"Mom, our family won't be eating food from your house. You see nothing wrong with using milk that is out of date, moldy cheese, old cold cuts, etc. However, eating them is not safe, so our family will not be doing it. If we want to have meals together, we need to go out or meet at a park when the weather is nice and I will bring the food/we can go get it together."

If worse comes to worst and the time comes when you really can no longer avoid the discussion altogether, I do like Kudeebee's wording here. Not accusatory, just gently, quietly and calmly factual.

Knitterly, it sounds like you:-Dont want to eat food she prepared-Dont' want to tell her you don't want to eat food she prepared-Don't want her to realize that you never eat food that she prepares-But you want to plan get togethers that involve meals or at least lunch

I don't think you can have it both ways. If you absolutely don't want to be upfront and you don't want her to ever realize that you never accept invitations to eat at her home, then you can't plan activities that involve meal times.

I agree with this, but her mother tries to arranges these plans at times.

It's not a simple case of not liking the food. The food her mother has is nasty and dangerous.

Actually in post 18 Knitterly says that: I call and say "Hey mom, I'm going to be in your area, let's go out for lunch." I have arranged it, I have the car so I can escape if I need to, etc.

That implies tha Knitterly also tries to arrange things around meals. I just think she needs to discount ever having meals with her mom.

I understand it is a safety issue and not just not liking the food. Not sure what was in most post to imply that I didn't but sorry if it was confusing.

Knitterly, it sounds like you:-Dont want to eat food she prepared-Dont' want to tell her you don't want to eat food she prepared-Don't want her to realize that you never eat food that she prepares-But you want to plan get togethers that involve meals or at least lunch

I don't think you can have it both ways. If you absolutely don't want to be upfront and you don't want her to ever realize that you never accept invitations to eat at her home, then you can't plan activities that involve meal times.

I agree with this, but her mother tries to arranges these plans at times.

It's not a simple case of not liking the food. The food her mother has is nasty and dangerous.

Actually in post 18 Knitterly says that: I call and say "Hey mom, I'm going to be in your area, let's go out for lunch." I have arranged it, I have the car so I can escape if I need to, etc.

That implies tha Knitterly also tries to arrange things around meals. I just think she needs to discount ever having meals with her mom.

I understand it is a safety issue and not just not liking the food. Not sure what was in most post to imply that I didn't but sorry if it was confusing.

Knitterly's mom is a toxic mother. I don't see how Knitterly can hope to forever forestall such conversations.

If you can frame something in such a way to avoid an argument and avoid causing offense, wouldn't you want to do that?Yes, it's a safety thing. Yes, LK's safety comes first. But that also doesn't give me license to just stomp all over the situation like a bull in a china shop without any consideration at all for feelings. It is possible to address the situation and still be nice and polite about it. I was really looking to find that balance.

Knitterly, in this situation your mother's feelings do not matter. The way she handles food is wrong, and potentially dangerous to yourself and your loved ones. Any offense she feels is not valid, it's all twisted as "right" in her head, and you will be doing yourself and her a favor by not playing into it.

In this situation is is perfectly okay for you to be a bull in a china shop.

Being nice in this situation is not important.

My dad is the same way with eating old food. I am not. If he finds something in the trash that he thinks should be eaten (that I have previously thrown away) I tell him to go a head and eat it but I am not touching it.

And seriously, if you don't start standing up to your mother now what are you going to do when your daughter is older. When your mother decides to offer her own food directly, or ask your daughter, with out consulting you, directly in front your daughter, if she wants to be watched by grandma or sleep over?

This strikes me as a bit unfair. Knitterly isn't suggesting she's going to eat the food to be nice, or allow her daughter to eat it. She's trying to figure out if there is a way to deal with this situation without causing undue drama. Now, in this situation, it well may be that there is no way to really address this without there being some drama. However, I don't think the choices are "bull in a china shop" or "doormat".

Knitterly, a good way to survive these situations is to become the positive steamroller. Instead of framing questions and waiting for approval say "I want to take you out for lunch. No, no, I insist! Nothing is too much expense for my beloved mother. I will not have you go to the trouble of making lunch." Insist four times and most people do believe you really mean it.

This strikes me as a bit unfair. Knitterly isn't suggesting she's going to eat the food to be nice, or allow her daughter to eat it. She's trying to figure out if there is a way to deal with this situation without causing undue drama. Now, in this situation, it well may be that there is no way to really address this without there being some drama. However, I don't think the choices are "bull in a china shop" or "doormat".

My father sounds a lot like Knitterly's mother, and playing "game", trying to stay five steps a head of a personality like that, never helps. There will always be something to blow up about. My father rarely does it with me because he knows that I won't take it. My mother on the other hand, who plays games with my father, gets blown up ay any from once to four times a month.

And seriously, if you don't start standing up to your mother now what are you going to do when your daughter is older. When your mother decides to offer her own food directly, or ask your daughter, with out consulting you, directly in front your daughter, if she wants to be watched by grandma or sleep over?

I agree. You can't tiptoe around this forever. Even if you avoid meal times at your moms house, your mother might offer you or LK food or snack from her house when you visit.

