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They now have a tradition called "the elephant walk", where the seniors go from bar to bar around their campus in a circle... Like senior elephants used to do, I guess.

I pointed out that the Elephant Walk is traditionally known as a frat hazing thing where dudes walk in a line grabbing the guys junk in front of them while the guy behind them grabs their junk... So maybe they shouldn't embrace the concept so earnestly.

My aggy friends didn't find the connection as funny as I did. I just didn't understand, being from TU

Isn't Elephant Walk where the seniors walk around campus and the juniors get to throw $#@! on them? And by $#@!, I mean eggs, garbage, etc. Am I imagining this?

I was told by an Ag that the Elephant Walk now is no where near what it used to be in the early 90's when he went. The Elephant Walk is where Seniors take one last walk around campus to remember the good times they had, but the juniors started to mess with them during the walk by throwing water balloons at them. It eventually escalated as seniors started fighting back, eventually someone got hurt, so now they are not allowed to mess with the seniors anymore.

...but then quotes Zach Hamilton of aggy's "Traditions Council" as saying it's ok to use it: ""We don't know that he said it, but we don't know that he didn't say it," Hamilton said. "I think it's absolutely fine to use it because you can't prove that it wasn't said."

...but then quotes Zach Hamilton of aggy's "Traditions Council" as saying it's ok to use it: ""We don't know that he said it, but we don't know that he didn't say it," Hamilton said. "I think it's absolutely fine to use it because you can't prove that it wasn't said."

I'll buy that. It's ok to attribute any quote about the Aggies as long as you can't prove that it wasn't said. Jesus said Aggies suck.

+1. I served before I attended Texas. There is nothing that gets me more pissed off than aggy corp who flaunt their corp around as if they are on equal ground with those who do or have served. And believe me, I've been around plenty of those fake son of a bitches. For those Aggies who do serve, God Bless'em but if you think that I need to pay an ounce of respect to a bunch of Hitler Germany goose steppers simply because they're "in the corp" and for A&M's supposed traditions and faux military history/affiliation, you can lick my $#@! clean.

As for the hot women comment Bizzle gave. I grew up in SoCal. One of the reasons I chose A&M over the Air Force Academy was the culture shock I had with Texas beauties. Let's be fair here, A&M has a talented co-ed population.

talented? what you got 'em trained so you don't have to stuff their back hooves in your boots?

I was told by an Ag that the Elephant Walk now is no where near what it used to be in the early 90's when he went. The Elephant Walk is where Seniors take one last walk around campus to remember the good times they had, but the juniors started to mess with them during the walk by throwing water balloons at them. It eventually escalated as seniors started fighting back, eventually someone got hurt, so now they are not allowed to mess with the seniors anymore.

who cares about that harassment $#@!, do ewalkers still hold hands bent over between their legs?

Honestly, I don't know what the SEC would get if they take aggy separated from Texas.

Aggy really is unique in the college football--and really in the higher education--world. It's entire sense of itself is defined by being "Not Texas." That sense of self is engrained in Fish Camp (i.e., the aggy orientation program that incoming freshmen go to). Everything from their fight song ("Good-bye to Texas University; So long to the orange and the white . . .") to their political outlook (i.e., no liberal like those hippies in Austin) is built around Texas.

There was nothing so indicative of that as the bonfire, which was built to symbolize their "burning hatred" of Texas. Construction of the thing began at the outset of the semester and lasted until the week before finals. Construction was done at all hours, and with many students (especially those in the Corps), there were weeks in which far more time was spent in construction than in classwork. That's how important being Not Texas is to aggy.

If you separate aggy from Texas, then I don't know what'll become of them. Are they going to sing "Good-bye to Texas University" while LSU is hanging 70 on them? Are they still going to have their de-horned Longhorn stickers on the back of their cars when they drive to Alabama to watch a beatdown? Who are they going to measure their own (protested too much) heterosexuality against if the "fehgs" in Austin aren't rivals?

Honestly, I don't know what the SEC would get if they take aggy separated from Texas.

Aggy really is unique in the college football--and really in the higher education--world. It's entire sense of itself is defined by being "Not Texas." That sense of self is engrained in Fish Camp (i.e., the aggy orientation program that incoming freshmen go to). Everything from their fight song ("Good-bye to Texas University; So long to the orange and the white . . .") to their political outlook (i.e., no liberal like those hippies in Austin) is built around Texas.

