Anyone else notice the GOP has dropped the ACA (Obamacare) Rhetoric and Demands?

An interesting thing has happened over the past few days. The Republicans have switched from saying this whole thing is about stopping Obamacare to
now saying it is about "fiscal responsibility".

To me, this shows that they have already caved and hopefully will drop this ridiculous stunt and actually do their job. Although I find it ironic
that they have the marbles to talk about "fiscal responsibility" when they are shutting down the government and threatening to default.

I think they have finally got the message that the American public is not behind them on this stunt. What I don't like is that they are only talking
about a 6 week extension. That isn't good because it has the potential to tank the holiday shopping season which a lot of our economy is dependent
on.

If anyone wants to talk about politicians making things as painful as possible...maybe you should look at the Republicans who are going to be setting
the next panic date for one week before Black Friday, which is the biggest shopping day of the year. Nice way to further tank the economy, spread
fear and panic right before the holiday shopping season kicks off. I just wanted to put this little fact out there right now so when the time comes
people can't cry and blame Obama. This is a date the Republicans are setting, and they are setting it intentionally to attempt to once again use
fear and panic as a bargaining tool.

But the real point of this thread is that everyone that supported the GOP on this shutdown over the ACA got played. They knew nothing would happen
with the ACA, and they are caving on it right now by removing all talking points about it. Now it is all about "fiscal responsibility" and no
longer about "Obamacare". They did it as a stunt, to be able to see "Look at us, look what we did....we "fought" for what you naïve voters
wanted...vote for us because we "listened" to you".

Funding for Obamacare IS fiscally irresponsible, so maybe they've just rolled the funding for the ACA into the whole fiscal responsibility spiel.
Both sides of the political aisle suck, just like the ACA. Yea, just pass the bill into law, but don't actually read what is in there??? This
country is on autopilot, the pilot has bailed out with his parachute, and the gas is running low.

Why use leverage, leverage you planned to use for months, and not stick to it?

why pick the fight using leverage that makes you look bad?

why pick a zero sum game to participate in - no one wins in the mexican standoff, yet they choose this to make their stand?

This are children, children. What is more shameful is the thousands of staff members that gleefully support this nonsense. Sycophantic losers. The
staff of these folks supported the insurance thing, then wanted to be excluded. It is these scum I dislike the most, the folks who make it possible
for this kind of silliness to happen, the slaves who serve their masters best by selling out everyone they know for a pittance in pay - not enough to
cover the obacare they loved and made happen.

With all the BS about the shutdown being the GOP's fault, plastered on every news channel but Fox, maybe they've figured that it's pointless to go
after that tactic anymore. According to much of the main stream news and the papers, and the magazines, the shutdown is all the Republicans fault.

Krazysh0t
You know what else is interesting? That you believe that continually raising the debt ceiling is a viable solution to fixing our economy.

No, what is interesting is that you think our economy needs to be "fixed".

The debt ceiling is an antiquated law that should have been repealed a long time ago. It does absolutely nothing to stop our debt from accumulating.
If they wanted to do that, the law would have to be applied to laws being passed...not after the fact when the money is already spent. All the debt
ceiling does is put our economy and credit rating in jeopardy because it allows idiots to attempt to use it as a bargaining tool.

Our debt ratio is not a problem, which is why we are still considered the worlds economic powerhouse and why people still want to buy our debt. The
only real problem is that the GOP has sold this idea to the, not very intelligent, American public that "big numbers = bad". You never hear them
talk about the debt ratio to the GDP or our Wealth...only about how "big the debt is".

Answer me something...if someone who is making 15k a year has 500k in debt, would you say that is a bad thing? How about if someone who is making 10
million a year has 500k in debt, would you say that is a bad thing?

Actally, the budget was about defunding Obamacare and the debt ceiling issue was about fiscal responsibility.

Or the GOP are all devils drinking the blood of llamas from the skull cup of viking virgins.

Either/or.

They dropped "defunding Obamacare" before the shutdown even happened. It went from Republicans saying "Defund Obamacare, Remove Medical Device Tax,
and Delay the individual mandate or we will shut down the government" to "Well ok, forget about the defunding...but still remove the tax and delay it
a year"....to "How about just delay it?"...to now just completely changing the narrative and saying "This was all about fiscal responsibility".

Republicans backed themselves into a corner that they didn't have a way out of. This is their way out and try to say they "won". Obama has always
said he would discuss budget issues, but the ACA was non-negotiable. Republican have known this the entire time. They did all this for one reason
only...to attempt to boost the moral of their cheerleaders (read GOP base)...and I'm pretty sure it backfired except for the Tea Partiers who would be
encouraged by anything anti-Obama.

