This may be the stupidest thing I ever posted but...I've never heard Harrelson go after a manager the way he has Manuel over the last couple of days. And we've had some bad managers over the years.

This kind of reminds me of when Hawk decided he would like to be GM, and aggressively went after the job.

Another thread points out that Hawk has been kissing Williams butt, and he's always been somewhat of a Reinsdorf yes man.

Is it possible Hawk wants the manager job for the next month?

voodoochile

08-29-2003, 09:23 PM

Originally posted by doogiec
This may be the stupidest thing I ever posted but...I've never heard Harrelson go after a manager the way he has Manuel over the last couple of days. And we've had some bad managers over the years.

This kind of reminds me of when Hawk decided he would like to be GM, and aggressively went after the job.

Another thread points out that Hawk has been kissing Williams butt, and he's always been somewhat of a Reinsdorf yes man.

Is it possible Hawk wants the manager job for the next month?

I don't see them firing Manuel at this point in the season. It would be really really weird and (almost?) unheard of.

I think what we are seeing with Hawks recent comments supporting KW while ripping JM is a resolution of the power struggle from this spring. JR now sides with KW and JM is on his way out, just not immediately...

FJA

08-29-2003, 09:24 PM

Originally posted by doogiec
This may be the stupidest thing I ever posted but...I've never heard Harrelson go after a manager the way he has Manuel over the last couple of days. And we've had some bad managers over the years.

This kind of reminds me of when Hawk decided he would like to be GM, and aggressively went after the job.

Another thread points out that Hawk has been kissing Williams butt, and he's always been somewhat of a Reinsdorf yes man.

Is it possible Hawk wants the manager job for the next month?

I don't think Hawk wants to be manager, but even with certain comments about Joe Torre, and what certain managers can and can't do, I sensed a frustration with Manuel. He was explicit with his frustration in this whole Cotts/Buehrle thing.

Then again, it seems like Hawk has Buehrle's back like Farmer has Garland's, so it might just be that too.

PaleHoseGeorge

08-29-2003, 09:25 PM

I have never heard anything to suggest Hawk wants any job in baseball operations with the Sox--least of all manager.

If Hawk is ripping on Jerry Manuel, it's probably because he has carte blanche from Jerry Reinsdorf to do so. The chairman does not like dissent of opinion in his organ-eye-zation, and Hawk is the ultimate spokesman.

If Hawk is ripping on Jerry Manuel, it is very, very bad news for Jerry Manuel.

:reinsy
"Go ahead, Hawk. Let 'em have it."

soxrme

08-29-2003, 09:40 PM

I believe he is just as frustrated as the rest of us with JM

TornLabrum

08-29-2003, 09:52 PM

Originally posted by soxrme
I believe he is just as frustrated as the rest of us with JM

I happened to flip to AM during a commercial break on Steve Dahl's show when Hawk was on.

When asked by North about his on-air comments yesterday, he said, "What's done is done and we have to move on."

However when he was asked about other managers he was extremely effusive with his praise of Tony Pena. Since KC is leading us by percentage points, I'd say that speaks volumes.

Dan H

08-29-2003, 09:53 PM

Though I liked him speaking out on Manuel, I don't care what Hawk is up to. I know he's paid to be a homer, but he goes too far. He said on the Score that no one's better than the Sox. I'd like to believe that. Yet, the last time I looked New York, Oakland, Seattle and Boston had better records than the Sox. The man sometimes just doesn't have any credibility. If the Sox are as good as the Hawkeroo says, they need to win the next two games against the Tigers. No excuse for losing a series to Detroit. These are the teams you have to beat especially a team that will lose well over 100 this season.

TornLabrum

08-29-2003, 09:57 PM

Originally posted by Dan H
Though I liked him speaking out on Manuel, I don't care what Hawk is up to. I know he's paid to be a homer, but he goes too far. He said on the Score that no one's better than the Sox. I'd like to believe that. Yet, the last time I looked New York, Oakland, Seattle and Boston had better records than the Sox. The man sometimes just doesn't have any credibility. If the Sox are as good as the Hawkeroo says, they need to win the next two games against the Tigers. No excuse for losing a series to Detroit. These are the teams you have to beat especially a team that will lose well over 100 this season.

