The KTM Duke 390 Ownership Experience Thread

This is a discussion on The KTM Duke 390 Ownership Experience Thread within Motorbikes, part of the BHP India category; Originally Posted by The Pain
Picked this up for exactly the same reason.
http://www.ebay.in/itm/12v-Non-Intru...item35d434f499
Installation video of the installation and ...

Question was not on the braking prowess of the 390, but why a larger diameter disc would necessitate a 'larger' master cylinder.

Regards
Sutripta

The master cylinder used on 390 is same as that on 200 as per the mechanic at service center.

By larger master cylinder I meant using master cylinder with larger bore size. Increase in bore size of master cylinder will increase your brake lever effort and decrease lever travel and increase the volume of fluid travelling through the brake line which should in turn improve the overall braking and feel.

The master cylinder used on 390 is same as that on 200 as per the mechanic at service center.

By larger master cylinder I meant using master cylinder with larger bore size. Increase in bore size of master cylinder will increase your brake lever effort and decrease lever travel and increase the volume of fluid travelling through the brake line which should in turn improve the overall braking and feel.

Thanks,
Surbhit

I could be wrong (so don't jump on me with a cryptic one liner Sutripta!) but think its just the opposite bro.

The master cylinder used on 390 is same as that on 200 as per the mechanic at service center.

By larger master cylinder I meant using master cylinder with larger bore size. Increase in bore size of master cylinder will increase your brake lever effort and decrease lever travel and increase the volume of fluid travelling through the brake line which should in turn improve the overall braking and feel.

Thanks,
Surbhit

Once again, the original question was about the relationship (if any) between the diameter of the disk and the size of the master cylinder. Still in the dark!

Quote:

Originally Posted by ebonho

I could be wrong (so don't jump on me with a cryptic one liner Sutripta!) but think its just the opposite bro.

Actually any extreme would result in a improperly working system. And it is the ratios which matter most.
Too large, and you wont generate sufficient pressure.
Too small, and you'll run out of travel. Esp if there is 'compliance' in the system.

You are right. Given the way humans perceive effort and linearity, within the window of permissible (engineeringwise) sizes, the smaller bore MC will have better feel.

Once again, the original question was about the relationship (if any) between the diameter of the disk and the size of the master cylinder. Still in the dark!

Actually any extreme would result in a improperly working system. And it is the ratios which matter most.
Too large, and you wont generate sufficient pressure.
Too small, and you'll run out of travel. Esp if there is 'compliance' in the system.

You are right. Given the way humans perceive effort and linearity, within the window of permissible (engineeringwise) sizes, the smaller bore MC will have better feel.

Went to get the chain lubed at the Mumbai - Goregaon KTM service station at around 600KMs and was extremely dissapointed with how things are done.

The mech puts the bike up on a paddock stand puts it into 1st lets the wheel spin, takes a can of Motul chain clean and sprays the back of the rear chain sprocket. Without even pausing for a second, picks up the can of Motul chain lube and sprays it on the same location coating the chain with a mixture of cleaner and Lube. In the process getting the gunk all over my rear rim, chain guard etc.

I told him that he needed to wipe the chain down after using the Chain Clean, wait for a couple of minutes and then use the lube. However, he seemed to think what he did was the right way to do things and proceeded to show me that the chain was clean.

Purchased Motul Chain Clean and Road Lube this morning from my local spares shop (1010/- for both) and did the whole thing again. Correctly this time.

Do not have a paddock stand so got my building security guard to sit on the bike and move it to and fro as required to clean and lube the chain. Its extremely simple and i think its something that should be done properly at regular intervals as prescribed.

I think Bajaj needs to wake up and do something about the level of worksmanship and knowledge at their service centers or the KTM brand name will go to the dogs in no time flat. Have visited 3 service centers in Mumbai till now and found this:

Lower Parel : Seems good but extremely busy
Goregaon : Please read experience above
Ghatkoper : Seems good and the mechs there are very knowledgeable.

Anyone with any experience with the Service Center in New Bombay - Seawoods. Want to get my 1st service done someplace good. Thanks.

All brakes should ultimately be capable of locking the wheel. The force required for that is determined by the characteristics of the bike (esp. wt. transfer), and most importantly, the tyres. From there you back calculate the caliper/ pad combination. It is the caliper which determines MC size. Rotor size really does not come into it.

If the D200 and D390 have the same calipers, they will also have the same MC.

All brakes should ultimately be capable of locking the wheel. The force required for that is determined by the characteristics of the bike (esp. wt. transfer), and most importantly, the tyres. From there you back calculate the caliper/ pad combination. It is the caliper which determines MC size. Rotor size really does not come into it.

If the D200 and D390 have the same calipers, they will also have the same MC.

Regards
Sutripta

+1 on the master cylinder and caliper proportions. I think it would be useful to add that for the given MC/caliper/pad combo, braking ability is directly proportional to the brake rotor diameter. This relates to the amount of braking force that must be applied to the disc to stop the wheel. So bigger rotor = better brakes. As always, there are trade-offs that need to be dealt with.

