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Why are there so many high-fashion models from Eastern Europe?

Submitted by Admin on Sun, 12/02/2007 - 10:46

In 2007, easily half of the high-fashion models working the fashion weeks in the four fashion capitals of the world were from Eastern Europe. The overrepresentation of Eastern Europeans among high-fashion models has increased in recent years. What could be the reason for this?

Apparently, Eastern European women are more likely to possess the characteristics that are required of high-fashion models. Fashion designers generally prefer tall, skinny and masculinized teenage girls with a Northern European appearance. I haven’t seen any data showing Eastern Europeans to be significantly taller than Northern Europeans. To the best of my observations Eastern European women do not look more masculine than Northern/Western European women. If one compares the ethnic composition and population size of Eastern Europe to those of the entire European population, then Eastern Europe should be supplying a minority of thin teenage girls with Northern European features. So what is going on?

I can answer the question in a single line, but many would outright dismiss it. Hence I will reveal the answer through the writings of others who would be considered more respectable/reliable. In the following excerpts, I will be highlighting some parts by making them bold and add a few comments in italics and red. The excerpts are taken from Emily Nussbaum (The unbearable thinness of being a model; New Yorker, Feb 2007) and Rebecca Johnson (Walking a thin line; Vogue Shapes issue, April 2007).

Emily Nussbaum:

These days, fashion people do not talk about models with awe. Instead, they speak of them with condescending affection, as if they were lovable circus folk. Again and again, I hear that they are “beautiful freaks,” “genetic anomalies”—girls born to be bone-thin, with giraffelike necks and the wide, pretty doll faces that are the latest visual sensation. But there is also pity for the models, who are, many people pointed out to me, basically high-school dropouts, teenagers from poor countries, whose careers last a very short time. They are infinitely replaceable. Although top girls can make up to $100,000 in a week of shows, the vast majority get nowhere near that; some of the more prominent designers pay the girls only in clothes.

Emily Nussbaum on Natalia Vodianova:

At 19, Vodianova gave birth to a son and quickly became skinnier than ever, impressing the fashion world. At five-nine, she weighed only 106 pounds, her hair was thinning, she was anxious and depressed—and she was a runway star with her first major advertising contract. After a friend confronted her, she sought help and got healthier, adding on a few pounds. But when she got up to 112 pounds, her agent sat her down: Designers were complaining she wasn’t as thin as she used to be. “I defended myself, saying it was crazy to consider measurements like 33-27-34 to be normal. I think because I was one of the girls most in demand it helped me to be able to forget the incident quickly. On the other hand, it makes me think that if I had been weak at the time, I can really imagine how it could have helped me endanger myself.”

The models she had met on her way to the top, she told the audience, were more malleable. “They were very young, a lot of them were very lonely, far from home and their loved ones. Most came from poor backgrounds and were helping their families. They left their childhood behind with dreams of a better life, and for most of them, there was nothing they wouldn’t do to live those dreams.”

Emily Nussbaum on what high-fashion models say when interviewed:

All through Fashion Week, the models told me they felt persecuted by the media conversation, as if they were being blamed for their bodies.

“You know, I don’t sing because I don’t have the voice,” said Flavia, 22, with a sigh. “If I don’t have this body, I could not be a model. I eat like a pig!”

“I’m this kind of person who can eat whatever I want,” echoed Eva. “I’m so happy that I still can eat ice cream and everything.”

“There’s always going to be that one somebody who has taken it too far,” Sophie told me. I asked her if she knew of anybody who had. No, she said. “All the girls in my model apartment eat everything. We stuff our face.”

Emily Nussbaum on the reality of many high-fashion models’ dietary practices:

But another model, Marvy Rieder, told me she had no patience for that kind of talk. “It’s b.s.,” she said flatly on the phone from the Netherlands, where she was busily packing for a photo shoot in Zambia. A Dutch model who has worked to educate the public on the subject of eating disorders, Rieder beat out 20,000 girls to be the face of Guess watches. Then she came to New York, where she was told that if she wanted to do runway work, she needed to lose weight. She dieted and exercised, but that wasn’t sufficient.

“I started skipping things. I was still eating, but not enough, really not enough, and going to the gym every day.” Her roommates in the model apartment were eating a can of corn a day, Rieder said. “Or an apple. Or whatever. And that’s just one of the things I’ve seen.” I asked Rieder if models are open about restricting food. No, she told me. “They hide it. By saying, ‘I just ate so much at home, I’m not hungry anymore.’ I’ve heard it a million times.”

Emily Nussbaum on why high-fashion models’ don’t speak out about dieting and the pressure they are under to be thin:

Sabrina Hunter, 27, agrees...She’d left runway modeling, she told me, because the pressure was so intense that it required her to eat in a disordered way. At five-ten, Hunter was expected to be “115 or lower, preferably.” After she signed with an American agency, she was given a choice: Lose weight or gain and be a plus-size model. After trying to gain unsuccessfully, she went the opposite direction, eating 600 calories and jogging five miles a day. “It made me extremely moody and depressed. And I looked it, in the face. But that’s how all the models look,” she says.

Both Rieder and Hunter have known models who are naturally skinny. But many of these girls are exceptionally young: A model who is effortlessly flat-chested and hipless at 14 will start to struggle as she hits her late teens. If she’s already rising in the industry, she may find that she needs to take more- extreme measures to continue to fit the bony aesthetic. And that goes double for the new breed of models, many of whom come, like Vodianova, from the poorest regions of Eastern Europe. For these girls, pressures to stay thin may be a small price to pay for escaping the small towns they came from.

