Search results for 'tronix'

Hello guys.
Im considering buying into the deck. And the first question I have if there is a way to play a fetchless version of it.

And im thinking if I should wait to buy the phoenixes now or wait for it to drop... I already have 2 of them. Same goes for thing in the ice. I own 2 of them and could borrow another 2 if I wanted to play it somewhere

yeah you can play fetchless, using Shivan Reefs with a full set of spirebluffs + steam vents. pretty much the fetchless storm manabase. i wouldnt consider it as good as a fetch base since you will likely take more self inflicted damage, also you lose access to blood moon out of the side which isnt going to be good in every meta or matchup but is one of the most potent cards when it is. alpine moon would be your alternative.

imo the choice to buy the 2 phoenixes is dependent on how quickly you wanna play the deck. they have peaked in price because the hype wave is still in full swing. they arent going to plummet or anything, but just recognize you are (now) paying a premium to play a archetype/deck that a whole lotta other people want to play as well. for reference ive been watching the price of phoenix (as well as titi, and manamorphose), and they have all stabilized and held steady for a month and a half; so dont worry about missing out because its very unlikely prices go up significantly.

just wanna note that i borrowed the cards to play that Goryo's Phoenix deck last evening. easy 4-0. i ran hot with die rolls, muligans, and a few timely draws; but the deck was gas lol. turns out a 7/7 evasive lifelinker with haste is pretty good at winning races against red aggressive decks

yeah that mono-R list looks more like a sligh/RDW deck featuring prowess with phoenix as a backup plan that sometimes nuts on your opponent.

temur phoenix is certainly interesting since its a case of fully embracing 3 colors, which either hasnt been explored as much or just has failed to post any results. traverse for value or to grab another phoenix to discard opens a lot of different lines of play.

another phoenix variant that has picked up a bit of traction is goryo's phoenix. it includes the goryo's + griselbrand package as another combo/explosive axis of attack. still subject to GY hate, and maybe a bit too much going on to be consistent - but it looks fun.

The Fluff made a comparison between ur phoenix and affinity, and i think it is apt to a degree. the 'skill floor' for the deck to realize most of its power isnt particularly hard to achieve. affinity is the same way, but still widely considered one of the hardest decks to master because of its deep combat math required to squeeze out extra points of damage.

ur phoenix doesnt play on combat math like affinity, but the amount of selection and sequencing that goes on with the cantrips gives a large number of optimization points. so its shifting gamestate analysis combined with multiple small probability plays. sometimes you wanna max your ability to see more cheap cantrips, other times a phoenix or other threat, or maybe its a sideboard card. small things like fetching when maybe you dont need the mana right then, scrying cards away at certain times or shuffling them back in, or just choosing what cantrips to use when can leave percentage points on the table.

i dunno ive just never like bedlam reveler much, so i cant really get behind running a full set. even in the mono-R versions id still probably be on 2-3, and that is with more discard outlets with tormenting voice.

id be interested to hear how the empty the warrens plan works out. when i was first puttering around with the deck i thought itd be cool, but i didnt/dont have the brewing capacity to try it out.

as for moving off of arclight entirely...well that kinda defeats the purpose lol

personally id recommend giving the stock-ish UR build another try. the deck does have a lot of 'do nothing' cards, until they suddenly become 'do something that threatens to win the game'. so the spinning of wheels can be deceiving because you arent building up to any one thing, but just whatever happens first: bring back phoenix(s), flip thing, or a huge drake. swiftspear ive found to be a roleplayer that ties the room together as that added bit of pressure either in the big turn or just chipping to get the opponent lower.

side note: i wouldnt recommend blood moon without a fetch mana base. even in regular ur phoenix running 5-6 fetches blood moon is a dubious proposition because the deck is so color hungry.

yeah UR phoenix is weird in that it its like a red deck that needs and or can only use a specific facet of blue. when the deck isnt suited to using a primary means of interaction (countermagic) of one of its colors - it is going to show.

when arclight phoenix started showing up in modern i questioned whether a shell could be found that can find a balance of getting the recursion online while still making reactionary plays. in other words, finding the minimum cost of enabling phoenix. i cant be sure what that mightve looked like, but i believe it would have something to do with not having to play manamorphose. there hasnt been evidence that this is possible (that ive seen anyways).

we are limited to the suite of 1 cmc countermagic. unfortunately one of them isnt Stubborn Denial and cant be played main. still really powerful stuff going on with our goldfish speed and a strong edge against certain creature decks, but not a lot of flexibility should mean the deck will wax and wane proportionally to format cycling.

i just wanna say that UR phoenix really showcases the power of serum visions. ive never played a deck that could use it better, and with access to faithless looting i would speculate it uses it better than gifts storm.

