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stand mixer

I would like some advice. I need a new stand mixer. I think mine must have been on the Mayflower! Although it has served me well, I think it's time to go. Can some one out their provide some advice about what brand they feel is most satisfactory. I know that probably depends on the amount of money I want to spend. At this time, I am open to a reasonable amount. I would like this one to provide service for a long time. In other words, I would rather spend enough now and be satisfied, thus not out looking again if a few years.

I do indeed, The Electrolux Magic Mill DLX Assistent has been a Swedish secret for over 50 years. An exceptionally strong dough mixer, the Electrolux DLX has an impeccable reputation for long term reliability and quality results whether you're mixing a cake, whipping a meringue, or baking ten loaves of fresh, light, scrumptious bread.

I have the cheapest Kitchenaid mixer, the Classic. I bought it about 10 years ago at Walmart for $160.00.

Maybe they were built better then, but despite all the negative comments I read these days about the KA mixers mine works just fine.

I use it primarily for kneading bread dough, both white and whole wheat, about once or twice a week. Undoubtedly there are many forum members who put their mixers to much harder use than I, but for my purposes it works just fine.

I wonder if I am just fortunate or if I, perhaps, was smart enough to buy my KA prior to the decline in quality I hear about. Anyone else have one of the older cheapies who care to comment?

The newest issue of Cook's Illustrated (November/December 2005 I think) did a review on several stand mixers. I don't have the magazine with me, but I think a KitchenAid Pro something or other won top honors. There was also an expensive Hobart (the ancestor of the KitchenAid) in the competition that finished second or third. If I had the money, I'd buy a Hobart instead of the current plastic-geared KA I have. A chunk of cold butter stripped that sucker dead but luckily my machine was under warranty. All-metal KAs are great though.

Well, they actually reviewed 3 KAs, and they slammed the smallest one of the mixers. If there is any pro-KA bias, I didn't notice any blatant examples of it. Do you have any evidence of CI being in cahoots with KA?

Hi, I'm new and this is my first post here. Please don't hate me -- I have *2* KA stand mixers. The first one is the little one, the Ultra. I've had it for about 8 or 9 years now and it's never given a lick of trouble except it isn't powerful enough to mix some of my stickier bread doughs. So a few years ago when I went to cooking school, my family chipped in and got me the 6-qt. mixer ("Bubba"). Bubba will mix doughs the smaller one doesn't, but I think I need to adjust the bowl clearance because the smaller one seems to mix more thoroughly. I also prefer the tilt-back head of the smaller one. Bubba has the lift handle and sometimes it's awkward. The worst thing is I have an extremely small kitchen with literally no counter space so I have to keep playing musical chairs with them. If I had to choose one over the other, I think I'd keep the smaller one and evict Bubba.

This is late but it may help anyway, Look at the "Bosch Universal"
The Bosch has been around since the fifties and is German, it's made for tough jobs like kneading up to 12lb's of bread dough plus anything else.
Phil

Would love to get feedback on the Bosch Universal, as it looks very tempting.

Brief appliance background on me:

After baking with bread machines from 1997 to 2006, I decided it was time to make bread the regular way. Also, I wanted to bake only once a week, rather than constantly running that bread machine.

The Kitchen Aid receives tons of accolades, but it's just too heavy! I have a 5x7 foot kitchen, and need to move appliances around, up and down, etc. The Electrolux got such raves and is smaller than the KA, so went with that. Indeed, it's relatively lightweight (23 lbs) and beautifully made. Problem is, the darn thing just doesn't do bread dough very well, at least not for me. After making the aforementioned plans to bake only once a week, I found I enjoyed it so much that I preferred making smaller, 3-cup-of-flour recipes twice a week. The DLX doesn't deal well with less than 4 cups of flour, and spins merrily away doing nothing while the flour just sits there. Making small cookie recipes is fine, but add-ins (nuts, chocolate chips, etc.) do not get mixed in.

