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Never Underestimate the power of stock stereo

I was on the lonely 2lane rural highway the goes around Lake Elsinore after midnight the windows rolled down listening to Bryan Ferry on the stock BMW rear speakers.The fronts are blown so Ive got just the stock rear pair going (not exactly boomin' profane hip-hop normally associated with likely offenders) and passed by a Sheriffs patrol car parked on the other side of the street.

They sat there till I got about 1/4 mile away before storming up to me then following 1 car length away with the brights on. They stayed like that for about a mile before redlghting me.So I stopped made exit arms out, back to them....all these orders ironically barked out their bullhorn atop their car.

"I was only going 42mph MAX".I protested as I walked backwards to them not looking at theem -as ordered.

"No sir you are being cited with LOUD MUSIC"

"on an open hwy at Midnight?" I was floored

Then he asked if I had drugs or weapons in my car.I assured him I did not.

He asked if I would mind if they had a look, I said I rather not. "So This Is a REFUSAL?".he yells.

"No I simply don't want to give up my 4th amendment rights and don't want my new car molested.It was 9/11 just yesterday"

At this point he stuck me in the squad car for about 40min while they went all through every nook n cranny, dinking the mounting tabs on the trunk carpet panels and cracking my euro emergency triangle.He found absolutely nothing and gave me the bogus LOUD MUSIC ticket anyway.

That LOUD MUSIC ticket was a big ruse on the Sheriffs part for an easy excuse to gain Probable Cause.The criteria for this law is if you can hear music from 50feet away from the vehicle, you are in violation That's it.

No decibel reading.nothing but the cop saying LOUD MUSIC
nothing to prove in court

Funny the law states specifically loud "music" .So I guess if you were crankin talk radio, religious programming or just random sound effects and cartoon noises you'd be good to go

Not a point violation more like a seatbelt ticket.Still it'll likely be $75-100bucks.Not something I should have to pay

Has anyone else got one of these stupid tickets?
<b><I>SirTweakAlot</i></b>

Do you think he would have given you a ticket if..

you would have granted him access to search your vehicle? Just wondering if that just POed him, so he gave you a ticket just to show his anger (and his dominance over "common" citizens?

Vox Day recently had a good editorial on police abuse - mentioning the LVPD tazing & gunning down a concealed carry person while he was shopping in Costco. The man also never drew his weapon, nor provoked the police in any type of threatening manner.

Okay to refuse.

Alan,
One of my son's friend's got pulled over for speeding. Cop asked if he could search the car, the friend said "Okay".
They found a pistol, some perscription drugs that didn't have his name, and an inoperative right signal light. The friend got fines for several hundred dollars.

My son told him, in the future, say no. CLEARLY say NO.
In your case, the officer intimidated you.
He Yelled: "Is this a REFUSAL?", and you said "No, blah, blah, blah(it doesn't matter what you say after you said NO) which means "Yes, search my car."

Your presumption of probable cause is probably incorrect.
Based on your story, you folded under pressure.

You're old enough to know that you can get a speeding ticket in any car. You also know you can get a ticket for playing your music too loud. (At your age, why are you cranking the radio around MIDNIGHT??? WTF? I'm a grandfather, and you're OLDER than me!!) You put yourself at risk, and badmouth the cops. maybe the cops deserve some heat, but someone else started it.
Own up to your screw up.

Re: Cheers for Bryan Ferry...a great one for sure!

Nope, your wrong, it was always a no

In California we have an implied consent law which means by applying for and using a Ca Drivers license you are consenting to a field sobriety test if directed to by an officer of the law.Failure to do THAT is considered a REFUSAL and is an arrestable offense in an of itself.

I did not fold under pressure, quite the opposite.This jerk was trying to use semantics to scare a less informed person into thinking they have some right to search.

I called him on it. You have a right NOT to be searched .Consenting to a search you give up those rights and can be searched as much as they want from then on.

I made sure he knew I was aware of the fact that the only way he can legally search is if I give up my 4th amendment rights.I am not giving those up & you DON"T my permission to do search. In court his attempt to weasel on recognizing my rights will be the fact that he detained me in his vehicle.effectively putting me in custody.Had he found anything it wouldn't have been admissible in court anyway.I could not have been clearer he just tried to get around <b><I>SirTweakAlot</i></b>

Perhaps I'm misinformed

but I thought that the 4th was a bit of a gray area relative to cars/drivers - police having the ability to search given probable cause in order to "protect the greater good," with "refusal" giving a cascading effect to ending up as described (or similar). I'm not saying who's in the "right" here - personally think the cops were jerks in this case - but was of the understanding that this is just how things are...

