I just got back into jumping after 30+ years and used the club's old racer. I was so impressed by it that I bought a used 2K3. The rig didn't fit (too big) but was very happy with the improvements over the older racer, except for the tuck tab riser covers. They kept un-tucking. I think part of the problem was because the rig didn't fit well over the shoulders. Anyway, I sold the rig and ordered a new 2K3. It comes with magnetic riser covers. I hope my new rig looks as good as yours. Smart choice.

Here a guy thanks folks for their input by proudly showing his new rig and you bring up unrelated shit ! Man , i'll bet you're smooth with the ladies too,,, by the way i see you're from the UK,,How's your teeth ? Does that make any sense in this thread ?

You actually bought a Racer???? I'm just kidding..... that is a good looking rig! I have a good amount of friends that are very loyal to their Racers. I love my rig but man you Racer guys are crazy in love with your rigs ;)

Id say it took about 6 weeks give or take a few days, I kept changing stuff. Jennine there was pretty patient with me shes awesome to deal with and I also got a few calls from Nancy that showed me alot about the company I love my racers man. Call up there and ask to talk to Jennine she'll let you know about the progress.

The new Racers are nothing like the old and are worth a second look. Only the pop-top remained the same. No flap over the PC. It is totally free-fly friendly, magnetic riser covers, protected reserve pins, and oh yeah, comfortable too. Because of its tailoring it isn't like a brick or a box on your back. The service that Jumpshack provides is excellent and personal. A Racer is like the Mac of rigs, and not the PC.

The new Racers are nothing like the old and are worth a second look. Only the pop-top remained the same. No flap over the PC. It is totally free-fly friendly, magnetic riser covers, protected reserve pins, and oh yeah, comfortable too. Because of its tailoring it isn't like a brick or a box on your back. The service that Jumpshack provides is excellent and personal. A Racer is like the Mac of rigs, and not the PC.

I know, I own three Racer's (one of which is a 2K3) and a Strong pop top. I know a lot about Racer's and Jumpshack's services so you don't have to preach to the choir. I was pretty much factory trained. I was just making a reference to what was said with two pins being 80's tech when one-pin reserve came out in the 70's.

so what? at least there are some people (read gear designers/manufacturers) left who bother to think outside the box. personally i like the thought that there is more outside than just clones of the b-guys ideas

I can stretch that chain of deductions into being unsafe, but that obviously is a stretch.

many new riggers don't know how to pack a Racer or how to pack it well. The recent tandem double fatality occurred because of a misrouted RSL. Of course you can argue that it was the riggers fault - and I would have to agree. However, when the system is build so different from what's the "standard" - it's hard to be current on it, and humans will always make mistakes.

Wasn't it Jumpshack that in the late 80s/early 90s insisted on having a 4ft main bridle ?

Personally, they way I see it, once the "old school" jumpers stop jumping , Jumpshack will run out of customers :(

(for the purpose of this thread, lets define old school as consisting of mostly four digit USPA D-numbers and foreign equivalents)

I think what is keeping jumpshack alive more than anything is JCO metals their company that builds handles, ripcords and pins. They supply most of the industry with them. Their military contracts probably help as well.

Really once John Sherman retires the company will probably start to do a lot better. I have never met him personally but met pretty much everyone else there. My impression is that he really controls how some of the things are because he designed it and doesn't want it to be changed or it is of the nature that he tells people what they need and want. If they acted more like other companies where they listened more to the customer and gave them a product they asked for I feel they would do better. After all that is why some of the companies have grown to the size they have.

Personally, they way I see it, once the "old school" jumpers stop jumping , Jumpshack will run out of customers :(

(for the purpose of this thread, lets define old school as consisting of mostly four digit USPA D-numbers and foreign equivalents)

I think what is keeping jumpshack alive more than anything is JCO metals there company that builds handles, ripcords and pins. They supply most of the industry with them. Their military contracts probably help as well.

Really once John Sherman retires the company will probably start to do a lot better. I have never met him personally but met pretty much everyone else there. My impression is that he really controls how some of the things are because he designed it and doesn't want it to be changed or it is of the nature that he tells people what they need and want. If they acted more like other companies where they listened more to the customer and gave them a product they asked for I feel they would do better. After all that is why some of the companies have grown to the size they have.

and I agree 150% with you !

