How many of the 4 million woman in that march have disrespected themselves by having one night stands with complete strangers? Yeah I know, its there choice to cheapen themselves...

I'm very interested in the logical proofs and arguments one can mobilize to claim something like this. Using what metrics can one claim that a woman cheapens herself every time she has sex with a dude, whether she knows/loves him or not.

How many of the 4 million woman in that march have disrespected themselves by having one night stands with complete strangers? Yeah I know, its there choice to cheapen themselves...

I'm very interested in the logical proofs and arguments one can mobilize to claim something like this. Using what metrics can one claim that a woman cheapens herself every time she has sex with a dude, whether she knows/loves him or not.

I've known many girls my age, as well as older ones I've worked with that use Planned Parenthood, and their visits have absolutely nothing to do with abortion.

The plan to defund Planned Parenthood was a HUGE motivation for the march. It's a ridiculous and malicious move.

From what it sounds like, this only impacts international organizations. I'm not sure if Planned Parenthood Global falls under that or not. Still, if I were an American woman, I'd expect something similar to come down the pipeline some time in the near future.

Clinton tried to advance women's rights, OK? Find one single comment or stroke of his pen that counterpoints my statement.

I think back to when the impeachment hearings took place, and my reasonable GOP friends said, 'who gives a f*ck, it has nothing to do with his job, I disagree with what he did, but he's a good president.'

That does not excuse his actions, but what the hell good did it serve this country? Especially when so many GOPs were knocking off a piece on the side......including males.

btw, since this is a forum that is 99% male, and definitely leans to the right, I have a question: if your spouse/girlfriend/daughter/relative is raped and impregnated, whose decision is it to terminate the pregnancy?

IT IS NOT MINE. IT IS NOT YOURS. IT IS HERS.

Oh, and imagine if the rapist is an illegal alien that is HIV+.

DT would have the woman and doctor prisoned, if an abortion took place.

There is no gray area on this discussion, guys. His views are on record. As are those of the VP. And Sessions. And Carson's. And......

I've known many girls my age, as well as older ones I've worked with that use Planned Parenthood, and their visits have absolutely nothing to do with abortion.

The plan to defund Planned Parenthood was a HUGE motivation for the march. It's a ridiculous and malicious move.

Planned Parenthood should not taken a cent from Government to fund abortion since half the country that pays taxes is vehemently opposed to them. That's my opinion.

Now that's not saying every faction of it should be defunded, just that portion.

THERE IS NO PORTION OF FUNDING FROM THE GOVERNMENT THAT GOES TO FUND ABORTION.

Panned parenthood doesn't do abortions?

They do, but the government doesn't fund it. People talk about defunding Planned Parenthood like there's some line item on the budget where we write them a check for X dollars to do with it what we will. In reality, the funding is at least largely referring to PP receiving reimbursements via Medicare/caid for procedures and services provided. They do not receive reimbursements from Medicare/caid for abortions.

edit: as Chino pointed out, they will receive gov't money only in the case where the woman was not a consensual partner in the act that led to the pregnancy.

I've known many girls my age, as well as older ones I've worked with that use Planned Parenthood, and their visits have absolutely nothing to do with abortion.

The plan to defund Planned Parenthood was a HUGE motivation for the march. It's a ridiculous and malicious move.

Planned Parenthood should not taken a cent from Government to fund abortion since half the country that pays taxes is vehemently opposed to them. That's my opinion.

Now that's not saying every faction of it should be defunded, just that portion.

THERE IS NO PORTION OF FUNDING FROM THE GOVERNMENT THAT GOES TO FUND ABORTION.

Panned parenthood doesn't do abortions?

They do, but the government doesn't fund it. People talk about defunding Planned Parenthood like there's some line item on the budget where we write them a check for X dollars to do with it what we will. In reality, the funding is at least largely referring to PP receiving reimbursements via Medicare/caid for procedures and services provided. They do not receive reimbursements from Medicare/caid for abortions.

They rarely do if it's a rape or if the woman will die otherwise. Hyde Amendment.

