As a teen, I am getting a kick of this thread. The disconnect between what was reality decades ago and what it is now is immense, but what seems even more alarming is that some people's perception has not changed at all.

To start, cars are not as cheap as they used to be. I do not have empirical data to support Cash for Clunkers as the reason, but it is clear that it is almost impossible to find even the shiattiest of cars for under $1000.

Part-time jobs are not as plentiful as they were before. Sure, you had three jobs in high school and could afford an old car and maybe even a place to live. Well now in a ton of markets you are not competing for those jobs with a bunch of teens, you are also competing with people that were pushed out of their jobs by the recession and have as many years in experience as you living on this planet. I don't blame hiring managers for choosing them since they don't only have more experience, but are a much steadier source of labor when you consider that they might be stuck there for a while and are not leaving for college or the military any time soon. Multiple jobs are almost a thing of the past in some particularly hit regions.

The cost of things has risen astronomically faster than wages. This obviously affects everyone, but young people might be the group that has been hit the hardest. Again, I do not have any empirical data to support this, but it sure seems that way. The cost of college continues to rise, aid is not as comprehensive as it was before, and other things particularly relevant to young people (technology, clothing, student housing, etc.) continue to rise in price. Couple that to the lack of jobs, and the fact that you have never lived to work during the good times and hence you have no savings, and the picture becomes quite dire.

Paid internships are increasingly harder to come by. Even large companies in lucrative sectors like finance and technology keep making intern positions unpaid and still getting a record number of applicants. Students just want to get whatever they can on their resume hoping it will pay off in the future, and employers keep getting more and more out of free labor. Apprenticeships are also almost impossible to come by on technical sectors, but that's just from what I hear from friends that went that route.

This isn't meant as a "my generation has it harder than yours" since I understand every generation has its own set of challenges. Just understand times change and what some of you lived may not be the reality a different generation is living. I have been extremely lucky to have passed most of these hardships, so far anyway, but the overwhelming majority of my peers are not being so lucky. Not by a long shot.

We're making the next generation pay money they don't have for degrees they don't need for jobs that won't exist.

Like the Wall St Crash; things are slowly building to a head, and when it breaks, things will become very bad for EVERYONE, very quickly, without warning. And it will be unbprecedented, so no one will know what do do. The standard of living will be rocked like it's never been before for millions.

Hey Subby, go fark yourself. America's youth is the largest unemployed age group in this country, its hard to have the money for a car if you can't afford one. Those that do have jobs, are underemployed, and being paid peanuts. Yet their employers make it pretty impossible to have more than one job, because they want you to be flexible. All of which doesn't really make it possible for you to not only afford a car but climb out of poverty, but screw those people right? I mean, if you didn't go to college you're just a loser who deserves to be a useless peon right Subby? Then you can justify being in debt because of your college degree while you work at a company for the next 30 to 40 years of your life.

The youth of America are being farked, and farked hard. Don't be surprised when they finally get tired of this shiat.

if you look at the study they cite, one of the biggest disparities between groups of kids that have their licenses by the time their 18 and those that don't is their household income, and the biggest reason cited for kids that don't have licenses is not having a car. it probably makes sense that in the wake of a recession and a steadily increasing income disparity there would be a decrease in teenage car ownership/licensing.

/haven't owned a car in 6 years, sh*t's overrated//is "i don't even own a car" the new "i don't even have a tv?"

Cash-for-clunkers pretty much took a generation's worth of hand-me-down cars off the road. I'll bet that program raised the average value of an American car by over $1,000 just by removing so much resale competition.

With the rules on riding with other kids, there is no point for kids to get their license since they won't be able to drive their friends around. Plus the economic issues, cash for clunkers taking killing used car inventory and bonsai parenting.

Another reason often cited is money. Maynard says the average cost of a new car is about $30,000, before factoring in car insurance. Add in the high price of gas in some places and owning a car is simply too expensive for a young person.

If only there were a way for young people to buy a car that wasn't new. Perhaps one that had been driven by a previous owner.

bingethinker:Stop trying to introduce reality-based thinking based on the way things currently are into this thread! Boomers want to whine about how millennials are supposedly moochers for not magically taking advantage of opportunities that aren't there anymore, not listen to reasoned arguments.

And millennials want to whine about how boomers have all the jobs and all the money, when a lot of us aren't doing that well either. There's some reality for you, junior.

Lol "junior." I am in my 30s and have a decent job, thanks. I am sorry you aren't doing well either, but we came from a time when we had money and opportunities, and watched it all get gambled away. Stop yelling at clouds and go after the gamblers on wall st if you want things to change.

