I'm not going to get into my review for this or Attack of the Clones (which I watched last night) right now, because I need to get to bed. But I will say this, RotS is definitely the best of the Prequel Trilogy. However, while the quality of the Pros in RotS greatly outweighs the quality of the Pros in TPM, the quantity of the Cons for RotS far outnumbers the quantity of the Cons for TPM.

And that is all for now. _________________
"It's not about the legacy you leave, it's about the life you live." ~Mara Jade Skywalker

Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 3:34 pm

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Jedi JoeMaster

Joined: 11 Jun 2009Posts: 1597

Definitely the best PT movie and the only PT movie that compares to the OT. Wonderful action and an engaging plot. And no dopey romance like in AOTC._________________

Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 8:35 pm

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Old Master BenAdministrator

Joined: 10 Nov 2007Posts: 2259Location: Georgia

I'm with Mara, too late to say much tonight. I could talk about Sith a ton tomorrow, but here's what I'll say for now.

Best prequel movie, and my second favorite Star Wars film.

Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:00 pm

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Mara Jade SkywalkerAdministrator

Joined: 15 Feb 2008Posts: 5799Location: Beyond Shadows

And now for my indepth review. But first, I must explain about my earlier statement concerning RotS vs. TPM. I do believe there were more and worse Cons in RotS, but I think this is caused by the fact that it shines so wonderfully in most other places. So, onward:

Pros:
1. The story. I felt it summed up the Prequel Trilogy beautifully. No messy or rushed plot, everything meshed wonderfully.
2. The ending. It was a perfect ending, bringing in all the elements to tie it into the Original Trilogy, but not too much, and not too fast. A nice pace that gave us the transition into the Empire, the beginning construction on the Death Star, Owen and Beru taking Luke, and Bail taking Leia, among other things.
3. The Anakin vs. Obi-Wan lightsaber fight takes my breath away every time. The blue lightsabers against the lava...it's gorgeous. And the speed and ferocity of the duel! It far surpasses any other duel we'd been presented. Someone said that it doesn't show much emotion, but I felt that it does. Especially how well we were shown that they were perfectly matched. They knew each others' every move, every strike. I think this was especially well conveyed when they Force pushed each other across the room.
4. The dialogue between Anakin and Obi-Wan at the end. Mainly Obi-Wan's heartfelt bit. "You were the Chosen One! It was said that you would destroy the Sith, not join them! Bring balance to the Force, not leave it in darkness. You were my brother, Anakin! I loved you."
5. The planets. Utapau, as well as Kashyyyk, Coruscant, and the other planets were again beautifully done. If they were CGI, I couldn't care less. They looked awesome.
6. Boga. I don't know, but I really liked her. It was something different. Not somebody riding around in a speeder once again. I was pretty sad what happened. I know the book says she died, but I'm hoping the movie version deems otherwise. We all know how George loves to change canon.
7. The war. I loved the battlefield scenes. The clones fighing on Utapau and Kashyyyk...gives me chills most times.
8. Order 66. While this is one of the saddest bits of the movie, it was beautifully done. It certainly made me cry. My mom did as well, and she's not a Star Wars fan. The music there just...gets me every time.
9. The opening above Coruscant. Talk about a movie to see in theaters! That was the most amazingly done bit...I can't even describe how awesome I find it.
10. Grievous' bike. That thing is so awesome! I would love to have one of those.

These are just some of the major Pros that I noticed. There are many more, but I couldn't possibly list them all. So I'll move on to the Cons.

