239. Proved to my fast? I have no idea what that means.

I reiterate: I have never denied white privilege and have stated this multiple times. I have also stated that the term itself (in common usage rather than academic) can be problematic, and I stand by that...but never that the problem it describes isn't very real and something that our society must address. I feel the same way about male privilege, fwiw.

Are these issues of privilege the worst problem we face as a society/culture? Nope...that would be gross capital inequality and the inevitable horror and bloodshed the current economic trends will cause, probably sooner rather than later. However, addressing issues of privilege would also be part of the solution to that larger problem.

229. White people are behind racism and privilege and only white people can resolve said issues

232. Uh no....why is it ONLY White people.....I do not agree at all....

There were White people who marched with Martin Luther King...there were White people on the buses into the South to register voters....there were White abolitionists even some during the Underground Railroad.

White people can be a part of the solution yes......but they cannot change it without first admitting that the problems exist....and that means listening to and accepting what minorities are saying about their experiences.

233. We are saying the same thing, I am saying that someone without privilege cannot solve

the issue, only those with the privilege can address it and resolve it.

Just like no Black person in America, who has no institutional power or societal power, can be a racist since the word racist exists to define power, if you arent in power you arent a racist, you are a bigot...

No Asian person or Latino person can resolve racism, only white can (in america)

217. pintobean's reply implied that the OP was negligent in not mentioning women...

but since the OP is about a specific post by a white male offering a "cure" for white privilege, I was wondering if there was a similar thread posted by a woman, which would then make pintobean's reply more relevant.

224. How about this OP?

Or, the fact that a bunch of white women are all over these threads telling everyone how to think and feel about race issues. Just don't dare let a white "dude" do it. Yeah, I knew it was a call-out of a specific "dude". I also find it hypocritical.

103. Is this a better example of a non sequitur or a red herring?

I vote red herring.

An unsourced, misleading*, red herring.

*I'll follow you this far down the rabbit hole into which you want to derail the conversation: median earnings are not in any way comparable figures unless you correct for hours worked, occupational choice and experience.

128. Exactly. It's the arrogance and presumptuousness that are most of the problem. n/t

146. "... and think it is only they who have the answers..."

We all experience it from different angles, and your comment implies that white people necessarily must not contradict anything you say because you have some kind of automatic credibility that trumps the entire experience of any white male. You are basically saying not only that minorities exclusively hold the answer, but that whites have nothing to contribute at all. Talk about condescending.

By your logic, men have no right to doubt Sarah Palin's view of what a woman ought to be, either. Utter horseshit.

P.S. Discussion is a two-way road. If you don't want to share the road, it's not discussion you're looking for in the first place.

P.P.S. I am a white male who acknowledges and regrets the existence of white privilege. By telling me that, by virtue of my race and gender, I am the problem, you are espousing racist views on a liberal message board. Take a moment to replace your self-righteousness with a little shame, if only for a microsecond.

152. "White dudes"

That's the group you call out. I'm part of that group.

Why is it okay to attack all "white dudes" and then claim innocence because you really just meant the assholes who are white?

If I posted an OP condemning "black folks" for some activity that I ascribe to all of them, would the post even survive long enough for me to backpeddle like you did? Fuck no. That would be racist. Just like what you've said.

150. P.S. It does DU a serious disservice...

...when someone like you comes along to start a flamebait thread, and makes sure to reply to every contrary viewpoint NOT with a thoughtful, considered response...but rather with contemptuous and dismissive one-liners. It's beneath us as a community.

You've lumped myself and a lot of decent people in with a bad crowd because of your willingness to generalize in ways that would SIMPLY OUTRAGE you if the tables were turned.

If you can't give a serious response to those of us who call your inflammatory bullshit, you shouldn't bother posting at all.

33. As someone upthread said, "listening to minority communities on the issue"

71. I am listening, but there doesn't seem to be any unified message...

Outside here on DU that is.