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom:I tried to get a summer job, and the only one offered to me was a courier at my step-dad's real estate company. I would have been out walking during the hottest part of the day, and only making $15 per hour.

Half the people in this area would kill for a job that pays that much, even part-time.

JorgiX:As a teen, I am getting a kick of this thread. The disconnect between what was reality decades ago and what it is now is immense, but what seems even more alarming is that some people's perception has not changed at all.

To start, cars are not as cheap as they used to be. I do not have empirical data to support Cash for Clunkers as the reason, but it is clear that it is almost impossible to find even the shiattiest of cars for under $1000.

Part-time jobs are not as plentiful as they were before. Sure, you had three jobs in high school and could afford an old car and maybe even a place to live. Well now in a ton of markets you are not competing for those jobs with a bunch of teens, you are also competing with people that were pushed out of their jobs by the recession and have as many years in experience as you living on this planet. I don't blame hiring managers for choosing them since they don't only have more experience, but are a much steadier source of labor when you consider that they might be stuck there for a while and are not leaving for college or the military any time soon. Multiple jobs are almost a thing of the past in some particularly hit regions.

The cost of things has risen astronomically faster than wages. This obviously affects everyone, but young people might be the group that has been hit the hardest. Again, I do not have any empirical data to support this, but it sure seems that way. The cost of college continues to rise, aid is not as comprehensive as it was before, and other things particularly relevant to young people (technology, clothing, student housing, etc.) continue to rise in price. Couple that to the lack of jobs, and the fact that you have never lived to work during the good times and hence you have no savings, and the picture becomes quite dire.

Paid internships are increasingly harder to come by. Even large companies in lucrative sectors like finance and technology keep making intern positions unpaid and still getting a record ...

Stop trying to introduce reality-based thinking based on the way things currently are into this thread! Boomers want to whine about how millennials are supposedly moochers for not magically taking advantage of opportunities that aren't there anymore, not listen to reasoned arguments.

Price to buy and maintain a car has at least doubled from when I graduated from high school in 2004. I had a '95 skylark I got for just over $1500. My brother was lucky enough to get his license just after Cash for Clunkers, and he was paying almost 4X as much for gas and over double what I did for a similar car.

Great work everyone.

FTA: "My girlfriend drives me everywhere. That sounds sad, and 20 years ago I'd be considered pathetic, but it's almost normal now to be that way," says Mike Clubb, who is in his 20s.

No Mike, you are still pathetic. It's not normal and it's really awkward. Get a job and car or just use public transit.

GhostFish:So much vindictive spite aimed at the age groups with the least amount of money and power. Previous generations stripmined the opportunity out of this country, and now the kids left with the scraps get kicked around and spit on for not taking advantage of all the opportunities that don't exist anymore.

I have to say it's a sick thing, watching the baby boom generation, I knew they were selfish tw*ts, but watching them fark over their kids future, that's harsh.

numb3r5ev3n:Stop trying to introduce reality-based thinking based on the way things currently are into this thread! Boomers want to whine about how millennials are supposedly moochers for not magically taking advantage of opportunities that aren't there anymore, not listen to reasoned arguments.

As a 32 year old who was lucky enough to do well, I am stuck between those two views. First, my advice to any individual is the crap the boomers say all the time: work harder, save more, cry less, you name it. However, while that is the right move for any individual, it isn't going to do shiat to shrink the lower class or strengthen the middle class. Those require society changes far beyond what an individual can do by out-competing those at his level. There are limited resources, and there always will be. The amount of those resources relative to the number of people will change over time, of course, but anyone pretending that poor people increasing their workload will do a damn thing about the increasing consolidation of wealth in the hands of the very very few is pretty darn ignorant.

If the poor double their productivity, then the number the businesses will hire will be cut. If they increase their hours, then those hours will come out of someone else's paycheck. If a solid work ethic would change the world into a utopia, then we'd already live in one.

The biggest problem is a tightening of the used market, between cash for clunkers, the decrease in production from 08-11, and the decrease in disposable income for the middle class there's been a very easily noticed increase in the cost of used cars. I've never owned a new car, always preferring to allow someone else to take the depreciation hit, but I'm very seriously considering it for my next vehicle as used cars are no longer the bargain that they used to be.

