Hello,
I am new on this forum but have been lurking. Getting my first wakeboard boat since I sold my 07 sanger V215 4 years ago. I would love some positive input on the wakes of both boats. I know that Bu is about 6 inches longer but they both have quad ballast(supra in bow with flex ballast) which I believe is about 2200 lbs. Going to demo both this next weekend but any input would be great. No negativity. Please don't put down either brand. tHANKS

As far as the Supra goes, the wake is pretty decent with stock PnP and has the ability to get HUGE with extra weight. Due to the hull shape, it doesn't have a huge stock wake by any means but it is such that the wake will stay clean no matter how much weight you put in it and continue to get bigger and bigger. It will also stay clean all the way down to about 17 MPH, which is nice if you're pulling beginners. The wake is a lot rampier than the other boats in the supra line up, but does steepen up with weight and the proper wakeplate settings. Definitely a super versatile wake that is capable of being as big as you want it to be.

With that being said, I've ridden a slammed 23 lsv and it was hands down one of the best wakes i've ever ridden. I really don't think you could go wrong with either one. It could easily come down to which styling and interior layout works best for you

Thanks for your input. The LSV is a limited 30 year anniversary edition. It's loaded as is the supra so price comparison pretty close I don't know why the MXZ doesn't interest. Maybe because of my wife. LOL. Thanks

I went through a similar decision a few months ago. I sold my Malibu VLX because I wanted to upgrade to Surf Gate. Along that way I got distracted by the SA450 when I took a demo with the factory rep. Needless to say, i was super impressed with the SA, and so it made my decision harder. The main things I liked about the SA were the low speed wake (Malibu has it too, just was surprised to see it on a Supra), the tower/bimini (super easier to fold and operate), the exterior styling (looks like a Lambo), and the nicely appointed interior.

But at the end of the day, I ordered another VLX. The pull of Surf Gate was a major consideration. I demo'd a few Surf Gate boats (both VLX and LSV), and I loved it. Also, in my case I could not get an SA350 for anywhere near the price of the VLX. I was comparing the SA350 to VLX because they both fit in my garage, whereas an LSV does not. Even still, I was a little disappointed that I couldn't get a Supra with the base motor down to Malibu pricing. In my mind, it should have been close. But honestly, it wasn't... which made my decision easy.

The other thing I noticed about the SA450 is that it's LOUD! Check out these videos.

The first video is the SA450 I demo'd at WOT taken from the dock.

The second video is my buddy's LSV at WOT with the same motor (Indmar 6.2L LS3) taken from the same dock.

Notice how different they sound. The SA450 sounds like NASCAR. The Malibu is whisper quiet. I can't figure out why the same motor would produce such different sounds. It could be the exhaust systems are totally different, maybe the Malibu Silent Tip Exhaust is really as good as advertised. Or it could be that the SA450 (which was originally the SA550 unveiled last Fall) didn't get a complete exhaust system when they swapped in the LS3 for the demo tour.

Both throw great wakeboard wakes, no surfgate on the Supra. This would be the dealbreaker for me, have you taken the boats out on the water for a demo? You are writing the check, I would highly recommend spending time in each boat on the water. I will say surfgate is legit. Both boats are quality built, it comes down to a lot of personal preference and what you like better in each boat.

If I had the cash on hand I would be rolling the SA450 for sure. I have had several supras and the new SA really is sweet and really has changed the entire Supra lineup. We got to demo it as well and the wake board wake was massive and pretty easy to load up the boat. The surf wave was good (not great) and I am sure with some tweaking could be made even better. If surfing is not a big deal for you then give the SA a strong look. As others have said, take them out and demo them. In the end you really need to decide for yourself.

Regarding the engine noise on the SA, it does have tuned exhaust, so that mean growl is on purpose. When inside the boat, however, it's really not much louder than other boats with the same Indmar powerplants

Regarding the engine noise on the SA, it does have tuned exhaust, so that mean growl is on purpose. When inside the boat, however, it's really not much louder than other boats with the same Indmar powerplants

Good point. I rode around in the SA450 for at least an hour and don't remember thinking it was too loud inside. In fact, when I shot the video of the fly by I was actually in awe... the little boy in me loved/lusted for that sound! It was only when I got out on my buddies LSV with the same motor a few months later that I noted the difference.

