Argument With a Creationist

So I went into a creationist DeviantArt group to see if they had any good arguments to hold up their silliness...and of course, they didn't.

I went in respectful; I was honestly just trying to see what their argument was for why they don't think evolution works, and why they think dinos coexisted with people...because I can't even make that leap of logic.

I got shut down pretty quickly by the leader of the group, who insisted that I was a troll for disagreeing with them and putting up an argument to counter theirs.

What I found in this rather lengthy conversation (at least 12 pages back and forth) with this guy was this:

- Many creationists think that atheism =communism.

- Many creationists think that atheism= immorality...which I find funny, because his criteria for being a 'good christian' would make me a pretty good one, aside from absolute belief. (no abortions, no core partying, no drinking, no drugs etc)

- He thought that evolution was part of a belief system/atheism. (atheism=religion, according to them)

- Evolution is false because nobody was there to witness the beginning

- Evolution is false because they confuse it with spontaneous generation (Jeez, at the end of the convo he STILL didn't want to acknowledge that he had the two confused)

- The spontaneous generation argument; complex life comes out of nothing. (stupid.)

- Evolution in science class is violating their freedom of religion because it's an 'atheists' point of view.'

- They think that creationism should be taught 'as an option,' with evolution...in philosophy class.

- They think that, because we want evolution in science class, (an actual science) we are cultural marxists that want to use the government to further our beliefs (no shit. he actually called me that, several times, and the irony in the statement couldn't be spread any thicker)

- They think they're right because...the bible says so. Everything else is wrong...it doesn't matter how much proof you have.

- When I brought up the arks' impossibilities, along with Adam and Eve, he shrugged off the science because it had to be wrong...why? Because the bible says it happened. And if the bible says it happened, it happened. That was his logic. That's it.

- This one made me laugh; I brought up the talking snake in Eden. He said it was plausible because the oxygen/atmosphere back then was thicker and it could have effected a snakes vocal cords, giving it the ability to speak. (this he took from me, when he said how come humans couldn't have existed with dinos. The oxygen was much too potent for humans back then)

The hilarious part of this is that he used science to back up his supposition when he completely disregarded any science because it disagreed with his biblical account.

...meaning they only accept science as fact when it is convenient for them. Unfortunately, that is nothing new. I've seen this one happen almost hundreds of times.

They twist fact to fit the bible, not change their thoughts to fit the facts.

- All atheists are 'emo cutters' as he called it, because we don't have god in our lives. He went further on this subject to say that suicidal people are some kind of corrupt people and made them out to be terrible people. This was particularly insulting to me because I've known many people who ended their own lives...and his complete lack of compassion, as a Christian, was downright fucked up and hypocritical.

- All atheists want to push their views on others; this 'pushing of views' is us wanting equal rights, I found out. By not wanting religion in government is a communistic/fascist approach.

- All of the founders were Christian and they did not want separation of church and state. I showed them evidence to counter it, but they disregarded it completely because they thought we were founded on Christianity. I countered that with the treaty of tripoli, and they called me a fascist. I took that as a win for me.

-Finally, they disregard scientific fact because it is all 'subjective', and can all be seen differently from different perspectives. (branching from their silliness about dating fossils and missing links)

This directly contradicts their absolutism of laws and history, according to biblical laws and such. If they think EVERYTHING is subjective, then that means any god is just as plausible as their god. NO god is just as plausible...which means your faith is almost nonexistent...which is blasphemy.

And let's not forget that science is objective. Meaning it can't be subjective.

Overall, I've come to see how many contradictions this religion really has.

It's so full of holes, there's hardly any substance at all.

Furthermore, most of them don't know what atheists believe, and don't know that political views aren't associated with atheism.

The worst part of this is that, after this really long discussion with him, he wouldn't change his mind on a damned thing. I presented loads of evidence, politely noted that he was mistaken in the realm of knowing what evolution is...and none of it really got through.

