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the difference is the conservatives are arguing that the referendum means leave till the end of time. I'm suggesting a referendum just invites another referendum, especially in such a close race. Really you can have as many as you want until you get the right result. which is one reason I think referendums are dumb.

Do you insist on rerunning general elections in Canada every time you don't like the result, before a govt. has even been formed by the last winner ?

52-48 with a turnout over 70% is a huge mandate in most western democracies.

Scotland doesn't like being ruled from London and is somewhat blinded by that historical grievance to what being ruled from Brussels actually involves.

Last edited by Cullion; 11th January 19 at 07:24 PM.

ONE SOUL AT A TIME

Originally Posted by Danno

i got nothing, you win again.

Originally Posted by resolve

I trust God more than I trust you. And that will never change. I've always viewed you as kind of a snake. No biblical connotations need apply, just the regular ones. You're wise. You're really intelligent. But you're also conniving and have this way of getting what you want when you want it. The sickness I was talking about was your propensity to kind of reach in and grasp on to something to define someone here. You harangue them about it and manipulate it in to conversations. You do that with every single poster here. You do this until they see things your way. The "correct way". It's vile.

Do you insist on rerunning general elections in Canada every time you don't like the result, before a govt. has even been formed by the last winner ?

I just think direct democracy produces flawed bills, but has a moral clout it dosne't really deserve. a MP is elected to a specific term, to violate that is undermining the very essence of the job. a do over referendum is just replacing one piece of paper with another, I don't see why a 2% is a mandate when every pollster and their grandma knows it could have gone very differently. so why not do over until you get the answer you want? is a second, third, or fourth going to be any less the will of the people?

which is why we do have a 2/3 majority rule, in regards to separation. wouldn't major government changes on a 50% pulse 1 be the definition of tyranny of the majority?

also turns out the bit I read about the British 2/3 majority thing is actually from Roberts rules of order and not the Parliament; although the British parliament has no garentee any ballot measure will be honored. so we're both right, nothing we're discussing has any legal standing.

There's no 2/3rds rule in the UK. You're just completely wrong about that. The referendum result is being honoured because after the result the government passed a law through parliament where the MPs got to vote, in order to implement that result.

And you've ignored the point that if we did apply the 2/3rds rule, we'd never have joined.

ONE SOUL AT A TIME

Originally Posted by Danno

i got nothing, you win again.

Originally Posted by resolve

I trust God more than I trust you. And that will never change. I've always viewed you as kind of a snake. No biblical connotations need apply, just the regular ones. You're wise. You're really intelligent. But you're also conniving and have this way of getting what you want when you want it. The sickness I was talking about was your propensity to kind of reach in and grasp on to something to define someone here. You harangue them about it and manipulate it in to conversations. You do that with every single poster here. You do this until they see things your way. The "correct way". It's vile.

I trust God more than I trust you. And that will never change. I've always viewed you as kind of a snake. No biblical connotations need apply, just the regular ones. You're wise. You're really intelligent. But you're also conniving and have this way of getting what you want when you want it. The sickness I was talking about was your propensity to kind of reach in and grasp on to something to define someone here. You harangue them about it and manipulate it in to conversations. You do that with every single poster here. You do this until they see things your way. The "correct way". It's vile.

Seems unlikely TM will win. I hope we then go back to the Canada-Plus type deal that Tusk mentioned months ago.

ONE SOUL AT A TIME

Originally Posted by Danno

i got nothing, you win again.

Originally Posted by resolve

I trust God more than I trust you. And that will never change. I've always viewed you as kind of a snake. No biblical connotations need apply, just the regular ones. You're wise. You're really intelligent. But you're also conniving and have this way of getting what you want when you want it. The sickness I was talking about was your propensity to kind of reach in and grasp on to something to define someone here. You harangue them about it and manipulate it in to conversations. You do that with every single poster here. You do this until they see things your way. The "correct way". It's vile.

There's no 2/3rds rule in the UK. You're just completely wrong about that. The referendum result is being honoured because after the result the government passed a law through parliament where the MPs got to vote, in order to implement that result.

And you've ignored the point that if we did apply the 2/3rds rule, we'd never have joined.

my central point is that I don't trust referendums. as you describe things the leave supporters put it to a referendum because they knew they would never get it though parliament; and today it turns out they were right. It's a tool to bypass parliament, and the only reason to do that is you fuigure you can gin up the public for a day easier then win MP's over in a several month span.

Originally Posted by Cullion

What they've hidden is the low youth turnout.

that could make the stat more meaningful actually. what needs to be known is if the vote is representative of the the youth population or if they are outliers on two counts.

also like to point out the rejection of Mays brexit plan failed by more then a 2/3 majority.

my central point is that I don't trust referendums. as you describe things the leave supporters put it to a referendum because they knew they would never get it though parliament; and today it turns out they were right. It's a tool to bypass parliament, and the only reason to do that is you fuigure you can gin up the public for a day easier then win MP's over in a several month span.

The reason it was put to a referendum is because the Conservative party had to promise that in their manifesto to stop their vote defecting to a much more extreme anti-EU party called UKIP. After the result, a Remain campaigner called Gina Miller, funded by Soros amongst others, pursued a legal case through every court at huge expense to try and overturn the result. What she achieved was that instead of the executive being able to immediately act on the vote (as publicly funded official mail-shots said they would before the vote), they had to put it to parliament and ask parliament to pass a law saying the UK would act on the referendum result and leave the EU. This law was duly passed because the MPs voting on it knew perfectly well that many of their political careers would be over if they refused.

Leaving the EU has complete constitutional and legal mandate in the UK.

that could make the stat more meaningful actually. what needs to be known is if the vote is representative of the the youth population or if they are outliers on two counts.

It means a smaller percentage of the under-25 population cared one way or the other. The stat that matters is 'remain lost'.

also like to point out the rejection of Mays brexit plan failed by more then a 2/3 majority.

That's because remainers and brexiters were united in believing it was a stupid deal.

ONE SOUL AT A TIME

Originally Posted by Danno

i got nothing, you win again.

Originally Posted by resolve

I trust God more than I trust you. And that will never change. I've always viewed you as kind of a snake. No biblical connotations need apply, just the regular ones. You're wise. You're really intelligent. But you're also conniving and have this way of getting what you want when you want it. The sickness I was talking about was your propensity to kind of reach in and grasp on to something to define someone here. You harangue them about it and manipulate it in to conversations. You do that with every single poster here. You do this until they see things your way. The "correct way". It's vile.