Update: As a quick update to the post we wanted to ensure clarity so that people don’t start freaking out over the verbiage in the image. A loophole exists in T-Mobile’s systems that allows for employees to remove data features a before customer fulfills the required contract term. This will NOT force a customer to have a data requirement if they do not want…if some representatives in the comments are correct in their interpretation of this image. The language of course is confusing but such is the world of information leaks. Let’s wait a few more days before jumping the gun entirely on what this image truly means.

As of August 8th T-Mobile is making a change to ensure that customers fulfill their contractually obligated data requirements. T-Mobile is looking to ensure that customers fulfill any contractually required data plan. The current loophole that allows for employees to remove the data plan before the end of the data plan contract term will be removed effective August 8th. This will not enforce a data plan for all full price buyers, only the completion of any contractually required data plan.

About David Beren

David is the founder and Editor-in-Chief of TmoNews.com. He considers himself a Jedi Knight, capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound and a connoisseur of fine cell phones. He has been involved in the wireless industry since 2003 and has been known to swap out phones far too many times in any given year. Should you wish to contact him, you can do so: david@tmonews.com.

This not clear at all, I think no one is sure what plans they talking about, the only ones that do require data is classic plan, not value.
If you look into value, for example: $79.99 family plan says Unlimited Talk + Text for 2 lines, it dos not say anything about data being included in the price. It’s the opposite, if you look into features it clearly says that Data Access=NONE. For data you have an option to choose the right amount for each individual line.
So I don’t see any commitment issues with Value Plans. But in Classic Plans it’s always was a requirement for subsidized phone.

Stephanie29

??? I thought they had already made it a requirement for people to get a data plan with a smartphone??? Idk…*shrugs*.

Stephanie29

??? I thought they had already made it a requirement for people to get a data plan with a smartphone??? Idk…*shrugs*.

http://twitter.com/NuoTang Nuo Tang

Right, I’m sure that’s the first comment from Tmobile employees. “We have a loophole” so that we make less profit.

http://www.facebook.com/matt.mingkee Matt Tsui

How about EM+/Value plan customers who buy in MSRP or BYOP????? They’re NOT obliged to pay for internet.

http://www.tearyne.net Tearyne

I am not. I have a G1 (bought it used many years after it came out) and I don’t have to pay for internet. I hardly use it, to be honest – I use my old Gravity due to battery issues or something with the G1. The trade-off is that if you don’t have the bill set to automatically pay the phone might randomly be off, but it’s nice to not have a contract. One month I had no use for cell service – mostly used Google Voice – so I didn’t have to pay for the phone.

Anonymous

you meant obligated and the answer is No.

Paynej

Very interesting. The tmobile rep recommended this option to me when I bought a dell streak 7 in Feb of this year.

I already had a nexus one, but my hang up on the purchase was having a data plan on the phone I would never use. She talked to her manager , then they sold me a cheap LG gs170 and the dell streak 7, activated everything and then even told me I could put my sim back in the nexus one if I wanted too.

Seems like the issue is shady salemanship as much as customers. Btw, returned the dell streak 7 due to horrible battery life and now i swap the sim beteen the LG and the nexus one depending on what I’m doing.

I don’t feel guilty because the salesman introduced me to this loophole

MightbeWrong

What i
understand by reading this is that Anyone already with a Required Data Feature
must keep it. Just because you are buying another phone at full price doesnt mean you
can take off the feature you required when you bought your previous Smartphonedevice.

Reps Are selling customers A basic cheap phone to customers then calling to take off the required Web Feature.
THats how its being misused.

http://twitter.com/turbosix turbosix

this is bullshit. i have been trying to use my 2nd line as an upgrade to get myself a new phone w/o adding a data plan (2nd line is my grandma.. her dumbphone works just fine) and tmo employees have been telling me that it’s impossible to remove data once a smartphone purchase is made.

according to this, they’ve been lying to me the whole time.

MightbeWrong

they are not lying its a required feature.. If you buy a smartphone the data feature has to go on that line you are upgrading and you cant take it off until you finish your contract.

now lets say in a few weeks you go back and buy a simple phone at retail price. the rep can call and take off the required web because you purchesed another phone that doest require web. but thats going away august 8. AND ITS MISUSING THE SYSTEM!

But T-Mobile Reps dont Lie :)

http://twitter.com/turbosix turbosix

i already pay for data, dude. not to mention i bought my vibrant in store on launch day.

$249.99 + $18 upgrade fee (also bs) + tax = $290 – $50 MIR = $240

so i paid $240 for the damn thing out of pocket. a week later walmart is selling the phone for $149.99, no MIR, nothing. and i cant take the phone back to tmobile because i “used” my upgrade already and a walmart cell phone rep cant “override” it.

tmobile got my money and my contract extension. they also charged me quite a bit more than walmart would’ve.

who is screwing who here?

(edit) i forgot to add: to top it off, every other damn carrier’s SGS version is getting official 2.3 from samsung except the vibrant… i wonder why.

H8stylist

just to be clear, so you are blaming tmobile because you didn’t check around before buying your phone? that’s like buying a computer at best buy, then blaming best buy when frye’s has the same computer on sale for cheaper. everything sale changes from week to week and there is always that chance of getting buyers remorse. but you can’t blame the store you bought it from that someone else had it cheaper.

http://twitter.com/turbosix turbosix

that isn’t what i said at all… not even close.

the point is, i should be able to use my upgrade and lock myself into a 2 year contract to get a discount if i want. i’m already paying for the data and i’m not using twice the data so requiring me to add data on a line that isn’t using any is ridiculous.

http://twitter.com/turbosix turbosix

that isn’t what i said at all… not even close.

the point is, i should be able to use my upgrade and lock myself into a 2 year contract to get a discount if i want. i’m already paying for the data and i’m not using twice the data so requiring me to add data on a line that isn’t using any is ridiculous.

http://twitter.com/turbosix turbosix

that isn’t what i said at all… not even close.

the point is, i should be able to use my upgrade and lock myself into a 2 year contract to get a discount if i want. i’m already paying for the data and i’m not using twice the data so requiring me to add data on a line that isn’t using any is ridiculous.

H8stylist

first, half of your second post was about how you paid more at tmobile than at walmart and couldn’t return it due to walmart not being able to reset your upgrade eligibility.

but tmobile has never endorsed the idea of using your upgrade on different lines. if you talk to a csr rep, they normally will not offer it freely. if it’s possible to do (non smart phones, or a line that already has data) i would do it for the customer, but i make sure to inform them of the requirement. the reason is warranty eligibility, confusion between lines on upgrade eligibility, and data requirements that may or may not be useful. not to mention you can’t transfer contractual responsibilities between lines like that. if you signed a contract for data responsibility on your grandma’s line and it is switched to your line (but you didn’t sign anything) it could easily be disputed at a later date and removed.

http://twitter.com/turbosix turbosix

the point of bringing up the cost was to preempt anyone saying “well they’re giving you a discount so you should have to pay exorbitant data plan fees to make up for it.” i’ve had cell phones for awhile now and the off contract prices have always been about $500-600 for a high end phone, on contract prices usually around half that. back in the day, the reason you got a discount is because they were guaranteed your monthly cell service fee for 24 months. now, they’re guaranteeing a monthly service fee AND a data plan. they are certainly making a profit off of me even though they’re ponying up a couple hundred (from my perspective.. no idea what kind of price tmobile actually pays for the phones direct from manufacturer.)

the reason this pissed me off in the first place is because it was completely normal back in the days of no required data. you could easily time upgrades 180 days apart and always have a nice new phone, and tmobile has their claws in me for 3(!!) years.

i’ve been with tmobile for a god awful amount of time because of this, and havent really had any issues except for this one. which is a biggie. i like the service, coverage, etc… but for them to put a blanket policy out there like this is kinda shitty.

why? what about the people that legitimately lose their phones? or ones that change their mind? sure your mom might have thought it was cool to have a smartphone for a month… then she gets tired of it because its too complicated and wants a normal phone. everyone is SOL.

there’s got to be another way to do this.

H8stylist

the problem with your logic is that you base things off of how you operate. rules are made off of the people who find ways to take advantage of others not the people who play things straight. i don’t know about upgrade switching with other carriers, however, i do know that every carrier has a requirement for data on all smartphones at the very least (some have requirements for texting on regular phones).

you are correct that you are responsible for both lines, and have authority to upgrade either whenever you so choose. however, you can’t compare times now with how they were even 2 years ago. the phones are far more advanced. so much so that i have talked to some that use their phone as their only computer basically.
i remember the first smartphones were not even useful to your average person. i am sure any reasonable person will not argue against the data feature requirement for smartphones. the requirement is there to make sure the device is capable of being used as intended. the phones were designed around being connected to the internet, not just making phone calls and texting. without the internet you can’t update your phone, you can’t get picture messages, and it may not even store the right time.

as of right now the best thing i can tell everyone who buys a cellphone is to make sure that you understand everything. don’t want to buy a phone that is too complicated? borrow a friends phone and play around with it. go to a store and use a demo model. ask for others opinions on different models. read reviews online or do something as simple as returning the phone within buyers remorse. worried about losing your phone 6 months later? get insurance. paying 130.00 for a deductible is much better than dealing with the hassle of not only getting a replacement, but stressing over paying for a feature that you may not even have a use for anymore. it has never made sense to me to get a 400.00 or more phone (subsidized to 200 or less) and not carry insurance on it. people always try to associate the 130.00 with 200.00 and not the 400.00 it would cost to replace if you didn’t have insurance.

i am sure that if you step back and look at things from a company’s perspective (not even a tmobile perspective, more like how would you do it if you owned a company), saw people taking advantage of a system, you would try to close any loopholes to make sure that you are still being a profitable company.

http://twitter.com/turbosix turbosix

a blanket policy change like this is not the way to do it. they could be more specific with their policies to keep people from trying to scam them, versus people like me who just want to pay them money for a new phone and extend my contract for 2 more years.

this is the laziest way they could accomplish this.

jarjon76

A “blanket policy” is the only logical way to prevent people like you from further cheating the system. People like you amuse me–you want, want, want, but don’t want to give anything back for that want. You then throw a hissy fit because T-Mobile is on to your scheme and have the nerve to blame them for your “troubles”. Put away the victim card, please.

jarjon76

A “blanket policy” is the only logical way to prevent people like you from further cheating the system. People like you amuse me–you want, want, want, but don’t want to give anything back for that want. You then throw a hissy fit because T-Mobile is on to your scheme and have the nerve to blame them for your “troubles”. Put away the victim card, please.

Nb12sp

Some (all) of you are missing the point.

Its not cheating the system. Im locking myself into a 3year contract.

Handset discounts were initially given because you’re locking yourself into a 2year contract with the carrier.

Now they’ve brainwashed you all into thinking this is no longer the case. The phones are no more expensive on or off contract than they have been in the past.

Suddenly its okay to force a data plan service into the already normal two year plan agreement?

Pathetic.

Again: if I upgrade handsets I’m willingly committing to staying with T-Mobile for 3years. That’s one year on line one and two years on line two.

Guaranteed profit and guaranteed customer for 3years, with one active data plan.

Yes, that should count for something. Its pretty sad that some of you don’t understand that.

Nb12sp

Some (all) of you are missing the point.

Its not cheating the system. Im locking myself into a 3year contract.

Handset discounts were initially given because you’re locking yourself into a 2year contract with the carrier.

Now they’ve brainwashed you all into thinking this is no longer the case. The phones are no more expensive on or off contract than they have been in the past.

Suddenly its okay to force a data plan service into the already normal two year plan agreement?

Pathetic.

Again: if I upgrade handsets I’m willingly committing to staying with T-Mobile for 3years. That’s one year on line one and two years on line two.

Guaranteed profit and guaranteed customer for 3years, with one active data plan.

Yes, that should count for something. Its pretty sad that some of you don’t understand that.

Anonymous

T-Mobile getting profit? If I’m not mistaken, T-Mobile requires those data plans in order to generate profit for a lot users (especially on family plans). If you get multiple subsidized smartphones and only pay for one data plan, then you’re most likely unprofitable. You’re taking away $240-$720 in revenue for each device you get and switch over to your line, and with smartphone subsidies in the $200-$300 range, T-Mobile is barely making profit, or just flat out losing money on a good amount of these transactions (factoring in the $9.99 add-a-line fee). It’s easier for carriers like Verizon and AT&T to pull this off with their customers because of the much higher revenue they pull in, but by doing this to T-Mobile, you’re one of the reasons that DT is getting rid of T-Mobile and selling them to AT&T.

- VDubb

H8stylist

people seem to think two things. one, that it’s wrong for tmobile to try to make a profit off of customers. i can’t recall how many people would call in after a new top end phone would come out and get calls like ” i haven’t upgraded in 18 months, and i have been with your company 4 years, i deserve a free sensation”. if you were to go to HTC and buy this phone direct (if it were possible) you would be paying them over 400.00 atleast. your phone wouldn’t have the software necessary to operate properly on tmobile’s network either. so asking any company regardless of tenure to discount a phone past the point of profitability is basically stating “i don’t care if you are around in the future”, but the customer thinks they are saying “if you want to appreciate my loyalty you would do this”.

i don’t know what margin % the rate plans are, but i guarantee there is a massive misconception on how much money tmobile makes off of their rate plans. rate plans may pay the light bill, but tmobile lives on features. when i first started with tmobile (2007 so the numbers might not be valid now) they stated that they made about 3.00 off of a 29.99 plan. and as the plans go up, of course the margin does too, but it just goes to show that while you think you are paying tmobile a lot of money, you aren’t making them as much profit as you think.

H8stylist

people seem to think two things. one, that it’s wrong for tmobile to try to make a profit off of customers. i can’t recall how many people would call in after a new top end phone would come out and get calls like ” i haven’t upgraded in 18 months, and i have been with your company 4 years, i deserve a free sensation”. if you were to go to HTC and buy this phone direct (if it were possible) you would be paying them over 400.00 atleast. your phone wouldn’t have the software necessary to operate properly on tmobile’s network either. so asking any company regardless of tenure to discount a phone past the point of profitability is basically stating “i don’t care if you are around in the future”, but the customer thinks they are saying “if you want to appreciate my loyalty you would do this”.

i don’t know what margin % the rate plans are, but i guarantee there is a massive misconception on how much money tmobile makes off of their rate plans. rate plans may pay the light bill, but tmobile lives on features. when i first started with tmobile (2007 so the numbers might not be valid now) they stated that they made about 3.00 off of a 29.99 plan. and as the plans go up, of course the margin does too, but it just goes to show that while you think you are paying tmobile a lot of money, you aren’t making them as much profit as you think.

Anonymous

This is hands down the dumbest comment of this thread of replies. Lets start from the top.

T-Mobile does not allow you to sign a 3 year contract, so if you have a 3 year contract you are either in Canada, on Wirefly, or unable to distinguish between a 2 and a 3.

