Ahh patience and tolerance, janus could employ you as a diplomat. On the backwards kiwi thing, I attended a year and a half of high school in
the land of the long white cloud, upon my return to the education system in Australia the next two years were a breeze, those backward kiwi teachers
had already taught me the lot. Janus does not represent the average aussie(underarm ball?) its probable he has never drank, smoked, had a bet, gone to
the footy, made love to a woman etc... Yet speaks on behalth of the average Australian? Perfect credentials for PM.

Firstly my username is Jace26, I don't know where you got Janus from?
Secondly, where did I say NZ was a backward place? All I said was that NZ has no military, and pretty much rely on Australia for their defence.
Thirdly, the "underarm incident", oh wow how exciting. Why would I be expected to know something as tiny as that when I (like most Aussies) hate
cricket and wasn;t even born then? I only read up on real history.

I do apologise Jace for calling you janus. I felt like I could hear our kiwi friends accent through typing, and now I hear your flamboyant,
hostile yet passionate communication. Jace you are expressing an opinion on subjects that are taboo in 90% of aussie conversation, hence you retreat
here to let it out. Do not put down others with an opinion. This ability to communicate may be a memory one day. PS You have made me laugh, and
therefore made my day Thanks Jace.....titzy

???
What do you mean, 90% of Australians would be against me?
This thread is speculation about a war in the middle east and its subsequent affect on Australia, where did you come up with that and why do you find
it funny?

Your ability to pick out small pieces from peoples statements and spin them, has convinced me politics is a must for you. Do you have a
fourthly? IE answer the average aussie survey. Regarding your answer to janus? Take away the j. All the mentioned threats to our shore lines are
massive consumers and providers of trade and product/services vital that Australia and sth est asia remain in balance.

Without sounding callous, I'd have to say the argument that Britain abandoned Australia in WWII because they weren't able to provide equal support
to the 60,000 Australians who you say fought for the UK in WWI is very unfair.

WWI was fought in France, but at no point was England seriously imperiled. Moreover, Australia was not threatened in any meaningful way in WWI. In
WWII, England was struggling for its very life, and the possibility of German invasion of their homeland was much greater than the possibility of
Japanese invasion of Australia, especially in 1941.

To be a fair comparison, you would have needed a scenario where England wasn't at war in the west, and to see if British forces from Europe would
have been employed in numbers against the Japanese. Given how vigorously Churchill wanted to keep the Empire, I'm fairly certain he would have done
so, absent the existential threat of the Nazis.

I'm sure that many of the members of the Commonwealth in the East felt as Australians did, but if anything, I think WWII showed the inability of
Britain to defend her own Empire. Not being there is substantively different from abandoning you.

Originally posted by cassandranova
Without sounding callous, I'd have to say the argument that Britain abandoned Australia in WWII because they weren't able to provide equal support
to the 60,000 Australians who you say fought for the UK in WWI is very unfair.

WWI was fought in France, but at no point was England seriously imperiled. Moreover, Australia was not threatened in any meaningful way in WWI. In
WWII, England was struggling for its very life, and the possibility of German invasion of their homeland was much greater than the possibility of
Japanese invasion of Australia, especially in 1941.

To be a fair comparison, you would have needed a scenario where England wasn't at war in the west, and to see if British forces from Europe would
have been employed in numbers against the Japanese. Given how vigorously Churchill wanted to keep the Empire, I'm fairly certain he would have done
so, absent the existential threat of the Nazis.

I'm sure that many of the members of the Commonwealth in the East felt as Australians did, but if anything, I think WWII showed the inability of
Britain to defend her own Empire. Not being there is substantively different from abandoning you.

Australians fought and died for the British Empire in WW1, so in fact we did come to your aid, however in Australia's darkest hour Britain really
spat in our faces (theres no other way to put it).

