I started a thread about Kerry mentioning Cheney's gay daughter the day after the last debate and it was gone by noon that day.

Too bad. It was pretty well written actually /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif. I did not feel like rewriting it.

Sid_Vicious

10-26-2004, 06:47 AM

Somebody's getting a little "self-godly" in the admin deptartment huh. In the old days I'd have guessed as a name who might be "the one" in dictation mode toward these actions, so just maybe there's been one lurker from w-a-a-a-y back in CCB posting history come back to haunt the group in this way, kinda an insider with more strings than the rest...sid

Tom_In_Cincy

10-26-2004, 10:12 AM

Tom,
Once you register, you have implied you have accepted the rules of the forum. (see below)
If you want true freedom of speach, get a soap box and stand on a corner and speak all you want.

If you want to continue to post on the Billiards Digest Cue Chalk Board, you must follow the rules.

If you don't like the rule(s), maybe an email to the moderator/admin or even Billiards Digest webmaster or the editor himself.

But, like it or not, by registering to the forum, you've implied your acceptance. Now you are just a negative voice that is doing nothing more than complaining.

From the FAQ
[ QUOTE ]
What are the rules?
Registration as a User implies acceptance of the following terms and conditions: - Participants shall not post any material likely to cause offence, that is protected by copyright, trademark or other proprietary right - without the express permission of the owner of such copyright - or that contains personal phone numbers or addresses.
- Participants may not use the Forums to post or transmit advertisements or commercial solicitations of any kind.
- The appropriate Forum Moderator has the right to edit, censor, delete or otherwise modify any posted message.
- This web site does not verify or guarantee the accuracy of the material posted to the Forums or bear any responsibility for any loss, damage, or other liabilities caused by any posted message.
<hr /></blockquote>

I have a problem with someone deleting posts in order to restrict and channel the open discussion in this forum to suit his personal preferences, morality, prejudices, and agenda.

I have a problem with someone who has deemed himself the judge of which professional pool players are acceptable to quote, mention, or discuss in a thread.

I have a problem with someone who has deemed himself the judge of which words from a nationally televised debate, uttered by a US Senator and the potential next President of the United States, may be discussed in the Non-Pool Forum.

This person is making CCB a less vibrant, interesting and informative place. It was never like that before, yet you and he want to make it like that now.

Well that is not what I want.

That is what you want. And it's OK with me that you said it. Let anyone who has an opinion express it. Just don't have some Admin decide which viewpoints are acceptable and which are subject to deletion because they don't conform to his dictatorial myopic vision. Let the people take from here what they want, and let them leave the rest. They can decide for themselves. They're adults.

The real problem here is that neither your nor the Admin's conception of right and wrong, good and evil, moral or immoral, is correct. Not that it's incorrect either. It's just yours, and thatís OK; in fact, it's fine. But if you expect me to gladly suffer having you and the Admin shove your morality, prejudices, quirks, preferences, principles, likes and dislikes down my throat, you are mistaken.

And I feel sorry for anyone on this forum, if there is anyone, who for whatever reason feels the need to have you and the Admin decide for them what they should and shouldn't be allowed to post or read.

You go off to billiards-pool.net and bad-mouth the CCB then come here and complain. The solution seems simple to me Tom ---
If you don't like the game, don't play.

Troy
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote TomBrooklyn:</font><hr> Someone from this forum is going around deleting threads. This person, presumably some kind of Admin, is an ignoramus.

TomBk <hr /></blockquote>

nAz

10-26-2004, 11:18 AM

censorship suxs big [censored]!
I agree with a lot of what you say Tom B. glad your around again. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

TomBrooklyn

10-26-2004, 11:34 AM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Troy:</font><hr> You go off to billiards-pool.net and bad-mouth the CCB then come here and complain.<hr /></blockquote>Indeed. Did I pledge that if some dictator with a delete button came on this board and screwed it up, that I would protect him by keeping it secret? And now I'm expressing my complaint right here. It just took me a while of staying away to get over the initial disgust.

hondo

10-26-2004, 12:03 PM

These types of shenanigans are typical of the
bush regime. Free Undercover Brother!

Tom_In_Cincy

10-26-2004, 12:04 PM

TomBrooklyn

I see that you have admitted you have problems.
I accept that.

BUT, Why are you including me in the "you and the admin" statements?

I do not moderate this forum and never have. Your assumptions about my involvement are idiodic. You assume way too much in your accusations.

IMO,Your posts are insulting. If I were the moderator and/or admin, I'd have bounced you a long time ago.

hondo

10-26-2004, 12:04 PM

As George says," You're either for me or against me".