Handset discounts (subsidies to the informed) are given when you lock into a contract because that’s how the money lost on subsidizing a handset is recuperated. You think a Sensation costs $12 to make and T-Mobile sells it to you for $200 and turns a profit? Why do you think prepaid carriers such as Boost, Virgin and Metro dont subsidize handsets?

The phones are no more expensive off contract than they have been in the past? If you want to buy the phone off of contract you wouldnt even have a data requirement, where are you going with this argument?

Force a data plan? What are you going to do with a MT4G Slide without data? Use it as a paperweight? Show off your cameraphone to your friend? The OS is reliant upon web and not having web negatively impacts the experience with the handset, not to mention it’s to make up the cost (all carriers do this by the way but when T-Mobile does it they are evil)

No 3 year contracts, no guaranteed data for 3 years, you are 100% wrong about everything you have said, please go read a book or something.

jarjon76

Yes, you completely missed the point and you’re in way over your head. Where are you getting this 3 yr contract business? And having a smartphone without a data plan is like having a car with no engine. Yet another over dramatic consumer trying to paint themselves as a “victim” because they can’t have, have, have.

Graham

I don’t get to tell people this in my store, so I’ll tell you here. TMo sets prices and policies based on what the market will bear. I sell more data phones than non-data, and selling one unsubsidized is a rare occurrence indeed. Clearly the market will bear this. We are a FOR PROFIT company. Ask the IRS. You’re damn right we make money from you. If you don’t like it, GET OUT OF MY STORE AND GET A F#@KING LANDLINE YOU CRYBABY!!!!

Graham

I don’t get to tell people this in my store, so I’ll tell you here. TMo sets prices and policies based on what the market will bear. I sell more data phones than non-data, and selling one unsubsidized is a rare occurrence indeed. Clearly the market will bear this. We are a FOR PROFIT company. Ask the IRS. You’re damn right we make money from you. If you don’t like it, GET OUT OF MY STORE AND GET A F#@KING LANDLINE YOU CRYBABY!!!!

http://www.tearyne.net Tearyne

Tl;dr: you’re mad that you can’t game the system and get a shiny new phone whenever you want it.

Grow up.

jarjon76

In other words, you’re mad because you can’t skirt around a contract YOU signed and are blaming everyone except yourself. People like you are why these changes are being made. Of course, you think you’re entitled to something because you’ve been with T-Mobile for a long time & you pay your bill on time (presumably). In other words you want to be rewarded for doing what you agreed to do in the first place. You’re unreal.

jarjon76

In other words, you’re mad because you can’t skirt around a contract YOU signed and are blaming everyone except yourself. People like you are why these changes are being made. Of course, you think you’re entitled to something because you’ve been with T-Mobile for a long time & you pay your bill on time (presumably). In other words you want to be rewarded for doing what you agreed to do in the first place. You’re unreal.

http://twitter.com/turbosix turbosix

the point of bringing up the cost was to preempt anyone saying “well they’re giving you a discount so you should have to pay exorbitant data plan fees to make up for it.” i’ve had cell phones for awhile now and the off contract prices have always been about $500-600 for a high end phone, on contract prices usually around half that. back in the day, the reason you got a discount is because they were guaranteed your monthly cell service fee for 24 months. now, they’re guaranteeing a monthly service fee AND a data plan. they are certainly making a profit off of me even though they’re ponying up a couple hundred (from my perspective.. no idea what kind of price tmobile actually pays for the phones direct from manufacturer.)

the reason this pissed me off in the first place is because it was completely normal back in the days of no required data. you could easily time upgrades 180 days apart and always have a nice new phone, and tmobile has their claws in me for 3(!!) years.

i’ve been with tmobile for a god awful amount of time because of this, and havent really had any issues except for this one. which is a biggie. i like the service, coverage, etc… but for them to put a blanket policy out there like this is kinda shitty.

why? what about the people that legitimately lose their phones? or ones that change their mind? sure your mom might have thought it was cool to have a smartphone for a month… then she gets tired of it because its too complicated and wants a normal phone. everyone is SOL.

there’s got to be another way to do this.

http://twitter.com/turbosix turbosix

the point of bringing up the cost was to preempt anyone saying “well they’re giving you a discount so you should have to pay exorbitant data plan fees to make up for it.” i’ve had cell phones for awhile now and the off contract prices have always been about $500-600 for a high end phone, on contract prices usually around half that. back in the day, the reason you got a discount is because they were guaranteed your monthly cell service fee for 24 months. now, they’re guaranteeing a monthly service fee AND a data plan. they are certainly making a profit off of me even though they’re ponying up a couple hundred (from my perspective.. no idea what kind of price tmobile actually pays for the phones direct from manufacturer.)

the reason this pissed me off in the first place is because it was completely normal back in the days of no required data. you could easily time upgrades 180 days apart and always have a nice new phone, and tmobile has their claws in me for 3(!!) years.

i’ve been with tmobile for a god awful amount of time because of this, and havent really had any issues except for this one. which is a biggie. i like the service, coverage, etc… but for them to put a blanket policy out there like this is kinda shitty.

why? what about the people that legitimately lose their phones? or ones that change their mind? sure your mom might have thought it was cool to have a smartphone for a month… then she gets tired of it because its too complicated and wants a normal phone. everyone is SOL.

there’s got to be another way to do this.

http://twitter.com/turbosix turbosix

the point of bringing up the cost was to preempt anyone saying “well they’re giving you a discount so you should have to pay exorbitant data plan fees to make up for it.” i’ve had cell phones for awhile now and the off contract prices have always been about $500-600 for a high end phone, on contract prices usually around half that. back in the day, the reason you got a discount is because they were guaranteed your monthly cell service fee for 24 months. now, they’re guaranteeing a monthly service fee AND a data plan. they are certainly making a profit off of me even though they’re ponying up a couple hundred (from my perspective.. no idea what kind of price tmobile actually pays for the phones direct from manufacturer.)

the reason this pissed me off in the first place is because it was completely normal back in the days of no required data. you could easily time upgrades 180 days apart and always have a nice new phone, and tmobile has their claws in me for 3(!!) years.

i’ve been with tmobile for a god awful amount of time because of this, and havent really had any issues except for this one. which is a biggie. i like the service, coverage, etc… but for them to put a blanket policy out there like this is kinda shitty.

why? what about the people that legitimately lose their phones? or ones that change their mind? sure your mom might have thought it was cool to have a smartphone for a month… then she gets tired of it because its too complicated and wants a normal phone. everyone is SOL.

there’s got to be another way to do this.

http://twitter.com/turbosix turbosix

that isn’t what i said at all… not even close.

the point is, i should be able to use my upgrade and lock myself into a 2 year contract to get a discount if i want. i’m already paying for the data and i’m not using twice the data so requiring me to add data on a line that isn’t using any is ridiculous.

http://twitter.com/turbosix turbosix

that isn’t what i said at all… not even close.

the point is, i should be able to use my upgrade and lock myself into a 2 year contract to get a discount if i want. i’m already paying for the data and i’m not using twice the data so requiring me to add data on a line that isn’t using any is ridiculous.

http://twitter.com/turbosix turbosix

that isn’t what i said at all… not even close.

the point is, i should be able to use my upgrade and lock myself into a 2 year contract to get a discount if i want. i’m already paying for the data and i’m not using twice the data so requiring me to add data on a line that isn’t using any is ridiculous.

http://twitter.com/turbosix turbosix

that isn’t what i said at all… not even close.

the point is, i should be able to use my upgrade and lock myself into a 2 year contract to get a discount if i want. i’m already paying for the data and i’m not using twice the data so requiring me to add data on a line that isn’t using any is ridiculous.

http://twitter.com/KARMA773 Karma

I SOLD THE VIBRANT NEW FOR $75 i used it for maybe a month only.

H8stylist

and to clear up common misconceptions about pricing on handsets. walmart and other authorized dealers get their phones from tmobile, not samsung, htc, motorolla, or nokia. the sole reason they sell them cheaper than tmobile is because tmobile pays them a “spiff” for each phone they sell (approx 100.00). so when you go to wal mart and see it that low, it’s because they are counting on the spiff to offset the price reduction. making up the loss in price by not only increasing sales volume, but also driving traffic into the stores and possibly getting additional sales.

if you want a great deal either check those other stores first and see if the tmobile store will match (some have price matching capabilities) or just buy it there.

H8stylist

and to clear up common misconceptions about pricing on handsets. walmart and other authorized dealers get their phones from tmobile, not samsung, htc, motorolla, or nokia. the sole reason they sell them cheaper than tmobile is because tmobile pays them a “spiff” for each phone they sell (approx 100.00). so when you go to wal mart and see it that low, it’s because they are counting on the spiff to offset the price reduction. making up the loss in price by not only increasing sales volume, but also driving traffic into the stores and possibly getting additional sales.

if you want a great deal either check those other stores first and see if the tmobile store will match (some have price matching capabilities) or just buy it there.

H8stylist

and to clear up common misconceptions about pricing on handsets. walmart and other authorized dealers get their phones from tmobile, not samsung, htc, motorolla, or nokia. the sole reason they sell them cheaper than tmobile is because tmobile pays them a “spiff” for each phone they sell (approx 100.00). so when you go to wal mart and see it that low, it’s because they are counting on the spiff to offset the price reduction. making up the loss in price by not only increasing sales volume, but also driving traffic into the stores and possibly getting additional sales.

if you want a great deal either check those other stores first and see if the tmobile store will match (some have price matching capabilities) or just buy it there.

http://twitter.com/turbosix turbosix

i already pay for data, dude. not to mention i bought my vibrant in store on launch day.

$249.99 + $18 upgrade fee (also bs) + tax = $290 – $50 MIR = $240

so i paid $240 for the damn thing out of pocket. a week later walmart is selling the phone for $149.99, no MIR, nothing. and i cant take the phone back to tmobile because i “used” my upgrade already and a walmart cell phone rep cant “override” it.

tmobile got my money and my contract extension. they also charged me quite a bit more than walmart would’ve.

who is screwing who here?

(edit) i forgot to add: to top it off, every other damn carrier’s SGS version is getting official 2.3 from samsung except the vibrant… i wonder why.

http://twitter.com/turbosix turbosix

i already pay for data, dude. not to mention i bought my vibrant in store on launch day.

$249.99 + $18 upgrade fee (also bs) + tax = $290 – $50 MIR = $240

so i paid $240 for the damn thing out of pocket. a week later walmart is selling the phone for $149.99, no MIR, nothing. and i cant take the phone back to tmobile because i “used” my upgrade already and a walmart cell phone rep cant “override” it.

tmobile got my money and my contract extension. they also charged me quite a bit more than walmart would’ve.

who is screwing who here?

(edit) i forgot to add: to top it off, every other damn carrier’s SGS version is getting official 2.3 from samsung except the vibrant… i wonder why.

http://twitter.com/turbosix turbosix

i already pay for data, dude. not to mention i bought my vibrant in store on launch day.

$249.99 + $18 upgrade fee (also bs) + tax = $290 – $50 MIR = $240

so i paid $240 for the damn thing out of pocket. a week later walmart is selling the phone for $149.99, no MIR, nothing. and i cant take the phone back to tmobile because i “used” my upgrade already and a walmart cell phone rep cant “override” it.

tmobile got my money and my contract extension. they also charged me quite a bit more than walmart would’ve.

who is screwing who here?

(edit) i forgot to add: to top it off, every other damn carrier’s SGS version is getting official 2.3 from samsung except the vibrant… i wonder why.

H8stylist

you might be wrong, but i doubt it….

H8stylist

you might be wrong, but i doubt it….

H8stylist

you might be wrong, but i doubt it….

Anonymous

You are correct friend-o.

H8stylist

my favorite situation was always when someone would call in to upgrade one of the 4 lines on the account, and the account holder used their personal upgrade to replace their sons lost phone, and now their sons upgrade was up and she wanted the latest and greatest smartphone. so of course we couldn’t move the data to her line, and she didn’t want data on his line. to top it off, she still hadn’t added insurance to her sons line

as a side note : one of the most retarded things a parent can do is give a 15 year old a smartphone and expect nothing to happen to it.

H8stylist

my favorite situation was always when someone would call in to upgrade one of the 4 lines on the account, and the account holder used their personal upgrade to replace their sons lost phone, and now their sons upgrade was up and she wanted the latest and greatest smartphone. so of course we couldn’t move the data to her line, and she didn’t want data on his line. to top it off, she still hadn’t added insurance to her sons line

as a side note : one of the most retarded things a parent can do is give a 15 year old a smartphone and expect nothing to happen to it.

H8stylist

my favorite situation was always when someone would call in to upgrade one of the 4 lines on the account, and the account holder used their personal upgrade to replace their sons lost phone, and now their sons upgrade was up and she wanted the latest and greatest smartphone. so of course we couldn’t move the data to her line, and she didn’t want data on his line. to top it off, she still hadn’t added insurance to her sons line

as a side note : one of the most retarded things a parent can do is give a 15 year old a smartphone and expect nothing to happen to it.

Gfinn

I guess they want to make sure customers switch to SPRINT and stay there or one of the other 2ndary carriers that offer the same thing for 70% of the cost. I’ve been with Tmobile before they where Tmobile but I guess its time to leave the NEST and start looking at the other offers out there. SAYLAVE T

cloudsurfer

“Sprint throws 4G Hail Mary. Stock plunges.”Sprint partners with LightSquared in 4G-LTE deal – Jul. 28, 2011
Going to Sprint may be like jumping from the frying pan into the fire…….

cloudsurfer

“Sprint throws 4G Hail Mary. Stock plunges.”Sprint partners with LightSquared in 4G-LTE deal – Jul. 28, 2011
Going to Sprint may be like jumping from the frying pan into the fire…….

H8stylist

sprints main problem is Nextel, not sprint itself. sprint actually gained over 100k customers ( not verizon or att but beats tmobiles net adds by miles). the main issue i have with sprint is a lack of wimax deployment (no wimax in my area) and with the purchase of LTE spectrum , i am not sure if there is a point in joining sprint until they build out their LTE network and handset lineup.

Gfinn

I guess they want to make sure customers switch to SPRINT and stay there or one of the other 2ndary carriers that offer the same thing for 70% of the cost. I’ve been with Tmobile before they where Tmobile but I guess its time to leave the NEST and start looking at the other offers out there. SAYLAVE T

Lawrence of Arabia

Hope it doesn’t apply to my $30 prepaid plan. I’m using the HD2.

Lawrence of Arabia

Hope it doesn’t apply to my $30 prepaid plan. I’m using the HD2.

Lawrence of Arabia

Hope it doesn’t apply to my $30 prepaid plan. I’m using the HD2.

Lawrence of Arabia

Hope it doesn’t apply to my $30 prepaid plan. I’m using the HD2.

Anonymous

I can forsee this possible scenario :

T-mobile gets the sgs2. I go and buy it at retail price. Will I be required to sign a contract even though i just want the device?

