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Juan - the lost in translation has to do with English not being your first language and how you are answering and reading some posts.

I think the way you say certain things as well as the way you are reading into what some others are saying can be construed by both sides as aggressiveness and even perhaps hostility which I appreciate is not where you are coming from - likewise you thought some people were being hostile or aggressive with you and they weren't - that is what I meant by the lost in translation.

I just ask that everyone remember this both for this thread and future ones as I think there has been a lot of misunderstanding based on that issue.

On a separate but related issue - I'm gonna admit that I'm pretty unhappy with the idea of giving out this website (actually the livings forums URL or this thread) to masses of people just to answer a question/debate about oral sex and HIV that is happening on another website. Yes this is a public board and a resource and we welcome all, but I have a problem that a thread in the Living with HIV section is going to be used to come up with evidence for any debate on another site. This goes back to my first issue when I posted on this thread of just posting an outdated article and then asking us to disprove it - Something in my gut tells me that is a misuse of the purpose of this site.

This may be just me and I'll accept it - but wanted to say what I felt on that point.

Iggy, with all due respect, I don\'t think it is an ESL issue. Juan Carlos has a very good grasp of the English Language and 4 others if the info on his blog is correct. He seems to be a nice well educated chap. I do sense some inflexiblity, for whatever reason. To him at this point, it is very important to be right with his theories. This will not endear patience with people on this website who are at different stages in their journey with the disease. Perhaps Juan Carlos is having an issue with the fact that he was quite cavalier the other night with not disclosing and not feeling guilty for it. Which speaks to his conscience that he may have infected someone. I don\'t know, soetimes I have to drop my LCSW and stop trying to make sense of people (although it\'s only human nature)...Guilty.

To him at this point, it is very important to be right with his theories.

Well, he certainly wouldn't be the only one. Juan Carlos asked a question, got different responses and, on that basis, was trying to digest and make up his own mind. As is his right.

Next he's accused of promoting a 'sky is falling attitude', stirring up 'hysteria' and having words put in his mouth like he's 'speaking through the anger of the newly diagnosed'.

A little sense of proportion would be helpful. No-one is saying it is a prevalent transmission route - some of us believe it is a low risk activity, that it probably happens relatively rarely, but that it does happen. We are also arguing that simple measures cut that small risk much further still. Funnily enough that is in line with the expert advice from public health agencies all across the world. Truly amazing just how threatening this appears to be...

I hope you are not including the CDC as having given expert advice nor the FDA. Both governmental offices changes their views depending on who's in the White House. Both take years to even update themselves to current scientific standards.

I hope you are not including the CDC as having given expert advice nor the FDA. Both governmental offices changes their views depending on who's in the White House. Both take years to even update themselves to current scientific standards.

Juan Carlos, I am really sick of your tone. Before you accuse anyone else of having a less than friendly demeanor on this website, examine some of the sarcasm in your words such as \"Huh?\"

Carolann.... i assume you are a lady, so with all my respect i suggest that if you feel sick, you should see a Dr. In this i am being a bit sarcastic by responding your agressive comment (as it sounds to me), not in anything i have posted before.

I did felt there was some agressiveness aganist keyite because of his/her comments (i don't know him/her), so that's what i pointed out. Although if you all say there was not, then fine... i personally didn't feel attacked. That part was behind already.... i though.

The "huh" does not always mean sacarsm, when i said it referring to Ann's post and file it meant to say "coo!!". "Ann, great file!!! University Complutense of Madrid, cool!! good scientific source, thanks". Perhaps it is not the way you use it over there and i am sorry, i am not native but i have the best intentions when i write, i am not up to "being agressive with others or assuming how others think and feel". I guess my teacher at University, was right when he said one should not pay attention to a single word in a sentence but to the meaning of the whole phrase to understand its real meaning.

This is also about Iggy comment and my phrase "lost in translation" which i though it would be funny.... but got some of you angry....i just though i was being creative, you know a funny comment. mmm perhaps my jokes does not sound good in english lol . I already pm with iggy and he knows i understood his comment right and i know some people feel i have poor english to communicate here. Perhaps i am not native, i have been the states just twice for short time, but i have had very few troubles in communicating while speaking english with other foreigners (switzerland, canada, russia,etc). In fact i was accepted to follow a major totally in English at Univesity so i guess my level is not that bad. As for me this just comes to the point that you are not seeing the context of my writing, nor the whole post, i agreed with Ann's info, and i have already stablished i find most of you right in your own trend. I actually though this topic was over... before your friendly comments(this is sarcastic as well but still friendly by the way).

