28. Greatest Number Of Exchanges With A Customer Before Finalizing A Sale

Monday, 28 Sep 2015

(1) Paul - 6 Nov, 2014

I have two questions about the inscriptions option. one where will the inscription be. two how many characters can you fit into the inscription. Im looking at either the maze ring or the robot. which is harder to solve? and I know what I think but of the two which is considered more masculine?

(2) Jeff - 7 Nov, 2014

The inscription can be anywhere you want, on the inside or outside of the ring.
We have made engraving a special offer on our website, so there is no limit to the number of characters you can have. How many will fit in a particular space depends upon the size of the font.

Maze and Robot are the same ring, the differences is purely cosmetic, so they share the same assembly method.

The degree of masculinity that a ring possesses is an entirely subjective judgement, but in my opinion Robot looks more masculine.

(3) Paul - 7 Nov, 2014

Ok thank you for the information. I have another question. Is it easy for someone to figure out how to solve either the robot ring or the maze ring?
in other words. can someone solve it within thirty minutes

(4) Jeff - 8 Nov, 2014

Maze (and Robot, since they are the same ring) is a relatively simple ring.
But easy for one person is next-to-impossible for another, so who can say how long any particular person will take to solve it.
If you haven't done so already, have a look at the assembly video for either ring, and decide for yourself whether the person you have in mind would find it easy to solve.

(5) Paul - 9 Nov, 2014

ok ill probably put in an order soon, I really like your inscription option. Do you know of any other people who sell unique puzzle rings? Ive looked all over the internet and all I can find are the same rings over and over again.

(6) Jeff - 9 Nov, 2014

Like you, I have searched the internet looking for something different (to see what competition I have), but have only managed to find the same thing (with different bells and whistles, maybe) over and over again.

(7) Paul - 11 Nov, 2014

Can you coat the circular part of the Robot ring with what you use for the fire maze? or maybe gold, or anything else you have on hand?

(8) Jeff - 12 Nov, 2014

As it happens, I can.
What I use for Fire Maze is rose-gold plating, any part of Robot can be similarly plated.
I could also add a layer of solid gold (yellow, white or pink), or bronze, brass or copper.

(9) Paul - 12 Nov, 2014

Is there a way I can see the color difference between yellow gold, white gold, pink gold, bronze, brass or copper? I would like to know what they look like. Im getting excited.

(10) Paul - 14 Nov, 2014

Can you send me pictures of the robot ring on the inside and out. Also I noticed the ring in the tutorial is different than the one on the website, there's a line going through the circle on the ring in the tutorial and there is no line on the one that's photographed. so which one will I be buying?

(11) Jeff - 16 Nov, 2014

It is notoriously difficult to portray colours accurately in photographs, but I have taken a few anyway. They are attached.
I didn't bother photographing white gold, since it would be almost indistinguishable from silver at first glance and hence unsuitable for what you have in mind.

In 1517, from left to right are brass, bronze (washed out), copper, 24K yellow gold and 14K pink gold.
In 1525, the bronze looks OK but the copper is washed out.
In both photos the brass looks very ordinary, the colour is paler than 24K and definitely looks better in the flesh than in the photos.

Of course, you need to take into consideration the fact that only the gold will not tarnish, although if you wear the ring frequently then any tarnish is worn off against your clothes etc. Also, the metal would not be in contact with your skin, so would tarnish much less.

(12) Jeff - 16 Nov, 2014

You will find attached a photo of the inside of Robot, but none of the outside, since there are already 2 photos of that on the website.
Those photos are of the current version of Robot, the one you would receive if you placed an order. The outdated version I used while making the assembly video is no longer available, except upon request.

(13) Paul - 18 Nov, 2014

If you plate the whole front of robot in gold, will the engraving show through and make the letters silver? that would look really awesome.

In answer to your latest, I will have to get a plated ring engraved, to see whether the laser used damages the surrounding plating or not. So far, any plating has been done after the engraving, meaning that there is no silver colour showing through the engraving.

Actually, you might end up acquiring special significance in PuzzleRingMaker folklore, for being the catalyst that sparked a redirection of our focus back onto something I call "layers". That is, adding layers of various metals on top of the existing silver of our rings. I have attached a photo of some past experiments for you to admire. Layers have long been on my list of things to devote more attention to, now one of those sacred creatures called 'a potential customer' keeps asking for more information.

