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I always thought Luxray was pretty overrated as well as Forretress. I love them but don't find them as useful as other people/

If you're talking OU, then Luxray is not good and most everyone knows it. I personally have found Forretress to be very useful. It is incredibly useful at setting up hazards and spinning and is almost always guaranteed to do at least one of those due to its ability in Sturdy. It can sponge strong Outrages and set up in the face of whatever dragon is raging. I've also found it very useful with Volt Switch in bringing in a Pokemon as to take no damage and start sweeping through an opposing team.

If you're talking OU, then Luxray is not good and most everyone knows it. I personally have found Forretress to be very useful. It is incredibly useful at setting up hazards and spinning and is almost always guaranteed to do at least one of those due to its ability in Sturdy. It can sponge strong Outrages and set up in the face of whatever dragon is raging. I've also found it very useful with Volt Switch in bringing in a Pokemon as to take no damage and start sweeping through an opposing team.

Yeah but its meager SpDef stat lets it down somewhat....Volt Switch is pretty neat though.
And I also think Espeon is overrated. Its meant to counter hazard-setters, but it seems too frail too run a bulky set, and people can predict soo easily when it switches in, catching it with a Gyro Ball or Crunch.

PS: Did anyone here try a all-out attacker for Espeon..? I mean it has the speed (outspeeding terrakion) and definitely the offense.

Yeah but its meager SpDef stat lets it down somewhat....Volt Switch is pretty neat though.
And I also think Espeon is overrated. Its meant to counter hazard-setters, but it seems too frail too run a bulky set, and people can predict soo easily when it switches in, catching it with a Gyro Ball or Crunch.

PS: Did anyone here try a all-out attacker for Espeon..? I mean it has the speed (outspeeding terrakion) and definitely the offense.

Don't use it against special attackers :P

Espeon can run a good dual screening set, anything other than that I have found to be pretty much a let down and I could find better Pokemon to fill its spot. Alakazam performs much better as an all out attacker than Espeon.

Yeah but its meager SpDef stat lets it down somewhat....Volt Switch is pretty neat though.
And I also think Espeon is overrated. Its meant to counter hazard-setters, but it seems too frail too run a bulky set, and people can predict soo easily when it switches in, catching it with a Gyro Ball or Crunch.

PS: Did anyone here try a all-out attacker for Espeon..? I mean it has the speed (outspeeding terrakion) and definitely the offense.

The point of using Espeon is not to block entry hazards indefinitely in the same way that a Skarmory walls a Scizor indefinitely, or that a Chansey walls a special attacker indefinitely. The point of using Espeon is to temporarily block entry hazards (Focus Sash guarantees that it survives at least one turn) while weakening their users with its powerful special attacks such as Grass Knot, Hidden Power [Fighting] and Psyshock, before sacrificing Espeon itself, and then using a different Pokémon in the team to revenge-kill the opponent's entry hazard setter before they get the chance to set any hazards. As such, a team that expects to be able to keep entry hazards off the field with Espeon should naturally have immense offensive presence among its other members as well to decrease the chance of the opponent sneaking in a chance to set up entry hazards later on in the match (for example, against something slow and not particularly threatening offensively such as Chansey or Ferrothorn. Basically, a team that uses Espeon should be as offensive as possible and avoid using slow and non-threatening walls as much as possible).

As such, an Espeon whose purpose is to counter entry hazards and an "all-out attacking" Espeon (or more preferably, one with three attacks + Yawn, which is a great move with excellent utility) are not mutually exclusive, but rather go hand-in-hand with each other. Because regardless of how bulky one tries to make their Espeon, it is never going to indefinitely stop the opponent's Pokémon from setting up entry hazards all by itself anyway (meaning such an Espeon has to be offensive and work together with its teammates to prevent the opponent from setting up entry hazards), while if one were to use an offensive Espeon without having the goal of countering entry hazards (or status effects, for that matter) in mind, then they may as well use a different special attacker such as Alakazam or Latios.

I value honesty in the same way that I value the sheath of a sword, while I value deceit in the same way that I value the sword itself. Deceit is just another weapon, and a weapon is inherently neither good nor bad. Whether it is good or bad in a situation depends on the ones on whom it is used... on this battlefield of the war between good and evil, commonly referred to as "the world."

