You guys are still missing it. Im done after this by the way. Yes Satan had a choice. But he only chose what was made available to him. Satan chose an option and consequence that was hand crafted and perfectly designed by God. The choice to rebel and become the leading host of darkness. Rebellion, Envy and Covetness are spirits that Satan grabbed hold of. What were spirits like that doing in Heaven to begin with boggles my mind everytime I think about it. But whatever the case, no matter how strange this might sound, Satan is only Satan by the power of God. Period.

Man you know I love you guy but I cant agree with you on this one. Satan was one of the highest and most honored beings in Heaven, he wasn't like one of the angles, he had leadership... Satan was given a free will just like all the other angles in heaven.. Satan was not satisfied with his position which was already one of greatness he wanted to be God... What this does prove is that sin started in Heaven.. God IS a God of truly free freedom, he let Satan make his own decisions, he gave mankind his own free will to make their own decisions, he has laid out his rules and has given everyone the same fighting chance to succeed in him. Is God all knowing yes but not in the way that most interpret all knowing to be. God does not create life and just condemns them to damnation, he gives them a chance to choose.

Man you know I love you guy but I cant agree with you on this one. Satan was one of the highest and most honored beings in Heaven, he wasn't like one of the angles, he had leadership... Satan was given a free will just like all the other angles in heaven.. Satan was not satisfied with his position which was already one of greatness he wanted to be God... What this does prove is that sin started in Heaven.. God IS a God of truly free freedom, he let Satan make his own decisions, he gave mankind his own free will to make their own decisions, he has laid out his rules and has given everyone the same fighting chance to succeed in him. Is God all knowing yes but not in the way that most interpret all knowing to be. God does not create life and just condemns them to damnation, he gives them a chance to choose.

i actually believe sin started in the Garden..not saying ur wrong BBD,but thats my opinion,but what ur saying has strong meaning behind it..so it will be hard to argue..

I haven't read all of the responses on this thread. But my take on what I have read thus far is that I think that one thing that will sum this whole situation up whether you agree or disagree with Prop 8 is to reference Deut 28. I believe that will say it all.

Lots of interesting responses in this thread. Lots to think about. In any case, don't be found outside of the covering of Christ on judgement day! Do what it takes to make it in! That's more important than anything else.

Ezekiel 28:13-16Thou wast in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, the topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was in thee; in the day that thou wast created they were preparedThou wast the anointed cherub that covereth: and I set thee,'so that thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till unrighteousness was found in thee.By the abundance of thy traffic they filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore have I cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God; and I have destroyed thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

John 8:44You belong to your father the devil, and you want to carry out the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning and has never stood for truth, since there is no truth in him. Whenever he tells a lie he speaks in character, because he is a liar and the father of lies.

Ezekiel 28:13-16Thou wast in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, the topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was in thee; in the day that thou wast created they were preparedThou wast the anointed cherub that covereth: and I set thee,'so that thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till unrighteousness was found in thee.By the abundance of thy traffic they filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore have I cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God; and I have destroyed thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

John 8:44You belong to your father the devil, and you want to carry out the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning and has never stood for truth, since there is no truth in him. Whenever he tells a lie he speaks in character, because he is a liar and the father of lies.

all the scripture references about how sin started makes complete sense!! but..if God created all things..if He was first, then i think that includes sin too.....of course we have freewill to chose what path to take, but didnt God create freewill? he created everything else didnt He?? im not trying to argue but thats just how i feel, but at the end of the day only God knows 4 sure!

all the scripture references about how sin started makes complete sense!! but..if God created all things..if He was first, then i think that includes sin too.....of course we have freewill to chose what path to take, but didnt God create freewill? he created everything else didnt He?? im not trying to argue but thats just how i feel, but at the end of the day only God knows 4 sure!

dude....you just said that God created sin.....you know that right?

anywayGod gave us freewill......after that everything was up to us. How can he take responsibility for what Satan chose to do??? all he did was give him freedom to do what HE wanted to do.

anywayGod gave us freewill......after that everything was up to us. How can he take responsibility for what Satan chose to do??? all he did was give him freedom to do what HE wanted to do.

yea i know but thats based off of the fact that God created everything...sin didnt create itself, and satan didnt create himself either..God knew what satan was gonna do b4 He created him becuz God is all knowing...so maybe God could have not created satan! but God did create him...

yea i know but thats based off of the fact that God created everything...sin didnt create itself, and satan didnt create himself either..God knew what satan was gonna do b4 He created him becuz God is all knowing...so maybe God could have not created satan! but God did create him...