Here the alpha and omega seems to be semantics, with advocates insisting that they be allowed to establish the parameters of debate and the language used. In any case, I believe that white privilege is very real, but I think it is more useful to discuss this in terms of specific defined ADVANTAGES. I do not, however, insist that anyone else agree with me, nor do I believe that these terminology wars are useful unless the goal is to stifle debate and dismiss opinion.

142. Acknowledgment. And before you say, "Fine I acknowledge it so it's cured,"

what I mean is that it needs to be acknowledged by the privileged in response to the situation in which the privilege was wielded. The privileged need to make it socially unacceptable among themselves to use the privilege, and need to point out its unacceptable nature when they see it occurring.

For example if, as recently happened to me, I am at a real estate open house, and a black couple arrives and the realtor makes a side remark to me that the couple will probably not be comfortable in the neighborhood, nudge, nudge, as a member of the privileged group, I need to be vocal about the fact that her attitude toward them lost her my business. She doesn't want the business of the non-privileged group. She does want my business. They can't create a change in her behavior. I can. The non-privileged group, by definition, cannot end privilege. Only the privileged group can.

Another example: smart, obviously well educated, adult people on a discussion board discuss their first hand experiences with privilege and how profoundly they have been affected by them. Some jackass, without any first hand experience of that privilege, comes along and tells them that the experiences either didn't occur, or were not important, or were not examples of white privilege, or they say that white privilege doesn't exist. One step to cure white privilege is if we all avoid being that jackass.

174. It goes quite a bit beyond these limited examples, and that's the problem...

The things you described are not privilege, they are just racism, and hopefully we all challenge that evil whenever and wherever we see it. Privilege is more subtle. Privilege is knowing that a black guy, no matter how talented he is, probably cannot do what I do for a living. Because he is black, and white people are not going to trust him the way they trust me. And more, when its midnight and he is walking back to his car in the dark, when he walks past the police he has to wonder if he will be rousted for being black, whereas I feel only relief that they are there to protect me. And that's why they are there, to protect me, the white guy. And from who? You already know the answer.

So how do you fix this? Where do you have beven begin?

For individuals it's easy. We can try to root out our personal prejudices and destroy them, but we can only do this where it makes sense. Cops profile, and so do I. When I am walking back to my car at midnight and I spot a college girl jogging I am not concerned for MY safety, but hers. You can call that a privilege if you like. She, on the other hand, might not feel the same about me. Seeing me there might just scare the hell out of her, not because she hates men or me personally, but because other men have given her cause to react this way. So what do we do?

For myself, I am just going to continue to treat people the way I want to be treated. I can try to be understanding and compassionate, and help other people the way I have been helped in my own life. Beyond that I don't have any good answers.

223. No. The things I describe are privilege. The others experienced racism. I experienced privilege.

And basically, your post says, yes I experience privilege, but I have no intention of doing anything different in response to it.

I suspect that there is nothing I can write to which you won't respond, "No, that's not privilege and there's nothing I can do about privilege."

So my last word on this is to say, for yourself, maybe you could add an activity: quit posting posts that are designed to shut down the conversation among people when they are discussing white privilege. Especially people of color who are discussing their lack of privilege.

176. Did I ask about reason?

206. Your claim is that reason has zero value

If people have "no idea" what an experience is like unless they have experienced it, then those who have apparently are incapable of articulating those experiences in a way that someone else can understand.

So if this were actually true, then what is the point of discussing these things?

237. So were back full circle now

You obviously feel the subject is beyond the scope of reason and feel the need to misrepresent the person you were responding to in order to make your point. I don't really see the point in continuing a discussion that goes back to where it started every couple of posts or so.

20. Yes! "white Dudes" shouldn't offer any thoughts on how to address issues of privilege at all.

That's what we all need to start doing with our privilege issues, dismissing opinions based solely on someone's race, gender, religion or sexual orientation. Only then can we have a society where all people are treated equally!

27. Yep, I did. and now I return to you to your regularly scheduled programming of

It's a Mans World.