I realize it is easy for people to tell you to not worry about politeness because they don't have to deal with the fallout. I do think no matter how gently you approach the issue, the point is you don't want to eat at her house and she is likely to be offended. It has to be so frustrating to deal with a person who behaves so unreasonably. I also think the day will come where something has to be said about the situation. I would still phrase things as gently as possible and avoid words that sound accusatory like 'nasty' or 'disgusting'. "Mom, we love spending time with you, but we can eat food from your house. Many items in your home are well past their expiration date and I don't want to take even the slightest risk that LK or I will become ill from spoiled food. I'll be happy to pack a picnic lunch for the two of us or treat you to lunch." I imagine that she will argue that she eats it all the time and is fine and at that point you will just have to tell her it is not possible and not JADE.

I think it is fine for Knitterly to continue as she has so far - clearly it has worked since her mother hasn't blown up yet, nor has she tied Knitterly & Co. down and force fed them moldy food. If and when her mother makes a direct inquiry into what is going on, Knitterly can explain then. No need to precipitate a confrontation just because she knows it will eventually happen.

^^^ I agree with NyaChan on this. So far it's working. Maybe Mom will eventually figure out for herself what's really going on. But unless she specifically asks, at this point I don't see the advantage of bringing the subject up.

If necessary to do so in the future, I still like Kudeebee's wording. It's quite gentle but gets the point across clearly and doesn't 'criticize' the mother. It's just a statement that even though the mother has every right to eat whatever she wants, 'We don't eat those kinds of things (moldy, outdated stuff) so I'd rather provide the food for all of us when we all eat together'.

I think it's a good idea not to try to provoke Mom into an argument, by trying to be kind. However, this sounds like a situation you can't "plan" your way out of. Your mom insists on controlling the agenda. So even if you plan ahead, she's going to come up with a new plan that involves doing what she wants. No matter how you frame it, she will change the plan until she controls it. She's a constantly moving target, so you have to be an unmoveable object.

Planning ahead is still a good idea. But by not addressing the key issue, your discomfort with the cleanliness/safety of the food, your just going to end up exhausting yourself as you deal with this issue over and over again. You can pose the statement about her food as gently as you can. So when your mom tries to change the plan to her providing the food, you can say, "Mom, I appreciate the offer, but I can't be sure of how old those ingredients are. So we're going to the park and for pizza as planned. If you would like to join us, you're welcome."

Your mom is probably going to be offended. But your mom is frequently offended. You're LK's mother. You make the decisions. If your mom wants continued outings with her granddaughter, she will learn to adjust.

First of all, it sounds like a tough situation, so congrats for sticking to your boundaries for the long haul. You said yourself they appear to be making progress without too much drama. So that's great. Hopefully that will continue, but at some point, it may not. You may eventually get to a place where you can't out-dance your mother on the food issue and if you stand your ground things may get tough--but that doesn't mean you're wrong, or being rude. Even if you don't leave your daughter in her care there may be times as DD gets older when she will be alone with her grandma for a few minutes, old enough to eat regular food but not old enough to know she should refuse whatever Grandma offers. Or, DD herself may say something intemperate, as children do, that will start the confrontation. I think it's good to consider and prepare for that.

For the time being, if you want to avoid saying something like, "Your food is unsafe," could you phrase it as a "tastes change" comment? Like, "I know I grew up with this, but as I've gotten older/had a baby/cooked for myself, I've discovered that I prefer other things." Or spin it as, you're trying to eat healthier things that you know she won't have in the house, like veggies and light mayo and whole grain bread.

Also, I don't think there's anything wrong with eating/feeding your child a full meal before meeting your mom for lunch (in this situation), even if you were the one who suggested lunch. You don't have to tell her you already ate, just pick at the food a bit and say you aren't hungry, for some strange reason, so while your mom eats, you'll tell her about your day. Always sounding cheerful and positive. (I know it's generally rude to eat before you meet someone for a meal, so I was thinking of ways to negate that. 1--Don't tell them you've eaten; 2--Be entertaining so your lack of eating isn't awkward for everyone else; 3--Don't let the food they've prepared go to waste--tell them you're just not feeling hungry before they plate your meal, offer to wrap up the sandwich for them to have later, etc.)

I also agree that if at all possible, direct the get-togethers away from food. Meet "after lunch" with a firm plan to leave "before dinner," including a mid-afternoon snack from someplace else so dinnertime can reasonably be pushed back until after you leave. If you're trying to avoid eating her food while also avoiding saying that, avoiding meet-ups at mealtimes is the best way to start. Think of it like situations where two people are friends and want to do stuff, but Annie knows Betty doesn't have a lot of spending money--the usual advice is for Annie to 1) suggest activities that don't cost any money; and 2) offer to pay Betty's way when Annie really wants to do something that costs money. But Annie can't always do option 2--she may not be able to afford it, Betty may feel patronized/offended, etc..

If she tries to say "Well. I guess MY food isn't good enough for you." I'd also ignore the snideness and attempt to pull you into an argument and reiterate the safety factor.

My fsther was fond of driving junky, unsafe cars (although he had plenty of money to buy something better). He'd pull that "Well, I guess MY car isn't fancy enough" line. I would say "Well, if that's the way you want to look at it." Then ignore, ignore, ignore.