The neighborhood residents and their respective Neighborhood Association are two totally different things. Most NAs have their own agenda, set by their (usually self-appointed and unelected) board members. It's also no secret that they are very hostile to things a modern functioning city should have, like local retail and bike lanes. All in the name of protecting their free parking and restricting development to prop up their own home values.

Agreed 100%. I don't really care one way or the other about Prato Bakery but having lived in two different neighborhoods of Jersey City, I didn't feel that either NA represented my or even the majority of the neighborhood's interest. They were largely led by loudmouths who couldn't get elected on the city council to save their lives. Instead, they would become leaders of these NAs to get the attention they so desperately craved, showing up at every council meeting and grilling the council members with question after stupid question, making the meetings go four hours or longer when those of us who only want to hear about a few things or ask one question have to go to work tomorrow. They never spoke for me, or the neighborhood, just for themselves and what they thought was good for the neighborhood by virtue of having living in it so long.

In fairness, the NA in one neighborhood did organize social events from time to time and they did a good job of that. That's what NAs should do to help improve the area, but instead they just take up time at city council meetings and think they represent everyone in their neighborhood, when they don't - not legally or in any other way.

VVPA does do many social events, which they do a good job with and I'm glad that they do.

Look at their agendas and meeting minutes though - it's almost entirely centered around either a) fighting some development/variance b) parking c) going after businesses for whatever reason or another.

A good many of the trees in our neighborhood were just butchered and cut down (on Barrow St.) with no replacements, completely ruining the look of the block. There are a good deal of empty tree pits and lots of opportunities to create many more. The VV neighborhood has much better architecture than Paulus Hook, IMO, but PH just looks better because of the tree density. Why is the VVPA not raising hell with the city over this? This is a big quality of life issue and affects property values via curb appeal.

Also - there's a good chunk of sidewalk on Montgomery between Grove and Barrow (in front of an abandoned looking building, though a sign on the door says its not) that's literally crumbled away and is a health hazard. Where is the VVPA in getting the city to go after these deadbeat property owners? Someone could literally trip and get injured because of this.

Not to mention allllll the issues with litter/trash in the area. I've had to go after the city myself to get more of those public receptacles put in place to reduce this. VVPA didn't lift a finger to help. No, they spend their energy bitching about parking and trying to run out new developments they don't like.

This is definitely off topic and not related to Prato, but this is one of the many problems I have with these groups.

The neighborhood residents and their respective Neighborhood Association are two totally different things. Most NAs have their own agenda, set by their (usually self-appointed and unelected) board members. It's also no secret that they are very hostile to things a modern functioning city should have, like local retail and bike lanes. All in the name of protecting their free parking and restricting development to prop up their own home values.

Agreed 100%. I don't really care one way or the other about Prato Bakery but having lived in two different neighborhoods of Jersey City, I didn't feel that either NA represented my or even the majority of the neighborhood's interest. They were largely led by loudmouths who couldn't get elected on the city council to save their lives. Instead, they would become leaders of these NAs to get the attention they so desperately craved, showing up at every council meeting and grilling the council members with question after stupid question, making the meetings go four hours or longer when those of us who only want to hear about a few things or ask one question have to go to work tomorrow. They never spoke for me, or the neighborhood, just for themselves and what they thought was good for the neighborhood by virtue of having living in it so long.

In fairness, the NA in one neighborhood did organize social events from time to time and they did a good job of that. That's what NAs should do to help improve the area, but instead they just take up time at city council meetings and think they represent everyone in their neighborhood, when they don't - not legally or in any other way.

The neighborhood residents and their respective Neighborhood Association are two totally different things. Most NAs have their own agenda, set by their (usually self-appointed and unelected) board members. It's also no secret that they are very hostile to things a modern functioning city should have, like local retail and bike lanes. All in the name of protecting their free parking and restricting development to prop up their own home values.

