I think they should have called the series Guerrilla Recordings instead of Road Tapes.

Don't agree. That would have been another colurful but ultimately misleading title like the Joe's ...age series. And "Guerilla recordings" is an expression Frank coined in the Eighties. Why should that be stuck to older tapes? Road Tapes is neutral and gives the promise of a more systematic approach, less based on taste and whimsy than the other ZFT series.

But you're entitled to an opinion, so let's not waste time on a utopian discussion.

We all hate musictoday - this time mine came on time, but I have had covgers messed up because of their cheap-shit packaging, I want to get the ZFT issues from the ZFT but it is almost like you are penalized if you do.

All reports I've read with regards the length of delivery time to UK-Europe-Internationally have been along these lines i.e. approximately 1 month to fulfil; dismaying for myself, considering I waited to see if could pick up a copy at the recent ZPZ tour, and, therefore, did not place an order with Barfko until approximately 19/11/12 (when it turned out these had sold out by the concert date I attended)- think I actually received confirmation of shipment on the 21/11/12 so I might be considered fortunate to receive mine before Christmas- and, echoing everyone else, is incredibly scandalous at lofty price/s charged...polydigm alluded to doing this few days back but it might be worth registering complaints- individually-collectively- to see if can get this changed (or, at very least, make it known we're not happy with the quality of service being employed)?

2bh, from the Barfko pricing foundation, with shipping and/or import fees (that would be incurred by standard consumer; UK at least) factored on top, then with some room for profit also considered, their prices aren't too unfair IMO. Of course, the resultant item costs are still relatively lofty; I've only placed one order with G & S to date- for Buffalo, which never seems to pop up for resale, and, the, at the time, new Carnegie Hall- and I generally lie in wait for the opportunistic, more frugal second hand deal to surface (on Ebay or wherever). Oh, and the obvious advantage to opting for G & S, particularly if you're in the UK, is the sharp delivery speed.

I know I've said this already but all the hate messages for MusicToday within the last page or two have stirred me up again. My order for this was in very early. It SHIPPED on Nov 6th. How come it's STILL NOT HERE??? In this day and age that's just fucking ridiculous.

I suppose with G&S I could at least rely on better postage times.

_________________The way I see it Barry, this should be a very dynamite show.

shipping date is the day they 'print' the shipping label - watch me now i'm gonna print the label [to file], no actual printer is fired up until a few more dozen or so geographicaly similar orders accumulate, then batch-printed, and after a few more days, bundle up several pallets to get a deep discount on their own wholeale pick-up & shipping rates, increasing their whack on the already inflated shipping prices, the classic double-dip

frank's shipping cost of $1.50 in 1981 is ~$3.82 in 2012; musictoday's $4 is within 5% frank's product cost of $18.98 in 1981 should be ~$48.30 in 2012 ... it's only $15 from musictoday

wtf ¿ ya live thousands/hundreds of miles away, if it takes a few xtra weeks, who gives a fuck anyway

wtf ¿ ya live thousands/hundreds of miles away, if it takes a few xtra weeks, who gives a fuck anyway

You are kidding aren't you?? I'm making comparisons with other businesses today, in the same environment. Bookdepository, CD Universe, Amazon and so on, all charge way less post and their stuff gets here generally in less than two weeks. I've even had dealings with individuals who aren't big business at all, like a guy in the US who sold me a copy of an arrangement of Strictly Genteel whose delivery was cheap and swift.

Music Today is a joke, I just hope Gail, now that she's dealing with the likes of UME, realises how crap they are and ditches them for a better deal for everyone.

_________________The way I see it Barry, this should be a very dynamite show.

Last edited by polydigm on Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I never understood why they even use Music Today, I mean the volume can't be that much. Gail and Diva could pack a few envelopes each day and take them down the post office - it would do them good to be more hands on and no profits to split with MT.

Long distance phone charges cost a lot more in 1980 than they do now too. Comparing shipping charges from 1980 (when the post office had no competition and less technology) to today is ridiculous.

I live in Canada in a city of over a million people. Every other music company in the universe can mail me a single CD and charge me about five bucks for shipping and have it get here in roughly a week.

Music Today charges me $12.70 to ship a single CD and it takes at least three weeks to get here. And that's not counting the times (at least three or four) that I haven't gotten it at all and they've had to resend.*

*Actual quote from Music Today employee: "Well, if we continue to have this problem we are just going to have to stop shipping to you."

