Somehow I just don't feel threatened by a country that still has famines and uses primitive language features like pictographs.

Since we have already drifted, why not just continue . Since the OP is apparently not following the thread anymore, or are so disappointed by our very un-friendly and un-welcoming attitude that s/he left already.

I see, and I agree. I wouldn't kill anyone, either. But that's a purely ethical and emotional thing, and really has no rational explanation. It's just the way we have been educated.

Apparently the Chinese government doesn't agree. And I can certainly see their side of the argument. It's a poorly defined optimization problem to begin with, and we are just optimizing for different things.

We want fairness and freedom, they want to save people. Whether we agree or not, I don't think we should talk about them so harshly as if they are just blood-seeking monsters trying to kill as many people as possible for their pleasure.

What are other people's opinions?

Once we get this ethical question out of the way, we have essentially simplified the question down to, if what they are doing is the best way (and consider alternatives).

Well, from a cultural standpoint, I think it definitely makes sense. Everyone has their own perceptions about the nature of life and death. When I was a young boy I remember being rather horrified by the "Samurai Ethic" in the movies that were popular back in those days. Taking a life (even one's own) seemed almost a mere symbolic gesture. From the perspective of my own culture, that sort of behaviour would be nothing short of ruthless - cold, calculating, and evil. But in time I realized that there were more fundamental principles at work - altruism, courage, serenity, etc. I think that there's a similar dynamic at work here. People outside of that culture have a hard time understanding, but that's just the way it is. It isn't invalid simply because we don't 'grok' it.

Hello everyone. I'm new to this forum. I have some preliminary questions.

How do you set firefox to display the Chinese fonts correctly while in this forum.

For what it's worth, China is a large part of the cultural and economic community on this planet. They were our allies during WWII. We should become friends. Personally, I, an american, like the Chinese people, their culture, and attitude towards life and community.

For what it's worth, China is a large part of the cultural and economic community on this planet. They were our allies during WWII. We should become friends. Personally, I, an american, like the Chinese people, their culture, and attitude towards life and community.

It's a bit hard when it clashes with western culture on so many levels. For example, go to China and shout that you love Jesus. You'd find yourself in a prison cell within minutes. Or if you told someone, "Oh I don't like that latest tax on lollies, what is the government doing? They're so silly" then you'd probably be facing the firing squad faster than you could say "aeroplane".

This is fact, not some attack on China. But other than the "red" aspects of China, it's rather cool. The 2002 shootings at my University (Monash University) were because of a language barrier, and a disgruntled international student because no-one understood him. So you can't really stereotype a whole country of people either for or against, and that's my point here.

A lot has happened since WWII, you'd probably find China managed to take back the lives they saved in WWII, by copying and selling firearms and supplies to "the other side" during US conflicts such as Vietnam and Korea. The North Vietnamese didn't find Chinese made AKMs growing on trees...

It's a bit hard when it clashes with western culture on so many levels. For example, go to China and shout that you love Jesus. You'd find yourself in a prison cell within minutes. Or if you told someone, "Oh I don't like that latest tax on lollies, what is the government doing? They're so silly" then you'd probably be facing the firing squad faster than you could say "aeroplane".

What you are talking about isn't culture. It's the government and regime. I think what moonstroller had in mind was that we shouldn't criticize the culture and the people. The government is a totally different thing though. Prejudice towards a nation because of its government is kind of silly and immature.

"The Internet treats censorship as damage and routes around it." - John Gilmore

What you are talking about isn't culture. It's the government and regime. I think what moonstroller had in mind was that we shouldn't criticize the culture and the people. The government is a totally different thing though. Prejudice towards a nation because of its government is kind of silly and immature.

I never said I held prejudice towards China. But you can't ignore the Government as part of culture, especially when the government tightly regulates "culture". If you're talking about historical culture, then fine -- that has nothing to do with now. You can't put the culture and government of a country in two boats.

A nation suppressed by a totalitarian regime has no way of knowing that the grass is actually greener on the other side. It will always be in the interest of dictatorships to keep the public opinion of the government positive, and since the people and the press have virtually no rights, this is easy for them.

Do you think that the North Korean people are bad people because they value their horrible government so highly? Or have they just been manipulated with?

I'm sure you have read 1984 by George Orwell, very much the same situation, a totalitarian government, which despite it's horrible deeds toward the population, is extremely popular.

Being critical of one's own government is a freedom that exists only in democratic countries, other places they are not so fortunate, should we judge the government or the people because of that?

How I need a drink, alcoholic in nature, after the heavy lectures involving quantum mechanics.

I'm sure you have read 1984 by George Orwell, very much the same situation, a totalitarian government, which despite it's horrible deeds toward the population, is extremely popular.

Yes, because:

it continously demonstrates the strength and power for which it must be respected

it supplies enemies to explain imperfection in the society, and a difficult but (perhaps) succeeding struggle against these enemies -- the "imperfections" are either because of these enemies, or expenses taken on in the (necessary) struggle

I won't defend China, but I think many/most/all western nations also fit this bill (to greater and lesser extents).

Being critical of one's own government is a freedom that exists only in democratic countries, other places they are not so fortunate, should we judge the government or the people because of that?

Well, that was precisely where I was aiming at.

