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And here is a pic of creeps trying to defend a keep against superior forces. I could only track elves, but dang near as many elves as we have creeps. That door to the flag room made defending keeps reasonable. Now it's basically wait at a rez circle for a larger force to show up. That is why we see grams camps or rez circle camps so much. There isn't any half decent places to be when outnumbered now days. Turbine keeps making the Moors worse n worse. You blame the freeps, but it's largely Turbine's and the creeps fault

And 1 more pic to show how turbine messes with stuff!

Originally Posted by mrfigglesworth

3. cap crit multipliers at +100%

It didn't always matter if freeps COULD hit for 6k. Out of 630 hits I only received 20 crits & 1 devestate. The # of times freeps did crit was so infrequent it didn't matter. Plus those crits could have been a quickshot crit or something silly like that. Crit defense was beastly for healers until they changed it all..ugh

Dravenn said i should try and group creeps up, which i have done and do still try to do, not my fault if they don't group, or when they do don't listen, ive tried and try, when it works its great, ive held a fraid in lugs with 2 minis and 2 rks healing cuz of excellent FF it was great, but the chance of getting a group that actually wants to fight at a camp is bloody nigh on impossible, sorry kate, i do agree with alot of what you say, but the folk who try just get ignored or ridiculed by idiots like Poundpuppy ''oh its pointless'' bs, so you can understand why alot of the old leaders just...gave up.

Nope its not your fault if they won't group up, which is why I am "pointing the finger" at them as well. They are trying though, I see it, even if no one else does. I wish we had a full time raid leader on creepside but we don't right now. I see how frustrating it is to lead with folks that don't listen, greenies with no maps and no audacity. I appreciate the folks that lead on both sides. I can't do it, though I'm trying my best. I think its gonna come down to we are gonna have to teach them they have to group or be camped or go do something else.

For anyone that has a creep or wants to start one, I'm gonna try to start groups in the mornings to show new folks where to get stuff for their maps and how to get them, and hopefully get them some audacity as well. Anyone and Everyone is welcome to join, just give me a holler when you log in.

This isn't directed at Poundpuppy. But back in the day I use to hear on a daily basis "oh it's pointless" from creeps when I gave them #### about not doing a single 1vs1 against minstrels or healing RKs. They'd say "minstrels and healing RKs is OP, it's pointless to try." Then I go on my R6 warg who I hadn't played in months and solo'd 5 different minstrels and 2 healing traited RKs over the course of 2 days. Obviously they weren't the best players, but they are the same players who all these R10+ wargs were saying are impossible to solo.

i beat allum couple of days back when it finally stopped pulling me to npcs. I appreciate its hard to beat people, and yes i still struggle with the better players, like aravyl :P.

I like the challenge when it comes to 1v1s, the off chance ones more but set up is just as fun for me. I feel in raids its largely a dps/heal race and thats why i just prefer my solo action, but ill do what i can.

It takes a while but i can beat some fairly half decent healers and the odd LM now and then. just takes practice and understanding the type of debuffs and working out a good rotation with the skills your toon has. Its useless crying about losing in a game where the goal is to kill...which is why i have the mentality of why run just fight :P course if theres more freeps and im not getting healed then F YOU!

i beat allum couple of days back when it finally stopped pulling me to npcs. I appreciate its hard to beat people, and yes i still struggle with the better players, like aravyl :P.

I like the challenge when it comes to 1v1s, the off chance ones more but set up is just as fun for me. I feel in raids its largely a dps/heal race and thats why i just prefer my solo action, but ill do what i can.

It takes a while but i can beat some fairly half decent healers and the odd LM now and then. just takes practice and understanding the type of debuffs and working out a good rotation with the skills your toon has. Its useless crying about losing in a game where the goal is to kill...which is why i have the mentality of why run just fight :P course if theres more freeps and im not getting healed then F YOU!

But i see your point.

You beat Allum cause she didn't spam Chord of Salvation. Right now it's extremely difficult for even the best reavers to kill the minstrels, unless the minstrels cut the reavers some slack, in the form of not spamming heals so much. Same goes for WL spamming LMs, and cd using burgs.

