help with 6 yr old

I am a mother of a 3 kids that in 3 months will be 7,4,2 yrs old. My oldest has had problems from day one. he had a rough birth. At the age of 18 months old he would reach down his diaper and play with himself till it was red a raw. He seemed not to have an attachment to me like most kids would. To summarize in the past 2 yrs he has been caught molesting his brother 2 time (in therapy he admitted to doing it more),he has a weird attachment to his sister saying she loves him because he is handsome and tries to hug her and touch her in weird ways.trying to sufficate his brother twice (never out of anger he said the thoughts just come into his brain). he has gotten sexual with me and my youngest (which is a girl.) He doesn't show remorse and seems to have to empathy when he does things that hurt people. he has drawn alot of pictures of killing animals and people (we never had cable and only watched PBS and Scooby doo) 2 months ago I put him in a school where he stays for a short time and gets alot of therapy because I was afraid for my other kids. They said he has antisocial personality disorder and have also seen no remorse for the things he has done. He had a real bad birth and his father has no emotions or empathy and I think both just made a bad combination. he has pretended to shoot me with a gun with a cold look on his face. I am scared to have him back home now. I feel guilty for wanting him to stay but scared what he will do to the kids. we have cameras installed in the house (which is how i caught him hurting his brother last time) but is that good enough. I don't want to keep my kid in and out of institutions but I will never forgive myself if he hurts one of my other kids again. I don't know what to do help

What country are you in? Is a Residential Treatment Center (RTC) possible now? Do you have insurance or state insurance? What kind of testing has been done? Have you taken him to a neuropsychologist or developmental pediatrician? Are you still married to his father? Is there any abuse in his history? You said his father has no emotions or empathy. Has his father abused him? He is really young to be diagnosis with antisocial personality disorder. I'm not saying he is or isn't just that he is very young.

He has enough problems that a parent isn't equipped to handle that an institution might be the best place for him. I'm so sorry I know its hard to hear that. My son at that age was also trying to kill his siblings. Putting him in an Residential Treatment Center (RTC) was the best thing I've ever done. His social learning exploded. He gained 2 years emotionally in the 1 year he was there and has continued to grow emotionally at a higher rate than before he went in. Just because he needs to go in now does not mean he will live there forever.

I'm so sorry you are going through this. I know the guilty feelings of not wanting a child to come home. You do need to keep your other kids safe.

I learned that just because difficult child 1 wasn't living with us didn't mean I wasn't his mother. I went to every staffing meeting, family therapy, every visit, called when I could, sent packages. I think the staff didn't really know what to do with a parent that involved. I still directed his care. They still asked me before they started or stopped medications. Kept me up to date on his therapy.

The other kids needed the time away from difficult child 1 too. They needed therapy and time to heal. difficult child 2 didn't want difficult child 1 to come home when difficult child 1 was ready to come home. They had to work on their relationship before difficult child 1 could come home.

Welcome to the board. You are not alone. I am so sorry you have to be here though.

Do you have any connections to county workers (oh, are you in the USA? or other country....several represented here but my perspective is usa....)? Anyway, in our area case managers can help find funding and guide you in applying for ssi and also help find group homes. I know lady who had a son similar to yours and she tried at home, even hiring someone to live - in. yet, he was too hard to deal with, even at age 8. He moved into a group home that was really great. She felt so guilty at first but he thrived there. Gets to come home for family events when they want to but she was relieved.

I know I could be at that place at some point. I hope not, but it is a hard thing to face. With other kids, I dont see you have much of a choice, he needs more supervision and therapy. The risk is too great, right? For his protection as well as the others it makes sense that you are feeling he needs to live out of home in a therapeutic setting.

I am glad you found us. THere are others here who have kids with some similar issues. Was he in the hospital long? Does he have the same diagnosis as his bio father? I am truly sorry for you. Hope you check in often.

I live in the U.S.A and his therapist said he will probably end up in an institution. i have private insurance. My current husband has adopted my boys (they are from previous marriage i.e. the uncaring father). Their father didn't abuse them he just had no attachment toward them so I divorced him since it seemed to be worse for the boys. Last week we did an MRI and are waiting the results, I haven't gotten alot of help because everyone kept telling me he would grow out of it and he was too young to be that way. Lucky for me I fianlly got a Dr. to listen and after they put him in this temp school institution they saw the same things I did so help has come alot later than it should have. I know what's best for him but I just want to know what's happened with others. Most people talk of their teenagers or adult kids with these problems and it scares me of how he will be when he is a teenager. I am just scared of making the wrong choice and having him hate me forever

kiml, I have not been where you are so can't offer any personal experience. Liahona has given you some VERY good advice and a wonderful perspective. If YOU are afraid of your son, imagine what the other kids, especially your other son, feel. You need to protect them while helping the other. Doing what Liahona has said might be the best solution for all involved. I agree that it is hard to hear but him coming home now is not going to be good for any of you.

I'm glad you found our "family" but am ever so sorry you had to. You are doing the best you can with what you have. That is all anyone can ask or expect. Know that you aren't totally alone. There are others here where things have gotten worse before something was done. If you can head it off at the pass now, you're one step ahead.

