I will start with telling you, I feel bad for the victims of our recent hurricane and as a civil society we should do all we can to aid the victims. I do agree our dysfunctional government is having great difficulty helping. Not for the lack of effort but I think we are a nation of overpaid bureaucrats rather than the type of people we use to be that can make things happen. We all know our government is broke in general and to be honest I donít have the fix but Iím willing to help out. Now for the hate. As a Citizen of this country Iíll be god dame if ill wait for the government to fix my problems! People all over the world have no electricity, live in freezing climates, eat every other day, Hall water over a kilometer for cooking cleaning and hygiene, walk miles to look for work or to pick up wood for cooking and walk back. VICTIMS GET OFF YOUR *** AND HELP YOURSELF! Quit crying oh poor me. If you want to sit and cry over all this **** move to high ground and suck start your .45! I will help those who try, I refuse to aid those who refuse to help them self. I do feel our government/ society of hand outs and cradle to grave gimies has ruined us. I am so close to moving to the hills and dropping off this society itís crazy. Before you think Iím all mouth (lol) understand my back ground and I currently support my wife and 3 other familyís (yes relatives but they are the working poor and just canít make it on what they earn and we do not accept government assistance) The poor in our country need to stop crying and start trying. If the so called poor in the USA (by the way they own an Xbox, cell, phone car and are 50lbs overweight) you would be solid middle class almost everywhere else in the world! Yes there are some who have nothing but a majority are not truly poor they are just lazy! OK I've vented and feel better let the flaming begin.

No flames being sent from my little corner of the world. I think that somewhere it says that, "The Lord helps those who help themselves," or something like that. Too many are on the gubberment dole. I of limited fixed income recently sent a significant amount of dollars to an organization that I believe will put it to good use assisting the victims of Sandy.

__________________"Because of the one-pointed time awareness in which the conventional mind remains immersed, humans tend to think of everything in a sequential, word-oriented framework. This mental trap produces very short-term concepts of effectiveness and consequences, a condition of constant, unplanned response to crises." Liet-Kynes - Dune

I don't think anyone here thinks that just giving stuff to people is the way to go, or is a way to
build a strong prosperous society. On the other hand, the majority of the folks living in NY, NJ and along the NE Coasts have never seen something like this in a very, very long time... Perhaps some of the elderly.

If you've never gone through a major natural disaster, there's a lot going on in someone's mind that they just can't fathom. Many I'm sure are suffering from PTSD and simply just aren't in the right frame of mind. Also, if you're already poor or don't have much, the damage done only adds to the mental strain. If persay one is wealthy or has options, then things aren't as bad as you have a clear way out.

Also, Americans are among the most generous in the world,...regardless of class. The poor as well as the wealthy have given what they have in times of crisis here and abroad. Nothing wrong with them getting a bit back when in trouble.

As for the govt role, it's one of the few things that govt. is supposed to do during times of crisis. It's just too bad that things aren't better organized.

I agree that even in normal times, it's up to the individual to pull him/herself up and do what needs to be done to better their lives. Fact is, our education system isn't designed to create successful people, it's designed to create "worker-bees" and "consumers" to increase the wealth of those that have it. This is what the Rothschild's educational system was designed to do.

Having said that, I grew up dirt poor with no parents, and was on my own at 18. I've worked hard through the ups and downs and have done relatively good for myself and for my daughter. I've travelled the world...especially to some of the poorer countries, and I can say that the "poor" in america are actually rich by comparison to literally BILLIONS of the majority poor in the world. Most of these people live on less than 3.00 a day!

We live in a culture today (due to politics) where we are expected to be taken care of by the govt. From Corporations on down... GE pays little to no taxes.. Apple paid 2% last year..and the list goes on and on and on. Compared with the few billions that the govt doles out to people, the corporations get literally TRILLIONS in tax breaks via loop holes and corporate welfare.

Not too long ago, the tried curbing subsides (welfare) to the oil companies. Gues what their response was?? Take the welfare, and your oil prices will definitely go up. They have a gun to the heads of those in congress, but I'm guessing it was just a show anyways, seeing that they lobbyist supports so many of their campaigns on the left and the right.

Try telling folks on the right or left that you're not going to be "socialist" anymore and take away their SS, Medicaid and Medicare. Don't want this to sound political, as I'm an A-political person...but that's what it comes down to.

