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I thought Prime Time any time was all based on recording from ONE Transponder all channels, it has nothing to do with recording a set of stations on those stations on that transponder.

Thus, once release and the bug fixed PTAT will work as it knows that transponder to record and it knows what channels in that transponder map to the network for the menu of PTAT.

Now for the big question. Why is the OTA Tuner sooooo late.I am ready to switch to dish now that AMC is back up. But I want to watch Star Trek on METV (a sub channel) and my local weather (a sub channel) and PBS and the CW in HD, DIsh only has SD

I thought Prime Time any time was all based on recording from ONE Transponder all channels, it has nothing to do with recording a set of stations on those stations on that transponder.

If I recall correctly, that has been clarified. The four feeds of interest are recorded from that one transponder (per market) not the whole transponder. PTAT has changed from the initial release ... so some things may have been different in the original.

Now for the big question. Why is the OTA Tuner sooooo late.

A good question ... hopefully the answer will be another question: Why WAS the OTA Tuner sooooo late. Although if it is buggy at release the answer to the new question may be self evident.

The OTA and satellite tuners are not the same device. PTAT will not use the OTA tuner ... that is part of the documentation and has been explained. But I see no technical reason why PTAT for satellite feeds cannot co-exist with a separate OTA tuner. It co-exists with two separate satellite tuners.

I have also noticed that a lot of SD markets are set up with the channel flags used for PTAT and AutoHop. Perhaps AutoHop will be available for OTA? One can dream.

I don't even know why anyone would try to connect PTAT in any way with an OTA option. I've never seen or read anything to indicate that you should assume any connection between them.

Given what Dish has said about OTA thus far... I am assuming support for some kind of USB thumb tuner like what you can get for your PC... and if it works like that, I would assume it is like adding an extra tuner... so instead of 3 SAT... you'd have 3 SAT + 1 OTA.

I would also assume that during PTAT you would have 2 SAT, 1 OTA, and then that 3rd SAT tuner continues to record the "big four" LiLs.

A lot of assumptions on my part... but frankly, it seems like assuming anything else doesn't make much sense based on the way Dish has implemented things thus far.

How easy you're confusing by simple things ...
Let see what channel's lineup would be with a OTA tuner: is someone ready to show me the list ? In that part where is local channels ? How you would ask the buggy FW to distinguish ABC,NBC,etc between sat and OTA? Same time same program, same channel's numbers ...

How easy you're confusing by simple things ...Let see what channel's lineup would be with a OTA tuner: is someone ready to show me the list ? In that part where is local channels ? How you would ask the buggy FW to distinguish ABC,NBC,etc between sat and OTA? Same time same program, same channel's numbers ...

How easy you're confusing by simple things ...Let see what channel's lineup would be with a OTA tuner: is someone ready to show me the list ? In that part where is local channels ? How you would ask the buggy FW to distinguish ABC,NBC,etc between sat and OTA? Same time same program, same channel's numbers ...

Ever notice how via satellite locals are listed in the EPG GUI as -00? For example 16-00?Ever notice how OTA channels use -01, -02, etc and not -00 for ATSC broadcasts?

Every DISH ViP receiver with an OTA tuner (built in or add in module) manages to display the satellite -00 channels and the OTA -01, -02, etc channels. I'm pretty sure that DISH has it figured out for the Hopper.

Hmm... so Dish has had integrated OTA for years... then made OTA an optional module for the 722K... then carried that forward with the 922 and brand new GUI... then built the Hopper off the 922 GUI...

and we are to believe that suddenly ALL the Echostar engineers suddenly took stupid pills and forgot everything about integrating OTA into receivers for Dish?

Really?

Are we actually having that conversation?

Why would the integration into the EPG be any different than past implementations? Why would you even want it to be? And why would the PTAT routines that are programmed to look at a particular transponder for SAT signals even care whether you have OTA connected or not?

It will conflict with PTAT because PTAT will not support the ability to record OTA as part of its function, thus no OTA, also seeing as I do have inside knowledge and have already had a beta test sent out to my field office to test it and see if it was a viable possibillitiy for the H/J and found the said conflict. I'm sure if cust complain enough about the OTA the software engineers could work out the quirks to allow a OTA to be useful but in all honesty,

This makes no sense to me at all. What does PTAT have to do with an OTA tuner? We all know PTAT can't work using the OTA tuner because the OTA tuner is a single-channel device. But that does not mean an OTA tuner is useless. As many have pointed out, there are sub channels Dish does not carry, and some people can receive channels from neighboring markets with an antenna that licensing rules prohibit Dish from providing. Personally, I believe I get better picture quality with an antenna than with Dish's HD LiL, though others believe differently.

Hmm... so Dish has had integrated OTA for years... then made OTA an optional module for the 722K... then carried that forward with the 922 and brand new GUI... then built the Hopper off the 922 GUI...

and we are to believe that suddenly ALL the Echostar engineers suddenly took stupid pills and forgot everything about integrating OTA into receivers for Dish?

