In my history class, we are studying the early middle ages. Well, today i was reading about marriage. In the catholic church (arguably the originator of christianity) there are things called "sacraments". Sacraments are "rituals". some required, in order to become closer to the divine. Well, it turns out during reformation the the 11th-13th century it was decided that priests should marry people and it should become a sacrament. However, this was even then disputed. Hugh of St. Victor , a 12th century scholar wrote:

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"Can you find anything else in marriage except conjugal society which makes it sacred and by which you can assert that it is holy?...Each shall be to the other as a same self in all sincere love, all careful solitude, every kindness of affection, in constant compassion, unflagging consolation, and faithful devotedness."

Hugh saw marriage as a matter of love. So, history once again reveals to us that perhaps god isnt the source of the validity of marriage, but people are. Love is. So, using this argument, can we say the "sacred" argument is moot if marriage wasn't originally sacred?

_________________"To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, is like administering medicine to the dead." -- THOMAS PAINE

i'm ganna say that it depends on the belief system of the idividuals who are in thier own situation, be it married or not.

in this nation we still have the guaranteed protection of the freedom to worship as we please. there are those on the extreme right who are fighting night and day and by whatever means are neccassary to remove those freedoms altogether. they portend to do so under the thinly guised viel that it's what god would have them to do. that's complete and utter garbage.

for me, personally, it's sacred based on my own personal beliefs. for others who have differing religious views than mine i can see thier view as being just as credible.

that's one of the things i love about this nation still, this freedom thing.

Once again, I agree with you. The freedom part is the most important part. The absolute most important part.

That is why I am against these Republican neo cons. They want to take your freedoms away. And, they have done so already. If they have taken these freedoms that we know about, then what other freedoms would they want to take away from us?

As for the issue of love and marriage and the connection to religion. One of our famous politicians stated:
" The state has no business in the bedroom of the people "

I would add that the religious authorites have no business in our bedrooms or our minds.

It is all about control. And, that is why I am generally against religion, any religion which aims to contol my life, without my consent. That is not freedom. It is something else entirely.

_________________My life is full of optimism and I am not going to stop living until I know the answers to all of the important things, like why does love exist.

I would add that the religious authorities have no business in our bedrooms or our minds.

That is of course your opinion. For those that believe and practice religion it is far from the truth. You agree with Rooster and then make that statement.

Religious teaching plays a important part in some people's lives. If they choose to allow religion to decide what they do in the bedroom or how it effects their lives, that is their business not yours nor mine. When they attempt to take that and try to make other people believe as they do then it becomes our problem.

Religious teaching plays a important part in some people's lives. If they choose to allow religion to decide what they do in the bedroom or how it effects their lives, that is their business not yours nor mine. When they attempt to take that and try to make other people believe as they do then it becomes our problem

That's the point.

_________________"I may detest what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." -Voltaire

So, history once again reveals to us that perhaps god isnt the source of the validity of marriage, but people are. Love is. So, using this argument, can we say the "sacred" argument is moot if marriage wasn't originally sacred?

That was the question.

Quote:

I would add that the religious authorites have no business in our bedrooms or our minds.

That was a response. What do you or for that matter anybody care what religion tells it's memebers to do?

Quote:

It is all about control. And, that is why I am generally against religion, any religion which aims to contol my life, without my consent. That is not freedom. It is something else entirely

If you are against any religion why worry about what it says to it's members?

and the point being what exactly? It was asked if marriage was sacred? To some people it is and to others it is not. You obviously believe a point was made. I fail to see that point.

My point was that when religious people "attempt to take that and try to make other people believe as they do," then it's not just about what churches tell their members to do. It's about control of everyone.

If people who aren't religious shouldn't care what rules religious people "follow," why should religious people care what non-religious people do?
You can't honestly tell me that religious people don't judge non-religious for stuff like, I dunno, sex before marriage. That's their business in the bedroom.

_________________"I may detest what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." -Voltaire

Well, I guess that's why someone came up with the idea of the separation of church and state. To keep the ideas separate. To keep conflict down to a dull roar, so to speak. Like a fence, something physical, except in the ideas department thoughts about religion and morals,etc should not be forced upon others.

Consider for example the Christian view that says people who are not married are living in sin. That is an opinion only. But, marriage as an institution is undoubtedly influenced by religion. The option of course is the marriage by a magistrate or something. I do not know if the word god is invoked in this ceremony though. If it was or is then it would deny the effect of the civil marriage. People need these kinds of options to feel free; to be free from state tyranny, because that is what it would be if you were forced to be married in a church. I don't think modern day evangelicals or other serious religious types appreciate the views of the secular population. They don't understand that god does not exist for them.

_________________My life is full of optimism and I am not going to stop living until I know the answers to all of the important things, like why does love exist.

doesn't that depend on your own viewpoint of marriage? 90% of people get married in church, by a priest or minister.....why? by doing so, you have already invited religion into your bedroom and personal marriage.

we got married by a justice of the peace in key west florida and had two cubans as witnesses who couldn't even speak english. that was many years ago. still married today, but at least i didn't start off with religion already in my marriage. and, i'm still just as legally married as anyone else, just maybe not in the eyes of the catholic church (as if we really care about that)

so, for those of you who have said "i do" in front of a priest and in a church, stop complaining because you've already allowed religion into your marriage.

so, for those of you who have said "i do" in front of a priest and in a church, stop complaining because you've already allowed religion into your marriage

exactly the point. If you believe in the religion and were married in a church or a minister then you are following what you believe. I was married in a church with my first marriage and it ended in divorce. I was married in a American Embassy with the second one and it ended in divorce. My wife and I were married in our backyard overlooking the river, with music playing, our friends and family around us and a justice of the peace. We wrote our own words and are still happy after 12 years.

If you believe in relgion and it works for you then don't complain about it. If you don't believe then why let it bother you. If you are living with someone and practice religion and that religion says you are living in sin, then that is between you and your God, if you are living with someone and do not practice religion what does it matter what others think?

I live my life as I see fit, not as others want me to. As long as I am happy, my family is happy that is all that matters. I could care less what my next door neighbor things of me.