AFK or not, is pet-farming this really any worse than level-cap Champion going into a low-level zone and vacuuming up all the mobs? Such behaviour is rude as heck to any lowbies trying to complete quests, but well within the rules AFAIK. I've lost count how many times I've had to put off completing a quest or deed because some capped character was camping the respawn point.

Exactly - you don't need to multibox or afk-farm to ruin another's enjoyment. The other week I was deed-grinding Angmar orcs in that camp of theirs in Eastern Angmar with my lvl 50 RK. A lvl cap champ came along obviously to do the same thing and just ignored all my /tells to group up. In the end I logged off and left him/her to it. See this behaviour all the time in lower-level areas that are popular for zeal, valour etc.

Exactly - you don't need to multibox or afk-farm to ruin another's enjoyment. The other week I was deed-grinding Angmar orcs in that camp of theirs in Eastern Angmar with my lvl 50 RK. A lvl cap champ came along obviously to do the same thing and just ignored all my /tells to group up. In the end I logged off and left him/her to it. See this behaviour all the time in lower-level areas that are popular for zeal, valour etc.

Thing is, at keyboard farming requires attention, and therefore is limited in time. With no one at the keyboard, you can farm all day long, when at works, etc...
Afk-farming definitely ruins games more than any at keyboard activity. Anyone who played AC1 knows that (except the macroers who will never admit it of course).

Thing is, at keyboard farming requires attention, and therefore is limited in time. With no one at the keyboard, you can farm all day long, when at works, etc...
Afk-farming definitely ruins games more than any at keyboard activity. Anyone who played AC1 knows that (except the macroers who will never admit it of course).

In my example, if the person was afk-farming with a pet or landscape soldier then at least their impact would have been limited to the agro-radius of their pet and I could have carried on deed-grinding on the other side of the camp. However yes I accept your point that afk-farmers can be a huge nuisance and certainly need dealing with, just that banning them won't make the overall problem of anti-social behaviour in MMOs go away.

I've never seen it, but I am no where need cap; 51st hunter is my main, no hurry to get there. Now multiboxing is something I see a lot and find it quite amusing, little strobeing clone armies lol So theoretically it is more then possible to set up an LM or cappy mutlibox army, literally set loose the dogs of war, then go get coffee. Probably goes on a lot more then you think.

AFK or not, is pet-farming this really any worse than level-cap Champion going into a low-level zone and vacuuming up all the mobs? Such behaviour is rude as heck to any lowbies trying to complete quests, but well within the rules AFAIK. I've lost count how many times I've had to put off completing a quest or deed because some capped character was camping the respawn point.

Not sure what the problem is here. Are you saying that someone shouldn't be able to go into a lowbie area and do anything if they are over the level? That would put a serious kink in completing all your deeds.

Maybe you could take initiative and ask if the person wouldn't mind joining forces with you to help you complete your quest or deed... instead of automatically assuming they are there to trample on your "enjoyment."

In my example, if the person was afk-farming with a pet or landscape soldier then at least their impact would have been limited to the agro-radius of their pet and I could have carried on deed-grinding on the other side of the camp. However yes I accept your point that afk-farmers can be a huge nuisance and certainly need dealing with, just that banning them won't make the overall problem of anti-social behaviour in MMOs go away.

What are they doing that is worth banning? As long as they are not doing anything that is breaking Turbine's rules, it seems the only problem here is that certain people spend too much time trying to police other people rather than minding their own business.

What are they doing that is worth banning? As long as they are not doing anything that is breaking Turbine's rules, it seems the only problem here is that certain people spend too much time trying to police other people rather than minding their own business.

Its sure legal, but nonetheless quite offensive for "victim"

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Thank you, Turbine, for listening and giving us an opt-out of FE! Good work!

The only way it can offend you is if you give them the power to offend you... most of the people I come across who are farming mobs in lower level areas are doing so for loot, quests, and/or deeds. And, 90% of the time if you ask them to join with you and help you accomplish your tasks they will.

See, there is this thing called "handling it like a mature adult." Sadly, too many people seem to make a habit of trying to police what other people are doing. I say a lot of the whining about this or that needs to stop... and people mind their own business. If someone is doing something truly offensive, report them so a GM can deal with it and move on with your life. Otherwise, cope with it. Either offer to work with them or move onto something else (if you can) until that person has moved on.

The only way it can offend you is if you give them the power to offend you... most of the people I come across who are farming mobs in lower level areas are doing so for loot, quests, and/or deeds. And, 90% of the time if you ask them to join with you and help you accomplish your tasks they will.

