In your opinion, why in a weak draft and after all of the great things you read and saw about him and considering he was the #1 rated Center, was he mostly a 2nd or 3rd round pick in most circles?

I answered that already. Talking heads don't have the resources that NFL teams and scouting departments do. The amount of homework draftniks put in cannot match what they do at the NFL level. To expect the draftniks to always be ahead of the curve is totally inaccurate. They aren't at every pro day... they aren't dialing head coaches to find out the intricacies and habits of each player. They are fans like us.... just committed on a different level... but still on the outside looking in.

Guys like Mayock, Kiper and McShay constantly adjust their boards if they even get an inkling from a source coming from inside NFL circles.

...Mayock hears a scout from one team say DJ Hayden will go high in the draft.... All of a sudden Mayock has Hayden the #1 CB prospect.

...McShay thinks the Buffalo coach is too connected to Nassib... Nassib is going #8 to the Bills in his final mock!

So to say, the talking heads are the judging boards for what NFL teams to/think is completely backwards logic!

But before taking Escobar, Jones made sure his coaches were on board with his desire to follow the Patriots' roadmap to becoming an offensive juggernaut.

“Are we all resolved to doing it different relative to injecting that influence in this offense?” Jones said of his conversation with coach Jason Garrett and his offensive assistants. “Don't come in here with the same old same old. ... If we go this route with the tight end, we are going to shake it up around here. It's going to be different.”

How different is yet to be determined, although there has been talk of the Cowboys even using a three tight-end set with Witten, Escobar and second-year pro James Hanna.

“This is a guy who can come in and really make a difference for us at that tight end spot opposite Witten,” Garrett said of Escobar. “We feel Witten is arguably as good a tight end as there is in the NFL. When you add somebody else inside at that position with this guy's length, athleticism and pass-catching ability to go along with our outside receivers, it can be a challenging personnel group for defenses.”

The 6-foot-6, 255-pound Escobar caught 122 passes for 1,646 yards and 17 touchdowns at San Diego State. As a junior in 2012, he had 42 catches for 543 yards and six TDs.

Others point out Dallas has tried this before, picking Anthony Fasano in the second round in 2006 and Texas A&M's Martellus Bennett in the second round in 2008. Neither, though, worked out as a complementary piece to Witten.

“We had packages we worked on for weeks, but he didn't show,” Jones said of Bennett.

It is a gigantic game of Chicken. It is also a gigantic game of Musical Chairs. And the two games involve gigantic sums of money and, because it’s all about offensive tackles, it involves gigantic men, too.

And beleaguered Dallas Cowboys tackle Doug Free is now a player in the game of Musical-Chair Chicken.

A source close to Free tells me the veteran “anticipates not being with the Cowboys’’ as of June 1 – an indication he is presently unwilling to accept Dallas’ proposal that would substantially reduce his $7 million salary and allow him to likely retain his job starting at right tackle.

June 1 is the day Dallas can release Free and suffer the least amount of cap damage, as his $10-million impact will be allowed to be spread over two seasons. It is clear Dallas prefers to retain Free (but at its desired price). That’s not just a matter of correcting an overpayment on him; it’s also a matter of freeing up cap space that can be used, for instance, to lock up linebacker Sean Lee with a rich extension.

We think that (Jeremy) Parnell and Free … put us in great shape at our tackles,’’ Cowboys owner Jerry Jones said this week, noting the two players who rotated at right tackle at the end of last season. “We have a way here that Doug could flourish …”

That “way’’ is to cease overpaying him.

If Free will not budge? That’s why this is a game of Musical-Chair Chicken.

The Cowboys’ top-rated free-agent tackle is, by far, ex-Falcons stalwart Tyson Clabo. One source maybe optimistically says Clabo might settle for a one-year deal worth around $4 million. But his leverage in this situation figures to earn him more – somewhere.

Other veteran tackles on the market include Eric Winston (who is on-record as saying he’d sign for one year and $3 mil), Winston Justice and, for a moment there, Bryant McKinnie (who today re-upped with Baltimore).

For weeks there have been errant reports regarding Dallas “offering’’ these players. Truth is, there has been “touching-base’’ contact in large part because, the Cowboys personnel department tells me, none of those guys are major upgrades over Free.

The cogs are about to turn. Dallas is trying to play hardball with Free. And Free’s attitude suggests he’s responding in kind.

Meanwhile, the Cowboys are working to out-wait, if not out-bid, the competition. The competition – led by the Dolphins – is doing the same with Dallas. There are only so many tackle jobs and there are only so many tackles. (In theory: Free doesn’t budge. The Dolphins win Clabo. The Cowboys then act Winston. Free is left out in the cold.)

Cowboys officials say on the record that they don’t want to create an artificial deadline here for Free. But chairs are about to be occupied, and it’s been suggested to me that Free will be made to know that Dallas wants a response before Monday.
“We want him back,’’ Dallas exec Stephen Jones said of Free. “We’d love to have him here. I think he’d love to be here. Now the question is, it’s got to work for him and it’s got to work for us. I have all the respect in the world for Doug. He works his ass off.’’

