My female co-workers are all childless, they have dogs.Also youngish, so that plays into it as a double-down.

They take substantially more time off work for pleasure activities,and struggle with the focus of the job while at work.

This leaves the male employees left with not only their ownworkload, but the workloads of their female counterparts.

There is no issue covering someone elses workload on occasion, it is when theoccasions become frequent that issues arise.

Not good for morale.

Then someone isn't managing the department properly. I have both men and women in my staff, some senior some younger and sometimes you have to whip people into like to ensure they pull their weight, other times its harder due to unions.

I've also run wind farm development company, and my best employee for construction projects has been a female. She goes in there and makes sure *bleep* gets done, its to code, safe and proper.

So most can see that the last 30 so years has led society down a path of hypocritical and double standards, but now what?Can it ever be fixed or does it just hold too much control with in society?Is it just going to continue to ruin a lot of society, marriage, social environments?Anyone can be and do what ever they want in this country and nothing is stopping or holding you back, but for the patriarchy claiming victims out there that find everything to blame, can you ever get over it?

No, the victim hood groups have established themselves to deeply. Also the PC thing is far to ingrained with in our societies. Society, government and media,etc. has allowed it all to gain too much power and I do not believe we can change to a culture of true equity, choices, fairness across the board. It is these same groups that claim to be victims that will do everything they can to keep special privilege to themselves. These groups lack ability to acknowledge anyone else but themselves. There is more than enough examples of people talking about this very topic. There are books,talks, stat's from both inside and outside the professional world speaking out about it. As far as feminism goes, its the same, women are writing books and speaking out against third wave feminism. Examples from other countries around the globe are now showing the repercussions of feminism. I strongly believe it has ruined what could have been a better society for all, true equality, but I do see the majority of un happiness around the way things are now to be effecting more women than men. So isn't that ironic. Feminist, PC and victim hood culture has taken over I guess.

So most can see that the last 30 so years has led society down a path of hypocritical and double standards, but now what?Can it ever be fixed or does it just hold too much control with in society?Is it just going to continue to ruin a lot of society, marriage, social environments?Anyone can be and do what ever they want in this country and nothing is stopping or holding you back, but for the patriarchy claiming victims out there that find everything to blame, can you ever get over it?

There are many different kinds of women out there, with many different opinions. They don't have to call themselves feminists if they don't want to. They don't have to want equal rights for themselves as women (but please don't deny other women equal rights). They don't have to fight for equal rights, even though they already benefit from others who have fought for them. This does not "ruin society". It is a natural part of a free society that people be able to celebrate their differences, and respect others' opinions, even if they are different than our own.The battle is not against other women, it never was, or even other anyones, unless they are preventing others from or against others enjoying equal rights. The battle IS for equal rights.

When there are no longer any women in shelters for Victims of Domestic abuse, when there are no more women needing rape crisis centres, when women are no longer sexually harassed or assaulted,at home or in their workplace, when all mothers know that their children will not go hungry, then feminism won't be a word in our vocabulary any longer.

There are many different kinds of women out there, with many different opinions. They don't have to call themselves feminists if they don't want to. They don't have to want equal rights for themselves as women (but please don't deny other women equal rights). Your first lines are insinuating that the different women, the ones that do not call themselves feminist, are not for equality? That they deny others equal rights? What kind of person do not want equal rights? They don't have to fight for equal rights, even though they already benefit from others who have fought for them. And again, if they arent feminists, but they are benefiting from others who have fought for them, who is that, feminists? This does not "ruin society". It is a natural part of a free society that people be able to celebrate their differences, and respect others' opinions, even if they are different than our own. The battle is not against other women, it never was, or even other anyone's, And actually the trend is showing the exact opposite. Women are challenging women of feminism and doing a very intelligent, professional debate against them. One feminist's do not seem to be able to have a honest rebuttal for.[b]

When there are no longer any women in shelters for Victims of Domestic abuse, [b]when women can acknowledge proven stat's that they also abuse. when there are no more women needing rape crisis centers, when women are no longer sexually harassed, the shocking news on this is that men have and still are regularly also sexually harassed by women, it just isnt acknowledged. or assaulted,at home or in their workplace, when all mothers know that their children will not go hungry, then feminism won't be a word in our vocabulary any longer.[/quote]

