Topic poll

For one month I have been trying to buy another pinball machine. I find a Whirlwind for sale that a guy had offered to me a couple of months ago and still had. I make a good offer on it and was going to buy it in utah. He says he will not sell it and hold it for me. One day before I go to get it he sells it without even contacting me. Now I had recently put a post on pinside for anyone in Utah or NV that had a machine for sale to please contact me." Donjagra" sends me a letter on pinside mail telling me he had a BSD pin that he was going to sell for $2000 and would sell it to me for $1800 because I was a pinsider. I told him I was very interested and would come and buy the machine on Thursday as I was coming to SLC anyway as long as it was in good condition as he only sent me a few pictures. Today I call "Donjagra" to confirm again that I will be there Thursday. He informs me that he observed another BSD machine sell for more on Ebay so he couldnt sell it to me now that he thought it was worth" more". Am I missing something here or is a" mans "word worth anything any more. If I tell someone Im going to do something my word is worth more than a couple hundred bucks . This sucks!

same thing going on from some of the guys on here and RGP. You find a deal, the next guy is late, then offers more to try and get it...that's why none of these guys wants anybody to post stuff they see forsale on CL....the price is the price PERIOD. Just bad business and a bunch of BS

<<<Am I missing something here or is a" mans "word worth anything any more. If I tell someone Im going to do something my word is worth more than a couple hundred bucks .>>>

I feel for you and understand. I was chumped about a year ago for a lousy $50 on a pin. I had a verbal phone call deal and I was on my way Sun morning to pick up the pin. Next Morning I call to confirm and the seller says I sold it and got $50 more last night. I said, "Why did you at least not call me at the time and allow me a chance to bid higher on your broken word as a gentleman"? He became upset (with guilt I suppose) and hung up the phone. Lol.

My word is very important to me. Handshake even more...I would die before breaking a deal and trust me I have had countless opportunities to screw my fellow man/woman over in deals in 30 years. I choose not to, like you:) At least we do not have to worry or look over our backs:)

The world is lacking so much in courtesy and integrity these days:( So sad!

I had the opposite experience with someone from pinside. Just purchased a w?d and in 1 business day was palleted ready for shipping. That being said I would bet that's far from normal. I am very straight forward and honest and all you can hope for is the same on the other side. Unfortunately my faith in a persons word has been shaken over the years due to business. So I don't get my hopes up until cash has changed hands

As for the OP,
That sure sucks about the BSD, most people forget that eBay fleeces it's sellers like no other site on Earth, hence the higher prices to offset the fees. Unless it was over $500 more than originally offered I doubt he would've made any more profit ($50-$100?) rather than just selling it to you at the price agreed upon. Plus, there would have been much less headache in the process!
Oh well,
Good luck with the next one jhanley!

So on Sunday, the day after Pinfest I reach out to a good guy I sold my beautiful clear coated Whirlwind to about a year ago. I was lamenting about the condition of the Whirlwind at Pinfest and just thought I let him know to keep me in mind when he finally gets sick of his.

I have bought 2 of my machines from pinsiders and both have been great deals from great people! I think your chance of a deal with another pinsider going awry is extremely less than dealing with some of the mutants off eBay and CL....though there are deals to be had with fair players I am sure.

Sorry of your bad deal. I haven't had anything happen like that on the forum and met several really nice people. Someone's word doesn't mean much. People aren't on the level and makes me wish we could black ball them all.

Just know there are still some people that stick to their word out there. They're just harder to come across nowadays.

When I first inquired about the pin I asked "Donjagra" why he wanted to sell it. He said the "theme " was to scary for his little kids. When he called me today after he talked to his wife he informed me that they decided to just "keep" it. Complete BS if you ask me!

This is where I must disagree. When you make a deal, it becomes personal. It is bad business to change the deal, or break it for that matter, after an agreement has been reached by both parties.

To me, it's like buying a car. You go in, choose it, agree on a price, and go to secure financing. When you get approved, the dealer changes the price, because the dealer across the street is selling the same car for more money.

JDub1006 said:It sucks when this happens but it is business not personal.
This is where I must disagree. When you make a deal, it becomes personal. It is bad business to change the deal, or break it for that matter, after an agreement has been reached by both parties.
To me, it's like buying a car. You go in, choose it, agree on a price, and go to secure financing. When you get approved, the dealer changes the price, because the dealer across the street is selling the same car for more money.
Just my opinion.

