Weren't we in precisely this same horror film, with the very same script, 14 years earlier? Will the committee have something to say about this?

The publication of the interim report of the Winograd Committee tomorrow is a marginal event. Except for the fate of several individuals, who at most will be replaced by similar ones, nothing will be different the day after. The generals and politicians who cheered for the war from its outset, in a frighteningly unified chorus, will again fill the television screens, this time in the role of admonishers, as pitiful Monday-morning quarterbacks. And we will forgive them their gleeful support for the war. Even if those who conducted the war are forced to step down in the wake of the report, none of their replacements will be someone who opposed the war from the start. Therefore, what was, shall be, even after the report, even in the next war.

The Winograd Committee will not say a word about the writing that was on the wall from the first hour of the war. The committee will address only the brass tacks and the high brass: Because of its appointed scope as well as the characters of its members, the report will deal with the level of preparedness, the performance of the forces and their commanders, the supplies of field rations and what transpired at the supply units and at cabinet meetings. Not a word will be said about the questions that should be troubling us much more: the very fact of embarking on another futile war of choice, the idiotic thought that the war could have solved something, the use of disproportionate military force to restore the lost honor of the Israel Defense Forces, the moral aspects of the war and the intolerably heavy price paid on both sides of the border in the name of hopeless objectives. Even the hollow protest movement that arose after the war refrained from addressing these questions, so what can one expect from "the government examination committee regarding the campaign in the North?" Israel embarked on another unnecessary war, and the Winograd Committee will deal with the details of the battle at Maroun al-Ras.

Only a very few opposed the war from the outset. On July 15, I wrote here: "... we are eager to return to the field of battle and killing without delay, without taking the time to think one step forward, reinforcing the suspicion that we need a war once every few years - and afterward we'll return to exactly the same situation." Without military training, without plasma screens and intelligence reports, this small handful knew what everyone knows today. But the few dogs barked and the convoy galloped onward, to the killing fields.

Major General Gadi Eisenkot, the head of the Operations Directorate during the war, now admits that "after two hours, it was already clear that it was impossible to return the abducted soldiers in a military operation." Why didn't he tell us this then, after the two hours had passed? And now Eisenkot says, "The IDF operation was designed to be a four- to six-day operation, but the plan was disrupted and the campaign developed into a war that lasted over a month." The plan was "disrupted?" Was there really any chance of it not being disrupted? Weren't we in precisely this same horror film, with the very same script, 14 years earlier? Will the committee have something to say about this?

The committee will also not say a word about another subject, which interests almost no one in Israel: the awful killing and destruction we sowed in vain in Lebanon, alongside the heavy price that Israel paid. One thousand Lebanese killed, thousands injured and crippled, and billions of dollars in damage are not on the agenda of the Winograd Committee.

The headlines will declare tomorrow: Israel learned the lessons of the war. Baloney. Proof? There is already growing talk about the next war, this summer.

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Hello Johnboy,
Isn't it shocking the disregard many Israelis and their apologists and the IDF/IAF show for the lives of Palestinians?
Is it any wonder they have a shocking human relationship problem and an appalling human rights record?
I am so sick of their double standards--especially on this issue.
Why should anyone care about their lives anymore? Palestinian blood is not water.
Thank you for recognizing the sanctity of
all life. That's how it should be. Dutch

Here ya' go, PETER SM, posted just last week:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/852136.html
Your post:
#9 "Spread the word. It will save a lot of heartache in the future. Clearly you people have not got the message."
What message would that be, PETER? That killing an IDF soldier - rather an occupational hazard for a soldier, I would have thought - is an instant guarantee that your country will have the snot kicked out of it by the IDF, perhaps?
Your post:
#52 "Which part of killing Israelis gets you whacked can`t you understand? How much clearer can it be said?"
Yes, I believe you are saying exactly that; take out an IDF soldier and your entire country gets "whacked" by the IDF.
Such a wonderfully zionist point of view, isn't it?
Yet when Israel "whacks" an IJ or Hamas operative (as it does, and in Lebanon no less) well, what then PETER? Does that gives those aggrieved organizations carte blanche to "whack" Israel in reply?
Does it, PETER?

