All these reasons come down to "Because Lucas just made it up as he went along" and then when he made the prequels just came up with any old plot to shoehorn characters in even though the original trilogy didn't even hint that they were connected.

It sucks to be a Jedi.. people think the Jedi have all the answers, they can't be wrong, they can't have a bad day... I just wanted to go fishing.. but NOOOOO! I gotta train this stupid kid and have no idea how because I didn't have a mother!

He wasn't just incompetent, he was also a huge dick. When your supposed best friend forever who turned evil is laying on the ground after a duel, missing all his arms and legs, and is ON FIRE in incredible pain, the right thing to do is to put him out of his misery with a quick swipe of your lightsaber. Just walking away and leaving him there in agony is a bit of an asshole move.

Flint Ironstag:All these reasons come down to "Because Lucas just made it up as he went along" and then when he made the prequels just came up with any old plot to shoehorn characters in even though the original trilogy didn't even hint that they were connected.

Just about everything Alec Guinness' Obi-Wan said ended up being contradicted by a later movie.

5) He killed the JediAt the Emperor's bidding, Darth Vader was almost singlehandedly responsible for the destruction of the entire Jedi Order, thus allowing Palpatine to take control of the galaxy with virtually no opposition. Oh well, what can you do, right? It's not like there was a moment when Darth Vader was completely at the mercy of a Jedi.

EXCEPT THERE TOTALLY WAS. At the end of Revenge of the Sith, Obi-Wan cuts off Anakin's limbs. Sure, he could have ended Anakin's misery and saved the Jedi a galaxy of hurt by decapitating him but instead, Kenobi just walks away. Turns out Karma's a Sith.

Bondith:Flint Ironstag: All these reasons come down to "Because Lucas just made it up as he went along" and then when he made the prequels just came up with any old plot to shoehorn characters in even though the original trilogy didn't even hint that they were connected.

Just about everything Alec Guinness' Obi-Wan said ended up being contradicted by a later movie.

If you think for a second, that last one might not actually be wrong. Maybe blasters are similar to revolutionary war muskets, where a unit of soldiers all being able to hit the broadside of a sandcrawler WOULD be considered 'precise'.

Maybe the half dozen rebels who are the only ones to reliably kill people with them sprung for the fancy models with sights and rifled barrels.

5) He killed the JediAt the Emperor's bidding, Darth Vader was almost singlehandedly responsible for the destruction of the entire Jedi Order, thus allowing Palpatine to take control of the galaxy with virtually no opposition. Oh well, what can you do, right? It's not like there was a moment when Darth Vader was completely at the mercy of a Jedi.

EXCEPT THERE TOTALLY WAS. At the end of Revenge of the Sith, Obi-Wan cuts off Anakin's limbs. Sure, he could have ended Anakin's misery and saved the Jedi a galaxy of hurt by decapitating him but instead, Kenobi just walks away. Turns out Karma's a Sith.

Um, hadn't the Emperor already given the order to execute Order 66?

Right, but then afterwards Darth Vader led everyone else in wiping out the rest of the Jedi who escaped.

Flint Ironstag:All these reasons come down to "Because Lucas just made it up as he went along" and then when he made the prequels just came up with any old plot to shoehorn characters in even though the original trilogy didn't even hint that they were connected.

FTFA: It's 100% on Obi-Wan that the Death Star was ever built in the first place. During Attack of the Clones, Kenobi has a chance to defeat the guy with the Death Star plans, Count Dooku, who is undoubtedly strong in the Force but even more undoubtedly OLD AS F#@&.In the single most embarrassing moment of Obi-Wan's career, he loses to a man who is approximately 438 years old. The only thing more shocking than Obi-Wan's failure is the fact that Dooku's weapon isn't four lightsabers at the end of a Zimmer frame.

