On Frontline/World tonight they had a segment about the Israelies shooting journalists. At one point a they showed a border guard get out of a car and fire. The cameraman turns the camera to see another journalist shot. A cermamic plate it looks like stopped it.
Lucky Bastard!
They also showed a camera man get shoot 3 times while he was writhing on ground.
The IDF looked like a bunch of JBT!

Yeah, that was a pretty one sided show.
Notice they didn't show any of the Palestinians getting on a bus and the bus blowing into the next settlement?
I'd shoot at the cameramen too, fuckers are there ONLY TO MAKE THE Israeli's LOOK BAD. Dumb fucking journalists go into a war zone and expect to be "safe". NOTHING in a war zone is sacred.
did you see the part close to the end with Tom Brokaw speaking at an event condeming the acts of Israeli soldiers, and saying NOTHING about the crimes and murders commited by the Palestinians?
-UHLEK-

How many times have journalist been shoot by pali militia? Not a whole lot.
And it did mention suicide bombing.
I do not want my money,or our national honor to be conncted to people that commit such evil deeds.

Tell that to the reporter that was shown being shot three times.
I know that if Israel does not make a just peace that given enough time it will fall. The demographics can not be argued with.
I pray that the powers that be then follow the Ottoman model.

Originally Posted By fearlessrogue:
Tell that to the reporter that was shown being shot three times.
quote]that was wrong, but palis have been known to disguise themselves in everything from reporters to emt's

Originally Posted By fearlessrogue:
I know that if Israel does not make a just peace that given enough time it will fall. The demographics can not be argued with.

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if you really think that, you are totally naive, the state of Israel is not going anywhere, at anytime it wanted it could take half the mideast, if anything the palis are running out of time, all it will take is a hardliner to get elected and they will all be pushed into jordan/syria/egypt/etc...

I'm trying this new fad called uh, jogging. I believe it's jogging or yogging. it might be a soft j. I'm not sure but apparently you just run for an extended period of time. It's supposed to be wild.

those arabs want there land back but they never do anything with it the israelis have at least done something nice with their land unlike those damn towel heads whose only purpose is to kill the USA.
ya got to hand it to israel they kick some major towel head ass.

Originally posted by -Absolut-:
[b]if you really think that, you are totally naive, the state of Israel is not going anywhere, at anytime it wanted it could take half the mideast, if anything the palis are running out of time, all it will take is a hardliner to get elected and they will all be pushed into jordan/syria/egypt/etc... [/b]
The sooner the better!

The economy can not withstand the pressure it is under now (every department was cut this year), what makes you think that Israel can:
1.Continue fighting the intafada indefinitley while the number of pali's increases every year at a rate significantly higher than the Israelies.
2.Take over the entirety of the middle east, and [b]hold it[/b] for any length of time? Why do you think that they have the populations or the economy to garrison a population many times the size of israel.
Oh, and for the love of god why did israel not setup a puppet government in the occupies territories after they had taken them?
These are real question, and I hope for answers, not flames.

So the guys with bombs strapped to their chests who blow up busses and night clubs are innocent?
The Israelis are fighting for their survival against a group of people who will never honor any peace agreement so long as the country of Israel exists.

Palestine is a bastardization of Philistine. The people who claim to be from this region are nomads who were told there was a land they were from and that they should go claim their birthright.
There was a family here in Houston who visa ran out and were being deported. The problem? They had come from Saudi Arabia but the Saudi embassy said they were no longer able to return because they were Philistine and needed to go to Jordan! Jordan said no...they need to go to Palestine.
The Palestine conflict is nothing more than rich, uppity Arabs using the poor nomads to fight a common enemy. Reality is the Arabs are the ones causing the problem but since blood is thicker than water, the odd ones in the mix get the blame. Yes, that would be Israel.

Sounds like a pretty one sided show. Kind of shoots down the theory of the Jews controlling the media. Oh yeah, IBTL.

