Really doesn't matter what we think--EVERYTHING about boot selection comes down to fit (assuming good starting quality of manufacturer). Koflach makes great boots. The Vertical is slightly stiffer, but both are slightly softer than the Scarpa Vegas (Invernos). You will hear some people saying that Scarpa are for wide feet, Koflach for medium, and Lowa for narrow, but I find the toe box on Koflach to be the widest. It is really moot, because peoples foots get wide in different places. We all have had good and bad experiences with boots, so it really does not matter what someones favorite currently is...so:

Go find yourself a knowledgable boot fitter--one with several different brands to try on. Make sure they are worth their salt when sizing the shell--if they don't know how to do that, then you have the wrong fitter. After purchase and you have worn the boot for a few hours to see about hot spots, you can have them slightly heat the shell and push out necessary zones. They should know how to shim the liner to be able to adjust for heel and ankle slippage.

When fitting the boot, bring in any custom footbeds that you use (they are worth the money) as well as the particular sock combination that you use because this will also affect the fit. Size it at the end of the day or after a hike. Let the fitter know what your intentions for the boot are; ie: altitude climbing, vertical ice, large slogging, etc.

Make sure that it will achieve your objectives adequately--such as enough support fully laced for vertical and unlaced upper/inner for approaches and still be O.K. comfort wise.

I have sooooo many boots that I now think suck that I fit boots in the store for HOURS.

Good luck--propper fit is everything.

(All things being equal, I still think leathers are better including expeditions...)

something to note w/ koflach. the degre and arctis expe (yellow) shells are very similar, but the liner in the expe is much warmer. i've used expes for several years and have been very happy with them. but again, as mentioned, fit is everything. custom liners can be purty cool and help mucho too.

i just recently got a pair of la sportiva nepal top extremes after holding out for a couple of years. i think this is going to be my ice boot this year. but... i do prefer plastics for longer trips.

like mr. davis, i have too many boots. but the koflach are a good choice, imho.

I've used degres for a couple of trips up Rainier. They're
a no nonsense, insulated-enough, not-too-rigid boot. On
one occasion, I twisted my ankle, and the degre made a nice
splint for the hike out. With that in mind, I used them
for the approach the next time. They'll work for that, but
should'nt be your first choice. (it does eliminate 5+ pounds from your pack, which is good.)
There is currently a guy on ebay selling arctis expeditions
brand new for $279. That's an awsome price for those, and if you planned to ever climb anyplace cold, it would be a
good choice. Koflach boots have a really good fit. For mail
order, use your regular street shoe size. Happy slogging.

Really doesn't matter what we think--EVERYTHING about boot selection comes down to fit (assuming good starting quality of manufacturer). Koflach makes great boots. The Vertical is slightly stiffer, but both are slightly softer than the Scarpa Vegas (Invernos). You will hear some people saying that Scarpa are for wide feet, Koflach for medium, and Lowa for narrow, but I find the toe box on Koflach to be the widest. It is really moot, because peoples foots get wide in different places. We all have had good and bad experiences with boots, so it really does not matter what someones favorite currently is...so:

Go find yourself a knowledgable boot fitter--one with several different brands to try on. Make sure they are worth their salt when sizing the shell--if they don't know how to do that, then you have the wrong fitter. After purchase and you have worn the boot for a few hours to see about hot spots, you can have them slightly heat the shell and push out necessary zones. They should know how to shim the liner to be able to adjust for heel and ankle slippage.

When fitting the boot, bring in any custom footbeds that you use (they are worth the money) as well as the particular sock combination that you use because this will also affect the fit. Size it at the end of the day or after a hike. Let the fitter know what your intentions for the boot are; ie: altitude climbing, vertical ice, large slogging, etc.

Make sure that it will achieve your objectives adequately--such as enough support fully laced for vertical and unlaced upper/inner for approaches and still be O.K. comfort wise.

I have sooooo many boots that I now think suck that I fit boots in the store for HOURS.

Good luck--propper fit is everything.

(All things being equal, I still think leathers are better including expeditions...)
All things are certainly NOT equal, pal. Ever spent a night out without a sleeping bag at 40 below in leather boots? If you have, you had to have your feet cut off later. Plastic is the modern material for cold climates. Leather is nice in the lower 48 for 3 seasons.

So just how do you determine the best fit for a plastic boot. I've been to a number of stores trying to find the right Koflach degree and the advice I've received has varied greatly. Some say to fit the inner boot like you would a city shoe and to place your sockfoot in the plastic boot to check for a fingers width at the back of the heel. Others say streetshoe size, still others say ALWAYS get a size larger than street and use inserts to adjust. So far the most credible advice I've received was to make sure the toes never bump the front when going downhill. The solution was to size up to a US men's 7 (EU 6.5) even though my city shoe is U.S. women's 7.5. The inner boot is about a half inch longer than my foot. To solve the extreme heel lift I was told to put two foot beds in the plastic boot, one in the liner boot, and use ankle pads if necessary. A good friend thinks it's extreme to have to make so many adjustments to a boot obviously too large for my foot. Any tips? Also, I've heard the shell sizes only change every few sizes--any specifics?

Thanks

Quote:

Really doesn't matter what we think--EVERYTHING about boot selection comes down to fit (assuming good starting quality of manufacturer). Koflach makes great boots. The Vertical is slightly stiffer, but both are slightly softer than the Scarpa Vegas (Invernos). You will hear some people saying that Scarpa are for wide feet, Koflach for medium, and Lowa for narrow, but I find the toe box on Koflach to be the widest. It is really moot, because peoples foots get wide in different places. We all have had good and bad experiences with boots, so it really does not matter what someones favorite currently is...so:

Go find yourself a knowledgable boot fitter--one with several different brands to try on. Make sure they are worth their salt when sizing the shell--if they don't know how to do that, then you have the wrong fitter. After purchase and you have worn the boot for a few hours to see about hot spots, you can have them slightly heat the shell and push out necessary zones. They should know how to shim the liner to be able to adjust for heel and ankle slippage.

When fitting the boot, bring in any custom footbeds that you use (they are worth the money) as well as the particular sock combination that you use because this will also affect the fit. Size it at the end of the day or after a hike. Let the fitter know what your intentions for the boot are; ie: altitude climbing, vertical ice, large slogging, etc.

Make sure that it will achieve your objectives adequately--such as enough support fully laced for vertical and unlaced upper/inner for approaches and still be O.K. comfort wise.

I have sooooo many boots that I now think suck that I fit boots in the store for HOURS.

Good luck--propper fit is everything.

(All things being equal, I still think leathers are better including expeditions...)

I'm looking for a nice set of plastic boots for general mountaineering -- about everything except vertical ice. Koflach Degres seem pretty good. What do you folks think?

I think Nisi has hit the nail on the head! If the liners must be elaborately adjusted, but the shell fits, it MUST mean that the shell size does not always change when the liner size changes. You would need to find out what sizes the shell changes at, and try that size and the one below it to get the closest possible fit before making any adjustments. If anybody has a clue, please let me know.