What I can't figure out about that fight scene with Dooku is this: Saruman pinches off that giant metal column so that it will land on the unconscious Obi-Wan & Skywalker. So the obvious thing for Yoda to do is... put his lightsaber away and force-push the humungous mass of metal, rather than easily pull or push the 300 pounds or so (tops) of sleeping human flesh out of the way then bounce onto Dookus back and give him a nice lightsaber tracheotomy? Dafuq? The guy can think fast enough on his feet to bounce around like a farking superball wielding a sword fer fraks sake, but he can't think fast enough to pull some people out of the way? He'd rather move a Greyhound bus than a feather? GAAAAH!

somemoron:What I can't figure out about that fight scene with Dooku is this: Saruman pinches off that giant metal column so that it will land on the unconscious Obi-Wan & Skywalker. So the obvious thing for Yoda to do is... put his lightsaber away and force-push the humungous mass of metal, rather than easily pull or push the 300 pounds or so (tops) of sleeping human flesh out of the way then bounce onto Dookus back and give him a nice lightsaber tracheotomy? Dafuq? The guy can think fast enough on his feet to bounce around like a farking superball wielding a sword fer fraks sake, but he can't think fast enough to pull some people out of the way? He'd rather move a Greyhound bus than a feather? GAAAAH!

I thought the exact same thing at the time.

Plus the prequels were just so CGI laden. I swear if the script called for Obi-Wan to drink a cup of coffee Lucas would have chosen to do it with CGI and a green screen.

Mad_Radhu:He wasn't just incompetent, he was also a huge dick. When your supposed best friend forever who turned evil is laying on the ground after a duel, missing all his arms and legs, and is ON FIRE in incredible pain, the right thing to do is to put him out of his misery with a quick swipe of your lightsaber. Just walking away and leaving him there in agony is a bit of an asshole move.

He kinda has to walk away or the first three movies evaporate into an alternate universe. Never mind that it's totally out of character, we have a plot hole, pile of shiat, and a shovel..."ACTION!"...

Flint Ironstag:somemoron: What I can't figure out about that fight scene with Dooku is this: Saruman pinches off that giant metal column so that it will land on the unconscious Obi-Wan & Skywalker. So the obvious thing for Yoda to do is... put his lightsaber away and force-push the humungous mass of metal, rather than easily pull or push the 300 pounds or so (tops) of sleeping human flesh out of the way then bounce onto Dookus back and give him a nice lightsaber tracheotomy? Dafuq? The guy can think fast enough on his feet to bounce around like a farking superball wielding a sword fer fraks sake, but he can't think fast enough to pull some people out of the way? He'd rather move a Greyhound bus than a feather? GAAAAH!

I thought the exact same thing at the time.

Plus the prequels were just so CGI laden. I swear if the script called for Obi-Wan to drink a cup of coffee Lucas would have chosen to do it with CGI and a green screen.

That's so when coffee drinking is no longer socially acceptable he can replace the coffee mug with a walkie-talkie.

1) The answer is the same for every "would Superhero A beat Superhero B?" hypothetical: the winner is whoever the writer wants to win. How else could Batman ever possibly beat Superman? Or how could the Punisher possibly kill any X-Man? For story reasons, Maul HAD to kill Qui-Gon.

2) Lazy writing. "Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you? Hmm? Hmm. And well you should not. For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is."-Mutherfarkin' Yoda. Replace "size" with "age". Book it. Dooku.

3) One of the few compelling themes in the Prequels was the idea that regardless of the machinations of Palpatine, the Republic was dying. The Galactic Senate was ineffective, had weak leadership and rife corruption, and even the Jedi council had felt its connection to the Force diminished, and their ability to use it to guide their decisions clouded. Obi was barely a Jedi himself when he became Anakin's master, and was a poor choice to be named Master of such a powerful, willful padawan as Anakin proved to be. But this is like blaming Eddard Stark for trusting Littlefinger and Varys. It was an error that served the narrative.

4) Again, the dark side of the Force seeks to obscure, and in the final days of the Republic, even the Jedi council was unable to use it to properly guide their decisions, as stated.

5) Obi left Vader mostly without limbs, and within feet of a river of flowing lava. I'm no Volcanist, but I think it would be reasonable to assume such injuries, and that proximity to molten lava would be highly fatal. Yeah, a mercy beheading would have been a kindness, but this is a guy who had just force-choked his beloved, knowing she was preggers. Fark him, and let him suffer an agonizingly slow death.

6) The Death Star was a battle station, not an exploratory craft like Star Trek's Enterprise. As such, its highly unlikely it was manned by anything other than evil Imperial Troops, evil Imperial pilots, and very evil Imperial janitors, whose cadre of trash compactor monsters were both feared and hated. DEATH TO THEM ALL!

