Why is it hard to type it all. You have no problem typing all of your frustrations.

I'm not a Brunner fanboy, so I don't care about him. I'd prefer Cleary on a line with Andy and Gus. At least Cleary can help in the defensive zone and kill penalties if needed.

Brunner played in the Swiss league for quite awhile. No NHL team wanted him until the Wings came calling. IMO, he's already had the best season he will ever have in the NHL. He's not made for this league, barring adding some major bulk.

It's Andersson, btw ... I think if you can spell players names, it adds to your credibility.

Thanks for calming down.

I'm on my phone so name gets spell checked ;(.

And I'm still mad lol. Like the Alfie signing its not that I don't like Alfie or think he can help. But we don't need yet another old forward same thing with cleary. Clearu is a warrior and if franzen had half the heart he did he would be a 50 goal scorer. Its just we don't need more "depth" guys like that.

Even if it took both Nyquist and Tatar I'd of been OK with it. Cause then of you have Alfie signed as well your lines can be.

Ryan DAT Abby
Franzen z Alfie
Cleary Anderson Brunner.

For me thats built for long term and short term success. Alfie is a filler until we find someone else. But since we got Nyquist and Tatar where one could be in the top 6 we just don't need him.

Now keep on mind my griping is also based on what's only been done so far. Holland can still make this a successful off season on my eyes with a few key trades but as it stands right now I think he is just making lateral moves at best. Nothing to really improve us.

Meh. I'd take Lecavalier over Weiss, even if Weiss is better than Flip.

Tatar and Brunner were both Wings last year. If not for idiotic coaching and GM work, Tatar would have been a regular in the playoffs, instead of being unable to get called up. If we don't resign Brunner, that's a big loss. We lack right handed shots in the long haul (Alfie isn't the long haul). Sucks if we can't have both Tatar and Brunner.

Helm is a big addition, providing, he can stay healthy.

Honestly, I'm really happy we got Weiss. I probably would've preferred Lecavalier, but, like whitey said, his durability is a very serious issue. Besides, he made it pretty clear what his real priorities are, and winnng isn't among them.

Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Abdelkader

Franzen - Weiss - Alfredsson

I'm all about hating on Holland, but, really, that's damn sexy.

As for Brunner...meh. I was upset that we lost him, but, you know what? If losing a Damien Brunner is a huge blow to our Stanley Cup chances, we're in a lot of trouble. Plus, with Brunner and Nyquist and Tatar, we'd be beating the soft, smallish Euro thing past the point of death. And, knowing Babcock, he'd have them all pllaying in the bottom-six. So we'd get our asses kicked by Boston and cry.

"If I were to wish for anything, I should not wish for wealth and power, but for the passionate sense of the potential, for the eye which, ever young and ardent, sees the possible. Pleasure disappoints, possibility never. And what wine is so sparkling, what so fragrant, what so intoxicating, as possibility!" - Kierkegaard

It doesn't matter about when the money is paid. What matters is the cap hit. Z'ds cap hit is 6 million per year. be it the first year or last year of his deal. if he walks away, the cap hit could go up! So even in his last year, while making 1 million, the cap hit is 6 million. That is the part that matters. same is true with franzen and Kronwall. All are signed until they are 40 ish, and all have big cap hits.

The point of the post was Z's cap hit is no where close to what most high end players in the league make and how Holland got a cheap deal off of the best player in the league (Datsyuk) and a top 10 player in the league (Zetterberg). Look at Getzlafs contract.. 8.3 million cap hit? Are you kidding? Holland is a good GM he gets players cheaper than most GMs do. IMO It was a good thing he didnt waste his money on a declining Vecavelier for 5 years with a big pay check.

The point of the post was Z's cap hit is no where close to what most high end players in the league make and how Holland got a cheap deal off of the bet player in the league (Datsyuk) and a top 10 player in the league (Zetterberg). Look at Getzlafs contract.. 8.3 million cap hit? Are you kidding? Holland is a good GM he gets players cheaper than most GMs do. IMO It was a good thing he didnt waste his money on a declining Vecavelier for 5 years with a big pay check.

As much as I dislike Cleary, he's a hard worker. Babcock favors hard workers nothing the fans can do about that. Filpula was straight up useless during the season and his effort wasn't as much as it should have been on ice.

Also you're forgetting that Vinny made money off the buyout and he's getting paid by Flyers on top of that. Vinny is currently a very very rich man compared to most other players.

