“If I was a battle rapper, I’d eat onions and garlic right before. Just get that in their face,” Joseph Kahn joked. As the director of the new Eminem-produced rap battle film Bodied, in theaters this weekend and on YouTube Premium on November 28, not to mention the man behind dozens of music videos from artists including Taylor Swift, Lady Gaga, Maroon 5, and yes, Eminem, this guy knows a thing or two about a variety of techniques. As far as his technique for directing this feature film, well that’s put clearly on display in this movie that scared nearly every major film festival, yet has been thrilling audiences for over a year.

Bodied stars Calum Worthy as Adam, a nerdy, white college kid who, when he’s not exploring the use of the N-word in modern rap, is exploring his own involvement in the battle rap scene. Along the way he befriends Behn Grymm (Jackie Long), one of the most intense on-screen friendships you’ll see this year, and as Adam finds himself succeeding within the rap battle world, he starts failing with those closest to him, including his girlfriend, parents, and eventually, his new friends as well.

Worthy, perhaps best known for his role as Dez in Austin & Ally, and as student Alex Trimboli in Season 1 of the excellent Netflix true crime satire series, American Vandal, admitted he “never rapped before doing this project,” and so preparing for the rap battles were “the bits we had to prepare for most. Jackie and I spent two months leading up to filming preparing, and we were coached by some of the greatest battle rappers in the world,” who also make appearances throughout the film. “It’s almost like we’re doing a movie about the NBA and we have Kobe and Dwyane Wade and LeBron acting in scenes with us. They wanted to make it look like we were at their level,” Worthy added. “To have them on set, it gave us that extra pressure. We would know right away if it was working or not because they would be there with us in the scene. It really raised the stakes. It felt like we had to get it right, no other option.”

“This movie stars battle rappers, it’s written by a battle rapper, and it’s produced by arguably the greatest battle rapper of all time,” Worthy said. “So there was not one stage of this movie that wasn’t authentic. And we had people on set everyday making sure that was the case.”

“Our stuff was scripted, we had to say everything that was on the paper,” Long explained of the actors’ scenes and battles which range from solid to silly to just plain brutal. But for the battle rappers in the film, he guessed, “The majority of them probably [said their] own battle raps because they’re professionals.”

“That’s the biggest difference between actually doing a battle and acting in a battle, is when you’re acting in a battle, you’re actually supporting that person,” Worthy said. “You’re wanting them to do well. In a real battle you want to destroy them.”

Another on-set element adding to the authenticity of these battles both in the moment and on screen, was the presence of an audience. “That’s the fun part, where you get to interact with the crowd,” Long recalled. “If it wasn’t for the crowd we probably wouldn’t have been able to do half the stuff we did,” noting how important their reactions and involvement were for the actors to deliver their cutthroat lines. And to really capture their genuine reactions, and ultimately add fuel to the performances, some of the extras weren’t even clued in to what was happening. “Joseph would let us go out there and do our monologue and wouldn’t tell the extras,” Long revealed. “We would get the real reactions so it made us feel even better.”

“As an actor, it felt more like doing a play than a movie,” Worthy said of the experience. He regularly had to be prepared to fly though scenes upwards of 10-12 pages long, as opposed to a typical page or two in other projects. “Actors had to really be method going in to those scenes, because you wouldn’t be able to go with those battle scenes if you weren’t. Before battle scenes, we wouldn’t necessarily talk to each other. We would stay in our own zone because we were around real battlers, treating us as if we were going into a real battle, and that really heightened the whole experience.”

“Every time we went to set, we felt like we were ready,” Long said, citing the hard word and studying he and Worthy put into their prep before filming. “As actors, you don’t go to a set not prepared. We felt and knew we were prepared because working with Joseph Kahn, or with any director really, you don’t want to mess up too much. If you do, you’re gonna miss out on your great shot.”

Suffice to say, Worthy and Long did not miss out on their shot, as their own producer believed what he was seeing on screen. “Eminem thought we were battle rappers. He didn’t know we’re actors!” Long exclaimed. Kahn explained that it’s more of a comment on Eminem than anything as, “All the [battle rap] lines were prewritten, so when Eminem watches the movie, he’s like, ‘Well of course they should be able to do that by themselves. Because that’s what I would do.'”

