Yayy, now Ultra-Nerds and NEET's can get out side their house into car when car has cumputer's too... I mean I understand navigators and such. But car computer... What point if it won't make car drive itself?

_________________If seeing is believing, how can blind person believe in anything?Maturity is just not experience in life but also ability to make compromises.

I don't know, how is a Carputer any different from the integrated entertainment systems in most newer cars now? Some are more complicated and do less than a purpose-built carputer. I the US, just about every minivan now comes with a DVD system and the newer luxury cars have joystick and touchscreen controlled systems. You can do the same thing with Windows and be able to customize it further.

Now, I don't nor will I likely ever have a carputer, but I do wish I could get a couple hundred gigs of storage in my car and have it output to my head unit. But I'll have to get a Zune or iPod if I really want to go that route.

I don't know, how is a Carputer any different from the integrated entertainment systems in most newer cars now? Some are more complicated and do less than a purpose-built carputer. I the US, just about every minivan now comes with a DVD system and the newer luxury cars have joystick and touchscreen controlled systems. You can do the same thing with Windows and be able to customize it further.

Maybe you're further down that unfortunate path in the US than here in the UK.

I tend the think anything less tactile than physical knobs/buttons is going to distract your eyes/attention from the road far too much, multi-level touch screen menus being the epitomy of far too much.

It's sad to think such things go completely unchecked by our governing bodies, when they have the ability to cause such mayhem.

Case in point, a while back now a lorry crashed at great speed into the back of a stationary car on the motorway, the guy in the lorry was looking at his laptop and hadn't noticed the queue ahead. Everyone in the car got killed outright, all members of same family.

Now the manufacturers want to build these distractions into your car!. Ludicrous doesn't begin to describe it.

Maybe you're further down that unfortunate path in the US than here in the UK.

I tend the think anything less tactile than physical knobs/buttons is going to distract your eyes/attention from the road far too much, multi-level touch screen menus being the epitomy of far too much.

It's sad to think such things go completely unchecked by our governing bodies, when they have the ability to cause such mayhem.

It's not quite as bad as it sounds (in most cases, anyway, I'd think). The mentioned DVD systems will typically be controlled from the rear passengers (and thankfully they stopped making the screens to where the driver could see -- whether accidentally or otherwise). On at least some cars, some of the controls on the front screen will be disabled while the car is running (which would be helpful for not letting the driver work the menus, though it would preclude the passenger from helping with that duty). Many of the controls that will be used while the car is in motion (such as audio) should still be available in discrete buttons and/or on the steering wheel).

Granted, it's a far cry from the days when you probably only had about 10 buttons/knobs available, but it doesn't seem quite as apocalyptic as it could be, and manufacturers certainly aren't going to be interested in killing off their clientele (at least so you'd hope!). Sometimes there's steps backwards in order to make leaps forward, and other times you unfortunately have the case of a total idiot who shouldn't have been licensed in the first place and would probably have done the same thing regardless of the availability of whatever sort of controls.

That amount of gadgetry for an ordinary non-trade driver would be outlawed here in Australia. Maybe this automotive gadgetry overload is an American thing.

I tend to agree with The Gangrel. A car is for driving and focusing on the road ahead and around you -- not for having a party in.

If a person is an experienced enough driver and has never had a drama on the road before, then they probably feel they can handle distractions without much fuss. But it only takes a second and one stupid mishap to lose concentration, resulting in a dangerous situation, and you may not have time to recover.

If passengers get bored on long trips, maybe they should learn to read and imagine and create (as I did when I was a child, not that long ago) instead of constantly being a sponge for often mindless electronic entertainment. Then again, I am "old fashioned".

On the subject of car safety, I made some comments here on the colours of cars.

Back on the topic of a carputer, I think if it can be used without much user intervention while on the road, it could be serviceable for things like streaming media and for internet communication during long trips away and far from major cities.

How about for police, fire, ambulance, forensics, contractors, repair technicians and anyone else that primarily works out of their vehicle?

Fine, aslong as any screen is not used whilst driving or is used only by a passenger.

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How about for the passenger or the kids in the back seat, on long road trips??

Fine, aslong as they are mounted only where passengers in the back can see them and have headphones for audio.

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If your an easily dis-tractable person, you should not be driving a car in the first place.

Lets be honest, there are plenty of people that shouldn't be driving in the first place, but seeing as very few will admit to their own ineptitude, these items need not be there to further diminish any driver, competent or not.

If your an easily dis-tractable person, you should not be driving a car in the first place.

robbie13 wrote:

I can't believe the stuff im reading

As mentioned, if someone is likely to be distracted, he shouldn't be driving in the first place.

