The White House cuts the public option loose in a trial balloon in Politico:

Obama is considering detailing his health-care demands in a major speech as soon as next week, when Congress returns from the August recess. And although House leaders have said their members will demand the inclusion of a public insurance option, Obama has no plans to insist on it himself, the officials said.

Of course he’s not going to include a public option — as DC’s beltway class well knows, it’s been gone for a long time. Those who deluded themselves into thinking he would veto a bill that didn’t have one were — well, deluded. Rahm and the Baucus Caucus dealt the public option away months ago in order to keep stakeholders at the negotiating tables, and from filling the coffers of Republicans in 2010.

The Blue Dogs (whose votes have been whipped by the White House who told them there will be no public plan) will make the House bill conform to whatever comes out of the Senate.

The White House is making the calculation that the hit they suffer when they drop the public plan is only with the "far left," that they can survive that and actually use it to their advantage by triangulating against "the blogs."

It’s just a guess, but when average Americans understand that "health care reform" means they will be forced to pay Blue Cross more money than they do now for worse insurance or be fined 2.5% of their income, I have a feeling it’s not just going to be a couple of radical lefties who are pissed off about what amounts to an increase in middle class taxes. Unfortunately, since all the liberal interest groups ceded the bank bailout debate to the teabaggers and there was no pushback against the White House’s decision to coddle AIG, the right owns that particular real estate and will be well poised to make the most of it.

For us, the question becomes: what are we going to do? How much do we care, how hard are we going to push Democrats in the House, elected by solid Democratic majorities, to stand up to this railroading and defend the public option?

There are 55 members in D+10 districts who have not said that they will vote against any bill that does not have a strong public option. For me, sitting by and watching them help to bailout PhRMA and the insurance industry on the backs of the middle class, just when people are struggling to find decent jobs in the midst of a recession, is not an option.

We’ll be looking into the campaign finance histories of these members, as well as their voting records, to try and ascertain if there are reasons they are not signing on that the public should know about.

I look forward to the evidence against the 55 cowards. I sure hope we can recruit primary opponents in those districts. In the meantime, we civil liberties extremists have other reasons to be disappointed in Obama.

Can we start to push for campaign finance reform yet? Because the inability to do the public’s will in the matter of health care insurance reform is a symptom of the fact that Congresspeople are being routinely bribed. And a vote for a successful campaign finance reform bill is about the only vote our representatives can make without fear of retribution.

I don’t like Obama and I never have liked his policies very much, but I have to tip my hat to him. If this report is true, it demonstrates to me that he is a real leader who listens.

It may even be the beginning of actual, real solid support for him and not just “adoration” type support.

I know many on the left would rather that Republicans just disappear and “let’s just do it our way.”

As a Republican, I don’t have a similar view of the Democrats. I don’t want things to be all my way. History has shown that every time a group moves in only one direction, the results are very bad. Same in business, when the head guy does it his way, he many times overlooks pitfalls that other around him see.

A bill that brings together the differenct views and uses the best of each would be more successful in the long run.

Personally, I even think that if good, strong tort reform were included in a bill, you might get Republicans to go along with a public option.

The reconciliation idea is unwise and will easily come back and haunt you one day if used. The political winds always change. After Carter came in with big majories–even bigger than Dem majorities today, Reagan came in 4 years later and the Senate was Republican.

When that day comes again, and Republicans run the Senate, you will not want them using the newly established as “ok to use if the other side won’t agree with you” idea of reconciliation. They will certainly “reconcile” ideas you don’t like. Including dropping a public option if one had been enacted on such a partisan basis.

This is it fellow citizens, if what Sister Jane says is true and Obama cuts the public option loose then we dump Obama, blow up the Democratic Party and prepare to fight in the streets. We, the majority of people in the country, are left with no options because capitulation on the public option means the restoration of fascist rule in the next election and the collapse of the economy.

I am NOT convinced that Obama will be so stupid but if he is I am ready to go balls out…and there must be folks in the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party who are ready to lead a revolt.

KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, THE WAR HAS LANDED IN YOUR FRONT YARD!!

Libs NEED to draw their line in the sand just like the 60 Congressional Reps. did with Nancy Pelosi, and the AFL-CIO did with the public option and non supportive Dems. Libs need to draw their line in the sand, move their troops closer to the front line, make viable threats, and back it up with big time supporter donations. We’re talking backbone here. Anybody with me? What is the Left’s strategy? The Obama administration must majorly regret a decision with no PO. Who’s gonna make them do that? The Left needs to make it very clear no PO, no support. Then they need to line up THEIR 2012 candidate and start dissing everything this administration does from now on starting with Afghanistan!

The thought that if I can no longer afford the premiums from my employer health care and do not carry a policy because it is financially out of reach and thus, will result in a tax penalty, is taxation without representation.

The thought that small businesses will be financially penalized as well, will destroy our economy.

A “reform” bill that has no public option, that requires all citizens to pay a private insurance company however much they want is a non-starter. When people understand that this is how it’s going to work, Obama and the Democrats will be swept out of office in 2012.

