I love the right wing dipsh*t brigade who had it their way for 20 years on health care, and health care costs have only gone up since the 1990s. Meanwhile insurance company profits are through the roof.

So finally enough said enough and we get a smidgen of reform. No single payer option, no canadian-style.. but at least we got something.

Now you effing asswits who screamed against doing any reform, despite things having sucked for 20 years, are back in force saying zomg o noes everything is going to hell and its all OBAMA's FAULT.

Its like the war debt. None of it mattered to the blithering right wing idiot class until 1-20-2009. Then suddenly zomg debt debt debt libs libs libs.

Like your causing the Iraq war had nothing to do with it, like the Bush Tax Cuts had nothing to do with it.

Seriously, right wingers, you're the reason America's broke and you're the reason health care reform was barely implemented after a year of screaming by your side. Nobody wants your side in power, yet you keep screaming. The few of you thats left.

Remember folks, $600 billion per year to enable us to blow up sand into more sand and does nothing back home except give us wounded vets to take care of(which the GOP doesn't seem to care about either) and line the pockets of defense contractors is a good use of tax dollars, but $100 billion per year to take care of Americans is the worst socialism to ever socialize.

Fail in Human Form:You know what, I bought into the promise of "Obama Care". I was wrong. All I've seen are premiums go up, my friends who work part time get their hours severely reduced so the companies don't have to offer them care, the co-pay on everything double, and impending fines. The status quo before wasn't sustainable... but this farking sucks.

Ah. Wheras I got money back from the insurance company, saw my rates go down, and no longer had to worry about how in gods name I'd ever get health insurance for my fiance, since she had a stroke (due to a generic of Yaz, which she was taking for medical reasons) about 3 years ago at the age of 23.

Fail in Human Form:You know what, I bought into the promise of "Obama Care". I was wrong. All I've seen are premiums go up, my friends who work part time get their hours severely reduced so the companies don't have to offer them care, the co-pay on everything double, and impending fines. The status quo before wasn't sustainable... but this farking sucks.

meat0918:Remember folks, $600 billion per year to enable us to blow up sand into more sand and does nothing back home except give us wounded vets to take care of(which the GOP doesn't seem to care about either) and line the pockets of defense contractors is a good use of tax dollars, but $100 billion per year to take care of Americans is the worst socialism to ever socialize.

If history is any guide, it works like this:Wounded vet comes back and says,"I sacrificed for this country, send more guys to finish what I couldn't, ooo-rah, Merica!", then the GOP loves him.Wounded vet comes back and says,"So, uh, losing my legs here wasn't part of the deal...I got medical insurance for this shiat, right? And college assistance so I can learn a desk job?", then the GOP could give a fark less.Wounded vet comes back and says,"Okay, that sucked and there's no good reason to send more American boys into that suck. I am now against war, in fact I'm turning Democrat.", then not only does the GOP not care, they'll go out of their way to trivialize it and make up outright slander about it.

Fail in Human Form:You know what, I bought into the promise of "Obama Care". I was wrong. All I've seen are premiums go up, my friends who work part time get their hours severely reduced so the companies don't have to offer them care, the co-pay on everything double, and impending fines. The status quo before wasn't sustainable... but this farking sucks.

It was much better before Obamacare. You know, the time where in my personal experience, my premiums went up 200% in 3 years. Good times.

Fail in Human Form:You know what, I bought into the promise of "Obama Care". I was wrong. All I've seen are premiums go up, my friends who work part time get their hours severely reduced so the companies don't have to offer them care, the co-pay on everything double, and impending fines. The status quo before wasn't sustainable... but this farking sucks.

You are full of sh*t. Histrionics without facts, and Obamacare hasn't even started yet! Just right wing nit wit noise, go eff yourself with a rusty pistol.

clowncar on fire:Duck_of_Doom: clowncar on fire: Nothing he has said hasn't happened although some of it has nothing to do with Obamacare. Let me add: Some docs are getting out of general care due to the increase in work load/ decrease in compensation for those new patients they have to take on.

This is a good point. Can't blame Obamacare because the private insurance companies don't want to pay doctors. And this has been in effect since before Obama came to office. Case in point: my mother's cardiologist. He left the practice he was in, and moved to somewhere that will pay better. He left Fairfield County, CT (a.k.a. one of the richest counties in the US, and very high cost of living) because of their lacking payouts. Granted his story has some Rich People's Problems seasoning, but it illustrates a trend with private insurances. They dictate what they pay doctors, not the other way around. If the doctor's office bills the insurance for $150, the insurance pays $45, take it or leave it. Just because the hospital puts in for a $1,000 Tylenol pill, doesn't mean the hospital sees anywhere near that.

The problem is government insurance will pay a lower flat rate than private insurance and then make healthcare facilities jump through hoops to receive payment. Should a patient complain about the care they received, good luck getting partial payment.

The expensive Tylenol is urban legend- by requesting an itemized bill (most hospitals sell "packages" which are made up of several items expected to be used for a procedure and are sold at flat rate), you can contest individual items you did not use and have them removed from the bill.

The expensive Tylenol is not an urban legend. Time Magazine a few weeks back had a very comprehensive article about the problems associated with healthcare billing in this country. The central problem is that every hospital maintains a pricing structure called the chargemaster which details the prices for every single good or service offered by the hospital. The problem is that the chargemaster bears little resemblence to reality and doesn't have a connection to the actual costs paid by the hospital for the services. As a result, you end up with a $3.00 Tylenol when you can get a bottle of 100 for that price. The chargemaster also tends to result in double or triple billing since you can be charged for the room costs of an operating room along with a tool kit used in the operation and a particular tool in that tool kit when everything should be included in the room costs.

Medicare solves this problem by setting fixed prices for procedures and goods (with the exception of durable medical equipment which still results in crazy overbilling) which actually correspond to the hospital costs plus a certain percentage profit, but private insurance and as a result consumers get screwed. You get your EOB saying that your insurance saved you 30% but that's based off of an inflated price to begin with. And if you have no insurance, you get a bill for thousands of dollars in medical-ease. Yes, it's true that hospitals will negotiate, but how would someone know that and how would they even know where to begin if they can't decipher the coded entries on the itemized receipt.

