cannabisnews.com: MJ Legalization? A White House Rebuttal, Finally
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MJ Legalization? A White House Rebuttal, Finally
Posted by CN Staff on March 12, 2010 at 18:34:24 PT
By The Monitor's Editorial Board
Source: Christian Science Monitor
Washington, D.C. -- The Obama White House has finally laid out its most thorough, reasoned rebuttal to arguments for marijuana legalization – countering a campaign that is gaining alarming momentum at the state level.The president’s tough position was delivered in early March by his “drug czar,” Gil Kerlikowske, in a private talk before police chiefs in California – which is ground zero for this debate.
“Marijuana legalization – for any purpose – is a nonstarter in the Obama administration,” said Mr. Kerlikowske, a former police chief himself.It’s almost certain that California voters will be asked in a November ballot initiative whether to allow local governments to regulate and tax marijuana (similar to taxes on sales of alcohol). Other states are considering similar proposals, which are really a backdoor way to legalize pot.Thirteen states have decriminalized the use or possession of small amounts of marijuana, which is not the same as legalizing it. Selling it is still illegal except in states where it is used for medical purposes. And under federal law, any sort of marijuana use or sale is a criminal offense.The drug czar’s remarks are worth notice for two reasons. First, they provide needed talking points for those who oppose legalization but who can’t seem to make their message resonate in the face of a well-financed, well-organized pro-marijuana effort. Second, they help clear up confusion about the White House policy on legalization.When Attorney General Eric Holder announced last year that US law enforcement officials would neither raid nor prosecute medical marijuana dispensaries or those using them, states got mixed signals. Mr. Holder explained it as a matter of the best use of scarce federal law enforcement resources, which he didn’t want to expend in the now 14 states that have approved some use of medical marijuana.But “a lot of people believe the administration is somewhat in favor of the decriminalization of marijuana,” says Scott Kirkland, police chief for El Cerrito, in the San Francisco Bay area. In California, the public, city council members, city managers, even police chiefs have “misinterpreted” the administration’s position, says Mr. Kirkland, the spokesman for marijuana issues for the California Police Chiefs Association.The drug czar couldn’t have been more plain. On medical marijuana, which has strong public backing in opinion polls, the former Seattle police chief said that “science should determine what a medicine is, not popular vote.” As Kerlikowske pointed out, marijuana is harmful – and he has the studies to back it up. Legalization supporters argue that no one has ever died from an overdose of this “soft” drug. But here’s what “science” has found so far: Smoking marijuana can result in dependence on the drug.More than 30 percent of people who are 18 and over and who used marijuana in the past year are either dependent on the drug or abuse it – that is, they use it repeatedly under hazardous conditions or are imparied when they’re supposed to be interacting with others, such as at work. This is according to a 2004 study in the Journal of the American Medical Association.Pot is also associated with poor motor skills, cognitive impairment (i.e., affecting the ability to think, reason, and process information), and respiratory and mental illness.The recent “Pentagon shooter,” John Patrick Bedell, was a heavy marijuana user. The disturbed young man’s psychiatrist told the Associated Press that marijuana made the symptoms of his mental illness more pronounced. Mr. Bedell’s brother, Jeffrey, told The Washington Post that marijuana made his brother’s thinking “more disordered” and that he had implored him to stop smoking pot, to no avail.Kerlikowske also effectively knocked down the argument that regulating and taxing marijuana is a great way for states to make money in these deficit-dreary times. Indeed, NORML, the lead group in the legalization movement, is set to launch a digital ad campaign in Manhattan’s Times Square next week: “Money CAN grow on trees!”It’s a claim that’s too good to be true, just as the exclamation point implies. Look at the nation’s experience with regulated alcohol. America collects nearly $15 billion a year in federal and state taxes from alcohol. But Kerlikowske says that covers less than 10 percent of the “social costs” related to healthcare, lost productivity, and law enforcement. And what about lost lives? Let’s not add marijuana to the mix of regulated substances.“The costs of legalizing marijuana would outweigh any possible tax that could be levied,” Kerlikowske explains. In the United States, illegal drugs already cost an estimated $180 billion annually in social costs, according to the Office of National Drug Control Policy. That number would increase as marijuana became more widely and easily available.The Dutch – so often praised by marijuana advocates – have had to greatly ratchet back the number of legal marijuana outlets because of crime, nuisance, and increased pot usage among youth. Los Angeles, too, now sees the need to scale back the number of private dispensaries of medical marijuana. Many California towns have looked at L.A. and are saying “no” to dispensaries.The California Board of Equalization, which administers the state’s sales tax, estimates $1.4 billion of potential revenue from a marijuana tax. Found money? Its reasoning is based on either “a series of assumptions that are in some instances subject to tremendous uncertainty or in other cases not valid,” according to an independent study by the RAND Corporation.What’s too bad about the drug czar’s speech is that it was made behind closed doors at a venue not accessible to the press, then quietly put on the administration’s website. Given the confusion over the message, the White House needs to be far more outspoken about this.President Obama himself needs to get more involved than simply letting his drug czar reveal this critical stance below the radar. As a high-profile parent, he can help other parents who are struggling to prevent their children from going down the rabbit hole of drug use. If one message can resonate in this debate, it’s that America’s young people are most vulnerable to the threat of legalization.They are particularly sensitive to the price of pot (and prices will come down if pot is legalized). They’re the most influenced by societal norms (and public approval is growing). And they’re the ones most heavily engaged in studying and learning – a process that pot smoking can impair.Individuals who reach age 21 without using drugs are almost certain to never use them. But according to a study by a leading source on young people and drugs, Monitoring the Future, marijuana use among teens has increased in recent years, after a decade of decline. Teens perceive less risk in use – not surprising when states approve of it as medicine. Risk perception greatly influences drug use among young people.The risks of marijuana – and the wisdom of knowing that joy and satisfaction are not found in a drug – are lessons that Mr. Obama could effectively teach the nation. But even so, it can’t stop there.The momentum, for now, is with those who want to legalize marijuana. They have been generously financed by a few billionaires, including George Soros, and make strategic use of the Internet and media.It will take clear-thinking parents, teachers, local officials, faith leaders, and law enforcement officers to convincingly articulate why the march to legalization must be stopped. They can, if they use the kinds of reasonable and fact-based arguments that the nation’s drug czar has just laid out.Source: Christian Science Monitor (US)Published: March 12, 2010 Copyright: 2010 The Christian Science Publishing SocietyContact: oped csps.comWebsite: http://www.csmonitor.com/ URL: http://drugsense.org/url/IlylTuNaCannabisNews -- Cannabis Archiveshttp://cannabisnews.com/news/list/Cannabis.shtml
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Comment #94 posted by FoM on March 17, 2010 at 15:36:25 PT
afterburner
Thank you. I am watching Michael Moore right now on CNN. I look forward to seeing his new movie and I will check out the other one you posted.
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Comment #93 posted by afterburner on March 17, 2010 at 13:54:47 PT
FoM #87
Here are two dvds I saw recently that may help in your thinking about capitalism:Capitalism: A Love Story (2009)
http://www.capitalismalovestory.com/TRAILER: Michael Moore's 'Capitalism: A Love Story' - On DVD March 9th
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhydyxRjujUBurning the Future: Coal in America (2008)
http://www.burningthefuture.org/show.asp?content_id=14089Burning The Future: Coal in America - Trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQPYKD4WGew
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Comment #92 posted by rchandar on March 15, 2010 at 11:08:24 PT:
Hope
Osama bin Laden claims he's drug-free, and against drug use. Surprising, eh? Can't really fathom al-Qaeda and Taliban fighters not benefiting from narcotrafficking, though. Yet that's what the wiki article claims: our turbaned hero was fed up with drugs, and wanted to purify Islam of its corrupting influences.Yet, what is true remains so abundantly: the terrorists would be against legalization because it would give people more rights and leeway. One of the key facets of terrorism was to shock and frighten people into abandoning ideas like freedom and democracy. What with eight years of Dubya, it might have worked, no?
