No, of course today’s fake news re Labour/Brexit is not coordinated

There has been a rush of articles today in mainstream outlets on a common theme – supposed remainer horror and condemnation over Labour’s plan to continue with Brexit if successful in winning power.

So much so, that many left-wingers consider it a(nother) coordinated, establishment attack on Labour and its leader.

Of course, it goes without saying this is nonsensical conspiracy theory and couldn’t possibly be true.

Some outlets even varied the wording and used a different picture, just to put beyond doubt that it’s all entirely cooincidental that the same news went out within twenty minutes on so ‘unrelated’ media feeds:

And of course, the fact that they were all centred on fake news is irrelevant. Labour’s Brexit position hasn’t changed and was a key feature of the manifesto that saw the party win the biggest increase in vote share since 1945:

Labour’s 2017 general election manifesto on Brexit

It’s pure coincidence that all these articles contain quotes from the same dreary people saying the same dreary thing.

And it’s irrelevant that these articles omit the obvious: that to win power, as the party has a duty to the huge numbers suffering under the Tories to do, Labour cannot pour contempt on the views of the many millions of people who voted – and still want – to leave the EU.

Not only that, but in 2016 Corbyn was re-elected as Labour leader – with an increased share – promising to respect the referendum result and less than three months ago, Labour’s conference endorsed his policy to fight for a general election and negotiate Labour’s Brexit.

No, all this is complete happenstance and anyone who doubts the integrity of the UK’s ‘fourth estate’ is part of the problem. It’s the independent left media that is fake news, after all.

The SKWAWKBOX needs your support. This blog is provided free of charge but depends on the generosity of its readers to be viable. If you can afford to, please click here to arrange a one-off or modest monthly donation via PayPal. Thanks for your solidarity so this blog can keep bringing you information the Establishment would prefer you not to know about.

If you wish to reblog this post for non-commercial use, you are welcome to do so – see here for more.

YouGov which provides most of the polling of “Labour members and supporters” is nothing more than a marketing club for people who like to fill in surveys for small amounts of money. It is reliant on people who are willing to divulge all their personal information to market researchers, it is a perfect vehicle for obsessives with too much time on their hands to pretend they vote Labour in order to try and damage Corbyn. I don’t think there are enough of them to do real damage but they certainty exist, just like you get nutters giving bad reviews to left wing books on Amazon. Apart from that, YouGov doesn’t represent the views of the country as whole, it represents the views of people who like to tell strangers their personal details and do surveys for money.

Yep. Not to mention that even decent polls are just snapshots of a given moment, and aren’t evidence of any movement over time. If a second referendum were held, plugging the “they hold a vote until they get the answer they want” line would cause a surge in leave voters concerned about democracy in general. That is more or less guaranteed. And even if remain were to narrowly win (which I sincerely doubt), this would not put the problem to bed either. Far from it. It would hand UKIP and the far right the narrative they’ve dreamed about.

People need to stop seeing this as a parlour game for the middle classes.

If Labour contemplates offering anything other than remaining fully in the EU when we win power we will be decimated in a GE simply because voters will desert us in their millions, rightly saying ‘you are all the same’.

There are those who say they are Bennites and therefore want to leave. I too admired Tony Benn but I also recognise he didn’t get everything right.

It is naive to say we will bring the country together, it cannot be done (yet) and by pursuing this laudible but unrealistic aim we will kill any chance we have of improving society. If there is anyone in the Labour Party who recognises this they MUST speak up now before we go down the path of self destruction, it really is that serious.

We must not let the right wing Tories force us into a pale copy of their right wing Brexit in the hope we can appease the electorate, it is madness.

It’s not a useless strategy. It is the only one that can deliver remaining in the EU on terms the Brexiters will largely tolerate.

It goes like this.

Labour negotiates with the EU, extending the time for leaving. Corbyn comes back to the country, and explains that it has not been possible to negotiate a deal that meets Labour’s six tests, so he is going to put the decision back to the people. In the meantime, the EU have very kindly provided assurances that, if the UK were to remain in the EU, Corbyn would be able to renationalist privatised industries.

In the subsequent referendum, with the left wing argument for Brexit substantially addressed, Remain would almost certainly win.

Now of course Corbyn can’t spell out that that is what he is doing, because to do so would destroy the strategy. But I have very little doubt in my own mind that this is what is going on here.