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Troy:</font><hr> You go off to billiards-pool.net and bad-mouth the CCB then come here and complain. The solution seems simple to me Tom ---
If you don't like the game, don't play.

Troy
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote TomBrooklyn:</font><hr> Someone from this forum is going around deleting threads. This person, presumably some kind of Admin, is an ignoramus.

TomBk <hr /></blockquote> <hr /></blockquote>

hondo

10-26-2004, 12:09 PM

Should we ask the U.N. for help in banning him
or do we have enough info to proceed without
them? I agree, Tom. His kind of humor is extremely
dangerous.

I do not moderate this forum and never have. Your assumptions about my involvement are idiodic. You assume way too much in your accusations.

IMO,Your posts are insulting. If I were the moderator and/or admin, I'd have bounced you a long time ago.

<hr /></blockquote>

TomBrooklyn

10-26-2004, 12:24 PM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Tom_In_Cincy:</font><hr>Why are you including me in the "you and the admin" statements? ...If I were the moderator and/or admin, I'd have bounced you a long time ago. <hr /></blockquote>Good one Tom, you'd make a perfect Dictator, err, Admin.

Obviously, you have the ear of the admin and tend to share similar views with him. You make no bones about running to him like a gradeschool boy to a teacher, asking him to delete posts and threads that you don't like; rather than garnering enough courage and excercising enough imagination and logic to formulate a cognizant argument in opposition to the issue or poster you disagree with on your own.

TomBk

Edit note: Some of the above wasn't accurate and I'd like to retract it in part. Not all grade school boys do stuff like that.

Popcorn

10-26-2004, 12:37 PM

Who cares what they do, it's a stupid Internet board and it's their board, they can do what they want. Spend a few minutes reading each day and move on. If you don't like it don't log on.

TomBrooklyn

10-26-2004, 12:41 PM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote hondo:</font><hr>I agree, [Tom-in-Cincy]. [TomBrooklyn's] kind of humor is extremely
dangerous.<hr /></blockquote> People like Tom-In-Cincy, the current incarnation of the Admin, and Dictators from all times such as Stalin, Lenin, Pol Pot, and Saddam Hussein, prefer to silence their detractors. They cannot afford to allow dissent because their policies and desires are oppressive, unfair, demeaning, and primarily designed to secure and enhance their own power or prestige. Dissent will undermine their base and lead to their loss of influence. They do not wish to allow the people to be informed or discuss the oppressiveness of their regime freely.

Oh sure, they will present themselves as nice guys, bountiful providers, as having the best interests of everyone in mind. They will distribute favors and compliments to their supporters. They will give the appearance of being helpful. But look deeper. Make sure of what your getting before you buy into what is being said on the surface.

Watch out. Their further Modus Operandi is to allow enough freedom and recreation to the people to keep them just comfortable enough that they won't revolt or flee; but otherwise keep them under their thumb. Just watch the pattern as they try to develop it. It's classic.

Wally_in_Cincy

10-26-2004, 01:15 PM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote TomBrooklyn:</font><hr> People like Tom-In-Cincy, the current incarnation of the Admin, and Dictators from all times, real life recent examples including Stalin, Lenin, Pol Pot, and Saddam Hussein for instance, <hr /></blockquote>

and yappingwolf, who has been called the Al-Quaida and Hannibal Lector of the internet

Popcorn

10-26-2004, 02:08 PM

You need a serious reality check. Few things could have less importance then this Internet board.

Mr Ingrate

10-26-2004, 02:10 PM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote TomBrooklyn:</font><hr> The thread I started about entitled "Internet Terrorists Attack Pool Forum" or something like that was deleted, and I hear some thread Wally had a post in was deleted. <hr /></blockquote>
You were way out to lunch in that post. You should be glad it was deleted.

TomBrooklyn

10-26-2004, 02:24 PM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Tom_In_Cincy:</font><hr>If you don't like the rule(s), maybe an email to the moderator/admin or even Billiards Digest webmaster or the editor himself. <hr /></blockquote>The only email I might send to the admin is one requesting his resignation.

Actually, I think the Admin serves a useful purpose in highly unusual and extremely rare circumstances. That is when someone posts something grossly obscene or personally insulting to someone else. The operative words there are grossly and personal. Short of that, no intervention is justified or required.

This forum operated for years without any admin oversight and did splendidly on all but the rarest occasions. There were flame wars, yes. But they were between adults who participated freely and voluntarily in virtually every instance. No one who chose not to step into the fray got wounded. Some who got involved got singed. That's what happens in a flame war. So be it.