Agreed 100%. I don't really care one way or the other about Prato Bakery but having lived in two different neighborhoods of Jersey City, I didn't feel that either NA represented my or even the majority of the neighborhood's interest. They were largely led by loudmouths who couldn't get elected on the city council to save their lives. Instead, they would become leaders of these NAs to get the attention they so desperately craved, showing up at every council meeting and grilling the council members with question after stupid question, making the meetings go four hours or longer when those of us who only want to hear about a few things or ask one question have to go to work tomorrow. They never spoke for me, or the neighborhood, just for themselves and what they thought was good for the neighborhood by virtue of having living in it so long.

In fairness, the NA in one neighborhood did organize social events from time to time and they did a good job of that. That's what NAs should do to help improve the area, but instead they just take up time at city council meetings and think they represent everyone in their neighborhood, when they don't - not legally or in any other way.

I agree the original concerns were about a bar in that building, but the City satisfied those concerns. You have now made gross and false assumptions as to color of potential 'noise makers'. A perfect example of how false your narrative is were the concerns about an Irish pub in a residential neighborhood on Mercer Street a few years ago. Late night noise has no color.

The remaining concerns pertain to commitments made to HP that the owners are now trying to amend, irrespective of who the tenants are.

I look forward to Sol Azteca being closer to me than it is now.... once they sort out the historic concerns.

Right now the VVPA is trying to prevent a Mexican restaurant from opening up, because their board and old timer members are scared of brown people congregating.

False. Absolutely false. The issue at 328 Montgomery Street pertains to historic preservation and changes made by the owner of the building, not the new tenant.

Before any plans even got submitted to the city, VVPA railed against having any commercial space in there altogether. Then of course when they found out what the intended use was (originally new space for Hard Grove Cafe) VVPA members made up doom and gloom scenarios of raucous nightclubs. This would not have happened if a French restaurant or Irish bar were being planned. The VVPA is intent on limiting and driving out businesses from their neighborhood that don't meet "certain criteria". That is a fact.

The owner's botched plan gives them a nice deflection point, but even if everything were in order with historic/city guidelines, they'd find some other reason to rail against it.

dr_nick_riviera wrote:The OP (squeeg) seems quite elated they're leaving and is lauding the HPNA, indicating they had something to do with this decision.

So they drove out a very popular bakery that closes in the early evenings that most of the neighborhood really enjoyed. Wonderful. I hope the NA is happy with the hair salon/real estate office/some sort of preschool they'll wind up getting in its place.

I think you misunderstand squeeg's post.

Let's note that squeeg speaks for squeeg. Not for anyone else in JC, not for residents of the neighborhood, not the HPNA. S/he didn't even mention the HPNA. S/he said "Harsimus Cove community."

Squeeg also wasn't attacking Prato, s/he was attacking the landlord. From the post in question:

"Dear Prato - we love your coffee and your baked goods and we do wish you much luck in your new location....it was never about you or your products. It was always about your landlord who we punched in the nuts for their douchiness... "

Things have been good with Prato for well over a year now. The most recent news, as you can see in this very thread, is that Prato and/or the landlord tried to change the zoning from Cafe to Restaurant, which would allow a business there to apply for a liquor license. That was denied, but Prato did get a variance to expand from 20 seats to 34.

No one in the neighborhood has said or done anything opposing Prato since then. No one has tried to drive them out. Again, the owner said he liked being a part of the neighborhood. Despite a few issues, they've been good neighbors overall.

Or are you saying that people in the neighborhood buying coffee and sandwiches from Prato was a devious plot to kick them out of the neighborhood...?

The neighborhood residents and their respective Neighborhood Association are two totally different things. Most NAs have their own agenda, set by their (usually self-appointed and unelected) board members. It's also no secret that they are very hostile to things a modern functioning city should have, like local retail and bike lanes. All in the name of protecting their free parking and restricting development to prop up their own home values.

