Nuhauser wrote on Oct 12, 2015, 19:05:Is complaining about not being able to choose a server or see your ping not allowed anymore? That's what I find unforgivable in this otherwise fun game. I don't like when my avatar freezes for 3 seconds and then dies. I also find it annoying when I hit someone 10 times and they hit me twice and I die. Sure, it's great when it's the other way around. Taking out 3 people in a row who can't even see me because of the difference in our ping has nothing to do with my skill though, and just makes the game feel cheap. Give me a server browser so I can select based on ping and I might buy. As it is, it just seems like a random "fish in a barrel" simulator half the time.

No server browser? Not even a PING counter? How the fuck can they get away with this shit???!!! Fuck EA a million times. May they be impaled on a giant Reaper cock and suffer a million years. Needless to say, even after Slick's very slick and attractive few positive posts, Im not touching this with a 10 foot pole.

This isn't aimed at gamers, it's aimed at the casual audience. This isn't meant to be competing with Battlefield 4. When you consider it for what it is it's pretty decent, especially for an EA game.

The Escapist cannot be trusted as a source. It has used anonymous comments from Glassdoor before in relation to Carbine Studios and which were refuted by employees of the company.

Kxmode wrote on Oct 12, 2015, 21:18:Check this out!

Escapist article: CS7 indicated that Cloud Imperium Games Montreal entered into a joint venture partnership with Turbulent to continue to develop and sell the crowdfunding platform that was built for Star Citizen to other companies - and that backer money was being used for this project.

They didn't even bother hiding this. It's all out there.

October 7, 2014 – Marc Beaudet (CEO of Turbulent) writes “We thank Cloud Imperium Games for taking a risk with us and for contributing conceptually and commercially to making HEAP C3MS fantastic for content monetization.”

April 7th, 2014 – TURBULENT’s HEAP C3MS platform was recently selected by Behaviour Interactive for the development of their Warhammer 40,000 Eternal Crusade Pre-order Founders Program store and their new website which will be unveiled next spring during E3.

So the Backers basically gave CIG money to develop a game, who then funded the development of a crowdfunding/preorder platform with Turbulent (Star Citizen’s webmasters) that Behaviour (also working on Star Citizen) then took and used for Warhammer 40,000 Eternal Crusade; another game that's not Star Citizen or Star Citizen related.

We don't know the terms. For instance, Turbulent may have developed it for a lower price on the basis that they could licence it to other developers - that would BENEFIT backers. Even if that wasn't the case, backers funded a system needed for the game. It really doesn't matter who else it was licenced to as it was something CIG needed. I see the Legion Of Derek™ is getting pretty desperate. You haven't demonstrate harm to backers.

Hire a hooker and stop taking out your sexual frustration on Star Citizen.

The modules were worked on individually in order to speed up development, so that content would be playable as it became ready. That was why Star Marine was branched, though the serious delays made that a bad decision in hindsight. Now they're looking to merge them into SC2.0, which is the basis for both the game and the PU. Arena Commander, Star Marine and the Social Module will becomes sub-components rather than standalone entities.

CJ_Parker wrote on Oct 12, 2015, 13:37:We could be MUCH further along if Christ Roberts would have kept the scope in check and if the development of the game would have been done the "right" away around by first building all the "boring" backend stuff, the netcode etc.It probably also would have helped to get some serious consulting expertise on the choice of the engine. I have a feeling that UE4 or building their own engine would have been a much better choice.

That's exactly what CIG has been doing, building the backend systems. That includes 64-bit precision required for large world maps, DX12 for drawcalls and multithreading, the netcode and grid system for the PU, the modular ship and component systems, the building style and components, etc.

As for choice of engine, UE4 is no more equipped for the game that CryEngine - in fact it's more geared towards console development. Building their own engine would have taken significantly longer and wasn't an option because they didn't know how much money was going to be raised.

CJ_Parker wrote on Oct 12, 2015, 13:37:In essence the project has so far suffered from focusing on promotional material and to keep the ship sales rolling instead of actual gameplay delivery.If you look at Christ Roberts' long overdue (at the time) explanation in May why Star Marine was two months late (again: at the time) you will find that one of the major reasons he gave was that they finally realized that it might make sense to first develop the backbone, you know, the architecture that will hold all these modules together one day (hopefully).