I answered that already. Talking heads don't have the resources that NFL teams and scouting departments do. The amount of homework draftniks put in cannot match what they do at the NFL level. To expect the draftniks to always be ahead of the curve is totally inaccurate. They aren't at every pro day... they aren't dialing head coaches to find out the intricacies and habits of each player. They are fans like us.... just committed on a different level... but still on the outside looking in.

Guys like Mayock, Kiper and McShay constantly adjust their boards if they even get an inkling from a source coming from inside NFL circles.

...Mayock hears a scout from one team say DJ Hayden will go high in the draft.... All of a sudden Mayock has Hayden the #1 CB prospect.

...McShay thinks the Buffalo coach is too connected to Nassib... Nassib is going #8 to the Bills in his final mock!

So to say, the talking heads are the judging boards for what NFL teams to/think is completely backwards logic!

I didnt ask about what info the talking heads have, I asked why do you think it is that they had the same info as you (probably WAY more but we'll just say the same) and came away with a 3rd round grade where as you thought a 1st was justified. I understsnd the NFL has more/better resorces than Kiper or Mayock, although the NFL teams get it wrong just as often as the draftniks, but to act like these guys are stupid and just randomly put guys in some order without reason seem silly to me. They do, do this for a living, but back to the question why do you think MOST circles had a 3rd round grade on him while YOU, not the NFL, YOU thought a 1st was justified. Im just talking about Fredrick, not the need or anything else just the players overall rating?

Say what you will about how Dallas handled the first round of the NFL Draft — and plenty of people are doing just that, inside and outside the organization — but don’t question the seven players the Cowboys took, starting with Wisconsin center Travis Frederick in the first round.

The Cowboys feel every pick will contribute in 2013, some more than others. They believe all of them have the potential to become starters in the future, so there is a feeling inside the organization that this is the best draft the team has had in a few years in terms of the picks and the value.

“All in all, it was probably the most successful draft we’ve had in a while,” a source said. “We got a guy in the fifth round [running back Joseph Randle] we had on the board in the third. We got good value on guys instead or reaching as we did in the past. Last year, we needed a safety and might have pumped a little air in [fourth-round pick Matt Johnson]. We took him earlier than we needed to. That didn’t happen this year, other than maybe the first round. We got good value.”

While he might have been a reach at the 31st pick overall, the Cowboys truly believe they took a good player in Frederick, who is an immediate upgrade at center and is expected to help the team immensely in 2013.

The Cowboys did their best work, however, on the second and third day of the draft, starting with tight end Gavin Escobar in the second round. No one questions his talent or potential. He was considered the second- or third-best tight end in the draft, and the Cowboys got him right where he was projected to go.

The best selection, however, might have been Baylor receiver Terrance Williams with the controversial pick they got from the San Francisco 49ers in the third round.

The Cowboys had Williams rated higher on their draft board than Escobar, according to a source. But they felt the potential was greater for him or another quality receiver to be there in the third than Escobar being there.

They turned out to be right. That could be a huge win for owner/general manager Jerry Jones and the personnel department.

No matter how badly they messed up in the first round, it turned out OK when they came away with Frederick and Williams to show for the 18th overall pick they traded to San Francisco.

“That’s how the draft go,” said a defensive-turned-giddy Jones after picking Williams on Friday while trying to make a play on the popular “That’s how baseball go” line made famous by Texas Rangers manager Ron Washington.

The Cowboys had Georgia Southern safety J.J. Wilcox as a third-round pick, and that’s where they took him. Certainly he is still learning the position after playing it just one year in college, but they love his potential and upside.

The Cowboys were also pleased with William and Mary cornerback B.W. Webb in the fourth round. A couple of scouts had him rated as a second-round prospect. The Cowboys say he compares favorably to Southeastern Louisiana cornerback Robert Alford, whom the Atlanta Falcons took in the second round.

The Cowboys believe Webb will pay dividends now and in the future in terms of how it relates to nickel cornerback Orlando Scandrick.

Scandrick graded out as Pro Football Focus’ No. 43-ranked cornerback in pass coverage last season. His salary jumps to $3.5 million in 2014 and $5 million in 2015 and 2016. Webb’s rookie deal will have him making minimum salaries in each of the next four years.

So the Cowboys believe they got value and potential salary flexibility with Webb.

Getting Randle in the fifth round was another coup since they had the former Oklahoma State star graded as a third-round pick.

“He walks in as the No. 2 running back,” the source said. “He has DeMarco Murray traits. Getting that guy in the fifth round was huge. We won’t lose any sleep if he has to start.”

The Cowboys believe they also got good value with South Carolina linebacker Devonte Holloman in the sixth round. They had him graded in the fifth.

The interesting thing is the Cowboys had Arizona State linebacker Brandon Magee rated as a fourth-rounder.

They made the call to pick Holloman and chance that Magee would make it to free agency because of Magee’s smaller size and injury history. They also felt Holloman was a better special teams player.

That’s also why they signed Magee as an undrafted free agent, giving him an NFL-high $70,000 guarantee on his first-year salary. Magee received a $5,000 signing bonus, and $65,000 of his first-year salary was guaranteed to him whether he makes the team or not.

The Dallas Cowboys left themselves open to the slings and arrows of fans and pundits when (as most would agree) they reached for Wisconsin center Travis Frederick with the 31st overall pick in the 2013 NFL Draft.