7) OK, this is actually a legit beef. "Let's post one of our last living Jedi Knights within a landspeeder's drive of the progeny of the primary reason why he's one of our last living Jedi Knights, but let's have the kid be raised by ignorant moisture farmers!" Really? As adept as Vader was at hunting down force-sensates, it would have far more sensible for Obi to simple raise Luke from infancy, and prepare/train him for his inevitable show-down. And this still could have served the needs of the writers.

8) I guess this is kind of legit, but if Luke had known all along that Leia was his sister, it could have been more easily detected by Vader, which was the whole point of keeping the twins apart in the first place. If anything, Obi should have thanked Luke for informing him about Leia's call for help, and that he'd handle it alone. Of course, there goes Ep 4's plot right down the shiatter...

9) My impression is that Force ghosts are only apparent to Jedi, or at the bare minimum Force-sensates with at least some marginal training. That's why only Luke could see the gang at the end of Ep 6. And why Obi-ghost would be unable to call upon Han, Leia, the Rebel's Tauntaun herder, etc.

10) Flawed premise. Obi (not to mention Yoda) withholding this info from Luke had nothing to do with Luke being able to sense good/paternal love from Vader. Furthermore, the knowledge that Vader was Luke's father (and that Obi farked him up big time) would only make him more receptive to the idea that Vader was redeemable, something Obi had good reason to believe was not possible.

somemoron:What I can't figure out about that fight scene with Dooku is this: Saruman pinches off that giant metal column so that it will land on the unconscious Obi-Wan & Skywalker. So the obvious thing for Yoda to do is... put his lightsaber away and force-push the humungous mass of metal, rather than easily pull or push the 300 pounds or so (tops) of sleeping human flesh out of the way then bounce onto Dookus back and give him a nice lightsaber tracheotomy? Dafuq? The guy can think fast enough on his feet to bounce around like a farking superball wielding a sword fer fraks sake, but he can't think fast enough to pull some people out of the way? He'd rather move a Greyhound bus than a feather? GAAAAH!

My chief complaint (besides the simple fact that the prequels suck) was the battle between Anakin and Obi-Wan on Mustafar. Specifically, the part where they're each standing on top of these hovering droids over a river of magma. Why the hell didn't Obi-Wan reach out with his Awesome Force Powers of Awesome and tip Anakin's damned droid over?

Think about it: Obi-wan has always carried himself as honorable and noble and yada-yada-yada, but he's certainly not above an underhanded trick or two when it serves his purpose. So, pushing Anakin's droid over is not outside the realm of Obi-wan dickishness.

Anakin, surprised and unprepared by this unconventional attack, flails for a few seconds trying to Force Jump to the neaby banks of the River Crispy, but eventually falls ungloriously into the Red-Hot Magma of fark You.

Obi-wan wipes his hands, goes and gets Padme, and they run off to a nearby BBQ joint to commemorate their fallen friend and husband in the only way possible. Problem solved!

Nope, Obi-wan turns out to not have any Obi-balls. Instead, he gives up this golden opportunity and instead chooses the much-less effective slice, dice, and broil tactic, cries about how much he loved Anakin while watching Anakin become a bonfire, and then casually takes Anakin's lightsaber, thinking, "gosh, this might come in handy 20 years from now after Stumpy over there kills a couple billion innocent sentient beings." The only reason he didn't rub his Obi-balls on Anakin's carbonized forehead was because he didn't have any.

And let's not even start on Padme. Wuss. Seriously. Wuss. She led the military of her home planet to victory over a superior invading force at age 13! Afterwhich she becomes a senator (and was apparently effective enough in that job to get targetted for assassination,) deals with Jar-Jar Binks, (a creature so irredeemably stupid that any other person would quickly and enthusiastically encourage the genocide of his entire species,) handles Anakin's adolescent tantrums with a much greater amount of tolerance than is required, and behaves in an overall bad-ass fashion. Until, of course, she give birth. Then, it "fark you, kiddies, I'm outta here!" Yeah, good job there, sister.

Oldiron_79:sprgrss: Considering that the prequels never existed, this list is flawed.

But they do exist, unfortunately.

Blasphemer! The prequels do not exist, have never existed, and will never exist. Those that believe otherwise have obviously been contaminated by the dark side into accepting a reality that is completely without merit. Those susceptible to this evil include the pathetic mentally damaged beings that claim that there was once a Star Wars holiday program. This is all pure propaganda put forth by the Sith themselves in an attempt drive a wedge between rational thinkers and empire stooges.

