chadfordinsider: LeBron & Bosh start at $14.5M ... $2M less starting salary than max. Wade starts at $14.2M. Overall each took about $15M less

That said, those ETOs make that $15MM less approximately $4 maybe (not bothering to look to do the math). Also, they have ETO's after 2013-2014 season and Player options for 2014-15 season. Will lose very little money in this whole thing.

Yeah, the leverage is that Riley almost certainly promised LeBron and Bosh 6 year deals with bigger raises, which meant the S&Ts had to happen. They can talk about sacrifice all they want, but it's nonsense.

If they really wanted to sacrifice to win, they would all take $10m per, which is still more money than anyone would ever need (esp considering all their prior earnings) so they could bring in some other players.

I know more about pizza than you. Much more in fact. - Cerebral_DownTime

chadfordinsider: LeBron & Bosh start at $14.5M ... $2M less starting salary than max. Wade starts at $14.2M. Overall each took about $15M less

That said, those ETOs make that $15MM less approximately $4 maybe (not bothering to look to do the math). Also, they have ETO's after 2013-2014 season and Player options for 2014-15 season. Will lose very little money in this whole thing.

Actually the best thing for us might be if they blow that thing up in 2014 and we still own two of their first round picks. As for the 2012 pick swap recall that in the Beasley trade Miami got the right to swap "an unspecified future first round pick" with the Timberwolves. That can't be 2011 or 2013 since those are traded to Toronto and us, so it's probably 2012. Seems to me we could end up with Minnesota's pick instead of ours in 2012 if we want to. (IOW: Minnesota gets Miami's pick, Miami gets our pick and we get Minnesota's pick.)

chadfordinsider: LeBron & Bosh start at $14.5M ... $2M less starting salary than max. Wade starts at $14.2M. Overall each took about $15M less

That said, those ETOs make that $15MM less approximately $4 maybe (not bothering to look to do the math). Also, they have ETO's after 2013-2014 season and Player options for 2014-15 season. Will lose very little money in this whole thing.

Don't lax Florida tax laws make this a profit move?

I wanna say the Ohio state income tax rate for the top earnings bracket is like 6.25%. I'm too lazy to do the math, but Florida's absence of a state income tax is significant.

"It's like dating a woman who hates you so much she will never break up with you, even if you burn down the house every single autumn." ~ Chuck Klosterman on Browns fans relationship with the Browns

aoxo1 wrote:FWIW the other option is that the Heat agreed to do S&Ts so there won't be any tampering investigations.

That's what I'm thinking. Cause you can be sure David Stern is going to be looking at this with a Kenneth Lay/Bill Clinton ferocity.

The fact its a sign and trade makes it untouchable, prolly even an unfinable offense? But there was clearly collusion here, Stern knows it, and is gonna do everything in his power to make sure this shit doesn't happen again. At least not this openly. The ego trio in that presser yesterday ... were basically joking about it.

Sterns gonna nip this shit in the bud just like the Artest fight and the Donaghy scandal. With expensive ticket prices, teams struggling financially, angst over baseballs system, and a sport where all the players are black and most of the ticket buyers are white ... its an even more potentially dangerous situation for Stern.

"It's like dating a woman who hates you so much she will never break up with you, even if you burn down the house every single autumn." ~ Chuck Klosterman on Browns fans relationship with the Browns

...and can we add Riley to the list of cowards in the NBA, will only attempt to coach when he has two or more super studs, used to really love Riles, now I hope he is collateral damage in the horrible events that I wish to unfold for LeBronte.

Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect."I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

aoxo1 wrote:FWIW the other option is that the Heat agreed to do S&Ts so there won't be any tampering investigations.

That's what I'm thinking. Cause you can be sure David Stern is going to be looking at this with a Kenneth Lay/Bill Clinton ferocity.

The fact its a sign and trade makes it untouchable, prolly even an unfinable offense? But there was clearly collusion here, Stern knows it, and is gonna do everything in his power to make sure this shit doesn't happen again. At least not this openly. The ego trio in that presser yesterday ... were basically joking about it.

Sterns gonna nip this shit in the bud just like the Artest fight and the Donaghy scandal. With expensive ticket prices, teams struggling financially, angst over baseballs system, and a sport where all the players are black and most of the ticket buyers are white ... its an even more potentially dangerous situation for Stern.

Just coincidence, or did one of our first hints come last November, when he said he was changing his number from #23 to #6 while playing vs the Heat???

Just keep piling up picks if that is the plan. Doesn't really matter since the break it down and rebuild it plan will not show fruit for at least 5 years. By that time you are locked and loaded and still have extra picks coming. Seems like shades of Detroit.

