Steve Jobs Is Lying About Flashhttp://www.businessinsider.com/steve-jobs-is-lying-about-flash-2010-4/comments
en-usWed, 31 Dec 1969 19:00:00 -0500Mon, 19 Mar 2018 22:38:20 -0400Dan Rayburnhttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/4c13d3cf7f8b9a8f5a740800ashoeSat, 12 Jun 2010 14:37:03 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4c13d3cf7f8b9a8f5a740800
50%+ of all video played is on youtube, which does work with 264 on Apple. Most of the other 50% is Hulu which is blocked on all mobile devices even if they support flash anyway.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4c0eb9597f8b9a8c60210100KevinTue, 08 Jun 2010 17:42:49 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4c0eb9597f8b9a8c60210100
You really need to read up before you accuse Dan of being the dinosaur. Jobs is advocating a major step backward.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4c0eb6127f8b9a9d60130000KevinTue, 08 Jun 2010 17:28:50 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4c0eb6127f8b9a9d60130000
You paid for the MLB ap when flash-enabled browsers prevent that.
I know you don't value your money, but for those of us who don't need Steve's hand to walk us through the big scary internet, you're a rube.
You paid for something you could get for free.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4c0eb5a17f8b9ad95e250000KevinTue, 08 Jun 2010 17:26:57 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4c0eb5a17f8b9ad95e250000
Your average Mac user: Angry, uninformed, enamored with the Lord, our God, Steve Jobs.
He lied. It's not an opinion that he lied. None of the alternative formats he suggested are technologically superior to Flash.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4c0eb5587f8b9ad9400b0000KevinTue, 08 Jun 2010 17:25:44 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4c0eb5587f8b9ad9400b0000
Go to hulu. Have fun.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4c0eb5357f8b9a765f050000KevinTue, 08 Jun 2010 17:25:09 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4c0eb5357f8b9a765f050000
Dan, don't bother. These people clearly will believe and lap up happily whatever Steve Jobs tells them. Want to know what you like? Ask Steve. Want to know what exists in web development? Ask Steve.
Do not trespass against the power of the almighty Steve. Surrender yourself to his will and all will be made right.
These people have taken their ignorance of computer hardware and made it into a mantra. Why would they behave any differently when it comes to plug-ins?
Only that which pays homage to the glory of Steve, dictator of what we want, is worthy.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4c0eb47a7f8b9aed3fe70000KevinTue, 08 Jun 2010 17:22:02 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4c0eb47a7f8b9aed3fe70000
So by your standards, apple's terrible browsing capacity is fine, because a few years ago mobile-browsing was worse, in your opinion?
How does any of that makes Apple's assertion true? You really like to attack instead of defend.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4c0eb3ee7f8b9a015c490000KevinTue, 08 Jun 2010 17:19:41 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4c0eb3ee7f8b9a015c490000
Is MLB.com free?
Yes it is? Wow, cool.
Now how about the MLB app?
Aw, it's not?
Hm.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4c0eb2ec7f8b9ad73efc0100KevinTue, 08 Jun 2010 17:15:24 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4c0eb2ec7f8b9ad73efc0100
Android is already selling at a much faster pace than the iPhone did.
<a href="http://news.handhelditems.com/motorola-droid-sells-more-than-iphone/" target="_blank">http://news.handhelditems.com/motorola-droid-sells-more-than-iphone/</a>
<a href="http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2010/03/16/flurry-more-droid-devices-than-iphones-sold-in-first-74-days-on-the-market/" target="_blank">http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2010/03/16/flurry-more-droid-devices-than-iphones-sold-in-first-74-days-on-the-market/</a>http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4c0eaa1d7f8b9a2e521f0300KevinTue, 08 Jun 2010 16:37:49 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4c0eaa1d7f8b9a2e521f0300
And let's hear about the data that exists to support your ridiculous "most people" claim?
You're expecting us to believe that people like what you say they like.
Wait is that you, Steve? Please tell me what I like again! I need to know!http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4c01fd197f8b9a080e750000fred junestersSun, 30 May 2010 01:52:25 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4c01fd197f8b9a080e750000
spread the word. they want you to have to buy - even more beyond your 3G contract - all the shows, media, etc that you want to watch. that's why they don't support flash. wake up everyone - they sell the same shows in the apple store for $3/episode at the app store they is shown for free(commercial interuption) on hulu. don't buy this phone!!!!!
sincerely,
iphone ownerhttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bedbe9f7f8b9aa27e6c0100ShantiFri, 14 May 2010 17:20:30 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bedbe9f7f8b9aa27e6c0100
I am not in favor of flash nor againsts and if it dies it dies, but that said, Flash was "fine" up until Mr. Steve "god" Jobs said it wasn't. For all of those saying that HTML5 will replace Flash.... maybe it will, in about 50 years or so, BUT when (or should I say if?) HTML5 gets to the point Flash is right now meaning, ALL the things Flash can do (3D, Webcam control, Games, audio, database connections, etc, etc) Flash will probably be WAY ahead of that, Flash is not dying, not anytime soon, so you can all drool and masturbate at what Mr. Jobs says, but he is lying, there is no other way of putting it, the same way he lies about mac's "Just working"...
oh and for those that think that ADS will "magically" disappear if Flash dies.... really?? you REALLY think that? iAd comes to mind JUST for those crappy iPhones, HTML5 WILL bring new adshttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be2d1507f8b9a3746fb0200AfrowaveThu, 06 May 2010 10:25:20 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be2d1507f8b9a3746fb0200
Hi Dan, I read the failed mobile strategy piece you did. And I agree with it completely.
As for CDNs, the cost of creating a particular pipeline is not small. But it is the nature of a business at the cutting-edge. And that's why I said the disruption to CDNs is the painful part. they had invested in Flash. Apple as a delivery contoller has desided not to.
Think of it this way. Now that Apple have figured out as Google did for YouTube, its the servers and the cables that are the major cost for CDNs, their main CDN suppliers are in a small panic. These behemoths are building their own delivery networks and will soon begin leasing their networks to others effectively becoming CDNs proper. This to me is the issue.
That is why Apple and Google are chasing HTML5 to push their partular services. Look at how similar their strategies are. Their only real difference is Google main thing is search and Apple is iDevices. But that's their history, not their future in this area. Both are in Content encoding, in OS/HTML5 dev, CDN networks and delivery deveices. And now both are in Web/Mobile advertising.
Now independent developers and content creators do not need to care about the CDN's internal workings or financial health. Apple and Google are making it brain-dead. So the pipeline "ingest, encode/transcode, store, manage, protect, track, deliver, report" including "content protection, advertising and reporting". From a content creator point of view, "no problem". From a CDN's point of view" Oh wow".
So Google adopts Flash, that's their decsion hoping to up one on Apple. Apple "supports" open standards but not Flash.
The Flash Content developer needs to make a decision about their bread and butter. Adobe doen't want to lose them, so they ride on a Flash to iPod convertor. CS5 has no proper HTML5 tools.
As a user, "what delivery gives me the UX i want?" Andriod with Flash+HTML5, Apple HTML5-Flash? How much does the ecosystem (Chrome/HTC vs MacOSX/iPod/iPad) determine this?
This is where the battle is. We developers only need to figure that out or aim for both. If CDNs can't hack it, really, too bad.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be232747f8b9a652c170200GaryWed, 05 May 2010 23:07:32 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be232747f8b9a652c170200
Your numbers are from where? According to Verizon, they have sold 6 million Droids, so you're saying all the other Android phones combined equal less than 4 million? Again, I'd like to see your source as it is clearly incorrect.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be231017f8b9a95456c0400JakeyWed, 05 May 2010 23:01:21 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be231017f8b9a95456c0400
yet David Beckham's Galaxy jersey sold more than any Brazillian league jersey. Oh and you can watch tons more soccer with flash. I'll be doing so with my android 2.2 phone which you wont be able to do with the ipad.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be22e7d7f8b9a0b2f980200JakeWed, 05 May 2010 22:50:37 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be22e7d7f8b9a0b2f980200
that's interesting because Android is supporting flash and the youtube clips don't look that buggy nor is it buggy on my pc. wow, maybe it's apple's fault?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be22d907f8b9afe2e670200JakeWed, 05 May 2010 22:46:40 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be22d907f8b9afe2e670200
The Nokia n900 has flash and google android 2.2 will support flash, nice try but Jobs was exposed as a liar.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be22cb17f8b9a7f28cc0400JaKEYWed, 05 May 2010 22:42:56 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be22cb17f8b9a7f28cc0400
...And Android is gaining market share on Iphone and projected to sell more than the Iphone by 2011. Guess what, Android is open and allows Flash.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be22bc67f8b9a0c29230000JakeWed, 05 May 2010 22:39:02 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be22bc67f8b9a0c29230000
there is a nokia that runs flash and google android 2.2. will officially support flash. Nice try!http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bdf77bb7f8b9a0c719d0600Dan RayburnMon, 03 May 2010 21:26:18 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bdf77bb7f8b9a0c719d0600
Yeah, that usage of the "internet", NOT the work that's done on a PC. No one is replacing their PC with a mobile device for ALL of the work they do on a PC.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bde862f7f8b9a9f78ad0300JonMon, 03 May 2010 04:15:43 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bde862f7f8b9a9f78ad0300
> Apple's iPhone and iPad's are not going to replace the PC experience, ever.
