my question was about how things are done in the lounge. my case in point was the ad or pushing for a trolligator, my point was that i took a lot of shit for questioning debbie, and taking a stand when i believe in it. i don't see anythig wrong with asking when has pepper ever done anything to change things around here. to stand for something instead, as i have said, of just going along. i was being very specific. i didn't ask the question as a general one. it's not about, "did you post?" she's an old school bustie, so that's not something that i question. i think, vixen, you missed the context: her post to me, if you read it, was chiding me, in large part, for taking on debbie. if she says that she stands up for things when she feels it, i simply wanted to know, "like what?"

i think that is a perfectly valid question.

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"what a swell farewell party! we said goodbye to everything, including the lining in my stomach." - garvey, from the film, born bad

"That's one career all females have in common, whether we like it or not: being a woman. Sooner or later, we've got to work at it, no matter how many other careers we've had or wanted." --margo channing, all about eve

while we are on the topic, pepper, what have you stood for? still not "hissy fitting," just asking, other than yesterday, i can't recall a single thing. i'm not trying to belabor a fight or any such thing, but since you say you do when you feel it, refresh my memory.... because i'm curious. i've taken a lot of shit for the things that i've done, what have you?

This question only makes sense if you're viewing Bust as an arena, which it maybe has felt like sometimes, not ...well what it is, since everyone has a different reason why this place is important to them. I hope no one at bust ever feels the need to defend themselves on this point or feel beholden. Why should participating here or this very conversation become a power struggle? Quite frankly anybody here who's advice, wit, outpouring, skills, empathy, graciousness or just plain silly has helped me through a lonely day has done a great deal by my lights, truly. That includes a lot of people, that includes Pepper and it includes YOU!

I'm sorry I made you feel that way, erinjane. In describing how I felt, I did exactly what I was condemning and for that I am sorry (I think that was what pepper directed at me too). I don't know, I think I was just trying to get across that people are incredibly sensitive just now and maybe people should take that into account (as should I). I'm not trying to silence anyone, I just want people to consider the addressee before posting; I don't mean don't express your opinion but when you're saying the same thing as twenty posters before you? is there any real need? BUSTies are some of the warmest, most caring and supportive of people but we can also be cruel, unintentionally most of the time but still cruel, and I'm just saying that sometimes we should reign the cruelty in (and now for the backlash...)

gt, I hope you don't leave because you are an integral part of the lounge, however popular/heartfelt/fiery/flawed/funny/opinionated/film theoretical you may be. However, as you said to me: put yourself first and love yourself more than you do the lounge.

I agree. Actually, to be honest, another reason I don't post in those threads often is usually someone else has already said what I was going to 5 times over (hence my little pop to say I agreed with pepper). I still like it here, and I hope you don't leave GT. I think we are leaning towards being cruel and defensive lately, probably to do with the troll issues that have been going on recently. You're definitely right about the sensitivity part. Oh the internetz.

thank you bunny, that's awful sweet of you. i'm thinking i'm just going to avoid threads with any sort of meta discussion of the lounge, you know any place where we talk about the lounge and not the topic, or where the lounge is the topic. if i start having the same problem, then i'll just excuse myself, but i'm hoping that ignoring all of that will keep me from getting stuck on stupid again.

and thank you so much for quoting my words back to me. *snickers* you are the sweetmost eva! and so wise! ((((((bun bun ))))

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"what a swell farewell party! we said goodbye to everything, including the lining in my stomach." - garvey, from the film, born bad

"That's one career all females have in common, whether we like it or not: being a woman. Sooner or later, we've got to work at it, no matter how many other careers we've had or wanted." --margo channing, all about eve

I think bunnyb made a good point that she feels like others are trying to invalidate her feelings. But I feel like I can't even post in those threads because bunnyb's post made MY feelings feel invalid.

I'm sorry I made you feel that way, erinjane. In describing how I felt, I did exactly what I was condemning and for that I am sorry (I think that was what pepper directed at me too). I don't know, I think I was just trying to get across that people are incredibly sensitive just now and maybe people should take that into account (as should I). I'm not trying to silence anyone, I just want people to consider the addressee before posting; I don't mean don't express your opinion but when you're saying the same thing as twenty posters before you? is there any real need? BUSTies are some of the warmest, most caring and supportive of people but we can also be cruel, unintentionally most of the time but still cruel, and I'm just saying that sometimes we should reign the cruelty in (and now for the backlash...)

gt, I hope you don't leave because you are an integral part of the lounge, however popular/heartfelt/fiery/flawed/funny/opinionated/film theoretical you may be. However, as you said to me: put yourself first and love yourself more than you do the lounge.

