There is a mixed results about this from what I've been reading from all of you, but I'm glad no one around here is getting way too angry about it...

Oh, I'm angry... I'm very angry that government is deciding to control my life, my wife and my childs... (because of the new healthcare LAW... The insurance premium's are going to go up within the end of the year ~ maybe sooner)

Has anybody seen Demolition Man (1993)?

On the other hand I'm very sorry for the people that are actually believe that government can do everything without any rashioning... And I feel sorry for those dead Americans that are not covered by Free Healthcare... actaully by the time you are done reading my reply... 6 Americans has died without Free Healthcare... [and just think free healthcare isnt going to be active for another 4 to 6 years... Oh, crap another 3 more Americans just died without free healthcare]

Honestly I'm not sure how this will all work in the U.S. - I hope it will benefit those who before couldn't afford to seek necessary medical attention. In Canada, we have Medicare. It's not perfect our system but I like that I can go to the hospital for a check-up and there will be no bill, in most cases there will be no bill for surgery , you need no medical insurance in most cases although you can still purchase some for its benefits. Sure we all contribute taxes to Medicare but at least everyone can take advantage of going to the doctor for a visit when necessary. There's still problems with doctor shortages and other things such as it's harder to sue for malpractice. It does mean longer wait times but it isn't just healthcare for the rich at least or healthcare to benefit greedy insurance companies.

Honestly I'm not sure how this will all work in the U.S. - I hope it will benefit those who before couldn't afford to seek necessary medical attention.

Actually its a joke on the poor... the free Healthcare isnt going to be in effect until 4 to 6 years later (that means hundreds of Americans are still going to DIE)

What become effective from the LAW is: government forcing its citizens to buy health insurance, new insurance regulations (which forces insurance to raise their premium) and more taxes... except something about pre-existing conditions for the children...

WASHINGTON — Hours after President Barack Obama signed historic health care legislation, a potential problem emerged. Administration officials are now scrambling to fix a gap in highly touted benefits for children.

Obama made better coverage for children a centerpiece of his health care remake, but it turns out the letter of the law provided a less-than-complete guarantee that kids with health problems would not be shut out of coverage.

Under the new law, insurance companies still would be able to refuse new coverage to children because of a pre-existing medical problem, said Karen Lightfoot, spokeswoman for the House Energy and Commerce Committee, one of the main congressional panels that wrote the bill Obama signed into law Tuesday.

Hmmmm... Obama did said it was about the children, those poor children and the pre-existing conditions that the nasty insurance companies dont want to cover, he told the American People that they will be covered the moment after he signed the bill... funny that bill is few thousand pages wide and they seemed to left that part out.

I guess the real joke is on the children since they are the ones that will be paying for this crap.

Quote

In Canada, we have Medicare. It's not perfect our system

Outch! If you dont think your system is perfect then why should we accept it?

Please note that 10 more Americans has died without Free Healthcare ~ maybe I should stop posting so I can save some Americans (Oh snap 2 more just died)

I never said our system was right for the U.S.. I was just trying to say there are goods and bads to the system we have. If they were going to take it away here and we all had to start paying ridiculous amounts of cash to visit a doctor or to get minor surgery, I'd fight that tooth and nail - sure many others would too. I wouldn't be able to afford it for one thing. Neither would a good many others I'd imagine. This system we have is flawed but at times, it does work. At times, a poor person will receive care and treatment that may well save or prolong their lives, something they probably wouldn't have if they had to pay for it out of their own pockets. The United States government though needs to find the system that will work best for them given there's far more population involved in the U.S. and more governing bodies to deal with I'm assuming given the U.S. has fifty states. If it's of no benefit to those who really need it, obviously this needs some amending..well IMO anyways.

Outch! If you dont think your system is perfect then why should we accept it?

...is that a serious question? If so, you should realize that no system is perfect. The question is if it is better than what we have. I believe it is, on the whole, others disagree. I gather most Canadians actually like the system, but complain about it endlessly.

