Darkfall did sell over 100K copies in its lifetime, but sure as hell wasn't at release. Secondly youve already been provided a source link the last time you question the numbers.

You know they had 200k for beta registration ? That means 200k have been intrested in the initially vision of Darkfall.

WTF does that have to do with anything? Mortal Online has 188,534 forum members, does that mean they have kind of player base?

"btw the last official number was 150k sold copies of which only 10k -15k have become customers."

That doesnt even make sense,...if they sold 150000 copies, they had 150000 customers.

What point are you trying to make???

You make no sense and aren't willing to understand is like alking to a brick.

is the main point of MMO's to sell copies of the game or to host servers and maintain ACTIVE playerbase and its subscriptions ?

-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!

"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)

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Originally posted by Zerglet

Instead of relying on actual sandbox mechanics and implementing missing content from the game they started combining ideas and mechanics from themepark and arena style games. After the initial playerbase dissipated only the PvP crowd remained active and that's what DF:UW is geared towards.

It's a completely different game for a completely different kind of playerbase. The players that quit early on DF1 will find even less in DF:UW of what they already found lacking in DF.

Could you be so kind to elaborate on your statements. They already have a heavy focus on sandbox features ingame, what creates a demand for more sand, and what makes you think they havent? Why are these supposedly 'themepark' and 'arena style game' mechanics bad, and what are they? What makes DFUW 'a completely different game for a completely different kind of playerbase?' From the overview we've gotten from community Q/A, it feels pretty clear that the game hasnt drastically changed in ways you dramatically describe.

Yes, the initial playerbase did decrease, but that was also due to systems strengthening and narrowing it down for the Griefer gameplay. While I love this, having options for diversity is also great as I prefer a society with different interests. This is an approach theyre taking to expand their playertypes, so that the crafters for instance can hang out safely in the city. Sooner or later you'll come across them in other parts of the world when farming mats, heck it can be even more fun killing a non griefer. And then you have the removal of load lag and most likely scripts - which wasnt hardcore in the first place. These feats are a direct counter argument to your statement claiming that "The players that quit early on DF1 will find even less in DF:UW of what they already found lacking in DF.'

Darkfall did sell over 100K copies in its lifetime, but sure as hell wasn't at release. Secondly youve already been provided a source link the last time you question the numbers.

You know they had 200k for beta registration ? That means 200k have been intrested in the initially vision of Darkfall.

The resulting number of 100k wich was announced i think 1 year after release can be accounted firstly to AV's incapability to respond technically to this demand and secondly by the disappointement many players regarding the gameplay.

Doesn't here ring a bell for DF UW realese ? today in the same situation many of DF's potential playerbase are worrying about the gameplay features and are worrying about the incompetence AV's for a clean release, hell the similarities with the no info strategy pre DF and pre DF UW are astounding.

btw the last official number was 150k sold copies of which only 10k -15k have become customers.

And it looks like for this laucnh there is even MORE diabled and less features and sandbox then on the last launch.

get real.

200k were interested over what time period? 100k after a year is to be balmed on AV (eh?) by AV not being able to meet the demand?? I bought the game without any issues at all..it was throtle realease over not a very long time and then open for anyone to buy it so what you are saying makes zero sense. Then you state that the other part of the reason sales were so low was due to people not liking the game play, lol if you can't see the paradox here i don't know what to say.

anything else you have said, I have no idea if this game will be better or worse than DF1. When i buy it and play it I will be sure to completly forget about this irrelevant Thread. :)

ok i will it make in smaller chunks for you.

i even mention the point in time, you better focus while reading next time. 200k registered for beta.

The game has been released february 2009 and this was the announcement at June the 24th

"As a result of these optimizations we’ve also been able to keep sales open most of the time. We’re still being careful because Darkfall resubscription rates remain very high even though this is a time for exams and/or vacations. It’s still difficult to buy Darkfall but we hope that after the US servers have launched it will be easier for new players to learn about and to buy Darkfall."

You have bought the game without any problem ? try to play lucky games because you could be the one under millions who wins..well for the vast majority the reality looked different.

