“Robert ‘LaVoy’ Finicum, the spokesman of the refuge occupation, was shot and killed after he charged police during a roadside stop north of Burns on Tuesday, according to a man on Facebook who claims to be the driver of one of two vehicles involved in the highway shooting.” That’s the 411 from Les Zaitz, senior investigative reporter at oregonlive.com. Problem: Mark McConnell’s Facebook page is now blank. As is the deceased’s daughter’s Facebook page. One of our readers sent a screen cap of the LaVoyandjeanette Facebook page before it was wiped. I’ve posted it after the jump. As of this writing, we only have Zaitz’ description of McConnell’s video. A second-hand account as follows . . .

In his video, McConnell said Ammon Bundy and Cavalier were in the vehicle he was driving to John Day for a community meeting. He said Finicum was driving a pickup that carried Ryan Bundy, Payne, Cox and an 18-year-old girl.

He said as they traveled on U.S. 395 police vehicles pulled in behind them and stopped them. McConnell said he was removed by police first, then Ammon Bundy then Cavalier.

He said Finicum’s pickup was stopped about 200 yards away, and one passenger already was on the ground in handcuffs.

McConnell said Payne and Cox later recounted how Payne and Finicum got into a “heated discussion” about what to do.

“LaVoy was passionate about this, about the movement,” McConnell said.

McConnell said he noticed movement, and Finicum “took off” in the pickup with the remaining passengers. He said Payne and Cox described encountering a police roadblock about a mile north on the highway and apparently tried to get around it, becoming stuck in the snow.

“When he exited the vehicle, the rear wheels were still spinning,” McConnell said. “He charged at law enforcement” and was shot.

McConnell disputed earlier accounts on social media that Finicum was shot while on his knees with his hands up.

McConnell said he and the 18-year-old were taken to Burns for questioning and later released.

His account couldn’t be immediately confirmed, but several details matched accounts from law enforcement sources.

The above story doesn’t fit the narrative of a murderous FBI and Oregon State Police. The screen cap from Mr. Finicum’s daughter [now wiped] Facebook page does, presenting a very different not-to-say inflammatory picture of events surrounding her father’s death.

Police have scheduled a news conference for 10:30am PST. More details as we get them.

Well, Michael Brown was trying to get the cop’s gun when he was shot the first time. He was shot a second time when he charged at the injured cop whose gun he was trying to take.

So far nothing has been said about why the cop was justified in shooting the dude in Oregon other than “actions have consequences” and “don’t run at a cop”. Shooting someone for coming at you (especially if you’re a cop with force options and backup already on scene) is not justifiable deadly force.

See the video taken from inside the LaVoy truck. It clearly shows him being shot as soon as he exit the truck while his hand are up. He doesn’t try to charge an officer instead he moves away from the truck to draw the fire. He is shot several times while his hands were up before he lowered his hands the first time (more likely to grab at a bullet wound than to be going for his gun).

I am still withholding judgement and want more evidence and facts released. All we get are conflicting stories by different parties (both of whom who have valid reasons to lie about what transpired).

We have 3 versions of how Finicum was shot.
1) Hands up and standing/kneeling
2) Laying on the ground with his hands behind his back
3) Agent shot due to Finicum’s resistance (whatever that may means)

Which one is it? Was there any video(s). Most of the videos supporting the LE version of events get released immediately. Those damning the LEOs involved tend to take longer (sometimes years). Regardless, any video should be released immediately.

Now we have two different versions from supposed eye witnesses. One by a man who was let go who may or may not have a motive (i.e. being let go so easily) to explain things that corroborate the LEOs version of events (from a mile away???) and another by a poster on the deceased daughter’s facebook page. Both have been wiped (presumably by Facebook and equally presumably by request of the Feds or not).

Speculation will all go away if and when the Feds release any videos. And if there wasn’t any video, why not? why would they choose to not want the evidence to ensure those already on edge do not have a reason to react stupidly.

