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Sunday, July 21, 2013

Conquering William's DNA

One of my favorite aspects of y-DNA is that it’s used to prove or disprove that two men with the same last name are closely related. Two family lines with a similar surname can figure out if they have a common ancestor. The DNA matches or it doesn’t. What do you do if the common ancestor you are looking for doesn’t have a surname? If you are researching the British Isles, the surname you are looking for is probably less than 1,000 years old.

What were the surnames associated with William the Conqueror? To start, who was William the Conqueror? William the ‘bastard’ was born about 1028 in Normandy, the illegitimate son of Robert I, Duke of Normandy, and Herleva. William was the 3rd great grandson of Rollo, the Viking who harassed the French so much that they gave him Normandy in order to make him stop.

In 1066, when King Edward ‘the confessor’ of England died, William was a potential heir to the English crown. When he didn’t get the nod, he took the crown by force by defeating and killing King Harold at the Battle of Hastings.

Finding the DNA of William the Conqueror is not that easy. He has no documented living male-line descendants. King Henry I was his last legitimate offspring. If you look in the phone book, you won’t find too many names listed under Conqueror, William T. That makes asking for a DNA sample problematic.

We have to look at the entire line of Dukes from the House of Normandy to identify the surnames that they would eventually adopt. The line from Rollo to William looks like this – Rollo (846-931) > William I (900-942) > Richard I (933-996) > Richard II (978-1026) > Robert I (1000-1035) > William II (1028-1087). To start, there is some evidence, true or not, that the surnames Clifford, Devereaux and St. Clair have a direct connection back to Richard I and Richard II. It’s not my goal to prove anyone’s genealogy. Many medieval genealogies are pure fiction, geneamyth. Although, with ever story there may be a piece of the truth. Some of William’s companions at the Battle of Hastings were his cousins and it would have made sense for him to surround himself with kin. I collected those names and others that had a tenuous connection.

I began the process with the following 27 names; Bartelott, Beaumont, Bruce, Clifford, Corbett, D’Arcy, Devereaux, Giffard, Hereford, Lindsay, Molyneaux, Montgomery, Mortimer, Mowbray, Neville, Norman, Norton, Osbern, Pearsall, Ramsey, Spencer, St. Clair, Stewart, Sutton, Talbott, Umfreville and Warren. While this is not an exhaustive list, it did provide 3,800 records to sift through.

DNA records for these surnames were collected from publically available sources and sorted into haplogroups. Remember, everyone is related. It’s just a question of how far back in time they share a common ancestor. Members of haplogroups I and J may share an ancestor about 30,000 years ago, but my goal is to find as many surnames that have a common ancestor about 1,000 years ago. So, DNA comparison was limited to within haplogroups. Immediately, groups E1b, G2a, I2, J and R1a were eliminated for having no cross surname relationships.

The first likely candidate was haplogroup I1. I1 would make sense. It is a typical Scandinavian group and Rollo is supposed to be either Norwegian or Danish. There was some good cross surname relationships among 8 of the 27 surnames. More analysis showed that they didn’t form a tight clan and that their common ancestor would have been over 1,250 years ago. That predates Rollo. This doesn’t completely rule out haplogroup I1, but my expectation was that there would be a higher number of surnames and a common ancestor between Rollo and William.

The next candidate was group R1b, the most populous haplogroup in Europe and having a potential Scandinavian or continental Europe origin. This group clustered well across 25 of the 27 surnames and revealed a genetically related clan. To make sure that this wasn’t a false positive or something symptomatic about the large R1b population, I took a random sample of British Isles R1b y-DNA and ran the same comparison. The random sample did not group well and actually formed multiple clusters.

This looks very positive for the R1b group. Twenty-one of the surnames are tightly related enough that their common ancestor lived 1,080 years ago (933 AD), coincidentally the birth year of Richard I. All common ancestor calculations come with a margin of error. I’d say this estimate is plus or minus a generation. Clifford, Devereaux and St. Clair, with their genealogical connection remain in this group as well as Beaumont, Giffard, Montgomery, Mortimer, Osbern and Warren.

