Hy,
I have connected 2 5048ms inverters in parallel, and i need to set up the charging current of the inverters. Maximum charging current for my batteries is 40amps. I need to set up each inverter to 20amp resulting a total 40amp? Or only set up the master unit to 40amp? Thx in advance

Hy,
I have connected 2 5048ms inverters in parallel, and i need to set up the charging current of the inverters. Maximum charging current for my batteries is 40amps. I need to set up each inverter to 20amp resulting a total 40amp? Or only set up the master unit to 40amp? Thx in advance

You need to set the maximum charging current separately on each inverter, so that they total 40 amps.

One of the fathers of MeXy the electric MX-5, along with Coulomb and Newton (Jeff Owen).

I have re-drawn the power topology schematic from this post, to reflect the details of the actual PIP-4048 circuit. You can see the original and modified partial schematics side by side in the original post.

Do I have to sacrifice the USB( serial port) to BMS connectivity? Or Can I connect BMS to one inverter and ICC to another inverter.

Does the BMS have to connect to master only or can be connected to slave - The master and slave in Axpert change dynamically depending which one was switched first

Thanks ghatikar. Those are excellent questions. Although we have not tested it [Edit: We have tested it now, and it works fine], we have every reason to believe that it does not matter which inverter the BMS is connected to, for the purpose of dynamically controlling the charge current. It can be the master or any of the slaves. That is certainly our intention, for the very reason that you gave. If this turns out not to be the case, this will constitute a bug in our patches that we will fix.

I don't know what an ICC is, but assuming it too doesn't care whether it is talking to a master or a slave then yes, you can connect the BMS to one inverter and the ICC to another.

I note that every MNCHGC command must contain a machine number (a single digit between 0 and 8). The machine receiving the MNCHGC command on its serial port, compares that with its number. If they are the same, it deals with it locally. If different, it sends a message on the CAN bus to all the other inverters who then do the same comparison and either deal with it or ignore it.

For example, in a parallel system with two inverters, the BMS will need to send both a MNCHGC0<nnn> command and a MNCHGC1<nnn> command. If the BMS wants to reduce the total current to 2 amps towards the end of charge, it could send MNCHGC0501 and MNCHGC1501. To reduce the total current to 1 amp, it could send MNCHGC0500 and MNCHGC1501.

The dynamic current control manual mentions that the current can't be changed more often than once every 2 seconds. But that is for a given inverter. It is not a limitation on how often a MNCHGC command can be sent. So in a system with two inverters, a MNCHGC command might be sent every second, provided the machine number alternates between 0 and 1, and provided each command is acknowledged before the next is sent.

If MNCHGC commands are addressed to the same inverter more often than every 2 seconds, nothing bad happens. Some of the MNCHGC commands will simply have no effect, even though they may be acknowledged. The 2 second limitation is due to the internal communication between an inverter's main processor and the secondary processor in its solar charge controller, and our decision not to patch the SCC firmware.

Some serial commands, such as the voltage setting commands PCVV, PBFT and PSDV, do not take a machine number as an argument in the way that MNCHGC and QPGS do, but they automatically get applied to all machines, no matter whether the machine receiving them is a master or a slave.

Other commands, such as QPIRI, that do not take a machine number, only return information about the inverter whose serial port the command is received on. But it doesn't matter whether that machine is a master or a slave. The issue in that case is not master versus slave, but local versus remote.

One of the fathers of MeXy the electric MX-5, along with Coulomb and Newton (Jeff Owen).

With parallel inverters the current settings are not linked I have to set charge settings on each individually in a way I can see some reasoning behind this
The SCC may have different numbers of panels
The AC chargers may not all have grid/generators attached
But it could have been another command for each that sets them all the same.
I think there is enough work to get the bugs sorted without going to more commands.

My usage is likely to be to default the current to zero (for safety / full battery), and have the BMS set maximum possible charge current when the battery is not full, and not really anything in between.

