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226 Responses to “General Debate 26 April 2014”

The Reserve Bank of New Zealand’s (RBNZ) Michael Reddell has written an interesting paper questioning the merits of New Zealand’s high immigration program, which appears to have crowded-out (through higher interest rates and a high average real exchange rate) other productive investment, lowering living standards in the process:

Reddell’s paper follows analysis completed earlier this month by the New Zealand Treasury, which questioned the merits of high immigration, and recommended a reduced immigration intake in the event that the economy is unable to adequately cope with population pressures.

It also follows a 2011 report by New Zealand’s Savings Working Group, which also supported the notion that high levels of immigration tend to put upward pressure on inflation and interest rates, which can crowd-out productive sectors of the economy.

As argued many times on this blog, a big negative of high rates of immigration is that it places increasing pressure on the pre-existing (already strained) stock of infrastructure and housing, reducing productivity and living standards unless costly new investments are made, which in turn chokes-off other productive investment.

Indeed, as explained in a 2011 speech by the Reserve Bank of Australia’s Phil Lowe (summarised here), rapid population growth (immigration) since the mid-2000s has placed upward pressure on rents, as well as caused a big surge in utilities prices as the capacity of the system struggled to keep pace with the growing demand, requiring costly new investments.

In a similar vein, modelling by the Productivity Commission has found that immigration is neither beneficial for the economy or living standards, nor can it sustainably alleviate the impacts of an ageing population.

Any objective examination of the facts suggests that the case for a high level of immigration is anything but clear-cut and those advocating a strong migration program need to justify their position.

John Armstrong has Labour at 23%.
That party and the inept bastards who now run it deserve worse than that.
McCarten is inept, and Cunliffe is the same, and the party president, talk about three peas in a pod.
The only person i can find more inept to be honest is that female leader of the Greens. She is seriously below average intelligence and i never say that lightly.
Hopefully after the election they will puff away on Cunliffes Harvard poem and retire themselves and the Party to history. Labour founders will be turning in their grave as to what its become.

Fairfax and APN are really competing with each other for Labour favour. Their publications this morning are a blatant display of left-wing propaganda, and to me it is time these two mediums were taken to task. Even “Wanganui Chronicle” has a pro-Labour slant, featuring the weasly little business failure and his cohort, “Tojo” in one story, then Mr Ed being promoted in the next.

After seeing “Tojo” texting during the Anzac service in Titirangi, it made me realise what a disrespectful mongrel he is . . . it also reinforces rumours of his intention to disestablish the RSA movement, as it does not fit his pacifist background, preferring the white poppy brigade.

To top it all off NewstalkZB are doing a grease to the Greens as well. Are we going to get a real bombardment of leftie shit till Jones’ resignation calms down?

Left right…
Yes fair point about Rogernomics, but NZ was about to go bankrupt when that happened so what choice was there and it wasnt actually run by a bunch of social engineering homosexuals then who are intent on social change rather than a good days pay for a good days work..
Yes National got a hiding but they came back as Labour started turning into it what it has become now. I dont see Labour being able to change back towards the centre, the whole party has changed how its structured for leaderships etc, they have become a party of small interest groups and it shows so they deserve to be wiped out as a main party ever again

I believe worse is to come for Labour. As Armstrong points out, the Shane Jones appointment is the blow from National that puts them on the ropes a few months out from an election that should have seen them breathing down National’s neck.

Does anyone think National is going to offer Labour a gentlemanly hand up to continue some sort of Good Fight?

No, I’d say they are shortly going to repeatedly slam the idiot party in the face with an advertising campaign, ‘facts’, killer debates etc so they can’t get up and fight again, and relegate Labour to Green party size status. Only a fool would do otherwise, and clearly the strategists ain’t fools.

So expect to see more good shit from National in the coming months with the final killer blow being a nice little gift right before the election for all the lofos – something like a reduction in fuel excise, something to tip the balance good and proper, and as I am so fond of saying, National will govern alone. Has to be the plan.

National crashed in 2002, made major changes and came close to coming back and winning in 2005.

Labour crashed (not as badly) in 2011, changed little but leadeership twice and stand a distinct chance of crashing even more this year. Four months isn’t long to make major changes and turn things around.

Labour can’t afford to change leader again, and in any case there is no one obvious who could step up now Jones has stepped right out.

Grant Robertson could have been a possible replacement but he seems to have taken to hard core attack politics which isn’t a good look for a prospective leader.

DuggleDog
Yes National cant slow it down, Labour must be annihilated, i hate what they have become to represent and it must be crushed to nothing and then buried deep in the longest long drop.
No one who talks the hubris nonsense of Cunliffe or the vitriol of Mccarten or has the ineptitude of Moria Coastesworth should ever be able to be considered for political life again

I wouldn’t credit the National strategists with too much “intelligence”.

I suspet their winning formula rests on Mr Popular Key.It seems wimmin like him. He has not rolled back the election bribes offered by labour to win past elections and he steadfastly continues to borrow money to keep us all in the lifestyle to which we have become accustomed.

Meanwhile what was once anathema to true National supporters has become mainstreamed,racial and far left social policy.Not to mention the attacks on private property rights in respect of the tobacco industry.

The winning formula is “Labour Lite”.

National have appeared to manage the GFC but simply kicked the ball down the road. There will still have to be a reckoning.

National has selected Alistair Scott, a mid 40s ex CS First Boston man, and owner of the Matahiwi Winery in Masterton, to stand in Wairarapa.

More than 150 qualified members (no outsiders at all, must be party member for 12 months, and must lived in constituency for six months) voted Scott in ahead of three other candidates. Scott was by far the mist impressive of the four and secured the necessary 50% + 1 ahead of list member Jo Hayes.
John Hayes (no relation) had earlier announced his retirement.

Scott’s main opposition on Sept. 20 will be a 27 year old TAB bookie (but “importantly”: a Pol Sci graduate) – a strange choice given Labour’s professed anti gambling stance.

Doesn’t matter how many times it is picked over, Jones has gone. If he was going to be the difference between Labour winning or losing they’re buggered full stop, yet it seems the right is concerned about his departure which seems incongruent. Possibly for a few more days this will seem some meaningful peak or trough then the close analysis of JC will resume, and even as likely, disputes concerning which dairy produce companies have been shut out of China and what the Government did or didn’t do for them. On Collins it seems that JK is rehabilitating her reputation by pointing out that Labour are languishing in the polls because of it’s attack on her private dinner in China. In fact Labour’s polling has been in the doldrums for a long time, and more significantly the popularity of its various recent leaders has as well – I thought that would be something JK would be encouraging rather than pointing out what he believes to be the cause, catch 22.