yeah i figure its because its an instant that is 'free'. its not especially good, particularly without any discard or land destruction. in my experience (playing jeskai/UW) its even marginal against kci because you really wanna be hitting krark-clan ironworks itself lest they just work around it with stupid rules interactions. also UR phoenix isnt playing snapcaster, which makes surgical so much better.

in terms of spells that hit the GY its slim pickings, and pretty much nonexistent in UR. ravenous trap is pretty good, but not all GY decks are operating in a manner that will turn it on consistently.

as for ral, izzet viceroy: a bomb for fairish matchups makes sense. ive heard good things about it; such as it out-performing jace in blue moon decks. its ubiquity in phoenix lists though speaks of either outstanding power level, or its just pretty good and a bunch of people are playing it because its new. one thing i do like is that it has a beacon bolt attached. the whole counting exiled cards thing. crackling drake probably isnt even playable without it.

The third colour leads to a horrendous mana stretch anyway. Outside of an insane benefit we'd get out of a new synergistic card printed, it appears not to be worthwhile.

yeah i definitely noticed how mana can be tight even on UR. normally UR decks lean so heavily towards blue they can just get red online when necessary, but the red requirements in UR phoenix are high. like fetching an island early on definitely bit me in the ass a few times because i only considered what i needed right then rather than what i might possibly need 2 or 3 turns later.

unrelated: so what is the deal with ral, izzet viceroy? is it like some exceptional 1-of? or is it just showing up consistently in lists because that is what people won with. he just looks like a generic 'kill dudes draw cards', so i must be missing something.

with black i guess you could shore up some matchups by running Unmoored Ego. duress and collective brutality are alright but not haymakers.

i think white and green have more to offer overall though. ive seen some lists with a light white splash to load up on stony silence and maybe a path. after thinking about AV i entertained the idea for some temur build using Search for Tomorrow to leverage the delayed mana generation, but i couldnt see anywhere to go from that point lol. im a pretty crappy brewer. its like that joke about candy corn; you just cant help yourself from trying it every once and a while and then you immediately regret it.

i do like stuff such as become immense, various naturalize effects, life gain, etc. simple utility stuff. mutagenic growth and noxious revival aint bad either, and i could see actually having green mana to save some life giving a few percentage points.

edit: ah yeh for counterspells im thinking of trying out a single Annul for some extra game against enchantments, Delay also seems applicable, and of course some Disrupting Shoal tech straight outa bloo. i think there are enough blue cards for Commandeer as well.

I had AV in some of my lists last week. The idea was cast it turn 1, durdle and craft a hand, drop a threat (Thing/Kiln Fiend) turn 4 and go off. It never worked out as its simply too slow, or at least seems to be online.

I've had far more success with just chains of cantrips. 4 x Serum, Opt, Manamorphose and 2 Sleight has allowed for some very well managed turns that have resulted in wins where less cantrips, or less control (Thought Scour) would not have.

The ideal still seems to be, land a Thing/Fiend on Turn 2, ideally with Swiftspear Turn 1, and then Turn 3 go off with a Manamorphose and swing in with Thing, or they just die if you have a Fiend out.

That said, long games do happen. I had one go to Turn 13 against a Red Ritual/Hazoret/Prison deck, I was down to 11 Cards, empty hand, but that turn started with my Thing at 4 Counters, and ended with me swinging in for 13 (Thing + 2 Phoenix).

If MTGO wasnt an absolute chore to watch replay's I would go back and look at how it unfolded again.

yeah that makes sense. i guess im just thinking of those rare matchups against some fair midrange or control deck lol, i just imagine playing against a phoenix deck running 4 as jeskai. having it turn 1 is the dream, but running enough copies to see it reliably early game are slots probably better used with other stuff.

anywho i just started with ross merriam's list. i think 2-of thought scour is alright. serum visions gives you a bit of agency over the flips. so higher upside than sleight when also considering lucking out by hitting 1 or 2 phoenix. sleight is more consistent because of situations like you described, just chaining cantrips.

ive only played other people with the deck once so far, got 5 matches against hollow one(W), jeskai control(L), spirits(W), GW value (W), amulet(L). the deck is strong, but i played it pretty bad. there are a lot of small sequencing nuances with cantrips and mana usage that i messed up with; especially with manamorphose.

im already thinking about splashing a third color, but hopefully ill resist the temptation and just get reps in with a 'stock' list. hopefully

so im on the phoenix train now. bit the bullet for some arclights because ive been so enamored with the standard deck on arena. had a set of thing in the ice sitting in my binder from back when it was printed.

one question. why has AV never shown up in lists? maybe not main deck material because you wanna be fast out the gates, but it seems like something that would just bury slower interactive decks while also being 'free' the turn it is cast (and giving you 3 more cards).