How Valued is VENICE?

According to VENICE publicist Leslie Penny on Twitter, "The first epi of VENICE is free and the rest of the Season is through subscription! for $9.99!" The show premieres Friday night at 11 p.m. ET at venicetheseries.com.

This is the first time I have heard that VENICE The Series will cost money, the decision is bound to result in different reactions. The new indie soap had previously polled fans about their willingness to pay, and the response likely influenced the decision.

On one hand, this could be the first step in making the new medium of internet media financially viable. On the other, some may think it's exploitation of VENICE's massive fanbase to charge a price for viewing.

Is this a brilliant business strategy, or a monster mistake? Are you willing to pay for VENICE or other web soaps? Is this a reasonable price for the episodes plus backstage footage? Your input is always valuable so let us know what you think!

109 comments:

I'm gonna be the first in line to pay for Venice. It's insane to think that The VTeam can do this for free! We've seen the teaser and it looks like it's going to be quality stuff. And we can see the first ep to make sure. I'm glad that they're doing this and i want to support them in any way i can.

I voted for a paid subscription w/perks for subscribers. I think it beats having commercials or risking censorship from a sponsor. I trust the women making Venice and I believe they are going to use the subscription costs to fund Season 2 of Venice.

I don't feel exploited and I don't feel outraged - take a look at the costs these women have put on all things Venice. Everything on the Venice store was priced much lower than any other store w/promotional items.

I trust Crystal Chappell, Kim Turissi and Hope Royalety and believe them to be women of integrity - I don't believe for a minute that they are taking advantage of anyone.

I don't really pay for any TV shows, although I would pay for FRIDAY NIGHT LIGHTS right now since I just moved and can't watch the rest of the season. :( But we have been anticipating VENICE for so long, I feel like I can't miss it. Although as press, can't we get screeners?!! (Okay, had to ask.)

I have always said soaps should monetize in any way they can. I don't remember the results of that poll on the VENICE website but I believe a lot of people said they would be willing to pay. Does anyone remember that or am I imagining thing?

Hopefully this won't prevent anyone from seeing it who wants to. I fear it might prevent some potential viewers who aren't die-hard Crystal/Jessica/Nadia, etc fans from watching. I still think the show will be a huge "ratings" success and if 25,000 people, not even half of the number who have watched the teaser subscribe, that's $250,000. That's huge for a show like this.

My other random thought is about paying the talent, crew, etc. In a lot of these indie soaps, they cost more than they ever make and people work for free. But when you have a definitive source of income, eventually the actors all have to get paid. That's one thing I notice the veteran actors have said to us more than the younger ones when we mention web series - how do we get paid?

For me, this news didn't come as a surprise. While joining 'Team Venice' on the official website, there was a poll question about whether or not you'd be willing to pay for it. There have been several interviews where Crystal has mentioned that a subscription model was one of the things being considered for Venice AND Crystal has tweeted about it before.

And honestly, it doesn't bother me at all. EVERYTHING in life costs money, including the creation of this series and the website. Yes, the production cost for the 1st season was covered by the purchases from the V shop, but if we want to ensure a future for Venice it has to make money somehow. 10 dollars, fortunately, is not a huge sum of money. I will happily pay it to be able to watch.

I will pay 2 watch. At this point a fee won't turn me away. However, I would have loved to see non Otalia fans reaction to the new show and I'm not so sure new viewers will be enticed to watch with the fee. No one pays for shows on the web. those who aren't 'invested' probably won't.

I was looking forward to dragging friends into watching online. Sadly, I don't think that will happen with a subscription.

A subscription model will greatly limit the the series's future growth.

Yes, there is a fanbase who is willing to pay. But there is an even greater audience who has no interest in paying. Ten dollars isn't much, but many aren't willing to pay even that much, at least not until they see what it is that they're buying. (One episode is not enough.)

They'd have been better off offering low-res episodes on youtube and their site for free, and the subscription fee would allow viewers to view the hi-res episodes and extras.

I wish this series success, but it seems they are limiting themselves by going with this subscription model.

Extra post because I forgot something... On the Big Purple Dreams posting board an article was posted from the Israeli tv guide. In it, Crystal said the following: The business model for season 1 specifically will be that the first episode will be free and then the additional 11 episodes will be through subscription.

So from that interview, it seems like they are still testing the waters, trying to find out what works and what doesn't... Looks like nothing is set in stone (yet) for season 2

I have heard Crystal Chappell talk about how much it means to her to give back to the community that has been so supportive of Otalia. But does this only include the community with money? Not everyone has $10 these days to spend on entertainment. Some will be excluded.

My other concern is that this may set a precedent as far as charging for web soaps. I'm willing to pay for some entertainment, HBO makes some of the best soaps around. But I have this idealized notion of web soaps being accessible and free, as they have been on television, and that they could become financially viable by attracting sponsors. Anyone else living in that ideal world?

Considering that people pay $10+ not including snacks and parking for a movie theater experience that they cannot own, this isn't bad at all. There are plenty of network shows that are not only earning revenue on TV and their respective websites but also on Amazon and itunes. Why shouldn't Venice make what money it can? People are quick to associate a pricetag with corporate greed, but this is the least greedy form of entertainment I've seen in a long time.

I don't pay for HBO but I will pay for VENICE. I definitely get that the economy is terrible and many are unemployed and paying for any type of TV or web show is an extravagance. But the charge, which includes extras, is less than the cost of one movie here in NYC.

I have been telling everyone for months to support indie soaps and that support comes in all forms I suppose. I guess I had forgotten that subscriptions were even on the table, but sometimes the market dictates the cost of things (at least that's what they always say when talking about the salaries of professional athletes).

I would actually love to see the daytime soaps put out some original content/extra scenes and charge for it. At least TRY to make some money to improve production.

