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Re: Many children taken by Americans not orphans

Originally Posted by NiteGuy

There's an easy equivalency here. If the same church group showed up in New Orleans after Katrina, how would they be judged for trying to pull the same crap?

Why would they do this in New Orleans? Was the U.S. economy destroyed by Katrina? Were all institutions of the Louisiana damaged by Katrina? Were there no channels to adopt children available in Louisiana after Katrina? Because all these things happened in Haiti. The economy is now non-existent. All government institutions have ceased to exist and channels for adoptions no longer exist in any signfiicant manner. No. Your comparison is a failure.

Last edited by Hatuey; 02-05-10 at 12:47 PM.

Peace is a lie. There is only Passion. Through Passion I gain Strength. Through Strength I gain Power. Through Power I gain Victory. Through Victory my chains are Broken. The Force shall free me.

Re: Many children taken by Americans not orphans

Originally Posted by Hatuey

Why would they do this in New Orleans? Was the U.S. economy destroyed by Katrina? Were all institutions of the Louisiana damaged by Katrina? Were there no channels to adopt children available in Louisiana after Katrina? Because all these things happened in Haiti. The economy is now non-existent. All government institutions have ceased to exist and channels for adoptions no longer exist in any signfiicant manner. No. Your comparison is a failure.

Funny how others managed to use the "non existing" institutions to get 100+ children out of the country legally. Funny how these "non existing" institutions not only arrested these criminals, but are now charging them. Good job for a "non existing" institutions..

Re: Many children taken by Americans not orphans

Originally Posted by liblady

it appears they broke the law.

Of a corrupt country with little infrastructure and who is now dependent on the international community for everything. If Haiti doesn't take care of it's children, I have no problem with people breaking the law to ensure more kids don't die because of government failure to act.

Peace is a lie. There is only Passion. Through Passion I gain Strength. Through Strength I gain Power. Through Power I gain Victory. Through Victory my chains are Broken. The Force shall free me.

Re: Many children taken by Americans not orphans

Originally Posted by PeteEU

Funny how others managed to use the "non existing" institutions to get 100+ children out of the country legally.

You mean these children?

A "large number" of children may have been taken out of Haiti without following proper legal steps since the country was hit by the massive earthquake January 12, resulting in the collapse of the judiciary and other government functions, the United Nations said Friday. This week, the UN Children's Fund (UNICEF) raised serious concern over the plight of hundreds of thousands of Haitian children who may become victims after chaos descended on their country with the earthquake.

Speaking off the record, UN officials said a "larger number" children have been taken out of the country, by airplane or by land through the Dominican Republic. Some of the children had legal documents showing they were authorized to leave the country to meet adopted families elsewhere, but some did not, and officials wanted to ensure international adoption protocols were followed despite the chaos in Haiti.

The sources said they could not be specific or be quoted as sources because it would hurt their current efforts to work with whatever is left in the government in Port-au-Prince and other governments.

Funny how these "non existing" institutions not only arrested these criminals, but are now charging them. Good job for a "non existing" institutions..

You keep talking **** and making up ridiculous phony charges in hopes that it'll justify your rage for Christians. Too bad nobody other than people who make the same phony comparisons you did are biting. I guess when Haiti is dependent on rich countries and these countries are trying to uphold the laws of Haiti it is kind of like Haiti having a government. Only it doesn't.

The quake destroyed key government buildings including the National Palace, hampering the work of what was already a weak and inefficient state. In the days after the quake, aid groups complained about the U.S. military control of the international airport, which became key for supplies because of a damaged seaport.

Flights have since increased, but President Rene Preval and former French Cabinet Minister Nicole S. Guedj on Saturday appealed for the creation of a U.N. humanitarian intervention force to coordinate and mobilize aid in international disasters. The force could be known as the Red Helmets, they suggested, as opposed to the blue-helmeted U.N. military peacekeepers.

The U.S. Geological Survery said Sunday it has recorded 52 aftershocks of magnitude 4.5 or greater since the Jan. 12 quake.

But please Pete in Spain who has such knowledge of Haiti without ever having met a Haitian. How much input do you think Haitian institutions really have in everyday decisions made in Haiti? Do you think it is the Haitian aid workers handing out food to people? Do you think it is the Haitian military trying to save people? Or do you think hard work (the rescue effort, upholding of laws in Haiti and keeping the country from getting worse) is actually being done by the Haitian government? Please tell us all. Considering the Haitian President got caught saying exactly what I have said on the Haitian government for a while :

Far from coming to address them, Preval is holed up in the judicial police headquarters near the airport, mumbling that he can’t do much when half the government’s offices are destroyed and he doesn’t even have a cell phone signal.