I would go with the SA, its a new hull, solid wake, you just said you dont care about surfing so why even bother spend 3k on something you're never gonna use. But most importantly its a NEW hull, who knows if the lsv hull will be outgoing in the next few model years. dont know what the pricing is but thats my reasoning.

I can tell you for a fact that the 23 LSV wake is not going to change for 2014. I ordered a 2013 LSV, which I will pick up tomorrow. While there will probably be some cosmetic changes for '14, if I thought that there was going to be a hull redesign, which altered or changed the 23 LSV wake, I wouldn't have purchased one. Other than the Axis A22, I like the 23 LSV wake the best. I have not ridden a SA450, so I can't speak to the wake. Here' s what I do know. Tons of people love the 23 LSV wake. Consumers on a national level are familiar with and comfortable with that boat and wake. The SA series boats look cool, and may produce a good wake. However, I haven't seen a single one in my area. I haven't heard much about the wake (good or bad).

I like Supra's boats. I think that they, historically, have been fairly priced for what you get. Now, let's be fair, the SA series is Supra's attempt to rebrand itself as a boat that's on par, price wise, option wise, styling wise, and quality wise, with malibu, nautique and mastercraft. We have seen the same thing from Tige over the past few seasons with their RZ series boats. Tige seems to have been fairly successful. Good for Tige. My concern is that buying a SA series supra for the same money as you can get a blinged out LSV or MXZ may be somewhat risky down the line. Depending on how long you keep your boat, and whether resale is a concern, I'd think hard about where you'd be in, say, 3 years on an SA from a resale prospective. You may be perfectly fine. I'm not saying you won't. I'm just saying that there's no track record or prior resale histor for you to consider.

To me, if you buy a loaded SA450 (which is the upper flagship boat of Supra's lineup), it's like buying the nicest house in a moderatley priced development constructed by one contractor. You are getting the best that that particular neighborhood/development has to offer. What happens when you put that house up for sale? Does the average consumer tend to possibly offer a little less because the average prices in that neighborhood are lower and/or because the average build quality may be, overall, lower (say not every house has granite, stainless steel appliances, etc. like yours) than some other neighborhoods? Maybe.

Buying an LSV, or 230 or X30 or something like that puts you more in the position of buying a really nice house in a development where some are nicer than yours (with more ultra high end uptions like marble floors, sub z friges, etc.) and some are not quite as nice, but still essentially the same options your house does. Consumers may look at the spectrum of prices of the comparable homes in that neighborhood, and the average build quality, and may be more fair on the price they assign to your home when it goes up for sale.

I'm rambling here, but I guess I just look at the SA450 as somewhat of a risky boat because there are unknowns (like resale price, actualy wake characteristics, and dependability). All of these factors may end up being non-issues and/or may even weigh in favor of buying an SA450. Who knows? By demoing both boats, you can at least figure out which wake suits your style better. Personally, I just don't want to be the guinnie pig. Also, there's something about me that makes me wonder whether the SA450 price seems a bit inflated compared to what you can get for the same money from CC, MC or BU. Maybe once I see one on the water, and get a chance to ride behind one, I'll see it differently.

I ordered a 2013 LSV, which I will pick up tomorrow. While there will probably be some cosmetic changes for '14, if I thought that there was going to be a hull redesign, which altered or changed the 23 LSV wake, I wouldn't have purchased one.

Don't you get a new boat every year and have for the 3 230's and 2 a22s and 1 malibu lsv? so 6 years in a row?

New LSV will be out for 2014, sounds like some great upgrades. Just hope they don't change the hull. In my opinion it's the best all around wake hull in the industry. Incredible wakeboard wake stock, and insane slammed. Clean at any speed. If you're willing to run heavy one of the best surf wakes. You can get a 20ft pocket with a great lip and tons of push out of it when weighted right. All in all my favorite boat.