Cons:
1. The super battle droids. I find the entire opening of the movie, after entering Grievous' ship, that is, to be rather disappointing. However, the super battle droids totally ruin whatever threads those scenes were hanging by. Someone said they were surprised I liked the droids in TPM? I did! They were great. Why the heck did they change them? They were far too humorous. They're supposed to be cold-blooded droids, the might of the Seperatists. How are we honestly supposed to take them seriously if they're acting like this? "What that?" "That nothing."
2. The humor on Grievous' flagship. I'm sorry, but while I don't mind humor, that wasn't the time for it. And there was way too much of it! It just seemed forced.
3. Some of the dialogue. Now, while the dialogue was much improved over AotC, the few lines that I didn't like were downright horrid. And they were the following:
"Wait a minute. How did this happen? We're smarter than this!"
I don't know why this line bothers me so much, but it does. I find it to be the only flawed bit of performance by Ewan MacGregor in the entire saga.
"So love has blinded you?"
What in the world?! I've pondered this for many moons, and I still can't figure out what that was supposed to mean. I don't blame Natalie Portman for this line at all. The words themselves should never have seen the light of day.
"If you're not with me, you're my enemy."
I'm not sure what's wrong with this line, but I felt Hayden did a bad job delivering it. It just seems sour every time I hear it.
"You will try."
Another bad line by Hayden. I don't think it was a terrible line in and of itself, but I didn't like the way he said it at all.
We won't even go into Palpatine's, "Noo, nooo. Noooo!"
4. The Jedi vs. Palpatine fight. I've mentioned this elsewhere, so let me be brief. The entire fight is not as bad as I remember, but how quickly and pitifully Palpatine kills Agen Kolar and Saesee Tiin is just sad. I can't even think of another way to put it. It literally makes me cringe every time.
5. Palpatine's face after the fight. It looked very fake to me. I couldn't take his 'deformity' seriously unless it was under a hood.
6. Anakin's turn to the Dark Side in Palpatine's office. It all seemed far too fast. For him to go from, "What have I done!" to, "I pledge myself to you. I will destroy every Jedi in the temple, even the younglings, and even my best friend and mentor, Obi-Wan." Paraphrased, of course, but it seemed too quick. The only way I can justify it is to think, "He realized there was no turning back. He might as well go all the way."
7. Palpatine's name declaration for Anakin. "You shall be known as Darth...Vader." He pauses too unconvincingly, as if to pull the name from the air. "Ah, yes, that sounds good. I don't even know what it means, but it just has this ring to it." Lately that scene has been making me laugh.
8. The crash landing at the beginning. While I love the lines, "We lost something", "Not to worry, we're still flying half a ship", and "Anoher happy landing", the whole crash bit was kind of overdone. They knock out an entire control tower, not to mention how many other buildings, and this isn't a big deal! How many civilians were killed in this crash? Certainly hundreds, unless you claim the place was evacuated. That's about the only way it works. I find this bit to be slightly amusing, though, rather than an actual Con.

Anyway, there are also more Cons, but I won't go into them all. Those are the major ones that bug me. And you may be thinking some of those are completely wrong, or rather minor, but I simply listed the ones that bother me.

Meh:
1. The battle droids. I used to detest them in this movie, but they've grown on me. I actually laughed this time around. Whenever the one says, "You're welcome", that makes up for the rest of their antics.

So there you have it, my Pros and Cons review of Revenge of the Sith. I felt that the entire movie far surpassed The Phantom Menace (and certainly Attack of the Clones) in every way except for the Cons. I found more than I did in TPM. But again, this is most probably due to the fact that the movie is so good in the first place. All the bad things just look that much worse. _________________
"It's not about the legacy you leave, it's about the life you live." ~Mara Jade Skywalker

Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 11:52 am

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Jedi JoeMaster

Joined: 11 Jun 2009Posts: 1597

I don't mind the Battle Droids on ROTS. It's obvious that their vocabulary chips were upgraded. And when given orders they don't go, "But sir, (insert excuse here)!" like they do in the CW.

Great review, Mara! Some good stuff there you pointed out! _________________

Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 1:31 pm

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Old Master BenAdministrator

Joined: 10 Nov 2007Posts: 2259Location: Georgia

Okay, here we go:

Pros:

1. Also the story. Excellent. Not just the story, but how they displayed the story. Great production.
Everything after Palpatine reveals himself to Anakin is PERFECT. No flaws in story, acting, production, CGI. Perfect.

