The share of Americans who leave Islam is offset by those who become Muslim.

... Christianity as a whole loses more people than it gains from religious switching (conversions in both directions) in the U.S., while the net effect on Islam in America is a wash.

Among those who have converted to Islam, a majority come from a Christian background. In fact, about half of all converts to Islam (53%) identified as Protestant before converting; another 20% were Catholic. And roughly one-in-five (19%) volunteered that they had no religion before converting to Islam, while smaller shares switched from Orthodox Christianity, Buddhism, Judaism or some other religion.

When asked to specify why they became Muslim, converts give a variety of reasons. About a quarter say they preferred the beliefs or teachings of Islam to those of their prior religion, while 21% say they read religious texts or studied Islam before making the decision to switch. Still others said they wanted to belong to a community (10%), that marriage or a relationship was the prime motivator (9%), that they were introduced to the faith by a friend, or that they were following a public leader (9%).

In recent years, the number of American Muslims has been growing steadily, by around 100,000 annually. But the fact that the shares of people who enter and leave Islam are roughly equal suggests that conversions to and from the faith are having little impact on the group’s overall growth.

The difference is this: those who leave Islam never return to it. Those who convert, certainly in the US or Europe, almost always leave it again after just a few months or a couple of years.

Also Muslims leaving Islam have, like iffo for example, very often an aversion to other established religions, so many of them become agostic or atheist, or form their own religious beliefs.

The same group, pew research also says:

Americans who do not identify with any organized religion are the fastest growing group, according to Pew Research. This phenomenon is prevalent with a younger demographic, where the individual identifies as being more “spiritual but not religious,”

manfred wrote:The difference is this: those who leave Islam never return to it. Those who convert, certainly in the US or Europe, almost always leave it again after just a few months or a couple of years.

Also Muslims leaving Islam have, like iffo for example, very often an aversion to other established religions, so many of them become agostic or atheist, or form their own religious beliefs.

The same group, pew research also says:

Americans who do not identify with any organized religion are the fastest growing group, according to Pew Research. This phenomenon is prevalent with a younger demographic, where the individual identifies as being more “spiritual but not religious,”

Well you got one thing right, your precious Qur'an is similar to "the Lord of the rings" in as much as it pure fiction, but it, compare with Tolkien's novels, of such lousy quality, that it really is only fit for the garbage.

Iffo is a good illustration about leaving Islam... he does not trust any established religion, he is his own man, and he would never return to Islam. I wrote an article here once, some time back, on levels of spirituality, which also discusses Iffo's position, who shows greater understanding than you do.

You are on level one: Follow rules, get accepted by other Muslims, pretend things you are not to make an impression. Belief is linked to fear.

Iffo is on level 4b.... having studied and rejected the dogmatic part of religion or at least realised that "teachings" are not the centre of religion, people either explore deeper meanings and meditative or mystic aspects of religion (4a) or choose to reject all established religion (4b)

All other considerations apart, SAM, the figures are revealing.The Pew paper says

In recent years, the number of American Muslims has been growing steadily, by around 100,000 annually. But the fact that the shares of people who enter and leave Islam are roughly equal suggests that conversions to and from the faith are having little impact on the group’s overall growth.

So the growth is not due to the attraction of Islam but to immigration and breeding. Indeed, the attractiveness is so low that

About a quarter of adults who were raised Muslim (23%) no longer identify as members of the faith

Nearly one in four, SAM. And of those, more leave because they dislike Islam than leave because they prefer another religion. What's more, 8% of them - that's 2% of all Muslims - don't even believe in Allah! No wonder they escaped to the USA!

‘Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religious philosophies, social customs and literary traditions. They neither intermarry nor eat together, and indeed they belong to two different civilisations which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions.’ Muhammad Ali Jinnah

manfred wrote:Well you got one thing right, your precious Qur'an is similar to "the Lord of the rings" in as much as it pure fiction, but it, compare with Tolkien's novels, of such lousy quality, that it really is only fit for the garbage.

Iffo is a good illustration about leaving Islam... he does not trust any established religion, he is his own man, and he would never return to Islam. I wrote an article here once, some time back, on levels of spirituality, which also discusses Iffo's position, who shows greater understanding than you do.

You are on level one: Follow rules, get accepted by other Muslims, pretend things you are not to make an impression. Belief is linked to fear.

Iffo is on level 4b.... having studied and rejected the dogmatic part of religion or at least realised that "teachings" are not the centre of religion, people either explore deeper meanings and meditative or mystic aspects of religion (4a) or choose to reject all established religion (4b)

When iffo dies he will be buried as a Muslim, not atheist, agnostic or others, just as with ex-Christians, who are atheists, agnostics, theorists, and so on they are also buried as Christians / Catholics.

Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."(2:120)

He, like any of us, will be buried according to his wishes. Perhaps you are unaware that in many countries you do not have to have a religious funeral any more. Also, how you are buried does not change how you have lived and what you have believed. I am not sure that any ex-Muslim would take kindly to you telling him or her what s/he is or must be.

Suppose I went to a Muslim cemetery and read a funeral mass there, for all the people buried there. So suddenly they are all Christians, even though they are dead? No? But Muslims have the power to force conversions even after death?

manfred wrote: So suddenly they are all Christians, even though they are dead? No? But Muslims have the power to force conversions even after death?

No: that power's reserved for Mormons.