I have also decided that my recent photos of the colours of various metals are not good enough. Therefore, I will be doing them again, with the intention of making layering available for any customer, so I have an incentive to make the photos as good as I can.

I will also be getting some red gold made. Here is something I just copied from Wikipedia on the subject

From this info, it is clear that I can get gold which is significantly more strongly-coloured than the 14K rose (or maybe it was pink, I don't know how much silver the casting company added to make their alloy) that was in the photo.

Anyway, you now have more food for thought.

(15) Paul - 21 Nov, 2014

I think I know what I want. I have attached a picture of Robot with the areas I want plated in red. I want the plating to be made of red gold.

Please let me know when you find out if the engraving will cut through the top layer and expose the silver. If it does do then my mind is set. if it doesn't I might have some more contemplating to do.

I want the engraving to be across the ring, only readable when the ring is put together. I think that will only look good if it shines through the plated areas.

Oh and by the way you should definitely do layers the rings in the photo look awesome.

(16) Jeff - 21 Nov, 2014

It's back to the drawing board for you. The laser used for engraving is not strong enough to cut through a layer of red gold (or any other metal, for that matter).
And yes, we definitely will be offering layers at some point, the only question is when. We have so many good ideas waiting to get the attention they deserve that the problem is finding the time.

(17) Paul - 22 Nov, 2014

so could you make the engraving go across the lines in the ring so it is only readable when the ring is put together?

(18) Jeff - 22 Nov, 2014

Maybe. It depends on what you want engraved.
Also, bear in mind that the different bands on which the letters would be engraved would provide different amounts of space, at irregular intervals, so any engraving would be unevenly spaced.

(19) Paul - 24 Nov, 2014

so you couldn't have part of a letter one band and the rest of it on another?

(20) Jeff - 24 Nov, 2014

I guess there's no reason why not, but the part of the letter that fell where the gap between pieces was would be missing.

(21) Paul - 26 Nov, 2014

The ring looks very tight. I dont think that much of the letter will be missing. am i mistaken?

(22) Jeff - 27 Nov, 2014

No, you are not mistaken, the divisions between bands are relatively small.
But if the engraved letter falling on that division was also small, then a significant part could end up missing.
What exactly do you intend to get engraved?

(23) Paul - 27 Nov, 2014

EVEN THIS SHALL PASS AWAY On the outside.
PAE Sep 20, 2014 On the inside. I would like PAE to be engraved in the way it is written, that is as a personal signature with the fancy lines circling it. I saw on your website that a drawing can be copied so I assume you can do this. If not, just PAE in a regular font will be fine. However I would like PAE to look as close to my personal signature as possible.
Ok you have the information, let me know what you think!

(24) Jeff - 30 Nov, 2014

One more piece of info, please.
I would like you to indicate where, exactly, on the outside of the ring you want EVEN THIS SHALL PASS AWAY.
We can get a file created so that the PAE part will look the way you want.

(25) Paul - 4 Dec, 2014

Okay I am going to place my order with the engraving specified as soon as I get my finger sized. in the mean time how do we create this PAE file?

(26) Paul - 12 Dec, 2014

I will place my order momentarily. Here are the specifications. there are five pictures attached, one for the red gold two for the engraving on the outside and two for the engraving on the inside.
I would like the highlighted areas in the picture to be layered in red gold.
EVEN THIS SHALL PASS AWAY will start with EVEN going across the circular part of the ring. The rest of the words will be evenly spaced all the way down to where AWAY is, in the photo I have provided. I don't want all the words to start like the lines on this email. they should be more like this:
EVEN
THIS
SHALL
PASS
AWAY
That way the center of the words are in the center of the ring.
Just make sure the words are evenly spaced all the way down and im sure ill really like it.
For the inside I would like 09/20/14 and my personal signature of PAE I have attached a picture of PAE so you can copy it. If that doesn't work let me know and we will figure something out.
I will place my order and let you know its me. if you have any questions let me know.

(27) Paul - 12 Dec, 2014

Hi its me the sacred creature (potential customer) I put my self down for silver with engraving and matte finish since I imagine that will be around the cost of the fully customized puzzle ring we've

(28) Jeff - 13 Dec, 2014

Thanks for your order.
I will digest your specifications and get back to you shortly.

