Nihil Est Quam Salvos

So, it has come to this, dear Evertonians. Daring to dream just a few short months ago of top-four challenges and a long-overdue return to the elite, the footballing gods have slapped you back down in the cruellest of fashions.

Fold away the “Our Motto Is Our Standard” banner and padlock the doors to the School of Science”. Sam Allardyce, disgraced ex-England manager, purveyor of quintessentially agricultural football and Premier League escapologist is now manager of this Grand Old Team. Jesus — and probably Bill Dean, the Golden Vision and the Holy Trinity as well — wept!

Too melodramatic? For many Blues fans today, not really. Because Allardyce represents everything Everton managers have tended not to be — allegedly corrupt, boorish, unsophisticated… and if we couldn't manage that, at least we tried to retain our class and dignity) – the very antithesis of Nil Satis Nisi Optimum, the man to whom lesser clubs run in a panic to save themselves from relegation. But desperate times have clearly called for desperate and very expensive measures, hiring a manager without a trophy to his name who has lost more games than he has won. And to rub salt in the wounds, the club has got Sammy Lee into the bargain.

Everton removed its proud old motto from the badge four years ago, a move that was wholly rejected by the supporters but one which was cruelly prescient as it turns out. We may as well mothball it for now, too, because of the utter mess that the hierarchy have created over the past few months. Forced to cow to Allardyce’s every demand it would seem — reports suggest he will be earning more than double than he was at Crystal Palace — having had to go back to him cap in hand as the situation on the pitch has deteriorated since Ronald Koeman was dismissed.

Those dreams of getting back into the position we thought we were when Everton were splashing out tens of millions on supposedly star players aren’t completely dead, of course; merely put on the back-burner while the club tries to drag itself away from a relegation dogfight of its own making but to say the grand vision has suffered a severe setback is massive understatement.

If there is method to Farhad Moshiri and Bill Kenwright’s madness here beyond blind panic, it’s only for us mere Evertonian mortals to guess at because a rationale has not been forthcoming. It couldn’t be, of course — the Board is hardly going to issue a grovelling mea culpa over its criminally ineffective summer recruitment, the murky division of responsibility between Koeman and Steve Walsh for selecting targets and the bafflingly incomplete attempt at building a team.

Let it not be forgotten that this proud fanbase does not deserve the crap being served up on the pitch and flung its way with this managerial appointment. Evertonians responded to Moshiri’s grand ambitions and big spending by buying season tickets in record numbers. Away ends remain packed out every fortnight or so despite travelling Blues not having witnessed an away win since January. The European tour has been similarly well attended with a pair of miserable 3-0 defeats the reward for their loyalty, and financial and emotional investment.

It will also be up to this long-suffering but proud fanbase to rally together despite their misgivings over an unpopular appointment and his rotund side-kick, support the team (despite the responsibility many of the players must share in creating the chaos) and not allow this crisis to divide them as we ride it out. Because there is a risk that Goodison’s creeping toxicity could be intensified by their ire at this decision if results don’t start turning around quickly.

Regardless, Allardyce’s management suggests he won’t be around long and there is unlikely to be any pretence at Board level that this is an appointment designed to further the Blues’ ambitions on the pitch; rather it will hopefully protect those important ones off it, most pertinently the Bramley-Moore Dock stadium project. Not to mention, of course, Everton’s proud top-flight membership record and the millions in revenue it now guarantees.

Liverpool Mayor Joe Anderson has already said that if the previously unthinkable happened and Everton went down, it wouldn’t derail plans for the new ground but there is no question it would severely affect everything from sponsorship and naming rights to the simple ability to fill the thing, particularly if, as is hoped, the capacity is pegged closer to 60,000.

As supporters, we have no choice, of course, but to get on board with this act of naked short-termism and hope that Everton doesn’t become the first Premier League club Allardyce takes down. We’ll have to grit our teeth and grimace at the sight of a man who was drummed out of his dream job as England boss after a newspaper sting caught him apparently negotiating a £400,000 deal to help what he thought was a Far Eastern business consortium skirt the rules around third-party ownership of football players standing on the touchline with a Red behind him.

At the end of the day, our Premier League survival is of the utmost importance and if this is the price we have to pay to preserve it then it’s one Moshiri, Kenwright and the Board seem prepared to pay. But there are no guarantees, nothing set in stone to confirm that a man who had effectively retired after leaving Crystal Palace earlier this year will keep this side up. It’s a calculated gamble that he will be true to his reputation and that, presumably, the club can cast him off as soon as its safety has been assured in the summer if he completes the first and most urgent remit of his new job. (If there’s a crumb of comfort it’s that a move for Sean Dyche would have signalled a desire for a more permanent solution.)

For all the negatives around his footballing ethos, “Fat Sam” has built his CV in recent years by eventually being successful at the task he is hired to do.

He is renowned as a man-manager who can get better out of struggling players, who maximises the strengths of his team while exploiting the weaknesses of the opposition.

He is also known for his analysis of other teams and working out how to beat them with an uncomplicated but effective style that often relies on robust defences, tall strikers and direct football. But he will find less to work with when he arrives at Finch Farm than perhaps he is used to and some questionable motivation among some players. Phil Jagielka and Michael Keane, for example, do not scream tough and grizzled centre half — although the captain has, of course, often put his body on the line for the cause — and Dominic Calvert-Lewin is no Christian Benteke or Andy Carroll. The likes of Kevin Mirallas, Morgan Schneiderlin, meanwhile, senior players who have let the club down recently, will need either an arm around the shoulder or a pair of size 10s up the backside.

At Sunderland, Allardyce maximised the talents of Jermain Defoe by using his movement and running in the channels as well and then his big defenders at set-pieces. Granted, Defoe is a more natural finisher and prolific goalscorer than anyone on the Blues’ books at the moment but there’s hope that the new manager could get the best out of someone like Sandro Ramirez who has energy to burn and a willingness to run and chase. Assuming he is able is able to come back the player he was, Yannick Bolasie is another player who could work well within an Allardyce team. What he pushes for in the January transfer window remains to be seen but it’s likely he has never had the kind of budget at his disposal that Moshiri could provide.

And therein lies what is perhaps the only intriguing aspect of this unpalatable turn of events. For Allardyce, the assignment with the national team aside, this is, potentially, the best job he has ever had; a chance to justify his own belief that he deserves a crack at one of England’s big clubs and shed his “Fireman Sam” image. Granted, it’s not a top role right now but with the talent that undoubtedly exists in the current Everton squad, the youth system that helps support it and Moshiri’s millions starting next month, the potential is there.

People scoffed that the FA had seemingly run out of home-grown managers to try when they appointed Allardyce as Roy Hodgson’s successor two years ago but the Midlands-born sexagenarian no doubt felt he could surprise a few people and he will hopefully feel the same way now.

“Hopefully” because, having announced he was more or less retired after leaving Selhurst Park, the one thing he will have to show is that he still has the appetite and drive; that he has a burning desire to thumb his nose at his detractors by managing an attractive footballing side; that he wants to protect that top-flight survival record; and that this isn’t one last massive pay-day.

Ultimately, the Sam Allardyce that Moshiri, Walsh et al think they are getting is what this under-performing Everton team needs even if he is one of the last managers Evertonians want. It’s a roll of the dice as all appointments are, an admission of desperation, an illustration of how far the club has fallen in a breathtakingly short amount of time and a damning indictment of the club’s failings this year that throws into sharp relief Moshiri’s naïveté and inexperience as a Premier League owner.

It would seem he has the money with which to back the club as he gets to grips with the project he has taken on at Goodison Park and he is certainly throwing enough of it the way of his new hire. Let’s hope he has gambled right and it gets Everton out of a precarious position because the alternative doesn’t bear thinking about. At this point, it seems survival is the only thing that matters — not even pride.

Reader Comments (106)

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Barry Thompson 1Posted
29/11/2017 at
18:19:49

I thought that was the name of our new striker for a minute, Lyndon.

Brian Denton 2Posted
29/11/2017 at
18:25:21

That Latin is truly dreadful, Lyndon. Where did it come from? Surely not Google Translate  that's about as reliable as Boys Pen Bill.

Off to the game now. I'll set you forty lines later.

Paul Ferry 3Posted
29/11/2017 at
18:26:16

Lyndon, mate, you have captured the very essence of how I feel and the very essence of this club.

How we laughed when the Croydon lads gave a job to the fat, shamed, fella whose name I cannot bring myself to mention.

Kenwright. Hang your head in shame you fraud. How much more damage will you do to this club? The best of all Evertonians signing off on bring shithouse Lee to this club.

It feels like I would have felt if we had lost to Wimbledon that day.

Beautifully caught, Lyndon. Every Evertonian I know feels the same way. Six fecking million. What has this fraud done to become one of the dozen best salaried gaffer.

How low has this board fallen. Down on knees and cap in hand to this fucker. I feel dirty.

Christine Foster 5Posted
29/11/2017 at
18:33:38

Well written if rather sobering, Lyndon. Frankly, my anger is not at the choice of Allardyce, it is at the abject dereliction of care and duty by the board. The whole saga of Koeman dates well back to when many of us identified that Koeman was a charlatan, a conman and a bully. Yet many welcomed his appointment as a breath of fresh air... I wish we could wind the clock back.

The board oversaw a disgraceful transfer window, the sacking of Koeman without a manager in waiting, the hanging out to dry for 5 weeks for Unsworth, hopelessly out of his depth.

We find ourselves with few options, a team that isn't... on the brink without a plan, without a prayer. Left between a rock and a hard place.

I wish him luck and I have no doubt that he will do the job required, and you know, I do not care if we win by a single goal, right now we need to win again.