"We got a guy in the fifth round (running back Joseph Randle) we had on the board in the third. We got good value on guys instead of reaching as we did in the past. Last year, we needed a safety and might have pumped a little air in (fourth-round pick Matt Johnson). We took him earlier than we needed to. That didn't happen this year, other than maybe the first round," the source said. "We got good value."

Hill's source admits that pockets of team personnel viewed Frederick as a reach (which alone is troubling), but the piece credits the Cowboys for grabbing tight end Gavin Escobar in the second round, "right where he was projected to go." Last we checked, that's neither a victory nor a defeat.

While general managers league-wide are held accountable and often fired when their teams struggle, Jones remains untouchable. Despite two decades worth of drafts that reveal Jones has, at very best, a subpar eye for talent, he continues to pick players for a Cowboys franchise that can't get out of its own way.

Jones never was trained as a scout, but seems to think he can do the job as well as anyone else, which should make hard-working scouts everywhere red-faced.

In the end, pretty quotes out of Dallas won't erase the core problem faced by this mediocre franchise.

I didnt ask about what info the talking heads have, I asked why do you think it is that they had the same info as you (probably WAY more but we'll just say the same) and came away with a 3rd round grade where as you thought a 1st was justified. I understsnd the NFL has more/better resorces than Kiper or Mayock, although the NFL teams get it wrong just as often as the draftniks, but to act like these guys are stupid and just randomly put guys in some order without reason seem silly to me. They do, do this for a living, but back to the question why do you think MOST circles had a 3rd round grade on him while YOU, not the NFL, YOU thought a 1st was justified. Im just talking about Fredrick, not the need or anything else just the players overall rating?

1. I don't agree that "most" circles had him as a 3rd round pick.

2. I've heard many say he was the #1 Center in the draft.

3. I got fooled by all the ZBS talk and I downgraded him too much because of his poor timed speed, but he has everything else I want out of a Center. Highly intelligent, extreme nastiness, strong base, brute strength, dominating drive blocker, immovable object once he anchors, ability to neutralize big DL at the point of attack, big hands and long arms, experience/success in the Big Ten (cold/tough/running conference), versatility at OG and C, only Badger to every play as a freshman, highly coachable (his coaches rave about him), and to top it off... plays MISTAKE FREE football.

5. OL were getting picked higher than they have ever gone.

6. Pre-draft rumors swirled that ATL and IND could take him in Round 1.

7. BtB asked Scott to name one interior OL that would fit the Cowboys and he mentioned Travis Frederick, but didn't think Frederick would last to us in Round 2.

8. Callahan prioritizes Center #1.

If the argument was that he was a reach, I can agree with that... but it was only a small one. It wasn't so significant as to need to whine about. In the draft, teams have to choose the guy they want most with the pick they have, while they can cause they don't normally pick until the next round.

Listen to the podcast on Dallascowboys.com. Tom Ciscowski explains everything! It's a GREAT listen! Do it!

I didnt ask about what info the talking heads have, I asked why do you think it is that they had the same info as you (probably WAY more but we'll just say the same) and came away with a 3rd round grade where as you thought a 1st was justified. I understsnd the NFL has more/better resorces than Kiper or Mayock, although the NFL teams get it wrong just as often as the draftniks, but to act like these guys are stupid and just randomly put guys in some order without reason seem silly to me. They do, do this for a living, but back to the question why do you think MOST circles had a 3rd round grade on him while YOU, not the NFL, YOU thought a 1st was justified. Im just talking about Fredrick, not the need or anything else just the players overall rating?

If the great beard turns out to be a ten year player then I could give two buckets of backdoor chocolate sauce where he was drafted in the 2013 NFL draft.

That will always be my only concern with drafting. Just get it right. Does anyone think we picked a Troy Williamson at #7(where everyone was predicting bust before that draft took place), cause I don't. I feel like we picked up a quality player who will step into our starting lineup this year. That's all that matters.

That's why first round/second/third/blah blah blah round pre draft crap is annoying. The goal of the NFL draft is to select players who will contribute and optimistically start over the long term. I don't mind "reaching" for a player if the coaches and the team feels they won't be there by the next pick or they happen to be the highest rated player at the highest rated Position of need. Frederick fits the bill.

My one and only concern with this draft is that we were drafting in the top twenty. I would have preferred giving up that spot to San Fran for this year and next years #1 picks. And then traded out of #31 to #40-#50.(and a third). But that's obviously a best case scenario.

3. I got fooled by all the ZBS talk and I downgraded him too much because of his poor timed speed, but he has everything else I want out of a Center. Highly intelligent, extreme nastiness, strong base, brute strength, dominating drive blocker, immovable object once he anchors, ability to neutralize big DL at the point of attack, big hands and long arms, experience/success in the Big Ten (cold/tough/running conference), versatility at OG and C, only Badger to every play as a freshman, highly coachable (his coaches rave about him), and to top it off... plays MISTAKE FREE football.

5. OL were getting picked higher than they have ever gone.

6. Pre-draft rumors swirled that ATL and IND could take him in Round 1.

7. BtB asked Scott to name one interior OL that would fit the Cowboys and he mentioned Travis Frederick, but didn't think Frederick would last to us in Round 2.