Jumpshack gives me an impression of a stubborn, and extremely unwilling to change company. From talking to many of the people who have been around much longer then me, and having come from an all-Racer dropzone I have seen and worked with plenty of gear to back up what I say. To me, the magnetic riser covers are about the only useful feature that Jumpshack has.

whoever mentioned brand wars may not realize that I have jumped ALL the containers that have passed through me (that I could fit into :), which is to say pretty much all the even mildly popular stuff in the US for the last 20 years - so I say what I say based on a fair bit of first hand experience rather than on having owned a single brand and sticking with it.

I agree, well for the most part. There are a couple more features that I like but I really don't know how much they really make a difference or if they would be enough for me to purchase or recommend a Racer over something else.

I do want to mention something about comfort that many people bring up with these rigs. They are comfortable but there are plenty of comfortable rigs out there some much more than the Racer. Last year I did 202 jumps in 24 hours and the rig that was really helping me out as far as comfort goes was not the Racer 2K3 that is sized for me but another rig from another manufacturer. Doing 5-10 jumps in a day, pretty much any rig that fits will be comfortable. Doing a lot more than that and things change quite a bit.

I agree with you on redesign. When you have a product that works the way it is supposed to why would you redesign it? Most designs happen because there is some flaw in the product. As for the development part, I disagree with you 100%. There has been developments from JumpShack and some have been fairly large.

IMHO...Racers are no more difficult to pack than any other manufacturer. I would infact rather pack my racer than my mirage (those springs are a pain in the ass). Racers are just different, but the rsl routing is basically the same and the gear check is the same, meaning if you can't tell that an RSL is misrouted on a Javelin I doubt you could tell on a racer or any other rig for that matter. I just got a javelin in the other day that had an rsl all twisted to shit. It was routed properly but twisted to the point that I knew the jumper wasn't checking his gear properly prior to jumping it so I showed him the way it should be.

Bottom line is that I hear many "newer" jumpers simply repeating the opinions that others have about the racer without having any experience/knowledge of the rig. I'm neutral on rig, I do like the newer freefly friendly additions but I'm not sold on the "speedbag".

Here a guy thanks folks for their input by proudly showing his new rig and you bring up unrelated shit ! Man , i'll bet you're smooth with the ladies too,,, by the way i see you're from the UK,,How's your teeth ? Does that make any sense in this thread ?

Personally, they way I see it, once the "old school" jumpers stop jumping , Jumpshack will run out of customers :(

(for the purpose of this thread, lets define old school as consisting of mostly four digit USPA D-numbers and foreign equivalents)

I think what is keeping jumpshack alive more than anything is JCO metals there company that builds handles, ripcords and pins. They supply most of the industry with them. Their military contracts probably help as well.

Really once John Sherman retires the company will probably start to do a lot better. I have never met him personally but met pretty much everyone else there. My impression is that he really controls how some of the things are because he designed it and doesn't want it to be changed or it is of the nature that he tells people what they need and want. If they acted more like other companies where they listened more to the customer and gave them a product they asked for I feel they would do better. After all that is why some of the companies have grown to the size they have.

and I agree 150% with you !

Jumpshack gives me an impression of a stubborn, and extremely unwilling to change company. From talking to many of the people who have been around much longer then me, and having come from an all-Racer dropzone I have seen and worked with plenty of gear to back up what I say. To me, the magnetic riser covers are about the only useful feature that Jumpshack has.

whoever mentioned brand wars may not realize that I have jumped ALL the containers that have passed through me (that I could fit into :), which is to say pretty much all the even mildly popular stuff in the US for the last 20 years - so I say what I say based on a fair bit of first hand experience rather than on having owned a single brand and sticking with it.

To downtoearth: My friend that is a beautiful rig you've got there!!! I hope you enjoy it half as much as I enjoy mine!!! And oh by the way I just ordered my new one and will post pics here hopefully soon for you to admire. I apologize for the rant I'm about to go off on but, I wish people would just admire what is there to admire or shut the hell up and go blast somewhere else.