(29) Paul - 13 Dec, 2014

: )

(30) Jeff - 16 Dec, 2014

Your last message was truncated, so that it read as follows :
"Hi its me the sacred creature (potential customer) I put my self down for silver with engraving and matte finish since I imagine that will be around the cost of the fully customized puzzle ring we've"

Also, you might have misunderstood our recent silence after you asked how to create the PAE file. This is the craziest time of the year, as far as dealing with customers' orders is concerned, so your request slipped through the cracks and was overlooked. Sorry about that.

It doesn't mean that we grew tired of your continued requests for yet more information and decided to pressure you into parting with some cash. In fact, you are achieving a certain notoriety for the extent of your question-asking, and you have undoubtedly secured yourself an entry in our Blog with your efforts.

One thing though, gold is expensive, so an added $10 or so won't go close to covering the extra cost. Just what that extra cost will be, I have no idea yet, but we will keep you updated as we go along and come to some kind of amicable arrangement. Then if you object to the price of a ring tarted up with gold, you can simply get the layering done in copper instead.

Anyway, you are going to need a certain amount of patience, since we aren't set up to do gold layering yet.

(31) Paul - 17 Dec, 2014

oof bummer. I have plenty of patience don't worry about that and ill pay more for the gold so long as it is withing my budget. But does the copper look really nice? shiny and everything? because if so I might just get that. I do like the idea of red gold though.

(32) Jeff - 31 Dec, 2014

My wife has alerted me to the fact that I didn't answer your questions about copper, so to get her off my case I am now doing so.

Yes, copper does look 'nice and shiny' when subjected to the wear and tear of normal wear, it only goes dark and dull if allowed to sit untouched for a while (although the shininess can be brought back easily).

Since you are not in any particular rush, I recommend that you wait until I can provide you with a cost-estimate for the red gold before deciding.

The Christmas frenzy is dying down, so I will once again have more time for investigating requests such as yours.

(33) Paul - 2 Jan, 2015

Sounds good ill be standing by, waiting for the cost estimate.

(34) Paul - 19 Jan, 2015

Still waiting.

(35) Jeff - 19 Jan, 2015

We are in the process of exchanging emails with a company that specializes in alloys for gold, and will be ordering some that will allow us to cast our own red and white gold (which we hope to do within the next week).

I have decided that I will take an off-cut from one of the red-gold castings, and roll it out to make a layer that I would then be able to use to calculate the cost of layering your ring.

(36) Paul - 20 Jan, 2015

ok thanks for the update.

(37) Paul - 4 Feb, 2015

So I realized the other day, you currently have my payment for my ring and I don't have my ring. So I would like a temporary refund until I can actually buy my ring. Im sure you understand, you have seemed to be a very reasonable associate through all of this.
Don't think i'm backing out I still want that ring!

(38) Jeff - 4 Feb, 2015

No worries, I understand.
You will have your refund by the time you read this.
The wheels usually turn slowly here at PuzzleRingMaker, due to us having so many irons in the fire, but there is progress (which I will keep you posted on).

(39) Paul - 4 Feb, 2015

Thank you.

(40) Jeff - 4 Mar, 2015

Yes, you have been waiting patiently, haven't you? Thanks for that.

And you are right that it is time to get back to making your ring. The mad rush that has been going on ever since before Christmas subsided just last week, so we now have some time to actually take a breath.

Concerning the PAE engraving, all we need is an image. We can then get the guy who does the engraving to create the necessary file to guide the laser.

Within the next week we will have the necessary red gold to do your layering, at which point I will be able to be exact with the price. It will be 10K.

(41) Paul - 5 Mar, 2015

So, it will be 10,000 dollars? I'm a little thrown off by that last part.

(42) Jeff - 5 Mar, 2015

Didn't mean to give you a heart attack :)
Thanks for giving us a very good laugh.

You will be pleased to know that K stands for karat, the unit of purity for gold, not thousand.
Gold usually comes in 9 (or 10 in the case of the US), 14 or 18K.
Our first casting of red gold will be in 10K.

Feel better now?

(43) Paul - 5 Mar, 2015

YES, much bettter.

(44) Paul - 10 Mar, 2015

Dont you already have an PAE image? just in case here is one.

