And pass rush, specifically on the DL, just doesn't come from the DE spot..

So how would you address the pass rush, assuming Chubb, Lawrence and Ansah aren't options?

Ok, first and foremost realize that some around here aren't in attack mode 24/7.. I was/am not trying to pick a 5 page "RBF/Bootz" fight with you by not liking your plan, I was just making conversation/talking things out..

real bucs fan wrote:Assuming Lawrence and Ansah stay put, our only real high percentage shot at getting a top pass rusher, as in a guy who can get double digit sacks in 2018, is Bradley Chubb. If Chubb is taken, then we have to gamble a bit. For myself, the gambles I would make would be as follows:

FA: Alex Okafor. Dude was breaking out in a big way before tearing his achilles. Watch that first Saints game, and he was a game wrecker against us.Draft: Lorenzo Carter. Right now he's a 3rd rounder, but I could see him skyrocketing post combine. To me he'd be a tremendous gamble at any point on Day 2. He's a freaky an athletic talent as you will find on planet earth, and he's a high character guy too. He just happened to be playing a different position than he'll be drafted for in college.

My big name targets in FA would be Panthers All-Pro LG Andrew Norwell, and Rams CB Trumaine Johnson. If there is a QB run ahead of us, and assuming Chubb is off the board, there's a chance Barkley could fall into our laps. In that case I'd sprint and take him at 7. Leaving us with an offseason of:

FA: Andrew Norwell, LGFA: Trumaine Johnson, CBFA: Alex Okafor, DE

R1: Saquan Barkley, RBR2: Lorenzo Carter, DE

LMAO. SK, I'm surprised you entertained him here. You know damn well RBF is yet again pushing his RB agenda. Yea, Lawrence and Ansah will stay put yet the Panthers are just going to let an All-Pro guard walk. So the best options to fix an anemic at best pass rush are to sign a DE with 18 sacks in 5 years coming off of a torn achilles and a college LB turned into a DE. Child please. This guy is a complete joke. King of the Casuals

Ok, first and foremost realize that some around here aren't in attack mode 24/7.. I was/am not trying to pick a 5 page "RBF/Bootz" fight with you by not liking your plan, I was just making conversation/talking things out..

3. Some guy over in TD said we could trade for JJ Watt...maybe we should do that...

Not attacking, just curious. I'm simply presenting what I would do. The bottom line is that there is little out there realistically, and no, I don't consider trading for JJ Watt realistic. But in reality, we have to do something clearly. If anyone has a better plan than the one I presented, I would genuinely love to hear it.

real bucs fan wrote:Assuming Lawrence and Ansah stay put, our only real high percentage shot at getting a top pass rusher, as in a guy who can get double digit sacks in 2018, is Bradley Chubb. If Chubb is taken, then we have to gamble a bit. For myself, the gambles I would make would be as follows:

FA: Alex Okafor. Dude was breaking out in a big way before tearing his achilles. Watch that first Saints game, and he was a game wrecker against us.Draft: Lorenzo Carter. Right now he's a 3rd rounder, but I could see him skyrocketing post combine. To me he'd be a tremendous gamble at any point on Day 2. He's a freaky an athletic talent as you will find on planet earth, and he's a high character guy too. He just happened to be playing a different position than he'll be drafted for in college.

My big name targets in FA would be Panthers All-Pro LG Andrew Norwell, and Rams CB Trumaine Johnson. If there is a QB run ahead of us, and assuming Chubb is off the board, there's a chance Barkley could fall into our laps. In that case I'd sprint and take him at 7. Leaving us with an offseason of:

FA: Andrew Norwell, LGFA: Trumaine Johnson, CBFA: Alex Okafor, DE

R1: Saquan Barkley, RBR2: Lorenzo Carter, DE

LMAO. SK, I'm surprised you entertained him here. You know damn well RBF is yet again pushing his RB agenda. Yea, Lawrence and Ansah will stay put yet the Panthers are just going to let an All-Pro guard walk. So the best options to fix an anemic at best pass rush are to sign a DE with 18 sacks in 5 years coming off of a torn achilles and a college LB turned into a DE. Child please. This guy is a complete joke. King of the Casuals

Sammich wrote:It's not gonna get fixed in one offseason. All we can do is get the best players available to us and hope. There isn't a person on this board (not even RBF) that would pass on Chubb if he's there, but it's very unlikely he is there. We're all just tossing out ideas of what we think would improve the team the most with the players that are likely to be available.