Meanwhile, my Bosch food processor (which both "Cook's Illustrated" and the Pleasant Hill Grain website do not like) does a great job on making any and all doughs with its unusual hook. Far, far better than the Cuisinart food processor I bought after the DLX didn't work.

Am a kitchen appliance junkie, as you can see!

Would love to hear people's opinion on the Bosch Universal. Those huge hooks look like they'd make any and all doughs easily. But, I don't want to make another mistake, and I've heard complaints that the Bosch doesn't handle small amounts of dough well.

I love my Kitchen Aid 6 qt. It was a gift from hubby about 5 or 6 years ago. I heard mention of Kitchen Aid only using plastic gears now. Does anyone know when they switched from metal? I have no idea if mine has plastic or not, but I have never had any difficulty with it and I mix some heavy duty stuff.

If you have ever run across a Hobart Kitchen Aid at an estate sale or antique shop, you know that there is no question that modern Kitchen Aid mixers are NOT Hobarts. Check on eBay - there are quite a few for sale {all at prices too high for me ;-( }.

But there are also reasons that Hobart sold the Kitchen Aid line. Chief among them are that Americans do not want commercial mixers, they want shiny multi-speed gadgets. Commercial equipment in general is not intended to look good in the kitchen; it is intended to work reliably for many years in the commerical environment. Americans won't pay for durability and _lack_ of features over looks. So there was no way for a commerical equipment manufacturer to make money on a "prosumer" mixer line.

As far as the plastic gear, another issue is that Americans /will not/ read or follow instructions. They just won't. So sooner or later every Kitchen Aid owner is going to dump 12 cups of bread flour in and kick the speed up to 10. What happens then?

Well, if you think about it every motor-transmission-geartrain MUST have a weakest link. Unless it is the amazing one-hoss shay, which has never been seen outside of verse, some component of that chain will fail somewhere. Analyzing that situation, the designer has the choice of (1) allowing the motor to burn out, possibly setting the unit on fire (2) allowing the expensive all-metal geartrain to shatter, destroying the unit and possibly scattering shrapnel through the unfortunate owner's kitchen.

So the designers took the ingenious approach of identifying the weakest gear and making it plastic. That way, when the system is badly overstressed the plastic gear will strip, the metal gears will stop, and the motor will shut down on overspeed. Then the unit can be taken to the repair shop and the plastic gear easily replaced.

If you really need a commercial mixer, Hobart Model 20s are available on the used market. Note that you will need a separate 15-amp circuit to support one, and its rated bread capacity is not that high (I would guess that for a home baker doing one batch per day it will exceed that capacity, but remeber that repair costs will also be high).

I have owned 2 Jeeps over the years, and used them for serious and difficult 4-wheeling. What the heck do Jeeps and 4x4s have to do with stand mixers??? I'll tell ya: they're both machines! OK, bear with me here. Since "Real Jeeps (and other 4x4s) are built, not bought," (you've all seen guys laying underneath their 4x4s covered in grease and wrenching away), and since they are really put to the test on some rocky or muddy trail, they tend to break (kinda like stand mixers with too much stiff dough in them). Like mixers, 4x4s have expensive parts, inexpensive parts, strong parts, weak parts, parts that are impossible to reach, and parts that are easy to reach. If (since) you're inevitably going to push these machines (4x4s and mixers) past their intended limits, you're going to break something. One thing I learned from several years of fixing my Jeeps is that when something breaks, you want it to be the inexpensive, easy to reach parts. AND, in order to make sure that the inexpensive, easy to reach parts are going to be the ones to break, you design that into the machine. For example, if you've ever had to repair or replace a transmission in your car... yeah, it's expensive and takes a long time because the shop has to remove the entire transmission from your car to do the work. On a 4x4 made for 'wheeling, there's a little joint thingy (U-joint) on the drive shaft underneath that costs about $12 to replace and is really easy to reach. "Jeepers" usually carry a box of these on the trail. They refer to them jokingly as "fuses", yeah like an electronic fuse. It's made to fail when it's overloaded. Get it? So what sPh said about the plastic worm gear in your/my KA mixer is exactly correct. It's the "fuse". Sure it's a bummer when it fails, but the alternative is much worse. By the way, I just received a KA Classic Plus (4.5qt, 275W) for my birthday, and I read and intend to follow very closely the directions. I like to avoid breaking "fuses" if at all possible. I also learned to use "finesse" when 4-wheeling which resulted in a lot fewer repairs. Although this may not make you any happier about having to follow the directions or replace stripped gears, I hope it at least helps explain the theory behind the plastic gear... Hopefully.