That's like the most backwards development ever. They should have laid the groundwork at the start of the project, of course, and not two and a half years in. There are HUGE risks now if it turns out that connecting Arena Commander, the FPS, the social module etc. requires major reworks of these modules that would not have been necessary if all the groundwork would have been done in the first place.

Finally, just look at the monthly reports. I get that marketing is important but CIG is constantly in crunch mode for "reveals" either at PAX East, E3, Gamescom, CitizenCon or PAX AU.

One of the most common complaints by developers working under a publisher that you will find when a project does not live up to expectations is that the developer will blame the publisher's demands for demos and promo material.

The demos aren't just for presentations. If you look at the SC2.0 demo which was shown off at Gamescom and CitizenCon it's a core part of the game that will be released to players soon. Any crunch needed for those presentations only benefits the game as a whole. Unlike a traditional publisher they can't just show a trailer at E3 and then work on the game for another year or two - the content gets released to backers. You mention racing and that's a great example as it was built to test the handling of ships and they decided to polish it up and reveal it at Gamescom in August 2014, with it released a month later; at Gamescom earlier this year they did the same thing with the Social Module and it was released the same month. All the pressure those reveals put on them advances development of the game rather than slowing it down.

Kosumo wrote on Oct 12, 2015, 06:44:Any chance of a rundown/review of you Citizencon theyarecomingforyou?

Sure thing. Here's some pictures I took, including a couple of me with Chris Roberts. A friend took some pictures of me with Erin Roberts, Sandi Gardiner and Dave Haddock, which I hope to get soon.

Presentation

The presentation was much better than Gamescom or any of the earlier presentations. I was underwhelmed by the PU demo as it was very similar to the one from Gamescom - however, given that it should be playable soon that's fine. Speaking to Erin and Chris they said SC2.0 is definitely going to be this year and sooner than we think, though that latter statement has been used too often to have any meaning.

Squadron 42

The S42 cinematic was fine but didn't blow me away. Apparently the hair tech is being worked on and they will be increasing the fidelity, so it's not final by any means. The Morrow tour was much more impressive and the livestream video doesn't do it justice. The game was running silky smooth and the fidelity of the Idris was stunning. There were quite a few bugs but that's just a reminder that the footage is real and actively being worked on.

Contextual System

Speaking to Erin we're going to see the Use button disappear and be replaced by a contextual system. He compared it to Sherlock Holmes whereby looking at an item will highlight whether it can be interacted with. The interaction system, which was shown with the floating text above the character, will be time sensitive meaning that other characters won't stand there waiting indefinitely. If you break eye contact with characters they will respond accordingly. For instance, a bartender might get annoyed if you walk away and next time won't be as quick to serve you.

Referral System

The referral system seems a bit crass but given that the game doesn't have a traditional marketing campaign it makes sense and will be an effective way to grow the player base. The player count has already increased substantially and should hit one million soon.

Starmap

The Starmap was very impressive and being released at the same time was a nice touch. It gives a bit of extra insight into how the universe will work. Going back to my discussion with Erin, CIG won't reveal all the additions made in patches meaning that star systems and other content will be added without warning. That means players will always be motivated to explore the universe.

Cast

The cast reveal was great and there really is a lot of talent - major Hollywood actors, a couple of cast members from Games Of Thrones, etc. They're not just big names but they're extremely talented. Speaking to Sandi the game will be appearing on the front of a couple of magazines next month, including PC Gamer. One of these will be an indepth interview with Mark Hamill and give information about his role in the game.

Hardware

The Saitek hardware looks really good in person. Really interested to see how it develops.

Summary

Overall it was a very good presentation. It won't silence the critics but it's a lot harder to claim now that substantial progress isn't being made. The priority now is for them to get SC2.0 out there and in the hands of backers, as that's when the game itself starts to take shape. They also need to add content at a much greater rate, which should be possible now that the development branches have been unified. What's also interesting is that they showed the number of staff at each point in development, which undermines claims that they're running out of money - when the hangar launched they only had 40 staff, they had just 140 last year and only expanded to 200+ staff this year.

