18 Comments

MovingAlmost as good as last year’s episode with Madamme de Pompadour.

Cerberus7June 9, 2007 @ 10:03 am

Re: MovingI finally got a chance to see this ep. Moving, indeed. That’s good television.

Karrde712June 4, 2007 @ 5:47 am

Everyone’s a critic, especially meSpoiler guarded for maximum fun.

The Good: Seeing The Doctor as a human being really clicked, for some reason. He was believable, and you really sympathized with the choice he was going to have to make. He really managed to make us question the choices we would have made in his place.The Bad: Considering everything else that went on in that episode, the ending was really disjointed. The cold, distant Doctor who dispassionately condemns the hunters to, essentially, roll stones uphill for eternity is a very different side of him. The Doctor up to this point has been much more of a twig in the river. Drifting along, occasionally altering the course slightly, but ultimately being the "Lonely God" spoken of by the Face of Bo. This new Doctor now comes across as something more of a villain than a hero.

y42June 4, 2007 @ 7:55 am

Re: Everyone’s a critic, especially me

The Doctor up to this point has been much more of a twig in the river. Drifting along, occasionally altering the course slightly, but ultimately being the "Lonely God" spoken of by the Face of Bo. This new Doctor now comes across as something more of a villain than a hero.

That’s the "don’t frak with me" Doctor: the Coming Storm.He gave them a chance to fade away on their own, but they just HAD to get him heart broken again.

I bet the Daleks thought of him as a flitter in a river too, before he gave them reason to find a more suitable nickname.

lostJune 4, 2007 @ 10:47 am

Re: Everyone’s a critic, especially me

The Bad: Considering everything else that went on in that episode, the ending was really disjointed. The cold, distant Doctor who dispassionately condemns the hunters to, essentially, roll stones uphill for eternity is a very different side of him. The Doctor up to this point has been much more of a twig in the river. Drifting along, occasionally altering the course slightly, but ultimately being the "Lonely God" spoken of by the Face of Bo. This new Doctor now comes across as something more of a villain than a hero.

His behaviour at the end of the episode was not really out of character, even going back to the original series. The Doctor has made some very hard decisions after spending a lot of effort to find a better way out. I particularly liked the narration at the end with the comment that he wasn’t being a coward but rather he was being kind. It was an excellent way to demonstrate the Doctor’s sheer power and ability without having to bludgeon us with it week in and week out.

In fact, it provides us with a peg on which to hang some of his more inane or seemingly simplistic behaviour. He makes every possible effort to avoid the hard-ass solution, the violent solution, etc., but in the end he makes the hard call. He always has made the hard call. It is, perhaps, that character trait that explains why he destroyed the time lords to end the time war.

Karrde712June 4, 2007 @ 11:01 am

Re: Everyone’s a critic, especially me

In fact, it provides us with a peg on which to hang some of his more inane or seemingly simplistic behaviour. He makes every possible effort to avoid the hard-ass solution, the violent solution, etc., but in the end he makes the hard call. He always has made the hard call. It is, perhaps, that character trait that explains why he destroyed the time lords to end the time war.

My problem here is that he didn’t simply take the "violent solution" here. There were far kinder courses of action he could have taken. He instead chose to dispose of his enemies in a fashion that would make many a demon pause. That’s where I see him coming across as a villain. If he was reluctant to do anything about them before, why would he change so drastically? There was no justice in his actions; they were an act of pure vengeance. He could have killed them quickly and had done with it.

lostJune 4, 2007 @ 11:19 am

Re: Everyone’s a critic, especially me

My problem here is that he didn’t simply take the "violent solution" here. There were far kinder courses of action he could have taken. He instead chose to dispose of his enemies in a fashion that would make many a demon pause. That’s where I see him coming across as a villain. If he was reluctant to do anything about them before, why would he change so drastically? There was no justice in his actions; they were an act of pure vengeance. He could have killed them quickly and had done with it.

Right. I wasn’t disagreeing on the villain front although I didn’t make it clear in my comment. I can see the Doctor making that type of decision, however, even based on previous characterisations in the original series. As a matter of fact, there are elements that indicate him going in that direction near the end of the original series. Given what we know of his role in the time war, I can see that having been a trigger that set him going down a path "to the dark side" (I can’t think of a better comparison). I can see him doing something like this as a "deterrent" (with varying levels of success).

