3-28-11 - DC note: Dennis
Samson came along with me to interview the Armstrongs. Anne was a psychic
whom a lot of people from the SFZC saw in the late sixties and onward. She
got to be fairly well known. She died in 2010.

Below are an introduction to
their
interview with Michael Toms on New Dimensions Radio and an excerpt
from the Grofs' book Spiritual Emergency.

11-26-12 - Removed here a quote pulled off the web in
2002 because it was from
Ann M Armstrong
(Medium/Healer/Private-Sittings) in England and not the Anne Armstrong
interviewed here. I think it's Anne. Got an email yesterday from
Ann M pointing out my careless error. My apologies to her and to England.
Have emailed her about another quote I'll use if it's the right person.
Can't tell.

***

A heads up on
this interview, though I find the history, the connection to Watts, and a
lot of the details interesting, neither Anne nor Jim have strong memories
of Suzuki Roshi and the most interesting part of this interview is when I
ask her to do a psychic reading on him, to contact him beyond the ashes.
If that's all you want, go here. For those of you
who realize that psychic readings are a bunch of nonsense at best or
criminal fraud that should be prosecuted to the full extent of laws not
yet passed until Randy gets his
way, you can stop reading when you get to the
Psychic reading starts
here notice.

DC note: The tape starts with the
Armstrongs asking me about myself.

DC: I live in
Sebastopol. And I remember you all
from Tassajara and Page Street. I
donít remember exactly where or when. I was there at Tassajara from the
very first, when ZenCenter bought it. I did the Dining Room
every year. So, I always met all the guests. I remember people, guests and
students, talking about readings they had with you Anne. I remember when
Yvonne Rand brought Dick and Virginia Baker to see you.

AA: Oh, yeah.

DC: I remember what
you said, some of the things you said to them. Iíve been to psychics some
in my life. My mother would send me to them to check them out. She went to
Arthur Ford, the medium too. I knew Fred Kimball very well. I donít know
if you know who he is.

AA: Oh, Yeah.

DC: He just died. He
was in his nineties.

AA: Is that right?

DC: Oh, he died a
few years ago. We stayed in touch for twenty-five years. I loved Fred.
Anyway, I found your website and thought it would be good to get in touch.
Hereís a book that I did on Suzuki Roshi. A little book of vignettes. [To
Shine One Corner of the World, now published by Shambala as Zen Is
Right Here]

AA: Oh, yeah. A
lovely man.

DC: I did a big
biography, too. This oneís a little better as a gift. So, Iíd just like to
hear from both of you, whatever you remember that you want to share about
Suzuki Roshi, about Zen Center, any background, how you ended up there,
what you did. Any memories you have.

JA: Well, I remember
how we got involved with the Zen
Center. You probably do, too (looking at Anne). We started when Alan Watts
came to Sacramento, when we lived over there. I remember after he was in a
Unitarian Church
or something. You know, how they go down in the basement and have tea and
cookies and coffee and everything after the meeting. So, we were down and
Alan had just talked. Gee, I thought heís an interesting guy. So, I got
down there and I thought-he never said anything about how you ever get to
hear him again. Alan wasnít much into advertising. So, we got down there
and finally I got up to him and I said, ĎMr. Watts, how do we ever get a
chance to, you know, listen to you again sometime (laughs).í

He said, ĎOh, I
donít know. Iím kind of connected with the ZenCenter.í He was just very casual
about it. At some point he said, ĎWell, sometimes I have small groups on
my houseboat in Sausalito.í So, we just kept pulling it out of him and
finally found out how you make contact to come to the houseboat. So, once
we made contact with Alan, why then, naturallyÖthey had just bought
Tassajara. [made the down payment]

I remember, we went
to another lecture in San Francisco down in the Haight Ashbury or some
place down there, where Alan was the featured speaker. And the proceeds
were all going to go to this new Tassajara Zen
Center. And I remember seeing the paperwork and it said they had to pay
$300,000 for this place. These people gotta be crazy! Where the hell do
they think gonna raise $300,000? I mean, they havenít got a chance in hell
of paying that thing off.

DC: Heh, heh!

JA: Little did I
know! Man, that was when Zen was really taking off. So, then we found out
about 300 Page Street. So, thatís where we ran into Rand
and Öwhatís his name that became the roshi?

DC: Dick

JA: Dick,

AA: Dick

JA: And all the rest
of the gang. ÖI really think that Buddhism changed our lives.

