If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

For those clamoring for Eifert at #17, which of the following scenarios presents better value?

1.17 OLB Jarvis Jones
2.48 TE Zach Ertz

or

1.17 TE Tyler Eifert
2.485 OLB Jamie Collins

Personally, I see minimal difference between Eifert and Ertz, and significant difference between Jones and Collins.

I guess it would go by preference. I personally wouldn't take either Jones or Eifert @ #17. But if I had to choose between your scenarios, I would actually go with Eifert-Collins. There isn't as big as a gap as you think between Jones & Collins. Collins has heaping upside compared to Jones. Jones might be more NFL ready but neither see the field at OLB year 1 here. I think talent wise, your combined comparison is pretty close.

For those clamoring for Eifert at #17, which of the following scenarios presents better value?

1.17 OLB Jarvis Jones
2.48 TE Zach Ertz

or

1.17 TE Tyler Eifert
2.485 OLB Jamie Collins

Personally, I see minimal difference between Eifert and Ertz, and significant difference between Jones and Collins.

I think there's a huge difference between Eifert and Ertz. Eifert is a great pass catcher. Ertz is the more complete blocking TE, but doesn't have the athleticism in the passing game. We don't have to take Collins. We could grab another position after Eifert.

Jamie Collins is an ideal replacement for the exodus of James Harrison. The Steelers have shown a lot of interest in him during the pre-draft process, and he should fit perfectly in Pittsburgh's 3-4 defense.

Look for Pittsburgh to either reach a bit on Collins with their 17th overall pick or, perhaps, they trade up into the early part of the second-round where his value is even more justified. However they maneuver this, I believe he is high on their radar and will do what they can to make him a Steeler.

If Collins does end up wearing the legendary black and gold, he'll be fortunate to have an opportunity for growth in one of the best organizations in the league; an organization that does a great job incubating their young defenders a few years before turning them loose.

I guess it would go by preference. I personally wouldn't take either Jones or Eifert @ #17. But if I had to choose between your scenarios, I would actually go with Eifert-Collins. There isn't as big as a gap as you think between Jones & Collins. Collins has heaping upside compared to Jones. Jones might be more NFL ready but neither see the field at OLB year 1 here. I think talent wise, your combined comparison is pretty close.

I think there's a huge difference between Eifert and Ertz. Eifert is a great pass catcher. Ertz is the more complete blocking TE, but doesn't have the athleticism in the passing game. We don't have to take Collins. We could grab another position after Eifert.

Well, Ertz had 19 more catches for 213 more yards and 2 more TD's than Eifert this year (with a freshman QB at the helm since Luck was in Indy).

The Rams' offense featuring weapons such as Marshall Faulk, Torrey Holt, and Isaac Bruce were known as "The Greatest Show on Turf"

The Steelers' offense featuring weapons such as Le'Veon Bell and Martavis Bryant should be known as "The Greatest Show on Grass"

This has nothing at all to do with respective playing surfaces at the Edward Jones Dome vs. Heinz Field.

Except Ertz won't be there at 2.48. He will go in the first 10 picks of Round 2. Other teams know the value of the TE in today's NFL.

I guess that is me saying I'll pick your second option.

If Ertz doesn't make it down to #48, and the team want to give Ben a weapon on day two of the draft, then there will be other options available...we won't panic. DeAndre Hopkins, Keenan Allen, Robert Woods, Justin Hunter, Terrence Williams, Quinton Patton, Markus Wheaton, Aaron Dobson, Stedman Bailey, Da'Rick Rogers, Ryan Swope...we could have the chance to get guys like this on Friday night in rounds 2 or 3.

The Rams' offense featuring weapons such as Marshall Faulk, Torrey Holt, and Isaac Bruce were known as "The Greatest Show on Turf"

The Steelers' offense featuring weapons such as Le'Veon Bell and Martavis Bryant should be known as "The Greatest Show on Grass"

This has nothing at all to do with respective playing surfaces at the Edward Jones Dome vs. Heinz Field.

Well, Ertz had 19 more catches for 213 more yards and 2 more TD's than Eifert this year (with a freshman QB at the helm since Luck was in Indy).

Stats don't matter except when they matter

I'd actually prefer Ertz if this was still BA's offense. But I think Haley will utilize talent. IMHO, Ertz had the better QB and the better system to play out of. Most of his catches that I've seen hit him between the numbers. And Ertz fits the traditional block first Steeler tradition. Eifert is a completely different athlete that can go up and make a catch on a ball that looks like it's overthrown.

Ertz looks like a TE playing TE. Eifert looks like a giant WR playing TE. And they're used completely differently. You can line up Eifert wide and it's natural.

The reason I'd consider Eifert at 17 or even think teams will think of taking him earlier is because he's the best receiver in the draft by a long shot. I understand not wanting to take a TE, G, ILB very high in the draft because they're often not the most critical impact positions. But this kid's different than all the rest.

Consider if Eifert was 30 lbs lighter and just a WR with this incredible size and speed and hands. We'd be talking about him as a top 10 pick. It's a pipe dream anyway. I think he'll be gone before we pick and we probably wouldn't take him because we have 4 TEs already and probably aren't thinking we need someone as our top priority.

But one of this team's priorities is Red Zone offense. This kid would instantly fix it. When Heath is healthy, these 2 would be unstoppable.

I agree. I wouldn't want Eifert @ #17. I think you pegged his range. I would put him #25 at best.

Every projection I've seen from the "so-called" draft experts have Eifert as high as #15 and as low as #20. So what do you base your assessemnt on that #25 is just right other than personal preference?

Who is the perfect #17 pick that meets all the criteria for using that number pick?

First I want to say that this draft is weak at the Top. There are players in the 15-50 range that are graded close together. IMO...There isn't 20 1st round talents in this draft.

Saying that...I don't think there is enough seperating Eifert, Ertz, McDonald, & Escobar to shy away from any of them. However, I also don't think there is enough to over value any of them. I have mentioned something I do all the time when grading and that is putting previous guys in the current draft to evaluate. If a Colby Fleener or Rob Gronkowski was in this draft...Eifert wouldn't be considered a first rounder. Both of them were 2nd round picks. Perhaps now you could see the "value" aspect I mention. To go to the next tier, Eifert is no Jermaine Gresham. Gresham was selected 21st. You take into account the quality & depth of each draft they were in but you could get a sense of the value of a pick. Don't get me wrong, I think Eifert is a very good TE. Given the weakness off the talent in the 1st round, his actual grade projects him into the 1st.

If you are selecting outside the 12-15 range, I think you have to consider "value" based upon that next tier of players being so close together. With the weak QB class..The other prime positions or trade down (if possible) could get you the most value. The LTs, WRs, TEs, DT, 4-3 DE, & CBs could rise because of that. That's why you could see a rise of DTs like Richardson & Williams... CBs Trufant & Taylor...LT Watson...DE Carradine...WRs Hopkins, Woods, & Hunter...Possibly go higher or sneak into the 1st round. Eifert is one of those guys that fall into that. A pass cathing TE is going to rise especially in a weak 1st round. In a rich 1st round, I wouldn't want him. In this 1st round, I want more value if I have to take a 1st rounder outside my top guys. If stuck & I can't get another pick with a trade back...The BPA's value could be increased because of his position. I wouldn't want to be in the FO for this 1st round outside the top 10.