Lord knows no one has a more valid opinion than the one given by he. Even when it is he who isn't affected by it.

Try to keep up with the topic. Believe it or not, it really is simple. White men ought not be telling minorities how and why they should feel and then go on to give advice on how to resolve it based on those views that minorities reject.

44. So your issue is with the denial of racial issues, then.

To me, it sounded from your OP like your issue is with "white dudes" opinions, not general uninformed and stupid opinions regardless of race or gender. I'm all on board with having no regard for idiotic opinions regardless of their source.

46. the subject at hand is White Dude Privilege.....

49. Also, it is quite presumptuous for any white person to be proclaiming the CURE

for white privilege.

Especially when the cure they put forward has nothing to do with acknowledging privilege exists. In fact it was and was stated over and over again how words mean nothing, only action does in that thread. When for a week now, we've had nothing but alleged progressives (mostly males) state over and over again how white privilege does not exist, how it is prejudiced to say that it does, and how they don't have any.

62. So?

White men owned their wives until recent history, like the 20th century. Black dudes got the vote before white women. White women have it harder than white men. White men are special in the way that they didn't have to march in the streets and get beat up and arrested just to get the rights that they have. Black people and women had to fight.

184. And then it behooves white women,

of whom I am one, to recognize that black women have met much more resistance than white women. Black women face more entrenched stereotypes, and those stereotypes are different than the ones white women face. White women suffer street harassment because they are objectified and to be 'kept in check', but black women face street harassment on steroids because not only are they objectified, but they also have to contend with the institutional racism that teaches men that black women are, literally, objects to owned.

Some of us realize that that is what checking one's privilege means - to realize that certain characteristics about ourselves means that we have it easier than others with the minority characteristic. It means challenging others with the same privilege when they neglect or refuse to take into account the increased resistance faced by minority groups one does not belong to oneself. Unfortunately, many white feminists have had problems acknowledging the experiences of black women, but they are being challenged these days not only by black feminists and womanists, but also by white feminists that want to be allies to black feminists and womanists.

That is how different privileges play out in real time - we all have different privileges, some more than others. If the only privilege you lack is class, you really need to think before you dismiss others when they tell you about how they experience the world.

Bravenak, I know you already know all these things, so the 'you' is generic. This is less an answer to your post, and more a post that uses your post as a point of departure.

29. As a now middle aged white man who has spent his whole life

fighting for equality, I've got to say it looks like your post is nothing more than trying to divide the people fighting for equality. I don't need to be publicly scorned because I am white or a male. Nor do I need to see other white men publicly scorned on the basis that they are white or male. Perhaps some people have engaged in behavior you find needs discussing in a specific way, like, say, Donald Sterling said something offensive and stupid. But your post is just generally racist.

38. But, it is ok and we should all just remain quiet

about men who give pronounce these cures, when they don't respect the opinion of minorities.

I get it. You could literally take my OP and read it how you would like. But the intention is to point out the massive ego some males must have to think they get to spout cures and everyone ought to listen and lend credence, when they do nothing but deny the privilege they hold. And insult minorities in the process.

123. Personally, I find this "white privilege" meme in the abstract to be viciously

insulting. I've spent 45 years fighting for equality. I find your comments different from the comments of Strom Thurmond only in that he said racist things about all black people, and you are saying racist things about all white men. If find your behavior racist and insulting. If a particular person has done something wrong, call out the specific behavior of that particular person. If there is an institutional practice that you find racist, call out that practice by name and the people who support it by name.

177. Why would you .....have you personally committed racism?

222. I'm a person of plaid complexion with notions that I express

publicly. You tell me, are my notions racist? I certainly do not intend them to be racist, I certainly do not intend to offend anyone. I do not wish to cut in line, I want everyone around me to be the happiest they can be. For liberal causes I've passed petitions, stuffed envelopes, walked-precincts, joined and chaired committees and boards, attended conventions, donated and raised money, registered voters, written and published materials, run for office, held office and many other things. Because equality and respect for others is self-evidently correct.

