Review of the French tanks – Part 2 : tier IX

If you haven’t already, please read, at least, Part 0 : Introduction (link below) before reading this one. It will help you to understand the goal and logic of this serie. Thank you, and bonne lecture !

giving many times the same hypertext link from one source for a tank will be avoided, even if it’s used several times. So, keep them open while reading !

even though it got removed with the recent 9.15.1 update, the Lorraine 40t will be commented nonetheless, and not the Batignolles-Châtillon 25t AP

AMX 50 120

1) Top speed

According to Wikipedia.en as well as tanks-encyclopedia.com, speed tests from the AMX 50 100 indicate a maximum speed of 51 km/h. The notice from 1959 from the AMX 50 TOB also indicates this value. However, the AMX50 120 is equipped with the same engines, while being heavier. So its maximum speed reaches at best 51 km/h. In addition, the AMX-50 120 is very close to the AMX 65t, which maximum speed is only 40 km/h. This second value however seems quite small, compared to the first one. So the maximum speed achieved by the AMX 50 120 is at least 40 km/h. We then have a top speed nerf, from 65 km/h to [40-51] km/h.

Note : this nerf doesn’t impact much the tank’s gameplay, because it rarely exceeds 40 km/h, and very rarely 51 km/h.

2) Weight

As Wikipedia.en indicates, the second prototype of the AMX 50 120 (on which the AMX 50 120 in the game is visually based) reaches a mass of 64 tonnes. This therefore results in a weight increase, from 60 tonnes to about 64 tonnes.

Note : this implies a buff of its ramming ability, but also a nerf of its acceleration (so, even if the maximum speed is 40 km/h, the tank will reach it even more rarely than now).

3) Hull’s armour

According to tanks-encyclopedia.com, the frontal armor of the tank is 120 mm. Wikipedia.en indicates that the actual frontal armour from the chassis doubled (“doubling the frontal armor thickness”) with the second prototype of the AMX 50 120. It would then give an effective frontal armour of about 240 mm. Taking into account the angles of the AMX-50 120, detailed on this plan, a nominal armour of 120 mm provides an effective armour of about 210 mm, which means that the effective armour was multiplied by 1,75 (nearly doubled then), compared to the first prototype of the AMX 50 120. Wikipedia.en also indicates that the tank was frontally immune to shots of the IS-3, which was equipped with the 122 mm D-25T gun. But this gun penetrates at best 170 mm, which is quite below the actual and previously found 210 mm. It therefore implies an armour buff, from 100/80/60 (mm) to 120/80/60 (mm).

4) Turret’s armour

Since the AMX50 120 is an improved AMX 65t, which turret’s frontal armour is 250 mm, it is likely that the turret of the AMX-50 120 is also protected with 250 mm of armour frontally. However, like the turret of the AMX 50 TOB (see “Turret’s armour” about the AMX 50 B, in part 1), the protection’s distribution should be in a similar fashion but with an actual and maximum protection of 250 mm instead of 200 mm. Moreover, no known source indicates that the side and rear armours of the turret are different than from AMX 50 100, so they are likely 60 mm thick. So this gives a turret armour’s buff, from 100/80/60 (mm) to 250/60/60 (mm).

Just a detail, but the name of the turret would be more correct if it was “TOA-120” or “AMX 50 Type C”.

5) Armament

First, as explained with the AMX-50 B (see AMX 50 B’s – “Armament” in part 1), the 120 mm gun should be renamed “120 mm D.1203F” and should receive a penetration buff of the standard shell, from 257 mm to [266-278] mm and a premium shell’s penetration’s buff (which also becomes a HEAT), from 325 mm to 340 mm.

Then, as shown in this plan from the TOA-120 turret, the vertical elevation is -6°/+13°. This implies a buff of the vertical elevation, from -6°/+8° to -6°/+13°.

Finally, as shown in the same plan, the drum loader consists of 6 rounds. Such a drum loader would make the AMX 50 120 capable of destroying almost all tier X tanks (except the Maus, E-100, IS-4, Type 5 Heavy and FV215b) with 1 clip because the total damage would have an average of 2400. Such a drum loader is possible to balance (the one from the current AMX 50 Foch (155) deals an average of 2250 damage) but needs to fire slowly enough to let a chance for enemies to take cover or to fight back.

Here is a drum loader idea for it :

Complete reloading time : 35 seconds

Reloading time between shells : 4 seconds

Number of shells : 6

With this format, one reaches this power :

Damage per minute (DPM) : 2618 (in comparison, the current AMX 50 120 has a DPM of 2132, the current AMX50 B has a DPM of 2560, and the T57 Heavy has a DPM of 3096)

Time to unload the drum loader : 20 seconds

In conclusion, with such a drum loader, the AMX 50 120 would theoretically be capable to destroy nearly all enemies with just 1 drum loader, but in practice, it will not have enough time to unload its drum loader within 1 time.