8. Callahan prioritizes Center #1.

If the argument was that he was a reach, I can agree with that... but it was only a small one. It wasn't so significant as to need to whine about. In the draft, teams have to choose the guy they want most with the pick they have, while they can cause they don't normally pick until the next round.

Listen to the podcast on Dallascowboys.com. Tom Ciscowski explains everything! It's a GREAT listen! Do it!

Quote:

My Film Analysis:
Travis Frederick understands schemes and does a good job of reading defenses. He exhibits a high football IQ and makes good calls at the line, but brains alone don’t get it done in the trenches. He lacks the necessary upper-body strength, lacks good arm length, is slow off of the snap and lacks a solid punch/power at the point of attack. He plays high and doesn’t get good leverage, he seems off balance and doesn’t anchor well. He lacks good speed for getting to the second level (5.55 40), has stiff hips and doesn’t move well laterally, lacks the overall power to stop the bull rush, lacks the athletic ability and power to hit on the move. When I watched him on tape he seemed to be moving backwards rather than forwards against 325lb or bigger defensive linemen. [B]My grade on him is a 65.3[/b].

Quote:

The Dallas Cowboys signed a center IN THE FIRST ROUND, who not only had a 3rd round grade of 78.7, (according to NFL draft tracker) but only did 21 reps on the bench! What the hell are they smoking? How in the hell do they expect a guy to anchor the middle of the offensive line when you have WR’s, CB’s, RB’s and safeties with much more upper body strength? What the hell, we may as well have Cole Beasley block, he did 18 and only weighs 175 lbs!

Another opinion from a former scout

Quote:

“Can reach a one technique…will lunge on the second level…doesn’t play like a great athlete…push-shove blocker…times where plays really tall and upright…thought he could have some better knee bend…might not be the athlete to do that.

stalemate blocker on block back…will help across the pocket when he has to…smart guy that understands his assignments…doesn’t play with much pop…holds on the second level…thought he could have done a better job sustaining his blocks…doesn’t extend on rusher to get him away from his body…tries to use his upper body strength to control his man…

tends to catch more blocks than he does punch…initial pop then has a struggle one-on-one…belly to belly blocker…is a much better player when uncovered…gets compressed at times when trying to get push…can seal blocks at times…position blocker…has a nasty side to try and finish his blocks…can pull when uncovered…

For a player his size I was very surprised that he only benched 21 times at the Combine

Funny how everything you've read has been rosey but as you can see, Ive found plenty to not be happy about and says he was a HUGH reach.

Any scout that says Travis Frederick lacks upper body strength should never give an opinion again. I question how Wisconsin asked him to drive block (allowing the opposition to get onto his chest and then bodying them out of the play) but I see that across the board when run blocking on the team. So that's a questionable mark on Wisconsin's offensive line coaching more so than the prospect.

The man benches more than 500 pounds... As far as the other stupid comment about the amount of reps. Wisconsin's program is built on power and not repetitions. It was widely reported they worked solely on max benching and not "combine training" in order to hit the 30+ rep mark.

1. Barrett Jones - His total package of smarts, experience, leadership, & versatility have him ahead of Cooper for me.

2. Jonathan Cooper - Best athlete, and still a dream land, but I couldn't put him ahead of Jones as far a C goes.

3. Brian Schwenke - Flew under the radar during the season, but some great Combine numbers validated the Senior Bowl hype.

4. Lamar Mady (pictured) - Strong (35 reps), long arms, strong base to drive defenders off the line. What you love in strength, you give up in speed and nimbleness. Became my pet cat at this position after digging through more research.

5. Travis Frederick - If I based my grades solely on the Combine, he'd be an UDFA. Luckily for him, his valuable Wisconsin experience is his saving grace.

So according to these rankins, we not only didnt get one of the top 3 Centers, we could have gotten one of the top 2 at 107 or 113. Seriously can we please take off the rose colored glasses and admit that not only did we get screwed on the trade down but we fu**ed ourself with the value of the pick? Schwenke in the 4th over Fredrick at 31? C'Mon man! Thats a no brainer! And yes I know they were taken before our 4th rounder but it wouldnt have cost much to move up a few spots to get one of them. This idea that because hes a Cowboy and suddenly is a great pick is dumbfounding. So many better choices at 31 and still could have gotten our Center later.

This reminds me of Bob during the regular season. You are better than this Pocket. We get it you don't like the pick. From the general consensus the draft of the forum isn't in the same corner as you.

Keep pounding the table but it's getting old fast. I had him as a 2nd rounder. The MAJORITY of scouting services had him in the 2nd. Same with Pugh and Long. Offensive lineman went higher than usual and we didn't have the luxury of waiting for value. Starting Livings/Costa/Bernie again was going to get Romo killed.

To avoid saying anything worse than a comparison with Bob I'll just refrain from touching the topic anymore. Frederick was a slight reach (he would have been taken by the Lions in round 2) in a MAJOR position of need.

This reminds me of Bob during the regular season. You are better than this Pocket. We get it you don't like the pick. From the general consensus the draft of the forum isn't in the same corner as you.

