DA:O is a bad game, mechanically. There's really no getting beyond that for some people and that's a completely legitimate complaint.

Disagree.

On a more subjective note: I don't know which place exactly it holds in my personal Top 20 RPGs ever list, but I'll say this: Leliana singing. That is all.

Explain? I'm not trying to judge the game as a whole here. I am stating that, mechanically, it's bad under the hood. So why do you disagree? You think it really works and that you were never frustrated by the UI or lack of responsiveness or stupid shit that went on with the way your melee characters had to dick around shuffling around enemies instead of just hitting them, the dumb pathing problems, all that "old school" stuff we took for granted in 1998 because that's how RPGs were, but have aged extremely badly?

or were you smart and played mage, thus avoiding half the problems (but introducing the hilarious class imbalance the game had as well)

e: wait are you saying you liked that singing bit

The pathing problems are.. weird. Every. Single. Goddamn. Fight. Starts with your whole party except the controlled character running away from the people they're trying to attack. And then during the fight, as Psion says, for some reason they can't just swap targets, they also have to adjust their position first even if they are right next to the new target.

And then some skills, like the dual-wielder's dual weapon sweep, are just executed regardless of what direction the character happens to be facing. So if you tell them to turn around to attack the next character and dual sweep, they'll dual sweep and then turn around.

But I still enjoy it. I didn't think I was in the minority with that opinion

DA:O is a bad game, mechanically. There's really no getting beyond that for some people and that's a completely legitimate complaint.

Disagree.

On a more subjective note: I don't know which place exactly it holds in my personal Top 20 RPGs ever list, but I'll say this: Leliana singing. That is all.

Explain? I'm not trying to judge the game as a whole here. I am stating that, mechanically, it's bad under the hood. So why do you disagree? You think it really works and that you were never frustrated by the UI or lack of responsiveness or stupid shit that went on with the way your melee characters had to dick around shuffling around enemies instead of just hitting them, the dumb pathing problems, all that "old school" stuff we took for granted in 1998 because that's how RPGs were, but have aged extremely badly?

or were you smart and played mage, thus avoiding half the problems (but introducing the hilarious class imbalance the game had as well)

e: wait are you saying you liked that singing bit

The pathing problems are.. weird. Every. Single. Goddamn. Fight. Starts with your whole party except the controlled character running away from the people they're trying to attack. And then during the fight, as Psion says, for some reason they can't just swap targets, they also have to adjust their position first even if they are right next to the new target.

And then some skills, like the dual-wielder's dual weapon sweep, are just executed regardless of what direction the character happens to be facing. So if you tell them to turn around to attack the next character and dual sweep, they'll dual sweep and then turn around.

But I still enjoy it. I didn't think I was in the minority with that opinion

Yeah pathing was weird on the game. Sometimes it was ok, and on another it would feel like incorrect.But did you check the AI routines each character could have? Sometimes when learning a new skill this could scramble up some routines, or when adding a new strategic slot. This could make some characters to change their mind sometimes or do "unexpected" things that were already there on the script of your character. I didn't find much trouble with combat, as characters pretty much did what I told them to except for the times their AI character routines cotradicted it.

Game was a bit clunky, as it felt like something was moving or responding too slow. But even then it was enjoyable for several people despite that. In theory, the clunkiness would be a turnoff, but it had something that was attractive. Probably, it's because it also felt like raw harsh non-flashy combat. But it's understandable if people didn't like these flaws.

There are always different expectations to what a character can or should be, but overall it was a good story, with great lore. Characters were a bit of a mismatch. Sten was good at times, annoying at others. Alistair seemed too emotional at time but after some parts of the story he sounded better. Morrigan and Leilana were pretty consistent for me and I liked them. Main story was ok, with subquests being very good, like Orzammar. It was LONG, but fulfilling.

But no, you are not the minority. A lot of people like Origins. If they didn't, there wouldn't have been the outrage DA2 had.

DA:O is a bad game, mechanically. There's really no getting beyond that for some people and that's a completely legitimate complaint.

Disagree.

I'm surprised to hear that, as this isn't really debatable. Relative to standards set in other western cRPGs (many of which are far older), the mechanics were objectively bad, only to get even worse in DA2. Whether you enjoyed the game (or, god help us, even enjoyed the mechanics themselves) is irrelevant.

Explain? I'm not trying to judge the game as a whole here. I am stating that, mechanically, it's bad under the hood. So why do you disagree?

I liked the combat, the spell combinations, the way enemies slip on grease patches and the way you jump at ogres and run them through the heart with your broadsword. I liked the dog and the fact that your archers do get targeted by the enemy and the seven kinds of raining death mages can unleash on the battlefield, at the same time.

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You think it really works and that you were never frustrated by the UI or lack of responsiveness

I paused the game and choreographed each fight manually. So for me it was less AI doing stuff and more me pausing every 10 seconds (at least) and issuing orders. It did get tedious after a while, especially on my second playthrough, but I liked the game enough to persist.

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or stupid shit that went on with the way your melee characters had to dick around shuffling around enemies instead of just hitting them

Yeah, that was dumb.

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the dumb pathing problems

Never really came up for me. Push came to shove I just took control of the character and moved him/her/it myself.

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all that "old school" stuff we took for granted in 1998 because that's how RPGs were, but have aged extremely badly?

Eh. Not saying that it was acceptable in 2007, but looking back now, I find it quaintly charming that in Baldur's Gate I had to make the game's pathfinding retarded to kill that one NPC. Cheesy, but charming. (Yes, this is somewhat off-topic.)