The odd thing about this second group of names is that they all, genealogically, connect back to Gunnora, wife/concubine of Richard I. Beaumont and Giffard are descendants of Duvelina, a sister of Gunnora. Osbern is a descendant of Herfast, a brother of Gunnora. None of this common y-DNA came from Gunnora or her sister; being female, they don’t have y-DNA to pass down. We have to look for a common male donor. My theory is that the practice of droit du seigneur – ‘right of the lord’ or primae noctis – ‘right of the first night’ was being used by Richard to increase his genetic success.

Do you have a connection to William the Conqueror? There is an estimate that 25% of the population of England is related to Bill the Conq. From a y-DNA perspective, this percentage would be lower. If you have one of these surnames; Bartelott, Beaumont, Bruce, Clifford, Corbett, D’Arcy, Devereaux, Giffard, Molyneaux, Montgomery, Mortimer, Norton, Osbern, Pearsall, Ramsey, Spencer, St. Clair, Stewart, Talbott, Umfreville (Humphrey) or Warren and match the 37-marker William the Conqueror Modal Haplotype (WCMH), you may be related.

DYS393

DYS390

DYS19

DYS391

DYS385a

DYS385b

DYS426

DYS388

DYS439

DYS389i

DYS392

DYS389ii

13

24

14

11

11

14

12

12

12

13

13

29

DYS458

DYS459a

DYS459b

DYS455

DYS454

DYS447

DYS437

DYS448

DYS449

DYS464a

DYS464b

DYS464c

DYS464d

17

9

10

11

11

25

15

19

29

15

15

17

17

DYS460

Y-GATA-H4

YCAIIa

YCAIIb

DYS456

DYS607

DYS576

DYS570

CDYa

CDYb

DYS442

DYS438

11

11

19

23

15

15

17

17

36

37

12

12

You might match the WCMH within a few steps and not have one of those surnames. The wealthy practiced polygyny. They had as many mistresses as they could afford. The illegitimate male offspring would have generated countless undocumented surnames and carry these same y-DNA markers.

I can’t say that this is exactly William the Conqueror’s y-DNA markers. These values are a mode, the numbers that appear most frequently in the related R1b sample of 152 records. The results that I have found are based on my analysis of about 3,800 y-DNA samples and form a good correlation. New data in the future may change the results.

The techniques that I have used are similar to the ones used to identify Carthaigh (McCarthy King of Desmond), Niall of the Nine Hostages and Genghis Khan. I predict that as the DNA databases grow, more discoveries like this will be found. My next projects are to determine Rollo’s origin (see Exploring Rollo...) and Charlemagne’s haplotype.

60 comments:

Excellent and informative article. I have both autosomal results with Ancestry and FTDNA. My g g grandmother is a Clifford from Ireland. Do you have a site or group I can add myself to? Would love to be in the mix.

Hello, research of my lineage leads me to believe I am a descendant - not much different from markers posted. Reverse- engineered from a related vicar general of 1500's, found through deep research to be of a 1,000+ yr line of clerics. U4G6F ySearch

I have several documented lines back to these philandering kings, thanks to Gary Boyd Roberts. My paternal great grandmother is a Warren born in Yorkshire, and my father is R1b. Along these lineages are several of the names you listed: St. Clair/Sinkler, Osbern/Osborne, Beaumont, Spencer and Humphrey. However, my Dad passed away ten years ago and cannot donate any more DNA.

I have just compared the Y chart above with my deceased husband who is a good match with Sinclair as in the Sinclair DNA project. No one knows why. We have a brick wall with his Horttor ancestor b 1845. His maternal Canfield line as traced by the Canfield Family Association several years ago went back to William the Conqueror. Interesting article and one my children will be interested to follow. Beverly Horttor momdad.horttor@gmail.com

My husband, H David Horttor tested with SMGF, FTdna and 23andMeKit # for FTdna is F120270 23andMe is M193005

This is fascinating. I always was intrigued by the interplay between surnames and titles. We have English ancestors with surnames Patey, Boone, Croft, Pinckney, Johnson. Scots: Fraser. Irish: Lynch. There are a number of St. Clair /Sinkler surnames along the way. And some Montgomery surnames, too.