(45) Jeff - 17 Mar, 2015

Yes, I do. Thanks anyway.
Will talk to you tomorrow.

(46) Jeff - 17 Mar, 2015

First, congratulations. Your persistence and patience are about to be rewarded.

Second, the bottom line.
For the 10K red gold layer the extra cost would be US $~.
If the metal is copper, there would be no extra cost on top of the price of the ring, simply because you have been waiting so patiently for so long that I would do the necessary work for free.

You will find attached a photo.
It shows an issue that you might not have considered, namely that the layering will stand up above the level of the rest of the ring. But not greatly, since the layer isn't particularly thick.

(47) Paul - 18 Mar, 2015

It looks so awesome! That red gold is going to look great, $~ extra dollars for the gold is no problem, let me know when you want the payment. I don't think I care if it stands over the silver a little. But if one of the edges is sharp I would like it if you could file it down and make it smooth. In the picture the piece on the bottom right looks a little pointy.

(48) Jeff - 19 Mar, 2015

In fact the metal in the photo is copper.

The red gold is significantly less rich in colour.

So your choice depends upon whether richness of colour is your priority, or having some gold in the metal.

I think I said once upon a time that it is quite easy to keep copper looking good, I found that just having my ring on my finger 24/7 was enough to stop it from tarnishing.

And if you leave your ring off long enough that tarnishing occurs, a quick scrub with a fine wire brush (thrown in for free if you wish) is sufficient to have it looking like new.

However, one thing against copper is that it is soft (which is why I like working with it), so if you wear your ring for long enough then it will gradually start wearing off.

Anyway, let me know your final decision on the metal for the layer and we will send you a PayPal money request.

Of course I won't leave any sharp edges.

(49) Paul - 19 Mar, 2015

I can tell you that I do not want copper, end of story. But I want what ever else is on to stand out. What stands out the most? Red gold, pink gold, rose gold, or gold gold.

(50) Jeff - 21 Mar, 2015

OK, "end of story" is about as clear as you can get concerning copper.

As far as "standing out", my suggestion is 23K.

Then it stands out for 2 reasons.

One, nobody in the US would have 23+K (23K is 95.8% pure, whereas the gold that we buy for making our various gold alloys is 96.5% pure.)

Two, you and everyone else you show the ring to would see what almost-pure gold looks like (a beautiful yellow colour).

For this, you would be looking at a price of $~, and the layer would be fairly thin. The reason this price is so modest is that I will not be charging you for the work that is involved, simply because you have been waiting for so long.

Or maybe you prefer a coppery colour instead of yellow, in which case the red gold has the strongest colour.

(51) Paul - 21 Mar, 2015

How bad would the layer of almost pure gold wear and tear?

(52) Jeff - 24 Mar, 2015

​​The thing with alloys is that the addition of even a small amount of some particular metal can have a significant effect on its properties.

At the moment I don't know what effect that 3.5% of other metals added to the gold has on its hardness, which is one of the reasons I am going to get some thin sheet made (maybe tomorrow) and see for myself.

I do know that essentially all gold jewellery sold in Thailand is of a similar karat, so it can't be ridiculously soft.

(53) Paul - 25 Mar, 2015

Let me know what you find out. I will most likely choose the gold gold.

(54) Jeff - 25 Mar, 2015

I should be able to collect the red, pink and yellow gold sheets tomorrow, I'll update you after that.

(55) Jeff - 2 Apr, 2015

In my mind, the best option for the layering is the 23+K gold.

Now that I have had a chance to compare this in thin-layer form to the red gold (which is indistinguishable from the pink gold I had from an earlier casting episode, and hence not particularly standout-ish) I can confirm that it is relatively soft. How well it wears when in place is something that only time would tell.

So my idea is to use you as a guinea pig, if you are willing. I'd like to use the 23+, then wait for a progress report from you as to how it behaves. Then at some later date you can send it back if you become dissatisfied, and I'll do something else to replace it.

What do you say?

(56) Paul - 3 Apr, 2015

I say yes! Bill me.

(57) Paul - 6 Apr, 2015

So to get everything straight. Robot with my specifications and the 23+k gold plating, will bring the price up to $~. I seem to recall something about a polishing device for free. If that would still be of any use to me ill take it.

(58) Jeff - 7 Apr, 2015

Yes, $~ covers everything. We have sent you a Paypal request for this amount.