The above is a startup sequence. RST is the "reset" command from the DSP; the remaining traffic is responses to SCC commands. "(PI99" is a response to the QPI99 command. The ACK (acknowledgement) is a response to the VERFW command, which contains the SCC's firmware version. The RI response tells the SCC some settings. Similar RI responses, in place of later GS responses, are use for dynamic current control. Finally, the remainder of the traffic will be GS responses, which contain measurements.

Referring to the DSP <-> SCC comms in Coulomb's post above: We implement dynamic current control by occasionally sending an unsolicited RI packet in place of a GS packet. But as well as sending the required current setting in the appropriate field of the RI packet, we have to put a deliberate bad value in one of its later fields to exploit a loophole in the SCC code, to make the SCC accept the new current setting without stopping charging. And to obtain currents below 10 amps we also have to fiddle the current measurement sent in the GS packets, and set some flags to tell the SCC that AC charging is on, when it isn't really.

And that isn't the end of the packet fiddling. I'll spare you the details, but suffice it to say that during development it seemed like every time we fiddled a field in one of the packets, we'd be sure that it would do the job, and then on testing we'd despair when it still didn't work. It seemed like the software gods were tormenting us. But we were determined not to patch the SCC code, only the DSP. We were close to giving up, several times, but then we'd analyse the SCC code some more and realise we could fix the latest problem by fiddling some other field of either the RI or GS packet to compensate. But on testing, we'd find it still didn't work fully. This sequence of events was repeated 5 times, over a number of weeks, before it finally worked in all cases!

In the end we had written 16 short subroutines, called from 20 locations in the original code, just to implement dynamic current control. Then, to allow a zero EEPROM setting of current, and to improve the accuracy of current reporting, required another 8 subroutines, and a table of allowed current values, patching another 15 locations in the original code.

One of the fathers of MeXy the electric MX-5, along with Coulomb and Newton (Jeff Owen).

Some of you may remember back in February, that one of my PIPs blew up when I turned on a vacuum cleaner, although that had been done many times before with no problems.

Well, that PIP is working again at last! And not only working, but running the latest beta patched firmware in parallel with my other PIP. Hoorah!

Many thanks to Coulomb for all the hours he put into fixing it. We learned a lot -- some of which has appeared as the schematics Coulomb has posted above.

You might well ask what took us so long? It was partly that there were more urgent or interesting things to work on, and partly that we tried to fix it 2 times previously and failed! My memory is a bit hazy about the first two times. Coulomb might correct me. I think the first time, we replaced the battery-side MOSFETs and various of their blown driver components. We also took the opportunity to do our usual upgrade to 80 V long-life low-impedance caps and 100 V MOSFETs. But it went bang again on test. We found MOSFETs blown again, but this time we noticed two of the sine-wave-bridge IGBTs were blown too, and assumed that they had been blown all along.

Probably those IGBTs went first when the vacuum cleaner was turned on, and their shorting took out the MOSFETs. We also checked driver components much more carefully, for both the IGBTs and MOSFETs, and replaced some more MOSFET driver parts. We replaced all four sine-wave IGBTs, but only replaced the half of the MOSFETs that were actually blown. This time it didn't go bang, but it didn't work either. We got the usual "09" fault code, which translates to "bus soft start fail". This time we found that the MOSFETs were fine but the new IGBTs had blown. We pored over their driver circuitry again but could find nothing wrong.

We decided to replace the T350 opto-isolated driver chips just in case, so I ordered them, and more of the same IGBTs. These were IRGP4066PBF. Soon after, Coulomb posted a schematic that included the sine-wave-bridge IGBTs, and I noticed he didn't have designators for the associated diodes. So I went to find them on the circuit board so I could tell him what they were, because I knew from the datasheet that the IRGP4066 did not have built-in diodes. But I couldn't find any such diodes on the board. And then it dawned on me. Oh $#!+.

