Ok, I heard this about this survey about we consider expendable and what is not. Very insightful and what I also believe is to some extent the canary in the coal mine. When these things go I think social order will start to decay. We witnessed this during Katrina when cellphones died people became clueless.

What consumer won't live wihtout:
http://www.jckonline.com/article/CA6634082.html

An overwhelming majority of consumers said they believe that the internet (80.9%) and cell phone service (64.1%) are simply off limits when it comes to making sacrifices in this tough economy, according to a National Retail Federation survey.

Shoppers also said that cable television (60.5%), discount shopping for apparel (43%), hair cuts and colors (40%), eating at fast-food restaurants (36.6%), and a new pair of shoes (24%) were on their list of untouchables, according to the survey conducted by BIGresearch and featured exclusively in the February issue of STORES magazine.

On an interesting note Wiki Definition of what it means to truely live a human life:

They have to be concerned about others, and be willing to sacrifice and practice mercy.

:)

tmosley

02-09-2009, 12:31 PM

Why should we have to sacrifice anything for the needs of others?

Sacrifice punishes the able. Mercy perpetuates weakness. The combination leads to a world full of nothing but despair.

It's interesting that the three things most people can't live without are all social outlets.

PitViper

02-09-2009, 07:06 PM

IMHO

Truly living as a human would be to remove all those vain things and focus on evolution in Mind, Body and Spirit as benchmarks of meaningful life.
I do hear you on the compassion note and agree to an extent, but I am strongly agreeing also with tmosley, that one should never "sacrifice" for another, or have mercy without an equal balance of severity to equilibrate into fairness.
God puts hardships upon all souls to cause them to reach inside and find that divine spark to over come that challenge - thus evolving in mind, body and spirit.

If you take that away, even with good intent, those individuals will never evolve and grow stronger. And the "sacrificer" may be led far off his own path of personal evolution. Here is an excellent poem illustrating this point (although it ends with a wicked harsh note - but if you knew the author - it is actually a joke, simply driving the point home)

My Son, there are afflictions many and woes many, that come
of the errors of men in respect of the will; but there is none
greater than this, the interference of the busy-body. For
they make pretence to know a man's thought better than he doth
himself, and to direct his will with more wisdom than he, and
to make plans for his happiness. And of all these the worst
is he that sacrificeth himself for the weal of his fellows.
He that is so foolish as not to follow his own will, how shall
he be so wise as to pursue that of another? If mine horse
balk at a fence, should some varlet come behind him, and
strike at his hoofs? Nay, Son, pursue thy path in peace, that
thy brother beholding thee may take courage from thy bearing,
and comfort from his confidence that thou wilt not hinder him
by thy superfluity of compassion. Let me not begin to tell
thee of the mischiefs that I have seen, whose root was in
kindness, whose flower was in self-sacrifice, and whose fruit
in catastrophe. Verily I think there should be no end
thereof. Strike, rob, slay thy neighbour, but comfort him not
unless he ask it of thee, and if he ask it, be wary. :D

Well, I don't agree with that last line, but it sure is funny! :D

2 years ago I quit a high pay job, and began selling everything I own ('cept my RV) I am 98% finished, I liquidated all my assets and I am now renting a small place, waiting out the winter, and I am traveling the nation come spring. I decided (for at least another year ;) ) that my mundane job, and this materialistic, dead end society of insanity are no longer for me . . . *Ahem* except the internet and my air card of course! I simply walked out of the "whore of babylon", no longer do I fornicate with her. I spend my day researching, studying and creating, exercising and meditating . . . I feel much more "alive" than many. Some may call me Mad - but I am, in fact, quite happy! :D
I believe, by doing this, I have firmly defeated sloth, gluttony, greed, vanity and pride, working on conquering ignorance, don't think I have a chance against lust though! :D I am still envious, (of others wisdom, not their material things) and wrathful (towards what I see as evil). But, I don't intend to achieve perfection, just evolution.

I consider the word HUMAN to not accurately describe what we are, I believe it is a weak, limited, animal term, I prefer "divine spirits", I strive to live up to that definition, so that my true Father/Mother, (God) is pleased with my endeavors. That is how I define A Truly Living Human. :) All those other things, in that article, I would describe as truly living like sheep . . . maybe even less than sheep, because sheep really aren't that vain! :D

Pauls' Revere

02-09-2009, 11:39 PM

The sacrifice one would give would be a free choice of course. I would not prevent somone from giving someone else money for nothing hell it's thier money do with it as they may. I think I was trying to get to the point that which was already pointed out which is that people have to experience thier spiritual side. How they achieve that is anyone's guess through church, meditation, or compassion.