I walk up to Nataliya Gotsii, who grimaces when I ask her about new industry guidelines on eating disorders. Everyone at Fashion Week makes this face when I raise the subject: After a year of media coverage criticizing the size-zero model, fashion has gotten tired of explaining itself. But Gotsii has particular reason to worry. She was one of the models whose photos have been used to illustrate the controversy—a shot of her ribs was flashed on CNN in order to elicit shocked reactions from celebrities.

“It’s all about the Ukrainian models,” she tells me with frustration. “After last Fashion Week, I hear a lot about myself, in the news! I didn’t come back here for two months because clients refused to work with me. Me and Snejana and the other Ukrainian models.” All of the runway models are thin, she points out, and she wonders why she was singled out. “Maybe, some of the girls, they skinny, but they look natural? Some of the girls, they don’t look healthy?”

“One of the interesting things about these models today is that they get used and spit out so quickly,” says Magali Amadei, a model who has been open about her recovery from bulimia. “The era of the supermodel is over, so girls working today don’t have the earning power. These girls come into the business young, and they are disposable. On top of that, people often talk about your appearance in front of you, as if you can’t hear them.”

Rebecca Johnson on why those in the fashion business do not want to speak about models’ thinness:

Speaking out on the issue is what you might call a no-win situation for people in such a highly competitive business. In the days preceding New York Fashion Week, one very powerful agent sounded pretty sanguine on the topic once I got him on the phone. “These girls are naturally thin,” he said dismissively. “They were the Olive Oyls in high school, the ones who got teased for being a beanpole. If there’s a problem, we’ll talk to the girl. Everyone wants her to be healthy. We work with trainers and nutritionist. Maybe it’s just a matter of cutting down on carbohydrates.”

But a few days into fashion week, his tone changed. “I just got a call from a designer about a top girl they cut because the clothes don’t fit,” he said angrily one evening from his cell phone. “I asked them, ‘Is she too large?’ and all they said was ‘The clothes don’t fit.’ I/m not talking about 25 pounds here, I’m talking about two or three pounds! This is the new ear? I really thought things were going to change.”

Still, he did not want his name used. “This is a very competitive business,” he explained. “I want my clients to make good money into their 30s. If she has a problem, the last thing we would ever do is talk about it publicly.”

“It’s the paradox of the model,” said Natalia Vodianova, one of the few models who have been outspoken on the issue. “You’re supposed to be projecting this image of fun and health. If you talk about having a problem, you know it’s going to affect your career, so you don’t say anything. The girls talk about dieting all the time, but they never talk about the problems.”

If people don’t talk, it’s hard to know the true extent of the issue or where it begins and ends. “Why are the agents even sending these girls?” Donna Karan asked at the CFDA forum on the topic this part February. Answer: because those are the girls who are getting booked. “I know one of my girls has a problem,” one anguished agent asked, “but every designer in town wants that girl in their show, so what am I supposed to tell her? If I tell her she can’t work, she’’ just go to someone else.”

Rebecca Johnson commenting on Ana Carolina Reston’s death:

Fellow Brazilian made international headlines after Reston’s death when she said parents are responsible for anorexia, not the fashion industry, but others were more empathetic. “I didn’t know her personally, “said Vodianova, “but when I read about her story, I could understand. At home, girls are the little princesses, but then you get this opportunity and you think, OK, this is my job now. This is what I am supposed to do. Nobody is nurturing them, and suddenly, everything becomes about the weight. If you do allow yourself to eat something, you become nervous because you think the clothes won’t fit. It’s not that people even say things to your face; it’s more like a tension in the air during a fitting. Or you overhear something. In your off-time you start to overeat because you are so hungry, so now your normal relationship with food is gone.”

It’s no coincidence that many of the youngest, thinnest girls on the runway come from countries where economic opportunities for them are limited. Reston’s family was initially middle class, but after her family’s savings were stolen, she felt an added pressure to be a breadwinner. “My parents saw an opportunity for me to have a better life,” Vodianova said explaining why her parents let her leave home alone at seventeen. To make money in Russia, she used to sell fruit on the street next to engineers and professors, people with advanced degrees who needed cash to feed their families. The money she made from her first fashion show – $50 – was equal to a month’s salary for a teacher. “If I had stayed, finished school, and become a doctor, so what?” She shrugged, “I still would have been selling fruit on the street.”

Emily Nussbaum on “why skinny?”:

And for observers of the catwalk, there remains the nagging question: Why this skinny? Why now? Why are designers casting bodies that are, if not actively anorexic, practically indistinguishable from the girls at Renfrew?

I hear two dominant theories. The first is that fashion is aspirational. There’s makeup; there’s lighting; it is intended to be extreme, not realistic—to inspire envy, by providing a vision of an impossible life the audience member would love to live. One editor I spoke with wondered if the tiny socialites, the demographic that can afford these expensive garments, naturally prefer to see even tinier girls on the runway, so they could have something to aspire to. According to this theory, we would all love to be that thin.

The other theory is that the girls need to be skinny because they need to be invisible. Clothing stands out best when the body is a blank. And the better the clothes are, the more extreme the skinniness must be. Certainly, the glittering sacks that many designers are featuring these days flatter only a body that recedes inside them (like the Mary-Kate Olsen look, these puffy garments have an unnerving resemblance to the extra-large sweatshirts I remember anorexics wearing back in college).

“Models are quote-unquote hangers,” points out Kate Armenta, the booker for Vogue—although she is also eager to detach her own publication from any responsibility for this issue. “Honestly, I have to give credit to Anna,” she tells me. “She’s always been very outspoken against thin models. Vogue has never tried to perpetuate that look.” (A perusal of the magazine would seem to indicate otherwise.)

