From [email protected] Wed Mar 10 20:57:31 1993
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: [email protected] (Mark Lakata)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.music.marketplace
Subject: RFD: rec.music.marketplace reorganization
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 3 Mar 1993 23:38:57 -0500
Organization: /etc/organization
Lines: 67
Sender: [email protected]
Approved: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:3308 news.groups:67522 rec.music.marketplace:3949
REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION FOR SPLITTING REC.MUSIC.MARKETPLACE
INTRODUCTION:
rec.music.marketplace is an active group with roughly 40 posts a day
dealing with the buying and selling of anything related to music. This
classification is quite wide, and the bulk of the items for trade can
be easily classified into two groups. The first group is recordings of music,
while the second group is equipment for the creation of music.
The volume of posts of either type is consistently moderate and comparable
to each other.
SUGGESTION:
The suggestion is to create two new groups,
REC.MUSIC.MARKETPLACE.EQUIPMENT
This group will be for buying and selling used musical equipment, such
as synthesizers, guitars, band instruments, audio effects processors,
recording equipment, DJ equipment, etc. All subject headings should be
prefaced by either FOR SALE: or WANTED:
REC.MUSIC.MARKETPLACE.RECORDINGS
This group will be for buying and selling used musical recordings, such
as compact discs, vinyl records, cassette tapes, rare recordings, music
videos, etc. All subject headings should be prefaced by either FOR SALE:
or WANTED:
REC.MUSIC.MARKETPLACE would then be eliminated.
All these newsgroups will be UNMODERATED.
RATIONALE:
An informal vote, culled from the responses to the suggestion of splitting,
was 7 posts for, 0 against.
The people responding said that they were either looking for equipment
but not compact discs, or they were looking for compact discs but not
equipment. The two types of items for trade are very different and
there should be no ambiguity whether an item is a recording or piece of
equipment.
A rough overview of the last 3 days of posting break down as follows:
10 Synths for Sale or Wanted
10 Recording Equipment or Effects Processors for Sale or Wanted
5 Other Music equipment
17 Recordings Wanted
25 Recordings for Sale
21 Unnecessary Postings and Flames
Sincerely submitted,
Mark Lakata
NOTE: All subsequent discussion on this proposal should take place
in NEWS.GROUPS or at least cross-posted to it.
From [email protected] Fri Nov 25 17:46:22 1994
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: [email protected] (T. P. Uschanov)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.rock-n-roll.classic,alt.rock-n-roll.oldies,rec.antiques.radio+phono,rec.collecting,rec.music.marketplace,rec.music.misc
Subject: RFD: rec.collecting.records
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 25 Nov 1994 15:14:31 -0500
Organization: Freenet Finland
Lines: 96
Sender: [email protected]
Approved: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:5993 news.groups:124614 alt.rock-n-roll.classic:12012 alt.rock-n-roll.oldies:8449 rec.antiques.radio+phono:2163 rec.collecting:30883 rec.music.marketplace:24341 rec.music.misc:165481
REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
============================
Newsgroup Name: rec.collecting.records
Status: unmoderated
Distribution: world
Summary: Discussion and debate on issues of interest to
record collectors and those interested in buying,
selling and trading phonograph records.
Submitted by: T. P. Uschanov <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
This is a formal Request for Discussion (RFD) for the creation of the
unmoderated newsgroup rec.collecting.records.
Follow up to news.groups please.
CHARTER
=======
rec.collecting.records is intended to be an unmoderated newsgroup for buying,
selling, trading, and exchange of information, ideas and opinions regarding
records and collecting them, mainly vinyl albums and singles, but not
excluding 78 rpm records or compact discs of older or rare material. Topics
of discussion will include but are not limited to:
* Buying * Restoration, storage and preservation
* Selling * Research
* Trading * Reviews of books on and re-issues of vintage
* Queries about the values, music
provenance and authenticity * Queries about the recommendability of
of unfamiliar records records and dealers
The discussions will be in English.