The first official video and statement released by the police have been proven to be BS. “Only six shots fired”. LaVoy had 9 holes in him not counting the dozen or so in the truck. A video taken from inside the truck clearly shows him being shot the first time as he exits the truck with his hands up. Using the sound from the video in the truck and official video (which has no sound, probably on purpose) LaVoy is shot several times as he moves away from the truck with its passengers while his hands are still up.

thank you for sharing that screen cap, now we have have 2 separate and distinctly opposite eye witness accounts.

Thara’s account is her Dad was shot in the face with his hands up. There is a concern that she would and could lie about how he died because she is either sympathetic of her dad’s cause or doesn’t want her dad to be viewed in a negative light. Making him out to be a martyr would (atleast in her mind) make his death mean something.

Mark McConnells account is that he charged the officer. The only issue I have is he was a mile away and at that point should have been either on the ground or in the process of being handcuffed and placed into the back of a police car. Could he have seen what transpired. Possibly. But he was also a mile away and the people involved were a little bigger than an ant. That is assuming that it was a straight road and there were no line of sight issues (i.e a cop car or some sort of foliage) between him and Finicum. Also what time locally were they arrested? By the time the news was out about the arrest, it would have been dark in Oregon and at a mile away, Mark would not be a reliable witness.

Check again. That Facebook page is still there and the posts she made in those screenshots are still there as well.
This is her FB page as well (not her posts on her dad’s account):https://www.facebook.com/thara.tenney

She was an eyewitness? Was she the 18-year-old girl? Is somebody telling us an 18-year-old girl was not seeing all this through her iphone lens? What she says is murder. Place her under oath and explain the penalties of perjury, see what she says then! And produce several videos, we all know they exist. If she lied, BTW, put her in jail.

His daughter was not the 18 year old girl in the vehicle and wasn’t an eye witness. The girl that was in the vehicle says that he was shot while walking towards the police with his hands up yelling at them to shoot him and she managed to see all this while laying down on the floorboards while the police were “riddling the car with bullets”. The whole story the girl gave sounds really embellished, like she was pulling things she had seen in movies out of her ass. She claimed they were stuck in the car being shot at for 5-10 minutes after Finicum was killed and that when she got out of the car there were snipers in the trees and there were 20 lasers on her.

The FBI has bent over backwards in an effort to NOT SHOOT these fuckwits, just as the Feds had bent over backwards to accommodate the arsonist ranchers, putting their desires above what might actually be best for the community and the land.

Because I would slow them down more than I would help. If I was physically capable of fighting from anything other than a fixed position, I would still be in the Marine Corps. However, that becomes problematic when half the tendons in one of your legs are severed and several major bones are being held together with pins and bailing wire.

Sorry Swarf, but it is obvious you are biased. If you wipe the smelly brown stuff off your nose, you might be able to see what is right in front of your face. It is the government that has to prove it’s innocence in this event. It is the government that is proven in it’s savagery and implacable hostility to our freedoms and our individual lives.

It is the government, not the Bundy’s, that have the history of mass murder in the burning deaths of almost 98 men, women and children. It is the government and it’s agents, not the Bundy’s, that have shot an unarmed mother in the head holding a baby and a teenage boy in the back while he was running away.

It is is the government, not the Bundy’s, that have invaded the homes and murdered dozens of innocent american’s during no knock warrants because they invaded the wrong house.

So until all the information is in, based on the past history of the casual murders of american citizens by the government, it is the Feds that are suspect, not this man.

Mostly, except when it’s not. And when it’s not, mostly the cops get some paid leave, a slap on the wrist, and back on the job. How many cops, after they shot an innocent home owner, after invading the wrong house, ended up losing their job, let alone ended up in jail?

I do know that if I ever do shoot someone and it is determined not to be justified, I’ll probably end up in jail and lose for the rest of my life, the right to vote and the right to KABA.

All animals are not equal, especially when that animal is wearing a badge.

Arsonist ranchers? So a guy burns off a hundred acres of grassland that will grow back in a season and its arson? What is burning down a CVS, multiple cop cars, many other buildings, etc, with no charges filed against anyone called? Making room to vent frustrations?