BS, since 2005 the mobile usage of the internet has surpassed the 'fixed' usage in Japan, and the difference is growing ever since. Stating that such won't happen in the states (or Europe) is only displaying your naivete.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bdcbafe7f8b9a3465760000JoePSat, 01 May 2010 19:36:30 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bdcbafe7f8b9a3465760000
I think Business Insider is just trolling for hits.
Jobs definitely stretched credibility with a few of his claims, but this Rayburn guy seems not to have read Jobs' letter- either that, or he didn't understand it, or is purposely misrepresenting it. This is not about fanboyism- it's about understanding the material.
Unfortunately, with our pageview-centric web economy, you never know anymore whether to take a post like this seriously (and that would be a knock on Business Insider for having a non-savvy author) -- or -- discount the thing as a gambit for pageviews.
If it's a gambit for pageviews, it's working. As always.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bdc75cd7f8b9a8840f60200Cocoa ButterSat, 01 May 2010 14:41:16 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bdc75cd7f8b9a8840f60200
Steve Jobs is flat out lying about many things. If he believes that Adobe has now fully adopted Mac OS X with the release of CS5 (moving it onto the Cocoa platform) then Steve needs to look at Apple as the big failure. Finder, the core application in OS X, didn't use Cocoa until 8 months ago. What's worse, iTunes STILL does not use Cocoa. Adobe has beaten Apple to the punch in adopting Mac OS X. Tell me Steve, when will Apple finally adopt it's own operating system?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bdbd9c47f8b9a5551990700LiamSat, 01 May 2010 03:35:32 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bdbd9c47f8b9a5551990700
@Afrowave
Flash can/does suppport h.264.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bdbd4397f8b9ae460610200turleymullerSat, 01 May 2010 03:11:53 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bdbd4397f8b9ae460610200
So true.. Couldn't agree more.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bdbc5f57f8b9a2c7a210000LiamSat, 01 May 2010 02:11:01 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bdbc5f57f8b9a2c7a210000
@Taylor
I couldn't find the exact date of the Adobe withdrawl so I assume you are right. Nevertheless, they turned out to have been correct in their move. Besides, my understanding of the Apple's developer contract stipulated that only 3 languages can be used to originally write the application, so that excluded Adobe's CS5 immediately.
I personally don't like flash, but one has to acknowledge that it is HEAVILY used by design houses, and pretty much every media site is loaded with Flash. That IS alot of talent that Apple, who I had thought was very design oriented, has turned their back on.
BTW, I think Apple is worse than Microsoft if for no other reason than the cult that has developed around them. This cult (I use the word only somewhat lightly)hammer websites, like this one, when a bad word is said of Apple. That is true WEB POWER! :)
My hope is that Jobs will step down soon and let Apple continue on with a non-Microsoft/IBM agenda.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bdbc3ab7f8b9adb5e5e0200LiamSat, 01 May 2010 02:01:15 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bdbc3ab7f8b9adb5e5e0200
Perhaps they could. Adobe has a market value of around $17 billion, which is less than $40 billion, but how would papa Jobs look buying this company (assuming Microsoft, or someone else didn't attempt the same thing, AND if the purchase was even allowed)? Regardless, I'd love to see what would happen if they tried to buy Adobe.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bdb804c7f8b9a04567c0700ABFri, 30 Apr 2010 21:13:47 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bdb804c7f8b9a04567c0700
The security report that Jobs cites (http://eval.symantec.com/mktginfo/enterprise/white_papers/b-whitepaper_internet_security_threat_report_xv_04-2010.en-us.pdf) shows that Apple's Quicktime plugin had more a few more security issues than the Flash Player. Funny Jobs didn't mention that. And Safari, of course, had several times the amount. But Symantec are probably Adobe shills.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bdb68197f8b9a4553d20600Dan RayburnFri, 30 Apr 2010 19:30:33 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bdb68197f8b9a4553d20600
Hi Afrowave, people are so quick to talk about H.264 as if its a platform for creating video, but it's simply a codec. That's all it is. When it comes to content owners being able to make money from streaming video online, they are dealing with more than just encoding and playback.
They have to ingest, encode/transcode, store, manage, protect, track, deliver, report etc... there is an entire video ecosystem here that ties into content protection, advertising and reporting and H.264 does not solve that. To me, that's the real problem.
And for all the people who want to keep leaving comments telling me that Adobe has been late to the game in the mobile market, I know. I agree and a week ago I wrote a post just on that topic entitled:
The Underlying Story Behind Adobe’s Failed Mobile Strategy
http://blog.streamingmedia.com/the_business_of_online_vi/2010/04/the-underlying-story-behind-adobes-failed-mobile-strategy.htmlhttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bdb5bf17f8b9af251180400MacSmileyFri, 30 Apr 2010 18:38:41 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bdb5bf17f8b9af251180400
It's Apple's device. It can run or not run anything it chooses.
Meanwhile, I can't even begin to tell you how many Mac users already BLOCK Flash VOLUNTARILY. If Apple allowed Flash on the iPhone, the first thing I would do is install a Flash-blocker, just like I do on my Mac.
ClickToFlash does more than just block Flash, by the way. It allows me to pull H.264 video from YouTube and watch them with QuickTime. 100 times better than Flash video.
BTW, the W3C issued guidelines years ago that Flash not be used for the basic infrastructure of websites. It's about time someone started listening to them in this regard anyway.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bdb2fd47f8b9a122d5d0000realitybitesFri, 30 Apr 2010 15:30:28 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bdb2fd47f8b9a122d5d0000
Jack,
I'm sure you're a nice guy but next time, before you speak out, you should be in the industry you're speaking about so you actually know a little something about what you're talking about.
"But it gets worse: Flash is now up and running fine on the latest Android devices (look at the HTC Droid Incredible)...a platform which is already gobbling up market share faster than the iPhone ever did."
Since 10/2008: 19 months: Android phones sold to date: 8,450,420 - 444,758/month
Since 6/2007: 34 months: iPhones sold to date: 64,000.000 - 1.882 million/month
Of course this does not take into account the number of iPad's and iPod Touches sold to date either.
That number is close to 25m, if I counted them...wow.
I guess you feel a little silly now saying that Android is gobbling up market share faster than the iPhone ever did.
I mean you are wrong by a factor of 400%.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bdb17877f8b9a1e14c10900realitybitesFri, 30 Apr 2010 13:46:41 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bdb17877f8b9a1e14c10900
Dan,
You may not know this but soccer in Brazil rises to the level of a religion and having support for H264 probably insures the content provider that he will reach a larger target audience.
By way of comparison, in the US, MLS has less viewers for all of their games on a single day combined then the Corinthians do, they are one team.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bdb15ca7f8b9add39e80200realitybitesFri, 30 Apr 2010 13:39:22 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bdb15ca7f8b9add39e80200
Dan,
You are asking me to comment on business decisions made by a number of different companies for different reasons, I have no idea why these decisions are made, they are not on the technical merits of Flash vs H264 though. The one thing I do know is, you have no idea either.
I work for one of them, actually a very large one of them and we use Mac's to create content and then stream it out to whomever has Flash. Interestingly enough the CEO can't even view the content as he has no Flash on his iPhone, go figure.
A company that chooses to ignore the 75m existing iPhone/iPad/iPod users w/o Flash doesn't sound too smart to me, it only gets worse when you factor in the lack of real Flash on any other smartphone and the tens of millions of them out there.
As a user of smartphones, in my experience, I have never had a moment where the lack of Flash caused me more than a second's delay in moving onto a site with better support for the estimated 150m other Flashless users out there. If I'm looking for information about a technology or product and their website only has Flash video to inform about their goods or services, I move on to someone who doesn't.
Really, In my opinion, your opinions are just a little out of step with how the industry is moving leading me to keep thinking that you're not in the industry, you're just another hack blogger that writes about a business he has no stake in.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bdb10927f8b9a0c39830200AfrowaveFri, 30 Apr 2010 13:17:06 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bdb10927f8b9a0c39830200
Hi Dan,
You are a brave man. I follow your articles through Streaming Media and I give you all the props on being at the cutting edge of CDNs and video streaming business.
However just as @Lihp said, the issues "will ultimately be decided by the market, consumers, and developers, so why beat this to death in the comments." The question is, what side will you be on?
I have coding Flash since Flash 4 (not too long ago) and I remember the excitement of Flash 5, and its battle with SVG especially with the "new" XHTML. And latest was the transition of ActionScript from AS 2.0 to ECMA based AS 3.0 just like JavaScript. For 2D animation, Flash 9 became the largest platform for cartoons on TV and Web. Sadly Toon Boom has taken over tha TV mantle and the battle is for the Web.
BUT I heve worked on a Mac since OS 7.6 actually, doing print. Most don't remember the Return of the King of Apple - Steve Jobs. Steve previously had naively given his company to some "suits" who threw him out and almost killed Apple. Steve came back, with NeXT and the iDevices were born with the iMac. There is no CEO who has led a company from the front like Steve, hate or love him, he is the best (CEO of the Last Decade).
I hope you get that I am a fanboy of Flash and Apple. And for me its about business, just as it is for you. Here in Africa, the iPhone is already doing ~ 20% of mobile ad impressions. Did I say IN AFRICA! From where I am standing, come Fall this year, the iPad leading tablets becoming the Next School Computer, and from there it will be about Joojoo and Andriod. iPad 2.0 is what we are really waiting for. I assure you, in the next 5 years, we will be delivering video to the iDevices, and our choice is whether we run into the future or we be dragged there kicking and screaming.