Because, at that
point when Anne and IÖprobably about mid-SixtiesÖmust have beenÖ

DC: Well, Page
Street, we bought in November of í69. But, Tassajara we bought in December
of í66.

JA: Okay, thatís
when we met Alan. Right at that time. Because every time he did a benefit
it was to help pay off Tassajara. Youíre right. It was after Tassajara.
Where was the Center of things before they bought Tassajara?

DC: Thereís a
Japanese Soto Zen temple called Sokoji on Bush Street.

AA: OHHH! , sure.

JA: Sure. I used to
go there to sit very, very early. Thatís right.
Judith Weaver took us. You know Judith?

DC: Sure.

JA: Ok.. I remember
we went there with Judith Weaver and sat there and remember we went back
to her place at lunchtime after the sit there that afternoon.

AA: Yeah.

JA: But, anyhow,
after we met Alan, he had four weekends of Mahayana Buddhism. And we were
just barely starting to understand something about Buddhism. We were kinda
off-beat Christian mysticism types. You know what I mean? We had read some
Rosicrucian material and stuff like that. And of course we were brought up
as Christians.

DC: Did you ever
read any Emmett Fox?

JA: Oh yeah.

DC: I was raised on
Emmett Fox type Christianity.

JA: So, weíd read
all that kind of stuff. By that time weíd run into reincarnation. Of
course, that made sense. So, when I was a kid I had run into Theosophy.
So, I had a basic understanding of that. But, nothing like what we got
with those four weekends with Alan on Mahayana Buddhism. Iím telling you,
when we came out of those four weekends, our life was so scrambled, that
everything we had ever believed was stood on its head. Iím not kidding
you, I bet it took us a year to recover. So, it was the best thing that
ever happened to us. It made us really sit down and think. So, by that
time, weíd become well acquainted with Alan. We were starting then to,
well, I guess really Buddhism changed us and Tassajara changed my life,
because I went down there in about í69 and Anne had a workshop at Esalen.
So, I dropped her off at Esalen and then I would go on over to Tassajara.
I stayed over there a week.

And then I came back
and picked her up. Iíll never forget. I walked into the office at Esalen
in the dining room and ran into some of the people that we knew there. Of
course, electric razors donít run worth a damn on kerosene, so I had a
weekís stubble on there, you know. And they said, ĎOh, youíre growing a
beard.í I said, ĎHell no, I just havenít been able to shave for a week.í
So, I went on home and got in the house and my daughter said, ĎWow, Dad,
thatís great! Youíre growing a beard.í I said, ĎIím not growing a beard. I
just havenít had a chance to shave.í ĎOh, yeah, it looked great. You canít
shave.í ĎWhat do you mean I canít shave?í She said, ĎI will get up in the
middle of the night. Iíll turn the hi-fi on. Iíll keep you awake all
night, if you shave.í I said, ďChris, you gotta be crazy. I canít go to
work looking like this.í Well, you know, I sat there for a week thinking
about my life. I felt there had to be a better way to live my life than
the way I was doing it. So, well, as a matter of fact, we had finally
built the booster that got the guys to the moon. So, you know, we were
pretty deep into rockets of all kinds, both tactical and...I started in
Southern California and I ended up in Sacramento.

DC: Uh, huh...

JA: So, we were
building tactical as well as for NASA to get themselves on the moon. So
anyhow, I just told them I want out. So, I went about a month later to my
boss who said, 'Mr. Armstrong, are you bucking the system?' I said, 'What
do you mean, Eleanor?' She said, 'You know, everyday your hair gets
longer, your beard gets longer, your ties get louder'...

[DC and JA both
laughing]

JA: So, about once a
month I would go talk to the Vice President and I said, 'Look, I want
out.' 'Oh no we got lots of guys around here. If anybody's gonna go.
There's a lot of guys around here. You just go back to your desk and
relax.' So, once a month I'd take my little journey up there. Finally, one
day I said, 'Look, this place, you gotta lay off some people. And I said,
why don't you lay me off. There's a guy down there that can handle my job.
Heís got a wife and three kids. He's bought a new house. And I said, 'He
needs a job worse than I do. Give him my job and let me go. And finally
the next spring they let me go. So I quit. And then, while I guess it was
a few years of rambling around and then Anne and I start doing workshops.

DC: You and Anne
were already together?

JA: We'd been
together since the day she turned 21.

DC: What year was
that?

JA: 1940.

DC: And how old were
you that year?

JA: Born in '16. So,
I was 24.

