Breaking News: Perry Noble Is Out at Newspring

I’m not sure if Perry Noble and Newspring church still consider themselves SBC or not, but they have parted ways.

Perry Noble has either resigned or been removed as pastor because of a problem with alcohol abuse that is ongoing and evidently has become severe. Ed Stetzer has an article at Christianity Today that was released this morning.

I’ve never been much of a fan of Perry Noble, but I think we all have to say that one more black eye for the evangelical church is something that is going to hurt us all – at least in the public perspective. That church is likely to suffer the kind of fate that Mars Hill did when Driscoll had his issues – a church built on a personality is going to suffer when that personality falls.

Now, before you moderationists rise up, I do not agree with those who believe the Bible condemns all use of alcohol. I don’t use it – never have. No, Jesus didn’t turn the water to grape juice. But when people begin to use alcohol “moderately” some are going to begin to use alcohol immoderately! That’s why I don’t use it (that, and I’d get fired – plus, the stuff smells like urine!). But if 100 people in my church drink a glass of wine with dinner, a percentage of those is going to become problem drinkers. One? Two? Ten? I don’t know. But it’s one of the best arguments for abstinence. I will never be an alcoholic if I don’t drink my first drink.

I don’t think the guy who has a glass of wine with dinner is sinning, but neither is the guy who picks up a rattlesnake by the tail. Both of them have a chance of getting bit.

The more Christians use alcohol moderately, the more drunkenness we will see.

3. Both sides in the alcohol debate agree on this one.

No one defends drunkenness. Remember that. The moderationist does not defend drinking to excess. His view of drunkenness is the same as the abstentionist’s.

4. This is a tragedy – pray.

Seems trite, but it’s true. This is sad. A lot of people lost their pastor. Yes, many of us think he had bigger problems than his alcohol use, but this is not the time or the place. Maybe it’s not the time or the place to try to make hay on the moderationist/abstentionist debate. This is not the time to heap condemnation on Noble’s style or leadership.

Be sad. Pray for that church. Learn from it.

As a young lady in my church said this morning, “This is a messed up world.”

I am very saddened over the Perry Noble firing. Incredibly tragic and my heart breaks for the church and very impressionable new believers. I don’t think firing him was the best thing. Why not a medical leave? If his alcoholism is a sickness, why not give him a medical leave like he would receive if he had cancer. This could have been a huge redemptive win for the church. What a great statement the church could have said to the world: “As many of you face this same struggle of alcoholism, we are going to rally around our founding pastor as he receives the treatment he needs. We are a redemptive church!” I get it when the pastor is caught having an affair or stealing money or beating his wife. End of the story. Must resign. Alcoholism? Seems to be a medical issue. I don’t drink and would not recommend it to others but hurt for those whose life is wrecked by it.

Was the act of taking the first drink a sickness or a choice? How many drinks for how many days did it take for it to become a “sickness?” Since most take this drug for the purpose of recreation and enjoyment (and not for medicinal purposes as Paul commended to Timothy) at what point are you willing to point to it being beyond mere choice to disease? And at what point is a leader of the church given leeway in the face of those same impressionable believers? We do not know what these church elders did to attempt to get this leader to own his sin and to get help. I believe if we were privy to any behind the scenes maneuvering we may see that there were several attempts to get Perry to health and sobriety without making it a public spectacle. At the same time we MUST accept that there is no two tier system that confronts members in sin and covers leadership failures. If anything, the Christian leader has the heavier burden of accountability – to God and the people he serves.

Indeed…As someone who believes the bible supports the moderation position on alcohol, I also believe that a Pastor needs to be held to a higher standard of conduct. Reaching a point where a Pastor’s alcoholism is literally affecting his ministry, that is every bit as serious as adultery, or stealing, or what not. Like in the other cases, this does not prohibit a future redemption and return to the ministry, but such sin does require removal ASAP once discovered.

