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Some of these roster moves really have me shocked and confused. I really can't understand the receiver cuts, the position went from an area of strength to an area of weakness. Lloyd and Welker are excellent receivers, but that's all we have now, Edelman and Slater are not good receivers. They are good special teams players, but no matter how brilliant Belichick is, you could never in a million years convince me that Edelman and Slater are better receivers than Gaffney, Branch and Stallworth. Just a bizzare, frustrating and strange move to not keep at least one of them. Huge weakness now.

Now we get to Jeff Demps, why the **** even sign him, I mean really ? Unless he blew the **** out his kneecap, why the hell IR him, what's the point ? Just makes no ******* sense. The fans who were cursing the Pats for getting Demps, are probably laughing their asses off. Why did we sign him ? Our return game is back to being a weakness, same sad ****ty returners Edelman and Woodhead. I wish we never ******* signed Demps. Great move signing him, incredibly weird move IR'ing him, what a ******* waste of time. Just saw him interviewed the other night saying he felt good out there and felt like he was progressing. Strangest move ever.

Overall, I look at this roster, and I don't see a dominant team, don't see a great team, I see huge weaknesses at WR, Return Team, O-line and RB. Will be rooting for this team like crazy as always, but as the team is constructed right now, I see a team most likely that won't get out of the first round. Very frustrating 72 hours, just weird moves to make the team weaker.

Some of these roster moves really have me shocked and confused. I really can't understand the receiver cuts, the position went from an area of strength to an area of weakness. Lloyd and Welker are excellent receivers, but that's all we have now, Edelman and Slater are not good receivers. They are good special teams players, but no matter how brilliant Belichick is, you could never in a million years convince me that Edelman and Slater are better receivers than Gaffney, Branch and Stallworth. Just a bizzare, frustrating and strange move to not keep at least one of them. Huge weakness now.

Now we get to Jeff Demps, why the **** even sign him, I mean really ? Unless he blew the **** out his kneecap, why the hell IR him, what's the point ? Just makes no ******* sense. The fans who were cursing the Pats for getting Demps, are probably laughing their asses off. Why did we sign him ? Our return game is back to being a weakness, same sad ****ty returners Edelman and Woodhead. I wish we never ******* signed Demps. Great move signing him, incredibly weird move IR'ing him, what a ******* waste of time. Just saw him interviewed the other night saying he felt good out there and felt like he was progressing. Strangest move ever.

Overall, I look at this roster, and I don't see a dominant team, don't see a great team, I see huge weaknesses at WR, Return Team, O-line and RB. Will be rooting for this team like crazy as always, but as the team is constructed right now, I see a team most likely that won't get out of the first round. Very frustrating 72 hours, just weird moves to make the team weaker.

I hope I'm wrong, but some of these moves seem devastatingly brutal.

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Let's wait and see how this all shakes out.

The WR's could very well just be roster manipulation. For some reason I don't think BB is an idiot.

They haven't had their starting OL for a single series. Koppen going obviously moves Connelly back to C and is a good indication that Waters is coming back.

Seabass is a huge upgrade over Cannon, Waters is an upgrade over every guard, Connelly is a huge upgrade over Koppen.

Demps had no off-season. I can't say that I'm shocked by that turn of events.

I think Ridley is an every down back with a real OL and it seems to usually be the most easily upgraded position.

Now we get to Jeff Demps, why the **** even sign him, I mean really ? Unless he blew the **** out his kneecap, why the hell IR him, what's the point ? Just makes no ******* sense. The fans who were cursing the Pats for getting Demps, are probably laughing their asses off. Why did we sign him ? Our return game is back to being a weakness, same sad ****ty returners Edelman and Woodhead. I wish we never ******* signed Demps. Great move signing him, incredibly weird move IR'ing him, what a ******* waste of time. Just saw him interviewed the other night saying he felt good out there and felt like he was progressing. Strangest move ever.

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Because he has an injury, still needs to bulk up some more, and is probably on about page 2 of the playbook?

anyone who even considers slater a wide receiver is kidding themselves. I think he may have 1 catch in his NFL career and I'm not sure if he even ever played wide receiver for a B rate Pac 10 team. The point is, there is little emphasize for this offense on traditional wide receivers, beyond Lloyd, the team has none.

after what happened last year with two mediocre but serviceable safeties being cut/traded and being replaced by complete hacks, I'm not sure anything BB does really surprises me.

The o-line is a concern but expect Waters or a good soon-to-be-cut lineman from another team playing full time by the end of September.