See, there is this thing called "handling it like a mature adult." Sadly, too many people seem to make a habit of trying to police what other people are doing. I say a lot of the whining about this or that needs to stop... and people mind their own business. If someone is doing something truly offensive, report them so a GM can deal with it and move on with your life. Otherwise, cope with it. Either offer to work with them or move onto something else (if you can) until that person has moved on.

Somethings are just wrong, whether I find them offensive or not. Is multiboxing wrong? Yes. Is it against rules? No. Do I find it offensive? Couldn't care less, usually laughing too hard to be offended.
Finding something wrong and finding something offensive are two different things.
And I hate to say it but yes, we are our brothers keeper. If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. Simple as that.

And I can't explain why I find multiboxing wrong with out being insultingly offensive.

Now do I play game cop and run around report everyone I suspect is up to something? No. Do I check suspicious goings on? Sure. Have I ever reported people? 2, and in a bit over a year that really isn't at all bad for an MMO. But don't come on here and practically accuse people of being fascist simply for doing what any good citizen should do.
On the other I just made the report and moved on. I'm not going to stand there and wait to see what happens, not going to pester a GM to do something about it... NOW. I did my part, other things to do

What are they doing that is worth banning? As long as they are not doing anything that is breaking Turbine's rules, it seems the only problem here is that certain people spend too much time trying to police other people rather than minding their own business.

Not saying that should be banned. Where do I say that? Quote? .......

Read it again - I was commenting that multi-boxing or afk-farming is not the only prerequisite for anti-social behaviour. As far as I am aware, anti-social behaviour does not warrant a ban..

Maybe you could take initiative and ask if the person wouldn't mind joining forces with you to help you complete your quest or deed... instead of automatically assuming they are there to trample on your "enjoyment."

Also if you read my post more carefully, you will see that I was referring to a lvl cap player ignoring my requests to join up - which in my view for an MMO is anti-social. But, not an offence that should result in a ban? Is that clear?

Somethings are just wrong, whether I find them offensive or not. Is multiboxing wrong? Yes. Is it against rules? No. Do I find it offensive? Couldn't care less, usually laughing too hard to be offended.
Finding something wrong and finding something offensive are two different things.
And I hate to say it but yes, we are our brothers keeper. If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. Simple as that.

And I can't explain why I find multiboxing wrong with out being insultingly offensive.

Now do I play game cop and run around report everyone I suspect is up to something? No. Do I check suspicious goings on? Sure. Have I ever reported people? 2, and in a bit over a year that really isn't at all bad for an MMO. But don't come on here and practically accuse people of being fascist simply for doing what any good citizen should do.
On the other I just made the report and moved on. I'm not going to stand there and wait to see what happens, not going to pester a GM to do something about it... NOW. I did my part, other things to do

I'm still waiting for the people who think multi-boxing is wrong to make an actual case as to how it is wrong. This is something that has gone on since the beginning of computer games. It is the result of enterprising individuals deciding they can use it to take advantage of certain things for themselves.

All of the angst toward multi-boxers is simply a case of some people who can't stand it that there are people who have figured out that they can use it to take advantage of certain mechanics within most MMOs that makes efficient use of their time doing certain activities. It is a result of people who have this false notion about "fairness."

And, let's be clear. Turbine has unequivocally declared that multi-boxing is not a violation. In fact, I would argue that the new looting system that came with Riders of Rohan actually encourages multi-boxing even more. Though I can't prove it, I suspect they (like me) know that there is absolutely nothing wrong (morally or otherwise) with multi-boxing (outside of PvMP). In fact, they probably have the attitude... "Hey, if you want to spend more money on our game and can actually manage more than 1 character at a time, go for it."

And, I would argue that those who are enterprising enough to be able to manage the multi-boxing tend to be the people you want to have around because they are the ones who tend to be most generous. There are several people in my kinship who own multiple characters and/or accounts... and some multi-box. They are the most generous people. In fact, when someone needs something, the multi-boxers are the ones most likely to have what you need or the means to get it within short order.

What you are speaking out against are the few idiots who do act like jerks. Frankly, there are those kind of idiots no matter where you go and they tend to ruin the fun for the majority who don't harbor any desire to ruin things.

So, instead of having this topic come up time after time, how about people stop being so worried about other people? There is a huge difference between "being your brother's keeper" and being a busybody.

With that... I'll go back to my dual-boxing of Carn Dum so I can restock my kinship's supply of class items.

Also if you read my post more carefully, you will see that I was referring to a lvl cap player ignoring my requests to join up - which in my view for an MMO is anti-social. But, not an offence that should result in a ban? Is that clear?

But, why do we even need to enter "banning" into the discussion?

So the guy was ignoring your requests to join up... be the adult and go do something else until he is done farming that area. A little annoying? Sure. But if you go so far as to allow them to offend you... the other guy has already won.