DC: What's your
first memory of coming to Sokoji?

JA: Well, so as soon
as I had that week down there. I spent a week down at the Center.

DC: You mean
Tassajara?

JA: At Tassajara.
Then I came home, quit my job and then I immediately applied for a month.
So, I went back in about April.

DC: Is this '69?

JA: of '69 or '70.
Went to Tassajara. Yah, like April of the following year. I think it was
'69 I went down there in the summer and then the beginning of '70 then I
think I went back to Tassajara. So, I went back then for a month.

DC: So, I was there
then.

JA: So, I stayed
there a month and they gave me a job in the woodshop.

DC note: Here heís
talking about some opportunity to learn Japanese carpentry or to go to
Japan to do so, maybe something that came up at Tassajara.

JA: ...go to Japan
and learn how to build, learn Japanese carpentry? I'm tellin' ya', that
was a hard thing to turn down. Boy, I know I came home and talked to my
family, boy that was a rough thing to give up, because I could have really
loved to have done that.

DC: Now, was Anne
with you when you were in Tassajara?

JA: No, no. I could
have stayed there forever. Anyhow, then I came home and then I kinda hung
out and doing various things for the next few years and then in the summer
of í76, Anne and I started doing workshops together. And weíre still doing
them. I think one of the highlights of my trip at the ZenCenter was the Roshiís wife
invited me for a tea ceremony. And that was great! That was really a
treat. So, I came back then later in the fall. I went to a nine-week
live-in pottery workshop and I came back to Tassajara at the end of the
summer. I remember when weíd go pick all the pears that were left on the
trees and that had fallen on the ground and brought back a truckload back
there?

So I came back then
for another couple of weeks. Thatís when I finally decided I was not going
to go to Japan. I would have loved to have been there.

DC note: Heís
jumping around in time Ė mentioned 76 and then back to when Suzukiís still
alive in 70 or so. No biggie.

JA: So, anyhow, then
Anne started getting more acquainted with the roshi. So, you can kinda
tell him what your connection with the roshi was.

AA: That was a long
time ago.

JA: Yeah, I know.

[Phone call interrupts here. Someone's got a problem]

JA: Thatís what you
get for liviní so damn long. Waitingí to have all the friends we got are
all dyiní or somethiní happeniní to Ďem. Take oleí Ram Dass, you know, of
course I guess heís gettingí in much better shape though.

DC: Heís doiní
alright. I saw him recently.

AA: Did you?

JA: Heís lives right
here someplace in San Anselmo.

AA: I didnít spend
anytime in Tassajara.

JA: No, you didnít.
Your contact with him was, cuzí I remember one time when we were together
and he said to you, Öa lot of people used to come to her, you know, for
counseling. So, she went and talked to him one day. I remember you saying
that you had told him that you were a little embarrassed, because she
said, ĎI donít want to interfere with their spiritual work.í He said,
ĎLook, you take care of their psychological aspect and Iíll take care of
their spiritual aspect. He said, ĎDonít worry about ití. And he was always
gonna come see her, but he never, never got around to it.

DC note: I would say
that Suzuki was not at all interested in psychic readings but he wouldnít
have been hostile to the idea, just would have been polite and then
forgotten about it. He wasnít interested in any sort of interpretive
system whether it worked or not Ė including psychology. He said he was
interested in astrology as a young man but then decided maybe it wasnít
necessary to know so much about yourself. Iíd say that his way was to
encourage people to tune into their own intuition.

DC: Heh, heh. I bet
Yvonne wanted to take him to see you.

JA: Yeah, she was
one of Anneís clients.

DC: Yvonne used to
introduce him to a lot of people on the outside.

AA: Where is she
now, do you know?

DC: Sheís in MuirBeach.

AA: Oh really.

JA: Yeah, sheís just
up around the corner here.

AA: Is she still
involved with the Center?

DC: As a friend and
adviser. Sheís has her own center at her house with her own students.

AA: She does? Oh my
goodness. I didnít know thatÖ

JA: Just around the
corner.

AA: So, I donít know
that thereís very much I can add to that, because, like I said, I didnít
have that much contact with him. The only concern I had was the fact these
students would come to me and I got really embarrassed about that. But, he
said, ĎThatís alright. You need to do both things.'

DC: When did he say
it was alright? Where were you?

AA: Oh my GodÖwhere
was I?

