I think that (largely due to injury) this is a big part of how V&M have failed to keep up- they have been unable to improve the things about their skating that were already excellent, whereas D&W have been improving everything, bit by bit, to come to where they are not.

Originally Posted by katha

I'm sure a lot of that has to do with V/M constantly having to manage Tessa's injury, training has to be paced accordingly etc.

You are not sure? V/M don't train hard coz of Tessa's legs. However, Charlie's asthma doesn't affect their training, and they train even harder. As a result, V/M don't deserve to win. What a bunch of made-up crap.

Actually I tend to think of D/W and V/M as the contemporary equivalents of Gene Kelly and Fred Astaire. Great performers, different styles. But one style is not inherently "better" than the other. I just think we're damn lucky to be living in the era where they are competing.

This is definitely my feeling too! It's like having an emerald and a sapphire on the same necklace. Who'd want just one?

By the way, Tulosai, thanks for the link to the article about Meryl. I missed that too.

You are not sure? V/M don't train hard coz of Tessa's legs. However, Charlie's asthma doesn't affect their training, and they train even harder. As a result, V/M don't deserve to win. What a bunch of made-up crap.

You don't know these people personally any more than I do. You have no idea how hard they train or what does or doesn't affect their training. I was merely stating my opinion, which is just as valid as yours. You have been around a long time but clearly haven't read many of my posts- I am a huge fan of both D/W and V/M and while I currently prefer D/W I have followed V/M AVIDLY since their junior years, and they remain one of 5 skaters/pairs that I have been a huge fan of immediately, with no persuasion needed. I don't think an injury is an 'excuse' in sports or that we should pretend V/M are improving because she is injured. They aren't improving anything but their presence on the ice, IMO- something they were already great at. Whatever the reason, V/M have stagnated, at least somewhat. D/W have not. I never said anything about who deserves to win, who is better overall, etc. I merely said V/M haven't improved much lately, and I stand by it. Maybe that's due to her injuries, in whole or in part. I don't think it matters. The best team on a given day deserves to win.

You don't know these people personally any more than I do. You have no idea how hard they train or what does or doesn't affect their training. I was merely stating my opinion, which is just as valid as yours. You have been around a long time but clearly haven't read many of my posts- I am a huge fan of both D/W and V/M and while I currently prefer D/W I have followed V/M AVIDLY since their junior years, and they remain one of 5 skaters/pairs that I have been a huge fan of immediately, with no persuasion needed. I don't think an injury is an 'excuse' in sports or that we should pretend V/M are improving because she is injured. They aren't improving anything but their presence on the ice, IMO- something they were already great at. Whatever the reason, V/M have stagnated, at least somewhat. D/W have not. I never said anything about who deserves to win, who is better overall, etc. I merely said V/M haven't improved much lately, and I stand by it. Maybe that's due to her injuries, in whole or in part. I don't think it matters. The best team on a given day deserves to win.

Like you said, You don't know these people personally. So stop spreading rumors and stating your personal opinion as facts.

Thank you so much! I remember reading somewhere about Meryl's dyslexia, but didn't remember the part about depth perception. That was a really well-written article. A lot of folks know Christine Brennean when one thinks of the USA Today camp, but I think Kelly Whiteside is wonderful as well.

Originally Posted by Olympia

This is definitely my feeling too! It's like having an emerald and a sapphire on the same necklace. Who'd want just one?

I agree Olympia. I think it's great there are two very different styles thriving in ice dance. There's a lot of talk about how Gracie Gold needs to be true to herself and her strengths and I'm hoping that in the time she was training in Canton she got some insight from D/W on how to do that.

Like you said, You don't know these people personally. So stop spreading rumors and stating your personal opinion as facts.

While I can sympathize with your protectiveness of your favorites (I would also react poorly if I thought someone was unfairly implying something unsavory about my preferred skaters), I don't think think anyone on this thread mentioned Tessa's injury in any pejorative sense... Injuries are an unfortunate part of sport and while they shouldn't be a target of criticism or hate it would be naive to dismiss them as having no effect on the athletes. I personally find it rather inspiring that our current top dance teams have worked so hard -- in their own appropriate ways -- to overcome their obstacles so brilliantly (Tessa's injury, Charlie's asthma, Meryl's depth perception issues).

As to the original topic of the thread, I rather enjoyed what I saw of their FD. Granted, it was not a perfect performance and I do think the choreography itself could do with some tweaking but I think it has a lot of potential and would love to see what improvements they'll add to the program over the course of the season. But to be honest, I think with D/W & V/M, the question of winning/losing will depend more on the performances the day of competition. Although the teams have different unique strengths, it's not like they're complete slouches in their respective 'weaker' areas...

Yeah, when we talk about one of these two couples being stronger or less strong than the other in some element, we're talking about grade A vs. grade A+, not about A vs. C or D.

