Corbyn the communist spy!

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LE

It’s understandable that you have that opinion, since Capitalism has been the predominant “ideology” (I use the term loosely) as long as any of us have been alive. As such, and with the frequent help of propaganda in newspapers and on the radio and telly, many have come to accept it as the norm. In fact, it’s just a more sophisticated version of feudalism. True, there are things like regular wages, social security, pensions, annual holidays, etc, but they were only, very reluctantly, introduced, some of them at colossal cost in lives, to keep the peasants from permanently fomenting revolutions and insurrections. Now that the Capitalists have got the bit between their teeth again, they’re gradually getting rid of all those “benefits”, as evidenced by the official political policy of denying benefits to the disabled and unemployed on the slightest of reasons.

I agree, however, that Jeebus had a different message to religious leaders. He never said that it was good to be poor, but rather that the rich were greedy bästards who should be slung out of the temple and made to share their unearned gains. That’s actually why he was crucified: not because he was preaching peace and brotherly love, but because he was causing all manner of trouble for the rich folks.

There’s no real evidence that the human race is, by nature, in competition with itself. That’s certainly what we’re taught and the whole materialistic system is geared to making sure that we buy stuff we want, instead of just stuff that we need, while also teaching us to “obey our betters” and not to “get above our station”. The question is; why not? For the whole artificial class system is also not something that’s automatic and somehow written into cosmic law. However, there’s no denying that competition exists between individuals, that, most certainly, is a part of human nature. On the other hand, it doesn’t have to be destructive, as it is at the moment, but can also be channelled in other ways that contain creative seeds benefiting humankind.

At the same time, I don’t agree that “no form of Socialism” is possible. If that were the case, then we wouldn’t/couldn’t live in such huge conglomerates. It’s because we’re predisposed to doing so as a part of human nature, that we’ve learned effective ways of getting along with each other. Although the primary reason for the “herd instinct” of humankind is actually to facilitate procreation, it was found that many tasks were easier if they were shared out among lots of folks. It’s what allowed us to survive the “early couple of million years” that stretched to about 10,000 years ago. We all have the basic capacity for close co-operation and common purpose within us. There’s no reason why we shouldn’t re-discover it and enrich everyone’s life – in addition to saving the planet.

LE

Attlee lead a government that founded the welfare state as we know it.

But he set his face like flint against communist subversion ...

Attlle would roll in his grave watching Corbyn. He instituted policy to help people escape from the five giants of 'Want, Disease, Ignorance, Squalor and Idleness'', and defended the country and parliamentary democracy.

Quite. Attlee was a decent and honourable man with a distinguished fighting record as an infantry officer in WW1 (including Gallipoli, Suvla, Mesopotamia - where he was seriously wounded while storming a trench - and the Western Front). Churchill’s notorious sneer (“a modest man, who has much to be modest about”) was both wrong and deeply distasteful: definitely not his own finest hour.

In the remarkable contrast between these two men - Attlee the Great War warrior vs Corbyn the Class War traitor - can be seen all too clearly the pitiful and sordid decline of the once-respectable Labour Party.

MIA

any Soviet or Warsaw Pact Inelligence service worth its salt would have infiltrated such organisations as CND back in the day, and attemped o subvert some of the membership,; especially those who might be in positions of influence socially, such as Academics

LE

The Communist/Socialist message is impossible to achieve IMO. The real socialist message is close to the one that J Christ was giving out. This is not the message given out by religion, whichever sect of it is followed, as religion is just a business. Human nature means that the human race will always be in competition with itself so no form of socialism is possible - again, just my opinion.

The difference being that Jesus' message was to the individual, about individual, personal responsibility to one's neighbour, not about what the State should do.

Kipling (mildly adapted):

The Saxon is not like those Euros. His manners are not so polite.
But he never means anything serious till he talks about justice and right.
When he stands like an ox in the furrow--with his sullen set eyes on your own,
And grumbles, 'This isn't fair dealing,' my son, leave the Saxon alone.

LE

Many on the UK's political Left embraced CND (Campaign for Nuclear Disarmamen) which was a good thing, and was/is their legal right to campaign against such terrible weapon systems. However, any Soviet or Warsaw Pact Inelligence service worth its salt would have infiltrated such organisations as CND back in the day, and attemped o subvert some of the membership,; especially those who might be in positions of influence socially, such as Academics and elected parliamentarians who might rise up the ladder of promotion, and others. It has been alleged that CND and similar organisations were partially funded by the KGB or Warsaw Pact intelligence services. So why not Labour party back benchers when they were early in their careers. Certainly such organisations were proscribed as regards membership for anyone wishing to join the armed services.

Of course, all these allegations will be denied strenuously as a 'Tory Smear Campaign' and as 'Fake News'. The KGB did penetrate even MI6 before and after the WW2 years and into the 1950s and 1960s - people such as Blake, Blunt and others. Political organisations such as CND were 'fair game' to Warsaw Pact intelligence operatives - so why not the current leadership of the Labour Party - after all some of them make NO bones about espousing Marxist agendas, and some have allegedly stated their regret at the passing of Soviet communisms.

