2019-01-29T05:36:13ZFluxBBhttps://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=17851]]>https://forum.openstreetmap.org/profile.php?id=686742019-01-29T05:36:13Zhttps://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=736203#p736203Update of NH-Mapping

On 30.11.2018 Morth published their new list of all NHs. Now they use completely the new numbering. So it is easier to compare and control our mapping.In the wiki-page of NHs with new numbers I added the Morth lengths.Comparing Results:1) Morth doesn‘t take care of road segments, which belong to 2 or 3 different NHs. So they have about 1300km of roads in their list, which do not exist.2) For a lot of NHs there are great differences betwee OSM and Morth values.Special case is NH27:Morth =4112.6km but OSM = 3544.4kmI controlled with a) Online router (with OSM data) : 3490km b) Google routing engine : 3390kmSo it seems the Morth value is false and NH44 remains the longest NH in India.Nevertheless the OSM mapping is not perfect and we should controll the NHs, where the difference is greater than about 20%.

3) Morth lists NHs , which actually do not exist (or are planned or are under construction).I made here remarks in the wiki-list.

]]>https://forum.openstreetmap.org/profile.php?id=27432019-01-25T19:03:47Zhttps://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=735829#p735829We have now about 125, 000 km of NHs mapped in India. That means an increase of 27,000 km in two years.I have controlled all NH-relations. Using Osmose I added missing bridges, tunnels and connections.Only one relation has been deleted. Thanks to all mappers!I did not look at the uncountable ammount of errors beside the NHs!A problem is still the NH183. Mappers in Kerala again renamed it to NH220.The NH 220 is this : NH20 near Chaibasa, Gobindpur, Hata, Tiringidihi, Rairangpur, Jashipur, NH20 near Dhenkikot The NH starts at NH83; the NH183A starts at NH183 and not at NH220!Long ago I proposed to use the name-tag for the old numbers. So Mapnik shows both numbers.

By the way the longest NH is for sure NH44 (3663KM); NH27 has only 3538km

„a route_master structure“ : I think thats not the right way. It's for other purposes (bus lines...).

„It just seems odd that only one side is measured.“:

Our important references in India are the publications and decisions of MORTH (ministery). MORTH measures like I do in the statistic.When I created the statewise relations, we didn't know, to which grade the Nhs have been mapped. I added a lot of missing Nhs. Now we have a good overview about what has been done and what is missing. And we have the strange situation that our statistics are much better than MORTH.For example in Madhya Pradesh : there are about 8100km of Nhs, but MORTH means there are about 5200km!!!!!But there are still Nhs which are not mapped in OSM.So for a longer while we need the statewise statistic.

The reason for the length problems is : In India Nhs are mapped as trunks. And a street is a NH if it is declared by the ministery.In Germany there is no trunk without double carriageway or direct crossings with other streets. So here it easy to calculate the length by division by 2.Approximately 70% of all Nhs in India don't have double carriageways and furthermore there are a lot of way-segments which are shared by two or three Nhs. So length calculations are quite difficult.

The mapping density in India will increase. So the number of members of the nationalwide relations will increase also. The fact that too big relations can't be displayed in the browser is not so important. In JOSM they can still be edited. In a few years we should examine if changes have to be made.

Besides the relation problem : Concerning the Nhs there is a lot of other work to be done :- bridges are missing- a lot of exits are missing- at trunk junctions trunk-links are not complete- trunk exits are mapped in many different ways (trunk-link, unclassified, secondary...)- the newly constructed second carriageway for many Nhs are not completely mappedand so on.So there is enough to do.

I am not sure how to interpret the attitude of Heinz_V (the phrase "I won't update this pages any longer" seems a bit too knee-jerk), but according to https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Rel … te#Members, it has been practice for road relations to contain all members of the highway, rather than in one direction only.

According to the wiki, the slip roads are given appropriate the role "link".

What I will do for now though is review the NH765 relation and remeasure it as appropriate. I believe the average length, is the full length of the ordinary members plus half of the length of the forward/backward members, but I may have fallen behind with what the standard was since the mailing list is my main port of call.

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Update: 16:04

Conditional on a consensus, we could adopt a route_master structure for the NHs and SHs. It would allow each direction to have its own relation and then we can easily get the average distance if measurement matters. However, I am not sure if we would then need the state-level relations any more.

]]>https://forum.openstreetmap.org/profile.php?id=381562016-07-24T11:18:22Zhttps://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=601499#p601499Amaroussi made in TALK-IN suggestions in the thread „National Highway relations are unacceptably huuuuge!“

Because I have created most of the mentioned relations I want to tell here my opinions. (I' m not subscribed to TALK-IN.)Amaroussi wants to install a system „system similar to the E-Road network“.This system doesn't exist in Europe. Some highways are mapped with such relations (E75 and some other), but only because it was the idea of the single mapper. There are still a lot of highways in european states with more than 2000 members.Amaroussi wrote : „the main OpenStreetMap site is refusing to load the main NH44 relation“That's right, but that's a problem of the actuall server-capabilities (causes time-out). After the next server upgrade this will surely be resolved.Amaroussi wrote :“editing them is also slowing down JOSM significantly“I loaded into JOSM more then 10 000km of NH-relations of India and I don't notice a slowing down????