But, of course, these two explanations are diametrically opposed. In the first vision, the models must be thin so people look at them. In the second, they must be thin so that no one will notice them. And when I ask the buyers and the customers, they seem baffled about the reason for it all.

Such pressures [to be thin] can be the most intense on girls who walk the runway, a job that possesses a strange, Catch-22 quality. Models must not distract from the clothes, and yet their chance to succeed is to stand out. If she gets noticed, a model can grab the big prize—a major ad campaign. These contracts offer financial security and celebrity, which translates to a modicum of power, although nothing compared with the days when models rather than celebrities commanded the covers of fashion magazines.

The truth is, no one really has a good explanation for the change [wrong honey; read this site and you will learn more in a few hours than in months spent scouring magazines, newspapers, books and journals on the topic]. The sophisticated fashion observer notes that this is just how fashion works: The Gibson girl gives way to the flapper, then to the big-shouldered forties girl and her busty fifties counterpart, and on to Twiggy, the eighties Amazons, Kate Moss, the waifs, and heroin chic—and for the past ten years, thinner and thinner, younger and younger, in what can feel like some sort of terrifying endgame. Celebrity culture has added its own catalyst, that parade of starlets dwindling competitively in US Weekly. Women’s bodies have always been theater, and this is just another act [no explanation honey; here is the explanation for the twentieth century trend].

Emily Nussbaum on the tautology that a conversation with a fashion apologist ultimately boils down to:

The clothes are on very thin girls, so clothes must look best on very thin girls.

Emily Nussbaum on basic questions to ask the fashion industry:

And there are questions it is hard to ask in Fashion World, too bumptious and too basic: Aren’t clothes intended to flatter those who purchase them? What kind of message does this send to young women? And, the electronics industry aside [employing poor Third Worlders], isn’t there something a little creepy about using teenage girls from poor countries to model gowns that get bought mainly by incredibly wealthy adult women?

So what is the answer to the Eastern European overrepresentation?

It should be obvious that the pressure to be thin is coming from the designers; not all, but a good number of the dominant ones. So here is the one-line explanation for Eastern European overrepresentation among high-fashion models:

A large number of the dominant fashion designers are homosexual men with pederastic interests and they insist that their female models lean toward the looks of boys in their early adolescence, which requires a very thin and lanky appearance, and the tall and masculine girls willing or forced to starve themselves to present such looks are going to disproportionately come from regions comprising of a large number of poor individuals with a Northern European appearance.

Der Wanderer: That is an interesting observation. I didn’t think in those terms, but there is a lot more. Wall Street criminals bribed Mikhail Gorbachev and then crashed the Russian economy after the collapse of communism, hoping to acquire Russian infrastructure for scraps. This caused great hardship for Russians, including malnutrition and starvation, and they are in a big mess to this day. The criminals got away with billions, but Putin intervened and they either fled Russia or ended up in prison. New York has some of the worst criminal lowlife.

I guess I'm a complete and utter freak then. I'm in my mid-twenties, and I'm on the light end for my hight even by model standards (read, on deaths door by the bmi), and I basically just eat when I'm hungry and stop when I'm full. No drugs or anything either. And I still have a normal bodyfat%. The only explanation is that I have a freakishly 'slight' frame. I'm getting tempted to send in some pics, eric would prolly see my as some amazing museum specimen or something

Twisty: I would really like your pictures. Again, if you are concerned about privacy, then blur or remove your face before sending them. You asked me to write about girls that are naturally very thin and discrimination/negative comments directed toward them (e.g., remarks that they are anorexic), but you would do a much better job at this than me. Your response will help because I want to make it clear that one shouldn’t be criticizing the models for being thin; they are not at fault, and that people shouldn’t outright ban very thin models because this would deny modeling opportunities to naturally thin women. There are ways that one can make the industry fund random medical exams, especially in the neighborhood of Fashion Week, that assess whether the models are naturally thin or starving themselves. This is the only legislation needed. The industry can use naturally thin models but it cannot force its models to starve to satisfy the thinness requirement.

Here is a passage from Emily Nussbaum in the New Yorker article:

Quote:

Yet despite the jockeying for blame—Are the agents responsible? The magazines? The designers? The stylists?—it’s the models who will inevitably be the fall girls, embarrassing the industry when they go one step too far and become thin instead of thin. At times, the issue doesn’t seem to be about food at all. It’s about the discomfort everyone feels when the girls in the gowns become visible, exposing not just their ribs but the strange vulnerability of their lives.

No daubt, because eastern european women are exotic and beautifull.
the easthern european are composed off the hybride ethinic groups, such as tatar ( from the west of mongolia), gipsy, curds,hun, turk-azari, muslim, greeks, azerbijanian etc. easthern european women probably have the best hair than all other european. They mostly have rare kind of hair color, long dark or strawberry red (Bohemian), thin, curly, gorgious hair. Their eyes'color are also rare to find in any other european. I call it " robin egg's blue eyes, the pupils of the eyes are very small and unobviouse, overall their eyes look like a cat. I working about computer and art, also have been working for the fashion studio, those eastern european women are beautifull in art style, in my openion.

Z/Zonneschijn: You fool, here is how to argue against a notion. You need to provide reasons why the offered explanation is incorrect or most likely so. You can strengthen your critique by citing an alternative explanation.

You made no attempt to argue against my reasoning, and cited an alternative that can be easily refuted. Supermodels.nl provides an extensive list of currently active high-fashion models. Click on the names of those with Eastern European last names and see how they look. You will see pale Europeans, many with light hair. Just about all will look very European. There goes your “hybride ethinic groups” explanation.