Kahn also noted Eminem’s involvement with the script, which was written by Alex Larsen, with Worthy adding that rapper’s fingerprints are all over the movie and that he serves as the music supervisor as well. “He was dope. So dope,” Long said admiringly.

Though Eminem himself is known for being much more than just dope. Namely, he’s served as a controversial figure within the hip hop community, but even more so outside of it. The same can be said for Bodied. “Obviously, this film sparks conversation, and that’s what we hope audiences feel,” Worthy said. “That’s what was happening on set as well. There was a lot of conversations about race and cultural appropriation,” the actor remembered, admitting there were a few lines specifically in the battle raps he had explained to him. “I know he probably looked at the script way different than [I did],” Long said of his co-star. “I’m used to all that type of language. Him on the other hand, that was a big step for him,” he said, noting that Worthy was responsible for saying “more offensive words than I had to.”

A post shared by Jackie Long (@jackielong) on Oct 10, 2018 at 12:32pm PDT

Worthy is also quick to explain that he is “not that guy” that he plays on screen, a character that is undeniably polarizing, and sometimes perhaps a bit misleading. Film critic Armond White recently wrote for the National Review that the film was a “Communist Kumbaya,” and Kahn responded politely to his tweet to correct him, but gave even more context to his response. “Let me put it this way, any critic puts perspective on it, it’s art. It’s all valid. Even if it’s not necessarily my intent, the interpretation is valid for them. I’m never a person who would take away from a critic, or their perception. To have a critic even talk about your film is fantastic. I was just trying to correct one particular point. Armond is writing for the National Review and definitely has a sort of conservative bend to everything he’s writing. He made this interpretation that I’m a communist, when I think it’s quite clear that the scene he was talking about is doing what he says that we missed, which is we’re actually critiquing the college fascination with communism. And the fact that Adam corrects a girl for missing the boat on communism doesn’t necessarily mean that he’s a communist. As far as I’m concerned, like all of Adam’s motivations in the movie, he is ambiguous. He seems to be a rebutting machine necessarily than a person who’s actually taking a stand on anything.”

But one other important point Kahn wanted to stress was that “It’s very funny to call a dude that does commercials for Lexus, and McDonald’s, and Burger King, and music videos for Taylor Swift a communist. I am literally the engine of capitalism.”

Kahn also clarified other statements he’s been making around the main theme of the film. “It’s a quick pithy statement that I make because I think it sounds fun: ‘Can a white guy rap?’ versus ‘Should a white guy rap?’ What we’re really saying is, what are the implications of interpreting an art form that is specifically black culture, and exploring, but maybe not quite understanding the meaning of why they’re doing that. Because for Adam’s character, he sees this offense culture of all these minorities being able to say whatever they want, however they want, and it seems to be a culture of this sort of acceptance of offense. When he comes into it, does it mean something different, that he’s not part of that. He’s coming from a very different point of view, he makes the same jokes, does it have the same context?”

It’s those exact jokes that almost kept this film from being seen. Bodied premiered last September at the Toronto International Film Festival, where the screening was met with a standing ovation. The ovation was a wonderful surprise to the cast and crew, but that TIFF even took a chance on screening it was an even bigger miracle. “Before we released it at Toronto, it was turned down by every film festival,” Kahn said. “Every film festival turned it down because every one of them was super scared that this was a movie of race jokes and offensive jokes for two hours, and they thought it was a racist movie. Even Toronto didn’t know if the movie was gonna play as this racist read. We played it, it won the audience award. We played it at AFI, it won the audience award. We played it at Fantastic Fest, it won the audience award.”

Kahn, Worthy, and Long have spent the last two plus weeks traveling the country for screenings and Q&A’s of the film, where they’ve been met with a much more positive response than the festivals were providing early last year. “You go into these movie theaters and people of all races, colors, genders, are all laughing at the movie,” Kahn said. “There’s a universal truth that’s going underneath it. Not every ‘offensive’ joke is truly offensive. There’s context to this stuff and I think it’s a very good thing to remind these people in today’s world. We are so eager to blast each other with the accusations of offense that not everything that you say is offensive from a blanket point of view.”