It's such a joke, and it is so transparent. I almost feel pity for people who feel for this stunt...that is until I realize that it is these type of
people who are screwing our country up. The worst type of people are those that think they are informed, but are really just zombies being told what
to think. This is the current voting population of the GOP.

Ah the tired debt ratio argument. The argument that we can have a debt as high as we want as long as GDP is high enough. This despite GDP calculations
can take into account the same dollar multiple times (meaning it would be physically impossible to take the nation's entire yearly GDP and pay the
debt with it). Ignoring the fact that a country should have a debt to GDP ratio of about 40% (ours is over two times that), this is a weak judge of a
healthy economy. Not to mention we don't pay the debt with our GDP, we pay it with our taxes. So your analogy is kind of misinformed.

The reason I bring this up is interest. Interest works through a percentage of the debt, so the higher the debt the higher the interest payment.
Interest also tends to rise exponentially, so the higher the debt grows, the interest payment grows even faster.

Right now our interest payment is less than all the taxes we take in. What do you think will happen when the interest payment grows higher than the
amount of incoming taxes the government takes in? Do you understand what that means at all? Before you answer, I'll just explain it to you anyways.
That means that no matter how much money the government allocates towards servicing the debt, we would NEVER be able to pay the debt off. It
would be mathematically impossible. Our children wouldn't be able to do it and neither would any of our ancestors. This is because the debt will
increase forever even if the government doesn't spend a single penny and just pays on the debt. This would also cause a default.

The thing is that this isn't some sort of possibility, it is an inevitability. This will happen. It is simple math. So THAT is why believing that
continually raising the debt ceiling is NOT a solution to our economic troubles.

Also one last point. If you honestly believe that we have a healthy economy, than you are surely a lost soul who has been blinded by the Democratic
party's rhetoric. Since we don't have a healthy economy, then one can come to the conclusion that the economy needs fixing. This should just be
standard knowledge, not something "interesting".

Krazysh0t
You know what else is interesting? That you believe that continually raising the debt ceiling is a viable solution to fixing our economy.

No, it isn't a viable solution for fixing the economy, but it is a viable solution to keep chaos from ensuing.
They want to hurt the lower class because the system is pitted against it's chances and has caused a disproportion they don't want to admit to.

I think the people want something totally different. Something they never budge on.... so they are causing a real problem since they work for the
people. I have seen some slow change, but it's still a glimmer of hope.

they are the real obstacle in fixing the economy. They can blame a slow economy on a paralyzed populace who often doesn't know what it should do from
one day to the next. They made that happen with their time and resource wasting bullcrap. The solution is obvious. We need to get rolling again by
doing the right thing because that will inspire and restore some faith for a new and different kind of populace that is becoming aware.

They work FOR the people and they need to be reminded. People really do want change. We need to take chances on the right things and be the leaders we
claim to be... instead of the bullies.

Stop playing war, quit threatening with big toys, help the people in a hard time, pay the bills... and then let's really start making some changes.
It's all about energy and waste and the corrupt monetary system.

Since we have yet to see those changes, they need to suck it up, shore it up... do what they have to do to keep things going smoothly or they will
force the people to prove to them that they are not needed... THEN, they better start making some changes. REAL changes before this problem rolls
around yet again.

What if america shut down? What if the entire country went on strike? IT'S OURS. We grow food, we have wells, we fix machines and make machines, we
make stuff, we build houses, we actually do it all from enforcement to even maintaining the power grid. What if we just kept doing enough to keep the
backbone in place and just helped each other out while laying low and just running what was needed and didn't listen to their crap? if this crap
persists there are even some in office that would back us up. Are they going to march out of the big offices and make us? No, they have to get
somebody else to do it. ONE OF US... regardless of whether or not they realize it. If things get out of hand then even those who have those jobs doing
their dirty deeds will reconsider how worth it is to have a dollar in your pocket when the earth has what we need, we just have to cooperate with one
another. They don't want to play that game. They don't even want to come close to opening that can of worms because if security falls, they will be
dragged into the street and they know it so they can only take this so far. Why go that far? They spend too much money of detrimental crap and
sacrifice human lives and we hate them. They didn't learn their lesson so raise the limit once again and let's do this all over again in the hopes
that one day the high ups will get the damn point.

What are they going to do? Cut satellite feeds so we no longer hear their crap?

