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Re: Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Mark II

I had considered that outcome as well, because:
- Zoro v. Shiliew would fit into the Straw Hat Pirates / Black Beard pirates parallel, both crews being 'perfect' opposites and bound to clash in the very last showdown (if it isn't reserved for the World Government)... which is also convenient since Zoro would become the best swordsman in his final fight.
- Since Mihawk became Zoro's master during the time-skip I started thinking he wouldn't keep his title very long. Although this could also be interpreted as the student defeating the master - at the exception that that student/master relationship hasn't been developed enough for the fight to have that sort of impact.

But while those arguments are valid, I can't help but think about how disappointed I'd be if Zoro didn't get the long-awaited rematch to his most important fight ever.

Originally Posted by Robby

and because there's now zero dramatic weight to Zoro facing Mihawk as his *final opponent* in the series as part of the great final war, and has been since the timeskip. He can't enter his final battle as Strongest Swordsman in the world any more than Luffy can be Pirate King before the final battle. It just doesn't work.

I agree with that. Zoro v. Mihawk wouldn't feel right in the midst of such an intense moment, since they are familiar with one another. But who knows? Mihawk was ready to kill Luffy in Marine Ford. Who's to say he won't oppose the straw hats in this final battle, putting all feelings aside (which isn't that hard to figure considering how cold he is anyway)?
Zoro and Mihawk are on opposite sides. A fight can be epic without the opponents having to hate each other (<=> an decisive fight beyond Zoro's dream yes, but a respectful one nonetheless).

Originally Posted by Robby

Would you prefer Zoro slake off all consequences and the fate of the world to go off and selfishly fight Mihawk during the climax?

No - but it doesn't have to be selfish. Mihawk could be a serious threat, as he was during the summit war.

Originally Posted by Robby

Or to have his final fight of the series with the world on the line to not be against the very best, while the rest of the crew are fighting the best in the world?

I am not sure I get what you mean by that.

Originally Posted by Robby

For Mihawk to randomly turn evil or be a mind controlled zombie?

Imu's eyes look like the symbol of hypnosis, so mind-controlled? Maybe!
Not a zombie though, he'd have to die AND Moria would have to get his body... the odds for that are slim.

Originally Posted by Robby

Or to just hold off the Mihawk fight to an empty epilogue battle with no stakes or weight or emotion to it?

That was an idea, yes; Zoro would fight Mihawk after the crazy, final war (implying this final war plays out the way almost everybody agrees on, which is not a certainty either). I find it ridiculous to think that that fight would be "empty" just because it would happen after the 'climax. Maybe the analogy with Naruto isn't totally appropriate considering how its climax was dealt with, but the final Naruto v. Sasuke fight was packed with emotion. For the same reason as Zoro v. Mihawk would; it's a fight everybody has been waiting for, and it's the ultimate objective of one of the heroes. Also, it's a brutal reminder that the journey has come to an end.

Originally Posted by Robby

Or, do we the readers get invested in this pretender Shiryu stealing the title (maybe with a dirty underhanded method)

Here's a relevant question: why would Shiliew even fight Mihawk? Your theory must be that Black Beard would go at Shanks, and therefore, Mihawk would back him up. First of all, that isn't even given. What if Mihawk is resting on his private island, or chasing pirates in the Blues? For him to intervene, Shanks would have to contact him. I don't see Shanks asking for help, especially from a Shichibukai. And if he doesn't, how would Mihawk know that a war is going on? Long-distance communication in OP either goes through den den mushis or newspapers.

But if that is the case, and Shiliew doesn't have any specific aim of being ''the world's greatest swordsman'' (he probably doesn't), then, based on all of Blackbeard's last fights, chances are he will defeat him unfairly. Now if he does, a serious problem occurs.
> Mihawk is stronger than Shiliew but Shiliew gets the help of somebody else (/or wins thanks to a ''dirty method'' as you call it).
> Shiliew is the strongest swordsman because he defeated Mihawk officially, despite not being an actual better swordsman.
> Zoro defeats Shiliew, wins the title... but still hasn't defeated the best swordsman. He only wins it because the best swordsman lost to a trick.
> Zoro's promise to Kuina isn't held.

Originally Posted by Robby

and robbing us of the fight we've been waiting for thirty years? For us to be dissapointed and pissed right alongside Zoro and want him to take out that guy that beat Mihawk? (Who you know, hangs out with Shanks all the time.)

