Lobo wrote:It really bugs me seeing that you believe it would be everyone's Top 2.I mean, each person must have different Top 2 as there were so many awesome games.I can't name my Top 2 myself! Though I know half of it! hehe

If you say it would be 'everyone' (90%) Top Ten, I can go with that.

I don't think I said top 2 mate. That's not what I meant anyway. I agree, there were so many great games for that amazing console that I would have to think very long and hard about my own to 10.

Tyadran wrote:

DomingoRules! wrote:I'm sure there's somebody out there who owned a Genesis, but hated Sonic.

Aye. Sonic never clicked for me so I didn't bother getting myself my own copy for my Genesis, even. It may be a classic but it doesn't really appeal to me from any of the ones I've played.

Funkymonk wrote:...my argument is simple - I havn't met anyone who had a Megadrive who doesn't consider it one of the best games on that system if not all time.

Now you have. Widen your circle a bit.And you can't pull your 'new games' argument with me, as Shining Force 1 and Kid Chameleon are my favorite games of all time, period. Both of which are Genesis games. I personally find Kid Chameleon to be a strictly better and more interesting platformer than Sonic.

I don't need to "widen my circle", don't take that condescending tone with me. When you consider that Sonic 1&2 are some of the most critically acclaimed and commercially successful games of the era, when you consider the unrivalled pop culture impact and the fact that it's clearly the most famous Megadrive game, when you Google "best Megadrive games" and see if you can find a list without a Sonic game in the top 10. Is it really such a big deal that I'm surprised if someone doesn't include it in their top 10? Like I said I accept ther's going to be an exception and you're entitled to your opinion but be aware that you're in the minority pal.Also, I have no idea what this "new games" argument you refer to is sorry.

Judge others not by their actions but why they do it.Judge yourselfby your actions not why you do it.

Judge others not by their actions but why they do it.Judge yourselfby your actions not why you do it.

As much as we keep getting off topic from Shining Force, I'd like to add that my favorite Genesis platformer is probably Sparkster; unless you count Ranger X, but I feel like that game really qualifying as a platformer could go in either direction.

While the original Shining Force is very dear to my heart, and I do consider it one of my favorite games, I know I see it through a rose-tinted lens. Coming back after years and playing it again, I can really see the lack of challenge in many battles, the rather bland mechanics, and loose story.

However, be that as it may, it is the community that keeps it so high on my lists, and keeps me coming back time and time again. The awesome mods pushed out by the community, the countless hours I have poured into modding it myself, I love it all, and I don't think anything will come close to that.

I'm kind of amused by the lack of challenge because when I was a kid the challenge was just right. Pushed me hard enough to have some rough battles, without ever going so overboard that I ever felt stuck. Excluding of course my very first time playing through, during which I got stuck at a few parts (first time fighting Marionette was a nightmare that I imagine caused most to suffer). Because of that drastic difference between how satisfying the difficulty was back then, to how mindless it is now is like a preserved time capsule of how my gaming skills have developed that I feel in my soul every time I revisit Shining Force 1 and 2 nowadays.

Then again, a lot of old RPGs I grew up with tend to make me feel that way nowadays, especially those that I was convinced were impossible to beat without grinding that I can now get through easy without pausing to level up once.

When a game has so much going for it I'm not going to carp about a supposed lack of challenge. I don't think it's that easy anyway, not in a way that affects my enjoyment of the game.I don't think it's rose tinted glasses to put SF on your list. I'm being objective when I say that it was one of (if not the best) TBS RPGs of it's time and for me it's aged far better then a lot of games from that era.

Judge others not by their actions but why they do it.Judge yourselfby your actions not why you do it.

Judge others not by their actions but why they do it.Judge yourselfby your actions not why you do it.

Lobo wrote:Would like to see you going like this in Phantasy Star I and II.

Well I've only beaten both games once, and when I did Phantasy Star 1 I did it pretty much without any grinding (granted this was within the last couple years, as I didn't even know the Master System existed growing up). I did a little bit at the very beginning because Alis is way too weak to make it to the second town at level 1, but beyond that I did just fine with the EXP I got from wandering around, figuring out where to go, and exploring aimlessly through dungeons. Granted I imagine it could be much like Shining in the Darkness, where knowing exactly where to go would inherently cause grinding because you're not gaining the intended EXP from being lost, but I can't say since I've only beaten the game once.

As for Phantasy Star 2, I beat that a much longer time ago, and when I did revisit it a couple years ago or something (although never beat it), with as far as I did get I didn't really go out of my way to grind, per se. Rather, I would head to the next dungeon, get as far into it as I safely could, then retreat and try again, getting a little bit further each time. Playing like that, I wasn't finding myself ever in need to mindlessly wander in circles to grind, while still making regular progress.

However, Phantasy Star 4, which I've beaten several times, I did for the very first time without grinding at all last time I played it less than a year ago. Before that I had always grinded for levels before the final dungeon, but this time I dove right in and managed to beat it.

Another old RPG I haven't played in over a decade that I've been wanting to try without grinding is Forbidden Series 4, since like Phantasy Star 4, the closest I ever managed when younger was getting right before the final boss.

Phantasy Star IV is very well balanced so that you don't have to grind.You'll probably have some trouble in some dungeons/bosses, not being able to pass right at first try, but they are less than 20% I think.

PSIII I think is more or less like that too.

As for PSII you'll either find a place to grind or trying each dungeon several times until you're strong and wise and lucky enough to pass.

PSI can be like you said. Some grinding at first and then something more steady if you know the game well.But if you don't you'll probably find yourself wanting to grind instead of getting lost in those dungoens and having to retreat 'just when you felt' you're getting to the end of it.

During my last run I actually found Phantasy Star 4 much easier than I remember, but it's probably just because I'm older, and by this point I know the game's tricks and so went in knowing what to expect from every dungeon and boss. On previous runs, I would consistently get stuck on certain bosses, and have to refight them a few times before passing them.

WARNING: SPOILER!

Most notably fights with Dark Force, and the one with those three blue-robed guys who's names escape me. Oh, and Lashiec.