Comments on: Sally Ride’s Legacyhttp://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/07/24/46887
News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoricTue, 03 Mar 2015 20:17:38 +0000hourly1By: Blakehttp://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/07/24/46887/comment-page-1#comment-134017
Fri, 27 Jul 2012 21:04:47 +0000http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=46887#comment-134017I’m not talking to people where coming out will put them in danger of real physical harm: coming out of the closet means living out. If you’re out to your friends and family and not out to “strangers” than you’re not out. Because most of the time those “strangers” aren’t really strangers. They’re coworkers, they’re acquaintances, they’re fellow church-goers, they’re regulars at your favorite bar. If you’re out word gets out before you die (especially if you’re a celebrity). If you’re hiding you’re hiding (especially if you’re a celebrity). If you’re hiding you’re lending credence to the idea that gay is shameful. If you’re supporting the idea that gay is shameful you are not my ally.

Gay IS good. The Closet is bad. I’m not going to out you. I believe it is still everyone’s personal choice & I wouldn’t have wanted someone else to out me when I was in the closet (golden rule & all) But, seriously, y’all need to come out. Get on it or know that we all know that you’re secretly ashamed of being gay and we resent you for being ashamed. Get on it or know that you’re placing the burden of being out on school kids while you live your wealthy complacent lives.

That is what changes the moral paradigm in this situation. This is not a sacrifice in the sense that you will not gain. When you’re in the closet the only benefits derived are for you while simultaneously you are supporting the idea that gay is not good and denying the benefits of your open life to others. When you come out you subject yourself to potential harm while granting benefits to yourself and many others. This moral calculation is clearly related to your influence. The more you posses the more harm you’re causing by agreeing that gay is shameful by staying in the closet.

I think that is the difference between what I’m asking people to do and busybodies who tell others how to live their lives. Your life in the closet has a direct effect on my and future generations lives outside of the closet. You have a moral obligation to be out.

In my own life it has been simple because the people who came before me, though their true sacrifices, have allowed me to live my life more openly than at any time in recorded history. Has being out closed opportunities to me? Sure. But I rest easy at night, despite my lack of wealth, my lack of influence, my marginal existence, because I know I’ve done my part to pave the way for the next generation. And we can progress along like this with a bunch of little insignificant minions doing our part to slowly advance progress. Or we can continue to demand that those who possess influence in our society do their part. Which, if we’re not going to out them, means pointing out posthumously that they were a coward. That they failed, morally. That, if you’re in a similar situation and you don’t want to be remembered thus, you need to change your life.

Sally Ride will become a role model for gay people in the future (in fact her celebrity as the first gay astronaut is a little more impressive than the 3rd woman in space title she holds) because in posterity she’ll never have been in the closet in the first place. It’s just a shame I couldn’t have benefited from her example before her death and that she withheld that benefit from me for my entire life.

]]>By: Désiréehttp://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/07/24/46887/comment-page-1#comment-133919
Fri, 27 Jul 2012 06:27:16 +0000http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=46887#comment-133919except she wasn’t “hiding.” Her family and friends knew. She just never released a press statement announcing she had joined the club. People like Andrew Sullivan become all righteously indignant when some one doesn’t want to announce their membership to total strangers though
]]>By: Neilhttp://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/07/24/46887/comment-page-1#comment-133897
Fri, 27 Jul 2012 01:31:06 +0000http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=46887#comment-133897But isn’t it one of the goals that we are striving to achieve that everyone can live their own lives as publicly — and as privately — as they wish, for whatever reason they may wish it?

I would’ve thought one of our goals is for LGBT people to move beyond feeling the need to adopt an unreasonable degree of privacy. There’s privacy and then there’s hiding.

Isn’t our fight a fight for self-determination and against the interference of busybodies who would presume to tell us how we should live based on what they think we should do?

Which is why posthumously discovering a public figure was LGB or T leads us to express concern that they may have felt undue pressure to appear heterosexual (or cis gender) by default.

