Gary Numan Digest Thu, 23 Nov 2000 Volume 2 : Issue 93
Today's Topics:
"PURE" Gold
.......and whilst Im on......
...and another thing!
Aaaaaah!
Alec Way and Heavy Metal
An Americans Point Of View
Atleast One
blatant drugs, sex and politics vs "i couldn't give 2 monkeys"
complaints
Emperor's new clothes and Replicas79 and ... KOLN
Feeder / Crime of All Crimes / I, Assassin / Tik N Tok
Gary Numan Digest V2 #92 (4 msgs)
is this the wrong direction?
Most Creative and Innovative Numan Album Poll (Amendment)
Name confusion
NIN & Marrilyn Manson
NIN Metal
Numan in Aus
ponderings
Pure and "Best Album"?
Pure et al
Pure reviews and American Tour
Replica 79 / error earthlink / alan spurr
selling "Pure"
Spitfire!? Are you there??
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 09:21:00 -0800
From: "Rich"
Subject: "PURE" Gold
To: "Gary Numan"
I'm amazed at how negative the feedback has been about this latest CD - I
can't stop listening to it! Yea, I hear NIN, Skinny Puppy, Depeche Mode, &
GARY NUMAN. Is it as good as Telekon, Replicas or Dance - who knows; Numan
created that music 20 years ago anyway. I've been a David Bowie & King
Crimson fan since the early 70s - my expectations of their new albums are
not that they have to be better than Ziggy Stardust or Larks Tongue in
Aspic. Personally, if this is the type of music GN's into making, I'm for
it - I think his last 3 CDs have gotten better with each release. Numan
writes controversial material and I enjoy it for what it is - if it's
offensive to you, sell the CD and move on. Will he achieve stardom - I
really don't want him to as too many bands have shown they lose their
creative talent as they try to write for the masses. I hope Numan tours the
US again next year ~ his last time through was even better than when I saw
him in 1980 (and that was an excellent show as well). Rich
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 14:15:19 -0000
From: "rep79"
Subject: .......and whilst Im on......
To:
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Can I just state that I REP79:
1- Love EXILE
2- Love Numan's continually developing style.
3- Love Pure
4- Love Marilyn Manson
Spooky that !!!
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Can I just state that I =20 REP79:
1- Love EXILE
2- Love Numan's continually developing=20 style.
3- Love Pure
4- Love Marilyn Manson
Spooky that !!!
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 14:17:38 -0000
From: "replicant 79"
Subject: ...and another thing!
To:
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Quite right Numaniac
The winging and whininng that goes on via this digest is a real drag.
What do you really expect to achieve by moaning?
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Quite right Numaniac
The winging and whininng that goes = on via=20 this digest is a real drag.
What do you really expect to achieve by = moaning?
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 14:16:07 +0000
From: vickers@netcomuk.co.uk
Subject: Aaaaaah!
To: Gary Numan
All these people whinging because PURE
does not sound like TELEKON. Artists
do not stand still. I think Telekon is
a brilliant album, but I also think
Pure will be very accessible to a lot
of people who, for reasons I do not
understand, do not like the soaring
synths and heavenly melodies which
characterised Gary's earlier music.
John the Numaniac tells us that he has
managed to convince two other people
to buy the album. This is what I'm
telling likely people, buy it, and if
they don't like it, I will personally
refund their money. This is how this
album will sell, through NON-FANS
buying it!
Paddy Vickers
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 14:20:57 +0000
From: vickers@netcomuk.co.uk
Subject: Alec Way and Heavy Metal
To: Gary Numan
Over the years on this Digest, people have
sometimes said that Alec Way makes a lot
of sense.
In his contribution on derivation, influences,
causes, results, etc., from one musician to
another in the last Digest, I am afraid that
Alec Way makes a lot of sense.
"We all live in the same museum,
We all rearrange the same old songs."
Yours Purely,
Paddy Vickers
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 12:18:36 -0600
From: "John Scott"
Subject: An Americans Point Of View
To:
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Talking About Chart Listings Gary Has Never Been Loved By The All =
Controling
American Music Machine (EX: MTV,VH1 And Radio) So It`s Any Wonder He
Sells As Much As He Does! Now I Don`t Know About Britain But Thats Why
As Alan Spurr Had Said His Fan Base Seems To Be Dominated By The
30`s To 40`s Crowd, It`s Called Audience Dedication.=20
I Think If Gary`s Music Was Played Every 2 Hours Like The "Comercial =
Artist"
Over Here, He Would Sell At Least As Many Albums As...(Insert Any =
Generic Pop
Star Here), But Thats Not Why We Like Numan, Now Is It?
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Talking About Chart Listings Gary Has = Never Been=20 Loved By The All Controling
American Music Machine (EX: MTV,VH1 And = Radio) So=20 It`s Any Wonder He
Sells As Much As He Does! Now I Don`t = Know About=20 Britain But Thats Why
As Alan Spurr Had Said His Fan=20 Base Seems To Be Dominated By The
30`s To 40`s Crowd, It`s Called Audience Dedication.
I Think If Gary`s Music Was Played Every 2 Hours Like The = "Comercial=20 Artist"
Over Here, He Would Sell At Least As Many Albums As...(Insert Any = Generic=20 Pop
Star Here), But Thats Not Why We Like Numan, Now Is It?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 08:36:11 +0000 (GMT)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?NumPet?=
Subject: Atleast One
To: Gary Numan
Hi, all, just wanted to reply to Alec's question:
> my guess is heavy metal, as well as ziggy stardust
> and the rest, always played a role in what got gary
> fired up enough to strap on a guitar in the first
> place.
