Hello!, i am a fan of aikido(As well as other combat arts)--my question to all you aikido Pro's outthere is on what you call the circles in aikido.I understand the 8-directions to "force coerce"--as i call it.--ie: front,back,right-side,left-side,and the 4-in-between points.I know that knowing these points, you can off-balance.it seems to me, that this is aikido's "bread-n-butter"-speciality!...so, how, or what-does the circle fit in to the aforementioned?Is this a pattern? Thanks ahead of time for any responses.p.s.By the way, it was this understanding of these 8-points, that enabled BRUCE LEE, to do his one-inch punch.The force coming directly IN FRONT of the guy(no matter how short the distance)--knocked the guy backwards.....naturally.So all you kung-fu guys that still think it a mystery, sorry!---just plain 'ol physics!---that aikido stylists have known for a long time.,---terry

[QUOTE]Originally posted by TerryhLee:Hello!, i am a fan of aikido(As well as other combat arts)--my question to all you aikido Pro's outthere is on what you call the circles in aikido.I understand the 8-directions to "force coerce"--as i call it.--ie: front,back,right-side,left-side,and the 4-in-between points.I know that knowing these points, you can off-balance.it seems to me, that this is aikido's "bread-n-butter"-speciality!...so, how, or what-does the circle fit in to the aforementioned?Is this a pattern? Thanks ahead of time for any responses.p.s.By the way, it was this understanding of these 8-points, that enabled BRUCE LEE, to do his one-inch punch.The force coming directly IN FRONT of the guy(no matter how short the distance)--knocked the guy backwards.....naturally.So all you kung-fu guys that still think it a mystery, sorry!---just plain 'ol physics!---that aikido stylists have known for a long time.,---terry

[This message has been edited by TerryhLee (edited 06-20-2004).][/QUOTE]

P.P.S-------I'm new to this particular board, but something you all should know about me right off the bat......If i contribute something, i expect something contributed.If not, thats cool too.But that hinders my wanting to share anything.

A little about me, after training in karate for a little over three years, i spent the next 10 years studying various arts(This continues), i also was a bouncer, (so as to test various things--in real world combat, where they kill you, if you are wrong.)I remember one incident where this crazy person busted his drink glass, and was headed for my throat w/the broken half---this happened fast, and un-expected---So you see, i am about reality.Ufc rule structure thinking,....thats not reality.(fine sport though!)so anyway, thats a little about me.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by TerryhLee:Hello!, i am a fan of aikido(As well as other combat arts)--my question to all you aikido Pro's outthere is on what you call the circles in aikido.I understand the 8-directions to "force coerce"--as i call it.--ie: front,back,right-side,left-side,and the 4-in-between points.I know that knowing these points, you can off-balance.it seems to me, that this is aikido's "bread-n-butter"-speciality!...so, how, or what-does the circle fit in to the aforementioned?Is this a pattern? Thanks ahead of time for any responses.p.s.By the way, it was this understanding of these 8-points, that enabled BRUCE LEE, to do his one-inch punch.The force coming directly IN FRONT of the guy(no matter how short the distance)--knocked the guy backwards.....naturally.So all you kung-fu guys that still think it a mystery, sorry!---just plain 'ol physics!---that aikido stylists have known for a long time.,---terry

[This message has been edited by TerryhLee (edited 06-20-2004).][/QUOTE]

Hmm... I'm a little confused about what you are saying. Off-balancing uke is definitely stressed in any style of aikido, but I'm not sure what you mean about the eight direction. We have a single person exercise called happo undo, which is an eight direction exercise where we basically perform the ikkyo arm swing in eight directions. This is also done with a bokken, when completed with a spin and a half it's our "Bokken 1" kata.

On a seperate note, I've been "1-inch punched," essentially, from a high ranking aikido sensei about a month back. He threw me literally six to eight feet straight back, I was horizontal to the ground and the flight was awesome! I wish I could perform this feat to let my friends in on the fun [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG].

