Think how difficult it must be to do jury duty in the first place. It's a bit like being thrown in the deep end of the pool and told you either sink or swim. The failure is more systemic than anything else; it isn't really fair to have a go at the people who get called for jury duty, after all it's not like they asked to be there.

Wow. You usually don't see the guy that got fucked by a jury standing up for them. I wish I knew you in person Chris, because everything I've read from and about you has really shown that you've got a lot of character. Kudos to you.

"Have you ever been fucked in the ass? because if you have you will understand why we have that philosophy" - Alyrium Denryle, on HAB's policy of "Too much is almost enough"

Think how difficult it must be to do jury duty in the first place. It's a bit like being thrown in the deep end of the pool and told you either sink or swim. The failure is more systemic than anything else; it isn't really fair to have a go at the people who get called for jury duty, after all it's not like they asked to be there.

Wow. You usually don't see the guy that got fucked by a jury standing up for them. I wish I knew you in person Chris, because everything I've read from and about you has really shown that you've got a lot of character. Kudos to you.

Oh I'm not sticking up for the jury system, I'm just being fair: the fact is, you don't who you get on a jury, and you don't know what goes on inside the jury room. The only thing you can hope for is a jury who is either sympathetic towards you or intellectually honest and objective enough that if they're not sympathetic they can at least reach the right decision ('right' relative to you, I suppose).

The problem usually lies in that the vast majority of people who do jury duty have never been in that kind of situation before, it's an alien environment full of arcane rituals (at least here, the principal protagonists wear robes and wigs, the accused sits in the dock isolated from everyone, the courtroom is austere and impressive, there's a quiet, respectful sort of mood a bit like how I imagine Church must be, you have to stand when the judge enters or leaves etc), and they're not really given any sort of time to acclimatise themselves to the environment before people start telling them to pay attention.

At least here, whenever an objection is made, the jury must be sent out the courtroom because they can't take part in the legal arguments. Maybe some juries resent that - they might feel they're being treated like they're morons. At the end, the judge starts summing up the cases that have been put forward and starts giving legal directions - from my observations at trial, this is a lengthy process and at times it is difficult to maintain your attention. And I'm not an idiot, so if at several points I'm finding it difficult to follow what the judge is talking about, how must the jury feel? So the problem, I believe, seems to be systemic; the atmosphere might need to change, the procedures might need to change, the complicated legalese might need simplifying, who knows.

People are also busier these days as well. So they may not have their minds on the matter 100%, they might be thinking about other things. No way to know that, no way to prevent it; when it comes to juries, you're effectively dealing with the unknown. You take it on faith that they will stick to their vows to do their job, and you have no idea whether they do or don't. Which is scary.

I'm not saying scrap the system, I guess I just want things to be done smarter. Ideally, in a perfect world, if you could have a choice between jury and judge I would pick judge. But even there, you have good judges and bad judges. But I suppose at least you know who you're getting.

Actually, every cell in prison has a shower and toilet installed in it, so there aren't any of those communal showers you see in prison movies or shows like the Oz.

Oh, okay. I wasn't sure if I could make a crack about it... oh, sorry!

Something about Libertarianism always bothered me. Then one day, I realized what it was:Libertarian philosophy can be boiled down to the phrase, "Work Will Make You Free."

In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around!If all you want to do is have some harmless, mindless fun, go H3RE INST3ADZ0RZ!!Grrr! Fight my Brute, you pansy!

It sounds like the idea of "professional juries" might be worth a look. People who are paid to serve on juries; more than likely with all sorts of restrictions on their ability to communicate about cases they're on... a confidentiality agreement for the period of time they are serving in that field.

Something about Libertarianism always bothered me. Then one day, I realized what it was:Libertarian philosophy can be boiled down to the phrase, "Work Will Make You Free."

In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around!If all you want to do is have some harmless, mindless fun, go H3RE INST3ADZ0RZ!!Grrr! Fight my Brute, you pansy!

Well, I do understand about the environment and procedures, but I think it's a mistake to leave the jurors completely unaccountable. Heck, having some accountability should motivate them to pay more attention and want to get it right. What's a juror's motivation to do their job right when there will be absolutely no consequences if they don't?

That's not to say that juries and jurors don't do their job - it's just some people either don't deserve to serve on a jury, or need to be made to care about what they're doing...

