I would never impugn my father's manliness by suggesting that there was something he wanted or needed that wasn't already his through the mixing of his sweat with raw materials, or by implying that it's even possible to own something that you didn't kill or tame or rip out of the ground yourself. Every year I get him the best present of all, the only present that says "I express my love to you though respectful indifference, not that we would ever talk about it": nothing.

Put that on a card, and then burn the card, and then smear the ashes on your face and kill something beautiful.

I'm a vegan because I'm afraid I might accidentally eat dick meat, I hate action movies because there's too much talking, I built my own car out of iron that I smelted myself through trial and error, the only sport I watch is NASCAR because it doesn't involve sweaty men getting grabby with each other, I only read Steve Ditko's manliest comic (Mr. A, Rex Graine, the manliest name ever), and I learned my trade at the school of hard punches (home of the Punchin' Possums) [unaccredited].

All my poppy ever wants as gifts from me is peanuts. He's not a real man, he's an elephant.

_________________"...anarchists only want to burn cars and punch cops."- nickvicious"We'll be eating our own words 30 years from now when we're demanding our legislators outlaw aerosol-based cyber dildo-wielding death holograms."- Brian

Books?! Unless they're about sausage or motorcycles, we're not interested.

What about if they're full of pictures, like Spiderman. That's okay, right?

Also, what the fizzle is up with tie cakes? One of these father's days I'm going to make him a tie cake because he doesn't own a single tie (although I do...what does that make me?) so I figure I may as well make an edible one.

There's a really lovely vegan restaurant in my area that does a special meal for both mother's day and father's day. The mother's day is a brunch, the father's day is "burgers and beer." At mother's day the alcohol was on the side, but on father's day it's half of the menu, because Men Drink Beer.

I would really love to treat my dad to this restaurant like I treated my mom, but he's an alcoholic. Guess he's not a Real Man.

the only sport I watch is NASCAR because it doesn't involve sweaty men getting grabby with each other

My only contributing part in any sports conversation is "I like the bit in rugby where all the men jump on top of each other".

Desdemona wrote:

just mumbles wrote:

Wait, "smear" is not a very manly word. It reminds me too much of lady tests.

Very true. {{SHUDDER}}}

Poppycock. You can smear semen on lots of things. And try doing that without a man's assistance.

But yeah, this is pretty dumb. I think men's issues can get trampled on because men aren't allowed to complain about gender issues without being called sexist by some extremist shouting that women have it worse (and sadly the ones with the loudest voices are the ones people here the most), regardless of the fact that just because women get discriminated against sometimes, it doesn't mean that men don't. If anyone would like to feel good about maleness after this silliness, I urge you to head over to the Good Men Project, which is a blog about men's body issues, gender issues and fatherhood issues and is generally a good read.

_________________Moon - "This is the best recipe in the history of recipes forever."

They did something else that I found problematic, but I'm having trouble remembering what it was.

Also - I don't think most feminists have an issue with acknowledging that patriarchy harms men in various ways. The issue a lot of feminists have (from my perspective) is that some men will try to use these things to derail conversations about women's issues, or they will refuse to see how some of men's issues are a direct result of misogyny. I see what you mean, though, and I would like for feminists to remember to be more inclusive. Supporting men doesn't have to be to the detriment of women.

_________________"One time I meant to send a potential employer a resume, but I accidentally sent them a bucket of puke!

I would never impugn my father's manliness by suggesting that there was something he wanted or needed that wasn't already his through the mixing of his sweat with raw materials, or by implying that it's even possible to own something that you didn't kill or tame or rip out of the ground yourself.

Real men break wild animals, they don't tame them.

_________________Goddamn that Rick Santorum has a pretty mouth. -sameness

But yeah, this is pretty dumb. I think men's issues can get trampled on because men aren't allowed to complain about gender issues without being called sexist by some extremist shouting that women have it worse (and sadly the ones with the loudest voices are the ones people here the most), regardless of the fact that just because women get discriminated against sometimes, it doesn't mean that men don't. If anyone would like to feel good about maleness after this silliness, I urge you to head over to the Good Men Project, which is a blog about men's body issues, gender issues and fatherhood issues and is generally a good read.

In my experience, the people who are having the most conversations about the ways that patriarchy limits men and masculine performance are feminists (of all genders).

And, honestly, I'm going to come right out here and say it. Yes, patriarchal gender shiitake hurts men. It hurts men a lot a lot a lot. However, to say that women "are discriminated against sometimes" or that it's hard to tell who has it worse is, to me, bizarre and downright offensive.

Men are not making 70 cents to the dollar. Men are not making up 80% of the poor. Men are not having their bodily autonomy stripped away from them. Men are not experiencing the vast, vast, vast majority of intimate violence.

That doesn't mean that men in a forked up capitalist patriarchy are rolling in roses (or, uh, meat?), or that binarized gender expectations don't cause immense amounts of pain. But I do think it's disingenuous to pretend that patriarchal forces disadvantage men and women equally. If they did, well, it wouldn't be the patriarchy.

_________________"I'd rather have dried catshit! I'd rather have astroturf! I'd rather have an igloo!"~Isa

"But really, anyone willing to dangle their baby in front of a crocodile is A-OK in my book."~SSD

That doesn't mean that men in a forked up capitalist patriarchy are rolling in roses (or, uh, meat?), or that binarized gender expectations don't cause immense amounts of pain. But I do think it's disingenuous to pretend that patriarchal forces disadvantage men and women equally. If they did, well, it wouldn't be the patriarchy.

Oh, I agree entirely, but that doesn't mean both sides can't work to empower both sides to empower each other.

_________________Moon - "This is the best recipe in the history of recipes forever."