Middle class really sucks now. I drove a god damn beater Taurus into the ground as a teenager, saved up enough to buy a nearly new car at 18 working 3 jobs, drove it to 165 thousand miles till i totaled it after college.Had a couple of beaters after, but could buy a new nicely outfitted fusion at 28.I guess long story short, you should have lived a few lives by the time you are 29

bborchar:JorgiX: As a teen, I am getting a kick of this thread. The disconnect between what was reality decades ago and what it is now is immense, but what seems even more alarming is that some people's perception has not changed at all.

To start, cars are not as cheap as they used to be. I do not have empirical data to support Cash for Clunkers as the reason, but it is clear that it is almost impossible to find even the shiattiest of cars for under $1000.

Part-time jobs are not as plentiful as they were before. Sure, you had three jobs in high school and could afford an old car and maybe even a place to live. Well now in a ton of markets you are not competing for those jobs with a bunch of teens, you are also competing with people that were pushed out of their jobs by the recession and have as many years in experience as you living on this planet. I don't blame hiring managers for choosing them since they don't only have more experience, but are a much steadier source of labor when you consider that they might be stuck there for a while and are not leaving for college or the military any time soon. Multiple jobs are almost a thing of the past in some particularly hit regions.

The cost of things has risen astronomically faster than wages. This obviously affects everyone, but young people might be the group that has been hit the hardest. Again, I do not have any empirical data to support this, but it sure seems that way. The cost of college continues to rise, aid is not as comprehensive as it was before, and other things particularly relevant to young people (technology, clothing, student housing, etc.) continue to rise in price. Couple that to the lack of jobs, and the fact that you have never lived to work during the good times and hence you have no savings, and the picture becomes quite dire.

Paid internships are increasingly harder to come by. Even large companies in lucrative sectors like finance and technology keep making intern positions unpaid and still getting ...

The economic crisis happened on their watch, and they are the ones who chose to have kids while also choosing to defund schools, slash social programs, and remove nonacademic tracks. If we must distribute blame, it's clear the youngest generation can't possibly bear the brunt of it.

This isn't about generational warfare. As much as the current generation should not be called lazy and shiftless, they should understand how and why those that came before them failed. Together, we can fix this. But only together.

The same thing applies to the younger teens. My neighbors 16 year old is a good example. He doesn't have a formal job but does tons of odd work around the neighborhood: mowing lawns, walking dogs, trimming trees, etc.. It isn't his desired vocation but it puts a few dollars in his pocket and far more importantly it gets him frequent contact with people that have jobs and may know of an opportunity somewhere. He could sit back and whine about the lack of jobs for teens but instead he identified something that could earn him a few bucks and got off his ass and put out a few fliers.

bongon247:Warlordtrooper: What jobs subby? What jobs are available out there? There are far more people looking for work then there are jobs for them.

Try going to your local stables and offering to shovel shiat...

I've done that. But that doesn't mean there are a lot of jobs doing that around here. Also, the job was a lot more than mucking stalls. It was also caring for the horses and taking tourists out on trail rides. You don't get handed responsibility of a dozen idiots on horseback without being a damn skilled equestrian and having a few other important skills (like basic first aid).

Doesn't surprise me any. Have you seen cars today? The cheapest car Ford sells is still basically a spaceship. Even if they are 10 times more reliable than the ones we had coming up, how can we expect a teenager to afford the maintenance and repair on such a sophisticated machine? Not to mention insurance, gas etc etc.

Still, some of the best nights of my whole life were loading my buddies into a car and driving back and forth between the 5 or 6 hotspots in my suburban town just to see who was there, smoking cigarettes and trying to figure out where the girls were. I'm sure to anyone who came up in the age of cell phones, that sounds absolutely retarded, but it was pure freedom for us.

We're making the next generation pay money they don't have for degrees they don't need for jobs that won't exist.

Like the Wall St Crash; things are slowly building to a head, and when it breaks, things will become very bad for EVERYONE, very quickly, without warning. And it will be unbprecedented, so no one will know what do do. The standard of living will be rocked like it's never been before for millions.

Except for the mega-rich. They will weather the storm just fine.

I agree. You're right. But it's an incomplete picture.

Student load debt is caused by the Government interfering and distorting that market. Universities know what the market will bear for their services -say about $2,000 per semester for a typical state U. The Government chips in about $5,000 and the Universities certainly know that. So they charge $7,000. If Washington started lending students $50,000, schools would charge $52,000. They even have student loan offices to make sure you bring them that Government money.

And this is why school vouchers don't work. That awesome private school that fills every seat and charges $10,000/year will start charging $15,000 if you start handing out $5K vouchers to everyone.

