TheBman wrote:[Holly, you know very well you can post your opinion…but as you can see, a (mostly) positive discussion has been going on about this legit question. For someone with your longevity here to simply post “I don’t see a need” could certainly cause a bit of frustration!!!!State your opinion….many have and THAT was encouraged from post one.

So you want only positive comments?

I think everyone is entitled to comment, regardless of if you think they will lurk or not. If you notice, the whole thread is a discussion. People who didn't see a need for it are coming back, re-reading others' opinions and some are changing their opinions.

The people in charge of deciding if this will move forward are reading it all. If it's good for the members of RM overall, then it is on the table. I don't think anyone is saying that its off the table.

I believe I said positive discussion, not positive comments!
I do not think that it needs to be good for the membership "OVERALL". If so, the walking section would have as many topics as the DarkSide and even THAT one caters to a select group!
So not sure why adding one more has garnered such a debate.... was there 7 pages dedicated to the Walking or Ultra section when they wanted theirs. If so, I stand corrected.

B

The MARATHON GRAND SLAM!

London Marathon April 17Boston Marathon April 18Berlin Marathon September 25Chicago Marathon October 9NYC Marathon November 6

Honestly, you all need to stop taking things so bloody personally. An idea was thrown out...put the d@mn forum up, see what happens and call it a day. If you don't want to go in there to read/post, don't. It won't take away from the current vibe on the forum because it will only appeal to a certain group and potentially a new type of member.

Seems pretty simple.

"Only through curiosity can we discover opportunities, and only through gambling can we take advantage of them."

1. People would only post in one section or another, creating some confusing segregation. I don't see that all. Depending what you want to discuss and what type of feedback you're looking for, you'd sometimes post in one, sometimes post in the other.

2. Those of us who want to attract faster runners somehow think they have something earth-shattering to contribute that we're currently missing. Speaking only for myself (as someone who would like to attract faster contributors), I expect quite the opposite. I think one of the silliest misunderstandings in the running community is that fast and slow runners are different animals, or that there's some magic recipe for running success that only the fast guys know. I've come to think that this whole "experiment of one"/ "there's no right answer" stuff is a little bit of bunk. Hearing accomplished people say they pretty much do the same stuff as the less accomplished - only more of it and better - would be very interesting and welcome... and might in fact help to bridge this perceived gap between fast runners and slow runners.

dgrant wrote:2. Those of us who want to attract faster runners somehow think they have something earth-shattering to contribute that we're currently missing. Speaking only for myself (as someone who would like to attract faster contributors), I expect quite the opposite. I think one of the silliest misunderstandings in the running community is that fast and slow runners are different animals, or that there's some magic recipe for running success that only the fast guys know. I've come to think that this whole "experiment of one"/ "there's no right answer" stuff is a little bit of bunk. Hearing accomplished people say they pretty much do the same stuff as the less accomplished - only more of it and better - would be very interesting and welcome... and might in fact help to bridge this perceived gap between fast runners and slow runners.

I fully agree with everything you wrote there. I just don't see how putting up a forum called "Racing" or whatever is going to do this. Are we really going to attract semi-elite and elite runners by putting up a new forum title?

There is a similar U.S.-based board called "Running Ahead" which does have a forum called "Racing", and I really don't see how the thread or the caliber of posters there is any different than here. They have their board split up differently than ours: http://www.runningahead.com/forums but overall the tone is pretty similar. And even if we did get higher caliber runners posting here about their races and training methods, we'd still get the detractors that say they are somehow more gifted and therefore their methods don't apply to the rest of us.

We have something special here at RunningMania, and it's not going to change with a new forum heading. I'm all for discussing speed and serious training, but we have to be realistic about what we want to be and what we are.

I've read most of the debate and don't have anything else to add that hasn't already been expressed except to say that I don't see any down side of going ahead.

That's what I think...nothing ventured...nothing gained.

Technophobe Extraordinaire"Princess" J0-JO...The Awesome Running Machine. "a precious, unique and quirky individual"...definition given by a Toronto Cop An Ever Loyal and Devoted Official Doonst Fan."In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was in me an invincible summer" -Albert Camus"Keep Going. Never Give Up." Spencer

Ok, I think I've thought about this about as long as I am going to think about, and I did actually read all the responses over my latte this morning.

I believe EVERYONE is entitled to excellent, honest, sound training advice if they want it and ask for it regardless of their past performance, giftedness, speed, etc. and that advice should be given in a respectful way with instruction and the passing of knowledge as the intention.

Maybe that is what people are looking for in this new room of the forum, a place where the expectation is that the response you will get to any question will be all of that. So if you aren't prepared, especially for the honest (even if delivered in a respectful way) then it isn't the place to ask your question.