And what a sham that would be Ultraviolet. There will be no assurance of re-nationalisation without leave to appeal. Virgin, big supporters of remain and “Best for Britain”, along with French and German operators would use the time tested manoeuvre of tying the government up in the courts, meanwhile, their friends in the media would be screaming about Labour “frittering away public money”. Vodafone developed it into an art form. Plus re-nationalisation under EU legislation can be challenged every 5 years and they have to submit to “competitive bidding”. The EU is through and through neoliberalism backed by law and we in this country stand more chance of bring that epoch to an end by changing our own government rather than 27 governments.

Nicely summed up Ultraviolet , that is my belief also , a pretty good balancing act by Corbyn , like it or not , he has to try his best to pacify all concerned and is doing a pretty good job as far as I am concerned .
Yes there are those who are staunchly one way or the other but I’d say the more nuanced approach is what JC is taking , and despite all the haranguing and abuse he is sticking to it .
I support wholly the strategy because the ultimate is a GE and a Labour Govt . Come out too strong for remain and there goes most of the support in the North , too strong bang goes the support in the South. Make no mistake the likes of the present EU is NOT on the side of the working class and unless there is a co-ordinated effort by the International Left to force it , it is highly unlikely to change , and ” being it it to win it ” will not cut it . Jumping back in without a serious re-negotiation as Corbyn is advocating , simply puts us back in the Neo-Liberal club , no advancement , no change , status-quo achieved , as desired by the establishment .

And what are their reasons for saying that “Corbyn is really useless” and “What’s the point of Labour?”? Just the Brexit strategy?

Doesn’t come across to me as anything resembling intelligent and rational discussion, not that I believe you anyway! The fact that you say as much every other time you leave a comment tells me all I need to know – ie you have an agenda. Apart from that, I respect what you have to say in your posts, as I do many of those who argue the opposite case.

The media are responsible for a lot of this trouble. Where are the people standing up for democracy in the UK? you seldom hear one word yet along with the law it’s one of the main pillars of a decent country. This is not North Korea, the people have already spoken and it’s up to politicians to do their duty.

You want ‘somehow’ to reverse the Referundum result, no harm in that if you were a Remain voter but you overlook the fact that 40% of Labour voters voted Leave. It’s a community not to be sniffed at.
I agree a GE might not be winnable and indeed there is a lot of hostility to Labour stirred up by the Rightwing; it’s often effective unfortunately and currently they have an open gaol. Labour needs the country to see the so-called Tory Rebels and the DUP vote their confidence in the Government and then refuse a GE. The Tories own the mess; it’s too late to pass it on. Notice how there is no Tory challenger to May; they’re scared stiff they might win. Who in their right minds would want to be PM over the next few months? She’s everybodies sacrificial lamb. Brexit arguments will carry on for many years, probably decades, over agriculture, fisheries, defence etc.

Ultraviolet How does Jeremy even get to be able to negotiate with the EU without getting into power first and how does he get into power by having a Tory Brexit of whatever flavour in our manifesto? It will not work. lf you think that Brexiteers can be palmed off with Brexit lite you are mistaken. Most of them as shown by even those here who profess to being on the left, want red blood.

How does he negotiate without being in power? He doesn’t, which is why all the slagging off he has had is so ridiculous.

And no, it is not a Tory Brexit that would be in the Labour manifesto but a renegotiation, possibly with a second referendum at the end of it.

And no, I am not suggesting that Brexiters can be palmed off with Brexit lite. I am saying that some will be perfectly satisfied with remaining in the EU if it does not stop Corbyn’s renationalisation agenda, as that is their main argument for voting leave. Some will be dissatisfied but willing to tolerate it. The number that would be unwilling to support it will be small and largely of the right wing tendency anyway, so easily ignored.

That is an extremely naive, monocausal analysis of voting habits. Brexit was an inarticulate protest vote against “the establishment”. People aren’t going to switch parties for it. If your analysis were true, then the Lib Dems would have succeeded in the last election. They campaigned aggressively on a Remain platform and did little else. But they didn’t succeed did they?

Perhaps there are other policy differences that people are voting on? The Tory party is dying. The question is to what extent they’re willing to drag the rest of the country down with them, and to what extent we let them.

If both Conservatives and Labour go into an election saying they would Leave the EU – why would any past Tory voter vote for Labour?
The majority of Labour voters want to stay in the EU. Why would they vote Labour if that would still mean Brexit?
I certainly won’t.
I will vote for anyone standing who is going to remain in the EU, and if that is not a choice then I will spoil my ballot paper.