There possibily won't be a season 2 if they don't do subscription for this season. I agree that this will limit their growth at first, but maybe after funding next season, they can go back to looking for open minded sponsorship

I have been anxiously looking forward to Venice and will pay the $9.99. However, I have several concerns. Venice is limiting access to those who can't afford it as well as those less invested (non-Otalia) fans. I would like to see them build up as large and broad a fan base as possible and I just don't see how that can happen with this model. I hope I am wrong.

More thoughts to add. There are so many ways to generate revenue that don't cut off your potential fanbase...sponsorship, selling dvds, merch, charging for HD and behind the scenes. There are a lot of loyal fans that would do some or all of the above which would allow for basic access to others.

More thoughts...If one of the goals of Venice is to show people that gay people are the same as everyone else (per Kim T), how do you do that without expanding your fan base outside of Otalia fans who probably already get that point? If another goal is to make soaps accessible to a new audience, how do you do that with this model?

I agree Amy. You can pre-sell dvds, higher quality streaming options, extra content. You can even make the payment a 'suggested donation' which lots of music artists now do with their downloads. Some chose to overpay, others take for free and it usually evens out (depending on the demo of the audience). V fans would step up & pay, while new viewers wouldn't be turned away.

How about an ebay auction of autographed merch, outfits worn on V, etc. Some Otalia/GL stuff sold for big money after GL ended.

There are lots of other options.

Like I said, I will pay, several thousand other invested fans will, but not anywhere near the numbers that would have viewed. Another thought, the potential lost viewers are also lost future merch sales.

I'm dissapointed with the news... They have announced this show as a free show, and as a sustainable proyect... So I showed my support to this idea, at this moment I can't pay a fee for anything so I'm sad about this news... I can't pay so I can't watch the show... I am surprised, maybe cause I believed that with donations and money from merchandising this could be possible... At least, I will be satisfied by watching the first episode only...

I'm just now remembering what happened with Dr. Horrible... It was streamed 3 days for free, then became available as a paid download on iTunes. At some point, I think it was a few months later, it was streamed for free again.

Who knows, maybe this could be the route Venice will take... Have it available for the subscribers in high quality, plus extra's, then post it a few weeks or months later to be viewed for free in a lower quality... just thinking up some ideas here :)

$10 is a lot cheaper than buying Venice undies I wouldn't ever really wear. It is a shame that it looks like no sponsor has come aboard to make basic viewing free. Not one single product needs exposure to a mostly young, intelligent and female fanbase most of whom have lots of spending dollars and brand loyalty? Sad.

Based on everything that's been said in interviews including our interviews at WLS, I think everyone involved in VENICE has the best of intentions. I probably think of most of these shows in too grand a way. I'm hoping they are the savior of my beloved soaps, put out positive messages, and are great quality. But if they are to be sustainable, they also have to be a business. Tristan Rogers said that in our interview with him (it's a good read if you haven't seen it). VENICE, like a lot of shows that want to go beyond one season or one set of episodes, has to find that right balance between doing a fun, creative indie project, and actually making money and paying people and creatiing a sustainable business model.

I don't think any of us know how it will pan out. As someone said, this could be the model for season one, but the producers may do a post-mortem and come up with something different in season two.

At least we're talking about a new soap and new ways of doing things. There's so much doom and gloom about the TV soaps. I wish we were talking about business models and profits and sustainability for them too.

If the PayPal link were up right now, I would be a subscriber right now. Sure, I have concerns about people who can't afford it, as well as about people who can but won't pay for it.

But, there will be a DVD and some people always seem to prefer to wait, while others of us are having a hard time waiting even one more day.

Nothing's free. Almost everyone pays a cable bill just as almost everyone reading this pays for Internet access.

But, we've been paying for the affiliate model with advertising for a very long time. Sure, at one time that was a useful model and advertising was more in synch with just ordinary people. But, when the market is so twisted & torqued that it affects what you see on the air; cancellation of shows; shows that never get on the air; dumbing down of television in all ways; things you want to see that are being killed off - slowly or steeply. We're paying! Some might see it as a "premium" price.

The difference with venicetheseries is that we're being offered a product created with love with a pricetag upfront.

Good points Roger. It says a lot that people care enough to have this discussion. I for one, desperately (perhaps too desperately) want Venice, all indie soaps and soaps in general to succeed and thrive. I do think the people behind Venice have nothing but the best of intentions and I do not think it is up to them to change or save the genre. I was just hoping for as much access to as many people as possible for as long as possible.

Roger, this is off-topic, but you're so right about Friday Night Lights. I have totally been sucked in by that show and is one of the few I would pay for (sorry you don't get it for free anymore - hands down best drama right now).

As for Venice, I kinda wish Crystal had floated the idea of subscriptions on season one outside the fandom - this is a fantastic discussion and one I think the Venice producers should have seen before they made the final decision. I for one was hoping we wouldn't move to subscription until season two (mostly because of the new audiences question)

As an aside, watching this show come about is never boring...they do keep you guessing at every turn.

iTunes chargesNetwork streaming like how some of us watched GL forced me to sit through commercials from sponsors that could have led to the fears of Otalia affection. I support the pay system - and this is not the first time Web based shows have gone this root. Syfy Channels show Santuary started as a web episode subscription and is now a hit series with bigger budget on SyFy.

I would rather these hard working folks - in front of AND behind the scenes be paid for their hardwork. I also look forward, as an entertainment industry professional, to seeing this model succeed.

The Networks tried to claim there was NO revenue stream for profit sharing to writers and actors in the last contracts. Shows like this, proving them wrong, could redefining the industry and see hardworking entertainment professionals getting a piece of the pie.

I can't wait to watch this all shake out

And as a fan of the series I can't wait to see the show.

