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Actually, going by the class roster, they would have started the year with 29 students had it not been for Kouichi's late transfer. I understood 29 to be the "magic number" all along. As long as they had an empty desk in a classroom for 30 students, Class 3-3 could survive the year intact, blithely unaware of "another" existence.

Once Kouichi filled the empty desk, the class was forced to entertain the possibility of "another" among them who shouldn't be there. Hence the elaborate need to make one student "non-existent" when it was full, to take the number back down to 29.

No, there is never an empty desk. That's precisely how they can tell there is an extra person: they are missing a desk since one student was never accounted for.

And there's no magic number. Take a look at the list from 1996, it presently indicates there were 30 students. That is after the extra one, Asakura Mami was removed. That means they were 31 (30+Mami) that year.

No, there is never an empty desk. That's precisely how they can tell there is an extra person: they are missing a desk since one student was never accounted for.

And there's no magic number. Take a look at the list from 1996, it presently indicates there were 30 students. That is after the extra one, Asakura Mami was removed. That means they were 31 (30+Mami) that year.

I'm not sure that's how it worked. Mami's name was written down by Chibiki to remind him who the "extra" was. She wasn't the 31st student per se, but among the 30 of the Class of 96.

In any case, if this is all about there being 31 instead of 30 students in the Class of 98, where's No. 31 in the roster?

Another was already present in class before Kouichi transfered in, so they should have already been one desk short at the beginning of the year as usual. And yet they weren't, and in the process were fooled into thinking this would be a safe year.

The thing that still bothers me is why the hell is Kouichi's name on a roster dated from march.
If his name is on the roster back in march wouldn't they put in a desk for him at the start of the year?

That's the first time they mention it. It's a pretty big twist, since it confirms the calamity started before she was even asked to play the non-existent person: That means she's not responsible in any way for what happened and that kouichi is not the extra student. I think it also gives us a big enough clue to figure out who another is.

Anyway, i think the explanation was clear enough: Mei's mother kirika is in reality her aunt. Her real mother, kirika's twin sister, gave birth to twins herself: Mei and misaki. Mei was given to kirika after she lost her own baby. Mei and her cousin were actually sisters, that's why the calamity was able to kill her. Everybody overlooked her death since no one but mei knew misaki was her sister.

Thx for sorting that out for me, i might have figured it by myself after i read my comment again but i wasn't sure if i was right.

The thing that still bothers me is why the hell is Kouichi's name on a roster dated from march.
If his name is on the roster back in march wouldn't they put in a desk for him at the start of the year?

There are only 30 desks in the classroom, which is presumably the same for every other classroom in the third year. Hence, as far as the new principal was concerned, there was no problem adding Kouichi to a class of 29 students, since he figured there was one desk to spare anyway. That's why I believe no special arrangement was made in Kouichi's case at all.

The reason 29 is significant — to me at least — is that the Class of 72 was supposed to have graduated with 29 students, not 30. It's because they went to all the extent of pretending that the original Misaki hadn't died that set the ball rolling. So, the stop-gap solution, it seemed, was to make sure the number stays at 29 forever, either by physically rostering only 29 students for Class 3-3 the year before, or by pretending one student doesn't exist if they still somehow end up with 30 students at the beginning of the year.

I'm not sure that's how it worked. Mami's name was written down by Chibiki to remind him who the "extra" was. She wasn't the 31st student per se, but among the 30 of the Class of 96.

In any case, if this is all about there being 31 instead of 30 students in the Class of 98, where's No. 31 in the roster?

He had to write it down because she disappeared from the roster. The existence of the extra person is completely erased from documents and memories at the end of the year. There is No.31 because there is only 30 people in it now.

Let's assume you are correct about 30 being the cursed numbers: wouldn't it be incredibly easy to prevent the calamity? Just put 26 students in that class, problem solved. It shouldn't be too big an issue to spread the remaining three students among the other class. Besides, it's highly unlikely the number of student in the class is 29 every year.

Quote:

Originally Posted by totoum

The thing that still bothers me is why the hell is Kouichi's name on a roster dated from march.
If his name is on the roster back in march wouldn't they put in a desk for him at the start of the year?

They did and the extra student stole his desk. But wait, if that was the case, they should have realized there was an extra student sooner... I need to think about this more. It kind of kills my theory anyway. When did they show the roster by the way?

Let's assume you are correct about 30 being the cursed numbers: wouldn't it be incredibly easy to prevent the calamity? Just put 26 students in that class, problem solved. It shouldn't be too big an issue to spread the remaining three students among the other class. Besides, it's highly unlikely the number of student in the class is 29 every year.

I think we're expected to believe that the number of teenagers in Yomiyama has not yet declined so badly that the school has trouble filling all its classes.

And it does seem that they always have 30 students in the class, including for this year, the Class of 98. I ask again, where's student No. 31 in this class? I don't think the phenomenon actually blinds the students or even us, the viewers, to the extent where people can't even count properly any more.