2. The opera scene. A great setting, and Ian delivered great. Speaking of...

3. Ian. His acting was unbelievable. I don't think a single line was delivered wrong, and his performance made this movie. After playing the small, boring role of Palpatine, he turns that character into something exciting, and then when he went into Emperor mode, it was like watching Return of the Jedi again. There have only been two actors that have caused me to walk out of a film and think "That guy had better get the best actor oscar. Neither did. Ian in ROTS, and Heath Ledger in Dark Knight.

4. The CGI was great. The opening battle scene was stunning, and the improvements made to Yoda were outstanding. He looked 100% real. Also, the lighting on the CGI settings. That would be pretty much every location in the moving, but the use of lighting was terrific.

5. Ewan McGregor's acting. I don't know if anyone can get close to replicating the performance of A.G. in ANH, but Ewan, in this film, made me connect them as the same person. I could see Ewan growing old and acting like A.G, so he did his job well.

6. Other acting jobs. Hayden was so much better than AOTC, it isn't even funny. I mean, really. They don't seem like the same actor. Natalie did okay overall, but did really well in the second half. Samuel L. Jackson was his usual amazing self, and the look in his eyes during that close up in the Palpatine fight is classic; the one where he is holding on to Palps saber. We all know which one I mean.
The acting of Yoda was unreal. Which means it was so real, it was...nevermind. Point is, the animators made him seem real enough that I can talk about the quality of his acting. The same thing can be said against the Clone Troopers, all of which were CGI. I watch and sometimes just pay attention to them, and wonder how anything could look so real, and be completely fake.

7. Order 66. The second most emotional moment in the Star Wars films. Due to the simple transitions done. The shot of the Clone Troopers feet stopping cold. I remember seeing it in theaters (will get to that later) and the theater was dead silent. It was insane.

8. The final battle between Yoda and Palpatine was the great good vs. evil battle we have always wanted. Great job on that. Again, all but closeups of Ian were CGI, and you couldn't tell. And the conversation between Palps and Yoda pre-battle were great. It really fit the scene. The two best of their kind both having some smack talk before fighting. I wish the conversation between Obi-Wan and Anakin had fit their moment as well.

10. Fan reaction. I saw the film in theaters for the midnight premier. First off, I want to say that what I saw before we entered the theater proved that no matter what we say about AOTC now, it didn't matter then. At least, not that night. However, pre-film is not a reflection of ROTS. I think that they did a great job inserting things that would get fan reaction. Because plenty of things did. 2005 was a long time ago, and I wish I had recorded the theater (illegal as that may be), just so I could go back and remember what got reactions. A few things I recall: Mace entering into Palpatine's office got big cheers (much like the cheers he received when he showed up to save everyone in AOTC. Many laughs at Obi-Wan's line about the blasters. Lot's of reaction at seeing Chewie. When Yoda enters Palpatine's office, people started to cheer. And then he blasts the guards back. And that, is a moment I still get chills thinking about. The reaction was one you would get if the home team just won the NBA finals on a last second shot. I never thought I would hear something during a film. The cheering, screaming, whooping, yelling. When Yoda blasts Palptine back, and during the conversation that follows, the crowd shouted things like heck yeah! Awesome experience, and, as silly as it may sound, one of the greatest I've ever had. Perhaps I am biased when I watch ROTS, based on such a good theater experience, but oh well. It just proves how good the film was to get such reaction.

11. The soundtrack. Best of the prequels, especially with the addition Duel of the Fates during the film. That was the only real memorable track from the prequels, and they used in just the right part during ROTS.

So many more pros, but I can't think of them right now. I will come back after watching the film again.

Cons.