Why do you think wages and furloughs were the first issue that came up after the shut down began... because they had to keep them thinking they will
still have their normal jobs and lives so they wouldn't be the first ones to turn on them and say... hey, you know what? No... I'm not going to pull
the plug on that website just to make a damn point. I'm not going to throw people out of campsites... No. You do it if you want it done.

they are not happy unless they see us all up running around busy like bees, instead of sitting and waiting to figure out what is going on. Hording
what we have and not out spending it all on junk and then working more to make more to buy more junk because the more the money moves, the richer the
rich get. Hell, we are too busy reading the news to put time into thinking about all the useless crap we need.

If they want to really get things rolling... inspire us o' mighty leaders of America, and do something right for a change by changing some of your
incredibly bad and wasteful policies.

In the mean time, they need to quit blocking the way before they get shoved aside.

This fight was never over the ACA. That was all just red meat for their crazy religious right base. This is all about getting the cuts to
entitlement programs that the hard right and the billionaires in the country have been drooling over for years.

This is the insanity at the root of it all, where we not supposed to start handling the debt the last time they raised it?

(In advance sorry for the gender based analogy... )

American government has become the spoiled house wife who refuses to give up her credit cards and holds her husband who is the citizens are being held
by emotional blackmail...(you need me more than I need you) type crap.

Lol if the Debt ceiling was not raised and the Government started to lay off workers and restrict access to memorials and national parks which require
government workers, then conservatives would still bitch and moan about it much like they are doing right now.

They want the current President to look as bad as he can possibly look along with Democrats, if it means purposely hurting the Economy? then so be it,
but Obama and the evil communist Democrats must be embarrassed and made to look bad.

House Republican leaders said Thursday they will offer a temporary increase in the federal debt ceiling in exchange for negotiations with
President Obama on longer-term “pressing problems,” but they stopped short of agreeing to end a government shutdown now in its 10th day.

They are still wanting our Government employees, that includes Congress and the Senate and their aides to be exempt from ACA.
The Republicans in Congress wants them to Share the Hell the rest of America will have to bare.

The House Republicans essentially are offering a “clean” debt-limit increase in exchange for negotiations over reopening the government, aides
said. The government would not open until Obama agreed to “structural reforms” to the tax code and federal health programs.

Ah the tired debt ratio argument. The argument that we can have a debt as high as we want as long as GDP is high enough. This despite GDP calculations
can take into account the same dollar multiple times (meaning it would be physically impossible to take the nation's entire yearly GDP and pay the
debt with it). Ignoring the fact that a country should have a debt to GDP ratio of about 40% (ours is over two times that), this is a weak judge of a
healthy economy. Not to mention we don't pay the debt with our GDP, we pay it with our taxes. So your analogy is kind of misinformed.

The reason I bring this up is interest. Interest works through a percentage of the debt, so the higher the debt the higher the interest payment.
Interest also tends to rise exponentially, so the higher the debt grows, the interest payment grows even faster.

Right now our interest payment is less than all the taxes we take in. What do you think will happen when the interest payment grows higher than the
amount of incoming taxes the government takes in? Do you understand what that means at all? Before you answer, I'll just explain it to you anyways.
That means that no matter how much money the government allocates towards servicing the debt, we would NEVER be able to pay the debt off. It
would be mathematically impossible. Our children wouldn't be able to do it and neither would any of our ancestors. This is because the debt will
increase forever even if the government doesn't spend a single penny and just pays on the debt. This would also cause a default.

The thing is that this isn't some sort of possibility, it is an inevitability. This will happen. It is simple math. So THAT is why believing that
continually raising the debt ceiling is NOT a solution to our economic troubles.

Also one last point. If you honestly believe that we have a healthy economy, than you are surely a lost soul who has been blinded by the Democratic
party's rhetoric. Since we don't have a healthy economy, then one can come to the conclusion that the economy needs fixing. This should just be
standard knowledge, not something "interesting".

edit on 10-10-2013 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)

hahaha...and you just explained the entire problem with the debt based monetary system that most of america is stuck in...and why many in america need
help... and that system is the true problem. Look back to the ones who introduced this system and forced it upon the rest of the world like a
brilliant pyramid scheme... and look at those who are beating that system at it's own game.

there's always a bigger fish. Somebody needs to learn how to play nice for a change.

Everything works better when there is cooperation.

Give people what they want, what they built, what they make, what they grow, what they cook...what they are entitled to have and stop coming up with
ways to make them chase it or fight for it. Since the government already thinks everything belongs to IT... we might as well be communists, but it
isn't communists who made us this way... it was capitalists.

i said it before and i will say it again... communism spreads out of a desire to resist an empirical take over.
China was not communist until the west tried to intervene and control the Asia economy and break up china into smaller more controllable pieces. The
reason you see the control you see in china that they have on their society is because of the west... because it when it comes to a competition that
some see as a mere game, they are going to take it seriously and now they are beating the west at it's own game.

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