(for the record, I am off contract for a year now. If the sgs2 comes along, i may sign a deal for the price break, but i want to see my options first)

21stNow

Unless you are EMP-grandfathered, you will have to sign a contract to get a new device, whether subsidized or not.

Anonymous

No, you can buy it outright, and get a pre-paid plan.

If you want a cheaper phone, get more expensive plan, and sign a contract.

If you want a cheaper plan, buy phone outright, and sign a contract.

If you don’t want a contract, buy phone, get pre-paid plan.

21stNow

Yes, I was only considering the post-paid options, which are only contract options now.

21stNow

Yes, I was only considering the post-paid options, which are only contract options now.

21stNow

Yes, I was only considering the post-paid options, which are only contract options now.

21stNow

Unless you are EMP-grandfathered, you will have to sign a contract to get a new device, whether subsidized or not.

Anonymous

I can forsee this possible scenario :

T-mobile gets the sgs2. I go and buy it at retail price. Will I be required to sign a contract even though i just want the device?

(for the record, I am off contract for a year now. If the sgs2 comes along, i may sign a deal for the price break, but i want to see my options first)

cellychick

What this says is in the past if you bought a smartphone with a two year data lock you could get out of the data lock by puchasing a new phone that didnt have the data lock before the two years was up. Now the data lock is enforced for the whole two years even if a new phone is purchased. The system wont be updated the same day as the policy so you might be able to trick a csr into getting the data lock off if they dont read the policy.

jarjon76

Trick, meaning cheat the system. You’re part of the problem.

debbieRed

wrong, jarjon, consumers deserve freedom of choice, . your mummy left you when you were young, didn’t she…poor baby

jarjon76

You have “freedom of choice”. You can choose to play by the rules or pay the consequences. It’s that simple.

H8stylist

how is this removing your freedom of choice? tmobile is not forcing you into a smartphone. you want the smartphone without the data plan so you can show it off to everyone when you pull it out of your purse/pocket. if you want it that badly, buy it full price, don’t try to make your problems tmobile’s problems buy trying to get a subsidized price and removing the feature later.

you have plenty of choices, you just aren’t happy with the choices you have.

in short……..eat your vegetables!

Anonymous

Maybe I want the smart phone without the data plan because I have wifi everywhere I go, and the data plan is a giant waste of money.

Maybe, I want the smart phone without the data plan for some other reason.

Maybe my reasons for wanting a smart phone without a data plan are none of your freakin’ business.
Maybe T-Mobile should just be happy that I keep their service after X number of years, even when things seem to be rapidly going downhill. Maybe they should be thrilled that they can convince me to sign another contact by providing me an attractive deal on equipment.

But most certainly, YOU should check your attitude. No maybe’s about it. You act like customers are the enemy. I sympathize, I used to be the same way. Then, I got back out into the world, had to start paying full price for my cell phone service again, and I remembered how much money it costs each month to keep that service going, and I started to empathize a little more with all those people I used look down on condescendingly from atop my high cubicle perch.

Grow up.

H8stylist

now you are just being defensive, stubborn, and arrogant.

what and why you choose that phone that you want IS your business. but your options for tmobile to sell it to you is THEIR business. you have two choices, buy it full price and use it how YOU want because it is YOUR business, or you can get it subsidized and use the device how it was actually designed to be used.

customers are not the enemy, but customers also are irrational about their demands sometimes. they think that nothing they demand is unreasonable regardless of the impact to the company.

you ask me to grow up and check my attitude? apparantly you haven’t listened to yourself, mine is just a reflection of your inability to grasp reason.

H8stylist

now you are just being defensive, stubborn, and arrogant.

what and why you choose that phone that you want IS your business. but your options for tmobile to sell it to you is THEIR business. you have two choices, buy it full price and use it how YOU want because it is YOUR business, or you can get it subsidized and use the device how it was actually designed to be used.

customers are not the enemy, but customers also are irrational about their demands sometimes. they think that nothing they demand is unreasonable regardless of the impact to the company.

you ask me to grow up and check my attitude? apparantly you haven’t listened to yourself, mine is just a reflection of your inability to grasp reason.

Anonymous

Maybe I want the smart phone without the data plan because I have wifi everywhere I go, and the data plan is a giant waste of money.

Maybe, I want the smart phone without the data plan for some other reason.

Maybe my reasons for wanting a smart phone without a data plan are none of your freakin’ business.
Maybe T-Mobile should just be happy that I keep their service after X number of years, even when things seem to be rapidly going downhill. Maybe they should be thrilled that they can convince me to sign another contact by providing me an attractive deal on equipment.

But most certainly, YOU should check your attitude. No maybe’s about it. You act like customers are the enemy. I sympathize, I used to be the same way. Then, I got back out into the world, had to start paying full price for my cell phone service again, and I remembered how much money it costs each month to keep that service going, and I started to empathize a little more with all those people I used look down on condescendingly from atop my high cubicle perch.

Grow up.

Anonymous

Maybe I want the smart phone without the data plan because I have wifi everywhere I go, and the data plan is a giant waste of money.

Maybe, I want the smart phone without the data plan for some other reason.

Maybe my reasons for wanting a smart phone without a data plan are none of your freakin’ business.
Maybe T-Mobile should just be happy that I keep their service after X number of years, even when things seem to be rapidly going downhill. Maybe they should be thrilled that they can convince me to sign another contact by providing me an attractive deal on equipment.

But most certainly, YOU should check your attitude. No maybe’s about it. You act like customers are the enemy. I sympathize, I used to be the same way. Then, I got back out into the world, had to start paying full price for my cell phone service again, and I remembered how much money it costs each month to keep that service going, and I started to empathize a little more with all those people I used look down on condescendingly from atop my high cubicle perch.

Grow up.

cellychick

Im not the problem my dumb coworkers who misinform customers and get tricked are the problem. Im treated like the probelm because im not good at tricking people into increasing their bill. Im a good ethical csr, but because i dont get tricked or msinform my customers im wrong. Im a knowledgeable csr, but thats not what is important to the company now. They want contracts and money from the customers. My manager told me its not even about resolving the issue any more its about sales. This company is going in the toilet and i dont want to get flushed with it but i have to find another job first. Besides the problem is at people in this generation are dicks! Do you know how many times a day someone screams at me because they didnt pay their bill and got suspened? I didnt do anything wrong pay you bill and your phone wont get suspended and how dare you speak to someone in a manner like that. This society is going to crap to. People need to learn to respect one another.

jarjon76

Trick, meaning cheat the system. You’re part of the problem.

Lawrence of Arabia

Fudge I was about to do the loophole but I dunno if I should now

Lawrence of Arabia

Fudge I was about to do the loophole but I dunno if I should now

Anonymous

This move could be a sign of the iPhone 5 coming to T-Mobile. Since the iPhone has one of, if not, the highest subsidy hit on carriers, this could be put into effect to prevent T-Mobile from losing money from people who buy it and just move it to a line they already took a subsidy hit on and haven’t fulfilled their contract.

Anonymous

Okay i get the whole, subsidies are for the data plans. But forcing me to pay over $240 to $720 on data for a $150 dollar subsidy is a bit ridiculous.

My case: My “Smartphone” is crap and i’m not going to pay that kind of money if i can’t even do the simplest things on it regardless of whether i have 3G data or not. Its simply not worth the money. I’m paying $58 dollars a month for calling and texting, which is all i need the phone for.

When i get a phone that is capable and can take advantage of 3G data well enough, (WP7 mango, Nokia N9, iPhone), then i’ll add my $10 data plan to make them happy. But by then it will be at&t so it won’t matter anyway.

Anonymous

In most cases people are paying $480 (2 years of $20 data) for a $300 (average super phone subsidy) discount. T-Mobile doesnt turn a profit until the 16th month. They are here to turn a profit in case you didnt realize. Contrary to popular belief on this site, T-Mobile is actually not a non-profit organization supplying wireless to the homeless and under-privileged.

Anonymous

Okay. I understand what you are saying, which has little to do with what I was trying to say.

My deal is that if i get a phone that only has a $150 or $200 dollar subsidy, why would I “want” to pay the same amount in data plans as someone who got a $300 or $400 subsidy. I understand that’s the way life is and how the market works, but am I not allowed to dislike it?

Subsidies are nothing but gimmicks for profit, which I understand from a business standpoint is a good thing for t-mobile. But why should I as a consumer “encourage” it?

They didn’t make me sign up for data. That is their fault for not doing so. Why should I then sign up if I don’t want to use the data. I’m okay with them enforcing these new rules, but i’m going to enjoy my time without data charges.

Anonymous

Okay. I understand what you are saying, which has little to do with what I was trying to say.

My deal is that if i get a phone that only has a $150 or $200 dollar subsidy, why would I “want” to pay the same amount in data plans as someone who got a $300 or $400 subsidy. I understand that’s the way life is and how the market works, but am I not allowed to dislike it?

Subsidies are nothing but gimmicks for profit, which I understand from a business standpoint is a good thing for t-mobile. But why should I as a consumer “encourage” it?

They didn’t make me sign up for data. That is their fault for not doing so. Why should I then sign up if I don’t want to use the data. I’m okay with them enforcing these new rules, but i’m going to enjoy my time without data charges.

Anonymous

Your last paragraph shows you DON’T know what I’m talking about. They can’t force you into data usage if you don’t have it, this applies solely to people with data trying to loophole out of it. Secondly, you are allowed to dislike it and even circumvent it; Buy the phone at invoice and you can do whatever you want, no subsidies no evil wireless company. Sitting down complaining about something you don’t understand is useless.

Anonymous

Your last paragraph shows you DON’T know what I’m talking about. They can’t force you into data usage if you don’t have it, this applies solely to people with data trying to loophole out of it. Secondly, you are allowed to dislike it and even circumvent it; Buy the phone at invoice and you can do whatever you want, no subsidies no evil wireless company. Sitting down complaining about something you don’t understand is useless.

Anonymous

Okay. I understand what you are saying, which has little to do with what I was trying to say.

My deal is that if i get a phone that only has a $150 or $200 dollar subsidy, why would I “want” to pay the same amount in data plans as someone who got a $300 or $400 subsidy. I understand that’s the way life is and how the market works, but am I not allowed to dislike it?

Subsidies are nothing but gimmicks for profit, which I understand from a business standpoint is a good thing for t-mobile. But why should I as a consumer “encourage” it?

They didn’t make me sign up for data. That is their fault for not doing so. Why should I then sign up if I don’t want to use the data. I’m okay with them enforcing these new rules, but i’m going to enjoy my time without data charges.

HonestyCorner

Your conclusions are based on highly unlikely assumptions and “facts”.

When T-Mobile “subsidizes” a $499.99 phone with a $250 subsidy (their largest current instant subsidy; the small additional rebate requires factoring in likeliness that it will ever be redeemed and paid), they are “subsidizing” off of full retail price. And if you are paying full retail price for anything these days, you are just a poor shopper and wasting money.

Most businesses mark up products at least 100%. Let’s say that $499.99 phone cost T-Mobile $250 in bulk quanities. They then sell it to you “subsidized” for $250. T-Mobile doesn’t lose a penny, and they just roped you into a monthly contract for data (plus an activation fee or silly “upgrade” fee).

T-Mobile is likely turning a hefty profit almost instantly.

Also, by selling you a smart phone with a data plan, they have established another channel of making even more profit from you.

T-Mobile didn’t get to be worth billions of dollars/euros by being stupid. But they did hire a lot of stupid and poorly educated people (some who post routinely on these forums) who are afraid that T-Mobile is constantly giving away everything and creating a world of “entitled” customers. T-Mobile knows what they are doing. They know how to generate a profit. Don’t worry about “protecting” them. When reps do this, they are just interfering with T-Mobile’s goal of good will towards their customers. This good will has been key to their success, much to the ignorance of many posters here (this whole site is derived from that good will). And in the rare event that T-Mobile does find a specific problem with their model, they will fix it, as this story shows.

H8stylist

Your conclusions are based on highly unlikely assumptions and “facts” = your post = irony……i lol’ed
you have no idea what t-mobile pays for their phones they get from samsung, motorolla, nokia, htc, etc. so you have no idea how much they do or do not mark up the retail price of the phone. margins for electronics is not what it was in the 80s. margins when i worked in a major electronics store for a tv dropped from 30% to 10% in a matter of 5 years due to how much the market has changed. so if you think for even a moment that the difference between the MSRP and the price on tmobile’s website is more than a few dollars you know nothing of the electronics industry. if you have one shred of proof to give you a leg to stand on, i will applaud you for it.

if you like i can post quarterly results from the past 2 years to show you where you are wrong in thinking tmobiles business model was working to a point that they would not need to make drastic changes to improve profitability. you are naive sir, and like to boast about knowledge you clearly do not have. if you care to prove me wrong, i challenge to show proof, otherwise all you are doing is trying to stir the masses.

H8stylist

Your conclusions are based on highly unlikely assumptions and “facts” = your post = irony……i lol’ed
you have no idea what t-mobile pays for their phones they get from samsung, motorolla, nokia, htc, etc. so you have no idea how much they do or do not mark up the retail price of the phone. margins for electronics is not what it was in the 80s. margins when i worked in a major electronics store for a tv dropped from 30% to 10% in a matter of 5 years due to how much the market has changed. so if you think for even a moment that the difference between the MSRP and the price on tmobile’s website is more than a few dollars you know nothing of the electronics industry. if you have one shred of proof to give you a leg to stand on, i will applaud you for it.

if you like i can post quarterly results from the past 2 years to show you where you are wrong in thinking tmobiles business model was working to a point that they would not need to make drastic changes to improve profitability. you are naive sir, and like to boast about knowledge you clearly do not have. if you care to prove me wrong, i challenge to show proof, otherwise all you are doing is trying to stir the masses.

Anonymous

You have chosen to pick what you feel comfortable responding to and disregard the rest, I can never figure out why people do this. I made 0 unlikely assumptions in my post, In fact I gave an example for which you tried to say “instant vs. subsidy”. Whether the rebate is instant or not, the subsidy is $300 not $250. Conversely your assessment of the cost of a phone is wildly inaccurate, buying in bulk is what brings the price to what it is, I know this because I KNOW what the phones cost while YOU my friend are guessing. I am not a rep, CSR or any other entry level position. The cost of a Sensation is upwards of $440. How much profit is turned on an invoice phone? As stated there is a reason prepaid services don’t deal in subsidies. T-Mobile (just like any other wireless carrier that subsidizes) loses money instantly when they sell you a Sensation for anything less than that amount, the money is made up through MRC which is why data-lock policies have been prevalent (T-Mobile was the last to data locking btw. So while I appreciate you trying to pose an argument like an adult it doesn’t change the fact that you my friend are making unlikely assumptions (“most businesses…” this is nothing short of an assumption) and I gave you a fact from which you are trying to nitpick verbiage. Phones are not similar to a pair of pants or a shirt made in Indonesia for 12 cents then sold over here for $100. There are plenty of things that drive up the cost of a phone. Profit margins on invoice phones are usually minuscule, they only become a factor when you are selling millions and cutting out middle men (Apple). One last tidbit, this theory honesty may have held ground 10 years ago, but the cost of a phone subsidy has steadily increased over that time as demand for small portable computers have driven up the cost of handsets. This isn’t a $500 RZR you’re talking about.