(side note - I bought Manhattanittes because I wanted to see it. Could have rented it on Netflixs but instead thought buying it would show my support to indie film makers who see the talent coming from daytime... To me - same same)

I applaud the Venice Team. We're in the infancy of the emergence of so-called Web soaps. Until such time as someone discovers the "magic bullet," the solution to how to produce these shows and make them financially viable, EVERY business model is legitimate. I'd wager that if there is one production that is a good candidate to attempt the subscription business model, it's Venice. They've floated the subscription idea from day one; they've polled their fanbase; they can sit at their kitchen tables with a computer and a calculator and crunch some numbers based on their assorted fanbases; and I'd guess they could come up with a pretty educated estimate as to how much financing they could bring in through a ten buck subscription. It may be a dismal failure; it may be a conservative success; it may go through the roof. We'll just have to wait and see. But I do believe someone had to try. And please don't get mad, folks. They've been completely transparent about this from the beginning.

Also forgot to add... as a series featuring LGBT stories in it's landscape what better way to show the 'mainstream' industry the kind of buying power for shows that tell my stories.

There is money and brand loyalty in the LGBT dollar. Also looking forward to seeing what impact comes out for Venice and therefore might do the same for other media that would tell WELL ROUNDED AUTHENTIC LGBT stories

Pat - yes Dr. Horrible did a great mixed free/for sale model and then went to dvd. Limited free access then purchase. Don't know how that model was measured for success monetarily but was one of the best success stories as far as webisodes go in viewership and buzz.

Roger - yes, web projects have to become financially sustainable in order to continue for multiple seasons. With the buzz behiind this particular show i thought the model would be prove viewership in S1 and get sponsor for S2. Especially with the merch money floating them I thought that would be the direction. But it is certainly possible for a small core fanbase to sustain a show as long as they have the money to shell out.

Amy brought up good points regarding the message of the show to present gay life as regular life could end up preaching to the choir.

I guess we'll see what the viewership numbers are from epi 1 to epi 2.

Now I'm going to try to go back to being excited to finally see it tomorrow!

Lots of good points here. I see Roger and Damon's points about most soaps on TV now being free, so the notion of charging for Venice, despite the good intentions of the talented ladies on the V team, might work against them. At the same time, though, "free" tv really isn't free, and the road to success for internet media to survive is going to be finding funding sources that go against the traditional model of commercials and sponsors.

I like DJ Bixby's idea of bonus material available for the subscribers. That way, people who want to sample the show get to do it for free and the subscribers get something for their buck like sneak previews, behind the scenes stuff, special features, etc. Maybe even a discount on Venice DVDs at some point down the line.

Frankly, I wish that P&G had tried to go with a subscription model. Given the built in fan base of 2+ million TV viewers, GL could have had viewers to pay $5 or $10 a month for 10 or 20 episodes.

My concern with Venice is that it is so new that it might be difficult to grow the shows audience base off one episode. Also, unless the show is streamed, pirated episodes will appear online pretty quickly, cutting into the subscription model.

Chele, love your commentn about the buying power of the gay and lesbian audience.

TestaBlog, I don't know how it will work, but I had the same thought - won't someone ultimately download the video from the VENICE website and upload it to YouTube? Seems like that happens with so many videos that appear on various websites. I see full episodes of ATWT downloaded from CBS.com each day and put on YouTube.

I would pay for Venice in a heartbeat. I think it is beautifully written, the cast is stellar, and it the quality of the shooting is amazing. I think 9.99 is a bargain to pay for it. Crystal Chappell is giving the fans what they want.

Just playing Devil's advocate but Cubfnatic, how do you know it is beautifully written? A lot of us are going on faith, including myself. We haven't really seen much other than an undoubtably impressive teaser. What about the people that don't know Crystal Chappell or Kim T. or Jessica from Adam? They don't come into this with as much faith as we do or in some cases even any awareness of Venice at all. What motivation do they have to spend money on an unknown, unproven entity?

I've always felt it was likely that Venice would have to be paid at some point, but I thought more than one episode would be free in order to really hook viewers in.

It certainly *is* true that not everyone can afford to pay for entertainment. However, for many others who most likely can, it might be just as easy to think about those things that do cost $10 that we usually have no trouble dropping money on: a movie ticket; fast food; a couple of packs of cancer sticks; a drink or two...the list is pretty endless.

I'm curious as to how people reacted to the news that "We Have to Stop Now" decided to go paid for their second season?

If you want unrestricted creativity that doesn't necessarily involve a load of product placement, this might be the cost for that.

One very interesting thing, though, is that I don't think I have seen anything come out here that didn't come out when the Venice Team came to Venice supporters and asked them what their thoughts were about subscription, free, tiered, DVD, extras, who they might lose from possible mainstream, ...

Except one thing that I haven't seen discussed here yet. And, this one thing seems to be something badly missed. And, that is that we, the fans, paid for them to produce Season 1 (as they did with people working for free etc.) by buying Venice merchandise - in large numbers. Once that was done they had to decide these questions about how to mount it on the web - and taking a long look to the future - how they could come out of Season 1 being able to produce Season 2.

And, while I'm at it, they don't want sponsorship because they want to be able to be creatively free. If that weren't so, why would we even be talking about this particular web soap?

Damon, in your original (brief LOL) post, you said, "This is the first time I have heard that VENICE The Series will cost money, the decision is bound to result in different reactions. The new indie soap had previously polled fans about their willingness to pay, and the response likely influenced the decision."

So, are you simply saying that you, like the rest of us didn't know their final decision until it was announced today? Or are you saying you missed entirely that they had discussed various ways to do this? And, no, I don't mean that to come off as snarky. I am genuinely trying to find out what you meant.

When the L Word was on Showtime, I paid to subscribe to that premium channel. The only show I've ever watched (until Nurse Jackie) on Showtime is the L Word. I don't think they limited their audience by being on a premium channel, any more than Venice will on the web.

