[In English] There is a correction: four people from her transport were sent to Poland, and one returned of these four, a younger person.

David Boder

This concludes the interview with Miss Hildegardeâ [correction] with Mrs. Hildegarde Franz, age seventy-five, born in Nuremberg, or who lived in Nuremberg in a mixed marriage with a Christian husband, and who after his death was sent to Theresienstadt. She is now in the UNRRA camp at Funkenkasernen in Munich. And the 24th of this monthâthat means in four daysâBremen, and from Bremen sailing to the United States to her son in Newark, and to the other one in Colorado. This concludes the interview with Miss [Mrs.] Hildegarde Franz at twenty minutes of the spool. An Illinois Institute of Technology wire recording.

var english_translation = {
interview: [ David Boder

[In English] MÃnchen, September the 20th, 1946, at Funkenkasernen, a camp for transient displaced people [such who are ready to leave for overseas in the more or less near future]. I have here before me Mrs. Hildegarde Franz who is expecting to go to the United States.

David Boder

[In German] Now, Mrs. Franz, please turn around, make yourself comfortable. You will be warm. Take off your coat. [Speak] in this direction. Right?

Hildegarde Franz

Yes.

David Boder

Now, Mrs. Franz, will you tell me again, what is your full name?

Hildegarde Franz

Hildegarde Franz.

David Boder

How old are you, if one may know?

Hildegarde Franz

Seventy-five years old.

David Boder

[surprised] No-o-o!

Hildegarde Franz

Yes.

David Boder

That is impossible. You look so young [and that was indeed so].

Hildegarde Franz

Yes. I am.

David Boder

You are seventy-five years old?

Hildegarde Franz

[in a soft, fading voice] Yes, yes, yes, yes.

David Boder

Now then, Mrs. Franz, will you be so kind and tell me where you were when the war started?

Hildegarde Franz

My . . .

David Boder

And then what happened to you afterwards until now.

Hildegarde Franz

I was in Nuremberg. With my sons and my husband we were working with my relatives at Schloss Ardien [?] near Nuremberg, in a "ready to wear" [business].

David Boder

Yes.

Hildegarde Franz

And in the '34 we were compelled to sell the business since we were Jews, no?

David Boder

Already so far back, '34?

Hildegarde Franz

'34.

David Boder

Now, Hitler was elected when?

Hildegarde Franz

In '33.

David Boder

Yes, if one figures that way. He came to power in '33.

Hildegarde Franz

Yes, yes.

David Boder

And in '34 you were compelled . . .

Hildegarde Franz

We were compelled to sell our business for certain reasons, because our employees were completely of National Socialist [Nazi] orientation and reported every customer who purchased from us to the Braunhaus [Nazi headquarters], so that the people . . .

David Boder

Withdrew? [German word order does not permit verbatim translation of this sentence].

Hildegarde Franz

. . . withdrew their patronage. They were afraid to buy from us.

David Boder

What kind of a business did you say it was?

Hildegarde Franz

"Ready-to-wear" for ladies. A very large business of ladies' "ready-to-wear".

David Boder

A "ready-to-wear" establishment. Did you yourselves also manufacture the dresses?

Yes. Because I was a Jewess, my husband with my sons had to be discharged, simply put out on the street, so to speak. No?

David Boder

Yes.

Hildegarde Franz

Nu, yes. The sons then emigrated to America.

David Boder

Oh, in 1934 your sons still had a chance to emigrate to America?

Hildegarde Franz

Yes, yes.

David Boder

Who sent them the affidavits?

Hildegarde Franz

My son happened to meet a gentleman at . . .

David Boder

You, you have no relatives [in the United States], so they were . . .

Hildegarde Franz

. . . the Leipzig Fair. He provided for my son a contact with America.

David Boder

Yes.

Hildegarde Franz

And he remained there [where?] for a year, and from there [?] he . . .

David Boder

To . . .

Hildegarde Franz

. . . he got his . . .

David Boder

Affidavit.

Hildegarde Franz

. . . his entrance [permit] . . .

David Boder

To America.

Hildegarde Franz

. . . was obtained. Since then he is in America with one and the same firm, since ten years ago, since ten years ago with the same firm.

David Boder

With the same firm, yes.

Hildegarde Franz

Employed by Kresge.

David Boder

Kresge?

Hildegarde Franz

Kresge, yes.

David Boder

What is that, the five-and-ten firm. Or . . .