The "polishing device" is a fine wire brush, and it will come in handy keeping your ring looking good, so it will be included.

You have now officially entered the PuzzleRingMaker record books in the category of 'greatest number of exchanges (60 and counting) with a customer before finalizing a sale' :)

We need to clarify the situation concerning the engraving you want. Going back quite a long way, you wanted "EVEN THIS SHALL PASS AWAY" done on the outside of the ring. In my opinion, putting this where you want it will result in a real mess (plus some of the engraving would go on the gold layers), since undoubtedly parts of (or even all of) some letters would be missing, due to them falling where there are gaps. Do you still want to go ahead with this?

(59) Paul - 7 Apr, 2015

No, you're right it would be a mess. I will rethink the outside engraving to make it look more elegant. Maybe ill even change what is being engraved. 60 and counting, lol. Ill get back to you soon.

(60) Paul - 16 Apr, 2015

I want 18750 inscribed on the front of the ring in the middle part. I tried to write it but it didn't turn out too clear. However, you should still be able to clearly understand what I want. I would like the numbers to be as big as possible all while still fitting in the middle piece. ps. I don't know why the ring looks gold in this pic. As soon as you say its done + send a pic so I can drool at it, ill pay the money order. YAY!

(61) Jeff - 19 Apr, 2015

Your ring is sitting on my desk along with a bunch of others, waiting to be sized.
Once the sizing has been done I will add the gold, the engraving will be done after that.

(62) Paul - 19 Apr, 2015

I think I said I was a size ten but its been so long I can't remember. Ill get my size to you, if that's what you're saying here. If it isn't ill do it anyway by the time you get back to me.

(63) Jeff - 19 Apr, 2015

Yes, it was a size 10.
Attached are the fonts available for your engraving.
Let me know which one you would like.

(64) Paul - 20 Apr, 2015

I want the font to look very plain, not fancy at all, so choice 1 looks good. my only concern is it looks like the 1 and 7 are a little lower than the rest of the numbers, so it doesn't look like they're on the same line. The numbers in choice 3 look like they are all on the same line but I don't like that font too much. I have the same problem with choice 12, the numbers look fine but the 1 and 7 look a little lower than the rest of the numbers.
If it looked like this 18750 that would be great.

(65) Jeff - 22 Apr, 2015

Unless we are mistaken, the font your latest message was sent in is Arial, so we'll use that.
Give me feedback after looking at the attached an image, which shows how I have interpreted your instructions.

I notice that there has been no mention of the PAE symbol recently, I just want to confirm that the number 18750 is the only engraving you want.

(66) Paul - 22 Apr, 2015

The font looks perfect that is exactly what I want but, I don't want it sideways. I want it straight. If it was the way I wanted it in the picture the line the numbers sit on would be perpendicular to the top and bottom edges of the photo. I know this makes them very small so lets use the pointy edges of the ring for the 1 and 0. I think that would look cool.
here is a photo for the other engravings. If this is not doable because of the size the letters would have to be let me know and ill figure something out. However, I do wish for my specifications to work. Thanks for being so patient with me.

(67) Paul - 22 Apr, 2015

can you send me another visual interpretation of my instructions?

(68) Jeff - 24 Apr, 2015

You will find attached a number of images.
One shows the engraving on the outside of the ring, another shows the engravings on the inside.
The others are photos I took during the layering process.

Doing this layering work for you has made it very clear that I will not be offering it to anyone else, it is just far too much trouble.
So you will have a very exclusive item.

(69) Paul - 27 Apr, 2015

The new location for 18750 is exactly what I was talking about. But since the pointy edges are gold and the rest is silver I feel like it would look like 1 then 875 and then the number 0, instead of the number 18750. Can we put all the numbers in the middle silver piece?
The engraving on the inside looks great.

(70) Jeff - 29 Apr, 2015

OK, please see the attached photo and confirm.

(71) Paul - 30 Apr, 2015

Confirmed, that is perfect.
I want to have one more thing added to the inside. the letters CAD all in caps. I have attached a photo for you to see where I want the CAD.
Lets make CAD Arial as well as the date on the inside. Send me some photos and ill confirm. thanks.

