Sport

Rovers offer value with new ticket prices

Blackburn Rovers are once again offering one of the best-value season ticket deals in the country for the forthcoming campaign.

On sale from tomorrow, Rovers fans can purchase an adult season ticket in the Riverside for JUST £249 – the equivalent of less than £11 per game!

Adult season tickets in the Ronnie Clayton Blackburn End and Bryan Douglas Darwen End cost just £279, while seniors and young adults (aged 17-21) can watch the 2014-15 season unfold at Ewood Park from £159 – less than £7 per game!

Comments (92)

Open letter to the Happy-Clappers/Venky
s Apologists/Venkys Deniers.
The Happy -Clappers dogma, inflexibility and immorality in the way they engage with true Rovers fans has begun to rear its cynical head recently as they suddenly seem to be the dominant voice on these discussion pages now that things are looking good again; shoving shame down the throats of those genuine Rovers fans that still continue to ask awkward questions.
I have read a lot of Happy-Clappers on the internet trying to engage in all kinds of arguments whilst discussing what the Venkys have done to Rovers; many of these Venkys Apologists that present themselves as emissaries of moderation are on the 'Blame the Rovers fans' side of the debate and it is fascinating listening to and watching how they interpret events through the prism of their deeply entrenched belief system - 'beliefs' about what they consider to be 'moral truths' but these 'truths' are nothing more than Orwellian Newspeak where reality is turned upside down - hate is love, war is peace.
I genuinely wonder whether some of these people are in the employ of the dastardly Venkys - sitting on their large wobbly bottoms in front of computers whilst they operate a full scale lying propaganda machine attempting to command and organise the organs of public opinion and our perception of reality through a manipulation of history.
If these so-called Rovers fans (those in the minority who genuinely care more about the Venkys than the club) are allowed to propagate their Happy-Clapper ultra authoritarian mind set, then no matter how objective, relevant or empirically sound those who are opposed to the Venkys might be when our contrary opinions are presented to the nasty noisy negativist Venkys Deniers, they will continue to believe that they do not need to engage with our opinions because they have decided they think we are immoral, (more on this cruel arrogance later).
I believe that if any evidence/opinion is sound, then it is relevant and therefore should be listened to.
However, the Happy-Clapper flotilla of disinformation is just this side of insultingly stupid rendering any form of discourse with them frustrating.
What the Venkys Apologists don't understand is that in any discourse, strong objectivity cannot be achieved by bias; strongly opposing - opposing views - through obfuscation, silencing and bullying tactics does not promote free speech and is an upside down reality. Unfortunately, this is often a tactical tool of discourse by the Happy-Clappers.
Disregarding contrary evidence or opinion and imputing ill intent on the person presenting it is a favourite trick of Happy-Clappers/Venky
s Deniers/ Venkys Apologists - no matter how empirically cogent and rational the opinion presented is - instead they counter with lies, half truths and slippery evasions.
I believe that the way true Rovers fans are often ambushed when discussing the Venkys and then attacked for something completely different by insolent and petulant Venkys propaganda parrots who prefer to smear and sneer is a well worn tactic by the Happy-Clappers who tend to find it difficult to put aside any of their unreasonable convictions about what they feel Rovers fans ought to think.
An extravagantly arrogant mind set leaving it impossible for them to be objective; sometimes disregarding evidence or questions that challenge them, leading to an aggressive projection of their views involving smarmy smugness, dishonesty and hostile rhetoric.
Therefore Venkys Deniers often find it very difficult to engage on any issues in any other model but their own or tolerate those that do; they twist evidence to suite their own upside-down view of things smearing the character of anyone with opinions they do not agree with that make them feel uncomfortable, "You're only saying that because you're a...".
In conclusion let us be clear; owd nick, greenscreener, rovrstid, BRFC 1875, incesteachsunday et al are not the voices of moderation. These were the people that blamed the fans for Steve Keans poor tactics, substitutions and transfers; they blamed the fans for the resignations of Williams and Finn and many others; they blamed the fans for the poor performances of Murphy, Best and Etu; they blame the fans for the debt the club is now in; they blame the fans for the looming FFP transfer embargo and they blamed the fans for relegation. This is obscene 'logic'.
They cannot argue with the facts so they make their own up; Rovers fans boo when Rovers are winning and want Gary Bowyer to fail are a couple of their favourite lies.
It's easy to side with the rich and powerful; the corporate media, Agents and multi billionaire owners of football clubs and far more difficult to stand up against. The Happy-Clappers choose to do the former while cynically traducing those people who chose to do the latter.
This is the moral cowardice of opportunism. They know where the money and power is.
What the corporate media did in blaming Rovers' fans for the very problems foisted upon them is a tried and tested media trick. Today we see the unemployed blamed for unemployment, the homeless blamed for homelessness and those in receipt of state welfare unemployment benefits are blamed for the national debt and the fact that Britain is bankrupt.
The weakest, poorest and most vulnerable are blamed for the problems created by the strongest, richest and least vulnerable.
It's easy to see from the writing style of many of the Happy-Clappers across the internet that they are educated and middle-class. They've looked at the images and listened to the descriptions of the protestors that have been presented by the ugly media narrative and fallen for the illusion of seeing them as thuggish bar brawlers; unreasonable, violent and ungrateful; racist, sexist and hateful. Of being 'poor'. And that last point is important because that is the real reason the Happy-Clappers do not like the fans/protestors/indi
viduals that stood up against the looting of Blackburn Rovers by Jerome Anderson and his gang of pirates.
The Happy-Clappers are synthetic middle-class Nuevo Riché SKY SPORTS Premier League era soulless consumers. They are not fans of the working man's game. They hate it. They're fans of lifeless, sterilised stadiums and expensive match day tickets that only they can afford. They enjoy the plastic seats, manufactured corporate atmosphere, names on players shirts, head ache inducing brightly coloured football boots and up- their-own-arse goal celebrations by players who run off to celebrate on their own in front of the nearest TV cameras. At best they're consumers and at worst they're tourists.
These supine lickspittles have a myopic sense of history. They pepper us with their propaganda and would like us all to believe that it's all over. Everything is better. It's in the "past". No it isn't and they've got their 'tenses' mixed up. The Venkys and everything they've wrought upon Blackburn Rovers is still happening now in the present-continuous.
The happy-clappers' minds may have been placated with the first form of communication from the Venkys in the three years since they acquired the club despite repeated pleas from Rovers fans, local MP's, local councillors, local business men, sponsors and even a very professionally produced and well received documentary - but better late than never, I suppose.
Then again, i think the Venkys have been well and truly shafted as well. They have been badly advised by Anderson, Kean and Singh not to mention Agnew. Their own lawyer described Rovers current Director as a "renegade out of control Director" - no one has ever explained precisely what that means. They've paid out a small fortune to Keane, Appleton and Berg and i believe are still paying Singh's wages. Singh meant well but the man was a buffoon and what in the name of God is the pension thieving con artist Hendry still doing at the club? What a fall from grace for a player i used to idolise from The Blackburn End terrace. The Venkys were also badly advised on the sale of Jones to Manchester United plus they're putting £3million a month into the club just to keep it alive. I would not be surprised if there was just a touch of criminal activity going on in the Ewood Park corridors of power back in 2010-2012. As a humane person i can't help but feel a bit sorry for them.
Then i think of the atrocious arrogance they have shown with their deafening silence these past three years.
The open letter recently published was as good as one could expect. I was fine with it. I welcomed it and it is a start but let's not kid ourselves; the club was moving forward and did not need rebuilding until the Venkys gutted it.
I don't agree with those who think Bowyer should be sterner in his criticisms of the Venkys when being interviewed, that's naïve and unreasonable. Indeed, i am sometimes surprised when Bowyer does refer to the traumas of the past three years and the need to rebuild on and off the pitch and repair the damaged relationship with the fans. He is of course correct and i think that in itself is quite strong language so nice one Gary.
Also, I would rather trust Bowyers assessment of Varney. What Bowyer wants is hard working, committed and professionally minded footballers who wo will lead by example and help the youngsters. Varney must be a breath of fresh air around the place after Best, Murphy, Campbell et al.
I totally understand those who are critical of the signing - and those who are not critical - I'd rather wait and see and trust Bowyers judgement. I'd give Dunn a take it or leave it pay-as-you-play deal. I'd hope he'd take it, he still has something to offer and we need his skill and experience. Surely the young man's a millionaire by now?
As for the 2013-2014 season, i have mixed emotions. It was a very poor league and crying out for any team to put a decent little run together. Derby managed it and even Bournemouth nearly sneaked in. Burnley did not have many decent results after being dumped out of the League Cup by West Ham's Reserves yet finished second. That's how poor the league was.
In a decent league Rovers would have struggled and Burnley would not have been promoted. Sheff' Wed's and Birmingham at Christmas and Sheff' Wed's and Yeovil at Easter were the games that cost us the Play Offs but obviously you could chose any games. The Yeovil result was a disgrace.
I'm still not convinced Bowyer can get us promoted. He is a decent man and has worked a minor miracle and will need time if he is to succeed. Rovers should look at Burnley and Dyche. I desperately hope any Rovers manager will succeed and would be particularly pleased for Bowyer and his team of coaches, physios and squad of players if successful because i consider Bowyer to be one of us and because of the passion, genuine love of the club and heartfelt concern for the fans he has displayed. He has also shown great dignity and strikes me as a man of good character.
owd nick, greenscreener, rovrstid, BRFC1875, incesteachsunday et al will be the first to savagely demand Bowyer's sacking, their hateful impatience cascading from the slopes of Ewood Park demanding his head on a platter if Rovers do not have 6 points from their opening three games next season.
These people are extremists. They portray themselves as a flock of sheep but really they are a pack of wolves, (though that is an insult to the noble wolf). They've put all their eggs in the Gary Bowyer basket and that is why any reasonable and rational words of caution are studiously attacked with patronising contempt.
They are the enemies of everything that is good and proper.
--------
The Venky's Reign of Error: The Strange Case of Steve Kean
http://ewoodpark.jim
do.com/the-venky-s-r
eign-of-error-the-st
range-case-of-steve-
kean/