Plus any amount of picks give that flexibilty to make deals as the become available for a build on the fly...

Just make sure they aren't in 2027...

"When a man with money meets a man with experience, the man with experience leaves with money and the man with money leaves with experience."

Wabs I think as we move forward we will be shocked at how obvious it was he had no intention of staying, hasn't for a long time.

One question in this mess has been answered though, he definitely quit in the Boston series. He knew during that time he was not returning, and how does he leave if we win the whole thing, he simply wouldn't be able to and still spew his BS train of logic.

Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect."I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

wabo, you can't tell me they didn't plan to play together back when they all signed those mini-max deals 3 years ago. They all stayed in their towns either because (a) LeBron wanted to give it a few more shots in Cleveland or (b) more likely, no team had the space to bring all three guys in (I haven't verified this, but it seems almost certainly true).

Anyways, they knew that by giving teams a 3 year heads up, and with LeBron and Bosh making it clear they were very open to leaving, a feeding frenzy would be created and at least one team would be able to clear enough or almost enough room so neither had to sacrifice much at all (but that wouldn't stop guys signing contracts for $110m and who had already earned something like $50m on deals talk about how they love winning so much they are willing to give up a whole 10% of their salary).

I know more about pizza than you. Much more in fact. - Cerebral_DownTime

The way the deal works, the Heat are basically trading their salary-cap space for James

The Cavs get four draft picks and the trade exemption. LeBron gets more money. If I'm reading Windy correctly, the Heat lose cap space and draft picks. What do they get out of the deal? They're the ones who proposed it in the first place so it must be to their advantage somehow. Was part of their pitch to LeBron the promise that they would work a S&T with Cleveland so he gets the max after all? Hard to believe LeBron would agree to leave $37 million on the table (128-91).

As unlikely as it is, I will be so amused if the Heat don't win it all in the next 3-4 years and the same ESPN reporters who are sticking up for him are on national TV lambasting him for leaving and breaking up a team that had won 60+ games in consecutive seasons.

FUDU wrote:Wabs I think as we move forward we will be shocked at how obvious it was he had no intention of staying, hasn't for a long time.

One question in this mess has been answered though, he definitely quit in the Boston series. He knew during that time he was not returning, and how does he leave if we win the whole thing, he simply wouldn't be able to and still spew his BS train of logic.

Couldn't agree more with the tank job take...

The next Pluto/Windhorst tagteam book will be one for the ages around here

aoxo1 wrote:wabo, you can't tell me they didn't plan to play together back when they all signed those mini-max deals 3 years ago. They all stayed in their towns either because (a) LeBron wanted to give it a few more shots in Cleveland or (b) more likely, no team had the space to bring all three guys in (I haven't verified this, but it seems almost certainly true).

Anyways, they knew that by giving teams a 3 year heads up, and with LeBron and Bosh making it clear they were very open to leaving, a feeding frenzy would be created and at least one team would be able to clear enough or almost enough room so neither had to sacrifice much at all (but that wouldn't stop guys signing contracts for $110m and who had already earned something like $50m on deals talk about how they love winning so much they are willing to give up a whole 10% of their salary).

It's looking like it now, AO...

I'm guessing it was Miami all along though w/Riley, Wade masterminding this from the beginning...

I'm sure all 3 were laughing watching everyone dumping salary the last couple of years...

The way the deal works, the Heat are basically trading their salary-cap space for James

The Cavs get four draft picks and the trade exemption. LeBron gets more money. If I'm reading Windy correctly, the Heat lose cap space and draft picks. What do they get out of the deal? They're the ones who proposed it in the first place so it must be to their advantage somehow. Was part of their pitch to LeBron the promise that they would work a S&T with Cleveland so he gets the max after all? Hard to believe LeBron would agree to leave $37 million on the table (128-91).

SD:

Squeaky wheel gets the oil, so when Dan went Ballistic and went blood oath on the National scene , them low life bastards new World War 111Had just been declared and the smarmy way this came to light was fair game.

As has been said , the S & T washes away all sins and nips the investigation of collusion in the bud before it gained traction.

The Heat are now the evil empire , with no murderers row , just three light weight whores.

With that draft ammo Gilberts money and the public vow to make good on , his previous declarationto win one before Lebitch ain't idle feel good bullshit.

