It was one of the most interesting stories of the MLS off-season. Juan Carlos Osorio’s abrupt departure from the Chicago Fire to the New York Red Bulls and the subsequent feud that followed. It is a feud taken up by both team’s fans and waged by the teams, well at least one team.

You see, Chicago hasn’t let it go. More to the point, the Fire’s new owner, Andrew Hauptman, hasn’t let it go. Ever since Osorio said thanks, but no thanks to staying with the Fire, Hauptman has labled the Red Bulls, and Osorio specifically, as Public Enemy No. 1 in Chicago. According to multiple sources in MLS, Hauptman has told his team officials that the Fire will not do business of any kind with the Red Bulls.

While this shouldn’t come as that much of a surprise, Hauptman’s recent public declarations about his contempt for Osorio’s departure have kicked up some embers on a flame that looked like it might fade. However, in his attempt to discredit Osorio and portray him as a villain to a Fire fanbase that already thinks Osorio is the devil, Hauptman has opened the door to providing a clearer, and more accurate description of the circumstances surrounding Osorio departure from Chicago.

In multiple profiles on Hauptman written in Chicago newspapers recently, the Fire owner made reference to a clause in Osorio’s contract with the Fire that would have allowed Osorio to leave his job. In neither case did Hauptman bother to point out that the fact that Osorio did not exercise that option, and in fact, helped the Fire secure a compensation package that was higher than any paid for a departing coach in the history of MLS.

Yes, you read that right. Osorio’s contract with the Fire included a clause that would have allowed him to resign, and after 30 days, he would have been free to take a position with any other team in the world, MLS or otherwise. The poorly-constructed contract, which came courtesy of Chicago’s previous owners AEG, left the door open for Osorio to walk away.

After initially being denied permission to speak with the Red Bulls about the job vacated by former coach Bruce Arena, Osorio used the escape clause as a bargaining tool. What started as a mild interest in the Red Bulls position turned into a strong desire to leave Chicago as Hauptman’s handling of the situation left Osorio eager to leave the club. With the escape clause as the ideal bargaining chip, Osorio made it clear to Chicago. Either the Fire let him interview with the Red Bulls and let the Red Bulls pay compensation if they hired him, or he would walk away and Chicago would receive nothing upon him being hired by the Red Bulls.

The Fire relented and eventually negotiated a considerable compensation package with the Red Bulls that included cash (which some sources put at approximately $500,000), a major allocation ($300,000) and the Red Bulls first-round draft pick. A hefty price and a price that would not have been paid if Osorio had not felt a sense of obligation to see Chicago compensated.

Chicago accepted that compensation from the Red Bulls, but that didn’t stop the Fire, and specifically Hauptman, from pressing the league to investigate the Red Bulls for tampering. According to sources, MLS proceeded with an investigation, interviewing several of the parties involved in Osorio’s move to the Red Bulls. The league never did penalize the Red Bulls for the alledged tampering.

Perhaps the most ironic aspect of Chicago’s bitterness regarding Osorio’s departure is the fact that the circumstances surrounding the Fire’s courtship of Osorio from Colombian club Millonarios were just as, if not more, questionable than Osorio’s departure to the Red Bull. According to sources, Fire president John Guppy traveled to Colombia to meet with Osorio and watch his training sessions without ever speaking to anybody at Millonarios (and also spoke to Osorio about the Fire head coaching job before he had even fired Dave Sarachan). The Fire never asked for permission to speak to Osorio while he was still Millonarios coach nor did Chicago offer any compensation when Osorio was let out of his contract by Millonarios.

Not exactly the actions of a club that should be crying foul about tampering now, are they? If anything, some would call Osorio’s subsequent departure from the Fire to the Red Bulls a touch of karma. I know Millonarios fans would.

So what now? There is no what now, not when it comes to the Fire and Red Bulls. There is merely contempt and anymosity and while there is nothing wrong with a good old soccer feud, there is just something wrong about a feud not born out of on-field battles, but off-field disputes.

good piece, one point, its unfair to insinuate hauptman with hypocrisy for possibly tampering with osorio’s contract at millionarios then turning around and looking at the red bulls for the same thing. aeg would be the culprit w/ millionarios not hauptman.

A touch of bias Ives? Obviously both sides are going to paint themselves out to be in the right, but in all reality this goes much deeper than just Osorio going to the Red Bulls. Bob Bradley should come to mind as should the ongoing conflict with Conde. The fact is that Fire fans in general are pissed off that the Red Bulls are continually delving into the Fire organization. The most important thing about this entire story is that the Fire now have an owner who cares just as much as Section 8 does and is not going to put up with the bs that AEG did.

You know that just adds something to the ridiculousness of Fire fans’ self righteous behavior throughout this whole saga. In the professional soccer world, coaches and player leave all the time for rival clubs. It is one thing to boo the departed, yet another to raise the dispute to the level of a Hatfields and McCoys feud, especially coming from owner & management.

You know, Fire fans shouldn’t invoke AEG in one post and then completely forget about it in the next. You can’t have it both ways. John Guppy was then and still is with the Fire. His role in the whole fiasco deserves a closer look. His lack of professionalism set this up.

As a Fire fan it’s tiring to read the cheap shots that a few have been so quick to post. Fire fans were not made aware of this clause in Osorio’s contract ’til now so for many of us this now falls under “Who was the dumbass to allow him the 30 day out clause in his contract?” AEG and Guppy or primarily AEG? In my mind if you don’t want to be here, I say use the door, so I could care less about the fact he left however, this puts the whole issue on a different level. In other words, someone from the Fire lied to us Fire fans. That’s who I’m pissed at.

I love how you paint Osorio out to be an upright guy who was doing a great thing for the Fire by getting them some compensation. When in reality he was still copping out of a 3 year contract, it seems to me that he knew he was screwing over the Fire organization by leaving so he felt bad and tried to make up for it somewhat.

Woah…sorry guys, my buddy is a Fire fan and he hijacked the keyboard. Funny how all they do is cry, cry, cry. You got an absurd compensation for him, and HE DIDN’T WANT TO STAY IN CHICAGO. Stop crying about it, he would have left no matter what. Jeebus.

face it people, the Fire and their fans are going to refuse to ignore the facts and act like children…worth a shot by Ives to point things out objectively, but naturally, there are going to be close-minded people out there…sad.

Part of the animosity on the part of Fire fans toward Osorio was that he left the team after less than year for what many MLS fans consider a lesser team. If he went to a European team, most fans would be saying good luck. Also, one of his main excuses for leaving was that his wife did not like it in Chicago because of the ‘small Columbian population. That is a surprising statement to make coming from a husband who has dragged his wife from England to Columbia to Chicago and now to New Jersey. If he had truely cared about his wife, he might have actually done a little research on the Columbian community in Chicago and discussed it with his wife. Seems a little wierd to most fans. The Chicago Fire have a history of “Tradtion, Honor, Passion” that fans take very seriously. In abruptly leaving Chicago after less than one season and failing to give a logical explanation, it is very clear to most Fire fans that Osorio has very little respect to the “Tradition, Honor, Passion” of the Chicago Fire.

