Yet another waste of taxpayer money for another diversion from the russia investigation.

[Edited on 10/9/2017 by PhotoRon286]

pops42 - 10/8/2017 at 10:07 PM

trump is still butt-hurt over NFL owners rejecting him,and preventing him from purchasing the Buffalo Bills in the 90s. all those who burn their season tickets, and whine because of players wanting to bring attention to people of color being targeted and murdered by police, are racist morons.

MartinD28 - 10/8/2017 at 10:35 PM

quote:Moron in chief told pence to leave the game if anyone took a knee during the anthem.

I mean, who would have thought San Francisco would do that since they've been kneeling since LAST SEASON?

I'm sure the rubes at faux will fall all over how patriotic pence was.

Yet another waste of taxpayer money for another diversion from the russia investigation.

Ron - spot on with the facts.

One thing that this shows us is that the Moron In Chief has planning skills. Unfortunately he used them to waste taxpayer money & advance a cultural issue to divert from Russia & all the rest of his problems / failures. But when the guy is at 32% in the polls, desperation kicks in.

Pence got up off his knees, wiped the pussygrabber's dribble off his chin, and went and did as he was told like the good little religious fanatical hypocrite lap dog he is.

LeglizHemp - 10/9/2017 at 02:31 AM

I wouldn't expect that you will see Trump or Pence at any sporting events in the future.

StratDal - 10/9/2017 at 02:33 AM

quote:trump is still butt-hurt over NFL owners rejecting him,and preventing him from purchasing the Buffalo Bills in the 90s. all those who burn their season tickets, and whine because of players wanting to bring attention to people of color being targeted and murdered by police, are racist morons.

I wouldn't call them all "racist" but one thing for sure is many of our citizens take professional sports too seriously. To have the time and resources to support and watch sports teams for entertainment and/or escape, maybe things aren't so bad in the good ol' USA.
crazyjoe - 10/9/2017 at 03:39 AM

quote:

quote:trump is still butt-hurt over NFL owners rejecting him,and preventing him from purchasing the Buffalo Bills in the 90s. all those who burn their season tickets, and whine because of players wanting to bring attention to people of color being targeted and murdered by police, are racist morons.

I wouldn't call them all "racist" but one thing for sure is many of our citizens take professional sports too seriously. To have the time and resources to support and watch sports teams for entertainment and/or escape, maybe things aren't so bad in the good ol' USA.

Fairly obvious I guess that Pence was only sent there to pull off this idiotic stunt.

For the record, I would have to say I lean towards the top statement, I live in Indiana! I work with these People, I live with these People, 1 or 2 of them are Friends!!?? But yes, a majority of the hard right winger Trump supporters are pretty much bigoted Folks of low intellect. Certainly, if the racist/moron shoe fits, wear it!

StratDal, do You also think, People expend way to much time and resources on going to the movies, I think People take movies way too seriously, I never go the the movies and rarely watch one at home, just not interested. Would You think driving 100 miles to see a concert to be a waste? Of course, top athletes are paid to much, just as top movie stars are, music, I don't know, Taylor Swift and Katy Perry and the like make millions, while real musicians struggle!.........I wandered a bit......Peace........joe

[Edited on 10/9/2017 by crazyjoe]
2112 - 10/9/2017 at 07:39 AM

It cost taxpayers a lot more than $90,000. Air Force 2 costs around $43,000 per hour to fly. He flew 2.5 hours from Las Vegas to Indianapolis and then all the way back to Southern California after he left the game for a fundraiser. So Air Force 2 costs were over $200,000.. Note that the fundraiser in California was at 6 pm, so it was obvious he never had any intention to watch the game. Add in all the extra security and it cost well over a quarter million dollars.

One thing that this shows us is that the Moron In Chief has planning skills.

Planning skills? Does it really take more planning & skill to order the VP in his home state to make a statement than to tweet an inflammatory response to anything that infuriates the insecure bully in the oval office?

You give him far more credit than he deserves.
Wis608 - 10/9/2017 at 11:47 AM

quote:Moron in chief told pence to leave the game if anyone took a knee during the anthem.

I mean, who would have thought San Francisco would do that since they've been kneeling since LAST SEASON?

I'm sure the rubes at faux will fall all over how patriotic pence was.

Yet another waste of taxpayer money for another diversion from the russia investigation.

What difference does it make if it is was pre planned or not?
I sure it was, but who cares. He has his feelings along with the administration and is entitled to them .

If Pence would have stayed nobody would be talking how much it cost the tax payers.
Stayed or not, it still cost money.
You think this is the first time a presidential administration is taking advantage of tax payer money?!?! Nothing new with the gov't fleecing the public
of money no matter what party is in office.

OriginalGoober - 10/9/2017 at 01:05 PM

Thank you VP Pence for taking a stand with all the NFL fans who think this misguided protest disrespects America and those who served. This protest has carried on way too long and is alienating lots of fans.

MartinD28 - 10/9/2017 at 01:23 PM

quote:
Thank you VP Pence for taking a stand with all the NFL fans who think this misguided protest disrespects America and those who served. This protest has carried on way too long and is alienating lots of fans.

You probably can't understand the motives, but they aren't about disrespecting America. Take a look at the bigger picture if you're capable of getting there.
MartinD28 - 10/9/2017 at 01:29 PM

quote:

quote: Ron - spot on with the facts.

One thing that this shows us is that the Moron In Chief has planning skills.

Planning skills? Does it really take more planning & skill to order the VP in his home state to make a statement than to tweet an inflammatory response to anything that infuriates the insecure bully in the oval office?

You give him far more credit than he deserves.

Actually the planning skills was said tongue-in-cheek. I give him very little credit, as that is something that has to be earned. He hasn't earned much in 9 months.
pops42 - 10/9/2017 at 01:43 PM

quote:
Thank you VP Pence for taking a stand with all the NFL fans who think this misguided protest disrespects America and those who served. This protest has carried on way too long and is alienating lots of fans.

