I'm beginning to think that there's no chance any more for decent health care reform. It's been poisoned by the lunatic fringe to the point that I just don't see how anything of value is going to pass.

The only way to properly reform health care would be to have a publicly funded universal health care system. Since this isn't going to happen, any reform would be a failure since it would fall short of that goal.

It annoys me when people call Obama a socialist. If he was, that would be a good thing.

I think the only shot we have a real health care reform is on a state by state level. Big pharma and health insurance companies have been doling out money for years to "our" elected representatives.
So the best I think congress can do this at this point is change the federal laws that prevent states from enacting their own universal health care laws.

I didn't think it was much of a chance.

I would be happy if the "no child left behind" bullshit was changed though, I'm hoping education gets a bit better, only because there aren't as many corporations making money off of fucked up education.

I think that there are some incremental changes that would be helpful and could lead to eventual full scale reform. For example, the provision in the House bill to stop insurers from denying people because of pre-existing conditions would help a lot of people. Sure, it isn't the kind of wholesale reform that is really needed, but it's a start. I also thing the provision in the bill for end of life counseling to be covered is an outstanding idea.

I've pretty much given up on the idea of complete reform. As of this morning, I'm further concerned that even the possibility of incremental change is lost in the firestorm of blatant lie and fear mongering campaigns waged by...hell...I don't even know who's waving the conductor's baton. It just seems to me that whoever they are, they've won. The whole debate has been poisoned and polarized to the point that rational voices are completely drowned out.

What prompted this is that I overheard some discussions here at work that have just blown my mind. Normally pretty smart people here have bought into some of the most egregious lies. I really thought that it was pretty easy to see that Palin's "Death Panel" was just a damned lie. But some people here believe it. It has blown my mind. I showed them the relevent portion of the bill and explained what is really is. Guess what? I'm the one who is "doesn't understand."

I think that there are some incremental changes that would be helpful and could lead to eventual full scale reform. For example, the provision in the House bill to stop insurers from denying people because of pre-existing conditions would help a lot of people. Sure, it isn't the kind of wholesale reform that is really needed, but it's a start.

I have a better idea: deny insurance companies any corporate status. As a result, they will have to work harder and be a little more creative to get customers. Not only would they start offering insurance to to people with pre-existing conditions but heck, I am willing to bet they will offer insurance to your dead relatives in preparation for the second coming.

I do think it's crazy, it'd be great if they stopped the pre-existing condition bit. Advanced directive counseling certainly isn't a "death panel." I think they could have made insurance less draconian and available for a few more people, but I wasn't holding my breath that comprehensive change would be enacted.

Universal health care bills have passed in a couple of states to get knocked down by the federal law (ERISA?), so I don't think the well is completely poisoned. The reality of people's crappy experiences will eventually out weigh the stupid spin machine, I hope.

That sounds idyllic, but watch out...places like that demand that you do things like lasting through an entire meal with lutefisk without grimacing. And they have their version of waterboarding, too...they parboil you first, flog you with birch switches, and then immerse you in freezing cold water.