This is a discussion on AK late in tournament? within the online poker forums, in the Tournament Poker section; Last night I was in a tournament and I was dealt AK. This was fairly late in the tournament about 5 spots from the money.

Last night I was in a tournament and I was dealt AK. This was fairly late in the tournament about 5 spots from the money. I raised it up some and the big stack at the table put me all in after. I folded because I didnt want to risk my stack on a draw. A few hands later I got the same thing AK. I raised it up again and the same thing happened. A big stack put me all in. Only this time the guy that put me all in was doing this thing a lot. So i called and he ended up with QQ. Needless to say he won the pot and I was eliminated from the tournament 3 spots from the money. Any advice as to what to do in these situations?

If you aren't there to gamble and are always cautious.. some people are going to take notice everytime. Sometimes you have to take a chance on a coin flip.. you are out to win, not make the bubble and/or be overly cautious just because someone re-raised you.

Yes granted A,K is over rated but there are/will be times you are going to have to chance a coin toss.

#3

4th August 2006, 8:55 PM

geno9 [6]

Online Poker at: fulltilt

Game: holdem

its always best to play your hands the same way all the time, if you raise with AK early, do it all the time .. no matter how many spots you are away from the money or anything .. good players will pick up on tendecies so its best to clear out the field with AK and if someone comes over the top than its up to you if you know your beat or not to call or fold but its important to play the same way throughout the tourney .. players that play super tight late with only a few spots away from the money prolly wont make it

#4

5th August 2006, 12:04 AM

PreciousLor [54]

Poker at: Doyles Room

Game: holdem

Keep a close eye on how much you raise this far into a tourney (ie make it less painful to get away from).

Also, certainly dont be afraid to go out on the bubble, ie maybe you should have called first time around.

Also, On the second reraise over the top of you, you'd have to think he would be less likely to be pulling a move on you 2nd time around.

#5

5th August 2006, 4:25 AM

imovelines [16]

Online Poker at: Absolute

Game: Holdem

re: Poker & AK late in tournament?

AK is always tough, just like all non pairs, if you don't hit it its most likely trash. Thats why I hate being all in preflop with anything besides a big pair. Not sure if I agree with geno9. He says "its always best to play your hands the same way all the time..." then the next sentence is: "good players will pick up on tendencies..." Not sure you want to do the same thing everytime if people are gonna pick up on it. Not trying to call anyone out, just a litlte confused.

IML

#6

6th August 2006, 6:28 PM

CueMaster71 [30]

Poker at: Blue Square

Game: Holdem

"Slightly" off-topic, but I read a strategy for playing AK in one of the Harrington books. He said instead of raising, just limp, and when someone raises after you, re-raise them big. This way, you're representing either AA or KK. If he folds, great, if he calls and either A or K comes on the flop, he'll be terrified you've hit trips.

After reading it I tried it out a few times with mixed but mostly successful results. On the times when no-one raised me, I had a fairly well disguised hand when I hit the flop, and got out cheaply when I didn't hit it. When I got raised, mostly the other player folded to my re-raise, but when I got looked up it then usually came down to the coin-toss of AK against small pair.

#7

6th August 2006, 6:36 PM

stretch833 [128]

Online Poker at: party, titan

Game: holdem

Good info, CueMaster. AK is a tough one to play, but sometimes you just gotta go with your gut. My gut normally tells me wrong, so I'm trying to sponge info from these forums.

#8

6th August 2006, 6:48 PM

twizzybop [2,258]

Game: holdem

Note: Opponent limps in with a top ten pre flop hand while letting others limp in behind him. Afraid to play a top ten hand aggresively.Oops can't forget the note of opponent mini raises top ten pre-flop hand.

Never understood that strategy.. Let my opponents get a free chance to hit a hand instead of making my opponents pay to hit a hand. This way you let opponents hit thier hand, you get out cheap cause 4 other opponents limped compared to raising pre-flop and taking the pot down or heads up vs 1 opponent.

#9

6th August 2006, 8:01 PM

CueMaster71 [30]

Online Poker at: Blue Square

Game: Holdem

I agree with you Twizzy, you shouldn't give free cards to limpers when you're holding a big hand, but I think this strategy is meant to be used on fairly loose tables where you're pretty sure you'll get a raiser behind you, giving you a chance to represent a much bigger hand than you have. If you're up against rocks, then raising would always be better - after all, a tight player isn't going to call your AK re-raise unless he's beating you already.

#10

7th August 2006, 4:59 AM

twizzybop [2,258]

Game: holdem

re: Poker & AK late in tournament?

If it is fairly loose, one must think that if you limp, next guy raises, guy after hm re-raises. Which now you must make a decision to call/fold or re-raise which more then likely will become a push. So it wouldn't really matter if you limped or raised cause more then likely they will be re-raising anyway. Then again if they are fairly loose they all might be limping with anything cause they rather see a flop with the any 2 cards can win mentality.

#11

7th August 2006, 5:56 AM

10Ace [24]

Online Poker at: too many

Game: All

Late in a tourney on the bubble, if your goal is to make the money I would say dont play a hand at all unless you are forced all in or have AA. But if your goal is to win then going allin with AK against a big stack thats pushing the table around is a good move

#12

7th August 2006, 1:23 PM

Ronaldadio [1,759]

Poker at: Party Poker

Game: Omaha Hi/ lo

Fold anything - depending on the situation

Hi guys, I`ve got a bit of an angle on this.

