Growing up, I didn’t know anyone who hunted. Hunters, I figured, were probably just barbaric gun nuts. Then, eight years ago, I moved from Manhattan to rural Oregon, to write for a small newspaper. My perspective shifted when I began interviewing hunters for my articles and realized that although I had long considered myself an environmentalist, these hunters – most of whom scoffed at the “E” word – were more knowledgeable and thoughtful about animals and nature than I was.

Eventually, I decided to buy a gun and join them. But don’t worry, I’m still an environmentalist, loud and proud.

1. Hunting has a light environmental footprint
No antibiotics, artificial hormones, pesticides, herbicides, or unnatural feeds were used in raising this meat. Unlike farmed animals, a wild one doesn't contribute to soil erosion, water pollution, or the displacement of native plants in favor of a monoculture. No land is tilled to feed a wild animal, so additional carbon isn’t released into the atmosphere.

2. Wild animals aren’t subject to the misery of factory farming
My venison was never confined, castrated, or branded the way most farmed steers are. My duck was never caged, de-beaked, or toe-clipped the way most domesticated poultry is. Wild animals, unlike many domesticated ones, aren’t bred, fed and medicated to achieve rapid weight gain so that they can be killed at just a few weeks of age.

3. None of the meat is wasted
After I shoot an animal, I gut it and butcher it myself (or, in the case of an 800-pounds bull elk, with some help from friends). This way, I know the meat was handled safely. I don’t have to worry about listeria or trichinosis. And I’m confident that as much of the animal as possible is used. To hunt and butcher an animal is to recognize that meat is not some abstract form of protein that springs into existence tightly wrapped in cellophane and styrofoam. Meat is life. So I seek out recipes that make the most of it. I cook it with care. I share with friends and family. I make sure eat every bite gets enjoyed.

4. Hunting pays for conservation
To hunt for elk this fall, for example, I’ve already bought an Oregon hunting license for $29.50, paid $8 to enter a lottery for the right to hunt in a particular spot, and purchased a $42.50 tag. That means I’ve already paid $80 toward wildlife research and habitat protection in my home state. Bird-watchers and hikers haven’t paid anywhere near that much.

With approximately 12.5 million hunters nationwide, we’re talking about real money. Proceeds from the Federal Duck Stamp – a required $15 annual purchase for migratory waterfowl hunters – have added more than five million acres to the national wildlife refuge system. And federal excise taxes on hunting equipment and ammunition garner more than $200 million a year for wildlife management and the purchase of public lands.

5. Hunting promotes conservation
To hunt is to participate in the ecosystem rather than just watch from the sidelines. When I track an animal, I use all of my senses to take in my surroundings, as if I were a wild animal myself. So by the time I actually shoot something, I’ve developed a deep connection to the species and to the land. I considered myself an environmentalist before I started hunting. But back then, all of my reasons for conservation were theoretical. Now that I hunt, I have a real-life, vested interest in seeing places – and wildlife populations – preserved in the long-term. Someday, I want take my son hunting in all of my favorite spots.

Hunting animals for food is natural. I choose not to do it. The raising and killing of some farm animals is cruelty, such as pigs and chickens. Animals in a slaughterhouse scream when they are killed. If you don't think so, go live near one when they are shrieking in the night. I'm a vegetarian, wannabe vegan. In the long run, humans are a temporary species on the Earth, like the dinosaurs, only we probably won't last a 100 million years because we'll destroy our environment, and the environment of a lot of hapless animals. The Earth doesn't need us. Stop arguing and do what you think is right. It won't matter in the long run.

July 4, 2012 at 4:13 pm |

David1958

'The raising and killing of some farm animals is cruelty, such as pigs and chickens'

Not necessarily. Just like other areas of life, it depends on the person/farmer. This applies to hunters as well. Some hunters take more than one shot, if the first shot doesnt kill the animal. For example, I'v seen deer shot, and run off, only to die a slow and agonizing death. Yes, game meat can be healtier to eat, but killing the animal is not always humane as some would have you believe.

July 4, 2012 at 5:53 pm |

David1958

'. In the long run, humans are a temporary species on the Earth'

Your not exactly an optimist are you?

July 4, 2012 at 5:58 pm |

Martin Guest

Hunting has never been natural for humans as we have always been scavengers! Our ancestors for millions of years ate fruit, nuts and berries! We have only eaten meat for about the last 10,000 years! Our hunting skills are, with most of us, non-existent! We don't have large fangs to tear the flesh from a cow or other animal nor sharp claws to help subdue prey. Our intestines are longer than carnivores intestines, meaning we do not rid our bodies quickly of the toxins and harmful bacteria in meat! The final test for those who think they are in any way carnivorous is, do you salivate when you see road kill? If not then you are not a natural meat eating animal!

July 4, 2012 at 6:27 pm |

kellory

Hunting has never been natural for humans as we have always been scavengers! Our ancestors for millions of years ate fruit, nuts and berries! We have only eaten meat for about the last 10,000 years! Our hunting skills are, with most of us, non-existent! We don't have large fangs to tear the flesh from a cow or other animal nor sharp claws to help subdue prey. Our intestines are longer than carnivores intestines, meaning we do not rid our bodies quickly of the toxins and harmful bacteria in meat! The final test for those who think they are in any way carnivorous is, do you salivate when you see road kill? If not then you are not a natural meat eating animal!

"Our ancestors for millions of years ate fruit, nuts and berries" and guess what? YOU STILL CAN! That is because we are OMNIVORES! That means we can eat most everything other animals eat. 10,000 years of eating meat?Why then it a tradition as well as tasty!
"Our hunting skills are, with most of us, non-existent! We don't have large fangs to tear the flesh" I don't know about you, but I Have Canine teeth for that very reason, to tear meat. And if you doubt my hunting skills, by all means, put on the Bambi costume and protest hunting this fall, in the woods, at about 40 yards. ;) (I hunt with a bow too.)
"The final test for those who think they are in any way carnivorous is, do you salivate when you see road kill?" YES! many hunters are on lists to call for roadkill deer. it also goes to open shelters and food pantries. And that deer doesn't cost me $100. in permits, fees, taxes, gas, ammo and processing. To let it go to waste (as you do) would be shameful.
So climb off your high horse and learn something. Hunters are the greatest conservationists you will ever meet. And some of the best people. My Pastor leads a hunt every year.

July 4, 2012 at 9:34 pm |

V_1

Best. Post. Ever.

July 4, 2012 at 9:42 pm |

guest

And do you salivate when you look in the compost bin and see/smell rotting vegetables?

July 4, 2012 at 10:59 pm |

AJ

Martin Guest,

You are completely wrong.

We've only eating GRAIN for about the last 10,000 years.

We've eaten MEAT for MILLIONS of years. In fact, not a single species in our genus have been herbivores, all have been omnivores.

Our digestive tract is made to digest both plant an animal matter. We are OMNIVORES. We do not have the digestive tract of a carnivore because carnivores cannot efficiently digest plant matter; a longer digestive tract is required for both herbivores and omnivores to be able to eat plants. You had a correct fact about digestive system length (that carnivores have shorter digestive tracts), but then your post drew false conclusions.

We evolved to use tools. Just because we don't look like apex-carnivores doesn't mean we aren't supposed to eat meat. Many omnivores don't have "claws". Did you know that chickens are pigs are omnivores?

As far as "natural instinct", if you raise a carnivore in captivity, it doesn't know how to hunt either. In fact, when I switched my dogs from dry dog kibble to a raw diet, they didn't even recognize meat as food at first! They had learned since they were puppies that food was little brown dry nuggets.

July 5, 2012 at 12:07 pm |

konawes

And in addition these statistics indicate 40% of those polled kill things for fun{sport}, that really worries me.

July 4, 2012 at 6:57 pm |

V_1

You don't belong to game animals species, do you? If not, why worry? ;)

July 5, 2012 at 10:03 am |

jay

Vegetarians/Vegans, whatever you claim to be, this is what I have trouble understanding, why can't you just shut up? Most people eat meat. Homosapiens have been eating meat since the dawn of man. You aren't going to be able to stop the majority of people from eating meat. So why all the racket? Calm down and realize that no one is forcing you to eat meat. Do i personally believe some of the ways farm animals are treated are wrong? Yes, i honestly do. If you want to fight against the way some corporate farms treat chickens I'll be the first to sign the petition. If you want to complain about veal, I'll probably be on your side. Just don't tell me I shouldn't eat something just because it had to be killed to eat. Do you not kill a head of lettuce when you eat it? Does a carrot not die when it is cooked? Look around you, animals are eating other animals all over the place.

July 4, 2012 at 3:51 pm |

lena

there are animals who kill other animals (I always had a hard time watching how they do that) and there are animals who don't. We can choose to what category we want to belong to. I find animals who don't eat animals more peaceful, calm, relaxing...

July 4, 2012 at 4:22 pm |

John

Wow

July 4, 2012 at 4:35 pm |

V_1

No kidding...

July 4, 2012 at 4:54 pm |

AJ

Humans are OMNIVORES. You cannot "chose" to be a herbivore; that is something set on the species-level, not the individual level.

Even if you choose to be vegan and eliminate all animal products from your diet and get those nutrients from artificial supplements instead, you are still BIOLOGICALLY AN OMNIVORE and your body still has the same nutritional requirements.

July 5, 2012 at 5:28 pm |

Primal 4 Life

So I CHOOSE to eat meat. I will always CHOOSE to eat meat. Please learn what freedom means and then learn to live and let live.

How would you like it if you were forced to eat meat? You wouldn't all, we DEMAND that same respect, period.

July 5, 2012 at 9:21 pm |

sam stone

jay: most of us don't give a damn what you eat

July 4, 2012 at 7:29 pm |

Peteyroo

JayWalker, you say we should shut up? When we we see wrong, we speak up. I think what you are really saying is that no one should challenge your beliefs because they are right and true. Obviously those who disagree you have no right to voice an opinion. As much as I hate killing animals and very much dislike the hunters who kill them, I would never suggest they shut up.

July 4, 2012 at 9:47 pm |

Jake

Dude, the lame statements regarding vegetables feeling pain are, well, lame. I am a vegetarian, and I don't make big statements. My spouse eats meat, and that's a choice. Not all vegetarians make noise.

July 4, 2012 at 10:12 pm |

lena

i think i made the eatocracy editors mad – they posted a big article on how to grill meat.... typical.... Hopefully one day they will realize that they are in denial.... Can someone actually at cnn do a research and post good, healthy vegan meal recipes? or post information about what vegan celebrities eat? or how to try a vegan diet? check the 21 day vegan mealplan – http://www.21daykickstart.org/index_menu_interim.cfm

We give the floor to vegans and vegetarians all the time (a great example): http://eatocracy.cnn.com/2012/01/04/55-eat-more-compassionately-in-2012/

It's all about balance and listening to both sides.

July 4, 2012 at 3:57 pm |

lena

wow, that' actually a good article.... i love you for that :) i might have seemed too blunt and too rigid, but actually I just wanted to say as much as possible cause it was a perfect article for it and lots of people read cnn. Hopefully someone will pick up some ideas and research further and maybe some children won't have to suffer from diabetes and other meat-related diseases as a result

July 4, 2012 at 4:11 pm |

Guest

Diabetes is an insulin disorder, not a "meat disease". Are you even trying to see a viewpoint other than your own? Are you capable?

July 4, 2012 at 11:16 pm |

PETP_Founder

As the PETP Founder I consider what you are all doing disgusting.
Doing you know how hard it is for a plant to get water and nutrients from the soil and the sun.
To grow when a big fat tree is blocking your light?
And then just as your big and strong to have some stupid animal to come along and rip you out of the ground, just because they can, and eat you!
You should all learn how to live without killing anything. Does a plant not bleed its fluids when you cut it, just like an animal? Just because a plant's fluids are a different color doesn't mean you ANIMALS have not hurt it!

Such unfeeling, disgusting creators animals are.
People for the Ethical Treatment of Plants (Join me my sane animals, quickly!, we won't be around for much longer)

July 4, 2012 at 3:05 pm |

lena

it is fluid, not blood. You are far from being sensitive enough to feel the pain of the plants and recognize their fluid as blood... at least recognize the pain you are causing to your kin, the animals. Humans are animals-mamals and not plants.

July 4, 2012 at 3:58 pm |

ONTHunter

You call us uneducated....you can't even spell mammals properly.

July 4, 2012 at 4:05 pm |

Peteyroo

Oink Thunter, you are not uneducated, my friend. You are undereducated. You have just enough education to sound almost smart–but not quite. Go back to school and finish the Third Grade. It will do wonders for you.

July 4, 2012 at 4:39 pm |

ONTHunter

This coming from the guy who makes sure to put an inappropriate, misspelled name in front of everyone who opposes his view?? F**k the third grade, you need to go back to kindergarten and learn some social skills.

July 4, 2012 at 5:55 pm |

David1958

Plants don't feel pain. They lack the nervous system and brain necessary for this to happen. A plant can respond to stimuli, for example by turning towards the light or closing over a fly, but that is not the same thing.

July 4, 2012 at 6:06 pm |

PETP_Founder

:-)

People are funny.

July 4, 2012 at 5:15 pm |

Lanny

so what do you eat,grass?

July 4, 2012 at 5:38 pm |

Tulok

Why hunting you own dinner is an ethical way to eat – by Jeffery Dahmer

July 4, 2012 at 2:55 pm |

Henry

Have you considered becoming a vegetarian? Vegetarian or not, you may want to consider this Buddhist prayer:

This food is the gift of the whole universe,
Each morsel is a sacrifice of life,
May I be worthy to receive it.
May the energy in this food,
Give me the strength,
To transform my unwholesome qualities
into wholesome ones.

I am grateful for this food,
May I realize the Path of Awakening,
For the sake of all beings.

July 4, 2012 at 2:27 pm |

Karen

In response to the author saying "birdwatchers and hikers haven't paid near that much" (the $80 paid for hunting tags etc), those of us who do like to hike and horseback ride in Oregon's and Washington's national forest and wilderness areas do have to pay for a day-use or annual Trail Park Pass. Last time I purchased one was a few years ago, I believe the day-use fee was $5 and the annual pass was $40, and well worth it for the well-maintained trails and trailheads in central Oregon.

July 4, 2012 at 2:19 pm |

Peteyroo

99% of hunters give the rest of them a bad name.

July 4, 2012 at 1:19 pm |

Scott

Hunters have fed the tribe since we climbed out of the trees. If you don't hunt, you are a scavenger, plain and simple. I choose to live my life the way I do ... you may do the same.