Open letter to the Happy-Clappers/Venky
s Apologists/Venkys Deniers.
The Happy -Clappers dogma, inflexibility and immorality in the way they engage with true Rovers fans has begun to rear its cynical head recently as they suddenly seem to be the dominant voice on these discussion pages now that things are looking good again; shoving shame down the throats of those genuine Rovers fans that still continue to ask awkward questions.
I have read a lot of Happy-Clappers on the internet trying to engage in all kinds of arguments whilst discussing what the Venkys have done to Rovers; many of these Venkys Apologists that present themselves as emissaries of moderation are on the 'Blame the Rovers fans' side of the debate and it is fascinating listening to and watching how they interpret events through the prism of their deeply entrenched belief system - 'beliefs' about what they consider to be 'moral truths' but these 'truths' are nothing more than Orwellian Newspeak where reality is turned upside down - hate is love, war is peace.
I genuinely wonder whether some of these people are in the employ of the dastardly Venkys - sitting on their large wobbly bottoms in front of computers whilst they operate a full scale lying propaganda machine attempting to command and organise the organs of public opinion and our perception of reality through a manipulation of history.
If these so-called Rovers fans (those in the minority who genuinely care more about the Venkys than the club) are allowed to propagate their Happy-Clapper ultra authoritarian mind set, then no matter how objective, relevant or empirically sound those who are opposed to the Venkys might be when our contrary opinions are presented to the nasty noisy negativist Venkys Deniers, they will continue to believe that they do not need to engage with our opinions because they have decided they think we are immoral, (more on this cruel arrogance later).
I believe that if any evidence/opinion is sound, then it is relevant and therefore should be listened to.
However, the Happy-Clapper flotilla of disinformation is just this side of insultingly stupid rendering any form of discourse with them frustrating.
What the Venkys Apologists don't understand is that in any discourse, strong objectivity cannot be achieved by bias; strongly opposing - opposing views - through obfuscation, silencing and bullying tactics does not promote free speech and is an upside down reality. Unfortunately, this is often a tactical tool of discourse by the Happy-Clappers.
Disregarding contrary evidence or opinion and imputing ill intent on the person presenting it is a favourite trick of Happy-Clappers/Venky
s Deniers/ Venkys Apologists - no matter how empirically cogent and rational the opinion presented is - instead they counter with lies, half truths and slippery evasions.
I believe that the way true Rovers fans are often ambushed when discussing the Venkys and then attacked for something completely different by insolent and petulant Venkys propaganda parrots who prefer to smear and sneer is a well worn tactic by the Happy-Clappers who tend to find it difficult to put aside any of their unreasonable convictions about what they feel Rovers fans ought to think.
An extravagantly arrogant mind set leaving it impossible for them to be objective; sometimes disregarding evidence or questions that challenge them, leading to an aggressive projection of their views involving smarmy smugness, dishonesty and hostile rhetoric.
Therefore Venkys Deniers often find it very difficult to engage on any issues in any other model but their own or tolerate those that do; they twist evidence to suite their own upside-down view of things smearing the character of anyone with opinions they do not agree with that make them feel uncomfortable, "You're only saying that because you're a...[insert hateful ugly accusation/insult]".
In conclusion let us be clear; owd nick, greenscreener, rovrstid, BRFC 1875, incesteachsunday et al are not the voices of moderation. These were the people that blamed the fans for Steve Keans poor tactics, substitutions and transfers; they blamed the fans for the resignations of Williams and Finn and many others; they blamed the fans for the poor performances of Murphy, Best and Etu; they blame the fans for the debt the club is now in; they blame the fans for the looming FFP transfer embargo and they blamed the fans for relegation. This is obscene 'logic'.
They cannot argue with the facts so they make their own up; Rovers fans boo when Rovers are winning and want Gary Bowyer to fail are a couple of their favourite lies.
It's easy to side with the rich and powerful; the corporate media, Agents and multi billionaire owners of football clubs and far more difficult to stand up against. The Happy-Clappers choose to do the former while cynically traducing those people who chose to do the latter.
This is the moral cowardice of opportunism. They know where the money and power is.
What the corporate media did in blaming Rovers' fans for the very problems foisted upon them is a tried and tested media trick. Today we see the unemployed blamed for unemployment, the homeless blamed for homelessness and those in receipt of state welfare unemployment benefits are blamed for the national debt and the fact that Britain is bankrupt.
The weakest, poorest and most vulnerable are blamed for the problems created by the strongest, richest and least vulnerable.
It's easy to see from the writing style of many of the Happy-Clappers across the internet that they are educated and middle-class. They've looked at the images and listened to the descriptions of the protestors that have been presented by the ugly media narrative and fallen for the illusion of seeing them as thuggish bar brawlers; unreasonable, violent and ungrateful; racist, sexist and hateful. Of being 'poor'. And that last point is important because that is the real reason the Happy-Clappers do not like the fans/protestors/indi
viduals that stood up against the looting of Blackburn Rovers by Jerome Anderson and his gang of pirates.
The Happy-Clappers are synthetic middle-class Nuevo Riché SKY SPORTS Premier League era soulless consumers. They are not fans of the working man's game. They hate it. They're fans of lifeless, sterilised stadiums and expensive match day tickets that only they can afford. They enjoy the plastic seats, manufactured corporate atmosphere, names on players shirts, head ache inducing brightly coloured football boots and up- their-own-arse goal celebrations by players who run off to celebrate on their own in front of the nearest TV cameras. At best they're consumers and at worst they're tourists.
These supine lickspittles have a myopic sense of history. They pepper us with their propaganda and would like us all to believe that it's all over. Everything is better. It's in the "past". No it isn't and they've got their 'tenses' mixed up. The Venkys and everything they've wrought upon Blackburn Rovers is still happening now in the present-continuous.
The happy-clappers' minds may have been placated with the first form of communication from the Venkys in the three years since they acquired the club despite repeated pleas from Rovers fans, local MP's, local councillors, local business men, sponsors and even a very professionally produced and well received documentary - but better late than never, I suppose.
Then again, i think the Venkys have been well and truly shafted as well. They have been badly advised by Anderson, Kean and Singh not to mention Agnew. Their own lawyer described Rovers current Director as a "renegade out of control Director" - no one has ever explained precisely what that means. They've paid out a small fortune to Keane, Appleton and Berg and i believe are still paying Singh's wages. Singh meant well but the man was a buffoon and what in the name of God is the pension thieving con artist Hendry still doing at the club? What a fall from grace for a player i used to idolise from The Blackburn End terrace. The Venkys were also badly advised on the sale of Jones to Manchester United plus they're putting £3million a month into the club just to keep it alive. I would not be surprised if there was just a touch of criminal activity going on in the Ewood Park corridors of power back in 2010-2012. As a humane person i can't help but feel a bit sorry for them.
Then i think of the atrocious arrogance they have shown with their deafening silence these past three years.
The open letter recently published was as good as one could expect. I was fine with it. I welcomed it and it is a start but let's not kid ourselves; the club was moving forward and did not need rebuilding until the Venkys gutted it.
I don't agree with those who think Bowyer should be sterner in his criticisms of the Venkys when being interviewed, that's naïve and unreasonable. Indeed, i am sometimes surprised when Bowyer does refer to the traumas of the past three years and the need to rebuild on and off the pitch and repair the damaged relationship with the fans. He is of course correct and i think that in itself is quite strong language so nice one Gary.
Also, I would rather trust Bowyers assessment of Varney. What Bowyer wants is hard working, committed and professionally minded footballers who wo will lead by example and help the youngsters. Varney must be a breath of fresh air around the place after Best, Murphy, Campbell et al.
I totally understand those who are critical of the signing - and those who are not critical - I'd rather wait and see and trust Bowyers judgement. I'd give Dunn a take it or leave it pay-as-you-play deal. I'd hope he'd take it, he still has something to offer and we need his skill and experience. Surely the young man's a millionaire by now?
As for the 2013-2014 season, i have mixed emotions. It was a very poor league and crying out for any team to put a decent little run together. Derby managed it and even Bournemouth nearly sneaked in. Burnley did not have many decent results after being dumped out of the League Cup by West Ham's Reserves yet finished second. That's how poor the league was.
In a decent league Rovers would have struggled and Burnley would not have been promoted. Sheff' Wed's and Birmingham at Christmas and Sheff' Wed's and Yeovil at Easter were the games that cost us the Play Offs but obviously you could chose any games. The Yeovil result was a disgrace.
I'm still not convinced Bowyer can get us promoted. He is a decent man and has worked a minor miracle and will need time if he is to succeed. Rovers should look at Burnley and Dyche. I desperately hope any Rovers manager will succeed and would be particularly pleased for Bowyer and his team of coaches, physios and squad of players if successful because i consider Bowyer to be one of us and because of the passion, genuine love of the club and heartfelt concern for the fans he has displayed. He has also shown great dignity and strikes me as a man of good character.
owd nick, greenscreener, rovrstid, BRFC1875, incesteachsunday et al will be the first to savagely demand Bowyer's sacking, their hateful impatience cascading from the slopes of Ewood Park demanding his head on a platter if Rovers do not have 6 points from their opening three games next season.
These people are extremists. They portray themselves as a flock of sheep but really they are a pack of wolves, (though that is an insult to the noble wolf). They've put all their eggs in the Gary Bowyer basket and that is why any reasonable and rational words of caution are studiously attacked with patronising contempt.
They are the enemies of everything that is good and proper.
--------
The Venky's Reign of Error: The Strange Case of Steve Kean
http://ewoodpark.jim
do.com/the-venky-s-r
eign-of-error-the-st
range-case-of-steve-
kean/Rovers F.C.

As for the first post ^, calling people extremists because they don't spend their days drowning in a pool of their own venky-induced bile is an insult to those who spend their hard-earned following Rovers. No Rovers fan thinks Venky's have done a good job but that's doesn't make them 'happy-clappers'. In short, grow up.

As for the first post ^, calling people extremists because they don't spend their days drowning in a pool of their own venky-induced bile is an insult to those who spend their hard-earned following Rovers. No Rovers fan thinks Venky's have done a good job but that's doesn't make them 'happy-clappers'. In short, grow up.Blackburn Yoof

Right we should have a long list of apologies on here from all you so called "fans" who reckoned the apology letter from Venkys was because they were going to put prices up, like you have said every year since they took over!!!
Over the last year they have done well, keeping quiet, still putting in money and now still subsidising ticket prices.
So stop your F@@king moaning and try supporting the team for a change, you never know we might win a few then!!!

Right we should have a long list of apologies on here from all you so called "fans" who reckoned the apology letter from Venkys was because they were going to put prices up, like you have said every year since they took over!!!
Over the last year they have done well, keeping quiet, still putting in money and now still subsidising ticket prices.
So stop your F@@king moaning and try supporting the team for a change, you never know we might win a few then!!!bluenwhite

Blackburn Yoof wrote:
As for the first post ^, calling people extremists because they don't spend their days drowning in a pool of their own venky-induced bile is an insult to those who spend their hard-earned following Rovers. No Rovers fan thinks Venky's have done a good job but that's doesn't make them 'happy-clappers'. In short, grow up.

I thought it was quite amusing to be accused of being an extremist on the most extreme post I've ever read on here, I thought 'super.clarets' had problems.......
It's another season of happy clapping on the Riverside for me and happy drinking in the boozer before the matches.

[quote][p][bold]Blackburn Yoof[/bold] wrote:
As for the first post ^, calling people extremists because they don't spend their days drowning in a pool of their own venky-induced bile is an insult to those who spend their hard-earned following Rovers. No Rovers fan thinks Venky's have done a good job but that's doesn't make them 'happy-clappers'. In short, grow up.[/p][/quote]I thought it was quite amusing to be accused of being an extremist on the most extreme post I've ever read on here, I thought 'super.clarets' had problems.......
It's another season of happy clapping on the Riverside for me and happy drinking in the boozer before the matches.champs95

I tried to read the first post but got bored. I for one believe that Venkys have learnt a great lesson from the first 3 years in charge. Yes they have made massive mistakes, at a massive financial cost to them. If not Venkys, then who would want to buy and run this club?
I don’t have a wobbly bottom by the way, I just go and support the team as I have done for nearly 40 years. In summary, in a few words. Yes Venkys have made mistakes, and have learned from them. Without them would we be where we are now.....who knows. We can’t change it so stop whinging and start “supporting” the team. If you want to see how fans support a team, even when playing poorly, go look at some Crystal Palace video’s from You Tube.

I tried to read the first post but got bored. I for one believe that Venkys have learnt a great lesson from the first 3 years in charge. Yes they have made massive mistakes, at a massive financial cost to them. If not Venkys, then who would want to buy and run this club?
I don’t have a wobbly bottom by the way, I just go and support the team as I have done for nearly 40 years. In summary, in a few words. Yes Venkys have made mistakes, and have learned from them. Without them would we be where we are now.....who knows. We can’t change it so stop whinging and start “supporting” the team. If you want to see how fans support a team, even when playing poorly, go look at some Crystal Palace video’s from You Tube.ppromney

Blackburn Yoof wrote:
As for the first post ^, calling people extremists because they don't spend their days drowning in a pool of their own venky-induced bile is an insult to those who spend their hard-earned following Rovers. No Rovers fan thinks Venky's have done a good job but that's doesn't make them 'happy-clappers'. In short, grow up.

I thought it was quite amusing to be accused of being an extremist on the most extreme post I've ever read on here, I thought 'super.clarets' had problems.......
It's another season of happy clapping on the Riverside for me and happy drinking in the boozer before the matches.

I couldn't even be bothered to read such boring, arrogant post.

[quote][p][bold]champs95[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Blackburn Yoof[/bold] wrote:
As for the first post ^, calling people extremists because they don't spend their days drowning in a pool of their own venky-induced bile is an insult to those who spend their hard-earned following Rovers. No Rovers fan thinks Venky's have done a good job but that's doesn't make them 'happy-clappers'. In short, grow up.[/p][/quote]I thought it was quite amusing to be accused of being an extremist on the most extreme post I've ever read on here, I thought 'super.clarets' had problems.......
It's another season of happy clapping on the Riverside for me and happy drinking in the boozer before the matches.[/p][/quote]I couldn't even be bothered to read such boring, arrogant post.jimluftas

You cannot complain at these prices when you look at the rest of the championship season ticket prices which are much higher,,the football is better the squad is better and our promotion prospects are better,and the club are trying their best to make the prices affordable, what more could you wish for ?

You cannot complain at these prices when you look at the rest of the championship season ticket prices which are much higher,,the football is better the squad is better and our promotion prospects are better,and the club are trying their best to make the prices affordable, what more could you wish for ?noddy57

bluenwhite wrote:
Right we should have a long list of apologies on here from all you so called &quot;fans" who reckoned the apology letter from Venkys was because they were going to put prices up, like you have said every year since they took over!!!
Over the last year they have done well, keeping quiet, still putting in money and now still subsidising ticket prices.
So stop your F@@king moaning and try supporting the team for a change, you never know we might win a few then!!!

Well said. Venky's biggest mistake was buying into a business in which they knew nothing about and then to compound it by allowing so called knowledgeable people to advise and run the business. Those knowledgeable(parasi
tes) people then took it upon themselves to shaft the club to the tune of millions of pounds,remove Allardyce and appoint their own man in Kean who carried on their good work. Just to make matters worst,in stepped Shabby who just had as much idea of managing the affairs of Rovers as would Donald Duck. Having woke up to what was happening to the club,Kean and Shabby both out of the way and two bad managerial appointments later GB was given the job and a year later stability returned to the club. No Rovers fan will forget what Venky's have done to the club,but last season seemed to have been a turning point in what was needed to run this club.They seem to have got a grasp of having the right people in place to take the club forward. We wait to see how they deal with FFP and what sort of budget they have given GB.We can't change the past, we might not like Venky's but we need Venky's at this moment,and if that means being a happy clapper or whatever you want to call like minded fans,so be it,but I will support the team whoever owns this great club.

[quote][p][bold]bluenwhite[/bold] wrote:
Right we should have a long list of apologies on here from all you so called "fans" who reckoned the apology letter from Venkys was because they were going to put prices up, like you have said every year since they took over!!!
Over the last year they have done well, keeping quiet, still putting in money and now still subsidising ticket prices.
So stop your F@@king moaning and try supporting the team for a change, you never know we might win a few then!!![/p][/quote]Well said. Venky's biggest mistake was buying into a business in which they knew nothing about and then to compound it by allowing so called knowledgeable people to advise and run the business. Those knowledgeable(parasi
tes) people then took it upon themselves to shaft the club to the tune of millions of pounds,remove Allardyce and appoint their own man in Kean who carried on their good work. Just to make matters worst,in stepped Shabby who just had as much idea of managing the affairs of Rovers as would Donald Duck. Having woke up to what was happening to the club,Kean and Shabby both out of the way and two bad managerial appointments later GB was given the job and a year later stability returned to the club. No Rovers fan will forget what Venky's have done to the club,but last season seemed to have been a turning point in what was needed to run this club.They seem to have got a grasp of having the right people in place to take the club forward. We wait to see how they deal with FFP and what sort of budget they have given GB.We can't change the past, we might not like Venky's but we need Venky's at this moment,and if that means being a happy clapper or whatever you want to call like minded fans,so be it,but I will support the team whoever owns this great club.earwego

I'm puzzled, not complaining though.
We're im all this debt 'supposedly' but Venkys are giving away tickets for peanuts for the second season running.
The 'well run' club up the road meanwhile are screwing the best fans in the world for every penny?
Strange game this football !!!

