While it is wonderful to sit around and discuss how amazing we INTJs are, there are other types in the world and we generally have to deal with them more than with fellow INTJs. As a result I will be making weekly posts (as long as there is a good response) about how INTJs interact with others to get feedback on the experiences we INTJs have had with other types and how we've learned to deal with them successfully. I'll be posting this series every Monday featuring a new randomly-selected personality type.

I know one typed INFP and a few people who thought they were an INFP but I wasn't so sure about. My interactions with my INFP friend can best be summarized by this illustrative story:

Once upon a time I was climbing a mountain with friends of mine. It was a beautiful day and I was really enjoying the weather, the company, and the exercise. Suddenly one of my companions shouted at me to freeze. I froze with one foot in the air. She ran over and gently moved me away from where I had been about to trample some delicate, tiny, and endangered mountain flowers. They were beautiful but very very fragile despite living above the tree line on a mountain... and I had nearly squashed them by accident.

Yeah.

My impression of INFPs is that they are fragile; beautiful glass sculptures that I try to handle with welding gloves. Experience says that they (like most people) aren't that fragile. They are spiritual, empathetic, caring, and passive. My friend likes my boldness and confidence. I like her rich inner life. As far as NF relationships go it is one of the less volitile ones possibly because she is not inclined to be intrusive at all. That is sometimes a problem too as it is very easy for me to take on the roll of always initiating which can get draining after a while.

When dealing with INFPs it pays to soften your body language and verbal language as they are sensitive to both and may miss your content in the context.

What are your experiences with INFPs? Personal? Work?How can INTJs deal effectively with INFPs?What are the problem areas between INTJs and INFPs?What makes INTJ-INFP interactions/relationships worth while?

My girlfriend and twin are both INFPs. No, they're not fragile but it really would pay for me to soften my body language and verbal language. The problem I have with them is that they perceive me as being too ruff/gruff/mean and want me to say things in a different, more sensitive way.

That relationship was a disaster. There was almost literally nothing that I could say to her that wouldn't be taken the wrong way. She was hypersensitive to a psychotic degree. She also didn't live in something I like to call the real world; everything that was actually happening in real life had to be filtered through a thick layer of her own fantasies about the way she wanted things to be rather than the way they actually were.

Strangely, in thinking over relationships prior to my wife (an ENFP), I found that almost every other girlfriend I'd ever had was an INFP. Once I realized that, I specifically sought to distance myself from women with that personality type, because although they have their good moments, for the most part I have found them to be emotionally toxic, extremely clingy, and in almost every way a perfect example of the stereotypical "psycho hosebeast".

One of them is very mature, a solid wiccan, not very fragile at all. The second is very cryptic and very Christian, not easy to understand. The possible third is Catholic, but casually so. Also has an interesting rhetoric.

The first and third are supposedly in Kersian relationships(ENTJ)... which is for another post at another time.

For two of the INFPs... getting together with them can be a REAL chore... the third... it's a bit easier, probably because her husband is an ENTJ...

Primarily personal (and presumably a little work-based, too, but not really that big a part of the picture painted here).

Most were (initially) on-line experiences (from which I met several). On several occasions I found them very easy to get along with initially, but often with 'rollercoaster rides'--suddenly something I would say would be taken completely out of context and result in an extreme upset. At such a time it was sometimes hard to figure out what happened, let alone get back to a normal mode of operation. I would say they tend to be intense, with their very own value systems and (extremely) touchy points (often to do with a certain insecurity). Although I found the intensity (and the NT-NF interaction) attractive, I also found the relations to be highly unstable. Several also showed sudden change of interests (sometimes at several points, sometimes of a somewhat cyclic nature almost). In the end I decided that while they are fun they are also often high-maintenance relationships to the point that it is almost undoable to keep them up at a stable level.

How can INTJs deal effectively with INFPs?

