babble is rabble.ca's discussion board but it's much more than that: it's an online community for folks who just won't shut up. It's a place to tell each other — and the world — what's up with our work and campaigns.

When the Urban Affairs branch closes, Toronto will have 3.9 libraries per 100,000 people, which is what Vancouver has. Halifax has 4.3 libraries per 100,000 people, more than Toronto. In the U.S., the entire state of Vermont, which has only one-quarter of the population of Toronto, has 30 libraries per 100,000 people, which is 7-1/2 times the library density of Toronto.

Now I understand why Vermont elects the only US Senator that calls himself a democratic socialist.

At least, that’s what my work colleague Rob Duffy said to me, demanding an explanation. Has Rob Ford really dug a $1 billion hole in during his eight months in the mayor’s chair?

Not exactly. Perks is not lying, those numbers are more or less accurate. But for their shock value, they do a bit of fancy dancing around our concepts of what the budget is and means, and leave out some pertinent details. The fact is that Ford is using the projected deficit number for 2012 for shock value to justify cutting services, while Perks is using the actual surplus number from 2010 to justify saving them.

Making fun of Ford because of his weight is fat-phobic. He's despicable enough in his plans, ideology and policies. Shall we try to be mature?

"Fat-phobic"? Really? Is everything now made into an "ism" or a "phobia"? Nobody's picking on a guy in a wheelchair here or mocking a trait like race or ethnicity. He's just a guy who clearly has no self control around food

Nobody's picking on a guy in a wheelchair here or mocking a trait like race or ethnicity. He's just a guy who clearly has no self control around food

Wow do you have anything except your prejudice to back up this ridiculous statement. What other personal characteristics do you feel comfortable mocking. Do you point fingers at people and call them names in person?

You think Rob Ford eats a sensible diet and exercises regularly? Obesity is a major problem in our society, especially among kids. And to then complain about "too many libraries, not enough donut shops" sets a terrible example.

Being overweight is not like being of a certain race, ethnicity or sexual orientation in that it's beyond one's control.

Rob Ford has shown himself time and time again to be a bully. Whether insulting and excluding people for having been born gay, promoting stereotypes about "orientals", calling an Italian-Canadian councillor "Gino boy", wanting to make Toronto a "refugee-free zone." He likes to pick on people for things over which they have no control. Nobody chooses their sexual orientation, skin colour, or country of birth. Rob Ford CHOOSES to be an ignorant lard ass.

Also, do you not think that his personal lifestyle choices influence his ideological agenda? He's cutting libraries. Not like HE reads. He just shut down the Jarvis bike lane. Oh well, not like HE's gonna ride a bike. His cutbacks are going to affect parks and recreation for people in this city. Oh well, not like HE ever makes use of them. He refuses to march in the gay pride parade when he, more than anyone, could certainly benefit from a brisk walk. There's something delightfully ironic about him telling the people of this city that we need to tighten our metaphorical belt when he can't tighten his literal one and cutting services to the less fortunate because we need to show "restraint", something he's clearly never shown at a buffet.

Well, this thread is pretty much ruined for me. I guess Mr. Tea has never been to a union convention, an NDP rally, a protest, or heck, to any gathering of people on the left, of people who support all these things he just named, despite the fact that many of us are - surprise, surprise - fat, and some of us either don't, or are unable to, do some of the things he mentions.

I hate this shit. I really do. It's something I have been hating about "the left" in this city for months - the nasty fat jokes and hateful remarks that so many supposed progressives have been making all over social media and elsewhere ever since Rob Ford came onto the mayoral scene.

I support all those things you mention, Mr. Tea. And I'm fat. And so are a lot of my left-wing friends who also support those progressive things.

You are not an ally. You are not a friend. You are being abusive, hateful, and mean. And your hatefulness affects and hurts people like me, where we cannot be in any way active in municipal politics in Toronto these days without feeling constantly attacked by people who should be our friends.

And BTW, I don't believe for a moment that Mr. Tea is Snert. Snert never made fat jokes about anyone, and generally spoke up against it when people made them, if I remember correctly. I wish I could just assume that Mr. Tea is a troll, but unfortunately, I've seen too many progressives making snide fat jokes and snickers over the past few months about the Ford brothers to believe that.