In the end, no man/woman should let their prosperity by determined by who or what party is in power.

Well, well, well.... Where do I begin?
What exactly is the topic of this post anyway? Is it a scathing attack on the victims of a horrible natural disaster who truly need aid or is it an expression of contempt for people who are habitually dependent on the government? I have no desire to address the latter, but having seen the former firsthand I have much to say. I am not sure why both categories of people are mentioned in a post entitled "Our Give Me Society", for even though you say that you sympathize with the hurricane victims, the fact that you include them in a post titled as such says otherwise.

To say that victims of this disaster are "yelling" and "tiresome" must be an easy thing for you to do as you watch the images on your TV from the comfort of your living room chair. If you find these images so tiresome, why don't you just turn the TV off? You can, you know. After all, you have electricity, a TV, and a roof over your head. Why don't you come up here and see firsthand what people are living with? See the truth. The reality. These people are not yelling for nothing. For many, life and health are in jeopardy, for themselves and their families, which include children, the elderly, and the infirm . They yell out of sheer frustration. No matter where a natural or man-made disaster occurs, I support the victims in any way that I can, and I also keep them in my prayers. I never feel that people are yelling or complaining needlessly. If I have not walked in someone else's shoes, I don't dare judge them.

Because people around the world live with hardship on a daily basis, does that mean that people who have lost their homes and all of their possessions due to a natural disaster have no right to complain? What does one thing have to do with the other? I wonder if some of you would speak so high and mighty if you lost your home, all of your clothes and maybe some of your loved ones and friends as well. Maybe you heard the story about the mother whose two small children were ripped from her arms by an eight-foot wave. I still can't accept that one. When you get tired of watching the people yell on your TV, why not click on this link for fun http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hoWs...feature=relmfu But I guess that you will watch this and smugly say that she should not have been out there and that she got what she deserved, which brings me to my next point.

You have open contempt because some people chose not to evacuate. The implication is that they got what they deserved. How horrible. People who stayed did not deserve this. In areas where evacuation was not mandatory, these people made their decisions based on many factors, and they thought that they were doing the right thing. That's just the thing with decisions; you don't know if they are the right ones until after the fact. If they were the wrong decisions that was tragic, but it still doesn't mean that these people got what they deserved.

You say that people should help themselves. Again, because of the lack of focus in this post as mentioned in my opening, I don't know if you are referring to the people affected by the hurricane or the people in the latter category mentioned above. If this is meant for the hurricane victims, I must say that people are trying to help themselves, but what exactly is it that you think they should be doing? Are they supposed to search for and carry water? Okay, but where would they find uncontaminated water? If they find dirty water, where exactly should they boil it? I guess they should boil it on the fires that you suggest they build. Fine, but where are they supposed to safely build these fires that you write about? You obviously have no knowledge of what the area in which we live even looks like. Our society is what it is. We have electricity, heat, and hot water. Should we be made to feel that we are being unreasonable when we ask that these basics be provided to us? After all, we pay for each and every one of them. Maybe you'd like to see my bills. There is no handout here.

Your suggestion that people move to higher ground and rebuild is neither reasonable nor practical. Furthermore, many of the flooded areas were in locations that weren't even considered risky ones. I guess California should not be inhabited at all because of the possibility of earthquakes, and tornado-prone areas should also be uninhabited. Do you get the idea? There is no place on this planet that is 100% safe. Unprecedented natural catastrophic events are happening with increasing frequency and in places where they had not occurred before, perhaps due to global warming. So before you think that you are so safe and secure in your little neck of the woods, think twice. You may not be so safe after all. Natural disasters can, and will, happen everywhere. Wait until it is your turn, my friends. Remember, that what you put out is what you get back. I wonder if you would want to feel some of the contempt and disgust that you spew if you were in these people's shoes.

While my neighbors and I did not suffer property damage, we did have to live without power for six days and we did, in fact, help ourselves. We bonded together and helped each other out. We survived through very cold temperatures. My mother, who has heart disease, did not have an easy time. I wonder how you'd feel if it were your mother? By the way, I learned that I can get $300.00 from FEMA to replace the food that I lost, but I won't even pursue it because I feel that I do not truly need that money and that it should go to someone who does. I am by no means anywhere near wealthy, but I can manage and would feel guilty accepting money. I can earn more of my own money. So much for me being part of a "Give Me" Society!

