Note: This is an archived topic. It is read-only. Mothering Boards
Spirituality Archive
reincarnation questions about my son

This topic was originally posted in this forum: Spirituality
Author Topic: reincarnation questions about my son
mamamoon2001
Member posted 07-13-2001 08:39 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I totally believe in reincarnation but I'm a bit confused on when it is that the soul comes into the body. I have read many different ideals on this.
My one year old has me wondering alot. Most women with any sight or intuition say to me that he is an old soul that is trapped in that baby body and I totally see that. He looks at you and you just know that he has been here so many times and he feels so impatient to be here again. And I mean that is usually the first thing out of peoples mouths when they see him.
When he was born his circulation system didn't switch over to being out side of the womb and he was on life support for five days intill it did switch. So many times in the NICU I felt like he was deciding if he really wanted to be here again or not. The night before his little body finally switched I got to hold him for about a half hour in the rocking chair and I said to him you have to decide if you are going to live here or not, we can't go on in this state of not knowing if you are going to live or die, you have people here that love you already but if you don't want o be here that is your choice. Then the next morning when I came in the nurses said that during the night they tried to turn down his O2 and he held his own so it looked like he was going to make it.
The other big question that I have is this. A very dear patient of mine passed away only a month before my son was born. In the NICU I felt him around me a lot and he has appeared to me once about 2 months ago. But sometimes when my son looks at me I totally see this friend/patient in his eyes. How does that work?
Any of you wise ones have any idea?

savvy
Member posted 07-13-2001 06:24 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What a great question.
I struggle with this all the time. Personally, I feel that the soul does not enter the body until quickening happens. When the baby is viable outside the womb(essentially) I think the soul is present. But it is becoming unaware and forgetting the last time around. My baby was a blue baby and feel the same vibe. That she was very comfortable on the spirit side of consciousness and it was hard for her to use those little lungs.
As far as recycled souls-I don't know. I doubt souls return to old acquaintances. I would think they would be born into situations they could learn the most from. Different countries, gender, social and economical brackets...that's my opinion.
-S.

lynn*n
Member posted 07-15-2001 12:07 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
mamamoon,
okay, this is the second time I'm trying to post this reply. I had to re-register for this to work.

That was a very moving story about your son. And you raise some interesting questions. I think that perhaps it is different for everyone. I have heard stories of souls coming in right during birth and stories of souls who come in months before and get bored because they are there too early. I've also heard that if they come in months early, they can come and go until it's time to settle in more permanently (the same soul I mean). So maybe depending on a person's circumstance, then it would be different for everyone. This tends to make more sense to me than saying it has to be one way or another.

I don't know about returning as old acquaintances either. I would say it's possible only because that may be the situation that person needs to be in to learn what he/she is supposed to. But then again, maybe not. I really think all things are possible so I guess I didn't answer your questions.

I'll be interested to hear what other people think.

Peace,
Lynn (formerly known as lynn_n)

Daughter
Member posted 07-15-2001 01:04 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Or maybe it's you that is to learn from your child (former patient/friend?). I get that feeling from all of my daughters, esp. the middle one (whew! that one's especially strong! She told me there was a tornado the other day, and I spent a long time telling her there why there wasn't...lo and behold, next day's paper brings the news that there *was* one!...we *never* get tornadoes out here! She knows other things automatically, too. I think we as adults are just conditioned to tune things out that we can't explain) I don't like to talk about it much because some people will think it's wacko, but I think we don't know all there is to know about this life, so why rule anything out? Why not be open minded? Accept.

ambdkf
Member posted 07-15-2001 08:34 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mamamoon, I got chills reading your post. I went through almost the exact same situation with my daughter.
Her sats began crashing after about 12 hours. She had persistent pulmonary hypertension also. She was not helped by the ventilator and was transferred for ECMO (bypass). Thank goodness she had a contraindication and didn't have that. They put her on O2 and NO. At week three in the NICU she crashed again. They told us she wouldn't make it through the night. I laid my hands on her and told that she had to decide. It was up to her. If she couldn't bare to go on like this we would let her go to just stop her heart (I signed a DNR). If she wanted to stay it was time to turn around, we would be here for her always. Literally, from that moment on she made steady improvement and was off NO and O2 within a couple of days! She is a remarkable child in many ways. When we finally left the hospital (6 weeks after her birth)they told me she would never walk or talk. She was speaking in full sentences at 18 months and runs like the wind! She has incredible insight and I feel so lucky to have her in my life.

Sorry I can't answer the questions about souls, but I had to respond, you are the first person I "know" who has had a similar experience. It is life changing.

