You can attach them together to create a bigger keyboard. I ordered 2 for now. Even though I like the spongy Roli feel of the seaboard their description of the Lumis keys and keybed sounds good for when I want something closer to traditional.

You can attach them together to create a bigger keyboard. I ordered 2 for now. Even though I like the spongy Roli feel of the seaboard their description of the Lumis keys and keybed sounds good for when I want something closer to traditional.

Looks to me like Roli are in financial difficulty if they have to go to crowdfunding to develop a new product. I thought they had gained a big backer at some point?

Maybe this should be in a new thread rather than hijack the current Behringer one?

Looking back this thread started 2 years ago probably at a time when a number of us wouldn’t even consider using Behringer gear for serious work. My how things change. There is much lusting after their gear now in these pages, err, posts

A year ago, Roli had raised over $50 million since 2014, and at that time Sony were investing in them as well. Something tells me that if they now have to kickstart a new project, then most of that money has gone in paying high salaries and not where it should have gone.

Companies often Kickstarter a new project - it's part of a process to determine how keen people might be for a product, not necessarily because the company doesn't have the money to make the product in the first place....

They raised more than 2 mil so perhaps the people have decided the project should exist. Kinda brilliant in a way. If they only raised a few thousand then the project would not have happened. So instead of guessing what people might want they asked.

I would think in the beginning that there must have been some anxious wringing of hands at Behringer when they decided to go down the clone path, not knowing the demand.

As for salaries and other compensations I have no idea what Roli are doing. Having 50 mil in the bank would tempt a lot of people to reassess their personal value to a company.

Speaking about the fact that Roland or Yamaha lost the opportunity to remake their classic synths.Well, Roland has always been looking ahead, I guess they know that a fashion is just a fashion.What's the sense of using a real 808 in 2019?It's big, takes a lot of space, nobody really needs something like that today, who needs all the outputs and such a space-eating tool?You can have the same or near the same with a small sampler (even a volca or a 404) packed with 808 samples, for example.But then fashion is fashion and mr. B seems good in sensing or supporting a fashion.Same for odissey and Moog.Roland has a very interesting Cloud with all its classic instruments, and also Korg gadget goes this way.They just missed there could have been a trend of nostalgia, maybe influenced by the fact that many young people still listen to music of 30 or more years ago as a strong inspiration, because that was the top of western music culture.But trends and fashions come and go quite fast, and I am not sure this new vintage cloned synths will keep the market for so long.But I could also be wrong.

Langur wrote:Speaking about the fact that Roland or Yamaha lost the opportunity to remake their classic synths.Well, Roland has always been looking ahead, I guess they know that a fashion is just a fashion.What's the sense of using a real 808 in 2019?It's big, takes a lot of space, nobody really needs something like that today, who needs all the outputs and such a space-eating tool?You can have the same or near the same with a small sampler (even a volca or a 404) packed with 808 samples, for example.But then fashion is fashion and mr. B seems good in sensing or supporting a fashion.Same for odissey and Moog.Roland has a very interesting Cloud with all its classic instruments, and also Korg gadget goes this way.They just missed there could have been a trend of nostalgia, maybe influenced by the fact that many young people still listen to music of 30 or more years ago as a strong inspiration, because that was the top of western music culture.But trends and fashions come and go quite fast, and I am not sure this new vintage cloned synths will keep the market for so long.But I could also be wrong.

I think this whole vintage reissue thing has nothing to do with actually making music, it's about the "stuff" as an object in itself. No one is going to argue that in a mix listened to on typical ear buds on the tube anyone is going to notice or care that a certain sound didn't come from an original Mini Moog, a reissue, an app, or a software synth, and they won't care either. These reissues are for those of us who are into all that, and if making music and being as efficient and cost effective as possible while doing it was the order of the day, then a phone or a tablet will do the job just fine. It doesn't look cool, it's boring, but it will make music just the same as a studio full of gear.I've got a couple of Teenage Engineering Pocket Opertaors, it's actually quite frightening what you can do with those on their own, in the palm of your hand.

