So, Faq is growing nicely, with Jillian playing double puppet to Transylvito and Charlie. Well, she was always good at taking orders and less fit as Queen anyways.

Calling Jillian a puppet is both unfair, and inaccurate. A puppet MUST obey the puppet master. Jillian has both the right and ability, already exercised, to refuse. Ergo, she is puppet to no-one. Don and Charley are benefactors not puppet masters. The relationship is based on reciprocation not subjugation.

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ADDED: does nobody post here before even reading the update?! What kind of forum is this, people?!

I like this forum

Albatross! wrote:

I'm a bit disappointed, though; for a second I thought Jillian had actually worked out how to be a Queen, but then it turns out to be Charlie's idea. Ah well...I do wonder how things will go for her and Faq, being stuck working for two sides that distrust each other at best? And having a lover on one side, no less! Fun times.

A good leader is not someone that knows all the answers already, but one that listens to advice. In fact, it's been said that the you can tell the quality of a ruler by the quality of the advisers the ruler consults. Don and Charley have much more experience leading a side competently, so listening to their advice is highly recommended for any newbie ruler. The thing about listening to advice, eventually Jillian won't even have to ask Don or Charley for advice anymore because she would have learned how they think. WWCD or WWDD, It's at that point where someone can ask themselves this type of question, about someone who's opinion they value, and answer it for themselves that they come unto their own. Jillian is not just blindly following orders. She's following advice and learning for herself why that advice is effective, so that later she can take the initiative and use these strategies as part of her own plans. The fact that Jillian takes this advice and doesn't just tell Don and Charley to bugger off speaks well for her future potential.

Dancing Cthulhu wrote:

Furousha wrote:

Personally, I've utterd "I hate you" more times than i can remember when a friend beats me in a game or camps and gets a cheap shot on me in a shooter... I dont actually hate them. To me the comment Charlie made was not so much a statement of fact "Parson I hate your guts and I never want anything to do with you ever again!!!" as it was just a (mostly) friendly jab because Charlie was frustrated. I dont think every little thing that is said should nessicarily be taken completely litterally and at face value, especially when it's coming out of Charlie or Parson's mouth...

I agree. Heh, Charlie should have used a smiley to clear up this kind of confusion.

I NEVER put a smiley face after telling someone I hate them and I've never seen someone smile, or give a smiley face after this kind of statement. Context should clear up any confusion. When I tell someone I hate them because of something they do in game, it's a shallow, transient hate, that lasts until I get revenge or the game ends.

_________________Unbreakable. Does not receive leadership penalties, Loyalty, or morale hits due to delays, imperfections, vacations, breaks, filler days, or retcons. All such debuffs, if somehow applied, are reduced to 0. - ShaneTheBrain

Last edited by Infidel on Thu Oct 29, 2009 2:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Charlie has over 120 Archons on hand along with 700 golems if Charlie wanted to wipe GK off the map he could easily considering. Keep in mind Charlie is not hurting for cash as he is hired out all over Erfworld farther out then most people even believe Erfworld expands to. This is also the number he had on hand when they were croaked....

You have a bizzare definition for easy. If Charlie would send ALL he has in his city right now, chances are it would be an even match, numeric-wise, to GK. The rule of thumb for sieges is 3 times more than your opponent (since defenses add bonuses etc).

This does not include the decrypted.

Also, Charlie has no warlords. We know from Parson's analysis of combat that bonus are power multipliers. Charlie can't just throw 150 Archons w/out leadership at GK, because Stanley + Arkenhammer + Tower Defenses + Dwagons would, in all likelihood, eat them alive.

What was an Archon, really? A flying knight-class unit with a random special from the set of: dance fighting, leadership, and limited forms of Shockmancy, Thinkamancy, Dollamancy and Foolamancy. As Archons leveled, they could gain additional random specials from that set. There were four of them with the dance fighting, leadership and Foolamancy abilities at the Battle for Gobwin Knob, and these were able to lead the Coalition's dance fight. Charlescomm did not volunteer this strategy, but Ansom knew to ask.

People really should read what Archons can do they have random specials they get as they level.