Keep pounding the table but it's getting old fast. I had him as a 2nd rounder. The MAJORITY of scouting services had him in the 2nd. Same with Pugh and Long. Offensive lineman went higher than usual and we didn't have the luxury of waiting for value. Starting Livings/Costa/Bernie again was going to get Romo killed.

To avoid saying anything worse than a comparison with Bob I'll just refrain from touching the topic anymore. Frederick was a slight reach (he would have been taken by the Lions in round 2) in a MAJOR position of need.

Alright I'll try to keep my opinions to myself when they arent in line with the rest of the Cowboy fans on this board. I have been pounding the table (probably to much) but Im alone on an island because the rest of the posters that felt the same way as me have been banned again. Im not on here saying you or anybody else is stupid or that Im right and your wrong or my opinion is better/smarter that ANYBODY elses on this board. I respect all of your opinions and like to read your thoughts and ideas. It just so happens I dont agree with SOME of the things we did in this draft and since Im alone, Ive gone out and found some things that agree with me. Sorry didnt mean to offend or come off as a know it all or a Cowboy basher, I just had high hopes and IMO we blew it....again. BTW a line of Livings/Fredrick/Bernie/Free-Parnell is STILL going to get Romo killed. What I dont get is when I bring up certain people that had a 3rd round grade on him its quickly brushed off as talking heads or drafniks that have no idea about NFL boards ect ect but you come back with Lande (who had 4 QBs in his top 12 Mock) saying he had a 2nd round grade as if thats the gospel. This is just my opinion again but unless we upgrade our line somehow this year (Fredrick isnt enough) Garrett is going to be fired, we will miss the playoffs again, and we'll be looking for all new coaches. All the while the problem of the team will be safe and our drafts will continue to suffer.

Only drew was banned. In his interview Travis said they practiced high reps of light weight and Max reps. Coaches preached explosion type lifting.

And yes I'll man up to your snarky mention of those rankings. I'm no "scout". I put those out there for fun. I also had schwenke up there because I thought he was a better zbsfit. Mady was just me being bold. I try to do that from time to time. He went undrafted but I think he can make it good if he gets a shot.

Alright I'll try to keep my opinions to myself when they arent in line with the rest of the Cowboy fans on this board. I have been pounding the table (probably to much) but Im alone on an island because the rest of the posters that felt the same way as me have been banned again. Im not on here saying you or anybody else is stupid or that Im right and your wrong or my opinion is better/smarter that ANYBODY elses on this board. I respect all of your opinions and like to read your thoughts and ideas. It just so happens I dont agree with SOME of the things we did in this draft and since Im alone, Ive gone out and found some things that agree with me. Sorry didnt mean to offend or come off as a know it all or a Cowboy basher, I just had high hopes and IMO we blew it....again. BTW a line of Livings/Fredrick/Bernie/Free-Parnell is STILL going to get Romo killed. What I dont get is when I bring up certain people that had a 3rd round grade on him its quickly brushed off as talking heads or drafniks that have no idea about NFL boards ect ect but you come back with Lande (who had 4 QBs in his top 12 Mock) saying he had a 2nd round grade as if thats the gospel. This is just my opinion again but unless we upgrade our line somehow this year (Fredrick isnt enough) Garrett is going to be fired, we will miss the playoffs again, and we'll be looking for all new coaches. All the while the problem of the team will be safe and our drafts will continue to suffer.

i agree with you pocketaces, i was so pissed off at the reaction of people poming poming the move (and the presence of drewy) i stopped posting the morning of day 2. the point that befuddles me is i even predicted to that no interior offensive lineman would go before the cowboys at 47, and i was right and when i pointed it out, the responses i got were "you don't know he would still be there" or "this team took a center or a guard in 4th or 5th round, so they could have easily taken one in the second round".

i like the pick in escobar if they're truly moving toward a NE style of offense and williams, wilcox, webb, and randle are all good picks, but just like you, i am frustrated with this teams idiotic philosophy at the draft when jerry gets involved

Only drew was banned. In his interview Travis said they practiced high reps of light weight and Max reps. Coaches preached explosion type lifting.

And yes I'll man up to your snarky mention of those rankings. I'm no "scout". I put those out there for fun. I also had schwenke up there because I thought he was a better zbsfit. Mady was just me being bold. I try to do that from time to time. He went undrafted but I think he can make it good if he gets a shot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trogdor

This reminds me of Bob during the regular season. You are better than this Pocket. We get it you don't like the pick. From the general consensus the draft of the forum isn't in the same corner as you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pocketaces