Red hair, in all its varieties, is more common in Scotland and Ireland than in Eastern Europe. Designers looking for dark-haired pale women would focus more on England than Eastern Europe. European gypsies are of South Asian origin and typically darker (also facial differences) than the women you are describing as gypsies. You should find out how many prominent high-fashion models have the looks of ethnic Greeks/Turks or other populations from the southeastern region.

Debra: Darling, I don’t make empty claims of knowing better. I let the evidence speak for itself. If you have a better explanation, state it. And my condescending statement is directed at Emily Nussbaum, not women in general, and I don’t believe it is unfair. Most people haven’t thought much about the main issue being addressed in Nussbaum’s essay, but here you have someone do extensive research and not have a clue about the real reason, and she gets to “inform” millions about the reason “why.” In contrast, I am not being patronizing by addressing you as darling, but simply expressing my liking for you.

Erik : why the fashion designers take the fashion models of easthern europe? this couldn't be answer something else better than the women in easthern europe have the body features verify to what fashion industry looking for.
from my other comment about the history of fashion started first time by coco chanel.so, every fashion industries follow her formula. that, the fashion models should be tall and skinny, unisex and represent the modern women looking. sophisicate body shape, smart, romantic and strong, style of the cloths present time also seem to suit for the women who is working outside house. working women are tend to be skinny and not much fat on their bodies. it's not possible for the woman who has the shape like dana benn? to wear the cloth like what fashion models are wearing on the catchwork. from my observation, the easthern european women are hybride people so they tend to have some part of their facial features or bodies look like ethnic women. such as, high cheeksbone, flat chests and large jaw etc. those characters seem to verify the picture of working women or art.

About the Gipsy's pictures

for the amteeths time, Don't you think many of gipsies'descendent, in easthern europe already look like european people? my relative visited rumania and she seen the gipsies. she finds many of gipsies are look like greek people, or easthern european with tanned skin. by the way, do you think those gipsies are the mixes of white people?

P.S I also met the Indian family in europe, the parents are very dark almost like mulatto in south africa but their daugther who born in europe has very pale skin. she can be pass as one of Italian or spanish. I think it's because those ethinic groups are really not black people. many of tanned skin or yellow south east asian women after lived in northern europe for a few years. their skin begin to get whiter and I have see one of my asian relative. her skin is almost same tone as german people with very reddish cheeks. do not have to mention about the hair that many of them find the coarse begin to get softer, small hair line, lighter color etc.

evolution is something amazing.

Do you believe this girls below are Gipsies?

Also I have never think before that the muslim arab in syria have that blond hair like the kids in this picture.

Zonneschijn: Whereas a possible reason for the heavy overrepresentation of Eastern Europeans among high-fashion models is that they disproportionately have the looks that fashion designers are looking for, you have merely mentioned this possibility but provided no justification for it. I already mentioned this possibility toward the beginning of the article and discussed reasons why it is unlikely, which you have not argued against. Don’t waste my time with such poor arguments.

Don’t make it look like Coco Chanel is responsible for the trend. Even if Coco were responsible for being a trendsetter, her choice must have appealed to most other dominant designers for it to translate to the norm. The homosexuals pass the blame on others, and there is nothing like passing the blame on women. They also make it look like the women editors of the top fashion magazines are responsible for selecting skinny models.

Why in the world would modern women need to have a unisex, tall and skinny look? Womanhood is represented by the diversity it constitutes. There is nothing sophisticated, smart or romantic about the physical appearance of high-fashion models in general unless you are looking at it from the perspective of homosexual fashion designers. There are also plenty of overweight working women (good examples in Western societies would be America, Britain and Germany).

You have again mentioned the hybrid people of Eastern Europe, completely ignoring my cited evidence that these hybrids are not being selected as high-fashion models. The Eastern Europeans being selected look very European.

The Gypsies

Your alleged examples of gypsies are not typical of gypsies. Look at this group photograph of gypsies, and you will get an idea of how they generally look. They generally look like South Asians, and this is because of their South Asian origin. There will be outliers, and since they have been living among Europeans for many centuries, there would have been some instances of European men fathering the children of gypsy women and much rarer examples of European women birthing part-gypsy children. So your examples are of the outliers, or gypsies fathered by European men/people who are more European than gypsy, or Europeans dressed like gypsies.

Regarding the resemblance of some Gypsies to Greeks, just look at the location of Greece. Should it be surprising if Greece has a number of natives that look borderline European or non-European? Also, if you look at history, the Greek/Macedonian conquerors brought in many non-European slaves. So again, no surprise if there is some overlap.

Evolution?

Your examples of evolution are ridiculous. Evolution refers to change in gene frequencies, not to environmentally-induced changes in phenotype (physical appearance in your case). The reason you observe Southeast Asian women become lighter after years of living in Northern Europe is that they are exposed to less ultraviolet radiation. If they moved to Australia or Arizona (U.S.) and lived like a typical white person, a number of them would end up with dark brown or black skin.

Regarding the very dark Indians producing a daughter with very pale skin or Asiatic individuals ending with finer, lighter hair in Germany, don’t forget that some of these women though married to someone of a similar ethnic background, have fathered the children by European men. Many women indulge in this kind of behavior. Their husbands don’t know about it, and in the case of ethnically mixed populations such as Indians or Middle Eastern people, among whom notable skin color differences can exist among siblings, many of the husbands wouldn’t even suspect it. Even if you look at facial features, the face shape of Indians is close to European norms, and hence there would not be a lot of suspicion on the part of Indian husbands, and in the case of East Asians, East Asian-white mixes mostly lean toward Asian face shapes, and so again, some East Asian husbands wouldn’t suspect it.

