After the gruesome murders of children and teachers by Adam Lanza in Newtown, Connecticut, apparently mostly performed with a Bushmaster AR-15 (“the civilian version of the military’s M-16 and M-4,” says the New York Times, “a logical choice for anyone whose goal is to kill a lot of people in a short time because of their ability to rapidly fire multiple high-velocity rounds”), rightbloggers were clear and united in their response: There are a lot of things that may have been the root cause of this tragedy — a lack of God, mental illness, public schools, liberals — but one thing that definitely had nothing at all to do with it was guns.

All the raving wingnuts are represented: Instapundit, Jeff Goldstein, Ace of Spades, National Review, neo-Confederate Robert Stacy McCain, and the Internet’s Dumbest Man, Jim Hoft. The leading lights of the right.

And speaking of Glenn “Instapundit” Reynolds, here he is retweeting a deranged, paranoid video from conspiracy lunatic Alex Jones:

Alex Jones says that every massacre and probably ends up increasing gun ownership based on it yet Americans own a disproportionally high amount of the total guns in the world. Yeah Alex they're really coming for the guns. It would be nice if they came for you to tell you how ridiculous you are.

There are a lot of things that may have been the root cause of this tragedy — a lack of God, mental illness, public schools, liberals — but one thing that definitely had nothing at all to do with it was guns.

Because once you remove the guns from the equation then... you don't have a classroom full of dead kids.

Yeah this is what I don't get. I've seen everything from Video games, lack of God in public schools, abortion pills, Obama's social security policies, etc blamed for this but not the fact that Lanza's mother had quite the arsenal even though she knew her son had issues. But these are the people who repeatedly show that they care more about an inanimate object than actual people.

Yeah this is what I don't get. I've seen everything from Video games, lack of God in public schools, abortion pills, Obama's social security policies, etc blamed for this but not the fact that Lanza's mother had quite the arsenal even though she knew her son had issues. But these are the people who repeatedly show that they care more about an inanimate object than actual people.

Yeah this is what I don't get. I've seen everything from Video games, lack of God in public schools, abortion pills, Obama's social security policies, etc blamed for this but not the fact that Lanza's mother had quite the arsenal even though she knew her son had issues.

A Tennessee pastor on Sunday told his congregation that the number of mass shooting were escalating because of schools were government “mind-control centers” that taught “junk about evolution” and “how to be a homo.”

Old Paths Baptist Church Pastor Sam Morris began speaking about last week’s school massacre in Newtown, Connecticut by warning that “this sermon will not be pleasant.”

“We get all up in arms about 20 children being shot in a day care but we don’t give one good-glory rip about the 4,000 that were removed violently from the wombs of their mothers [in abortion procedures] the same day,” he explained. “I believe they use children and Christmas and all that to pull on our heart strings about gun control. That’s what it’s all about.”

Morris asserted that equal rights was a “sham” because it’s “equal immorality” and that authorities should take the body of the suspected shooter, 20-year-old Adam Lanza, “and string him up in public and set his body on fire and leave it out there to let the birds pick his bones.”

“We’re going to see more of this,” he continued. “Because notice, the first thing in America we start yelling about is gun control is gun control. Have you noticed that? Gun control. No one’s even thought about the fact that these shootings only happened at places where guns are banned. Have you noticed that? They have never had a mass shooting at a gun show, where you can find over a thousand loaded guns at one time.”

Yeah, the shooting deaths at gun shows are usually accidental. Those are fine.

Ok, one thing I'm going to quibble with a bit. It's been noted that she was one of those "doomsday preppers" or "survivalists" so I don't think she was exactly firing on all cylinders. Whether she thought her son was a loony or not shouldn't matter, because IMHO she was seemingly stuck on stupid. She had an unsecured stash of high-grade militaristic hardware in her home. I couldn't give a flying fuck if her kid was graduating MIT Magna-Cum Laude, it should have been locked up in a safe.

If she hadn't been a victim, I would be calling for her to spend the rest of her existence in prison because not securing them is the same as allowing those weapons to be used for nefarious purposes is criminally negligent and should be prosecutable.

Teachers shouldn't be allowed to negotiate for their pay, protect their fellow teachers from wrongful termination, or expect their pension and health benefits to be any good. But they should be required to undergo training and arm themselves to guard the school, with no increase in pay or benefits.