Well AliB that is your choice to vote Tory if they choose to remain , thus you’d be voting for all those murderous policies inflicted on the rest of us in Society , just to remain in a neo-liberal outfit . More deaths , more kids in poverty, more cuts to disabled/vulnerable etc etc etc . Really is that what you’d vote for ?

@Alib
I understand and empathise with your frustrations but I am pointing out the self destructiveness of your statement.
It’s your statement that you’d not vote Labour if they continue to respect the referendum result. Ergo by not doing so then you’d be aiding the election of another Tory Govt ( in my view just the same as voting for them) .You further compound things by stating you’d vote for any party not supporting Brexit , that’d be the Libdems/Greens and the LD are just as bad as the Tories.The likely hood of a Libdem Govt is zero , thus a vote for them is a vote to ensure another Tory Govt.
And finally you’d just spoil your vote card , yep that’ll really help get a Labour Govt into power.
Try to think,,, to think outside the narrow confines of just Brexit and realise that Labour has great policies that will help the many and not just the few and voting for them is in your best interests , unless of course you happen to be a multimillionaire.
.

@RH Dogged reality denial isn’t. WOW just take a look at Treeeza then for that perfect example , get off his back , he is the good guy here not the enemy or are you so consumed with your desire to stay in a Neo-liberal club that you’d prefer to see no Labour Govt?

Yes – no change in Party policy and Labour SHOULD continue to respect the referendum result.

It is very good that Jeremy increasingly recognises that the EU supervision of state support to British industry is incompatible with the sort of radical state intervention in the economy which we need for a socialist Labour government. Here is an analysis is why he is right:

But by the same token it is becoming increasingly unconvincing for Jeremy and other Left figures to continually badmouth “No Deal”. In all likelihood a recourse to the “No Deal” WTO default is the ONLY way to have governmental freedom on State aid. This is because the European Commission – unelected, unaccountable and ardently neoliberal – will never negotiate any deal with any British government without insisting on EU control of British state aids to our industries.

… which implies recognising its lack of support for Brexit, and supporting another vote as recognition of its inconclusiveness, and also giving recognition to the lack of knowledge or information at the time of the first vote.

Thanks for the reminder Brad Bell. It’s pretty breathtaking how, so far, the Govt. has been able to brush this aside. I recall the forensic work by Chris Friel (occasionally posted on this site) re the AS attacks on Corbyn and Friel’s conclusions about the very high levels of coordination and orchestration that had to be involved.

In some way this IS Labour’s fault because they’ve let the People’s Vote brand enter Labour’s space unchallenged for far too long. We’ve even have politicians stating as fact Labour will go direct to People’s Vote if a no-confidence vote was lost. Labour don’t even mention People’s vote in their conference policy. Labour should have been making this clear. Like the AS smears if you don’t fight back the lies will only gain more validity. Labour have been weak in this area probably because of the trojan horse inside the leadership.

lundiel “The campaign be remainers funded in part by Soros and supported by neoliberal shills”

As opposed to the campaign bankrolled by Arron Banks which he agreed won not on facts (there is no way it could) but on emotion. Whipped up by far right propaganda about immigrants being the cause of all Britain’s ills.

It was the campaign of the right wing millionaire class posing as the saviours of the ‘working class’.

Why would I? The left had no part of the referendum campaign. It was conducted between liberals and right wingers. The campaign had very little affect on how people voted. The right wingers had 40 years of propaganda from the papers and their own prejudice to determine how they voted. The soft left liberals had Cameron’s pamphlet, sent to everyone in the country and the certainty that they would win. On the left, we fully expected remain and had no input, nor anyone to speak for us. No one was interested in hearing about the Maastricht treaty putting neoliberalism into law, except the unions, who no one listens to.

Of course you wouldn’t point it out because you wanted Brexit to win no matter what the cost or the subterfuge. It mattered not to you that the places where Arron Banks peddled his lies and nonsense via his UKIP mouthpiece were the places where people stood to lose the most if Brexit won!