honestly, i had no issue with you, ej, i took your post as just that. you posted you agreed. pepper, however, quite clearly eluded to me without saying my name. so, i said something. this is what i always do. it's fucked up. often i can't help myself.

really, i understand feeling attacked, but to me it was always more important to participate, even when i feel attacked. having a say in matters is more important, but i realize i've been alienating busties, some of whom i adore--ggg being one of them. i know there are busties who, long ago, have hurt me severely, there was someone who attacked me in a way that cut me to my heart, and several busties who attacked me, after i had bit my tongue, after i got several transphobic slur filled pms from them. they kept defending that person and piling on me and i carry that hurt around with me. i think that is why i've done what i've done, but i also realize that i've caused just as much hurt. i can see what i've done, and some of it i'm ashamed of, but pushing for a trolligator, or talking about the ad? not an ounce of shame. i'm proud of it.

i think, however, there are many people who are unnerved when when someone makes waves be they for good or ill. what's more i have been indiscriminate. i haven't just fought for things that i think have been worth it. i fight about everything. even i know it's stupid. i've got this line from shakespere going in my head, right now, and it suits my behavior round here to a tee:"[paraphrased] [you are] as soon moved to be moody as moody moved. no--, if there were two of you, there would be none shortly for one would kill the other. you would quibble with a man for having a hair more or a hair less in his beard that you have, you would quibble with a man for cracking nuts, having no other "raisin" than because you have hazel eyes." i've argued about arguing. for no good raisin.

it's been kind of funny to me when people i think the world of, like mouse, say something to me, but before they do, they couch their posts, and then brace themselves for my tongue lashing, when there was none forthcoming. obviously my behavior is "broken" even now, when i am trying to come across as calm, reasoned, i am took to be flying off the handle. when i am nice, i am taken as angry. i can't say this isn't a castle of my own making. i knew i was in the wrong, but when i felt attacked all of that old, deep, hurt comes back. i realize now, i really can't help myself. i can't. it seems in this affair i have zero self control. i love the lounge, but in a lot of ways there is a lot of pain here for me, and i take way too much of it personally, so i'm going to take me out of the equation. i think not only will the lounge be better for it, hopefully i will too.

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"what a swell farewell party! we said goodbye to everything, including the lining in my stomach." - garvey, from the film, born bad

"That's one career all females have in common, whether we like it or not: being a woman. Sooner or later, we've got to work at it, no matter how many other careers we've had or wanted." --margo channing, all about eve

so if i reply then it's just another hissy fit? i can't even defend myself from some of the things you assert in this post, that aren't true?

no 'hissy fit,' here, pepper, i'd like to make a case for my actions. if you think i'm wrong, feel free to reply.

you're right. completely right. i badgered debbie to create a trolligator, after years of putting up with steve. guilty as charged, i pushed for it, because i felt it was something that was needed. steve had been doing his thing around here for years.

but don't get it twisted: i didn't want the job. i said it in my posts. i said it in my pms to debbie and L[sup]3[sup]. i said it repeatedly. i thought i'd be awful at it. i'm too hot blooded. do me a favor, pepper, go back and look. read my posts. i'll do more for you than you did me-- i'll give you the benefit of the doubt-- i don't think you meant to meant to make me look shady, it's just easy to remember it that way. i thought it should be up for a vote-- and we all know i am certainly not the most popular bustie around here. so i can see how you might, wrongly, think that my motives were selfish. i'll just take that as an honest mistake. after all, if there was a poll, my bet is that i would be only slightly above steve. my flaws are obvious and numerous. hell, i don't think you had to strain to write that post about me. any number of busties could rattle off that list without batting an eye. but let's make this clear: i didn't jockey for the job. not at all.

what's more pepper, i'll challenge you: if you, or any bustie can find a post where i did jockey for it, post it, and i'll not only admit that i was wrong, but i'll put it in my sig as a way of my eating humble pie.

in spite of all of that, debbie made me the trolligator, and my thinking was, that since i made the stink, i should put my money where my mouth was, so i did it. i took it too personally, i got my feelings broke over and over, and still busted my ass for this site. because i thought it was worth it.

but when you say this:

i'm really going to have to shake my head, smile and give you the benefit of the doubt here again: first, a little refresher course, because i think there is some revisionism here. before the trolligator we were waiting 3 days, sometimes a week for the lounge lady (except for lysa), to even bother to delete even one of steve's posts. steve spend every 4 day weekend posting 24/7. steve would post on average post atleast 100 time or more on these weekends. the job was done by an intern who often didn't do the job.