I only interact with INFPs when I care to expend a lot of energy in the interaction. These interchanges can be very worthwhile, but sometimes one or both parties at some point decide that they have seen the interesting bits and keeping the communication channel open is a lot of effort that they will not continue to spend.

What are the problem areas between INTJs and INFPs?

INTJs come across as very sure (if not arrogant) which can sometimes trigger the INFPs. The expected amount of empathy may at times approach infinity, which the INTJ cannot always make come true. The INTJ may pull back when unsure how to avoid disaster otherwise.

What makes INTJ-INFP interactions/relationships worth while?

Their intensity. The things INFPs care about.

it pays to soften your body language and verbal language

I would say I automatically tend to tone down interactions (both IRL and in text).

N became a good friend with my partner back a couple of years ago. N was 22 and seemed to have a strong "inner light" that radiated kindness. N was also a recovering Meth addict who had kicked her habit and pretty much became straight-edge because she did not want to have anything that led her back to her previous lifestyle. N was generally a good person, if very needy for attention. If she didn't have someone's attention--or rather most people's attention in the room, she would immediately call someone. I got to know N somewhat well for a period, seeing that she stayed with us for about 4 months as she found work(as a stripper) and then moved into her own place. N eventually moved away to be closer to her family, but I've gotten to see her again this past year when she came back to visit. At this time, I can tell that she has grown up a lot. She is not as needy as she once was, but still has an inner radiance and a wicked sense of humor.

K is also a young female INFP who've I just gotten to know recently. At first, I had a somewhat negative reaction towards her, due to the fact that she went out with a friend and appeared to have screwed him over. Overall, K has suffered from massive bouts of depression and self-loathing, but she finally appears to be pulling herself out of these. She has just found a great job doing what she went to school for(writing for a non-profit) and is beginning to have some self-confidence. If there is anything that truly annoys me about her, it is that she also wants to monopolize my attention and tends to fall into the trap of believing that the only interesting interaction with anyone else is to have a deep intellectual conversation where you show off how intellectual you are. Such behavior gets on my nerves quite easily.

M is the third female INFP that I've met--and I've met her only recently. While she comes across as incredibly stable, grounded, and fun in person, in her online personality and writing, I get to see that she also has some serious internal issues and doubts. Interacting with her here has been quite fascinating, because she writes absolutely beautifully--in an almost poetic fashion even when writing prose. She describes her thought processes as very non-linear which makes it hard for her to express to others exactly how she perceives and solves the problems she needs to do for her job (works as an IT consultant.). She has travelled around the world and lived in numerous countries and has a lot of wisdom already at age 29. I like M a lot

Dealing effectively:

I've not really had that much of a problem interacting with the INFP's I've met at all. communicating with them online seems to have been especially effective, as I've found them more willing initially to open up in these forums than in person. Acting as a grounding stone for the Super-Charged Fi seems to work very well--especially since as INTJ's we also have some experience with Fi'ness--more personalized subjective standards/values--even if it isn't as prominent.

Problem Areas:We can be "overly harsh" at times--even though we are not intentionally being so... presenting logical conclusions in too direct a manner--i.e. without enough context/examples/analogies can push INFP's away.

Worthwhile stuff:i like the depth of the INFP's I've met.. as well as the fact that they are not nearly as push or demanding as the extroverted NF's that I know.

My experience seems to be the opposite of yours. One of the first adjectives I'd pick for INFPs would be "volatile", and one of the last would be "fragile". With the other NFs, the E or J often results in some sort of signal before they go totally psychotic. With the INFPs, things seem to fester in their imaginations, where they then go haywire. I also agree with risenphoenixkai's assessment of "emotionally toxic". While they tend to seem like very gracious and wonderful people upon casual contact, I have to tiptoe on eggshells if I have any prolonged exposure. Several otherwise-solid, reasonable people become stressed out and poisoned upon repeated contact with INFP volatility as well. Also, no matter how fragile they may seem to act, I think they're often more emotionally resilient than INTJs, as they seem to gravitate towards and feed off of negative emotions as much as positive ones (whether those emotions are their own or those of others).