The simplest solution would be to do away with the chargemaster concept and standardize hospital billing procedures using Medicare as a model. If hospitals were required to abide by fair billing procedures then the whole system would work more effectively. You'd have closer connection to your actual cost of care, fewer chargeoffs and bankruptcies from inability to pay, and improved cost containment.

Fail in Human Form:Generation_D: Fail in Human Form: You know what, I bought into the promise of "Obama Care". I was wrong. All I've seen are premiums go up, my friends who work part time get their hours severely reduced so the companies don't have to offer them care, the co-pay on everything double, and impending fines. The status quo before wasn't sustainable... but this farking sucks.

You are full of sh*t. Histrionics without facts, and Obamacare hasn't even started yet! Just right wing nit wit noise, go eff yourself with a rusty pistol.

You don't know what the fark you're talking about. It's been implemented in stages. The exchanges go into place in '14. I know exactly what I'm talking about.

Right wing troll tards spent a year screwing up health care reform, now the same crowd wants to repeal the few improvements we did get.

I assure you that i am not a conservative, but i will henceforth proceed to spew every conservative talking point as if my brain was hard wired to fox and friends. You must believe that i am in no way a conservative though, my word is my bond.

themindiswatching:It really pisses them off that Obama will be forever known as the president who brought the US universal healthcare, doesn't it?

They've got one more year to try and get rid of it. 2014 is when most of the big stuff swings into action.

Premiums went up slightly, but it was the smallest increase I've seen in years percentage wise (only 1%), plus my benefits expanded to cover vaccinations and improved what they cover for preventative care.

Fail in Human Form:You know what, I bought into the promise of "Obama Care". I was wrong. All I've seen are premiums go up, my friends who work part time get their hours severely reduced so the companies don't have to offer them care, the co-pay on everything double, and impending fines. The status quo before wasn't sustainable... but this farking sucks.

Why do I have the feeling that 90$ of everything you just said is a lie?

Yes, your premiums may have gone up, but... they go up every year, right? Did they, like, triple or something overnight?

And as for your "friends..." highly doubtful. Lots of talk about companies doing the reduced hours to avoid paying Health Care, but... very, very few substantiated cases. Maybe your friends just suck at their jobs?

"Our budget does promote repealing ObamaCare," said Ryan, who was not clear whether his 2014 budget is based on a full repeal...... "I've very confident this is the way to go,"

"Here's my plan. We want to repeal Obamacare. I know we tried like 35 times when we had more Republicans in the HoR, and more Republicans in the Senate, and it failed every time. This time will be different and is in no way just a waste of time in which I'm trying to distract you from the fact that I got nuthin'. I'm not sure if this thing I'm proposing gets rid of all of it, but I know it's the right thing to do, even though I'm not sure exactly what it does."

Fail in Human Form:A Dark Evil Omen: Fail in Human Form: You know what, I bought into the promise of "Obama Care". I was wrong.

1. All I've seen are premiums go up,

You're sure you no longer have a copy of that letter from your HMO? You might want to ask them toemail you a pdf copy so you can check the date and info provided.

http://www.healthcare.gov/law/features/costs/rate-review/index.htmlRate ReviewThe Affordable Care Act creates a Rate Review program in your state to help protect individuals and small businesses from unreasonable health insurance rate increases. Starting on September 1, 2011, health insurers must justify any rate increase of 10% or more before the increase takes effect.

Your insurance company can't raise rates by 10% or more without first explaining its reasons to your state or federal Rate Review program. All explanations will be posted on HealthCare.gov and your Rate Review program will give you a chance to comment on them.

2. my friends who work part time get their hours severely reduced so the companies don't have to offer them care,

www.healthcare.gov/news/brochures/info-for-small-businesses.pdf

page 12:You may be eligible for tax credits to help you pay for your employees' insurance.The credits are as large as 35% today and rise to 50% in 2014.You might qualify if you:1) have low-wage workers,2) pay at least 50% of the premium cost, and3) have up to 25 full-time equivalent employees.You can get more information on this at the IRS website: www.irs.gov/sbhtc.(Beginning in 2014, you will need to buy your company's coverage through theAffordable Insurance Exchange in your State to get the tax credit.)

Forcing employees to a part time schedule may not work out if the employer loses productivework from that employee, but still ends up averaging over 30 hours per week for 3-6 monthsof reporting. Or has them in part time service consistently for more that 750 hours (9 months).

3. the co-pay on everything double

See the answer on point 1 - they can't change rates more than 10% without documented justification.

, and impending fines.

What fines are you referring to?

Everything I just said is from first hand experience. Please tell me where I'm wrong.

Fail in Human Form:cameroncrazy1984: Fail in Human Form: Not a clue. The HMO doesn't send me a letter explaining every detail of their business amazingly.

Well then how do you know they increased their rates because of the new law?

I got a letter saying so and a letter explaining the percent paid on premiums requirement. Not a detailed list of why.

You're serious? Really? You got a letter explaining why your premiums went up from the HMO, and you believed them?

OK then.

Here's one plausible explanation. The accountants with your HMO did some calculations based on the profit limit in the affordable health care act, played with some costs, and then figured out the maximum you could be charged.

They then charge it.

Of course, rather than writing into their letter that they're all greedy SOBs, they'll just write and say - because ObummerCare.

Depending on where you live in Ohio, that will certainly deflect the blame and rile up the base for those pesky midterm elections.

And if you look at it from their slanted point of view, yes the affordable health care act caused your premiums to be raised. They saw a way to make more money in a constrained market (it's them or BC/BS), stay within the guidelines, and blame it on someone else.