Anyway, this could spiral into various reasons and I don't want to derail it from your congratulations.

Though we are not now that strength which in old daysMoved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are,--One equal temper of heroic hearts,Made weak by time and fate, but strong in willTo strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

It sounds like the idea of "professional juries" might be worth a look. People who are paid to serve on juries; more than likely with all sorts of restrictions on their ability to communicate about cases they're on... a confidentiality agreement for the period of time they are serving in that field.

I think that such a system is implemented in Finland, although the jury's importance isn't that great here. There's no jury in administrative courts and in some criminal and civil cases there isn't one, as well. Of course, the legal tradition of Finland is considerably different from those of the former dominions of the British Empire.

And in other news, congratulations to you Stofsk for your well-deserved release.

Holy crap! Apparently l'm a bit late to the party, but what amazing news!!! CONGRATS, Stofsk!!! This is fantastic!!!!!!

"On the infrequent occasions when I have been called upon in a formal place to play the bongo drums, the introducer never seems to find it necessary to mention that I also do theoretical physics." -Richard Feynman

I have to say, it's quite amazing how the simple thing of seeing your avatar again, and knowing the story behind it, has brightened my day. Welcome back Stofsk!

Vendetta wrote:

Richard Gatling was a pioneer in US national healthcare. On discovering that most soldiers during the American Civil War were dying of disease rather than gunshots, he turned his mind to, rather than providing better sanitary conditions and medical care for troops, creating a machine to make sure they got shot faster.

Joined: 2008-03-02 08:56pmPosts: 816Location: On a beach beating Gackt to death with a parasol

Well it has to be said you've come out of this far more balanced than I would. I, frankly, would be a gibbering mess regardless of what kind of support I received. Though it may mean little, you have my admiration, sir.

If I had something interesting, profound or incredibly stupid to say, it would go here.

I'm always glad to see thoughful and intelligent people sharing their thoughst, so it's really good that you;re back in a position to do so.

Given the respective degrees of vulnerability to mental and physical force, annoying the powers of chaos to the point where they try openly to kill them all rather than subvert them is probably a sound survival strategy under the circumstances. -Eleventh Century Remnant

Counsel, who appears on behalf of the Crown accepted, with commendable directness, that the jury verdict in this case was indeed troublesome, and that there was a serious question to be determined in this regard

The final paragraph:-

Quote:

After careful consideration of the evidence in this matter, the Court has concluded that it was simply not capable of supporting the inference of the guilt of the applicant beyond reasonable doubt.

I now realize that I have not welcomed Stofsk back. I will correct this now:

Congrats, and don't forget to have some cake!

Darth Wong on Strollers vs. Assholes: "There were days when I wished that my stroller had weapons on it."wilfulton on Bible genetics: "If two screaming lunatics copulate in front of another screaming lunatic, the result will be yet another screaming lunatic. "SirNitram: "The nation of France is a theory, not a fact. It should therefore be approached with an open mind, and critically debated and considered."

Damn, I know I'm late welcoming Chris back.I might have just joined, but I've been hovering around as a lurker since at least 2004, so I heard off & on about this.Man deserves a free six-pack of beer for every hour they had him behind bars, the original prosecution losing two hours pay (minimum, as I'm trying hard not to get snarly at them) for every hour he was behind bars, and a host of other toys to play with now that he's free. You might not be able to sue, but by god I'd make it into a media frenzy about how badly the prosecutors screwed up, and get reporters involved that would hound the hell out of the cops/prosecutors until they got off their asses and did something about actually solving the case & getting Chris some well deserved compensation. If its anything like the States, reporters -love- digging into things like this and raising hell.

Still though in the end, Chris - fuck yeah you're free. Enjoy the open sky, family & friends at your side, and drink down a cold one.

Macross Daedalus Attack: Because nothing says "Frak You" like punching them in the face with an aircraft carrier.Macross Frontier Version: Unless you use 2 aircraft carriers.☟ Named after a g/f! Sheesh, stop asking. ☟

Congradulations! I have lurked for some time now, and wouldn't you know it I get my computer fixed (as it was broken for a few weeks), and just so happen to check to see how your case was progressing, and here I see you are out! I'm happy that you are finally able to be with your friends and family again.

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