Poll: Live and die by a-bombs? (obviously when looking for max gains)

Anadrol

I can get Drol quite cheap and for the record it is much much more powerful than D-bol.

Only disadvantage of Drol is the fact that you will lose much of your gains if you dont use something alongside, If you can hack Tren with Drol then you will keep much of your strenght and muscle gains and those will be some nice gains too.

Im assuming stacking it with test does not help you keep the gains? Most things ive read say its very hard to keep the gains, and im assuming everyone or at least 3/4 people have a test base in there cycle, plus some people more. So when would these gains fade? Right after you come off the drol even though still on test? When your done with the whole cycle?

Im assuming stacking it with test does not help you keep the gains? Most things ive read say its very hard to keep the gains, and im assuming everyone or at least 3/4 people have a test base in there cycle, plus some people more. So when would these gains fade? Right after you come off the drol even though still on test? When your done with the whole cycle?

What would help you keep the gains? Winny?

nothing. a lot of the gains are water witch you will lose. it the muscle you gain that you keep. I am going ot run fina with to help with gains and water (fina dries the hell out of me,) I am going to try this it this summer

Ok, first of all, I would like to personally correct myself and my profile here. I no longer recommend Dbol over Anadrol. I don't actually recommend either, but anadrol is definitely a better product. What I said however is still accurate, mg per mg dbol does usually lead to bigger gains, 50 mg of dbol having more effect than 50 mg of anadrol.

But anadrol is clearly a better product. First of all, don't use either without combining with at least testosterone and/or another potent androgen. Neither exerts any mentionable androgenic effect, so it would be stupid to ommit an androgen that would be highly synergistic. Both these drugs exert their anabolism through their estrogenic effects. But Dbol does by conversion ti 17-alpha-methyl-estradiol, and anadrol does so by directly binding the estrogen receptor. That makes anadrol's effects much more reliable and dose-dependent, and unlike with 17AA estradiol, anadrol cannot convert to less positive estrogens like estrone.

In muscle, estradiol receptor agonists can activate skeletal muscle RAS. RAS stands for renin-angiotensin system whereby renin converts angiotensigogen to angiotensin I and Angiotensin Converting enzyme (ACE) converts AngI to AngII. AngII then works on two receptors, the AT1 receptor being the most relevant here, the AT2 has slight inhibitory properties.

The work of Jones and Woodward on skeletal muscle RAS clearly portrays a role for AngII in muscle hypertrophy, not only leading to direct anabolic effects in regards to muscular hypertrophy and strength gains, but also long term in terms of fiber-type switching. RAS activation leads to more Type IIb muscle fibers that are more prone to explosive strength gains and faster hypertrophic response. So these low-androgenic, high estrogenic drugs not only augment hypertrophy, but also what type of hypertrophy and will eventually speed up future muscle gain.

Estrogen's, and especially anadrol then, will activate RAS in a dose-dependent manner. This is quite evident from the dose-dependent increase in RAS-specific side-effects such as increased water retention (through RAS mediated aldosterone release), increase blood pressure (throug AngII and aldosterone) and headaches (as a result of the hypertension). Having said that, I have also adressed the major negatives of these drugs.

In conclusion :

- I recommend neither anadrol or dbol
- I would only use them in combo with a strong androgen (test and/or tren)
- Dbol is stronger mg for mg, but anadrol is the better drug
- Both these drugs, and anadrol being the better, bring specific problems with them such as hypertension and water retention

On a side note, water retention and hypertension can be reduced but not completely abolished, with specific aldosterone inhibitors, such as eplenorone (not sure on spelling).

And estrogens also have other anabolic effects, but only for RAS activation can we assume they are dose-responsive.

Gains from these products, directly at least, are very hard to keep. But gains from Drol are more maintainable than those of Dbol. They will however result in better and more keepable gains in future cycles due to increased fiber-type switching. The opposite is true for anti-estrogen fanatics. You are probably not just paying more for something you quite likely don't even need, you are shooting yourself in the foot and actually paying more for less gains. Anti-e's should only be used in people particularly prone to estrogenic sides (an absolute minority, most can tolerate 750 mg of test a week without signs of gyno) and when you do, opt for a SERM rather than an anti-aromatase.

