In my own case, I know for certain that, again just as an example, had I treated my first wife with more love and care, quite certainly I could have minimized or even annuled the pending "negative karma". I am quite certain that this can be applied to all walks of life.

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‘The greatest mistake you can make in life is to be continually fearing you will make one.’ — Elbert Hubbard
“If you don’t learn from your mistakes, that’s the biggest mistake.” - Donald Trump

‘Many people dream of success. To me, success can only be achieved through repeated failure and introspection.’ — Soichiro Honda

‘Any man can make mistakes, but only an idiot persists in his error.’ — Marcus Tullius Cicero

‘One of the reasons mature people stop learning is that they become less and less willing to risk failure.’ — John W. Gardner

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One of the themes that came up with my friends was 'mistakes.' They wanted to avoid them and any sort of 'failure.' I felt 'mistakes' were 'hidden teachers' put in our path to help us learn what ever lesson we needed for the future. I didn't look at 'mistakes' as enemies to us as much as I looked at them as 'old friends' who taught us our lessons.

We have to take the 'good' with the 'bad' and make the 'best' out of it. We couldn't find the 'best' of it - until we embraced the good with the bad - and stopped worrying about the 'negative' aspect of some 'hidden failure.' (My friends were greatly influenced by the heaven and hell concept. I didn't believe in that after my NDE.)

To me, life in this world was about a journey to find your own inner and hidden heart. There are going to be mistakes along the way to help teach you what you need to know about that journey.

There is no doubt in my mind that you came through your horrific accident and NDE with some intense and soul-searching ideas and questions. But, I wonder if you haven't come through it all with a certain amount of bitterness over what happened. The reason I say this is because I remember being bitter and resentful after my own NDE.

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Going back over in my mind that time from the age of 18, my resentment wasn't the mystical aspect. It was the amnesia I had to suffer through in the aftermath. It was horrendous and caused massive migraine headaches. It was physical pain beyond description. It felt someone was standing behind me with a sledgehammer and pounding on top of my head. The NDE at the age of 18 was not my first - even though it 'appeared that way' in my amnesic mind. My Doctors, family and friends had all seen me 'die' before and come back to life. It was nothing new to them - even though it seemed new to me.

I had a very rare 'cardiac' condition at the age of six. I was constantly having seizures that led to cardiac and respiratory failure. There was not a person in my family who hadn't seen me dead for a period of five minutes or more during my childhood. One of my first NDE's was at the age of six and recorded by two trained and licensed physicians in a Doctors office. My Dad said that if he had to guess a number - he would guess that I died over a 1000 times from the age of 6 to the age of 17. My Doctors told me the same thing.

On my 18th birthday, it was like I was born into a new mind. My childhood became a 'past life' to me. I had no memory of it in normal sense. I didn't like being around people who knew me prior to my 18th birthday and moved away and started over. (When people tried to get me to remember my childhood that is when the sledgehammer pounding would start.)

I can remember my childhood now. I now have access to that 'past life' I lived during childhood. My first NDE was not at the age of six. It was the first time it got medical attention but the condition was something from my diaper years. My first 'out of body' experience was while I was in diapers. I was about a year old and kept the condition hidden away. I couldn't even speak sentences when I had my first NDE. My parents told me that when I first started talking I started with deeply profound mystical matters. They couldn't figure out where a child was getting those ideas.

I started talking about 'reincarnation' as soon as I began talking as a child. It was a theme I spoke of often throughout childhood with family members up to the age of 15. I didn't stop talking about it because it became less of theme in my young mind. I stopped talking about it because family members couldn't understand the parables I was using. (The agreement was reached between my Mom and I because I also had 'third eye' vision of a young friends future life and knew he was going to die as a teenager and never reach adulthood. My Mother didn't want to know this and considered it sacred knowledge from God's mouth to my ears. I tended to agree with her after awhile.)

So it was strange having my mind flip. Everyone in my family was waiting for me to reach adult hood because I had swore I would never talk to them again about the 'mystical' insights until I reached a mature age. (They had authority over my mind in raising me and I didn't want them replacing my understanding with their fundamentalism.)

I spent the first year after my NDE at 18 going around and interviewing every family member I grew up with. (My Doctors had advised this.) Every family member who had been around me in childhood said two things when describing me. Happy and mystical. When I made new friends from the age of 18 to 21, I would ask them to describe me - and compare me to others they had met. They said the same thing. Happy and mystical.