I have done the same without a public option there is no change. And Remember Obama said he wouldn’t sign a bill without it. Now is a test of his word. The Dem’s Won and they can’t deliver Nader gets my vote next time

If you think that consolidation of corporate fascism with the ascendence of eliminationists in the Republican Party will not lead to violence,indeed has not already led to violence, then I will meet you in the camps but not before I kick some fascist ass on the way.

The Velvet Revolution (Czech: sametová revoluce) or Gentle Revolution (Slovak: nežná revolúcia) (November 16 – December 29, 1989) was a non-violent revolution in Czechoslovakia that saw the overthrow of the Communist government.[1] It is seen as one of the most important of the Revolutions of 1989.

We’re covered with smoke and ashes right now. It’s crazy making, seeing all the different plumes of smoke, and they move around, not knowing where the fire is going. We’re near enough that if the wind picks up or changes, we could be evacuated. Again. I don’t know which is suffering worse, my nerves or my sinuses.

Jane, now I confused. If it’s a done deal, why exactly are we continuing to put pressure on House progressives?

For the record, I don’t think it’s a done deal, given the slippage in Democratic base support–Rahm can read polls, can’t he?–and I think we are beginning to win on this one and need to press our advantage and not go slack just because there is, dare I say it, some hope.

If it really is a trail balloon, and given it’s Politico I have big questions about who is raising this balloon, then let’s slap it down like we did other trial balloons by increasing the pressure on Congress.

Just don’t start giving us mixed messages. We keep fighting exactly and precisely because it is not a done deal even if it seems so from reports from the White House and our own suspicions of being sold out.

They’re under intense pressure to drop it — especially from the big health-care industry entities that normally give 100% of their dough to the GOP. (That’s why Rahm and Obama cut the deal with the drug companies.)

Pressure…. Schmessure. its just an excuse! The grassroots is what got him elected. The People! NOT THE INSURANCE COMPANIES! Excuse my excitement. I can’t stand Presidents who forget who got them elected.

When the Congress and White House are not doing the bidding of over 50% of doctors and over 50% of citizens to have Medicare for All even discussed. To have them give us a bogus public option that covers maybe 10 million and doesn’t even start until after two elections in 2013. To have them force the poor Wal Mart minimum wage employees off a good Medicaid program and on to a crap Wal Mart plan. To have the states pick up more and more expense. To have them not do our bidding and only do the CEOs’ bidding….is called what?
Nice wording is that we do not have a functioning democracy. Bad word is fascism.
So what do we do? I’m looking for the good feudal lord and opposed to the bad one. In Montana, that is Brian Schweitzer who said he would fight to have Montanans have something like Canada has in terms of health care. He said at our convention that he’d rather talk about energy, but we have to solve health care first. Keep the Kucinich amendment in and take it to the states. I’ll write more about our convention which was poorly attended with the only highlight being Brian. I saw a dying party. So while we are getting another People’s Party up and running, we will have to revert to a kind of “Gangs of New York” kind of self government. Why do you think the mafia started? If I’m going to pay for protection, I’d rather pay the mob than the criminals in D.C.

Ah, but the insurance companies’ money helped pay for this. See what Bill Moyers has to say about the role of corporate money in DC – and the lobbying culture that didn’t exist three decades ago, at least nowhere to the extent it does now.

Gosh, I love a poet with a flamethrower. The winds shift. The smoke obscures. And, the media can’t tell me anything.
One thing these fires always remind me is that everything in the house can be replaced. It’s all transitory.

They want to see what they can get away with — as if it wasn’t clear enough from Richard Trumka’s comments earlier this week that they’re not going to be allowed to get away with this. If we let this trial balloon float by unchallenged, they’ll figure we don’t care if we’re screwed yet again.

Hillary “delivered” in 1993-94 and she sold out to the insurance lobby in order to get the nomination in 2008…how’d THAT work out??!! Jesus H. KEEErist on a God damned crutch, what the hell have YOU been smokin??!! Sec. Hillary Clinton is a fuckin’ Goldwater Republican…for Christ’s sake wake up!!

I lived in Tarzana for a while, and there was a vacant lot next door, which always seemed strange. When I asked about it, I found out that there had been a house there, but the rains had caused it to slide away. I always imagined a conversation between husband and wife that went like this:

There have been peaceful revolutions i.e Iran losing the Shah and the Phillipines losing Marcos. We can have one here if we play our cards right. I posted a diary called “Representative Democracy no longer works” or something like that. It appeared for an instant. I have no idea where it is or how to link to it.

Campaign finance reform is not the answer. We need to clean house! So many politicians in both parties are too entrenched, too corrupt, they have been in DC TOO LONG. A clean sweep and a smaller government is the answer.

From Obama modis oprandi i.e., fisa, wire tap, imperial presidency, he could care less about single payer or public option. Since he came to the Senate, has he ever been so disjointed and inarticulate as on health care? He may have some grand scheme in mind, just not health care reform.