Anna

mamamoon2001
Member posted 07-15-2001 09:54 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
anna- you are the first person I know that has gone through the pulmonary hypertenion thing too!!! Was it caused by persistant fetal circulation??? Ours was, as I think most cases. It was really scary for us because we had him at home with a midwife and he seemed ok at first just kinda tired but with in a few hours he was blue and not doing well. We took him to a ped who said she wasn't sure what was wronge with him and wanted him in the hospital she practiced at but I hate that hospital so we took him in our car to a bigger hospital with a well known NICU. In the car on the way there we ran out of O2 and he turned blue and crashed. Luckily we were turning into the ER drive as this happened so I had him out of the car seat and ran him down the hall in my arms before my dh really even knew what was going on, he was parking the car. My little one fortunatly didn't have to go on bypass but they did tell me the first night that it could happen. We only had to stay in the NICU 8 days I can't imagin going on any longer. It is so emotionally exhausting isn't it? It like every day you sit there and wait for them to die or live or just do something other then make their monitors beep. I don't know about you but I totally crashed when I got home and slept for days. The emtionally rollercoaster put me out for a long while. Have you had any children since this one? I know its a freak of nature thing but I'm scared to death at it happening again. What have you learned about causes??? I can't find anything anywhere about it. I was told it could be due to the stress I was under during my pregnancy (my older child was serverly sick, thought he had cancer) I was also told it could have been caused by my blood disorder but that they just don't know why it happened. Did you ever find out a cause? Sorry for all the questions but you are the first person I've met who understands, who gets what that reality and time of my life was like. How long did it take for your child to recover is she delayed at all? It took my son 8 weeks and he is a little delayed physically but not learning delayed though. He will be a year old on friday so all this is really coming back up for me right now. How long did it take you to emotionally heal from the NICU experience? Oh he wants to nurse...email me!!! [email protected]

pina_para_la_nina
Member posted 07-16-2001 07:23 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mamamoon & Anna - your stories are really amazing to me, I'm really glad you shared them and that your babies are doing so well now! I wanted to ask how you felt before the babies were born. I've been told that as newborns their personalities (and souls?) are very much what you'd felt them to be in utero. I'm 30 weeks with my first and I have definite feelings about her personality (and gender - obviously!) seems like her soul already has to be there. I can't imagine that she's soulless now, that seems so sad and weird. Just wanted to throw that out into the discussion.

mamamoon2001
Member posted 07-16-2001 08:04 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
pina para la nina-
Good question, I never really thought much about that intill now. I think that although my pregnancy was this son was physically pretty easy it was an emotional rollercoaster for me. With my first I was so attached to him right from the start, would stay up to talk to him in utero, felt like he could hear my thoughts. I knew he would be a boy and I knew that he would be early, which he was. My midwife even came and checked me on the day I went into labor and told me I was crazy, that I would carry him to term...that night my water broke!
This son was concieved just two weeks after I misscarried so I was still mourning that loss and then trying to be happy about being pregnant. I was very torn emotionally. (we had been trying for 9 months and had two losses so I didn't have a lot of faith this one was going to make it) The early pregnancy was really good. I was really nauseated all the time which actually was reassuring that I we would carry this one to term. But I didn't have that same connection with the fist that is for sure. Then when I was about 5 months along my older son who was 2 1/2 at the time got very sick and we thought he could have lymphoma for over two months we didn't know what he had. At that point I literally took care of my older son and my fabulous midwife took care of me. She saw me every couple of weeks, fed me, held me when I was upset, prayed for my son, reassured me I could get through it all. (her grandson with the same name as my son had lymphoma at the same age they thought my son had it) So really the 5, 6, and 7 months of my pregnancy I kinda missed. Then in my eigth months that very good friend/patient of mine died from a brain tumor so I was going through all that grief. I think I was very detached from my wee one in utero but I don't know if it was because I was so preoccupied or if it was that there was no soul to be attached to. But it was very different from my first sons pregnancy. Once this son was born *I* knew right away that something was wrong with him even though he had a almost perfect apgar. I think the first thing that I said when he came out was "what is wrong with him".
In the NICU I had constant dialogs with him and felt his soul then. Felt like he could hear my thought, felt all that stuff like my first one in utero.
Very good question, I think I will be thinking about a lot today.

ambdkf
Member posted 07-16-2001 12:34 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
pina_para_la_nina:
That is an interesting question. For me it was my first pregnancy. It was a good one. She was a bit over a week late and my midwife was starting to hassle. I took a long bath and tried to connect to her, tell her it was ok to come. I felt her reluctance, but didn't understand it at the time. I just told her we would be here for her that her life would be full of love and happiness. That night I went into labor. Those words haunted me while she was in the NICU. I felt I had betrayed and lied to her. That is what led me to the letting go conversation. I wanted it to be about her and her needs, not my desires. Thankfully, she choose to stay.
Good luck with your birth, your strong connection now will serve you both well!!! Anna

madison
Member posted 07-17-2001 05:16 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What a scary but amazing story, mamamoon!
I've heard and read many differing opinions on when the soul enters the body. Some say before conception, some say immediately at conception, some say midway through the pregnancy, some say during labor & birth. MY opinion is... all of the above.

