Barry Strassler ) wrote:
: Hello all of you out there:
:
: I don't know if this newsgroup is an appropriate one for me to post a
: message - but I am a sports writer and am doing a feature on Ildiko
: Rojto, the deaf woman fencer from Hungary who competed in five Olympics
: (1960, 1964, 1968, 1972 and 1976) and won medals in fencing.
:
: I need a picture of her to accompany the story. Would any of you know
: where I could be able to get a picture of Rojto? The financial resources
: of my publication is rather limited and may not afford to pay a high
: price for such a picture.
:
: Hope to hear from any of you and thank you very much.
:
: Barry Strassler
: Sports Editor
: Silent News (USA)
:
her name was "rejto" with a diacritical mark on the "o".
are you sure she was deaf?
d.a.

Yui Op ) wrote:
: a recent survey revealed that 99% of hungarians subsist on a diet of
: sausage and cabage and fart a lot
well farting a lot is a lot better than being unable to relieve
the gas pressure due to the cabbage and sausage in a dobos torta.
d.a.

hi from Turkey
people know that Chechens are fighting for a long time against the
Russians but who fights for what I cannot really blame Russians nor
Chechens but this war is only harming the innocents as usual I hope this
also will be over soon.
On Thu, 18 Jan 1996, Joe Szalai wrote:
> Is anyone on this newsgroup outraged by the vicious attacks on the Chechen> rebels by the Russian army, or am I just having difficulty adjusting to the> new world order? I know that the Chechens have lost some support for their> cause because they've taken hostages and have resorted to terrorist actions.> However, the Russian attact on the village of Pervomaskaya reminds me of the> seventies when in Vietnam, the Americans would destroy a village in order to> save it. That kind of tactic didn't work then and I think that it wont work> now.>> I find the silence of western governments to Russian excesses in Chechnya> difficult to understand. If these kinds of brutal, savage, military attacks> against a minority are allowed to happen in one part of the world then I> fear for minorities in every part of the world.>> I post to this newsgroup because Hungarians know what can happen when Russia> flexes its might.>> Joe Szalai>

McGill University just bought the series HUNGARY A VIDEO HISTORY. I viewed
the first part. It is excellent except that occasionally the background music
is too loud and the commentator's voice is not loud enough.
Volume One: Medieval Hungary
Part One: Arpad Hungary (45 min)
Part Two (Golden Age of Hungary, 1301-1437) and Part Three (Hungary in
Greatness and Decline, 1437-1526) have just arrived but I have not seen them
yet.
You can order them from
Roger Conanat Presentations, 7-b Brook Hill Lane, Rochester, N.Y. 14625
716-586-1241. At least that is the address that was given to me at the
Szechenyi Library presentation two years ago.
Peter I. Hidas, Montreal

Several books and articles recently published may be of general
interest to the readership:
The latest issue of EEPS (East European Politics and Societies)
Vol. 9, No. 3, published by the University of California Press,
contains an article by Peter Gedeon, "Hungary: Social Policy in
Transition". It sketches, in broad outline and backed by statistics,
the evolution of post-communist social policy.
The same issue, in a long letter to the editor, under the rubrik
"A New Slavic Language is Born", P.R. Magocsi celebrates the codification
of the Rusyn language, spoken by many in Karpatalja.
In their series East European Monographs, Columbia University Press
published
Ignac Romsics:
Istvan Bethlen
A Great Conservative Statesman of Hungary, 1874-1946
also,
Bela K. Kiraly and Laszlo Veszpremy:
Trianon and East Central Europe.
The telephone number of Columbia University Press is 800 944 8648
Also,
Walder, A.G. (Ed.):
The Waning of the Communist State
Economic Origins of Political Decline in China and Hungary
University of California Press
Their phone number is 800 822 6657
CSABA K. ZOLTANI

-cut-
>> Please notice the phrase "too often an excuse..." There are outspoken> women that I very much respect, eg. Jeane Kirkpatrick, Maggie Thatcher.> These, I consider as role model politicians or statesmen, but not as role> model women. In fact, it's hard to imagine them as women at all.>
-cut-
So we can't win. If we are clever and intelligent like men,
than we lost our identity/feminity. If we are clever and
intelligent in a not-man-like manner, than we are wierd/bitchy.
So as our brain is different, we shouldn't have a choice in what we
do, we should concentrate on childrearing and domestic toil,
that should sure stop our brain function soon in any compatitive
way in the men's world...