I do get a new boat every year, which is why resale is so important to me. If I thought I'd have trouble flipping a boat, I wouldn't buy it. I heard that there were going to be some changes to the LSV for '14. After ascertaining what those were, I felt that I would be safe buying an '13 and selling it at the end of the season if I go that route.

Hope not, because I hope to order one in Dec. I've heard most of the above the water line changes, and one was key to getting my wife on board. Just didn't ask about the hull, which I should have. Love the LSV, such a great boat.

I do get a new boat every year, which is why resale is so important to me. If I thought I'd have trouble flipping a boat, I wouldn't buy it. I heard that there were going to be some changes to the LSV for '14. After ascertaining what those were, I felt that I would be safe buying an '13 and selling it at the end of the season if I go that route.

So then here lies wise advice.

followed by more wisdom.

Not all of us flip our boats yearly, some of us keep our boats for lengths of time.
In this case immediate resale is not relevant for next year or the year after, rather 5+ years down the road. The LSV will likely become the vride 23 or discontinued in that time, the SA will likely still be running and will likely have an established reputation like the lsv... I would not purchase a possibly outgoing product if i was keeping it for a length of time, my.02

Not all of us flip our boats yearly, some of us keep our boats for lengths of time.
In this case immediate resale is not relevant for next year or the year after, rather 5+ years down the road. The LSV will likely become the vride 23 or discontinued in that time, the SA will likely still be running and will likely have an established reputation like the lsv... I would not purchase a possibly outgoing product if i was keeping it for a length of time, my.02

The changes are mostly just aesthetic and in line with some of their other models, the boat itself won't be radically different. Take a look at the 247lsv and you'll get some ideas of some of the changes. It's not like the whole boat will over hauled

If you think the 23LSV hull will be discontinued, relegated to a lower model, etc. in the near future, you are misinformed. The 23 LSV is Malibu's top selling model. With the non-hull related changes that are coming for '14, you can rest assured, the wake will remain the same for a while.

The current wetted surface aspects of the LSV hull were introduced in '08. Like I said, with the changes that will be made for '14, which may affect non-wetted surface aspects of the hull, I'd expect the wake to remain the same for a long time to come.

no, but a hull that just came out, is more likely to go unchanged in 5 years time vs a boat that came out in what? 07? 08?

There is no reason to change the hull, it's malibus best hull. Have you ever ridden behind one? Everyone I know, from all different kinds of boats, love the LSV wake. It's just a very very solid hull design that doesn't need to be changed anytime in the near future

There is no reason to change the hull, it's malibus best hull. Have you ever ridden behind one? Everyone I know, from all different kinds of boats, love the LSV wake. It's just a very very solid hull design that doesn't need to be changed anytime in the near future

No the LSV is a very popular hull that even the engineers claim as their best hull, why change it at this point? They are making changes to other parts of the boat while it sounds like they are keeping the very popular hull the same.

I am amazed people can flip a boat every year, install a stereo/upgrades, and not take some type of depreciation hit. I know selling my 11 going to a 13 was not a cheap upgrade and I know I got a very good price on both boats. Even if you live in an a state with no sales tax, it seems impossible to me to not take a loss when selling the boat. I did not finance my boat, maybe this is why the upgrade is more costly...

Maybe this is factored into the boat when people flip them. I know most are financing for 15 years, which gives you a low payment but also does nothing to pay the boat down.

I agree flipping a boat every year would be tough. I'm on the 4-5 year plan with my boats. Finishing up the 4th year with my current boat and putting it on the market this sept. Then picking up an LSV in dec during the end of the year sale.

You guys sure bicker on here. Well we played hooky from work yesterday and demo'd SA350 and 450, bu LSV and for good measure a nautique SANTE 230. We bought the SA. There fit and finish was top notch. It's a head turner and felt like driving a sports car. The wakeboard wake was big and no wash even with 3000lbs of ballast and a few people. The surf wake was really nice to. The LSV was nice with a great wake as was the 230 but a little washed out when added more ballast. Seemed a little finicky. Liked them all but loved the SA. Going with the 350 . Plenty of power even if I added 1500 lbs more over the 3,000 it has in it. It wasn't the less expensive of the boats but felt I got a great deal. The CC 230 was nice but I just have a feeling that something is going to change. Dealer said same hull for 7 years me now with the G series I think they could water down next years boat. So I guess I'm the guinea pig. Will post pictures when I figure it out. LOL.

