lioness, I heard of it, if I'm not mistaken I think you can pay a school (maybe an organization). It's a little vague, it's been a while.

That would be very touchy, establishing criteria for what constitutes advanced. For one thing, what could be considered advanced today might not work next month, and what's to stop certified people from getting PR0 and taking clients with them, not even accidentally. And they'd still have their certification.

They can certify passing a test but they can't certify for experience and the value of observation. Things change so fast that if someone who's qualified doesn't keep up they won't be very qualified for long.

On the other hand, people might believe it's worth something. A lot still pay good money for subitting to hundreds, including FFA's, with sites that never get touched that can't even be spidered. I've had a few of those that got taken through that route by "specialists".

That's why I asked. Someone is marketing themselves as a CASEPS to some of the lists I lurk on (some of the lists that you may also be familiar w/ Marcia). So far, I haven't seen any mis information. However, on these lists, if one person receives any information, they broadcast it to all the group(s) as word of god.

Yes, Brett, my friend, it's a baaaaaaaad sign. I did post to that particular group a word of caution (at least if I get kicked of that list, my webmasterworld friends will still love me....). In that particular group, there are many sole proprietors trying to build an online business on a shoestring budget (read $0). Many of the members do their own web sites, and, often times, misinformation is passed around like wildfire. As Marcia mentioned, several have paid good money to 'specialists' w/ bad results. Others have created their own bad results for free.

An SEO is only as good as his or her listings. Very rarely do you see people that will put those out.

What a person "knows" about SEO is irrelevant. I see people on the boards all the time that hold themselves out as professionals that are lucky if they can get listed for their full names.

I think the VAST majority of people that attempt to do this for a living have no clue what they are doing.

The only certification that matters:

Where sites that have "hired" you are listed.

I have seen arguments for ethical standards - that is almost as bad.

This is the one occupation that SHOULD be easy for outsiders to judge, but isn't for most people.

It is like a stock broker (who does investment advice) - you can give them a series seven test, but the only thing that really matters - is how much money they have made off their portfolio (assuming it has been done over a period of time that puts skill to the test).

I am sure alot of people claim to be professionals that are not or are not quite up to par on what they are claiming to talk about. This is the main reason I say its a hobby for me, I dont trust myself enough to jump in and try to do it pro. I dont hink I would try for an SEO Cert though it changes way to often for that. With most Certs the stuff changes but the base normally stays the same. There is no base in SEO that I have found at least.

The problem with this or any other certification from any organization that no one has ever heard of is: what qualifies them as being the authorities? Hmm.... are they certified?

Especially in an area as filled with misinformation and misunderstanding as seo is, there's no reason at all to think that these people or anyone they "certify" are any more knowledgeable or qualified than the average person off the street.

I can personally tell you from reviewing over 354 SEO/SEM websites that certification means next to nothing. As a matter of fact, a good portion of those certified didn't pass muster on a number of review guidelines that we have in place.

Until our industry has one certifiable resource where people can be trained on the intracacies of our business, the certifications are just a piece of paper and you also get some neat little icons to place on your site! ;)

> In terms of SEO/SEM, academics are helpful, but that doesn't always equal experience and hard work.

WebRookie, you are dead on with that statement. The problem I see is with the academics portion. Many proclaimed SEO professionals have sort of retired from the everyday bump and grind. Some may have done it a few years ago and then decided to earn an income from their gained knowledge.

Unfortunately, we are seeing knowledge being shared that is somewhat dated. In fact, I've spoken to a few via email who thought the way they were doings things was exceptable. They knew nothing about PR, they knew nothing about the penalties that are being dished out, and their pages were borderline gateway spam.

Do you know how many SEO's are out there that are still using a popular program to build, submit and deploy so called optimized sites? The number is staggering.

If the instructors of a proclaimed SEO institution for training are not keen on the daily trends of our industry, the methods of teaching are lacking some very important elements. If they are teaching the core basics without any gray area techniques, then they are one step ahead. The core basics to me are site and directory structure. Without those two, the optimization is not complete.

The problem with this or any other certification from any organization that no one has ever heard of is: what qualifies them as being the authorities? Hmm.... are they certified? Especially in an area as filled with misinformation and misunderstanding as seo is, there's no reason at all to think that these people or anyone they "certify" are any more knowledgeable or qualified than the average person off the street.

exactly - this isn't like MCSE (or whatever it is now) - you can't just have an objective test - unless the Search Engines are going to administer it (which obviously they are not).

The amount of disinformation about search engines is huge. Even among "experts". 90% of SEO stuff on the web is still about meta-tags. One day I am going to write a book.

One day I will tell you about the trick that google TOLD us about - and yet - NO ONE on this board (or anywhere else) uses it.

No wonder people have problems - they believe what they read (so did I). I only started to learn how things really worked - when I started to rely on FACTS and not what people think. Excel is the best friend of a real SEO.

I got a spam email the other day for a book on search engine positioning. I checked out the web page for the book, and one of the promises it made was to show people how to avoid search engine penalties. The interesting part was the web page for the book had a PR0!

Absolutely. If the site structure has problems, the search engine spiders may not be able to click a link, spider text or reach a directory. One site I helped work on recently has so many validation problems that the only text on the home page became two big links without ending tags that can't be spidered. Not good.

What about the user? If the user can navigate well through the website, then typically the spiders can. Usability, common sense and tons of research add up to staying on top of things.

I have just qualified with the academy of web specalists as an SEO. I didn't have to pay for the course, my work did and they seem to think that the certificate is worth something and as a matter of fact so do I. It took 16 weeks of hard work to learn how and especially why things can work the way they do and i acknowledge that the business changes very quickly and its now part of my daily work to read ( a lot !) but now i am paid more with my certificate than without it and at the end of the day if i can produce results and i get a fat pay check I am happy and my company is happy.

I would highly recommend the course run by Robin Nobles, Bill Gentry and a few others but the personal tuition I received from them was worth the price of the course alone.

I like my certificate too ! In a couple of months i am going on to do the Advanced SEO course and i will have another certificate and if i can swing it a pay rise too.

I do understand though that i am only as good as the results i can produce but with a good knowledge base behind me and a few months of se work i feel like a real SEO.