+1. Bait and switch is B.S. same holds true for the buyer. I purchased a ToM from a well respected vendor (who was also at Allentown). A few days after giving my deposit I saw a machine in equal condition for 200 less. Rather than haggle over the 200, I committed to paying the agreed upon price. Best decision. Vendor drove it to my house personally, brought it down a flight of stairs and set it up including showing me how to maintain it top to bottom. If you are a proper business person just stand by your word.

It's pretty difficult to get the "good deals" on the pinball machines. It seems that the best deals are the unadvertised ones. Just like landing a job, networking is key.

If you are just interested in nabbing machines you want for good deals, you will have your share of heartaches and botched deals.

I personally dont look for good deals, just good games.... you start monkeying around with price and you always leave the door open for someone to swoop in and do the same, while upping the ante.
I have actually met and formed really good friendships all over the country from people I have bought games from and also people I have sold too.
Again, I am looking for really good games, I know what to look for, and can make up my mind within 60 seconds on what I see. You would be suprised on how quickly you can build a name, a network, and a positive reputation.
If Someone blows you off, thats just one person to put on your list to never to deal with again. You would be suprised how small this hobby is, one day that person might becoming to you.
Then again, they could be a big collector and have more stuff you want see how this works.

good luck and dont sweat the small stuff
there are plenty of BSD's out there in the world

Stack15 said:It's pretty difficult to get the "good deals" on the pinball machines. It seems that the best deals are the unadvertised ones. Just like landing a job, networking is key.
If you are just interested in nabbing machines you want for good deals, you will have your share of heartaches and botched deals.
I personally dont look for good deals, just good games.... you start monkeying around with price and you always leave the door open for someone to swoop in and do the same, while upping the ante.
I have actually met and formed really good friendships all over the country from people I have bought games from and also people I have sold too.
Again, I am looking for really good games, I know what to look for, and can make up my mind within 60 seconds on what I see. You would be suprised on how quickly you can build a name, a network, and a positive reputation.
If Someone blows you off, thats just one person to put on your list to never to deal with again. You would be suprised how small this hobby is, one day that person might becoming to you.
Then again, they could be a big collector and have more stuff you want see how this works.
good luck and dont sweat the small stuff
there are plenty of BSD's out there in the world
Scott
Detroit Pinball

Its not just BSD. I live in a small town 225 miles from any pins to buy. Im very limited at what I can buy.

I get the "don't sweat the small stuff" comments to try and help put things in perspective. But, OP has a right to be pissed for a few days at least. I'm also someone that believes that when you give you word it means something. That's why the world is so screwed up. People forget what manners and being a decent human being are all about. Its all me, me, me. Ticks me off when people can't even hold the door open when you're walking behind them or don't walk a little faster when crossing the street when you're waiting. Entitlement. Just sad.

I've had good experiences in this hobby for the most part because I like to talk to the person before I commit to a deal to increase odds of them being a straight shooter. So far only one deal not so good. Sorry this happened. There are still many of us honorable types around.

I get the "don't sweat the small stuff" comments to try and help put things in perspective. But, OP has a right to be pissed for a few days at least. I'm also someone that believes that when you give you word it means something. That's why the world is so screwed up. People forget what manners and being a decent human being are all about. Its all me, me, me. Ticks me off when people can't even hold the door open when you're walking behind them or don't walk a little faster when crossing the street when you're waiting. Entitlement. Just sad.
I've had good experiences in this hobby for the most part because I like to talk to the person before I commit to a deal to increase odds of them being a straight shooter. So far only one deal not so good. Sorry this happened. There are still many of us honorable types around.

Thats good to know. The first guy I bought a pin from was very honest with me. Ill get over it but jeez when it happens over and over it gets a little ridiculous.

Not for nothing and I get what everyone is saying but you cant expect every seller to be straight up. I live in NY and if im on my way to pick up a pin from someone I dont know the deal is not done untill the pin is loaded in my car. Dont count your chickens b4 they hatch my mom always said. It does suck but what r u gunna do.

Edit: I just bought a nib Tron. Its on the way paid in full. I did not put it in my profile as a current pin bc its not in my house yet. So if its in an accident or struck by lightning I wont get to upset bc i dont count chickens.

It is frustrating when somebody offers to sell you something and you believe you have the deal for what they asking for the item and then it falls apart.

I recently had a Pinsider email me first offering to sell me a playfield I need for my machine. I told him I would take it and pay him his asking price and Paypal the money to him right away. My machine is tore apart right now (thinking I had a new playfield coming). Now I can not get a response at all from him. The last communication was last Thursday. I assumed he went to Pinfest so he was away for awhile but I've seen him post on threads. Why tell somebody you will sell them a playfield and then never follow through in a timely fashion?? I won't call him out in public because I don't roll like that. Plus he could have a good reason but posting in a thread takes the same amount of time as a email.

