I would GREATLY appreciate it if people would post comments about the potential etc. they see in the game. I mean, be totally honest, but I'm pretty disheartened by the ignorant "Temple Run ripoff wins" comments that are coming in nonstop. It's the same setting as TR, because they are both Indiana Jones ripoffs. Plus, I started this game before TR ever came out.

Since I'm putting up a Kickstarter soon, public perception is super important. If the comments are more balanced I would be oh so happy.

I mean obviously Eli's is the better choice. The innovation is inspiring. I loved "Blinx: The Time Sweeper", and this is somewhat like it, only with that crazy twist that you don't control the player. I can't wait to see the time reversal function.

To Eli, judging solely Death Boulder Bones:I'll be totally honest. This kind of game doesn't impress me at all, i don't find it fun, and i'd never buy something of the genre. But i accept that different people have different tastes.Anyways...

The game looks okay, and i'd actually play it. It has good concept and unique mechanicsBut.

I don't know for how long it is on development, but it lacks something. Like the "press space to undo" art that is totally different from the rest of the game, and despite being hilarious, this kind of voice over makes me kinda angry (like i said about the space crabs game).

If you pardon my terms, it looks like more than a prototype than a real game. I'm 100% sure that if you polish it good, it'll sell nicely.Congratulations and Good luck!

PS:

Fatfag broke your game and got mad over it ("what do i do, press ctrl+alt+del?", "well if you need help using a goddamn computer you shouldn't be judging at all!")

PPS:

>2013>Girl makes a VN>Uses western-style stuff while using the usual japanese cliches (Japanese high school student that finds out he's a superhero... ooookay)>Looks like a dating sim>Mentions Phoenix Wright and Professor Layton but doesnt mention Fate (just to name a classic)>Expects judges to understand the charm of a visual novel>Expects judges - who played it for 2 minutes - to have fun>My f**king face when

Rorkien:All your points are totally legitimate. There is a lot of quick programmer art in there, including that screen which I threw together in 5 minutes (trust me it's better than a line of text saying to hold space). It's pretty difficult to get part-time artists to output enough stuff to make the game polished, especially in a 3D environment. Polish is the big thing it needs now, as the gameplay is mostly done. The sounds are also from the first 48h LD compo when I made them in a few seconds too. I like the humor of them, but they really need to be drastically reduced in quantity and upped in quality. I'll probably use sound effects for most of it then occasionally play a voiceover.

I think you'd be surprised at the game, because from this video it looks like just another casual runner. It has much more in common with Braid than Temple Run. Every level has some kind of puzzle (although the ones these judges played are basically not puzzles at all) and since you can reverse time it's less about twitch skill and more about figuring out the right way of doing things.

He didn't need help using the computer, he was asking if he was going to have to kill the process from task manager to get out, and Eli mentioned that escape should work. Anyway, the game certainly had rough parts, but if an initial demo of a game is even playable at all, that's often more than is expected

I'm not a fan of the "infinite runner" genre at all, but I don't think this game fits in that category. I actually have seen a game (a roguelike) based on the premise of you being an invisible guardian spirit that keeps the intrepid and dim adventurer alive, but it was executed differently and never went that far (might even have just been a 7DRL)

Yep, my game is no infinite. There are finite levels and a finite story. Like I said, it's basically Braid except a runner and with indirect control. And I doubt it will be as good, but let's cross our fingers.

>Expects judges to understand the charm of a visual novel>Expects judges - who played it for 2 minutes - to have fun

I'm a sucker for story games and have a very japanese taste. So its obvious what I liked better and yeah she was naive to think that THESE JUDGES, who shouldn't be judges, would understand.

These games are incredible different as in playing basketball vs. reading a book - so its stupid from the get go.

What's wrong with these judges? Jenova Chen's Journey won GOTY all over the place. He is a brilliant storyteller. And Jaffe has several million+ sellers under his belt; he's just as brilliant at gameplay as Chen is at presentation. Lisa Foiles may not be a game dev, but she plays a lot of games and has a good idea of what makes them good.

