ninotchka:earthwirm: Mugato: I have a niece and nephew I take out sometimes and I've never had any problems with their throwing a tantrum or acting up. Take some parenting classes, get a nanny or go to the nearest PetSmart and buy a muzzle. Failing all of that, don't get all indignant when someone expresses annoyance at your shrieking spawn.No one should yell at you or anything but don't get all uppity if someone's natural reaction is to look annoyed in your direction.

Wow, you sound like a parenting expert.

I should hire you as my nanny since you are such an expert. I have 4 children and 3 are boys. Three of them are easy going. I get compliments everywhere I go with them. One is more difficult. He is stubborn and harder to control. He will break you.

Gawd, you are a stupid parent. Just read a book, and raise them all exactly the same way with simplistic platitudes. I mean, I don't have kids, but I babysat once for 2 hours, and the kid never once had a problem.

I'm generally tolerant of kids in most places. Public parks, grocery stores, the bus, planes... whatever. I can tune them out.

However, I will not tolerate screeching children in the movie theater. That is the one place where without a shadow of a doubt, a person who opts to remain in their seat with a disruptive child is an inconsiderate asshole. There is absolutely no excuse, no justification for that.

I was reading the blog thinking 'yeah ok, he's got a point - I still hate kids, but grocery shopping is a a no-go area if you want a kid free zone.... then I dcided to read the previous blog entry about evil atheists or some such shiate.

so - applying the same logic from that blog - the guys a complete, total, utter moron and all his opinions are worthless, therefore everyone should feel free to casually insult parents of screaming toddlers in supermarkets

Albinoman:You don't have to be a good singer to know when someone is bombing a song. Similarly, I don't have to be a parent to know when someone is bad at it. I find it weird how someone becomes a parent and suddenly they're grafted with all this knowledge the childless obviously could never know, right? All those parents that claim to be above opinions and criticism forget that everyone the biggest idiots seems to be able to keep their children alive and by virtue of the fact that we all figure out parenting as an instinct (or we'd die out), they aren't really much more knowledgeable than the rest of us.

If a child throws a tantrum in public, you just need to look up at the shiatty, effete parents. That all being said, the large majority of parents and children aren't the problem.

A wise man knows how much he doesn't know. An idiot is confident in his lack of knowledge. I will let you guess which one you are.

I came from a large family. My mother makes fun of people who raised one kid and talks like they are an expert on raising children. There is nothing wrong with everyone having an opinion. I know many people who helped raise their siblings, but of course stupid parents then say they know nothing about raising kids because they have none of their own.

Contempt, no. They are wonderful people who have always been there for me. Much like the parents of my friends for them, my co-workers, myself for mine, etc. However, many people seem to think that parenting grants magic knowledge or that having (or not having) children affects the truth value of a person's statements, and that I find amusing.

Speaking from my own limited experience here - If it grants you anything beyond stress and sleepless nights, parenting grants you heightened sympathy/empathy for what other parents are going through. You may not know that guy next to you, and he may not know you. You both have, however, been screamed at for a few months by someone who can barely communicate back to you, have been worried the first time the little one got sick, wondered if you are doing it right, have been urinated on, etc.

I wonder if anyone has done some realistic investigation into what would happen if people everywhere stopped having children. KInd of like that series on Discovery or whatever channel it was where they looked at what would happen if humans disappeared.

TalenLee:earthwirm: TalenLee: earthwirm: Lady J: if i have to listen to your screeching brat on the bus, i get to have an opinion

Actually, no you don't. Deal with it.

That's just a flat out lie. I get to have an opinion on anything. Now, the idea that a person doesn't get to express their opinion because you don't think it's justified or morally acceptable or whatever is fine, but I'm fairly sure that telling them their opinion is flat-out not allowed to exist is, at the very least, dickish.

No, it's called humanity. Instead of having a rude demeanor and making everyone days bad , you can choose to lighten the mood or help. Being a jack wagon doesn't and won't help.

You seem to misunderstand me.