> i'd be interested to know how many numan fans >have
been turned on to goth, indust rock, NIN, >manson and
that lot because of gary.
I'm not hugely into Manson or Reznor BUT I do *now*
like this form of music simply and solely because of
my Numanoid status - I'm still only in my first year
of fan-dom! So you can count me as (atleast) 1 who has
been swayed musically (in more directions than just
industrial goth/rock) solely due to that I got turned
onto Gary's stuff less than a year ago.
So there you have it - it does happen.
Cheers,
Linda Dowunder
who still hasn't been 'Pure'-ified!
=====
http://www.outland.purvision.com
____________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 08:53:22 -0800
From: alecw
Subject: blatant drugs, sex and politics vs "i couldn't give 2 monkeys"
To: digest@garynumanfan.nu
is that REALLY true that goth is laughable in the uk? i didn't know that. duh. i should have, though, judging by who is and who isn't in the mainstream and the more hipster music mags over there that i check in with from time to time. well, that explains it.
your thing about the over 30 and over 40 ilke turning up at shows and buying the discs can't be helped. gary is not in the "adult contemporary" section but he's not 16 either. i don't think that the under 30 and under 20 sets are going to go to a numan gig or buy the discs in huge numbers because gary is not a new kid on the block.
whether it's the put-together-by-a-committee sound, like (with all due respect) christina, britney, the endless boy bands, ricky, etc. on the one hand or the d.i.y. "good guys" like mogwai, radiohead, beta band, belle and sebastian or whoever else on the other, people support who speak to them in some way, who they deem their peers, their age group and who's been hyped to them with the right techniques by the right marketing structures or the right word of mouth sources. on the last american tour, it seemed to me there was a healthy amount of young whipper snappers but maybe that was largely due to the opening act.
what to do? nothing. i think the lyrics to change your mind apply here, though.
he deosn't smirk his way through the music eras like beck does, so the sarcastic smart guy thing is out.
wait a minute! primal scream is a good example of people over 30 and 40 in a band who strike a cross section of ages. how do they do it? i don't know but i think blatant drugs, sex and politics doesn't hurt. rage against the machine benefits from this. it's a large crowd! i don't know how over 40s like sonic youth do it, either, but they still draw huge crowds. are they just eternally plugged in to what is hip?
what about sex music? madonna, over 40, keeps getting hits because she makes designer sex music, partially constructed by a committee, a well-oiled music manufacturing machine working in concert with a pyramid business structure upon which she believes herself to be the tip of the capstone, the "fairy" at the top of the christmas tree. she's always very obvious and heavy-handed, (teenage?) in her lyrics and external imagery too.
now, gary has a good sense of sexuality in his music. that is always there. if he had just one well-conceived, tight little blatant sex number with the melodic impact of cars, change your mind, or whatever, that might elevate these gloomy so-called goth discs with the disc buying public of all ages. he'll never get anywhere with the drugs and politics herds...i don't THINK. i could be wrong.
did it really sell less than machine and soul? that's sad, considering what gary's going for. i can't figure it out. i've seen a couple of interviews with him not that long ago on american mtv or something, a where-are-they-now? type of show and he looked right into the camera and said stuff like, "i couldn't give 2 monkeys" re:- what the music (by the yard) industry thinks about his lack of hits/sales. he was wearing his airman gear to prove it!!! then, in other music mags, he indicates that he still wants to be #1 again all over the world all over again.
he's conflicted, obviously. he had it--by being himself i might add--and then he lost it and can't figure out how to get it back again. it's a brian wilson situation.
either way, i really like pure. he sounds like he cares about what he's singing, with life experience to back it up and as long as he can do that, be himself and not file for bankruptcy protection, maybe that's enough. if marilyn helped him to realize this then thumbs up to marilyn. while on that subject, he'll never be marilyn manson because he actually sings and isn't working a cartoon character on the wet behind the ears masses. --a
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 13:06:30 GMT
From: "Alan Spurr"
Subject: Emperor's New Clothes
To: digest@GaryNumanFan.NU
i) PURE - sales - the album generated the best reviews of Gary's career, and
yet, despite this and all the other favourable press Gary's received
recently, plus Koochy, Random & other positive things, it only charted for
one week, at no. 58! That's a dire showing in anyone's books, and not even
as good as Machine+Soul, generally regarded as Gary's career low point.
So who bought it? It strikes me it's just the same set of over 30s and over
40s as usual, and evidence of a significance number of new fans buying it is
minimal.
ii) PURE - style - like Replica79 said in the last Digest, Gary's gone all
Marilyn Manson on us, a big retrograde step in my view. 'Goth' is laughable
here in the UK, and Gary will remain a figure of fun for some if he imitates
Manson.
iii) PURE - lyrics - Gary's God obsession has spread over three albums now,
even though he did state that there were only going to be 2 or 3 songs
devoted to it this time. Is anyone else getting bored with this subject or
is it just me?
iv) Brixton - the gig was a long long way from being a sell out, attracted a
large number of the same over 30s and over 40s as usual and didn't get
reviewed at all, anywhere, to my knowledge. To get no reviews at all is a
real disaster for Gary, and a real shame, but it underlines the main point
of this email - that some Numan fans need a reality check here. I'm not sure
Gary's career is going anywhere much at all, despite what some may wish to
believe. It's like the Emperor's new clothes - we just see what we want to
see, whatever the reality.
