I, for one, am "mad" (not really mad, more irritated) at you because you are repetitive, a poor writer, and generally annoying. You make unsubstantiated claims that are not in any way helpful. Everyone understands that you have many problems with the 700p. You've made that exceedingly clear. Stop already.

don't know about how many of you guys were around from the beginning of the 650 it was the worst constant resets this board was full of complaints one guy was looking for a class action law suit then came the palm update and it changed the 650 to a class device became very reliable less resets and life was beautiful again. now calm down and relax palm will have an update just relax and enjoy what you have until palm fixes it.
Fred

I, for one, am "mad" (not really mad, more irritated) at you because you are repetitive, a poor writer, and generally annoying. You make unsubstantiated claims that are not in any way helpful. Everyone understands that you have many problems with the 700p. You've made that exceedingly clear. Stop already.

Ditto. This sums up my complaints about him. I'm all for complaining about the 700p and I sometimes complain when I sense a Pollyanna attitude here. But I also dislike it when someone does nothing but complain over and over about the same thing and (this is the important part) takes focused threads off-track by restating those same *off-topic* complaints there.

It could be that you got a good one - nothing to gloat about (unless you need that).

I had one that started out seemingly fine, and over a 4-day period slowly decended into more and more inconsistent resets and crashes (I suspect bad memory and/or circuit board issues). Eventually it was such an obvious hardware issue I could finally replicate the "dead hangs" after a hard reset in front of a Sprint employee. Until then, I kept getting the "it's a third-party app" parroting every time I reported it.

Stock is low, and they don't carry the T650 much anymore - so you could be stuck without a phone for a week or two until they locate a warranty replacement - not an ideal situation, especially with a $672.00 phone. Luckily I found a store with T650's to sell as a temporary bridge.

So... there are hardware issues with some units - don't kid yourself. If yours works - then consider yourself very lucky. Others got bad units, and the trail to replacing them is not very pleasant.

Treo 755s in good condition available on ebay for $50-$75. No need to pay for insurance or buy a Pre.

Personally, I much prefer PalmOS to Windows Mobile but if you look past the rhetoric I believe cccablecompany and others have a point. If the Palm Treo continues to be the only PalmOS smartphone you can buy and Palm (and Access) continues to ship buggy products with little innovation or support for new and more modern features then it doesn't matter how much more intuitive or easier to use PalmOS is than WM5. At some point people will get fed up with hoping that the Palm Treo will catch up with the features of Windows Mobile devices and just switch because they need to get work done.

I keep hearing about unnamed modern "features" without ever hearing what people actually want to do with them". WiFi is a great modern feature but one I really can't do much with....rarely ever in aplace with WiFi. EVDO / HSDPA is a great feature but one I can't really do much with, Despite being in the nation's 23 largest area poulation wise, we still ain't got it.

I hear a lot about Windows "alleged" multitasking but I seem to hear more about problems single tasking in WM. And frankly, on a 2" screen, I ain't capable of multitasking so my device having that capability is the proverbial teats on a bull in most respects. Other than being able to say look an e-mail address or web address while not losing a phone call, I am lost on the value of the whole mulitasking thing. Now I just hang up, look up the info on a site and e-mail the info which I can do a hell of a lot faster anyway.

However, I'm starting to think that I trust Microsoft more than Palm (and Access) to improve the OS and to add the features and interoperability that I want both today and especially tomorrow. At this point I accept the terrible bluetooth support, no voice dialing, no wifi, awful battery life, no multitasking and the many other problems of the 700p but if that list gets much longer I will have to switch just to be able to get work done despite my preference for the PalmOS.

I don't think I have ever heard even their biggest fans say they trust MS. After all this is a company that is now charging you $50 a year to protect you from the holes in the OS.....and if it doesn't sell well, can we not expect them to just leave more holes to spur those sales ?

Where's all the promises of Vista.....it's down to 3D Windows and cumbersome security models....where's the file system we were promised. Why won't it run usably on 90+% of today's computers. MS's truth in advertising slogan should be "Anything you can do with your current OS, we can do better* with our new one" (* Note : Better means slower).

