I thought it would be interesting to compile a list of hard (V14 and up) boulder problems that have not been repeated in North America. Thanks to everyone for help in compiling these problems (Most of these grades are pure speculation from outside observers):

Also on the math front, DG’s “Story of two worlds” adds a V14 sit start to an existing V14 to get a grade of V15. Says DG:
“I think this is the hardest bloc (boulder) yet, and I think it can change the malprogression we can see when we are seeing millions of 8b+ and 8c blocs climbed everywhere. Now it’s just about comparison.”

Freaks has been downgraded to 8B, Paul even suggested 8A+. Didn’t Litz get the second ascent of Esperanza? And what of Suspension of Disbelief in Eldo getting the upgrade by Woods? On a mathematcial tangent, if Story is 8B/+ into 8B+ for a total of 8C, how can Tonino ’78s 7C+ into 8B+ equal 8C+? And Terremer is 8A/+ into 8B+ for 8C? Crazy…

FK – Freaks had slipped my mind on the downgrade front. JE said that if Freaks is 8A+ he is quitting climbing…

As for Suspension I’m not sure about its place on the list with the conflicting opinions. I’ll put it on instead of Freaks and we’ll see what happens when the weather gets better for P-rob to finally get the send

As for the math. Clearly when linking together problems there is no set forumla for how to determine the final grade but for someone able to climb V14, adding a V10 start shouldn’t increase the difficulty all that much.

not 100% enough to add to list for sure, but worthy of noting, Matt Birch (im not sure if he is still in Bishop, probably is) has been in Bishop recently, and I saw him working mandalion in bad conditions with taped fingers, coming extremely close, id bet he has done it, along with goldfish. also you may have forgotten Somewhere in Time (v14) in Tramway, CA. Birch had the FA, and Woods repeated.

James Litz’s Morphine is one of the sickest problems I’ve seen. Been to Hueco many times…seen many of the 14’s there…watched Litz on Esperanza….The holds on morphine make some of the holds on esperanza look like jugs. razors on a roof…crazy….

yep the book is absolutely amazing! and i am very close, hopefully i will get back out there sometime in the near future. also boz’s line is not in the gunks, it is at the horse den. i have been there one time and the day i was there it was soaking wet. i tried it little bit and got close even though it was wet. imo i would prolly think soft 8b, but yet again i did not do it so my thoughts dont really count until i go out and do it. i know that the line will appear in dosage volume 5 in the northeast dose though!

Thanks for the info zorro and paul. I sort of figured that nuclear war might be a bit overhyped but until someone repeats it I guess I’ll just go with the initial report. Should be cool to see it in Dosage, I didn’t know it had been filmed.

boz never really graded nuclear war V14.. he just did the FA and when people asked him, he said “yeah maybe V12, V13, V14?? i dont know.” either way its pretty hard and ive been on it, feels harder then a lot of V13s that Ive tried. then again i didnt do it, so i dont know

Gabor – I agree but it sort of illustrates the difference between routes and boulders. There is a long list of repeated hard boulders and very few that have stood unrepeated for a long time.

The litz problems are probably unrepeated as much for their obscure locations than anything else but it would be cool for others to give them a go. There is also Genetics at HP40 that hasn’t been repeated as well.

The current state of rating hard bouldering/climbing is like the 100m sprint without any direct comparison, face to face competition and before the invention of even a timer…

A couple of strong athletes do their thing in some remote areas, come back and report: “It really felt like 9.6 secs yesterday, the track was fast, I was feeling strong, the wind was making this typical 9.6 sound…”

yeah boz has actually tried both morphine and chinese arithmetic and he says that morphine didnt feel too crazy, probably a normal 8b+. also ive heard that its not such a great line. boz also said that chinese arithmetic felt really hard, way harder then morphine. perhaps 8c?

Brian, if you want to get in touch with pi get a hold of nic o. from nicros. if i remember right he may still be up in the twin cities. very strong on crimps so morphine may fit him well from what i saw of the line.

he climbed down in madison for a while with mike and todd and always blew us away. very very strong fingers.

hi gabor, a list of old V12s and up that are unrepeated would be cool. that would be analogous to how that list on 8a.nu focused on older routes. i think such a list would be harder to put together. unfortunately, i know that i could not form such a list. my knowledge of hard sport and hard bouldering is very nascent.

yeah, well i know there are probably a couple in north carolina probably down south.. theres one crack boulder somewhere in the south that litz put up and rated V12 that i dont think has been repeated. also in hp40, both genetic V11 and great dane V10 i think are both unrepeated. im sure there are a lot more.

and also for the original list, the boulder that chris does in dosage 3 is also 8B+ ive heard. its the one where he does the jump into the vertical crack. i think its called the full package or something.

Yeah, I hadn’t really thought of that problem. It sure looked really hard but it was overshadowed in the movie by Witness and King Lion. Maybe with the crew of Landman, Graham and Cardwell down there right now we might hear some more about it.

sorry i didnt get in on this earlier, Morphine was repeated in a day by Pi from Minnesota and he suggested V12. Litz has never graded Warpath, only others have made suggestions. Chinese Arithmetic is very hard, maybe hard V13 maybe V14, and interestingly enough I was told from a very reputable source that Litz thought Tilta-whirl direct (his other problem at the Obed) was harder. Book of Bitter Aspects is unrepeated, but it’s not as hard as Jade, it could be a hard V13. There are several V13s in Pennsylvania of which there should be some skeptiscism.