I could be wrong, but I think that a vast majority of fans would rather see Zoro fight Mihawk a second time than to fight Shiliew, a character that we must have seen a total of four times, that we know nothing about except that he likes killing people, that doesn't even know Zoro and popped out of nowhere. Just because he has a sword and is in Blackbeard's crew.

Originally Posted by Robby

It is ABSOLUTELY certain.

Almost every single time I read stuff like this, it doesn't happen. Didn't Oda himself talk about he hated when people predicted his story? EDIT: I'd have to get a source for that, but I might be confusing with Sam Esmail, so never mind.

Only one thing is absolutely certain in One Piece... nothing is certain.

Re: Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Mark II

Originally Posted by Kaptayn

I could be wrong, but I think that a vast majority of fans would rather see Zoro fight Mihawk a second time than to fight Shiliew, a character that we must have seen a total of four times, that we know nothing about except that he likes killing people, that doesn't even know Zoro and popped out of nowhere. Just because he has a sword and is in Blackbeard's crew.

Of course that's what basically everyone would prefer. That's what I want too. I didn't buy into the Mihawk isn't the final opponent thing at first either because I really wanted that battle too. That's why being robbed of it will resonate with the readers so strongly. Similar stuff with Luffy's promise to return Shank's hat.

I am not sure I get what you mean by that.

The final *serious* fights of the series is going to be the strawhat crew versus the blackbeard crew. (Barring epilogue thing like Luffy vs. Coby or Zoro vs. Tashigi or something.) Everyone is going to get an extended 1 on 1 showing their very best in the most important stakes in the series where they'll surely all be pushed to their limits in SHonen style.... but Zoro just faces off against some number 2 guy who isn't the best opponent he could possibly face for the grand finale of the series? Everyone else gets their ultimate opponent, but Zoro gets table scraps? All the emotion and stakes and weight are just... on some guy. And then after that he'll go off and have a friendly duel with Mihawk with no drama or tension or stakes behind it.

That just doesn't work.

If the BB pirates were still short a member and didn't have an established swordman, there'd maybe be wiggle room for Mihawk still but that's not how it is. And again, post timeskip where he became Zoro's teacher, well.... it really doesn't work. Zoro has probably fought Mihawk hundreds of times now, even if not all out, and knows most of his moves and style.

Here's a relevant question: why would Shiliew even fight Mihawk? Your theory must be that Black Beard would go at Shanks, and therefore, Mihawk would back him up. First of all, that isn't even given. What if Mihawk is resting on his private island, or chasing pirates in the Blues? For him to intervene, Shanks would have to contact him. I don't see Shanks asking for help, especially from a Shichibukai. And if he doesn't, how would Mihawk know that a war is going on? Long-distance communication in OP either goes through den den mushis or newspapers.

Shanks has been going around telling people "hey, look out for Blackbeard" since Ace got in trouble, and presumably is who he just talked to the gorosei about. He's being proactive on this. He's prepping for an encounter. And even if he wasn't, he and Mihawk are friends, Mihawk could be visiting when Blackbeard attacked him.

Mihawk just chasing fodder while Shanks dies is completely not-fullfilling in any way, the same way Zoro's final fight being a number 2 guy doesn't work.

Didn't Oda himself talk about he hated when people predicted his story? EDIT: I'd have to get a source for that, but I might be confusing with Sam Esmail, so never mind.

No author likes the audience getting too far ahead ahead of them. But if the author is playing fair at all with their setup, setting up the pieces right and giving build up and clues, the progression SHOULD be clear and make sense to those that are paying attention. especially in the back end of the story as it ramps up for the finale. Like we've known the crew would be going to Wano and facing Kaidou for like five years now, since Punk Hazard. And we know they're going to visit Elbaf afterward... though we don't know if thats the immediate next stop. Long as its not so obvious that every single casual reader gets every detail in advance its fine.... and for all that we do know, we still don't know what most of the BB's do, who they'll match up with, or even if BB himself is done gathering powers, what his ancient weapon will be, how the three way battle will shake out, etc.

Re: Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Mark II

Originally Posted by Robby

Yes, whatever they learn and do on Raftel is the catalyst. But that title officially makes Luffy the best and the strongest officially before the final battle, with his dream already accomplished and just defending the title at that point, or leads to semantics arguments about why he's got the title of the best while not actually being the best. And that doesn't work dramatically, especially not with Oda who is all about constant escalation. (and the shonen genre in general.)