As previously stated (more than once), if I could order FZ product from anywhere else in North America, I would do so, no questions asked.

It's always been curious to me, also, how the odd ZFT title 'leaks out' into the wider competitive market and can be gotten at more reasonable prices- on Amazon for example-, as far as I'm aware/have periodically paid attention to (one that springs to mind is 'Wazoo'; another, at least recently, probably being the Mofo 2 disc set)...guess it could be a simple case of relative demand (both of those are probably quite popular).

Can't agree more on MusicToday's (international) shipping though- it's truly amazing that they can get away with such backwards, scandalous services/service prices in the current delivery competitive environment...I can only fathom, off the top of my head, that they offer lower distribution rates to their clients at the expense of the ultimate customer in inflated shipping charges?

The crux of the biscuit. They probably still send by actual ship. A long time ago that was much cheaper ... slower ... but cheaper. Not any more, these days it loses both ways and they are way behind the times.

_________________The way I see it Barry, this should be a very dynamite show.

The crux of the biscuit. They probably still send by actual ship. A long time ago that was much cheaper ... slower ... but cheaper. Not any more, these days it loses both ways and they are way behind the times.

Wouldn't surprise me either 2bh.

I can't be bothered looking into it in any more detail atm but I just confirmed, from my shipping confirmation, that the actual courier used was UPS- UPS Mail Innovations International; the tracking number link, despite not corresponding to any tracking info, does take you to UPS site-, so presumably that's whom MusicToday actually ship via?

Again, I'm not too informed with regards such but, broadly, my understanding is that these more 'premium' and/or private delivery businesses- DHL, FEDEX spring to mind as other probable examples- charge significantly more for (corresponding?) services than your standard national postal service/s? Could this solely account for the lofty prices at play with Barfko items? Still, the quality/speed is a shambles (relative to the cost to the customer) no matter whom and/or however the responsibility for this divides up along the probable distribution-delivery chain of Barfko-MusicToday-UPS.

I think that an important factor in the improvement of international airmail prices is to do with various postal organisations going bust as the broadband network and electronic communication revolution was taking place in the 1990s followed by the increasing necessity for developing international online companies needing to deliver physical product. So after bottoming out, the postal business started to pick up again. Amazon, CD Universe, Bookdepository et al all use standard international airmail postal in padded bags of some type or other. I'd say it was ironical, but it should have been obvious that as online selling grew there would be an increasing need for the postage of physical items.

_________________The way I see it Barry, this should be a very dynamite show.

international shipping is a paltry $10.50 for up to 3 cd's, quite reasonable

Not for me; $14.70 cheapest postal option for one CD out. Can't really bulk order either due to customs thresholds in UK i.e. without incurring extra charge and/or delivery delays by doing so.

In a nutshell, I thought I'd try out ordering direct from Barfko (again) at this opportunity- whereby want an item who's core cost doesn't qualify it for import VAT- and see what it was like (knowing the general perception was that it wasn't very good). I am regretting this somewhat now- at near 3 weeks into delivery time scale since dispatch of my order- but, it is ultimately a fruitful experience for me, regardless, as I have learnt that I probably won't order direct from Barfko again unless I'm happy to wait approximately 1 month to receive what I do....that is unless they change/improve their delivery system. In hindsight it was a somewhat hastily chosen canary to send down this mine- I really want this release asap- and it probably would of been wiser for me to have opted for something I wanted/needed but that could wait a while to be heard in my personal Zappa explorations (e.g., currently, FTMAMM). Live and learn. Hopefully the ZFT will do the same.

Halleluja!! The elephant has been born! In my post box today. ($14.70 for postage.)

For me it's not about the sound quality. FZ is now an important historical figure (I mean, no less important than someone like Stravinsky) and stuff like this is really incredible. To have artefacts like this at our disposal, to be able to get more than just a third hand idea in words about what one of these concerts was like is fantastic. I'm not putting this on my iPhone and boogying around in my car, I'm playing it in my lounge room in HiFi and listening to it like a documentary. None the less, the clarity of the recording is surprising, it's better than the Carnegie tapes.

Given that this is number one, does that mean that there aren't any earlier complete concert recordings (vault I mean, not bootleg) that are in good enough condition for release? I'm seriously looking forward to more of this type of release, by which I mean the idea not necessarily the date of this first recording, of course.

_________________The way I see it Barry, this should be a very dynamite show.

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