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Comment #91 posted by rchandar on March 15, 2010 at 11:04:37 PT:
Hemp World
They're always going to be criticized, though. It's a remarkable country--a first glance at how wonderful a truly modern world could be. Living among them was always pleasant--a reminder that the legitimate rules and expectations we make through modern ideas could actually work. A number of EU states have passed "decrim" measures--Holland remains alone in allowing selling. I somehow doubt that's going to change because why? You live in Poland, Bulgaria, Spain? A train ticket and seven hours of your time is enough to get you to where you can do whatever you want. --rchandar
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Comment #90 posted by Hope on March 15, 2010 at 10:55:15 PT
Over on Pete's couch...
On this thread they got to talking about the President and legalization and there were some interesting comments, of course... but I really thought this was a thoughtful and smart comment from Pete.http://www.drugwarrant.com/2010/03/where-will-you-be-in-35-years/#comments"Actually, I can pretty much guarantee that NO President will legalize marijuana. Not only do they not have the political will by definition, but they don’t even have the legal power. (Even if “legal” at the federal level, it’s still mostly illegal in every state.)What will happen is that enough states will assert themselves for financial and other reasons, that Congress will eventually pass a bill that specifically avoids words like “legalize,” but that changes federal authority to be that of assisting the states in enforcing their laws related to marijuana. That will give the states the go-ahead to legalize and regulate. After a significant number of states have done so, Congress will step back in and start legislating national regulations, like age of use, etc. The President will never be directly involved because all Congressional bills on the subject will be buried inside massive appropriation bills."
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Comment #89 posted by dongenero on March 15, 2010 at 09:49:39 PT
Christian Science Monitor
Yea, they apparently thought better of putting a comment forum up for this BS article. Christian? Science? Bah!Next stop? The White House web site to try and find the "official" drivel. You're losing me with this O.
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Comment #88 posted by FoM on March 15, 2010 at 05:01:09 PT
The GCW
You said: I believe if the US RE-legalized just cannabis there would be great change. The drug related war in Mexico would / may continue but on a much smaller scale.***I agree with you.
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Comment #87 posted by FoM on March 15, 2010 at 04:52:05 PT
Hope and John Tylor
Making a profit is a good thing if you own a business. My problem is there were laws against loan sharks. I think there is a fair profit on a product or service and then there is profit that becomes immoral. I read they have a credit card for people who can't really afford a credit card that is over 70% interest. With no regulations to protect consumers how will many people survive? When I saw families being encouraged to have both parents working I thought about doesn't a mother have any value anymore? I also thought if you lean on two salaries and one person gets sick you will be in a mess very quickly.
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Comment #86 posted by The GCW on March 14, 2010 at 23:47:38 PT
PRAYER for the interest of other's
In fact, that’s one of the best things citizens in California could do right now, in trying to RE-legalize cannabis. Instead of the headliner; legalize to tax and gain revenue… make the headliner; legalize to end the senseless killings in Mexico. That would hit a note with non cannabis minded people who are just sick of all the wars; the senseless killing.That would incur a big move toward doing something for other people which would be a huge thing in the spiritually minded department.-0-I’ve learned a lot from My Father about cannabis by praying for it. Praying not only to be shown the truth but be shown the truth so clearly so that I can share it with other people. For years, I’ve been shown the truth about cannabis and I’ve shared it. I believe sharing it is a key in receiving what I’ve asked for. For the benefit of others. I already knew the truth but for the benefit of other people My Father has shown Me more truth than I ever imagined existed; all for the use of sharing, passing it on, for other people. Not for the self.California may be able to RE-legalize the superplant with out praying for it. However!!!Praying for it in a non self interest way would be to invite the spiritual realities to enter into the war. A way to RE-legalize cannabis in a non self interest way would be to stake a claim to helping end the violence in Mexico.And wouldn't it bring respect from around the world, publicity, support from non cannabis friendly types, and expose government as the problem!The Green Collar Worker
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Comment #85 posted by The GCW on March 14, 2010 at 23:19:39 PT
EAH,
"If we legalize only cannabis, they would keep on fighting over the other drugs."I believe if the US RE-legalized just cannabis there would be great change. The drug related war in Mexico would / may continue but on a much smaller scale.Many more people use cannabis and support changing cannabis laws. The present prohibition of cannabis increases hard drug addiction rates and if cannabis were RE-legalized the hard drug addiction rates would decrease. That would mean less demand for hard drugs. -So many factors of cannabis prohibition increase hard drug addiction rates that would be eliminated. -the way We teach Our children would include the truth, which alone would go far to protecting youth from hard drug addiction which doesn't exist today. Separating cannabis from people who sell white powders etc. would lower hard drug addiction. On and on...People not only tolerate drugs because the lot includes cannabis, drugs are even considered hip and cool because cannabis is associated with them. Once cannabis is treated as a plant and isn't associated with honest drugs. The tolerance and acceptance of honest drugs will go way down.Once cannabis is RE-legalized there may be less people turning a blind eye toward hard drugs too. Plus a significant portion of the Mexican trafficer's profits come from cannabis. Some estemates indicate 40 -60%, which would be quite a blow to their business.Then there is the acceptable notion of getting envolved with cannabis that would diminish with hard drugs. Some people would continue dealing in hard drugs but cannabis being a "soft" drug attracts people that may leave that style of business if cannabis gets regulated.Don't forget there are some people that traffic and or grow cannabis that would become part of the regulated environment and would no longer be part of the illegal environment.There seems to be good reason to believe the violence in Mexico would decrease considerably with RE-legalizing just cannabis.Poor Mexico. Things can only get worse, unless California RE-legalizes the plant and other states follow suit.In California, part of the logic used to RE-legalize the accepted plant is because it will bring much needed tax money. Part of the reason which gets heard through out California and indeed the entire North American continent should be because doing so will lower the rates of violence experienced in Mexico.Then the reason to do something is not just due to self interest but for the interest of other's. And doing something for Mexico which helps Us is a win win win...It's shocking that thousands of people are murdered and killed near the Mexican border yearly mostly due to the U.S. cannabis laws. Call it a war on drugs but really it's the war on cannabis. It's war. The funny thing about war seems to be that the ones who declare it don't have to pay the price for it. It would be better for the ones who declare wars were the first ones to die -because the declaration of wars would go way down. WOULDN'T IT?Imagine if the Reagan's declared a war on drugs and in so doing would have to put their entire family in front of everyone else in order to pay the ultimate price first. That war would be over a long time ago. NO! IT WOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN EVEN STARTED!!! Who the heck would ever start a war then, if they had to pay the actual cost in lives / price? NOBODY!Hear the monkey tell His whole family, pack up everyone, We're going to Pakistan and then Iraq to fight a war I'm starting? Never would have happened.
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Comment #84 posted by Hope on March 14, 2010 at 23:04:23 PT
EAH Comment 81
"If we legalize only cannabis, they would keep on fighting over the other drugs."Losing seventy percent of their overall profit, which comes from cannabis smuggling, would surely insure a dramatic decrease in the amount of cash they have to pay their many, many hired killers. Most hired killers, I would think, do it with the expectation of some form of compensation, probably money or/and valuables, from someone, for carrying out their violent and despicable deeds. I'm sure they don't do it for free.Weed's been finding it's way up from Mexico, over, under, and through many, many routes, for a very long time now. Although someone might prefer Canadian weed... they're more likely to find Mexican out and about, or even USA Homegrown, than they are likely to find Canadian in most areas of the U.S., I expect.
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Comment #83 posted by Hope on March 14, 2010 at 22:49:29 PT
Comment 77
"When hasn't Capitalism been self serving?"True, it's about profit... but it has to be reasonable and fair profit or it's purely predatory.When a business or an inventor wants to provide a worthy and useful product for a reasonable profit, that's not just self serving. It provides a worthy service or product to the people that want it and can afford it, as a way of making a living.There is certainly nothing wrong with that. When it's a shoddy product or service and hurts or displeases the buyer and employees involved in it's production, more than helps or pleases them, and some few people get all the money and run ... then it's predatory.