Gohmert’s statement was declarative and sweeping: “The facts are every time guns have been allowed, concealed-carry has been allowed, the crime rate has gone down.”

The actual evidence is much murkier — and in dispute. Certainly, it appears such laws have not increased the crime rate, as opponents had feared, but it is equally a stretch to say such laws are a slam-dunk reason for why crimes have decreased. Even those sympathetic to Lott’s research suggest that any decline in the crime rate from right-to-carry laws is more sporadic — as opposed to Gohmert’s claim that crime rate always goes down.

Moreover, even if one could prove a definitive link, other factors certainly play a role in reducing crime and should be acknowledged.

Members of the hacker collective “Anonymous” published a trove of information over the weekend purporting to be the individual names, email addresses, phone numbers and home addresses of every adult member of the infamous Westboro Baptist Church after the group announced plans to picket Sandy Hook Elementary in Newtown, CT.

“Your impact and cause is hazardous to the lives of millions and you fail to see the wrong in promoting the deaths of innocent people,” an “Anonymous” video featuring a computerized voice says over ominous music. “You are self-appointed servants of God who rewrite the words of his sacred scripture to adhere to your prejudice. Your hatred supersedes your faith, and you use faith to promote your hatred.”

The voice goes on to explain that members of the collective have decided “to execute an agenda of action which will progressively dismantle” the church. It doesn’t say how, but warns that “attrition is our weapon,” and that the campaign may be long.

I decided to turn on my tv for the first time in a couple years. CNN keeps bring on some guy claiming that more guns reduce crime. The same guy was on Pierre Morgan, Wolf Blitzer and the morning show. I guess it's nice they all debunk his stupid theory but they all pretend to be shocked and angry at him like they didn't know what he was going to say.

American Family Association president Tim Wildmon offered up his thoughts on last week's tragic school shooting in Connecticut by saying that Satan literally took possession of shooter Adam Lanza and carried out the attack

Meh. 1) The Phelps clan thrives on that kind of publicity. 2) this is the kind of thing that can get people killed or hurt. There's no guarantee that the info is accurate. Old Addresses, similar names, maybe people who have left the church, etc.. It's dangerous and reckless.

Swanson: Dave, you know, he says, ‘I have many, many gay friends.’ ‘Many, many gay friends.’

Buehner: Which is weird, because I have never said that.

Swanson: I have never said that either, I don’t say, ‘I have many, many gay friends.’ It’s almost like saying, ‘I have many, many gay fornicators;’ ‘I have many, many gay liar friends;’ it’s just craziness. I just interviewed this guy who goes into maximum security prisons and he interviews serial killers and I appreciate this guy, he’s actually had an opportunity to talk to a number of then and he says some twenty-five percent of them actually do repent he thinks, and it’s wonderful to see their lives turn around. So I mean, you know, what does this guy say: ‘I have many, many serial killer friends.’ I don’t think he says that, he doesn’t say that. I think he says, ‘it’s a shameful thing to be a serial killer.’ You wouldn’t want to wear that on a t-shirt, you wouldn’t want to say ‘I have many, many friends who kill people.’

Buehner: ‘I have many, many cannibal friends.’ ‘I have many, many molester friends.’ Just pick the abomination.

Obviously, Lanza was also exposed to the entire secular-humanist curriculum of our atheist public schools: evolution, values clarification, sex education, and other programs that served to wrest children away from traditional Biblical religion. [...]

I think this is what those 31 pro-gun RW members of Congress were waiting for--these RW bloggers to provide cover for them when they rear their ugly heads to make excuses for opposing a ban on assault weapons. I can imagine LaPierre, Priebus, and others on the right making frantic calls to these bloggers this weekend and begging them to create a distraction for them so they won't have to address the tragedy that took place at Sandy Hook Elementary on Friday.

I've read that the problem is a lack of "moral certitude" that is causing this epidemic of violent crime crime in this country.

The logic is stunning:

(1) Does that mean we'd solve the problem if we had the "moral certitude" of slave-owning founding fathers, Crusaders, or Jihadis? (If only we had the "moral certitude" that lead to public duels, lynchings, human beings enslaved, women systematically raped by their "owners," tarring and feathering, labor riots, etc.)