The CDN market has just about started making money, then Steve comes in and disrupts it again. Since mobile users a 6 times more likely to pay for content that web users (Admob, Jan 2010), I guess Steve knows that the best returns are through mobile devices (iTunes, AppStore, anyone?). And the fact that Flash lite for mobile never took off, let alone Flash, makes Steve is painfully right about Adobe's attitude and potentially their future.
I have moved to HTML 5, CSS2 / 3 and JavaScript. I encode my own videos before I put them up on CDNs. FLV is inferior compared to H264 - quality to file size. What I need is tools that make me output beautiful stuff like Flash either in vector or video. Its a matter of time, someone will produce them, God forbid if its Apple by making Xcode become a default install with every Mac.
Apple sells devices. Adobe sells software. Print is being replaced by Web as the mainstream information medium. Apple is poised to take over the iSpace. Adobe needs to get serious.
Dan, I understand, but move on. Its a H264 video future with Ogg and On2 as options. Its not about Apple and Adobe.
.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bdb0d657f8b9a8a46be0500Timothy BowmanFri, 30 Apr 2010 13:03:33 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bdb0d657f8b9a8a46be0500
"For all the growth of the mobile space in the U.S., how much of that content consumed on a mobile device is video? Very little"
this is flat out wrong. according to Cisco, 51% of all mobile data traffic is video, which will grow to 66% by 2013http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bdaf76b7f8b9a6a43b30200derekcfoleyFri, 30 Apr 2010 11:29:46 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bdaf76b7f8b9a6a43b30200
Dan's comment is very true.
One of the sheer joys about building a Flash application is that it will run on any OS, device or platform - and Adobe have been pretty good at making sure all platforms have a compatible Flash Player or in the case of mobile, a cut down version like Flash Lite.
That was one of the things that attracted me to Flash Developent rather than .Net or other technologies - a true "one to many" approach. Not to mention its pure mastery of multimedia in all shapes and forms means its a killer app.
With Flash Player support it quite simply means one developer or team of developers can focus on making a nice app without having to re-invent the wheel for other platforms (a costly process).
Apple is a dictatorship. Viva le revolution!http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bdae8ee7f8b9a1b33480000SteveFri, 30 Apr 2010 10:27:57 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bdae8ee7f8b9a1b33480000
Well, that was just a dumb comment. There are tens of thousands of free apps. The apps can be monetized through advertising, just like MLB.com. Duh.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bdae8b07f8b9a4841810000Dan RayburnFri, 30 Apr 2010 10:26:55 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bdae8b07f8b9a4841810000
That's because most iPhone users are not buying an iPhone to play videos, they are buying it to make calls. Consumers don't expect to get much in the way of a video experience on a phone.
But the iPad, with its big screen, with Jobs talking about it as a great device for video, consumers do care when they can't get videos from many of their popular sites.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bdadb6f7f8b9aa0306f0500Mat MorrisonFri, 30 Apr 2010 09:30:22 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bdadb6f7f8b9aa0306f0500
Do you really mean that, or are you just trying to invoke Godwin's Law? I may be wrong about this, but if it's the latter, I believe you need to call a fellow commenter a Nazi. I don't think that you can simply call just <em>anyone</em> a Nazi. I could be wrong. The wording is very loose.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bdad9867f8b9afe30c40000Ian BetteridgeFri, 30 Apr 2010 09:22:14 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bdad9867f8b9afe30c40000
"Anyone who uses an iPad can't get video from the websites of NFL.com, MLB.com, Petfinder.org, Amazon.com and many other really popular websites"
Which add up to precisely what proportion of "video on the web"?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bdad7b87f8b9a023f9f0000turleymullerFri, 30 Apr 2010 09:14:31 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bdad7b87f8b9a023f9f0000
Dan- I think it may be time you consider folding your cards on this flash argument... MSFT plans to move on too.
The only point you seem to make is that flash is ubiquitous with regards to web video.Also, you claim deciding not to support flash on the consumption side shafts users. The counter argument is that the producers of content are to blame for not offering flash-alternative. But you say that's unreasonable because that would require changing the whole web, including horsefishes.com wnba.com, etc.. Oh and Amazon too, which btw nobody even notices video because the damn site is so cluttered.
That all will change... And it's starting to happen. MSFT quote--
Dean Hachamovitch- General Manager, Internet Explorer
"There’s been a lot of posting about video and video formats on the web recently. This is a good opportunity to talk about Microsoft’s point of view.The future of the web is HTML5. Microsoft is deeply engaged in the HTML5 process with the W3C. HTML5 will be very important in advancing rich, interactive web applications and site design. The HTML5 specification describes video support without specifying a particular video format. We think H.264 is an excellent format.
In its HTML5 support, IE9 will support playback of H.264 video only."
Ouch... I guess zippers.com better start preparing to make the switch.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bdacf777f8b9a323b850c00LihpFri, 30 Apr 2010 08:39:19 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bdacf777f8b9a323b850c00
The author needs to be clear in what point that he is trying to make. As the article states, he is trying to make the point that Steve Jobs is lying and misrepresenting the truth for alternative, business-minded purposes, instead of focusing on a technology-driven philosophical argument about Flash vs. iPhone, etc., which will ultimately be decided by the market, consumers, and developers, so why beat this to death in the comments.
Perhaps the author is trying to point out the character of the man, similar to a politician such as Bill Clinton in the Lewinsky scandal. If so, it is evidently clear that Steve Jobs is manipulating the truth for business advantage to gain favorable opinion. How do you think Apple can get people to pay premium markups for average hardware? With Apple's crackdowns on early leaks, and how its young employees at its stores are taught the same snake-oil sales tactics to present Apple-only or uncool illusions, the question possibly being phrased is "Steve Jobs trustworthy and looking out for your best interests?".
First of all, Steve Jobs is not your preacher or your mother. His job is to bring in the most business for his company as possible, whether he tells the truth or is unscrupulous in dealing with his partners, customers, and employees. He holds tremendous power in that it is his closed ecosystem, and can change the rules at any time for any reason, but leverages the benefits brought to participants against how far he can push the envelope.
Perhaps this posting, as with the Gizmodo intentional disrupting of the traditional iPhone secrecy unveiling, reflects the growing frustration about the power, control, and morality/disrespectfulness of Steve Jobs' actions, and any sickening referrals to Steve Jobs as a savior or great man from the zombie Apple fanboy base or invested parties, such as employees, shareholders, etc.. They perpetrate and add to the lie, "magical illusion", though much less so than the total BULLSHxx "Don't do evil" from Google, a la China censorship. Who's the EVIL party, when your selling people out (Buzz e-mail private contacts), competing / threatening partners (Motorola, HTC, wireless companies), etc.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bdacb5f7f8b9aa23c770400D9Fri, 30 Apr 2010 08:21:50 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bdacb5f7f8b9aa23c770400
To which Apple could buy Adobe out in a second and be done with that irritation once & for all. And then, where would Flash be?
Adobe and the likes better be careful in tossing stones at this giant w/ 40+ billion cash reserves.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bdacb237f8b9ad05f800c00Argus EyeFri, 30 Apr 2010 08:20:51 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bdacb237f8b9ad05f800c00
PC Dan-boy made no real substative points. The original post was a hysterical rant with hardly any substance to it. Go drink your beer and beat your wife.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bdaca947f8b9a962dc20600D9Fri, 30 Apr 2010 08:18:28 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bdaca947f8b9a962dc20600
Dude, Flash is a closed ecosystem. If Adobe decides to shutdown Flash tomorrow, that ends that!
Just ask those of us who have been trying to get Freehand, part of Adobe's Macromedia buyout, to be released to the public so we can continue to develop the program for future use...no can do thanks to Adobe. They have it on ice and will not allow it to developed by the tech community because it would threaten Illustrator sales.
Flash is very closed, widely used, but definitely closed.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bdac9077f8b9a093d690000D9Fri, 30 Apr 2010 08:11:50 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bdac9077f8b9a093d690000
But you purchased them, nonetheless. That's my point, that despite Adobe's efforts and the likes of articles such as these, the public really has no concern for Flash, one way or the other. "I'd like to see the video or play the game, but if not, whatever."
I certainly, and the iPhone sales numbers deem likewise, never gave 2 seconds when buying an iPhone as to whether it could play Flash. Flash sites/ads/games are one aspect (media) of one component (web browser) of a device with dozens of other features (phone, music, video, internet, search, camera, email, web, messaging, etc.).
This issue is nothing more than a man-made mole hill!
/http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bdab99c7f8b9ad05f3a0400TwitexterFri, 30 Apr 2010 07:06:04 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bdab99c7f8b9ad05f3a0400
I really like reading SAI, but what were you thinking when you let this ignorant ("famous" Dan R.) write about anything?
He doesn't even deserve an answer.....
Bah...!http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bda87867f8b9a0024ff0500AlfieFri, 30 Apr 2010 03:32:22 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bda87867f8b9a0024ff0500
Being creative is good but thinking that only I can be creative and others are forbidden to be creative and smart is no the right thinking.
The Nazis were intelligent, smart and creative, but their intention is what was not good.
Flash is a fast evolving platform. Its people who decide if they want to use flash or not. If flash is bad people will stop using it just like IE.
If apple don't support flash its understood, But actively denying the Adobes effort to include flash in iphone and ipad is EVIL.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bda86067f8b9a83312f0500TaylorFri, 30 Apr 2010 03:25:58 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bda86067f8b9a83312f0500
In a way, Adobe threw in the towel by choosing to drop all plans for their iphone packager over a week ago - due to previous apple actions. The have very smartly chosen to focus on the platforms they can work with, namely android.