The only way to push is as Janes doing, through pressure on House weasels.

Ah. After the last fires, I asked the fire department what the chances were for mudslides during the winter. They told me not to worry, there’s only about 4 – 6 inches of top soil, then all rock on the hills above us. So, that’s good. But, on the other hand, that’s why there’s only scrub growing up there and not lots of big green trees…but, on the other hand, that would be more fuel. It goes on and on and round and round.

Is this real or not? If it isn’t, then where is the push back from the White House? Remember how quickly Obama responded to any attack or misinformation when he was campaigning for the Presidency? If Obama strongly backs a robust public option he has the best pulpit in the country to say so.

With Obama it is important to note what he doesn’t say as well as what he does. And more importantly than either, what he does.

I will wait to see what Obama does and says this next week before BELIEVING Politico. I think it’s a ruse meant to discourage us more than we already are. When the Pres speaks…people listen and react. It may be Revolution time…or healthcare for all Americans. I’m fighting for that FOREVER.

Ultimately, Hirono said she was a progressive who firmly believes in the public option, but that she was also someone who counted votes and that the White House would be pressuring them to make a deal.

She made that comment a month ago. The underlying assumption is that there will be no public option in the final bill, and the White House will be twisting people’s arms to vote for it:

Throwing all Americans into forced pay to for profit insurers an insult.

Not controlling costs and postponing what must take place to displace the current for profit/employer based haphazard American healthcare regime is the worst of money politics,failed leadership and worthy of full contempt.

The Democratic Party has become as Paul Krugman wrote in recent days just the other money politics twin puppet of the Republican puppet in American gross abusive capitalism and corporatism money politics corruption.

Failure to move towards universal single payer again here in 2009 should condemn the Democrats to being voted out in 2010 and 2012 and let the damn GOPers just fully destroy and wreck the nation — a overdue revolution to follow where both parties get the boot and are banished for venal political conduct.

Barack Obama? Just another liar and money politics player. He throws over 70% of Americans to the lions for the corporatists and a debased by money politics corrupted WashingtonDC he should be voted out in 2012.

After what Wall St. and Big American Banks walked away with this Obama WH is on the line as is — screwing the common American again is political homicide of the first degree.

I hope the AFL-CIO stands firm with us. From what I have seen of Trumka, he doesn’t seem like the kind of guy to back down.

But there is the issue of their Employee Free Choice Act (EFCA), and if the vote on EFCA is before the health care reform vote, what will happen? That’s my only concern with the AFL-CIO.

I am still having a hard time getting my mind around the fact that Pres. Obama would do this. But the Sista Soujahing has already begun — that much is clear. It’s hard to watch so-called progressives throwing other progressives under the bus, all for the sake of being part of a continued cheerleading movement.

Nonetheless, they wouldn’t be fighting so hard if what we’re doing wasn’t effective. The progressives in the House are still the key. No amount of bullying will change my position on this. The public option is the line in the sand.

If that does not work its ”clear” (i seen it on da TV) that yelling, waving guns, and making threats (in minority, imagine such a thing in the majority) works and thus is acceptable.

Oh, and if people are waving guns over nothing the real message is to stand down on this, and on all things in the future.

Do we have any community organizers here, or somewhere in power? Seems like the work is going to be even harder. Make Obama do it – right now we are not making him do anything.

Taiabbi (spelling: rolling stone) had a better few ideas that in his opinion not paying tax, or consumers sinking a bank or insurance provider (surgical boycott) or some show of capital power by labor is the only thing that will work – that marches clearly do not (marchers arew beaten and abused and not reported on)

If it’s a done deal, why exactly are we continuing to put pressure on House progressives

the House Progressives were the only backstop we had in the face of what Jane is saying. you and I both could have safely predicted the course of events if there had been no Whip Action – (yeah, I’m looking at you MoveOn and HCAN)

I feel confident in saying Rahm expected the same ‘ol same ‘ol from Labor as well

The thing is, yellowsnapdragon, Rahm Emanuel serves the president. He would not have come to this conclusion all on his own. He’s a useful scapegoat, but he does the president’s bidding. He’s the bulldog who does the dirty work that the president can’t do in public.

They want to see what they can get away with — as if it wasn’t clear enough from Richard Trumka’s comments earlier this week that they’re not going to be allowed to get away with this. If we let this trial balloon float by unchallenged, they’ll figure we don’t care if we’re screwed yet again.

i completely agree with this. all trial balloons, hell even hints of trial balloons, need immediate response and are best stomped on hard. depending on obama or in fact any pol in dc to do our fighting for us is imo a sucker’s game.

Some Republicans (maybe McCain & McConnell — it doesn’t matter) are saying we need to “start over” with health insurance reform. I agree. Since the main reason reform is losing support is that nobody except Jane understands it, we should go back to Square 1 & go with single-payer. Any idiot can understand “like Medicare for everybody.” Then they can fight over the exact way to fund it & let the teabaggers go crazy crazier. Eventually, at some time in the far distant future, the Congress could get it close to right.

