In my opinion a competitive quake scene/pro players might produce some good tourneys and streams but it will NOT bring back the quake community...

I disagree that the golden age of QUAKE was the relatively short period of time that quake 3 was at the height of it's competitive popularity, and that this period of time is essentially what future quakes should strive for...

The pool of players who were part of the competitive tdm and ctf leagues were fun to watch, but were in no way the majority of the players.

The belief that this group of 'the most skilled / competitive' players is the most important thing to recapture also brings up this idea of 'don't split the community' and 'don't allow too many game modes because it will split the community' in new quake games, which I think is COMPLETELY backwards and wrong way to think about QUAKE.

The best part of quake 1, quake 2, quake 3, and in my opinion what brought and kept the vast majority players, has always been the customizability, whether via mods, via configs, via console commands etc, other FPS games always felt so restrictive after playing quake. It was NOT the competitive scene that made quake popular.

You could join 1 server and there would be runes, another server would have low gravity, another would have super powerful weapons, another server would have crazy bizarre homemade maps, you could play CA, CTF, DM, etc etc

This was true for quake 1, 2 and 3 and is the fucking life blood of QUAKE, it's frustrating watching all the Quake Champions hate for not having balanced competitive modes but then people point to the solution that quake needs some sort of competitive scene, like that would bring back the quake community. The large communities in past quakes were built around mods, customizability, freedom, literally the things that allow a community to be a community, this does not look possible in QC so I am holding out hope that a future quake embraces this again and allows people to create content and customize.

I realize it's not an AFPS and I haven't actually played minecraft but from small bits and pieces I've seen it seems very popular and follows the idea of being highly customizable / moddable game and has a large community, so it seems there are still people out there willing to spend their own time making mods for games for free if you give them the freedom and tools.

Truth of the matter is you could emulate the quake you want with any previous version that exists already. You dont need to thirst for unqualified people of the abomination of what id Software has become today to throw crums at you. But you are sheep and you need to Follow a leader.

probably doing insane stuff and continue quake 3 arenas legacy.
im not talking about the game could be similar to the fortnite, pubg or cs playersnumbers. but i think such a quake game could reach about 50k players. with that amount of players, you would have an super casual base for different mods made by the community and id could still host some tournaments for the pros besides that.
for me the formula looks really easy but somehow id doesnt see it.

ye you can have that when player pool is as great as it was. Every1 played back then cuz it was the thing to play besides cs and later sc1.
... and players switch games to the next big thing ...like they played wow and a big portion started playing lol. QC came out limping at but playable and then they made the hype to quick and it kinda all watred down, due to limping at the first place.

And i think more live competitions will help expose quake more, but planning events and make events interesting is the real key. A good event isn't only made by a good game/matches, it needs the energy and atmosphere of tense suspense and shouting and relaxed fun with a little bit of tezing. All that can be enhanced with a good design of the stage. Position of casters, players, displays, dynamic stage, solid branding and also getting help with an charismatic uprising streamer will help tying everything together on stage or just in-between switching between games, casters, interviews, integrated in the whole production.

if id confidence level in their research for how to boost productions value isnt at par, they should def get a design firm, that made the bethesda brand, those guyz know how visual communication is done, bethesda brand visualy is nevtral (that is corporate design), but its made very clean, simple, easy to remember. Which shows them dudes knew, how to do a project research.

Games need to have engaging and fun environments the typical casual individual gamer or group of 4-5 friends can be involved in together. There still needs to be a competitive scene but most people don't really care about a 500k tournament they don't play in or follow.

Maybe the best thing that could happen is that all the top duelers get together and agree to boycott any future tournaments by not entering. That would allow the game to die off a lot quicker and end this painful version of `Quake`.

Too hard to cast properly due to Quakes chaotic nature. Does not appeal enough to the masses.

Also prize money budget too sparse to reward players according to their effort. No real incentive for newcomers to grind teammodes hard to get to the required level to contest the veterans for some breadcrumbs and pocketmoney. Waste of time unless you're from a 3rd world country and 20 bucks is your weeks' salary.

