If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Re: Is Ben Roethlisberger An Elite Quarterback ?

[quote user="Ntegrase96"]If I were ranking the teams* of the NFCE and AFCN* over the last few years and not off of last year alone

Giants and Steelers: Push
Ravens
Eagles/Cowboys (kind of a toss up depending on the year)
Redskins/Bengals: Push

Browns

I'd say the NFCE is a tougher division to come out on top because the 'checks and balances' each team seems to have over another-- IE: Giants sweep Cowboys, Cowboys Sweep Redskins, Redskins sweep Giants, Giants split with Philly who swept both Dallas and Washington-- 5 and 1 in the east-- but Philly fails to win the division?

And while there are 2 top teams in the AFCN, obviously Ben can only play against one because he's on the other. So the toughest divisional games he has are two games against Baltimore.

The AFCN is top heavy, but that doesn't make it a harder path for Ben than Eli has with the NFCE.

Eli is better. No. Doubt. About. It.

[/quote]

I'll give Eli his props as a clutch playoff QB but we're talking elite stats here. Eli had the benefit of a solid receiving corps plus one of the best front 7 on defense. Ben in the playoffs was without Pouncey, Mendenhall, Hampton, Clark, Keisel, Woodley, two starting tackles, and had two undrafted players at offensive gaurd. Eli wouldn't last behind that line but Ben still played with a high ankle sprain. Sorry, but Eli's success has come when he had more supporting cast in place, which he needs to win in the playoffs. Eli lost Plax and didn't repeat until after they drafted Nicks with a high draft choice, Ben won a Superbowl right after losing Plax, and he did it with receivers like Randel El and Cedric Wilson. No doubt Ben gets the nod here.

Re: Is Ben Roethlisberger An Elite Quarterback ?

[quote user="Bumm"][quote user="Ntegrase96"]If I were ranking the teams of the NFCE and AFCN over the last few years and not off of last year alone

Giants and Steelers: Push
Ravens
Eagles/Cowboys (kind of a toss up depending on the year)
Redskins/Bengals: Push

Browns

I'd say the NFCE is a tougher division to come out on top because the 'checks and balances' each team seems to have over another-- IE: Giants sweep Cowboys, Cowboys Sweep Redskins, Redskins sweep Giants, Giants split with Philly who swept both Dallas and Washington-- 5 and 1 in the east-- but Philly fails to win the division?

And while there are 2 top teams in the AFCN, obviously Ben can only play against one because he's on the other. So the toughest divisional games he has are two games against Baltimore.

The AFCN is top heavy, but that doesn't make it a harder path for Ben than Eli has with the NFCE.

Eli is better. No. Doubt. About. It.

[/quote]

I'll give Eli his props as a clutch playoff QB but we're talking elite stats here. Eli had the benefit of a solid receiving corps plus one of the best front 7 on defense. Ben in the playoffs was without Pouncey, Mendenhall, Hampton, Clark, Keisel, Woodley, two starting tackles, and had two undrafted players at offensive gaurd. Eli wouldn't last behind that line but Ben still played with a high ankle sprain. Sorry, but Eli's success has come when he had more supporting cast in place, which he needs to win in the playoffs. Eli lost Plax and didn't repeat until after they drafted Nicks with a high draft choice, Ben won a Superbowl right after losing Plax, and he did it with receivers like Randel El and Cedric Wilson. No doubt Ben gets the nod here.[/quote]

I agree Eli had a better supporting cast with Cruz and Nicks, but the Giants offensive line graded out 31st in the league by PFF. Granted, PFF is not the end all be all for a debate-- the stats they produce are helpful but have their place. But I do think the ranking has its merit and justifies that Eli's offensive line was rather putrid, just as Big Ben's was.

And it's not exactly like Ben's has chopped liver to throw to-- He has Mike Wallace. And the Giants had their share of injuries during the season as well. Countless players didn't even make it out of training camp. Yes, the Giants got healthy and on a roll into the playoffs, which was quite the opposite of what happened with the Steelers. But if we're comparing quarterback play alone, Eli was better than Roethlissberger last year.

Really the only reason anyone considers Roethlissberger to be ranked in the top 10 is because he has two rings and three superbowl appearances. It's not shabby, but his stats aren't remarkable by any means. It's the same story with Eli minus one superbowl appearance. But this is where Eli beats Ben. He is a better playoff and superbowl quarterback than Ben Roethlissberger, which is where Ben made his name in the first place.

Re: Is Ben Roethlisberger An Elite Quarterback ?

Not sure why you would say that since Ben has more playoff wins and appearances than Eli, which means he gets to the playoffs more often. And his playoff stats are comparable to if not outright exceeding the top elite QBs in the league.

Re: Is Ben Roethlisberger An Elite Quarterback ?