HonestyCorner

Your conclusions are based on highly unlikely assumptions and “facts”.

When T-Mobile “subsidizes” a $499.99 phone with a $250 subsidy (their largest current instant subsidy; the small additional rebate requires factoring in likeliness that it will ever be redeemed and paid), they are “subsidizing” off of full retail price. And if you are paying full retail price for anything these days, you are just a poor shopper and wasting money.

Most businesses mark up products at least 100%. Let’s say that $499.99 phone cost T-Mobile $250 in bulk quanities. They then sell it to you “subsidized” for $250. T-Mobile doesn’t lose a penny, and they just roped you into a monthly contract for data (plus an activation fee or silly “upgrade” fee).

T-Mobile is likely turning a hefty profit almost instantly.

Also, by selling you a smart phone with a data plan, they have established another channel of making even more profit from you.

T-Mobile didn’t get to be worth billions of dollars/euros by being stupid. But they did hire a lot of stupid and poorly educated people (some who post routinely on these forums) who are afraid that T-Mobile is constantly giving away everything and creating a world of “entitled” customers. T-Mobile knows what they are doing. They know how to generate a profit. Don’t worry about “protecting” them. When reps do this, they are just interfering with T-Mobile’s goal of good will towards their customers. This good will has been key to their success, much to the ignorance of many posters here (this whole site is derived from that good will). And in the rare event that T-Mobile does find a specific problem with their model, they will fix it, as this story shows.

H8stylist

so what about the phone lineup now states that you cannot do what you would like to do with the WP7, N9, isheep?

also i don’t know one good smartphone in the lineup that’s 150 on subsidy. the closest is the samsung exhibit which is 200.00. do you think that tmobile should give you a 300.00 subsidy and you pay 300.00 in data charges? how does that make sense? is this welfare cellular service?

Anonymous

I was referring to my phone, the cliq xt, you know, the terrible phone that stuck on android 1.5. I got about $170 off its MSRP and at the time, my only option was $30 unlimited web so i didn’t ever activate my web. I don’t feel at all bad about not paying for web and don’t use it.

I wish phone carriers would just not subsidize phones and give us the web as a la carte. Thats really my only wish and my crusade. I didn’t mean to proclaim that tmobile should give me everything free or below profit.

H8stylist

you have that choice, but you like other people choose not to pay the 4-500.00 to have that choice

H8stylist

you have that choice, but you like other people choose not to pay the 4-500.00 to have that choice

Anonymous

I forgot to add the part where we don’t overpay for data because the subsidies aren’t built in. More like other countries business model. But i know thats not viable in the US anymore.

And yes, i’ve bought unsubsidized Nokia phones before because it was simply a better deal than extending a 2-year contract.

H8stylist

value plans or even more plus plans discounted data and the rate plan for that reason. again, your choice, just need to learn more about your options apparantly.

Anonymous

I wouldn’t mind signing up for EM+/value styled plans, but given tmobile’s lack of keeping anything constant the past 2 years, I don’t feel safe jumping into one because a month from now, it may be gone and i’m forced to sign yet another 2-year plan, purchase yet another randomly subsidized phone, and pick an overpriced plan. Not to mention jumping to a pay as you go would require me paying a contract cancellation fee.

I know my options and I have weighed them heavily. I’m not trying to whine, but don’t make it sound like I am uneducated or just complaining. I just like to think there are better ways to operate how wireless carriers work in the U.S.

H8stylist

how many times has tmobile ever, i mean EVER, forced customers to move from one plan to another? if you choose a plan that fits you, even if they discontinue the plan, they allow you to keep it. i have seen customers that had plans from 2001 and we hadn’t offered since 2003. is it possible? of course, but it is not a common practice among any carrier to move you from one plan to another after it’s been discontinued.

even if the merger to ATT goes through, it is not guaranteed that you will have to change your plan. if they do change it and it negatively impacts you as a customer, under the terms and conditions that you signed on your contract, you can cancel with no ETF.

Anonymous

I was referring to the pay-as-you-go and monthly 4G plans that are changed quite often. And those do not get “grandfathered” because there is no contract.

H8stylist

well, i am confused then, since i never brought prepaid, pay as you go plans up. even more plus plans (no longer offered) were no contract plans available to customers that were replaced with value plans now. it is no contract and you receive discounts on the monthly plans and fees. but prepaid does have the ability to change i am sure, but i am not as familiar with prepaid options as i am with potpaid plans.

H8stylist

meant *postpaid plans not potpaid lol

Anonymous

I wouldn’t mind signing up for EM+/value styled plans, but given tmobile’s lack of keeping anything constant the past 2 years, I don’t feel safe jumping into one because a month from now, it may be gone and i’m forced to sign yet another 2-year plan, purchase yet another randomly subsidized phone, and pick an overpriced plan. Not to mention jumping to a pay as you go would require me paying a contract cancellation fee.

I know my options and I have weighed them heavily. I’m not trying to whine, but don’t make it sound like I am uneducated or just complaining. I just like to think there are better ways to operate how wireless carriers work in the U.S.

Anonymous

I was referring to my phone, the cliq xt, you know, the terrible phone that stuck on android 1.5. I got about $170 off its MSRP and at the time, my only option was $30 unlimited web so i didn’t ever activate my web. I don’t feel at all bad about not paying for web and don’t use it.

I wish phone carriers would just not subsidize phones and give us the web as a la carte. Thats really my only wish and my crusade. I didn’t mean to proclaim that tmobile should give me everything free or below profit.

Anonymous

T-Mobile should give people a subsidy in order to obtain their business. If they want people to purchase data service, they should make that service attractive in the marketplace instead of forcing it on people who are taking advantage of the incentives the carrier offers in order to induce them to extend their contracts.

Everything at T-Mobile started to go downhill when the data service policy was implemented. That was the beginning of the end.

Anonymous

T-Mobile should give people a subsidy in order to obtain their business. If they want people to purchase data service, they should make that service attractive in the marketplace instead of forcing it on people who are taking advantage of the incentives the carrier offers in order to induce them to extend their contracts.

Everything at T-Mobile started to go downhill when the data service policy was implemented. That was the beginning of the end.

H8stylist

tmobile started the data policy after all other carriers had enacted theirs. those other companies were far more profitable than tmobile was, and tmobile has dwindled over the past few years if you have even paid attention to the quarterly statements. tmobiles data service is also more attractive than most any other company in the industry in terms of affordability, in terms of speed, and in terms of availability.

people who have not become aquainted with other cellular carriers policies, fees, customer service, are in for a shock if and when they leave tmobile. in most i hope that some do, you can’t appreciate what you have until you see it from the other side of the fence.

Anonymous

T-Mobile started going downhill by matching other carriers and trying to remain competitive? T-Mobile has to recover those hits from subsidies. They can’t be giving away heavily discounted smartphones with the hopes that people will sign up. People who have no intentions of ever buying data would get smartphones for themselves and their kids, and T-Mobile would be losing millions on them, especially since you can get smartphones for free.

And make their service attractive? What the hell else can they do outside of coverage (which most people who have T-Mobile most likely have good coverage)? They got data plans starting at $10 an, for the time being, the largest 4G network out.

T-Mobile has to enforce data plans to become profitable with the huge hits in smartphone subsidies. At least T-Mobile gives you the option to not even get a data plan if you acquire a phone with using their subsidy (e.g. full retail price, eBay, from a friend, etc.). None of the other Big 4 give you that option, making data plans required on all smartphones, whether purchased under contract or contract free.

- VDubb

Anonymous

Well, perhaps than they should stop offering smart phones for free.

Or a better idea, maybe they should try to succeed in the marketplace through innovation and excellent service instead of through policy decisions that are consumer-unfriendly and leave their customers with a sour taste in their mouth.

How can they make their service more attractive? Lol, well, I think you identified one area where there could be some improvement. Perhaps more people would want a data plan if those data plans offered them download speeds that even approached the “theoretical” speeds that they advertise?

T-Mobile does not have to enforce data plans to become profitable. T-Mobile is already profitable, and was profitable before the data service policy ever went into effect. They would continue to be profitable if that policy was done away with. I posted a link to T-Mobile’s latest financial statement in one my posts above. I believe that same page had a number of historical statements as well, so if you’re curious as to what their actual financial position is, go take a look.

The business of providing wireless telecommunication is an obscenely profitable one, made even more profitable through the fact that the carriers can purchase a public good (spectrum) at a fraction of its actual value. These companies make so much money, they might as well have their own printing press at the Federal Reserve. If you believe the internal corporate propaganda that is contrary to this, well, I’ve got a bridge in Brooklyn I’m looking to unload. It’s a steal, I promise!

Anonymous

Well, perhaps than they should stop offering smart phones for free.

Or a better idea, maybe they should try to succeed in the marketplace through innovation and excellent service instead of through policy decisions that are consumer-unfriendly and leave their customers with a sour taste in their mouth.

How can they make their service more attractive? Lol, well, I think you identified one area where there could be some improvement. Perhaps more people would want a data plan if those data plans offered them download speeds that even approached the “theoretical” speeds that they advertise?

T-Mobile does not have to enforce data plans to become profitable. T-Mobile is already profitable, and was profitable before the data service policy ever went into effect. They would continue to be profitable if that policy was done away with. I posted a link to T-Mobile’s latest financial statement in one my posts above. I believe that same page had a number of historical statements as well, so if you’re curious as to what their actual financial position is, go take a look.

The business of providing wireless telecommunication is an obscenely profitable one, made even more profitable through the fact that the carriers can purchase a public good (spectrum) at a fraction of its actual value. These companies make so much money, they might as well have their own printing press at the Federal Reserve. If you believe the internal corporate propaganda that is contrary to this, well, I’ve got a bridge in Brooklyn I’m looking to unload. It’s a steal, I promise!

Anonymous

Well, perhaps than they should stop offering smart phones for free.

Or a better idea, maybe they should try to succeed in the marketplace through innovation and excellent service instead of through policy decisions that are consumer-unfriendly and leave their customers with a sour taste in their mouth.

How can they make their service more attractive? Lol, well, I think you identified one area where there could be some improvement. Perhaps more people would want a data plan if those data plans offered them download speeds that even approached the “theoretical” speeds that they advertise?

T-Mobile does not have to enforce data plans to become profitable. T-Mobile is already profitable, and was profitable before the data service policy ever went into effect. They would continue to be profitable if that policy was done away with. I posted a link to T-Mobile’s latest financial statement in one my posts above. I believe that same page had a number of historical statements as well, so if you’re curious as to what their actual financial position is, go take a look.

The business of providing wireless telecommunication is an obscenely profitable one, made even more profitable through the fact that the carriers can purchase a public good (spectrum) at a fraction of its actual value. These companies make so much money, they might as well have their own printing press at the Federal Reserve. If you believe the internal corporate propaganda that is contrary to this, well, I’ve got a bridge in Brooklyn I’m looking to unload. It’s a steal, I promise!

Anonymous

T-Mobile started going downhill by matching other carriers and trying to remain competitive? T-Mobile has to recover those hits from subsidies. They can’t be giving away heavily discounted smartphones with the hopes that people will sign up. People who have no intentions of ever buying data would get smartphones for themselves and their kids, and T-Mobile would be losing millions on them, especially since you can get smartphones for free.

And make their service attractive? What the hell else can they do outside of coverage (which most people who have T-Mobile most likely have good coverage)? They got data plans starting at $10 an, for the time being, the largest 4G network out.

T-Mobile has to enforce data plans to become profitable with the huge hits in smartphone subsidies. At least T-Mobile gives you the option to not even get a data plan if you acquire a phone with using their subsidy (e.g. full retail price, eBay, from a friend, etc.). None of the other Big 4 give you that option, making data plans required on all smartphones, whether purchased under contract or contract free.

- VDubb

Anonymous

T-Mobile should give people a subsidy in order to obtain their business. If they want people to purchase data service, they should make that service attractive in the marketplace instead of forcing it on people who are taking advantage of the incentives the carrier offers in order to induce them to extend their contracts.

Everything at T-Mobile started to go downhill when the data service policy was implemented. That was the beginning of the end.

Anonymous

This isn’t 2008. Smartphone subsidies are higher than $150, going up to $450 for a device. If you don’t want the data plan, buy the phone at the full price and you can use it however you want with T-Mobile, at least they give you that option. You can’t expect a company to give phones away at discounted costs have no viable means to make profit off of a customer within a respectable time frame, especially if they are already giving away most of their services at a discounted cost.

Anonymous

Okay i get the whole, subsidies are for the data plans. But forcing me to pay over $240 to $720 on data for a $150 dollar subsidy is a bit ridiculous.

My case: My “Smartphone” is crap and i’m not going to pay that kind of money if i can’t even do the simplest things on it regardless of whether i have 3G data or not. Its simply not worth the money. I’m paying $58 dollars a month for calling and texting, which is all i need the phone for.

When i get a phone that is capable and can take advantage of 3G data well enough, (WP7 mango, Nokia N9, iPhone), then i’ll add my $10 data plan to make them happy. But by then it will be at&t so it won’t matter anyway.

Anonymous

This is simply getting rid of the loophole that allows a customer to purchase a subsidized handset, then buy a device full invoice through the system to remove the data feature. Now customers will have to fulfill the data requirement. The new plans don’t require data anyway, so this will not matter to any new customer and only matters if you are trying to weasel your way out of paying for data. It does beg the question of why would anyone buy a say, Sensation 4G and try to use it without data unless they are trying to sell it or give it away.

You will still obviously be allowed to lower your data plan.

This however is another example of shock journalism, scaring the uninformed masses. Spell check anyone?

Anonymous

Maybe it’s occurred to them that they don’t need data, because they have wifi at home, work, school etc.

Or maybe they are just selling it or giving it away. What business is it of yours what somebody does with their own possessions?

H8stylist

defensive much?

Anonymous

No, I’m simply restating a fact that should be blindingly obvious to you, if you wern’t viewing the world through the lens of internally directed corporate propaganda.

T-Mobile (and all the other carriers) have no business telling people how they need to use their equipment. It’s a pity American consumers are such sheep that they go along with such things.

The profound arrogance of someone who would speculate on the reasons why someone might want to buy a particular gadget without some additional feature that comes at a monthly cost (and in so doing, imply that there is something wrong or improper about obtaining that gadget for the purpose of giving a gift to another person or selling it if the opportunity exists to turn a profit through the resale to another party) is astounding.