I'm puzzled, not complaining though.
We're im all this debt 'supposedly' but Venkys are giving away tickets for peanuts for the second season running.
The 'well run' club up the road meanwhile are screwing the best fans in the world for every penny?
Strange game this football !!!Harwoodstblue

s Apologists/Venkys Deniers.
The Happy -Clappers dogma, inflexibility and immorality in the way they engage with true Rovers fans has begun to rear its cynical head recently as they suddenly seem to be the dominant voice on these discussion pages now that things are looking good again; shoving shame down the throats of those genuine Rovers fans that still continue to ask awkward questions.
I have read a lot of Happy-Clappers on the internet trying to engage in all kinds of arguments whilst discussing what the Venkys have done to Rovers; many of these Venkys Apologists that present themselves as emissaries of moderation are on the 'Blame the Rovers fans' side of the debate and it is fascinating listening to and watching how they interpret events through the prism of their deeply entrenched belief system - 'beliefs' about what they consider to be 'moral truths' but these 'truths' are nothing more than Orwellian Newspeak where reality is turned upside down - hate is love, war is peace.
I genuinely wonder whether some of these people are in the employ of the dastardly Venkys - sitting on their large wobbly bottoms in front of computers whilst they operate a full scale lying propaganda machine attempting to command and organise the organs of public opinion and our perception of reality through a manipulation of history.
If these so-called Rovers fans (those in the minority who genuinely care more about the Venkys than the club) are allowed to propagate their Happy-Clapper ultra authoritarian mind set, then no matter how objective, relevant or empirically sound those who are opposed to the Venkys might be when our contrary opinions are presented to the nasty noisy negativist Venkys Deniers, they will continue to believe that they do not need to engage with our opinions because they have decided they think we are immoral, (more on this cruel arrogance later).
I believe that if any evidence/opinion is sound, then it is relevant and therefore should be listened to.
However, the Happy-Clapper flotilla of disinformation is just this side of insultingly stupid rendering any form of discourse with them frustrating.
What the Venkys Apologists don't understand is that in any discourse, strong objectivity cannot be achieved by bias; strongly opposing - opposing views - through obfuscation, silencing and bullying tactics does not promote free speech and is an upside down reality. Unfortunately, this is often a tactical tool of discourse by the Happy-Clappers.
Disregarding contrary evidence or opinion and imputing ill intent on the person presenting it is a favourite trick of Happy-Clappers/Venky

s Deniers/ Venkys Apologists - no matter how empirically cogent and rational the opinion presented is - instead they counter with lies, half truths and slippery evasions.
I believe that the way true Rovers fans are often ambushed when discussing the Venkys and then attacked for something completely different by insolent and petulant Venkys propaganda parrots who prefer to smear and sneer is a well worn tactic by the Happy-Clappers who tend to find it difficult to put aside any of their unreasonable convictions about what they feel Rovers fans ought to think.
An extravagantly arrogant mind set leaving it impossible for them to be objective; sometimes disregarding evidence or questions that challenge them, leading to an aggressive projection of their views involving smarmy smugness, dishonesty and hostile rhetoric.
Therefore Venkys Deniers often find it very difficult to engage on any issues in any other model but their own or tolerate those that do; they twist evidence to suite their own upside-down view of things smearing the character of anyone with opinions they do not agree with that make them feel uncomfortable, &quot;You're only saying that because you're a...".
In conclusion let us be clear; owd nick, greenscreener, rovrstid, BRFC 1875, incesteachsunday et al are not the voices of moderation. These were the people that blamed the fans for Steve Keans poor tactics, substitutions and transfers; they blamed the fans for the resignations of Williams and Finn and many others; they blamed the fans for the poor performances of Murphy, Best and Etu; they blame the fans for the debt the club is now in; they blame the fans for the looming FFP transfer embargo and they blamed the fans for relegation. This is obscene 'logic'.
They cannot argue with the facts so they make their own up; Rovers fans boo when Rovers are winning and want Gary Bowyer to fail are a couple of their favourite lies.
It's easy to side with the rich and powerful; the corporate media, Agents and multi billionaire owners of football clubs and far more difficult to stand up against. The Happy-Clappers choose to do the former while cynically traducing those people who chose to do the latter.
This is the moral cowardice of opportunism. They know where the money and power is.
What the corporate media did in blaming Rovers' fans for the very problems foisted upon them is a tried and tested media trick. Today we see the unemployed blamed for unemployment, the homeless blamed for homelessness and those in receipt of state welfare unemployment benefits are blamed for the national debt and the fact that Britain is bankrupt.
The weakest, poorest and most vulnerable are blamed for the problems created by the strongest, richest and least vulnerable.
It's easy to see from the writing style of many of the Happy-Clappers across the internet that they are educated and middle-class. They've looked at the images and listened to the descriptions of the protestors that have been presented by the ugly media narrative and fallen for the illusion of seeing them as thuggish bar brawlers; unreasonable, violent and ungrateful; racist, sexist and hateful. Of being 'poor'. And that last point is important because that is the real reason the Happy-Clappers do not like the fans/protestors/indi

viduals that stood up against the looting of Blackburn Rovers by Jerome Anderson and his gang of pirates.
The Happy-Clappers are synthetic middle-class Nuevo Riché SKY SPORTS Premier League era soulless consumers. They are not fans of the working man's game. They hate it. They're fans of lifeless, sterilised stadiums and expensive match day tickets that only they can afford. They enjoy the plastic seats, manufactured corporate atmosphere, names on players shirts, head ache inducing brightly coloured football boots and up- their-own-arse goal celebrations by players who run off to celebrate on their own in front of the nearest TV cameras. At best they're consumers and at worst they're tourists.
These supine lickspittles have a myopic sense of history. They pepper us with their propaganda and would like us all to believe that it's all over. Everything is better. It's in the "past". No it isn't and they've got their 'tenses' mixed up. The Venkys and everything they've wrought upon Blackburn Rovers is still happening now in the present-continuous.
The happy-clappers' minds may have been placated with the first form of communication from the Venkys in the three years since they acquired the club despite repeated pleas from Rovers fans, local MP's, local councillors, local business men, sponsors and even a very professionally produced and well received documentary - but better late than never, I suppose.
Then again, i think the Venkys have been well and truly shafted as well. They have been badly advised by Anderson, Kean and Singh not to mention Agnew. Their own lawyer described Rovers current Director as a "renegade out of control Director" - no one has ever explained precisely what that means. They've paid out a small fortune to Keane, Appleton and Berg and i believe are still paying Singh's wages. Singh meant well but the man was a buffoon and what in the name of God is the pension thieving con artist Hendry still doing at the club? What a fall from grace for a player i used to idolise from The Blackburn End terrace. The Venkys were also badly advised on the sale of Jones to Manchester United plus they're putting £3million a month into the club just to keep it alive. I would not be surprised if there was just a touch of criminal activity going on in the Ewood Park corridors of power back in 2010-2012. As a humane person i can't help but feel a bit sorry for them.
Then i think of the atrocious arrogance they have shown with their deafening silence these past three years.
The open letter recently published was as good as one could expect. I was fine with it. I welcomed it and it is a start but let's not kid ourselves; the club was moving forward and did not need rebuilding until the Venkys gutted it.
I don't agree with those who think Bowyer should be sterner in his criticisms of the Venkys when being interviewed, that's naïve and unreasonable. Indeed, i am sometimes surprised when Bowyer does refer to the traumas of the past three years and the need to rebuild on and off the pitch and repair the damaged relationship with the fans. He is of course correct and i think that in itself is quite strong language so nice one Gary.
Also, I would rather trust Bowyers assessment of Varney. What Bowyer wants is hard working, committed and professionally minded footballers who wo will lead by example and help the youngsters. Varney must be a breath of fresh air around the place after Best, Murphy, Campbell et al.
I totally understand those who are critical of the signing - and those who are not critical - I'd rather wait and see and trust Bowyers judgement. I'd give Dunn a take it or leave it pay-as-you-play deal. I'd hope he'd take it, he still has something to offer and we need his skill and experience. Surely the young man's a millionaire by now?
As for the 2013-2014 season, i have mixed emotions. It was a very poor league and crying out for any team to put a decent little run together. Derby managed it and even Bournemouth nearly sneaked in. Burnley did not have many decent results after being dumped out of the League Cup by West Ham's Reserves yet finished second. That's how poor the league was.
In a decent league Rovers would have struggled and Burnley would not have been promoted. Sheff' Wed's and Birmingham at Christmas and Sheff' Wed's and Yeovil at Easter were the games that cost us the Play Offs but obviously you could chose any games. The Yeovil result was a disgrace.
I'm still not convinced Bowyer can get us promoted. He is a decent man and has worked a minor miracle and will need time if he is to succeed. Rovers should look at Burnley and Dyche. I desperately hope any Rovers manager will succeed and would be particularly pleased for Bowyer and his team of coaches, physios and squad of players if successful because i consider Bowyer to be one of us and because of the passion, genuine love of the club and heartfelt concern for the fans he has displayed. He has also shown great dignity and strikes me as a man of good character.
owd nick, greenscreener, rovrstid, BRFC1875, incesteachsunday et al will be the first to savagely demand Bowyer's sacking, their hateful impatience cascading from the slopes of Ewood Park demanding his head on a platter if Rovers do not have 6 points from their opening three games next season.
These people are extremists. They portray themselves as a flock of sheep but really they are a pack of wolves, (though that is an insult to the noble wolf). They've put all their eggs in the Gary Bowyer basket and that is why any reasonable and rational words of caution are studiously attacked with patronising contempt.
They are the enemies of everything that is good and proper.
--------
The Venky's Reign of Error: The Strange Case of Steve Kean
http://ewoodpark.jim

do.com/the-venky-s-r

eign-of-error-the-st

range-case-of-steve-

kean/

12-14k gates - "minority"? PMSL! Extremists? Oh dear.

Don't worry, we don't miss you at Ewood. How's Pub team football working out for ya? :D

[quote][p][bold]Rovers F.C.[/bold] wrote:
Open letter to the Happy-Clappers/Venky
s Apologists/Venkys Deniers.
The Happy -Clappers dogma, inflexibility and immorality in the way they engage with true Rovers fans has begun to rear its cynical head recently as they suddenly seem to be the dominant voice on these discussion pages now that things are looking good again; shoving shame down the throats of those genuine Rovers fans that still continue to ask awkward questions.
I have read a lot of Happy-Clappers on the internet trying to engage in all kinds of arguments whilst discussing what the Venkys have done to Rovers; many of these Venkys Apologists that present themselves as emissaries of moderation are on the 'Blame the Rovers fans' side of the debate and it is fascinating listening to and watching how they interpret events through the prism of their deeply entrenched belief system - 'beliefs' about what they consider to be 'moral truths' but these 'truths' are nothing more than Orwellian Newspeak where reality is turned upside down - hate is love, war is peace.
I genuinely wonder whether some of these people are in the employ of the dastardly Venkys - sitting on their large wobbly bottoms in front of computers whilst they operate a full scale lying propaganda machine attempting to command and organise the organs of public opinion and our perception of reality through a manipulation of history.
If these so-called Rovers fans (those in the minority who genuinely care more about the Venkys than the club) are allowed to propagate their Happy-Clapper ultra authoritarian mind set, then no matter how objective, relevant or empirically sound those who are opposed to the Venkys might be when our contrary opinions are presented to the nasty noisy negativist Venkys Deniers, they will continue to believe that they do not need to engage with our opinions because they have decided they think we are immoral, (more on this cruel arrogance later).
I believe that if any evidence/opinion is sound, then it is relevant and therefore should be listened to.
However, the Happy-Clapper flotilla of disinformation is just this side of insultingly stupid rendering any form of discourse with them frustrating.
What the Venkys Apologists don't understand is that in any discourse, strong objectivity cannot be achieved by bias; strongly opposing - opposing views - through obfuscation, silencing and bullying tactics does not promote free speech and is an upside down reality. Unfortunately, this is often a tactical tool of discourse by the Happy-Clappers.
Disregarding contrary evidence or opinion and imputing ill intent on the person presenting it is a favourite trick of Happy-Clappers/Venky
s Deniers/ Venkys Apologists - no matter how empirically cogent and rational the opinion presented is - instead they counter with lies, half truths and slippery evasions.
I believe that the way true Rovers fans are often ambushed when discussing the Venkys and then attacked for something completely different by insolent and petulant Venkys propaganda parrots who prefer to smear and sneer is a well worn tactic by the Happy-Clappers who tend to find it difficult to put aside any of their unreasonable convictions about what they feel Rovers fans ought to think.
An extravagantly arrogant mind set leaving it impossible for them to be objective; sometimes disregarding evidence or questions that challenge them, leading to an aggressive projection of their views involving smarmy smugness, dishonesty and hostile rhetoric.
Therefore Venkys Deniers often find it very difficult to engage on any issues in any other model but their own or tolerate those that do; they twist evidence to suite their own upside-down view of things smearing the character of anyone with opinions they do not agree with that make them feel uncomfortable, "You're only saying that because you're a...[insert hateful ugly accusation/insult]".
In conclusion let us be clear; owd nick, greenscreener, rovrstid, BRFC 1875, incesteachsunday et al are not the voices of moderation. These were the people that blamed the fans for Steve Keans poor tactics, substitutions and transfers; they blamed the fans for the resignations of Williams and Finn and many others; they blamed the fans for the poor performances of Murphy, Best and Etu; they blame the fans for the debt the club is now in; they blame the fans for the looming FFP transfer embargo and they blamed the fans for relegation. This is obscene 'logic'.
They cannot argue with the facts so they make their own up; Rovers fans boo when Rovers are winning and want Gary Bowyer to fail are a couple of their favourite lies.
It's easy to side with the rich and powerful; the corporate media, Agents and multi billionaire owners of football clubs and far more difficult to stand up against. The Happy-Clappers choose to do the former while cynically traducing those people who chose to do the latter.
This is the moral cowardice of opportunism. They know where the money and power is.
What the corporate media did in blaming Rovers' fans for the very problems foisted upon them is a tried and tested media trick. Today we see the unemployed blamed for unemployment, the homeless blamed for homelessness and those in receipt of state welfare unemployment benefits are blamed for the national debt and the fact that Britain is bankrupt.
The weakest, poorest and most vulnerable are blamed for the problems created by the strongest, richest and least vulnerable.
It's easy to see from the writing style of many of the Happy-Clappers across the internet that they are educated and middle-class. They've looked at the images and listened to the descriptions of the protestors that have been presented by the ugly media narrative and fallen for the illusion of seeing them as thuggish bar brawlers; unreasonable, violent and ungrateful; racist, sexist and hateful. Of being 'poor'. And that last point is important because that is the real reason the Happy-Clappers do not like the fans/protestors/indi
viduals that stood up against the looting of Blackburn Rovers by Jerome Anderson and his gang of pirates.
The Happy-Clappers are synthetic middle-class Nuevo Riché SKY SPORTS Premier League era soulless consumers. They are not fans of the working man's game. They hate it. They're fans of lifeless, sterilised stadiums and expensive match day tickets that only they can afford. They enjoy the plastic seats, manufactured corporate atmosphere, names on players shirts, head ache inducing brightly coloured football boots and up- their-own-arse goal celebrations by players who run off to celebrate on their own in front of the nearest TV cameras. At best they're consumers and at worst they're tourists.
These supine lickspittles have a myopic sense of history. They pepper us with their propaganda and would like us all to believe that it's all over. Everything is better. It's in the "past". No it isn't and they've got their 'tenses' mixed up. The Venkys and everything they've wrought upon Blackburn Rovers is still happening now in the present-continuous.
The happy-clappers' minds may have been placated with the first form of communication from the Venkys in the three years since they acquired the club despite repeated pleas from Rovers fans, local MP's, local councillors, local business men, sponsors and even a very professionally produced and well received documentary - but better late than never, I suppose.
Then again, i think the Venkys have been well and truly shafted as well. They have been badly advised by Anderson, Kean and Singh not to mention Agnew. Their own lawyer described Rovers current Director as a "renegade out of control Director" - no one has ever explained precisely what that means. They've paid out a small fortune to Keane, Appleton and Berg and i believe are still paying Singh's wages. Singh meant well but the man was a buffoon and what in the name of God is the pension thieving con artist Hendry still doing at the club? What a fall from grace for a player i used to idolise from The Blackburn End terrace. The Venkys were also badly advised on the sale of Jones to Manchester United plus they're putting £3million a month into the club just to keep it alive. I would not be surprised if there was just a touch of criminal activity going on in the Ewood Park corridors of power back in 2010-2012. As a humane person i can't help but feel a bit sorry for them.
Then i think of the atrocious arrogance they have shown with their deafening silence these past three years.
The open letter recently published was as good as one could expect. I was fine with it. I welcomed it and it is a start but let's not kid ourselves; the club was moving forward and did not need rebuilding until the Venkys gutted it.
I don't agree with those who think Bowyer should be sterner in his criticisms of the Venkys when being interviewed, that's naïve and unreasonable. Indeed, i am sometimes surprised when Bowyer does refer to the traumas of the past three years and the need to rebuild on and off the pitch and repair the damaged relationship with the fans. He is of course correct and i think that in itself is quite strong language so nice one Gary.
Also, I would rather trust Bowyers assessment of Varney. What Bowyer wants is hard working, committed and professionally minded footballers who wo will lead by example and help the youngsters. Varney must be a breath of fresh air around the place after Best, Murphy, Campbell et al.
I totally understand those who are critical of the signing - and those who are not critical - I'd rather wait and see and trust Bowyers judgement. I'd give Dunn a take it or leave it pay-as-you-play deal. I'd hope he'd take it, he still has something to offer and we need his skill and experience. Surely the young man's a millionaire by now?
As for the 2013-2014 season, i have mixed emotions. It was a very poor league and crying out for any team to put a decent little run together. Derby managed it and even Bournemouth nearly sneaked in. Burnley did not have many decent results after being dumped out of the League Cup by West Ham's Reserves yet finished second. That's how poor the league was.
In a decent league Rovers would have struggled and Burnley would not have been promoted. Sheff' Wed's and Birmingham at Christmas and Sheff' Wed's and Yeovil at Easter were the games that cost us the Play Offs but obviously you could chose any games. The Yeovil result was a disgrace.
I'm still not convinced Bowyer can get us promoted. He is a decent man and has worked a minor miracle and will need time if he is to succeed. Rovers should look at Burnley and Dyche. I desperately hope any Rovers manager will succeed and would be particularly pleased for Bowyer and his team of coaches, physios and squad of players if successful because i consider Bowyer to be one of us and because of the passion, genuine love of the club and heartfelt concern for the fans he has displayed. He has also shown great dignity and strikes me as a man of good character.
owd nick, greenscreener, rovrstid, BRFC1875, incesteachsunday et al will be the first to savagely demand Bowyer's sacking, their hateful impatience cascading from the slopes of Ewood Park demanding his head on a platter if Rovers do not have 6 points from their opening three games next season.
These people are extremists. They portray themselves as a flock of sheep but really they are a pack of wolves, (though that is an insult to the noble wolf). They've put all their eggs in the Gary Bowyer basket and that is why any reasonable and rational words of caution are studiously attacked with patronising contempt.
They are the enemies of everything that is good and proper.
--------
The Venky's Reign of Error: The Strange Case of Steve Kean
http://ewoodpark.jim
do.com/the-venky-s-r
eign-of-error-the-st
range-case-of-steve-
kean/[/p][/quote]12-14k gates - "minority"? PMSL! Extremists? Oh dear.
Don't worry, we don't miss you at Ewood. How's Pub team football working out for ya? :Droverstid