Having Luffy be the Pirate King before the Final War definitely works. That is because his interpretation of it is freedom. Not being on top of the world/best/strongest. We know that being the Pirate King for Luffy is none of that. So him becoming and fulfilling his dream before the Final War, and becoming a symbol of freedom (The Pirate King of Freedom) against Blackbeard, someone that will probably gain the notoriety of Pirate King through power and conquest. Defeating 1 or 2 emperors, obtaining an Ancient Weapon should, on paper, make him the Pirate King. As he has gotten rid of his opposition and now has power enough to challenge the WG.

It's already weird enough that he's been inflated to an emporer already. Only way he can be king before the end is if Blackbeard appoints himself some other bigger title.

The emperor part is, in my opinion, Morgans over hyping Luffy. I think Blackbeard's statement: that Luffy ain't ready yet, is more indicative of Luffy's actual status.

I mean, during WCI, before Morgans even showed up, the idea of Luffy obtaining a higher bounty was extremely plausible, only in the perspective of invading Big Mom's territory, and escaping. However, his feats with Cracker and Katakuri, not to mention all of them came to light, finally gave Luffy his real bounty.

Back then you were very adamant on saying how it did not work from a narrative perspective.

Luffy's already going to have a huge army of allies for the final war, and will probably be agreed upon as "thats the man that's going to be king!" during the arc, but... not officially at that stage before the ancient weapons and BB and the marine uprising are all done with.

Personally, I find much more exciting to have these concepts of Kingship clash as equals, instead of Luffy being stolen of the title. It could be that Luffy does not consider himself the Pirate King after getting to Raftel, after learning the history, he feels compelled to act before he can calls himself that.

I think that the underdog aspect of the fight will come in a different way, not the title. Blackbeard would have 2-3 fruits and an Ancient Weapon, while Poseidon is most likely helping the revolutionaries against Imu, (which for now I like to believe he is literally a Celestial Dragon (a dragon from space). I hope that Oda has the Sunny go against Pluton.

Hidden:

Originally Posted by Tamiel

Try out my first game! All feedback is welcome, enjoy and thanks. Heroine: Kiku

Re: Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Mark II

Originally Posted by K. Kira XXIII

I mean, during WCI, before Morgans even showed up, the idea of Luffy obtaining a higher bounty was extremely plausible, only in the perspective of invading Big Mom's territory, and escaping. However, his feats with Cracker and Katakuri, not to mention all of them came to light, finally gave Luffy his real bounty.

Back then you were very adamant on saying how it did not work from a narrative perspective.

We didn't know at that point Oda was only going to do half the big mom arc... and he finished by surprising the audience by jumping ahead to that point earlier than expected. It was a genuine surprise because of WHEN he did it, not that he did it. He was breaking pattern , and raising the bounty without half the crew there, and making the big earth shaking status quo change earlier rather than later. Hitting that rank and bounty after Kaidou made perfect sense.

The emperor part is, in my opinion, Morgans over hyping Luffy. I think Blackbeard's statement: that Luffy ain't ready yet, is more indicative of Luffy's actual status.

Exactly. Right now is still inflated and a little bit off, not quite actually earned. Thats why the surprise worked, Luffy ISN'T there yet, it isn't quite right. But post Kaidou where its legit and earned and feels right? I guess it wouldn't be a surprise at that point.

The fact that Big Mom wasn't beaten or made ally and her arc was left half done and the setup going on leads to assumption we're going to have a big emporer clash later on, on Elbaf maybe. And that's something we couldn't really have anticipated a couple months ago, but makes sense now... and we can anticipate it coming in like... five years.

Personally, I find much more exciting to have these concepts of Kingship clash as equals,

If they're both vying for the title, as equals but with different ideas of what the title means, that's fine.... but then it also means Luffy doesn't REALLY have the title yet if there's a legitimate other contender. Even if it means different things to them, even if BB is way stronge, they can't both *actually* have the title of King and have it work... so their bout has to be for the official title and what their difference of wills means.

Its fine if Luffy, and even his allies, (and the audience) thinks he's the rightful king at that point, but there's still dramatics to be pulled from that final push in the final arc. Official king before the final battle weights things weird, and there being two official kings at once is really awkward and full of semantics.

