Brown: <Anyone who denies that this was a considerable factor in Kasparov's defeat clearly has no idea what he is talking about.>

I agree it was a factor, but perhaps not as considerable as some others. He's lost as many as three games as black in previous matches. More striking is his inability to win any games as white.

Further, Kasparov's 2nd loss in '00 is one of the most mysterious and embarassing events of his career, playing right into a theoretically lost position straight from the opening. I see your point about the KID and Grunfeld, but the nature of his second loss IMO is the most telling indicator of his mental state, preparation, and general willingness to fight on the board.

re: the Bayonet Attack. The Petrosian System also seemed to put the KID out of commission for a little bit. Gligoric, Geller and others started to make some progress for the black side and things changed.

notyetagm: <KamikazeAttack: ... Since Kasaprov never planned to use the KID in the match and he didn't prepare it, I fail to see what it had to do with his loss.>

You missed the whole point. Kasparov did -not- prepare the KID for his 2000 match although he was a lifelong KID player precisely for the reasons that I have explained above.

Had the Bayonet Attack not put the KID out of commision back then, I am almost certain that Kasparov would have tried it. The Petrosian system does not keep KID players up all night searching for solutions.

Brown: Kasparov's played nearly everything as black against d4. Look at his early games with Karpov. Lots of QGD Tarrasch, some semi-slavs, even a QID. He didn't break out the KID and Grunfeld until later matches. He played the Grunfeld 9 times against Karpov in '86, losing 3 and drawing 6. Kasparov played his first KIDs against Karpov in '87.

Kramnik and Karpov have ideal skill sets against Grunfelds and KIDs, not saying they're not supceptible to getting blown up now and then.

I'm sure Garry pulled together a similar list when he was playing. The Bayonet Attack apparently didn't put the KID out of commission.

<Had the Bayonet Attack not put the KID out of commision back then, I am almost certain that Kasparov would have tried it. The Petrosian system does not keep KID players up all night searching for solutions.>

Like I said, things like this come and go. The Bayonet Attack is the Petrosian System of the '90s. It simply takes someone like Gligoric and Radjabov to defend the black side.

keypusher: <The Petrosian system does not keep KID players up all night searching for solutions.>

In the late 1950s lots of smart chessplayers thought/feared/hoped that the Petrosian Attack had put the KID out of commission forever. See Tal's memoirs, in particular his annotations to this game (Tal vs Gligoric, 1959) or Kasparov's discussion of Petrosian's career in OMGP IV.

If you wish to continue to believe the nonsense that you believe, then that is fine with me. But nearly -all- of the top Black KID players (Kasparov, Shirov, Polgar) abandoned the KID in the late 90s because of the Bayonet Attack. If you do not believe me, then read what KID-specialist Joe Gallagher has to say about it in his KID books.

Why you wish to rewrite history is beyond me. If you merely wish to be stubborn, then we have found a field in which you may someday become the World Champion.

notyetagm: <Brown: Game Collection: How to play against the Bayonet Attack.;>

No Black wins in your game collection prior to 2001, proving my point exatly. Your game collection shows exactly what Kasparov said about the Bayonet Attack is true, that White's game is too easy to play and that it is almost impossible to win with Black against it.

Brown: <notyetagm> I agree with you that Kasparov felt he had better chances for an easier game on the black side of other defences besides the KID after '98, but this does not mean the KID was <out of commission> after that. Others have taken up what Kasparov put down. If anything, it shows a change in temperment and passion for certain openings. He used to play the Benoni, too, of course. He's played almost everything.

As others have pointed out, systems come and go against the KID, but there has been no refutation.

Also, I pointed out that Kasparov played a bunch of openings in his youth, but he did not start making the KID and Grunfeld his own until the late 80's, meaning a time of 10 years. Still, I think it's silly to say that Kasparov's main black openings vs d4 were not the Indian openings, either Grunfeld or KID.

Brown: <<notyetagm> No Black wins in your game collection prior to 2001, proving my point exatly. Your game collection shows exactly what Kasparov said about the Bayonet Attack is true, that White's game is too easy to play and that it is almost impossible to win with Black against it.>

All I can say to this is that Kasparov is not infallible, nor indefatigable, and he seems to have had no heart to research the opening as much as he used to, and not as much as Radjabov and Smirin are willing to do so now.

You put it well when you typed <...at the time of the 2000 Kramnik-Kasparov match, the KID was under a cloud because of the Bayonet Attack. <That is no longer the case.>> (last sentence is my emphasis)

notyetagm: The <BISHOP PAIR> together with a <PASSED PAWN> form a -lethal- combination.

Want an easy way to win a game? Secure the <BISHOP PAIR>, create a <PASSED PAWN> (preferrably an <OUTSIDE PASSED PAWN>), and promote your passed pawn with the aid of your bishops.

I almost lost a game in one of my chess clubs last week to this exact same formula, without making any really obvious mistakes and maintaining material equality. My opponent simply had the <BISHOP PAIR> and a <QUEENSIDE PAWN MAJORITY> that he should have converted into an <OUTSIDE PASSED PAWN>, and that was enough to secure a winning position.

perfidious: Fine technical display by Kasparov, indeed reminiscent of his great rival Karpov.

<Brown: I agree it was a factor, but perhaps not as considerable as some others. (Kasparov) lost as many as three games as black in previous matches. More striking is his inability to win any games as white.>

Then again, in several games as White during that ill-starred title match he scarcely played beyond the opening phase, if at all.

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