How many people complained at each bad turn taken by Otalia? We were asked our opinion and desires there too and we were ignored. Crystal has never ignored us - she has been more than generous with her time and let's face it folks, she doesn't have to be as involved with her fandom as she is now.

I believe word of mouth and the first episode free should be more than enough to grow this fan base.

I'm not surprised that it went to this model, considering the struggles they have had so far. I think it's a bit of a bait and switch, as for months and months we heard every interview talk about how this was for all the fans--and not so much anymore, just those that can afford. I highly doubt that they are going to get anyone outside of the "Otalia" faithful, but then again, she could offer a bridge and a lot would step up to buy.

Considering we don't actually know ANYTHING about this project and the quality of it this is a big gamble, and I think one that will not pay off. Even with this annoucement I'm left with nothing but more questions and no real answers to how this would play out. It doesn't seem to give a whole lot of confidence to those outside of the Otalia faithful.

And to the comment I keep hearing about "it's only 10 dollars" thats easy to say when you have it. But for many people they don't have it. And it's sad to see people assume that they are just spending their money elsewhere frivolously--I'm thinking if 10 bucks on a web series is too much for someone, they aren't going out spending cash on movies or something.

Well on one hand it does alienate some viewers but on another if venice manages to be profitable it could help networks realize that soaps still have some life in them even if it is on the web. I'm going to pay the subscription because I watched Otalia and have followed Venie since it began.

cdawg, to me, it was always more than clear that discussion of the show being for everyone was a statement of inclusion, ... that gay folk would not be left as second class citizens again. There's no bait & switch to that.

And, certainly there are some people who will not be able to afford the subscription fee. But, this is capitalism, after all. Once it comes out on DVD, maybe those folk will be able to rent it.

@Donna - You are right. I meant I hadn't heard this as a possibility before, me. But Roger then told me that there had in fact been a poll somewhere.

@Tammy - Where do you live? Cancer sticks in NYC cost $11!

I am learning a lot from reading everyone's comments. It will be fascinating to see how all this plays out. Like many others, I would have preferred for Season 1 to be free and accessible to EVERYONE, released a DVD with lots of extras, and then consider charging for Season 2. By charging for all of Season 1 (except for #1 ep) they run the risk of alienating many, and failing to expand their audience beyond soap fans.

It has in no way been a bait and switch. The possibility of being subscription has been openly talked about from the very beginning. If people feel it was a bait and switch, they simply missed many, many discussions along the way.

I worry that only offering one episode before the pay-to-view kicks in will harm the series in the long term. Maybe it won't. Maybe a core group of fans will keep it afloat for a handful of seasons. (Though how will they keep actors on board without some hefty funding?) We'll see.

I wish they had gotten one experienced business manager from the very beginning to handle these issues. It is a huge undertaking that most likely don't truly understand. They have all done a great deal of work on this project while holding down jobs and families along the way.

For all that, I can give them props. Hopefully, too, they've learned as they've gone and will get better with the marketing, etc.

Really, though, for me it ALL comes down to the writing. The first episode is make or break. I won't sit through dreck like the last several months of Otalia ever again, free or not.

Sorry apparently cannot spell. Lets try this again.I am more than happy to pay the 10 bucks for Venice. I want to support something that means so much to so many different people. However I do worry very much about how the are limiting their audience. I admittedly know nothing about the industry or this sort of thing, but I feel there are a number of different ways for Venice to make money. I ultimately encourage those who are not in the "otalia" fandom to subscribe and participate because in the end we all want this to be successful.

Also I believed it was said that the merch paid for the season 1 that is about to air. A season they had planned to do much more indie in quality until the fans ran to buy merch in large numbers.

Buy making the first season for pay they now have the funding for season 2 which I assume means they can jump on film season 2 while the iron is hot. Waiting for DVD sales or more merch sales to fund season 2 could hinder the momentum. This way the season 2 money will start flowng in tomorrow night.

Seems sound to me...

Mighty they miss out on an even larger fan base - maybe but if it gives them the means to have the ability to keep raising the bar. Then I say - well done.

I'll gladly pay the 9.99 a season. Nothing is free in this world and shouldn't be. One way or another the show needed to be funded. This keeps sponsors out, we know what can happen when they get involved. Now the producers are free and clear to produce the show they want to. I will definitely support Venice and Crystal, Jessica, etcetera. It's a win win to me. I get a quality interesting show, the show gets funded to continue.

I am more than willing to pay $9.99 for a season. What this group of people have given to us as a community and as people is way beyond anything I have ever experienced and I believe you get what you give and if we aren't willing to give something back for all that they have given us we are completely selfish. They have freely given time, money and their commitment to us now it's time we return the favor and say thank you by helping them financially so they can continue to give us a beautiful show

I will be very interested to see what happens with this. Remember - Crystal is a pioneer of sorts. Ever since the strike ended, and the new deal was set into place re: web content, we (on the other side of the camera) have been wondering what it will mean for us. Nobody has tried to do anything like this - she may succeed, or she may fail, but SHE HAS THE CAJONES TO TRY IT, and she's the first of us who really is putting it out there to test the waters.

Many who come after her might be more successful because they will learn from her mistakes, but she is setting a precedent, and because of that, all of the writers out there who are interested in producing material out of the network/studio's control are incredibly grateful to her for being the first *in the mainstream* to see if the web is a viable financial alternative to network-controlled television.

I'm sure mistakes will be made, but many of us are as excited to see how this turns out. Nobody else is taking such a large step, and two years after so many of us put our careers on the line for a strike we believe in, I'm thrilled to see what happens...

I will pay the $9.99 subscription to watch Venice. For those of us who have been a witness to the process from the start this is reasonable. The Venice Team were alway honest in a possible fee. That being said I had hoped that for the fee we would get all the perks and the basic low-res episodes would be free aired maybe a few days later.

But all in all web series are still in their infancy. No one really knows yet if this will work or not but I have faith that they can pull it off. We are getting 12 episodes. I think thats pretty good for a web series.