In article >, Joe Szalai
> writes:
>>I'd have to agree with Joe on this one - I came to the conclusion long>>ago that women had larger brains. Of course, the dinosaurs had large>>brains as well!>>With an agreement like this, who needs disagreement? As for dinosaurs,
I'm
>sure J.A. Szalai is related to one. As for the rest of his dribble, all
I
>can say is that if he plans to go and sow his wild oats this weekend, I
hope
>he has crop failure. Although he's new to this group, one of him is
already
>more than enough.>>Joe G. Szalai
Whoa, testosterone surge!!! Joltin' Joe G. eschews the rhetorical
rope-a-dope for a flurry of jabs!!! Can Joe A. shake it off and
counterpunch effectively or is he just another glass-jawed bleeder like
Gerry Cooney? Talk about your Hungarian sports legends!
Sam Stowe
P.S. -- Joe G., your "sowing wild oats" metaphor shows incredible
insensitivity to those cultivators who, through accident or illness, don't
have a functioning dibble.

> Felado : [Canada]> Temakor: Re: Feminism in Hungary/general ( 18 sor )> At 12:51 PM 1/18/96 -0500, Eva Balogh wrote:>> >And preferably be quiet. Nothing annoys them more than an intelligent,> >educated, liberated, outspoken woman. Like wolves they jump on her and> >suddenly all that old-fashioned gentlemanly attitude disappear--only> >ugliness remains.>> I have to agree with Eva Balogh's comments.>> Because I'm a man, I've had the chance to listen to other men say the most> misogynistic nonsense imaginable. Obviously, not all men are male> chauvinist pigs. However, the percentage who are is scandalous.
I have to disagree with E1va and Joe somewhat. True, the situation of
women in Hungary is not good, but I'd say it is still slightly better
than in Austria (in many ways a cultural role model for Hungary) where
Kinder Kirche Ku2che is the prevailing attitude. We can also compare
Hungary to places with the same overall level of socioeconomic
development, and it is considerably better than Latin America with its
pig-brained machismo.
Also, I had the good fortune of knowing several intelligent, educated,
liberated, outspoken women, and I'd say the generalization that their
mere existence brings out the wolf/pig/Mr. Macho side of Hungarian men
is way overstated. No doubt such women have to put up with a lot of
nonsense their male counterparts wouldn't have to. But this is also
true in the US, which is one of the better places for women.
Andra1s Kornai

James Doepp writes:
>I guess they just respond to ugliness with more ugliness... Nothing>wrong with intelligent and educated women, but liberated and outspoken is>too often an excuse for bitchy.>
I hate to tell you Jim, you are wrong. I was thinking specifically of those
wonderful "gentlemen" on the Hungarian-language *Forum*. Believe me I never
write anything which could be construed as bitchy. Before you make any
further pronouncements on the subject, read a few days' worth of Forum--You
will know what I mean.
Eva Balogh

> Reply to: RE>>Feminism in Hungary/gene>Yes, and dinosaurs were the dominant life form on earth for 185 million years!
And nothing to show for it but bad Japanese monster movies and rich
Arabs!
Doug Hormann

>> James Doepp writes:>> >I guess they just respond to ugliness with more ugliness... Nothing> >wrong with intelligent and educated women, but liberated and outspoken is> >too often an excuse for bitchy.> >> I hate to tell you Jim, you are wrong. I was thinking specifically of those> wonderful "gentlemen" on the Hungarian-language *Forum*. Believe me I never> write anything which could be construed as bitchy. Before you make any> further pronouncements on the subject, read a few days' worth of Forum--You> will know what I mean.>> Eva Balogh>
Doepp Ur., if a man acts like that, in the manner you describe, what
adjective do you prefer to use in any language?
Good weekend to all, Darren

