MSU curses, the Satan Saban, and Dantonio’s Inferno

When I heard the cry of BCS injustice from QB Kirk Cousins. I was so concerned about his emotional distress that I sought to understand why MSU deserved a BCS Bowl game.

Maybe MSU was deserving because of all of its success in recent bowl games.

LOL

I checked it out. In their last 5 Bowl games under Dantonio, they are 0-5; in their last 6 bowl games, they are 0-6; essentally, they are zero-for-the-decade, when you consider their absence from any bowl for the other 4 years.

Unable to understand why MSU deserved a BCS bowl, I asked: what explained the MSU failures over the past decade?

Certainly, the failures could not be their fault…

LOL

Their failures must just be all bad luck. Remember 2010, when they lost out the Rose Bowl to Wisc—who they beat—and lost the other BCS bid to Ohio---which took MSUs possible spot in the Sugar Bowl with ineligible players, then vacated the game. Then. recall from 2011, the last-minute, game-deciding running into the kicker penalty in the B1G title game vs Wisc. Certainly, that penalty could not have been their fault. MSU players were incapable even of personal fouls. How could they possibly mount an assault on a helpless kicker? Maybe an MSU player was blocked into the Wisc kicker by an unseen, evil spirit.

LOL

And what could explain MSU’s absence from the BCS over its entire 13 years, in which no less than 8 B1G teams have gone to a BCS bowl?

Again, I checked it out. This seemingly interminable drought in MSU’s history corresponds with the departure of Nick Saban, who left MSU for LSU and now ALA. Since Saban left, the latter two teams have won multiple national titles—even playing each other for the title now-- yet MSU has not even been able to get to any BCS game at all.

So, is MSU haunted by the ghost of Nick Saban—or since he is alive—is Saban himself the devil? (note that his name is only one letter removed from “Satan”).

Witness the well-known curse, caused by the departure of Babe Ruth from the Red Sox. When Babe Ruth left the Red Sox for the Yankees just before 1920, the Sox had 5 World Series wins, the Yankees had none. But after that, the Yankees won 26 titles and the Red Sox failed to win a single title for almost 90 years. The Boston fans then ascribed their failure to a demon—the ghost of the Bambino. So, was MSU now suffering from the curse of Satan---I mean, Saban? MSU has not won a bowl game for 10 years, since they played in the seldom-attended and now-defunct Silicon Valley Classic.

LOL

But sadly, the Saban/Satan jinx could not alone explain the MSU’s sorry history. Looking back much further, we find that MSU actually has not played in or won a Rose Bowl in nearly a quarter of a century.

On the surface, that particular failure seems to be a clear-cut case of another curse: the SI cover jinx. Indeed, MichiganState has not appeared in a single Rose Bowl since their 1988 star, Tony Mandarich was featured on the cover of SI. On that cover, he was called the "best offensive line prospect ever." Mandarich weighed 304, ran the 40 in 4.65 sec, and bench pressed 225 pounds an unheard-of 39 times. Before the NFL Draft, he was called the “Incredible Bulk.” Yet, after being cut, he was called the “Incredible Bust." Having been drafted ahead of Barry Sanders, Andre Rison, and Neon Deon Sanders, MSU’s Mandarich became regarded as one of the 5 biggest busts in NFL history. And since then, MSU still has not appeared in a single Rose Bowl.

But were these failures a simple case of the SI jinx?

No. As I looked deeper into history, the story began to sound more like Faustian bargain: a deal made with a drug-peddling devil. Mandarich eventually revealed his longstanding abuse of drugs and steroids since his MSU days—in fact, faking a drug test before that fateful, last MSU Rose Bowl back in 1988. Moreover, he substantiated prior allegations that “steroid use was rampant among his teammates at Michigan State on that Rose Bowl team.”

Therefore, if we believe Mandarich, the last real, non-steroid-inspired Rose Bowl for MSU was over a half century ago--in fact, 54 years ago, in the days of Duffy Daugherty. That dought would be equalled by only one other B1G team (Minn).

But certainly, we can't tell Kirk Cousins that the fault for this epic failure lies with MSU. Should we then blame the failures on MSU players, who made a Faustian bargain and sold their souls to a drug-peddling Devil? Should we blame the SI jinx? Should we blame the departed coach, whose name sounds a lot like Satan?

