Does Star Wars have some of the largest spaceships(and some of the most powerful) in sci-fi?

Maybe I just haven't seen/read/played enough of sci-fi, but in the vast majority of fiction I've encountered, even the largest of capital ships are usually limited to a few kilometers in length and/or width.

Some of the ships in Star Wars, on the other hand, are pretty damn huge. Those Super Star Destroyers/Dreadnoughts can be up to around 20 kilometers in length! And then there's the really big stuff like the Death Stars and that Sun Crusher thing. On top of it all, all of them seem to have the firepower to match their impressive size.

So what are your thoughts? Maybe some of you more knowledgeable types know of fiction where starships are consistently bigger(and more powerful) than those in Star Wars.

mattatom

Well the Suncrusher wasn't a big ship it was a single seater, it was just invinceable, and could make stars go supernova. Oh and

Now I'm not sure if this counts as "sci fi", but Galactus has a space ship the size of a solar system...

REXXXX

Star Trek seems to take the cake, there.

truejedi

Um... DEF STAR!!! that's no moon

Lord Lucien

Death Star II, 900 km diameter. Though it's not really a "ship".

Sticking to that vein, a plethora of science-fiction works have used a Dyson sphere, including Star Trek I believe.

mattatom

If you check the site they came from one of the questions on the FAQ is "Why isn't the Death Star there" "Because we don't have a chart big enough, even scaled down." Oh and technically the Death Star is a battlestation, but it can move and it's equipped with a hyperdrive, so what does it have that a normal ship doesn't, Lucien?

Lord Lucien

Originally posted by mattatom
If you check the site they came from one of the questions on the FAQ is "Why isn't the Death Star there" "Because we don't have a chart big enough, even scaled down." Oh and technically the Death Star is a battlestation, but it can move and it's equipped with a hyperdrive, so what does it have that a normal ship doesn't, Lucien? Style.

MasterAshenVor

STAR TREK WINS!

All Hail Star Trek!

*snickers and goes back into basement*

mattatom

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Style. Then you and the Death Star have something in common, a lack of style.

ArtificialGlory

Originally posted by REXXXX
Star Trek seems to take the cake, there.

Heh. I never watched Star Trek or Babylon 5, but then again, they never aired here either.

EDIT: But does it have anything to rival the size of a Death Star?

Lord Lucien

Originally posted by mattatom
Then you and the Death Star have something in common, a lack of style. Let me get out my Big Book of Predictable Comebacks... aaaand... yup; there's you're name and that very example. Damn, boy.

mattatom

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Let me get out my Big Book of Predictable Comebacks... aaaand... yup; there's you're name and that very example. Damn, boy. Let me borrow that for a second, ahh here we go, thats what he said.

Morridini

So after viewing the charts SW wins with the Death Star, interesting.

ArtificialGlory

Originally posted by Morridini
So after viewing the charts SW wins with the Death Star, interesting.

Apparently bigger than anything in Star Trek, Stargate or Babylon 5, but I'm sure not the biggest in sci-fi.

Hewhoknowsall

Originally posted by Morridini
So after viewing the charts SW wins with the Death Star, interesting.

Again, not sure if this is "sci fi", but Galactus's ship is the size of a STAR SYSTEM, and is speculated to be the greatest source of energy in the Marvel Universe.

One Free Man

Magog world ship.

jaden101

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Heh. I never watched Star Trek or Babylon 5, but then again, they never aired here either.

EDIT: But does it have anything to rival the size of a Death Star?

As someone already mentioned. ST has utilised a type of Dyson's sphere. It's a structure that completely envelopes a star and so captures all it's energy. Civilisations would live on the inside surface of it.

Lol, the great thing about Gurren lagann is how unashamedly over the top it is. In the final fight they start throwing galaxies at each other.

edit: Ah yes. I think it was actually pretty massive, even bigger than the Death Star iir.

Lord Lucien

The Hammerhead-class cruisers used by the Republic were 315 meters long. I just watched the Light Side ending where the capital ships destroy the orbital stabilizers on top of the station. Doing a visual in my head, the Star Forge is NOWHERE near the size of the first Death Star. I would say from top to bottom it's probably around the length of the Executor.

Autokrat

Technology in star wars works in curious ways. Nothing really changes except things get bigger and more powerful, but the base technology and aesthetic qualities remain unchanged. Well at least starting from KotoR on, with a bizarre little break during the New Sith Wars were people are using swords and spears and shit. I guess guns just aren't as cool.