> How can INTJs deal effectively with INFPs?

...from at least one arm's length, although I would prefer a ten-foot pole when possible. ;)

Also, no matter how fragile they may seem to act, I think they're often more emotionally resilient than INTJs, as they seem to gravitate towards and feed off of negative emotions as much as positive ones (whether those emotions are their own or those of others).

I knew (know) a male INFP who seemed to be exclusively interested in being involved with T J women with serious chronic illnesses. I wonder if he ever noted that pattern in his dating history. It seemed to me like he needed someone suffering to minister to, to be a nurse to. I don't know if that's generalizable or just a personal quirk of his, but your comment about INFPs being attracted to negative emotions reminded me of that, though it's in quite a different sense than the drama-mongering you were speaking of.

OK, a weird thing about me an INFPs: there have been a number of INFP women I have known who, I gather, decided they liked me.... but from my point of view, it was hard to tell whether they were just being professionally cordial or actually wanted to be friends.

I can think of three women -- two on my flist! -- who I always felt (feel?) like I'm getting mixed messages from. I encountered all three in volunteer or professional organizations, so with each I had lots of pleasant work-related interactions. They volunteered to work on projects under my leadership, and seemed pleased to work with me. ...and that was it. OK, great! I'm always pleased to have cordial collegial relations. I counted them among the many positive professional/volunteer contacts I have.

But in all three cases, I also got these faint, vague, impressions that they wanted to develop the relationship into a friendship. Like, seeming to want (indicated by hanging around when not necessary, body language, facial expression) to be in a social conversation, but... not contributing to it or holding up their end of it. Normally, when someone doesn't, er, talk back during a conversation, I expect that means they're bored and the conversation is done. But then they were throwing off "no, don't leave, don't terminate the conversation" vibes. When I asked them questions about themselves, I'd get these really short but not terse answers. F'rinstance, me: "So what have you been up to since I saw you last?" her: "Oh, nothing much. Just hanging out I guess," smile and shrug. So the body and face are saying, "Isn't this a nice conversation we're having?" and the words are saying, "I am shutting this line of conversation down."

Ooooo-kay.

Similarly, when I ran an optional project, they'd opt in. They seemed enthusiastic to work with me. Sometimes, they seemed enthusiastic even when I couldn't quite see what they were getting out of the project, which made me wonder if they were hanging out on my account or the account of someone else on the team. And when I invited people along to do something social, they might take me up on it.

But they never invited me to anything. Or even initiated contact with me. I figure the way to tell if someone wants to be your friend is that they demonstrate sufficient enthusiasm for being with you as to ask to have more opportunities to be with you. Since they didn't, I figured they just enjoyed the projects we were working on; or at least it wasn't me they were interested in. But then, they'd act so glad to see me.

Ooooooo-kay.

I have a lot of friends. I don't actually need more. If someone is going to send mixed messages like that, I generally can't be bothered to invest more in the relationship.

Not sure what's going on there. *shrug*

In any event, they seemed perfectly nice, and much more stable and mature and thoughtful than the emotionally toxic sorts alluded to by others. But we just weren't connecting on anything other than a professional level.

"But they never invited me to anything. Or even initiated contact with me. I figure the way to tell if someone wants to be your friend is that they demonstrate sufficient enthusiasm for being with you as to ask to have more opportunities to be with you. Since they didn't, I figured they just enjoyed the projects we were working on; or at least it wasn't me they were interested in. But then, they'd act so glad to see me."

I managed to work that one out with my INFP. I sat her down and explained that when she didn't (ever) initiate contact with me it hurt me and it made me feel uncared for. I also explained that I found the job of always initiating draining and that this threatened our friendship. This upset her and possibly paniced her a bit, reassured me that she cared for me (this didn't actually reassure me but *shrug*), and finally asked what she was suppoesed to do. I had a nifty timeline ready for that. I explained to her that if she initiated contact with me on approximately this schedule it would make me feel cared for. After this conversation I left her alone to see what she would do. She has stuck to the schedule (more or less) ever since.