Sometimes I think many people here give out very sound and honest advice and it is the listener that turns it into something it wasn't just because they weren't hearing what they thought the would or what they wanted.

fe.sweetpea wrote:Maybe that is what people are looking for in this new room of the forum, a place where the expectation is that the response you will get to any question will be all of that. So if you aren't prepared, especially for the honest (even if delivered in a respectful way) then it isn't the place to ask your question.

I want a place like Mr.Fizz wrote, a place I can say, man I felt slow today, or that sucked, or whooppeee I was flying today!! Without hurting someones feelings, or feeling bad myself for posting it. I can't do that now. Not sure a new area would make that possible or if other changes required

"I just hope that people look at it and say, 'Hey if this yahoo can do it, then I can do it too.' That'd be cool if people thought that. It's just a matter of putting the miles in and working. It's not so much how much talent you have. I hope." - Brian Sell.

"To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the Gift." - Pre

Apparently I am not allowed to voice my opinion, so I'm herein officially neutral on the results of this thread, and defer to the decision of the admin.

Holly, you know very well you can post your opinion…but as you can see, a (mostly) positive discussion has been going on about this legit question. For someone with your longevity here to simply post “I don’t see a need” could certainly cause a bit of frustration!!!!State your opinion….many have and THAT was encouraged from post one.

Right... when I stated my opinion you said that you were being "silenced", "as usual", followed by the head-banging. How that translates into welcoming all opinions is beyond me.

"You're an ultrarunner, normal rules don't apply to you." (Doonst)

First say to yourself what you would be; and then do what you have to do. ~Epictetus

fe.sweetpea wrote:Maybe that is what people are looking for in this new room of the forum, a place where the expectation is that the response you will get to any question will be all of that. So if you aren't prepared, especially for the honest (even if delivered in a respectful way) then it isn't the place to ask your question.

I want a place like Mr.Fizz wrote, a place I can say, man I felt slow today, or that sucked, or whooppeee I was flying today!! Without hurting someones feelings, or feeling bad myself for posting it. I can't do that now. Not sure a new area would make that possible or if other changes required

You pretty well summed up why I'd like to see this type of place. I'm not a speedster but I would like a place where people like Rob and others could feel like they can post and not feel like "they're bragging" and then feel reluctant to post. Not that there is anything wrong with "bragging" imho.

I'm still chuckling about a couple of the "bragging" e-mails I got from Robbie after his stellar performance at PEC...yep...you could taste the joy in those e-mails. I'd like to see some of that here from him and other speedsters

Technophobe Extraordinaire"Princess" J0-JO...The Awesome Running Machine. "a precious, unique and quirky individual"...definition given by a Toronto Cop An Ever Loyal and Devoted Official Doonst Fan."In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was in me an invincible summer" -Albert Camus"Keep Going. Never Give Up." Spencer

fe.sweetpea wrote:Maybe that is what people are looking for in this new room of the forum, a place where the expectation is that the response you will get to any question will be all of that. So if you aren't prepared, especially for the honest (even if delivered in a respectful way) then it isn't the place to ask your question.

I want a place like Mr.Fizz wrote, a place I can say, man I felt slow today, or that sucked, or whooppeee I was flying today!! Without hurting someones feelings, or feeling bad myself for posting it. I can't do that now. Not sure a new area would make that possible or if other changes required

You pretty well summed up why I'd like to see this type of place. I'm not a speedster but I would like a place where people like Rob and others could feel like they can post and not feel like "they're bragging" and then feel reluctant to post. Not that there is anything wrong with "bragging" imho.

I'm still chuckling about a couple of the "bragging" e-mails I got from Robbie after his stellar performance at PEC...yep...you could taste the joy in those e-mails. I'd like to see some of that here from him and other speedsters

I can still taste it, mmm sweet..... btw thanks, I just realized why I don't need another Dream Goal right now, I need to take more time to taste that one longer. It was a Dream Goal after all, Cool glad I got that figured out.

"I just hope that people look at it and say, 'Hey if this yahoo can do it, then I can do it too.' That'd be cool if people thought that. It's just a matter of putting the miles in and working. It's not so much how much talent you have. I hope." - Brian Sell.

"To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the Gift." - Pre

fe.sweetpea wrote:Maybe that is what people are looking for in this new room of the forum, a place where the expectation is that the response you will get to any question will be all of that. So if you aren't prepared, especially for the honest (even if delivered in a respectful way) then it isn't the place to ask your question.

I want a place like Mr.Fizz wrote, a place I can say, man I felt slow today, or that sucked, or whooppeee I was flying today!! Without hurting someones feelings, or feeling bad myself for posting it. I can't do that now. Not sure a new area would make that possible or if other changes required

You pretty well summed up why I'd like to see this type of place. I'm not a speedster but I would like a place where people like Rob and others could feel like they can post and not feel like "they're bragging" and then feel reluctant to post. Not that there is anything wrong with "bragging" imho.

