Tuesday, May 26, 2015

Not everyone is a closet pedophile

In the aftermath of the Duggar meltdown, all the good-thinking Christians who have less common sense than even non-believers (or my chickens for that matter) are falling over themselves pointing out, in various ways, that any and all of us are capable of being a pedophile or other sexual deviant.

Speak for yourselves, fools, because that is just not true.

Before I go any further, let me repeat and quote myself here, because I am speaking in general terms relating to hard-and-fast reprobates and deviants, not necessarily Josh Duggar: "[...] I am not convinced beyond any doubt
that Josh Duggar himself had reached that point of being a reprobate
pedophile when he did what he did."

Many times it is simply lack of opportunity or fear of consequences that
keep us from falling into grievous sin even though our fallen hearts
would love to indulge the flesh.

By itself, the statement would ring true for many sins and many people. But we are talking pedophilia, molestation, and incest here. No, that is not a desire that even the flesh of an unsaved person wants to indulge in, or what the Bible calls "natural man" (as opposed to spiritual). These sexual deviancies are, as the Bible says, "against nature".

Let me illustrate: every normal man with a pulse has a natural inclination to get satisfaction from looking at women. Eye candy. A godly man will remind himself that to look on a woman to lust after her, even in his heart, is committing adultery in his heart, and will make a point to avert his eyes.

But not one, none, not a single, not even one man that is not a complete reprobate, dirty, incorrigible beast beyond the point of no return would ever have to put forth any effort not to feel lust when looking at a child, a next-of-kin, an animal, or someone of the same gender. Guys lust after women, not children, not Fido, and not their male buddy. Unless they are a sexual pervert, which is NOT a part of everyone's sin nature. That kind of debauchery is a symptom of someone who hates God, does not want to retain God in his/her knowledge, and has been given over to do these acts that go against nature itself.

Even the world knows this. We don't have co-ed prisons so as to not add that level of desire to fornicate. But we don't just put everyone in solitary. Because only complete perverts are tempted by these things.

For Michael Seewald to publicly declare that we are kept from committing these acts through "lack of opportunity or fear of consequences" is as sickening as it is troublesome. Speak for yourself, Mr. Seewald. Most of us were never tempted by so reprobate a sin.

Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like:

No mention of being a homo or pedophile. All sins are NOT equal, and some sins only appeal to those with seared consciences.

There were other stupid things in the blog post, but it would take too much of my time to go through them one by one. You lost me at admitting to being tempted by these sins yourself.

This document is enough to make any sane reader throw up in his mouth, become enraged, or both. Don't let the fact that the founder and leader of IBLP has been implicated in sex scandals with 34 women barely old enough to consent trouble you. He is ready to bring us gems such as this document, penned by a mother and her (now supposedly penitent) son who molested his younger siblings.

The molester and his mom go on to dispense such wisdom as that modesty within the home, amongst siblings, is paramount so as to avoid lusting after one another. What the heck??? If that is not disgusting, I don't know what is! I grew up with two older brothers. We took baths together when I was old enough to remember, and none of this ever made me want to touch them, or them me. Because children are children. Sexual thoughts do not cross their minds any more than world politics, unless they have first been polluted by a pervert/TV.

The article goes on to give examples of opportunities that might induce lust, such as changing a diaper (so we are talking a baby), helping a younger sibling with their bath, or the typical streaking that all preschoolers are known for as they have no concept of sexuality, and don't need to have one at that age. Hugs, rough-housing, wrestling, babysitting a younger sibling, even sitting on an older sibling's lap for story time are warned against, becuase they can all lead to: whoops - I just molested my baby sister!

That is great advice when you are living with a pedophile under your roof, true. But normal children are not pedophiles, and should not be treated as such. The way to prevent a child from becoming a predator is by protecting him from being molested by outsiders.

All this mother and son know is that whatever they did that led to him molesting his siblings was a failure. There are a million and one ways to fail. Just because they have figured out one of those ways, does not mean that their advice now is sound. It just might be yet another way to fail in a different manner. Why not get advice from someone who DIDN'T raise a pedophile, and an organization NOT spearheaded by a board of sex offenders??

To hear why these ministires are always full of freaks, weirdos, phoneys, and sex predators, please watch this sermon.