No matter how much your incompetent Government tries to help; they are only generating industry specific inflation. Just like they did in the housing market from 1993 to 2008. And the kid with a degree but no job (an education produced but not used) is just like a house with no real owner - a victim of a government determined to pump up a market. Next year they will start constructing a health care disaster the same way.

You are way oversimplifying things. There are many reasons why college prices have gone up. The most basic reason is simple economics. There are more college students now than ever before so demand is at an all time high. Other factors: College administrators are incentivized to build fancy new buildings that nobody wants because it makes the balance sheet look good meaning they'll get their bonus. Whereas states used to cover about two thirds the costs of state universities, now it is typically less than half the cost, leaving the student to pick up the rest. The focus on research vs. teaching. The cost of cutting edge technology. Too much non teaching staff. There's more. Comparatively, the $5000 loan you are complaining about against a $50000 tuition has a relatively smaller effect.

As to health care: Feel free to compare the per person cost of pre Obama health care in America to any other first world nation with socialized medicine. Left to itself, free market health care has accomplished nothing in 40 years except for soaring costs, bankruptcies, millions of people without coverage and plenty of lucrative executive bonuses. Our system is a joke.

There is one big glaring problem with today's cars. Inspection. Here in NJ, where inspection is mandatory, the only way to pass is to plug the car into their computer, and presumably, they will tell you what is wrong with it. Nowadays ALL cars have to have these sorts of interfaces, even though they don't work with a shiat. Case in point... My wife's 1999 Volvo wouldn't pass because the check engine light is on. "Well, what do I need to fix?" "I don't know. The computer doesn't say. So I can't pass your car."

We were planning on saving that car for our son, who will be driving in a couple of years. But considering it will likely never pass inspection again, that doesn't seem likely.

Couple that with the cost of newer cars, gas, and insturance... I don't see how any teenager working at McDonalds could afford anything BUT their car, assuming they could afford even that.

Another reason often cited is money. Maynard says the average cost of a new car is about $30,000, before factoring in car insurance. Add in the high price of gas in some places and owning a car is simply too expensive for a young person.

That's it in a nutshell.

My first fulltime job paid me $1.92 an hour. Lower middle class wages were a little over $6000 a year. Car insurance was not mandatory and gas was between $0.20 and $0.25 a gallon. In 1971 I bought a 1967 Pontiac GTO for $1500. I put chrome rims on it for under $200. I had it professionally painted a rich metallic blue for $400. I bought a used set of side, under the door pipes for $50.

My car insurance cost me $15 a month.

With a $100 set of mainly used tools, I could rebuild the engine. I could set the timing myself, change the brakes and install an AM/FM stereo system. My tag was less than half what it cost today.

Parts came from local salvage yards and the engine was a massive, over powered monster of a V-8 that got 8 mpg.

I drive a Buick LeSaber now and wnated to get it's color changed. A basic paint jobs costs over $1000. I can't work on the engine because of the chips in it. Mechanics have to with hideously expensive machines and charge me $50 an hour.

It had heavy, chrome bumpers. I drove a car with plastic bumpers and someone tapped me and cracked the 'bumper cover'. It cost me an astounding $375 to get it fixed. I drive a van and got hit and wrecked a headlight. The whole assembly was plastic. It cost $250 just to get the assembly, without the bulb.

Traffic tickets have tripled over the years. Car prices have soared beyond what my home cost.

The cost of getting even a used car, working on it and customizing the thing has become obscenely expensive. Gas has popped up to $4.00 a gallon. Tires quadrupled in price -- even recaps.

I used to put Freon in the a/c system at $1.00 a can. Now, I pay $4.00 a can. Sometimes $5.00.

Plus, traffic is bad. Real bad, ever since the car dealers convinced folks to buy cars for everyone in the family except the dog.

I can understand why folks are slowing down on buying cars. Besides, years ago, car dealers made a huge thing about buying a new car every year. Sheer greed and waste, since most of them wound up in the salvage and scrap yards in 5 years anyhow.

What bothers me the most about the economy is that people like me, who don't want or need much, still can't get what little we desire.

I live in a shed with an air conditioner and a solid internet connection. I'm mostly okay with this. I've never had much and I've learned to make do with what I've got. Only thing I'd really change is location and choice of food.