I don’t know. I am ordinarily not a superstitious man. But we can tell Kirk Cousins that he is lucky he graduates. Pity those who must remain in East Lansing. What good can possibly come to them or to MSU, when the name of the current coach, Dantonio, sounds a lot like the author of Dante’s Inferno.

"It would be a travesty, it would be ridiculous to all of a sudden come back and get the feeling back, get the health back, feel good again and then all of a sudden go throw some other colors on my shirt and go coach."

I can understand your annoyance by the LOLs. However, I found from past experience that I needed to signal the readers here that I was being sarcastic. In one thread, I noticed that a statement intended as sarcastic by John Borton was taken literally by about 90% of the readers posting here. I also noted that George Dohrman, the SI writer, used LOL to signal sarcasm in one of his messages. So, reluctantly, I decided to try it out.

If you have other ideas about how to avoid misinterpretation of the author's intent, I would be happy to hear them.

Little known fact: 10 of the 12 opponents Michigan faced in 2011 are playing in bowl games. Not interested in revisiting Sparty's schedule, but I can assure you, their number is less than 10, as is the case with every other NCAA team. I understand the annoyance with apparent arrogance, and quite frankly the number of posts ripping Sparty on this site is over the top, but that "Charmin-soft schedule" argument is asinine, especially coming from another B1G school fan. The B1G is competitive intra-conference and any team can win week to week.

The fact that Iowa will get curb-stomped by Oklahoma four weeks after the regular season ends does not mean that Vandenburg, McNutt and Binns did not mark Nov 5 as the biggest game of the season and play up to the competition.

You come on here with that fucking username and expect everyone to roll out the red carpet? You could be the most rational MSU poster on this board but with that username, you're not going to get anything resembling respect around here no matter how reasoned your posts may be.

"The difference between a man and a boy is, a boy wants to grow up to be a fireman, but a man wants to grow up to be a giant monster fireman."

I don't even understand the username. Is he making fun of Denard being the most exciting player in the B1G? If so, that's just silly. I would venture to guess that our honorable friend would take Denard over Cousins every day of the week.

So far, this discussion has been very intelligent and mostly respectful, IMO. But I'm keeping an eye on it. Keep it clean, everyone, and have a good fight!

With an inter-state rival, that's understandable. But I've given credit for the way Sparty has played this year. I think you should be very pleased.

Miller played his best game - by leaps and bounds - in his last. Due in no small part to having Posey back. Just because he didn't make every play doesn't mean the overall performance can be dismissed. You played a severely weakened team in Columbus.

Overall, there are arguments on each schedule. We curb-stomped Nebraska (who pummeled you), and beat ND (who handled you easily). Yes, you destroyed Iowa, and we lost a squeaker. Obviously the head-to-head has most weight. If you played poorly against Nebraska, I'll buy that - I think every team has one or two games a year where they play poorly. For us it was Iowa. FWIW, I thought MSU outplayed Michigan and certainly outcoached us (imo errors by our OC). We fixed a lot of that, though.

Watching the B1G Championship, I thought MSU played hard and very well. But I was struck by how awful Wisconsin's defense was. I wouldn't have any fears of Michigan playing that team (that's not to say a win is assumed).

But you're mad about the BCS. Understandable, but not Michigan's issue. If you had won, Wisconsin would be out and we'd be in. If Nebraska and Penn State were playing, whoever lost would be out and we'd be in. That's what happens when you add a 3rd loss. Because you can speculate if Michigan would have had a 3rd loss had it made the B1G, but we know with certainty that MSU would. It must suck that it's Michigan in that position, and that this has happened 2 years in a row (your coach should be complaining more about OSU's cheating, rather than tragic heros). But that's how it went this year. Everyone on Michigan's team has said we'd have rather been playing in the B1G championship.

Don't come on here and say the scheduling argument is laughable. You brought it up. You are in the same division as Michigan - don't tell us your season is materially tougher. You played Wisconsin, so what. They proved to not be the powerhouse that you want them to be - they lost to a 6-6 OSU team before Miller got into a groove, they played an uninspired first 3 quarters against MSU, they're 7-pt dogs in the Rose Bowl and likely to lose by 14+. The B1G has good teams that are inconsistent.