Fans are also very displeased over the Conde situation as well. If Osorio and Conde had to be together that badly, Osorio should have stayed in Chicago. Conde is going to have problems in advancing his career if he continues to refuse to play for any other coach besides Osorio.

To a much lesser extent there is the Lider Marmol situation. Osorio brought Marmol to the attention of the Chicago Fire FO when he was still the coach. Due to some issues they couldn’t sign him at the end of last season. They still wanted to sign him, so they put a discovery claim on him after Osorio had left and apparently just before NYRB did. Everything the Fire did was within the rules, and the FO has said they intend to sign him. Just tell NYRB thanks for keeping him in shape for us.

Ives, if you want things to die, maybe you shouldn’t be writing articles about them.

look at the big picture in terms of where the league is going/growing. the sport is like this EVERYWHERE else in the world. teams are always looking at someone else’s players or staff while trying to make their team better (as long as they play within the rules). its feuds like this that actually push the old “making-rules-as-we-go” and “crossing-bridges-when-we-get-there” MLS to start taking a more professional approach from top to bottom.

ives brings up a good point about ‘weak’ contracts – i promise you this won’t happen again. JCO did nothing wrong as per his written contract. sure its a nice little pissing match between chicago and ny that will never have a clear winner, but it now pushes all parts of MLS to up their game a bit.

I think it was more like Osorio , wanted to interview and wasnt sure he would get the job. Otherwise when the fire refused he could have resigned right then. Instead he negotiated the right to interview.

Also, like mentioned above you can’t blame the owner when AEG where the owners when Guppy went to columbia.

In the End I’m glad the owner is pissed, the new info on the contract is going to make fire fans hate Guppy more. And Conde should be playing this weekend.

My sources tell me Hauptman’s contempt for Osorio comes from conversations with JCO that occurred after Hauptman took over from AEG. Osorio let it be known to the new owner that he was committed to the Fire organization. Hauptman took it personally when JCO decided to go back on his word. The contract clause not withstanding, Hauptman expected his coach live up to his commitment for more than 16 weeks.

What I don’t quite get is, if the clause was cut and dried as an out clause why didn’t NYRB just wait the 30 days and hire JCO. Are they stupid enough to give the Fire a compensation package when they didn’t have to?

The entire scenario in which the Fire acquired Osorio tells me one thing. That is that BOTH John Guppy AND Osorio are weasles.

If the Fire let Osorio interview, and then Osorio resigns and signs 30 days later don’t you think that would have caused a much greater problem in the MLS and that’s the reason the NYRB decided to give compensation?

After reading everything from both sides and taking a look at this situation, it’s nice knowing that Osorio is a stand up guy…and that Red Bull are in the clear, and it’s the Fire FO and fans who are making asses of themselves. . . pathetic…

i’m not a fan of either team, quakes fan here.so aeg screwing sh!t up again? no that never happens with them! the worst part in all this is the fact that 2 very good players are in the middle of all this crap. i say just play , and move on , everyone.

Ives supporting the Red Bulls, well I’ll be! I also remember you mentioning that Osorio never looked at MLS as a stepping stone to something bigger which was a complete lie. Love the site but hot damn I could do without the pandering.

Guillermo…New York did not wait the 30 days and hire JCO because JCO was actually decent and got Chicago more than they deserved. He decided not to opt out and rather have New York basically buy him from Chicago when they did not need to based off of the contract.

New York fans should probably be angrier at Osorio than Chicago fans after this. We gave up a major allocation for no reason?

Seriously Chicago is being over dramatic and ridiculous. They have a coach and they have a good team this year. Marmol does not want to play for them and to keep him from playing soccer is not hurting the Red Bulls as much as it is hurting the player. He wants to sign a contract here and play in New York but Hauptman is unwilling to trade the discovery filing and let New York get Marmol.

I think the Bulls should sign Innes, forget Marmol, and leave this mess behind us. Like any good businesss man, Hauptman will realize that cutting off your nose to spite your face (not trading with the bulls or withholding trades in fear of red bulls receiving a Fire player) is not a good business strategy.

Marmol actually won’t be able to play because he’s asking for more money then MLS will pay him. Also, the Fire are with in thier rights, NYRB or his agent should have let him know about it prior to him going to train with them

Most of the Chica fans posting here are a bunch of whiners… whaaaaaaa, whaaaaaa and whaaaaa like kpugs writes… Osorio always wanted to come back to NYC where he has family and friends…when the new owner took over Osorio smelled a rat (when he initially was not granted an interview for the recently vacated RB job) and got the hell out… You can’t blame him for wanting to leave… now they are shafting Conde and Marmol… sounds like JPO made the right move…

Reality check here, if Marmol won’t get to play because of MARMOL! If MLS offers him a contract to play and he doesn’t sign it, that’s HIS fault. I’m not defended MLS complicated rules, they are what they are so we all have to deal with it.

I just think its amusing to think about what NYRB fans would be saying if the roles were reversed. Everybody can get up on their high horse and say the other is an asshole, but you would be saying the exact same things if Chicago did it to you.

JCO is definetly not in the clear here. He decided he wanted to pursue the NYRB job after the Red Bulls floated the idea of hiring a coach who was under contract to another team. The compensation package was due to no great sense of dignity from Osorio. When he decided he wanted to go to NY and hid behind his wife and family as an excuse he did not know for sure that he was going to get the NY job.

If you recall, before the compensation package or trade was announced, JCO had yet to come to an agreement with NYRB. The Fire front office hastily announced he was leaving before the deal with NY was done. NYRB should be pissed at their front office for not waiting the 30 days, if indeed that time frame is accurate.

There really is no right and wrong in the whole thing. Fire fans will be blame JCO and NYRB while the NY side will paint the picture through red bull colored glasses. The fact is that BOTH Guppy and JCO acted less than professionally, and now the new owner is not happy about it understandably.

Of course Chicago is within their rights to not take Marmol if they think he is getting a salary that is too high. But MLS is low-balling Marmol because Chicago does not want to pay him the amount the Red Bulls can. From my understanding, there have been reports that New York was willing to compensate Chicago for Marmol and Chicago said no. Teams have done deals like that in the past. I believe Kenny Cooper was supposed to go to KC but Dallas gave them something and got Cooper.

If Marmol clearly does not want to play for Chicago…which is clear because he does not train with them, then Chicago should be reasonable and take some draft picks or something and let us sign him.

Yes Chicago is within their rights in respect to the situation, but that does not mean that they are not being pricks about it to both Marmol and the Red Bulls.

Fire fans were actually over this for the most part. I haven’t heard too much JCO bashing in a while. Ives took two lines out of an article and made a huge leap basically saying all Chicago fans wake-up every morning cursing Osorio and should get over it. Ives, we are over it. I suggest you do the same. Great piece of journalism, Ives.

Also, Guppy being a dumbass and screwing things up?? We’ve know that for years! Great scoop there Ives, surprised you couldn’t pick that up when he worked for the Metrostars.