I do have a job cleaning condos for the rich and frivolous. Which I get all kinds of ridicule for. But it's the only job I was able to find after nearly two years of looking. I make roughly $300 a week, which is the most I've ever made from a job. When I worked retail I was lucky to walk away with half that. But it's still not enough. Bills keep getting higher, and god damn I hope I never have any medical emergency because if I do I'm farked. I'm waiting for the day when a doc tells me I have cancer and I get to just go home and die.

I have to live off of spaghetti-o's and ramen because that $300 a week is eaten up by student debt and various bills. The only luxury I allow myself is cigarettes, because fark if I'm going to live a long and healthy life in this day and age. May as well enjoy myself.

So here I am sitting in a dank little shack, fighting off all manner of insect every night before bed, and I'm still fairly okay with that. Hell, I've considered eschewing the shack entirely for a nice tent down by a river.

But what then? Then I get to deal with all manner of police and citizens biatching and moaning because all I need out of life is shelter, some good food to eat, and some occasional entertainment. So I'm forced to work for just enough money to be slightly above homeless, just so people will leave me alone and not give me a hard time for being a poor. Which they still do.

We don't have options anymore. It's house, kids, fancy gadgets, or you're a failure at being human. Who are you to tell me that I'm a lazy entitled farkwit just because I don't want or need all the silly shiat you people buy to cram into those massive holes in your soul? In a perfect world I'd be living out of an RV with a nice wifi signal and eating fish I caught daily from the nearby river. That's my dream. But I can't have it if I want to be a social animal. If I want to be a part of society I better buy a suit and bend over for the corporations who've convinced all of you that you need all your toys to be happy.

I'd save up money and do just what I want. Buy that RV and go live in some BLM land somewhere. But the initial investment into that lifestyle is pretty expensive and I can't keep money in my bank account long enough to really make such a plan viable. So all in all the world is farked and I'm just wasting time until I die.

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom:As a 17 year old, we have to deal with a unique situation in American societal history that no previous generations had to contend with. We don't have the access to opportunities that our grandparents did, or the promise of high paying jobs out of high school, or the ability to get a higher education without taking out loans.

I tried to get a summer job, and the only one offered to me was a courier at my step-dad's real estate company. I would have been out walking during the hottest part of the day, and only making $15 per hour.

Excuse us if we're content to stay home and make an impact on the world through blogs and social media instead of working for slave wages so we can live some antiquated American dream.

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom:As a 17 year old, we have to deal with a unique situation in American societal history that no previous generations had to contend with. We don't have the access to opportunities that our grandparents did, or the promise of high paying jobs out of high school, or the ability to get a higher education without taking out loans.

I tried to get a summer job, and the only one offered to me was a courier at my step-dad's real estate company. I would have been out walking during the hottest part of the day, and only making $15 per hour.

Excuse us if we're content to stay home and make an impact on the world through blogs and social media instead of working for slave wages so we can live some antiquated American dream.

Wait, $15 per hour? As a college-educated twentysomething, I'll take it!

/we all have to start somewhere//you kinda sound like part of the problem///look at minimum wage////unless you're trolling, then well done

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom:I tried to get a summer job, and the only one offered to me was a courier at my step-dad's real estate company. I would have been out walking during the hottest part of the day, and only making $15 per hour.

You do realize that $15/hour just sucks as a person who has to pay rent, but it's pretty good as a person who can crash in their bedroom?

I was making $8/hour on the grounds crew of a golf course and I made $7,000 in profit (defined as "Bank Account after" - "Bank Account before") after taxes in 18 weeks of summer (Lots of OT of course, mostly because the course flooded every single Saturday in May and I worked lots of 16 hour Saturdays (on OT) and 60 hour weeks getting it fixed up). I'm making $72K/year now and I'm still not at that point. Heck, that's $21K/year in PROFIT. I was making $30/hour + OT in Boston, didn't have a car, was living in a literally rat-infested apartment, and I STILL wasn't making that much in profit (Went up about $5K on the summer, blew $2500 on a new laptop to replace my failing one because I was a CS student).

$15/hour * 16 weeks * 40 hours = $9,600. I'm betting that you could have mooched a ride from your step-dad to work (so that a car was semi-necessary), done the exact same things I did and walked away with about the exact same amount of money I did.

Now long-term, that job would've screwed you hard, since the more money you make, the less financial aid you get in college, but it's a nice temporary bonus.

bborchar:numb3r5ev3n: JorgiX: As a teen, I am getting a kick of this thread. The disconnect between what was reality decades ago and what it is now is immense, but what seems even more alarming is that some people's perception has not changed at all.

