I would have anti sway mounts at the top
Tom k5bm
Life is not how long you live, It's how long you enjoy how you live.
Tom Ed Moore
February 10th, 2008
Today's Topics:
1. Re: what not to do in your tower ( Jack KZ4USA)
2. Re: what not to do in your tower (David Gilbert)
3. Re: what not to do in your tower (Roger (K8RI))
4. Re: what not to do in your tower (Steve Maki)
5. Re: what not to do in your tower (Jim Chaggaris)
6. Re: what not to do in your tower (Roger (K8RI))
7. Re: what not to do in your tower (Michael Tope)
8. Re: what not to do in your tower (Steve Maki)
9. Re: what not to do in your tower (Alfred Frugoli)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 21:08:25 -0400
From: " Jack KZ4USA" <videorov@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] what not to do in your tower
To: "Tower and HF antenna construction topics."
<towertalk@contesting.com>
Message-ID: <1B98BD2CD25C4D078333663770DF460C@RADIO1>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
reply-type=original
Wonder how long thoses rings will hold and not rust.
Jack
KZ4USA
Bradenton, Florida
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hector Garcia XE2K" <j_hector_garcia@sbcglobal.net>
To: "Tower Talk" <towertalk@contesting.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 3:42 PM
Subject: [TowerTalk] what not to do in your tower
> TT
> this is a photo album of the installation of a T12 log
> found this photo of the top guy wires against all we think is correct
>
> take a look in those key rings
>
>http://www.paristexasradio.com/tennadyne/TENNADYNE/atthetop.html
>
>
> J. Hector Garcia XE2K / AD6D
> Mexicali B.C DM22fp
> P.O.Box 73
> El Centro CA 92244-0073
> USA
>http://www.xe2k.net
>http://www.dxxe.org
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing list
> TowerTalk@contesting.com
>http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 18:29:05 -0700
From: David Gilbert <xdavid@cis-broadband.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] what not to do in your tower
To: towertalk@contesting.com
Message-ID: <4BD0F7E1.4000106@cis-broadband.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
I'd be very worried that they would crack as they deform to an oval
shape under load. I'll bet that's what you'd see if you put one in a
vice and squished it. The areas either side of the weld are likely the
weakest spots, but I'll bet that rod cracks anywhere.
73,
Dave AB7E
On 4/22/2010 5:16 PM, jimlux wrote:
> those are "welded steel rings".. as I recall, the 1/4" diameter ones
> (the diameter of the rod they're made of) have a load rating of few
> hundred pounds.
>
> Yes, they'll deform under load, but what you're really concerned with is
> tension failure of the metal, and that's way above the deformation load.
>
> Yes, they're not typically x-rayed or inspected as far as weld quality
> goes. So you'd maybe want to double them up?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing list
> TowerTalk@contesting.com
>http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 21:29:01 -0400
From: "Roger (K8RI)" <K8RI-on-TowerTalk@tm.net>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] what not to do in your tower
To: "Tower and HF antenna construction topics."
<towertalk@contesting.com>
Message-ID: <4BD0F7DD.3020508@tm.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
W5CPT wrote:
> Bill said>
>
> Why worry about little things like that when you have a key chain ring
> holding up the tower!
>
> They may not be "key chain rings". When I worked @ Lowe's we sold solid
> steel rings (welded together) that were substantially stronger than key
> rings. They were however (IMHO) NOT strong enough to use as he is. I
> don't think they were marked with a Maximum or Working load. They were
> stocked in the bins above the chain.
>
No, but the link above it is and the largest I've seen at Lowe's was
1200# (they may carry larger). They have a manufacturer's or
distributor's tag that lists the permissible working load. I use them
for temporary stuff that doesn't require a lot of strength.
73
Roger (K8RI)
> Clint - W5CPT
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> TowerTalk@contesting.com
>http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 21:31:26 -0400
From: Steve Maki <lists@oakcom.org>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] what not to do in your tower
To: "Tower and HF antenna construction topics."
<towertalk@contesting.com>
Message-ID: <4BD0F86E.20709@oakcom.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Roger (K8RI) wrote:
>> Think of them as mechanical fuses ;)
> They certainly are the weakest link in the system. OTOH maybe I
> shouldn't say that without seeing the other ends of the guys. <:-)) I
> guess I'm a bit puzzled as to why put those rings in there in the first
> place. The links above them are probably about 1200# which is still way
> under even 3/16" EHS. It looks like he's using the 6000# test
> Phillystran...with 1200# links?