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Comment #82 posted by Hope on March 14, 2010 at 22:41:17 PT
"While they're living it up on Wall Street....
Here in the real world, they're shutting Detroit down."http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_exPnlC3wpY&feature=related
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Comment #81 posted by EAH on March 14, 2010 at 22:29:01 PT:
FOM violence in Mexico
Mexico is a gateway to the US drug market for cocaine, meth, and heroin. It's not just cannabis. Mexico produces cannabis, meth and some heroin, but it just passes the coke along. So there has been lots of money and drug routes at stake between rival organizations. At first there was violence over turf and profits. Then the US pressured the government to use the military to fight the gangs because the police were so corrupt. So there are the battles for turf, the battles for leadership, the battles between the gangs and the military and the violence against reporters in order to silence the media.If there was no prohibition, there would be almost no reason for any of it.
If the US were to make and distribute all drugs cheaply, the cartels would collapse. If we legalize only cannabis, they would keep on fighting over the other drugs.
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Comment #80 posted by Hope on March 14, 2010 at 22:24:16 PT
John Tyler Comment 79
Well said, and true.
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Comment #79 posted by John Tyler on March 14, 2010 at 20:50:34 PT
re comment #62
If I could, I would like to expand on my earlier comments about capitalism to note that for the past 30 years, since the late 70’s, real take home wages for the vast majority of working people have remained flat. You probably seem to have a whole lot of money now in terms of absolute dollars, but notice too how prices have risen sharply over the same period. The number of dollars is not as important as how much those dollars will buy. The regular working folk’s wages have actually fallen by 20% some economist say. That 20% has gone to somebody else’s profits. This has dragged down everyone’s wages across the board. A couple of years back while cleaning out my late parent’s in law estate I found my father in laws old pay stubs from 1969. He had a high school education. He worked in a factory. He made $8,000 that a year. Sound pretty meager by today’s standards, but his house cost $7,000. A three bedroom Cape Code house in a nice part of town too. He had two cars, a Pontiac and a Chevrolet. Gasoline cost less than 25 cents a gallon. A nice new car cost less than $2,500. A week’s worth of groceries including pet food and cigarettes was way less than $20. Health insurance was provided by his employer and out of pocket cost were next to nothing. Social Security was a few dollars a month. He was doing really well. His buying power was equal to $80,000 today. He and his family could take vacations. He could retire. In 1969 my father, a high school graduate also, was an electrician. He worked at a shipyard. It was privately owned at that time. It was noted for its good paying jobs. My father earned $15,000 a year working there. That had the buying power of $150,000 a year today. Can people make that much money today doing factory work, any other work? By contrast, I’m a college graduate. I have been working for 40 years (30 of those in the IT field). The last 19 years I have had a part time job and I still haven’t reached the $80,000 level yet. I am working harder than ever. I will never be able to retire. A small part of the population is getting really rich at our expense. We are being told that we are not working hard enough, or spending too much, or borrowing too much, and that we have only ourselves to blame. I don’t think so. I think we have been undervalued, underpaid, and abused by corporate America and the financial industry for way too long. Now I’m going to sound like George Bailey, if you are working a full time job you should be able to afford food and shelter, medical care, and clothing for yourself and your family. People can call that anything they like, but I call it fair.
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Comment #78 posted by HempWorld on March 14, 2010 at 16:15:07 PT
"The Dutch – so often praised by marijuana advocat
es – have had to greatly ratchet back the number of legal marijuana outlets because of crime, nuisance, and increased pot usage among youth."Not true!These actions have been caused by 'international' (read American) pressure and because of a center-right christian gov't over there.There is no increased usage (except by tourists maybe), no nuisance and the only crime is from the suppliers which are still illegal according to law, so it's gov't created and hence they should not complain about it.Lies, lies, lies ...
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Comment #77 posted by FoM on March 14, 2010 at 15:57:54 PT
Hope
When hasn't Capitalism been self serving? I really can't recall a time. They pay the politicians and they do what they get kick backs for. That is so wrong. That's why they are fighting reform of health care so hard particularly on the right and those that are straddling the fence in the Dems. They call them Blue Dog Democrats.
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Comment #76 posted by FoM on March 14, 2010 at 15:48:06 PT
Hope
I'm sure there are people in Canada that are violent since violence happens anywhere but mostly they are good people. My sister loves their National Anthem and so do I. They take in people from all cultures and they really impress me in the Canadian list I have been on for years. They made fun of themselves in the closing ceremonies and Canada has shared the best actors and musicians with us in the states.Here's Neil again singing Long May You Run. I love the way they kept the camera on Neil not like the NBC tape. They kept shooting athletes and the one down hill lady that cried and thinks she is cool. I like this one way more if you haven't seen it.Neil Young, Golden Olympic Momenthttp://vimeo.com/9835551
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Comment #75 posted by Hope on March 14, 2010 at 15:34:57 PT
Capitalism
There is a really bad capitalism. Someone here once said it very well, when they used the term "Predatory capitalism". Predatory capitalism is hard to define, sometimes, but you know it when you see it... or the results of it.
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Comment #74 posted by Hope on March 14, 2010 at 15:29:02 PT
Comment 63
Why more violence in Mexico?What RChandar said and perhaps a more widespread genetic tendency to leave one's temper unleashed and to lash out violently, and deeply simmering anger bound with quick hatred and real bloodlust. Brutality. Of course all Mexicans are in no way violent and brutal. But it certainly seems too many are inclined to be. They like to think of it, I think, as being of a "Hot" or "Macho" temperament. It's brutality.Of course there is brutality and violence among Canadians, and certainly, all Canadians aren't of a more subtle temperament... but there seems to be something in the nature of some people that likes to let brute force and violence reign... completely unleashed... unrestrained, if possible... and there seems to be a lot of them in Mexico with enough money to hire their dirty desires done.
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Comment #73 posted by FoM on March 14, 2010 at 15:19:36 PT
OT: One Thing That's Wrong With Our Country
David Axelrod: Health Care Lobbyists Descending Like 'Locusts' On CongressMarch 14, 2010URL: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/14/david-axelrod-health-care_n_498290.html
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Comment #72 posted by FoM on March 14, 2010 at 15:14:18 PT
runruff
You said it all in one sentence. Good job and very simple and to the point.
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Comment #71 posted by Hope on March 14, 2010 at 15:10:22 PT
Grits for Breakfast
"New strategies needed to protect journalists in Mexican drug war"https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=8597101&postID=4174363864694309269
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Comment #70 posted by Hope on March 14, 2010 at 15:06:36 PT
Another good reason to legalize now.
Fearing Drug Cartels, Reporters in Mexico Retreathttp://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/14/world/americas/14mexico.html?src=meBut of course, the prohibitionist mindset runs to "The worse it is, the better it is."Idiotic? Of course. But what else can they say?
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Comment #69 posted by Hope on March 14, 2010 at 14:55:49 PT
Lol!
Of course... that's a bit transconvoluted... but you probably get the gist of what I meant to say.Too much, too fast, multi-tasking!
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Comment #68 posted by Hope on March 14, 2010 at 14:52:18 PT
Of course
smoking pot wants to make you commit suicide by attacking the Pentagon single handedly. That's why it happens so often.