He is Everton manager and I fully support him.

I just wish we had not been left in a position were we had little choice.

Yes Lyndon, put the motto on ice in the fridge... it's going to get rather dirty out here until we can bring it out again. Not because of Allardyce, but because of the useless management team at Everton FC.

I look forward to the day when board members and chairman are replaced; they should walk but of course no one will take responsibility, will they?

Mike Hughes 6Posted
29/11/2017 at
18:38:35

Isn't complaining about Allardyce's appointment a bit like complaining about the Rentokil van parked outside your house when the real problem is the rat infestation inside it?

Allardyce is not the problem. Hopefully, he is the solution. I think he is getting wrongly lambasted.

Now where are the rats?

Winning nothing for 22/23 years is a long way from "Nil Satis"  so this is no recent issue.

Spending record investment and getting worse week by week smacks of negligence or incompetence.

Laughing stock? Yes  but not because of our pending manager.

Steve Hogan 7Posted
29/11/2017 at
18:45:15

Christine (#5)

I think the majority of fans welcomed Koeman's initial appointment and the determination of our new owner to 'get his man'. Many thought this was the end of plucky little Everton.

The last three month's have been a nightmare and he simply had to be sacked because the team was going backward's and had stopped playing for him.

However at what stage did you identify him becoming a 'charlatan, conman and a bully'? I presume it was some time before he led us to seventh place last season and now?

Not trying to be smart here, but your personal dislike for him has been evident in many previous posts.

James Stewart 8Posted
29/11/2017 at
18:48:31

Excellent article that perfectly articulates many blues' world-weary mood at present. I think Moshiri is going to become despised very quickly if he keeps this up.

John Boon 9Posted
29/11/2017 at
18:50:42

In regard to the appointment of Sam Allardyce, I think it would take a very brave individual to react with either optimism or take the more pessimistic view.

As a fan of 70 years support since 1947, I am totally confused. Last time we were relegated, it came as no real surprise. We knew we could come back to Division One quite quickly. However, it took three long years, even then.

I cannot believe that we are hiring a manager merely to keep us in the Premier League. That is plainly the truth and as bad as it sounds that is all I expect for now. However, I am sure that any Evertonian expects far more over the next few years.

We have to resist complaining about this new appointment and hope that his experience will prove invaluable. I feel a little sorry for Unsworth but not so sorry that I want him to stay. I hope we can survive and recover from the worst manager, Koeman, that we have ever had... yes, the worst. He at least had money, which most of the former managers didn't have.

We have to stop being critical of the hierarchy, the support staff and the players. Moshiri may have made some errors as has Kenwright. I still don't think they deliberately hired the wrong people. They probably had high expectations about who they brought into the club. They were wrong but they are at least trying to correct the situation.

Besides, while we do need Moshiri's money, we shouldn't expect him to be a football expert. Whether we like it or not, we have to give Allardyce a genuine chance... after all, we are running out of options. However, no matter how bad it gets, our great club should never run out of supporters . Therefore "get behind our new man".

Everybody needs to feel wanted... even if he is making £6 million a year and I really will never know how that feels. As scousers we are the very best at two things: 1 Laughing; 2 Complaining. I just hope I am laughing next April...

Noleen Daya 10Posted
29/11/2017 at
18:58:06

My fellow Evertonians, maybe we are also to blame. We don't protest at the gates of Goodison, we can show our disgust with banners that will really embarrass the club. We can boycott games at the ground even if just for one match. Anything outwardly to show the hierarchy we take this kind of !!!!!!????? (Like with "Martinez out") very seriously.

I live in South Africa but, if I was living in Liverpool, I'd be doing my bit to show my horror at what's happening.

As for talking through Jim White  words fail me. The ultimate display of classless and disrespect. I sent an email to the hierarchy through the official website today. I didn't mince words. I guess nobody will read it or care!

Mark Daley 11Posted
29/11/2017 at
19:22:58

Woah! Sic transit gloria mersi! Romanes eunt domus! Or our new motto could just be nil satis. Or just nil...

Having said which, if he works an Anfield miracle, I'll build a church and start worshipping him once the pigs have landed at Speke.

Tony Abrahams 12Posted
29/11/2017 at
19:31:35

I drive past Goodison nearly every day, and I remember the disdain I had for Kenwright, when “our motto” used to be on a big long banner across the park end stand.

It's like the language that it's written in, and belongs in the past, it's been embraced by me in the past, but not any longer, because it's something my club stopped striving for many years ago.

I'm not sure about Allardyce, he's been called many things, and his football has never been the best either, but he's a man of great experience, and I'm going to give him some time before I reserve any real judgement.

He might be a greedy bastard, but it's the nature of the game, and whereas Koeman, came for one reason only, I believe that this is a job that Allardyce, really wants, and he actually sees Everton, as the big club it used to be, and maybe even has visions of bringing that old Latin phrase, back to life?

Lev Vellene 13Posted
29/11/2017 at
19:55:05

I'll take this on the cheek! We asked for better than we deserved, and we got it!

Now we have Big Sam for some time, and what other wake-up call would Everton fans (belatedly...) need??? We are no longer in Kansas, nor the 60s or the mid-80s! Did we ever suck outside of those moments? Do we suck even more now?

Jim Bailey 14Posted
29/11/2017 at
19:56:42

With the ability and presence to write an article like this I find it hard to believe that TW has not kicked up a stink with previous managers when it was clear that they were failing. As an example the Echo (yes, I know) were fully behind the RS when they wanted Brendan Rogers out.

It seems to me that TW has a lot of clout that remains unused and I have to ask why.

This article smacks of brattishness to me.

Jim Lloyd 15Posted
29/11/2017 at
19:56:54

John Boon, Tony Abrahams,

Excellent posts.

Lyndon Lloyd 16Posted
29/11/2017 at
19:57:32

In my haste to get this penned before the game, I confess I did use Google but have since changed it. If I could remember any of the two years of Latin I did in school, it might have helped!

“Fold away the “Our Motto Is Our Standard” banner and padlock the doors to the School of Science”. Sam Allardyce, disgraced ex-England manager, purveyor of quintessentially agricultural football and Premier League escapologist is now manager of this Grand Old Team. Jesus — and probably Bill Dean, the Golden Vision and the Holy Trinity as well — wept!”

You might have valid grounds saying that the process we went through to get a new manager was rubbish, but spare us the moral high ground please! We have Rooney in the team and Big Dunc as coach! Should we have sacked them as well?!

At the end of the day, Alladyce was considered good enough to be England manager a year ago. He has done great jobs keeping Sunderland and Palace up in his last 2 jobs. Lets give him a chance shall we? Oh, and I think Dixie Dean would have still scored a few headers in a Sam Alladyce team!

Tony McNulty 20Posted
29/11/2017 at
22:46:51

I know why we have been addressed in Latin.

At least half of the regular ToffeeWebbers don't understand Greek.

John Davies 21Posted
29/11/2017 at
22:51:27

The problem is we all thought that we had a major winner in Ronald Koeman. With his experience as a player, and as a manger, his CV filled the bill. However, if we had kept him, we could have got relegated.

All the managers they approached turned Everton down for a number of reasons, the major ones being it's the middle of the season. In some ways that's not the board's fault, it all happened at the wrong time.

As for Allardyce lets see what happens before we all start going nuts, for me and perhaps other mature supporters, it looks like the return of Gordon Lee.

Let's not forget what a disaster Martinez, and Koeman were, maybe Allardyce can learn from us.

George Stuart 22Posted
29/11/2017 at
22:54:06

Very well put, Lyndon.

I have hated Fat Sam and everything he stands for, for a long time. And now he is manager of Everton. I know I am in the Matrix now with Trump in the White house, Britain out of Europe, and Sam Allardyce managing Everton.

I'm somewhat stuck for words really as I contemplate the reality.

I have to start liking Big Sam. Let's all just hope the leopard can change its spots and do so whilst creating a successful team.

ps: Sammy Lee.... FFS?

Jamie Sweet 23Posted
29/11/2017 at
22:57:00

I've been waiting for this article Lyndon, because as a very well balanced writer, I wondered if you would still manage to find something to be positive about. And you haven't really, which speaks volumes about this appointment.

However, I also believe as a fan base we can generally be easily won over by anyone if they do things right and with the best of intentions for our club.

If Mr Allardyce starts producing results, talks us up as a club, says a few nice things about our history, gets a result at Anfield, then steers us back into the top 8, then our overall indignation could soon turn to general acceptance and the feeling that "he's come in, done a job, respected the club, left us in better shape than when he arrived. Good man."

If he fails at all of the above, then we're in for a very very rough 6 months. It would be a really fascinating scenario if it was happening to some club other than ours.

Lyndon Lloyd 24Posted
29/11/2017 at
22:59:00

Dany (19: "spare us the moral high ground please! We have Rooney in the team and Big Dunc as coach! Should we have sacked them as well?!"

It's not my decision to make but, for what it's worth, I'm not particularly enamoured with either player and we wouldn't have hired them back if I would have had anything to do with it.

Kiern Moran 25Posted
29/11/2017 at
23:02:45

I was told this new at work earlier and my first thought was my "God are we that shit now?" Unsworth says that it is too early to speak of relegation struggle.

We stuff West Ham four-nil. Rooney scores a hat trick. And now we have a relegation specialist as manager. Strange days indeed, strange days indeed.

Christine Foster 26Posted
29/11/2017 at
23:11:47

Steve Hogan (#7),

I wish I could pull up the earlier posts (have tried but cannot get the 2016-17 comments... however, to answer your post as best as I can.