I think the payment set-up and the entire way this project is being run is one, big mess. Announcing the payment details 24 hours before the show premieres is somewhat ratty. And this will just NOT fly for a lot of overseas viewers who can't pay for expensive broadband AND a tv series.

In fairness, though - Roger is absolutely correct about how there was a poll about this, early on. I don't think the Venice team has hidden the fact that people would be expected to pay for this.

I won't pay to view this: the price is too steep and, to date, nothing the Venice team has done so far has run smoothly. Even if the first episode is great, who's to say they can actually deliver anything as a follow-up?

I will pay for Venice. I trust this cast and crew to deliver. My wish is that they would allow for sponsoring subscriptions. It would be great, for those who can afford, to sponsor someone else's subscription. This can especially benefit international audience.

Amy, sorry I pulled my post after you commented! I thought I got carried away.

Yes, I will happily pay for Venice, BUT I think it should be free for some period of time to pull in NEW audience members, who have never heard of Otalia, or even CC.

International fanbase could be HUGE, and not just the lesbians who already know about Venice.

I am SO grateful to Crystal Chappell and Kimmy Turrisi, their vision, their ridiculously hard work and lack of sleep, and total commitment to Venice, as well as their kindness and generosity to their fans. I have complete faith in their integrity and commitment.

I support them in not taking on corporate sponsorship, so that they are NOT censored. That means that we fans have to pay, which is fine.

Snapper, the first season of Venice is already shot so your at least going to get what you pay for. I think of it like this I spend more than 10 dollars at walmart on hair products that I don't use so I don't have a problem spending 10 dollars on entertainment that I will enjoy. Now I understand that some people can't afford that (you know it'll end up on youtube somehow) plus how would they be able to afford to pay some of these actors some are flying from NY to LA, just because they love Venice doesnt mean that we who love Venice shouldnt help them out and hopefully it will guarantee a season 2. I do think they should of shown more than 1 episode before letting people decide if they want to a pay subscription.

@Tom - Hey Dude! I really hope that the web allows soaps to become a writer's medium again. Again because there is so much riding on this, I wish there was a chance to keep it accessible and see how profitable it could have become through the lucrative selling of merchandise and DVD's in the future.

@Kiran - This is SUCH a good idea, one I hope they consider. Not only is sponsorship is a fantastic idea, but what about giving a subscription of Venice to someone as a holiday gift? I don't know if there is that capability with PayPal.

I'm not opposed to paying for entertainment when it is completely upfront, ie, HBO or Showtime, or a ticket to a show. I accept this could be the future of web entertainment. I just wish this decision had been out and open months ago.

I'm an international viewer and I'm more than happy to pay for the suscription.

I'll be cynical and say that if you can afford internet then you should also be able to afford $10 for this show.I also believe that they are being gracious to offer the first episode for free. We go to movies, expend $10+ before hand for it with only a teaser to hook us with... after that we decide if it was worth it.

We already have our teaser. So I'll wait until the end of those 12 episodes and decide if it was worth my $10 and if I'll pay for 2nd season.

My partner had mentioned to me, immediately, that we should find out about sponsoring another subscription, just from thinking of some of the international markets & young lesbians needing to see positive role models. So, yeah, us, too.

If you have WATCHED the trailer for this show then asking the question should we have to pay for it? is absolutely ridiculous!!! I have no problem at all paying for something that is made of quality, love, and passion! I think it's smart to make the FIRST episode FREE so it gives everyone a chance to see what they will be paying for! I wish the movies that I've PAID to see were even just half as good as I BELIEVE this series will be! THANK YOU ahead of time Team Venice for this amazing new show!!!

This is such an interesting discussion and I've really enjoyed reading everyones intelligant viewpoints! I feel like we are in an interesting time where tv and their business model (especially soaps) is exciting/scary/confusing/awkward and there has been no ultimate solution/answer on the web yet. Personally, I'm going to pay for the subscription, heck I'd paid $20, but I'm a big soap fan and have an expendable income. I was very interested in tracking the YouTube views of this series, but I guess I'll look at it in another way now.

shallotpeel DonnaB I agree i would also pay so someone else can watch. Some people watch online because the are not ready to answer questions as to why they watch programs like Venice. I want people like that to be able to watch this series. Give the opportunity to people who want to watch it because they find comfort from it when they cant find it anywhere else. Sorry for the dramatic post!!! Who's ready for tomorrow. yeahhhhh!!!!

Given the decline in the U.S. dollar, I think that many international viewers would find U.S.$10 pretty cheap. Have you looked at the exchange rate?

I also think that you're being unfair to call the Venice team "ratty." As many people have stated, the Venice team polled their fans about various business models.

The reality is that people have to get paid some way, some how or there won't be any Venice. Look at the number of actors who had to pull out of Venice for jobs that paid. There are a number of GL actors who are working on Venice who are unemployed.

Jordan Clarke suffered a stroke on the way back from filming his role in Venice. What if someone got hurt on the set? Having insurance would take care of them. Insurance costs money.

I'd love for Venice to be free. But, like Guiding Light, I would be happy to pay to have it available to watch.

If CC is such a pioneer, what then is IB, Wed-locked (sp?), Gotham. To hear that, to me, discredits every other program out there. I to applaud CC for what she is trying but there is a history before it, and those who have managed to do the program for free and build that fan base. And to hear that they need this for the flight expenses and everything makes me think that the business plan isn't that strong for this.

I think she'll get exactly who you would think would pay to watch, the otalia faithful that would do pretty much do anything she said. Otherwise, I'm very curious to see how much the 3.5 mins will actually bring in in terms of new subscribers.

I am curious to see why this announcement came so close to the first episode.