RATIONALE
=========
After the period of the alleged 'demise' of vinyl records caused by the
introduction of the compact disc, there is now an increasing interest in
analog sound carriers from the past and the present, and the interest has
never been low, as the popularity of specialist magazines such as
_Goldmine_ and _DISCoveries_ shows. There are currently several newsgroups
in which discussion of records takes place, but none of them is quite
what is needed. alt.rock-n-roll.classic and alt.rock-n-roll.oldies are for
all kinds of discussion on 'classic' rock and music of the 1950s and 1960s,
respectively. rec.antiques.radio+phono is mainly for technical questions
of radios and phonographs, and the records sometimes discussed there are
invariably 78 rpm. rec.collecting is a forum for collectors, but it is
too large and varied to justify the idea of doing the record collecting
discussion there. The most controversial related group is
rec.music.marketplace. This RFD is the direct result of recent
discussion there concerning the lack of a vinyl newsgroup; it was
felt that there were many people reading r.m.m who had no interest in
buying or selling compact discs (much of them of contemporary material)
and/or musical instruments (for which there also is the little-known
newsgroup rec.music.makers.marketplace). Furthermore, r.m.m is pretty
much restricted for buying and selling only, and is therefore inappropriate
for questions and discussion. When I recently proposed newsgroup
alt.collecting.records and announced my proposal on several of the groups
mentioned above, I got more than 100 follow-up postings and personal
replies, many of them radiating enthusiasm, and challenging my fears that
a rec.* group would not pass (the reason I proposed an alt.* group first).
This RFD will be posted on the following newsgroups:
news.groups
news.announce.newgroups
alt.rock-n-roll.classic
alt.rock-n-roll.oldies
rec.antiques.radio+phono
rec.collecting
rec.music.marketplace
rec.music.misc
The discussion will be held in news.groups. The discussion will start
November 25, 1994, and will last for three weeks, until December 16, 1994.
If there is enough interest in the newsgroup, a Call for Votes (CFV) will
be posted shortly after the end of the discussion period. The voting will
be conducted by an neutral third party.
To get more information on newsgroup creation, please refer to the article
"How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" usually found on
news.announce.newsgroups.
T. P. Uschanov
[email protected][email protected]
--
t. p. uschanov internet: [email protected]
world dadaist congress [email protected]
joensuu * finland * europe bitnet: [email protected]
From [email protected] Sun Feb 12 22:49:12 1995
Status: RO
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: [email protected] (TP Uschanov)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.rock-n-roll.oldies,rec.antiques.radio+phono,rec.collecting,rec.music.classical.recordings,rec.music.marketplace,rec.music.misc
Subject: RFD: rec.collecting.recordings
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 12 Feb 1995 22:23:24 -0500
Organization: joensuu.fi
Lines: 99
Sender: [email protected]
Approved: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Xref: is1.UU.NET news.announce.newgroups:6289 news.groups:134128 alt.rock-n-roll.oldies:11651 rec.antiques.radio+phono:4337 rec.collecting:36296 rec.music.classical.recordings:3472 rec.music.marketplace:29108 rec.music.misc:171875
REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
============================
Newsgroup Name: rec.collecting.recordings
Status: unmoderated
Distribution: world
Summary: Discussion and debate on issues of interest to
record collectors and those interested in buying,
selling and trading phonograph records.
Submitted by: T. P. Uschanov <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
This is a formal Request for Discussion (RFD) for the creation of the
unmoderated newsgroup rec.collecting.recordings.
Follow up to news.groups please.
CHARTER
=======
rec.collecting.recordings is intended to be an unmoderated newsgroup for
buying, selling, trading, and exchange of information, ideas and opinions
regarding sound recordings and collecting them, mainly vinyl albums and
singles, but not excluding 78 rpm records, tapes (also of recordings never
released on disc, or commercially at all) or compact discs of older
or rare material. Topics of discussion will include but are not limited to:
* Buying * Restoration, storage and preservation
* Selling * Research
* Trading discs and tapes of them * Reviews of books on and re-issues of
* Queries about the values, vintage music
provenance and authenticity * Queries about the recommendability of
of unfamiliar recordings recordings and dealers of them
The discussions will be in English.
RATIONALE
=========
After the period of the alleged 'demise' of vinyl records caused by the
introduction of the compact disc, there is now an increasing interest in
analog sound carriers from the past and the present, and the interest has
never been low, as the popularity of specialist magazines such as
_Goldmine_ and _DISCoveries_ shows. There are currently several newsgroups
in which discussion of records takes place, but none of them is quite
what is needed. alt.rock-n-roll.classic and alt.rock-n-roll.oldies are for
all kinds of discussion on 'classic' rock and music of the 1950s and 1960s,
respectively. rec.antiques.radio+phono is mainly for technical questions
of radios and phonographs, and the records sometimes discussed there are
invariably 78 rpm. rec.collecting is a forum for collectors, but it is
too large and varied to justify the idea of doing the record collecting
discussion there. Then there is rec.music.marketplace. Various initiatives
for a group for vinyl records have been made there in recent months by
readers not interested in the majority of the postings there concerning
compact discs of contemporary pop music and musical instruments, and in late
1994 I submitted a RFD for a group named rec.collecting.records. Owing to
communication breakdowns and also partly the holiday season, a Call for Votes
(CFV) never appeared, despite considerable support for the group. A while ago
I communicated with Big 7 administrators who suggested a new RFD with a
slightly modified name and charter -- this including recorded sound in its all
forms. The majority of postings is however expected to come from collectors
of vinyl records of popular and classical music. A proposal that compacts
discs be excluded got some support from commentators on the RFD for
rec.collecting.records, but I feel that it would be increasingly artificial in
these days when CDs gain more and more ground in collecting older music,
judging by, for example, their coverage in record collecting magazines.