I did have 'mystical insight' to reincarnation at the age of 18 and I tossed it aside. I didn't feel that sort of thing was practical. I was more concerned with the here and now. It was a like a theme that 'haunted me' and wouldn't go away. The more I tried to run from it the more it came after me. Sort of like a shadow and every time I turned around, there it was. (To illustrate how quick it came haunting. I had to meet with one of the Police Officers who investigated the accident. I told him, "I can remember you when you wore a different body. I don't remember anything about you in this new body of yours but I have a ton of memories when you were in your old body. How can that be?) That was a cop who knew me when I was 15 years old. This happened a great deal with people. I wouldn't be able to recall anything about their current live but memories of them being in a different body would flood my mind and I was trying to figure out why. If they couldn't remember it, why should I. The saying, if ya can't remember something it must not be that important took hold. I was trying to look for a switch and switch it off. (I found the switch and don't offer this as a service. It was very troublesome for me.)

As far as the 'mystical trip' I could remember at the age of 18, I didn't feel any sort of resentment or bitterness about that. I was very happy about that sort of insight. I had no fear of death what so ever. Many people I spoke with back in those days all walked with some sort of fear of the 'unknown of death.' I was a very harmonious and content lad back in my day.

The only drawback for me was the loss of memories and having to live my adult life as if it was a 'new incarnation' and walking in 'denial' of my past life in childhood. It was an introduction how this life does have a 'denial' factor involved in us all concerning past life memories.

I did meet with 10 other teens who had suffered a life threatening physical trauma that led to loss of vital signs. I found the resentment and bitterness factor wasn't so much to do with the mystical element involved as the rehabilitation process of trying to recovery from the scars of the injuries we carried inside as well as outside. Five had memories of the "Light" while the other five didn't. The rehabilitation of the physical trauma was the same regardless of the memories of an out of body experience or mystical trip into the light.

Proving that reincarnation is real is a little like proving that the color red is real. For someone who can see the color for themselves no proof is necessary, but for someone who is blind, or color blind we can only present evidence that there is such a thing. Each person who cannot see the color red for themselves must then decide if they find the evidence convincing.

Or as Dr. Stevenson has noted, there may not be enough evidence to prove reincarnation, but there is enough evidence to make believing in reincarnation a reasonable thing to do.

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I found some interesting poll results concerning the belief in reincarnation.

According to a 2005 Gallup poll, 20 percent of U.S. adults believe in reincarnation. Recent surveys by the Barna Group, a Christian research nonprofit organization, have found that a quarter of U.S. Christians, including 10 percent of all born-again Christians, embrace reincarnation as their favored end-of-life view.

Democrats are more likely than Republicans to say they believe in reincarnation (by 14 percentage points)

Only 10% of white evangelicals believe in reincarnation while 24% of mainline Protestants and 25% of white Catholics believe in it.

According a Harris Poll survey conducted late last year, (2009) approximately 24 percent of Americans believe in reincarnation while 68 percent believe in the survival of the soul after death.

Notably, reincarnation was the least believable items on The Harris Poll’s list of things people believe in, which included miracles, heaven, angels, the devil, ghosts, UFOs, and witches, among others.

8% of respondents in a recent FOX News/Opinion Dynamics poll say they believe there is a chance that Elvis could be alive.

I fall into another demographic poll result.

Amber Wells was a student at the University of Connecticut and wrote a research paper based on her study of the near-death experience for her senior honors thesis under the direction of Dr. Ken Ring. Her paper was published in the Journal of Near-Death Studies in the fall of 1993. In her study, 70 percent of the group of near-death experiencers demonstrated belief in reincarnation. In contrast, a Gallup Poll found that only 23 percent of the general population endorse this belief. Previous research has indicated that, following a near-death experience, the group tended to exhibit a significant shift in their beliefs on a wide range of subjects including a general tendency toward an increased openness to the idea of reincarnation. Ms. Wells' study was designed to examine the factors underlying this belief shift.Reincarnation and NDE Research

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After my NDE in 1978 - I had to do my own study. The investigators wanted permission to go public with their report. They felt it was a verifiable miracle that I was alive. My car had been traveling at 140 MPH and had a head on collision with a embankment. I walked away without a scratch on the outside - but a ton of reconstructive surgery had been done to repair the internal injuries. This was all verified with medical reports then and in later years. I had to consent before allowing those files to go public. I didn't want to talk about it as a teenager. I still haven't signed consent.

So - in my own private research - I went to the scholarly minds of the University's and spoke to many a mind on various subjects including psychology, science, theology, sociology and on and on. I eventually was led to politicians and spoke to Democrats and Republicans alike.

