Short hops and hard knocks with Red Sox beat writer Ian Browne.

Rookie talk

Dice-K takes the ball tonight in Bird-land, going for win No. 14. And to me, that brings up a very compelling point. If the Rookie of the Year comes from the Red Sox this year, which is a very good possibility, who should it be?

My friend/colleague Bill Ballou of the Worcester Telegram has the vote for Rookie of the Year and will not vote for Dice-K or Okajima, just as he did not vote for Matsui in 2003. Bill’s point, and it’s a good one, is how you can consider someone a rookie when they’ve been playing professional baseball for years?

While I agree with Bill’s thoughts, the fact of the matter is that Dice-K and Okajima are still eligible for the award by the letter of the law, so should they be penalized for that mistake? You make the call.

Pedroia, a true rookie in every way, is hitting .326 and has been terrific on both sides of the ball.

I want all of you comenters this weekend to let me know which of these 3 you would vote for?

Is it the steady everyday player who is a true rookie?

Is it the Japanese icon who has, in all but a few of his outings, lived up to the enormous expectations?

Is it the other Japanese pitcher who has come out of nowhere to become one of the best relief pitchers in baseball?

P.S. — I wanted to express a heartfelt thanks to each and every one of you who expressed support and sympathy to my family and I in the comments section during what has been the most trying time of my life. It means a lot.

I’ll be laying very low until Aug. 23, when the Red Sox go to Chicago. I had already had some vacation time scheduled before the personal tragedy that took me out of work last week. But I will be monitoring the team either through MLB.TV’s archived games or even the comments section on the blog.

Well it is tough. I do not think that a player should be qualified if they have played pro ball long enough overseas. Maybe if they come over but are 25 or younger they should qualify. At a certain point they will become what they are as a ball player whether they are here or there in a major league type setting.

Welcome back Ian hope everything is as well as it can be with your family.
Dustin should get the MVP. Not just because he is a “true rookie” but at the beginning of the season just about every Boston fan was calling for him to be benched and he never let that faze him. That says a lot about him as a player being able to cope with the Boston fans and media. On top of that he is having an excellent season. He’s done more than many people thought he would.

There are so many rookie of the year candidates this year. Of course Boston has 3, Guthrie of the Orioles might get the award, Okijima would get my vote. Delmon Young of the D-Rays also would be high on my list. Is B.J. Upton a rookie? Andrew Miller of the Tigers, Reggie Willits of the Angels as well. Alot of good young talent in the A.L. this year and the voters have there hands full on this one.

I would think that the Sox take 2 of 3 from the Orioles and if Boston wins tonight a sweep could happen. Yankees in Cleveland and the games the Sox lost on this road trip might be made up this weekend, here’s hoping. Bedard is on a roll in the last month or so.

So this is a FOURTEEN MILLION DOLLAR A YEAR PLAYER??? They should’ve stuck with Pena….
Maybe one day Nancy Drew will solve the mystery as to why the RedSox felt the need to pay him so much money!!!!! Good Luck, I’m a pretty good detective, but i still at odds trying to put that puzzle together!!!

Sorry Jeff, If and when the day comes that JD Drew produces to the tune of 14 million a year, I will beg the forgiveness of every JD backer there is and I will literally stand up and give a sincere apology. …. but, I don’t see this happening any time soon!!!

Yep… I probably should stop typing right now due to the frustration tonight’s game has caused.
I still for the life of me have absolutely NO FRIGGEN idea why we needed to add to the best bullpen in the league.

I still for the life of me don’t know why we outbid ourselves for DL Drew.

Offense shows some life and instead of taking just a 2-1 lead, goes ahead and gives a 4 run cushion. Sorry, but no one, especially not a guy that thinks he should be a closer, should give up a 4 run lead to a team that is 16 1/2 games out with only 2 innings to play.

Thanks for giving up 3 prospects for a useless 2 month rental that the team didn’t need.

For every Dice K and Okijima signing, there is a Drew, Renta Wreck, Wily Mo, Lugo, Gagne.

This says it all about Francoma’s ineptitude..From the dirt dogs site:

After the Red Sox took a 5-1 lead in the top of the eighth Friday against the Orioles, Eric Gagne gave it all back Friday while recording just one out.

It’s nice that his players like him and all that, but Terry Francona really can be an awful manager when he gets the chance. The Orioles had left-handers Corey Patterson and Nick Markakis due up to start the eighth, but Francona went to Gagne over Hideki Okajima. A double, an RBI single and a walk followed. Gagne finally recorded the first out on a tapper back to the mound. He actually bobbled the ball and only got the out because it happened to be Kevin Millar plodding to first. Aubrey Huff, another lefty, then doubled to right to bring the Orioles within one. That finally got Okajima into the game — now against a righty — and an RBI grounder through the infield tied it. The Orioles ended up winning in the bottom of the ninth. Had the Red Sox gone Okajima/Jonathan Papelbon or even Okajima/Gagne, it likely would have been an easy win. Instead, Francona defied all logic, simply because Gagne was acquired to be The Eighth Inning Guy.

