Frederick:Theres such a thing as too much help? Wouldnt it make more sense to arrive and stand by out of the way? Or is the thought process that people dont know what "out of the way" is?

Chemical plants are very farking dangerous places to be during normal operation anyway. One that has just exploded where the situation inside is likely still changing is even more so. The last thing they need is a bunch of people standing around with their hands in their pants that don't have a clue what to do or where to go...one of the main reasons for evacuations is just to get people away from dangerous shiat so they don't wait until the last second and then clog the roads. 500 ambulances and fire trucks blocks the road just as much as 500 cars and trucks.

These things have very well planned out emergency procedures, including amount of responders. These plans take into account potential risk to the responders, traffic flow, material, staffing, evacuation routes, etc.

This is in part because of an accident in the 1970s. A chemical plant farked up and absolutely everyone that could hold a damn shovel showed up. Well, it blew up again, and now instead of a few injured workers, they had to treat over a hundred people for chemical burns, lung damage, etc. The REAL responders set up a perimeter at a safe distance. These people rushed to the front gates. Of course when it was over they started demanding other people pay for their misfortune...

Uakronkid:HotWingAgenda: I'm starting to get a little nervous about being in one of the few parts of the country that has not had a major catastrophic event in the last 6 months. It's like being the last cow in line at the slaughterhouse and seeing all the other cows go down in front of you.

I live in Ohio. Nothing happens here. No major weather events, no earthquakes, no industrial disasters, not interesting enough for terrorists. We're boring enough that fate might just forget about us and skip us by.

Imma gonna come stay with you all for a while. 2 miles from the coast (tidal wave), 30 miles from an active volcano, and ears deep in one of the most shaky earthquake zones in the country.

CraicBaby:crotchgrabber: As an emergency dispatcher, I tend to be quiet and just lurk. Subby is right. If you don't know what you're doing and you are not in the command chain, then stay the fark out of the way.

We have had some in depth reminders this week about various shiat

I find it slightly disconcerting that an emergency dispatcher has the Fark handle "crotchgrabber".

To make matters even worse, a cold front is barreling down on North Texas as I type this, and temps will be plummeting into the low 40s in West, with rain, wind, and generally shiatty weather for the next few days.

hardinparamedic:redsquid: And somehow, even though you guys get plenty of gross stuff on you also, paramedics in uniform don't gross me out like folks in scrubs. I know it's all psychlogical, but that's the way it is.

You've never lived until you've had your vomit baptism.

I can also tell you from doing mouth to mouth what partially digested Spagetti-Os and Vodak tastes like.

hardinparamedic:redsquid: And somehow, even though you guys get plenty of gross stuff on you also, paramedics in uniform don't gross me out like folks in scrubs. I know it's all psychlogical, but that's the way it is.

You've never lived until you've had your vomit baptism.

I can also tell you from doing mouth to mouth what partially digested Spagetti-Os and Vodak tastes like.

Headed on a call. You guys hold down the fort. *salute*

Good luck.

Also, while I don't envy having to give mouth-to-mouth and all the horrible things people have in their mouths when they need it, it has to be better than the smells that came from the trail of partially digested rice and other things that came out of a gentleman's colostomy hole ( hole, not bag - it had fallen off, you see) as he tried to check into the ER where I work.

Uakronkid:HotWingAgenda: I'm starting to get a little nervous about being in one of the few parts of the country that has not had a major catastrophic event in the last 6 months. It's like being the last cow in line at the slaughterhouse and seeing all the other cows go down in front of you.

I live in Ohio. Nothing happens here. No major weather events, no earthquakes, no industrial disasters, not interesting enough for terrorists. We're boring enough that fate might just forget about us and skip us by.

CraicBaby:crotchgrabber: As an emergency dispatcher, I tend to be quiet and just lurk. Subby is right. If you don't know what you're doing and you are not in the command chain, then stay the fark out of the way.

We have had some in depth reminders this week about various shiat

I find it slightly disconcerting that an emergency dispatcher has the Fark handle "crotchgrabber".

They've got nothing better to do during their shift. It also explains why units keep crossing paths on the way to calls.

As a volunteer firefighter in the middle of nowhere, this is my recurring nightmare; a fire that rapidly gets beyond our capabilities in a bad way.

Last summer, we got a call that lightning struck the Esso Oil tank farm in town, and that there was smoke showing. No page went out right away, but a few of us went down to the hall to see what was up. I remember wondering about just what the hell we were going to do if it really did get hit; there's only 20 of us, the closest mutual aid is 1200km to the south, and we`ve only got two pumpers and a few water/shiat trucks at our disposal. We talked a bit about the "rule of thumb", as in put your thumb up in your field of vision, and if you can still see the fire, you're too farking close...

Terrible, terrible news... I'm not a praying man myself, but our whole department is hoping for the best of a bad situation down there. Sounds as though this will be one of those lessons learned issues of Firehouse in the coming months though...

Myria:You know, Kim Jong Un could be getting pissed at being thrown off the news by two terrorist attacks and an industrial accident. That's one way in which this week could get worse...