As for Brunner...meh. I was upset that we lost him, but, you know what? If losing a Damien Brunner is a huge blow to our Stanley Cup chances, we're in a lot of trouble. Plus, with Brunner and Nyquist and Tatar, we'd be beating the soft, smallish Euro thing past the point of death. And, knowing Babcock, he'd have them all pllaying in the bottom-six. So we'd get our asses kicked by Boston and cry.

Good point. Many folks have been crying over losing Brunner as a huge loss to the team. So dramatic that somehow they forget that fact that we have 3 future hall of famers on our top 6, one of the fastest centers in the league in our bottom six (helm) and two of the better NHL youngesters in the bottom six (Nyquist and Tatar). Losing Brunner is not as bad as people think it is.

Good point. Many folks have been crying over losing Brunner as a huge loss to the team. So dramatic that somehow they forget that fact that we have 3 future hall of famers on our top 6, one of the fastest centers in the league in our bottom six (helm) and two of the better NHL youngesters in the bottom six (Nyquist and Tatar). Losing Brunner is not as bad as people think it is.

As much as I dislike Cleary, he's a hard worker. Babcock favors hard workers nothing the fans can do about that. Filpula was straight up useless during the season and his effort wasn't as much as it should have been on ice.

Also you're forgetting that Vinny made money off the buyout and he's getting paid by Flyers on top of that. Vinny is currently a very very rich man compared to most other players.

Well, isn't that great he works hard. I'd rather have Franzen or Bobby Ryan floating and scoring 30 goals than Cleary missing a defensive assignment because he's so damn slow or Pavel looking invisible because he's saddled with Cleary on his line.

Well, isn't that great he works hard. I'd rather have Franzen or Bobby Ryan floating and scoring 30 goals than Cleary missing a defensive assignment because he's so damn slow or Pavel looking invisible because he's saddled with Cleary on his line.

But you're not the coach of the Detroit Red Wings and Babcock is, and he prefers a hard working cleary over a floating filpulla. It's as simple as that.

Why is it hard to type it all. You have no problem typing all of your frustrations.

I'm not a Brunner fanboy, so I don't care about him. I'd prefer Cleary on a line with Andy and Gus. At least Cleary can help in the defensive zone and kill penalties if needed.

Brunner played in the Swiss league for quite awhile. No NHL team wanted him until the Wings came calling. IMO, he's already had the best season he will ever have in the NHL. He's not made for this league, barring adding some major bulk.

It's Andersson, btw ... I think if you can spell players names, it adds to your credibility.

Thanks for calming down.

Nitpicking over spelling and not content makes you look like a total DB. I can spell that out it you'd like.

People give Holland crap when he stands pat, and they give him crap when he makes moves. Can't please everyone.

Personally, I love the moves this off-season. Shaping up to be the best Wings roster in several years, and it seems like there are still a few more moves to come - either trades or just shedding weight.

The latest news on Helm is encouraging and DeKeyser should be back as well. Call me crazy, but things are looking pretty good for next season, I can't wait.

People give Holland crap when he stands pat, and they give him crap when he makes moves. Can't please everyone.

Personally, I love the moves this off-season. Shaping up to be the best Wings roster in several years, and it seems like there are still a few more moves to come - either trades or just shedding weight.

The latest news on Helm is encouraging and DeKeyser should be back as well. Call me crazy, but things are looking pretty good for next season, I can't wait.

I'll be happy IF Sammy is on LTIR for the entire season, IF Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Alfie don't play their age, IF all the kids perform as well as they did last season (or better in Smith's case), IF Jimmy continues to steal games for us and make our defense look better than it is, IF Bertuzzi and Cleary can be effective, IF Franzen has a very productive year, IF Helm are Weiss are healthy and regain their form, and IF we find goal scoring from guys we didn't know had it in them.

There are a lot of question marks going into this season, just like last season. Contrary to what I said all season, Babcock had a plan and got a lot out of a little. He did well. I hope he can do it again because I don't feel really comfortable going into a hockey season in today's NHL when none of our best players are in their prime and all of our young guys haven't show that they can help shoulder the load. It puts way too much pressure on guys like Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Kronwall to carry the load and none of those guys are going to produce the way they have in the past.

I'll be happy IF Sammy is on LTIR for the entire season, IF Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Alfie don't play their age, IF all the kids perform as well as they did last season (or better in Smith's case), IF Jimmy continues to steal games for us and make our defense look better than it is, IF Bertuzzi and Cleary can be effective, IF Franzen has a very productive year, IF Helm are Weiss are healthy and regain their form, and IF we find goal scoring from guys we didn't know had it in them.