But ninja invites in loop from some low level players are also really annoying and I always ignore them.
(I have even been insulted/reported once because I had ignored 3 ninja invites...)

Never mentioned ninja invites did I? Unless you refer to sending a tell along the lines of "Hi, doing the zeal deed? Fancy joining up?" is a ninja invite in which case I'd like to see what constitutes a valid request?

So the guy was ignoring your requests to join up... be the adult and go do something else until he is done farming that area. A little annoying? Sure. But if you go so far as to allow them to offend you... the other guy has already won.

Who is talking about banning?

Anyhow you really don't get it do you? If a lvl cap player is farming an area and not only sees a lowbie also doing the same deed but that lowbie sends a tell to join up and the capped player just carries on? The point here is that what used to make lotro a better place than say WoW was that capped players did used to respond and offer to help out. It was called "community". There was certainly no offence caused by the cap player but it's a bit of a sad reflection on the way some players are in this game today.

I have been playing LOTRO for over 5 years now. And there have always been those who are rude and those that are polite. Always been those that farm in low level quest areas and ignore all tells. And always been those that insist on doing their wolf deed in the two, very small, quest areas in Shire and Ered Luin. Used to be much worse actually, as the gold farmers were rampant for a long time, and the gold selling spam was incessant. Then there were characters with names like Xssyur farming for days on end for things to post at AH to get the gold to then sell on their websites. Took a long time, but that was finally stopped.

Thing is, everyone has a right to deed. But to be fair, NOT in key quest areas when there are other places in the same zone to deed. Other than that, it is all open game. Plenty else to do if someone high level is deeding slugs in the bog, or harvest flies on the hill.

Turbine also stopped a lot of unfair farming a long time ago, by doing things like putting shard droppers on random timers.

Botting is against the Eula of course, but most types of boxing is OK with Turbine.

I'm still waiting for the people who think multi-boxing is wrong to make an actual case as to how it is wrong. This is something that has gone on since the beginning of computer games. It is the result of enterprising individuals deciding they can use it to take advantage of certain things for themselves.

"since the beginning of computer games", I doubt this very much (but I could be wrong about when it started). Computer gaming goes back at least before 1970, with Spacewar, hunt the wumpus, star trek (basically zoom around a small grid and shoot klingons) being early favorites. I doubt there were many multiboxes for things like air-warrior (but there must have been a few with more than one phone line, so I will admit the existence at least by then). I still can't see a benefit in the MUD I played (tapmud, if anyone heard of it). I'm pretty sure that Everquest and Ultima Online had such players (were there any before this that wouldn't require multiple phone lines?)

In other news I just found out I need to be a little more attentive when my character is crafting huge stacks of mats (no, I don't automate any repairs. I just don't pay much attention to the character while crafting so many items).

I'm still waiting for the people who think multi-boxing is wrong to make an actual case as to how it is wrong. This is something that has gone on since the beginning of computer games. It is the result of enterprising individuals deciding they can use it to take advantage of certain things for themselves.

All of the angst toward multi-boxers is simply a case of some people who can't stand it that there are people who have figured out that they can use it to take advantage of certain mechanics within most MMOs that makes efficient use of their time doing certain activities. It is a result of people who have this false notion about "fairness."

And, let's be clear. Turbine has unequivocally declared that multi-boxing is not a violation. In fact, I would argue that the new looting system that came with Riders of Rohan actually encourages multi-boxing even more. Though I can't prove it, I suspect they (like me) know that there is absolutely nothing wrong (morally or otherwise) with multi-boxing (outside of PvMP). In fact, they probably have the attitude... "Hey, if you want to spend more money on our game and can actually manage more than 1 character at a time, go for it."

And, I would argue that those who are enterprising enough to be able to manage the multi-boxing tend to be the people you want to have around because they are the ones who tend to be most generous. There are several people in my kinship who own multiple characters and/or accounts... and some multi-box. They are the most generous people. In fact, when someone needs something, the multi-boxers are the ones most likely to have what you need or the means to get it within short order.

What you are speaking out against are the few idiots who do act like jerks. Frankly, there are those kind of idiots no matter where you go and they tend to ruin the fun for the majority who don't harbor any desire to ruin things.

So, instead of having this topic come up time after time, how about people stop being so worried about other people? There is a huge difference between "being your brother's keeper" and being a busybody.

With that... I'll go back to my dual-boxing of Carn Dum so I can restock my kinship's supply of class items.

Wrong, but nice try. The term I use isn't "enterprising". Sorry I can't enter in to this argument with out using derogatory terms. But I can assure you it has nothing to do with being enterprising.

en·ter·pris·ing
adjective \-?pr?-zi?\

: having or showing the ability or desire to do new and difficult things.