Sure its possible to have been disappointed. AV used the same policy regarding information and beta like today. Many players believed in the FAQ and the website and the information Tasos was publishing and after they got into the game they found a big gap between the real gameplay and what was published on the site.

From 200k potential playerbase and 100k sold copies after a year only 10k - 15k remaned because of technically incompentece or lacking gameplay.

OK, I will try my best to make this easier for you or though I am not sure how.

200k showed interest in the beta......OVER WHAT TIME PERIOD!

"From 200k potential playerbase and 100k sold copies" This statement makes really makes no sense other than to try and find an angle to fling poop in AV's direction for no reason. You can't say in the same sentence that 200k people really really wanted to buy darkfall yet even though there were no restrictions on purchase of Darkfall after the first few months of release.....a full year later only 100k people had bothered their arse to buy it. Putting a cap on players allowed in to game based on what the size of your dev team believe they can handle in its early days is the right way to do things, any other way is just down right irresponsible.

As for a 10% retention rate, I am not sure how far off the mark of other games that is but really that is not a suprise to me, besides some of the issues that darkfall did have that lost some customers along the way, the main loss was from people unable to handle the extremely hardcore nature of full loot pvp any where any time, lack of character diversity and insane grind that the game was based around, now that they are addressing these very issues you get people screaming that they are dumbing the game down......

Darkfall did sell over 100K copies in its lifetime, but sure as hell wasn't at release. Secondly youve already been provided a source link the last time you question the numbers.

You know they had 200k for beta registration ? That means 200k have been intrested in the initially vision of Darkfall.

WTF does that have to do with anything? Mortal Online has 188,534 forum members, does that mean they have kind of player base?

"btw the last official number was 150k sold copies of which only 10k -15k have become customers."

That doesnt even make sense,...if they sold 150000 copies, they had 150000 customers.

What point are you trying to make???

You make no sense and aren't willing to understand is like alking to a brick.

is the main point of MMO's to sell copies of the game or to host servers and maintain ACTIVE playerbase and its subscriptions ?

Please take a moment and think about what youre trying to say.

Anyway, we can safely say 100's of thousands had an interest in Darkfall 1 over the years. Darkfall2 is improving on many of Darkfalls release shortcomigs and will only have two servers that can support "10000 concurrent" . Those servers remaining full is all up to AV.

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Originally posted by ayronamic

Originally posted by Zerglet

Instead of relying on actual sandbox mechanics and implementing missing content from the game they started combining ideas and mechanics from themepark and arena style games. After the initial playerbase dissipated only the PvP crowd remained active and that's what DF:UW is geared towards.

It's a completely different game for a completely different kind of playerbase. The players that quit early on DF1 will find even less in DF:UW of what they already found lacking in DF.

Could you be so kind to elaborate on what you mean here. They already have a heavy focus on sandbox features ingame, what creates a demand for more sand, and what makes you think they havent? Why are these supposedly 'themepark' and 'arena style game' mechanics bad, and what are they? What makes DFUW 'a completely different game for a completely different kind of playerbase?' From the overview we've gotten from community Q/A, it feels pretty clear that the game hasnt drastically changed in ways you dramatically describe.

Yes, the initial playerbase problably did decrease, but that was also due to systems strengthening and narrowing it down for the Griefer gameplay. While I love this, having options for diversity is also great as I prefer a society with different interests. This is an approach theyre taking to expand their playertypes, so that the crafters for instance can hang out safely in the city. Sooner or later you'll come across them in other parts of the world when farming mats, heck it can be even more fun killing a non griefer. And then you have the removal of load lag and most likely scripts - which wasnt hardcore in the first place. These feats are a direct counter argument to your statement claiming that "The players that quit early on DF1 will find even less in DF:UW of what they already found lacking in DF.'

I'm going to keep it short and to the point.

In a sandbox game you provide players the tools and means to mold the world in their vision and playstyle, in Darkfall players jump through dev imposed hoops much like you do in other themepark games.

If you came to Darkfall to fulfill a role other than just PvP then you are going to find even less in DF:UW. There is no use for ships, siege equipment and transport of goods. There are no incentives or meaningful purposes to fulfill any roles or playstyle other than PvP.