‘Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religious philosophies, social customs and literary traditions. They neither intermarry nor eat together, and indeed they belong to two different civilisations which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions.’ Muhammad Ali Jinnah

manfred wrote:Well you got one thing right, your precious Qur'an is similar to "the Lord of the rings" in as much as it pure fiction, but it, compare with Tolkien's novels, of such lousy quality, that it really is only fit for the garbage.

The Bible is full of myths and contradictions. It's just a fairy tale for kids and stupid Christians like you, who believe in the story of Santa Claus and three little Christians pigs.

Iffo is a good illustration about leaving Islam... he does not trust any established religion, he is his own man, and he would never return to Islam. I wrote an article here once, some time back, on levels of spirituality, which also discusses Iffo's position, who shows greater understanding than you do.

He is a loser.

You are on level one: Follow rules, get accepted by other Muslims, pretend things you are not to make an impression. Belief is linked to fear.

Who cares about what you think?

Iffo is on level 4b.... having studied and rejected the dogmatic part of religion or at least realised that "teachings" are not the centre of religion, people either explore deeper meanings and meditative or mystic aspects of religion (4a) or choose to reject all established religion (4b)

And you're the lowest one under my soles.

Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."(2:120)

Not a very good basis for copying to start a new religion then, is it?

‘Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religious philosophies, social customs and literary traditions. They neither intermarry nor eat together, and indeed they belong to two different civilisations which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions.’ Muhammad Ali Jinnah

Personally, I don't think Islam will outlast this century... However, I need to remind you again that this is a forum about Islam, and not Christianity. You have been indulged for quite long enough. If you insist posting spam, I will dump it. And if that gets too much trouble, I send you on yet another break.

I don't care even so many christians change their religionWhat I know, in Islamic countryThere are 2 group of muslimWho are called moderate (liberal) and one who are followed the QuranOne who called themself always following the Quran always do the bad things to other religions

SAM wrote:The share of Americans who leave Islam is offset by those who become Muslim.

... Christianity as a whole loses more people than it gains from religious switching (conversions in both directions) in the U.S., while the net effect on Islam in America is a wash.

Among those who have converted to Islam, a majority come from a Christian background. In fact, about half of all converts to Islam (53%) identified as Protestant before converting; another 20% were Catholic. And roughly one-in-five (19%) volunteered that they had no religion before converting to Islam, while smaller shares switched from Orthodox Christianity, Buddhism, Judaism or some other religion.

When asked to specify why they became Muslim, converts give a variety of reasons. About a quarter say they preferred the beliefs or teachings of Islam to those of their prior religion, while 21% say they read religious texts or studied Islam before making the decision to switch. Still others said they wanted to belong to a community (10%), that marriage or a relationship was the prime motivator (9%), that they were introduced to the faith by a friend, or that they were following a public leader (9%).

In recent years, the number of American Muslims has been growing steadily, by around 100,000 annually. But the fact that the shares of people who enter and leave Islam are roughly equal suggests that conversions to and from the faith are having little impact on the group’s overall growth.

pelihat wrote:There are 2 group of muslimWho are called moderate (liberal) and one who are followed the Quran

that's because you dont know how liberal the Quran could be :

QS. 96Have you seen the one who forbids (9) A servant when he prays? (10) Have you seen if he is upon guidance (11) Or enjoins righteousness? (12) Have you seen if he denies and turns away - (13) Does he not know that Allah sees?

QS. 4:75. And what is [the matter] with you that you fight not in the cause of Allah and [for] the oppressed among men, women, and children who say, "Our Lord, take us out of this city of oppressive people and appoint for us from Yourself a protector and appoint for us from Yourself a helper?"

QS. 9:13. Would you not fight a people who broke their oaths and determined to expel the Messenger, and they had begun [the attack upon] you the first time?

see? the command of the Quran is the command based on the logic reason, so basically without the logic reason there's no command, & with the kind of verses :

QS. 28:77. do good as Allah has done good to you

QS. 5:32. whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely

QS. 5:34. Except for those who return [repenting] before you apprehend them. And know that Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

if you see the verse like this :

QS. 5:38. [As for] the thief, the male and the female, amputate their hands in recompense for what they committed as a deterrent [punishment] from Allah. And Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise.

QS. 24:2. The [unmarried] woman or [unmarried] man found guilty of sexual intercourse - lash each one of them with a hundred lashes, and do not be taken by pity for them in the religion of Allah, if you should believe in Allah and the Last Day.

you can interpret those mentioned punishments as the less punishment as long its can stops those crime.

Did Mohammed show Muslims how to be "liberal " when he made holy war on "disbelievers?"

Sahih Muslim: Book 019, Number 4294: It has been reported from Sulaiman b. Buraid through his father that when the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) appointed anyone as leader of an army or detachment he would especially exhort him to fear Allah and to be good to the Muslims who were with him. He would say:Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah.

Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war,

do not embezzle the spoils; do not break your pledge; and do not mutilate (the dead) bodies; do not kill the children. When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them. Then invite them to migrate from their lands to the land of Muhairs and inform them that, if they do so, they shall have all the privileges and obligations of the Muhajirs. If they refuse to migrate, tell them that they will have the status of Bedouin Muilims and will be subjected to the Commands of Allah like other Muslims, but they will not get any share from the spoils of war or Fai' except when they actually fight with the Muslims (against the disbelievers). [/b]If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands.[b] If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them.