My "personal dislike for the man is evident" comment I confess is on the money, and there were a few others who didn't buy into the refreshing change, his treatment of the Barkley contract situation, akin to bullying in my opinion was for me (as I commented on a number of times last season) was the catalyst and whilst many on here applauded it, I did not. Without digging up the who said what and when, I felt his intransigence was alienating players and not cementing a good team spirit or ethos. The awful (truly dreadful) pre-season games this season had me furious, poor team selection, attitude and well it goes on..

I want the best for my football club, we all do.. we may disagree on what and how to get it but at least we can say how we feel and give the reasons for it.

In the end, as I have said also, the blame was not all Koeman's and responsibility for decisions (transfer selection etc) lies also with the board / management of the club. But as a coach he fell way short both at a tactical level and as a man manager. He wasn't good enough and tried to get people out of the club he didn't want, forcing him into an embarrassing corner.

So yes... I guess I didn't like the way he conducted himself, his demeanour and the fact he never ever bought into Everton... some of us never bought into him.

Darren Hind 27Posted
29/11/2017 at
23:13:11

This will prove to be a mistake.

Unsworth has been slaughtered for defeats at Chelsea and games in a competition that had long since ceased to matter, but for a guy who is "out of his depth" he has steered us very nicely away from the danger zone in just over a month.

The people who claimed Rhino was not up to the job have gotten their wish. They have the "experienced" fire fighter they were calling for, lets hope he doesn't put us back in the mire like the last "big name" did.

The likelihood now is we will beat Huddersfield and ease into the top half. The panic merchants will feel relieved, but when we are "mathematically safe" as Sam generally likes to describe his goal, we will still be stuck with him.

Of course we have to give Sammy boy a chance, but Rhino is going to feel a right Cinderella after this, He's won three of the six premier league games he has overseen given him a win ratio of 50% (best ever?) yet he finds himself sandwiched between the two ugly sisters.

No wonder Goodison Park rose as one to Unsworth. He wasn't asked to manage football club, he was asked to catch a fucking Juggernaut which had gone over a cliff.

He'll be off soon. He's had a taste of being in the hot seat and anyone who saw him tonight (when he was really under pressure) will tell you he fucking loved it.

Brian Denton 28Posted
29/11/2017 at
23:22:31

Lyndon, better but still no cigar. It's the 'salvos' that's the problem.

Anyway, tonight was better. Rooney is one of a handful of players in the country who could score that goal. I'm off to the post match thread now.

Lee and Frank McParland, Bolton's then general manager, were found to have lied about two meetings they claimed had taken place with McCann in a restaurant in Liverpool, designed to show that they had discussed McCann with SEM earlier than they did.

His honour Judge Waksman QC, in his 2014 judgment, said he did not accept that any such meetings took place and stated of Lee's, Bolton's and SEM's evidence: “Their accounts do not stack up and are riddled with inconsistencies and different versions over time.”

Rest home for ex players and now this. Nil Satis – what a joke

Dennis Stevens 30Posted
30/11/2017 at
00:52:32

Valid concerns raised, Lyndon. Can Allardyce use this opportunity to prove he's capable of far more than we expect of him, or is it one last payday from a Board driven by desperation & panic?

At least he won't be under the immediate pressure to climb out of the bottom three that Unsworth took on after Koeman was sacked. I have grave concerns regarding the negative potential for the Club from this appointment & hope they prove unfounded.

Steve Ferns 31Posted
30/11/2017 at
01:03:00

You missed Sam Allardyce scandal number 2 of 3 out of the article: Guardian

For those that can't be arsed to read it. Ravel Morrison the bad boy Man Utd got rid of who briefly shone at West Ham under Allardyce, yes him. He was told by Allardyce to change agent to his mate, Mark Curtis. When he refused he was dropped and sent to the reserves and soon found himself on loan at QPR. Morrison recorded Allardyce threatening to wreck his career if he didn't switch agents.

Yes Dennis, very worrying. You'd think his excessive salary would be enough. Or he'd have his hands full on sorting out the team. But it seems like he is always looking to make a little extra on the side. I just can't work the man out. If he can do it at England, and who cares however Sam spins it, he cannot disagree that he took a £400,000 job to advise the stingers. Why was he looking for extra jobs on the side?

Brent Stephens 34Posted
30/11/2017 at
01:17:55

Lyndon, I'm also less than pleased that Sam has come in. But "corrupt (allegedly!), boorish, unsophisticated"?

I think that weakens an otherwise reasonable article.

Chad Schofield 35Posted
30/11/2017 at
01:43:30

Unfortunately Steve I'd suggest it's the old adage of the scorpion and the frog... It's in his nature. There was no need, he'd landed his supposed dream job, but jeopardised it simply to show off.

The images of him strolling around on his phone and shaking hands like a rock star don't fill me with confidence, but I'll admit to being biased. I was really pleased for him when he landed the England job not quite as pleased when he withdrew from wanting the Everton job, but pleased.

He'd have struck the deal or a slightly sweeter one at Christmas if we needed him. The board have royally messed up this season and have made us look like rank amatuers with their shambolic decisions and indecision. Unveiling Big Sam as though he was a AAA appointment this evening while everyone knows he's screwed us down just tops it all off.

I don't blame him for looking out for himself, but let's hope he really doesn't sting us.

Jason Broome 36Posted
30/11/2017 at
02:02:19

If someone would have told me that Sam Allardyce would be Everton Manager by November, I would have laughed my arse off.

Joke's on us now. Fuck me.

Jamie Crowley 37Posted
30/11/2017 at
03:05:59

I'm thrilled with tonight's result, and the way in the main, we played.

Sam will get my support because what else am I to do?

But am I happy with his appointment? No. Not at all.

The above citing of Sam's improprieties are why I simply have a bad taste in my mouth. It is, however, important to note that people do indeed make mistakes and can amend their ways. I guess I'm hoping Sam stays spotless and completely above-board while with Everton. I will always want my team to conduct themselves ethically, with class, and dignity.

My second son recently was initiated into a fraternity at Florida State University. The pledging process can often witness horrific hazing and acts that simply aren't acceptable. While pledging I had a long "text-talk" with him about his actions and how he conducts himself.

I told him  always do the RIGHT thing. Don't let your moral compass waiver in life, no matter what the landscape. There will be many, many instances in life where doing something "gray" or "shady" is more simple and expedient, and will offer greater personal gain. Don't go down that road. Do the right thing, always, no matter what the consequences, and life will be a more pleasant journey in the end.

I can't help but think of that, and how it relates to our present situation. Have we enlisted a crooked man due to the current landscape, compromising our principles? Or have we done the prudent thing, and hired a [hopefully] changed man looking to redeem his reputation?

All this sounds very naive and Utopian I realize.

I'm not happy with the appointment at all. But I'll get behind him, forgiving past indiscretions, until he proves my blind faith (and possibly gullible approach) a fool's dream.

I'll support. Again, what the hell else am I to do?

But if this guy goes all "money on the side" or starts playing the type of shite football he's stereotypically (and rightfully really) accused of?

I'll want him out immediately.

Gullible, Trusting, Simple Crowley. A Man who's still kinda pissed off we hired this guy...

Denver Daniels 38Posted
30/11/2017 at
05:43:30

Moyes to Martinez to Koeman to Allardyce.

I thought we were supposed to be on the up?

Phil Walling 39Posted
30/11/2017 at
11:18:13

What is Latin for 'a nest of vipers'? And I don't refer just to the yet to be officially released news of managerial appointments.

The list of transgressions, suspected transgressions, alleged transgressions et al referred to in these columns goes right up to our 'sort of owner's' mates at another club. But who really cares ? Not many of us, I suspect as we all slept soundly in our beds last night after a game to remember which took us clear of the dreaded drop zone.

I, rather like a great number of us who use this site to sound off, no longer put a penny into the coffers of the club I used to worship  so why pretend faux moral outrage at its current direction of travel? All we have to do is wait for the next scandal to erupt and then we can 'give it some' with a vengeance!

So let's change that outdated, redundant motto to 'nidus odorum genimina viperarum' and sod the morals  it's only football!

Tony Hill 40Posted
30/11/2017 at
11:36:20

#31. Gosh, secret tapes which Jermaine Pennant knows about from his mate Ravel Morrison  all set forth conclusively in Murdoch's shitrag. Just as well we have keen legal minds tracking all this for us.

Winston Williamson 41Posted
30/11/2017 at
13:03:45

Darren (27)  I also think this is a big mistake. Why couldn't we have given Unsworth until after the Huddersfield game to see what the landscape was?

Other than a European dead-rubber game, where Unsworth played a load of players yet to be given a chance by him (and they failed, again), our home form was looking better and performances were starting to improve slightly (very slightly, but gradual).

We have recently seen what damage a manager can do in a short space of time. I do not buy into Sam Allardyce being a guarantee for survival. Even if he does achieve survival, then what? Has he built anything substantial recently (Bolton was years ago..)??

I have yet to see any long-term planning at any club by Allardyce... only short-termism, yet short-termism can have a lasting negative effect.

Dale Rose 42Posted
30/11/2017 at
13:04:44

Very good article, Lyndon, it would appear you're one of the closet romantics, reminiscent of Shelley...

Henrik Lyngsie 44Posted
30/11/2017 at
13:18:20

On another managerial note, I was watching the MotD interview with Moyes after the match.

Moyes might be dour and a boring manager but I still think he has got class. There was no complaining about the Everton penalty. All we blues would agree that it was a penalty. But imagine Wenger, Mourinho, SAF or Conte how they would be moaning. Everton under Moyes we're not surrounding the ref, diving or complaining and Moyes always sat the example. That part I always admired.