Planemad wrote :“ Have always found handling and modifying these relations painful.“Mapping in Europe, where the map is much more complicated than in India, I find easily mapping situations where changements are difficult and where I don't make edits because of missing knowledge. And I'm a quite expirienced mapper.

So I don't agree with the suggestions of Amarousii and Planemad.I made the two wiki-pages (NH with new number and Nhs statewise), controlled and updated them up to now.The result is : We have a list of all mapped Nhs in India with a accuracy MORTH can only dream to have. Specially we have controll over the exact length of all mapped Nhs in each state.Isn't this a strong argument against the proposed nonsense bill. The „illegal“ OSM offers better results than the ministry!The results in the statewise-page are only valid if the relations are mapped as described.Now the relations of NH765 and NH44 in Telangana don't show any longer the correct length.Amarousii (not a Newbie) has added both directions!If the local Indian mappers want the proposed system, I disagree but will accept it.There are not so much rules in OSM. One is : „ You can map what you want“. Only vandalism will be reverted. And the proposal isn't vandalism.But you must understand that I won't update this pages any longer. Then that's the task of others with „better“ ideas.

I had long discrussions with local mappers regarding this points. But most mapper dont understand the difference between trunk with motorroad=yes and a real motorway. In the advertisment of india is every new width road an expressway and this confuse sometimes new mapper.

I reverted the Allahabad Bypass while it is part of the golden quadrilateral Delhi - Kolkatta and this project is classified as trunk.With best regards

]]>https://forum.openstreetmap.org/profile.php?id=125982016-02-22T11:19:37Zhttps://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=578954#p578954We have three new Nhs.

NH563 : I have extended the NH to Khammam. (MORTH still has problems where Telangana and Andhra Pradesh are!!)

NH717A and NH717B in Sikkim. Are there any mappers with local knowledge? I cann't find these Nhs.

]]>https://forum.openstreetmap.org/profile.php?id=27432016-02-19T10:35:20Zhttps://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=578421#p578421I have controlled the mapping of motorways in India. At the moment the following roads are mapped as motorways:

The Wiki of India says :"Note: use this highway classification for greenfield projects not for upgraded National Highways in India!" Is this accepted??? Not all listed motorways fullfill this criteria!We should find a consense, what are motorways and also what are trunks with motorroad=yes.

]]>https://forum.openstreetmap.org/profile.php?id=27432016-02-06T22:46:17Zhttps://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=575861#p575861I have integrated the newl defined NHs (20.1.2016). Changes were necessary for NH9, 34,334,334C.Now we have additional 57km NH without a new number (Ghaziabad to Meerut) ?????????]]>https://forum.openstreetmap.org/profile.php?id=27432016-01-31T22:29:41Zhttps://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=574635#p574635Total length of all Nhs in OSM = 99048.8 km

Included are : 97824,3 km : Nhs with new numbers 1030,9 km : Nhs wthout a new number 193.6km : Nhs without any numberAll defined Nhs are included ( even the lately defined).

Not included are:

about 740km : not mapped Nhs in OSMabout 80km : planned, yet not existing Nhs?? : streets in big cities, which are mapped as trunkstrunk_ links at big NH crossingsexpressways, which are mapped as motorways

I created for each state a gpx-file of all Nhs. If someone is interested, I can send it.According to this data we have mapped about 99,3% of all Nhs.

I have updated the length in the list with new numbers.

Which is the longest NH in India??

NH27 = 3536.9km NH44 = 3536.0km

]]>https://forum.openstreetmap.org/profile.php?id=27432016-01-31T07:44:40Zhttps://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=574461#p574461I have finished the control of statewise NHs.So I can promise : no more relations!

We have mapped 97991,2km

Not mapped are about 800km (NH215,715A,333B,566,133B,137,148B,254, 108,731,702,306A,707A,709A,11, 334A).

So the total length of all NHs is about 98791km (without expressways) and 99.2% are mapped!!!!

I tried to find reasons for the differences to MORTH in Gujarat :a) in OSM all Nhs are mapped with high precisionb) Morth list the NH58, but the NH58 is in Rajasthanc) I couldn't find an explanation for the big differences.

In the other states the situation is similar.

Maybe there are additional NHs which are defined the last two years and are actually not in OSM and MORTH-list. The publications in gazette of India must be controlled.

Actually there is a little edit-war between me and another mapper. He insists that the new NH116 in West Bengal is mapped as NH41(old number). What can be done????? Is it possile that openstreetmap.in renders the old numbers?

]]>https://forum.openstreetmap.org/profile.php?id=27432016-01-22T09:54:52Zhttps://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=572784#p572784The reason for all this relations is :a) old and new numbers for the NHsb) contradictory and unprecise publications about NH length.

The NHs now have the following relations:1) relation with the old number („network=IN:NH“)2) relation with the new number („network=IN:NH“ and a note "new number")3) relation for the statewise length (with „network=IN:NH:XX“) parts, where two NHs share the same road have a separate relation (here „ref=NHXX;YY“)

The main problem with relations are:Newbies delete a road and map it new; all memberships to relations are destroyed.Better : divide the street in two parts ( one part at the beginning, short); delete the long part; continue mapping the short part. So all relations are still correct.

With the statewise relations we can exactly calculate the NH-lengths. I have controlled now upto Madhya Pradesh.

Results upto now : the Morth-list is full of errors; we have mapped 98-99% of all NHs.

PlaneMad : run your script once more, so comparing to my results is easier and maybe we find the script errors.