Responding to Believers' "Difficult" Questions About Atheism - Atheist Nexus2018-02-22T05:35:10Zhttp://atheistnexus.org/forum/topics/responding-to-believers-difficult-questions-about-atheism?commentId=2182797%3AComment%3A2227046&xg_source=activity&feed=yes&xn_auth=noWe need stories, based on rea…tag:atheistnexus.org,2013-05-09:2182797:Comment:22295982013-05-09T06:01:34.898ZJoan Denoohttp://atheistnexus.org/profile/JoanDenoo
<p>We need stories, based on reality and critical thinking to replace delusions of religious fears and hopes. There are so many interesting and inspiring stories in science and physics, especially as told by Brian Cox, a British particle physicist, a Royal Society University Research Fellow, PPARC Advanced Fellow and Professor at the University of Manchester. Wikipedia<br></br> Cox, Brian + In Search of Giants (in 15 parts)…<br></br></p>
<p>We need stories, based on reality and critical thinking to replace delusions of religious fears and hopes. There are so many interesting and inspiring stories in science and physics, especially as told by Brian Cox, a British particle physicist, a Royal Society University Research Fellow, PPARC Advanced Fellow and Professor at the University of Manchester. Wikipedia<br/> Cox, Brian + In Search of Giants (in 15 parts)<br/>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPblR4bWCoxmz2U3YGbNDOVu4cJ4mRteZ" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPblR4bWCoxmz2U3YGbNDOVu4cJ4mRteZ</a></p> Joan, I have a slightly more…tag:atheistnexus.org,2013-05-09:2182797:Comment:22296672013-05-09T04:02:29.535Ztom sarbeckhttp://atheistnexus.org/profile/TomSarbeck
<p>Joan, I have a slightly more optimistic view of the future. It's based in part on Winston Churchill's saying that democracy is the worst form of government there is, except for all the other kinds we've tried.</p>
<p>Having chosen to have no offspring I am less personally invested than most people. Because I think I was gifted (or burdened with) more than my share of empathy, some of what I foresee pains me. But only some of it; much encourages me.</p>
<p>Have you ever heard of economic /…</p>
<p>Joan, I have a slightly more optimistic view of the future. It's based in part on Winston Churchill's saying that democracy is the worst form of government there is, except for all the other kinds we've tried.</p>
<p>Having chosen to have no offspring I am less personally invested than most people. Because I think I was gifted (or burdened with) more than my share of empathy, some of what I foresee pains me. But only some of it; much encourages me.</p>
<p>Have you ever heard of economic / political / social change as humankind's slowly coming up from the slime of our pond scum past?</p>
<p>I think it a valid metaphor. For one instance of many, the short period of progressive change in the early 1900s made differences in the lives of my own parents: child labor laws, pure food and drug laws, and much more.</p>
<p>Yeah, the current crop of Repubs want to take America back to before those reforms. I regularly tell Repubs I know that they want to restore the law of the jungle (which exaggerates somewhat). Depending on my opponent's commitment to restoring that law, I might add that we came out of that jungle because rulers feared assassination (which also exaggerates somewhat).</p>
<p>American capitalism is indeed cruel; I believe our offspring will remedy its cruelties with employee ownership and operation of their workplaces. It's well along now; something more than 11,000 businesses are owned and operated by employees. The profits, instead of going to Wall Street gambling addicts and sociopaths, will go to the employee-owners.</p>
<p>Yes, frightened people will seek security. Unfrightened people will seek progress.</p>
<p>Ma and Pa Nature won't "just get rid of us."</p>
<p>They will rid the world of many of our offspring, perhaps in another mass extinction, but it won't start and finish in 24 hours.</p>
<p>Enough for now.</p>
<p></p> Joan, I am truly impressed by…tag:atheistnexus.org,2013-05-09:2182797:Comment:22295612013-05-09T00:57:46.949ZAlan Perlmanhttp://atheistnexus.org/profile/AlanPerlman
<p>Joan, I am truly impressed by the eloquent manifesto in your recent/previous post. And yes, we must reverse religion's progress and loosen its grip on humanity before it's too late (and it almost is).</p>
<p>Joan, I am truly impressed by the eloquent manifesto in your recent/previous post. And yes, we must reverse religion's progress and loosen its grip on humanity before it's too late (and it almost is).</p> As to language development, w…tag:atheistnexus.org,2013-05-08:2182797:Comment:22294832013-05-08T22:48:49.175ZJoan Denoohttp://atheistnexus.org/profile/JoanDenoo
<p>As to language development, when I was a very small child, my month older cousin called our grandmother "Mambo" because she couldn't say grandma. Five other younger cousins all called her Mambo as they came along. Everyone understood the meaning of the name and even adults called her Mambo. Thus language changes. </p>
<p>I remember the first time I called her "Grandma" I was afraid because I thought something bad would happen to me. I can't remember what.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>As to language development, when I was a very small child, my month older cousin called our grandmother "Mambo" because she couldn't say grandma. Five other younger cousins all called her Mambo as they came along. Everyone understood the meaning of the name and even adults called her Mambo. Thus language changes. </p>
<p>I remember the first time I called her "Grandma" I was afraid because I thought something bad would happen to me. I can't remember what.</p>
<p> </p> Alan, it may be true that Sam…tag:atheistnexus.org,2013-05-08:2182797:Comment:22293012013-05-08T22:38:53.722ZJoan Denoohttp://atheistnexus.org/profile/JoanDenoo