Another argument that is being made by Diary of an Autodidact in his post "How Fundamentalism's Teachings on Sexuality Create Predatory Behavior" is that it is the restrictive teachings on sex that make kids act this way, that if they were allowed access to girls outside their family, they would not be doing this. The argument being that they are not violating kids because they are after kids, but that it is just the only thing available to them. Again, there is an implication of "we are all capable of this when that is our only opportunity," and it's just not true.
Anyone knows that feeding into a lust only makes that appetite stronger. Giving in to fornication does not satisfy the desire for more than 5 minutes, at which point it will come roaring back stronger than ever. By the author's logic, kids in school should be instructed to smoke pot, so as to keep them from getting into heroin and cocaine. Lunacy!

All that is not to say that these organizations don't give kids weird and twisted ideas about sex being bad or dirty or shameful, because they do. But setting a Biblical standard cannot be implicated in kids turning out perverts.

Then there is an army of defensive bloggers focusing on how the victims have been victimized again, such as this one or this one, and that for this reason alone, the skeleton (more like a rotting corpse in this case) should have remained in the closet. And to some extent, that is, sadly, very true. It is awful that the Duggar girls had to have their names and faces publicly attached to this.

Except what about the girls that are yet to be victimized, something that may be prevented by exposing the perpetrator? Maybe if we executed rapists and child molesters when it first comes out, we would not have to make victims relive the horrors of their abuse when we have to air it yet again in an attempt to warn others. Maybe if the parents had resisted the temptation, motivated by pride or greed, to become international celebrities, this would have gone away much more quietly? But again, there is this idea that this could befall anyone, and having a child molester for a son is not unusual enough to abstain from playing the part of a moral, upstanding, Christian family on national TV.

Maybe, just maybe, God was right all along. If we would execute these molesters and pedophiles, they would not have infiltrated society. And maybe if Christians read their Bibles and believed it cover to cover, they would not be playing into the agenda of NAMBLA and others by spouting off the same disgusting nonsense that there is a pedophile lurking in all of us.

My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children. - Hosea 4:6

49 comments:

Great write up! I also enjoyed the earlier post you made. I might quietly add that when a family decides to go public on TV with their private lives, then they dont get to say,"Mind your own business" or "This is a private matter and we need to deal with this alone." Its kind of like the pastor. He cannot hide a major sin from his congregation, such as adultery or such, and then expect people to mind their own business when it comes to light. The same for a deacon. When you choose to be a role model, or a leader, then your private life is in the light because your failures can hurt others much more. And this is why I also agree that the Duggars, as much as I have enjoyed the show, should have never rose to stardom with this skeleton in the closet. They shouldnt be surprised they inquiring minds want to know now. I am sick of Christians saying that we should mind our own business on this issue. Its so late for that. And when pastors and deacons fall into big sins they also dont get to use the privacy card. They asked for it.

Actually, this was released illegally because he was a minor. A minor's documents are sealed until age 21, at which time they are destroyed. That is the law. His parents handled it at most would have - by trying to keep the law out.

I can't believe people sit there reading police reports about somebody that they don't even know. And also encouraging others to read them too. You are all contributing to the slander of an entire family. Worry about your own affairs. If something can be imagined, it can be done. There is nothing new under the sun. Mind your own business, manage your own household, look after your own family members, and don't just sit there worrying about people or things that don't pertain to you. Use it as an example to be extra cautious with your children and who they are mixing with. Don't sit there dwelling on it, getting all worked up. Do what the Bible says. 'Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.' Philippians 4:8MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS. Just because a family is on TV, doesn't mean we as Christians have to choose to waste our time watching the workings of another household. They might have chosen the route of being in the public eye, but you can also choose the route of not tuning in. It goes both ways. Justifying busybody behavior with the excuse that someone is in the limelight is a cop out and you all know it. Throw out your TV.

Contemporary Christianity is so apostate that I almost cannot even fathom it. I am surprised, disgusted, and ashamed ..... but at least there are a few people out there with enough sense to make a correct assessmentioned of this situation.

Mike Huckabee, Jim Bob Duggar, Josh Duggar himself and anyone who defends Josh Duggars behavior - all they offer is excuses excuses excuses, but Michael Seewald really takes the cake when he tries to paint us all with the pedophile paintbrush.