Fail in Human Form:You know what, I bought into the promise of "Obama Care". I was wrong. All I've seen are premiums go up, my friends who work part time get their hours severely reduced so the companies don't have to offer them care, the co-pay on everything double, and impending fines. The status quo before wasn't sustainable... but this farking sucks.

LibertyHiller:Biatching about the failure of Obamacare when it's still in early implementation is like going to a birthday dinner and insisting that you want cake while everyone else is working on their salad.

At this point, more like seeing the baker come in the door with the cake and trying to punch him in the face for daring to bake a chocolate cake when everybody knows you prefer coconut. Then when he reminds you that you're not the birthday boy and so don't get to to decide the cake flavor, you kick him in the crotch and demand a strawberry cake. The baker successfully gets the cake to the table, which you then attempt to flip while screaming that you have the freedom of speech to demand vanilla cake, goddamnit! Look, what can't you understand about the fact that last year's pineapple upsidedown cake was perfectly fine and there's no reason to change it? The people want dobash, you tyrant! THE CAKE IS A LIE!

Fail in Human Form:You know what, I bought into the promise of "Obama Care". I was wrong. All I've seen are premiums go up, my friends who work part time get their hours severely reduced so the companies don't have to offer them care, the co-pay on everything double, and impending fines. The status quo before wasn't sustainable... but this farking sucks.

Premiums and co-pays are higher, and people working part-time don't have health insurance; and the Obamacare exchanges haven't been implemented yet.So worst case for Obamacare is that everything is going along the exact same trend it was before, no?

nmrsnr:Again? Hasn't the House already repealed it like 5 times? Let it go man, it's gone.

I think the difference this time is the Obamacare-Benghazi Connection which all the all of the GOP politicians' constituents are asking them about whenever they go and whenever they see one but cannot name for a never ending string of reasons.

Fail in Human Form:LeoffDaGrate: Fail in Human Form: You know what, I bought into the promise of "Obama Care". I was wrong. All I've seen are premiums go up, my friends who work part time get their hours severely reduced so the companies don't have to offer them care, the co-pay on everything double, and impending fines. The status quo before wasn't sustainable... but this farking sucks.

Why do I have the feeling that 90$ of everything you just said is a lie?

Yes, your premiums may have gone up, but... they go up every year, right? Did they, like, triple or something overnight?

And as for your "friends..." highly doubtful. Lots of talk about companies doing the reduced hours to avoid paying Health Care, but... very, very few substantiated cases. Maybe your friends just suck at their jobs?

My premiums didn't go up every year, it was closer to every other. They have since doubled, and I'm a single man in good health. As for the rest, go fark yourself with a rusty fork. I said the status quo was bad.

Biatching about the failure of Obamacare when it's still in early implementation is like going to a birthday dinner and insisting that you want cake while everyone else is working on their salad.

Fail in Human Form:You know what, I bought into the promise of "Obama Care". I was wrong. All I've seen are premiums go up, my friends who work part time get their hours severely reduced so the companies don't have to offer them care, the co-pay on everything double, and impending fines. The status quo before wasn't sustainable... but this farking sucks.

I don't know what state you live in, but here in CA, once our state starts its insurance exchange, my family of 4 can get coverage for $124/month at my current income level. This will also be the first time my wife will have had insurance in more than 10 years do to a pre-existing condition.

So yeah, Obamacare is pretty f'ing great from my POV. Would I prefer true single payer? You bet. But this is certainly an improvement.

Fail in Human Form:Everything I just said is from first hand experience. Please tell me where I'm wrong.

My rates stayed the same this year because Obamacare capped the amount of profit that my insurance company was allowed to take from my premium.The rebate from last year was applied to my account this year.

Fail in Human Form:My premiums didn't go up every year, it was closer to every other. They have since doubled, and I'm a single man in good health. As for the rest, go fark yourself with a rusty fork. I said the status quo was bad

Fail in Human Form:A Dark Evil Omen: Fail in Human Form: You know what, I bought into the promise of "Obama Care". I was wrong. All I've seen are premiums go up, my friends who work part time get their hours severely reduced so the companies don't have to offer them care, the co-pay on everything double, and impending fines. The status quo before wasn't sustainable... but this farking sucks.

Your name is accurate.

Everything I just said is from first hand experience. Please tell me where I'm wrong.

What a shock, the Republicans pass another poison pill piece of legislation that they know will never get passed just so they can say that they're doing something and the Senate needs to get of their asses. I'm surprised it doesn't defund Planned Parenthood, NPR, and PBS.

Graffito:Duck_of_Doom: Just because the hospital puts in for a $1,000 Tylenol pill, doesn't mean the hospital sees anywhere near that.

Nor should they. I'm waiting for someone to bring up the hospital chargemaster scam. While we are hating on insurance companies, the "non-profit" hospitals are price-gouging sick people.

My post-op overnight stay in the hospital was billed at $17,000.00.The insurance "discount" was ($15,000.00) leaving a $2000.00 bill.With a 90/10 split insurance paid 1800.00 and I paid $200.00.

My insurance, BC/BS, is the largest insurer in my area. No hospital could stay in business if they were truly writing off 88% of their costs. The only thing that makes sense is that the $17000.00 price tag is completely made up. I'm guessing that the real cost of my 1 night stay was closer to the $2000.00.

Any poor slob trying to pay out of his HSA would have to pony-up the exorbitant $17000.00 charge.

No, you would pay the negotiated rate of $2000.

HSAs usually have a large deductible. Around here (SW Ohio) $3000 deductibles tend to be fairly common. In that case, you'd be responsible for the $2000 allowable, and still have $1000 remaining on your deductible for the year.

Also, regarding non-profit hospitals: the fact that they are non-profit does not mean they are benevolent angels. Many of them are making lots of money, tax free. If you'd like to peek at your local non-profit hospital's dirty laundry, look at their Form 990. Here's a free site; the most recent available forms are from 2011:

Fail in Human Form:You know what, I bought into the promise of "Obama Care". I was wrong. All I've seen are premiums go up, my friends who work part time get their hours severely reduced so the companies don't have to offer them care, the co-pay on everything double, and impending fines. The status quo before wasn't sustainable... but this farking sucks.

clowncar on fire:and the knowlege that they can cut me off the insurance tit the day it looks like I might actually need my insurance for other than my annual strep throat/allergy induced eye infection

Nothing new about that. Insurance companies have been dicking people over that way since insurance existed.

