In some way the part of the community that keeps bringing up "remember back in Vanilla" are kind of the reason why it's not good atm.

New players are slaughtered in party chats and city chats due to a "lack of understanding of their class". I've talked to a lot of players who started in Wrath or later, who feels it's rather difficult to be accepted as new players due to the "Vanilla Clan".

Not saying it's the only reason for a bad community but it definately doesn't help.

OP Rant
Selfish assholes that is 80% of the community these days are the complete opposite of what I described now.
OP Rant

Omg, what did the police say?
Honestly, another one of these threads? Haven't we've seen plenty?
First of all, I totally disagree with everything you have to say.

If you hadn't made one of these posts, we'd probably have a lot incommon though. But now you did, so my human nature makes me refuse any type of agreement with you.

The game is better than any other game out there. And Blizzard has proved that to us, more than once. More than twice. Hell, more than eight or nine times.
This is what happens to a game when it grows old. And when the people who grow old with it, are replaced by a new playersbase.
Some of the people playing right now couldn't even Walk or talk when it was released.
The community grows old.

A multiplayer online game is not suppose to survive this long. Because this is what comes out of it.
Personally, I have no issue with that. I enjoy the game to the same extent that I did 8 years ago. Aswell as the community.
You just have to accept the fact, that the game changes, so does the people, and so do you.
As a person, you grow out of it. Your personality changes, along with everyone elses.

To answer your mistaken PoV on x-realm releated stuff.
It had to happen. It also plays a huge part in why the game survived for as long as it did, and currently is.

Long time since I took my precious time and threw it away on a rant post.
But I like your signature, so you deserve some attention.

Oh god that's the worst idea I've ever heard of. I'd have moved to another server every time someone started "stalking" me.

Soothing Mist:"Healing them for a minor amount every 0.5 sec, until you take any other action."Jade Serpent Statue: "The statue will also begin casting Soothing Mist on your target. healing for 50% as much as yours. " [What's half of minor?]
"Statue casts Soothing Mist at a nearby ally for toddler healing."

Eh, the community is fine... be nice to people (even the trolls) and they're usually nice back.

I don't understand the "back when DPS didn't matter" argument though. Kicking someone because their DPS is bad is perfectly reasonable. It shows they lack proper knowledge of their class, they can't be arsed to research their class or theory craft themselves, thus showing they couldn't be fucked putting in the effort or that they're just straight up bad.

Remember TBC 2006 We still had total assholes, trolls and shitbags. The community is the same

we did

Originally Posted by Ninaran

Yeah, there was the occasional douchebag. But LFR, LFD and CRZ gave them the massive playground they needed. I agree with OP. Game is better than before, the community just sucks.. or what's left of it.

the community got tired of it, now most of the people who are decent, do guild runs pretty much exclusively. LFD with 5 people, sure.

do you think i like doing double the overall damage in a 5 man over 2/3rds of the instance groups i do?
randomly 1 or two will just barely beat me, sometimes i get a rogue like i had in shado-pan who pulled 70+k dps on the last boss, yeah the one that ports around and sucks melee off the boss into the hatred totem things.

i don't care to much about the dps, i can even carry a bad healer mostly, some fights have to much aoe for it...
if people are at least keeping up with me it's fine, but everyone doing half my damage? ugh...i'll stay in the group unless someone causes a wipe...

blizzard enticed me with shiney bags of extra loot...so i deal with it.

but even my alt tank will beat peoples dps...kind of makes me sad.

Originally Posted by Ineko

Eh, the community is fine... be nice to people (even the trolls) and they're usually nice back.