YOU and others are easily led, and told what to think by the orange moron.
OriginalGoober - 10/9/2017 at 02:00 PM

its misguided, disrespectful, divisive, and no different than showing up to a MLK celebration and start waving a confederate flag claiming free speech.

pops42 - 10/9/2017 at 02:03 PM

quote:

its misguided, disrespectful, divisive, and no different than showing up to a MLK celebration and start waving a confederate flag claiming free speech.

You are not too bright.
MartinD28 - 10/9/2017 at 02:16 PM

quote:

its misguided, disrespectful, divisive, and no different than showing up to a MLK celebration and start waving a confederate flag claiming free speech.

Trump stages a cultural divide & tweets about the NFL players in Indiana yesterday, but ignores the white supremacists that once again marched in C'ville this past weekend.

The difference? MOTUS probably believes there were some "really fine people" marching in C'ville.
goldtop - 10/9/2017 at 02:39 PM

I wonder when kneeling became disrespectful. How many kneel before their wife when they ask to marry them. I was taught to kneel when we pray. I was taught to kneel when I approach the casket of a loved one. They have kneeling alters at cemeteries so when we pay "respect" to our lost loved one we have a comfortable place for our knees

When did Kneeling become disrespectful?...Kap was told by an ex-NFL Vet that kneeling was a sign of respect...

Have we all been lied to...fake news all our lives that anytime we wanted to show disrespect all we had to do was take a knee

So when the players take a knee after another on get hurt was that about taunting that hurt player...while they have their heads down and look like their praying???

I'm a bit confused...but then again we had enough idiots to vote in the MOTUS so I guess 6 really is 9

jkeller - 10/9/2017 at 02:42 PM

quote:

its misguided, disrespectful, divisive, and no different than showing up to a MLK celebration and start waving a confederate flag claiming free speech.

This has been covered for a year now and you still don't have a clue what it is about. HINT: It has nothing to do with the flag. The flag is a symbol, nothing more.
OriginalGoober - 10/9/2017 at 02:53 PM

I ran in a 5 k last week and the anthem was performed before the start and the race organizers actually said anyone who kneels will be automatically dq'd. This is coming from good people who volunteer their time to the community and dont just spout off on the internet. this protest has morphed into something more than when Kap first started last season. Such strong opinions on both sides about the meaning and reasons for standing during the anthem. Its not about whether they have the right to do this or not . Everyone gets that. Does anyone know when will they stop kneeling? What would it take to make this happen? THis protest is so incoherent I doubt that anyone knows what the answer would be.

porkchopbob - 10/9/2017 at 03:07 PM

quote: Does anyone know when will they stop kneeling? What would it take to make this happen? THis protest is so incoherent I doubt that anyone knows what the answer would be.

If you ignore behavior and stop feeding it attention, it will typically go away. It was barely a topic until Trump fanned the flames and players started protesting him instead. It had quieted down considerably since, but then Pence made a big silly show of himself at Trump's urging. Honestly, it's all silly and not worth anyone getting too upset about, on either side. Grown men filming themselves burning shirts that other grown men wear to work. And the Federal government is scheduling trips for their own protests?
2112 - 10/9/2017 at 04:25 PM

quote:

quote: Does anyone know when will they stop kneeling? What would it take to make this happen? THis protest is so incoherent I doubt that anyone knows what the answer would be.

If you ignore behavior and stop feeding it attention, it will typically go away. It was barely a topic until Trump fanned the flames and players started protesting him instead. It had quieted down considerably since, but then Pence made a big silly show of himself at Trump's urging. Honestly, it's all silly and not worth anyone getting too upset about, on either side. Grown men filming themselves burning shirts that other grown men wear to work. And the Federal government is scheduling trips for their own protests?

Some people just need to check twitter every morning to find out what they are supposed to be outraged at that day.
Bhawk - 10/9/2017 at 05:03 PM

quote:Does anyone know when will they stop kneeling? What would it take to make this happen?

Why does it bother you so much?

quote:THis protest is so incoherent I doubt that anyone knows what the answer would be.

Actually, as a symbolic gesture, it's pretty clear, and several players have quite clearly stated their reasons. Don't care about the details, huh?
BIGV - 10/9/2017 at 05:14 PM

quote:

quote:
Thank you VP Pence for taking a stand with all the NFL fans who think this misguided protest disrespects America and those who served. This protest has carried on way too long and is alienating lots of fans.

You probably can't understand the motives, but they aren't about disrespecting America.

Absolutely subject to interpretation and I'm sure we "understand the motives" perfectly. They are Imho, wrong.

Just place me in the group who believes the V.P was spot on. Thanks Mr. Pence!

How about these NFL brats taking this protest to a Police Dept of their organized choice?...Take a knee there, hold up signs, march, parade, whatever. Better yet, take it to a Military base when the caskets of the fallen are coming home, see where that gets you.

Leave the flag and the anthem out of it.
2112 - 10/9/2017 at 05:18 PM

quote:

quote:

quote:
Thank you VP Pence for taking a stand with all the NFL fans who think this misguided protest disrespects America and those who served. This protest has carried on way too long and is alienating lots of fans.

You probably can't understand the motives, but they aren't about disrespecting America.

Absolutely subject to interpretation and I'm sure we "understand tt heard he motives" perfectly. They are Imho, wrong.

Just place me in the group who believes the V.P was spot on. Thanks Mr. Pence!

How about these NFL brats taking this protest to a Police Dept of their organized choice?...Take a knee there, hold up signs, march, parade, whatever. Better yet, take it to a Military base when the caskets of the fallen are coming home, see where that gets you.

Leave the flag and the anthem out of it.

What does the military have to do with it? I haven't heard a single NFL player say a single word against the military.
BIGV - 10/9/2017 at 05:22 PM

quote: What does the military have to do with it? I haven't heard a single NFL player say a single word against the military.

Just who do you think puts their life for the right to "protest"?

That my friend is exactly what the Flag means to me.
jkeller - 10/9/2017 at 05:28 PM

quote:

quote: What does the military have to do with it? I haven't heard a single NFL player say a single word against the military.

Just who do you think puts their life for the right to "protest"?

That my friend is exactly what the Flag means to me.

The flag is not a symbol of the military. It is a symbol of the country which includes the First Amendment.
BIGV - 10/9/2017 at 05:52 PM

quote:

quote:

quote: What does the military have to do with it? I haven't heard a single NFL player say a single word against the military.