Steve Jobs letter was about a week too late. The flash community has moved on. Thats a lot of creative talent to brush off in favor of your closed ecosystem (check out the thefwa.com for an example).
Apple is now Microsoft circa 1996.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bda84e87f8b9a0e24f20400JeffFri, 30 Apr 2010 03:21:11 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bda84e87f8b9a0e24f20400
Nice piece Dan. Sorry to see the comments overwhelmed with misinformation.
Personally, for all the money I pay for my Apple products, I'd love the choice of picking and choosing what I can and can't do in my mobile browser.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bda82787f8b9a83319e0300LiamFri, 30 Apr 2010 03:10:48 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bda82787f8b9a83319e0300
If I were Adobe, I would say, "Fine Steve. You don't want us, we'll make our next CS Windows only. Sure we were a major factor in helping Mac achieve some mind share early on, but you've decided you want more control, so we'll part ways and see what the designers prefer: a Reynold's wrapped notebook running a cotton candy colored desktop, or a bland Windows that will run Photoshop."
Best of luck Apple. You are really making friends and influencing people.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bda689d7f8b9aad3f8f0400PierreFri, 30 Apr 2010 01:20:29 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bda689d7f8b9aad3f8f0400
@ CAT
You clearly have none of your facts straight.
"they make no income on deployment of Flashplayer and/or Flash dev tools"
Are you serious? Adobe's makes millions selling flash-based dev tools. Try going to their website and seeing what their products are.
"Also, Flash runs across all other platforms (including Mac OSX). Iphone/ ipad apps only run on iPhone OS."
Umm, so. This is an argument? Verizon apps only run on verizon phones with java. Nokia apps on symbian etc. Even android apps only run on android executables compiled for the target CPU; this turns out to be a pain for developers because they have to create multiple executables for each vendor phone. So much for open source OSs. Jobs' point was that HTML5, H.264, javascript, css, and the like are the true cross-platform technologies because they are defacto cross-platform and have dozens of open source implementations to start with and the features and definitions are designed and agreed upon by committee. Not ivory tower Adobe (or Apple) architects.
"He specifically calls out H.264 video support. Flash currently supports this, however, it requires the “publisher/creater [sic]” to buy and use technology called Video Codecs to produce video in the format.
You are joking right? Jane you ignorant slut: can you at least check wikipedia for h.264 to understand a modicum of the history behind this technology. It is free, international standardized organization based technology, and there are dozens of open source codecs out there for decoding. Apple's own quicktime format was adopted by the ISO and the MPEG group as the container format. Adobe vigorously tried to get their format as the standard but it was deemed technically inferior on many grounds. Thus, MPEG-4 (really apple quicktime was born).
" No cameras support either format natively"
Try JVC, Canon, Panasonic, Sony, and all kinds of other vendors. Not to mention blu-ray DVDs. AVCHD is h.264 (and hence MPEG-4). This is the new consumer standard format that has superseded DV. Have you ever heard of google? did you ever think to search to see if your statements have any bearing on reality before opening your mouth and inserting your foot?!
"Blue Tooth is probably the biggest battery hog out there "
Search the web for flash and battery life and you will find ONE test that says it ain't that bad; everything else confirms it. Or just try playing a flash game on any laptop you want, placing it on your bare lap and see how long you can go without burning your thighs and hearing the high-pitched din of the laptop fan. Oh and unplug your power adapter.
“third party layer of software come between the platform and the developer ultimately results in sub-standard apps” – Like a browser?
Dude, you are such an ignoramus. Browsers are compiled code that runs ON the platform. There is nothing between the platform and the browser. HTML, javascript, and css are not compiled languages and they don't require dedicated development or proprietary runtime environments. With these open technologies you can develop entire sites of serious sophistication in notepad alone. I know people who do this daily and insist on using notepad or vi. The same can't be said about any adobe technology (well maybe postscript). That is Jobs' point. The runtime is controlled by adobe.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bda60767f8b9a131f900600JackFri, 30 Apr 2010 00:45:42 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bda60767f8b9a131f900600
Flash may suck in many ways, but the joke is on Jobs this time.
The writer is correct, in that it is everywhere on the Internet, and a lot of people miss it on the iPhone. But it gets worse: Flash is now up and running fine on the latest Android devices (look at the HTC Droid Incredible)...a platform which is already gobbling up market share faster than the iPhone ever did.
Regardless though, here's hoping that with Google opening up VP8, the HTML5 video tag holdup & gridlock will finally end, and we will finally see a good replacement for Flash video (face it, Ogg Theora wasn't as good of quality, and H.264 is a horrible proprietary nightmare from hell waiting to happen, with exorbitant up-the-@ss fees on anyone who runs a website hosting anything more than a few videos.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bda5bbc7f8b9a5a1f9c0300NixtrFri, 30 Apr 2010 00:25:31 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bda5bbc7f8b9a5a1f9c0300
If Steve Jobs can't fire you, you do not get to monkey with his products by making him dependent on your updates.
Sorry Adobe, since you can't be fired, you are being shown the door. Maybe the 100 million mobile Apple products will not affect your bottom line. I don't think I will buy Adobe stock, however.
To say that Jobs is lying is essentially making the same assumption he did, so by default it is the same presumptive logic.
Neither of you can determine how much video I am missing, only I can. I am not surprised that Jobs went overboard with an assumption about how much video "I" am missing, because that is his nature, to sell it like a car salesman.
But his argument is not fooling me, I agreed with his conclusions before he tried to tell me what I wasn't missing.
I own Adobe stuff and have run it on both platforms. Mac has suffered for a long time.
Even though he talks out his *ss sometimes, he is right to change the game. There will be crybabys galore, but they will all cry themselves out and be forced to change to his game, cause he is actually correct about getting the old flash protocol out of mobile, at least. It has no place on mobile, since it was built for PC's. Let's give mobile a fresh start, and if you want to keep the old Flash stuff for PC's, well good luck with that.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bda527c7f8b9aa639c60000Frank CastleThu, 29 Apr 2010 23:46:04 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bda527c7f8b9aa639c60000
I guess no one reads seekingalpha as I've seen Dan's posts there. Anyways ..
Who cares .. the Apple faithful continue to just cheerlead and think everything is wonderful. Someone above actually commented that the mobile market matters more. Umm yeah it's HOT right now but the PC market is in the billions of screen realm.
I also get the amusement from all the "security" comments. Did I miss the memo on how HTML 5 or 264 are anymore secure? Does anyone actually think as market share of devices using these formats expands all the stuff you hate will follow (and with no controls due to being "open". Not much logic here.
Flash games, elearning and other uses will still continue. Did I miss a mass exodus of people using Flash as a development platform? Obviously not many people actually do that for a living. The apple faithful are so wrapped up in the F'n stock price once it drops there may be mass sucides. Considering the hate they spew this blog might turn around and have some construction opinions for a change.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bda4d957f8b9a321ec80000oklThu, 29 Apr 2010 23:25:09 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bda4d957f8b9a321ec80000
Compared to the chair I'm sitting on, this is a lie. Sorry man that's a fact, call it "agressive marketing", but it's still al lie.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bda4d057f8b9a82295d0c00Jeffrey LuThu, 29 Apr 2010 23:22:45 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bda4d057f8b9a82295d0c00
Apple is missing out on a big audience as well. Anybody who wants to see flash videos.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bda4c3c7f8b9a4f29b00c00oklThu, 29 Apr 2010 23:19:24 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bda4c3c7f8b9a4f29b00c00
Steve Jobs lies, please get infromed, don't trust this letter. He abuse of the fact that most of his users are not expert of the field. I'm telling you, he is breaking some GNU license, talking about webkit, and he could be sued. Apple lies, or do marketing, if you want to use a modern word. And i'm in the IT sice 20 years...http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bda29927f8b9adc25f90000mattyuThu, 29 Apr 2010 20:51:29 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bda29927f8b9adc25f90000
Thank you, well said.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bda1b037f8b9a2017840a00Dan RayburnThu, 29 Apr 2010 19:49:22 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bda1b037f8b9a2017840a00
Yes, this is not news. I have blogged before that none of our video are in H.264 on StreamingMedia.com as we use Brigthcove and at the time we encoded most of our videos in Brightcove, they did not support H.264. Now they do. But for now, I do not plan to re-encode all of the content as I don't care about missing out on traffic from iPads or iPhones.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bda147f7f8b9adc16ca0100dennisThu, 29 Apr 2010 19:21:35 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bda147f7f8b9adc16ca0100
Boy you guys are certainly beating this horse to death.
Tabloid news trash worthy of CNN, MSNBC and the National Enquirer!
Pet finder org? Never heard of you and will never use you. lolhttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bda11fb7f8b9add11b70500Steve WThu, 29 Apr 2010 19:10:51 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bda11fb7f8b9add11b70500
Truth!
Steve Jobs was being charitable to Adobe when he mentioned the ten years it took them to adopt Cocoa. Don't forget that NeXTSTEP came out 10 years before that, and Adobe NEVER migrated to the NeXT platform.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bda0e1c7f8b9aab22510600Dan RayburnThu, 29 Apr 2010 18:54:19 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bda0e1c7f8b9aab22510600
Good question. But remember that YouTube is a bad example because they did a deal with Apple many years ago so that YouTube videos would work on Apple TV. That was the driving force behind it originally. Also, not all YouTube videos work on the iPhone as not all H.264 videos will play on Apple devices.