Wonder how Jim Bob would have reacted if an 14 year old stranger had sneaked into his daughter's bedroom to fondle them. He would have been all over media screaming that the strange 14 year old be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

Wow, I can't believe it. I just want to stop watching the news altogether now because this is unbelievable - In fact, I can't even believe that people saying "there's a pedophile in all of us" can be something that anyone would honestly think is true. I reckon these people are trolling by saying this stuff. Then again if they aren't, it's only something a reprobate would say.

And people love to say "oh all sins are forgiven, you can't say you are any better than them" - THATS NOT THE POINT! I would agree that anyone who comes to Christ for the free gift of salvation, can and will be saved - BUT the Devil always has you arguing about the wrong thing. Yes all sins are forgiven and anyone who wants to be saved can be, but why would you even have any sick disgusting lusts in the first place? People shouldn't be trying to argue that it's forgivable, because this type of sick sin should be punishable by death the moment it's brought to light and you wouldn't even have this question come up to begin with!

I have no problem with a pedophile being shown the Gospel right before they are executed, and given a chance to believe on Christ to be saved - That's between them and God, and the Bible says pedophiles are reprobates which means they can't even understand the Gospel anyway, so they wouldn't even be able to call on Jesus to save them for being unable to know the truth!

The question should be; can you understand the Gospel, and are you willing to believe on Christ to be saved? If the answer is yes then fine, no matter what they've done they can be SAVED. BUT THEY STILL NEED TO BE PUT TO DEATH regardless of the fact. ZERO tolerance is a must when it comes to death penalty crimes according to what God says must be punishable by death.

I'm so sick of this devilish agenda trying to distract people and get people talking and rambling about things that have ZERO relevance.

Thanks Zsuzsanna, glad you and Steve are really switched on and aware of all this stuff so that your kids will turn out to be normal SANE individuals. I mean, being saved and raising kids with the Gospel is one thing, but preparing people for the sickness and distorted views of our current society is another thing. Good on you guys.

Exactly! I've always thought the same thing. Preach the gospel to them, and if they get saved that's great, but still put them to death for the crime. I think people are really messed up when they think a person should not be held accountable for a crime just because they got saved or they are sorry. King David was sorry too for what he did, but he still suffered the consequences and so did his family. You said it absolutely beautifully!

What's funny is that Jim Bob called for death to those that committ incest, rape, and molestation back when he was campaigning for state senator. At the exact same time theat adolescent perve was touching on his sisters. At the time those little girls were making outcries and no one was listening to them.

Dear Mrs. Anderson:I happened across your blog about 7 months ago and read it regularly. I enjoy it very much as you are very well read and well spoken. I particularly enjoy the little windows into a clearly happy and Christian family. Today, however, you outdid yourself and I felt I must comment. Your above essay on the Duggar fiasco was brilliant! Your thoughts were well-written, well thought out and extremely insightful. In my own humble opinion, no one has gotten it as right as you. Thank you for sharing.

I also have been watching your Q&A's which I find entertaining and informative. You and your husband, Pastor Anderson, should know you touch a great many people with your outreach and I, for one, must say you give me a great deal to consider. Thank you, again.

There are a few Bible verses that look like they support that people with 'unnatural affections' can still change their mind and come to the knowledge of the truth. All taken from the KJV too.

'Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.' Colossians 3:5

Take this into context with 1 Corinthians 6:9-11

'Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And SUCH were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.'

So we can see that some of these saved Corinthians, had 'such' characteristics including having former practiced homosexual and effeminate acts.

And here is another thought. You might all think this is a long shot on my part butMatthew 11:23-24 states this:

'And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.'

Out of Jesus' mouth He is saying that if these works were done in Sodom, they would have repented.And this ties in nicely with:

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.'

Meekness. Moses was the meekest man on earth....but what did he do? A lot that wouldn't be called meek by today's def. How about love? Jesus is God and God is love....have you ever noticed Jesus called Peter, Satan?