PS - On a personal note the people I met at CitizenCon were wonderful people. I went not knowing anybody and now I have made some great new friends. The people I spoke to were extremely reasonable - they had their concerns about the game, they had their own ideas about how to improve it and they were open to differing opinions. They weren't blind zealots like many here would have you believe.

Kosumo wrote on Oct 12, 2015, 06:28:A lot of good talking points there Krovven.

but do you not think they should have laid their marriage out there to start with to avoid all of this?

- No.

Well It think they should have, it would have been the open, transperant way to go about it. To not do it only make it look deceptive. (when it finial came out, why hide it?)

Why do you think they should not have?

It wasn't hidden, it just wasn't promoted. Heck, their children appeared on the original livestream back in 2012. She is a professional in her own right and doesn't want to simply be seen as Chris Roberts' wife, which is perfectly reasonable. The relationship between Travis Day and Chelsea wasn't discussed but it wasn't hidden either; Ben Lesnick is married to Alexis but while they have talked about their relationship it's rare and that's entirely up to them. People's personal lives are personal and the public has no right to pry.

Again, nobody has demonstrated how Sandi Gardiner is unfit for the job. People need to learn the difference between nepotism and cronyism. People go into business with family members all the time and there is no harm in that, nor is there any obligation to declare such a thing. She's been involved with the project since the very beginning and has seen it grow. When she started there was no job and no money - it was a gamble that paid off, one that few people would have made. The only people criticising her are the Legion Of Derek™ and the International Haters Collective™.

theyarecomingforyou wrote on Oct 11, 2015, 19:58:As has been obvious all along, the haters aren't interested in legitimately criticising the game - they just want to attack it. No matter what you show them they'll find a way to complain about it.

One of the early stretch goals was to provide 'celebrity voice-acting', back at the $5m mark. That's exactly what they've done. Yet still the Legion Of Derek attacks, proclaiming it a waste of money. If you don't like the game then don't buy it but don't troll every topic about the game. I don't like fake tan or anal bleaching but I don't search out discussions about them to express my disdain, I simply ignore them.

The world would be a better place if everybody focused their energy on constructive endeavours rather than attacking those willing to take risks and innovate.

Then come back here and tell us you still believe everything you wrote above. And don't you dare respond until you fully watch both videos. That's the condition for further discussion.

I don't accept conditions from Legion Of Derek supporters. That video was just a rant from a self-obsessed internet personality - nearly as unwatchable as PewDiePie. Devoting so much time to your hatred of the game is not healthy.

As for the discussion about Sandi Gardiner, she has achieved unparalleled success in crowdsourcing. The fact that she's married to Chris Roberts is utterly irrelevant. For what it's worth I had a long chat with her at CitizenCon and she said she's been looking for somebody to take over for marketing for over a year but nobody has the experience, the passion and is willing to work for the given salary. Her salary comes from subscribers and not out of the game funds - she doesn't even have her own office and she's required to take on any role she can, including customer support. I don't think anyone could do a better job, certainly not for the same money - she has an incredible passion for the project.

Backers trusted Chris Roberts to make the game and to employ whoever he saw fit. Sandi Gardiner has done more than could have been expected and has more than proven herself. I haven't seen any evidence that she is unworthy of the position, making criticism unwarranted. The attacks against her are personal and simply trolling.

As has been obvious all along, the haters aren't interested in legitimately criticising the game - they just want to attack it. No matter what you show them they'll find a way to complain about it.

One of the early stretch goals was to provide 'celebrity voice-acting', back at the $5m mark. That's exactly what they've done. Yet still the Legion Of Derek attacks, proclaiming it a waste of money. If you don't like the game then don't buy it but don't troll every topic about the game. I don't like fake tan or anal bleaching but I don't search out discussions about them to express my disdain, I simply ignore them.

The world would be a better place if everybody focused their energy on constructive endeavours rather than attacking those willing to take risks and innovate.