With regards to you, it’s clear from your responses to me that you’re a sad little cubicle monkey who has chosen to adopt a certain contemptuous attitude towards the people who you purport to serve because it gives you some sense of self-worth to think about how much better and smarter you are than all those “unreasonable” customers who inconveniently demand your time and attention.

You’re probably one of those people who thinks the job would be a lot better if the customers just went away.

Well, news flash. They are going away. And so is your job. Think T-Mobile is going to take care of you after the merger? Best of luck with that.

Have another gulp of Kool-Aid.

Cheers!

H8stylist

in the end you want to have your cake and eat it too.

you like to act arrogant when portraying info that is obviously naive. you want to be able to use your device in the way that you want. you want tmobile to take 300.00 off of a phone that you want, but you don’t want them to say that you have an obligation to use it the way it was intended. the fact that they require you to add a feature when getting 300.00 off of a device is not arrogance, it’s arrogance that you want that discount without compromise.

you know that you have the option of buying it full price and using it the way that you desire, yet you choose to discard it as an option and flame the company, and anyone else that tries to show you reason.

you are also naive in thinking i work for tmobile, you make too many assumptions, and most of them are wrong. “Well, news flash” go somewhere else and they will do the same thing or worse, it has less to do with the companies than it has to do with customers that are used to getting their phones much cheaper than people in other countries do but still want the same options that were available over 2 years ago.

if i need to stop drinking corporate kool aid, you need to put down the pipe….

Anonymous

Well no, I’m not making an assumption about you working for T-Mobile. I’m making an educated assessment of that fact, based on your previous posts, which are easily available for review by clicking on your user name. You refer many times to taking calls from customers, and you speak the corporate language, which I happen to recognize because I used to be a corporate drone at T-Mobile as well. (And no, I’m not simply a disgruntled former employee, I left on good terms. The reason I left was because I realized where things were headed and I decided that there were more productive ways I could spend my time then jockeying a cubicle for an employer who clearly cared very little for their employees.)

In other words you are either A) misrepresenting yourself, or B) delusional or C) another sadly deluded member of the working class who thinks that if they are a good little boy or girl that someday they might get to move into middle management. Which of those is true is I suppose is a question that only you can answer.

My position is clear, and I suspect that my position is one that every customer of T-Mobile is sympathetic towards. Nobody likes having their economic choices dictated to them.

And incidentally, my argument is a purely academic one. I buy my phones on Craigslist or EBay. I have data service because I get a better deal than most on it, and I find it convenient. I would however, be outraged to have the choice to maintain data service forced upon me, and thus my argument.

I worked for T-Mobile for many years before the data service policy was implemented, and for some time after it was implemented. I can tell you without reservation that it was the implementation of that policy that started T-Mobile on the course they are now pursuing. That policy turned employees from consultants who assisted customers with their needs into corporate enforcers whose concerns increasingly were dominated by policy enforcement and “punishing bad customers.”

In any case, I’m currently working on a project that requires my attention, and this flame war is taking up way too much of my time, so I’ll let you respond and get the last word in. I’m sure it will be satisfying.
Cheers!

H8stylist

all i can say if you choose to end it this way is, nice deflection in your response, you didn’t answer any of my arguments.

H8stylist

all i can say if you choose to end it this way is, nice deflection in your response, you didn’t answer any of my arguments.

ItsMichaelNotMike

Well-written and well thought out Rommy. And yes, concentrate on that project. Unless one writes for a living, these “flame wars” (as you call them) can consume way too much of one’s time.

ItsMichaelNotMike

Well-written and well thought out Rommy. And yes, concentrate on that project. Unless one writes for a living, these “flame wars” (as you call them) can consume way too much of one’s time.

Anonymous

Lol, I replied, and my comment got censored. I wonder why that happens?

Anyway, I was just going to say thanks :)

Anonymous

This is no academic argument, you are passing off your opinions and feelings as the sentiment of the masses and have clearly not answered any of the points he brought up. If you buy your handsets from Craigslist as you keep on pointing out, no data requirement is forced upon you. That is pure choice and freedom, so what are you even arguing about? If you buy a phone and sign a contract agreeing to pay for data over two years so that you can take a subsidized handset, then what exactly is the problem? Is T-Mobile forcing you to take the phone? T-Mobile reps carry Glock 45′s to make sure that you sign on the dotted line and take that data package? You dont like the proposition? Then don’t sign the contract. Buy a phone from ebay, craigsist, a friend or a stranger and add whichever data plan you want at your own leisure or dont add it at all. This isnt a dictatorship, you act as if the government is forcing you to own an expensive handset and pay for data. Your arguments while at least spelled correctly are still idiotic and elude the point. There is a choice, just not a choice to get what you want all the time. If you dont like it, start your own wireless company where they dont subsidize handsets, wait there are plenty of those already. Looks like you do have a choice.

You have way too much free time, and should ease up on the shrooms.

H8stylist

just to add, a phone that everyone wants is the samsung galaxy s2. everyone also has the ability to get it right now unlocked for 700+. i however also believe when it hits the shores of the US that not only will it show up for a subsidized price of about 250-300.00, but i also believe it will be yet another outcry for you saying OMG how can they require me to get data……

buy phones overseas open your eyes to the true cost of handsets, and learn that subsidized handsets are what mass consumers want. if you are not part of the mass (so that you can have your self proclaimed independence), buy it full cost to stay away from the herd. i myself never liked to be part of the herd anyway, they smell too much….

jarjon76

Tell me, were you wearing your tin foil hat as you were typing this long winded rant?

Anonymous

Welcome to the exciting world of unemployment! It’s fast approaching, I hope you’re prepared.

In my professional life, I work for a state agency that administers unemployment insurance. See you soon!

Anonymous

Welcome to the exciting world of unemployment! It’s fast approaching, I hope you’re prepared.

In my professional life, I work for a state agency that administers unemployment insurance. See you soon!

Anonymous

Welcome to the exciting world of unemployment! It’s fast approaching, I hope you’re prepared.

In my professional life, I work for a state agency that administers unemployment insurance. See you soon!

Anonymous

Ok Mr. (Internet) Tough Guy, the business of a company is the deal that YOU signed up for. If I agree to buy a car from you and pay you $400 a month for a year because the car costs $7000 and I’ve only put down $2200. Should I pay be able to not pay you because I’m not really going to drive that much? Or maybe if I give it to my friend then I should cry foul and say you’re robbing me because I gave it away?
This policy is not unique to T-Mobile, it was the loophole that was. Carriers lose money on subsidized handsets. Nobody is forcing you to buy handsets from Retail Stores or CSRs or any other official avenue. You choose. The informed customer either buys from one of these channels because the agreement to pay for data makes sense to them or they buy it from eBay or some other unofficial source because they don’t agree. Or just buy It unsubsidized. That’s it. You act as if you don’t have options. Don’t want to pay data? Then dont sign a contract agreeing to pay data for 2 years just to get a phone for cheap. It is stupid and irresponsible. I am a customer also, I pay for data because I use it. I am also a student with wifi at school, work and in my house. However since I drive I use GPS on my phone which requires data, I enjoy being able to use my phone’s Internet in my vacation house so I don’t have to pay a monthly bill at a house I stay in 2x a month. It makes sense for a lot of people. Wifi doesn’t follow you everywhere, so not everyone cares about that. If I’m on the beach and want to check Yankee/Giants scores, or weather or maybe even Yelp a restaurant around me I need data. That’s what these phones are for anyway, portability. If I wanted to use it while I was in a wifi area I might as well just own an iPod and a flip phone. Maybe you should try that instead of whining foolishly about a contract you welcomed to get a phone for cheap.

21stNow

I would change your car example to you pay the $2200 down and $400 a month with no problem. However, the seller requires that you buy gas from him when you already have a membership at a gas club that will supply you all the gas that you need. You should have a choice on where to get that gas from, and it should not be a condition of buying the car.

21stNow

I would change your car example to you pay the $2200 down and $400 a month with no problem. However, the seller requires that you buy gas from him when you already have a membership at a gas club that will supply you all the gas that you need. You should have a choice on where to get that gas from, and it should not be a condition of buying the car.

Anonymous

Doesn’t quite apply as in reality data is meant to offset the loss of subsidy while in your example the gas would be purely attempting to turn a profit. (not to say that at a certain point they don’t profit off of this arrangement). Appreciate the recommendation though.

Anonymous

The “loss of subsidy” is offset by the cost of the monthly service. Or are you under the impression that data service is the only means by which T-Mobile can turn a profit?

Anonymous

There is such a thing as OPEX buddy, that’s operating expense to you. Running a wireless company isn’t cheap, please stop trying to be an expert on something you know nothing about.

There is such a thing as OPEX buddy, that’s operating expense to you. Running a wireless company isn’t cheap, please stop trying to be an expert on something you know nothing about.

21stNow

The $20 difference in the price of the Value and Classic plans offset the “loss” of the subsidy.

21stNow

The data plan requirement is purely an attempt to turn a profit.

Anonymous

Precisely why there is no subsidy or data requirements on Value. If there was, T-Mobile would lose money. No carrier charges $60 a month for unlimited everything and subsidized handsets. I really don’t understand your argument.

Anonymous

Precisely why there is no subsidy or data requirements on Value. If there was, T-Mobile would lose money. No carrier charges $60 a month for unlimited everything and subsidized handsets. I really don’t understand your argument.

jarjon76

rommy0515 wants to have his cake and eat it too. He wants a Sensation for $200, but he also doesn’t want to be “forced” to pay for data. He likes to say it’s his business what he does with his phone, but I would counter that it’s T-Mobile’s, and the honest T-Mobile customers’, business that he’s trying to rip them off. rommy0515 represents what’s wrong with the modern consumer–he thinks he’s entitled to whatever he wants because, by golly, he’s the customer. Playing the victim card is his attempt to validate his irrational thought process.

Anonymous

It is my business what I do with my phone. It’s my phone after all, I paid for it. Got a heck of deal on it actually, Craigslist is a wonderful thing, especially when you live in a town with a T-Mobile call center. There’s always some employee looking to unload a phone at a good price.

I don’t think for a minute that I’m entitled to whatever I want. I am however entitled to make my own economic decisions, and if T-Mobile, or any other carrier wants my business, they need to offer me some sort of incentive to do business with them.
Or, I’ll take my money elsewhere. Which is exactly what I’m doing when the merger closes.

You clearly feel like the customers are the enemy. You’re not the only one at T-Mobile who feels that way, and that, more than any other reason, is why T-Mobile’s business is deteriorating. (Although, as I stated in another post, it is still a very profitable business, a fact that is easily ascertained by looking at their financial statements.)

People want to feel like a business they are patronizing values that business, otherwise they move on to someone who will. The fact that T-Mobile is hemorrhaging customers is indicative of the fact that customers feel like their business is no longer valued and the fact that they are getting a better deal on wireless than might be available with the other major carriers is no longer sufficient reason for them to stick around.

Employees like you are the reason T-Mobile will no longer be in business next year, and why you, and your fellow cubicle mates will be searching the want ads during the worst economy in living memory.

Good luck with that.

H8stylist

you are apparantly reading some different information if you think T-mobiles quarterly results are showing that they are still a very profitable company. did they make a profit? of course they did 135million is a lot of money. however, combined with the fact that it is down by 50% over last years result, that is a big slide. also rate plane revenues are not what tmobile depends on for profitability, it is the extra features. no i do not have evidence to back up tmobile’s claims, just as you have no claims that they make a large profit off you. what i did find was US Cellulars rate plan margins were averaging at 3%. i seriously doubt in a market as competitive as wireless plans are, as cheap as tmobile’s are, that you are correct that tmobile can remain competitive and profitable off of rate plan revenue alone.

you seem to think customer service is the biggest reason why. yes, tmobile has changed a lot of it’s policies from years past to become more profitable. tmobile no longer credits customers accounts because of something the customer did (minute overages, premium service downloads, 411 calls, pay per use internet charges) and most customers are reasonable. most customers take responsibility for charges that they themselves caused. others (not unlike yourself) play the victim role and say that tmobiles customer service is going downhill. credits and other free offers from a company does not equal customer service. understanding a customers situation, doing whatever you can to improve it, and treating them with the utmost respect is customer service. last jdpowers sprint and att were still well behind tmobile, not to mention only 4 points behind verizon.

every post in here that rebuts your arguments you come back with either “you are the reason tmobile is failing” or “it would just be better if all of us customers would just shut up wouldn’t it”. instead of reason and logic you are responding with the irrational and defensive remarks.

jarjon76

No, I feel that scam artists like you are the problem. I worked in retail for 15 years and most of the customers I dealt with were pleasant and a joy to interact with. You’re one of the bad apples, thus I’m calling you out.

Psst, I don’t work for T-Mobile. If I did, I certainly wouldn’t do the things you admitted to doing while you were there.

Anonymous

At which point am I running a scam? Is it the part where I pay my bill on time every month? Because, I really can’t think of an interaction I have with T-Mobile that goes beyond that. I’ll freely admit that I do call and demand a credit when I have a service outage, is that a scam? Do I just need to eat my vegetables?

I’ve paid my T-Mobile bill faithfully since long before it was T-Mobile. At the time it comes time for me to decide whether I intend to continue with them, I don’t really see it as being a scam artists to expect that T-Mobile might want to provide me some sort of carrot in order to influence that decision.

But, as I’ve come to recently understand, T-Mobile doesn’t really value my business very much, and that’s okay. There are other companies that will.

derek 21

yeah every major company, car dealership, or huge chain makes you feel valued for a day until you ask for something that’s just not an option , you go somewhere else same thing happens, it’s a stupid revolving door, your option is prepaid everyone offers it ,

Anonymous

Where there is a will, there is a way. If a company wants my money that badly, then they will find a way to accommodate my needs. If they can’t or won’t do that, then I’ll take my money elsewhere. That’s how the free market works.

Anonymous

It is my business what I do with my phone. It’s my phone after all, I paid for it. Got a heck of deal on it actually, Craigslist is a wonderful thing, especially when you live in a town with a T-Mobile call center. There’s always some employee looking to unload a phone at a good price.

I don’t think for a minute that I’m entitled to whatever I want. I am however entitled to make my own economic decisions, and if T-Mobile, or any other carrier wants my business, they need to offer me some sort of incentive to do business with them.
Or, I’ll take my money elsewhere. Which is exactly what I’m doing when the merger closes.

You clearly feel like the customers are the enemy. You’re not the only one at T-Mobile who feels that way, and that, more than any other reason, is why T-Mobile’s business is deteriorating. (Although, as I stated in another post, it is still a very profitable business, a fact that is easily ascertained by looking at their financial statements.)

People want to feel like a business they are patronizing values that business, otherwise they move on to someone who will. The fact that T-Mobile is hemorrhaging customers is indicative of the fact that customers feel like their business is no longer valued and the fact that they are getting a better deal on wireless than might be available with the other major carriers is no longer sufficient reason for them to stick around.

