Another year is coming to an end. Thanks to everyone who has been sticking with Gundamn! since 2007. We're starting 2010 with a cleanslate and will be making some changes to keep things fresh. One of those things is themed episodes. An overarching theme will be discussed in two different topics. For this first theme, we'd like to include some listener comments in our discussion.

Theme: Things American mecha fans will have to accept whether they like it or not.

Topic 1: Gundam will never be as popular again in America as it once was.

Topic 2: Harmony Gold will maintain an iron grip on Robotech, and no one else is ever going to release any Macross.

Some might think these statements controversial, which is kind of the point. The idea behind this episode is to discuss things people aren't comfortable with. What I want here is well thought out comments both for and against these topics.

What I do NOT want is a conversation here like other threads. This is not a discussion; it's a drop box for your comments. Don't reply to other people's comments, just post what you have to say and it might be mentioned during the show.

Also, it goes without saying to keep comments civil.

"What did catch my eye, however, was a podcast named Gundamn!. At first I thought it was a podcast about firearms and [rednecks] discussing their collection, but after looking at the episode titles I was sold." - Xhavalor

Chris wrote:Topic 1: Gundam will never be as popular again in America as it once was.

That's okay. There are less idiots to deal with. What's left is jerks, stubborn people, and highly opinionated people. And that's alright, too, 'cause those jerks are my friends (right, MechaTalk?) =p I don't know why I haven't met another person who's a science major because of Gundam. (Plenty of Star Trek people though, and they kinda give me the willies.) D:

I suppose a lot of people are upset because availability of the material is limited for us, and nearly all of the interesting stuff goes untranslated or is out of reach. I wouldn't mind taking up model kit building again. One thing that has really stuck with me was one time when I was younger, I was at a Toys'R'Us and this middle-aged mother was standing there in front of the model kits with me. She had a Deathscythe in her hand, wondering what to get her son. I loled.

Personally, I am not all that upset that Gundam is not extremely popular. At least I have some level of access to it, and I'm able to share it with people close to me. I think I feel this way because I don't have as much free time anymore. If I was bored, I'd definitely try to watch all the Gundam I can, and post more of my weird ideas here. (I finally figured out how planet defensors stop bullets. Lenz' Law, woot.)

Chris wrote:Topic 2: Harmony Gold will maintain an iron grip on Robotech, and no one else is ever going to release any Macross.

I'll admit I'm very uneducated on this topic. I've seen a Macross box set when I was at Best Buy, so what's with that?? Chris, I highly recommend a thorough "educational section" that explains the odds and ends before you fellows begin discussing the topic. I suppose this is one of the cases where we should be slightly upset because our access to the material is almost completely cut off. We'd like to spend money, but we can't, right?

I hope that's not all too much. Feel free to omit me from the conversation. o_o;

"Red particles are bad, they mutate you into... dead? But green/blue particles are good, apparently, for reasons and for purposes yet to be determined. Isn't science sometimes nicely color-coded?"
-AntaresGW: The Sword . Sera's Art . Gameplay . The Lost Citadel

1.Well that is unfortunately true for now it's not going to be the same as the Wing days, however on the flip side from Australia 08th MS Team and 0083 were recently released in Australia as the first UC testing series releases and apparently in Madman's recent podcast episode 0083 was selling quite well.
So I think it might be interesting in time to maybe see in 20 years if it remains the same or grows further for the fanbase/fans.
Especially as more newer anime fans come around and see it and get potentially interested.

2.After Shadow Chronicles I wonder about that and am surprised Harmony Gold still keep trying to go on with Robotech, I saw the trailer for Shadow Chronicles and the CG looks bad(like worse then Voltron the 3rd Dimension)
I mean the Macross part of Robotech was good, but the Masters was dodgy and New Generation was alright.

On the other hand if they want to get Macross over one day they need to sort stuff out better with some of the licensing related things.
(You would think Bandai would try to sort something out)

1.) It really doesn't matter that Gundam isn't as popular over here. That fact certainly doesn't invalidate my fondness for the franchise. There are plenty of DVDs that can still be purchased, and for model kits they're readily available from sites such as Hobby Link Japan, and even if the instructions aren't in english, you can still build them. The only added inconvenience is that you need to pay shipping and wait two weeks for it to come in the mail.

2.) Not that big on Macross, so I can't say I really care about this issue. But even if Harmony Gold blocks other Macross from coming state-side, well... There's always the internet. I know promoting fansubs is bad, but when the show isn't available officially in english, what else can you do? There's always the option of importing the japanese DVDs, thus giving money to the creators, but then keeping fansubs for the translations. Otherwise all you can do is wait for Harmony Gold to go under and free up the franchise. But by then the show will be so old no one will bring it over anyways. The business world is such an unforgiving place.