The question over and over was - what sort of impact would it have on society and the minds of - if the belief factor took a dramatic swing from a minority opinion to the majority opinion?

Things haven't changed much. The two who opposed it most were the Republican mindset and the Evangelical mindset. They felt a popular belief in reincarnation would destroy our American way of life. So they were not fighting against a 'belief' per say - as much as they felt 'immature' minds wouldn't be able to handle that sort of dramatic mystical truth without falling into major obstacles and creating more problems than solving. They felt that sort of truth had to remain hidden under the carpet. Those who had a need for it - would find the lump (parable expression) and go for what they needed to know while leaving the rest undisturbed.

If I signed consent and people started asking me questions about the 'afterlife, the miracle that took place, the why's and what for's were going to led me to stand by the truth as it was given to me to know. I couldn't avoid the theme. It was inevitable for it to come out in my own testimony.

(I had studied my own physical and medical evidence - and every Doctor who has had sight of it has said the same thing. Once released to the public mainstream - it will be a catalyst for world change on opinion about the 'afterlife' and a 'higher power' that produces miracles. If I went down tomorrow for a medical image - the same 'signs' of a miracle are still present inside of me. I have insight that tells me - this is going to happen before the end of this year.)

So I have been intrigued by the idea behind fiziwig's question for many years now.

Going back to my own research question after my NDE, how would it change society if popular opinion and belief in 'reincarnation' was the majority opinion instead of a minority opinion. If people were able to embrace this as a truth - openly (without the ridicule associated with UFO's attached,) how would it change how we inter-react with one another on spiritual matters of faith?

What are the benefits of a belief in reincarnation as opposed to the benefits of 'non-belief' in reincarnation? Just curious what others here have an opinion on regarding that.

To give you all an impression of how much attention my medical evidence got 'behind the scenes' away from the public's eye, it led to a private telephone call from the then President. I had a nice down home chat with him about many things including the responsibility of leadership. (He was a country boy at heart so it was very easy to have a pleasant conversation with him.)

He was facing the 'energy crisis' and we spoke about this as well. I wanted to remain my own independent contractor - and shied away from getting directly involved with too much government business, but it opened up doors to discuss the matter with political minds in positions of leadership. (I was just a teenager and my main interest was music, cars and looking for the right mate for pleasure with this body of mine.)

I don't think it comes as a surprise to anyone now a days - how cloak and dagger the government is about many things. I was told that government agencies had funded many various projects in the past concerning reincarnation and came up with surprising results leading to a positive conclusion in the reality of it.

What was their angle and take on it? If a person had died who had access to top level secret information concerning national security interests - what sort of protection did the government have - if this 'person' was born anew in another incarnation. Would the vital information be vulnerable to exposure and put the Nation's interest in jeopardy? If a person swore out an oath in a previous incarnation - would he be bound to continue his obligation and duty to his country? What if he was born into a new incarnation and became a national of a country that was considered an 'enemy of the state' as Russia was looked at back in the day? Would his new alliance with the 'enemy' make him a traitor to his old country - or - were there safeguards in place with 'spiritual laws' that individual souls had to adhere to. What protection would society have if these spiritual laws were violated?

I had no answers to all these questions.

My Grandfather was my spiritual adviser on all matters after my NDE and I consulted with him after I spoke to the government minds. My Grandpa referred me to a scripture which he thought applied literally as well as figuratively.

Luke 11:52, "Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered."

I was naive at that time and asked him why he felt that applied. He told me most politicians start out as lawyers.

When it comes to reincarnation being a proven scientific fact - what would happen if 'Nazi hunters' tracked down the location of Hitler incarnated into a new body. Would they be as forgiving as God had been and let his last life slide un-noticed or would there be legal ramifications to be met since reincarnation would be legally recognized as a fact. Would the world pick up the ball and try to prosecute criminals from the past who had avoided prosecution before?

As one official mind expressed to me - declaring 'reincarnation' as a fact of life, would open up a whole new can of worms that many minds in position of leadership didn't want to have to address.

Just food for thought that was presented to me when it comes to scientifically proving reincarnation as a fact of life.

I hope that your inherent knowledge and wisdom will forgive the fact that so many of us are reasonably leery of such claims as you've mentioned on this Forum as well as your impressive website. My own background is but a humble example of how people have been lied to, and told to have blind faith in things that have no acceptable proof. I, and many like me, still bear the physical and emotional scars of lies that were fed to us by our church, our teachers, our parents and our government. Thus, there would be little wonder, if some people react with pronounced discernment and doubt.