Why haven't sites like Hulu, MTV, NHL, NFL, Nascar, Amazon, Zappos, Engadget etc. followed suit like YouTube has? That's something only they can answer. Either it's too much of a hassle for them, they are working on it and have not announced it yet, or they don't care about the mobile platform, specifically when it comes to viewing videos.
As for the touch based interface, as a developer pointed out on another blog, here are those answers:
STEVE: Flash was designed for PCs using mice, not for touch screens using fingers…”
Incorrect. The whole reason Flash Player has continued to stay ahead of the curve is because Macromedia/Adobe innovates it. There are gesture & touch API’s in the Flash Player; I and many others have used them for the iPhone resulting in a 100+ apps on the App Store.
STEVE: “For example, many Flash websites rely on “rollovers”, which pop up menus or other elements when the mouse arrow hovers over a specific spot.”
Incorrect. This was already discounted 2 months ago by Mike Chambers. Additionally, I tested both MouseEvent.CLICK, MouseEvent.MOUSE_DOWN, and MouseEvent.ROLL_OVER, and all 3 worked just fine on my iPhone. Additionally, I’ve seen video of a Nexus One using the native Flash Player 10.1 that plays a Flex website I made just fine with no code changes to support touch.
STEVE: “Apple’s revolutionary multi-touch interface doesn’t use a mouse, and there is no concept of a rollover.”
Incorrect. There are roll over states for buttons on the iPhone/iPad because you can click/touch on something, which shows the roll over state, but then drag off to not trigger the up, thus canceling your button click if you didn’t meant to touch something. Works the exact same way as a mouse does.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bda0dd17f8b9a3a16320000leaThu, 29 Apr 2010 18:53:05 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bda0dd17f8b9a3a16320000
how did i know that i would get to read a bunch of pissed off apple fan boy comments here? =)
flash or no flash, i still want nothing apple.
ps, i dont subscribe to comment replies.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bda0c2f7f8b9a5c15f70300RudyThu, 29 Apr 2010 18:46:07 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bda0c2f7f8b9a5c15f70300
Good post, Dan, though with some of the comments you have to wonder whether it was worth your time! There were many more problems with Job's whiny, defensive (and offensive) post then those you highlighted. Alas no point in pointing them out to this political crowd.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bda0bbb7f8b9a0015700500Steve WThu, 29 Apr 2010 18:44:11 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bda0bbb7f8b9a0015700500
Truth!
The fact that the MLB App works on the iPhone PROVES that MLB.com COULD work on the iPhone if MLB cared. MLB doesn't care, so why should Apple?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bda0b737f8b9a150bbb0900Dan RayburnThu, 29 Apr 2010 18:42:58 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bda0b737f8b9a150bbb0900
You like soccer? Well don't get an iPad then because the videos on Major League Soccer's website (www.mlsnet.com) are not supported on Apple devices. Tells you to get the Flash player.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bda0ab87f8b9a7615f80100Dan RayburnThu, 29 Apr 2010 18:39:51 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bda0ab87f8b9a7615f80100
Can you read? I've been responding to comments since the very first one came in.
And no, Adobe is NOT one of StreamingMedia.com's biggest sponsors. If Adobe went out of business tomorrow, that would not put StreamingMedia.com out of business either. We are not in the video business so if Flash video went away, it would not impact our revenue, we don't sell any video content or advertise within any video content. You don't even know what our business is.
We make money by putting on trade shows, publishing a magazine, selling ad space and doing audio webinars.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bda09c67f8b9a6215fd0100Dan RayburnThu, 29 Apr 2010 18:35:50 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bda09c67f8b9a6215fd0100
Here is a fact.
Steve Jobs says iPhone/iPad users "aren't missing much video".
Well I'd like to know why he seems to think that Apple users don't go to sites like Hulu, MTV, NHL, NFL, Nascar, Amazon, Zappos, Engadget etc. as all of those sites have, so far, decided not to make their videos available on Apple devices.
Argue with that.
Many keep commenting that content owners will move to make their video available since there are so many iPhones in the market and it's too big of a market opportunity to miss. Ok, then why haven't all of these major sites done it yet? The iPhone didn't come out last year.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bda08a57f8b9a5a152b0100Dan RayburnThu, 29 Apr 2010 18:30:55 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bda08a57f8b9a5a152b0100
Yes, I had one specially installed into my MacBook Pro.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bda07227f8b9a92111c0000Dan RayburnThu, 29 Apr 2010 18:24:34 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bda07227f8b9a92111c0000
Ever hear of Hulu.com? Amazon.com? Zappos.com? NFL.com? ConsumerReports.org? Engadget.com? Nascar.com? MTV.com? NHL.com?
None of those sites work today. Now maybe they will in the future, but for Jobs to say that today, "iPhone, iPod and iPad users aren’t missing much video" is a flat out lie.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bda028e7f8b9a6014e40100Dan RayburnThu, 29 Apr 2010 18:05:01 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bda028e7f8b9a6014e40100
I disagree. Because Apple forces companies to make apps, since Apple does not allow plugins, MLB can't give away something that they had to spend money on to make. They could, but I would not expect them to.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bda01f57f8b9ad80bfd0000Dan RayburnThu, 29 Apr 2010 18:02:29 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bda01f57f8b9ad80bfd0000
So you're not arguing with me that it does not work, you're just saying I should not be pointing that out to anyone. Sure, lots of logic there.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bda016d7f8b9a6c14c00000DonThu, 29 Apr 2010 18:00:11 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bda016d7f8b9a6c14c00000
As Jobs pointed out (and Mr. Rayburn selectively ignored), Adobe has been achingly slow to support modern developments. There is currently NO full version of Flash that works on any mobile device. The versions available are incredibly slow and do not support a great deal of the videos that Flash for computers does support. The latest version of the Adobe CS suite is the first one to fully support Mac OS X even though OS X has been available for ten freakin' years.
Flash is supposedly cross platform. That means it will NOT support the latest features of Windows, Linux, or Mac OS X or mobile OSes. The computer OSes can work around the limitations of Flash's "support the minimum" philosophy, but for mobiles to do so will leave them years behind in innovation.
If Adobe wanted to support interoperable standards, instead of insisting that OSes support their minimal, sink-to-the-bottom standards, I'd be on their side. If they change and decide to support standards rather than trying to be a dated standard, I'd give them full support.
But as long as they want to keep the internet in the 20th century, I have to stick to Apple's position.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9fd747f8b9ab413ae0100SlothropReduxThu, 29 Apr 2010 17:43:16 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9fd747f8b9ab413ae0100
Mr. Rayburn,
One very interesting point that Mr. Jobs made has to do with the ability of Flash to effectively deal with a touch-based interface. You don't mention that part of his memo. Do you have any specific thoughts on that?
It is interesting to consider why YouTube (by far the biggest video site out there) has bothered to allow non-Flash-based video while other sites haven't. Is it a time/effort thing? Even MLB.COM obviously has non-flash versions of their video content (which they show in their successful apps). So the decisions being made by companies other than Apple really figure in to all this.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9fd417f8b9a6b13e10300SpenThu, 29 Apr 2010 17:42:25 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9fd417f8b9a6b13e10300
My feeling is that arguing your "points" is simply not worth the effort since you did not credibly rebut most, if any, of Steve's point. You start out by calling someone a liar, and weakly pose some numbers that might be interpreted in Adobe's favor, if viewed from the right angle, but you fail to refute any of the actual technical points.
For example: Where is Flash (not Flash Lite) for my Nokia(Symbian) phone? Can I watch MLB from that?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9f9247f8b9a6f20400500Jon TThu, 29 Apr 2010 17:24:51 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9f9247f8b9a6f20400500
Hooray dan for helping to make it an Apple 10 and Adobe Flash Nil result.
Flash is about misrepresentation, spin, rant and general bad practise.
Well done Jobs for helping to clean the world of garbage.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9f50f7f8b9a0f20050300yoshiThu, 29 Apr 2010 17:07:27 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9f50f7f8b9a0f20050300
Please show me a device or computer that can display and decode 100% of everything on the internet.
There is no such beast. There will always be some OS/browser/platform that is not able to play or render something that another on can.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9f3a27f8b9aeb780b0b00garibaThu, 29 Apr 2010 17:01:22 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9f3a27f8b9aeb780b0b00
What is NFL, MBL all about?
Here, in Brazil we use iPads to watch SOCCER!
iPhone, and iPad soon, are for worldwide sales, don;t you US guys forget all the other humans!
Anyone knows about a camera that can take pictures or make movies in Flash?
I don't...
Let's do what the man is saying, get rid of Flash...
Best wishes!http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9ef267f8b9aef784e0700DDThu, 29 Apr 2010 16:42:14 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9ef267f8b9aef784e0700
Very entertaining rant but not exactly enlightening.
Look, there is no ulterior motive. Jobs is tired of having to depend on lazy third party tool providers for his platform. Mobile is just getting going. The field is wide open and the most innovative platform will win. Apple wants to win by differentiating their platform from the others by moving as fast as possible with superior technology. They can't do that if they have to depend on the likes of Adobe. Adobe made a strategic decision when OSX came out to move more towards Windows. It was a bad decision then and they are paying for it now. The real villains in all this? Chizen, Narayen and their band of idiots. I suspect that the only way Adobe will get back in Apple's good graces is when their Senior (Mis)Management are all fired for their general cluelessness.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9eeef7f8b9a611f1b0200RoninThu, 29 Apr 2010 16:41:19 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9eeef7f8b9a611f1b0200
It's so funny how this pinhead Rayburn won't respond to any of the posts here that pwn him and point out his post for the lies and spin that it is.