Of course there is a need to correct myself. This stuff is ever evolving and I evolve with it. Yet I have to stand by my principles of offering the best and most correct advice, and when a theory or conclusion changes, I feel obliged to inform people thereof.

What was meant is that you don't need to justify yourself. Most people know you wrote those profiles some time ago. Some observations though:

1. I didn't bloat much at all with Anadrol but I did with Dbol and I am very sensitive to estrogen. So the effects of 17 methyl estradiol has a much more direct effect on me than Drol's direct binding to the AR. Dbol also might have a more direct effect on aldosterone production.

2. I kept the majority of the gains from Drol. I also know some others that don't bloat as much using Drol so the idea that it causes major water retention might be a stretch.

For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.

Figured that, but comparable to something that potent? Not sure about that. I know from first hand how potent it is as I don't really bloat to much from Test at 750mg/week but once I start Dbol the water retention is bad plus the fact I started to develop gyno (even while using Letro and Proviron). If that doesn't teach you the worth of Nolva, nothing will.

From my experience the whole water retention thing is blown out of proportion with Drol. I think the potency and amount of 17 methyl E2 Dbol produced increases aldosterone production much more than Drol does by just binding to the AR. Then again this is just my experience so someone else could have the complete opposite reaction.

For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.

In muscle, estradiol receptor agonists can activate skeletal muscle RAS. RAS stands for renin-angiotensin system whereby renin converts angiotensigogen to angiotensin I and Angiotensin Converting enzyme (ACE) converts AngI to AngII. AngII then works on two receptors, the AT1 receptor being the most relevant here, the AT2 has slight inhibitory properties.

The work of Jones and Woodward on skeletal muscle RAS clearly portrays a role for AngII in muscle hypertrophy, not only leading to direct anabolic effects in regards to muscular hypertrophy and strength gains, but also long term in terms of fiber-type switching. RAS activation leads to more Type IIb muscle fibers that are more prone to explosive strength gains and faster hypertrophic response. So these low-androgenic, high estrogenic drugs not only augment hypertrophy, but also what type of hypertrophy and will eventually speed up future muscle gain.

Estrogen's, and especially anadrol then, will activate RAS in a dose-dependent manner. This is quite evident from the dose-dependent increase in RAS-specific side-effects such as increased water retention (through RAS mediated aldosterone release), increase blood pressure (throug AngII and aldosterone) and headaches (as a result of the hypertension). Having said that, I have also adressed the major negatives of these drugs.

Haven't used drol yet, but I plan to when January comes around. One question, does drol give the same painful back pumps that dbol and M1T does? Haven't heard anyone mention it, just curious.

Not at all, I worked lower back the other night and was fine. However, the general pumps from anadrol, in my experience, are insane. I worked chest a few days ago and my pecs blew up. I thought I'd also add that I've had little to no water retention on anadrol, I'm actually staying hard and making lean gains. This is my first time to try the stuff and I like it a lot. My strength didn't immediately explode like with dbol, but then again I also don't look pregnant. Also, no one at the gym has been like "Woah man you exploded!" which is another sign my water retention is minimal. Instead I get daily comments on looking cut and lean, little do they know I'm putting on weight. Hooha.

I should have mentioned that. I'm on a lower dose, 50mg/day, and it's working quite well. I did a little experimenting because I wanted to see how it worked by itself and ran it alone for 2 weeks just to see what happened before I threw any test in. In just that two weeks my weight had increased and I was looking more cut and strength was up. I can only imagine what 100mg/day would be doing. This'll definitely be included in my next cycle.

I doubt you could take enough Anavar to ever get the saem results as Anadrol. You would get extreme side effects before that would ever happen. Its comparing apples to oranges. Having used Anadrol (I didn't when this poll was created) I have to say it is the BEST, BY FAR, that I've ever used. I practially exploded and it doesn't even compare to Dbol (I mainly use Naps). It blew Dbol out of the water but the only downside is price compared to Dbol. But its definetly worth it and I will be using it again in the future.

bobo.. did you stay lean while taking drol? i am concerned about losing sight of my abs, and vascular arms.

bobo.. did you stay lean while taking drol? i am concerned about losing sight of my abs, and vascular arms.

