But We Told You So

Actually I and others have been making these warnings for years now. Sadly they often fall on deaf ears – on those who are asleep, apathetic, indifferent, and unconcerned. And of course the activists mock me and pour scorn on me all the time when I give these warnings.

But every day we find these warnings coming to pass, and every day we see that these are no Chicken Little complaints. You see, for years I have said that special rights for homosexuals in general, and homosexual marriage in particular, will adversely impact all of us.

These new laws will impinge on everyone, certainly on those who dare to resist this militant agenda. And all over the Western world we are finding exactly this: whenever the activists get their way, others have to pay a very big price. And in the case of homosexual marriage, whether you like it or not, you not only must support it, you must be involved in it and in favour of it.

Whenever the state pulls a right out of the hat, it means that this new rights must be enforced and embraced. If there is a right to something, then there are corresponding duties which are placed upon others to ensure that these rights are carried out and enabled.

Thus anyone who may not like these special rights laws, or homosexual marriage legislation, will be forced nonetheless – even against their religious convictions or conscience – to not just go along with the new laws, but to partake in them. We see this taking place time and time again.

I have presented case after case of this very thing happening, and here is just the latest example. Consider Denmark, which has officially and formally recognised homosexual relationships for years now. It is now also forcing everyone to bow the knee to the radical homosexual agenda, whether they like it or not.

Here is how one report covers this ominous development: “The nation of Denmark has voted to force churches in the established Evangelical Lutheran Church to perform same-sex ‘marriage’ ceremonies inside their sanctuaries, although one-third of all the denomination’s priests say they will not participate in such rituals.

“Danish parliament voted by an overwhelming 85-24 margin to compel churches to carry out unions for same-sex couples that are identical to heterosexual marriage celebrations. The law takes effect June 15. Since 1997, homosexuals have been able to get ‘married’ in a blessing ceremony after the normal church service. Under the new law, priests may opt out of performing the ‘wedding’ service for theological reasons. However, a bishop must arrange for a replacement.

The bill’s prime sponsor – Denmark’s church minister Manu Sareen, who is an agnostic – called the vote ‘historic.’ ‘I think it’s very important to give all members of the church the possibility to get married,’ he said. The Danish People’s Party opposed the legislation. ‘Marriage is as old as man himself, and you can’t change something as fundamental,’ said Christian Langballe, the party’s church spokesperson.

“Former politician Stig Elling said it was ‘positive’ that ‘there are so many priests and bishops who are in favour of it. We have moved forward,’ he said. ‘It’s 2012.’ The Evangelical Lutheran Church of Denmark has been Denmark’s official state church since 1849. The passage of the Danish bill comes as pro-family activists the world over are warning that the homosexualist agenda is threatening the basic freedoms of religious believers all across the West.”

There you have it folks: you will like homosexual marriage. You will approve. You will consent. You will bow. You will submit. You will fully support this or face the wrath of the state. Hey, didn’t we go to war to prevent this very thing not so long ago?

Didn’t we lose millions of our young men to preserve freedom and to oppose dictatorships and fascism? Didn’t we always believe that liberty was worth fighting for? Didn’t we always believe that freedom was indivisible and always worth championing?

What we are witnessing right now is the erosion of all freedoms: the freedom of religion, the freedom of conscience, and the freedom of speech. All these and more are under direct assault by the militants. And in one country after another we see religious conscience especially being directly targeted.

None of this should be surprising however. The activists have said for decades now that this must be the case. They have stated their goals quite plainly, and have always known that the churches especially have to be in their gun-sites. They have long known that the last source of resistance to their militant agenda would be the churches.

Consider but one clear example of this. Everyone should read Kirk and Madsen’s 1989 volume, After the Ball. The authors make it clear there just how much has to change, and how all opposition must be targeted. Indeed, everything will be targeted.

Legal expert Roger Severino wrote a telling piece about all this entitled “Or for poorer? How same-sex marriage threatens religious liberty”. In it he examined a number of past cases and potential future cases of how religious institutions suffer from the expansion of homosexual rights. He is worth quoting at length:

“The legal definition of marriage does not exist in isolation; changing it alters many areas of the law. For example, the definition of marriage plays an important role in the law of adoption, education, employee benefits, health care, employment discrimination, government contracts and subsidies, taxation, tort law, and trusts and estates. In turn, these legal regimes directly govern the ongoing daily operations of religious organizations of all stripes, including parishes, schools, temples, hospitals, orphanages, retreat centers, soup kitchens, and universities. Moreover, current law provides no room for non-uniform definitions of marriage within a state, it is all or nothing….