We were told to run out and buy Win98 cause it patched 3,000 security vulnerabilities in Win95....the part they didn't mention was that it introduced 27,000 more. Same was true for Win2k and WinXP only the numbers were bigger.

At this point PalmOS is easier to use and simpler than WM but is in every way technically inferior so why would you not expect it to lose eventually? About the best thing we can hope for is that Palm very quickly transitions to a Linux-based OS that runs PalmOS programs and be on a par with WM technically. But even in this case survival of the Palm Treo is not guaranteed. Remember, back in the day OS/2 was technically far superior to and more stable than Windows on the PC. Betamax was superior to VHS. The superior product doesn't always win. WM devices have such a huge lead at this point it may be impossible to catch them.

The NY Mets, Detroit, and both sets of Sox are in almost every way "technically inferior" to the Yankees .... on apaper.......but they are all putin a lotta W's in the win column. If I take my Treo out to perform certain tasks and it's back in my pocket in 1:27 whereas the w user is done on 1:45, ya can call it it superior in any way you want, but I'm done. I don't care if you are multitasking, I am done. I don't care if you have pretty skins, I am done.

As for superior products the reason superior products fail are many. With BetMax, Sony didn't count on just how dumb the consumer is.....given the choice of one product for $179 and a superior product for $194, Aunt Tille walked outta the store smiling about the $15 she saved.

The OS wars were lost on arrogance on both sides. IBM was arrogant enough to think that hardware controlled the software.....never expected a bunch of people would start companies in their garages....once they did, they never thot people would buy them.....they also thot the governement would step in and stop any monopolistic practices as they did to IBM some years before.

How MS got away with what they did I can not understand. With a pricing structure as follows:

MS DOS and Windows $29.95
MS Windows $44.95

why this wasn't deemed illegal is still beyond me.

If palm concludes its deal with VoiceSignal , adding Vmode and VSpeech in time for Lennon's US release, it will be the watershed device that the 600 and 650 were. The POS does voice dialing very nicely BTW via VoiceDial. While WM does have many things built in, it still has some shortcomings.....for a long time one couldn't remote wipe the device if ya weren't on exchange server....I read about a beta program doing that some months back but missed seeing a release notice.

The biggest complaint I have had about Windows products is that they are intentionally made more cumbersome to use than is necessary. The emphasis is on "fluff"...what will look cool and make something get off the shelf.....MS has never much cared about the consumer "post sale". My 1996 Toshiba laptop when I saw it in the store had people standinga round it marveling about the MM screensave "I can see clearly now..." was playing and the video switched from various graphics effects....."Oooh wow" was the comment most heard....But that 1.0 Gig HD had 50 MB taken up w/ that screensaver so I gotta believe that most people uninstalled it within months after bringing that home. What MS has long understood is that's the thing that sells.....too many people concerned about how something looks and how it will look to their friends than what impact it will actually have on productivity. Try and improve on that productivity and ya get nailed because as booting the OS still loads parts of MS programs you may have decided not to use.

We always to bench testing before endorsing a product......when Win95 came out, we bought identical laptops one with Win95 and one with W4WGs. How was Win95 marketed...."faster" was the word most bandied about but it was about as far from the truth as WMD's ....even if they were their still kinda confused on how Saddam's 106 mile range rockets were somehow gonna reach US soil.....

In our benchmarks, Win95 lost every benchmark test by a significant margin. Winstone w/ Win95 for example was 45.....w/ W4WGs it was 63. MS's new "faster" OS was over 40% slower. That same month PC Magazine did it's 100 PC December roundup.....Dell, Gateway and Micron both submitted multiple, nearly identical machines, one with each OS.....In PC mag's tests, the Win95 machines trailed their W4WGs counterparts by an average of 37%.

Yet much of corporate america bought the advertising and spend between $2500 and $4500 per box to upgrade (including necessary hardware, dowentime and retraining costs). They never did get their ROI on that so called "upgrade" and, having learned the lesson, Joe Corporate now has no problem keeping Win98 and Win2k on corporate desktops....so much so that to keep stockholders happy, MS reports a Win2k sale as a "WinXP sale w/ a free Win2k downgrade".