He was removed from his position not because of alcohol, but because of what happened in the process with the elders. The statement from the church executive staff reads, “Perry’s posture towards his marriage, increased reliance on alcohol and other behaviors, were of continual concern. Due to this, the Executive Pastors confronted Perry and went through the steps of dealing with sin in the church as outlined in Matthew 18….Because Perry chose not to properly address these ongoing issues and didn’t take the necessary steps toward correcting them, he is no longer qualified, as outlined in 1 Timothy 3 and the church’s bylaws, to continue as a pastor at NewSpring Church.”

Perry Noble *said* there was no sexual sin. However, he is an alcohol abuser and should not be trusted to be telling the truth in anything that he says as this point. Having worked in an alcohol rehab facility, I can well assure you that truth is not foremost in his mind. Minimizing his problem is. Once some counselors get at him, if they do, we might one day learn the full truth. But, for now, nothing is clear except that he abuses alcohol.

July 12, 2016 11:29 pm

Volfan007

These Pastors who preach that drinking liquor is okay need to take a long, hard look at this situation. Alcohol is addictive and destructive. This is so sad.

How is what you are doing different than what Obama does after shooting?

Someone abuses guns, so he condemns everyone who uses guns. Noble abuses alcohol so you condemn everyone who uses it.

How are you and Obama not using EXACTLY the same strategy?

This is a tragedy.
It is certainly cautionary.

But I guess you must agree with Obama that because guns are abused they should be prohibited?

July 10, 2016 3:51 pm

Volfan007

Maybe you need to reread what I said, Dave?

July 10, 2016 4:01 pm

Volfan007

But yes, I do believe that playing around with alcohol is foolish. It’s like kissing a rattlesnake and playing with fire, just as taking pain pills is not sinful, but it would be very foolish to mess around with them. They can get a hold of someone’s life and take them down.

July 10, 2016 4:05 pm

Volfan007

Proverbs 20:1….Wine is a mocker, strong drink a brawler, and whoever is led astray by it is not wise.

July 10, 2016 4:15 pm

Tyler

“But yes, I do believe that playing around with alcohol is foolish. It’s like kissing a rattlesnake and playing with fire” – Surely you can make this argument about guns.

A man’s life is destroyed by his own sin. A church is grieving. It doesn’t seem like the time to try to score points or get the upper hand on our blogging debates.

Maybe it would be better to pray for NewSpring and for the Noble family than to try to make hay in the alcohol debate.

July 10, 2016 5:27 pm

Volfan007

Dave,

I join with you in praying for Perry and his family, and for this church. My heart truly hurts for all of them. May the Lird bring healing to them all.
But, this also serves as a warning to all of us, at the same time. It should make all of us think about issues like the foolishness of drinking, or taking pain pills, or smoking weed. It should make all of us examine our own lives, as well; to see if there’s anything there that’s not wise, or that even displeases our Lord and Savior.

July 10, 2016 5:50 pm

Robin Foster

Thanks for your wise words David.

July 10, 2016 6:55 pm

Tarheel

Good article and responses to comments, Mr. President.

This is heartbreaking. I know very very very little about Perry Noble and/or his ministry – but I do know that the situation is heartbreaking.

Everyone here knows my position on alcohol as a recreational beverage, so I’m not going to bother to comment on that part of the story. It’s not so much that I’m magnanimous as that I bore of having the exact same conversation over and over and over and over again.

I’d like to try to turn the conversation in another direction. It seems like my generation’s crop of celebrity spiritual leaders has disproportionately met with dismal ends. I won’t beat dead horses by naming the litany of names. Every generation features SOME people who wind up as influential leaders only to crash and burn, but the preachers who have achieved celebrity since 2000 or so seem to be failing at an alarmingly high rate.