It is frustrating when somebody offers to sell you something and you believe you have the deal for what they asking for the item and then it falls apart.

I recently had a Pinsider email me first offering to sell me a playfield I need for my machine. I told him I would take it and pay him his asking price and Paypal the money to him right away. My machine is tore apart right now (thinking I had a new playfield coming). Now I can not get a response at all from him. The last communication was last Thursday. I assumed he went to Pinfest so he was away for awhile but I've seen him post on threads. Why tell somebody you will sell them a playfield and then never follow through in a timely fashion?? I won't call him out in public because I don't roll like that. Plus he could have a good reason but posting in a thread takes the same amount of time as a email.

Not trying to hijack the thread but my story is similar to yours.

Usually I wont roll like that, but this time Ive had enough. I'm sick of these phonies that dont stand by their word. This guy is one of the top people that post on this website.

Why limit your buying and selling to 225 miles, over half of my games have come from different parts of the country, I believe 4 from the Phoenix area alone. Shipping is nothing for the right game. I live in pinball Meca, but why would I want to limit my scope, when there are Plenty of Great/ Outstanding collectors outside of Michigan and Ohio.

Again, its a small hobby, trust me you may bump into this person at a show...
I am not saying it gives permision for people to screw each other, quite the opposite in fact.

detroit_pinball said:jhanley said:I live in a small town 225
Why limit your buying and selling to 225 miles, over half of my games have come from different parts of the country, I believe 4 from the Phoenix area alone. Shipping is nothing for the right game. I live in pinball Meca, but why would I want to limit my scope, when there are Plenty of Great/ Outstanding collectors outside of Michigan and Ohio.
Again, its a small hobby, trust me you may bump into this person at a show...
I am not saying it gives permision for people to screw each other, quite the opposite in fact.
good luck, There is a super nice BSD right around the corner...
Scott
Detroit Pinball
2 of the 3 times out of 12 years that I have felt the same way as you, I have become friends with those same people, over time.

I have no way of jumping on deals from where I live. I take care of 3 kids and cant just leave any time I want.

In a cash transaction, the deal is done when money switches hands. In an ideal world you'd have a point, but I have a feeling you haven't been at this very long. If you had, your expectations would be a lot lower.

If you can't pick the game up right away, offer a PayPal deposit. I've been screwed out of games I've paid for in full before, but it takes a super special piece of crap to screw you once the game is technically yours.

Also, keep in mind, for every buyer that has had a game sold out from under them, there is a seller that lost potential buyers as the guy who swore he'd show up to buy it is not picking up the phone all of a sudden.

If you can't pick the game up right away, offer a PayPal deposit. I've been screwed out of games I've paid for in full before, but it takes a super special piece of crap to screw you once the game is technically yours.

Wow, I've not had this happen to me. I've been perfectly willing to put down deposits. In your case you paid the full amount and they still sold your game? Did you get your money back?

In a cash transaction, the deal is done when money switches hands. In an ideal world you'd have a point, but I have a feeling you haven't been at this very long. If you had, your expectations would be a lot lower.
If you can't pick the game up right away, offer a PayPal deposit. I've been screwed out of games I've paid for in full before, but it takes a super special piece of crap to screw you once the game is technically yours.
Also, keep in mind, for every buyer that has had a game sold out from under them, there is a seller that lost potential buyers as the guy who swore he'd show up to buy it is not picking up the phone all of a sudden.

No I havent been doing this for very long. All I can compare it to is just yesterday I sold my jetski to a guy for $900. Hes picking it up today but if someone offered me $1200 before he picked it up I would never sell it from under him because I am a man of my word.Something that is getting rarer these days.

Yah, I eventually got my money back. It was a decent deal, but not smoking. I paid the night before, PayPal in full, and he decided to run a craigslist auction after that. He tried to give me some BS about how I didn't technically pay for it because it takes PayPal 3 days to get him the money or something. It was nuts. Actually, he's lucky I'm not a nut, he had already given me his address. He ended up getting $150 more, but for $150 was it really worth potential trouble?

I've grown sick of all the Craigslist BS so I'm just very honest with people. If I'm available and they aren't, I'll set up a time with them but make it clear that I'm not holding it for anyone. If it's me that has the scheduling issue and they are flexible, I'll hold it for them.

The one thing I never understood, if you want to sell it to the first person who pays you cash, just say that. If you can't pick the game up for a couple days and someone beats you to it, that's life. But why even tell someone you are going to hold it?