The Severe Storms Forecast Center says that a moderate risk for severe weather extends from SW Michigan to the AR-LA-MS borders. It's "cross-hatched", which means that the severe weather may be extra-severe (EF2 tornadoes, 2" hail, 74+ mph winds). So KJU will have to get in line.

JPINFV:CraicBaby: crotchgrabber: As an emergency dispatcher, I tend to be quiet and just lurk. Subby is right. If you don't know what you're doing and you are not in the command chain, then stay the fark out of the way.

We have had some in depth reminders this week about various shiat

I find it slightly disconcerting that an emergency dispatcher has the Fark handle "crotchgrabber".

They've got nothing better to do during their shift. It also explains why units keep crossing paths on the way to calls.

Uakronkid:hardinparamedic: redsquid: And somehow, even though you guys get plenty of gross stuff on you also, paramedics in uniform don't gross me out like folks in scrubs. I know it's all psychlogical, but that's the way it is.

You've never lived until you've had your vomit baptism.

I can also tell you from doing mouth to mouth what partially digested Spagetti-Os and Vodak tastes like.

Headed on a call. You guys hold down the fort. *salute*

Good luck.

Also, while I don't envy having to give mouth-to-mouth and all the horrible things people have in their mouths when they need it, it has to be better than the smells that came from the trail of partially digested rice and other things that came out of a gentleman's colostomy hole ( hole, not bag - it had fallen off, you see) as he tried to check into the ER where I work.

OK there is no amount of money in the world that would feel like fair pay for that kind of stuff.Thanks for doing it.*cringe*

hardinparamedic:redsquid: And somehow, even though you guys get plenty of gross stuff on you also, paramedics in uniform don't gross me out like folks in scrubs. I know it's all psychlogical, but that's the way it is.

You've never lived until you've had your vomit baptism.

I can also tell you from doing mouth to mouth what partially digested Spagetti-Os and Vodak tastes like.

Headed on a call. You guys hold down the fort. *salute*

Farkied you as being a fellow, "in the business". Can't say who I'm with organizationally on public media, but I'm a FF/medic close by. My department sent hazmat regional response for mutual aid. After the first explosion, there were reports of ammonia leaking. Worked in the business for a while with a guy whose brother was reported to be on scene when the explosion (looks like a BLEVE to me) occurred. Another brother that lives 12 miles away felt the explosion and had his house doors blown shut.

For the douche talking earlier about comparing wearing his lab coat to EMS: fark you. If you had anything to do with emergency management, you'd know not to armchair quarterback. You, sir or ma'am, may go to hell and take your farking phlebotomist or piss-dunking qualification with you. biatch.

Hardinparamedic, the posts you've been making in this thread are spot on. Thank you.

I don't think you're referring to California, but I live in California, earthquake central as far as the U.S. is concerned. I'm not really afraid of earthquakes, because our infrastructure is better designed for them, out of necessity and sad experience. Whereas that 5.0 earthquake that shook the East Coast caused people there to be scared, a 5.0 to us generally a short fun ride. Real damage doesn't occur until the 6.0's.

Modern large California earthquakes cause plenty of damage and deaths, but nothing on the scale of something like a powerful hurricane.

hardinparamedic:redsquid: And somehow, even though you guys get plenty of gross stuff on you also, paramedics in uniform don't gross me out like folks in scrubs. I know it's all psychlogical, but that's the way it is.

You've never lived until you've had your vomit baptism.

I can also tell you from doing mouth to mouth what partially digested Spagetti-Os and Vodak tastes like.

I don't think you're referring to California, but I live in California, earthquake central as far as the U.S. is concerned. I'm not really afraid of earthquakes, because our infrastructure is better designed for them, out of necessity and sad experience. Whereas that 5.0 earthquake that shook the East Coast caused people there to be scared, a 5.0 to us generally a short fun ride. Real damage doesn't occur until the 6.0's.

Modern large California earthquakes cause plenty of damage and deaths, but nothing on the scale of something like a powerful hurricane.

Earthquakes on the East Coast are more problematic because the bedrock is rigid and carry the waves about three times farther out than they do in California.

Also, I think he was referring to Alaska, which makes California look like a bastion of geological stability.

Larmer:As a volunteer firefighter in the middle of nowhere, this is my recurring nightmare; a fire that rapidly gets beyond our capabilities in a bad way.

Last summer, we got a call that lightning struck the Esso Oil tank farm in town, and that there was smoke showing. No page went out right away, but a few of us went down to the hall to see what was up. I remember wondering about just what the hell we were going to do if it really did get hit; there's only 20 of us, the closest mutual aid is 1200km to the south, and we`ve only got two pumpers and a few water/shiat trucks at our disposal. We talked a bit about the "rule of thumb", as in put your thumb up in your field of vision, and if you can still see the fire, you're too farking close...

Terrible, terrible news... I'm not a praying man myself, but our whole department is hoping for the best of a bad situation down there. Sounds as though this will be one of those lessons learned issues of Firehouse in the coming months though...