In response to you, I think David Jaffe said it best on Twitter:

Quote from: @davidscottjaffe

To folks commenting about NEXT GAME BOSS EP #2: I assure you, we get what an interactive novel is. There was VERY LITTLE interactive about the 'game' we played. And while 10-1000 minutes in things may have gotten good, it's still bad form to open ANY kind of entertainment with page after page after page of text IF that text is not amazing. Would you open a novel and not try to hook your reader? Then why do so many assume it's ok for this game to open with PAGES of dull text? Trust me: if the story had been amazing, it would have been a MUCH tougher call than the way it looked. Only easier choice that day was if I should say 'yes' when some1 offered me a diet Coke .

I'm not saying you're wrong to like story-based or Japanese games more than other types of games. What I'm saying is that this specific game is not a particularly good offering in that department (at least not yet). She knew she only had 2 minutes to present, just like I did. So I made a couple levels that had 50%+ of the game mechanics in and I refined them. I timed myself. I timed other people who had never played the game before. Guess how far they got? Exactly to the end of those 2 levels. Did she not prepare or did she simply think that her game would be sold on a text box alone? Either reason is her own fault. Her presentation looked to have potentially interesting mechanics in it, but those were completely invisible from the actual playthrough.

Like Jaffe said, I have no idea if the story is epic. I just know that the first few minutes of the game are extremely dull, with like 6 different images, no animation at all, and thousands of words to read in the same text box that never changes. I also don't know if Rena is experienced as a game dev or not, but the biggest lesson I've learned in modern game dev is that you get the user interested right away. You can never hope for them to devote more than a few minutes to deciding whether a game is fun or not. The carrot on the stick is a necessity, whether it's because they want more of the gameplay to expand or they want more story. Same goes for a novel, a movie, whatever.

She mentioned that her game was inspired by Professor Layton. Well, watch this video of the first few moments (go to about 3:00 in) to see how you do it right. A mystery is immediately presented. The user is gripped. Where is the apple? Even before that, an envelope is passed to the boy from Layton. What's in that envelope? For someone who purports to be inspired by this series, she really didn't seem to take the right sorts of inspiration from it. And that's okay, because her game is still in development, just like mine. But due to the limited format of that aired episode, it looked like her game was being stifled by the judges and like mine only won because it's immediately and momentarily fun. If you were actually there or had played both games, I'm guessing your opinion would be different.

I apologize for the length of that. I'm sensitive about my game, and I'm kind of pissed with how that episode was put together. I think it's misleading and paints a golden halo around her game. I'm less responding to you and more responding to the hundreds of similar YouTube comments that I can't professionally respond to. :/

It was bound to happen. I'm sure Jenova Chen and David Jaffe are actually nice and reality TV just makes them look like assholes via editing, because thats what reality TV does; However Jenova Chen said "I don't buy that shit" which bothered me on a language level - There is no reason to talk without any respect and using profanity, if this wasn't TV, people are usually polite. David Jaffe seemed like a bug is absolutely inexcusable and that he couldnt believe that you would actually submit a game with a bug; talking like he doesnt know real game dev, let alone game dev by someone who isnt AAA and time pressed.

I know who these people are, I dont know the girl, even though I agreed with her, a 26 year old journalist is in no way suited to sit here.And I would like to point out that even if someone is successful, SOMEHOW, doing SOMETHING in the business - doesnt make them good judges... But since this is TV you have to go with whoever is available, doesnt cost too much and hardest of all: actually wants to humiliated like this on TV

Overall I think, either get really good judges, who are voted on by people on something for being good for this; OR just get 20 gamer, like a jury in a court room =P

Not that it matters, since judging a game by playing it only 2 minutes could never be fair to anything other than a "cut the rope"-type casual mini game...

This is in no way your fault Eli. Actually, in terms of professional game making, they are expecting a lot out of your game in a meager 3 minutes.

That girl chose a really ambitious project, and a very risky one at that. Graphics and music wise, it just looked a lot more appealing. The main problem I saw with her entry was that the players were not interacting with the game. Clicking a button 2000 times, regardless of the effects or story displayed, is going to get boring after a while. In case, I agree with the judges decision for not letting her move forward. The game is just a graphic novel, and you can get that just by buying a book.

Even though I think the presentation of your game did not give it justice, I can see why it was considered fun. You get right into the action immediately, and the game is simple and easy enough to pick up. The fear is that is just looks a bit generic, and the game play mechanic is something not tried too often. The games that did try it were not ground-breaking... so it might be an uphill climb.