Quote

government forcing its citizens to buy health insurance, new insurance regulations (which forces insurance to raise their premium) and more taxes... except something about pre-existing conditions for the children...

There's also massive subsidies for a very big chunk of the population on insurance premiums (on another note, the poorest people are actually not forced to buy health insurance), a removal of lifetime caps, caps on out of pocket costs in a year, caps on the premiums themselves, and so on. The non-partisan committee has estimated that of those who already have insurance, a small percentage will have their premiums go down, a large percentage will have it go up by around 10-15% while also getting large improvements in coverage, and the rest will have no noticeable changes - and a lot of those will gain subsidies along with these changes.

We'll see if they're correct, of course, once the system is actually up and running.

Quote

he told the American People that they will be covered the moment after he signed the bill

I never said our system was right for the U.S.. I was just trying to say there are goods and bads to the system we have.

I mean no offense to you or Canada...

I wasnt trying to take you out of context, either... I know the Canadian system isnt perfect (as well as you know ~ which is the point of arugment) and I just wanted to say if the Canadian system isnt perfect then why should we try it? [No need to answer]

Since the intent of the Healthcare Bill is supose to fix the problem by remodeling it to the similar Canadian/Europen system then it would be assumed that its going to be perfect... Otherwise why fix it, right? [no need to answer]

Think of it... Canadian system isnt perfect... Big deal... Right?

Ok now lets look at it differently... take plumbing for an example.

You have old leaky pipes and you hire a plumber to replace all the old pipes and then installs new pipes but the pipes is still leaking. Has the plumber fixed the leak?

Ok, sounds insane... [But thats the New Healthcare Law... So how could I assume this? Simple the Canadian System isnt perfect]

I live in Cook County Chicago... We have Stroger Hospital with is designed to help the poor. Oh my god, America actually has places that helps the poor? Who would of thought after listen to Obama and the other Dictators (Rep and Sen) for a year you would of thought we dont have any such programs. (The outrage... 6 more Americans has just died without Free Healthcare and all they had to do is look for existing government programs... Stop the insanty)

But we do have such programs and Stroger Hospital has bankrupt Cook County, its at least 4 billion dollars in the hole and that an existing program.

Ok... lets go back at the plumbing example again, this time with the American version of the Healthcare Law.

You have old leaky pipes and you hire a plumber to replace all the old pipes. He removes all the pipes and leaves... In 4 to 6 years he'll come back and then install the new pipes and tells you its for free.

More insanity? [This is the New Healthcare Law... since Free Healthcare isnt going to be active until 4 to 6 years later so we are going to start paying for it now and be told its going to be free.]

Skull, whenever you make light of people dying it negates whatever argument you had. It is a FACT that people die, every year, because they one~don't have insurance, two~ had insurance and were dropped when they got sick, or three~they have a child with a pre-existing condition and no insurance company will cover them.

Logged

There's no worse feeling than that millisecond you're sure you are going to die after leaning your chair back a little too far~ ruminations

Skull, whenever you make light of people dying it negates whatever argument you had. It is a FACT that people die, every year, because they one~don't have insurance, two~ had insurance and were dropped when they got sick, or three~they have a child with a pre-existing condition and no insurance company will cover them.

Light? I'm very serious... The rep's and the sen's had to pushed the Healthcare bill for those poor American that dont have any Free Healthcare. This is why Obama was pushing it so they can get their Free Healthcare, its for the poor and for the children. (crap another 4 more Americans has just died!) It's not my fault that they are not going to be covered for another 4 to 6 years.... (another American dies) HOW MANY MORE AMERICANS ARE GOING TO DIE WITHOUT FREE HEALTHCARE.

Skull, whenever you make light of people dying it negates whatever argument you had. It is a FACT that people die, every year, because they one~don't have insurance, two~ had insurance and were dropped when they got sick, or three~they have a child with a pre-existing condition and no insurance company will cover them.