I have had both the Bosch Universal and now the Electrolux Assistent. I like the Electrolux better. I find its easier to add ingredients, its easier to clean and I like the kneading and mixing mechanism. Having said that, the Bosch is a fine machine and you wouldnt go wrong with owning one. It probably all comes down to personal preference. Has anyone tried the Viking that King Arthur sells??

I have 2 Kitchen Aid stand mixers, the 4.5 qt Classic and Pro 5+ (5-6 qt) and I love them both. I agree that people tend not to read the instructions and Kitchen Aid is very specific about how to use their machines when making bread. At the Baking Education Center at King Arthur flour they have both Vikings and Kitchenaids for people to use while taking classes.

I love my Kitchenaid though I have never had a chance to use another mixer to compare. I guess I am in the 'if it ain't broke don't fix it mode' when it comes to looking at another mixer. Maybe I will try the Viking when I am up there next month just to compare, but then again, maybe not.

I agree with Rena, I too love my KitchenAid 6 qt. Pro stand mixer. I have no problem mixing enough dough for a 4 lb loaf in it, but the instructions are clear about only using speed 1 with the dough hook for any kneading more than 2 minutes. I generally never knead for more than 4 or 5 minutes max at a time, with an autolyse for 20 minutes, then perhaps another 4 or 5 minutes depending on the recipe. For brioche I've kneaded for about 10 minutes without any problem, always at speed 1. I keep a close eye on the dough during kneading but can also multi-task and do other things close by. If you don't bake a lot of bread or do a lot of other baking a stand mixer is probably overkill, but I do a lot of both so mine gets a lot of use, and it is fun to use. I love the feel of hand kneading bread, but if I had to hand knead every batch of bread I bake I would not be producing nearly as much as I do to keep my large extended family happy.

BTW, is it Americans who don't read directions, or is it American MEN who don't read directions! ;-)

I am sure you will be happy with your new mixer and that is a great price for a Pro 600. As an added support, through the KitchenAid website there is an area called Conversations that is a forum for all KitchenAid owners. It includes all of the appliances that KA makes but the main focus is of course on the mixers. I have been very active on that list for the last year and it is such a valuable source of information. When you get your mixer, try out the forum for any questions you might have. Even if you decide to read the instructions...

Very useful and interesting comments! Since my July post I have acquired the following in addition to the DLX I already have:

A Bosch Universal in August, 2006.

A used, Hobart-era KitchenAid K5A in November, 2006.

Hate to sound unoriginal, but the KitchenAid blows the other two out of the water! The Bosch is "kewl" as the younger folks say, with a food processor type system of huge dough hooks in the middle. Mixes far better than the "Cook's llustrated" 2005 article would have you believe--even with smaller amounts.

But, I can't get over how efficiently the KitchenAid combines bread doughs, with a minium of water. I can put in the exact quantities listed in a recipe and get terrific bread dough in a minute or two. And, this is with a 5-quart model, with the older "S" type dough hook. I'd never used a KitchenAid, and wasn't expecting much, but had to feed the appliance-hungry monster in me! Plus, I'd heard so much about the legendary Hobart-era machines on this and other food boards that I was eager to try one, particularly at the low eBay prices.

I'd say that unless someone were making a huge amount of bread to stick with the KitchenAid. If and when this machine bites the dust (and it's Hobart-made, but "only" from 1992, so it should last awhile), I'll definitely buy another KitchenAid--probably the Professional with the big swirl hook. Even if the machine were to last just a few years, I'd rather work with a KitchenAid, which mixes faster and better than the others.

sphealey, your analysis was fascinating. A very good take on a subject which has become far too emotional on some of the boards! For what it's worth, I'm a guy, but do read directions, and luckily my KitchenAid came with a terrific instruction book.

