The Phillies are an extremely aggressive organization. You have to admire that.Posted by Schumpeters-Ghost

They're positioned to do very well over the next 3-4 years, and then fall off the cliff. They have no farm to speak of, and they likely will not have many more free agents leaving money and years on the table to play for them. They look like the team to beat for 2012, but I can't go so far as to admire the organization.

In Response to Re: Papelbon to sign with Phillies : You mean the playoffs? I like that they see a need (closer) and act on it. Our ball club can't seem to hire a manager. Although, I expect that we'll have one come spring training.Posted by Schumpeters-Ghost

Neither the Cubs or Cardinals. No one have got a new manager yet. Relax on this one!

In Response to Re: Papelbon to sign with Phillies : You mean the playoffs? I like that they see a need (closer) and act on it. Our ball club can't seem to hire a manager. Although, I expect that we'll have one come spring training.Posted by Schumpeters-Ghost

Lets hope Schump. lets hope. But, seriously, this season, with the playoffs at stake, ended on Papelbon's watch, much like the last playoffs the Sox were in. And he aint getting any younger/better. So, jes sayin', is that really the closer that you are going to throw that much dough/years at to get you over the hump. Yes, Philly was in the playoffs, but with that roster, I think we all know getting to the playoffs wasn't exactly their goal. I appreciate their tenacity and will to build a great club, don't get me wrong. But, my point is only that assembling an all-star team by just spending as much as possible is clearly not the most effective model (as well we know). The Phillies have put together a stellar club. No doubt. But Papelbon is a big question mark. One that I am perfectly content to not have answered in a Sox uniform. Papelbon was phenomenal, is still a warrior, and I have loved and enjoyed his time with the Sox. But, business is business, and i am fine not tying up 4/12 on him. Thanks for the memories and the dancing JP.

J-Bay Thank you very much but I am not happy with this move at all. Now they will go after a "budgetr" guy who has not been tested in the AL EAST. Yankee Fans in New York are thrilled to death here. I liked Papelbon thought he was a good guy compared to some of the questionable guys this team has signed in the past. In Response to Re: Papelbon to sign with Phillies :Posted by AL34

I was on the fence about Paps, AL. was fine either way. a lot of money for a closer when we have someone who may come close for a lot less. I'm in the same line of thinking as georom and space. Bard was lights out most of this season under more pressure and paps isn't getting any younger. It may be Bards time, we'll see soon enough.

Nothing like gauging that market Cherrington. Pappelbon guaged it right out of town to Philladelphia. Great first move. Just I would like one time when this team would be honest up front and say they had no interest in retaining the guy. Tired of this team BSPosted by AL34

Agree with you on this AL....if this is how it starts for the Sox we are in big trouble....who are you going to get that is better than Paps? All these guys saying let him go? yeah but who is as good to take his place?

I heard this garbage about not going 4 years on a contract when Jonny Damon left in 2006 and the FO said he had one maybe two years left. Footnote is 2011 and Damon is still playing. Please do not tell me Joe Nathan is a good replacement. I remember him in the 2009 playoffs hyperventilating that he had to go out and face the Yankees to save the game. Incidentally he blew it, not a pressure guy, Pappelbon was proven Bell and Madson have not been in the AL EAST before.Posted by AL34

I've grown tired of those of you that continue to use Damon as an example of the Red Sox failing to sign "one of our" soley on the merits of moneys...

Foot note: Damon who signed with the Yankees, played 1 season in New york as their centerfielder, before they moved him to left and in the last year two years of his deal and in the three years since leaving and signong with the Tigers and then the Ray's. He's been regated to an everyday DH...FYI The Red sox in 2006 had guy named Manny Ramirez in left who was at that time under the teams control through 2012. They also had a guy named David "Big Papi" Ortiz as their everyday DH who was also under the teams control through 2012.

Had they been given the opportunity to sign him, which they weren't based on every report that has been documented. They would've have within a year or two had they signed him to a 5 year deal, been forced to accept his less than stellar defense in center and or traded Manny and then Ortiz. But lets not let facts get in the way of a good rant!

I think at this point you have a decision to make with Bard. Either you switch him over to the bullpen, or you give him the closer role. If he can be just as good as a starter, he would obviously be more valuable in that role......either way we still need a closer/set-up man this off season.