Kxmode wrote on Oct 8, 2015, 23:35:Here's what happens when I tried to open a reasonable dialog with White Knight backers about the course of the project. It had received more than a few responses before the extremely aggressive moderators deleted it, and before it had a chance to see any kind of lengthy discussion. How can anyone have a reasonable discussion with these people if they engage in censorship and name-calling? The top comment told me to go "Fuck Derek Smart in his goat-ass".

The reason you were criticised is because your post was ridiculous and shows complete contempt for everything that Star Citizen represents.

1) You called for Chris Roberts, Sandra Roberts and Ortwin Freyemuth to be fired immediately despite them being the main people responsible for the game. Backers supported the project because of Chris Roberts.2) You called for them to be stripped of shares in the company, which is clearly motivated by a personal agenda.3) You mention the FTC even though a request has shown that no action is currently pending.4) You suggest they change netcode, despite them already having implemented their own netcode.5) You call for core components of the game to be removed (Arena Commander, Star Marine, the PU, etc).6) You call for the game to be ported to console.

In other words you want to take a game marketed as a PC title made by Chris Roberts and make it a console game without Chris Roberts. You complain about the game not being what was promised and yet want to do exactly that to it but on your terms. Your suggestions are utterly unreasonable.

I question why you even backed the game given your contempt for everything it represents. You're just parroting Derek Smart's deranged rantings.

jdreyer wrote on Oct 8, 2015, 11:45:Just watched the trailer. Completely forgotten this existed. Perhaps that's got something to do with it? Also, it looks awful.

I too had forgotten about this title. When I checked out the trailer on YouTube I discovered I'd already downvoted it, as had most other people.

Given how unpopular the reaction to it has been I'm not surprised they're looking to cancel it (which is clearly what they're saying when you cut through the PR bullshit). Personally I say good riddance. Bethesda does not want to be associated with this.

jdreyer wrote on Oct 7, 2015, 01:44:He is concerned. He's a big defender, but he's not blind. This CitCon is a bit make or break for him, IIRC. I was right there with him until the social module launched.

Exactly. I have expressed my serious concerns on so many occasions. I'm not blind to the issues affecting this game and its development. As for the social module, I think it's terrible as it stands - the performance is appalling and functionality-wise it's rudimentary at best. That said, that doesn't diminish my confidence in the project overall. The hangar and Arena Commander both run at 60fps and they haven't implemented a lot of the performance features, such as DX12. However, they need to expand its functionality and do so quickly. With the SocMod they've at least committed to several major releases this year, including a new planetside location. Whether they deliver is another matter.

I'll be at CitCon this Saturday and they really need to deliver. Squadron 42 has been kept behind closed doors and it cannot underwhelm. They also need to show substantial progress elsewhere, to show what they've been working on for this past year.

Creston wrote on Oct 5, 2015, 16:09:They stopped doing stretch goals at 65 million, and are now at ~ 90 million. They should EASILY have enough money to complete everything promised at 65 million.

The fact/assumption that they don't means they've just been promising things without any kind of idea what it would actually cost to implement them.

Their constant need for more money to complete the game they essentially promised to make with less money is just disingenuous.

Who says they need any more money? We don't have any figures to support that conclusion. What we know is that they've raised an extremely large amount of money and even now they continue to bring in more. It makes sense for them to scale development based on existing pledges and future income, as long as they don't rely too much on the latter.

For all we know they have $50m in the bank, they'll net another $20m next year and the development is sustainable for the next decade through future expansions.

CitizenCon is really make or break for the game. Gamescom really didn't show a huge amount of progress from last year and we haven't seen anything relating to Squadron 42, which is what most people are excited for. It would be very easy for CIG to wow everybody and take the wind out of critics but it would be just as easy for them to underperform and announce significant delays. CIG really needs to get Star Marine and the Baby PU into people's hands soon, as it cannot have them delayed until next year.

Desalus wrote on Oct 5, 2015, 13:48:The most surefire way for Chris to prove Derek and The Escapist wrong is to release a feature complete game.

Which they're doing. Whether it lives up to expectations is another matter. CitizenCon is around the corner, so we'll have a better idea of the state of the game then.