Following another suggestion by some older collectors and restricting the group
to 78 rpm records would restrict the group's appeal and traffic even more --
and rec.antiques.radio+phono and the 78-L mailing list are already available
for those who concentrate on them.
This RFD will be posted on the following newsgroups:
news.groups
news.announce.newgroups
alt.rock-n-roll.oldies
rec.antiques.radio+phono
rec.collecting
rec.music.classical.recordings
rec.music.marketplace
rec.music.misc
The discussion will be held in news.groups. The discussion will start
February 10, 1995, and will last for three weeks, until March 3, 1995.
If there is enough interest in the newsgroup, a Call for Votes (CFV) will
be posted shortly after the end of the discussion period. The voting will
be conducted by an neutral third party.
To get more information on newsgroup creation, please refer to the article
"How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" usually found on
news.announce.newsgroups.
T. P. Uschanov
[email protected][email protected]
From T Wed May 31 02:03:00 PDT 1995
From: T P Uschanov <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.music.misc,rec.music.market
place,rec.music.cd,rec.collecting,rec.antiques.radio+phono,alt.rock-n-roll
Subject: RFD: rec.music.collecting.* and rec.music.marketplace reorganization
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 30 May 1995 16:28:07 -0400
Organization: joensuu.fi
Lines: 136
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Xref: newshost.marcam.com news.announce.newgroups:6939 news.groups:151545 rec.m
usic.misc:180094 rec.music.marketplace:37254 rec.music.cd:57671 rec.collecting:
43955 rec.antiques.radio+phono:7746 alt.rock-n-roll:81425
REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
unmoderated group rec.music.collecting.vinyl
unmoderated group rec.music.collecting.cd (replaces rec.music.cd)
unmoderated group rec.music.collecting.misc
unmoderated group rec.music.marketplace.vinyl
unmoderated group rec.music.marketplace.cd
unmoderated group rec.music.marketplace.misc (replaces rec.music.marketplace)
Proponents: T P Uschanov <[email protected]>
Lazlo Nibble <[email protected]>
Tapio Keihanen <[email protected]>
* THIS IS NOT A CALL FOR VOTES *
* PLEASE READ THIS ENTIRE MESSAGE BEFORE RESPONDING *
PROPOSAL
--------
The creation of a subhierarchy for discussion of record collecting as a
hobby (rec.music.collecting.*) and the division of rec.music.marketplace
into format-specific groups. These two proposals are closely related in
theme, form, and intended audience, so they are being proposed together,
to wit:
CREATE rec.music.collecting.vinyl
RENAME rec.music.cd to rec.music.collecting.cd
CREATE rec.music.collecting.misc
CREATE rec.music.marketplace.vinyl
CREATE rec.music.marketplace.cd
RENAME rec.music.marketplace to rec.music.marketplace.misc
This proposal will undergo discussion in news.groups for 21 days after the
first posting of this announcement, to be followed by a Call For Votes (CFV)
on the proposal. *All* discussion of this proposal must take place in
news.groups; to follow and participate in the discussion you must read that
group.
This RFD is initially being posted to the following newsgroups:
news.announce.newgroups, news.groups, rec.music.misc,
rec.music.marketplace, rec.music.cd, rec.collecting,
rec.antiques.radio+phono, alt.rock-n-roll
RATIONALE
---------
There is significant demand for a place on the net where collectors of
vinyl LPs, singles, and other releases can discuss the format without
being "drowned out" by unrelated postings. rec.music.collecting.vinyl
will fill that niche, and rec.music.collecting.cd is, we feel, an
appropriate counterpart. (More about r.m.c.cd below.) There has also
been significant support for discussion of pre-LP collecting (78s, wax
cylinders, etc.); a .misc group is therefore proposed to hold that and
other non-CD/vinyl discussion. It should also be kept in mind that
despite its technical nature, rec.antiques.radio+phono would welcome
posts about pre-LP records.
rec.music.marketplace is long overdue for a split; many people interested
in buying music over the net prefer one of the two primary formats (vinyl
and CDs) over the other. There have been many complaints from collectors
of one format about having to "wade through" postings selling the other.