I think that quake scene is actually not competitive at all. Who can compete in QL or QC? Only just a few duelers. 99.99% of playerbase is entierly thrown out of competition.

But competition is actually fun for everyone. Focus on dueling is bad, focus on top tier players is bad. There should be casual deathmatch and instagib tourneys in which ordinary players can compete within skill matched tier. For team modes, draft tournaments can be organized.

Unfortunately, game doesn't offer features for such competitions. It's extremely hard to organize them and make them findable for players; participants need to deal with badly designed websites and apply much effort to follow through their games / track results / etc. With the existing rate of development it's not likely that id software can react before the game dies.

QC tournaments now expressly do not seek competition for everyone. This year tournaments will have "open qualifiers", meaning that players will have to pay their trips themselves, and that to qualify on-site. Therefore only sponsored players will be able to compete (qualify+attend).

It's not exactly everyones dream to play at tournaments for prize money. There's plenty of competitive games out there where people play for fun among friends, like clan wars back in Quake World/Quake 2/Quake 3 days.

I don't think anyone really minds having professional players who are 20 times better as them as long as there is a scene where you can play competitive matches against similar skilled opponents and sometimes even much better ones (Barrysworld, Clan Base, etc. leagues of the past). The new Quake just doesn't have any of that, because the team modes are utter trash.

And P4r4 is right, duels are not for everyone, in fact I'd say they aren't for the majority of gamers. Most enjoy team based games, where not everything is dependent on you alone.

Look at Rainbow Six Siege, Counter Strike, etc. for examples of successful modern competitive games. I know CS:Go isn't exactly modern, but they stuck to their formula of CS when they put out revisions of the same game, same route Quake should have taken if they wanted to stay relevant among fans of the series.

I agree. I think any game that is fun (and sufficiently complex/deep) enough will become competitive as a result of people playing it a lot. Trying to make it "competitive" is putting the cart before the horse.

quake is done, its not trendy
it never was (maybe a few months in 1999)
it was only the first esport, and thats is
pubg, cs, dota, lol, overwatch, paladins, starcraft
all this games are way better esports

I think previous quakes rock solid engines and physics systems coupled with being open and moddable really attracted people who wanted to create, this gave us team fortress and rocket arena and a million other mods

Then it also allowed the developer side of the community to work with the competitive side and create things like OSP and CPMA

I stuck with the previous quakes for so long because of all that, when people would ask why I was still playing quake I would point to the engine and physics, which other games just couldn't match, unfortunately this foundation isn't in QC and it makes it feel much less quake-like, they seem to focus much more on the semblance of a competitive AFPS but missed the basics that attracted people to quake in the first place

Carmack could have just as easily done the same with doom and quake but he believed in sharing unlike corporations. It’s almost preposterous that doom and quake had such freedom when 99 percent of all game developers would choose to be greedy with their product.

I think the main problem that quake has is that the pickups and the competitive scene is what kept Q3, Q4, QL etc. on life support, along with RA3 and CA in QL. Now id started with focusing on the competitive scene in QC and forcing their vision of a competitive team mode on all the players. Only "casual" mode was TDM, which has never been all that popular in pub play compared to the true casual modes like CA, FT etc.

While a healthy competitive scene is required, Quake was also about building communities around servers, which is no longer possible in QC. The sad part is that the mods are what made quake popular in the long run, not id's base version. Now days id makes all the "mods" and their dev team for QC hasn't done a good job so far. QC needs casual modes and better technical performance if it wants to survive.

Of course! The whole foundation of the competitive scene was the local servers and competitions, modding communities, and important individuals who devoted time to organizing community events. This is what we refer to as the all-important playerbase. With QC there is almost nothing to sustain the interest of players, in large part because there is no way of improving the core product. And that doesn't just involve modding and mapping - it's also about community consultation, which the original quake games actually had. I have seen almost no actual or sincere correspondence between the developer and potential players in this absolute fuckup of a development cycle.

