Tf Rant

so i always thought, as most of us do, that g1 is by far the best. but i always thought it was because i was a kid and everything ruled. rose colored glasses and all that.

but there is something about that original that really worked. i just dont understand why cant we have a series more like the original. why do we always have to have gimmicky pokemon stuff like minicons, cyber keys, etc now? cant "robot to car" be gimmicky enough? why cant we have a series with similar characters and situations as teh original. take a look at the classics line and use designs like those. or maybe a series about the autobots still on a decepticon controlled cybertron during the war. kind of a starwars rebellion thing. and i know g1 had some spotty animation but did anyone see armada, GOOD GOD! i really liked the beastwars full on 3d, why cant we get back to that.

recently my nephew, who is 4, started getting into the playschool transformers and i gave him some of my old, broken beast and g2 tf to play with. he loves tf and wanted to watch some of the shows. i showed him cybertron one day, he wasnt into it. he sorta likes beastwars, but mainly because he likes animals. but he LOVES g1, he doesnt own a single figure and the show is over 20 years old and it locks him in completly. there is definitely something to be said about the "magic" of the original.

The reason that the newer cartoons are very gimmicky is because they were made in Japan, for a Japanese audience, and on a low budget. Therefore, it appears to be the lowest rung on the anime cliche ladder. BW and G1, being written by Americans/Canadians, have a noticably different style to them. The next series is supposed to be back in the hands of North America, so there's a good chance that it'll be what you're hoping for.

Because kids like cookie-cutter anime shows these days and cookie-cutter anime shows often have power-ups it's just how they roll.
Alternatively another theory is Hasbro likes nay loves making money thus they yield to the will of the children so the Kids will whine to their parents until they're so broken they'll buy toys to appease the beasts, like Britain used money to appease the Nazi war machine and in a similar way the brats will simply become so evil and greedy (and for that matter dumb) no amount of appeasement will stop them from becoming the next generation of destructive youth... What? You know it's true.

It's presumptuous to immediately assume all fans think the same thing that you do that G1 is far and away the best. We're at a point where we acknowledge that since it was what we grew up with, G1 is always going to be special. But quality wise for TV show and toys, Beast Wars is regarded as the superior product. Even then it's a matter of taste, I have friends who swear by the Unicron Trilogy, another that loves Beast Machines. The fandom is too diverse to make such an ill-thought remark.

Second. Transformers have been using gimmicks since their second year. Combiners and triple changers. Those gimmicks went into year 3 when futuristic vehicles were introduced and became the norm, and combiners went on through the -masters phase right into Pretenders. Everything after the first year and a half, gimmick. Is it gimmick enough to go from vehicle to robot? No. Not anymore, not when so many other toy companies are getting in on the robot/vehicle style of toy. And not when the toy market thrives on all the little tricks toys can do, kids like collecting things which is where Minicons, energon stars, and planet keys come into play. Despite what some collectors think, toys are still predominantly bought by children and thus must be marketed to them, otherwise, guess what, collectors don't buy enough to make a series profitable, meaning the series stops.

Third. Of course a 4 year old is going to like the G1 series the most, it's the easiest to understand, less visuals to take in, no cheesy references added by poor dubbing companies, that's the benefit of American-created series. As stated before, the new series produced in America should be more in line with that, but there's no magic to G1 just because it appeals to a 4 year old more than the modern series, it was made for young audiences without going through poor translation.

Finally. If you don't like Bay for his previous work, fine. If you don't like the Megatron that was designed for the movie, fine. But condemning a movie before you have the slightest idea of what the final product is would be like condemning a new burger at your favorite take-out place without even knowing what's on it. You have to give everything a chance to know if you like it or not, otherwise you don't have any base for complaints, essentially making them pointless.

I always find it weird when people complain about the new lines being "gimmicky" compared to G1. G1 had more gimmicks than every subsequent line combined. Combiners, triple changers, Head/Target/Power/Micro/Actionmasters, clones, jumpchangers, sparking Transformers, Pretenders, motorized Transformers, Transformers that can store smaller Transformers, dinosaur Transformers, insect Transformers, monster Transformers, etc. And this isn't just the later, post-movie stuff, we were getting these as soon as '85. "Robot to car" as Transformers' only gimmick only lasted for one year: 1984.