You also say we shouldn't count on rookies or free agents. What is this mysterious 3rd option you aren't sharing with us? I'm all for player development and home grown talent, but that isn't going to help us this year.

I want some of it to get fixed this offseason. The offensive line, the pass rush, the cornerback mess...some of it needs to get fixed. No safeties. No running backs. No, "this guy doesn't address any of the huge holes we've had since Licht got here, but he was our BPA" picks.

Our offensive line was arguably better in 2013 than it is now. That's after four years of Licht.Our pass rush isn't much better - if better at all - than it was in 2013. That's after four years of Licht.Our secondary is not better than it was in 2013. That's after four years of Licht.

Let's actually FIX one or two of these spots this offseason. Not with a band-aid, or a cute "under the radar" budget free agent. Let's shell out the money for a top corner and/or top guard and/or top rusher. Let's draft a top offensive lineman, or corner, or rusher.

Let's actually address our problems with authority.

I agree totally. That's why I said I'd be fine with guards in 1 and 2. We have the need and they will likely be available.

Davenport is reminding me a lot of Spence right now. A "hopefully in the second" round guy that all of the sudden is talked about as our high first round pick selection by people.... to hopefully end up being our 2nd at the end of it all.

Doctor wrote:Davenport is reminding me a lot of Spence right now. A "hopefully in the second" round guy that all of the sudden is talked about as our high first round pick selection by people.... to hopefully end up being our 2nd at the end of it all.

I'm good with it. He's not a junkie, he seems more dedicated and eager to learn and has better measurables and tape.

Doctor wrote:Davenport is reminding me a lot of Spence right now. A "hopefully in the second" round guy that all of the sudden is talked about as our high first round pick selection by people.... to hopefully end up being our 2nd at the end of it all.

I'm good with it. He's not a junkie, he seems more dedicated and eager to learn and has better measurables and tape.

Agreed...

And imagine if we were somehow able to nab Chubb in round 1 adding a player like Davenport in round 2 would be perfection...

Doctor wrote:Davenport is reminding me a lot of Spence right now. A "hopefully in the second" round guy that all of the sudden is talked about as our high first round pick selection by people.... to hopefully end up being our 2nd at the end of it all.

A few differences. One, as mentioned, no drugs or character flags. Two, Noah Spence is a 3-4 outside linebacker, and not even a big one, and we're obviously a 4-3 team and somehow we didn't think that would matter. Davenport is build like Jason Pierre Paul.

Davenport doesn't have better tape than Spence, Spence showed on tape an elite first step, great technique, and had tape against top competition (if you go back to his Ohio State tape vs guys like Donovan Smith etc)... but Davenport does have much better size and a clean background. Different guys to be sure, but I understand the sentiment. He's a gamble that you'd rather take on Day 2....

real bucs fan wrote:Davenport doesn't have better tape than Spence, Spence showed on tape an elite first step, great technique, and had tape against top competition (if you go back to his Ohio State tape vs guys like Donovan Smith etc)... but Davenport does have much better size and a clean background. Different guys to be sure, but I understand the sentiment. He's a gamble that you'd rather take on Day 2....

Davenport is a guy you'd expect to be a better pro than college player. It doesn't mean you'll be right. There are no sure things obviously. But the assumption should be that a guy with his measurables and skill set can do great things if well coached. It's a gamble, but it's a worthwhile gamble. Every championship roster has a few.

real bucs fan wrote:Davenport doesn't have better tape than Spence, Spence showed on tape an elite first step, great technique, and had tape against top competition (if you go back to his Ohio State tape vs guys like Donovan Smith etc)... but Davenport does have much better size and a clean background. Different guys to be sure, but I understand the sentiment. He's a gamble that you'd rather take on Day 2....

Davenport is a guy you'd expect to be a better pro than college player. It doesn't mean you'll be right. There are no sure things obviously. But the assumption should be that a guy with his measurables and skill set can do great things if well coached. It's a gamble, but it's a worthwhile gamble. Every championship roster has a few.