I, having been a Dustin doubter, have already made my apologies regarding him being the starting 2nd baseman this year. I explained that I am very resistant to change and that and the fact that Loretta had a great year in 2006 was a reason as well. I think that Pedroi-er (as the RemDog pronounces his name) is THE ROOKIE OF THE YEAR hands down!! His grit and determination should get it for him even without his BA. He’s done a fabulous job for the Sox. I’ll sign off on this as: NO LONGER A DOUBTER, I’M A BELEIVER!!!!

This is the type of loss that can have long-term repurcussions. It is demoralizing. Hopefully, the Sox can rebound with wins tomorrow and Sunday. J.D. Drew’s misplay was costly, but he is typically a solid defensive outfielder. This was not Drew’s fault, It was Gagne and Okajima. No way Gagne should be getting key innings anymore. Delcarmen is more dependable.

And though I have been a Francona supporter in the past, he has made numerous head-scratching decisions about his pitching staff. Whether they advance deep into the post-season or not, I’m beginning to think he might not be back next season.

I can’t believe they gave up Gabbard, who was pitching well and might be needed, to get this joker. Now we’ve got an ineffective Lester, Schilling may not be able to go more than 5-6 innings, Wake is up and down. So that leaves 2 sure things, Beckett and Dice-K. I’d really like to have Gabbard back.

Dustin is the rookie of the year. He’s hitting .325+ and is a definite Gold Glove candidate. Okajima has been tremendous but he’s a setup man. Dice-K has been a little inconsistent and I just don’t consider him or Okie Dokie true rookies, no matter what the rule says.

The Gagne trade was a bad one, not only because he hasn’t performed, but also because the Sox didn’t need him. Arnie hit it right on the head. The rotation is questionable at best with Lester and Schilling being unknown commodities. Wakefield is Wakefield and we’ve known what he was going to give the Sox all along, and that’s just what he has done. He’s gonna get his 16-17 wins with 13-14 losses. Those are good numbers for a back end pitcher.

I didn’t get to see the game tonight, but I did see the lowlights on Sportscenter. One of the things they showed was the Drew play. I’ve been tough on Drew all year, but I thought he made a good effort on that play. It was a line drive pretty much right at him and those are tough to judge. I can’t chastise him for that.

However, comments about Francona’s managerial prowess are pretty valid. He has made some bad decisions and he manages a pitching staff like ****.

In retrospect (of course hindsight is always 20/20), I think I would have gotten Crsip out of center field when the runner reached third in the 9th. I might have moved Drew to center and Crisp to right. Drew might have had a better shot on that sacrifice fly, which did not appear to be that deep. I might even have though about putting Moss in center. It’s a desparation move, but that’s what you do in those situations.

To address the RoY issue at first, the argument that Dice-K and Okajima have been playing pro ball for years can be turned around on any rookie coming up from the farm systems. That’s technically pro ball as well. So again, like Ian said, I don’t see how that’s fair to hold that against Japanese players, especially when many writers/voters/baseball pundits, etc. consider Japanese baseball “AAAA” ball. Plus where’s the love for the setup men? If they falter, well the closer doesn’t get his shot for the possible save nor does the starter get the chance for the possible win.

However, considering the fact that neither Dice-K or Oki Doki will be getting many RoY considerations, I think DP should get RoY. He was slow to get hot but since then, he’s been darn near consistent and hitting REALLY well.

As for the Gagne trade, I don’t think the trade has completely showed it’s value yet, but right now, I’m with Arnie. I miss Gabbard because he was relatively consistent. Poor Lester is coming back from cancer treatments and that’s something that definitely has to be affecting him somewhat and Schilling is our version of Clemens now: average of 6 innings and that’s it. But we’ll see, this could be just slight adjustments Gagne is going through and keep in mind, our pitching coach hasn’t really worked too much with Lester so I’m sure they’re working on something.

Jeff, I agree with you man; Tito’s been a bit whack as of late and it make me wonder: even if we make the post season if we go deep and don’t win it all (or don’t go deep that is), will he be gone?

this team is an absolute train wreck and it’s all a reflection on their manager and GM if you ask me. 14M per year to a guy your afraid to play against lefties? francona is the worst game manager i’ve ever seen. i don’t care if they win the WS he is absolutely awful at managing his pitching staff and that’s really his most imp job. the sad part is i doubt theo has the onions to fire him.

Today is a new beginning, we’ve got out Ace on the hill, and a DP-turner in Dustin Pedroia behind him. This is no time to Lose Faith in the team, that was last year. Even then I constantly followed the team during games and road trips.
I’m not pointing fingers because its a useless action, Francona and Epstien aren’t reading this, the advice coming out of our mouths isn’t ever going to be scanned by their eyes or heard by their ears.

Ditto on Dustin he is a sure fire pick for R.O.Y. The only statistics that might hurt him are his power (HR) and RBI numbers. However he does have some other decent-excellent stats . . . .

On offense . . . .

.326 batting average

Only 30 strikeouts in 340 AB

.401 OBP

24 Doubles

In the field . . . .