Mountain Dog, thank you for your advice about long kneads in the KitchenAid. I thought that 5 minutes was the max, so its very useful to find out that one can go for longer periods at speed 1. I'm floored by how quickly a dough comes together even at these low speeds with what looks like very old-fashioned equipment.

I tend to agree with Mountaindog that the KA pro is a very good machine for the home baker. I have 3 machines at the present a 5 quart Kenwood (english made), a Bosch Universal, and of course the KA pro. Have had all 3 machines for several years now and all are still going strong. Also have a Bosch grain mill which is noisy but very efficient. If I had to choose just one I would definately pick the KA.

I've been following this thread from day one and thought I'd finally chime in with my two cents. There's been a lot of misinformation and misunderstanding in the preceding information so let's try to clear things up. First of all, why do we use a mixer at all? In its simplest form, to a) incorporate the ingredients and b) to develop sufficient dough strength via gluten developement and to do so without overoxidizing/ overstressing the dough.

Stand mixers, like Hobart and KitchenAid are planetary mixers. This type of mixer is used with great success in bread bakeries throughout North America but is rare in Europe where spiral mixers are prevalent. Spiral mixers are very efficient at mixing dough-- in other words, they develop dough to optimal gluten development sooner and with less oxidation than planetary mixers. The Bosch mixers (Univerals, Compact) and DLX would be classified as spiral mixers.

I, too, have used all three mixers: KA 6Qt 475W, DLX, Bosch Concept 7. All three are capable of making excellent breads. My KA is repair prone but works well-- premix on #2 for 2-3 minutes, autolyse, mix on #3 3-4 minutes. Without autolyse, gluten developement is more difficult, requiring colder water, a longer bulk fermentation and additional folds. It has great difficulty with drier/ heavier doughs and can handle comfortably up to 2kg of medium consistency dough.

The Bosch and DLX have no problems with heavy/ dense doughs and can both knead larger quantities. Both are extremely durable and reliable.

Of the three, the Bosch is best at kneading efficiently.........without question. The DLX is very gentle on dough but takes longer to develop gluten structure.

Again, good bread can be made with any mixer-- the baker just needs to know when to turn it off and what the characteristics of the dough need to be.

Hi all - I'm a long time KA user (5qut Pro) and have recently starting baking more. It's too handy a machine for me to ever want to get rid of, but for baking more than 2 loaves (3-4 lb of dough) it does come up short. I was thinking of upgrading to the 6 qut since it has more power and a better designed dough hook, but am now looking at the DLX and the Bosch. Here's an interesting video which makes the KA look pretty poor compared to the Bosch.

I'd be interested to see a comparison between the DLX and the Bosch. My concern with the Bosch is that even at the lowest speed it seems to really whip around and tear the dough a lot, I'd be curious to see if the gentler action of the DLX makes a difference in the texture of the finished product. That it takes longer is really not an issue for me, since with autolyze you don't need to mix that long anyway, and the DLX has a timer so you can set it and forget it.

I watched the video test and was not happy with the misreperesentation of the capabilities of the KitchenAid mixer. For anyone who has read the owners manual you should remember that each mixer has a 'flour power' rating of a certain amount of cups of flour. This amount is rated based on white AP flour. The use of any flour other than AP is considered a specialty flour and is a lower volume rating. Secondly, when doing bread dough with any KA mixer, you use speed 2 always, from start to finish. You do not start out on speed 1 and then increase. So in fairness, the KA mixer was being over loaded initially and run on the wrong speed. That said, I broker this question, is this supposed to be a speed measurement of how fast we can mix our dough or is it an exercise in patience with the end product being a great loaf of bread?