With all due respect, David, openly discussing an opposing point of view shouldn’t be considered brave, even if he sought out and initiated the discussion. Instead it should expected that people (especially atheists) engage in discussion about their beliefs. Anything worth believing is worth fighting for.

It should be expected that you’ll educate yourself and examine various points about your beliefs (for and against them). If, in this process, you have to engage others of opposing views to get the information you seek, it should be expected that you do so. If your position is attacked by those from which you seek knowledge, you should take a stand and defend your beliefs. Standing up for oneself shouldn’t be applauded any more than we should applaud a child for completing their homework. Giving accolades for a behavior that should be expected doesn’t do anyone any favors.

Furthermore, the discussion took place in an anonymous internet forum. It’s not like he walked into the middle of a Klan meeting and attempted to discuss religion with them.

Please don’t take this as a personal attack. I just feel that we, as atheists, have an obligation to ourselves to be fearless in our beliefs. We’ll never progress personally or collectively if we live in fear of opposition.

Got about half way through and I am assuming the rest is basically similar... Sounds like this guy was mostly just spouting out the standard apologetics without so much as a brain cell prepared to back up his statements. To be fair, you sought him out so he probably isn't the sort of person we would normally debate with. Overall, just further acknowledgement that allot of people just don't think about their religion (among other important topics) and are quite happy to be sheeple.

Whenever I try something like this I normally have to let some comments like this slide because it takes too long to explain (using small words) to them why they are wrong and where they went wrong. I even got a theist to agree to me on all steps of one of my arguements that lead me to declare that 'jesus was an atheist at birth and continued to be so for a several years' in all but the conclusion. Really they just care about the answers and only if they are THEIR answers and will do anything to get to them, including lying, misrepresenting, sterotyping, etc.

I even saw part of a creationist video that said that evolution due to 'random chance' is too improbable therefore god. It gave massive statisitics against the random formation of a benifical protein that you find in MODERN cells. They did not even mention that this was never in any abiogenesis theory or DNA or RNA. It's all slight of hand to them; distract you with something flashy in one hand while they squeeze out your brain with a pitchfork in the other.

WOW...i am going thru these kinds of debates alot these days, due to the shock of the people around me; some family and some friends; at my realization in the last year and a half that i am in fact an atheist. It is definitely a frustrating conversation if the other party just dismisses the mountains of facts i bring up, but whatever, LOL! I am proud to say that i feel more at peace, and freer than i EVER was when i was a "believer" (in quotations because i never bought into all the fantasy mythology of religion).

I say keep it up - well done! Presenting the evidence for evolution to creationists and debating them can be a tiresome and seemingly rewardless job. I don't do it anymore as I don't have the patience for it. However, all it takes is a thought--seed to grow into their minds, causing some cognitive dissonace, and from then on, it's mission accomplished.

I don't often seek religious people out for debate, as it's too often like slamming your head against a brick wall; they'll just never listen, no matter how much evidence you give them.

But sometimes, I just can't help myself. Especially when they are so flamboyant when it comes to their silly belief.

And so angry and hateful towards people that want to ask questions that don't have such an easy answer as "in the bible, it says here...."

I detest people who are afraid to think. I hate it even more when they try to bully others to do the same. That's why I went in asking questions; to show that it's not an evil thing.

I also wanted to see if they offered any NEW arguments that I hadn't heard before, but they didn't.

Alot of responses to this suggest that I instigated a fight/argument...well, why should atheism or questioning their beliefs be frowned upon? How is that an aggressive move?

I've been asked many times WHY I believe what I do...or don't believe.

It's a good thing that people want to know; and its fortunate that they'd be willing to listen to you voice your thoughts.

I see nothing wrong with asking these things. I see nothing wrong with religious people coming here to thinkatheist and asking questions...even if they know there's not a chance in hell they'll change their mind.

I see it in the same light.

I went there for a few questions answered...questions they didn't want to answer.