Yellow journalism is a pejorative reference to journalism that features scandal-mongering, sensationalism, or other unethical or unprofessional practices by news media organizations or journalists. It has been loosely defined as “not quite libel”.

im not sure you can fault chicago owner here for being ‘childish’ by flat out saying that he wont do business with a rival. how is this any different than chelsea buying players with no intention of playing them just so that rivals (man u/arsenal) cant buy them? it happens

one can also argue that by keeping these players and benching them or keeping them while they’re unhappy might be a selfish move. look at the alternative: lets just say that they allow one or both of these players to go to NY (for whatever compensation) and these two teams end up playing in the playoffs and NY wins. at that point it looks like keeping them and benching them was the right move.

Ives- i think you did this to spark conversation…. this post truely is pointless, as its bringing to the table an arguement we’ve all heard a million times

can you honestly blame the fans for going irate when a coach (who is suppose to bring our team to the next level) bails on them?? on top of that try to bring over players either in contract or legally “discovered” by the fire?? this is farce…

personally im with the other guy who posted it… if you dont want to play for the Fire, then theres the door… i truely was hoping the Fire wouldve traded Conde for Richards… yes theres a loss in skill, but more cap wouldve been available and we wouldve filled in a very impt RM role (rolfe couldve pushed up top)…. Marmol has stated that he will play for either team, and the fire are bent on obtaining him…. the 135k wouldnt have been out of our price range by any means…

Overall, can anyone blame the fire fans for getting up in arms when this topic comes up?? its like pouring gas onto a fire and not expecting an explosion….

you can not look at it as Osorio was with in his rights through one view , and then say Chicago is being pricks through another. Osorio was with in his rights , was smart and got to NY where he wanted to be , but it was easliy a prick thing to do given the short time he was with the club. Much like Chicago are being pricks about Marmol.

‘From my understanding, there have been reports that New York was willing to compensate Chicago for Marmol and Chicago said no.’

Connor do you work in the MLS offices? Do you have info, that noones else does? I can make things up too it doesn’t make them true.

If we’re being pricks we’re being pricks. New York had nothing on their roster that they could offer for Conde, and I’m pretty sure you’re not offering us any draft choices. Or si that more of your ‘inside info.’?

How is the post pointless? Far from it. Ives provided some valuable new information about the Osorio situation. It may put your FO in an unflattering light (and the RBNY FO as well) it’s not pointless.

True, but the Chicago got compensation from Osorio. It is not like he left them without getting them a shitload of cash, an major allocation and a first round draft pick. I mean he was in his rights but he certainly did not try and damage the fire by leaving, he actually probably helped them. Those allocations are a big deal and I am actually kind of mad that we dont have it anymore especially if he could have just left.

My point is that teams do business in sports, but it seems that especially with discovery claims, teams keep pissing New York off. I remember when the team tried to sign Matt Jansen, but Columbus had signed a discovery for him but could not sign him anyway. So in order to surrender his rights they wanted us to give them Eddie Gaven or some crazy amount of draft picks in return for this guys signature (a guy they could not even sign).

I know teams also do not want to help the competition and I can understand not wanting to trade Conde (IMO the best defender in the league). We would all like to have him but that will not have him and we moved on. The Marmol situation is different because New York is apparently willing to provide offers to Chicago, but by all accounts Hauptman has just said that Chicago will not deal with New York.

It seems like New York keeps trying to provide compensation and actually give the Fire value for the people they want, and Hauptman is just being the big cry baby in this instance and refuses to do any business with New York.

Sports teams do business and because of the Fire’s owner and apparent temper, it seems as though New York and Chicago will not do business even if it makes sense for both teams. And even though New York more than compensated for the coach that they took.

seriously? We’re the one’s not willing to let it go? Fire fans are definitely not the embittered parties here. Yeah it sucks, most of us our over it. Hauptman doesn’t want to deal with the RB because he feels like they screwed him? Too bad, deal with it. It’s business. If I go to buy myself a big slice of NY Pizza and it tastes greasy and studid, I don’t go buy more of it….and you guys are hurting the Marmol situation more than anyone, sure we’ll put Marmol first in line, if he won’t accept a contract he doesn’t get to play. RBNY on the other hand our like a kid walking through a toystore with their new favorite toy even though mommy already told them they couldn’t have it. But JCO’s going to clutch onto it until he gets forced to leave no matter how bad he wants it. Aw, now I am actually crying, it’s really just so damn precious….

Fire fans should be angry at Guppy for all of this. The guy has lied to them numerous times, but they still support him and claim he is a nice guy. Anyone who does business like this isn’t a nice guy. Also, don’t you think Guppy saw the contract being given to Osorio by AEG and he STILL didn’t say anything about that clause to take it out.

The Fire fans are too busy making useless noise and sounding like children instead of listening to the facts.

Also, if you read a recent article, it looks like Hauptman isn’t entirely happy with Guppy either.

Gotta love how NY fans paint Fire fans as the whiners in this situation. We are over Osorio, we have Conde and will continue having him for the the rest of his contract and the 2 years after that if we want, and we also have the rights to Marmol if he ever decides to sign with MLS’ offer.

We are in the drivers seat looking back at you guys in the rearview. About as far from “whining” and “crybaby” as it gets. You guys on the other hand…

Fantastic post Ives and don’t listen to the rest of the people telling you not to write about it. Judging from the reaction in the comments, you can see that this is a topic that stirs up a lot of passion on both sides and that’s exactly what MLS needs.

I’m an impartial fan (DC) and I have to say the Chicago organization looks ridiculous. Give it up. Look what you walk away with, and Hamlett deserved a shot anyways. I don’t see Hamlett as a drop of from Osorio at all. You might say Osorio has a better ability to bring in talent from South American, but he has only brought in one player. But I have to say I agree with not letting Conde go. All a player would need to do is whine and complain to change teams. No player would value their contract. That would be a dangerous decision for the league.

I’m an impartial fan (DC) and I have to say the Chicago organization looks ridiculous. Give it up. Look what you walk away with, and Hamlett deserved a shot anyways. I don’t see Hamlett as a drop of from Osorio at all. You might say Osorio has a better ability to bring in talent from South American, but he has only brought in one player. But I have to say I agree with not letting Conde go. All a player would need to do is whine and complain to change teams. No player would value their contract. That would be dangerous.

So the Chicago coach left and went to New York – evidently acting much cooler than most of you thought before. I understand feeling bad and a little bitter, but this incensed? It’s not like he ran off with your wife or anything.

Also, Conde is acting childish and so is Hauptman. If Marmol thinks the MLS salary is too low (the salaries are usually too low, welcome to the MLS), then he should play somewhere else.

So the Chicago coach left and went to New York – evidently acting much cooler than most of you thought before. I understand feeling bad and a little bitter, but this incensed? It’s not like he ran off with your wife or anything.

Also, Conde is acting childish and so is Hauptman. If Marmol thinks the MLS salary is too low (the salaries are usually too low, welcome to the MLS), then he should play somewhere else.

I. Guppy and AEG screwed up when they came up with that freaked up contract. I think we should thank out lucky starts that we got such a sweet deal for Judas Osorio. Our FO is stupid for approving the contract (Fire Guppy) the RBNY FO is Stupid for shelling out the $ and picks (already fired their moron).

II. Not fair to blame our new owner for tampering with Millonarios contract since he was not here. Again FIRE GUPPY

III. The league is low balling Marmol not the FIRE. The Fire has enough room to pay him the $135k he wants. You can’t blame the Fire for what the league does.