Moreover, as I suggested earlier, the whole ruse seems to be a confidence trick in the first place. The fewer the chances of the students becoming aware of an extra existence, the smaller the risk of triggering the phenomenon.

Her dream at the beginning, coupled with earlier indications that she has previously met Kouichi and that Kouichi has been in Yomiyama before but had that memory erased... It's a pretty strong hint if you ask me. It would seem they did meet, and then she died some time after that (either because she was in class 9-3 at the time, or because her "stupid brother!" was), then she came back as the Another with both hers and Kouichis relevant memories erased...

And if she's not the Another, that would mean there is some other significant backstory to be told regarding her, Kouichi and - apparently - her brother. They wouldn't bring that up at this point and not follow up on it, would they? And there is only two episodes left...

And it does seem that they always have 30 students in the class, including for this year, the Class of 98. I ask again, where's student No. 31 in this class? I don't think the phenomenon actually blinds the students or even us, the viewers, to the extent where people can't even count properly any more.

I never said they were 31 this year as well. I'm arguing the number isn't fixed, so there were 30 + 1 extra students in 1996 and 29 + 1 extra now in 1998. Do we know how many students there were in Reiko's class?

I'm a bit confused: didn't they say that the class started with the right number of students before Koichi enrolled? Then how could the calamity have started in April (before Koichi enrolled) like Mei suggested when the class started out with the correct number of students? Would it had only started after Koichi enrolled like the other students believe? Unless there was already an extra student and people just couldn't count. - nvm

I first thought Akazawa blaming Mei was bad character on her part but, after hearing Mei said she knows she has the ability to differentiate the extra student all along, then I think Akazawa's blame on Mei is partly correct. Mei had the ability to help others but withheld it because of her own fear and denial. Although I understand that prior to the tape, she probably felt it was useless since she didn't know what to do even after identifying the other but she could have helped Akazawa in some way by revealing the information of her ability.

But I guess Mei decides to reveal her skill now since they know how to possibly stop the curse.

My main suspicions are on the assistant homeroom teacher (I guess she's now the homeroom teacher) and on that glasses girl student who was with them on the beach trip. She's often around the main characters (walked by Koichi in this ep), shown in the ED, but we hardly see any interaction of the main characters with her or even her with us viewers. Why is she on the ED when she hardly talk and we hardly see her? Also, she gave Koichi odd glances in the very first episode but then became background after that. Suspicious!

Edit: Also, why was the name of extra in the 1993 class got deleted? It's not like it is the same dead student that comes back. Knowing who that year's extra wouldn't make any difference in the present year.

Kanon's first post on this thread follows my exact train of thought. The revelation that the calamity probably began before Kouichi arrived is massive. If everything else we "know" turns out to be true, there's only one possible suspect. Maybe two, if you fudge a certain someone's relationship with class 3.

Having said that, even if we really do have the answer to that question, there's still PLENTY of other things to speculate on. Just off the top of my head:

- What is Reiko's deal? She has some dark secret, whether it's related to the family, her time in Class 3 or something that everyone has forgotten. Everyone except, maybe, Rei-chan.

- Mei is a bundle of mystery herself. She just happened to get a Sixth-Sense magic doll eye by coincidence? The doll imagery has largely disappeared from the scene transition, but I still think they're important.

- Kouichi was in town two years ago. Why? More important, why is it vital to the calamity that no one remembers?

- Finally, still waiting for the payoff to his collapsed lung. And to his father's odd comment that "I had it twice, then never again, so you're done." Someone said he was wearing pajamas in Izumi's dream. I missed that. Were they the same ones he wore in the hospital in episode 1?

It seems there's much more to reveal than just "who is dead."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanon

The big revelation in the tape was... not big at all, at least not for us. It changes everything for the gang though, as they finally found out a way to stop the curse, but to do that, they will have to kill somebody. First, they need to figure out who the extra person is and make damn sure they are correct... unfortunately, it seems Teshigawara has been a bit hasty and has committed a real murder. Huhu, I figured that would happen at some point.

I only wish they had played up the nightmarish position those who listened to the tape are in: The longer they delay, the more people die, and the more likely they are next. They could have wrung a lot more suspense out of the suspicion and doubt turning them against one another. It seems like they already pulled the trigger on the natural conclusion.

Next week looks like the death trackers are going to be busy. The stage seems set for the climax.

I never said they were 31 this year as well. I'm arguing the number isn't fixed, so there were 30 + 1 extra students in 1996 and 29 + 1 extra now in 1998. Do we know how many students there were in Reiko's class?

I don't recall that the number of students in Reiko's class was revealed. But we do know for certain that the Class of 72 originally had 30 students, and was supposed to have just 29 when they graduated. All you have to do is count the students in the graduation photo, shown in Ep6 (at around 14:30), for example.

Also, in Ep6, check the numbering of the class roster for the Class of 96, shown at around 17:40. It officially lists 30 students, not 31.