Has made 3 errors in 252 chances

.993 fpct T-1st among AL 2B

Turned 58 double plays good for 8th in the AL behind on the games elite, and he also ahead of many elite 2B

The power production will hinder him because, according to the “fake” MLB rulebook, a star player is “power-hitter”.

You’re right RS, Let’s turn this ship around today!! Beckett has been solid, solid, solid!! Pedroia has been great, Mikey keeps on producing when we need it. Coco, has been more patient at the plate. Youk, well he’s just excellent at first. We’ve got a great bullpen. Well we’ve really got alot to be positive about. If the Yankees were able to turn their season around WE CAN TOO!!
I kept my rose colored glasses on last year until it was absolutely mathematically undeniable that we were out of it, and even then I still watched every play of every game. Call me a homer, if you like, but we’re still on top and all it takes is one game, one play to turn things around!!!

Come on Nationers let’s STAY behind our Beloved SOX.

I’m going to attempt to write nothing negative about anything or anybody. You know what your mom used to say: “if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all!!”

I would not read too much into that loss last night. Ya, Gagne blew it, Tito may have been sleeping at the switch, but the bull pen has played well all year, they are gonna blow one or two a month. Remember last year? No lead was safe. Look at the good side, as ellen does, the team came back on the road,dice k was great, and look at who had that 2 out hit? WMP. I know there is concern about what happens when the playoffs start, but the team that wins the WS is usually the team that gets hot. Red Sox 04, that White Sox team in 05 played .500 ball after the break (or close to it) then got hot in the playoffs. Obviously last year St. Louis was not even a top 8 team and still won it. So we need to make sure we hit our stride in mid september. Without losing the division of course.

Are we not a demented group us Red Sox fans? On Thursday morning I felt great after that comeback (but tired) But this morning I woke up generally pissed-off. My wife is from Milwaukee and she likes the Sox and watches all the games (usually reading some girly magazine) but she tells me that eventually this team will be my demise. I find going to the driving range and taking John Daly swings at the ball helps.

Good post, Connor. And you’re right, it’s a matter of who gets hot and when.

RSN, we have to take a deep breath and relax. The key word in ” 5 game lead over the Yanks ” is LEAD. We’re still leading ! A loss like last night’s will make us think that the things are worse than they actually are. The thing is, Tito is the same guy that was pushing all the right buttons in April and May and won a WS in 03. And who said that a Cy Young winner righty can’t be thrown in a game against left handed hitters ? Like one said : ” who wrote that **** book ” ? I know Oki was available, but still. While Gagne isn’t quite the same pitcher that saved 55 games in 03, he’s still ( usually ) a force on the mound.

As for Drew, while he usually makes me scream words that wouldn’t be tolerated here, it’s always for a lack of clutch hitting ( or lack of hitting, period ) and for his i-don’t-care attitude. His defensive skills have never been an issue.

Afternoon game today. If they lose and the Yanks win, then ….. Ellen, can i borrow your glasses ?

Connor, I find that going to the batting cages is ideal therapy for the day after an aggravating Red Sox loss. I am playing in a 30-and-over wooden bat baseball league, so I go to the cages a couple times a week to keep my timing down. I do agree that the bullpen is solid, and in most cases, a lead is safe. However, the way that Francona mismanages the bullpen – and the entire pitching staff – is a concern. I wrote about it in a post today. Gagne should not have been out there for the eighth, and Papelbon should have been called upon once Okajima gave up the leadoff double to Roberts in the ninth. But that was yesterday, and it is over. I’m hoping that the Sox can rebound from that demoralizing loss and win today and tomorrow.

Jeff, you are correct (even though you are a Wright State Grad! Go UD Flyers!) I know the thought process is you are suppose to bring in the closer when you have the lead in extra innings but Francona should have taken out Okajima and brought in Paps. I also agree with rsox that we need to take a deap breath and move on. But, if we lose the division by a game or miss the wild card by a game, last night will be a game we will look to as one we should have won.

Regarding Francona and Gagne: I assume Gagne was out there because a 4 run lead seemed safe and it was a good time to give him some work so he could be sharp. BUT, he should have been out of there after the first run scored, if not before that. Once again Tito stuck with his pitcher too long. Right now the trade looks horrendous. The bullpen was great before. Now the starting rotation is weakened.

But, today is a new day and we get to see if the Sox have the huevos to shake this off and get back to winning. They DID mount a come-back yesterday after all. And they came back against the Angels on Wed. THAT is a great sign. Now if Francona can learn to judge when his pitchers have gone as far as they can go, we’ll be golden.

We all know that Gagne ****** last night and I wonder why Francona stuck with him for so long. How about J.D. Drew in r.f. What a terrible play by Nancy, that cost the Sox a run. If he/she played it right, it would have been a single but I think Drew’s poor season at the plate hurt him in the field on that play. Not helping the team at the plate so he tried to do too much on that play.

The beauty of baseball is they play the next day and let’s hope Beckett brings his A game today and gets the Sox on the right track.

I watched Chamberlain pitch last night for the Yankees and he was very impressive. I saw him pitch in a spring training game this past year but last night Cleveland’s hitters did not have a chance. He simply over-matched them. This kid is going to be around for a long time, I guess he’ll be Rivera’s replacement eventually.