Light? I'm very serious... The rep's and the sen's had to pushed the Healthcare bill for those poor American that dont have any Free Healthcare. This is why Obama was pushing it so they can get their Free Healthcare, its for the poor and for the children. (crap another 4 more Americans has just died!) It's not my fault that they are not going to be covered for another 4 to 6 years.... (another American dies) HOW MANY MORE AMERICANS ARE GOING TO DIE WITHOUT FREE HEALTHCARE.

Really... its a sad sick joke.

You just.don't.get it. You don't like the heath care bill, I get it. There are others way to make it known besides making jokes about people dying. oh, and here is a list of things that will happen immediately with heath care..

Skull, whenever you make light of people dying it negates whatever argument you had. It is a FACT that people die, every year, because they one~don't have insurance, two~ had insurance and were dropped when they got sick, or three~they have a child with a pre-existing condition and no insurance company will cover them.

Light? I'm very serious... The rep's and the sen's had to pushed the Healthcare bill for those poor American that dont have any Free Healthcare. This is why Obama was pushing it so they can get their Free Healthcare, its for the poor and for the children. (crap another 4 more Americans has just died!) It's not my fault that they are not going to be covered for another 4 to 6 years.... (another American dies) HOW MANY MORE AMERICANS ARE GOING TO DIE WITHOUT FREE HEALTHCARE.

Really... its a sad sick joke.

You just.don't.get it. You don't like the heath care bill, I get it. There are others way to make it known besides making jokes about people dying. oh, and here is a list of things that will happen immediately with heath care..

The bottom line... 4 to 6 years the poor Americans will get their Free Healthcare. Thats 4 to 6 years of Americans will Die without Free Healthcare... Whats is so hard for me to get? Did you listen to the President? Why was the push so necessary? Why is it so important for the Sen's and Rep's to vote on a bill that wasnt written... Why is it so important for the President to sign the bill in less then 2 days when he promises that he'll do it in 5 days... Why make the congress work on the weekends? Why?

So the poor Americans can be covered by Free Healthcare... yet, that's another 4 to 6 years away. Saddly those poor Americans are still dieing without their Free Healthcare. Saddly another 3 Americans has just died.

It costs BILLIONS of dollars every year to research and develop new medicines. It takes seven years of school and ovver 100,000 dollars to become a doctor. WHY ON EARTH would people give away what it took them years to develop and achieve?

SOMEONE ALWAYS PAYS.

We will pay with our own money, or the government will take our money and pay for it, but nothing is ever FREE.

Yikes, it's getting heated around here! And you're right about things not being free indianasmith. The massive amount of money it will cost to implement the new bill is going to create a staggering deficit that will take this country decades to climb out of. Also, there's already a shortage of doctors across the nation; once everyone else who doesn't have healthcare gets it, our medical professionals are going to be pushed to their limits.

I've polled the kids I work with and those that actually are going to school (many aren't because they are afraid that they'll put themselves deep in debt, graduate college, then never get the career they went to school for and have to slave away at a s**tty job for the rest of their lives... pretty bleak outlook to have in the 'land of opportunity,' eh?) are focusing on computers, criminal justice, and teaching. Out of a dozen, maybe two or three said they want to go into a medical field and out of those, NONE are planning on being a full-on M.D.

Perhaps the government should fork out some dough and start putting interested / qualified individuals through medical school in order to avoid a "doctor drought" in the future.

Profit is the best motivator in the world. You want more doctors, put strict limits on medical liability and don't force them to take less than their services are worth.

I did get a bit heated, but it seems like people never can realize a basic truth: the government can't give you a THING without first taking it from someone else. For all the whining and moaning about the Bush tax cuts, people forget that it its lowest, the IRS was still getting a 33% cut of the wealthiest Americans' income. ONE THIRD. and if they lived in a state with a state income tax, add another 10% or more on top of that. Throw in sales taxes, property taxes, etc, and the net result is that those who make one million a year or more wind up giving HALF of it, at least, to the government every year.

The massive amount of money it will cost to implement the new bill is going to create a staggering deficit that will take this country decades to climb out of

Without getting into particulars, how is an extra $60 billion per year a staggering amount to deal with over the huge deficits we've already had in the past 10 years? This is the one argument I really can't grasp at all.