This is still datamined so it may change:•Item - Druid T15 Feral 2P Bonus (New) Predatory Swiftness grants you an additional combo point on your current combo target when consumed.•Item - Druid T15 Feral 4P Bonus (New) After using Tiger's Fury, you gain 40% increased critical strike chance on the next 3 uses of Mangle, Shred, or Ferocious Bite.

Not sure how I feel about the 2p yet. Seems like they want to make our rotation even more complicated. I will think more on it after raid tonight. Please discuss.

2 piece is a vast overcomplication of the rotation, probably will make DoC even better since it will put the finisher success rate at basically 100%, makes the other two specs harder in a rather asinine way.

4 piece is nice, but rather uninspired. It will synergize very very well with the 2 piece for DoC by allowing you to crank out massive Ferocious Bites on a consistent basis. This will make FB pooling much much more vital and very likely widen the gap between DoC and the other two specs. In addition to that, it introduces a (very soft) crit soft cap as there will be a point where a buffed FB will have 100% chance to crit.

The 2pc is pretty much forcing the 3 specs to play like doc just less controlled use of the procs. My biggest concern is it might over complicate doc.I can see a lot of proc cps going to waste depending on primal fury procs while trying to save your pred swift for a rip. Maybe if the proc'd cp could work like holy power in cata where if you were able to gain the over stack within a very short window you would get it the set bonus would be more appealing

Elamari wrote:RE: 2pcI think it will contribute to smoothness in the rotation from the extra CP generation. It is a matter of timing, having to think a bit on about when to use it.

RE: 4pcI prefer the play style of the "rotation" with high crit levels. So it looks like a little bit of burst every 30sec with TF.

IDK we will have and see how it plays out. But my general feeling is that these bonuses are aiming to help smooth out the rotation.

I think that is the intent. However in execution I don't think it's going to work out for most Ferals that way. Right now TF can often get wasted because you have to use a PS proc and you lose 1.5 seconds from the HT. It will be even worse here as it will add extra delays and clunks with people trying to figure out when to use it.

There is no way we are going to hit 60% crit even with trinket procs in T15 so I doubt that the 4p will ever introduce a soft cap.

kumineko wrote:Will the gap between NV spec and DoC spec really be that wide with this set bonus as you guys say? Because i dont really understand how it does that. If you could explain I would appreciate it.

It really shouldn't be that much different; you can still use PS procs without DoC . . .

It will be slightly better because you will have a greater chance of using your DoC procs on finishers instead of just a rake and a shred, but I still don't personally think it will be vastly different.

The 4-piece directly increases the damage of Ferocious Bite and the 2-piece increases both the count and the DoC success rate of Ferocious Bites. Since Ferocious Bites as DoC hit significantly harder than they do for the other two talents the bonuses will therefore be inherently stronger for DoC.

And I didn't say that the gap between DoC and the other specs would be massive, I merely side it would be wider than it already is; by how much is still to be determined.

For the same gear set that I believe simc was using (pre-5.2, pre-upgrade) [Although, we should probably establish a common gear set to test against.], if I swap the bonuses from T14 to T15, I see a +5K DPS increase (about +4% overall).

What i wonder is that if soft caping crit will be prio not just becuase of FB but securing Primal Fury procs.I think it really walking against the non manditory specs because DoC will be easier to execute but also because we'll have way more finnishers SofT will be stronger and DoC will be stronger aswell.

You won't be able to get anywhere near enough crit to softcap your Shreds/Mangles (barring crit procs), the only reason you can do it with FB is it has a +25% chance to crit on bleeding targets.

Implemented the bonuses into SimC, and assuming I did it correctly the 2-piece is a 3.65% DPS gain, and the 4-piece is a 3.56% DPS gain. The only (relevant) changes I made to the action list was a reduction of the HT combo point threshold down to 3. Presumably there are more optimizations to be made, probably something regarding specific use of the 4p charges.

aggixx wrote:You won't be able to get anywhere near enough crit to softcap your Shreds/Mangles (barring crit procs), the only reason you can do it with FB is it has a +25% chance to crit on bleeding targets.

aggixx wrote:Implemented the bonuses into SimC, and assuming I did it correctly the 2-piece is a 3.65% DPS gain, and the 4-piece is a 3.56% DPS gain. The only (relevant) changes I made to the action list was a reduction of the HT combo point threshold down to 3. Presumably there are more optimizations to be made, probably something regarding specific use of the 4p charges.

I computed my DPS gain relative to the T14, so our numbers aren't directly comparable. However, your T15 2p and 4p distributions are similar to what I can produce, so it looks like we have similar implementation.

If I put the 2p and 4p together, I see about ~7% DPS increase (no-bonus vs 2+4p) which is similar to your 7.3% (via 3.56% * 3.65%).

If I only do 2p relative to no-bonus, I see 3.1% DPS increase.If I only do 4p relative to no-bonus, I see 3.6% DPS increase.

It seems like the crit bonus should apply to Ravage too, but I guess no one PvE's with Incarnation.

The problem here though is a lot of people do. I end up correcting at least 1 Feral a week on the blizzard forums that recomends using Incarnation. Last I looked it was the most popular talent for Feral. It should be that no PVE Feral is taking Incarnation unelss they are trying to log on a fight or two.

Tinderhoof wrote:With the Ravage bonus of 40% above 80% mob health would make for some problems at the start of a fight. As that is when you will be using it anyway you wouldn't get a lot of extra value really.

(I'm at work so unable to test) If you do Incarnation in simc, how high is the average Ravage crit %?

Even with FB getting 25% crit from Bleed presence and 40% T15, the simc and Catus are only showing typical FB crit near 80% (although I'm sure that can be improved with a better action list). Nevertheless, I'll try to do a sim when I get home with Incarnation + T15 w/Ravage benefit just to see how high the Ravage crit rate actually gets.

Fort wrote:Will the 4pc PVP malevolent be competative with t15 like it is currently? or is t15 a lot better than t14 was?

T15 seems like a big upgrade. If the new 2p PvP bonus stays, I'd be interested in considering 2p T15 + 2p PvP at the start of 5.2 (depending on how the upgrades work, if it all) because the SR extend is a nice QoL upgrade and 2pT14 is complete trash.