Eva Balogh wrote:
>I hate to tell you Jim, you are wrong. I was thinking specifically of those>wonderful "gentlemen" on the Hungarian-language *Forum*. Believe me I never>write anything which could be construed as bitchy. Before you make any>further pronouncements on the subject, read a few days' worth of Forum--You>will know what I mean.
I do not remember that anyone had any problem with your gender on the Hungarian
-
language *Forum*, Eva. Of course they disagree with your opinions and sometimes
use rude language, but they do the same with each other (like everybody versus
Voros Miklos or Olorin versus Lajcsi). To use this as an example of male
chauvinism, well, is a somewhat arbitrary interpretation of the truth.
Janos

Haliho,
Andras Kornai wrote:
>We can also compare>Hungary to places with the same overall level of socioeconomic>development, and it is considerably better than Latin America with its>pig-brained machismo.
You're correct about the Latino men, being half Puerto Rican/half Magyar myself
(some mix eh?? Temper, temper. No Freddie Prinze references, please.), but
Latino women have come a hell of a long way, more than Hungarian women have in
recent years, you've got to admit. One thing I've noticed, being on both sides
of the fence, is that Latino and Hungarian women are equally as vicious when
scorned. Wow!!! So, fellas treat your ladies right to begin with and you'll
have no problems (ez az lanyok).
Udv.,
Czifra Jancsi
john_czifra @ shi.com

Well Joe, how did you guess????? You were right on the money when you
said that I was related to a dinosaur! In fact, I have an uncle that is
a dinosaur; although he more resembles that of a dragon with some of the
flames that come out of his mouth.
Unfortunately for you, I suppose, I am quite proud of the dribble I emit,
and am therefore not inclined to stop any time in the near future. To
you, I ask: Is there any possible reason you can give for WHY feminism
in Hungary would differ from feminism in any other part of the world?
Perhaps it is time that Hungarians realize that they are people, just
like everyone else on this planet. Culture and language may differ
(among other things), but the fact that they are human beings remains
constant! To think of Hungarians as far and apart from the rest of the world
exudes the ignorance displayed by people such as yourself.
Jason A Szalai

Andras Kornai wrote:
>I have to disagree with E1va and Joe somewhat. True, the situation of>women in Hungary is not good, but I'd say it is still slightly better>than in Austria (in many ways a cultural role model for Hungary) where>Kinder Kirche Ku2che is the prevailing attitude. We can also compare>Hungary to places with the same overall level of socioeconomic>development, and it is considerably better than Latin America with its>pig-brained machismo.
So, should Hungarian women be humble because there are other places where
women are worse off? If your logic is accepted then Hungarians shouldn't
complain about Hungarian minorities in Romania or Slovakia because they're
still better off then Chechens or Kurds.
>Also, I had the good fortune of knowing several intelligent, educated,>liberated, outspoken women, and I'd say the generalization that their>mere existence brings out the wolf/pig/Mr. Macho side of Hungarian men>is way overstated. No doubt such women have to put up with a lot of>nonsense their male counterparts wouldn't have to. But this is also>true in the US, which is one of the better places for women.
Better is not equal! Feminism is about equality. So, Andras -- which part
of equality do you not understand?
Joe Szalai

Haliho,
This summer, I actually would like to relax while I'm in Hungary. Seeing and
staying with relatives (whom I love so much) is never a vacation, admit it. I
have a girlfriend (that I love and I'd marry in a heartbeat ) in Budapest and I
want to spend a lot more quality time with her and get away from people we
know. I'd like to stay someplace quiet in Hungary, but if I don't come up with
anything I'll wind up going to Austria with her. I don't want to do the Balaton
because it's been done and I'm not impressed with it as much as I used to be.
It's overpriced and overated. I want to stay away from Hajdu-Bihar, Bekes,
Heves, and Pest megye because I have (((((((((((((((this))))))))))))))) many
relatives there. How about Northeastern Hungary?? Anything up there?? Tokaj??
I've never been there. Salgotarjan?? I need a nice lake, a ton of forest, a
nice mountain, a good restuarant, a good borozo, and a place to stay (Ahhh!!!).
I'm putting my faith in you (I don't believe this) all to help me. The winner
of this "Make Andi es Jancsi Boldog Contest!!" will get absolutely nothing!!!
You'll get my praise and utmost respect (if it does the trick of course),
that's about it. Think romantic, fellas. Prove that not all Hungarian men are
as barbaric as we once were and that we can pull through when it comes to
romance.
Good Luck!!!
(Oh yeah, women can participate as well, since they have a better idea of what
a woman wants anyway.) ;-)
Udv.,
Czifra Jancsi
john_czifra @ shi.com