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Comment #67 posted by rchandar on March 14, 2010 at 14:50:29 PT:
Mexico
There are lots of reasons. Only a few seem to count much: the lack of education, the poor economic infrastructure and extreme inequity, and the allure of tourist or smuggling dollars. Mexico is a lot better off than she was, but the payoff for smuggling MJ into the US has always been pretty good. A cotton farmer can't make that much, and a clothing sweatshop has exploitation problems including low or no pay. The social and community problems in Mexico are pretty deep: they arise from centuries of neglect and the lack of an economy that could, until recently, compete with the world."Drugs" are big business. That's the difference with Canada, which could easily survive without the drug trade. Then, with the absence of many "liberals" in political power, comes the silence and the labyrinth of threats and actions to keep people happy or at least keep them from opening their mouths for very long. Burroughs pitied Mexico while Kerouac loved and adored it. Anyways, if you think you can't make a bag of schwag interesting, you would only need to talk to some teenagers and I'm sure it's better than nothing.
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Comment #66 posted by konagold on March 14, 2010 at 14:45:52 PT
schedule two
this statemnt may be good news as the single most harmful blow to med-pot freedom would be the rescheduling to schedule two [sched. 3 OK tho]the Drug Czar's statements on cognition are very refutable through modern studiesanecdotal statements about the pentgon soldjure are like anecdotal statements about medical efficy if the later has no creditability neither does the former
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Comment #65 posted by runruff on March 14, 2010 at 14:14:19 PT
On capitalism;
Capitalism only works if socialism is there to bail it out!
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Comment #64 posted by FoM on March 14, 2010 at 13:59:01 PT
John Tyler
Thank you so much. I agree with you 100%.
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Comment #63 posted by FoM on March 14, 2010 at 13:53:29 PT
Hope
Something I really don't understand is why is there so much violence in Mexico? Canada has smuggled marijuana into the states and yet I don't see the violence. Maybe I'm wrong but people would prefer Canadian pot and I've heard people say in the past it's just Mexican pot. I am a non violent person and can really related to Canadians because most of them are polite and open minded. Some like Marc Emery are outspoken but he isn't violent. It really does confuse me.
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Comment #62 posted by John Tyler on March 14, 2010 at 13:42:52 PT
on Capitalism
Capitalism is an amoral economic system designed to return value to investors. It is kind of like fire. It can be used to cook your food and keep you warm or burn your house down. When it is under strict controls and is regulated it can work for the good of society. In the last 30 years a raw uncontrolled brand has been set loose by greedy interest and as it has gained power it has ravaged the population and wrecked finances around the world. The people that were supposed to be watching out for this were too blinded by their own greed to see what was happening and what the implications would be. So we are screwed and have to live through this mess other have made for us.
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Comment #61 posted by Hope on March 14, 2010 at 13:42:13 PT
Shooting At Juarez Memorial Kills 6
http://www.kfoxtv.com/news/22828340/detail.html
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Comment #60 posted by Hope on March 14, 2010 at 13:16:57 PT
Gunmen in Mexico kill 3 with US consulate ties
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5iUB98C2LldQqpcvX4hTDQ3gbzRzg
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Comment #59 posted by FoM on March 14, 2010 at 10:18:25 PT
The GCW
I can only imagine what the Republicans would do to him if he tried to legalize marijuana. Look how they have acted just over health care. Change will have to come from the bottom up not the top down. I feel sorry for people who are public and have seriously run ahead of the law.
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Comment #58 posted by The GCW on March 14, 2010 at 09:54:41 PT
Drug War budget destroys any myth of "Change"
The Obama Admin's Anti-Marijuana ManifestoCANNABIS CULTURE - In an attempt to clear up the Obama White House's seemingly vague position on marijuana prohibition, US Drug Czar Gil Kerlikowske has given a lengthy speech outlining why cannabis is Bad For America.Though it is being billed as the government's "most thorough, reasoned rebuttal to arguments for marijuana legalization" by boot-lickers in the US press, Kerlikowske's screed sounds like more hot air - the same old stale arguments that have been refuted time and again by drug policy critics.The Drug Czar's speech contains some laughable lines decrying cannabis' heinous effects on the "motor performance" of unsuspecting US citizens, and claims about pot users receiving "lower test scores and lower educational attainment", along with the standard boilerplate propaganda about dependence and respiratory problems.Some thought Obama's team was lightening-up on the marijuana issue, with Attorney General Eric Holder's announcement that raids on medical marijuana dispensaries would stop. Turns out, they weren't. One look at Obama's Drug War budget destroys any myth of "Change".The Obama administration obviously hasn't been listening to his fellow Americans, who just pushed the marijuana issue to #1 on Change.org's Idea's For Change in America. Don't hold your breath for a response from the Prez.CONT. http://www.cannabisculture.com/v2/content/2010/03/13/Obama-Admins-Anti-Marijuana-Manifesto
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Comment #57 posted by Hope on March 14, 2010 at 09:21:23 PT
The Children
We need commercials showing how they protect our children.Alberto Sepulveda and Charity Bowers come to mind as just two of the children they "Protected" with their demented policies.Dangerous and idiotic prohibitionists.
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Comment #56 posted by Hope on March 14, 2010 at 07:56:13 PT
MikeEEEEE
Good to see you.I think we have the keys to any door... Truth.I think you're right about the so called front door they are guarding with all their jealously, rank, and might, and I think they also are good at building fake front doors, diversionary, and secret, invisible to the public, front doors that they assemble to let in what they want and quickly dismantle before anyone else can use it, not to even mention their movable front door and their trick front door.
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Comment #55 posted by FoM on March 14, 2010 at 07:17:09 PT
afterburner
Thank you. That one did load.
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Comment #54 posted by ezrydn on March 14, 2010 at 07:05:18 PT:
On "The Children"
We hear so much of that from the other side. So, here's something you can inject into the conversation: With all this care about the children of the land, why is it that there isn't enough money to pay decent teachers for the children? Why is it that there isn't enough money to renovate and/or construct classrooms for the children? And in a story that ran this last week, there's not enough money to provide yellow school busses to children. Why? We know there's more than enough money to throw at the DrugWar. So, you're protecting the children by spending their educational assets on your local DrugWar activities. Doing so, you keep the children ignorant, attempting to learn in shabby environments and then force them to walk to and from school. THIS is how you're concern for "the children" solidifies. THIS is the reality of your concern.
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Comment #53 posted by afterburner on March 13, 2010 at 22:54:26 PT
FoM #49
I can't get it to load either: i'll look for another link.try this one
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/a-nations-grief-captured-in-condolence-letters-to-jackie-kennedy/article1494430/FoM #49fast food now controls the food supply. and congress tries to control the food pollution by considering fake food 'safety' bills. These would take away our right to nourish ourselves though preventative medicines herbs supplements vitamins. These bills could interfere with organic farmers gardeners Natural Remedies and Supplements Take Blow in Canada, Brace for ...26 Feb 2010 ... Meanwhile, here in the United States, Senator John McCain has ... Dietary Supplement Safety Act of 2010 by Senator John McCain, R-Arizona ...
http://www.naturalnews.com/028252_dietary_supplements_health_freedom.html
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Comment #52 posted by MikeEEEEE on March 13, 2010 at 21:57:07 PT
Hope....some keys open doors
The front door way would be to go thru normal channels that have already decided to say NO.FoM,
nice to be back.
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Comment #51 posted by Hope on March 13, 2010 at 21:09:33 PT
Back door?
"It’s almost certain that California voters will be asked in a November ballot initiative whether to allow local governments to regulate and tax marijuana (similar to taxes on sales of alcohol). Other states are considering similar proposals, which are really a backdoor way to legalize pot."If letting voters vote to legalize, actually, re-legalize, pot in this country, is "a back door way to legalize pot", what would be a front door way to legalize pot? I thought they've been saying medical marijuana is a "back door way", as well as a "Trojan horse" way, to legalize cannabis/marijuana/hemp/pot/weed, etc..Oh those dreadful and disdained "back doors", "Trojan horses", "stepping stones" and "gateways"."sigh* They just can't believe that more and more people are finally waking up and realizing the prohibitionists, the "Warriors", the self righteous and intolerant, like the editorial board at the Christian Science Monitor, have it wrong, policy wise, and have had it wrong all along, and are still doing it wrong, and still wanting desperately to keep doing it wrong, for as long as they possibly can. We can change bad policies and bad laws.We can.