While I've been one saying he's known for 2 years he would stay, now in hindsight (w/me being a victim of a blind heart like many) I think it's exactly the opposite scenario. With the talk of all of them hoping to play together some day, the heads up to potential teams as said above (not to mention all the little obvious signs that LeBron is in fact a front runner with no true loyalty) I think he knew he was leaving but it took one of the other two to pull the trigger first to get him on board. IOW he IS not a man who makes his own decisions and needs to be not only catered to but led in whatever direction he wants to be led.

When he said he hadn't decided WHERE he was going until Thursday AM I believe him, b/c that is probably when he received 100% confirmation that Wade and Bosh were in fact going to be in Miami. He knew he was gone just didn't know to where.

The Boston series is so much clearer now, I think many of us feared it but just didn't want to truly realize it was happening.

Loyalty, honor and integrity mean nothing to LeBron James and now one has to question his true work ethic in the sense that he is going to take hands down the EASIEST road to the championship.

...and Wabs no doubt in my mind a book would be killer, and not just in NEO, problem is are any of the players going to have the guts to tell their story.

If I'm starting to sound like I'm suggesting a professional tank job, as in throwing a game, that's b/c I believe the possibility seems very real right now.

Last edited by FUDU on Sat Jul 10, 2010 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect."I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

DU, it showed up in the Bulls series, it just wasn't as obvious. Inconsistent effort.

And don't think for a second the rest of the team didn't figure it out. We didn't go from being the deepest team in the association to not being able to contend with the Celtics bench of Tony Allen and Glen Davis for no reason, and our scorers didn't disappear just because they were actually terrible.

No, that entire team had learned to feed off LeBron both physically and emotionally. His disinterest killed them all.

I know more about pizza than you. Much more in fact. - Cerebral_DownTime

Perfect point aoxo. Remember the noise during the Bulls series, and the warnings that the effort couldn't continue against better foes. Also doesn't help that the guy that quit on the team also dominated the ball for 90% of the shot clock.

"When a man with money meets a man with experience, the man with experience leaves with money and the man with money leaves with experience."

Orenthal wrote:Perfect point aoxo. Remember the noise during the Bulls series, and the warnings that the effort couldn't continue against better foes. Also doesn't help that the guy that quit on the team also dominated the ball for 90% of the shot clock.

SD:

how much you wanna bet TMLP doesn't have a million dollar slush fund to find that smokin gun.

That entourage better be squeaky clean , because if he can prove they profited in tanking our chanceswell that worm just done turned.

aoxo1 wrote:DU, it showed up in the Bulls series, it just wasn't as obvious. Inconsistent effort.

And don't think for a second the rest of the team didn't figure it out. We didn't go from being the deepest team in the association to not being able to contend with the Celtics bench of Tony Allen and Glen Davis for no reason, and our scorers didn't disappear just because they were actually terrible.

No, that entire team had learned to feed off LeBron both physically and emotionally. His disinterest killed them all.

Oh I know, I think some of us made some comments on it, but most likely assumed it was just lull in their focus.

But make no mistake about what I am suggesting now. Back then I felt it was an odd disinterest, now it more than appears it could have been an intentional yet subtle lack of effort to avoid the awkward scenario of winning a title and trying to leave as opposed to again not winning one and leaving. By not getting out of the EC it gives him the built in excuse to put blame on the team around him (including the FO) and avoid any accountability what so ever for actually trying to get the job done and possibly failing again. That excuse gets soaked up as a logical data point in all this by the media however, and funny how even the slightest talk of the elbow has completely disappeared and there has been virtually no mention of the lack of accountability taken by LeBron for the Cavaliers lack luster playoff push. LeBron never once stated himself he played poorly or let the team down and was never asked one time after the post game presser about the early exit and his performances.

Lebron went so far as to say his play has spoiled all of us, remember? That, in hindsight, stinks to high heaven of a man with no guts and no intention of finishing what he claims he started here in Cleveland.

Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect."I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

Yeah there is nothing that can be done if LeBron did in fact tank games, b/c if he didn't have bets riding on it then that is just the way it goes. Besides he wouldn't need to do it in that fashion, to make money. However if anyone was notified by LeBron and/of if anyone else profited, well then case closed obviously.

If Gilbert had/has any suspicions about this he would/will act on it, but it is a difficult thing to gain legit legs either way.

Who knows.

Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect."I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

The Plan: Stage 1 is simple, and not indicative of whether Gilbert is going to rebuild or plug and play.

He's going to use the exemption to get a player, which means he is going to try and use it soon (read while we are still over the cap). If he grabs a player fairly young w/ a lot of years left I'll be happy (read Big Al, although there is a lot of tread on Al's tires at this point). He's better off on the trade market w/ a $16MM expiring deal and Delonte's contract to play w/.