Sam Hoare 45Posted
30/11/2017 at
13:29:01

Great article Lyndon, that well elucidates how I feel on the subject. The board panicked and appointed a firefighting specialist even though we are now closer to 9th than the relegation zone. A backwards step seemingly borne out of desperation and poor planning.

However he is now our manager and as such I will certainly give him my backing. I agree with those who say that he will (perhaps unlike Koeman) apply himself fully to the job as this is the opportunity that he has waited for for a long time. I do not believe that he is a bad manager and though I dislike his football and some of the 'baggage' that accompanies him he is now our gaffer. I think Sammy Lee and Shakespeare should make an effective coaching team with alot of experience and I hope they will take advantage of the slight turn in momentum that Unsworth has given them.

Though certainly not my first choice (or even in my top 6!) I am excited to see what type of approach he goes for and of course as all managers he will be judged first and foremost on the results. If he moves us up the table then he will be loved. If he can do so while playing good football and developing our talented young crop then that will be a bonus. If he does both of these and truly falls in love with the club then he may yet prove an inspired decision.

He has an extended audition for the job. I hope he grabs it with both hands and proves his detractors (myself included) wrong as that will mean EFC is doing well.

Anthony Flack 46Posted
30/11/2017 at
13:29:50

Just as Putin apparently has a video of Trump doing terrible things to zoo animals in his Moscow hotel room, Big Sam will need to be squeaky clean from now on.

There will be all sorts out to entrap or dig up old dirt.

Ian Edwards 47Posted
30/11/2017 at
13:50:14

I disagree that Barkley should go into the team when fit.

Last season he continually lost the ball in possession, his passes went astray and he was slow. He also seemed a tad overweight in my view.

He was the link between midfield and attack and his slow build up play to Lukaku was the reason that we only won 4 away league games last season.

He has turned down a supposed big contract and he should be shipped out in January.

Raymond Fox 48Posted
30/11/2017 at
14:01:41

It's a biased article, Lyndon.

As Brent (#34), mentions to use the words 'corrupt', 'boorish' and 'unsophisticated' is an example of your bias. It's what he does now, is what matters to me.

Every club job he has had has been attempting to do well on a shoestring. To manage us is easily his biggest opportunity club-wise, and I think he will do well.

He knows the game and the Premier League inside out, probably more than any other manager right now. Although last nights result has eased the relegation fears, he still has a difficult job on his hands.

We can only wait and see how things work out, but I think he will be a much better manager than his detractors expect.

Eddie Dunn 49Posted
30/11/2017 at
14:07:04

Lyndon, I am surprised that you use the term "Agricultural football". It really is a nonsense! Do people in rural areas hoof it long, perhaps to avoid the hedges or molehills?

Incidentally, I have a feeling that Mr Allardyce will bring about some positive changes to our football and we may all be pleasantly surprised.

Pete Clarke 50Posted
30/11/2017 at
14:10:21

Moshiri put Allardyce on 3 mil a year but told him if he promised not to rob the tea ladies, threaten the kids and charge the players for parking then he would top it up to £6 mil.

" Awlrite then" Big Sam says!

Jay Wood 51Posted
30/11/2017 at
14:11:21

As others have already pointed out, a curious out-of-character commentary piece by Lyndon, full of emotive language and labelling.

Now I was firmly in the camp that it was way, way too premature to consider as many did that we were 'doomed to be relegated' unless we appointed crisis management specialist, Sam Allardyce. Last night's result kinda emphasizes that belief.

I was looking up, not down. Like many, I was hopeful David Unsworth could make a decent fist of things. Undoubtedly, he was dealt a really tough hand with a challenging and packed fixture list. To a degree, he did turn things around a tad in the Premier League.

However, he also oversaw 3 particularly brutal maulings which, however much some strive to air brush out of history, did not augur well.

Moshiri and the board evidently prevaricated far too long on making a decision on the manager's role. Before the recent international break that may be considered as prudent. That no decision was made within that 2-week break or for a further 2 weeks following it might be seen as reckless.

There is a sense of rash panic in finally appointing Allardyce. I believe there are better options out there, both for the here and now and with an eye to the future and where (I hope!) Moshiri still wants to take us.

That said, he is now our manager. I am not going to indulge in moral outrage and indignation as many have chosen to do on his alleged corruption when no charges have ever been brought against him, either by the sports governing body, the FA, or a court of law.

I will certainly not be declaring my withdrawal of support from the club and the team (which is as part of my DNA as my bone marrow) until Allardyce is no longer associated with the club, least of all on a fans' forum such as this.

Am I totally enamoured at his appointment? No. But nor was I all those years ago when I came home from work and me mam had left a note for me on the mantelpiece with 2 words on it: Billy Bingham. I tore the note in half and binned it with a curse. But I supported him and the team... and bugger me if he didn't go really close to winning us the league.

Gordon Lee and Martinez were also underwhelming appointments for me, but I stuck with it and both gave us good moments.

The long and the short of it is that any appointment is a completely lottery. That's why I haven't been as agitated as some about the various merits and demerits of possible candidates.

Sam Allardyce is now Everton's manager. I was curious to see what he could do as England manager (and we all know why and how that ended). I am doubly curious to see what he will now do as Everton manager.

As an Evertonian, you would have to be a tad perverse to wish him ill and hope he fails because in the final reckoning that impacts on the single thing that (I hope!) unites us all: a passion for Everton.

Good luck, Sam.

Pete Clarke 52Posted
30/11/2017 at
14:31:02

While Sam Allerdyce is here, he will have total control on football matters. He knows way too much for Kenwright and Moshiri to understand and I'd add streetwise of course so they won't be able to play with like Martinez or Koeman.

It would just be Everton for you that Big Sam takes this dream job by the scruff of the neck and wins the next ten games therefore endearing himself to all of us nonbelievers. Then Moshiri sacks him because we're safe!!

Mike Hughes 53Posted
30/11/2017 at
15:41:55

Peter Clarke  if that scenario played out, ie, Allardyce winning the next 10 games then Moshiri sacking him, how do you think that would reflect on Everton FC? Personally, while I don't think it would happen, I think it would be appalling.

Only puritanical whiter-than-white virgins / small-minded bigots  perhaps including the author of the above article  would be pleased.

Sam Allardyce has a much tougher job than his 3 predecessors due to:

(1) the current state of the team / squad (though the “one swallow makes a spring” brigade now believe Unsworth would have  on the flimsiest if evidence  rekindled the glory years).

(2) half the fan base are hostile (to a degree) against him which was far from the case with Moyes, Martinez, Koeman or Unsworth.

If they are to be believed from posts on here, much support has been withdrawn with season tickets ceremoniously doused in petrol and set alight while others stupidly preferring / advocating relegation rather than appoint him.

Give the man a chance.

Tommy Bowman 54Posted
30/11/2017 at
16:09:08

Last game of the season against West Ham, Everton mathematically safe, West Ham need a point. The dildo brothers call on their ex employee...

Allardyce puts out the youth team, a suit of armour and a fox Terrier to face West Ham...

A bank account in the Cayman Isles receives an unexpected deposit of £20 million.

Of course... no improper behaviour can be proven.

By the way, those of you who still have a fond regard for the FA Cup... forget it. Our new managers doesnt ‘do cups... they get in the way of his survival strategy.

So another season without a trophy it is then...

‘How the fuck did it come to this emails should be directed at bkenwright@boyspen.org.uk

Raymond Fox 55Posted
30/11/2017 at
16:25:32

What's going on about announcing Allardyce as manager!

They may be struggling to agree terms, it's dragging on somewhat.

It's going to be another cock up is it?

Michael Lynch 56Posted
30/11/2017 at
16:32:39

Jermaine Pennant and Ravel Morrison in the Sun? A scumbag talks to the scum about a scumbag, and you really want to cite that in evidence against Allardyce? Desperate, desperate stuff.

I really wish those who are planning to boycott everything to do with Everton while Sam is in charge would get on with it so I don't have to read their bitter ravings any more.

Grant Rorrison 57Posted
30/11/2017 at
16:37:03

Tommy 54. He took Bolton to both the semi-final of the FA Cup and League Cup in 2000. Then went to the final of the League Cup in 2004. He also made it to the semi-final of the League Cup in 2010 with Blackburn.

As most of the jobs he's ever had were about trying to save a struggling side from going down it's hardly surprising if the cups took a back seat.

Phil Bellis 58Posted
30/11/2017 at
16:42:17

Jay (51),

We looked very fragile when West Ham had a proper go at the start of the second half, giving the ball back to them at every opportunity.

I'm overjoyed with the win and how the dice eventually rolled, but felt we were one Pickford penalty save from hanging on for 2-2, against a desperately poor side

Confidence seems to be the key...

Lyndon Lloyd 59Posted
30/11/2017 at
16:56:18

Mike Hughes (53), I'm getting more than a little irritated at your throwing the word "bigot" around on this website, particularly in my direction.

By the definition of the word, you're insinuating that I am intolerant of other people's differing opinions which is nonsense. I don't agree with the appointment of Allardyce for the reasons outlined above; that's my prerogative and it's yours to disagree. I also provide you the forum to do so.

Moshiri et al have appointed Allardyce (although we await confirmation!) and if they were to turn around and sack him in 10 days' time it would, of course, be unconscionable and disrespectful so I would not be happy with it.

But if, come the end of the season, we're safe and he has done what the Board obviously hope they're guaranteeing by hiring him – namely safety – then, yes, I would be quite happy to move him on to get someone in with a higher ceiling of achievement, who is a better fit for Everton FC and get the "project" that was begun with Koeman back on track.