The fear knob was turned up to scalding by the Insurance companies over the last several month…it has worked. Profits before coverage.

Obama sounds like he may be going for the half the loaf strategy

The MSM focused on the “half the loaf” strategy after Ted Kennedy passed. On every news channel they kept repeating that Kennedy had been sorry that he had not gone for “half the loaf” back in 71 and 93.

Does anyone know if folks have been protesting in front of Insurance Companies?

Is anyone at this point really surprised by what’s been happening under Obama’s leadership?

And that’s the first point that should be made and made as loudly as possible. This isn’t Obama being mislead by advisors he chose poorly. This IS Obama. Obama was bullshit from the get-go. His anti-war stance was obvious bullshit yet many on the “left” chose to make that the point of distinction over the other “Democrat” presidential candidates.

But beyond the current disaster that’s building over healthcare (reminiscent of Katrina approaching New Orleans) is the longer term disaster that will be the direct result of a corporate written “health care” bill. The concept that Republicans are against this bill no matter what is nonsense. It has all the qualities of the Medicare drug bill from just a few years ago, happily passed by the Republicans. (I remember the claimed $350 billion cost of that bill that some “moderate” Republicans objected to, yet voted with the “majority of the majority.”) The medicare drug bill is now part of the outrageous cost of “entitlement” programs. Add to that a much much higher cost for this new trillion dollar welfare program for and from multi-billion dollar mega corporations and the onslaught against “entitlement” programs in just a few years will be powerful enough to gut, if not remove them completely. And of course that includes Social Security.

It’s all there. It’s obvious. Exploding unmaintainable “entitlement” programs that are really gigantic corporate welfare schemes that will be the basis for the end of Social Security or its reduction to China produced dry cat food subsistence levels.

Obamanation.

Really. It’s not “What has Obama done for the left?” It’s “What has Obama done for America?”

If McCain were doing this Americans would at least recognize that Republicans are killing them. Now there’s no viable political choice. All the new young voters that would be Democrats for generations will be turned off. The real “Obama Generation.” Bitter angry cynics. Rightfully so.

“We’ll be looking into the campaign finance histories of these members, as well as their voting records, to try and ascertain if there are reasons they are not signing on that the public should know about.”

All the progressive bloggers need to get together on this one, and make the information as public as possible, as quickly as possible. Public humiliation of these whores does stand a chance, however remote.

As a stakeholder in the healthcare debate who lost my employee-based health insurance when my husband died this summer and whose COBRA will run out long before I qualify for Medicare, I expect healthcare reform that works to be accomplished now. Not next year, not next Congressional term. Not Obama’s second term.

Now. Public option is the compromise as others have said. Single payer, better.

I can only hope that Grassley and Enzi have neatly stepped into the trap of an Obama White House long strategy. The prospect that either the WH or the Democratic side of the aisle ever believed the “good faithers” were negotiating in sincere “bipartisanship” is just too discouraging to contemplate. Tell me they cannot be that stoopid.

You are wrong, IMO. Why bother to clean house if a corrupt financing system will elect a new government with the same pressure to raise money from corporatations. No, change campaign finance and then throw the bums out so that we can elect a government that represents the people.

“…but when average Americans understand [what] “health care reform” means…it’s not just going to be a couple of radical lefties who are pissed off…”

Then, what will average Americans do with their new found understanding? Complain? Complain where?

Left or Center, what all non-right-authoritarians need to understand is the built in advantage of the authoritarian right. Their natural instinct is lock step organizing. The most conspicuous place this plays out is in the media.

While the left tries to drain the swamp with measuring cups, the right does it by buying a 9000 horsepower dredge pump.

(hint: “buying a 9000 horsepower dredge pump” = media ownership)

Street events and marches on Washington are a waste of time. What does the right do? They do not march anywhere. They build media empires and show prime time footage of infiltrating town hall meetings, tea baggers and state secessionists, thereby leveraging what is actually a minority.

The only way U.S. is going to get a public option, (even though single payer is more effective and efficient) is if a few million people show up in D.C.

This is a very familiar scenario, don’t you people have memories? The government does this all of the time and until you/we get in their collective face, they will continue. All of the work and effort some people have put into getting Obama elected with a filibuster proof majority in the senate and a democratic majority in congress will have been proven futile. Nothing else will work. What victory can the liberals/progressives claim that improved Americans’ lives at the ballot? None. We have been subject to the longest gang rape this country has seen. I do have faith in Americans one day reaching their limit and doing what it takes to set things back on the course dictated by our constitution. (I looked, it doesn’t say anything about bailouts or corporate personhood in it.)

I for one am going to simply shake my head in disbelief and disgust at the naivete of those who express surprise when the health care “reform” package is finalized. Obama only adopted it as a platform for his campaign because it was a cornerstone of Hillary’s. His entire strategy was to lure the latino voters who will soon be betrayed also. Democrats were taken for granted all along. This will become clearer as more of his policies are unveiled, but I don’t know how much more you really need to see? (before you start, I have been a longtime Kucinich supporter despite the laughter of my more intelligent friends)

I didn’t used to have anarchist views, but government no longer abides by the constitution.