It's no use to be discussing the people if everytime its government issue is brought on to the table, it is waved back with such pearls as "I do not agree with what they do".

Is China under a dictatorship? What do you think? Because if it is, then I will agree with you (and then only partially. See bellow). But say it. Be clear about it instead of wasting 7 pages showing a pathological fear to say what is on everyone's mind. And that is, one of the big issues most western countries have against China is the fact it is governed by a dictatorship. And a communist dictatorship at that.

On the other hand, if you think it is not. If you think the new-dictatorships disguised as semi-democratic governments do not constitute true totalitarian regimes, then you are wrong. The people are ultimately responsible.

...

As for the dissociation we so much pretend to exist (in the name of the politically correct) between the state and its people...

It could be said ultimately the fate of a nation depends on its people. One cannot look at the state without looking at the people. Regardless of the type of government, we answer for our own country. As much as that may scare or displease us sometimes.

Americans all represent their country. Proudly or worriedly as the Chinese represent their own. When just a few days ago when I was complaining about Europe non-intervention in Afghanistan and was suddenly told to suck it up because I'm also responsible for it, I indeed had to suck it up. Because, regardless of my opinion against the current state of affairs, I still am responsible. I'm still a representative of this group of states and people known as the EU.

What is really wrong and dangerous is to pretend we are not. Because that is exactly one of the things that makes totalitarian regimes last. If the Chinese people understood that ultimately their government actions reflect on them as individuals and as Chinese citizens, regardless of their opinion of said actions, maybe they started to demand more from their government. Just like they did in the 80s.

The people and the state are one. The state just an extension of its people. The political, the legislative and the judiciary arm of the people. And it is not by hiding behind the bogeyman of a totalitarian regime that their responsibilities are suddenly lost.

And what you have in China is a totalitarian regime that is actively supported by its people. So you can't even support the idea these are victims of the situation.

Originally Posted by brewbuck:Reimplementing a large system in another language to get a 25% performance boost is nonsense. It would be cheaper to just get a computer which is 25% faster.

It's a bit hard when it clashes with western culture on so many levels. For example, go to China and shout that you love Jesus. You'd find yourself in a prison cell within minutes. Or if you told someone, "Oh I don't like that latest tax on lollies, what is the government doing? They're so silly" then you'd probably be facing the firing squad faster than you could say "aeroplane".

Ok, slight exageration there...

A lot has happened since WWII, you'd probably find China managed to take back the lives they saved in WWII, by copying and selling firearms and supplies to "the other side" during US conflicts such as Vietnam and Korea. The North Vietnamese didn't find Chinese made AKMs growing on trees...

Wherever there is war there is money to be made. Perhaps it is a little unfair to deride China for doing exactly what we do. After all, America supplied the Nazis, and the UK supplied Sadam; even whilst we were aware that he was attempting to run his own mini holocaust on the Kurds.

Unless the nation supports the regime.

If the nation supports the regime then there would be no need for democracy.

You could argue that they suppress freedom of speech, but then so do we. In the UK there are laws banning the incitement of racial hatred. Any muslim extreemist that voices their views can be locked up. Actually muslims can be locked up for pretty much anything if there is some suspicion that they could be linked to terror. Perhaps China just has a slightly more loose definition of what can cause terror. I don't agree with Muslim fanatics, or Chinese policy on the issue, but thats beside the point.

I wasn't going to push this "we're(?) as bad as they are angle", but in fact, Saddam Hussien visited the United States to tour military chemical weapons facitlities* under the personal escort of George Bush Sr. (then head of the CIA) during the 1970's. And of course there was the Iran-contra thing after that...

Did I mention America? I'm from Europe, and here there's little off any of that xP Anyways, have you seen those Asian comics? It's completely retarded and now it just feeds on people by showing huge cleavages and girls that are usually as innocent in their behavior as a school girl, now that's just... Sexism or something. And even such comics that don't even have the real intention of being half-porn have the problem with what I said above, like c'mon...

Also, from what I hear, America can't even hold itself together, fighting wars in other countries and not fighting the wars in America...

there is nothing wrong with manga or Japanese Anime , i am myself a huge fan of Japanese anime , hentai , and ecchi and etc are two perverted genre in the anime industry ,there are lots of lots of animes that are just suitable for little kids ,teenagers and also mature audiences , you cant just call Japanese or Asians pervert or stuff like that. ! just google alittle bit before you post on sth you dont exactly know what it is .

"...a computer is a stupid machine with the ability to do incredibly smart things, while computer programmers are smart people with the ability to do incredibly stupid things. They are,in short, a perfect match.."

there is nothing wrong with manga or Japanese Anime , i am myself a huge fan of Japanese anime , hentai , and ecchi and etc are two perverted genre in the anime industry ,there are lots of lots of animes that are just suitable for little kids ,teenagers and also mature audiences , you cant just call Japanese or Asians pervert or stuff like that. ! just google alittle bit before you post on sth you dont exactly know what it is .

and Chinese guy , welcome to our community

Stupidity really makes me explode in anger (even tho I know I'm stupid myself) and I wrote these Manga/Anime hating things after have seeing some Anime a friend watched (Dragonballs?), and the stupidity just exploded me, that's why I freaked out and wrote all the manga/anime hatred stuff :P