Just who do you think puts their life for the right to "protest"?

That my friend is exactly what the Flag means to me.

The flag is not a symbol of the military. It is a symbol of the country which includes the First Amendment.

Once again, you and I see things differently. Walk up to a man in uniform and tell him what the Flag is supposed to stand for.
cyclone88 - 10/9/2017 at 05:59 PM

quote:
Actually the planning skills was said tongue-in-cheek. I give him very little credit, as that is something that has to be earned. He hasn't earned much in 9 months.

Apologies. I think it was off the top of his head & he was forced to wait until there was another game before he could enact his little revenge/fit/show/whatever. He doesn't like to wait, but he does hold long grudges.

I'd hate to be in logistics for either #1 or #2. Whiplash springs to mind.
porkchopbob - 10/9/2017 at 06:35 PM

quote:

quote:

quote:

quote: What does the military have to do with it? I haven't heard a single NFL player say a single word against the military.

Just who do you think puts their life for the right to "protest"?

That my friend is exactly what the Flag means to me.

The flag is not a symbol of the military. It is a symbol of the country which includes the First Amendment.

Once again, you and I see things differently. Walk up to a man in uniform and tell him what the Flag is supposed to stand for.

So what does the Costa Rican flag stand for? They have no standing army.
PhotoRon286 - 10/9/2017 at 06:51 PM

quote:

its misguided, disrespectful, divisive, and no different than showing up to a MLK celebration and start waving a confederate flag claiming free speech.

Outside of the fact that is a stupid "what if" comparison, where was your outage at tim tebow taking a knee during the anthem when he played???
jkeller - 10/9/2017 at 07:07 PM

quote:

quote:

quote:

quote: What does the military have to do with it? I haven't heard a single NFL player say a single word against the military.

Just who do you think puts their life for the right to "protest"?

That my friend is exactly what the Flag means to me.

The flag is not a symbol of the military. It is a symbol of the country which includes the First Amendment.

Once again, you and I see things differently. Walk up to a man in uniform and tell him what the Flag is supposed to stand for.

Exactly. And the NFL players see it differently, as do some in uniform. But you seem to 5hink everyone should think like you. My point is that the protests have nothing to do with the flag.

BTW, the flag is ther3 for 5he entire game. They kneel for the National Anthem. But it is about the flag, right?
BoytonBrother - 10/9/2017 at 07:07 PM

For those offended/annoyed by taking a knee still, get the F over it already or stop watching! If you come on here next week all upset that players are still kneeling, it's your own dumb fault for turning on the game. Maybe football isn't for you if taking a knee upsets you so much.

2112 - 10/9/2017 at 08:26 PM

quote:

quote: What does the military have to do with it? I haven't heard a single NFL player say a single word against the military.

Just who do you think puts their life for the right to "protest"?

That my friend is exactly what the Flag means to me.

Really, because I've studied the history of the flag. The 50 stars stands for each state. The 13 stripes stands for the 13 original colonies. No part of the flag when it was created was meant to stand for the military.

And besides, the protesters have specifically stated that they have no disrespect for the military. If they don't intend any disrespect, then it is your imagination making up the disrespect to the military and nothing else.

By the way, as I've stated in the past, I don't care for this protest. I think you should stand for the nationa anthem. But thanks to Trump and Pence, the protest is getting a lot more attention than it really deserves and as such has been much more successful than it probably should have. Everytime someone talks about this protest, whether good or bad, it is a win for the protesters.
MartinD28 - 10/9/2017 at 08:37 PM

quote:

quote:

quote: What does the military have to do with it? I haven't heard a single NFL player say a single word against the military.

Just who do you think puts their life for the right to "protest"?

That my friend is exactly what the Flag means to me.

Really, because I've studied the history of the flag. The 50 stars stands for each state. The 13 stripes stands for the 13 original colonies. No part of the flag when it was created was meant to stand for the military.

And besides, the protesters have specifically stated that they have no disrespect for the military. If they don't intend any disrespect, then it is your imagination making up the disrespect to the military and nothing else.

By the way, as I've stated in the past, I don't care for this protest. I think you should stand for the nationa anthem. But thanks to Trump and Pence, the protest is getting a lot more attention than it really deserves and as such has been much more successful than it probably should have. Everytime someone talks about this protest, whether good or bad, it is a win for the protesters.

Good points...good post.

The problem is that the facts you've presented seem to get in the way of what some want to make & misrepresent of the flag, amendments, and intentions of protest. They've attempted to connect dots that really don't connect which makes the premise of their argument more a personal belief as opposed to being grounded in fact.
jkeller - 10/9/2017 at 09:14 PM

quote:

quote:

quote:

quote: What does the military have to do with it? I haven't heard a single NFL player say a single word against the military.

Just who do you think puts their life for the right to "protest"?

That my friend is exactly what the Flag means to me.

Really, because I've studied the history of the flag. The 50 stars stands for each state. The 13 stripes stands for the 13 original colonies. No part of the flag when it was created was meant to stand for the military.

And besides, the protesters have specifically stated that they have no disrespect for the military. If they don't intend any disrespect, then it is your imagination making up the disrespect to the military and nothing else.

By the way, as I've stated in the past, I don't care for this protest. I think you should stand for the nationa anthem. But thanks to Trump and Pence, the protest is getting a lot more attention than it really deserves and as such has been much more successful than it probably should have. Everytime someone talks about this protest, whether good or bad, it is a win for the protesters.

Good points...good post.

The problem is that the facts you've presented seem to get in the way of what some want to make & misrepresent of the flag, amendments, and intentions of protest. They've attempted to connect dots that really don't connect which makes the premise of their argument more a personal belief as opposed to being grounded in fact.

Agree. The flag has been co-opted to mean something that flags were never intended to mean.
porkchopbob - 10/9/2017 at 10:40 PM

quote:Agree. The flag has been co-opted to mean something that flags were never intended to mean.

Each branch of the military has its own unique flag. When the military flies the US flag, it represents all those they are fighting for (hint: us). So ask yourself, is there any other nation that when you see their flag, you first think about that nation's military?