Sean Hannity’s libertarian hero Cliven Bundy graces the world with his views on ‘niggers’ and how their social ills could be remedied with a good ol’ dose of cotton-pickin
…
but people don’t pick cotton by hand so he is musing:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cotton_picker

The Labour Party could be in structural decline which could be permanent. A charismatic leader could do it and bring them back. A dreadful scandal could mortally wound National. But right now Labour looks toast so why vote for it.

Left, right and center – ….bankrupt after the end of which governing party that ruled despite losing the popular vote under FPP ? ”

Yes it was National and Robert Muldoon.

How did he do that? By implementing policies that look remarkedly similar to what Labour and the Greens are now promoting. Tax, spend, regulate, exchange rate controls and government heavily involved in all business activity.

So, if you want to see what NZ mid 1984 looks like, vote Labour / Green and find out.

Labour must come back. We really need free trailer registration, expensive light bulbs and a political master class comprised of fabian socialists telling us proletariat how to live, based on what their political science lecturers told them when they were doing their BAs at Otago University.

I wish to make a formal complaint to the New Zealand Serious Fraud Office (SFO) alleging bribery and corruption against Minister of Foreign Affairs Murray McCully, under s.103 (2) of the Crimes Act 1961:

(PLEASE NOTE – THIS IS A ‘BRIBERY AND CORRUPTION’ COMPLAINT – NOT A ‘SERIOUS AND COMPLEX FRAUD’ COMPLAINT!)

Please also be advised that if the SFO chooses not to prosecute, it is my intention to engage the services of Graham McCready, Prosecutor for Private Prosecution Services Ltd.

(2)Every one is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 7 years who corruptly gives or offers or agrees to give any bribe to any person with intent to influence any member of Parliament in respect of any act or omission by him or her in his or her capacity as a member of Parliament.
______________________________________________________________________________________________

The ‘offer’ made by Minister of Foreign Affairs Murry McCully, being the job offer of ‘Pacific Economic Ambassador’ to Labour Party MP, Shane Jones.

The ‘intent to influence any member of Parliament in respect of any act’ being to encourage Labour Party MP Shane Jones to leave Parliament as an MP.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________

Shane Jones to leave Labour, set to work with Murray McCully
Tuesday, 22 April 2014, 6:15pm
Source: TV3
Shane Jones is quitting, and there’s a job already lined up for him a a job offer from the enemy, the National Government.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________

So….National in the past have done things Labour / Green now advocate – and Labour have done things in the past that would make Savage very savage indeed. And apparently Labour ironically turned ‘National’ to deal with problems that a very ‘labour’ like National had created. What an interesting political history this little nation has.

And each time each party has sooner or later changed something. Because change is the only true constant ? So – that could still happen for any party ? Even the currently shitarse Labour Party ? Chances are they’ll work it out one day.

I wish to make a formal complaint to the New Zealand Serious Fraud Office (SFO) alleging bribery and corruption against Minister of Foreign Affairs Murray McCully, under s.103 (2) of the Crimes Act 1961:

(PLEASE NOTE – THIS IS A ‘BRIBERY AND CORRUPTION’ COMPLAINT – NOT A ‘SERIOUS AND COMPLEX FRAUD’ COMPLAINT!)

Please also be advised that if the SFO chooses not to prosecute, it is my intention to engage the services of Graham McCready, Prosecutor for Private Prosecution Services Ltd.

(2)Every one is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 7 years who corruptly gives or offers or agrees to give any bribe to any person with intent to influence any member of Parliament in respect of any act or omission by him or her in his or her capacity as a member of Parliament.
________________________________________________________________________________

The ‘offer’ made by Minister of Foreign Affairs Murry McCully, being the job offer of ‘Pacific Economic Ambassador’ to Labour Party MP, Shane Jones.

The ‘intent to influence any member of Parliament in respect of any act’ being to encourage Labour Party MP Shane Jones to leave Parliament as an MP.
________________________________________________________________________________

EVIDENCE (and ‘public interest’) relating to this matter:

Mainstream media coverage of this issue:
……………………….

Shane Jones to leave Labour, set to work with Murray McCully
Tuesday, 22 April 2014, 6:15pm
Source: TV3
Shane Jones is quitting, and there’s a job already lined up for him a a job offer from the enemy, the National Government.
________________________________________________________________________________

………………………………

Shane Jones best pick for new role – McCully
Wednesday, 23 April 2014, 9:15am
Source: TV3
Foreign Affairs Minister Murray McCully denies Shane Jones’ new role was created in order to derail Labour’s election campaign.
__________________________________________________

There are fundamental constitutional issues that will need to be resolved as has been made clear by respected US legal analysts (including Dershowtiz from Harvard).

They will not be resolved when totalitarian Fed Bureaucrats from the “Bureau of Land Management” turn up with 200 + armed deputies (to enforce a civil claim/judgement) and get into a stand off with three times that number of residents and media crews.
Then they found that no one would buy the cattle the Feds sold….. so humiliating back down.

Whether the gangster Harry Reid clan that seems to rule Nevada will try again is quite an issue.

A similar situation has developed in Texas. But the State of Texas has told the feds to bugger off, and that all such land is beyond their jurisdiction.

“I want to tell you one more thing I know about the Negro,” he said. Mr. Bundy recalled driving past a public-housing project in North Las Vegas, “and in front of that government house the door was usually open and the older people and the kids — and there is always at least a half a dozen people sitting on the porch — they didn’t have nothing to do. They didn’t have nothing for their kids to do. They didn’t have nothing for their young girls to do.”
“And because they were basically on government subsidy, so now what do they do?” he asked. “They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never learned how to pick cotton. And I’ve often wondered, are they better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things, or are they better off under government subsidy? They didn’t get no more freedom. They got less freedom.”

“I am deeply concerned about the notion that the Bureau of Land Management believes the federal government has the authority to swoop in and take land that has been owned and cultivated by Texas landowners for generations”

“The BLM’s newly asserted claims to land along the Red River threaten to upset long-settled private property rights and undermine fundamental principles—including the rule of law—that form the foundation of our democracy.”

Liabore can still win.
All they have to do is announce that they will wipe ALL student loans after the election.
Imagine the votes this policy will get them.
Bugger the effects on the country and all those students who have paid off their loans.
Just saying.

Mikey
Sigh, you’re not very bright are you. Ugly is saying that because they have had possession and use of it for so long that some rules apply which could now give them effectively ownership.
For example, in Florida, if you vacate your house, and someone then maintains occupation of it for more than seven years then they can claim ownership.

IIRC the Bundys have been on that land for generations. The dispute really has arisen because the BLM wants the Bundys to de-stock the land of cattle to protect a tortoise.
The BLM started taking their cattle away and when they couldn’t sell them ( no buyer would step forward) they started killing them.

No, they haven’t claimed ownership. Ugly is saying they might be able to claim ownership. Their dispute is that because they are being prevented from using the land as was originally agreed then why should they pay the fees. It’s a civil dispute which the Govt tried to enforce with 200 armed men.
You’re a public servant aren’t you. God help us you’re so dim.

