Many of these older boats are used as club racers , so many are in excellent condition.

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So... a racer... not much to do with cruisers and even less with passagemaking.
I was taking about 10 tonnes of displacement by the way The point in passagemaking is to cover long distances with a certain comfortnes. This includes many things more than just cold wind and spray. To achieve this something else is needed also aboard in addition to provisions. There's an obvious reason why so many boats stay in marinas

So... a racer... not much to do with cruisers and even less with passagemaking.I was taking about 10 tonnes of displacement by the way The point in passagemaking is to cover long distances with a certain comfortnes. This includes many things more than just cold wind and spray. To achieve this something else is needed also aboard in addition to provisions. There's an obvious reason why so many boats stay in marinas

My point was not that "buy a sailboat and dump the rig" was the best way to go, but simply as an existence proof that:

1) Fuel efficiency of well over 5 nmpg, even as high as 10 nmpg, is VERY easy to obtain if one uses a sailboat hull form, displacement speeds, and modest diesel power. One still gets adequate accommodation and structure while still being much more seaworthy that most anything in "Voyaging Under Power" by Beebe.

2) Very, very few dollars could be expended to achieve this, IF one wanted to live with the inconveniences present in all sailboats, AND one was not embarrassed to power around in a sailboat without a mast.

Tad, I am sure that 400 gallons of fuel in tanks (2400 lbs) is substantially less structural load that lead hanging below. If the boat can support a keel and rig lads, it can handle fuel tanks. Might be a pain to fit them in, but one can get rid of the keel and put some there, no more need for sails, ... Does not seem a difficult issue.

Why are we talking about a "poor man's passagemaker" anyway? Its to explore ideas to do things on the cheap. This is not one of the "perfect passagemaker" threads. Its different, we are brainstorming different ways of doing things. Instead of "perfect" being the goal, "cheap" is the goal.

In my mind, getting rid of the rigging saves a LOT of money over any reasonable period of time. So keeping it a sailboat blows too many of the constraints on cost, safety, and area of operations.

Remember that Colin Archer lifeboats and sailboats had very similar ballasted displacement full keel hull forms.

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That's what I thought when this was originally posted. There is a guy in the St. Louis area that wrote an article about what he called "terminal trawler" about various small sailboats with rigging stripped that could be powered and used for cruising. O'Days, MacGreggors and Hunters were just some suggested. They have suitable livable or campable interiors for thier length compared to any power cuddy or trawler of similar size. And yes, one could not be embarrassed to be seen in one, but they fit the bill with a fuel sipping 25hp outboard. No, I would not go into the North Atlantic in one. But then, many of the minimalist passagemakers at 32+ feet mentioned here won't be cruising thousands of miles of rivers and canals of North America either.

And, around 99 or 00, (I think it was) Mercury was introducing a 50hp Big Foot outboard. They put it on a 16 or 18 foot aluminum deep V baot, decked over part of it and covered the rest in canvas and took off on a circumnavigation....anyone know what happend to those two guys? They didn't die at sea, they had the press following them.

And, around 99 or 00, (I think it was) Mercury was introducing a 50hp Big Foot outboard. They put it on a 16 or 18 foot aluminum deep V baot, decked over part of it and covered the rest in canvas and took off on a circumnavigation....anyone know what happend to those two guys? They didn't die at sea, they had the press following them.

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The next (idiotic) statement about the possibilities to survive at sea.

What, please, does this have to do with a capable motorcraft, able to circumnavigate in at least some basic comfort?

People ventured at sea in and on anything. They failed more often than not, did you notice that?

We can point towards another 100 examples, how completely insane people survived a trip. Does that make their tasks, or their voyages appreciable?

One of these http://sailboatdata.com/VIEWRECORD.ASP?CLASS_ID=4041
anchored next to us last night....it occurred to me that one could go an awful long ways in such a boat and be pretty comfortable......three cabins, two heads (which is silly), plus a roomy cockpit that can be easily closed in with weather curtains, nice little 50HP Perkins, and there's a few available at $60-70k asking....hard to beat........

Happy building !!! - - Where's the thread..??
PS - with a Gollywobbler..?

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Thanks.. got a few pictures and sketches in the gallery but no thread so far.. maybe later.. Anyway it's a longrange motorsailor, thus the gollywobbler (nobody seen one in a ketch yet ) and CPP in the avatar..

I’m not really in the market for such boat at the moment. I’m sailor, not really power boat guy, but I’m interested in boats in general, like many different kinds.

I sailed before mostly on modern yachts, but last years, I got slowly involved in the traditional Dutch sailing ships scene end there will be my primary focus for forciable future. I can get there all sailing that I want end more.

I also have a full time job in totally different field that pays the bills, so less time for sailing then I would want. This year, I finished first year of maritime school, (http://www.ezs.nl/html/diploma_kleine_zeilvaart.html) and got certificate for the skipper of sailing ships of maximum length of 40 meters in coastal navigation. Before I’m allowed to actually become a captain I need first to accumulate a lot of experience as a deckhand on that kind of ships.

I followed Richard’s passagmakers threads with interest, and understood potential.

Inspired by that and one very long thread in which I took part couple of years ago, (http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/bo...oats-versus-motorboats-11479-6.html#post87621), I thought that it might be interesting to explore what can be done for much smaller budgets. Not really poor, that’s impossible, with such boat, but for a kind of price that might be achievable for the middle class. Not sure how much, it depends from many factors, say, somewhere around 300 000 – 400 000 Euro, new built, aiming for less.

I always liked older lifeboats, (Neeltje Jacoba kind of type, you know them). (She is for sale by the way) - http://www.devalk.nl/index.asp?language=en&page=detail_yacht&reference_no=64368), and tought that their modified general form and hull shapes could be good basis for the (economical) passagmaker. Passagmaker would have one engine and normal, streamlined hull, not 2 engines and tunnel hull as Neeltje, a bit ligther built overall. Doesn’t have to be double ender, could have a transom stern.

High time to draw some sketches. I will, one of these days, don’t have much free time.

This design does not have full headroom, but has everything else going for it as far as comfort is concerned. It is seaworthy, fast, simple to build, inexpensive to rig, and can use an auxiliary engine of minimal horsepower. This vessel can be built in aluminum or steel. The 37-footer (shown here) sleeps two, and has a 9’3” beam and a 3’6” draft. She is double-ended, and carries the simple three-sail schooner rig. As long as simplicity is acceptable, this type of hull has much to offer.-

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AboutNeeltje Jacoba, I know the story ofMabeland 'de Dominee' ('the Reverend'). Quite an interesting story for a boat to be in the middle of constitutional crisis with the monarchy at stake and one prince thrown out of the line of throne succession. I guess most non boaters in Holland only know Neeltje for this story. But she is more than that..!! But I once read that parts of her ‘‘kieptanks’’ (how is that called in English?) were removed to gain interior space after she became a yacht. So she lost her self righting capabilities. I guessDorus Rijkers' hart would cry if he knew about this. Dorus died a year before Neeltje was launched but he has seenInsulinde..!!

Good luck with becoming a captain on the large Dutch traditional sailing charter ships..!!

Cheers,
Angel

PS - just saw the info about the removal of Neeltje's kieptanks is also on Wikipedia, I added the links...

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