The IGBTs were supposed to have built-in diodes! I checked the service manual and saw that the IGBTs were described as IRGP4066DPBF. I had foolishly assumed the entire string of letters on the end was irrelevant. But it turns out that "D" is real important!

So then I ordered the right IGBTs. Actually I ordered some with a higher voltage rating (650 V instead of 600 V), but the same or better specs otherwise -- the IRGP4790DPBF. I installed them today, along with the new drivers (just in case).

When I was cleaning off the flux around the IGBT pads after soldering, I noticed a thin black line between gate and drain of one of the IGBTs. As I scraped at it, I realised it was underneath the conformal coating. I believe this was the cause of the original failure. I suspect 2.5 mm is barely enough creepage for 450 V dc. I removed the conformal coating, scraped off the black tracking, cleaned with solvent and re-sprayed with conformal coating. We shall see how it fares in the years ahead.

One of the fathers of MeXy the electric MX-5, along with Coulomb and Newton (Jeff Owen).

Hi PurePower. Yes, it has been 2 weeks now. There have been more than 10 downloads of the LFP version and the same for the Lead-acid/Lithium-cobalt-blend version. No one has reported any issues. In fact, no one has reported anything, but I think we can take it that no news is good news.

Coulomb and I did however agree that it's still a little too difficult to exit the absorb stage and go to float with our LFP version, and so we will reduce the divisor that we use to calculate the low current threshold for LFP batteries, from 15 to 12. The threshold is calculated by dividing the maximum total charge current setting (parameter 02) summed over all parallel machines, by this divisor, and clamping the result up to a minimum of 5 amps times the number of parallel machines. But for various reasons, the charge current, as measured by the PIP/Axpert in whole amps, has to fall to 2 amps less than this threshold, and stay there for 30 seconds, before it will exit the absorb stage and go to float. This applies only when absorb time (parameter 32) is set to "Aut".

One of the fathers of MeXy the electric MX-5, along with Coulomb and Newton (Jeff Owen).

Thanks so much for the new 72.4 firmware for Pb from old 52.3. Instructions work fine --I was a bit stressed.Had to make serial cable ..but thanks to paukvk was to get the pin outs for D9 and Mod Plug because I don't think I received cable with my Inverters. Anyway "Install success" with trumpet call with old XP machine with serial Fem. D9! Thanks!
Still working up to 2 PIP4048 IN PARALLEL.Changed caps as recommended in past posts -works fine thank you.
I thought 72.4 firmware had new setting 38 for dry contact Neut. earth and AGM Pb bulk charge mods?
The dry contact is the Gen.contact relay connection in this Inverter to switch my contactor neutral -correct?

Question is can I now upload 72.7 ..? for those fixes an waht version is the working version to date?

No, settings 38 and 32 (the two you mention above) only appeared in 72.70, and don't exist in 72.40.

The dry contact is the Gen.contact relay connection in this Inverter to switch my contactor neutral -correct?

I've never used it, and I've not checked the firmware, but that's my understanding. If setting 38 is enabled (ENA instead of dIS), then the one "dry contact" relay is re-purposed for the neutral to earth connection instead of its usual function, which is to turn on when the battery is low.

Question is can I now upload 72.7 ..? for those fixes an what version is the working version to date?

My understanding is that there is no difference in applicability to hardware for 72.70 versus 72.40. In other words, if 72.40 is working for you, then 72.70 should also work just as well, and you will have these additional settings. That's why Weber and I dropped support for the 72.40-based patched firmware, and only update the 72.70-based (or later) patched firmware now.

I've not seen any firmware later than 72.70 in the 72.XX series. New (as of 2017) inverter chargers with single SCCs come with 73.XX, and dual/triple SCC models seem to come with 75.XX. The latter do NOT appear to be compatible with single SCC models, but I'm not totally sure on this point. [Edit: Delete: It is safe to "revert" new single SCC models that come with 73.XX to 72.70-based patched firmware.] 75.XX firmware (for dual and triple SCC models) do NOT contain settings 38 and 32 mentioned above.

