I really like "The Simpsons Spin-Off Showcase" and that strikes me as just as good a finale in a different way. Beyond that minor quibble, I agree with you entirely.

Taking a glance at the episode lists, there's nothing I would particularly mind losing, even ones that placed unusually high in our list project like "HOMR," which is just dreadful; or ones I personally have a soft spot for like "Lisa the Skeptic," which probably aren't as good as I remember them being.

The first half of Brawl in the Family felt like a series finale, with closure and self-awareness and a focus on the primary family dynamics of the Simpson clan. Then the second half with the garbage about Ned's wife from Vegas kicks in and you truly wish that had been the series finale. What a perfect encapsulation of how much the series sucked at this point that back half is!

Oh, and Simpsons Spin-Off Showcase and Behind the Laughter are two of the all time worst Simpson episodes, are you guys kidding me with these hot takes

I love the Smile-Time Variety Hour, to me it's a note-perfect satire of a whole genre of awful TV that now plays as super eccentric because nobody has any reason to remember the stuff it's making fun of (thank god). But my parents watched endless reruns of the Sonny & Cher Comedy Hour and such so I felt... vindicated by the segment, and I enjoy that there's essentially no break in its irony.

The difference between "Simpsons Spin-Off Showcase" and "Behind the Laughter" in my view is that the jokes in the former mostly all land, and the writing, though certainly at the end of its dominance, was still mostly strong. There's also sort of an outdated, timeless quality to lampooning spin-off TV shows (without being too specifically referential) that lampooning a specific VH1 documentary format that went by the wayside very soon thereafter did not have at all. One of the greatest fractures in the excellent formula of The Simpsons once the Scully era was off and running were how many swings and misses were taken on referencing current popular culture of that era as if it would have the staying power of something like the football-on-TV glimpses in "Lisa the Greek" and "Homer the Heretic," or the tabloid newsmagazine stuff in "Homer Bad Man." The tone of those earlier efforts is (even if accidentally in some cases!) timeless, and has a carefully curated feel to it.

Beginning with Season 9 almost immediately, choices are made that feel carelessly of-the-moment, and before long there are Kid Rock and N-SYNC guest-starring appearances and shoehorned gags about television formats that would never even have a lasting foothold, and just such a chintzy "throw everything at the wall and see what sticks" approach to this kind of thing that would go on to be done better (at least for a couple of years, even if it's not my cup of tea) in Family Guy, eliminating the need for even this lousy version The Simpsons entirely. Not to mention the fact that Futurama managed to really deftly strike a similar tone to early Simpsons, by taking care with the sorts of pop culture references it engaged with instead of trying to be some zeitgeist soup of guest stars and topical gags. It's a fine line, for sure, and I'm not sure who ultimately deserves the most credit for it, but it's absolutely one of the biggest problems with the 'zombie Simpsons' formula.

Oh, and Simpsons Spin-Off Showcase and Behind the Laughter are two of the all time worst Simpson episodes, are you guys kidding me with these hot takes

Behind the Laughter is undoubtedly one of the very best Simpsons episodes.
But given that you don't like Curse of the Cat People, Images or anything by Jesus Franco it just confirms that we have very different tastes!

The difference between "Simpsons Spin-Off Showcase" and "Behind the Laughter" in my view is that the jokes in the former mostly all land, and the writing, though certainly at the end of its dominance, was still mostly strong. There's also sort of an outdated, timeless quality to lampooning spin-off TV shows (without being too specifically referential) that lampooning a specific VH1 documentary format that went by the wayside very soon thereafter did not have at all. One of the greatest fractures in the excellent formula of The Simpsons once the Scully era was off and running were how many swings and misses were taken on referencing current popular culture of that era as if it would have the staying power of something like the football-on-TV glimpses in "Lisa the Greek" and "Homer the Heretic," or the tabloid newsmagazine stuff in "Homer Bad Man." The tone of those earlier efforts is (even if accidentally in some cases!) timeless, and has a carefully curated feel to it.

Beginning with Season 9 almost immediately, choices are made that feel carelessly of-the-moment, and before long there are Kid Rock and N-SYNC guest-starring appearances and shoehorned gags about television formats that would never even have a lasting foothold, and just such a chintzy "throw everything at the wall and see what sticks" approach to this kind of thing that would go on to be done better (at least for a couple of years, even if it's not my cup of tea) in Family Guy, eliminating the need for even this lousy version The Simpsons entirely. Not to mention the fact that Futurama managed to really deftly strike a similar tone to early Simpsons, by taking care with the sorts of pop culture references it engaged with instead of trying to be some zeitgeist soup of guest stars and topical gags. It's a fine line, for sure, and I'm not sure who ultimately deserves the most credit for it, but it's absolutely one of the biggest problems with the 'zombie Simpsons' formula.

Time has changed the Mel Gibson episode from standard celebrity ass-kissing to hilariously ironic.

True, but it remains not very well written or compelling, but when the tone of an earlier episode shifts with time, often the strong backbone of the writing and performances ensure that it will endure in its altered state.

I didn't really go off the Simpsons until Season 12, probably because in the UK we didn't see post Season 8 until we got Sky in 2002, and suddenly noticed the drop in quality. I still don't get why people hate the Skinner imposter episode so much!

The thing about the Skinner episode that amuses me is that somewhere in a previous episode he says that "Mother insists that I retroactively pay her for all the meals I ate as a child". Which of course then got revealed as having never happened!

But compared to other series which throw character continuity out of the window even harder (Brian in Family Guy's back story, etc) to suit a joke, I felt that one worked!

Its always seemed that the Simpsons staff seemed more hung up on the issue than even fans were. After all they went back to the same premise with the death and replacement of Snowball II in Season 15, as well as Fat Tony dying and getting replaced by his cousin Fit Tony, who fattens up into the standard model at the end of his Season 22 episode!

Last edited by colinr0380 on Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.

By the way, I like the Mel Gibson episode as well: the ultraviolent Mr Smith Goes To Washington remake especially but also for the moment in the chase sequence after that when Homer and Gibson burst in their getaway golf cart in a very gynaecological fashion through the "She's Having A Baby...Again!" poster, which proves that Hollywood have not hit bottom yet in sequelising that almost forgotten John Hughes film! (Though Steve Martin did his part in the following years with Father Of The Bride Part II and the two Cheaper By The Dozen films)

Last edited by colinr0380 on Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.