Are certain people privileged by skin color or birth? George Will is a very good example. Talented at putting sentences together, he was born into a job defending conservatism where approximately one out of three columns he writes are about how black people aren't as worthy as white people. His columns are filled with historical errors. He has never worked a day in his life outside this world of conservative and racist water carrying for his employers. It is the epitome of privileged cluelessness. Every time he talks about race, he would be the good subject of such a discussion. But white men in general are not privileged. Men like George Will and Donald Sterling are. Their racism is not the result of their skin color, or really even their privileged upbringing. It is their lack of respect for the equality of others who weren't born rich and remain self-centered their entire lives, not just through their teenage years. They happen to have a skin color.

242. I think that the way the "white male privilege" debate is being

developed is insulting and racist.

If I am in fact "privileged" by the mere fact of being white and male I'd like to know at what desk, window or counter I go to take a job of someone else and get higher pay to boot. I've never done such a thing or heard of such a thing. I would be happy to investigate the facts if anyone knows of such an arrangement. I can assure you that no one has ever alerted me, a pleasant enough white male of FDR style liberal politics persuasion, that there was such an old boys club available. Let me put in a caveat. I can tell you the names for such clubs for conservative white males. The Federalist Society, the Republican Party, The Bohemian Club, The Olympic Club, Skull & Bones etc. are in fact such arrangements. But they are closed to me and the vast majority of white males. At least I assume so. I wouldn't ask to join a club like that, and I've never been recruited for them despite knowing many of their members. Those are not clubs for any ole white males. They are for conservative white males from the right kind of families (that have money).

I don't get to skip lines at the airport, have limo drivers assume that I am their afternoon customer, get moved ahead in line, get to speak longer, get special treatment of any kind that I know of because I am a white male. I didn't get to be a legacy at university, admitted to any grad school, or hired by any company because I am a white male.

So when someone tells me about all these wonderful privileges, I have to call bullshit. I don't get them, I know of no individual who does get them. What I interpret as a fact from those same statistics are that women and black people and other minorities are discriminated against and oppressed in a great number of ways and that is a fact that should be remedied by law. We can do that by passing laws. We can pass laws by building coalitions, registering voters and voting for liberal candidates and progressive candidates. Votes are counted one at a time. Equal pay laws with teeth behind them will protect all citizens.

This is the dream that we and our forebearers fought for. Many died, many were injured, many psychologically scarred. We are called by this ideal to have high individual character, to treat people not by the color of their skin, but the content of their character. Each individual. Do not smear me and all white people with a quip about "privileged white dude" unless I or a specific person has done something specific.

Many of us know very well and with a heavy heart that good people have suffered, even died, with the last thing they ever heard being a reference to their skin color or ancestors. Please don't even look down that road, don't look down your nose at someone's skin color because they are, as an individual, ignorant and privileged. That kid from Princeton who wrote the piece for time magazine is ignorant and privileged, not because he is white, but because he, as an individual, came from a family with wealth and the privilege that brings and because he is young and ignorant, he doesn't know any better. Whoever flung "check your white privilege" and whoever flings it, is not being thoughtful and respectful and addressing the problem, they are summarizing in a bumper sticker style slogan that diminishes us.

216. Bullshit.

I have no problem with the the concept and only object to the term because its academic meaning and colloquial usage have drifted apart (which created confusion). This line of argument though, with its implications that white men shouldn't propose solutions, is idiotic and counterproductive.

55. Yep. The "white privilege" discussion is becoming poisonous.

I think the OP is upset that rrneck in a separate thread revealed the exhaustion of the WP threads. I think few who demand "checking white privilege" really want to any resolution, or even any improvement. It has become an end in itself.

57. Does *any* one group really have *all* the cure for "white privilege"?

Or rather, the institutional barriers placed in front of People of Color? I don't think so, TBH. Often times, the most social progress is achieved when groups of people set aside their differences to focus on a goal, whether of "normal" status or disadvantaged. Look at the Civil Rights Movement for example.

