Yeah because they have been dead for a few years now already- For this to be the "death" of MMOs you would first have to resurect MMOs which would possibly spawn a religion...Imagine what THOSE fanboys would be like. =P

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I really wouldn't hype darkfall uw, just because of how hyped darkfall was. I mean would you be hyped up on warhammer online 2? ;)

Also, on a side note, i doubt MMO's are going any time soon. If something drastic does happen, it will be a lack of demand for them and current ones will close up and a few polished one will retain a degree of players. Then what will happen is the current generation of players will make an independant developement team to make a MMO people want to play, sort of like a resurgence of the late 90's. Then those companies will continue to grow, and then big names will jump back in and water down the scene again. Everything works in cycles!

Even that is shakey, because while I do think we are finnally seeing a drop off of huge AAA MMO releases after GW2, we still have Titan neverwinter, and, ESO. What might happen is the devs will cut back on funding to make them, leveling the playing field for said independant devs to have a shot at it, who knows it could happen! (the war z, I is looking at you to be the start of this!)

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You mean static world and quest themepark MMOs are dead? New ones, yes. Old ones, no.

Honestly I'm not sure what you mean by that. Which ones are still alive? Because the ones I liked are dead and they are from a long time ago. Yes, people still play them. Are they the same games? No

I have to agree. Even WoW has changed to the point that it doesn't even resemble the game it was in 2004. EQ, DAOC, UO, Lineage II and many more older games have been transformed into shadows of their former selves because they have been "Modernized" over the years. The only game that has been really true to it's core principals throughout the years is EVE Online but it's not the type of game for everyone. Pretty much every pre-2005 game has been changed so drastically that they bear little resemblence to what they were originally. I've tried going back to some of the MMOs of the past that I loved but what they've become just makes me die a little inside each time I log in.

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Originally posted by AeliousIll bump your promo because I applaud the grassroots effort.

There are still deep MMOs out there worth playing, look at EQ2.

this nostalgia for "the good ol' days of MMOs" is ridiculous. i've played since m59 and while i have a faint feeling of nostalgia, for my first days raiding and pvp'ing, there is just no way those game can compare to today's MMO's. its just this human psychology to somehow think that things were better in the past and what is new is inferior or doesnt match what i've grown up with. resistance to change. gone are the timesinks, gone is the buggy AI, gone is the 8bit meshes. today we have greater tools for community, for guild's, servers are larger and games far more "massive". combat has evolved and storytelling much more of a priority.

and EQ2? deep MMO? lol what a horribad trainwreck of badness. the class system was designed by a monkey. not to mention about 90% of the 12092109210 skills you have, and 5 of the 6 hotbars on your screen, are redundant and absolutely unnecessary because the dungeons are AE facerolls. group dynamics? need for CC? debuffing? rofl no. get a tank, pull entire rooms of mobs and spam a heal. EQ2 has more in common with Diablo2 than it does EQ1. raids? omfg bad. and boring. and scratch your head wtf moments from invisible AEs. 99% of the game is solo content. and grind? ya you better get ready to grind AA. have fun doing repeated Dailies.... more than even in WoW. Lore? welcome to the most generic cut and paste storylines; even now their trying to keep the cash cows happy by releasing Sleepers Tomb (again). oh by deep you mean housing instances and crafting minigames? mmm ok. and the engine performance ... holy fuk bad. and the management of that game is just a travesty - get ready to have PAID expansions crammed down your throat before even 1% of the playerbase can complete even a PORTION of the current high end raids.

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The last great MMORPG?

It has never been made.

It has no levels. It is free to play and it has a cash shop.

Developer makes a huge seamless empty world. The world is totally devoid of cities, buildings/structures dungeons NPC, Monsters, quests or anything other than a basic creatures and plants. The basic creatures are limited in population and only exist in areas they would be normally found. The developer has pre defined the areas and set the spawn points so the creatures will populate based on their number and behavior. example – wolves are predators therefore they hunt for food. Rabbits eat veggies and so on.

All content is player generated.