bluenwhite wrote:
Right we should have a long list of apologies on here from all you so called &quot;fans" who reckoned the apology letter from Venkys was because they were going to put prices up, like you have said every year since they took over!!!
Over the last year they have done well, keeping quiet, still putting in money and now still subsidising ticket prices.
So stop your F@@king moaning and try supporting the team for a change, you never know we might win a few then!!!

Well said. Venky's biggest mistake was buying into a business in which they knew nothing about and then to compound it by allowing so called knowledgeable people to advise and run the business. Those knowledgeable(parasi

tes) people then took it upon themselves to shaft the club to the tune of millions of pounds,remove Allardyce and appoint their own man in Kean who carried on their good work. Just to make matters worst,in stepped Shabby who just had as much idea of managing the affairs of Rovers as would Donald Duck. Having woke up to what was happening to the club,Kean and Shabby both out of the way and two bad managerial appointments later GB was given the job and a year later stability returned to the club. No Rovers fan will forget what Venky's have done to the club,but last season seemed to have been a turning point in what was needed to run this club.They seem to have got a grasp of having the right people in place to take the club forward. We wait to see how they deal with FFP and what sort of budget they have given GB.We can't change the past, we might not like Venky's but we need Venky's at this moment,and if that means being a happy clapper or whatever you want to call like minded fans,so be it,but I will support the team whoever owns this great club.

What a strange post. You provide a long list of grievous errors the Venkys have made then applaud a post that says the fans should apologise.

[quote][p][bold]earwego[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]bluenwhite[/bold] wrote:
Right we should have a long list of apologies on here from all you so called "fans" who reckoned the apology letter from Venkys was because they were going to put prices up, like you have said every year since they took over!!!
Over the last year they have done well, keeping quiet, still putting in money and now still subsidising ticket prices.
So stop your F@@king moaning and try supporting the team for a change, you never know we might win a few then!!![/p][/quote]Well said. Venky's biggest mistake was buying into a business in which they knew nothing about and then to compound it by allowing so called knowledgeable people to advise and run the business. Those knowledgeable(parasi
tes) people then took it upon themselves to shaft the club to the tune of millions of pounds,remove Allardyce and appoint their own man in Kean who carried on their good work. Just to make matters worst,in stepped Shabby who just had as much idea of managing the affairs of Rovers as would Donald Duck. Having woke up to what was happening to the club,Kean and Shabby both out of the way and two bad managerial appointments later GB was given the job and a year later stability returned to the club. No Rovers fan will forget what Venky's have done to the club,but last season seemed to have been a turning point in what was needed to run this club.They seem to have got a grasp of having the right people in place to take the club forward. We wait to see how they deal with FFP and what sort of budget they have given GB.We can't change the past, we might not like Venky's but we need Venky's at this moment,and if that means being a happy clapper or whatever you want to call like minded fans,so be it,but I will support the team whoever owns this great club.[/p][/quote]What a strange post. You provide a long list of grievous errors the Venkys have made then applaud a post that says the fans should apologise.Rovers F.C.

Well the first poster clearly didn't listen to Me Agnew's advice to move on! Love the passion and the analysis. The fan blame fallacy also appears to have been internalised by a some very vocal Rovers supporters. I have also wondered whether some of these are actually Venky/Anderson plants.
What happened at BRFC is a national scandal.
Angry as I still am, there is nothing I can do to undo the damage of a small group of self serving( probably criminal) individuals. To their everlasting shame, both the FA and the Premier League have chosen the Pontius Pilate route.
The questions for me are: What outcome is best for BRFC? What should supporters do to support this outcome? I honestly don't know the answers...

Well the first poster clearly didn't listen to Me Agnew's advice to move on! Love the passion and the analysis. The fan blame fallacy also appears to have been internalised by a some very vocal Rovers supporters. I have also wondered whether some of these are actually Venky/Anderson plants.
What happened at BRFC is a national scandal.
Angry as I still am, there is nothing I can do to undo the damage of a small group of self serving( probably criminal) individuals. To their everlasting shame, both the FA and the Premier League have chosen the Pontius Pilate route.
The questions for me are: What outcome is best for BRFC? What should supporters do to support this outcome? I honestly don't know the answers...Leonard Venkhater

s Apologists/Venkys Deniers.
The Happy -Clappers dogma, inflexibility and immorality in the way they engage with true Rovers fans has begun to rear its cynical head recently as they suddenly seem to be the dominant voice on these discussion pages now that things are looking good again; shoving shame down the throats of those genuine Rovers fans that still continue to ask awkward questions.
I have read a lot of Happy-Clappers on the internet trying to engage in all kinds of arguments whilst discussing what the Venkys have done to Rovers; many of these Venkys Apologists that present themselves as emissaries of moderation are on the 'Blame the Rovers fans' side of the debate and it is fascinating listening to and watching how they interpret events through the prism of their deeply entrenched belief system - 'beliefs' about what they consider to be 'moral truths' but these 'truths' are nothing more than Orwellian Newspeak where reality is turned upside down - hate is love, war is peace.
I genuinely wonder whether some of these people are in the employ of the dastardly Venkys - sitting on their large wobbly bottoms in front of computers whilst they operate a full scale lying propaganda machine attempting to command and organise the organs of public opinion and our perception of reality through a manipulation of history.
If these so-called Rovers fans (those in the minority who genuinely care more about the Venkys than the club) are allowed to propagate their Happy-Clapper ultra authoritarian mind set, then no matter how objective, relevant or empirically sound those who are opposed to the Venkys might be when our contrary opinions are presented to the nasty noisy negativist Venkys Deniers, they will continue to believe that they do not need to engage with our opinions because they have decided they think we are immoral, (more on this cruel arrogance later).
I believe that if any evidence/opinion is sound, then it is relevant and therefore should be listened to.
However, the Happy-Clapper flotilla of disinformation is just this side of insultingly stupid rendering any form of discourse with them frustrating.
What the Venkys Apologists don't understand is that in any discourse, strong objectivity cannot be achieved by bias; strongly opposing - opposing views - through obfuscation, silencing and bullying tactics does not promote free speech and is an upside down reality. Unfortunately, this is often a tactical tool of discourse by the Happy-Clappers.
Disregarding contrary evidence or opinion and imputing ill intent on the person presenting it is a favourite trick of Happy-Clappers/Venky

s Deniers/ Venkys Apologists - no matter how empirically cogent and rational the opinion presented is - instead they counter with lies, half truths and slippery evasions.
I believe that the way true Rovers fans are often ambushed when discussing the Venkys and then attacked for something completely different by insolent and petulant Venkys propaganda parrots who prefer to smear and sneer is a well worn tactic by the Happy-Clappers who tend to find it difficult to put aside any of their unreasonable convictions about what they feel Rovers fans ought to think.
An extravagantly arrogant mind set leaving it impossible for them to be objective; sometimes disregarding evidence or questions that challenge them, leading to an aggressive projection of their views involving smarmy smugness, dishonesty and hostile rhetoric.
Therefore Venkys Deniers often find it very difficult to engage on any issues in any other model but their own or tolerate those that do; they twist evidence to suite their own upside-down view of things smearing the character of anyone with opinions they do not agree with that make them feel uncomfortable, &quot;You're only saying that because you're a...".
In conclusion let us be clear; owd nick, greenscreener, rovrstid, BRFC 1875, incesteachsunday et al are not the voices of moderation. These were the people that blamed the fans for Steve Keans poor tactics, substitutions and transfers; they blamed the fans for the resignations of Williams and Finn and many others; they blamed the fans for the poor performances of Murphy, Best and Etu; they blame the fans for the debt the club is now in; they blame the fans for the looming FFP transfer embargo and they blamed the fans for relegation. This is obscene 'logic'.
They cannot argue with the facts so they make their own up; Rovers fans boo when Rovers are winning and want Gary Bowyer to fail are a couple of their favourite lies.
It's easy to side with the rich and powerful; the corporate media, Agents and multi billionaire owners of football clubs and far more difficult to stand up against. The Happy-Clappers choose to do the former while cynically traducing those people who chose to do the latter.
This is the moral cowardice of opportunism. They know where the money and power is.
What the corporate media did in blaming Rovers' fans for the very problems foisted upon them is a tried and tested media trick. Today we see the unemployed blamed for unemployment, the homeless blamed for homelessness and those in receipt of state welfare unemployment benefits are blamed for the national debt and the fact that Britain is bankrupt.
The weakest, poorest and most vulnerable are blamed for the problems created by the strongest, richest and least vulnerable.
It's easy to see from the writing style of many of the Happy-Clappers across the internet that they are educated and middle-class. They've looked at the images and listened to the descriptions of the protestors that have been presented by the ugly media narrative and fallen for the illusion of seeing them as thuggish bar brawlers; unreasonable, violent and ungrateful; racist, sexist and hateful. Of being 'poor'. And that last point is important because that is the real reason the Happy-Clappers do not like the fans/protestors/indi