[Edited on 10/9/2017 by porkchopbob]
BIGV - 10/9/2017 at 11:16 PM

quote:

quote:

its misguided, disrespectful, divisive, and no different than showing up to a MLK celebration and start waving a confederate flag claiming free speech.

Outside of the fact that is a stupid "what if" comparison, where was your outage at tim tebow taking a knee during the anthem when he played???

Tim Tebow? Please. For whatever reason, I have disdain for anyone who will not stand for the anthem.

Your mileage may vary
BIGV - 10/9/2017 at 11:39 PM

quote:For those offended/annoyed by taking a knee still, get the F over it already or stop watching! If you come on here next week all upset that players are still kneeling, it's your own dumb fault for turning on the game. Maybe football isn't for you if taking a knee upsets you so much.

I will continue to watch the NFL and will continue to "be bothered" by the actions they believe in.

I repeat, take this peaceful protest to your nearest Police Department where it might have more impact.
BrerRabbit - 10/10/2017 at 01:48 AM

An Open Letter of Support for Colin Kaepernick From American Military Veterans

U.S. Army veteran Richard Allen Smith felt like he was walking with a rock in his shoe all day. In the aftermath of Colin Kaepernick’s protest of the national anthem, Smith heard a lot about how he had been disrespected by what the San Francisco 49ers quarterback had done and said from a lot of folks who never served in the armed forces.

Kaepernick has been sitting during the singing of The Star Spangled Banner the entire preseason, although it was only noticed last Friday when he was dressed to play. In an exclusive interview with NFL.com’s Steve Wyche, Kaepernick explained his protest: “I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color. To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way.”

Smith said that people burning the quarterback’s jersey “with the troops and veterans being the reason seemed ridiculous.” Being used wasn’t a new feeling. Smith said politicians and corporations often use the military and its servicemen and women for promotion. That leaves some veterans, like Smith, feeling like props for people who haven’t made the sacrifice, but want to cloak themselves in their credibility.

By writing this letter, which was written on Medium, it was an opportunity for him and other vets to counter that rationale.
Although the 31-year-old works as a media strategist with the National Education Association, the letter was thought of, created and crafted as something entirely outside of his job and among some of Smith’s friends and colleagues.

One of the most important things about the letter is the diversity of the people signing it and the reasons that they are putting their names on it.

“I wanted to put something out there in the world … to say that ‘There are veterans who not only agree with Colin Kaepernick’s right to do that, but also agree with the substance of the action,’ ” Smith said. “And are willing to stand up and say Black Lives Matter and this is an important issue that we need to address in our country.

“This is an incredibly diverse list of people. I didn’t know how many signatures I was going to get – if I’m going to get five or 10 signatures on this letter. … There’s diversity in service – every branch of the service is represented here – there are black people, white people, Latinos, a Native American person on here. Gay veterans, straight veterans, female veterans, male veterans from both coast to southeast, to southwest, the heartland, pretty much any sort of identity you can imagine, it’s signed onto this letter in the form of one person or more.”

* * * *

An Open Letter of Support for Colin Kaepernick From American Military Veterans

In 1947, former Army officer Jackie Robinson broke the color barrier in Major League Baseball. Robinson experienced taunts, epithets, and threats of violence for simply standing up to the status quo of segregation in America.

Since 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick engaged in a silent protest to bring attention to the state of emergency facing people of color in America, a chorus of detractors have lined up to denounce his stand, or more accurately his sit. Fans have burned his jersey. A presidential candidate suggested he leave the country. Many have claimed his protest disrespected American veterans.

Jackie Robinson isn’t here today to tell us what he would think of Kaepernick’s protest. But he did convey the same sentiment about the national anthem as Kaepernick in his 1972 autobiography, writing, “I cannot stand and sing the anthem. I cannot salute the flag; I know that I am a black man in a white world.”

As military veterans, we write to express our support for the tradition of advocacy by athletes that is embodied by Jackie Robinson and carried on by Colin Kaepernick.

For generations, American athletes have used their public voice to force our collective attention towards the crises and issues that challenge our national conscience. Jackie Robinson, Muhammad Ali, Jim Brown, Tommie Smith, John Carlos, Ariyana Smith, the Minnesota Lynx, the Missouri Tigers football team, and stars across professional sports declaring that #BlackLivesMatter, are all part of a brave tradition of protest by athletes. Far from an anomaly, athletes leading on social change has been the norm in America. The right for those athletes, and all Americans, to protest is one we all pledged to defend with our lives if necessary. Far from disrespecting our troops, there is no finer form of appreciation for our sacrifice than for Americans to enthusiastically exercise their freedom of speech.

While we would not all personally choose to protest in a manner identical to Kaepernick, we respect and honor his choice, and whole heartedly join him in stating unequivocally that BLACK LIVES MATTER. The current state of affairs for people of color in America is unsustainable and unacceptable. According to analysis by the Washington Post, black people in America are two and a half times more likely to be shot and killed by police than white Americans. Far too often, people of color are dying at the hands of law enforcement personnel in the streets, our jails, and their homes. Indictments are rare and convictions are essentially nonexistent.

This status quo outrages us as men and women who raised our right hands and pledged to defend, with our lives if necessary, a Constitution that proclaims intent to “establish justice, insure domestic tranquility,” and “secure the Blessings of Liberty.” Those ideals are simply not being upheld for all Americans.

As veterans, we implore all Americans to find your own way to challenge this status quo and advocate for “a more perfect union.” Your method of protest may not be to refrain from the traditions surrounding our national symbols, and it doesn’t have to be. You have the same right as Colin Kaepernick to choose whether and how to advocate, a right we support and served for. However you choose to use your voice, please do so with an understanding that many veterans do not condemn the protest of activists like Jackie Robinson, Colin Kaepernick and everyday Americans seeking justice. Indeed, we see no higher form of patriotism.

Eric Baker, United States Army Veteran

Bill Barton, United States Air Force Veteran

Robert Bateman, United States Army Veteran: Operation Enduring Freedom, Operation Iraqi Freedom

quote:I repeat, take this peaceful protest to your nearest Police Department where it might have more impact.

