Posted
by
Cliff
on Wednesday December 06, 2006 @01:30AM
from the no-we're-not-talking-full-rips-here dept.

DorkusMasterus asks: "I work for my church in a volunteer sense, and I'm trying to produce a video that will incorporate video clips from films (short, less than 30 seconds per clip, more likely 5-10 seconds), and I am wondering what you fine folks use to grab clips from DVD and TV (in preferably an MPEG or AVI format when completed). Please keep in mind that I am not interested in something that would copy a full-length film, nor am I'm not advocating discussion on how to best pirate films. What utilities would you use to retrieve short clips from DVDs and other digital sources?"

I run a church media ministry [vipministry.com] out of my home, and we use DVD Shrink [dvdshrink.org]. The software is freeware, and it is excellent. It lets you select what scenes/chapters/frames you want to copy, and creates a new DVD-compatible clip on your hard drive. What is nice about VOB files (the DVD files) is that they are MPEG-compliant, so you can just rename the VOB extension to MPG and off you go.

If you need to shrink the file to lower res than DVD, I recommend TMPGenc, which works very well. You can also import your VOB/MPG into Adobe Premiere Pro and export it to a new format, while editing clips together with fades, titles, etc.

Are you familiar with the fair use/DMCA implications? An administration organization that deals with Christian music says public performance is exempt [musicservices.org] from copyright restrictions, but does that also apply to DVDs?

Here's a tough one -- I'm an anarcho-capitalist Christian, so I actually don't pay attention to whatever laws you guys voted for. They're irrelevant for how I live my life. That being said, MANY congregations that I serve are VERY cautious about violating copyright. There's a huge debate that comes up every 6 months or so over at www.churchmedia.net (worst community ever, but its the only one, so that's where we go) about what Fair Use is and isn't.I use it all, and if anything, my use of "unlicensed pro

I understand, and I'd completely agree that the media industry has definitely been taking things overboard in all sorts of ways, and that church performances help them far more than they lose in revenue. However, I don't know if I'd go as far as not paying attention to all laws - see Romans 13:1-7, for example.

Anyway, for the reference of everybody, I did my own research and CCLI claims you need a separate license for performance of movies. The license costs $50-$600 annually depending on which studios you license and your church's attendance, and it seems to imply [cvli.org] that you must play clips off the original media - no dubbing allowed, even for production purposes.

I suppose one should let the Holy Spirit and one's fear of Roman/corporate punishment determine how to proceed. Best of luck regardless of what path you take.

Hrm, I'm curious. I could say that I don't pay attention to the rules that a Mafia sets up. I'd hardly call that wise though. I'd pay a lot of attention and take action (like, um, move away?). The thing is, any organization that has the potential to have a significant impact on your life (let's say, arrest you) shouldn't be straight up ignored.

I find anarcho-capitalism intriguing. What you want is for capitalism to extend into the public utilities, law enforcement, etc. should be run on a capitalist

I'd pay a lot of attention and take action (like, um, move away?). The thing is, any organization that has the potential to have a significant impact on your life (let's say, arrest you) shouldn't be straight up ignored.

That's completely true, but as someone who has a faith belief, I will not offer resistance if they want to come and take me away. I believe in natural rights and I believe that I can not force anyone to do anything against their will. By default, the law is force. I can not take advantage

... I truly believe that most Christians have no clue about the Bible, because they sure don't live it. They're accepting the word of some egomaniacal "pastor" and then they teach their kids the mumbo jumbo that they learned....

Well, I think it's reasonable to think that you should be able to trust your pastor et al. when it comes to the Bible and the teachings of Jesus considering that's their life, but when people blindly follow without questioning, you get pastors who abuse that trust.

Religion is one of the most hierarchical organizations on earth. It's a step beyond autocracy. Did you ever get to choose your leader? What makes it right for him to rule? Why does he have that power? Do you know that he's perfect, or just take his word for it?

While some religions and, indeed, some denominations of Christianity do have a hierarchical structure, please be aware that this is far from universally true. The church I am a member of did select our pastor (a search committee was formed to find on

Good question! 1 Peter was written for the Jews who accepted Christ after His Resurrection and Ascension. Christ had told His followers that He would return quickly/soon/in their lives. Was He a liar? I don't think so. In order for the Great Commission to be fulfilled (and end with end of the old age/covenant), the Gentiles also needed to see an outward conversion, not just an inward conversion, in preparation for the coming of the New Convenant with man -- the Kingdom, as some of us call it.I see 1 Pe

If you are using a Mac, download the free HandBrake. you can select which chapters you would like transcoded from the main feature or otherwise, and select some high-quality formats such as H.264 which can them be imported to iMovie

Is there anything to stop studios from producing media which has errors throughout it and doesn't actually conform to the standard? Do the discs that DVD Decrypter fails with also fail to play in "legitimate" players such as PowerDVD, WinDVD, et al? I for one would be quite unhappy if I only had a computer to play my DVDs on, or brought some DVDs to watch on my laptop on the plane, and found that they wouldn't play because the movie studios think that people with the actual DVD are the pirates, when we al

One of the rights accorded to the owner of copyright is the right to reproduce or to authorize others to reproduce the work in copies or phonorecords. This right is subject to certain limitations found in sections 107 through 118 of the Copyright Act (title 17, U. S. Code). One of the more important limitations is the doctrine of "fair use." Although fair use was not mentioned in the previous copyright law, the doctrine has developed through a substantial n

DorkusMasterus's comment is very informative about fair use. And I agree that copying is never stealing. (Note: IANAL)HOWEVER:

The BIGGEST reason why the DMCA needs to be struck down is that it does an end-run around fair use. It is completely within fair use to use clips from a copyrighted work. It certainly depends on the amount, but sampling is definitely allowed.