Just look at his company's (streamingmedia.com) poorly designed website. Maybe his website doesn't depend on flash but the whole business is hugely dependent on flash and flash developers.
Is he dumb? Did he not think readers would figure this out in a few seconds? Everyone is laughing at you Rayburn.
Adobe is one of Rayburn's company's biggest sponsors and the Adobe logo is all over the steamingpile.com website.
He so lame that he's not even a good shill.
Bye bye Rayburn. Apple's going to put your company out of business!
P.S. He'll probably be afraid to reply to this post but if he does, watch him lie and deny what I've said. Just look at his lame website and you'll see what I've said is true.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9ee2a7f8b9a0c1f9b0300realitybitesThu, 29 Apr 2010 16:38:02 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9ee2a7f8b9a0c1f9b0300
Wow, you're so far off the mark, you can't possible be in the same industry I'm in.
The name of this site should be called, The Business Outsider.
It's like this, you have nothing to hold up your arguments and suppositions.
You make statements of fact, and then fail to back them up with anything stronger than allegory.
No studies, no independent facts, it's all just a rant from someone so clearly with an axe to grind, it's like your being paid. Or, you have no clue about what you speak. It's one of them. You choose.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9ea1a7f8b9a6b1ef90200RichardThu, 29 Apr 2010 16:20:42 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9ea1a7f8b9a6b1ef90200
Who's being disingenuous? Jobs specifically stated open WEB standards, not programs or OS. Did you (the original author) not read the full article? And charecterizing what he said as "ranting", when compared to what was said, is sufficient for anyone unbiased to draw the necessary conclusions. This is far from a rant.
And Jobs did not even point out that development for the iPad can be done in multiple languages, several of which are non-proprietary. And pray tell, take up his challenge and show us any mobile device using flash effectively. Adobe's president (?) just released a statement where he said, oh we'll have it on android any day now. JUST what Jobs said. Not now.
The web standards mentioned are all open. H.264 might have future problems, like GIFs might, but for now they are open, and Jobs specifically did not say H.264 is open forever.
As an experienced PC, windows, mac, iphone, and etc. user, I do not want a device polluted by all this crap. Get another device if you want flash. Many devices do not support it , why aren't you attacking them? Remember when Jobs eliminated floppy drives? Just one example of forward thinking. Dude, get a dell and just STFU. I appreciate Apple's design genius.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9e91f7f8b9ace108e0200SumocatThu, 29 Apr 2010 16:16:31 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9e91f7f8b9ace108e0200
I'm looking at streamingmedia.com right now and there's a box on the bottom right telling me I need to install Flash Player 10 (I'm locked down at work). Ditto for the video pages. Streaming Media East 2009 was sponsored by, among others, Microsoft Silverlight (platinum) and Adobe (gold), who is still a sponsor in 2010. Oh, but your blog on streamingmedia.com appears free of conflicts.
Disclosure: I own one share of Apple stock.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9e6547f8b9a9a1cc70c00RobertThu, 29 Apr 2010 16:04:36 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9e6547f8b9a9a1cc70c00
Hello Mr. Dan Rayburn,
Based on your rant, I'm guessing that you're probably one of the few people who still use floppy disks? I was wondering if you would be so kind as to perhaps donate one of them to our Computer History Museum? That is of course, if you've got a spare that is not being used.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9e4b87f8b9a09754b0100FredThu, 29 Apr 2010 15:57:44 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9e4b87f8b9a09754b0100
Dan, are you still using your floppy disk drive too?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9e3ca7f8b9ace74f50000Dave WheelerThu, 29 Apr 2010 15:53:46 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9e3ca7f8b9ace74f50000
Funny, I just watched a video on my iPhone from MLB.com just now. You can bitch and moan all you want but business are going to make the move to non-Flash formats or they are going to miss a tremendous opportunity. What business in their right mind is going to ignore the sheer volume of Apple mobile users? Sounds like the author is either an Adobe stockholder or has some other interest in Flash, or just wants to generate traffic by posting drivel like this.
Steve is right, Flash isn't a good fit for mobile. It wasn't designed for mobile devices, and it doesn't work well on them (hell I haven't seen a single phone with Flash support). Get over it. The fact that anyone is making a case for Flash on the iPhone/iPad/Android/whatever is beyond me. Give me one good compelling reason why it should be there? Because you already invested in the platform? Well here is a hint, you should have been coding alternate content for non-Flash enabled browsers/devices from the get-go.
Get out your checkbook, hire a developer to do things right, and stop crying.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9e3947f8b9a04753c0000Jay EmThu, 29 Apr 2010 15:52:52 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9e3947f8b9a04753c0000
Wasn't Jobs referring to the web being open on the iPhone OS? He names javascript, HTML5 and CSS. If he were referring to the app store and the OS as open he would be talking about Cocoa?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9e36d7f8b9a0110900100SplashThu, 29 Apr 2010 15:52:13 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9e36d7f8b9a0110900100
You must be an Adobe paid goon with a nasty pen. How dare a pip squeak like you insult Steve Jobs. You are a loud mouth nothing.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9dcbc7f8b9ae21c570000horatio Sans (yes..the Horatio Sans...i love SAI)Thu, 29 Apr 2010 15:23:40 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9dcbc7f8b9ae21c570000
its because Steve Jobs LIESSSSSSSSSSSSS.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9dc2e7f8b9ab71c920000Thomas PindelskiThu, 29 Apr 2010 15:21:18 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9dc2e7f8b9ab71c920000
Hey, Dan.
Just tried to access some of your videos at streamingmedia.com on my iPad and, would you believe it, nothing would show.
Odd, huh? Must be my iPad's fault.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9db877f8b9a4f0e0a0500David R. Thu, 29 Apr 2010 15:18:31 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9db877f8b9a4f0e0a0500
"NFL.com, MLB.com, Petfinder.org, Amazon.com and many other really popular websites"
Seriously? These are your choices for showing that iPhone and iPad are missing out? I don't know if I am representative, but I have never gone to these sites for video, and don't know anyone who does. I produce video, and a lot of web video for a living. I consume a TREMENDOUS amount of web video, and I haven't been skunked on any iProduct to the point of being annoyed. If they don't have h.264, it's probably not worth my time.
Thanks,
Davidhttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9db767f8b9ada1b490600chrisThu, 29 Apr 2010 15:18:14 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9db767f8b9ada1b490600
I found it interesting that you chide Jobs for his comments on H.264 availability, and state "This comment by Steve is simply a lie, which is not my opinion, but a fact." You then proceed to list four sites, and employ the same technique you're complaining about Jobs using by saying, "and many more."
I'm sorry Mr. Rayburn, but four sites does not factual evidence make. If you want to prove your point, provide references to an independent third party analysis of H.264 vs. Flash content.
As to the advertising, iAd is an Apple solution for applications, not explicitly websites. And developers are free to use the other ad-serving providers if they want. Nobody is forcing them to switch to iAd (although I admit concern that Apple will use unfair advantages to make their ad serving network more desirable than others possibly can be). They can keep using the same ad networks they've been using, and if they make mobile-specific websites, they can use any of the web advertising networks.
I used to work in online advertising, and your claim that people use mostly Flash advertising and without Flash they can't deliver ads is quite disingenuous. Ad publishers are all aware that they can publish ads that gracefully degrade to static or JavaScript-based ads that render perfectly fine on any mobile platform. If they are only publishing ads in Flash and not designing them to adjust accordingly when a plugin isn't available, that's their own fault. They should also fire whoever is putting ads up like that, which they pay for but actually get fewer true impressions.
Does Apple hope to start generating revenue via ad sales? Of course they do. Otherwise they wouldn't be getting into the business. I'm not sure what your point is supposed to be that "So Apple clearly wants to divert some of those dollars over to Apple by having a platform that forces you to take web pages and convert them into micro apps making it impossible for the content creator to load any kind of ads." Your statement is a non-sequitor.
The general tone of your commentary is quite angry. I'm not sure why you're so angry about a blog post, but it seems as though you too might have some ulterior motives in your response.
Flash is garbage. It's unfortunate that so much of the web has depended on it over the years. It has a ton of security issues,and it always has, and Adobe has always showed a general lack of interest in platforms other than Windows. In addition to chronic problems on OSX, their support of Linux and other OSes has been abysmal. Adobe (and previously Macromedia) has shown a continued disregard for user complaints and issues with Flash.
And consider this. You may not like the idea of locking users out of Flash. I don't like not having the choice either, and I don't agree with Apple for foisting it on users. But how is moving away from a proprietary solution like Flash and toward open standards like H.264 and HTML5 a bad thing?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9d8c47f8b9aec68be0300Vincent MurphyThu, 29 Apr 2010 15:06:44 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9d8c47f8b9aec68be0300
"MLB.com's website DOES NOT WORK ON THE IPAD! As I said in my post, the videos on the MLB.com website do not work on the iPad."
The fact that websites have decided to use Flash to display their video and not provide an alternate method is not Apple's fault. If a site doesn't work on the iPad, it's the web developer's fault. There is no technical reason why the mlb's content would not work on the iPad: it was the MLB's business decision to lock their delivery mechanism to one proprietary plugin that's the problem.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9d4e47f8b9aad68f00000Sarah (Fake CEO of PetFinder.Org)Thu, 29 Apr 2010 14:50:12 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9d4e47f8b9aad68f00000
Reading through this comment chain, we are happy to see petfinder.org is gaining so much attention. We have countless of pets that need to be adopted. Come visit our website.
concerning the article. We have an ipad and iphone app for all this, so not sure what the author is referring too, but keep the traffic coming.