The world terrain is preset and has a basic texture design with flora and trees but still can be modified. The terra forming tools will allow making adjustments to the basic design but not drastic unrealistic changes that are glaring eyesores. The terrain rule is that the terrain has to conform to a realistic expectation for the world theme, extreme glaring designs, sexual objects from terrain or vulgar designs will not be allowed. The developer can over ride any designs and reset the terrain if the rule is violated.

The player can own a section of the world on a first come first server basis which they BUY from the developer as a claim in the world. They get a basic tent, campfire and a starter kit to build their buildings and form their land. The basic kit contains enough tools to allow a varied design but not a deviation from a theme (any theme that the developers has decided, science fiction, high fantasy to medieval. The ENTIRE world is based on one theme). In order to USE the kit they have to submit so much wood, stone and dirt that they have harvested from their land or public lands. The amounts are based on a realistic number so the character can build anything from a small hut to a giant castle including bridges and roads they can place the objects they make anywhere on their land but they have to make adjoining land match at the boundary. The player can sell their buildings they make to anyone and the developer gets a percentage for maintaining the world. The player can sell their services to terraforming landscape and so on in the market board on the website also.

The characters of the world are basic models with basic clothes for appearance and basic armor basic armor is not changed except though modifiers which will be based on which creature they were acquired from or which spell was cast by what an enchanter had designed which is based on a set finite table the developer would allow. All spells, combat arts are submitted for approval. The basic character is made in a external program by the player and had no limits other than the sliders of the external program BUT only if the player has bought a character right can they modify the basic model. Players make their own animations which they can sell to others. The program takes the basic model and does morphs to the mesh so everyone sees your avatar as you have made it. Any animation is allowed but some will marked house only under the clean art rule stated in land design. The limitation is endless because you could make different races and different variations of the race/sex anyway you want but you are only allow ONE character in the world.

The character also gets to select a profession. Based on this profession they get access to an external program to make appearance items. The external program allows you to make appearance items which the character can sell to other characters but all characters can see the appearance item (appearance items include clothing of any type, weapons, bows, siege equipment and so on or anything the player would equip or use. Rule is that the item created would need to be in the profession the character picked. The item must comform to the world theme The limitation is that the character MUST harvest items in the world to make it based on its properties. Again there will be house only appearance items which may be offensive these items a character can only wear in their house Including nudity.

The players are allowed to make their own NPCs, quests, Buildings,Dungeons but everyone can use them as these are all public areas. These are approved based on design, content and difficulty which is per defined by the developer.

One section of the public areas is deemed PvP where player could attack anyone but outside this area there is no PvP allowed at all except sport duels or arenas which are open public areas that can be seen by anyone. There are no closed areas in this world except the players house which has privileges.

Developer makes a simple interface of 10 hotkeys and a simple chat system for local chat. Players make any other chat rooms and have to maintain them. The interface could be modified but not the world predefined functionality.

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You mean static world and quest themepark MMOs are dead? New ones, yes. Old ones, no.

Honestly I'm not sure what you mean by that. Which ones are still alive? Because the ones I liked are dead and they are from a long time ago. Yes, people still play them. Are they the same games? No

You wrote this (sorry, I was on my phone at the time):

Originally posted by Magiknight

Originally posted by worldalpha

Originally posted by -Zeno-

/snip

I think it is a little early to be calling for the death of MMOs.

MMOs are already dead. Only the shadow of them remain, ie WoW, The Secret World, LOTR, FFXIV, etc

So what you meant was the MMOs you like are dead? I took "MMOs" to be all encompasing and was pointing out that the genre is not dead but the same design of "zone 1, quest, level, level" designed games are probably dead as in not getting made much from here on out. The pendelum swings. With the unfortunate turn of events this year we may see a return of the old school feel. Call it retro, we'll see.

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Originally posted by AeliousIll bump your promo because I applaud the grassroots effort.