There was nothing so indicative of that as the bonfire, which was built to symbolize their "burning hatred" of Texas. Construction of the thing began at the outset of the semester and lasted until the week before finals. Construction was done at all hours, and with many students (especially those in the Corps), there were weeks in which far more time was spent in construction than in classwork. That's how important being Not Texas is to aggy.

If you separate aggy from Texas, then I don't know what'll become of them. Are they going to sing "Good-bye to Texas University" while LSU is hanging 70 on them? Are they still going to have their de-horned Longhorn stickers on the back of their cars when they drive to Alabama to watch a beatdown? Who are they going to measure their own (protested too much) heterosexuality against if the "fehgs" in Austin aren't rivals?

Honestly, I don't know what the SEC would get if they take aggy separated from Texas.

Aggy really is unique in the college football--and really in the higher education--world. It's entire sense of itself is defined by being "Not Texas." That sense of self is engrained in Fish Camp (i.e., the aggy orientation program that incoming freshmen go to). Everything from their fight song ("Good-bye to Texas University; So long to the orange and the white . . .") to their political outlook (i.e., no liberal like those hippies in Austin) is built around Texas.

There was nothing so indicative of that as the bonfire, which was built to symbolize their "burning hatred" of Texas. Construction of the thing began at the outset of the semester and lasted until the week before finals. Construction was done at all hours, and with many students (especially those in the Corps), there were weeks in which far more time was spent in construction than in classwork. That's how important being Not Texas is to aggy.

If you separate aggy from Texas, then I don't know what'll become of them. Are they going to sing "Good-bye to Texas University" while LSU is hanging 70 on them? Are they still going to have their de-horned Longhorn stickers on the back of their cars when they drive to Alabama to watch a beatdown? Who are they going to measure their own (protested too much) heterosexuality against if the "fehgs" in Austin aren't rivals?

You do realize that there is a university in college station too. You know, leaning and $#@!. And it doesnt suck.

You do realize that there is a university in college station too. You know, leaning and $#@!. And it doesnt suck.

Same engineers that designed the bonfire? Too soon?

Nobody questions the educational potential or the academics. Its a great degree in many fields. Surprisingly strong in spite of all the weirdness and reactionaries trying to recreate the 1800's. My brother got his masters there. Great for his career. Normal guy.
But the "real ags" do so much damage to the total product. You create a culture shock for many recruits. A few goobers end up defining your national image. It's not BOMC, it's all dumbassery and self destruction. The fact "traditions" have hampered educational quality for so long is a real injustice to higher education in Texas. The 2%ers and moderate, "normal students" seemed to be gaining ground, then the football team posts a winning record again and it feels like the early 90's brand of insufferable aggy with added irritation of the Sec^3 chant from a bunch of dumbfucks.
Play the season. Cheer or whoop or whatever you do for your team. Enjoy it. don't live vicariously through another conference.
And quit $#@!-blocking your older brother. Go win and get your own action.
Or go get dumped, lose, and go punch you pillow, cry and threaten to run away from home again next year.

What I know for sure is that among your everyday college football fan, the national perception is that Texas has bending over A&M in more ways than just on the field. While I knew that wasn't exactly the case, I didn't understand their utter disdain for you guys, when the relationship has clearly been profitable for both. The facts in this thread are eye-opening to say the least...

Wait I thought these guys were pro wealth distribution. Does that only apply to football?

No, to aggy it extends all the way to the borders of aggy owned real estate with athletics receiving "special" attention. But the rest of the world needs to worry about themselves, according to the political slant of the agroid.

In 1962, some A&M corp turds stole the Horse, the Masked Rider horse and cut the horses tail off and ears, ran a sword through her side and killed the horse, and send the tail and ears plus the where abouts of the dead horse (Mind you, this is a vetanarian school) and in the note said, "this is what we are going to do to your football team". Well, that infurated the Tech community and Tech whipped aghole that night 14-0.

In 1968, an Texas Tech Alumn was elected Govonor of Texas. For years Texas Tech tried to get a Medical School, Law School, Nursing School and Vet School. Under Preston Smith's govornorship, Tech was approved for all and got funding for all but the Vet School. Plus TONS of money came to Texas Tech and massive building projects were completed. Aghole was infuriated that Tech would get all of these prestigous type "schools". A&M doesn't have any of those except a Vet School. Only one in a state this large. Go figure?

Wait I thought these guys were pro wealth distribution. Does that only apply to football?

I have a range of emotions on Aggy leaving. The one thing that really pisses me off is their outright hypocrisy on income distribution.