ICE ( in car entertainment ) is a cool hobby for a lot of people.

Fine, then. We who don't believe a car should be an amusement park must be the worst and most easily distracted drivers in the world.

Sarcasm aside, it is quite arrogant to suggest that a person "should not be driving in the first place" because they only want to focus on the road and not on their in car entertainment systems.
Wonder how many distractions a race car/rally/F1 et al driver would want to deal with while they are on the track? I'm guessing not too many.
Everything is within close tactile reach and they communicate with their crew through headset and mic which doesn't require them to (unnecessarily and unsafely) fiddle around.

The sort of people who shouldn't be driving are those who don't indicate, who cut other road users off, who don't stop for pedestrians, who break the speed limits, who don't wear seatbelts, who take too many risks, who drink and drive, who display road rage behaviour, who can't park within the lines, who speed up when other drivers try to overtake them, who think their car is a concert stage, who think they own the road, who drive rusty sardine cans with the safety of a cardboard box, who when at the red traffic lights do their makeup and conduct their social life--even after the lights have turned green, who handle a mobile phone while driving even though it is illegal1, who don't turn off their mobile phone after entering a service station (petrol/gas station in other countries) even though it is illegal1, who think that hoon behaviour is some kind of rites of passage, who drive 4WD trucks in cities to go to the corner store and pick up their kids from school in one, who drive overpriced overhyped Euro/American/Australian cars, who don't know the road rules and who don't keep up to date on them either, etc etc. But I digress. You get the picture.

I will calmy step off the stage now and let you people get on with your automotive "fun". For the privilege of expressing my views and reading yours, I thank you.

The point is that having, hm, more possible distractions, doesn't raise the chance for error.

If a person is a good driver, that's not gonna change because he just installed a DVD player in his car.

Also, a person prone to distraction can be distracted by anything, inside or outside the car, gadget or not...

I am a good driver (judgement by others) and I am not prone to distractions (my personal judgement). But I still worry for those who kit out their cars like an amusement park.
Anyway, enjoy your entertainments and drive safely.

The point is that having, hm, more possible distractions, doesn't raise the chance for error.

If a person is a good driver, that's not gonna change because he just installed a DVD player in his car.

Also, a person prone to distraction can be distracted by anything, inside or outside the car, gadget or not...

Definitely. There's levels of distractability, which could range from ignoring entire panels of flashing lights and noisemakers, to being engrossed in something going on well off the road ("ooh look, that squirrel's running in circles!"). If you're the former, you're fine, if you're the latter, then you're the type who shouldn't really be driving (though that bad and they'd likely get killed anyway). Then there's the rest of us somewhere in the huge range between.

If you feel that it'd be a distraction by having something going on in the car, then by all means make sure that it's not in your car, or not used in the case that it's a standard feature. That of course goes for anything, electronic or otherwise, part of your car or just your drunken friends.

Moderation in all things.

In any case, the typical use of a car PC is either to replicate the sort of functionality you might have with a fancier HU or to have a "normal" PC in your car for when you're not driving (high-tech tailgating, perhaps). If someone builds one and is trying to surf the web while commuting to work, they definitely made the wrong choice and are one of those who shouldn't be driving.

idale: you have summed things up rationally and made some well considered arguments. I especially agree with your second point. Unfortunately, we don't always have the luxury to leave out some of those "standard features" which are often the most distracting things in our cars: our passengers.

This argument is like the one regarding gun control. Is the gun dangerous when used without regard? Absolutely. Is it meant to be used in a reckless manner? Of course, not.

Cell phones are as big of a problem if not more, as people seem to have a harder time not fiddling with them in the vehicle. In Europe, your cell phones often do much more than in the US, but are they a bigger hazard than their US counterparts when used improperly? Unlikely, it's about habits and regard for safety.

idale: you have summed things up rationally and made some well considered arguments. I especially agree with your second point. Unfortunately, we don't always have the luxury to leave out some of those "standard features" which are often the most distracting things in our cars: our passengers.

Tell 'em to walk home! (Obviously that's rarely a possibility, and sometimes your friends are real lunatics and it's hard to concentrate when they're -- hey, what the heck is going on back there?!?!?!.)

Sometimes there's something to be said for rope, duct tape, and a large trunk.

jhhoffma wrote:

Cell phones are as big of a problem if not more, as people seem to have a harder time not fiddling with them in the vehicle. In Europe, your cell phones often do much more than in the US, but are they a bigger hazard than their US counterparts when used improperly? Unlikely, it's about habits and regard for safety.