133. Nobody said they did. But we need to stop splitting hairs over what to label the problem

and actually work on solutions. That much I agree with.

So basically, stop complaining about the phrase "white privilege" because it's not going away. And this isn't directed at you as an individual either, because several posters here have gotten bogged down in quibbling arguments like that.

180. I wasn't one of the ones arguing against anybody's framing.

I was describing other people's reactions, not my own. Sorry if I wasn't clear. Personally I am totally in favor of using the phrase "white privilege" because it's concise and describes a very real phenomenon. Plus I don't feel it's my place as a white person to tell anyone how to talk about racism anyway.

76. That sounds just like how some democrats handled gay marriage.

Say it's between a man and a woman, say it's states rights... to not lose an election. I guess if all gay people hadn't spoken up or said anything, thing would have been way more equal than they are today?

Boy, I would have thought you were way more courageous than what it seems you are.

91. I'm reading through the thread and it's still unclear.

I wanted to ask in my own way, because I feel that often times people phrase their questions in a hostile way because they assume the intentions of others. I try not to assume the intentions of other as much as I possibly can, and much prefer to have explicit confirmations to ensure an understanding of others viewpoints. I find that makes discussions about these sorts of subjects far more enlightening and productive.

DU is a discussion board, and it seems reasonable to believe that your intent was to have your comment/observation discussed. The original post seemed more like a broad statement about white dudes in general, as opposed to a specific instance of a person speaking about something with authority from a point of ignorance. I see references from you in other parts of thread that may suggest you're speaking about a specific instance/person, but then there are other posts that go more toward a more broad statement being made.

So the reason I asked was so I could get a more accurate feeling for what you're getting at, without it being tainted by other's who may have asked similar questions that were tinged with a knee-jerk hostility toward your initial post.

68. Bilge. An idea is an idea is an idea; the colour of the person putting it forward is irrelevant. N.T

78. My solution is

I don't give a crap, about who's yelling it and who's denying it. I really could care less. So why did I reply? Only to let it be known that some of us, and I bet there are quite a few, think it's all complete bullshit and are not going to play this game.

79. The cure won't come

from white dudes. It comes from black dudes overcoming it. President Obama found the cure and took a big dose of it. He won the majority approval of America twice over white privilege. Model yourself after him and succeed.

And FWIW, little old ladies lock their car doors when my ugly white ass walks by too. Wealthy people avoid the lobby doors to their condominium buildings if I'm standing outside waiting to be let in too. The sherrif clubbed me unconscious back in '81 when I got off of my Harley one night for a speeding ticket. Maybe because my Harley was black I don't know. But I can't simply dismiss it or every other time something goes wrong as racist.

140. I agree

But I think how we apply and present ourselves is more important than either. Many people of all races have overcome adversity and moved on to become great successes. More often than not, we're our own biggest obstacle.

172. I don't doubt that plenty of people of all backgrounds sabotage whatever chances they may have

in life, by various means. But focusing too much on individual effort and achievement tends to breed a sense of "I did it, so why can't everyone else???" Which, when we know little to nothing about a person's circumstances, can often be misguided.

186. Individual effort

is our best tool for success. I'll never be more than a greasy mechanic. I've reached my limit. But I'm going to be the best mechanic the company has. I might not have had to jump over that "white privilege" hurdle but, countless blacks have and have advanced far beyond anything I'll ever reach. "What can you do for me" is admitting defeat. "What can I do for you" is opening doors of opportunity for employment or business ownership. It might not be Microsoft, but it will be your success.

94. Your overgeneralization is offensive.

Just because it was a white guy claiming privilege does not exist does not mean all white men cannot productively contribute to the conversation. Would you have all white men stay out of the conversation? Because that seems counterintuitive. Those men need to be drug out of the woodwork and called out for what they are doing. If we shame them into inaction then their aberrant ideas are allowed to fester under the surface. I'm just not sure I see the point of you shaming "white dudes" here. Your post is neither helpful or productive.