To the topic at hand - If you don't wanna get camped, get a mic and lead a group (small-big) - many times it doesn't take a full raid to break the camp, and you have dozens of tactics available - you can flank from the right/left/backside, you can map out and take an op to extend the fighting, you can take the safe path and control the frequently used freep routes, you can do us all a favor and take the Tree/Drake buff, you can ninja take the keep on the other side of the map, enabling creeps a fort (if other side wants to push in that fort is another matter) etc.. Imagination is the limit, it always was.

A couple of people on Vilya creepside lead groups frequently, small and big, if necessery, but you can't expect one "main raid leader" - that's a flawed concept because any overdependance on 1 person is uneffecient. We need new people to step up, show some balls, and lead - first, they might encounter a problem of not too many people sending them a tell, but in the long run, the players will recognise the effort, and join his/her groups, especially if they're successful. And to be successful, you must practice, there's no other way. On the bright note, im glad some old leaders are starting to lead groups again, like Sword and Polarbash - every time zone should have at least a few players capable of leading a decent raid. Same on freepside.

Overall, this pointing fingers is ########, because both sides do stupid stuff sometimes. The system is as it is, and it's unlikely it will radically change in the future, so deal with it, and adapt.

PS. I totally agree with some sort of a indicator of players in the area.

Overall, this pointing fingers is ########, because both sides do stupid stuff sometimes. The system is as it is, and it's unlikely it will radically change in the future, so deal with it, and adapt.

Idk what part of I'm pointing the finger at both sides folks don't seem to understand. Apparently my holier than thou attitude has folks confused. The reason I'm pointing the finger is to literally POINT out the fact that we need to adapt and change. I'm asking for help, and I'm offering it.

Idk what part of I'm pointing the finger at both sides folks don't seem to understand. Apparently my holier than thou attitude has folks confused. The reason I'm pointing the finger is to literally POINT out the fact that we need to adapt and change. I'm asking for help, and I'm offering it.

I didn't mean specifically you, I meant more as a general mentality of blaming the other side and factors such as freep/creep number, the classes that are on at that time etc. (someone already mentioned you can't control who logs at which time), which is happening both on freepside and creepside.

The whole numbers thing is really silly. Lets not overlook that people will come on creep or freepside, see the numbers or a particular person and flip sides. That alone will throw everything out of balance or ruin any good fighting that was going.
Bottom line of all of this is the people on vilya make or break the fun out there. Turbine has some fault in this but we as a server can make PvMP enjoyable for all.
The sparring session at good grams was pretty awesome. Luckily no knuckle heads showed up to ruin it.

A couple of people on Vilya creepside lead groups frequently, small and big, if necessery, but you can't expect one "main raid leader" - that's a flawed concept because any overdependance on 1 person is uneffecient. We need new people to step up, show some balls, and lead - first, they might encounter a problem of not too many people sending them a tell, but in the long run, the players will recognise the effort, and join his/her groups, especially if they're successful. And to be successful, you must practice, there's no other way. On the bright note, im glad some old leaders are starting to lead groups again, like Sword and Polarbash - every time zone should have at least a few players capable of leading a decent raid. Same on freepside..

I try to lead :P just when i wanna lead folks are in there duos or solos just don't send tells, im trying to get back into it, there was a time where bowsman specifically said 'how do u beat a wakelee or a frizle or an intharth raid' so i try to help out creeps with my own raid experience and they just dont seem to want the help...sad really

0:

You cannot expect changes because of this post. You have to confront the current leader and truce with them. The buckers, run the moors their own way, it's hard to convince them with their ego. They won't equate.

Second, I won't lend my Reaver until it is also fair on the solo side... but is it even safe to create our own game style.

Which is why I don't care anymore,

Because, when I decided to be in a different group. Which involved two groups and equated freeps. We first pushed and expected the second group to fight as well.... but the second group just stood there confused.. and you know their words... "giving out free points, you nubs"...

So, that's why for the month of September I kept my reaver at bed. And helped when I wanted.

We can't understand egotistic men.

This is not a fair map, and it's made that way.. So live by it. We are the few. But we will rank up eventually.
If you are not here you cannot order the past raid.. You missed out. That's your fault. There is PVE.