So - make up your own minds about the current Labour Party leadership and the attempts of Momentum to influence policy and the selection process for potential Labour candidates for parliament. ~The current Labour Party are trying to distance themselves from New labour's years under Blair, Brown and Mandelson, and the so-called "Third Way" espoused by Blair. Corbyn might very well be a 'nice man', and the same with John macDonnal. But political cynicism mightcloud the way at the moment at the current churning UK politcs is in. (the Hard Left did attempt to penetrate Labour many years ago, so why no again now?)

CND were traitors funded in part by our enemies in order to undermine our defence.

Kipling (mildly adapted):

The Saxon is not like those Euros. His manners are not so polite.
But he never means anything serious till he talks about justice and right.
When he stands like an ox in the furrow--with his sullen set eyes on your own,
And grumbles, 'This isn't fair dealing,' my son, leave the Saxon alone.

LE

The BBC have spoilt all the fun by speaking to the head Librarian of the Czech secret service and it turns out that uncle Corbys file had a 1 in front of it denoting he was of special interest whereas to be a full blown collaborater you needed a 4. Diane Aboot was a 7129 er 60.

On ROPS

I have avoided joining the ‘pillory-Bugsy’ crowd, but having read this I can understand the derision directed your way. Do you actually believe what you wrote, or do you post such complete and utter bollocks in order to provoke?

Why, without exception, does every socialist/communist group/state have an elite for whom the laws/restrictions/limits do not apply?

I notice you don't actually explain why it's "such complete and utter bollocks". But maybe that's your personal method of discussion. I may be wrong but it looks to me very much like a clumsy attempt to curry favour with other ARRSErs - which would also explain the lack of explanation.

Your second paragraph does have a very valid point. It's why what was termed "Socialism" (or "Communism" in some countries) as practiced in the Soviet Union and the Eastern Bloc states was doomed to failure from the offset. Having such an elite is neither Socialist, nor is it democratic. Just about every state has imposed Socialism from above. That's a sure way to ensure its demise. If the system isn't supported by the majority of citizens, then it's not viable. It's as simple as that.

To ensure that their systems survived, those so-called "Socialist" states had to employ the standard Capitalist methods of secret police and other domestic intelligence agencies to supress dissidence. That, too, can't be classed as in any way democratic.

On the other hand, there are millions of Russians, East Germans, Czechs, Slovakians, Hungarians, etc who know exactly what (and why) it went wrong the last time around and who can provide useful pointers and valuable guidance so that it doesn't occur again. The problem is that the way the world's going at the moment, with everyone shirking the responsibility for coming generations, the privileged classes aren't willing to forego their doubtful pleasures until it's too late. In my opinion, only more drastic Socialist measures can do anything to improve the life of the average citizen, while at the same time doing something positive for our environment. We have to start somewhere or we'll surely perish as a species.

MsG

Isch's Ziit füer aas Chücherli?

stacker1 is a MIME (Minimal Intelligence, Maximum Ego) and a textbook example of the Dunning-Kruger Effect.

LE

Whilst you are quoting the used toilet paper of valid information, I dont really care...that labour party have sold themselves to the far left, which ironically serves against their (ex) core voters.

Bringing in subhuman scum from the third world, ensuring that british working class men and women (and their children) are at a disadvantage (unless they are super smart females and/or some mutant gender) is now the labour party manifesto.

Now they have completely lost their way, I wonder who will take that vote? It wont be Corbyn and friends.

On ROPS

The BBC have spoilt all the fun by speaking to the head Librarian of the Czech secret service and it turns out that uncle Corbys file had a 1 in front of it denoting he was of special interest whereas to be a full blown collaborater you needed a 4. Diane Aboot was a 7129 er 60.

Jan Sarkocy (real name Janosc Villiac) was, as I've already stated on this thread, exposed as a bluffer and phantasist by the Czech authorities in 2003, when he offered to "out" any number of German politicians who were also paid large sums of dosh. Corbyn and Co allegedly received ten grand apiece, but to date no-one has produced any receipts for the amounts or even any proof that they were ever paid.

There's also all the bollix about him having met with this person or with that person, but there's little to no mention of Theresa May meeting with the Saudis and other despots, or that creature Thatcher being great friends with the South African dictators or Pinochet (among many others).

MsG

Isch's Ziit füer aas Chücherli?

stacker1 is a MIME (Minimal Intelligence, Maximum Ego) and a textbook example of the Dunning-Kruger Effect.

LE

Sky actually discussing Labour MPs taking payment to meet spies. It seemed to me at least that the news presenter and the Mirror journalist seemed to be keen to play it down. The other guest, rightly aired his concerns. BBC silent as ever.

'silent as ever' or on the front page of their website yesterday........strange concept of the word 'silent'

“Every miserable fool who has nothing he can be proud of, adopts as a last resource pride in the nation to which he belongs; he is ready and happy to defend all its faults and follies tooth and nail, thus reimbursing himself for his own inferiority.”

LE

Jan Sarkocy (real name Janosc Villiac) was, as I've already stated on this thread, exposed as a bluffer and phantasist by the Czech authorities in 2003, when he offered to "out" any number of German politicians who were also paid large sums of dosh. Corbyn and Co allegedly received ten grand apiece, but to date no-one has produced any receipts for the amounts or even any proof that they were ever paid.

There's also all the bollix about him having met with this person or with that person, but there's little to no mention of Theresa May meeting with the Saudis and other despots, or that creature Thatcher being great friends with the South African dictators or Pinochet (among many others).