Also, lets be real here. The creatures true form was probably the single weakest aspect of the entire book/TV Series. They can make it what ever the fuck they want and it wont take anything away from the story.

"My great-grandfather did not travel across four thousand miles of the Atlantic Ocean to see this nation overrun by immigrants. He did it because he killed a man back in Ireland. That's the rumor."-Stephen Colbert

The Turtle wasn't really its Nemesis, unless I am missing a lot of subjext. it was just an unconnected entity that largely didn't seem didn't do anything bar spit out galaxies, and which IT had contempt for. There was a hint of some undefined third entity that nudged events along.

I mean, in the book Maturin literally instructs the Losers on the ritual of chud which they use to beat it and Derry ends up getting destroyed.

Shit, now I have to reread the book because I don't remember that at all. I thought they got the ritual by reading old Native American legends on how to get rid evil spirits or something. Not saying you are wrong, just cursing my wonky memory.

I mean, in the book Maturin literally instructs the Losers on the ritual of chud which they use to beat it and Derry ends up getting destroyed.

Shit, now I have to reread the book because I don't remember that at all. I thought they got the ritual by reading old Native American legends on how to get rid evil spirits or something. Not saying you are wrong, just cursing my wonky memory.

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Bill Denbrough first battled It with the Ritual with advice that was given to him by Maturin. The ritual is a psychic battle in which the two forces duel with their wits. The children believe that the metal silver has supernatural abilities, as seen in numerous monster movies. Because the children believe it, it becomes real and is a chief weapon used in the ritual. Because Beverly Marsh is good with a slingshot, they injure It the first time when Beverly shoots a chunk of silver into Its skull. The group thinks that they killed It, but they can't be sure, so they make a pact to return to Derry should It ever return. It was finally destroyed in the second Ritual of Chüd by the adult Bill Denbrough, Richie Tozier, Beverly Marsh, Eddie Kaspbrak (although he was killed by It) and Ben Hanscom.

IT has now beaten the 44 year old record held by The Exorcist (by a big fat $400k). No, not adjusted for inflation. But budgets aren't adjusted for inflation either (it would have cost over $70M in today's bucks).

It was R-rated and featured a fucking clown killing kids and kids saying shit and fuck a lot.

That's enough to get me what I want from Hollywood.

Edit: Also, counterpoint: IT was such a good horror film that it transcended horror and just became good film. As in, it broke out of the genre - but to pretend the base of story isn't horror is just silly.

I actually think the reason it was so good it was that it was a coming of age story with horror as a thin genre veneer, at least the part that the movie portrays. The second part is more of a adult coming to grips with trauma with horror as the manifestation.

I'm not pretending shit. I understand the base of the film was horror. It wasn't a good one, imo. It had jump scares and, well, that's about it. It wasn't all that scary and every time it tried to be and built up the tension, it immediately ratcheted it right back down with a heartwarming scene or Richie and his jokes. It never built into anything for me. Don't misunderstand, I enjoyed it and thought it was a good film. But I pretty much had the same reaction to Stand By Me, frankly, and I thought Stranger Things did what it tried to do sooooo much better. I suspect that the adult follow up may be able to learn from that and build on it.

There was ONE scary moment for me that didn't involve jump scares and that was the unnatural silence of Pennywise after his popcorn line. Genuinely impactful scene that bit ; the silence, the stillness right after his giggling - that was Pennywise as fucking scary.

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IT was such a good horror film that it transcended horror and just became good film.

Jesus Christ, if anyone who wasn't you wrote that, you'd be all over them for being an unbelievably pretentious schmuck. But you do you, I guess.

I don't think he's arguing that it's not a horror movie, he's arguing that the horror aspect of it isn't that good especially compared to the non-horror aspects. Saying it's not a horror movie is a dumb argument. Saying it's not a good horror movie is something I agree with to an extent.

And yeah it's great to see an R-rated horror movie cleaning up at the box office, but look at the competition. Hollywood ended the Summer movie season a movie early this year and for wide-release movies has given us nothing but duds through September also. Maybe Kingsman will make some money this weekend but it will be despite the reviews. Hopefully Blade Runner is good because that's going to have to carry October almost entirely by itself.

I agree with Ironwood. IT was a good coming of age movie interrupted repeatedly by hackneyed jumpscare bullshittery.

I should get back to nature, too. You know, like going to a shop for groceries instead of the computer. Maybe a condo in the woods that doesn't even have a health club or restaurant attached. Buy a car with only two cup holders or something.

Silence of the Lambs is many things. And, yes, also a horror movie of a type. An actual scary one, of course, since it really does build tension all the way through and has not one but two 'normal everyday people' who are genuinely scary as fuck. It never really needs to go the 'jump scare' route, though it does in places, depending on what scares you. I'm thinking heads in jars at this point. Also, you'll note that wee silence of Pennywise (which I posited as genuinely chilling) was actually pretty much like the silences of Lecter and Buffalo Bill, in that you have a sort of dysfunctional/human moment where you can instantly see 'Nope, Chaps, this is Very Wrong, Get Out.'

But, really, this is not a valid comparison. I'd be interested in watching you die on this hill, but cmon. Really ? You wanna tell me that SotL 'was such a good horror movie it transcended horror' too ? Because that line is still mince.

I mean, I suppose the scene of Starling getting down to her pants and then jumping joyfully into that pool with the other FBI cadets DID somewhat spoil the constantly elevating tension, but. Oh Wait. That wasn't SotL.

Horror was as likely to get a nod as comedy or action movie for the roles you're talking about. It can happen but the "serious" head-up-your-ass movies are what the academies want to award. "Being an Adult," is the mindset and "adults only like serious things."