6) Radio

It’s just a detail, but the “SCR 508” radio’s true range is 12 kilometers. If we reduce that in order to fit into the world of WoT (where the radio range does not exceed 750 meters), then the radio range would be of about 430 meters. So we have a buff of the radio range of the “SCR 508” radio, from 400 m to 430 m.

7) Name

The name “AMX 70t” would be better than “AMX 50 120”, since there exists 5 versions of the AMX 50 120.

Conclusion

The tank receives many buffs : hull’s frontal armour (which, by the way, improves its ability to ram), turret’s frontal armour (enough for playing with a “hulldown” tactic), penetration of standard and premium shells, vertical elevation and more devastating drum loader.

As for the top speed, although nerfed on paper, in practice it will be barely noticeable, since the current AMX 50 120 rarely exceeds 40 km/h.

These changes allow the AMX 50 120 to be promoted to tier X, where it will replace the old AMX 50 B in the role of heavy tank with a drum loader (as a reminder, according to the proposed changes, the AMX 50 B becomes a classic tank with a semi-automatic reloading system).

The notice from 1952 indicates 4 crew members : 1 commander, 1 gunner, 1 loader and 1 driver. This setup is confirmed by other sources. There is thus a change required in the number of crew members to the following format : [commander (radio operator) + gunner + driver + loader] or [commander + gunner + driver + loader (radio operator)], not really knowing who serves as radio operator.

3) Hull’s armour

All sources (1952 notice, websites and table) mention a frontal armour of 40 mm, a side armour of 30 mm and a rear armour of 25 mm. So the hull’s armour should be nerfed from 40/40/25 (mm) to 40/30/25 (mm).

4) Engine

The notice from 1952, chars-français.net and the table indicate an engine delivering 850 hp. According to the table, this engine is called “Maybach HL234 P45”, a motor already present in the game. However, no mention is made about an engine delivering 980 hp, called “Maybach HL234 P50”. Moreover, according to this site, which lists all Maybach engines, there is only one HL234 engine delivering 800 hp. The power difference is probably due to slight postwar improvements by the French or a standard engine used beyond its nominal regime speed. So the engine “Maybach HL234 P50” should be deleted, that means an engine power’s nerf from 980 hp to 850 hp.

Note : taking into account the weight change as well as the engine’s change, the power to weight ratio is then nerfed from 25,3 hp/t to 21,4 hp/t. As a result, and despite this nerf, the Lorraine 40t has the best ratio of all tier IX medium tanks, except the Skoda T50 (which already has 26 hp/t !).

5) Armament

First, as for the Batignolles-Châtillon 25t, the “90 mm F3” gun is from 1962 to 1963, while the Lorraine 40t is from 1952. The “90 mm F3” gun should then be removed. To replace it, the “90 mm DCA 45” gun can be added, which, though it was never planned for this vehicle, remains the most historical option.

Then, according to all sources, the ammunition rack consists of 50 shells, normally only AP shells (but it is acceptable to use HE shells as well, for gameplay reasons). So the ammunition rack should be buffed from 48 shells to 50 shells.

6) Radio

Same change as by the AMX-50 120, a buff of the radio range of the “SCR 508” from 400 m to 430 m.

Conclusion

Changes about the weight, armour and guns are negligible and tend to compensate each others. The engine’s nerf remains the most important one. However, despite this nerf, the tank keeps a very good mobility against its competitors in tier IX. To compensate for this nerf, slight buffs about softs stats (including aim time and/or accuracy) would compensate. The The Lorraine 40t can thereforce stay at tier IX.

AMX 30 1er prototype

1) Turrets and hull’s armour

These are details, but the “Euro-Panzer F” and “AMX 30 A” names would be better and simpler than “AMX 30 1er prototype” and “AMX 30 A pré-serie”.

Regarding the first turret, some sources, particularly this one, claim a rear armour of 50mm and not 30mm but this is hard to check.

The same source also indicates a 80/60/30 (mm) hull armour instead of 80/30/30 (mm) but this is quite contradictory to the fact that the AMX 30 1er prototype is lighter than the AMX 30 B (32,5 tonnes versus 36 tonnes). Informations to developp then…

2) Engines

First, a detail about the name, “Hispano-Suiza HS 110” instead of “Hispano-Suiza HS 110 pré-serie” would be more appropriate because it’s the same engine as the AMX 30 B (the 1st prototypes of the AMX 30 were first equipped with the SOFAM 12 GSds which were later replaced by the Hispano-Suiza HS 110).

Note : Although less powerful than the “SOFAM 12 GSds” that delivers 720 hp (as seen on tanks-encyclopedia.com, chars-français.net and the two Wikipedia), the new “Hispano-Suiza HS 110” would have, in game, two non-negligible advantages : firstly a lower chance of fire (because it’s a diesel engine, and not a gasoline engine) and secondly a lighter weight (giving as a result a better power-to-weight ratio than the with the 720 hp engine).