Obviously this method works best with someone whom you already have a relationship or want to have a relationship with. Otherwise it is a lot of work for questionable return.

I'd also like to note that while she did it she didn't really get it until recently when she started interacting with a notoriously unreliable ENFP who regularily forgets to start, continue, and/or complete social interactions. She came back to me after riding that roller-coaster for a bit and apologized by stating that she now understood why I had been upset by being ignored.

Wow, this feels all too familiar. As an INTJ, I will say that we can't/don't express ourselves all too well. He probably found out something about you that he thought you were concealing from him-- something that he thought was big and he didn't like. We see the world in black and white sometimes, and if we can't win, we prefer a lose-lose situation. :-/ I'm guessing you wanted either a win-win or a stalemate; I know I don't like those outcomes.

The only solution is a mutual friend... someone who can draw out what's really bothering him.

I have a friend who's an INFP, and I've got to agree about the sensitivity issue. This friend of mine enjoys imputing dishonourable intentions to every single gesture of mine. If I smile inwardly at something amusing, he would ask, "Why are you smirking?" and assume that my smile was maliciously intended.

This INFP friend of mine also tends to have difficulty expressing his complicated thoughts and emotions. He tends to communicate in a convoluted manner, which can make me (an INTJ) extremely impatient. As he is especially prone to "drifting away" - or at least appear to do so - when I am speaking to him.

Finally, INFPs are a bit too emotion-focused for an INTJ like me to stomach. My INFP friend constantly chides me for being "too logical", "inhuman", etc, whereas I think he is too idealistic and irrational at times.

Hi. I am an INFP and I can attest that with my type of personality it is like every single action and gesture anyone does seems to be put under the microscope of my mind and i am constantly "judging" people's intentions as being dark/evil, which I know is horrible of me. If it makes people feel any better, we infp's are just as judgemental about our own actions/thoughts. I think we are draining to others because we are so sensitive, but we are so draining to ourselves because we happy this huge, almost supernatural type of empathic ability to feel other people's emotions. We definitely are way too sensitive. We have good qualities too but I hate to admit it but we can be a drag. However, with that said, we really do want to be "good" people and can be very kind but it is true that we want to be perfect so we hold in a lot of negative feelings and can be extremely caustic/toxic when something triggers the feelings to come out. But in defense of us, we do surpress a lot of anger on a daily basis, so we are really cool people to be around on a daily basis but our downside is when we snap we are totally illogical :-) Anyways, after reading all the posts by INTJ people, I find your type to be really neat. It is true, if you want to have a close relationship to INFP's we take everything so personal and are very insecure about ourselves so we do need things said in a softer, walking on eggshells type of way. Sorry to go on and on. I really liked reading your posts and just had to admit you guys are right about a lot of the INFP stuff. As one, I can really relate to what you all said.

chinawhite on May 25th, 2007 12:33 pm (UTC)From the perspective of another INFP

I'm an INFP, and since I grew up with an aloof INTJ father (we call him The Harv-bot) and hysterical ESFP mother and sister, I can completely appreciate everything that INTJs go through when they try to understand what goes through the mind of an FP. Especially the quieter ones who prefer hiding behind half-truths and mind games. My mom and sister nearly drove me insane. To me, my dad was the only stable one in the house. We're both quiet, somewhat intelligent, and we both rely on sarcasm, so we have this distanced respect for each other. Being an INFP, of course I'd love it if he would someday tell me that he's proud of me, maybe smile at me, I don't know...show me that I'm more than "the daughter least likely to dishonor the family name".