We believe that the natural dividing line for a split is .cd/.vinyl/.misc,
as proposed.
rec.music.cd is at the heart of both aspects of the proposal; the group
was created in the early days of the format, when compact discs were
something special rather than the default format that they have become
today. The newsgroup is devolving into a catch-all for general music
discussion, and in our opinion less than half of the group's current
traffic belongs there. People tend to post general comments about the
latest releases there, simply because they happen to be available on CD. A
recent check of the news spool at rt66.com revealed that the 275 messages
available on the machine at the time broke down roughly as follows:
40% CD-specific discussion (CD clubs, availability/quality questions,
etc.)
30% Wanted/Forsale postings (officially off-topic since the creation
of rec.music.marketplace)
30% Off-topic messages ("who sings this," "tell me more bands like <x>",
general discussion of artists/music, etc. appropriate for
rec.music.misc and other more specific rec.music.* and alt.music.*
groups)
In our opinion the creation of CD-specific groups for collecting and
marketplace topics will help bring the noise level down. CD-specific
discussion would go to rec.music.collecting.cd, wanted/forsale postings
would go to rec.music.marketplace.cd, and off-topic messages would
be (we hope) discouraged by the two groups' more specific names.
CHARTERS
--------
rec.music.collecting.cd
Discussion of issues relevant to collectors of audio compact discs.
Postings belong here only if they have some direct bearing on the
CD format -- the mere availability on CD of a given release is *not*
sufficient reason to discuss it here, unless the item is only
available on CD, a CD reissue, has CD-only features, etc. The
group is also not for discussion of musical quality, how much you
like an album, and so forth, as none of these questions are specific
to the CD format. Wanted and for-sale postings are off-charter here
and should be directed to the most appropriate rec.music.marketplace
group.
rec.music.collecting.vinyl
Discussion of issues relevant to collectors of vinyl LPs, singles,
and related recording formats. Wanted and for-sale postings are
off-charter here and should be directed to the most appropriate
rec.music.marketplace group.
rec.music.collecting.misc
Discussion of music-collecting issues for which there is no more
specific rec.music.collecting newsgroup. Wanted and for-sale
postings are off-charter here and should be directed to the most
appropriate rec.music.marketplace group.
rec.music.marketplace.vinyl
Postings offering and seeking sound recordings on vinyl (LPs, 7"/12"
singles, and so forth). Such postings belong in this group *only*,
both so that people interested in the material can find it and so
those who wish to avoid such postings can do so easily. Posters
are encouraged to be as specific as possible in their subject lines.
rec.music.marketplace.cd
Postings offering and seeking sound recordings on compact disc.
Such postings belong in this group *only*, both so that people
interested in the material can find it and so those who wish to
avoid such postings can do so easily. Posters are encouraged to
be as specific as possible in their subject lines.
rec.music.marketplace to rec.music.marketplace.misc
Postings offering music-related merchandise (recordings, memorabilia)
for which no more specific .marketplace group exists. Note that
rec.music.MAKERS.marketplace and its subgroups exist for the sale
of instruments and gear; those postings are off-topic here.
Comments about this proposal should be posted to news.groups and/or mailed
to the proponents.
From [email protected] Mon Jul 24 18:09:01 1995
Path: uunet!in1.uu.net!bounce-back
From: [email protected] (Steve Bonine)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.music.misc,rec.music.marketplace,rec.music.cd,rec.collecting,rec.antiques.radio+phono,alt.music.alternative,alt.rock-n-roll
Subject: CFV: rec.music.{collecting,marketplace} reorganization
Followup-To: poster
Date: 20 Jul 1995 22:12:24 -0000
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Lines: 161
Sender: [email protected]
Approved: [email protected]
Expires: 11 Aug 1995 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:7190 news.groups:160288 rec.music.misc:184034 rec.music.marketplace:41789 rec.music.cd:59570 rec.collecting:48554 rec.antiques.radio+phono:9475 alt.music.alternative:220874 alt.rock-n-roll:84106
FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
unmoderated group rec.music.collecting.cd (replaces rec.music.cd)
unmoderated group rec.music.collecting.misc
unmoderated group rec.music.collecting.vinyl
unmoderated group rec.music.marketplace.cd
unmoderated group rec.music.marketplace.misc (replaces rec.music.marketplace)
unmoderated group rec.music.marketplace.vinyl
Newsgroups lines:
rec.music.collecting.cd Compact discs of collector value.
rec.music.collecting.misc Music collecting other than vinyl or CD.
rec.music.collecting.vinyl Collecting vinyl records.
rec.music.marketplace.cd Buying and selling collectible compact discs.
rec.music.marketplace.misc Buying and selling non-vinyl/CD music.
rec.music.marketplace.vinyl Buying and selling collectible vinyl records.
Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 10 Aug 1995.