There are other issues also –

Quote:

For instance, there is albinoidism, which is not a full blown case of albinism, but reduces skin color pigment production, and translates to dark parents giving birth to much lighter children. Brown parents can also naturally produce much lighter children without such genetics, but the odds will be low that a child ends up with the genetics of lighter skin from both parents.

Hair could become finer with time both as a result of aging or androgen-induced thinning.

Many of your pictures are of children. Newborn children have yet to darken to their normal skin tone. And, many blond children will acquire darker hair as they grow older. The facial features of children across different ethnic groups are less distinct that those of adults, but still you can tell that “this gipsy little girl is almost blonde as Scandinavian” doesn’t look Scandinavian.

For the point of view of some girl who has the shape like your glamour model and still she trying to lose her weight, to look like fashion models. the mainly is the women themselve also wanted to be deminant like male and keeping gentle looking in the same time. some girl said she wanted to get taller like natalie glebova because it's look elegrant. yes, when you are tall, everyone tend to look at you. and that girl wanted to be skinny like fashion models because she FINDS skinny shape is delicate and lovely. I know many women especially in france and south east asia find skinny to be lovely and cute, childish shape without breasts and hips. some women think men find skinny is delicate, tender and they don't like men look at them like pornstar with alot of breasts and buttocks. lately, we seen the skinny women not only in fashion magacines but now also includeing Hollywood. skinny seems to represent people the feeling of tender, fragile, childish, polit and no way think of vulgar or demeaning of sexuality. so, we are likely to see the actresses on the movie tend to be thin, slim or skinny than, tend to be buxum ( which somepeople find it's the shape of pornstar or sexuality.

From the point of view of the person who involving about art like me.
skiny and tall are counteracted the cloth that fashion models are wearing. if I'd like to take a picture of models. I'd like my photographs looks like an alternate dimension or a drawing portait than the REALITY, and this is not especially only about taking a photographs, but also in any kind of modern's arts. with the shape of average weight women or over weight, the photographs or the clothing cann't possible look like a a drawing portait because there are too much details on the average shape's models.

you can take a look at these fashion photos, such as the first one.
the picture'd not represent as it looks, like portait or looks like dreaming. if the model in the picture isn't skinny like in this pic.
you can notice she looks almost like a doll, unreality and it's art.

And why the fashion designers have to take their models look like they are a cartoon drawing or women in the portait. some model having very hooked nose could represent the mystery looking-cloths, somehow their face remind you of the witch in the cartoons or anythings in your immegination. from my point of view all artists learn much of beautifull arts untill they are boring of those megnificent thing. such as Renaissance art, so they are focusing more on the art that's lesser megnificent's details, plainly looking.

Your examples of evolution are ridiculous. Evolution refers to change in gene frequencies, not to environmentally-induced changes in phenotype (physical appearance in your case). The reason you observe Southeast Asian women become lighter after years of living in Northern Europe is that they are exposed to less ultraviolet radiation.

erik,I do not mean that those south east asian could changed their geans in a few years of staying in northern europe. but I mean it's the SIGN of changing. you are trying to avoid that enveronment is also one factor effected to how each race are look like?
why nordic people are so pale and have narrow small nose? it's because they are living in very cold countries and less ultra-violet, with the narrow nose's hole you could breath easily in the cold. I have seen some asian with flat nose with the big hole, their nose are bleeding in the cold weather because the nose they have, do not make for breathing in the cold weather. if you are avoid to say that enveronment and physical activities could never effected on geans? so why you mentioned about the european and Inu-japanese are the first group whom begin to eat the cooked food? so their descendent have the weak jaw?

also about blue eyes are just started first time around 11000 years ago? the earlier time before 11000 years, all humans had only dark eyes. if it's not because evolution, what is it call then?

I know that the south east asian moved to stay in northern europe couldn't look like european in just a few years, but I sure after 200000 years, their non-caucasian childrens will look almost like european. yes, we couldn't see the evolution, but it just changing awhile we do not know ourselves.

I think you have to watch a lot of national geography or discovery chanel. have u ever heard of the fish without spines and rays? living in the water crave in the dessert somewhere in anatolia? or the black people in some city of africa which their anchestor were the jewish in jerusalem. you also can take a look at this link,
enveronment plays a major role on evolution.http://www.actionbioscience.org/evolution/eldredge.html

Honestly, I understand the article. However, I am very offended at it claiming that European women are only attractive to homosexual male fashion designers who want them to look like prepubescent lanky tall boys. That is a huge insult. Eastern European women are known to possess beautiful curves, full lips, wide open eyes or beautiful wide slitty eyes, fuller breasts and buttocks, smaller waists, high cheekbones, long legs, and more feminine brachycephalic to mesophalic and well porportioned head shapes. The farther north you go you will find women with longer faces, more dolichocephalic(masculine) skull shapes, lower cheekbones, tall lanky but missing full breasts and buttocks, less defined waists, longer noses(more masculine). Eastern European women are known to probably be mixed with many different backgrounds dating back in ancient history, as mentioned above. Eastern European women can look graceful and slender as well as curvy and seductive. There are soo many ranges. That is what makes Eastern European women so mesmerizing and beautiful. Remember that the demand for women to be thin in the fashion industry was here before the Eastern European women. They want women with beautiful features that are thin, which is wrong. The point I am trying to make is that if they wanted models that look like boys they wouldnt need eastern european women because they posess more feminine features than women of the north. Eastern European women have exotic features, that is the reason they are so in demand.

Ingrid: No, you have not understood the article. I have made nothing close to the claim you think I have made. First, a little bit of background.