I think enough of a trend has developed for us to ask a couple of salient questions:

1. Is the problem rooted primarily in whom we are choosing as role models or what we do to them after they are chosen?

2. However one answers the first question, what ought we to do about it?

I tend to think that under the first question the problem primarily lies with whom we are choosing as role models. Demonstrated faithfulness and stability seems not to count for very much. Making a splash seems to count for more. The litany of names in my mind that I declined to enumerate includes a lot of people for whom I felt that I could see problems long, long ago. Why do we advance people with some glaring flaws and promote them as models of ministry to follow?

What to do about it? I think we should be a little more circumspect in our putting people into the front lines with a lot of stripes on their sleeves.

Come to think of it, the first answer (choosing the wrong people) could be related to the second answer (what we do to them). If by choosing the wrong people as our heroes we thrust them into situations of opulence, stress, and temptation that they are not mature enough to bear, is it possible that we ourselves play a role in their eventual downfalls?

Of course, to some degree we don’t get to choose our own celebrity leaders. To some degree, a few publishing houses and media personalities make those decisions on our behalf (and we’re good at following them).

Maybe we ought to leave a few books on the shelves. Perhaps the best thing we could do for the health of Christianity moving forward is for each of us to find an old gray headed faithful pastor in our local area who has done the work faithfully for forty years and reach out to him to try to learn some things from him. He probably could benefit from the recognition and appreciation. We probably could benefit from the advice. It’s doubtful that it will go to his head. It’s doubtful that we’ll find ourselves caught up in the wreckage of a calamitous end down the line.

One little postscript: To do what I’ve suggested, we’ll all have to examine our hearts to make certain that we’d rather BE the guy found faithfully at work after forty years than to be the dazzlingly successful, famous, wealthy, and influential guy for a few years who then crashes and burns. We’ve got to examine our hearts and determine that it is more successful to shepherd a flock of 200 faithfully for 40 years than to draw a crowd of 16,000 for a decade and then burn the whole thing to the ground.

I agree that celebrity infatuation ( both of our own choosing and of the choosing of the publishing houses) is at the crux of the issue.

Evidence of Stability and character certainly matters consequentially, as to whether we should “elevate” leaders – even in choices for president – oh no, I just went there.

July 10, 2016 6:47 pm

Jon

To praise the good in these situations, Driscoll, Patrick, and now Noble have all been removed by church leadership, quietly and respectfully. It seems they set some kind of internal lines, and acted when those lines were crossed.

The old strategy was to prop the man up in the pulpit for the good of the kingdom — until there’s a public scandal that can’t be reconciled. Then you’d find the long list of people crushed by similar behavior that had been hushed up.

The latest news stories have started “The leaders of X Church announced…” It seems they used to start “Eyewitness News has uncovered….” That’s a step forward.

July 10, 2016 7:04 pm

Debbie Kaufman

You have made a good point Jon and it is a step forward. One that hopefully continues.

My prayers for Perry who must be in a lot of pain right now.

July 10, 2016 7:06 pm

Max

I’m not a fan of plurality of elders polity, but in the cases you note such church governance worked! The elders did the hard, but right, thing in stepping up to the plate to discipline these senior pastors. After repeated attempts to reverse the behavior of these men, the elders rightfully declared enough is enough. And in each case, they are faced with cleaning up the mess and dealing with the disillusioned who have seen their leaders fall.

As the young lady in Dave’s church said “This is a messed up world.” I would add that the institutional church (not the Church) is also messed up in far too many corners. I’m old enough to remember when most preachers exhorted the pew to holiness and purity, and walked a holy life before them to match their preaching. Sad days.

1 Cor 10:12 is apropos as well as a reminder we are children of the day and need to be alert and sober

July 10, 2016 8:42 pm

pastorspaceboy

Pray for Perry Noble and New Spring. Pray for all our pastors whether you agree with them or not. Pray for a return to biblical preaching and values. Pray for revival starting with you and me. Pray for a Jonathan Edwards and a sermon like a “Sinners in a Hand of a Hand of a Angry God” that ignited a Great Awakening in America!

