Talks Between Mariners, Nelson Cruz Are On Hold

FEBRUARY 13: Talks between Cruz and Seattle are on hold, reports Chris Cotillo of MLBDailyDish.com. With disagreement over contract value persisting, the club may be turning its attention to other priorities, says Cotillo.

FEBRUARY 8: It's only "a matter of time" before the Mariners agree to terms with Cruz, industry sources tell Bob Dutton of the Tacoma News Tribune (on Twitter).

FEBRUARY 4: Talks between the Mariners and Nelson Cruz have gotten more serious in the past few days, reports Jon Heyman of CBS Sports. Seattle is believed to be open to offering a two-year deal and could possibly stretch to include an option or even a third guaranteed year, according to Heyman's report. Reports late last week indicated that the Mariners were preparing to make an offer to Cruz and agent Adam Katz of the Wasserman Media Group.

Seattle has the sixth overall selection in the 2014 draft, meaning its first-round pick is protected under Major League Baseball's collective bargaining agreement. The Mariners have also already forfeited their second round pick in signing Robinson Cano to a 10-year, $240MM contract, meaning they'd "only" be looking at forfeiting their Competitive Balance round pick. Seattle won the final pick of Competitive Balance Round B in last summer's Competitive Balance lottery.

The Mariners have been reported as one of Cruz's primary suitors all offseason, though he's been connected to the Orioles heavily at times as well. Recent reports have suggested that he could be a fallback option for the Rangers on a one-year deal or that the Twins could show interest if his price dropped to the point where he fell into their laps (i.e. less than $10MM annually at a maximum of two years).

While that may be true, his numbers are still not great in the ballparks that matter. 80ish home games at a .198 clip (slightly better than Chone Figgins or Brendan Ryan numbers? — pass) A’s at .194 — pass. The others are on par with M’s hitters the last few years but we want to bolster the line up, not make it more average.

He’s also coming off PED suspension which means he’s probably coming off PEDs. Which ultimately means a dip in performance. Almost every player who has gone off them because they got caught, has had pedestrian or sub-par performances post suspension. Does he pose a power threat? Sure he does. But the numbers dont support a whole lot of success outside of Texas.

If Morales could play the outfield, Id much rather have him again — he, like seager, hit in clutch situations more often. One of the reasons I was miffed when we traded Jaso last year. Think of a guy like Smoak, he has power too and had a nice run of bombs last year but a majority of them were solos. He couldnt hit ’em when anyone was standing on a bag. Clutch RBI guys are scarier to face than someone who can go yard on you. That’s what made Edgar such a feared hitter.

He played last year removed from Peds since his name was already linked. You don’t think MLB wasn’t catching his piss every time the urinal cake got wet? He managed 25 hrs in very short time. I think his power is legit, but obviously the stigma will exceed all.

Just 3 former Rangers on the Orioles 40 man roster. Davis, Hunter and O’Day. Davis and Hunter came in the Uehara trade, O’Day off a waiver claim. Bet the Rangers would gladly take all of them back. Davis and his 53 home runs and near MVP season, O’Day and his 2.13 ERA or Hunter and his 2.89 ERA.

Yet another reason why those comp picks are a sham. Any team that can afford $240M salary for an over 30 yo free agent doesn’t know how to build their team right. I really don’t like those comp picks, revenue sharing, fine, it helps to give the lower end teams some more money to spend, but really is unfair to give some teams extra picks. Especially team like the Mariners, or Detroit.

I’d prefer they didn’t sign Cruz AND sent Smoak packing. Having Cruz share an outfield with Morrison/Hart and Ackley would be the worst defensively in the league (or close to it, I’m sure someone has the saber #s). Ackley is fine if you also have Saunders and Guti out there, but if he is the anchor of the defense, no thanks. Prefer they alternate Morrison and Hart at 1B and DH, and stick with Saunders, Guti, Ackley in the OF and have Bloomquist, Almonte, and Morrison/Hart on hand in case of injury, which is likely.