I am intrigued by Davenport for sure... I look forward to the combine, because I want to see him show and prove that he is this freak athlete. He definitely looks the part, but athleticism can be misleading on tape when against weaker competition. Ultimately though, I would rather gamble on Lorenzo Carter on Day 2 than Davenport at 7. Carter IMO is every bit the prospect Davenport is- tremendous raw talent combined with high character, just needs great coaching to reach his potential.

MJW wrote:Davenport is a guy you'd expect to be a better pro than college player. It doesn't mean you'll be right. There are no sure things obviously. But the assumption should be that a guy with his measurables and skill set can do great things if well coached. It's a gamble, but it's a worthwhile gamble. Every championship roster has a few.

I am intrigued by Davenport for sure... I look forward to the combine, because I want to see him show and prove that he is this freak athlete. He definitely looks the part, but athleticism can be misleading on tape when against weaker competition. Ultimately though, I would rather gamble on Lorenzo Carter on Day 2 than Davenport at 7. Carter IMO is every bit the prospect Davenport is- tremendous raw talent combined with high character, just needs great coaching to reach his potential.

The scenerio that was, most recently, laid out was Davenport in round 2...not at 7...that where the Spence comparisons came in (edge guy who flew up draft boards only to fall to us in round 2 etc)....

What are your thoughts on Davenport in round 2? (Just play along like he'll be there)....

real bucs fan wrote:I am intrigued by Davenport for sure... I look forward to the combine, because I want to see him show and prove that he is this freak athlete. He definitely looks the part, but athleticism can be misleading on tape when against weaker competition. Ultimately though, I would rather gamble on Lorenzo Carter on Day 2 than Davenport at 7. Carter IMO is every bit the prospect Davenport is- tremendous raw talent combined with high character, just needs great coaching to reach his potential.

The scenerio that was, most recently, laid out was Davenport in round 2...not at 7...that where the Spence comparisons came in (edge guy who flew up draft boards only to fall to us in round 2 etc)....

What are your thoughts on Davenport in round 2? (Just play along like he'll be there)....

Davenport would be the perfect type of edge gamble on Day 2, assuming we don't have Chubb fall into our laps in round 1.

Super K wrote:The scenerio that was, most recently, laid out was Davenport in round 2...not at 7...that where the Spence comparisons came in (edge guy who flew up draft boards only to fall to us in round 2 etc)....

What are your thoughts on Davenport in round 2? (Just play along like he'll be there)....

Davenport would be the perfect type of edge gamble on Day 2, assuming we don't have Chubb fall into our laps in round 1.

As SK stated before even if we land Chubb in the 1st landing Davenport in the 2nd would be great as well. Double dip on a weak position.

real bucs fan wrote:Davenport doesn't have better tape than Spence, Spence showed on tape an elite first step, great technique, and had tape against top competition (if you go back to his Ohio State tape vs guys like Donovan Smith etc)... but Davenport does have much better size and a clean background. Different guys to be sure, but I understand the sentiment. He's a gamble that you'd rather take on Day 2....

Hopefully he doesnt have a hidden bum shoulder or some other kind of ailment.

Probably not. I see him going to a place with some good dline guys in place that would be fine redshirting him for a year or 2. Hypothetically though, if he made it to us in the second I would take him.

I always love statements like these. They are said about 50 or so players every year, yet only 32 can ever be taken in the first round.

O-line is what is going to make Davenport available in the 2nd, maybe not even then. Maybe we can get him to tank his combine because before its all over if he kills the combine we will be talking about picking him 1st. Maybe with a trade down and maybe not.

real bucs fan wrote:Davenport doesn't have better tape than Spence, Spence showed on tape an elite first step, great technique, and had tape against top competition (if you go back to his Ohio State tape vs guys like Donovan Smith etc)... but Davenport does have much better size and a clean background. Different guys to be sure, but I understand the sentiment. He's a gamble that you'd rather take on Day 2....

Hopefully he doesnt have a hidden bum shoulder or some other kind of ailment.

The irony is Spence fell due to character concerns, and his character has been top notch since he got here. It's simply unfortunate this shoulder thing has happened, and it happened post draft, so I still think it was a good gamble.

mdb1958 wrote:Hopefully he doesnt have a hidden bum shoulder or some other kind of ailment.

The irony is Spence fell due to character concerns, and his character has been top notch since he got here. It's simply unfortunate this shoulder thing has happened, and it happened post draft, so I still think it was a good gamble.