I recently moved to Japan, and here I've befriended a German INTJ guy at work. When he first camehere, whenever anyone would try to explain something to him, he'd interrupt with "Yes I understand". I could see that other people were intimidated by him, so after a while, my NF mothering instincts kicked in and I started working really hard to reach out to him and...well...I want to justify it with "show him the convenience of being friendly", but maybe I mean "turn him into my idea of what's best for him". Eventually, I earned his trust. We could exchange witty remarks every once in a while. Next, we got to the point where we could tease each other, but I can take it much better than he can. Obviously, I make more mistakes than he does, thus he teases me often. When he'd make a mistake, I used to jump on the opportunity to tease him back. However, he'd get REALLY defensive and say some harsh things. It really hurt sometimes, and I've sent him an email or two explaining that I knew that I'd provoked him, and I was sorry for offending him, but would he please try to understand that I respect him so much that his harsh words feel like daggers. So he thinks I'm crazy. But he respects my ability to understand people. He asks me for help when he meets someone he doesn't understand. It is the first time an INTJ has seemed to genuinely appreciate me, and maybe even depend on me. INFPs LOVE to be needed. We love to protect, we love to worship, and we love to nurture. He's younger than me, but in our friendship, he is clearly the dominant one, and I take a much more passive role. He's never seemed to be bothered by it, but I can definitely see how an introvert would feel stressed out by the situation.

In general, I lack strong opinions, although I have values of steel, so honestly I'm willing to do whatever makes the other person happy. If I like a person enough to want to spend my free time with him, chances are that I've placed him up on Mt. Olympus and I am willing to make any sacrifice to him in exchange for his blessing. It's ridiculous, but I really do transform people into the gods of my world. And nothing scares me more than the possiblity of losing their favor. My world would come crashing down. So while I consider myself flexible and always available when they need me, my introverted friends probably see me as passive and uninterested. I feel kind of like a self-proclaimed martyr who believes that she's being burned at the stake, but in reality she's a disshevelled crazy lady who's just set fire to the bridge on which she's standing. It's a revolting, pathetic image.

So in conclusion, I'm an INFP who deeply respects most INTJs, although they terrify me on a personal level. You guys seem to want to improve the world, just like I do, only you can do it in a concrete, logical fashion, while all I can do is write prose and get myself worked up. I hope that INFPs and the other irrational/idealistic types can do something you find useful, even if we don't make much sense. Chances are we really look up to you :)

I'm so sorry that this turned into such a long essay. I'm not efficient with words. I hope I have been somewhat effective with them.

friedzombie on August 25th, 2009 09:26 pm (UTC)Re: From the perspective of another INFP

are you kidding? that was great! I'm an INTJ (my ex is INFP :/), and I wish she was as open as you are with this post in writing to me it makes perfect sense, its only realizing this in the situation thats the hard part. I drive her Insane and she does the same to me to the point where the you don't know if the glass is half empty full or if there even is a glass anymore (use analogies too much)

Uh, I've been posting late replies all over the place.INFP (somewhat INTP)

So... I'm not surprised INFP interactions with INTJ can cause a heck of a lot of problems. INFPs are really good for self-destructing on their own if they're unstable already. I'm a lot better myself now, and I think I surprise people when they see my personal troubles online, because it's really not that visible.

Maybe a good way to describe it is that the INFP world is it's own ecosphere, and taking care of and improving it is their primary concern. Sometimes it's a holographic representation of the outside world, but sometimes it's totally not.

Perhaps it's because of this that if the ecosphere is not in good shape, it will distort and warp its image of the outside world. When that happens I describe it as not being able to "hear" or "see" anything else beyond myself.

To me, INTJs feel like their own world is their workspace and all their (mental) tools are at their disposal. For INTPs, the lifelong work to build the perfect structure. Maybe for INFPs, the lifelong struggle to grow the perfect bonsai.

In some ways, I wonder if INFPs are the ones most likely to handle major mental damage. In that sense I would say resilience seems to be true. But other than that, it looks and feels like a precarious balancing act.

I suppose this doesn't quite fit the topic, but I thought it was a good thought.

I'm an INFP and I am very, very sensitive. And I guess I fall into most of the other INFP stereotypes as well.