Some of these roster moves really have me shocked and confused. I really can't understand the receiver cuts, the position went from an area of strength to an area of weakness. Lloyd and Welker are excellent receivers, but that's all we have now, Edelman and Slater are not good receivers. They are good special teams players, but no matter how brilliant Belichick is, you could never in a million years convince me that Edelman and Slater are better receivers than Gaffney, Branch and Stallworth. Just a bizzare, frustrating and strange move to not keep at least one of them. Huge weakness now.

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If Belichick can't convince you by way of his roster moves then I sure as heck won't be able to do so.

Not really sure why you are so concerned about the caliber of this teams #5 and #6 receiving options and calling it a "huge weakness". Name me any NFL team that doesn't have ? at their #5 and #6 receiving spots?

On the contrary, no team in the NFL has a better group of 4 receivers than do the Pats. And it may not even be close.

Now we get to Jeff Demps, why the **** even sign him, I mean really ? Unless he blew the **** out his kneecap, why the hell IR him, what's the point ? Just makes no ******* sense. The fans who were cursing the Pats for getting Demps, are probably laughing their asses off. Why did we sign him ? Our return game is back to being a weakness, same sad ****ty returners Edelman and Woodhead. I wish we never ******* signed Demps. Great move signing him, incredibly weird move IR'ing him, what a ******* waste of time. Just saw him interviewed the other night saying he felt good out there and felt like he was progressing. Strangest move ever.

Overall, I look at this roster, and I don't see a dominant team, don't see a great team, I see huge weaknesses at WR, Return Team, O-line and RB. Will be rooting for this team like crazy as always, but as the team is constructed right now, I see a team most likely that won't get out of the first round. Very frustrating 72 hours, just weird moves to make the team weaker.

I hope I'm wrong, but some of these moves seem devastatingly brutal.

Click to expand...

So many people look at NFL roster's and wonder why a team would enter into a season with ?. The reality is every team has a $ limit which restricts who they can carry. They are further restricted due to the fact that they can only play a limited number of these players come game day. What this translates to is a roster that has holes in it. It's like this for the Pats as it is for every other team in the NFL.

Some of these roster moves really have me shocked and confused. I really can't understand the receiver cuts, the position went from an area of strength to an area of weakness. Lloyd and Welker are excellent receivers, but that's all we have now, Edelman and Slater are not good receivers. They are good special teams players, but no matter how brilliant Belichick is, you could never in a million years convince me that Edelman and Slater are better receivers than Gaffney, Branch and Stallworth. Just a bizzare, frustrating and strange move to not keep at least one of them. Huge weakness now.

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It's only bizarre and frustrating if you are living in the past, which you clearly are. The system the Pats are running is based off a 2 TE set. NOT a 2WR set. So, the Pats need more TEs than WRs. And, contrary to your rant, Edelman is actually a pretty good receiver.

As for convincing you of anything, it's clear that your mind is made up because of your vast years of NFL experience as a HC and GM. Of course, you ignore the fact that Gaffney has been injured. That Branch and Stallworth both were frustrating in that they were barely getting separation against teams 2nd and 3rd string CBs. Whereas Edelman was actually getting open against 1st string CBs.

Now we get to Jeff Demps, why the **** even sign him, I mean really ? Unless he blew the **** out his kneecap, why the hell IR him, what's the point ? Just makes no ******* sense. The fans who were cursing the Pats for getting Demps, are probably laughing their asses off. Why did we sign him ? Our return game is back to being a weakness, same sad ****ty returners Edelman and Woodhead. I wish we never ******* signed Demps. Great move signing him, incredibly weird move IR'ing him, what a ******* waste of time. Just saw him interviewed the other night saying he felt good out there and felt like he was progressing. Strangest move ever.

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Why sign Demps? Because he's a FAST football player with great moves. Why IR him? Because he's got a serious knee injury. Maybe if you stayed up to date on the team instead of over-reacting and running around like Chicken-Little, you would understand that. Injuries happy. Belichick doesn't have ESP much as some people would like to think that he does. How could he have predicted that Demps would suffer the knee injury? The only reason it's "strange" is because you decided to react without knowing the whole story.

Edelman and Woodhead aren't bad returners. The blocking on kick-offs has been brutal for the Pats.. You'd know that if you actually watched them instead of getting up to go the bathroom when they are going on.. That's the only thing I can imagine you're doing based on your pathetic reaction.

Overall, I look at this roster, and I don't see a dominant team, don't see a great team, I see huge weaknesses at WR, Return Team, O-line and RB. Will be rooting for this team like crazy as always, but as the team is constructed right now, I see a team most likely that won't get out of the first round. Very frustrating 72 hours, just weird moves to make the team weaker.

I hope I'm wrong, but some of these moves seem devastatingly brutal.