Dear Mrs Anderson,Thank you so much for being one of the few fundamental, conservative Christians to call this out for what it is- incest and deep depravity. I have been dismayed to hear so many argue that what has happened is no more than a 'teenage mistake'. It makes me so worried for how many other similar cases have been covered up by families. We must pray that the victims of these attacks find hope, courage, healing and faith.I pray that you and your family will know the Lord's blessing and guidance.Kathi

While I agree somewhat with your sentiments, that there is NO EXCUSE for child molestation, I have a question to ask. I read in an article (your thoughts on the Duggar situation) that you had only given them a 50/50 chance of ever being saved, because of their longtime exposure to false prophets, etc. My question is, why or how would you presume to give them any type of chance, or judge them that way? How can you presume to know what God thinks of them? Isn't it right that only God can judge? That it is His job and His alone? How can you profess to even begin to understand or know if anyone can be saved? I would think that how anyone has lived their life would be between them and God. I'm asking, because perhaps there is some part of the Bible that I've missed? I don't agree with basically anything you preach about, but I can at least look in the Bible and understand where it's coming from. This, I don't understand.

Wow I'm beginning to feel a little weird about my home church. I caught my husband looking at some questionable stuff on the internet. A nudest family. When I confronted my pastor on it, he said men will look at anything to get a look at a women and he might have been using something less obvious to try and sneak....me:???? , when I told him the search engine history itself said "nudest family" I asked him this. You can type in almost anything to get a picture of a nude woman. If he was looking for naked women he could type in undergarments or whatever. Why family? Then he dived into "well thats why you just never trust a man thats just how they are wired" I said "your a man. So you must think that way to." He said "well no" Me:"so which one is it" Him: silent........"you can trust me and the scripture, or yourself I wont waste my time counselling someone who wont take my word for it...........................???? Is this just what pastors think? And am I right to be cautious? Is it true that if Id just give it to my husband more that he wouldn't be tempted? Thats what I was told. Do you think one search engine find is enough to do something?

I would advise that you take this question to Michael and Debbie Pearl of No Greater Joy Ministries. They have given advice to women with problems such as this before, and I know are more than willing to help; but, you need to be willing to take the advice, to really have the desire to win your husband back to yourself and away from what he is currently doing. No, what your husband is doing is not normal, and it is not how men are wired. God did not design man with the desire to look at anything or anyone other than his own wife. If they desire anything beyond their own wife, they are indulging in sinful, lustful perverseness. God commands a man to be satisfied with the wife of his youth. God wouldn't command a man to be satisfied with his wife if he wired him to not be satisfied, that doesn't make any sense at all. It is true that giving your husband more will deter his desire to wander, but that will only be a pain killer, and pain killers only last so long. You need to heal the wound, not just numb it. You're pastor is telling you lies and is probably looking at porn himself. Contact Michael and Debbie Pearl ASAP and I would also suggest obtaining a copy of Debbie Pearl's book "Created to be His Help Meet"; it will be of tremendous help, if you are willing to follow it's instructions.

It wouldn't be all that weird or concerning if it were just naked ladies. That falls into normal sin nature. Men are 'wired' that way and God does command us to fight against that 'pre-wiring' or sin nature. The better question is: if men were automatically completely satisfied with their wives at all times then why would God even have to command husbands to be satisfied with their wives? However, a straight up intentional 'nudist family' google search is extremely concerning. Dont leave him alone with the children.

Sitting and looking at nude bodies for sexual fulfillment isn't NATURAL. Just like sneaking ariund toi look at a picture of chocolate chip cookies.... people would think I to be a lunatic. Same with any man who sneaks around to look at nude bodies.

I am thrilled that you have come out all guns blazing against this! I see so many claim quite the opposite and I am glad there is a voice there in the fundamental Christian community. I may not agree with every post you do, but I really appreciate finally a Christian woman fighting for what they believe is right and being an example in this, thank you for that

This is a deeply upsetting subject for me and I very much appreciate your insight. I have been freaking out since this story came out. My family has a long history of incest and abuse, my mother had to be hospitalized from the trauma when I was 4-5 and I grew up thinking from that time it would only be a matter of time until a man attacked me. I was horrified. Nothing ever happened, so the worse part was the trauma of the fear I got from my mother. I cried about having a baby girl, but I don't want to put that fear into my children. I tell myself that I can keep her safe without scaring her by warning her in detail. I find peace in the idea that unless an outsider abuses one of my children incest can't enter our family.

