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Re: Is BF at 7 wks possible?

I've tried emailing different LLL leaders and not a one has replied to me yet and it's almost been a week. I suppose a call is probably in order. **EDIT: Finally got two to reply. Yay!**

Things were going really well, except for some nipple pain from time to time due to his shallow latch and then ...

I got mastitis and thrush.

I'm on antibiotics right now, but he's not. I'm too worried that I will pass some of this to him due to the fact that my nipples are still very itchy (I'm on day 7 of dicloxicillin and fluconazole) and so instead I've been pumping. Thing is, those cracked nipples I mentioned are still cracked and it hurts even to pump! I've been putting nursing butter/lanolin on a lot and it seems nothing really is helping. My nipples are still sore, pink (sometimes whitish/yellow on the very end), cracked, and I feel ridiculously hopeless.

Re: Is BF at 7 wks possible?

Sorry, mama! There's no need for a baby to be on antibiotics just because mama is, but when mama is being treated for thrush it is important to treat baby with antifungals as well. It's not a good idea to discontinue nursing due to thrush: by the time you come down with thrush your baby has already been exposed, and pumping isn't as good at maintaining supply as nursing, and you risk baby deciding that he prefers the bottle, and the best way to treat mastitis is to empty the breast thoroughly, and pumping doesn't do that as well as the baby.

When you have thrush you do not want to use nursing butter or lanolin, because they will seal moisture in and yeast (thrush) thrives on moisture.

I would do the following:
-call your local LLL
-call your local lactation consultant
-put the baby back to the breast
-make sure baby gets antifungals simultaneously with you
-check out this link on vasospasm: http://kellymom.com/bf/concerns/mom/...blanching.html It's possible that vasospasms are causing some of your pain- seeing whitish/yellow coloration on the nipple can be a sign of blanching, and the pain from vasospasm is often mistaken for thrush.

Re: Is BF at 7 wks possible?

I'm sorry for all your troubles! We had many problems too but we also had a really great IBCLC (lactation consultant) and I know they do home visits around here especially when it's cold and they don't want the babies out in the cold.
I tried to read all the posts, but did you ever see if you could get your baby's tongue tie clipped? We had that done around 6 weeks.
I also have flat nipples but actually they became less flat after a few months of nursing and pumping and now they aren't flat really.
Hang in there and please make sure you're reaching out and getting the support you need. I am sorry it's been such a rough road and I commend you for all of your hard work!

Re: Is BF at 7 wks possible?

Agree with mommal. Neither thrush nor mastitis is a reason to stop nursing. If it is simply too painful to nurse, that is a different story. But otherwise, it is best to keep nursing. When dealing with thrush, if you are pumping, you have to continuously dissenfect the pump parts, the bottles, the nipples- so that is a ton of extra work.
Who diagnosed the thrush? Who diagnosed the mastitis? Did the thrush come after the antibiotics for the mastitis? As mommal noted, Nipple trauma for other reasons is often misdiagnosed as thrush, and it's a tricky thing to diagnose. So, just FYI. Also, if you have thrush, baby must be treated as well even when baby is asymptomatic. This is standard.

I am sorry it took so long for a Leader to get back to you. Yes, when I suggest someone call a Leader, I do mean call. I do not even give my e-mail out until I have talked to a mom first. What LLL Leaders can provide usually requires a live conversation, especially when a mom is facing multiple issues. I also always suggest a mom call every LLL Leader in her area, out of her area, call the LLL helpline-basically, keep calling until you get someone on the phone or a call back. LLL Leaders are volunteers and we don't keep office hours. Leaders have families and jobs and sometimes getting back to a mom quickly is just not possible. Also, keeping phone numbers etc. updated falls to the individual Leader, so if a Leader retires or moves or changes contact info or whatever, unless she takes it upon herself to remove her phone number from every website it may be on, there may be outdated info out there. IF you are going from a hard copy list given to you by the hospital or whatever, that can really be bad. I recently saw a list a new mom was given that was 10 years old. The year was right on it! The hospital just kept making copies and never bothered to try to see if the contact info was still accurate. Add to this human or mechanical error-malfunctioning voice mail or e-mail, or the caller forgets to leave thier number or leaves it so quickly it is unintelligible- (All of these have happend to me)- it is really is important to keep trying. Also, not every LLL Leader will be your cup of tea. You want to find the Leader and/or IBCLC that works for YOU.

This does not mean a mom will usually need to call a dozen Leaders to get a call back, it depends completely on so many factors, it could take one call, it could take 5. It just depends.

Re: Is BF at 7 wks possible?

The mastitis was diagnosed by a nurse, as was the thrush ... but it was over the phone. I believe I truly did have mastitis because of the hot and pink-colored area that appeared on the bottom part of my breast and because it hurt to even lay down on that side of my body because of the boob pain. Then the nurse I called said she thought I had thrush as well because my nipples were itchy and pink and shiny; I would have had to probably get fluconazole anyway because I always have horrible reactions to antibiotics in terms of yeast infections.