Alan
_________________________________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 11:11:36 -0800
From: Pythoness
Subject: complaints
To: digest@garynumanfan.nu
>why do people come to the digest to complain?
>I could've swore that this was for numanoids to gather and relate to their
>likings.
But surely fans have the same need and right to complain that they do to
"relate their likings." Most of us have had a lot of frustrations with
Gary (and for me it's part of the fun: he's accessible enough to *be*
frustrated with) at one point or another in his career. I do get tired of
people who really seem to want to shoot him down, but simply airing
dissatisfactions is, IMO, perfectly suited to this forum. I probably would
have stopped buying Numan's stuff years ago, and thus missed out on the
very interesting Sacrifice-Exile-Pure triad if I hadn't had a place to vent
my frustrations with the direction Gary was taking and to hear dissenting
opinions that helped me find the things I do like in the music (actually, I
like Machine + Soul a good bit more than Outland. M+S at least has "Skin
Game" on it.)
Right now he's making me pretty happy. I've been a fan since 1979, and
Replicas literally changed my life. I haven't liked an album so much until
Exile (which did not change my life because I was an old fogey by 1998 and
too jaded for that--though seeing Gary in 1998 was a real peak
experience.), and Pure is growing on me, though it doesn't have the edge
and the complexity of texture that Exile does (IMO).
How long do we expect someone to be a cutting-edge innovator? I think
Gary's doing very well. I also think our ideas of how derivative he's
being have something to do with our own sophistication in a lot of cases.
In 1979 I thought Gary was, musically (if not really) from another planet.
Now I've heard a lot of stuff from the same era that actually *does* sound
similar: he brought his own edge and style to the stuff, but he was, after
all, a product of the time.
I hear a lot of Numan in both Exile and Pure, and, while there are other
influences as well, there always have been. There's a lot of Japan in
Dance and I, Assassin, and (shudder, shudder) there's a lot of Janet
Jackson in Outland. I like Pure a lot--what more do I want?
I also think that a lot of the poor sales of Pure have something to do with
lousy distribution and promotion.
On an entirely different topic, is the John-Foxx-Ultravox material no
longer available on CD? I see that none of the big online stores have any.
zg
Pestmaster (zigi@ravenland.com)
Ziggy's House O' Vermin
http://www.ravenland.com/index.htm/index.htm
-------------------------
"You gotta kinda drift through the albinos like they was bunches of
sunflowers."
--Rather Random Person Overheard at Kiva
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 11:37:15 +0100
From: luc.de_visscher@ch.Novartis.com
Subject: Emperor's new clothes and Replicas79 and ... KOLN
To: digest@garynumanfan.nu (Gary Numan)
Dear all,
Off course, there is a great deal of truth in whatever you are saying.
It is clear that, the only way Numan could really chart again is in a d=
uet
with Britney (God save us from this).
He does have this underground cult status, and i wonder if we all would=
really like Garu to be a top star again. Off course, I'd like him to be=
much more popular than now, but a number 1 star? Wouldn't this just tak=
e
away a bit of the exclusivity of being a Numan fan?
I also admit that Gary is very much influenced by NIN and Marily Manson=
,
and indeed it does take a little bit away of the credit he had by being=
their influence.
But then came the first European concert of the tour in K=F6ln, yesterd=
ay,
20.11.2000.
Little venue, I estimate approx. 300 people.
Surprises? Not really, but Gary has made an adaptation if I compare the=
play list of Brixton to that of the Euro Tour. No obscure tracks like
"Dance" or even "This wreckage". No 'Little inVitro', perhaps to painf=
ul
to sing live.
So what did we get, Well the usual start up with "Pure", then from Pure=
"My
Jesus", "Walk with shadows", "Rip", "A prayer to the unborn" and "I can=
't
breathe". From Exile we did get "The Angel Wars", "Dominion day" and
"Dark",
>From Sacrifice surprisingly "A question of faith"
>From Pleasure Principle "Metal" "Films" & "Cars" (but no Tracks or
Observer)
>From Replicas "Me I disconnect from you", "Down in the park" and "Are
friends electric"
And I'm sure I already forgot some. But hey, I was only back in Brussel=
s at
2am, and up since 6.30....
But what the hell is Gary's problem with the sound balance. Yet AGAIN, =
the
sound was awful, overamplified and balanced wrongly. This is a clear wa=
y to
mess up a concert, or have people not coming back for another one...
So conclusive:
Atmosphere: 9/10
Playlist (for Europe!): 9/10
Fun: 8/10
Sound: 3/10
News from Brussels after the 29th.
Luc DE VISSCHER
THE NUMAN FACTOR - Belgium
=
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 17:39:37 -0500
From: Matthew Roberts
Subject: Feeder / Crime of All Crimes / I, Assassin / Tik N Tok
To: Gary Numan
Did I hear that Feeder's new album is going to be called "Echo Park"?
Now, using Bayes's Theorem, I reckon the chances that this is down to I
Die:You Die is:
(0.01'ish x 1) / 0.05'ish =3D 0.2'ish
So there you have it. A 20% (ish) probability that Feeder have named thei=
r
new album after a Gary Numan lyric, assuming my maths (and my assumptions=
)
are accurate.
Wow, what have I been missing on the Digest?
Of course, there is no universal "Crime of All Crimes". Certain societies=
think forced female circumcision is absolutely the done thing. Most
societies still class assisted euthanasia as murder.
