You know how sometimes people say things that shock you so much your jaw drops to the floor and you are left breathless, not able to reposte. Well, I just have to get these things off my chest or I will burst with indignation and their cheek. Yes, I know most people are sweet, and polite and interested, and smile and really do want to know about what you are doing. But then there are the few, the others .....

"Have you got any number 8's?"
eh ... actually I remembered a previous conversation at another event with this lady and was able to work out she was talking about beads.

"I'm going to report you to the organiser"
So I carefully told the lady how to find the organisers caravan. She was incandescent with rage because I had asked her daughter, very politely, not to handle my belongings. She had wiped her nose on her fingers and touched everything infront of her. When she wiped her nose the second time and went to touch ... honest, I was very polite.

"Can I have a discount as I have bought so much"
This lady had spent £13.15 on 7 pieces of ribbon that had been measured and cut and put into a really nice paper bag. When told that she could have the 15p taken off she said:
"I thought you would give me £1 off"

The trick is to say it with a wide beaming smile, stretching the mouth into a "Y" sound shape, then bring the lips in and out for the "No" then back into the smile shape at the end of the "sss" sound (practise in front the mirror). So your mouth has said "Y - No - sss" but they have heard - emphatically - NO. It confuses the hell out of people, totally wrong foots them, and scrambles the mind. Buzzled, they shrug and hand over their money.

That and me simultaneously blasting their thought processes with my secret mind control device. Very soon they will all be puppets in my quest for total power and world domination.

somebody once took a tunic of the rail that was priced at 'x' - forget exactly what as was a few years ago, but for once I'd actually tagged everything.

she plunked it down on the table and said "I'll take that for [whatever 'x' - £10 was]". I was dumbfounded, Nigel said, " no you won't". She walked off in a huff.

And there was the time I had a surcote hanging up at the back of the stall, waiting to be collected. Some bloke (horible, loud, arrogant type) asked to try it on, I said sorry, it's an order, but if you'd like to order one.....then went back to the order I was taking.

He dodged Nige and Martin to get behind the stall, took it off the hanger and put it on.

He then complained that it didn't fit. I refrained from pointing out that I knew that before he tried it on because the person it was made for was smaller than him in full armour (no point in getting personal).

I told him for the fourth time that he couldn't buy it cos it was an order waiting to be picked up.
He asked if I could make one, I said I wouldn't make one exactly the same, cos it was in somebody's colours, but that I could do something similar, and asked when he needed it. Three weeks he said. Now, I know this next bit was bad of me, but I couldn't help it - it was involuntary. At the time my waiting list was c. 8 months - and I laughed at him - out loud.

He goes off in a huff, and we think no more of it until about half an hour later when he comes back with another costumer who shall remain nameless. She has her sketchbook in her hand, and proceeds to attempt to draw a sketch of the surcote so she can copy it. Nige swiftly puts a stop to that.

At some point the bloke whose surcoate it was will meet the other guy on a batlefield, and that'll be fun - do hope somebody videos it.

Then there was the people who accused me of having plastic buttons on a jack.

And the woman who spent ages examining a victorian dress for a fault, and then turned to me and said - machined buttonholes. Cos where was the sign that said it was hand finished??? The signe saying machined, was on top of the dummy on the other hand....

And at the last re-enactors market somebody insisted that the pockets in the tabs of a 16th C doublet I had on display were wrong. Clearly I imagined the well documented doublet that had them....

tell me about it - if I see peeps in person I'l give the names of both these illustrious costume types - not gonna do it in writing for obv reasons, but afaik they don't post here, but may lurk, so if they do <shake fists>

Former long time associate saw what I was doing at an event with kids & said outright - 'I'm going to copy you'... Then found that she not only copied that idea, but also my 'pocket money' item, makes bad copies & now sells them through a third party who I did have a long standing if small arrangement with... haven't sold any through that source since...

I wouldn't mind but I'm not exactly a major competitor on the commercial front!

I have to comfort myself knowing that karma will out in the end It has affected my making these without my realising it till now...haven't felt like making any since I found out.

I know - who'd have thought the replica tile business could be so cut-throat!!!

BTW I don't have a problem at all (how could I?!) with fellow artists/makers such as Joolz who share my passion for medieval tiles - I hope I've been encouraging to him in his wild enthusiasm which I share whole heartedly - it's wonderful to meet other people who wear the same design of anorak!

Just sad that someone thought so little of me to do me out of the odd £30 that I made every few months...

Still, on the bright side, I'm off to Leeds Armouries tomorrow to do what I love for 10 days, sharing my enthusiasm for art & history with small people in a clay coated sort of way

We always get asked for discounts !!
I usually oblige to the great annoyance of my partner We make very little margin on our stock as it is but i always like to look after regulars but when we get asked to dicount one rabbit pelt from £5 down its a bit much !
Hence, we have decided to institute a traders discount of 10% (if asked for) !!
Anyway, my point is, people seem to think as traders we make huge profits and only do this for a bit of fun ! We have to rely on re-enactment to pay the mortgage and bills. we have no other source of income and to offer a range of items as wide as possible costs money. Speculation on what will or wont sell can cost you big time if you get it wrong.
Dave.

