Through some fault of my own, I managed to fuck up my cut and lose a shitload of muscle. In ~12 weeks, I went from 216lb to 191lb (as of earlier today) and it didn't look it. I calculated what my body fat should be if I lost 25lb of fat and I'd be at 9%...I look like I'm at 15% and I'm weaker so...fuck.

My original diet was 1800-2000 calories a day, but I've been missing that by anywhere from 300-400 calories (meaning 1400-1500 calories a day) and that's probably why I lost muscle.

So now for the advice part. Should I switch to a clean bulk or properly finish my cut? Properly finishing my cut would be losing ~10lb without losing any more muscle and that would put me at 10% (181lbs). I would then clean bulk up to 200 or so (yes I know it would take forever).

Second part of advice: what should my target calories be at my height/weight/bf% for a proper cut or clean bulk?

Maybe you haven't noticed much of a change because you lose a bit too much muscle mass ? I tried to cut a little fat before beginning a slow bulk and judging by the mirror, I'm losing more fat by eating MORE. I eat 3000 cals on workout days and 2500 on non-workout days compared to 1500-1800 before. Yeah, I know, I'm not eating much, but I'm skinny and I'm slowly upping the cals. The scale was going doing a bit before (lost like 12 lbs in 12 weeks but most of it was muscle mass since there wasn't a noticeable change in the mirror) and now the scale isn't moving... but I can see a difference.

I'm trying to follow Berardi's principles but I eat a a tad less than he suggests. I'm still making progress as of now, I'll up the cals again when progress stops.

Click to expand...

I try to eat 220-250 g of protein, 60-90 g of fat (separated between the 3 types of fat) and carbs vary. I eat like 200 g of carbs on non-workout days and closer to 275 g on workout days. All of the carbs come from veggies and some from fruits, plus I get a lot of carbs from grounded flax seeds (which is awesome : omega-3 fats + fiber + protein). The breakdown can vary quite a lot but I keep eating clean and it's all that matters.

what kind of cardio have you been doing on your cut?
how many calories a day are you burning through?

Click to expand...

Walking to my car and from my car into the gym aka no cardio at all.

Durk said:

Wow, you don't lose water weight

Click to expand...

The amount of water weight I lost is negligible I think...when I started my cut, I went from drinking not a lot of water a day to almost 1.5 gallons. Plus, in the 6 or 7 months prior to my cut I lost a lot of water weight.

andrew_plamondon said:

As I said in the other topic:

I try to eat 220-250 g of protein, 60-90 g of fat (separated between the 3 types of fat) and carbs vary. I eat like 200 g of carbs on non-workout days and closer to 275 g on workout days. All of the carbs come from veggies and some from fruits, plus I get a lot of carbs from grounded flax seeds (which is awesome : omega-3 fats + fiber + protein). The breakdown can vary quite a lot but I keep eating clean and it's all that matters.

Click to expand...

It was your other thread that made me think about it. And yeah...I should probably be ingesting more protein.

You might be a lot weaker now because you're in a calorie deficit...
And you probably lost water weight if you dropped the number of carbs you ate. I can take up to 7-10 lbs of waterweight after a nice cheat day which has plenty of carbs.
Anyway, what I would do is to increase the cals slowly, like 200 cals per week, keep eating clean (a la Berardi works really well for me) and see how your weight fluctuates. I was still losing weight when I was upping the cals at 2500 cals a day even though I was cutting before. I was eating 1500-1800 and I'm a lot skinnier than you so yeah, I guess you should up the cals.

You might be a lot weaker now because you're in a calorie deficit...
And you probably lost water weight if you dropped the number of carbs you ate. I can take up to 7-10 lbs of waterweight after a nice cheat day which has plenty of carbs.

i would up your calories a little, but up your cardio as well.
make sure you are still getting tons of protein.
also, your caloric count is low, but are you eating cleanly/ giving your body what it needs to maintain LBM?

i would up your calories a little, but up your cardio as well.
make sure you are still getting tons of protein.
also, your caloric count is low, but are you eating cleanly/ giving your body what it needs to maintain LBM?

Click to expand...

I don't know...how do you figure maintenance calories? There was another thread that said cutting calories = body weight * 12, which at 216lb would have put me at 2592, which I've been eating well below. At 191 it would be 2292 and I'm still well below that.

As of now, I'm adding ~175ml (2/3 cup) of 1% milk to my morning oatmeal and I'm going to replace the water in my muscle milk with milk. That should add ~300-400 calories a day by itself. My problem is I usually end up missing a meal each day...I try to make the calories/carbs/protein up elsewhere, but it doesn't always work.

I don't know...how do you figure maintenance calories? There was another thread that said cutting calories = body weight * 12, which at 216lb would have put me at 2592, which I've been eating well below. At 191 it would be 2292 and I'm still well below that.

As of now, I'm adding ~175ml (2/3 cup) of 1% milk to my morning oatmeal and I'm going to replace the water in my muscle milk with milk. That should add ~300-400 calories a day by itself. My problem is I usually end up missing a meal each day...I try to make the calories/carbs/protein up elsewhere, but it doesn't always work.

Edit: My mealplan is as follows...