The winners always write the history so we all know where this is going. No matter what the Fed’s say the tin foil hat crowd will run with it. Show the video or videos I’m sure they have more than one.

Without knowing when the video went down, I have no reason to presume that the writer lied in his description of the video. Neither can I ascribe any motives that either the video or writer might have in characterizing the death as described, especially the video.

I’m still a little baffled about why they would leave the center when the Feds seem content to just let them boil over on their own.

Frankly a hands up narrative rings more false to me than a charge. Some of these guys may be doing it for notoriety, but I’d guess a fair number really believe in it. They know they will get shot instantly if the reach for a gun (why not a sleeve gun?) or make a similar movement. A charge to the death might let you close the gap before a shot is off from the officer and his comrades end up either having to brawl as well or risk shooting their own. On your knees sounds like the notoriety-type behavior.

We have seen on network news the dead guy saying that he wouldn’t be taken alive, essentially, within a day or two of being shot dead by cops attempting to arrest him, and in fact arresting several others (7?). At least some agreement that he drove away from a police stop, then ran into another and got stuck trying to evade that one. Then, apparently, he either got quietly out of the car and surrendered, or attacked an armed cop screaming threats of murder and mayhem. One sounds more likely than the other, but we still need to see the damn video, and there is no excuse for it being withheld unless someone doesn’t want it seen, for some reason. And I see no reason to expect that any videos have been left in the hands of the 7 surviving protestors, regardless of what they show, LE seems to have decided years ago that they have the authority to control all video of a crime scene. I, for one, do not like that.

we have gotten tothe point that the people do not believe the Government and the Government can kill at will. How long till thing change?
When the people fear the government there is tyranny
when the government fear the people there is liberty

If true, stupid. But why would he do such a thing? This really doesn’t make a lot of sense to me – unless I am missing something.

If true, it would seem to be in the best interest of all, but most especially the state, to get that video out there rapidly. So where is it?

“He charged at me” sounds like a really convenient explanation, really really convenient. Not that I am saying it’s not possible.

Also we must entertain the possibility that Mark McConnell is a state infiltrator, these things do of course happen and blindly trusting the state in these things is unwise. Again, I am not saying this is the case, just something that has to be considered. If the state doesn’t have bad actors embedded in with the occupiers I would be surprised.

Mind you I am not trying to justify the occupiers and their actions, I think this whole mess is a CF and occupying this building was a pretty bad plan to begin with.

That said I think we need to see some proof here – the video, because opening fire on these men better be really well justified.

Remember, an ugly and deadly firefight between the occupiers and the state is the kind of thing the media will eat up and present as proof that these crazy, anti-government, gun toting cowboys are just a bunch of whack jobs worthy only of being derided and would be expected to trend public opinion in the states favor.

Your beginning to sound like those in the BLM movement. They constantly ask, “why would he do that?” “Why would Michael Brown go after a police officer’s gun?” Sometimes, people are stupid, or angry, or both. You can’t always assume that someone will act rationally.

Yeah, we’re using different dictionaries, I think. Armed occupation with threat of violence is not really evocative of peaceful opposition. The lunch counter sit-ins from the civil rights movement would be remembered a bit differently if they’d all been sporting rifles and telling the media that “whatever happens, we’re definitely not going to jail.” What was that famous document of MLK’s? Letter from a Birmingham martyred afterlife? Try to curb that doublespeak, mate.

Really? I’m asking a pretty obvious question here, is it possible he did charge? Of course.

But it is both a stupid thing to do and a really convenient thing to have happened for the state given that he is now dead and can’t tell us firsthand exactly what happened. So it’s a very valid question and one that really needs to be backed up with more than just the officer saying ‘he charged’. If he did so there would have been multiple witnesses, and I find it hard to believe they would not have been putting this whole exchange on video.

This has nothing to do with BLM, I don’t trust the state and if I share that opinion with BLM then that shows exactly what, exactly?

