Transsexuality is something not widely accepted in the world. Thanks to Mina Caputo, Marissa Martinez, and bands like Mechanical Black, metal is progressing and accepting it. Are there any ts fans on the metal archives?

OK, this is one of the "difficult" subjects out there, so let's be careful here. I will give the OP the benefit of doubt and assume that she/he/it/them/whatever is serious, and let this stay open for a while, but please note that the threshold for various jokers will be VERY low here.

To add a real comment, I believe the metal scene is quite tolerant of most things. A large part of it is somewhat liberal thinking by most people involved, but the main reason is certainly the "why should I give a fuck" attitude, and that simply means that the issue is a non-issue for most people, and that, in turn, also means it's not worth much discussion for the crowd. So if you're a transsexual, you can just take it easy and enjoy the scenery; but if you're a transsexual looking for attention, I'm afraid you will be disappointed.

Well, there's a couple of songs that I know about transsexuality in metal. The first is the Scorpions 'He's a Woman, She's a Man' which is quite juvenile - literally being quite a shock-level song, as if it were their first exposure to a transgender person. Next there's Scanner's L.A.D.Y. which is actually a rather tender, confused sort of love song. Obviously, it's written from the position of a straight man, who goes to a gay club for the first time and falls for this transgender lady and then fines himself rather confused given his affection for her. I think it's really touching, actually and SL Coe's vocals really sell the song. Any more songs which deal with this issue with some degree of sensitivity?

_________________'Heavy metal top of the class, stuff the media up your arse!' - Den Dennis.

There are some quite high-profile individuals (not in bands) over this side of the pond. Whilst very few people are really going to mind, it is not exactly a common thing within the metal scene specifically, which isn't as tolerant as certain 'goth' or more generalised 'alternative' scenes.

Lacking the conservative narrowmindedness (comparatively speaking, at any rate), it's perhaps more accepted in metal scenes than in the general population in countries like USA and such, where strict bible-based moral standards dictate the morals of even the non-religious (to a greater extent than in several European countries, anyway). Considering the need many metalheads seem to have to revolt against many seemingly absurd conservative Christian ideals and morals, I'd say that there might be more tolerance towards sexual minorities. I don't know if this is horrible generalisation and uninformed speculation.

_________________"Since that time, I have received highest level confirmations that such organizations not only exist but are rooted in satanic ritual murder and extend across America’s political landscape into nearly every community."

i actually know a male to female trans gender, they are into metal too.the pills they have to take are really heavy and make them a bit 'odd' but they are nicethis friend of mine was raised as a girl but was born a male.

Mister Muhammad, I seriously fucking recommend you get out of this thread immediately.

I think this could be a worthwhile discussion provided that people can maintain a minimum of maturity in this topic. I'm cis myself but I'm fully supportive of the inclusion of trans musicians in metal.

I really don't see why it would even be an issue at all. Hell I'm supposed to do a grind project with a transgender person and it doesn't change their guitar playing or writing style one bit regardless of how they are physically. That's all I care about is their ability to write and create something that I enjoy to listen to.

I have a friend who has just started hormone treatment, he said he has something called gender dismorfia.. I think thats what it was, anyway he said his whole like he has felt like a woman trapped in a mans body. He loves metal, and I don't judge him any different, the way I see it, if he's not hurting anyone and it makes him happy why not? As for being related to metal that's cool aswell I think bands should sing about what they want! Look at all the songs about rape that we accept in death metal ( and we all know rape is a horrible thing, and I know it's not to be taken seriously but still it's a valid point in my mind)

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Zodijackyl wrote:

Advocating for using dental floss instead of thread is like preaching that everyone should open their beer with a toothbrush instead of spending a couple bucks on a bottle opener..

