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Re: could this work?

Well, that depends on what we're talking about. Do you mean a strong style match, primarily based more on strikes, mat game, and submissions than normal wrestling moves? Yeah, that could be awesome! But if we're talking like...in a cage/with rounds and only won by submission or KO....eh, I don't think it could be pulled off in pro wrestling quite right.

Re: could this work?

No it wouldn't, if they go by MMA rules they couldn't do it because they would be in different weight classes. I would love to see Brock have a MMA style fight with a WWE superstar how is in same weight class like a John Cena.

Re: could this work?

UFC fighters go to camp, cut weight, and are in a condition CM Punk would need until May to get ready for. Regardless of him rolling around with Eve Torres new family... He and Brock would need a catchweight......... Or- The WWE version. The Lion's Den match they had with Ken Shamrock. TNA had a couple of these matches with Angle vs Joe and AJ Styles vs Frank Trigg. They were both a disaster.

Most people showing how green they are as a wrestling fan or in a metal passe negated those details. But, they also didn't bring up CM Punk was in ROH with the PURE Title. Which is an adapted set of rules that are closer to MMA. Brock won 3 UFC belts off people. He took away a belt from Couture, Mir, and Carwin. Now, because of trademarks and copyrights, the WWE isn't foolish enough to have him bring one out. But, why would he?

Did anyone see what Brock did to Kendrick, London, Shawn Michaels, Matt Hardy, RVD, Spike Dudley, Jeff Hardy, Hurricane, Rey Mysterio, Benoit... He destroyed Eddie Guerrero until Goldberg decided to interfere. The guy is a man among men. And cruiserweights vs heavyweights are small children. Nash and Mysterio was fun back in the day for a goof on TV. But, when there is money on the line, and they pay Brock a lot, why would he sell or lay down for chump change like CM Punk?

Punk and his group lost a handicap match to the Big Show, Brock ran that giant over every time.
Punk and his group were taken out by Orton 5 on 1... Brock ran Randy Orton over convincingly.
The Rock defeated Punk for the belt after 3 men helped him... Brock took The Rock's title and sent him packing.
CM Punk loses to The Undertaker at Hell in a Cell. Brock decimated Big Evil and left him in a pool of his own blood.
CM Punk's biggest rivals were Chavo, John Morrison, Jeff Hardy, Big Show, Rey Mysterio, John Cena, and Triple H. They were all turned into dust at the hands of "Beast" Lesnar.

If anyone is willing to pay to watch that, it won't surprise me. However, considering them in a video highlight reel or statistically... Its a landslide. #NotNakamura

Re: could this work?

Punk is a good striker and has speed on his side, but he is not in the MMA league. If Brock were to really catch him he would be done for.

Credit to Bender for the awesome sig and av.

Spoiler

Originally Posted by Spike

Kara is a intelligent and intense poster, Her fierce nature is enduring as she seems to take no crap from anyone about anything. Her posts are thought out and backed with reason. Admirable qualities on a male dominant forum... Especially on a Wrestling forum.

Re: could this work?

Originally Posted by ShiningWizard

UFC fighters go to camp, cut weight, and are in a condition CM Punk would need until May to get ready for. Regardless of him rolling around with Eve Torres new family... He and Brock would need a catchweight......... Or- The WWE version. The Lion's Den match they had with Ken Shamrock. TNA had a couple of these matches with Angle vs Joe and AJ Styles vs Frank Trigg. They were both a disaster.

Most people showing how green they are as a wrestling fan or in a metal passe negated those details. But, they also didn't bring up CM Punk was in ROH with the PURE Title. Which is an adapted set of rules that are closer to MMA. Brock won 3 UFC belts off people. He took away a belt from Couture, Mir, and Carwin. Now, because of trademarks and copyrights, the WWE isn't foolish enough to have him bring one out. But, why would he?

Did anyone see what Brock did to Kendrick, London, Shawn Michaels, Matt Hardy, RVD, Spike Dudley, Jeff Hardy, Hurricane, Rey Mysterio, Benoit... He destroyed Eddie Guerrero until Goldberg decided to interfere. The guy is a man among men. And cruiserweights vs heavyweights are small children. Nash and Mysterio was fun back in the day for a goof on TV. But, when there is money on the line, and they pay Brock a lot, why would he sell or lay down for chump change like CM Punk?