Every major change in America’s policies that has benefited the people, has been brought about through “civil disobedience.” That is the only “change you can believe in”. ;)

If the first amendment doesn’t work, the second one will.

For those who don’t know:

1st Amendment to the Constitution of the United States:

“ Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

2nd Amendment to the Constitution of the United States:

“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

I’m completely with you on that point. Choosing Rahm said everything that needed to be said about O. And Jane wrote all about Rahm’s efforts to keep money flowing to the D coffers, which is why I mention Rahm.

Thanks for the info. But from my vantage point out here in the boonies, it still looks like dueling kabuki and things really haven’t settled in yet.

What was solid an unassailable a month ago seems more fluid. And my sense is that the Baucus Caucus is not going to get what the Gang of Six cooked up out of committee.

All I know is that a bunch of Republicans of the more Bob Dole stripe around here have really been turned off by the teabaggers. And that the Executive Committee of the North Carolina Democratic Party is leaning on its Congressional delegation to support a strong public option.

Nonetheless, we’ll keep plugging against the tide (if that’s what it is).

Indie, 77% of the people in this country support the public option, so that means there are a lot of Independents in that number and probably Republicans too. The split between people who identify as Dems, Republicans and Independents in this country is nearly even. 77% means it’s a lot more than just the “radical left” (as the media tries to portray it).

One of the most staunch supporters of the public option in the Senate is Bernie Sanders, an Independent.

Based on those numbers, dropping the public option is going to cost the president and the Congress dearly. The president probably thinks he can convince everyone that what they are getting is good, or he will try to blame it on the Republicans, or the Dem Congress, when the real story is that he personally chose not to have a public option. I personally don’t think he’s going to be able to pull off a big lie like that. Like George Bush did in 2001, he’s throwing away the opportunity of a life time to do good things in this country.

Personally, I even think that if good, strong tort reform were included in a bill, you might get Republicans to go along with a public option.–cregan

Gee, two talking point quips in one sentence. One, the old tort reform canard in order to drag in that old dead horse about big mean evil ‘trial lawyers’ suing doctors. That’s the big uggabugga expense in the health insurance industry. Right?

Two, the lie that the Republicans have any intention at all on voting for anything that the Democrats offer about health insurance reform that doesn’t include windfall profits for the insurance industry. Public option cuts into that. So even with your phony tort reform Republicans won’t be allowed to vote for a bill with Public Option in it. Period.

Actually Clinton and Obama placed more emphasis on their healthcare plans in response to John Edwards for whom it was a major issue.

As for memories, I broke with Obama in July 2008. The tenor of posts at fdl have been in favor of the public option but there has always been a vocal group of commenters who have pushed other ideas. I don’t think you have commented here much so welcome but there has been a long ongoing debate here of which you seem to be unaware.

The number of Registered Republicans took a big hit last year. Most of ‘em are Independents now. Many are self-identified Libertarians (they learned to call themselves libertarians from Bill O’Reilly). Since there is no viable Libertarian Party, a Libertarian is a Republican or more likely a registered Independent.

Anyway, what’s interesting is that with the head count of Republicans at such a low point, more than 60 percent of Republicans support a public option.

These remaining Republican voters who have refused to abandon their Party are the wackiest of the wacky. Yet 60 percent support a public option.

We always knew that the R party is 100 percent corrupt. We also knew that half of the D Party is also corrupt. We knew there would be a lot of work to purge the D party of Blue Dogs and New Democrats and replace them with progressives.

“We’ll be looking into the campaign finance histories of these members, as well as their voting records, to try and ascertain if there are reasons they are not signing on that the public should know about.”

I was so angry that he was giving the eulogy at Ted Kennedy’s funeral. I told my wife wait until a week or two and we find out he is throwing us under the bus, how mad kennedy supporters will be. He is spineless and
this country can not afford this.

People. What is the strategy? Who are the ones in charge? I wanna talk to the grown ups! Once we draw our line in the sand with the PO how do we go about hammering the Obama Administration and who do we line up for 2012?

“I am very much looking forward to tonight’s town hall-style debate on health care in Allentown, Pennsylvania. Republican Senate candidate Pat Toomey accepted my offer for this evening’s discussion where I will explain the necessity of the health care reform bill I have worked to shape, including its strong public option to lower costs.

“If you are in the area, I invite you to join me at Muhlenberg College. We will be in Empie Theatre at Baker Center for the Arts, 2400 Chew Street, Allentown, PA 18104. Doors open at 5:15 p.m. Additionally there will be an overflow room, right next to the main auditorium.

If you cannot attend, please sign-up at http://www.JoeSestak.com to view a live stream of the town hall beginning at 6:30 p.m.”