{{{{(((HUGS)))}}}} to you and your family. This has to be so hard on ALL of you.

oh wow, you have really been through a lot. Too bad some did not listen,but thank heaven someone did. There are many here who never got thataccomplished! If you feel he is in a good residential treatment center/program or there are some around he could have a chance at a productive life. You may be in a position like I am, we can hope for what makes them happy in a setting that will keep them and others safe. But our revised parenting dream probably does not involve independent living, marriage, their own families, etc. I am truly ok with that now. I know he could hurt someone and end up in a situation he couldn't even predict if I dont arrange things for him to be in supervised work, living etc. Seems odd to dream for a good "institutional" type of life but there are such ranges of options, and both of our kids are young enough that until the therapy portion, and the brain development of their early years is mostly passed, we just wont know for sure.

What other types of issues does he have? Just curious, it helps others to share with you what it is like or m ight be like if they can relate a little more. Is he able to make school progress? Has he ever had friends? Does he have any sensitivities, does he seem hyperactive? Is he on medications?

It is lovely that your hub adopted the boys. Sorry your ex was not able to bond. Did he h ave a mental health diagnosis. or was he just functioning like that but otherwise doing fine in society? What is the rest of that family like?

(of course any questions you dont want to answer are fine, just trying to think of things I have heard here so others can say if they relate)...

I used to worry (ok I still worry, but try not to) about difficult child 1 as a teenager or an adult. Based on what he was like as a young child I would've thought he'd have successfully killed difficult child 2 by now and been locked up. Or molested a neighborhood kid. Or.... or... or.... the possibilities of worry are endless. I would've never imagined a world where I let difficult child 1 get a 1 year old out of his crib. But I've been asking difficult child 1 to do just that on a regular basis for the past few months. (This doesn't mean he doesn't have any problems anymore. In fact he has been escalating lately. He is still not at the point he was before he went into the Residential Treatment Center (RTC) though.) He might not be the same person as an adult or a teenager that he is as a child. If he gets the right help. His bio-dad wasn't abusive. Did bio-dad have these same problems as a child? Bio-dad family might not have told you if he did. Some families bury these kind of problems and don't tell.

I would cry and hold which ever my kids would let me rock them. I would cry. I was so scared of sending my baby to such a strange place where there were kids just like him. But I had to keep the other kids safe, and I just couldn't at home.

No, most people won't understand. My family was horrified. I'm crying right now. I hope you come to peace with what ever decision you come to. That is what matters. Not the other people.

my ex has no diagnosis just what i saw the 8 yrs we were together. My son is on intuniv (for impulse control). He also has diagnosis of ADHD and conduct disorder. He is very hyper in your face has to be center of attention to the point of acting out if you are not paying enough attention. He is never satisfied, there have been days I have spent the entire day with just me and him (trying to bond) and at the end of the day we go home and I start giving the other kids a bath and cleaning the kitchen and he hates me for it and doesn't care that I spent all day with him. If you buy him something he wants more if you let him break a rule (like eat in the living room while watching a movie as a family) he has to push it further (he will start jumping on the couch and acting out). Kind of like if you give him an inch he takes a mile. He is the type of kid that spending time with is miserable he is so mentally exhausting, he never stops.
My in-laws are the best people in the world and have moved in to help, I told them if he grew up without hurting more people I would be happy. I don't care if he graduates highschool or gets married I just don't want him to hurt anyone or himself. If he does that I have succeeded. As sad as that is that's my reality.

liahona my family doesn't want to face he is messed up either but my in-laws and husband are great. I cry almost everyday too. luckily i have 2 kids that are loving wonderful kids so I had to quit blaming myself. I hope you get the emtional support I finally got 2 yrs ago with my in-laws. If it weren't for them I don't know where i would be

Since I've lived with a dangerous child, I have only one bit of advice: He could seriously harm or sexually abuse your younger children. He should not be living in a family setting. Hopefully a residential center can help him and he can learn how to live with you one day, but right now he is a threat to your other children. Perhaps he has attachment disorder due to his chaotic early years...the child we adopted had it and these kids do not have a conscience. But it's not only adopted kids who have attachment disorder. It can happen if the child is not securely bonded as an infant and it is very difficult to treat let alone live with. Is he cruel to animals and fascinated by fire? Even if he isn't, perhaps he should go to a foster home with a couple who has no other young children. If you keep him at home, you will have to watch him 24/7...which really isn't possible. As soon as we found out that our adopted son had sexually acted out with our younger children, he was gone, but they had suffered three years of it before we figured it out...they were way too scared of him to tell us what he was doing.

What if your child DOES strangle and kill one of your other ones? What if he has actual sex with one of them? Both of these things are possible given his behavior. Our child only killed animals...haha. That's how he got caught because he was so good at acting like an angel to adults. But the dogs had died around him, when nobody else was there. Then all his deeds came tumbling out, but not until he was removed from the house. We were shocked. He was so good at hiding what he was doing and the other kids were sure he would set fire to the house and kill us all if they ever "tattled" on him so they didn't do it until we promised he'd never come back.