Do we need an adult babysitter to prevent this from happening? I say no. If people want to go off half cocked, let them suffer the consequences of their postings. The other posters have always taken care of business and gotten things sorted out on their own.

We don't need a babysitter monitoring what gets posted here. And when they start becoming overzealous for lack of anything better to do; they start deleting posts that are not even slightly obscene; but simply don't fit the mold of their or some crybabies arbitrary standards or sensibilities. At that point the Admin has become more than just useless; he has become a real detriment to the vitality and enjoyment one can derive from participating here.

TomBk

Barbara

10-26-2004, 02:47 PM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote TomBrooklyn:</font><hr>
This forum operated for years without any admin oversight and did splendidly on all but the rarest occasions. There were flame wars, yes. But they were between adults who participated freely and voluntarily in virtually every instance. No one who chose not to step into the fray got wounded. Some who got involved got singed. That's what happens in a flame war. So be it.

Do we need an adult babysitter to prevent this from happening? I say no. If people want to go off half cocked, let them suffer the consequences of their postings. The other posters have always taken care of business and gotten things sorted out on their own.

<hr /></blockquote>

There was nothing rare about Fast Larry. And if there wasn't a moderator, we'd still be suffering from him. Look what happened at RSB.

Barbara

TomBrooklyn

10-26-2004, 04:01 PM

<font color="blue">Hi Barbara,</font color>

Alright, letís look at what happened on RSB. Thatís a perfect example because RSB is a totally unmoderated forum.

They crushed Fast Larry. He returned to his home forum, billiards-pool.net (http://www.billiards-pool.net/modules/newbb/) and literally and publicly declared it so in one of the most heartfelt, saddest statements I ever saw posted on a pool forum. However, it was just the facts and part of history at that point. I think it was in the thread entitled CCB Sides with Heathen Terrorists from RSB (http://www.billiards-pool.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=733&amp;post_id=4001&amp;order=0&amp;vi ewmode=flat&amp;pid=0&amp;forum=1#4001) authored by moi during the height of the Great War. Unfortunately, it appears that thread is gone now, although there is one with the same name there in a continued (cont.) version.

Your example supports the underlying premise of this thread in splendid fashion. An unmoderated forum is much more effective at handling problems than a moderated one. A moderated CCB struggled and largely complained about FL for many months. RSB handled him decisively in a matter of what, several weeks?

I fully trust the old, pre-moderated CCB, would have imposed it's collective will much more effectively and swiftly than it did with it's current setup. It also might have helped Larry become a better person and better poster had he been interacting only directly with the actual participants of the board, rather than also with some faceless person behind a curtain ineptly trying to control the dialog.

TomBk

pooljunkie73

10-26-2004, 04:25 PM

Troll alert Troll alert !!!!!!!

Troy

10-26-2004, 05:51 PM

Poor TB... Everything is a conspiracy to him. Everyone is "out to get him"...
I suggest you seek professional help Tom. You appear to be extremely paranoid. Placing an Internet administrator in the same category with a Nation's Dictator is proof enough.

Maybe you should consider putting anti-spy equipment on your phone(s).

I also suggest you put foil over your windows and wear a foil hat to resist the beaming signals from entering what remains of your brain.

Troy...~~~ Couldn't stop myself... /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote TomBrooklyn:</font><hr>People like Tom-In-Cincy, the current incarnation of the Admin, and Dictators from all times such as Stalin, Lenin, Pol Pot, and Saddam Hussein, prefer to silence their detractors. They cannot afford to allow dissent because their policies and desires are oppressive, unfair, demeaning, and primarily designed to secure and enhance their own power or prestige. Dissent will undermine their base and lead to their loss of influence. They do not wish to allow the people to be informed or discuss the oppressiveness of their regime freely.

Oh sure, they will present themselves as nice guys, bountiful providers, as having the best interests of everyone in mind. They will distribute favors and compliments to their supporters. They will give the appearance of being helpful. But look deeper. Make sure of what your getting before you buy into what is being said on the surface.

Watch out. Their further Modus Operandi is to allow enough freedom and recreation to the people to keep them just comfortable enough that they won't revolt or flee; but otherwise keep them under their thumb. Just watch the pattern as they try to develop it. It's classic.
<hr /></blockquote>

Tom_In_Cincy

10-26-2004, 06:30 PM

TomBrooklyn

I believe you have an over inflated self importance complex.

If you think you and your posts have influenced any previous way of thinking by anyone, you are very sadly mistaken.

