I'm not sure how this would "fix" illegal immigration, but I like where you're going.

Except a national ID card is too easy to lose. Instead, the government should institute a program where everyone, a birth, it tattooed with their SS number and bar code.

It should be somewhere conspicuous but not obnoxious. I'm thinking the back of the hand rather than forehead. That way it can be easily scanned when you walk through a door, or stop at a red light, or attend the newly mandated weekly "We Love The Government" rallies.

I had a passport in the USSR with my photo,nationality,DOB,etc.they also recorded where you live and if you weren't registered to your apartment or city you couldn't live there.they took it away when you went to the military b/c you couldn't live or get a job without one. and in the earlier days people in collective farms couldn't have one so they wouldn't run away to the city. you not only look like lenin,you even think like him.

I'm really divided on how I feel about this issue. On the one hand, it makes sense, but then it should be required for everyone for not only working but also for getting social services, voting, etc. If it could prevent identity theft, that would be a very good thing.

On the other hand, I read what M.V. says and it scares the hell out of me and I have no doubt it \could lead to a draconian assault on our individual freedoms.

And finally, I find it hard to believe anyone who was so fiercely opposed to everything Bush did regarding the Patriot Act would even consider a biometric ID card.

Why not, instead, of making every citizen the property of the state we just make immigration cheaper and easier for immigrants.

Immigrants just want to make a better life for themselves and their families (for the overwhelming majority). I don't see why we feel the need to punish these people just because they were born across some line.

If it were at all easy and cheap to immigrate legally, we wouldn't have such an issue with the borders.

Oh yeah, and stop the drug war too. Then we can really focus on border security by focusing on real threats to this country rather than the 2 fake threats of immigrants and drugs.

I don't remember seeing a "Severe Dimensional Rift Warning" in Lezak's forecast this morning, but I find myself in a bizarre, alternate reality in which I agree with everything Bull E. Vard just said. Weird.

Jools - I'm not actually advocating for the bio-metric ID card. I'm just saying that for those folks who have such a visceral reation to the idea that illegal immigrants are running rampant within our borders, the National ID seems to be the obvious solution.

Issue the card, require that it be carried at all times, and require that it must be produced on demand when requested by any law enforcement officer without any probable cause.

This eliminates racial profiling. They can require that anyone within our borders produce their card on demand. This will also make it easier for us to crack down on those fucking illegal Canadians, eh?

"Issue the card, require that it be carried at all times, and require that it must be produced on demand when requested by any law enforcement officer without any probable cause."You serious? You know how I lose shit. lol

"Why not, instead, of making every citizen the property of the state we just make immigration cheaper and easier for immigrants"

I am sure every person who wants to immigrate to this country feels that way. It's a tough haul.

However, that "line" which you speak of is the line of our sovereign country. Is there any country in the world that doesn't have that "line" that they protect? I don't think so. That "line" represents who we are and who we are is the most welcoming country in the whole world. A PEW research survey showed that 1/3 of the entire country of Mexico would move here if they could. But, we can't handle that. We don't have enough tax payers, enough social services, or will to take everybody in.

I am dead certain that the INS is so full of red tape that the process could be improved and I am all for that; however, I do believe in limitations that keep this country and it's citizens whole financially and that the laws and the culture of this country are maintained.

A lot to take in there Jools. 1) We didn't have an arbitrary limit on immigration in 1900 and we had a pretty good 20th century. 2)WE the People represent who we are, not our geographic borders. 3) Legal immigrants are taxpayers, so if we have more of them, we have more taxpayers. The more taxpayers we have, the better chance we have of keeping Social Security and Medicare solvent. 4)The culture of this country can take on Cinco de Mayo and some Mexican food. We are a melting pot and I don't really worry about our culture being ruined. 5) I don't know what to make of the "keep citizens whole financially" statement. I see immigrants expanding the economy. It's not a zero sum game. 6)Just by making immigration rules doesn't mean that the results will be achieved. In fact, I argue that the drug laws and immigration laws are so widely ignored that they're largely inconsequential. My system seems much more realistic and workable than either the ID card or increased border security.

I do agree about social services which is why we need to be careful about entitlements. If you want to argue that the ship has sailed on that front, I'd be inclined to agree. But, I think my other 6 points outweigh that concern.

Jools - I tend to agree with Bull E. Vard (once again) about the line/border thing.

Borders are just shit we make up. They don't actually exist. You can't see them from space. We didn't have any trouble making up new lines and borders after the Mexican American War, or in 1957 and '58 when we added Hawaii and Alaska. Borders have always been fluid.

You could build a 12' high 2' thich concrete and steel reinfoced wall topped with concertina wire across the entire U.S./Mexican border with only one heavily guarded entry point.

Wouldn't stop 'em.

They could get in a boat on the coast and sail around the edges. Or take one of those cocaine-smuggling, home-built submarines.

And based on my observations, I'm not really worried about immigrants coming here and sucking up all of the taxpayer funded entitlement programs.

I've watched a handful of Mexicans work harder and longer in worse conditions than any Americans I've ever seen.

I think if one third of the Mexicans moved here tomorrow, we'd get a lot of fucking shit done pretty damn quick.

Ain't no use arguing this any more. We'll just have to let the worthless feds sort it out. If they would have enforced the law when they granted amnesty in the 80's, we wouldn't be in this mess.

FYI - I personally know an illegal immigrant from Lithuania. She makes $45k a year plus full living expenses as a home care provider to a rich old lady in the Chicago area. Nice woman. Hundreds if not thousands of eastern European illegals work as care givers in the Chicago area. She overstayed her visa about 8 years ago. Anyhow, She has never paid a dime in taxes but she wanted to come clean thinking about the next amnesty and went to an accountant to see what she would owe in back taxes. When she found out, she changed her mind....no no no .. too much taxes for her. She'll just claim she lived with her sister and didn't work if amnesty is offered again. I somehow suspect what she does will be the norm.