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You are wrong. What is devastatingly brutal is your clear over-reaction in this thread. RB isn't a weakness. Neither is the O-line. You also seem to be missing the fact that the roster isn't set yet. They are only at 52 players and there are going to be more moves coming.

Don't do anyone any favors by rooting for the team. It's clear you don't really believe in them. Why waste your time?

...Overall, I look at this roster, and I don't see a dominant team, don't see a great team, I see huge weaknesses at WR, Return Team, O-line and RB. Will be rooting for this team like crazy as always, but as the team is constructed right now, I see a team most likely that won't get out of the first round. Very frustrating 72 hours, just weird moves to make the team weaker...

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I think you have valid concerns, although I don't necessarily agree with the specifics you've mentioned. The O-line certainly still has question marks, and the loss of Demps means that Kickoffs are still an area that needs work.

On the other hand, the defense showed some legitimate signs of having the pieces in place for a pretty significant improvement:

1.) Gregory doesn't have to be good to be a major upgrade over last year's safeties. Serviceable is all that's needed to do that, and he seems to be at least that.

2.) Dowling is back, which should improve the CBs.

3.) McCourty has looked better than he did last year.

4.) While I don't think the 4-3 is what they're best suited for, the trio of Mayo/Spikes/Hightower should be a great run stopping trio.

5.) Jones looks as if he can help lessen the blow of losing Carter/Anderson.

As of right now, I'd have to agree with someone who argued that the offense has probably taken a step back from last year, instead of the step forward we thought it was going to be taking back in April. Fortunately, I'd also say that the defense has probably taken multiple steps forward. Is the team dominant? It's too soon to tell, IMO, but they've at least got a chance.

We seem to be emphasizing our Defensive players, for now. They get additional time to gel/be examined. We also get to keep Dennard or Moore or Coles and Francis longer (to basically extend camp). I think we acquire or resign another WR eventually. Branch is depth, not a weapon.

To recap, the state of our Defense outways the depth of the Offense, for now.

We seem to be emphasizing our Defensive players, for now. They get additional time to gel/be examined. We also get to keep Dennard or Moore or Coles and Francis longer (to basically extend camp). I think we acquire or resign another WR eventually. Branch is depth, not a weapon.

To recap, the state of our Defense outways the depth of the Offense, for now.

Originally Posted by scott99
Overall, I look at this roster, and I don't see a dominant team, don't see a great team, I see huge weaknesses at WR, Return Team, O-line and RB. Will be rooting for this team like crazy as always, but as the team is constructed right now, I see a team most likely that won't get out of the first round. Very frustrating 72 hours, just weird moves to make the team weaker.

I hope I'm wrong, but some of these moves seem devastatingly brutal.

Click to expand...

So the roster that BB has looks different than what you envisioned so your worried? Id be worried if the roster looked the way you did rather than BB, he knows a bit more than the rest of us.

Some of these roster moves really have me shocked and confused. I really can't understand the receiver cuts, the position went from an area of strength to an area of weakness. Lloyd and Welker are excellent receivers, but that's all we have now, Edelman and Slater are not good receivers. They are good special teams players, but no matter how brilliant Belichick is, you could never in a million years convince me that Edelman and Slater are better receivers than Gaffney, Branch and Stallworth. Just a bizzare, frustrating and strange move to not keep at least one of them. Huge weakness now.

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Hernandez played as WR 70 percent of the time last year. With the addition of Fells and Shiancoe, Hernandez can increase his role as a WR while allowing NE to still run 2 TE sets.

Also don't rule out Gaffney, could be back once he gets over his injury.

Remember they didn't have a WR of Lloyd's ability last year. Now on top of that they added a blocking TE who is good for a first down per catch (Fells averaged a 13.5 yards a catch in Denver's offense last year) and Schiancoe who has been pretty decent the last 5 seasons with the likes of Tavaris Jackson, Gus Frerotte, Christian Ponder, Joe Webb and Sage Rosenfels as his QB and pretty good when Favre was the QB.

Some of these roster moves really have me shocked and confused. I really can't understand the receiver cuts, the position went from an area of strength to an area of weakness. Lloyd and Welker are excellent receivers, but that's all we have now, Edelman and Slater are not good receivers. They are good special teams players, but no matter how brilliant Belichick is, you could never in a million years convince me that Edelman and Slater are better receivers than Gaffney, Branch and Stallworth. Just a bizzare, frustrating and strange move to not keep at least one of them. Huge weakness now.

Now we get to Jeff Demps, why the **** even sign him, I mean really ? Unless he blew the **** out his kneecap, why the hell IR him, what's the point ? Just makes no ******* sense. The fans who were cursing the Pats for getting Demps, are probably laughing their asses off. Why did we sign him ? Our return game is back to being a weakness, same sad ****ty returners Edelman and Woodhead. I wish we never ******* signed Demps. Great move signing him, incredibly weird move IR'ing him, what a ******* waste of time. Just saw him interviewed the other night saying he felt good out there and felt like he was progressing. Strangest move ever.