Alright I'll try to keep my opinions to myself when they arent in line with the rest of the Cowboy fans on this board. I have been pounding the table (probably to much) but Im alone on an island because the rest of the posters that felt the same way as me have been banned again. Im not on here saying you or anybody else is stupid or that Im right and your wrong or my opinion is better/smarter that ANYBODY elses on this board. I respect all of your opinions and like to read your thoughts and ideas. It just so happens I dont agree with SOME of the things we did in this draft and since Im alone, Ive gone out and found some things that agree with me. Sorry didnt mean to offend or come off as a know it all or a Cowboy basher, I just had high hopes and IMO we blew it....again. BTW a line of Livings/Fredrick/Bernie/Free-Parnell is STILL going to get Romo killed. What I dont get is when I bring up certain people that had a 3rd round grade on him its quickly brushed off as talking heads or drafniks that have no idea about NFL boards ect ect but you come back with Lande (who had 4 QBs in his top 12 Mock) saying he had a 2nd round grade as if thats the gospel. This is just my opinion again but unless we upgrade our line somehow this year (Fredrick isnt enough) Garrett is going to be fired, we will miss the playoffs again, and we'll be looking for all new coaches. All the while the problem of the team will be safe and our drafts will continue to suffer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowboysBeastMode

i agree with you pocketaces, i was so pissed off at the reaction of people poming poming the move (and the presence of drewy) i stopped posting the morning of day 2. the point that befuddles me is i even predicted to that no interior offensive lineman would go before the cowboys at 47, and i was right and when i pointed it out, the responses i got were "you don't know he would still be there" or "this team took a center or a guard in 4th or 5th round, so they could have easily taken one in the second round".

This silliness is making me want to start looking for another forum to have "healthy" discussion instead of the back and forth attacking. Everyone has the right to their opinion and while it should cause debate it shouldn't get to this point. Pocketaces has done nothing other the quote other sources that share his opinion and whether that is against the majority vote in here or not he only adds to his arguement. On the flip side of the coin we are all FANS no matter how much scouting ability we may have, ANYONE has the right to feel optimistic about moves that might not be popular by the media or our own pre draft evaluations. No one should feel like the are being ganged up on in here and if you do go against the grain don't get your feelings hurt but multiple posters disagreeing with your opinion.

]This silliness is making me want to start looking for another forum to have "healthy" discussion instead of the back and forth attacking.

Dont leave, Love your feedback and knowledge

Everyone has the right to their opinion and while it should cause debate it shouldn't get to this point.

Quote:

Pocketaces has done nothing other the quote other sources that share his opinion and whether that is against the majority vote in here or not he only adds to his arguement.

Thats all I was doing. Apperently some dont like to read it if its not glowing reviews.

On the flip side of the coin we are all FANS no matter how much scouting ability we may have, ANYONE has the right to feel optimistic about moves that might not be popular by the media or our own pre draft evaluations.

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No one should feel like the are being ganged up on in here and if you do go against the grain don't get your feelings hurt but multiple posters disagreeing with your opinion.

Ive tried to prove MY point. Since Ive done that Ive been called "trolling" "Bob" and "snarky" all the while Ive appoligized, said I dont think Im right and they are wrong, said I respect their opinions ect ect. So disagreeing isnt the issue. If your going to come on this board and say TF is my 5th rated Center and make a comment that based off the combine he should go undrafted, then when we draft him in the 1st round and your singing his praises, dont you think that should be questioned? Seems VERY odd to me. Like Ive said, if he would have went to another team in the 3rd round nobody on here would have thought twice about it. Nobody would have been saying WOW what a steal they just got! But since we drafted him hes the greatest thing since sliced bread. I dont get it, but I guess thats just me.

On the flip side of the coin we are all FANS no matter how much scouting ability we may have, ANYONE has the right to feel optimistic about moves that might not be popular by the media or our own pre draft evaluations.
[b]Ive tried to prove MY point. Since Ive done that Ive been called "trolling" "Bob" and "snarky" all the while Ive appoligized, said I dont think Im right and they are wrong, said I respect their opinions ect ect. So disagreeing isnt the issue. If your going to come on this board and say TF is my 5th rated Center and make a comment that based off the combine he should go undrafted, then when we draft him in the 1st round and your singing his praises, dont you think that should be questioned? Seems VERY odd to me.

First off, Witten, don't ever leave. :'(

Pocket, didn't I explain myself a hundred times already? Why is it that odd to change how you feel about a player if you find out more information about him? That's a fundamental part of the entire draft process. Frederick's combine was crap... if players were ONLY based off that, yeah, I bet he would go undrafted. I had him as my 5th highest because I didn't think he was better than Schwenke for a ZBS scheme. I am still a BJones fan and if his foot doesn't hold him back I think he could be one of the best picks of the draft. Cooper is a gem. I think I was too bold on Mady, but maybe the Raiders make something out of him. He intrigues me.

Lastly, those rankings are not related to draft projection AT ALL. It's not about where I think the players will be drafted. It's about how good I think they would be in 3 years. I hope I'm wrong on Frederick, I think I will be. Where they get drafted and the opportunities that they'll receive matters a lot.

Almost every time Jerry Jones speaks about the Cowboys’ roster, it sounds like spin control at this point.

That certainly was the case when he discussed his confidence in the safeties on the Cowboys’ roster during last week’s conference call with season-ticket holders.

“I think we’re in good shape at safety,” Jones said.

Yes, Jones is well aware that the projected starting safeties have a combined four NFL starts. Those are all by Barry Church, who was thought highly enough of at Valley Ranch to receive a four-year, $9 million deal (plus $3.4 million in incentives) after suffering a torn Achilles tendon early last season.
Jones also seems just about ready to put Matt Johnson, who missed all of his rookie season due to hamstring problems and other injuries, in the Ring of Honor.

“I don’t know when I’ve ever seen a player impress our staff without having played in a ballgame any more than Matt Johnson,” Jones gushed.