This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. For voting questions
only contact Steve Bonine <[email protected]>. For questions about the proposed
group contact T P Uschanov <[email protected]> or
Lazlo Nibble <[email protected]>.
RATIONALE
There is significant demand for a place on the net where collectors of
vinyl LPs, singles, and other releases can discuss the format without
being "drowned out" by unrelated postings. rec.music.collecting.vinyl
will fill that niche, and rec.music.collecting.cd is, we feel, an
appropriate counterpart. (More about r.m.c.cd below.) There has also
been significant support for discussion of pre-LP collecting (78s, wax
cylinders, etc.); a .misc group is therefore proposed to hold that and
other non-CD/vinyl discussion.
rec.music.marketplace is long overdue for a split; many people interested
in buying music over the net prefer one of the two primary formats (vinyl
and CDs) over the other. There have been many complaints from collectors
of one format about having to "wade through" postings selling the other.
We believe that the natural dividing line for a split is .cd/.vinyl/.misc,
as proposed.
rec.music.cd is at the heart of both aspects of the proposal; the group
was created in the early days of the format, when compact discs were
something special rather than the default format that they have become
today. The newsgroup is devolving into a catch-all for general music
discussion, and in our opinion less than half of the group's current
traffic belongs there. People tend to post general comments about the
latest releases there, simply because they happen to be available on CD. A
recent check of the news spool at rt66.com revealed that the 275 messages
available on the machine at the time broke down roughly as follows:
40% CD-specific discussion (CD clubs, availability/quality questions,
etc.)
30% Wanted/Forsale postings (officially off-topic since the creation
of rec.music.marketplace)
30% Off-topic messages ("who sings this," "tell me more bands like <x>",
general discussion of artists/music belonging to rec.music.misc
and/or specific rec.music.* and alt.music.* groups, etc.)
In our opinion the creation of CD-specific groups for collecting and
marketplace topics will help bring the noise level down. CD-specific
discussion would go to rec.music.collecting.cd, wanted/forsale postings
would go to rec.music.marketplace.cd, and off-topic messages would
be (we hope) discouraged by the two groups' more specific names.
CHARTERS
rec.music.collecting.cd
Discussion of issues relevant to collectors of audio compact discs.
Postings belong here only if they have some direct bearing on the
CD format -- the mere availability on CD of a given release is *not*
sufficient reason to discuss it here, unless the item is only
available on CD, a CD reissue, has CD-only features, etc. The
group is also not for discussion of musical quality, how much you
like an album, and so forth, as none of these questions are specific
to the CD format. Wanted and for-sale postings are off-charter here
and should be directed to the most appropriate rec.music.marketplace
group.
rec.music.collecting.vinyl
Discussion of issues relevant to collectors of vinyl LPs, singles,
and related recording formats. Wanted and for-sale postings are
off-charter here and should be directed to the most appropriate
rec.music.marketplace group.
rec.music.collecting.misc
Discussion of music-collecting issues for which there is no more
specific rec.music.collecting newsgroup. Wanted and for-sale
postings are off-charter here and should be directed to the most
appropriate rec.music.marketplace group.
rec.music.marketplace.vinyl
Postings offering and seeking sound recordings on vinyl (LPs, 7"/12"
singles, and so forth). Such postings belong in this group *only*,
both so that people interested in the material can find it and so
those who wish to avoid such postings can do so easily. Posters
are encouraged to be as specific as possible in their subject lines,
including a description of the genre and/or artists involved.
Messages offering the same items from the same seller should not be
posted more often than once a week.
rec.music.marketplace.cd
Postings offering and seeking sound recordings on compact disc.
Such postings belong in this group *only*, both so that people
interested in the material can find it and so those who wish to
avoid such postings can do so easily. Posters are encouraged to
be as specific as possible in their subject lines, including a
description of the genre and/or artists involved. Messages offering
the same items from the same seller should not be posted more often
than once a week.
rec.music.marketplace to rec.music.marketplace.misc
Postings offering music-related merchandise (recordings, memorabilia)
for which no more specific .marketplace group exists. Note that
rec.music.MAKERS.marketplace and its subgroups exist for the sale
of instruments and gear; those postings are off-topic here.
HOW TO VOTE
You must send MAIL to [email protected] (Posting in a newsgroup does not
constitute a vote.) Just replying to this article should work unless you
are reading it on a mailing list, but please check the TO address.
Please remove text before the marker line below. Voting mail is archived
by the votetakers, and hundreds of copies of the entire CFV wastes space.
Type your vote of YES or NO for each group on the line for that group.
If you do not wish to vote for a group, simply leave that line alone.
You need not worry about quoting characters which your mailer inserts.
Please type YES or NO, not Y, N, or X. The votes are tabulated by a
program, and a valid vote is defined as the word YES or NO on the same
line as the name of the group.