Really?

Are we actually having that conversation?

Why would the integration into the EPG be any different than past implementations? Why would you even want it to be? And why would the PTAT routines that are programmed to look at a particular transponder for SAT signals even care whether you have OTA connected or not?

Perhaps smart engineers left the company and new 'stupid' replacement (read low-entry) start messing with the integration.

This makes no sense to me at all. What does PTAT have to do with an OTA tuner? We all know PTAT can't work using the OTA tuner because the OTA tuner is a single-channel device. But that does not mean an OTA tuner is useless. As many have pointed out, there are sub channels Dish does not carry, and some people can receive channels from neighboring markets with an antenna that licensing rules prohibit Dish from providing. Personally, I believe I get better picture quality with an antenna than with Dish's HD LiL, though others believe differently.

Because PTA is picking _channels_ from EPG. And it should pick OTA in case if dish is not carry such channel(s)."We all know" is not right aggregation.

Because PTA is picking _channels_ from EPG. And it should pick OTA in case if dish is not carry such channel(s)."We all know" is not right aggregation.

No. PTAT is picking _programs_ from the the transponder that provides the big four LiL, and copying those programs to the PTAT folder. It is not able to record 4 different transponders, because the Hopper only has three tuners, which can only select programming from 3 transponders. Dish is working some magic to make the Hopper record 4 programs from the same transponder at the same time. The only way Dish could provide PTAT with OTA is for the OTA tuner module to have 4 tuners, not the one they've decided the Hopper will get. Thus, it stands to reason that "we all know" PTAT will not work with the OTA module, because the "magic" that permits PTAT to work on satellite will not also work on broadcast systems, vis a vis recording 4 streams with a single tuner.

If Dish does not carry a local big 4 network affiliate, they typically do not provide EPG data for it, so how could PTAT choose a channel from the EPG that is not in the EPG to begin with? What you propose is additional functionality that would be possible to code, but is not a conflict if it is not written.

Perhaps smart engineers left the company and new 'stupid' replacement (read low-entry) start messing with the integration.

That's a dangerous and libelous statement. Even if you have inside knowledge that you aren't sharing with the rest of us... I wouldn't say something like that as a blanket statement about current employees of any company.

Because PTA is picking _channels_ from EPG. And it should pick OTA in case if dish is not carry such channel(s)."We all know" is not right aggregation.

Says who? How do you know what PTAT is doing? Putting aside for the moment that I do not believe you are in any way correct with your assertion... on what are you basing this?

Whoa, your response is a little over the top Stewart. It's just one guy's opinion. He wasn't even making an assertion, he stated: "Perhaps..." There is such a thing as freedom of speech after all.

It's just [well known] one of dirty PR methods to bring down your opponent when you have nothing to say factually.I'm skipping his buffonades and escapades as a miniscule noise of moscitos around CPU inside of a computer ... hehe

It's just [well known] one of dirty PR methods to bring down your opponent when you have nothing to say factually.I'm skipping his buffonades and escapades as a miniscule noise of moscitos around CPU inside of a computer ... hehe

It's just [well known] one of dirty PR methods to bring down your opponent when you have nothing to say factually.

Is that not what YOU are doing with your consistent insults of DISH engineers?Just dirty statements insulting people you don't know about work you don't know much about?

From your hacking (not signal theft, just old school hacking) you told us months ago which tuner the Hopper would support. Can you tell us which firmware version first could actively use a USB tuner? Or can I add that to the list of things you don't know?

Is that not what YOU are doing with your consistent insults of DISH engineers?Just dirty statements insulting people you don't know about work you don't know much about?

From your hacking (not signal theft, just old school hacking) you told us months ago which tuner the Hopper would support. Can you tell us which firmware version first could actively use a USB tuner? Or can I add that to the list of things you don't know?

See, Reaper, here another [now more subtle] PR trick: skew from technical standpoint of discussion ["Can you tell us which firmware version first could actively use a USB tuner?"] to create negative perception of the opponent - add some negativity to the person: "From your hacking".

Anyway, my personal definition of these SW coder who still making same buggy product for a few generation of devices is supporting by a literal myriad of posts here and there...

Hacking isn't a bad thing ... theft is, which is why I specifically excluded theft when I complimented you on your work. But the ability to peek under the hood and inside the firmware that is freely available via satellite isn't a crime. Don't take a compliment as an insult. I wish the term hacker was not used for thieves. It can be a noble pursuit.

Yes. When the OTA USB tuner will be in my hands, I'll answer to other questions.

For now I'll not get deeper then to say: these SW ppl has no honor nor integrity as engineers when they're making not just SW coding, but when they're fabricating evaluations by VP requests. Follow to totally disgusting corporate 'ethics'.