Desalus wrote on Oct 5, 2015, 13:48:My guess is that Chris is worried that The Escapist article and any further bad press with decrease the amount of future gamer funding, which means they most likely do not have enough funds to complete the game. To threaten a lawsuit seems like an act of desperation, so the remaining funds must be pretty low (probably close to that stated 8-9 million). All conjecture of course, but I don't see the point of threatening a lawsuit if further funding is not needed.

So to avoid bad press CIG decided to draw attention to a negative article in the hopes it would increase funding? Seems legit. The non-cynic would suggest that Chris Roberts is outraged that his wife has been attacked and is doing everything he can to defend her but then that doesn't fit the conspiracy theories people love around here.

If CIG needed to raise extra money it could release the game on Steam Early Access, which would easily bring in tens of millions of dollars; it could prioritise the release of modules in order to get backers interested; it could bring back LTI; it could do another sponsorship deal like it did with AMD; it could turn to angel investors and offer them a percentage of earnings, etc. The only claims that the company is low on money are from anonymous sources in a shoddy article who almost certainly don't have first-hand knowledge of the company's finance; they are also predicated on Chris Roberts recklessly over staffing the project and burning through all the money.

CIG has never had any problems raising money and this debacle hasn't done anything to change that.

theyarecomingforyou wrote on Oct 5, 2015, 12:40:Publishing an article claiming that Sandi Gardiner is racist without anything to substantiate that claim or any attempt to seek comment is defamation.

I can't re-read the article at work, but I don't think that's what they did. I think it said something like "CSR1 also said that Sandi was racist and refused to hire someone because 'we aren't hiring a black girl.' "

That's not stating that she is racist, that's just repeating what your anonymous source tells you. I think legally there's probably a pretty big difference between the two, but admittedly I have little knowledge with regards to the legal system.

Publishing such a claim without evidence is exactly what I'm talking about. At the bare minimum it's bad journalism and should be removed voluntarily. There isn't anything to gain by defending it. I imagine that the legal department at CIG is investigating the nature of the article and the author responsible, as if she has any association with Derek Smart or there is any evidence that the claims were deliberately fabricated then that changes things substantially.

CIG doesn't want to actually file a lawsuit, it just wants the article and its slanderous claims removed and an apology issued. If the article met even basic journalistic standards it would be fair to accuse CIG of using legal threats to take down a negative article but many of the claims are demonstrably false and CIG has an obligation to defend its staff. If The Escapist had a shred of journalistic integrity it would have removed the article itself voluntarily; it could have assigned the story to another author to write a properly researched piece. There have been plenty of negative articles about Star Citizen but this one stepped over the line.

Illumin wrote on Oct 5, 2015, 12:42:I use to be a pretty solid defender of S.C and to a point I still will defend it. I think eventually something is going to be thrown out there as a game. Is it going to be everything C.R says it is? Im really doubting that since Starmarine and multicrew seems to be kicking their ass. I think C.R micromanages way to much and his time management skills are for shit. That being said I think Derek Smart has gone way beyond a healthy questioning of CIG's abilities to deliver, into an obsessive crusade. He would love to see a law suit. Anything and everything he can do to make them spend more money on anything but this game being developed is a win for Derek Smart.

It really depends on how good Star Marine and the Baby PU are. It doesn't matter so much that they were delayed if the end result is worth it. What I suspect happened with Star Marine is that Chris Roberts tried it and thought it was a mess, at which point he scaled back the involvement of Illfonic - the contractor developing it - and increased the role of Foundry 42, the UK studio. He probably hoped it could be turned around quite quickly but failed to realise the scale of the problems. I would agree that he micromanages too much and has poor time management skills.

I still have my doubts about Star Marine, as based on the footage it doesn't look that impressive. That said, Arena Commander took a while to get to where it is today and that's the nature of an alpha test. The Baby PU, on the otherhand, looks in a decent state. It was playable at Gamescom and though it was buggy it looked like the basics were in place.

As for Derek Smart, he went full retard decades ago. He's beyond a joke yet some around here still give him credence because they want to see the project fail and confirmation bias is a powerful thing.