Hildegarde Franz

A very large firm.

David Boder

That very large five-and-ten [firm?]

Hildegarde Franz

Employed already for ten years.

David Boder

Yes. Yes. Now that means one son is there.

Hildegarde Franz

Yes.

David Boder

And do you have any more in America?

Hildegarde Franz

One son is in the state of Colorado. Yes, Colorado.

David Boder

Yes.

Hildegarde Franz

In Durango. And for six years he holds the same position.

David Boder

Aha. Are they married there?

Hildegarde Franz

One of my sons is married.

David Boder

He did not take his wife with him?

Hildegarde Franz

Yes. His wife is there.

David Boder

He took her with him from here?

Hildegarde Franz

[words not clear; they speak simultaneously] No. He got married in America.

David Boder

He got married in America.

Hildegarde Franz

Yes.

David Boder

Now with whom then are you here, Mrs. Franz?

Hildegarde Franz

I am all alone.

David Boder

What happened to your husband?

Hildegarde Franz

My husband died.

David Boder

When?

Hildegarde Franz

My husband was very, very ill due to all these harassments and the hardships that we endured. Then my husband became very, very ill, true [you see?]?

David Boder

Yes.

Hildegarde Franz

And due to the air raids . . .

David Boder

Yes.

Hildegarde Franz

. . . which we lived through. It was afterwards, so [that] I for nearly a full half-year hardly got out of my clothes, only in order to help my sick husband, when the [air] attacks would start, so that I could take him to the cellar. For a full half-year I did not take off my clothes.

David Boder

Where were you during all that time?

Hildegarde Franz

In Nuremberg, in Nuremberg.

David Boder

In Nuremberg.

Hildegarde Franz

Yes. Then in '43 I was . . .

David Boder

Now one moment [apparently adjustment of the equipment]. Now go on. What happened then in '43?

Hildegarde Franz

Now in '43 it was . . . when it [the war] became so frightful, I went with my husband for a few weeks to the country. There he became very, very sick. I had [to provide for] an operation. I had to return him to Nuremberg in order to submit him to an operation.

David Boder

Now your husband was a Christian?

Hildegarde Franz

Yes, and . . .

David Boder

He was a German?

Hildegarde Franz

He was German. And then he died in Nuremberg.

David Boder

And he died in Nuremberg.

Hildegarde Franz

In 40â . . . on the 19th of October, '43, my husband died, and on the 17th of January, '44, I was, within two days, from my apartment remoâ . . . [she weeps silently]

David Boder

What do you mean by "within two days"?

Hildegarde Franz

[choking with tears] I had to vacate my apartment and was moved to the KZ, where . . . horribly . . . [she cries bitterly] Let me take hold of myself a bit. [Pause.] At the age of seventy-three, after two months I was dragged away to Theresienstadt.

David Boder

Now well, what did they say? Why?

Hildegarde Franz

Just nothing. I am a Jewess.

David Boder

Yes.

Hildegarde Franz

So I was . . . was simply dragged off.

David Boder

Now tell me. You say they gave you two days to liquidate your apartment.

Hildegarde Franz

They wanted . . . yes. I could not move any more from the apartment. I was compelled to leave everything as it stood and lay. No? [in a fading voice] I was simply . . .

David Boder

[whispers] A bit louder.

Hildegarde Franz

[in full voice] I was simply dragged away to Theresienstadt.

David Boder

Now tell me, how many people went with you to Theresienstadt?

Hildegarde Franz

With my transport . . .

David Boder

Yes.

Hildegarde Franz

. . . went fifteen people.

David Boder

And how were you transported to Theresienstadt?

Hildegarde Franz

We were [sent] to Theresienstadt by train under guard, that is under the SA [Sturmabteilung, also sometimes known as Brown Shirts or Storm Troopers] . . .

David Boder

From . . .

Hildegarde Franz

. . . of the Gestapo.

David Boder

Was that a passenger RR-car?

Hildegarde Franz

It was a third class RR-car [an ordinary passenger car, normally decent transportation].

David Boder

A third class RR-car?

Hildegarde Franz

Yes.

David Boder

Who were the other people with you?

Hildegarde Franz

There was a Mr. Kaufman, a . . . also a [Mrs.] Dessauerâhe, too, had died [her husband]âDessauer, Kaufman, a Mr. Krengel, a Frau Dr. Rodmar [?] . . .