The Cowboys’ other alternatives at safety: third-round pick J.J. Wilcox, who played offense until his senior year at Georgia Southern; nine-year veteran Will Allen, who didn’t start for the Buccaneers in Monte Kiffin’s last two seasons with Tampa Bay; and three-year vet Danny McCray, who was forced to play enough safety last season to confirm that he’s best suited to stick to special teams.

“I think we’ve really given ourselves a lot of potential,” Jones said. “The coaches told me (with) the scheme, ‘Don’t worry as much about range.’ I said, ‘What? Don’t worry as much about range?’

“(Kiffin) said, ‘No, our scheme gives them the angles. It gives them the angles. Get us somebody that is young. Don’t worry as much about experience as you have in the past. Get us some young players with instincts and let us go from there with them.’”

Believe it or not, that actually passes the smell test, given Kiffin’s Tampa Bay track record.

When Kiffin arrived in Tampa in 1996, the Bucs had precious little experience at safety. Their strong safety had six starts in the previous three seasons of his NFL career. Their free safety started three games as a rookie the previous year.

John Lynch, a third-round pick in 1993, ended up establishing himself as one of the elite strong safeties in NFL history, playing in nine Pro Bowls. The Bucs filled free safety with a handful of mid-round picks and low-priced free agents during Lynch’s Tampa Bay tenure, finishing top 10 in both major defensive categories every year but Lynch’s first full season as a starter, when they were 11th in yards allowed.

Kiffin’s history of making the most out of medium-level investments at safety offers no guarantees, of course. It does, however, provide legitimate proof for those inside Valley Ranch who insist that there’s no need to panic about the Cowboys’ safety situation.

I can appreciate pocket aces opinion. If I'm truthful, I feel the exact same way as he does, and think most of us should. But, the coping mechanisms kick in, the optimism, the slow trickle of supporting journailists, and articles, and it's easy to start to buy into it. I'm at the crossroads, I am pretty disappointed in how the draft played out, and the potential value/fit we should have been able to get instead of what we wound up with. At the same time, I realize that's just my amateur and impressionable thought process that was shaped for months leading up to the draft in the first place.

we got some nice pieces, missed out on a lot of pet cats, and still have major question marks in areas we've been hoping to fix for years now. all thats left is to let things play out. Personally I would have preferred to be excited even for the wrong reasons.

Also I think the trade value issue is so stupid. I understand what you "should" get in a move down, but the reality is an additional 3rd rounder is pretty awesome. How we utilized the pick(s) is another story, but it always is

Bruce Carter says Cowboys' new defense feels natural to him, lets him do 'what got me to this point'

Cowboys linebacker Bruce Carter said everything is back to normal with his arm, and he is eager to get started in a new defense that feels natural to him.

“It just puts us in position, guys like me, Sean, the rest of the linebackers, just to go out there and make plays, just fly around,” he said Wednesday at a charity event in Arlington. “That’s what I did in college. That’s what got me to this point. I feel natural there. I feel comfortable. I’m just going to go out and play ball.”

Carter missed the last five games last year because of a dislocated elbow suffered in the Thanksgiving game.

He said his arm is fine now.

“My arm’s great. Everything’s back to normal,” he said. “I’m back bench-pressing. I’m just ready to go.”

Carter said he has been impressed by new defensive coordinator Monte Kiffin’s enthusiasm.

“He comes into work more excited than we are, sometimes,” Carter said.

But right now, the players are in a learning phase.

“Everything’s going good with the new coaches,” Carter said. “Me, Sean, the rest of the linebacker guys, we’re really absorbing everything he’s trying to tell us. Details, details, details. We’re just trying to do the right thing.”

IRVING, Texas – Evaluating football players in live action can be difficult enough. But seeing how they perform in shorts, jerseys and helmets in their first professional practice is something left up to the coaching staff.

The Cowboys opened the rookie minicamp Friday at Valley Ranch, featuring about 45 players from rookie draft picks, undrafted free agents and selected veterans who were eligible to participate.

Here’s a few quick quotes from the coaches regarding their first impressions.

“Just like we thought coming out of the draft, he’s real smart and intelligent. He can vocalize all the calls and communications and sequences. So that was a real positive note. As I watched him in all the team drills today – how he ID’s the Mike, how he finds the Mike linebacker. He makes the point, he makes all the calls, he puts everybody on the same page. So I’m impressed from that standpoint – day one, just to get out and start talking in front of all these new people and players, with all the coaches and pressure on you. I thought he did pretty good.”

Defensive coordinator Monte Kiffin on returning to the practice field for the first time in three years:

“It’s exciting to be out here again. We’ve got some work to do. But I love the attitude of these young men. They’re here to work and they did a good job. We’ve got something to work with.”

Defensive backs coach Jerome Henderson on third-round pick J.J. Wilcox having one year of experience at safety:

“You see the athleticism. For a big guy, he can really run. He has really good ball skills, and that probably comes from playing with the ball in his hands a lot those other three years in college. You see he’s a physical man, that he likes the physical part of the game. A lot of times when you see offensive guys make the jump, it takes them a little while to figure that part out. That came natural for him. When you watch him play, you’re like, ‘Oh God, he’s going to kill somebody,’ and that’s what I like about the young man.”