July 4, 2012 at 2:03 pm |

lena

Hunters are killers. I didn't meet a hunter who doesn't like the sight of an innocent pray fall on the ground and who does not enjoy the feeling of triumph… I wonder if there is a hunter in the world who decided to hunt for environmental reasons. Humans had enough vegetation to survive, but meat tasted better and was easier to get. Maybe because humans had to move up north to find more animals and fish, they forgot that there is plenty of food where they came from and their lives became harder. Only 100 year ago people would barely eat meat because it is not sustainable; people couldn't afford to raise their animals. They were able to grow just enough vegetables, grains and fruits for themselves. Most of the people in Europe ate plant-based foods. Even now in poor countries people can not afford to raise animals and can not afford to hunt either, they have to protect the animals that are left in the wild.

July 4, 2012 at 2:56 pm |

Jadien

"Humans had enough vegetation to survive" no, they didn't, which is why meat was needed to supplement their diet. Plant foods are lacking in much needed fats, which was needed to support our expanded brain. The only reason we can live without meat now is due to international trade providing us with higher fat plant foods that we couldn't get otherwise. Also, due to the shortening of our digestive tract, we can no longer extract as much nutrients from plant foods as our frugivore and herbivore cousins, increasing our reliance on meat sources. Australopithecus might have been the last human ancestor that actually didn't need to scavenge meat to live (though it is likely that they still did), after that, though, we needed at least some meat in our diet to survive. "Meat tasted better and was easier to get" Meat was not easier to get. In a transitional zone, there are literally thousands of plant-foods available. While hunting represented a large calorie investment, it had a very large pay off and they needed the fats and salts that meat provided to survive. "Their lives became harder" Their lives did not become "harder". The average hunter/gatherer group only has to scavenge for 4 hours a day, and hunt maybe once a week in order to get their food needs. This didn't change until the implementation of agriculture (which jumped that to 12+ hrs a day). Meat is sustainable if we eat it in the small amounts that it was meant to be ingested at. Unfortunately, our bodies are genetically tuned to go after high-fat, high-sugar foods as a survival mechanism. We ( Americans) ingest waaaaay more meat than our bodies actually need to sustain ourselves, and because of this companies like Tyson and others farm their cattle and chickens in horrible conditions to meet the demand.

July 4, 2012 at 3:44 pm |

Johny Law

'Hunters are killers'. Correction, GOOD hunters, or lucky hunters, are killers. Visit any states Fish and Wildlife sites and check out success rate percentages. Typically 30% or lower. Most hunters I know consider themselves successful if they harvest a big game animal every 3-5 years. All do it for the love of the outdoors and the chance to put some "free" meat on the table.

July 4, 2012 at 7:07 pm |

Peteyroo

Scupper, you choose to be a murderer. It's your choice. You do so of free will and unsound mind. I challenge you and the other hunters to hunt each other; at least it's a fair fight. It's one you will not choose because you are a coward. You will only hunt/fight when the odds are overwhelmingly in your favor. For once try a fair fight with another armed hunter!

July 4, 2012 at 4:35 pm |

David1958

We didn't 'climb out of the trees'. Can you prove that 'theory'?

July 4, 2012 at 6:13 pm |

jlb

i tried to be a vegetarian.but after you shoot a tomato there isn't enough left to eat

July 4, 2012 at 11:32 am |

lena

so you were a vegetarian who ate only tomatoes? no wonder you couldn't last long.... 'Vegetarians build their diets around a wide variety of plant foods, including grains (such as rice, barley, and oats), grain-based foods (such as bread, pasta, and cereals), legumes, vegetables, fruits, nuts and seeds.'

http://www.truestarhealth.com/Notes/1301007.html

July 4, 2012 at 11:42 am |

Jiiyo-kun

It's a joke. You just wasted your time replying to this. ARA's don't care if you shoot your own food. They want you off of meat and animal products completely.

July 4, 2012 at 12:15 pm |

V_1

There also could be a problem with the sense of humour... ;)

July 4, 2012 at 3:59 pm |

jlb

your an idiot

July 4, 2012 at 9:11 pm |

slupdawg

Only in a society where people have plenty to eat is this a moral issue. Be very glad, vegans, you have any choice whatsoever in even choosing your food source. As for your moral qualms with omnivores, stuff it. You have it good, your belly is full of carrots, so let's leave it at that. The omnivores are taking advantage of the fact we have plenty to eat, as well. That's not the case for much of the world. Wanna trade with them? Bet you'd eat anything, anything at all that you could get your grubby mitts on. And as for eating meat, be glad your distant relatives were omnivores, or you'd still be scurrying around in the trees with a much lower cognitive ability and brain case.

July 4, 2012 at 11:30 am |

lena

how can we know if we dind't try....

July 4, 2012 at 11:38 am |

slupdawg

Try what? Not eating meat in prehistoric times? Well, I'd say that the archeologists already answered your question when they correlated increased brain size and cognitive ability, i.e. tool-making and civilization-building skills, with an omnivorous diet. Don't take my word for it, though. Just go with your own beliefs and instincts and ignore the science behind it. And if you mean we should try starving to death to see what we'd be compelled to eat or not eat and trade places with those miserable wretches, knock yourself out and tell me how that works out for ya.

July 4, 2012 at 11:47 am |

lena

let's not forget that there is room for using more brain.... maybe if we didn't eat dead/denatured protein from animals, we would use more of our brain... first of all because our blood would have been able to bring more oxygen to our brain cells. samp applies to the rest.

July 4, 2012 at 11:48 am |

Rick

Kool Aid still om the menu I see

July 4, 2012 at 12:50 pm |

sam stone

the kool aid comes from both sides

July 4, 2012 at 2:02 pm |

edumacated

One simple thing that apparently all Vegan and Vegetarians do not wish to recognize or are just too ignorant to be aware.....for every bushel of grain or basket of veggies, insects, animals and birds are killed in the process. During planting, cultivation and harvesting mice, snakes, rabbits, tortises are crushed; birds who nest on the ground like pheasant and quail have their eggs or babies killed. Being raised on a farm, I saw skunks, rabbits, even the occasional fawn accidentally get killed in these processes. So for those of you that act as though your way of life has no negative impact on the environment, think again because it simply isn't true.

July 4, 2012 at 2:19 pm |

Karen

SO TRUE, edumacated! My favorite treatise about that is at http://www.plamondon.com, search his blog for "Why I'm Not a Vegetarian." A quote from it: "Ethically, of course, it doesn't matter whether you kill an animal outright and eat it yourself, or whether it dies because you displaced it so you could grow soybeans. You killed it for your own purposes either way."

i don't think any vegan or vegetarian would deny that some harm can come to the environment because of our food choices

July 4, 2012 at 2:51 pm |

V_1

Karen
my standing ovation to your post.

July 4, 2012 at 2:52 pm |

lena

“Livestock actually detract more from total food supply than they provide. Livestock now consume more human edible protein than they produce.… As the livestock sector moves away from using feed … that has no alternative value towards using crops and other high value inputs, it enters into competition with food … it raises overall demand and prices for crops and agricultural inputs.” – United Nations Report "Livestock's Long Shadow"

July 4, 2012 at 11:45 am |

Chris

Modern humans are STILL omnivores. We can and do eat virtually anything considered edible; meat, fish, seafood, veggies, grains, fruit, eggs, you name, we eat it.

July 4, 2012 at 4:07 pm |

V_1

I distinguish between 'professional environmentalists' and 'environmentalists by ignorance'. Latter are not completely lost for society, former are just dumb and/or dishonest bunch beyond salvation who sees no difference between digestive systems of cows and humans.

I consider myself a 'practical environmentalist': for instance I don't buy into greenwash crap like hybrids, electro cars, etc as I do know where the electricity coming from and so far noone ever calculated their real impact on environment during production and lifecycle – how much air/water/soil becomes contaminated to produce/service/recycle/dispose their components especially motors and batteries? Show me number compared to conventional car and we'll see. Greenhouse gases increase albedo of the planet and cut off Sun's radiation. Gases also dissolved in COLD water and return into atmosphere when water gets WARM, hence their increase in atmosphere could be caused by warming not other way around. I think we wast terrible amount of resources on single use things like packaging, even recyclable ones. I know that people will not overpopulate planet because number of children per fertile female is dropping in all countries including India, countries of S.America and Middle East. Population will stabilize around 10B.
Unlike People of The Cult I did not sleep through my science and math lessons. I also hunt because we are part of ecosystems and ungulates population in North America is in better shape that they were at time of arrival of first Europeans but predators are not. Those who suggesting cannibalism and hunting are the same should see their doctor ASAP.

PS For the Author I think moving out of NY was the key point. I would sentence people to live there. ;)

July 4, 2012 at 10:30 am |

lena

what do you think about raising 60 billion animals for food each year? Does they have any negative impact on the environment? How much electicity/land/water it takes to raise them? How much methane comes from the cows in adition to other green house gas from transporting, feeding, refrigerating, slaughtering? how many wild animals will we need to satisfy human's requirements for meat? Being vegan is actually a very good alternative.

July 4, 2012 at 10:52 am |

V_1

You're exactly right lena, That's why I personally prefer to HUNT and process my own meet and poultry. :D

And PLEEEEEAAAASE re-read about 'greenhouse gases' and what do they affect and how or take reading comprehension class again!

July 4, 2012 at 11:53 am |

V_1

Regarding number of wild animals needed... Three words: Habitat, habitat, habitat. Fewer golf courses will do to begin with. ;)
And I don't suggest YOU to start hunting. I'm totally OK with you being herbivore. This is MY choice and I don't care about yours and perceived 'alternatives'.

July 4, 2012 at 11:58 am |

lena

i bet golf courses would solve most of the problem.... maybe if we use our backyards too, the problem would be solved.... 'Cattle expansion in the Amazon in the last twelve years has been phenomenal. During this period, the number of cattle more than doubled, from 26 million in 1990 to 57 million in 2002. The growth in Brazilian livestock production – 80% of which was in the Amazon – was largely export driven.' – http://www.cifor.org/publications/pdf_files/media/Amazon.pdf

July 4, 2012 at 12:12 pm |

V_1

It appeas I cannot respond to lena on her rattle on cattle expansion so I post it here:

lena you're barking at wrong tree. Cattle expansion is driven purely by so called western diet and modern logistics of big stores which forces to overproduce and funnel food right into waste bin. 'Western diet' by amount of meats consumed is definition of insanity by itself. Being a hunter and processing my own meats and poultry I waste no edible parts and ... consume way less meat than an average 'store-fed' Canadian or American.

July 4, 2012 at 12:32 pm |

sam stone

V_1: Well put

July 4, 2012 at 2:04 pm |

David1958

Being a Vegan is fine in parts of the world were theres a large variety of affordable vegetables and fruits that provide the protein and fats humans need for healthy nutrition. Unfortunately, many in the world do not have access to that variety. But, they do have access to animal flesh, and, a limited variety of edible vegetation. It would be great if this was a perfect world, and everyone had access to enough vegetables and fruits to satisfy our nutritional needs, but its not.

July 4, 2012 at 7:11 pm |

lena

Here is an article about a teacher who brought eighteen grade 5 students to a slaughterhouse. The children reportedly were horrified to see how cows were processed into beef. Some of the students vomited, and most cried. If killing is normal, how come the children (the purest of us) have such a reaction? Would their teacher face disciplinary action if he brought them to see a garden? Killing is never right and deep inside we all know it. Many children become vegans when they find out what is behind their food. these are very intelligent, talented children and they thrive on a vegan diet.

I'm not impressed by your argument. Plants are living things. Do they miraculously stay alive when you eat them? Survival required killing. In the time you have taken to read this comment your body has killed thousands of bacteria (microscopic animals). Veganism is a valid choice, and on that makes sense for many people, but it does not eliminate the need to kill other organisms in order to survive.

July 4, 2012 at 11:29 am |

V_1

touché! :D

July 4, 2012 at 11:47 am |

lena

do plants resemble humans as much as the animals? Do they have the same refined nervous system.... what is the difference between a human and a plant then? Should we harm people because we already harm plants?

July 4, 2012 at 12:01 pm |

Henry

While the plants we eat are certainly being killed, most of us believe, with good reason, that plants are not sentient. Chickens, pigs and cows are very likely sentient. That doesn't mean they can do algebra, but it does mean that they experience feelings, including fear and panic, especially when they are about to be slaughtered. We need to be mindful about that when we harvest animals for food. If we choose to kill animals for food, we have a moral obligation to be as kind as we can.

July 4, 2012 at 2:56 pm |

Guest

Lena-So your entire position is based on some arbitrary standard of sameness between a human being and whatever that human wants to eat? Are you able to read what you type or do you just black out and type nonsense?

July 5, 2012 at 1:03 am |

Wendy

Lena is the reason I am always a bit embarrassed to admit I am a long time vegetarian who is raising her kids as veggies. The author is not talking about slaughterhouses, nor are most of the responders.

I am an ethical vegetarian who eats eggs when I get them from my neighbor's happy chickens. I refuse to buy any animal product that isn't ethically farmed and that doesn't exist so I don't eat most animal products.

I personally could not kill an animal for meat. However, I sure as hell respect a good hunter who kills their own meal, than the people who put no thought into their meals, grab their plastic wrapped chicken from a supermarket, their commercially produced eggs, and their factory farmed milk.

My husband is a fisherman and as much as I don't want my boys to fish, they will have the option of doing it as they get older. They will know where their foods sources come from and I hope that if they choose to fish for meals, they will do it consciously and be grateful for the meal they are about to eat.

Honestly, if most vegans weren't on their soap box all of the time, they would realize that they have more in common with educated hunters and could focus on the policies of our food industry for change!

July 4, 2012 at 12:36 pm |

lena

Wendy, eggs are not vegetables. But i have to say, this is a great article when it comes to brining awareness to others about the environmental issues caused by the Livestock Industry.

July 4, 2012 at 12:48 pm |

David1958

'than the people who put no thought into their meals, grab their plastic wrapped chicken from a supermarket, their commercially produced eggs, and their factory farmed milk.'

Wow, what an ignorant comment. Good for you, that you have access to these eggs from 'happy chickens'. Most people don't. We buy what we can find at our local super market.

July 4, 2012 at 7:16 pm |

Wendy

Hey David, I never judged people who buy at supermarkets, only those who put no thought into their food purchases. Even Farmer's Markets take food stamps now.I refer mostly to people like my mother who disdains hunting, but happily eats her chicken from a supermarket. We, as a society, don't want to admit where our food comes from, we just shovel it in our mouths.

Lena, I didn't say I was a vegan, I am a vegetarian, some of us eat eggs.

July 4, 2012 at 9:47 pm |

Dave

Lena,

Lots of kids raise their own livestock at home or as part of programs like 4H and FFA and are not traumatized.

July 4, 2012 at 2:25 pm |

Peteyroo

DoodleBug, you couldn't be more wrong. If you'd spend less time in a bar and more time in a classroom, you wouldn't be such an oxygen thief.