2) Death Star is giant magical flying fortress the size of a mountain. Non-Fighter-starships are airships of various stripes. Fighters are a mix of standard fantasy flying mounts - gryphons, wyverns, drakes.

3) Droids are golems, but not as ubiqutous. C3PO is an Elf. R2D2 is likely a Gnome.

4) Blasters are early early gunpowder weapons, crossbows, and bows - but most combat is melee, Western European straight sword, not fencing.

5) The Jedi were DnD-style Paladins who went for mobility and fencing, not heavy armor. Lightsabers are mythril foils, strong and sharp

6) Anakin rose through the ranks of the military during the civil wars (Clone Wars). He caught the attention of General Kenobi, who tutored him in Jedi ways (illegally), then brought him into the order before the war was over.

7) Princess Leia is the niece of the Prince of Alderaan, daughter of the Prince's sister who died in childbirth.This would have been just after the civil war in the Republic (Clone Wars). Anakin took his son with him to the capitol city.

8) Luke lived with Anakin until he was 3, shortly before hte final showdown between Palpatine and the Jedi. Luke was sent away with Obi-Won, along with Anakin's sword, to be somewhere safe until the trouble were over. This was a ploy to get both Obi-Wan and Luke out of the city.

9) Politics divided Anakin and Obi-Wan originally. It became more after Anakin met with Obi-Wan to get Luke back. Obi-wan attacked Anakin and left him for dead (Classic Hero/Villain mistake. Gotta have it.) After this is when the newly crowned Emperor made his new order of knights, who would be titled Darth.

Most of these reasons are pretty damn weak. I regarded Obi-Wan as overall a pretty competent Jedi. His only major mistake in the film was not finishing off Anakin after cutting off his legs. I understand why he was so distraught, but had he just stabbed Anakin through the heart he would have denied the Emperor his most powerful agent.

2) Death Star is giant magical flying fortress the size of a mountain. Non-Fighter-starships are airships of various stripes. Fighters are a mix of standard fantasy flying mounts - gryphons, wyverns, drakes.

3) Droids are golems, but not as ubiqutous. C3PO is an Elf. R2D2 is likely a Gnome.

4) Blasters are early early gunpowder weapons, crossbows, and bows - but most combat is melee, Western European straight sword, not fencing.

5) The Jedi were DnD-style Paladins who went for mobility and fencing, not heavy armor. Lightsabers are mythril foils, strong and sharp

6) Anakin rose through the ranks of the military during the civil wars (Clone Wars). He caught the attention of General Kenobi, who tutored him in Jedi ways (illegally), then brought him into the order before the war was over.

7) Princess Leia is the niece of the Prince of Alderaan, daughter of the Prince's sister who died in childbirth.This would have been just after the civil war in the Republic (Clone Wars). Anakin took his son with him to the capitol city.

8) Luke lived with Anakin until he was 3, shortly before hte final showdown between Palpatine and the Jedi. Luke was sent away with Obi-Won, along with Anakin's sword, to be somewhere safe until the trouble were over. This was a ploy to get both Obi-Wan and Luke out of the city.

9) Politics divided Anakin and Obi-Wan originally. It became more after Anakin met with Obi-Wan to get Luke back. Obi-wan attacked Anakin and left him for dead (Classic Hero/Villain mistake. Gotta have it.) After this is when the newly crowned Emperor made his new order of knights, who would be titled Darth.

Wow I spent too long on this.

I like this. Change the names just enough not to get sued, make it a RPG (D20 system), get it on Kickstarter ASAP.

Philbb:Oldiron_79: sprgrss: Considering that the prequels never existed, this list is flawed.

But they do exist, unfortunately.

Blasphemer! The prequels do not exist, have never existed, and will never exist. Those that believe otherwise have obviously been contaminated by the dark side into accepting a reality that is completely without merit. Those susceptible to this evil include the pathetic mentally damaged beings that claim that there was once a Star Wars holiday program. This is all pure propaganda put forth by the Sith themselves in an attempt drive a wedge between rational thinkers and empire stooges.

I did not say they was good or I liked them but I'm not gonna bury my head in the sand and pretend they didn't exist. Jar Jar may have been the greatest crime against humanity since the holocaust, but I'm not gonna pretend like it never happened just because its bad.