I actually find Scizor pretty over rated for the most part. Don't get me wrong, he's a deadly mon... When used by the right person. Most people I encounter just don't seem to know how to use him right (even when your in the 1700's) and this is probably largely due to the prediction it is required to use scizor's most common set; choice band. I feel like most people should run life orb/ e-belt sets but who want's to lose that bit of power for a little bit of ease in prediction? Not a lot it seems, plus the swords dance set just doesn't have half the utility of it's other sets. So overall I find scizor pretty overrated, even if I only mean by who uses it

Cloyster is overrated. Keep Stealth Rock up and it will never ever have a chance to set up Shell Smash, unless you're a noob.

Kyurem-B is NOT overrated. Noobs are using the Choice Scarf set because they think "OMG such a good revenge killer", but no. Kyurem-B is better as a bulky Bander in my opinion, though it does suffer from retarded movepool and crap typing. Don't mess with its Outrage, though.

Kyurem-B is NOT overrated. Noobs are using the Choice Scarf set because they think "OMG such a good revenge killer", but no. Kyurem-B is better as a bulky Bander in my opinion, though it does suffer from retarded movepool and crap typing. Don't mess with its Outrage, though.

Not always noobs. That speed is part of the reason Kyurem-B didn't makes ubers.

I think the problem is that choice band and a stealth rock weakness don't make a good combo. Not to mention, locking yourself into Outrage is extremely risky. Yeah, all dragons have the steel type problem, but this guy has that and has poor speed and typing, making it easy to revenge kill as well.

None of those are counters, actually. Espeon can't take Bullet Seed or Seed Bomb, and the rest of them fear Spore. Breloom is great.

Though, to be fair, they are all checks. And this metagame is ruled by offensive checks.

A lot of people just fail to see the difference.

Oh yeah and Espeon sucks. Team Preview destroys Magic Bounce, and Ferrothorn can be EVed to OHKO Espeon with Gyro Ball

Well, it could go for Dual Screens without fear of taunt, but I've found Latios to do that better. No one in their right mind would taunt that thing.

Dragonite: Multiscale is really all it has going for it. Take away that and it is out done by Hydeigon Mence etc

Haxorus: Haxorus has simalar problems that Dragonite has. Especially its speed. Haxorus also has a huge attack stat but it is slower than the other dragons in the tier making it an easy target for all of them. To get around them it has to rely on Dragon Dance (Or potentially a scarf but I have never seen that on Haxorus) and when you have that as well as all the other problems Dragon Types have to deal with it makes it one of the least valuable dragon types in the OU tier. Also it has the most shallow movepool of all the dragons in OU. I mean I guess it gets Night Slash and Poison Jab and X Scissor which most of the others do not but those moves are not that useful for it in competitive.

Lucario: Again mostly because its speed can hinder it. Also its Steel typing I have found to often be more of a problem than a good thing since it is now threatened by more things than other fighting types.

Dragonite: Multiscale is really all it has going for it. Take away that and it is out done by Hydeigon Mence etc

Dragonite also has access to reliable recovery in the form of Roost to 1) keep it's health at Multiscale level and 2) make it very difficult (if not impossible) to slowly wear it down.
Multiscale, when at full HP, pretty much guarantees it a setup turn because very few pokemon, even with Ice type attacks, can OHKO through Multiscale. Even at +1/+1, Dragonite can do serious damage to the opposing team thanks to it's very high Attack. Only Heatran walls Fire/Dragon while only Levitate Bronzong and Skarmory walls Ground/ Dragon (However Bronzong loses to Haxorus, regardless of ability, because Mold Breaker nullifies Levitate) and none of these are anything more than walls (though Heatran and Skarmory can phase it out).

Dragonite also has access to reliable recovery in the form of Roost to 1) keep it's health at Multiscale level and 2) make it very difficult (if not impossible) to slowly wear it down.
Multiscale, when at full HP, pretty much guarantees it a setup turn because very few pokemon, even with Ice type attacks, can OHKO through Multiscale. Even at +1/+1, Dragonite can do serious damage to the opposing team thanks to it's very high Attack. Only Heatran walls Fire/Dragon while only Levitate Bronzong and Skarmory walls Ground/ Dragon (However Bronzong loses to Haxorus, regardless of ability, because Mold Breaker nullifies Levitate) and none of these are anything more than walls (though Heatran and Skarmory can phase it out).