I'm not saying 'the opinion about children is A or B.'

I'm saying 'telling someone they're not allowed to have any opinion at all is dickish.'

And... I dunno, it sounds like two people are frustrated and upset with the circumstances, but only one of them is allowed to feel that way because they're a parent, the other is someone uninvolved in the child's life...?

Spare me. You could be on the bus with a mom on her way to the doctor with a child that has an earache, or fell down getting on and barked a shin and is crying about it and you'd be right there with the other delicate flowers in this thread telling her she's a bad mother and should get off the bus until her "fark trophy" calms down, right?

I swear, every one of these threads is like a catalog of entitled snowflakes. Bunch of candy-asses, I can't believe you can possibly function in the real world.

What the fark do you people do when instead of having an encounter with a child, you run into an adult who is actually an asshole? If you can't handle a child getting worked up, i can't imagine you're well-prepared for the harsh realities of life.

Maybe you should just stay home until you're better prepared to deal with people you might encounter as soon as you leave.

Grocery stores are pretty bad places to let a kid rampage through, actually. Lotta breakable crap, fast moving carts to run into, employees on ladders or carrying boxes. Just take em outside for a sec, hell, even the bathroom.

Three kids, three boys, and I honestly hate parents who let their kids scream incessantly in public because they think that it's the right thing to do.

Pro tip: It's not.

You don't ignore a tantrum, you catch the child before he can get into tantrum mode and address it head on. Don't treat your child like a pet. You 'talk' to them, you cajole them, whatever they want, they're not going to get, but if they're good until they get home, there might be something in it for them.

Yes, it's bribery, but by the time they get home, they've completely forgotten about that little talk in the store.

If they don't take the bribe, then be fully prepared to vacate the store with the child.

I've never had to worry about such things because I never took my kids out without them having a nap and a snack first. It's called preparation and most parents don't get that aspect. Kids don't throw tantrums just because. They throw tantrums because you've had them up for hours, they're hungry and exhausted and you want to spend 20 minutes trying to decide which loaf of bread looks the freshest.

Your kid throwing a tantrum in public is not the kid's fault. It's YOURS.

You get to inflict your screaming brat on the rest of us and shove your work off on us because you have to stay home with your sick kid and in exchange we get to tell you what we think of you're annoying little brat.

Infernalist:I love how parents have come to think that ignoring a temper tantrum is the proper course of action to take, ESPECIALLY in public.

It's really the only way to deal with tantrums.

If you give into the child's demands or fall all over yourself to placate him, the child just learns that throwing a tantrum is an effective way to get what they want, and will do it more often in the future. If you drop everything and run out of the store, it's the same deal - the child takes away the lesson that they are in control and can get you to stop and leave a place they don't want to be simply by throwing a tantrum. Threats don't work on a toddler - they're not capable of processing that kind of reasoning, especially when they are in that kind of emotional state.

The only thing to o, if you want to discourage tantrums from happening, is to tell you child calmly that the tantrum won't get them what they want, and then calmly, quickly, and efficiently finish your errand. The child will learn that the tantrum was not an effective way of commanding your attention and actions.

Contempt, no. They are wonderful people who have always been there for me. Much like the parents of my friends for them, my co-workers, myself for mine, etc. However, many people seem to think that parenting grants magic knowledge or that having (or not having) children affects the truth value of a person's statements, and that I find amusing.

Speaking from my own limited experience here - If it grants you anything beyond stress and sleepless nights, parenting grants you heightened sympathy/empathy for what other parents are going through. You may not know that guy next to you, and he may not know you. You both have, however, been screamed at for a few months by someone who can barely communicate back to you, have been worried the first time the little one got sick, wondered if you are doing it right, have been urinated on, etc.

Mr. Coffee Nerves:I think the good parents hate the "Don't you dare give me a dirty look because I'm letting my five-year-old and my three-year-old chug Mountain Dew and play 'Scream Tag' in the aisles at this 10PM showing of 'I Spit On Your Grave'"-type parents more than the non-parents hate them.