JA: What we used to
do when weíd come into the city, lots of time we would stay at 300 Page
Street in the extra rooms they had there. So, weíd stay there and weíd go
to sit in the morning and we had contact with the roshi at that point. So,
weíd probably be doing one of those sessions and then we got to know Baker
very well. And he was one of Anneís clients.

DC: That would have
been later.

JA: Yeah, it was
later.

AA: Where is he now?
Do you know, David?

DC: Colorado and
Germany. He just had an operation for prostate cancer in Germany. [cancer
has not returned Ė dc, 3-11]

AA: Jeez. Is he
still involved with Zen Center?

DC: He has his own
center.

AA: He has his own.
So, everybodyís kinda split off and doing their own thing then, huh?

DC: He was abbot of
the ZenCenter for oh, 12 years, and then he got
into an impasse, Iíd say, with people, and he went off and started other
groups. I see him a lot. Do you have any memoryÖdo you remember when you
met Suzuki Roshi?

AA: When could we
have met him? You see I ended up going down to the ZenCenter in Southern CaliforniaÖ

JA: Yeah, she lived
there for three months.

AA: with RoshiÖthe
one that died.

DC: Maezumi?

AA: Maezumi, yeah.

JA: YeahÖshe wanted
to go some place where nobody knew her, because thatís her problem is that
she got all burned out and she said I gotta go some place. And so, we both
agreed that she needed to go some place and we looked in all the kinds of
retreats we could find. We finally found Maezumi down in Los Angeles. So,
went down there and checked that out and she agreed to stay there. So, I
said Iím gonna write a check for 3 months. I want you to stay at least 3
months, until youíre ready to come home. Until you really feel liked
youíve gotten rested up. So, she went down there and she said Iíll come
under one condition and that is nobody knows who I am. She said, I do not
want anybody to know who I am. So, she totally denied when anybody would
sorta say, ĎArenít you Anna?í ĎNo, my nameís Anne. I donít know who Anna
is.í She stayed down there for 3 months. She got to know Maezumi pretty
well, because when that whole damn scandal came out she was right in the
middle of it.

DC: Oh, really?

JA: Oh yeah, she was
right in the middle of that one. The roshi, he and his wife wanted an
interview with her. So, she did that. But, she said I wonít talk to you
without your wife. The two of them talked to her. Maezumi was ready to put
her on the payroll. He said, I would just like to be able toÖ(laughing)Öto
consult with you whenever Iíd feel like it. Anne says I donít want to run
your ZenCenter, you know. He says, ĎIíll talk to
you at random.í

AA: He was a nice
guy. Really gentle. It was easy to be with him, even though he was such a
big figure.

JA: He was a nice
person, all right. So finally, what we agreed to do at the end of her
three months, we agreed to stay on for a couple or three days and do a
workshop. So, we did a workshop for the whole gang for two or three days
after she was all done.

DC: Now, let me ask
something. I just want to see if I can get some further impression of
Suzuki Roshi from each of you. If you remember when you first saw him or
if you have any impression of him or any memory at all. I mean, you donít
have toÖbut, so far neither one of you have said much of anything about
him.

AA: Well, my
impression of him was that he was very down to earth. He was a roshi. I
mean, you could approach him at any time and he would sit and talk with
you. So, it was very easy to be with him. You didnít feel like you were
interfering. I doní t know that he had that much to say and that he was so
involved with his own students, but Jim met his wife. I never met her.

DC: Oh, yeah. Sheís
doing fine. I just got a letter from her. She just sent me $50 to buy a
gift for my younger son.

AA: Where is she?

DC: She moved back
10 years ago. Sheís in Shizuoka. South of Tokyo near where she came from.
Near Suzuki Roshiís temple. You know, like 30 minutes from it or
something.

JA: She was a very
lovely person.

AA: See, I never got
to meet her, I just met the roshi. You donít have that much contact with
him.

JA: But, thatís it.
I had contact with him at a distance every day for a month or more. Six
weeks or so. When weíd stay at the Zen
Center. As far asÖ

DC note: This
transcript which I didnít do, has some weird glitches in it. Maybe itís
cause of the tape being turned off and on, but where Jimís statement above
cuts off and Anneís below begins, they ran right into each other without
it saying that Anne was talking. Maybe itís a file problem. Maybe I still
have the tape and can figure it out later but itís not important. I can
remember what happened which was I enjoyed all the history and background
but I kept trying to get them to say something more about Suzuki and they
didnít have much to say except general positive things and then Jim would
get off on something else which was fine - so I remember thereís nothing
very descriptive missing. I didn't really care how much they did or
didn't remember about him, I just wanted to get that part out of the way
and see if I could get a psychic reading on him from Anne. So with the
tape off I guess, I asked Anne if sheíd contact Suzuki, see if she could
get a psychic reading on him. She said sure and I turned the tape back on.

