It's legitimate 'snobbery'. Rugby is too posh, and it holds the game back. Which is why every second professional team in the world has a Rugby League defensive coach, because it's a tough working class game where in-your-face, defence-with-intent is the standard, a game where malice and athleticism is rewarded and coached.

It's not a problem with the game I've invented, it's a documented problem that people are in denial about. Why else are rugby league coaches working at every level of the game showing the posh sort how to tackle properly?

What are the specifics of tackling rules, I need a little clarification before I decide. Because there isn't any doubt that's a messy tackle, but I'm wondering if rugby has anything similar to League rules which would explain the lack of action against Tuifua, whether written or not. I know that in league what matters is the point of contact, therefore if you make a textbook tackle and belt someone in their shoulder, and for some reason you happen to go higher, so long as it's deemed to be accidental and the result of the initial contact then you're usually excused.

As far as I'm aware there is no such common sense in rugby, so really he's very lucky to get away with this, even though initial contact was shoulder to shoulder.

As an aside, Vunipola did nothing wrong. He ran in and gave Tuifua a nothing-push after the tackle, which is what the majority of players are coached to do these days, so that the incident is brought to the referees attention and ruled on(so to stop the attacking play too.) Then a phase or two later Vunipola is out of the ruck and Tuifua comes from nowhere and basically dives on the man. He was well entitled to give him a punch or two. Soft commentators are soft.

The other English commentator gives a great insight into why the game has gotten as pathetically soft as it is though. Bunch of oxbridge-types trying to pander to "soccer moms"

NH rugby is seriously weak. There really ought to be a breakaway with the professional, tough SH players taking the game forward professionally under a new name. And the eton types up north playing their glorified mud-wrestling like girls until their hearts content. The NH holds back rugby so, so much.

When he threw the second punch he definitely used his head purposely imo, and that will be the one that cut him if you were to ask me. But I know others aren't going to clock on or acknowledge that it was done on purpose (we're a smarter breed of dirty rugby players lol) so I thought I'd cover all basis with the inevitable "it came in contact accidentally" calls that will come

Dowling - Tamati indeed, you don't have to look that far back though, there was a fight in League last year between Manly and Storm that was a carbon copy of this and Tamati - Dowling.

Interesting that you don't think red should get anything, even though he opened up green with a significant headbutt. Headbutts are always worth bans no matter the circumstance, don't think i can recall anyone getting away with using the head in a scrap.

I would say 2 weeks for green 2 and 8. Hamilton I expect will receive the longest ban. He was provoked, but that isn't a defence, it didn't work for Manu Tuilagi when Ashton ran up and gave him a push while kneeing him in his back, can't see how it will work for Hamilton, especially when you factor in his use of the head(even though it looked more clumsy than anything, but that defence doesn't work in boxing either)

Most other referees seem to manage it. However in this case I agree that Owens couldn't have done what he did any other way, but it's like the boy who's cried wolf, he loves to bring attention to him so much that when in normal incidents like this people will believe him to be a drama queen still.

There's no inferiority complex. England has an athletic pool to shame most countries, the problem is none of them are in Rugby.

The working class white population and the large West African and Caribbean population in England would make for a team that could athletically hang with anyone.

The problem is none of them are playing the game. Where as in places like NZ they get a pick of the best athletes in the country, in England the best athletes want nothing to do with the game. That's a sad truth.

It's easy to mock me, it's much more difficult to argue me wrong.

There are 2 ways the argument falls, we either agree the English game is full of upper class sorts because they're better athletes, or we agree the game is full of upper class sorts because the working class community aren't playing the game at grass roots.