It's a two way street. Don't treat the opposite sex like sexual objects, and don't act/dress like a sexual object._________________
Where sky and water meet,
Where the waves grow sweet,
Doubt not, Reepicheep,
To find all you seek,
There is the utter east.

Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:32 pm

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Salaris VornModerator

Joined: 02 Feb 2008Posts: 2264Location: New York, USA

Caedus_16 wrote:

I've been both thanked and condemned for stepping in when I see it happening, but I'll always step in.

Would I be reading you correctly if I take this to mean that the women condemned you for standing up for them in such situations?_________________

Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:24 am

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Caedus_16Master

Joined: 15 Apr 2008Posts: 4770Location: Korriban

Salaris Vorn wrote:

Caedus_16 wrote:

I've been both thanked and condemned for stepping in when I see it happening, but I'll always step in.

Would I be reading you correctly if I take this to mean that the women condemned you for standing up for them in such situations?

Yep._________________Perfection is a lifelong pursuit requiring sacrifice. The only way to get it quicker is to sacrifice the most.

Re: Is This Sexist?

Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 6:30 pm

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DancelittleewokEUC Staff

Joined: 15 Sep 2010Posts: 1171Location: Kansas

illogicalRogue2 wrote:

I mean he's just being male. Males tend to have sex on their mind a lot. This is a fact of our gender. I doubt he'd ever do something like that to the women. Sure on twitter it's easy to say it. To your friends were they can't hear you. But to do it in front of the woman that's changing it. You can say and do anything in ones mind- it's when we take it tot he person that it becomes offensive, but I doubt that there was anything meant against the women in the comments- if anything it's more his way of saying very much approved.

By posting publicly on Twitter, Simon Pegg opened himself up to ANY sort of feedback he might receive, including criticism from some of his women followers. I understand that guys are more visually stimulated. As a girl, I'll never be truly able to understand how distracting that can be. But he did have a choice here. His gender didn't make him do it._________________Observation: Life would be cooler if everyone spoke like HK-47.

I mean he's just being male. Males tend to have sex on their mind a lot. This is a fact of our gender. I doubt he'd ever do something like that to the women. Sure on twitter it's easy to say it. To your friends were they can't hear you. But to do it in front of the woman that's changing it. You can say and do anything in ones mind- it's when we take it tot he person that it becomes offensive, but I doubt that there was anything meant against the women in the comments- if anything it's more his way of saying very much approved.

By posting publicly on Twitter, Simon Pegg opened himself up to ANY sort of feedback he might receive, including criticism from some of his women followers. I understand that guys are more visually stimulated. As a girl, I'll never be truly able to understand how distracting that can be. But he did have a choice here. His gender didn't make him do it.

See for me- I just see it as a case of his real personality getting out. This is him now- love him, hate him, or accept him. Or label him as some would rather do. Heck everyone's said things without thinking as to what the public would think- but then there are a contingent of people who just don't care what the public thinks and march to the beat of their own drum. I like those people.

Also: what is the definition of Sexist?

I mean I find a bunch of conflicting ones.

-involving sexism and the belief that men and women should be treated in a different way
-A person who behaves in a sexist manner. (isn't that one a loop hole?- how does one define a sexist as a Sexist? WTF?)
-Unfairly discriminatory against one sex in favour of the other; in particular, treating women less favourably than men.

Robert and Jessica both lost all respect for their father when they found him to be sexist.

sex·ism (skszm)
n.
1. Discrimination based on gender, especially discrimination against women.
2. Attitudes, conditions, or behaviors that promote stereotyping of social roles based on gender.
-Noun 1. sexist - a man with a chauvinistic belief in the inferiority of womensexist - a man with a chauvinistic belief in the inferiority of women

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Ok- so Maybe I'm missing the "right" definition of the word here- but I'd say- based on the definition NO- Simon Pegg wasn't being sexist. being a pig maybe- most likely so, but I'm having a hard time right now seeing it as Sexist. Even Sexism- I can't see. He didn't say anything NEGATIVE about the women. In fact he was very much approving. So the most I think I can say is he was being either crude, or just a pig. I use pig- cause that's what my mother would call him. My mother is and always has been big on the woman's rights movements and is all about empowering women.

Is what Simon did social acceptable? Mainstream- probably not. In some circles- I'd say yes, but as a rule I say no. (unless as a guy I'm alone with other guys and no woman will hear me being my pig like self by admitting that I find woman attractive. Especially the sexier dressed ones.

But I think in the end of the day it's people looking for something to be offended about. I don't see it as some great evil that Simon is oppressing these ladies. If anything I think it was his way of saying he very much liked what he saw- and then took it to the men's locker room lingo. (which as a rule men shouldn't do! lol)_________________-Bring on your thousands, one at a time or all in a rush. I don't give a damn. None shall pass.
-
-To become a Jedi, it is not the Force one must learn to control but oneself.
-
-Podcasts: Star Wars Beyond the Films, The Star Wars Report, & EUCast

Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:52 pm

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Mad WookKnight

Joined: 14 Apr 2011Posts: 464

Quote:

But I think in the end of the day it's people looking for something to be offended about.