As I said, I’m not disputing the villainous aspect of his actions. I am saying that I can reconcile the actions with what I know of the Doctor over the years. I’m actually not sure how I feel about coming to that kind of realization or what it could mean for the show. I mean, on the one hand it has great potential for great stories. On the other hand, it has such potential to be bungled big time. That there is a great darkness in a heroic character perhaps provides a reason for the companions (as moderators)? Also, if they intend to follow through on the Lonely God angle, having that level of duality in the Doctor could make for some very interesting stories.

Time will tell.

y42June 5, 2007 @ 8:42 am

Re: Everyone’s a critic, especially meI think you guys need to read more myths about the gods.

Creative vengeance isn’t out of character for a (lonely) god, it’s the most common personality trait.

sinesurferNZJune 6, 2007 @ 11:25 pm

Vengeful – Yes – No – MaybeI can’t agree with – sorry. The Doctor wasn’t vengeful, in fact he went out of his way to avoid the family by changing himself. It was only when pushed he used the full might and fury of the Time Lord.

Think of it this way, a prudent person wouldn’t poke a tiger in the eye especially when the tiger is happy to leave you alone. If you’re going to climb into it’s cage and poke it in the eye then there will be grave consequences to your actions.

J_W_WJune 4, 2007 @ 12:34 pm

Re: Everyone’s a critic, especially me

In fact, it provides us with a peg on which to hang some of his more inane or seemingly simplistic behaviour. He makes every possible effort to avoid the hard-ass solution, the violent solution, etc., but in the end he makes the hard call. He always has made the hard call. It is, perhaps, that character trait that explains why he destroyed the time lords to end the time war.

My problem here is that he didn’t simply take the "violent solution" here. There were far kinder courses of action he could have taken. He instead chose to dispose of his enemies in a fashion that would make many a demon pause. That’s where I see him coming across as a villain. If he was reluctant to do anything about them before, why would he change so drastically? There was no justice in his actions; they were an act of pure vengeance. He could have killed them quickly and had done with it.

I don’t think the Doctor would have been so vengeful, if Mr. Smith hadn’t died. I think that really colored his actions. Also, he gave them what they were looking for anyway, a very long life...

BabbsterJune 4, 2007 @ 12:48 pm

Re: Everyone’s a critic, especially me

Also, he gave them what they were looking for anyway, a very long life..[/spoiler].

Wish fulfillment Pope Cerebus-style. :)

TheScarfJune 15, 2007 @ 2:47 pm

Re: Everyone’s a critic, especially me

In fact, it provides us with a peg on which to hang some of his more inane or seemingly simplistic behaviour. He makes every possible effort to avoid the hard-ass solution, the violent solution, etc., but in the end he makes the hard call. He always has made the hard call. It is, perhaps, that character trait that explains why he destroyed the time lords to end the time war.

My problem here is that he didn’t simply take the "violent solution" here. There were far kinder courses of action he could have taken. He instead chose to dispose of his enemies in a fashion that would make many a demon pause. That’s where I see him coming across as a villain. If he was reluctant to do anything about them before, why would he change so drastically? There was no justice in his actions; they were an act of pure vengeance. He could have killed them quickly and had done with it.

Just think back to the first adventure of this Doctor "No second chances, that’s the kind of man I am." It all fits his character quite well.

babasyzygyJune 6, 2007 @ 11:37 am

Re: Everyone’s a critic, especially meWell, except that he didn’t make the hard call when he had an opportunity to prevent the Daleks from coming about.

He’s still paying for that one, and that failure and its consequences might be what motivates his harder line now.

manlyJuly 7, 2007 @ 9:45 pm

Re: Everyone’s a critic, especially meHoly crap.

I’ve never seen Dr. Who previous to this new series and expected the spoilers to be for this series, not the whole show.

Sounds like I’ve got 20-odd seasons to watch…

joe__geeJune 4, 2007 @ 7:57 am

Excellent, thought-provoking.Good television. :)

Dark NexusJune 4, 2007 @ 3:22 pm

The dream journalAnybody else think the dream journal might have something to do with the newest batch of MIB’s we’ve seen in earlier episodes this season?

y42June 5, 2007 @ 8:35 am

Re: The dream journal

Anybody else think the dream journal might have something to do with the newest batch of MIB’s we’ve seen in earlier episodes this season?

I wasn’t until 5 seconds ago!

ddamico361June 13, 2007 @ 12:33 pm

Makes you ThinkI found Joan’s comment chilling when she addressed the renewed Doctor, "You decided to come here on a whim and many people died for it." That really makes you think. I am constantly amazed at how the new adventures of the doctor bring responsibility into question. Secondly, the episode ending made me weep. It was as if I knew these characters for a whole season. Although not the usual Who episode, it was really memorable.