I don't understand the "back when DPS didn't matter" argument though. Kicking someone because their DPS is bad is perfectly reasonable. It shows they lack proper knowledge of their class, they can't be arsed to research their class or theory craft themselves, thus showing they couldn't be fucked putting in the effort or that they're just straight up bad.

i played my rogue dierwolf-darkspear(us) back then, he got xfered over to Emerald Dream, same name, only had the private title on him
i actually almost got kicked from a few groups mid-high lvl, i hit 60 a bit before or after tbc came out, a couple found it hard to believe it was my first character.

but know what happened a bit through that? someone took me under their wing Rosar, (i still remember the name) and basically taught me how to do things, guides back then weren't as available as now, but there was a shadowpanther site...had some info he told me about.

people were more inclined to help others back then because it wasn't responded to with "#%#$^ you i know my class"
or my favorate when i am on a dps or healer "if you want to tank / heal then roll a tank/healer"
had it happen a few times on Glendrider-Darkspear, and even more recently on my remade Dierwolf-darkspear (i swapped servers in wotlk to a friends server, and remade my rogue as a nelf for an extra vanish / farming herbs in Freya's room, i hadn't played him seriously all xpack)

when people aren't inclined to take advice, the next best thing, which the "community" has revolved to, is hitting that kick button.
though i could care less as long as the dungeon gets done.

I miss this time. Everybody was happen as long as the boss went down. Dps meters were there, but they weren't used to kick unless it was the reason you failed the boss. People were generally nicer and more open to helping new players nail down their rotations and overall improve as a player. Now if you have bad dps, you are just kicked and a new player found.

Those times went away because of the players though. Hybrids weren't happy being support roles, they complained, Blizzard retuned them to deal competitive dps to pures, pures were pressured to perform cause why bring a pure when a hybrid can outperform and heal as necessary. Now everyone is a dps hero, expecting 437 ilvl fresh 90s to churn out dps of bursty classes geared at 490+ in their first MoP heroics. Even tanks have to deal damage in buckets rather than having high threat generating abilities.

11 Million mark back in TBC. How will you explain that there was less assholes back then now? You cant.
I will explain it to you. Accessibility based on your social behaviour: IF one was a deuche, others didnt played with him. Even other deuches didnt played with deuches because nobody likes to play with deuches.

How does it look now? Everything is accessible with a press of a LFx button.

Million mark back in TBC. How will you explain that there was less assholes back then now?

I can.... They can que for heroics, dungeons, bgs, raids and never ever be held accountable for their actions. Also I noticed in BC if you cussed someone out you would get suspended. It went from that to warning, warning, warning, warning, warning, 3 hr vaction. Now days it is right click report spam and nothing is ever done. So not only players are not held accountable for their actions by their sever they are not held accountable for their actions by blizzard. All you can do it put them on the ignore or right click report them witch does nothing. Oh if you post their auctions on the forums alerting people of said ninja or douchebag the blizzard mods will quickly delete it and forum ban you. remember the douchebags and ninjas pay the same 15 bucks a mo as you so they can not be held accountable for their actions

I started playing in vanilla beta. Only very few people had any "rep" from what I remember during vanilla. There was 1 notorious druid that ganked in BRM all day, there was very kind priest in very hardcore guild, and few others that PvP'd all day. That's all I ever "knew" outside my guild.

As for the community, I've never experienced people kicking for someone winning "their" loot that someone else can use. It was common to carry people, because it didn't matter most of the time. "Get in, we need nature res aura for AQ40" (I was playing my brothers hunter for lolz, to see what I can do with all that epics he had, who was in rather good guild and was asked to join them in AQ40. I had NO idea what to do with the hunter, or what to do in AQ40, but they wanted me for the damn aura, so join them I did. I did explain who I was, but they took me anyway, not because they were kind, but because they needed a warm body with the aura).

I think the reason people see more assholes these days, is because the community is just larger than it used to be, and assholes stand out from the crowd more than the kind ones.

There are still kind people out there, and I consider myself to be one of them. I help guildies from time to time with group quests and whatnot, crating, etc. People have just been playing for a long very time now, it's completely normal why things are like they are.

11 Million mark back in TBC. How will you explain that there was less assholes back then now? You cant.

I hope you realize that is hardly "in BC." That was essentially the start of Wrath. About 3 weeks before, in fact.