Feminism, as a definition, does include equal rights, however what is being challenged, very successfully, is people who call themselves feminist's. Because they say they are does not even come close to making them stand for equal rights. What is being written about and talked about and clearly shown on this site is the obvious examples of feminists completely ignoring the privilege they have, the discrimination that others have, men. The continually misuse of reports and stories. The new wave of women challenging yourselves, and your feminist statements, are speaking a different reality. Really equality and differences. All feminists speaking portray victim-hood, excuses and reasoning with respect to their own failings.We do not see any good example's of feminists speaking. All we see are fighting, aggression, complaining, failure, shaming from them. Feminist clearly do not respect others feelings and they make that clear. And again feminists from 30 years ago were alot different than feminists that have been created since that time. I will leave one example of 2 women in debate and watch the differences. The feminists complains about failing and the intelligent, professional women clearly points out the issues. You can research all the examples you would like. My daughter has access to far more courses and funding my son. She has access to my social programs. She has access to more jobs and careers because of quotas and hiring guidelines, she can be a general in the army with out signing up for the law. She will almost automatically keep her children in light of divorce. She can work part time, full time, extra time or not at all with society pressure and normal expectations. My daughter can speak and everyone must listen. My son is told he needs to listen to women and is constantly hearing how society thinks he should change and act. Lots on this to research. Sorry, anyone claiming to be a feminist now a days is nothing even close to the past and or the definition. Its no longer a debate as this forum has shown, third wave feminists are not about equality, understanding, reality, fairness.

With out a doubt third wave feminism has proven to be a parasite with in our societies today. Question now is, Is it too late to correct society. Is it all about selfishness, victim-hood, blaming, and just separate individual groups fighting for themselves and what they can get for themselves.

liisgo wrote:With out a doubt third wave feminism has proven to be a parasite with in our societies today. Question now is, Is it too late to correct society. Is it all about selfishness, victim-hood, blaming, and just separate individual groups fighting for themselves and what they can get for themselves.

When a woman or girl has been a victim of violence or sexual abuse or assault, who is she supposed to blame? Or should she just be silent and take it?When a man or boy has been a victim of violence or sexaul abuse or assault, who is he supposed to blame? Or should he just be silent and take it?

As has been pointed out repeatedly by feminists " the shocking news on this is that men have and still are regularly also sexually harassed by women," and men, aren't they also attacked and sexually harassed by men?

If there are women and men who are challenging feminists who continue to fight against sexual assault and abuse, and are so proud of it,well good for them. It is a free country. Either you support men and women who have been victims of assault or you don't.

it keeps returning to shaming. You are so missing reality. The tactic of resorting to shaming and labeling others here is exactly the evils of feminism. No one supports violence anywhere. Horrible to label that on anyone. I get it, its a feminist tactic. Research shows with out a doubt that feminists today have different values than that of the definition of it.

Below is long but from a professor at a leading university. Like it or not.

More and more people are coming to be aware that modern Feminism is not, as I said, the solution. Rather, it is the problem, and these people are talking about it, loudly and publicly, in greater and greater numbers. And trust me, these people are not pleased and they aren't afraid to say so. Granted, this trend has gone unnoticed by mainstream media, but the blind dedication to the “gynocentric Feminist narrative” from the mainstream media is beginning to look suspiciously like the old-boys neighborhood covering their asses.

Of course, Feminism is still a sacred cow for many people. That said, it is only a matter of time before the critical number of anti-Feminist dissidents find the nerve to desecrate that sacred cow with gusto, in public, and in broad daylight.

The organized Feminist movement is well aware of this, and are well aware of how much of a threat to their political and financial power, their Party Line, and their ability to manipulate other people for their own advantage. So they have reason to be afraid of the dissident movement, and what they fear the most is the number of dissidents reaching the tipping point.

This tipping point is the moment in time when non-feminists are so numerous and no vocal and so informed that they are capable of making political and economic changes to the current narrative. Its when the dissidents have the strength in numbers to openly voice, en-masse, their disgust with the modern Feminist movement.

When the non-feminist tipping point is reached, a counter-feminist culture that constantly questions and criticizes the modern, anti-male sexist narrative promoted by the modern Feminist movement will spread across public awareness to the point that it merges with the culture at large.

On that day, Feminism loses the power of self-definition and it loses this power forever. The world will be telling Feminism what Feminism is all about. They will no longer be able to hide behind a bogus dictionary definition. They will no longer be able to make *bleep* claims that they “are all about gender equality” and will be exposed as the misandrists that they really are.

Quite understandably, the Feminist movement want to keep this from happening.

