Ok, this is for the gun gang...you're much more rational, and much less a-holes than those jackwagons on gun sites.

I am getting back into 10mm...again. But this time it's more for a hunting sidearm, truck gun, tree stand gun etc, not self defense anymore. I have a Glock G40 long slide in 10mm. It's a double stack, 6.02" bbl heavy slide pistol. I like it. It's hefty and points well. The grip is wide, and is tough to control with one hand shooting Norma spec full pwr 10mm loads, but not bad with two hands, very shootable, nothing sexy, it just functions.

I want to invest in another 10mm, but in the 1911 frame style. I was looking at Dan Wilson ($2K+), Colt delta Elite ($1100), Kimber ($1000-$1200), and now the Remington R1 10mm Long Slide ($1000-$1300). Shoot, even Sig has chambered the venerable P220 in 10mm, but only in their Elite model, which is around $1400+--I have a P220 Elite in .45acp, great gun, but that's a steep price, and not sure if want another P220, even with the SRT trigger, I'm not a huge fan of the Sig LOOOONG trigger take up, I think for the $$ Sigs have a terrible trigger (and I have 3). I've even read CZ-USA is thinking of bringing back the infamous BrenTen of Miami Vice lore, maybe next year, although, not a gun I'd buy.

Then I cam across the "Big Rock" from Rock Island Armory (RIA). A true double stack 16rnd 1911 (called a 2011) long slide competition race/pro gun inspired configuration. They are still over $1000, which is a lot for a RIA, but they are feature packed, and cost about half of a comparable spec'd gun of another "major" brand even though RIA has been making guns since the '40's, Here's a link to it:

I know if the Colt Rail Guns in .45ACP are anything to go on, then I would choose the Delta Elite for sure. All the sheriffs deputys that still rock 1911's where I work believe that they are the best stock gun you can get at the moment.

"I didn't become an EMT to get a front-row seat to other people's tragedies. I did it because I knew the world was bleeding and so was I, and somewhere inside I knew the only way to stop my own bleeding was to learn how to stop someone else's."

thedriver21 wrote:I know if the Colt Rail Guns in .45ACP are anything to go on, then I would choose the Delta Elite for sure. All the sheriffs deputys that still rock 1911's where I work believe that they are the best stock gun you can get at the moment.

My West Point class pistol is a series 80 Colt 1911 (last military issued model before the Beretta 92FS 9mm). I swapped most of the internals with Ed Brown (few Wilson) parts, it's my best shooting of the several 1911's I own. Thus that's why the Delta Elite is under consideration, but in the single stack cat., there's some stiff 10mm competition right now, and not sure the Colt stacks up...see the other few options I listed, and there's more I found last night. 10mm in 1911 pkg is making a BIG resurgence. But that 2011 is very tempting...I need to fondle one, but I can't find a LGS stocking RIA's, especially that one, which is apparently Hen's teeth right now.

Chubbs wrote:Have you checked the trigger on the SAO (Single Action Only) SIGs. As much as I have always wanted a Delta Elite, if I was buying a 10mm right now, that would be the direction I was looking.

No I haven't....I see that in addition to the Sig P220 Elite Hunter in 10mm, Sig is offering their SAO 1911 style pistols in 10mm too. So I am really torn now, I have not shot any of the Sig 1911 styled guns, but I remember reading reviews on their initial 1911 offerings and remember them not being super warmly revered....but that was 10yrs ago I think.Choices:

You're looking at competition/tactical handguns for a truck/hunting sidearm? I carry a Ruger LC9S Pro as my hunting sidearm in a Mitch Rosen custom leather paddle holster. I can work with it, climb, stoop, run, anything I need to do and forget it's even there. If I need to draw its available in an instant. I own a Glock 35 ipsc type handgun (5.3" barrel) but it's a pita to carry and move around in an outdoor activity situation. I also cc a Ruger LCR in 327 federal. Six shot. That's another great option. It can fire from a jacket or pants pocket unlike an auto.

Rodeoflyer wrote:You're looking at competition/tactical handguns for a truck/hunting sidearm? I carry a Ruger LC9S Pro as my hunting sidearm in a Mitch Rosen custom leather paddle holster. I can work with it, climb, stoop, run, anything I need to do and forget it's even there. If I need to draw its available in an instant. I own a Glock 35 ipsc type handgun (5.3" barrel) but it's a pita to carry and move around in an outdoor activity situation. I also cc a Ruger LCR in 327 federal. Six shot. That's another great option. It can fire from a jacket or pants pocket unlike an auto.

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Yes. I had a LCS and a LCP, and now have an LCR in .357. I would not carry that, the LCP, LCS, or my G43 or PF9 as 'hunting' arms, or bear pro arms. In AK I carried a Ruger Super RedHawk, ported, with 4" BBL in 454 Casull as my Bear gun. I am looking for a 6" bbl 1911 style 10mm, it's a great platform for hunting. Not sure if the double 10mm would be as good, probably too heavy, but the 16 rnds is enticing. My G40 6" bbl with 16rnds has been a solid performer, looking to pair it with a 1911 styled 10mm.