I'm sure a crowd of black people protesting outside of police stations across America will be met with admiration and respect by conservatives in a Trump presidency. Did you really write that with a straight face?

To everyone enraged by taking a knee, enough with the transparent b.s. already. It's sad to watch you all struggle to come up so many lame excuses to justify your rage when a black man speaks up. Never heard a peep about those who fly a flag that ain't our Stars and Stripes - but I'm sure that's so different and doesn't warrant any offense, no no no. If I heard a rationale that wasn't filled with holes or just plain childish, I'd take it more seriously. Until then, go cry me a river. If a peaceful protest bothers you, you live in the wrong country.
2112 - 10/10/2017 at 04:07 AM

quote:

quote:I repeat, take this peaceful protest to your nearest Police Department where it might have more impact.

I'm sure a crowd of black people protesting outside of police stations across America will be met with admiration and respect by conservatives in a Trump presidency. Did you really write that with a straight face?

To everyone enraged by taking a knee, enough with the transparent b.s. already. It's sad to watch you all struggle to come up so many lame excuses to justify your rage when a black man speaks up. Never heard a peep about those who fly a flag that ain't our Stars and Stripes - but I'm sure that's so different and doesn't warrant any offense, no no no. If I heard a rationale that wasn't filled with holes or just plain childish, I'd take it more seriously. Until then, go cry me a river. If a peaceful protest bothers you, you live in the wrong country.

A group of black protesters peacefully protesting in front of a police station is far more likely to cause an angry Tweet from our president than a group of white supremacist marching with nazis flags and tiki torches.
BIGV - 10/10/2017 at 05:24 AM

quote:

quote:I repeat, take this peaceful protest to your nearest Police Department where it might have more impact.

I'm sure a crowd of black people protesting outside of police stations across America will be met with admiration and respect by conservatives in a Trump presidency. Did you really write that with a straight face?

To everyone enraged by taking a knee, enough with the transparent b.s. already. It's sad to watch you all struggle to come up so many lame excuses to justify your rage when a black man speaks up. Never heard a peep about those who fly a flag that ain't our Stars and Stripes - but I'm sure that's so different and doesn't warrant any offense, no no no. If I heard a rationale that wasn't filled with holes or just plain childish, I'd take it more seriously. Until then, go cry me a river. If a peaceful protest bothers you, you live in the wrong country.

The absolute nerve of anyone to see things differently than you!
jszfunk - 10/10/2017 at 12:02 PM

This was/is a "big" topic of discussion here in Indy the last couple of days.

Kind overshadowed the other events that took place unfortunately.

David Letterman got a good laugh in!!!

Letterman started his speech making the crowd laugh, "4/12/47 I was born in Indianapolis. Lived here most of my life. Been on television 30 years, where the hell's my statue? I'm serious. If you can make one you can make two."

BoytonBrother - 10/10/2017 at 12:27 PM

quote:The absolute nerve of anyone to see things differently than you!

That's basically the attitude you take with the peaceful protestors - how dare they have a different definition of respect. We are not different in that regard. You have disdain for the peaceful protestors, and I have disdain for those who oppress. If kneeling with hands over their hearts is deemed too offensive to the point where the President urges firings in response, and half the country puts them down, there is no hope for them. No method of speaking up will ever gain the respect of some people.

Aside from protesting at police stations, which likely get them all killed or arrested, and met with sharp opposition from the entire right, what are some methods that you think would help their cause and get the same visibility?

VEEP Pence attended, gave the players a choice to do the right thing. Some choose to kneel, VEEP felt uncomfortable and left the game.

KCJimmy - 10/10/2017 at 01:40 PM

quote:Aside from protesting at police stations, which likely get them all killed or arrested...

Right, because the cops have sure killed and arrested a whole lot of peaceful protesters since Trump became president.

Let me try to explain this in simpleton terms. Our flag represents our country as pointed out previously by one of you genius posters. But wait there is more...

Found from a book about the symbolism of the American Flag published in 1977 by the House of Representatives we read:

"The star is a symbol of the heavens and the divine goal to which man has aspired from time immemorial; the stripe is symbolic of the rays of light emanating from the sun."

The Symbolism of the Flag's ColorsAlternating in red and white, the 13 stripes also represent the 13 original colonies that joined together to declare their independence from Britain in order to establish themselves as a sovereign nation.

Originally, the colors red, white and blue had neither specific meaning nor representation when the flag was adopted in 1777. However, the colors in the Great Seal of the United States did have specific meanings. Charles Thompson, Secretary of the Continental Congress, reporting to Congress on the Seal, stated:

"The colors of the pales (the vertical stripes) are those used in the flag of the United States of America; White signifies purity and innocence, Red, hardiness & valour, and Blue, the color of the Chief (the broad band above the stripes) signifies vigilance, perseverance & justice."

The modern meaning of the flag was forged in December 1860, when Major Robert Anderson moved the U.S. garrison from Fort Moultrie to Fort Sumter in Charleston Harbor. Author Adam Goodheart argues this was the opening move of the American Civil War, and the flag was used throughout northern states to symbolize American nationalism and rejection of secessionism.

Before that day, the flag had served mostly as a military ensign or a convenient marking of American territory, flown from forts, embassies, and ships, and displayed on special occasions like American Independence day. But in the weeks after Major Anderson's surprising stand, it became something different. Suddenly the Stars and Stripes flew—as it does today, and especially as it did after the September 11 attacks in 2001—from houses, from storefronts, from churches; above the village greens and college quads. For the first time American flags were mass-produced rather than individually stitched and even so, manufacturers could not keep up with demand. As the long winter of 1861 turned into spring, that old flag meant something new. The abstraction of the Union cause was transfigured into a physical thing: strips of cloth that millions of people would fight for, and many thousands die for.
– Adam Goodheart.[54]

The flag of the United States is one of the nation's most widely recognized symbols. Within the United States, flags are frequently displayed not only on public buildings but on private residences. The flag is a common motif on decals for car windows, and clothing ornaments such as badges and lapel pins. Throughout the world the flag has been used in public discourse to refer to the United States.