(2) Why do people choose to ignore historical rates of violent crime to conclude that we have been experiencing an epidemic of violent crime?

--snip--

The best available indicator of long-term trends in violence is the murder rate. An American's chance of being murdered was relatively low in the 1950s and early 1960s. It doubled between 1964 and 1974, remained high from 1974 to 1980, declined significantly between 1980 and 1985, and edged back up in the late 1980s. In 1989 the murder rate was higher than it had been from 1983 to 1988, lower than it had been from 1972 to 1982, and higher than it had been from 1950 to 1972. Victimization surveys -- that is, surveys asking people whether they have been the victims of crimes -- suggest that non-lethal violence has followed the same trajectory. Furthermore, black-white differences in the incidence of violence have been diminishing, not increasing.

--snip--

Here is a Violent Death Project chart showing the annual death rate from homicide and war through the course of American history.

Yet the .223 is the standard of the US military. Teh stoopid, it hurtz.

.223's a varmint round, it's why the Army was against adopting the AR-15 in the first place. What ultimately sold it was that you can carry more ammo for the same weight and it's easier to control on automatic fire than 7.62mm is.

.223's a varmint round, it's why the Army was against adopting the AR-15 in the first place. What ultimately sold it was that you can carry more ammo for the same weight and it's easier to control on automatic fire than 7.62mm is.

That and a wounded person can be a bigger drain on a unit that a dead one.

.223's a varmint round, it's why the Army was against adopting the AR-15 in the first place. What ultimately sold it was that you can carry more ammo for the same weight and it's easier to control on automatic fire than 7.62mm is.

Yes. I know the history. I own a .223/5.56 rifle and I can verify it's more than a "varmint round".

Another inevitability in the wake of a gun-related tragedy is the expression of the idea that we should focus our prevention efforts not on guns, but on mental illness. Now, I have no problem with addressing the issue of mental illness, although I don't see why we can't do both. However, my experience as a teacher suggests at least a small reason why we have so much difficulty addressing mental illness in young people, thus allowing it to fester unchecked into adulthood.

This week, in an interview with conservative radio host Janet Mefferd, he tried to suggest that gay identities don’t even exist, that they’re just a “political statement” advanced by heterosexuals trying to normalize same-sex behavior:

STANTON: First of all, we need to understand that “gay” and “lesbian” really are — to use the language of feminist studies people — a cultural construct… “Gay” and “lesbian” are very new kinds of things. Yes, there’s always been homosexuality in human experience, but it was typically something that heterosexuals… did to another person.

“Gay” and “lesbian” are really sort of sociological or political statements or identifications… It’s the signing on to a political sexual sort of agenda… There are lots of people who have homosexual or same-sex orientations that just don’t identify themselves as “gay” or “lesbian” because again, “gay” or “lesbian” is a social political sort of identity…

Being “gay” or being “lesbian” is a thing that’s only been present in maybe the past 50 years or so.

Yet the .223 is the standard of the US military. Teh stoopid, it hurtz.

Actually, a lot of what is required for hunting (for instance deer hunting in PA) would be a violation of the Geneva Conventions if fired by the military at people. Hollow points, soft-nose slugs, etc. - stuff designed for maximum carnage when it hits flesh.

Pretty logical and well written piece on next steps by David Gergen. I must confess, when it comes to the talking heads on the various networks more often than not I find him to be the most reasonable. Not always, but often.

Actually, a lot of what is required for hunting (for instance deer hunting in PA) would be a violation of the Geneva Conventions if fired by the military at people. Hollow points, soft-nose slugs, etc. - stuff designed for maximum carnage when it hits flesh.

I've hunted whitetail in MI, TX, and FL and never heard of such requirements. Albeit, the deer in Florida are large dogs compared those that roam in PA.

Lots of people have ideas, the problem is actually getting something implemented to try. E.g., Bob Wright proposes:

Imagine the following world, which it's within our power to create: It's illegal to sell or possess a firearm--rifle or pistol--that can hold more than six bullets. And it's illegal to sell or possess a firearm with a detachable magazine. In other words, once a shooter exhausted the six rounds, he couldn't just snap in another six-round magazine; he'd have to put six more bullets in the gun one by one.

[facepalm, literally] Sorry, but I just don't have the words for describing how rotten and how wrong that statement is.