You just know Arlen will bail on the public option if he can find cover from the WH.

in line with what Jane is saying about Sistah Souljah – if they fuck us, and I believe it is what they’re trying to do, Jane Hamsher is going to be singled out and pilloried by so called progressives when they are told the Half A Loaf bedtime story

now Jane is and has been a dozen moves ahead of most of us throughout this battle – that means she knows that this pillorying is a real possibility . . . and she kept at it anyway – for ALL of us.

now I pray there is some unexpected development that will deliver the minimum of the PO – but I want folks to appreciate not just what she has done, but what she has conciously risked

I’m not gonna be satisfied with just knowing what she’s doing for us. She’s doing it for herself too. I’m gonna be ticked because if shes 6 steps ahead of everybody on this then she should have a viable strategy and implementation STRATEGY for plan B.

The number of protesters and revolutionaries killed during the Iranian Revolution range between 3,000 to 60,000, depending on whether the estimates used are those of Islamic government or from historians. Ayatollah Khomeini stated that “60,000 men, women and children were martyred by the Shah’s regime,”[194] and this number appears in the introduction of the constitution of the Islamic Republic.[195]

Sure have not seen one minute of coverage by the MSM on these protesters. Maybe they should hold their protest in Iran to get 24 hours a day coverage.

Or too bad that Rabbi who was protesting the camping of Libya’s leader. That Rabbi ended up getting quite a bit of time on the “Ed Show” and I believe on Keith Olbermann’s. Too bad these health care professionals do not have connections like this guy or are not focused on such a critical issue as where Gadhafi is camping in the states

The debate should never have been allowed to veer away from single-payer/Medicare-for-all. The government offering just another suite of insurance plans to a limited portion of the population was not anywhere equivalent nor even adequate. The focus on the public option has been tantamount to misdirection.

Howard Dean addressed this at NN09 in response to a similar question asked. Dean said that the Dems are suffering from a severe “hangover” from the last eight years of abuses by the Bush administration.

That the Dems should have started by demonstrating how many in the American public actually support single payer..start there and then move the what the compromise really is….the Public Option

If, as I clearly do, accept Jane’s premise – providing a backstop in the House was the only viable strategy. and look what’s happened there – we have significantly strengthened the resolve of many of those critters – a distinct difference from the Supplemental fight a few months back.

I don’t for a second presume to speak for Jane and those working closely with her – but the actions taken to date were the only actions that could be taken.

Norskeflamethrower is not a troll.
Just because someone writes a comment that you don’t agree with, or if a commenter poses questions for the left, you don’t need to start throwing out that troll stuff.
Calm down and let people speak.

If you compare the US representative ratio to that of more progressive nations you realize that we are seriously under-represented. We would need on the order of 10 times the number of congresscritters to approximate the ratio the English parliament to its citizens.

This would dilute the power of the individual representative and provide for much more political diversity.

True, I don’t comment here much, but thats cuz I have two ears and one mouth and listen twice as much as I speak. :)

I am and have been a reader here for years.

Kinda condescending of you, don’t you think?

I have read the other opinions, and still firmly believe in a single payer system as the best way to proceed. Public option is viable, because it would force innovation and competition in available plans. If I had my ‘druthers’ it would be a single payer plan despite the decimation of the health insurance industry. A strong PUBLIC option available to everyone is the minimum acceptable position.

Is it going to happen? NO.

They have more money than all of us combined. I hope you understand that part.

As I said earlier, the only way we are going to regain control of the government is through (preferably) non-violent civil disobedience, however should that fail and the government continue to disregard the constitution and the will of the people, all options are and should be on the table. Everything else has been tried and you do know the definition of insanity don’t you? Doing the same thing and expecting different results?

We’ve had campaign finance reform. Result: Explosion in number of lobbyists on capitol hill.
We’ve raised money to compete with corporate interests. Result: Corporate written legislation.

We cannot win when the game is fixed. We have to make new rules. Its obvious to me, and by the tone of posts I have seen on articles regarding the health care debate, and other inaction by the Obama administration lets me know that I am growing less “fringist” by the day.

Change is going to come, it may not be the change many expected, but it is going to come. The tamest dog will bite you if you mistreat it long enough.

Your opinion of who adopted health care into their platform(s) for what reasons is as valid as mine. Hillary is the one who became infamous for her failed attempt in the 90’s and it is reasonable to assume that it would still be a part of her agenda. (p.s. I don’t want to get into any discussions about her “sellout” etc.. with the anti-clinton crowd either, as I said earlier, I am a fan of Kucinich.)

imo if jane or anyone else is attacked for “public option or die” it will be just as wrong as attacking people for “single payer or die”

gotta admire people who are thoughtfully willing to draw a line and stick to it (even if i don’t agree about the location of the line).

edit to add:

the actions taken to date were the only actions that could be taken.

i disagree, strongly, with the single payer precompromise in favor of an undefined public option. i’m no political strategist (haha), so maybe there’s something i’m still missing, but i don’t get that one.

did you see any coverage of this National day of action by the MSM. Was this the same day that they covered the Obama beer summit 24/7 or was that another rally in D.C. by health care professionals and citizens that the MSM ignored and did not cover

Hope that Sestak and Toomey draw a boundary for the “screamers” . That if you disrupt out you go and if you fight back off you go to the pokey Treat those folks just like you would any Code Pinker or anyone else who disrupts a meeting for the common good.