There are still deep MMOs out there worth playing, look at EQ2.

this nostalgia for "the good ol' days of MMOs" is ridiculous. i've played since m59 and while i have a faint feeling of nostalgia, for my first days raiding and pvp'ing, there is just no way those game can compare to today's MMO's. its just this human psychology to somehow think that things were better in the past and what is new is inferior or doesnt match what i've grown up with. resistance to change. gone are the timesinks, gone is the buggy AI, gone is the 8bit meshes. today we have greater tools for community, for guild's, servers are larger and games far more "massive". combat has evolved and storytelling much more of a priority.

and EQ2? deep MMO? lol what a horribad trainwreck of badness. the class system was designed by a monkey. not to mention about 90% of the 12092109210 skills you have, and 5 of the 6 hotbars on your screen, are redundant and absolutely unnecessary because the dungeons are AE facerolls. group dynamics? need for CC? debuffing? rofl no. get a tank, pull entire rooms of mobs and spam a heal. EQ2 has more in common with Diablo2 than it does EQ1. raids? omfg bad. and boring. and scratch your head wtf moments from invisible AEs. 99% of the game is solo content. and grind? ya you better get ready to grind AA. have fun doing repeated Dailies.... more than even in WoW. Lore? welcome to the most generic cut and paste storylines; even now their trying to keep the cash cows happy by releasing Sleepers Tomb (again). oh by deep you mean housing instances and crafting minigames? mmm ok. and the engine performance ... holy fuk bad. and the management of that game is just a travesty - get ready to have PAID expansions crammed down your throat before even 1% of the playerbase can complete even a PORTION of the current high end raids.

yep the good ol days.. rofl fuck that

Okay Dr. answer me this. If the "current" design of MMOs is so much better than in the past then why are they failing left and right minus two titles? Greater tools for community? Really? I agree with you but too bad the design for the rest of the game makes the tools near useless. More massive? Actually the world maps have gotten smaller in some sort of digital dehydration synthesis. Could you really compare the combined maps of EQ with that of Aion or Swtor? The world is no longer a "world" but a molded park where every step is taken into account and "gone are the timesinks". I agree that combat and storytelling and combat has evolved, evolved to where that's all that's important and your "story" is the same one as everyone elses.

I agree with you that with the technology we have better games can be made, they just haven't been making very good ones trying to reach the WoW mountain IMO. It's not being nostalgic or asking for corpse runs again. It's about making a game and a world that people actually want to stay in, not level through. Don't look now but companies also want that so, hopefully, they've gotten the memo: "WoW clones =/= WoW money". Make a game that matters over years and you'll be sucessful.

Your earlier comments completely explain your rant on EQ2. Yes I was referring to the whole game, not just combat which is what makes EQ2 so special. It has a ton of dungeons, content and story driven raids but it also has a lot meaningful things OUTSIDE of combat.

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Originally posted by AeliousIll bump your promo because I applaud the grassroots effort.

There are still deep MMOs out there worth playing, look at EQ2.

this nostalgia for "the good ol' days of MMOs" is ridiculous. i've played since m59 and while i have a faint feeling of nostalgia, for my first days raiding and pvp'ing, there is just no way those game can compare to today's MMO's. its just this human psychology to somehow think that things were better in the past and what is new is inferior or doesnt match what i've grown up with. resistance to change. gone are the timesinks, gone is the buggy AI, gone is the 8bit meshes.today we have greater tools for community, for guild's, servers are larger and games far more "massive". combat has evolved and storytelling much more of a priority.

and EQ2? deep MMO? lol what a horribad trainwreck of badness. the class system was designed by a monkey. not to mention about 90% of the 12092109210 skills you have, and 5 of the 6 hotbars on your screen, are redundant and absolutely unnecessary because the dungeons are AE facerolls. group dynamics? need for CC? debuffing? rofl no. get a tank, pull entire rooms of mobs and spam a heal. EQ2 has more in common with Diablo2 than it does EQ1. raids? omfg bad. and boring. and scratch your head wtf moments from invisible AEs. 99% of the game is solo content. and grind? ya you better get ready to grind AA. have fun doing repeated Dailies.... more than even in WoW. Lore? welcome to the most generic cut and paste storylines; even now their trying to keep the cash cows happy by releasing Sleepers Tomb (again). oh by deep you mean housing instances and crafting minigames? mmm ok. and the engine performance ... holy fuk bad. and the management of that game is just a travesty - get ready to have PAID expansions crammed down your throat before even 1% of the playerbase can complete even a PORTION of the current high end raids.

yep the good ol days.. rofl fuck that

This guy thinks that new things are automatically better than old things. Progress is inevitable......believe that if you want. Just because something is new does not mean it is better. The people of today certainly don't have the nerves to live in many time periods of the past but they sure can navigate their war around Microsoft Office.