Half of me is all in favour of a name and shame, personally my business does not stand or fall on the historical stuff, so a full on barney would be no loss, all the better if it embarrassed the knobbers outright.

We put up with too much crap, the stuff we produce hardly sends us off to Buenos Aires for the summer, it ticks over, is often hard work and moreover has involved lots of hard work to be the humble enterprise that it is. Scum bags, and they are scum bags, low life, couldn't give a crap about anyone else, lazy and unimaginative tossers basicaly spoil it for everyone else. I used to feel sorry for people like that, thinking that they must lack something fundamental in their lives to do such things, but I don't, I despise them and if I know they sell rip offs of other makers' works I wont buy them, even if they are the only trader at the place selling it, I can wait.

I am not, of course, talking about selling the same kind of stuff, that is fine and a good thing as it often shows there is a market, especially of more than one trader is doiung it. My beef is with specific things that get pirated, items that couldn't be found elsewhere, products of lots of research that then become bastardised, watered down versions, passing off as the real deal. We as traders/reenactors should not put up with that crap, those people that do that are not my mates, nor will they be, nor should they be. Rather than do their own research and actually add to the knowledge gene pool and a greater diversitry of well made products, they would rather take the easy route, stuff them, they wont as far as I am aware get any of my money, I know what it is like to sweat over a project and get the thing produced, I don't make a living out of it, but I have friends who do and that is not fair chaps, it is not fair.

I am paranoid as it is about being copied, now I feel worse after reading this thread - I fear more sleepless nights coming..........! I agree Jorge, bring back the stocks! They haven't sweated blood, gone without sleep, researched, sketched, re-sketched, done trials, etc. etc.

As we are new to these markets we are only just learning who are the 'real deal' and who are not. I certainly would not buy from those who copy.

But, the problem is that you will get people who will as a) they don't know they are copies and b) they don't care, they just care about price.

I like that John Ruskin saying;
"There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey."

It doesn't make it any easier, ofcourse.......... just think of the bad karma these people are collecting...!

We have had people trying to take photos, and asking very leading questions............ Although most people to date have been lovely and complimentary, you get the odd awkward ****** - I suspect it's the same person who goes around all the traders!

Tam, I wouldn't lose sleep over it, it is annoying, but comfort yourself knowing that the community is small, although widespread, it likes to gossip, word gets round, there are loads of cheap tat merchants who copy others, they do a worse job than you could on a bad day with your hands tied behind your back, you wont get rid of them. Just make sure you do the best markets you can for your stuff.

We make stuff that we did not invent, that is the reality and is fine, but the specific items we make are our own and that we should strive to protect them and our reputations.

I wish I could name and shame without starting a slanging match, and possible libel threats for cal. but it would, and I really can't be bothered with that.

I'm better than her, and have plans afoot to hang her out to dry as it is though having seen said woman openly cutting the labels out of something she'd bought in so she could pass it off as her own, nothing would now surprise me.....

let's just say I feel that certain relatively recent (last couple of years) happenings to a particular trader at a particular market are karma

Going back to Kate's tiley things - I'm happy to fess up that I'm the pig in the middle.
I'm friends with both parties.
I have stuff from both of them for sale.
Kate's is better quality and I point this out.
However, I sell most of my little things to school children.
I invite parents to send their child to school with a maximum of £3.
On average half bring £2 and half bring £1.
Kate's things sell for £3.
T'other person's for £2.
Since Kate's things went up from £2 to £3 I've only sold the odd one.
That's economics.

Then at fairs there's the psychology -
Kate's tiley things are probably her cheapest item so folk fall in love with her wares, cannott afford the proper tiles but will be tempted by her cheaper tiley things.
With me they are at the expensive end of my bits and bobs range....
And at fairs I don't sell stuff I've bought from someone trading at that fair.

I have looked at other people's stuff and been inspired, I have drawn things....although I must admit I go back to my researchy books and end up altering things to produce a finished garment.
I have had people make what I do. It's a bit hard to say whether they are copying my stuff or copying the originals.
People have got miffed when I undercut them and I have been miffed when they undercut me.

I don't have a problem with people seeing stuff you do and thinking - 'ooh, I wanna make one of them', then going and doing their own reserach and doing it their own way. have done that - seen a thing on a stall, and thought ooh - that looks like a fun make, let's find out about it.

I also dont have a problem with people making (say) a shirt or jack and making it for less than me.

it's the direct copy artists that get me - the ones who either can't do - or perhaps more accurately can't be bothered to do - their own research, so use mine.

and when they buy something to copy the pattern.....

but I suppose that's the main diference between me and those I mention above - I'm always looking to do something new and interesting - stuff I haven't done before, and to create the 'want' factor in people's minds. they just do what they already know they can.

Going back to Frances original idea of people saying daft things......

Kentwell endeavors to part the 1000 school kids who visit each day from their last penny and to that end wracks their collective brain to provide pocket money stuff to buy.
One thing happens to be a really rubbishly made linen 'pocket' which, doing a quick calculation, must be bought in at around 25p and we were selling for 60p (a Tudor penny).
On a public day a lady walked in and decided the first thing she must visit should be the Market.
She picked up the said linen pocket and declared "Oh I'm so disappointed! It's machine stitched."
There was a quarter of a minute's silence while I tried to work out the Tudorese for "What planet are you on?"