Meanwhile, the hundreds of thousands of Haitians who lost their homes and families have been left to fend for themselves, with no food handouts and no proper medical treatment. In many cases, they are seriously injured.

Foreign rescue workers are battling round the clock digging for survivors. But in the absence of a working government, the disaster relief teams who are supposed to be delivering food, latrines and medical supplies are still mostly dithering about sorting out logistics.

From the shambles outside the presidential palace, you wonder if anybody is in charge at all.

I highly doubt it. But please tell us all. What institutions in Haiti are operational to any efficient degree? Provide evidence. Instead of your usual uninformed **** talking

Last edited by Hatuey; 02-05-10 at 01:03 PM.

Peace is a lie. There is only Passion. Through Passion I gain Strength. Through Strength I gain Power. Through Power I gain Victory. Through Victory my chains are Broken. The Force shall free me.

Re: Many children taken by Americans not orphans

Originally Posted by American

Dude, you get a clue okay? What I said is true, and haven't disputed the laws of other nations....you implied that. The Haitian govt is a bunch of crooks, and these people haven't been charged of anything.

Well-supported, factual argument, as always.

"An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

Re: Many children taken by Americans not orphans

"He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
"Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS. #MAGA

And after these adoptions the Haitian government put a hold on all adoptions.. long before the 10 Americans even entered the country.

You keep talking **** and making up ridiculous phony charges in hopes that it'll justify your rage for Christians.

No I dont. Not my fault your media does not tell you everything. And as I have stated many times my view on this case has not changed one bit since it started when I had no clue that these 10 people were missionaries. And phoney charges... what phoney charges?

I guess when Haiti is dependent on rich countries and these countries are trying to uphold the laws of Haiti it is kind of like Haiti having a government. Only it doesn't.

First off, Haiti does have a government. You should have seen the PM and President on you TV several times, plus various ministers, police and other official persons. Is it working well? No, of course not, it is in a shambles but never the lest it is there and they are the government of Haiti. You cant just dismiss them. They are the ones that gave permission to the US to take over the airport, they are the ones that gave permission for much of what the aid agencies and US is doing.

Secondly I never claimed that the Haitian government infrastructure was not hit by the earthquake. What I am saying is that it is not as outright destroyed as you and others are making out.

For one, the 10 American Missionaries are being held in a police station, the schools in Haiti are opening on Monday, and so on and so on. There are still standing hospitals, and so on.

But please Pete in Spain who has such knowledge of Haiti without ever having met a Haitian. How much input do you think Haitian institutions really have in everyday decisions made in Haiti?

Considering 10 Americans are going on trial for child kidnapping, then yes. Considering it was the Haitian PM and government that put in a ban on adoptions or removing children from the country, then yes. Considering it was the Haitian government that issued orders to its border police and police in general to arrest anyone trafficking children.. then yes.

Is it perfect, hell no. But if the whole government infrastructure is destroyed how can the 10 Americans be put before a court? How can they be in a real jail? How can they have a Haitian lawyer? How can it be that Haitian law and rules are being followed and not say American, French or random international law? One would think that if the Haitian government was destroyed then someone would take over and enforce the rule of law of some nation.. but have they? No. It is still what is left of the Haitian police that is enforcing the peace as best as possible with the help of UN and international troops.

Do you think it is the Haitian aid workers handing out food to people?

Sure it is, along with aid workers from around the world. Why this insane attempt to demean the Haitian people over and over again? Do you really think that the Haitians are just sitting back and saying feed me, save me?

Do you think it is the Haitian military trying to save people?

Sure, along with normal people and the rescue workers from around the world. Do you really think that Haitians, military or not, just stood around looking after the earthquake knowing that there was people under the rubble?

Or do you think hard work (the rescue effort, upholding of laws in Haiti and keeping the country from getting worse) is actually being done by the Haitian government?

All of it? Of course not. But they are part of it, and trying to dismiss their own contribution to saving their own people stinks of colonist arrogance .. da black man can help himself.!!.

Please tell us all. Considering the Haitian President got caught saying exactly what I have said on the Haitian government for a while :

Wait, you just debunked half of your own post by that link... He is holed up in the judicial police HQ.. but but you said all of the Haitian government infrastructure was destroyed! Also this Reuters article is from 4 days after the earthquake and is in no way representing the current situation there. You look at Katrina and the state of local government in New Orleans 4 days after Katrina..

I highly doubt it. But please tell us all. What institutions in Haiti are operational to any efficient degree? Provide evidence. Instead of your usual uninformed **** talking

LOL you have provided it your self plus I have in my debunking of your idiotic accusations.