IV. Conde signed with the FIRE and regardless of what anyone says the FIRE want to keep him because he is a good player. Same reason why the REVS kept T-shirt. He makes our team better so we want to keep him. He signed a contract (thank good Guppy didn’t have a release clause in it – FIRE GUPPY) so that is that. Would NYRB be willing to let Angel or Jozy leave just because they all of a sudden want to play for DC. Probably not

V. The FIRE put a claim in on Marmol after his trial with the team last year. The LEAGUE could not come to an agreement with him so he did not sign. The fire thought enough of him to put in a discovery claim. I think it very unlikely that they put that claim in thinking that 4 months later they would be able to screw the red cows.

VI. I remember Ives saying that he is not a Red Bulls fan so I believe is unbiased, but I think he got the Red Bulls side but did not speak to anyone at the FIRE FO. Am I correct Ives?

VII. As a fan I love this stuff. I agree the rivalry should have come from on filed activity. But this sudden hatred between our two team will insure three great games come game time

VIII. And thank you NY for making sure that Lider is fit healthy and ready to play. The only thing that would make this better is if he and Conde score a goal against your team and Osorio leaves half way through the season because his wife decides she like the weather in DC better.

I. Guppy and AEG screwed up when they came up with that freaked up contract. I think we should thank out lucky starts that we got such a sweet deal for Judas Osorio. Our FO is stupid for approving the contract (Fire Guppy) the RBNY FO is Stupid for shelling out the $ and picks (already fired their moron).

II. Not fair to blame our new owner for tampering with Millonarios contract since he was not here. Again FIRE GUPPY

III. The league is low balling Marmol not the FIRE. The Fire has enough room to pay him the $135k he wants. You can’t blame the Fire for what the league does.

IV. Conde signed with the FIRE and regardless of what anyone says the FIRE want to keep him because he is a good player. Same reason why the REVS kept T-shirt. He makes our team better so we want to keep him. He signed a contract (thank good Guppy didn’t have a release clause in it – FIRE GUPPY) so that is that. Would NYRB be willing to let Angel or Jozy leave just because they all of a sudden want to play for DC. Probably not

V. The FIRE put a claim in on Marmol after his trial with the team last year. The LEAGUE could not come to an agreement with him so he did not sign. The fire thought enough of him to put in a discovery claim. I think it very unlikely that they put that claim in thinking that 4 months later they would be able to screw the red cows.

VI. I remember Ives saying that he is not a Red Bulls fan so I believe is unbiased, but I think he got the Red Bulls side but did not speak to anyone at the FIRE FO. Am I correct Ives?

VII. As a fan I love this stuff. I agree the rivalry should have come from on filed activity. But this sudden hatred between our two team will insure three great games come game time

VIII. And thank you NY for making sure that Lider is fit healthy and ready to play. The only thing that would make this better is if he and Conde score a goal against your team and Osorio leaves half way through the season because his wife decides she like the weather in DC better.

I think Marmol should agree to a contract that is $5 over what Chicago has in cap room and all this will be over. RBNY signs him and we can all move on. You can keep Conde at this point the dude is probably not match fit anyhow.

Interesting article. This provides even more evidence of Guppy being a complete imbecile and incompetent GM. I’m a Fire fan & it doesn’t sound like he handled the JCO/Millonarios negotiations well at all. Giving him an out clause for nothing is stupid (I’m mean, what’s the point of the contract then???) and not discussing his intentions w/Millonarios is shady. Yet again, all this seems to ultimately be Guppy’s fault by creating the out clause.

That said, if JCO did indeed tell Hauptman that he was committed to the Fire when he bought the team, as one poster here mentioned, and then bolted a few weeks later, I could see why Hauptman would feel betrayed. And since it’d be a clear lie, would definitely bring JCO’s character into question. Yes, I understand that players/coaches bolt all the time, but if Hauptman doesn’t respect JCO or NY for “taking” his coach, it’s completely w/in his right not to deal with them. The White Sox, as an example, rarely deal with Boras. It’s a business decision that they made even though he works with many of the top players in the league, and they’re doing just fine (’05 WS). While it may be petty for Hauptman to choose not to deal w/them, it’s his club and his right if he doesn’t like the other side (why help your enemies??? I believe we can all understand that feeling, no matter what club you root for). There are plenty of other teams w/which to deal.

It’s a similar situation for Conde & Marmol. Just because they may prefer to play in NY, Chicago owns their rights and can do whatever they please. I get, for soccer reasons, why the Fire wouldn’t want to help a very strong offensive NY team with a top notch defensive player in Conde. If NY suddenly had a strong defense, wouldn’t that very much complicate Chicago’s efforts w/in their conference? Same w/Marmol…if he’s so good, why would the Fire let him go to NY??? I mean, most NY fans post about how it’s just business and JCO chose to leave, it’s his right blah blah blah, but then cry foul when Chicago decides to keep it’s talent, how it’s not the right thing to do by the players, blah blah blah. Why isn’t that just business too? Anyhow, Chicago looks really strong and really really deep, so maybe if the MLS & Marmol come to an agreement we’ll end up trading someone else. But just not to NY…Haahahahahahaha.

I would like to point out that Hauptman did not own the team when we took Osorio. I would like to point out that at least we have an Owner who is so committed to his team and does not use it as a way to make a giant profit. He has improved my team with great vigor and what seems to be great success. I would like to point out that this is what Major League Soccer needs, owners who are all buddy buddy with each other. New Yorkers think they are the greatest, is this what Alexander Hamilton left the city with? arrogance. Chicago will always be treated as the younger smaller brother of New York, but when it came to saving this country during the 20th century it was our shoulders that carried trade and service for the rest of the country. We are better than you New York and will always be!

Matt- its pointless b/c this topic is old and forgotten… the current topics between the two are Conde and Marmol… rarely do you see anyone talk about JCO (unless its a lil’ jab at watching him fail from time to time)… starting up an old fire is nothing more then getting a fan fueled battle on the internet…. this topic is pointless

Topher – the JCO train has come and gone… just some bitterness gets rooted from time to time… as one of us posted before the fire organization is about “Tradition, Honor and Passion”…. while some were skeptical of Hamlett i relished in the fact that we have a coach who is fire through and through… and he seems to be doing a good job… he’s holding onto Conde, b/c quite frankly he’s too valuable to trade off (altho i wouldnt have objected to picking up richards)…. he’s (and the FO) are holding onto Marmol’s rights b/c they truely feel he’ll add to the team… its as simple as that, but people seem to be making it out that the “big bad fire organization” is out to ruin players’ careers and not aid the redbulls…

ok, we wont aid the redbulls, thats apparent… but who would aid a rival… of course this wouldnt occur in other leagues, b/c the player has the decision… but rules are rules… a reasonable redbulls fan proposed a great idea in another thread about it… but i wont repost it here

Jokerman, I assume you named yourself with irony in mind? Because calling RBNY Tinkerbulls is hi-larious. I’m a DC United fan and I’m finding it hard not to dislike the Fire right now. Your organization is clearly vindicative, not to mention the fact that your star player is US Soccer’s favorite guy, C-Blanco.