I find it incredibly disturbing that although I was aware of our materialistic society I find it even more disturbing that through these economic times people are unwilling to let go of cell phones etc... So, it begs the question just what do we need to be human or feel human or is it now just a matter of feeling that we exist is a substitute for feeling alive? What is enough societal connectedness and interaction that one really needs? Do we need to be connected to people at all? Hell, all the things that are in the article are machines! :eek:

PitViper

02-10-2009, 02:24 AM

IMHO I believe the need for connectedness is based on the need for Love, often clothed in other forms of varying intensity such as: the need for respect, the need for attention, the need for interaction etc.

Some recognize four intensities of Love: storge, phileo, eros and agape. From friendship to fraternal, to the heat of passion, to the unconditional divine Love.

I believe the majority of humans probably do need this connectedness to “truly live”, but there are a select few, such as the ascetic, who in total isolation, can achieve the highest Love, there after only connecting with others to communicate a message of this higher Love, more out of duty than of need.

This highest Love could be considered connection with/Love of, the Divine, who (IMO) is actually the Only thing that exists. Thus it is Love of Self. But to Love thyself, one must know thyself. (IMO) The element which humans seek from “connectedness” is the feedback generated from each interaction which assists them to gain a clearer image of who they actually are – eventually leading to this highest connection which is what is truly sought, whether or not the seeker is aware of it. For all love’s are inferior next to the Love of God! So why would anyone settle for less? :D

Gnothi Seauton !!

tmosley

02-10-2009, 03:22 PM

I find it incredibly disturbing that although I was aware of our materialistic society I find it even more disturbing that through these economic times people are unwilling to let go of cell phones etc... So, it begs the question just what do we need to be human or feel human or is it now just a matter of feeling that we exist is a substitute for feeling alive? What is enough societal connectedness and interaction that one really needs? Do we need to be connected to people at all? Hell, all the things that are in the article are machines! :eek:

Umm, cell phones are a means of communication. Humans need to communicate with other humans. Only a hermit would rid themselves of any method of advanced communication. Machines are the most important things in our lives, because they reflect the mind and it's needs. Get rid of machines, and we are that much closer to being dumb beasts.

Spirituality can not reign over the mind, or man becomes slave.

constituent

02-11-2009, 04:29 PM

It's interesting that the three things most people can't live without are all social outlets.

Very perceptive. Symptoms of future shock.

PitViper

02-11-2009, 06:58 PM

Spirituality can not reign over the mind, or man becomes slave.

Interesting, I would have stated the exact opposite. :)

The definition of spirit has over 14 entries (American Heritage Dict.), it derives from Latin spiritus meaning “breath of God or inspiration” and evolves from the word spirare “to breath”. Many of the definitions imply “animating force”, “essential activating principle”, “the will”, “essence” ect. Drawing on these and the literal meaning of the word, and without listing 14 definitions, I think it may be safe to make a simple summary as “Being”.

The suffix “ity” is “expressing a condition of ”. Therefore, Spiritual-ity is literally “expressing the condition of being”. The mind is part of being, thus it is fully acknowledged in this definition.

Now on the other hand, I do firmly believe that most RELIGION is a chain to the mind, because it erects limited parameters (a system) through which, it asserts, are the ONLY way to observe, interact, experience etc. the infinite. Thus, it limits the infinite. {It is funny to note here that it is speculated that the word ‘religion’ evolved from the word “religare” which means “To Bind” !! :D but soon it evolved to “religio” meaning “the bond between man and the gods”}

Once the Infinite is thus limited it is no longer infinite, and then, when that limitation is studied as being The Infinite, only madness can develop. I think Rumi said “once you label me you negate me”. This is the very same reasoning why some religions abhor either naming the infinite or making an image of it – for by doing so you limit it, thus negate it, and are then studying something inferior erected in its place.

I see spirituality, as defined above, viewed in the light that this “essence” derives from an infinite source and is thus infinite, ( basing on my previous post where I stated I believe that the Infinite is actually the only thing that exists, thus it is the only thing “Being”) I therefore believe that this definition only enhances the mind if not transcending it entirely, by breaking down all limitations. For within the infinite, even opposites merge, defying normal reason, thus transcending it. So I conclude that, (for me) spirituality (in the sense described) frees the mind, and religion is what binds it.

But this is just my nutty musing! I fear I am straying off topic . . . sorry! Any way, its time for me to take my medicine and go back to my cell. :D