Punk and his group lost a handicap match to the Big Show, Brock ran that giant over every time.
Punk and his group were taken out by Orton 5 on 1... Brock ran Randy Orton over convincingly.
The Rock defeated Punk for the belt after 3 men helped him... Brock took The Rock's title and sent him packing.
CM Punk loses to The Undertaker at Hell in a Cell. Brock decimated Big Evil and left him in a pool of his own blood.
CM Punk's biggest rivals were Chavo, John Morrison, Jeff Hardy, Big Show, Rey Mysterio, John Cena, and Triple H. They were all turned into dust at the hands of "Beast" Lesnar.

If anyone is willing to pay to watch that, it won't surprise me. However, considering them in a video highlight reel or statistically... Its a landslide. #NotNakamura

The first part is a solid argument. Worked MMA just doesn't work.

But then you got into kayfabe wrestling matches and I'm not sure what your point is. An MMA match isn't a great idea, but I think a wrestling match would be fantastic. You seem to be getting at this idea that Brock shouldn't sell for Punk in a wrestling match even. If we're talking about guys that could believably take Brock in a real fight, there are none. Brock's a legitimate badass. But it gets to the same point that Big Show shouldn't lose to anyone if it's a real fight. It's not real. It's pro wrestling. There's a suspension of disbelief involved.

"I like cake."

Originally Posted by MrAndersons Mic

Im posting my thoughts not for them to be debated or argued against. I would like for folks to understand and agree with my point of view while throwing dookie at the McMahons and laughing at it.

Re: could this work?

Brock sold for some of the people I listed. However, the end result remains the same.

I don't think there is anything to gain from the match, save a DVD chapter on someone's collection. Brock beat the holy hell out of Cena and Triple H. Can he sell for Punk, well it'd be more convincing if Shield helped or he was attacked and came in less than 100%. In the end no one talks about Brock vs Benoit or Rey Mysterio much that I see. Though, he and Benoit had a war. There is a difference in the kind of man whose guys are and the CM Punk character coming off a DVD of Vegan shakes and losing all his muscle mass from his ECW Title days. I don't see it. The Rock held up his arm and talked about time standing still for Punk. His bicep was as big as both of those on Brooks. Can Punk kick and stick and move and maybe weaken Lesnar... sure.

But we have never seen Punk take some big ass whipping to no end. So, that mystique of can he rope-a-dope Lesnar would be an evolution to his character... He can be pulverized and make a comeback. Not a successful one without luck or a perfect storm. But, a fan can dream about the dimensions it would bring to CM Punk's name if he stopped verbally thrashing everything in sight and took a couple fat lips for being a rowdy *sshole. In the end if you could take a beating it adds an endless depth to what fans can put behind you late in the fights. This is why Cena and Triple H's characters aren't seen in such a terrible fashion. Yeah, the have the machine, the same writing team, agents, and company letters as anyone else behind them. But, this staying healthy stuff is far too overrated. Give them some reckless Foley moments and live forever. The Rock was around for a handful of years, Austin too... These guys we compare Triple H and CM Punk too. They took beatings beyond belief from the Brothers of Destruction, Big Show, DX, and men with an intimate knowledge of punishing maneuvers. Today's sissy TV matches wouldn't come off with the guys being less of a tough guy, if they'd only turn up the volume once a month so the man who gets his hand raised had to put them through hell to come out on top. That's something I haven't heard people point out as to why this generation is constantly second-guessed against the Attitude Era.

Re: could this work?

Each piece of that is a piece of why it matters. Bill Maher has an bit during his "Be More Cynical" special where he talks about the ambitious minds of people wanting to have drawn out mundane lives. You can live your 85 years. "But, give me 65 Sammie Davis [Jr] years."

How long is Goldberg's streak? ECW lasted less than 7 years... This is Punk's 7th. WCW lasted 10. John Cena is now beyond that. The Ultimate Warrior told the students of the University of Connecticut... "Will you do in your life what will live forever." Some guys from this era will. But, they didn't earn those by facing any of the current crop of people that are on the circuit.