Edit: 73.XX does retain settings 32 and 38. The latest official firmware for single SCC models is 73.XX. [Edit: Delete: In my admittedly biased opinion, patched firmware based on 72.70 is the most advanced firmware to be running].

[ Edit: I had mixed up 73.XX and 75.XX version numbers. ]

Learning how to patch and repair PIP-4048 inverter-chargers and Elcon chargers.

Thanks so much for your swift reply!! I had to get back to other more menial tasks , apologies for my delay in reply.

So just confirming 72.70 with no suffix to get my desired settings? The link search just 72.70?

Congrats. on getting the blown PIP up ..at last!! I wish I had known about that lousy track when I had my PIP in bits for cap replacement.
Might be good to have a pic of where that track is ..Pray we don't have to go down that path!

Yes, official firmware 72.70 has the settings numbered 38 and 32 that you mentioned. It also still has the charge bug and a few other limitations, so our patched firmware such as 72.70b and soon 72.70C has all the features of official firmware 72.70, the charge bug fixed, and several other goodies.

The link search just 72.70?

It used to be easy to find firmware files with a simple search, but for whatever reason the manufacturer is not releasing them widely any more. You can follow the links in the index in the first post of this topic to find official and patched firmware files.

Congrats. on getting the blown PIP [fixed] up ..at last!! I wish I had known about that lousy track when I had my PIP in bits for cap replacement.
Might be good to have a pic of where that track is ..

Actually, it wasn't a bad PCB track that was the problem, it was carbonising between copper tracks. Weber has added a link to this Wikipedia article, where it says:

"Tracking is an electrical breakdown on the surface of an insulating material wherein an initial exposure to heat chars the material, and the char is more conductive than the original insulator, producing more current flow, more heat, and eventually complete failure."

The insulating material here is obviously the fibreglass to which the copper tracks of the Printed Circuit Board adhere.

Learning how to patch and repair PIP-4048 inverter-chargers and Elcon chargers.

All good Installed 72.70b with thanks.No issues ..still prayed!
Setting 38 now available for N earth.
Not sure how setting 32 works ..? I set 32 to 10mins?
Is the Post by you 24th Feb2017ad latest and easiest to understand on absorption/ BC process,setting etc ?

Thanks for info on o/heat issue fiberglass ..Do we know whether this has been modded?

Hi Howard,
I checked, and 2.5 mm is enough creepage distance for 400 V when conformally coated. So the original trigger for the carbon tracking I saw, was most likely a one off event, such as the soldering iron tip accidentally being dragged across the epoxy surface of the printed circuit board between the IGBT's gate and drain pads, during assembly. So it isn't something you need to worry about.

One of the fathers of MeXy the electric MX-5, along with Coulomb and Newton (Jeff Owen).

[Edit: This has been superceded. Please see the Firmware section of the index post to find the latest patched firmware for your machine.]

Our thanks to those of you who tested the beta version. We haven't heard anything from any of you, but we're assuming no news is good news. We did however have some helpful feedback from @PurePower regarding version 72.70b, which contributed to the second of the changes below. Thanks PurePower!

This release version has all the features of 72.70b and β 72.70c, with the following minor changes:

1. For the LFP version only, we have reduced the the divisor that is used to calculate the current threshold for going from absorb to float, from 15 to 12. The threshold is calculated by dividing the maximum total charge current setting (parameter 02) summed over all parallel machines, by this divisor (12), and clamping the result up to a minimum of 5 amps times the number of parallel machines. The charge current, as measured by the PIP/Axpert in whole amps, has to fall to 2 amps less than this threshold, and stay there for 30 seconds, before it will exit the absorb stage and go to float. This applies only when absorb time (parameter 32) is set to "Aut". This divisor remains 5 in the lead-acid/lithium-cobalt version.