Kickoff , we have a biased righting MSM ( you may have noticed this perhaps ) who will not and continues to miss-report ( LIE) or simply does not report Labours response to those who in the party ( Chukka Uppa and Co) who bang on about the PV.
I’ve had several communiques emails direct from Labour HQ detailing the response and the parties position on the so called PV , did you see any of that in the press ……… nope

Yes but it’s not about LAB vs CON is it? BBC was setup to tell the truth and I would have thought simple task of putting over the importance of democracy is a key task. So many comments fall to the side if that simple task is held up. It’s as if they want to talk bollocks every day. Come on we need an adult debate in this nation and it’s not “we were lied too” it’s “why does money buy influence”

kickoff@ Come on we need an adult debate in this nation and it’s not “we were lied too” it’s “why does money buy influence”

YES I absolutely agree with you re the need for an adult debate and I agree also regarding the question of influence BUT in the case of the BBC it has been somewhat corrupted ( to say the least ) by the Tories , so in essence it is about the COns V Lab , as the Cons have the money , contacts & power to distort and corrupt our democracy via their mouth piece the MSM .
Getting a Labour Govt in will usher in Leveson 2 as part of the commitment by Labour , that will never happen whilst the Tories remain in power.

JC, just take the power, you are brillantly read and head and shoulders intellectually above the Right Wing Tory Neo-Liberal Barbarians and Right Wing Neo-Liberal Labour lightweights.
If has to be option 2 – a left wing democratic socialist Brexit with democratic control of labour and capital supply with a customs union (on non Neo-Liberal terms) which is the first break in the chain of EC Neo-Liberalism as US Neo-Liberalism is in structural crisis and US Neo-Liberal Right Wing Barbarians are dropping like flies leaving Trump the Barbarian exposed as the political moron he is.
The problem is apart from the many Republic rich who support Trump some of the poorer and desperate exploited US working class think this exploiting Barbarian is on their side .
A temporary triumph of rhetoric over reality.
The US and every country needs a Corbyn type – left wing democratic socialists – what socialism was always meant to be.

The Observer has excelled itself. The Guardian posted an article earlier today “Remainers condemn Jeremy Corbyn pledge to push on with Brexit”. But that wasn’t good enough for that ineffable pair of ex-Murdoch journalists Toby Helm and Michael Savage. A few hours later they produced “Corbyn faces furious Labour backlash over backing Brexit”. And even better, made this stale news the headline of tomorrow’s Observer print edition. You couldn’t make it up.

The trouble with the FBPE nutjobs that attempt to ruin any political discourse on Twitter is that they think that if they scream and shout abuse at anybody that disagrees with their pro EU positions they’re somehow going to change opinions. Jack T and RH are very good examples of these sort of people and I can’t believe they have any interest in the Labour party especially when they constantly quote surveys from the discredited and useless polling organisations which claim that the vast majority of Labour supporters are in favour of remaining within the EU.

I voted Remain in the referendum because I didn’t (and don’t now) trust the Tories to protect basic workers rights like annual paid holidays but if there was another referendum I probably wouldn’t bother voting at all because I would see it as an abuse of democracy by people (like Jack T and RH) who didn’t get their own way first time round.

How about this survey that forms part of a long running academic research project into Political Party Membership in the UK.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/17/most-labour-members-want-uk-to-remain-in-single-marketOn Brexit, the survey revealed that their views are fiercely pro-EU, including that:
49% of members think there should “definitely” be a vote on the final Brexit deal, with a further 29.4% answering “more yes than no” to the question, and only 8.8% definitely opposing it.
Two-thirds of members (66%) think Britain should definitely stay in the single market with a further fifth (20.7%) saying “more yes than no” to the question. Only 4.2% of Labour members said they definitely believed Britain should leave the grouping.
There were similar levels of support on the customs union with 63.1% saying Britain should definitely stay within the group, 22.2% leaning towards the same position, and only 2.4% saying the UK should definitely leave it.

So well over 60% of Labour members support the Party policy of joining the customs union? It’s a better deal than May’s, protecting the economy while staying outside the clutches of the EU Commission. It’s the only possible solution in the circumstances. Labour got it right from the beginning. For Labour Rightists it’s their last chance to try and weaken Corbyn so now they and their media supporters (guardian, BBC, Independent, Daily Mail (!!)) try and pretend Labour policy is Remain – er, when it isn’t!

People quoting polls are wrong. 90% of the nation had no real opinion on the EU before the question was forced on them. Then with a chance to make a difference they voted to leve the EU.
Polls are pointless but even so worse then that they only take the opinions of the 10% who hold strong enough views to sign up for polls or carry an opinion.
Even on the sunniest day of the year only 700k was estimated to turn up in London, most of those travelled on free buses in for a free jolly where they were given banners and tshirt by the rich backers. That doesn’t even represent the 15m who voted remain so how can it represent the nation’s opinion.

