Yes, the boom is real. And yes, the boom-industry is real too. Once the upfront-drilling and construction of infrastructure is in place, jobs will taper off. We are hearing about it as a solution for unemployment, but these are often skilled labor jobs so they're not going to hire just any average Joe. Employers probably use headhunter firms and contract with various smaller firms and relocate them to the area.

I'm by no means an expert, just some dude on the net. I would argue that these things are happening, but the effect is only seen at the margins. (As with all economics)

"The average person figures that the president tells the truth, the vice president tells the truth, the secretary of state tell the truth; and they don't. They don't. The founders understood that people would be flawed, that political leaders would not be the best of men … so they set forth the constitution. We don't follow the constitution in this country; had we done so in 2001 and 2002, the world would be a different place" - Karen Kwiatkowski

Well, my question actually is this : does such a boom bring in more jobs than the oil jobs themselves?

Yes.

Originally Posted by Tpoints

Construction for new houses, food and catering, education, entertainment, transportation, IT infrastructure, city planning...etc.

Yes. Regarding entertainment, there are a lot of stripper jobs up there. Or so I hear.

Originally Posted by Tpoints

Why aren't we hearing about this more as a solution to unemployment? Is it because it's not there or not big enough?

A solution to unemployment? How? There isn't oil everywhere and there's only a finite number of jobs created. It's not like Obama can sign an executive order and massive oil reserves will suddenly appear in Nevada where unemployment is highest.

Originally Posted by Tpoints

Surely, if it was so promising, the employers would advertise in highly unemployed areas to recruit people, right?

I'm sure they have.

Originally Posted by Tpoints

Can ND be another Free State project target?

Definitely. It's a small state, relatively republican/conservative, good economy, relatively rural, low taxes. Ron Paul did quite well there during their caucuses (but got screwed over at the convention). The fact that it's small could make it a very easy target.

Yes, the boom is real. And yes, the boom-industry is real too. Once the upfront-drilling and construction of infrastructure is in place, jobs will taper off. We are hearing about it as a solution for unemployment, but these are often skilled labor jobs so they're not going to hire just any average Joe. Employers probably use headhunter firms and contract with various smaller firms and relocate them to the area.

I'm by no means an expert, just some dude on the net. I would argue that these things are happening, but the effect is only seen at the margins. (As with all economics)

I can see that the oil jobs themselves require skill, connection and experience. But not so much for the "auxillary" ones, laundry, house cleaning, babysitting, car repair, restaurants...etc. I do want to know more details if anybody has some.

Yes. Regarding entertainment, there are a lot of stripper jobs up there. Or so I hear.

A solution to unemployment? How? There isn't oil everywhere and there's only a finite number of jobs created. It's not like Obama can sign an executive order and massive oil reserves will suddenly appear in Nevada where unemployment is highest.

I'm sure they have.

Definitely. It's a small state, relatively republican/conservative, good economy, relatively rural, low taxes. Ron Paul did quite well there during their caucuses (but got screwed over at the convention). The fact that it's small could make it a very easy target.

thanks! do you know what "stage" they are at? As in, how much longer it'll last before it's either saturated with workers or oil is all sucked up?

Yes, there's always a finite number of jobs created, and that's my question, how many oil jobs can we expect to create?

Can we expect that for every 1 oil job created, there's 2 "non oil jobs" created to support the person's lifestyle?

We are hearing about it as a solution for unemployment, but these are often skilled labor jobs so they're not going to hire just any average Joe. Employers probably use headhunter firms and contract with various smaller firms and relocate them to the area.

I know guys that have possibly the lowest IQ out of people I know, and they have these types of jobs. You really do not need to be skilled as they provide on the job training in most places and most times have people that supervise and tell you what to do etc. There isn't that much skill involved in moving a part over, laying it on a pipe and then having the machine pick it up and you guide it down onto the other pipe. It's fairly simple really.

Right, it won't last so all of the infrastructure needed for the added workers is not being built. Because of that, it is harder to get a motel room, eat at a restaurant, stay at a campground and so on in much of ND than it used to be. The boom is likely good for ND and good for the US, but it isn't good for famlies looking to vote with their feet. It is great for single men without kids looking for jobs and willing to live is in a tight, uncomfortable living situation, though.

Extraction taxes from oil from the Bakken and Sanish/Three Forks formations is a major source of revenue for the state, but that doesn't mean it's all being spent into the economy. In fact, most of that state revenue is going toward building enormous surpluses, most of which are not allocated for any use at all.

Despite the fact that many who were drawn to the oil fields for employment are "making it there to spend it elsewhere", there's no question that the oil boom in ND has had a ripple effect in the overall economy. What most people don't realize, however, is that much of the oil field is isolated from major population centers, and with a shortage of housing, there is a "share cropper" aspect to the oil patch, as rent-seeking developers in the Bakkans have cropped up, like Capital Lodgers [LINK], to capture a sizable portion of the personal income generated by the boom.

There is another aspect to this that most people aren't aware of, and that is that the industry is now in a drilling phase. Those are the salad days for the oil patch. That lasts for about a generation, and will eventually come to an end.