Wow, that sounds quite insane if meant wholeheartedly and not as a shortcut. I have heard "Your opinion about abortion is less valid because you've never experienced any of the related issues," which seems pretty reasonable to me.

Contempt, no. They are wonderful people who have always been there for me. Much like the parents of my friends for them, my co-workers, myself for mine, etc. However, many people seem to think that parenting grants magic knowledge or that having (or not having) children affects the truth value of a person's statements, and that I find amusing.

I think you are confusing experience with "magical knowledge". Would you agree that for instance a zoo keeper making statements regarding the care and feeding of zoo animals opinion is more valid on that subject than that of someone who has never had even a pet?

Albinoman:You don't have to be a good singer to know when someone is bombing a song. Similarly, I don't have to be a parent to know when someone is bad at it. I find it weird how someone becomes a parent and suddenly they're grafted with all this knowledge the childless obviously could never know, right? All those parents that claim to be above opinions and criticism forget that everyone the biggest idiots seems to be able to keep their children alive and by virtue of the fact that we all figure out parenting as an instinct (or we'd die out), they aren't really much more knowledgeable than the rest of us.

If a child throws a tantrum in public, you just need to look up at the shiatty, effete parents. That all being said, the large majority of parents and children aren't the problem.

This, completely this.

every parenting style is as unique as the family unit raising the kids.

also, I think some parents and singles alike forget that it does indeed take a village.

These kids are our future surgeons, police officers, scientists etc.

It really is in our collective interests that they're well taken care of and educated.

You know what, that blog post did raise a good point. I had blindly assumed parents were being selfish dicks when they were ignoring their kids when they could just do something to make the infant shut up. Now I realise it's not that simple, because I never thought about it before.

However please, for the love of god, don't take your kids on holiday by air if they cannot behave. If they're not old enough to not scream then don't bring them on the plane. Or at least beg with us for the airlines to make childless flights. Meet us halfway here. What harm does childless flights do you? None, you get the same plane to get where you're going, and I probably have to pay extra to have a stress free flight. Everyone is happy.

The last 2 flights out of the country I've been on I've been set in front of screaming children. I can't take it. Hours and hours of screaming. If I was American it might be easier because I could drive everywhere, but you can't always drive around Europe, especially when going to island destinations.

I now know why the kids keep screaming, and I can appreciate what you're trying to do, but help us all out here and try to not subject everyone to it in enclosed spaces. Please. You must be able to remember, from your pre-parent days, how angry hearing another persons child scream for an hour can make you. If you hadn't experienced that before becoming a parent then you were probably quite lucky. You put headphones on but that doesn't drown it out, and then for good measure he starts kicking the back of your seat. I could weep with exasperation just remembering it.

What about if we all make an agreement that until childless flights are a thing that you will all do your best to get on flights between 11am and 5pm. Everything out of those hours we can call adult friendly. Is that a fair compromise? I just want to find a solution to our respective problems. I know we can do it. If there's one think Fark is good for it's rational, and well tempered conversation leading to fruitful debate where all parties leave amicably.

Also, everyone else, don't clap and cheer when the plane lands. Who does that? I mean really. It's just silly.

I am a big fan of opera. When my two girls used to act up in the store I would begin to belt out the final scene of "Don Giovanni" at the top of my lungs. Yah, it got me a few looks, but it only took a couple of bars and it was like my kids were walking in a funeral procession. Worked like the sweet, sweet musical magic it is.

Spare me. You could be on the bus with a mom on her way to the doctor with a child that has an earache, or fell down getting on and barked a shin and is crying about it and you'd be right there with the other delicate flowers in this thread telling her she's a bad mother and should get off the bus until her "fark trophy" calms down, right?

I swear, every one of these threads is like a catalog of entitled snowflakes. Bunch of candy-asses, I can't believe you can possibly function in the real world.

What the fark do you people do when instead of having an encounter with a child, you run into an adult who is actually an asshole? If you can't handle a child getting worked up, i can't imagine you're well-prepared for the harsh realities of life.