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Comment #50 posted by FoM on March 13, 2010 at 20:19:18 PT
Bill Maher On Wanda Sykes Now
They are talking about marijuana. I hope you all check it out.
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Comment #49 posted by FoM on March 13, 2010 at 20:01:26 PT
It Is Hard For Me To Understand
I have done a lot of thinking during this long hard winter. I have watched the hopes of so many people that voted for Obama or at least in some way felt a little pride at such an achievement be hit over the head with stupidity. I do not understand why all we hear is no to this and no to that while our country crumbles. I do feel that we are being abandoned. There was a time when big companies valued their employees. MikeEEEEE it's good to see you.
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Comment #48 posted by MikeEEEEE on March 13, 2010 at 19:31:55 PT
rchandar & FoM
Capitalism can be an injustice when any opportunity arises, even at the expense of a different culture.
With more than 500K drug prisoners of war costing the STATE big dollar$, I believe that some in the industrial prison complex, eventually, will be part of that growing unemployment equation.
With the collapse of the empire, these program$ cannot be $u$tained.Yes, I believe corporations are running the show, into the ground actually, with a very effective propaganda push.
A capitalism system to an extreme cannibalizes itself--in my opinion, too much suffering has already occured. The 1% mindset (and I do not imply intelligence there) should be afraid of the 99% they are putting into the poor house. Ask yourself, what if the 99% ever woke up. Then again, I can dream.By the way, it’s MikeEEEEE! :)
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Comment #47 posted by Totalrod2 on March 13, 2010 at 19:30:11 PT:
FoM
You've got that right.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677//vp/34985508#34985508
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Comment #46 posted by Had Enough on March 13, 2010 at 19:13:47 PT
re: #44 Politicians & Big Business...
The politicians...do run the country...They run it just the way the highest bidder tells them to...yes the big corpoRATe own them and have them in their pockets...right where they want them...and us...Campaign finance reform??? Hhaaa!!! what a joke...They will never do that...If a few even try...the Supreme Court will just toss it out...like they just did a few months back...
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Comment #45 posted by Had Enough on March 13, 2010 at 19:00:25 PT
the norm...
“”once these people get their office and gavel, responsibility fades and big talk and big bucks are the norm””You shor’ got that right...We’ve seen it over and over...unfortunately we will see it over and over again...
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Comment #44 posted by FoM on March 13, 2010 at 18:49:58 PT
One More Comment
I really don't believe our elected officials run our country. I believe big business runs our country. They pull the strings. I don't know how they took over our country but they did. They use us all up and they will move on like they have been doing for years. You can always find a country that will welcome them for very low wages.
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Comment #43 posted by rchandar on March 13, 2010 at 18:33:33 PT:
MikeEEEE
God forbid, they might have to pass another Crime Bill (Or Cop Bill, to drop the plaudits). Wanna get back to work? Serve your country, and jail all the evil unbelievers!That stat about 23% as opposed to 10%, whatever it is...these people can't even get the Jobs Bill passed--last I heard, one lone Republican from Kentucky was stalling the entire thing. Why should we believe in government? What are they doing, to raise their standard in our eyes? Either side looks pretty bad these days, and we were only campaigning on a platform of common sense that Barack himself endorsed two years ago.It's understandable that many of us think that, once these people get their office and gavel, responsbility fades and big talk and big bucks are the norm.--rchandar
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Comment #42 posted by Had Enough on March 13, 2010 at 18:29:36 PT
Drug Czars....
Czars belong in Russia...Not AMERICA!!!America...your not a child...anymore...************Styx - Suite Madame Blue Live 1996http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKlw-eoZGgoLyricshttp://www.lyricsfreak.com/s/styx/suite+madame+blue_20132819.html
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Comment #41 posted by FoM on March 13, 2010 at 18:22:22 PT
Had Enough
Keep on keepin on. With a smile on our face and hope in our hearts we'll all get thru this tough time. We might be better people on the other side of it too. Hard times build character. We have lost that quality and it needs to return.
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Comment #40 posted by Had Enough on March 13, 2010 at 18:14:38 PT
FoM...
I hear ya...I know of people in similar position...I’m still hanging in there...barely...but still here...still keeping on keepin’ on...
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Comment #39 posted by Had Enough on March 13, 2010 at 18:07:15 PT
This one....
This one goes out to the Christian Science Monitor...all Drug Czars...and all the Calvina Fays’ of the world...and of course...all of their ilk.***Asylum Street Spankers - "Winning the War on Drugs"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVkk6fH2u0Y
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Comment #38 posted by FoM on March 13, 2010 at 18:05:02 PT
Had Enough
I agree the figure is way higher then they say. They don't count people who have exhausted unemployment compensation either. Houses are empty. Jobs are gone. It's not good around here either. My husband hasn't worked since November of 2008. Lord knows how we are surviving but so far we are. I know many people aren't.I love 16 Tons.
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Comment #37 posted by Had Enough on March 13, 2010 at 17:58:05 PT
Real Unemployment???
From where I sit...around 30% to 40% or more...Gather up 100 people...30 to 40 of them will be unemployed...25 to 40 more will be on reduced pay...either working part time, and/or having their pay rate or salary cut back...The remaining are still in position to make their regular pay...or are controlling the employees...The so-called official figures that are pumped out on the TV ad machine/boob tube/idiot box, do not include all...just the ones they want to tell us about.They are afraid to reveal the real numbers, as the natives would gather pitchforks and torches...that is if there are any left on the shelves...************Tennessee Ernie Ford - 16 Tonshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Joo90ZWrUkU&feature=related
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Comment #36 posted by kaptinemo on March 13, 2010 at 17:29:15 PT:
To paraphrase The Bard
"A turd by any other name would smell as bad."Rchandar, the fact is that the prohibs are well aware of the fact that there's a coming battle over the remaining budgetary tax dollars. But they won't be able to waltz in and grab what they want this time, no matter how much they shriek about "THE CHILDREN! THE CHILDREN! THE CHILDREN!"Because now THE CHILDREN are facing something much worse than a drug dealer, they're facing homelessness and hunger.Foreign governments such as the Chinese have finally made their move and will no longer buy US debt (a.k.a. known around the world and the US as 'dollars'). It's time for the American government to start living within its' means. And that calls for a drastic re-ordering of the budgetary priorities. Printing more paper 'money' won't keep at bay the reality of a hungry wolf at the door.It's triage time. Time to cut away real fat. Time to re-allocate the money that that fat represents to things that people really need, like Unemployment Insurance...or face the very real threat of social unrest (as a favorite SF writing duo of mine put it, "no place is more than three missed meals away from a revolution" and those Tea Party people are a symptom of that). And if anything has proven itself a terrible waste of money (that we all fervently wish we now had) it's the DrugWar. Which means, first and foremost, the War on Weed.Like an out-of-control steam roller with no brakes, slowly, inexorably, the economy is forcing changes, whether the politicians want to acknowledge them or not. And, sooner or later, the pain those changes cause will elicit real, dangerously hot anger on the part of the electorate, who will want to know what the pols are doing with the money they stole from us courtesy of taxes. And that question will grow sharp teeth, as things get worse.All it takes is for one fool of a DrugWarrior to stand up in the midst of such people and start blah-blah-blahing about how he needs their money to keep those taxpayer's kids 'safe from drugs' when the parents of those kids are more worried about keeping them safe from being hungry and on the street.Given that many DrugWarriors are not all that savvy, count on a few doing just that. And then watch all Hell break loose.It's coming. Sad it had to be this way, but they wouldn't listen to reason, and now the formerly DrugWar-supporting parents will have to listen to the sound of theirs and their children's rumbling stomachs and be worried about shelter and emergency medical care because the money they demanded be squandered on the DrugWar isn't there to take care of their needs. A truly hard lesson. But if that's what it takes to free us from the tyranny of drug prohibition, then so be it. Because (and I might someday burn for saying this, but dammit, it's the truth)...We told them so
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Comment #35 posted by John Tyler on March 13, 2010 at 17:00:18 PT
what facts?
