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UAC Lazy Man's Guide
page 2

I wanted to jump in on the first-rebirth-before-Hathor thing, so we have some more data alongside HolyFireEuler's experience. I reset after defeating Gefion and reaching softcap, with a fair number of achievements, but I've been having trouble taking down Nephthys. I should finally get it now, at just under 4 days, with: 604 total might, 94 Atk+, 60-second unleash, first 12 (almost 13) phys/skill at 10m+, final two at 2m+, all others at 500k+, and 8 mighty statues (and all 7 GP in Phys). I'm hoping it won't be too much of a slog to get through Cybele after this, but I'm expecting up to a week of grinding Atk+ and Dimension X, with as many mighty statues as I can manage off of my divinity.
HolyFireEuler, I think your extra couple days trying for Hathor in your first RB weren't wasted; I'm guessing you got some extra achievements, at least from another skill 1-capping? I rebirthed with 102 might, first 11 skills at 10m, 12th at 2m, and all others at 100k—though I also rebirthed at just under 16 days. I may still not lose time in the long run, but resetting so promptly on RB1 either means that my current RB is just plain going to take longer, or that I'm doing something else wrong (since you said you had Nephthys down in under 3 days).

I am also in a first-rebirth-at-Gefion run, partially based on HolyFireEuler's data and without special fights to 1-cap.
The first rebirth took me 13.5 days, and i rebirthed after taking down Gefion with 75 total might.
The second rebirth took 14 days, most of which (8?) were a grind for Cybele. I rebirthed after killing Artemis with all the 2m and half the 10m training achievements, 169 Atk+, 816 total might, 155 MS, 5GS, 5 PoP, 7 ToG, and the following multis: Physical: 8E7/1.5E17, mystic: 7.9E7/1.3E17, battle: 9.4E6/3.7E15, creation: 5.9E7/2.8E16.
The third rebirth took 5 days until taking down Athena with all 2m training achievements and rebirthing, and from there on it is just the same as HolyFireEuler's described run.
I think that for a purely passive run, that is without special fights to 1-cap, it is best to rebirth at Gefion. The time it takes to grind to Hathor can be much better used in RB2 with 50 times more clones. Also doing all 10m training achievements takes all your clones for way too long to be worth it.

> *Originally posted by **[NathanW909](/forums/2874/topics/661063?page=2#11289907)**:*
> HolyFireEuler, I think your extra couple days trying for Hathor in your first RB weren't wasted;
Right, it's not completely wasted time. I still got more achievements, more caps, more multiplier bonus for time spent in a rebirth, maybe also some more total might.
But it is time that was much less useful than it could have been. Let's take your 4-day Nephthys vs my 3-day as a benchmark. So we can assume that you'll spend 33% more time on RB2 than I did. It took me 9 days until I beat Artemis, so it will probably take you 12 days. So you spend 3 days more than me on RB2 but 7 days less on RB1. (The next rebirths shouldn't be significantly affected). So that's 4 days saved by rebirthing ASAP, rather than after some additional time like I did. And of course, much better than trying to beat Hathor on RB1.

Yeah, that makes sense. I'll keep this updated when I finish RB2. I'm a little over 7 days in so far, which means around 3 days of grinding purely for Cybele right now, and it's still looking quite a ways off. I'm at 80 Mighty Statues, almost 1000 Might, rounding off at 175 Attack+ soon (though I may push it farther, we'll see), and then all clones in training. Only ~16 sextillion Atk at the moment, and with a 70-second Unleash, I'm estimating I need ~50 sextillion Atk to defeat Cybele (not sure what her regen rate is).

> *Originally posted by **[NathanW909](/forums/2874/topics/661063?page=2#11302536)**:*
> Yeah, that makes sense. I'll keep this updated when I finish RB2. I'm a little over 7 days in so far, which means around 3 days of grinding purely for Cybele right now, and it's still looking quite a ways off. I'm at 80 Mighty Statues, almost 1000 Might, rounding off at 175 Attack+ soon (though I may push it farther, we'll see), and then all clones in training. Only ~16 sextillion Atk at the moment, and with a 70-second Unleash, I'm estimating I need ~50 sextillion Atk to defeat Cybele (not sure what her regen rate is).
It looks to me like your unleash is too long, unleash time suffers greatly from diminishing returns.
Regen per second is equal to god's defense divided by 20.2. When you use that in your calculations make sure to account for the fact that combat is scaled down by 5.05 seconds. So if Cybele is 625 sextillion defense, her regen is 30.94 sextillion/sec. With 50 sextillion Atk, your Atk with unleash is 1500 sextillion. Minus defense it's 875 sextillion. Divid by 5.05 sec, it's 173.3 sextillion damage /sec. Minus regen it's 142.4 sextillion / sec. With 70 seconds you get 9968 sextillion which is a little shy of the 10000 you need.
I wouldn't push Attack+ past a round 175, I think physical training should be your focus.