I'm usually just a lurker on this thread, reading about the owners' experiences and I'm glad to see the occasional serious technical issue being addressed competently by TBHP members who have a genuine technical understanding of the issue. Elsewhere, it's the blind leading the blind...

I've been contemplating buying the Duke 390 myself but my past poor experience with Bajaj and the Pulsar and the sense of déjà-vu that I get from reading the messages here have kept me from actually buying one. One thing that really bothers me is the quality of ASS for a 2+ lakh bike is about the same as for a Pulsar that cost 3 times less. The fancy workshop seems to be about appearances. The skills and training of the Pro-biking mechanics seem to be no better than ordinary mechanics. I'm basing this statement on the feedback from various people here. The sense I get consistently is that most KTM mechanics do not have the skills or the training to solve problems beyond what is in their syllabus and the management (Dealer and Bajaj) turns a blind eye to shortcuts. E.g. Changing the master cylinder to an Endurance model instead of finding out why the ByBre one isn't working or the chain cleaning method a few messages previous.

Let me be clear: this is not a rant about the bike. The bike is a fantastic performer and a good deal too. Bajaj deserve credit for bringing such a bike to India. What I am expressing my skepticism is about Bajaj's ability and willingness to support customers at a level that meets expectations associated with such a premium bike. I know the competition isn't any better but that's a different thread entirely.

What I am expressing my skepticism is about Bajaj's ability and willingness to support customers at a level that meets expectations associated with such a premium bike

To their credit i know some mechanics here in chennai have been trained at their plant and have a very good knowledge of the bike.

In face the guy here in selayur has good knowledge to help customer fix issues rather than be a mechanic trying to open and close parts.

The training has been given to quite a few where the initial lot landed and i am hoping the training is being continued for others.

The guys are professionals who graduated from pulsar to 200 and selected few to 390's.

This is what i heard from them. And bangalore is one of the hubs where training did take place. YOu will find these trained folks actually heading the service rather than actually servicing. You may want to find out who their head of service for 390 is and discuss your issue rather than taking it up with the guy performing the job for he is given instructions which he is supposed to follow.

.............
Let me be clear: this is not a rant about the bike. The bike is a fantastic performer and a good deal too. Bajaj deserve credit for bringing such a bike to India. What I am expressing my skepticism is about Bajaj's ability and willingness to support customers at a level that meets expectations associated with such a premium bike. I know the competition isn't any better but that's a different thread entirely.

Thanks!

Roger that !
That said though, the Kasturba road service is highly recommended for any and all 'niggles' that the D390 offers in spades.

All vibes, squeaks etc were superbly dealt with by the service manager Ravi, whom Added_Flavor (Suhas) had recommended that I contact.

I have no idea how good/bad ANY of the service centers are gonna be when there is a shit-hath-hitteth-the-fan issue. But, this is the most bang for buck one can get on two wheels at the moment, and I intend to leave the hypotheticals be hypotheticals !

Roger that !
That said though, the Kasturba road service is highly recommended for any and all 'niggles' that the D390 offers in spades.

All vibes, squeaks etc were superbly dealt with by the service manager Ravi, whom Added_Flavor (Suhas) had recommended that I contact.

....

Sundar

When I used to visit Khivraj Kasturba road years ago, I had kept in touch with the service adviser and dealt with him directly. He was a friendly chap and was competent at his job. My experience was good so long as he was there. After he quit, my experience deteriorated. The new service adviser was not good to deal with and work was not meeting my expectations. After 2 below average services, I stopped going there. I found a decent mechanic much closer to my house.

Service advisers are generally mechanics with decent communication skills and lots of experience. The hierarchy in most places is that the a group of mechanics report to the SA, who inturn reports to a white collar manager. If the SA quits there are generally no competent replacements within the group. This is when we customers start noticing problems with workmanship.

Thanks for the catch, but I am looking for some mechanical kind of locking system. Also these battery operated alarm systems may drain out the battery if not connected well.

Has anyone upgraded the headlights? They are very average IMO

KTM sell an OEM alarm system which you may want to take a look at. Be prepared to sell a kidney though.

The stock headlamps are indeed very poor. Am waiting for sandeepmohan to be available so we can DIY install better bulbs. I don't like the horn either but I don't use it much at all so I can live with it.

The mech puts the bike up on a paddock stand puts it into 1st lets the wheel spin, takes a can of Motul chain clean and sprays the back of the rear chain sprocket. Without even pausing for a second, picks up the can of Motul chain lube and sprays it on the same location coating the chain with a mixture of cleaner and Lube. In the process getting the gunk all over my rear rim, chain guard etc.

.......

Ghatkoper : Seems good and the mechs there are very knowledgeable.

Mechs are good but the chain lube was done in the exact same utter rubbish way as described by you. Have to go there for second service within a matter of days.