You cannot expect changes because of this post. You have to confront the current leader and truce with them. The buckers, run the moors their own way, it's hard to convince them with their ego. They won't equate.

Second, I won't lend my Reaver until it is also fair on the solo side... but is it even safe to create our own game style.

Which is why I don't care anymore,

Because, when I decided to be in a different group. Which involved two groups and equated freeps. We first pushed and expected the second group to fight as well.... but the second group just stood there confused.. and you know their words... "giving out free points, you nubs"...

So, that's why for the month of September I kept my reaver at bed. And helped when I wanted.

We can't understand egotistic men.

This is not a fair map, and it's made that way.. So live by it. We are the few. But we will rank up eventually.
If you are not here you cannot order the past raid.. You missed out. That's your fault. There is PVE.

WOW

Let me think oh yes! I remember one general said when he confronted the enemy in WW1, Well #### boys the enemy doesn't have any tanks its not fair lets go home. Lets not put the blame on any side here or any player put it were it belongs TURBINE!! &WB. They have created this ####ty system we call pvp. I have played in many online pvp systems and this one has got to be by far the worst balanced and thought of one yet. On the other notes I have never heard a freep to this day say hey lets make it a grams camp, you want to know were freeps go, its were the points are people that's were they go and if you are all up at grams that's were we are going to be! you have one of the most strategic weapons in the moors its called a map use it. Its called war all is fair in war if you get rolled sit back and think about how not to be rolled. The whole idea of pvp is to crush the enemy and not die don't complain when creeps or freeps find a way to do it that everyone calls unfair its how the game is set up deal with what you got I do and if I don't want to I leave or take a break or even quit not get on forums and say oOOH freeps are over powered and oOOh creeps are zerging big deal you have a ##### when you start bleeding behind your keyboard. I for one and I would hope the rest of you also will not make special considerations in a pvp system too suit the enemy that's absurd just come out and fight that's what its about getting points is what turbine has made it about there is no real reward in the pvp system we have rank still doesn't mean anything other than the pat on the back that comes from your in game friends. They will most likely make this system so unbearable that people will just quit anyways some already have guess what then they wont have to deal with it which is exactly what they want. It is pathetic to me to hear a raid leader say um no were not going to do that it will make them disband or log or we should let them win a fight so they'll keep coming back omg people do you come out to fight or just sit at grams or in a keep, whats the point. there is no strategy its just get a grp focus this focus that oh they took a OP oh they got a delving bonus oh there getting the relics big Fng deal just meet in the field and fight its really simple. The powers that be have turned 9our pvp into a pve setting and we take to it like lemmings.

On the other notes I have never heard a freep to this day say hey lets make it a grams camp, you want to know were freeps go, its were the points are people that's were they go and if you are all up at grams that's were we are going to be!

creeps do that. Just like Thursday night when the the 12 of them with the ON buff were being camped by 25+ freeps.

Originally Posted by Skoshia

you have one of the most strategic weapons in the moors its called a map use it.

Creeps have maps yes, but I'm not sure how exactly that helps 12 creeps fight double or triple their numbers. I'm also not a raid leader.

Originally Posted by Skoshia

I for one and I would hope the rest of you also will not make special considerations in a pvp system too suit the enemy that's absurd just come out and fight that's what its about getting points

For some people, its about the fight. So if you are telling me that getting points is all that matters, that the people that you play with and against are nothing more than a number, I think that's kinda sad.

Originally Posted by Skoshia

It is pathetic to me to hear a raid leader say um no were not going to do that it will make them disband or log or we should let them win a fight so they'll keep coming back

Raid leaders do, do that. Its not pathetic. I've seen some of the greatest leaders we have had on vilya do just this. They realized, and I hope others do as well, that camping with overwhelming numbers kills the action in the moors. No action means no fun and no points.

Originally Posted by Skoshia

there is no strategy its just get a grp focus this focus that. Oh they took a OP, Oh they got a delving bonus, Oh they're getting the relics. Big Fng deal just meet in the field and fight its really simple.

Its not that simple. Creeps are generally outnumbered. So when you have 12 creeps with the ON buff on an entirely blue map, expecting them to sit at GTA and take what comes ... is well asking a lot of anyone. On the flip side, I wouldn't ask freeps in the same situation to do that either.