The idea is Chamberlain as a starter, he is in relief right now because they need him there and he only has about 20-30 innings left on his quota this season. Chamberlain has incredible stamina and can maintain that 97-99 MPH fastball for 90-100 pitches. Rivera’s replacement will come eventually, but I highly doubt you see anybody closing games besides him when the new stadium opens in 2009.

Wang

Hughes

Chamberlain

Three guaranteed spots in the rotation next season barring injury. Though he (Chamberlain) did look nice out of relief.

Missed the game, but from the box score I can tell that this is what RSN was looking for. Domination by Beckett, scoring some runs, Drew got a couple hits(I think I saw that he did), and Tito did not let Manny DC stay in there and make a mess of things. Maybe last night was just what the Sox needed to wake everyone, including Tito, up. Good job Sox.

Whoever is looking for a hotel/motel near the Trop and doesn’t want to pay top $$$$. I would say go to the St. Pete Beach area, about 6 miles or so from the Trop and you have the beach right there. You can’t beat that, any place but the Don Cesar and The Tradewinds, every other place is priced decent. I hope I answered your question. The Sox last time down here stayed at Don Cesar at St. Pete Beach, a big ugly looking pink hotel on the beach.

Pettite will be in the rotation in 08 for sure. From what you read the Yankees have Chamberlain penciled in the rotation but pencils do have erasers. I think him in the pen right before Rivera would be devastating. With Chamberlain in the pen, the game would be shortened for sure. Very impressed with what I saw last night, I was impressed in spring training but of course that is spring training. When you blow away major league hitters in August, your doing something special.

The Yankees scored 7 runs in the 2nd inning as quick as could say game over. That might have been the quickest 7 runs scored in baseball. I think I could get a hit off of Paul Byrd, he is nothing but batting practice.

haha I hope, Arnie, but to be fair, the Yankees have outscored the Tribe 43-14 and will be 5-0 after today. Just one of those years and one of those matchups, they’re making the Yankees look even better.

Bosox, like lightening. You get men on base for Jeter, Abreu, A-Rod, a hot hitting Damon and Matsui, and you’re going to be out of the game really quickly right now.

Don’t tell the Twins Byrd throws batting practice. He threw a 99 pitch complete game against them his last start.

Bosox, Chamberlain is conceivable in the pen, but it is much easier to find a good reliever than it is an ace starter, so I think they will do what’s right and give Chamberlain his spot with Hughes and Wang in the rotation. Pettitte can go either way, I certainly would not hold it against him if he retired, he deserves that choice.

Bosoxbri:, thanks for the answer. But I think that the Don C. is a beautiful piece of architecture. It was built in either the 30’s or 40’s. I took a picture of it from off shore when I was on my honeymoon in 1984. The picture turned out looking like a postcard. I still have it, but not that husband!! The picture turned out better than the marriage!!!! LOL

Bosox, I lived for a couple years in St Pete Beach, worked at the Coral Reef Motel. We used to go to pass-a-grille beach to get away from the tourists. That was in ’76. Bet it’s different now. Spring training games were fun there. From there it was a year in Key West. TOO much fun, I had to leave, otherwise I’d have partied myself to an early grave. Always liked Fla. Good people there.

Back to baseball. I can’t say I called it very often, but it just might be that I was right about Drew getting hot now that his son is finished with the surgery. Let’s hope so.

The Don CeSar is a big ugly pink hotel? Well, it is big, and it is pink, but it is certainly not ugly. It looks like a lavish castle, which is what the builder had in mind when he constructed it as a monument to the woman he loved. I’ve written a couple travel features on the Don. It is one of the most lavish hotels in Florida, and definitely a place I would highly recommend staying – if you don’t mind paying $200-plus a night. I stay at the Comfort Inn not far from the ballpark. It is clean, reasonably priced and right next to I-275. Once agian, there will be a group of us attending the Sept. 22 game and meeting before and after at Ferg’s by the stadium.

Today’s game was a relief. Beckett is certainly this team’s ace and a frontrunner for the Cy Young Award. Good to see Drew and Lugo getting key hits. It is not surprising when Pedroia, Youkilis and Lowell deliver. What a difference one night makes. The Sox will be in excellent shape if they can win tomorrow and return to Fenway with a 71-46 record.

By the way, Ellen, the Don CeSar opened in 1929, not long before the stock market crashed. The builder had made millions in the early Florida real estate boom. He lost almost everything he had with the Don. His ghost now roams the property and has been seen by many guests over the years. Interesting story.

Pedroia for rookie of the year. I have always been against the thought of players coming in from other countries, after years of playing at a profesional level in that country, and being considered a rookie due to a technicality. Hockey has the same situation at times (ie: Russians). A rookie candidate should be someone who is young and gone through all the rough steps it takes to get to the bigs. Not someone who went through it years ago.
All my best wishes to you and your family, Ian

I agree about that Warlock. But if a player plays in Japan rather than the minor leagues here in the US couldn’t it be a similiar situation? Up until a certain age of course. That is why 25 and under should be included in the qualifications unless they are playing in the MLB and come up very late. So if a player comes over at the age of 27 from Japan then he wouldnt be able to win it. But if a player comes up from AAA ball and is 30 he would qualify.

