Should Chakotay have been more of a "bad ass"

Really he'd probably be a lieutenant commander or commander by that time and head of "Astrophysics" or whatever sub department he's in. He'd still be reporting to someone else, probably Data or an unnamed Chief Science officer, even if he nominally outranked them.

Click to expand...

OTOH, Starfleet not having an "up and out" system like the military makes sense too. Academia often promotes younger more ambitious folk over older but more experienced ones. Picard as the guy who does math nobody likes could just be his thing.

It's also possible this Picard refused promotion (or didn't pursue it) until he'd been replaced by "Real" Picard. Then, to Deana and Riker, it comes off like a midlife crisis than actual ambition.

1. A Maquis Commander who realize that the best chance for him and his Maquis fellows to get home is to join Voyager, play by the rules and have a decent chance to come home in the future.

2. A whiny crybaby who ruins all possibilities for the Maquis on the ship to have a possibility to come home and maybe be paroled when they do arrive home.

We can also compare the both crews on Voyager with the horrible mix of people on the starship Destiny in Stargate Universe:

Voyager: Two crews led by a smart Starfleet Captain and a smart Maquis commander who realized that cooperation between the crews is the only way to survive and get home.

Destiny: Two crews, the military and the civilians who spent most of their time arguing, fighting, manipulating and whining, led by persons who were hardly capable of commanding and steering a tricycle.

I see no reason not to see why Chakotay couldn't have risen to Commander and/or higher. He was a quiet, soft-spoken type but he was apparently very effective as a guerilla warrior against the Cardassians.

Click to expand...

Exactly. Promotions aren't about racking up style points. Promotions come about by demonstrating a strong work ethic and good team work skills, in addition to showing initiative. They have nothing to do how bland a person is.

1. A Maquis Commander who realize that the best chance for him and his Maquis fellows to get home is to join Voyager, play by the rules and have a decent chance to come home in the future.

2. A whiny crybaby who ruins all possibilities for the Maquis on the ship to have a possibility to come home and maybe be paroled when they do arrive home.

We can also compare the both crews on Voyager with the horrible mix of people on the starship Destiny in Stargate Universe:

Voyager: Two crews led by a smart Starfleet Captain and a smart Maquis commander who realized that cooperation between the crews is the only way to survive and get home.

Destiny: Two crews, the military and the civilians who spent most of their time arguing, fighting, manipulating and whining, led by persons who were hardly capable of commanding and steering a tricycle.

No surprise that Voyager managed to get home and Destiny didn't.

Click to expand...

Complete harmony and complete pointless friction are not the only two options. For instance, I liked the way Chakotay talked Janeway into making B'elana chief engineer. DS9 pulled it off with Sisko and Kira and Voyager arguably had more natural conflicts they could have worked with. In Learning Curve, Chakotay could have been a mediator for his crew rather than just stupidly punching someone and saying "THAT'S THE MAQUIS WAY OF DOING THINGS! Now you spend the next 70 years doing whatever Janeway says period." He could have brokered an arrangement where the Maquis crew had to do the training but got leeway on the dress code. Chakotay could have also been taking the position more often that Starfleet rules don't apply dogmatically when you're on your own in the delta quadrant. They abandoned that entire narrative after Alliances because one group of people were murdering jerks.

If they had found the balance where Chakotay was keeping his crew under control but also advocating their position to Janeway he could have been a much better character.

1. A Maquis Commander who realize that the best chance for him and his Maquis fellows to get home is to join Voyager, play by the rules and have a decent chance to come home in the future.

2. A whiny crybaby who ruins all possibilities for the Maquis on the ship to have a possibility to come home and maybe be paroled when they do arrive home.

We can also compare the both crews on Voyager with the horrible mix of people on the starship Destiny in Stargate Universe:

Voyager: Two crews led by a smart Starfleet Captain and a smart Maquis commander who realized that cooperation between the crews is the only way to survive and get home.

Destiny: Two crews, the military and the civilians who spent most of their time arguing, fighting, manipulating and whining, led by persons who were hardly capable of commanding and steering a tricycle.

No surprise that Voyager managed to get home and Destiny didn't.

Click to expand...

Complete harmony and complete pointless friction are not the only two options. For instance, I liked the way Chakotay talked Janeway into making B'elana chief engineer. DS9 pulled it off with Sisko and Kira and Voyager arguably had more natural conflicts they could have worked with. In Learning Curve, Chakotay could have been a mediator for his crew rather than just stupidly punching someone and saying "THAT'S THE MAQUIS WAY OF DOING THINGS! Now you spend the next 70 years doing whatever Janeway says period." He could have brokered an arrangement where the Maquis crew had to do the training but got leeway on the dress code. Chakotay could have also been taking the position more often that Starfleet rules don't apply dogmatically when you're on your own in the delta quadrant. They abandoned that entire narrative after Alliances because one group of people were murdering jerks.

If they had found the balance where Chakotay was keeping his crew under control but also advocating their position to Janeway he could have been a much better character.

Voyager: Two crews led by a smart Starfleet Captain and a smart Maquis commander who realized that cooperation between the crews is the only way to survive and get home.

Destiny: Two crews, the military and the civilians who spent most of their time arguing, fighting, manipulating and whining, led by persons who were hardly capable of commanding and steering a tricycle.

No surprise that Voyager managed to get home and Destiny didn't.

Click to expand...

Cancellation may have had something to do with this..

And anyway, as you say, the Destiny crew is unpleasant. Let them rot out there in space.

... as you say, the Destiny crew is unpleasant. Let them rot out there in space.

Click to expand...

Things don't rot when left in the freezer.

I thought that Chakotay would have been better employed as Janeway's moral compass on the show, problem there is whenever he attempted to do this, Janeway locked him in his quarters. Instead of having him as a bad ass, have him be the ship's (excuse me please) "good ass."

... as you say, the Destiny crew is unpleasant. Let them rot out there in space.

Click to expand...

Things don't rot when left in the freezer.

Click to expand...

Off topic, but I enjoyed Stargate: Universe. Yes, the characters were annoying in the beginning, but they had all started to work together and get along by the end of season 2. Also, had Universe been successful and lasted the Syfy 5 (Syfy tends to give shows 5 seasons, even if season 5 is short), there would have been more Sg-1 films and an Atlantis film.

Janeway was, at heart, a scientist. Yeah, she was good at...everything...but she shouldn't have been. The writers (directors, studio, etc) did a disservice to the show by insisting she change for the storyline instead of allowing the establishment of a character who reacts and changes to situations.

Chakotay was, among other things, a tactician, having taught it at the Academy and then added Maquis tactics to his repertoire. In times of battle, his tactical advice should have predominated. Again, had they established and continued an actual character, he would have appeared more vital to the ship.

What's sad is that some fanfic can create and maintain consistency in the characters better than the show's writers. But then, fanfic authors aren't having the studio insist on bs crap that really doesn't belong.

Everyone, at some some point, needs to "check their gauges," make sure everything's working right, with someone else. "Am I seeing this right" type of thing. Particularly someone under chronic stress. Yes, she should have her own moral compass and not be easily swayed (Ransom was the incarnation of her fear of this), and exactly when she needed to check her gauges, she became Ransom and tossed Chakotay, and threatened to toss Tuvok.

Again, if they had just made Janeway the Senior Science Officer who took over when the Captain and XO were killed then there wouldn't have been any worries over her needing some external checks because we'd understand she wasn't the Captain in the first place.