I'm not bobo, but I'll share my personal experience with you anyway. While taking anadrol alone and nothing else, my vascularity increased massively and I became one of the "veiny freaks" at the gym, I was more lean than I have ever been, and my abs were showing better than ever. Eat some Niacin or buy some NO2 and get yourself some anadrol and I guarantee you'll be pretty vascular. Also I have to agree with bobo this is by far the best steroid I have ever used, I actually gained mass and shredded body fat simultaneously and I got no bloat whatsoever.

I'm not bobo, but I'll share my personal experience with you anyway. While taking anadrol alone and nothing else, my vascularity increased massively and I became one of the "veiny freaks" at the gym, I was more lean than I have ever been, and my abs were showing better than ever. Eat some Niacin or buy some NO2 and get yourself some anadrol and I guarantee you'll be pretty vascular. Also I have to agree with bobo this is by far the best steroid I have ever used, I actually gained mass and shredded body fat simultaneously and I got no bloat whatsoever.

No, but the results would probably be phenomenol. Anadrol cut fat off me like a hot knife through butter, and from what I hear tren's even better at it. If you have the resources available I say you give it a shot, you might just get the best cycle of your life. Keep us posted..

Bump that. Test/tren/drol is the best you can get. But I really don't recommend oral steroids unless strictly necessary. I can't see many people requiring this stack either, but its definitely number one among the "quality mass in a hurry" stacks. Ideally you would get a lot of test in there, but obviously depending on how prone you are to estrogenic sides, you need to remember that anadrol is an estrogen agonist and that tren is somewhat progestagenic.

For this reason many people attempting it will usually do test the whole cycle and start off with anadrol the first six weeks and switch to tren the last 6 weeks. Combining the anadrol with a low dose aromatase inhibitor, since this does not affect the anadrol, which agonizes the estrogen receptor directly, but does lower estrogen slightly from testosterone, putting you in an acceptable A:E range.

Using the Anadrol first and the tren after also has a distinct benefit. 17AA steroids tend to upregulate the glucocorticoid receptor. This is one of the reasons you lose mass so fast after oral only cycles. But after you come off the drol, you still have six weeks of test/tren. Test blocks the GR and tren reduces the output of cortisol, which means that your body has 6 weeks it is less sensitive to catabolism to restore its GR density. Meaning not only gaining massing and losing less mass, but losing less mass post cycle from what you gained from the anadrol.

[QUOTE=slewdem]so should i run some 50mg/ed drol alongside my test/tren cycle?

How much do you weigh? 50mg is a light dose, I only ran it at that because it was my first time to use it and I wanted to see if I got results from that dose, which I did, good ones at that, but I probably should have gone with 100mg/day because my bodyweight is above 200lbs. Consider your liver too though. Have you done a lot of other harsh orals? I'd go with 50mg if you have. Either way (50mg or 100mg) you'll love the results.

How much do you weigh? 50mg is a light dose, I only ran it at that because it was my first time to use it and I wanted to see if I got results from that dose, which I did, good ones at that, but I probably should have gone with 100mg/day because my bodyweight is above 200lbs. Consider your liver too though. Have you done a lot of other harsh orals? I'd go with 50mg if you have. Either way (50mg or 100mg) you'll love the results.

sometimes i run m5aa pre-workout.. but only like 1-2x per week if that.

i just really want to avoid bloating.. but am itching to see what all the hype is about. plus i read you cut up on it, so that makes it even more appealing.

I'm not doubting anyone's experience's here or anything, but this is the first I have ever heard of anyone cutting up from drol. I guess drugs do ract differently in everybody. I'm about to add drol to my cycle. It'll be added to EQ 400/mg/week Test E 1gm/week. Can't wait to try it. On thing about dianabol I won't miss is that it seems that each brand I try reacts differently in my body. This last cycle, I used it with tren and test and I absolutely could not eat a full meal without feeling nine months pregnant.

Hmmm, guess this explains my old military buddies stories and pics of when he was stationed in S. Korea and was taking anadrol.

I thought he was full of crap because I assumed that the puffiness and water retention were pretty high on anadrol at the time (before I knew what I know now about AAS).....but it seems that anecdotal evidence points in another direction.

I guess those ripped up and vascular pics he showed me were legit. Go figure.