I'd say that's another not-so-subtle slap at Manuel. Read between the lines. He's saying that this club is better than it's playing. He also said the Sox MVP is Kenny Williams. He noted that the Sox each spring since Williams has been GM have been a better team than the season before (noting the injuries in 2001 as the joker in that deck). What is the one constant that has kept the Sox a .500 club?

It doesn't take a genius to figure out where Hawk was going with his thoughts.

soxtalker

08-29-2003, 09:57 PM

I haven't seen Hawk make these comments, so my impressions are all second hand. Having said that, this is very interesting. I can't see Hawk wanting to get back into operations. He's been there and done it.

What posters have been saying about Hawk seems to be quite different from what I hear on the radio. The radio announcers appear to bounce back and forth between being a little critical of Manuel and defending him a bit. I've interpreted that to mean that they are being very careful to avoid criticism, but that they are frustrated also. Hawk may simply have more leeway, or, as others have suggested, he may be signaling what JR thinks.

TheRockinMT

08-29-2003, 10:18 PM

If the Hawk wants to be the manager or GM (again) my vote would be NO! He couldn't handle the GM job before and I don't see him as managerial material at all. As a broadcaster he may be fine, but please no more mistakes on the part of the Sox front office. Making the Hawk the manager or GM would be a mistake. I am not happy about Manuel and his moves either, but my guess is he stays at least through this year. The pitching rotation decision where he went with Cotts over Buerhle still bugs me. Cotts got bombed and with the extra day off so did Buerhle and the worse thing about it was the fact it was the Tigers who beat him. Manuel is not a good handler of pitchers and that's what we need is someone who can handle the pitching staff.

VeeckAsInWreck

08-29-2003, 11:55 PM

bring back Al Lopez!!!!!!!!!

Acid

08-30-2003, 12:12 AM

No way will they fire Jerry at this point of the season. Next year will bring us a new skipper but untill then we are stuck with "The Tinkerer" Can our boys in black beat the other team and there own manager?

pudge

08-30-2003, 01:23 AM

Do you guys remember how PO'ed Hawk was when we didn't pitch around Palmeiro in Texas? I have never heard Hawk get that critical. I can only imagine what he was saying about the New York fiasco. Hawk is a big-time homer, so the fact that he is ripping into our manager speaks volumes.

kermittheefrog

08-30-2003, 02:36 AM

Originally posted by voodoochile
I don't see them firing Manuel at this point in the season. It would be really really weird and (almost?) unheard of.

Funny you should say that. Don't you remember last season when the other Sox created a stir about this time of year by replacing Jimy Williams?

inta

08-30-2003, 05:11 AM

Originally posted by pudge
Do you guys remember how PO'ed Hawk was when we didn't pitch around Palmeiro in Texas? I have never heard Hawk get that critical. I can only imagine what he was saying about the New York fiasco. Hawk is a big-time homer, so the fact that he is ripping into our manager speaks volumes.

yeah i remember that.
the worst i ever saw hawk at was when garland got kicked out of that game for plunking the guy from the twins. he was yelling "that is BS! that is BS!"

i'm not even sure if you're allowed to say BS on the air...

voodoochile

08-30-2003, 10:43 AM

Originally posted by kermittheefrog
Funny you should say that. Don't you remember last season when the other Sox created a stir about this time of year by replacing Jimy Williams?

Yes, but they didn't make the playoffs anyway. What was the record under the new manager.

TheRockinMT

08-30-2003, 10:48 AM

Originally posted by VeeckAsInWreck
bring back Al Lopez!!!!!!!!!

That's my vote. Step back into the past to find our manager of the future. Lopez is the one who took a hittless wonder team and knew pitching. He always kept the Sox in contention. Is there a Lopez clone out there?