viduals that stood up against the looting of Blackburn Rovers by Jerome Anderson and his gang of pirates.
The Happy-Clappers are synthetic middle-class Nuevo Riché SKY SPORTS Premier League era soulless consumers. They are not fans of the working man's game. They hate it. They're fans of lifeless, sterilised stadiums and expensive match day tickets that only they can afford. They enjoy the plastic seats, manufactured corporate atmosphere, names on players shirts, head ache inducing brightly coloured football boots and up- their-own-arse goal celebrations by players who run off to celebrate on their own in front of the nearest TV cameras. At best they're consumers and at worst they're tourists.
These supine lickspittles have a myopic sense of history. They pepper us with their propaganda and would like us all to believe that it's all over. Everything is better. It's in the "past". No it isn't and they've got their 'tenses' mixed up. The Venkys and everything they've wrought upon Blackburn Rovers is still happening now in the present-continuous.
The happy-clappers' minds may have been placated with the first form of communication from the Venkys in the three years since they acquired the club despite repeated pleas from Rovers fans, local MP's, local councillors, local business men, sponsors and even a very professionally produced and well received documentary - but better late than never, I suppose.
Then again, i think the Venkys have been well and truly shafted as well. They have been badly advised by Anderson, Kean and Singh not to mention Agnew. Their own lawyer described Rovers current Director as a "renegade out of control Director" - no one has ever explained precisely what that means. They've paid out a small fortune to Keane, Appleton and Berg and i believe are still paying Singh's wages. Singh meant well but the man was a buffoon and what in the name of God is the pension thieving con artist Hendry still doing at the club? What a fall from grace for a player i used to idolise from The Blackburn End terrace. The Venkys were also badly advised on the sale of Jones to Manchester United plus they're putting £3million a month into the club just to keep it alive. I would not be surprised if there was just a touch of criminal activity going on in the Ewood Park corridors of power back in 2010-2012. As a humane person i can't help but feel a bit sorry for them.
Then i think of the atrocious arrogance they have shown with their deafening silence these past three years.
The open letter recently published was as good as one could expect. I was fine with it. I welcomed it and it is a start but let's not kid ourselves; the club was moving forward and did not need rebuilding until the Venkys gutted it.
I don't agree with those who think Bowyer should be sterner in his criticisms of the Venkys when being interviewed, that's naïve and unreasonable. Indeed, i am sometimes surprised when Bowyer does refer to the traumas of the past three years and the need to rebuild on and off the pitch and repair the damaged relationship with the fans. He is of course correct and i think that in itself is quite strong language so nice one Gary.
Also, I would rather trust Bowyers assessment of Varney. What Bowyer wants is hard working, committed and professionally minded footballers who wo will lead by example and help the youngsters. Varney must be a breath of fresh air around the place after Best, Murphy, Campbell et al.
I totally understand those who are critical of the signing - and those who are not critical - I'd rather wait and see and trust Bowyers judgement. I'd give Dunn a take it or leave it pay-as-you-play deal. I'd hope he'd take it, he still has something to offer and we need his skill and experience. Surely the young man's a millionaire by now?
As for the 2013-2014 season, i have mixed emotions. It was a very poor league and crying out for any team to put a decent little run together. Derby managed it and even Bournemouth nearly sneaked in. Burnley did not have many decent results after being dumped out of the League Cup by West Ham's Reserves yet finished second. That's how poor the league was.
In a decent league Rovers would have struggled and Burnley would not have been promoted. Sheff' Wed's and Birmingham at Christmas and Sheff' Wed's and Yeovil at Easter were the games that cost us the Play Offs but obviously you could chose any games. The Yeovil result was a disgrace.
I'm still not convinced Bowyer can get us promoted. He is a decent man and has worked a minor miracle and will need time if he is to succeed. Rovers should look at Burnley and Dyche. I desperately hope any Rovers manager will succeed and would be particularly pleased for Bowyer and his team of coaches, physios and squad of players if successful because i consider Bowyer to be one of us and because of the passion, genuine love of the club and heartfelt concern for the fans he has displayed. He has also shown great dignity and strikes me as a man of good character.
owd nick, greenscreener, rovrstid, BRFC1875, incesteachsunday et al will be the first to savagely demand Bowyer's sacking, their hateful impatience cascading from the slopes of Ewood Park demanding his head on a platter if Rovers do not have 6 points from their opening three games next season.
These people are extremists. They portray themselves as a flock of sheep but really they are a pack of wolves, (though that is an insult to the noble wolf). They've put all their eggs in the Gary Bowyer basket and that is why any reasonable and rational words of caution are studiously attacked with patronising contempt.
They are the enemies of everything that is good and proper.
--------
The Venky's Reign of Error: The Strange Case of Steve Kean
http://ewoodpark.jim

do.com/the-venky-s-r

eign-of-error-the-st

range-case-of-steve-

kean/

12-14k gates - "minority"? PMSL! Extremists? Oh dear.

Don't worry, we don't miss you at Ewood. How's Pub team football working out for ya? :D

Another odd ball post. What makes you think i don't attend matches? The problem with self appointed oracle's of virtue lime you - and this happens every time - is that you conflate opposition to the Venkys with wanting the team to lose. I attend when i can and any one who has ever met me - and there are at least two people who used to be regular contributors to these pages that have - have no doubt of my passion for BRFC.

You sir, are an ****.

[quote][p][bold]roverstid[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Rovers F.C.[/bold] wrote:
Open letter to the Happy-Clappers/Venky
s Apologists/Venkys Deniers.
The Happy -Clappers dogma, inflexibility and immorality in the way they engage with true Rovers fans has begun to rear its cynical head recently as they suddenly seem to be the dominant voice on these discussion pages now that things are looking good again; shoving shame down the throats of those genuine Rovers fans that still continue to ask awkward questions.
I have read a lot of Happy-Clappers on the internet trying to engage in all kinds of arguments whilst discussing what the Venkys have done to Rovers; many of these Venkys Apologists that present themselves as emissaries of moderation are on the 'Blame the Rovers fans' side of the debate and it is fascinating listening to and watching how they interpret events through the prism of their deeply entrenched belief system - 'beliefs' about what they consider to be 'moral truths' but these 'truths' are nothing more than Orwellian Newspeak where reality is turned upside down - hate is love, war is peace.
I genuinely wonder whether some of these people are in the employ of the dastardly Venkys - sitting on their large wobbly bottoms in front of computers whilst they operate a full scale lying propaganda machine attempting to command and organise the organs of public opinion and our perception of reality through a manipulation of history.
If these so-called Rovers fans (those in the minority who genuinely care more about the Venkys than the club) are allowed to propagate their Happy-Clapper ultra authoritarian mind set, then no matter how objective, relevant or empirically sound those who are opposed to the Venkys might be when our contrary opinions are presented to the nasty noisy negativist Venkys Deniers, they will continue to believe that they do not need to engage with our opinions because they have decided they think we are immoral, (more on this cruel arrogance later).
I believe that if any evidence/opinion is sound, then it is relevant and therefore should be listened to.
However, the Happy-Clapper flotilla of disinformation is just this side of insultingly stupid rendering any form of discourse with them frustrating.
What the Venkys Apologists don't understand is that in any discourse, strong objectivity cannot be achieved by bias; strongly opposing - opposing views - through obfuscation, silencing and bullying tactics does not promote free speech and is an upside down reality. Unfortunately, this is often a tactical tool of discourse by the Happy-Clappers.
Disregarding contrary evidence or opinion and imputing ill intent on the person presenting it is a favourite trick of Happy-Clappers/Venky
s Deniers/ Venkys Apologists - no matter how empirically cogent and rational the opinion presented is - instead they counter with lies, half truths and slippery evasions.
I believe that the way true Rovers fans are often ambushed when discussing the Venkys and then attacked for something completely different by insolent and petulant Venkys propaganda parrots who prefer to smear and sneer is a well worn tactic by the Happy-Clappers who tend to find it difficult to put aside any of their unreasonable convictions about what they feel Rovers fans ought to think.
An extravagantly arrogant mind set leaving it impossible for them to be objective; sometimes disregarding evidence or questions that challenge them, leading to an aggressive projection of their views involving smarmy smugness, dishonesty and hostile rhetoric.
Therefore Venkys Deniers often find it very difficult to engage on any issues in any other model but their own or tolerate those that do; they twist evidence to suite their own upside-down view of things smearing the character of anyone with opinions they do not agree with that make them feel uncomfortable, "You're only saying that because you're a...[insert hateful ugly accusation/insult]".
In conclusion let us be clear; owd nick, greenscreener, rovrstid, BRFC 1875, incesteachsunday et al are not the voices of moderation. These were the people that blamed the fans for Steve Keans poor tactics, substitutions and transfers; they blamed the fans for the resignations of Williams and Finn and many others; they blamed the fans for the poor performances of Murphy, Best and Etu; they blame the fans for the debt the club is now in; they blame the fans for the looming FFP transfer embargo and they blamed the fans for relegation. This is obscene 'logic'.
They cannot argue with the facts so they make their own up; Rovers fans boo when Rovers are winning and want Gary Bowyer to fail are a couple of their favourite lies.
It's easy to side with the rich and powerful; the corporate media, Agents and multi billionaire owners of football clubs and far more difficult to stand up against. The Happy-Clappers choose to do the former while cynically traducing those people who chose to do the latter.
This is the moral cowardice of opportunism. They know where the money and power is.
What the corporate media did in blaming Rovers' fans for the very problems foisted upon them is a tried and tested media trick. Today we see the unemployed blamed for unemployment, the homeless blamed for homelessness and those in receipt of state welfare unemployment benefits are blamed for the national debt and the fact that Britain is bankrupt.
The weakest, poorest and most vulnerable are blamed for the problems created by the strongest, richest and least vulnerable.
It's easy to see from the writing style of many of the Happy-Clappers across the internet that they are educated and middle-class. They've looked at the images and listened to the descriptions of the protestors that have been presented by the ugly media narrative and fallen for the illusion of seeing them as thuggish bar brawlers; unreasonable, violent and ungrateful; racist, sexist and hateful. Of being 'poor'. And that last point is important because that is the real reason the Happy-Clappers do not like the fans/protestors/indi
viduals that stood up against the looting of Blackburn Rovers by Jerome Anderson and his gang of pirates.
The Happy-Clappers are synthetic middle-class Nuevo Riché SKY SPORTS Premier League era soulless consumers. They are not fans of the working man's game. They hate it. They're fans of lifeless, sterilised stadiums and expensive match day tickets that only they can afford. They enjoy the plastic seats, manufactured corporate atmosphere, names on players shirts, head ache inducing brightly coloured football boots and up- their-own-arse goal celebrations by players who run off to celebrate on their own in front of the nearest TV cameras. At best they're consumers and at worst they're tourists.
These supine lickspittles have a myopic sense of history. They pepper us with their propaganda and would like us all to believe that it's all over. Everything is better. It's in the "past". No it isn't and they've got their 'tenses' mixed up. The Venkys and everything they've wrought upon Blackburn Rovers is still happening now in the present-continuous.
The happy-clappers' minds may have been placated with the first form of communication from the Venkys in the three years since they acquired the club despite repeated pleas from Rovers fans, local MP's, local councillors, local business men, sponsors and even a very professionally produced and well received documentary - but better late than never, I suppose.
Then again, i think the Venkys have been well and truly shafted as well. They have been badly advised by Anderson, Kean and Singh not to mention Agnew. Their own lawyer described Rovers current Director as a "renegade out of control Director" - no one has ever explained precisely what that means. They've paid out a small fortune to Keane, Appleton and Berg and i believe are still paying Singh's wages. Singh meant well but the man was a buffoon and what in the name of God is the pension thieving con artist Hendry still doing at the club? What a fall from grace for a player i used to idolise from The Blackburn End terrace. The Venkys were also badly advised on the sale of Jones to Manchester United plus they're putting £3million a month into the club just to keep it alive. I would not be surprised if there was just a touch of criminal activity going on in the Ewood Park corridors of power back in 2010-2012. As a humane person i can't help but feel a bit sorry for them.
Then i think of the atrocious arrogance they have shown with their deafening silence these past three years.
The open letter recently published was as good as one could expect. I was fine with it. I welcomed it and it is a start but let's not kid ourselves; the club was moving forward and did not need rebuilding until the Venkys gutted it.
I don't agree with those who think Bowyer should be sterner in his criticisms of the Venkys when being interviewed, that's naïve and unreasonable. Indeed, i am sometimes surprised when Bowyer does refer to the traumas of the past three years and the need to rebuild on and off the pitch and repair the damaged relationship with the fans. He is of course correct and i think that in itself is quite strong language so nice one Gary.
Also, I would rather trust Bowyers assessment of Varney. What Bowyer wants is hard working, committed and professionally minded footballers who wo will lead by example and help the youngsters. Varney must be a breath of fresh air around the place after Best, Murphy, Campbell et al.
I totally understand those who are critical of the signing - and those who are not critical - I'd rather wait and see and trust Bowyers judgement. I'd give Dunn a take it or leave it pay-as-you-play deal. I'd hope he'd take it, he still has something to offer and we need his skill and experience. Surely the young man's a millionaire by now?
As for the 2013-2014 season, i have mixed emotions. It was a very poor league and crying out for any team to put a decent little run together. Derby managed it and even Bournemouth nearly sneaked in. Burnley did not have many decent results after being dumped out of the League Cup by West Ham's Reserves yet finished second. That's how poor the league was.
In a decent league Rovers would have struggled and Burnley would not have been promoted. Sheff' Wed's and Birmingham at Christmas and Sheff' Wed's and Yeovil at Easter were the games that cost us the Play Offs but obviously you could chose any games. The Yeovil result was a disgrace.
I'm still not convinced Bowyer can get us promoted. He is a decent man and has worked a minor miracle and will need time if he is to succeed. Rovers should look at Burnley and Dyche. I desperately hope any Rovers manager will succeed and would be particularly pleased for Bowyer and his team of coaches, physios and squad of players if successful because i consider Bowyer to be one of us and because of the passion, genuine love of the club and heartfelt concern for the fans he has displayed. He has also shown great dignity and strikes me as a man of good character.
owd nick, greenscreener, rovrstid, BRFC1875, incesteachsunday et al will be the first to savagely demand Bowyer's sacking, their hateful impatience cascading from the slopes of Ewood Park demanding his head on a platter if Rovers do not have 6 points from their opening three games next season.
These people are extremists. They portray themselves as a flock of sheep but really they are a pack of wolves, (though that is an insult to the noble wolf). They've put all their eggs in the Gary Bowyer basket and that is why any reasonable and rational words of caution are studiously attacked with patronising contempt.
They are the enemies of everything that is good and proper.
--------
The Venky's Reign of Error: The Strange Case of Steve Kean
http://ewoodpark.jim
do.com/the-venky-s-r
eign-of-error-the-st
range-case-of-steve-
kean/[/p][/quote]12-14k gates - "minority"? PMSL! Extremists? Oh dear.
Don't worry, we don't miss you at Ewood. How's Pub team football working out for ya? :D[/p][/quote]Another odd ball post. What makes you think i don't attend matches? The problem with self appointed oracle's of virtue lime you - and this happens every time - is that you conflate opposition to the Venkys with wanting the team to lose. I attend when i can and any one who has ever met me - and there are at least two people who used to be regular contributors to these pages that have - have no doubt of my passion for BRFC.
You sir, are an ****.Rovers F.C.

bluenwhite wrote:
Right we should have a long list of apologies on here from all you so called &quot;fans" who reckoned the apology letter from Venkys was because they were going to put prices up, like you have said every year since they took over!!!
Over the last year they have done well, keeping quiet, still putting in money and now still subsidising ticket prices.
So stop your F@@king moaning and try supporting the team for a change, you never know we might win a few then!!!