Nice try. I can amend my statement from "Not as many in Van and BC" to "Not as many as in Vanilla and much of BC." Ta da.

Keep grasping at straws, though!

I will explain it to you. Accessibility based on your social behaviour: IF one was a deuche, others didnt played with him. Even other deuches didnt played with deuches because nobody likes to play with deuches.

I played back then and this was just false. There would be maybe one or two people who were universally hated and avoided, but they were the exception to the rule, outliers. You either did not play back then or are vastly overestimating what actually happened.

Why call WoW a MMORPG when it's not it's trademark anymore.

So, the argument is that LFR has caused people to not care anymore about etiquette. Using that very standard (Not that I even agree with it), then this quote is just patently false. People are playing with more than ever, because before it was very often you only played with your guild or certain people on your server that played at the same time as you.

I know people like bashing WoW for a multitude of reasons (They can't move on, its the "cool" thing to do now, ect), but you're going to have to try a little harder than that.

I'd have to go with this. Just because X person thinks the game is worst is invaild. There are quite a few people our there that belive the game has gotten way better. I could agree with that.
r
For EXP : I knew people that quit WoW back in WotLK because "no life raiding" ( My friends words, Not mine ) was the only real way to get gear. I know atlease 4 people that have gotten back into the game just because the LFR system. I think the game is doing just fine. Too many bicthers is the problem.

People claim "Clickers" are bad at WoW and trash at PvP, Swifty once said " Clickers are easy targets, I can see them a mile away " Yup, That's why i've killed him 4 times 1 on 1 in duels, Never lost to him, once on a live stream. Reached Glad 7 times in my WoW career, Have a current rating of 2300, Solo 3's ( Sometimes with a healer ) because doing it in 2's is a joke. Mabye people need to stop saying stupid shit. Effort beats talent everytime.

I was a vanilla / TBC / early wrath n00b. I was in a big guild, but with casuals, and dungeons were mysterious places I never saw because getting groups together ate up way too much time, and I was constantly afraid I'd be laughed at for my n00bishness and put on this whole blacklist thing you guys praised so much.

Late wrath, though, the dungeon finder came out, and I was able to step in, step up, gear out in dungeons, cut my teeth in raiding, and allowed me to get into the raiding scene I'm in today.

In addition, the old "community" websites of old, of which my main source of information was the outdated or troll-heavy thottbot comments, were pretty lacking. Now there's all kinds of community websites that dole out information like a creepy guy in a windowless van giving out candy, and I couldn't be happier.

It's true that the accessibility improvements Blizzard has made over the years has allowed more of the unwanted behavior to be presented front-and-center, but they've also given legs up to casual players like me to enjoy all the game has to offer.

I'll take the relatively recent change of being able to take a couple friends and run through 5 mini-raids, over being stuck in Sentinel Hill still shouting "/1 LFG VC" for a longer amount of time.

I remember farming the Barman Shanker for my rogue in Vanilla. This was before weapon speed normalisation and the Barman Shanker used to be better than some epic daggers due to its low speed. They also didn't have the "you've entered too many instances recently" thing in the game yet.

So what we would do is spam /2 to find other rogues for the stealth run, stealth all the way to the boss, kill him, reset the instance, do it all over again. A group of random people, complete strangers, and we all wanted the same coveted weapon. But every one of us stayed in the party and continued to run the dungeon over and over again - until the last of the 5 of us had his dagger. No arguing, no dropping out of the party, nothing.

Unthinkable of WoW in this day and age. So, what happened?

Nothing special. It's just how people are. The more humans feel secured and "in charge" of what they're doing, the more they feel on firm ground and at home, the more they are confident in pursuing personal interests, and the more selfish and ignorant they become. The more they're living a routine, the more they start to wear blinders. It's not any different from the complete moron on the highway who wants to get home from his work and just doesn't give a fuck.