Thanks for the numbers! I was aware that actual damage on bosses seemed to be Atk/5, though I couldn't figure out why. I pushed the unleash because I was going for more Might overall, and I was balancing out everything that went quickly; then it seemed reasonable to me to push the last couple skills a bit farther to balance out the unleash length. It may have been a waste of time. *shrug* I don't plan on doing that long in future RBs anyway. I'm playing a lot of this by ear, and don't know the underlying numbers on things, just what I can see in the game.
One thing that doesn't seem to be adding up, is that I'm only getting 13.5 quad/s Physical right now, which, with my 175 Atk+, would indicate an Attack increase of 437.4 quintillion in the last 4.5 hours (since I got up), but what I've actually seen is that it's gone from 21.6 sextillion to 24.3 sextillion (2700 quintillion). Where does the difference come from? I would have spent less time on Might and more on just training Phys earlier if I had correct calculations for the Phys values, but I thought I needed higher multipliers to increase my Attack in any reasonable length of time.

I trained the physical and skills to get all the 2M achievements and then focused on monuments and to lesser extent Might. It takes 16h 40m to level a training from 0 to 2M, at BB. It takes 3d 11h 20m with BB to reach the 10M mark.

> *Originally posted by **[NathanW909](/forums/2874/topics/661063?page=2#11306258)**:*
> Thanks for the numbers! I was aware that actual damage on bosses seemed to be Atk/5, though I couldn't figure out why. I pushed the unleash because I was going for more Might overall, and I was balancing out everything that went quickly; then it seemed reasonable to me to push the last couple skills a bit farther to balance out the unleash length. It may have been a waste of time. *shrug* I don't plan on doing that long in future RBs anyway. I'm playing a lot of this by ear, and don't know the underlying numbers on things, just what I can see in the game.
>
> One thing that doesn't seem to be adding up, is that I'm only getting 13.5 quad/s Physical right now, which, with my 175 Atk+, would indicate an Attack increase of 437.4 quintillion in the last 4.5 hours (since I got up), but what I've actually seen is that it's gone from 21.6 sextillion to 24.3 sextillion (2700 quintillion). Where does the difference come from? I would have spent less time on Might and more on just training Phys earlier if I had correct calculations for the Phys values, but I thought I needed higher multipliers to increase my Attack in any reasonable length of time.
The physical gain/sec you see on the physical tab doesn't take account of the Total Might bonus. This probably explains the difference. I've been there, I've also spent way too much time on might due to miscalculations.
As for the Atk/5 thing - I don't exactly know the "why" either. But I've done some measurements and the value seems to be around 5.0505 seconds (possibly it's exactly 500/99) . I'll try to do some more measurements, though it's kind of hard since the game only displays numbers to limited precision. I need to do it at the start of a DRC (when my multiplers are known exactly) and with high GP boni (to fine-tune the matching with the god's stats).

> *Originally posted by **[danie2s](/forums/2874/topics/661063?page=2#11308306)**:*
> I trained the physical and skills to get all the 2M achievements and then focused on monuments and to lesser extent Might. It takes 16h 40m to level a training from 0 to 2M, at BB. It takes 3d 11h 20m with BB to reach the 10M mark.
Turning the hours into minutes makes it easier to memorize the time needed.
2millio with BB takes 16h 40m which is 1000 minutes.
10millio with BB takes 3d 11h 20m which is 5000 minutes.
I just found it cool that how exact is that. :)

Cybele down about 6 days after Nephthys, just over 10 days total on RB2. Saving up divinity for a divgen to take down Artemis (need 3-4 ToG, plus divgen will help me get the rest of my creation achievements). Should have that tomorrow, and then I can RB at 11 days or so. I have all training/skills to 2m+, about half to 10m.
UPDATE: Finished RB3 this morning, at just under 6 days. Could have rebirthed last night, but I wouldn't have been ready to get RB4 set up properly before going to bed, so I just waited and used up all my saved divinity on Godly Statues and Pyramids and their upgrades overnight. Rebirthed with ~8.7 octillion Phys/Mystic.

