renofox wrote:I've watched a lot of games this year and last year, and this is the first time I've seen a QB forced out of the game merely for concussion protocol, including dozens and dozens of harder hits with the QB getting up much slower than RW did. Amazing how so many extremely rare occurrences happen to the Seahawks. Just coincidence, I'm sure.

agreed. RW took a nasty shot to the the chin and looked a little woozey, but I have never seen a NFL ref order a player to the sideline like this before. If the ref thought he was concussed by the play why not throw the flag and boot the offender.?

I have had several concussions while playing HS football and in my later career. If it isnt to bad you snap out of if quickly and are pissed off for being set aside. RW did get his bell wrung, but it wasnt that bad. He knew it thats why he played along then bolted. Why wasn't the guy that put his forehead in to RW chin booted out of the game?

Not sure where you read that. Penalties for ignoring concussion protocol for competitive reasons includes loss of draft picks.

Schefter is also reporting now that the league has confirmed the Seahawks violated protocol so punishment incoming!

Read it twice that “Seahawks could be fined up to 150k”

Also, NFL has not confirmed anything except an investigation. Certainly a punishment is coming. I’ve not read anything about “draft picks”

Quite a few places have reported it.

If the NFL finds that there were “aggravating circumstances” or that the protocol was ignored for the sake of competitive advantage, teams face even stiffer penalties, including the loss of draft picks.

renofox wrote:I've watched a lot of games this year and last year, and this is the first time I've seen a QB forced out of the game merely for concussion protocol, including dozens and dozens of harder hits with the QB getting up much slower than RW did. Amazing how so many extremely rare occurrences happen to the Seahawks. Just coincidence, I'm sure.

agreed. RW took a nasty shot to the the chin and looked a little woozey, but I have never seen a NFL ref order a player to the sideline like this before. If the ref thought he was concussed by the play why not throw the flag and boot the offender.?

I have had several concussions while playing HS football and in my later career. If it isnt to bad you snap out of if quickly and are pissed off for being set aside. RW did get his bell wrung, but it wasnt that bad. He knew it thats why he played along then bolted. Why wasn't the guy that put his forehead in to RW chin booted out of the game?

Exactly, it seems like this type of decision would incentivize targeting. Defender who goes helmet-to-helmet gets a mere penalty, if that, and stays in the game, while the QB, even if he's fine, gets forced out of the game by the refs and the team gets fined if he comes back in. Quite an asymmetric payoff.

Coug_Hawk08 wrote:So, tons of injuries with several players done for the season, NFL focuses on procedure violation of a healthy player. OK.

The NFL should be HEAVILY FINED for subjecting players to unnecessary risks, forcing them to play a game with only 3 days between all out physical exertion.Sherman pointed this out last Year....JJ Watt MIGHT have escaped injury had he been given ENOUGH TIME to recuperate between games.I get the rea$on that the NFL doe$ the Thur$day night Game$, eh?They are PRETENDING that they have the players best interest at heart, but doing RIGHT by them would cost them too much money.Their FAKE CONCERNS piss me off.

In the event... a player sustains a mechanism of injury ("big hit") that is reasonably expected to give rise to a concussion, and/or a concern is raised by another player, coach, game official, ATC spotter, or Unaffiliated Neurotrauma Consultant, the player shall be removed immediately from the field by Club medical personnel.

If a player exhibits or reports signs or symptoms of concussion on the field and does not require emergent transport for more serious brain injury and/or cervical spine injury, he must be removed and evaluated by the Club medical team.

So basically, if there is a "big hit" with a mechanism of injury consistent with potential concussion, anyone on the field can raise the concern, and the player has to be removed from the field and evaluated for concussion prior to returning to the field.

Russ definitely had a mechanism of injury consistent with concussion, and he was raised his hands to his head afterward. He exited the field when told to, but did not undergo an evaluation.

We can complain all we want about inequity in enforcement of the protocol, but it is very clear that protocol was not followed.

Coug_Hawk08 wrote:So, tons of injuries with several players done for the season, NFL focuses on procedure violation of a healthy player. OK.