AA: So, I get the
feeling that heíll be upstairs someplace, you know. Wherever it is that
where we go. Heís kinda looking down on the scene and also kinda looking
at his situation where he was at the Zen Center.
What is he thinking? (pause)

Well, one thing that
heís telling me is that he felt very honored being a part of the Zen
Center and having been given that particular responsibility. And he said,
when he first got into it, he said he felt very humble, that - what was it
he could do for the people there? Then he said, after a while, he said
somehow he became very, very comfortable and was delighted to experience
himself with being like a part of the family or part of a group of
students who he had down thereÖ

What else is going
on? [Sheís asking him here]

Kinda wondering what
happened after he died. What happened to the ZenCenter, because he felt very
connected to it. And almost responsible for advancing the process of the
ZenCenter. And he said, (pause), he said he
had so many people that ran the place, so that he didnít feel like he had
that much responsibility, but he was just simply a part of the group of
people that were there.

He says I donít have
any trouble tuning in to the other side. He says, that every now and then
he kinda like peeks in to see whatís going on with the Center and with the
students. He says, heís very gratified with what he sees, because so much
of the time he can literally look into their hearts and see that the
people there are very dedicated. Not necessarily to him, but to the Center
itself. For that, he says he feels somehow he did start something that
continued on in a way useful for the students.

OkÖwhat else do you
want to say? (pause)

He says that heís
certainly enjoying the other side. But , he also misses the contacts with
the world and with the students that are here. So, he says every now and
then heís really inclined to tune in to one or another of the students,
just to see whatís going on with them. He knows it, but he says theyíre
kinda like my kids. I really appreciate being around them and hearing what
they have to say.

What are you doing?
(pauseÖAhhhÖAhhh)

But, he says the
work goes on, he says, because you know when you die you donít just stop.
He says, you carry this energy with you to the other side and it feels
like very strong positive energy to me. So, that whatever you have been
doing here, it seems to be like a pull to go back in to stay involved with
the kind of energy that he was very much involved with here.

He says, that
getting involved with that Center, getting this done...I guess I can give
myself credit for that. I donít think thatís being egotistic, but then he
says thereís a long way to go, but thereís always more to do, but if you
like, I do at some level stay in touch or look in on the lives of the
students - you know, that he was touched in a deep way.

So he says, letís
say, that I kinda live on both sides. Here I donít have a body, like on
earth, but Iím in touch with the emotions and he says, like I could
describe the landscape here. So, he says itís almost like somehow when you
die, you get rid of that limitation and there is a flow of energy from one
place to the other. And he says, so letís say that I live in both places.

DC note: I remember
Anne saying that she experiences landscape when she does readings like
this.

AA: And he says,
heís also very delighted that youíre doing this. Like putting some of his
life down into a book. He says, youíre telling me, showing me, I feel kind
of embarrassed, because he says, who am I? I was not that important. But
he says, whateverís written about me is also very much appreciated.

But he says, really
the main thing I want to say is I travel between the two worlds, because
many times he says he was part of the service. Not in the body, but in
spirit. Heís there, when theyíd have the service at the ZenCenter. So he says, Iím very happy
to be remembered in that particular way.

Then heís showing my
something interesting. He says, that from the time that when he was
little, he said he didnít know what it was that he wanted to be, but he
says, it had the word Ďreligioní involved. In other words, he felt that he
was gonna end up doing something that had to do with God, religion. And he
says, and so, he thinks that energy pulled him into the ZenCenter and thatís where he
established himself. And he was very, very proud that he was able to do
this.

And he says, that
what can be done over here? Like, oftentimes he will be assigned or
assigns himself to welcome those that have died. And literally has the
opportunity to introduce them to that other realm that is so different
from the realm that we live in here.

And he says, I still
havenít forgotten my teachings. I havenít forgotten the kind of dialogue
that is useful for someone that has just crossed over. So he says, thatís
basically what he does is to somehow introduce the ones that are dying,
introduce them to that other side. Iíve seen the other side so many times,
he says, Oh, itís just an absolutely fabulous place! Like mountains and
colors and sounds. He says, heís in the midst of that and he says, itís
not a bad place to be.