I’d certainly be all for passing on Cruz and dealing Smoak. That would be my preference but if they feel the need to bring in Cruz, I won’t flip out about it as long as its only for 2 years. Cruz/Saunders/Ackley with Guti as the 4th OF would be poor defensively but not nearly as bad as last year. IMO Smoak needs to go no matter what so that Morrison and Hart can play strictly 1B/DH.

Agreed, Cruz/Saunders/Ackley isn’t terrible, but that would require moving Smoak to place either Morrison or Hart at 1B. Looking a little further, DJ Peterson seems to be the future at 1B, creating an even larger challenge if a long term deal is being discussed with Cruz. If Peterson is ready and comes up, Morrison or Hart would likely end up in the outfield, diminishing the defense even more with Cruz out there.

Acquire Dominic Brown, Colby Rasmus, Matt Joyce, or Desmond Jennings w/ a starting pitcher to bolster the Mariners if wanting a shot of winning the division and making the playoffs including the World Series just like what the Seahawks did to earn the Super Bowl win. Will be fun to see Hisashi Iwamura & his Japanese translator to talk at the podium in Safeco Field during the team parade if winning the World Series as you never know for some teams in sports that can surprise on any given days/evenings.

What if they signed Cruz and brought back Morales cheap for 1year amd dealt Smoak?…what would that lineup even look like? Cruz playing RF, Hart and Morrison rotating between 1B and LF, Morales playing there occasionally, when Morales sits, one of the other three could DH. Could be the slowest team in the league

It would look like a terrible outfield defensively, and one that isn’t made up for with offensive production. I agree the M’s need bats and next year’s FA class isn’t lighting anyone’s world on fire, but I would rather get it by trading young talent for a Matt Kemp type, rather than limited skills ala Cruz and Morales. We still don’t know what Morrison and Hart will bring after coming off injuries, I would hate to depend on either in the outfield.

I don’t get why people bring up his numbers in Safeco. Safeco’s fences have been moved in and Cruz won’t have to face all the good pitchers the M’s have had in the past. Yes, his numbers will drop, but so would any other hitter’s they brought in.

Cruz can actually play in the OF… He’s bad at it, but that still makes him much more valuable defensively than Smoak who can’t play in the OF at all. The M’s already have Morrison and Hart anyways so Smoak’s inability to play anything but 1B is a problem. Also not that Cruz is a great hitter, but he is way way better at hitting than Smoak.

Cruz is a pretty bad OF but are you really trying to say that Justin Smoak would be just as good (bad) as Cruz if put in the OF? Seriously? There’s different degrees of bad and while we can all agree that Cruz is very poor defensively, lets not go overboard about how poor. He’s not Raul Ibanez, Mike Morse, Logan Morrison or Justin Smoak in the OF bad.

And it’s not like he was facing Felix and Iwakuma every time they played us here… Think about when we play them there in Arlington, same best pitchers, but he just happens to HIT better there.

If we were run by Beane and this was a moneyball equation, he would not get the amount of discussion he has had.

Being a pitcher friendly park with a spacious outfield, I personally think money/trades would be better spent if we had someone like Span, Bourgeois, Crisp, Gardner, etc… Someone who could field and wont look silly at the plate.

Our SP has been very stellar against Cruz @ Safeco. He won’t be facing Seattle SPs, so I’m sure his numbers will improve at Safeco against our rivals. He’s slaughtered Angels and Astros pitching (@ home and away!) So his success against Boston/Angels/Astros goes way beyond the confines of Arlington.

People do overvalue draft picks. But sacrificing a draft pick for a player on the wrong side of 30 coming off a PED suspension, who K’s a ton, offers little defensively, and will play nearly 3/4ths of his games in stadiums where he’s been terrible throughout his career, I think the gripes are warranted.

Signing Cruz may also prevent the M’s from finding a better outfield option at some point down the road this season.

He’s not going to make the difference between contending and not contending, so why bother?

It’s not just sabermetrics! He’s admittedly sacrificed defense intentionally in the pursuit of power, ignoring even the most basic statistics. Park factors, K’s, contact and zone percentages, etc. Through one ear and out the other!

It’s not just sabermetrics! He’s admittedly sacrificed defense intentionally in the pursuit of power, ignoring even the most basic statistics. Park factors, K’s, contact and zone percentages, etc. Through one ear and out the other!