I love how the NYRB fans are now like Osorio let you get compensation.

If I’m Osorio, I know I’m not guarenteed the postion so its in my best interest to try and meet while I have this contract with the Fire.

He barigns and gets it. Then NYRB say ok we want to hire you. At this point he met while under contract. NY says i want to hire you. Then they both agree to avoid league problems , and you know there would be some, they give chicago compensation

where is you source for what NYRB is willing to pay and that Chicago is standing in the way. IF I recall Ives reported earlier that the MLS would make the contract and then offer it chicago, if they refused then NY.

Agree with David Martinez. This is a game of chicken btwn the Bulls and the Fire, which neither team can win, and in which Marmol loses most, just for wanting to play in NY.

NY should just turn the other cheek and tell Chicago to go f*ck themselves and thier warmongering, as the longer this goes on, the longer the Fire are enjoying flaunting the advantage they have over RB in this situation. Let’s not be naive. Hauptman isn’t doing this b/c he wants Marmol oh so bad. He’s doing it to try & make NY squirm, at the cost of a young, promising man’s career he’s willing to temporarily stall just to make a point. I think NY fans would be less bitter if they knew Chicago wanted Marmol more for his play vs. more to throw egg on JCO’s face.

I remember a young Danny Szetela wanting to play in NY as well, and also getting the shaft. Yet Freddy got to go where he wanted…

The league is only just now starting to garner attention as an acceptable destination for young talent, South American or otherwise. Nourishing it means the league steps in and helps get the deal done, for either side, and let’s move on. Hurting it means giving that talent yet another reason to avoid MLS in the future…

2. Beto- being fair only requires stating the facts fairly, not painting each side as equally wrong or right regardless of the facts. If the events dictate that one side is wrong, it’s still fair journalism.

3. rpks08- It’s interesting how you say Chicago will always be better than New York when in the past few months two players and a coach have refused to live in Chicago and demand to live in NYC.

Mikemike – why should we drop our discovery claim?? we want him on the team and have plenty of cap space… as MANY people are pointing out this is a business

your post is ridiculous…. If marmol agrees to the MLS’s contract then the Fire will deem if its worthy investment… the fire are not in anyones way… the MLS have to come to agreement with Marmol’s agent before the fire have any say…

Really, Marmol’s agent just has Marmol’s best interest at heart doesn’t he? He wants $$$, and that’s it. He knows damn well the kid will get to play, he’s holding out for the most cash. Having two teams fighting over his player, only helps his cause. Let it go guys, Marmol hasn’t known JCO long enough to be as in love with him as Conde is, as long as he gets to play with a top notch team like the RB, or a better one like the Fire, you think he’s going to nix going to play in Chicago? I mean Jersey does have one hell of a landscape though, maybe i’m wrong

EDB – I think you’re spot on w/the sequence of events w/Osorios contract. He didn’t opt out b/c he wasn’t sure he’d get the job and he was protecting himself. If NY didn’t compensate the Fire at that point it would have been clear tampering. But that isn’t discussed in the article, nor is any viewpoint from Hauptman/the Fire’s perspective. It is clearly a one-sided perspective, which is why people are questioning Ives’ journalistic integrity in this article. If you are going to write this, you need to point out that perhaps you only have 1/2 the story. Si o no?

Aguinaga – tell me what you think the fire are doing?? and why you think we are doing it to spit in JCO’s face and not b/c we actually want another talented player??

Metsfan- you are wrong… JCO is the only one who wants to live in NY…. Conde wants to play for JCO… therefore if JCO were to go to KC, then Conde wouldnt have any interest in NY…. Marmol wants to play, while he may feel comfortable in NY/NJ (as he’s been there for a couple months) he has said that he would play for either team (as he also said he enjoyed his stay in Chicago)….

Giuseppe, in reference to your question about Jersey’s landscape…let the facts answer it. Two players and a coach in recent times vehemently rejecting Chicago for Jersey. Illinois is in high demand clearlyy

HOBOKEN!!!! whoop whoop! what two players metsfans? and what coach? I don’t think JCO’s wife is a coach, but maybe i’m wrong. Anyway, after years of therapy conde may not want to hold onto JCO’s trousers but that’s hardly a geographic issue. And I never heard once from MARMOL (and i’ve been following closely) that he doesn’t want to play in CHI, so if someone could point me that link i’d appreciate it

Yeah have you been to Hoboken Giuseppe? It’s actually a fun town, thanks for noticing. And at best, there is one player and one coach who don’t want to be in Chicago, maybe Marmol doesn’t care as much. Did Blanco come to you guys because you fit in with his intelligence or was it pure coincidence?

This idea that the FIRE have less salary cap space than red bull is silly, at best. Yes, I’m aware that red bull lost a significant chunk of salary cap space. [Kovalenko, Waterreus(sp?), etc…] But the FIRE lost ~$700k in removing Wanchope, Armas, Guerrero, and Curtin from last year’s salary cap.

But bear in mind: The Fat Finger Pointer stupidly gave a HOLDING MF [you know, the type of player that a MLS team can get for ~$50k-$100k] a DP contract! So Red Bull have 2 DP contracts to satisfy, where the FIRE have only 1.

But this aside, MLS is negotiating the contract, not Guppy. [thank GOD] So if MLS says “no” to $135K/yr, its on MLS, not on Guppy.

Also, Ives is incorrect in portraying this as Hauptman ONLY wanting to screw red bull. Maybe Hauptman feels this way, but that’s immaterial to the discussion. Hamlett WANTS the player in his roster, the team has the cap space, the senior roster slot, and the international slot available. In sum, if MLS can agree with Marmol, he’ll be playing for Chicago if he wants to play in MLS.

1)Marmol has been practicing with the NY for something like 3 months. He has traveled to Austria. Osorio has known him for a good length of time it seems. I am pretty sure that NY isn’t lowballing him. I think they would pay 135k.

2) MLS would not ban a player from playing with a team if the team wants to sign them. Say if San Jose finds a player who is good and wants to spend 150k on the player. I don’t see the MLS saying “no, no no, he’s too expensive.” My basis for this is the Galaxy. As long as it fits under the cap, MLS will let a team sign a player.

3) The difference with this sitution is that Chicago has a discovery claim, and NY wants to sign him. Now MLS has two parties interested in one player.

If you believe that NY is willing to pay 135k, and that MLS will not stand in the way of one team bidding on one player, then Chicago must be against paying 135k for him.

Logically, that is the only possibility.

Very speculative, but given the facts, it seems to be what makes sense.

Maybe, Chicago is saying he is worth 75k and NY is saying 125k and MLS is spliting the difference. I don’t know. But I will put money on the fact that Chicago does not want to pay alot of money for him and they are holding out to F NY.

Virginiaman. The Chicago Fire only killed around 300 people which is miraculous when you consider how much of the city burned. The sinking of the Eastland killed almost 3 times as many people. As did the Ft. Deaborn Massacre.

But more importantly the city rose from the ashes and rebuilt itself into an even grander city with modern material at an astonishing rate. 1st ever skyscrapers were result of it and in 20 years had completely morphed into a model for urban life when it hosted the Columbian exposition and was home to some of the great Architects of the period.