Interesting! I suggest you try Brian Boru, since 2014 is the 1000 year anniversary of his death. Sir Conor O'Brien would be the direct living descendant. Currently FamilyTree DNA is doing the O'Brien surname project which has almost 300 participants.

Hello, I am Dale C. Rice 1948 and a direct Descendnant of Perrott ap Rice 1600 who's family traces back to 30 AD. I tested out I-1 Haplogroup, origionating in Northern France and my 37 markers are 9 exact matches, 14 1 segment shorter, 9, 2 steps shorter , 1 marker 3 steps shorter and only 4 sites have segments of 1 lengthend segment that the reconstructed Y that you show above in your article....If interested you can see results of my test at Family DNA if you so wish...Kind Regards DC Rice 1948 Nebraska Rices

SINCLAIRSinclair Family of Caithness is most likely NOT directly related to William C. The Sinclair group sharing some 14 different haplotypes of dna do not relate to each other, The Caithness group,most likely to relate back to the Sinclairs of Roslin Scotland and the famous Rosslyn Chapel have the following dna results,testing done by Family Tree Dna,

I believe that the majority of participants in the Family Tree DNA Montgomery Surname DNA Project are J2 with an only slightly fewer number of participants being R1b1. There is one participant who is J2 with a strong paper trail connection to Hugh Montgomery, 1st Earl of Eglinton and from there, historical records provide evidence that the 1st Earl descends from Roger de Montgomerie, cousin of William the Conquerer. There is good reason for much debate on whether the blood line from Roger de Montgomerie runs J2 or R1b1, so I am curious how you settled on Montgomery's as R1b1.

I am in the U152 project on FTDNA which is a descendant of R1b. My cluster's (A:a:a:a: U152>YCA=19,22+dys447=27) common ancestor is 1,000-1,100 AD. http://www.familytreedna.com/public/R1b-U152/default.aspx?section=yresults Until we get a sample of Will's DNA an open mind is recommended!

I run the Sinclair / St. Clair / Sinceler DNA study. We've found 12 distinct lineages. One of those is mentioned in a comment above. They have the best chance of connecting to our Roslin family who built Roslin Chapel and castle.

Another of our branches, discovered this year, is called the Herdmanston Lineage. They were the first of our family to arrive in Scotland, 1162, on land given by the de Moreville family. Curiously, among their SNP matches are names like Mandeville. This got me quite interested and we've since ordered FTDNA's Big Y test on this lineage to look for more recent SNPs than their L11 / P310. If that match to de Mandeville remains tight, then we'll know an approximate date for a most recent common ancestor.

I ran your WC Modal against our study of over 200 members in several different ways:

First, working left to right. This produced a 31/37 match with our Glasgow Lineage (L21, L193). That immigrant came over in 1698. We've got some evidence that his line went back to Northumberland England before the 1500s. We're off on these particular markers from your WC Modal:Our DYS 456 - 570 = 17,16,19,17CDYa-b = 36, 37

Then, allowing for a mutation on DYS 390, which we've seen in our Caithness Lineage. I allowed for DYS390 to equal all options.I allowed for DYS458 to equal 16 & 17.DYS 389ii to equal all options.DYS439 equal all options.DYS 391 equal all options.DYS19 equal all options.With all of this, I still end up with the L21 group in our Sinclair / St. Clair DNA study. Very interesting.

A great next step in your research on this WC Modal would be to look for common SNPs. That would help get to the actual common ancestor. For instance, L193 is believed to have mutated between 800 and 1,000 years ago. I highly doubt you'd find it among all the surnames you've looked at but, based on your research, somewhere "upstream" of L193 there should be a common ancestor in the L21 groups.

Thank you for your comments. I am continuing to refine this work by moving from a 37 marker model to a 67 marker model. The preliminary SNP data has an L21 correlation. Once I have completed the analysis, the modal haplotype, in theory, would be that of Rollo. The next step would be to determine if Rollo was from Denmark or Norway.