Employees like you are the reason T-Mobile will no longer be in business next year, and why you, and your fellow cubicle mates will be searching the want ads during the worst economy in living memory.

Good luck with that.

Anonymous

You’re comparing apples and oranges. A phone is not an item you finance (unless of course you purchase it with a credit card, and than the financing terms are between you and your bank) and I’m not suggesting that someone should purchase equipment on an installment basis and than walk away from those payments. (And I don’t believe anybody else is suggesting that either.) In that case, T-Mobile would certainly be justified in pursuing collection action against the person who owed them money.

What I am saying is that customers should be given the choice of what sort of services they utilize on the equipment that they own. If T-Mobile wants people to purchase data service, they should try to make that case by offering an innovative product at an attractive price.

That’s not the case here.

Anonymous

Again back with your opinions, the expression by the way is apples to oranges, and that this is not. They are both financial contracts. YOU AGREE to pay for Internet to get the latest greatest device at a cheap price. THEY AGREE to provide service and subsidize that handset. Same as any other arrangement. You DO have a choice. As I have said countless times. You’re just complaining and it’s annoying. Don’t like tmo phones buy any GSM phone, unlock it and use it on tmo. Don’t want pay for data? Don’t sign a contract saying you will just to get a phone for cheap. What is so hard to understand about that?

joe

all of you are ridiculous….every cell phone carrier in the US has the same policy for contractable data features. Verizon, Sprint, AT&T…you should just be happy that you only pay $20 a month for your data and dont get charged extra…like at verizon or AT&T

Anonymous

Umm… Actually, phones are an item you finance; at least with T-Mobile. I had a customer the other day who wanted to EIP a 150 dollar phone over 20 months… Really? REALLY?

derek 21

i hate those apple to oranges statements, they are redundant, and pointless, customer’s are given the choice full price or lower priced, data for two years it’s that simple you lost your phone your fault, you signed the contract, simple as that

Anonymous

Well that’s a winning business strategy, tell the customer they are at fault and if they don’t like it, they can shove off. If a business wants to survive, they need repeat business. T-Mobile never seemed to grasp that fact, and well, we can all see the result of that sort of thinking.

Anonymous

Well that’s a winning business strategy, tell the customer they are at fault and if they don’t like it, they can shove off. If a business wants to survive, they need repeat business. T-Mobile never seemed to grasp that fact, and well, we can all see the result of that sort of thinking.

Anonymous

Well that’s a winning business strategy, tell the customer they are at fault and if they don’t like it, they can shove off. If a business wants to survive, they need repeat business. T-Mobile never seemed to grasp that fact, and well, we can all see the result of that sort of thinking.

derek 21

i hate those apple to oranges statements, they are redundant, and pointless, customer’s are given the choice full price or lower priced, data for two years it’s that simple you lost your phone your fault, you signed the contract, simple as that

Anonymous

Ok Mr. (Internet) Tough Guy, the business of a company is the deal that YOU signed up for. If I agree to buy a car from you and pay you $400 a month for a year because the car costs $7000 and I’ve only put down $2200. Should I pay be able to not pay you because I’m not really going to drive that much? Or maybe if I give it to my friend then I should cry foul and say you’re robbing me because I gave it away?
This policy is not unique to T-Mobile, it was the loophole that was. Carriers lose money on subsidized handsets. Nobody is forcing you to buy handsets from Retail Stores or CSRs or any other official avenue. You choose. The informed customer either buys from one of these channels because the agreement to pay for data makes sense to them or they buy it from eBay or some other unofficial source because they don’t agree. Or just buy It unsubsidized. That’s it. You act as if you don’t have options. Don’t want to pay data? Then dont sign a contract agreeing to pay data for 2 years just to get a phone for cheap. It is stupid and irresponsible. I am a customer also, I pay for data because I use it. I am also a student with wifi at school, work and in my house. However since I drive I use GPS on my phone which requires data, I enjoy being able to use my phone’s Internet in my vacation house so I don’t have to pay a monthly bill at a house I stay in 2x a month. It makes sense for a lot of people. Wifi doesn’t follow you everywhere, so not everyone cares about that. If I’m on the beach and want to check Yankee/Giants scores, or weather or maybe even Yelp a restaurant around me I need data. That’s what these phones are for anyway, portability. If I wanted to use it while I was in a wifi area I might as well just own an iPod and a flip phone. Maybe you should try that instead of whining foolishly about a contract you welcomed to get a phone for cheap.

rbash

What about if I bought a used smartphone on my own and used it in my current plan (no data), will the system detect that and force me to add data plan.

I have WiFi both at home and in Office where I spend almost all of my time.

Thanks

Anonymous

No, plenty of you are interpreting this wrong, which I dont blame you for because it was reported as irresponsibly as possible. T-Mobile is not hunting down Smartphone users to add data, just closing a loophole that allowed people who bought phones AT A DISCOUNT to buy a cheap phone full price and remove the data.

If you buy a phone FULL PRICE from T-Mobile or buy a phone from a friend, ebay or whatever medium you will NOT be forced to add data.

This is only for customers who are buying subsidized handsets.

dj_mik

….and to further support your point, you can let your contract expire and then renew your plan sans data while still using a smart phone. Even though the claims that a smartphone won’t work without the internet are to a large extent false, we must consider that they are *smart*phones and were designed to use the internet to deliver the full value to the user. Without it, all you have is a PDA circa 1995 and became an utter cump having paid full price for a device of which you only use a limited amoiunt of features on.

Subliminal

thank goodness and good riddance to the leachers that are El Cheopo customers who get 500$ smartphones and then buy a cheap phone outright to get rid of the data obligation, I’m all for this its because of those types of customers that Tmo has had to resort to these things my only gripe is that they didn’t do this sooner as I know a few customers who ended up doing this with several lines on their accounts.

Subliminal

thank goodness and good riddance to the leachers that are El Cheopo customers who get 500$ smartphones and then buy a cheap phone outright to get rid of the data obligation, I’m all for this its because of those types of customers that Tmo has had to resort to these things my only gripe is that they didn’t do this sooner as I know a few customers who ended up doing this with several lines on their accounts.

Anonymous

It’s because of employees like you that Tmo is getting sucked into the Death Star’s garbage chute.

You think somebody is a cheapskate because they don’t feel like paying some godawful amount every month for data?

And don’t say, “well than they shouldn’t get smartphones.” It’s none of your damn business what kind of phone somebody decides to get. When you guys are sitting around in the team meetings drinking the corporate Kool-Aid, and they tell you something like, “T-Mobile doesn’t make money until the eighteenth month of the contract” or some such nonsense, let me clue you in to something.

Management is lying to you.

But what would I know, right? Oh yeah, I used drink that same Kool-Aid. :)

Cheers!

H8stylist

while i admit, the language of subliminal was worded harshly. the basic point is not far from the truth. some people (not the majority) want smartphones for the style and status more than what the phone was designed for. when you purchase the phone for these reasons you are purchasing it for the wrong reasons. these phones are not only complex, but are designed for the internet, and using it as a basic phone means that more than likely you are not only causing tmobile to lose profitibility in loss of data, but loss of profitability in increased calls to customer care for issues the customer has in operating the phone, issues with billing (customer adds pay per use web accidentally).

if you want the ability to use any phone you like, it is there, you just want the ability to use any phone you like and have it subsidized too (not happening with tmobile, or any other carrier so get used to it and stop trying to fight reality)

LILMICKY3

LIKE THE MARKET OF 917 AND 646 AREA CODES…

LILMICKY3

LIKE THE MARKET OF 917 AND 646 AREA CODES…

Anonymous

I’m sure all of T-Mobile’s customers in New York City appreciate your enthusiasm for their continued business.

Customer service would be so much more fun if the customers quit calling for service, right?

Anonymous

I’m sure all of T-Mobile’s customers in New York City appreciate your enthusiasm for their continued business.

Customer service would be so much more fun if the customers quit calling for service, right?

Anonymous

I’m sure all of T-Mobile’s customers in New York City appreciate your enthusiasm for their continued business.

Customer service would be so much more fun if the customers quit calling for service, right?

TakeThePeoplesMoolah

Im sorry but that is just retarded. Let the idiots buy phones they wont use, i dont understand why its effecting you at all. Yes it effects T-Mobile but they can tell who does this, if they can do that then take action on them individually.

Do not force others to have to pay for things they wont use, i have no use for data on my Galaxy S2 yet im paying for something i literally dont even use.. how you can justify T-Mobile doing this id love to hear. simply because others abused it is not enough to make it a requirement.

Personally i dont see how thats abusing it, they are paying for the plans. They just arent using the data… OMG.. they still pay the monthly fees.. just arent using it.. im so sure T-Mobile was hurting hard from that.. give me a break.

Like always its the every day Joe who suffers, not the people who commit the crimes. Fat cat business, thats how it always works. Quire frankly tired of paying companies for something i had no part in or even have a need to use.

TakeThePeoplesMoolah

freaking typo “Quite”

TakeThePeoplesMoolah

double posted, sorry.

Omizuke

This can be in part stupid for there are others and worst loophole, like for example, when I bought my G2 I pay $50 I could have cancel my contract in a couple of months and keep the phone, and getting my G2 for only $250 and I could have use that phone with some other line, keeping my super phone on a $30 bucks plan. XD
Anyway if this won’t affect you buying the phone at full price then I don’t mind, because there are people (friends of mine) that get smart phones to use as a PDA because its smaller than a tablet, you can store your stuff and and have the similar functions to deceive like the iPod Touch and the sort and work as a camera, but also double as a phone so they don’t have to carry much stuff all in one place. And also don’t want to pay for the data plan because in would be useless, where I live the highest speed I’ve got on my G2 is around 100kbps and that’s in my house when I’m lucky, on he’s house I get about 30-40kbps and in the two nearest mall, downtown and at my collage it wont even connect most of the time, so I have to be on Wi-Fi at all time, I pay for a data plan which I use less than 50MB (extremely annoying) but I can live with that, and no, I’m not rich, but I knew that and accepted it rather than paying the phone full price in one hit, but others (like my friend) would refuse to pay for a data plan that can’t and won’t use.

H8stylist

tried to read, too painful, waiting on translation…

ASIAN_INSPIRED03

finally..theres been a lot of FRAUD HAPPENING regarding this DATA contract.. ive always complained that why is there a loophole to cancell the DATA SERVICE WHILE ALL CUSTOMERS KNEW FOR A FACT IF THE PURCHASED A DATA PHONE THEY NEED TO keep the DATA service for the length of their contract… THANK YOU TMOBILE FOR MAKING THIS HAPPENED.. MAKES MY JOB LESS MORE STRESSFUL

ASIAN_INSPIRED03

finally..theres been a lot of FRAUD HAPPENING regarding this DATA contract.. ive always complained that why is there a loophole to cancell the DATA SERVICE WHILE ALL CUSTOMERS KNEW FOR A FACT IF THE PURCHASED A DATA PHONE THEY NEED TO keep the DATA service for the length of their contract… THANK YOU TMOBILE FOR MAKING THIS HAPPENED.. MAKES MY JOB LESS MORE STRESSFUL

Meagan

Don’t stress over something that really won’t matter to anyone after the TmobileUSA merger occurs. Are you going to say, “I really had TmobileUSA’s back, before I got that TmobileUSA pink slip”?

TmobileUSA would have changed it a long time ago, if it really mattered to them.

Anonymous

It’s not about “having T’Mobile’s back”, I could care less about having some company’s back. It’s more about getting the proper information out, so that people who are less informed can know the facts instead of reading some irresponsibly posted half story and then have a bunch of disgruntled former associates (he can deny it if he would like) confusing people into believing that they are being cheated or wronged in some way.

Anonymous

I’d say you were completely unbelievable, but I’ve been sitting here going down memory lane and I remembered that I was just like you once.

I thought all the customers were idiots and scam artists, and that anybody who spoke ill of T-Mobile was misinformed and ignorant.

Incidentally, the reason I quit is because I was turning into a person I didn’t like very much. I was entertaining myself at work by being a roadblock and making things as difficult for the customers as I could, simply by inflexibly enforcing policy decisions, that I didn’t even really personally agree with. I’d go out to the smoke pit and make fun of the people who called in with huge bills and complain about the people who wanted credits for this and that.

You ever hear of Hannah Arendt, and a concept called “The Banality of Evil?’ Look it up if you haven’t. It’s good food for thought.

Those are real people on the other end of the telephone. They’re calling you with real problems. They aren’t trying to scam you, or run some sort of scheme, or figure out ways to screw you and your employer. They’re just trying to get by, in an economy that’s pretty ugly. (I work for a state employment agency now, and I’ve come to understand how bad things really are for people out there.) Sure, maybe somebody made a silly decision and bought a phone they couldn’t really afford. Maybe they were irresponsible with some bills. Maybe they’re just not that smart. Or maybe, they’re just in a tight spot, and they need to put food on the table, or keep the heat on in the winter, or put gas in the car. Being able to take that data plan off might be the difference between the power getting shut off or not. Who knows?

You know, I had a lady call me once who told me she was living under a bridge with her kids. She wanted me to help her keep her phone on for a few days while she looked for emergency housing.

I didn’t help her. I told her that failing her payment arrangement would mean that her phone would be suspended. She begged and pleaded with me, and I ended the call.

Not one of my prouder moments in life.

If T-Mobile, and the other major carriers really cared about their customers, they would adopt more consumer friendly policies, particularly given the current state of affairs. I’m not saying give away the store, I’m saying have a heart.

But its all about the bottom line, isn’t it?

Well, here’s the bottom line for you. T-Mobile is being devoured by AT&T. AT&T will promptly lay most of workforce off. Whatever they’ve told you in the call center about your future prospects, if it was anything other than, “get your resumes together and learn how to apply for unemployment,” management should be ashamed of themselves. They know what’s coming.

I wish you no ill will, I hope things work out for you.

Anonymous

You seem intelligent enough by your ability to string your words together properly that I can’t figure out why you are still on this. You are using your personal experience and your view of this matter and trying to impose upon others the same beliefs that you have based upon feelings you have. While most people read, process and then respond, you are skimming, getting angry and formulating roundabout responses to points that can not be argued. Fact is you arent even reading things properly. I DON’T work in a call center or a retail location, I’ve said that multiple times. I live in NY, there are no call centers in NY. As far as your example goes, you chose to act that way with a customer, had I been in your shoes I would have figured out if there was something I could do to help the person. I nor @345780ae2cff0a6dd84949a171023e31:disqus said anything about ALL customers being scam artists or not deserving of humane treatment. Only a fool would argue in extremes. What I am saying is as much as you want the corporation to have a heart, corporations are not people (Just ask AT&T with their failed case in Supreme Court). The function of a corporation is to maximize revenue and profit. The people that work there that are building/living guiding principles have to make judgement calls and have a heart. I have always genuinely enjoyed interacting with customers but that is neither here nor there, at the end of the day there is a choice, and you have tried to turn a policy tightening up into a Social uprising. I’m sure the people taking advantage of the system arent all people living under a bridge with children. So is it all about the bottom line to a company? Of course it is. There are ways to be profitable and still be a cut above the rest in customer service. I would say Apple, Publix, and Starbucks just to name a few have always managed to balance the two well. However, wireless is EXTREMELY competitive and customers will thank you for appreciation one day then leave you for the latest iPhone the next day. So, is the landscape these days. Your theories on subsidies, revenue and profit are just off the mark and that is the basis of this argument. Not about us vs. them, not corporation vs. customer. Just the fact that anyone who thinks the margin on invoice phones is some number to write home about clearly has either a. been out of wireless for quite some time or b. doesnt know what they are talking about.