If you want to be a trader, politician, crafter, adventurer, explorer, pirate, mercenary, courier, transporter, sailer or whatever else you can think of: Skip Darkfall

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Originally posted by Zerglet

Originally posted by ayronamic

Originally posted by Zerglet

Instead of relying on actual sandbox mechanics and implementing missing content from the game they started combining ideas and mechanics from themepark and arena style games. After the initial playerbase dissipated only the PvP crowd remained active and that's what DF:UW is geared towards.

It's a completely different game for a completely different kind of playerbase. The players that quit early on DF1 will find even less in DF:UW of what they already found lacking in DF.

Could you be so kind to elaborate on what you mean here. They already have a heavy focus on sandbox features ingame, what creates a demand for more sand, and what makes you think they havent? Why are these supposedly 'themepark' and 'arena style game' mechanics bad, and what are they? What makes DFUW 'a completely different game for a completely different kind of playerbase?' From the overview we've gotten from community Q/A, it feels pretty clear that the game hasnt drastically changed in ways you dramatically describe.

Yes, the initial playerbase problably did decrease, but that was also due to systems strengthening and narrowing it down for the Griefer gameplay. While I love this, having options for diversity is also great as I prefer a society with different interests. This is an approach theyre taking to expand their playertypes, so that the crafters for instance can hang out safely in the city. Sooner or later you'll come across them in other parts of the world when farming mats, heck it can be even more fun killing a non griefer. And then you have the removal of load lag and most likely scripts - which wasnt hardcore in the first place. These feats are a direct counter argument to your statement claiming that "The players that quit early on DF1 will find even less in DF:UW of what they already found lacking in DF.'

I'm going to keep it short and to the point.

In a sandbox game you provide players the tools and means to mold the world in their vision and playstyle, in Darkfall players jump through dev imposed hoops much like you do in other themepark games.

If you came to Darkfall to fulfill a role other than just PvP then you are going to find even less in DF:UW. There is no use for ships, siege equipment and transport of goods. There are no incentives or meaningful purposes to fulfill any roles or playstyle other than PvP.

If you want to be a trader, politician, crafter, adventurer, explorer, pirate, mercenary, courier, transporter, sailer or whatever else you can think of: Skip Darkfall

ROFL, more lies, even worse lies at this point.

No use for ships?? did you even play darkfall lol, no use for seige equipment? wtf are you talking about...seriously. If you wanted to set yourself up as a transporter of goods there was nothing stopping you at all...or did you need the devs to make some theme park thing for you to be able to achieve this?

Yes you can be a trader lots were in DF..nothing has changed, politician - my god the largest part of the game is about politics, crafter - yes yes i know and knew many many dedicated crafters, adventurer and explorere - one of my personal favourite things to do in darkfall, pirate - i knew a pirate clan in darkfall..they attacked one of our holdings everyday, we used to set sail and have many sea battles with them...oh i just give up here all...everything you said are not just attempts to stretch some truth they are just blatent lies. I am starting to feel like i am being trolled hard >.>

EDIT: what is sad is that i agree in principle with your post and your general view of the game...it would be great if they added lots more fluff, lots more tools, lots more sandbox, would just make the game even better. But why you need to resort to all the lies and hate i just don't get it, just because you didn't get what you want. Spoilet brat much. Darkfall was still a fantastic game. The best i personaly have ever played (and i am not new around the block, my first game was The Oracles Cave). Could it be better? OFC...but it does not deserve all the crap you want to throw at it.

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Originally posted by ZergletI'm going to keep it short and to the point.

In a sandbox game you provide players the tools and means to mold the world in their vision and playstyle, in Darkfall players jump through dev imposed hoops much like you do in other themepark games.

If you came to Darkfall to fulfill a role other than just PvP then you are going to find even less in DF:UW. There is no use for ships, siege equipment and transport of goods. There are no incentives or meaningful purposes to fulfill any roles or playstyle other than PvP.