I think the reason I am so panicked by the news lately is because they are telling me that isn't true. From the liberal side I am being told any child can just be born an evil pedophile and so called "Christians" are saying we are all temped by pedophilia.

It makes me feel A LOT better to hear you calmly point out the stupidity of this, as someone with eight children, none of whom just so happen to be, whoops, evil reprobate predators.

Just to be clear, because I'm prone to over think things, if I have sons, and they want to help with younger sisters diaper and bath, I shouldn't tell them no and make it sexual? I can't imagine having a complete same gender diaper changing rule, my husband would have to stop working so he could change all male babies' diapers! I'm just not really sure what's normal in a large family, because I didn't grow up in one but I hope to have one.

I think I would feel a lot better if an abuser was brought forward who caused Josh Dugger's issues. I want to know this kind of thing doesn't "just happen." But it means a lot to hear that I'm not the only one thinking there must be a deeper explanation for why this tragedy occurred.

I have 9 brother and 6 sisters. None of my brothers have ever had a desire to commit incest with us. In fact all of them would be repulsed by the mere suggestion. I have older brothers who used to change my diapers when I was a baby, it did not instill a desire in them to be a pedophile. I used to change some of my baby brother's diapers, I have never had the desire to be a pedophile. My brothers to this day, if they see one of us girls sitting inappropriately (on accident of course) divert their heads and say out loud "so and so, fix the way your sitting, I don't want to see that!" And we're embarrassed when it happens and are like "Whoa, sorry guys!" So no! It is definitely not something natural that occurs because big brother Jere changed baby Jenny's diaper.

I'm an atheist. I oppose the death penalty. This said, I agree with you that most humans do not have paedophilic inclinations. The fact that some people try to convince us that we would do or have the desire to do the same as that Duggar boy in the 'right' circumstances brings to mind an idiom in my language: a thief believes everyone else steals.

Honestly, I think the problem with a lot of Christians defending the Duggars is pride. They don't want to admit that the family they esteemed so highly made some horrible mistakes.

I admired the Duggars too, and I even own some of their books. But, unfortunately, I now wish they never had a reality show. To me, this shows that God is not lying when He says "Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap." How a family that reads the Bible could think they could get away with such disgusting sin confuses me, but that's between them and the Lord.

I've been praying for this family because they need a lot of prayer. But I can also humble myself and see that I made some wrong assumptions about them.

This post is great. I can't fathom the mindset that says anyone can fall into this kind of sin. Most people are not deviants. I too was bathed with my siblings as a little one and we have never had perverse thoughts or feelings toward each other. When you follow the teachings of a pervert, I guess you take on a perverse way of thinking.

Can I ask, with all sincerity (I am a mom with as many kids as you but all a little older) what you would do if you found out your oldest son did or was doing what josh did? I am not asking as anyone else but a fellow parent who has seen really intentional parents who adore their families and are invested in their children's well being, have teens (young or old teens) make devastatingly bad decisions at some point in their life. The kind that crush a parents heart and would make us ask "Where did I go wrong or what or who led him or her to do this?" Can you imagine grappling with what these parents have had to deal with? Look at your oldest son who you and your husband both adore and don't ever think he won't, couldn't, can't make a mistake that changes his life, hurts others and himself, humiliates himself and your family-maybe not on as public level as the Duggars, and maybe that was their biggest mistake, but as a fellow mother my heart goes out to Michelle who has to feel the pain 100 times more than her children do. Walk in her footsteps, think of yourself and think of your son-she feels the same love-and without the advantage of hindsight, just think of it.

I think you missed the main point, pedophilia is not a simple mistake. Smoking pot, drinking, petty theft or other crimes, or even having a girlfriend at 14 is a mistake. Incest and pedophilia is unforgivable

Every sin is forgiveable. But the reality is no one is going to trust you or should trust you after you hurt another. 1 out of every 20 males molests. 1 out of every five kids has been molested. Forgiveness must be in place, but justice needs to be first served before forgiveness comes in.

Forgive me. I am Hispanic, and although read English very well, do not do it when I write. I have a question: If your older son had the same behavior as Josh, you'd kill him? If not, who would? I appreciate any response.