1. Conversation between Padme and Anakin at her apartment. All of it, pretty much.

2. The entire scene from the time they get on Grevious' ship until after the crash. I just hated it. Sorry. I can overlook it all though, because the of quality after that. But Obi-Wan's "Another happy landing line, we are still flying half a ship." Anakin's "You're shorter than I expected." And I think I know why some of this fell flat. If you notice, at times there isn't any music. A lot of those bad lines are delivered during this point, so it's just silence and bad lines. Also, the droids. Here's how it went in the theaters. Before seeing the movie, I had read my newspapers review, and it was not good. It criticized the droids, the acting, everything. So I went in looking to be disappointing. And once those droids started talking, I remember really thinking "This is going to be horrible." I thought that until after the crash scene, and once that was done, the review never crossed mu mind again because it as so good from then on out.

3. The emotion in Anakin and Obi-Wan's final battle. I wanted more. More conversation between them. I admit, the actual fight was very emotional. It was the moments in between, when they would talk. After the fight, yes, very good. Anakin's "I hate you" had the audience in tears. I'm not kidding. But Hayden's worst line of the entire prequels had to come right before the battle. "Don't make me kill you." I plug my ears when that is coming, it is so bad.

As for some of Mara's cons. I think that Anakin's turn seems fast, but I never had an issue with it. He just killed Mace Windu, pretty much. He knows that any chance he had to get help from the Jedi just vanished like Mace did out of the window. And I think that it would have been more believable if the love scenes between Anakin and Padme had been better. Anakin could NOT lose her. That just wasn't shown very well in other parts, but I think if it had been, we wouldn't question his quick change.

I have more to say, but I've spent way too long doing this. I need to take a break.

Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 2:44 pm

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Jedi JoeMaster

Joined: 11 Jun 2009Posts: 1597

I would have to agree with you, OMB. The theater experience was one of the best I've ever had. The only true SW movie I've seen in the theaters, but yet it definitely was THE best movie I have seen in theaters. I really hope they re-release the SW saga in theaters. I would schedule a SW marathon if that ever happened! Anyways, I'll list my pros and cons...

--Pros--

- The transformation from Anakin to Vader: This is the whole movie in one sentence. Lucas did a very good job on tying up the loose ends with the trilogies with this movie.

- General Grievous: I loved this character ever since I saw him in the Clone Wars cartoon. A fierce and deadly droid general who has a hint of cowardice. Many people say that Grievous was a weakling in this one compared to the Clone Wars. I disagree. Obi-Wan's easy victory in lightsaber combat was because of his mastery of Soresu, which most Jedi Masters lacked when fighting Grievous in the past.

- Order 66: The very moment when the Clone troopers became Stormtroopers was when Palpatine gave out the order to destroy the corrupt Jedi Order. One of the major turning points in the whole saga that led to the Rise of the Empire (explains why that was a pending title for this movie... ).

- The duel between Obi-Wan and Darth Vader: The one mistake that most fans make is when they call Darth Vader "Anakin". They do not realize that after this point, he is no longer Anakin Skywalker. He is Darth Vader. The duel itself is very sad too. It was when Obi-Wan nearly killed his former apprentice, and had to leave his brother that was no more.

- Mace Windu: This is probably one of my favorite Jedi. He knows how to get things done. Sammy Jackson did a wonderful job playing him. Who couldn't resist that purple saber? This Jedi's major (and fatal) flaw was that he was talking too much after defeating Palpatine, as apposed to killing him right on the spot. But it's understandable that if he'd done that, the whole Original Trilogy would have been ruined.

- Palpatine: By far the most intelligent person in the Saga. Anyone who can play two sides in chess without the pawns knowing is a supergenius. I also love Ian's acting. He seems like a nice guy (and probably is in real life) while playing as the Chancellor, but is clearly very evil when playing as the Emporer.

- Kashyyyk and the Wookiees: When I saw that the home of the Wookiees finally made an appearance in the movies, I was so happy. But seeing multiple Wookiees roar and then fight against the droids made me more than happy.

- Ewan McGregor's Obi-Wan: Very reminiscent of Sir Alec Guinness' portrayal. Reminded me so much of a young Alec Guiness.