July 4, 2012 at 11:20 am |

Carla

This article is an excellent example of why the disparate groups in this country should listen to each other, instead of shout. Texas hunters have been saying these things for years (check out Texas Parks and Wildlife) but the word never seems to get out to the eco-foodie types. Great job of doing just that!

Please read The Five Biggest Myths We Learned from Bambi. We've raised two generations now who honestly think owls and rabbits are friends, that deer retire to Florida when they're older and that humans aren't part of the ecosystem. http://outdoorsdownsouth.com/the-five-biggest-myths-we-learned-from-bambi/

July 4, 2012 at 10:16 am |

lena

animals have mothers who are very attached to their babies, they love each other, they run for their lives, they enjoy life, they have pain, they cry, they communicate with each other.... have you ever wonder what feelings a bird might have to mate for life? Did you observe how one of them reacts when a partner is dead.... there is evil and good in this world; it is no wonder in what category hunters and butchers fall under.... we humans are here to grow our compassion and love, to be closer to goodness. If i didn't die so far on a vegan diet, you won't either and no one would. I am healthier, have more energy, a better immune system, look younger than my meat-eater peers (not to brag but to let you know about the benefits of being vegan)

July 4, 2012 at 10:36 am |

hunters are anti-wildlife terrorists

I never bought into the lie that hunters love nature. The truth is they love KILLING NATURE. Hunters, the ones who hunt deer and elk to feed themselves, I don't see any problem with them, but the trophy hunters or sport hunters or whatever you want to kill these gutless and spineless cowards are subhuman trash.

July 4, 2012 at 11:05 am |

DIStein

Hunters do more to support wildlife conservation than any other group. They also understand better than anybody what it means to actually participate in the ecosystem in a very direct way. We have been hunters for longer than we have been modern humans. The bulk of the anti-hunting, anti-meat attitude is a result of the detachment from nature and food production combined with popular anthropomorphic depictions of non-human animals. I live in the city and no longer hunt, and frankly I find it boring. I do have friends and family who are avid hunters, and always appreciate the venison they generously give to me.

July 4, 2012 at 12:46 pm |

hunters are anti-wildlife terrorists

Hunters kill more wildlife than any other group. Saying hunters care about nature is like saying rapists care about women. Hunters are destroyers of wildlife and they are subhuman.

July 4, 2012 at 6:55 pm |

Peteyroo

Outhouse in the South, wrong! I suppose you enjoy killing because it feels good to have the power of life and over defenseless animals. Find another hunter and the two of you go "mano a mano" in a fair fight.

I hunt because choose to participate in the food chain you pretend to have removed yourself from. The truth is, the only reason you're even able to write these words is because your ancestors killed enough lions, tigers, bears, snakes, alligators, crocodiles to make room for your existence. That you choose not to hunt is fine, but being a vegan is only possible for you because the people who preceded here were not. As someone else pointed out, every form of life on this planet displaces something else.

And yes, I enjoy every part of hunting and fishing including the time spent walking in the woods, watching and listening to the actual killing or catching to the processing and the eating. I can grow my food, gather it, hunt or fish for it and that makes me happy! My Creek Indian ancestors were doing the same thing for generations before I came along, and I hope my progeny is still doing so for generations to come.

BurnSaber, Mother Nature cursed you with with a low IQ and no imagination. It's not your fault. Mother Nature is a tough old hide and she obviously saw something bad in you and wanted you to suffer. She knew what a worthless person you'd turn out to be, so she didn't want to waste much effort on you. She stripped you of morality and civility. What else did she do to you, you poor soul?

July 4, 2012 at 11:31 am |

David

There is nothing unethical about hunting for your food.

July 4, 2012 at 10:53 am |

Peteyroo

As long as you're hunting it in the vegetable aisle of your local supermarket.

July 4, 2012 at 11:25 am |

ONTHunter

Yes Petey-Poo, because poring more money into corporate scandal america is exactly whats going to turn this recession around.

Go grow your own food, care for it, then harvest it. Then I might have an ounce of respect for you. Until then, STFU.

July 4, 2012 at 12:19 pm |

lena

so typical of a hunter.... is that all you can research?

July 4, 2012 at 9:18 am |

ONTHunter

No thats not all I can research....I found this awesome video of a guy who shot a doe, but couldn't find it for hours. His hippie girlfriend was with him chewing him out the whole time about how he's a douche for killing bambi or some nonsense. Well, when they finally find the doe, he pulls out his knife and begins gutting the deer. Unfortunately, when you gut a deer that has sat for a few hours, theres gasses that build up in the stomach and digestive system. Well his knife accidentally pierced the stomach, and KABOOOM!! The whole stomach contents explode out and end up all over his GF. Well the cocky little bastard pipes right up and says "Hey you guys had the same lunch!". Priceless.

July 4, 2012 at 12:24 pm |

lena

i bet it is someone with Hunter in their name who came up with the photos and spiced it up with a bit of a lie. and you are so attracted to each other, all you see and admire is the result of your ego. wake up dear, be wise not foxy. Don't be among the arrogant and deceiving

July 4, 2012 at 9:24 am |

AnneKreligan

1) You're kidding yourself. 2) Encouraging people to hunt for their meals is retarded these days, is irresponsible, and cruel, and 3) "hunted" meat is no better for your health than the crap you get at the grocery store. I see you around my neighborhood, I may take up hunting myself.

July 4, 2012 at 8:12 am |

ONTHunter

Hunted meat is 100% organic, unlike the meat from the store that is hormone fed to maximize the meat per animal. Hunted meat is not caged for its entire life. It is a wild and free animal. It is a much healthier choice than eating store bought meat. Whether you feel it is necessary or not is irrelevant. Killing animals is nature at work. To threaten harm on someone because they hunt is 1) retarded, and 2) probably not the safest for your health.

You are free to choose your diet, as am I.

July 4, 2012 at 8:59 am |

Peteyroo

ONT Punter, I see you're up to your old tricks again. Animals are not wild and free if you're out there killing them. Leave them alone and I'll agree with you. Just this once though. Usually you're full of crap.

July 4, 2012 at 9:14 am |

ONTHunter

They are wild and free. They are free to walk wherever they please, eat when they want...there is no fence surrounding them. As a hunter, I have to use my skills to locate, track, pattern, and ethically harvest the animal. Its not like I just take a couple steps into the woods and theres 30 deer there to shoot. It takes weeks of planning and preparation.

Instead of just saying "no you are wrong, I am right" why don't you actually provide some factual evidence for your beliefs. Until then, all you are doing is spouting some first grader nonsense of "i know you are but what am I'.

July 4, 2012 at 9:22 am |

Kieran

Silly hippie. See above picture.....

July 4, 2012 at 10:09 am |

Kieran

The fact you call yourself "Peteyroo" is also nauseating......

July 4, 2012 at 10:11 am |

Peteyroo

Keebler-Anne, I see you're out of jail already. You didn't know she was only 12 years old. It was an easy mistake. Anyway, you're back on the street ready to shove old ladies in front of buses and prepared to burn down orphanages.

July 4, 2012 at 11:35 am |

Chris (The other Chris)

Wild game isn't always 100% organic; I've seen deer happily chowing down on apples and pears in the orchards near my house, places that apply herbicides, insecticides and non-organic fertilizers on a regular basis. Deer munching wheat and corn, also heavily sprayed with various chemicals; pheasants and quail helping themselves to those same wheat and corn fields and orchards. Or how about the elk that come to feeding stations in the winter and eat non-organic grain and hay? Unless you hunt waaaay out in the boonies, most wild game anywhere near human farms has probably eaten non-organic food somewhere along the line.

July 4, 2012 at 4:38 pm |

AJ

Hunted meat is healthier. Not only is it organic, but it's leaner and higher in Omega-3s.

Hunting is not cruel, it's the most humane way to get meat on your plate. The animal has lived a free natural life until being killed for food, it hasn't been in a cage or penned up.
Also, in many areas there are no natural predators (people living in suburbia tend to not want mountain lions walking through their backyards); either the prey-animals such as deer are hunted (and the vast majority of hunters eat what they kill); or they die of starvation and disease from being over-populated.

Hunting is also necessary for crop production. Deer do more than $100 million worth of damage to crops each year, without hunting that number would be significantly higher.

July 4, 2012 at 9:14 am |

Primal 4 Life

Everything you have said is 100% incorrect.

July 4, 2012 at 1:31 pm |

dan

Went hunting once, then could not eat the meat. The connection with food and a life was too clear. A prime rib for dinner from an animal I never saw is easier to handle. The animal it was taken from would never have one day of life if no one ate
their meat. There is always a way to do it better if we would only try.

July 4, 2012 at 8:08 am |

SixDegrees

I'm sure little – maybe even none – of the animal's meat is wasted by hunters. But if you want to talk about making full use of the animal, nothing even comes close to today's factory farms, where every tiny scrap of the animal is converted into either food or some usable material. Everything – fur, bones, hooves, teeth – is processed until every useful scrap is recovered. If thoroughness of use is your metric, you simply can't beat highly industrialized farming.

July 4, 2012 at 7:59 am |

lena

torturing others is not accepted in the 21st century. We have plenty to eat and wear without using someone's teeth, someone's skin, someone's bones...

July 4, 2012 at 8:08 am |

kellory

Lena, you are confused. ALL life is killing, even if it is just seeds. The energy stored in ALL forms of food is life. You can not exist without the killing of life. We are omnivores, we eat everything, and we have the teeth and digestion to prove it. You may not like the idea of killing, and I understand that. My own sister went vegan for several years, until health issues forced her back onto animal proteins. I understand your point of view, it is just wrong.

Nature is never "Fair". In nature the strong always eats the weak, and usually while it is still alive. The rules for eating in the wild are the same as the rules in a gun fight. "If you are in a fair fight, your tactics suck!" Stealth, speed, and overwhelming force are the rule, not the exception, and hunters kill with the most compassion, and the cleanest/ quickest skill of all predators.
And true hunters make more use of their kills than predators in the wild who will eat until full and leave the rest. We waste nothing of the meat, and might even mount the head if it is an impressive animal. Not to gloat, but more like a post card found along the journey. It is a tribute to the animal and a reminder of the hunt.
I carry a trash bag with me when I hunt as well. I clean up the trash left behind by the hikers, bird watchers, and PETA people who share the wild with me. And while hunting/ conservation groups buy thousands of acres of land for continuing conservation efforts, for the betterment of wildlife, PETA type groups protest, but buy no lands, raise and release no game animals (rabbits, pheasants, ect.) only predators such as the wolf program in Yellowstone. Which , by the way, is decimating the deer population in that area.

You are entitled to your opinion, and your lifestyle, as am I. But your reasoning is deeply flawed.

July 4, 2012 at 9:51 am |

lena

dear Kellory, you are confused... i sugest to reflect upon your life and the life of others instead of shooting. Just take a bowl of beans, a vegan humburger with quinoa on the side, a salad and for one day, go into the wilderness and try to see if you can observe nature in full. i guarantee you it's much better than looking for someone to kill and having blood drip throuhg your fingers.

July 4, 2012 at 12:30 pm |

kellory

Lena, I eat quite a lot of salads, and steamed or raw veggies, and I'm sure I am in better health than you. Being in the wild as much as I am, keeps me fit and strong. I am almost never sick.
I don't need to go out and contemplate life and death, I am already pretty good at both. (grins)
As for "blood dripping through my fingers" well, that is a fact of life during the butchering process, and I am an adult, I can handle it.
Fact of life is you would starve to death before a new crop could come up, unless you had a store house to hold product from past harvests. You can only go a couple of weeks without food. As a meat eater, I could hunt it, grill it, and eat it within a couple of hours. Your version is not sustainable without a sizable investment in land, buildings, and time. It requires a long term investment to be feasible.

July 4, 2012 at 3:36 pm |

Karen

"Torturing is not accepted in the 21st century"... what lala land are you living in? It may not be "accepted" to good people, but it goes on just the same. It seems to me to be quite accepted in the Middle Eastern and Asian countries, and it goes on in your town, too. In my own smallish town not too many years back, an evil man broke into a family's house less than 1/2 mile from a freeway, bludgeoned the parents to death in front of the children, kidnapped the boy and girl, took them out in the forest and raped and tortured them for a couple of weeks, eventually killing the boy. The only reason he was caught is that for some unknown reason he came into a town with the girl and someone recognized her and called the police. You can still see a lot of "KILL DUNCAN" bumper stickers around here.

The animals I raise and butcher for my table are not tortured, they are killed far more quickly and humanely than if a coyote got hold of them.

July 4, 2012 at 2:43 pm |

Peteyroo

SixDungarees, I suggest you eat vegetables. It's healthier for you and for the animal.

July 4, 2012 at 9:16 am |

ONTHunter

Actually, in most cases, it would not be healthier for the animal. Most wild animals die before maturity from natural predation, disease, starvation, exhaustion, or road kill. Dying via a hunter is probably the best way for that animal to go, minimal pain, minimal suffering.

July 5, 2012 at 9:10 am |

Mandor

If most people had to kill their own game, skin their own game, butcher the carcass, etc, I bet you would probably see significantly less people chowing down on cheeseburgers. There's a lot of people who would simply be too squeemish to handle it. So i have NO problem with hunters who will in fact do all of that.

July 4, 2012 at 7:05 am |

Sun

You would be correct. I grew up hunting, (I'm female, BTW), did much of the butchering, and after I went out on my own, raised food animals. If you can't do it, no shame in not eating meat. More for the rest of us.

July 4, 2012 at 7:44 am |

Sun

Oh yea, and let me add that I tanned the hides as well, or plucked and used the feathers. If you've never tanned a hide, you are in for a treat.

July 4, 2012 at 7:45 am |

lena

i'm a female too and I was never able to understand how humans kill animals or humans. I wonder what kind of a mother or wife you are. it's kind of interesting, i don't know many females who hunt. to me it seems that something is missing there. Did you check your cholesterol level before being so proud of eating so much meat?

July 4, 2012 at 8:33 am |

AJ

My cholesterol numbers have gotten better since adapting a primal-style diet (basically paleo + dairy). I eat more meat now, and very little grain. My numbers were never "bad", but they have moved more solidly into the "good" category. My good cholesterol HDL, which has nearly double in the last couple years, from barely over 40 to in the high 70s!

WOOOOOOOOOOOW....are you freaking serious?? You go on and on about evolution, and how women have rights now....and then you go on to say that you don't understand why a woman would hunt?? BECAUSE SHE WANTS TO!!!

And to question someone's mothering abilities based on meat in their diet is retarded....If you want to strip peoples parental rights, go after that couple that fed their baby nothing but soy milk because they were vegans. The baby died at 4 weeks of age due to malnutrition. Who's the crazy group again??

