Order of Business.

Thursday, 2 June 1994

Dáil Éireann Debate
Vol. 443 No. 6

Page of 68

[1202]The Taoiseach:It is proposed to take Nos. 6 and 14. It is also proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that (1) No. 6 shall be decided without debate; (2) No. 14, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion at 4.45 p.m. and the following arrangements shall apply: (i) the opening statement of a Minister or Minister of State and of the main spokesperson for the Fine Gael Party, the Progressive Democrat's Party and the Technical Group shall not exceed 30 minutes in each case; (ii) the statement of each other Member called upon shall not exceed 20 minutes in each case and (iii) a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon not later than 4.35 p.m. to make a statement in reply and (3) The Dáil on its rising today shall adjourn until Tuesday, 14 June 1994.

An Ceann Comhairle:Is it agreed that item No. 6 be decided without debate? Agreed. Are the proposals for dealing with No. 14 satisfactory and agreed?

Proinsias De Rossa:This matter is obviously an important one which deals with the question of the Third World debt but given also the importance of the current crisis facing TEAM Aer Lingus, will the Government agree to providing one hour for a debate this afternoon on this issue so that the Minister responsible for TEAM Aer Lingus can make a statement in the House about what he is doing to ensure that the jobs and the company will survive?

An Ceann Comhairle:Let us dispose of this item first, Deputy, and then perhaps the matter to which you advert——

Proinsias De Rossa:I am asking now because we are at the point of approving the running of the Third World debt debate up to 4.45 p.m. I am asking that the last hour of today's business be provided to deal with the TEAM Aer Lingus crisis given that the Dáil is not sitting [1203] next week and, as I understand it, the company has set a deadline of 8 June——

An Ceann Comhairle:I find it difficult to relate to the matters, however——

Proinsias De Rossa:The Taoiseach might respond and indicate whether the Government is willing to provide time.

An Ceann Comhairle:Perhaps it is a matter for the Whips. It is distinctly a separate matter. It should not lead to argument now, Deputy.

Proinsias De Rossa:I am not arguing.

An Ceann Comhairle:The Deputy is raising a separate matter.

Proinsias De Rossa:The Chair will agree that I am in order in raising this matter.

An Ceann Comhairle:It is doubtful. As I said, the Deputy is raising a separate matter. How the Deputy can relate that to the matter before the House is difficult to understand.

Proinsias De Rossa:I am in order in raising a question about fixing a time limit for the debate on Third World debt. I am asking if the Government will provide an hour today for a debate on the crisis facing TEAM Aer Lingus which affects 1,800 jobs and the survival of an important company.

An Ceann Comhairle:I have heard the Deputy.

Proinsias De Rossa:Given that the House will not sit next week and a deadline of 8 June has been set by the company, will the Taoiseach indicate if he is prepared to allow a one hour debate? We would like to hear what the Minister hopes to do to save the company.

An Ceann Comhairle:The Deputy is clearly seeking to circumvent the ruling of the Chair.

[1204]The Taoiseach:At this stage the Government do no regard it as helpful to have a debate but, if that changes, we will come back to the House later. The Government is as concerned as anybody else about the loss of jobs or the potential job loss in TEAM Aer Lingus. The matter is being delicately handled at present and I do not think a debate in the House would in any way help towards resolving the serious problems that exist. They are not problems which a debate here will resolve.

An Ceann Comhairle:Are the proposals for dealing with item No. 14 satisfactory and agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for the Adjournment of the House to Tuesday, 14 June satisfactory? Agreed.

Mrs. Owen:Yesterday on the Order of Business and on other occasions the Taoiseach announced he had relinguished all involvement with the family company C & D Foods.

An Ceann Comhairle:I have admonished Members——

Mrs. Owen:Can he explain how his photograph appears in this week's Business and Finance with his son at a promotion of C & D Foods?

An Ceann Comhairle:I have asked Members to conform to my ruling. The Deputy may not argue with me. The Deputy must put down the magazine.

Mrs. Owen:I will put it down.

An Ceann Comhairle:The Deputy must refrain from mentioning the matter.

Mrs. Owen:We were given information yesterday which now appears to be untrue.

Mr. Dempsey:Is the Taoiseach not to have his photograph taken now?