If you want to be a trader, politician, crafter, adventurer, explorer, pirate, mercenary, courier, transporter, sailer or whatever else you can think of: Skip Darkfall

There are many types of sandboxes with different tools and how far they allow players to stretch. You can do this in DFUW, and certainly hasnt changed from DF, as you nicely put it "to mold the world in their vision and playstyle". Politics and sieges, and politics doesnt have to end in PvP, as theres negotiations. It could sound more like this game isnt for you, perhaps Embers of C truly is for you, though I cant see the sharp differences.

You can fullfill any role as everyone can play anything with their 1 character, just not at the same time.

We do not know at this point how effective ships will be, but theyre there for a reason, and if they were to be less useful at least itll be nice for 'adventurers and explorers'. You can trade in the cities or wait for post-launch AH. Politics we've already been into. They have a merc system as described in Q/A. Rest I dont have specfics about but overall your imagination is the limit. Just because the systems strenghtens the chances for PvP being the superior direction, it doesnt mean that you arnt able to do the other things you listed as useless.

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If you want to be a trader, politician, crafter, adventurer, explorer, pirate, mercenary, courier, transporter, sailer or whatever else you can think of: Skip Darkfall

Did you even play Darkfall?

Almost all of that was done and possible.

You are priceless

My guess is yes. For one hour, at a goblin spawn, close to launch, with lots of deaths.

Beside politics which i guess are possible in any MMO because they depend on human communication and well AV can't sabotage it even when they rtry it through dumb chat mechanics everything else is shallow playstyle in DF.

Is possible isnt same as is enjoybale and intresting and gets supported by gameplay mechanics.

Many gameplayplay mechanics even counteract some playstyles like global banking and global ressources for trader courrier , transporter etc.

With DF UW we gettinmg global AH which will eliminate them once and for all.

-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!

"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)

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If you want to be a trader, politician, crafter, adventurer, explorer, pirate, mercenary, courier, transporter, sailer or whatever else you can think of: Skip Darkfall

Did you even play Darkfall?

Almost all of that was done and possible.

You are priceless

My guess is yes. For one hour, at a goblin spawn, close to launch, with lots of deaths.

Beside politics which i guess are possible in any MMO because they depend on human communication and well AV can't sabotage it even when they rtry it through dumb chat mechanics everything else is shallow playstyle in DF.

Is possible isnt same as is enjoybale and intresting and gets supported by gameplay mechanics.

Many gameplayplay mechanics even counteract some playstyles like global banking and global ressources for trader courrier , transporter etc.

With DF UW we gettinmg global AH which will eliminate them once and for all.

So according to your post that still leaves: trader, politician, crafter, adventurer, explorer, pirate, mercenary, sailor Secondly, those roles are as deep as you make them and many have taken them to the extreme.

I think youre looking for a theme park where things are spelled out for you and spoon feed. You want to be a "Pirate" go over take the "Pirate" quest...poof youre a "Pirate" . And you know youre a Pirate because you now have a Parrot on your shoulder and an eye patch. Aaaargh!!!

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If you want to be a trader, politician, crafter, adventurer, explorer, pirate, mercenary, courier, transporter, sailer or whatever else you can think of: Skip Darkfall

Did you even play Darkfall?

Almost all of that was done and possible.

You are priceless

My guess is yes. For one hour, at a goblin spawn, close to launch, with lots of deaths.

Beside politics which i guess are possible in any MMO because they depend on human communication and well AV can't sabotage it even when they rtry it through dumb chat mechanics everything else is shallow playstyle in DF.

Is possible isnt same as is enjoybale and intresting and gets supported by gameplay mechanics.

Many gameplayplay mechanics even counteract some playstyles like global banking and global ressources for trader courrier , transporter etc.

With DF UW we gettinmg global AH which will eliminate them once and for all.

Ah man, sorry to break this to you, I am not sure how to break the news, how to let you down softly, errm

I am afriad that a statement on AH was made a long time ago that they are under review due to player concerns and won't be in at launch :(

OFC i take this as code as they not finshed it yet but whatever xD Having no idea about how AH will work if / when they are implemented it is pretty hard to comment on what you say. Are they in? are they out? if they are in will they be global? Is there going to be a tax system? I HAVE NO FREKIN IDEA

Lets pressume AH are in and are global, the plan was that they were only to be placed in the few remaining starter cities meaning one of two things, there won't be many and yes you actualy still have to travel to actual get anything. This alone means nothing has changed in regards to setting up as a courier, if anything given it will give even more option for a trader to bring things to final destination for a small fee. Given that someone could ask for a delievery in trade chat and now anyone in the starter city could have access to whatever was needed rather than having to trawl through thier entire bank account just to confirm they don't have it.