My step Dad had been paying into his insurance for 30 years. He gets cancer and they dropped him immediately. Treatment ate up almost all of his retirement money. Had nothing to do with Obama.

Nemo's Brother:LeoffDaGrate: Fail in Human Form: You know what, I bought into the promise of "Obama Care". I was wrong. All I've seen are premiums go up, my friends who work part time get their hours severely reduced so the companies don't have to offer them care, the co-pay on everything double, and impending fines. The status quo before wasn't sustainable... but this farking sucks.

Why do I have the feeling that 90$ of everything you just said is a lie?

Yes, your premiums may have gone up, but... they go up every year, right? Did they, like, triple or something overnight?

And as for your "friends..." highly doubtful. Lots of talk about companies doing the reduced hours to avoid paying Health Care, but... very, very few substantiated cases. Maybe your friends just suck at their jobs?

Crazy Lee:You do understand, don't you, that the Reagan Signed EMTAL of `86 (emergency room must treat regardless of ability to pay) has been adding ~$1000, for a family of 4, through increased private insurance premiums (somebody had to eat the cost of the most poorly implemented `socialized' medicine program EVER -

Oh oh, you must have missed the recent comedy wherein a prominent Republican outright said things along the lines of, "We don't have a setting across this country where if you don't have insurance, we just say to you, 'Tough luck, you're going to die when you have your heart attack," No, you go to the hospital, you get treated, you get care, and it's paid for, either by charity, the government or by the hospital."

Thus meaning that the poor can either be charity cases, have their tabs picked up by the government (but ONLY for emergency rescue, no mention of preventative care or care for injuries that are crippling but not immediately life-threatening, so it's not socialism then, you see), or make private companies eat the cost whether they want to or not.

Fail in Human Form:cameroncrazy1984: Fail in Human Form: Not a clue. The HMO doesn't send me a letter explaining every detail of their business amazingly.

Well then how do you know they increased their rates because of the new law?

I got a letter saying so and a letter explaining the percent paid on premiums requirement. Not a detailed list of why.

So, if they didn't tell you why they changed your rates, why did you assume it was due to the partial implementation of Obamacare? I mean, you do understand that cause and effect are a wee bit more complex than Aristotle suggested?

Then the king will say to those at his right hand, "Come, you that are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me."

Fail in Human Form:Ishidan: Fail in Human Form:there is no "public option" so the exchanges are going to be private companies.

And why is this, again?

The Republicans. I'm not arguing who farked up the bill, I'm looking at the bill AS IT IS, from my perspective.

Then you should be a) supporting further changes to the health care system, and b) organizing your workplace and working with your friends to organize theirs. Drastic cuts in hours and benefits is and has been the norm for years and is neither caused by nor particularly exacerbated, writ large, by the ACA. The only way to fight back against that, realistically, is to fight yourself instead of asking Washington to do it for you; even if single-payer healthcare were passed, you don't think there would be more of this same crap from some other direction that the capitalists blamed on SOCIALISM!!!!! and laughed while they pocketed the difference? Because that's what's happening now..

amyldoanitrite: Fail in Human Form: You know what, I bought into the promise of "Obama Care". I was wrong. All I've seen are premiums go up, my friends who work part time get their hours severely reduced so the companies don't have to offer them care, the co-pay on everything double, and impending fines. The status quo before wasn't sustainable... but this farking sucks.

I don't know what state you live in, but here in CA, once our state starts its insurance exchange, my family of 4 can get coverage for $124/month at my current income level. This will also be the first time my wife will have had insurance in more than 10 years do to a pre-existing condition.

So yeah, Obamacare is pretty f'ing great from my POV. Would I prefer true single payer? You bet. But this is certainly an improvement.

Ohio and I pay more than that for just myself.

Evidently you are doing something horribly wrong. Might I suggest reexamining your current options and making some changes to your Health Insurance. Obamacare seems to be working out pretty well for most people effected by it. You seem to be on the far end of that bell curve and so are going to have to devote some time to changing that. Try going over your Health Insurance payments line by line, you may be paying for things you don't really need. Also shop around for other Health Insurance providers in your area, you might find a better deal.

NeverDrunk23:Soup4Bonnie: Yes, spend the thread discussing how awful Obamacare is with an obvious idiot rather than look at the steaming pile of shiat Ryan is again trying to warm up and serve to seniors.

Bueno.

Odds are this was the actual goal of the post.

Well this thread does prove one thing: The Republicans are not changing their tactics.

Fail in Human Form:A Dark Evil Omen: Fail in Human Form: You know what, I bought into the promise of "Obama Care". I was wrong. All I've seen are premiums go up, my friends who work part time get their hours severely reduced so the companies don't have to offer them care, the co-pay on everything double, and impending fines. The status quo before wasn't sustainable... but this farking sucks.

Your name is accurate.

Everything I just said is from first hand experience. Please tell me where I'm wrong.

Graffito:Parthenogenetic: No, you would pay the negotiated rate of $2000.

I don't think so. Why would the hospital give the BC/BS rate to someone with an HSA? Where does the $17000.00 charge come from in the first place?

You cannot create or contribute to an HSA without it being linked to a high-deductible health plan. It is possible to have an HSA and not have health insurance, if you previously had an HDHPwith an HSA and then subsequently lost the health plan, but retained the accumulated savings in the HSA.

If that is the situation you were describing, yes you are indeed screwed. However, most people with an HSA will also have the health insurance policy that is a prerequisite for its creation, and therefore are charged the rates that were negotiated between the provider and your insurer.