Well, once they decided to use the screw chain links, they needed
something that would fit into them, which the thimbles would not do.
This part of the install was not planned very well, but the rings, which
appear to be 1/4", are a little better than key rings.
Next time they will undoubtedly will use a shackle right there...
-Steve K8LX
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 20:33:04 -0500
From: "Jim Chaggaris" <jimc@pwrone.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] what not to do in your tower
To: "'Tower and HF antenna construction topics.'"
<towertalk@contesting.com>
Message-ID: <01fa01cae284$ebc57ff0$c3507fd0$@com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
TIMBERRRR!
73,
Jim N9WW
James Chaggaris
President
PowerOne Corp./PowerOne Environmental
1020 Cedar Avenue
Suite 203
St. Charles, IL 60174
Phn: (630) 443-6500
Fax: (630) 443-6505
Website: www.pwrone.com
The information contained in this message is intended only for the personal
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delete the original message.
-----Original Message-----
From: towertalk-bounces@contesting.com
[mailto:towertalk-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of David Gilbert
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 8:29 PM
To: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] what not to do in your tower
I'd be very worried that they would crack as they deform to an oval
shape under load. I'll bet that's what you'd see if you put one in a
vice and squished it. The areas either side of the weld are likely the
weakest spots, but I'll bet that rod cracks anywhere.
73,
Dave AB7E
On 4/22/2010 5:16 PM, jimlux wrote:
> those are "welded steel rings".. as I recall, the 1/4" diameter ones
> (the diameter of the rod they're made of) have a load rating of few
> hundred pounds.
>
> Yes, they'll deform under load, but what you're really concerned with is
> tension failure of the metal, and that's way above the deformation load.
>
> Yes, they're not typically x-rayed or inspected as far as weld quality
> goes. So you'd maybe want to double them up?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing list
> TowerTalk@contesting.com
>http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
>
_______________________________________________
_______________________________________________
TowerTalk mailing list
TowerTalk@contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 21:41:33 -0400
From: "Roger (K8RI)" <K8RI-on-TowerTalk@tm.net>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] what not to do in your tower
To: ve3gsi@canada.com, "Tower and HF antenna construction topics."
<towertalk@contesting.com>
Message-ID: <4BD0FACD.2060208@tm.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Eric - VE3GSI wrote:
> What is the proper way?
>
ROHN makes a guy bracket that fits around the tower. They consist of 3
bars about 1/4" thick and around an inch or inch and a quarter wide for
the 25G. They are bigger for the 45G. These sections are held together
by some substantial bolts with a bushing over them (on the 45). The guy
thimble fits over these, or there is a heavy duty link (looks like a
single chain link) than can go from the bushing to the thimble. These
have the advantage of removing the side pull of the guy on the tower as
the bracket takes the side loads from the guys. Of course the vertical
load still translates to the tower.
I'm not so sure if guying off the top plate is permissible, but if so,
then a ( safety wired) clevis through the guy wire spindle would be the
proper connection. In his case there should at least be a safety wire as
strong as the guy through all of those links from the guy thimble to the
top plate. The same is true for turnbuckles. They should have a safety
cable around them so if they come apart the only thing that happens is
the guy tension slacks off a bit.
73
Roger (K8RI)
> I read the some of the reply posts talking about - well everything wrong
> with the hardware, and yes to me the installation does look like a major
> problem about to happen. But, I have a sincere question coming from a
> fellow
> that climbs as high as I can with one foot on the ground and owns
> self-support towers. What should have been done to make the installation
> correct/safe? Can I guess cable ends with clevis type compression fitting
> perhaps?
>
> Again, I only climb towers when they are laying on the ground.