3) Armament

First, about the two stocks guns, the “90 mm F3” and “100 mm SA47”. The first one is really weak for a tier IX tank and the second one brings no interest, no matter if historical or for gameplay. So the “90 mm F3” and the “100 mm SA47” should be removed. In addition, the Euro-Panzer F (name of the two first AMX 30 1er prototype) was equipped with the “105 mm mle. 59” gun (or “CN-105-59” or “D.1507” depending of denominations). This gun is most likely similar to the “105 mm mle. F1” in terms of penetration, but could have weaker soft stats (aim time and/or accuracy). So the “105 mm mle. 59” should be added, replacing both the “90 mm F3” and the “100 mm SA47.”

About the “105 mm mle. F1”, it should have the same changes as with the AMX 30 B (see AMX 30 B’s “Armament” in part 1). The penetration of the standard shell should then be buffed from 260 mm to 268 mm (and that’s a minimum), and the premium shell’s penetration should be buffed from 320 mm to 350 mm.

4) Radio

To be totally logical with all the game’s radios, the AMX 30 1er prototype should have two radios : the “TRVP-13” and “TRVP-113” (see here). The first has in reality a range of about 20 km and the second a range of about 30 km. Brought into the world of WoT, where radios do not transmit farther than 750 m, it would then be like this :- TRVP-13 with a radio range of about 565 m.

– TRVP-113 with a radio range of about 750 m.

In summary, it consists of removing the “TRVP-11 (Banane)”, nerf of the “TRVP-13″‘s range from 750 m to 565 m and addition of the “TRVP-113” with a range of 750 m.

5) Name

Just a detail, but “AMX 30 A” would be simpler and more historical than “AMX 30 1er prototype”.

Conclusion

Just like the AMX-30 B, it’s mostly a slight mobility nerf compensated by a slight firepower buff, the rest being only details (and therefore easy things to change) so the AMX 30 1er prototype remains at tier IX.

AMX 50 Foch

1) Top speed

The chars-francais.net website claims that the top speed of the AMX 50 Foch is 65 km/h. However, this value is probably the ideal value with the 1.200 hp engine, like by the AMX 50 heavy tanks. The AMX 50 Foch probably reached the same top speed as his heavy tank cousin, so, 51 km/h. So the top speed should be buffed from 50 km/h to 51 km/h.

2) Weight

On this plan of the AMX AC mle.48, which is in fact the AMX 50 Foch but with an AA turret at the rear (you can compare with this plan of the AMX 50 Foch), the vehicle’s mass is 57,4 tonnes. With the removal of the AA turret and everything related to it (5th crew member, ammunition, etc), the vehicle’s mass probably reaches 56 tonnes. This therefore means that the weight should be increased, from 50,2 tonnes to 56 tonnes.

Note : this involves a ram ability buff but an acceleration nerf.

3) Armament

As for the AMX 50 B or the AMX 50 120, the 120 mm gun should be renamed to “120 mm AC D.1203F” and should receive a penetration buff of its standard shell from 257 mm to [266-278] mm, and a premium shell’s penetration buff (which also becomes a HEAT) from 325 mm to 340 mm.

In addition, according to the plan of the AMX AC mle. 48, the vertical elevation is -6°/+18° and the horizontal gun angles are -9°/+9°. Unless it’s proven otherwise, the AMX 50 Foch has the same values. This implies a horizontal gun angles nerf, from -10°/+10° to -9°/9°.

Moreover, according to this source, the 120 mm shells’ rack can host 40 rounds. We therefore have a ammunition rack’s nerf, going from 64 carried shells to 40 carried shells.

4) Radio

Same change as for the AMX 50 120, the radio range of the “SCR 508” should be buffed from from 400 m to about 430 m.

Conclusion

Slight nerfs and slight buffs which don’t really change the AMX 50 Foch, which then remains as tier IX.

Batignolles-Châtillon 155 mle. 55

1) Top speed

This self-propelled gun is based on the M47 Patton US medium tank, with which it shares all organs except the turret and gun. However, as seen on chars-francais.net, tanks-encyclopedia.com, Wikipedia.fr or this table, the top speed of the M47 Patton is 48 km/h. This implies a top speed nerf, from 56,3 km/h to 48 km/h.

2) Armament

The “155 mm mle. 17 G.P.F.” is an aberration on a vehicle from 1950. This gun shall then be removed. Instead, the “Obusier de 155 mm mle. 1950” makes much more sense, as it can be seen on this picture. The “Obusier de 155 mm mle. 1950” should then be added.

3) Radio

Same change as for the AMX 50 120, the radio range of the “SCR 508” should be buffed from from 400 m to about 430 m.

Conclusion

Very little changes, the top speed doesn’t really change much the gameplay. The Batignolles-Châtillon 155 mle. 55 remains at tier IX.