Fail in Human Form:amyldoanitrite: Fail in Human Form: You know what, I bought into the promise of "Obama Care". I was wrong. All I've seen are premiums go up, my friends who work part time get their hours severely reduced so the companies don't have to offer them care, the co-pay on everything double, and impending fines. The status quo before wasn't sustainable... but this farking sucks.

I don't know what state you live in, but here in CA, once our state starts its insurance exchange, my family of 4 can get coverage for $124/month at my current income level. This will also be the first time my wife will have had insurance in more than 10 years do to a pre-existing condition.

So yeah, Obamacare is pretty f'ing great from my POV. Would I prefer true single payer? You bet. But this is certainly an improvement.

Ohio and I pay more than that for just myself.

I'm in Ohio, too. My insurance didn't increase for the first time in decades. My benefits didn't decrease, either.

cameroncrazy1984:clowncar on fire: cameroncrazy1984: clowncar on fire: then make healthcare facilities jump through hoops to receive payment.

What? By all accounts Medicare is easier to deal with than private insurance.

Not to the medical facilities. They are tying it to patient satisfaction ratings. And, as everyone knows, patients are the happiest people in the world and are always happy to say nothing but good about their hospital stay.

Maybe those hospitals could be better, if that's the case.

Indeed. People will complain if the floor in their room has blood on it, the sheets smell musty, or the room is dirty. They won't usually complain about the care unless the care is lacking.

There is also the subset of humans that will complain about anything, because they want comps/bill nullification, or they are miserable SOBs. This is unfortunate, but not exclusive to medical care.

cameroncrazy1984:clowncar on fire: cameroncrazy1984: clowncar on fire: then make healthcare facilities jump through hoops to receive payment.

What? By all accounts Medicare is easier to deal with than private insurance.

Not to the medical facilities. They are tying it to patient satisfaction ratings. And, as everyone knows, patients are the happiest people in the world and are always happy to say nothing but good about their hospital stay.

Maybe those hospitals could be better, if that's the case.

Some people forget that the efforts the staff made in repairing their body and instead focus on that damned iv pump that alarmed everytime they lowered the bed their bed on the their iv line during their stay at the Medical Motel. Most forget they were not in a fancy hotel (dispite the best possible environment we provide them) and actually biatch about the service (food, television, interruptions by medical staff, being moved floor to floor between radiology, emergency room, ccu, etc). We are not a hotel but that does not matter when the ratings come in.

clowncar on fire:Nothing he has said hasn't happened although some of it has nothing to do with Obamacare. Let me add: Some docs are getting out of general care due to the increase in work load/ decrease in compensation for those new patients they have to take on.

This is a good point. Can't blame Obamacare because the private insurance companies don't want to pay doctors. And this has been in effect since before Obama came to office. Case in point: my mother's cardiologist. He left the practice he was in, and moved to somewhere that will pay better. He left Fairfield County, CT (a.k.a. one of the richest counties in the US, and very high cost of living) because of their lacking payouts. Granted his story has some Rich People's Problems seasoning, but it illustrates a trend with private insurances. They dictate what they pay doctors, not the other way around. If the doctor's office bills the insurance for $150, the insurance pays $45, take it or leave it. Just because the hospital puts in for a $1,000 Tylenol pill, doesn't mean the hospital sees anywhere near that.

Fail in Human Form:You know what, I bought into the promise of "Obama Care". I was wrong. All I've seen are premiums go up, my friends who work part time get their hours severely reduced so the companies don't have to offer them care, the co-pay on everything double, and impending fines. The status quo before wasn't sustainable... but this farking sucks.

It's weird, I was against it but as an employer my costs have gone down and Ive hired two additional staff members in the past year.

amyldoanitrite:Fail in Human Form: You know what, I bought into the promise of "Obama Care". I was wrong. All I've seen are premiums go up, my friends who work part time get their hours severely reduced so the companies don't have to offer them care, the co-pay on everything double, and impending fines. The status quo before wasn't sustainable... but this farking sucks.

I don't know what state you live in, but here in CA, once our state starts its insurance exchange, my family of 4 can get coverage for $124/month at my current income level. This will also be the first time my wife will have had insurance in more than 10 years do to a pre-existing condition.

So yeah, Obamacare is pretty f'ing great from my POV. Would I prefer true single payer? You bet. But this is certainly an improvement.

Wow, that is definitely better than the 2k or whatever a month some Farkers were lamenting a couple years back. But for reference in the socialist texasshole of Canada, Alberta the basic coverage is zero $. Awhile back it used to be 44$ for a family a month for basic health coverage which for some reason doesn't include dental, drugs or eyewear. That comes from supplemental insurance that came out to 90$ total this year./2$ deductible for prescriptions//had to get several month's worth of Fragmin, 1400$ a month... still 2$///no one wanted to answer the question "What would happen if I had no drug plan and couldn't afford the drug?"

Fail in Human Form:cameroncrazy1984: Fail in Human Form: Ohio and I pay more than that for just myself.

So, again, wait until the exchanges go in.

Also, Ohio must suck. I pay $44 a month for myself.

Honestly, I don't see it improving much with the exchanges but I hope I'm proved wrong. I understand it has helped some people but here's my question. When you look at it from my perspective (and those I know personally), and very tight budget, how much more should I be willing give up for another's benefit? I don't say that as an evil "screw'em all" conservative. I'm honestly asking.

Well, why don't you sit down and figure out what you were paying before every time you had to go to the ER to cover the people who were kicked off any insurance ever because of pre-existing conditions? And then compare it to the projected future rates and your rates now?

Odds are great you aren't, in the long run, sacrificing a damn thing. In fact, you're probably making out like a bandit.

/This is why the 'I can't do the right thing because MONEY!!!111!' argument is usually so stupid. Doing the right thing usually saves you a fark-ton in the long run, so all you've done is make yourself sound like an utter tool.

Fail in Human Form:You know what, I bought into the promise of "Obama Care". I was wrong. All I've seen are premiums go up, my friends who work part time get their hours severely reduced so the companies don't have to offer them care, the co-pay on everything double, and impending fines. The status quo before wasn't sustainable... but this farking sucks.

