The day of reckoning is here. DH needs to pay his first RMD before the end of February. (His 401k is in Fidelity.) I have been using this calculator to get an idea what will need to be taken out of his 401k. RMD CALCULATOR–Investor.govhttps://www.investor.gov/additional-res ... calculator

BUT, now that the time has come, I realize I don't know how to officially determine the amount to be withdrawn from the 401k, how much will go to the IRS, or how to pay it.

Will Fidelity calculate the total required withdrawal and send us a check for us to sort out taxes and leftover to be reinvested in a taxable account?
Fidelity can't calculate the amount that is payable to the feds because they don't know our tax situation, so it seems our tax preparer would determine the amount that will go to the IRS, leaving the rest to be reinvested.

Fidelity can certainly tell you how much has to be taken out for RMd. I imagine they will send you a check or make a direct deposit at your preference.No, they don't know your tax situation but that does not affect the size of the RMD.Your accountant can tell you the amount early in 2019 but could probably give you an estimate soon based on knowledge of your 2017 income and assuming little has changed. MOst likely you will want to pay the IRS out of a different source than your 401k as any payment of taxes coming out of your 401k will result in additional tax able income(everything coming out ofa 401k is taxed ) Is the 401k the only account on which you are responsible for other RMD such as another 401k or traditional IRA?. If not the only account you will owe additional money

Why the end of February? If he turned 70 1/2 last year, he has until April 1 of this year to take the 2017 RMD. (and he'll have to take his 2018 RMD before 12/31/18). If he's turning 70 1/2 this year he has until April 1, 2019 to take the first RMD.

I have been taking RMDs for a few years now and it is really quite simple.

Step 1: Use that RMD calculator you linked to determine the RMD amount. For example, if the value of the 401K on I January 2018 (yesterday) is $800,000, the first year RMD will be $29197.08. Call Fidelity or go online and pull $29197.08 out of the 401K and put it the fund of your choice in a Fidelity taxable account. I use a money market fund.

Step 2: Call your tax guy and tell him you just took an RMD of $29197.08 for 2018. Ask him how much you should withhold for the 2018 tax year, and prepay that amount of tax from whatever source you want.

pshonore
DH turned 70 in August 2017. We are trying to avoid paying two RMDs in one year.

sometimesinvestor

“Most likely you will want to pay the IRS out of a different source than your 401k as any payment of taxes coming out of your 401k will result in additional taxable income (everything coming out of a 401k is taxed )”

We can’t do this. The first RMD is 2/3 our annual income and in a four years would clean out our money market. All of the RMD withdrawal has to come from the 401k, unfortunately. I have a small R/O IRA at Vanguard, and if I can't convert all of it to my ROTH and stay within our new tax bracket, my RMDs will start next year. A third of our portfolio is in ROTHs.

fishnskiguy
Thanks for the step-by-step approach. Linear explanations help when I lack expertise. We have to take the full RMD amount out of the 401k in February to avoid two RMDs in one year, and we plan move the remainder to a taxable account in Vanguard where we can get better ERs.

pshonore
DH turned 70 in August 2017. We are trying to avoid paying two RMDs in one year.

sometimesinvestor

“Most likely you will want to pay the IRS out of a different source than your 401k as any payment of taxes coming out of your 401k will result in additional taxable income (everything coming out of a 401k is taxed )”

We can’t do this. The first RMD is 2/3 our annual income and in a four years would clean out our money market. All of the RMD withdrawal has to come from the 401k, unfortunately. I have a small R/O IRA at Vanguard, and if I can't convert all of it to my ROTH and stay within our new tax bracket, my RMDs will start next year. A third of our portfolio is in ROTHs.

fishnskiguy
Thanks for the step-by-step approach. Linear explanations help when I lack expertise. We have to take the full RMD amount out of the 401k in February to avoid two RMDs in one year, and we plan move the remainder to Vanguard where we can get better ERs.

Sounds like he's turning 70 1/2 in Feb - he has all year to take the RMD. When you look it up in a table be sure to use his attained age this year which is 71. The deadline is in the year he turns 70 1/2; not the month he turns 70 1/2. His next RMD will be due in 2019 (anytime during the year).

DH turns 70.5 at the end of February this year. His birthday is in August. Our tax preparer thinks we would pay twice if he doesn't pay RMDs this February. Does that make sense?

No, it does not make sense. He need to make a withdrawal in 2018 or he can delay it until early 2019. If he delayed it up until 4/1/19, only then would he have to make two withdrawals which would be in 2019.
Gill

I'm going to use $30k as the RMD to avoid having to multiply by $29,xxx.