July 4, 2012 at 6:21 pm |

Peteyroo

Sump, killing is wrong except in self-defense. Were these animals in your house attacking you? Or were you in their homes attacking them?

July 4, 2012 at 9:20 am |

ONTHunter

What is wrong with you? You spout this absolute nonsense that even your fellow vegans don't understand you. Humans are humans, animals are animals. Humans kill animals then eat them. If you choose not to partake in the partay, then suit yourself. I, for one, am going to go enjoy my deer steak, with wild mushrooms, wild green onions, and a bbq'd potato. Cheers!!

July 4, 2012 at 6:24 pm |

sam stone

I am a long term vegetarian (30+ years), and I don't care what others eat. To me, this is not an ethical issue, it is a dietary one.

July 4, 2012 at 10:16 am |

lena

some are vegans for health reasons, some for compassionate reasons. I would say that being vegan only for health reasons is a bit egoistic (all about me, me, me.... better than eating the flesh of another being of course) That's why i disagree that hunting is not an ethical issue.

July 4, 2012 at 1:32 pm |

sam stone

my health is a function of my diet. if you consider that egotistical, then fair enough.

July 4, 2012 at 2:08 pm |

sam stone

lena: is hunting a greater moral issue than meat eating in general?

July 4, 2012 at 2:14 pm |

VaHeel

In my part of Virginia the deer population has exploded. It is not unusual for us to see 10-20 deer in our front yard. They are no longer afraid of humans and not the least bit "skittish". In the woods surrounding our property there is no green vegetation from 0 to 7 feet from the ground. The deer have eaten it all away. When we first moved here 23 years ago I was enamored of the Bambis but now I just view them as pests. That is why I decided to buy a crossbow and become skilled with it. I don't have to put on camo or get in a tree stand or cover myself in buck urine to get a deer. I just have to go out to my driveway and wait. In regular clothes.
My point is that the eco system has gotten dangerously out of balance when it comes to deer populations. The only natural enemy they have in this area is a Chevy. Hunting is the only practical and humane way to control the population. Otherwise hundreds of thousands of them will starve, succumb to disease or get hit by a vehicle (of those that do the lucky ones die immediately). You may consider hunting to be repulsive but in this day and time it is a necessary form of management. And if you eat meat it is a responsible way to acquire it.

July 4, 2012 at 11:04 am |

22X Richer

Deer hunting was enjoyable when I was a kid. We ate what we killed. The eco-nuts should buy into this ancient custom for a couple reasons; 1) hunters, like fishermen, are not always successful (tv shows make it look as if they are and slaughterhouses are 100% successful), 2) hunters usually clean up after themselves because most truly enjoy the vista view of pristine wooded areas, 3) as you mentioned, hunters contribute millions to wildlife conservation endeavors in the several states (though most ends up in a general fund which is spent on domestic social programs) and finally, 4) hunters are generally salt of the earth folks who you can have a conversation with without mentioning religion or politics.

July 4, 2012 at 6:38 am |

Chris

You know I find it interesting that some people think it is evolving to turn into a vegan.
It think they should really consider what that means. Look to the animals that you are supposedly trying to save.

Is your goal to be a happy simpleton? For instance like a dear? Their life is, eat, birth and stay out of jaws of a predictor.

When I look for the most intelligent animals on the planet almost everyone of them eats meat.
Now there is the elephant, very intelligent, and doesn't eat meat. And spends pretty much every waking hour eating.
Hmm have you noticed that about animals that eat only plants? They spend as much time as possible doing it.

So it seems to me that if your goal not to eat meat, must also be to spend all your time sitting around eating.
Wait that's right that is what most people are doing in the US, that is one reason they are so fat! (and stupid)

July 4, 2012 at 5:18 am |

lena

this is not true. Why mislead so many people by talking nonsense when you didn't even care to find out what and how vegans eat?

July 4, 2012 at 7:56 am |

xMoonWitchx

You're so, so close and bring up interesting points except the douchebaggery at the end was wholly unnecessary.

Let me just point out that everyone hunting their own food is unrealistic, unsustainable and downright dangerous. There are simply too many people on Earth to have HALF of the population hunting in this manner for sustenance, let alone a "way forward".

Anyhow, grasses and plants have such low nutritional value that you must eat a lot of it to reap the benefits of its digestion. And speaking of digestion, it's a difficult process and requires almost as much calories to process the material as it's benefit. Larger brains need protein. You need massive amounts of protein to sustain the human brain. Like it or not, we're meat eaters. We came out of those trees because we ate meat.

..why are we even having this discussion.

July 4, 2012 at 7:58 am |

thenagain

MoonWitch, there are a great number of healthy, intelligent vegetarians. Entire societies, in fact. Gandhi is one example. His brain seemed to function very well without ever taking in meat. I'm not a vegetarian, but I am intelligent enough to put two and two together.

July 4, 2012 at 9:00 am |

lena

that is an old believe. Most of these conclusions were made by studding only people who eat meat. Now, other information is revealed such as that we eat too much protein and it actually very bad for us; the animal protein is hard to digest and comes with cholesterol and other bad to health elements; we don't need to use so much energy for digesting the food if we eat the right food; we should use protein that does not require too much work from our digestive system and wears out our organs; our protein should have enzymes and not deprive the body of the enzymes; the food should make our body alkaline – a vegan diet is the perfect diet. In addition, a vegan diet has all the nutrients unless you eat only peanuts all the time. When you eat a variety of plant-based foods, you get all the nutrients you need and you do not feel sluggish after eating. I wonder, how come so many people do not do a simple research on who vegans are, how they feel, what they eat and how their life changed.....

July 4, 2012 at 9:04 am |

Andrea

Big difference between a Vegetarian and a Vegan...you should find out what either is before using it in a at most uninformative Post.

July 4, 2012 at 8:29 am |

KP

"There is not a single argument nor a single fact that can be offered in favor of flesh eating that cannot be offered, with equal strength, in favor of cannibalism." – Herbert M. Shelton in Superior Nutrition
What people eat comes down to individual choices, beliefs and one’s own traditions; PETA people accusing meat eaters and meat eaters abusing PETA activists are just arguments devoid of any logic!
PS: Hunting animals is slightly ethically better (for meat eaters, of course) way of getting one's meat for food, than purchasing meat from a grocery store.

July 4, 2012 at 2:55 am |

22X Richer

Don't forget your PETA dues.

July 4, 2012 at 6:40 am |

Vern Sawyer

Abusing PETA people is fun, easy, and burns calories*

*calories burnt are negligible

July 4, 2012 at 7:35 am |

Peteyroo

BurntSoul, it is unethical to kill animals.

July 4, 2012 at 11:38 am |

jlopresti76

I have been a vegan for 5 years and a vegetarian for over 20 years. However, I do not have a problem with hunters...at least not the ones that hunt to feed themselves and their families. I do not agree with those that hunt for sport; that seems unethical to me. I definitely prefer hunting over factory farming and agree with a lot of the comments regarding the quality/purity of the food in comparison to the meat of antibiotic-fed animals available at the supermarket. I would not and could not hunt an animal being who I am at this moment but if I was starving, would that position change in order to survive? Most likely, depending on the environment and the circumstances.
In terms of the 'evolution' argument, I think it is a matter of respecting what you are given and what you take. If you hunt, respect the animal that is feeding you.

July 4, 2012 at 2:49 am |

scott

Very well said !!!

July 4, 2012 at 8:58 am |

ONTHunter

I applaud your point of view. Very well said. Probably the most realistic response from anyone in this discussion.

July 4, 2012 at 9:06 am |

sam stone

Very well said. I agree totally.

July 4, 2012 at 11:22 am |

Eater of limbchicken

I'm convinced that Chris is not a hunter and unclear on the concept. As well as being someone who needs something to do besides the internet.
I hunt. I hunt for many reasons. It brings me close to nature. It expands my senses. It makes me feel more alive. It provides sustenance for my family that is nurishing and free of the chemicals used in modern agricultural production. It connects me to the circle of life that my ancestors participated in.
I like venison. I just finished some delicious BBQ squirrel. I contribute more over the course of a yr in Pittman-Robertson funds than Chris will in his lifetime to the cause of conservation. As well as providing habitat and food plots for wildlife on my own land.
Humans are designed to eat meat and as evidenced by the eyes in the front of our heads, are predators. To deny it is to deny your ancestral history..
As for the argument that hunting won't feed the world, you're right. A plague that killed about 1/2 the humans on this orb would go a long way toward solving the hunger problems we have. Humans have no self control when it comes to reproduction. And no cohesive strategy as a species for survival.

July 4, 2012 at 2:01 am |

SixDegrees

Well, no. Humans are omnivores, and are extremely well adapted to that role. We basically suck as predators, until you let us make weapons – we're slow, don't have claws, and don't even have teeth that can properly catch and kill things. And we can happily eat and digest all manner of fruits, vegetables, nuts and other non-meaty items. Millions of years of evolution has made us extremely broad spectrum eaters.

July 4, 2012 at 8:04 am |

ease

This article is not about whether hunting is ethical or not. We know it's not, but that's beside the point. Recently, there was an article on whether eating meat and fish was ethical. This article was written as an after thought.

Many issues with factory farming and fisheries have been brought up–damage to the environment, cruelty to animals, and health problems.

What is happening is we're experiencing a mind shift where rights are now given to others that were never there before. Or at least it's being discussed. Marriage equality, rights of the 99%, women getting equal pay. Plus we have an African-American in the White House.

And now the Vegan lifestyle is becoming popular. People are actually talking about the welfare and rights of animals.

People these are wonderful things. It means we are evolving.

On the other side there are the traditionalists that don't want change, nor do they believe in evolution, which is sad. There is a push-back on the positive changes. Articles like this are written to encourage people to stay on track with tradition. They not only discredit those who are making the changes, but also making an attempt to put a positive spin on activities like, "it's okay, what you are doing is ethical, it's humane."

This article even attempts to add a 5th reason, when the 5th reason is really apart of the 4th reason. I guess desperate times come for desperate measures.

Change will happen no matter how much you try to stop it.

It's all I have to say on this topic. Now to open up the minds of racists;)

July 4, 2012 at 12:48 am |

ONTHunter

Just because the vegan diet is becoming popular, doesn't mean that everyone has to do it. THATS MY RIGHT!!

There is nothing wrong with change. I fight for human rights, I've been to Afghanistan. I've seen what people have to live with over there. I also believe in tradition and heritage. It is a concept that is lost in many of today's youth. North America has lost its culture. Two countries built under the Christian beliefs have all but abandoned them. I am sick and tired of having to mold my beliefs to fit what is now "socially acceptable". Same thing with hunting. I hunt because I enjoy it. My father hunted, so did my grandfather, and so on. Hunting is a family tradition that does YOU no harm, therefore, bugger off and let me live my life. I'm not asking you to like hunting, I really don't care if you do. But do not dare try to trample on my rights to somehow fit your social agenda. My activities do not affect your life, ergo, do not interfere with mine.

July 4, 2012 at 1:05 am |

Peteyroo

ontPunter, slavery was once a proud American tradition as was massacring Native Americans. Care to defend that heritage?

July 4, 2012 at 1:56 am |

Guest

So since you have no logical grounds on which to attack his argument, you try to link it to something totally unrelated and attack that?

For all your posts indicating how much smarter you think you are than everyone you disagree with, you really are lousy at this.

July 4, 2012 at 4:19 am |

c smythe

survival of the fittest . . .

July 4, 2012 at 4:30 am |

ONTHunter

Those are HUMAN rights issues, which exploited PEOPLE. I do not exploit an animal when I hunt it. They are free range animals with much better sight, aural, and sense of smell. They have the advantage in the woods, its their turf.

I capitalized the main points for ease of understanding. If that doesn't work, I'll break out the crayons and draw you a picture.

July 4, 2012 at 7:06 am |

Desmond Hartin

Interesting that you have basically equated the hunting of animals to the torture and enslavement of millions kidnapped from Africa.....Or in your eyes are the experiences of animals and generations of my ancestors essentially the same?

July 4, 2012 at 11:21 am |

Peteyroo

Jest & ONT Punter, you kill because you enjoy killing and you love the power it gives you. I suggest you match up against each other or against other hunters. You'd have the thrill of the hunt and it would be a fair fight instead of the cowardly way you now conduct your murdering.

July 4, 2012 at 11:41 am |

lena

you don't want to do it but it is the wise thing to do

July 4, 2012 at 8:13 am |

ONTHunter

Its wise because you say it is?? Lets be realistic. The farming of meat is never going away. There is too much at stake with the economy to start eliminating entire markets. Like it or not, humans eat meat. They always have, and probably always will. Your individual opinion is not going to sway the minds of 7 billion people who's opinion differs from yours.

July 4, 2012 at 9:12 am |

Primal 4 Life

Wrong. Here is why, if hunting were unethical, it isn't, NONE OF US WOULD BE HERE!

There is no end goal of humanity. What you think humanity should become is just that, what YOU think it should become. Luckily, I live in a free country and when I deem you are full of it, and you are, then I get to not participate in your endeavors and you get to deal with the fact that you don't even have the majority on your side.

Do what you want, let others do what they want,and the world will be far better because of it.

Make me do what you want, and you will never live another day without looking over your shoulder.

"we know it's not".... Ha! You say hunting is not ethical like it's scientific fact.... well let's look at it this way. Food web, humans are omnivores, it's normal for animals to be killed for food, etc. Your post is written as though it's a bunch of common sense fact, when it's very obviously a bunch of liberal propaganda. Sorry, I don't buy it. Guess I'm not "evolving" like you. You are free to be a vegetarian but don't tell me it's unethical for me to kill and eat my own meat. Even vegetarians are responsible for slaughter of animals – think what every farmer must do to keep pest animals from eating his crops. Animals will be intentionally killed to put food in your mouth, no matter what your diet. And you are probably too much of a wimp to grow all of your own food and completely sustain yourself without relying on some industry.

Also, you think it's sad if someone doesn't believe in evolution. Well, it is no nearer being proven than intelligent design/creation. I believe there is very obvious design in all aspects of life, suggesting a designer. It's up to opinion and you can think it's sad if I don't believe in evolution if you want. Yes things can micro-evolve to adapt to environment but I don't see it possibly going any farther beyond that. My opinion.

Now go back to eating your rabbit food and tofu blocks. Won't bother me, long as you don't tell me or anyone else they shouldn't hunt their own food. I will keep living the way humans have for thousands of years, an omnivore, and will enjoy the fruits of my labor from hours spent in the woods outsmarting wild animals that are probably smarter than you.

July 4, 2012 at 1:12 am |

Primal 4 Life

You know that is a great point. Not one oft these self righteous dolts could harvest an animal if their life depended on it. I feel like that is a blessing.