Stan Schofield 60Posted
30/11/2017 at
17:01:12

I'm not a supporter of Allardyce being here. I was hoping for a manager with a record of making teams hard to beat AND attractive flowing attacking football. I thought we'd get that in Koeman 18 months ago, but it wasn't to be. The appointment of Allardyce is disappointing with respect to the ambitions the board had expressed at the time Koeman arrived.

All that said, however, if Allardyce is now our manager, we need to get behind him. Because that's more likely to make us perform better on the pitch, which is what we want.

Football is not about Latin mottos, but the 60s was 'my decade', the time when Everton got into my blood. And by and large, we were truly great then, and it's no exagerration to say our football was beautiful, not all the time, but often enough to be significant. I'll never forget 68-69 in particular (although we didn't win a trophy that season) for the sheer artistry of our football. We had the best midfield in the world, the only other comparable being Brazil's.

All of that is real, it happened, and for me it gives life to the motto. However, it doesn't mean we can live up to that all the time, even beyond a fraction of the time. What team possibly could? And the motto is only a motto, it's not a recipe for playing football.

Mottos are for dreaming, for 'good intentions', but at the end of the day that's it. Actually achieving something, even with players like Ball, Harvey and Kendall, requires hard work, attention to detail, good organisation, and taking each game as it comes. If we have those ingredients, the talent of the players (and we do have very talented players in the squad) makes attractive football more likely. That likelihood is increased if the manager desires it.

This is the biggest gig that Allardyce has had. Probably the best squad of players, the best set of skills, at his disposal. He apparently feels the common criticism of him for yard dog football is unfair. In which case, there's a good chance he can use what he has at his disposal now, to set the record straight, to show he can actually manage a team attractively. And let's face it, he could hardly do much worse than what we saw under Koeman.

So let's forget about the motto, and focus on the attention to detail needed to get a side of talented players to function as a team. We might be pleasantly surprised. We might not, but there's only one way to find out.

Steve Ferns 61Posted
30/11/2017 at
17:08:48

Just got the notification that it's confirmed from Sky. Still nothing on the official site. This is very drawn-out and peculiar.

Anyone heard any rumours or seen anything on Twitter?

Dave Lynch 62Posted
30/11/2017 at
17:08:56

Anyone else have a funny feeling that not all is going to plan re Allardyce's contract negotiations?

Surely they would / should have announced him as manager by now?

Brent Stephens 63Posted
30/11/2017 at
17:12:20

Just to clarify, as my post #34 has been cited. I didn't, and don't, see Lyndon as being biased, and certainly not bigoted. I just thought terms like "unsophisticated" and "boorish" were a bit unfortunate and detracted form the overall strength of the piece.

Brian Williams 64Posted
30/11/2017 at
17:14:00

Lyndon (#59).

But if, come the end of the season, we're safe and he has done what the Board obviously hope they're guaranteeing by hiring him – namely safety – then, yes, I would be quite happy to move him on to get someone in with a higher ceiling of achievement,

I personally believe that's exactly what Moshiri intends to do. I think Moshiri has offered the shortest possible contract that Allardyce would accept and will happily pay up the remainder of that contract at the end of this season to get the manager he wants.

Do I think that will reflect badly on Everton? Far from it IMO. It would hopefully signal the little bit of ruthlessness that the club has needed for some considerable time.

Don Alexander 65Posted
30/11/2017 at
17:17:22

Well said, Lyndon (#59). Some contributors need to take a look at themselves before denigrating other fans and supporters on a personal level via TW.

Opinion is just that, opinion, not fact. Having the privilege we have in expressing it should not be taken for granted and, frankly, this site is notable in my opinion in having so much well-informed content, even when I don't agree with it!

Steve Ferns 66Posted
30/11/2017 at
17:17:38

Yes, Brian. You might be right. It looks like £6m for 18 months, rather than £6m a year. But the reality might be £6m for 6 months.

As for Lyndon being a bigot. What a load of crap. Just because some of us have strong feelings on Sam Allardyce as a man, that makes us bigots? Really?

Andrew Wayne 67Posted
30/11/2017 at
17:22:53

I am not wholly enamoured by the appointment of Allardyce but the assessment of Rhino's tenure by some is a little reductive. In my view, based upon games witnessed first hand, we have been very, very poor  even when a draw or a win has been scraped out. Straight after the break last night, we were the Creswell shot or the Penalty going in from doing a full Corporal Jones.

As I observed on a different thread, Goodison Park was starting to get a tad anxious until the brilliant penalty save and came back with a roar that seemed to stiffen the team's resolve again. It really could have gone badly against a better team and, as good as we were, overall West Ham were awful.

I think David Unsworth has done wonders with the hand he was dealt but I can't accept that it was just a matter of time for it all to come good. I am in the "something needed to be done" camp (call that a panic if you like) but there is still a lot of work to be done to get us organised and regularly putting out performances like last night against better teams which if Allardyce can do then that is fine by me. Huddersfield and the RedShite await  let's see how that goes under Allardyce as an interim progress report.

Tony Hill 68Posted
30/11/2017 at
17:24:22

Don (#65), and yet the courteous exchange of opinions, well-informed or otherwise, can be dreadfully dull, can't it? Or perhaps you disagree?

Steavey Buckley 69Posted
30/11/2017 at
17:44:07

Last night's match has turned into an anti-climax, because of the resounding victory. Did David Unsworth finally come to grips with an Everton squad that has many failings but has players who can make an impact?

Then there are players who will make an impact once they are fit and healthy, such as Barkley, Coleman, Bolasie and McCarthy.

Instead, will Big Sam go back to square one and make the same mistakes as Unsworth did until he becomes aware of them or will he take Everton to a better level? Time will only tell.

Colin Metcalfe 70Posted
30/11/2017 at
17:44:18

Great piece, Lyndon. I find myself in a bit of a conundrum where obviously like most of us on here are obsessed with all things Everton however in over 40 years of supporting the club I have never ever disapproved of an incoming manager so much.

Sam Allardyce is not a man of principle  fact  and not one person on here can deny that.I find it nauseating that people are willing to brush it under the carpet and say, "These things go on all the time, so now let's get behind Big Sam"!

The Liverpool Echo podcast description of the type of football Allardyce would bring to the table was "agricultural football" (whatever that means) but I think we all understand the meaning behind such a curious term, so the sort of football we all hope for won't be coming anytime soon... In fact, by-and-large I haven't enjoyed any of the football served up since Martinez left.

And so I find myself, like many others, desperately wanting the blues to do well and yet cannot stand the thought of Allardyce on £6M a year in charge of my team. I dislike the man and his brand of football.

Mike Gaynes 71Posted
30/11/2017 at
17:51:02

BBC reporting Sam has signed his deal: http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/42186164

Nothing yet on the club website.

Lyndon Lloyd 72Posted
30/11/2017 at
17:52:12

Just to clarify, as my post #34 has been cited. I didn't, and don't, see Lyndon as being biased, and certainly not bigoted. I just thought terms like "unsophisticated" and "boorish" were a bit unfortunate and detracted form the overall strength of the piece.

Brent, they were probably too emotive and, regretfully, came off as snobby but they were reflective of my feelings at the time and the point I was trying to make about the image Everton should be projecting to the world. The team's manager is a big part of that, in my opinion.

From the accusations of financial impropriety to the style of football he has employed, Allardyce is not an "Everton" personality for me. But, again, to want, however naïvely, the club to at least strive for NSNO, is my prerogative!

Daniel A Johnson 73Posted
30/11/2017 at
17:55:35

Nil Satis Nisi Optimum???

Dont make me laugh when since the 1980s has that actually meant anything? The fact people are now banging on about it because we have Sam Allardyce in charge just makes me chuckle.

We have been cut adrift for decades the ground is falling apart and our transfer deadline days have 99.9% of the time often been non events. Some fans really need to pull their head out of their backsides and see where we truly are…………nowhere.

The aging squad needs repairing from the ground up and the Hollywood style blank cheque book managers are light years away. Were a mid table club with pie in the sky ambition. Our recent splurge has been funded by selling our best players and replacing with cheaper inferior ones. Hardly the sign of a club with big ambition despite the so called Moshiri millions.

We all need a big Sam slice of realism. I will be supporting the guy. The football wont be tikka takka but it will be pragmatic organised and come with sweat and effort which is what wee need right now.

The Pep Guardiola style of football Man City are now playing has been funded by a £300M splurge on top of what was already a class squad. Were a million miles away from them.

“Nil Satis Nisi Optimum” more like “Lets Make Do and Get By”

Mike Hughes 74Posted
30/11/2017 at
18:06:02

Lyndon (#59),

Just to clarify, if you read my post I did not label you a "bigot". Using the word "perhaps" ensured I avoided that. There's a clear distinction. I don't know where else I've used it against you that justifies the "particularly in my direction" line.

Relative to the number of posts I have made on TW, I've used the word sparingly towards one or two other posters where I felt it was justified due to their (what I interpreted) as preconceived ideas and extremely prejudiced views on the pending new Everton manager. I've been called far worse on here.

For the record, I'm not the only one on this thread who found the tone / content of your article biased.

Why use phrases like "all the negatives around his footballing ethos"? These have been based on past scenarios where he has taken over struggling teams with little resources. He has had to cut his cloth accordingly and has generally been successful in doing so.

It's a different situation here regarding resources. The "struggling" element is why he was brought in. And have you been watching the crap served up by the last two managers  despite investment?

Nor is Sam Allardyce guilty of any crime as far as I am aware though some of the damning posts on TW are clearly defamatory in the extreme.

I doubt he's a saint. But who is?

