since bitmain opened the last batch it hasnt sold out... either they have increased production by a lot, or there is some backroom information that the big companies arent buying any letting the small ones take the hit, considering there are news about smaller chips and samsung coming to the game and a lot of people with big farms selling all their S9's; brings me some fear (since i got a order open for march) that they are either coming with a new miner or some other big news is coming out, anyone else with these thoughts ?

I have 2 of them. They both lost a board. One within 3 days, the other after about 7 months. They do run quieter than any antminer since the S3. It's not unnoticeable but it kinda blends in to the background. Makes for a decent space heater. So unless you just want a space heater, I would steer clear.

since bitmain opened the last batch it hasnt sold out... either they have increased production by a lot, or there is some backroom information that the big companies arent buying any letting the small ones take the hit, considering there are news about smaller chips and samsung coming to the game and a lot of people with big farms selling all their S9's; brings me some fear (since i got a order open for march) that they are either coming with a new miner or some other big news is coming out, anyone else with these thoughts ?

Considering the current price of BTC and BCH, why would you buy? Bitmain would have to cut the price in half to make it an attractive purchase.

since bitmain opened the last batch it hasnt sold out... either they have increased production by a lot, or there is some backroom information that the big companies arent buying any letting the small ones take the hit, considering there are news about smaller chips and samsung coming to the game and a lot of people with big farms selling all their S9's; brings me some fear (since i got a order open for march) that they are either coming with a new miner or some other big news is coming out, anyone else with these thoughts ?

Considering the current price of BTC and BCH, why would you buy? Bitmain would have to cut the price in half to make it an attractive purchase.

any real gamer that believe in BTC mining would make estimations to where it is going, and would consider the low quantity when the price is high, if i were one, this would be a time to buy them, since most time getting a S9 at MRSP is not about money, is about availability

since bitmain opened the last batch it hasnt sold out... either they have increased production by a lot, or there is some backroom information that the big companies arent buying any letting the small ones take the hit, considering there are news about smaller chips and samsung coming to the game and a lot of people with big farms selling all their S9's; brings me some fear (since i got a order open for march) that they are either coming with a new miner or some other big news is coming out, anyone else with these thoughts ?

Considering the current price of BTC and BCH, why would you buy? Bitmain would have to cut the price in half to make it an attractive purchase.

any real gamer that believe in BTC mining would make estimations to where it is going, and would consider the low quantity when the price is high, if i were one, this would be a time to buy them, since most time getting a S9 at MRSP is not about money, is about availability

Yeah, but if they cut the price, you know what will happen, right? Difficulty will raise so quickly, that we would all wish they never decreased the price. So current price is OK

since bitmain opened the last batch it hasnt sold out... either they have increased production by a lot, or there is some backroom information that the big companies arent buying any letting the small ones take the hit, considering there are news about smaller chips and samsung coming to the game and a lot of people with big farms selling all their S9's; brings me some fear (since i got a order open for march) that they are either coming with a new miner or some other big news is coming out, anyone else with these thoughts ?

Considering the current price of BTC and BCH, why would you buy? Bitmain would have to cut the price in half to make it an attractive purchase.

any real gamer that believe in BTC mining would make estimations to where it is going, and would consider the low quantity when the price is high, if i were one, this would be a time to buy them, since most time getting a S9 at MRSP is not about money, is about availability

Yeah, but if they cut the price, you know what will happen, right? Difficulty will raise so quickly, that we would all wish they never decreased the price. So current price is OK

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since bitmain opened the last batch it hasnt sold out... either they have increased production by a lot, or there is some backroom information that the big companies arent buying any letting the small ones take the hit, considering there are news about smaller chips and samsung coming to the game and a lot of people with big farms selling all their S9's; brings me some fear (since i got a order open for march) that they are either coming with a new miner or some other big news is coming out, anyone else with these thoughts ?

