The SitePoint Forums have moved.

You can now find them here.
This forum is now closed to new posts, but you can browse existing content.
You can find out more information about the move and how to open a new account (if necessary) here.
If you get stuck you can get support by emailing forums@sitepoint.com

If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

accessibility issue with web application

hi,

i need to know, whether all the accessibility guidelines are valid even for the web application. Because for an application
1. Data on the page is going to be dynamic
2. popup windows save the time and effors of the users.
3. clientside javascript saves the time.

all three points are actually against the accessibility. So are they meant only for website and not application?

Which accessibility guidelines are you talking about? Are you talking about the generic Section 508 or WCAG specifications or are you talking about the WAI-ARIA (web application) accessibility specs? You need to be much more specific when talking about accessibility.

Depends on the application, Alex. While I'm no fan of them, I know plenty of people who are into all that social networking and goofy web application junk, who say they like things like login windows to pop up instead of "clunky" redirects. I know people who like popups in their music applications that have all the sound settings instead of new pages or a single filled-up page. I'm old fashioned and I know it, but if an application is targetted to a particular audience, popups may well be something they appreciate. Depends on the app and what the popups are doing.

all three points are actually against the accessibility. So are they meant only for website and not application?

If this is targetted to the Web In General, your application had better work without JS or Popups, and make use of redirection and/or having more information available on a single page. "Application" usually means "scripting involved" but that doesn't mean "client-side scripting". You have a back-end language, make use of it. That should all Just Work, and this makes your page more accessible.

Then go ahead and layer your sugar on top. Users who have scripts on get the faster experience of AJAX or whatever instead of manual server redirects, and for things where you use popups (likely javascript driven?), make sure you first have a plain old redirected page if necessary or the contents of the popups on the page already.

You can take a look at something like vBulliten (like this forum). I use it with scripts off, so I get surprised when I visit on a JS-enabled browser because I'm so used to pages redirecting to things like User Profiles and logging in, when users with Javascript on get these cutesy little popups with all these little options and stuff. Works for everyone.

Popup's aren't needed in the traditional sense, you should be using a lightbox if you want a login window which is "safe" and accessibility friendly, not manipulating the browser and forcing people to disable those lovely blockers which help get rid of all the junk that would clutter a screen readers screen.

Popup's aren't needed in the traditional sense, you should be using a lightbox if you want a login window which is "safe" and accessibility friendly, not manipulating the browser and forcing people to disable those lovely blockers which help get rid of all the junk that would clutter a screen readers screen.

I'm also not really hip enough to tell the difference, visually. Like most people, all I know is sometimes I get this funny yeller bar at the top of my browser er sumthin' : )

Oh yeah, I know what lightboxes are (only because I had to help a colleague with the CSS for one on our jeasselling site) but there are other non-popup thingies that look like popups but don't trigger the yeller bar.

Sometimes it's an actual new window without any toolbars but other times I'm sure it's something else weird.

ssjogus look into the ARIA, which Alex linked. It will help you to make 'real-time' updates more accessible. As for the Javascript stuff, I am no JS expert, but it can be accessible depending on what it is doing.

The general rule with JavaScript is to make it unobtrusive, ensure that it's not required for any important piece of functionality and that when scripting is turned off, the website continues to function. This also means ensuring all your scripts are separated from the structure (like you strip CSS into separate files). You also need to ensure that you don't use pop-up's or use anything which manipulates the web browser to ensure the user experience won't be diminished