You have a two year old. The two year old is no match for him. The two year old has already been molested probably more than he's telling the therapist. My kids said two or three times at first and it turned out it had done it repeatedly for three years. Since he was older, he was tried in a court of law (not our idea...he was 13 at the time) and found guilty of sexual abuse of a minor (because daughter was more than six years younger than him). He is now a registered sex offender (although he doesn't always sign up). In residential he easily told his counselors that he'd been sexually acting out on other children since at least age five and it took until he was thirteen for anyone to know. Since he was in foster care, he abused many kids in his path and had no remorse about it. When asked why, he said, "I don't know."

Your daughter already has a very VERY strange almost sexual attachment to her brother. Please...save her.

i do have wonderful in-laws which i needed today after therapy. i told my husband i don't want him back. When i approached him about the pics of killing and burning people he said he had to draw bombs and fires because he couldn't draw allegators or sharks. I asked him if wanted to learn to draw animals and he said it's too hard to draw them eating people. I just cried everything has to do with knives, guns, bombs, or fire. I am too scared to wake up with him standing over me trying to kill me. The whole session he couldn't figure out that his thoughts were harmful and he kept saying just rip up the drawings and it's the drawings that are getting him in trouble. We couldn't get it through his head that it wasn't the drawings but what he had in his head. I am definitely not bringing him home anytime soon

I am sorry you are going through all this. It must be soooo hard. Know that we are here to help AND support you as much as you need us to. Take care of your other children and YOURSELF. You're doing the best you can with the hand you've been dealt.

difficult child 1 didn't know why at first either. With lots of therapy at the Residential Treatment Center (RTC) he started to get it. If he gets in the wrong mind set even now I have to remind him that he was at the Residential Treatment Center (RTC) because he was hurting people and I couldn't keep everyone safe. I've had to be very blunt and keep repeating the same thing over and over. I couldn't get sucked into the details of why or he'd argue with me and never get it. If I tried to use examples of how he wasn't safe it became all about that one incident when it wasn't about one incident.

Do you know where he is going? Have you toured it? Does he get to just stay at the school?

i do have wonderful in-laws which i needed today after therapy. i told my husband i don't want him back. When i approached him about the pics of killing and burning people he said he had to draw bombs and fires because he couldn't draw allegators or sharks. I asked him if wanted to learn to draw animals and he said it's too hard to draw them eating people. I just cried everything has to do with knives, guns, bombs, or fire. I am too scared to wake up with him standing over me trying to kill me. The whole session he couldn't figure out that his thoughts were harmful and he kept saying just rip up the drawings and it's the drawings that are getting him in trouble. We couldn't get it through his head that it wasn't the drawings but what he had in his head. I am definitely not bringing him home anytime soon

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Gosh, I'm so sorry. Did your husband understand? Surely he can't think it is a good idea to NOT get him as much help as possible?? My son really grasped the "thought bubble" kinds of words. (right now working on not having to say everything that is in his thought bubble). He understood early on about how we all have thoughts in our heads through this concept. Even at age 15 he will say things about what is in his thought bubble. Teachers right now are saying to him that what he says doesn't make sense in THEIR thought bubbles etc. He was able to start to learn about internal issues and feelings with these kinds of concepts but it sure is hard. He will still associate problems with whatever happened last. The original issue or problem takes longer to get at.

This must be a really painful and difficult time. You are doing the right thing for yourself and him. We are here for you!

difficult child 1 didn't know why at first either. With lots of therapy at the Residential Treatment Center (RTC) he started to get it. If he gets in the wrong mind set even now I have to remind him that he was at the Residential Treatment Center (RTC) because he was hurting people and I couldn't keep everyone safe. I've had to be very blunt and keep repeating the same thing over and over. I couldn't get sucked into the details of why or he'd argue with me and never get it. If I tried to use examples of how he wasn't safe it became all about that one incident when it wasn't about one incident.

Do you know where he is going? Have you toured it? Does he get to just stay at the school?

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he does argue and gets stuck on one incident also. It is a school with Dr. therapist, and psychologist where they live and go to school there. I am looking for a place after this because i think this place is more for kids that have behavior issues not so much psychological issues. They put in on abilify today for his anger outburst

also my husband get where i am coming from but he says don't make up my mind before we know everything. The MRI came back normal which now just confuses me more. If it's normal than what's wrong and what do I do now

Are you sure there is no abuse history? Those are very unusual behaviors for a child with no trauma or disrupted attachments. What type of therapy is he in? Can you get in home services? Antisocial pd cannot be diagnosed until age 18, are there any other diagnosis?
Hugs to you. I am so sorry you are going through this.

Are you sure there is no abuse history? Those are very unusual behaviors for a child with no trauma or disrupted attachments. What type of therapy is he in? Can you get in home services? Antisocial pd cannot be diagnosed until age 18, are there any other diagnosis?
Hugs to you. I am so sorry you are going through this.

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there hasn't been any abuse, trust me that was the first thing I thought. I haven't talked about home services because right now i am too scared to bring him home. His MRI came back normal so I don't know what test is next because there is something wrong unless he was just born bad. I do think the empathy problem is genetic because his father never knew how to put himself in someone elses shoes and couldn't seem to understand others emotions.