Of course, it is as you said, all these things can be addressed through polish. 2 minutes is really a deal breaker for RPG's and text based adventure games which need more time to get to the meaty parts. But, the name of the show is "The next game boss", not "The next graphical presentation addict". Seriously, I think the way they are doing it so far is really forcing you guys to think about the game aspect more than anything else.

Jaffe swears a whole lot and is extremely opinionated. But he's a very good guy, and I think he actually gave out more compliments than anything else. I liked his style better than Lisa Foiles's for example because all I ever got from her was positive stuff and so I still don't know what she might have wanted from my game. I totally didn't notice Jenova saying "I don't buy that shit," but yeah. In context, I imagine it was fine. I'll bet they did a lot less click mashing than they showed, too. Similarly, I think the decision was significantly more lopsided than it appeared on the episode. I obviously wasn't in the room, but I was able to hear words here and there as I waited 20 feet away. One reason I don't look that excited in the episode is because I was 95% certain I had won.

The bug he encountered in my game he encountered repeatedly, and basically was able to play for 20 seconds only. That's why he got so pissed. Interestingly enough, it was this that made me figure out shortly thereafter what the problem was. It had appeared completely random before, so I had no idea (and that's why I submitted a build with that issue in it). Seeing one person get it multiple times in a row meant it was some kind of behavioral / input thing, which led me to discover it was caused by a half-implemented feature that starts when you press the Up or Down arrow key. I think Jaffe kept expecting to use those buttons so naturally pressed them immediately, whereas the other two didn't. So anyway, I think his reaction made sense, although he obviously didn't sensor himself.

You guys both make good points. The biggest issue is the playtime limit. My game also does not have enough charm and polish yet, and the other game was very pretty. I'm now working with 3 artists at once in attempts of alleviating how sterile the game feels.

Congrats Eli! so cool to get your game on TV. Lots of funny moments there. The judges tried to make it seem close for the sake of politeness to your opponent and the pretense of competition but it was clear as soon as they played your game that they were having fun, and that when they played her story game they were bored. When Jenovah Chen said he didn't buy it about the archeaologist, I think he meant that he didn't believe the story. Maybe he'd like to see something like, you guide the mummified pharoah-king who can't see through the pyramid labyrinth so that he can lead his people out of slavery or something. Chen obviously thinks the story is important, but that is something you haven't focused on because to you the game play and graphics are way more important. It's a pity for the girl that she used a pre-built engine to make her novel-story-game. It looked like the major (and OBVIOUS!) problem is the clicking, because the text is only slowly displayed. If she fixed that problem she might have had a better chance.So will you be in the next episode, against the next competitor, or will wait to vs the winner of that comp and vs them in the one after?

I do agree that the judges might seem stupid. But they're all characters, they're not "real people". Maybe they are, but the edit makes sure they are depicted as Sharon Osbourne/Howard Stern/Howie Mandel.

As for "I don't buy that shit" it may be that the he's not a native English speaker. When I curse (or hear somebody cursing) in English, it does not sound as "heavy" or as rude as it should sound. I don't have childhood memories of my parents scolding me whenever they heard the "s" or "f" word. But I still am afraid of saying merda or puta near my parents. Well all I'm saying is that he might not wanted to sound rude, maybe he was just using an expression he heard a lot in the movies.

As for the games itself, it was obviosuly a poor choice of the girl to do a VN, and even if she insisted on that, it is obvious the judges would get bored. When I first saw it was a Visual Novel I knew what would happen, and I knew Eli had won. Maybe she's a good game maker, but to be the next game boss I believe you have to understand how people get hooked into games.

I'm not sure about Eli's game being a winner game, but I haven't seen other episodes. I'm not sure what the judges are looking for, but I agree that some of the judges said it might be a game you play a little while then you forget about it. I think you should focus on that, on not making it a disposable game. I think the rest (polishing, adding content) is just a matter of effort and time invested on it.

