<Swift> Ive got a philosophical question if any one is up to it?<d0nut> go for it<Swift> What is choice?<d0nut> a decision to be man<d0nut> s/man/made/<Swift> ok now do we have choice?<d0nut> depends on which aspect of what you are talking about having a choice in<Swift> could youelaborate<d0nut> that's actually what i was trying to say<d0nut> what are you talking about having a choice in?<Swift> My point is that you have no choice in any matter<d0nut> but to do what is already supposed to happen?<d0nut> have you been watching the matrix?<Swift> for instance if i say choose between red and blue I am forcing you to choose their for you have no choice<d0nut> oh<d0nut> then you have no choice but to choose red or blue?<d0nut> assuming they are the same thing then no you don't<d0nut> or if you hadn't considered just walking away<Swift> true but then in every plain two option question like choose red or blue you would have 4 options<Swift> well 3 actually 1: answer red, 2: answer blue, 3: dont answer<d0nut> but then how does that mean you don't have a choice?<Swift> but still being forced to choose one of those options<d0nut> hrmm...<d0nut> i don't see how that's not a choice<Swift> choice is supposed to be a type of freewill how could you have freewill if you are forced to choose one of the options<d0nut> you could have just as easily decided not to talk to the person asking you the question<d0nut> walked down a different road and never seen them<d0nut> it could also be something as easy as you being delayed and walking down the road it would have happened on but the person asking the question wasn't there yet or had already left<Swift> but then that goes into fate<d0nut> if you believe in fate, and that's a decision too<d0nut> so, in a way there is no escaping a choice, you are confronted with them no matter which way you may turn<d0nut> brb, bathroom<Swift> not necessarily for my prior events in my life causes me to "choose" that I do or do not. Since we were born we were taught from a child in what to belive by people surrounding us we had no "choice" in that. Which causes us to belive in what we do now<Swift> sure we can change what we belive in but no matter how hard you try what you were taught when you were a child stays with you<d0nut> hrmm<d0nut> but then it's not a choice in the beginning<Swift> unless you gain amnesia but then it happens all over again as if you were a child. the people surrounding you teaches what is right and what is wrong, and if those surrounding you all do the same then you have no choice or didnt know even would have such an option to disagree<Swift> so how do you have choice?<Swift> then what is it?<d0nut> then that's not a choice if an option is not available from the beginning<Swift> but it is you just didnt know it right like you said you could have walked away<d0nut> not if you didn't know any better, or if you didn't have the option of walking away leaving behind your people/way of life<Swift> accoriding to what you said earler you could always walk away<d0nut> well, not always, in the situation in my mind you could, but if you have no means of continuing your life after walking away then you couldn't<Swift> how could you not continue your life?<Swift> the only way i see a remotly way of haveing choice is this...<d0nut> well, in a theoretical situation, such as leaving a family that provides for you and/or you can provide yourself, then you couldn't just leave<Swift> you could leave but in that case it would be stupid to do so...<Swift> i think thats what your getting at<d0nut> well, if you never went back then you would die<Swift> ok what would life be like if you were to wake up with amnesia with nothing to remember and every one was gone... then i think you would have choice...<d0nut> with no one/no past experiences to affect your judgement<Swift> right<Swift> but since no one has that you have no choice<d0nut> ...to do only what you would do, something extremely individual<d0nut> i see what you mean<Swift> right<Swift> thats my point<Swift> so would you now agree we have no choice<d0nut> yes<Swift> thank you very much for enlightening you<Swift> :)<d0nut> lol<d0nut> i was about to say the same to you<d0nut> thank you very much for enlightening me<Swift> your welcome lol<Swift> i hope you have fun "choosing" the next time some one gives you a "choice"<d0nut> now, to continue, do you think instincts, instincts humans aren't supposed to have would take over?<d0nut> kind of leaving philosophy<d0nut> :/<Swift> umm<Swift> this is a good one... but then i would say that people who think that the one living organism that has "Choice" in the matter would take over but then what does...<Swift> maybe a one cell orgainsism but then do they have "Choice"<Swift> :}<Swift> what do you think?<d0nut> it kind of makes me think that instinct or a human in "primal mode" is just a person making their own decisions<Swift> true but then their parents taught them...no?<Swift> then it would go to the first thing on this planet had to made its own "choice" right? but what is that?<d0nut> the bible says that eve was influenced to make the choice of eating the apple<d0nut> and adam followed suit<d0nut> another speculation would be that something experience something to make them not do whatever that was <d0nut> say, if the first thing on earth hit it's head<Swift> *too what you written before* umm<Swift> "that something experience something to make them not do whatever that was say" but then what would of said something to it...<d0nut> themselves<d0nut> to not want or to want to feel what they experienced<Swift> ah i see what your saying i think so the first thing just happened to wonder say which space to sleep in this one or that one?<Swift> something like that?<d0nut> sure<d0nut> like say if they stepped on something that hurt them, they wouldn't want to relive the experience<Swift> but then too me i would think it would automaticlly sleep in the one that best suites it self therefor not giving it that choice<Swift> ah<Swift> which would cause them not to choose to step on it again i c<Swift> but then back to your question what would have it been? since it was the first thing on earth<d0nut> that's why started with a bible reference<d0nut> the situation was already there<d0nut> but, i'm not sure what it would be<d0nut> creationists generally assume some superpowered entity creates man<Swift> i didnt really read the bible so not too good of a reference XD umm didnt adam make eve eat the apple?<Swift> that it does<d0nut> nah, it was a serpent that represented the devil<Swift> o<Swift> i learn something new lol thank you for that<d0nut> but evolustionists believe life started with basic life<Swift> which was what bacteria<Swift> or simpler<d0nut> not necesarily<Swift> ...<d0nut> it would probably just be a cingle-celled organism that survived in the chemicals of earth<d0nut> survived in/on<Swift> right<Swift> but was there just one at one time or did two of them appear at the same time...<d0nut> i don't think there is any way to know exactly<Swift> true true<d0nut> i would think multiple completely different organisms spawned in different corners of the world<Swift> i would have to agree with that statement as well<d0nut> although it could also have been an organism that came from space<d0nut> although it's very unlikely<Swift> true but i was not wanting to bring that into a factor cause then its like where did that come from xd<d0nut> lol, good point<Swift> :)<Swift> so many questions lol so little answers

