Are you a cop? Do you carry a gun? Don't go to the Denny's in Belleville, Ill.

You are not allowed, the police chief says. Not after what happened Tuesday.

The flapjacks -- sorry, the flap -- began when several on-duty detectives with the Belleville Police Department dropped in to Denny's for some on-duty noshing, according to local media.

They had their badges and their guns, but as detectives, not their uniforms, according to the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. This bothered a patron who then complained to a manager, David Rice, who then complained to one of the detectives: Please take your gun to your car or leave. No guns allowed.

"Upon further discussion, we became aware the individual was a plain-clothed police officer," Denny's spokeswoman Liz DiTrapano said in a statement, according to the News-Democrat. "Denny's policy permits law enforcement officials to carry their firearms in the restaurant, and we regret any misunderstanding."

Denny's sure does, because despite the efforts of a general manager who tried (and failed) to clear up the misunderstanding before the detectives left, the department's chief banned on-duty and off-duty police in uniform from returning to the restaurant.

"This was an insult, a slap in the face, to those detectives and to all of the men and women who proudly wear the uniform or badge and serve in law enforcement," Police Chief William Clay said, according to the News-Democrat.

"This individual [Rice] was the manager of Denny's. He therefore speaks for Denny's, in my mind. This policy effectively prohibits on-duty sworn police officers from dining in a Denny's Restaurant, but allows 'registered sex offenders,' 'felons' and or 'pedophiles' to enjoy a dining experience in Denny's."

Typical knee-jerk reaction to seeing a person with a gun in our country. The automatic assumption is that there is something wrong with this. The appropriate reaction by the GM would have been to inquire of the nicely dressed, clean cut individuals whether they were LE or private citizens. He could then have intelligently applied his company's policy as they require him to do. Instead, he gave Denny's another black eye.

The end of the story should have been him tossing out the wusses who made the complaint against the detectives in plainclothes with badges just wanting to eat. I don't think the guns made any attempt to jump out of their holsters and kill people up to that point, right?

I don't think the guns made any attempt to jump out of their holsters and kill people up to that point, right?

Or even after I'm sure. Saw a different story on the incident, that said there were radios on the table also. That the offending detective had taken her coat off, and her badge was right next to the offensive sidearm.

Although the real irony is that in a commercial last year for denny's was a line that the right to keep and bear arms, is one of the things that make this country great. I'm guessing no one at this particular denny's saw that commercial, or at the corporate offices either since I guess they have a policy of no firearms.

When I had read this news story I could only shake my head at the Manager. From the story I read the GM came out from where ever and tried to correct the Manager, but regardless what a FUBAR on their part.

I have a problem with detectives not carrying concealed. It's stupid, not tactically sound and creates problems like this.

I'm confused, just how is this different than a uniformed officer sitting down for a meal? Badges, guns, portable radios? It was quite clear they were cops, how would this be tactically unsound?

__________________Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter.
Ernest Hemingway, "On the Blue Water," Esquire, April 1936

I'm confused, just how is this different than a uniformed officer sitting down for a meal? Badges, guns, portable radios? It was quite clear they were cops, how would this be tactically unsound?

Because if you are in uniform, you have no choice in letting people know who you are and what you do. So you do what you can to minimize the danger with tactical awareness.

If you are in plainclothes, and keep your gun concealed, nobody should know you are a cop in the first place unless you choose to expose it. So when you are in a public place, and something goes down, nobody would immediately identify you as a cop and target you first and you can maintain some modicum of stealth and gain tactical advantage by choosing when to take action after deciding, as much as you can, the time and place to take action, if any action is to be taken. Sometimes you can't take action because you are outgunned or whatnot, and you can remain anonymous and stay alive to be a good witness.

Walking around with your badge and gun exposed in plainclothes pretty much negates any of that choice.

Well, I guess at the restaurant next to my office, the local DOJ facility, sheriff sub-station and contract city PD HQ, we're all doing it wrong....my bad. After 33 years it's unlikely that I'll be changing anytime soon.

__________________Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter.
Ernest Hemingway, "On the Blue Water," Esquire, April 1936

Well, I guess at the restaurant next to my office, the local DOJ facility, sheriff sub-station and contract city PD HQ, we're all doing it wrong....my bad. After 33 years it's unlikely that I'll be changing anytime soon.

Hey, you do whatever works for you, but if I am in plainclothes, last thing I want is to give up the initiative to take action. I take action when I dictate and not because some waiter is yelling, "Hey, you're a cop, do something!" or have the scumbag just shoot me first because he knows who is the threat.

I'm sorry, but we're supposed to have thick skins. The manager got caught in a goofy situation and then tried to make amends before it got out of control. Maybe he made a dumb move - haven't we all? Yet somehow it got to a boycott by the Department.

I think it just makes the cops look bad. I almost pray there was more to the story than this.