"Since 1976, the Hyde Amendment has blocked federal Medicaid funding for abortion services (since 1994, there have been three extremely narrow exceptions: when continuing the pregnancy will endanger the woman’s life, or when the pregnancy results from rape or incest). This means Medicaid cannot cover abortion even when a woman’s health is at risk and her doctor recommends she get an abortion."

97% of what Planned Parenthood does is for the healthcare for women. And it gives them guidance.

Yes, they do abortions.

btw......do any of you know that the 'Pill' is used to help women when they suffer from severe bleeding 'down there'? A college girlfriend suffered through this. As did my first wife. And my current wife of 15 years.

Where do you think that women of low income can get the diagnosis or treatment for this ailment before needed surgery?

You really do not have a clue.

oh, btw, yes, Planned Parenthood does abortions. If abortions are outlawed, don't you think the friends of the Drumpfs will hire the best doctor to perform an abortion of an unwanted pregnancy? The practice will go on. After all, no one drank during The Prohibition.

Does this thread need to turn into an abortion/Planned Parenthood debate? I'm not saying it needs to be off-limits. But it just seems to me that there is plenty of interesting discussion to be had on the topic at hand rather than going down that oft-tread road.

Logged

"The Supreme Court of the United States has descended from the disciplined legal reasoning of John Marshall and Joseph Story to the mystical aphorisms of the fortune cookie."

How many of the 4 million woman in that march have disrespected themselves by having one night stands with complete strangers? Yeah I know, its there choice to cheapen themselves...

I'm very interested in the logical proofs and arguments one can mobilize to claim something like this. Using what metrics can one claim that a woman cheapens herself every time she has sex with a dude, whether she knows/loves him or not.

Also, if what Trump said 10 years ago is supposedly off the table, why are these women's sexual histories at all relevant?

Does this thread need to turn into an abortion/Planned Parenthood debate? I'm not saying it needs to be off-limits. But it just seems to me that there is plenty of interesting discussion to be had on the topic at hand rather than going down that oft-tread road.

Sorry Bosk Man, I'll try to tie it back in.

The discussion above was the reason for the march. Women feel like there is an entire party against them that doesn't look at facts and is blindly trying to shut down their access to much needed health treatment. They see people screaming to defund planned parenthood because they abort babies with tax dollars, and it couldn't be further from the truth. It's flat out incorrect no matter how many alternative facts you want to throw at it. Because of misinformation, misunderstanding, ignorance, or whatever you want to call it, many women's access to services they truly need is in jeopardy.

My grandmother asked me why I marched so I really thought about it and started writing some reasons down. I may get quite a bit of flack for this - but here are my personal reasons for why I marched:Because this morning on the radio while driving to work, the local radio host talked about the women’s marches as huge gaggles of women to hook up with, like they were prey to feast upon for a single man. “Just say you support Planned Parenthood and then you’ll be needing Planned Parenthood”.Because I’m afraid to go for a run at night around my neighborhood – merely because I am a woman.Because victims of rape and violence are still shamed and blamed for the crimes committed against them. “Why don’t you just leave?” “Were you wearing something short?”Because those who commit those crimes are given inappropriate, short sentences compared to the life of pain and trauma for their victim. Because it isn’t an issue of political correctness, it’s an issue of respect and common decency. Because people called Michelle Obama an ape or a transvestite. Because my Mother proved to me that a woman can be strong and smart.Because people focus on what Hillary or Melania wore, instead of what they say or do. Because women are told to “smile” – accept my resting bitch face as it is.Because women are expected to wear makeup and shave body hair. When they don’t it is “disgusting” or “ugly”. Because my Aunts deserve to marry each other.Because I want the President to put his hand on the Constitution instead of the bible during his inauguration.Because I do not think it is okay for our President to talk about women the way he has.Because people still keep asking if me and my husband are going to have children when it is none of their business.Because people call the signs left behind after the March trash without thinking of the perspective of the person who carried that sign. Because people marginalize the word feminism as a negative term and call Feminist’s “man-hating lesbians”.Because my husband supports me and is a feminist.Because the conservative majority has already started the work to limit access for low income families to get access to health care at a singled-out non-profit doctor’s office.Because the pay gap does exist.Because I believe laws should not restrict what a woman can do with her body.Because Fascism and Nationalism go hand and hand and the way I interpret our President comes off very authoritative. Because our President wants to start a Muslim registry.Because there are humans in this world suffering and we can/should help them by accepting them into our country.Because voicing descent or objecting to the current political swing is Democracy.Because both sides dehumanize and vilify the other and we can’t speak to one another.Because people think they are more “American” than me for whatever reason.Because I have a voice and I want it to be heard.