Nephthys

Ah, I see. I must of got confused by this clip (which I still am), which shows the star forge as being (comparable to?)not dwarfed by a sun:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5xDSZnok4s

Lord Lucien

That is pretty strange. You can't really see the Star Forge at that distance, but either that star is smaller than what we'd expect, or the designers screwed up.

truejedi

yes, some of them.

S_W_LeGenD

This may shed light on the size of the Star Forge:

http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/9956/starforge.png

Allankles

The Star Forge is significantly smaller than the Death Star.

Darth_Glentract

I think that the Zenosaga games had a ship that was 10,000 kilometers. Like Cathedral Ship, but I dont know. That name doesn't sound right. It was like a crazy alien ship thing. The Actual ship, not a station. The largest Worldship was huge though at 120 km. Zenosaga also had the Dammerung, which was like 10,000 km also. Pretty ridiculous. SW had some mile long ships during the Lando series way back. They were those weird robots from the unknown regions.

Lord Lucien

The ones from the Vong galaxy, I believe.

Darth_Glentract

What ones from the Vong galaxy? Worldships? The largest was 120 km. Pretty dang big.

Lord Lucien

No, those droid ships from the Unknown Regions. Those are supposed to be one of the two sentient droid species that the Vong pushed out of their galaxy.

Scythe

Where would that big ass ship from District 9 be at?

S_W_LeGenD

Originally posted by Scythe
Where would that big ass ship from District 9 be at?
It is smaller than the City Destroyer we saw in Independence Day.

However, it is most likely bigger than the Executor Class battleship we saw in Star Wars.

Darth_Glentract

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
No, those droid ships from the Unknown Regions. Those are supposed to be one of the two sentient droid species that the Vong pushed out of their galaxy.

Oh yeah, I get what you're saying. I hadn't realized they were from the Vong Galaxy.

Zenosaga also had the Arc of Abel. It was the size of a solar system, so hundreds of millions of miles.

Weltall

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Zenosaga

Shey Tapani

i bet Rakata ships were really large.

Mannoroth II

Uhm, there are I think at least a few other sci-fic universes which have ships capable of destroying entire stars, compare that with the sun crusher.

For example, Halo Wars' "Halo Array" is capable of destroying all sentinent life in the galaxy when activated - and yet it's not even included in that chart. There are craptons of powerful ships aside from SW and ST.

Another example is the Sathanas juggernaut from FreeSpace II. One of these is capable of destroying a planet, and a fleet of 80 can annihilate a sun in a couple of minutes by tearing apart a subspace field (according to wikipedia).

So my conclusion is, Star Wars has pretty much of the biggest ships in the entire history of Science Fiction (DS II), but not necessarilly the most powerful. The Sathanas is just 6 kilometers and yet it could probably destroy a planet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planet_killer

Lord Lucien

Originally posted by Mannoroth II
Uhm, there are I think at least a few other sci-fic universes which have ships capable of destroying entire stars, compare that with the sun crusher.

For example, Halo Wars' "Halo Array" is capable of destroying all sentinent life in the galaxy when activated - and yet it's not even included in that chart. There are craptons of powerful ships aside from SW and ST.

Another example is the Sathanas juggernaut from FreeSpace II. One of these is capable of destroying a planet, and a fleet of 80 can annihilate a sun in a couple of minutes by tearing apart a subspace field (according to wikipedia).

So my conclusion is, Star Wars has pretty much of the biggest ships in the entire history of Science Fiction (DS II), but not necessarilly the most powerful. The Sathanas is just 6 kilometers and yet it could probably destroy a planet. Just to contrast: The Sathana's 6 kilometer planet killer is a poor comparison against the 50 foot star system destroyer.

Budada

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Just to contrast: The Sathana's 6 kilometer planet killer is a poor comparison against the 50 foot star system destroyer.

...but a fleet of those could still destroy an entire star system TOO

mattatom

Originally posted by Budada
...but a fleet of those could still destroy an entire star system TOO However are they, invincible?!

Budada

Halo Array anyone?

Lord Lucien

Those aren't ships.

Mannoroth II

That's the point. This whole discussion turns to talking about space stations. Why? Because space stations are the biggest man-made wonders of the science fiction world that we compare.

Originally posted by mattatom
However are they, invincible?!

Not really, but probably it would require the Executor's full firepower sometime to diminish each.

Lord Lucien

Originally posted by Mannoroth II
That's the point. This whole discussion turns to talking about space stations. Why? Because space stations are the biggest man-made wonders of the science fiction world that we compare. The Halo array wasn't made by Man.

mattatom

So, by that time, the suncrusher would have already blown up the star system?