This.

Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:26 pm

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Dog-Poop_WalkerMaster

Joined: 28 Jan 2012Posts: 1080Location: Of Puppets

Simon Pegg was not being sexist. George Lucas was._________________The absurd man thus catches sight of a burning and frigid, transparent and limited universe in which nothing is possible but everything is given, and beyond which all is collapse and nothingness. He can then decide to accept such a universe and draw from it his strength, his refusal to hope, and the unyielding evidence of a life without consolation.

Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:30 pm

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Taral-DLOSMaster

Joined: 23 Nov 2010Posts: 1743Location: Ontario, Canada

I disagree. The whole Slave Leia thing was about empowerment. Despite being degraded, she was still strong as ever. Used the symbol of her degradation (the chain) as her weapon of freedom.

I think Taral had what Lucas was going for right, but you're right in that he created a sexist symbol. Perhaps unwittingly but it is what it has become._________________Perfection is a lifelong pursuit requiring sacrifice. The only way to get it quicker is to sacrifice the most.

Re: Is This Sexist?

Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:45 pm

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DancelittleewokEUC Staff

Joined: 15 Sep 2010Posts: 1171Location: Kansas

illogicalRogue2 wrote:

Ok- so Maybe I'm missing the "right" definition of the word here- but I'd say- based on the definition NO- Simon Pegg wasn't being sexist. being a pig maybe- most likely so, but I'm having a hard time right now seeing it as Sexist. Even Sexism- I can't see. He didn't say anything NEGATIVE about the women. In fact he was very much approving. So the most I think I can say is he was being either crude, or just a pig. I use pig- cause that's what my mother would call him. My mother is and always has been big on the woman's rights movements and is all about empowering women.

You don't see how other women might be offended when a guy acts piggish and crude towards women? Pegg didn't have to say anything negative per se. It's about respect.

Quote:

Is what Simon did social acceptable? Mainstream- probably not. In some circles- I'd say yes, but as a rule I say no. (unless as a guy I'm alone with other guys and no woman will hear me being my pig like self by admitting that I find woman attractive. Especially the sexier dressed ones.

There's nothing wrong with finding another person attractive. It's how you go about doing it. Even you admit Pegg's behavior isn't socially acceptable. So why can't other women be offended by his piggish, socially unacceptable, and crude behavior?_________________Observation: Life would be cooler if everyone spoke like HK-47.

Last edited by Dancelittleewok on Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:54 am; edited 1 time in total

Re: Is This Sexist?

Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:04 pm

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Caedus_16Master

Joined: 15 Apr 2008Posts: 4770Location: Korriban

Dancelittleewok wrote:

There's nothing wrong with finding another person attractive. It's how you go about doing it. Even you admit Pegg's behavior isn't socially acceptable. So why can't other women be offended by his piggish, socially unacceptable, and crude behavior?

They have every right to get offended. It goes both ways though. Lately my guy friends and I have felt mega self-conscious. Its hard to feel worth anything when you go out with the girls and they spend the whole time drooling over marines and a Channing Tatum look-alike. We aren't overweight or unattractive, but it gives us a ridiculous standard to live up to and it makes us self-conscious. Anymore I get just as much piggish, crude nonsense from women as I hear from men. But one gets in more trouble than the others and its a double standard. I'm not defending Pegg at all, I'm just wishing that the pendulum swung both ways._________________Perfection is a lifelong pursuit requiring sacrifice. The only way to get it quicker is to sacrifice the most.

Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:36 am

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Dog-Poop_WalkerMaster

Joined: 28 Jan 2012Posts: 1080Location: Of Puppets

Taral-DLOS wrote:

I disagree. The whole Slave Leia thing was about empowerment. Despite being degraded, she was still strong as ever. Used the symbol of her degradation (the chain) as her weapon of freedom.

I think.

I guess, but that's an issue that I have a lot in male media portrayal of women. Why is it necessary to objectify a woman first before showing her overcoming it? Is that the only way to empower her?

Leia was already shown to be a great leader and a great fighter, intelligent and strategic, compassionate and a devoted friend, brave and still capable of vulnerability. So yeah, it kinda sucks that the most memorable portrayal of her is in chains and a bikini.

Having a woman confident enough to express her own sexuality is way more empowering. I'd like to hope that is what some of the women who dress up in that Leia costume are getting across. I also know that it can be difficult for a man to write a woman that way, so he goes with what he knows and it's intentions are in the right place but it comes short of the mark.

People have the right to express, if they choose, what their sexuality means to them. It's their body and it's their identity. Other people don't have the right to project their sexuality onto others or make assumptions about what it means to them.