Oda prefers Luffy to be the underdog seemingly, even when he isn't. The baddie has to be bigger and better in somewhere. The strawhats just can't enter the final battle as Pirate King and Strongest Swordsman and greatest Sniper in the world, it sinks the weight of the final confrontations.

(If this wasn't a shonen there'd be room to reach the top and then defend the title, but... it is a shonen.)

Re: Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Mark II

Originally Posted by Robby

Yes, whatever they learn and do on Raftel is the catalyst. But that title officially makes Luffy the best and the strongest officially before the final battle, with his dream already accomplished and just defending the title at that point, or leads to semantics arguments about why he's got the title of the best while not actually being the best. And that doesn't work dramatically, especially not with Oda who is all about constant escalation. (and the shonen genre in general.)

That's the thing though, we've already had other titles introduced that relate to strength alone, rather than a more abstract title like Pirate King

Luffy can be Pirate King without being "The Strongest Man in the world" like Whitebeard was

Also, his dream can be somewhat extended after the revelations that come on Raftel since Luffy doesn't value the title as much as the freedom it stands for

Originally Posted by Robby

It's already weird enough that he's been inflated to an emporer already. Only way he can be king before the end is if Blackbeard appoints himself some other bigger title.

I dunno man, Teach wanting to kill Luffy and take the title of Pirate King for himself seems like enough of a title match up for me

Originally Posted by Robby

Most people didn't think the Gorosei themselves were final villains. The reveal of Imu provides a specific enemy representing the government to be taken out in the war, but it doesn't create a new final villain to replace the one Oda has been building up for 18 years.

I'm just saying that unexpected developments can occur

I'm not making an argument for Blackbeard being supplanted as final villain

Shanks will probably die, but arguing for it as an absolute is a bit much is all

"Now! This is it! Now is the time to choose! Die and be free of pain or live and fight your sorrow! Now is the time to shape your stories! Your fate is in your hands!" - Auron

Re: Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Mark II

Originally Posted by Robby

We didn't know at that point Oda was only going to do half the big mom arc... and he finished by surprising the audience by jumping ahead to that point earlier than expected. It was a genuine surprise because of WHEN he did it, not that he did it. He was breaking pattern , and raising the bounty without half the crew there, and making the big earth shaking status quo change earlier rather than later. Hitting that rank and bounty after Kaidou made perfect sense.

I was pushing for the escape since early on in the arc. I did not know how things were going to end up, in terms of if Big Mom was going to self destruct through her hunger pangs. But at least the escape was a given, so there was a reason for the bounties to increase the only question was: by how much, and how it was going to be disclosed to the world. The latter became obvious with Big News Morgans, while the former was up in the air, as it depended on if everything the Straw Hats did came to light. Which it did.

A 1.5 billion bounty after Kaido's defeat would be too low, considering that Katakuri, a Sweet Commander is already between 1-1.5.

Now that Luffy has been recognized and has his real bounty, I expect that after Kaido he will not get another increase. But that is more because of how I see Wano ending. Which to be honest, it has been shaken a bit with the current developments.

Exactly. Right now is still inflated and a little bit off, not quite actually earned. Thats why the surprise worked, Luffy ISN'T there yet, it isn't quite right. But post Kaidou where its legit and earned and feels right? I guess it wouldn't be a surprise at that point.

As i mentioned, the title of emperor has been exaggerated, but in regards to the bounty, I think it is a perfect fit.

The fact that Big Mom wasn't beaten or made ally and her arc was left half done and the setup going on leads to assumption we're going to have a big emporer clash later on, on Elbaf maybe. And that's something we couldn't really have anticipated a couple months ago, but makes sense now... and we can anticipate it coming in like... five years.

I am not sure if I am onboard with all 5 emperors clashing. That at least signifies that Kaido would not be defeated. Unless it is only counting Big Mom, Blackbeard, Shanks and Luffy. Even then, I do not think that will happen.

If they're both vying for the title, as equals but with different ideas of what the title means, that's fine.... but then it also means Luffy doesn't REALLY have the title yet if there's a legitimate other contender. Even if it means different things to them, even if BB is way stronge, they can't both *actually* have the title of King and have it work... so their bout has to be for the official title and what their difference of wills means.

Yeah, and I would imagine them both saying : "I am the Pirate King". I guess it is semantics, but I would imagine both would be official titles, they are just fighting for whom is left. Like two kingdoms at war, having each their own king, but when the fight is over and one is conquered only one remains.