..I know who's ranting.
FOX: "The only problem is that evil most definitely exists."
Right. And it is all on the OTHER side of that wall, even though most of the death, destruction and humilation is inflicted *upon* the people who live there?
FOX: "I live here, you do not."
Now, what was that saying about being too close to a problem to see the solution.....?
FOX: "I have the fence standing three kilometers from my home, and it has worked."
Define "worked"; it has given you temporary security, but it has moved the prospect of peace much further away.
FOX: "As it is we have Ghengis Khan at the border, and we have to decide whether to prostrate before them or to fight them"
Ahem, FOX, may I rather gently remind you that YOU have THEM under occupation, not the other way around. It is the Israeli jackboot to the Palestinian throat, and not vice versa.
That sad ol' zionist mindset; you have to be the victim, even when you are the oppressors.

tHE URGE TO LIVE IN PEACE IS NOT NEW, in this world. Sorry it is not a product of any ideology sir.
The only problem is that evil most definitely exists. Not as ghosts rustling furniture in the attic, nor monsters carrying odd names and horribly ugly faces, but in "normal" human beings, some quite good lucking many speaking in words of peace.
Reminds me of the so-called "Peace" marches in London. While crying out for peace they screamed "Allah Akbar" and death to Israel.
I live here, you do not. I have the fence standing three kilometers from my home, and it has worked.
I would love for the Pals to not just hint at peace, but to speak it loudly, and to put the steps necessary for peace into practice.
As it is we have Ghengis Khan at the border, and we have to decide whether to prostrate before them or to fight them.
This is the reality, peace needs two to dance, if not one side must come out victorious. Reality sucks eh?

Hello Gideon Levy,
How right you are, the Israeli people seem so entrenched
into accepting war as a way of life they fail to ask some
important questions and seem to learn few and then easily
buy into the next war. How short sighted and misguided.
However, I tend to hold their government responsible for
fostering that kind of mentality by manipulating the fear
and threat factor as we saw in the Bush camp with WMD.
( See Bill Moyer's documentary, transcript, Buying the War.
http://www.kibush.co.il/show_file.asp?num=19679 )
That's not to let them off the hook--not at all. They must
come to their senses as the American people have from the
war on Iraq and refuse to be seduced into buying the war
alternative and stop the vicious and bloody cycle.
As Martin Luther King, jr notes below violence solves nothing
and as The Two Cats of Kilkenny show, violence is a dead end.
Besides a country's real strength lies not in its military might
but in its ability to form partnerships and create alliances as
the Former US Secretary of State, Madeline Albright points
out in her book, Madam Secretary. She said over reliance on
the military is misguided as it cannot deliver national security
alone. How vey true-indeed. It's no substitute for a dialogue
and diplomacy. Many thanks again, Dutch
P.S.
"Violence is impractical because it is a descending
spiral ending in destruction for all. It is immoral be-
cause it seeks to humiliate the opponent rather
than win his understanding: it seeks to annihilate
rather than convert.
Violence is immoral because it thrives on hatred
rather than love. It destroys community and makes
brotherhood impossible. It leaves society in mono-
logue rather than dialogue. Violence ends up defeat-
ing itself. It creates bitterness in the survivors and
brutality in the destroyers." Martin Luther King, jr.
http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/laureates/1964/king-lecture.html
"There once were two cats from Kilkenny
Each thought there was one cat too many,
So they fought and they fit, and they
scratched and they bit, and instead of
two cats, there ain't any!"
(http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-fig1.htm )
Dutch

If the arabs are riding the same high moral ground as Gideon Levy, may they be blessed. What ground do you ride?
There are only two options in the Palestinian/Israeli conlict, war or peace.
War was tried more than half a dozen times, sometimes more successfully than others, but the results are the same: back to square one.
How about trying the other alternative and seriously. It's time to realize that Israel will not be able to hold to the territories it captured in 1967. Only religious fanatics believe that God will bail them out. So why not starting returning them? The argument that evacuation did not work in Gaza is false. What were our lossses in and around Gaza then and now (including Qassams)?
The army made terrible mistakes leading an inexperienced cabinet intoa war it could not win (see tomorrow Winograd's report); how about letting the army defend the land when attacked and launch a political offensive - for peace?