Lip Man 1

08-30-2003, 12:23 PM

You should have heard Hawk in July 83 when umpire Greg Kosc overruled his partner and took a home run away from Fisk saying a fan reached over the wall in left field to catch the ball that he hit. Replays showed that was not the case.

Hawk absolutely trashed him on the air and set up a feud that Kosc held against the Sox for many years.

The Sox wound up losing to Scott McGregor 2-1.

Lip

LASOXFAN

08-30-2003, 12:30 PM

Don't confuse opinionated with intelligent

Brian26

08-30-2003, 12:41 PM

Originally posted by Lip Man 1
You should have heard Hawk in July 83 when umpire Greg Kosc overruled his partner and took a home run away from Fisk saying a fan reached over the wall in left field to catch the ball that he hit. Replays showed that was not the case.

Hawk absolutely trashed him on the air and set up a feud that Kosc held against the Sox for many years.

The Sox wound up losing to Scott McGregor 2-1.

Lip

The Baltimore game, right? Right after they made the call, didn't LaRussa run out of the dugout, go berzerk, and pull thirdbase out of the ground and toss it away? I remember reading in "Who's On Third" that the fan who caught the ball called Peirsall's post-game show on WMAQ to tell his side of the story.

I always thought it was Kosc that originally called it a homer but was overturned by Jim Evans and Ted Hendry. Could be wrong though.

Also, was Dotson the pitcher in this game? At Soxfest he mentioned he lost two games to the Orioles in '83 by just two runs and a few hits. I know the first one was the 1-hitter he threw in Baltimore and lost on Disco Dan Ford's homer into the right field porch. Was this the second one?

WinningUgly!

08-30-2003, 05:28 PM

Originally posted by voodoochile
Yes, but they didn't make the playoffs anyway. What was the record under the new manager.

Jimy Williams got fired on August 16th, 2001, with a 65-53 record (.551). The BoSox were 5 1/2 games behind the Yankees in the AL East at the time...2 1/2 behind Oakland for the wildcard. Joe Kerrigan took over for the final 43 games & led Boston down the tubes with a 17-26 record(.395) the rest of the way. The final 34 games featured a 6-23 stretch, followed by a meaningless 5 game Red Sox winning streak in their last 5 games of the season.

Lip Man 1

08-30-2003, 08:50 PM

Brian:

You are correct on the fan called Jimmy after the game, he was pretty pissed at being singled out for something that he didn't do. (The reply showed that his hands were right above the yellow line at the top of the wall.)

The Sox pitcher that day was Dotson who got the complete game loss.

And Kosc was the crew chief which is why he had the final call on the play. Kosc was the home plate umpire which is why the Sox were really pissed... he was farther away from the play then the 3rd base ump who originally gave the home run single.

Lip

doogiec

08-30-2003, 09:33 PM

As I recall, the fan who caught the ball was actually in the second row of the outfield seats, and leaned over the first row to catch it. He was a good 5 feet over the wall.

tacosalbarojas

08-31-2003, 09:38 PM

If Hawk is ripping on Jerry Manuel, it is very, very bad news for Jerry Manuel.

It is very, very bad news for JM indeed, Grim Reaper stylee. Heard this brilliant repartee on Thursday between DJ and Hawk. To paraphrase Hawk, "I have seen almost every game Hawk has ever broadcast..." and I've never heard him go after a SOX player or manager so boldly as he did on Thursday. Just rewind that whole first inning. There was no reading between the lines to be done, that was scathing black and white pointed criticism.

faneidde

08-31-2003, 11:11 PM

Originally posted by tacosalbarojas
It is very, very bad news for JM indeed, Grim Reaper stylee. Heard this brilliant repartee on Thursday between DJ and Hawk. To paraphrase Hawk, "I have seen almost every game Hawk has ever broadcast..." and I've never heard him go after a SOX player or manager so boldly as he did on Thursday. Just rewind that whole first inning. There was no reading between the lines to be done, that was scathing black and white pointed criticism.
I didn't hear the first inning of the game. Could someone give me a quick paraphrase of what Hawk said. Also, how did DJ react?