My haplogroup is G or specifically G-Z726. I have no vested interest or bias in which haplogroup William the Conqueror belongs. Excellent question. It is important to be as impartial as possible while doing research.

I would like to see this same model used on the de Hauteville family. I don't think there is enough data to do it though. You need a bunch of people with the surnames Altaville, de Gesualdo, Geraci and maybe Tankerville, Tancarville, Chamberlain

Hi: Fascinating reading and I can see various surnames found in Percy history. I am either a Y descendant of William de Percy a cousin of WTC via Rollo or of Josceline de Louvaine a Y descendant of Charlemagne who married a Percy heiress C1150 which may be helpful. I am R1B-U152 tested at Leicester University by Dr Trudi King. Charles Percy

My family traces back to William Peveral according to family history, I thought nothing of it, until I did a DNA test, and the matches I have are all Pepper/Peppers etc. Our family motto is Courage Sans Peur, similar to Richard Sans Peur, and we are Z251+

I've tested my yDNA for 67 STR markers on FTDNA and am not too far from those markers listed. I've tested SNP's for L21>DF13>Z16500>Z17901+ aka R1b1a2a1a2c1n1 and someone with patrilineal ancestry from the Breton Marches also tested for Z17901+. While my two other closest matches on FTDNA for yDNA have North German ancestry. While another is a Pitts from America with ancestral patriline origin unknown. While they are Pitt(s) descended from the Norman Gervase de la Puette. As for my own surname Holt I don't match any other Holt's for yDNA on FTDNA. And there's an old family rumour that my great-grandfather Holt was born via a non paternity event.

Hello! Love the article. A little too technical for me though... so are you saying Rollo and William the Conqueor are from the L21 branch of R1b, then? I would have assumed from Denmark U106 would have been more likely. Does that mean most of those Anglo-Norman surnames Rollo descendants) in the study were L21? All the numbers in those markers confuse me. Thanks! :)

Hi, I just found out this unusual information yesterday. Sometimes when you can't find the direct line of someone you can find it by going backward or sideways. Through my Mother's line there are 29 unbroken male descendants from King Fornjot (Williams oldest Ancestor) all the way down to the Dutton line then a few females break the line up down to my Mother. While I do not know specifically the descent of William's living Male descendants it is probably easy enough to find male descendants of Peter Dutton 12th Lord Dutton's living today. Some should be carrying the DNA of William's direct Male Ancestor King Fornjot. This is a good place to start for you can trace Peter Dutton all the way to Fornjot who is William's oldest known ancestor.http://www.geni.com/people/Peter-Dutton-12th-Lord-of-Dutton/6000000000490954140?through=6000000001233379149Peter Dutton, 12th Lord of Dutton his father → Sir Edward de Dutton his father → Sir Thomas Dutton his father → Sir Hugh Dutton, 9th Lord of Dutton his father → Hugh de Dutton, 8th Lord of Dutton his father → Sir Thomas de Dutton, 7th Lord of Dutton his father → Sir Hugh de Dutton, 5th Lord of Dutton his father → Hugh de Dutton, 4th Lord of Dutton his father → Hugh de Dutton, 3rd Lord of Dutton his father → Hugh FItzodard de Dutton, 2nd Lord of Dutton his father → Odard, 1st Lord of Dutton his father → Ivo DE DUTTON, Viscount Cotentin his father → Niel II (III) de Saint-Sauveur, vicomte de Cotentin his father → Neil (I) II, viscount de Saint-Sauveur his father → Roger de Saint-Sauveur, vicomte du Cotentin his father → "Nigel" Neil I, vicomte de Saint-Sauveur his father → Richard I de Saint Sauveur Viscount of Contentin his father → Malahulc / Haldrick Eysteinsson his father → Eystein Ivarsson «the Noisy» Glumra his father → Ivar Halfdansson, Opplendingejarl his father → Halfdan "Gamle" Sveidasson his father → Sveidi Heytirsson, Norse King, c. 650 his father → Heytir Gorrsson, King of Kvenland his father → Gorr Thorasson, King of Kvenland his father → Thorri Snærsson, King of Kvenland his father → Snær Jokulsson, King of Kvenland his father → Frosti / Jøkull Karasson, king in Kvenland his father → Kari "Wind" Fornjotsson, King of Kvenland his father → King Fornjot "The Ancient Giant" of Kvenland By using tools like gedmatch one would probably find that Descendant's of Fornjot including William would have Icelandic, Norwegian and possibly Finnish, Scottish or Orkney as well as Swedish background. Heritage origins might place them in More Og Romsdal, a place some of these Descendants came from; Kvenland, William has lot's of descendants but even when you trace his Royal line it already starts to break when you get to Empress Matilda.