The one consistency in the conference though, that you failed to address and cannot be measured by numbers, is that every team plays their best against Michigan. Watch Braxton Miller connect on 50-yard bombs. Watch Kirk Ferentz coach uncharacteristically aggressively. Watch AJ Jenkins and Illinois' defense play their best game of the season...all against Michigan. We don't play the Iowa team that lost to Minnesota, we don't play the Nebraska team that gets shit-stuffed by Wisconsin. We also don't play teams that are deflated from an emotional game the week before, be it a heartbreaking loss (read: ND) or a season-redeeming win (read: Iowa).

Is Sparty a quality team? Sure. Do they have a ton of young, athletic, aggressive players? Yeah. Were they among the most consistent teams in the conference? Arguably yes. Did they beat Michigan? Yes. Would I pick them and their fan base for a bowl game that I was invested in, over Michigan, Nebraska, Ohio State, Northwestern, Iowa, Wisconsin...? Absolutely not. You guys should play for the Rose Bowl because no one wants to invite you anywhere. I'm glad you're enjoying these couple years because the B1G is going to be a whole lot tougher moving forward. Oh wait, you don't play OSU, Wisconsin or Penn St in the next two years?...why don't you keep that whole schedule argument to yourself for now.

I will keep it short and direct because you get distracted. The schedule point is moot, and if anything, you will eat your own words in the future. I could very well be wrong on Sparty's schedule, because I don't follow it. The source I pulled could be incorrect, but your schedule will not be materially tougher than Michigan's, Mr. Charmin.

Yes, Michigan does not surprise anyone. They do no catch teams looking at weeks before or after their game.

That's all the Wolverine Nation needs is a Dantonio & Saban affair and then producing a love child. I'm sure he would be considered “The Chosen One” that would lead Sparty back to prominence and destroy the “skunk bears” once in for all. We would never hear the end of that. I prefer to wonder what JLS and Bobby Williams love brat would be like.

who was a student trainer for the late 80s teams including Mandarich and he told me that steroids were rampant with the players which Mandarich later admitted. Now an MD, he was really disgusted by the whole thing and flipped from the dark side to being a Michigan fan.

I've wondered if the current out of control Sparty team isn't up to their old tricks.

Anyway, if you throw the 1988 Roided Out Sparty team aside they were last legitimately in the Rose Bowl in 1966 or 46 years ago.

That's really pathetic. So for Dantonio to blow that with a punt block call late in the game, and I realize they were behnd at the point but...it was epically stupid.

You should never make fun of another team or persons demise & downfalls. As Michigan fans we should all be bigger then that. Because Michigan leads by example. But then you can throw all this B.S out when it comes to sparty & Dumbtonio! Carry on!

He was talking about their absence from a BCS game since saban left. He said "Since Saban left, the latter two teams (coached by Saban) have won multiple national titles—even playing each other for the title now-- yet MSU has not even been able to get to any BCS game at all.""

Elsewhere, unrelated to Saban, he does suggest that MSU in bowl games went essentially zero-for-the-decade---since the last victory was Dec 2001 in the Silicon Valley "classic." Technically, one would have to wait another few weeks for that bowl victory to be 10 years ago (ie midnight on Dec 31) but it will be true then. But do you really want the OP to say that the MSU bowl victory drought was not a decade but 9.9432 years (or 9 years, 341 days, 9 hours and 5 mintues)?

Nevertheless, there was one ambiguous, possibly misleading sentence at the end of the paragraph on Saban. Its placement there might have led one to conclude that the OP implied a bowl winning drought immediately after Saban's departure. The sentence has been revised and the OP thanks you for calling attention to the matter.

Instead of 4 years, why not do 40 years? Barring that, just do one year. Isn't that what a 'season' is? Should we not take into account previous seasons with completely different athletes while deciding BCS entry?

Yeah I had this pop up too with all the Sparty's crying over it. Its all about the H2H with MSU, they dont realize that your A. strength of schedule and B. winning of the big games is what actually counts.

What if Michigan and Michigan State had gotten to play each other a second time at the end of the season...just like Wisconsin and Michigan State did? Would Michigan have redeemed its loss to MSU also, just like Wisconsin? MSU had already beaten the Badgers once, but Wisky got the second chance and took advantage of it. The last game counted for more than the first game so Wisky got the Rose Bowl and MSU a lesser bowl. U of M, unlike the Badgers, did not get the second chance to redeem its loss to the Spartans (and the second match-up on a neutral site may have gone differently as well). So we are left at the mercy of the Bowl selection committees to get the Bowl match-ups that we have today, and Michigan ended up with a more impressive Bowl venue.