I don't think the atmosphere in actual metal music is generally hostile to trans-people, since, while not trans, the orientations of musicians like Halford and Gaahl seem to generally be accepted without homophobia, and seeing acceptance of other minorities could easily be encouraging to the trans-community, I'd imagine. Metal music may often be macho, but I don't see much homophobia in the actual music. However, I still think the metal FANBASE, especially online, has problem with such phobias, considering how often I see the "fag" being bandied about, or the use of "gay" to call something bad, so incidents like that can't be good for our overall open-mindedness.

Edit: Then again, I've seen trans-people being supported on other metal sites when they came out with it, so there is good as well.

I guess there's not much to discuss regarding this particular topic. I mean, you can screw/get screwed whoever/by whoever you want. That's no one's business but yours. You like metal/play metal? Then that's all you require to form a part of this scene. Nothing else.

Just a little off-topic rant; halfformedfetus, regarding your point about songs in metal which depict rape (or gore or necrophilia or whatever)..... I don't think it's valid, considering the fact that the musicians which employ that kind of aesthetic in their works are very rarely (if ever) serious. That side of metal works like a horror movie; sure, there are graphic depictions of murder and other nasty shit, but that doesn't mean (at all) that horror film directors condone violence of any kind whatsoever.

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Nochielo wrote:

Crick wrote:

Years from now, no one will remember Gandhi. They will speak only of Fenriz.

Oh, I stopped following Gandhi's career since he left Gorgoroth.

Last edited by Xlxlx on Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I guess there's not much to discuss regarding this particular topic. I mean, you can screw/get screwed whoever/by whoever you want. That's no one's business but yours. You like metal/play metal? Then that's all you require to form a part of this scene. Nothing else.

Just a little off-topic rant; halfformedfetus, regarding your point about songs in metal which depict rape (or gore or necrophilia or whatever)..... I don't think it's valid, considering the musicians which employ that kind of aesthetic in their works are very rarely (if ever) serious. That side of metal works like a horror movie; sure, there are graphic depictions of murder and other nasty shit, but that doesn't mean (at all) that horror film directors condone violence of any kind whatsoever.

True good point, probably didn't think it through enough, I suppose I was trying to get at a point that why should we care if someone is gay/transgender in metal, people should accept people for what they are? That was my main goal in joining this topic

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Zodijackyl wrote:

Advocating for using dental floss instead of thread is like preaching that everyone should open their beer with a toothbrush instead of spending a couple bucks on a bottle opener..

I think what Prophet Mohammed was trying to articulate (heh) is that the clip (Mechanical Black) is musically pretty awful, and more importantly not metal in the first place, thus making it irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

I'd like to think the metal subculture in general would be pretty inclusive of societies fringe elements, itself being a part of these by definition.

I don't think the atmosphere in actual metal music is generally hostile to trans-people, since, while not trans, the orientations of musicians like Halford and Gaahl seem to generally be accepted without homophobia, and seeing acceptance of other minorities could easily be encouraging to the trans-community, I'd imagine. Metal music may often be macho, but I don't see much homophobia in the actual music. However, I still think the metal FANBASE, especially online, has problem with such phobias, considering how often I see the "fag" being bandied about, or the use of "gay" to call something bad, so incidents like that can't be good for our overall open-mindedness.

Edit: Then again, I've seen trans-people being supported on other metal sites when they came out with it, so there is good as well.

I dunno, dude, I think it's pretty obvious that people are referring to the fanbase when they say there's a fucked up attitude toward trans* folks in metal. But yeah, lots of people say really stupid shit and I'm pretty sick of it. I personally know a number of trans* metalheads (though they don't post here) and there are also a few trans* posters on this board. So far it seems that the folks in this thread are mostly respectful, though, which is encouraging.

I myself am not trans, but I have a friend who is planning on transitioning. She is a metalhead, and was worried about how the metal community viewed transsexuals. That is why I posted this thread. I'm glad to see that people are mostly accepting in the metal community. I'm sorry to have caused any conflict :/

I've heard the issue addressed by non-metal artists like Antony and the Johnsons, and people who have struggled with gender identity (or whatever it is called) have my sympathy, but personally I consider a person to be the gender they were born as, regardless of their feelings on that matter or whatever surgery they have taken to "fix" that. That's not a moral belief, it's a biological one.