Its fine if Luffy, and even his allies, (and the audience) thinks he's the rightful king at that point, but there's still dramatics to be pulled from that final push in the final arc. Official king before the final battle weights things weird, and there being two official kings at once is really awkward and full of semantics.

That is the point I am trying to make though. Blackbeard will be the "official" Pirate King to the world, the World Government. As he would have gained that by getting rid of his opposition and now targeting to destroy the balance the WG tries to protect. Everyone, will be in a state of terror, unsure of the future.

That's why I liked the idea of Luffy going back to the islands he had visited through his journey before the final war. To give hope. While everyone most likely think the Straw Hats are dead, they suddenly appear on their island again, the citizens/allies realizing that Luffy has traveled around the world. It was just a thought that came from Luffy saying they would visit them again after they finish their journey.

Oda prefers Luffy to be the underdog seemingly, even when he isn't. The baddie has to be bigger and better in somewhere. The strawhats just can't enter the final battle as Pirate King and Strongest Swordsman and greatest Sniper in the world, it sinks the weight of the final confrontations.

(If this wasn't a shonen there'd be room to reach the top and then defend the title, but... it is a shonen.)

I agree, in the scenario I am thinking only Luffy would have that ~top~ title. I am still unsure how the Zoro part will play out. But I guess we'll find out soon enough as the abolition of the Warlord System is soon to come.

Hidden:

Originally Posted by Tamiel

Try out my first game! All feedback is welcome, enjoy and thanks. Heroine: Kiku

Re: Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Mark II

Originally Posted by K. Kira XXIII

´
I am not sure if I am onboard with all 5 emperors clashing. That at least signifies that Kaido would not be defeated. Unless it is only counting Big Mom, Blackbeard, Shanks and Luffy. Even then, I do not think that will happen.

The idea that Oda would have all four Emperors play a role at Elbaf (after Wano) come up in one of the threads a few weeks ago, if I recall correctly. That would change some aspects of some member's expectations towards Wano. The main thing that bugs me here is that this would mean that Kaido would likely NOT be defeated at Wano, but would "survive" this arc and meet his end at Elbaf.

For me, that just doesn't work. Wano has been argued to turn out to be this really, really big arc for years now and Oda already hinted at an enormous magnitude for this arc with the title of the current chapter: "The Great Adventure...". He has never done this in the "Adventure"-title chapters. We didn't even have a small cooldown arc like Zou before it, the author seemed to be in a hurry to get there. So we have a 100+ chapter arc incoming and judging from previous arcs, Oda really likes to have villains defeated at the same island/arc we meet them. Hell, I even count Rob Lucchi among this: Yeah, we met him at Water 7, but Enies Lobby tied so smoothly into all this with the Sea Train stuff and so on that I had always difficulties counting it as a completely different arc. Defeating Kaido at Wano would be the logical and almost only possible climax if Wano will be extremely long.

Yeah, and I would imagine them both saying : "I am the Pirate King". I guess it is semantics, but I would imagine both would be official titles, they are just fighting for whom is left. Like two kingdoms at war, having each their own king, but when the fight is over and one is conquered only one remains.

That is the point I am trying to make though. Blackbeard will be the "official" Pirate King to the world, the World Government. As he would have gained that by getting rid of his opposition and now targeting to destroy the balance the WG tries to protect. Everyone, will be in a state of terror, unsure of the future.

That comes very close to how I will think this situation will play out. Blackbeard will have the title of "Pirate King" after Wano at first, but the readers will know that for some reason which will be xplained to us, the one who deserves it the most is Luffy. Similiar to Whitebeard's words that Blackbeard#s "not the man Roger is waiting for".

That said, having Blackbeard show up at Raftel and first defeat Luffy to get his title would be one of the very few ways how Oda could subvert this event in a twisty and shocking way. Everyone assumes that Luffy being "crowned" Pirate King at Raftel is a foregone conclusion. The idea that this situation of all the situation could turn out so different than people expect is one of the best discoveries people have made on that board since some time in my opinion.

I agree, in the scenario I am thinking only Luffy would have that ~top~ title. I am still unsure how the Zoro part will play out. But I guess we'll find out soon enough as the abolition of the Warlord System is soon to come.