So while I'm sure if you polled random passerby they'd say they love Prato, but the NA board has its own agenda and its members by and large do not represent the community. Most do not even post meeting meetings or agendas (at least not in a timely manner) and when you question this, you get told to either shut up or show up to the meeting. Right now the VVPA is trying to prevent a Mexican restaurant from opening up, because their board and old timer members are scared of brown people congregating. They've also effectively blocked a development for several years and wasted a ton of city money on court and legal fees.

Any other part of the city would be begging for these types of businesses and developments to come in and most residents here want them, but these associations of old, rich white people (and their ringleader Yvonne) are dead set on driving them out.

dr_nick_riviera wrote:The OP (squeeg) seems quite elated they're leaving and is lauding the HPNA, indicating they had something to do with this decision.

So they drove out a very popular bakery that closes in the early evenings that most of the neighborhood really enjoyed. Wonderful. I hope the NA is happy with the hair salon/real estate office/some sort of preschool they'll wind up getting in its place.

I think you misunderstand squeeg's post.

Let's note that squeeg speaks for squeeg. Not for anyone else in JC, not for residents of the neighborhood, not the HPNA. S/he didn't even mention the HPNA. S/he said "Harsimus Cove community."

Squeeg also wasn't attacking Prato, s/he was attacking the landlord. From the post in question:

"Dear Prato - we love your coffee and your baked goods and we do wish you much luck in your new location....it was never about you or your products. It was always about your landlord who we punched in the nuts for their douchiness... "

Things have been good with Prato for well over a year now. The most recent news, as you can see in this very thread, is that Prato and/or the landlord tried to change the zoning from Cafe to Restaurant, which would allow a business there to apply for a liquor license. That was denied, but Prato did get a variance to expand from 20 seats to 34.

No one in the neighborhood has said or done anything opposing Prato since then. No one has tried to drive them out. Again, the owner said he liked being a part of the neighborhood. Despite a few issues, they've been good neighbors overall.

Or are you saying that people in the neighborhood buying coffee and sandwiches from Prato was a devious plot to kick them out of the neighborhood...?

I don't know what squeeg knows, but it sounds like it's the landlord who has chosen not to renew the lease. Prato has been doing a good business for quite some time now. Just last month, the owner of Prato was saying he liked being part of the neighborhood, and knowing their regular customers:http://jerseycityeats.blogspot.com/20 ... et-vendor-prato.html#more

I see no indication that the neighborhood chased them out.

Perhaps that's not the case and if so, I'll stand corrected. The OP (squeeg) seems quite elated they're leaving and is lauding the HPNA, indicating they had something to do with this decision.

So they drove out a very popular bakery that closes in the early evenings that most of the neighborhood really enjoyed. Wonderful. I hope the NA is happy with the hair salon/real estate office/some sort of preschool they'll wind up getting in its place.

I don't know what squeeg knows, but it sounds like it's the landlord who has chosen not to renew the lease. Prato has been doing a good business for quite some time now. Just last month, the owner of Prato was saying he liked being part of the neighborhood, and knowing their regular customers:http://jerseycityeats.blogspot.com/20 ... et-vendor-prato.html#more

I see no indication that the neighborhood chased them out.

Perhaps that's not the case and if so, I'll stand corrected. The OP (squeeg) seems quite elated they're leaving and is lauding the HPNA, indicating they had something to do with this decision.

So they drove out a very popular bakery that closes in the early evenings that most of the neighborhood really enjoyed. Wonderful. I hope the NA is happy with the hair salon/real estate office/some sort of preschool they'll wind up getting in its place.

bodhipooh wrote:I just don't understand... if what you seek is a suburban lifestyle, move to the burbs and leave city life for those who can hack it. Complaining about noise, and lights, seems incredibly petty.

Meaning what, exactly? Living in an urban neighborhood means you want drunk and disorderly people yelling at each other outside your window at 2AM, puking on your stoop?

Peace and quiet in an urban neighborhood is a virtue, and all too rare.