You sound like a flea on FL's butt. Your sounds are overwhelmed by FL's natural passings.

Continue if you must, but I say, your time on CCB is limited Not by the Admin, but by the lack of support you get.

Barbara

10-26-2004, 08:40 PM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote TomBrooklyn:</font><hr>
I fully trust the old, pre-moderated CCB, would have imposed it's collective will much more effectively and swiftly than it did with it's current setup. It also might have helped Larry become a better person and better poster had he been interacting only directly with the actual participants of the board, rather than also with some faceless person behind a curtain ineptly trying to control the dialog.

TomBk
<hr /></blockquote>

Tom,

Larry has a problem and it starts with the meds he's taking and the reaction to whatever he's drinking at the time. He is the veritable time bomb and this forum was proof of that. So was AZBilliards. I was actually surprised he was posting logically on that board but then "went off".

He needs to dial in his meds better and lay off the interactive schtuff.

Barbara

Ross

10-26-2004, 08:49 PM

Tom, I agree that the admin should only delete threads as a very last resort - mainly if they are filled with personal attacks. And maybe you have a legitimate gripe, maybe you don't. I don't have enough knowledge of what really happened to argue either way.

But I don't see how you can hold RSB up as a good example of how well unmoderated groups work. RSB was a total disaster for many months, not just a couple of weeks. It became totally unreadable. (I suspect that is why Bob J comes to visit us occasionally now.) And FL (or an alias, it doesn't matter for this point) is still posting personal attack crap there. From today, for example:

Take away the right to say "fu@k" and you take away the right to say "fu@k the government." ~Lenny Bruce

Censorship reflects society's lack of confidence in itself. It is a hallmark of an authoritarian regime. ~Potter Stewart

bring back FL!

Perk

10-27-2004, 10:59 AM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Tom_In_Cincy:</font><hr> You sound like a flea on FL's butt. <hr /></blockquote>

LMAO...great one liner.

PQQLK9

10-28-2004, 05:25 AM

After about three years on this board without any problems I have had two posts deleted in the last week.

Wally_in_Cincy

10-28-2004, 05:40 AM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote PQQLK9:</font><hr> After about three years on this board without any problems I have had two posts deleted in the last week. <hr /></blockquote>

I saw the deleted post under "energy boost" thread.

What was it?

Chris Cass

10-28-2004, 05:57 AM

Well it's about time homey. I remember once I went back to delete a post and was beat to it by Admin. I don't see anything wrong with it. There's so many subjects you can talk about who cares about a post of debate or 2?

I also have deleted my own a few times and asked Admin to help me with some myself. I don't like Tom being slammed but TB. That isn't fair. He's one of the nicest most open minded people I know. I can count on one hand how many people I know that would think nothing of going to leagths a family member wouldn't do for you and Tom in Cinci would with just a mere thought of me needing help.

Anyway, hope your not too upset dawg,

Chris~~BTW, slamming Admin is only asking for deletion. imho free speech is one thing but the board intent isn't to just go crazy with opinions. Yet, I have nothing against TB but it's not like he posts regularly. Not that it's a requirement but when he has of late have all been neg comments or stuff that doesn't fit his character from what I remember of TB. Wonder what's up?

PQQLK9

10-28-2004, 06:12 AM

The first delection was an article about the "Spider" that they said was an Ad and the energy thread was a suggestion for "sum poosie" the energy drink (I included the web link).
I guess I've been a bad boy. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Well at least you didn't recommend some "Dicken's Cider" /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Sid_Vicious

10-28-2004, 06:41 AM

I wondered where that post went. I'm getting on the bandwagon...some AH in charge has gotten way too righteous cuz that post was more politically correct than the bulk of what evening TV exhibits. Where's this delete trend going to lead, maybe to deleting all Rebublican's posts ;-)

It is getting farther out of hand folks, after all this ain't kindergarden...sid

SPetty

10-28-2004, 08:15 AM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote PQQLK9:</font><hr> The first delection was an article about the "Spider" that they said was an Ad <hr /></blockquote>The post where someone asked if anyone had seen it and what they thought about it? That wasn't an ad! Man, if they don't like that, then they won't like this:

Same thing with me. I had a post deleted out of the NonPool Related forum before any of you guys saw it. I had posted it about midnightish back in September I think and the next morning it was gone and I had a PM from the Admin. But mine deserved to be deleted I guess. It was bad. Very bad. It was a parody of Gloria Gaynor's song "I Will Survive" about the, ahem, male member. The admin told me that kids might be reading the site. My bad.