Thanks for the info Jamie. I climbed with Pi a bit during my time in Madison, crazy strong fingers as Steve pointed out. Chill dude as well. He is in a few Nicros ads that I remember seeing in the magazines lately.

From the 4 years I climbed in PA there are definably some legit hard problems (V10+). Adam Markert and Char Fetterolf who were Haycock, PA locals could pull down hard. The hardest problem that I had heard of was a project called Big Monday that was supposed to be V13. I don’t think it was ever sent and these days Adam is living in Colorado.

I might be skeptical about the V13 at Hunter rocks since sandstone was not high quality but the rock tended to be steep and pocketed so it is possible.

Big Wednesday still hasn’t been climbed. I hear the v13 at hunters is soft, but high end twelve if not soft 13. There’s a direct line on that boulder which is supposed to be 13. There’s a 13 now at mt. Gretna. The keyhole project went. Both of the aforementioned 13’s were out up by Tim rose. He’s pretty strong.

if this is the same pi, he’s this crazy strong guy who “climbs” up in the cities. really he lurks around the back of gyms…he’s kinda that guy who everyone knows is really strong but never puts his shoes on. the few times i’ve seen him actually climb i’ve been impressed. very impressed.

Little Cottonwood Canyon has a couple of unrepeated problems in that range:1) Cheech, rated V13 – done nearly 10 years ago by Garth Miller, right next to Bully, unrepeated2) Mantra, rated V13 – right exit to Copperhead, Garth Miller again

so yeah the never ending grade debates….
interestingly enough, several of the FA’ers of these problems(Bos, Litz, etc.) never graded these problems..they have simply been interpolated from observers..
there are several unrepeated sharma problems in NE that have been “estimated” at V13+

Just a thought. Many times linked problems can be harder than the sum of their parts for a reason both obvious and not so. Imagine, that you link two v10s for a v15. Crazy right? But the thing that most people don’t think about is the linking move(s) themselves. What if you link a v12 into a v14, but the 1,2,3 whatever moves actually connecting the two are v16? Just some food for thought.

If anybody is still interested Pi’s full name is Phaydara Vongsavanthong. He does the marketing/advertising stuff for Nicros. Really fun guy to climb with. He doesnt talk alot about any of his ascents which makes it hard to get a gauge for how strong he really is. If you see him climb though, it leaves no doubt as to how incredibly strong he is.

just to ask everyones opinion…
1) the swarm and the mandala sit starts were originally graded v13. what happened?
2) seems like all who do ode to the modern man say (face to face) it’s v13.
3) we are experiencing grade compression over the last year or so, yes? i’m not bothered to say why, but it is happening.
4) bernd z did do coeur.. he took 2 trips and a torn tendon. some have done it in about 30 min, some have said v12… ? kneebars!
5) more and faster repeats don’t hafta mean soft. consensus takes time. it don’t matter, it’s about the individual and their feeling. the same problems that made dave G famous in his early days in the park have all been downgraded, not because he was wrong, but things are being compressed. John Sherman once said he thought crown of aragorn would be v11, that he didn’t think the grades should be sliced so thin.. another problem, like slashface, that people do by the truckload and “take” the grade, but slag it off amongst friends… honesty to self is all that matters. If a v11 feels v12 to you, maybe it is, or maybe it exploits your weaknesses. maybe you should go surfing.
I liked the comment about the track runners.

I should point you to Christophe Maschelein’s 8a. It seems that a couple years ago he did The Fly and got the 2nd ascents of Chinese Arithmetic and Morphine. Interesting comment/rating of Morphine vs. Fly.

Has anyone tried to repeated Full Package in Arkansas? I know Graham, Landman, and Robinson have all been there and i’m sure there have been other strong climbers. Seems like one of them would have tried to repeat it.

The 13 at Hunter’s (PA) is on private land. it’s only been done by Zach Learner. and Josh Newman. Josh recently did a 13 and said that they new one he climbed is his first “real” thirteen.

Big Monday’s a project as far as i know. some other seriously hard PA problems/projects are unfortunately subject shady access… but then again there’s a slew of HARD 10/11’s all over the south east/central PA region with only a handful of repeats.

Has anyone repeated Tactile Style in Hueco? I think Chris put it up in 2006? and I haven’t heard of a repeat. As far as Nuclear War is concerned, I was there for the development of that area and for Boz’s first ascent of the problem. It is a very difficult one to grade because the difficulty centers mostly around one hard move where you jump back into an undercling. That one move was tried by many people who climb V13 elsewhere and no one could do it except Boz…who seemingly did it quite easily. A question of style maybe? The problem is also long-ish, and ends with a V9/10, so endurance after the crux also comes into play. Complex to grade for sure…but unfortunately choss 🙂

In other news, there is a problem in the Gunks that Paul put up called Further into the Forbidden Forest, and although I’m not sure how hard he suggested it was, I think it is also unrepeated.

Who are you referencing? I can tell you, in my brief re-check of that list, I know every one of those people exist. I know personally quite a few of them exist, and have seen these people or have second hand knowledge about them and their climbs.