Yeah, but I'm talking about a rear naked when it actually is sunk in. Too many people don't realize those other stats are considered "slow chokes". I've always been told that don't pass on facts unless you've experianced them yourself. Until then its complete theory.

I was choked for only 13 seconds and I experienced severe brain damage and then death...so I know!

"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - for ever."

Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the **** I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog

i have read on several occasions cautions concerning chokes. apparently some people react very negatively. personally, i have never seen an adverse reaction to a successful choke in training. conciousness was never lost for more than 2 or 3 seconds. often the contest was stopped as the loser was passing out, so it wasnt a full knockout.

whether or not you were choked for 13 seconds and had no ill effect does not remove the inherent danger in choking each other out. the more athletic someone is the more resistant they generally are to residual damage from techniques.

i'd be careful with choking techniques. especially the front bar.

of true import is the fact that both the 'vee' choke and the bar choke are neck breaking/damaging techniques.

peace.

" a cow doesnt whinny, and a horse has no udder, back is to the sides, and sideways is straight ahead"

Oh jeez man, I'm sorry. I was just kidding. I tap my ass off long before a good one-count!

"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - for ever."

Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the **** I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog

"If you get you head turned in towards the elbow and tuck your chin, it's really hard to get BOTH arteries"

you would be setting yourself further into the lock. as well that position can be used to break the neck. turning to the wrist is much safer imo.

Now wait a sec, the way I'm picturing it your advice leaves you escaping what was actually a strangle and moving into an actual choke with the forearm smashing your windpipe! And where is this potential neck brake? I must not be picturing it clear enough. Would somebody who actually specializes in this stuff come on and tell us what direction it's safer to turn your head? I'd really like to hear the official BJJ advice on this one because that advice seems possible but still doesn'e make sense to me.

I think these 3 second chokes must be magic. How do you time it? Do you first let the guy get his choke all perfectly set in, victims chin up and both sides of the neck nicely prepared and then just let him start chokin with out any resistance? Because I've seen numerous chokes and never seen anyone go out that fast. Studies? What studies? Where? Actual scientific studies on rear naked chokes?

Maybe it's just because I'm one of those wirey squirmy guys who's really hard to lock down, especially when sweaty. No ones ever gotten both arteries clamped shut on me so far. One is enough but your vision fades much slower that way. For me it was more like all my strength was getting sucked out by a vampire. I had plenty of time to think about the hopelessness of my situation before I tapped out.

&amp;gt;An actual study that I was part of showed that
&amp;gt;a person will pass out under 3 seconds.
&amp;gt;According to actual medical research brain
&amp;gt;damage and death can happen if blood stops
&amp;gt;flowing to the brain for more than 8 seconds.

I've argued about this on here before. Last time I just did a simple search on chokes and found these quotes:

It seems Judoinfo.com, Black Belt Magazine and BJJ.org don't agree with the 3 seconds study. They all say it takes from 10-20 seconds to choke a guy out. I am sure if you looked up a dozen more Judo, BJJ and wrestling pages they would tell you the same thing.

Eh, 9chambers, its funny you should bring up those studies. Why do you think we tried it ourselves? Given the particular study group we found that when chokes were applied and resisted upon choking those result came close. The study we put on were with non resisting assailants. I think you guys read too much. If you would simply conduct a test yourself you'll find out its about 5 seconds to complete face down unconsciousness. The three seconds was when a persons body went limp. Those "studies" were probably hyperbole and weren't done scientifically. We did this because of an incident where somebody died from a choke hold. The person was a bouncer and said he only put it on for a few seconds. Everybody came up with those stats too. Just try it yourself I'll send you the conditions by PM if you want or I'll do it at the WCR and let everybody else reply back.