I've heard the issue addressed by non-metal artists like Antony and the Johnsons, and people who have struggled with gender identity (or whatever it is called) have my sympathy, but personally I consider a person to be the gender they were born as, regardless of their feelings on that matter or whatever surgery they have taken to "fix" that. That's not a moral belief, it's a biological one.

Oddly, it isn't for you to decide, as counter-intuitive as that might seem at first. It might take some getting used to, but how one presents is basically how they should be taken, and that can change. Their request to be referred to as such-and-so should be honored, seems to me. It isn't like it's costing you anything to call them what they ask to be called.

Thinking the question ends with biology doesn't make much sense. The brain and the body can have very different ideas about things.

Though it's played more for laughs (I think?), Type O Negative has a song called "Angry Inch" which follows a man who got an operation to become a woman. But there was just a little bulge...IT WAS AN ANG-ER-Y INCH!!

Oddly, it isn't for you to decide, as counter-intuitive as that might seem at first. It might take some getting used to, but how one presents is basically how they should be taken, and that can change. Their request to be referred to as such-and-so should be honored, seems to me. It isn't like it's costing you anything to call them what they ask to be called.

Thinking the question ends with biology doesn't make much sense. The brain and the body can have very different ideas about things.

It's not for anyone to decide. You don't choose your race, height, eye color, etc. We are what we are when we're born.

There are products that drastically lighten skin for people that don't like being black or dark-skinned. Sammy Sosa tried to lighten his skin and wear green eye contacts. Does that make him Caucasian? No, he's still a black Dominican man that altered himself to appear differently.

Obviously, if living as another gender or living with lighter skin makes you happier, then go for it. Just don't write shitty music.

MetalMetalsMan: No one knows what Sammy is better than Sammy (or perhaps Sammy in therapy). He was born Dominican and dark. So what? "Why should I give a fuck?" If he says otherwise, who am I to argue with him? Samuel Delaney writes well about the psychological value of body modification.

edit: then again, shame and internalized racism can do very strange things to the mind and make him feel like he should be white instead. I'm not sure that's the same thing as sexual identification .. but at the same time, I don't know enough about it to say exactly how it's different.

Lame pointing out how the orientation of someone has little to do with music at all ?The fact Halford or Gaahl are whatever they consider themselves hardly stopped me from being a fan since the start or a continued fan of their music after pointless revelations of pointless tastes.

Not a personal friend of either and care less of what they are. Same as that topic. It seems like the very point of that thread is to start trouble and fish for comments like mine, not that mine is even remotely positive or negative, neither supportive or a brutal ignorant attack.

But if you mods that moderate this site are that choosy, so be it. You think someone bringing up something that has nothing to do with music at all is a great metal topic to dicuss, then I suppose that says more about the failure to properly moderate here than anything I could ever post that someone for some reason deems so inappropiate.

Philosophy of human acceptance or the ability for society to accept or hate certain specifics has strong arguments either way, and neither way did I post other than to ask what the hell the topic even has to do with music to begin with.

So fuck you, fuck the site, go fuck yourself and the other lame moderators of simple minded idiocy and fucking ban me you stupid cunt. Wham. There you go douche bag.

I don't see the "metal community" as being particularly intolerant on trans people.Certainly no more than homosexuals.

I don't think it's a "Metal" problem, considering trans people aren't widely accepted by A LOT of people, regardless of what musical subcultures they may or may not belong to.

I'd be willing to bet that trans people are less accepted than other people living "alternative lifestyles", whatever they may be.

In general, I think the metal community is too apathetic about "socio-political issues" to care one way or the other. Whether or not that's good or bad is for someone else to decide, I am just saying that's how it seems to me.

I will say Metal tends to be far more "heteronormative" and "misogynistic" than, say, punk music, but then so is society in general.