July 4, 2012 at 1:21 am |

Peteyroo

Ratman925, where do I start? It's going to take a long time to straighen you out. My non-hunting friends and I can take turns with you. You'd make our job easier if you had finished Third Grade! Oh, well, we'll try. One of us will teach you how to tie your shoes then review the task every morning when you report for class. Yes, Crapman, you're going to school. Having such a low IQ doesn't help matters either. Wait out at the curb for the short, yellow bus tomorrow morning.

July 4, 2012 at 2:03 am |

Primal 4 Life

I'm sorry but just because you think those things are good means absolutely nothing. The hunter gather lifestyle is superior to anything different we have today. Change, simply for change, is stupid. Always has been, always will be. We were put on this earth with absolutely EVERYTHING we needed. All we have done is make thing worse, as fun and as cool as things are. There is some very cool stuff out there these days. Trust me, I like my house more than the cave I will use if I have to.

Mother Nature is more intelligent than all of humanity combined. If you can't accept that fact, then you have not evolved at all.

July 4, 2012 at 1:17 am |

Peteyroo

Pimped 4 Pleasure, I suppose you enjoy pushing old ladies in front of city buses, too. What do you do for fun when you aren't burning down orphanages, or scoring child pornography at the park?

July 4, 2012 at 2:07 am |

Vern Sawyer

So agriculture is just a big scam, then? It wasn't necessary for the rise of civilization 6000 some odd years ago in the fertile crescent?

July 4, 2012 at 7:48 am |

Eater of limbchicken

Animals have no rights. We as humans and stewards of this world have resposibilities to manage them in a cogent manner.
MOST people don't have the opportunity to try hunting. That isn't a choice. That's an accident of birth.

July 4, 2012 at 2:04 am |

Peteyroo

Eater of LimpSomething, animals have no rights because murderers such as yourself deny those rights. In a better world animals would have rights and you'd be back in jail with all your friends.

July 4, 2012 at 11:47 am |

c smythe

ethical or not – Who are you to tell me what is ethical ? I think it would be ethical for you wingnuts to mind your own business. I eat meat and I don't much care how it is made as long as it is safe for my family. Just how safe is your american GM soy and corn? Are you wealthy enough to go organic only? I wish I had your money . . .

July 4, 2012 at 4:28 am |

Vern Sawyer

I eat vegans.

July 4, 2012 at 7:36 am |

Vern Sawyer

And who cares what's ethical anyway? Good and evil are just words. I've never hunted but it looks like a blast. Too bad there's no feral pigs around where I live, just boring, baconless deer. I bet blowing a deer's brains out would be just as thrilling as offing a pig, though.

July 4, 2012 at 7:39 am |

Peteyroo

Male vegans?

July 4, 2012 at 11:48 am |

ease

Such a great discussion. The minds are really at work here. This is a christian country? Don't believe in evolution? The world is flat? (Oh, I was expecting to see that somewhere).

Believe what you will, but the one thing you all have to remember is there are no personal choices in this world. The fact is we are all connected. All life came from the same seed. First modern man came from Africa. Everything you do affects another. You can't escape that fact.

The continued existence of nature is important Without it we cease to exist. Without us, nature will grow and flourish. Better be compassionate and humane in a harmonious manner. The world will rid of us when it's had enough.

Vegetarians and Vegans are healthier, environmentally friendlier, and obviously kinder to animals. Vegetarians and Vegans have been around for a long time, longer than you are aware of. Many have lived happily on a plant-based. Killing any sentient being is unnecessary and unethical. Agree or don't agree, that's your choice.

And yes I'm a proud liberal tree-hugging, animal rights, human rights, environmental activist and democratic socialist. I embrace life and the equality of life.

If I've been rude or insulting I apologize, but I will always work for justice in any way possible.

You may have the last word. Too many things to do.

Peace:)

July 4, 2012 at 9:09 pm |

Primal 4 Life

News Flash – You are not special, you are not better than anyone else, period. Your choices do not make you a superior being in any possible way. Nobody need ever worry about you and the way you think things should be.

July 5, 2012 at 9:30 pm |

randy butler

used to be able to hunt, but now most land here leased out to doctors and lawyers, my guns are getting rusty, I have no permission to get in , cant affoard a lease. I'll buy the store crap

July 4, 2012 at 12:22 am |

Primal 4 Life

So apparently, according to vegans and vegetarians, mother nature made humans the only creature on the face of the earth that craves food that will kill them.

It is 100% obvious, to anyone with a functioning brain. that if we were meant to be vegetarian, we would be, without any argument.

July 3, 2012 at 11:58 pm |

lena

too bad that there are many people like you who like meat too much to admit that there is something wrong about eating it. We are the only specie that can choose what to eat... and often time we choose what is not the best for us. Look at how many children are in hospitals with terminal illness, check how many more are now compared to 10 years ago, and check how the diet changed. I believe the animal products almost doubled in our diet. did you know, btw, that milk causes osteoporosis and is not a good source of calcium? The body requires more calcium to digest the milk then it gets from milk and it takes if from our bones..... Guess how many doctors know about it... I think Americans, who drink so much milk, shouldn't even know what osteoporosis is, instead, they suffer the most.

July 4, 2012 at 12:09 am |

Primal 4 Life

There is nothing wrong with eating animal products, period. If there was, the human race would be extinct.

You need to stop cherry picking your responses, In every single case where you have been proven wrong, you simply stop responding. That pretty much solidifies you are full of it.

No one cares that you are a vegan, and even less care that you want all of us to join you. Spend your time more wisely, you have so precious little of it.

July 4, 2012 at 12:23 am |

lena

and how would you know? do you worry that if you go vegan you will die? I actually wonder what is your interest to mislead so many people since yesterday morning. Do they pay you for that? I just hope you are not a cnn employee. That would be sad because people in the media should really be open minded and should know much more about a topic before commenting or making a conclusion. I mean you should learn more about veganism and not only find information that suits your ego and your believe and making conclusions according to your limited imagination. Your comments on veganism are so unintelligent.

July 4, 2012 at 8:02 am |

Peteyroo

Pimped 4 Life, we would not die out without meat. That is pure nonsense.

July 4, 2012 at 11:58 am |

Primal 4 Life

Sorry lena it is you who is misguiding people not me. Everything I have said is 100% correct, backed by science, and easily verifiable.

July 4, 2012 at 1:38 pm |

ONTHunter

There is zero scientific evidence to back up that THEORY. Thats all it is, a theory. There's also the theory that so many parents shelter their kids from bacteria that their bodies dont develop an immune system. Kids that practically take baths in hand sanitizer, and are forbidden from getting dirty.

Its funny that you mention milk though, as I do not consume milk other than on my cereal. Mammals do not need milk after infancy. Humans are the only species that continues to consume milk into adulthood. All the nutrients found in milk can be substituted with a balanced diet of meat, fruits and vegetables.

July 4, 2012 at 1:11 am |

Peteyroo

Ann Thunter, what do you have against milk? I suppose you don't eat eggs either? You are so confused. I do feel sorry for you. Your family must be so ashamed of you.

July 4, 2012 at 12:00 pm |

ONTHunter

I am not against milk, I just don't drink it.

July 5, 2012 at 12:12 pm |

Ed

lena is a nutcase. So you don't eat meat. Have you never had a leather product? Shoes? Purses? Is it OK for that cow to go without skin so you can have your things? You come in contact everyday with items made from animal products weather you eat them or not.

July 4, 2012 at 7:37 am |

lena

Since i became vegan I don't wear anything from animal products. There are so many things to wear and so many things to eat. Try to be vegan, learn what it is, research why people go vegan and maybe one day you will become enlightened on the subject. I was a meat eater and I am vegan now. I know both sides and when people think that they know everything I wonder how? Did you try to actually see how it is? It seems you don't even know that cotton is vegan and there are so many leather alternatives, there is absolutely no need to wear someone's skin.

July 4, 2012 at 7:54 am |

ONTHunter

@lena...so what exactly do you wear that does not exploit animals in any way? Every product we buy has an effect of animals, directly or indirectly. Polyester is petroleum based, do we really need to argue the effects of oil on the animal kingdom? How about cotton? How much forest has been torn down in order to grow something that offers no eatable value whatsoever. It doesn't matter if you don't wear leather, your clothing exploits animals just as much as the rest of us.

July 4, 2012 at 8:10 am |

lena

I agree that everything we use exploits that's why I choose to use things that are less exploitative and at least are not linked to murdering the animals (when a human being exercises their killing tendencies with no remorse). If you don't see a difference between being a vegan and a meat eater, I can't help. Killing animals is below human's dignity. It is not natural and it is cruel. It is another aspect of our arrogance and desire to dominate and cause pain to others. Every person should reflect upon this with an open mind. I noticed some people here don't even know that vegans eat a wider variety of foods than meat eaters..... and do not graze all day long, and many healed themselves from incurable deceases. Shame on those who know so little but like to stick to the past and their habits.

July 4, 2012 at 8:25 am |

aroz

Huh?

July 4, 2012 at 1:30 am |

Peteyroo

Pimped 4 Life, really? Do rabbits and cows scare you?

July 4, 2012 at 11:50 am |

rocking t

I grew up on a farm and we slaughtered our own chickens, cow, pigs and sheep. We also hunted deer, rabbits, and shot depredating pests that endangered live stock and crops. A farm boy or girl knows where meat comes from and knows an animal dies to provide meat. Our forefathers hunted to feed their families and the farmers raised live stock to fed the city people. The hunters provide the funding to support wildlife hapitat and conservation. Would the hikers and other non-hunting sportsman accept an 11 – 20% excise tax on all there gear, accessories and pay additional fees to supplant the funds hunters provide for wildlife and the economy.

July 3, 2012 at 11:40 pm |

lena

if the government wouldn't pay millions of dollars in subsidies to the unsustainable livestock industry, there will be enough for the environmental protection. it is also mostly the livestock industry that ruins nature, including the natural habitat of our wild animals. Why would we need the little money from the hunters when the government can pay much more if they would know how to manage the tax money better? Even humans would be healthier and less money would be needed in this area.

July 4, 2012 at 12:00 am |

Primal 4 Life

You want a link, fine. Google Joel Salatin. See how he runs his farm. If at that point you still object. We have nothing more to say to each other. I will wish you well and move on.

He may well be the greatest modern American farmer there is.

July 4, 2012 at 12:12 am |

rocking t

You are either nieve or a simpleton. The cost for wildlife conservation in 50 states is on the order of billions and the hunters provide most of that through excise taxes and licence fees and the money spent in the economy in pursuit of their hobby, sport and putting food on the table. To replace this the general populace would have to see an increase in taxes. It appears that the radical vegan and those opposed to hunting are looking through rose colored glasses and are to rigid in their opinions to accept others pursuit of happiness as guarented in our countries founding documents.

July 4, 2012 at 12:36 am |

Eater of limbchicken

First of all, you chowderhead, the government doesn't bear the responsibility to fix all that you THINK is wrong with the world. YOU do. And secondly their funds are limited and must be stewarded to benefit their biggest contributors. Not the whiny vegans who contribute nothing to their campaigns and less to conservation.
I have no problem allowing you to eat what you want. Why can you not allow me the same courtesy?

July 4, 2012 at 2:11 am |

Errogant 2

Thinking ahead to Lena's wold of the future.......where will we be keeping all of the livestock after everyone stops eating them? Cattle aren't native to North America, and don't survive for long without human stewardship.

July 4, 2012 at 11:44 am |

Peteyroo

ErrorPants 2, we could still take care of them until they finally die of old age. It's not that tough.

July 4, 2012 at 12:03 pm |

lena

we should make sure we don't artificially inseminate them as we are doing now... why multiply so many animals in so little time? maybe the livestock industry is dictating our food choice or what doctors have to prescripbe medications?

July 4, 2012 at 12:24 pm |

Primal 4 Life

It actually doesn't. Humans became smaller when we switched to agriculture. A grain based diet is as bad as it gets for humans.

July 3, 2012 at 11:33 pm |

lena

My goodness Primal4Life... when did we became smaller and switched to grains as a human race? If we changed our diet, it was more towards a meat dense one. Why don't you research a bit and find out how many animals we eat now compared to even 20 year ago. And don't be so mad.... it's a free country, everyone can say whatever they want.... but not everyone should do whatever they want especially when it comes to killing others.

July 3, 2012 at 11:44 pm |

Primal 4 Life

Sorry, that is a scientifically proven fact. If you ever bothered to do any actual research, you would know that.

July 3, 2012 at 11:50 pm |

lena

can you send me a link, I would love to read it

July 3, 2012 at 11:51 pm |

Primal 4 Life

"Can you send me a link?" LMAO typical, pathetic, liberal, who has to be spoon fed and cannot be bothered to do any research on their own.

Sorry honey, I don't give people fish, I teach them to fish. Swim or drown, your choice.

July 4, 2012 at 12:02 am |

Peteyroo

Pimped 4 Life, liar, liar, pants on fire!

July 4, 2012 at 1:45 am |

Peteyroo

Are you a doctor?

July 4, 2012 at 11:51 am |

oodoodanoo

Buying a weapon and shooting something long-distance is not a fair fight. Make that weapon yourself.

My greatest respect goes to those guys who catch catfish with their bare hands. They risk drowning to pull up huge fish that have poisonous spines.

*THAT* is ethical hunting.

July 3, 2012 at 10:47 pm |

Tom

You don't get out much, do you? There is no such thing as "A Fair Fight" in nature. There is life and there is death in nature, and they are pretty much the same thing. Survival of the fittest is the law of nature. And if other people were not creating food for you to eat, oodoodanoo, you would be gone in a week.

July 3, 2012 at 10:50 pm |

Peteyroo

Tums, did you build your own house, or did someone build it for you? Did you built your own automobile, or did someone make it for you? Lightbulbs? Shoes? Gasoline? How many items did you actually build for yourself?

July 4, 2012 at 11:54 am |

Primal 4 Life

When you protest the sharks that eat seals, we can talk. Until then, shut your ignorant pie hole.

July 3, 2012 at 11:04 pm |

Eater of limbchicken

Bwahahahahha! I like it!

July 4, 2012 at 2:12 am |

Del Knudson

Set out to see nature in action. Try to get hold of some video of a snake swallowing another animal alive. Watch snakes and other animals killing their prey slowly. Watch some video and slides on animals freezing to death. Toss a canary into the air in an area full of hawks and other predatory birds, and enjoy the action. See the real world as it is.

July 3, 2012 at 11:28 pm |

Primal 4 Life

I have access to a full cad mill and lathe. I can make any weapon I choose. So if I make it myself it's suddenly OK right? That is exactly what you are saying.