To start, cars are not as cheap as they used to be. I do not have empirical data to support Cash for Clunkers as the reason, but it is clear that it is almost impossible to find even the shiattiest of cars for under $1000.

Part-time jobs are not as plentiful as they were before. Sure, you had three jobs in high school and could afford an old car and maybe even a place to live. Well now in a ton of markets you are not competing for those jobs with a bunch of teens, you are also competing with people that were pushed out of their jobs by the recession and have as many years in experience as you living on this planet. I don't blame hiring managers for choosing them since they don't only have more experience, but are a much steadier source of labor when you consider that they might be stuck there for a while and are not leaving for college or the military any time soon. Multiple jobs are almost a thing of the past in some particularly hit regions.

The cost of things has risen astronomically faster than wages. This obviously affects everyone, but young people might be the group that has been hit the hardest. Again, I do not have any empirical data to support this, but it sure seems that way. The cost of college continues to rise, aid is not as comprehensive as it was before, and other things particularly relevant to young people (technology, clothing, student housing, etc.) continue to rise in price. Couple that to the lack of jobs, and the fact that you have never lived to work during the good times and hence you have no savings, and the picture becomes quite dire.

Paid internships are increasingly harder to come by. Even large companies in lucrative sectors like finance and technology keep making intern positions unpaid and s ...

I seriously admire people like you that gut it out the hard way. I really do. I lived in the bad part of an extremely dangerous town and literally had to fight my way out of there. My athletic career has opened chances for me and allowed me to live more comfortably these days, but it's not like anything was handed to me. If anything it was the other way around.

Here is the thing though, you worked a terrible job to get yourself through college. From what I read you went to college BEFORE the bad times, so that terrible job was still there. There is very good chance that AFTER the recession (when you were looking for a job after you graduated) that job was not there anymore and some college kid was left struggling. You know how far $6K would get you in the Bay Area for example? Maybe in the crappiest of apartments, or food on the table, but you have to make a choice. Oh yeah, and no table to put that food on.

A ton of those are either parts, do not list a price, or list the price for monthly payments off a dealer. Pretty sure a very good amount of those are not in driving condition meaning you still have to invest a substantial amount to get it running. Still, point taken. Not every place is as ridiculously expensive as California.

The big difference, which the article failed to touch on, is the cost of car insurance.

Forty years ago, you could buy yourself some cheap junker, work on it yourself or have friends or family work on it to keep it going, using parts from a junk yard if need be. Gas was cheap, and it didn't cost much to keep a car going if you didn't drive it much. Insurance was not mandatory, and so if you were poor, you didn't have any.

Now, the cost of insurance puts a stop to that whole thing for anyone who has little money. If you can only afford a $600 car, how will you afford the $2000+ per year for auto insurance that a young beginning driver (especially male driver) would have to pay? Not to mention the fact that gas is much more expensive than it used to be (even when figuring in inflation).

The first car I bought, in the mid 80's, cost me $150, gas was $1 per gallon, and I didn't need to have insurance. Today's teens don't have that option.

OgreMagi:bbfreak: Hey Subby, go fark yourself. America's youth is the largest unemployed age group in this country, its hard to have the money for a car if you can't afford one. Those that do have jobs, are underemployed, and being paid peanuts. Yet their employers make it pretty impossible to have more than one job, because they want you to be flexible. All of which doesn't really make it possible for you to not only afford a car but climb out of poverty, but screw those people right? I mean, if you didn't go to college you're just a loser who deserves to be a useless peon right Subby? Then you can justify being in debt because of your college degree while you work at a company for the next 30 to 40 years of your life.

The youth of America are being farked, and farked hard. Don't be surprised when they finally get tired of this shiat.

I was going to mention that. Also, those underemployed young workers have crushing student loan debt they now have to pay off. A car is simply not feasible. I blame our school system. Everyone was told, "you're a loser if you don't get a college degree." And for most, the only way to go to college was with a student loan. Meanwhile, that loser who got a job working construction or plumbing just bought a second new car and is taking the family to Europe for their vacation.

This, but they aren't really losers at this point are they? There is real money in blue collar jobs these days. It's a shame that so many people look down on the folks that keep things running.

LowbrowDeluxe:I could take a cab out and home again 5 nights a week for the cost of a car's upkeep, much less payments. But I'm sure the satisfaction of being able to go to the store at 2 am without walking a whole 10 minutes to buy 1 item totally makes up for the costs.

It's great that you have that option. Lots of people don't. I'd love to be able to live without a car but in my rural area we don't have reliable mass transit. The local cab company has one whole cab. The bus still leaves me three miles from work. I've had a car since my first job at sixteen ('70s). As long as I could pay for gas and insurance the parents were good with it.