Plus, bars don't get to violate noise and parking ordinances just because they got there first.

I don't know what squeeg knows, but it sounds like it's the landlord who has chosen not to renew the lease. Prato has been doing a good business for quite some time now. Just last month, the owner of Prato was saying he liked being part of the neighborhood, and knowing their regular customers:http://jerseycityeats.blogspot.com/20 ... et-vendor-prato.html#more

squeeg wrote:NEWS FLASH....PRATO BAKERY IS CLOSING AT THE END OF 2017!!!

Their lease was not renewed and as a result they are moving to a different location in Jersey City with more foot traffic.

I am soooo proud that the neighbors in the community and Harsimus Cove made sure the zoning board understood their grievances were about quality of life and privacy against the buildings landlord and not about Prato, coffee or baked goods!

BRAVO TO THE HARSIMUS COVE COMMUNITY FOR STANDING YOUR GROUND!

We will be sure to take the same fight to the front lines when a new tenant tries to move in and the landlord tries to do the same thing, although now that the "cafe law" is written in JC code the rules are clearly defined...

Dear Prato - we love your coffee and your baked goods and we do wish you much luck in your new location....it was never about you or your products. It was always about your landlord who we punched in the nuts for their douchiness... Prato was dragged into it because the landlord was not honest with you about the zoning laws before you moved in.

The landlord figured that because they are tight with the Mayor they could bully their way through without heading to the zoning laws and they used Prato to try and get their way. Good for you Prato for moving to a better location...!

Epic fail by the landlord!! (we're watching you)

Good luck Prato!!

To be continued...

XOXO

Congratulations Harsimus Cove...

The NA NIMBYs claim another scalp. These worthless organizations need to be dissolved.

Seriously... I am not sure what's worse: the NIMBY types that monopolize NAs at the moment (usually old timers that look upon newcomers with disdain and mistrust) or the recent newcomers that want a suburban lifestyle in a massively dense urban city.

Case in point: several PAD residents are raising a ruckus over the new building in the Metro Plaza parking lot because it has "bright lights" on its exterior... Complaining about lighting in an urban environment seems like so silly, but those people are not the worst...! A large cohort at The Oakman is actively working to try and shut down O'Hara's because, well... it's a bar. And, bars have patrons that can sometimes be a little loud. Never mind that O'Hara's has been there for a LONG time, and that these people CHOSE to move into a building that abuts a bar.

I just don't understand... if what you seek is a suburban lifestyle, move to the burbs and leave city life for those who can hack it. Complaining about noise, and lights, seems incredibly petty.

squeeg wrote:NEWS FLASH....PRATO BAKERY IS CLOSING AT THE END OF 2017!!!

Their lease was not renewed and as a result they are moving to a different location in Jersey City with more foot traffic.

I am soooo proud that the neighbors in the community and Harsimus Cove made sure the zoning board understood their grievances were about quality of life and privacy against the buildings landlord and not about Prato, coffee or baked goods!

BRAVO TO THE HARSIMUS COVE COMMUNITY FOR STANDING YOUR GROUND!

We will be sure to take the same fight to the front lines when a new tenant tries to move in and the landlord tries to do the same thing, although now that the "cafe law" is written in JC code the rules are clearly defined...

Dear Prato - we love your coffee and your baked goods and we do wish you much luck in your new location....it was never about you or your products. It was always about your landlord who we punched in the nuts for their douchiness... Prato was dragged into it because the landlord was not honest with you about the zoning laws before you moved in.

The landlord figured that because they are tight with the Mayor they could bully their way through without heading to the zoning laws and they used Prato to try and get their way. Good for you Prato for moving to a better location...!

Epic fail by the landlord!! (we're watching you)

Good luck Prato!!

To be continued...

XOXO

Congratulations Harsimus Cove...

The NA NIMBYs claim another scalp. These worthless organizations need to be dissolved.