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Ah man, sorry to break this to you, I am not sure how to break the news, how to let you down softly, errm

I am afriad that a statement on AH was made a long time ago that they are under review due to player concerns and won't be in at launch :(

OFC i take this as code as they not finshed it yet but whatever xD Having no idea about how AH will work if / when they are implemented it is pretty hard to comment on what you say. Are they in? are they out? if they are in will they be global? Is there going to be a tax system? I HAVE NO FREKIN IDEA

Lets pressume AH are in and are global, the plan was that they were only to be placed in the few remaining starter cities meaning one of two things, there won't be many and yes you actualy still have to travel to actual get anything. This alone means nothing has changed in regards to setting up as a courier, if anything given it will give even more option for a trader to bring things to final destination for a small fee. Given that someone could ask for a delievery in trade chat and now anyone in the starter city could have access to whatever was needed rather than having to trawl through thier entire bank account just to confirm they don't have it.

Just more unthoughtful rants, thats all i am seeing sorry.

So you dont trust AV 's announcement and presentation of feature's then ?

AV describes how their "market system" works and you don't trust them they will even implement it ? intresting.

Then after you admit you don't even know if its beeing implemented you know exactly how for some reason. ? "there won't be many" , "you have to travel" ? how you are so sure about ?

From their presentation of their "market system" one thing is sure. They will be global and that means no one has to travel for trades if he decides so because basing on the description everyone has the choice NOT to travel. What will everyone do on critical valuable transactions and trades ? i think you are smart enough to find out yourself ..

-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!

"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)

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Ah man, sorry to break this to you, I am not sure how to break the news, how to let you down softly, errm

I am afriad that a statement on AH was made a long time ago that they are under review due to player concerns and won't be in at launch :(

OFC i take this as code as they not finshed it yet but whatever xD Having no idea about how AH will work if / when they are implemented it is pretty hard to comment on what you say. Are they in? are they out? if they are in will they be global? Is there going to be a tax system? I HAVE NO FREKIN IDEA

Lets pressume AH are in and are global, the plan was that they were only to be placed in the few remaining starter cities meaning one of two things, there won't be many and yes you actualy still have to travel to actual get anything. This alone means nothing has changed in regards to setting up as a courier, if anything given it will give even more option for a trader to bring things to final destination for a small fee. Given that someone could ask for a delievery in trade chat and now anyone in the starter city could have access to whatever was needed rather than having to trawl through thier entire bank account just to confirm they don't have it.

Just more unthoughtful rants, thats all i am seeing sorry.

So you dont trust AV 's announcement and presentation of feature's then ?

AV describes how their "market system" works and you don't trust them they will even implement it ? intresting.

Then after you admit you don't even know if its beeing implemented you know exactly how for some reason. ? "there won't be many" , "you have to travel" ? how you are so sure about ?

From their presentation of their "market system" one thing is sure. They will be global and that means no one has to travel for trades if he decides so because basing on the description everyone has the choice NOT to travel. What will everyone do on critical valuable transactions and trades ? i think you are smart enough to find out yourself ..

You are trying to hard to troll at this point. We have already talked about how development works, it is an ever evolving process. I totaly trust AV's announcement that the AH will not be in at launch.

"Then after you admit you don't even know if its beeing implemented you know exactly how for some reason. ? "there won't be many" , "you have to travel" ? how you are so sure about ?"

I stated that i have not got a freakin clue, stop trying so hard to troll and read the post. that staement was followed with "Lets pressume AH are in and are global, the plan was" this brings us back to development and how it evolves over time.....stop being such a baby, grow up for the last time.