Re: Cheers for Bryan Ferry...a great one for sure!

Were you Blasting the song "Love is the Drug"? Lake Elsinore is a big Methamphetamine production and salesa area. Maybe the officer was set off by the lyrics to the song. LOL Just my silly opinion.

T'ain't no big t'ing
to wait for the bell to ring
T'ain't no big t'ing
The toll of the bell

Aggravated - spare for days
I troll downtown the red light place

Jump up bubble up - what's in store
Love is the drug and I need to score

Showing out, showing out, hit and run
Boys meet girl, where the beat goes on
Stitched up tight, can't shake free
Love is the drug, got a hook on me

Oh oh catch that buzz
Love is the drug I'm thinking of
Oh oh can't you see
Love is the drug for me

Late that night I park my car
Stake my place in the singles bar
Face to face, toe to toe
Heart to heart as we hit the floor
Lumber up limbo down
The locked embrace, the stumble round
I say go, she say yes
Dim the lights, you can guess the rest

Oh oh catch that buzz
Love is the drug I'm thinking of
Oh oh can't you see
Love is the drug got a hook in me

Oh oh catch that buzz
Love is the drug I'm thinking of
Oh oh can't you see
Love is the drug for me

The Black n' Whites engineer the Grey area

The 4th is by no means ironclad . In the past....and there have several times I've had cops chomping at the bit to search my car. It seems like letting cops know in a polite fashion you have a pretty good knowledge of law makes things go a lot smoother and in your favor.

I know more than one instance where saying ,"go ahead I got nothing to hide" to the old"Mind if I have a look" led to torn open upholstery.

But then,yelling, "No Way F-ing Pig!,,,Attica!!...Attica!!" is unlikely to bring desired results either

Your demeanor accounts for a lot. Which makes this ticket seem all the more deplorable.<b><I>SirTweakAlot</i></b>

I have a problem with your pullover

Ok, I don't talk, on this board but I gotta say something. I understand you don't get pulled over often, or ever I'm guessing. Take it from someone who has.

First and only problem with your story. The officer buzzed up behind you with the brights on, you knew it was him, why didn't you stop? You didn't think you were in the wrong and were just driving within the speed limit doing your own thing. But, seriously, what did YOU think was going to happen??

ANYCAR that brights and rides my bumper gets a "pass-go-by" or a "stop and talking to", they obviously want to talk. In the case of the officer being there I would have pulled over immediately. I'm sure by the time the red lights went on the officer was pissed. You just weren't thinking like he was thinking, unfortunately you pay the penalty, just know, it could be worse. Should I bring up the Don't tase me bro story?

How did you know I was wearing a pullover

You don't think I get pulled over much? Dude, I am a virtual cop magnet. This LOUD MUSIC fuster cluck makes it 4 tickets since my 82mph in a 65 on my Triumph in June. The 1st appearance date for that onr isn't even till Oct19 and now Ive got THREE more to deal with. If I pulled over in advance everytime a cop was riding my butt
I don't think Id ever get anywhere.<b><I>SirTweakAlot</i></b>

Sue.

Seriously. Find some ACLU lawyer looking to make a name, and at the very least make them supply probable cause. If they can't manufacture anything go for a personal suit under the "color of authority" part of US Code. (42 U.S.C. §1983)

As it sounds, they are cold in the wrong, went on a fishing expedition, and came up dry.

Sounds to me like you have a new hobby. :)
Pacific Sharkfest '02 '03 '05 Veteran
Original Owner

Action -- reaction

It's a great point - except in order fight effectivly you have to be an attorney with that kind of experience, or hire one.
Unfortunately, to hire a lawyer can easily cost more than the sum of the tickets, and it's no assurance of winning.
ACLU -- is a path, but I'll bet they have more important issues than fighting a loud music traffic ticket.

So Alan, although we're rooting for you, the realistic outcome is to BEND OVER and take it like a man.

I've seen ACLU take a lot dumber...

Besides, the loud music thing is just the hook they hung this on.. the real case is not far from the stink they made over "consent searches" and a lot more winable. I doubt they want to see the work they put into 4th amendment cases made this irrelevant, OR wait till the case that's do or die is more vague. I'd give them a call or two..

If it comes down to hiring your own guy, not on contingency, THEN you can bend over. Even then I'd fire a complaint letter off to their Chief and a copy to the DA.
Pacific Sharkfest '02 '03 '05 Veteran
Original Owner