But I don't have any trouble with having a conversation (as long as the person approaches me first) and when someone asks me what I've been up to I always have something really odd to tell them (like "oh I've been learning about Mike the Headless Chicken and researching schizophrenia" instead of "you wouldn't care"). I've found that people appreciate that they never know what I'm going to say and actually look forward to talking with me. When someone is nice to me and seems genuinely interested in what I am saying I have no problem opening up and can literally talk for hours without either of us getting bored.

I agree, that when someone asks me what I am up to and I really believe they are interested (that is the hard part, because a lot of times I assume people only are trying to be nice and don't really care) then I shock them with all the interesting things I ramble off. But then what happens with me, when I do reveal a lot of my deep inner world to people I fear I have said too much and I have freaked them out with my "weirdness" - if there really is a list by google of everything we have ever googled, then my list is definitely one of the longer, stranger ones :-) I am very impulsive in what I reveal about myself. It is a strange contradiction because on one hand I am so extremely introverted and shy and yet when I do say something, a lot of times it is so deep and revealing that I think it kind of freaks people out because they are not expecting it. I guess that saying "still waters run deep" is true about infp's. I so agree with you that when I "sense" that people are genuinely intersted in what I have to say, I am extremely happy and could talk for hours because there is so much inside of me that I feel like I want to let others know about the things i have learned. I guess i sound kind of arrogant, like i want the world to be able to benefit from my "deep" studies. wow, i am arrogant, oh no....now i wil be obsessing about my arrogance for the next few hours :-)

I'm an INFP-- very laid-back, kind of hovering in a dream world most of the time, enjoy being alone, and pretty quiet. My friends are sort of used to my quietness, but sometimes they'll go, "Stephanie, why are you so quiet??" And I feel bad because I never intend to make people feel uncomfortable.

So I guess INTJ's and other personality types should remember that most INFP's have no ill-intent; we may seem distant and remote, but we just have so much crap going on inside our heads and it's really, really hard for us to multitask (at least for me, anyway). Honestly, I have no hostile thoughts toward anyone unless they outright insult me or something.

Plus, the only thing that really bores me is trivial small talk. INFP's are probably aware that our quietness makes others uncomfortable; I feel like taping a sign to my chest that says, "The quietness is fine, I'm not bored or upset, this is my natural state, but if you want to talk it won't bother me whatsoever, stop stressing or I'll start stressing."

Just relax and be yourself, and let the INFP be the INFP. Don't try to please, criticize or change them. It's a ton easier, trust me.

I find the intj perspective on infp interesting. But it is only one of many (to those who would say the intj isn't sensitive, ask how they feel about that statement).

Personally, I have not developed a close relationship to an intj, except one, who I can only say is intj because he has taken numerous MBTI tests to confirm it. This is important to clarify, because a lot of people think they are really good at typing people, but are often mistaken.

When I say I have not developed a close relationship with those I perceive to be intjs, that can mean a couple things--it could certainly reflect something going on with me. It could be because of miscommunication due to the blind spots of me and the intj.

But that seems to be a common theme in this discussion--infps and intjs are not good at interacting with each other. This is clearly seen by the posts of intjs like siderea and night princess, who have detailed lists as to why they perceive infps as neurotic. Perhaps this perception is not just the infp, but the intj projecting their shadow.

I have a good number of friends who would not say the same things about infps as I have seen on this thread. This is obviously because they are not intjs, and I would not expect an intj to relate to me in same way that an infj friend would. Perhaps this is why I have many infj friends--we understand each other. With intjs, I do not try to invade their space, and I respect their way of being. But, as we can clearly see by how intjs understand infps on this thread, their is not a mutually understanding between the two. That's probably why I only have one relationship with an intj, but in other types have many more.

What it comes down to is, you can analyze the infp all you want, but I dare say nothing will change because of it. The intj-infp dynamic just seems like it can only go so far before faltering.

My advice to intjs who have had bad experiences with infps: stop dating them and having expectations in any sort of relationship with them. Hopefully, the infp will do the same.