Definitely. In the case of calls, many people will be just as distracted if they have a passenger they're talking with (or worse, as I've seen people looking at their passenger while driving down the road ).

Though I do wonder if all these people distracted by cell phones wouldn't be just as distracted by something else if they didn't have their cell. Looking for distractions or something like that.

The point is that having, hm, more possible distractions, doesn't raise the chance for error.

No, of course not...

Why not install some strobe lighting on the dashboard, that'll not only root out the distractable but the epileptic too...

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If you feel that it'd be a distraction by having something going on in the car, then by all means make sure that it's not in your car, or not used in the case that it's a standard feature. That of course goes for anything, electronic or otherwise, part of your car or just your drunken friends.

Well, that goes without saying, but then it's not my car I'm worried about. How exactly do you stop someone engrossed in their "ICE" from running you down?.

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Cell phones are as big of a problem if not more, as people seem to have a harder time not fiddling with them in the vehicle. In Europe, your cell phones often do much more than in the US, but are they a bigger hazard than their US counterparts when used improperly? Unlikely, it's about habits and regard for safety.[

You seem to have taken my posts as some kind of anti-American slur, how odd?. Yes, cell phones are bad too, here (UK) you are only allowed to use them with hands free, though the penalties for normal use aren't high enough.

It's about prevention being better than cure, we all know that old adage.

Ultimately, people need to pay more attention to the danger they pose to others by their own liberty.

Putting the emotional arguments aside for a moment...
I am interested to know where exactly in a car would a carputer would be installed. Would it be "hidden away" like the old stacker CD players or somewhere closer to the driver?

Putting the emotional arguments aside for a moment...I am interested to know where exactly in a car would a carputer would be installed. Would it be "hidden away" like the old stacker CD players or somewhere closer to the driver?

Depends on the car. Under a seat is a good option when there is room. In the trunk is probably pretty common. Maybe hidden inside the center armrest could be possible with a small enough 'puter. Same with hidden inside the glove box. Really, the only limits are your imagination, the space required vs. available, and how clean you want the install to look.

I tend the think anything less tactile than physical knobs/buttons is going to distract your eyes/attention from the road far too much, multi-level touch screen menus being the epitomy of far too much.

Arguably thats'a good reason to put more smarts in the car, not less. The complex screen-based interfaces exist because the computers in cars aren't powerful enough to provide a reasonable speech-based interface. Even knobs and buttons have their limits, the iconography that does with them most certainly does.

Sat nav interfaces are a distraction, however I'd argue that apart from that sat nav can make driving safer - safer than people trying to read a map whilst driving, for example, or making last-minute lane changes because they're too busy trying to drive and navigate.

I don't think the situation is as black-and-white as you seem to want to be making it.

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Case in point, a while back now a lorry crashed at great speed into the back of a stationary car on the motorway, the guy in the lorry was looking at his laptop and hadn't noticed the queue ahead. Everyone in the car got killed outright, all members of same family.

If the guy had done the same thing and some kids hadn't been killed, it wouldn't have made the news.

computers like these are used more than just for entertainment. They can and are used to interface with the hydraulics and light shows that some put under their cars. What, we have no low riders here? They also have been used to keep track of the cars many little computers. It is one thing to pull in and hook the car up to a service computer, but another to actually have read out of what the car was doing just before it would crank but not start. The problem there is the software, but I am told it is coming. I have seen these computers used to do things like install after market tire pressure monitoring, alarm systems, interface with radar detectors, backup cameras, etc. etc.
I have no use for any of these things as I have vowed to keep life simple, heck I still read books on paper. But it is someone's hobby or interest. Like stone silent computers.

I read somewhere that most cars have an inbuilt chip that records data like what speed the vehicle was travelling before a crash and lots of other things that would seem of little interest to most people. In the event of a legal proceedings, this data could well be interesting to the parties involved, as the driver's evidence will either concur or conflict with the chip's recorded data.
Maybe computers like what you are mentioning can be used in conjunction with this data? Cars seem to get more and more complicated and gadgetry nowadays; sometimes for good (safety, efficiency benefits, comfort) and others not so good (reliability, danger when safety devices don't work, efficiency losses, maintenance and servicing costs).

I also try to live a simple life in line with my faith, personal beliefs and upbringing. I have an interest in technology and science, but where it conflicts with my beliefs, I steer away from it (pardon the pun). I do try and keep a balance in my life and have several hobbies and creative interests. Quiet/Silent computing is one of them, although I am not as fanatical about it as some others. Unfortunately, computers and technology in general tends to cause me anxiety and ill health, and when it does, I retreat to my world of books, music and quiet prayerful time. I also enjoy kicking a soccerball (or any similar ball of shape and size) for that purpose. There's something special about smashing a ball by foot at into a nylon net. Something that hasn't quite caught on in the US, or Australia for that matter. Though things are on the improve.

