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Re: Indiana Basketball 2011-2012 Part II

Maybe I'm just accepting because I have so many flaws of my own, but I'm guessing I've revealed far more and more revealing character flaws in the last 13 months than the two you mentioned.

At least I'm not proud, so no fall for me.

What do your personal struggles have to do with Crean doing his job? The "we're all human" defense?

So when you evaluate the job your coach is doing you only care about wins and losses because that's what he's paid to do, so if someone else thinks that tune will change if the performance changes, they are judgmental? Interesting way to view the world.

Re: Indiana Basketball 2011-2012 Part II

That doesn't make what I stated in my original post any less true. It's happening all over Indiana.

You certainly don't believe that this board is an accurate representation of an entire fan base, do you?

Is that your expectation for someone to form an opinion about what they are hearing out of a fan base, that you have to do a longitudinal study of all Hoosier related sites, check the Hoosier friendly newspapers, read several Hoosier blogs, just to make a statement about what I'm reading from Hoosier fans on this board? Frankly, I'm glad I don't meet those qualifications.

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Is that your expectation for someone to form an opinion about what they are hearing out of a fan base, that you have to do a longitudinal study of all Hoosier related sites, check the Hoosier friendly newspapers, read several Hoosier blogs, just to make a statement about what I'm reading from Hoosier fans on this board? Frankly, I'm glad I don't meet those qualifications.

Are we really saying what you claim we're saying? Who here has given Crean a blanket pass? Several of us admit that while we like Crean we'd take Stevens if given the choice.

What exactly is Tom's major sin we should be condemning? He's a little kooky and excitable? I agree he acts similar to his bro in laws, but I don't see anything really wrong with their behavior either. It's not the norm for coaches, that is for sure but I don't have a problem with it and I'm certainly no fan of either of the teams the Harbaughs coach.

I honestly don't see what the big deal is. This seems a lot like last year when you tried to claim that IU fans on this board ha such high expectations of last years team that we were going to be crushed when they didn't make the Final Four or win a championship. And that wasn't true of us either.

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Re: Indiana Basketball 2011-2012 Part II

Originally Posted by traderumor

What do your personal struggles have to do with Crean doing his job? The "we're all human" defense?

So when you evaluate the job your coach is doing you only care about wins and losses because that's what he's paid to do, so if someone else thinks that tune will change if the performance changes, they are judgmental? Interesting way to view the world.

I think you miss the point.
You said Crean represents the University poorly. When asked how he represents the university poorly, you mentioned two specific incidents which you said, showed his true character. Obviously for any specific time he's acted improperly, I could point out a number of different times he's acted in a manner which I believe shows his character in a positive light. So rather than make it a tit for tat positive example for negative example which would prove nothing, I was pointing out that no person's character should be reduced to two specific incidents over 1 year apart.

Most of the things you've mentioned are a part of his personality, which while I can see why it's annoying, don't really reflect badly on the university.

I can imagine sitting in an interview, and the interviewer says, "We'd like to offer you the job, but we can't value a degree from a university that can't keep its coach in his coaching box."

He's definitely exciteable, and he definitely claps too damn much.

But really when I'm looking for a coach, the number of claps per game is not a metric I'm going to value very highly.

In general, I think you've projected a lot of feelings of IU fans which aren't accurate. Many of us are quite critical of Crean, and we're perfectly happy to discuss which ticks annoy us the most. But it just seems silly to say the guy's a bad guy or should be run out of town because he shakes hands too fast after a loss.

When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
---Joe Posnanski

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Re: Indiana Basketball 2011-2012 Part II

Originally Posted by Hoosier Red

I think you miss the point.
You said Crean represents the University poorly. When asked how he represents the university poorly, you mentioned two specific incidents which you said, showed his true character. Obviously for any specific time he's acted improperly, I could point out a number of different times he's acted in a manner which I believe shows his character in a positive light. So rather than make it a tit for tat positive example for negative example which would prove nothing, I was pointing out that no person's character should be reduced to two specific incidents over 1 year apart.

Most of the things you've mentioned are a part of his personality, which while I can see why it's annoying, don't really reflect badly on the university.

I can imagine sitting in an interview, and the interviewer says, "We'd like to offer you the job, but we can't value a degree from a university that can't keep its coach in his coaching box."

He's definitely exciteable, and he definitely claps too damn much.

But really when I'm looking for a coach, the number of claps per game is not a metric I'm going to value very highly.

In general, I think you've projected a lot of feelings of IU fans which aren't accurate. Many of us are quite critical of Crean, and we're perfectly happy to discuss which ticks annoy us the most. But it just seems silly to say the guy's a bad guy or should be run out of town because he shakes hands too fast after a loss.

First off, the incident after the UM game was very, very bad, shrug your shoulders if you like, but that was grave dancing and it is never appropriate and should have received a reprimand for doing so publicly. His team had just won a championship, and he goes after an assistant coach to essentially say, "suck it buddy" when he should have been celebrating with his players that he just loves so much. But what is he doing? Self-promoting by taking digs at others.

He also has made accusations of Matta and his assistant's recruiting practices, as well as other programs. I wasn't even referring to his sore loser handshake. Maybe that's no big deal to you and "only two incidents," but it makes me wonder what the magic number for incidents is in Hoosier land. Is it one for each conference team?