I read through the article and I didn’t see any facts. All I saw was vague reference to this or that, but nothing solid, or any trusted sources cited. It was the same old BS that, “pot makes you lazy, crazy, and stupid” argument that the public doesn’t listen too anymore because they know it to be a lie.
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Comment #34 posted by MikeEEEEE on March 13, 2010 at 16:33:18 PT
rchandar
The real unemployment rate is around 23%.
1 in 8 homes (families) is in foreclosure.
The propaganda media has said, prolonged recession or deep recession, or severe recession, etc., etc. They just cannot say great depression part II, and admit to other failures.
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Comment #33 posted by FoM on March 13, 2010 at 15:18:30 PT
afterburner
Thank you for the link but the page won't load for me. Verizon has issues that sites like Bing.com won't load and sometimes articles.
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Comment #32 posted by rchandar on March 13, 2010 at 14:56:35 PT:
ezrydn
I don't care. He had better shut his f-ing mouth. Unemployment stands at 10% nationwide, and a lot of people are hurting.So, Gil, what are you saying, you want to wage war on us? Is this the "noble crusade" of Walters' days passed? Yeah, sounds like a great idea--we can't get the economy going and put people back to work, so let's just haul ass and build more prisons and lock up every delinquent under the sun. Let's have a Bourbon Street type sweep, and get 'em all. America isn't for Americans, but for an elect group of socialites and conformalites who buy the idea that it is the government, not the people, who make the country what it is.No, I share the irritation of many of you. You wanna wage war? On me? When I don't even have any food on the table, except for a few pieces of bread and a pack of cigarettes? You wanna turn me in? When you've done zero to make our lives work out? What are you going to do, take our kids away and re-marry my girlfriend, now that she's the only one who makes any money, and she's excited that she got a job working at the gas station?You mindless, worthless, spineless MF!!!
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Comment #31 posted by afterburner on March 13, 2010 at 14:46:46 PT
FoM
14 states with mmj laws. 14 more pending. If they all pass, 28 out of 50 states is a majority. Hope wish and dream of a better future! More later.In case you didn't see the following one:Letters capture American grief after Kennedy assassination
Published Tuesday, March 9, 2010.
White House staff members and volunteers sort through letters of condolence in December 1963. More than a million people wrote Jacqueline Kennedy after her husband's assassination.
KATIE ZEZIMA, NEW YORK TIMES
http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/777166--letters-capture-american-grief-after-kennedy-assassination?bn=1
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Comment #30 posted by Mark702 on March 13, 2010 at 13:10:14 PT
Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt
More of the government spewing fear, uncertainty and doubt. The FUD tactics do not work and as an exceedingly large number of Americans have access to quality, non-propaganda information regarding cannabis and hemp, the less the people believe these lies.If someone you know needs to see the reality of medical cannabis or be otherwise convinced, have them watch Cannabis TV on the site CannabisTV.org
CannabisTV.org
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Comment #29 posted by ezrydn on March 13, 2010 at 11:31:31 PT:
BS called on Drug Czar
Ok, Gil. You said, "marijuana is harmful – and I has the studies to back it up.""BS," Gil!If you "have studies" that show something, them let them see the light of day and throw them in our faces at the same time. Give us links to verify because your office has had a problem with verified facts ever since it's inception.So, knock us down with your studies, Gil. I dare you to even try!
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Comment #28 posted by MikeEEEEE on March 13, 2010 at 10:53:03 PT
faked-out
The very CHILDREN they claim to be saving have laughed at their fake propaganda for decades. Stay tuned, more laughs to come.
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Comment #27 posted by Richard Zuckerman on March 13, 2010 at 10:10:40 PT:
Law enforcement is a costly problem:
1. Police only solve 10% to 20% of the crimes! This was the answer to a mid-term exam I had taken in Police Operations course over the Summer 2009 semester.
2. Police are enabled to falsify evidence because of a code of silence in police departments and court procedures which deny a jury trial.
3. Why should we fund law enforcement in light of these very expensive two aforementioned truisms?
4. Every State Constitution, such as 1947 New Jersey Constitution, Article 1, Paragraph 2, has a power-to-the- people provision stating that the people are sovereign, the people have the power at all times to alter or reform the government when required for the public good; But government schools do not teach it. As a result, the ignorant Americans are going along with the nonsense spewed out by public employees, such as "...science should determine what is a medicine, not popular vote", and
"[t]he costs of legalizing marijuana outweigh any possible tax that could be levied."
5. Over the past week, Congress voted on the Concurrent Resolution to end the Afghanistan war, sponsored by Congressman Dennis Kucinich (Democrat). The local Congressman, Frank Pallone, Jr. (Democrat), voted against it! I recall about four years ago Congressman Pallone stated he is against the war, but if there is going to be a war then they might as well be armed. He told me in one of his Town Hall Meetings, in his New Brunswick, New Jersey, office, "I've changed my mind! I'm now in favor of medical marijuana!! Afterwards, he was appointed Chairman of the Subcommittee on Health, House Energey and Commerce Committee, and he has done NOTHING to support marijuana decriminalization or hemp decriminalization!! Congressman Pallone is one of the 92 original co-sponsors of the Amnesty Bill for illegal aliens, H.R. 4321 (December 15, 2009), too! All of the Congress members are up for re-election this November 2010. How much do you folks want to bet Congressman Pallone will be re-elected? If Gil Kerlikswske wants to talk about wasted tax dollars, why not address the taxes we are paying for marijuana law enforcement!!
6. As a "conspiracy theorist", I want you folks to consider the jigsaw puzzle of evidence of George Herbert Walker Bush's Crack Cocaine distribution network back around 1998, which resulted in hearings by the House Intelligence Committee and a two volume report Whitewash by Fred Hitz, then-Inspector General of the C.I.A., which denies there is enough evidence to inculpate George Herbert Walker Bush, though it does admit rogue elements of the C.I.A. had indeed, been involved in guns for Crack Cocaine distribution to fund George Herbert Walker's unauthorized war for Nicaraguan soldiers. Keep in mind that when George Walker Bush was U.S. President, he called for a "New World Order"! While his son George W. Bush was U.S. President, the Southern Border was opened wide, allowing unauthorized immigrants to pass into this country, while George W. Bush attended meetings with the Mexican President and Canadian Prime Minister for a "North American Union"; Then "Plan Mexico" was implemented, in which the federal government provided guns to Mexican military. Mexicans who came over the Southern Border carrying up to I don't know how many hundreds of pounds of marijuana were not prosecuted, as per a policy by a U.S. Attorney. As far as I have read, I personally believe that everything the Bush Family has done and does today is for their own family Empire, not at all in support of U.S. citizens! Jeb Bush is a member of the Council On Foreign Relations, www.cfr.org; We need the CFR and United Nations like we need a hole in our heads!! You folks had better start listening to the other side, audit alteram partem, such as Congressman Ron Paul, e.g., www.voteronpaul.com, and Ralph Nader, www.nader.org; register to vote; discern the political platform of every single candidate running for office, and vote for the candidate who best supports freedom for American citizens; Otherwise, we will continue to go bankrupt and spiral into a one world government. I read yesterday, U.S. Senator Chuck Shumer now wants to control China's monetary decisions!! They want to take your guns away, too. Silence=death. I am amazed at how many Middlesex County College students do not know who their Congress member is, who their State legislators, even who the U.S. Senators for New Jersey are!!!Richard Paul Zuckerman
Post Office Box 159
Metuchen, New Jersey
08840-0159,
Member of: www.mpp.org;
www.canorml.org; www.taxcannabis.org;
www.FIJA.org; www.JPFO.org;
www.NJCIC.com.
Diploma in Paralegal, N.Y.U., 2003;
B.A. in Political Science,
Kean College of New Jersey, 1987.