Thing is, not sure who all is selling at this point, as most teams still have a shit load of cap space and not many people to spend it on.

Going to be interesting to see how this plays out, as we realistically could end up just eating the exemption if nothing pops soon enough.

Orenthal wrote:Don't you think worst case they take a bad contract with maybe 2'ish years on it and grab some picks for the trouble? I gotta go look up the history of Presti's moves with the Ray Allen exemption.

Presti did.

I'd love to.

1-2 year bad deals, deal them when they are expiring to a contender that needs a piece for more picks, etc.... it's the Presti Plan!

Problem is, there aren't really "that" many teams over the tax right now since so many people dropped salary for this off-season. The usual suspects (Phoenix and NO) are under the tax. The suck teams are under the tax. Going to take a bit of time for all of this to hash out before we can nail down exactly who will be looking for salary relief.

Orenthal wrote:Don't you think worst case they take a bad contract with maybe 2'ish years on it and grab some picks for the trouble? I gotta go look up the history of Presti's moves with the Ray Allen exemption.

Presti did.

I'd love to.

1-2 year bad deals, deal them when they are expiring to a contender that needs a piece for more picks, etc.... it's the Presti Plan!

Problem is, there aren't really "that" many teams over the tax right now since so many people dropped salary for this off-season. The usual suspects (Phoenix and NO) are under the tax. The suck teams are under the tax. Going to take a bit of time for all of this to hash out before we can nail down exactly who will be looking for salary relief.

What I am seeing so far, and its really too early to claim anything, is that perhaps they are making a hybrid rebuild/plug and play. They have already picked up a massive trade exception along with 2 future firsts, the right to swap a first, and 2 seconds. That is bread and butter blow it up phase.

Now the funny thing is if you grab Al Jefferson, plenty of tread, but was straight out of HS, sign Shaq...

He turned the exception into Kurt Thomas and 2 more first round picks. Turned that into Brent Barry, Francisco Elson, and ANOTHER first round pick. Barry was waived and Elson expired as a free agent.

Basically the exception, which was only 9 million dollars, became 3 future first round picks. We already grabbed 2 firsts, and our exception is 16 million. I am sure as the trade deadline gets closer we will be able to do something, also the CBA issues may make that exception even more valuable. I can see the Cavaliers going many ways and whether it is rebuild or blow up they are getting huge flexibility.

"When a man with money meets a man with experience, the man with experience leaves with money and the man with money leaves with experience."

I think those draft picks are going to be fairly useless. The second rounders? Come on. Unless we luck out and get a Carlos Boozer, what are going to get in the 2nd round? Role players, which will never take you to the Finals without somebody like Kobe, Wade, or LeBron.

The first round picks in 2013 and 2015/16/17? Please. The Heat will have LeBron/Wade/Bosh through 2016 and Riles will have had 3-5 years to fill in the cracks. The Heat will be similar to the 2008-2010 Celtics, ony their Big Three will be much better than Pierce/Allen/Garnett. Those first round picks will be the last pick in the first round, or close to it. What does that get you? If you're the Cavs, Christian Eyenge.

And what about the Cavs own first round picks in the next five years. You heard Gilbert and Grant. They're not going to blow it up. They're going to try and get better starting now. They still have Mo, AV, and Hickson for a couple of years, and Antwan next year. They'll try and use the exemption to get better. They'll be stuck in .500 territory with no lottery pick for a few more years, and when those Miami picks come along they'll be looking at guys like Shannon Brown and Boobie and Christian.

Prosecutor wrote:I think those draft picks are going to be fairly useless. The second rounders? Come on. Unless we luck out and get a Carlos Boozer, what are going to get in the 2nd round? Role players, which will never take you to the Finals without somebody like Kobe, Wade, or LeBron.

The first round picks in 2013 and 2015/16/17? Please. The Heat will have LeBron/Wade/Bosh through 2016 and Riles will have had 3-5 years to fill in the cracks. The Heat will be similar to the 2008-2010 Celtics, ony their Big Three will be much better than Pierce/Allen/Garnett. Those first round picks will be the last pick in the first round, or close to it. What does that get you? If you're the Cavs, Christian Eyenge.

And what about the Cavs own first round picks in the next five years. You heard Gilbert and Grant. They're not going to blow it up. They're going to try and get better starting now. They still have Mo, AV, and Hickson for a couple of years, and Antwan next year. They'll try and use the exemption to get better. They'll be stuck in .500 territory with no lottery pick for a few more years, and when those Miami picks come along they'll be looking at guys like Shannon Brown and Boobie and Christian.