David Boder

[whispers] A bit louder.

Hildegarde Franz

A Frau Dr. Rodmar, a . . .

David Boder

Now well, I mean what kind of people were they that they had remained in Nuremberg so long in the first place?

Hildegarde Franz

They all were of mixed marriages.

David Boder

Oh, they were people of mixed marriages [Jew-Christian].

Hildegarde Franz

Yes, and they were all in '3 . . . [correction] '44 dragged away to Theresienstadt.

David Boder

But of these mixed marriages they took only the Jewish half?

Hildegarde Franz

Yes, yes.

David Boder

The Jewish half of the mixed marriages.

Hildegarde Franz

The Jewish half of the mixed marriages, yes, yes.

David Boder

These were then [possibly after the death of the Christian half] sent away to Theresienstadt.

Hildegarde Franz

Only the Jews.

David Boder

Now tell me, how did you find Theresienstadt at that time? [See Mr. Schlaefrig, Chapter 26.]

Hildegarde Franz

Well, we have Theresienstadt . . . we were . . .

David Boder

There were various periods in Theresienstadt.

Hildegarde Franz

Yes.

David Boder

Now then, where, what kind of a place [accommodations] was assigned to you? Where . . .

Hildegarde Franz

They assigned to us an attic.

David Boder

An attic? Of a building?

Hildegarde Franz

Of a building, where we had to live . . . sleep and live. And . . .

David Boder

And who lived below?

Hildegarde Franz

Below was a Siechenheim where sick people were lying. [The interviewer did not get the word "Siechenhiem." It sounded somewhat like "Ziegenheim," goat home, hence the confusion below.]

Now, well, we slept in a kind of box with a paillasse [sack of straw].

David Boder

Aha. For each one separately? A bed for each one, so to speak?

Hildegarde Franz

A bed, yes.

David Boder

With a paillasse.

Hildegarde Franz

Paillasse, yes.

David Boder

Now what kind of things did you take with you?

Hildegarde Franz

A little . . . I was permitted to take with me only the most indispensable. A coffer with clothes, which I had been using at the time, a little underwear, a blanket and a pillow.

David Boder

Aha. And that they let you keep in Theresienstadt?

Hildegarde Franz

I was allowed to keep it. But many . . . I happened to be lucky, but from many it was stolen, so that they had nothing. They . . .

David Boder

So. And tell me, how was it afterwards in Theresienstadt?

Hildegarde Franz

Nu, yes . . .

David Boder

How long were you there, and . . .

Hildegarde Franz

A year and a half. Until the liberation by the Russians had come.

David Boder

Were you well?

Hildegarde Franz

For seven weeks I lay in the hospital.

David Boder

In the same Siechenheim?

Hildegarde Franz

No, no. In a hospital. "The Grand Hotel" it was called.

David Boder

Yes.

Hildegarde Franz

And there I lay for seven weeks, because I lost weight so quickly.

David Boder

Hm.

Hildegarde Franz

Within three months, four months, I lost forty pounds. That was too much. So all my inner organs, heart and everything, were affected by it. True?

David Boder

Hm.

Hildegarde Franz

And so I lay for seven weeks in the hospital.

David Boder

And what did they do for you?

Hildegarde Franz

[weeping] In the hospital? Oh, dear God. How much could they do? I was lying in the hospital. I was treated with [unclear; still in tears]. I was discharged too early, because this hospital was really used only for people sick of the lungs.

David Boder

Aha.

Hildegarde Franz

And so I was returned to my attic.

David Boder

Who were the physicians in this hospital?

Hildegarde Franz

That was a Dr. Guttman.

David Boder

Were they Jewish physicians?

Hildegarde Franz

They were Jewish physicians. There were only Jews there.

David Boder

Yes, and the . . .

Hildegarde Franz

Only Jewish . . .

David Boder

Yes, I understand. And the physicians were Jewish, true?

Hildegarde Franz

They were Jewish, yes.

David Boder

Now tell me, as time passed and it came nearer to the defeat, did the conditions change a bit in Theresienstadt?

Hildegarde Franz

No. I mean at the end we did not believe any more in general [she weeps]âhow should I say?âto be freed [?]. We were completely cut off from the world. We did not get any news, nothing.

David Boder

No newspapers, no magazines?

Hildegarde Franz

Nothing, nothing. No newspapers, no radio, no . . . not even a letter placed in a package. That too they took away.