Those are the death throes of the old way. Obamacare fully ramps up next year. You're talking about a massive change to the healthcare infrastructure. Give it a minute to start firing on all cylinders.

LordOfThePings:cameroncrazy1984: The American public is so hungry to repeal Obamacare that the re-elected the guy who signed it.

Instead of the guy who first implemented it at the state level and then spent most of his campaign saying he'd repeal Obamacare as his first act in office.

FTFY

If one of the folks running for HOA president was the first in the neighborhood to get an in-ground pool, but says the first thing they'll do when elected is ban the installation or use of in-ground pools, you don't vote for them if you want to keep your pool.

gaspode:Fail in Human Form: A Dark Evil Omen: Fail in Human Form: You know what, I bought into the promise of "Obama Care". I was wrong. All I've seen are premiums go up, my friends who work part time get their hours severely reduced so the companies don't have to offer them care, the co-pay on everything double, and impending fines. The status quo before wasn't sustainable... but this farking sucks.

Your name is accurate.

Everything I just said is from first hand experience. Please tell me where I'm wrong.

Yeah none of those things have happened to you or anyone you know. You are a lying sack of shiat, begone from this place and bother decent folks no more.

I don't know, in reading his posts I don't think he is a liar, it sounds like someone he listens to is a derper and he isn't educated enough to know why that person is wrong/lying.

Fail in Human Form:A Dark Evil Omen: Fail in Human Form: You know what, I bought into the promise of "Obama Care". I was wrong. All I've seen are premiums go up, my friends who work part time get their hours severely reduced so the companies don't have to offer them care, the co-pay on everything double, and impending fines. The status quo before wasn't sustainable... but this farking sucks.

Your name is accurate.

Everything I just said is from first hand experience. Please tell me where I'm wrong.

Yeah none of those things have happened to you or anyone you know. You are a lying sack of shiat, begone from this place and bother decent folks no more.

Fail in Human Form:You know what, I bought into the promise of "Obama Care". I was wrong. All I've seen are premiums go up, my friends who work part time get their hours severely reduced so the companies don't have to offer them care, the co-pay on everything double, and impending fines. The status quo before wasn't sustainable... but this farking sucks.

Wait, so your company decided to cut hours in order to save money and that's Obamacare's fault? What are you, 5? "If you hadn't put the cookie jar where I could reach it, I wouldn't have snuck some cookies before dinner. It's YOUR fault I ate those cookies!"

Fail in Human Form:cameroncrazy1984: Fail in Human Form: Generation_D: JesusJuice: Fail in Human Form: You know what, I bought into the promise of "Obama Care". I was wrong. All I've seen are premiums go up, my friends who work part time get their hours severely reduced so the companies don't have to offer them care, the co-pay on everything double, and impending fines. The status quo before wasn't sustainable... but this farking sucks.

Paid shill's gonna shill.

Pretty much this. Or the worlds most incompetent employee when it comes to his own health care, who knows or cares.

Vague reasoning, no examples, just "it sucks now and this is why" without any citation.

Goin on my ignore, have a nice life troll.

Right, everyone who expresses their own concerns is a troll or a shill. You won't see this but I'm glad you put me on ignore asshole.

Fail in Human Form:You know what, I bought into the promise of "Obama Care". I was wrong. All I've seen are premiums go up, my friends who work part time get their hours severely reduced so the companies don't have to offer them care, the co-pay on everything double, and impending fines. The status quo before wasn't sustainable... but this farking sucks.

Boo hoo. If you have to pay more in premiums or co-pays so that two other Americans can have health insurance and not die of disease because they can't pay, I'm okay with that. If a little discomfort for you saves someone else's life, I'm okay with that. You were not the target population for Obamacare. It's not just about you. Biatching about what you have to give up so that others can have something they need is Republicanism 101.

The horrors of the healthcare system prior to Obamacare were very, very real, even if they didn't effect you. Having your insurance cancel you when you get sick. Not being able to even get insurance because you had asthma as a child (pre-existing). Services being denied and people literally left to die. You may have had it great with your health insurance before Obamacare, but other people are dead because of it. Again, it's not just about you.

Fail in Human Form:amyldoanitrite: Fail in Human Form: You know what, I bought into the promise of "Obama Care". I was wrong. All I've seen are premiums go up, my friends who work part time get their hours severely reduced so the companies don't have to offer them care, the co-pay on everything double, and impending fines. The status quo before wasn't sustainable... but this farking sucks.

I don't know what state you live in, but here in CA, once our state starts its insurance exchange, my family of 4 can get coverage for $124/month at my current income level. This will also be the first time my wife will have had insurance in more than 10 years do to a pre-existing condition.

So yeah, Obamacare is pretty f'ing great from my POV. Would I prefer true single payer? You bet. But this is certainly an improvement.

Fail in Human Form:You know what, I bought into the promise of "Obama Care". I was wrong. All I've seen are premiums go up, my friends who work part time get their hours severely reduced so the companies don't have to offer them care, the co-pay on everything double, and impending fines. The status quo before wasn't sustainable... but this farking sucks.

Yeah it was soo much better when people with pre-existing illness couldn't buy insurance at any price.

You friends who work part-time will now qualify for Medicaid unless their State's Governor is one of the few jack-holes who prefer to side with the Tea-Party than the American public (also assuming they are not very wealthy part-timers).

The best part about "Obama Care" is that is it moving us closer to single payer. Lots of hurdles to overcome, but it's a start.

Nemo's Brother:LeoffDaGrate: Fail in Human Form: You know what, I bought into the promise of "Obama Care". I was wrong. All I've seen are premiums go up, my friends who work part time get their hours severely reduced so the companies don't have to offer them care, the co-pay on everything double, and impending fines. The status quo before wasn't sustainable... but this farking sucks.

Why do I have the feeling that 90$ of everything you just said is a lie?