Dear Anonymous at 10:31, please don't worry yourself sick about this. Normal, typical children and adults DO NOT respond to babies in a sexual light. Humans naturally view babies as innocent and pure. It is perfectly fine to expect older siblings to help with some of the care of the baby. Healthy adults are NOT at risk for child sexual abuse - the one qualifier being if they were sexual abuse victims. Also, not all victims become abusers.

I was shocked at the news, at that doesn't happen often. But thinking through this - with the knowledge I have from working for the state health dept, I wonder the following:

Pedophiles do not molest or rape for sexual gratification. They do it for power - which is why they may molest or rape either sex, not always boys or not always girls. What I think may have happened in this situation (and similar cases as we see at work) is that Josh was a normal, curious 14 year old boy. He probably had no discussion with his parents as to the normal, hormonal feelings boys get at this time. And, he touched one of the girls, inappropriately. That touch created an addiction in him and him kept doing it with other girls - never the boys. To me, an addiction can be broken and he can be reformed, whereas a pedophile can not.

As far as his parents, I like them a whole lot less. Not because of how they handled this - I think they did as most parents would and do do - again, we see it at work and then we have to refer it to DSS and/or the police. (Most parents try to handle it at home, without bring in the law.) I like them a lot less because they are so consumed with not hugging, kissing, etc until marriage that they don't talk about the normal hormonal feelings that teens have, they just sweep it under the rug, so to speak.

Calling yourself a "Christian" certainly doesn't mean you are one. Anyone who has a desire for incest doesn't have the Holy Spirit residing in them which tells me everything I need to know about the Duggars. They who would rather cover up the foul sins of their son than protect the innocence of their daughters - and this in a "Christian" household. I'm worried for his infant children now that he has a family of his own.

The Duggers said their son made "really bad choices". Bad choices? Diddling your sisters goes way beyond bad choices. Getting drunk or high is making a bad choice. Their son was committing heinous acts against his little sisters. He needed real help not going to some camp started by Chester the molester Gothard.

I really appreciate your honesty, and willingness, in addressing this topic. I think, as parents, we need as much wisdom from God as we can get to do our job well! As a single mother with one child (whom I'm raising in the fear of the LORD), it won't ever even be a possibility to be personally confronted with this particular scenario. But wisdom is wisdom, and I'll take what I can so as to help others. I just can't get past an uneasy feeling about how the Duggar family dealt with this problem. I looked up this topic on a site I trust, and found this advice for a situation similar to the Duggars'. Would love to know what you think of what this man has to say.

Just an fyi, the digger girl who named her son Israel, in some of the first hospital pictures of the baby with his parents, the father was wearing a Israel defense force tee shirt. after this summer, how anyone could wear such thing behooves me.

as well, in regards to josh digger - our judicial system coddled pedophiles. why do you think in many places bail for even admitted child rapists are $50g, but bail for people growing marijuana for personal use is $100g!! I call it Talmudic law, what the US justice system adheres to.

great post, and the hubs did a great job with marching to Zion. peace to you.

You are inconsistent and don't know what you are talking about. First you say "I am not convinced beyond any doubt that Josh Duggar himself had reached that point of being a reprobate pedophile when he did what he did." Then you explicitly refered to him as a pedophile: " Why not get advice from someone who DIDN'T raise a pedophile, and an organization NOT spearheaded by a board of sex offenders?" You also called him a child molester: " having a child molester for a son is not unusual enough to abstain from playing the part of a moral, upstanding, Christian family on national TV." So according to you the boy is at once a reprobate and not a reprobate. Maybe you should refrain from giving instructions to others since you contradict yourself and are not even sure what exactly you are talking about. Remember earlier you said that pedophiles cannot be redeemed. Moreover contrary to your doctrine that the incestuous are beyond redeeming: St. Paul teaches that incestuous persons can indeed be saved. In 1 Corinthians 5:1-5 he condemns an incestuous man and tells the Corinthians to let him be delivered to Satan for the destruction of the flesh (i.e. excommunicated) "so that his spirit may be saved." (I.e. when he realizes the seriousness of the effects of excommunication and his crime he may be stirred to repent). Most Protestant commentaries support the exegesis I gave in the brackets.