You may also ABSTAIN in place of YES/NO - this will not affect the outcome.
Anything else may be rejected by the automatic vote counting program. The
votetaker will respond to your received ballots with a personal acknowledge-
ment by mail - if you do not receive one within several days, try again.
It is your responsibility to make sure your vote is registered correctly.
Only one vote per person, no more than one vote per account. Addresses and
votes of all voters will be published in the final voting results list.
-=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
rec.music.collecting/marketplace reorg <RMC-0001> (Don't remove this marker)
Please give your real name here:
[Your Vote] Group
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
[ ] rec.music.collecting.cd (replaces rec.music.cd)
[ ] rec.music.collecting.misc
[ ] rec.music.collecting.vinyl
[ ] rec.music.marketplace.cd
[ ] rec.music.marketplace.misc (replaces rec.music.marketplace)
[ ] rec.music.marketplace.vinyl
-=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
This CFV will be sent to the following mailing lists:
BLUES-L <[email protected]>
BOMP-L <[email protected]>
78-L <[email protected]>
From [email protected] Thu Jul 27 20:25:37 1995
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: [email protected] (Steve Bonine)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.music.misc,rec.music.marketplace,rec.music.cd,rec.collecting,rec.antiques.radio+phono,alt.music.alternative,alt.rock-n-roll
Subject: 2nd CFV: rec.music.{collecting,marketplace} reorganization
Followup-To: poster
Date: 28 Jul 1995 00:25:08 -0000
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Lines: 166
Sender: [email protected]
Approved: [email protected]
Expires: 11 Aug 1995 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Archive-Name: rec.music.marketplace-reorg
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:7232 news.groups:161625 rec.music.misc:184515 rec.music.marketplace:42396 rec.music.cd:59755 rec.collecting:49204 rec.antiques.radio+phono:9722 alt.music.alternative:222691 alt.rock-n-roll:84318
LAST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
unmoderated group rec.music.collecting.cd (replaces rec.music.cd)
unmoderated group rec.music.collecting.misc
unmoderated group rec.music.collecting.vinyl
unmoderated group rec.music.marketplace.cd
unmoderated group rec.music.marketplace.misc (replaces rec.music.marketplace)
unmoderated group rec.music.marketplace.vinyl
Newsgroups lines:
rec.music.collecting.cd Compact discs of collector value.
rec.music.collecting.misc Music collecting other than vinyl or CD.
rec.music.collecting.vinyl Collecting vinyl records.
rec.music.marketplace.cd Buying and selling collectible compact discs.
rec.music.marketplace.misc Buying and selling non-vinyl/CD music.
rec.music.marketplace.vinyl Buying and selling collectible vinyl records.
Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 10 Aug 1995.
This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. For voting questions
only contact Steve Bonine <[email protected]>. For questions about the proposed
group contact T P Uschanov <[email protected]> or
Lazlo Nibble <[email protected]>.
RATIONALE
There is significant demand for a place on the net where collectors of
vinyl LPs, singles, and other releases can discuss the format without
being "drowned out" by unrelated postings. rec.music.collecting.vinyl
will fill that niche, and rec.music.collecting.cd is, we feel, an
appropriate counterpart. (More about r.m.c.cd below.) There has also
been significant support for discussion of pre-LP collecting (78s, wax
cylinders, etc.); a .misc group is therefore proposed to hold that and
other non-CD/vinyl discussion.
rec.music.marketplace is long overdue for a split; many people interested
in buying music over the net prefer one of the two primary formats (vinyl
and CDs) over the other. There have been many complaints from collectors
of one format about having to "wade through" postings selling the other.
We believe that the natural dividing line for a split is .cd/.vinyl/.misc,
as proposed.
rec.music.cd is at the heart of both aspects of the proposal; the group
was created in the early days of the format, when compact discs were
something special rather than the default format that they have become
today. The newsgroup is devolving into a catch-all for general music
discussion, and in our opinion less than half of the group's current
traffic belongs there. People tend to post general comments about the
latest releases there, simply because they happen to be available on CD. A
recent check of the news spool at rt66.com revealed that the 275 messages
available on the machine at the time broke down roughly as follows:
40% CD-specific discussion (CD clubs, availability/quality questions,
etc.)
30% Wanted/Forsale postings (officially off-topic since the creation
of rec.music.marketplace)
30% Off-topic messages ("who sings this," "tell me more bands like <x>",
general discussion of artists/music belonging to rec.music.misc
and/or specific rec.music.* and alt.music.* groups, etc.)