@Brooke I understand where you are coming from. I've actually thought about this recently and come to the idea that a series like this wouldn't work if it were about teenagers because the target audience that would LOVE to watch it would't have credit cards and would be afraid to ask their parents because of coming out issues. I think Venice has a chance because Venice (and the Otalia fanbase) has always demographically been substained though an age group that is mostly past that point. I would totally be for (and donate to) a program to help younger viewers. I don't know where I would've been as a 16 yr old if the 16 yr old Bianca hadn't come out to Leo at the boathouse... I understand the impact of soaps on sooo many levels...

Will I pay 9.99? In a heartbeat. The promo looks beautiful. I am really excited about what this could mean for the future of soaps and I'm praying that this will be a huge success. I also think sponsoring others is a great idea for those who can afford it. I would gladly do that for some.

cdawg Venice did get announced before wedlocked and Gotham but I think they say "pioneer" because CC is trying to actually bring a soap to the web, charge for the show, make it profitable (hopefully) and show networks that soaps can last in other ways kind of like when soaps went from the radio to tv.

In mention of the poll, it was close to 50/50 for and against paying a fee to watch before it was taken down. It was pretty evident to me that they were going to charge after the first episode, when CC mentioned that everyone would get to see the kiss between Gina and Ani a couple of weeks ago. I think they held out so long in telling everyone because CC did not want to do it; but from a business standpoint charging was the only way to help ensure the possiblilty of a second season. CC was very honest when she said no funding, no second season.

For whatever it is worth, I believe that the people behind these indie series/soaps, etc. are all hoping for success for all of them - not just for themselves. And, specifically I know it to be true of CC & team about the other shows and of Martha Bryne about the other shows.

And, what Martha is doing follows the pattern of Amanda Tippings and Sanctuary.

I will gladly pay the $9.99. And I would be glad to sponsor others to watch if there were a way to do that. I also think a lottery could raise alot of money. I'd buy lots of tickets for the opportunity to watch the filming of season 2. When I was in HS my friend's father knew the stage manager over at Another World in Brooklyn and we spent our whole summer watching them tape the show. It was such a great experience and the actors were so nice.

Brooke, Beth, Damon, and anyone else I left out who spoke of their interest in this, ... Today one of the items they announced was that, yes, they thought subscriptions would make great Christmas gifts! So, to some degree or other they are aware of people possibly paying for other people. We may be going further than they here tonight - or not - they're just all crazy busy tonight.

One thing about the polling and about the discussions about free or subscription or whatever ... that happened more than one place. On twitter, on Vcomm, initially when people first came on Vcomm & signed on for Street Teams.

And, a whole part of building the anticipation about this has been a slow, methodical but fun, teasing. They have rolled this out in waves. So, people have today plus a week to decide about subscribing. Only time will tell, ultimately, if concerns about that item are in shadow over using a slow building tease to success.

Soap fans are voracious. The web is fast. I have every confidence personally, but then I have all along. It just feels right.

cdawg, again, we, the fans paid for the production of Season 1 via the merchandise we bought from the VShop. Concern after that was to how to pay for production of Season 2. No one has specifically drawn a line item between flying actors out & any particular money. They shot everything in one week. Frankly, if anyone wanted to read about the very transparent information that is still around, I would imagine they would think that their business model and production model are both sound. However, it's true that this is new territory.

Oh, and Venice episodes are set to be approximately 6 minutes. Where's 3.5 coming from? Gotham's first? Okay, but Gotham began there & is increasing, where next Monday's will be apx. 4", etc.

Crystal et al had asked right at the beginning as to whether we would pay for subscription. Although we are living in a recession and my own business is just hanging on, I will happily pay for this NECESSITY in my life.

Paying for Venice ensures that the show runs longer than just a couple of seasons. It also ensures that the Venice team retain full control over their baby, without restrictions being placed upon them if they had gone the route of sponsorship. Also, the money will ensure that they will be able to continue to produce a high quality product, along with paying for additional cast members/locations as the show moves forward.

At the end of the day, Crystal could have easily left Guiding Light and gone to Days without having to do this for us devoted fans. I believe many of us would have followed her to DOOL just on the back of her outstanding portrayal of Olivia. Instead, Crystal and the team not only put their heart and soul into this product, but also long hours.

I don't feel in any way exploited. I believe that they only want to give us fans a high end product.

The subscription idea has been mentioned from the very beginning on the Venice site. Crystal asked people on twitter their ideas and if they would be willing to pay 9.99? A huge majority of the people said yes. I don't see where everyones shock comes in unless they weren't paying attention. I always planned on paying. It will be well worth it for all the time these people have put in.

Would I pay 9.99 for a series that shows gay relationships in a normal and respectful way?? Of course I would, its a bargain as far as I can see!!!

I know Crystal, Kimmy and Hope have poured their hearts and energy and talent into this show and know it will be worth every penny!

And we all know network television is too scared to show gay relationships in equality with their heterosexual couples, so I am thrilled to find an outlet that will. (hello CBS, I am talking about you and Otalia! where was the kiss?)

I am thrilled to see the free premier tonight and will be standing in line with my credit card to pay for the rest of the season.

I am a fan of Crystal Chappell first & foremost, the idea that she wanted to give her fans Venice is awesome. Then she goes & gets other talented soap actors & actresses is fantastic. To expect them (I'm also talking about the production crew) to work for free in this day & age is just absurd. I'm watching Venice whether their is a fee or not because I want to see it not just because of Otalia either. I hope that today is just the start for an already successful Team Venice.

I will pay the $9.99, because I know it will be worth every penny! I also want them to be able to give us a Season 2, 3, 4... etc. Just a reminder that the FIRST EPISODE IS FREE, so you have a week to decide not less than 24 hours. People will see the talent and quality of this show and know it is worth every penny!

Crystal is trying to give us what we want; what we have been begging for, for more than a year now. I don't mind helping her, Kimmy and Hope achieve that by paying a $10 subscription. If we support her, she'll support her fans.