Click to expand...

adaptation and metabolic slowdown. If you've been dieting for months on end at a paltry amount of calories, 12x bodyweight is no longer going to be cutting range for you.

this is exactly why i always tell people to start out high when dieting, and SLOWLY reduce calories over time, and only when necessary to further weight loss.

take time off from dieting. slowly increase calories. let's say by ~ 250 a day for one week, then 250 more the next week, and so on, until you get yourself back up to a reasonable amount...maybe ~2800-3000 or so. You are a 215 pound weight-training man - with a normally functioning metabolism this should be somewhere around the range that you maintain at. Then stay there for a while. hopefully you will regain the strength and muscle you lost. Your weight will probably go up somewhat, you'll have to deal with it. Initially you'll probably put a fair amount of water weight back on (btw this has nothing to do with how much water you are drinking each day, i think you mentioned something to that effect earlier) Then, if you want to continue to cut, start again but this time reduce calories slowly, don't blow your load all at once because you want to get results faster.

take time off from dieting. slowly increase calories. let's say by ~ 250 a day for one week, then 250 more the next week, and so on, until you get yourself back up to a reasonable amount...maybe ~2800-3000 or so. You are a 215 pound weight-training man - with a normally functioning metabolism this should be somewhere around the range that you maintain at. Then stay there for a while. hopefully you will regain the strength and muscle you lost. Your weight will probably go up somewhat, you'll have to deal with it. Initially you'll probably put a fair amount of water weight back on (btw this has nothing to do with how much water you are drinking each day, i think you mentioned something to that effect earlier) Then, if you want to continue to cut, start again but this time reduce calories slowly, don't blow your load all at once because you want to get results faster.

Click to expand...

Work my way up to a clean bulk and up to the weight I was at before, then do a proper cut o)?

I've lost a good amount of fat and I do look better and the last thing I want to do is regain any of that fat

Work my way up to a clean bulk and up to the weight I was at before, then do a proper cut o)?

I've lost a good amount of fat and I do look better and the last thing I want to do is regain any of that fat

Click to expand...

it's not really a clean bulk so much as it's getting your body back to a normal operating range. So what if you put a couple of lbs of fat mass back on - cutting fat is relatively quick and easy compared to building muscle. Or you can eat at 1500 cals for the rest of your life, your call

it's not really a clean bulk so much as it's getting your body back to a normal operating range. So what if you put a couple of lbs of fat mass back on - cutting fat is relatively quick and easy compared to building muscle. Or you can eat at 1500 cals for the rest of your life, your call

Click to expand...

That's a big no to eating 1500 cals for a few more months, let alone the rest of my life

Is it ok if I just flat out take a break from my strict diet? I'll still eat clean here and there, but I'll relax a little more on what I eat. That will make my girlfriend very happy because I'll be able to eat out with her.

That's a big no to eating 1500 cals for a few more months, let alone the rest of my life

Is it ok if I just flat out take a break from my strict diet? I'll still eat clean here and there, but I'll relax a little more on what I eat. That will make my girlfriend very happy because I'll be able to eat out with her.

Click to expand...

this is just my opinion, but i would guess that going from 1500 or whatever you are at now, directly up to whatever you would eat normally when not on a strict diet (say 3000) is going to result in more fat gain then you would get by gradually increasing your intake back up to that level as i recommended.

This has less to do with "eating clean" and more to do with what your body does when presented with a large excess of calories over what it needs.

this is just my opinion, but i would guess that going from 1500 or whatever you are at now, directly up to whatever you would eat normally when not on a strict diet (say 3000) is going to result in more fat gain then you would get by gradually increasing your intake back up to that level as i recommended.

This has less to do with "eating clean" and more to do with what your body does when presented with a large excess of calories over what it needs.

Click to expand...

That makes sense...I'll start by adding milk to a couple of my meals today, then to a couple more meals tomorrow, then I'll up the amount of turkey I put in my sandwich the day after etc. Any idea what the nutritional info is like on turkey breast slices from a deli (a guesstimate should be fine)? Thanks for the help

That makes sense...I'll start by adding milk to a couple of my meals today, then to a couple more meals tomorrow, then I'll up the amount of turkey I put in my sandwich the day after etc. Any idea what the nutritional info is like on turkey breast slices from a deli (a guesstimate should be fine)? Thanks for the help

Click to expand...

~ 250 cals 50g protein / 8 oz.

huge amounts of sodium though, which is not a bad thing really, except that extra sodium in your diet = water retention.

So tomorrow do 2000, 2250 the next, 2500 the next, 2750 the next, then 3000 the next week? At this point, I don't know if I can eat that much food ...I've had a couple days where I ate ~1300 calories and I wasn't even hungry

Edit: What's the quickest/easiest way to add those calories until I get up to the 2800-3000 range? Just add a 1-2 cups of milk each day? I figure that would be easier, then when I'm up to 3000 and maintaining for a while, I'll adjust my actual intake of food (ie more scoops of whey, more oatmeal/egg whites, more turkey in my sandwiches etc).

So tomorrow do 2000, 2250 the next, 2500 the next, 2750 the next, then 3000 the next week? At this point, I don't know if I can eat that much food ...I've had a couple days where I ate ~1300 calories and I wasn't even hungry

Edit: What's the quickest/easiest way to add those calories until I get up to the 2800-3000 range? Just add a 1-2 cups of milk each day? I figure that would be easier, then when I'm up to 3000 and maintaining for a while, I'll adjust my actual intake of food (ie more scoops of whey, more oatmeal/egg whites, more turkey in my sandwiches etc).

Click to expand...

2000 for a week, 2250 for a week, 2500 for a week, etc... so take around 5-6 weeks to get back up to ~ 3000.

i like to eat, so putting more calories into my diet is never a problem for me. I'd probably do it in the form of healthy fats, since it sounds as if you may be deficient in that area.