I'd also note that homosexuality has absolutely nothing to do with what happened in Newtown. There is no evidence the shooter had any gay inclinations or hatred of gays. So those trying to relate this act of evil with gayness are filthy liars.

"Being a evangelical Christian is just an excuse to be a bigoted asshole." See I can play that game too Focus on the Family.

They are right in that society has only progressed far enough to let these people openly refer to themselves as gay in the past 50 years, but these guys are generally not pleased with any of the progress that society has made in the past century...

[facepalm, literally] Sorry, but I just don't have the words for describing how rotten and how wrong that statement is.

I'd also note that homosexuality has absolutely nothing to do with what happened in Newtown. There is no evidence the shooter had any gay inclinations or hatred of gays. So those trying to relate this act of evil with gayness are filthy liars.

Has nothing to do with Lanza's orientation methinks. It's another one of those "God punished the children because we don't burn the gays alive" types of bullshit.

[facepalm, literally] Sorry, but I just don't have the words for describing how rotten and how wrong that statement is.

I'd also note that homosexuality has absolutely nothing to do with what happened in Newtown. There is no evidence the shooter had any gay inclinations or hatred of gays. So those trying to relate this act of evil with gayness are filthy liars.

And even if he was gay, it means nothing. What I always want to ask people like this is if they think it's acceptable to blame heterosexuality and Christianity if said person is a straight Christian? I'd probably get a rightful crazy look so why I want to honestly know from them is why on earth they think it's acceptable to blame a lack of religious belief or homosexuality. Idiots like Fischer point out that there were Gay and Nazis drawn to the Occult which is technically true but there were a lot more Nazis who were straight and believed that they were doing the work of Christ. We need to stop blaming groups.

I'll venture to guess that the families of the 26 dead wish the shooter was using an actual "varmint round".

On the contrary, I posit that this sort of event would be a lot less likely if the only rifles available were firing larger and heavier cartridges that result in longer and heavier weapons that are massively ill-suited to urban combat and firing at high rates of fire in close quarters.

This is, after all, why a rifle from WW1 or WW2 is quite appropriate to modern hunting but not to modern warfare. The latter changed (not a lot of aimed half-mile shots from trench to trench), and the tools changed to follow.

Perversely, I think if anything we need to be more heavily regulating the smaller cartridges.

I don't know. Maybe actually seeing the president in action somewhat close to home will make him realize he's acted like an ass the past four years. Idealistic I know but sometimes a light bulb goes off.

On the contrary, I posit that this sort of event would be a lot less likely if the only rifles available were firing larger and heavier cartridges that result in longer and heavier weapons that are massively ill-suited to urban combat and firing at high rates of fire in close quarters.

This is, after all, why a rifle from WW1 or WW2 is quite appropriate to hunting but not to modern warfare. The latter changed (not a lot of aimed half-mile shots from trench to trench, and the tools changed to follow.

Perversely, I think if anything we need to be more heavily regulating the smaller cartridges.

Depending on where you live and what you hunt a rifle might not be appropriate at all. In areas of PA, and I think fairly large chunks of NY, even deer hunting is limited to using a shotgun firing slugs. Limited range and carry of the round in order to increase safety.

(Googling to see if I can find links to some of the applicable regulations on weapons and ammo.)

Depending on where you live and what you hunt a rifle might not be appropriate at all. In areas of PA, and I think fairly large chunks of NY, even deer hunting is limited to using a shotgun firing slugs. Limited range and carry of the round in order to increase safety.

Completely agree. We're still left with a heavy and bulky weapon, although birdshot and the like are going to be a tricky sticking point. At least you can't fit thirty shells in a pump-action.

The .223 is not the same as the military round 5.56×45mm NATO of the same caliber/diameter & overall shape. The military round has more pressure and powder. It is very dangerous to put mil spec ammunition in a .223 gun. It can blow the breech.

Pretty logical and well written piece on next steps by David Gergen. I must confess, when it comes to the talking heads on the various networks more often than not I find him to be the most reasonable. Not always, but often.

The .223 is not the same as the military round 5.56×45mm NATO of the same caliber/diameter & overall shape. The military round has more pressure and powder. It is very dangerous to put mil spec ammunition in a .223 gun. It can blow the breech.