"In the end, the world doesn't really need a Superman... Just a brave one."

Topic 1: Gundam will never be as popular again in America as it once was.

I believe that this statement can reflect upon anime as a whole. The youths of yesterday (me) who grew up watching Gundam on Cartoon Network are probably going to be the last major breakthrough of Gundam into North America for the foreseeable future. The youths of today are more into Hannah Montanna/Miley Cyrus, "hip-hop" (parenthesis added to note that it is not the real hip-hop, but rather an adulterated form made with youths in mind), and whatever else the big corporations throw at them.

The western youth culture has and probably always will be extremely focused on growing up. Every kid wants to be older so they can partake in the freedom they perceive to come with adulthood. That being said, the people who make shows and music will always find it to their advantage to create something that makes the kids feel grown up, whether it be Miley Cyrus with her suggestive dressing, "hip-hop" with its racy lyrics, or even drugs and alcohol with its forbidden fruit attraction.

Now that 4kids and other localization companies have established Gundam (and anime as a whole) as a kids genre, the kids that they were aiming at are not going to bite. Pokemon, Yu-gi-oh, and even Cartoon Network as a whole are nowhere near as popular as when I was a kid because the kids these days want stuff they perceive as more "grown-up" and "mature." Until the culture of America shifts dramatically or a big corporation manages to localize Gundam (or any anime) and do it well, we probably won't see Gundam (or anime) surge in popularity like it did with Wing. Chances are, neither are not going to happen.

vindKtiv wrote:
Now that 4kids and other localization companies have established Gundam (and anime as a whole) as a kids genre, the kids that they were aiming at are not going to bite. Pokemon, Yu-gi-oh, and even Cartoon Network as a whole are nowhere near as popular as when I was a kid because the kids these days want stuff they perceive as more "grown-up" and "mature." Until the culture of America shifts dramatically or a big corporation manages to localize Gundam (or any anime) and do it well, we probably won't see Gundam (or anime) surge in popularity like it did with Wing. Chances are, neither are not going to happen.

My opinion is the same as destiny Gundam's, I could not care less about how western Culture or my generation views Anime or Gundam, since it does not impact my own opinion. So as long as they have DVD's in stock on Amazon and Imports from Bonanzle, I'll be alright.

Chris wrote:Topic 1: Gundam will never be as popular again in America as it once was.

As much as I wish the opposite were true, I have to completely agree that it will most likely never be as popular as it was back in the day. The only problem I have as a fan with Gundam not being popular is possibly a larger lack of Gundam being brought over to the States. Bandai has done a good job to release every new show that has come out since SEED excluding Stargazer and the Astray OVA's, but they haven't brought over "all of Gundam" as they said they once would at some point in time. If the lack of popularity continues I don't want to see an ending to Legal Gundam DVD's in the States all together since that would pretty much be the final nail in the coffin for the franchise here.

As for it becoming popular again it will probably never happen since anime had its time with Cartoon Network and things like Toonami and Adult Swim. With the loss of Toonami and AS pretty much hating Anime I doubt that Anime shows will ever reach the populaity they once did except for maybe things that follow the pokemon formula of things that Cartoon Network still plays like Yu-gi-Oh.

Chris wrote:Topic 2: Harmony Gold will maintain an iron grip on Robotech, and no one else is ever going to release any Macross.

I don't know much about the whole licensing thing with Macross. Like Seraphic mentioned I saw Macross for sale a few months ago so I don't understand why it would be so difficult to bring it over here. Of course I'd love to see all of it come over to the states since it would do pretty well. I often see Macross Frontier cosplay at conventions more so than anything Gundam.

Topic 1: Gundam will never be as popular again in America as it once was.

Partly because Bandai Japan doesn't know how to market in a world where they don't have giant robot statues, and partly because (for better or worse), there hasn't been really anything "Wing-like" to jump into. Too much time has passed, and nostalgia has overtaken what remaining generation of the Toonami-era to push off on most other Gundams. I've personally seen people writing off 00 for being too "preachy" when Wing couldn't decide another word for pacifism. Or Endless Watz's "never use mobile suits again" ending.

I also blame Cartoon Network for their erratic decisions on Gundam in general. Why jump from Wing to 0079, a show almost 20 years older, then randomly show Char's Counterattack? They had no plan beyond Wing, and desperately coupled Wing with whatever else Gundam there is to plug a sinking boat.

Topic 2: Harmony Gold will maintain an iron grip on Robotech, and no one else is ever going to release any Macross.