Actually whether you realise it or not, Australia was in MUCH greater peril than Britain in WW2. Hitler wanted to defeat Britain but at the same time
called it a tragedy since two great races were fighting against one another when they should be working together. Hitler wasn't intending to wipe out
the native Britons, however, the Japanese were intent on forcing ALL Europeans out of south east asia.
This included Australia and they were intent on eliminating us too.
Up until WW2 most Australians saw themselves as British, however, immediately following the betrayal in WW2 it took a turn in the opposite
direction.
I actually have a thread running right now titled "Battle For Australia", go and watch the videos then tell me Australia was in no danger.

Jace, be quiet please, how could you continuously insult New Zealand when we are the "New Zealand" to the United States in comparison of military
capabilities. Everyone would be laughing at you, secondly I would give my life to defend the beautiful, honest and LOYAL country of New Zealand.

To the threads point, there's a fine line between patriotic statements and down right facts. There is no way in hell we would be able to fend off a
Chinese invasion, it would be end game and if anything we would be annexed.

Unless the US send several fleets and a few hundred thousand troops ASAP and we managed to somehow receive or manufacture another 20 million guns and
2 billion rounds of ammunition. Then magically increase our naval fleet significantly in the few months we would have plus air force and train 5
million young men and woman and have the armed vehicles of all sorts to support them.

Don't get me wrong, I am a patriotic Australian also and would be the first to volunteer to defend. But it's almost a lost cause unless we were
magic and truly important to our "allies".

Jace, be quiet please, how could you continuously insult New Zealand when we are the "New Zealand" to the United States in comparison of military
capabilities. Everyone would be laughing at you, secondly I would give my life to defend the beautiful, honest and LOYAL country of New Zealand.

To the threads point, there's a fine line between patriotic statements and down right facts. There is no way in hell we would be able to fend off a
Chinese invasion, it would be end game and if anything we would be annexed.

Unless the US send several fleets and a few hundred thousand troops ASAP and we managed to somehow receive or manufacture another 20 million guns and
2 billion rounds of ammunition. Then magically increase our naval fleet significantly in the few months we would have plus air force and train 5
million young men and woman and have the armed vehicles of all sorts to support them.

Don't get me wrong, I am a patriotic Australian also and would be the first to volunteer to defend. But it's almost a lost cause unless we were
magic and truly important to our "allies".

Please show me where I insulted New Zealand as I am not aware of what you are referring to?

However, I agree with your statement on a Chinese invasion which is the very reason I created this thread, if you are interested I have also created
the thread "Battle For Australia". Please go there and tell me what you think.

Jace, be quiet please, how could you continuously insult New Zealand when we are the "New Zealand" to the United States in comparison of military
capabilities. Everyone would be laughing at you, secondly I would give my life to defend the beautiful, honest and LOYAL country of New Zealand.

To the threads point, there's a fine line between patriotic statements and down right facts. There is no way in hell we would be able to fend off a
Chinese invasion, it would be end game and if anything we would be annexed.

Unless the US send several fleets and a few hundred thousand troops ASAP and we managed to somehow receive or manufacture another 20 million guns and
2 billion rounds of ammunition. Then magically increase our naval fleet significantly in the few months we would have plus air force and train 5
million young men and woman and have the armed vehicles of all sorts to support them.

Don't get me wrong, I am a patriotic Australian also and would be the first to volunteer to defend. But it's almost a lost cause unless we were
magic and truly important to our "allies".

Please show me where I insulted New Zealand as I am not aware of what you are referring to?

However, I agree with your statement on a Chinese invasion which is the very reason I created this thread, if you are interested I have also created
the thread "Battle For Australia". Please go there and tell me what you think.

Go back to your posts made in response to the New Zealander who commented that there country would be there to back us up. You laughed in his face,
said they got nothing and that's basically an insult, I would $^&t my pants if I came face to face in a life or death situation with a New Zealand
SAS soldier (I'm sure I wouldn't even get the honour too see his face), I'm sure the Chinese would too.

And I will look at that thread, I'm very much interested in the defence of Australia during World War 2. S&F for the topic produced here.

Oh, that. Yes another member said that to which I stated, "no offence but NZ's military is virtually non-existant".
That is not an insult, even the guy agreed with me so I don't see what the problem is?