I was happy to get him in the 2nd round, but in retrospect I'm wondering if we shouldn't have been more bothered about his size. Is he always going to be banged up if he's expected to take on 330 lbs tackles head up? It's possible he's simply not built to play in our scheme, and it's a concern. At the very least, I'm dubious he's ever going to be an every-down player here.

real bucs fan wrote:The irony is Spence fell due to character concerns, and his character has been top notch since he got here. It's simply unfortunate this shoulder thing has happened, and it happened post draft, so I still think it was a good gamble.

I was happy to get him in the 2nd round, but in retrospect I'm wondering if we shouldn't have been more bothered about his size. Is he always going to be banged up if he's expected to take on 330 lbs tackles head up? It's possible he's simply not built to play in our scheme, and it's a concern. At the very least, I'm dubious he's ever going to be an every-down player here.

Every-down EDGE rushers are few and far between. It's all about depth on the Dline and having guys that can rush the QB in predictable passing downs/situations.

It would obviously be great if Spence can be a solid run defender. But having him healthy and rushing the QB on 3rd down and late in games we're leading is where his value is.

Look at Dante Fowler for example. The guy doesn't even play on 1st down in their base defense, yet is considered a starter and was a key part of that Jags pass rush. Chris Long and Derek Barnett didn't start for Philly yet were vital parts of the 3rd down/rush package for what was a dominating D-line.

If Spence can atleast fill that role for the Bucs I'd be very satisfied. He needs to stay healthy.

real bucs fan wrote:The irony is Spence fell due to character concerns, and his character has been top notch since he got here. It's simply unfortunate this shoulder thing has happened, and it happened post draft, so I still think it was a good gamble.

I was happy to get him in the 2nd round, but in retrospect I'm wondering if we shouldn't have been more bothered about his size. Is he always going to be banged up if he's expected to take on 330 lbs tackles head up? It's possible he's simply not built to play in our scheme, and it's a concern. At the very least, I'm dubious he's ever going to be an every-down player here.

I think we thought he could be a situational edge rusher, and I still think there's hope, he just needs to get healthy. If anything I blame management for allowing him to play through his shoulder injury the first time. He's got enough bulk to be a situational edge rusher, it's not like he's some super long wirey 250lbs, he's a super jacked 6'2" 250lbs.

MJW wrote:I was happy to get him in the 2nd round, but in retrospect I'm wondering if we shouldn't have been more bothered about his size. Is he always going to be banged up if he's expected to take on 330 lbs tackles head up? It's possible he's simply not built to play in our scheme, and it's a concern. At the very least, I'm dubious he's ever going to be an every-down player here.

Every-down EDGE rushers are few and far between. It's all about depth on the Dline and having guys that can rush the QB in predictable passing downs/situations.

It would obviously be great if Spence can be a solid run defender. But having him healthy and rushing the QB on 3rd down and late in games we're leading is where his value is.

Look at Dante Fowler for example. The guy doesn't even play on 1st down in their base defense, yet is considered a starter and was a key part of that Jags pass rush. Chris Long and Derek Barnett didn't start for Philly yet were vital parts of the 3rd down/rush package for what was a dominating D-line.

If Spence can atleast fill that role for the Bucs I'd be very satisfied. He needs to stay healthy.

I'd be perfectly happy if he played 25 snaps a game had notched 10 sacks a season. I'm just starting to wonder if he's stout enough even for that. We'll see. Not giving up on him by any stretch. But for obvious reasons, not feeling great about it either. I'd like him a lot more if he were playing off of a five-tech's hip, which obviously isn't us.

MJW wrote:I was happy to get him in the 2nd round, but in retrospect I'm wondering if we shouldn't have been more bothered about his size. Is he always going to be banged up if he's expected to take on 330 lbs tackles head up? It's possible he's simply not built to play in our scheme, and it's a concern. At the very least, I'm dubious he's ever going to be an every-down player here.

I think we thought he could be a situational edge rusher, and I still think there's hope, he just needs to get healthy. If anything I blame management for allowing him to play through his shoulder injury the first time. He's got enough bulk to be a situational edge rusher, it's not like he's some super long wirey 250lbs, he's a super jacked 6'2" 250lbs.

All the 240 - 250 lb edge rusher in this draft will have to play at that weight if putting on the pounds slows them down to much. There is well over a dozen of them.