Oh, nowadays I don't really blame Harmony Gold as much. Even if a miracle happened and the license could be brought over, Fire Bomber alone would make it nearly impossible to make any profit off of it. Actually, the music of Macross is more expensive than your average show in general. That's how companies like 4kids and early FUNimation made such a profit back then, as its cheaper to use homemade tunes than buying out the original soundtrack. (Or in 4kid's case, fund their mad photoshop skill0rz) The japanese anime industry is such a mess in general to deal with, and considering the only possible American outlet would probably be Bandai America, it's a doomed prospect anyway.

Chris wrote:Topic 1: Gundam will never be as popular again in America as it once was.

Agreed, unless a very unlikely set of circumstances conspire to give some future show an extremely lucky break in a good time slot without excessive edits, but even then it's far more likely we'll just get a Gundam series that's more popular than average, not quite something on the scale of what Wing was back in the day. That's almost certainly not going to happen.

Gundam has been mishandled by Bandai's top executives, everyone knows that by now, but as long as the more recent series keep being profitable in Japan and remain appealing enough to foreign audiences, there will still be something of a cult following in the U.S.

Having said that, Bandai Entertainment's decision to release the DVDs for 00 S2 in four sets as opposed to three or less isn't exactly going to help matters in the near future. TV, not DVD, is usually the biggest factor as far as creating mainstream anime popularity is concerned, but every little bit helps...or hinders, as the case might be. If you give people a reason to not buy something, they'll always fall for it. Sad but true.

I know this isn't really the fault of the U.S. branch alone, it's surely a decision made back in Japan, perhaps in a desperate attempt to make more money in the short term even if it has somewhat negative medium and long term repercussions. Nobody expects Bandai to be Funimation, their respective circumstances are very different, but such a release strategy isn't going to be particularly appealing when the competition usually offers better alternatives. And I'm not even going to comment on what would happen with dub-only BDs, if Bandai's Kurokami release is ever used as an example. Hopefully it isn't and those fears turn out to be entirely unnecessary.

Topic 2: Harmony Gold will maintain an iron grip on Robotech, and no one else is ever going to release any Macross.

Short of Harmony Gold suddenly deciding to license Macross Frontier themselves and market it as some sort of alternate Robotech universe, which might sound like the worst idea ever but could in fact be a blessing in disguise if the stars are in alignment, that fate is entirely possible. And hey, at least that crazy idea would be better than Shadow Chronicles...or even, who knows, more profitable. Too bad it's too unlikely.

While I'm not a lawyer nor do I know any who would have the relevant expertise, depending on how things have been sorted out in Japan there may be a legal loophole or two that could be exploited if all the parties involved actually attempted to bring the latest Macross productions to America. Are they just intimidated by all the red tape (read: who gets how much money) they'd have to deal with on both sides of the ocean? Then again, maybe this has already been unsuccessfully tried before, though I have no way to find out.

All that speculation and wishful thinking aside, few things last forever in this world but many do last a lifetime. I'm prepared to deal with the current situation. I've been entirely willing to support any legal Macross releases -past, present or future- but the fact is I have to resort to alternative means of acquisition when there's no other options left. Right now we're all better off not worrying about what may or may not happen.

Topic 1: Gundam will never be as popular again in America as it once was.

1. I am in agreement with Chris, as it stands Gundam is something that is not going to be a big thing here in the states. As it is anime just cannot be taken seriously in the US because its animated, everyone grew up Disney cartoons and it’s in their minds that something animated cannot be more than a show for kids, even with US shows like Batman: The Animated Series that was a more serious cartoon show, it was seen mostly as a show for kids in the eyes of most, and so anime is no different to everyone these days. We also have to take into account that the US is very pro live action movies, so voice-acting is seen as weaker compared to acting on the big screen, Example: There is a best animated movie Oscar to make sure that those films can never win; a best picture Oscar. Gundam is a series that Bandai really loves, but since it’s not Japan and we’re not buying “everything little thing” when it comes to Gundam, they don’t think it’s worth it to push it so much in the US, they do the animes for some more cash because, again we are very pro live action and motion picture sided, so animes do better than mangas as the everyday people would rather watch something than read. That’s how the US is made.

Topic 2: Harmony Gold will maintain an iron grip on Robotech, and no one else is ever going to release any Macross.

2. The day they let go is when pigs fly. Again the US is very pro live action, with the Robotech movie coming, the masses will be mainstreamed into Robotech thinking that’s all there is. In some ways, Harmony Gold has their own logo. They could just write their own stories and walk across Macross (Not a Pun) and do a whole new world called Robotech as if it never come from Macross. Plus no one really sees animation a big profit. Don’t have much to say besides that.