There were times when Rik and I were writing together when we almost died laughing. They were some of the most carefree stupid days I ever had, and I feel privileged to have shared them with him. And now he's died for real. Without me. Selfish bastard.

Does this thread need to turn into an abortion/Planned Parenthood debate? I'm not saying it needs to be off-limits. But it just seems to me that there is plenty of interesting discussion to be had on the topic at hand rather than going down that oft-tread road.

The thread starter questioned the reasoning behind the Women's Rights marches. Some of us have responded to dispute his opinions (and others) for the marches.

I do not want to discuss 'that topic' as well, but what does any reasonable thinking American think that the main topic of the marches was about?

[Bosk, I am not 'shouting'. I mean this in a 'civil' tone, as if you and I were in the same room to discuss, over a beer or two, and if we still disagreed at the end, we would still respect each others opinions. Always remember that when I post, OK?]

I care more for my wife and stepdaughter than anyone else in the world. It is not up to anybody what THEY decide regarding THEIR bodies, OK?

My grandmother asked me why I marched so I really thought about it and started writing some reasons down. I may get quite a bit of flack for this - but here are my personal reasons for why I marched:Because this morning on the radio while driving to work, the local radio host talked about the women’s marches as huge gaggles of women to hook up with, like they were prey to feast upon for a single man. “Just say you support Planned Parenthood and then you’ll be needing Planned Parenthood”.Because I’m afraid to go for a run at night around my neighborhood – merely because I am a woman.Because victims of rape and violence are still shamed and blamed for the crimes committed against them. “Why don’t you just leave?” “Were you wearing something short?”Because those who commit those crimes are given inappropriate, short sentences compared to the life of pain and trauma for their victim. Because it isn’t an issue of political correctness, it’s an issue of respect and common decency. Because people called Michelle Obama an ape or a transvestite. Because my Mother proved to me that a woman can be strong and smart.Because people focus on what Hillary or Melania wore, instead of what they say or do. Because women are told to “smile” – accept my resting bitch face as it is.Because women are expected to wear makeup and shave body hair. When they don’t it is “disgusting” or “ugly”. Because my Aunts deserve to marry each other.Because I want the President to put his hand on the Constitution instead of the bible during his inauguration.Because I do not think it is okay for our President to talk about women the way he has.Because people still keep asking if me and my husband are going to have children when it is none of their business.Because people call the signs left behind after the March trash without thinking of the perspective of the person who carried that sign. Because people marginalize the word feminism as a negative term and call Feminist’s “man-hating lesbians”.Because my husband supports me and is a feminist.Because the conservative majority has already started the work to limit access for low income families to get access to health care at a singled-out non-profit doctor’s office.Because the pay gap does exist.Because I believe laws should not restrict what a woman can do with her body.Because Fascism and Nationalism go hand and hand and the way I interpret our President comes off very authoritative. Because our President wants to start a Muslim registry.Because there are humans in this world suffering and we can/should help them by accepting them into our country.Because voicing descent or objecting to the current political swing is Democracy.Because both sides dehumanize and vilify the other and we can’t speak to one another.Because people think they are more “American” than me for whatever reason.Because I have a voice and I want it to be heard.

Fuckin A that is beautiful. Thank you SO much for posting.

And my husband is a proud feminist too. Nothing sexier to me.

And to all you guys on this thread who get it too....I'm trying not to "act like a girl" and be all emotional. But thanks for understanding and not continuing to marginalize our efforts. Men on the march with us on Saturday were the most meaningful thing I saw. Even though some of the signs were pretty funny.