If you tell Fidelity to make a $30k withdrawal from the 401(k) and withhold 20% for federal tax and 5% for state tax* then Fidelity will send $6k to the US Treasury, $1.5k to the state and $22.5k to your taxable account. All together $30k comes out of the 401(k) and that satisfies the RMD.

So what you need to do is call your tax guy, tell him about the $30k RMD and any other income anticipated for the year, ask him how much you need to have withheld and then pass that on the Fidelity. If you tell Fidelity not to withhold anything then you will need to make estimated tax payments, or have some other source of withholding, or just pay the under withholding penalty next year.

* They may not do this for all states, but chances are if you need state withholding they will do it and if they can't they'll tell you and you can work on plan B.

DH turns 70.5 at the end of February this year. His birthday is in August. Our tax preparer thinks we would pay twice if he doesn't pay RMDs this February. Does that make sense?

Of course it doesn't make sense. Maybe you just misunderstood? If not, and this tax preparer is really so confused about such a basic thing, I would find somebody else. What else might he/she be mixed up about?
JW

It's likely I may have misunderstood. The tax preparer set up a meeting this month during busy tax season about DH's RMDs exclusively, so I thought February 2018 was the deadline since he turns 70.5 then. But now, after doing a little research, I realize his RMDs are not due until April 1st of 2019, but to avoid two in one year, he should do his first RMD withdrawal this year. The tax preparer's urgency to meet about RMDs so early in the year is what threw me off.

Please take a look at this to confirm if I understand correctly:
Since DH will be 70.5 in February 2018, his first withdrawal can made anytime during 2018, and the next withdrawal is not due until December 31, 2019. All subsequent RMD withdrawals must be made by December 31 of each tax year. This avoids two withdrawals in one year.

He could legally defer his first withdrawal until April 1 of 2019, as the deadline for the first RMD is April 1 of the year after he turns 70.5, but two RMD withdrawals would be required if he postponed his first withdrawal until 2019.

This can be done automatically on the Fidelity website. They will calculate your RMD yearly and send you a check monthly, quarterly, or annually, withholding the amount of taxes you tell them to.

Go to Fidelity.com and sign in.

On the black banner at the top of the page click on the Icon that says Transfer.

Do not select an account at this time. At the bottom right hand corner choose "See more transfer options". Click on this.

On this next page are three boxes. In the far right box, the last choice is "Set up automatic withdrawals". Click on this.

Near the bottom of the page are three boxes. The left most box has the option "Set up automatic withdrawals online". Click on this.

The next page shows the accounts eligible for automatic withdrawal. Under "Action" click on "Set up an automatic withdrawal plan" for the account that you want to use (assuming you have more than one plan).

The next page shows three options. Choose the last one, which is an amount based on IRS RMD calculation. You may then have to choose the year to start the RMD payments. Click next.

The next page asks if you would like to withdraw more than the RMD. Make a choice, and if yes, enter an amount. Click next.

The next page asks what withdrawal schedule you would like, monthly, annually, or custom. Make a choice and click next.

The next page asks what funds to withdraw from. Your choices are from each fund proportionally, or you can choose specific percentages from each fund (this is assuming that your account is invested in more than one fund). Make a choice and click next.

The next page asks where you would like your money sent. Make a choice and click next.

The next page is the verification page. Check that all the choices are correct. On this screen you will see the tax percentage that Fidelity plans to withhold for Federal and State tax. I'm sure that there is a way to change that percentage, but I can't see it right now. Click next.

The next page is the agreements to terms and conditions. Check the box for "I Agree", and click submit.

Teacher, You don't need a meeting with the tax preparer. He/she seems to be looking for more ways to collect fees from you. But what you do need is another tax preparer. You should also know that you do not PAY the RMD. You TAKE it out or WITHDRAW it.

MOst likely you will want to pay the IRS out of a different source than your 401k as any payment of taxes coming out of your 401k will result in additional tax able income(everything coming out ofa 401k is taxed ) Is the 401k the only account on which you are responsible for other RMD such as another 401k or traditional IRA?. If not the only account you will owe additional money

This could be better stated since there are no extra taxes depending on how you pay them. The taxes are the same whether you have them withheld from the withdrawal or paid from another source. (The poster may be thinking of Roth conversions here, where you should try to put the entire tIRA withdrawal into a Roth and pay the taxes from elsewhere.)

If it would help your monthly budgeting, after you know the exact value of the RMD (or you round it up a little bit) and how much you need to withhold for taxes, you could have Fidelity set everything up as an automatic payment into a checking account. If you start this month, they would divide all dollar amounts by 12.

ralph124cf
I will definitely do this, and thank you for the specific instructions. I greatly appreciate it.

celia
In casual conversation, DH and I say, we "pay" RMDs but we know it's actually a forced withdrawal from the tax-deferred account which triggers a taxable event, 2.6% of the deferred money the first year, and increasing percentages every year.