You are very fortunate to be in the position of personal conviction, experience, and validation that has been made available. Your proximity to friends and family, who have been convinced of your claims, is also a very fortunate circumstance, not only for them, but for you as well. However, most of us here are not so fortunate. I'm sure you can understand the difficulty I would have in accepting your claims at face value. God knows, that I would like to have validation of what you seem to know, because I wish to believe in something that puts our knowledge in a proper perspective. The truth is important to us all.

So much of what you say sounds reasonable, but we have all been led down the rosy path of fantasy before. Most of us have already placed our faith in one thing or another, and we've been badly burned by doing so. I would like to think that our minds are still open in spite of our bad experiences; but that you might also understand the bitter tinge of resentment some of us might have for unsubstantiated claims.

I do believe that many of us are able to "feel" some truths within the depths of our souls; and I would dare say that many of us here share the same common belief that the soul is immortal, and that reincarnation is a fact. But, when we get into the nitty-gritty of the details, we have only our personal experiences and memories to guide us the rest of the way. As for spirit guides and mediums, unless we each have had our own validation of such things, it is difficult for us to suspend our doubts.

It may be quite true, as you say, that we have the means within ourselves to discern and experience the truth. However, one might bear in mind, that many of us have already been searching with every means possible for truths that remain obscured by an impenetrable barrier. And some of us have justifiable reasons to wonder what we might have done in the past to deserve the karma that keeps us in ignorance.

As regards your question as to the benefits of either belief or non-belief in reincarnation, I personally see no benefit whatsoever any kind of ignorance, whether it is self imposed or forced upon us by any means and for any reason. If it exists, we MUST know the truth. And I believe that we must keep searching for the truth with every means at our disposal. And, to accept anything on pure faith is to stop searching.

If a person had died who had access to top level secret information concerning national security interests - what sort of protection did the government have - if this 'person' was born anew in another incarnation. Would the vital information be vulnerable to exposure and put the Nation's interest in jeopardy? If a person swore out an oath in a previous incarnation - would he be bound to continue his obligation and duty to his country? What if he was born into a new incarnation and became a national of a country that was considered an 'enemy of the state' as Russia was looked at back in the day? Would his new alliance with the 'enemy' make him a traitor to his old country - or - were there safeguards in place with 'spiritual laws' that individual souls had to adhere to. What protection would society have if these spiritual laws were violated?

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I agree this can open a very messy can of worms. For example, I strongly believe I was a high-level member of a "secret society" in a PL -- one that wouldn't even let me in today because of my sex. And I personally think secret societies are dangerous because they can easily be infiltrated by criminals that can use that secrecy and the power of its collective members to get away with some really horrible things. Am I under any obligation to this secret society not to divulge anything I might still remember about it, because I took an oath in a PL? Interesting question ...

As regards your question as to the benefits of either belief or non-belief in reincarnation, I personally see no benefit whatsoever any kind of ignorance, whether it is self imposed or forced upon us by any means and for any reason. If it exists, we MUST know the truth. And I believe that we must keep searching for the truth with every means at our disposal. And, to accept anything on pure faith is to stop searching.

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Hi Nightrain,

I appreciate your comments and it triggered recall of a conversation I had with my Grandfather the summer after my NDE at the age of 18. My Grandfather knew me better than any other man alive. He had been at the hospital the night I was born and had gone though the mystical side effects of my multiply NDE's as a child. He was once again called to my side to help me adjust to an adult mind.

I could not recall the times in the past I had spoken to him about mystical insights to reincarnation as he had a memory of. I told him I was being haunted by the theme. I wanted to put it aside and go on but every time I turned around I was 'seeing' someone as they existed in another life time. My Grandfather was at a loss and I asked him if he believe me. He told me,

"Grandson, the most a man can do in this sort of case is believe you believe. It would be hard for your Grandpa, even knowing you as I do to take you at your word on such matters."

I told him he was right. I told him,

"Do you trust God on such matters? Then ask God for the truth about what I am dealing with. Let God give you testimony of what I am dealing with."

My Grandfather was divided because his religion taught against such matters. He told me I was right and wouldn't have expected me to ask anything less of him.

He did his own meditations and prayers specifically designed toward our personal conversation. He came back to me awhile later and told me he had gotten word from God on the matter and had a direct belief in what I was telling him.