Unless, of course, you're claiming that during the time the phenomenon was in effect, there were 31 students, with one name disappearing from the roster once the year is over. Which is possible, I suppose, but it doesn't gel with what I think is supposed to be official number of students in each class, as the school's history seems to suggest.

I never said they were 31 this year as well. I'm arguing the number isn't fixed, so there were 30 + 1 extra students in 1996 and 29 + 1 extra now in 1998. Do we know how many students there were in Reiko's class?

There's 30 names in the roster chikibi shows Kouichi and Mei in episode 7 , so you can assume 30 + 1 .

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanon

They did and the extra student stole his desk. But wait, if that was the case, they should have realized there was an extra student sooner... I need to think about this more. It kind of kills my theory anyway. When did they show the roster by the way?

Wonder what Akazawa's dream means. Wow how can she still blame Mei like that. Hope the asthmatic kid is ok. Did dumb Teshigawara just kill a kid to try and save the class. Well Mei knows who it is, if she knew all along why didn't she tell anyone?

Haha, you know, the confusion in classroom arrangements can be easily resolved if we are more familiar with Japanese school conventions. Meaning, it seems to me that we're missing clarification on an important assumption, which is whether the number of desks in a typical Japanese classroom is fixed or variable.

I'm working on the assumption that the number of desks is fixed at 30 every year. Hence the reason they'd end up one desk short if they rostered 30 students into Class 3-3 the year before — another existence joins the 30, hence taking the total to 31, one more than the number of desks.

It seems that others are assuming that the number of desks is variable, meaning that if you planned for 29 students the year before, you'd arrange for exactly 29 desks in the classroom. Kouichi joins the roster, BAM, one desk short.

Going by my own hazy memories of school, I don't recall the latter case at all. Each classroom always starts with the same number of desks from the year before. There was never a case when janitors would shuffle desks around to make things "just nice". That's just too much of pointless logistics. So, by extension, I would expect a Japanese classroom to work the same way.

Someone said he was wearing pajamas in Izumi's dream. I missed that. Were they the same ones he wore in the hospital in episode 1?

Yes, they're the same blue pajamas. First thing I noticed when the camera pulled out to reveal him.

Dreams are tricky things to interpret. It's possible that the dream was a true memory of what happened. In which case, my questions are (1) why was Kouichi wearing pajamas? Do they signify something like a previous hospitalization? If he was hospitalized, why was he wandering by a waterway?

If her dream wasn't a true memory of what happened, then it's likely a memory that's breaking through. By this I mean, she's probably remembering meeting Kouichi but doesn't have the full details of their first meeting recalled. So she's dressed him in the first clothing she remembers seeing him, i.e. his hospital pajamas. In this case, the pajamas are likely yet another red herring.

Unless, of course, you're claiming that during the time the phenomenon was in effect, there were 31 students, with one name disappearing from the roster once the year is over. Which is possible, I suppose, but it doesn't gel with what I think is supposed to be official number of students in each class, as the school's history seems to suggest.

Yes! That's exactly what I'm saying. Mami's name is not on the roster anymore and there is no blank spot as far as I can tell, so the number was decreased when she was erased at the end of the year.

Actually, now that I think about it, what you're saying fits perfectly. There are 30 desks and 30 students each year, so when an extra 31 student comes in, they are short one desk (listen to Misaki's explanation in episode 5, there is a desk and even books missing when there is an extra student among them). Unfortunately, that doesn't explain why they started to freak out when Kouichi was added in, since the number of desks should have been right...

Quote:

Originally Posted by totoum

There's 30 names in the roster chikibi shows Kouichi and Mei in episode 7 , so you can assume 30 + 1 .

Loved this episode. Not just for the revelations, but also for the warm and intimate interactions between Kouichi and Mei. Liked the strange intimate feel of the shot of their shoes facing each other. Liked Abe Atsushi as Kouichi. Loved Mei's voice, done by Takamori Natsumi (Akari in Jewelpet Tinkle, Subaru in Houkago no Pleaiades, Sasha in Mouretsu Pirates -- age 25):

And as for spoilers, no spoilers required for info about ep10 in the ep10 thread. That's one of the (few?) benefits of having a separate forum like this.

- Finally, still waiting for the payoff to his collapsed lung. And to his father's odd comment that "I had it twice, then never again, so you're done." Someone said he was wearing pajamas in Izumi's dream. I missed that. Were they the same ones he wore in the hospital in episode 1?

Yes, Koichi and Izumi wore the same outfits: same hospital PJ with cotton jacket and Izumi wore the same school uniform.

Looking back at ep 1, Koichi actually enrolled in class 3-3 in April but suddenly fell ill and delayed going to school until a month later (May). The clock on his beside said 4/26. Mei's twin sister died the day before that on 4/25. So the calamity did start in April and not May like the other students thought.

So maybe Izumi and Koichi met before the calamity started but memories got wiped on the day Mei's twin died (day curse began).