But I digress for the sake of not attracting the attention of the on topic authorities. More from me than you needed to know, but 'tis nice to hear from someone who also keeps life "simple".

Last edited by Shamgar on Sun Jul 26, 2009 9:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

As a lifelong pedestrian and occasional motorist, I agree that walking is important and also convenient. Not to mention its health and social benefits. I have seen people who live no more than 50 metres from the grocery store drive their cars down there. What are they scared of? Being

robbie13 wrote:

... distracted by a deer or something, walk on the road, and get run over by a distracted carputerist surfing SPCR.

?

As I get older, I will probably be using my car more often (contrary to what environmentalists and governments want us to do) as our city was designed in such a way that without a car it is difficult to get to where you need to go. Within my own neighbourhood and during leisure time, I see walking as still part of my life. Being always mindful of thugs, crazy people and carputering SPCRians with In Car Entertainment systems blasting away and a deer tied to their roof rack.

There's something special about smashing a ball by foot at into a nylon net. Something that hasn't quite caught on in the US

Soccer is the most played sport in the US. We just don't enjoy watching it (for good reason). Indeed, fun to play is usually inversely proportional to fun to watch. Track car racing is the sport the boggles my mind, as it is neither fun to do nor watch (yes it is fun to go fast in a car, but not for 3 continuous hours with no air-conditioning).

There's something special about smashing a ball by foot at into a nylon net. Something that hasn't quite caught on in the US

Soccer is the most played sport in the US.

In grass roots and junior level, it is the highest participatory sport in US and Australia. Call me cynical or whatever, but there is a deliberate covering up of soccer in these countries to protect the invested commercial and traditional interests of the mainstream established sports. Yet both countries are actually doing very well internationally.The US Mens Soccer team narrowly missed out on winning the 2009 Confederations Cup in South Africa, losing to Brazil who staged a second half comeback. And Australia has already qualified for the World Cup for the second time in a row.

jessekopelman wrote:

We just don't enjoy watching it (for good reason).

It's a different game and mentality involved than what Americans (and Australians for that matter) are used to and expect from their sports -- which is essentially another form of "sit back and enjoy entertainment". For example, a draw (1 point to each side) in soccer is considered a fair and worthy result if boths teams evened each other out during the course of the match, but in Australia, a draw in their game of Australian Rules football is considered the end of the world and something to mourn over. Soccer is a supremely tactical game, sometimes almost cat and mouse like (Western Europeans), other times free flowing and beautiful to watch (South Americans). Perhaps the fact that sports like football (soccer), cricket and tennis originated from England and that America fought a War of Independence to "rid" of that influence explains the lack of enthusiasm in the mainstream for these sports in your country. Just a speculative "theory". Or perhaps because Americans like to see a bit of blood and guts in their sports and entertainment which most of the time these sports don't offer. Pardon another speculative "theory".

jessekopelman wrote:

Indeed, fun to play is usually inversely proportional to fun to watch.

To me, soccer is the most simplest, natural and enjoyable sport there is. It is democratic in that you don't need to be built like a monster or be as tall as Goliath to play it. You hardly need any equipment at all, just a ball. If you don't have a proper one, make it out of anything or use something similar. Pele (Brazilian legend) learnt to play with a grapefruit and Maradona (Argentine legend) practiced with an orange. Well, I was a bit spoilt and used a regular ball. It has the potential to (and often does) bring people of all colours, cultures and backgrounds together in one team; something that few other sports can boast of. There is an ugly side to it however, as there is in all sports, but I try not to focus on that. In international competitions, I like seeing how all the different national mentalities fare against each other.

jessekopelman wrote:

Track car racing is the sport the boggles my mind, as it is neither fun to do nor watch (yes it is fun to go fast in a car, but not for 3 continuous hours with no air-conditioning).

You mean American NASCAR and Aussie V8 "Supercars"? I can't stand that kind of racing. But I don't mind Formula 1 -- at least the beginning and ending -- the other 50 or so laps gets kind of tiresome. It must get boring though when you race the same 19 other drivers week in week out, year in year out...

Maybe all F1 racing cars should have carputers installed in them so their drivers can have something to do other than pour champagne all over themselves and say "That was a tough race... amazing feeling!".
Then again, they would probably use the carputer to watch back their lap times and manouevres and them pouring champagne all over themselves and saying "That was a tough race... amazing feeling!".

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