Feminine and masculine women are found in all populations. If the population size is in the tens of millions, then you are looking at a large number of feminine and masculine women. So the overrepresentation of Eastern Europeans among high-fashion models has nothing to do with the frequency of feminine or masculine women among them.

Eastern European women are also overrepresented among pornstars, nude models and prostitutes, especially the ones who are more in demand. So obviously it is not true that their appeal is limited to male homosexual fashion designers.

We should consider the possibility that this across-the-board overrepresentation is because they are more beautiful than other women, but does this greater beauty result from their more ethnically mixed nature or exotic looks? Clearly no. The top models have Northern European features. See how many well-ranked Eastern European fashion models you can find with ethnically mixed features. Look up, for instance, the top-fashion-models section within this site (see top right column) and note the features of the women with Eastern European last names. A number of them hardly even look Slavic. I also have a number of Eastern European women in the attractive women section of this site, and a friend of mine who was very confident that he could figure out who is Eastern European from looking at the face missed some of them. Similarly, blonde Eastern European prostitutes are the ones in demand, not those who look as if they have a large part of their ancestry from Azerbaijan or Turkmenistan or Kazakhstan or something like this. I have never gotten the impression of anything special about attractive Eastern European women; they are generally similar to attractive Northern European women.

The explanation we are looking for is simple and parsimonious. Few women will participate in pornography, nude modeling, prostitution, or starve to model for homosexual fashion designers, and the poor ones are more likely participants. So the question is where in the world do we find a large number of poor women with strong international appeal? It is necessary to find a large supply of poor women so that one can be selective. Strong international appeal is an obvious requirement for pornstars, prostitutes and nude models. Similarly, appeal to homosexual fashion designers is an obvious requirement for fashion modeling. And what is common to both strong international appeal and appeal to homosexual fashion designers? Northern European features involving color and fine facial features. So is the answer now obvious? If Alexandra/Ali Michael were Eastern European, do you think she would have given up like she did?

As an off-topic issue, you are mistaken about basic skull shapes being associated with masculinization and feminization. Seen from the side/profile view, we have many types of heads (crania is a better term; the cranium is the skull minus the face): elongated (dolichocephalic), roundish (brachycephalic), heads in between these two types (mesocephalic), etc. Sex hormones affect head shapes, but they do not cause these basic types of head shapes. For instance, masculinization tends to make the forehead more sloping and deform the back of the head as in some flattening of the upper back of the head.

Yes, I understand the article completely. I could not agree more with the point it is trying to make. Many Eastern European women are overrepresented in the fashion/porn industry. Yes, many Eastern European women are prostitutes and nude models. Yes, it is clear that they are willing to starve themselves or sell their bodies so that they could earn some money. I also know it is most likely not a lot of money in the first place. I absolutely agree that the fashion industry is taking advantage of these young poor Eastern European women who are most likely sending the little money they are making back to their families in another country. I know that what the fashion industry is doing to these women is morally wrong. I also believe that it is not only wrong to do this to the models, but the young girls all across the globe that see these models on television or in magazines and strive to look like them. I definitely understand what the article is trying to say. I mean, I am probably only of average intelligence and not entirely as educated as I should be, however I can understand the article thank you. I have nothing against the article except that it points out that the models look like little boys. Hey! Its 100% correct. I guess I just sensed an underlying message, which insulted me personally. I am 50% Eastern European and 50% Northern European. I have some distinct Eastern European features like these models. I have high cheekbones, broad forehead, small chin, round face (brachycephalic cranium), eyes are not close set or wide set, small top lip, full bottom lip, wide open almond shaped eyes, high bridged straight nose of medium length, medium height and weight (5’5 1/2, 117lbs), hourglass figure, 34C, 25, 35 are my measurements, long legs, small feet, short-medium waist, long neck but looks shorter because of rounded face. I was born with light (almost white) ashy blonde hair that turned into a dark ashy blonde that gets pretty bright in the summer. I also have hazel eyes that change colors from gold-yellowish brown, light-yellow green, dark brown, and black. My skin is extremely pale and cool toned, and I occasionally get freckles across my nose and shoulders. Overall, I look like an Eastern European with Northern European features, like those models. It just made me angry, because in my mind, the article implied that Eastern European women cannot be beautiful. The only reason they are so successful is because they are cheap. Also, the one thing that makes them somewhat attractive is the fact that they have “refined” Northern European features. Hey maybe this is the truth and I just cannot accept it. I would like to ask you to please post a few examples (photos) of what a feminine beautiful woman should look like. Then I would also please ask you to post few examples of the typical Slavic or Eastern European woman. Then I will judge for myself how far off ugly Eastern European women are off from the ideal. I can live with truth, and I seek truth. So if the truth is that Eastern European women are just plain ugly women who look like boys, I can live with it.

You may wonder hmm.. how I Earth did she get that impression? These statements in the article led me to have the feelings I did.

1)Apparently, Eastern European women are more likely to possess the characteristics that are required of high-fashion models. Fashion designers generally prefer tall, skinny and masculinized teenage girls with a Northern European appearance.

2)A large number of the dominant fashion designers are homosexual men with pederastic interests and they insist that their female models lean toward the looks of boys in their early adolescence, which requires a very thin and lanky appearance, and the tall and masculine girls willing or forced to starve themselves to present such looks are going to disproportionately come from regions comprising of a large number of poor individuals with a Northern European appearance.

Examples of a typical East European Slavic face and a beautiful feminine woman? - one does both "Silvia Saint" so beautiful it hurts to know she is in porn.
(Now your north european side can get offended about being dissed.)