Well said. Venky's biggest mistake was buying into a business in which they knew nothing about and then to compound it by allowing so called knowledgeable people to advise and run the business. Those knowledgeable(parasi

tes) people then took it upon themselves to shaft the club to the tune of millions of pounds,remove Allardyce and appoint their own man in Kean who carried on their good work. Just to make matters worst,in stepped Shabby who just had as much idea of managing the affairs of Rovers as would Donald Duck. Having woke up to what was happening to the club,Kean and Shabby both out of the way and two bad managerial appointments later GB was given the job and a year later stability returned to the club. No Rovers fan will forget what Venky's have done to the club,but last season seemed to have been a turning point in what was needed to run this club.They seem to have got a grasp of having the right people in place to take the club forward. We wait to see how they deal with FFP and what sort of budget they have given GB.We can't change the past, we might not like Venky's but we need Venky's at this moment,and if that means being a happy clapper or whatever you want to call like minded fans,so be it,but I will support the team whoever owns this great club.

What a strange post. You provide a long list of grievous errors the Venkys have made then applaud a post that says the fans should apologise.

Again, another topsy version of reality straight out of lala land. When will you oracles of wisdom understand? Being against the Venkys does not mean that you hate the players, coaches, managers and club; do not attend matches; physically assault those that do attend matches and want the team to lose.

Don't you see? Don't you get it? Such monochromed mediocrity.

[quote][p][bold]Rovers F.C.[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]earwego[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]bluenwhite[/bold] wrote:
Right we should have a long list of apologies on here from all you so called "fans" who reckoned the apology letter from Venkys was because they were going to put prices up, like you have said every year since they took over!!!
Over the last year they have done well, keeping quiet, still putting in money and now still subsidising ticket prices.
So stop your F@@king moaning and try supporting the team for a change, you never know we might win a few then!!![/p][/quote]Well said. Venky's biggest mistake was buying into a business in which they knew nothing about and then to compound it by allowing so called knowledgeable people to advise and run the business. Those knowledgeable(parasi
tes) people then took it upon themselves to shaft the club to the tune of millions of pounds,remove Allardyce and appoint their own man in Kean who carried on their good work. Just to make matters worst,in stepped Shabby who just had as much idea of managing the affairs of Rovers as would Donald Duck. Having woke up to what was happening to the club,Kean and Shabby both out of the way and two bad managerial appointments later GB was given the job and a year later stability returned to the club. No Rovers fan will forget what Venky's have done to the club,but last season seemed to have been a turning point in what was needed to run this club.They seem to have got a grasp of having the right people in place to take the club forward. We wait to see how they deal with FFP and what sort of budget they have given GB.We can't change the past, we might not like Venky's but we need Venky's at this moment,and if that means being a happy clapper or whatever you want to call like minded fans,so be it,but I will support the team whoever owns this great club.[/p][/quote]What a strange post. You provide a long list of grievous errors the Venkys have made then applaud a post that says the fans should apologise.[/p][/quote]Again, another topsy version of reality straight out of lala land. When will you oracles of wisdom understand? Being against the Venkys does not mean that you hate the players, coaches, managers and club; do not attend matches; physically assault those that do attend matches and want the team to lose.
Don't you see? Don't you get it? Such monochromed mediocrity.Rovers F.C.

Leonard Venkhater wrote:
Well the first poster clearly didn't listen to Me Agnew's advice to move on! Love the passion and the analysis. The fan blame fallacy also appears to have been internalised by a some very vocal Rovers supporters. I have also wondered whether some of these are actually Venky/Anderson plants.
What happened at BRFC is a national scandal.
Angry as I still am, there is nothing I can do to undo the damage of a small group of self serving( probably criminal) individuals. To their everlasting shame, both the FA and the Premier League have chosen the Pontius Pilate route.
The questions for me are: What outcome is best for BRFC? What should supporters do to support this outcome? I honestly don't know the answers...

Yes, i think a number of them are multiple account holders and possibly Venkys stooges. The fan blame fallacy is very powerful. It's a tried and tested divide and rule tactic. I find the language being used now is the same as that under Keane; we hear talk of "proper fans" and " wanting the team to lose" and "getting behind the team". It is exactly the same language and began in ernest in the week leading up to the 'apology', i suspect skulduggery and jiggery-pokery.

There's even one pratt on here listing the crimes of the Venkys and then demanding an apology from the fans.

Interesting times indeed.

[quote][p][bold]Leonard Venkhater[/bold] wrote:
Well the first poster clearly didn't listen to Me Agnew's advice to move on! Love the passion and the analysis. The fan blame fallacy also appears to have been internalised by a some very vocal Rovers supporters. I have also wondered whether some of these are actually Venky/Anderson plants.
What happened at BRFC is a national scandal.
Angry as I still am, there is nothing I can do to undo the damage of a small group of self serving( probably criminal) individuals. To their everlasting shame, both the FA and the Premier League have chosen the Pontius Pilate route.
The questions for me are: What outcome is best for BRFC? What should supporters do to support this outcome? I honestly don't know the answers...[/p][/quote]Yes, i think a number of them are multiple account holders and possibly Venkys stooges. The fan blame fallacy is very powerful. It's a tried and tested divide and rule tactic. I find the language being used now is the same as that under Keane; we hear talk of "proper fans" and " wanting the team to lose" and "getting behind the team". It is exactly the same language and began in ernest in the week leading up to the 'apology', i suspect skulduggery and jiggery-pokery.
There's even one pratt on here listing the crimes of the Venkys and then demanding an apology from the fans.
Interesting times indeed.Rovers F.C.

Open response to Rovers F.C. Whoever you are and whatever your motives may be...

Sir, as you have decided to call me out on this in public I will reply, because you are attributing views and opinions to me that I do not hold.

If you actually go through the archives and read my words I have been consistently critical of Venkys, Anderson and Kean ever since they arrived. I have never blamed Rovers fans for any of the woes you describe and I have supported Gary Bowyer because he is repairing the club from the inside.

The fact is I am consistent, in my support for Rovers and my utter disdain for those, like yourself, who appear to want to create nothing but chaos and division.

If I am extreme about anything it is my passion for a club I have followed since the 70s and my defence of free speech, even for those, like yourself, who clearly think a gross generalisation will do when you have no actual facts on which to base your tirade.

RTID

Open response to Rovers F.C. Whoever you are and whatever your motives may be...
Sir, as you have decided to call me out on this in public I will reply, because you are attributing views and opinions to me that I do not hold.
If you actually go through the archives and read my words I have been consistently critical of Venkys, Anderson and Kean ever since they arrived. I have never blamed Rovers fans for any of the woes you describe and I have supported Gary Bowyer because he is repairing the club from the inside.
The fact is I am consistent, in my support for Rovers and my utter disdain for those, like yourself, who appear to want to create nothing but chaos and division.
If I am extreme about anything it is my passion for a club I have followed since the 70s and my defence of free speech, even for those, like yourself, who clearly think a gross generalisation will do when you have no actual facts on which to base your tirade.
RTIDgreenscreener

Rovers FC, I still don’t get the point of your long winded pointless post. Unless you own the De Lorean from Back to the Future or Dr Who’s Tardiss how on earth are you going to change what has happened? No one on here will disagree with what Venky’s have done to the club, but Venky’s and Venky’s alone are the only ones who can either try to put it right or sell to a buyer who will invest in a small town football club. I don’t re-call many buyers queuing up when Walkers sold the club do you?
Just because people are quite rightly standing up and saying that the future looks promising does not mean forgetting about the past, or will you continue to be bitter forever?
Would you ever forgive Venky’s even if Rovers got back in the Premier League , probably not as it is far more enjoyable for you to be bitter and twisted and to have a target for your hate. Spare us from your thoughts and don’t bother with the long postings (with a convenient web page link)just chill out.

Rovers FC, I still don’t get the point of your long winded pointless post. Unless you own the De Lorean from Back to the Future or Dr Who’s Tardiss how on earth are you going to change what has happened? No one on here will disagree with what Venky’s have done to the club, but Venky’s and Venky’s alone are the only ones who can either try to put it right or sell to a buyer who will invest in a small town football club. I don’t re-call many buyers queuing up when Walkers sold the club do you?
Just because people are quite rightly standing up and saying that the future looks promising does not mean forgetting about the past, or will you continue to be bitter forever?
Would you ever forgive Venky’s even if Rovers got back in the Premier League , probably not as it is far more enjoyable for you to be bitter and twisted and to have a target for your hate. Spare us from your thoughts and don’t bother with the long postings (with a convenient web page link)just chill out.ppromney

ppromney wrote:
Rovers FC, I still don’t get the point of your long winded pointless post. Unless you own the De Lorean from Back to the Future or Dr Who’s Tardiss how on earth are you going to change what has happened? No one on here will disagree with what Venky’s have done to the club, but Venky’s and Venky’s alone are the only ones who can either try to put it right or sell to a buyer who will invest in a small town football club. I don’t re-call many buyers queuing up when Walkers sold the club do you?
Just because people are quite rightly standing up and saying that the future looks promising does not mean forgetting about the past, or will you continue to be bitter forever?
Would you ever forgive Venky’s even if Rovers got back in the Premier League , probably not as it is far more enjoyable for you to be bitter and twisted and to have a target for your hate. Spare us from your thoughts and don’t bother with the long postings (with a convenient web page link)just chill out.

Again, supine nonsense. When will you blancmanges ever get it? It is not in the "past", it is the present continuous...

[quote][p][bold]ppromney[/bold] wrote:
Rovers FC, I still don’t get the point of your long winded pointless post. Unless you own the De Lorean from Back to the Future or Dr Who’s Tardiss how on earth are you going to change what has happened? No one on here will disagree with what Venky’s have done to the club, but Venky’s and Venky’s alone are the only ones who can either try to put it right or sell to a buyer who will invest in a small town football club. I don’t re-call many buyers queuing up when Walkers sold the club do you?
Just because people are quite rightly standing up and saying that the future looks promising does not mean forgetting about the past, or will you continue to be bitter forever?
Would you ever forgive Venky’s even if Rovers got back in the Premier League , probably not as it is far more enjoyable for you to be bitter and twisted and to have a target for your hate. Spare us from your thoughts and don’t bother with the long postings (with a convenient web page link)just chill out.[/p][/quote]Again, supine nonsense. When will you blancmanges ever get it? It is not in the "past", it is the present continuous...Rovers F.C.

bluenwhite wrote:
Right we should have a long list of apologies on here from all you so called &quot;fans" who reckoned the apology letter from Venkys was because they were going to put prices up, like you have said every year since they took over!!!
Over the last year they have done well, keeping quiet, still putting in money and now still subsidising ticket prices.
So stop your F@@king moaning and try supporting the team for a change, you never know we might win a few then!!!

Well said. Venky's biggest mistake was buying into a business in which they knew nothing about and then to compound it by allowing so called knowledgeable people to advise and run the business. Those knowledgeable(parasi

tes) people then took it upon themselves to shaft the club to the tune of millions of pounds,remove Allardyce and appoint their own man in Kean who carried on their good work. Just to make matters worst,in stepped Shabby who just had as much idea of managing the affairs of Rovers as would Donald Duck. Having woke up to what was happening to the club,Kean and Shabby both out of the way and two bad managerial appointments later GB was given the job and a year later stability returned to the club. No Rovers fan will forget what Venky's have done to the club,but last season seemed to have been a turning point in what was needed to run this club.They seem to have got a grasp of having the right people in place to take the club forward. We wait to see how they deal with FFP and what sort of budget they have given GB.We can't change the past, we might not like Venky's but we need Venky's at this moment,and if that means being a happy clapper or whatever you want to call like minded fans,so be it,but I will support the team whoever owns this great club.

What a strange post. You provide a long list of grievous errors the Venkys have made then applaud a post that says the fans should apologise.

The first post was about ticket prices and fans saying they were about to be increased,it was not asking the fans to apologise for Venky's other failings.We fans have nothing to apologise for,it should come from the Venky's. But that will not stop myself from attending matches and support the team and that does not make me a fan of Venky's but this is where we are and we just got to go with it.