He told me that a couple of spirits visited him in the night. He was astonished by the whole memory of it and told me he wasn't about to tell anyone else what he was going to reveal to me. He didn't think other minds would understand. (He was referring to other family members.)

They (the two spirits) told my Grandfather why they were there and who sent them. They spoke for awhile about the matter and then they told him to research a scripture and allow his heart to interrupt the scripture based on my dialogue with him. He told me he felt that was how the scripture was designed. To seek counsel with spirit and not with a man made institution of Church. He told me that he realized that a Church could take on the role of being a 'false teacher' concerning spiritual matters.

When I choose to talk to friends later about the revelations coming to me directly I always used my experience with my Grandfather as a reference. I never expect anyone take me at my word concerning my own direct experiences. I always ask the same thing I asked my Grandfather.

"Ask God for the truth."

I have told many people this over the years and I was surprised how many people told me - it don't work that way. I would reply and tell them,

"There is the problem."

I don't think science or religion is meant to be a substitute for the real deal. Every religion in the world could start preaching a theory on reincarnation but that preaching isn't going to eliminate personal doubts. Every science journal in the world could start publishing evidence or testimony in support of reincarnation and even that is not going to eliminate personal doubt. In my experiences when a person established a direct and intimate relationship with the Creator of their own personal understanding then spirit would work wonders though it's own path and give their mind direct information that eliminates all doubt.

My confidence isn't derived from my experiences. My confidence comes from the fact that I have the greatest witness in the world who will back me up 100% if called on in spirit. I don't speak or write on any spiritual matter unless I am assured I have that backing.

Hi all,
This is a debate forum, and not a classroom, which is why I stepped back for a while hoping others would join in before replying. I believe the vast majority of us here have undergone one or more experiences that have been beyond our normal understanding of "reality", and have come here in an attempt to share them and learn from others. I know that all the years in which I have been participating here have been a wonderful opportunity to do so.

Gary, I have already apologised for having entered the debate, after having been away for so long, in a manner which may have come across as a "bite in the but", but the real reason behind it was my concern that any kids coming into this forum might start believing that, under the realization that we are in our essence indestructible and eternal Souls, one is free to act as one pleases with no consequences, seeing as "we are already perfect beings and will end up in Heaven anyway". From my own experience, I believe (or rather "know") this not to be true.

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Should we also be worried that children who come to believe in reincarnation might figure since they get another chance anyway, when things get too tough in this life, they might as well end it and start over?

I think that more than anything else we need to understand how important it is for us to be here, in the life we are in right now. There's no short cuts. If you skip this class you will have to take it again.

I know, that contradicts my earlier statement about life just being a "game". But I don't mind contradicting myself, given that everything I believe is just a series of wild guesses anyway. In all likelihood I'm not only wrong, but I'm so far wrong that while in human incarnation I couldn't even begin to comprehend how things really are!

I'm sure realty is WAAAAAY more strange than anything we could ever imagine.

Charles Stuart said:

One other thing (and in this I am aware that I run the risk of "shooting my own foot") is that, to the best of my knowledge, there are several "spheres" to the Spiritual Realms, and that the Soul or Spirit, when it leaves the physical body, finds itself in the sphere most coherent with the vibrations of its state of consciousness. If it is true that "consciousness creates" in the physical realms, this is even more so in the spiritual. Just because a Soul is in the spiritual realms, this does not mean that it is instantly struck by a bolt of lightning and is suddenly aware of all the answers. One other thing is that, from what I know, one thing the Spirits do in the Spiritual Realms is to study also, for not even they have the answers to all the questions...
Charles

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I really hope that's true. Yes, I know I really like the theory that reality is just some kind of "game", but I also really like the theory that this physical plane is a kind of classroom.

I guess I'll have to be satisfied with believing one thing on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays, and something else on Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Saturdays, with time off for deep and unbiased soul searching on Sundays.

The one thing I really know for sure is that no matter how certain one is of one's beliefs, there's a better than even chance that those beliefs are completely wrong. In spite of how deep and profound a mystical experience we might have had, or how amazing and NDE we might have experienced, (no offense DK) we are still left to interpret what we have experienced, and we are still, as humans, very likely to interpret it wrong.

I think the most important aspect to attaining wisdom is learning to be comfortable with uncertainty; to be OK with not knowing for sure. Most people are not OK with uncertainty, so they grasp too readily at the easy answers.

Should we also be worried that children who come to believe in reincarnation might figure since they get another chance anyway, when things get too tough in this life, they might as well end it and start over?