Mannoroth II

Originally posted by mattatom
So, by that time, the suncrusher would have already blown up the star system?

But if you gave the Halo Array some more time, it would've blown up all sentinent life in the universe.

Lord Lucien

"If" it requires more time to win, then it loses.

mattatom

First it doesn't 'blow anything up' it just turns it to ash. Any sentient life with a certain Carbon index. Also, Lucien has a point.

Red Nemesis

so silicon based life forms are immune? What about those from other dimensions? 'Wars has both i think,,,

mattatom

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
so silicon based life forms are immune? What about those from other dimensions? 'Wars has both i think,,, It has the ability to target actualy cells, for example neurons... so whoever activates it chooses.

Mannoroth II

Originally posted by kaloonzu
Hyperspace can only go along specified routes, or you have to constantly decelerate and change your course. In addition, with subspace you can pick the point you want to travel to and almost immediately arrive there, which is a tactical boon in a combat engagement. I'd say that over long distances, the two universes' ship speeds balance out.

Oh, and the Shivans would rip the Empire+Rebelllion+Republic+Ewoks a new one. Hell, the GTVA could do it. Their shields aren't as resilient as ours, and we have plasma turrets, repeating lasers, and beam weaponry. However, it seems that all other universes can engage from longer range.

I could've said this myself, but I don't own this...
This is how FreeSpace, a humble, little old game can give a good kick to Star Wars, most probably the largest, wealthiest science fiction series that exists.

Ms.Marvel

didnt it take the sun crusher like an hour to destroy the solar system?

Lord Lucien

Yup.

Darth_Glentract

It took time for the star to actually blow up, but the sun crushers job was done after the few seconds it took to launch the torpedo.

ArtificialGlory

Originally posted by Mannoroth II
I could've said this myself, but I don't own this...
This is how FreeSpace, a humble, little old game can give a good kick to Star Wars, most probably the largest, wealthiest science fiction series that exists.

Well, it's not the only game that could. Though I don't see why the scope and "wealth" of a series should dictate how powerful it is.

Budada

I don't know why we all have to say "the sun crusher is the best" just to say yes to this thread. The Sun Crusher is stupid. I mean, building a truck-sized steel object with armor dense enough to withstand a laser shot from the Death Star prototype? C'mon. The Sun Crusher wasn't even in the movies.

And "burrowing" the torpedo to the sun's core? The torpedo would melt down in less than a second before it even reaches a star's surface. The Sun Crusher is unrealistic, irrelevant, and, as I've said, just an excuse to make Star Wars ships sound the best.

I think this is the reason why the Death Star still remains the most powerful and most popular superweapon in Star Wars. At least the Death Star was more logical.

Red Nemesis

Originally posted by Budada
I don't know why we all have to say "the sun crusher is the best" just to say yes to this thread. The Sun Crusher is stupid. I mean, building a truck-sized steel object with armor dense enough to withstand a laser shot from the Death Star prototype? C'mon. The Sun Crusher wasn't even in the movies.

And "burrowing" the torpedo to the sun's core? The torpedo would melt down in less than a second before it even reaches a star's surface. The Sun Crusher is unrealistic, irrelevant, and, as I've said, just an excuse to make Star Wars ships sound the best.

I think this is the reason why the Death Star still remains the most powerful and most popular superweapon in Star Wars. At least the Death Star was more logical.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
So your argument against the Sun Crusher is that it is physically impossible?

Your argument is that it is physically impossible when it is the least unlikely weapon (by our universe's laws of physics) yet devised by the Empire?

Your argument is that, while the Sun Crusher is physically impossible, the DSII is the most practical weapon yet devised?

facepalm

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
U R Re.Tar.Ded.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Didn't IYOU say that already?
Fixed for context

Lord Lucien

Originally posted by Budada
I don't know why we all have to say "the sun crusher is the best" just to say yes to this thread. The Sun Crusher is stupid. I mean, building a truck-sized steel object with armor dense enough to withstand a laser shot from the Death Star prototype? C'mon. The Sun Crusher wasn't even in the movies.

And "burrowing" the torpedo to the sun's core? The torpedo would melt down in less than a second before it even reaches a star's surface. The Sun Crusher is unrealistic, irrelevant, and, as I've said, just an excuse to make Star Wars ships sound the best.

I think this is the reason why the Death Star still remains the most powerful and most popular superweapon in Star Wars. At least the Death Star was more logical. Wow, you're really bad at this.

Budada

Uhm, Red Nemesis can you please fix the multiple quotes of what I said. There are only two versions. Honestly.