It does appear that the church is handling the situation in a scriptural fashion, and that Perry is finally acknowledging specific sins (where none of us are immune). Our church will be praying for Perry, his family, and extended church family. And, we look forward to seeing God work miracles,…again!

It has been debated for years whether alcoholism is a sin or a disease.
A psychology professor of mine once said, maybe alcoholism has the characteristics of both, sin and disease?

Is addiction a disease? It does have some of those characteristics.
Is alcohol addiction a sin? Yes, the Bible says so.

And, we can’t just excuse someone who is an alcoholic by saying it was the disease that did it. For example, a man in a drunk driving accident that kills a couple of innocent people; we can’t just excuse him because he has the disease of alcoholism, and we don’t.

Some have said –
If alcoholism is a disease:
It is the only disease that is contracted by an act of the will.
It is the only disease that requires a license to propagate.
It is the only disease that is bottled and sold.
It is the only disease that requires outlets to spread it.
It is the only disease that produces a revenue for the government.
It is the only disease that provokes crime.
It is the only disease that is habit forming.
It is the only disease spread by advertising.
It is the only disease for which we are fined for contracting.
It is the only disease which brings death on the highways.
It is the only disease without a germ or virus cause, and for which there is no human corrective medicine.
It is the only disease that bars the patient from Heaven, for no drunkard (unless he repents and trusts Christ as his Savior) shall inherit the kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:9-10).

-David R. Brumbelow

July 11, 2016 11:04 am

Max

“What about Paul when he told the elders not to be addicted to much wine? He didn’t say don’t drink it, he said don’t be addicted to it. Big difference … The Bible doesn’t say you can’t drink. It says you can’t get drunk. It is a sin and wrong to get drunk.” (Perry Noble, “Can a Christian Smoke, Drink & Watch a Rated R Movie”, Dec. 20, 2013)

July 11, 2016 1:46 pm

Tarheel

I find nothing in that Perry Noble statement, as you linked it, to be bibilcally unsound.

He sinned when he got drunk – he admitted that in his statement, too.

Alcohol consumption is not a sin in and of itself – drunkenness is.

July 11, 2016 3:19 pm

Max

Agreed. The NewSpring elders held Noble accountable to his own preaching.

The Bible says Jesus turned water to wine, not alcohol.
The Greek word used for wine is oinos, a word used for both alcoholic wine, and nonalcoholic wine.
So, if you believe Jesus turned water into alcohol, that is your interpretation, not you just taking what the Bible says.

“In Jesus’ miracle at Cana of Galilee (John 2:1-11), one can neither affirm with certainty that Jesus turned the water into a non-intoxicating wine nor that He drank no wine Himself.” -Paige Patterson

“It was a wonderful miracle, and yet, after all, it was just a duplication of what our Lord Jesus Christ has been doing for millenniums on ten thousand hillsides, changing water into wine.” -H. A. Ironside

“When a bunch of grapes are hanging on the vine, it’s called wine (Isaiah 65:8).”
“Did Jesus turn water into wine? Jesus turned water into oinos. Is that the kind of drink that would make a person drunk? Of course not!”
“Do you think Jesus had anything to do with making people drunk? If you do, you don’t know the Jesus that I know.” -Adrian Rogers

Amen, David B. Jesus absolutely would not contribute to the drunkenness of the wedding party. Because, if they were drinking undiluted, fermented wine, then Jesus would’ve been a bad bartender, contributing to their drunken condition. And, that’s not only absurd, but it’s blasphemous!

Most people start drinking to try to “fit in” with the crowd. Their buddies drink, so they drink, too. And, the rest drink liquor, because they want to get high, or drunk on alcohol.

The Bible teaches the foolishness of messing around with alcohol. Proverbs teaches very clearly how foolish it is to play around with strong drink(undiluted, fermented wine).