You seem to dismiss everyone else and talk down to them. Many of the people posting herea are just stating an opinion. They believe, and I agree, that taking a \"the sky is falling attitude\" with the remote possibility of contracting HIV through oral sex is damaging to people living with challenges of this disease. I have a feeling you speak through the anger of the newly infected. But let\'s be frank here. You got it through your own carelessness.

"you seem" "i have a feeling" you chose the right words. You think i dismiss others, or talk down to them. I don't mean to do it. You have the feeling i speak through the anger of the newly infected. I don't do that. It is long to explain but you are wrong in boths statements, you are just assuming things like if you were inside my mind or my heart. I was frustrated because there was not an answer for this, then i understood that was the answer. I also requested urls from scientific sites because reading simple webpages is what started this thread, so something scientifical and oficial should be the oficial last word. And after reading the three sources i came up with my opinion. if that one is of your like or dislike i guess has nothing to do with this thread.... same with your assumptions. I feel some people here are expecting me to say i agree with them and not with the others.... but i won't, cause as for what i read....i am happy with my conclussion, that one is mine... and should not bother anyone cause you won't live with it, but me.

About the sky falling attitude... funny but i don't think it is my attitude, it is the attitude i have found in latin america, that's why i requested scientific sites as well cause a 2 months diagnosed cannot stand in front of a 10 years person living with aids and say.. "you are wrong, hiv cannnot be transmitted through oral sex". As i did... and like i said i was crucified, they asked me where i read it... and they laughed. So if i want to do that again... i needed a scientific oficial site, not a only a good site. Scientific sites are the less exposed in this thread... all others sites have no first hand information, nor official from a government or science institute or global health organisation, which is different. If that is sky falling attitude, dismissing others and so on.... up to you, i was just requesting scientific sources of information as it is my right.

Same... i would like you to re read my theory... i don't see it wrong, nor waking up hysteria anywhere.. i am pretty calmed . Lets keep things in proportion, please. Plus it is absolutely not up to you to "suggest i may have infected someone" and that is something i won't admit. watch out your words next time please.

By the way, i have my conclussion don't need others, i can read and analyse stuff. I learnt these days i don't want to live by what others say... specially if there are not scientific sources to support those other's beliefs.

Iggy i already sent this thread to those websites, but i won't do it again... eventhough i think that if we can have high level discussions here... it would be useful for others... but well... that's just my though.

i wanted to write more.. but guys... this is just out of topic, so i rather stop. No harms no hurts no anger against anyone. Just be conscious that international communication is always sensitive. As for the rest, i though this thread was over since yesterday night.

Have a good day

Juan Carlos (now knowing he is not as funny in english as he is in spanish ..ohh )

/edited to clarify i don't need spanish versions for all you write guys... i always read your links in english cause i know some stuff can be missing in the translation/

Keylite, with Emphasis added, the post was not directed to you. And as you see I only mentioned the CDC and the FDA which so happens to be both in the US. Now if I was going to mention any other so called experts I would have at least gave their countries credit.

I will say this and it makes sense to me there are going to be varying opinions about how easily you can transmit HIV orally. The old ID specially clinic I use to go to after I was diagnosed HIV+ is in Bethesda, MD and right across the street from NIH. NIH Doctors and researchers frequent between the Bethesda hospital and this is they're bread and butter.

I was told by well respected doctors and Nurses that contraction of HIV orally is unheard of. that doesn't mean no one has ever got it that way, who knows maybe no one knew they got it orally. However it matters not, i will not dispute what is a higher risk etc...back to what I was told that for it to happen it is a matter of timing, Cold sore to cut/cold sore, bleeding in to the open wound etc...In fact you would have to nearly have a lot of blood in you're mouth for this to happen. Disagree or agree i care not. I am on the bandwagon that says very low risk.

However you are more likely to contract Hepatitis, gonorrhea etc.. orally before you contract HIV orally in my opinion. However there are not enough case studies, data groups, sample sizes to prove how likely you will contract HIV orally so until it is proven then we are arguing back and forth with no real results.