On today's playing field Palm is taking home the trophy.....it WILL have to stay competitive but I personally don't see any feature that I want out there right now. WiFi woud be nice but only if I didn't add anything to the cost....for the frequency that I would use it, I'd waste more time trying to remember how to log on each time than any time or cost savings I'd get out of it. I don't quite understand MM on a device like this other than for "ooh look"....if I wanna entertain myself, I need something bigger (no sexist jokes plz ) but the kids are big into this and the kids pull a significant market....the kids however don't buy $700 phones.

The outfit that stuffs VoiceMode (speech2text) / Vspeech (text2speech) funcionality into a smartphone first is gonna steal the business show.....the kids show, is always tough to predict cause their favoirites flip like the weather.

If Palm ignores either market, not that they ever had the kids one, they won't do well there. But their success has been in giving businesses and the carriers what they want. MS usually takes 3 or 4 tries to get something right and I expect that by WM6 or 7 they will get most of the unnerving stuff out. But it seems they more focused on origami, tablet's and Vista right now where they can get their more customary and much higher unit pricing that they like. If palm lets MS get to 6 or 7 without getting a hot linux based solution out, their days could be numbered. But that's not something we wills ee answered until at best this time next year.

Put yourself in the shoes of a developer. Would you write for an OS whose future is shrouded in uncertainty or would you write for an OS whose market share is growing faster and has the biggest software company in the world backing it. That is the biggest problem facing palm. We are already seeing it with products like slingbox and I believe that if Palm doesn't make more concrete statements about future OS's then you will see moer and more good developers write exclusively for Symbian / WM.

I agree with most of what you have said, but I think Palm's current position is more tenuous than it seems.

I'm not a WM5 fan (or Windows fan at all) but there are a few legitimate uses for multitasking. The best I see on a handheld is leaving a webpage open, switching to an app or phone call and then coming back to the same page with it reloading the page.

I'm been trying a Nokia E61 and I have to say it's very nice compared to the Treo. I don't really see any reason to have a Treo 650 over the E61. The 700p has the big advantage of EVDO in the U.S. The E61 has UTMS in Europe but unfortunately the U.S. UTMS band is different. But I think the competitors are really closing in.

There are stability problems even with no third party stuff. If I add any extra dialing digits in favorites (for voicmail for example) then the 700p resets every time it connects to the bluetooth in my car (keeps resetting as long as I'm in the car until I remove the extra digits). That was a bear to figure out, most consumers would just return the phone. Yesterday I was in Blazer and switched to the phone, bam soft reset.

I'm sorry to say that the Nokia multitasks great and has no stability problems I've seen. Palm has a usability advantage, but others are catching up in form factors and ease of use.

I'm not a WM5 fan (or Windows fan at all) but there are a few legitimate uses for multitasking. The best I see on a handheld is leaving a webpage open, switching to an app or phone call and then coming back to the same page with it reloading the page.

Unless I am misunderstanding you, my 700p does this, albeit manually. If I'm on a web page and I get a call, I'm switched automatically to the Phone app. After the call is over, I press the side button (assigned to Web), and it automatically reloads the last page I was looking at. This is a setting within Blazer. I can then keep reading, or refresh the page to see if anything has changed.

I don't think I agree with that. I think venting about problems is legitimate for a discussion board. And this topic is about the 700p's issues after all so it's not like what he's saying is off-topic. His account shouldn't be suspended just because people don't agree with what he says (or even because his grammar is atrocious.)

If you're going to suspend his account for that then you should suspend mine too because I have done just as much complaining (or more) about the 700p's problems as he has.

I don't think I agree with that. I think venting about problems is legitimate for a discussion board. And this topic is about the 700p's issues after all so it's not like what he's saying is off-topic. His account shouldn't be suspended just because people don't agree with what he says (or even because his grammar is atrocious.)

If you're going to suspend his account for that then you should suspend mine too because I have done just as much complaining (or more) about the 700p's problems as he has.

I think complaining is fine. As you said, many people are complaining and none of them are suspended. He just does it badly and annoyingly, in a childish way. Maybe when he comes back he will act his age.