I would prefer doing the withdrawals through Fidelity as Ralph outlined, and have them send funds to cover taxes directly to the state and feds, in future. The entire withdrawal will come from the 401k, so we don't need to budget for it. Vanguard did this for my ROTH conversion last year. The tax preparer encouraged me to do this, but she determined the ROTH R/O amount as per our effective tax rate. Any RMD discussions with the tax preparer in future will be done during our annual tax prep meeting. RMD withdrawals are cut-and-dried and do not warrant a separate meeting. The preparer just needs to know how much "income" is left after taxes are paid.

Do you make charitable donations or give to a religion? You can save on taxes with a "Qualified charitable distribution. (QCD)" _After_ your husband's birthday in February, have _*Fidelity*_ send the QCD. You deduct the amount from your income, and pay no taxes on that part of your RMD.

"...charitable donations made from one of your tax-deferred accounts will be exempt from taxation up to $100,000 as long as the distribution comes from a qualified account and is donated to a charity that meets the IRS stipulations." http://howardkayeinsurance.com/qualifie ... ur-estate/

I have a tIRA account with Fidelity and will turn 70.5 this year. When I logged into my account today, I noticed that Fidelity had posted on my summary page the exact amount that I need to take from this account for my RMD this year. I plan to wait until I actually turn 70.5, so that I can take a QCD before starting RMDs.

Do you make charitable donations or give to a religion? You can save on taxes with a "Qualified charitable distribution. (QCD)" _After_ your husband's birthday in February, have _*Fidelity*_ send the QCD. You deduct the amount from your income, and pay no taxes on that part of your RMD.

"...charitable donations made from one of your tax-deferred accounts will be exempt from taxation up to $100,000 as long as the distribution comes from a qualified account and is donated to a charity that meets the IRS stipulations." http://howardkayeinsurance.com/qualifie ... ur-estate/

You must actually be over 70.5 to do the QCD. Turning 70.5 during the year is not enough. Wait until September.

ralph124cf
I will definitely do this, and thank you for the specific instructions. I greatly appreciate it.

celia
In casual conversation, DH and I say, we "pay" RMDs but we know it's actually a forced withdrawal from the tax-deferred account which triggers a taxable event, 2.6% of the deferred money the first year, and increasing percentages every year.

I would prefer doing the withdrawals through Fidelity as Ralph outlined, and have them send funds to cover taxes directly to the state and feds, in future. The entire withdrawal will come from the 401k, so we don't need to budget for it. Vanguard did this for my ROTH conversion last year. The tax preparer encouraged me to do this, but she determined the ROTH R/O amount as per our effective tax rate. Any RMD discussions with the tax preparer in future will be done during our annual tax prep meeting. RMD withdrawals are cut-and-dried and do not warrant a separate meeting. The preparer just needs to know how much "income" is left after taxes are paid.

Thanks again, for your help.

For safety sake on your first time doing this I would ask Fidelity to calculate the amount of the RMD. The IRS tables for determining the amount are not shown in percentages. You take the balance of the portfolio that is subject to RMD from December 31st 2017 (in your case) and divide it by a number provided in the table.

The lower the divisor, the more money is required to be taken out, increasing every year. I believe that the first RMD for someone born in the 2nd half of the year has a divisor of 26.5. On a balance of $100,000 divided by 26.5, the amount of the 1st RMD would be $3773.58. That is not 2.6%, it is more like 3.77%. If you took 2.6% as the RMD you would owe the remainder plus a 50% IRS penalty on the amount not taken.

Edited to add that there is a different worksheet for someone who has a spouse more than 10 years younger. Here is the link for that.

I used that calculator to come up with the amounts I referred to, then calculated the percentage as 3.77% as a reference. The calculator asks you to put in your 70th birthday, either in the 1st half or the 2nd half of the year. If you put age 70 in the 1st half it will give you a divisor of 27.4, if you put age 70 in the 2nd half it will say you owe nothing, which is because your RMD is due a year later. Put age 71, which comes up with 26.5, the correct divisor for your husband.

I'm no expert on RMD's by any means, but I did sleep in a Holiday Inn last night. But seriously, I was corrected yesterday on an wrong assumption of another sort concerning RMD's. I was born in the 2nd half of the year too. I thought that, like QCD's you had to wait until the day you turned 70.5 to have a withdrawal count toward your RMD, which was incorrect. In the year your husband turns 70.5 (2018) you can take part or all of the RMD anytime during the year, and to avoid 2 RMD's in one year he needs to take it before 12/31/18. Another member also told me that my divisor for my 1st RMD would be 26.5, so I guess that member should get the credit.