How a person chooses to mix their dough is a personal choice but I do not like to see a comparison that is skewed from the start to show one method over another. That is not a fair test. I do not work for KitchenAid but have 2 of their mixers and love using them. Also, I was recently selected as part of their consumer test team for this year. So do I have a bend towards KitchenAid, yes, but when doing a comparison it would be more valid if done on an equal basis.

I had the exact same feeling when viewing the video... there was an obvious bias on the part of the tester towards the Bosch. The tester even appeared to be wearing a Bosch apron! Like Rena, I, too, have no preference for or against the KitchenAid (in fact, I use a DLX), but the testing was obviously skewed against the KitchenAid.

I have used a KitchenAid mixer for years. I started out with one of very small ones and have gradually upgraded over the years to the KA Pro 600. I've never had a problem with any of the KitchenAid mixers I've owned. One very important item that needs to be considered and I haven't seen mentioned is customer service. I do not the KitchenAid customer service can be beat. I vote hands down is for KitchenAid.

Yeah, I've also used a KitchenAid for years, and as I said I think the KA is too useful (for bread and other things) to ever get rid of, but I would like to be able to do more dough easily. My KA is an older (Hobart) 5qt/ 325 Watt, so I could upgrade it for a 6 qt/ 575 W but have heard that the newer ones aren't as well built. so I'm thinking about getting either a DLX or a Bosch.

As for the video, now that you mention it, the only reason I can see for starting the KA at lowest speed is to prevent flour splashing out, which wouldn't happen if they had put the splash shield on -which they did with the Bosch!

I went over to "Mixer-Owners" at Yahoo Groups and it seems like while there are a lot of people that love the DLX, there are also a few people reporting problems with it (although mostly with very small batches, which wouldn't be an issue for me cause I'll keep using the KA for 1-2 loaves). I kind of like the look of the other attachents for the Bosch too, although I don't really need them - unless my blender and food processor both go belly-up soon - but it might be nice someday to have it as an all-in-one machine.

Anyone got any thoughts on buying the DLX vs Bosch? Or can point me to a site where someone has done an unbiased comparison of the two or all three...?

I have to admit that the biggest reason (aside from so many positive reviews) that I bought my KA mixer is b/c of their full one-year replacement warranty. I like that they back up their products and the KA forum is full of such examples.

I have a Kitchenaid K5-A fro the 1960's that runs so much quieter and smoother than the new Kitchenaid Classic I got at Target in 1999. I ended up selling the newer one on Craiglist! Then I had my K5A serviced by AtomicEraMachine.net just to make sure it will last as long as I do. I found out that there are legions of fans for the older Hobart Kitchenaids!

A year ago I did a lot of research on what mixer to buy, saw a lot of KA refurbs ( to me that meant a lot of them broke) so being an ex-chef decided the 7qt 1000 watt Viking (Viking stoves last forever ) would be the ticket. It wasn't. After 11 months the speed controller died, and the first new mixer had a bad latch, the second new mixer ate the transmission. No warranty of course on the replacement, and approx 300.00 to ship it and fix it. So I decided to go with what I knew always worked; a small genuine Hobart. (10qt) I got really lucky and found a used 12qt Hobart ll (1970's vintage) and bought it. If I had not found the Hobart, I was looking to get a New Cuisinart 7qt stand mixer. They have a 5 year warranty on the motor, and three years on everthing else, and I haven't seen any bad reveiws.

I too picked the cuisinart. I read many reviews and this one seemed to have the least amount of conflicting information, plus I'm on a budget so while I would love to get a bosch or electrolux i just haven't seen any on sale or that are affordable right now...i got a good price on the cuisinart (20% discount) but i haven't had it that long (1 month), the warranty was a definite plus

I too am thinking about buying the cuisinart and would like to know more about its performance. I found Cuisinart 7 quart and Bosch univeral for about the same price. While there is pleanty of information awailable about Bosch, not much about the cuisinart. i am particularly interested in knowing how it works with a small and large ammount of dough and if there are any other problems like dough rising up the hook, overheating, crawling over the counter when kneading a large batch of dough.

mommajack, would you care to comment on your Cuisinart mixer since you've owned it for a couple of months? I have been doing some research on the 5.5 qt mixer and would like to hear how it's going. Anyone else out there with comments on Cuisinart mixers?