To beatnik and likestojump and all the other blasters out there:

Well guys you've pretty much blasted this thread with all the BS you could muster, just because YOU think that the Racer is not the greatest thing in the world. Oh well you don't like it shut the hell up!!! This guy is just trying to show his pretty new rig to the community and you guys have to blast his thread with your crap. You want to start an anti-racer thread by all means, go right ahead. Let this guy get the satisfaction of showing off his new purchase without hearing a bunch of crap for doing so. Yes I am a Racer owner and am also a Mirage owner. I pack both my reserves and have no problem with either. Any reserve can be difficult to pack, but a true rigger learns the tips and tricks to properly and neatly pack each container.

Yes Beatnik, JCO is a lot of what is keeping the doors open at Jump Shack... So?!? John Sherman is retired, yes he still ha an say with what happens with his designs. Is he ready to make the change and add several pounds of extra padding and BS to his already comfortable rig to make it sell better? Probably not... should he bow down to the masses who say he has a "rig of death" that shouldn't be manufactured? I think not... How many fatalities have you read about that had something go wrong on this "rig of death"?!? You could bring up the Tandem Fatality (human error) but other than that.... Yea nothing....

So say what you will but I call it simplicity in motion and yes the KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) principle was brought up earlier, well I don't see Jump Shack having to engineer flaps to protect their pins, engineering a whole new rig to make sure that it is freefly friendly (oh yea the guys that started freeflying years ago, most did it with a Racer because the rig was already "freefly friendly") You say that the other rigs are based on "new technology" but the only things that have evolved in this sport are the canopies, rigs are the same as the were in the 80's and 90's. The only thins to be introduced was the use of Cypress's and their followers (Vigil and Argus) and now the Skyhook. All these container systems have the same components, just some have a flashy new look.

Yes I am done now... I have yelled at you for doing the same thing I just did to you, but at least I had the freaking courtesy to admire the rig and send my congrats to the OP before I went off on a tangent about something that has absolutely nothing to do with the original post..... Oh and if you want to blast me please feel free to send me a PM so this thread doesn't have to put up with any more insanity...

Excuse me if I still stick to my opinion. I think that a new jumper will do better buying a used popular brand container rather than a new Racer or a Dolphin. You can write another page of how Racer is a popular container, but if you go around the DZs of the world you will be quite surprised to find that it's just not true.

So what ? That being said..now what ? The guy was showing off his new rig,,let em' why do you want to suck the joy out of everything. I've said before after a few years all "containers" are within a few hundred $ of each other..is that worth blowing your load all over the monitor ? Dude , enjoy your life,

So what ? That being said..now what ? The guy was showing off his new rig,,let em' why do you want to suck the joy out of everything. I've said before after a few years all "containers" are within a few hundred $ of each other..is that worth blowing your load all over the monitor ? Dude , enjoy your life,

and I have empirical evidence that certain containers hold their value a lot better than others. I don't want to suck anything, including the joy out of everything. And I enjoy my life plenty, thank you !

Well guys you've pretty much blasted this thread with all the BS you could muster, just because YOU think that the Racer is not the greatest thing in the world. Oh well you don't like it shut the hell up!!! This guy is just trying to show his pretty new rig to the community and you guys have to blast his thread with your crap. You want to start an anti-racer thread by all means, go right ahead. Let this guy get the satisfaction of showing off his new purchase without hearing a bunch of crap for doing so. Yes I am a Racer owner and am also a Mirage owner. I pack both my reserves and have no problem with either. Any reserve can be difficult to pack, but a true rigger learns the tips and tricks to properly and neatly pack each container.

Yes Beatnik, JCO is a lot of what is keeping the doors open at Jump Shack... So?!? John Sherman is retired, yes he still ha an say with what happens with his designs. Is he ready to make the change and add several pounds of extra padding and BS to his already comfortable rig to make it sell better? Probably not... should he bow down to the masses who say he has a "rig of death" that shouldn't be manufactured? I think not... How many fatalities have you read about that had something go wrong on this "rig of death"?!? You could bring up the Tandem Fatality (human error) but other than that.... Yea nothing....