108. LOL!

115. I don't making sweeping generalizations about a group of people based on the actions of a few.

And an "s" isn't the only thing I would change about your post.

I am a white guy and have pushed back against the ignorant posts by some about how "white privilege" doesn't exist. I have also pushed back on the erroneous definitions for racism that get bandied about in these discussions. I am your ally here, not your enemy.

173. I think you're on the right track, absolutely. What trips some people up is that "privilege" doesn't

generally consist of obvious benefits or "extras" - and then there's the idea of a straight white non-disabled non-impoverished male playing life on the "easy" setting, whereas a better way to look at it might be as the "default" or "neutral" setting. In the sense that one can simply be considered a "generic" human being with no particular baggage attached, whereas others have all sorts of (usually negative) assumptions made about their character and/or motives. The lack of said baggage is privilege, in a nutshell.

89. As a white dude myself...

There are certain things I have learned:

1. White privilege in our culture is absolutely real. It is pervasive and deeply ingrained.
2. It is so subtle that most of the time I don't perceive it, even when I am benefitting from it.
3. There is no way in Hell I can even imagine what it's like to have lived my entire life on the wrong end of it.

So no, I certainly don't know the cure for this. What I can do is pledge to try to be more aware of it in my everyday life, and do my damndest to not perpetuate it.

136. "But I'm sick of people lambasting me for my whiteness. I didn't choose to be white."

You're certainly far from the first person to have the point sail over your head...

No, you didn't choose to be white, and neither did I. But personally I choose not to be closed off to the experiences and perspectives of those who don't share my skin color (or sexuality). I'm not saying anything about you personally, one way or the other, I'm just saying what I think is really at issue here.

220. Good post

and I'd like to point out that I think #2 is a problem with a lot of people - it's so subtle they deny its very existence and are very defensive when someone suggests that they may benefit from something they don't believe exists. Sadly, by denying its very existence, they perpetuate it. IMO, that is why it's so important to make people aware of what it is...most people, once they are shown, understand. Unfortunately, there will always be a small subset of people who will take the suggestion of privilege as a personal attack on their own life. I don't know if it's because they are being willfully obtuse, or if they are worried subconsciously that acknowledging it means they will no longer benefit from it.

Anyway, I don't know the cure either, but I'm aware of it and I also do my damndest to not perpetuate it.

104. I ran this OP through Google Translate...

When you select the English to Stewing In Misdirected Resentment translation option, it becomes: "so I'm not allowed to say anything I guess."

Now, this could be a failure in the translation program.

Or it could reflect a deeper shortcoming of the Stewing In Misdirected Resentment dialect, which appears to lack much of the grammatical syntax needed for clear, linear reasoning.

Either way, until this language barrier can be overcome somehow, discussion of this topic (and many others) seems bound to result in endless sidetracks and outright derailments, making true dialog difficult if not impossible.

120. The problem I have with discussing "white privilege"

is that it doesn't provide any solutions. I'm pretty sure that most people here realize that white people generally have it easier than people of color, but what are we going to do about it besides throw insults at each other?

122. Actually I can agree with this.

Besides, I doubt the problem is any one in this site to begin with.

It is only when, like I mentioned earlier, someone like Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan talk about their work and then try to get rid of the securities and protections that they or their grandparents used to get ahead, that I have a problem.

Thing is though, at some point, someone has to back down.

I know that many can agree that there is some inherent advantages due to race, and that some really should step off, because they can't really do anything about it. People are born that way.

On the other hand, going off creating posts mentioning "poor me", I'm white and this is what is expected of me or I am blamed for this, just doesn't help things either. It sets people off, it basically proves to people that they don't know what they are talking about.

Then, comparing themselves to Asians, never considering that Asians have higher job expectations for them to receive comparative treatment. Sometimes though, when in a hole, please stop digging.

Let it go, talk about solutions.
Solutions such as affirmative action which have been hit hard by the Supreme Court.
Solutions such as actually improving public education, and figure out ways to reduce absenteeism.