The main problem, imo, is that MLB still doesn’t consider Japan baseball as ” pro caliber ” baseball. It’s AAAA baseball. And i gotta say, i often make that mistake too. But we all know that the japanese players that come here already HAVE pro caliber talent. And maybe they won ROY award ( if they have such award ) in their country a couple years ago. Twice rookie of the year ! LOL

Just kidding, but to me, a rookie is supposed to be a newbie. Do Dice-K and Oki qualify as newbies ? Your call.

If you didn’t have Pedroia, would most of you be making the same argument right now? If your only chance at rookie of the year was in the performance of Dice K or Okajima, would you really be touting the “I don’t believe in players from other countries” argument? I’m just wondering.

Matsui hit 16 HR and was uncomfortable most of 2003. He is a completely different player today. Japanese players may play in a league slightly more difficult than AAA, but they certainly go through the same adjustments, especially position players. Look at someone like Andy Phillips, he is 30, his rookie year was technically when he was 28 I believe. Had he been some great story a la Ankiel, he is still about 7 years older than most rookies, which means the amount of time you spend somewhere else doesn’t matter to me. You can be a rookie at any age as long as it is your first year in the majors according to their rules.

Here is my main problem, major league baseball already has rules to define what a rookie is, who has the right to subject their opinion against those rules, such as if foreign players deserve the title or not? At least when you come up from AAA, you don’t have a new language to learn and a culture to join. There are so many variables even off the field that these foreign players have to adjust to, and even on the field with the 6 man rotations and different style of pitching in Japan. Ask Kei Igawa if he should be considered a rookie or not despite having a ton of success in Japan. Just because your good, doesn’t mean your not adjusting.

Actually the Don Cesar opened in 1928. I say it is ugly by color only. Certainly at a beautiful spot.

Remember these are the same baseball writers that don’t think a D.H. should be considered for M.V.P. When we all know that Oritz should have gotten the M.V.P. over A-Rod. A-Rod wasn’t even the team M.V.P. that year. Baseball writers seem to pick and choose from what I can tell.

My vote is Okajima as well over Delmon Young. Pedroia is certainly a strong candidate as well as many others. Certainly alot of good rookies in the A.L. this year. Alex Gordon of K.C. was one of the more popular choices for R.O.Y. but he has not played well this year. Berrora edged out Matsui back in 03, I think the baseball writers dropped the ball on that one. Matsui would have gotten my vote for sure that year.

Traschel should be out by the 5th inning. I am amazed that guys like him are still around. His best years are way behind him. Why are the Orioles even starting him? Get rid of him and call up some of your young arms in the minors. See what you have or what you don’t have. Orioles organazation has dropped way down and Angelos is the big problem there in Baltimore. Orioles used to be one the more prouder franchises but certainly not anymore.

To be honest, if Pedroia wasn’t having that kind of year, i’d be cheering big time for Oki and Dice-K and probably saying things like ” hey, i don’t make the rules, they’re technically rookies so …. “.

But that’s fan talk. The thing is, like i said in my previous post, to me they were already labeled as professionals even before their first game here. If you can pass over that, so yes, every new player should be considered as a rookie.

And it’s true that they deserve a big deal of credit for what they’ve done to acclimate to their new life, the language, the media, the whole new routine as a basaeball player, let alone as a human being. But when all is said, they were still, to me, professional players BEFORE they come in America.

Maybe some day they will create a new award : FPY ( Foreign Player of the Year ) LOL

Vince, those are good points and you can take it a step further. MLB, in the last 25 years or so, has become the International All-star League. So it is in another category. The players come from all over and the level of play has improved. So I think any rookie is a rookie no matter where he comes from.
I choose Pedroia because as an every day player he has many more chances to fail yet he is so consistent. Oki next because he has been SO outstanding.

See but in the case of MVP I think DH does come into play. Not to say they should NEVER win it, but they certainly need overwhelmingly better numbers than a position player who happened to play gold glove caliber defense that season. Seeing as A-rod had comparable offensive numbers, even if Ortiz might have been slightly more productive, I had no issue with the MVP voting.

ROY should be a blanket if you qualify as a rookie, you qualify for the award, rule. At least to me. Arnie, that’s a good point about how the game is changing too.

What I am saying with the M.V.P. voting back in 2005 is there were baseball writers saying that Ortiz didn’t deserve it because he was a D.H. These are the same guys saying that a Japanese player who has pro experience and then coming to the states to play pro ball shouldn’t be considered rookies. They elected 2 of them for rookies of the year in the past and then all of a sudden in 03 they change there mind. It doesn’t make any sense to me then and it doesn’t now.

How could anyone win the M.V.P. of the A.L. in 2005, when they weren’t even the M.V.P. of there own team. Ortiz could play 1b that year in 145 games and commit 20 errors and he would have won it that year.

These also are the same baseball writers that don’t want players to have 100 % of the vote when it comes to the hall of fame.