Just for fun I searched for a Male Dutton on FTDNA and found one, a Fourth Cousin which would put him in the right time frame for my Dutton line. Our match was on Chromosome #1 at a length of 10cm. This may or may not be relevant. So are all Dutton's descendants of King Fornjot? The pedigree says this is true but only if from the Noble Dutton line. However, depending on how one Dutton derived his DNA for he could just as easily be a descendant of High King Brian Boru (One of his 12th Grandfather's) a popular RM222 Haplogroup type as I found this Dutton to be. Is King Fornjot an Ancestor of William the Conqueror? Historical information says this is true. What Haplogroup would he belong to? Norwegian DNA groups may have the best answer based on locality. https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/norway/about/resultsHope this helps in your research.

I liked your article. It seems that I might not be apart of these super cluster families. My haplogroup is R-Z2396. I was told that very few kits will be positive for it. So I suspect that Z2396 will have no connection to William or Rollo. Z2396 is said to from Sweden? Here are my 1-37 dys markers.

I was born a Montgomery and have worked hard on our family tree. Documentation for the Montgomery's ends around 1845 and I made some tentative connections using advice from other genealogists and circumstantial evidence. However, that line should be J-M172 and our haplogroup turns out to be R-M269. I only tested for the first 12 but they are very close to William the Conq. Two markers are off by one. 13 24 14 10 11-14 12 12 12 13 13 30

According to my research William is my 21st GG via my paternal grandmother of the Bean (MacBean) Clan. I have fairly good confidence about that line.

I had always assumed that my line would go back to the 3 Rogers de Montgomerie who were closely associated with William the Conqueror and gained their lands and titles from their association with him and his conquests.

I am patiently waiting for DNA to bring out the secrets and not-so-secret secrets as this service gets more proficient.My family date back to John Warren born 1617 probably at Ashburton in Devon. I believe that his father was the celebrated [by most American Warrens] Christopher Warren. My DNA [from Marnhull in Dorset] appears to be R-M269 which is the same haplogroup recorded for William De Warren, General at Hastings and cousin to William the Conqueror. At this moment I claim only my forebear John b 1617 d 1698 but believe that my line goes back through Christopher Warren b 1585 [married Alice Webb] to Rollo the Danish Knight that terrorized France. If anyone can assist with the family of Christopher Warren of the visitations it would be nice. The work of Reverend Thomas Warren [History of the Warren Family] has the family wrong and I believe that the mix up with another Waren Family was caused by a late entry in the Visitations record. I truly think that DNA will provide answers, they hasve a thigh bone of the Conqueror and also bones from William De Warren and his wife Gundrada [daughter of the Conqueror] and of Matilda the Conqueror's wife, so why do they not take samples from the bones so that originators DNA can be shown?

Also, there is a huge controversy over the parentage of Gundrada, wife of William De Warren. William the Conqueror claimed her as Filae miea [my daughter] in charters and at her wedding to William De Warren. Gundrada's marble slab that covered her grave is identical to her mother in Normandy. The controversy was started by a Norman hating Ordericus Vitalis who at 70 years old did a history on the conqueror. Ordericus made so many errors in his history that one wonders how modern day historians could be taking him seriosly. Then again, British grudges are long held, hurry up DNA.