You guys can't seem to get my point...the sun crusher is irrelevant. What kind of metal was used to construct it, anyway?

Lord Lucien

Originally posted by Budada
Uhm, Red Nemesis can you please fix the multiple quotes of what I said. There are only two versions. Honestly.

You guys can't seem to get my point...the sun crusher is irrelevant. What kind of metal was used to construct it, anyway? Quantum-crystalline armor.

Now, do you mind explaining why the Sun Crusher is irrelevant?

Budada

It's too small, too hard, and too uber. As I said, how could the photon torpedo actually penetrate a star? Wouldn't it melt down? I just laugh at the golden sculpture.

Lord Lucien

Originally posted by Budada
It's too small, too hard, and too uber. As I said, how could the photon torpedo actually penetrate a star? Wouldn't it melt down? I just laugh at the golden sculpture. It's fine if you think it's silly, just don't label something as irrelevant just because you don't like it. I quite despise KotOR II, but I can't deny it's existence and relevance.

And you're best not to actually question the physics and technology in Star Wars. All things considered---it's science fiction.

Slash_KMC

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I quite despise KotOR II, but I can't deny it's existence and relevance.

Why? I know it starts of slow and is terribly unfinished, but what else does it make so bad?

Lord Lucien

For me it didn't live up to the first game. I quite enjoyed the introduction of all the characters, the initial confusion, the... cheerfully enthusiastic opening hours (the battles above Taris, the search for Bastila, Rakghouls, the swoop gang war etc.). Then the Jedi training, the search for the maps, the banter between characters. It was all very, "fun" I guess you could call it. Then the story's escalation on the Leviathon, learning to become a Sith, the final decision---it was all simply done, but Bioware pulled it off well.

#2 though was a bloody chore to get through. I've got nothing against a little mystery in a game and its characters, but right from the get go, practically to about 3/4 through the game I was still asking myself "Who the f*ck are these people, and why don't I care?" I don't like not giving a rat's ass about the characters. Even Canderous wasn't as cool this time around (HK-47 may have been the one saving grace, and G0-T0 I took a liking to). Or the story. Really my whole motivation to finish the game was to find out who the Exile really was, and how everybody you met fell in to place with everything. I was very, very disappointed.

Slash_KMC

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
For me it didn't live up to the first game. I quite enjoyed the introduction of all the characters, the initial confusion, the... cheerfully enthusiastic opening hours (the battles above Taris, the search for Bastila, Rakghouls, the swoop gang war etc.). Then the Jedi training, the search for the maps, the banter between characters. It was all very, "fun" I guess you could call it. Then the story's escalation on the Leviathon, learning to become a Sith, the final decision---it was all simply done, but Bioware pulled it off well.

#2 though was a bloody chore to get through. I've got nothing against a little mystery in a game and its characters, but right from the get go, practically to about 3/4 through the game I was still asking myself "Who the f*ck are these people, and why don't I care?" I don't like not giving a rat's ass about the characters. Even Canderous wasn't as cool this time around (HK-47 may have been the one saving grace, and G0-T0 I took a liking to). Or the story. Really my whole motivation to finish the game was to find out who the Exile really was, and how everybody you met fell in to place with everything. I was very, very disappointed.

Okay, I had the same feeling, when I finished Kotor 1, I was like alright it's done and I've played the game. The second one, especially Malachor V didn't have anything that even compares to a satisfying ending. I was honestly confused when the game ended, I was asking myself what's going to happen now... and nothing freakin' happened!

But I agree about the characters. I really tried to understand Kreia's point of view, but she was never happy unless you did exactly what she told u to do, how do you build character that way? Also, the zabrak voice sucked, the Handmaiden was overly whiney, the bounty hunter was somehow important but yet I still don't know how, Visas Marr was just there for the ride after you 'spared' her you don't have a choice. The only one that was slightly interesting was Atton when learning about his Sith past.

Lord Lucien

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
Okay, I had the same feeling, when I finished Kotor 1, I was like alright it's done and I've played the game. The second one, especially Malachor V didn't have anything that even compares to a satisfying ending. I was honestly confused when the game ended, I was asking myself what's going to happen now... and nothing freakin' happened!

