Which 'stats' should be counted in your eyes? Apparantly everyone is just ****, except for a few players/teams who are just mediocre due to everyone else being ****

It was more of a general question - will we ever get to the stage where we will be willing to discredit one of the Big 8 countries the same way we tend to discredit the likes of BD and ZImbabwe for being 'minnow bashing'?

India's bowling has been terrible for a while now. Really terrible. Even on helpful tracks. Is it wrong to say they are as bad as BD?

And if they are as bad as BD, can we just dismiss runs against them, the same way we tend to pay less heed to runs scored against BD?

General food for thought.

+ a general discussion on how bad India's bowling is now is always nice.

I'm not denying that India's seamers have been diabolical for years now (with the exception of Zaheer and now maybe Yadav). But the facts are at home their spinners have been pretty effective bowling to various tourists. Whether you think thats down to **** batting or fluke bowling, they've been fairly successful.

This is just a bandwagon thread, no offense. The truth is, in the current game, Eden Gardens has always been and still is a total road. The matches always come alive in the last five sessions, and that will probably happen here again. In the last test, KP and Cook batted brilliantly, while India were poor.

Again, too many snap opinions being formed. The reason India is currently failing against England is down to their batting, not their bowling.

Which 'stats' should be counted in your eyes? Apparantly everyone is just ****, except for a few players/teams who are just mediocre due to everyone else being ****

The 'things were better in my day' crowd are really starting to get out of hand on this forum

when did i mention anything about which stats should be counted. all stats are counted.

people still seem to think that zaheer is the zaheer from 2007-2009. moreover they have the misconception that indian spinners are actually decent.

compare the way swann and panesar bowled on this flat wicket on day 1 to how ojha and ashwin have bowled.
compare the way they bowled on a spinning beauty in the last test.
you'll realize how **** indian spinners are.

all in all, it's the second worst attack out of all the top 8 nations.

when did i mention anything about which stats should be counted. all stats are counted.

people still seem to think that zaheer is the zaheer from 2007-2009. moreover they have the misconception that indian spinners are actually decent.

compare the way swann and panesar bowled on this flat wicket on day 1 to how ojha and ashwin have bowled.
compare the way they bowled on a spinning beauty in the last test.
you'll realize how **** indian spinners are.

all in all, it's the second worst attack out of all the top 8 nations.

I don't think Swann or Panesar were anything special. Panesar has been more effective than the other spinners due to the pace that he bowls, yes. He's been superior. But I don't think this makes the Indian spinners ****. Ashwin admittedly has been very disappointing after the first test. I think Ojha has actually bowled quite well though.

Truth is, England have batted very well. Cook has been phenomenal, and KP played a brilliant innings in the last test. They've drastically improved with experience against spin in the SC. Their Pakistan series was the best thing to ever happen to their batting line up.

Main difference between England and India is that India appear quite arrogant and refuse to adjust their games or learn from mistakes. Case in point this whole pitch controversy, and blaming the losses in Australia and England on 'green tops'.

Futhermore, I can't stand stats analysis and cherrypicking BS. I dont really care about averages or whatever anyway, I watch a lot of cricket and judge with my eyes. However, if you are going to cherrypick stats then you have to do it properly. Just saying 'batsman X scored loads of runs against Team X, who are **** so those runs should be discounted' is bad analysis. You need to analyse when those runs were scored, where the batsman batted, how other players performed, who exactly bowled and what the conditions were like. Its a lot of bloody work, and probably a waste of time, but if you want to cherry pick and be taken seriously thats how you've got to do it.

Personally though I can't be bothered. Would rather just watch some ****ing cricket