Bodied captures a lot of context, the kind that lives below the surface and behind the eyes of its characters, which is probably best displayed in Long’s reactions, both humorous and heartfelt, particularly in relation to his friendship with Worthy’s Adam. “One of the things that was an incredible surprise in the editing room was Jackie’s reactions,” Kahn said. “They’re heartbreaking. Calum was obviously doing an amazing job, but the reciprocation that Jackie is giving in those scenes, it’s a master class in acting.”

Long was equally complimentary of his director, saying, “Of course it wasn’t all me, it was Joseph as well, the way he shot it. You see I’m sweating, I’m shivering. There’s a lot that I wanted to do but you have to really listen to what Calum is saying. I can give that reaction without words. The only way I could express it is my facial expression and my eyes.”

Just as Long had to find a physical way to express himself through his character, Worthy had to find a connection to his, a guy that’s not instantly, or even over time, flat-out likable. “I don’t connect to Adam in terms of his perspective on a lot of issues,” Worthy assured me. “I am awkward, nerdy, and very, very white. In all other aspects, I’m not like him. But at the same time you have to replace those emotions with something else that you feel familiar with.” Instead, Worthy connected to the emotion these battle rappers put forth in every competition. “Watching the real battles happen, whether it was actually there or on YouTube leading up to it, you saw how these battlers got so emotional. What really makes battles so special, even more than just the words, is the emotion behind it. You feel like you hear their heart and I think that’s what the best rappers are able to convey to you. That’s what I was trying to tap into. I tried to find that emotional response and take it to a heightened level as possible. Because these battles, it gets pretty nasty. We’ve seen people in battles get divorces afterwards, families are ruined, that really happens.”

“The part of Calum that I saw was an actual actor, a real actor who is hidden underneath Austin & Ally and the persona he created,” Kahn said. “But you could see that he’s skilled. One of the things I think he would connect to with the character is that Adam is being underestimated by everybody and there’s a rage that fills in Adam that he’s a talented person. And I felt that Calum could connect with Adam on that level because Calum truly is a talented actor. To give him an opportunity to actually show that range, the demon actually comes out. You will see that happen.”

A truly flattered Worthy responded by adding, “Adam is kind of putting everything on the line when he’s battling and I felt that coming into this project as well. I came from a Disney Channel show, and I knew there was a risk of alienating part of my audience, or maybe never working for Disney Channel ever again. But I knew it was a project that I wanted to be a part of, so I did relate on that level.”

And with the discussion of battles far behind us in this interview, and the bromance flowing freely, Worthy returned the compliment and said of the director, “Joseph Kahn really is elevating film. If you see this movie, you see camera techniques, editing techniques, cinematic techniques that I haven’t seen in any other movie before. He truly is an inventor and working with him I feel like it’s the same as working with a Steven Spielberg. It’s a visionary. He’s doing things that people haven’t done before. And he’s been doing it for his whole career, he’s been elevating the way music videos are made, the way television shows are made, and movies are made and Bodied is a perfect example of that. Going into this project I knew I was risking a lot, but if I had to risk my career on this one person, it’s Joseph Kahn.”

Long, truly gracious for being a part of the film and gaining two new pals in the process, was still impressed with the fact that Kahn would “put the heavy ass [camera] on his shoulder with a brace and get this shot. I’ve never seen a director in my life do shit like this.”

“He’s equally a technical director and an actor’s director, which is a really rare combination,” Worthy continued. “You feel you’re safe in his hands. It was the first project I’ve ever done where I went to bed every night falling asleep and I wasn’t stressed out for one day because I knew we were getting everything that he wanted.”

“People always say that my films look like music videos but here’s the thing,” Kahn said. “I’ve been doing music videos for over 30 years. At a certain point, a lot of my music videos are copied by other music videos and become the de facto style of music videos. So when they say it looks like a music video, is it really my stuff looks like a music video or does it just look like my style?” Bodied is a film that not only looks like Kahn’s style in that it’s exciting and it’s distinct, but that it’s also sure to be copied for years to come. That’s a promise, and not just fighting words.