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Garrus and Liara came into their own and Mordin stole the show. The gameplay was smoother to the point where ME1 looked clunky in comparison.

I agree from this but prefer the tone and fiction in the first even if the characters are less compelling. I wish the whole series had kept the 60s/70s sci-fi homage thing rather than the generic space action man it became in 2 and 3.

These guys didn't just quit yesterday. They each gave 6 months notice (SOP when you're a company director..hell some places make you give a year). Not sure what the timeline is on when events occur exactly in relation to ME3 debacle (in a dash atm) but it's worth bearing in mind.

Honestly I'm not really sure why everyone has/had such a massive hard-on for Bioware in the first place. How many games did they make that were actually great games?

I never played Baldur's gate, but I feel like the majority of people on message boards who jizz in their pants about that game haven't played it before either (see Kid Icarus, Psychonauts, and Beyond Good and Evil as other examples of games that people pretend they have played to sound cool).

So what else was there? DA:O and ME? Bioware already had this apparently great reputation before those games, so where did it come from? KOTOR? KOTOR, like most of Bioware's game was clunky and buggy as hell.

All of the Bioware games I've ever played have seemed very unpolished compared to other games with similar budgets.

I'm not being hateful or spiteful, I just really don't understand where their reputation as a premier game/RPG developer came from in the first place.

It also puts it right after the launch of their biggest/most anticipated game to date. It's much more likely that they saw the conclusion of their biggest franchise as a good time for themselves to step down and allow a new person(s) to take the helm.

I highly doubt some people being upset about the ending would be why they would resign from Bioware.

Honestly I'm not really sure why everyone has/had such a massive hard-on for Bioware in the first place. How many games did they make that were actually great games?

Personally, it mostly comes from Baldur's Gate. They had other good stuff before Dragon Age or Mass Effect but Baldur's Gate was a big deal at the time. Yes, their games were broken at times and the D&D system wasn't particularly good for the style of games created but it was computer D&D (yes, I know it's not like pen & paper) with a huge world to explore.

I suspect they also gain goodwill from the whole series of Infinity Engine games, even the ones they had nothing to do with.

I'm not sure I can think of many similar games that were actually polished and worked all the way through at the time. They all gained significant fan patches that fixed numerous bugs, they all had pretty unusable UIs by today's standards and they all made combat far more fiddly than it should be.

Honestly I'm not really sure why everyone has/had such a massive hard-on for Bioware in the first place. How many games did they make that were actually great games?

I never played Baldur's gate, but I feel like the majority of people on message boards who jizz in their pants about that game haven't played it before either (see Kid Icarus, Psychonauts, and Beyond Good and Evil as other examples of games that people pretend they have played to sound cool).

So what else was there? DA:O and ME? Bioware already had this apparently great reputation before those games, so where did it come from? KOTOR? KOTOR, like most of Bioware's game was clunky and buggy as hell.

All of the Bioware games I've ever played have seemed very unpolished compared to other games with similar budgets.

I'm not being hateful or spiteful, I just really don't understand where their reputation as a premier game/RPG developer came from in the first place.

Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate 2 really were very influential games and on top of that are also really good.

I like Bioware because I played their games when I was young, so their name has a special meaning and memories of fondness. I'm smart enough to know that the games were buggy and unpolished but I loved them warts and all (the same goes for Obsidians games). I do know that the Bioware then and now are like most things very different and while I've enjoyed most of DA:O, choice elements of DA2 (though I had to force myself to finish it) and almost all of the ME series I still think I prefer old Bioware. TOR was of no interest to me and this action of slapping Biowares name on everything (see the new C&C coming out) won't make me rush out and by it.

I'd love for them to get back to their roots but I think that time is long passed.

I never played Baldur's gate, but I feel like the majority of people on message boards who jizz in their pants about that game haven't played it before either (see Kid Icarus, Psychonauts, and Beyond Good and Evil as other examples of games that people pretend they have played to sound cool).

Nah, Baldur's Gate sold like hotcakes at the time, relative to the market. If you were into PC games back then, you likely played it. Psychonauts and BGE are different in that they were critical darlings that really didn't sell.

KOTOR and Jade Empire also did well at the time; they're clunky in retrospect, but they were early real-time 3D RPGs. NWN was the only real clunker, and even that was redeemed somewhat by the expansions.