I’m a life long Sox fan, and I think the world of Ortiz, but DH is too one dimensional, even though he wins so many games for us. MVP should go to someone who plays the whole game (sorry David). Dice K and Oki, your awards will come, but not ROY

If Oritz played 1b in 2005 and let’s say 145 games and if he made 20 errors or 15 or whatever number you want to put there, he would have won the M.V.P. that year. Baseball writers didn’t vote for him because he was a D.H. He got too many second place votes that year. Defense is a big part obviously. How could a guy win the M.V.P. for the league when he wasn’t the M.V.P. of his own team?

I think he was MVP of his own team and warlock is right, being MVP includes being on the field. Who knows how playing first base with however many errors effects Ortiz in a late situation in a game that year. There is so much that goes into playing both sides of the game and Ortiz didn’t do it, so yeah, he should be penalized a little for that. Like I said, if his numbers were overwhelmingly superior, which they weren’t, I’d have no issues.

Just like Cy Young, the baseball writers believe it should go to a starter but in the past a reliever has won the award. M.V.P. is the same way now. It must be a player that plays everyday. In the past that hasn’t been the case but lately it sure has. As I said before they seem to pick and choose on how they want to vote.

I don’t think so at this point, especially now that A-Rod’s team is in contention. Magglio seems to be doing even better in the second half, that one really might come down to who’s team makes the playoffs, if one of theirs doesn’t.

There is little doubt that the M.V.P. right now in the A.L. is either A-Rod or Ordonez. A-Rod gets my vote but Ordonez has had a solid year though. Ordonez hit 2 homers today in the same inning and his team will win the Central.

I have no idea what Peralta was doing. The tribe played Boston and N.Y. at the Jake and lost 6 of 7. They failed there litmus test and I think that team is going to fade soon. Tigers should win the division by 4 games.

I have watched the Tribe play during the year and I think to myself how in the world is this team leading the division? They will fade after this sweep, this series was devastating to that team. They got there lunch handed to them.

Ordonez would probably my current choice for MVP, just because I could never vote for a Yankee (see: A-rod). Awards should also be more position specific. MVP for everyday players, CY Young for best pitcher, maybe upgrade the ” Rolaids” award for best releiver.

I think if I was managing the Red Sox, I would lift the guy who has been the best set up man in the universe all season long. You know, it’s a boost to his confidence, especially after picking up Gagne. Oh yeah, and I might as well bring in the guy I picked up to be a setup man.

I guess that’s why I’m not managing the Red Sox. Maybe Francon shouldn’t be either. He has definitely managed the Sox to more losses than he has wins.

now it’s back to 4 games, and thanks to gagne we have managed to lose 2 out of 3 to the orioles and the yankees have gained 2 games. definitely worth the millions of dollars we are paying in and getting rid of gabbard. definitely worth it.

gagne should never have been in there … you don’t try to give a guy who’s been struggling a chance to gain some confidence when you have a chance to win a game. Now he has screwed with everybody’s psyche. Gagne is even worse off then if he had not pitched at all. Okajima’s wondering why he isn’t finishing that inning anymore. And Snyder now has to feel bad about giving up a walk off in a game he should never have been even close to piching in. Just really horrible decision making. I understand wanting to show confidence in a guy, but Tito could have waited until tomorrow and brought him in to face the Rays with a four run lead in the 9th instead.

A.) Why was Delcarmen not back out for the 10th? He was dominating (read: struck out the side) and didn’t throw that many pitches in the 9th.

B.) Why did Francona not walk the bases load once Tejada was up with 0 outs, men on 1st and 3rd?

C.) After Tejada somehow didn’t get the run home and popped out, why AGAIN didn’t Francona walk the bases loaded so there was a force at every base and a groundball didn’t have to be a do-or-die double play?

D.) What is Kyle Snyder still doing in the game when there is a man on 3rd and less than 2 outs, therefore a power pitcher (ie: that dominant closer we have who has the highest K/9 IP ratio in the majors) is needed.

Papelbon was warming up since the 8th inning. What’s wrong with bringing him in the 10th when a strikeout is absolutely needed? Even if he throws a lot of pitches and gets the Sox out of the jam, who cares if he can’t pitch the 11th? Throw Tavarez out there. Throw anybody out there. It makes ZERO sense to baby Papelbon and only use him in save situations because the way our offense/bullpen are going right now, he’s not going to get the ball on many other nights.

This game was probably more frustrating to me than Friday night’s game because it only further solidifies Gagne’s inability to pitch in any inning besides the 9th. He cruised a 3-2 fastball down the middle of the plate to Tejada!

Adding to a bullpen that was statistically the best in MLB made no sense at the time, and I was one of the people not in favor of this trade. Now Okajima’s ego has to be hurting since he’s no longer the dominant 8th inning, sub-1.00 ERA guy we had for over half of the season. Instead, he has been pushed back to the 7th inning and look at his numbers since then.

I was shocked Delcarmen didn’t give up any runs since his confidence also has to be shot after being an above-average setup man and then basically being thrown into wipeup duty once Gagne joined the Red Sox.

The bottom line is the Red Sox treated Gagne like he was the 2001 Eric Gagne and basically dumped on all of the other character players who helped get them to the best record in baseball.