DC: Heh, hehÖ

AA: Not bad at all.
He says, I donít know what his assignment might be. He says, I havenít
received an assignment yet, so he doesnít know how long heís going to stay
in this particular place. But, heís still greeting manyÖ and he says,
kinda like how frightened people are when they make the crossover, because
theyíre catapulted into a new world. And so he says itís up to him. He has
made it his job to greet those that are newly come to that place. And to
sit down and to talk to them and to calm them down and to tell them that
you still continue to grow. So, thereís just a shift of energy from here
to there. And heís delighted to do that. Because, he loved what he did and
he has worked with a joy again. So, he says, that somehow he is continuing
that work. But, he says, when I do that, I speak from the heart not the
head. Itís a whole different way of being there. But, he says, the
dialogue comes from the heart.

(pause) hmmm. Well,
he tells me his main job is to welcome the people that have died recently
and to calm them down and to let them know this is not a scary place. It
Ďs a welcoming place. And, you will recognize people there that you have
known here that have made the crossing.

And, he says,
sometimes there are little groups that get together and discuss and talk
about what their life was like on the earth plane and how different it is
there. He said, theyíre all following the attitude that theyíre missing
something. Like theyíre there, but the world made such an impact on them,
that they feel like somehow they left something very valuable behind. He
said, itís his job to tell them that itís a very normal transition for us
to make. And how we begin here, what we see here is one thing , but we
move into a whole other level.

He says, the energy
there is very refined. He says, itís not heaviness, not dense like we feel
ourselves to be here. But, he says, itís very light, very airy. Itís
almost like air, you donít walk, you float. You just think moving, and you
move. And he says, of course the landscape is beyond anything you can
possibly imagine. Hmmmm. So, he says, thank-you for wanting to make a
contact with me.

DC: Could I ask a
question?

AA: Mmm hmm.

DC: Does he have
anything to say about Dick and what happened with Dick? Dickís leaving ZenCenter and all that?

AA: Look, what heís
showing me is that, you know, when youíre here, you have a certain level
of thinking and associating with this. Once you leave the earth plane-the
things that happen here just donít matter. And what heís telling me is
that everybody has their own destiny and each one of us fulfill our own
life the way we need to. But, he says, itís a whole different world. Itís
just like thatís one world and where heís at is an entirely different
world. So, he says, there really isnít much relevance. And for sure, he
says, thereís no criticism. Thereís simply accepting the new ones that are
dying and making them comfortable. But, he says, itísÖhmmmÖhe says,
hopefully we have learned from the mistakes that we have made. But, he
says, over here there is no judgment whatsoever. When you go over there,
itís just like you start out clean.

Well, thatís about
it. Suzuki says, you know, he certainly isnít judging him. Everybody does.
People think they need to do it. So he says he has no judgment. Suzuki
says thereís no judgment for anybody.

DC: Well, thatís the
way he was when he was alive, too.

AA: A lovely man.

DC: In terms of this
work that I do Iíve beenÖThis isnít all I do, but Iíve been collecting the
oral history, and did the biography and I have a lot more Iíd like to do
on it. I donít think itís the most important thing in the world, but itís
seems to me that sort of the way Bosworth collected Johnsonís history,
that I want to get it to a certain level. I like to do things well. I
would like to complete them. I know he already said that he appreciated
that. But, also itís like a real burden to me. So, I would like to keep
going and just wanted to see.

AA: Let me think a
little, if you want to keep going. Mmmmm. He says, once we die we leave
the human part of our selves behind us. There really shouldnít be any
connection left with that part of ourselves.

(what are you
telling me?)

He says, for
heavenís sake, I wasnít perfect either. So, I had no right to judge
anyone. And he says, he is delighted that you are doing the writing,
because he says looking back on his life he would like to feel that he
made some kind of an impact on the people that he connected withÖOf course
he did.

DC: Yeah.

AA: He said, he
feels like itís an honor for him for you to be doing this. Hmmmm.

(anything else?)

You know, I see him
surrounded by children, little, well, how little I donít know, but theyíre
maybe, the ones that have died, they are six or seven years old. Itís
almost likeÖ

(what are you
doing?)

First of all,
welcoming them.

(What else?)

He says, I have
classes. I have classes. I see him and I see a bunch of the young ones
that have died. Itís almost like he says getting them in touch with their
souls. Getting them in touch with who and what they really are. Not just
this body that they lived in.

DC: Hm, mmm.