The Dan Wesson is the only model you listed that I'd buy. Mainly because I don't like 1911's but also because most of the others are shot. Personally I'd put a KKM in the G40 and spend the rest of the money on a rifle. Revolvers aren't more reliable than a good auto.

I think you're missing out if you don't at least look at a Tanfo / EAA Witness Hunter 10mm. It's a 10mm in a CZ style race frame with a tuned CZ style ignition system. As good as the Dan Wesson and better than everything else you listed. http://eaacorp.com/index.php/guns/handg ... foglio-109

I had a Sig 1911, what an abortion. They broached the magwell crooked and nothing lined up. Sig replaced that pistol three times and never got it right. Any time I hear Sig USA and "match" in the same sentence I can't help but laugh.

I just did a .460 Rowland conversion on a .45 Springfield XD for a better SD handgun while hunting. .460 Rowland lands somewhere between a 10mm and a .44 mag. Can shoot .45 ACP .45 Super .45 SMC and .460 Rowland. Wouldn't be my first choice for bear but it'd for sure work. Its available in a few platforms, including 1911 XD and Glock.

I also carry it in an Andrews Monarch custom leather shoulder holster counter balanced by two 13rnd mags and a drop point fixed blade (ka-bar navy mark 1). Makes a nice package for hunting for me. Waist mounted stuff doesn't work well for me. Belt just won't stay up. But that's 10+1 and 2 13 round replacements of .460 Rowland. That's STOUT. And its light and a platform I'm very familiar with.

I can turn that same XD into a 25+1 round carbine, a .45, a .460 Rowland, and a .22LR.

STI has a drop in kit in .460. That's a great option tankerzak. I was reading about a guy who stopped carrying his 454 casull because he can put 14 rds of .460 on a charging target in the time it takes to put 2-3 of 454 casull. We don't have anything down here in South Texas that requires that much firepower but a great option over 10mm.

Reloaderguy wrote:I think you're missing out if you don't at least look at a Tanfo / EAA Witness Hunter 10mm. It's a 10mm in a CZ style race frame with a tuned CZ style ignition system. As good as the Dan Wesson and better than everything else you listed. http://eaacorp.com/index.php/guns/handg ... foglio-109

I had a Sig 1911, what an abortion. They broached the magwell crooked and nothing lined up. Sig replaced that pistol three times and never got it right. Any time I hear Sig USA and "match" in the same sentence I can't help but laugh.

No, I have looked at both EAA & STI. Not a huge CZ fan (had a CZ75 long time ago, it was ehh) especially of its Italian knock-off Tangfolio, & we'll disagree on where EAA resides in the pantheon of firearm manufacturers. The Witness Hunter is a very similiar product as the RIA Big Rock 2011, right? Both are supped up race spec double 10's from a traditionally lower tier priced company, selling remakes of other established designs, at price friendly levels--RIA Big Rock 2011 MSRP : $1300, EAA Witness Hunter MSRP : $1300. I think your assertion "better than everything else listed" is a long stretch, unverified, and not substantiated by any measure of demonstrable standards. But im open to reviewing data or other info stating thus--but it is a great looking gun, maybe if i can find one at a irresistible price ($950-$1K is street $) I'd give it a go, can always trade it off if it's not for me.

I don't want to spend $2K for an STI (although they're awesome, like a Caspian) if I don't have to. The Sig 1911 isn't a high contender right now, but the P220 elite is.

Honestly $1K is my comfort zone, maybe $1300 if i really loved something. The Wesson is still above my price range, but it's the gold std in 10mm in my opinion, which brings the Delta Elite in strong contention with the RIA double.

Rodeoflyer wrote:STI has a drop in kit in .460. That's a great option tankerzak. I was reading about a guy who stopped carrying his 454 casull because he can put 14 rds of .460 on a charging target in the time it takes to put 2-3 of 454 casull. We don't have anything down here in South Texas that requires that much firepower but a great option over 10mm.

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That's exactly where i landed. It came down to buying a 44 mag, 454 Casull, or 460 S&W revolvers for some stiff prices. or buying a drop in kit for something i already owned. And i think if faced off again with a bear (last two times it happened i had a 30-06) and i only had a pistol I'd rather be able to mag dump 13+1 of hard cast 255grn 460 Rowland. Knowing a mag change takes a split second, than standing with a 5 shot 454 Cassul like the short brl Ruger Alaskan.