Goldberg and Brock never did anything very dangerous. The nWo didn't hurt anyone. Hogan destroying people's bodies? I said take a beating. Bret Hart gave Shawn Michaels a thorough working over at Wrestlemania 12. He beat Austin into unconsciousness at Wrestlemania 13... and so forth. It's a work boys and girls. Foley and Orton didn't risk their lives to have a beautiful hardcore fight at Backlash 2004. How about Foley and Edge at Wrestlemania 22? Think before you assume it has some sadist mentality or a lack of compassion for the performers. UFC guys aren't all dying so early are they... Hm, and its been well proven the International guys use substances for enhancement. Their routine of beatings has a lifespan like ANY pro sport. Oh, he can't still perform at 45. How many guys are skating in the NHL or playing any significant number of downs in the NFL. Baseball is suited somewhat to older people. But, look at the combat/physical sports. Be realistic. The fantasy of wrestling can extend to 30+ year runs for everyone. LOL

I didn't include overexposure and the fact that they only had a second show on the tail end of their main run. This new breed has how many hours of TV a week. Arda Ocal says "watching wrestling is a full-time job. You are moonlight." - January 29, 2013.

Like I ask of anyone bragging on the current product. Give me 10 great moments since Cena won his first world belt. I will name off 10 of any given Attitude Era year. TNA's show is named iMPACT and they have drawn the rating of Tough Enough or HeAT since they drove up to dozens of people's home and dumped a truck of money on them. It's the WCW Worldwide arena. Nash is a guy who said people asked where he was since 2003. He told them on TNA, and they asked what is that. Look at the Youtube clip of Flair "What's TNA." I am talking about the world superpower of wrestling having epic battles. The Rock does it between cuts and they last forever. Wrestlers say they have one take to get it right. This used to be true but for several years now... I've been waiting.

Re: could this work?

Originally Posted by ShiningWizard

Each piece of that is a piece of why it matters. Bill Maher has an bit during his "Be More Cynical" special where he talks about the ambitious minds of people wanting to have drawn out mundane lives. You can live your 85 years. "But, give me 65 Sammie Davis [Jr] years."

How long is Goldberg's streak? ECW lasted less than 7 years... This is Punk's 7th. WCW lasted 10. John Cena is now beyond that. The Ultimate Warrior told the students of the University of Connecticut... "Will you do in your life what will live forever." Some guys from this era will. But, they didn't earn those by facing any of the current crop of people that are on the circuit.

Goldberg and Brock never did anything very dangerous. The nWo didn't hurt anyone. Hogan destroying people's bodies? I said take a beating. Bret Hart gave Shawn Michaels a thorough working over at Wrestlemania 12. He beat Austin into unconsciousness at Wrestlemania 13... and so forth. It's a work boys and girls. Foley and Orton didn't risk their lives to have a beautiful hardcore fight at Backlash 2004. How about Foley and Edge at Wrestlemania 22? Think before you assume it has some sadist mentality or a lack of compassion for the performers. UFC guys aren't all dying so early are they... Hm, and its been well proven the International guys use substances for enhancement. Their routine of beatings has a lifespan like ANY pro sport. Oh, he can't still perform at 45. How many guys are skating in the NHL or playing any significant number of downs in the NFL. Baseball is suited somewhat to older people. But, look at the combat/physical sports. Be realistic. The fantasy of wrestling can extend to 30+ year runs for everyone. LOL

I didn't include overexposure and the fact that they only had a second show on the tail end of their main run. This new breed has how many hours of TV a week. Arda Ocal says "watching wrestling is a full-time job. You are moonlight." - January 29, 2013.

Like I ask of anyone bragging on the current product. Give me 10 great moments since Cena won his first world belt. I will name off 10 of any given Attitude Era year. TNA's show is named iMPACT and they have drawn the rating of Tough Enough or HeAT since they drove up to dozens of people's home and dumped a truck of money on them. It's the WCW Worldwide arena. Nash is a guy who said people asked where he was since 2003. He told them on TNA, and they asked what is that. Look at the Youtube clip of Flair "What's TNA." I am talking about the world superpower of wrestling having epic battles. The Rock does it between cuts and they last forever. Wrestlers say they have one take to get it right. This used to be true but for several years now... I've been waiting.

But great to who? I don't think the Outlaws pushing a dumpster off the stage was necessarily a great moment in wrestling history, but plenty do. Likewise, there's plenty of moments that I would consider great that I don't think people would have the same reverence for.

I think the Cena/Punk matches have been absolute classics, and I'd put them up against any series. I'd certainly put them up against Shawn and Bret at Wrestlemania in terms of physicality. Shawn vs Bret was an endurance test, not the beatdown that you claim it to be.

I love Foley/Orton and Foley/Edge, and they're great spectacles, but I can't blame people for not wanting to fly through flaming tables and barbed wire boards and thumbtacks. That's Foley's thing, and it worked for him, but not everything has to be a hardcore bloodbath to be "epic." I don't think anyone's claiming that lives are at risk, but let's remember that Mick Foley retired at age 35 after he did what he did full time. Sure, he did some part-time stuff here and there afterwards, but that hard-hitting crazy style is absolutely a career-shortener.

