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Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

Originally Posted by Palandri

You really have to look at the GNP statistics. Such as, Britian spends 8% of their GNP on National Healthcare and they cover everyone. We spend twice that, like 15% of our GNP on Private Healthcare and don't cover everyone.

The "for profit" Private Healthcare model is simply the wrong model for Healthcare. I can see from your statement that you think any government ran agency is inefficient, well, the statistics show differently.

Please to show "statistics" where gubberment is more efficient than the private industry. I'd be really inter4ested to see the breakdown in those numberz.

"The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."

Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

Originally Posted by SteveW

And the "quality" of said health care in the UK is on par with that of the US?

Hint: I have close friends in the US HC industry.

^^^ The % of GNP example fails on so many levels... quality and availability being just a few. But let's go with that. Lets say a country of 40 million decides to only pay one doctor with one office $100K a year to supply health care for the entire country. The % of GNP spent would be miniscule and everyone is covered. According to the "logic" being employed above... it's all good cuz everyone is covered and the %of GNP is soooo low right?

"The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."

Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

Originally Posted by AMDScooter

^^^ The % of GNP example fails on so many levels... quality and availability being just a few. But let's go with that. Lets say a country of 40 million decides to only pay one doctor with one office $100K a year to supply health care for the entire country. The % of GNP spent would be miniscule and everyone is covered. According to the "logic" being employed above... it's all good cuz everyone is covered and the %of GNP is soooo low right?

Cutting 500 billion in medicare benefits isn't cutting waste it's moving the waste, fraud and abuse to Obamacare. Before you can cut waste you must first determine where the waste is. The major factor will be cuts in care, they're already happening. Obambi's death panel is already at work...

Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

Looking like this might be more than just speculation. Its your health care thread Scoot and I don't want to derail it....if you think this discussion should continue in Economics I can move it over there:

Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

Originally Posted by BlackDragon24

Looking like this might be more than just speculation. Its your health care thread Scoot and I don't want to derail it....if you think this discussion should continue in Economics I can move it over there:

No issues for me at all. It's all about the $$$ anyway. Be interesting to "see whats in it".... before it gets passed that is.

"The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."

Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

Originally Posted by AMDScooter

^^^ The % of GNP example fails on so many levels... quality and availability being just a few. But let's go with that. Lets say a country of 40 million decides to only pay one doctor with one office $100K a year to supply health care for the entire country. The % of GNP spent would be miniscule and everyone is covered. According to the "logic" being employed above... it's all good cuz everyone is covered and the %of GNP is soooo low right?

However if you still have terrible healthcare ratings (sure a lot of those ratings are nebulous in how they get their results at the best of time... but yeah... Infant mortality rates while being just one factor are pretty concrete) even after overspending on your GNP then you have a problem.

The problem is a properly conceived healthcare system (and to a greater extent, education system) helps all members in a country. It's an investment.

It's -- basically game theory. You still need to interact with other people... and if their life sucks they'll make your life suck. If they have opportunities that they capitalize on, they'll provide opportunities to others.

Having a properly conceived healthcare (and education) system is a struggle -- yes. So fight for it.

Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

Originally Posted by Phopojijo

However if you still have terrible healthcare ratings (sure a lot of those ratings are nebulous in how they get their results at the best of time... but yeah... Infant mortality rates while being just one factor are pretty concrete) even after overspending on your GNP then you have a problem.

You just mooted your own point. % of GNP is simply an absurd way to try to make a case.. period.

Tort reform needs to be addressed. Or are you trying to say it's not a significant factor in the overall HC cost?

Originally Posted by Phopojijo

The problem is a properly conceived healthcare system (and to a greater extent, education system) helps all members in a country. It's an investment.

Growing gubberment is not an "investment".. it's a roadmap to fiscal suicide.

Originally Posted by Phopojijo

It's -- basically game theory. You still need to interact with other people... and if their life sucks they'll make your life suck. If they have opportunities that they capitalize on, they'll provide opportunities to others.

So let's spread the wealth.. socialism 101.

Originally Posted by Phopojijo

Having a properly conceived healthcare (and education) system is a struggle -- yes. So fight for it.

That's what we're currently about. REPEAL!

"The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."

Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

1. Privatizing and voucherizing Medicare does nothing whatsoever to control costs. We’ve seen that from the sorry history of Medicare Advantage. I’m sure that the Republicans will claim savings — but those savings will come entirely from limiting the vouchers to below the rate of rise in health care costs; in effect, they will come from denying medical care to those who can’t afford to top up their premiums.

Oh, and for all those older Americans who voted GOP last year because those nasty Democrats were going to cut Medicare, I have just one word: suckers!

2. E.J. Dionne is right: This will be Obama’s defining moment. Will he stand up for the principle that society takes care of those in need? Or will he cave in? I wish I had confidence in the answer.

I think I'm gonna puke if I see "This is Obama's defining moment" again. Every moment is a defining moment hen you are president, especially nowadays. And if he hasn't "defined" himself yet in his ability to cave to republicans on pretty much every issue out there, then this moment will just fit the narrative, not be "defining."

"The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."

Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

I think I'm gonna puke if I see "This is Obama's defining moment" again. Every moment is a defining moment hen you are president, especially nowadays. And if he hasn't "defined" himself yet in his ability to cave to republicans on pretty much every issue out there, then this moment will just fit the narrative, not be "defining."

Without commenting too much as I've not read what the GOP is planning personally yet.

Let me take a second to attack the source. Would you let that twit Krugman run your personal finances? I mean comon.. the same poolitzer winner that gets spanked by satire sites??

"The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."