Clinton tried to advance women's rights, OK? Find one single comment or stroke of his pen that counterpoints my statement.

I think back to when the impeachment hearings took place, and my reasonable GOP friends said, 'who gives a f*ck, it has nothing to do with his job, I disagree with what he did, but he's a good president.'

That does not excuse his actions, but what the hell good did it serve this country? Especially when so many GOPs were knocking off a piece on the side......including males.

btw, since this is a forum that is 99% male, and definitely leans to the right, I have a question: if your spouse/girlfriend/daughter/relative is raped and impregnated, whose decision is it to terminate the pregnancy?

IT IS NOT MINE. IT IS NOT YOURS. IT IS HERS.

Oh, and imagine if the rapist is an illegal alien that is HIV+.

DT would have the woman and doctor prisoned, if an abortion took place.

There is no gray area on this discussion, guys. His views are on record. As are those of the VP. And Sessions. And Carson's. And......

First, I'm not a "Conservative Republican" but I lean right, at least economically, and I feel I am very much in the minority here. So this place doesn't "lean right" as I see it.

But beyond that, can you at least do a modicum of fact-checking before you post? Talk about "alternative facts"! You keep misstating his position; that woman, had she lived in a state that allowed that abortion to take place WOULD NOT BE PUNISHED. So you are factually incorrect that "DT would have the woman and doctor prisoned [sic]". His point was - and has been stated multiple times on the record - that he would push the decision to legalize abortion to the states, where it should be.

Next, you cite Sessions, as if that was all that needed to be said. You fail to note, though, that in his confirmation hearings he stated clearly, more than once, that he would FOLLOW THE LAW OF THE LAND, regardless of whether he agreed with it or not. Abortion is a legal right (with some restrictions, that the Supreme Court has allowed). Even with predominantly Republican leadership for most of that time (at least in the Presidency), and a conservative majority at times (in the Court), the court has never even come close to overturning Roe v. Wade. Not once. In fact, it is likely that it won't ever be, because of standing issues; half the battle will be to find a plaintiff that can actually show damage from the law being IN place (the more likely alternative is a state bans it outright, and the challenge goes up to the Supreme Court, but the facts have to be just so for the court to overturn the whole scheme).

97% of what Planned Parenthood does is for the healthcare for women. And it gives them guidance.

Yes, they do abortions.

btw......do any of you know that the 'Pill' is used to help women when they suffer from severe bleeding 'down there'? A college girlfriend suffered through this. As did my first wife. And my current wife of 15 years.

Where do you think that women of low income can get the diagnosis or treatment for this ailment before needed surgery?

You really do not have a clue.

oh, btw, yes, Planned Parenthood does abortions. If abortions are outlawed, don't you think the friends of the Drumpfs will hire the best doctor to perform an abortion of an unwanted pregnancy? The practice will go on. After all, no one drank during The Prohibition.

More facts you have dead wrong:

It may be negligible, but government money DOES actually go to abortions in extreme cases. Not saying it's right or wrong (I happen to agree with it, but it's irrelevant).