Well, switch the word "most" in the first sentence for "some" or "many", and then there's little problem. (in theory )

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No... I think it IS "most".

At least in terms of "most" simply meaning "majority". I'm not sure how the demographics break down for this forum, and all forums, but I suspect G1 is the most beloved of TF properties, particularly in the broader sense (including casual fans and those who don't frequent internet forums like we geeks do.

I have no facts. Just a theory. But until a global survey is taken, that makes my opinion as valid as anyone else here, right?

Part of this is probably just because a lot of people simply stopped caring long before the other TF series came around, so for them, G1 IS Transformers... it's the last thing they knew. I'm not going to go to lengths to convince people that G1 was the best... I know it's not true. I was just watching some episodes today, and for every thing that impressed me, there was something I winced at. Still love it though.

I think the setting is a big part of G1's primal appeal. True, there were gimmicks that came on in the form of new characters and such, but not nearly to the same extent that gimmicks and power-ups are used in the newer shows. Not even close. The degree to which the Japanese shows have accelerated and perfected the art of 30-minute toy commercials makes the old G1 cartoon look downright quaint.

But the setting... simple, self-contained stories, comic book pacing... Good guys. Bad guys. Earth. Present day. Familiar vehicles and locales mainly. Big cast of characters to work with. There is something about that setting that is very easy to relate to, and it's for this reason I think that the Dreamworks movie took it's major cues from G1.

When I was a kid, I drifted away from Transformers in the 3rd season... I suspect this is the case for many others. Besides the new cast of largely unappealing characters after the movie, and declining animation quality, one of the reasons was the shift to a "grand space opera" setting.

I felt that there were still so many stories to be told with the old cast, on modern-day earth. Why would they want to fast forward to this Flash-Gordon futurism? I realize that there are many fans of this genre, but I think the earth-bound G1 setting was something that held a broader appeal.

I think this is part of the reason that G1 has an enduring charm... though I freely admit that nostalgia and retro-chic also plays a big part in all of that.

I always find it weird when people complain about the new lines being "gimmicky" compared to G1. G1 had more gimmicks than every subsequent line combined. Combiners, triple changers, Head/Target/Power/Micro/Actionmasters, clones, jumpchangers, sparking Transformers, Pretenders, motorized Transformers, Transformers that can store smaller Transformers, dinosaur Transformers, insect Transformers, monster Transformers, etc. And this isn't just the later, post-movie stuff, we were getting these as soon as '85. "Robot to car" as Transformers' only gimmick only lasted for one year: 1984.

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Yes... gimmicks all around, no doubt about it. But how many of these gimmicks became major selling points that were emphasized and synchronized with the TV show? Not so many. Pre-movie, all they really did was introduce the new characters, and the biggest gimmick was "more combiners".

Compared to the fetishization of the toys and the action features on shows like Cybertron/GF, that was nothing.

I and many of my friends are biased towards G1 because that's what we grew up reading and watching. Plus the old series brings back fond childhood memories but I kind of shy away from pidgeon holing g1 as the absolute perfect storyline , even though it's the one I personally prefer. I like the g1 storyline because it and to some degree BW seems the most adult in the telling (perhaps bw more so). I also admit there are a huge amount of holes in the old toon story but I still have my rose colored glasses on. Back in the day gimmicks use to seem special and not common place but nowadays everyone can combine and has some neat trick. I guess I'm looking at the new stuff through older eyes and not the eyes of a child. As for adult collectors it's all a matter of choice and what you are willing to spend your hard earned money on.

Omegus Prime
Finally. If you don't like Bay for his previous work said:

all i said was screw michael bay and his megatron design. i didnt condemn the movie, im actually one of the mindless drones who will probably see it opening day. i only condemned bay and the design, which you said is ok.

At least in terms of "most" simply meaning "majority". I'm not sure how the demographics break down for this forum, and all forums, but I suspect G1 is the most beloved of TF properties, particularly in the broader sense (including casual fans and those who don't frequent internet forums like we geeks do.

I have no facts. Just a theory. But until a global survey is taken, that makes my opinion as valid as anyone else here, right?

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The point others have made on this is the difference between stating opinion and presenting an assumption or opinion as fact. It could easily be correct, but until there is proof, one could just as easily say Cybertron is most people's favorite form of Transformers, correct or not.