Hello Joe jutsu!, sense you were kind enough to at least reply,you are most assuredly decent people in my book.Now on to the clarification you asked for:The 8-directions i am sure every aikdo stylists understands, they just dont call it the 8-directions.(You guys probably have a neat japanese name for it.)If I push (hit,pull...use FORCE,etc)--To the right of someone standing erect(Like at attention in the service), this would be their left shoulder for illustration purposes---.....they will step to the right,to catch their balance,so as to keep from falling.The same procedure on their RIGHT shoulder.(Their left leg will step out to keep from falling)so far,---thats TWO---Now the FRONT.If I push,HIT,use force,etc---directly in THE MIDDLE OF THE BODY..(And remember they are standing up straight)...the person will have to step a leg back to keep from falling.The same from THE BACK MIDDLE OF THE BODY.Now we are at 4.Imagine A CROSS-HAIR,OR PLAIN CROSS.NOW THE OTHER 4-POINTS,or points in-between those cross-hairs.These are simple ,fundamental off-balancing dynamics,that i am sure every aikido stylists know, but probably calls it something else.When Bruce Lee(Whom I admire)--would have the person STAND ERECT,AND "AT ATTENTION LIKE", and have the person grasp hard the phone book tightly to their chest,place his fist one-inch from the MIDDLE of the person's chest,....and then wail into'm!,...like you and your instructor, the person would go flying backward.Sometimes at ed parker demos of the aforementioned, their would be a chair behind the person--to catch him---well, to be honest, not taking anything from Bruce, his punching ability is legendary, but the real SECRET, behind that......is what i illustrated earlier w/the fundamental off-balancing dynamics.Bruce was aware of the physics, as are most Aikidoka(I am not an aikido expert, by the way.)But i am aware that they know this, because it is their bread-n-butter, signature style, most apparent when they practice against MULTIPLE ATTACKERS.Above the law, comes to mind.---Terry

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Joe Jutsu: Hmm... I'm a little confused about what you are saying. Off-balancing uke is definitely stressed in any style of aikido, but I'm not sure what you mean about the eight direction. We have a single person exercise called happo undo, which is an eight direction exercise where we basically perform the ikkyo arm swing in eight directions. This is also done with a bokken, when completed with a spin and a half it's our "Bokken 1" kata.

On a seperate note, I've been "1-inch punched," essentially, from a high ranking aikido sensei about a month back. He threw me literally six to eight feet straight back, I was horizontal to the ground and the flight was awesome! I wish I could perform this feat to let my friends in on the fun [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG].

Joe

[This message has been edited by Joe Jutsu (edited 06-25-2004).][/QUOTE]Hey joe, I answered your post....only to see my reply disappear!?!I will wait and see if this disappears as well.If not, I will answerAGAIN,later.thanks,(This must be a technical glitch of some sort.)---Terry

[QUOTE]Originally posted by TerryhLee: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Joe Jutsu: Hmm... I'm a little confused about what you are saying. Off-balancing uke is definitely stressed in any style of aikido, but I'm not sure what you mean about the eight direction. We have a single person exercise called happo undo, which is an eight direction exercise where we basically perform the ikkyo arm swing in eight directions. This is also done with a bokken, when completed with a spin and a half it's our "Bokken 1" kata.

On a seperate note, I've been "1-inch punched," essentially, from a high ranking aikido sensei about a month back. He threw me literally six to eight feet straight back, I was horizontal to the ground and the flight was awesome! I wish I could perform this feat to let my friends in on the fun [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG].

Joe

[This message has been edited by Joe Jutsu (edited 06-25-2004).][/QUOTE]Hey joe, I answered your post....only to see my reply disappear!?!I will wait and see if this disappears as well.If not, I will answerAGAIN,later.thanks,(This must be a technical glitch of some sort.)---Terry[/QUOTE]well,my reply seems to be back again for now?...hmmm,I never was that pc saavy,does anyone know why this happens?

Thanks for elaborating a bit more. What you have said about the eight directions seems sort of like common sense. In my understanding of Systema, they may talk along these lines a little more than MY aikido school does. Our emphasis is more on "ups" and "downs," when applied correctly (ie in harmony with uke, gravity, and to an esoteric extent the universe)produces many of our throws. But now that I think about your post a bit more, thinking of different techniques I definitely see what you are talking about exemplified through many of our techniques, particularly in atemi waza.

Hi Terry,I am a little confused by your post but here goes an answer...I understand the eight directions. Simply if you can move in any direction with balance then you can "encourage" "uke" (your attacker) off balance. The circles come in at the same time and are everywhere, you make them with your hands, your arms, your hips and your feet dependant on the technique. For example..If someone thrusts at your stomach you could move to six of the eight directions (ie not straight forward or back). But then as well you can take the attack and lead it circuarly around you, like an equator around you at hip level. However if someone attacks you with an overhead chopping motion, you would also step out of the way but this time lead the attack circuarly from top to bottm. I hope that is two clear examples of circles being used in Aikido. I am not sure if that is the type of circles you are referring to but I hope it helps. StephenPS the book "Aikido and the dynamic sphere" Is a great illustrated introduction to this idea of "cicles of neautralization."