The flag has become a powerful symbol of Americanism, and is flown on many occasions, with giant outdoor flags used by retail outlets to draw customers. Desecration of the flag is considered a public outrage, but remains protected as freedom of speech. Scholars have noted the irony that "[t]he flag is so revered because it represents the land of the free, and that freedom includes the ability to use or abuse that flag in protest".[55] In worldwide comparison, Testi noted in 2010 that the United States was not unique in adoring its banner, for the flags of Scandinavian countries are also "beloved, domesticated, commercialized and sacralized objects"

Our flag represents a Free country. How did we get our freedom? We didn't just ask for it, we fought for it. Many died. How do we maintain our freedom? The same way. Who does the fighting that preserves our freedom, which includes the right to disrespect our flag, our country and those who have fought for those rights? It is shameful that anyone would think that this is an acceptable way to protest the police doing their jobs. Seems a lot of you folks that support this protest are the same ones that were screaming, "Hands up don't shoot". I would think you would learn not to believe everything you hear on CNN.porkchopbob - 10/10/2017 at 01:40 PM

quote:VEEP Pence attended, gave the players a choice to do the right thing. Some choose to kneel, VEEP felt uncomfortable and left the game.

VP went to the game planning to leave regardless, at Trump's insistence. A few players peacefully protested against inequality and prejudice in this country, which the flag represents, as it is their right to do so. Pence peacefully and expensively counter protested, so I guess he's for inequality and prejudice. Is there any greater symbol of inequality than a white man protesting at the public's expense and being cheered by angry white men, while black men peacefully protest and are vilified? I'd say they made their point, some just refuse to see it.

I'm sure when they hear "Oh, Canada" they think of Canada's armed forces and not maple syrup.
MartinD28 - 10/10/2017 at 02:26 PM

quote:

quote:VEEP Pence attended, gave the players a choice to do the right thing. Some choose to kneel, VEEP felt uncomfortable and left the game.

VP went to the game planning to leave regardless, at Trump's insistence. A few players peacefully protested against inequality and prejudice in this country, which the flag represents, as it is their right to do so. Pence peacefully and expensively counter protested, so I guess he's for inequality and prejudice. Is there any greater symbol of inequality than a white man protesting at the public's expense and being cheered by angry white men, while black men peacefully protest and are vilified? I'd say they made their point, some just refuse to see it.

[Edited on 10/10/2017 by porkchopbob]

Pence is no stranger to inequality actions. As governor of Indiana, didn't he promote and sign legislation of "religious freedom" i.e. discrimination? I'd have to read up on this as it's been a few years back, but he may have reversed himself later. Maybe he realized that from a business perspective, it was a loser. Just look at similar actions in North Carolina, and what it has cost that economy. But make no mistake, Pence is right up there and comfortable with inequality based upon his stance in Indiana with "religious freedom" and abuse of federal taxpayer money at the game the other day playing cultural warrior.

Only 23% of Americans agreed with MLK's march on Washington. The people who disagreed were wrong. The majority of Americans agreed with expanding the war in Vietnam. The majority of the people in America thought the kids at Kent State were in the wrong. The majority of Americans were wrong.

Protests would never work if they were comfortable. The fact that Trump is changing the meaning of these protests is frightening. The ignorant people who are missing the point of these protests are the reason America is failing. The majority of Americans have lost, or never had the ability to critically think. I'm guessing it is because the majority of Americans don't read books. Regardless, this country becomes more of an idiocracy every day.

I stand for the National Anthem at sporting events. The day they tell me I have to stand will be the day I sit down.

The Pentagon paid professionals sports hundreds of thousands of dollars of tax payer money to promote the military. Why? Why are we turning sporting events into Nationalistic rallies? What's next? Concerts? Movies? An anthem an hour at the grocery store where everyone must stop shopping and honor our Country? Our President?

I finished the Vietnam War series last night. This country, our leaders have brought plenty of dishonor to our flag and laid it upon every American citizen. Now we take part in the longest war in American history and again we have no idea why we are fighting or what victory will look like.

You folks who are more concerned about football players taking a knee than Police Officers murdering unarmed black men need to get over yourselves. America is a great country. We can be better. Burying our heads in the sand and ignoring institutional racism will not make this a better country.

BIGV - 10/10/2017 at 05:23 PM

quote:

quote:The absolute nerve of anyone to see things differently than you!

Aside from protesting at police stations, which likely get them all killed or arrested

"Likely"...LOL....."Killed".....not if it is peaceful....Don't block traffic, do not stop the police from doing their jobs.

quote: You have disdain for the peaceful protestors

Absolutely wrong. I have disdain for those who disrespect my Flag. Interpret that anyway you wish.

cyclone88 - 10/10/2017 at 05:44 PM

quote:Only 23% of Americans agreed with MLK's march on Washington. The people who disagreed were wrong. The majority of Americans agreed with expanding the war in Vietnam. The majority of the people in America thought the kids at Kent State were in the wrong. The majority of Americans were wrong.

Protests would never work if they were comfortable. The fact that Trump is changing the meaning of these protests is frightening. The ignorant people who are missing the point of these protests are the reason America is failing. The majority of Americans have lost, or never had the ability to critically think. I'm guessing it is because the majority of Americans don't read books. Regardless, this country becomes more of an idiocracy every day.

I stand for the National Anthem at sporting events. The day they tell me I have to stand will be the day I sit down.

The Pentagon paid professionals sports hundreds of thousands of dollars of tax payer money to promote the military. Why? Why are we turning sporting events into Nationalistic rallies? What's next? Concerts? Movies? An anthem an hour at the grocery store where everyone must stop shopping and honor our Country? Our President?

I finished the Vietnam War series last night. This country, our leaders have brought plenty of dishonor to our flag and laid it upon every American citizen. Now we take part in the longest war in American history and again we have no idea why we are fighting or what victory will look like.

You folks who are more concerned about football players taking a knee than Police Officers murdering unarmed black men need to get over yourselves. America is a great country. We can be better. Burying our heads in the sand and ignoring institutional racism will not make this a better country.

I was with you right up until the last sentence. The United States is not always a great country. The issues you mentioned at the top of the post are examples. Statistics can be manipulated, but I remember the issues during my college years were the war, which seemed to be opposed by my parents' generation (although not my parents) rather than my peers and opposition to anything MLK said or did (again by an older generation).