July 3, 2012 at 11:36 pm |

DIStein

I suppose you believe that lions should eat each other instead of wildebeests and zebras. Hunting isn't the same thing as fighting.

July 4, 2012 at 12:54 pm |

Guest

I went hunting with Dick Cheney once

July 3, 2012 at 10:33 pm |

greg

ouch

July 4, 2012 at 4:31 pm |

Aloyisius

I hunted once and it sucked. We had to track a wounded deer for miles before we found it dead. It was hours of waiting just to do this. I couldn't stomach the skinning either. Made sense in pioneer days but not anymore. Factory farming sucks too. I'm so on the verge of becoming a veg. I don't care what they say about hunters and conservation, blah, blah. A wild animal has it rough enough in all kind of weather and terrain, with insect pests and a need to find water and food and avoid predation. Then add in all the hunters wanting to get a hard on over a pair of antlers and hunting is just stupid.

July 3, 2012 at 10:03 pm |

advocatusdiaboli

Hunters are just another predator yet you talk as if there would be no predation if there were no hunters. Most other predators eat their prey alive, hunters are the most humane of predators. G o ahead be a vegetarian, but until you do, some else is doing what you don't have the guts to do yourself so you have no right to criticize those with enough character to do it themselves and not cop out.

July 3, 2012 at 10:50 pm |

Del Knudson

I am organizing a "safari of sorts", where we will travel all over the world killing all the predators: snakes, lions, tigers, cheetahs, panthers, crocodiles, bears, falcons, and so on. Then all the prey can reproduce with no checks and will have it really nice. Hope to see you soon, joining up with us to improve the world.

July 3, 2012 at 11:54 pm |

Eater of limbchicken

Don't forget all the skeeters and chiggers and ticks while you're at it, OK?

July 4, 2012 at 2:14 am |

Ed

If you had done your part by being a competent marksman, you wouldn't have had to track your deer for miles.

July 4, 2012 at 7:21 am |

What?

+10

(Either s/he or whoever took the shot.)

July 4, 2012 at 9:36 am |

DIStein

I have hunted a few times, and it can be agonizingly boring, but I realize that deer who are are not killed by hunters are likely to die of starvation in the winter, disease, predation by non-human animals (mountain lions, wolves), and from being hit by cars. I do enjoy eating animals that were hunted by my friends and family members who are avid hunters.

July 4, 2012 at 1:10 pm |

reg

If you shoot it, eat it. If you are not going to eat it don't shoot it!

Shooting an animal to hang it's head on a wall is NOT hunting or a sport.

July 3, 2012 at 10:02 pm |

Primal 4 Life

I accidentally shot what I thought was a quail. It turned out it wasn't. I was really bummed, I don't like to kill things I won't consume.

It was a meadowlark, and I cleaned it, cooked it, and it was delicious.

That is my rule, if you kill it, you gotta eat it. I also do not hunt with people that do not use the entire animal. I may be on of the few people around that whole roasts doves, tiny as they are. It's worth the effort to me.

July 3, 2012 at 10:30 pm |

ONTHunter

It is illegal to allow edible game meat to spoil. If a hunter does not want the meat, or does not want all of it, they can give it to someone or donate it to a soup kitchen. As long as the animal is being utilized, I really don't care why it was harvested.

July 4, 2012 at 1:20 am |

billybart

Jeffrey Dahmer tried this but got a little mixed up on the "ethical" part.

July 3, 2012 at 9:17 pm |

nessiria

I eat a plant-strong/vegan diet for health reasons, but am not opposed to people who want/choose to eat meat. I think hunting your meal is probably the most ecologically-friendly way to go about it instead of factory farming. It gives people a perspective on food that is lacking in this country. I grew up in Taiwan where we often serve fish, the entire fish, head and everything. This tends to freak out Americans who are use to seeing their food neatly packaged and saran wrapped. This article is a great reminder to people that the meat and dairy you consume come from other living things and that all life needs to be respected.

July 3, 2012 at 8:49 pm |

lena

I am sure not too many people can be hunters and kill other living beings and hopefully many will choose a vegan diet. Killing is never right.

July 3, 2012 at 9:00 pm |

Guest

How fortunate we are that you've figured out the answer for us and have decended from your pedestal to share it.

Hunting for whatever animal-based protein they could get was what your ancestors did for thousands of years. If grocery stores disappeared tomorrow, you'd starve within two weeks, and I wouldn't have even consumed half of my last kill.

Absolute statements are often difficult to defend.

July 3, 2012 at 9:09 pm |

lena

our shelves could be full of organic plant-based foods instead. A hamburger would cost around $30 if all the environmental damage in producing it would be counted. Our ancestors made a mistake, as they did with sacrificing, killing others, surpressing and dominating. Every time we had to erase one of these habits from human's behaviour, there were contradictions. I'm not on a pedestal, the ones who think that there is no room for new ideas, concepts and change are. All it takes is to say, what if it is time for humans to make a change. as a human race, we always had to do it. We should keep only what is beautiful from our ancestors. They also learned from their ancestors. It took one or a few humans to try the meat and start hunting that eventually was passed from generation to generation.

July 3, 2012 at 9:25 pm |

Primal 4 Life

Just ignore her, she is as dumb as a box of rocks. Just read all her posts, she proves it with absolute certainty. She is a terrible human being imo. I don't respect anyone that decides for others what is right. If I could, I'd have her deported. She is a disgrace to all Americans.

July 3, 2012 at 9:36 pm |

Guest

The cost of factory-farmed hamburger is 100% irrelevant to the topic discussed here which is one person going out and hunting one wild animal that has nowhere near the environmental impact of an equivalent amount of beef. You're no better than some other folks posting here. You can't attack the logic of my statement, so you try to connect it to something completely unrelated and easier to take a swing at and attack that instead.

Also we're all alive so I don't think our ancestors made a mistake. I'm pretty sure they did PRECISELY what nature designed them to do.

July 5, 2012 at 1:09 am |

Primal 4 Life

OMG shut your ignorant pie hole. You have no right whatsoever to foist your ridiculous notion of what is right and what is wrong on anyone else.

Be a vegan, and shut up about it. Some of us don't ever want to join your side and never will. I tolerate you right not to consume animal products. That means YOU HAVE NO CHOICE but to tolerate those of us who choose to do so. It's called freedom. Something you clearly have no notion of.

July 3, 2012 at 9:34 pm |

DIStein

AMEN!

July 4, 2012 at 1:13 pm |

deadfiddle

Lena, are you not killing the plants that you eat? They are living things also. If humans were meant to eat nothing but plant based materials, we wouldn't have canine teeth. We are designed as omnivores, with the capacity to eat almost anything. If our meat diet wouldn't have worked we would have developed the means to fully digest plant material, but it was not needed as meat is a very compact and effecient form of nutrition! Most of us humans choose to eat meat, and I choose to kill what meat I eat whenever possible, as it makes me appreciate what goes into the meal. I have no qualms with people who want to eat a plant based diet, but please leave me to eat whatever diet I choose.

July 3, 2012 at 10:06 pm |

advocatusdiaboli

So killing not right when natural predators do it then? So Nature is wrong for having predators then? You aren't thinking clearly. Predation is nature's way and hunters are predators.

July 3, 2012 at 10:52 pm |

Eater of limbchicken

so killing a monster like Hitler or Dahmer would have been wrong to save a bunch of humans? You've been brainwashed, dearie.
Animals kill to live. Whether it's some poor screaming plant eaten by an elephant or a screaming rabbit eaten alive by a coyote. We all kill to live. Accept it.

July 4, 2012 at 2:18 am |

billybart

As a child I grew up around hunting and fishing. I wnet antelope hunting one time and got mine, i enjoyed the experience, but there is no way I could have eaten all the meat so I ended up hunting for people to take some of the meat. Way more effort than what it was worth. That and the fact I believe having guns around the house is dangerous I don't hunt anymore.

I still fish occasionally but I figure the cost per lb of getting a fish if I do it myself is probably ten time that of getting it from the store.

July 3, 2012 at 9:22 pm |

DIStein

I no longer hunt either, I found it boring and not worth the effort. I do eat meat hunted by others though. I still have a .22 and a 12 gauge for occasional target and trap shooting. It's a lot less dangerous than owning ad using a car, which I also do.

July 4, 2012 at 1:17 pm |

liz

Cruelty is not ethical.

July 3, 2012 at 8:38 pm |

Tom

Nature is cruelty. Life and death are the same in Nature. Stop your whining.

July 3, 2012 at 10:35 pm |

advocatusdiaboli

Human hunters kill more humanely than any natural predator.

July 3, 2012 at 10:53 pm |

Del Knudson

Amen, at least most intelligent hunters. My Dad survived during the depression, killing a pheasant a day (S.D. had over 60 million pheasants at the time). My brothers and I would jump fences and run like mad to get to a bird as it fell to the ground if it were winged only, so we could immediately kill it, and it would not lie there and suffer, and the meat would be wasted if it sneaked a few feet away and hid under the grass. We killed for the meat, and killed as humanely as possible.

July 4, 2012 at 12:03 am |

MashaSobaka

You, and most of the hunters in this forum, are describing the best possible scenario for a hunter. And yet there is ample evidence of hunters who hunt purely for sport, relentlessly support predator eradication (which devastates the ecosystem whether you care to admit it or not), and couldn't care less how their actions impact the environment so long as they get their trophy kill. (Case in point: Alaskan moose and caribou hunters who are fine with wolves being wiped out because they are too narcissistic to realize that wolves are a keystone species without whose presence the ecosystem collapses.) I have no problem with hunters who take only what they need, who *actually* make sure that nothing goes to waste (though I've never actually met a hunter who doesn't leave most of the carcass rotting), and who respect the ecosystem *as it exists* and do not demand that the government change the balance of nature to benefit the human hunters. But do not attempt to insult your audience by implying that this is the status quo of the hunting industry. You are too easily proven wrong.

July 3, 2012 at 8:36 pm |

Guest

Except you offered not one shred of proof. Cite even one trustworthy source for anything that you claimed. I dare you.

July 3, 2012 at 9:10 pm |

Teller

And you haven't offered any proof to the contrary. Ergo, fvck yourself.

July 3, 2012 at 9:41 pm |

Eater of limbchicken

Offer a point. Provide examples. Or cite references. To do otherwise is disingenuous and incites the nener-nerner-nener that you have so wittily engaged in.

July 4, 2012 at 2:22 am |

Guest

I made no claims, so I have no burden of proof.

Right back at you.

July 4, 2012 at 4:08 am |

Peteyroo

Jest, I see you have your head up your backside again.

July 3, 2012 at 10:04 pm |

Tom

Are you looking out through your belly button PettyPetey?

July 3, 2012 at 10:51 pm |

advocatusdiaboli

Few natural predators eat the the whole animal including the skeleton either. Distorting the true with lies only works for others who hate hunting like you do. The rest of us see the lies.

July 3, 2012 at 10:55 pm |

Del Knudson

We killed and used all the meat. I never really understood people who killed for a trophy head, or fished, and upon actually catching the fish, threw it back in. I only speak of the mostly farmers who I knew who were very careful hunters, cared about animals, and cared about other people. Though, we did show some condescension toward the part-time hunters from the city who didn't follow ethical rules (perhaps not as much sneering condescension as you show towards all hunters, but condescension nevertheless).

July 4, 2012 at 12:09 am |

scott

any hunter that leaves game is breaking the law...period...hunters are full the management of wolves, like all species they need to be controlled or they take over....

watch a wolf kill a animal and tell me hunting is cruel....

July 4, 2012 at 9:13 am |

scott

any hunter that leaves game is breaking the law...period...hunters are for the management of wolves, like all species they need to be controlled or they take over....

watch a wolf kill a animal and tell me hunting is cruel....

July 4, 2012 at 9:14 am |

Sanguinem Bestiae

I'm not going to read the whole inane back and forth, but will pose a question. If humans are supposed to subsist only on a vegetable diet wouldn't we, shouldn't we, be equipped with a rumen, a reticulum, an omasum, and an abomasum? And then there is that nagging fact that the human digestive system has no capability to digest cellulose. Darn facts...

July 3, 2012 at 8:25 pm |

countrygirl

Don't forget about the B-12 saga and complete protein. Many folks would have died in the last thousands of years without eating meat, insect and other protein sources.

July 3, 2012 at 8:31 pm |

Peteyroo

Good point, but those days are now in the past. Time to move on. Stop killing animals.

July 3, 2012 at 10:06 pm |

Eater of limbchicken

Why? You've not convinced me with your stellar debating skills.

July 4, 2012 at 2:24 am |

Vern Sawyer

No.

July 4, 2012 at 9:13 am |

lena

if that what we need, I and many other vegans throughout the ages would be dead by now and we wouldn't be able to digest vegan food. B12 comes from soil, organic plant-food has it if not washed in javex. Maybe meat eaters eat more B12, but it doesn't mean they are not deficient. First of all, some of it is distorted in the highly acidic stomach due to the large amounts of acid required to break down animal porting. Second, the same acidic environment coagulates our blood, our red blood cells loose their negative charge, stick to each other and can't go through our capillaries. This alone prevents oxygen and nutrients to get to our bodily cells. On the other hand, the healthy red cells of a vegan person can bring in full the little B12 found in organic foods.

July 3, 2012 at 8:46 pm |

lena

*some of it (and many other vitamins) is destroyed

July 3, 2012 at 8:48 pm |

countrygirl

ThE B-12 problem was established in the medical/Scientific community and a well know fact. Not sure where your info is coming fro?. Many people have problems assimilating B-12 due to pernicious anemia and low HCl. Animal protein has bio-available B-12. Persons from generations ago would not have had food/vitamin choices to accomodate these issues and this is the point.

July 3, 2012 at 8:59 pm |

lena

The scientists also claimed that plant-based foods do not have the all the essential amino-acids and so forth. The problem is that they never researched into the vegan diet. It is not too late though, there are many, many vegans now and hopefully one day people in the medical field will start comparing vegans verses meat-eaters. Than they can say for sure... btw, according to a large Tufts university study as many as 40% of Americans have a b12 deficiency, most of their diets consists of animal protein.

July 3, 2012 at 9:10 pm |

Sanguinem Bestiae

Lena,

What is it you do for a living?

July 3, 2012 at 9:05 pm |

countrygirl

Medical/analytical research.

July 3, 2012 at 9:07 pm |

lena

you don't have to be a scientist or a doctor to realize that food is what makes us sick or healthy.... And if you look a bit more into the science of a human body, you will realize how different kinds of denature protein destroys one's digestive system. Why rely solely on the opinion of doctors. Sometimes they don't have time to look into the new findings and research. Sometimes they don't want to accept they are wrong. Many people got off the medications and are still alive because they changed to a plant-based diet. If a plant-based diet can heal why does one need to be a scientist or doctor to figure that animal products cause diseases? btw, doctors also get sick. if they knew the secret, they would be healthier.