- The humor: I really love how they added tidbits of humor into the Star Wars movies. I still laugh when I hear "Another happy landing" and "Oh no...".

More pros to come later.

--Cons--

- Dooku: Count Dooku really disappointed me in Sith, because he went out really early in the movie. In Clones, he was the main mastermind, and was a powerful Sith Lord, the main villian of the whole movie. In this movie, however, he got killed within the first ten minutes. It really puts an abrupt end to his plot.

- The romance: Although not NEARLY as cheesy as in AOTC, it got a bit unbearable at some spots.

- Kit Fisto: Probably one of the most famous Jedi who didn't have a starring role in the movies. It just seemed that Kit went out like a wimp in ROTS. While I agree that Mace was much more powerful than him, I would think he could duel Palps longer than he really did...

- "Only a Sith deals in abulotes": Really?

Last edited by Jedi Joe on Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:52 pm; edited 2 times in total

Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 8:18 pm

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Old Master BenAdministrator

Joined: 10 Nov 2007Posts: 2259Location: Georgia

Quote:

- Kit Fisto: Probably one of the most famous Jedi who didn't have a starring role in the movies. It just seemed that Kit went out like a wimp in ROTS. While I agree that Mace was much more powerful than him, I would think he could duel Palps longer than he really did...

My only thing on that is that, while we all love Kit, George may have never thought of him as this amazing Jedi. At least he got longer than the other two.

Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 8:24 pm

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Mara Jade SkywalkerAdministrator

Joined: 15 Feb 2008Posts: 5799Location: Beyond Shadows

And I really liked Agen Kolar, I really did. I was so disappointed by his seemingly undefended slaughter._________________
"It's not about the legacy you leave, it's about the life you live." ~Mara Jade Skywalker

All right, all these reviews of RotS inspired me to go watch it again. To continue the trend, here are my pros and cons:

Pros
1. It's already been said that the story was awesome, and indeed it was. This was the SW movie fans had been waiting for since the original film. It finally addressed how Anakin Skywalker became Darth Vader and did so beautifully.

2. All the banter during the first half hour. I know some of it was a little cheesy, but I loved every minute of it. For me, it really helped sell Obi-Wan and Anakin's relationship. In AotC, they were irritated with each other for practically the whole movie. In the beginning of RotS, we actually got to see them as "brothers". We also got a glimpse at the Anakin that Ben Kenobi described in ANH as a "cunning warrior and a good friend". AotC Anakin never seemed to fit that description.

3. The whole opening space battle. Wow. Just amazing. When I saw it on the big screen, it just made my head spin.

4. The first Anakin/Padmé scene. It's the only romance scene in the prequels I would call perfect. It was sweet without being overly mushy.

5. Order 66. I still tear up when I watch it. We all knew going into Episode III that the Jedi Order would be exterminated, but for some reason I wasn't expecting the Jedi to be viciously shot in the back. I was in a state of shock when I first saw it. My jaw just about hit the floor. The bit with Anakin and the younglings really put it over the edge. "Master Skywalker, there are too many of them. What are we going to do?" That kid's voice in forever engrained in my memory. I burst into tears in the theater. It was tragic and heartbreaking, just as it was meant to be.

6. Anakin's Fall. It was perfect. Just perfect. Yes, it did move pretty fast, but I could see Anakin's line of thinking. He was horrified that he basically just killed Mace, but pushes his guilt aside for what he considers to be really important: Padmé.

7. Palpatine. His every word, his every action was dedicated to turning Anakin to the dark side. It worked perfectly, but I was struck by the fact that had everything not happened precisely the way it did (Obi-Wan being sent to kill Grievous, Mace not letting Anakin come with him to arrest Palpatine, among other things), Sidious' whole plan might have fallen apart. It's also brilliant how he suckered Anakin so completely, then practically admits it. Anakin's a Sith for about ten seconds before Sidious reveals that he actually doesn't know how to save Padmé. but, of course, if they work together, they'll discover the secret. Anakin, you just got played by the ultimate mastermind.