David Boder

Did you get any packages?

Hildegarde Franz

I . . . No. Not a single one did I receive.

David Boder

Why?

Hildegarde Franz

[in tears] I got nothing. Nobody sent me anything. [unintelligible].

David Boder

Didn't you have any friends left in Heidelberg

Hildegarde Franz

[correcting] In Nuremberg.

David Boder

In Nuremberg, who had remained there?

Hildegarde Franz

Yes, but I was . . . none of them sent me anything. I also did not request [demand] anything, because I did not want to embarrass those people. True? Because it was strictly prohibited that the Jews should have anything sent to them.

David Boder

Now tell me, did you still have any money?

Hildegarde Franz

In Theresienstadt, no, not a penny.

David Boder

How come?

Hildegarde Franz

I was not permitted to take any money.

David Boder

Oh. Did you have any money in . . .

Hildegarde Franz

But in Theresienstadt there wasâsorry I don't have it with meâthere was a ghetto money [currency].

David Boder

Yes.

Hildegarde Franz

True? And . . .

David Boder

And who got that?

Hildegarde Franz

That we got . . .

David Boder

For what . . .

Hildegarde Franz

. . . so we could buy something.

David Boder

Now, did you get that money for nothing, or . . .

Hildegarde Franz

We got every month fifty crowns, true?

David Boder

Yes.

Hildegarde Franz

Ghetto money.

David Boder

Yes. With that Moses picture on it?

Hildegarde Franz

Moses' picture on it. Yes, yes. I have saved [as a curiosity] a few of them.

David Boder

Yes.

Hildegarde Franz

We all had to wear the Jewish star, no?

David Boder

Yes.

Hildegarde Franz

And we were . . . Now the food was more [less] than little.

David Boder

How were you fed? Did you cook there in your quarters or . . .

Hildegarde Franz

No. With . . . we were fed from a [central] kitchen with . . .

David Boder

And who fetched the food?

Hildegarde Franz

That all of us had to get. We had to call for it. We had to fetch the food.

David Boder

Did you stand in a queue? [She may not have understood the word queue. Maybe it was mispronounced.]

Hildegarde Franz

No. Just on the street. There were streets.

David Boder

And so you fetched your food and . . . Where did you eat it?

Hildegarde Franz

[in tears; words not clear] . . . and we sat down on the bed and ate. A table we didn't know any more. True? There were no tables in our room. Nu, so one had to sit down on his bed.

David Boder

Yes. So. Did you keep your own bed linen?

Hildegarde Franz

Yes. I had my own bed linen. These I took with me. And I washed them regularly.

David Boder

Hm. Did you have enough soap?

Hildegarde Franz

Soap? [chuckle] What soap? Well, we got some soap paste.

David Boder

Hm.

Hildegarde Franz

And of that there was very little.

David Boder

Yes. And then? Did it not get better towards the end?

Hildegarde Franz

Oh. There began to come commissions.

David Boder

Yes.

Hildegarde Franz

From Sweden and from Switzerland [International Red Cross?].

David Boder

Yes.

Hildegarde Franz

And it had to become a bit better for us.

David Boder

Hm.

Hildegarde Franz

And everything had . . . Now what they wanted to show, the Nazis, that they showed, that was put in order. And the rest remained as it was. Then we would get once a bit more food, and when they were gone, the commission, then they deducted it again from us. Then we got less again. No?

David Boder

So. Yes. Who were the Nazis with whom you had come in contact?

Hildegarde Franz

We had less contact with the Nazis. It was the Council of the Elders who received the orders from the Nazis, and the Council of the Elders had to execute them.

David Boder

Do you remember any people from the Council of the Elders?

Hildegarde Franz

[recollecting] From the Council of the Elders? I really . . . Wait please . . . Oneâwhat was his name? I met a Mr. Meier. Otherwise, no one.

David Boder

No one.

Hildegarde Franz

Because once I was summoned to the commandant's office where I was confronted with a will which I and my husband had made out in the year '32. And they asked me at the commandant's office [in tears] if that was in the handwriting of my husband, and they told me to declare it void.

David Boder

Why void it?

Hildegarde Franz

Well, I don't know. I did not agree to that. I said to myself that I have lived with my husband in a very happy marriage, a forty-three year old happy marriage, and that the family of my husband is sacred to me [a will in their favor should stand]. Thus I explained it to them. That was . . .