They both great . Also both are great for the teams they play for . I would take either one but since im a Giant fan and like Eli's off field activies more than Big Ben i would rather have Eli .
Now that Big Ben is married and is older he probably wont pull the same stunt .
But both are great , but are clutch and both know how to win .
What are we arguing for they came out of the same class . So if Eli doesnt win i dont mind if big ben win . Also Like Pitt as a team also .

Re: Is Ben Roethlisberger An Elite Quarterback ?

[quote user="Bumm"]Not sure why you would say that since Ben has more playoff wins and appearances than Eli, which means he gets to the playoffs more often. And his playoff stats are comparable to if not outright exceeding the top elite QBs in the league.[/quote]

Manning's biggest weak spot is turnovers. However, in the playoffs, he's much better at protecting the ball than big ben. Ben Roethlissberger has 20 touchdowns to 17 interceptions and has an 83 rating. Not bad, but not great. Eli has a TD to turnover ratio of 2:1. And he doesn't really stack up with the top Quarterbacks all that well. Both Rodgers and Brees have career playoff passer ratings over 100. Typically they just don't have the defenses to fall back on... excluding the years they won the superbowl.

Overall, football is a team game and the Steelers consistently have a top 5 defense that helps them get there. Not saying Ben has nothing to do with their success, but more playoff appearances does not translate into him being a better QB.

Re: Is Ben Roethlisberger An Elite Quarterback ?

If you want to play that game, Eli had the best front 7 defense in the playoffs last year and faced some of the weakest defenses in the playoffs, NE and GB. His biggest challenge, an over-rated 49ers team with Alex Smith at QB.

Ben on the other hand often faces Baltimore in the divisional or champoinship game with Ed Reed, Ray Lewis and Terrel Suggs and has a pretty good track record against them.

And Elite playoff QB's also include the likes of Peyton, Brady, etc. Breese and Rogers haven't seen enough playoff time yet and their stats would have to be measured over the long term.

Re: Is Ben Roethlisberger An Elite Quarterback ?

[quote user="Bumm"]If you want to play that game, Eli had the best front 7 defense in the playoffs last year and faced some of the weakest defenses in the playoffs, NE and GB. His biggest challenge, an over-rated 49ers team with Alex Smith at QB.

Ben on the other hand often faces Baltimore in the divisional or champoinship game with Ed Reed, Ray Lewis and Terrel Suggs and has a pretty good track record against them.

And Elite playoff QB's also include the likes of Peyton, Brady, etc. Breese and Rogers haven't seen enough playoff time yet and their stats would have to be measured over the long term.[/quote]
Our DL is excellent, but our LBs are mediocre at best. Our LB play is so weak that we often have to use a safety in a hybrid LB role to help cover up the deficiencies at the intermediate level of our defense.

Re: Is Ben Roethlisberger An Elite Quarterback ?

[quote user="BlueBlitzer"]Hey, they Killed us with the Damn question ad nauseum, didn't they ?[/quote]

Yes, he is. A great competitor, and a winner. His team is always in contention with him on the field, and he is a good leader in the locker room. He is not the prototypical QB, but he gets it done in more ways than one. He is a top 10 QB in the league.

Re: Is Ben Roethlisberger An Elite Quarterback ?

[quote user="Drez"][quote user="Bumm"]If you want to play that game, Eli had the best front 7 defense in the playoffs last year and faced some of the weakest defenses in the playoffs, NE and GB. His biggest challenge, an over-rated 49ers team with Alex Smith at QB.

Ben on the other hand often faces Baltimore in the divisional or champoinship game with Ed Reed, Ray Lewis and Terrel Suggs and has a pretty good track record against them.

And Elite playoff QB's also include the likes of Peyton, Brady, etc. Breese and Rogers haven't seen enough playoff time yet and their stats would have to be measured over the long term.[/quote]
Ummm, the Steelers lost to the freaking Tebow led Broncos.

Re: Is Ben Roethlisberger An Elite Quarterback ?

[quote user="Bumm"][quote user="Drez"][quote user="Bumm"]If you want to play that game, Eli had the best front 7 defense in the playoffs last year and faced some of the weakest defenses in the playoffs, NE and GB. His biggest challenge, an over-rated 49ers team with Alex Smith at QB.

Ben on the other hand often faces Baltimore in the divisional or champoinship game with Ed Reed, Ray Lewis and Terrel Suggs and has a pretty good track record against them.

And Elite playoff QB's also include the likes of Peyton, Brady, etc. Breese and Rogers haven't seen enough playoff time yet and their stats would have to be measured over the long term.[/quote]
Ummm, the Steelers lost to the freaking Tebow led Broncos.

You lose.
[/quote]

LOL, lets see Eli play with a high ankle sprain and no O'line.[/quote]

Eli is one tough mother... so it is not hard to imagine that, but the fact is that Ben is also one tough mother... I think that what appeals to me most about Ben is his leadership, because despite of his off the field issues, he has never lost the respect of his teammates... and that definitely makes him a huge asset to his team.