Considering the current price of BTC and BCH, why would you buy? Bitmain would have to cut the price in half to make it an attractive purchase.

any real gamer that believe in BTC mining would make estimations to where it is going, and would consider the low quantity when the price is high, if i were one, this would be a time to buy them, since most time getting a S9 at MRSP is not about money, is about availability

Yeah, but if they cut the price, you know what will happen, right? Difficulty will raise so quickly, that we would all wish they never decreased the price. So current price is OK

I wasn't saying I wanted them to cut the price. They could leave it as is, so the nobody buys and the diff stays where about where it is. If the diff had a negligible increase or even decrease, I'd be as happy as a puppy with two peters.

I'm just saying I wouldn't buy at that price. Apparently not a lot of others want to either, considering how long they've been available. If you want to make estimations as to where BTC is going, you're better off buying BTC than the S9 at the rate Bitmain is offering them for sale.

No one is snapping up the S9s because difficulty has increased so much & is continuing to increase daily, that the S9s no longer mine much bitcoin in a year. In Nov. an S9 was mining about 1 bitcoin regardless of price. Fast forward 3 months and an S9 mines less than 0.5 bitcoin. Right now bitcoin is having a tough time breaking above $9000 and may end up going back below $8000. So paying $2320 for an S9 now is a big risk with so much going against bitcoin. Also, there are hundreds of S9s and huge lots being sold on eBay now vs. a month ago.

Is this estimation correct? I can't believe delivery costs are that high

Are there any other delivery options? How you guys deliver S9 to your country? I believe delivery prices I pointed out are more or less the same across Europe.

This is European Union man, prices are identical. By the way this is your least problem, you should be more worried about the ~20% (depending on the country, but it is around that percentage) customs duties that you will have to pay upon delivery Else said = 2 760 USD + 552 (20% taxes) = 3312 USD final price as compared to 2320 list price. This is what all we have all been paying for 1 machine in EU. If you notice unofficial European resellers, prices are even higher, so that they can be on profit.

Is this estimation correct? I can't believe delivery costs are that high

Are there any other delivery options? How you guys deliver S9 to your country? I believe delivery prices I pointed out are more or less the same across Europe.

This is European Union man, prices are identical. By the way this is your least problem, you should be more worried about the ~20% (depending on the country, but it is around that percentage) customs duties that you will have to pay upon delivery

I agree.I have estimated the duty and vat on importing an S9 into the EU at around 800 Euro (Duty 262 & VAT 560), so that would bring your total to around a 3000 Euro at the S9's current price. UPS, or whoever, won't release the delivery to you unless you pay the ransom.

Is this estimation correct? I can't believe delivery costs are that high

Are there any other delivery options? How you guys deliver S9 to your country? I believe delivery prices I pointed out are more or less the same across Europe.

This is European Union man, prices are identical. By the way this is your least problem, you should be more worried about the ~20% (depending on the country, but it is around that percentage) customs duties that you will have to pay upon delivery Else said = 2 760 USD + 552 (20% taxes) = 3312 USD final price as compared to 2320 list price. This is what all we have all been paying for 1 machine in EU. If you notice unofficial European resellers, prices are even higher, so that they can be on profit.

Thx for response Kobo_eth!

Still can't believe in these numbers. Everyone in sources that I came through calculates payback period simply based on production price (2 320 USD)

With 3 312 USD initial cost and 11.8 USD daily revenue (0.00127 BTC (Whattomine data as of now) * 9 300 (Coinmarketcap data as of now) = 11.8 USD) S9 will pay out itself in like 280 days and that's without taking into account complexity growth and risks of new Antminer release

I agree.I have estimated the duty and vat on importing an S9 into the EU at around 800 Euro (Duty 262 & VAT 560), so that would bring your total to around a 3000 Euro at the S9's current price. UPS, or whoever, won't release the delivery to you unless you pay the ransom.

Still can't believe in these numbers. Everyone in sources that I came through calculates payback period simply based on production price (2 320 USD)

With 3 312 USD initial cost and 11.8 USD daily revenue (0.00127 BTC (Whattomine data as of now) * 9 300 (Coinmarketcap data as of now) = 11.8 USD) S9 will pay out itself in like 280 days and that's without taking into account complexity growth and risks of new Antminer release

Well man, this is the bare truth. It is simply because the majority of forum guys are situated in the US, where things are totally different. I was surprised myself to realize a few months ago (thanks to the guys here) that there were almost no import duties into the US from China and also the DHL/UPS delivery costs were totally different...Long story short - mining is a future investment, I doubt someone buys to get the cash immediately. When I ordered my first miners, the ROI (covering duties, taxes and everything) was 2 months in the best days. When they arrived, ROI was double; now it is double and a half. Tomorrow (as you can see Bitcoin price is surging like crazy today) ROI can be - who knows...