No you should not drown the game in custom servers and 1000's of different game mode. Segmentation only makes sense if the playerbase is big enough. Quake's playerbase is not even big enough for Sacrifice / CTF, 2v2, 1v1, FFA and Instagib, so let's make it even harder to find a competitive match, by forcing competitive players to retire early from the game. Instead we should make it moddable and make custom Naruto feat Fred Flintstones servers, and let this game be completely overrun by casuals. Or maybe they could just go to steam shop and find 1000 other casual games they can play from their couch with a joystick and speakers - oh wait I know a game that perfectly fits that description, Fortnite?

my experience is the playerbase comes from having lots of choice and options and interesting variety, then some of those 'casuals' catch the bug and go down the competitive rabbit hole, not the other way around

You need to turn back time, so that 40-50 years guys become young again and have all the time in the world to play games while the newer lobotomized generation go back to suck their moms' tits.

Doom3 innovative multiplayer got dissed down because some flaws that could easily be avoided and its great action was considered not good enough, because... maps were too small? Think about.

Troika who made some of the best games ever -despite the technological flaws -went down around 2003-2005. Like really?

Since 2010 I only had the opportunity to experience really two new great games with true potential, but unfortunately these games did not survive, I think they remained in alpha-beta stage -I am talking about Deadbreed and Nosgoth.

Then I experienced a few games with potential but still remain mediocre because gameplay mechanics is not complex enough -Legends of Eisenwald and... ?

Everything else that came out, especially if its very successful is trash.

Culture changed or better said died, times changed and our civilization go to hell really fast. What will replace this will be a mockery of human civilization with younger and younger adulated imbeciles, a genetically (racially) downgraded already specie realized in social laboratories aka "diverse" cities through bad intermixes and bad socio-cultural experiments. A few years ago (in the 90s) this would have sound overdramatic to the border of insanity, now it is just so, here, crystal clear.

There is also one thing that changed in nowadays online gaming. People are gathered in groups rather than individuals. Games focused on 1v1 have and will always have a hard time to gather huge audience because of it. Social aspect of gaming is more important than ever before.

Now even girls play some team games and even when they suck at it a little bit there's usually someone in the lobby to carry them and let them be satisfied with won matches.

My opinion on the matter, they need to release Quake from it's ownership at iD Software and Bethesda before the game completely sucks ass. I think this community has the heart and mind to put in it's own hours into producing a very well designed Quake game just as much as iD Software. QC is a good idea, it united various different Quake communities. It even brought some UT players over for the competition. The issue is going right back to the OP, there has never been a Quake game that is perfect from stock design. They've never fully trusted the communities interests at heart, so they do their best making a game that has some of what we want but not all of it. That is an issue, at Bethesda, it isn't a true democracy. There are plans they make, and when the community says it isn't working the right way, they have set backs and they strike from another approach. However, they almost never say 'okay, we'll do it the way you want.' They will never fix QC, and even if they did it would still take a few years.

I play Quake Live duel because I find that the more I solve the puzzle, the more relaxing and overall enjoyable it is to play it. So for me, it stays fresh for eternity. I take some things from what I see in demos\vods, or I learn from my mistakes or opponent's mistakes to create a more fluid plan. That fluidity in my game just becomes more and more natural as I play and watch, and it helps me actually enjoy the game more whereas when I go and play something like CA or QC, I feel like I am busting my balls for a little fun. To me, the word casual is non existent. Duel pays the player for their efforts. So I would imagine a player as educated and fluid as Rapha sees duel as casual fun year round until he hits QuakeCon. It probably feels like a light workout for him. To me casual Quake is more like playing duel against someone slightly or lesser skilled. Even CA can be a little bit challenging if you're actually trying to win. But with Duel, if you just understand the in's and out's of the gameflow, it is as easy to win as anything else.

"My opinion on the matter, they need to release Quake from it's ownership at iD Software and Bethesda before the game completely sucks ass"

It doesn't have to have Quake in the title. It definitely help in terms of branding and marketing but it is not obligatory. I'm hoping 2GD will finally release the game. It may be what we need however it will be extremely hard to reach even the QC number of players without huge investment in advertisement.