On TV, I heard him myself, he was talking like he was actively planning suicide by cop. The description of running away, being trapped, and charging an armed officer sounds very much like suicide by cop. In which case it is too bad, but it was his choice. He is not, so far, my idea of a martyr. BUT!!! I have not yet seen the video.

The guy who was shot spent some time the last few days saying things like “They’re never going to take me alive.” When someone says something like that, it’s reasonable to assume they might be the type to stupidly charge at an armed cop. If that’s really what happened, it’s a miracle he didn’t get the others in the vehicle killed, too.

I don’t know the guy, but I would think if this was the kind of thing he might do, people who do know him would have some insight into it. I also agree that this bunch isn’t the wisest group of thinkers given what they are doing in the first place. But that doesn’t make it a given that the man charged an armed group of officers solely to set off the shot heard ’round the world version 2016.

Again, I don’t like when the state kills people and then pull up really convenient explanations that don’t make a lot of sense.

Obviously this could have happened, I am not debating that point at all.

“Frankly my dear, I don’t give a damn.”
These people were not invited. They were asked by local ranchers, the involved ranchers, and the local Indians to whom the land originally belonged, to leave. They were committing federal crimes on federal lands; their contention that the federal government cannot own any land is without logical or legal foundation. Finicum stated publicly that he would rather die fighting than be arrested and go to jail. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
This is not an issue about guns, nor the Second Amendment. Can we move on now?

Use of deadly force is authorized if the threat is credible. Only question is was the suspect armed as he charged (justified lethal), or unarmed requiring use of lesser defensive force, before escalation to deadly force)

I can only assume McConnell’s account is merely a second hand version of what happened after speaking with those who were in Finicum’s truck. He says this:

“McConnell said he noticed movement, and Finicum “took off” in the pickup with the remaining passengers. He said Payne and Cox described encountering a police roadblock about a mile north on the highway and apparently tried to get around it, becoming stuck in the snow.”

So right there he admits that this info comes from Payne & Cox. They must have told him that Finicum charged the LEO’s. If Payne & Cox don’t corroborate that story, then they either have changed their minds and are lying about what happened, or McConnell is lying about what they actually told him.

All of which would become clear instantly after watching a few of the videos. Why are they not out there? Does it take time to edit and doctor them? The government side is either being very stupid, or was being very criminal, there should be hours of video of the same 3 minutes from a hundred different angles, all loose and being watched by millions by now. Unless government does not want it seen.

Absolutely, with how stupid the government looked with Ruby Ridge and Waco, you would think they would prepare and have plenty of video evidence to make sure the road block and vehicle stops were done properly.

Unfortunately, I have a suspicion they will not release any video and when they do it will be edited in their favor.

If he did indeed charge the police he was attacking like a true terrorist martyr. All the terrorists want to go out in a blaze of glory. I am surprised he did not have on a suicide vest. On the other hand this may just be a story the Police are giving to cover their misdeeds. Hopefully a cell phone video will immerge to show what really happened.

These guys carried guns with them everywhere and went up there with the intention of getting shot. They wanted to be the next Waco or Ruby Ridge, it would bolster their cause. These guys carried guns to the bathroom with them and I am going to believe he was unarmed? Not likely. Personally I think the FBI should have bombed the place 3 weeks ago and left a big hole up there for a new lake for the birds if it weren’t for the indian artifacts. I certainly don’t know why they did not put the on a full lockdown up there shut off the power and let them with no snacks. Maybe then ole Lavoy boy wouldn’t have became a walmartyr for “the cause”. Live by the gun die by the gun. You can not strap your ar15 to your back and convince people you are on a peaceful mission. If that were the case every terrorist, every armed robber , could be said to be on a mission peace. Just do as they say, and there will be peace. I am a patriot, I vote. I don’t take my gun hold the national park and the community and the government hostage and say you will do things my way or else. Not only is that terroristic it’s crazy.