Abolition of the Shichibukai system is the perfect reason for Mihawk to join Shanks, btw. And so we already have a certain time-table how things could play out:

1. Abolition of Shichibukai
2. Mihawk joins Shanks.
3. Blackbeard vs. Shanks (Mihawk. vs Shiryu included). Shiryu has to have Jozu's Diamond Fruit before that fight.
4. Blackbeard shows up at Raftel. (I strongly doubt, that as long as Shanks is alive, he wouldn't do anything to stop Blackbeard from reaching Raftel).

Re: Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Mark II

Originally Posted by Kaptayn

About this: since it's confirmed reaching Raftel requires detaining all 4 Road Poneglyph, how do you think Blackbeard will get there in the near future?

I think what you're doing here is to approach this with some mindset: "There is a proposed turn in the story. Does this violate any "In-world" roles of One Piece? Is it even possible to achieve this without violating any rules?" (In this case, Raftel can only be reached by having the 4 Road Poneglyphs).

I think more of: "There's this proposed story event that would really fit. That's the main point. Oda will find a way of doing this without violating his rules and if he doesn't, he will stretch them."

Now the rule here is: "There's no reaching Raftel without 4 Road Poneglyphs".
There once also was a rule that said: "No one can have more than one Devil Fruit". Until Oda strecthed this at one time when he needed it, conincidentally with Blackbeard.

If Oda wants to have Blackbeard discover the secrets of Raftel for himself and let himself be crowned Pirate King, possibly surprising the Strawhats at Raftel, so that Luffy has to fight him for something more than "Strongest Yonkou" in the Final war, and thus, Blackbeard will have to be present at Raftel... Oda will do it.

Besides, Blackbeard's hobby is "History Research", so maybe there is another way and he already found it. Or he discovers some other secrets in the possible event that he and his crew will crash Mariejois for Shirahoshi or the Secret treasure. Or he just follows the Strawhats without attracting attention after they discover there way to Raftel.

Re: Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Mark II

Blackbeard was on Whitebeard's crew for 20 years. He could easily already have 3/4 of the map and just need the missing piece. Or any one of the guys he pulled out of Impel Down that we know nothing about, could know a thing. Or he could just follow Luffy.

BB getting to Raftel isn't an issue since he can cheat, and he doesn't actually have to do it first to still get everything he wants.

Re: Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Mark II

(quick follow-up to my post at the top of this page) This interview does mention Oda feeling an urge to change his story when a theory predicts it. I wonder if that has actually happened in One Piece and, if yes, when.

Re: Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Mark II

I have a hard time with ODa going full bitter sweet for the end of his manga when his biggest problem is that he refuses consequences to sully because he loves happy endings.

Luffy loses at Raftel. Shanks die. Zoro doesn't get the fight promise. It's basically a giant : It's not you wanted but that's what the story needs.

Luffy becomes the Pirate King, Zoro becomes the World's Greatest Swordsman. Those two don't change at all.
The reader's are the ones attached to specific ideas of what those are, but Zoro's goal was never to defeat Mihawk for Mihawk, and hell we already know Luffy's idea of Pirate King is nothing like the specific general idea of it.

Re: Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Mark II

I have a hard time with ODa going full bitter sweet for the end of his manga when his biggest problem is that he refuses consequences to sully because he loves happy endings.

Luffy loses at Raftel. Shanks die. Zoro doesn't get the fight promise. It's basically a giant : It's not you wanted but that's what the story needs.

Different implications. Shanks dying is as tragic as Ace dying, but it does not really have something to do with Luffy´s goal and how he achieves it, it´s not his job to look after Shanks and after experiencing the death of Ace, he seems to be more aware of that.

Zoro not getting the fight? Mostly a construct of the fans at this point since iwthin the story itself, a possible fight with Mihawk has been rather played down, especially after the two years and Zoro remembering his master fondly, so that fight is dead.
And promises are meant to be broken, just like Ace´s "i will not die" and "we will meet at the summit" gave his death an even more tragic context.
But Zoro´s goal was never Mihawk in itself, Mihawk was just the current representation of the title he actually wants. Even the stuff with Baratie, while Mihawk genuinely took a liking to Zoro and wanted to see him grow, Zoro´s statements were never really about Mihawk specifically but what he represents as the WSS.

Luffy losing at Raftel? Doubt it´s gonna happen. There are several different scenarios and in none of them it makes much sense considering the context of the story and its values that BB is recognized as official Pirate King at any point.