knowledge base does not support the assertion that it has any notable adverse public health impact in relation to mortality," Sidney concludes [Yay, even WebMD is more informed then you]

2.The DEA's Administrative Law Judge, Francis Young concluded: "In strict medical terms marijuana is far safer than many foods we commonly consume. For example, eating 10 raw potatoes can result in a toxic response. By comparison, it is physically impossible to eat enough marijuana to induce death. Marijuana in its natural form is one of the safest therapeutically active substances known to man. By any measure of rational analysis marijuana can be safely used within the supervised routine of medical care." [Clearly this quote came from a pot smoking liberal, right? Nope... THIS IS FROM THE DEA]

Yet, Despite this long history of use and extraordinarily high numbers of social smokers, there are simply no credible medical reports to suggest that marijuana has caused a single death [Same Source-DEA]

Oh man, again I can't get over how much I have been lied to. I wonder what other things we have been lied to about.

Also please don't comment on the amount of children who visit rehab for marijuana addiction. We all know they took that option over jail time when they were caught. This is like saying every driver who received a speeding ticket and went to driving school really needs to relearn how to drive. Its a moot argument.

You are anti-governmental control of health care. General arguments for this include the high cost to the upper class (which based on your intelligence level I hope you are not a part of, but you might be upset about daddy's money being taxed before hitting that trust fund). I agree, the health care reform will not be cheap, and rather than get into that argument, lets leave it there. But, why not create an industry here in United States, that would create numerous jobs for our country, from seed experts, to growing, to cultivating, to preparation, to distribution, to retail, while at the same time receiving a very large tax benefit for the country, which might, oh no don't say it, help support health care in the united states. Other arguments for the health reform is that the government should not be in control of your health and make decisions for you receiving care. Why is it then that they should be able to tell you how to use your body, experience your body, and live your life? Especially when it becomes no risk to oneself? Sounds like a big government rule to me.

Lets also look at marijuana scheduling, shall we? It is schedule I drug. That means its bad, really really bad. Or does it? Really a schedule I drug is a drug the DEA believes to be addictive and harmful, with no medicinal benefit. Because we all know that marijuana has shown to have no medicinal benefit. Oh damn, again, I think we have been mislead:

Alright, so the government doesnt agree that there is a medicinal benefit to marijuana. Fine, if they really don't think it is a medicine, then maybe we should follow their logic. Whats that? I believe the government does believe in medicinal marijuana? Why do I believe that? Because they approved a patent for marijuana to be used for medicinal reasons [PATENT 6630507]. God I love the government.

For additional information, Cocaine/Crack is a schedule II drug, indicating that cocaine has medicinal benefits. But lets not recognize marijuana to have the same benefits.

I also am not going to even get started on the Alcohol vs. Marijuana debate, if you can't wrap your simple mind around that argument, then this discussion is worthless.

Oh and I LOL'd Hard at your cigarette comment. Again, if you don't see tobacco as more harmful to health then marijuana, you are very mislead.

Okay naive morons. Go spend some time around rehab clinics. Go watch crack heads steal anything for money. Watch a heroin addict shoot up behind an alley. Watch a coke head freak out when they need a fix. Go watch someone suck **** to get more acid. Ive seen all of these in person, save for the acid, I wasnt actually watching. You are all ****ing idiots who have no concept of what people are getting into. You want to legalize this ****? Fine. Pay for their rehab, tell the kids to just say no. Tell them heroin needs to be used responsibly. I mean, since the government seems to want to have the rich pay for all our healthcare, why not put all the rehab stays and treatment for these people? Its not their fault! What would be the harm in introducing highly addictive substances into a society where excess and hedonism are the cornerstones of our contemporary culture? You want to pay for someones rehab stay(s)? Fine, my tax dollars wont. Legalizing drugs going well is a ****ing pipe dream. I love yalls attitudes. "You know what America needs!?! More legal addictive drugs! NOW!" It cracks me up that California is campaigning to ban smoking cigarettes and is trying to legalize weed, among other things. Just lol.

The human psychical experience is simply phenomenal in its ability to produce such varying perspectives from experiences of an equal severity. I have seen all the unsavory acts you mention here, and more to boot, and yet I managed to avoid making such a fundamental error of attribution as to paint the activity as such with such a broad and intrinsically negative stroke.

Rather, I gleaned that such individuals tend toward illegality not due to some evil inherent within the act of ingesting elicit compounds, nor due to terminal flaws in the fabric of their characters, but precisely and only because the act itself is and was already illegal: which is to say, the peripheral activities of drug use (theft and larceny, assault, et al) occur primarily because the central activities of drug use (acquiring and using them) exist in a social context which predicts the former.

While I concede your point that the mortally addictive nature of elicit drug use contributes earnestly to the issue, I could recite a litany of compounds with similarly addictive natures that do not result in such indirectly destructive behaviors. The distinguishing feature, here, is that the avenues of obtainment for these other addictive compounds - pharmacies for prescription medications and liquor stores for alcohol, namely - have been legitimized, and subsist in a social atmosphere which provides collective normative constraints that prevent such behaviors as a result.