You seem to know something that nobody knows, to what form of peace will the Arabs agree. All the official peace proposals, be it the Saudi's or the Palestinian government's deal with two states, return to roughly 1967 borders, and a just solution for the refugees.
Israel wants two states, somewhat more than 1967 borders, some accomodation for the large settlements in Judea and Samaria, and interpretation of a just solution as monetary compensation to the refugees.
These positions are not diametrically opposed. The differences can be narrowed in negotiations, and with the help of outside powers maybe even bridged. Without negotiations there are only guesses, based on what? On right wing irresponsible propaganda pronouncements.
Gideon Levi does not want more wars.Who wants it? Do you?

..."the advice you`ll give to your government after the Rockets rain from the Sky..."
There is something you missed, East Timorese don't have any reasons to launch rockets toward us. They got a full independence state from us after a free-fair general election in 1999. Israel still occupied SEBA FARM, WEST BANK, GAZA (settlers were removed but Israel's military rules remained), GOLAN. You got the differences?

Your solution to every problem Israel faces is for the IDF to pick up its weapons and smack down whoever has the temerity to stand up to Israel - in the certain knowledge that this will leave them broken and bloody in the corner, so cowered and traumatized that they will no longer dare to squeek out a peep against Israel
WHERE HAVE I SAID THAT?

Go home to Gaza Gideon, your place is not in Israel, nor as a Jew with the name Levy. Jihad is your profession and Haaretz should be ashamed to print your drivel. You are an A1 traitor to your country and it's citizens, both Jews and Arabs. Your dream is to see Israel wiped off the map, just like your buddy in Iran. But then -- where would you live to vent your hatred?

Take a good look at Gaza. What has the Palestinian leadership done to improve the lives of their people? Why are Palestinians so much more in favor of targeting and killing Israeli citizens instead of improving their own lives? Why were the Palestinians part of the very few on the planet dancing in the streets the day after 9-11? Why are most terrorists islamists? Why are tens of innocent civilians being killed in Iraq every day? Have you ever heard of liberal nonsense? The truth is that Arabs consider Israel as a cancer in their midst. Until Arabs change their view of Israel conflict will prevail over peace. It's fairly evident that Arabs change their ways very very slowly. I'm sorry to say these type of liberal solutions will not work any time soon.

and that ain't no river in deEgypt.
Admit it, you are a warmonger, just as Burkhardt so correctly pointed out.
Your solution to every problem Israel faces is for the IDF to pick up its weapons and smack down whoever has the temerity to stand up to Israel - in the certain knowledge that this will leave them broken and bloody in the corner, so cowered and traumatized that they will no longer dare to squeek out a peep against Israel.
That is your attitude, PETER, and always has been: might makes right, and Israel can therefore always get its way - because it is certainly mighty, and its anger is always righteous.
Endless war. Endless bloodshed. And always PETER SM on the sidelines, cheering Israel on to take up the cudgel QUICKER, and to go in HARDER.
Negotiation? Compromise? That's for wuzzies, isn't it PETER? That's for the Other Side.

Howdy Alan;
Yeah, it's too bad that the Principle of Proportionality isn't in place today either except in the minds of the ICRC which cherry-picked what they wanted and rejected what they didn't like from various international treaties in order to put together "Customary Humanitarian Law" without any authority to do so and which they insist is applicable to all belligerents regardless of whether they have agreed to the CHL or not also without any authority to do so.

It's just something the ICRC made up, says Jeff, and we ALL know what a whacky-way-out group of anti-semites they are!
Except, of course, there is Article 22, Article 23 and Article 25 of the Hague Conventions 1922, which is Treaty Law as well as being Customary Int'l Law, and which prohibits DISproportionate attacks.
There is also Article 8(2)(b)(iv) of the Rome Statute, which is also Treaty Law signed by Israel, which makes a DISproportionate attack a War Crime.
There is also Article 52 and Article 56 of the Additional Protocol 1 of the Geneva Conventions - which is Treaty Law, not customary law, though, of course, Israel has refused to sign that one.
Jeff, you don't think acting DISproportionately is a war crime? Well, there is no better insight into the zionist mindset than that.
It ain't a pretty view, Jeff. Not at all.

again, kidnap some more soldiers and kill 6 or 8 more. Oh you want to come on our side of the border, please you are welcome. You want Shaba farms will tell the UN to adjust the blue line or you can talk to the Syrians yourself. Frankly,though I like the Lebanese army between us and UNIFIL to. what Nasrallah has regrets my what a surprise and sinora is holding on. Victory

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