It must be a little disconcerting for the Brexit supporters when they can’t find any polls or academic research that support their viewpoint. I suppose the question you need to ask yourself is why the Brexiteers have stopped publishing their poll results.

Well you cling onto that thought tightly if it gives you some temporary comfort, but it is not credible to argue that the likes of the ERG wouldn’t be shouting it from the rooftops if they could find any poll results that supported their cause.

It would be really a help If all politicians finally said what they mean and mean what they say.
Also I guess that population over the past 2+ years have learned of the impact of Brexit on the country and have changed their views. Are people not allowed to change their mind? Is that something only those higher up can do?
I went to an event last week to hear John Mcd speak. Brexit was raised as well. Also the remain campaign at the time, and his and JC’s approach/view to campaign to remain and reform, to make EU fairer and accountable to people.
I also think that there are a lot of regs previous uk governments could have applied that would have dealt with issues raised by people feeling unfairly treated and left behind.
Remain and reform to me seems the best solution considering the info we now have. But then also I admit to being an EU citizen hailing from the country that caused 2 world Wars. Eu has also been peacekeeping in Europe.

Undoubtedly, the MSM coverage this morning has illustrated the trap into which Corbyn has fallen with this adoption of right-wing policy over Brexit (because that’s what it is when you strip away all the cakeism and airy-fairy three wishes stuff).

The trap is giving the Blairites legs again – just look at the usual suspects getting airtime. The only similar strategic mistake by Labour was adopting the IHRA definition under the delusion that caving in is a good look. Simply wailing about the bias of the media is a bit pointless when you play into its hands.

Meanwhile the self-anointed ‘left’ of Brexit (a contradiction in terms) raise bumbling Kippers – who confuse shit, shave and breakfast time – to the status of a fake ‘working class’ royalty (a sort of damnation of the real working class by bent praise). The whole operation is that act of painting around a smaller and smaller area in an echo chamber whilst reality goes begging for leadership.

… and potential votes slip away as politics is treated as some sort of religious ritual of unchanging belief, with terms such as ‘betrayal and ‘respect’ being used as meaningless slogans, whilst the ragged-arsed followers of the sect mutter incantations to a visibly shrinking congregation of True Believers

It would be as meaningless as all the other polls conducted by remainers. Not everyone who posts here wants a Labour government, particularly under Corbyn. Polls other than exit, are propaganda tools. No wonder a few regulars here keep referring to them.

We need to get May’s cluster fcuk voted down, get A50 deferred, a GE and then let the Labour membership decide even if that’s some form of compromise.
If Jeremy comes out clearly on any side the press will have a field day. A bit like what’s happened over the last few days. The Labour party chances of winning a GE will be finished before any vote is cast. A wonder who that will suit?

@southhay Precisely ! and all those on here posting to criticise , castigate and ridicule Corbyn are complicit in aiding that outcome of a Labour Govt defeat . Keep on posting that crap , keep on carping on , keep on undermining in peoples minds who might read this who maybe undecided re JC and Labour , and you’ll have helped heaps towards the Tories and the Establishments agenda ,,, well done !

Me, my wife, brother in law, sister in law, and niece are all members of the Labour party, We have differing views and opinions on brexit.
none of us have ever been asked whether or not we have changed our minds or whether or not we want a “peoples vote”
polls are not worth a carrot, They are only a propaganda tool.

Saw a middle class man today absolutely ranting about Labour & Corbyn re Brexit.
This ‘liberal’ man (who is passionately Anti-Brexit) was wagging his finger at someone and was pretty threatening to them.
Think those around JC need to step up security around Jeremy with all the hot air around.
We should let discussion and ideas decide. although I reluctantly voted Remain (as a last throw of the dice to EC wide collectively try to kick out Neo–Liberalism) I accept the result.
And perhaps with democratic control of labour and capital supply (rights countries had before Neo-Liberalism) we can be the first as an example to break the Neo-Liberal chain.
But whatever happens it should be about ideas and verbal violence is the last resort of an exhausted mind.
That is why I am proud to wear the John & Yoko badge ‘Give Peace a Chance’.
It is possible to build internationalism in a framework of independent left wing democratic states.
Solidarity and A Merry Xmas & Peaceful New Year to All Socialists!