Sean Hannity’s libertarian hero Cliven Bundy graces the world with his views on ‘niggers’ and how their social ills could be remedied with a good ol’ dose of slavery and cotton-pickin’:

Below is what a black Marine has to say about the Clive Bundy comment.

Charlie Delta
The media distorts information to the point of social division. This is a photo of myself and the resilient, often charismatic, and maybe not so tactful Cliven Bundy. He’s a cowboy and a helluva family man, not an orator. One thing he definitely isn’t – a racist. I found his comments to not only be NOT racist, but his own view of his experiences. Who the heck are we to determine another man’s perspective on the world around him?! Just because Picasso’s view of the world was abstract, does it negate the fact that his art was genuine? Furthermore, if you take the time to do your own research, you’ll find that his statements about some black Americans actually hold weight. He posed a hypothetical question. He said, “I wonder IF” … Hell, I’m black and I often wonder about the same about the decline of the black family. Bottom line is that we are all slaves in this waning republic, no matter our skin color. Mr. Bundy could have used any racial demographic as an example: Native Americans on reservations, whites in trailer parks, etc. He noticed the crippling effects of receiving government “assistance” and the long term result of accepting handouts. It’s not progress at all. I challenge Sean Hannity, Rand Paul, and others to read my comment and reconsider their position in this matter. Individual liberties are at stake here, yours and mine. THAT is the issue. Don’t let the liberal media and ignoramuses like Glenn Beck and that weasel Harry Reid make you lose sight of the real issue here: The federal government is a burgeoning behemoth and a bully on a once constitutional playground.I sincerely hope you real patriots out there who can see through the smoke.

One of the supporters serving as a bodyguard for Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy during his standoff with federal authorities — and who also happens to be black — said he would still “take a bullet for” Bundy after the rancher made racially inflammatory comments.

CNN’s Dan Simon noticed Jason Bullock, a six-year Army veteran who serves as one of Bundy’s bodyguards, hanging around the at the Nevada ranch. Simon asked Bullock whether he found Bundy’s remarks about blacks and slavery offensive.

“Mr. Bundy is not a racist,” he told CNN. “Ever since I’ve been here, he’s treated me with nothing but hospitality. He’s pretty much treating me just like his own family.”

“I would take a bullet for that man if need be. I look up to him just like I do my own grandfather,” he added. “I believe in his cause and after having met Mr. Bundy a few times, I have a really good feel about him and I’m a pretty good judge of character.”

ps… The full UNEDITED version of Bundy’s statement, which is actually NOT racist at all.
The media has done a hatchet job on him.

The controversy over Cliven Bundy’s “racist” remarks has taken a new turn after longer unedited footage emerged showing the Nevada cattle rancher making pro-black and pro-Mexican comments that were excised out of media reports.

The full clip illustrates how the original New York Times report edited out statements made by Bundy both before and after his supposedly “racist” remarks, which when taken in their full context actually constitute a pro-minority position. Media Matters also cut out these crucial comments from their YouTube upload of Bundy’s remarks.

Bundy’s full comments are reprinted below, with the parts not printed by the New York Times and other media outlets highlighted in bold.

…” and so what I’ve testified to ya’, I was in the WATTS riot, I seen the beginning fire and I seen the last fire. What I seen is civil disturbance. People are not happy, people is thinking they did not have their freedom; they didn’t have these things, and they didn’t have them.

We’ve progressed quite a bit from that day until now, and sure don’t want to go back; we sure don’t want the colored people to go back to that point; we sure don’t want the Mexican people to go back to that point; and we can make a difference right now by taking care of some of these bureaucracies, and do it in a peaceful way.

Let me tell.. talk to you about the Mexicans, and these are just things I know about the negroes. I want to tell you one more thing I know about the negro.

When I go, went, go to Las Vegas, North Las Vegas; and I would see these little government houses, and in front of that government house the door was usually open and the older people and the kids…. and there was always at least a half a dozen people sitting on the porch. They didn’t have nothing to do. They didn’t have nothing for the kids to do. They didn’t have nothing for the young girls to do.

My editorial position throughout the Ukraine crisis has been that the West would feel it could claim the Russians were the aggressors simply by stating it over and over. After all, they have corporate media at their beck and call on propaganda needs. The Russians on the other hand have consistently played it cool with no threats, and giving the West lots of time to wrap the rope around its neck. Very early in the game, alternative media, which is quickly becoming the new mainstream media, had picked up on whom the good and bad guys were.

Everybody could smell that the US and NATO were trying to bait the Russians coming in early, which would then validate their “invasion” scenario. We see it is Kiev and US doing the invading, and what is worse, doing it right after they had signed a de-escalation agreement.

The West has doubled down with a repeat Maidan scenario. There they brokered a psyops compromise between the Yanukovych government and his opposition, which we know now they fully planned to break. As tensions eased, they unleashed their Right Sector terror proxies with the sniper killings which collapsed the former government. Now, in what can only be called diplomatic treachery, Kerry has stained his legacy by pulling the same tactic in Geneva talks last week.

We learn this morning that Ukraine has deployed, effectively, a division of its top forces. From ITAR-TASS, we learn the order of battle for the 11,000 troops engaged…

The Russians have not been sitting on their behinds, nor would anyone else having a major foreign power operating on its border via a violent coup-government in charge of its military forces. If the situation were reversed, the Russians doing something similar in Canada, the US military would be preparing a list of military options.

Of course this move by Ukraine had the full support of the US. For whatever the reasons, the White house has decided it wants escalation, not de-escalation…

…Obama is literally calling Putin out into the street now… a move that none of us see any justification for other than as part of a planned major Geo-political shift that it wants to trigger with military action. Donetsk region protestors are reporting in local media, “An all-arms operation has been launched in Sloviansk. This means just one thing — a civil war.” A full mobilization has been called for.

Putin has continued his measured response, calling today’s actions a “punitive operation,” moving up to the red line but not over it… yet…

Sadly the alternative media while considered by many to be authoritative in some areas like AGW, isn’t considered quite so authoritative for some reason when it comes to global geopolitics, possibly because the matrix has spent simply ages programming the people just how to think in this area and global geopolitics isn’t quite so obvious as understanding whether or not the sun is shining or snow is falling. Shame really, given that geopolitics has a much more immediate and much more direct import in really understanding what’s going on.

Scott
Why is it when anyone tries to speak the truth about the state negroes or blacks find themselves in today after all the promises made by Obama and his progressive supporters,they are called a ” racist”.
The facts are clear. High unemployment, poor health, high black on black murder rates, low educational outcomes etc etc.None of this even had a dent made in it by the first Obama term and yet 96% of blacks voted for Obama again. Why? Because he was black? So who are the real racists.
The Maori Party recently correctly pointed out that Labour and the Greens have done little really for Maori or Pacifica people despite Labour/ greens taking the so called moral high ground and labelling their opponents as uncaring racists.
Good huh.