Dragonite for me is the overrated of this current generation. No thanks to Multiscale. No status or stealth rock, or Ice shard, you're dead. Scizor Fears Dragonite to a pedigree. Sadly, I carry none of those counters to my team. As a semi competitive battler myself, only my Jirachi Favors well against it.

The Gen 1 contestants are demanding payback to us. Dragonite is the Optimus prime example of them all with Alakazam as Second

I find Volcarona to be just a bit overrated. Maybe its due to the prevalence of rain team or hazards or due to the amount of team support it needs. DOn't get me wrong, it can sweep, but I do find the amount of team support needed to be a bit overwhelming.

"And the salt in my wounds isn't burning anymore than it used to. It's not that I don't feel the pain, it's just I'm not afraid of hurting anymore. "- Paramore<3

Dragonite for me is the overrated of this current generation. No thanks to Multiscale. No status or stealth rock, or Ice shard, you're dead. Scizor Fears Dragonite to a pedigree. Sadly, I carry none of those counters to my team. As a semi competitive battler myself, only my Jirachi Favors well against it.

The Gen 1 contestants are demanding payback to us. Dragonite is the Optimus prime example of them all with Alakazam as Second

I've been reading some of your posts, and I think you have the definition of overrated wrong. Overrated means that they are held in high regard, but they really shouldn't be. Basically, they're not as good as other people say they are. What you've been saying sounds like Overpowered, which means that they are too strong for the current metagame, whether they don't have enough counters or are just flat out broken. I Bolded a main quote that makes me think that you're misunderstanding. That's a sign of overpoweredness, not overratedness.

Now on to what I think is Overrated. To me, Vaporeon is extremely overrated. The only thing that make sit stand out imo, is its rest/hydration combo. But even that doesn't appeal to me because you HAVE to have rain up for it to work. As a special wall, I feel it is outclassed by Gastrodon and Jellicent. Gastrodon can completely wall Thundurus-t and Rotom-w and Jellicent can be a better mixed wall and can spin block. It also gets access to will-o-wisp so you don't have to rely on scald burns, as well as taunt. For me, Vaporeon is just can't do its job as well as other pokes.

Dragonite also has access to reliable recovery in the form of Roost to 1) keep it's health at Multiscale level and 2) make it very difficult (if not impossible) to slowly wear it down.
Multiscale, when at full HP, pretty much guarantees it a setup turn because very few pokemon, even with Ice type attacks, can OHKO through Multiscale. Even at +1/+1, Dragonite can do serious damage to the opposing team thanks to it's very high Attack. Only Heatran walls Fire/Dragon while only Levitate Bronzong and Skarmory walls Ground/ Dragon (However Bronzong loses to Haxorus, regardless of ability, because Mold Breaker nullifies Levitate) and none of these are anything more than walls (though Heatran and Skarmory can phase it out).

I get what you mean. But even with this in account I still find it to be way less threatening than other dragons in the tier. At +1 +1 Dragonite is still pretty easy to take down since even with its speed at +1 I notice there are still a good amount of Pokemon that will still outspeed it just because of its not so good base speed. And if its Multiscale is broken which honestly is just not that hard to keep off even if Dnite does have Roost (Im also starting to see Roost as uncommon on Dnite. Four-move syndrome hurts) Dnite is finished. I guess what I mean is if you are playing a experienced person good predicting is really all they need to get around Roost and if Dnite is not carrying Roost (Which is usually how it is) then well Dragonite is just really not that threatening compared to others.

Originally Posted by Sparkbeat

Now on to what I think is Overrated. To me, Vaporeon is extremely overrated. The only thing that make sit stand out imo, is its rest/hydration combo. But even that doesn't appeal to me because you HAVE to have rain up for it to work. As a special wall, I feel it is outclassed by Gastrodon and Jellicent. Gastrodon can completely wall Thundurus-t and Rotom-w and Jellicent can be a better mixed wall and can spin block. It also gets access to will-o-wisp so you don't have to rely on scald burns, as well as taunt. For me, Vaporeon is just can't do its job as well as other pokes.