Yes, your premiums may have gone up, but... they go up every year, right? Did they, like, triple or something overnight?

And as for your "friends..." highly doubtful. Lots of talk about companies doing the reduced hours to avoid paying Health Care, but... very, very few substantiated cases. Maybe your friends just suck at their jobs?

A republican governor cuts part-time state employees hours and blames it on Obamacare. Have you considered the possibilities that he either didn't have to do that and just wanted something to bash Barack with, or that he's just trying to privatize some of their functions?

Much like Fail's insurance company, saying Obamacare made you do something don't necessarily make it so.

Fail in Human Form:Generation_D: JesusJuice: Fail in Human Form: You know what, I bought into the promise of "Obama Care". I was wrong. All I've seen are premiums go up, my friends who work part time get their hours severely reduced so the companies don't have to offer them care, the co-pay on everything double, and impending fines. The status quo before wasn't sustainable... but this farking sucks.

Paid shill's gonna shill.

Pretty much this. Or the worlds most incompetent employee when it comes to his own health care, who knows or cares.

Vague reasoning, no examples, just "it sucks now and this is why" without any citation.

Goin on my ignore, have a nice life troll.

Right, everyone who expresses their own concerns is a troll or a shill. You won't see this but I'm glad you put me on ignore asshole.

It's possible you're every bit as stupid as you appear to be, but I prefer to believe that someone's paying you. Welcome to my ignore list.

Ishidan:Fail in Human Form:I no longer have the letter and they didn't call it "Obamacare" they called it the Affordable Care Act.

Of course they did. The Affordable Care Act is its official name. "Obamacare" is what Republicans call it so they can oppose it with a straight face. Remember, if there's one thing that politicians are good at, it's naming their bills something that sounds good on the surface.

And in ten years when everyone sees that it's an improvement they'll attempt to go back to calling it the Affordable Care Act. Because otherwise they'd be pushing for a voucher system to replace Johnsoncare and privatization of Roosevelt Security.

Fail in Human Form:Generation_D: JesusJuice: Fail in Human Form: You know what, I bought into the promise of "Obama Care". I was wrong. All I've seen are premiums go up, my friends who work part time get their hours severely reduced so the companies don't have to offer them care, the co-pay on everything double, and impending fines. The status quo before wasn't sustainable... but this farking sucks.

Paid shill's gonna shill.

Pretty much this. Or the worlds most incompetent employee when it comes to his own health care, who knows or cares.

Vague reasoning, no examples, just "it sucks now and this is why" without any citation.

Goin on my ignore, have a nice life troll.

Right, everyone who expresses their own concerns is a troll or a shill. You won't see this but I'm glad you put me on ignore asshole.

Generation_D:JesusJuice: Fail in Human Form: You know what, I bought into the promise of "Obama Care". I was wrong. All I've seen are premiums go up, my friends who work part time get their hours severely reduced so the companies don't have to offer them care, the co-pay on everything double, and impending fines. The status quo before wasn't sustainable... but this farking sucks.

Paid shill's gonna shill.

Pretty much this. Or the worlds most incompetent employee when it comes to his own health care, who knows or cares.

Vague reasoning, no examples, just "it sucks now and this is why" without any citation.

Goin on my ignore, have a nice life troll.

Right, everyone who expresses their own concerns is a troll or a shill. You won't see this but I'm glad you put me on ignore asshole.

JesusJuice:Fail in Human Form: You know what, I bought into the promise of "Obama Care". I was wrong. All I've seen are premiums go up, my friends who work part time get their hours severely reduced so the companies don't have to offer them care, the co-pay on everything double, and impending fines. The status quo before wasn't sustainable... but this farking sucks.

Paid shill's gonna shill.

Pretty much this. Or the worlds most incompetent employee when it comes to his own health care, who knows or cares.

Vague reasoning, no examples, just "it sucks now and this is why" without any citation.

Soup4Bonnie:Ryan said his budget, like his plan last year, would propose giving new Medicare beneficiaries, now younger than age 55, the option of purchasing private insurance with a government subsidy instead of the traditional Medicare plan.

Vouchers. Again.

More vouchers and another attempt at repealing PPACA.Maybe we'll get lucky and the republicans will hold their breath long enough that their voters start to turn blue.

Well Obamacare has worked great for me. I'm on the pre-existing condition plan. My premiums went up (from 0 to $296 a month) but overall my medical costs are down because, you know, I actually have insurance now.

I actually was diagnosed when I was on my school's insurance plan. I paid $200 a month at that time (2008-10) and it only covered $1000 worth of prescription costs for the year. (My prescription at the time cost $1500 a month) The plan I'm on now covers all prescription costs above the deductible with just a $30 copay.It's funny how superior Obamacare is to private insurance.

Fail in Human Form:cameroncrazy1984: Fail in Human Form: cameroncrazy1984: Fail in Human Form: Not a clue. The HMO doesn't send me a letter explaining every detail of their business amazingly.

Well then how do you know they increased their rates because of the new law?

I got a letter saying so and a letter explaining the percent paid on premiums requirement. Not a detailed list of why.

So, really what you're saying is that the insurance company lies to you by saying that Obamacare forced them to raise their rates and you believe them for no apparent reason

I'm basing my opinion on the data provided to me. How do you base yours?

It really sounds like you've got the shiattiest HMO ever. Or you fail at reading comprehension.Perhaps you could scan and post the letter in this thread?You know, the one in which they explain they raised your rates because of Obamacare.

Fail in Human Form:A Dark Evil Omen: Fail in Human Form: Ishidan: Fail in Human Form:there is no "public option" so the exchanges are going to be private companies.

And why is this, again?

The Republicans. I'm not arguing who farked up the bill, I'm looking at the bill AS IT IS, from my perspective.