Couple that with the grandstanding, and you have a loose cannon that happens to not be quite so politically incorrect as another former Indiana coach, but no less offensive and dangerous. Honestly, if you like that he has brought a championship and that's good enough for you, that is telling as well.

You attempt to minimize my comments as "complaining about personality quirks," even though I've honed in on specific confrontations that are burning bridges around the league. That is why I say stay tuned, not because of all the minor stuff you keep on trying to claim my comments are focused on.

If I were only talking about annoying stuff, like his hairdo and his sideline antics, you'd be right on. But, is that what I have been talking about? Not me. You are projecting what others have said onto me.

Re: Indiana 2011-2012 and 2012-2013 Basketball

Are we really saying what you claim we're saying? Who here has given Crean a blanket pass? Several of us admit that while we like Crean we'd take Stevens if given the choice.

What exactly is Tom's major sin we should be condemning? He's a little kooky and excitable? I agree he acts similar to his bro in laws, but I don't see anything really wrong with their behavior either. It's not the norm for coaches, that is for sure but I don't have a problem with it and I'm certainly no fan of either of the teams the Harbaughs coach.

I honestly don't see what the big deal is. This seems a lot like last year when you tried to claim that IU fans on this board ha such high expectations of last years team that we were going to be crushed when they didn't make the Final Four or win a championship. And that wasn't true of us either.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well, your team is a number one seed this year, so I guess we have to wait and see how things go when the sun isn't shining over IU bball, won't we?

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Re: Indiana Basketball 2011-2012 Part II

Originally Posted by traderumor

First off, the incident after the UM game was very, very bad, shrug your shoulders if you like, but that was grave dancing and it is never appropriate and should have received a reprimand for doing so publicly. His team had just won a championship, and he goes after an assistant coach to essentially say, "suck it buddy" when he should have been celebrating with his players that he just loves so much. But what is he doing? Self-promoting by taking digs at others.

He also has made accusations of Matta and his assistant's recruiting practices, as well as other programs. I wasn't even referring to his sore loser handshake. Maybe that's no big deal to you and "only two incidents," but it makes me wonder what the magic number for incidents is in Hoosier land. Is it one for each conference team?

Couple that with the grandstanding, and you have a loose cannon that happens to not be quite so politically incorrect as another former Indiana coach, but no less offensive and dangerous. Honestly, if you like that he has brought a championship and that's good enough for you, that is telling as well.

You're right, the personality quirks were brought up by Bucksfan who's never seen the coach of a big time program run up and down the sidelines like Crean does.

I'm not trying to minimize anything. The stuff after the Michigan game was a bad moment, no doubt. But when he privately and publicly apologizes, it seems a bit silly to continue rail on it.

Anyways the specific incidents you are bringing up are all basically personal disagreements between Crean and the other coaches that should not be handled in public, but were and the most recent episode he apologized for. The "allegations about Matta and his assistants" was nothing more than speculation about a semi-cryptic tweet from two years ago. *If you have more details about the story than I do, please share.*

Now, do I like the coach getting in these petty arguments? No, of course not. But does that make him offensive and dangerous? No.

But to be perfectly clear, I'm not defending Crean because he's winning in this situation. I am defending him from the accusation of being offensive and dangerous because each issue is basically a personal disagreement with some specific coaches and I don't know enough about the details to say that he's in the wrong.

Maybe I just don't know enough so feel free to educate me.

When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
---Joe Posnanski

Re: Indiana 2011-2012 and 2012-2013 Basketball

Nah, I'm not the psychotic fan riding the pendulum that you apparently think that I am. I don't think the other posters on this board are either. We're gonna be just fine.

Great, my comments were never directed at any one poster in particular, but were an overall observation based on what I had been reading throughout the last two seasons. And you gave me a chuckle with the outtake.

Re: Indiana Basketball 2011-2012 Part II

You're right, the personality quirks were brought up by Bucksfan who's never seen the coach of a big time program run up and down the sidelines like Crean does.

I'm not trying to minimize anything. The stuff after the Michigan game was a bad moment, no doubt. But when he privately and publicly apologizes, it seems a bit silly to continue rail on it.

Anyways the specific incidents you are bringing up are all basically personal disagreements between Crean and the other coaches that should not be handled in public, but were and the most recent episode he apologized for. The "allegations about Matta and his assistants" was nothing more than speculation about a semi-cryptic tweet from two years ago. *If you have more details about the story than I do, please share.*

Now, do I like the coach getting in these petty arguments? No, of course not. But does that make him offensive and dangerous? No.

But to be perfectly clear, I'm not defending Crean because he's winning in this situation. I am defending him from the accusation of being offensive and dangerous because each issue is basically a personal disagreement with some specific coaches and I don't know enough about the details to say that he's in the wrong.

Maybe I just don't know enough so feel free to educate me.

I'm just making a prediction based on years of watching behavioral patterns, and he seems to be a firecracker--shooting up real fast, bursts into lots of pretty colors, implodes shortly thereafter and is next found coaching Middle Tennessee State.

Re: Indiana Basketball 2011-2012 Part II

Originally Posted by traderumor

I'm just making a prediction based on years of watching behavioral patterns, and he seems to be a firecracker--shooting up real fast, bursts into lots of pretty colors, implodes shortly thereafter and is next found coaching Middle Tennessee State.

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