I've looked at both the viking and the plastic cuisinarts and neither impressed me for the money. Both list high power motors, but I'm not convinced the gearing/motor is any more capable than a KA pro. I have a 10 year old 4.5qt KA classic that is I use for bread every week. At 300W, it isn't the strongest mixer, but it kneads 2 loafs of sourdough without much trouble. I had a 20 qt hobart that I played with for 2 weeks before arranging for hobart to rebuild the transmission and donating it to a local community kitchen. I bake for 6 adults + 4 kids most weeks, and I think my sweet-spot is something between 8-12 qt. Honestly, I cannot imagine your 600 struggling with kneading. What sort of dough weight are you working with?

I just don't use it. It is hard to get the ingredients in it though. I was thinking of a smaller one and I just love kitchen equipment. I have seen the Viking from afar and was curious as to how it worked. I like kneading by hand but some of the larger batches are tiring. As for weights I usually do anything between 2 and 6 pounds. Sometimes I will just start in the KA then move it to the counter and finish it there if it is over 6 lbs.

Sorry, I misinterpreted your post as suggesting that your KA pro wasn't capable of kneading your bread... my bad. I often start kneading with the KA and finish by hand as it allows me to make adjustments if required. I scrape the bowl and hook every few minutes. As far as loading, I always remove the bowl before adding ingredients with either the fixed bowl or raise-and-lower bowl stand mixers that I've used.

I've gone from a 4.5 qt KA mixer to a Cuisenart 11 cup food processor to kneading by hand, to a Electrolux DLX. My KA is about 15 years old, and would do small batches of dough fine, although it was a pain keeping the dough down as it climbed the hook. So, I went to my Cuisenart with the dough blade, & dough setting. It had problems restarting after the autolyse period, and again small batches. Since I've settled on a few recipes, I make larger batches, normally starting with 2000g of flour & 63% hydration. This yields me about 7-7.5# of dough. I've been making them in large tupperware bowls and kneading by hand. This works fine, but I wanted to be able to do double, triple or quad recipes so I can share with friends & family and store. So after much research, I settled on the Electrolux. Why? 8 quart bowl with easy access for adding ingredients. Powerful motor and a system that seems to work very well and has been around (in Europe for many years) I liked it better than the Bosch for a few reasons. I didn't like the plastic bowl on the Bosch, nor the slightly smaller capacity (7qts?) I also have used my expensive Bosch washer & drier for last 4 years, and it hasn't been a pleasant experience, to say the least. So, I got my mixer (DLX) on Saturday. Mixed up a 2000g batch of bread dough, got my feet wet, and this mixer rocks. I also mixed up a batch of pizza dough. They both came out smooth silky and beautiful. I'm not concerned about small batches, since I freeze my pizza dough balls, and can bake large quantities in my wood oven. The other thing I noticed about the Electrolux. It's a bit pricey at $600, but, it's simple. No digital readouts or a mulitude of controls. It has a plug & 2 analog dials. One is a rheostat for the speed the other is, for lack of a better work, an egg timer/on-off switch. To me, this means that they put their money where it's important. The motor, the bowl, and the arm. It seems to be built like a tank, and powered thru my dough without issue. For some it won't fit a need, and for others like me it will.

I've been away for a while. I use my Cuisinart to mix maximum of dough for 2 large loafs (?) or double the recipe from which I think is a rye pain campagne.

It seems like the mixer is fine for a programmed amount of time and dough of this thickness, viscosity???

I made the bagel recipe from the Bread Bible, and that dough seemed to really challenge the mixer. I had to hold it down to keep it from walking the counter.....So I just halved the amount and then it seemed to work decently, though you could definitely hear the motor strain a bit.

It didn't overheat though or explode so I guess that is a definite plus. Hopefully this helps you.

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