Just came across your blog and have been thoroughly enjoying it! I really like your differing perspective, both from fundamentalists and anti-(reactionary) fundamentalists.

But the idea of executing all these people--even fourteen-year-olds--seems a bit harsh. I don't think that can be supported from the New Testament (i.e., a culture other than ancient Israel). There are reasons people do what they do (not excuses--it's not the same thing), and I don't think people are inherently created perverts. If they were, I'd be forced to pity them more!!

I understand the un-likelihood of rehabilitiation and so forth. But I think it is a pattern of events and choices (both what they do and what is done TO them) that set people up for, for instance, the homosexual lifestyle. I think we need to speak the truth in love, treating them as people, not calling for execution or labeling them as "complete perverts." And yes, I know Romans 1 and its strong words. But while homosexual behavior is ALWAYS condemned biblically, i am not convinced that EVERY person who's fallen into it consciously hates God. Many have been saved out of that lifestyle.

And, I do believe, child molesters and others who are deviants have been saved...though they should not be allowed to work with/ minister to children ever again.

But Josh? He was only 14. There is no excuse for what he did, NONE. But I can certainly see a parent's heart being torn. There was something that led him to this, and it wasn't just God creating him as a pre-condemned pervert.

What are we teaching our children ? If we taught them what the Bible says, it says not to have sexual relations or look at the nudity of our relatives. These are lessons NOT being taught because its uncomfortable. Let the Law convict and prevent sin.

These Biblical lessons are NOT being brought to our kids. Child molestation isn't isolated to fundamental homeschooled groups. Go to the ghettos and the posh communities. Every family makes a choice on teaching good and evil...or not teaching.

For a start there's not enough focus on personal responsibility. It's all "let's blame the woman".It's unhealthy. Not all women are Jezebel and some men are whoremongers. It breeds a lot of narcissistic jerks like Josh Duggar.

The ATI movement attracts a lot of lost people looking for answers for whatever reason they can't discern for themselves from scripture. Then they fall prey to false prophets.

I agree the sex lives of the Duggar daughters was treated very voyeuristically/perverted. They were paraded all over the media resulting in a virgin fetishism for mainstream consumption.

Which really says a lot about Gothard himself. Sex is not the most important thing. That's what the world wants us to think. It's the tail wagging the dog.

About Me

I am the wife of a hard-working pastor and a stay-at-home Mom to our nine wonderful kids - Solomon (15), Isaac (14), John (12), Miriam (10), Rebecca (8), Anna (6), Stephen (5), Boaz (3), and Chloe (1).
We spend our days learning, working, playing, and putting out all kinds of fires as we serve our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
Read all about the good, the bad, and the ugly days right here on my blog.

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Solomon (15)

Typical firstborn. Very intelligent and logical. Loves to talk. Likes for things to be "right" and organized. Very honest and fair. Exceptional musical talent. Great helper with younger siblings. Very kind and loving.

Isaac (14)

Loves anything to do with being outdoors: riding bikes, hiking, camping, caring for animals, exploring, horseback riding, etc. Very reliable and polite. My "Mr. Fix-It" man. Never ever complains. Tough, but has a very tender heart. Devours books at incredible speed.

John (12)

Our quirky child. Funny and artistic. Precocious and empathetic. Loving older brother to his younger siblings. A bit of daredevil.

Miriam (10)

Beautiful and sweet. Kind and mothering with her younger siblings. Loves being by my side 24/7. My big helper. Has a great sense of style.

Rebecca (8)

Full of energy. Smart and mischievous in a very loveable way. Very tidy. Loves to help with anything she can. Dotes on her younger siblings. Daddy's girl, bookworm.

Anna (6)

Sweet girly girl. Loves pretend playing with her siblings and her dollies. Wants to be a big girl like her sisters. Tenderhearted.

Stephen (5)

Full of energy. Loves to climb onto anything. Wild and rambunctious. All boy, and always happy. A smaller version of his dad, with whom he shares his name and birthday.

Boaz (3)

This little guy is an extra special blessing after a complicated twin pregnancy. Mellow and easy-going. Chatterbox. Smart cookie with a heart of gold.

Chloe (1)

Currently the youngest member of our family. A precious little doll that brightens all of our lives. Smiles, coos, gives kisses, and brings joy every day.