As a little after note, even if we don’t get everything here; we should be grateful for what we do get. I am happy I got Gundam 00 and CCA. All I can say is we can hope, if we have that; things are not as dark.

One of these days I'm gonna get Bright!Solar Radio Wave
"Video games are evil."
-Yoshiyuki Tomino
The "v" in my name is whatever you think it is.

Topic 1: Gundam will never be as popular again in America as it once was.

I really don't think it can make a comeback. Mentalities and tastes have changed since the days of Toonami and Mighty Morphing Power Rangers. Some kids look at anime as weird and old, and prefer to watch shows like Johnny Test since its newer and "better looking". There is also almost no way to market these shows other than to kids because the guys in the corporate office, minus the various anime distributors, think they are just Japanese cartoons and they don't mean anything.

There are also the people that believe anime is just porn and extreme violence and not for any child to watch. This conflict hinders the comeback of Gundam and even anime to return to television. Between the over protection of parents in this day and age and the people not watching it because it looks weird, you can't really market a Gundam series in this kind of time. Maybe when the soccer moms and the notion that anime is "ultra-violence"/"Just for kids" dies down, it maybe cool make a comeback. The probability of this happening is almost zero.

Sure, we'd love to live in a world were you can walk into Toys-R-Us or Wal-Mart and pick up a Gundam model or action figure, but it just isn't going to happen now. There is the internet, but companies don't just want to market it towards anime fans, but kids as well. They want to create the next Power Rangers, something that will come out of no where and make kids go crazy for the series and merchandise. So can Gundam make a comeback in the states? Yes, it can for anime fans, but can it be popular with others outside of the fandom? No, I really don't think it can.

Topic 2: Harmony Gold will maintain an iron grip on Robotech, and no one else is ever going to release any Macross.

Not too keen on this subject, but this is what I think from the things I've learned. I don't think it can unless whoever is in charge leaves someone else takes charge. This new head could think "Hey, this is just sitting here and not doing anything, why not sell it?". When this happens, the death grip will most likely be gone and Macross can actually be released in the US. Again, like Gundam's comback, I don't really think it has a chance of happening.

At this point, its sad to say this, but yeah, Gundam franchise won't be as wildly popular as it was with Gundan Wing. There are many factors that people are willing to bring up, but I'll stop here. However, I'm sure the fans that grew up with the franchise will continue to love it, no matter what.

On Topic 2:

Will be interesting to see if someone is ever going to stand up against Harmony Gold. I don't know if this make sense, what Harmony Gold is doing is like making Disney's the Little Mermaid the "official" one while blocking the original of Hans Christian (does it make sense?). Otherwise, people should address their disapproval in some way.

How much better is being a Creepy Bishonen compared to an AEUG slapping boy?

If Ginrai, the Japanese truck driver living in America, can be the leader of Cybertron Forces, then what can a pizza delivery boy be?

Chris wrote:
Topic 1: Gundam will never be as popular again in America as it once was.

I think that Gundam is too much for america now. I mean people these days can not take well thought out storys and shows that actually have plot. I know I was trying to hang with my younger friends and they were going on about how great transformers 2 was. I tried then to show them one of the greatest movies ever, The Last Of the Mohicans, (the 90's version) and they told me how boring it was and they needed more action. I mean has anyone actually tried to actually look at cartoon network, and how badly drawn and just plain uninteresting.

"I am the way the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father but by me"-Jesus Christ

Chris wrote:
Topic 1: Gundam will never be as popular again in America as it once was.

Not in our lifetime no. Anime as a whole got a huge boom from Cartoon Network, as more anime was shown on american TV then any other time in history. Now Cartoon Network barely shows any anime period. Family Guy and Robot Chicken are now considered the the premeir cartoon shows on that network. Put simply the majority of the american population has to see it to accept it. No anime on TV, no growth of the fan base.

The only real hope I see is the coming wave of live action movies from hollywood based on anime shows or movies. Battle Angel Antilia, Akira, Ghost in the Shell, Cowboy Bebop and other anime series are currently being backed by hollywood stars. (James Cameron, Leonardo Di Caprio, The Wachowski's, and Keanu Reves respectivly) That being said when and IF these movies are ever shown in the USA it will not create the same boom. If these movies do create a new growth in the anime, and gundam, fanbase it will be a very slow growing one. We will never again see gundam at the peak of it popularity that we saw in the late 90's bet we may see a slow growth in anime as whole. Then again maybe I'm just wistling in the graveyard.

Concerning harmony gold, i am a part of the mektek community, which does a mod for mechwarrior 4. The team got a C&D on several models on the mod that supposedly looked like mechs from robotech. I just really hate these people, they are very money grubbing, considering that they never made macross, southern cross and magazone 23 that they frankenstein together.