]]>By: ZRAinSWVAhttp://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/07/24/46887/comment-page-1#comment-133871
Thu, 26 Jul 2012 21:14:00 +0000http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=46887#comment-133871Ditto what Priya Lynn said. It was just not possible for me to be out during my early career. There is no question that my company would have fired me, and in my state I have no legal protections.
]]>By: Timothy Kincaidhttp://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/07/24/46887/comment-page-1#comment-133865
Thu, 26 Jul 2012 20:29:18 +0000http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=46887#comment-133865Ditto what Priya Lynn said.
]]>By: Priya Lynnhttp://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/07/24/46887/comment-page-1#comment-133860
Thu, 26 Jul 2012 18:47:55 +0000http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=46887#comment-133860F Young, the way I see it if a gay or lesbian feels coming out would “threaten their wealth, comfort, social status and perhaps their sense of security and even joyfulness”, who the hell am I to tell them they should take the risk?

Its admirable when people sacrifice themselves for others and I love it when they do, but I certainly don’t think they have any moral obligation to do so.

]]>By: F Younghttp://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/07/24/46887/comment-page-1#comment-133858
Thu, 26 Jul 2012 18:35:50 +0000http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=46887#comment-133858Okay, I’ll tackle your questions, Jim:
“But isn’t it one of the goals that we are striving to achieve that everyone can live their own lives as publicly — and as privately — as they wish, for whatever reason they may wish it? Isn’t our fight a fight for self-determination and against the interference of busybodies who would presume to tell us how we should live based on what they think we should do?”

Yes, that would be nice in an ideal world in the future, but we are far from that point now. And when we fail to come out, we delay and endanger that ideal future.

The fact is that homophobes are working feverishly to crush and persecute us, and LGBT kids and adults are dying (and getting addicted, depressed, devalued, etc.) as a result.

They desperately need support, connection, validation, hope and role models. Anyone who refuses to be a role model has decided that their own survival and/or happiness trumps everything else.

I am okay with survival as a rationale for the closet when it is actually true, but, for many, coming out would not threaten their survival. It would only threaten their wealth, comfort, social status and perhaps their sense of security and even joyfulness.

For them, not coming out means they fail to return the favor that they have benefited from, i.e the work of all those who came out and fought and enabled us to have the rights we have now. In that sense it is parasitical.

It is also self-defeating, since the homophobes are always ready to move in and strip us of our rights when they see we are weak, invisible and disorganized.

]]>By: Jaimehttp://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/07/24/46887/comment-page-1#comment-133851
Thu, 26 Jul 2012 18:12:21 +0000http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=46887#comment-133851Jim, thank you once again for excellent questions to promote true dialogue and discussion.
]]>By: Jim Burrowayhttp://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/07/24/46887/comment-page-1#comment-133841
Thu, 26 Jul 2012 14:08:15 +0000http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=46887#comment-133841In my post, I asked two questions that every single person who has lined up against Sally Ride has failed to answer. I didn’t write those questions just to fill up space. They were serious questions, intended to spark thought and discussion. But when minds are made up, I guess questions aren’t needed. But anyway, here they are again:

But isn’t it one of the goals that we are striving to achieve that everyone can live their own lives as publicly — and as privately — as they wish, for whatever reason they may wish it? Isn’t our fight a fight for self-determination and against the interference of busybodies who would presume to tell us how we should live based on what they think we should do?l

]]>By: Désiréehttp://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/07/24/46887/comment-page-1#comment-133831
Thu, 26 Jul 2012 13:29:44 +0000http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=46887#comment-133831I have to disagree with Andrew Sullivan and thus F. Young by extension here. Ms. Ride chose to not make public her lesbian relationship. It is almost certain that it would have been used against her and hindered her effort to get young girls involved in science. It would have changed her “science is for everyone, even girls” into “science is for boys and lesbian tomboys” which would have been far more damaging than whatever benefit would have been gained by her being out.

Yes, we as gay people need all the role models we can get but it pisses me off when gay people act as if they have some right other people’s story. Sally Ride chose not to be a gay icon, instead she chose to be a female one. She had no obligation or moral duty to be out for the sake of all those young lesbians. Her life was her own, first and foremost. No one else had any right to claim her as a role model *at her expense* and a libertarian-conservative like Andrew Sullivan should know that.