124. Try this.

...

Examples of what people ACTUALLY mean when they say ďCheck Your Privilege.Ē

You are inserting yourself into a conversation where you shouldnít be. Acknowledge what you are doing, apologize and stop it.
You are making my pain about you. Acknowledge what you are doing, apologize and stop it.
You are belittling my pain. Acknowledge what you are doing, apologize and stop it.
You are making my fears concerns and troubles less important than your annoyance about me talking about my experience. Acknowledge what you are doing, apologize and stop it.

Now What?

If you believe that PoC want you to apologize for having white privilege, you are wrong. To be honest, I donít get why you would think that in the first place. Letís pretend for a second that I DO want you to apologize for having white privilege. Then, letís pretend that you actually do apologize to me. How does that help me in ANY way? You see, some of you believe that we want to take away what you have or we want you to be ashamed of what you have. This is not the case. We want to be treated like human beings and we want you to understand that you donít get to assert yourself or your feelings ABOUT OUR FEELINGS onto us or into our conversations.

129. I know you seldom respond to me, but as a matter of point...

...allow me to point out that if one were to follow this 'article' (which doesn't speak for a group naturally, even though it refers to a group), one could simply ignore all matters pertaining to people of color -- including the existence of privilege itself -- and fulfill the request.

Is that where we're at now? Ignore everyone who isn't like you so you don't somehow 'make it about you'? It seems to me that that is how we got this problem started in the first place. That isn't a solution.

139. I think that is the approach of those denying privilege

because what they are refusing to pay even a little attention to DUers of color. Not only that, they feel they should tell them what words they are allowed to use. I care a hell of a lot more what they have to say about racism than some folks who are freaked out that the subject is even discussed and effectively insist race doesn't matter by continually reference class. You have to put up with some people who disagree with you. How awful for you. Think about the racism people of color face everyday, and then they come here and learn that people who claim to be liberals don't give a shit.

164. I care about what everyone has to say about racism.

When I want to know what its like to -experience- it, I go to people who experience it. When I want to know whether something is useful or not in conversation, I go to those who experience it. People are free to 'disagree' all they want, that's fine. When it's not fine is when they begin to attribute thoughts, feelings, or beliefs to me that I don't espouse because that's the only way to make the disagreement fit the narrative.

If no one cared, people would simply do what I posted was possible; they'd ignore it entirely. And, according to the linked article, it would be a 'victory' for racism. Since that's not what I see happening, then either that definition posted is completely useless, or people care more than what you're attributing to them -- which is wholly in line with the expected attitude of a liberal site.

141. I don't pretend to know the solution for white privilege

However as a "white dude" I think I have some insight into what other "white dudes" are likely to listen to and what they are likely to just dismiss out of hand.

It really depends on whether you actually want to get "white dudes" to understand or if you rather are all about making poor "white dudes" in particular feel like bigger losers than they already do. "You played life on the ~easy~ setting and still lost, you really are a clueless dweeb".

The latter seems to be the aim of some around here, they never attack money, power or the wealthy (the vast majority of whom are white in this country) but rather go after the poor white schmuck who doesn't have two nickels to rub together.

The enemy of all of us who are struggling is not poor or even middle class whites, it's the damn ultra-wealthy and this whole "white privilege" discussion seems designed to avoid that fact.

159. Sure if its not diminishing the experience of those who live the negative effects

162. So in your opinion I have to declare someone priviledged based on the pigmantation of their skin.

I feel like a racist already just thinking that I need to judge someone because they were not born the right color. I actually feel sick to my stomach as I look out my window and think that 9 out of the 10 people I see are lesser than me because they are not the right color. I feel empathy for our country because we have never moved to all men are equal only men are judged by the color of their skin. I can see how this works though as a Jew, Hitler blamed Jews for being successful he threw them up as privileged, he used them as examples on why Germans did not enjoy the same benefits as the Jews. Funny thing he never mentioned wealth, where are you at when it comes to the 99% vs the 1% are you closer to the 1% where you can throw racial bombs and not have to worry about consequence as you sit in your McMansion. I have you on my radar, I don't forget those who try to separate based on race.