So tell me what you think about it or if you have your own ideas post em up

I wouldn't say we never have a choice. We make choices all the time, that's why every day isn't the same. I would agree with the statement that choices are limited. Take your basic example of choosing between red or blue. While we have to either choose red or blue and we are limited to what we can pick, we still have a choice in the matter. Two people can have different colors, and the thing that made it different was their choice. To me, having no choice would be like, "take this red, it's all i got."

Towards the end of the convo when you guys were talking about life and it's origin you say:

<d0nut> but evolustionists believe life started with basic life<Swift> which was what bacteria<Swift> or simpler<d0nut> not necesarily<Swift> ...<d0nut> it would probably just be a cingle-celled organism that survived in the chemicals of earth<d0nut> survived in/on<Swift> right<Swift> but was there just one at one time or did two of them appear at the same time...<d0nut> i don't think there is any way to know exactly<Swift> true true<d0nut> i would think multiple completely different organisms spawned in different corners of the world<Swift> i would have to agree with that statement as well<d0nut> although it could also have been an organism that came from space<d0nut> although it's very unlikely

I disagree that it's, "very unilkely" an organism came from space. Space is obviously huge, and has more chance something coming from out there than something be created on earth. There is no way to know, but I try to lean more towards of what had the most chance of happening.

It's some crazy shit to think about and definitely keeps the gears grinding. That's one thing I do know.

Sorry to be off topic, although I think the topic is stupid anyways, but I would like to bring up the new life form the found made entirely of Arsenic. Goggle for details, quite remarkable.

Logical_ brought up life coming from space. I disagree, we would experience "life" coming from space even today in that case. I believe in evolution and Darwinism. As you can see, even Arsenic can spawn life, therefore we must assume that nearly ANY environment could support life. so it's only normal to assume multiple different life forms formed on earth at nearly similar times or even very separate times.

The glass is neither half-full nor half-empty; it's merely twice as big as it needs to be.

What's up with all of these quasi-philosophical questions? "What is Truth?" "What is Choice?" "What is the Matrix?" Questions like these are for retarded hipster faggots who think they are being edgy and deep by asking "What is X" where X is any non-physical noun. Go back to the café and order another espresso choco mocha double triple latte with a half-twist shot of caramel and non-mainstream whipped cream. Fucking hippies.

Upset is when someone misinterprets recent breaking discoveries and believes that scientists made organisms that survive entirely off of arsenic instead of mostly off of arsenic.

Upset is when you see d0nut rape the theory of evolution and then chop off its balls for good measure.

However, most of all, upset is when someone takes a topic that has good potential for discussion (What's the point of choice if you only get one option? How is that better than just having that one option in the first place?) and turns it into a discussion entirely about the definition/semantics of a word (What is "choice")?