David Boder

Was that a Jewish group that [told] you . . .

Hildegarde Franz

No. These were the . . .

David Boder

The S[S] . . .

Hildegarde Franz

The S[S]. That was the Gestapo that questioned me. The SS were . . .

David Boder

Yes. What was there in the will that was not to their liking?

Hildegarde Franz

Well, at that time I assigned everything to the name of my husband, no?

David Boder

Yes.

Hildegarde Franz

And if I somehow had voided it then they would have taken over everything. No?

. . . and the furniture, everything that there was. And so they were very eagerly after it in order to distribute it among their Nazis. And so they were greatly interested in getting it, but they could not do that, because everything was in the name of my husband [a Christian]. No?

David Boder

Yes.

Hildegarde Franz

And I did not agree to give it up.

David Boder

Yes.

Hildegarde Franz

True?

David Boder

Did they not threaten you?

Hildegarde Franz

No. I just told them that under no circumstances would I acquiesce to counteract the wishes of my husband, and the will should remain as is.

David Boder

Yes. Now tell me, Mrs. Franz, how did the liberation come about?

Hildegarde Franz

Liberation came through the Russians.

David Boder

How did they come in?

Hildegarde Franz

That was the 8th, 9th of May. The 8th or 9th of May they came.

David Boder

'45.

Hildegarde Franz

'45.

David Boder

And what happened then?

Hildegarde Franz

Then it happened . . . They got away in flight, those [Nazis] who were still there. True? They retreated and abandoned everything in disorder.

David Boder

Yes.

Hildegarde Franz

And the Russians treated us decently.

David Boder

So.

Hildegarde Franz

We got more food, and we were given proper maintenance.

David Boder

So, and when did you return to Nuremberg?

Hildegarde Franz

We returned the 2nd of July, '45. We were called for [fetched] by the Americans from Theresienstadt.

David Boder

In camions, buses?

Hildegarde Franz

In buses, in such cargo trucks we were called for.

David Boder

Now what did you find in Nuremberg of your property?

Hildegarde Franz

Nothing at all. [Pause.] The house was bombed out.

David Boder

Was it your own house?

Hildegarde Franz

No, it was not my own house. Of my whole apartment I salvaged hardly anything. The people who had sublet from me have helped themselves [to my things] rather well.

David Boder

Did you find some clothing? Did you . . .

Hildegarde Franz

Nothing. There were only a few things, a few valuables that I had stored away with a Dr. Mombart.

David Boder

A Christian?

Hildegarde Franz

Yes. He kept it for me wonderfully, while the intermarried couple who lived in my apartment did exactly the contrary. [See note at end of chapter.] But I don't want [to do anything] against these people.

David Boder

Oh yes, you don't want to complain . . .

Hildegarde Franz

It is over. I don't want to demand [prosecute]. They have deprived me of a lot.

David Boder

That was an intermarried family that lived there.

Hildegarde Franz

Yes, yes.

David Boder

And nothing happened to them during . . .

Hildegarde Franz

They left the apartment afterwards. A bomb hit [the house], true?

David Boder

Oh, and then?

Hildegarde Franz

It tore off one wall, but the things, the furniture remained standing. No?

David Boder

Aha.

Hildegarde Franz

At least a large part. And what happened to it? I got a few pieces back, but in part they said they had nothing more.

David Boder

So. And your bank account? Did you get that back?

Hildegarde Franz

That I got back.

David Boder

That the Americans have returned to you?

Hildegarde Franz

Yes, yes.

David Boder

And they permit you to take it out?

Hildegarde Franz

They have . . . that [the permission] I got, too.

David Boder

Yes. So that was safe.

Hildegarde Franz

Yes, that was safe. But of the furnishings of my apartment, I have lost very, very much.

David Boder

Now tell me, did you make quick contact with your sons?

Hildegarde Franz

Yes, I obtained it through an American.

David Boder

Did you telegraph, or what?

Hildegarde Franz

My son sent me a cable first, because I had sent him a letter. And then he sent me a cable full of great joy about me still being alive [tears].

David Boder

Hm.

Hildegarde Franz

They didn't figure that I was still alive.

David Boder

Now when do you think you are leaving?

Hildegarde Franz

I am leaving on the 24th.

David Boder

Which 24th?

Hildegarde Franz

The 24th of September, with the transport.

David Boder

Where to?