I don't know what TNA has to do with this argument. TNA is a second-tier promotion. I don't mean that to knock TNA, but they are. They're not competition. They're not WWE.

You're speaking in a lot of rhetoric (and it's not all "quality type" as you put it), but epic moments are in the eye of the beholder.

"I like cake."

Originally Posted by MrAndersons Mic

Im posting my thoughts not for them to be debated or argued against. I would like for folks to understand and agree with my point of view while throwing dookie at the McMahons and laughing at it.

Re: could this work?

Spoiler

Promo videos of yesteryear: Guys hitting their finishing moves to a mainstream song and a hot audience in nearly every town. Showdowns where somebody is left laying one on one. This is what The Rock meant when he said CM Punk knocked him out cold. How often does this happen now at all, especially enough to hype stuff several times a year with specific people.

Promo videos of today: John Cena lifting weights in his gym with 2 members of the Shield, Consequences Creed, Big E Langston... Not the Wrestlemania promo video that stands the test of time when these guys show up in feuds with their exclusive gym friend. Way to kayfabe it up. What would the training video of Edge, CM Punk, The Shield, Ryback, anyone except The Rock and Brock Lesnar look like. Everyone thinks they took a bunch of FCW guys and put them through the TV two-step; stand here, sell this direction, read this script.

Shawn and Bret training, wrestling a good pace for the better part of an hour, doing physically demanding moves is far different than Cena and Punk laying around grabbing their knees and wasting the PPV clock away. Cena vs HBK, much better at Mania and the hour long Raw match. HBK can sell like a veteran. Punk's DVD talks about him being in wrestling since the late 90's. I can list bunches of guys who came in the same time or later and they sell and have a character that's not rubbery. Cena vs Punk is weaker than his matches with Joe and the connotative fanfare anyone talks about for that match is simply the in-crowd vs the underground.

The guys of the modern era with the lightest work schedule, most stringent health monitoring, and schedules put together by their bosses who happen to also have their own coach buses. Put Punk/Cena up against any series LOL. They have had a handful of matches and the majority have no winner. Consider that against: Bret/Owen, Undertaker/Mankind, Taz/Sabu, KENTA/Misawa, Vader/Misawa, Kobashi/Akiyama, Danielson/Joe... men who had a series of different levels of matches with an evolution of the series. The last 2 Punk and Cena has one-PPV draw the last one in how many years? Another is brought 3 additional men into a 3 man match. How weak can we make him this week, Johny? Over time Punk's character went from Competition is my addiction to wearing 80's wrestler copycat gear/stealing Danielson's moniker/more moves from worldwide main eventers/Rock's catchphrase. If these guys were musicians this idiot would be broke. They are going backwards. But, then again he started out in the backyard. And I still laugh at the insider video of Ultimo Dragon training the ROH students less than 10 years ago, where CM Punk can't even do a forward roll.

TL;DR - UPW vs OVW guys laying around with their strike fests are not hard working individuals. Epic moments don't feel like they go on forever to be leveled off with declining persona. Feuds build over time. Today's world has random stipulation matches. Cages that were used to keep people in because they ran away in the feud. Not because it is a PPV theme. I talk about the big picture then people ask why I am using things that are correlative. Well, I am not giving out Powerpoint files to walk you through anything. I didn't grow up in this No Child Left Behind era. The last time you heard about a backstage fight was? A WWE wrestler in a fight was? Hazing... anything? Why do you think Bruno is back. Because they made it soft enough for the retirees to enjoy. They could put the show on the CBS Network with the other PG dramas and everything would be fine. Brock vs Punk. Haha. Sub out any of the adjectives: http://www.bing.com/Dictionary/searc...ym&FORM=DTPDIA But, I am a little curious about some of the more colorful definitions and just what items Cryme Tyme didn't sell to the paying audience being used on Punk.

Re: could this work?

Re: could this work?

I can't see the fans buying it because realistically Punk would be destroyed by Lesnar. If WWE were to head in that direction and run an MMA style worked match and storyline then surely it would be Brock vs. Undertaker. Undertaker has said many, many times that if UFC was as big now as it was when he started wrestling he would have gone into MMA no questions asked. Undertaker already has some MMA moves in his arsenal and could be a believeable threat to Lesnar plus they have so much history together from Brock's initial run in the company.