Another point: Tessa, Charlie, and Meryl are all dealing with innate physical challenges that are not based on injury. Tessa's compartment syndrome is obviously the result of some physiological anomaly of hers, because other ice dancers train just as much but don't get this problem. Meryl's vision problem and Charlie's asthma (and Yuzuru Hanyu's) are also in this category. So what we're seeing here are athletes who don't start out with the most perfect, ideal physical equipment, and yet they don't accept the limitations of their respective conditions. They just keep going and getting better and better. That's incredibly inspiring.

Yeah, when we talk about one of these two couples being stronger or less strong than the other in some element, we're talking about grade A vs. grade A+, not about A vs. C or D.

Another point: Tessa, Charlie, and Meryl are all dealing with innate physical challenges that are not based on injury. Tessa's compartment syndrome is obviously the result of some physiological anomaly of hers, because other ice dancers train just as much but don't get this problem. Meryl's vision problem and Charlie's asthma (and Yuzuru Hanyu's) are also in this category. So what we're seeing here are athletes who don't start out with the most perfect, ideal physical equipment, and yet they don't accept the limitations of their respective conditions. They just keep going and getting better and better. That's incredibly inspiring.

What makes their accomplishments even more remarkable: Davis is dyslexic and lacks depth perception.

"When she was younger she would pretty much hug the boards because she had no depth perception," her mother, Cheryl, said. She also has trouble seeing with her right eye.

When Davis skates during warm-ups, she tends to stay close to the boards, away from the couples also warming up. "It's pretty scary to not know how far away the other skaters are from you," Cheryl said. "She depends on Charlie a lot for that. He protects her. She's been with her for so many years he knows what she needs."

We also noticed at the Salt Lake Classic that when Meryl and Charlie are just skating around - warm-ups and practice - Meryl is always on the outside of the circle. I'm guessing now it's because it puts Meryl closest to the boards where she can get her bearings better.

When competing, Davis memorizes where the painted lines are on the ice so she can get her bearings. But there's been times when she's had to compete on ice without such markings.

Cheryl would like her daughter to share her story, but Meryl has resisted. She doesn't want to talk about her vision problems or have judges and fans think it's a factor when she's on the ice.

But those closest to her marvel at the obstacles overcome and view her as a role model for others with the similar dyslexia-related issues. "She's just learned to accommodate her whole life with it," her mother said. "It's surprising that she has done as well as she has."

Davis, a student at the University of Michigan, said she became a stronger person because of it. She tells kids facing similar challenges that self-belief and determination will help them reach their goals as well.

AHA. I have been saying to my friends for years that there was some problem with Meryl's eyes. When I sit close enough in practice, I have noticed that she is constantly blinking and touching her eyes and make-up. I thought maybe she had problems with her contac lenses or the lights or something. I am glad to see this in print. Yay for Meryl and her perserverence

You are not sure? V/M don't train hard coz of Tessa's legs. However, Charlie's asthma doesn't affect their training, and they train even harder. As a result, V/M don't deserve to win. What a bunch of made-up crap.

this is disgusting. Asthma and the injury to Tessa are different. Both teams work harder. Davis and White probably get more exposure and in a way support because not only are they great skaters and personality they represent a country that is about ten times larger than Canada.

Charlie`s asthma is not nearly as debilitating as what some of us have but regardless both teams work very hard; they have too and they have to practise smart too especially Tessa. In fact, i was going to say it is amazing V and M can stay remotely competitive considering the injuries.

Like you said, You don't know these people personally. So stop spreading rumors and stating your personal opinion as facts.

I detest us all playing favourites between these two great teams D and W and V and M - we look like (many) should be watched for some horrific crime they way we write.

IMHO Davis and White will win. I agree V and M have not improved as much for whatever reason; I would say though D and W have stagnated or limited musical range however that does not reduce their scores - that is the name of the game. It is about playing smart - fair or not (it is fair depending on who you want to win lol). I would love to see V and M give D and W a run for their money but I do think D and W will win short of a some error.

this is disgusting. Asthma and the injury to Tessa are different. Both teams work harder. Davis and White probably get more exposure and in a way support because not only are they great skaters and personality they represent a country that is about ten times larger than Canada.

I'm not sure there's that much difference in the exposure and support unless one is in the U.S. and is a skating fan. Despite their achievements, Meryl and Charlie aren't household words in the U.S. because skating isn't that popular here, and most American skating fame goes to ladies' singles skaters anyway. I suspect that Canadians in general are more supportive of their figure skaters, and besides, V/M won an OGM in a "hometown" Olympic Games. There was even a coffee-table book about Tessa and Scott, full of photos and biographical info. I've never seen so much as a magazine cover featuring Meryl and Charlie, let alone a book.

Be that as it may, in the skating world, these two splendid couples are almost equally praised and admired, and almost equally gifted and accomplished, though different in some aspects, and it sometimes seems as if one could toss a coin to decide which one should win in a particular competition. This alone will make the season even more tense! Nothing is really a shoe-in at this stage, it seems.