People with whom I speak keep saying how "lucky" they are or how "blessed" they are to have experienced only a loss of power such as I did from the hurricane, but I never say that or feel that. How can I possibly feel lucky when other people suffered such catastrophic losses? We are all part of the human condition, and when one person suffers we all suffer. Did any of you ever read John Donne? Further, to have the nerve to say that you are lucky or blessed implies that others are not lucky or not blessed, and all of the implications that go along with that sort of thinking are just too wrong to even think about.

This sort of self-righteous mindset reminds me of what people said about New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina. Some said that it was a punishment from God because New Orleans was an immoral place because of Mardi Gras. Imagine speaking for God (who has the right to do that?) and suggesting that those people deserved what they got. People sometimes say that others deserve these things because if they don't then those things can happen to them.

Don't forget that we New Yorkers and others on the east coast are pretty tough. We have lived through other terrible weather events, crippling snowstorms in particular. We also lived through 911, which, in some ways, was far more horrible on so many levels. I live only about five miles from ground zero. The ashes from everything that burned (and I do mean everything), rained down on my neighborhood. So don't imply that we are extra-devastated because we've never experienced anything like this and have had an easy life or that we have not had anything like this happen in a long time. Two years ago we had one of the worst snowstorms in history which crippled our city for days, but, alas, we survived.

To those of you who write of the terrible adversities that you've overcome, let me tell you that I have had a few of my own, but I don't look for sympathy or validation. I pretty much keep them a secret and feel grateful for having survived because they've made me stronger. I am lucky to even be alive today. I choose to work rather than to be one of those people who chooses to live off of the government. I have earned every one of my material possessions and could just as easily live without them if I had to. I have my priorities straight.

Compassion, my friends. For those of you who get the "warm fuzzies" when you watch the devastation on the news, I caution you to keep the schadenfreude in check. Happy Karma!
Cat =^..^=

Prior to retirement, I worked for the Power Company on Long Island (LILCO, to those who may be familiar with the area). I worked many a storm restoration in my years and believe me, Long Islanders are tough. They are no strangers to being without power for days on end because it's common place for the frequent storms that pass through there to wreak havoc: uprooting trees and blowing down utility poles. And being the vast, VAST majority of the power lines are above ground- pole to pole, and pole to house- it doesn't take a whole lot of wind to slap energized lines against each other which result in outages. Some homeowners would even come out and try to lend a hand. What I experienced first hand was the people in these neighborhoods- neighborhoods where pride in their homes and their community was evident, took ownership of a storm's misfortune, and they did what they had to do to get out of it with minimal negative effects.

What I remember most about those cold and windy nights were some appreciative customers offered hot drinks and maybe a doughnut or a sandwich to the restoration crews. That was a nice welcome.

Check This Out ==> The amount of homes without power jumped from 150k to a little less than 200k because of today's snow fall on Long Island. This as of Thursday (today) 2:30 DST. On top of what they're already dealing with, now this.

Last edited by sting66ray; 11-08-2012 at 10:24 AM.
Reason: added the jump in outages

What started this was the general pissed off feeling of tax dollars going down the tube! Of people not helping them selfís and yelling out about how folks are going to die out here. About people pissing and shitting in their apartment buildings hall way and stair cases (I expect that from animals). I understand that itís hard. Iíve lived through many hardships in my life as have others. Iím not down on actual Victims. The woman who lost her children I sympathize with I cannot know how that feels for I have never lost a child. (I have watched children die, and have had friends and loved ones die unexpectedly but have never lost a child. Did the victims get what they deserve? Not my call. But I do think if you live below sea level and get flooded out itís your own fault! hell there are entire "small" towns that have moved for that reason they had intelligence enough to realize it could and would happen again. yes you are correct that there is no place 100% safe agreed but when you have a weeksí notice to LEAVE a dangerous area and you donít then yes you get whatís coming. As for "After all, we pay for each and every one of them. Maybe you'd like to see my bills. There is no handout here." I care less about your bills you made them they are yours. How about your taxes? No most of us donít pay for it. I paid a little over 14,000 in taxes last year. I have no issue with helping people. Iím tired of the 20 percent that do nothing. Yet get housing food and alike for sitting on their ***, the almost 50 percent who pay no income tax but yet expect us to support them. You have missed the overall point.
As I said "I feel bad for the victims of our recent hurricane and as a civil society we should do all we can to aid the victims" and while I cannot get off work to go help I have given cash and sent items north. Thatís what we do as a society. no one is looking for sympathy from you or trying to compete over hard ship Iím just tired of the US government both sides rep and dem wasting money and a lot (Not all but many) of Americans with their hand out doing nothing for them selfís. What truly set me off was the fact that the savages where craping where they live! Was just a frustration release over our Politically correct never say anything negative waste money give away everything never hurt anyoneís feelings crappie United states society! Let me caveat this with I DO FEEL WE ARE STILL THE BEST IN THE WORLD. As my Friend (yes just 1, hmm I wonder why??)Tells me just get pissy bitchy angry at times and this was a release. I donít enjoy seeing folks in pain or trouble. But I will say cat you had a well thought out retort and I thank you for your opinion. Was this to incoherent? Oh well be safe