Ron Paul Republican;
Also supportive of Ralph Nader,
as a second choice for U.S. President.
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Comment #26 posted by BGreen on March 13, 2010 at 10:09:55 PT
Christian Scientists are NOT Christians
Nor are they scientists.They are a cult, and not a very bunch of intelligent cultists at that.They just need to shut the hell up and wait for their spaceship to come back to pick their sorry a$$es back up and whisk them away to some other place where they can create another prison complex.Fools!The Reverend Bud Green
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Comment #25 posted by kaptinemo on March 13, 2010 at 09:01:49 PT:
The sound of desperation
You would have to be deaf, blind and 'developmentally challenged' not read anything but that in this article.A White House Rebuttal, Finally"Mental image of some Church-Lady type feverishly wiping her brow in relief; the cavalry's on the way!"The drug czar’s remarks are worth notice for two reasons. First, they provide needed talking points for those who oppose legalization but who can’t seem to make their message resonate in the face of a well-financed, well-organized pro-marijuana effort." (Emphasis mine - k.)What, the prohibs need more talking points? Didn't they already possess enough canards? (That's a fancy word for 'lies'.) And, boy, I sure could use some of that financing for reform the (taxpayer's money gushing from every pocket) prohibs keep talking about. All I ever get are exhortations from reform groups for money I don't have to give because I'm barely able to hold my own in this economy. I've always found a publication of an organization based upon faith-based 'medicine's atipathy towards any other less piously-driven (but vastly more effective) methodologies to be worhty of some amusement. They've provided me with plenty of smiles and belly laughs today. Henny-Penny has nothing on these guys when it comes to hysteria. Pathetic
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Comment #24 posted by Vincent on March 13, 2010 at 08:08:37 PT:
Totalrod2
"Yeah, I'm more of a far-left leaning voter, but I also own a firearm and am quite happy to drive my old gas guzzler (1961 Mercury)".Mr. Totalrod2, I am also a left-leaning voter but, probably farther left than most on this board. However, I do agree with you about guns and gas-guzzling cars. If you want to own a gun for protection, or any other reasonable use, then I think that the government should mind its own business. The same with old (classic) cars. Converting to green energy will take a long time, so we shouldn't just "chuck" out all the gas guzzlers immediately. I don't smoke cigarettes, but I don't like all the new taxes on it, or the restrictions imposed. I heard that some politician wants to make salt illegal!!! Has everyone gone crazy?!!The best thing to do is to let people do their own thing as long as nobody gets hurt.
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Comment #23 posted by FoM on March 13, 2010 at 06:05:19 PT
rchandar
I understand what your saying. I do believe Obama will win and have a second term and I am happy about that. I like Dennis but he can never win and that's just reality. I am so glad that we don't have McCain and Palin or we would not have made any progress.
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Comment #22 posted by Totalrod2 on March 13, 2010 at 01:22:46 PT:
Rchandar
I do agree with Vincent and GCW. Dennis Kucinich certainly seems like a straight shooter. Let's hope he runs again. Maybe the third time is a charm. :)
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Comment #21 posted by rchandar on March 13, 2010 at 00:42:38 PT:
TotalRod2
No points for Ron Paul?Seriously, though, I get your gripe and I get vexed by this stuff too. Obama isn't Clinton, though. Nowhere in the rhetoric that got him elected was the promise to attack "drug users" with any vengeance--Clinton's comment was, is, a lot stupider than Obama's concern for border violence and crazed cartels. He did thank Uribe for not seeking a 3rd term. There hasn't really been any ideological statement from Barack endorsing the kind of massive WoD we've been used to--though, clearly, his story is generally against drugs having much benefit and his budget gave enough to pursuing such a war.Point is, though: Barack cannot in any good sense, declare the kind of all-out war, going after every segment of society with tough penalties--now, because we're in a recession. Such a move would be insensitive and an assault on families who have to make ends meet and confront shrinking or nonexistent paychecks. I don't think he will come on as a fierce "drug warrior" at least for some time. There's more sensitivity to the guy than any President I've seen so far--that includes Jimmy Carter, too.The Mexico problem is enough to send the usual alarmism. But we put down our facts: most weed in America comes from here, not there. Plenty of people who grow and sell the stuff aren't Mexican hoods, and even they don't always answer to the "higher authority" that's pummelling disobedient subordinates and reporters and politicians. Still, divorcing MJ from the cartels that make money on it won't be an easy game. Becoming "drug warrior" is a temptation for our President: it ensures him a forcefulness and a basic agreement with conservatives who otherwise will play against him. Still, I vote Democratic because a Republican presidency is bad in all respects. It means more war money, more arrests, and less leniency in sentencing. Take it from me, I was sentenced in Federal court--by a guy who started his career working for Rush Limbaugh. I didn't go to jail, but standing there against this judge was humiliating and an insult that I--and my family--still haven't forgotten.--rchandar
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Comment #20 posted by Totalrod2 on March 12, 2010 at 22:47:32 PT:
Re: Christ, TotalRod2
Politics is a revolving door. And since there isn't a 3rd party (or at least one that's ever succeeded in making it to the white house) well, we'll see. Personally, I'm not sure how much of a difference it even makes. Yeah, I'm more of a far-left leaning voter, but I also own a firearm and am quite happy to drive my old gas guzzler (1961 Mercury). That makes me a "moderate"...hated by both sides! I just wish government would stop trying to micromanage everyone's lives. Better quit while I'm ahead.
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Comment #19 posted by The GCW on March 12, 2010 at 22:20:03 PT
Dennis Kucinich
The entire world would be a better place if Dennis won 2 elections ago!War, education, health care, cannabis etc. etc.Flat out said He'd regulate cannabis similar to alcohol.
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Comment #18 posted by Vincent on March 12, 2010 at 21:57:03 PT:
The Christian Science Monit-duh
A bigger load of garbage, I've never read. They, the Prohibitionists of the world, are like a proverbial wounded animal ; it senses the enemy closing in on him, so he will attack very viciously. Didn't you notice that they said, "the forces of legalization have the mometum now...WE MUST STOP LEGALIZATION--WE MUST!As far as the President is concerned, and his mealy-mouthed drug czar, well... now, didn't I say that I originally wanted Dennis Kucinich to be President? You see why now, don't you?
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Comment #17 posted by The GCW on March 12, 2010 at 21:55:41 PT
rchandar, post #13, -about Mexico,
Just read now-Mexico Drug Gang Hushes Killings With News Blackouthttp://www.cannabisculture.com/v2/content/2010/03/11/Mexico-Drug-Gang-Hushes-Killings-News-BlackoutThis adds a whole new mind bending dimension to the problem...
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Comment #16 posted by rchandar on March 12, 2010 at 21:52:01 PT:
Christ, TotalRod2
They will NOT be back in power in 2012 and NO ONE is going to end MMJ!!! PS "Drug Czars" don't have tenure--if they don't get any results, out they go!!!
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Comment #15 posted by Totalrod2 on March 12, 2010 at 21:44:47 PT:
an interesting point
Once the republicans are back in office in 2012, I wonder what will happen to any progress (however little) that HAS been made. It's almost too predictable. :(
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Comment #14 posted by christ on March 12, 2010 at 21:40:43 PT
oooh :( i forgot my id.
"America’s young people are most vulnerable to the threat of legalization. They are particularly sensitive to the price of pot (and prices will come down if pot is legalized)."I don't know what's worse: this csmonitor article or some of those weak Drug Free americafoundation cheapshots. Yeah, the price would go down because of a legal marketplace... with a sales force that checks ID... who know they'd be fired if caught selling to minors. There's a reason why an overwhelming number of high school seniors say it's easier to buy weed than beer. The challenge is to make it equally difficult.