The Chicago Fire is point of a pride, it’s why we’re called the Second city. Lesser city’s would have faltered and withered away. Instead Chicago grew stronger, like a forest after a wildfire.

I didn’t have to look any of this up, every true Chicagoan knows it by heart? You know why?? Because we have true civic pride, something D.C. residents will never have.

Mikemike- all of what you said was very opinionated (altho i can definately see how you would come to that conclusion)

the fact is, the MLS offered a 100k contract, it was refused…. the 135k counter offer was refused… the fire have plenty of cap, so i doubt they would see it as 75k when a gen. adidas rookie is making 50k over that O.o

I was trying to have civilized conversation. Thanks for being an jerk!

What is your explanation for the situation?

Brett-

Why would MLS be offering 100k if NY and Chicago say they will pay 135k? The only possiblities in my mind is that Chicago does not want to pay 135k, even though they can, or that Chicago is trying to delay this thing to screw with NY.

In reality, MLS is allowing Chicago to give the league a bad name by not forcing them to resolve this situation with NY.

At this point, I don’t care who gets Marmol, as long as he does sign with MLS. I assume he is a quality player, and that is jsut what this league needs.

If you are going to explain the situation away with a phantom contract clause, get some corroboration (statement from Hauptman or someone at AEG/Fire, copy of the contract, etc). This is most likely coming straight from someone at the NYRB FO who wants their organization to look better, so we can’t just take them at their word.

Why would Osorio screw over his new employers by not exercising this clause? That compensation package cost NYRB nearly a million bucks and draft pick. If I were a Red Bulls fan (shudder), I’d be pretty pissed off at this news. More likely, we haven’t heard the full story.

Mikemike – yes mike i know gen. adidas players dont count toward cap… simply putting is that the league sees it fitting to give promising talents (hopeful is a better term) a larger chunk of money to not count towards the cap… an idea to keep promising youth in the league…

in this case the fire have plenty of cap to pay marmol, i highly doubt its them… especially with MLS negotiating it…

if the fire say 75k (ur words) and Marmol says 135k, the Fire would then have their choice ahead of them… accept or drop… which leads me to believe the LEAGUE is the one running the show… this would explain giving them a chance and then the discovery claim would be moot, but Marmol has yet to agree to a price…

mike- again all your points are speculations… you think this, you think that…. im simply pointing out what has been presented to everyone… the MLS is negotiating the contract and will present it (when both parties (marmol and MLS) agree) to the fire first,who can accept or deny, then presented to the Redbulls if denied….

I am not a fan of either team and don’t care enough one way or the other as far as the feud goes to be partial in any way.

That having been said, if all of this is true, I can now say that the Chicago Fire fans and the Fire organization should consider themselves lucky. Given the circumstances, what is there for you to complain about?

JCO DID NOT violate his contract. You can’t say a person is violating their contract if they have an option in that contract that says they can legally leave that contract and be hired by anyone else in thirty days.

On top of that you could have ended up with no compensation and it would still have been legal according to the contract. So when you end up getting absurdly excessive compensation for your coach why are you upset? As far as I’m concerned you should be laughing at the Red Bulls organization. They still haven’t done much of anything as far as signing any new players and they gave you a half million in cash, a $300,000 player allocation, and a number 1 draft pick! Just how good do you think JCO is? I don’t want to start another argument (everyone make sure you hear this) but I think NYRB had a better coach in BA. If I’m the Red Bulls I would have given BA longer and spent that money and used the allocation and draft pick to improve the team instead of hiring JCO.

It seems to me the owner of the Fire and some of their fans are acting like petulant children. The Fire don’t even have reason to be resentful of NYRB getting their way and being successful at the expense of other teams to be upset about. As a lot of their fans have pointed out, NYRB has never won anything! NYRB used a DP slot on Claudio Reyna. The Fire used one and got Blanco! If the Fire management and fans feel the need to be resentful or angry at NYRB then I think they must be suffering from very low self esteem!

aristotle- ??? the JCO discussion was over months ago…. the fire fans and organization dislike him b/c he dropped us on a whim…

as a IU alum, if Bobby Knight were to drop us (assuming we drop what really happened) and start coaching Purdue you’d have similar distastes…. in fact if he went to any Big 10 team you come to the same conclusion…..

I don’t understand. If the discussion was over months ago, what exactly is happening here? Are you in denial about the discussion again taking place here because of Ives’ new post?

Also, I don’t understand all of this “whim” nonsense. This sounds like something being made up to justify the behavior of Fire fans and management. How is it a whim if JCO says that he always wanted to be the coach of NYRB someday, not to mention possible consideration for his wife and being closer to a larger Columbian community? All of this was made up, and you have proof?

He isn’t indebted to the Fire because he coached them one season. As far as I’m concerned he could have left Chicago because he just felt like it, and it still doesn’t give Chicago just cause to villainize him. It’s a job, not aa pledge of allegiance.

With Conde and Marmol in the lineup you’d have to say that the Fire would be favorites. Blanco is driven to win and they are deep all over. Their mostly second string defense has only allowed 1 goal and the players missing are due back in the next couple of weeks. And they will still have some cap space available even if they pay Marmol $150K.

Everyone is looking at this as a catfight between Red Bull and Chicago. I see it as Chicago knowing they have a good squad and trying to augment it every way possible. They have to win something before Blanco leaves so they’re probably a bit more ruthless than they would normally be.

One other aspect that is being overlooked is that Conde and Marmol are “assets” and if they play well can be sold at a profit. Chicago should not be required to relinquish their assets to Red Bull just because Red Bull thinks it would be the right thing to do.

Ives, I’d like to see the contract provisions before I believe any of this. Do you have a copy of the contract? Did you get this from Osorio, from Red Bull management? Will you/they agree to post the contract provisions here? I find it a bit hard to believe that Osorio is such a fine person that he got the Red Bulls to pay out a large sum of $ and a draft pick out of the kindness of his/their hearts. Unless, of course, it was to preempt a tampering investigation on the part of the league.

Also, as a Fire fan who regularly reads your stuff, the tone of this post really bothered me. If this is the kind of stuff we can expect as regards the Fire, you’re going to lose a reader. You’ll get some short-term page views, but lose Fire fans over the long-haul.

I think Conde is chicagos to do that they want, but I disagree with you fire fans on marmol. I can’t blame you, i blame the league, I just think its the stupidest f*cking thing that a player from another league can’t sign with who he wants, we should just go “discover” every young player in south america so next time someone wants to test mls red bulls get them first

aristotle- no he doesnt owe us anything, and thats not what im saying…. he left on a whim, b/c he’s running our team and whenever the chance appeared he up n’ left… hence y i said in my example if Knight up n’ left to Purdue IU fans would be irate….

when i said the discussion was over months ago, i mean just that… this topic was brought up merely to spark fuel into an already sensitive subject… noone can deny that there is no love loss between the two teams, and to post a 1 sided subjective article will only blow up (which it did)…

fire fans have dropped this topic (until it resurfaced today), only to post lil’ jabs here and there about a coach that had no love for chicago, so there is no love for him… simple as that…

im not saying what ives found out is inaccurate, his sources could easily be giving him accurate info… what im saying is that this topic was dropped and this only sped things back up…

“And does anyone understand how sources work? People give inside information to reporters in confidence not saying “hey, post this with my name and a written copy of everything so I can lose my job”

Steve, I suppose it’s possible that you’re naive enough to believe that sources never, you know, lie. You would have made a great White House reporter leading up to the start of the Iraq war. “Yes, Mr. Rumsfeld, I’ll type that right up for you, sir.”