David

July 12, 2016 10:55 am

Tarheel

David B.,

“The Greek word used for wine is oinos, a word used for both alcoholic wine, and nonalcoholic wine. So, if you believe Jesus turned water into alcohol, that is your interpretation, not you just taking what the Bible says. ”

Wouldn’t that argument, by definition, also be true about those who insist it was grape juice?

July 12, 2016 3:12 pm

David Worley

Tarheel,

You’re missing his point. David B. is saying that oinos doesn’t ALWAYS have to be interpreted as fermented wine. Depending on the context, oinos can mean fermented, or unfermented. It can mean alcohol, or it can mean grape juice. It all depends on the context.

July 12, 2016 3:31 pm

Tarheel

Its probably best that we all reread Romans 14 and just strive be more sensitive to each other as we live under own Christian consciences – giving each other room, without judgment, to live within the freedoms or lack of freedoms of each believers Christian Conscience.

July 12, 2016 3:33 pm

Tarheel

Vol,

OK. Context – the custom of the day was not the consume grape juice at weddings. It would have made no sense in context, for Jesus to turn water into grape juice. (The master of the feast would not likely have been pleased with grape juice – but he was pleased with what Jesus turned the water into.)

Tarheel,
Yes, I agree.
The Bible says Jesus turned water to oinos.
Just based on this word, you cannot prove He made alcoholic wine, or nonalcoholic wine. Oinos was used both ways.
So, either view is an interpretation.

Scripture says Jesus turned water into wine, it does not say Jesus turned water into alcohol.

I can, however, present biblical evidence that I believe greatly strengthens my view that Jesus turned water into unfermented wine. And on this point, you and I will probably disagree.

David R. Brumbelow

July 12, 2016 3:52 pm

Tarheel

David B. Thank you.

My biggest question about the wedding, as it relates to this discussion, is this: Why would the master of the feast comment as he did if it were grape juice? Was it the custom to drink grape juice as weddings? I do not think it was. It would have been even more strange to the master of the feast, I would think, if when the servants brought him wine he tasted grape juice.

My reply to you would be that both kinds of wine were common and both rather easily available back then, much like today. In Bible times they excelled in vineyards, grapes, raisins, vinegar, and all kinds of wine.

We have weddings today with alcohol served. We also have many weddings today where no alcohol is served. I imagine it was the same back then.
And, ancients often spoke of and commended unfermented wine. Nehemiah even said to drink the sweet (8:10), one translation says, sweet wine.

Two reasons why many preferred unfermented wine back then.

One, many did not want to become drunk, much like today.

Two, many preferred the sweetness. People crave sweet things, and they did not have much of it back then (only from fruit or honey, no cane sugar). Fermentation took away the sweetness.

So I see no problem with the idea they had unfermented wine at the wedding. Jesus supplied another 120 gallons of wine; that’s a lot of wine. And if Jesus made it, it’s easy to imagine it was better than their previous wine. Even if it, and both, were unfermented.

[Paige] Patterson acknowledges,
“References to wine are frequent in both the Old and New Testaments,” though the Greek word “oinos” in the New Testament can refer to freshly pressed grape juice as well as low-grade wine.

Most people drink alcohol because they either want to get high, or drunk; and many drink it to just try to fit in with the crowd. You know, their buddies are drinking, and they don’t want to stand out. They want to accepted.

“Most people drink alcohol because they either want to get high, or drunk; and many drink it to just try to fit in with the crowd. You know, their buddies are drinking, and they don’t want to stand out. They want to accepted.”

How do you know this? I know and have known many, many people over the last 30 years who drink in moderation. Adults. Christians. Responsible people. Zero of them, to my knowledge by knowing them personally, fit that description. None.

July 12, 2016 6:03 pm

Tarheel

That is some sweeping generalizations, there Vol.

Ever think that some people like the taste of certain kinds. Some people actually prefer a bit of bitter drink.

