You know how Fred tries to sell the idea that the Cavs are an elite team and he wanted to Cav faithful to think that Ben was regenerated in Cleveland.

In yesterdays game, Ben reverted closer to his seasons average of 5.3 ppg with 7 pts and 11 boards. Since Labron James is on my fantasy team, I hope Ben doesn't shave off 4 or 5 of King Jamess rebounds and prevent his from feeding me those triple doubles

Click to expand...

Ben had the worst plus minus for Cleveland last night at -14, no other player for cleveland was worse then -4 another of there new world savers... Ben when he's on he's a game changer but those games sadly (well now i guess its not so sad for us) are farther and farther between. Either his last year or year before that he had to have his wife inspire him... he was finding it harder and harder to bring it every night and he's still being played to many mins a game, If teams were smart and played him a solid 20-25 mins a game tops he might be able to have the energy to be the game changer of 2001-2004.

So the Suns are now 2-4 with Shaq in the lineup, after a terrible loss at home to the Sixers last night. Not exactly the equivalent of losing to the Lakers or the Pistons.

I still don't think the Suns are going to miss the playoffs, as per some of the more panicky commentary. But it does seem clear that their chances of making it out of the first round are looking very grim. After that, welcome to TWO more seasons of Shaq at $20 million per year!

So the Suns are now 2-4 with Shaq in the lineup, after a terrible loss at home to the Sixers last night. Not exactly the equivalent of losing to the Lakers or the Pistons.

I still don't think the Suns are going to miss the playoffs, as per some of the more panicky commentary. But it does seem clear that their chances of making it out of the first round are looking very grim. After that, welcome to TWO more seasons of Shaq at $20 million per year!

Click to expand...

Steve Kerr ought to be fired, after what, one year at his job he has perhaps the biggest bonehead move ever!

True, but I don't think their current slump is likely to last for the rest of the season. But I am in agreement with anyone who says that they didn't help themselves by making the deal, which I think is in line with how most of us here reacted to the trade.

They really really underestimated Marion's defensive impact on that team. They keep getting lit up for 30+ by a player every game, and overall their defense is predicated often on switching which is useless now that they don't have Marion.

I don't get the Suns. They were a keeping Kurt Thomas, getting 3 point shooters away from another contender year, and they instead do ??

On Dlev's point about Kerr, the reporting indicated that D'Antoni was definitely in favor of getting Shaq when Kerr first told him it might be possible, so I think the whole organization is on the hook for the deal, not just any one particular person among them.

Like I said when the deal went down, I guess I can understand moving Marion, if he was indeed unhappy playing there and set to walk for nothing after this season when his deal expires. Similarly, even those of us who think Joe and Bill D were justified in not re-signing Ben for what he wanted would surely have preferred a trade to get at least something in return. But trading Marion for Shaq, with his terrible contract, just wasn't the right way for Phoenix to deal with their situation.

Wait a minute, did I just make a direct comparison between Shaq and Nazr?!

Well i heard McCosky's frustrated radio piece on the DFAN today and he said the Pistons were the 3rd best team in the east based on they have been playing lately??? I felt his pain as he expressed the same concerns that I read in this forum everyday.

He must be lurking here ...One lost the Celtics and we drop back to 3rd?? The Pistons have won 14 of 18 and he says they are not playing well???

The Cavs lost to the Bulls tonight by 11, but at one point in the opening minutes of the 4th they were down by 20. Labron had 39 points at the midpoint of the 3rd, but only 3 assists as no one he passed to could convert a bucket until the game was already decided in the late 3rd period. Since one game makes a difference in McCosky's world, I have to assume that based on the Cavs loss to the Bulls tonight, we have moved back to the second best team in the East....... then again, have we beaten the Bulls ourselves this season??

Well i heard McCosky's frustrated radio piece on the DFAN today and he said the Pistons were the 3rd best team in the east based on they have been playing lately??? I felt his pain as he expressed the same concerns that I read in this forum everyday.

He must be lurking here ...One lost the Celtics and we drop back to 3rd?? The Pistons have won 14 of 18 and he says they are not playing well???

The Cavs lost to the Bulls tonight by 11, but at one point in the opening minutes of the 4th they were down by 20. Labron had 39 points at the midpoint of the 3rd, but only 3 assists as no one he passed to could convert a bucket until the game was already decided in the late 3rd period. Since one game makes a difference in McCosky's world, I have to assume that based on the Cavs loss to the Bulls tonight, we have moved back to the second best team in the East....... then again, have we beaten the Bulls ourselves this season??

Click to expand...

Could you elaborate a little on what he said? I didn't hear it, but it's suprising if it's some of the same concerns as forum memebers, because 99.9 % of his articles are either chastizing fans for wanting a defensive player to play more, or Flip apologist.

If he thinks differently, then he needs to start reporting differently.

Could you elaborate a little on what he said? I didn't hear it, but it's suprising if it's some of the same concerns as forum memebers, because 99.9 % of his articles are either chastizing fans for wanting a defensive player to play more, or Flip apologist.

If he thinks differently, then he needs to start reporting differently.

Click to expand...

Ok let me remember

"The Pistons aren't playing as well the Celtics or Cavs and the third best team in the east"

"The players were complacent, they to many jumpshots and don't play as a team when they should...they let the refs affect their game"

"He feels like they will be knocked out in the EC finals or second round if they don't play smart and continue"

The end of the Jazz-Suns game in Phoenix last night was really exciting. Both teams traded big-time buckets for a long stretch until the Jazz pulled ahead to win 126-118. Obviously no one was playing anything resembling lockdown D, but Phoenix missed a few key shots and couldn't get any stops at all.

So Phoenix is now 3-6 with Shaq in the lineup. In those 9 games, aside from an 85-77 win over Boston and a 97-92 win in Portland, the Suns have given up at least 113(!!) points every single time out. Maybe he's turned into The Big Matador?

"The Pistons aren't playing as well the Celtics or Cavs and the third best team in the east"

"The players were complacent, they to many jumpshots and don't play as a team when they should...they let the refs affect their game"

"He feels like they will be knocked out in the EC finals or second round if they don't play smart and continue"

Click to expand...

I hate the way everybody falls back on the team is "complacent" excuse. Yes they are at times, but in the BOS game they tried really hard. It's the coach's job to a/make them stop taking jumpshots, b/get them to play as a team c/get on the refs so the players don't.

McCosky still sucks.

Also, did anyone see the DEN/SAS game? Pop benched the big three w/ 5 min to go down 15, and they all looked like little boys that just got punished. Their faces were hilarious.

I hate the way everybody falls back on the team is "complacent" excuse. Yes they are at times, but in the BOS game they tried really hard. It's the coach's job to a/make them stop taking jumpshots, b/get them to play as a team c/get on the refs so the players don't.

McCosky still sucks.

Also, did anyone see the DEN/SAS game? Pop benched the big three w/ 5 min to go down 15, and they all looked like little boys that just got punished. Their faces were hilarious.

Click to expand...

How can coach do that? And Why? Their only penetrator is stuckey and he has a long way to go, Sheed is only half post player (dice isn't even that regardless of what 356 says). They take jumpshots because it is their "comfortable spot" not because flip tells them to do so.You have to live with that.