Hildegarde Franz

To Bremen.

David Boder

Oh. And then your ship leaves from Bremen?

Hildegarde Franz

Oh, yes.

David Boder

I thought that you are possibly going to Paris, because I am leaving the 29th . . .

Hildegarde Franz

No, no.

David Boder

. . . on the [S.S.] Washington.

Hildegarde Franz

Yes, yes.

David Boder

Then you are traveling on a military ship?

Hildegarde Franz

Yes, yes.

David Boder

So, that is, after all, a happy ending to such a bitter play ["gutes Ende zum boesen Spiel"].

Hildegarde Franz

Yes. I have suffered much, and much.

David Boder

Oh, that we know. That . . .

Hildegarde Franz

[weeps bitterly] I have suffered frightfully. I really should not think about it, how hard it was for me.

David Boder

Where are you going now? To Newark?

Hildegarde Franz

To my son.

David Boder

To Newark. And the other one you say is in . . .

Hildegarde Franz

Is in Durango, Colorado. In the state of Colorado.

David Boder

Yes. You would like it there, too. It is warm and beautiful there.

Hildegarde Franz

[in tears] The children are, of course, glad that they still have a mother.

David Boder

Of course, they should be glad.

Hildegarde Franz

It was frightful. I can't explain it to you at all, how terrible that all was. [She apparently weeps.]

David Boder

Hm.

Hildegarde Franz

I have gained fifty pounds.

David Boder

How much did you weigh? How much do you weigh now?

Hildegarde Franz

Now I must have about my old [original] weight.

David Boder

How much?

Hildegarde Franz

About one hundred fifteen to one hundred twenty pounds. But when I returned from Theresienstadt I weighed only 70 pounds.

David Boder

Tell me please, were there in Theresienstadt any selections, so that people were sent away from there?

Hildegarde Franz

You mean transports [shipments usually to extermination camps]?

David Boder

Yes, from Theresienstadt.

Hildegarde Franz

Oh. God in heaven!

David Boder

Tell us about it.

Hildegarde Franz

Well, in my time [?] many, many people were sent to Poland.

David Boder

For what reason? How were they chosen?

Hildegarde Franz

Simply. [she speaks very fast, barely understandable, with great apprehension] For transport so-and-so many people were simply ordered. And the transports came for them, [and they went] part to Auschwitz, part to Belsen. They went to Posen where they were kept in KZs, and most of these people have all perished. Then there was one transport that was the last one, in October. There were eighteen thousand people dragged off from Theresienstadt.

David Boder

[astonished] Eighteen thousand?

Hildegarde Franz

Eighteen thousand people were dragged off from Theresienstadt to Poland.

David Boder

How were they selected? Were any Reichs-Germans [actual German citizens whether Jews or non-Jews] with . . . among them?

Hildegarde Franz

Germans and all possible . . . all possible nations were among them [?].

David Boder

And how did you succeed in remaining there?

Hildegarde Franz

Where? I?

David Boder

In Theresienstadt, yes.

Hildegarde Franz

[in a feeble voice] Yes, that I don't know. I just was not among them.

David Boder

What?

Hildegarde Franz

I was not among them. I just did not get to it.

David Boder

[You] had luck.

Hildegarde Franz

I had luck.

David Boder

Were there any in the transports who came with you from Nuremberg?

Hildegarde Franz

There were such [?] who were dragged off to Poland, to Auschwitz.

David Boder

Aha.

Hildegarde Franz

And of them only a single one [a woman] has returned. She was a younger person. The others have all perished.

David Boder

[After a long pause possibly due to difficulty with the equipment, at which times some statements were made that could not be recorded; in English] There is a correction: four people from her transport were sent to Poland, and one returned of these four, a younger person.

David Boder

This concludes the interview with Miss Hildegardeâ [correction] with Mrs. Hildegarde Franz, age seventy-five, born in Nuremberg, or who lived in Nuremberg in a mixed marriage with a Christian husband, and who after his death was sent to Theresienstadt. She is now in the UNRRA camp at Funkenkasernen in Munich. And the 24th of this monthâthat means in four daysâshe is going to Bremen, and from Bremen sailing to the United States to her son in Newark, and to the other one in Colorado. This concludes the interview with Miss [Mrs.] Hildegarde Franz at twenty minutes of the spool [about 25 minutes running on 50 cycles]. An Illinois Institute of Technology wire recording.