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Don't do that, kids, silly thing to do. You'll just have start all over again. By taking away your own life, you will just bring more suffering unto yourselves, and to those you love and who love you as well. And you will miss your Mum and Dad like crazy!!!!

As I said, "no hell is eternal", and things do always look brighter in the morning after a good night's sleep. It is the gift we receive every day to start a new life afresh!!!

You can change your lives at any time. Sometimes you might feel that it will only change after some time. Be patient!!! But rest assured that it will!!!

Just as we hold no right to take another's life, the same applies to ourselves. We are here for a reason, and the reason is to live our lives and learn from them, and evolve as the Soul-Consciousnesses that we are. By taking one's own life one is simply delaying a process that will most probably have to be repeated again anyway. So don't do it, kids!!!!

The knowledge of the afterlife is a comfort. Not a burden...

Gary, I DO agree with you with A LOT of what I have seen you share here over the years, including what you have said in your last post. I believe the greatest mistake anyone can make regarding spirituality is to assume the position of "I am right and you are wrong". All we need do is look back at history to understand that. And I believe we also know how much of an error this is even to this date...

I think the most important aspect to attaining wisdom is learning to be comfortable with uncertainty

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This reminds me of somthing that I heard before that the only way we can reach our potential in life is to learn to be comfortable with being uncomfortable. In order to grow, we much expand beyond our current boundaries, and the only way this is achieved is through being outside of our comfort zone.

Most people are not OK with uncertainty, so they grasp too readily at the easy answers.

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I believe this is the backbone of virtually all organized religion. People fear the uncertainty of what is not understood. Religions of all shapes and sizes, all are the world, provide for them the answers they crave, and gives them piece of mind. Whether it is a tradition that is thousands of years old, or someone who says they have had the truth revealed to them, it lifts that uncertainty from people's consciousness.
We all would like to know for sure, but we won't until we get there.

Not everyone is aware of the personal repercussions of suicide, let alone the hurt that it causes others; and your words are certainly helpful and profound. I do believe that many people throughout history have feared the possibility of reincarnation, due to their belief that others may take the "easy" way out.

I don't know how much of a deterrent was presented by the church, when they considered suicide a "mortal" sin worthy of eternal damnation; but I suspect that it may have served its purpose well during certain periods. However, we have witnessed a tremendous increase in suicide during the past fifty or so years. I believe that this may be attributed to the impact of knowledge brought about by new media and technologies, which have eroded the degree of trust people once held in church doctrine. Kids are especially prone to believing that they've been lied to, and their reactions tend to include dangerous behavior even more than suicide.

I think that the concept of reincarnation may serve as more of a new deterrent for such behavior than is commonly believed; because one is encouraged to be responsible for their actions. Karma, just as you indicated, dictates that dangerous behavior as well as suicide will only lead to a necessary repeat of whatever we are here for.

For me, the period between religious doubt and reincarnation's promise was the most dangerous period of my life, and a time in which I was most at risk. With a greater understanding of reincarnation, I became more able to face the difficult choices of life, and I was better able to cope with the dangers that came with those choices. Your words, "The knowledge of the afterlife is a comfort -- not a burden!" rang more true than any church dogma ever did.

I would feel that it behooves us to encourage awareness of reincarnation, because it actually makes this life more tolerable, especially for those who have lost their faith in other things. I don't believe that reincarnation would enable suicide or dangerous behavior, as long as it is presented with an understanding of how Karma works. That way, it will perceived as a comfort, rather than a burden.

I liked what Lagrima said....- and to get back on topic even if this is an old thread. It's a good one.

I agree with the majority of what you are saying regarding the inability to confirm- without any doubts- reincarnation by proving the existence of the soul.
But, I also believe that each person, depending upon where they are spiritually in their beliefs, holds a different threshold of proof regarding reincarnation. In other words, what I need to be convinced of reincarnation is very different than what others may need. Some require much more proof than others and science can be a strange thing.

For example, would you argue with me that the sky is blue? Doubtful. We believe the sky is really blue because we see it with our own eyes and are told it is blue. You don't need science to prove to you the sky is blue do you?

Yet, scientifically speaking, the sky has no color at all as it is made out of air. The colors we see in the sky are the result of light scattering, air moisture etc. But, forget science- I still say the sky is blue.