"The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life." - Theodore Roosevelt

So a Palestinian with a bomb is 'innocent'?
So a Palesinian that gives bombs to kids is 'innocent'?
So a Palestinian that orders others to do dirty work is 'innocent'?
So a Palestinian that gives immediate aid and comfort to those that do these things is 'innocent'?
There is much more to being 'innocent' than carrying a gun.

wrong, every single attack by the palis is targeted at vulnerable innocents, at least the Israelis try to hit the bad guys

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Tell that to 8 odd soliers that where killed by a lone pali sniper with an ancient rifle. And how were they going after a bad buy when the border guard put a 5.56 round into that reporter?

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I agree, that was one incident, that proves that the Palestinians COULD be fighting is a more effective way. If anything that one incident shows that the majority of the palestinians are nothing more that cowardly terrorists that would rather attack innocent non-combatant civilian Isrealis instead of fighting soldiers.
You made the claim that 'many more innocent Palestinians' had died as compared to 'innocent Isrealis', can you please show the real number of 'innocent palestinians' killed and compare them to the truly innocent Isrealis, I think if you are honest (hopefully that is not too big of an 'if') you will see that the Palestinians tend to target those no involved directly in the conflict, whereas the Islrealis tend to target those directly engaged.
And yes, a cameraman filming for propaganda purposes is directly engaged in the conflict.

The show was fair in that it presented it limitations up front. It was a mini documenary on israeli abuses of the press. It would be the same as a British reporter making a documentary on the effects on agent orange during the conflict in Viet Nam.
With all that I wrote that is all that you could take issue with? The definition of combatant.
Those who responded are of cousre correct, there are combatants that do not carry guns. Could we all agree with the definition of combatant that does something like this:
A person that carries a weapoon capible of causing significant harm, or involved in the making strategy.
I do not think of rock throwing kids as combatants, while I do think that settelers are.
A significant number of the people killed in suicide bombing and pali attacks on civilians have been directed at settlements. A significant number of the total number of people killed by the israelis have been either rock throwers or people caught in the crossfire... I have seen no number that I put faith in.

So a Palestinian that gives immediate aid and comfort to those that do these things is 'innocent'?[/quote/
Ever hear of the Red Cross/Crescent? OT Why not red star of david?
Oh and you are telling me that the guy from reuter is there to create propaganda? And the israeli guy was also there to create propaganda? That is bs.
Oh and to those that say that if you lose a war you lose all your right to what had been your land: Was occupied France legitematly owned by Germany in 1942, even though the people were fervently opposed the the government imposed upon them?
I agree that the pali cause has been mismanaged, but so has the israeli.
The whole thing is a cluster fuck.

Originally Posted By -UHLEK-:
Yeah, that was a pretty one sided show.
Notice they didn't show any of the Palestinians getting on a bus and the bus blowing into the next settlement?
I'd shoot at the cameramen too, fuckers are there ONLY TO MAKE THE Israeli's LOOK BAD. Dumb fucking journalists go into a war zone and expect to be "safe". NOTHING in a war zone is sacred.
did you see the part close to the end with Tom Brokaw speaking at an event condeming the acts of Israeli soldiers, and saying NOTHING about the crimes and murders commited by the Palestinians?
-UHLEK-

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What are you talking about, not showing anything that the palestinians have done wrong? have you been alive for the past few years?
Do you also think that the israelis are above the same acts? They are using equipment that we sold them, and they are killing people that we are now trying to defend from the evil je.. I mean ki.. I mean ... anyway, sound too close too what happened in the Pursian gulf 14 years ago then again this year, he was using things tht, again, we sold them.

Who said the war is over?
In the second intafada they have crippiled the israeli econemy, and have suffered casulties at 2.5 to 1 ratio.
Given enough time, if the israelis do not make a peace that the pali's will accept then the jewish state will be destroyed.

I dislike them both pretty equally. The jewish nationalists have done america a lot of bad...stole our nuclear material, the Liberty, spyed on us. Islam has also harmed us quite a bit, witness 9-11, Cole, the last 30 years....