Kea- wow , next we will see the scientific climate institutions having their own SWAT teams , oh wait…I liked that clip. Very salient point about how anti gun people are happy for governments to be armed yet not private individuals and how badly it’s worked out in history when the government has too much power.

Have just heard Jack Tane on Newstalk ZB “interview” wine commentator John Hawksby on a specific wine producer’s fairly expensive products ($39 – $49) which scored “highly recommended”. Twice Tane mentioned that he would “put the wines up on our website”.

Nothing wrong with that in general terms. Except that one expects a degree of transparency about the professional independence of sector experts commissioned by media channels for reviews of products falling within their field of claimed expertise.

So Newstalk ZB might like to enlighten its listeners:
a) Is Hawksby paid by the Newstalk ZB organisation for his expert comments on selected wines?
b) If not, is it part of Newstalk ZB’s deal with Hawksby that the radio outlet will feature wines recommended by him on its website?

And Mr Hawksby should also feel free to comment. Is he paid (in cash or in kind) by the wine producer, the radio station, or both? Does he feel that his opinion and professional standing would be enhanced by listeners having a better idea of the commercial arrangements behind his commentary?

For the record, I consider that Mr Hawksby is quite entitled to be remunerated, handsomely, for his commentary and advice on winemaking and specific wines. But we fools out in the general public would be able to judge better the professional merits of his advice against a clearer background of who’s paying whom.

Scott
Why is it when anyone tries to speak the truth about the state negroes or blacks find themselves in today after all the promises made by Obama and his progressive supporters,they are called a ” racist”.

Yep, and a black Republican candidate said the same thing as Bundy nine months ago.

At a Juneteenth event in Newport News, E.W. Jackson, the Republican candidate for lieutenant governor, said slavery did not destroy black families, but government welfare programs launched in the 1960s caused them to deteriorate.

Speaking before a small crowd Wednesday at King-Lincoln Park, not too far from where the first African slaves entered the Colonies, Jackson referred to his great-grandparents, who were slaves and sharecroppers in Orange County.

“I am a direct descendent of slaves. My grandfather was born there to a father and a mother who had been slaves. And by the way, their family was more intact than the black family is today,” Jackson said.

“I’m telling you that slavery did not destroy the black family, even though it certainly was an attack on the black family. It made it difficult,” he said.

[…]

Jackson claims that new welfare programs created in the 1960s caused the deterioration of black families.

“The program that began to tell women, ‘You don’t need a man in the home, the government will take care of you,’ (and) that began to tell men, ‘You don’t need to be in the home, the government will take care of this woman and will take care of these children,’ ” he said.

“In 1960, most black children were raised in two-parent, monogamous families,” Jackson said. “By now, by this time, we only have 20 percent of black children being raised in two-parent, monogamous families with a married man and woman raising those children. It wasn’t slavery that did that, it was government that did that, trying to solve problems that only God can solve, and that only we as human beings can solve,” he said.

Putin needs to remember to take his meds. ! The ex KGB Lt Colonel and aspiring Dictator ( if he’s not one already ) claims the internet is a CIA plot and wants to start up his own Kremlin based and controlled one.

Am sorry I didn’t include your’s in the list along with Reid, UT and coy but it’s good to see it has got you also “clucking”
Pray tell me w,hen do you anticipate the ‘ religious supremacist state of Israel” proposes to destroy the Theocratic Dictatorship of Iran.”
Timeline please.?
We can take it Putin’s proposal for his own controlled Internet gets you full stamp of approval.?
Yes.?
PS Is it true that in your absence from KB you’ve negotiated a direct hotline to Putin and the Kremlin via Telepathy. ?

And what does someone like Rand Paul, The Tea Party or you propose to do with the Ukraine crises.?
D Day styled invasion of the beaches of Crimean holiday resorts or ,far easier ,press the Nuclear button.?

Yes, they have leased the land for generations and then decided to stop paying the grazing fees.

Too funny.

His cattle, until recently, roamed freely on land managed by the federal Bureau of Land Management. Before the roundup that sparked protests, confrontations and gunmen taking a bridge, Bundy explained his “ancestral rights” to the I-Team.

“I’ve lived my lifetime here. My forefathers have been up and down the Virgin Valley here ever since 1877. All these rights that I claim, have been created through pre-emptive rights and beneficial use of the forage and the water and the access and range improvements,” Bundy said.

Clark County property records show Cliven Bundy’s parents bought the 160 acre ranch in 1948 from Raoul and Ruth Leavitt.

Water rights were transferred too, but only to the ranch, not the federally managed land surrounding it. Court records show Bundy family cattle didn’t start grazing on that land until 1954.

The Bureau of Land Management was created 1946, the same year Cliven was born

stephie, a republican wouldn’t have let it get that far. To take away the standing and moral threat of the U.S and to go around apologizing. To use “being nice” as a foreign strategy. No one is scared of the US threat anymore. Not Iran, not Russia – in fact, Obama is still giving Russia access to U.S weapons and training.

Oh, and the latest, the White House knowingly let arms into the Middle East, into the arms of its enemies.

After a seven-month study of the events surrounding 2012′s Benghazi attack, the Citizens Commission on Benghazi determined that it could have been prevented if the United States hadn’t allowed $500 million in weapons to be transported to Al Qaeda militants in Libya a year earlier.

‘The United States switched sides in the war on terror with what we did in Libya, knowingly facilitating the provision of weapons to known al-Qaeda militias and figures,’ Clare Lopez, a member of the commission and a former CIA officer, told MailOnline.
*
She blamed the Obama administration for failing to stop half of a $1 billion United Arab Emirates arms shipment from reaching al-Qaeda-linked militants.
*
‘Remember, these weapons that came into Benghazi were permitted to enter by our armed forces who were blockading the approaches from air and sea,’ Lopez claimed. ‘They were permitted to come in. … [They] knew these weapons were coming in, and that was allowed..

The report stated that top officials, including those from the White House and Congress, knowingly and deliberately allowed the weapons, which were originally intended for Libyan dictator Muammar Gaddafi, to be delivered to al Qaeda militants in Libya in an attempt to overthrow Gaddafi.
The report’s sources, including Retired Admiral Chuck Kubic, said that Gaddafi was actually willing to negotiate stepping down peacefully, but that the White House refused to let the Pentagon negotiate with Gaddafi.
Had the Obama administration done so and blocked the weapons from entering al Qaeda’s hands, the attack on Benghazi may never have happened, and countless lives would have been spared.
So, what difference does it make? In my opinion, quite a bit.