In our opinion the creation of CD-specific groups for collecting and
marketplace topics will help bring the noise level down. CD-specific
discussion would go to rec.music.collecting.cd, wanted/forsale postings
would go to rec.music.marketplace.cd, and off-topic messages would
be (we hope) discouraged by the two groups' more specific names.
CHARTERS
rec.music.collecting.cd
Discussion of issues relevant to collectors of audio compact discs.
Postings belong here only if they have some direct bearing on the
CD format -- the mere availability on CD of a given release is *not*
sufficient reason to discuss it here, unless the item is only
available on CD, a CD reissue, has CD-only features, etc. The
group is also not for discussion of musical quality, how much you
like an album, and so forth, as none of these questions are specific
to the CD format. Wanted and for-sale postings are off-charter here
and should be directed to the most appropriate rec.music.marketplace
group.
rec.music.collecting.vinyl
Discussion of issues relevant to collectors of vinyl LPs, singles,
and related recording formats. Wanted and for-sale postings are
off-charter here and should be directed to the most appropriate
rec.music.marketplace group.
rec.music.collecting.misc
Discussion of music-collecting issues for which there is no more
specific rec.music.collecting newsgroup. Wanted and for-sale
postings are off-charter here and should be directed to the most
appropriate rec.music.marketplace group.
rec.music.marketplace.vinyl
Postings offering and seeking sound recordings on vinyl (LPs, 7"/12"
singles, and so forth). Such postings belong in this group *only*,
both so that people interested in the material can find it and so
those who wish to avoid such postings can do so easily. Posters
are encouraged to be as specific as possible in their subject lines,
including a description of the genre and/or artists involved.
Messages offering the same items from the same seller should not be
posted more often than once a week.
rec.music.marketplace.cd
Postings offering and seeking sound recordings on compact disc.
Such postings belong in this group *only*, both so that people
interested in the material can find it and so those who wish to
avoid such postings can do so easily. Posters are encouraged to
be as specific as possible in their subject lines, including a
description of the genre and/or artists involved. Messages offering
the same items from the same seller should not be posted more often
than once a week.
rec.music.marketplace to rec.music.marketplace.misc
Postings offering music-related merchandise (recordings, memorabilia)
for which no more specific .marketplace group exists. Note that
rec.music.MAKERS.marketplace and its subgroups exist for the sale
of instruments and gear; those postings are off-topic here.
HOW TO VOTE
You must send MAIL to [email protected] (Posting in a newsgroup does not
constitute a vote.) Just replying to this article should work unless you
are reading it on a mailing list, but please check the TO address.
Please remove text before the marker line below. Voting mail is archived
by the votetakers, and hundreds of copies of the entire CFV wastes space.
Type your vote of YES or NO for each group on the line for that group.
If you do not wish to vote for a group, simply leave that line alone.
You need not worry about quoting characters which your mailer inserts.
Please type YES or NO, not Y, N, or X. The votes are tabulated by a
program, and a valid vote is defined as the word YES or NO on the same
line as the name of the group.
You may also ABSTAIN in place of YES/NO - this will not affect the outcome.
Anything else may be rejected by the automatic vote counting program. The
votetaker will respond to your received ballots with a personal acknowledge-
ment by mail - if you do not receive one within several days, try again.
It is your responsibility to make sure your vote is registered correctly.
Only one vote per person, no more than one vote per account. Addresses and
votes of all voters will be published in the final voting results list.
-=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
rec.music.collecting/marketplace reorg <RMC-0002> (Don't remove this marker)
Please give your real name here:
[Your Vote] Group
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
[ ] rec.music.collecting.cd (replaces rec.music.cd)
[ ] rec.music.collecting.misc
[ ] rec.music.collecting.vinyl
[ ] rec.music.marketplace.cd
[ ] rec.music.marketplace.misc (replaces rec.music.marketplace)
[ ] rec.music.marketplace.vinyl
-=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
This CFV will be sent to the following mailing lists:
BLUES-L <[email protected]>
BOMP-L <[email protected]>
78-L <[email protected]>
rec.music.collecting/marketplace reorg Bounce List - No need to revote
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[email protected] Eric Fritts
From [email protected] Fri Aug 11 14:54:03 1995
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: [email protected] (Steve Bonine)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.music.misc,rec.music.marketplace,rec.music.cd,rec.collecting,rec.antiques.radio+phono,alt.music.alternative,alt.rock-n-roll
Subject: RESULT: rec.music.{collecting,marketplace} reorganization passes
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 11 Aug 1995 18:53:53 -0000
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Lines: 284
Sender: [email protected]
Approved: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Archive-Name: rec.music.marketplace-reorg
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:7327 news.groups:163883 rec.music.misc:185489 rec.music.marketplace:43631 rec.music.cd:60245 rec.collecting:50614 rec.antiques.radio+phono:10254 alt.music.alternative:226340 alt.rock-n-roll:84851
RESULT
unmoderated group rec.music.collecting.cd passes 143:19
unmoderated group rec.music.collecting.misc passes 143:20
unmoderated group rec.music.collecting.vinyl passes 153:16
unmoderated group rec.music.marketplace.cd passes 146:17
unmoderated group rec.music.marketplace.misc passes 143:23
unmoderated group rec.music.marketplace.vinyl passes 151:18
Yes No : 2/3? >100? : Pass? : Group
---- ---- : ---- ----- : ----- : -------------------------------------------
143 19 : Yes Yes : Yes : rec.music.collecting.cd (replaces rec.music.cd)
143 20 : Yes Yes : Yes : rec.music.collecting.misc
153 16 : Yes Yes : Yes : rec.music.collecting.vinyl
146 17 : Yes Yes : Yes : rec.music.marketplace.cd
143 23 : Yes Yes : Yes : rec.music.marketplace.misc (replaces rec.music.marketplace)
151 18 : Yes Yes : Yes : rec.music.marketplace.vinyl
For group passage, YES votes must be at least 2/3 of all valid (YES and NO)
votes. There also must be at least 100 more YES votes than NO votes.
