Of course killing can happen without guns (I was in Rwanda, remember). But guns absolutely make it easier, faster, generally "cleaner", and almost always less "personally involving" than most other means for the common person to have at their disposal. For that reason, I think it's reasonable to have a view of gun control that is a bit different than a view of, for instance, pocket knives.

...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.

Lootifer wrote:What possible relevance does this have to the gun control debate?

The authors of the study blamed impunity (only five to eight percent of crimes are solved in Brazil compared with 80 percent in France) and insufficient efforts to combat a prevailing culture of violence.

Seriously Im tempted to report your post its that absurd...

I presume he's trying to claim that since there are other means for killing, ALL means of killing should be treated exactly the same way. Which doesn't make a lot of sense, really.

...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.

Lootifer wrote:What possible relevance does this have to the gun control debate?

The authors of the study blamed impunity (only five to eight percent of crimes are solved in Brazil compared with 80 percent in France) and insufficient efforts to combat a prevailing culture of violence.

Seriously Im tempted to report your post its that absurd...

I presume he's trying to claim that since there are other means for killing, ALL means of killing should be treated exactly the same way. Which doesn't make a lot of sense, really.

... Yeah... something like that. 1.1 million murders is a lot of murders. Many are arguing that fewer/no guns in the hands of Americans would mean fewer murders. I am attempting (with little success apparently) to demonstrate that perhaps things are not that simple.

Lootifer wrote:What possible relevance does this have to the gun control debate?

The authors of the study blamed impunity (only five to eight percent of crimes are solved in Brazil compared with 80 percent in France) and insufficient efforts to combat a prevailing culture of violence.

Seriously Im tempted to report your post its that absurd...

I presume he's trying to claim that since there are other means for killing, ALL means of killing should be treated exactly the same way. Which doesn't make a lot of sense, really.

... Yeah... something like that. 1.1 million murders is a lot of murders. Many are arguing that fewer/no guns in the hands of Americans would mean fewer murders. I am attempting (with little success apparently) to demonstrate that perhaps things are not that simple.

For Looty: Absurd? If somebody wants you dead, and they have no gun, they can get the job done with a machete, a baseball bat, or whatever is convenient.

But I have looked into this further to discover that Brazilians do indeed have firearms, and in great quantities.

Lootifer wrote:What possible relevance does this have to the gun control debate?

The authors of the study blamed impunity (only five to eight percent of crimes are solved in Brazil compared with 80 percent in France) and insufficient efforts to combat a prevailing culture of violence.

Seriously Im tempted to report your post its that absurd...

I presume he's trying to claim that since there are other means for killing, ALL means of killing should be treated exactly the same way. Which doesn't make a lot of sense, really.

... Yeah... something like that. 1.1 million murders is a lot of murders. Many are arguing that fewer/no guns in the hands of Americans would mean fewer murders. I am attempting (with little success apparently) to demonstrate that perhaps things are not that simple.

I certainly would agree with you that even if we were to go the "get rid of all guns" route, it's not going to stop all murders from happening in the United States.

That being said, there IS a difference between the use of a gun to kill someone and the use of most other weapons. Most other weapons are more "personally involved", which for many people makes a tremendous difference psychologically...the gun is a much easier method for them for that reason. Most other weapons also provide more of an opportunity to "fight back" and maybe at least cause more evidence to be left at the scene (blood of the attacker, etc).

Don't get me wrong...I am NOT a "get rid of all guns" advocate, nor even a "get rid of any guns" advocate. I DO advocate required background checks for all gun sales, however. That won't stop any murders directly, I don't think...but it will help to resolve them after the fact and in some cases make it more difficult for criminals to get guns.

...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.

Lootifer wrote:What possible relevance does this have to the gun control debate?

The authors of the study blamed impunity (only five to eight percent of crimes are solved in Brazil compared with 80 percent in France) and insufficient efforts to combat a prevailing culture of violence.

Seriously Im tempted to report your post its that absurd...

I presume he's trying to claim that since there are other means for killing, ALL means of killing should be treated exactly the same way. Which doesn't make a lot of sense, really.

... Yeah... something like that. 1.1 million murders is a lot of murders. Many are arguing that fewer/no guns in the hands of Americans would mean fewer murders. I am attempting (with little success apparently) to demonstrate that perhaps things are not that simple.

For Looty: Absurd? If somebody wants you dead, and they have no gun, they can get the job done with a machete, a baseball bat, or whatever is convenient.

But I have looked into this further to discover that Brazilians do indeed have firearms, and in great quantities.

..... Move along.... Nothing to see here....

I agree, people will kill each other if they really want to.

I also agree that guns arent really the issue (in Brazil or the US); there are far more important factors involved.

Where we disagree is that I dont think guns help the situation. But I am certainly not getting involved in this debate again, the US can be as pro-gun as they like; I will continue to feel that you're a bit crazy, but I am certainly not going to say you should get rid of them: thats not my place (just please dont shoot me when I come over on Holiday).

Things Don’t Turn Out Well for Group of Thugs Who Went After 75-Year-Old Man – Three Are in Custody and One Is at the Morgue

SANDSTONE, Minn. (TheBlaze/AP) — Sheriff’s officials say three people are in custody after a homeowner shot and killed an armed intruder during a home invasion in eastern Minnesota.Minnesota Man Shoots Kills Armed Robber, 3 Suspects in Custody

Authorities say two men in their 20s entered a house near Sandstone about 2:30 a.m. Thursday with the apparent intent to rob the old homeowner, who KAAL-TV identifies as 75-year-old Charles Carlson.

At least one of the intruders was armed with a handgun.

Following a struggle with one of the intruders, Carlson was able to grab his own gun and shoot the armed suspect, who was later pronounced dead at the scene, according to Pine County Sheriff Robin Cole. The dead suspect is identified as 23-year-old Gypsy Watts. A second suspect fled.

WDIO-TV reports three persons of interest were arrested Thursday afternoon. Authorities say no other suspects are being sought. Authorities also found a van they believe was involved.

The homeowner was not hurt and is reportedly cooperating with investigators.

Though he is not expected to face legal consequences, the County Attorney’s office will determine if the shooting fits the criteria for self-defense.