Example of Slavs with fine features who are also north europeans(Nordics)? - Finns

You are wrong. Finns are not SLAVIC. They are Finno-Ugric peoples and have nothing to do with Slavs. Interestingly, Hungarians share ethnicity with Finns as also do Estonians. None of the are Slavic though.

as someone who works in fashion i ca attest to why they use Easter Europeans.

Physically, they tend to have longer limbs (Nadja Auermann), prominent cheekbones, cat eyes, and defined jaws(Natasha Poly, Anna Selezneva), and norhtern European coloring. They DO often have smaller builds naturally. COnsequently, they are able to get to teeny sizes and are able to have some curves. (Anja Rubik) Us stylists love dainty shoulders and nipped waists but most white women have too broad of builds (backs,ribs, shoulders) to maintain any feminity at a smaller size. Once they whittle down, they look soooo asexual. That is ok sometimes, but generally we like enough feminity to make sense of the clothes.

I totally agree about your comment on why a woman would want to be thin! That is the very reason why I lost weight. I see all these curvy women receiving vulgar comments from men, so I feel encouraged to become skinnier and more fragile looking so that I would not receive those comments. Since I have lost weight I don't get crude comments from men and I feel more respected. And I don't want to bash men for being forward with their sexuality, because curves are undoubtedly sexy, but not everyone wants that kind of attention. And I'm not gay, I just want men to see my face and personality before they start thinking about what they want to do to me.

I agree with Ingrid (btw dont give up so easily you were on the right track, erick doesnt know all the truth. yea its true that slavic women are more determined and poorer but the truth is alos, are more beautiful)I disagree with Erick.
eastern european girls are mixed adn thats why they are "overrepresented"
the designers dont pick eastern european who look northern, you are wrong. They pick girls who look exactly eastern european which is a mix of exotic slightly asian features with white, which are light blue eyes, light hair. This is it. there is no trick as they pick eastern european girls who look northern, no. they pick exactly what slavic girls are, which is a mix. we do look different from northern woman. we have fuller butts, smaller waists, fuller tighs, killer high cheekbones, and those cat eyes, "almond shaped eye".
Whoever cant accept it, is just jealous. yes, there is a subrace of white that is beautiful and exotic,with a perfect mix of orient and white.
northern woman tend to have big bones, not a lot of muscle weight, thin lips,flat cheekbones, bigger heads, eyebrows that are close to the eyes and eyes that are close together.
I love my slavic womane
I used to make my eyebrows really thin, to look more western european now im proud of my thick eyebrows ;)

also, this is my daughter. she is half polish, half american. she has my eyes and possesses the "slavic look"
here is alos a pic of my favorite model RIP Ruslana Korshunova
even if u mix a white woman with a asian man, or vice versa, you wont get the result like this. Ruslana looks like a white woman with sian features. ONLY in the Eastern Block u find girls who look like that.
White cat

You will find beautiful women everywhere. every country or subraces have its own distinct look.
Scandinavians often described as "nordic" look different from mediterraneans, who tend to have olive skin and dark hair.
Just like slavs possess thier own distinct look based on location, migrations, ethnic groups within countries and so fo.
I wouldnt say fashion designers like eastern european women because they are cheap and skinny, one must look beyong the surface to try to understand that we as tribes& nations have developed a significant look. Slavic girls are known to be petite, have prominent cheekbones and almond shaped eyes, those r 3 features you could easily count on. Same with germans, they tend to have blue eyes and light hair and a "german look"to them. Ive see it. same goes to every other nations. I dont think fashion designer perfer any look over the other, its all about variety.
Every culture, has its own special mixes of people. Take the best from both worlds and you will have a nice mix.
people from different parts of the world and country has an average look that seems to repeat itself.
Russia
Italy
>img src="http://images.ientrymail.com/famousdeaddb/ruslana-korshunova.jpg">
France
img src="http://i1025.photobucket.com/albums/y320/groobimubi/Lists/FrenchActresse...">
Germany
julia stenger
a common swedish look
British

Yulia: Please do not digress from the topic by posting a large number of pictures of women from different countries. No one disputes that attractive women are found in all populations.

You have made an alternative argument regarding why Eastern Europeans are overrepresented among high-fashion models, namely that Eastern European women are more attractive and that this increased attractiveness results from ethnic mixing. This argument can be examined.

I posted the pictures of the top 50 high-fashion models as of May 2007. Among these women there were plenty of Eastern Europeans: Sasha Pivovarova, Natalya Sergeyevna Polevshchikova (Natasha Poly), Snejana Onopka, Tanya Dziahileva, Vlada Roslyakova, Valentina Zelyaeva, Anna Mariya Urazhevskaya and Mariya Markina. If you include borderline eastern Europeans then you can add Anja Rubik, Tiiu Kuik, Hana Soukupova, Suvi Maria Koponen, Inguna Butane, Magdalena Frackowiak and Denisa Dvorakova. None of these women remotely looks like she is mixed with Asians. They are mostly of the northern variety, many lacking stereotypical Slavic features… this is not the outcome of ethnic mixing.

You can see a similar trend in websites/catalogs featuring Eastern European mail order brides: the most attractive/popular are usually the northern variety, those of mixed intra-European background are generally intermediate and those with visible Asian mixture are usually the least attractive.

That leaves the argument that northern European women of the eastern variety are better looking than their northern counterparts to the west. I do not wish to address this. This means that I have not properly defended the argument in the article on which you have commented, but your counter-argument is hardly an excellent one as I could post some pictures of my own… I do not have the time to more thoroughly address this issue.