I think that is what the issue is here. It's not that men find sexually charged images to be attractive... it's that men are dictating what role sexuality has for women. In other words it's about seeing a slave Leia costume, or any attractive and sexy woman, as doing it simply for male attention and feeling entitled to comment on that._________________The absurd man thus catches sight of a burning and frigid, transparent and limited universe in which nothing is possible but everything is given, and beyond which all is collapse and nothingness. He can then decide to accept such a universe and draw from it his strength, his refusal to hope, and the unyielding evidence of a life without consolation.

Ok- so Maybe I'm missing the "right" definition of the word here- but I'd say- based on the definition NO- Simon Pegg wasn't being sexist. being a pig maybe- most likely so, but I'm having a hard time right now seeing it as Sexist. Even Sexism- I can't see. He didn't say anything NEGATIVE about the women. In fact he was very much approving. So the most I think I can say is he was being either crude, or just a pig. I use pig- cause that's what my mother would call him. My mother is and always has been big on the woman's rights movements and is all about empowering women.

You don't see how other women might be offended when a guy acts piggish and crude towards women? Pigg didn't have say anything negative per se. It's about respect.

Well when I said this I was meaning under the definition of the word. No where does being piggish and crude fall under the definitions that I found. For me it's more a matter of this- if one has issue with Pegg's posts to twitter- then they shouldn't be following him. Or if they find it offensive (which is their right; just as I have the right to find their finding him offensive- in and of itself- offensive.) (not that I do; I just have that right as well.) and liked who he was before that post then they should consider how offended they are- is it enough to unfollow? (granted this doesn't stop retweets- but you can always unfollow re tweeters too. If one was so offended by said piggishness.)

Some might say respect is earned. (I'm not in this case- just pointing out) I'm betting Pegg didn't know any of the individuals- which is where the missed humor came in. It's never as funny when it hits closer to home. I get how women can be upset by it. But to the point of this thread- and after looking at different definitions of the word Sexist as well as Sexism I don't think PER DEFINITION at any rate that he is being what he is accused of. Did he sexualize them= absolutely. Do I find it wrong? 100% Would I post somthing similar- not on twitter. And if I did it'd only be to a group of people that I KNOW wouldn't find it offensive- they would find it either amusing, or appreciate the picture.

I'm not trying to condone the behavior, but I do sort of get irked when women think men can't act like men anymore because they don't like it/ appreciate it, and would rather the men weren't like that.

Growing up most of the guys who didn't to some degree think similar things about lades ended up being gay, or single their whole lives. There is a drive for most men that while a lot of us can control it and keep it private is there. And it's that sense that it's wrong that we have the impulses feels wrong. I'm wired the way I am. (If that makes sense)

But yes, twitter wasn't the BEST way to share that thought. At least with Facebook you have options to who sees the post to a degree. So if one felt moved to make a comment that might upset a good chunk of their followers they can still be themselves without upsetting everyone.

But at the end of the day- you don't know who will be offended by what until they are.

Dancelittleewok wrote:

There's nothing wrong with finding another person attractive. It's how you go about doing it. Even you admit Pegg's behavior isn't socially acceptable. So why can't other women be offended by his piggish, socially unacceptable, and crude behavior?

Oh they can be. Caedus's post was well said. I'm not saying one "can't be offended" it's just that when people get offended it is usually followed by a law or rule that limits the OTHER person's rights in the name of keeping peace. Not always. but what seems like more often than not.

And I still admit= there could very well be a better definition of the word than the ones I posted above- but I couldn't find them last night._________________-Bring on your thousands, one at a time or all in a rush. I don't give a damn. None shall pass.
-
-To become a Jedi, it is not the Force one must learn to control but oneself.
-
-Podcasts: Star Wars Beyond the Films, The Star Wars Report, & EUCast

Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:21 am

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ReepicheepMaster

Joined: 05 Feb 2008Posts: 6957Location: Sailing into the unknown

Taral-DLOS wrote:

I disagree. The whole Slave Leia thing was about empowerment. Despite being degraded, she was still strong as ever. Used the symbol of her degradation (the chain) as her weapon of freedom.

I think.

Yes, and no. I see what you're saying, but the portrayal of women is possibly my biggest gripe with Star Wars. The comics are by far the worst. You could look at the slavery motif as being about empowerment (when it is overcome) or about social justice or you could look at it as mild porn. And honestly, I do.

I question whether the writers are more concerned with the themes connected to slavery or the opportunity for sexy visuals. Many plots in the comics (notice the prevalence of slavery in comics, the visual medium, and not novels) seem like contrived ways to get female leads in revealing outfits. The Quinlan Vos/Aayla Secura arc in Republic actually made me angry for it's absurdity.

I thought of Leia as a strong character well before I saw her beat enslavement and choke Jabba in a metal bikini._________________
Where sky and water meet,
Where the waves grow sweet,
Doubt not, Reepicheep,
To find all you seek,
There is the utter east.