"one thing is sure." No, just no nothing is ever for sure, the game has not launched, we know nothing, it is still in development, stop being an asshat. " They will be global and that means no one has to travel for trades if he decides so because basing on the description everyone has the choice NOT to travel." I just explained how you have no idea whatso ever about anything, please stop embarrasing yourself. You always have to travel, even with global banking...you still always had to travel to the person to actualy get something -.-

Stop trolling about things you know nothing about while trying to pretend you do, it has become evident you have never played darkfall for any length of time. you are just another troll wasting my time and everyone elses.

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Originally posted by Hancakes

I think youre looking for a theme park where things are spelled out for you and spoon feed. You want to be a "Pirate" go over take the "Pirate" quest...poof youre a "Pirate" . And you know youre a Pirate because you now have a Parrot on your shoulder and an eye patch. Aaaargh!!!

LOL, i didn't see this part and yes, exactly...I don't think this one has any idea what he wants, he claims he wants tools but like you have stated...he is not after real tools, he is after themepark features that appear on the surface to be sandbox tools.

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Originally posted by Hancakes

Originally posted by jahgreenGot to love this guys blatant lies and QQ. Nice making a forum account yesterday you troll. I have openly criticsized AV multiple times on their Forums. Let me guess you work for Arenanet. Cause you definitely are spounting lies and making a colorfull presentation without fact.

[mod edit]

Well MO had it's chance, just a shame the devs were to busy playing / cheating at their own game instead of actualy developing the game any, "Awakening" was the biggest joke ever played on a gaming community. That game died the day that expansion came out and everyone got a good look at what they had been doing for the past year lol. Cummunity has been taken over by carebears and devs dancing to their tune, desperate to keep all 40 of its remaining online at anytime customers!

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I wouldnt mind Auction Houses being a Player building in a keep, you could have a tax for using it, would be localized. Would make for some interesting battles for sure lol. I dont think AHs should be in the safe zones though. Guess we will see.

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Originally posted by Oriphus

Originally posted by Hancakes

I think youre looking for a theme park where things are spelled out for you and spoon feed. You want to be a "Pirate" go over take the "Pirate" quest...poof youre a "Pirate" . And you know youre a Pirate because you now have a Parrot on your shoulder and an eye patch. Aaaargh!!!

LOL, i didn't see this part and yes, exactly...I don't think this one has any idea what he wants, he claims he wants tools but like you have stated...he is not after real tools, he is after themepark features that appear on the surface to be sandbox tools.

I really dont think he/she knows what they want or even how to express it. I'm getting they didnt like Darkfall and already dont like the yet to be released DF-Unholy Wars.

Politicians. We haven't seen many names rise in DarkFall's community as diplomats, haven't we? Because politics is relatively meaningless in DarkFall. That's why whenever there's a siege, all clans pretty much ally any clan they can while every other clan tries to join in on the battle because they're bored out of their minds. That's not politics, that's just a bunch of gladiators thrown into an arena to fight to the death.

Crafters, Traders, Transporters, Couriers. Pretty much every Darkfall players work on their crafting skills. There is litteraly nothing different between a dedicated crafter, and someone who just harvest and crafts while he AFKs to gain stats or be self-sufficient. Traders, not much going on in that area either, pretty much anybody can do it as with any MMORPG that has no centralized area to sell your things (Auction House)...unless you're talking about Trading Post....and I think I'll just leave it at that. Transporters....what exactly are you transporting? Oh right, nothing. You can just put it in your bank and take it out at a completely different bank elsewhere.

Adventurers, Explorers. What is there to explore? Has there ever been a significant discovery made hidden from players? Has there even been a purpose, a reason to explore? No. That's why AV introduced Chaos Chests. Again, I'll leave it at that, it pretty much speaks for itself.

Sailor, Pirates. Not much going on in the pillage'n plunder departement. You can't live at the sea...you can't create your own base...nothing. Not very pirate-y is it? Instead you've got few pre-located Clan Cities, some which a harbor/shipyard to make ships. Pretty much it.

Mercenaries. DarkFall has that (finally). In fact, that's what pretty much most clans are and have been all along, and that's exactly why Aventurine now introduces Mercenaries for DF:UW !!!!!!

Seriously...DarkFall is just one giant arena filled with players crying in the chat or forum because they got "zerged".