They look the same except on the bottom.

There are semi-autos that can handle mil-spec ammo safely. But you have to do your research to find one and then make sure its right for you. As ever, don't believe the marketing hype, instead shop smart.

I did mean it to be gender-focused, though not gender-specific. The ads in question were speaking solely to men and so my reply was aimed towards men. But my statement should not be read to say that "what a real man is, a woman is not."

There are semi-autos that can handle mil-spec ammo safely. But you have to do your research to find one and then make sure its right for you. As ever, don't believe the marketing hype, instead shop smart. Shop S-Mart.

We not only care about the First Amendment on Focal Point, we also care about the Second Amendment. And remember, the Second Amendment, this is basically the right to self defense, this is the right to protect yourself, it's the right to bear arms in your own defense, it's our surest guarantee against a tyrannical takeover by some occupying power or even by our own government. A government is stopped, they are stalled, they have to be mindful of the fact that the American citizens have arms, so there's a limit to what they can get away with under the use of force.

So the Second Amendment is very important to us. Jesus, his teaching [is] virtually the foundation of the Second Amendment because, remember, one time he told his disciples "look, the time is going to come when you're going to need a sword - if you don't have a sword, sell everything you've got and buy one, you're going to need one for your own protection." So Jesus [was] legitimizing the use of the right of self-defense, endorsing the right of self-defense, and that's what is enshrined in the Second Amendment.

Completely agree. We're still left with a heavy and bulky weapon, although birdshot and the like are going to be a tricky sticking point. At least you can't fit thirty shells in a pump-action.

Found the applicable PA regs:

PA (Deer and Bear) - Arms and Ammo

Deer and Bear: Regular Seasons - 1) Manually operated (pump,
lever, bolt actions, single-shot) centerfi re rifl es, shotguns and handguns
(revolvers or single-shots) with all lead bullet or ball, or bullet
designed to expand on impact; 2) muzzleloading long guns of any
type, 44 caliber or larger, or a muzzleloading handgun 50 caliber
or larger; and 3) long, recurve, compound bows (minimum draw
weight of 35 pounds) or crossbows with broadheads of cutting edge
design. The use of buckshot is not legal, except in the Southeast
Special Regulations Area.

No specific ammo restriction beyond all-lead ball or bullet. Though if you look for hunting (game) rounds vs military rounds you generally see them being "blunt" soft-nosed bullets as compared to military rounds that are more ballistic in appearance. (Anecdotal though - mainly from seeing 8mm and 30-06 rounds. Less likely in .223 since it's fairly easy and cheap to get surplus military ammo in this caliber. But I don't know anyone who hunts in .223 - though my BIL in Colorado has a bolt-action .223 for dealing with varmits.)

Don't see any sort of magazine restriction until you get over into turkey and small game. There are some shot size and composition restrictions there as well as a limit to three (3) shells combined in chamber and magazine.

THIRD: Parents should be heavily advised to keep guns out of their houses and out of the hands of kids. No one wants to blame the poor mother of the Connecticut shooter, but everyone wonders why she kept so many military-style guns in the house, so accessible to her son.

Heavily advised?

No one wants to blame the poor mother of the Connecticut shooter

Really? Why not?

everyone wonders why she kept so many military-style guns in the house, so accessible to her son

Because she was a survivalist nut. Legally sane. And apparently otherwise a good neighbor to those in need, as an article I read today claimed. But a nut, nonetheless.

I hope he's right about changing the gun culture. I'm skeptical. But would be happy to be proven wrong.

Can we please stop talking about Bryan Fischer, just for today? The man words are Dominionist Kool-Aid and reading them is depressing.

And yes, I just compared Bryan Fischer to Jim Jones. Fischer is extremely full of himself, has fantasies of persecution, and preaches a destructive doctrine that has the deliberate effect of isolating his follows from others. That in my mind justifies the comparison.

What's weird about the Chinese situation is that there are knife attacks on schools kids - how many? I don't know - but I do know it happens often enough for me to remember it happened before. Some say it has to do with the one child policy in China and men not having families snap and try and kill children.

What's weird about the Chinese situation is that there are knife attacks on schools kids - how many? I don't know - but I do know it happens often enough for me to remember it happened before. Some say it has to do with the one child policy in China and men not having families snap and try and kill children.