An Ceann Comhairle:The matter to [1205] which the Deputy refers has been the subject of extensive debate.

Mrs. Owen:The Taoiseach told us he relinquished all involvement in the company and now we see that in 1991, which is within the last four years——

An Ceann Comhairle:The Deputy must hear the Chair. The Deputy may not challenge me in this fashion.

Mrs. Owen:The Chair must also protect us.

An Ceann Comhairle:Do not reflect upon the Chair in that fashion.

Mrs. Owen:The Chair must protect us from hearing information that is not borne out by photographs like this.

An Ceann Comhairle:I have said on many occasions that if serious charges are to be made against persons inside or outside the House it must be done by way of substantive motion. It cannot be done by innuendo and accusation across the floor of the House. I will have no more of it.

Mr. B. Ahern:The Taoiseach cannot have a photograph taken with his family any more.

Mr. G. Mitchell:Look what happened to Charlie Haughey.

Mrs. Owen:If the Taoiseach had said this outside the House I would not raise it here but he said it in the House——

An Ceann Comhairle:The Deputy must resume her seat.

Mrs. Owen:It is under the protection of the Chair that I am asking for clarification of information given to the House.

An Ceann Comhairle:The Chair has many people to protect in the House.

Mrs. Owen:The Chair must protect us. [1206] and there seems to be evidence that the Chair only wants to protect the Government side. The Chair must protect this side of the House also.

An Ceann Comhairle:Deputy, resume your seat.

Mrs. Owen:Will the Chair let the Taoiseach answer?

An Ceann Comhairle:No. The matter is out of order.

Mrs. Owen:Why not? He raised the issue in this House. Why is the Chair protecting him?

(Interruptions.)

An Ceann Comhairle:Does the House want an adjournment now? The Deputy has accused the Chair of partisanship. I repudiate that. The Deputy must withdraw that remark.

Mrs. Owen:My Leader raised a number of questions the other day and none of them was answered. Here we have an example of something that does not bear out what we were told.

An Ceann Comhairle:I have had enough.

Mrs. Owen:The Chair may have had enough but we deserve the protection of the Chair also.

An Ceann Comhairle:The Deputy is reflecting upon the Chair in a serious manner.

Mrs. Owen:I am, because the Chair will not allow the Taoiseach to answer. The Chair allowed him to speak on the Order of Business yesterday.

An Ceann Comhairle:These are disgraceful tactics.

Mrs. Owen:I am sorry if the Chair thinks so.

[1207]Mr. G. Mitchell:The disgrace is over there.

An Ceann Comhairle:I have informed Members of the House on many occasions, personally and by letter, how we should proceed at this time. No Member can imply they are not aware of the proceedings on the Order of Business, yet we have this constant defiance. Certain Members take the view that they can raise what they like on the Order of Business. I disabuse them of this notion. They cannot raise these matters on the Order of Business. It is disorderly to do so and I cannot have it.

(Interruptions.)

Mrs. Owen:Absolute nonsense.

Mr. G. Mitchell:What about the dagger Deputy Haughey got? It is nothing like the Jaguar that Deputy Reynolds got. Morning after morning Deputy Spring comes into this House——

An Ceann Comhairle:The procedures must be obeyed.

Mr. Callely:This is a disgrace.

Mr. G. Mitchell:This matter will not go away. It is time we had a proper debate in this House.

Mrs. Owen:No questions have been answered.

Mr. Callely:It is disgraceful behaviour.

The Taoiseach:There are no votes in that game. Come off the stage.

Mr. G. Mitchell:What happened to open Government?

Mrs. Owen:The Tánaiste is hiding his head in shame.

[1208]An Ceann Comhairle:It seems to me that Members——

The Taoiseach:Respect the Chair.

Mrs. Owen:The Taoiseach does not respect it very well.

An Ceann Comhairle:——are in flagrant violation of the procedures on the Order of Business. They know that and the Chair is accused of partisanship when he applies the rules.

Mr. Lenihan:They are only a rabble; they are not an Opposition.

(Interruptions.)

Mr. Callely:Can the Taoiseach not be seen promoting Irish companies?

Mr. G. Mitchell:It has reached the stage where we cannot call a spade a spade.