(72) Jeff - 30 Apr, 2015

OK, attached is the updated photo.
And a final word about your PAE engraving.
I want to make it clear that the image that you provide us with is exactly the image that will appear on your ring.
So if you just drew something roughly and actually want it to look better than that, please provide us with another image.

(73) Jeff - 1 May, 2015

OK, attached is the latest photo.

(74) Paul - 1 May, 2015

Yes, Yes, do it, do it now! ahahaha! this has been a long process and I am so happy were finally done with the decisions. Its time for the doing! so let me know when the ring is done and I will fulfill the money order! btw, I would rather not see a picture of the completed work until it has arrived, I want it to be a semi surprise. Thank you so much.

(75) Jeff - 4 May, 2015

Oh, no, it's worse than I feared, you've finally cracked under the pressure after all this time, and your sanity hangs by the merest thread.
Understandable, of course :)
I will jump into action, just to stave off the inevitable last-last-last minute tweaking that must even now be struggling to escape from your lips.

PS Will comply with the media shut-down.

(76) Paul - 4 May, 2015

actually no, no tweaking I am fully ready for exactly what we have created. I'll fulfill the money order soon as you're done, just let me know when. and I haven't forgotten about me being the guinea pig for the 23K gold.

(77) Paul - 11 May, 2015

so, is it done?

(78) Jeff - 12 May, 2015

Thanks for the gentle reminder.

Answer : I'm not sure.

Just before the polishing stage I noticed that your ring was a little bit bigger than the size 10 you ordered, so I took a photo to show you, and then got distracted by other matters so that I didn't send it.

Perhaps you might even prefer it a bit bigger (fingers crossed, because then I can avoid a bit of work). Probably not, although there's no harm in asking.

Feel totally free to say "No, I want an exact size 10".

If it was a 10, the ring would sit equidistant from the marks just to the left and just to the right of the ring.

Once this issue is clarified, it can be completed in a day or two.

(79) Jeff - 13 May, 2015

I forgot to attach the photo I referred to, which wouldn't have helped matters.

Each of the marks on the mandrel signifies a quarter of a size, so the mark immediately to the left of your ring corresponds to 9 3/4, while the mark immediately to the right of your ring corresponds to 10 1/4

I measure the size of my rings from the middle of the bands, so if your ring was exactly a size 10 then the middle of the bands would be directly over the 10 (in which case the left edge of your ring would be the same distance from the 9 3/4 mark as the right edge was from the 10 1/4 mark).

By doing a bit of measuring on the image I provided, your ring is currently 10 1/20.

Obviously, ring gauges don't come in such small increments. Hopefully there are quarter-size increments, maybe only half sizes. If so, all I need to know when you get your finger measured is how a size 10 feels, just right, a bit small or a bit big.

PS Are we up to 70 yet?

(80) Paul - 13 May, 2015

So its 1/20 bigger than a size ten. that won't matter in the slightest I think. Proceed with finishing the ring. Thank you for including me on this "small" issue though.

(81) Jeff - 14 May, 2015

Okey dokey. Your ring will go to the polisher tomorrow, so will be in the mail a few hours later.
No worries, this process has been so long that I didn't want to take the chance of spoiling things at the last moment.

(82) Paul - 15 May, 2015

I will fulfill the money order when it's in the mail. So tomorrow at 1 EST.

(83) Paul - 16 May, 2015

Just did it. yo money is comin to ya.

(84) Jeff - 16 May, 2015

Thanks for the payment.
Your ring was posted 9 hours ago.

(85) Paul - 16 May, 2015

Awesome! this has been an somewhat tiring process but at the same time satisfactory. the length of time it took will only make me appreciate it more. you rock.

(86) Paul - 23 May, 2015

It's in the states! Yipee!

(87) Paul - 26 May, 2015

dude I can't wait i'm practically stalking the mail man.

(88) Jeff - 27 May, 2015

Hah! Thanks for giving me a good laugh.
Patience is a virtue, I am told.

(89) Paul - 31 May, 2015

muhuhuhu, the mail is on hold because we went out of town. and, and im home by myslelf, without a puzzle rriing ahahahaaaaaaaaa

(90) Paul - 1 Jun, 2015

Tomorrow is the day!

(91) Paul - 2 Jun, 2015

It is surreal, honestly. The curves of the ring with the subtle yellow glow is enchanting, almost magical. Bravo!