To assume that people only do it to get drunk or to play the popularity game is to assume negativity upon some of your bothers and sisters who enjoy an occasional glass of wine or a beer for neither reason.

Vol, you holding the view you hold is completely acceptable – what is not OK is to assume such negativity on brothers and sisters (since we are talking about Christians and moderation) or when you insist that those of good faith who disagree with you are in the wrong.

I do wonder though why Romans 14 is never engaged with when brought up in these discussions.

July 12, 2016 6:04 pm

Tyler

I have countless Christian friends who drink. I’ve been there when they drank (though I didn’t). Not one of them got drunk or tipsy. Others got drunk before they were saved, but as far as I know none of them have been drunk since.

Also, most 21 -40 year olds are not trying to be “cool” or “fit in with the crowd.” This is not junior high. They just like the taste.

July 12, 2016 7:41 pm

David Worley

I have known many teens, who did not drink, until they went to college and joined a Fraternity or Sorority. Peer pressure. I’ve known many adults, who didn’t start drinking until “everyone at the office drinks and goes to a bar after work,” or, “girls night out, all the other girls are drinking and laughing, because liquor has them feeling tipsy, so to fit in.” Most people that I know, who drink hooch, started drinking it due to peer pressure. In fact, that’s why I first drank alcohol and smoked weed….because of my cousins.

Anyway, with all the good drinks, out there, today, why drink alcohol? I mean, we’ve got everything from lemonade to sweet tea to cherry coke. Why add liquor to the equation? Why? To get high on it….drunk.

I thought you were not going to be at the convention, so I didn’t look around for you. I wish we had met up and remembered our MABTS days. Would have been fun.

But on this, “I have known many teens, who did not drink, until they went to college and joined a Fraternity or Sorority. Peer pressure.” And so on…

If you had said that earlier, I think we would all have agreed with you. “Teens” being the operative word. But you said, “Most people drink alcohol because they either want to get high, or drunk; and many drink it to just try to fit in with the crowd.” And with that you swept up me and all the adults I know into your blanket statement.

Hi David. It was great to meet you and dine next to you at the 316 dinner.

“the relaxing effects”Yes, that is one reason some consume. Ken in another comment talked about the medicinal effects wine has on him, and studies have shown on others. One may liken it to that ever popular morning drink…coffee. It has an opposite effect than wine. Instead of relaxation, it tends to the waking effect and jumpstarting one.

July 12, 2016 6:31 pm

Tarheel

Yeah. Let’s make some resolutions about the use of caffeine “pick me ups” – same concept guys.

July 12, 2016 9:12 pm

Volfan007

Les,

You met me and ate next to me at the 316 dinner? Are you kidding? You weren’t at my table; were you? This is so embarrassing. I must have gone brain dead for a moment. Why didn’t you jar me out of my stupor? Lol Good grief, I must have just not recognized your name at all?!?!? Maybe I had been drinking!!!!! Lol

Wow. lol. I was thinking about the people sitting around me and thinking which one you were! lol. I didn’t think I met you, or I would’ve recognized your name. I wish I would’ve met you, but the crowd was large.

David

July 13, 2016 10:02 am

absonjourney

David B.

For a teetotaler you sure seem to think you know a lot about non-alcoholic vs. alcoholic beverage tastes. Let me just correct your misconception. You are completely wrong.

If someone drinks crappy pale beer or very cheap wine you may have a case, but good beer and good wine are not replicable in non-alcoholic form. There is no comparison.

So just like you are wrong about oinos you are wrong about this one as well. And truthfully, you are really uncharitable in your characterization of your fellow Christians who enjoy an occasional drink. Your constant insinuations that they enjoy a beverage simply to get a buzz is wrongheaded and unkind. Many simply enjoy the taste or the complexity of drinking something that isn’t mass produced, or is crafted skillfully.