Langur wrote:Speaking about the fact that Roland or Yamaha lost the opportunity to remake their classic synths.Well, Roland has always been looking ahead, I guess they know that a fashion is just a fashion.What's the sense of using a real 808 in 2019?It's big, takes a lot of space, nobody really needs something like that today, who needs all the outputs and such a space-eating tool?You can have the same or near the same with a small sampler (even a volca or a 404) packed with 808 samples, for example.But then fashion is fashion and mr. B seems good in sensing or supporting a fashion.Same for odissey and Moog.Roland has a very interesting Cloud with all its classic instruments, and also Korg gadget goes this way.They just missed there could have been a trend of nostalgia, maybe influenced by the fact that many young people still listen to music of 30 or more years ago as a strong inspiration, because that was the top of western music culture.But trends and fashions come and go quite fast, and I am not sure this new vintage cloned synths will keep the market for so long.But I could also be wrong.

I think this whole vintage reissue thing has nothing to do with actually making music, it's about the "stuff" as an object in itself. No one is going to argue that in a mix listened to on typical ear buds on the tube anyone is going to notice or care that a certain sound didn't come from an original Mini Moog, a reissue, an app, or a software synth, and they won't care either. These reissues are for those of us who are into all that, and if making music and being as efficient and cost effective as possible while doing it was the order of the day, then a phone or a tablet will do the job just fine. It doesn't look cool, it's boring, but it will make music just the same as a studio full of gear.I've got a couple of Teenage Engineering Pocket Opertaors, it's actually quite frightening what you can do with those on their own, in the palm of your hand.

Yeah more or less I agree with you.So you more or less agree that this clone fashion is a fashion, I mean who needs this clunky big old stuff to produce music? It's just having a gear that represents something, a reference to a music period or a music idol and so on.Clones enthusiast here and there blame Roland or Yamaha or Korg to miss the opportunity, but the truth is there are different strategies. Those big historic brands became popular because of producing always new products and push the technologic border a bit more ahead, through innovations and research. Other brands just go back, no innovation, no research, filling the nostalgia gap.If there is something to do with music itself, it's not important though, you use what you have- a clone, an original one, a softsynth, a cloud, whatever.It's more or less the same as airplanes.People who travel for work, still use major national companies. People who want to save money, use low cost. But low cost, as it happened to me twice, can mean no space on airplane for overbooking and waiting a day for next plane.With big national companies, this doesn't happen.So I hope they can live together and satisfy different kind of people.The worst case scenario would be lowcost replacing national companies.

The Elf wrote:There will always be a market for 'clones' of successful products.

There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey. (Jon Ruskin 1819-1900)

But that's the trouble Elf, often it's really good, not worse in terms of sonics, the build and ergonomics may not be "ideal" but the sound is fine. Like the Behringer D, I couldn't tell the difference between that and my Mini Moog, it was actually shockingly good.And I'm sure the other Berry clones are just the same.I think in terms of sound generation and new types of synthesis the hardware keyboard has had its day, and it's in software these days, but are we really that interested in new types of sounds, are we REALLY??? I think it's all getting a bit same year, and how many sounds do we need for gods sake, maybe it's all peaked out.And that's why people are still using old synths, and buying clones.

Arpangel wrote:And that's why people are still using old synths, and buying clones.

And guitars, and violins, and pianos. Even the bassoon!

They're all just instruments, people will like them or not and want to play them or not, and if new synthesis is mostly (but not always) software, well, maybe one day there'll be a set of laptops at the Albert Hall for the proms, but it's all good as long as it makes noise :)

Arpangel wrote:And that's why people are still using old synths, and buying clones.

And guitars, and violins, and pianos. Even the bassoon!

They're all just instruments, people will like them or not and want to play them or not, and if new synthesis is mostly (but not always) software, well, maybe one day there'll be a set of laptops at the Albert Hall for the proms, but it's all good as long as it makes noise :)

The Elf wrote:There will always be a market for 'clones' of successful products.There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey. (Jon Ruskin 1819-1900)

Yeah but as far as I know, it's the first time that a big corporation relies only (or almost only) on clones.

Ahem... Have you looked at the vast range of products that Behringer produce?!!