>
> Please educate me,
> Eric - VE3GSI
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hector Garcia XE2K
> Sent: April-22-10 3:42 PM
> To: Tower Talk
> Subject: [TowerTalk] what not to do in your tower
>
> TT
> this is a photo album of the installation of a T12 log
> found this photo of the top guy wires against all we think is correct
>
> take a look in those key rings
>
>http://www.paristexasradio.com/tennadyne/TENNADYNE/atthetop.html
>
>
> J. Hector Garcia XE2K / AD6D
> Mexicali B.C DM22fp
> P.O.Box 73
> El Centro CA 92244-0073
> USA
>http://www.xe2k.net
>http://www.dxxe.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing list
> TowerTalk@contesting.com
>http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 18:45:48 -0700
From: Michael Tope <W4EF@dellroy.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] what not to do in your tower
To: "Tower and HF antenna construction topics."
<towertalk@contesting.com>
Message-ID: <4BD0FBCC.6090405@dellroy.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
I forwarded a copy of Hector's email to the tower owner along with a
copy of the Rohn hardware page that has their shackles and a note
suggesting that he change out that improper hardware (I also recommended
that he subscribe to TowerTalk).
73, Mike W4EF/6
On 4/22/2010 6:31 PM, Steve Maki wrote:
> Roger (K8RI) wrote:
>
>
>>> Think of them as mechanical fuses ;)
>>>
>
>> They certainly are the weakest link in the system. OTOH maybe I
>> shouldn't say that without seeing the other ends of the guys.<:-)) I
>> guess I'm a bit puzzled as to why put those rings in there in the first
>> place. The links above them are probably about 1200# which is still way
>> under even 3/16" EHS. It looks like he's using the 6000# test
>> Phillystran...with 1200# links?
>>
>
> Well, once they decided to use the screw chain links, they needed
> something that would fit into them, which the thimbles would not do.
>
> This part of the install was not planned very well, but the rings, which
> appear to be 1/4", are a little better than key rings.
>
> Next time they will undoubtedly will use a shackle right there...
>
> -Steve K8LX
>
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 21:51:20 -0400
From: Steve Maki <lists@oakcom.org>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] what not to do in your tower
To: "Tower and HF antenna construction topics."
<towertalk@contesting.com>
Message-ID: <4BD0FD18.2070509@oakcom.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Roger (K8RI) wrote:
> The same is true for turnbuckles. They should have a safety
> cable around them so if they come apart the only thing that happens is
> the guy tension slacks off a bit.
The safety wire is really to combat vandalism and possibly vibration
induced unwinding of the turnbuckle. They are usually threaded through
the turnbuckle and the ends connected to each other with a single *in
line* cable clamp, totally incapable of supporting the tower in the
event of a turnbuckle failure.
The turnbuckle shouldn't be the weak spot in the guy wire.
-Steve K8LX
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 22:33:13 -0400
From: Alfred Frugoli <ke1fo@arrl.net>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] what not to do in your tower
To: "Tower and HF antenna construction topics."
<towertalk@contesting.com>
Message-ID:
<j2nb3d8b7831004221933x5f47f717saf591261fbabb3b7@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Thank you!
73 de Al, KE1FO
K3 #3055
K3 #4094
-----
Check out my Amateur Radio Contesting blog at ke1fo.wordpress.com.
On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 9:45 PM, Michael Tope <W4EF@dellroy.com> wrote:
> I forwarded a copy of Hector's email to the tower owner along with a
> copy of the Rohn hardware page that has their shackles and a note
> suggesting that he change out that improper hardware (I also recommended
> that he subscribe to TowerTalk).
>
> 73, Mike W4EF/6
>
> On 4/22/2010 6:31 PM, Steve Maki wrote:
> > Roger (K8RI) wrote:
> >
> >
> >>> Think of them as mechanical fuses ;)
> >>>
> >
> >> They certainly are the weakest link in the system. OTOH maybe I
> >> shouldn't say that without seeing the other ends of the guys.<:-)) I
> >> guess I'm a bit puzzled as to why put those rings in there in the first
> >> place. The links above them are probably about 1200# which is still way
> >> under even 3/16" EHS. It looks like he's using the 6000# test
> >> Phillystran...with 1200# links?
> >>
> >
> > Well, once they decided to use the screw chain links, they needed
> > something that would fit into them, which the thimbles would not do.
> >
> > This part of the install was not planned very well, but the rings, which
> > appear to be 1/4", are a little better than key rings.
> >
> > Next time they will undoubtedly will use a shackle right there...
> >
> > -Steve K8LX
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing list
> TowerTalk@contesting.com
>http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
------------------------------
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End of TowerTalk Digest, Vol 88, Issue 92
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