So say what you will but I call it simplicity in motion and yes the KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) principle was brought up earlier, well I don't see Jump Shack having to engineer flaps to protect their pins, engineering a whole new rig to make sure that it is freefly friendly (oh yea the guys that started freeflying years ago, most did it with a Racer because the rig was already "freefly friendly") You say that the other rigs are based on "new technology" but the only things that have evolved in this sport are the canopies, rigs are the same as the were in the 80's and 90's. The only thins to be introduced was the use of Cypress's and their followers (Vigil and Argus) and now the Skyhook. All these container systems have the same components, just some have a flashy new look.

Yes I am done now... I have yelled at you for doing the same thing I just did to you, but at least I had the freaking courtesy to admire the rig and send my congrats to the OP before I went off on a tangent about something that has absolutely nothing to do with the original post..... Oh and if you want to blast me please feel free to send me a PM so this thread doesn't have to put up with any more insanity...

Mentioning your opinions of a rig is hardly blasting it. I own three Racers and I like them very much and continue to jump them so get your facts straight before blowing your BS off on me. There are things I like about it and things I don't and I am not going to say that it is the greatest rig in the world if I don't think so even if I like them a lot.

The point about JCO supporting JumpShack must have went right over your head so I will bring it down a little for you. JumpShack wouldn't have been able to survive as a company and continue making rigs if it wasn't for their other company keeping them alive. Whether or not the product is good or not doesn't matter with this since they would have went the same way as many other businesses have done in the skydiving industry.

If you want to defend John Sherman. Why don't you talk to some of the people who have designed and built custom rigs at the factory. My friend Nykolas when he worked there built a pretty sweet rig to his own cosmetic designs. John Sherman didn't like it because it didn't have the pinstripes on the main pin cover like he likes. Restricting people to your own views of cosmetics is not a good thing.

I thought the rig was super comfortable as well that is until I tried some other rigs and did a lot of jumps on them. Here is a challenge to you on the comfort factor. I will challenge you to do 100 jumps in one day under a Racer and then doo 100 jumps in one day on a rig that offers the spacer foam and then tell me which rig you think is more comfortable. I have done both of these things and I will continue to speak on my personal experience with these rigs. Unless you have done that, don't comment on my post of comfort. Any rig will be comfortable for half a dozen jumps in a day. Also, the design that made the Racer one of the most comfortable rigs out there was lost when they switched to the current design.

I have never brought up a rig of death that you have speak of. So please don't start putting words in my mouth and stop running yours off.

What are you talking about with JumpShack not redesigning their rig to make it freefly friendly. That is why they redesigned the whole rig and came up with the 2K3 model. Their other design they had wasn't freefly friendly and they re-engineered the whole thing.

I will call you on your last comment that canopies are the only thing that has evolved in the sport. Look at the reserve system on the Seven. I think that is pretty new and not something that other manufacturers have done. You could look at the articulated harnesses, magnetic covers, flaps to prevent lines from getting caught. To me you don't seem to know what you are talking about. If you want to talk canopies, lets look at some of the things that are out there. Crossbracing has been around for over 20 years starting with the excalibur. There has been a airlock patent since the 60's and the big change with canopies, zero-p, happened in the 1990's. I am not saying that there hasn't been advances, I am just showing you that for someone that is claiming that others are spreading BS, you should start looking at yourself first. I have done nothing more than put my first hand facts on this thread and if you don't like it tough. I am a Racer owner and have been a very large pro Racer jumper for a lot of years but I am not going to lie about the company or my experiences with them.

If you want to comment on anything else I have said, send me a PM and I will gladly discuss it with you.

How many fatalities have you read about that had something go wrong on this "rig of death"?!? You could bring up the Tandem Fatality (human error) but other than that.... Yea nothing....

Another one was when the chest strap tore off during the opening, ejecting the jumper from the harness. So much for the "fail-safe" harness... This happened this decade.

In reply to:

the guys that started freeflying years ago, most did it with a Racer because the rig was already "freefly friendly")

Not true. I saw MANY sit-fly videos from the early 90s, and the main pin cover flap often blew upwards, exposing the main pin... Around year 2000, JumpShack added the tuck tubs to the main pin cover flap, in order to address this problem.