An Ceann Comhairle:If the Deputy standing has a relevant matter to raise I will hear him, but I will not hear him on the matter I have ruled out of order.

Mr. M. McDowell:As regards promised legislation, I understand we were promised legislation last night by the Tánaiste in relation to nationality and citizenship. Do not tell me it was not promised.

An Ceann Comhairle:Was legislation promised?

The Taoiseach:No.

Mrs. Owen:There is a split already.

The Taoiseach:No legislation was promised in this House as yet. An interdepartmental committee is sitting to update every aspect of the scheme and, in due course, when the Government has decided on it, if legislation is to be introduced it will be brought before the House.

(Interruptions.)

[1209]Mr. M. McDowell:Do I understand that the promise given by the Tánaiste has been withdrawn 24 hours later?

(Interruptions.)

An Ceann Comhairle:We cannot have argument.

Mr. M. Higgins:Do not twist his words.

Mr. G. Mitchell:Stand up Deputy and tell us.

Mrs. Owen:Where are all the high ideals the Deputy had when he sat in those benches?

Mr. M. Higgins:Read the record. Deputies will not be too proud of it.

Mr. G. Mitchell:The Deputy was bought for a very small price. What happened to him between the time he was here and then over there?

An Ceann Comhairle:The Deputy should restrain himself.

Mrs. Geoghegan-Quinn:He finds it difficult.

An Ceann Comhairle:I will adjourn the House if this continues.

Mrs. Owen:Does the Government think this is over?

Mr. Harte:Will the Taoiseach explain whether promised legislation means when he states it in the House or when the Tánaiste agrees on something——

Dr. Woods:The Deputy should know by now.

Mr. Harte:Will the Taoiseach clarify the matter? On the question of the Dáil adjourning——

(Interruptions.)

[1210]Mr. Connor:Let the Deputy speak without interruption.

Mr. M. McDowell:The Tánaiste was very cross the other day with the Taoiseach.

Mr. Durkan:He gave Government Deputies a clean bill of health.

(Interruptions.)

Mr. Harte:On the question of——

An Ceann Comhairle:This is not Question Time.

Mr. Harte:——the House adjourning——

An Ceann Comhairle:That matter has been agreed and the Deputy cannot ask a question about it.

Mr. Harte:In view of the fact that the House is adjourning may I ask the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry to tell us today if farmers in Donegal will be paid——

Mr. Callely:Good man.

An Ceann Comhairle:I had this problem yesterday. Are we to have a repeat performance from the Deputy today?

Mr. Harte:I am making a plea. The House will adjourn today. Will the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry confirm that the cheques are in the post or are the farmers going to be paid at all?

An Ceann Comhairle:The Deputy must resume his seat.

Mr. Rabbitte:Is the Taoiseach repudiating the undertaking given by the Tánaiste last night to bring in legislation to review this disgraceful scheme?

Ms O'Donnell:He just has.

Mrs. Owen:The Taoiseach must be [1211] relieved that the Dáil is not sitting next week.

Mr. Rabbitte:Inspector Clouseau may put something together.

Mr. M. Higgins:The Deputy is watching old films.

Mr. Rabbitte:The old are the best.

(Interruptions.)

Mr. J. Mitchell:Notwithstanding the fact that I am a candidate in the European Elections, I will try to be orderly. May I ask the Taoiseach if it is envisaged that the Ethics in Public Office Bill will be enacted before the summer recess and whether it will contain provisions to deal with the issues raised on the Order of Business today and on previous days?

An Ceann Comhairle:The Deputy need not elaborate now.

The Taoiseach:No legislation has yet been promised in the House. It is very unlikely that the Government would have completed its consideration——

Mrs. Owen:The Deputy referred to the Ethics in Public Office Bill.

Mr. Yates:The Bill has already been published.

The Taoiseach:Sorry. If Deputy McDowell paid more attention to the need for foreign investment it would be more helpful to the House than the sneering in which he engages.

Mrs. Owen:Perhaps the Taoiseach should listen to the questions which are asked.

The Taoiseach:It is most unlikely that the Ethics in Public Office Bill will be enacted before the summer recess but, as I have said previously in the House, it is a matter for the Whips to get together and ensure it is debated at the earliest [1212] possible time. The Government has no problems with this debate.