Unless you are of a religious bent, a little philosophy may suggest to yo=
u
that every individual has their own personal "crime of all crimes". In fa=
ct
possibly two "crimes of all crimes" - what they perceive as being the wor=
st
crime to suffer, and the worst crime to commit (I imagine they will often=
be the same thing).
I certainly have no doubt that a lot of people will view rape as more
serious than murder. Ask most men if they would rather be raped than
murdered. I suspect a great many would have trouble answering.
Beware the moral guardians (I don't mean Andy - I imagine his remark was
pretty flippant, perhaps a dig at PC?).
Umm? so the I, Assassin re-issue appears to have no "new" stuff. Not even=
the 12" of Music For Chameleons? Boo!
There was a mention a couple' weeks ago that christians might find it har=
d
to listen to Pure/Exile. If it is any consolation, I am massively
anti-belief in God (anti-christian too, but that is a minor distraction).=
Yes, I know that will surprise some people!
Despite my beliefs, I have only a very slight difficulty listening to
Prince songs such as The Cross. I actually manage to enjoy the emotion he=
puts into those "praise the Lord" type lyrics, without actually agreeing
with a word of it.
I think I am saying that art should be judged on its own merits, and fuck=
the context. Yes, that is what I am saying, otherwise how could I like
Wagner?
Having said that, you have to have the intellectual integrity to avoid
being seduced by the message. Oh shit, this is difficult isn't it? Nothin=
g
is ever black and white.
Matthew Roberts
P.S. Did anyone get the Tik N Tok CD? There appears to be a 50% (ish)
chance that I have been ripped off.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 13:20:24 EST
From: Replica79@aol.com
Subject: Gary Numan Digest V2 #92
To: digest@garynumanfan.nu
Hello All...
After posting my comments on Gary's latest (PURE- the album digest #91) I did
get my share of comments in the following edition. Surprisingly the majority
seemed to share my point of view which I did not expect. I must again say
that whatever direction Gary decides to go into I will support, if not in
heart at least in loyalty. The one comment that actually made me want to
comment was one from Tim Houtby in which he stated that I was sure to get my
share of responses from my review of the record. And I hate to disappoint you
Tim but from the several emails I received all pretty much agreed that Gary's
"new" sound is really nothing very new at all, and is really quite stale. And
by the way Tim I'm very well aware that "Pure" is Numan's only release since
"Exile" my comment on his latest being his most uninteresting since Exile was
to point out that the two records are pretty much the same in content (so far
as style is concerned).
Anyway I'm sorry if my comments we're offensive to anyone and if they were
get over it, they're just opinions...
" I should grow wings and just forget the club...you know the legends never
wanted to be me."
Replica79
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 15:26:09 EST
From: Numaniac@aol.com
Subject: Gary Numan Digest V2 #92
To: digest@garynumanfan.nu
In a message dated 11/19/00 3:42:46 AM Pacific Standard Time,
digest@garynumanfan.nu writes:
<< Emperor's New Clothes >>
Alan,
Times have changed and so has music. people are leaning more towards
'happy' pop and less towards what gary is doing. there are more and more
artists coming out of the woodwork everyday in this world. that's a lot of
competition. the new album is doing considerably well. chart positions don't
mean a thing to me. plus every numan fan i know has bought ATLEAST one copy.
and let's not go into that god thing anymore...it's gettin' old. Gary's
making the best music he's made in a long time. I'm satisfied...
John
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 15:33:33 EST
From: Numaniac@aol.com
Subject: Gary Numan Digest V2 #92
To: digest@garynumanfan.nu
In a message dated 11/19/00 3:42:46 AM Pacific Standard Time,
digest@garynumanfan.nu writes:
<< Hmmm..... >>
Tim Houtby said it best. he draws very good points and i'd be interested to
see the outcome if we did happen to take a poll.
John....AGAIN
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 15:30:08 EST
From: Numaniac@aol.com
Subject: Gary Numan Digest V2 #92
To: digest@garynumanfan.nu
In a message dated 11/19/00 3:42:46 AM Pacific Standard Time,
digest@garynumanfan.nu writes:
<< Emperor's New Clothes >>
Alan again,
As far as attracting 30's and 40's folk goes, i'm in my teens and my
friends and i can't wait to go see Gary when he tours over here. i believe he
has a lot of young fans that we aren't aware of. i've talked to roughly 10
people around my age that love numan (A+ for parents). when it comes down to
it, age doesn't really mean anything, atleast in my opinion.
John
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 18:00:58 CST
From: "Jerry V. Howard"
Subject: is this the wrong direction?
To: digest@GaryNumanFan.NU
some cry and pine for the days of Telekon & Replicas. some see Pure as
derivative posing. it's been suggested that Gary is now imitating, not
innovating "like he used to do." well, first, a wake up call: Gary wasn't
the first to deal with alien themes. who was Ziggy Stardust? Gary wasn't
the first make pop music with synthesizers. What about the Beach Boys'
"Good Vibrations," or the 1978 Donna Summer hit "I Feel Love"? Gary wasn't
the first to use a pop format to make dark social commentary. Oh, there
were many before, but Lou Reed particularly stands out in my mind. What
Gary Numan did is take all those elements that were already done before and
put them together in his own unique way. I'm a fan of his because I love
how he draws those elements together. Now he's picking up from the Gothic
and Industrial areas. Again, he's not the first to do it. It's about the
way he pulls the elements together. I love the new stuff! I think PURE may
be my favorite of everything he's done! I like Gothic. I like Industrial.