Yeah, I've spent a lot of time since working on making it engaging in the long-term. One of those changes was to make the story actually interesting. The general plot is that rather than the spirit just being a glowing skull thing with no personality, it's actually Bones's wife. And the whole reason he's running blindly into all these temples is not to collect cash but to figure out what happened to her. That's certainly a little cliché, but I think the supporting bits of the plot make it more interesting. But since this not an endless runner, I actually have a lot of ability to put story in, and I studied creative writing along with computer science so... I don't know why I didn't do it earlier.

Plus, you'll be getting new powerups every few levels that will change the way you play the subsequent ones. Kind of like how Braid added a new time mechanic every world. We'll see how it goes. :-)

Well this show is much better then the first one but it sill has many flaws. Needless to say I agree with most of the decisions on who has won. The winner in the first episode was my favorite game so far. The crab one was...crabby. I have never played a VN and even though it all look pro it is a very nitch genre.

I will have to say Eli that your game looked like one of those flash games you play for an hour or so and never remember. Not you but I hate most games made with unity as they reek of unity. Kinda like games made with UE3 reek of UE3. It also had very little that interested me. Now its not like I got to seem for then 3 sec clips of the game which is such a crap way of judging games but it just didn't peek my interest at all.

As for story, you do not need some heart ranching, gripping, epic story in a game to make it good. Your game is one of those more arcade games that you play to kill time and not because you want to experience something. Build on that it is the strongest thing I think your game has. Make it so that every time you pick it up it is fun and re-playable. I love the idea of a guy just running around looting burial grounds, crypts, and ancient priceless artifacts for nothing other then his own gain. Some times its fun to play the villain or anti-hero bad guy. Ever play Wario? Absolutely amazing. Be careful with adding all the story in as if you do it right it will be great but if it feels at all lackluster it will show and bring everything down. Good story can pull bad game play up but a bad story can pull good game play down.

Hope game goes well but I have to say that I really am now cheering for the winners of the first episode...unless some other cool game shows up.

Well, if you grab the average japanese visual novel, it always starts slow, telling some backstory, narrating one or two days of boring-everyday-life, presenting the characters, etc. It usually takes you around 1 to 2 hours of reading before you get into the action, maybe even to get to your first crossroad. So yeah, a VN is pretty much a colored book.

They have almost ZERO interaction apart from the question answers and decisions. The art is usually a background, a foreground (where the characters are displayed), and the text overlay.

I'm pretty sure that girl picked all of this and added western art and some rpg elements; So if i am right, there will be a massive wall of text before the real action begins.The judges were expecting a different kind of game - an interactive adventure.

So yeah, Jaffe is lying and he doesn't know what the hell he played.Foiles (supposedly) played Professor Layton 3 times, so the same applies to her. (She was the one massively clicking to skip the text)Chen might know about one or two things, since he's into artistic games. But im prone to believe he was expecting something else as well.

I'm not telling that the judges are bad. Of course they have their credentials, but they rated something beyond their own scope of knowledge. And, alas, if i were in your situation, i could give less f**ks about people in the game scene judging my own game in 2 minutes.

Well, the girl has balls to create something that is unviable market-wise (unless she translates it and moves to Japan). Gotta give props to her. But Eli's game would have won in any case scenario, even if the judges KNEW what they were rating. You can't read and rate an entire book in 2 minutes.

Quote

most games made with unity as they reek of unity. Kinda like games made with UE3 reek of UE3

Huh, lots of Unity hate here. Seems pretty ignorant to me. Have you guys actually used it? Does my game look like a "Unity game?" Why? In my opinion, Unity just does a lot of the annoying stuff for you, but doesn't constrain you in any way unless you're lazy. Just look at their game list, I don't see anything that makes all these identifiable as "Unity Games." http://unity3d.com/gallery/made-with-unity/game-list I would argue it's more that without much effort you can make a game that looks like X. Without engines, your game is going to look more variable. But if you're actually polishing a game and giving it character, then it's not going to look like X. Obviously DBB still needs polish at this juncture, but I still don't see what about it makes it "Unity-like."

Never said your game specifically but to answer that question, yes it reeks unity. Unity is just a tool much like lwjgl or libgdx or x and y and z. For some reason I can tell if a game was made with Unity in around 10-15 secs as people who use it fall into their design patters especially when it comes to art assets. Same thing goes for UE3. Now I have seen Unity and UE3 games that even though you could tell that they were made with them the games were great. Also need to remember that Unity is not a AAA game engine.