having spent more than two weeks checking the site for hours on end, waking up early and going to bed late, i do i think that their job was easier that the job i "did for 15 minutes." adressing the sarcasm in that line is tempting, but, i'll refrain.

as i've said before, i think it is worth making a stink about somethings. i thought it was worth it to make a stink to get a trolligator, and like it or not, it got the job done.

i also think that it's worth making a stink about the ad in the corner. debbie has been at best an absentee parent to the lounge, but the first active thing she does is create more ad space? i'm sorry but that stinks.

i think ggg, and the rest of you, are right about this much: i have been acting like a troll of late. i've been training my fire on busties, and i've been taking it all way too personally. so i won't post in the community thread, i won't post anything about the mechanics of how the lounge is run, or comment on it. i will stick strictly to posting about the topics. i won't even post about trolls or in threads about trolls. i won't post to debbie, or even steve, when he changes his name and comes back and the trolligator job is given back to an intern. after this little conversation is done in this thread, after pepper's posted all the times i've said i would be the best trolligator and i was shouting "pick me!" you can have it, it's all yours.

[/color]

My issue GT, wasn't that you were getting angry and making angry posts about it. I didn't see a problem with that. It's when others reply back with their OPINION of the situation and you get angry at those posts or folks ask questions in the community forum and people tell them to cool off and wait a while. But we don't work at the lounge and many of us are checking in once a day from work so how do we know that when something happens it 'just happened' and we should take the time to 'cool off' before we ask a question about it?

That's the main reason I just lurk in these kinds of discussions because I feel the same way you do...attacked. If you post something like this, and I reply, you feel attacked, but then if you reply back to me, I feel attacked. That's where the problem comes into it for me. It seems like lately everyone gets so defensive when someone posts their opinion and take on a particular situation, instead of just posting differing opinions and discussing it. I think bunnyb made a good point that she feels like others are trying to invalidate her feelings. But I feel like I can't even post in those threads because bunnyb's post made MY feelings feel invalid.

that's your right to pitch a hissy fit if you like and to insult and insinuate about the people who don't jump on your band wagon. i personally think you're making a mountain out of a mole hill because you like being the center of attention. so here's a little fuel for your fire, i am sure that you'll milk it for all that it's worth.-pepper

so if i reply then it's just another hissy fit? i can't even defend myself from some of the things you assert in this post, that aren't true?

no 'hissy fit,' here, pepper, i'd like to make a case for my actions. if you think i'm wrong, feel free to reply.

QUOTE

first you badger the hell out of the PTB to make you a mod and then you ditch the whole thing in a huge fit saying that "we" don't understand how tough the job was blah blah blah and Then you turn it around and do the very thing you freaked out about all over the PTB.

first things first:don't get it twisted: i didn't want the job. i said it in my posts. i said it in my pms to debbie and L3. i said it repeatedly. i thought i'd be awful at it. i'm too hot blooded. do me a favor, pepper, go back and look. read my posts. i'll do more for you than you did me-- i'll give you the benefit of the doubt-- i don't think you meant to meant to make me look shady, it's just easy to remember it that way. i thought it should be up for a vote-- and we all know i am certainly not the most popular bustie around here. so i can see how you might, wrongly, think that my motives were selfish. i'll just take that as an honest mistake. after all, if there was a poll, my bet is that i would be only slightly above steve. my flaws are obvious and numerous. hell, i don't think you had to strain to write that post about me. any number of busties could rattle off that list without batting an eye. but let's make this clear: i didn't jockey for the job. not at all.

what's more pepper, if you can find a post where i did jockey for it, post it, and i'll not only admit that i was wrong, but i'll put it in my sig as a way of my eating humble pie.

in spite of all of the fact that everybody knew i'd be a horrible trolligator, debbie gave me the job, and my thinking was, that since i made the stink, i should put my money where my mouth was, put up or shut up. so i did it. i took it too personally, i got my feelings broke over and over, and had, what even i will admit, were a dozen 'hissy fits' and still busted my ass for this site. because i thought it was worth it. i'll not apologize for that.

while we are on the topic, pepper, what have you stood for? still not "hissy fitting," just asking, other than yesterday, i can't recall a single thing. i'm not trying to belabor a fight or any such thing, but since you say you do when you feel it, refresh my memory.... because i'm curious. i've taken a lot of shit for the things that i've done, what have you?