The NFL should be HEAVILY FINED for subjecting players to unnecessary risks, forcing them to play a game with only 3 days between all out physical exertion.Sherman pointed this out last Year....JJ Watt MIGHT have escaped injury had he been given ENOUGH TIME to recuperate between games.I get the rea$on that the NFL doe$ the Thur$day night Game$, eh?They are PRETENDING that they have the players best interest at heart, but doing RIGHT by them would cost them too much money.Their FAKE CONCERNS piss me off.

On a side note, I always find it interesting that all 32 teams in the league have a fan base that thing the league is out to get them. This one is no different, it use to be the scheduling and 10am games. Although this season has one of the most favorable schedules and times ever.

It's not a conspiracy. Russ isn't the first player to be taken off the field of concussion protocol and testing, although reading this forum you'd think it's never happened. (Happens every week?) it just so happens he was a QB. If they really wanted to screw the hawks why do it on 4th down? Why not on a first down? Why not earlier in the game? Ridiculous to think that was orchestrated.

Here is another possibility, as far fetched as it may seem. The ref, as an individual perceived the hit, and location of contact a certain way, and possibly had a genuine concern about a fellow human being. Just because Russ said he was okay doesn't mean he was, you can have a concussion and not know it. Let's say he did have one (he may have) and the test was done in the manner it was. Then he had a second one later in the same game, what happens to your 100m+ franchise QB? What happens to be quality of life later?

Honestly, this is on Russ and the team docs. Russell should have known better than to try to circumvent the rules, and the docs should never have allowed him on the field without following the concussion protocol. One or two more plays with Russ on the sideline would not have made a difference in the game.

ringless wrote:On a side note, I always find it interesting that all 32 teams in the league have a fan base that thing the league is out to get them. This one is no different, it use to be the scheduling and 10am games. Although this season has one of the most favorable schedules and times ever.

It's not a conspiracy. Russ isn't the first player to be taken off the field of concussion protocol and testing, although reading this forum you'd think it's never happened. (Happens every week?) it just so happens he was a QB. If they really wanted to screw the hawks why do it on 4th down? Why not on a first down? Why not earlier in the game? Ridiculous to think that was orchestrated.

Here is another possibility, as far fetched as it may seem. The ref, as an individual perceived the hit, and location of contact a certain way, and possibly had a genuine concern about a fellow human being. Just because Russ said he was okay doesn't mean he was, you can have a concussion and not know it. Let's say he did have one (he may have) and the test was done in the manner it was. Then he had a second one later in the same game, what happens to your 100m+ franchise QB? What happens to be quality of life later?

ringless wrote:On a side note, I always find it interesting that all 32 teams in the league have a fan base that thing the league is out to get them. This one is no different, it use to be the scheduling and 10am games. Although this season has one of the most favorable schedules and times ever.

It's not a conspiracy. Russ isn't the first player to be taken off the field of concussion protocol and testing, although reading this forum you'd think it's never happened. (Happens every week?) it just so happens he was a QB. If they really wanted to screw the hawks why do it on 4th down? Why not on a first down? Why not earlier in the game? Ridiculous to think that was orchestrated.

Here is another possibility, as far fetched as it may seem. The ref, as an individual perceived the hit, and location of contact a certain way, and possibly had a genuine concern about a fellow human being. Just because Russ said he was okay doesn't mean he was, you can have a concussion and not know it. Let's say he did have one (he may have) and the test was done in the manner it was. Then he had a second one later in the same game, what happens to your 100m+ franchise QB? What happens to be quality of life later?

The problem is two fold: First of all, Russ hardly showed any signs of being woozy.....and if the hit was so vicious as to make Walt think it would cause a concussion, why didnt he throw a flag?

And if anyone was going to be sent out for concussion protocol it should have been your boy Stanton who was taking like 10 seconds to get up by the end of the game.....so why no send off for him?

Secondly, the way Walt was gifting you guys every gift possible to keep you in the game, its hard not to be suspicious that this was one more act of strangeness in a game that was filled with ways to keep you from being blown to the rafters.

And as it turns out, Russ was fine, just like he said. No reason a corrupt official should have the absolute authority to force a player off the field and then consequently punish the team that doesnt perform his dog and pony show. Let an arbitrary doctor upstairs make that call.