The "greater tools for community" you speak of actually obliterate community. Being able to group with anyone and everyone as easily as possible destorys all feeling of distance and meaning between different characters. The larger servers are being used to create instances of every zone you go into. Once that happens then the entire idea of a persistant world goes away. Everytime you go into a zone it could be a different instance. "Evolved combat" simply means I can do anything and everything in a fight including healing, damage, tanking, and jumping around. The story telling of SWTOR just makes me sad.

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Reehay

So you don't like EQ2 because of the player models? That's the only bit of actual criticism you offered other than to say it's not the natural successor to EQ, which I agree with. I'm not sure what you assumed I meant by deep but there are more varied activities and content to go through In EQ2 than many other MMOs out there, successor or not. That's what i mean by deep. Vanguard is closer the EQ successor but lacks in a lot of places as compared to EQ2 IMO.

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Originally posted by AeliousIll bump your promo because I applaud the grassroots effort.

There are still deep MMOs out there worth playing, look at EQ2.

this nostalgia for "the good ol' days of MMOs" is ridiculous. i've played since m59 and while i have a faint feeling of nostalgia, for my first days raiding and pvp'ing, there is just no way those game can compare to today's MMO's. its just this human psychology to somehow think that things were better in the past and what is new is inferior or doesnt match what i've grown up with. resistance to change. gone are the timesinks, gone is the buggy AI, gone is the 8bit meshes. today we have greater tools for community, for guild's, servers are larger and games far more "massive". combat has evolved and storytelling much more of a priority.

and EQ2? deep MMO? lol what a horribad trainwreck of badness. the class system was designed by a monkey. not to mention about 90% of the 12092109210 skills you have, and 5 of the 6 hotbars on your screen, are redundant and absolutely unnecessary because the dungeons are AE facerolls. group dynamics? need for CC? debuffing? rofl no. get a tank, pull entire rooms of mobs and spam a heal. EQ2 has more in common with Diablo2 than it does EQ1. raids? omfg bad. and boring. and scratch your head wtf moments from invisible AEs. 99% of the game is solo content. and grind? ya you better get ready to grind AA. have fun doing repeated Dailies.... more than even in WoW. Lore? welcome to the most generic cut and paste storylines; even now their trying to keep the cash cows happy by releasing Sleepers Tomb (again). oh by deep you mean housing instances and crafting minigames? mmm ok. and the engine performance ... holy fuk bad. and the management of that game is just a travesty - get ready to have PAID expansions crammed down your throat before even 1% of the playerbase can complete even a PORTION of the current high end raids.

yep the good ol dayI'ves.. rofl fuck that

You got it all wrong Thefounder,

It's not about nostalga.

It's not about " the good ol' days.

It's about auto group features, cintamatic videos and personal stories, and very easy mode. This takes away from comunities. NOTHING WRONG WITH ADDING FEATURES, BUT THE ONES THEY ARE ADDING ARE CRAP !....Why log in after 30 days if the mmo is really a solo game with others on the screen !!!!!

I'm still enjoyig GW2, I belong to a very popular guild, but the guild really has no reasion to exist in a so called mmo like this. It's silent ever since everyone learned all the features, and just a little grouping for WvW, but not much.

Thefounder...I'm not sure if your playing GW2 or not. But what ever newer mmo you are playing, can you tell me that you would have a reason to continue playing it after you learn all the features six months down the road ?

An mmo is about surviving is a hard land with others. AND THE ONLY WAY TO HAVE THIS IS WITH AN OLDER MMO.....But most went F2P. So now there is nothing at all.

- No reason to make friends

- No reason to join a Guild

- No reasonreason to have a friends list

Why play GW2 after November, December or January, when you know everything about the game and played each class that intrigues you. Then again your more open minded and not resistant to change....So I guess you will be playing a game like GW2 five months down the pipe :)