LOL! Dude its no use! Ive been trying to get them to see that but I guess they have it in their minds that God is not responsible for the creation of sin lol! You guys are crazy. Have you ever thought about what tempted Satin to rebell? Oh! You mean to tell me Satan was attacked by an evil spirit? But that would mean there was evil before Satan and he is nothing but a body to harness evil, a mere host? Uh yes, because in the begining was God, and God is both good and...ah forget it lol!

"Is it not from the mouth of the Most High that both calamities and good things come?" [Lam 3:38]

You know what else is super funny! In the scriptures, you never find Satan boasting about his power because he know's he cant take credit for it! He knows that without God, he is not even the most powerful demonic force lol! He was blessed, with a curse lol!!!

LOL! Dude its no use! Ive been trying to get them to see that but I guess they have it in their minds that God is not responsible for the creation of sin lol! You guys are crazy. Have you ever thought about what tempted Satin to rebell? Oh! You mean to tell me Satan was attacked by an evil spirit? But that would mean there was evil before Satan and he is nothing but a body to harness evil, a mere host? Uh yes, because in the begining was God, and God is both good and...ah forget it lol!

"Is it not from the mouth of the Most High that both calamities and good things come?" [Lam 3:38]

You see? God's word doesn't even deny what He is lol!

It kinda brings new meaning to:, "As I walk throught the valley of the shadow of death I will fear no evil for You are with me." If you're buds with the evilest dude in the universe the heck else you need to be afraid of? Lol.

LOL! Dude its no use! Ive been trying to get them to see that but I guess they have it in their minds that God is not responsible for the creation of sin lol! You guys are crazy. Have you ever thought about what tempted Satin to rebell? Oh! You mean to tell me Satan was attacked by an evil spirit? But that would mean there was evil before Satan and he is nothing but a body to harness evil, a mere host? Uh yes, because in the begining was God, and God is both good and...ah forget it lol!

"Is it not from the mouth of the Most High that both calamities and good things come?" [Lam 3:38]

You see? God's word doesn't even deny what He is lol!

break that verse down sheen cause i dont think that said anything! lol...

Not to interject race or anything... BUT! Black voters in California overwhelmingly supported Prop 8, but yet there are no reported protests in front of black churches. Why is that??? I'm sure there must be some pretty upset choir directors on the left coast...

Not to interject race or anything... BUT! Black voters in California overwhelmingly supported Prop 8, but yet there are no reported protests in front of black churches. Why is that??? I'm sure there must be some pretty upset choir directors on the left coast...

God bless

I was listening to the radio today, and this fool Michael Baisden was blaming Black Christians and putting us down for not supporting gay rights. Thats when I remembered why I dont like him. He claimed that those who supported it were imopsing thier beliefs on others , and that we should all just love each other.

I believe that by allowing it, they are imposing thier views on us and our children, and that the people have spoken, so too bad for the homos! Most people made this decision on thier moral beliefs, and if people happen to base thier moral beleifs on thier religion, then so be it.

I was listening to the radio today, and this fool Michael Baisden was blaming Black Christians and putting us down for not supporting gay rights. Thats when I remembered why I dont like him. He claimed that those who supported it were imopsing thier beliefs on others , and that we should all just love each other.

I believe that by allowing it, they are imposing thier views on us and our children, and that the people have spoken, so too bad for the homos! Most people made this decision on thier moral beliefs, and if people happen to base thier moral beleifs on thier religion, then so be it.

just venting......

As for the choir director comment,

Yeah I'm not a fan of MB and you know what ... *remembers whose she is*