I used that calculator to come up with the amounts I referred to, then calculated the percentage as 3.77% as a reference. The calculator asks you to put in your 70th birthday, either in the 1st half or the 2nd half of the year. If you put age 70 in the 1st half it will give you a divisor of 27.4, if you put age 70 in the 2nd half it will say you owe nothing, which is because your RMD is due a year later. Put age 71, which comes up with 26.5, the correct divisor for your husband.

I'm no expert on RMD's by any means, but I did sleep in a Holiday Inn last night. But seriously, I was corrected yesterday on an wrong assumption of another sort concerning RMD's. I was born in the 2nd half of the year too. I thought that, like QCD's you had to wait until the day you turned 70.5 to have a withdrawal count toward your RMD, which was incorrect. In the year your husband turns 70.5 (2018) you can take part or all of the RMD anytime during the year, and to avoid 2 RMD's in one year he needs to take it before 12/31/18. Another member also told me that my divisor for my 1st RMD would be 26.5, so I guess that member should get the credit.

RMDs always use your attained age in the year you take the RMD. Assume you were born in 1947. If you were born in the first half of the year, you will turn 70 1/2 in the second half , owe an RMD in 2017 and use your attained age of 70 to look up the factor (27.4). If you were born in the second half of the year, you will turn 70 1/2 in the first half of the following year (2018) , you will owe an RMD that year, and use your attained age of 71 (26.5) If you delay until the following April 1 2019. I believe you would use Age 72 (25.6)

I appreciate these added details very much. It's the kind of background information I need. Even though I will use Fidelity's calculations, etc., I feel I can double check the withdrawal amounts independently, now. I'm so glad I posted this thread.

I tried 3 different RMD calculators; all agreed that my withdrawal factor is 27.4 for 2018, which is consistent with IRS tables; that is, I divide my balance by 27.4 to determine my RMD.

Investor.gov and Schwab gave identical results for my Fidelity tIRA, but both were a penny less than the estimate provided by Fidelity; i.e., Fidelity rounded up to the nearest cent, while Investor.gov and Schwab rounded down.https://www.schwab.com/public/schwab/in ... lators/rmd

The Vanguard calculator allows entering the balance only in whole dollars (round up or round down?). Also, the Vanguard calculator was the only one that insisted that I give a birthdate for my non-spouse beneficiary.

IRS rule for multiple tIRAs is to calculate RMD separately for each tIRA and then sum the RMDs. This suggests that they are particular about how the numbers are rounded.

I can't find any rules with regard to rounding the balance(s) to whole dollars or with regard to rounding off the calculated RMD(s).

IRS rule for multiple tIRAs is to calculate RMD separately for each tIRA and then sum the RMDs. This suggests that they are particular about how the numbers are rounded.

I don't believe that rule is because the IRS cares about rounding. Different IRAs can use different calculations. For example if IRA A has your 15 year younger Spouse as a beneficiary and IRA B has a different beneficiary they will use different divisors. So you can't always add the values of IRA A and IRA B together and divide. Some time ago this was much more likely. Before the uniform table, the age of the beneficiary mattered more. IIRC there were also some elections that could be made about how RMDs were calculated and they could be made differently for different accounts.

QCDs are a good idea. It's time I look into using them. Thanks for the reminder and the link.

I did not read the entire thread carefully but note that QCDs can only be taken from IRAs and not 401K. The first distribution from a 401K is regarded as a RMD. My entire tax deferred account was in an 401K. In 2017, I took the RMD and later in the year, I realized that QCDs would help me reduce Medicare IRMAA. So, in December 2017, I rolled over my 401K to Fidelity and Vanguard IRAs. This year I've started to take QCDs. I'm still waiting for the mailman to deliver the checks. (Poor guys delivering mail in this weather!).

Well, that squashes that idea. I plan to do my last ROTH conversion with the last bit of my tIRA this year. I wonder why 401ks don't qualify for QUDs. A Medicare IRMAA reduction would be most appreciated.

Well, that squashes that idea. I plan to do my last ROTH conversion with the last bit of my tIRA this year. I wonder why 401ks don't qualify for QUDs. A Medicare IRMAA reduction would be most appreciated.

My guess would be that 401Ks are mainly for employees who are still working and in the case of my megacorp, the administrative fees were paid by the company. The 401K was not managed by either Vanguard or Fidelity and I had to call up the company HR department to get information on my 401K.