“Changes in marriage law impact religious institutions disproportionately because their role is so deeply intertwined with the public concept of marriage. . . . The specific consequences that will likely flow from legalizing same-sex marriage include both government compulsion of religious institutions to provide financial or other support for same-sex married couples and government withdrawal of public benefits from those institutions that oppose same-sex marriage. In other words, wherever religious institutions provide preferential treatment to husband-wife couples, state laws will likely require them to either extend identical benefits to same-sex married couples or withdraw the benefits altogether.”

And the activists have made it clear that the churches will be radically impacted – if not destroyed altogether – as their social engineering agenda is fully realised. And we are now seeing that take place all around us. For another 50-plus recent examples of how this is occurring, I encourage you to read this piece: www.billmuehlenberg.com/2012/05/15/homosexual-marriage-everything-will-change/

And if you are not yet convinced about the mega changes which are taking place when these types of legislative changes occur, simply study the tragic results as found in the American state of Massachusetts. Please study this very important paper: www.massresistance.org/docs/marriage/effects_of_ssm.html

What is happening in Denmark is happening all over the West. Many of us have been warning about this for decades now. Tragically these warnings have often fallen on deaf ears. So if you wake up one day to find half of your Christian friends in jail, or kicked out of their jobs, or fined, don’t say we did not know about this. We told you so.

36 Comments

If there is a bright side to this story, it is that it strengthens your arguments that the undermining of marriage is a direct attack upon the church. Hopefully the decision makers will begin to see the monster they are fighting to unleash and repent.
Mario Del Giudice

“It’s estimated that, in less than five years, there have been between 200 and 300 proceedings — in courts, human-rights commissions, and employment boards — against critics and opponents of same-sex marriage.”

Indeed, so much of this is about shutting down all opposition. Churches are clearly in view here. As Mike Adams put it:

“Heterosexual gay rights activists like Gary Faulkner do not lead the march for same-sex marriage out of a love for gay people. Most do it out of a hatred of Christians. Faulkner, who has a well-documented history of making hate-filled and defamatory statements about Christians, has a political motive for supporting same-sex marriage. He wants marriage re-defined. Then he wants to see churches that refuse to perform same-sex marriage ceremonies stripped of their tax-exempt status. Finally, he wants to see churches that refuse to perform same-sex marriage ceremonies shut down in the name of ‘equality’ and ‘tolerance.’ The result would be a nation in which the only Christian churches remaining would be those that have abandoned basic Christian principles.”

When the gays get complete control and cause all organisations to be shut down if they don’t comply with the gay’s agendas, it will mean that “the salt of the Earth” will be impotent; our commission will be pretty much wound up other than to reach those already with us in jail.

Looks mighty like a potential abomination that will indeed desolate the temple of believers.

The Church of Denmark or Danish National Church, and formally the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Denmark, (Danish: Den Danske Folkekirke or Folkekirken, literally meaning the “People’s Church”) is the state church and largest denomination in Denmark and Greenland. The church is Evangelical Lutheran and since the establishment of the Danish Constitution of 1849 the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Denmark (ELCD) has been regarded as “the church of the people” as well as an official national church. The church is financially supported by the state, but membership is voluntary.[2][3] The reigning monarch is the supreme authority, but not the head, of the Church,[4] with the Minister for Ecclesiastical Affairs, currently Manu Sareen, as the highest administrative authority of the Church. The Danish parliament, Folketinget, is the supreme legislative authority for the church. As of 1 April 2012, 79.6%[5] of the population of Denmark are members of the National Church.

The key thing here is that the Danish parliament, Folketinget, is the supreme legislative authority for the church, which means the people of Denmark make the decisions about how the Church operates. Democracy.
Rodney Cruise

But let me call your bluff here: Merely copying a Wikipedia entry and passing it off as your own does not a comment make, nor does it say much about your integrity. And having the state stamp on the conscience and freedoms of believers is not at all about democracy. And all this shows is how dangerous and unhelpful state churches are.

I of course normally trash such enlightened bits of commentary, but I thought a slightly toned-down version of your remarks would help show the whole world how your side operates. Thanks for showing us your true colours here. I am sure everyone will want to move to your side based on it.

Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

Anna von Marburg
8.6.12 /
3pm

It is pathetic but powerful when a homosexual activist has to warn HETEROSEXUALS about the dangers of same sex marriage. These quotes by homosexuals about the dangers of SSM (including Waghorne’s which I love from my NOW bedside book of yours, Strained Relations) should be sent to every politician, especially the federal Liberal politician calling all her colleagues “homophobes” for not allowing SSM. How can a homosexual be a homophobe?

Yes exactly right. And I have heaps of these juicy quotes from the activists in my book. People don’t have to take our word for it, they can just see what the militants themselves have been saying all along.

Thanks Bill, It certainly is an abomination that will cause much desolation.

I believe in the past Pentecostal churches in Finland were unregistered. Subsequently Pastors could not perform weddings, but Christian couples went to the Registry to complete formalities and then the Church held a service. Maybe it will come to that.

Greg Cadman

John Angelico
8.6.12 /
6pm

Bill and all, these people seem to find new ways, almost daily, to annoy the electorate and waste parliamentary time.

I have just fired off an email to my upper house Victoria representatives, pointing out that the Greens MP Sue Pennicuik private members bill The Marriage Equality Bill 2012 is ultra vires (beyond its powers) since Marriage is a federal matter.

John Angelico

graham wood
8.6.12 /
8pm

“Homosexual couples in Denmark have won the right to get married in any church they choose, even though nearly one third of the country’s priests have said they will refuse to carry out the ceremonies. ”

Thanks Bill for the further info and comment.
There seem to be those who envisage the worst, and that the Danish decision means the eventual inevitability of SSM ‘marriages’ by (UK churches).
I think we need to understand the real issue at stake here. It is that of the headship of Christ over his church, as opposed to the claim of any secular authority via, in this case, SSM legislation.
For CHRISTIAN churches therefore, the possibility of endorsing SSM “in churches” cannot even be contemplated can it?
If the choice has to be made between following Christ and his mandatory teaching, (“Teaching them to observe ALL things which I have commanded you”), or submission to the State on this issue, then the answer is clear. Christ must win every time.

In the C of E “Prayer Book” controversy of 1928 the following principle was clearly expressed, and it is one which would serve us all well in the coming days, as the challenge over SSM increased.

“It is a fundamental principle that the Church – that is the Bishops, together with the clergy and laity – must in the last resort, when its mind has been fully ascertained, retain its inalienable right, in loyalty to our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, to formulate its faith in Him, and to arrange the expression of that holy faith in its forms of worship”

The church then is NOT an arm of the State, and in this matter not subject to the secular authority.
At this time the historic declaration of Luther “Here I stand, I (we) can do not other” applies to the collective church, and must be declared once again if the State seeks to impose SSM on churches.
This is then the repeat of age old battles about the nature of Christian liberty, the autonomy of the Church under Christ, and freedom of religion and assembly. The latter meaning – the freedom NOT to associate with those with whom you fundamentally disagree (in a SSM ‘religious’ service of endorsement).
As in Acts 5 this will mean a reiteration of the same principle by the Apostles “We must obey God rather than men”.
They cannot indict, and then imprison us all!

Graham Wood, UK

Ian Nairn
8.6.12 /
8pm

“Once something has been approved by the Government, It’s no longer immoral.”

That is unfortunately the take some churches are taking, forgetting that God is the ultimate law giver.

Ian Nairn

John Angelico
8.6.12 /
9pm

Graham Wood, UK:

“They cannot indict, and then imprison us all!”

No doubt they will try, though. We need to be prepared.

John Angelico

Ken Abbott
9.6.12 /
12am

Bill: Thanks for your continued efforts in these matters.

On your advice, I just purchased the Kirk and Madsen book. I had to look far and wide for an affordable copy–prices at Amazon started near $40, and that for a used paperback! One of the reviewers likened the work to Alinksy’s “Rules for Radicals.” Conservatives are way behind the power curve in recognizing and fighting back against this mindset.

I find it interesting that these “activists” will always end up attacking a person’s character who disagrees with them, but not the person’s arguments. And if they do, it is usually the rehashed arguments that do not hold water.
Of course it is cowardly, but expected of these folk, time and time again. Rodney is evidence of that brand of cowardly “activism” when he exploded in expletives. That is supposed to intimidate the opposition? “Shiver my timbers”….Tsk!

On the other hand, there are very few that would wish to step into the fray (the silent Christians), for fear of being mocked and scorned! Fear of man, not God, keeps many Christians from speaking up and defending the Truth.