I called the ped's office and they said if the baby doesn't have any symptoms they're not going to prescribe a damn thing. I nearly screamed at the nurse on the phone, but that's what they said so what do I do? :/ Not much, I guess.

I'll keep trying to get him on my boob. It is really painful, though so is the pumping. Thanks bunches, guys!

Re: Is BF at 7 wks possible?

Wow, my doc won't prescribe ANYTHING over the phone. Certainly not antibiotics. I'd suggest going in to actually see the doc, and make sure your baby goes in, too. Your midwife or ob may be more knowledgeable about thrush and may be willing to prescribe a yeast treatment for the baby. If not, keep looking for a doc who knows that yeast in mama = yeast in baby, symptoms or not!

Re: Is BF at 7 wks possible?

I am no thrush expert, but what you describe does sound like thrush. According to Breastfeeding Answers Made Simple, a ginormous textbook for LCs & health professionals, it is indicative of thrush if mom has the stabbing pain PLUS that shiny or flaky skin on the areola and nipples. And that sounds pretty much like textbook mastitis too. Sometimes anti-biotic use will cause thrush, that is why I asked about that. Are you trying pro-biotics?

Frustrating your doctor won't treat you & your baby properly for thrush, even after a nurse diagnosed it albeit over the phone. FYI, a symptom of thrush in baby is discomfort nursing, such as baby tries to latch and pulls off, as if in discomfort. So, if you baby is doing that, you could run that by them as a symptom of thrush. (If baby is not doing that it does not mean it is not thrush.)

Gentian violet is a thrush treatment option that does not require a prescription.

The protocol for babies, again, according to Breastfeeding Answers Made Simple (Nancy Mohrbacher, 2010) is: "Dip cotton swab in a 0.5% or 1% solution and swab inside baby's mouth on cheeks, gums, and tongue once or twice daily for 3 to 7 days. (Avoid stronger concentrations, which can cause sores in baby's mouth.) Stop after four days if symptoms are gone. GV can be used with other anti-fungals. Rat studies indicate GV is only carcenogenic if injested daily in large amounts. (Newman & Pitman, 2006, p.118) It stains clothing purple."

For mom: "Dip Cotton Swab in .05% or 1% solution and swab nipple/areola once or twice a day for 3 to 7 day. Stop after 4 days if pain is gone. It stains clothing purple. It can be used in combination with other antifungals."

Re: Is BF at 7 wks possible?

Since the next LLL meeting here isn't until after the New Year, I thought I'd ask here ...

He's been doing better lately, in terms of wanting the boob -- in fact, a few nights ago when he was sluggish all night I offered him a breast every 45 minutes for practice ... but he never truly empties them out. He'll fall asleep after 10 minutes and no matter how much I try to offer the breast to him again, he won't take it. Sometimes he'll completely ignore the other boob that I don't give to him. (I alternate every time with which I present first to help with any milk retaining problems, etc.) He's naked every time I feed him, and no matter how much I stroke, talk, raspberry or what have you, he will not wake up! Also, since the first night of amazingness (yes, it was amazing even though I devoted nearly 6 hours to offering him my boob every 45 minutes), his latches have -sucked-. I mean, ROYALLY sucked. If I try to put him into any position other than cross-cradle he pitches the biggest, meanest fit - he screams, claws, cries, wails, kicks ... and I really don't know how to pacify him. Any suggestions?

I'm trying. I really am! Nearly 3 months of exclusive pumping and trying to put this baby on my boob. I'm not giving up now.

Re: Is BF at 7 wks possible?

And it sounds like you are making progress! It's Ok if he only nurses for 10 minutes. Babies are more efficient than a pump, and be might fill up in 10 minutes and it is very common for babes to develop a position preference. And that is OK too.

I'd be thinking about weaning off the pump and seeing if he nurses enough myself

He passes out because mama milk from the tap has hormones in it that are not present to the same extent in pumped milk.

Re: Is BF at 7 wks possible?

Ah, okay. Usually he sucks super strong for the first like ... 7 minutes, then he'll lay there, half conscious, with a boob in his mouth for another 7-8; though sometimes I can manage to coax him to wakefulness enough to feed strongly for another 1-3 minutes.

So, it's -okay- if I feel like I still have a bit in me, and if a little bit comes out if I pinch my nipples? I'm not so worried about mastitis, as it really hasn't happened yet ... I was just more concerned about him getting the proper amount of food/hindmilk. I guess if he's only nursing for x amount of minutes, though, my body will adjust, yeah?

I only just pumped this morning due to the fact that he wouldn't take my other boob and good God it was full from sleeping ~4 hours. It was getting uncomfortable.