Also, LOTS of velcro had to be replaced every few months (100 - 200 jumps or so).

A better market value doesn´t always means the best product available, specially with containers. Nowadays propaganda is rulling the business and I as a dealer often see great products coming up to the market that faces lots of difficulties to find their way cause the manufacture name is not on top of the list. At the same time I also see great manufactures brand launching new products that sells very well, but without meaning only a new name and no inovations at all. All skydive related materials demands good quality and a lot of testing jumps, none are 100% safe,so saying this is the best or worst product available is risk. safe jumps

Probably is a pain in the ass to replace...fortunate part is you don't have to replace them very often as you don't rip the shit out of them to get the pins in like on a V3 or Javelin with a skyhook, or just about any modern one pin container.

I find that Racer owners are like Mac owners. It's so easy to start a holy war. Like every rig out there they have some unique features that set them aside from the rest, but like everything they have their problems too.

I find that Racer owners are like Mac owners. It's so easy to start a holy war. Like every rig out there they have some unique features that set them aside from the rest, but like everything they have their problems too.

WHAT?!?! Is that a rational opinion of the Racer Harness/Container system? What's going on with that?? You're supposted to be like "OMG they arn't freefly Friendly and your going to kill yourself!" or "Jesus uses a Racer."

1200 jumps with racers containers and don´t recall any issues with main flaps. Once I had a problem with a tuck tab system due to a larger reserve packed in a power racer, so I consider it my mistake. cheers

Here is a pic listed in the article. in a nutshell they theorized the riser tuck tap failed to open causing the scenario shown in the picture, which entrapped the three ring to the point where it could not be cut away. This of course would not have happened with magnetic or velcro riser covers, a point some manufacturers including jumpshack and UPT are trying to make.

Unfortunately the lady tried to cutaway her main from a Wings container after her helmet got snagged in her riser, most likely her one released riser that had the RSL attached pulled her reserve pin, however even with her very fast descent the spring loaded PC did not extract the reserve canopy.

Here is a pic listed in the article. in a nutshell they theorized the riser tuck tap failed to open causing the scenario shown in the picture, which entrapped the three ring to the point where it could not be cut away. This of course would not have happened with magnetic or velcro riser covers, a point some manufacturers including jumpshack and UPT are trying to make.

One really important question pops in my head. Were the risers placed over the flap that has a warning note :" place the main risers on top of this flap".

If "yes"we are talking about a riser cover failure. If "not", we are talking about jumper failure.

And one more thing to think about. Several years ago Bill Booth made a statement that the magnetic riser covers are the only way to go and in the near future , most of the manufacturers will have them. Four years later non ( or maybe one ) of the existing designs were changed to magnets. Not only that, but one manufacturer went back from magnets to stiffeners.

A bad design is a bad design. Period. Doesn't matter if it's magnets, velcro or stiffeners.

And btw, Vector now has third generation magnetic riser covers. Apparently the previous two were not good enough.

One really important question pops in my head. Were the risers placed over the flap that has a warning note :" place the main risers on top of this flap".

If "yes"we are talking about a riser cover failure. If "not", we are talking about jumper failure.

I know of a jumper here who had a mal caused by this. Same symptom, on one side the riser cover failed to open. It was packed by a dz packer who had never seen a Wings rig before and admitted his mistake.

As far as I'm concerned this is a design flaw. It's pretty obvious that people will repeatedly make this error. Tucking the riser under appears naturally to be the thing to do. The warning label helps, but won't eliminate the problem.

I know of a jumper here who had a mal caused by this. Same symptom, on one side the riser cover failed to open. It was packed by a dz packer who had never seen a Wings rig before and admitted his mistake.

As far as I'm concerned this is a design flaw. It's pretty obvious that people will repeatedly make this error. Tucking the riser under appears naturally to be the thing to do. The warning label helps, but won't eliminate the problem.

Ken

I tend to disagree with you. I know four jumpers who have had PC in tow malfunctions because of misrouted bridles. Does that mean that those were gear design faults ?

And the low jump number is not an excuse for not knowing/checking your gear.