Do I think it's possible that your friend soul could have incarnated into your son? Absolutely. Was your friend ill? Is that why he passed away? If that is so, I see no reason why that friend's soul couldn't have been in & out of body while sleeping/unconscious etc and gone to check out the fetus you were growing as a possible future body?! If there wasn't another soul attached firmly to it, it's fair game, I guess (and even if there was, there's no reason why the two souls couldn't have negotiated over it or consulted God about who could have it).

So your friend could have been in one body and been scoping out his next one That would explain why you see him in both sets of eyes.

A months' break between lives might seem like a quick switch, but that is another big question mark, isn't it? Do we immediately incarnate after death? Wait a month? Wait 5 years? Wait 20 or 50 or 200 years? Some people argue so. I think that varies, too. Then again, what is time? To an eternal soul, does time exist on the spiritual plane or not? Is a thousand years like a day and a day like a thousand years? Who knows? So few remember and those who do have different opinions!

Hope this helps.

By the way, I totally think that what you told/asked your son was very respectful - treating him with the respect you would give to any adult, by giving him the power to make his own choices while affirming that you would love him regardless of his choices or circumstances.

mamamoon2001
Member posted 07-17-2001 10:46 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Madison to answer your question, Yes this friend of mine was a patient of mine who had a number of illness, including a brain tumor. He died at the age of 25. He was such an amazing person. He came to the nursing home that I worked at because his diabetes was unmanagable. We all thought we would get him under control again and he would be on his way but soon after his admission he started having horrible headaches and throwing up blood. He learned his stomach was no longer processing food properly and he had abrain tumor that although wasn't "cancer" it was growing at a rapid rate and in a dangerous area of the brain. SO it might have well been cancer. He had a round of radiation that did help the tumor but given his diabetic state and his stomach problem the radiation almost killed him. It was successful for a bit but the tumor started growing again. The big twist in all of this is that he really wanted to marry his girlfriend but had been waiting intill he was well to do it. After he learned that either the tumor or the treatment was going to end his life he decided he wanted to marry her anyway. So that is where I came into the picture. I was the activity assistant at this facility and had spent a lot of time with this patient because my DH went to school with him and he was so younge being in a nursing home. So I made some calls and before I knew it the news media was involved and we had calls pooring in for wedding donation. We ended up planning the whole wedding on donation including two different honeymoons, one being an all paid for trip to DisneyLand. And I mean this wedding would have cost at least $10,000 limo's, tuxes, cakes, live music, photography, videography everything completly on donation! He was really so happy that the community got so behind him on this. The articles ran in newspapers all over the country. This brought him so much joy and hope, and I think it let him know that it was ok to hope that he might live to actually be in this wedding and marraige. Sadly though he died two weeks before the wedding and never got to live out his dream. The biggest irony in all of it was that he died from an infection that went septic, it wasn't even the brain tumor in the end that killed him. And he died with in hours of feeling ill. We always felt that at least with the tumor we would know it would be coming because the headaches and confusion would return. It was really hard to explain to people that I was suprised that a terminally ill person had passed away. But I really was shocked!
His life was so hard, foster kid, always sick, very poor, his mom was involved with drugs.
He and I became so close and he was so excited about the pregnancy. I lost a baby while he was a patient of mine and the hardest person for me to tell was him because he was sooo excited. My son now, he was just estatic about and he often told me I needed to slow down given that I was 7 and 8 months pregnant during all this wedding media blitz.
Sorry madison, I guess I got a little long winded but that is the background that I have with him.

pina_para_la_nina
Member posted 07-18-2001 08:39 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I just wanted to say - what an incredible and moving story. Wow, you had your hands full for a while there, with losing this friend (as you were helping him plan for an amazing dream and seeing so much love pour out of people in support of it) then to have struggles of your own in the NICU. Whether or not it is your friend's soul back inside your son, I think you are so blessed to have met him (as was he, to have known you!) and he couldn't have picked a better person to stick around for, nor could a son have a more wonderful mom.