163. No, I think one who denies white privilege

has some real issues. I also think that someone who denies white privilege and then insists on telling minorities how they should speak about it and what words they can use, have some real issues. And I think that those who do all the prior, and then proclaim a cure, deserve to be called on it.

165. Then we have lost and the 1% has won.

You side with the 1% and you fight a war that is already over, instead of pulling your brother up you cast doubts upon him based on the color of his skin. There is a new war, it's one where sides are not based upon color but income. If you want to keep fighting your poverty stricken brother all while putting a dagger to his throat because you could not afford that AR-15 so be it. Me, my self I will actually fight against those who make it so we can't afford those AR-15's and are destined to stab our own in the back with rusty shanks we made out of our imagination.

166. I'm not siding with the 1%.

Hey, you want to focus on only your white brethren by denying any additional obstacle race plays into, go for it. I however will continue to speak out and for those who have it even worse by recognizing their obstacles and hurdles. I don't have any clue how you think that supports the 1%. You got it all ass backwards.

169. Join the club then. What the hell is it you think I'm doing?

Only one side gets to throw these stones, the other has to sit idly by and get pummeled.

Get a grip. It's obvious your type of view is some what common in progressive circles, shame that is. But you better expect some push back.

Go toss your dividing the democratic party on someone who might buy it. I could say it is those who believe as you who are doing the dividing.

Difference of opinion doesn't mean I'm not going to vote democratic, even though some of the things spouted here on the democratic message board make me want to hurl. Also, difference of opinion does mean I won't make some judgments on the person who is spouting them. You are free to do the same.

197. You think siding with people of color is siding with the 1%?

Telling people of color and women to not fight for thier own rights and only fight against the 1% is saying, "We shouldn't talk about racism and sexism until there are no poor white men." And we know the history and know that no matter how things go economically in the US, people of color and women will always be left behind. (And IMO I'll say people of color more than women because I'll always ride my white husband's coattails.)

212. One hell of a leap of logic there, gollygee......nt

167. I always thought it was in bad taste

for a member of the culture that oppressed another culture to claim they knew more about how to heal the scars than the members of the oppressed culture.

I see second generation fellow white people act like they know better what's going on between the races here than African Americans whose family has been here since the slave trade. I mean, shut up already. You don't know what's going on!

I would never suggest African American measures to heal their wounds were wrong. It's in bad taste and it is just a continuation of the racism.

188. I like when anyone thinks they know what's best for someone else

which is a broad brush. Like anyone outside of a any demographic would know what's best for that demographic.

White people have a multi-millenial history of know what's best for non-whites and that includes many white liberals today who are oblivious of their own white privilege that enables them to live a hippie lifestyle. There's a reason that liberals are very diverse but most hippies are white.

Men like to "mansplain" to women. Women do similar things to men, often in a more emotional guilt-trip manipulative way rather than logical. I'm sure it feels right to the ones who do it. I bet their intentions are honorable, as with most normal human beings.

Older folks always know that younger folks are so stupid and lazy they need someone else telling them to work harder and wise up, in a world that has completely transformed in many important ways from where we were just a few years ago let alone decades.

Younger folks have similar thoughts about how older folks are to blame for most problems and should have done things better.

Everyone always knows better. No one bothers to take the log out of their own eye before pointing out the dust in someone else's. Every time I point a finger at you, there's 3 pointing back at me. A fist is more effective. Its so easy to tell someone else to "suck it up", "bootstraps!", "be grateful", etc.

i'm guilty too. I'm looking for someone to blame for my impending job loss which will happen any day now. I'm a small minority, so maybe I'll blame white privilege. I'll be willfully oblivious to the fact that a big reason I got my job in the first place is because my white female boss was clearly stacking her group with diversity in order to build her coalition of support to propel her upwards, and it worked. My education/income privilege will help cushion my impending fall.