Erik,
Your article is to explain why are eastern european models over represented in the fashin industry. You pointed out they are willing to do more to be thin and probably request less pay, you have alos indicated that they look musculine and boyish, and the disigners constantly look for eastern european with a norther european look.
So I disagree on that.
I agree on the fact that the 'post soviet union' girls are poorer therefor are willing to go far, to stay thin ect and require less pay on average.

as far as them looking norther, I dont think so, and thats why I presented those pictures above.
You can see a distinct difference between german models and sewdish models,not to mention british or even american!
that's already 4 different subraces of white, moving forward are mediterraneans, Italy, France and so for.

Slavic countires have variety of looks,from darker to lighter but all seems to have prominent cheekbones or/and almond shaped eyes. they pick blue eyed slavs to pose for mags,because its more of a contrast:)

exotic features and light eyes

Russia borders with the middle east and asia, thats where the mixing comes from.
its all in the history.
Poland, used to have ethnic groups but we were the first one to go thru "ethnic cleansing"

As far as me saying eastern european women are more beautiful, I didnt mean that, i meant they are beautiful women with a certain look that are now taking over the fashion industry.
when i was younger i wanted to look nordic,i dyed my hair blonde and wished my eyes were shaped diffrently and my face wasnt so wide. i didnt like my wide face and my bushy eyebrows because that was not the desired look. so chnage is always good so we all caught up on each other.

there is a trend for "nationality" and we tend to follow it.
The pictures I posted repeat a common look I find among women from different countires.

American models, German models,Brazilian, now it seems to be slavevery subrace gets their spotlight.

eastern european are cheap, they just have a certain look thats in right now.
the exotic look, people always want something new. i wonder whats next? a new hybird of people.

I've lived around the world due to my paretns profession and people really do have a look to them. after all,we used to be tribes.

anglo saxon,scandinavians,nordic,slavs,mediterans,arabs,persians and so fo.
even asians can tell you the difference between the Japaneses, and korean. every subrace has variations of looks that seem to repeat itself.

Ruslana looks a bit asian. if you look closely ,she has very high cheekbones, unsually shaped eyes and very thick hair. Look up history of Kazakhstan where she's from and you will see the variety of ethinic groups, including mongolains.

I agree with your article "willing to stay super thin" and cheaper is true.
i see that blue eyed girls are favored because of the contrast.
I just had to add, that there is a look the fashion industry likes right now that is largly found among eastern europeans. and fashion always changes.
the fact that they are cheaper and thinner is just a bonus.

Eastern European woman are popular in the fashion industry because of their unique features, that seem exotic/new/fresh to western europe, america, etc. All this talk of poor or cheap are excuses coming from insecure and jealous woman that wish they had an ounce of eastern european looks. It's very sad.

Apollyon, the first Slavic tribes in the world, around russia/ukraine/belarus were all blonde and blue eyed( or some type of light features) FYI. No one is copying North europeans because even if Eastern European girls are blonde blue eyed their features are still slavic. Natasha Poly, Sasha Pivovarova Natalya Vodianova etc. are prime examples.

I agree. I study human genetics, and if anybody is interested, there is a documantary called "Journey of Man" its a study done by doctor Spencer Wells, and in fact it was russian people who gave birth to the northerners, hence,such western nations like the british, germans and danish, are a product of slavs migration to the west, seperating themselves further from darker groups, like hindus,middle easterns and mongolians. the closer to the middle east and asia, the more exotic features, the further away, the more white. notice, most slavs dont turn red in the sun, they have a slightly olive skin tone, not to mention south slavs. and the famous cheekbones, u can deny that. almost every girl in eastern europe has high cheekbones, its like a trade mark. the gene polalso indicated that slavs have mixed background.

I dont think erik gets my train of thought. its ok,he's not a scientist :) one must look at people from a biological perspective to understand how genetics influence a persons appearance. it has evertyhing to do with it. see, asian women, are smaller, more gentle in build....therefore appear thiner..nordic women are known for being tall and strong in build. its common sense, why slavs tend to be thiner looking. they're just more petite. every race has its perks! every subrace. we all wish we had what we dont have

If you go back far enough, then we are Middle Eastern. Re: "No one is copying North europeans because even if Eastern European girls are blonde blue eyed their features are still slavic". Begs the question: why are more Northern Europeans blond and blue eyed?

Moscow was founded by the Vikings (as was Dublin). Rus comes from the Swedes. The Swedes had a huge influence on the formation of Russia. So, Russians, although Slavic, have a large dose of Scandinavian blood. Hence the blond hair and blue eyes occasionally seen in Russia (but less so further south).

Your point only confirms my statement that Slavs admire and wish to imitate Northern European looks. If what you describe is correct, then the more 'white' "the closer to the middle east and asia, the more exotic features, the further away, the more white" This would be the Northern Europeans. Russians would be, in effect, less 'white'. Fortunately the Swedes had a huge influence genetically and culturally on Russia.

there is another theory for that. hat all originated from africa, then traveled to India, from there to the Middle east and Asia, from Asia to Russia and from there to Northern Europe. So that would mean that slavs made northern europeans.

" agree. I study human genetics, and if anybody is interested, there is a documantary called "Journey of Man" its a study done by doctor Spencer Wells, and in fact it was russian people who gave birth to the northerners, hence,such western nations like the british, germans and danish, are a product of slavs migration "

You are a stupid fat moron. Slavs look nothing like British. That as an insult to Slavs. Slavs are different race from the Anglos and Nordics. Nordic women are also very ugly and have man-like faces and attitude. Slavs are feminine and slender. That documentary is false. Slavs originated from Asia, coud be Iran or India, and then went west. Slavs are mixtued people today with so much genes like Mongol, Huns, Turk, and Goths. That is why Slavic women are exotic.