My personal "aha" came when people stood for the playing of "Dixie" before a college football game when I visited a well known southern university. I sat in shock. I'd never heard "Dixie" played in public and certainly didn't associate it with college football. The fact that my date and I were the only two who remained seated in our section seemed incredible to me.

I, too, can envision the flag/anthem playing out to what was once a dystopian idea as you described - mandatory halting in the grocery store at the sound of the anthem.

What disheartens me is that the US no longer seems to be a place where there's an exchange of ideas or willingness to compromise for the greater good on anything. Immovable hostility has become the first response on many issues and has replaced courtesy in society in general. There's no more "may I help you?" in lines or customer service. There's stony silence and a grunt or "Yeah?" if forced to speak.

Trump's greatest impact hasn't been on policy. It's his rude disrespectful belligerence that has emboldened loose thinking, speaking, and actions by the population. Hostility abounds.

[Edited on 10/10/2017 by cyclone88]
jkeller - 10/10/2017 at 05:55 PM

quote:

quote:

quote:The absolute nerve of anyone to see things differently than you!

Aside from protesting at police stations, which likely get them all killed or arrested

"Likely"...LOL....."Killed".....not if it is peaceful....Don't block traffic, do not stop the police from doing their jobs.

quote: You have disdain for the peaceful protestors

Absolutely wrong. I have disdain for those who disrespect my Flag. Interpret that anyway you wish.

“My flag”.

OK.
BoytonBrother - 10/10/2017 at 06:08 PM

quote:"Likely"...LOL....."Killed".....not if it is peaceful....Don't block traffic, do not stop the police from doing their jobs

I cannot believe how out of touch you are with reality. To reiterate your idea, you want black people to show up at police stations to protest police brutality, and you think that will be met with praise and respect by the right? HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA.

quote:Absolutely wrong. I have disdain for those who disrespect my Flag. Interpret that anyway you wish

I did already. You are an American that has disdain for peaceful protestors because you find it disrespectful like a true snowflake. Stay silent about the confederate flag waivers. "My flag", LOL.
BrerRabbit - 10/10/2017 at 06:17 PM

quote:VEEP Pence attended, gave the players a choice to do the right thing. Some choose to kneel, VEEP felt uncomfortable and left the game.

Bullsh!t. Nobody gives someone else a choice to exercise their inalienable rights. They gave themselves the choice.2112 - 10/10/2017 at 07:03 PM

quote:The modern meaning of the flag was forged in December 1860, when Major Robert Anderson moved the U.S. garrison from Fort Moultrie to Fort Sumter in Charleston Harbor. Author Adam Goodheart argues this was the opening move of the American Civil War, and the flag was used throughout northern states to symbolize American nationalism and rejection of secessionism.

Before that day, the flag had served mostly as a military ensign or a convenient marking of American territory, flown from forts, embassies, and ships, and displayed on special occasions like American Independence day. But in the weeks after Major Anderson's surprising stand, it became something different.

Funny how most of the people who appear most upset about this protest are also the same people who got upset about Confederate flags and Confederate statues being removed. If you love the US flag and it means that much to you, then you should be against the Confederate flag and everything it stands for...the ultimate betrayal of the USA flag and those that fought for American freedom. But that appears to not be the case. Why do you think that's the case? Do you think those white supremacists wearing nazis symbols and carrying tiki torches are also upset about this "disrespect" to the US flag and support Trump's outrage overy this protest?
2112 - 10/10/2017 at 07:16 PM

quote:
Thank you VP Pence for taking a stand with all the NFL fans who think this misguided protest disrespects America and those who served. This protest has carried on way too long and is alienating lots of fans.

So you think this was taxpayer money well spent then?
BIGV - 10/10/2017 at 11:29 PM

quote:

quote:"Likely"...LOL....."Killed".....not if it is peaceful....Don't block traffic, do not stop the police from doing their jobs

I cannot believe how out of touch you are with reality. To reiterate your idea, you want black people to show up at police stations to protest police brutality, and you think that will be met with praise and respect by the right? HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA.

quote:Absolutely wrong. I have disdain for those who disrespect my Flag. Interpret that anyway you wish

I did already. You are an American that has disdain for peaceful protestors because you find it disrespectful like a true snowflake. Stay silent about the confederate flag waivers. "My flag", LOL.

"My Flag" correct. I have the Flag that was draped over my Father's casket after he passed. That gentleman was a Lt. Colonel in the USAF and served proudly in Korea as a member of SAC. Laugh at that.

Which Confederate Flag? As a student of the Civil War, I hold a different view than most. Example? I could walk down the street with the "Stars & Bars" on a shirt and most if not all would not even take notice. Pure ignorance of history. Am I aware that some are offended by my love of Civil War battlefield strategy... Does that make me a racist? I think not. But for the sake of discussion, if you are willing to refer to all lovers of History (Civil War) as "racists" is it not a fair assumption to consider that there are people offended by what they see as disrespect towards the Stars & Stripes by refusing to stand?

2112 - 10/11/2017 at 12:11 AM

quote:

quote:

quote:"Likely"...LOL....."Killed".....not if it is peaceful....Don't block traffic, do not stop the police from doing their jobs

I cannot believe how out of touch you are with reality. To reiterate your idea, you want black people to show up at police stations to protest police brutality, and you think that will be met with praise and respect by the right? HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA.

quote:Absolutely wrong. I have disdain for those who disrespect my Flag. Interpret that anyway you wish

I did already. You are an American that has disdain for peaceful protestors because you find it disrespectful like a true snowflake. Stay silent about the confederate flag waivers. "My flag", LOL.

"My Flag" correct. I have the Flag that was draped over my Father's casket after he passed. That gentleman was a Lt. Colonel in the USAF and served proudly in Korea as a member of SAC. Laugh at that.