If any of you watch the Simpsons, the Admin's message reminded me of the Reverend Lovejoy's wife "Oh, will someone please think of the children!" LOL

hondo

10-28-2004, 11:16 AM

[I've noticed an odd change in tb, too,CC. My theory
is that Fast Larry has taken over possession of
his body. Quick! Somebody call an exorcist.

quote=Chris Cass] Well it's about time homey. I remember once I went back to delete a post and was beat to it by Admin. I don't see anything wrong with it. There's so many subjects you can talk about who cares about a post of debate or 2?

I also have deleted my own a few times and asked Admin to help me with some myself. I don't like Tom being slammed but TB. That isn't fair. He's one of the nicest most open minded people I know. I can count on one hand how many people I know that would think nothing of going to leagths a family member wouldn't do for you and Tom in Cinci would with just a mere thought of me needing help.

Anyway, hope your not too upset dawg,

Chris~~BTW, slamming Admin is only asking for deletion. imho free speech is one thing but the board intent isn't to just go crazy with opinions. Yet, I have nothing against TB but it's not like he posts regularly. Not that it's a requirement but when he has of late have all been neg comments or stuff that doesn't fit his character from what I remember of TB. Wonder what's up? <hr /></blockquote>

I was upset about having my thread deleted obviously. I think the board was much more fun and interesting when people could post without having things deleted.

I'm not slamming Tom-in-Cincy personally. I think Tom's a nice guy. Notice when he started calling me names, I didn't even respond. I'm just critical of Tom's support for having a post-deleting admin. OK, I got dramatic about it. That was just to emphasize the point and meant to be funny at the same time. Isn't it ridiculous to compare TomIC and the Admin to Stalin and Saddam Hussein?

Frankly though, it irks me when people PM the admin and whine about something someone wrote. I believe if they don't like something, they ought to close the thread and not go back into it. Lots of times, someone will even contribute to the very discussion they later complain about. I think the board would be better off if people thought more carefully about what they posted before they submit it. Knowing they can contribute to a firestorm and then get bailed out by an Admin works against the idea of being more responsible in the first place.

Also, there are things some people don't care for but others enjoy reading. I used to like a lot of what Fast Larry wrote for instance. I thought some things he wrote were whacky, but that was part of what made it interesting. Nobody was forced to respond to him, but some of the responses he got and his responses in turn, were a hoot. So then a bunch of people, after getting involved with him in this or that, decide they don't like it anymore, and they lobby to have the whole thing deleted and even have FL banned. Well some people liked to read his stuff. Thatís what bothers me.

Anyway, having what I think of as a babysitter seems to be the way the board has gone now and there's probably no going back to the old way. I already knew that and it's partly why I don't participate as much as I used to.

I just got pissed all over again when the admin deleted my thread. There was nothing obscene or insulting in it. It was perhaps a controversial topic written in a flamboyant style that the Admin or some people didn't care for it so it got deleted. Tom Cincy even posted in it that he was going to lobby the Admin to have it deleted. I at least give him more credit for being openly opposed to it than I do to those who PM the Admin on the QT. I never did care much for snitches, and that is what PMíg the Admin seems like to me.

Basically, if anything controversial that doesn't suit the preference of a few readers is going to get deleted, I think that's an unfortunate thing that makes this forum much less interesting. And I feel sad about that, because I like CCB.

TomBk

PS, I changed the subject of this post. I don't really think the Admin is an ignoramus. Anyway, I was addressing the "Admin" not as a person but as an entity. No one even knows who the "Admin" is; for all I know it's more than one person with access to the controls.

Rich R.

10-29-2004, 03:29 AM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote TomBrooklyn:</font><hr> I think the board would be better off if people thought more carefully about what they posted before they submit it.<hr /></blockquote>
Some should follow their own advise. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote TomBrooklyn:</font><hr>I used to like a lot of what Fast Larry wrote for instance. I thought some things he wrote were whacky, but that was part of what made it interesting. Nobody was forced to respond to him, but some of the responses he got and his responses in turn, were a hoot. So then a bunch of people, after getting involved with him in this or that, decide they don't like it anymore, and they lobby to have the whole thing deleted and even have FL banned. Well some people liked to read his stuff. Thatís what bothers me.<hr /></blockquote>
Although I was not one of those who complained about FL, the main problem with him was that you couldn't ignore him or get away from him. He invaded almost every thread on the CCB, with his trash talking and he insulted everyone who didn't agree with him.
Heck, he insulted me, one time, for my tag line, which I had been using long before he appeared on the CCB.
Frankly, I'm glad he is gone and I hope he is gone for good. JMHO.