I have no problem with Gary moving in that direction. And with PURE, I
think he does it better than anyone else. He's borrowing from NIN and MM,
but I think he's taking them back to school with the new album. C'mon
people, an artist evolves or dies. How boring would it be if Gary was still
doing minimalist synth driven android rock. As an artist he's moved on.
Sure I still love to listen to TELEKON, REPLICAS and a lot of the older
stuff, but the new stuff is no less "Numan." The new album is Numan through
and through. No one does it quite like he does. I call for other fans to
try to evolve with him.
-jerry v
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 19:27:14 -0000
From: "Ken Bryant"
Subject: Most Creative and Innovative Numan Album Poll (Amendment)
To: "Numan Digest"
Hello!
As you know, we're asking for your top two creative and innovative Numan
albums, ever. Please post your votes right here on the digest!
Let's add a second part to the poll...
Do you enjoy the 'Goth/Industrial...' Numan sound (whether or not you think
it's the best), and have you been turned on to other bands in this style
because of Numan?
Sample ballot: (My Vote)
Most creative and innovative Numan albums:
#2) Replicas
#1) Telekon
Numan's current sound: I like it very much. It's still got that Numan sound
in there!
Have I been turned on to other bands of this style because of Numan?:
Not to any great degree. It has sparked an interest in NIN, but I still
can't stand Marilyn Manson. I may buy some NIN down the road, but I doubt
it. So, my vote is NO.
I hope this ballot is not too confusing for the Democrats in Florida.
Remember, you're top two choices for most creative and innovative Numan
albums.
Do you like the current Numan sound? No need to compare it to you're
favorites. We'll know those.
Have you been turned on to other Goth/ Industrial... bands because of
Numan's recent sound?
Vote!
Ken "The Numaniac" Bryant
NumaNet: http://members.nbci.com/numaniac/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 14:11:49 -0000
From: "rep79"
Subject: Name confusion
To: "Gary Numan"
Just to set the record straight..........
I am rep79.
I am not Replica79.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 12:37:31 +00
From: numanoid@talk21.com
Subject: NIN & Marrilyn Manson
To: digest@garynumanfan.nu
Alec enquired as to wether anybody had been turned on to NIN or Marilyn Manson because of Numan? Well, I thought I'd listen to some stuff by the above so I went out and bought Holywod by Marilyn Manson and The Fragile by NIN because everybody has been on about them for some time now!!!! My findings??? I thought they were both excellent cds, in fact I was so impressed that I'm going to see Manson at the NEC in January. Is anybody else going? I can definately see links between Numan/Manson/NIN in all 3 cds. Agree or disagree? I'm interested to know.
Gp
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 15:44:49 -0500
From: Matthew Roberts
Subject: NIN Metal
To: Gary Numan
So Trent's Metal has finally seen the light of day. Very nice it is too,
and he even mixed a bit of M.E. in there to prove his Numan credentials.
Still, I can't help contemplating how gratifying it would have been if he=
had turned his gaze on, say, The Secret or Soul Protection.
Tickets number A74 & A75 have just turned up for Southampton, which is ni=
ce
also. Now, should I fly to Germany at the weekend?
Alan Spurr was rather damning in his assessment of Numan 2000 which is, I=
guess, a way of provoking discussion. I don't know when it happened
exactly, but I've known for a long time that Gary will only ever be a
"cult" artist now, which is probably for the best.
It is, by no means, a bad thing. It means critical acclaim, slow burning
albums (Velvet Underground anyone?), storming shows (I was downstairs at
Brixton and it was packed. The young woman in front of me was rather nice=
,
in a studenty way, too) and artistic freedom (think Sacrifice vs. Machine=
&
Soul).
It's not Goth Alan. If anything it is Nu-Metal. What is the alternative?
Retro electronica or retro guitar rock? As the Guardian (THE arts newspap=
er
in the UK) said recently:
"They ("British indie-flavoured rock") have a broad, unexclusive appeal.
Your mum quite likes that Travis song... and why not? But go to a Slipkno=
t
or Amen gig, and there is hardly anyone over 21 there. Even more amazingl=
y,
everyone, not just the front third of the crowd, is going stark steaming
slam-diving crackers for it.... you either love or hate them."
Of course, Gary isn't Slipknot. From the three tracks of theirs I know,
he's much better. The point is, Gary is making music the "public" will ha=
te
- fantastic! He could make music the public would love, but no one would
hear it, so what's the difference in terms of sales? The difference is, i=
n
20 years Pure will be selling much better than Toploader's album, or Add =
N
to X. And I will feel cool, as a 50 year old, saying that I like Gary
Numan.
Sorry to be so sanguine, but you'll have to do a lot better to upset me.
Er, Clea? Afrika Bambaata and Celine Dion? It's not really quite the same=
is it? A poor analogy. Afrika Bambaata and Neil Young perhaps. Or Mark E.=
Smith. The exciting point is, AB is a revered, influential figure. I'm no=
t
sure how much he can bring to Gary's music, but he can bring a million
bucks worth of kudos. All Celine Dion can bring is a million bucks worth =
of
teeth.
Take care,
Matthew Roberts
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 23:45:30 +1100
From: "Numaboy"
Subject: Numan in Aus
To:
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Hi all,=20
I just got home to Sydney from London where I attended my first Numan =
gig, I have to say that it was an amazing experience, 'Pure" live was =
brilliant. Ive been reading a lot of critisism about the new album but =
dont share it, im a weird fan, probably cause im down under but i really =
liked Outland and Machine and Soul but didnt get into the more fancied =
Sacrifice and Exile, dont get me wrong, i still bought them and still =
play them just not my fav's if you know what I mean. Pure tho has really =
got me in, I dont know much about Goth or other comparisons I just like =
it as a Numan album, its great stuff.