July 3, 2012 at 9:18 pm |

Primal 4 Life

You use supplements. DO NOT lie about it and say you do not. There is no other way to get what you need, period.

Meanwhile those of us following the Primal Blueprint need not supplement at all.

July 3, 2012 at 9:45 pm |

lena

our body is designed to digest fruits, legumes, whole grains and vegetables. If one has a variety of these foods, all the nutrients are included and the body doesn't have to struggle to break down the complicated denatured animal protein. I've mentioned earlier, all animal protein coagulates our blood – our red blood cells change their negative charge to positive and can't go through capillaries to provide oxygen and nutrients to our bodily cells. All of our decease start with unhealthy cells, and our cells start deteriorating when the blood can't provide bring to them oxygen, nutrients and remove the waste and Carbon Dioxide. there are many other detrimental side affect of eating animal protein including enzyme deficiency, cholesterol problems, excess denatured protein, constipation....

July 3, 2012 at 9:45 pm |

Primal 4 Life

OMG you could not be more wrong if you tried. There is not a mammal on the planet that was meant to eat grains. Yes that is right, not one. Birds are the only group of animals that do well on grains.

Grains were never meant to be consumed by humans. In fact, consumption of grains is the reason we face widespread obesity. A whole grain bagel is worse for you than a doughnut for sobbing out loud.

Please just stop talking. You are doing nothing but harm to the people you claim to care about. Knock it off already.

July 3, 2012 at 9:50 pm |

Smarterthancarrot

I'm sorry but what did the Inuit in the Actic survive off of? Seal fat, Caribou, uhhhh animals! You are a complete retard.

July 4, 2012 at 2:15 am |

AJ

Our bodies are meant to digest vegetables, fruits, and meat.

We are NOT meant to digest grains. If we didn't grind and cook grain, it would come out the exact say way it went in, and land in a nice pile of fertilizer. Grains spread their seeds by mammals eating them and then "dropping" them.
An example of an animal designed to eat grains would be a bird, and they have a specialized organ (gizzard) that they use with sand/pebbles to grind to grain so they can digest it.

July 4, 2012 at 9:30 am |

advocatusdiaboli

Don't forget we have canines for reason—we were meant to eat some meat.

July 3, 2012 at 10:56 pm |

Peteyroo

AvocadoDiablo, and I'm sure your boyfriend thanks you.

July 4, 2012 at 1:48 am |

Vern Sawyer

Nice homophobia, it shows what an evolved and enlightened being you are.

July 4, 2012 at 9:14 am |

hunters are anti-wildlife terrorists

Killing wildlife is not a sport nor will it ever be. How can one say that killing wildlife with a high powered rifle is a sport?

July 3, 2012 at 8:23 pm |

Guest

Not all of us do it with a gun.

Are you aware of how sanctimonious you sound? The people that have to interact with you off-line must find you insufferable.

July 3, 2012 at 9:12 pm |

Peteyroo

Jest, you shouldn't kill with anything.

July 3, 2012 at 9:28 pm |

Guest

How did your ancestors survive?

Humans are a predatory species. I kill to eat and thousands of years of evolutionary history are on my side.

July 4, 2012 at 4:09 am |

hunters are anti-wildlife terrorists

You cowards who think killing wildlife with a high powered rifle is a sport are LOSERS.

July 3, 2012 at 10:27 pm |

advocatusdiaboli

And people who think it's okay for natural predators to kill and eat other animals but human animals cannot are irrational.

July 3, 2012 at 10:57 pm |

Primal 4 Life

It is a sport. You saying it isn't doesn't mean a thing.

NEXT!

July 3, 2012 at 9:53 pm |

Peteyroo

Punked 4 Life, are you saying that animals have no right to life? Are you saying that humans, based and their ability to kill at they please, have the right to kill? Might makes right?

July 3, 2012 at 10:09 pm |

Primal 4 Life

I have no need to explain anything to those of your pathetic ilk. Enjoy being inferior to most.

July 3, 2012 at 10:37 pm |

Tom

Actually, there is no such thing as Animal Rights. The whole idea is a PETA myth that has no basis in fact or any notion of reality.

July 3, 2012 at 10:38 pm |

advocatusdiaboli

Humans have canine teeth to eat meat, it's in our DNA and thats why most culture do it. In fact predation is nature's way a fact you ignore daily.

July 3, 2012 at 10:59 pm |

Tom

PETA Members are Terrorists.

July 3, 2012 at 10:37 pm |

Peteyroo

And hunters are murderers.

July 4, 2012 at 1:43 am |

Guest

Obvious troll is obvious.

2/10

July 4, 2012 at 4:10 am |

ease

PETA does what they can to make the world a better place for all living beings.

It's the NRA that's actually a terrorist organization. A lot of lives lost because of their influence, most recently Trayvon Martin. They don't care about people, they just want to get as many guns into people's hands as possible legally and illegally.

Their days would be numbered if a lot of lawmakers weren't in their pockets.

So much injustice in this world:(

July 5, 2012 at 11:17 pm |

ease

And all for money, like all corporations. Profit over people. Money over life:(

July 5, 2012 at 11:22 pm |

hunters are anti-wildlife terrorists

Hunters are anti-wildlife terrorists. They get off on smoking animals such as coyotes, wolves, cougars, bears, foxes, etc with their high powered rifles. They are cowards who love killing wildlife. They are not conservationists. Yes, they pay to slaughter wildlife, but that is because they have to. If they don't, they are breaking the law and killing wildlife illegally.

July 3, 2012 at 8:19 pm |

Primal 4 Life

All of us are a million times better than you loser!

July 3, 2012 at 9:54 pm |

hunters are anti-wildlife terrorists

You're a cowardly LOSER. Do the world a favor and turn the gun on yourself you cowardly wildlife killer.

July 3, 2012 at 10:28 pm |

Primal 4 Life

Nope that would be you. Faced with danger you would run away crying like a little girl. You could not be counted on for anything, by anyone.

I'll keep doing what I do as I am superior to you and your kind in every possible way, on every possible level.

July 3, 2012 at 10:39 pm |

Peteyroo

Pnked 4 Life, the loser and low-life rat-b*st*rd is you my friend.

July 3, 2012 at 11:23 pm |

Primal 4 Life

Nope it isn't. I am better than you in every possible way.

NEXT!

July 3, 2012 at 11:42 pm |

Peteyroo

Pimped 4 Life, you can't help the way you are. Mother Nature denied you intelligence and imagination.

July 4, 2012 at 1:50 am |

Tom

PETA is a Terrorist Organization.

July 3, 2012 at 10:39 pm |

Peteyroo

Terrorists against whom? Murderous hunters?

July 3, 2012 at 11:24 pm |

Primal 4 Life

Well I have looked in the law books, murder pertains only to the killing of another human. There isn't a single law on the books that attributes the killing of an animal as murder.

NEXT!

July 4, 2012 at 12:50 am |

Peteyroo

Pimped 4 Life, it's time to change the laws!

July 4, 2012 at 1:34 am |

Virgel

Lily is absolutely correct on her entire outlook of "hunting for your own dinner". She has a very good grasp on the subject. I was however confused with the word SPORT used in the poll. I chose hunting for sport and food because i took SPORT to mean for the challenge and enjoyment of being in the outdoors. I do not hunt to hang something on the wall but its always a great treat to be lucky or good enough to tag a mature animal while trying to fill the freezer.
It is nearly impossible to explain to ANTIs the meaning/feeling of hunting,killing, butchering and eating a wild animal. Personaly its a scenario of emotions. Excitement and a head full of adrenaline at the moment of the shot, a tinge of remorse at the sight of the lifeless animal, genuine gratitude for the earths gift and finally an awesome feeling of satisfaction while eating venison backstraps and drinking an earthy wine with friends or family. Not many things are as satisfying.

July 3, 2012 at 8:13 pm |

kellory

If you despise hunting, yet eat meat, you are a hypocrite. Unless you are a true vegan, (no animal products) you are a hypocrite.

I have been a hunter for as long as I can remember. I was raised to be as self-sufficient as I could be. I can remember helping to clean long guns at about 8 or 9 years of age.

It is free range meat, killed with the blessing of the department of Natural Resources, It cuts down on car/ deer accidents (thus saving lives), It is very lean, healthy food for my family, and it comes in a biodegradable wrapper (which can also be used),

It is no different than eating the meat provided by your butcher, other than your meat lived in a cage, while mine roamed free.
I am paying for ammo, weapons, permits, tags, gas, lodging, food and drinks along the way, camo clothing (expensive), blinds, deer stands, hiking boots (special), as well as taxes! All of this supports jobs and tourism. The fees paid to hunt pay for conservation efforts here and around the world. Hunters are the greatest conservationists you will ever meet.

@truthordare7, deer herds are uneven across the country. Some places they are more scarce, and in others there are unlimited deer tags available because the deer herds are too large! It has a great deal to do with the terrain, food, and predators. Coyotes, are a problem for young deer, and even mature healthy bucks can be brought down by them. (that has been proven on camera). In answer to your question, Yes, control the predators, and there is plenty for all.

Keep in mind as well, there are hunting seasons (allowed dates to hunt) beyond those dates (set by the state and DNR) you may not hunt. The only animals that can be hunted year round are coyotes, groundhogs, and wild boar (which are not indigenous to the United States, and the DNR want eradicated. (they destroy the habitat of many other creatures).

And even for Boars, I must have a valid hunting permit (fees and taxes) I am a hunter, and proud of it!

July 3, 2012 at 8:11 pm |

Peteyroo

Kibbles, you're proud of killing things. How admirable! Are you compensating for a small endowment? Or perhaps you wet the bed too much? You feel inadequate unless you have absolute power over life and death for animals?

July 3, 2012 at 9:31 pm |

Primal 4 Life

Says some dolt whose only lay ever was a potato chip.

July 3, 2012 at 10:04 pm |

Peteyroo

Punked 4 Life, say hi to your mom for me. Tell her I won't be able to see her tonight.

July 3, 2012 at 10:12 pm |

Primal 4 Life

If you want to be with my mom, more power to you. I mean I love her, she is my mom, but GROSS!

Seriously, if you can do that, but not hunt, you have serious issues the like of which the world has no answer for.

July 3, 2012 at 10:42 pm |

Peteyroo

Punked 4 Life, yet you continue to give answers.

July 3, 2012 at 11:27 pm |

advocatusdiaboli

We are proud to be human and it's in our DNA to kill to eat. We have canine teeth for a reason. You are fee to deny this and not to follow your destiny if you like, but your judgment is meaningless to most of the rest of us. I am sure you oppose all fishing as well.

July 3, 2012 at 11:02 pm |

Peteyroo

AvacadoDiablo, are fish animals?

July 3, 2012 at 11:29 pm |

kellory

Peteyroo
"Kibbles, you're proud of killing things. How admirable! Are you compensating for a small endowment? Or perhaps you wet the bed too much? You feel inadequate unless you have absolute power over life and death for animals?"

Limperoo, Why yes, yes I am. It takes great talent and skill to do what I do. But don't worry, With unlimited practice and those round pointed scissors they taught you to use in kindergarten, you too might one day be able to sneak up on your dinner successfully.
" Are you compensating for a small endowment?" I am afraid so. You see, in my family, anything less than 24 inches IS considered small, and at only 18" I am thought of as the runt of the pack. While most of the men in my family can wear crew socks, I must wear knee highs to keep the tip warm while I hunt. But that is my cross to bare.
" Or perhaps you wet the bed too much?" How much IS too much? What is your limit?What amount do YOU find acceptable?
" You feel inadequate unless you have absolute power over life and death for animals?""You are right, you know....The bunny rabbit made all the right career choices, and got the big office that I wanted. So in revenge I snuck out in the middle of the hunting season, and went Postal on every living thing I saw!

Limperoo, Elementary school children could give you lessons in Mockery. You suck at it, Give it up

July 5, 2012 at 10:47 pm |

David1958

Lol. Wow, I can remember when I was 3 years old. So, you were hunting when you were 3? Or do you just have a really bad memory?

July 4, 2012 at 7:20 pm |

sonas76

Wow, a lot of nastiness directed at hunters.

I don't hunt on state game land, I hunt on tribal land. My mom's people have hunted since time began. We have very strict rules about what/where/when and how to hunt. None of the animals are trophies, all of the animal is used for food of clothing. We honor the animals spirit upon it's death. So, am I going to get told how wrong it is for my tribe to still hunt and keep some of our ancient traditions? Probably.

July 3, 2012 at 8:06 pm |

Peteyroo

Native Americans are a different story.

July 3, 2012 at 9:32 pm |

Primal 4 Life

Way to be a racist.

Typical clueless liberal hypocrite with ZERO credibility.

July 3, 2012 at 9:55 pm |

Peteyroo

Punked 4 Life, Native Americans have a completely different relationship with nature. The illegal immigrants who arrived on these shores starting with Columbus changed evgerything, and not for the better.

July 3, 2012 at 10:15 pm |

Primal 4 Life

If you really think that Peteyroo, then you should really leave this land. If not, you are noting but a hypocrite, period.

July 3, 2012 at 11:15 pm |

ONTHunter

So Native Americans are entitled to hunt, but the rest of the human race should do away with it?? Humans are humans. We are hunter/gatherers by nature. Only in recent history have we evolved to the commercialization of produce. People would grow what they needed for the year, they would hunt what they needed for the year....Its who we are as human beings. If you choose to succumb to the commercialization and privatization of food products go right ahead, I will still be in the bush doing what I love. I love to be one with nature, I love the thrill of the hunt, and I love the taste of wild meat. I love knowing, as I look at my plate, that I killed that animal, cleaned it, butchered it, and cooked it for my family's consumption. The fiddleheads next to the steak were hand picked by me, the blueberry sauce for the meat was made from fresh blueberries picked by me in the wild. That is what hunting is all about. Its not just about the kill.

July 3, 2012 at 10:16 pm |

Tom

Native American's have no more relationship with nature than anyone else does.

Humans impact their surroundings and always have to fit what they want. Native Americans are no different. Oh, BTW, PETA is a terrorist organization.

July 3, 2012 at 10:40 pm |

Peteyroo

Tums, wrong twice.

July 3, 2012 at 11:30 pm |

countrygirl

You respect what you eat when you have to do the dirty work yourself. Thought two, we should eat invasive species; wild pigs, Asian Shrimp and asian carp. There are millions of wild pigs destroying the US and Asian shrimp are eating the native gulf shrimp. Asian Carp were brought here as a food source, I know they don't sound or look appealing but carp handled well is decent.