I can understand your feelings. With all due respect, if I "missed the point" it was because you did not make your point clearly. Your post was, as I said, not focused, as you wrote about hurricane victims and habitual government dependents and I wasn't quite sure where you were coming from.

What you've written here is not incoherent. I totally understand where you are coming from. We all need to vent and share our opinions, so vent away! I hope that, as mature adults, we can always do this in a healthy and productive way.

Now, let me express the most important thing here: I am truly touched that you've sent items and cash up north. Believe me, it's needed and appreciated. And I know that if you could, you'd probably physically help up here as well. I feel the same. It kills me that I have to go to work each day when I would truly rather be on the front lines doing something to help people put their lives back together. As a "worker bee" and a taxpayer I can't afford to leave my job because that would mean losing my job.

Again thank you for helping out. You've got a friend here in Brooklyn. (If we were in person now I'd extend my hand in a true gesture of friendship, and I hope that you'd accept it.)

Let's not forget why we're on this site. We love our Vettes. Let's hope for good times ahead for everyone.

Cat, if you need a "DRY" place to keep your Vette,after the flood , I have room! LOL!..and Voler, I agree we ve become an entitlement society of Whiners.. but devastation is another thing.. We in LA have learned long ago, if you want to live by the coast, you TAKE YOUR CHANCES and its not everyone else s responsiblity to rebuild your house..thats why ours are 12 ft off the ground now..

What started this was the general pissed off feeling of tax dollars going down the tube! Of people not helping them selfís and yelling out about how folks are going to die out here. About people pissing and shitting in their apartment buildings hall way and stair cases (I expect that from animals). I understand that itís hard. Iíve lived through many hardships in my life as have others. Iím not down on actual Victims. The woman who lost her children I sympathize with I cannot know how that feels for I have never lost a child. (I have watched children die, and have had friends and loved ones die unexpectedly but have never lost a child. Did the victims get what they deserve? Not my call. But I do think if you live below sea level and get flooded out itís your own fault! hell there are entire "small" towns that have moved for that reason they had intelligence enough to realize it could and would happen again. yes you are correct that there is no place 100% safe agreed but when you have a weeksí notice to LEAVE a dangerous area and you donít then yes you get whatís coming. As for "After all, we pay for each and every one of them. Maybe you'd like to see my bills. There is no handout here." I care less about your bills you made them they are yours. How about your taxes? No most of us donít pay for it. I paid a little over 14,000 in taxes last year. I have no issue with helping people. Iím tired of the 20 percent that do nothing. Yet get housing food and alike for sitting on their ***, the almost 50 percent who pay no income tax but yet expect us to support them. You have missed the overall point.
As I said "I feel bad for the victims of our recent hurricane and as a civil society we should do all we can to aid the victims" and while I cannot get off work to go help I have given cash and sent items north. Thatís what we do as a society. no one is looking for sympathy from you or trying to compete over hard ship Iím just tired of the US government both sides rep and dem wasting money and a lot (Not all but many) of Americans with their hand out doing nothing for them selfís. What truly set me off was the fact that the savages where craping where they live! Was just a frustration release over our Politically correct never say anything negative waste money give away everything never hurt anyoneís feelings crappie United states society! Let me caveat this with I DO FEEL WE ARE STILL THE BEST IN THE WORLD. As my Friend (yes just 1, hmm I wonder why??)Tells me just get pissy bitchy angry at times and this was a release. I donít enjoy seeing folks in pain or trouble. But I will say cat you had a well thought out retort and I thank you for your opinion. Was this to incoherent? Oh well be safe