There are a lot of question marks going into this season, just like last season. Contrary to what I said all season, Babcock had a plan and got a lot out of a little. He did well. I hope he can do it again because I don't feel really comfortable going into a hockey season in today's NHL when none of our best players are in their prime and all of our young guys haven't show that they can help shoulder the load. It puts way too much pressure on guys like Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Kronwall to carry the load and none of those guys are going to produce the way they have in the past.

I think you hit the nail on the head. I think too many fans are remembering the Wings team that was up 3-1 on the Hawks, not the lethargic, offensively challenged team we saw for most of the season that couldn't score on the PP, that couldn't get the big PK when needed, that couldn't clear the zone.

Zetterberg looked like a HOF'er the first 10 games and the last 10 games, but in between he was decidedly average. Pavel had some great highlights from last season, but he was a notch below what he once was and won't likely be that player again. Will we ever seen the Franzen of the 2008 playoffs again? Who knows.

Good God, I was hoping sarcasm too. I love that 2 players can somehow be greater than or equal to 1 single player. My brain exploded thinking about: "maybe its contracts, maybe i'm not seeing something." Then I saw stillwater post. I was appeased. I'm pissed we lost Fil, as he could have helped us get a great pick on Waivers. Or just won the Grif's another Title. Anywho, Brunner is overrated. Alfie is overrated with like 426 goals or Steph(ve) Weiss(erman), I really don't know about because he played for a team that played home games in 'God's Waiting Room". Anyone can do well there ... Kopecky, ring a bell? Although his youtube package is within ranks of the great Pavel Bure and Bob Probert (Viceversa?) I just hope the Wings Sign a BIG FIGHTER to bash people's craniums, OR ELSE we are never going to win the Cup and we should FIRE HOLLAND!

(Hey guys, just my intro to the forums. I know I will have to explain the dry humor eventually, but I figure i'll mention it for people not contextually hint savy ;p I truly love hockey and the Detroit Red Wings. They are the first loves and only loves of my life and I believe I share a pretty intelligent but unique view on NHL activities. Line Configurations, Plays, Commentators, Overpaid Players, Overhyped things, maybe I'm a hater? NO! I grew up in and around the Joe continue to go to there as a Stress Management tool...AGHH ANGRY! I will be here a lot more often, any criticism of me is straight...but don't hate on Pavel Datsyuk or Sean Avery and you're straight in my book.

I never liked that deal much. I don't think he put us over the top in 2002, and I do think Osgood would've been able to pull it off without a hitch. He did it twice with lesser teams than that ridiculous 2002 squad. But that trade sent Kozlov, who was always a solid playoff performer for us, packing. It also introduced the era featuring the only drama this team has had to deal with internally in a long time. If we had stuck with Osgood and kept Kozlov, I think we would've won even more Cups in that period, to be completely honest.

That said, given how many issues Dom has had in his career, I thought he handled his final ousting a few years ago with a tremendous amount of class and I was happy to see him be able to retire from the NHL raising the Cup with such a sincere smile on his face. He could've easily become a locker room distraction after getting pulled, but he really was a class act throughout that run where he was forced to play a backup role.

So again, hell of a career, but I honestly wish the Wings had skipped being a part of it in some ways.

I respect your opinion but I think your way off.

I love Kozlov but Dom set the shutouts record that playoff. Not to mention the near impossible to quantify theory that a team plays much more confident in front of a stellar goaltender (which Osgood was not).

I think you hit the nail on the head. I think too many fans are remembering the Wings team that was up 3-1 on the Hawks, not the lethargic, offensively challenged team we saw for most of the season that couldn't score on the PP, that couldn't get the big PK when needed, that couldn't clear the zone.

Zetterberg looked like a HOF'er the first 10 games and the last 10 games, but in between he was decidedly average. Pavel had some great highlights from last season, but he was a notch below what he once was and won't likely be that player again. Will we ever seen the Franzen of the 2008 playoffs again? Who knows.

Ok...cmon. Pav was a point per game highlight machine (TSN's play of the year vote was Datsyuk vs Datsyuk). He dominated this year. He had a less productive playoff but he by no means regressed.

People give Holland crap when he stands pat, and they give him crap when he makes moves. Can't please everyone.

Personally, I love the moves this off-season. Shaping up to be the best Wings roster in several years, and it seems like there are still a few more moves to come - either trades or just shedding weight.

The latest news on Helm is encouraging and DeKeyser should be back as well. Call me crazy, but things are looking pretty good for next season, I can't wait.