A touching item caught my eye last night. Seven sharp ran some excellent items commemorating Anzac Day..Included was the one below about a more recently fallen soldier Corporal Like Tamatea killed in action Afghanistan’ His mother Lynne O’Brien tells us about his son and the what he stood for- Courage , Strength, a strong belief in freedom and choices.

stephieboy, I guess it is just a fluke that every single country unsympathetic to Israel is under attack by the US ? Yeah Right !

I suppose you are one of those who think AIPAC is a conspiracy theory, even though its influence on American foreign policy is well known and is in no way hidden? No one gets to the reigns of power in the US without the nod of the Jewish lobby.

I will say this however: Most Jews do NOT agree with these wars. When ordinary Jewish folk are polled they frequently have views that differ markedly from those promoted by AIPAC and other lobby groups. It is much the same story in Israel.

I do not expect you will change your position and will continue to parrot propaganda from the US. All I ask is that you stop pretending this is an informed view you arrived at after consideration of the facts.

“And what does someone like Rand Paul, The Tea Party or you propose to do with the Ukraine crises.?”

How about nothing ?

It is none of their business. There is far worse going on in the world that is being totally ignored.

“PS Is it true that in your absence from KB you’ve negotiated a direct hotline to Putin and the Kremlin via Telepathy. ?”

No but I speak daily with a Russian who lives in the Region. Also frequently with a person in Tehran and a Jew living in South America. Amazing how these ordinary folk have so much more common sense than you.

In today’s ODT there’s a review of a new book out by Prof Jackson…..basically terrorists are terrorists because evil white westerners turn them into terrorists. It’s all my fault.Unfortunately It’s not on the net,but this is……..

Katie, Unfortunately the internet has exposed people like you for what you are. Your type no longer control the information we receive. We have a choice of propaganda now from all sides. We also have people who are free to express genuine opinion.

Kea, old sunshine.you’ve consistently attempted to overstate the influence of AIPAC as the link below irrefutably proves. With President Obama Israel and AIPAC has not got what all it wants from the U S over e.g. sanctions and Iran etc.
Stop dreaming up and fantasying about this and other related International Jewish / Israeli conspiracies to control the world.
Focus instead on your beloved Theocracy Iran and Dictatorship Syria. Or how about Hokam Haram In Nigeria for something fresh.

BTW since you were booted off KB you’d have had time to draw up a time line for the imminent Israel -US invasion and occupation of Syria.
Progress to date.?
I take it your alleged friends in Russia etc have assisted you with the time line and believe in the International Israel / Jewish Conspiracy .? Or do they share you paranoid delusions ?

“Are you appalled that billions of US tax dollars are spent funding radical Muslim extremists in order to destablise those countries unsympathetic to Israel ? Are you “appalled” that the US does not care for its poor and sick but borrows trillions to pay terrorists and spread war ?”

I’m appalled that anyone is stupid enough to make these statements and then expect to be taken seriously.

I’m going to go out on a limb and guess that “Kea” has never lived in the US, and gets all her/his info from the internet.

Your 11:31am post is tainted, since it’s the opinion of a writer whom Iranian TV consider worthy to print. Even then, the opinion itself is worthless given Russia’s actions of the past few months – it’s very hard to do a hatchet job on a country that is just so blatantly aggressive, that there’s very little that could be done to make what they are doing worse.

I mean, seriously, the take over of government buildings in Eastern Ukraine by men who are just so clearly military (check out the short back and sides), and the threats from Russia that if these men are harmed by Ukrainian authorities (who have every right to call them terrorists and remove them by force), that Russia will consider that a pretext for invasion. Fantastic.

You know those snipers that killed the protestors on the Maidan were Russian trained and ordered by the previous President to fire, and that there are documents in his abandoned Presidential Palace that indicate he had been in direct communication with Putin over it? No wonder Putin is working so hard to destabilise Ukraine, because when it all comes out clearly as to what he’s been doing in recent months, all the propaganda in the world isn’t going to be able to keep making him and Russia look like victims. All his new-found tinfoil hat friends, except for the most loopy, will abandon the cause of his defense.

Fletch , you’ve got to stop posting propaganda and lies about the alleged Benghazi Conspiracy and cover up . The bogus findings of the the so called commission on Benghazi are exposed here with Fox News getting egg on its face ,admitting it and the ” commission ‘ got it all wrong,

Reid, Your 11:31am post is tainted, since it’s the opinion of a writer whom Iranian TV consider worthy to print.

Lucia:

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-
witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the
simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if
he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of
doubt, what is laid before him.”

― Leo Tolstoy

Once you unplug yourself from the matrix then you recognise that what you think has been happening in the world for many years even centuries have been complete lies, but you’ve got to unplug yourself first and that takes a willingness on your part to adopt an attitude different to what Tolstoy refers to in the latter part of his comment. Andrei has done so on Russia, not sure about other things but he’s done it on Russia. I wonder what the answer would be if you were to ask yourself genuinely and I mean really genuinely, whether you really are truly willing to entertain the possibility that Andrei and I and others are right about Russia, or whether you’ve already decided what the answer is.

Translation: “Lucia, you have provided facts and reasonable arguments, but I don’t care about those, because I have Gnostic powers of discernment to know the real truth, and no amount of facts and reason will sway me.”

Mean while in Gods special favourite place his chosen ones show those intolerant Muslims how its done, as reported in a leading Israeli news service…

Woman in Beit Shemesh attacked by ultra-Orthodox extremists

In latest incident sparked by ‘immodest dress,’ crowd of ultra-Orthodox men smash car of Natali Mashiah, 27, who says she believes they were going to set her on fire.

A woman was attacked in her car in Beit Shemesh Tuesday by ultra-Orthodox extremists – the latest in a series of incidents apparently sparked by what members of the town’s Haredi community view as immodest dress.

Name the Poison … Pat Condell has it spot on again how Islam denigrates,abuses and strips them of their basic rights such is the logical consequences of the implementation of Sharia Law whether mild, warm or red hot in its variants . The bottom line is that Women in these and other Islamic courts simply do not have any rights.
Yes ,kea there are extremist Orthodox groups in Israel and elsewhere But Israel does not operate Sharia Courts and strip women of their fundamental rights as in Iran, Saudi Arabia, the Sudan, Bokum Harum, the Taliban etc,

‘There are many reasons why the religion of Islam impoverishes western society, but the main one, in my opinion, is that it degrades and debases women, except, of course, for left-wing women, who happily degrade and debase themselves defending Islam, like turkeys defending Christmas. A woman in Islam needs to be covered from head to toe because men are not expected to exhibit any kind of basic self-control. I get a lot of correspondence from angry Muslim males and I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve been told that western women are asking to be raped because of the way they dress. No other religion teaches people to think like this. Recently here in Britain, we’ve had a rash of Muslim gangs pimping and raping young girls in northern England. I do mean Muslim gangs, and not Asians, as the media keep reporting. There are no Sikhs or Hindus involved in this, and to call them Asians to avoid naming the real problem is a slander on Hindus and Sikhs. These men do it because they regard non-Muslim women as subhuman trash. And this poison is coming directly from their religion, a religion whose values are dictated and imposed by some of the most narrow-minded, psychotic human beings on this planet. And, coming as I do from an Irish Catholic background, believe me, that’s saying something…..”