Henderson on much far Wilcox has to improve:

“Light years. You have that, coupled with the fact that the league he played in, jumping to this league…one year at the job. Just the adjustment that all rookies have, he’s got a lot to adjust to.”

“He had some good things that stood out, but there’s a lot of things we need to clean up. Obviously I’m very encouraged by the things I know he can do, and some of those things he showed out there. He can catch the ball well. That’s the one thing you notice about him.”

Henderson on being comfortable with safety position:

“Absolutely. We’ve got a really good group. It’s going to be a really competitive camp, I think, with the guys we got back there. I think the exciting thing is there’s an opportunity for somebody to emerge. One of those guys I know is going to go grab that spot and make it his, and again, which guy that is at this point is anybody’s guess. That’s the exciting part about it. The thing I do like, again, is we’ve got some quality guys back there competing. Adding Wilcox to the mix makes it exciting.”

Callahan on the quick turnaround of practices Friday:

“It’s fun for a lot of these guys that come from good college programs. They understand the tempos that you want. They’ve really done an excellent job of banding together, learning all this terminology in one day and then trying to produce some type od execution within 24 hours. So my hat goes off to all these guys.”

Henderson on his early thoughts about fourth-round corner B.W. Webb:

“He’s so competitive. You see that on tape. He won’t back down from anybody. He’s got great ball skills and great knack for being around the ball and playing the ball and going to get the ball. Then when you meet the young man, you see his poise, his confidence, the way he carries himself, and you think this kid’s got a shot. He’s from a smaller school, but you get the sense from him that, ‘This isn’t too big for me. I belong here.”

It's amazing to think that at this point a year ago, there was no certainty that Manziel would be the starting QB for the Aggies in 2012. A gifted improviser in the pocket, Manziel has an ability to extend plays that makes you think of Aaron Rodgers. He utilizes great movement skills and vision to overcome a lack of height, and while he doesn't have a big arm, there's no reason to think he won't continue to build arm strength. He's going to get even better.

Here are some tidbits gleaned from various sources in regards to the ongoing Rookie Mini Camp at Valley Ranch. Lots going on, enjoy.

OC Travis Frederick is bringing his mental A game to camp. He has placed a chip on his shoulder and is planning on proving the Cowboys did not "waste" an early pick on him. "I can prove some people wrong" is a statement making it around the web from his interview. This is the type of attitude you want your guy to bring.

CB B.W. Webb is getting rave reviews from early action. He is smooth and not intimidated. He does watch the QB "a lot" and can lose the receivers location when doing it. Coaches are on it.

TE Escobar can catch. He did drop one pass in his first day. One. As expected he has much to learn in regards to other nuances of the game, but he is smart and showing early ability to block on the backside. He was not asked to do much of it in college. This ability was hoped for. It is "in process". No report of his blocking at the point of attack (yet).

OG Ronald Leary is making his move this year. He has pop and anchor. He is moving well and is competing. Will be keeping a very close eye on this process. Multiple sources are giving positive reports. Could we be getting two (needed) pieces on the OLine this year? How I hope so!

OC Frederick is being described by Coach Garrett and others at camp as having excellent command from the center position. He is making line calls, pointing out defensive lineups (players) and is described as picking up the offense quickly. There seems to be no doubt about his ability to QB the OLine. Hitting the brakes he is also described as being "a long way off". Broaddus pointed out he "may" have blown one assignment. That is a clear step up from the guys that have definitely been blowing assignments along the interior the last few years.

J.J. Wilcox is showing up. He is a guy that is "around the ball". Sure it's practice. But it's the first one and if you can't show it in practice, it probably won't show up in the game. He is being lauded for his ball skills and intelligence. He has a long way to go in coverage, as expected.

UDFA Jakar Hamilton reportedly was also making plays from the safety spot, breaking up some passes and showing improvement from an early session. This are the types of reports you want to be hearing from any rookie, let alone a UDFA.

WR Terrance Williams showed his great physicality beating the press and making plays on the ball, but has a long way (as expected) to go with his route running.

Broaddus was impressed with another UDFA, DT Nick Johnson who made some plays along the interior at the expense of Frederick and Leary. Keep an eye on this guy.

Other players Broaddus has been impressed with that we need to keep an eye on are:

Funny, I was lead to believe that Jimmy Johnson created the Draft Trade Value chart. It was a guy named Mike McCoy who Jerry hired to do the job of creating it.

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Originally the chart McCoy designed was a carefully-guarded trade secret. But coaches, including Jimmy Johnson, eventually left the organization and McCoy’s table began to find its way into war rooms around the NFL.

On our trade:

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These days, McCoy only watches the draft with mild interest. But he paid enough attention to the developments Thursday to arrive at the conclusion that teams looking to move up in the first round, such as the 49ers, were in a better position to get what they wanted.

“San Francisco, in a buyer’s market where everybody else was wanting to trade down, that was a perfect situation for them,” McCoy said.

Jerry Jones, meanwhile, was convinced that Dallas made a “successful trade.”

“It boils down to the right time at the right place, and does it fit you,” Jones said.

And as McCoy is the first to acknowledge, not all of the answers can be found in the chart he created way back when.