Reloaderguy wrote:I think you're missing out if you don't at least look at a Tanfo / EAA Witness Hunter 10mm. It's a 10mm in a CZ style race frame with a tuned CZ style ignition system. As good as the Dan Wesson and better than everything else you listed. http://eaacorp.com/index.php/guns/handg ... foglio-109

I had a Sig 1911, what an abortion. They broached the magwell crooked and nothing lined up. Sig replaced that pistol three times and never got it right. Any time I hear Sig USA and "match" in the same sentence I can't help but laugh.

No, I have looked at both EAA & STI. Not a huge CZ fan (had a CZ75 long time ago, it was ehh) especially of its Italian knock-off Tangfolio, & we'll disagree on where EAA resides in the pantheon of firearm manufacturers. The Witness Hunter is a very similiar product as the RIA Big Rock 2011, right? Both are supped up race spec double 10's from a traditionally lower tier priced company, selling remakes of other established designs, at price friendly levels--RIA Big Rock 2011 MSRP : $1300, EAA Witness Hunter MSRP : $1300. I think your assertion "better than everything else listed" is a long stretch, unverified, and not substantiated by any measure of demonstrable standards. But im open to reviewing data or other info stating thus--but it is a great looking gun, maybe if i can find one at a irresistible price ($950-$1K is street $) I'd give it a go, can always trade it off if it's not for me.

I don't want to spend $2K for an STI (although they're awesome, like a Caspian) if I don't have to. The Sig 1911 isn't a high contender right now, but the P220 elite is.

Honestly $1K is my comfort zone, maybe $1300 if i really loved something. The Wesson is still above my price range, but it's the gold std in 10mm in my opinion, which brings the Delta Elite in strong contention with the RIA double.

In the end what you want is what you want, no data in the world will change that. The only real way to demonstrate quality is to personally hold each example. Tanfo makes raceguns that go head to head with STI, they also make lower end guns but that isn't their main business. I wouldn't put a Filipino pot metal gun in the same category as an upper end Tanfo regardless of the RIA's pricepoint. Call it a knockoff or not, it's just silly. Of course, CZ makes race guns too and if the extent of your experience with the brand is a 1980 PD surplus gun then I don't know what to tell you. My built Shadow is nowhere close to "ehh".

As I said, I wouldn't buy from any of the companies you listed; Remington's QC is absolutely terrible right now, Colt is on the verge of bankruptcy, Kimber is still in love with MIM and poor QC, and RIA is a low end asian 1911. The quality of 1911's in the last 20 years has not improved, you're going to pay top dollar for low quality parts. Dan Wesson (CZ) is the only company you listed that seems to care about quality and actually makes a good product. The point about Sig is that their US built guns aren't the same quality as the German models despite the high price.

Frankly, the major selling point of the 10mm is that it is available in a double stack. Once you reduce magazine capacity to seven or eight rounds you may as well buy a wheelie gun with big horsepower. 10mm was always marketed as having close to 357mag energy in a high capacity magazine and relatively short barrel. There are only a couple of 10mm pistols on the market that are decent quality and high capacity and you already own one of them. My short list for 10mm is Glock and Tanfo. They are the only two high capacity 10mm guns in current production that were purpose built for the cartridge.

I can second Remington having garbage QC and overall ability to make a good product. My 887 12ga literally blew apart in my girlfriends hands. Lucky us, that gun probably had 200 shells through it when I handed it to her and two shells in of birdshot the bolt fragmented. My 700 Long Range is just cheaply made. The stock is good, the barrel is good, the mechanism just seems off. Oh, and they can't get the effing rail mount bolts to be in a straight line on either gun! Seriously!? It's a machined part and I can eyeball the screws are off!? I won't be buying another Remington. Shouldn't have sold themselves to Freedom Group.

I have a Remington 760 in 30-06 that i LOVE. Magazine fed pump action with a rotating locking bolt. Accurate as hell. Been hunting with it for 30 years. I replaced the furniture with some lightweight synthetics and a folding stock. Makes it super handy.

Wouldn't buy a Remington today. If i was buying a bolt gun for modification I'd start with a Tikka most likely.

I did buy the Stoeger M3K 3 gun 12ga and that thing runs like a Bennelli. Super impressed and glad i didn't go Remington.

adeluca73 wrote:Then I cam across the "Big Rock" from Rock Island Armory (RIA). A true double stack 16rnd 1911 (called a 2011) long slide competition race/pro gun inspired configuration. They are still over $1000, which is a lot for a RIA, but they are feature packed, and cost about half of a comparable spec'd gun of another "major" brand even though RIA has been making guns since the '40's, Here's a link to it:

By the way, the RIA pistol is not a "2011" pattern double stack, it is a Para P18. 2011 guns use a polymer grip and chassis and take specific 2011 pattern magazines. The 2011 magazines are the gold standard for double stack open race guns, P18 mags are somewhere between AIDS and Honda. They can be made to work, some work pretty well...some are a nightmare. Para was bought by Remington which seems to be prophetic since both have about the same level of poor quality.