A&M is one of the most conservative institutions in the US; reading their political boards is an exercise in learning all the evils of progressive taxation, all welfare programs, etc. I'm fine with them holding these opinions. But for them to turn right back around and claim that all profit needs to be "shared" for an equal playing field when it comes to athletics is outright hysterical. It goes from hysterical to outright bull$#@! when you realize that A&M NEVER wanted equal distribution when they were getting as much as Texas / OU. It was completely fine for them to take exit fee money the forgotten 5 gave up; it was completely fine for A&M to make more money that those schools because they "earned it". And yet, as soon as Texas ran away from them with money, they went ballistic.

Well, no--it's not too soon. Because the bonfire is actually instructive to someone who wants to know about aggy, because it encapsulates everything about the aggy mindset and what holds them back from being a "university of the first class." So a few points about the thing and how it is the aggy experience (both externally and internally) in microcosm.

1) Aggy-Speak: The first thing an outsider needs to know about the bonfire is it's not "a bonfire." It's not "the bonfire." It's not even "The Bonfire." It's "Bonfire." Like that's its name. Definite articles and indefinite articles are frowned upon in aggyville. There are a thousand little shibboleths that allow aggys to recognize one another. It has resulted in a unique dialect that is never deviated from. You'll see in official university communications The University of Texas referred to as "tu" and its alumni referred to as "sips." You'll hear aggys "whoop"--literally loudly yell "whoop"--at any mention of Texas A&M. And I mean any mention. I've heard aggys whoop at a funeral oration.

2) Focus on Texas: Of course, the entire undertaking was to build a bonfire to be burned the night before the game against Texas. To symbolize their burning hatred of Texas, don't you know. That's the funny thing about this entire SEC embroglio: what are they to do without Texas? Their entire identity is wrapped up in measuring themselves against Texas. Everything from the size of their stadium to their admissions requirements is measured against Texas.

3) Rejection of Book Learnin': The bonfire was traditionally burned near the end of the semester, but construction started in mid-September with "Cut"--remember that definite article thing--where students went out to a forest to cut down trees to be used in the bonfire. That took several weeks, and then construction began around October 1. Toward the last two weeks, they had "Push," which happened to coincide with midterms. But during that time, students living in dorms were routinely shanghaied to work on "Stack," even in the middle of the night.

It kind of pissed off professors when students would roll in bleary-eyed after having spent the previous night working construction. But this is aggy--what are you doing to do about it, Poindexter? Because building the bonfire has more important lessons than anything learned in class . . . like . . . um . . . leadership. Yeah--leadership. Leadership's good. And . . . um . . . followership. Followership's also good. In point of fact, followership is generally regarded as much more important to the aggy psyche than leadership, though they give much more lip-service to the latter.

4) Tradition and Groupthink: Here's the really tragic part of the story.

The bonfire started about a hundred years ago with students piling up a bunch of $#@! to burn. Do something three times, and aggys regard it as a "tradition." And of course, traditions have to be improved upon. So aggy started building the thing higher and higher, with increasing complexity. When it collapsed in 1999, it was around 60-feet tall. Construction involved cranes and heavy machinery, stacking logs that each weighed several tons.

But because it started as the haphazard stacking of a trash pile, there were never any plans. That's right--every year they did a major construction project of a six-story building with no written plans; no blueprints; no specs. Just the general idea of what they had done the previous year. Because it was "tradition."

It was built without any professional assistance and not adhearing to any professional standards. The OSHA rulebook? They never heard of it. Basic concepts of safety--like don't scale a sixty-foot stack of logs while drunk off your ass--were ignored. That's not right. They weren't ignored. They were never even thought of.

The amazing thing is that this state of affairs went on for decades without a word of interferance from anybody. Nobody in their (admittedly quite decent) engineering department thought to make any suggestions. Nobody from the university's legal department recognized that this was a legal disaster waiting to happen. Nobody in the university's administration recognized what an inherent danger they were acquiescing to. It's one thing for a bunch of 20-year olds to do stupid $#@!. They're 20--that's what they do. What is really remarkable is how that groupthink permeated the faculty and administration.

5) Martyrdom: After the collapse ("Collapse"?), aggy immediately turned the 12 dead students into martyrs.

Admittedly, there's something universal in the human desire to believe that a death has some greater meaning; that it wasn't useless or stupid. In this instance, it was useless and stupid. But it's not surprising that people would not want to acknowledge such.

What is surprising is the length to which aggy went (and continues to go) to assert the martyrdom of "The 12." It started immediately, when aggy saw the deathtoll as some sort of divine demand that the football team win the game against Texas. The 12th Man, and all. They won. Yippee. Who cares. It was a football game. Twelve kids were dead.