AA: Heís really
quite delighted with the work that you are doing.

He has a job. He
doesnít want to come back very soon.

DC: Heh, heh, hehÖ

AA: Too much work to
be done on the other side. Thank-you for coming and being with us. Itís
really an honor to have you and I can feel his chest, like his heart is
beating very rapidly, you know. Joy not sadness. But with Joy.

And he also says,
that his wife was such a blessing to him. That if any of us ever come
across her in our present life to let her know that.

DC: I'll tell her.

AA: That somehow she
was such a blessing.

DC: Iíll write her.
Iím in touch with her.

AA: Are you really?
Oh, wow! he says. He says, sometimes we forget to give thanks to those
that have the deepest meaning to us. He says, because of her, I knew love.
I really, really knew what love was about. Mmmm. She had such a big heart
and such a good mind. And took such good care of me. He would like to have
her know it.

What part of Japan is she in?

DC: Sheís in Shizuoka. A little south of
Tokyo near where his temple was.

AA: You were very close to him?

DC: Yeah.

AA: Well, I think thatís all I have to
say. Iím half here and half there. Itís like when I look into the other
realm itís like we got one arc in here, but like I see a spread of
flowers. And the mountains are green. And the sky is ever changing. I mean
itís a beautiful scene on the other side. Wow! Thereís a lot of Joy on the
other side.

DC: Wouldnít that depend on the being?

AA: Absolutely! Iíve been to the other
side, too! Iíve peeked into Hell, too and thatís not good. So, itís
whatever our deeds are, they take us to the place where we belong. But,
heís busy doing his work, you know. Joyous to me. Itís like the soul work
it never ends, you know.

DC: Well, maybe you should let him go.

AA: Yeah, yeah, I just want to thank-you
for coming. Mmmm.. Leave now.

JA: Mmmmm. Nice.

AA: Are you married?

DC: Iím divorced a year ago. It was sorta
like my third major relationship ended after 16 years, but we have an 11
year old, so I see her about every day. I see my ex-wife every day, we get
along really well. And, Iíd like to get re-married. Iím not used to living
alone.

AA: I wouldnít want to live alone.

DC: Iíve got so much to take care of.
Thereís so much I try to do, but you know. I imagine something will
happen.

AA: Yeah.

DC: Itís not a good thing to try and
push.

AA: No, it has to happen in itís own
time. No, I donít think thereís anything else I have to say.

DC: Well, let me just ask you if I might
about, like I did to Suzuki Roshi, like I said this work Iím doing is
very, I love doing it, itís like a real burden, Iíve spent lots of time
and money on it. I have a lot of debt. Iím probably going to have to sell
my house soon. Thatís not the worst thing in the world. I have a lot of
resources. I sell the house I can pay all my debts. You know, Iím writing
on other stuff, too. But, the center of all of it is doing this oral
history and this lecture archiving. One reason is because there is so much
misunderstanding, that I feel that a really big oral history would help to
clarify things. People tend to have a lot of ideas they make up and
superstitious ideas [interesting choice of words for this interview] and
theyíll glorify him and Iíve shown a lot how he was just a person that had
a lot of faults. But, so many memories from people who said this and that,
but having you see what Iím doing, do you have any advice or-I donít mind
just depending on myself, but if you have any advice, suggestions.

AA: Just keep speaking from the heart.

DC: Hmmm, mmm.

AA: Always, let that be your guide.
Whatever your heart tells you to do. Because that really creates that
connection between the two of you and thatís what he wants anyway.

DC: Hmmm, mmm. So, you think, speaking
from the heart, you think this is going to work for me, like in a
practical sense to keep doing this?

AA: Doing this?

DC: Doing this oral history, working on
the lectures, interviewing people.

AA: Yes. Itís a good thing youíre doing.
We die and we donít really know what the person was about. So, your work
and Michael Toms work.

DC: I know him. Heís one of the people
that suggested I do that book of vignettes about Suzuki.

AA: Oh, is that right?

JA: Iím glad you mention Michael. He
wants another interview and weíve just been so busy, that we just kept
putting it off and he said sometime when youíre down in the condo Iíll
want to come down, because otherwise we live up in Amador County.
He did come up there and stay all day up thereÖa few years ago.

DC: Heís interviewed me, too. Thatís New
Dimensions Radio.

AA: Theyíre a nice couple.

DC: Whatís his wife name?