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or were you smart and played mage, thus avoiding half the problems (but introducing the hilarious class imbalance the game had as well)

First play-through was a human noble fighter, second one was a battle-mage. I think, overall, I liked my first playthrough better, even though on the second one I made more "right choices".

Mechanically, on the first run I enjoyed the freedom of just hacking and slashing and not caring much what happened beyond that, while on the second I enjoyed using the right spells in the proper order, which was necessary to beat the enemies. I mean, by the mid-game I was still overpowered as fuck, to the point that only Golems of Amgarrak on Nightmare provided a real challenge, but the game as a whole was still fun.

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e: wait are you saying you liked that singing bit

Loved it without reservations. If a girl sang thus to me in real life I'd be down on bended knee.

I liked the combat, the spell combinations, the way enemies slip on grease patches and the way you jump at ogres and run them through the heart with your broadsword. I liked the dog and the fact that your archers do get targeted by the enemy and the seven kinds of raining death mages can unleash on the battlefield, at the same time.

So basically the bits you liked are the bits which have all been done in prior games, done better, and done minus all the mechanics flaws.

I liked the combat, the spell combinations, the way enemies slip on grease patches and the way you jump at ogres and run them through the heart with your broadsword. I liked the dog and the fact that your archers do get targeted by the enemy and the seven kinds of raining death mages can unleash on the battlefield, at the same time.

So basically the bits you liked are the bits which have all been done in prior games, done better, and done minus all the mechanics flaws.

In fairness- and I'm saying this as someone who is definitely in the "DA:O was not a particularly good game" camp- I think he's right in identifying things that DA:O did particularly well. The mechanics were painful, the plot and pacing plodding, but when combat looked good, it looked real good. The animations and effects could be spectacular and engrossing. Of course, the substance behind it was barely there, but I think it's fair to say that DA:O's combat had a good appearance, if not play.

Loved it without reservations. If a girl sang thus to me in real life I'd be down on bended knee.

Haha, yeah, I loved that too. Leliana in general is one of my favorite video game characters, although I can't quite pinpoint why. I just loved listening to her, both the way her dialogue was worded and voiced.

Leliana singing was a definite space-bar moment for me. No interesting cut-scene, no cool bard-magic effects, there was nothing but her singing nonsense words. I thought to myself, "That is something I never want to happen again."

Aside from that, despite the terrible UI and bland-ish story, I really enjoyed DA:O, but only on PC. I couldn't return the 360 version to Gamestop fast enough. That game simply isn't controller-friendly.

Dead Space 3 is a good action game, with horror tones as in "Those enemies look disgusting" or something like that. It still can have a creepy environment for some, but probably it could compensate your Aliens expectations.

You could also do a "Mortus Sucks At: System Shock 2". I say this because I just started playing it, and man, I suck at it. Plus, it just came out on GOG for $10. The graphics are to some degree hilariously bad now, and while I'm sure it still has plenty of tension, the first scene of someone running from a zombie with a shotgun, the sound was not in sync, so it made me laugh a little. I think it'll get scarier the more I get into it, but it could also prove for some funny moments in your videos I think.

Still, such an old game, not sure if anyone would want to watch that much of it.

Not really horror, but as a side note, have you played Chronicles of Riddick: Escape from Butcher Bay/Dark Athena?

The Butcher Bay hd remake included with Dark Athena is fantastic. I would love watching Mortus play that. Dark Athena itself gets pretty frustrating about half way in though, and really isn't worth it.

Not really horror, but as a side note, have you played Chronicles of Riddick: Escape from Butcher Bay/Dark Athena?

The Butcher Bay hd remake included with Dark Athena is fantastic. I would love watching Mortus play that. Dark Athena itself gets pretty frustrating about half way in though, and really isn't worth it.

Dark Athena, while it has it's frustrating parts, I think was definitely worth it for the improved melee combat, and the inclusion of the Ulaks (sp?), those things are badass. Plus the overall story is pretty good too.

Not really horror, but as a side note, have you played Chronicles of Riddick: Escape from Butcher Bay/Dark Athena?

The Butcher Bay hd remake included with Dark Athena is fantastic. I would love watching Mortus play that. Dark Athena itself gets pretty frustrating about half way in though, and really isn't worth it.

Dark Athena, while it has it's frustrating parts, I think was definitely worth it for the improved melee combat, and the inclusion of the Ulaks (sp?), those things are badass. Plus the overall story is pretty good too.

I think that improved melee combat was included in the Butcher Bay remake as well. The gatling spiders in Dark Athena make the game no fun,

Spoiler: show

and having the pirate queen survive a stab to the throat like that is bullshit.

Anyone ever play The Suffering? That was an interesting mix of Horror and Action and morality. It's kind of old at this point so I don't know how well it holds up but back when I played it I thought it was pretty good.

Clive Barker's Undying was interesting as well but I tried re-playing it a few years ago and since its an FPS it feels pretty dated now.

If you play co-op I recommend reducing the frequency that weapons break. They don't bump up the amount of weapons or ammo and it gets doubly hard with 2 people unless you like getting in everythings face for melee or go the Psy Ops route.

I keep forgetting that SS2 has co-op now. I think that might make a playthrough more bearable. If anyone is interested, I would probably be free to put in a couple hours here and there throughout the week. Might not have time during the weekends though.