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Comment #13 posted by rchandar on March 12, 2010 at 21:38:23 PT:
One More
Gil's statement doesn't mean that much. Yeah right, like we're not going to continue to campaign for MMJ legalization. None of you should lose confidence in the new bills that are coming to the State Legislatures. That shouldn't even enter into the picture because Holder's statement is basically still intact. But these decisions don't just come from our neck of the woods. Mexico, for example, has included several examples of grisly killings among the cartels there. The shocking exposure of these episodes could not play out to deaf ears--it was likely that a former Seattle cop would interpret them negatively. HOWEVER--it isn't likely that Holder will change his decision because he says that the Feds WILL not prosecute State MMJ dispensaries. "WILL" is the key word--it's discretionary just as the Dutch policy is discretionary. Nor should we walk away from the California initiative which is very, very promising--a Federal law against pot possession would be unenforceable--they depend on the State law and know it. They would basically have to land tens of thousands of Federal agents to write tickets and summon people to court. Fight on.
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Comment #12 posted by rchandar on March 12, 2010 at 21:32:56 PT:
Keep the Pressure On...
...this was expected. It was expected for a number of reasons. The first is obvious: the Dems are in trouble and a November election promises to take away Congressional majorities in both houses....the second. Obama has been criticized by many for being ineffective. The WoD is a power coin that Clinton, for example, readily scooped up when faced with the Republican-controlled Congress. It's not likely, for the time being, that we can look to Barack for this kind of approval, though we should continue to exert meaningful pressure.Kerlikowske's statement doesn't really open any eyeballs, at least I don't think--most state and Congressional lawmakers take a dim view of pot. Gil's comment about MMJ is a lot more questionable and should be fought--he's siding with the DEA, who want to keep MJ Schedule I. We will have to take the issue to Capitol Hill and the Supreme Court--while the numbers are still in our favor.--rchandar
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Comment #11 posted by The GCW on March 12, 2010 at 21:25:36 PT
Colorado update from Mason Tvert / Westword
US CO: Marijuana legalization: As a precaution, Mason Tvert files language to put it on November ballot
Webpage: http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/2010/03/marijuana_legalization_as_a_pr.phpPubdate: 12 Mar 2010Source: Westword (CO)
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Comment #10 posted by totalrod2 on March 12, 2010 at 21:01:01 PT:
and...
And no, I'm not an atheist.
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Comment #9 posted by Totalrod2 on March 12, 2010 at 20:56:34 PT:
More hiding behind God
"Christian Science". There's an oxymoron if ever there was one. There is no science to a politically right-leaning group who uses religion as nothing more than a tool to further their agenda. I live in South Carolina and see it every day. It's funny how these "Christians" are usually the first to ask for forgiveness, but the last to actually give any. As long as you share in their beliefs 100% and never question anything, they'll be your friends. But God have mercy on your soul should you "choose" to be gay, have an abortion, or EVER use an illicit drug. It's pure malarkey.
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Comment #8 posted by FoM on March 12, 2010 at 20:24:51 PT
Had Enough
My opinion is people who are mentally ill do smoke marijuana and people that are mentally stable smoke marijuana. The man was obviously mentally ill.
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Comment #7 posted by Had Enough on March 12, 2010 at 20:11:40 PT
More Rambling
“”The recent “Pentagon shooter,” John Patrick Bedell, was a heavy marijuana user. The disturbed young man’s psychiatrist told the Associated Press that marijuana made the symptoms of his mental illness more pronounced. Mr. Bedell’s brother, Jeffrey, told The Washington Post that marijuana made his brother’s thinking “more disordered” and that he had implored him to stop smoking pot, to no avail.””***Parents of Pentagon shooter warned authoritiesBy TRACIE CONE and BROOKE DONALD, Associated PressMarch 5, 2010HOLLISTER, Calif. – The man who opened fire in front of the Pentagon had a history of mental illness and had become so erratic that his parents reached out to local authorities weeks ago and warned them that their son was unstable and might have a gun, authorities said Friday.It's still unclear why John Patrick Bedell opened fire Thursday at the Pentagon entrance and shot and wounded two police officers before he was fatally shot in an exchange of gunfire. The two officers were hospitalized briefly with minor injuries.But a blog connected to Bedell via the social networking site LinkedIn outlines his growing distrust of the federal government and gives credence to the idea that a criminal enterprise run out of the government could have staged the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.San Benito County Sheriff Curtis Hill told The Associated Press that Bedell, 36, had been at in-patient mental health institutions at least four times. Court records showed he was diagnosed as bipolar, or manic depressive.more...http://enjoyingthejourney.blogspot.com/2010/03/john-patrick-bedell-mind-controlled.html
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Comment #6 posted by Shielde on March 12, 2010 at 19:53:45 PT
rambling on
" they provide needed talking points for those who oppose legalization but who can’t seem to make their message resonate in the face of a well-financed, well-organized pro-marijuana effort" well-financed, well-organized to some extent anti-marijuana effort that can't seem to make their message resonate because it's full of half truths and half rationalized theories, this would be our government, "They have been generously financed by a few billionaires, including George Soros, and make strategic use of the Internet and media."As opposed to law enforcement and mainly our own government which uses these same outlets only to be laughed at most of the time"Legalization supporters argue that no one has ever died from an overdose of this “soft” drug. But here’s what “science” has found so far: Smoking marijuana can result in dependence on the drug."And the supporters are correct. "Science" can also be used to find that any substance known to man can result in dependence. Not to mention any activity can result in a dependence depending on the person, whether or not the dependence is mental or physical.
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Comment #5 posted by Had Enough on March 12, 2010 at 19:37:27 PT
Signs
That sound you are hearing from the CSM...is the ‘sign’ of the dying dinosaur/prohibition thrashing it’s tail.Man...CSM ‘must be ‘some kind of a sinner’************Signs by Five Man Electrical Bandhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1Q7cP3ij5g&feature=relatedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yr_HootKuvYBoth have good video...the first one shows different usless signs that say things like “This sign has sharp edges do not touch sides”...”Open 7 days a week – except Sunday” more...The second one has some youngsters in Japan doing their take on things...pretty cool.
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Comment #4 posted by The GCW on March 12, 2010 at 19:20:06 PT
waste of warm blood
What a stupid human being:"to regulate and tax marijuana (similar to taxes on sales of alcohol). Other states are considering similar proposals, which are really a backdoor way to legalize pot."Idiot! Tax and regulate is exactly legalization; IT'S NOT A BACKDOOR -FOOL- IT'S EVERY DOOR. -0-As a Christian, I resent this ignorant rag referring to itself as the "Christian" Science Monitor.-0-"But here’s what “science” has found so far: Smoking marijuana can result in dependence on the drug." Hey DINK, what about all those class A narcotic pain meds that are super duper addictive? Since using those Pharm pill can result in "dependence" does that make them prohibited? I think I'll skip the rest of this article.This is another instance where a newspaper or magazine gives a platform to the law enforcement community and lets them run where every they wish.It will make the win in California that much sweeter!-0-Christian? science monitor? I'm sorry! The Christian stand I receive from the Bible and from the spirit of truth which My Father sends is to LOVE ONE ANOTHER! Aint nobody lovin one another by putting responsible cannabis (kaneh bosm) users in a cage for using what My Father indicates He created and says is good on the 1st page of the Bible.A waste of warm blood.
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Comment #3 posted by HempWorld on March 12, 2010 at 19:06:23 PT
Sure, just leave it to the Christian Science
Monitor ..."It will take clear-thinking parents, teachers, local officials, faith leaders, and law enforcement officers to convincingly articulate why the march to legalization must be stopped."Sounds like totalitarianism, way to go, not!
Legalize It!
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Comment #1 posted by Universer on March 12, 2010 at 18:43:41 PT
Oh my.
This is trash on a shingle.Well, I've got a cold, and I'm at work right now, and there's so much here to refute and to point out as bogus that it's difficult to determine which fallacy to start with.So I'll leave it to all y'all.One thing: The CSM absolutely NEEDS to hear from us. Intelligently, cogently, positively. But they MUST hear from us.This cannot go unpunished.
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