There is a five day discussion period after these results are posted. If no
serious allegations of voting irregularities are raised, the moderator of
news.announce.newgroups will create the groups shortly thereafter.
Newsgroups lines:
rec.music.collecting.cd Compact discs of collector value.
rec.music.collecting.misc Music collecting other than vinyl or CD.
rec.music.collecting.vinyl Collecting vinyl records.
rec.music.marketplace.cd Buying and selling collectible compact discs.
rec.music.marketplace.misc Buying and selling non-vinyl/CD music.
rec.music.marketplace.vinyl Buying and selling collectible vinyl records.
Voting closed at 23:59:59 UTC, 10 Aug 1995.
This vote was conducted by a neutral third party. For voting questions
only contact Steve Bonine <[email protected]>. For questions about the proposed
group contact T P Uschanov <[email protected]> or
Lazlo Nibble <[email protected]>.
CHARTER: rec.music.collecting.cd
Discussion of issues relevant to collectors of audio compact discs.
Postings belong here only if they have some direct bearing on the
CD format -- the mere availability on CD of a given release is *not*
sufficient reason to discuss it here, unless the item is only
available on CD, a CD reissue, has CD-only features, etc. The
group is also not for discussion of musical quality, how much you
like an album, and so forth, as none of these questions are specific
to the CD format. Wanted and for-sale postings are off-charter here
and should be directed to the most appropriate rec.music.marketplace
group.
CHARTER: rec.music.collecting.vinyl
Discussion of issues relevant to collectors of vinyl LPs, singles,
and related recording formats. Wanted and for-sale postings are
off-charter here and should be directed to the most appropriate
rec.music.marketplace group.
CHARTER: rec.music.collecting.misc
Discussion of music-collecting issues for which there is no more
specific rec.music.collecting newsgroup. Wanted and for-sale
postings are off-charter here and should be directed to the most
appropriate rec.music.marketplace group.
CHARTER: rec.music.marketplace.vinyl
Postings offering and seeking sound recordings on vinyl (LPs, 7"/12"
singles, and so forth). Such postings belong in this group *only*,
both so that people interested in the material can find it and so
those who wish to avoid such postings can do so easily. Posters
are encouraged to be as specific as possible in their subject lines,
including a description of the genre and/or artists involved.
Messages offering the same items from the same seller should not be
posted more often than once a week.
CHARTER: rec.music.marketplace.cd
Postings offering and seeking sound recordings on compact disc.
Such postings belong in this group *only*, both so that people
interested in the material can find it and so those who wish to
avoid such postings can do so easily. Posters are encouraged to
be as specific as possible in their subject lines, including a
description of the genre and/or artists involved. Messages offering
the same items from the same seller should not be posted more often
than once a week.
CHARTER: rec.music.marketplace.misc
Postings offering music-related merchandise (recordings, memorabilia)
for which no more specific .marketplace group exists. Note that
rec.music.MAKERS.marketplace and its subgroups exist for the sale
of instruments and gear; those postings are off-topic here.
rec.music.collecting/marketplace reorg Final Vote Ack
rec.music.marketplace.vinyl --------+
rec.music.marketplace.misc (replaces rec.music.marketplace) -------+|
rec.music.marketplace.cd ------+||
rec.music.collecting.vinyl -----+|||
rec.music.collecting.misc ----+||||
rec.music.collecting.cd (replaces rec.music.cd) ---+|||||
||||||
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[email protected] Y-Y---
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