Maybe you should just stay home until you're better prepared to deal with people you might encounter as soon as you leave.

justanothersumguy:I am a big fan of opera. When my two girls used to act up in the store I would begin to belt out the final scene of "Don Giovanni" at the top of my lungs. Yah, it got me a few looks, but it only took a couple of bars and it was like my kids were walking in a funeral procession. Worked like the sweet, sweet musical magic it is.

Doc Daneeka:Infernalist: I love how parents have come to think that ignoring a temper tantrum is the proper course of action to take, ESPECIALLY in public.

It's really the only way to deal with tantrums.

If you give into the child's demands or fall all over yourself to placate him, the child just learns that throwing a tantrum is an effective way to get what they want, and will do it more often in the future. If you drop everything and run out of the store, it's the same deal - the child takes away the lesson that they are in control and can get you to stop and leave a place they don't want to be simply by throwing a tantrum. Threats don't work on a toddler - they're not capable of processing that kind of reasoning, especially when they are in that kind of emotional state.

The only thing to o, if you want to discourage tantrums from happening, is to tell you child calmly that the tantrum won't get them what they want, and then calmly, quickly, and efficiently finish your errand. The child will learn that the tantrum was not an effective way of commanding your attention and actions.

You're wrong. Kids aren't that smart. They're not throwing a tantrum so they can get what they want. They're throwing a fit because they've reached their limit on coping with denial. Those limits are usually low to begin with, but when a child is tired and hungry and just wants to go home, those limits are all but nonexistent.

Take any child in the temper tantrum range, keep them up for hours, no nap, no snack, and see how long they last before they lose their shiat. It's got NOTHING to do with bargaining with the parents. It's got everything to do with their lack of coping.

Learn to put your child down for a nap an hour before you need to leave for the store. Feed them some crackers on the way to the store or in the store. A rested child with a full belly is a happy child that doesn't freak out when you say 'no' to whatever it is that they want.

Contempt, no. They are wonderful people who have always been there for me. Much like the parents of my friends for them, my co-workers, myself for mine, etc. However, many people seem to think that parenting grants magic knowledge or that having (or not having) children affects the truth value of a person's statements, and that I find amusing.

I think you are confusing experience with "magical knowledge". Would you agree that for instance a zoo keeper making statements regarding the care and feeding of zoo animals opinion is more valid on that subject than that of someone who has never had even a pet?

Zookeepers are professionals who have had professional training in the care of animals. Idiot parents, not so much.

I have the privilege of being able to say "No, I don't have kids. But I've worked with abused and behaviorally challenged kids for the last 5 years. The kind of kids of you have to restrain and seclude, then play legos with 30 minutes later. I know a bit."

I never quite understood getting pissed off at parents whose kids throw tantrums in public. Sure, there are places that kids maybe shouldn't be, but they have to learn how to behave in public anyway, and the only way to do that is to take them out into public. And besides, it's way more fun to go talk to the kid (assuming they're not in the process of being punished) and try to distract them from what's upsetting them, especially when you can get them grinning.

And when I have been able to take my cousins on my own (though most of them were past the toddler stage at that point, but not always), they behave great. Because I'm their cousin and not a parent. Same trip with a parent or my grandmother along, and things aren't always as peachy. It does help that if I have them on my own, I have free time and can spoil them with all-day trips to the park and such.

TalenLee:cannibalparrot: I've run into this kind of attitude before...

"You can't have an opinion on abortion! You're a MAN!"

Wow, that sounds quite insane if meant wholeheartedly and not as a shortcut. I have heard "Your opinion about abortion is less valid because you've never experienced any of the related issues," which seems pretty reasonable to me.

i used to get annoyed about kids screaming and being loud in public. Then I had a kid. Now I think its endlessly amusing.

Also, there's a world of difference between tantrum throwing and general normal kid noise. 95% percent of the racket is just kid noise. Kids are noisy. Well behaved kids are also loud at times. It's just the way it is.