JA: Justine

AA: Justine

DC: Justine

AA: Iím not good on names. Energy, yeah,
but names are something that escapes me. Well, I certainly appreciate
having made the contact with him.

JA: Itís not something that you would
just sit down and do.

DC: You know, one thing I was thinking of
doing is having Suzuki's hand writing analyzed. Have a very good hand
writing analyst do it. Do you know any?

AA: No, I donít . But, I think that would
really be interesting.

DC: I grew up around stuff like this. One
of my motherís best friends would invite me over and then sheíd have a
hand writing analyst there, not just a graphologist but a graphoanalysist.
And Iíd write and heíd talk to me about it and explain and it was very
nice. Hand writing analysis is so interesting. Havenít done any since then
though.

AA: Weíre always telling on ourselves. We
donít realize it, but we are all the time. Very interesting.

Follow-up call 1-21-02

DC note: I called Anne and said that just
like in his life, Suzuki had ignored his kids in that reading. Iím going
to write to his widow, but doesnít he want to say hello to his kids?

AA: Of course, of course, of course, do
that he says. Heís embarrassed and embarrassed he spent so little time
with them. His congregation was always more important. They felt ignored.
Heís jumping up and down saying, ďDo that!

Poets develop a relationship with the Muse, artists are
often "seized" by inspiration, inventors claim ideas just "came to them,"
and musicians are sometimes born knowing how to play. What they are all
using is intuition, and Anne Armstrong is a psychic extraordinaire, and
claims inspirational intuition is available to us all, whether you are a
stockbroker, a computer technician or a bus driver: "Most people who are
successful in some activity in the world are using their intuitive
abilities, though many are not aware of it. We donít have to wait for it
to Ďcome to usí either; we can invite it in." Find out how to get
intuition working in your life; the answers are closer than you think.

The late Anne Armstrong, who passed in the spring of 2010,
was the psychicís psychic. She used her extraordinary psychic gifts in
transpersonal counseling and training of professionals to develop their
intuitive capabilities. She is survived by her husband, Jim Armstrong,
(married for 70 years), who is a former engineer and lifelong student and
teacher of esoteric disciplines. Together, they taught thousands of people
in workshops and personal readings.

Topics Explored in this Dialogue:

How to develop your intuitive abilities

What are practical applications for intuition in daily
life

Whoís more intuitive-men or women?

How successful people use intuition

What is the connection between intuition, psychic ability
and spirituality

Anne Armstrong writes about her own experiences of Psychic Opening in the
book [Spiritual Emergency (Grof & Grof 1989)]. After she experienced her
initial awakening, she had to train for about six years before publicly
practising. She has found that the channeller or clairvoyant can access
different levels or depths of awareness and transmission within the
"subtle realm". Some are very low, mundane levels where information is
trivial and entities are spiritually underdeveloped. Other levels reveal
information beneficial to the highest good and associated entities are
highly enlightened. A lot seems to depend on the psychological clarity of
the psychic and the extent of their training and personal development. She
states:-

"...I have found that the more I cleared up my own psychological
problems, the better the quality of the lecture material became. I also
believe it is the reason I have not had an unpleasant experience in this
area for fifteen or twenty years.

I feel that humanity can obtain a lot of help from this more subtle
realm if it will prepare itself to receive that help. But it takes
discrimination. Material received from the psychic realm must be judged
just as critically as (or more so than) that from more mundane sources.
The unscrupulous entities in these etheric realms will take advantage of
personality weaknesses of the budding sensitive. Our mental institutions
are full of examples. The less blatant examples are the corner psychics
that will solve all your financial, marriage, sex, professional, and
spiritual problems for anywhere between $5 and $250...

...I want to say again that this is an area for discrimination,
examination, and skepticism. Budding psychics are not messengers from
God. They are just members of the human race who for one reason or
another have glimpsed a realm beyond the physical reality. Since most
people want someone to solve their problems and tell them how to live
their lives, the budding psychic has a fertile field to till. So many
people are just waiting to feed their egos and give them all the power
they will accept. If one begins to open up psychically, the information
received should be used discreetly to improve one's own life. If one
becomes a significantly better person as a result of psychic/intuitive
abilities, one can then consider sharing with othersóif asked to share."

69-09-01 - SFZC
Board notes. Mainly talk about the new building, 300 Page St., preparing
to move in there, who will do so. Anne Armstrong wants to come to
Tassajara as a student last week of September. OK if she doesn't do any
readings. Anne was a well-known psychic a number of students including
Richard Baker saw