My view on why it didnt sell, well i found it hard to find at Virgin in =
London, on the bottom shelf and not a cover easily recognisable from a =
distance due to the darkness plus lack of air play and publicity, got =
nothing to do with the quality of the album. So its hard to attract new =
buyers and fans :(
It was pleasing to see so many young people at Brixton tho, was surpised =
at the number of 20 year olds crushing for a front row position.
Spare a thought for us poor Aussie's, I cant find it anywhere here, all =
the CD shops I call into tell me they arent going to get it in :(( .
To me Numan has lost nothing, except support from the industry, i admire =
the man even more for continuing to produce and perform without the =
support, we as fans should all get behind him and spread the word.
Cheers
Darrin
http://numaboy.tripod.com =20
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Hi all,
I just got home to Sydney from = London where I=20 attended my first Numan gig, I have to say that it was an amazing = experience,=20 'Pure" live was brilliant. Ive been reading a lot of critisism = about the=20 new album but dont share it, im a weird fan, probably cause im down = under but i=20 really liked Outland and Machine and Soul but didnt get into the more = fancied=20 Sacrifice and Exile, dont get me wrong, i still bought them and still = play them=20 just not my fav's if you know what I mean. Pure tho has really got me = in, I dont=20 know much about Goth or other comparisons I just like it as a Numan = album, its=20 great stuff.
My view on why it didnt sell, well i = found it=20 hard to find at Virgin in London, on the bottom shelf and not a cover = easily=20 recognisable from a distance due to the darkness plus lack of air play = and=20 publicity, got nothing to do with the quality of the album. So its hard = to=20 attract new buyers and fans :(
It was pleasing to see so many young people at = Brixton tho,=20 was surpised at the number of 20 year olds crushing for a front row=20 position.
Spare a thought for us poor = Aussie's, I cant=20 find it anywhere here, all the CD shops I call into tell me they arent = going to=20 get it in :(( .
To me Numan has lost nothing, except = support=20 from the industry, i admire the man even more for continuing to produce = and=20 perform without the support, we as fans should all get behind him and = spread the=20 word.
Cheers
Darrin
http://numaboy.tripod.com &nb=
sp; =20
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 12:49:22 -0500
From: Mark Hubbard
Subject: ponderings
To: Numan Digest
>alecw Wrote:
>
>i'd be interested to know how many numan fans have been turned on to
goth,
>indust rock, NIN, manson and that lot because of gary.
Well, I was not turned onto them by Numan, as I have liked these styles
of Music for years. I am a product of the late 70's early 80's music
scene. But, unlike many others, my musical taste is very wide spread,
ranging from Trance like stuff of most bands on 4AD like Dead Can Dance
and This Mortal Coil etc., all the way to Cat Stevens, Back to punk and
Devo, then back to Souxie, Cure, back to much of what is current. In
the 80's, I worked at a used/import record shop, so I was exposed to a
great deal of new music. There is probably a lot of stuff I would like
now, but here in central Indiana, we do not have any real college radio
stations etc.. And being in a position in life, where my financial
responsibilities keep me from buying a lot of new music on a whim, I may
be missing a lot of great stuff. Although the 80's stuff may be my
favorite, I am not stuck there. Numan is My Favorite artist by far and
has been since 1980, but not the only music I listen to.
>Numaniac@aol.com Wrote:
>
>lemme ask you guys somethin'....why do people come to the digest to
complain? I could've >swore that this was for numanoids to gather and
relate to their likings. call me crazy but >saying that you don't like
an album isn't really...eh...well, there's not point to it.
Well, speaking for myself, as someone who I do not think has ever really
complained about any Numan music here, I see the digest as a discussion
group, and not a Praise Shrine only. If we all just sat around saying
"great stuff", and all nodded our heads, I should think that to be very
dull indeed. I like to see people's points of view, in both ways.
Actually, so far, I have not felt like anyone really slagged Pure, just
pointed out they do not think it is the everything album that others
think it is. Simply different points of view.
OK, now for a side survey......How many on this digest have Numan
Tattoos? I can think of at least 3.
Numanally yours,
Mark Hubbard
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 00:44:58 -0000
From: "Ken Bryant"
Subject: Pure and "Best Album"?
To: "Numan Digest"
Hello!
>From: thoutby@fusiongroup.co.uk (Tim Houtby)
>"Replica79" says:
>>" I can't imagine how anyone who owns his earlier material could
>>consider this [Pure] his best work. "
>LETS PUT THAT TO A POLL THEN - YOU MIGHT BE SURPRISED, 79.
It sounds like a good idea to me!
I agree that Gary's earlier work was far more innovative... at least from
the far less cynical mind of the ten-year-old I was when I first heard
Numan. I think perspective means a lot here!
That written...
Gary's most creative and innovative works, in my opinion, are:
#2) Replicas
#1) Telekon
Does anyone else have a 'top two list' of most creative and innovative Numan
albums? I will be happy to keep count and post the final results of this
poll on NumaNet (http://members.nbci.com/numaniac/ ) December 30, 2000. Of
course, I may have to count votes from Florida over and over until they come
out the way I want them to.
Let the voting begin!
Later!