<p>Alan, it may be true that Sam Harris, or others, may not change the minds of their opposition at debates, however, debaters have a memorized script, delivering a message that reflects their self-interests, which they defend with all their ability in order to keep their social standing among the sacrificial sheep and keep their income flowing. </p>
<p>That is why we need to stop pubic funding of religious projects, prevent the mingling of church and state, and challenge openly those who…</p>
<p>Alan, it may be true that Sam Harris, or others, may not change the minds of their opposition at debates, however, debaters have a memorized script, delivering a message that reflects their self-interests, which they defend with all their ability in order to keep their social standing among the sacrificial sheep and keep their income flowing. </p>
<p>That is why we need to stop pubic funding of religious projects, prevent the mingling of church and state, and challenge openly those who distort facts and tell silly stories. </p> I have real concern about the…tag:atheistnexus.org,2013-05-08:2182797:Comment:22294162013-05-08T22:28:56.805ZJoan Denoohttp://atheistnexus.org/profile/JoanDenoo
<p>I have real concern about the younger generation. Many want and expect the kind of lives we have created since the end of The Great Depression and WWII, and it is just not going to happen. It is all too clear, the numbers of people wanting work, and the number of jobs just do not match and probably never will again. After the war, we had a shortage of labor, but no more. </p>
<p>Waging war, hoping to give more people paid-work, only compounds the problems, leaving behind wounded and dead…</p>
<p>I have real concern about the younger generation. Many want and expect the kind of lives we have created since the end of The Great Depression and WWII, and it is just not going to happen. It is all too clear, the numbers of people wanting work, and the number of jobs just do not match and probably never will again. After the war, we had a shortage of labor, but no more. </p>
<p>Waging war, hoping to give more people paid-work, only compounds the problems, leaving behind wounded and dead bodies and destroyed cultures who are mad at us already. </p>
<p>Robots and technology take many jobs away from workers, lack of solid education in math and sciences and technology, and ill-prepared applicants will only lead to more unemployment and more discord. My real fear is a despot will exploit the frustration of unemployed and underemployed, and a worse political system will emerge, facilitated by silly superstitions of a savior coming to relieve their stress.</p>
<p>This is why we have to awaken a sense of wonder in our Earth and universe, inspire interest in math and science, even as the liberal arts can reveal the wonders of what is and what is at risk by our consumer mentality. We are at a tipping point, religious mythology is only one part of it, but one that has to be challenged. </p>
<p>For those who want to be accommodationists, they lack the sense of urgency. </p>
<p>For those who are militant, such as myself, we do more harm than good; people run toward security if they are afraid, only prolonging the agony. </p>
<p>For those who can take a stand, defend it, be persuasive, and who can offer a more reasonable alternative, there may be some progress.</p>
<p>If we do nothing, Mother Nature will solve the problems for everyone and just get rid of us </p> Tom, Once upon a time the peo…tag:atheistnexus.org,2013-05-08:2182797:Comment:22294622013-05-08T17:14:41.185ZAlan Perlmanhttp://atheistnexus.org/profile/AlanPerlman
<p>Tom, Once upon a time the people interested in language were mainly philologists and etymologists, concerned with the historical relationships (newly-discovered, 18th century) between the better-known and written-down languages of Europe and those of the subcontinent, most of which seemed to have a common ancestor. </p>
<p>Then linguist/anthropologists like Edward Sapir and Franz Boaz began exploring the notion that, lo and behold, the languages of illiterate native populations had grammar…</p>
<p>Tom, Once upon a time the people interested in language were mainly philologists and etymologists, concerned with the historical relationships (newly-discovered, 18th century) between the better-known and written-down languages of Europe and those of the subcontinent, most of which seemed to have a common ancestor. </p>
<p>Then linguist/anthropologists like Edward Sapir and Franz Boaz began exploring the notion that, lo and behold, the languages of illiterate native populations had grammar too, just as complex as Greek and Latin! </p>
<p>The 4% was just a take on Tyson. I just know that we know very little compared to what there is to know.</p>
<p>Before written records started to appear, language was around for millennia. I don't know that anybody has any solid data or compelling theories on how language originated and developed from primitive signalling systems. </p>
<p>My guess is that nouns appeared first, accompanied by gestures. Then came verbs and grammatical relations. Like evolution itself, this process must been incredibly slow, though groups with more fully developed languages had a tremendous advantage over those who didn't. My #1 pick for a time-travel visit would be to see primitive humans communicating - but that's just me.</p>
<p>We still have traces of the connection between sound and gesture: when given the nonsense words <em>kiki</em> and <em>moomow</em> (or something like that), subjects predominantly guess that the former refers to a sharp object.</p>
<p>There are important, qualitative differences between human language and the way computers and animals communicate (I too was doing computer-syntax research in the late 60s). Briefly, computers have no consciousness or awareness of context or purpose, and animals seem not to have evolved beyond emotional cries and (perhaps) elementary symbology. </p>
<p>Over the years, I've followed attempts to teach chimps to speak (including one waggishly named Nim Chimpsky); the animals have a very hard time getting from naming to the simplest syntax.</p> Christy, thanks for trying.