You can sit there with your sign but if you disrupt and make it difficult of impossible for a civil debate to take place…out you go.

Many of those “me firsters” in regard to health care trip over folks in the gutter or with out health care on their way to their churches on Sunday. The hypocrisy is alarming

Start raising money for ads with one message — without a strong public option, “health care reform” means that YOU WILL HAVE TO BUY INSURANCE THAT IS GOING TO COST EVEN MORE THAN IT DOES NOW!

You’ll have to pay to subsidize the profits of Aetna, Humana, Wellpoint, etc. And you’ll have to pay based on how sick everyone else is — that’s what “community rating”, and “no pre-existing condition exclusions” means.

The list includes the holdouts for single payer, and is a bit misleading. Why settle for the public option till there is absolutely no hope foe single payer? At least keep the progressive end of the window open. Lest we give up on reform entirely.

I appologize, I made a way over the top gross over generalization. Some people will revert back to their baser instincts. Lets not be naive nor preachy. Remember Mark Furman claiming he had not used the N word in 10 years. Everyone knew that was not true because almost no one can make that claim and be honest.

I’ve known all along and appreciate how respectful you have been in disagreement with said line

from time to time Digby speaks to the immaturity of the current progressive movement (no, not you :D) – and it used to make me feel uncomfortable and defensive – but have seen some things these past few weeks that make her glaringly correct – the magical thinking, the gullibility, the reliance on personalities vs principles – oy, and don’t get me started on what is undeniable sexism in some of the attacks Jane and her crew have withstood

sadly, I see myself going in to full on Mama Lion mode should any of these brats come after her – it wont end well

Underground railroad
Women’s suffrage
Martin Luther King
Union Strikes before Reagan
google successful boycotts (list is too long to post)
In addition to numerous sit-ins and the like at colleges around the country, the most important, (I believe) resulting in the end of Apartheid in South Africa.

The British managed to kill a lot of Indians, Muslim and Hindu, during the years Gandhi fought for independence. There were also numerous confrontations between Muslims and Hindus with Gandhi more than once almost starving to death fasting to end the violence. I don’t think even Gandhi would call it a non-violent revolution.

i’ve only been paying much attention to national politics for less than a decade, so i have no problem if people want to tell me that my political understanding is immature. i do however, sometimes object to other stuff. *g*

Universal mandate – PO = Certain defeat for Dems. This is a (not so) hidden regressive tax on the middle class, with a massive transfer of wealth to the health insurers. What are they thinking of? They already are facing the wrath of the right. Now they want the wrath of the center and the left, too? Dumb, dumb, and dumber.

hackworth1, it is a strange turn of events in one sense, but in another, the public option is a very populist issue and populism crosses party lines, so in that sense it doesn’t surprise me.

Across the party affiliations we disagree on many issues but health care and fighting against corporate domination is a very American thing. It’s a shame that the politicians don’t see that. Too many of them become masters of the universe once they’re elected and eligible for the incumbent bonuses from the corporate mob. Reelection is everything and the conventional wisdom is that the person with the most money gets reelected. A resurgence of populism could change that. We’re ripe for a third party right now. It remains to be seen if the beltway Dems realize this and first among them, Pres. Obama who may still think his magic will work.

P.S. The Republicans who changed their party affiliation are probably the ones who have stopped voting against their own best interests. I’ve been waiting for that to happen for a long time. I hope they’ve woken up.

In May Rahm and the WH sit down with BigPharma and cut a deal to keep the money flowing; Pharma spends $ on the teevee showing their support for “healthcare change”; Public Option mutates into Co-Ops!; Harry and Louise love it; August recess, clownhalls and oooohhhhh America’s worried about Socialism let’s listen to the wacky 20% who, at least according to Broder, speak for “Real America”; TheLeft fights back with ads, tv time, and Chomsky-like blog arguments, 77% want reform; WH Officials (Rahm) get pissy and Scahill sandbags Todd, the whole Village is insulted; Bluedogs trump Progressives (where else are they going to go, Nader?, let ‘em); Pfizer settles with Holder’s Justice…..hmmmmm, I’m confused, sure I am.

One term, unbelievable the Dems will let it all slip away to prove once again Rahm & the DLC don’t have an effin’ clue what the rest of us are thinking and what the country needs.

The WH was leading the charge and Obama chose a glib, dismissive stance only saying it would be “disruptive” without ever explaining himself. Supposedly, the public forums have been open, but no one has yet question him on this. Are people really that dim?

Who does the White House think it’s going to improve their standing with if they pick a fight with the left? No one who voted red in 2008 is going to switch their vote in 2010 because Obama fights the leftists. There’s absolutely no upside to this.