What you _can't_ do under the DMCA is exactly what you're asking about: You can't circumvent copy protection no matter how trivial - and al

I fully agree that copyright infringement is not theft. Theft is when I take something away from you and you no longer have it. Copyright infringement is when I do something you don't like without your permission. The only thing I have taken away from you is your ability to say "No." But that's not the real problem here.The problem here is that the fundamental point of DRM and the DMCA is to give copyright holders the ability to say "No" when nothing else will. Together, DRM and the DMCA enforce the wishes

Instead of equally faith-based "information wants to be free" dogma, how about realistic responses:- Using short clips is allowed for reviews, for discussion in educational settings, etc., as long as you are clearly referencing the original work.- Proper attribution and context makes the difference. It is the same as the difference between "quoting" and "plagarizing".

I presume you would acknowledge a difference between reading books and summarizing the knowledge into your own writing, photocopying the book

If you want to release your work under the GPL and allow people to copy it, that's your right; OTOH if you want people to be able to get the money to make movies and shows that you like, you have to show your support for them by buying their results.

Not necessarily. You can also show your support by funding production. The advantage of doing it that way is it works whether or not copyright law exists or is enforced; you can always make money by selling your services, but making money by selling copies isn't

>>>You can also show your support by funding production....
>>>>>>but that's how the industry counts "votes" for a given product.
>>>Who cares how "the industry" wants to keep track? You don't have to conform to their standards just to get your "vote" counted; if they want to count inaccurately, that's their problem, not yours.
I *do* throw money into buskers' hats. I *do* follow local bands and buy their CDs. That also means I patronize the places they play (that's w

It's easier than ever for a local niche band to reach the world. But they'll still only reach a little NICHE of the world. And if someone puts up mp3s of all of their stuff, and nobody needs to buy their CDs, then they don't have money to pay their rent. That's why copyright exists.

You're assuming that the only way they can make money is by selling CDs.

But why would that be? Are they such bad performers that no one wants to see them live? Is the quality of their work so unpredictable that no one is willing

Sorry, from what you've been saying I have to assume you don't know the realities. My brother-in-law is in a local band doing original songs as well as covers, and one of my colleagues plays jazz piano three nights each weekend. All of the musicians I know have fulltime day jobs, because the amount that local places pay for an evening's gig wouldn't cover a day's housing in this area, and if you plan to eat you need even more money. Producing a "concert" means putting up a lot of money up front to rent t

All of the musicians I know have fulltime day jobs, because the amount that local places pay for an evening's gig wouldn't cover a day's housing in this area, and if you plan to eat you need even more money. [...] So the answer is, No, I don't think people can make a go of it just being paid directly, until they get to some kind of critical mass.

Have you considered the possibility that the musicians you know haven't reached the point in their lives yet where they should be trying to sustain themselves as mu

Before you assumed he was stealing the clips, did you all even ask if his church has the CCLI licenses?

Many churches (like mine for instance) purchase licenses from CCLI or others to give rights to do things like copying sheet music for choir, worship bands, etc, playing other's music, either led by choir/band, or from CD/DVD..

And, if you have the right licenses, you are legally allowed to use of video in various ways, whether clips, playing a movie for a crowd, etc.

..will copy part of the video to an mpeg file, where START and END are formatted as [[HOURS:]MINUTES:]SECONDS. Note that -endpos is relative to the starting position, it's not the position in the file.

There is a problem in doing this with MPEG4 clibs in that you have to start at a key frame otherwise it gets a little messyIts a little easier with DVDs since there are usually 2 key frames per second (or more) where as MPEG4 will usually only have a key frame once every 10 seconds (240 frames) or on scene changes.

If you want to take a section of a MPEG4 clip (or even from a DVD if you are getting problems) you can tell mplayer to re-encode a larger section of the file (atleast 30 seconds either side of wha

Mplayer also has a method of printing out exactly where the key frames are, I can't remember it exactly off hand but its in the man page so shouldn't be hard to find. One problem I have found with mplayer is its granularity is seconds - atleast on the version I last used. I don't know of a way to specify timings by frame number (I would love to hear of a way if there is one!)

It sounds like mplayer could use a -nearest-keyframe option to find the appropriate frame close to your -ss value. Does that exist?

Please keep in mind that I am not interested in something that would copy a full-length film, nor am I'm not advocating discussion on how to best pirate films. What utilities would you use to retrieve short clips from DVDs and other digital sources?"

Regardless of your good intentions, I don't think that you'll find any officially sanctioned programs that will let you copy part of a DVD. Even if you restrict yourself to the most obvious fair use, you'll still have to do it with the same tools the pirates use

What does everybody use for grabbing clips from DivX/Xvid files? Is there a way to grab a clip and automatically resave it as a new Divx/Xvid file? This would be a huge help for making AMVs from downloaded anime as well as splitting up the scenes in my um....personal...movie collection.

You could go the traditional church route and get a bunch of monks to "illuminate" the excerpts you want by having them painstakingly reproduce each frame by hand and scan each frame back into a computer and sequence it for full motion playback. Get a few more trained in the foley arts and some excellent impressionists to get the soundtrack.

With the man hours involved, no one would dare accuse you of exploiting the works for profit.