I still think Gagne has something left in him for this season and I’m not giving up on him. But he should be a 7th inning pitcher, why mess with the Okajima-Papelbon combination? Stop trying to match lefty-lefty, righty-righty in the late innings and go with what has worked.

We all know that Gagne should have never been in there. For some reason Okajima is not the set up guy with this team anymore. Sox offense again had guys on base but no clutch hitting. This team is going south quick. They finish 4-5 on the road trip and the trip ends on a very sour note. Amen that Tampa Bay is coming to Boston for a 3 game series, a sweep MUST happen.

This is feeling like 77′ all over again. Was that ever painful to watch!

The Sox seem to have run out of gas. They have no spark. Sure, they get hits but they consistently have trouble leaving RISP. Combine that with a bullpen that all of a sudden can’t get the job done, we are in in real trouble.

I hope I’m wrong and that things will turn around but it isn’t looking good at this point.

That absolutely needs to happen with the way the Yankees are going. Obviously New York can’t keep this up for the remainder of the season, but the Sox need to have a lead at the end of August when they go to the Bronx for 3 games, and they have to take the series.

I’m still confident that the Red Sox will win the AL East if everything goes the way it has for the majority of the season. That means they can’t cough up 2-run leads in the 8th.

This is an awful display of baseball by the Sox, and management by Francona. Gagne, Francona, Manny Ramirez (who was thrown out at third and would have scored on Drew’s single) and the bats (which continue to disappear after the sixth inning) share the blame for this loss. This should have been a three-game sweep, instead the Sox appear ready to not only give up the AL East, but also the wild card. I’m beginning to dislike Francona more and more as each week passes. No way Gagne should have been brought in. No way should Snyder have been allowed to pitch to Millar (who was 3-for-4 against Snyder) and no way they should not have walked Millar once Markakis stole second base. Sox and Pinstripes readers, and regulars on Brownie Points, know that I am a level-headed and patient fan, but even I think it is time to part ways with Francona, regardless of what happens the remainder of the season. ANd take Gagne while you’re at it. The guy cannot pitch in a pressure situation.

Gange is not worth it to me. Honestly, I would have liked to see Many Del pitch instead of Gagne. (This would have been soo much worse if we traded someone like Ellsbury for Gagne huh?). Honestly, Eric Gagne should pitch (if he must) in the 7th inning. Hideki Okajima has been solid, no, superb as a set up man. He earned the job, and until he goes south, I see no reason to why he isn’t out there in the 8th inning. Its kinds of strange that the man that is being paid little money is performing better than multi-million dollar guy Gagne. Okajima is a crafty left and can fool hitters with his delivery. Gagne has heat, but had no location. I say, until Okajima goes south, it is HIS job to pitch the 8th inning. Since Gagne cant pitch on back-to-back games, you wont see him tomorrow night, and if we have a slim lead, Francona will use Oki. His managing has been very bad over this series. I honestly think he needs to just use common sense and use the guy that has been lights out all year in the 8th inning. Yes, the Yankees are extremely hot and they r just 4 games back, but we just need the sox to perform up to their capability. I say we shouldn’t worry completely about the yankees because they are still 4 games back. We just need to play better baseball, BEAT THE TEAMS WE NEED TO BEAT (Like freaking KC), and we should be fine.

Ouch!!! That one hurt. Gagne needs to get it together, obviously, but he will. Once he settles in he will do fine. I just hope he doesn’t get the automatic “Boooo’s” from the Fenway faithful, any time he takes the mound (see Bob Stanley and the rest…). Buuutt ,, in the meantime,,go back to Oki and Pappi until Eric gets it straightened out. (Patience, patience, patience)

Parting ways with Francona right now is just FOOLISH. He has certainly made some dumb moves recently there is no doubt about that.

When the Sox acquirred Gagne I thought that Okajima would still be the guy in the 8th. I don’t know why they have removed him from his role. Picking up Gagne I thought was a good move and most thought as well but they should not have take Okajima’a role. What kind of thinking is that?

One bright spot to this weekend is Drew with 6 hits in the last 2 games. Perhaps Drew is turning his season around.

forget gagne. obviously he has some issues and any mgr with the least bit of common sense never would’ve put him in that situation AGAIN. two things stick out to me about this game. 1) yet again 3 f@#%$# runs..how many RISP did they leave? 2) once patterson got on in the 10th or at least when it’s 1st and 3rd and no outs what exactly is that idiot ( and that’s being kind ) saving papelbon for. you need strikeouts and he’s statistcally speaking the best K guy in MLB. if they score you don’t get another chance to use him. he did the same thing friday. francona is obviously brain dead. i hate to say it but to me you can see it in their body language and their lack of intensity. they are done. theo will probably give francona a contract ext. they actually deserve each other.