My grandmother asked me why I marched so I really thought about it and started writing some reasons down. I may get quite a bit of flack for this - but here are my personal reasons for why I marched:Because this morning on the radio while driving to work, the local radio host talked about the women’s marches as huge gaggles of women to hook up with, like they were prey to feast upon for a single man. “Just say you support Planned Parenthood and then you’ll be needing Planned Parenthood”.Because I’m afraid to go for a run at night around my neighborhood – merely because I am a woman.Because victims of rape and violence are still shamed and blamed for the crimes committed against them. “Why don’t you just leave?” “Were you wearing something short?”Because those who commit those crimes are given inappropriate, short sentences compared to the life of pain and trauma for their victim. Because it isn’t an issue of political correctness, it’s an issue of respect and common decency. Because people called Michelle Obama an ape or a transvestite. Because my Mother proved to me that a woman can be strong and smart.Because people focus on what Hillary or Melania wore, instead of what they say or do. Because women are told to “smile” – accept my resting bitch face as it is.Because women are expected to wear makeup and shave body hair. When they don’t it is “disgusting” or “ugly”. Because my Aunts deserve to marry each other.Because I want the President to put his hand on the Constitution instead of the bible during his inauguration.Because I do not think it is okay for our President to talk about women the way he has.Because people still keep asking if me and my husband are going to have children when it is none of their business.Because people call the signs left behind after the March trash without thinking of the perspective of the person who carried that sign. Because people marginalize the word feminism as a negative term and call Feminist’s “man-hating lesbians”.Because my husband supports me and is a feminist.Because the conservative majority has already started the work to limit access for low income families to get access to health care at a singled-out non-profit doctor’s office.Because the pay gap does exist.Because I believe laws should not restrict what a woman can do with her body.Because Fascism and Nationalism go hand and hand and the way I interpret our President comes off very authoritative. Because our President wants to start a Muslim registry.Because there are humans in this world suffering and we can/should help them by accepting them into our country.Because voicing descent or objecting to the current political swing is Democracy.Because both sides dehumanize and vilify the other and we can’t speak to one another.Because people think they are more “American” than me for whatever reason.Because I have a voice and I want it to be heard.

Fuckin A that is beautiful. Thank you SO much for posting.

And my husband is a proud feminist too. Nothing sexier to me.

And to all you guys on this thread who get it too....I'm trying not to "act like a girl" and be all emotional. But thanks for understanding and not continuing to marginalize our efforts. Men on the march with us on Saturday were the most meaningful thing I saw. Even though some of the signs were pretty funny.

My grandmother asked me why I marched so I really thought about it and started writing some reasons down. I may get quite a bit of flack for this - but here are my personal reasons for why I marched:Because this morning on the radio while driving to work, the local radio host talked about the women’s marches as huge gaggles of women to hook up with, like they were prey to feast upon for a single man. “Just say you support Planned Parenthood and then you’ll be needing Planned Parenthood”.Because I’m afraid to go for a run at night around my neighborhood – merely because I am a woman.Because victims of rape and violence are still shamed and blamed for the crimes committed against them. “Why don’t you just leave?” “Were you wearing something short?”Because those who commit those crimes are given inappropriate, short sentences compared to the life of pain and trauma for their victim. Because it isn’t an issue of political correctness, it’s an issue of respect and common decency. Because people called Michelle Obama an ape or a transvestite. Because my Mother proved to me that a woman can be strong and smart.Because people focus on what Hillary or Melania wore, instead of what they say or do. Because women are told to “smile” – accept my resting bitch face as it is.Because women are expected to wear makeup and shave body hair. When they don’t it is “disgusting” or “ugly”. Because my Aunts deserve to marry each other.Because I want the President to put his hand on the Constitution instead of the bible during his inauguration.Because I do not think it is okay for our President to talk about women the way he has.Because people still keep asking if me and my husband are going to have children when it is none of their business.Because people call the signs left behind after the March trash without thinking of the perspective of the person who carried that sign. Because people marginalize the word feminism as a negative term and call Feminist’s “man-hating lesbians”.Because my husband supports me and is a feminist.Because the conservative majority has already started the work to limit access for low income families to get access to health care at a singled-out non-profit doctor’s office.Because the pay gap does exist.Because I believe laws should not restrict what a woman can do with her body.Because Fascism and Nationalism go hand and hand and the way I interpret our President comes off very authoritative. Because our President wants to start a Muslim registry.Because there are humans in this world suffering and we can/should help them by accepting them into our country.Because voicing descent or objecting to the current political swing is Democracy.Because both sides dehumanize and vilify the other and we can’t speak to one another.Because people think they are more “American” than me for whatever reason.Because I have a voice and I want it to be heard.

Fuckin A that is beautiful. Thank you SO much for posting.

And my husband is a proud feminist too. Nothing sexier to me.

And to all you guys on this thread who get it too....I'm trying not to "act like a girl" and be all emotional. But thanks for understanding and not continuing to marginalize our efforts. Men on the march with us on Saturday were the most meaningful thing I saw. Even though some of the signs were pretty funny.

It was beautiful, and well-written. But always remember that "feminism" and "dissent" are both alike in that they can take many forms.