You know, I think I’ve figured out why you like the tainted sources. You can’t trust them, but then neither do you trust your own views, so you’re hedging your bets. That Gnosticism of yours has influenced even how you talk to people (ie me) mixing truth with untruth. You don’t think I’m slow-witted, yet you give me a quote that half applies to me and half doesn’t. That’s just really screwed up.

Well, at the risk of providing some objectivity. I think the US does care about the sick and poor in a caring sort of way, but they don’t seem to care enough to put progressive ideology aside to create a system where their sick and poor are actually cared for.
The Affordable Healthcare Act aka a nationalised health system just isn’t working. There are millions and millions without cover and without Drs. It is a disaster but Obama and the Dems won’t back down and admit it.
It’s like some of the clear evidence Fletch has provided whereby welfare dependency has made life so much worse for blacks. Shit, 20% only of families are couples! All those single parent children heading for failure.
They might care alright but they are killing them with their “kindness”. If they truly cared they would put politics aside and implement pragmatic solutions which work. The internal political war in the US combined with over reach by the government, the continued financial failure and decline of the middle class is killing the country.

All_on_Red, I did not go into detail as it was not my central point. They have a fine medical system for those who can afford it. My point is that there is a lot of social deprivation in the US, yet they spend trillions to please Israel. The nonsense – war on terror- is nothing more than a Jewish crusade with the US as its proxy.

Kea
I realise that. I try to see the balance. There are bad things about Israel and good. I probably lean towards being a supporter of Israel mainly because I see more evil in the way Islam is used for evil purpose.
There is hypocrisy in every government and country. It’s sad, but it’s the way it is.
We are very lucky here in NZ that we have someone like Key who I think tries to steer a course which will effect good for NZ ers. He has to maintain power to do that so that means compromise.
But he’s pragmatic and because of that we are slowly making gains.
Too many governments are now infested with so called elite politicians, many trying to promote dynasty ( cough Hillary and Jeb Bush and even in the UK- Putin too the way he keeps changing jobs)
Government servants are also too closely tied to politicians. Look at Holder, look at the State Dept, heck look at the way in the UK politicians have been captured by public servants pushing renewables. Which often suits the politicians because they also have financial interest in renewable manufacturers.
It’s going to end fucking badly if a clean out doesn’t occur.
Meanwhile the middle class can’t get jobs, their kids have educations which are either useless or they can’t use, the rich get richer because they have the cash to buy asserts and the assets are going up because of inflation and the middle class slide back to being poor.

Ngai Tahu greed appears to know no bounds and there is no sign that the flow of cash from taxpayers to the tribe is likely to end. Part two of this three-part series shows that the wealthy South Island tribe has been receiving settlements for 146 years.

17/10/2013 – New Zealand must significantly increase its efforts to detect, investigate and prosecute foreign bribery.
Since joining the Convention over 12 years ago, New Zealand has not prosecuted any cases of foreign bribery and only four allegations have surfaced to date.

Outdated perceptions that New Zealand individuals and companies do not bribe may have also undermined detection efforts.

The OECD Working Group on Bribery has just completed its report on New Zealand’s implementation of the Convention of Combating Bribery of Foreign Public Officials in International Business Transactions and related instruments. Recommendations made by the Group to improve New Zealand’s fight against foreign bribery, include:

Broadening the possibilities for holding companies liable for foreign bribery and ensuring they face significant sanctions for this crime;
Addressing gaps in the Crimes Act regarding the foreign bribery offence;
Strengthening New Zealand’s capacity to detect, investigate and prosecute foreign bribery through law enforcement training;
Raising greater awareness of the risks of foreign bribery and of channels for reporting allegations to law enforcement; and
Ensuring the non-tax deductibility of all bribe payments, including those paid through intermediaries.

The report also highlighted positive aspects of New Zealand’s efforts to fight foreign bribery. New Zealand has broadened the range of confiscation tools under its legislation and assets derived from foreign bribery can now be confiscated by the new Police Asset Recovery Unit without waiting for the outcome of criminal proceedings. It has also adopted a comprehensive whistleblower protection law and made efforts to encourage and facilitate whistleblowing. Steps have also been taken to review the framework for mutual legal assistance to ensure requests for information from foreign countries are effectively addressed.

The Working Group on Bribery – made up of the 34 OECD Member countries plus Argentina, Brazil, Bulgaria, Colombia, Latvia, Russia and South Africa – adopted New Zealand’s report in its third phase of monitoring implementation of the OECD Anti-Bribery Convention.

The Report, available here, lists all of the recommendations of the Working Group to New Zealand on pages 45 – 50, and includes an overview of recent enforcement actions and specific legal, policy and institutional features of New Zealand’s framework for fighting foreign bribery. The Working Group invited New Zealand to submit a written report in six months on progress made in establishing the liability of legal persons for foreign bribery and every six months thereafter, if needed. As with other Working Group members, New Zealand will submit a written report to the Working Group within two years on steps it has taken to implement the new recommendations. This report will also be made publicly available.
……”

I suggest a religion were you worship Griff be giving him your money in exchange Griff will guarantee a happy afterlife with harps and naked virgins. all other details requested can be assured by suitable cash payments

Is your simple theism what some people call deism? If not, I’m not sure what “simple theism” is.

I used the term “simple theism” to refer to the belief that a divine creative being exists.
Deism implies the idea of deity, i.e. that a relationship exists between a divine being and mankind or a group of people.

I didn’t introduce the idea of deity because I was looking for a minimalist belief system that would solve the existing problem without introducing a raft of new ones.

Griff
You don’t piss me off. You have a different view than I about Carbon Dioxide going to cause a 4-6 K rise in temperature within 85 years.You have proved there’s no point debating it with you. So I don’t.
I usually ignore you but am feeling sympathetic today. Actually I think we both know there are some things we agree on.

I used the term “simple theism” to refer to the belief that a divine creative being exists.
Deism implies the idea of deity, i.e. that a relationship exists between a divine being and mankind or a group of people.

[A] real “investigative report” … aired last Saturday on NTV, one of Russia’s major television networks. Subtitled “Sex, Psychosis, and Politics,” the 30-minute feature makes .. the .. point … that the displaced energy of sexually frustrated or pathological women was a driving force behind Ukraine’s Euromaidan revolution. In the dramatic words of the 45-second promo: “They like it hard. They are turned on by danger. And woe to anyone who fails to appreciate them.”