[quote][p][bold]Rovers F.C.[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]earwego[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]bluenwhite[/bold] wrote:
Right we should have a long list of apologies on here from all you so called "fans" who reckoned the apology letter from Venkys was because they were going to put prices up, like you have said every year since they took over!!!
Over the last year they have done well, keeping quiet, still putting in money and now still subsidising ticket prices.
So stop your F@@king moaning and try supporting the team for a change, you never know we might win a few then!!![/p][/quote]Well said. Venky's biggest mistake was buying into a business in which they knew nothing about and then to compound it by allowing so called knowledgeable people to advise and run the business. Those knowledgeable(parasi
tes) people then took it upon themselves to shaft the club to the tune of millions of pounds,remove Allardyce and appoint their own man in Kean who carried on their good work. Just to make matters worst,in stepped Shabby who just had as much idea of managing the affairs of Rovers as would Donald Duck. Having woke up to what was happening to the club,Kean and Shabby both out of the way and two bad managerial appointments later GB was given the job and a year later stability returned to the club. No Rovers fan will forget what Venky's have done to the club,but last season seemed to have been a turning point in what was needed to run this club.They seem to have got a grasp of having the right people in place to take the club forward. We wait to see how they deal with FFP and what sort of budget they have given GB.We can't change the past, we might not like Venky's but we need Venky's at this moment,and if that means being a happy clapper or whatever you want to call like minded fans,so be it,but I will support the team whoever owns this great club.[/p][/quote]What a strange post. You provide a long list of grievous errors the Venkys have made then applaud a post that says the fans should apologise.[/p][/quote]The first post was about ticket prices and fans saying they were about to be increased,it was not asking the fans to apologise for Venky's other failings.We fans have nothing to apologise for,it should come from the Venky's. But that will not stop myself from attending matches and support the team and that does not make me a fan of Venky's but this is where we are and we just got to go with it.earwego

bluenwhite wrote:
Right we should have a long list of apologies on here from all you so called &quot;fans" who reckoned the apology letter from Venkys was because they were going to put prices up, like you have said every year since they took over!!!
Over the last year they have done well, keeping quiet, still putting in money and now still subsidising ticket prices.
So stop your F@@king moaning and try supporting the team for a change, you never know we might win a few then!!!

Well said. Venky's biggest mistake was buying into a business in which they knew nothing about and then to compound it by allowing so called knowledgeable people to advise and run the business. Those knowledgeable(parasi

tes) people then took it upon themselves to shaft the club to the tune of millions of pounds,remove Allardyce and appoint their own man in Kean who carried on their good work. Just to make matters worst,in stepped Shabby who just had as much idea of managing the affairs of Rovers as would Donald Duck. Having woke up to what was happening to the club,Kean and Shabby both out of the way and two bad managerial appointments later GB was given the job and a year later stability returned to the club. No Rovers fan will forget what Venky's have done to the club,but last season seemed to have been a turning point in what was needed to run this club.They seem to have got a grasp of having the right people in place to take the club forward. We wait to see how they deal with FFP and what sort of budget they have given GB.We can't change the past, we might not like Venky's but we need Venky's at this moment,and if that means being a happy clapper or whatever you want to call like minded fans,so be it,but I will support the team whoever owns this great club.

I'm sorry earwego but you are doing EXACTLY what that guy with the "war and peace" first post accuses some Rovers fans of doing - you are re-writing history to fit nicely into how you see things now (re - Venkys) NOT accepting what actually happened.

You paint Venkys at the point of the takeover as bumbling know nothing buffoons but this is NOT the case.

At this point they (the Venky family) had bought out over 50 businessess, many of them overseas from India and in business'es which they had never operated.

They were EXPERIENCED takeover business people.

They would have known that the first thing you do when operating overseas in a country you do not know and in a business you do not know is to employ the best LAWYERS and ACCOUNTANTS you can do, then you get the best people in on the ground to do the day to day running of the business - they had THE best CEO in the business and instead of staying with him until they had found their feet they rushed into change and went with a chancer - anyone who takes 2 minutes to google Jerome Anderson can clearly see that he was a sports agent with a dodgey reputation, he was not a football club CEO and therefore was not qualified to run BRFC and Venkys must have known they were taking a huge gamble when they did so.

Venkys appointed JA because they were GREEDY - he spun them a yarn about it beeing easy to get great young talent (eg Goodwillie) start their careers and then sell them at a big fat profit and to do this over and over again (like if it was so easy why didnt EVERY club do it and make huge profits??)

You then said "Shebby Singh materialised" - like he was zapped down from outer space - NO !! he was not.

By this point Venkys had been in charge of BRFC for 2 years and THEY appointed SS, it was their CHOICE to do so - the debarkle of the 2012-2013 season was all down to the VENKYS not Shebby Singh - why, because they CHOSE to employ him (can you image a single other of the 91 football league clubs employing that cretin as anything other than a halftime mascot?).

You may be right that we should be practical and accept Venkys because at the moment (due to their GROSS mismanagement) of the club, we are stuck with them and financially reliant on them - that is fine but please DO NOT absolve them of blame in years gone by just to make things better in your own mind - this is the history of our great club and the story needs to be remembered CORRECTLY, not massaged and changed.

[quote][p][bold]earwego[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]bluenwhite[/bold] wrote:
Right we should have a long list of apologies on here from all you so called "fans" who reckoned the apology letter from Venkys was because they were going to put prices up, like you have said every year since they took over!!!
Over the last year they have done well, keeping quiet, still putting in money and now still subsidising ticket prices.
So stop your F@@king moaning and try supporting the team for a change, you never know we might win a few then!!![/p][/quote]Well said. Venky's biggest mistake was buying into a business in which they knew nothing about and then to compound it by allowing so called knowledgeable people to advise and run the business. Those knowledgeable(parasi
tes) people then took it upon themselves to shaft the club to the tune of millions of pounds,remove Allardyce and appoint their own man in Kean who carried on their good work. Just to make matters worst,in stepped Shabby who just had as much idea of managing the affairs of Rovers as would Donald Duck. Having woke up to what was happening to the club,Kean and Shabby both out of the way and two bad managerial appointments later GB was given the job and a year later stability returned to the club. No Rovers fan will forget what Venky's have done to the club,but last season seemed to have been a turning point in what was needed to run this club.They seem to have got a grasp of having the right people in place to take the club forward. We wait to see how they deal with FFP and what sort of budget they have given GB.We can't change the past, we might not like Venky's but we need Venky's at this moment,and if that means being a happy clapper or whatever you want to call like minded fans,so be it,but I will support the team whoever owns this great club.[/p][/quote]I'm sorry earwego but you are doing EXACTLY what that guy with the "war and peace" first post accuses some Rovers fans of doing - you are re-writing history to fit nicely into how you see things now (re - Venkys) NOT accepting what actually happened.
You paint Venkys at the point of the takeover as bumbling know nothing buffoons but this is NOT the case.
At this point they (the Venky family) had bought out over 50 businessess, many of them overseas from India and in business'es which they had never operated.
They were EXPERIENCED takeover business people.
They would have known that the first thing you do when operating overseas in a country you do not know and in a business you do not know is to employ the best LAWYERS and ACCOUNTANTS you can do, then you get the best people in on the ground to do the day to day running of the business - they had THE best CEO in the business and instead of staying with him until they had found their feet they rushed into change and went with a chancer - anyone who takes 2 minutes to google Jerome Anderson can clearly see that he was a sports agent with a dodgey reputation, he was not a football club CEO and therefore was not qualified to run BRFC and Venkys must have known they were taking a huge gamble when they did so.
Venkys appointed JA because they were GREEDY - he spun them a yarn about it beeing easy to get great young talent (eg Goodwillie) start their careers and then sell them at a big fat profit and to do this over and over again (like if it was so easy why didnt EVERY club do it and make huge profits??)
You then said "Shebby Singh materialised" - like he was zapped down from outer space - NO !! he was not.
By this point Venkys had been in charge of BRFC for 2 years and THEY appointed SS, it was their CHOICE to do so - the debarkle of the 2012-2013 season was all down to the VENKYS not Shebby Singh - why, because they CHOSE to employ him (can you image a single other of the 91 football league clubs employing that cretin as anything other than a halftime mascot?).
You may be right that we should be practical and accept Venkys because at the moment (due to their GROSS mismanagement) of the club, we are stuck with them and financially reliant on them - that is fine but please DO NOT absolve them of blame in years gone by just to make things better in your own mind - this is the history of our great club and the story needs to be remembered CORRECTLY, not massaged and changed.J.C - Rishton

Leonard Venkhater wrote:
Well the first poster clearly didn't listen to Me Agnew's advice to move on! Love the passion and the analysis. The fan blame fallacy also appears to have been internalised by a some very vocal Rovers supporters. I have also wondered whether some of these are actually Venky/Anderson plants.
What happened at BRFC is a national scandal.
Angry as I still am, there is nothing I can do to undo the damage of a small group of self serving( probably criminal) individuals. To their everlasting shame, both the FA and the Premier League have chosen the Pontius Pilate route.
The questions for me are: What outcome is best for BRFC? What should supporters do to support this outcome? I honestly don't know the answers...

Yes, i think a number of them are multiple account holders and possibly Venkys stooges. The fan blame fallacy is very powerful. It's a tried and tested divide and rule tactic. I find the language being used now is the same as that under Keane; we hear talk of &quot;proper fans" and " wanting the team to lose" and "getting behind the team". It is exactly the same language and began in ernest in the week leading up to the 'apology', i suspect skulduggery and jiggery-pokery.

There's even one pratt on here listing the crimes of the Venkys and then demanding an apology from the fans.

Interesting times indeed.

Who you calling a pratt,? and no,I don't have multiple accounts.

[quote][p][bold]Rovers F.C.[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Leonard Venkhater[/bold] wrote:
Well the first poster clearly didn't listen to Me Agnew's advice to move on! Love the passion and the analysis. The fan blame fallacy also appears to have been internalised by a some very vocal Rovers supporters. I have also wondered whether some of these are actually Venky/Anderson plants.
What happened at BRFC is a national scandal.
Angry as I still am, there is nothing I can do to undo the damage of a small group of self serving( probably criminal) individuals. To their everlasting shame, both the FA and the Premier League have chosen the Pontius Pilate route.
The questions for me are: What outcome is best for BRFC? What should supporters do to support this outcome? I honestly don't know the answers...[/p][/quote]Yes, i think a number of them are multiple account holders and possibly Venkys stooges. The fan blame fallacy is very powerful. It's a tried and tested divide and rule tactic. I find the language being used now is the same as that under Keane; we hear talk of "proper fans" and " wanting the team to lose" and "getting behind the team". It is exactly the same language and began in ernest in the week leading up to the 'apology', i suspect skulduggery and jiggery-pokery.
There's even one pratt on here listing the crimes of the Venkys and then demanding an apology from the fans.
Interesting times indeed.[/p][/quote]Who you calling a pratt,? and no,I don't have multiple accounts.earwego

bluenwhite wrote:
Right we should have a long list of apologies on here from all you so called &quot;fans" who reckoned the apology letter from Venkys was because they were going to put prices up, like you have said every year since they took over!!!
Over the last year they have done well, keeping quiet, still putting in money and now still subsidising ticket prices.
So stop your F@@king moaning and try supporting the team for a change, you never know we might win a few then!!!

Well said. Venky's biggest mistake was buying into a business in which they knew nothing about and then to compound it by allowing so called knowledgeable people to advise and run the business. Those knowledgeable(parasi

tes) people then took it upon themselves to shaft the club to the tune of millions of pounds,remove Allardyce and appoint their own man in Kean who carried on their good work. Just to make matters worst,in stepped Shabby who just had as much idea of managing the affairs of Rovers as would Donald Duck. Having woke up to what was happening to the club,Kean and Shabby both out of the way and two bad managerial appointments later GB was given the job and a year later stability returned to the club. No Rovers fan will forget what Venky's have done to the club,but last season seemed to have been a turning point in what was needed to run this club.They seem to have got a grasp of having the right people in place to take the club forward. We wait to see how they deal with FFP and what sort of budget they have given GB.We can't change the past, we might not like Venky's but we need Venky's at this moment,and if that means being a happy clapper or whatever you want to call like minded fans,so be it,but I will support the team whoever owns this great club.

I'm sorry earwego but you are doing EXACTLY what that guy with the "war and peace" first post accuses some Rovers fans of doing - you are re-writing history to fit nicely into how you see things now (re - Venkys) NOT accepting what actually happened.

You paint Venkys at the point of the takeover as bumbling know nothing buffoons but this is NOT the case.

At this point they (the Venky family) had bought out over 50 businessess, many of them overseas from India and in business'es which they had never operated.

They were EXPERIENCED takeover business people.

They would have known that the first thing you do when operating overseas in a country you do not know and in a business you do not know is to employ the best LAWYERS and ACCOUNTANTS you can do, then you get the best people in on the ground to do the day to day running of the business - they had THE best CEO in the business and instead of staying with him until they had found their feet they rushed into change and went with a chancer - anyone who takes 2 minutes to google Jerome Anderson can clearly see that he was a sports agent with a dodgey reputation, he was not a football club CEO and therefore was not qualified to run BRFC and Venkys must have known they were taking a huge gamble when they did so.

Venkys appointed JA because they were GREEDY - he spun them a yarn about it beeing easy to get great young talent (eg Goodwillie) start their careers and then sell them at a big fat profit and to do this over and over again (like if it was so easy why didnt EVERY club do it and make huge profits??)

You then said "Shebby Singh materialised" - like he was zapped down from outer space - NO !! he was not.

By this point Venkys had been in charge of BRFC for 2 years and THEY appointed SS, it was their CHOICE to do so - the debarkle of the 2012-2013 season was all down to the VENKYS not Shebby Singh - why, because they CHOSE to employ him (can you image a single other of the 91 football league clubs employing that cretin as anything other than a halftime mascot?).

You may be right that we should be practical and accept Venkys because at the moment (due to their GROSS mismanagement) of the club, we are stuck with them and financially reliant on them - that is fine but please DO NOT absolve them of blame in years gone by just to make things better in your own mind - this is the history of our great club and the story needs to be remembered CORRECTLY, not massaged and changed.

Venkys made mistakes which they are trying to rectify.

No need to forgive and certainly cannot forget. But our choices are get behind the team, enjoy the football and hope for a miracle or stay away and sit at home pouring hate on Venkys every move pretending time can reverse back the Walkers Trust ownership.

Guess which route the majority AND sensible REAL SUPPORTERS have taken?