One thing though that bothers me about peoples opinions of "indie" games is all this crap about originality and taking risks and "artsy." There is nothing wrong with taking a game style that is fun and adding your own flavor to it. I could play a generic TD game anytime. Endless platformers are a dime a dozen just like VN, fps, rpg, and... Thing is, they are still fun. How can you make your game stand out among all the other platformers people have played? How can you make your rpg be one that people remember? Almost everyone has heard of Halo. What did they do that was so different from the other begilion fps out there to make them stand out?

As for your game and others that might show up, an arcade game will lose to Mass Effect any day of the week. The brothers from the first episode have what seems like the biggest, most professional, and complete game I have looked at. They are not going for the next Angry Birds but the next Mass Effect. I would play Mass Effect anytime over Angry Birds. Most people watching this show are not the casual games that have only played Angry Birds. They are gamers. The thing that arcade games have going for them is that they are simple and much easier to execute. If their game with the novel and everything turn out to be good then I think they will win. But if they don't back it up then they will lose. Just hope that they can't back up there words.

It's just that making a simple 3D Unity game doesn't require as much work as some other languages so most 3D unity games turn out to be low quality 3D games.

Ghosted me.

I don't think that is it. I think that when people are making a game they tend to use a lot of the build in systems such as particle effects, modeling/lighting style and other various things the engine offers out of the box. Then they forget to add their own in because it takes so damn long. Have you ever tried to seriously draw or model really good art? Takes freaking forever. Most teams that work on a game have like 60 artists and 20 programers. Why? because art work takes forever. Then the fact that most people using Unity are new and don't have 5 dedicated consistent artists also takes its toll. Its not the engine but the people using it.

I've got 3 artists and just me. 3D is expensive work (in terms of time). I do indeed use the built-in particle and lighting systems, but all the art is our own. I also haven't written any custom shaders. So I can see you noticing stuff like that, but I also have seen plenty of games where I say, "wow, that's Unity?" Admittedly these are mostly 2D games.

As for arcadey versus "deep" games, well, for me it depends on my mood. When I have the time (which is rare), I love to be absorbed into a game for hours. Like Assassin's Creed, Crusader Kings, etc. More often I am playing on my iPhone and it's some game where I can quickly get my fix. My goal is to make a game that can give quick fixes but that you could theoretically play for hours. I don't think these are mutually exclusive.

I did play the brothers' game (Ring Runner), and I had a lot of issues getting into it because it was so extremely complex. I've got no doubt that there is incredible stuff under the hood there, but I personally think that even a complex game should not present you with any options until you understand what they all are. There is a reason the level up system works so well - you can learn one ability at a time, you're not presented with a level 100 character that has thousands of options.

It's all about the happy medium. Arcadey games don't have to be shallow crap, and deep heavy games don't need to require hour plus play sessions. Unfortunately with a 12 minute episode you're unable to see that complexity going on with the various presented games. Most of them are very good offerings in one way or another. As for my game, they showed the judges saying "can you keep this fun for a long period of time" because that's the only negative thing they had to say and they needed drama. Now people are repeating the same thing back. I can tell you right now my game doesn't suffer from that at all, and they only really had that comment before they actually played, but editing can make it look like whatever they want.

Most UE games look like UE games because they use the default shaders and crank the specular levels up to 11 because that's what's currently in vogue. There's no reason for every UE game to look like Gears Of War, as Mirror's Edge proves.

And as I said when I posted Unity's "made with" list there is a ton of stuff there that doesn't look like Unity either. This is why I said it was an ignorant thing to say. But as someone who is currently using default shaders and particles, I don't think I'll be in the group that is different than the norm.

As for indie games taking risks and such, I agree that's BS. But, I think indie games are able to take a single vision and really go for it, which can never happen with big publishers. There is constant compromising and many decisions made for the sake of time and money, rather than to make the game better. An indie in his garage can theoretically release a game whenever. I think this is a simplification, but it ends up causing more interesting games to come out of indies.

But you can't tell what's interesting about these games from the episodes, anyway. Certainly you can't from mine. So the viewers are complaining before they even know what they're looking at.

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