Does an alcoholic, for example, not commit such acts because alcohol is less addictive than its illegal counterparts, or because alcoholics are vested with a sense of moral aptitude that drug addicts do not possess? No, of course not, and suggesting as much is absurd. They do not because they are permitted to conduct the central activity of their addiction (obtaining and drinking alcohol) through legitimate channels which carry pressures to conduct oneself in a particular manner - and needless to say, purchasing heroin in a back alley does not come associated with such constraints.

I could pose a thought experiment asking you to reverse the legalities of elicit drugs and alcohol in an effort to consider what the consequence would be, but luckily, that is not necessary: tradition already proffers an answer of what occurred when alcohol was made illegal, and displays what activities seemingly normal people are willing to engage in when they are placed in the right context. Unfortunately, you have not managed to make yourself a student of history, and your premises fail miserably on those grounds.

Okay naive morons. Go spend some time around rehab clinics. Go watch crack heads steal anything for money. Watch a heroin addict shoot up behind an alley. Watch a coke head freak out when they need a fix. Go watch someone suck **** to get more acid. Ive seen all of these in person, save for the acid, I wasnt actually watching. You are all ****ing idiots who have no concept of what people are getting into. You want to legalize this ****? Fine. Pay for their rehab, tell the kids to just say no. Tell them heroin needs to be used responsibly. I mean, since the government seems to want to have the rich pay for all our healthcare, why not put all the rehab stays and treatment for these people? Its not their fault! What would be the harm in introducing highly addictive substances into a society where excess and hedonism are the cornerstones of our contemporary culture? You want to pay for someones rehab stay(s)? Fine, my tax dollars wont. Legalizing drugs going well is a ****ing pipe dream. I love yalls attitudes. "You know what America needs!?! More legal addictive drugs! NOW!" It cracks me up that California is campaigning to ban smoking cigarettes and is trying to legalize weed, among other things. Just lol.

ok, so its illegal, and you see this happening all the time. so it being illegal is a waste of tax dollars.

instead, use money to put more cops on the streets to help fight crime. make them legal and they dont have to worry about all the drug dealers anymore as an extra bonus.

its as simple as that, making things illegal doesnt stop anybody, and your seeing first hand how big of a problem it is, although its illegal. nobody is saying doing drugs is good.

making drugs legal will get the drug pushers off the street introducing the drugs to kids, pushing them and convincing them to learn some new habits so the drug dealers can make some cash.

for your last comment, about making ciggarettes illegal, well i dont think they should be illegal just like all the other drugs. the problem is you compare ciggs to pot. ciggs kill 450,000 americans a year, and pot kills 0, so do the math and you will see a little difference there.

나는 2000년 10월 매들린 올브라이트 전 미 국무장관 매들린 사랑, 그 중 한 뜨거운 젠장!

08-06-2010, 09:38 PM

lutherblsstt

Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier

The human psychical experience is simply phenomenal in its ability to produce such varying perspectives from experiences of an equal severity. I have seen all the unsavory acts you mention here, and more to boot, and yet I managed to avoid making such a fundamental error of attribution as to paint the activity as such with such a broad and intrinsically negative stroke.

Rather, I gleaned that such individuals tend toward illegality not due to some evil inherent within the act of ingesting elicit compounds, nor due to terminal flaws in the fabric of their characters, but precisely and only because the act itself is and was already illegal: which is to say, the peripheral activities of drug use (theft and larceny, assault, et al) occur primarily because the central activities of drug use (acquiring and using them) exist in a social context which predicts the former.

While I concede your point that the mortally addictive nature of elicit drug use contributes earnestly to the issue, I could recite a litany of compounds with similarly addictive natures that do not result in such indirectly destructive behaviors. The distinguishing feature, here, is that the avenues of obtainment for these other addictive compounds - pharmacies for prescription medications and liquor stores for alcohol, namely - have been legitimized, and subsist in a social atmosphere which provides collective normative constraints that prevent such behaviors as a result.

Does an alcoholic, for example, not commit such acts because alcohol is less addictive than its illegal counterparts, or because alcoholics are vested with a sense of moral aptitude that drug addicts do not possess? No, of course not, and suggesting as much is absurd. They do not because they are permitted to conduct the central activity of their addiction (obtaining and drinking alcohol) through legitimate channels which carry pressures to conduct oneself in a particular manner - and needless to say, purchasing heroin in a back alley does not come associated with such constraints.

I could pose a thought experiment asking you to reverse the legalities of elicit drugs and alcohol in an effort to consider what the consequence would be, but luckily, that is not necessary: tradition already proffers an answer of what occurred when alcohol was made illegal, and displays what activities seemingly normal people are willing to engage in when they are placed in the right context. Unfortunately, you have not managed to make yourself a student of history, and your premises fail miserably on those grounds.

Mulletsoldier I salute you,that was a very thorough response to TexasTitans typical insulting,adolescent tirade.