Unfortunately, this is just status quo these days. And it's a real shame.

I certainly apologize for offending you, Michelle. My intention was not to attack anyone on this board, merely to attack Rob Ford. I figure that people like him who spend their time viciously attacking people he sees as weak (the poor, refugees, gays, etc.) can benefit from a taste of their own medicine.

Yes, I've been to NDP rallies, protests, progressive conferences, etc. And, yes, I know that there are plenty of overweight people on the left, including on this board. They, however, (unlike Ford) tend to be supportive of things like bike lanes, parks, fitness and sports programs, healthy meals in schools, libraries, good education, music, art, etc. that actually encourage, not discourage others (particularly kids) from living a healthy and intellectually rich lifestyle.

Anyway, I've been pissed at Ford for a while, ever since his stupid anti-refugee statements (I came here as a refugee just over 30 years ago and I like to think that my family has contributed to this city) and in attacking him, I resorted to some cheap jokes and I'm sorry.

You are not an ally. You are not a friend. You are being abusive, hateful, and mean. And your hatefulness affects and hurts people like me, where we cannot be in any way active in municipal politics in Toronto these days without feeling constantly attacked by people who should be our friends.

And BTW, I don't believe for a moment that Mr. Tea is Snert. Snert never made fat jokes about anyone, and generally spoke up against it when people made them, if I remember correctly. I wish I could just assume that Mr. Tea is a troll, but unfortunately, I've seen too many progressives making snide fat jokes and snickers over the past few months about the Ford brothers to believe that.

If you say it is not Snert because of his previous stance on the issue then I defer to your view. The writing style however is very similar including the crab walk sideways when confronted.

I have both family and friends with weight issues. I myself am no slim guy. Michelle I also have many friends in left movements who struggle with that battle. If it was just a matter of dieting to reduce ones weight they would mostly all be slim. But losing weight is an extremely complicated and difficult process. The yo-yo diet affect that in the past was not much understood has contributed to my problems and others I know well. I can't diet to take weight off because it doesn't work.

Mr. Tea, on babble we do not insult people on the basis of their appearance - weight, height, choice of clothing, etc. Your snide remarks about Ford ie. restraint at a buffet, are offensive and have no place here.

Your fondness for making assumptions about people based on very superficial observations is problematic, and I would suggest that you put your judgementalism aside and continue to contribute your knowledge and experience to babble in a way that informs and enlightens.

Further to that, it would be great if babblers could not speculate as to which babblers are sockpuppets or returning ex-babblers. Moderators are in the best position to make such observations, and speculations like that just make for crappy environments. I hate it when resident babblers respond to a new thread by a new babbler with "Troll?" or some such accusation. Why would anyone new stay around and post?

We decry sexist criticisms levelled at conservative politicians like Sarah Palin and Michele Bachmann, not because we agree with their politics or want to defend them personally, but because we know that attacking them on the basis of their gender is unfair, demeaning, and reduces the legitimacy of the criticism.

Why, then, the carte blanche for critics to call Rob Ford names like “fat fuck” when he does something we can’t stand?

Let me tell you something: I am fat.

I am fat, and I am right here when you say that Rob Ford would do better to lay off the gravy. I’m right here when you say that grotesque individuals like Ford would be a lot better off if they got on a bicycle now and then, because they’re harming the environment as well as being grossly obese. I’m right here, and in many cases I am putting myself out there and directly questioning your need to bring Ford’s weight into a conversation where it is completely irrelevant, and you are either ignoring me or telling me that his weight is a fair point of criticism because it represents his supposed sloth, greed and disregard for the environment, because he’s a bully who “throws his weight around.”

Apart from being insulting and hurtful, the remarks and jokes about Rob Ford's weight distract everyone from the real issue - he and his brother make the Tea Party look like a bunch of progressive intellectuals by comparison and if allowed to push their dangerously ignorant policies through they will kill or maim everything that is worth celebrating about Toronto. People without access to wealth and all its resources and privileges will be hurt, and that is unacceptible.