- Sarah ( Fake CEO of Petfinder.org)http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9d3f97f8b9a83685a0100Salvatora DitoraThu, 29 Apr 2010 14:46:16 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9d3f97f8b9a83685a0100
I actually just called petfinder.org corporate asking about their plans around flash. They said they dont like it that you are including them in your articles.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9d39c7f8b9a961a770900happyhappyThu, 29 Apr 2010 14:44:44 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9d39c7f8b9a961a770900
Dan - you should know better than to disagree with steve and the fanboy gestapo....http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9d2057f8b9adf1a800500Dan RayburnThu, 29 Apr 2010 14:37:57 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9d2057f8b9adf1a800500
Chris, you write the same way Steve does, with generic phrases. Define your version of "most of" and "popular sites". That does not mean anything.
You say "That leaves the smaller sites that don't generate that much traffic." Have you heard of Amazon before? How about Zappos? Think those sites don't have "much traffic".? get real.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9d1dd7f8b9a0a1bc80200RyanThu, 29 Apr 2010 14:37:16 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9d1dd7f8b9a0a1bc80200
Jeff is agreeing on the "all about money" because:
Businesses need to make money. That's one of their purposes, not some side-effect benefit. :)http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9d1a37f8b9aa364950700oh wellThu, 29 Apr 2010 14:36:19 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9d1a37f8b9aa364950700
why should you have to pay for the bandwidth to get those videos? or the internet connection that gets you to the website? or the phone? hell dan, lot of stuff in life isn't free. Those apps are cheap. I'll give you the $.99 to buy the app, or is it $5? gosh. that's just terrible.
i'm sure MLB will come around eventually. It isn't actually Apple forcing you to pay by the way - that's MLB - kind of their choice isn't it? they could offer their app for free.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9d0e37f8b9ab21a9d0400Dan RayburnThu, 29 Apr 2010 14:33:07 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9d0e37f8b9ab21a9d0400
So I'm "living in a hole", yet you agree with me that this is all about money. I guess we're living in the same "hole" then.
So you're implying that because HP bought Palm that HP now believes the PC space is dying? So why doesn't Apple get out of the PC business then and only focus on selling iPad and iPhones? Oh wait, because one marker is not replacing the other.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9d0927f8b9af167980000RyanThu, 29 Apr 2010 14:31:45 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9d0927f8b9af167980000
MLB.com doesn't work on the iPad because of a poor Flash implementation.
If a user doesn't have Flash, they simply miss out.
That can be addressed though with a better implementation of Flash:
Load alternative content instead of Flash if a user doesn't have it.
Another important point that Steve did not touch on is Flash is fragmented. A user could have any version and most of the time, it's not the latest. So then you have to offer more granularity on your Flash detection:
If your Flash movie uses the new features that Flash 10 offers and the end user only has Flash Player 9 and below: the content will not work properly. You'll need to detect the end user's Flash version:
+User has Flash Player 10: Show the Flash 10 content
+User has Flash Player 9 and below: Show the Flash 9 and below content.
+User doesn't have Flash: show html content.
A better implementation since the user will never see a broken plugin image, a bunch of Flash player debug messages, and they can still see *something* even if they don't have Flash installed.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9d0297f8b9aa767ad0100oh wellThu, 29 Apr 2010 14:30:00 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9d0297f8b9aa767ad0100
compared to any other phone at the time (2007) , this statement was true. browsing on a blackberry or palm or windows phone was horrible at best. the iphone was the first one to deliver a "normal" browsing experience to the phone (that i'm aware of). flash wasn't covered... but you know, neither were some activeX controls. big deal.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9cfb27f8b9a3e1a400800ChrisThu, 29 Apr 2010 14:28:02 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9cfb27f8b9a3e1a400800
Uhhh.....youtube accounts for 40% of the video traffic on the web. Most if not all Youtube videos have been transcoded and are available on Apples devices. Most of the popular sites offer versions compatible with Apple too. That leaves the smaller sites that don't generate that much traffic.
Get your facts right, buddy.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9cef37f8b9a190d920000Huh?Thu, 29 Apr 2010 14:24:51 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9cef37f8b9a190d920000
People still watch baseball? Who knew.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9ceaf7f8b9adf0ceb0100Real Men of Genius: Mr. Really, Really, Really Angry FanboyThu, 29 Apr 2010 14:23:42 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9ceaf7f8b9adf0ceb0100
Here's to you, Apple fanboy!
The fanboy ad hominem hate in full affect here in the comments is just hilarious!
Thank you fanboys for making my day. This is VERY entertaining.
Are any of you able to engage any of the facts that Dan points out in a substantive way or is this fanboy rage the order of the day?
Either way, it is extremely entertaining!http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9ce987f8b9ac70c7a0300Dan RayburnThu, 29 Apr 2010 14:23:20 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9ce987f8b9ac70c7a0300
I agree with you. But the key word you used is "alternative". I don't have any choice on Apple's device to use the MLB website or their app. Why am I forced to have to pay to get the better quality video via an app? Why can't I just see a 30 second clip without an app and then pay if and when I want a better user experience? I should have a choice like I have now on the PC. I can see a highlight for free, or I can pay to have MLB.TV, download a plugin to get HD quality, and see a full game. Apple refuses to give consumers that choice.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9cd8e7f8b9a961a480200Dan RayburnThu, 29 Apr 2010 14:18:54 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9cd8e7f8b9a961a480200
Seems you don't want to argue any of my points. Why not? If they are so wrong, point them out. Don't agree with it, fine. Spend the time I did to write out why.
And by the way, I don't get lots of hits at all or benefit from the traffic to BusinessInsider.com - I don't work for them and I don't get paid anything when they syndicate posts of mine to their blog.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9cd8a7f8b9a141a100600oh wellThu, 29 Apr 2010 14:18:50 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9cd8a7f8b9a141a100600
But Dan, you're the one missing the point. The MLB app is a perfectly acceptable alternative to watching videos on the ipad/iphone - maybe better than the web experience. So people who want to see MLB content on a mobile device don't have to miss out if they don't want to. personally i'd rather watch MLB on a highdef bigscreen tv... but that's just me.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9cd027f8b9acc0b980800RyanThu, 29 Apr 2010 14:16:34 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9cd027f8b9acc0b980800
This post is really biased. I don't think anyone should limit themselves to one operating system, one language, and one type of computer. The tech world would be boring.
Steve's points are spot on actually. They've sat down and done their own research because they originally wanted to use Flash. So they discussed the bad points that Flash has and they decided not to go with it.
There is nothing wrong with that decision. If Adobe makes better improvements to Flash, I'm sure Adobe will have another chance. However, I strong agree with the last point Steve made:
"We know from painful experience that letting a third party layer of software come between the platform and the developer ultimately results in sub-standard apps and hinders the enhancement and progress of the platform"
See, they've been at the same position before. Why do a repeat? With that experience under your belt, why would you make the same choice of what was possibly (in hindsight) a poor decision before?
A great deal of mobile users that purchase apps/services on their phone are impulse buyers. If you have a poor implementation of Flash (doesn't show alternative content) then you could be missing out on a sale and/or connection.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9ccef7f8b9a9f0c3b0200oh wellThu, 29 Apr 2010 14:16:15 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9ccef7f8b9a9f0c3b0200
well this is dan's opinion, that it is still the pc era. most people would disagree. laptop era maybe. but it is definite a time of change in focus from desktop/laptop to mobile computing. flash will continue to be relevant on the desktop for a while, steve didn't dispute that - but on mobile devices he's arguing it isn't well suited... i think dan is just ranting on this paragraph to no great effect except to sound shrill and defensive.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9cc667f8b9a981aa60000oh wellThu, 29 Apr 2010 14:13:58 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9cc667f8b9a981aa60000
then petfinder better start serving up h.264 because only doing flash is missing out on a big audience (all smart phones).http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9cc627f8b9aa819060800Dan RayburnThu, 29 Apr 2010 14:13:53 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9cc627f8b9aa819060800
I find it ironic that Sammy's not arguing about the NFL or Amazon and instead, is not arguing my point that video does not work at Petfinder.org, only that he does not feel it's a "popular site". So what he is saying is yes, I am right that video does not work on Petfinder.org, but who cares as it's not popular.
And no, my business is not run on Flash. I don't see any video content and don't advertise within any of my video content. And all of the videos on my blog, which are free, work on the iPad.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9cbd77f8b9aa919d90600michael Thu, 29 Apr 2010 14:11:35 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9cbd77f8b9aa919d90600
the fact of the matter is flash does require more processing power and as a result draws more power. It's also buggy & relatively unprotected...
In a mobile devices world where battery life, speed and efficiency is key it's not that hard to figure out...http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9cb967f8b9a140c530500Dan RayburnThu, 29 Apr 2010 14:10:29 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9cb967f8b9a140c530500
Please, stop with the MLB argument. MLB.com's website DOES NOT WORK ON THE IPAD! As I said in my post, the videos on the MLB.com website do not work on the iPad. If you want to see them, you have to pay to download the MLB app just to see the videos.
Apple has not moved forward with "newer technology". Too many people are confused as to what HTML5 is. It's a programming language, that simply uses a video tag. That's not "new technology" and there is no agreed upon "standard" video codec for HTML5.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9cb917f8b9ac663470100Salvatore DitoraThu, 29 Apr 2010 14:10:25 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9cb917f8b9ac663470100
ha!