No I havent been doing this for very long. All I can compare it to is just yesterday I sold my jetski to a guy for $900. Hes picking it up today but if someone offered me $1200 before he picked it up I would never sell it from under him because I am a man of my word.Something that is getting rarer these days.

I guess it depend who you are. Although I scrape every extra nickel to buy a pin...there's no way I would go back on my word for more cash...on a sale

Case in point I offered up a pin for sale an put it pretty much everywhere. Well MrPinball must have had some issues because the add didn't post for 4-5 days. I made a deal with a pinsider for the sale of the game. Before the game was picked up or shipped, I had a full asking price offer ($250 more than I sold it for) from a relatively local guy that saw the add on MrPinball. Of course that would have also saved me packaging and palletting...leaving work to meet the shipping company...etc. There's no $ amount you can put on your word... or a 'handshake.'

On a side note I've never made a deal to buy a pin (CL included..and I've 'stolen' a few from CL) and got backed out on from the seller.

I've bought one pin on craigslist and one pin from a pinsider. The craigslist person tried jacking up my agreed upon price when I got there. He said "Another person offered him more and is in route to pick it up". I said "Sell it to him then" and drove home. A couple days later he called back and said the guy never made it and I could have it for the original price. Well I really wanted it so I went back and got it even tho I shouldn't have , just on principle.

The pin I bought from a pinsider (Stangbat) was the easiest and most enjoyable experience I have had with buying a pin or arcade. I would highly recommend Stangbat as a great seller.

You wont believe the story of the Whirlwind the guy was supposed to hold for me. Before I got my Earthshaker I went on pinball owners website and asked people with Whirlwinds if they wanted to sell. Well after I bought the ES a guy from Utah said he had one. I didnt have the money at that time so I didnt follow up. I saw the WW on ebay about a month later and was watching to see if it was going to sell. It was on there about 3 months as he was asking $2100 and it wasnt in very good shape. I eventually talked my wife into another pin so I contacted him. He didnt want to ship it so I offered $1600 and he agreed to hold it for me. He specifically said he would not sell it from under me.I was going to LV anyway and it was only a 100 miles from there. 2 days before I was to pick it up he sold it to someone in Las Vegas . He sent me a E mail telling me tough luck but they offered more. Two days later me and my wife had business in Las Vegas .I went to the Pinball Hall of Fame and asked the pin tech there if he knew of any places to buy a machine.He told me there was a billiards place near the airport that sold pins. I found the place and what do you know. Theres the Whirlwind that was promised to me sitting right there in the store. I talked to the sales guy and told him the story and he tried to sell it to me for $3000. The prices in that store were outrageous. They didnt make any sense, the prices were all over the place. What was weird was the store was about 100 yards from where my house was where I grew up in Las Vegas. Theres a warehouse there now.

In a cash transaction, the deal is done when money switches hands. In an ideal world you'd have a point, but I have a feeling you haven't been at this very long. If you had, your expectations would be a lot lower.
If you can't pick the game up right away, offer a PayPal deposit. I've been screwed out of games I've paid for in full before, but it takes a super special piece of crap to screw you once the game is technically yours.

Also, keep in mind, for every buyer that has had a game sold out from under them, there is a seller that lost potential buyers as the guy who swore he'd show up to buy it is not picking up the phone all of a sudden.

No I havent been doing this for very long. All I can compare it to is just yesterday I sold my jetski to a guy for $900. Hes picking it up today but if someone offered me $1200 before he picked it up I would never sell it from under him because I am a man of my word.Something that is getting rarer these days.

Wanna know why this kind of thing is happening more often these days?

A bad economy, and people who WILL break their word for several hundred dollars
more in profit.

For some people their "word" doesn't put groceries on the dinner table,
but the extra dollars in profit will.

That's how they can easily rationalize their decision
to break a deal with one person and start another deal with someone that's willing to pay
them more for their pin.

I definitely don't approve of or endorse this kind of deal breaking, but I do understand
how people could choose to do it when money is involved.

So you are saying your word means nothing? If I make a verbal agreement on the phone or in a message with a person that deal stands. More money will not make me go back on my word.

I just had a deal go bad on my Legend car. We agreeded on a price but the guy said he needed a week to get money and trailer. That weekend he went a found a different deal and will not answer or return my calls. Other drivers told me what he did. I have known him a while and thoguht his word was good. I was wrong, his word is crap and I will not longer value is word.

It's pretty simple. We reap what we sow. It's a small hobby, and word travels fast. If a person develops a reputation as someone who does not honor their word, they will quickly be shunned by the community.