There are a number of factors that make it hard for MSU to succeed. The State of Michigan is not a big football statel. Yet there are two major programs fighting for the limited talent. MSU is a regional school. When MSU loses out to UM they often do not have another blue chip option. National schools like UM and OSU can reach out beyond the state and compete for national recruits.

Any given player can rise above their projections. This sometimes happens and combned with holding serve in the State of Michigan the last couple years helped MSU do as well as they possibly could. However to beat a power team it comes down to talent. Football is not like basketball where one great player can carry a team for a game. If you are out talented at 40 of the 44 two deep positions, what has to happen for you to win must be more extreme.

MSU has to depend for so many players to turn out because they are just not going to have waves of top15 recruiting classes every year. This will always thwart the WICS's, MSU's, and Iowa's from reloading. To compensate, these teams focus on an identity that maximizes play in the Big10 but not neccesarilly help against a good team that has 60 days to prepare for their scheme. The reality is college power programs are fueled by a constant influx of talent. If you are unable to bring in that top tiered talent, regression to the mean says some long shots do not turn out and you must suffer through a rough spot.

Given enough time, a top tiered program will easily be able to present a scheme that negates the identity that an overachiever used to win in their conference. This is why in my opinion why so many Big10 schools perform so poorly in the bowls. It also does not help that Big10 schools travel well and always get better bowls and thus opponents. But it does not explain how WISC's offense was totally thwarted by an undersized TCU.

Michigan getting a presigious BCS Bowl Bid over them is driving them INSANE!!!..It validates what we all knew..They are NOTHING...nobody pays attention to them..They will always be second fiddle to Michigan..NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS...and this BCS bid just validates that..

SO....what do they do? Whine, Cry and do EVERYTHING possible to minimize, beliitle and degrade the Sugar Bowl. I wont rehash that ,by now youve heard all the execuses..Never mind that they werent ELIGIBLE for a BCS bid and somehow thats all Michigans FAULT?..PLEASE!..Grow up

With Sparty its always.."SEE Were just as good as you"..Although they have NOTHING to back that claim up..1 Big 10 title every 30 yrs or so doesnt make you equal..Sorry but it doesnt..........Michigan is the ALL TIME WINNINGEST FOOTBALL TEAM IN AMERICA............42 BIG TEN TITLES,........ the BEST fight Song......., the BEST helmets..... 3 Heisman Winners,....... had a 33yr straight Bowls record........., Leads the nation in attendance 32/33 years.........the BIG HOUSE, and on and on and on and ON AND ON!..

Sure theyve won 4 straight..OK Ill grant them that..but 4 wins has brought the series record to

67-32-5.....Well...lets just say they have a VERY long way to go to be equal ...

Thank you Sparties for proving to us YET AGAIN why u will always be lil bro

I am not going to complain too vociferously, but do people really need to write ANOTHER post about how much whining MSU does? who cares? VT is coming up, the BBall team is doing well, and hockey is potentially going to miss the postseason for the first time in many poster's lives. There are other stories to talk about beyond some whiny MSU players bitching about not having the opportunity to lose in aBCS game.

Sparty is bitchin' b/c Michigan is going to a BCS game and they are not and last year they didn't get a BCS game either. Well, last year they were excluded and went to a "lower" bowl game and got destroyed by Alabama; they were never a factor? How would they have done in a BCS game? This year they feel short-changed again. Everyone with a pulse knows that all BCS bowl games aside from the Nat'l Championship game are for the cities in which the bowls reside and the programs with fan bases that travel well, eat out a lot and drink alot. Another words, fanbases that will support the local economies of the games. It's not so much about records as it is about generating income in the local economy and advertising $$ (sponsors). (See OSU, 2011 Sugar Bowl if needed).

A couple of things are required here:

1. A program that generates a pulse outside of the team's hometown.

2. A fanbase/alumni base that will pump lots o $$ in the local economy of the game by way of food, drink, entertainment.

3. A program that is recognizable by national and global advertisers.

Michigan covers all three very well and MSU...well..maybe one out of three. And as Meatloaf so eloquently put it: "two out of three ain't bad." So apparently one out of three is BAD.

What the mind can conceive and believe, the mind can achieve and...Those Who Stay WILL Be Champions.