Time is a crucial factor to this. There wasn't any significant change in game design or whatever that changed things. But you adapt in your own way, even if you don't approve of it. I did the stealth run in 2005. Ask me today if I wanted to help out 4 strangers in BRD for hours, farming some stupid daggers? Hell no. I wouldn't be rude about it, but it's just nothing I would do today. I have a wider perception of the community and the big picture today. I might have perceived it as this virtual village back then, but over the years, I subconciously realized it's a goddamn metropolis.

Sometimes you see those random acts of kindness in the game, and this actually shows you that there's still decent people out there playing. But you don't see stuff like that on a daily basis in the real world either. It's just that people roll with the everyday routine. Nobody sticks out and after all, everyone's just minding their business and doing their stuff, without looking to the left and right all too much. The only thing that ever sticks out are the douchebags who use the moving mass of everyday trot to get away with their crap.

WoW isn't different from reality in this regard. The bigger things get, the more time passes by, the more people feel secured and confident, the more collective phasing occurs and the only thing that sticks out more is the crappy behaviour of ignorant individuals.

Last edited by Pull My Finger; 2012-12-31 at 07:47 AM.

Originally Posted by Rassium

I like General Off-Topic. It's really cool to see people with My Little Pony avatars advocating for genocide.

You ran BRC with the group from trade chat. You're level 53 and playing your first character and so are they. You have been in here for 2 hours and not even half way done. You might wipe a couple times, people make mistakes.

People appologize in chat and no one is getting kicked and people just laugh it off. An item drops, 3 people can use it. 1 person wins and the other two does not suddenly get the massive feel of entitlement over it and kick the winner.

Everyone on the server knew eachother, everyone had a rep for something they have done in the past and everyone knows how good of a person/player that guy standing afk in ironforge is.

Nobody gave a fuck if you did low damage, nobody cared if you sat in AV all day or raided naxx 7 days a week.
Nobody gave a fuck if you got carried through Karazhan to free epix by some guild that needed a last dps.

Selfish assholes that is 80% of the community these days are the complete opposite of what I described now.

I was a raider in TBC, still am now. I did not raid in vanilla as I was totally new. I dinged 60 on my main a few months before TBC was released and all I did was UBRS/Scholomance and battlegrounds.

I sit now in my chair sipping on some rum'ncoke thinking of what happened to this game. I think of how the game went to shit, where it actually did not but the community did. I blame server changes and cross realm dungeons. They were a good concept yes, but those things are what ruined this games "feel"

The game is fine, the community is not.

/rant off

and that community feel equally went on to make sure that a giant majority of the players never stepped foot in dungeons or raids. It's nice that you made it out fine, but the majority of people didn't. Changes weren't made just for the hell of it. They've been made because people weren't doing stuff, and various socially gated aspects of the community have grown higher and higher in keeping people out of stuff.

It'd sure be nice if there was a way to have a sense of community and have these things, but seemingly, the horrible community of this game flat out doesn't work.

pvp: it has become an arms race with cc. everyone has at least 5 ways to lock you down, or at least it feels that way. that and people die in a global or two.

pve: shared lockouts have killed pugs. as has LFR. noone wants to waste their "normal" lockout. now, people wont do pugs on alts often because well...theres LFR. no 5.2 dungeons means catching up will be kinda difficult, as LFR is less than ideal for gearing up rapidly (my lock alt has maybe 2 items to their name, no weapons/trinkets as of yet)

I still like the game, but there are some issues that still need to be ironed out.

11 Million mark back in TBC. How will you explain that there was less assholes back then now? You cant.
I will explain it to you. Accessibility based on your social behaviour: IF one was a deuche, others didnt played with him. Even other deuches didnt played with deuches because nobody likes to play with deuches.

How does it look now? Everything is accessible with a press of a LFx button.

I'd say that the amount of assholes hasn't changed, just the ability to be grouped with them. You don't HAVE to use the randomization tools, you know, and back then, the randomization tools that DID exist, Random BGs, were and still are chock full of assholes.