I don't have facebook so I'll comment here but I'm surprise some are saying $10 for 11 episodes plus behind the scene footage is too much. Its almost a dollar an episode. Itunes are selling mp3 for $1 and this a video. TV episodes will run you $2-$3 and rightly so cause runtime is longer. Frankly they are not overcharging behind the scene footage will extend the runtime. I know in the past, they have said that could extend runtime to 10 min each week. Its rather a freakin steal or comparable to a movie ticket.

Katie--when I hear CC called a pinoeer it seems off, since she was not the first person out there to do a web series/soap/whatever you want to call it. I've thought all along that there's been that attitude towards that project, that CC and her work partners were the first ones ever to do this, which does turn me off.

Well I do hope it is a success, and they managed to put out more information about it beyond the 140 characters. It's good to know that CC can still sell a bridge, and the Otalia faithful is willing to do whatever she asks for the project. I think its great she is trying to give back to her fans.

More and more it seems as if this will be a one season thank you to the Otalia fans, and trying to basically re-create what was going on on GL without censors or something.

It still leaves me with a lot of questions, and since I'm not cool enough for any of them to respond to me on twitter, I guess I'll wait to see what other information comes out. I hope for those so excited it's everything they want to see.

I think this just proves the adage, you can't be all things to all people. At the end of the day, any type of production with professional actors (even ones who are your friends) can't go on forever on the total cheap...particularly when it comes to trying to schedule future seasons...at some point you can't cancel paying gigs for free ones. And at least Venice has an entire season in the can - I think Gothams model of shooting as they go is entirely different, and I'm wondering how that will feel in comparison. I'm glad we have both to watch unfold.

Sure, if they had kept the series free, they would have more viewers (undoubtedly it shrinks the potential audience by a huge percentage). However, making money or just breaking even with web productions is still an ever evolving question - most web producers will tell you ads on their sites bring in chump change...and not enough to support a professional cast that Venice has (mind you first season I think the cast worked for free, but in order for this series to be ongoing, then real costs need to come into play). So sure, they were able to make season 1 happen, mostly on merch sales...but once you start paying people, well let's be honest, you need a whole lot more money.

Could Crystal have done something on a smaller scale with fewer actors, sure, but it was her choice to get a little more ambitious (and honestly, that cast is pretty stellar), and I think we'll appreciate the results.

Even though the web and web programming has been around long enough that there's an entire generation that doesn't know what life was like before it (scary, i know)...how to successfully produce for it is still largely unconquered territory. Sure, I at first thought the subscription was a big mistake ...but now I think, why not? Heck, if they find it doesn't work, they'll probably try something else. They're gonna make mistakes amid the successes (they're not gods, in case some of you tend to forget that), so I'm gonna cut them some slack on see where this goes for now.

What I appreciate is that they're at least trying this model...had I hoped that they could work more on broadening their audience? Most definitely. But I'm curious to know if a subscription model CAN work, so in that respect, more power to them and I hope it works. And if it doesn't, I hope they're willing to re-evaluate.

Oh and to those that think one episode isn't enough...well there is actually a lot of data on web series which shows viewership declines sharply after the first episode...so in that respect, they probably made the right move to try and grab whatever momentum they have...its all a big crap shoot, but I heard CC likes craps, so there you go.

I will be paying the 10 dollars to watch Venice. I understand that a lot of people are tight on money these days, but there are plenty of ways to save so you CAN afford Venice. For instance: cut back on cigarettes, alcohol, junk food, etc. Of course, I'm like anyone else and would love to have anything for free, but there are some things worth paying for and I believe Venice is def worth it.

Crystal didn't have to create Venice, but she did it FOR US. I for one am extremely grateful for EVERYTHING she has done for the gay community and everything she continues to do. The Venice Promo looks amazing..the cinematography, the actors, the music...it's all top notch from what I can see.

I want Venice to continue for as long as it possibly can so I will do everything in my power to support it and to support crystal, kimmy, and hope. My only concern is the audience outside of our "otalia" fan base. I want everyone to see venice...even people who think they won't like it. I thought the pre ordered DVD's would be a good idea and of course I think i've already bought everything from the V store.

Basically I have faith in CC. She has yet to let us down and I don't think she ever would. She is a smart business woman and she is as loyal to us as we are to her. I trust that she'll do whats best for Venice and for us the fans.

Cdawg, Crystal is a pioneer because, yes web shows have been done before, but none have been done like this one. No other web series was as interactive with the fans (if at all) as this one. They make the fans a part of the show by having us create the logo and using fan-submitted music. They've told us what was going on every step of the way, from the very beginning stages when they didn't even know if Crystal could play a role to telling us what was happening on set behind the scenes during shooting, complete with twitpics that they sent to us which were later used for various Venice articles. We get to know all of that first. They ask for our input. They've hired fans to be part of the Venice team. They talk with us regularly about anything, not just Venice. You really get to know the people behind the project and they get to know us as much as they can. It's an experience I've never seen before. Usually, you hear about a show that's in development, then wait for it to come out and that's it.

In addition to that, most other web series' have been crappy in quality and acting level. We can tell from the promo that at least the production value of this one is higher quality than many others. Also, this will be the first one with such a regular viewing schedule. When was the last time there was an episode of IB or 3Way? You have to wait forever between seasons if there is even another season to wait for. How long do you usually have to wait between episodes of web shows? Most likely, more than a week. Gotham is every 2 weeks. Anyone But Me had long waiting in between episodes and they only had about 6 or 7 of them. Look what happened to GirlTrash. No money and it was scrapped. Granted they're trying again with a movie, but they've waited so long, they may have lost their audience. Venice is planning an episode a week. And not little 3 min episodes like many others. 12 episodes a season, 4 seasons a year is basically an episode a week for an entire year. What other web series has done that?

