I don't think it's NH's genius that has allowed Melancon to all of a sudden thrive in an eigth inning role in Pittsburgh while Hanrahan sucks in Boston. Hanrahan was coming off consecutive all star seasons, melancon was definitely a question mark....from an outsider perspective they traded a sure thing for a question mark to save a couple million dollars. The other parts of that deal are complete garbage, it's only a good looking trade cause Hanrahan wilted in Boston.

ulf wrote:His "genius" obviously didn't allow him to thrive, but I think he (or his scouts if you're hellbent on giving him zero credit) deserve some credit for seeing it coming no?

A hanrahan fail or a melancon revival? I'll give him credit for taking melancon off Boston's hands and join the Athletics in the Boston asset giveaway. I think my criticism is targeted more towards ownership for obvioulsy putting an impetus on dumping hanrahan.

I said it when we traded him.. Hanrahans walk numbers and other stats showed he was due to regress. He was very lucky last year to get as many saves as he did with only blowing a few. I don't see how it is some surefire thing that he would have succeeded here this year either. We got another reliever who is outperforming him for much cheaper (who as TL pointed out we have for 3 more years). Sands is a turd but Pimentel has some upside.

I've said it then and now, anyone that has remote closer stuff will work in Pittsburgh. There is no pressure on you there. Whether you save or blow the save, the team is either going to fulfill everyone's expectations of the Pirates doing nothing or the Pirates are going to break .500 and still be irrelevant. The Pirates have had competent closers for the past decade+ and done nothing. Is it Pirates' genius in dumping guys in their mid to late 20s just before they collapse or the addition of actual pressure that causes every one of these guys that work in Pittsburgh but fail other places?

Idoit40fans wrote:I've said it then and now, anyone that has remote closer stuff will work in Pittsburgh. There is no pressure on you there. Whether you save or blow the save, the team is either going to fulfill everyone's expectations of the Pirates doing nothing or the Pirates are going to break .500 and still be irrelevant. The Pirates have had competent closers for the past decade+ and done nothing. Is it Pirates' genius in dumping guys in their mid to late 20s just before they collapse or the addition of actual pressure that causes every one of these guys that work in Pittsburgh but fail other places?

It's because it isn't that hard to find a decent closer and relievers tend to have short shelf lives.

I felt Melancon would bounce back but still thought they could have gotten something else out of the trade. Pimentel has started ok, but lots of walks, he looks more like a reliever to me if he pans out.

Idoit40fans wrote:I've said it then and now, anyone that has remote closer stuff will work in Pittsburgh. There is no pressure on you there. Whether you save or blow the save, the team is either going to fulfill everyone's expectations of the Pirates doing nothing or the Pirates are going to break .500 and still be irrelevant.

This. Some guys can't perform in certain cities, and that gets magnified if you're a closer.

I'm trying to figure out who all these closers are that the Pirates have had that have failed miserably elsewhere.

2002/03- Mike Williams (fell apart in 2003 with Pittsburgh, out of baseball after that year, the poster child for why you shouldn't wait too long to trade a closer)2004/05- Jose Mesa (successful closer before Pirates, was good in 2004, struggled in 2005 but refused a trade, pitched decently in Colorado at age 40 before a terrible 2007 season)2006- Mike Gonzalez (traded to Atlanta, suffered an elbow injury, had a 2.42 ERA in 2009 and has since kicked around as a LOOGY)2007/09- Matt Capps (was horrible in 2009, ended up redeeming himself in Washington after being non-tendered by the Pirates before getting traded to Minnesota)2010- Octavio Dotel (traded to LA where he pitched well, then pitched well for 3 more seasons but may be done this year)2011/12- Joel Hanrahan

So far the set of closers who were great in Pittsburgh but terrible everywhere else is at 1 with Hanrahan. Gonzalez ended up geting hurt; a few others continued to pitch well elsewhere and 1 wasn't wanted by anyone else. The reason why the Pirates have generally had good closers is because it isn't that hard for a reliever to catch lightning in a bottle for a year, and even the worst teams will have at least 30 save opportunities if not more.

Hanrahan, Gonzalez, Mesa(whose career was going to be over until he came to Pittsburgh) off the top of my head. I guess Dotel is bouncing around the league still? I think Capps had an inflated ERA before leaving but was an effective closer, not sure what he is doing now. Mike Williams was never good, and he was the Pirates closer for basically half a decade before his career abruptly ended. That takes us back through a good portion of this streak of losing seasons.

Idoit40fans wrote:Hanrahan, Gonzalez, Mesa(whose career was going to be over until he came to Pittsburgh) off the top of my head. I guess Dotel is bouncing around the league still? I think Capps had an inflated ERA before leaving but was an effective closer, not sure what he is doing now. Mike Williams was never good, and he was the Pirates closer for basically half a decade before his career abruptly ended. That takes us back through a good portion of this streak of losing seasons.

Man, it's a shame no one has gone back and chronicled a list of Pirates closers over the last 10 years in this thread and what they did when they left Pittsburgh.

Ten percent of closers are dominant pitchers who can pitch anywhere, anytime, and still be great. Twenty percent are dominant on the right team, but can't handle being in a different team or in a higher pressure situation. Seventy percent are good pitchers who have the opportunity to close and are inconsistent over their career. That's my basic feeling anyway.