July 3, 2012 at 8:06 pm |

Primal 4 Life

Agreed! Unfortunately for me, I live in one of the few areas where there are no wild boar at all. If they were anywhere near me I'd have one in the freezer every year. There isn't much better than providing for yourself from the plains to the plate. I love knowing that I was involved in every aspect of my meal.

The difference between myself and vegans/vegetarians, I would never even consider forcing them to join me. They, on the other hand, have no trouble at all trying to force us to join them. They have no concept of what freedom means at all.

July 3, 2012 at 10:09 pm |

Peteyroo

Punked 4 Life, no one is forcing you to do anything. If you can live with the immorality of murdering animals you don't need to survive, be my guest. Just don't claim it's right or necessary.

July 3, 2012 at 10:17 pm |

Primal 4 Life

Ah but it is right, and it is necessary. That fact that you think otherwise, is 100% irrelevant.

There is only ONE way to know for sure what you consume is safe. That way is if you do the harvesting yourself.

Sorry but you are the one who is wrong. It's OK though, it's clear you like being wrong.

July 3, 2012 at 11:44 pm |

Peteyroo

Punked 4 Life, are you willing to take on a grizzly bear with no weapons other than you hands and your wits?

July 3, 2012 at 11:54 pm |

Mark

Thanks for a well written article. As a hunter, I feel a connection to nature that I never do when merely observing from the sidelines, as you stated so eloquently. I love being afield with my english setter, and upland game birds like pheasants, grouse, chukars, quail, etc. are flat out delicious!! Much, much better than anything I can buy in a grocery store. I enjoy the whole experience of hunting and make no apologies for it. Humans have always been hunters and active participants in nature, and always will be. There's nothing barbaric about that. It is one of the most supremely honest pursuits in life.

July 3, 2012 at 7:47 pm |

George

I agree about hunting. Responsible hunters hunt only what they need and it is great food. I can't understand hunting for sport. There is nothing sporting in hunting an animal that has no defense against a high powered rifle with a scope which many hunters use. A sport would be hunting big bear with a single shot musket.

July 3, 2012 at 8:17 pm |

Peteyroo

Hunters are murderers! Are you OK with that? I suspect so. Don't pretend that you are doing good.

July 3, 2012 at 9:34 pm |

Primal 4 Life

You are nothing but a moron, period. There is simply no other way to describe your patchiness.

July 3, 2012 at 9:56 pm |

Peteyroo

Punked by Lifers, your head is up your backside, my friend. When you are sitting in a bar getting loaded with your buddies, do you talk about how you plan to kill those who have no power to stop you? I suggest hunters hunt each other. It would be fair. You are too cowardly to do that.

July 3, 2012 at 10:21 pm |

hunters are anti-wildlife terrorists

You're a worthless cowardly filth who kills wildlife with his high powered rifle while dressed in camo. You love killing animals don't ya you anti-wildlife freak?

July 3, 2012 at 10:30 pm |

hunters are anti-wildlife terrorists

A harvest on hunters? A lot of people would support that. The cowards who kill wildlife love shooting at targets that can't shoot back.

July 3, 2012 at 10:31 pm |

Primal 4 Life

You know what, I will agree to that, so long as you participate. I will even give you a far better rifle than I use. It would bring me great pleasure to remove your 100% flawed DNA from the gene pool. As an expert Marine sharpshooter,I won't even be a little bit worried. You're welcome for the freedom btw.

What, you don't want to do that? Big surprise cowards. At least you know that you would be owned.

July 3, 2012 at 11:22 pm |

Peteyroo

Punked 4 Life, sounds good to me, my cowardly friend. One rifle (open sights), one pistol, and one knife. Scopes are too cowardly. You can bring your grandmother to read the map (topographical) and carry your ammo. We'll start 25 miles apart somewhere in Big Bend Nat'l Park. We can only have what we carry, except of course whatever your grandmother can carry for you. To give you any semblence of a chance, I'll wear a fluorescent orange jumpsuit and you can wear desert camo–just to even the playing field a bit. Also you can wear a bulletproof vest and I won't. You can have night-vision goggles as well (granny, too). I won't need them. Let's see what else. Oh, I'll go barefoot while you wear boots. That should make it even. Bon chance!

July 3, 2012 at 11:47 pm |

Primal 4 Life

LMAO bring it peon. you have no chance. Please make sure your last will and testament is in order, you will need it.

You will never even see me.

July 4, 2012 at 12:54 am |

Peteyroo

Punked 4 Life, I won't see you because you'll be cowering behind your grandmother. I'll make it even more fair. You can have a quad-four (or whatever they're called). That would be noisy and I'd spot you, or should I say hear you, immediately. No, I think a golf cart would be better. They're quiet, but where would you charge it? I'm just trying to level the playing field. I could blow a whistle every few minutes, so you could hear me. I could carry a squealing pig under one arm, or maybe tie one arm behind my back. There's just no way to give you a fair chance.

July 4, 2012 at 1:25 am |

hunters are anti-wildlife terrorists

primal 4 life is a coward who enjoys shooting at things that can't shoot back. You are a worthless and spineless coward.

July 4, 2012 at 8:34 am |

scott

Imagine PETA hunting hunters....boy that would be fun.....Peta would be gone from the planet in a month...maybe less

July 4, 2012 at 9:21 am |

Tom

Don't be silly PettyPetey, you can't "murder" an animal. And the Disney Cartoon watching PETA Terrorists are some of the dumbest people on the face of the Earth.

July 3, 2012 at 10:46 pm |

Peteyroo

Tums, explain why not, please.

July 3, 2012 at 11:48 pm |

Peteyroo

Whoops, I misspelled avocado. The devil is in the green details.

July 3, 2012 at 11:56 pm |

advocatusdiaboli

Is a Bobcat a murderer then? A Cougar? A hawk? An Eagle? A snake? Only an infantile mind sees things is such absolutes while ignoring the numerous facts to the contrary. Grow up and put away childish beliefs.

July 3, 2012 at 11:04 pm |

Peteyroo

AvacadoDiablo, only humans can murder.

July 3, 2012 at 11:50 pm |

ONTHunter

Murder is the killing of a person, by a person.

That is why abortion is not illegal, because the fetus is not considered a human life yet.

How many animals were killed when they tore down the forest to build that tofu factory??

July 4, 2012 at 12:45 am |

Peteyroo

ONTpunter, murder is a human killing anything alive in an unfair fight.

July 4, 2012 at 1:28 am |

ONTHunter

@Peteyroo...can you show me that legal reference please? Oh, thats right, the law states that murder is a human killing a human.

July 4, 2012 at 8:19 am |

Vern Sawyer

If hunting is murder then I'm ok with murder.

July 4, 2012 at 8:28 am |

jonwilson33

What's your take on hunting cowards with high powered rifles who love killing things that can't shoot back?

July 4, 2012 at 11:02 am |

greg

hunting is murder. tasty, tasty murder.

July 4, 2012 at 4:36 pm |

Vern Sawyer

I've decided to start hunting thanks to the postings of ease and peteyroo.

July 4, 2012 at 8:33 am |

David1958

Who made you God?

July 4, 2012 at 7:24 pm |

ease

I guess it's okay to be a cannibal. Humans are their choice of food. Who am I to tell them their way of life is wrong. Guess all life is up for grabs.

July 3, 2012 at 7:22 pm |

lena

as long as they don't eat you, why bother..... Who cares about others. It seems that you are among those who do not reflect much upon what they say. I'm sure you wouldn't be such a hero if you were the victim. There are many tyrants throughout the history who begged for forgiveness when their life was in danger.

July 3, 2012 at 8:55 pm |

ease

You do know I was being sarcastic. Don't understand your comment.

Back to sarcasm.

There are many cannibals out there who are looking to feast on anyone. Maybe the hunter becomes the hunted. At least it's a level playing field. Now you can call it a sport;)

July 4, 2012 at 12:24 am |

ease

Or if you're real brave, you would kill the animal with your bare hands. Real courageous killing defenseless animals. Not much of a sport.

July 3, 2012 at 7:15 pm |

ease

Sorry that was supposed to be a reply.

July 3, 2012 at 7:16 pm |

Larry

Have you heard of Ted Nugent. Many have done it, but a quick and merciful method is best.

July 3, 2012 at 8:16 pm |

Peteyroo

Ted Nugent is a low-life rat-b*st*rd.

July 3, 2012 at 9:35 pm |

Tom

Emotionally stunted terrorist. PettyPetey, you are in need or a Thorazine drip.

July 3, 2012 at 10:48 pm |

Peteyroo

Tums, I'm in need of a decaf drip roast 20oz tumbler of coffee.

July 4, 2012 at 12:01 am |

ONTHunter

The only thing going drip right now is the blood from my half cooked deer steak smothered in montreal steak spice. mmmmmmm mmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

July 4, 2012 at 6:00 pm |

Vern Sawyer

You say that sarcastically, but no joke, hunting and killing an animal unarmed would be totally awesome. Boxing a deer to death or snapping a bear's neck would both make for great hunting stories.

July 4, 2012 at 8:21 am |

JGK

Great article. Like was stated most birdwatchers, hikers, and bikers don't realize the land they use to pursue their hobbies was probably paid for by hunters. In my home state of PA gamelands are bought using only money earned from selling hunting licenses.. But sadly most dont realize this

July 3, 2012 at 7:00 pm |

Peteyroo

We do realize the blood money from hunters is used for conservation and other worthy efforts. We prefer that the money come from elsewhere.

July 3, 2012 at 9:37 pm |

Vern Sawyer

I'm gonna buy an animal and kill it just to make you unhappy.

July 4, 2012 at 8:25 am |

Jack

"I do not see why man should not be just as cruel as nature." – ADOLF HITLER (Vegetarian)

July 3, 2012 at 6:54 pm |

Thinking things through

yeah he was dumb as rocks when it came to ethics but I will NOT stoop to the level of including that cretin in my thoughts. Sorry. Omnivores can stand proud without sludging down to that one.

July 3, 2012 at 7:00 pm |

ease

Hitler was NOT a vegetarian. That's a myth.

July 3, 2012 at 7:12 pm |

advocatusdiaboli

That is a lie and a falls quote. Lying is unethical, not hunting, but anti-hunters are liars.

July 3, 2012 at 11:05 pm |

ease

Go ahead and drink the cool aid.

July 4, 2012 at 12:27 am |

POD

Well if you really want to be 'ethical' you should only hunt with a spear or bow and arrow that way your skill set is almost equal to that of your prey. If you are just sitting up in a deer blind or whatever you're just 'killin' you're not 'huntin'

July 3, 2012 at 6:46 pm |

Jake

Um, Human's advantage is intelligence and the ability to work in groups to develop things like weapons. Since they all evolved on the same planet, its not really an unfair advantage. Also an interesting fact is that in pure biomass bacteria make humans look insignificant.

July 3, 2012 at 7:09 pm |

Ms Bery

So Jake, it was okay when some nations who had guns landed on other countries and shot/massacred the people of those lands because they did not have guns.... same logic? And intelligence means that humans have the capability to make an ethical and humane choice on the way they act, including the choice to kill or not to kill. Its called evolving after learning that an act is not desirable or fine....

July 3, 2012 at 8:22 pm |

Guest

So Ms Berry, now that humanity has you here to look back and decide for us what's right and wrong, I guess we can all just turn off our own free will and default to you. How wonderful.

On second thought, I think I'll continue to make up my own mind and leave you alone up on your high horse.

July 3, 2012 at 9:16 pm |

ease

Or if you're real brave, you would kill the animal with your bare hands. Real courageous killing defenseless animals. Not much of a sport is it.

July 3, 2012 at 7:17 pm |

Vern Sawyer

Who cares about sport? Sometimes you just feel like eating meat, and the deer in your back yard happens to be closer than the grocery store. No different from picking an apple off a tree.

July 4, 2012 at 8:23 am |

truthordare7

I don't know how it works. Lets say for example all the population of the meat eaters decided to adopt your point of view and go hunt for their meat, would there be enough game to feed them all? Now, instead of 12.5 million hunters, you suddenly have 150 or 200 million hunters looking for their share of the meat. Can the wilderness support such a vast number? Just curious.

July 3, 2012 at 7:24 pm |

ease

We humans are destroying everything. Human overpopulation, terrible human activities, encroachment on natural lands. Nature is more important in that without it, we would not exist. Without humans, nature would grow and flourish.

We need to curb our arrogance.

Humans are truly the most dangerous and dumbest animals on the planet.

July 3, 2012 at 7:34 pm |

Peteyroo

D'accord!

July 4, 2012 at 12:02 am |

xMoonWitchx

I think your mindset is fabulous and I wish it would take root in more in the mainstream. This is the ultimate conclusion that we all must come to. It's no longer feasible to be living like this and more needs to be done to educate the masses about the threat of the weight of our own population.
I want to point out that the Earth has no concern for the success or failure of any living species and it will almost never be void of life within the next 5 billion years no matter what climate "catastrophes" occur. Your stay here is pointless, meaningless and without ultimate conclusion. There is no purpose, product or rational reason for your existence other than a collection of clever mutations. Go ahead and have your nuclear war, in fact. The Earth will live on and so will countless species to take your place. Continue this unsustainable population growth and continue your exploration into the realm of disease and gene manipulation. Continue to cling to myth, superstition and faith and I promise you, you will receive the culling this species so desperately needs.

...Oh. Ain't going to be pretty, by the way. Hold steadfast to your resolve, you're going to need it.

Viva Nepal!

July 4, 2012 at 8:09 am |

Vern Sawyer

Humans are the only animals that make halfway decent conversationalists.

July 4, 2012 at 8:24 am |

Guest

Absolutely not. If most Americans had to directly feed themselves in this manner, a good 80-90% of you would starve. Some within a week.

However, ethical hunters do more conservation work than any of the people commenting here telling us all what we should eat do. Go talk to someone from your local Elk's Lodge and see how much work they put in to maintain the herds they hunt. They won't even bother with telling you what their license fees paid for, they'll tell you about the work they did with their own hands.

July 3, 2012 at 9:20 pm |

advocatusdiaboli

SO what, most people don't want to hunt and that is their choice.

July 3, 2012 at 11:07 pm |

Guest

So don't, that's fine. It's not required in modern society. But the original comment asked if the environment could support all of us hunting and it obviously couldn't.

It's the anti-hunting folks that are trying to force their agenda on hunters, not the other way around.

July 4, 2012 at 4:13 am |

scott

yet ANTIS say Archery hunting is the most cruel form of hunting...which is it ?

July 4, 2012 at 9:25 am |

Karen

Seems to me animals eating each other is the cruelest way of hunting/killing. Wolves ripping a partially-born elk calf out of its dam and tearing it apart, or bringing down a derr etc and ripping out the rear end and guts first while the animal is still alive. A well-placed arrow or bullet is much more quick and merciful.