Yep, the Russians are being fed propaganda on TV that tells them that sexually frustrated women are being all the problems in the Ukraine.

Reid, Eastern European women are way smarter than Kiwi girls. Especially smarter than those who belong to a cult where sex is portrayed as dirty and sinful, to such an extent they pray to a woman who lied about how she got knocked up.

Well that didn’t appear to work very well Lucia. One thing I’m pretty sure of though. We’re all looking forward to your next post.

They have attracted enormous international condemnation for their conservative Christian stance on homos and other matters.

Yes for some reason they think marriage should remain between a man and a woman. Hence Pussy Riot and the Western MSM decided to learn them courtesy of George Soros for such disastrous philosophies by desecrating Moscow’s Cathedral of Christ the Savior. I think there’s a major Western Church who thinks the same thing, but I may be wrong. Maybe Lucia knows.

Lucy is vocally opposed to that. I like woman too, but was surprised to learn Lucy does also. She always did strike me as a very sexual woman. Often those sort are experimental. I tend to be conservative in my habits.

There was no desecration of the Cathedral by Pussy Riot – it was a prayer to Mary to remove Putin. All done in a regrettable style but then it’s easy for us to judge from here, given that we aren’t ruled by mobsters.

An unfortunate legacy of the Cold War is the negative attitude some American conservatives yet harbor toward Russia. Conditioned for decades to see Russia and the Soviet Union as synonymous, they still view post-communist Russia as a threat. They forget that Tsarist Russia was the most conservative great power, a bastion of Christian monarchy loathed by revolutionaries, Jacobins, and democrats. Joseph de Maistre was not alone among 19th-century conservatives in finding refuge and hope in Russia.,,,

American conservatives should welcome the resurgence of a conservative Russia.

Kea, the Russian commies hated Russian homos, they exploited foreign homos persecuted by the Christian West as spies.

Russians hate homos, they do not need a communist party or a Christian church to do so.

The only Russian leaders to experiment with same sex acts were the daughter of Peter the Great and Catherine the Great, whereas the less than great Rus Putin only has his dwarf boy (his understudy, the only man they could find in Russia that makes Putin look big).

1. There is a Supreme God.
2. This Sovereign Deity ought to be worshipped.
3. The connection of Virtue and Piety … is and always has been held to be the most important part of religious practice.
4. The minds of men have always been filled with horror for their wickedness. Their vices and crimes have been obvious to them. They must be expiated by repentance.
5. There is reward and punishment after this life.

There was no desecration of the Cathedral by Pussy Riot – it was a prayer to Mary to remove Putin.

I can’t be bothered discussing it Lucia because it’s a side issue that I’m not terribly interested in tonight, suffice to say if you really think the video below shows them praying, then I’m glad I’m not a Catholic. I imagine the horrified onlookers weren’t really worshippers, perhaps they’d just bought tickets to the “prayer” and they didn’t think their money had been well spent.

Reid, be patient with Lucy. She is still struggling with her pagan past. I just hope in the name of all that is good and holy she does not start running around naked and lustful when I turn up to mass tomorrow.

I’m not sure Deism is what you think it is –http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism
read the Overview and Features, for example.
Never trust Wikipedia for anything important…
The origins of deism from Lord Edward Herbert of Cherbury:

With just a little more reading, you’ll get a richer picture (but then again, you’ll probably grasp only that which already matches your preconceptions, and that’s the ugly way)

Kea, did you not provide any source for you assertion that the term “common law” comes from the Court of Common Pleas in England because you were t

For the same reason I did not give a source for the meaning of the word “the”.

Court of Common Pleas, English court of law that originated from Henry II’s assignment in 1178 of five members of his council to hear pleas (civil disputes between individuals), as distinguished from litigation to which the crown was a party. This group of councillors did not immediately emerge as a body distinct and separate from the curia regis (“king’s court”). It remained a part of that court and traveled with it until Magna Carta required that civil jurisdiction be assigned to a body convening at a designated place, at which time it settled in Westminster Hall. In 1223 the court began to maintain separate rolls, and in 1272 it acquired a chief justice.

During the later Middle Ages, Common Pleas was the most active though not the highest of the common-law courts; it included within its jurisdiction not only almost all civil litigation but also the supervision of local and manorial courts as well. Its judgments, however, were subject to review by the Court of King’s (Queen’s) Bench.

Beginning in the 15th century, Common Pleas was engaged in competition with the Court of King’s Bench and the Court of Exchequer for common-law business. The result was an accumulation of many complicated and overlapping jurisdictional rules. By the 19th century the multiple form of writs and competing jurisdictions had become unbearable, and the Judicature Act of 1873 brought about a replacement of the three common-law courts, as well as the assumption of equity jurisdiction, by the Supreme Court of Judicature, which remains today as the court of general jurisdiction in England and Wales.

Their chief saint is the head of the KGB
He leads a convoy of protestors to jail
So as not to insult the Holiest One
Woman should bear children and love
Shit, shit, the Lord’s shit!
Shit, shit, the Lord’s shit!

The “golden epaulettes” call to mind KGB officers and military dress uniforms, and the juxtaposition with “black frock” is no accident. With the collapse of the Soviet Union, many Russian Orthodox priests were denounced as having collaborated with country’s most feared spy agency. In fact, the current Patriarch Kirill I stands accused by journalists, the Helsinki Group (a prominent Russian human rights organization), and, of course, Pussy Riot, of working with the KGB. (In her court statement, now free band member Yekaterina Samutsevich referred to him as Putin’s “former colleague.”) The group chose the cathedral as their locus of protest because, again according to Samutsevich, it had been “used openly as a flashy backdrop for the politics of the security forces.”

…

A second self-explanatory choral refrain then follows:

Virgin birth-giver of God, become a feminist!
Become a feminist, become a feminist!

Which segues back into lines about politics and corruption:

The Church praises rotten leaders
The march of the cross consists of black limousines
A preacher is on his way to your school
Go to class and give him money!

Patriarch Kirill has moved the Church ever closer to the Kremlin and, ahead of presidential elections last March, openly called on Russians to vote for Putin. The “march of the cross” refers to the ceremony (krestnyi khod, in Russian), enacted during Easter celebrations, in which parishioners form processions and carry crosses from local churches around town. Intended as a sincere expression of faith, the march has been corrupted, Pussy Riot implies, both by the Church’s proximity to political power and by the Yeltsin-era privilege it once enjoyed (by presidential decree) to import luxury cars (as well as tobacco) duty-free. Hence the reference to “black limousines.”

Patriarch Gundyay believes in Putin
Would be better, the bastard, if he believed in God!
The Virgin’s belt won’t replace political gatherings
The eternal Virgin Mary is with us in our protests!