Which Confederate Flag? As a student of the Civil War, I hold a different view than most. Example? I could walk down the street with the "Stars & Bars" on a shirt and most if not all would not even take notice. Pure ignorance of history. Am I aware that some are offended by my love of Civil War battlefield strategy... Does that make me a racist? I think not. But for the sake of discussion, if you are willing to refer to all lovers of History (Civil War) as "racists" is it not a fair assumption to consider that there are people offended by what they see as disrespect towards the Stars & Stripes by refusing to stand?

I said nothing about the Confederate flag standing for racism. But if you support the Confederacy then you don't support the UNITED States of America. You can't support both - a war was fought over this. If you support the Confederacy and it's goal to not be part of the USA, then you supported the bloodshed of US soldiers that were dying for that flag. Pick a flag to support, but if you take pride in ANY Confederate flag (pick one, doesn't matter which one), then you have no right to call out anyone for not standing for the anthem based on soldiers fighting for a flag.
porkchopbob - 10/11/2017 at 01:28 AM

quote:Absolutely wrong. I have disdain for those who disrespect my Flag. Interpret that anyway you wish

I guess the Houston Astros must really be on your sh1t list

LeglizHemp - 10/11/2017 at 01:46 AM

False outrage seems to be more prevalent than fake news.

BoytonBrother - 10/11/2017 at 02:53 PM

quote:"My Flag" correct. I have the Flag that was draped over my Father's casket after he passed. That gentleman was a Lt. Colonel in the USAF and served proudly in Korea as a member of SAC. Laugh at that.

I would never laugh at that. But I can't help laughing at someone who refers to it as "my flag", when it belongs to all of us. It's pompous to say the least. If anyone is disrespecting the flag, it's you who has disdain for people exercising the freedom that it stands for, all because of taking a knee, which we do during proposals to signify respect, at church to pay respect, and at graves to pay respect.
BoytonBrother - 10/11/2017 at 03:41 PM

its amazing that some would rather criticize taking a knee, than criticize the President for trying to take away that right or punish them for exercising it. All Americans should be against that more than they are against taking a knee. This isn't some foreign dictatorship or monarchy. We don't bow or stand unless we choose to do so. If you don't agree with that, then you are living in the wrong country.

I hope the players continue to kneel, get benched or fired, and then sue the pants off both the NFL and the President. If the NFL suffers, they have no one to blame but themselves.

BillyBlastoff - 10/11/2017 at 04:51 PM

I too hope the players are brave enough to buck the NFL this week.

Like I said earlier, the day I'm told I have to stand for the anthem is the day I sit down.

jkeller - 10/11/2017 at 05:57 PM

quote:

quote:"My Flag" correct. I have the Flag that was draped over my Father's casket after he passed. That gentleman was a Lt. Colonel in the USAF and served proudly in Korea as a member of SAC. Laugh at that.

I would never laugh at that. But I can't help laughing at someone who refers to it as "my flag", when it belongs to all of us. It's pompous to say the least. If anyone is disrespecting the flag, it's you who has disdain for people exercising the freedom that it stands for, all because of taking a knee, which we do during proposals to signify respect, at church to pay respect, and at graves to pay respect.

My father fought in World War II. When he was buried, my family was presented with the flag that draped his coffin. I would never consider that to be “my flag” because I didn’ t earn it, my father did. To call it my flag would have been taking credit for what a better man did.
IPowrie - 10/11/2017 at 08:55 PM

quote:VEEP Pence attended, gave the players a choice to do the right thing. Some choose to kneel, VEEP felt uncomfortable and left the game.

Sounds like he needs to find a safe space where everyone agrees with him. What a snowflake
KCJimmy - 10/11/2017 at 10:02 PM

quote:Sounds like he needs to find a safe space where everyone agrees with him. What a snowflake

Pot......Kettle (no, that is not a racist phrase)
IPowrie - 10/12/2017 at 07:50 PM

quote:

quote:Sounds like he needs to find a safe space where everyone agrees with him. What a snowflake

Pot......Kettle (no, that is not a racist phrase)

I'm no snowflake. Though I do have a safe space
jkeller - 10/12/2017 at 07:51 PM

quote:

quote:

quote:Sounds like he needs to find a safe space where everyone agrees with him. What a snowflake

Pot......Kettle (no, that is not a racist phrase)

I'm no snowflake. Though I do have a safe space

One post in here and KC knows all about you. Jerry - 10/20/2017 at 12:20 PM

Outside of the fact that is a stupid "what if" comparison, where was your outage at tim tebow taking a knee during the anthem when he played???

When did Tebow take a knee during the anthem?
BIGV - 10/20/2017 at 06:21 PM

quote: My Flag" correct.

My father fought in World War II. When he was buried, my family was presented with the flag that draped his coffin. I would never consider that to be “my flag” because I didn’ t earn it, my father did. To call it my flag would have been taking credit for what a better man did.

"My Flag" as in the Flag I respect at all costs and in all circumstances.
BoytonBrother - 10/23/2017 at 07:42 PM

quote:"My Flag" as in the Flag I respect at all costs and in all circumstances.

LOL, please! You respect it all costs....by hating one of its major political parties, and by supporting Americans who fly other flags instead of ours. How do you write this stuff with a straight face?
BIGV - 10/23/2017 at 11:30 PM

quote:

quote:"My Flag" as in the Flag I respect at all costs and in all circumstances.

LOL, please! You respect it all costs....by hating one of its major political parties, and by supporting Americans who fly other flags instead of ours. How do you write this stuff with a straight face?

Lol, I offer zero apologies for my dissenting views; I will sleep just fine.
jkeller - 10/24/2017 at 02:01 AM

quote:

quote:

quote:"My Flag" as in the Flag I respect at all costs and in all circumstances.

LOL, please! You respect it all costs....by hating one of its major political parties, and by supporting Americans who fly other flags instead of ours. How do you write this stuff with a straight face?

Lol, I offer zero apologies for my dissenting views; I will sleep just fine.

BigV loves the flag but hates the freedoms that are represented by it. A true Trumpanzee. BoytonBrother - 10/24/2017 at 05:45 PM

quote:Lol, I offer zero apologies for my dissenting views; I will sleep just fine.

Neither does Kaepernick, and so will he.

Hoping you can answer a question: Why is taking a knee disrespectful, but choosing to wear and display a confederate flag not considered disrespectful?