Maybe it’s time to stop reciting the same talking points over and over again and instead actually engage with people who think differently than you with an open mind. Just as I think you have something to bring to this conversation, so do they.

July 12, 2016 11:45 pm

Tyler

Yea, like I’ve said. My close friends have never been drunk since I’ve known them. Ive gone out with them when they had alcohol and they went to bed sober the same night.

July 13, 2016 8:59 am

David Worley

Abson and Tyler,

Whether you drink, or not, is between you and God. But, David B, CB, and I all think it’s foolish to mess around with something that can get a hold of your life, and take you down, as it did to Perry Noble, and to many others. We’re not saying that you’re sinning against God. We just feel that it’s foolish to use alcohol as a beverage, as is taught in the Proverbs, and as we see the destructiveness of alcohol and other drugs all around us. The drunk driving wrecks and people killed; men beating their wife because of alcohol; girls having sex due to the influence of whiskey; people getting into fights, because of the influence of liquor. I mean, homes destroyed; marriages torn apart; FAS; and a host of other things just make the use of alcohol very unwise.
Then, the weaker brother, and causing others to stumble arguments also weigh in. For example, maybe you can drink in moderation and handle it. But, your children are watching. And, what if they drink, because Mama and Daddy did. But, your daughter, or son can’t handle it. And, they become a full out drunk. Then, you would be guilty of leading them astray; not to mention your heart being absolutely broken.
But anyway, I love yall in the Lord. But, I have to express my beliefs and convictions. I’ve prayed over this issue. Thought on it. Studied on it. And, I really believe it’s not wise, at all, to use alcohol. And, of course, it’s absolutely sinful to get high, or drunk on liquor. The joy of the Lord is our strength; not the joy of Jack Daniels. Being filled with the Spirit is 10,000 times better than being filled by drugs.

David

July 13, 2016 10:11 am

cb scott

I agree with Vol in his comment here.

In honesty, even when I was lost, I did not drink hardly ever. My line of work was of such a nature that I needed all my wits about me at all times. I saw good men go down or make costly mistakes, not because they were poor at what they did, but because of booze the night before.

When I became a believer in Jesus, it was not a great leap for me to believe in and promote abstinence as the best life practice for a Christ follower, especially those living in the American culture.

When my wife and I adopted a child with FAS and I became educated as to its cause and effects, I most certainly believe that women in their child-bearing years should not use alcohol as a beverage and their husbands should abstain to provide a “protection” to their wives by setting the standard of conduct in the family. (I realize that last comment may be taken bad by the feminists among us, but so be it.)

Les Prouty,
enjoyed eating with you as well at the Connect316 Banquet at the SBC. Wish we had a little more time to visit.
Also enjoyed visiting with David Worley and Ron Hale.
David Worley was not drinking; I sniffed his water bottle just to make sure.

While everyone is hooting over this, don’t forget that there is yet another mega-church pastor who has fallen, with thousands of disillusioned followers this week. The ramifications of his abuse of alcohol is reaching far into church ranks. The world looks on and says “I told you so” as another byword and reproach gets recorded in church history. All because of alcohol.

July 15, 2016 10:31 am

Tarheel

1. Geez. Lighten up.

2. Perry Noble had problems/issues those issues would have manifested themselves in another way had it not been for alcohol – to blame alcohol is simplistic and not very helpful.

3. In furtherance of point number two – we don’t say when I pastor has an affair with a woman or embezzles funds – this happened all because of women and money.

July 15, 2016 11:00 am

Max

“… those issues would have manifested themselves in another way had it not been for alcohol …”

True. It would be best to sum up the sad situation by saying “All because of sin.” That line would fit numerous sinful failures by church leaders in recent years. In this case, alcoholism in the pulpit was the underlying sin.

Dave, I referring to the side-bar humorous exchange by some the commenters concluded by Volfan’s “hoot” remark. Guess I just took it the wrong way. We all need to be burdened and weeping over this hit to the church.