Consider:- Bitmain recently releasing previously unannounced blake miner with shipping within 10 days- Competition heating up in sha256 mining space so bitmain looking for new markets- Bitmain seems to be rolling out miners for new algos in blitzkrieg fashon- Would fit pattern of bitmain building asic chips for gpu algos- threats from dev teams to change hashing algos or switch to Proof of Stake does not deter them

Is this estimation correct? I can't believe delivery costs are that high

Are there any other delivery options? How you guys deliver S9 to your country? I believe delivery prices I pointed out are more or less the same across Europe.

This is European Union man, prices are identical. By the way this is your least problem, you should be more worried about the ~20% (depending on the country, but it is around that percentage) customs duties that you will have to pay upon delivery Else said = 2 760 USD + 552 (20% taxes) = 3312 USD final price as compared to 2320 list price. This is what all we have all been paying for 1 machine in EU. If you notice unofficial European resellers, prices are even higher, so that they can be on profit.

Thx for response Kobo_eth!

Still can't believe in these numbers. Everyone in sources that I came through calculates payback period simply based on production price (2 320 USD)

With 3 312 USD initial cost and 11.8 USD daily revenue (0.00127 BTC (Whattomine data as of now) * 9 300 (Coinmarketcap data as of now) = 11.8 USD) S9 will pay out itself in like 280 days and that's without taking into account complexity growth and risks of new Antminer release

Unfortunately those numbers seem to be assuming no pool fee and free electricity in addition to difficulty and new miners being released.

Most pools charge some sort of fee near 2% and electrical costs usually land somewhere around 10 cents per kilowatt. Assuming those numbers are factored in you're near 8 dollars without difficulty being factored in. Not bad, but there's more.

Difficulty is always going to go up and with a couple new miners being planned I suspect difficulty will only go up. In a couple difficulty periods at a rate of 5-10% the S9 will only be making half of what it is making now. Difficulty isn't linear, but this is just for estimation.

In an ideal world you're making your money back in 280 days, but that's not so for 99% of people. Unless BTC's price jumps up again you're probably not coming close to ROI- assuming the absolute best scenario at this current price point you'll make back just around $2000 a year. BTC may be volatile and prices might swing wildly every day, but you have no way of knowing what's next. Prices could go up just as easily as they could go down. It's pretty much a gamble each time you buy a miner from Bitmain as you have no way of seeing ROI info when you get the miner unless you have a crystal ball. You might be lucky, maybe not. Even with free electricity the S9 is still a questionable buy.

Consider:- Bitmain recently releasing previously unannounced blake miner with shipping within 10 days- Competition heating up in sha256 mining space so bitmain looking for new markets- Bitmain seems to be rolling out miners for new algos in blitzkrieg fashon- Would fit pattern of bitmain building asic chips for gpu algos- threats from dev teams to change hashing algos or switch to Proof of Stake does not deter them

Where it ends I do not know.

Actually, I do hope Bitmain release that ETH ASIC, as it would be a total game changer.It is totally not normal to pump for years the GPU production business, the stocks of ATI and NVIDIA skyrocket; on the other hand gaming business is declining as there are literally no video cards to be bought to play the latest top notch games. Today I also read this article on BBC News (seems legit) which is even more sad if it is true - lack of GPU hinders space research.https://twitter.com/coindesk/status/964039175686311938

Actually, I do hope Bitmain release that ETH ASIC, as it would be a total game changer.It is totally not normal to pump for years the GPU production business, the stocks of ATI and NVIDIA skyrocket; on the other hand gaming business is declining as there are literally no video cards to be bought to play the latest top notch games. Today I also read this article on BBC News (seems legit) which is even more sad if it is true - lack of GPU hinders space research.https://twitter.com/coindesk/status/964039175686311938