I could careless about this merger talk by the way, I am 25 with a BBA in Finance from a great school and am currently working on my masters. I just happen to enjoy wireless and technology. While i appreciate the concern, I’m sure I’ll be just fine.

Anonymous

Hrmm.

It just occurred to me, that you’re still a kid. You win bro, have a nice day.

Anonymous

Hrmm.

It just occurred to me, that you’re still a kid. You win bro, have a nice day.

Jim Thompson0803

You make me sick. You should fucking kill yourself.

Seriously, people like you just need to die.

Anonymous

I’d say you were completely unbelievable, but I’ve been sitting here going down memory lane and I remembered that I was just like you once.

I thought all the customers were idiots and scam artists, and that anybody who spoke ill of T-Mobile was misinformed and ignorant.

Incidentally, the reason I quit is because I was turning into a person I didn’t like very much. I was entertaining myself at work by being a roadblock and making things as difficult for the customers as I could, simply by inflexibly enforcing policy decisions, that I didn’t even really personally agree with. I’d go out to the smoke pit and make fun of the people who called in with huge bills and complain about the people who wanted credits for this and that.

You ever hear of Hannah Arendt, and a concept called “The Banality of Evil?’ Look it up if you haven’t. It’s good food for thought.

Those are real people on the other end of the telephone. They’re calling you with real problems. They aren’t trying to scam you, or run some sort of scheme, or figure out ways to screw you and your employer. They’re just trying to get by, in an economy that’s pretty ugly. (I work for a state employment agency now, and I’ve come to understand how bad things really are for people out there.) Sure, maybe somebody made a silly decision and bought a phone they couldn’t really afford. Maybe they were irresponsible with some bills. Maybe they’re just not that smart. Or maybe, they’re just in a tight spot, and they need to put food on the table, or keep the heat on in the winter, or put gas in the car. Being able to take that data plan off might be the difference between the power getting shut off or not. Who knows?

You know, I had a lady call me once who told me she was living under a bridge with her kids. She wanted me to help her keep her phone on for a few days while she looked for emergency housing.

I didn’t help her. I told her that failing her payment arrangement would mean that her phone would be suspended. She begged and pleaded with me, and I ended the call.

Not one of my prouder moments in life.

If T-Mobile, and the other major carriers really cared about their customers, they would adopt more consumer friendly policies, particularly given the current state of affairs. I’m not saying give away the store, I’m saying have a heart.

But its all about the bottom line, isn’t it?

Well, here’s the bottom line for you. T-Mobile is being devoured by AT&T. AT&T will promptly lay most of workforce off. Whatever they’ve told you in the call center about your future prospects, if it was anything other than, “get your resumes together and learn how to apply for unemployment,” management should be ashamed of themselves. They know what’s coming.

I wish you no ill will, I hope things work out for you.

TakeThePeoplesMoolah

Some are being cheated and wronged its pretty simple to understand. There are people who need Data Plans and there are people who do not. Why should those who dont be forced to pay for them just so they can enjoy a phone they want?

I do not, yet i still pay a company money for something im not using nor needed in the first place. My Galaxy S2 would be completely fine with my home internet and wifi but for some reason T-Mobile feels its acceptable to force their customers to pay for their net regardless.

I dont need T-Mobile data charges just to use their “Internet”.. do these companies not realize we pay for internet. Not everyone on the planet just uses a smart phone to live.. many of us have computers that had existing internet services that we have every right to use because we are paying for it.

I can completely understand them needing to take action so it cannot be abused, but it is not in any way fair for users such as myself to be charged or required to pay for things i will not even use or ever will.

Especially this hotspot nonsense, requiring me to turn my phone into a router when i already pay for Internet and a router separately is ludicrous in itself. This smartphone crap is getting taken too far.

Like i said how would you feel walking into a store to buy a computer, lets say you are a music producer and your sole purpose of using it will simply be for music. Are you seriously going to tell me if you bought that computer and they told you “you cant buy this computer without paying for internet from a providers we choose” you would just feel thats right? you would honestly tell me that wouldnt feel wrong to you in anyway?

i really dont think i need to explain my point further, the only people who seem to think this is right are people who literally only have a smartphone as the one technological device to drive them throughout their life.. sadly T-Mobile and cell phone carriers arent internet providers and should stop trying to be them. Its beyond ridiculous smart phones are becoming harder to get than a actual computer which they literally are now.. just tiny ones.

Anonymous

This topic and thread is so old that I can’t really figure out why anyone is skimming through this reading this. You should read the full thread of comments because I will not dedicate a lot of time to this response. Your comparison does not play. If you bought a computer for whatever purpose you bought it for well then it is in your power to do whatever you want with it. The computers are being sold to you at the MSRP which means the vendor is immediately turning a profit. A more appropriate example would be; The computer is being sold to you at 40% of the MSRP but a stipulation of that price is that you have to sign a 2 year agreement to pay for internet with a provider of their choosing. Guess What? You have a choice to make don’t you? You can choose to pay the MSRP or take the “sweet deal”, which is really just trading the now for the later. You could’ve just as easily purchased your GSII off of Craigslist or somewhere else and not had to worry about T-Mobile’s data rates. Hell I sold 2 GSII models on Craigslist a couple months ago because I left T-Mobile to work for the greatest technology company of today’s era. You made a choice to get a subsidized handset. You signed a contract. What is so difficult to understand about that? You think you’re entitled to a phone because someone provided you with service for two years? That’s just fulfilling a contract. Is a Baseball player owed a new contract because he just finished 5 years of service of which he was under contract? Your argument is foolish and juvenile. You have a choice. Only a fool would enter into an agreement then cry foul later. Has the agreement changed on either end? No. Attacking the low class and middle class customer base is the reason tmobile is in it’s current situation. Sure you can rope them in. Once they get in however all they do is b*tch and moan about a contract they signed and terms they didnt read. Go get prepaid. Pay full price for your phone and get whatever plan you want. Then you’ll be complaining though that you didn’t get a discount on a phone. You should really re-read your argument. I’m wondering if it only looks this foolish from where I’m sitting.

Meagan

Don’t stress over something that really won’t matter to anyone after the TmobileUSA merger occurs. Are you going to say, “I really had TmobileUSA’s back, before I got that TmobileUSA pink slip”?

TmobileUSA would have changed it a long time ago, if it really mattered to them.

Anonymous

Well, it could be because the data service policy, as it was originally envisioned, had a provision for customers to have an option to purchase a phone at full cost in order to get out of the data contract. It’s not a loophole, it was very intentional. In fact, we were all told about that specific provision so that we would know to offer that to customers as an option if they were in a situation where perhaps they had lost their smart phone and didn’t want to purchase another one because of lack of upgrade eligibility.

If you were an employee at the time the data service policy was initiated, you would be aware of that.

H8stylist

except that purchasing a second handset after the first just to get out of the data requirement was not the intended purpose of the policy. how rational does that sound? “ok if you buy two phones we won’t make you keep data on your account”. yes, it was a loophole if it was specifically used to remove the data soc. the actual intention of the policy was for customers who genuinely had lost their phones. if you read the policy no where in the policy does it say if a customer wants to remove the data soc to offer them to buy a handset at full retail. it even gave scripted responses if the customer said they were going to cancel due to the data requirement.

but of course, you knew that already i am sure lol

Anonymous

This guy is so full of it, all of his posts are opinion biased garbage.

Anonymous

Yes, that’s exactly what I said. It was for people who lost their phones.

Apparently you have a reading problem.

H8stylist

“Well, it could be because the data service policy, as it was originally envisioned, had a provision for customers to have an option to purchase a phone at full cost in order to get out of the data contract.”
apparantly you have a writing problem. nowhere in that statement did you specify for lost phones only.

H8stylist

“Well, it could be because the data service policy, as it was originally envisioned, had a provision for customers to have an option to purchase a phone at full cost in order to get out of the data contract.”
apparantly you have a writing problem. nowhere in that statement did you specify for lost phones only.

Anonymous

Perhaps you should try reading the two sentences that came after that before you formulate your next half-cocked reply. If you do, you’ll notice the word, “lost” figures prominently. If you have a reading deficiency, try “Ctrl+F” and type in the word “lost.” Your browser will allow you to jump between instances of that word that appear on the page you’re viewing. A few clicks, and you should run into my post.

And I didn’t say it was for lost phones only, because it wasn’t for lost phones ONLY. The policy was intended for lost phones, and other appropriate situations. Lost phones happen to be one of the situations that came up more frequently.

H8stylist

again you attack my post where i state you were implying that the policy was for more than just lost phones, and you end your post stating the same thing. no where in the policy did it allow for it other than lost phone situations. if a customer called in stating they couldn’t afford it, you were not supposed to allow it. if a customer called in stating they had no use for it, you were not supposed to allow it. the policy had specific responses for each situation and only in lost phones was it allowed. you are why they are making this change. you think it was OK to do this, you think it was worded in the policy, you probably proactively offered it to customers. you were wrong. using it any other manner than the original intention (lost phone) is a loophole.

Anonymous

Well, yes, I do think it was okay to do that. I think that the data service policy is morally indefensible, and I believe that people need to make the right decisions regardless of what some policy document tells them.

It’s always okay to do the right thing.

But, in any case, it doesn’t matter, because when the policy was first implemented we were trained on it by a team manager, who told us all explicitly that we could make that particular offer when the situation called for it, as long as we used our best judgement.

Either ways, I’ve long since grown tired of this conversation. Believe whatever you like.

H8stylist

so now you are not only admitting you were operating outside company policy, you are saying it is ok to ignore it?

while i admit one of the biggest things i do not miss about working for tmobile is the drastic differences in leadership, i still did not think it was ok to ignore company policy. it is not your place to decide what is ok and what is not ok when it comes to specific policy. you can attack it as a consumer and that is your right. but to ignore a policy simply because you do not agree with it is “morally indefensible”.

the policy is there so that t-mobile could still offer great subsidies on phones that were still very expensive. do you remember how much the tmobile wing was when it came out? after the subsidy it was 399.99. now we have larger subsidies on phones that are more advanced and atleast as expensive, if not more so, than the wing. yet you thought it was your duty as an employee to sidestep tmobiles desire to make that subsidy back in internet revenue because you found it morally wrong? you say customer service is why tmobile is failing? i say it was your self righteous actions as an employee (and others like you) that helped tmobile get into the position it is in.

how much lost revenue could have been recouped from employees who gave unauthorized credits to customers. removing features that should not have been removed. offering unauthorized handset upgrades to customers. i guarantee you it was in the millions.

Anonymous

Right and wrong are not a thing that is determined by a company policy. Knowing right from wrong comes from within. I haven’t always done the right thing in this world, but I try, and when I fail, I try harder the next time around.

Company policies are written by 28 year old marketing majors and lawyers. I’m not accountable to them, I’m accountable only to myself, and at the end of the day I have to face myself in the mirror and ask myself if I did the right thing that day.

When I was a new hire I was taught that company policies were guidelines, and that we had the authority to bend or break those policies if that was the right thing to do for the customer. We were taught that we should use our best judgement and balance the CEO, and in situations that were questionable we should err on the side of the customer. I kind of lost sight of that at the end of my tenure, I was bitter and angry, and I took it out on the people who called me looking for help with their service. I kind of regret that now. But I took what I learned at T-Mobile about customer service and applied it to my current professional efforts. As it turns out, those skills have proven to be pretty valuable. I’ve forgotten most of the acronyms and catch phrases, but I’ve held on to the spirit of what we were originally taught how to do.

T-Mobile is failing because it no longer presents a compelling proposition for consumers in the marketplace, for a number of reasons which could be dissected ad infinitum. Someday, very soon I suspect, you, and your teammates are going to be looking for new jobs. And I imagine, that on the day you collect your last paycheck, whatever loyalty you had for T-Mobile, whatever zeal you have for protecting T-Mobile’s bottom line, will vanish, and all you will have is your memories.

Try to take away something positive. I wish you the best of luck in all your future endeavors.

Anonymous

Right and wrong are not a thing that is determined by a company policy. Knowing right from wrong comes from within. I haven’t always done the right thing in this world, but I try, and when I fail, I try harder the next time around.

Company policies are written by 28 year old marketing majors and lawyers. I’m not accountable to them, I’m accountable only to myself, and at the end of the day I have to face myself in the mirror and ask myself if I did the right thing that day.

When I was a new hire I was taught that company policies were guidelines, and that we had the authority to bend or break those policies if that was the right thing to do for the customer. We were taught that we should use our best judgement and balance the CEO, and in situations that were questionable we should err on the side of the customer. I kind of lost sight of that at the end of my tenure, I was bitter and angry, and I took it out on the people who called me looking for help with their service. I kind of regret that now. But I took what I learned at T-Mobile about customer service and applied it to my current professional efforts. As it turns out, those skills have proven to be pretty valuable. I’ve forgotten most of the acronyms and catch phrases, but I’ve held on to the spirit of what we were originally taught how to do.

T-Mobile is failing because it no longer presents a compelling proposition for consumers in the marketplace, for a number of reasons which could be dissected ad infinitum. Someday, very soon I suspect, you, and your teammates are going to be looking for new jobs. And I imagine, that on the day you collect your last paycheck, whatever loyalty you had for T-Mobile, whatever zeal you have for protecting T-Mobile’s bottom line, will vanish, and all you will have is your memories.

Try to take away something positive. I wish you the best of luck in all your future endeavors.

Anonymous

Right and wrong are not a thing that is determined by a company policy. Knowing right from wrong comes from within. I haven’t always done the right thing in this world, but I try, and when I fail, I try harder the next time around.

Company policies are written by 28 year old marketing majors and lawyers. I’m not accountable to them, I’m accountable only to myself, and at the end of the day I have to face myself in the mirror and ask myself if I did the right thing that day.

When I was a new hire I was taught that company policies were guidelines, and that we had the authority to bend or break those policies if that was the right thing to do for the customer. We were taught that we should use our best judgement and balance the CEO, and in situations that were questionable we should err on the side of the customer. I kind of lost sight of that at the end of my tenure, I was bitter and angry, and I took it out on the people who called me looking for help with their service. I kind of regret that now. But I took what I learned at T-Mobile about customer service and applied it to my current professional efforts. As it turns out, those skills have proven to be pretty valuable. I’ve forgotten most of the acronyms and catch phrases, but I’ve held on to the spirit of what we were originally taught how to do.