I don't think anyone is exactly happy with the way the system works but it's the system we have. Blaming TB or WB is not the answer. Its an easy excuse to do nothing. What I'm saying is ... We can't change the system, but we can change what we do in it. Doing the easy thing, in any situation, doesn't always make it the right thing.

Creeps have maps yes, but I'm not sure how exactly that helps 12 creeps fight double or triple their numbers. I'm also not a raid leader

I doubt all those freeps were in the same raid. Because freeps don't have maps their travel routes are easy to predict. It works well to start "ganking" 1-2 freeps on their way to where the action is. Prevent these freeps from getting there and their group will come help them. This can turn into some good fights assuming the creeps stick around instead of looking for ez-mode ganking.

You can also do fake pulls on keeps. Freeps don't have maps so it takes them awhile to get somewhere. If they are at grams it takes a long time to get to TR. Do a drop-pull at TR and keep 1 scout near grams where the freeps are. When the scout sees the freeps move they can say how many and which direction. Creeps can either continue taking the keep, drop combat and map away to safety, or drop combat and run/map somewhere to flank the creeps on-route to defend TR. Catch them off-guard and you could very-well beat a greater number of freeps.

If freeps have double or triple their numbers try n split them up. Just because there is a "raid" of freeps by numbers, doesn't mean they're actually in a raid. Another thing that is helpful for both sides is to stop calling out locations when not necessary. I remember being on freep-side with lockdown/fbf players and snowlock had his group of Iron Rangers out. Our goal was to fight the creeps without IR there and their goal was to fight the creeps without us there. Creeps had good fights even though freeps had "double or triple their numbers." They just didn't fight ALL the freeps at the same time. That is key.

In the real world I worry about punctuation, this is not the real world nor am I being graded and yes it really is that simple war is pretty simple kill the other opposing force before it kills you exploit every advantage its not how you play the game its win or lose, that's war pvp is war, read the art of war it will help you.

In the real world I worry about punctuation, this is not the real world nor am I being graded and yes it really is that simple war is pretty simple kill the other opposing force before it kills you exploit every advantage its not how you play the game its win or lose, that's war pvp is war, read the art of war it will help you.

I'm sad you feel that way. I'd rather have a great fight and loose than sit around and be worried about not dying and how many points I'm getting. That doesn't seem to be the mentality of some, especially of new folks and I really REALLY hope that changes because that is what is one of the things ruining the moors.
Exploiting is a no no and frowned upon by most.
I don't think reading the art of war is going to help me with anything, unless it does laundry and balances the check book.

Im not sure you understand anything ive said, when did I say I sit around and when did I say all I care about is points, and when did I say I exploit. When you exploit every advantage it means you use everything you have as abilities as well as the people you group with to exploit the enemies weaknesses that's what fighting is all about were not out here to make nice and play patty cake! And ive led a few raids myself anc chased creeps all around the map so im not sure what you mean by sitting around. I don't worry about dying I die all the time a lot. Im not even sure that we are on the same server now because I think your view of me is skewed a bit. In a fight I try to win isn't that what were supposed to do or are we all supposed to go home with blue ribbons is this the middle earth kindergarten soc league there is no losers. I don't get it. Maybe I missed the middle earth UN meeting or something that we now have rules to our warring, ok ill stop the nukes and chemical warfare thingy ive been doin.

In the real world I worry about punctuation, this is not the real world nor am I being graded and yes it really is that simple war is pretty simple kill the other opposing force before it kills you exploit every advantage its not how you play the game its win or lose, that's war pvp is war, read the art of war it will help you.

In the real world people judge you on whether or not you can write legible sentences. I mean, if you want people to read your stuff why make it so hard to do so? I can hardly keep straight what you're saying half the time is all man.

I think you should do whatever it takes to have challenging fights in the moors. For a champion that means limiting myself sometimes in 1v1s, and for freep groups it often means limiting themselves in numbers or heals if the players are all solid. For grams camps it means going suicidal to try to kill a greenie knowing full well you're probably going to die (for me anyway), or 1v1'ing off the beaten path.