The increase in jobs and the demands upon the local area will continue throughout the drilling phase of the industry’s development, which will last for the next 15‐20 years. However, when the industry transitions from the drilling to the production phase, demand for labor in the industry will fall by 90%.

thanks! do you know what "stage" they are at? As in, how much longer it'll last before it's either saturated with workers or oil is all sucked up?

Yes, there's always a finite number of jobs created, and that's my question, how many oil jobs can we expect to create?

Can we expect that for every 1 oil job created, there's 2 "non oil jobs" created to support the person's lifestyle?

Tpoints, as you can see from the story posted by Keith and stuff, the center of the boom is in the town of Williston. My wife and I are team truck drivers, and we go through North Dakota quite a bit. I've not had any experience directly with Williston, but even the nearby towns like Minot have been feeling the effects from this.

A couple of years ago, before the boom, a truck wash in Minot was around eighty bucks. Last time I checked, the price had more than doubled. Last time I was in the Wal-Mart in Minot, they had a display in front of the store offering a four dollar per hour bonus - bonus, mind - for anyone willing to hire on and stock shelves overnights. The restaurants were having a hard time hiring staff even at ten and twelve bucks an hour.

If you have trade skills - welding, machine tools, electrician, pipefitting, heavy equipment operations, etc you can still find some real high-paying jobs. But if you're planning on going there to look for work, be prepared to pay dearly for every amenity, and twice over for housing. Don't take the family. Be prepared for "bunkhouse living" with a bunch of other guys.... and don't plan on camping out like those poor bastards in that news story. The average low in Williston is well below zero in January:

Extraction taxes from oil from the Bakken and Sanish/Three Forks formations is a major source of revenue for the state, but that doesn't mean it's all being spent into the economy. In fact, most of that state revenue is going toward building enormous surpluses, most of which are not allocated for any use at all.

Despite the fact that many who were drawn to the oil fields for employment are "making it there to spend it elsewhere", there's no question that the oil boom in ND has had a ripple effect in the overall economy. What most people don't realize, however, is that much of the oil field is isolated from major population centers, and with a shortage of housing, there is a "share cropper" aspect to the oil patch, as rent-seeking developers in the Bakkans have cropped up, like Capital Lodgers [LINK], to capture a sizable portion of the personal income generated by the boom.

There is another aspect to this that most people aren't aware of, and that is that the industry is now in a drilling phase. Those are the salad days for the oil patch. That lasts for about a generation, and will eventually come to an end.

The future will be moving slightly south to the Niobrara shelf in Colorado from what I've seen.

Theye have refused their Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

Theye have erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

Theye kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies

Theye have combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution,

For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

For cutting off our Trade with parts of the world:

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

Theye plundered and destroyed the lives of our people.

Theye are at this time transporting Armies of Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy of a civilized nation.

Theye have refused their Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

Theye have erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

Theye kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies

Theye have combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution,

For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

For cutting off our Trade with parts of the world:

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

Theye plundered and destroyed the lives of our people.

Theye are at this time transporting Armies of Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy of a civilized nation.

If we're going to do multiple projects we should really keep it confined to Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina, and Nevada for obvious reasons

New Hampshire is the only feasible one of those. Iowa is a blue state, SC and Nevada are not liberty states. If there's going to be a second FSP then it should be a relatively small (population-wise especially), red state like Montana.

Well, my question actually is this : does such a boom bring in more jobs than the oil jobs themselves?

It's creating jobs in every industry because people who might otherwise work one job go to the oil industry for the money. Even McDonald's workers are getting $15/hr+ because labor is so scarce.

Why aren't we hearing about this more as a solution to unemployment? Is it because it's not there or not big enough?

We are. Fracking and mining have been perennial headlines on any business/finance publication. You're just not hearing about it in RPF all that much. There are people flocking to Australia for mining right now, too, many of them making $150K or more per year with nothing more than a high school education. There are plenty of great, high-paying, and sustainable jobs out there if you look past the macro doom and gloom story.

Surely, if it was so promising, the employers would advertise in highly unemployed areas to recruit people, right?

It's best for single dudes who can deal with crappy weather, long hours, but want to enjoy obscenely high pay. The persistent news coverage is doing a pretty good job of recruiting new employees from all over the place.

New Hampshire is the only feasible one of those. Iowa is a blue state, SC and Nevada are not liberty states. If there's going to be a second FSP then it should be a relatively small (population-wise especially), red state like Montana.

I agree. New Hampshire is the ultimate all around choice, and I would do anything to see it FSP efforts succeed.

Well, my question actually is this : does such a boom bring in more jobs than the oil jobs themselves?

It's creating jobs in every industry because people who might otherwise work one job go to the oil industry for the money. Even McDonald's workers are getting $15/hr+ because labor is so scarce.

Why aren't we hearing about this more as a solution to unemployment? Is it because it's not there or not big enough?

We are. Fracking and mining have been perennial headlines on any business/finance publication. You're just not hearing about it in RPF all that much. There are people flocking to Australia for mining right now, too, many of them making $150K or more per year with nothing more than a high school education. There are plenty of great, high-paying, and sustainable jobs out there if you look past the macro doom and gloom story.