This is the new manager of Everton FC. Everton FC chose him and apparently he's agreed to join. He didn't hold a gun to our head or hold us to ransom. It was an agreement between two parties.

I can't believe we've arrived at a situation where we've had to appoint him either  but we have, despite the massive investment.

If he's crap, I'll be on here like a shot  as I was with Martinez and Koeman (not Unsworth)  calling for change.

Blame regarding our current predicament lies firmly with Ronald Koeman, the board, and some of the players in my view. Both have got off lightly on here compared to Sam Allardyce.

As I wrote earlier on this thread, Allardyce appears to be the rat-catcher parked outside the house getting blamed  before entering  for the rats inside it.

As the manager of Everton FC, I think he deserves a chance rather than the facilitated slaughtering he's been getting on TW before he even starts.

I want NSNO as well and that's my view towards that.

Jay Harris 75Posted
30/11/2017 at
18:12:14

I think there is far too much emotion and not enough rationale being applied to this situation.

From all accounts:

1. We could not allow Koeman to continue.

2. We are led to believe (by the media) that we were turned down by Ancelotti, Simeone, Tuchel, Silva, Espirito Santo or whatever his name is and a number of other desirable managers.

3. Unsy was given a chance and after 2 consecutive and embarrassing drubbings was considered not to be the solution.

4. Allardyce was the only option in town and, while most of us have real concerns, we have to give him a chance and back him and the club.

5. Sammy Lee and Shakespeare are two experienced coaches who will help concentrate the minds of those who have been missing for most of the season.

6. Sam's alleged dirty deeds pale into insignificance compared to Billy Liar and yet we haven't run him out of town yet because he insists he is a True Blue.

We need a major rebuild and to heal the divisions within the club, players and fans; so, instead of carping, let's offer some support to the club we all love.

Brent Stephens 76Posted
30/11/2017 at
18:20:20

Lyndon (#72), I wouldn't argue with any of that. My initial comment wasn't being hyper-critical, I assure you. Just a minor comment on a minor point.

Gerard McKean 77Posted
30/11/2017 at
18:37:05

This is a well-crafted article. Sometimes I can applaud a well-written article that I don't agree with, but in this case I am totally in agreement with the writer's views.

I'm also in agreement with the likes of Steve Ferns and Christine Foster. As hard as it may be for some to accept, there were people like Christine and myself who thought Koeman a poor choice and who now find Allardyce an even worse one.

Koeman was the wrong man at the wrong time because of his intransigent and autocratic style of management, while Allardyce is just the wrong man for Everton Football Club at any time if we still believe that the club's figurehead should be a decent role model. These choices were ratified in a boardroom in which there is precious little understanding of football and none whatsoever of the values that should guide us as a club.

Like Steve, I'll continue to love the shirt and always want Everton to win but I get his point about being unable to provide financial support while Allardyce is there. With the man's history, how can we be confident of the motives for any transfer dealings? Is his son, Craig, still involved behind the scenes?

I actually took the decision to withdraw financial support a couple of years ago and I only get to away games nowadays. I supported EitC generously until I saw evidence that the tail was wagging the dog; primacy must be given to success on the pitch  EitC and everything else comes well after that.

The structure of payment at the club whereby staff bonuses are paid according to the position the team finishes is fine in principle but, when I heard one senior employee comment that coming 7th of 8th was about right because it meant a nice bonus without the hassle of having to get involved in European travelling the next season, I knew I had to put some distance between me and such charlatans. Allardyce may well feel more at home with such people for whom the money is the main motivation.

Jay Wood 78Posted
30/11/2017 at
18:42:25

Lyndon @ 72.

Good to see you acknowledge that your opening post was "probably too emotive and, regretfully, came off as snobby."

It's an emotive issue and this site in recent weeks has been a litmus test of wildly varying emotions.

For me, things get a bit wobbly in people's thinking when (rather like you) they express concern at "the image Everton should be projecting to the world."

You mention "the accusations of financial impropriety to the style of football he has employed", concluding that Allardyce is not an 'Everton' personality for you.

My confusion is why are so many applying this random criteria now against Sam Allardyce, given the long history of the club custodians?

To crib from an earlier post I wrote, he has never been charged or convicted in a court of law, let alone by the FA, the governing body of football in England.

Sir John Moores was prosecuted in the early days of his Littlewood football pool betting business. There is a long-established link between gambling and its negative social impact on (often) low income families. I don't recall any outraged moral indignation against this association when he was funding the 'Everton millionaires' in the 60s.

Similarly, we have had and continue to have countless sponsorship deals with breweries and betting firms when alcohol consumption and gambling clearly has negative impact on many individuals, homes and families.

In more recent years, we have learnt the odious Philip Green, he of the collapsed BHS business and siphoning off the pension funds of thousands of people, was a shadow director helping to prop up Bill Kenwright all these years.

Isn't THAT more worthy of taking a moral and ethical stand regarding your support of Everton FC, rather than the appointment of an innocent man?

And what of the current incumbent and de facto owner of the club, Moshiri, and his association with Usmanov. Are dissenters not just a teeny weeny bit queasy or inquisitive as to how Usmanov (and Moshiri) built their fortunes on the back of the collapse of the Soviet Union?

All the above examples, it can be reasonably argued, impacted far more negatively on many more real world lives than any offence Sam Allardyce's 'alleged' crimes could ever do.

I 'get' why people are being emotional about this. But there has been an awful lot of what I consider misplaced posturing and grandstanding by some over Allardyce's appointment.

Your post will resonate with many on here, of that I've no doubt. But it didn't do it for me.

Lyndon Lloyd 79Posted
30/11/2017 at
19:00:02

Mike (74), the other reference to bigot I saw from you was in my match report article where I referenced Allardyce . That, combined with the fact that the word "perhaps" by its very nature doesn't represent a "clear distinction" is why I felt you were levelling the accusation of bigotry against me. Regardless, let's draw a line under it.

Jay (78), if we had an hour or two in the pub, we could probably get into a long discussion about the scope of all these grey areas, the passage of time and institutions'/people's need/ability to strive to be and do better, and where we would draw our personal lines over what we're prepared to accept! Suffice it to say, you make some good points.

Christine Foster 80Posted
30/11/2017 at
20:45:56

Gerard (#77), Moshiri has settled to cut his losses and protect his investment based on the experience of Sam Allardyce. You cannot blame him for that and frankly right now I am more worried about the upcoming fixtures post Christmas and a replay of the start of the season which would leave us in the relegation zone.

For that reason I can understand why Allardyce was appointed and rather begrudgingly think it is the right choice given the current situation.

Don't get me wrong, I am not thrilled by it, far from it, but I understand the logic.

Ethically, blimey, to be honest I think Everton have sailed close to the wind over the years ethically, and if you believe the Paradise papers, still do..

I think he is here to do a job short term, if he does well I think he will be offloaded at the end of the season, if he doesn't do well, he will still be off loaded at the end of the season!

This season may well be a write off (FA Cup excluded) but if we finish 7th I think we may yet still get the manager we deserve.

The dream is not over, just a pothole in the road we have to go round.

Christine Foster 81Posted
30/11/2017 at
20:49:40

BTW, Moshiri doing the welcome bits on TV, and footage last night with Allardyce etc.. no sign of Bill Kenwright, anyone wondering why he is taking the lead and not our media loving chairman? Conspicuous by his absence? Most odd...

Dick Fearon 82Posted
30/11/2017 at
21:02:18

With the appointment of Biggus Sammus and our own Lyndon going all classical Latin, may this ex Malachy's lad be the first to wish all Toffees a great Obla Dee Obla Da Xmas.

Pete Clarke 83Posted
30/11/2017 at
22:41:09

Mike at 53. Lyndon is correct in that you throw the 'bigot' word around a little too lightly so ease off a little. This is a forum for Evertonians to chat and let off steam.

Going back to my short article which of course was tongue in cheek. It ain't going to happen but I was trying to show the helter skelter of emotions that we have been going through for the past few years as blues.

We have what I consider a clueless band of leaders and some equally clueless players. The club needs a big shake up but like the rest of you I will be going along for the ride.

Mike Hughes 84Posted
30/11/2017 at
22:55:13

Pete #83

Lyndon is correct in that you throw the 'bigot' word around a little too lightly so ease off a little. This is a forum for Evertonians to chat and let off steam.

I was letting off steam in using that word. Because that's how I saw it as explained in my response. And I did not "throw the word around lightly".As stated, I used it sparingly.

I've been on TW for years and read the good, bad and ugly. This week has been mainly ugly.

As stated, it was not specifically directed at Lyndon but more broadly towards some of the ridiculous drama-queen OTT statements on here this week as well as the overall lynch-mob tone against a man who hasn't even managed one game for us yet.

If people can let off steam against Allardyce's appointment, I am going to let off steam if I think it is unfair treatment.

Lyndon drew a line under it.Do the same, Pete.Starting now.

Pete Clarke 85Posted
30/11/2017 at
23:44:11

Done.

Phil Lewis 86Posted
30/11/2017 at
00:23:43

When Allardyce became England's manager I was utterly flabbergasted. I rejoiced at the discovery of his skulduggery and what I believed would be his subsequent demise.

In years gone by I imagine that would have been the last the football world would have heard of him and good riddance. But hey, if an American President can have a history of umpteen bankruptcies, then seemingly 'shame' has no boundaries these days.

I feel positively nauseous at his Everton appointment. I can see no saving graces with the man, footballing or otherwise. He was a dog of a player, with managerial skills and a personality to match.

Until I am convinced to the contrary, I fear that this is the beginning of the end, of everything that Everton Football Club has always stood for. I firmly believe that Sam the Spiv, is about to take us on 'The Road To Nowhere'. (With apologies to Talking Heads!)