Hi, I had my brother (who is a Sinclair) DNA tested with FamilyTreeDNA (37 markers - I-M253). My family documents only go to the 1820's in Ontario, Canada. But I was told we were we descended from the Sinclair family in Exeter, New Hampshire, USA, who are suppose to be descended from William the Conqueror.WANDA SINCLAIRRexdale, Ontario]wanda_sinclair@hotmail.com

Don't know where I might stand in all this. My Ancestry DNA test show I'm mostly Scandinavian,English,Celt,etc. My surname is Bullen or Boleyn as cousin Anne would have it. Paternal grandmother is Bartlett. Maternal line is Ramsey, Van de veer,Phillips, Beale etc. They all emigrated to the colonies early to mid-17th century. Some say Jamestown but that includes native american if I run for office. Any suggestions to verify these connections. Thanks, Thomas A. Bullen, Esq.

Karen, I have a DNA match with a Kingham whom states the line is of de Mandeville outlaw Earl of Essex. Coincidentally I also have a Coman/ Comyn match. My Massey/ Mace line is related to le Goz or Hugh Lupus d' Avaranches whom gave 9 Lordships in Cheshire/ Chester to Hamo/ Hammond de Massey/ Mascy. The Norman Dukes all married Conteville/ Comyn/ de Burgh/ Burgos women. My Guillaume de La Ferte Mace married a Muriel de Conteville. Robert de Conteville a.k.a. de Mortain/ Mortagne was brother of Odo Bishop of Bayeux. (Conteville line) jdmassey73@gmail.com

Karen, I have a DNA match with a Kingham whom states the line is of de Mandeville outlaw Earl of Essex. Coincidentally I also have a Coman/ Comyn match. My Massey/ Mace line is related to le Goz or Hugh Lupus d' Avaranches whom gave 9 Lordships in Cheshire/ Chester to Hamo/ Hammond de Massey/ Mascy. The Norman Dukes all married Conteville/ Comyn/ de Burgh/ Burgos women. My Guillaume de La Ferte Mace married a Muriel de Conteville. Robert de Conteville a.k.a. de Mortain/ Mortagne was brother of Odo Bishop of Bayeux. (Conteville line) jdmassey73@gmail.com

I connect several times to WTC. Those ancient ancestors married into each other's families over and over and over again.By the way, does anyone have a good recommendation for learning to read DNA reports? Is there an online course that is really helpful?

I have six of those surnames in my YDNA test results with a good number of each Montgomery and Ramsay. But I belong to the group J2. I also share YDNA with the Rothchilds and the old Guggisberg family (distant) in Switzerland. It wouldn't be that far fetched that rather than I, J could be a likely candidate. My surname is Maddison and could be connected to the well know Maddison pedigree from Durham dating back to the 1100s.

Sir, your statement that showing DNA for William the conqueror is not easy is farcical. As I have commented to numerous people, DNA from the Conqueror or for that matter anybody before 1300ad requires DNA from the originator to show a relationship. Why then, do you not apply for DNA sample material from the conqueror, his wife and Gundrada , his daughter and stop making statements that are untenable to those who want to know, in other words, work for your money and stop acting ;like a heraldry house.

Hi - My maiden name is Gifford and my Dad had his DNA tested for the US Gifford DNA project. I am a novice about all of this but his 37 markers matched 29 of those you listed for William the Conqueror. His Kit No. on Family Tree DNA is 167189. His 37 markers are:

I have traced my family tree back to Thomas Gifford (1688-1743) but that is where I hit a brick wall. I had always been told as a child that the Giffords/Giffards came over from France with William the Conquerer but don't know if there is any actual connection to my actual family. I will try to keep an eye on your research as I find it all very fascinating. Best wishes, Susan Newson (nee Gifford)

I am a direct descendant of William Ambrose Gifford, the one who emigrated from England to Barnstable, Massachussets in the late 1600's. I come through his son Jonathan. I am very interested in confirming who his parents are. He is from Devon, England. I match WTC exactly or within one number on every one of the DNA markers so that's a very close relationshiop. Richard, may I use your article and add in DNA markers of Giffords as I find them for comparison. Great article! - Wayne G. Gifford Tucson, AZ (wayne.gifford@gmail.com)

28-29 generation WTC descendant here. I have one of each of the surnames connected with the DNA of WTC. The most firmly contrived genealogical surname tying me to the late king is Warren. Happy Hunting!