How do you take out the greatest set-up man in baseball, who has earned the trust and confidence of his teammates and fans, for a man who hasn’t earned squat? Not only was it disrespectful to Okajima who has been a godsend to this team, but it was a horrible baseball move. Gagne couldn’t hold a four–run lead on Friday, what makes Tito think he could hold a two-run lead against these feisty birds. Our bullpen was/is set. Del Carmen, Okajima, Papelbon, and in that order to close out a game. Period. It’s been working all season and now this guy ruins everything. He needs to go to AAA and get things right. And I don’t care if that’s the AAA PawSox, or he gets a job planning vacations at the American Automobile Association. He’d probably be more effective at the latter. Yeah he can pitch in Texas where you’re expected to lose and there’s no pressure, but here in Beantown, we demand winners, and there’s pressure that goes along with that. Some guys can handle it and some guys wilt like a dehydrated flower. Gagne reminds me of a Tulip. In L.A., they used to flash “Game Over” every time he came out on the scoreboard. Well what a coincidence, they can do the same thing at Fenway when Gagne sprints out for his usual beatdown. Only this time, the game is over for the home team, not the visitor. Curt pitched his heart out, deserved the win and in seconds, it evaporated with a 3-2 fastball that split the plate in half to Miguel Tejada. Tito, if you’re out there listening, it goes Del Carmen, Okidoke, and Papelbon. Period. Don’t deviate this plan and you might get to keep your job past this season. I leave with this: “Those who who don’t learn from history, are bound to repeat it.”

That’s what I said – wait until after the season to fire him. It’s only natural that discussion would arise about parting ways with Francona during the regular season. He is a player’s manager who is not a very good Xs and Os manager. I think the Sox win in spite of him not because of him. Grady Little made one mistake with keeping Pedro in too long and was fired, even though for the most part he was a good manager. Francona consistently makes puzzling decisions about the starters and relievers. YOu can’t live in the past, Brian, regarding your statement on 2004. True, they did play lifeless baseball in 2004 and then rebounded at the right time. If you focus on the past, you can also point to 1977 and 1978, when they saw leads over the Yankees disappear and never resurface. This team has the pitching, and they have decent hitting, but it does not good to get runners on base if they don’t score, especially in the sixth inning and beyond. I think the bullpen issue is mainly due to Gagne, and it can be remedied by only using Gagne when the Sox are ahead or behind by a large margin, but the issue with the lack of clutch hitting will not be remedied. This team just doesn’t know how to produce when it is behind by a run or two, or when runners are in scoring position in key situations.

This is astonishing! Almost single-handedly(with a little help from Francona) Gagne has thrown the Boston bullpen into disarray. The best bullpen around, too.
Sometimes as a Sox fan you have to throw up your hands and curse the baseball gods. What was Theo thinking?? And why on earth would you put a guy who has given up runs like he’s working for the other side into a close game? Is there some baseball wisdom I am missing here? As my dad would say,”OY GEVALDT!!!” It doesn’t make sense, the whole rythm and cadence of the bullpen has been tossed out the window. What was Snyder, the middle reliever, doing in the game in the bottom 10th? Why take out Oki and put in Gagne? Where is logic and forethought? AARRRGGGHHHH!!!

Ok, I feel better now. Any of you guys ever go out with a woman and you know, in the back of your mind , she’s gonna make you miserable? But you can’t resist? That’s how I feel sometimes about the Sox. I know they are going to fail me. Once in 40 years they have come through. ONCE! But I soldier on, hoping they will overcome their karma and win titles, yes plural, get their fair share of WS championships. I’m still here.

Go SOX!!! You can do it. Throw Gagne off the plane and let’s get this team on the right track. GO GO GO!!

My vote for ROY is Dustin Pedroia. He’s really turned it around and has been an excellent addition to the 2007 Redsox. As far as the Gagne trade? Why would this team mess with the best bullpen in MLB? It was clearly obvious this team needed a powerhitting outfielder for the pennant run. Gabbard would have fit in nicely next year replacing the aging Schilling, who is free to seek his fortune else where next year. Bad trade!!!!

When I start talking about what happened in 2004, I am trying to look at this slide from a positive standpoint.

Why dwell on the negative such as Francona should be fired at the end of the season. Let’s focus on what is going on, or in this team’s case lately what is not going on.

Easy thing to do is when a team starts to slide is point the finger at the manager. Grady Little was not a favorite of owner John Henry, if you read the book ” Feeding The Monster” that was well documented in there. Little was not big on reading scouting reports and that certainly pissed off Henry among others. Of course not pulling Pedro was his demise and his legacy in Boston.

I don’t think Gagne will be in there with a lead late in the game for a while. This team’s lack of clutch hitting scares me the most. That has been this team’s problem the whole year. Guys are constantly on base but almost everytime being stranded. That must change or this team will go absolutely nowhere!!!

bottom line is when you can’t score consistently ( pick a sport ) it ultimately starts to put pressure on every other aspect of your game. pitching, defense, etc.. guys get tight and their play reflects it. gagne was awful this weekend no doubt BUT both times when he came out of the game it was tied and still a winnable situation. this team was just not mentally tough enough to come back and score some more runs. well they certainly had a lil help from francona in losing but the inability to score is the main issue here. it has been all year and there is no indication it’s going to change. this team has too many singles hitters and not enough run producers. i still think there’s a correlation between magadan and that but it’s too late now. don’t worry though kielty should be called up this week!!

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