T-Mobile is failing because it no longer presents a compelling proposition for consumers in the marketplace, for a number of reasons which could be dissected ad infinitum. Someday, very soon I suspect, you, and your teammates are going to be looking for new jobs. And I imagine, that on the day you collect your last paycheck, whatever loyalty you had for T-Mobile, whatever zeal you have for protecting T-Mobile’s bottom line, will vanish, and all you will have is your memories.

Try to take away something positive. I wish you the best of luck in all your future endeavors.

Anonymous

Well, yes, I do think it was okay to do that. I think that the data service policy is morally indefensible, and I believe that people need to make the right decisions regardless of what some policy document tells them.

It’s always okay to do the right thing.

But, in any case, it doesn’t matter, because when the policy was first implemented we were trained on it by a team manager, who told us all explicitly that we could make that particular offer when the situation called for it, as long as we used our best judgement.

Either ways, I’ve long since grown tired of this conversation. Believe whatever you like.

Anonymous

Well, yes, I do think it was okay to do that. I think that the data service policy is morally indefensible, and I believe that people need to make the right decisions regardless of what some policy document tells them.

It’s always okay to do the right thing.

But, in any case, it doesn’t matter, because when the policy was first implemented we were trained on it by a team manager, who told us all explicitly that we could make that particular offer when the situation called for it, as long as we used our best judgement.

Either ways, I’ve long since grown tired of this conversation. Believe whatever you like.

H8stylist

again you attack my post where i state you were implying that the policy was for more than just lost phones, and you end your post stating the same thing. no where in the policy did it allow for it other than lost phone situations. if a customer called in stating they couldn’t afford it, you were not supposed to allow it. if a customer called in stating they had no use for it, you were not supposed to allow it. the policy had specific responses for each situation and only in lost phones was it allowed. you are why they are making this change. you think it was OK to do this, you think it was worded in the policy, you probably proactively offered it to customers. you were wrong. using it any other manner than the original intention (lost phone) is a loophole.

H8stylist

again you attack my post where i state you were implying that the policy was for more than just lost phones, and you end your post stating the same thing. no where in the policy did it allow for it other than lost phone situations. if a customer called in stating they couldn’t afford it, you were not supposed to allow it. if a customer called in stating they had no use for it, you were not supposed to allow it. the policy had specific responses for each situation and only in lost phones was it allowed. you are why they are making this change. you think it was OK to do this, you think it was worded in the policy, you probably proactively offered it to customers. you were wrong. using it any other manner than the original intention (lost phone) is a loophole.

Anonymous

Perhaps you should try reading the two sentences that came after that before you formulate your next half-cocked reply. If you do, you’ll notice the word, “lost” figures prominently. If you have a reading deficiency, try “Ctrl+F” and type in the word “lost.” Your browser will allow you to jump between instances of that word that appear on the page you’re viewing. A few clicks, and you should run into my post.

And I didn’t say it was for lost phones only, because it wasn’t for lost phones ONLY. The policy was intended for lost phones, and other appropriate situations. Lost phones happen to be one of the situations that came up more frequently.

Anonymous

Perhaps you should try reading the two sentences that came after that before you formulate your next half-cocked reply. If you do, you’ll notice the word, “lost” figures prominently. If you have a reading deficiency, try “Ctrl+F” and type in the word “lost.” Your browser will allow you to jump between instances of that word that appear on the page you’re viewing. A few clicks, and you should run into my post.

And I didn’t say it was for lost phones only, because it wasn’t for lost phones ONLY. The policy was intended for lost phones, and other appropriate situations. Lost phones happen to be one of the situations that came up more frequently.

H8stylist

“Well, it could be because the data service policy, as it was originally envisioned, had a provision for customers to have an option to purchase a phone at full cost in order to get out of the data contract.”
apparantly you have a writing problem. nowhere in that statement did you specify for lost phones only.

Anonymous

You’re full of it, this was never a policy openly shared with customers. It was a last resort option to save a customer who had not been properly right fitted for a phone and subsequently ended up footing the bill for something they GENUINELY didnt need. You need to delete yourself.

Anonymous

Well, you’re wrong about that. When we were all trained on the policy that particular facet was not only discussed, but it was presented as one of the options we should offer customers if they were in a situation that called for it. You’re correct insomuch as it was not something that I would bring up right away as soon as the conversation about the data policy started, but it wasn’t something that I was told to obfuscate either.

However, this conversation is getting tiring, so believe whatever you like.

JackBlackSmack

you must have been trained as an indirect dealer haha

JackBlackSmack

you must have been trained as an indirect dealer haha

Aplace2sendstuff

This is the oncoming of ATT People…

Aplace2sendstuff

This is the oncoming of ATT People…

Aplace2sendstuff

This is the oncoming of ATT People…

derek 21

your incorrect, it wasn’t a save option it’s written in the policy, you need to delete yourself reps have always been able to tell customer’s that no longer wanted data up until august 8th, that they could purchase a full price phone that did not require data with an upgrade, so it couldn’t be a smartphone , and the retail support would have it removed long as you had proof of purchase.

Anonymous

The policy was not designed as a loophole, it was designed to save customers who were not properly fit for the chosen device. If It wasn’t being abused it would’ve still been here, don’t feel righteous or more in the know because of something your retail manager or in store leader might have told you, this conversation closed weeks ago. You don’t know what you’re talking about. As far as written in the policy, this is what not explicitly written anywhere, what would stop an idiot like you from telling a customer yeah you can buy this G2x today and buy a $60 flip phone next month and have the Data removed. <— that train of thought make sense? No? Didn't think so… Carry on please.

will

That’s what a rep told me and now I’m stuck with data that I never use. People should have the right to cancel their data, it not like they are leaving the company. But no T-Mobile is a greedy company that is only hurting the economy by forcing people to pay for something they don’t use, to get rich when dying business’s could use that money.

derek 21

your incorrect, it wasn’t a save option it’s written in the policy, you need to delete yourself reps have always been able to tell customer’s that no longer wanted data up until august 8th, that they could purchase a full price phone that did not require data with an upgrade, so it couldn’t be a smartphone , and the retail support would have it removed long as you had proof of purchase.

derek 21

your incorrect, it wasn’t a save option it’s written in the policy, you need to delete yourself reps have always been able to tell customer’s that no longer wanted data up until august 8th, that they could purchase a full price phone that did not require data with an upgrade, so it couldn’t be a smartphone , and the retail support would have it removed long as you had proof of purchase.

Anonymous

It probably is less stressful but a few years ago I knew people that were set on buying a blackberry or another smartphone without a data plan specifically because they wanted the perks of a smartphone without having to pay data. One of those people was a man in his 60s on att with a grandfathered plan from Cingular that came from cellular one he wanted smartphone functionality without paying data because he can’t afford it and doesn’t need it. The same for a teenage girl who took forever as I was next in line at a tmobile store. She told her mom she finally worked hard enough to make enough money for an off contract blackberry then she was told by the sales rep she needed to pay for the data plan. It took her and her mom over an hour to stop arguing and the rep allowed the phone without a data plan. So it looks like yes this might be better for sales associates but also bad for customers who don’t have the prepaid option because of coverage or who are under contract.

derek 21

if you buy it full price you are not required to have data so i doubt that’s what they were debating about!

derek 21

if you buy it full price you are not required to have data so i doubt that’s what they were debating about!

Anonymous

It probably is less stressful but a few years ago I knew people that were set on buying a blackberry or another smartphone without a data plan specifically because they wanted the perks of a smartphone without having to pay data. One of those people was a man in his 60s on att with a grandfathered plan from Cingular that came from cellular one he wanted smartphone functionality without paying data because he can’t afford it and doesn’t need it. The same for a teenage girl who took forever as I was next in line at a tmobile store. She told her mom she finally worked hard enough to make enough money for an off contract blackberry then she was told by the sales rep she needed to pay for the data plan. It took her and her mom over an hour to stop arguing and the rep allowed the phone without a data plan. So it looks like yes this might be better for sales associates but also bad for customers who don’t have the prepaid option because of coverage or who are under contract.

jarjon76

You have “freedom of choice”, drama queen. You’re mad because you want, want, want without having to pay. Your overly defensive tone speaks volumes (pun intended)–you’re part of the problem.

Anonymous

Of course, blame your business problems on the customer! If only those irritating customers would just sit down, shut up and do what they’re told!

Life would sure be a lot simpler if everybody would just get with the program, huh?

jarjon76

WHOOSH! My point went right over your head. Again, this goes back to you wanting, wanting, wanting and refusing to give anything.

Anonymous

I don’t want anything. As I think I’ve made more than clear, I purchase my phones through third party sources. I simply find T-Mobile’s data service policy to be particularly offensive. (And that goes for all the other carriers too. Like my dad used to say, “if everybody was jumping off a bridge, would you do it too?”)

What I find more interesting on a philosophical level is why anybody who is presumably part of the working class would defend those policies. Why do American’s sympathize with the interests of those who don’t have their best interest in mind?

It’ll make for fruitful discussion in a thesis someday, I think.

derek 21

because it’s the way it is like no one is defending anything, it’s the way it was with every major company, the other guy is right if you don’t like it leave, your substantial amount you pay every month or that you claim you pay is your choice as a consumer, no one is putting a gun to these people heads and making them say ok sign me up like get the h*** out of here with that. i want a low priced top of the line phone because i pay for minutes and text every month, get out of here with that. let me come to your job whatever it is and try that.

Anonymous

This subject has been talked to death, so I see very little point in resurrecting the discussion. I won’t bother to dignify the implication that I don’t pay my bills with a response.

Anonymous

This subject has been talked to death, so I see very little point in resurrecting the discussion. I won’t bother to dignify the implication that I don’t pay my bills with a response.

Meagan

While on the subject of data plans. What data plans can you currently get for a iPhone? I don’t need unlimited data since I am always near a (way faster) WiFi connection at home/work.

Meagan

While on the subject of data plans. What data plans can you currently get for a iPhone? I don’t need unlimited data since I am always near a (way faster) WiFi connection at home/work.

Meagan

While on the subject of data plans. What data plans can you currently get for a iPhone? I don’t need unlimited data since I am always near a (way faster) WiFi connection at home/work.

dj_mik

These comments are at odds….

“Yes, I also want T-Mobile to pick up part of the cost of that
equipment in order to keep me around as a customer”

And

“I’m a pretty sophisticated user of Android in fact,
sophisticated enough to realize that there’s absolutely no reason the phone
needs a data plan”

And one more to bring it all together….

“I pay a substantial amount every month”

So, I conclude that you want a data-centric device, subsidized,
without the data plan. You clearly don’t understand subsidies in this industry.
Before I go further, I will say that I also dislike the utter gouging we
experience form these carriers, and I do think their claims on the actual cost of
a device is inflated as to make the subsidy even more profitable. That said, your
claim of “Freedom” is ridiculous. If you want that freedom, there is a far
simpler solution. Buy the device at full price and use it on any compatible
carrier with any plan you want.

Guest001

Look data plans are part of the agreement if you don’t want it don’t pay full price or look at something else…i can’t count how many customers moan about data so I show them something that does not require data and they don’t like it. This is why T-Mobile offers $10.00 data plans yes it’s only 200mb of the fastest data that your phone can handle after that it just runs slower. As a rep for magenta this has become repetitive and simply annoying.

Roger

I’d jump at the chance for a $10 data plan. Instead I was forced on the $30 Android one. Despite working in Silicon Valley and being at home in a “4G” city I get extremely crappy coverage from Tmobile and end up using wifi everywhere (that tmobile didn’t pay for or provide). My cellular data usage is 30MB per month so that $10 plan would be perfect.

JackBlackSmack

just call and change it. you have lower data options available.

derek 21

no he doesn’t want to change his plan or extend his contract again to take advantage of the lower rates, he’s on a grandfathered plan.

JackBlackSmack

just call and change it. you have lower data options available.

derek 21

it really is

derek 21

it really is

derek 21

it really is

Krissloverman

people should have the right to chose what they want to buy. why should other suffer with a crap phone just because they dont want a data plan? This is some forced comunist B.S. Im an American and should have the right to chose with out being forced to pay for something i never use.

Fartedallthetime

No guys what was happening was customers were buying a BlackBerry which required a data feature than they would call after getting the phone and buy a Nokia 2330 for 50 bucks retail, when the customer purchased a non dat required device the system would allow us to remove the data feature. Now that won’t be the case and you can thank the fraud ring in flushing New York for this they were the ones that would order 5 blackberries on one account and have data removed with the Nokia a week later so they could sell the phones and the worst is it was indirect dealers

Meagan

Anyone know if you can use the 1500 Talk & Text Plan plus a $10 Data Plan (for additional mb’s) on an iPhone?

Meagan

Anyone know if you can use the 1500 Talk & Text Plan plus a $10 Data Plan (for additional mb’s) on an iPhone?

Meagan

Anyone know if you can use the 1500 Talk & Text Plan plus a $10 Data Plan (for additional mb’s) on an iPhone?

Meagan

Anyone know if you can use the 1500 Talk & Text Plan plus a $10 Data Plan (for additional mb’s) on an iPhone?

Sky

Yes, Meagan you can do that. The internet is going to be 2g only and very slow tho!

Meagan

Anyone know if you can use the 1500 Talk & Text Plan plus a $10 Data Plan (for additional mb’s) on an iPhone?

JackBlackSmack

the feature you are talking about is no longer available. there is no longer a distinction between smart and dump phones. all data on tmobile now supports any phone you use, and the only variation is for blackberry or not.

JackBlackSmack

the feature you are talking about is no longer available. there is no longer a distinction between smart and dump phones. all data on tmobile now supports any phone you use, and the only variation is for blackberry or not.

JackBlackSmack

the feature you are talking about is no longer available. there is no longer a distinction between smart and dump phones. all data on tmobile now supports any phone you use, and the only variation is for blackberry or not.

Octavio

I’ve been reading all of the post and these scams are nothing new. We all remembered the iphone 3g when it was hot and we all can remember when AT&T had unlimited data plan for pre-paid or gophone for $19.99 a month. Dude they really milked AT&T good with that one. So there were some kats out there who was sporting an iphone on a gophone data plan. If i would of caught on early to this i would have done this myself but too bad for me I am not into iphone anyway.

Octavio

I’ve been reading all of the post and these scams are nothing new. We all remembered the iphone 3g when it was hot and we all can remember when AT&T had unlimited data plan for pre-paid or gophone for $19.99 a month. Dude they really milked AT&T good with that one. So there were some kats out there who was sporting an iphone on a gophone data plan. If i would of caught on early to this i would have done this myself but too bad for me I am not into iphone anyway.

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