I think the Rest Hydration is really its only big thing that it has to offer. I guess it has really big HP which is good for it and I admit Vaporeon IS a good Pokemon I would just rather use a different Pokemon over it in most cases

I've been reading some of your posts, and I think you have the definition of overrated wrong. Overrated means that they are held in high regard, but they really shouldn't be. Basically, they're not as good as other people say they are. What you've been saying sounds like Overpowered, which means that they are too strong for the current metagame, whether they don't have enough counters or are just flat out broken. I Bolded a main quote that makes me think that you're misunderstanding. That's a sign of overpoweredness, not overratedness.

Now on to what I think is Overrated. To me, Vaporeon is extremely overrated. The only thing that make sit stand out imo, is its rest/hydration combo. But even that doesn't appeal to me because you HAVE to have rain up for it to work. As a special wall, I feel it is outclassed by Gastrodon and Jellicent. Gastrodon can completely wall Thundurus-t and Rotom-w and Jellicent can be a better mixed wall and can spin block. It also gets access to will-o-wisp so you don't have to rely on scald burns, as well as taunt. For me, Vaporeon is just can't do its job as well as other pokes.

Interestiing for me to know. Guess I see it in a different way.

Vaporeon as overrated? That's quite a different view for me. It's ... on the grey side of OU

I get what you mean. But even with this in account I still find it to be way less threatening than other dragons in the tier. At +1 +1 Dragonite is still pretty easy to take down since even with its speed at +1 I notice there are still a good amount of Pokemon that will still outspeed it just because of its not so good base speed.

If you mean 'scarfed revengekillers', the only ones off the top of my head who can flat out KO it from high health are Scarf Terrakion (who easily loses to misprediction, in the case Drag switches to something like Bronzong or, worse, Gliscor to take the incomming Stone Edge), Ice Shard Mammoswine and (surprisingly) Choice Scarf Cinccino (who does 74-87% to a neutral-natured 4 HP/ 0 Def Dragonite with a Skill-Linked Rock Blast), all of which are dealt with by Scizor, Mach Punch Conkledurr and (to a lesser extent) Infernape with their priority punches. If you lost your scarfed revengekiller and wall to stuff like Scizor and Gothetelle, Dragonite is going to have an easy time getting in and setting up. By the way, +1 Speed on a positive-natured Base 80 speed pokemon with 252 EVs outspeeds a base 120 speed pokemon with the same EVs and nature without the boost (494 compared to 409), so not much other than scarfers can easily catch and take it down.

And if its Multiscale is broken which honestly is just not that hard to keep off even if Dnite does have Roost (Im also starting to see Roost as uncommon on Dnite. Four-move syndrome hurts) Dnite is finished.

Dragonite can easily come in on something like Ferrothorn and set up. Multiscale is only meant to grant it temporary protection, but that's usually enough to give it the necessary monentum to have it begin sweeping. Even with Stealth Rock out, DNite has an easy time setting up if it switches into something that can't do much to it anyway.

I guess what I mean is if you are playing a experienced person good predicting is really all they need to get around Roost and if Dnite is not carrying Roost (Which is usually how it is) then well Dragonite is just really not that threatening compared to others.

Slaking can perform really, really well if you are consistently spot-on with prediction. Do you see him in OU? Choiced items, while providing an automatic +1 boost in a stat, leave the user very easily beaten by being outpredicted. Why are they being used so frequently?
My point is that, most of the time, Pokemon is 70% prediction and 30% skill. You could lose to ten noobs in a row but then destroy more than ten pros in a row solely due to luck and (miss)prediction, both partly due to the player and RNG. Some playstyles (ie. Hyper Offense) aim to reduce this, but prediction will always be a dominant element in pokemon battling.

Dragonite may not be so much of a threat to you, but it is a serious threat to others who aren't so skilled in prediction.

I agree with Milotic and Dusclops, but Ambipom+technician+Fake Out is a winning combination that cannot be replicated. Plus it has a variety of other disruptive moves and it hits hard with StabReturn.

True. Ambipom is one of those niche pokemon. But why dusclops? It's near impossible to OHKO, burn can be very tiresome, and Painsplit gives it some form of recovery, and it does decent damage, taking into account its horrible Hp stat.

Actually, after gaining a lot of experience in competitive battling, I have to say that no pokemon is really Overrated.

I agree with Milotic and Dusclops, but Ambipom+technician+Fake Out is a winning combination that cannot be replicated. Plus it has a variety of other disruptive moves and it hits hard with StabReturn.