Well this guide is rather 'old' in that it was written before the monuments were changed-pyramid/temple-and before crystals/afky. lomie has rerun UAC since and the guide will be receiving an update very soon. His run was just over 39 days. However I don't remember having softcap up until a day or two before I could down Hathor anyway so not waiting for Hathor seems a waste. Unless softcap is pulled off much faster that is. Granted I haven't played the game in a year or so.

yeah, just in the middle of trying Holyfire's method, my rb1 was MUCH shorter (~13.5 days), rb'd as soon as i had soft cap, about a day after gefion. could have had hathor in another 3-4 days tops. maybe 2 if i was pushing hard.
def paying for it in rb 2 , as it's taking a long af time to kill cybele (12 days and cybele is still not dead). given me time to get to 800+might (60 second unleash, 150 phys, 40+ in everything else), most 10m achieves in phys, 2m+ in skills.... at least.... :(
once cybele is down, should be an easy run for artemis (as he posted before) between 4x monuments and divgen.
**EDIT: div gen took about 8 hours to get up, another 18 hrs for artemis. very easy.**
but i would not recommend skipping hathor in rb1. those extra 3 days would have saved me nearly a week in rb2.

> *Originally posted by **[Khessy](/forums/2874/topics/661063?page=2#11500649)**:*
> yeah, just in the middle of trying Holyfire's method, my rb1 was MUCH shorter (~13.5 days), rb'd as soon as i had soft cap, about a day after gefion. could have had hathor in another 3-4 days tops. maybe 2 if i was pushing hard.
>
> def paying for it in rb 2 , as it's taking a long af time to kill cybele (12 days and cybele is still not dead). given me time to get to 800+might (60 second unleash, 150 phys, 40+ in everything else), most 10m achieves in phys, 2m+ in skills.... at least.... :(
>
>
> once cybele is down, should be an easy run for artemis (as he posted before) between 4x monuments and divgen.
>
> **EDIT: div gen took about 8 hours to get up, another 18 hrs for artemis. very easy.**
>
> but i would not recommend skipping hathor in rb1. those extra 3 days would have saved me nearly a week in rb2.
Are you playing actively? That is, doing special fights?
Because that changes everything, what I wrote refers strictly to passive play.
(and if not, I don't see how you could beat Hathor in 17 days).

Perhaps I've not read everything here properly but, in RB1, am not entirely sure why you say battle is useless? I'm two days in on my second UAC and battle is contributing 8bn to my 29bn total attack with only a max of 76 clones on it - currently capped to Bunny with 11 on Goblin, 12 on Wolf, 36 on Kobold and 16 on Big Burger. Seems pretty useful to me?

> *Originally posted by **[Pom6](/forums/2874/topics/661063?page=2#11562722)**:*
> Perhaps I've not read everything here properly but, in RB1, am not entirely sure why you say battle is useless? I'm two days in on my second UAC and battle is contributing 8bn to my 29bn total attack with only a max of 76 clones on it - currently capped to Bunny with 11 on Goblin, 12 on Wolf, 36 on Kobold and 16 on Big Burger. Seems pretty useful to me?
If you're only two days in, you probably haven't unlocked all of the physical trainings yet. The rate at which you gain battle stat will remain more or less fixed throughout the RB, but for physical it will increase greatly as you unlock trainings and lower your caps, until the contribution from physical is be vastly more significant than battle. And what matters, for the most part, is your stats at the end of a RB.

> *Originally posted by **[HolyFireEuler](/forums/2874/topics/661063?page=2#11566469)**:*
> > *Originally posted by **[Pom6](/forums/2874/topics/661063?page=2#11562722)**:*
> If you're only two days in, you probably haven't unlocked all of the physical trainings yet. The rate at which you gain battle stat will remain more or less fixed throughout the RB, but for physical it will increase greatly as you unlock trainings and lower your caps, until the contribution from physical is be vastly more significant than battle. And what matters, for the most part, is your stats at the end of a RB.
day 8 - can't remember when i unlocked might but battle still producing a healthy 8% of total attack for a mere handful of clones ... still reckon it's not to be dismissed ;)