I happen to feel I'm a feminist too. I have a wife and two daughters, and I wish them every opportunity and success that they can achieve, and more importantly every opportunity and success that a MAN in the same position could achieve. No more, no less.

But that doesn't change that we all sit in a particular context, a context where all our rights compete and sometimes compromises need to be made in terms of priorities. I did not vote for Trump, and do not support many of his policies. As much as the time is right for a woman to be President, it's not HILLARY'S time. You want to be heard, that's noble and right. And just and deserved.

Just like you don't want to be recognized only for your bra size, or how those jeans look on you, so must we all contemplate all sides of the arguments, and understand that not everyone prioritizes things the same way. I support everything you wrote, and I am in ever-increasing debt each day to make sure that my daughters have all the tools necessary to compete at whatever level they desire. But I don't support the implications of that march, I don't support the lies and subterfuge that went into organizing that march, and I don't necessarily agree that Trump is to blame for this or is the only person standing in the way of what we might call progress. We have the right to these discussions, and what rights we share as men and women is in large part because of the general prosperity of our country. If we don't first focus on those things that lift all HUMANS, we can't even get to the things that lift all WOMEN, let alone the other special interests that we must look out for in one form or another.

I would just like to state that the pay gap does indeed exist. It's been supported by numerous studies that factor in experience, diploma, performance scores, etc. Women simply get paid less for doing the same job. Period.

That alone is something to be legitimately pissed at.

Logged

“The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.”

How many of the 4 million woman in that march have disrespected themselves by having one night stands with complete strangers? Yeah I know, its there choice to cheapen themselves...

Do you lecture men about cheapening and disrespecting themselves by having one-night stands with complete strangers?

Nope. Hense the fact Trumps pussy comment doesn't make him most despicable guy out there, unworthy of forgiveness . I'm just asking these marching woman to consider they ain't perfect either and have said and done stuff they wish they hadn't.

Stadler, I have wanted to state for months that I would love to sit down over a couple of drinks and discuss politics and law (even though my well informed political knowledge may be slightly behind, but my law knowledge pales to yours considerably)....

Sorry that I erred on the .000000001 % as to funding for abortions. Call it 'alternative truth.'

btw, where in the heck did I mention Sessions in this thread?<nowhere>

"And, his name is spelled '........'"

Sorry, but I use the family name as they came to America. Remember, the current occupant refused to acknowledge the FACT that the former president was born in America....until late October, twenty sixteen.

Never said a word about Carter, Ford, Reagan, Bush, Clinton or Bush's birthplace. Geez, wonder why? Did skin color enter into this?Hmnnnn..........

Nope. Hense the fact Trumps pussy comment doesn't make him most despicable guy out there, unworthy of forgiveness . I'm just asking these marching woman to consider they ain't perfect either and have said and done stuff they wish they hadn't.

Well, there is one major difference. Trump was bragging about getting away with non-consensual sexual assault and possibly rape.

Having a one-night stand with a willing participant is not a crime.

Logged

“The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.”

Sorry, but I use the family name as they came to America. Remember, the current occupant refused to acknowledge the FACT that the former president was born in America....until late October, twenty sixteen.

Never said a word about Carter, Ford, Reagan, Bush, Clinton or Bush's birthplace. Geez, wonder why? Did skin color enter into this?Hmnnnn..........

That has nothing to do with how people are to conduct civil debate on this forum. So knock that off.

Logged

"The Supreme Court of the United States has descended from the disciplined legal reasoning of John Marshall and Joseph Story to the mystical aphorisms of the fortune cookie."

Nope. Hense the fact Trumps pussy comment doesn't make him most despicable guy out there, unworthy of forgiveness . I'm just asking these marching woman to consider they ain't perfect either and have said and done stuff they wish they hadn't.

Well, there is one major difference. Trump was bragging about getting away with non-consensual sexual assault and possibly rape.

Having a one-night stand with a willing participant is not a crime.

He said "he could" not "he did" No evidence says he actually grabbed a woman's vagina. He didn't give a confession, he made a boastful macho bullshit statement. We done?