Oh, that. Yes another member said that to which I stated, "no offence but NZ's military is virtually non-existant".
That is not an insult, even the guy agreed with me so I don't see what the problem is?

I don't know about you, but when foreign people say to me that "Australia's military is non existent radda radda radda" I get offended, I agree
with it, but it does offend me. No idea why. Never mind, I don't want to argue. I'm going to go watch some of the videos posted on your other
thread.

Oh, that. Yes another member said that to which I stated, "no offence but NZ's military is virtually non-existant".
That is not an insult, even the guy agreed with me so I don't see what the problem is?

I don't know about you, but when foreign people say to me that "Australia's military is non existent radda radda radda" I get offended, I agree with
it, but it does offend me. No idea why. Never mind, I don't want to argue. I'm going to go watch some of the videos posted on your other thread.

But Australia has close to 90,000 troops atm, NZ has bar none except for their sas.
I am merely stating the truth, and other people agreed with me. While some may say Australia has no military because of its small size, compare us to
Canada who has twice our population and you realise we really pack a punch. Whereas in all honesty NZ has no tanks, no fighter aircraft, no army, no
navy, etc.
But thanks for taking the time to watch the videos and please comment there and tell me what you think.

It would be hard to come at the outcome of an actual invasion, whether it be from China, or even Indonesia.

First of all, regardless of where an invading force would attack from, they would have to cross their troops over some of the harshest deserts in the
world. Regardless of size and training, I think that would be a daunting prospect for any army. Take into account some of the deadliest critters on
the planet that no outside force would be prepared for also, and the task becomes that much more difficult.

The main keys for an invasion of any sort is what purpose invading and holding a foreign land would serve to the aggressors. Australia is largley
resources (iron, gold, oil, uranium to name just a few), all key components in running a war machine.

The second is agriculture. Australia is largely, due to the abovementioned deserts and large tropical regions, has a large food source to sustain an
invading army. The problem there is much of that resource is spread out over millions of acres, not something an invading army would want to be doing,
chasing cows all over the outback for food instead of maintaining their hold on a populace bred to survive here.

Lastly is a staging ground to project attacks toward the main aggressors, in this case, the continental US. Australia would be closer than China, but
with the advent of continental bombers, most would be able to leave from bases in eastern China, hit the west coast of the US, and make a return trip
home. In reverse, the Chinese could take Australia to prevent the US using it as a staging ground or forward post, but considering the US has major
forces in Japan, South Korea and Hawaii, this would be pretty pointless and unneccessary.

I really think an invasion from China, or even Indonesia, regardless of their numbers compared to ours would be a logistical and costly nightmare for
very little gain in the long run. Besides, every person born and bred here would waiting at the edge of the water with whatever weapon they could find
to repel an army, even if it was a lost cause to do so. Why? Because we're Aussies. It's what we do.

Lastly, while the New Zealand Air Force has little actual air power since retiring their A4Gs a few years back, they do have 2 Anzac class frigates,
of the same design as the 6 Australian FFGs, and the Seasprites they carry do actually pack a punch with fairly modern onboard weapons. The New
Zealand army is more geared toward fast attack with ASLAVs and SAS troops, and rapid deployment with UH1H Hueys still in service. While it wouldn't
exactly take much to overpower New Zealand's forces in a real firefight, you wouldn't walk away from that fight without at least a bloody nose for
your efforts.

One thing is certain, no war will happen. The US cannot dare go to war against China and Russia combined. China and Russia will not allow any attack
on Iran and hence the US will just be left with rhetoric but no action. Same with North Korea.

Just had a look at the map of Australia, The great barrier reef is some protection on the east coast, and I don't think paratroops would be used,
soon get dehydrated if lost in the bush, the peninsular to the right of the gulf of Carpentaria would be non defensible so a line from the bottom bay
shore straight across the peninsular would be my bet.
In any case modern wars take three months to plan, and a month to execute, so depends who is first out of the starting gate, so to speak.

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