Yeah, that’s what we need tort reform and a health care reform bill that gives more money to insurance companies. Tort reform on top of the immunity that vaccine and pharmaceutical companies already have thanks to the Republican administration that just left (well, not quite if you count the Cheneys). Tort reform so that the little guy can have even less access to the machinery of justice than is enjoyed now, thanks to restrictions set by the mostly Federalist Society judges who have been appointed to the bench in the past eight years.

Why don’t you say what you mean. You’d be happy to see unbridled corporate governance with no restrictions on how a business operates whether or not it operates in good faith or in the public interest so long s the shareholders can see a positive bottom line every four months when earnings come out.

People that can still read in this country should start refreshing their acquaintance with Dickens, Zola, and Balzac for starters. Then maybe they won’t be shocked when they find themselves out in the streets still being hounded by credit card companies and other creditors after their pound of flesh.

A kleptocracy, that’s what we wound up with forget about the republic the framers wanted to leave us.

I agree. Think about all the young people who got excited and now can see for themselves what a liar he turned out to be. I can not think of one significant promise he has delivered on. It is clear he is continuing almost all if not all of the Bush policies. Can someone name one retreat from the Bush agenda?

There is only one way to win real healthcare reform; make companies instruct their lobbyists to stand down from pressuring politicians on their vote. In the 1960’s, activists pressured politicians because they controlled legislation. Today, it’s lobbyists that control Washington, and the legislation it produces.

Obama will sign any bill that reaches his desk. He is relying on the pressure from lobbyists, and their money, to produce the final bill that will please corporate interests.

Companies are not concerned with voters/consumers because we aim our efforts at each other; not at the power behind the curtain. Redirect our peaceful energy at companies, or more precisely, their income, and they will begin to listen to voters/consumers.

The proposition to companies by activists is simple: Stop blocking real healthcare reform or we will take away your incurious, mindless, controllable consumers, that respond to marketing like Pavlovian lab experiments, and replace them with calculating consumers with an agenda.

I knew Obama was going to pan out like this, though I think the next 6 months will show most of the cards. The last bit will be shown as the dem’s turtle up to “win” the 2010 election (what they will give up, I am guessing its the poor people stuff that they have no use for).

No this completely goes against everything Obama has said a bill “must” contain, “it must lower cost” a bill that rasises cost should not be an option, right? well that has to be our focus now. NO “strong” PO, no mandates, no compromise, no bill. that HAS to be the line in the sand.we have to convince enough progressives, including senators (like Sanders for instance) that, forget the white house, their own political careers are riding on it, even if it means no bill.

FDL working again on my laptop, yea! Expecting to be flamed for supporting the President but please at least wait for his speech to the joint session of Congress called for September 9 and hear what the man has to say. I don’t understand why he is being attacked for trying to let Congress do their job and write bills rather than dictating and expecting a rubber stamp, a la Bush. Do you want change in this country or just a never ending pie fight?

the only reason I support the public option is because the leadership has said for some time that this is our best hope. well, they sure don’t ACT like it’s our best hope. it seems to me that the democratic leadership is more concerned with people holding pictures of Obama with a Hitler mustache than they are in people who voted for them and support health care.

compare and contrast Bush bullying everything he wanted through with Obama timidly wanting to meet people in the middle who want the lord to strike him dead.

the steady beating of right wing tom-toms is wearing away the popular support of the plan. I’d like to see O. or Sibelius or somebody from the Admin. stand up and cheer for this and rally the support that exists for it. every day they don’t is a day that I don’t believe they have any intention of passing a public option.

Sorry cregan, I believe in the constitution which only requires a majority vote in the Senate, and I also believe in Democracy and in the people’s ability to vote for change and to get change. The filibuster is anti-democratic. It serves no useful purpose in the Senate except to preserve the power and influence of individual Senators. We need to get rid of it. Insofar as reconciliation is a way around the filibuster, I’m for it. I know that Republicans will use it once they get back into power, as they did before, whatever we decide to do now. So we may as well do it and implement the result of the last election.

More generally, right now the US Government is a perfect instrument for preventing us from collectively meeting our problems. At the center of this instrument from thwarting problem solving and change is the US Senate and the filibuster.

We need to get rid of it. Then we need to get rid of the electoral college. Then we need to get voting in the Senate weighted according to the population represented by each Senator. Then we need to get the Federal Reserve Bank placed under the Executive Branch. it’s lack of responsibility to the voters is an intolerable abuse.

That’s enough for now. But don’t get me started on all the changes that are needed to transform this faux democracy into a real one.

Obama traded control of the healthcare debate already. He cut deals with Big Pharma and Big Insurance so as to prevent them from giving too much campaign money to the Republicans in 2010 and 2012. He cut deals because he was afraid that if he gave the People what we want, he would lose power.

The party currently in charge, the Money Party, has had a long string of unbroken influence. The richest 300,000 of us have had a grand old time on the backs of the 300,000,000 rest of us, and the time has come to re-balance the load.

The game is rigged, but the only way to have a chance is to get out there and play. What we need is a new team .. a new political party.