"Given enough time, if the israelis do not make a peace that the pali's will accept then the jewish state will be destroyed."
Never gonna happen. Because the USA will step in and eliminate palestine eventually.

I hope USA equally help each side to sign peace, but it seems it is only favoring Israeli side. I mean come on, USA spends tons of money to help Israel.
But then again, that is kind of understandable after all this terrorist crap.
All I can say is they will never get rid of Israel whether U.S intervenes or not. Just see what happened after first war between Israel and its surrounding arab nations.

Originally Posted By hkump45:
.. I mean ... anyway, sound too close too what happened in the Pursian gulf 14 years ago then again this year, he was using things tht, again, we sold them.

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What a load of shit. If this is true, where were all the Iraqi M1 Abrams, or even M60 Pattons, where were the Iraqi F16s or F15s, where were the Iraqi Stingers or Sidewinders, where were all the M16s that the Iraqi troops were armed with?
Nowhere to be found, because that is all just a bunch of leftist lies.
Just exactly what is it that we sold him?
Besides, what the fuck does that have to do with this thread. Based on the rest of your post, I take it you side with people who rejoiced on September 11, 2001. I suppose that is because you hate the Jews.

If it's a Colt, it's a copy of an original ArmaLite.

I am not LARRYG36.

Racing is life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting.

If your AR10 is marked Geneseo, IL, it's still an AR10 no matter what some people say.

Originally Posted By fearlessrogue:
Given enough time, if the israelis do not make a peace that the pali's will accept then the jewish state will be destroyed.

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At first I figured you're just another nazi troll, but this is the second time you've made this statement, which means you are exceptionally uneducated. The US has been the only reason that Isreal isn't three times its current size. Isreal could take, and hold the whole penninsula.
There is no "palastine" and there are no "palastinians" , just trash arab rejects, that hate Isreal because they are not allowed to be a part of a successful society .

I do not disput that israel could utterly destroy all of it's neighbors. They could not hold the land however, and so far no one has disputed this point with any sort of an argument.
And to those that belive that America will always be there for the jewish state let me offer this:
Israel is in a position slightly worse than the christan state was in after the third crusade. A single military defeat and it means the utter destruction of Israel.
[red]Edited person insult; IM'd author with warning. RAF[/red]
Evidently I stepped over the line. I was not meaning to up the ante to an unaccptable level. For this I am sorry. fearlessrogue

I have a very good buddy from high school that I stay in contact with who is Palestinian. He and I have had some good debate about this subject and others including the Iraqi War. I have been down this road of discussion many many times.
The Palestinians cry and whine about how they have been miss treated. Well people, you lost the fucking war. You are lucky to even exist. I would not screw with a country that won a war on, what, THREE FRONTS IN SIX DAYS?
If you compare the Palestine/Israel situation with the Serb/Romanian/Croat situation in Europe, you see one very blinding correlation. These conflicts were never allowed to end. The victor was not allowed to decimate and vanquish the loser to the point that the losing ethnicity was so few that it was swallowed up by the dominate culture. The only peace that the Israelis or Palestinians will ever see is when there is no one left on the other side who can remember why they resisted the dominate culture in the first place.
Now this is not a very PC way to look at world politics and conflict but it is true. Ancient tribes fought one another for various reasons. These conflicts ended in most cases with the adult males of the losing tribe being killed and the women and children being absorbed into the winning tribe. This cycle stopped in the modern world and we see the results.
I truly believe that the U.S.A. should go hands off with Israel. Maintain relations and trade but let them handle their own problems as they see fit. If they want to work with the Palestinians, fine. If they want to drive them out in front of a tank, fine. This limited, terrorist, conflict and saber rattling by ever other Arab nation in the region has gone on long enough. If any of them think they can take Israel in an armed conflict let them try. If they win, problem solved. If they lose, again, problem solved for now. To continue bitch slapping at each other and then crying and whining about it has gotten us no where. It is time to fight. The one who wins is right and the loser is dead. As long as no one is left alive who gives a shit about the losers it will end.