They are, in fact, terrified of it happening to the point that they'd basically do anything to prevent it. And we can summarize their primary method of preventing it with one word.

liisgo wrote:it keeps returning to shaming. You are so missing reality. The tactic of resorting to shaming and labeling others here is exactly the evils of feminism.Isn't that what you were doing with regards to third wave feminism? No one supports violence anywhere.Not true. Though, even if they don't actively support it, many turn a blind eye to it. Horrible to label that on anyone. I get it, its a feminist tactic.And there you go shaming feminists. Feminism means different things to different people. You don't get to define it.Research shows with out a doubt that feminists today have different values than that of the definition of it.You can link to this research, I trust. I assume it is from a well regarded peer reviewed source.

Below is long but from a professor at a leading university. Like it or not.It's from a retired (since 2002) history professor. As much as I trust he might have some insight on the history of feminism, I strongly doubt that he is particularly an expert on modern feminism. Also, at what university was he a professor? These are the kinds of details which you really should include in your claim. This piece was also not properly referenced, there is no supporting evidence, etc. This is a simple opinion piece and as such of minimal value as is.

More and more people are coming to be aware that modern Feminism is not, as I said, the solution. Rather, it is the problem, and these people are talking about it, loudly and publicly, in greater and greater numbers. And trust me, these people are not pleased and they aren't afraid to say so. Granted, this trend has gone unnoticed by mainstream media, but the blind dedication to the “gynocentric Feminist narrative” from the mainstream media is beginning to look suspiciously like the old-boys neighborhood covering their asses.

Of course, Feminism is still a sacred cow for many people. That said, it is only a matter of time before the critical number of anti-Feminist dissidents find the nerve to desecrate that sacred cow with gusto, in public, and in broad daylight.

The organized Feminist movement is well aware of this, and are well aware of how much of a threat to their political and financial power, their Party Line, and their ability to manipulate other people for their own advantage. So they have reason to be afraid of the dissident movement, and what they fear the most is the number of dissidents reaching the tipping point.

This tipping point is the moment in time when non-feminists are so numerous and no vocal and so informed that they are capable of making political and economic changes to the current narrative. Its when the dissidents have the strength in numbers to openly voice, en-masse, their disgust with the modern Feminist movement.

When the non-feminist tipping point is reached, a counter-feminist culture that constantly questions and criticizes the modern, anti-male sexist narrative promoted by the modern Feminist movement will spread across public awareness to the point that it merges with the culture at large.

On that day, Feminism loses the power of self-definition and it loses this power forever. The world will be telling Feminism what Feminism is all about. They will no longer be able to hide behind a bogus dictionary definition. They will no longer be able to make *bleep* claims that they “are all about gender equality” and will be exposed as the misandrists that they really are.

Quite understandably, the Feminist movement want to keep this from happening.

They are, in fact, terrified of it happening to the point that they'd basically do anything to prevent it. And we can summarize their primary method of preventing it with one word.

I'm a believer in the definition of feminism. I am a feminist in that mould. Yes, there are some who fly under the banner of feminism who are as objectionable to me as those who fly under the banner of MRA. The problem is that most people with a problem with feminism and feminists either are simple misogynists or have a rather twisted view of what the vast majority of feminists are like. The vast majority are in keeping with the definition. They just want equality regardless of one's sex. It's simple. Some may have slightly misguided views stemming from that, but in those cases it is not the motive which is corrupt but rather the information. Some do believe that there is a 30% difference in pay between men and women and it is entirely due to sexism. Most don't. Lumping the vast majority of feminists in with the more extreme, which is a very human thing to do, is just a failure of human nature. It's as bad as assuming that almost all Trump supporters are moronic idiots who want to return to the 50s with the associated racial and sex power imbalance. It's as bad as assuming that everyone who hates the term feminist is a misogynist. Most feminists are normal men and women who just want to fix the existing problems, and there are at least a few, and while we all suffer from ignorance from time to time, they are not motivated by a desire to subjugate men, or by a hatred of men, etc.

It is far too common and too easy to generalise from the worst possible examples of those one disagrees with and assume that everyone with a different opinion looking somewhat similar is the same. It's essentially your mind running a strawman fallacy on you and if your post above is anything to go by, Jack V. Butler Jr. definitely seems to have fallen for that trap in his extended retirement.

"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience." Explains why so few people reply to me, and why I might not reply

So most can see that the last 30 so years has led society down a path of hypocritical and double standards, but now what?Can it ever be fixed or does it just hold too much control with in society?Is it just going to continue to ruin a lot of society, marriage, social environments?Anyone can be and do what ever they want in this country and nothing is stopping or holding you back, but for the patriarchy claiming victims out there that find everything to blame, can you ever get over it?

Thanks for posting the link to Betsy Cairo's TED-X talk, liisgo. She does a very good job of describing the problem as I see it, and her solution-focused approach makes good sense.