Last edited by Hawkpower on Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

NFL is extremely stupid. All they are doing is going through the motions. They are seriously just setting themselves up for more litigation. Not saying I'm an expert or have a solution but they are having some serious inconsistency problems when it comes to their rules and or actions in regards to player safety.

Last edited by seahawkfreak on Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.

The way it happened I blame the officials and the medical staff, Russell if being concussed out smarted the whole staff and the officials, went off the sidelines set in tent got out of tent back into game and nobody stopped him till after he had ran another play.

XxXdragonXxX wrote:To me it seemed like Russ and the team didnt know he was in concussion protocol. I think they thought he was pulled off for a play because he caused an injury timeout, he hurt his jaw and didnt have a concussion.

This incident was most likely caused by poor communication from the referees not being clear as to why he was being pulled off.

Stanton didn't get pulled out because he wasn't getting hit in the head....he was slow to get up because he was getting pummeled in general. He had whole body aches, not a concussion.

Wilson sure didn't look concussed to me when he got up and jogged to the sidelines - he never had that 'go limp' moment that really makes you worry. That being said the ref absolutely did the right thing - if he suspects a concussion he needs yank the player for testing.

From what I could see on TV, Russell evaluated himself and put himself back in the game - absolutely he broke the rules. As far as punishment, the NFL should be taking into account that the team (whether it was the doctors or coaches) realized the error and had him checked out as soon as he came off the field two plays later. That shows there was no intent on the part of the team to ignore the protocols.

Torc wrote:Stanton didn't get pulled out because he wasn't getting hit in the head....he was slow to get up because he was getting pummeled in general. He had whole body aches, not a concussion.

Wilson sure didn't look concussed to me when he got up and jogged to the sidelines - he never had that 'go limp' moment that really makes you worry. That being said the ref absolutely did the right thing - if he suspects a concussion he needs yank the player for testing.

From what I could see on TV, Russell evaluated himself and put himself back in the game - absolutely he broke the rules. As far as punishment, the NFL should be taking into account that the team (whether it was the doctors or coaches) realized the error and had him checked out as soon as he came off the field two plays later. That shows there was no intent on the part of the team to ignore the protocols.

Your middle paragraph is confusing....you state (accurately btw) that Wilson did not look in any way concussed.....and then you say that the ref did the right thing in sending him off the field since he suspected a concussion.

So.....suspected it based on what??

RW didnt show any signs of trouble. And obviously the ref didnt think the hit was to the head because he didnt drop a flag....

So there lies the problem. And the reason why I have no problem with Russ essentially telling them to take a hike. No reason he should have been sent off the field and one more suspicious act by that crew.

The NFL should be investigating why he was sent off the field more than looking into Russ and the staff for circumventing a BS request.

twisted_steel2 wrote:So the same ref that was calling a completely lopsided game, decides to pull RW for one play. Huh.

Interesting.

Now imagine this happening to a QB during a game-winning drive in the playoffs, because the ref thought he saw the QB get hit in the head. By the time he clears protocol, the backup has already come in and lost the game.

The blind idiot didn’t bother throwing his flag, but he’ll send Russell off the field for a headshot anyway.

This is what I am thinking. If it was a shot to the head of the QB, (it was), then why was there no flag?

twisted_steel2 wrote:So the same ref that was calling a completely lopsided game, decides to pull RW for one play. Huh.

Interesting.

Now imagine this happening to a QB during a game-winning drive in the playoffs, because the ref thought he saw the QB get hit in the head. By the time he clears protocol, the backup has already come in and lost the game.

The blind idiot didn’t bother throwing his flag, but he’ll send Russell off the field for a headshot anyway.

This is what I am thinking. If it was a shot to the head of the QB, (it was), then why was there no flag?

XxXdragonXxX wrote:To me it seemed like Russ and the team didnt know he was in concussion protocol. I think they thought he was pulled off for a play because he caused an injury timeout, he hurt his jaw and didnt have a concussion.

This incident was most likely caused by poor communication from the referees not being clear as to why he was being pulled off.

This.....

He went and sat in the tent that is used for checking concussions......... RW knew and ignored it

Torc wrote:Stanton didn't get pulled out because he wasn't getting hit in the head....he was slow to get up because he was getting pummeled in general. He had whole body aches, not a concussion.