None of us are saying Ives has no credibility. The contract may be as he says, and the Red Bulls might have decided to give the Fire free money. We are saying that an incendiary story that obviously quotes only Osorio/Red Bulls sources

I would have liked to see a response from the Fire, and in particular, an actual copy or quote from the contract in question. My guess is that any settlement that the Fire/Red Bulls reached as regards Osorio has a confidentiality clause, so I suspect we will never actually learn about the actual contract language.

Hey Ives, I’ve gotten kind of sick of anonymous sources over the last few years. How about actually getting someone on the record who’s willing to actually reveal the contract language?

Ugggghhhh, can’t stand the fire. I don’t think that two players on one team have missed more open goals than Barret and Calen Carr, and Blanco is still public enemy #1 in my book. Justin Mapp is the only redeeming quality they have over there, can we trade Reyna for him?… I can’t wait to see Chicago lose to San Jose on Saturday. I’ll be playing the worlds smallest violin for them.

Fire fans, stop crying, put down the tissue and listen. If you want to be mad at somebody for this topic coming back up then blame your owner, who just couldn’t help himself and had to try and get in a few more shots on Osorio. The owner is the one who went public about that clause, and if anything, I wonder why no Chicago writer even realized what the guy was saying.

Oh, and what the Fcuk does this story have to do with Marmol? He isn’t mentioned once in the story. Chicago fans trying to connect the Marmol situation with this are just plain dumb.

I can’t believe the thing about Osorio’s clause didn’t come out until now.

Please don’t go painting Hauptman as though he’s running a non-profit here. And you sound like San Jose fans with the AEG-bashing after the fact when – HELLO – you’re so quick to point out what a great frigging franchise you are. Did NONE of that happen on AEG’s watch? Please refresh my memory on that one.

Guppy’s evil and an idiot, and it appears as though Hauptman (to his credit) sees through the accent and the b.s. Good for him. Maybe it won’t be long before he cans Mr. Fire In The Belly.

Of COURSE Guppy tampered with Osorio while he was with Millionaros. Does that surprise anyone? And when it comes back to bite him – after he says flatly that Osorio would coach the team in 2008 – that strikes me as being karma. Giggity.

And, oh, by the way, any of you ever seen Marmol play? Anyone? Anyone? No? Yet you’re making it into WWIII?

Connor, you are completely wrong in regards to the Marmol situation, Chicago has just as much salary room as the Red Bulls, as they are both at the low end as far as how much they are paying their players , Chicago wants Marmol to play for them, Denis Hamlett has said as much (I wonder why Ives failed to report that). So to say that Chicago is doing anything to cause MLS to not sign Marmol is just a false claim.

Alejandro Ruiz you are truly a fool. I’m pretty sure the people in the nation’s capital would disagree with you that they don’t have civic pride. And you said, “The Chicago Fire is point of a pride, it’s why we’re called the Second city.” Chicago is, in fact, called the Second City because it is considered the second most important city in the US after NYC. Some claim it’s LA now but whatever. You’re entirely incorrect about the source of the nickname. There are “second cities” all over the world.

The article does well to point out that Osorio isn’t a horrible person, which I don’t believe he is. However, insinuating Hauptman in AEG’s shite is just shoddy journalism. He may have handled the hiring much better- who knows; all he stated is that we would not have offered such a flawed contract so that’s the perspective he is seeing it from. That said, insinuating Guppy is plenty fair…you’ll have trouble convincing me that Guppy isn’t a cutthroat backstabber (or that he hasn’t at least pulled some questionable stuff).

This is so much like the sitation with DeGrandpre and his secret AEG Altidore clause, 3 losing seasons in a row = trade to another AEG club only now Fire is not one. Just missed it really when you look at the table the past 3 seasons, ’05 just above, ’06 LOSING, ’07 just above! And then who to blame! Not JCO, that’s for sure!

At least we’re not like these Fire RBNY ffans, all the same, yack yack yack, RBNY waaaah, team’s never any good even with 2 dps, Lalas Osorio Angel Altidore, whoever! Ha not like the Cosmos! THAT was a team – fill the stadium, Pele all those guys. Metrostars, bosh! Fire – give me a break! one year: 1998. That’s it! Go home. Go home.

Oh my god this is too rich. I love it. This wins the spin of the day award.

You actually believed a story from JCO where he had a chance to walk for free, but he decided from sheer altruism to not only flush $300K of his new team’s potential salary cap space down the drain, but also potential transfer fee money and a ‘free’ shot at a potential college star?

I refuse to believe you are this naive, Ives. I absolutely refuse to believe it.

So it’s cool for someone to quit and break a contract like JCO did? Cool beans but terrible morals. Not to mention stupid for whomever negotiated JCO’s contract for the Fire to put that clause in there.

That’s just it. JCO did not break a contract. He had a clause that the team agrees to put in there. Who did those negotiating? AEG? Guppy? If AEG did it, then why was Guppy asleep at the wheel and not see it? He’s the GM.

JCO asked to leave and the teams came to terms on compensation. You could have had NOTHING!

If the Fire were really entitled to NOTHING I’m pretty sure that RBNY would have paid nothing. I don’t think they’re running a charity over there. Though it would explain some of the teams they’ve trotted out over the years…….

RBNY either paid to avoid tampering charges or because Osorio didn’t use his release clause to protect his own position.

That’s just it. You missed it. Osorio didn’t use the clause because he was trying to be a professional about the whole thing. He didn’t want to just leave Chicago with nothing. He could have and then what would people be saying?

If Osorio didn’t exercise that clause out of the kindness for the Fire, then I’d be pretty pissed at NYRB and Osorio if I were a Red Bulls fan. If that’s the case, then he just screwed your team out of $800,000 and a couple of draft picks, all of which could have been used to improve the team. Either way you look at it, Osorio screwed someone over, be it the Fire or the Red Bulls. He’s a total class(less) act!

For those who wonder where Ives got his information about having the clause, it took me about 20 seconds to do a search involving chicago and an Andrew Hauptman feature to find the quotes from him on the subject.

I’m not sure why you suggest that the contract was “poorly-constructed” — I think JCO was well advised to insist on it.

Look at the timeline again: you reported JCO would be the next Fire coach on July 5, 2007. That next week, on July 12th, Andell Holdings announced it had entered into a preliminary agreement with AEG to acquire the Fire.

Put yourself in JCO’s shoes. He had worked with Guppy, but at the time he was hired to replace Sarachan there had to have been considerable uncertainty about the new ownership and how Guppy would work with them. So JCO demanded, and got, the ability to walk away if he didn’t like what unfolded. Seems smart to me.