We are perfect beings and we already know everything it is possible to know. The problem is, that perfect existence is boring beyond belief, so we created a huge game called "physical reality" were we enter into this make-believe reality just to have fun. Not every soul chooses to play this particular game, but we did, because here we are. Fiziwig

This thread holds too much information to read in one session. I've been reading for some hours now (need a break). It's a pleasant experience to read, to agree, to disagree and to reflect by myself.
I did notice it was a highly male energy discussion (I am halfway by now): The meaning of proof and logic, the meaning of Life... and so on.
The good thing: all the participants talk from own life experiences and do not rely on outer authorities to back their personal belief system.

Yes, great thread, but what has been mended with It? Still no foundation to stand on, as reality, true reality, is what is needed to form any real conclusion to build on.........what is life? Anyone's guess can be as real as another's guess. The best one discussed here, as far as my guess goes, is about life being a game. For surely, if the soul is immortal, then it knows all things and therefore we cannot be here to learn anything, logically listening to my own unicorn. The Facts? Who really knows Them? Not I nor anyone else here, is my guess. Who knows if everything we think we know, or think we don't, have not been programmed into our minds? There is only one Master of reality. And my guess is that that Master is the only one who knows; I call him God, but we are free to call him anything we want, as he takes no offense, even if one calls him non-existent, or swears by or at him.

But then who cares what others believe, and as someone mentioned on this thread, live and let live. As there is only one that lives and lets die; the same one that, alone, knows reality.

But then who cares what others believe, and as someone mentioned on this thread, live and let live.

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I, for one, found the different perspectives interesting and a bit mind-expanding giving me some mental exercise I suppose.

The topic was "Is Reincarnation Real?" which is perhaps beyond current scientific determination at this time. And, since my personal experiences do not include such memories, that question remains somewhat unanswered for me.

After reading your thoughts I was left with the question of why you thought that we were here to experience "Life" in the first place? What purpose, in your opinion, does it serve - and why would it take it more that one lifetime?

It appears that you have gone beyond the question posd here, how did you do that?

All those 'logical' questions are part of the (active) Yang approach.
It is my honest opinion that this approach is not enough to understand the origin and the meaning of life. If there are origin and meaning at all. The solution is not even found in the receptive Yin, but to be found in the melting pot of paradoxes.
It is also my opinion that people who really understand the most, talk the less about it. Just because they know there is nothing to be said.If for example, I discovered the meaning of life: it's my story, my level of understanding which might not correspond with yours. My words, my dictionary, my visions cannot be transferred to someone else. And often there doesn't exist words to describe the deepest insights one can have. Words are cripple and blind and the experience of the Almighty is beyond words.
I don't pretend I am enlightened or a sage or so, not at all, but I do have experiences now and then in which I have access to greater concepts, other dimensions, sometimes explanations that really make 'sense' to me. In those states I 'know', I 'understand', and later on (back on earth) it all slips through my fingers as grains of sand. I desperately try to seek words as a translation of the experience, so my mind will be able to record it. The mind is not capable of grasping the whole 'picture'. it takes your soul to merge with the concepts for a real understanding.

To give an example:
Some time ago I had the experience/vision of a Sun and a Moon that were both at the same time. In this experience, I was the Sun, I was the Moon, I felt the merging, I understood what it meant to be individual and multiple at the same time. It was just more than a beautiful vision/hallucination of a Sun and a Moon.... it was me, it was my energy and it was at the same time me and somebody else...
I knew this was like 'going back to Source' on a smaller scale.... merging, to become 'One' but not dying or losing 'self'... at (free) will there could be separation again ... in this timeless and endless cycle of 'existence' .
How can I describe the experience of me being Sun and Moon at the same time, and not being Sun and Moon at the same time, because I moved from outside inwards inside this energy. Only once I was inside, I knew it was all me, and at the same time other(s), and at the same time I knew and understood a lot of information/concepts about eternity and the never ceasing cycles beyond time.

Logic is no tool for this. Words are not adequate enough. I can only tell that I felt deeply what it meant to be individual and multiple at the same time. I cannot transfer this to another person's mind.