Y…tag:atheistnexus.org,2013-05-07:2182797:Comment:22289382013-05-07T22:34:36.222Ztom sarbeckhttp://atheistnexus.org/profile/TomSarbeck
<p>Christy, thanks for trying.</p>
<p>Your replies beat the sox off those I heard in Catholic schools.</p>
<p>Now will start the fining tuning here.</p>
<p>Be kind to y'self,</p>
<p>Cat #### in the herd.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Christy, thanks for trying.</p>
<p>Your replies beat the sox off those I heard in Catholic schools.</p>
<p>Now will start the fining tuning here.</p>
<p>Be kind to y'self,</p>
<p>Cat #### in the herd.</p>
<p></p> Loren, I don't see Tyson as a…tag:atheistnexus.org,2013-05-07:2182797:Comment:22285042013-05-07T20:50:05.378ZIdaho Spudhttp://atheistnexus.org/profile/IdahoSpud
<p>Loren, I don't see Tyson as arrogant either, and I'm sensitive to arrogant. I can't stand egotism.</p>
<p>When I first saw him on science programs I thought his excitement for the subject went overboard because overly dramatic people rub me the wrong way. I usually like my facts straightforward and presented in a calm manner.</p>
<p>However, as I've come to appreciate the man and his intelligence, his excitement bothers me very little now. I agree that he is a showman and think we need…</p>
<p>Loren, I don't see Tyson as arrogant either, and I'm sensitive to arrogant. I can't stand egotism.</p>
<p>When I first saw him on science programs I thought his excitement for the subject went overboard because overly dramatic people rub me the wrong way. I usually like my facts straightforward and presented in a calm manner.</p>
<p>However, as I've come to appreciate the man and his intelligence, his excitement bothers me very little now. I agree that he is a showman and think we need some showmen for science, even though I'm not one.</p> Thank you David. And thank yo…tag:atheistnexus.org,2013-05-07:2182797:Comment:22287242013-05-07T14:18:35.507ZJohn "Jack" Kolinskihttp://atheistnexus.org/profile/JohnJackKolinski
<p>Thank you David. And thank you to EVERYBODY who has turned this discussion into such a fascinating learning experience for me! I haven't gone back to figure out the first mention of Dr. Tyson, but have thoroughly enjoyed the various viewpoints. What I find interesting is that virtually everything the commenters are saying here about Dr. Tyson was previously said about Carl Sagan. ALL famous people who discuss science are subject to controversy. Look at the Christian apologists who trot out…</p>
<p>Thank you David. And thank you to EVERYBODY who has turned this discussion into such a fascinating learning experience for me! I haven't gone back to figure out the first mention of Dr. Tyson, but have thoroughly enjoyed the various viewpoints. What I find interesting is that virtually everything the commenters are saying here about Dr. Tyson was previously said about Carl Sagan. ALL famous people who discuss science are subject to controversy. Look at the Christian apologists who trot out Einstein's quotes about "God." I just watched one on Youtube the other day and Sam Harris made a fool out of him.</p>
<p>Finally (at least for now!), I like the fact that WE have 97% of scientists on our side and Xianity has William Lane Craig and Neo-Nazi popes on their side. I concede we're not winning fast enough but we are winning! Keep the Fai. . . oops! HAHAHA</p>