Overall, I look at this roster, and I don't see a dominant team, don't see a great team, I see huge weaknesses at WR, Return Team, O-line and RB. Will be rooting for this team like crazy as always, but as the team is constructed right now, I see a team most likely that won't get out of the first round. Very frustrating 72 hours, just weird moves to make the team weaker.

I hope I'm wrong, but some of these moves seem devastatingly brutal.

Click to expand...

The WR's moves: With at least 2 or 3 TE's who will contribute greatly in this offense, they really act as receivers, since in essence they 'receive' the passes. Belichick likely felt as though he could use that to his advantage and not need as many actual WR's, which he used in other areas of the team. Also keep in mind that it's pretty likely that Branch or Gaffney will be brought back after the week one games are played, as their salaries are no longer guaranteed for the season.

The Demps move: please see my post on page 6 in the Demps thread. Basically it's just a reminder that Demps was not going to contribute at all as a RB this year. He had zero knowledge of our system. The only reason he would have even been active on gamedays is b/c he would have returned KO's. If he is injured (and it appears that he is on some level), then how do you really justify holding down a precious roster spot for a pure KO returner who will likely miss at least 3-4 games this year. Demps is a future piece of the puzzle, and will gain knowledge of our system and attend meetings. He will likely come back for next season and actually contribute as a positional player, thus justifying his spot on the roster. Think Edelman injured as a rookie who hasn't played football in awhile. It just wouldn't have made that much sense to keep him if he were going to miss a few games, and the special IR designation is needed for a guy who may actually be a big name and contributor, not a guy like Demps.

Some of these roster moves really have me shocked and confused. I really can't understand the receiver cuts, the position went from an area of strength to an area of weakness. Lloyd and Welker are excellent receivers, but that's all we have now, Edelman and Slater are not good receivers. They are good special teams players, but no matter how brilliant Belichick is, you could never in a million years convince me that Edelman and Slater are better receivers than Gaffney, Branch and Stallworth. Just a bizzare, frustrating and strange move to not keep at least one of them. Huge weakness now.

Now we get to Jeff Demps, why the **** even sign him, I mean really ? Unless he blew the **** out his kneecap, why the hell IR him, what's the point ? Just makes no ******* sense. The fans who were cursing the Pats for getting Demps, are probably laughing their asses off. Why did we sign him ? Our return game is back to being a weakness, same sad ****ty returners Edelman and Woodhead. I wish we never ******* signed Demps. Great move signing him, incredibly weird move IR'ing him, what a ******* waste of time. Just saw him interviewed the other night saying he felt good out there and felt like he was progressing. Strangest move ever.

Overall, I look at this roster, and I don't see a dominant team, don't see a great team, I see huge weaknesses at WR, Return Team, O-line and RB. Will be rooting for this team like crazy as always, but as the team is constructed right now, I see a team most likely that won't get out of the first round. Very frustrating 72 hours, just weird moves to make the team weaker.

I hope I'm wrong, but some of these moves seem devastatingly brutal.

Click to expand...

Nope, I can't agree with you. What makes you panic and go all gloom and doom with "I see a team most likely that won't get out of the first round" feels about right to me. I generally expect several of the following to happen:

- Guys to get cut who I didn't expect to get cut
- Guys to make the team who I didn't expect to make the team
- More players at one position than I expected
- Less players at one position than I expected
- A couple of "WTF?" moves
- Some guys going on IR who I had big hopes for

It happens every year. This year is no exception. In the past I've had a similar reaction to the one you're having - shocked, confused, disappointed, discouraged. And then every damn year BB fields a team that is a SB contender. I expect he'll do it again this year, without Jeff Demps, Deion Branch, Jabar Gaffbey, Brian Hoyer, Dan Koppen, Jeff Tarpinian, Niko Koutouvides and the rest.

It's a long season. I'm not worrying much about how things look on September 1. The roster will be in constant evolution. Guys like Brian Waters and Rodney Harrison weren't on the roster at this point in years past. And ultimately, BB knows what he's doing when it comes to building a team. It's not his first rodeo. I'm kind of glad that things are being shaken up a little. Frankly, if the roster had turned out the way I'd expected it to, I'd be not only shocked but a bit uncomfortable that something was wrong.

Last year's team made the SB and would/should have won it but for an injury to Gronk and a few close plays. This year's team had better talent top to bottom by far. Some of that talent didn't make the team. All that means is that BB decided that he found something he valued more. That's ok with me.