I`ve been playing 6 months or so and I go back to the first tourny when I `nearly` got into the money.

It was something like top 10 paid, 14 players left.

I was in 11th I think. I can`t remember the exact chip count, but it was something like blinds 800/1600, I was on about 5400 chips, shortstack on 2800, chip leader 60000. The blinds had just passed me and the shortstack on the other table was gonna be hit by the blinds next hand.

Folded around to me, only the button and blinds to act. I was delt QQ, went all in. Chip leader was on button, he called, blinds folded. Chip leader turned over TT. I was ahead, but, he hit T on flop and T on river - OUT!!!

So to bring it back to my point. One of Sklanskys books tells you that sometimes it is correct to fold pocket Aces. The above example was one of those times because

I was probably never going to win the tourny.

If I had won I would have `leapt` into 10th place.

finishing 10th would have given me about 3 times my initial stake back in prize money.

So going back to your example, I know its hard but sometimes u gotta look at your position, be realistic, decide what u want out of it, then don`t be embarrased to fold - no one knows what you folded!!!

As an add on to this, I was in a MTT 2 days ago, just out of the money on Titan (paid 60 and I was 63 out of 65) On bb I am delt KK with the chip leader limping behind me. Flop 4,7,A rainbow. Chip leaded raises 2 x bb, I fold. He shows me pocket AA giving him trips!!! Result. I ended up a respectable 20th out of 455, getting a prize the equivelent of 4 times my buy in.

"One of Sklanskys books tells you that sometimes it is correct to fold pocket Aces"

Hope you are not talking pre-flop here as your thread is about pre-flop or have i misread it.

You won´t win a tourny thinking negative. Always be +ve

#14

7th August 2006, 4:26 PM

Ronaldadio [1,759]

Poker at: Party Poker

Game: Omaha Hi/ lo

Yes there is!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by withawedge

"One of Sklanskys books tells you that sometimes it is correct to fold pocket Aces"

Hope you are not talking pre-flop here as your thread is about pre-flop or have i misread it.

You won´t win a tourny thinking negative. Always be +ve

There is a section on it in Sklanskys Tourny play for advanced players.

He give an example of how it could be the right idea. I`ll quote it work for word if no one else has it to hand.

#15

7th August 2006, 9:38 PM

CueMaster71 [30]

Online Poker at: Blue Square

Game: Holdem

re: Poker & AK late in tournament?

Harrington makes comment on it as well. He says if you're in a satellite, where there's X number of qualifying places and no difference between finishing 1st or Xth, then folding AA pre-flop is the right thing to do if you're almost into the pay-out places and there are much shorter stacks than yours.

I guess exactly the same applies if you "only" want to make the money, you just need to keep folding until the much shorter stacks are eliminated. It's a negative attitude, but if winning back your buy-in plus a little bit more is your intention, then it's a viable strategy.

I`m at work, so this is from memory. Sklansky says, as an extreme example:-

"If u were at the WSOP final table (I wish) 1st prize was $1.5m, 2nd was $700k, 3rd was $400k, 4th was $150k.
U r in second place with 50000 chips, 3rd and 4th have about 25000 chips each, the chip leader has 200000 chips.
U r delt AA. U r first to act. He suggests u could fold because

The chip leader can call and take you out hitting trips, straight, flush, etc.

On top of this, because the pot odds are there, one of the short stacks might call, reducing your winning chances.

Effectivley, one or both of the other two guys behind you sit and watch u go out and move up $250k and $550k. U lose $550k.

That is roughly how it goes. Two points I would make

Mr Sklansky is a more experienced player than me, so I won`t argue - in the scenario above I agree.

Some of us might have seen AA pre flop busted?

I also disagree that this is a negative move. If someone said to me "I`ll guarentee u $100k now, or, on one throw of a dice, if u hit a six I will give u $300k" I would thank him for the $100k and go book a holiday!!!

I would argue than rather than it being negative, it is sensible!!!

Ronaldadio

#18

9th August 2006, 7:31 PM

CueMaster71 [30]

Poker at: Blue Square

Game: Holdem

But what if he offered you $600 for a six?

#19

10th August 2006, 4:14 AM

Dingodaddy23 [497]

Online Poker at: PartyPoker

Game: hold'em

"its always best to play your hands the same way all the time, if you raise with AK early, do it all the time .. no matter how many spots you are away from the money or anything .. good players will pick up on tendecies so its best to clear out the field with AK and if someone comes over the top than its up to you if you know your beat or not to call or fold but its important to play the same way throughout the tourney .. players that play super tight late with only a few spots away from the money prolly wont make it"

worst advice ever

#20

12th August 2006, 12:04 AM

CueMaster71 [30]

Poker at: Blue Square

Game: Holdem

re: Poker & AK late in tournament?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dingodaddy23

"its always best to play your hands the same way all the time, if you raise with AK early, do it all the time .. no matter how many spots you are away from the money or anything .. good players will pick up on tendecies so its best to clear out the field with AK and if someone comes over the top than its up to you if you know your beat or not to call or fold but its important to play the same way throughout the tourney .. players that play super tight late with only a few spots away from the money prolly wont make it"

worst advice ever

Definitely - especially the "it's important to play the same way throughout the tourney" bit. You MUST vary your plays with the same hole cards so that other players can't easily put you on a hand.