Patriarch Kirill’s secular surname is Gundyayev. The Patriarch called Putin “a miracle from God” in his endorsement, thus making clear his faith in him. The Russian word used for my “bastard” was suka (bitch), which can’t apply to a male subject, so I’ve made the corresponding change. The “Virgin’s belt” seems to refer to the holy relic, the “Belt of the Blessed Birthgiver of God” brought from Mount Athos in Greece to the Cathedral some months before Pussy Riot’s performance there. Thousands lined up in fierce cold to pay it homage, many in the hope that the sash purportedly worn by the Virgin while she was carrying Jesus might cure their ailments. Pussy Riot was, thus, saying “Don’t look to God for help, you’ve got to get out on the streets and demand change!” The import of the next line is clear: The Virgin Mary, who is purported to stand with the downtrodden (and not, presumably, with institutions allied with authoritarian regimes), must, in Pussy Riot’s view, support them in their fight for justice.

Where’s the desecration exactly, now that the context has been broadened from what your links give? And how can there be any desecration if you don’t believe in religion, thinking it to be man-made?

As distinguished from the Roman law, the modern civil law, the canon law, and other systems, the common law is that body of law and juristic theory which was originated, developed, and formulated and is administered in England, and has obtained among most of the states and peoples of Anglo-Saxon stock. Lux v. Haggin, 69 Cal. 255, 10 Pac. 674. 2. As distinguished from law created by the enactment of legislatures, the common COMMON LAW 227 COMMON PLEAS law comprises the body of those principles and rules of action

Law Dictionary: What is COMMON LAW? definition of COMMON LAW (Black’s Law Dictionary)

Kea, did you not provide any source for you assertion that the term “common law” comes from the Court of Common Pleas in England because you were talking out of your arse at the time?

Lucy
It seems that the extent of your argument is because of religious grounds America Good, Russia Bad.
Stunning.
Did it occur to you that many think that both are evil corporate government controlling media bias driven liars whose politicians cheat and lie for personal advancement?

Kea’s version: “As distinguished from law created by the enactment of legislatures, the common COMMON LAW 227 COMMON PLEAS law comprises the body of those principles and rules of action”

The actual text: “As distinguished from law created by the enactment of legislatures, the common law comprises the body of those principles and rules of action, relating to the government and security of persons and property, which derive their authority solely from usages and customs of immemorial antiquity, or from the judgments and decrees of the courts recognizing, affirming, and enforcing such usages and customs”

Are there some inconvenient facts abut the common law that you would rather ignore, Kea?

The departure of prominent Labour MP Shane Jones this week confirms that a Labour-Greens coalition stands for no growth and fewer jobs, Economic Development Minister Steven Joyce says.

Speaking at the National Party’s Lower North Island Regional Conference in Masterton this morning, Mr Joyce says Jones’ departure speaks volumes about the Labour-Greens policy prescription for New Zealand.

“Shane Jones has obviously realised that it is better to leave politics altogether than to stay for his best case scenario of being the Economic Development Minister in a government opposed to economic development. His comments this week have made that clear,” Mr Joyce says.

Mr Joyce says Jones’ decision is backed up by the number of anti-growth positions taken by the Greens, and by large elements of the Labour Party.

Where’s the desecration exactly, now that the context has been broadened from what your links give?

So let’s get this perfectly straight.

You deny you’re in the matrix.

I give you a matrix operation and you don’t get it. (If you hallucinate it was just something that accidently happened, then how pray tell do you explain the instant global media pickup and ongoing coverage from what was a 1.5 minute event in an obscure church during daytime visiting hours which has now generated itself into a cause celebre? (I mean if this really happened in the real world then why don’t you get some sluts to make a similar video in St Mathews church in Akld, and see what happens? Think it’ll flash round the world?) Get a clue. Learn how these things work. Otherwise you’re a child in the playground. Sometimes it’s a matrix operation and sometimes it’s not, but if you don’t even know how they work, as you clearly don’t, then how the heck are you ever going to discern the difference?

And how can there be any desecration if you don’t believe in religion, thinking it to be man-made?

I don’t think religion is man-made Lucia and I never have. I’m not a Gnostic, that’s an accusation from an arrogant man with a theology degree who can’t understand how anyone can criticise the govt of Israel and yet still love Jews. That’s his problem but because he’s arrogant and has a theology degree he intellectualises an explanation to himself because he can’t hold two opposing concepts in his head at the same time and still continue to function.

But being unwilling to admit that to himself because he’s arrogant he then proceeds to do a most un-Christian thing in that without even knowing me and never having met me he then broadcasts his false conclusion reached through his own arrogance (just like pharisees did) which is bad enough but then some people like you who also don’t know me and have never met me pick it up.

Did you lookup those biblical references I gave the other day BTW? If you did, you’ll see my position equates to Jesus’ position. Same people Lucia, different time. Like I said, get a clue.

Yeah, so people have different opinions about what deism is.
What is your point?

My original question, of course. What distinguishes your “simple theism” from what’s normally accepted as deism? I’m curious, is all. To me it looks a little as if you are trying to reinvent the wheel, in a manner of speaking.

“who can’t understand how anyone can criticise the govt of Israel and yet still love Jews.”

You don’t merely criticise the Israeli govt, you condemn it’s very existence, and you condemn all Jews who are Zionists, which is the vast majority, to being “Satanic Thugs”. You only “love” a tiny number of Jews who suit your anti-Jewish and anti-Zionist ideology.

“That’s his problem but because he’s arrogant and has a theology degree he intellectualises an explanation to himself”

You mean I use reason and genuine Christian theology to expose your Gnosticism and Jew hatred. I’m sure you think that arrogant, but the arrogance is all yours in perverting the Faith and the Bible to publicly promote your hatred of Israel and most Jews.

My original question, of course. What distinguishes your “simple theism” from what’s normally accepted as deism?

Deism represent a more complex set of ideas, and some of the ideas about deism are contradictory.

I’m curious, is all. To me it looks a little as if you are trying to reinvent the wheel, in a manner of speaking.

All I’m doing is describing a minimalist set of beliefs necessary to remedy the corruption of the state. Simple theism fits the bill, and the recognition of the natural rights or life and liberty follow as logical developments of this idea.

Deism may or may not reject sacred texts and prophetic revelation in favour of a purely rational description of the nature of the relationship between man and deity. Simple theism says nothing about prophetic revelation.

Deism may or may not reject sacred texts and prophetic revelation in favour of a purely rational description of the nature of the relationship between man and deity. Simple theism says nothing about prophetic revelation.

My understanding is that most deists reject sacred texts. So, is “simple theism” that sort of deism? Or does “simple theism” leave the door open to prophetic revelation. If the latter, isn’t “simple theism” more complicated than what most deists believe. Sorry, I’m still finding “simple theism” a somewhat elusive concept.