Dance Fighting Leadership limited Casting Abilities and as they level they get stronger with more abilities. Lets not forget Charlies artifact bonus + leadership bonus....

The only reason Charlie doesn't do something like that is people will become aware of just how powerful he really is.

Calling Jillian a puppet is both unfair, and inaccurate. A puppet MUST obey the puppet master. Jillian has both the right and ability, already exercised, to refuse. Ergo, she is puppet to no-one. Don and Charley are benefactors not puppet masters. The relationship is based on reciprocation not subjugation.

Ok, my bad. Calling her a spoilt child is both fair and accurate though. She's still the brash barbarian with little desire to think stuff through on the larger scale. So, she lets others do that heavy lifting for her, and picks the suggestions that allow her to continue/validate her loose cannon tendencies.

Also, I hate your guts

(ahem, to be clear, that wasn't serious, just an experiment to mix a confrontational sentence with a context inappropriate smiley. The Kool-Aid man image would have been better. Let's call this experiment a fail and leave it there)

Decorus, that bit of text also says that archons need to level, and that the specials are limited, and that the specials are gained randomly. By any stretch, it would not be easy for Charlie to just waltz in anywhere, or else he would have done so already. For one, we have no idea how many Archons he has with leadership, or with dance-fight, or a combo.

Still, you make an interesting point with the archon leadership special. If you have enough archons with it, all reinforcing the other ... should be some exploitable mechanic in there, and probably the reason Charlie keeps making the damn things. Leadership archons just might be "rare".

_________________The whole point of this is lost if you keep it a secret.

Calling Jillian a puppet is both unfair, and inaccurate. A puppet MUST obey the puppet master. Jillian has both the right and ability, already exercised, to refuse. Ergo, she is puppet to no-one. Don and Charley are benefactors not puppet masters. The relationship is based on reciprocation not subjugation.

Ok, my bad. Calling her a spoilt child is both fair and accurate though. She's still the brash barbarian with little desire to think stuff through on the larger scale. So, she lets others do that heavy lifting for her, and picks the suggestions that allow her to continue/validate her loose cannon tendencies.

true, true. Protagonists have to start somewhere though.

Quote:

Also, I hate your guts

(ahem, to be clear, that wasn't serious, just an experiment to mix a confrontational sentence with a context inappropriate smiley. The Kool-Aid man image would have been better. Let's call this experiment a fail and leave it there)

I would have got it without the smiley and disclaimer. I laughed actually.

_________________Unbreakable. Does not receive leadership penalties, Loyalty, or morale hits due to delays, imperfections, vacations, breaks, filler days, or retcons. All such debuffs, if somehow applied, are reduced to 0. - ShaneTheBrain

Vinny had his feet on the tower as she lifted skyward. She saw her armada filling the sky with yellow death, and thought it would almost be easier that way.

... is she aiming for Transylvito?!

I wondered about that at first, but it feels too farfetched to me. Charlie is a charismatic guy that convinced Julian to go along with his plan even when she didn't trust him, but having her turn on her closest ally at Charlie's suggestion would be taking that to an unworkable extreme. What would she get out of attacking TV, especially when Don King is already financing her to such a degree?

Jillian likes to fight, but she's never had any quarrel with Don King. She does hate Stanley, though, and TV is already dedicated to fighting Stanley. I can't see how anything Charlie could offer would make attacking TV add up. I think it's more likely that Jillian's foreboding has to do with confronting Ansom/Wanda than it does with attacking her benefactor.

I NEVER put a smiley face after telling someone I hate them and I've never seen someone smile, or give a smiley face after this kind of statement. Context should clear up any confusion. When I tell someone I hate them because of something they do in game, it's a shallow, transient hate, that lasts until I get revenge or the game ends.

By the way, I could totally see Happy Bunnies as a type of units in Erfworld.

Ok, my bad. Calling her a spoilt child is both fair and accurate though.

Amen, brother.

Also, the 100 Archons with leadership bonuses are intriguing, but I'm willing to bet that it's the same "type" of combat bonus, the hex just gets the highest leadership bonus. The other archons could get their bonus with any stacks they are leading. Theoretically. Again, they aren't warlords or "true" casters. They may have no bonus and the Leadership special just means they can lead units similar to warlords and casters.