BARD as the closer will be like walking the tight rope with out a net. For those that say he will be a good or great closer and can step right in. In 3 years he has 5 saves and 7 blown saves and he has 13 losses. Pap has 219 saves in 6 years or a 36 per year With 29 BS or 5 per year and 19 losses or 3 per yr. For the past 3 years his swing and miss ratio has gone up, a good thing. To think some of you think not having him is a good thing!!!!???? Going to the National league IMHO will give him even better stats as he will get more chances to save games with a weaker line up to pitch to. Don't we wish we had the Phils pitching staff!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Posted by JimfromFlorida

It's hard to save a game you don't finish - Bard has 79 holds to go along with 5 saves. That's like having 84 saves, to 7 blown, a very good ratio - better than Papelbon's.

In Response to Re: Papelbon to sign with Phillies : Definitely agree with you. Whoever they sign has never been a closer in the AL East. Imagine if Papelbon had been the closer for the Rangers this year. I believe they would have won the World Series. He was very reliable under the pressure situations of the playoffs. Not ever closer is. Posted by susan250

Susan

I too think it's important to have a proven closer to finsih games and while I appreciate that Papelbon was one of many key contributors to the 2007 WS tittle...I would say that his legend as a post season closer took a big hit in 2009 when he blew 5-2 lead with two outs and two strikes on Chone Figgons in an elimantion game and then this past season with the season on the brink in game 162 with two outs and two strikes on the hitter blew another big one...I get that blown saves come with teritory...I also think that we have to also look at it in the context of the big picture. Papelbon while among the best, is certainly a replaceable entity...

Not a big surprise. Now if Bard closes, it does beg the question raised by some posters in this thread, who fills the 8th inning? It would seem Aceves would be a strong candidate. In that case that shuts out the discussion around Bard or Aceves starting. Bottom line, right now at this instant we just got worse in terms of pitching, which is our biggest hole. We'll see what LL does now....sure looks like a disinvestment in salary for the short term.

We do get the Phillies #1 pick next year because Paps is a Type A FA. Let's hope LL can make that one pay off. Only time will tell.Posted by sindarin-erebor

Depends on if they sign another type A that's rated higher on the list then we'd get their 2nd rounder...regardless we'll get a supplemental unless they change the compensation team are rewarded in the new CBA...

Good point no immediate help but might in about 4 years. I rather have Papelbon than an untested Madson, Bell, and Nathan in the AL East. In Response to Re: Papelbon to sign with Phillies :Posted by AL34

on the bright side AL, other than the draft picks, he's out of the American League and didn't sign with the Yankees.

Please with the draft picks, this is not football, its baseball and a lot of these number one picks fail, take a look at Andrew Miller on our club a former 1st round pick of the Marlins. In Response to Re: Papelbon to sign with Phillies :Posted by AL34

True, however would you agree that rebuilding our farm system is not only important, but critical for the future?

Please with the draft picks, this is not football, its baseball and a lot of these number one picks fail, take a look at Andrew Miller on our club a former 1st round pick of the Marlins. In Response to Re: Papelbon to sign with Phillies :Posted by AL34

Due to the Phillies success , their first round pick will not be a high one. It will be very late in the round.

RYAN MADDDDDDDSSSSSSSSOOOOOOOOONNNNN 32 saves last season, the guy is the same age as papelbon and will be able to get him for less money that what we would have for paps, - save money - lose clubhouse crap - get draft pick - new arm, new face - help fix things? i dont see how this is bad, paps had a few bad seasons, had one great one going in contract season, good for himPosted by crtolly1

Please with the draft picks, this is not football, its baseball and a lot of these number one picks fail, take a look at Andrew Miller on our club a former 1st round pick of the Marlins. In Response to Re: Papelbon to sign with Phillies :Posted by AL34

Yes AL, this is true. But, given the nature of free agency and guaranteed contracts in baseball, developing homegrown talent is the fundamental key to a good oganization. So, given that, as you point out, a #1 is no sure bet as it might be in other sports (well, um, Jamarcus Russells aside), it is why it is imperative to stock pile high draft picks. So, yes, you have to consider this as part of the reason the sox were willing to let him sign elsewhere. You can't just dismiss that.

J-Bay I do not know if we get back to World Series we might face him against the Phillies. In Response to Re: Papelbon to sign with Phillies :Posted by AL34

Hope they get the chance, AL. Was predicted this year, neither got there.

Paps didn't seem to be a clubhouse problem, but from the outside looking in, its hard to say. may be they didnt want to commit to the years with possibly his best years behind him and decided the money was better spent elsewere