I was thinking about that too but in relation to the assault weapons ban. Sure the gun industry bitches loudly but I don't think they mind that much. Even the mention of gun control drives up sales, then in a few years there's another bump in sales when the assault weapons ban is lifted. There are enough loopholes and weapons are grandfathered in, still sold at gun shows or private sales. The "ban" increases the price tag.

The murder of 27 innocents by a moral monster reminds us that the great challenges to the practicability of this theory are the young and the mad — those who cannot yet fully answer to reason and morality, and those who never will. By consensus, we agree that children and madmen lack certain liberties the rest of us enjoy, and that we have toward them correlate paternalistic duties that we don’t toward each other. As ever, the devil — the politics — lies in the details.

God, I hate retroactive psychology.

I'm more scared of politicians policing the definitions of sanity than of lethal weaponry. Between the plain ignorance, the Lyshenkoism, the pseudo-Christian moralizing, and the straight up stigma in this country where by mental illness of any kind = going postal I have zero faith in defining madness.

If being gay is a political statement then it's protected by the 1st Amendment. I'm not sure they want to go down that road where gay love and sex are protected from congress by the bright line that the constitution draws around speech.

If it was a Muslim, there'd be a whole lot of folks on FR and Atlas screaming for a pogrom. And some would very likely start going Baruch Goldstein.

I mentioned that on Friday night. That's the reason we're hearing so many outlandish excuses and explanations. If he wasn't a white kid, whatever he was would be the de-facto excuse.

If he was Muslim, or hell even if he happened to be close to brown, we'd see a major surge in hate crimes against things like Mosques and other Temples (I forgot, was it Sikhs in that one temple shooting? Indians?)

Fort Hood shooter Hassan was Muslim. That was pretty ugly on all counts.

Yeah, but bad as that was he shot grown soldiers. Killing little kids is... I have no words for it. I think it would be more like the reaction to McVeigh (who also killed kids), you know, when they first captured him and did the perp walk? The rage towards him was palpable. Had the police turned him loose, I'm certain he wouldn't have survived walking 10 yards.

I am wondering if it is possible to actually do anything at this point, seeing how the lines are being drawn.

Over at Balloon Juice (a site I have frequented for years) some of the louder folks are busy advocating the wholesale repeal of the 2nd Amendment while claiming that any and all gun owners are "swimming in the warm blood of the innocent" and also "have tiny penis's".

When I tried to point out that insulting gun owners who you will need to actually get useful regulation passed may not be the best idea, I was quickly told to fuck off and die.

Meeeeeeanwhile over at Instaidiot's House of Craaaazy, the Ol' Perfessor is advocating that I should be strapped and packing heat when I go off to teach at junior high.

Wow.

The screaming past each other will continue. Nothing will actually get passed because the GOP controls the House and the Senate will not produce a bill that a majority in the House will agree on. Well meaning and justified outrage on the left will unfortunately find expression like what I ran into, and gun owners (who overwhelmingly support some sort of controls according to polls) will refuse to compromise if they think they are being blamed or are being called baby killers and monsters.

I mentioned that on Friday night. That's the reason we're hearing so many outlandish excuses and explanations. If he wasn't a white kid, whatever he was would be the de-facto excuse.

If he was Muslim, or hell even if he happened to be close to brown, we'd see a major surge in hate crimes against things like Mosques and other Temples (I forgot, was it Sikhs in that one temple shooting? Indians?)

But, he's white, so it's time to dust off the old excuses.

Very true. I remember looking over at FR during the initial stages of the massacre, before the gunman's name was known, and there were quite a few saying it was a jhadi attack.

Of course, there were also quite a few saying it was likely some crazy white kid.

The thing is, as with probably every other issue in this country (hell, can generalize it to the world too), there is a happy medium that a majority of folks would happily support. The problem is the fringes on both sides of the issue. Those fringes are the folks that scream the loudest, that tend to have the biggest financial backing, and have the biggest media presence.

Moderate voices are seldom heard because the lunatic fringes are too busy screaming over them at each other.

I'm not passionate about this issue on either side.
While I generally come down on the side of "people should be able to own or do whatever they want" it looks to me like what people do with guns may be just too much.