Pre-fire plan and set unmanned master streams if you can. Evacuate area ASAP. If your department hasn't planned for this, please keep pushing and don't give in to the "won't ever happen to us" mentality. Thoe only thing more tragic than losing firefighters is not learning from the situation that caused it. Be safe, brother.

Mutt Farkinov:hardinparamedic: redsquid: And somehow, even though you guys get plenty of gross stuff on you also, paramedics in uniform don't gross me out like folks in scrubs. I know it's all psychlogical, but that's the way it is.

You've never lived until you've had your vomit baptism.

I can also tell you from doing mouth to mouth what partially digested Spagetti-Os and Vodak tastes like.

Just heard ab out this now, here....I have family in West. It's a tiny village, not even remotely big enough to call a town. Hope they're ok...imagine family would have called to tell me otherwise, though.

Mutt Farkinov:Larmer: As a volunteer firefighter in the middle of nowhere, this is my recurring nightmare; a fire that rapidly gets beyond our capabilities in a bad way.

Last summer, we got a call that lightning struck the Esso Oil tank farm in town, and that there was smoke showing. No page went out right away, but a few of us went down to the hall to see what was up. I remember wondering about just what the hell we were going to do if it really did get hit; there's only 20 of us, the closest mutual aid is 1200km to the south, and we`ve only got two pumpers and a few water/shiat trucks at our disposal. We talked a bit about the "rule of thumb", as in put your thumb up in your field of vision, and if you can still see the fire, you're too farking close...

Terrible, terrible news... I'm not a praying man myself, but our whole department is hoping for the best of a bad situation down there. Sounds as though this will be one of those lessons learned issues of Firehouse in the coming months though...

Pre-fire plan and set unmanned master streams if you can. Evacuate area ASAP. If your department hasn't planned for this, please keep pushing and don't give in to the "won't ever happen to us" mentality. Thoe only thing more tragic than losing firefighters is not learning from the situation that caused it. Be safe, brother.

We've had a lot of changes in the last year, new chief that's former DND firefighter, so we're plowing our way through the commercial and multi unit residential buildings for pre fires. Our main issue is water supply, as we don't have conventional hydrant systems, only above ground "utilidor" water lines in the town proper. Anything outside town limits is water shuttle, so supplying the master streams are an issue.

A few years ago we lost a hangar with a couple King Airs and a Twin Otter in it, went up quick, and we had 6 DND personnel with crash trucks on site for that one at least. Can't really put out a fire without the wet stuff.

We're running safe now, but when you're as remote as we are, evac is the only option for the holy fark fires...

Thanks for the advice, quite the brotherhood we've got going in the fire service... ;)

I responded to the 35W bridge collapse as a paramedic, and can tell you that the amount of people who self-dispatched was staggering. Fire trucks and squads showing up from departments from God knows where all trying to help when we were trying to CLEAR the roads and radio traffic to get ambulances out. All these folks succeeded in doing was keeping rescuers from doing their job. It was a clusterf*ck.

STAY THE HELL AWAY unless you are summoned.

Don't get me wrong, people have good intentions, but if you aren't requested, you hinder the process. There is a method to the madness of incident command structure at a mass casualty incident.

Frederick:Theres such a thing as too much help? Wouldnt it make more sense to arrive and stand by out of the way? Or is the thought process that people dont know what "out of the way" is?

When I was volunteering (disaster relief, not first responder), there were generally three kinds of volunteers who would show up uninvited.

There were the ones who wouldn't get in your way, but they would decide that if you'e not digging through a house right at that moment, you're never going to, so that's where they should be. If they didn't leave when told, they would nearly always end up needing medical treatment.

There were the "I pay your salary" types, (never mind that nearly every worker on the site was with a charity), who would take charge and start directing newcomers on what to do, often straight into condemned buildings. Usually it would take a police officer to convince them to leave.

And there were the ones who knew what they were doing and how to follow instructions. They would show up at the staging area (as opposed to just grabbing a shovel) agree to register before doing anything else, and didn't complain about being put on the supply line until they could get properly trained for search and rescue. I only know of two people from this group, a couple who had applied a month before and wanted to make themselves available since they lived in the area and knew that most of our volunteers wouldn't arrive for a few days.

Of course this is a first responder situation with an ongoing risk of explosion, so the danger increases exponentially just for showing up, and merely driving through will contribute to traffic problems for the emergency crews who really can help.

Yamaneko2:Uakronkid: HotWingAgenda: I'm starting to get a little nervous about being in one of the few parts of the country that has not had a major catastrophic event in the last 6 months. It's like being the last cow in line at the slaughterhouse and seeing all the other cows go down in front of you.

I live in Ohio. Nothing happens here. No major weather events, no earthquakes, no industrial disasters, not interesting enough for terrorists. We're boring enough that fate might just forget about us and skip us by.

Watching a live video stream from Texas, I've heart two different reporters ask two different people "what's in your heart?". Is that some kind of Texas thing? Or Jesus thing? Or both? Or am I having auditory hallucinations?