Then you should be a) supporting further changes to the health care system, and b) organizing your workplace and working with your friends to organize theirs. Drastic cuts in hours and benefits is and has been the norm for years and is neither caused by nor particularly exacerbated, writ large, by the ACA. The only way to fight back against that, realistically, is to fight yourself instead of asking Washington to do it for you; even if single-payer healthcare were passed, you don't think there would be more of this same crap from some other direction that the capitalists blamed on SOCIALISM!!!!! and laughed while they pocketed the difference? Because that's what's happening now..

a) I dob) We get told what are options are (mention the U word and you're out the door)c) I consider myself liberal but not "progressive" as the current D's policy is called. Myself? I'm a man without a part and I say a pox on both their houses. I don't like having to picking which sets of my rights I want to support based on two parties beholden to the banks.

Talk to your co-workers outside of work about organization. You do realize that it is illegal for employers to fire people or threaten their jobs for trying to organize, right? If that is really a thing and not just a scary story the company has convinced you to tell each other you have a strong basis for an unfair labor practices suit.

As for me, I am an anarchist and I don't support either - or any - political party, but I can objectively look at policies to determine better/worse based on facts and data instead of campfire stories or scaremongering from people who have a financial interest in keeping me scared. If you dislike both parties, then that's all the more reason to organize and get some actual self-determination.

Fail in Human Form:Brass_Robo: amyldoanitrite: Fail in Human Form: You know what, I bought into the promise of "Obama Care". I was wrong. All I've seen are premiums go up, my friends who work part time get their hours severely reduced so the companies don't have to offer them care, the co-pay on everything double, and impending fines. The status quo before wasn't sustainable... but this farking sucks.

I don't know what state you live in, but here in CA, once our state starts its insurance exchange, my family of 4 can get coverage for $124/month at my current income level. This will also be the first time my wife will have had insurance in more than 10 years do to a pre-existing condition.

So yeah, Obamacare is pretty f'ing great from my POV. Would I prefer true single payer? You bet. But this is certainly an improvement.

Ohio and I pay more than that for just myself.

Evidently you are doing something horribly wrong. Might I suggest reexamining your current options and making some changes to your Health Insurance. Obamacare seems to be working out pretty well for most people effected by it. You seem to be on the far end of that bell curve and so are going to have to devote some time to changing that. Try going over your Health Insurance payments line by line, you may be paying for things you don't really need. Also shop around for other Health Insurance providers in your area, you might find a better deal.

I'm with a local HMO. My other option is BC/BS (given who has deals with the local hospitals) with far less coverage and only marginally better prices.

I have a question: Why are you convinced that Obamacare is why your rates have increased? Did you get a letter from your insurance provider saying, "We're raising your rates because OBAMACARE!!!", or are you just making assumptions based on the idea that the increases happened after portions of the ACA were implemented, therefore any increase is a direct result of those portions of the ACA?

ilambiquated:NeverDrunk23: Soup4Bonnie: Yes, spend the thread discussing how awful Obamacare is with an obvious idiot rather than look at the steaming pile of shiat Ryan is again trying to warm up and serve to seniors.

Bueno.

Odds are this was the actual goal of the post.

Well this thread does prove one thing: The Republicans are not changing their tactics.

They have "governed" in 2013 as if it was 2010. And it'll lose them 2014-2022 at least.

amyldoanitrite:Fail in Human Form: You know what, I bought into the promise of "Obama Care". I was wrong. All I've seen are premiums go up, my friends who work part time get their hours severely reduced so the companies don't have to offer them care, the co-pay on everything double, and impending fines. The status quo before wasn't sustainable... but this farking sucks.

I don't know what state you live in, but here in CA, once our state starts its insurance exchange, my family of 4 can get coverage for $124/month at my current income level. This will also be the first time my wife will have had insurance in more than 10 years do to a pre-existing condition.

So yeah, Obamacare is pretty f'ing great from my POV. Would I prefer true single payer? You bet. But this is certainly an improvement.

Fail in Human Form:You know what, I bought into the promise of "Obama Care". I was wrong. All I've seen are premiums go up, my friends who work part time get their hours severely reduced so the companies don't have to offer them care, the co-pay on everything double, and impending fines. The status quo before wasn't sustainable... but this farking sucks.

fuhfuhfuh:Fail in Human Form: You know what, I bought into the promise of "Obama Care". I was wrong. All I've seen are premiums go up, my friends who work part time get their hours severely reduced so the companies don't have to offer them care, the co-pay on everything double, and impending fines. The status quo before wasn't sustainable... but this farking sucks.

It was much better before Obamacare. You know, the time where in my personal experience, my premiums went up 200% in 3 years. Good times.

/Anecdote fight

My premiums went up 500% because of Obamacare and my employer fired me because Obama taxed the rich. Also, my Papa Johns pizza is way too expensive and I can no longer afford to eat. Luckily, I don't have to worry about any of this because a death panel has already sentenced me to execution.

meat0918:Premiums went up slightly, but it was the smallest increase I've seen in years percentage wise (only 1%), plus my benefits expanded to cover vaccinations and improved what they cover for preventative care.

Generation_D:Fail in Human Form: You know what, I bought into the promise of "Obama Care". I was wrong. All I've seen are premiums go up, my friends who work part time get their hours severely reduced so the companies don't have to offer them care, the co-pay on everything double, and impending fines. The status quo before wasn't sustainable... but this farking sucks.

You are full of sh*t. Histrionics without facts, and Obamacare hasn't even started yet! Just right wing nit wit noise, go eff yourself with a rusty pistol.

A Dark Evil Omen:Fail in Human Form: You know what, I bought into the promise of "Obama Care". I was wrong. All I've seen are premiums go up, my friends who work part time get their hours severely reduced so the companies don't have to offer them care, the co-pay on everything double, and impending fines. The status quo before wasn't sustainable... but this farking sucks.

Your name is accurate.

Everything I just said is from first hand experience. Please tell me where I'm wrong.

You know what, I bought into the promise of "Obama Care". I was wrong. All I've seen are premiums go up, my friends who work part time get their hours severely reduced so the companies don't have to offer them care, the co-pay on everything double, and impending fines. The status quo before wasn't sustainable... but this farking sucks.