> *Originally posted by **[HolyFireEuler](/forums/2874/topics/661063?page=2#11308498)**:*
>
> As for the Atk/5 thing - I don't exactly know the "why" either. But I've done some measurements and the value seems to be around 5.0505 seconds (possibly it's exactly 500/99) . I'll try to do some more measurements, though it's kind of hard since the game only displays numbers to limited precision. I need to do it at the start of a DRC (when my multiplers are known exactly) and with high GP boni (to fine-tune the matching with the god's stats).
Not sure where you get this from ... original was that damage threshhold was 1.0015 x defence and regen 0.5 x defence, giving actual damage after regen of attack - 1.5015xdefence. I am still having issues though - gods not dying as soon as I predict they should so perhaps Ryu has made a change I am not aware of?

> *Originally posted by **[Pom6](/forums/2874/topics/661063?page=2#11596822)**:*
> > *Originally posted by **[HolyFireEuler](/forums/2874/topics/661063?page=2#11308498)**:*
> >
> > As for the Atk/5 thing - I don't exactly know the "why" either. But I've done some measurements and the value seems to be around 5.0505 seconds (possibly it's exactly 500/99) . I'll try to do some more measurements, though it's kind of hard since the game only displays numbers to limited precision. I need to do it at the start of a DRC (when my multiplers are known exactly) and with high GP boni (to fine-tune the matching with the god's stats).
>
> Not sure where you get this from ... original was that damage threshhold was 1.0015 x defence and regen 0.5 x defence, giving actual damage after regen of attack - 1.5015xdefence. I am still having issues though - gods not dying as soon as I predict they should so perhaps Ryu has made a change I am not aware of?
>
From my own observation and measurements. I'm sure you'll notice that gods take about x5 as much time to die as you predicted.
Which is what I said - An attack of, say, 100M actually translates to 20M units of damage per second. The time scale factor for combat is about 5 seconds.
But defense is on the same scale as a attack. That is, 100M defense exactly cancels out 100M attack. So damage rate is (Attack-Defense) / (5 second). And on top of that you have regen which is roughly mystic/(20 seconds) (for gods, defense/(20 seconds)).
But, the thing is, it's not exactly 5 seconds. It's roughly 5.05 seconds, and so far I don't know a much more accurate value. I intend to make better measurements sometime in the future, it's quite tricky to set up the experiment since the game only displays numbers with limited precision.
I've been playing the game for almost a year, not as long as you, but it's been this way for as long as I remember. I don't know if it was different before my time. If you have a reference for other discussions on this topic, I'll be happy to see them.

> *Originally posted by **[HolyFireEuler](/forums/2874/topics/661063?page=2#11600443)**:*
>
> From my own observation and measurements. I'm sure you'll notice that gods take about x5 as much time to die as you predicted.
>
> Which is what I said - An attack of, say, 100M actually translates to 20M units of damage per second. The time scale factor for combat is about 5 seconds.
>
> But defense is on the same scale as a attack. That is, 100M defense exactly cancels out 100M attack. So damage rate is (Attack-Defense) / (5 second). And on top of that you have regen which is roughly mystic/(20 seconds) (for gods, defense/(20 seconds)).
>
> But, the thing is, it's not exactly 5 seconds. It's roughly 5.05 seconds, and so far I don't know a much more accurate value. I intend to make better measurements sometime in the future, it's quite tricky to set up the experiment since the game only displays numbers with limited precision.
>
> I've been playing the game for almost a year, not as long as you, but it's been this way for as long as I remember. I don't know if it was different before my time. If you have a reference for other discussions on this topic, I'll be happy to see them.
Thanks HFE - so much more dedicated than me. I've always preferred to use other people's data ;) Mine came originally from a player who had stopped playing by the time I started, via people who used to be in chat (and the formidable Arty who of course still does appear on special occasions). No clue whether Richfest had access to Ryu original data - know he did share some with some privileged users. This is Richfest's spreadsheet as shared with me:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13_vZzEL6Vk1RBs89HFWmG4Z_VxhK3BtGOvwLZWdDhGw/edit?pli=1#gid=949317294
Things have changed massively since then (eg you get a bonus from every upgrade rather than every four) but no clue why the data on God's sheet is no longer valid as it was when I used it for spreadsheet that got wiped when blinking local IT geeks were asked to get my laptop working ... STILL so cross they replaced win7 with win8 ... Anyway, hope you will enjoy a glimpse into how the game was when it started and perhaps Ryu will some day own up to how it's actually coded.