Ken "The Numaniac" Bryant
NumaNet: http://members.nbci.com/numaniac/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 00:46:22 -0700
From: "Joey Lindstrom"
Subject: Pure et al
To: "digest@garynumanfan.nu"
Some interesting comments in past Digests, that I'd like to add my own
two-bits to:
Some have questioned those of us who REALLY like "Pure". "Telekon" was
mentioned as being Gary's best album and that Pure just doesn't
compare. Well, as one who has, since the early days of this Digest,
championed the cause of "Telekon" (which provoked much laughter in some
quarters), I have to say that "Pure" beats it. Granted, not by much,
but it DOES beat it.
We'll never all agree on this, of course. But here's my own personal
acid test: while I am a LONG time Numanoid, and buy just about
everything out there with his name on it, the fact remains that there
are at least one track on *EVERY* Numan album that I hit the skip
button for. Sometimes I'll listen to that track or those tracks, but
often I'll jump ahead to a "better" song. Some of these songs happen
to be the personal favourite songs of other Numan fans, and THEY in
turn may skip over the songs I love best.
I don't do this with "Pure", though. I like every cotton-pickin' song
on it, and I like 'em a LOT. Granted, some more than others, but there
isn't a song on this album I'll jump over to get to the next one.
Moreover, I think he's done a great job of PACING this album - each
song flows well into the next song. You *WANT* to listen to the whole
thing through, without interruption.
Now, as to Gary's career. Yes, I agree, a reality check is likely
needed. "Pure" hasn't sold shit outside of the hard-core group of fans
he's had for the last 20 years.
What pisses me off about this is that NON-NUMANOIDS LOVE THIS ALBUM
WHEN THEY GET THE CHANCE TO HEAR IT. As some of you may know, I drive
a taxicab. I play "Pure" for my customers. The reaction to "Pure" has
been totally unlike the reaction to *ANY* of Gary's previous albums,
including "Exile". "Exile" got some interest from my passengers, but
just as many who loved it were liable to ask me to play something
different. NOT ONCE in the last month and a half has ANYBODY asked me
to play something else. Some ignore it, but the majority (ie: MORE
THAN FIFTY PERCENT) ask interested questions, and about 10% ask me to
write down the name of the album and Gary's name, and I've been doing
it - to the point where the owner of the cab I drive has complained
that I'm using up too many taxi receipts. :-)
The point is that, for the first time in a long time, Gary's released
an album capable of winning over non-Numan fans. And the bloody thing
is getting no radio airplay and no promotional support from Eagle or
Spitfire. Frankly, it's an excellent example of just what's wrong with
the music industry.
How to solve this problem? I don't know. What I do have are a few
suggestions, though, that might help... whereas the alternative is the
status quo, which none of us likes.
First, play the album for your non-Numan-loving friends, as some of you
have already said you're doing. Play it for strangers if you have the
opportunity, like I do. Get some word of mouth going and ENCOURAGE
people to buy it if they like it. Volunteer to place an order for them
or go to the local record store and pick up their copy for them.
Second, email the people at Eagle and Spitfire and ask 'em why "Pure"
isn't being properly supported and/or promoted. TELL THEM what your
non-Numan-loving friends are saying about this great piece of work.
Maybe, just maybe, we can convince somebody that they DO have something
worth promoting, that will give them some return for their dollar. And
understand their reluctance: given Gary's past track record, they are
going to take the position that spending money to promote more Numan
music is throwing good money after bad. We need to convince them
otherwise.
Third, bug your local radio stations - those that play Manson, NIN, and
similar music. Try to find a friendly ear that will give it a few
plays and guage the reaction. If even *ONE* major radio station
discovers that their fans like it, and start playing it a lot, that
*CAN* produce a snowball effect - I've seen it happen many, many times
and I do have a bit of a radio background so I understand a bit about
how these things work (not a lot, but some). Hey, nobody ever heard of
Melissa Etheridge until her album was test-played here in Calgary, to
great success (and it was that success that convinced other stations to
play her).
Some folks are saying that "Pure" is derivative and that it lacks
Numanness. I say: sure, it's derivative. Show me *ANY* music that
isn't derivative to some degree. Just about all of the new wave hits
of the 80's were derivative of Gary. :-) This, in and of itself, is
not necessarily a bad thing and could be the key to returning Gary to
at least some of his former glory, because it makes it ACCESSIBLE to a
more-mainstream crowd. As to the lacking of Numanness... here I
strongly disagree. What some of you seem to miss is that Gary Numan is
now 42. He's not 20 anymore. HE IS A DIFFERENT MAN, with a lot of
life experience now. His outlook is different, his perspective is
different. His LIFE is different. ALL of this shows up in "Pure" - as
somebody else said, I think it's his most PERSONAL album since
"Telekon". What has changed is the person.
And that's all. :-)
/ From the desk of Joey Lindstrom
/
/ Women... can't live with 'em... can't shoot 'em.
/ --Steven Wright
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 07:24:48 EST
From: Zerfboy@aol.com
Subject: Pure reviews and American Tour
To: digest@garynumanfan.nu
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I have been watching the folks bashing Pure, it's lack of sales, promo, etc.
I agree with the chap who feels Gary's only fan base of note is the over 30,
over 40 crowd who stretch way back with him...to some degree. Most of the
new albums in the 90's pale compared to the old stuff.
I have heard a couple of cuts from Pure on Napster (now dont freak out!) and
while Pure and RIP seemed promising the other things I heard didn't see very
interesting-although I only heard snippets of IN Vitro and another cut.