Amen, Gop5! Everybody knew by all-star break last year that the Mariners would need some bats before the 2014 season…yet here we are. I can only hope Jack Z tried for some smart trades that just fell through.

Morse is a dud. At least Cruz isnt as much of a health risk as Morse is. If Morse didnt have health concerns, I would agree. IMO they are both busts and should not be signed unless its a low risk move.

I hope Stephan Romero makes the team in LF. Michael Saunders has to stand up and hit .270 & 20/20 in RF. Ackley must at least hit .290 and get on base more to take up an outfield position. Guti will play 3-4 times a week for 2 months until he looses a body part. Almonte to fill in every other day. No Cruz. Put the money in a high interest rate bank account. Hart and Lomo to share 1B. Smoak and someone good to Pittsburgh for Gregory Polanco.

LoMo or Hart can play right field w/ Saunders in left and Ackley in centerfield by bringing back Morales for a slight less amount than expected for couple or few years contract (could re-work for higher amount during next off season). Also signing Nelson Cruz or acquiring David Price (Kam Chancellor of baseball as a pitcher) & Desmond Jennings (Richard Sherman of baseball) for James Paxton or Erasmo Ramirez, Tyler Pike, Nick Franklin, Justin Smoak, Julio Morban, and Stefan Romero. After the Seahawks won the Super Bowl, time for the Mariners to bring the World Series to the Pacific Northwest by making some more moves as mentioned to save Jack Z’s job as a GM w/ new team President can learn from Seahawks GM John Schnieder on building a dynamic franchise also in baseball. That will turn 70 wins to somewhere in the 90s for quite a while.

LoMo or Hart can play right field w/ Saunders in left and Ackley in centerfield by bringing back Morales for a slight less amount than expected for couple or few years contract (could re-work for higher amount during next off season). Also signing Nelson Cruz or acquiring David Price (Kam Chancellor of baseball as a pitcher) & Desmond Jennings (Richard Sherman of baseball) for James Paxton or Erasmo Ramirez, Tyler Pike, Nick Franklin, Justin Smoak, Julio Morban, and Stefan Romero. After the Seahawks won the Super Bowl, time for the Mariners to bring the World Series to the Pacific Northwest by making some more moves as mentioned to save Jack Z’s job as a GM w/ new team President can learn from Seahawks GM John Schnieder on building a dynamic franchise also in baseball. That will turn 70 wins to somewhere in the 90s for quite a while.

Would the Rays or Phillies get Mike Fiers w/ a player in a three way trade w/ the Seattle Mariners & Brewers as it will help out those teams each, esp. on big trade for the Mariners to acquire David Price & Desmond Jennings or Matt Joyce or Cliff Lee/Cole Hamels, Papelbon, and Dominic Brown in order to keep up w/ the Super Bowl Championship winner Seahawks making city a major sports town?

The new Mariners President hopefully will become friends w/ Seahawks GM John Schiender by talking to each other about moves the Mariners should be making in order of getting into the playoffs & possibly World Series championship just like from the Super Bowl as the city of Seattle had witnessed including the big parade earlier today.

Hope the new baseball Commish will change the comp pick and the draft format similar to NFL (National Football League) by moving MLB Draft to third week of July that will make sense on trading draft picks & players (also similar to basketball).

If the Mariners offer Cruz 3 years guaranteed it will be a mistake. He brings to much baggage with him: PED suspension, soon to be 34 years old, team must give up a draft pick and his poor defense and power that probably won’t translate to moving from hitter friendly Globe Life Park in Arlington to Safeco. Plus it seems like the Mariners are the ONLY team interested in his services why compete against yourself.

Adding cano, cruz, hart, buck and morrison to a line up with ackley, saunders and seager, I see them with a lineup that can compete (as a Giants fan). They also have a proven ace, which is hard to come by these days. With that being said, the A’s and Rangers will still be a tough task to overcome.

Wow you are low on Smoak. I’d rather have him than Cruz as the DH. I don’t think that Cruz is going to be an upgrade, and I think Smoak is somewhat underrated now.