but back to the topic at hand: you're right about the first part, you're absolutely right: i badgered debbie to create a trolligator, after years of putting up with steve. guilty as charged, i pushed for it, because i felt it was something that was needed. steve had been doing his thing around here for years, when we had tried everything under the sun to get rid of him, and she was unwilling otherwise. we pleaded, polled and posted, all to no avail. debbie paid us no nevermind, so i pushed. guilty as charged. i pushed cos nobody else was going to and it needed to be done.

but when you say this:

QUOTE

do you actually think that their job is any easier than what you were doing for 15 minutes?

i'm really going to have to shake my head, smile and give you the benefit of the doubt here again: first, a little refresher course, because i think there is some revisionism here. before the trolligator we were waiting 3 days, sometimes a week for the lounge lady (except for lysa), to even bother to delete even one of steve's posts. steve spend every 4 day weekend posting 24/7. steve would post on average post atleast 100 time or more on these weekends. the job was done by an intern who often didn't do the job.

having spent more than two weeks checking the site for hours on end, waking up early and going to bed late, i do i think that their job was easier that the job i "did for 15 minutes." adressing the sarcasm in that line is tempting, but, i'll refrain.

as i've said before, i think it is worth making a stink about somethings. i thought it was worth it to make a stink to get a trolligator, and like it or not, it got the job done.

i also think that it's worth making a stink about the ad in the corner. debbie has been at best an absentee parent to the lounge, but the first active thing she does is create more ad space? i'm sorry but that stinks.

i think ggg, and the rest of you, are right about this much: i have been acting like a troll of late. i've been training my fire on busties, and i've been taking it all way too personally. so, to be on the safe side, i won't post in the community thread, i won't post anything about the mechanics of how the lounge is run, or comment on it. i won't start new threads etc. i will stick strictly to posting about the topics. i won't even post about trolls or in threads about trolls. i won't post to debbie, or even steve,nope, after this little "hissy fitless"conversation is done in this thread, after pepper's posted all the times i've said i would be the best trolligator and i was shouting "pick me!" i'm done.

it's all yours.

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"what a swell farewell party! we said goodbye to everything, including the lining in my stomach." - garvey, from the film, born bad

"That's one career all females have in common, whether we like it or not: being a woman. Sooner or later, we've got to work at it, no matter how many other careers we've had or wanted." --margo channing, all about eve

Alrighty. GT, I think you are great, but you need to chill out on Moderating, questions about moderating, etc etc.

You're taking things way too personally (especially for the internet) and you are acting like a jerk. You have no right to condescend to BUSTIES asking a question about moderation, you even stated you are not a moderator anymore, so just RELAX.

Seriously, you bring this energy in that people are attacking you, when they aren't, then you fly on the defensive and it makes this place, frankly a place I don't want to be and I ask myself why I come back.

Take a few seconds to back away from the keyboard and just chill.

One thing you need to learn about the internet is that you don't "lose anything" by shrugging off a poster who annoys you, or says something stupid or ignorant, by just ignoring them. By engaging in all of these e-battles with trolls and now with BUSTIES who are just curious about board goings on, you are really giving away more of your power than teaching them anything.

Think about. You won't self destruct and the BUST board will still go on, if you just shrug off the Steves and Ronias of the internet. Believe me, I used to over engage trolls and get caught up in e-drama, and it is just a waste of time. You're better than that, and I care about you.

dood. i can't believe that you interrupted that thread where a bustie is going thru some serious shit to make it ALL ABOUT YOU.

you have got some nerve, funk. look. you fucked up in a lot of ways in the lounge, but if you really want to be a part of this community you need to suck it up, listen to what we said about you and change what you do. but this sort of horseshit is not likely to make you friends. but i'm with polly, stay if you want to try to learn, leave if you can't suck it up. i don't care which.

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"what a swell farewell party! we said goodbye to everything, including the lining in my stomach." - garvey, from the film, born bad

"That's one career all females have in common, whether we like it or not: being a woman. Sooner or later, we've got to work at it, no matter how many other careers we've had or wanted." --margo channing, all about eve

First of all, don't single me out as the one saying not-so-nice things about you. You've been disliked all over this board, something you've brought upon yourself.

Despite our repeated hints (eventually not-so-subtle ones) to back off a little, integrate yourself into our existing conversations, you chose to continue to shove your way in and tell us needy wimmin how it should be.

Stay or leave, I don't care, but don't expect us to feel bad for you when you've continually disrepected our space, feelings and requests.

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You went to school where you were taught to fear and to obey, be cheerful, fit in, or someone might think you're weird.Life can be perfect. People can be trusted. Someday, I will fall in love; a nice quiet home of my very own.Free from all the pain. Happy and having fun all the time.It never happened, did it?