Yes on all 3 boats. And yes 3000 lbs. they had installed the bigger bags. The smart plate was great to. Wife loved the driver seat with height adjustment. Just really loved everything. Wake was super and never crumbled.

Thanks everyone. @Chatwake. The LSV wake was really really good. Didn.t crumble. Kinda like my buddies VLX but wider and bigger. Almost went for,the LSV but the SA was what we chose. Lot of other reasons and some personal. AND the wife loved the color and power heated driver chair. But again the wake was excellent.on the LSV as well.

I chose the SA 350 as well. I rode in the SA 450 but for 8k-10k difference for the 450 compared to the 350 is was a no brainer. We ordered ours a few weeks ago and should be getting it this week. I let my son pick the colors and he decided to murder it out :P

The 450 does have a little more torque and screams like a dragster but the 350 weighted down pulled just as good and has plenty enough power.

Latest update. Not getting SA. Starting all over again. Another look at Malibu and going to look at Natutiques. Pretty bummed but money doesn't just grow on trees. Not going to over pay. .and not willing to be guinea pig!

Interesting turn of events. I really like the look of the SA's, but they seem pretty pricey. So if you are looking at the SA'a, MXZ's, and Nauti's, are you going to check out the X25 or X30 now too? Have fun shopping. Its fun and stressful at the same time trying to make the right decision.

Jake, sounds like you decided to take a step back and think about things. Good for you. I agree that if you're thinking about spending 80-90k, you need to be looking at the MXZ, LSV, maybe a leftover 230 or maybe an X30 or X25 or something. I'm not that familiar with the X30 wake. I know the 230 wake very well, and while it is great for stockish ballast, when you start adding weight (like over 1500lbs) you may find yourself having to ride at like 85+ft at 26+mph to keep the wake consistent. I owned a 2008, 2009 and 2010 230 and had washing problems with the wake on all 3 of those boats when a lot of extra weight was added. Some people on here claim that they have not experienced this issue. I think the general concensus with the 230 is that you have to ride long and fast if you slam the boat. I didn't like doing that, which is one of the reasons I stopped buying 230's. I've heard that CC is about to completely revamp the 210 and 230, and essentially de-tune those boats to try to make them a bit more affordable and to create some space in the pricing structure for the G21. I'd be nervous about investing a ton of money in a boat that I know may be completely redone and essentially rebranded (the 230 was the "flagship" nautique, but now all everyone talks about is the G series). Nevertheless, the 230 is a very roomy, rock solid, attractive boat that surfs very very well.

In regard to the MC's, I could be wrong, but I bet the X30 and X25 are both going to end up being quite a bit more than the SA or LSV you looked at already.

Best of luck with your search. If you don't mind, pm me the BU dealer you are working with.

Good god Chat, if you were so disappointed in the 230 wakes why in the world buy the same boat 3yrs straight? What's that saying "fool me once shame on me, fool me twice....". Also is that your A22 I see back up for sale on onlyinboards?

Anyway to the OP, as Chat pointed out I'd be leery of buying a new 230 now due to expected changes and when so many slightly used ones are out there. But before doing that be dang sure you go ride the thing with 2000lbs extra in it to make sure the wake works for you. I'm interested in upgrading from my 08 210 to a newer 230 but the finicky wake stories have me worried as well. I still love the look and layout of the 230 but if I was buying a new Nautique it would for sure be the G23.
With that said if the 230 doesn't pan out for me this year I have no problem staying right where I'm at either because quite frankly nothing else out there trips my trigger!

the 230 wake AINT finiky! Please.
If you have 4 people on the port side & 2 on the starboard - obviously the wake will be washy on one side.
Balance your weight on the boat, get your speed correct - where the wash is gone, and youre all set.
Look at all the vids of the pros riding the 230 - are they getting wash when they ride up the wake? NOPE.