As for AEG, I’m not sure giving the clause to JCO was all that dumb either. Again, he probably wouldn’t come without it and with Blanco set to debut with the Fire on July 22nd, Guppy needed a coach who could work with him, and he could trust. JCO had experience in MLS, Columbia and the EPL and spoke Spanish — and Guppy had worked with him. He was a perfect fit. With a pressing need to make sure Blanco had every chance to succeed, AEG agreed to JCO’s terms and gave him the out. And he turned out to be a very good choice.

All of those decisions make perfect sense to me if you recall the events surrounding the Fire at the time.

The good thing that comes of all of this is that the rivalry is really rekindled between these two teams. The only difference is that I used to respect the Fire a lot more when Bradley and Wilt were in charge. Those were teams I feared. Now, I just can’t stand them, which is a different type of rivalry, but still good.

I would have to say that RBNY paying compensation to Chicago even though they could have had Osario opt out and get him for free has MLS’s finger prints all over it. We keep acting as if all the teams in MLS are separate entities, but they are not completely separate from each other. They are all kind of like “members” in MLS, and they all work together along with the league to keep things as fair as possible within the rules. Teams are not allowed to wheel and deal with as much money as they see fit. This was in place from the inception of MLS because they wanted to prevent another NASL-like collapse due to the one team with all the money having a ridiculous squad. So I believe compensation was given because of the nature of MLS. If the teams were truly separate entities, then I doubt any compensation would have been paid, and whoever the idiot was in the RBNY front office that chose to pay for a person that was essentially free should be fired for making one of the worst business moves in history.

Now, though we say that overseas all the teams are cut-throat towards each other, that is true to a certain extent. Teams do generally try to treat each other with respect so they can make future deals together. Hell, go back two years ago in Serie A during a friendly between Milan and Juventus, Kaka dislocated Buffon’s shoulder when they both went for a loose ball. Buffon required surgery was going to be out for around 3 months. So Milan decided to make up for it by loaning Abbiati to Juventus. So sometimes, even in Europe, rivals work together to help each other out.

You Fire fans should feel incredibly freaking grateful that Osorio didn’t just exercise his exit clause. He did you a favor.

You people who are asking Ives to reveal his sources should shut the hell up. If you’re not willing to trust Ives, then stop reading this site.

And you Fire fans who claim that Ives is just stirring the pot: you hypocrites post anti-Osorio comments with vindictive glee on Red Card every chance you get so shut the f*** up. I’m tired of your nonsense.

“Ever since Osorio said thanks, but no thanks to staying with the Fire…” Wow, I guess that about sums it up. Thanks for providing all those details.

That’s quite a rosie picture of JCO you’re painting there. I can hardly wait to see what the finished portrait looks like at the end of the season.

I’m not surprised that JCO left. Look at his resume. The guy has jumped from job to job and he expressed a desire to coach at the highest level at his first meeting with Fire STHs.

I can’t blame him for being ambitious, but I would have more respect for the man if he didn’t use his family as an excuse for leaving Chicago. No one here believes that crap he spoon fed his fellow Columbian at the Trib about being forced to make a difficult decision for the sake of his family. He’ll pull up his NY roots in a second if someone waves Euros in front of his face, and you know it. He just won’t be able to use his family as an excuse next time around.

Chicago has won the battle because of MLS’ ridiculous “discovery” rule. If RBNY wants to win the war, all they have to do is call up cousin RB Salzburg and have them sign Marmol and keep him until we can sign him. That would make MLS look ridiculous which is the way they deserve to look.

David Berger- >.< excellent addition to this topic…. its been said 50 times…. again, noone likes to address my example of this situation… assuming things didnt turn out the way they did, if Bob Knight were to have left IU to take a job at Purdue, i can promise you that IU fans would have a completely different outlook on Mr. Knight regardless of whether they got compensated for it…

while fire fans may make snide remarks from time to time about JCO, the topic was dead…. personally im happy with Hamlett… ive stood by the fact that if you dont want to be with the fire, theres the door…. doesnt mean i need to respect them if they drop us for a rival team

JCO is a great coach and is a vast improvement for NYRB. They paid the price b/c they had to – JCO didn’t exercise the option so compensation was owed simple as that. Chicago can act in its own interests re: Conde and Marmol, however twisted. I am a little disturbed that JCO seems to be banking so many of his personnel decisions on the one hand that he showed when he negotiated with NYRB (Conde, Marmol, other Colombians). I sincerely hope he has a Plan B for the next transfer window.

Who cares? Most people in Chicago have gotten over Osorio, it’s New York fans that seem to be cowering in the corner screaming stop picking on me.

Osorio is gone we don’t care, but you’re stupid if you think we’re going to give you Conde, and Marmol. That’s sports, that’s life, they’re good players we have contracts with and we’re going to try to keep them or get whatever we can from them.

IF the option is indeed true, then AEG and the Fire lied to us fans and that pisses me off….however, there is (of course) no mention of a source for the claim that there was an option in the contract….I find it funny and quite odd that there was this option…why? Because who in there right mind would NOT use the option and give a team in the SAME CONFERENCE the compensation package that the Fire got?

So what you are saying basically is that Osario decided not to use his option, and screwed over his NEW team by forcing them to give compensation to his FORMER team and COMPETITION? That just doesn’t make sense.

If I meant to imply that you were delusion I would have written ‘deluded’ I wrote diluted as in you are all plastic fantastic, phonies with the typical watered down IQ challenges facing most New Yorkers; as evidence by brilliants post by the likes of Joamiq and the appropriately named ‘douchebag’ who apparently things we are all ‘fags’ keeping it classy as always New York.

I’m not going to argue with you or anyone else here about the legitimacy of each team’s claim, but you’re giving off a “my team is always right(eous)” vibe again. You did it when you claimed the Crew was holding Danny Szetela hostage, with the Matt Jansen situation, and now again. Goff can report on DC without being a homer. Why can’t you report about NYRB without being a homer? You’re a great site for information, but posts like this really take away from your credibility. Please try and step out of your own shoes every once in a while. Thanks.

Haha papa bear nice attempted recovery. You were making the point that RBNY fans have delusions of grandeur and undervalue the Fire’s achievements and you meant ‘diluted’? Wow. And New Yorkers are plastic phonies compared to your favorite city LA? Are you trying to sound foolish? And as for preferring LA…not sure the last time I’ve seen an I Love LA shirt. It’s not the best-loved city, but that’s neither here nor there. And in reference to the irony you talked about earlier: Many spelling and grammatical errors for a post talking about low IQ. You are officially my favorite comedian; that’s how much you make me laugh.

Too much attention is being spent on this mediocre coach. Best finish as the Millionaires coach in Bogata': 4th place. Moreover, he made some unusual substitutions in the semi-final match between New England and Chicago. Lastly, who had more impact with the Fire’s success, Osorio or Blanco? I agree with an earlier comment, Osorio is an opportunist and is loyal to no one, not Bogata, Chicago or New York but to Juan. Lastly, if Conde is mad, he should be pissed at Juan and not the Fire.

So what are the other details of the “out” clause in his contract? For all we know, there was a penalty attached to that clause, like he would have to give back some of his salary or who knows what else.

Re: Conde and Marmol, it’s the NY fans who won’t shut up. We have their rights, stop asking for them.