Wilson sure didn't look concussed to me when he got up and jogged to the sidelines - he never had that 'go limp' moment that really makes you worry. That being said the ref absolutely did the right thing - if he suspects a concussion he needs yank the player for testing.

From what I could see on TV, Russell evaluated himself and put himself back in the game - absolutely he broke the rules. As far as punishment, the NFL should be taking into account that the team (whether it was the doctors or coaches) realized the error and had him checked out as soon as he came off the field two plays later. That shows there was no intent on the part of the team to ignore the protocols.

I agree with this post. I don't recall Stanton getting knocked in the head, pretty sure he was getting beat up and his entire body was feeling it.

The ref made the right call to have RW looked at and there was a flag for roughing the passer. The jaw is part of the head... it's also one of the worst places to take a blow in regards to concussions, and taking even seemingly light hits to the head can cause one. All concussions are not equal and the symptoms range from just a headache/clouded thinking/wooziness to being knocked out cold.

Concussions are serious injuries and not because the NFL is worried about CTE and related lawsuits. They can have profound short-term and long-term effects. The most serious, that I've learned about and seen the effects of, is Second-Impact Syndrome. This can happen when one gets another concussive blow to the head while the brain is still healing from a previous concussion. From Wiki:

The condition is often fatal, and almost everyone who is not killed is severely disabled.

The disabilities involved are generally mental/physical retardation for the rest of one's life.

I doubt the Seahawks will be losing draft picks, as they did have him properly checked out after he come off the field a couple plays later showing that the team wasn't trying to skirt the protocol. The organization can expect a fine, though.

TBH I think this is all on Russ, and he should be fined. He basically pulled the wool over everyone's eyes by walking to the tent, pretending to go in, then coming back onto the field before an evaluation could be performed. If his head was as clear as he insists it was, then he knew better, and he knew exactly what he was doing.

Most of the coaches, refs, and players saw him go towards the tent, then turned their attention to the game. The concussion evaluators were probably still in the tent waiting for him to join them, and alerted the team when he didn't (after he went back into the game).

About the only thing the coaches could have done to prevent it is assign someone to walk Wilson to the tent and ensure he completed the evaluation before being allowed back on the field.

So, I can see a fine on Russ for purposely avoiding the evaluation, and a monetary fine on the team for not having someone follow Russ to ensure he underwent the evaluation prior to re-entering the game. Draft picks for the action of a player? I don't see it.

SMH at the analysts who out of one side of their mouth say that it is important for QBs and CBs not to have a short-term memory and out of the other side of their mouth say concussions are a bad thing. Which way do you want it??

According to the joint policy developed by the NFL and NFL Players Association, if the concussion protocol is found to not be properly followed, the team is subject to fines and a potential loss of draft picks.

Yeah Russell should have waited for the medical staff to check him out and not do his drive thru self examined concussion test............but there's also some culpability on the league. Their Dr or trainer should have been RIGHT there escorting Russell to the tent to not waste time.

Fine us, that works for me. But loss of pick is too much for something the league has at LEAST a portion of culpability for.

What I find ironic is that it's Wilson and the Seahawks under scrutiny and not that douchenozzle Dansby for his cowardly hit. A deliberate hit that forces a player into the concussion protocol should lead to an ejection imho. Far more dangerous than simple scuffling a la AJ Green.

bigskydoc wrote:TBH I think this is all on Russ, and he should be fined. He basically pulled the wool over everyone's eyes by walking to the tent, pretending to go in, then coming back onto the field before an evaluation could be performed. If his head was as clear as he insists it was, then he knew better, and he knew exactly what he was doing.

Most of the coaches, refs, and players saw him go towards the tent, then turned their attention to the game. The concussion evaluators were probably still in the tent waiting for him to join them, and alerted the team when he didn't (after he went back into the game).

About the only thing the coaches could have done to prevent it is assign someone to walk Wilson to the tent and ensure he completed the evaluation before being allowed back on the field.

So, I can see a fine on Russ for purposely avoiding the evaluation, and a monetary fine on the team for not having someone follow Russ to ensure he underwent the evaluation prior to re-entering the game. Draft picks for the action of a player? I don't see it.

Nah, it's on the doctors and the unaffiliated with the team dude to stop him and check him out.