8. The Duel. Of course. The best sword fight in SW history. Peroid. So intense and emotional. I loved it. I thought there was enough dialogue to lend emotion to the scene without being distracting. Awesome.

9. Padmé's confrontation of Anakin. I think it was Natalie's best scene. She really did a fantastic job. Even the potentially corny, "Anakin, you're breaking my heart" worked for me. She was really able to nail the emotion. Hayden did a great job, too. By this point, Anakin has managed to convince himself that he did the right thing by betraying the Jedi and he's a bit giddy with all the power he thinks he's gaining.

10. The ending. The birth of the twins, the rise of Vader. The transitions were amazing.

Cons
1. Anakin announcing "Ray shields". Grievous had already told us what it was he was going to use to trap them. Did we really need it said again?

2. The balcony scene. It was bearable until the "So love has blinded you" line. I completely agree with Mara; that came from nowhere. Even Anakin seemed perplexed.

3. The first few seconds of the Obi-Wan/Grievous fight. C'mon, Grievous, you have four lightsabers! Use them!

4. Obi-Wan's line, "I can't watch anymore" after seeing the security recording. This was the only time I didn't like Ewan's delivery. It didn't sound quite right.

5. Obi-Wan's appearance in the hatch of Padmé's ship on Mustafar. He couldn't have given her five more minutes to try to reason with Anakin? This seemed like extremely bad timing on Obi-Wan's part.

That's all I have time for right now. I'll try to post more later. _________________All things die, Anakin Skywalker, even stars burn out.

So this is how liberty dies....with thunderous applause.

Those without swords can still die upon them

The world is a mess and I just need to rule it.

Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:57 pm

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Darth SkuldrenModerator

Joined: 04 Feb 2008Posts: 6658Location: Missouri

Caught the last half hour of ROTS, and it really is interesting how you can love and hate a movie. Some scenes are just so mediocre, and yet some scenes are just so iconically stunning. The ending with the Lars holding Luke in the sunset on Tatooine, the scenes with Vader be transformed in his armor, standing by Palpatine...

And then there's the crappy dialog and blandness between Obi-Wan and Padme when he confronts her about Anakin. The same thing goes for when Obi-Wan confronts Anakin, or Anakin and Padme. The believability just isn't there.

But there was some awesome sword play.

Beyond small gripes and stunning imagery and action, I wondered about Yoda's fateful decision to have Obi-Wan go after Vader, and Yoda going after Palpatine. It would seem to make more sense if Obi-Wan and Yoda both went after Palaptine, who was certainly perceived the most powerful of the two Sith. If they were able to take out Palpatine, they might have actually been able to turn Anakin back, certainly he wouldn't have been consumed by his belief that Palpatine could teach him to save Padme. And even if they didn't want to try saving him, surely Yoda would have realized that two Jedi against one Sith is a lot better odds. Why gamble on something so important?

Would almost seem like Palpatine was right. Yoda was blinded by his arrogance._________________
"I believe toys resonate with us as humans, we can hold them them, it's tactile, real! They are totems for our extended beliefs and imaginations. A fetish for ideas that hold as much interest and passion as old religious relics for some. We display them in our homes. They show who we are. They are signals for similar thinking people. A way we connect with each other...and I guess thats why I do toys. That connection." -Ashley Wood

I think that was part of the point. And noooooo to accusations of blandness! As much as I love them, I will admit that there are parts of TPM and AotC that are.....less than stellar. But RotS more than made up for it in my eyes. _________________All things die, Anakin Skywalker, even stars burn out.

So this is how liberty dies....with thunderous applause.

Those without swords can still die upon them

The world is a mess and I just need to rule it.

Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:36 pm

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Caedus_16Master

Joined: 15 Apr 2008Posts: 4843Location: Korriban

The scenes Skuldren mentioned always seemed rushed to me..._________________Perfection is a lifelong pursuit requiring sacrifice. The only way to get it quicker is to sacrifice the most.