I personally would have preferred to not have to pay. Not only because of my own financial situation, but because I wanted them to get the widest possible audience, which obviously won't happen now. But no, they didn't just spring this subscription on us 1 day before the premiere. They have said repeatedly from the beginning that subscriptions were a possibility and asked our opinion about that. Maybe after they see the numbers from 1st to 2nd week viewing, they'll consider the free low-res option that they discussed before. I think that would be a good option for maybe a week after the subscribers have seen each episode.

Sponsorship would have been nice, but along with that comes someone else's say on the content of the show, which would defeat the purpose entirely.

So yes, I'll pay and I support Venice in every way. I can't wait to see the premiere tonight. And I hope to see an Emmy win in the future of Venice!

Guess I'll be next lol's ..I've waited a while before posting. I to enjoyed reading everyone's comments and opinions as not everyone agrees. I take everyone's opinion into consideration and I've read some pretty harsh things concerning those who can't pay. Like I stated in another forum, we need to think before we say. The Otalia/venice family and friends is a large community that has fought together many times before for what we believe in. Our opinions were welcomed many places, but no one slammed anyone. This topic has done just that. I understand that many fans won't be able to pay to watch Venice and it saddens me. Everyone has been so hyped for this day to get here and now people are being called names and bashed cause of their opinions. I don't wanna see friendships tarnished because of a web series. In my honest opinion, I don't think things were thoroughly thought through in the early stages of the production. There should have been a post on Vcomm site when it first opened that there would be a charge, Not a poll. There are alot of reasons certain people can't pay. To some people $10.00 is nothing, but to others ,it's alot. It was said before, everyone will be able to watch venice..where did that go? it was said that a free low res would be availble and a high res..where did that go? I'm just pointing out things. It was stated, there will be 5 seasons a yr. That adds up to $49.95 a yr. Some say it's nothing to pay for it, but the other web series have not asked for a dime. The other series have not sold even 1/4 of merch as Venice has. The other web series have great actors too. I htink since the 1st season has already been paid for, it should be free and during that time, it would have brought more fans to the site and got them interested enough to want to pay and have time to save money to pay for it. I basically just want everyone to be able to watch Venice as we've all been excited for months to see it. I think a donation button on the site for the 1st season was a good idea also. Can't we all Love each other and respect everyone's opinion's :) Peace out..Cheers and enjoy Venice tonite ;)

Ok...so I watched...and I swooned, and I went thud on the floor and squealed in delight...and I know Im not the only one. Before the airing, I knew I would front the money to watch. This has not changed, only strengthened my resolve. Look folks, no one wants to pay for anything in this world, but its a necessity to keep things going! I have been out of work for a year. It sucks, and Im always worried about money. However, I knew from the get-go that we were looking at the possibility of paying a fee for this...so I was sure to keep a bit aside for it. Well, time is here, they are needing funding, I am a faithful fan, it means a lot to me to support it, and I will give my share, knowing full well Im going to get plenty in return. I want a second season. And a 3rd, and 4th...As time passes, they may come up with some other ways to generate revenue to keep the project going the way they want it to. Right now this seemed like the best route to take. Its a new project, and like learning to dance, they may have to step on a couple toes before they can get into the groove. Crystal, and all the VTeam, are our family. They've done so much for us, with us. It upsets me to see people all over them like this...over money. ICK. For all they've done for us over the past year or so, we should show some more respect, no matter the opinions.Cograts to the VTeam for a wonderful 1st episode!!! Hugs n Kisses!!!

***APPRECIATE MORE, DEMAND LESS*** comes to mind right about now! i have been up since the first amazingly delicious VENICE episode aired. i went online, paid my subscription and watched fabulous 'behind the scenes' footage. it's about time, once again, to realize...it's Crystal Chappell's world, we're just lucky to live in it'! follow @crystalchappell, @KimmyT22, @nycwriterchick, @LesliePenny on Twitter. you can ask them for just about anything and they seem to deliver! they have worked endlessly to create a project for the fans, as promised, one that we asked for...nothing but love and thanks should be spoken here! #smile4Cathie xo♥♥xo

I think we as a fan base need to realize that there needs to be income from somewhere to continue this series. It isn't cheap and honestly the production values for a show working on a limited budget are pretty damn amazing. So far it seems the Venice team is trying to stay away from corporate sponsorship, because they want to be able to put out content restricted by nothing more than they are willing to do.

I look it it this way Crystal and Kimmy have said from the beginning that this show is a labor of love for them and the fans. They have asked our input on many things and are even supporting creative talents from their fan base. We as a group need to look at ourselves as their sponsors. Without our help how long do think they would be able to continue. I'm glad to be able to support a show with such potential.

I think the 9.99 is well worth it to help support the production team and the actors that have been so giving to us.

My only slight gripe is that as a graphic artist I really wish that with a paid subscription you got episode downloads of some sort. Even with the downloads, I'll still buy the DVD..I just wouldn't have to wait so long to do graphics.

I was all for supporting and even gave my $9.99 towards the series, however, if there are 4 seasons in a year, I may renig. That's $40.00/year that I just don't have in this downward economy to watch an internet based 5 minute show that adds up to 1 hour footage for $9.99. If they offer subscribers a 1/2 off renewal fee then, yes, that is a huge possibility that I will continue my subscription.

About the merchandise... some people just cannot fit in those panties and some people do not live in a climate to wear T-shirts during the winter season. I say up the merchandise to more of a variety instead of panties that will not fit many body types in all different colors. Bring on ballcaps, pj bottoms, belt buckles, even pens and I will definitely buy... I can really use a pen, at work!

Also about paying the actors, of course they have to get paid. I look at, they filmed these 12 episodes (1 hour total in length or so) in 1-2 weeks for the whole season... of which will be shown in a total of 3 months. That's very quick work for the amount of duration of play. How much would these actors make per hour if paid? Who knows... just sayin.