But I agree about the characters. I really tried to understand Kreia's point of view, but she was never happy unless you did exactly what she told u to do, how do you build character that way? Also, the zabrak voice sucked, the Handmaiden was overly whiney, the bounty hunter was somehow important but yet I still don't know how, Visas Marr was just there for the ride after you 'spared' her you don't have a choice. The only one that was slightly interesting was Atton when learning about his Sith past. Atton was the only living character I liked, he actually had decent emotional depth to him with steady development. I never got around to replaying with Hanharr, but from what I do know, he's just a psychopath--nothing interesting in him, frankly. Everyone else was so... dead. Visas: cryptic and emotionless. Kreia: cryptic and confusing. Bao Dur: resolute and emotionless. Mira: useless. Mical: obsessive and pretentious. Brianna: untrusting and emotionless (I always considered her a weird hybrid between Carth and Bastila). Mandalore: somehow less badass than before.

The plot: boring. It had potential, but the lack of interesting characters and the overkilled sombre music made it so that my first and only play through took about 3 months.

And just a minor pet peeve: I have nothing against options and variety for clothing and weapons etc., but the sheer volume of options of items-to-characters was overwhelming. I remember scrutinizing endlessly over what should I keep, what will I need, when might I need this, what'll it be like if I upgrade it/stats. Ugh.

Slash_KMC

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Atton was the only living character I liked, he actually had decent emotional depth to him with steady development. I never got around to replaying with Hanharr, but from what I do know, he's just a psychopath--nothing interesting in him, frankly. Everyone else was so... dead. Visas: cryptic and emotionless. Kreia: cryptic and confusing. Bao Dur: resolute and emotionless. Mira: useless. Mical: obsessive and pretentious. Brianna: untrusting and emotionless (I always considered her a weird hybrid between Carth and Bastila). Mandalore: somehow less badass than before.

The plot: boring. It had potential, but the lack of interesting characters and the overkilled sombre music made it so that my first and only play through took about 3 months.

And just a minor pet peeve: I have nothing against options and variety for clothing and weapons etc., but the sheer volume of options of items-to-characters was overwhelming. I remember scrutinizing endlessly over what should I keep, what will I need, when might I need this, what'll it be like if I upgrade it/stats. Ugh.

I feel the same about the large selection of items, but the amount of party members was more annoying. People say they like to play with a variety of character... I only used like, 6 of them, definitely not less. They were ship decoration who you actually had to arm (which took a loooooong time), just in case some random battle happened like the one with Atton at the bar.

I still don't feel the drive of the plot. So you have to look for Jedi in hiding because... you want to know why they sent you in exile? To help stop the Sith (which you eventually did by yourself)?

So in the first you had to save the galaxy, and in the second you want to know why they kicked you out of the clubhouse.

Red Nemesis

Add to that just how useless the Jedi were-- even the ones that were singled out as "people that can fix this link w/Kriea" had ghey purple double blades and ghey washed up hippie-Namveteran vibes.

I did enjoy Onderon (but not Duxun).

mattatom

Dxun.

\\S//

The Death Star II, which was 700 miles in diametre I think, could traverse star systems and was essentially a spaceship.

It's almost as big as halo.

Lord Lucien

The Halo rings were 10,000 kilometers in diameter, so... way to make shit up.

Slash_KMC

As ussual.

Doctor-Alvis

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Now I'm not sure if this counts as "sci fi", but Galactus has a space ship the size of a solar system...
All hail the Devourer of Worlds!

Q99

I'm going to jump in and say that there's stuff that dwarfs most of the above.

The Ringworld from Larry Niven's ringworld gets a hyperdrive at one point, and there's the Puppeteer fleet of worlds, they literally got their star system moving. The comic Gold Digger has an artificial planet-ship.

The Culture has multiple ships in the 200km range, as their civilization is space-based so their 'cities/states' are often ships.

Dahak from David Weber's "Heirs of the Empire" series is literally Earth's Moon, and the 5th Imperium uses Planetoids as it's main warships too (under the idea that as long as one lives, it can re-create the Imperium).

Prince of Heroes has ships 'merely' in the 20 mile range for it's big ones, but fleet sizes in the billions exist, and there is a foe who's total strength is in the hundreds of billions/maybe a trillion range.

Schlock Mercenary has effectively an 'engine' on the entire galaxy.

And of course, it's not exactly a star ship, but there's the Xeelee Ring from Stephen Baxter's Xeelee sequence. It is an artificial construct that makes up a significant amount of the mass of the universe, made of woven galaxies and spun at incredible speed. Their enemies try and destroy it by flinging galaxies at it as projectiles.

Nephthys

Gurren Lagann still stands head and shoulders above everything else.

Q99

Originally posted by Nephthys
Gurren Lagann still stands head and shoulders above everything else.

In that it literally stands on a giant galaxy and threw smaller galaxies as shuriken, yes