Pointy eggs and whales (Evolution)

by David Turell, Saturday, September 22, 2018, 16:19 (88 days ago)@ GateKeeper

dhw: “The choice is between a conscious first cause (your God) and a non-conscious first cause (an impersonal universe).” You think your God “has produced many universes over eternity”, but if I suggest there may have been many universes over eternity, you say we have no evidence. True. And the evidence we have is of a “possible” origin of this universe, but even if the big bang theory is true, we have no idea what preceded the big bang. You say a conscious first cause. Maybe. And maybe an unconscious first cause.

DAVID: The complexity implies there must have been a conscious planning designer. Unconscious cannot design.

dhw: First cause unconsciousness somehow evolving consciousness is just as logical or illogical or believable or unbelievable as first cause consciousness somehow just being there, but they are both first causes.

Agreed, and you can't pick one.

GK: yup. People that force us to pick one or the other are the problem. The answer is clearly, a definitely, maybe, either or both.

Let's start with the premise that there is/was a 'first cause', not its type. Will you accept that much?