I'm still chuckling about a couple of the "bragging" e-mails I got from Robbie after his stellar performance at PEC...yep...you could taste the joy in those e-mails. I'd like to see some of that here from him and other speedsters

I can still taste it, mmm sweet..... btw thanks, I just realized why I don't need another Dream Goal right now, I need to take more time to taste that one longer. It was a Dream Goal after all, Cool glad I got that figured out.

You're welcome...my invoice is going in the mail

Technophobe Extraordinaire"Princess" J0-JO...The Awesome Running Machine. "a precious, unique and quirky individual"...definition given by a Toronto Cop An Ever Loyal and Devoted Official Doonst Fan."In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was in me an invincible summer" -Albert Camus"Keep Going. Never Give Up." Spencer

I remember the naysayers about the Journal and Logs thread and it has been a great success. I believe that it was because there was already this element in the forum under training and it brought it together in one place and low and behold, it flourished. It is still a community section and all types of runners posted and all who were interested read and posted, elite or otherwise.

I don't think splitting the elites into a separate thread will help the RM community be a community as it would promote divisiveness and don't believe it will attract elites.

I think discussions like this one are great, they show that people care about RM and have a great deal of interest in it. That's a good thing IMHO.
Having said that, d I think we need the new thread? No. However there are other threads that I don't care about, so I don't read them or post in them. I concentrate on those that relate to me and interest me.
This new thread will happen, I can choose to read it or not. No skin of my a$$ either way. Fr those that particpate in it, I hope it's worthwhile and helpful. Enjoy!

I've been keeping out of this for 8 pages but here are my thoughts FWIW.

As someone who is not one of the uber-fast people, and someone who also does not in the least get offended when someone says they had a "slow" day when they only ran a 20-minute 5 k, I am completely indifferent on whether our RM Elites have a separate section or not.

HOWEVER, if it makes our RM Elites more comfortable to have a fast/racing section, then let's just giddy-up and do it, m'kay? Is it a lot of work to set up?

I personally doubt that having such a section versus not having one will make any difference as to whether or not elite runners will join RM. Mostly, they're running, stretching, eating, sleeping, and running some more. I suspect they have much less time than the rest of us to browse on-line running forums.

Ironboy wrote:Not to play devil's advocate, but maybe faster people need to grow pair, develop a thicker skin as it were. And the slower people need to get over themselves. Its not always about you.

Whether or not a "racing" or "competitive" forum is created shouldn't hinge on how some people react to other people's posts.

Great points.

My initial objection was not to the new section itself but the reason given for it-- the implication that discussing speed, competition, and serious training techniques in other threads was somehow taboo in the rest of the forum sections.

Are we no longer going to give straight training advice in the Training section or anything but a "pat on the back" or "Great Job!" in the race reports section?

A place for "RM elites"? I am hoping that this will NOT be the focus of the new section.

I personally doubt that having such a section versus not having one will make any difference as to whether or not elite runners will join RM. Mostly, they're running, stretching, eating, sleeping, and running some more. I suspect they have much less time than the rest of us to browse on-line running forums.

That's not exactly true. There are many who do browse and post to forums and blogs-- just not here. I agree that a new section is not going to change that here, though.

A place for "RM elites"? I am hoping that this will NOT be the focus of the new section.

For the love of teletubbies. Comments like these are why we need to kill this thread. What's wrong with the word elite? They're damn faster than I ever will be. Call them fast, call them elite, call them super-duper awesome - I don't care. But can we puh-lease stop this nonsense?

Looks like I'm going to have to take another break from RM due to the incessant silliness (that's my polite word for it). Too bad; I just got back.

A place for "RM elites"? I am hoping that this will NOT be the focus of the new section.

For the love of teletubbies. Comments like these are why we need to kill this thread. What's wrong with the word elite? They're damn faster than I ever will be. Call them fast, call them elite, call them super-duper awesome - I don't care. But can we puh-lease stop this nonsense.

I wasn't objecting to the word elite (although the fast people here don't even call themselves that).

I was hoping that people other than only the fastest people on the site might also be welcome in the new section.

I am no where near fast like those guys, yet I'm interested in talking about speed and competition.

I'd like to see a place where we can discuss real racing (like the post about the Houston Half-Marathon.

Last edited by Jwolf on Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

We have taken this request as an opportunity to re-vamp the overall way the fora/forums are organised. Nothing radical, more of a clean-up and, yes, a couple of new ones have been added to align with the various views expressed in this thread.

So, be patient. I will post the new layout once it is finalised and leave it for a day or two so people will not be totally surprised and spill their coffee on their keyboards when it happens. It will take a little time to do it anyway.

Last edited by Nicholas on Sun Jan 18, 2009 11:06 am, edited 2 times in total.

Nicholas

Events in 2018Walking, Yoga, Soccer scrimmages and whatever else I can doHip replacement on September 10....now doing a variation of the None to Run plan