Maynard says the average cost of a new car is about $30,000, before factoring in car insurance.

Ya, sure when you take high end luxury vehicles and giant SUVs into consideration. The vast majority of people aren't going to be buying a Lexus for their first car... There are plenty of perfectly viable NEW cars for >$15,000.

bbfreak:Hey Subby, go fark yourself. America's youth is the largest unemployed age group in this country, its hard to have the money for a car if you can't afford one. Those that do have jobs, are underemployed, and being paid peanuts. Yet their employers make it pretty impossible to have more than one job, because they want you to be flexible. All of which doesn't really make it possible for you to not only afford a car but climb out of poverty, but screw those people right? I mean, if you didn't go to college you're just a loser who deserves to be a useless peon right Subby? Then you can justify being in debt because of your college degree while you work at a company for the next 30 to 40 years of your life.

The youth of America are being farked, and farked hard. Don't be surprised when they finally get tired of this shiat.

I was going to mention that. Also, those underemployed young workers have crushing student loan debt they now have to pay off. A car is simply not feasible. I blame our school system. Everyone was told, "you're a loser if you don't get a college degree." And for most, the only way to go to college was with a student loan. Meanwhile, that loser who got a job working construction or plumbing just bought a second new car and is taking the family to Europe for their vacation.

Well, if companies don't like paying their employees money, then it's kinda difficult for those employees to purchase goods and services.

One of the causes of the Great Depression (not the only cause, it was a storm of suck) was the factories paying extremely low wages while they pumped out a flood of new fangled luxury goods like electric toasters. The problem was there was too limited of a market to buy those goods because the poor sods who built them couldn't afford one themselves. So they fired the factory workers since no one was buying what they built. The middle class who could afford them also got fired because you don't need pencil pushers and middle managers when you don't have factory workers and aren't selling product. Big circle of economic suck.

So we have the new system of everyone works in fast food. Fortunately, working the register gives you enough money to buy the product so you won't starve. Unfortunately, not much more than that. So we have a new circle of suck.

The board of directors doesn't give a shiat because the value of their stock options just went up 10%, so fark the prolies.

/no, I'm not calling for the people's control of the factor. That's the biggest circle of suck

Mikeyworld:CSB/My first car was $45. A 1949 Plymouth Sedan, six-banger with a slushamatic transmission (manual shift with a torque convertor). It was the same age as me. I was stocking at the local grocery, making minimum wage...$1.75. Gas was about 32¢/ gallon and smokes were 25¢ a pack. I bought one every morning on the way to the bus stop for school. The back seating was large enuf to almost stretch your legs out. It was a hideous flat green, army-looking color. After I graduated high school, I got a real job making $2.73/ hour and moved up to a Dodge Coronet with a a 318cid. It raced against Volkswagens and Opel Kadets, but it was a major panty-dropper. I lived high on the hog until Uncle Sam came and said, "Here's your gun...gimme that guitar".//end CSB

My first gasoline powered vehicles were all of the two wheel variety. I got a moped when I was 15. I bought a Honda 250 when I was 18, and have used some variety of 2 wheeled transport since then. Yes, I have a car, but it is a cheap one, and I rarely use is for more than 2000 miles a year.

E5bie:Voodoo_Stu: Thanks for the answers. I had to look up what Zipcar was, and it doesn't appear to be available in my city. I tend to buy a lot of heavy, bulky groceries at once, so backpacks usually wouldn't work. Personaly shopping carts eh... I might look into that. Be honest, though. Would I look like a hobo? I don't exactly want to get hassled..

Any one put a trailer on a bike?

Babies R Us has them for $99. Those suckers require zero skill to install, and will carry 200lbs of stuff or however much you can pedal with.

Not 200. 70 lbs max. I know, I've done it enough times during my divorce and the post divorce recovery.

70 lbs is about 10 bags worth of groceries. Figure meat is heavy but produce isn't. It works out. You can also pick up panniers, a rear rack and use a backpack. Figure 70 lbs for the trailer, two half racks in the panniers and whatever soft stuff like bread goes in the backpack. All total about 100 lbs of food. You won't be going very fast. Say about 10-12 mph. Not because you can't go faster but because you can't stop for shiat with that much extra weight.

aelat:Another reason often cited is money. Maynard says the average cost of a new car is about $30,000, before factoring in car insurance. Add in the high price of gas in some places and owning a car is simply too expensive for a young person.