Pete Clarke 87Posted
01/12/2017 at
01:00:05

The only decent memory of Allardyce for me is when he came out of the players entrance at Goodison in the late 70,s in the league cup Semi Final and gave two tickets to me and my mate. Enjoyed that of course and didn't really care too much about what he did in his career.

However, I hope for the next 25 games he can not only win us enough games to stay up but somehow utilise this squad to play some kind of football we can enjoy.

Not holding my breath but we will see.

John Gall 88Posted
01/12/2017 at
10:14:11

This whole thing with Allardyce has come about purely due to the absurd hysterical hype in the modern game.

I was always impressed the way Everton seemed to rise above most of the crap, rarely sacking managers for example, conducting most of our business with more style than we've been seeing on the pitch. But Mr Moshiri is one of the new type of owners, out of sync with the old football culture which Everton has been so associated with.

So we're having a crappy season, we've bought a bunch of duds, big deal  seen it all before, that's football. But it was only November, a third of the way through the season. We win one game and jump up 5 places. Our world class talisman, the local genius comes home, scores a hat-trick. The ship stabilises instantly.

Yet look up in the Main Stand  who do we spy? No surely it can't have happened , it can't be that dodgy old fart, that ultimate symbol of all that is bent, cynical and ugly in British football  Fat Sam? Who, in yet another act of crass mismanagement, has been given £6M a year to manage this great old club.

Mr Moshiri may have the cash but he hasn't got a clue. Our club is as mismanaged now as it was under Peter Johnson. We all got bored with Moyes because we were treading water, we wanted glamour, and style, and Nil Satis School of Science stuff.

Well folks we're back with another manager in that mould  scrape out results, big striker, grab a goal then all behind the ball. It'll work for a while, and the fans will get to like Sam, but expect it to grate really quickly.

Talk to West Ham fans  they despise him, his football stank the place out. Everton is a big city club with big support and great history  we should be reaching for the stars, not lavishing riches on a modern day gangster.

Nicholas Ryan 89Posted
01/12/2017 at
13:57:13

I'm a great believer in hiring people who have something to prove. 'Fireman Sam' desperately wants to show that he could 'cut it' with a big team, towards the top of the Premier League. He won't be lacking for motivation.

Jay Wood 90Posted
01/12/2017 at
17:09:55

Lyndon @ 79.

Sorry Lyndon! Only now caught up with this thread and your message to me in your post.

I doubt two hours, let alone one, over a bevy or three wouldn't cover it Lyndon! It would be a pleasure to sup ale talking all things Everton with you.

Who knows. Maybe one day, eh?

PS - I'm preparing for another wave of indignation as more of Sam's appointments are confirmed with 'Red' associations, including Sammy Lee and Ryland Morgans, whilst overlooking many much loved greats who wore the colours of both teams such as Morrisey, Hickson, Sheedy, etc, etc.

More wacky logic, IMO.

John Keating 91Posted
01/12/2017 at
18:44:01

Since Allardyce was quoted being in for the job we've had an untold number of posts against his appointment

This article should just be filed in them. Another doom and gloom piece.

The only difference I can see in this piece is there is no mention of a season ticket burning or a never cross the threshold of Goodison until he leaves.

Personally I am only interested in us staying up this season and whatever it takes and whoever is in charge is fine by me.

My team were the 63 team and the so called School of Science was only an earlier version of the People's Club. Sounds good to fellow supporters but apart from that well ther's not been too many periods of free flowing school of science people club stuff since has there.

I will be there again tomorrow supporting my team and I bet there won't be many empty seats there in protest. If there are some empty in protest of Allardyces appointment I would ask the owners of those seats to give them to some youngsters who would be made up to see the Blues.

Your loss will be their gain.

Andy Meighan 92Posted
01/12/2017 at
21:16:13

Mike Hughes, (#6) Brilliantly put.

And John Boon  What an achievement! Been going since 1947. Is there actually an older Evertonian out there??? Keep it going, John!

Tony Abrahams 93Posted
01/12/2017 at
21:32:50

I must be going soft Jay, because Ive just been arguing with some fella, over Sammy Lee. Im glad to have such a coach at Everton, and he is an obvious step up to what we have had for years, but according to this fella, Sammy fuckin Lee, fuckin drinks his own fuckin piss.

He said there will be banners at Goodison tomorrow against our new assistant, but I feel this is a great appointment, and think that we are now turning a lot more professional, because the standard of the coaching will surely improve with Lee and Shakespeare?

Does anyone know What Duncan Fergusons role going to be now?

Peter Gorman 94Posted
01/12/2017 at
22:35:16

I couldn't give a tinker's cuss over Sammy Lee being a red, I am more worried about him being corrupt.

I feel nothing about Sam Allardyce that I don't feel about Cuco Martina  just this nagging feeling that the club is so much better than that.

As for the man in charge; if he can beat Liverpool I'll keep an open mind. Otherwise, like the last fat head (emotive language check) Ronald who came before him, I doubt very much he is the one to 'break into the top 4'. Suppose nobody running the club really cares about that anymore.

Tony Marsh 95Posted
01/12/2017 at
22:58:00

This article is a cowardly attack on Sam Allardyce filled with sentimental nonsense. What is the School of Science? A name given to Everton FC nearly 60 years ago. Nil Satis is also a joke so why go on about these mottos as if we have been playing like Barcelona the past 5 decades.

Sammy Lee played for Liverpool over 30 years ago. So what?! Sammy is a renowned top coach with a wealth of experience behind him. Lyndon did you whinge when Sheedy played in the Everton side that lifted trophies? How about Peter Beardsley scoring in a Derby? Gary Ablett helped us win our last trophy. Did you despite Gary as much as you do Sammy Lee? No you don't because it is this Allardyce situation. You don't like Sammy Lee; is just a stick to beat Sam with.

As for corruption please stop being so righteous. If you were that worried about corruption in football you would walk away from it right now. The whole game is rife with corruption top to bottom. The Premier League is build on dodgey money from dodgey owners. Don't get me started dodgy agents, Blatter, Platini, our very own Kieth Wyness etc.

I thought you were a knowledgeable man, Lyndon? Perhaps you are but you detest Allardyce so much you have to write like a fool. Give it a rest and give Allardyce a chance. We've all made mistakes in the past. Leave them there.

Lyndon Lloyd 96Posted
02/12/2017 at
01:39:51

Tony (92): "This article is a cowardly attack..."

I'm going to gloss over the rich irony here and simply address a couple of your points.

1) Sammy Lee is, by many accounts, a very nice fella and, having never met him, I have nothing against him at all. My point in bringing him up, though, was that Allardyce has gone where even Ronald "Red Christmas Decorations" Koeman didn't dare out of respect for Everton in bringing in an ex-Liverpool player who was despised by Blues as a player.

2) I don't detest Sam Allardyce. Again, I've never met him and I'm sure he's an entertaining bloke to have a pint with but there is no question that as appointments go for a (supposedly!) top-four chasing team and our history, he is a massively underwhelming hire. Furthermore, the financial improprieties alleged in that Telegraph sting were enough to get him fired by the FA so why should we not have the same standards?

3) Finally, the School of Science and NSNO are aspirational; they're our yardstick and should guide our principals and desired style of play. Just because we haven't come close for most of the time they've been attached to the club doesn't mean we shouldn't continue to strive to match them.

Frankly, for someone who has caused as much controversy as you have attacking long-time Everton figures on these pages, I find your rabid defence of a man who has only just stepped across the threshold to be galling in the extreme. Or were those the mistakes you wanted to leave in the past?

Eric Myles 97Posted
02/12/2017 at
03:31:11

Lyndon (#96), you refer to the alleged financial improprieties but it was reported by the same rag carrying out the 'sting', that Allardyce stated he would have to clear his offered position as a consultant with the FA. That hardly implies he was going to do something behind their back.

What pissed the FA off and made his position untenable was Allardyce stating there are many loopholes in the third party ownership rules that are being exploited. That was highly embarrassing to the FA.

David Barks 98Posted
02/12/2017 at
03:52:02

Eric,

Come on now. Dont be that guy. The FA wouldnt not have gotten rid after one match and Allardyce wouldnt not have accepted such action if the issue was not legit. Honestly, this was journalism doing undercover reporting and nothing about their investigation has ever been proven to be untrue.

Darren Hind 99Posted
02/12/2017 at
05:21:56

John Keating

You seem to be cropping up everywhere peddling this nonsense about "untold numbers" ... where are all these people who have come on here and said they will burn their season tickets? Was it just 1 or 2 people venting? or did you make up this "untold number" of disloyal malcontents in an attempt to portray yourself as a "true fan, who will be there come what may"?

Lyndon Lloyd wouldn't have the "local view" of Sammy Lee the man, and he admits as much... but this article is bang on the money. More to the point, it needed to be written.

There are quite literally thousands of Evertonians with serious reservations about this appointment, every single one of them could give you a very good reason as to why, and as Lyndon illustrates, not all of them will give you the same reason.

Please spare us these silly holier-than-thou posts. There is a large percentage of the fan base who wouldn't trust this board as far as they could throw them. Unlike you, they will not unconditionally support their latest selection before he has done a bleeding thing.

Even on the day of his appointment, 52% of people didn't want Allardyce here, according to a TW poll. That's a shocking statistic.

You want to give unconditional support to this guy? Fair enough... but, whether you like it or not, there will be tens of thousands of regular match goers who will need a whole lot of convincing, many many more scattered all around the world.

My colours are nailed. I didn't want him, but like thousands of others I'll soon change my tune if he starts entertaining me and giving me a little success.