Surely, if it was so promising, the employers would advertise in highly unemployed areas to recruit people, right?

It's best for single dudes who can deal with crappy weather, long hours, but want to enjoy obscenely high pay. The persistent news coverage is doing a pretty good job of recruiting new employees from all over the place.

Yes to the above. I do want to mention that the largest problem is infrastructure. Housing is a major consideration. KBR is only capable of providing so many "man camps" at the price they charge those working in the oil industry. A McD worker isn't gonna fair as well. However, depending on the company a low wage earner works for, like WalMarx, they will bring them in over the Christmas holidays paying them twice their wages and dorming them in hotel blocks.

Theye have refused their Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

Theye have erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

Theye kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies

Theye have combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution,

For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

For cutting off our Trade with parts of the world:

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

Theye plundered and destroyed the lives of our people.

Theye are at this time transporting Armies of Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy of a civilized nation.

I served over three years in the USAF stationed in the most northern part of ND. It is COLD! There is a lot of oil though. I remember driving 80 miles to a friends house (no joke... you have to drive really far to get to the next town) and smelling the oil wells. There were so many wells.

I honestly feel like this is right up my ally but I worry that I don't have what it takes...

I've never worked in any kind of construction or engineering and only worked physical labor when I landscaped which I imagine is a $#@!ing cake walk compared to this.

I would really like to do this, make bank for a while by penny pinching to the extreme, and then move on to something else. I'm young, single, have nothing on the horizon and would really like to save up to move to New Hampshire comfortably.

I would really like to do this, make bank for a while by penny pinching to the extreme, and then move on to something else. I'm young, single, have nothing on the horizon and would really like to save up to move to New Hampshire comfortably.

I would really like to do this, make bank for a while by penny pinching to the extreme, and then move on to something else. I'm young, single, have nothing on the horizon and would really like to save up to move to New Hampshire comfortably.

Don't forget Asia as an option. No physical labor involved there. Teach English for two or three years, don't party, penny-pinch in a place where medical and dental costs next to nothing, and move to New Hampshire from there once you have a nest egg.

Or do the adventure then move to NH and only work 1 full time job or 2 part time jobs.

1) Because I live in Chicago I have no car- public transit gets you everywhere here.
2) To get to NH I kind of need one but really have no idea how I could incur the extra expense in the vehicle or insurance
3) My goal is to go out to NH and devote most of my time to advancing the cause. It's really difficult to do that with a job let alone 2. I'd like to go out with a little bit of a nest egg. At my current rate I should be able to get out there by March and live comfortably for a little while after while I look for employment. I could probably go out now with the money i've got but I really want to be prepared financially and not go off half cocked.

The oil boom is very real in the western part of the state. It can be a dangerous occupation though. I know several guys that moved out west to be foreman or truck drivers and they make damn good money.

New Hampshire is the only feasible one of those. Iowa is a blue state, SC and Nevada are not liberty states. If there's going to be a second FSP then it should be a relatively small (population-wise especially), red state like Montana.

Given that the dichotomy between Democrats and Republicans is a big-ass facade with few exceptions, why is it that I've reading too much here lately about red-state this or blue-state that? Do you expect big differences among the followers where few exist among the leaders? That's not to say I want to stink it up with the 47% or clink champaign glasses with the 1%, rather my evaluation of a state is not going to be "red or blue".

Tpoints, as you can see from the story posted by Keith and stuff, the center of the boom is in the town of Williston. My wife and I are team truck drivers, and we go through North Dakota quite a bit. I've not had any experience directly with Williston, but even the nearby towns like Minot have been feeling the effects from this.

A couple of years ago, before the boom, a truck wash in Minot was around eighty bucks. Last time I checked, the price had more than doubled. Last time I was in the Wal-Mart in Minot, they had a display in front of the store offering a four dollar per hour bonus - bonus, mind - for anyone willing to hire on and stock shelves overnights. The restaurants were having a hard time hiring staff even at ten and twelve bucks an hour.

If you have trade skills - welding, machine tools, electrician, pipefitting, heavy equipment operations, etc you can still find some real high-paying jobs. But if you're planning on going there to look for work, be prepared to pay dearly for every amenity, and twice over for housing. Don't take the family. Be prepared for "bunkhouse living" with a bunch of other guys.... and don't plan on camping out like those poor bastards in that news story. The average low in Williston is well below zero in January:

That's just a bit too cold to be living in a tent, IMHO.

thanks! That's basically what i wanted to know

Sounds like you're saying, many to most can get 10-12 per hour jobs doing low skill work, but would have to to keep up with high cost of living due to demand.

Hire on in any of the trades locally for the winter, get some experience in anything then head out there in the spring...

Originally Posted by NoOneButPaul

I honestly feel like this is right up my ally but I worry that I don't have what it takes...

I've never worked in any kind of construction or engineering and only worked physical labor when I landscaped which I imagine is a $#@!ing cake walk compared to this.

I would really like to do this, make bank for a while by penny pinching to the extreme, and then move on to something else. I'm young, single, have nothing on the horizon and would really like to save up to move to New Hampshire comfortably.