2. For the LFP version only, we have lowered the voltage threshold for going from float to bulk, from 1.0 V below the float setting to 1.2 V below the float setting. This figure remains 4.0 V below the float setting in the lead-acid/lithium-cobalt version.

We've also added seven "easter eggs", that we collectively call "AusieView". We'll award coloured stars to posts that describe any of these easter eggs in a way that benefits others. They aren't exactly hidden. We're just too lazy to document them ourselves. We figure we've done enough work just implementing them. [Edit: I've now documented them in this AussieView Manual.] And here's the other manual,

Actually, it would be great if someone would write a manual for them, with pictures, to replace pages 14 thru 28 of this manual. A patched manual to go with the patched firmware. And while you're at it, please eliminate that confusion where they refer to "bulk" when they really mean "absorb" (twice).

By the way, if you find a parameter value that isn't in the manufacturer's manual, it's safe to assume it has the same meaning as the value that differs by one letter.

Here are the zip files with all the software you need, to reflash your PIP-4048MS or Axpert MKS 5K-48, and to revert to standard 72.70 firmware if required. The installation instructions are the same as for version 72.70b except that upgrading the SCC firmware is no longer required or recommended.

Edit note: This firmware is only suitable for the models with a single low-voltage MPPT and a power factor of 0.8 (4 kW / 5 kVA), not those with dual or triple MPPTs or a power factor of 1.0 (5 kW / 5 kVA), and not those with a maximum PV array open circuit voltage greater than 145 V DC. Machines that are paralleled all need to run the same firmware. [ Edit: not quite true; see this post. ]

Note: Lithium ferrous phosphate (LFP) is the same as lithium iron phosphate or LiFePO₄. The name "lithium ferrous phosphate" is preferred, as it avoids the confusion between "iron" and "ion".

[Edit: Note: We no longer recommend putting version 72.xx (not even our patched versions) into inverters that are supplied with 73.00. We recently discovered that this causes a problem with a relay that has been added inside these new machines, that can connect Neutral to Earth on the AC output. See the Firmware section of the index post to find the latest patched firmware for your machine.]

One of the fathers of MeXy the electric MX-5, along with Coulomb and Newton (Jeff Owen).

Dear all,
I'm new of this forum.
I have some friend that have bougth the PIP4048MS and I've see great work around it then thank for it.
My friend asking me the following question about mixing the power between the power source solar, battery and utility.
I like to know if is possible drive the inverter behaviour from the point of view of the power to the load, in other word if is possible make a dynamic mixing of the power between solar, batteries and utility in order to preserve the batteries lifetime.
My think is to drive the inverter by a selfmade microprocessor based card able to manage the inverter protocol command, I can do that without any problem (I can use micro, asic, writing firmware and make pcb as well). Before start in this task I kindly ask you that are more expert with this inverter if this should be feasible by using external current transducer with a custom card and most important if there are commands able to perform dynamical power mixing in that sense.
Could you please let me know something more on the subject? Of course if all can be do the work will be released as freeware.
I'm a power electronic engineer, loving reverse engineering and modding stuff!
Bye
Powermos

Hi Weber,
I have around two weeks on the 72.70c beta and the only issue that i notice its that the invertor temperature increased a bit after the upgrade:
before the upgrade the temperature was between 40 and 45 , now its around 45-50 celsius degrees.
Thanks
IonutD

Hy again. Today i have a smoky problem. I have 2 pip 5048ms connected in parallel. I connected my master pip 5048ms with an ethernet cable to the laptop and try to establishing the connection. And a minutes later a very dense smoke came out from the inverter. The inverter is still working properly, but the usb connection is not working any more on this inverter. If i use the connection from the slave inverter is working properly. I think that my comunication board of my inverter has gone. I already write a mail to mppsolar suport. Was it a mistake trying to connect via an ethernet cable trough rs322 port?