Another example
I read several times in this thread that people are concerned about being bored in the afterlife. Sounds familiar because I had the same feeling/opinion when I was younger. I thought duality was fun, necessary and in some sort of way the meaning of life.
When I was in my twenties I once went to a free class of Zen meditation (walking meditation). I was not used to meditating so I thought that could be some thing worth to try. So me and my boyfriend went there one night. We followed the rituals and instructions and afterward we would get a talk about our experience.
Well, I hated it. I really hate Zen (still do, hahaha). But I didn't complain and completed the long (!) session. But... somewhere during my practice of walking meditation, suddenly it was as if there was a huge Buddha present in a lotus position, a living Buddha. It was like a projection in that room, the living Buddha was huge and went through wall and ceiling. He looked at me and smiled.That smile! It gave me all the answers I didn't even know I was looking for. He gave me the definition of peace, the balance. Being at peace was not dull, it was vibrant, full of life and energy. It gave me so much information, really life changing in some sort of way (a spiritual way), mindblowing. Peace was not boring, the afterlife was not dull... I understood it all.... (even now when I think back).
The funny part was this talk at the end of our free class of Zen meditation. They asked us about the experience and wanted to know if we would join that community center. The moment I started talking about my vision, this girl almost fell over me saying this kind of experiences were wrong and not the goal of meditation. Yeah... I KNOW... but it happened... and I wanted to talk about it, feedback, but NO... no way... they bluntly refused to talk about it.
Anyway, I've always cherished this experience as one of my spiritual gems that I've been collecting over the years. So much information felt by the soul in only a few seconds and a lifelong impact.
Impossible to explain in words.

I did not understand the thread's intent to be "mending", just members expressing their understandings - differing perspectives.

I see no innate correlation between "immortal" and "knows all things", how would that happen without experience? As you said "What is life?"

I, for one, found the different perspectives interesting and a bit mind-expanding giving me some mental exercise I suppose.

The topic was "Is Reincarnation Real?" which is perhaps beyond current scientific determination at this time. And, since my personal experiences do not include such memories, that question remains somewhat unanswered for me.

After reading your thoughts I was left with the question of why you thought that we were here to experience "Life" in the first place? What purpose, in your opinion, does it serve - and why would it take it more that one lifetime?

It appears that you have gone beyond the question posd here, how did you do that?

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Ken, we are all traveling on eternity road, and perhaps we are trying to find our own peace of mind, as I recall from a song. The "mending" was a pun on the word thread, since there were many opinions put forth, but no one main idea accepted, except the subject of reincarnation. And we all know just how unstable is to prove reincarnation. Regarding learning and experiences, these are temporal events and quite separate from the eternal realm of existence. To be immortal is to be eternal, and to be eternal is to be outside of time. Time is of the physical world, where the immortals come to "play" and pretend. And if we have a soul we are these immortals. If you want to understand better my first post, then you must try to understand eternity. What and where is eternity? If you can grasp the concept that time is a created thing, and that the soul is prior to time, then you are on the road to understanding, or rather, recollection, as you already know all things and understand it all, but have forgotten, so as to play the game of life. Someone used the analogy of the movie theater most appropriately, to express this concept of life being a game of pretend, such as is a movie, and that perhaps many do not want to wake up to reality, because we are here exactly for that purpose, pretending we are mortals. And when sages and idiots alike enlighten us, they are only, perhaps, spoiling the fun of our game, and want no part of it. These skeptics, as we call them, scientific or not, will never accept enlightenment because they just want to have fun here. And maybe we, those who see life in reality, as someone stated here, should just let those skeptics alone and let them live their game of life as long as possible. These are the same ones that will return back to eternity last, and by the longer and winding road, and will enter by the wide gate. Those that recall earlier who we are, and the rules of this game of life, are those that will, by adhering to these rules and the prizes awarded, return to eternity by a straighter road, and will enter by the narrow gate. It's a put on, this life in a physical body. For what has an immortal soul to do in eternity, when we already know all and done everything zillion and zillion of times in Infinity? My very wise aunt used to tell me that we don't know what we have until we lose it. Therefore, we drink the waters from the river of forgetfulness, which no vessel can hold, then come to the physical world, our eternal and ever changing amusement park, and pass time away, forgetting what we really have and are, only to rediscover our treasures and absolute fortune when we return back home to the kingdom of God, or whatever we want to call our eternal realm of being, which is never changing, and never ending, as it never began, and has always been an eternal IS. Let us continue and exchange thought provocative ideas here, but remember that we are all just a bunch of plagiarists. Past life Regressions, in my opinion, spoils the fun. And where was PLR in the past? We know reincarnation was known to us a few millennium ago, but where was regression back then? The popularity with PLR is just like clothing styles, it just came in vogue, and now everyone is pretending to remember what we are already pretending, life and previous lives.....? Just part of the same game, and just another layer of pretending.

The popularity with PLR is just like clothing styles, it just came in vogue, and now everyone is pretending to remember what we are already pretending, life and previous lives.....? Just part of the same game, and just another layer of pretending.

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Please explain more detail Native Son.

What is this 'pretending'? Do you have a story to share perhaps? Or have I missed something?