Smoak is a very incomplete hitter, but so is Cruz. Smoak is in the wrong ballpark, as Cruz was in the ideal park for himself. I think Smoak is a great buy low candidate if you can get him in a park with a short enough fence.

I agree honestly considering they signed Cano to that contract they need supplement his signing with more bats in the lineup and Cruz would make sense seeing as he could DH for them also. In that AL West though its going to be tough for the Mariners though as all the West teams are gonna be good besides the Astros.

Peterson hasn’t played above low A ball and suffered a serious injury that ended his season early in 2014. He’ll be starting this year at High A most likely, but he’s not going to be a factor this year (and probably not next year for that matter). Quit trying to rush players before they’re ready — he was just drafted last June!

I agree with your statement regarding his progression, and can see why my statement above suggests I want him with the big club this season. I just want them to avoid making longer term commitments that simply will just cover them for a season or two. I think it is reasonable that Peterson could see some action as a Sept call up in 2015 and be *The Guy* at 1B going into 2016. Signing Cruz and retaining LoMo, Hart, and Smoak would create issues at that point, and I believe that all but Hart would technically be in the equation at the end of 2015. I would still like to see them trade Smoak, and commit to LoMo and Hart at 1B/DH for at least a couple years to establish some stability, barring injury of course.

Saturday update, it’s only a matter of time… Very curious to see the terms of this apparent deal. After this if they can go get another starter to put behind Felix and Iwakuma, and ahead of Walker, it will be an offseason well done and quite an overhaul.

I shouldn’t have said it was all chance, you’re right. I do however believe that the money they spent only granted them one year despite the big contracts. I’m saying I’m not sure that will happen again.

The M’s need to trade Franklin for a good defensive CF rather than move him off of second, sign another depth piece for the rotation, and pass on Cruz in favor of re-signing Morales. If they do all that they should be in good shape to overtake the Angles for 3rd in the AL West.

It’s time for the Orioles to step up here
Sign Jimenez
Then Sign Cruz or Drew
Then sign Drew or Cruz.
You will notice the difference
Come on Duquette stop horsing around here! =P
Besides let the M’s re-sign Morales!

If Dan Duquette signs Nelson Cruz, he should be fired on the spot for incompetence. Also, why in the world should they burn a pick for a SS when they already have a top 5 SS in Hardy and Manny Machado waiting in the wings?

Well, because Cruz is pretty terrible defensively and the current LF, David Lough, is otherworldly-good defensively. Nelson’s also almost 34 years old, injury-prone, and coming off of a PED suspension. No one even knows if he can still do literally the only thing he does well anymore, hit for power, without his “special vitamins.” And in addition to all of those “pluses,” he also costs a bunch of money and the 17th overall draft pick in a good draft year.
And Drew is totally superfluous. The Orioles already have pretty much the best infield in baseball(top 3 at the very least) with Davis, Flaherty, Hardy, and Machado. There is literally no reason to give up the draft pick for something that isn’t even a need. If they’re going to burn the pick, it might as well be for Santana since they still need another starter, and even then I probably wouldn’t do it.

I am starting to doubt his desire to play in Seattle. He might as well come back to Texas. Sign the one year deal, hit 30+ hr and hope for a three year deal next season. Of course his age doesn’t help matters and everyone is happy to point out he is a PED user and his #’s have been inflated. Quite possible, but no way to truly prove that point. Either way, I wish he would just sign anywhere at this point,

Maybe so but even in short time last year he managed more hr than most of the lineup. And the fact the park plays much differently know has to be factored in. However, I am certainly not going to argue your points,they are all in the -#’s.

that is what I was referring to. So if he was uninterested in 15M, why would he consider 6? And I am sure the Rangers would have him back for that same amount if it came down to it. I’d say no but I am also only writing my own checks and not the Texas Rangers. I’d love to have this guy on a one year deal.

I might think about trading Wandy for Smoak as long as they (the Mariners) foot his bill. He’s not going to bounce back from his arthritis as easily as people think. I’d gamble on Smoak and open a rotation spot for Locke or Cumpston or Taillon, for that matter. Any of those is better than a wounded Wandy.