The truly moronic thing is how since then aggys have tried to restart the bonfire because "that's what they would've wanted." Let's get something straight, $#@!heads--what they would've wanted was to be alive right now. Not dead because of an inherently ill-considered and stupid tradition. Those kids would be alive today if they had gone to any other school, because there isn't a school in America--and I dare say there's not an institution of any kind in America--that would commit such institutional negligence as Texas A&M with respect to the bonfire.

But that's still what aggys think. And as evidence, they proclaimed how none of the parents sued the university for its negligence. Until they did sue. And then they became traitors. Traitors not so much to the university, but to the memories of their own kids. Because the kids died doing what they wanted to do, don't you know. So aggys publicly hounded and disparaged parents whose kids were killed by the university's own gross and incalculable stupidity.

I have a range of emotions on Aggy leaving. The one thing that really pisses me off is their outright hypocrisy on income distribution.

A&M is one of the most conservative institutions in the US; reading their political boards is an exercise in learning all the evils of progressive taxation, all welfare programs, etc. I'm fine with them holding these opinions. But for them to turn right back around and claim that all profit needs to be "shared" for an equal playing field when it comes to athletics is outright hysterical. It goes from hysterical to outright bull$#@! when you realize that A&M NEVER wanted equal distribution when they were getting as much as Texas / OU. It was completely fine for them to take exit fee money the forgotten 5 gave up; it was completely fine for A&M to make more money that those schools because they "earned it". And yet, as soon as Texas ran away from them with money, they went ballistic.

But that's still what aggys think. And as evidence, they proclaimed how none of the parents sued the university for its negligence. Until they did sue. And then they became traitors. Traitors not so much to the university, but to the memories of their own kids. Because the kids died doing what they wanted to do, don't you know. So aggys publicly hounded and disparaged parents whose kids were killed by the university's own gross and incalculable stupidity.

Good breakdown LL. The other tragedy about this one portion was that within 24 hours of the "collapse" aggys that I personally knew were spouting ridiculous rhetoric regarding "aggys don't sue aggys." This was their groupthink/talking points response to the negative press the media espoused immediately following the deaths of students and alumni working on the bonfire that night.

I freely admit, I breathed a sigh of release when the lawsuits came flying in. Some normalcy and decency finally showed itself amongst the agroid nation.

I hearby nominate LonghornLawyer to teach orientation to all UT Freshmen for all eternity.

While I appreciate LL's breakdown and intense understanding of aggy, not a thing was mentioned about Texas A&M at my freshman orientation at The University of Texas, and that is an experience that I think should be preserved. Because why the $#@! would anyone say anything about aggy at UT orientation?

You have a low opinion of our incoming freshmen, Bill. I assume they don't need to be told at orientation that water is wet or that the sky is blue. They should already know that OU sucks and that aggy is aggy. They don't need any special mention of such truisms at orientation.

2) Focus on Texas: Of course, the entire undertaking was to build a bonfire to be burned the night before the game against Texas. To symbolize their burning hatred of Texas, don't you know. That's the funny thing about this entire SEC embroglio: what are they to do without Texas? Their entire identity is wrapped up in measuring themselves against Texas. Everything from the size of their stadium to their admissions requirements is measured against Texas.

4) Tradition and Groupthink: Here's the really tragic part of the story.

The bonfire started about a hundred years ago with students piling up a bunch of $#@! to burn. Do something three times, and aggys regard it as a "tradition." And of course, traditions have to be improved upon. So aggy started building the thing higher and higher, with increasing complexity. When it collapsed in 1999, it was around 60-feet tall. Construction involved cranes and heavy machinery, stacking logs that each weighed several tons.

But because it started as the haphazard stacking of a trash pile, there were never any plans. That's right--every year they did a major construction project of a six-story building with no written plans; no blueprints; no specs. Just the general idea of what they had done the previous year. Because it was "tradition."

So aggy started building the thing higher and higher,

this higher and higher business is related back to Texas also. Texas, for years, also had a bonfire, and for a few years there was kind of a rivalry to see who could stack up the most $#@! to burn. Texas of course did it for fun and their pile of trash was just that, but aggy took it deadly serious, they bonfire HAD to be bigger than the hated tu's bonfire so they stacked it higher and higher. To get real height, some aggy genius hit upon the deadly wedding cake design. After a while Texas lost interest in doing a bonfire and they quit. I went to one of the last ones in the field across from the intermural fields, it was no big deal, and they built the Winters complex on that field shortly thereafter.