Let me make a few personal observation on the topic.
My father used to say that the bringing up of children is the business of of
my mother. That took place in the 40s and the early 50s. I did a little better.
My wife worked and looked after the kids. I helped her but we did not share
the diper business. My children, who are Canadian share the work. My nieces
in Hungary are only at phase two. An MD friend of mine always complained or
rather told me the problem of Hungarian female-doctors: nobody wants to marry
a smart women.
In Budapest women, middle class and upper class women had no trouble finding
professional jobs. The trend continued in the 50s. The communist paid only
lip-service to gender-equality. There were very few women in leading
ppositions, in
the party, at head of companies etc. There was no propaganda campaign for
men doing household chores, helping with the bringing up of children. Sexist
jokes could be heard everywhere and are not objected to even today.
Liberation is a long way away.
Peter I. Hidas, Montreal

zcapl74 > wrote:
> O.K., mainstream sports! But you are wrong with athletics, ice hockey
,
> swimming and sailing; and even golf - O.k. he was an American Hungarian (I> think Bokros was his name, great player during the seventies)
I think you mean Julius Boros. He died of a heart attack last
May, ironically just as his son (Guy Boros, if I recall correctly) was
taking part in the Colonial Invitational (the PGA tour's stop in my lovely
home town, Fort Worth, Texas). 8-)
Norb

On Thu, 18 Jan 1996, Joe Szalai wrote:
> At 04:19 PM 1/18/96 -0500, James Doepp wrote:>> >I guess they just respond to ugliness with more ugliness... Nothing> >wrong with intelligent and educated women, but liberated and outspoken is> >too often an excuse for bitchy.>> Welcome back James.>> Men are already liberated, vis-a-vis women. Would you call an intelligent,> educated, and outspoken man, a bitch or a role model? Since I'm sure of> what your answer will be, can I ask why you have a double standard?>> Joe Szalai>
Please notice the phrase "too often an excuse..." There are outspoken
women that I very much respect, eg. Jeane Kirkpatrick, Maggie Thatcher.
These, I consider as role model politicians or statesmen, but not as role
model women. In fact, it's hard to imagine them as women at all.
The problem is when women, who are naturally more sensitive, try to deny
their own femininity and become 'just like' us men. Only they cannot
isolate their self from their selfness; the self is in conflict with the
self, and the self becomes distorted. Externally 'liberated', women
internally have lost their own identity. In a more concrete way, this
can be seen when discussing sensitive issues like this one. When a
'liberated' woman is outspoken, this usually means she is angry. If she
is serious, this usually means she takes the feminist debate personally.
I don't say that all outspoken women are like this. Only when they ARE
successful in distancing their emotions from the debate, then I no longer
look at them as women, but rather as philosophers, politicians,
astronauts, or whatever. It could also be that in their personal lives
these non-bitchy outspoken women display woman-like characteristics -
sensitive, caring, family-centred. I don't know. CAN a person
compartmentalise her live in this way? I don't know.
Finally, I think the new feminism of the nineties is coming to realise
that there are such differences between men and women, and I consider it a
step in the right direction. These differences are also supported by
biology, which has shown, for example, that behavioural differences can
be explained because certain parts of the brain in the female are larger
than in the male, and other parts are larger in the male.
Jim
/ / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / /
James D. Doepp
University of Miskolc (Hungary)
Department of Economic Theory
"...if pleasure and liking, pain and dislike, are formed in the
soul on right lines before the age of understanding is reached,
and when that age is attained, these feelings are in concord with
understanding, thanks to early discipline in appropriate habits -
this concord, regarded as a whole, is virtue. But if you consider
one factor in it, the rightly disciplined state of pleasures and
pains whereby man, from his first beginnings on, will abhor what
he should abhor and relish what he should relish - if you isolate
this factor and call it education, you will be giving it its true name."
Plato, Laws II
/ / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / /