Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 22:08 - Oct 19 by Humpty

Read the comments under the Crace piece that Monny linked to. Thoroughly depressing.

Some people praising Starmer for his speech and saying what a difference it would make if he was leader, only to be jumped on by rabid Corbynistas shouting Blairite, Tory lite, neocon, etc.

One poor deluded soul thinks Starmer is good at details but Corbyn is better at electioneering. Yeah, that's why Labour can't stop winning elections and are doing so well in the f*cking polls innit!

There you go Corbynistas. Enjoy a perpetual Tory government moving ever further to the right. You bloody idiots.

They spent 18 years in opposition between 1979 and 1997 until Teflon Tony took them back to power, I suspect that they are going to be in opposition until 2024 or 2025 they way things are going. Corbyn is, to the majority of the UK unelectable.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 22:45 - Oct 19 with 668 views

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 22:45 - Oct 19 by monmouth

It sounds like a pathetic sulking little child.

Quite.

Unacceptable behaviour from an “adult”, yet alone the Prime Minister.

Also I note the leader of the house made a bizarre statement in which he claimed they would re-run the Letwin amendment vote on Monday (which of course they cant), then left in a huff before taking any questions or points of order.

Good to see such maturity, integrity and competence at the heart of our government.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 23:47 - Oct 19 with 576 views

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 23:40 - Oct 19 by Jonathans_coat

Quite.

Unacceptable behaviour from an “adult”, yet alone the Prime Minister.

Also I note the leader of the house made a bizarre statement in which he claimed they would re-run the Letwin amendment vote on Monday (which of course they cant), then left in a huff before taking any questions or points of order.

Good to see such maturity, integrity and competence at the heart of our government.

It’s what a public school education gets you. Embarrassing isn’t the word!

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 23:03 - Oct 19 by exiledclaseboy

Stick to Canada, son, although they don’t deserve you.

Three letters sent tonight. The courts will be busy next week.

Nah. I don’t think they’ll need to be.

The side letters are for media consumption - to make the idiot supporters of Johnson think he’s playing tough via the medium of Laura Kuenssberg and Robert Peston. They’re irrelevant. Just all been hyped up for weeks.

If you read Tusk’s response, he ignores the sideshow and treats the extension request as received.

That complies with the Benn Act. Johnson’s second letter if read closely doesn’t say he won’t accept an extension offered. The only bit that could be contentious is where he makes vague mention of it threatening future relationship. It’s quite careful in its wording.

If the EU are smart, they’ll now offer an extension of 9 months or so.

Ok, conspiracy time. If I was the PM and wanted to make sure the EU offered an extension even if a few are wavering, I’d do what he’s done. Because if they now refuse an extension, the courts may take a view that they have, after all, been influenced by the second letter. So they offer one, which Johnson possibly wants, but he can say ‘not my fault’ in an election - look, I even sent another letter saying I didn’t want one.

Or maybe he’s an idiot, making mistake after mistake.

[Post edited 19 Oct 2019 23:49]

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 23:55 - Oct 19 with 562 views

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 23:48 - Oct 19 by londonlisa2001

Nah. I don’t think they’ll need to be.

The side letters are for media consumption - to make the idiot supporters of Johnson think he’s playing tough via the medium of Laura Kuenssberg and Robert Peston. They’re irrelevant. Just all been hyped up for weeks.

If you read Tusk’s response, he ignores the sideshow and treats the extension request as received.

That complies with the Benn Act. Johnson’s second letter if read closely doesn’t say he won’t accept an extension offered. The only bit that could be contentious is where he makes vague mention of it threatening future relationship. It’s quite careful in its wording.

If the EU are smart, they’ll now offer an extension of 9 months or so.

Ok, conspiracy time. If I was the PM and wanted to make sure the EU offered an extension even if a few are wavering, I’d do what he’s done. Because if they now refuse an extension, the courts may take a view that they have, after all, been influenced by the second letter. So they offer one, which Johnson possibly wants, but he can say ‘not my fault’ in an election - look, I even sent another letter saying I didn’t want one.

Or maybe he’s an idiot, making mistake after mistake.

[Post edited 19 Oct 2019 23:49]

Let’s not forget that if the withdrawal agreement bill is passed any extension lapses and we leave.

Am I correct in saying the Benn act compels the PM to write a letter requesting an extension? Assuming he’s done that, (although he forgot to sign it possibly because he’s a bit of a tw&t) any other further correspondence he is free to write what he wants. I mean they can’t control him forever. There are rules against controlling people’s actions indefinitely. If he immediately writes another letter saying “sorry lads, ignore that last letter. I was pissed and a bit of a moron” it is surely simultaneously legal and believable?

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 23:59 - Oct 19 by Highjack

Am I correct in saying the Benn act compels the PM to write a letter requesting an extension? Assuming he’s done that, (although he forgot to sign it possibly because he’s a bit of a tw&t) any other further correspondence he is free to write what he wants. I mean they can’t control him forever. There are rules against controlling people’s actions indefinitely. If he immediately writes another letter saying “sorry lads, ignore that last letter. I was pissed and a bit of a moron” it is surely simultaneously legal and believable?

Issue will be if he's wilfully seen to frustrate the legal requirements by immediately seeking to render them null and void. There was some expectation of that. Cherry seems to think he's overstepped but we'll see.

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 23:48 - Oct 19 by londonlisa2001

Nah. I don’t think they’ll need to be.

The side letters are for media consumption - to make the idiot supporters of Johnson think he’s playing tough via the medium of Laura Kuenssberg and Robert Peston. They’re irrelevant. Just all been hyped up for weeks.

If you read Tusk’s response, he ignores the sideshow and treats the extension request as received.

That complies with the Benn Act. Johnson’s second letter if read closely doesn’t say he won’t accept an extension offered. The only bit that could be contentious is where he makes vague mention of it threatening future relationship. It’s quite careful in its wording.

If the EU are smart, they’ll now offer an extension of 9 months or so.

Ok, conspiracy time. If I was the PM and wanted to make sure the EU offered an extension even if a few are wavering, I’d do what he’s done. Because if they now refuse an extension, the courts may take a view that they have, after all, been influenced by the second letter. So they offer one, which Johnson possibly wants, but he can say ‘not my fault’ in an election - look, I even sent another letter saying I didn’t want one.

Or maybe he’s an idiot, making mistake after mistake.

[Post edited 19 Oct 2019 23:49]

EU will grant an extension. As you say Boris has to sell it to a domestic audience. As for Laura and Robert the press conference in Brussels following the deal told you all you need to know. Both desperate to keep on the inside.

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 23:59 - Oct 19 by Highjack

Am I correct in saying the Benn act compels the PM to write a letter requesting an extension? Assuming he’s done that, (although he forgot to sign it possibly because he’s a bit of a tw&t) any other further correspondence he is free to write what he wants. I mean they can’t control him forever. There are rules against controlling people’s actions indefinitely. If he immediately writes another letter saying “sorry lads, ignore that last letter. I was pissed and a bit of a moron” it is surely simultaneously legal and believable?

Signing or not signing a letter is a nonsense distraction. It doesn’t matter as long as it’s obviously from the sender. Emails count these days.

The law requires him to do nothing to frustrate the action he’s required to do. The second letter from him in this case sails close to the wind, but doesn’t really frustrate the request (which it would do, for example if he sent one saying ‘ignore the first one’ or ‘I won’t accept an extension so don’t bother’). And yes, that applies forever. Until it falls away by either an extension being given, or possibly refused.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 00:10 - Oct 20 with 528 views

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 00:01 - Oct 20 by londonlisa2001

It depends when it passes surely. Before or after any date change. And the wording of any extension.

It’s complex and I’m a bit pissed so this may be way off the mark. But the EU could/will/should agree an extension to 31 January which is what Johnson has just asked for. But if the withdrawal agreement bill is passed in full before that then we leave on whatever date that bill becomes an act. The government is still planning for that to happen by 31 October but that bill will attract a lot of amendments...

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 00:03 - Oct 20 by Uxbridge

Issue will be if he's wilfully seen to frustrate the legal requirements by immediately seeking to render them null and void. There was some expectation of that. Cherry seems to think he's overstepped but we'll see.

The funny thing about Cherry’s response, is that it is probably partly based on what was expected rather than what happened. Johnson is deliberately trying to provoke. And has built up to it for weeks by pretending he wouldn’t comply or promising a second letter saying he didn’t want an extension. But the letter doesn’t actually say that. Sailing close to the wind, but Tusk’s response took the wind away really. It just makes Johnson look like a complete arsehole. Even more of one. If that’s possible.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 00:13 - Oct 20 with 524 views

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 00:01 - Oct 20 by londonlisa2001

It depends when it passes surely. Before or after any date change. And the wording of any extension.

DUP backing a second ref could make things very interesting. As I recall they would have made the difference last time parliament voted on it. They seem likely to do anything to stop this deal now. All things are now possible, possibly even in combination.

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 00:11 - Oct 20 by londonlisa2001

The funny thing about Cherry’s response, is that it is probably partly based on what was expected rather than what happened. Johnson is deliberately trying to provoke. And has built up to it for weeks by pretending he wouldn’t comply or promising a second letter saying he didn’t want an extension. But the letter doesn’t actually say that. Sailing close to the wind, but Tusk’s response took the wind away really. It just makes Johnson look like a complete arsehole. Even more of one. If that’s possible.

I see what you're saying. And I agree it probably doesn't matter if Tusk response is taken at face value.