If it were up to me, people could buy any drug without a prescription including cocaine. If it were up to me there would be no laws against prostitution. If it were up to me, the age of consent would be lower - ie it shouldn't be illegal for people to do what they're going to do anyway.

But given the results in this country, I have to support gun control if reluctantly. People use guns to kill OTHER people. That's not victimless.

Very true. I remember looking over at FR during the initial stages of the massacre, before the gunman's name was known, and there were quite a few saying it was a jhadi attack.

Of course, there were also quite a few saying it was likely some crazy white kid.

I think it was Chris Rock, maybe? Who did a small skit on crime and race in American. The gist of it was how black people crime is usually robbing somebody because they have no money. White people always did all the creepy shit, like kidnapping, mass murder, eating people, mail bombings etc.

The thing is, as with probably every other issue in this country (hell, can generalize it to the world too), there is a happy medium that a majority of folks would happily support. The problem is the fringes on both sides of the issue. Those fringes are the folks that scream the loudest, that tend to have the biggest financial backing, and have the biggest media presence.

Moderate voices are seldom heard because the lunatic fringes are too busy screaming over them at each other.

What both sides? What "fringe" for gun control has any voice at all least of all financial backing and media presence?

I mentioned that on Friday night. That's the reason we're hearing so many outlandish excuses and explanations. If he wasn't a white kid, whatever he was would be the de-facto excuse.

If he was Muslim, or hell even if he happened to be close to brown, we'd see a major surge in hate crimes against things like Mosques and other Temples (I forgot, was it Sikhs in that one temple shooting? Indians?)

But, he's white, so it's time to dust off the old excuses.

If it was anything but white suburban killer it would be a right wing wet dream. That would be an excuse for them to buy and hoard more guns and join faux militias where obese middle aged men pretend they can hump in the bush for days at a time like a real soldier can.

I think it was Chris Rock, maybe? Who did a small skit on crime and race in American. The gist of it was how black people crime is usually robbing somebody because they have no money. White people always did all the creepy shit, like kidnapping, mass murder, eating people, mail bombings etc.

It was Chris Rock.

"You know, l was just in my hotel, a little while ago, on my way here...and l got in the elevator, right? l'm getting in the elevator...and these two high-school white boy stry to get on with me...and l just dove off. l said, ''Y'all ain't killing me!''l am scared of young white boys.

lf you white and under 21 l am running for the hills. What the hell is wrong with these white kids shooting up the school? They don't even wait till three o’clock either. Killing people in the morning. That ain't right.

Yeah, Bubba and buddies, armed to the teeth with 30.06's, AK's, AR's, and the like. Screaming towards the "enemy" in their pickup truck, guns blazing. None of them saw the Javelin streaking towards them until they had just enough time to say in unison "Oh fuck!". Truck and bodies were recovered and given a proper burial.

I think it was Chris Rock, maybe? Who did a small skit on crime and race in American. The gist of it was how black people crime is usually robbing somebody because they have no money. White people always did all the creepy shit, like kidnapping, mass murder, eating people, mail bombings etc.

I've noticed it as well. I was living with an ex-girlfriend, black woman, during the Colombine Massacre, and we were both home that day (day off from work for both of us) and while the news unfolded, she said, "I'll betcha it's a couple of crackers. Only you honkies do that kinda shit." This was ribbing on her part. Then of course, when Harris and Klebold were ID'd as the shooters, she said, "What'd I tell you?! People afraid of us black folks - they should be more afraid when they see some teen honky walking down the street! What is it with you white folks?!" Of course, like me, she had a gallows sense of humor, but also like me, she was appalled at what had just happened.

Sadly, I lost touch with her over the years. I wonder what she'd be thinking of this latest massacre?

There have been on average 1 or 2 such attacks each year in China, generally by men with knives or hammers. Wikipedia lists 9 incidents beginning March 2010 to September 2011. The most recent attack is not included.

Counting the recent attack, at least 21 people (mostly kids) died and more than 100 were injured. At least three of the attackers were tried and executed, and another three committed suicide.

I know of only one shooting incident, when a security officer opened fire in a courthouse with an automatic weapon. Details are here.

There are many reasons for the attacks. Most of the attackers have been either mentally ill or distraught in some way. There are a lot of social pressures here on some people, especially men, because of rapid economic changes. I doubt the one-child policy has much to do with it.