Monica Craver

Rachel Smith
9.6.12 /
8am

The Danish parliament has ordered the Evangelical Lutheran Church to perform same sex marriages within its sanctuaries. This is not unlike what is unfolding in the UK, US, Australia and European countries in the name of the Equality agenda where political leaders are attempting to force a redefinition of marriage upon an unsuspecting populace without mandate whether they like it or not, completely forgetting that they are there to serve the people not the other way round. It is quite possible that today there are more atheists than believers in God and therefore as a majority they want to sweep away all traces of belief and enforce secularism.

However the vindictive war on people who hold to the Christian faith, be it of catholic, lutheran or whatever denomination,is unacceptable. A common characteristic of non believers is their spitting-in-your-face hate in their interaction with we who believe. We never saw Jesus but to us his words ring with truth and we believe he is the Messiah, God who came among us. His words magnified God’s laws, most important of which are “Love the Lord your God above all other with all your heart, soul, mind and strength. Love your neighbour as yourself. No commandment is greater than these.
And that is why, in a spirit of humility, we do not wish to control other people, tell them what to do or trespass against them in an abusive manner. We especially do not want to be told what to do by people who do not seem to know what they are doing.

It’s interesting to read how the church in Germany responded to the intrusion of the state under Hitler. The divide was about the same: 2/3 went along with what Hitler required while 1/3 remained true to the Word.
The church in Denmark is the state church financed by the state and that has a corrupting influence on the church. It also gives the state the idea that they can overrule the Word of God. He who pays the piper calls the tune.
Tas Walker

Louise Le Mottee
9.6.12 /
3pm

Bill and all, these people seem to find new ways, almost daily, to annoy the electorate and waste parliamentary time.

One of the lies put out by the gay activists is that it’s only Christians who oppose same-sex marriage and/or homosexual activity in general. I could quote the anecdotal evidence of a tradesman without faith who expressed his views to me in words too strong for my taste, but it is clear that opponents of same-sex “marriage” include people of other religions, agnostics, atheists, and even many homosexuals.

That is, people of any type who can see the absurdity of the so-called arguments put forth by proponents. One reason the activists would like to see our freedoms banished is that they know as a fact that most people will not really accept homosexuals as married in the normal sense, even if those people are happy for the law to be changed just for the sake of peace (so they think).

There are times when I’m glad that I’m old and won’t have to put up with the godless world too much longer, but for the sake of our descendants I won’t hide in a corner until that time comes.

Yep, dark clouds all right Grant. The question is, who will take a stand here?

Bill Muehlenberg, CultureWatch

John Tongue
9.6.12 /
7pm

While Christian ‘freedoms’ in the secular society are worth fighting for, it needs to be remembered that this is not where our true freedom in Christ lies. The greatest growth periods in church history have been when followers of Christ have been vilified, opposed and outlawed. Whilst we don’t LOOK for opposition, let’s thank God for the opportunities he is opening up to us for the ‘subversive’ Gospel to prosper!!
John Tongue

Who will take the stand? All believers have already taken the stand with Christ written on their hearts. So when literal push comes to shove and we individually have to make a physical choice like Daniel and his friends, then it’s off to jail we go.
Grant Squelch

Bill, do you have any articles on the what will be taught in our schools in sex education and Health and well being classes. Will the act of homosexual sex be taught as a healthy and normal lifestyle choice ? If this is the case, why not teach that smoking is a healthy choice, as it appears according to the Sydney Morning Herald w/e 12-13 May 2012 page 16, that there are 50,000 new HIV cases in homosexual males per year in America alone, which clearly shows, homosexual sex is riskier than smoking when it comes to health. I also heard on the radio that there are over 4.5 million HIV-Aids carriers in Africa. Same-sex marriage may be fair, but is it right ?, as it certainly isn`t healthy.
John Archer

We certainly have an advanage in Australia in the fact that we don’t have a state church, though many church-organisations are state funded in their charitable capaceties.
Rodney, the Church belongs to Jesus Christ, not to the people, for any people no matter how well meaning would wreck it due to the simple fact that we not only a finite but a fallen nature.
Many blessings
Ursula Bennett

Ruth Roberts
13.6.12 /
4pm

Bill, if you had not the courage to stand up for Christ’s truth and warn and encourage many believers, we would go blindly into accepting whatever the Gov. comes up with.
Thank you, I’ll be watching and praying for good to prevail
Ruth Roberts