The Fake Out thing is done much, much better by Mienshao. Ambipom is too weak to hit steels and rock-types with Low Sweep/Kick, and it's OHKOed by everything. Mienshao at least has 125 physical attack, STAB Hi Jump Kick, and guess what? Decent special attack. Hidden Power Ice wipes the floor with Gligar, something Ambipom can't dream of doing(even with Ice Punch, I don't think it can even learn that though.) I also don't think STAB Return is enough to make Ambipom worth using. Choice Band Snorlax is much better at hitting hits hard than Ambipom. It also has Beat Up, but Weavile does that 1000x better, not to mention he also has Swords Dance and the ability to Pursuit targets.

The Fake Out thing is done much, much better by Mienshao. Ambipom is too weak to hit steels and rock-types with Low Sweep/Kick, and it's OHKOed by everything. Mienshao at least has 125 physical attack, STAB Hi Jump Kick, and guess what? Decent special attack. Hidden Power Ice wipes the floor with Gligar, something Ambipom can't dream of doing(even with Ice Punch, I don't think it can even learn that though.) I also don't think STAB Return is enough to make Ambipom worth using. Choice Band Snorlax is much better at hitting hits hard than Ambipom. It also has Beat Up, but Weavile does that 1000x better, not to mention he also has Swords Dance and the ability to Pursuit targets.

Ambipom sucks, pure and simple.

^this.

Originally Posted by T-Bolt

Actually, after gaining a lot of experience in competitive battling, I have to say that no pokemon is really Overrated.

That's right, especially in OU where almost anything are decent enough to get their jobs done. Some n00ns pokes such as pikachu, eelektross, charizard, or other pokes that often can be found in the merciless upper tiers are probably the obvious example of the most overrated pokemon in the poke universe.

Eelektross is not completely useless. Unlike Electivire, it actually HAS DECENT BULK, no weaknesses, and a good Special Attack stat. It also has Superpower and Grass Knot. FailVire is the one that can't do crap.

The Fake Out thing is done much, much better by Mienshao. Ambipom is too weak to hit steels and rock-types with Low Sweep/Kick, and it's OHKOed by everything. Mienshao at least has 125 physical attack, STAB Hi Jump Kick, and guess what? Decent special attack. Hidden Power Ice wipes the floor with Gligar, something Ambipom can't dream of doing(even with Ice Punch, I don't think it can even learn that though.) I also don't think STAB Return is enough to make Ambipom worth using. Choice Band Snorlax is much better at hitting hits hard than Ambipom. It also has Beat Up, but Weavile does that 1000x better, not to mention he also has Swords Dance and the ability to Pursuit targets.

Ambipom sucks, pure and simple.

You don't really get how Ambipom works, do you? How does Mienshao use Fake out better when Ambipom has a Technician+STAB fake out, the strongest fake out among all pokemon? It's speed stat is 10 points above Mienshao's, allowing it to usually use U-turn before the opponent. Continuous Fake Outs and U-Turns wear the opponent's team down, while at the same time giving crucial momentum to the other pokemon on your Volt-turn team, and no other pokemon can replicate the way Ambipom does it.

Some n00ns pokes such as pikachu, eelektross, charizard, or other pokes that often can be found in the merciless upper tiers are probably the obvious example of the most overrated pokemon in the poke universe.

Um, Charizard and Pikachu are in NU, the lowest tier. We're talking about pokemon that are in a higher tier than they should be (that's what I thought anyway)

Hey :3 I use Mienshao over Ambipom. Mostly because Mienshao has Regenerator giving it some decent recovery upon U-Turning and because the STAB high jump kick does nice damage to most things. Just mah 2 cents

Originally Posted by Mew.

I guess you are a special one and do not fit under the "most people" category

Um, Charizard and Pikachu are in NU, the lowest tier. We're talking about pokemon that are in a higher tier than they should be (that's what I thought anyway)

Indeed they're NU, but my point is since these pokes' performance are highly overrated, sometimes in a rare occasion we can find them in upper tiers like OU or above. Scarf Solar Power Charizard in a sun team for example, on paper it may look devastating & poweful, but in reality it's sucks balls.

Anyway, Metagross will probably fall into both underrated & overrated category, depends on its moveset.