Welcome to the big time, Sam. You have always maintained that you deserve a top job. Prove it and they will love you... But bear in mind; This is not the northeast, Nor is it Crystal Palace, or Bolton. There may be a few who will happily clap you before you before a ball is kicked, but people round here tend to put their club before any manager and for you to gain acceptance and trust, you will need to do an awful lot better than you have managed so far in your career.

Kieran Fitzgerald 100Posted
02/12/2017 at
08:11:18

Any outrage we are feeling now is because we are looking in from the outside. The people who are usually upset the most are the ones without any say in the matter, the fans. Did Sunderland fans deserve what has happened to them over the last couple of seasons? Do Palace fans deserve what has happened to them over the last couple of seasons? Roy Hodgson as Everton boss, anyone?

The thing is, as fans, we have to accept that we find our club in the position where we need a Sam Allardyce. Anybody more palatable that we wanted simply wasn't available.

We might not like it, we don't have to like it... but, for now, we have to suck it up. What would you prefer to do as an Everton fan? Walk away, ignore the club, not support the team, just because you don't like the manager? As much as I would like to at times, I can't... It's not in me to do it, I just can't.

We can continue to moan and wallow in our misery or we can do our best to support the club.

Peter Gorman 101Posted
02/12/2017 at
08:34:54

I am sure it is easy to scoff at our club's motto and heritage but why go as far back as that? When the often-derided nearly man Moyes left the club, the opportunity was golden to capitalise on a great platform and restore the club to greatness.

It would be easy to pick on Darren Hind, as it is a matter of record, but it is fair to say thousands, if not a majority of people here on TW were unconvinced first by Martinez and then by Koeman, and in the fullness of time they've been proven correct.

Now we add Allardyce to the list. I'm sure he has his virtues, I recall him punching above Bolton's weight but never above Moyes's. So that leaves us no closer to breaking into the top 4 than before .(Even though the fact we are a 'bigger club' than Bolton works in his favour when the club's history and aspirations are mocked in the same breath. Go figure.)

I am sure Sam is better than Koeman, who isn't? But I had hoped we still aspired for more. Some fans haven't lost sight of what this club was and could have been, upon the departure of Moyes.

Darren Hind 102Posted
02/12/2017 at
10:42:44

You do make me laugh, Peter.

"It would be easy to pick on Darren Hind as a matter of record"

Knock yourself out mate. You've already tried by giving us Sam's history in the Irish League and at massive clubs like Notts County – where you skirted around the issue of him getting relegated. Managers don't get judged on such issues. If you are going to manage a Premier League club, doing okay at minor clubs will not impress anybody. They will judge you on your top-flight experience.

I would love to see you back up the claim that the majority on here were against Koeman. It took over a year for the tide to turn.

Paul Tran 103Posted
02/12/2017 at
11:09:42

Why do we have to have these binary arguments? Do we really have to love/hate Allardyce? Does looking at the positives have to make you a 'happy clapper'?

My money said we weren't getting relegated ten days ago. We didn't need a saviour. We need someone with authority and strong, clear communication skills. The last two guys didn't have these, Allardyce fits the bill on those fronts. What tends to happen after he 'saves' teams is that they get a 'better' manager that goes wrong. Or he gets pushed out of Newcastle for not being Ashley's man, or leaves for the England job.

This is his first & last chance at a big club with money and ambition. He thinks he's earned that chance, we'll see if he's as good as he thinks he is. I like the fact that he's brought a proven coach with him, regardless of background, something Koeman bottled out of and suffered for. I'm comfortable with his relationship with Walsh, which should make for a smoother transfer policy.

I'm staying open-minded and I'll judge him on what happens on the pitch and in the transfer market.

Andrew Cunningham 104Posted
02/12/2017 at
13:00:41

This is a very emotional time for Evertonians. I was not in favour of Allardyce's appointment but it has happened and so we have to accept it and get on with it. If we can win today and then beat the Red Shite next week, I think even the most hardened anti-Allardyce blues might turn their heads. Lose both and the shit will hit the fan.

I really hope this team can lift because the blue fans deserve a lot of respect for putting up with so much crap for far too long. I would also like to thank the administrators for allowing fans to speak their minds on this site.

Peter Gorman 105Posted
02/12/2017 at
21:56:39

Darren, you misunderstood me.

I was 'picking on' you (admittedly a poor choice of words) as an example of somebody who nailed their convictions to the mast early on and got it right - it is on record.

I agreed with you but wasn't as vociferous as I should have been. It is fair to say you have been vindicated of late.

As for Koeman  I'd cite the TW poll which made him the choice of a mere 18% of fans to succeed Martinez. I'm also probably allowing my association with so many fans outside of TW that didn't rate him to cloud my judgment.

And for defending Sam's record  I didn't quite read the context of the point you were making on the other thread so thought you were making a mere factual error. I thought his record at Bolton was pretty good (though never better than Moyes).

My point in a nutshell; people would do well to follow your lead and reserve judgment on Allardyce and any manager that succeeds him until they demonstrate that they are worthy of our club.

Eric Myles 106Posted
03/12/2017 at
01:04:22

David #98, but their 'investigation' didn't really say anything beyond, Allardyce was prepared to act as consultant for a company, after clearing it with the FA.

And naming a bunch of agents that get around 3rd party ownership rules.

They just dressed it up with a sensationalised headline.

John Keating 107Posted
03/12/2017 at
01:42:15

Darren Hind,

I am not a Sam Allardyce supporter by any means.

I am a supporter of Everton Football Club and am prepared unlike you to give anyone employed by the Club the respect they deserve.

In the perfect world, Sam Allardyce would never have been quoted as our manager but, due to the gross negligence of the board, in my opinion, we had no alternative than to go to him.

You and a number of other posters have from day one vilified the man, continually harping on about his past and the fact we are to good to employ the likes of him. Maybe you are right; personally I think you are not.

I just want to give him or anyone else the chance to show what they can do. It's not so long ago people were wanting Niasse out now we hear he should be first on the team sheet.

Everyone deserves a chance; unfortunately, you don't want to give Allardyce that chance. What a star.

Darren Hind 108Posted
03/12/2017 at
05:03:46

John,

You seem to believe that all who disagree with you must be of the same opinion. You read the posts of a few people, then you start talking about untold numbers. It doesn't work like that.

You will not find a post from me vilifying Sam Allardyce for stuff that happened off the pitch. Such is my ignorance and indifference to anything to do with the England set up, I don't even know the full ins and outs of what he is supposed to have done.

My problem is this. I have been criticising and ridiculing Sam Allardyce since he was employing Kevin Davies as a battering ram. I am a purist. I eat my fucking heart out craving to see the beautiful game played Beautifully at Goodison Park.

When I close my eyes and try to recall all the good football we have played in the past 30 years, all I can see is brief flashes from Pienaar, Baines, Arteta and Ossie... and I can't bring myself to believe Moyes planned that either. He was so dour, every logical bone in my body leads me to believe he stumbled across some of those wonderful combinations..

Every time we get rid of a manager, my fucking heart leaps in anticipation. I sit on sites like this for at least half of my waking hours, I'm watching Sky Sports News, and I have a radio going on in the background,

My Mrs keeps speaking to me, but I have no idea what she's saying... All the while desperate to hear we have appointed an exciting innovative new coach who will have us all enthralled with his ideas and imagination... Then they wheel out the latest duffer.

I couldn't disagree more with your assessment of the situation, John. People haven't just started disliking Sam Allardyce from "day one" at Everton. They have always ridiculed his crude approach to football and Money. His appointment would have been many an Evertonian's worst nightmare.

The Wigan supporters used to have a really funny song about Emile Heskey, it was around about the time when he was seemingly everybody's figure of fun. The striker who forgot how to score... Having savaged him like everyone else, he was now their player. They had to come up with something.

"There's only one Emile Heskey, One Emile Heskey">"He used to be shite, but now he's alright""Walking in a Heskey wonderland"

I feel heartily sickened by a section of the Everton fan base at the moment. They want to claim they are all positive and upbeat, just as they did throughout Koeman's reign, but, when the had the chance to show how positive they are and support one of their own, they condemned and dismissed him throughout the five weeks he was in charge.

They want people to give the latest mercenary a chance, but when one of their own was stepping up to the plate, they couldn't condemn him quickly enough. They screamed blue murder when he was beaten in a dead rubber, but like you, they will be screaming for patience and understanding when Sam sends his team over to Anfield to dig the trenches the night before the up-coming derby.

I was pleased with the win yesterday, but I was also pleased to see the staggeringly ungracious claims that Allardyce (not Unsworth) had inspired the troops on Wednesday.

Allardyce had spent an hour trying to inspire his players yesterday, but they came out the traps like one-legged tortoise pulling caravans. Never have I seen such a lifeless performance from a group of players who, we are told were "desperate to impress the new manager".

Of course, these self proclaimed positives will continue to try to peddle their foolish ideas, but the stupidity of it was laid absolutely bare yesterday and the only inspiration we saw yesterday came from Calvert-Lewin's back-heel.

Those you condemn for not welcoming Sam Allardyce will still be going to the match and following on their PCs. They have very little option but to give the latest appointment time, but their unconditional love for the club will not stretch as far as the guy who has carved out a career strangling the life out of football matches.

His methods are deeply unpopular. The faux claims from the easily pleased on the matchday thread telling us they were really "excited" by yesterday's performance wont wash... but we are stuck with him and once again we find ourselves praying for the leopard to change its spots.

"There's only one Big Sam, One Big Sam. ,br>He used to be shite, but now... "At least the Wigan fans were joking.

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