If only there were a way for young people to buy a car that wasn't new. Perhaps one that had been driven by a previous owner.

That would be great if cash for clunkers hadnt sent all those cars to the scrapyard. 10 year old (2003!) 100k mileage Honda Civic, at least $5k.

bbfreak:Hey Subby, go fark yourself. America's youth is the largest unemployed age group in this country, its hard to have the money for a car if you can't afford one. Those that do have jobs, are underemployed, and being paid peanuts. Yet their employers make it pretty impossible to have more than one job, because they want you to be flexible. All of which doesn't really make it possible for you to not only afford a car but climb out of poverty, but screw those people right? I mean, if you didn't go to college you're just a loser who deserves to be a useless peon right Subby? Then you can justify being in debt because of your college degree while you work at a company for the next 30 to 40 years of your life.

The youth of America are being farked, and farked hard. Don't be surprised when they finally get tired of this shiat.

While I agree with you. I'd just like to tell a story about my grandfather. He once worked for a company that you would be fired if you owned a car., because the company knew they didn't paying enough to afford one and so they must be stealing from someone. True story,I'm not sure what year that was in.

Thanks for the answers. I had to look up what Zipcar was, and it doesn't appear to be available in my city. I tend to buy a lot of heavy, bulky groceries at once, so backpacks usually wouldn't work. Personaly shopping carts eh... I might look into that. Be honest, though. Would I look like a hobo? I don't exactly want to get hassled..

Another reason often cited is money. Maynard says the average cost of a new car is about $30,000, before factoring in car insurance. Add in the high price of gas in some places and owning a car is simply too expensive for a young person.

Young people don't need brand new cars. Heck, nobody needs a brand new car, but especially if you are just starting to drive. If I remember right, my first car cost $300. It was a 66 Ford Falcon, and I was given a guarantee. He told me "Once you drive it off the lot, if it breaks in half, you get to keep both halves".

I suspect that lack of parking is a fairly major factor that they didn't look into. You can't have a car if you don't have a place to park it at home. These days, a lot more people live in places where they have very limited parking and there isn't room for the kids to have cars.

GhostFish:So much vindictive spite aimed at the age groups with the least amount of money and power. Previous generations stripmined the opportunity out of this country, and now the kids left with the scraps get kicked around and spit on for not taking advantage of all the opportunities that don't exist anymore.

Seems like a good enough distraction. I mean, as the middle class shrinks more and more, who else do they have left to look down upon to blame their troubles on? Can't have them looking in the other direction along the food chain, can we?

I'm going to buy my stepdaughter's first vehicle. A beat to hell truck. She'll pay for gas, I'll teach her to change the oil. I'll pay for the liability insurance. I'm thinking something along the lines of a late 80's Chevy half ton pickup. Preferably with a shiatty paint job, a V-6 and the dents will have dents.

aelat:Another reason often cited is money. Maynard says the average cost of a new car is about $30,000, before factoring in car insurance. Add in the high price of gas in some places and owning a car is simply too expensive for a young person.

If only there were a way for young people to buy a car that wasn't new. Perhaps one that had been driven by a previous owner.

Seriously. Look, if you live in an area where public transportation is awesome, great, you don't need a care. If you live somewhere where it sucks and you need access to an automobile to get around, and you're just bumming rides, get off your lazy ass, earn some money, and buy a used car.

I'm in my 50's. Started out with a 69 Ford Galaxie 500 fastback, 400CI, 4bbl. Gas was 52 cents, 22 gallon tank.It was a used car. Kept it until I got out of college, swapped it for a 3 year old LTD, reliable transportation.Saved, got a 1 year old Ford EXP for fun. Save some more and then started buying Mustangs.Had an 85, 89, 95, 99 and still have my 2011. Start out buying a good used car, not a damn new one.Then, if you want a new one, so be it, but a program car is the best bang for the buck. The minute you drivea new one off the lot, they DROP in price. Urban dwellers in the BIG cities, most of the time don't really"need" a car, but out here in the midwest, you pretty much have to have one.

markie_farkie:I walked to work for 18 months from 82 to 83 to save up for my first car, a used 77 Trans Am (Bandit with gol eagle decals, T-tops, black on black, the whole 9 yards) and it still didn't get me laid.

It must have been the short shorts and knee-high striped socks that doomed me.

My first car was a '66 Mustang that my grandpa and I (mostly my grandpa) restored from the ground up. It didn't get me laid but it was still a biatchin' ride.