I think it comes down to BG 1 and 2 being excellent, and every other Bioware game facing the expectations of living up to it. And every time, they don't quite get there but the game is good enough that people hope that the next one will be 'the one'.

Nah, Baldur's Gate sold like hotcakes at the time, relative to the market. If you were into PC games back then, you likely played it. Psychonauts and BGE are different in that they were critical darlings that really didn't sell.

I think both Psychonauts & BGE have shipped a lot of units over time (same with mirrors edge) to the extent that sequels/spiritual successors are mooted. Blade runner was a commercial failure at cinemas, but it cleaned up in terms of video & DVD sales as well as directors cut versions later on. Initial sales aren't everything.

This is the how manieth studio that EA has managed to turn into a shell of its former self? I lost count years ago.
Anyhow I'm glad, now if bioware games would stop selling in the next few years then they can finally put it down.

@ hypernetic, I think it's mostly because of KOTOR (BG is just too long ago the majority of the target audience of ME etc probably wasn't born then or still being bottle fed)
Which makes it pretty weird since bioware have been making the exact same game in a different skin with a worse and worse story since KOTOR... (kotor 2 , ME, dragon age are all the exact same formula as the original).
I had my fill after Kotor, not sure why people were willing to put up with reskinned more of the same.

I get why people may have thought DA was great (first time playing a kotor game) , or why they liked bioware (thought BG or kotor were good) but the two combined makes no sense.

offtopic: I got beyond good and evil at its original release on pc and while fairly charming it was pretty rubbish as a game. I got bored a few hours in and stopped playing in the factory where I was photographing rats as if it's some pokemon game.
Just hipster mentality and peer pressure on the interwebs that make the majority of 'fans' pretend it was good or that they even played the game.

Honestly I'm not really sure why everyone has/had such a massive hard-on for Bioware in the first place. How many games did they make that were actually great games? (see Kid Icarus, Psychonauts, and Beyond Good and Evil as other examples of games that people pretend they have played to sound cool).

Other than the BG games, I have yet to play a Bioware game that I would call great. I have found both the Mass Effect and Dragon Age series to be unexceptional (ME3 and DA2 were simply dreadful). They do have a lot of polish, they do have characters spewing snarky one liners that neckbeards like to salivate over so much but that is all there is to them. Their games feel like the CoDs of rpgs, all style no substance. The gameplay is repetitive and is dumbed down to the point that it feels like a chore to get to the decent bits, the storylines are amateurish and uninspired and the dialogue tends to be cringeworthy.

Psychonauts is awesome.

So what else was there? DA:O and ME? Bioware already had this apparently great reputation before those games, so where did it come from? KOTOR? KOTOR, like most of Bioware's game was clunky and buggy as hell.

KOTOR doesn't hold a candle to KOTOR 2.

Originally Posted by Goateh

Personally, it mostly comes from Baldur's Gate. They had other good stuff before Dragon Age or Mass Effect but Baldur's Gate was a big deal at the time.

Disclaimer: I haven't gotten around to reading their actual blog posts yet, just the RPS summary

From what it sounds like though, I don't think this is a "rage quit" as it were, and it isn't them spiting EA. It sounds like they both just want to try other things in life.

If there IS any disgruntlement, I think it would be a mixture of the ME3 fiasco ("Everything is horrible because I didn't realize the entire third game was the ending, not the last five minutes!") plus the general tone. In the era of BG and even NWN, people LIKED video games. They would say "Wow, this campaign is a piece of crap. But imagine all the fun stuff we can do with the toolset!". These days, you get "Oh my god, I hated the last minute or two, I am going to try and sue and scream how much I hate it!" or "Worst X ever"

But even that doesn't really seem to be there. I think it is just that both of them have decided to move on. If they hadn't both basically said "Yeah, no video games planned in our future" I could see it as them splintering away. But there isn't.

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This is the how manieth studio that EA has managed to turn into a shell of its former self? I lost count years ago.

Origin
Bullfrog
Westwood
Maxis
BioWare

What's missing?

Originally Posted by Finicky

@ hypernetic, I think it's mostly because of KOTOR (BG is just too long ago the majority of the target audience of ME etc probably wasn't born then or still being bottle fed)

I think that's because Knights of the Old Republic came out for consoles, where as their previous games didn't. This is why Knights of the Old Republic is so well regarded by console gamers, because it's usually the first ever western RPG they've ever played.