I find it hilarious that out of Sammy's two comments, Dan had to address petfinder.org.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9cad67f8b9ac10bbd0500ErikThu, 29 Apr 2010 14:07:18 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9cad67f8b9ac10bbd0500
Apple iPhone Ad - 2007
This is not a watered down version of the internet
...or the mobile version of the internet
...or the kinda sorta looks like the internet version of the internet
it's just the internet...
...on your phone
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzV-W_6WOm0http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9ca2e7f8b9a795ab50c00Dan RayburnThu, 29 Apr 2010 14:04:30 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9ca2e7f8b9a795ab50c00
Petfinder has tens of thousands of videos and is the number one site on the web for people looking to adopt an animal. Just because it's not a movie site, does not mean that it can't still be popular. It's the number one site in terms of traffic for the business they are in.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9c93d7f8b9aae5a470c00KenCThu, 29 Apr 2010 14:00:29 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9c93d7f8b9aae5a470c00
Please, try.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9c8f87f8b9a6d5a690a00JeffThu, 29 Apr 2010 13:59:20 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9c8f87f8b9a6d5a690a00
Dan, thanks for letting everyone know that you should never be trusted or listened to on topics relating to computing and mobile devices. Just a couple of points since you appear to be living in a hole.
"Well I hate to tell you this Steve, but it's still the PC era."
Either you're sorely mistaken, or HP missed that memo.
Flash is a proprietary platform. iPhone and iPad are proprietary systems. HTML5, H.264, CSS, Javascript are open platforms. Jobs never argues that the iPhone and iPad are open, what he points out is that they both use open platforms.
Everything goes back to money. There's no avoiding that. Jobs and Apple have put their weight behind open platforms because it makes good business since. They have chosen to go that technological route because they will make more money that way. It's not an either/or issue. They're choosing better technology to bring in more money. Period.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9c88c7f8b9abc0b1f0300cmky3Thu, 29 Apr 2010 13:57:32 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9c88c7f8b9abc0b1f0300
Can anyone post on BusinessInsider now? This guy didn't even read Job's post (or worse he ignored it.)
While closed systems aren't great, closed system that don't support open standards are terrible (I'm an Android guy so I'm no Apple fan boy btw.). Apple's browser supports open standards (html5, css, javascript - which Jobs mentioned about 14 times) while Adobe's Flash does not (nor is it an open standard). Not anyone can write a flash player and that's the problem - if it was open there'd probably be a hardware chip that could play it efficiently and one of Job's arguments goes away.
Agree on PetFinder.org - if that's third most important site that goes away he's making the counter point. I suspect mlb and nfl are flash only to force the iphone owners to buy apps. Sucks for them, but that's what you get for buying a phone with closed OS.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9c76b7f8b9aaf19cc0100davesmallThu, 29 Apr 2010 13:52:43 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9c76b7f8b9aaf19cc0100
I'll put this as politely as I can Dan.
I've just read Steve Jobs letter and your article. I found Steve's article to be extremely informative and objective. On the other hand, your article brought to mind this term from the political arena: "Spin Doctor."
You've picked out a couple of his points and have attempted to amplify and spin them while at the same time ignoring most of his other points. For example, the fact that most existing flash video content on the web uses software decoding which is a battery hog.
I use ClickToFlash on my Mac which prevents Flash content from running unless you click on a frame containing flash. All the gray boxes filling up many web pages immediately tell me that Flash is primarily used as a delivery vehicle for advertising. I don't want those ads software decoding and running down my battery.
Adobe makes create software tools for creating media content. Why don't they make a great App for migrating Flash content to HTML5? Then they'd be a part of the solution instead of a part of the problem.
I fully agree with Steve's arguments against the use of cross-platform development tools.
I don't want Flash on my mobile devices but I do want websites to convert that content to HTML5.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9c74c7f8b9a625b880400Shannon SofieldThu, 29 Apr 2010 13:52:12 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9c74c7f8b9a625b880400
Anyone could certainly go point by point through Jobs' post and refute each one, just as he could offer a seemingly valid rebuttal as well. I think this discussion parallels the fact that Apple does not allow other hardware manufacturers to make "Macs". They retain tight control over the entire process and therefore can guarantee or expect a certain experience which would not be possible if licensing their hardware technology, or in this case, allowing Flash on their mobile devices. Just my $0.02. Also note, Flash was a Macromedia product (and before that Future Splash), not an Adobe product originally.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9c7257f8b9aa90b0d0200RobThu, 29 Apr 2010 13:51:33 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9c7257f8b9aa90b0d0200
Congratulations Dan. You got lots of hits without adding anything to the discussion but emotional ranting.
Find your self a job.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9c61c7f8b9abb5f1f0000Cesar AlsinaThu, 29 Apr 2010 13:47:08 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9c61c7f8b9abb5f1f0000
I'm baffled by Business Insider publishing such a poor unarticulated "rebuttal" to Steve Jobs' Flash manifesto. No quality, no sense whatsoever.
This can only be explained by you guys wanting to have something up online as quick as possible to lure people here (as you didi with me) while the heat is fresh.
Shame on you guys. You lowered my trust on you, certainly.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9c5607f8b9a6d5b2c0200Craig SavThu, 29 Apr 2010 13:44:00 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9c5607f8b9a6d5b2c0200
Adobe wants to allow its developers to use Flash for creating cross-platform applications that will run on Apple’s platform. Steve doesn't want this to happen. Also, I have to agree with Sammy's comments. You obviously have a person stake in this.
BTW: The MLB app is one of the best in the app store and offers better video streaming than the MLB website and that is a fact as well.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9c5067f8b9aa10aff0600CATThu, 29 Apr 2010 13:42:29 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9c5067f8b9aa10aff0600
He's so wrong on many points
“open” –
Granted that Adobe is the only vendor supporting this, they make no income on deployment of Flashplayer and/or Flash dev tools. Also, Flash runs across all other platforms (including Mac OSX). Iphone/ ipad apps only run on iPhone OS.
“”full web” -
- He specifically calls out H.264 video support. Flash currently supports this, however, it requires the “publisher/creater” to buy and use technology called Video Codecs to produce video in the format. It is a better quality format, however, generally flash does not require these codecs especially on Youtube and other video upload sites. No cameras support either format natively
- Flash games – really not clear why he even bothers to point this out. Flash games and iphone app games are completely different. If you play flash games they are cross platform. If you play iphone games, you only play them on the iphone/ipad.
“reliability, security and performance”
- reliability and security – iphones have been hacked too. Nothing is hack free
- performance on mobile has been an issue due to the devices using low powered chips to keep device cost and power requirements down. This will be a problem for iphone apps once iphone supports multitasking this will be a problem on iphone too.
“battery life”
Blue Tooth is probably the biggest battery hog out there and yet the iphone supports it. Can’t the user decide whether they want to sacrifice battery life for flash?
“touch”
Well really since touch is not proprietary to iphone/ipad since Windows and Android have licensed this just like Apple has this eventually will not be an issue.
“most important reason”
“third party layer of software come between the platform and the developer ultimately results in sub-standard apps” – Like a browser?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9c4a67f8b9a6d5b1f0100RidleyGriffThu, 29 Apr 2010 13:40:54 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9c4a67f8b9a6d5b1f0100
MLB video? Available on the MLB app.
This is a PC era still? Perhaps, but he's discussing implementation on <i>mobile devices</i>. That's precisely his point; that it is not a suitable technology for these newer devices. Perhaps you misread his statement? Or perhaps you think Flash isn't allowed on Macs?
Regarding mobile implementation of Flash, I suppose you would have had Apple wait around, never releasing phones until processors were powerful enough to run Flash on mobile devices (what many think is the true cause of Adobe's constant delays)?
Or they could have released their products, noting that they were waiting for Flash from Adobe, and thereby providing zero incentive to developers and content providers to change their video implementation, ensuring that Apple's devices would never get access to web video until Adobe was able to turn out a mobile Flash player.
No, Apple did what every other company did -- they moved forward with a newer technology, and a strategy that they hoped would benefit their users (selling devices to users is how they make money, after all).
Perhaps you should check your own logic and facts before calling people liars.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9c4907f8b9a725a720600iObeyThu, 29 Apr 2010 13:40:32 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9c4907f8b9a725a720600
Be careful. The Apple SWAT team may come to your house with their iTasers and kick down your door. They've been known to put journalists in their place.
Steve Jobs be praised.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9c38b7f8b9a775a660500KenCThu, 29 Apr 2010 13:36:11 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9c38b7f8b9a775a660500
Uhm, no.
85+M in sales of iPhones, iPod touches and iPads, indicate that Steve was telling the truth. The proof of the pudding is in the eating and those 85+M have voted with their wallets.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9c3467f8b9aaf5aa50400Tim F.Thu, 29 Apr 2010 13:35:02 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9c3467f8b9aaf5aa50400
"Well I hate to tell you this Steve, but it's still the PC era. For all the growth of the mobile space in the U.S., how much of that content consumed on a mobile device is video? Very little. No one is getting rid of their PCs because they have a mobile device, the PC is not going anywhere and the volume of content that is delivered to PCs will always surpass what will be delivered to mobile. Apple's iPhone and iPad's are not going to replace the PC experience, ever."
What does this paragraph have to do with not allowing Flash on Apple's mobile devices? Flash works on my Mac; it just works poorly.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9c32e7f8b9aee0a170300Sammy the Walrus IVThu, 29 Apr 2010 13:34:38 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bd9c32e7f8b9aee0a170300
let me guess, your business is based around Flash.
you list Petfinder.org as a popular video source for the public, you are joking right?