My only concern is that the American Tour go through in the Spring. I just
missed catching some shows at the last one as I had discovered all the online
resources for Gary information only days before the final gig. My wife and I
plan to travel to whatever series of east coast cities we can get to in order
to see several shows. I know no matter what I think of the music he has
produced in the last 15 years (as opposed to the 6 years or so before that)
that the shows will always be very fulfilling.
With the variety of musical tastes and outlets for "entertainment" available
these days, it is hard to imagine Gary ever amassing any notable increase in
his fan base. He will always be a niche artist whom a small, albeit fervent
group of folks care a great deal about. Asfor me, I find his music enough.
I have read the "Gary book" and while I LOVE alot of his tunes, personally he
is really not that fascinating.
I mean, I like him. I just would not worship him and I feel that is the way
HE would like things to be. I feel a guy's private life is his own bisuness
and who are we to discuss in or ponder it online? As for his "religious
lyrics" - who cares? Mix down the vocals a littel more and they wouldn't
even be there.
Good luck Gary,
Matt
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I have been watching the folks bashing Pure, it's lack of sales, promo, etc.
I agree with the chap who feels Gary's only fan base of note is the over 30,
over 40 crowd who stretch way back with him...to some degree. Most of the
new albums in the 90's pale compared to the old stuff.
I have heard a couple of cuts from Pure on Napster (now dont freak out!) and
while Pure and RIP seemed promising the other things I heard didn't see very
interesting-although I only heard snippets of IN Vitro and another cut.
My only concern is that the American Tour go through in the Spring. I just
missed catching some shows at the last one as I had discovered all the online
resources for Gary information only days before the final gig. My wife and I
plan to travel to whatever series of east coast cities we can get to in order
to see several shows. I know no matter what I think of the music he has
produced in the last 15 years (as opposed to the 6 years or so before that)
that the shows will always be very fulfilling.
With the variety of musical tastes and outlets for "entertainment" available
these days, it is hard to imagine Gary ever amassing any notable increase in
his fan base. He will always be a niche artist whom a small, albeit fervent
group of folks care a great deal about. Asfor me, I find his music enough.
I have read the "Gary book" and while I LOVE alot of his tunes, personally he
is really not that fascinating.
I mean, I like him. I just would not worship him and I feel that is the way
HE would like things to be. I feel a guy's private life is his own bisuness
and who are we to discuss in or ponder it online? As for his "religious
lyrics" - who cares? Mix down the vocals a littel more and they wouldn't
even be there.
Good luck Gary,
Matt
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 10:00:55 -0000
From: "Lex Machinery (UK) Limited"
Subject: Replica 79 / error earthlink / alan spurr
To:
In the digest recently There have been 3 really interesting reads giving
their honest analysis of Pure, and in particular Gary's transition of
influence.
1. Replica 79
2. error @earthlink
3. alan_spurr.
I can't help but seem to agree with all three. After listening to the album
to and from work almost twice a day now since its release date. I honestly
do prefer the old Numan that we all know. My most favoured album being
Telekon and then Sacrifice followed by Exile. Gary Numan, might suddenly
be receiving good reviews from people such as Mansun , Nin etc, but we
never followed Numan for this reason. We all admire Numan because of his
unique individuality. Numan managed, and admittedly struggled at times for
at least 20 years without these people. Not to mention such terrible reviews
from so many others.
However his fans remained. Numan does not therefore need to even try to be
remotely like anyone but himself. I do like Pure, especially live. In fact
I think that 'Prayer for the Unborn is going to be in my top 5 of Numan
favourites. The first track is incredibly powerful and my third favourite is
'Listen to my Voice. It is very tempting 'Gary' to follow these peoples
music because they like yours but just remember the reason why they like
your music. It is simply because it 's so you. No one produces tracks like
'Exile, Exhibition, I sing Rain , Noise Noise, This Wreckage, Absolution,
God Only knows, The Dark, and just about 35 others. So consequently I'm
going to give 'Pure' a rest for a few weeks . No doubt I will come back to
it.
We all live in the same Museum, we all re-arrange the same old songs.
den. J.
9396
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 00:32:27 -0500
From: Terry Burke
Subject: selling "Pure"
To: Gary Numan
So far I have sold 3 copies of "Pure" by playing the promo CD that
Spitfire Records mailed to me. The customers who hear it all ask, "who
is this?" and are VERY surprised that it's
Numan. Most of them thought he vanished years ago, and so far each has
bought a copy of the CD. My goal is to sell at least 10 copies by
January 2001.
If anyone else on this list works in a music store...play "Pure" daily!
Terry in Cincinnati, Ohio
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 12:20:29 -0500
From: Mark Hubbard
Subject: Spitfire!? Are you there??
To: Numan Digest
Well,
I have gotten several people interested in Pure, but alas, no one can
find it! (Indiana, USA) Several shops say they can order it, and some
will do that. But let's face it, to some extent, musical purchases of a
new artist are an impulse type buy. These people will pick up Pure if
they find it, but may not order it. If they buy Pure, then they may get
interested in listening to some of his other stuff etc. But......they
gotta get it. When Beggars released Numan's catalog a couple years ago,
that stuff was very easy to find.
BTW, I have asked before, but gotten no responses. How many units were
Eagle/Spitfire etc.., planning on selling? I mean, for a chart position
of 58, equates to what type of sales. Really curious. Again, did the
Beggars re-issues of PP and Telekon etc., out sell Pure? If their
availability were any indication, I would think so.
Numanally yours,
Mark Hubbard
------------------------------
End of Gary Numan Digest
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