I'm pretty sure they have a bonus when leading troops if they have a leadership bonus they give to troops, just not as high as that given by a Warlord of equal level. They would also stack just like Wanda giving a bonus to decrypted and Ansom giving a bonus to decrypted.

Archons are the jack of all trades special knight types with some casting some leadership some dancefighting its why Charlie only pops Archons as thier flexiblity makes them more useful then having a limited number and a massive army. During the Siege Charlie specificly asked if 15 archons were enough to take GK so from experience Charlie thought that 15 would be enough by themselves... Then he asked how many it would take just so Charlie could gather more if needed. That should give you an idea of what 150 together would be like since Charlie from experience thought 15 would take a relatively well defended lvl 5 capitol.

I NEVER put a smiley face after telling someone I hate them and I've never seen someone smile, or give a smiley face after this kind of statement. Context should clear up any confusion. When I tell someone I hate them because of something they do in game, it's a shallow, transient hate, that lasts until I get revenge or the game ends.

By the way, I could totally see Happy Bunnies as a type of units in Erfworld.

To heck with that, I'd love to see the Lapinohemoths from the Girl Genius 'Revenge of the Weasel Queen' play . . . totally UNHAPPY bunnies!

_________________The Truth Will Set You Free. But First It Will Piss You Off.

Dang, Ros. I hate to argue with you. I really do. But I want a dollar everytime anyone says "obviously" on these boards. Along the same vein, Charlie did not black-and-white say he hates Parson. He asked a rhetorical question about Parson's banter.

I think there's a difference between discuss, debate, and argue, and I trust we are discussing! I should very much dislike engaging anyone in an activity distasteful to him, and I shall endeavor not to do so.

I agree with your interpretation of Charlie's statement as primarily banter.

Primarily. Parson has clearly become a serious concern of Charlie's. How many times must an Overlord be thwarted to become resentful? For Stanley, it's once. For Charlie? Parson has outright defeated him (gotta hurt), shown that Charlie's aid is not the indispensable silver bullet Charlie like to portray it as (gotta hurt more), and has access to great insight regarding Charlie, his operations, and his clients (and that makes the other hurts feel like love taps in comparison). Smart people don't like being outsmarted. People who make their living outsmarting other people REALLY don't like being outsmarted.

So I think there's a little more truth to that last statement than Charlie would admit, even - and especially - if he meant it as banter.

Oh wait nope he won completely obliterated the Army including 28 Archons....Charlie wouldn't have asked Parson if 15 could take GK if Charlie didn't think it could...Charlie can ask the same question and Parson is obligated to answer so Charlie at any time could find out exactly how many he would need to take GK without a single loss then cover most of his revenue losses from raizing GK.

The Giants baseball and Starbucks references got me thinking. Are the similarities between Erfworld and Earth continuous or based on a one-time dump juxtiposition of the two worlds? What I mean is, if Starbucks were to suddenly change their logo to, say, blue instead of green, would the Jitterati logo also change? Would it be instant or would the Titans/fate come up with some reason for the logo to change? Or would the logo stay the same in Erfworld, losing the resemblance to Starbucks logos. Same thing applies to all of the strange similarities between the two worlds.

If we had some idea how old Erfworld was then we might be able to speculate on whether the cross-world coincidences were constant or not. If Erfworld were created relatively recently, all of its injokes might just be from the moment of creation, not as a continuous feed.

EDIT: From rereading my message I'm realizing that I'm reading far too much into this webcomic. Trans-dimensional physics should be left alone!

_________________"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious." - Einstein

Last edited by PumpkinJack on Thu Oct 29, 2009 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Oh wait nope he won completely obliterated the Army including 28 Archons....

Yep. He did. With a hugely inferior force and greatly superior strategy. Kinda shot yourself in the foot there.

No, Charlie asked for whatever reason ... likely because he had 15 archons at the time and suspected GK to be quite weak. In any case, the calculation said 15 was not enough, and the whole of Book 1 shows that you can't just throw archons at a problem and expect it to go away.

_________________The whole point of this is lost if you keep it a secret.

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