The video and his Facebook page are available. I’ve watched it. I am looking at it right now. He says Lavoy sped away and when he ran off the road into the snow, Lavoy jumped out of his truck with the wheels still spinning and passengers inside and charged at the troopers. From what Mark stated, it sounds like death by cop by a man who stated plainly that he would rather die than go to jail. Hopefully we will see dash cam videos too, but let’s not assume the “murdered in cold blood” rumors that have no actual video testimony are true when we have video testimony that it was not true.https://www.facebook.com/mark.mcconnell.127648/videos/vb.721369761/10154667085229762/?type=2&theater

His FB page appears quite functional…..another site so eager to make a point that they are willing to make any ridiculous assertion without considering that the readers can verify such simple allegations. Now, the fact to consider is one that he raises: Is he a Fed plant? The FB page is obviously new and there is no background information available, so it sure looks like it.

Mark McConnell was driving Ammon Bundy. He was not in the car with LaVoy. When LaVoy was shot, McConnel was a mile away from the shooting and said that he did not see it yet he says Lavoy ran at police (with his hands over his head). Mark McConnell has sided with the FBI and HE HAS ALREADY BEEN RELEASED!!! He’s the only one released! Does that tell you something? The rest of those arrested have been sent to Portland 6 hours away, but not McConnell. The roads are STILL BARRICADED and Mark McConnell is OUT! WHAT DOES THIS TELL YOU? Mark McConnell IS THE FBI!

1) No, I don’t trust the government. After 22 years of working there, I know governments are comprised of people, and there will always be someone placing their personal motives ahead of what’s right. Some people are bad, and agencies are made up of people. Stop damning the whole…it undermines the kernel of truth you’re trying to nourish with the people you’re trying to convince. The government is not evil: People running the government “may” be evil and have an agenda, but there are far more honest people just trying to do the things a government needs done. Painting everyone with the same brush of conspiracy/bloodthirsty/anti-patriot vitriol will do nothing more than convince people you wear tinfoil hats and believe the Russians are talking to you through your fillings. Use facts, state your opinions supported by facts, and then let them stand on their own merits. Secretly worried your opinions don’t have merit? Keep them to yourself…it won’t hurt anything other than your pride.

2) The FBI might be a lot of things, but it isn’t 1993 anymore, and there is absolutely now way in hell that an unjustified shoot could be hidden when there are multiple agencies involved. Especially local agencies, who don’t have a warm fuzzy relationship with the Feds that just showed up and started directing things in the town where they have to live with the consequences. I don’t know why so many POTG can’t grasp this concept, but the vast majority of LEO tend to be on the conservative side of center, and the further you get away from the cities, the more conservative they get. Most officers believe in things like individual liberties, honor, justice and truth, and when you imply that all cops are dirty because some asshat cop in Chicago got caught doctoring evidence, you may as well be saying that all men are rapists because Ben Rothlisberger is a man. Again…you lose credibility and the chance to make a difference is gone.

3) If you’re not a cop, don’t parrot what your uncle’s cousin’s half-brother said he heard at a coffee shop about the Use of Force. Every agency has a model they teach their officers, and most of them revolve around a reasonable person’s perception of the subject’s actions. Reaching inside a waistband after the officers have told someone not to move = bad idea likely to result in immediate pain, and depending on the totality of the circumstances, may authorize the use of force. Running toward a group of officers who already have firearms aimed at you after being told to stop moving = ultimate stupidity with no other outcome than the application of deadly force. When you say things counter to this truth (like there’s no reason for a bunch of cops to shoot just one guy running at them), you show ignorance, and cast doubt upon everything else you’ve said.

You can’t force someone to believe your version of the story any more than Nancy Pelosi can force you to believe that she actually read the Affordable Care Act before voting on it. If you want to make a difference in the narrative, don’t make it personal. I’ll say it again: State your opinions supported by fact and evidence and then get out of the way. It’s about the situation. About the truth. You might even say it’s about America. It’s NOT about you.

Hard to say that wasn’t a justified use of force based on the video. The moment he reached inside his jacket with his right hand, he left the cops no choice. What I’m really curious about though, is the exchange of what appears to be gunfire with the people remaining inside the truck…were they really so dumb as to shoot at a bunch of cops while trapped inside a stuck vehicle?