[quote][p][bold]J.C - Rishton[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]earwego[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]bluenwhite[/bold] wrote:
Right we should have a long list of apologies on here from all you so called "fans" who reckoned the apology letter from Venkys was because they were going to put prices up, like you have said every year since they took over!!!
Over the last year they have done well, keeping quiet, still putting in money and now still subsidising ticket prices.
So stop your F@@king moaning and try supporting the team for a change, you never know we might win a few then!!![/p][/quote]Well said. Venky's biggest mistake was buying into a business in which they knew nothing about and then to compound it by allowing so called knowledgeable people to advise and run the business. Those knowledgeable(parasi
tes) people then took it upon themselves to shaft the club to the tune of millions of pounds,remove Allardyce and appoint their own man in Kean who carried on their good work. Just to make matters worst,in stepped Shabby who just had as much idea of managing the affairs of Rovers as would Donald Duck. Having woke up to what was happening to the club,Kean and Shabby both out of the way and two bad managerial appointments later GB was given the job and a year later stability returned to the club. No Rovers fan will forget what Venky's have done to the club,but last season seemed to have been a turning point in what was needed to run this club.They seem to have got a grasp of having the right people in place to take the club forward. We wait to see how they deal with FFP and what sort of budget they have given GB.We can't change the past, we might not like Venky's but we need Venky's at this moment,and if that means being a happy clapper or whatever you want to call like minded fans,so be it,but I will support the team whoever owns this great club.[/p][/quote]I'm sorry earwego but you are doing EXACTLY what that guy with the "war and peace" first post accuses some Rovers fans of doing - you are re-writing history to fit nicely into how you see things now (re - Venkys) NOT accepting what actually happened.
You paint Venkys at the point of the takeover as bumbling know nothing buffoons but this is NOT the case.
At this point they (the Venky family) had bought out over 50 businessess, many of them overseas from India and in business'es which they had never operated.
They were EXPERIENCED takeover business people.
They would have known that the first thing you do when operating overseas in a country you do not know and in a business you do not know is to employ the best LAWYERS and ACCOUNTANTS you can do, then you get the best people in on the ground to do the day to day running of the business - they had THE best CEO in the business and instead of staying with him until they had found their feet they rushed into change and went with a chancer - anyone who takes 2 minutes to google Jerome Anderson can clearly see that he was a sports agent with a dodgey reputation, he was not a football club CEO and therefore was not qualified to run BRFC and Venkys must have known they were taking a huge gamble when they did so.
Venkys appointed JA because they were GREEDY - he spun them a yarn about it beeing easy to get great young talent (eg Goodwillie) start their careers and then sell them at a big fat profit and to do this over and over again (like if it was so easy why didnt EVERY club do it and make huge profits??)
You then said "Shebby Singh materialised" - like he was zapped down from outer space - NO !! he was not.
By this point Venkys had been in charge of BRFC for 2 years and THEY appointed SS, it was their CHOICE to do so - the debarkle of the 2012-2013 season was all down to the VENKYS not Shebby Singh - why, because they CHOSE to employ him (can you image a single other of the 91 football league clubs employing that cretin as anything other than a halftime mascot?).
You may be right that we should be practical and accept Venkys because at the moment (due to their GROSS mismanagement) of the club, we are stuck with them and financially reliant on them - that is fine but please DO NOT absolve them of blame in years gone by just to make things better in your own mind - this is the history of our great club and the story needs to be remembered CORRECTLY, not massaged and changed.[/p][/quote]Venkys made mistakes which they are trying to rectify.
No need to forgive and certainly cannot forget. But our choices are get behind the team, enjoy the football and hope for a miracle or stay away and sit at home pouring hate on Venkys every move pretending time can reverse back the Walkers Trust ownership.
Guess which route the majority AND sensible REAL SUPPORTERS have taken?
ps. Rovers FC, loving the hate, keep going it only serves hurts you ;)roverstid

bluenwhite wrote:
Right we should have a long list of apologies on here from all you so called &quot;fans" who reckoned the apology letter from Venkys was because they were going to put prices up, like you have said every year since they took over!!!
Over the last year they have done well, keeping quiet, still putting in money and now still subsidising ticket prices.
So stop your F@@king moaning and try supporting the team for a change, you never know we might win a few then!!!

Well said. Venky's biggest mistake was buying into a business in which they knew nothing about and then to compound it by allowing so called knowledgeable people to advise and run the business. Those knowledgeable(parasi

tes) people then took it upon themselves to shaft the club to the tune of millions of pounds,remove Allardyce and appoint their own man in Kean who carried on their good work. Just to make matters worst,in stepped Shabby who just had as much idea of managing the affairs of Rovers as would Donald Duck. Having woke up to what was happening to the club,Kean and Shabby both out of the way and two bad managerial appointments later GB was given the job and a year later stability returned to the club. No Rovers fan will forget what Venky's have done to the club,but last season seemed to have been a turning point in what was needed to run this club.They seem to have got a grasp of having the right people in place to take the club forward. We wait to see how they deal with FFP and what sort of budget they have given GB.We can't change the past, we might not like Venky's but we need Venky's at this moment,and if that means being a happy clapper or whatever you want to call like minded fans,so be it,but I will support the team whoever owns this great club.

I'm sorry earwego but you are doing EXACTLY what that guy with the "war and peace" first post accuses some Rovers fans of doing - you are re-writing history to fit nicely into how you see things now (re - Venkys) NOT accepting what actually happened.

You paint Venkys at the point of the takeover as bumbling know nothing buffoons but this is NOT the case.

At this point they (the Venky family) had bought out over 50 businessess, many of them overseas from India and in business'es which they had never operated.

They were EXPERIENCED takeover business people.

They would have known that the first thing you do when operating overseas in a country you do not know and in a business you do not know is to employ the best LAWYERS and ACCOUNTANTS you can do, then you get the best people in on the ground to do the day to day running of the business - they had THE best CEO in the business and instead of staying with him until they had found their feet they rushed into change and went with a chancer - anyone who takes 2 minutes to google Jerome Anderson can clearly see that he was a sports agent with a dodgey reputation, he was not a football club CEO and therefore was not qualified to run BRFC and Venkys must have known they were taking a huge gamble when they did so.

Venkys appointed JA because they were GREEDY - he spun them a yarn about it beeing easy to get great young talent (eg Goodwillie) start their careers and then sell them at a big fat profit and to do this over and over again (like if it was so easy why didnt EVERY club do it and make huge profits??)

You then said "Shebby Singh materialised" - like he was zapped down from outer space - NO !! he was not.

By this point Venkys had been in charge of BRFC for 2 years and THEY appointed SS, it was their CHOICE to do so - the debarkle of the 2012-2013 season was all down to the VENKYS not Shebby Singh - why, because they CHOSE to employ him (can you image a single other of the 91 football league clubs employing that cretin as anything other than a halftime mascot?).

You may be right that we should be practical and accept Venkys because at the moment (due to their GROSS mismanagement) of the club, we are stuck with them and financially reliant on them - that is fine but please DO NOT absolve them of blame in years gone by just to make things better in your own mind - this is the history of our great club and the story needs to be remembered CORRECTLY, not massaged and changed.

Is this fact or your opinion? "Shebby Singh materialised" where did you get that from? do you have answers ready before you read comments? Listen I have my point of view,you have yours, if you want people to respect your views,then respect theirs whether you like it or not. so cut out the "pratt"

[quote][p][bold]J.C - Rishton[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]earwego[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]bluenwhite[/bold] wrote:
Right we should have a long list of apologies on here from all you so called "fans" who reckoned the apology letter from Venkys was because they were going to put prices up, like you have said every year since they took over!!!
Over the last year they have done well, keeping quiet, still putting in money and now still subsidising ticket prices.
So stop your F@@king moaning and try supporting the team for a change, you never know we might win a few then!!![/p][/quote]Well said. Venky's biggest mistake was buying into a business in which they knew nothing about and then to compound it by allowing so called knowledgeable people to advise and run the business. Those knowledgeable(parasi
tes) people then took it upon themselves to shaft the club to the tune of millions of pounds,remove Allardyce and appoint their own man in Kean who carried on their good work. Just to make matters worst,in stepped Shabby who just had as much idea of managing the affairs of Rovers as would Donald Duck. Having woke up to what was happening to the club,Kean and Shabby both out of the way and two bad managerial appointments later GB was given the job and a year later stability returned to the club. No Rovers fan will forget what Venky's have done to the club,but last season seemed to have been a turning point in what was needed to run this club.They seem to have got a grasp of having the right people in place to take the club forward. We wait to see how they deal with FFP and what sort of budget they have given GB.We can't change the past, we might not like Venky's but we need Venky's at this moment,and if that means being a happy clapper or whatever you want to call like minded fans,so be it,but I will support the team whoever owns this great club.[/p][/quote]I'm sorry earwego but you are doing EXACTLY what that guy with the "war and peace" first post accuses some Rovers fans of doing - you are re-writing history to fit nicely into how you see things now (re - Venkys) NOT accepting what actually happened.
You paint Venkys at the point of the takeover as bumbling know nothing buffoons but this is NOT the case.
At this point they (the Venky family) had bought out over 50 businessess, many of them overseas from India and in business'es which they had never operated.
They were EXPERIENCED takeover business people.
They would have known that the first thing you do when operating overseas in a country you do not know and in a business you do not know is to employ the best LAWYERS and ACCOUNTANTS you can do, then you get the best people in on the ground to do the day to day running of the business - they had THE best CEO in the business and instead of staying with him until they had found their feet they rushed into change and went with a chancer - anyone who takes 2 minutes to google Jerome Anderson can clearly see that he was a sports agent with a dodgey reputation, he was not a football club CEO and therefore was not qualified to run BRFC and Venkys must have known they were taking a huge gamble when they did so.
Venkys appointed JA because they were GREEDY - he spun them a yarn about it beeing easy to get great young talent (eg Goodwillie) start their careers and then sell them at a big fat profit and to do this over and over again (like if it was so easy why didnt EVERY club do it and make huge profits??)
You then said "Shebby Singh materialised" - like he was zapped down from outer space - NO !! he was not.
By this point Venkys had been in charge of BRFC for 2 years and THEY appointed SS, it was their CHOICE to do so - the debarkle of the 2012-2013 season was all down to the VENKYS not Shebby Singh - why, because they CHOSE to employ him (can you image a single other of the 91 football league clubs employing that cretin as anything other than a halftime mascot?).
You may be right that we should be practical and accept Venkys because at the moment (due to their GROSS mismanagement) of the club, we are stuck with them and financially reliant on them - that is fine but please DO NOT absolve them of blame in years gone by just to make things better in your own mind - this is the history of our great club and the story needs to be remembered CORRECTLY, not massaged and changed.[/p][/quote]Is this fact or your opinion? "Shebby Singh materialised" where did you get that from? do you have answers ready before you read comments? Listen I have my point of view,you have yours, if you want people to respect your views,then respect theirs whether you like it or not. so cut out the "pratt"earwego

Although I'm not directly affected by season ticket prices, it's good to see that Rovers are not trying to hold the loyal fans to ransom, despite the current financial situation the club finds itself in. By the time I've taken travel costs, ticket prices and accommodation into account, I'll be lucky to get to three away games for the price of a season ticket. I'd guess that watching Rovers next season will cost me between £1500-£2000, primarily because the easiest games for me to get to, aside from Cardiff, are those in London. Fulham, Brentford, Charlton and Millwall, where an overnight stay is required.

I'm looking forward to going to Griffin Park next season as I've never been there. I've read some great reviews about the match day experience, and I will definitely be partaking in a pint of the local fare in each of the four pubs situated on each corner of the stadium.

Dewch Ar Chi Gleision!

Although I'm not directly affected by season ticket prices, it's good to see that Rovers are not trying to hold the loyal fans to ransom, despite the current financial situation the club finds itself in. By the time I've taken travel costs, ticket prices and accommodation into account, I'll be lucky to get to three away games for the price of a season ticket. I'd guess that watching Rovers next season will cost me between £1500-£2000, primarily because the easiest games for me to get to, aside from Cardiff, are those in London. Fulham, Brentford, Charlton and Millwall, where an overnight stay is required.
I'm looking forward to going to Griffin Park next season as I've never been there. I've read some great reviews about the match day experience, and I will definitely be partaking in a pint of the local fare in each of the four pubs situated on each corner of the stadium.
Dewch Ar Chi Gleision!Welsh Rover

But to your point about Venkys appointing Anderson because they were GREEDY.

GREEDY for what exactly? Naive, stupid, another indian company taken for a ride by shysters maybe but I fail to see what they themselves were going to get out of it, seeing that we can now put the "asset stripping" accusations which were thrown about in the keanite days.

Last season they stayed in the background, supported Bowyer in the transfer window, kept hold of our best assets and now an apology of sorts. A long way to go yet but most people would have taken that two years ago.

The reason the suspected "Venkys plants"/apologists - or more realistically thw MAJORITY of fans on here get annoyed by the neggies is their persistant need to keep on raking up the past every time Venkys open their mouth or a poster is looking forward and trying to look for some positives - of which on the field at least there were many.

It just seems some posters are afraid people will forget or have forgiven Venkys just because things are starting to look brighter now that we have a decent and honest manager in Gary Bowyer.

That's the conspiracy loving haters problem.

Sorry JC wrong post quoted.
But to your point about Venkys appointing Anderson because they were GREEDY.
GREEDY for what exactly? Naive, stupid, another indian company taken for a ride by shysters maybe but I fail to see what they themselves were going to get out of it, seeing that we can now put the "asset stripping" accusations which were thrown about in the keanite days.
Venkys mistakes were sacking BFS, appointing Kean, sticking with Kean, introducing Shabby, listening to Shabby. That was pre-Bowyer.
Last season they stayed in the background, supported Bowyer in the transfer window, kept hold of our best assets and now an apology of sorts. A long way to go yet but most people would have taken that two years ago.
The reason the suspected "Venkys plants"/apologists - or more realistically thw MAJORITY of fans on here get annoyed by the neggies is their persistant need to keep on raking up the past every time Venkys open their mouth or a poster is looking forward and trying to look for some positives - of which on the field at least there were many.
It just seems some posters are afraid people will forget or have forgiven Venkys just because things are starting to look brighter now that we have a decent and honest manager in Gary Bowyer.
That's the conspiracy loving haters problem.roverstid

bluenwhite wrote:
Right we should have a long list of apologies on here from all you so called &quot;fans" who reckoned the apology letter from Venkys was because they were going to put prices up, like you have said every year since they took over!!!
Over the last year they have done well, keeping quiet, still putting in money and now still subsidising ticket prices.
So stop your F@@king moaning and try supporting the team for a change, you never know we might win a few then!!!

Well said. Venky's biggest mistake was buying into a business in which they knew nothing about and then to compound it by allowing so called knowledgeable people to advise and run the business. Those knowledgeable(parasi

tes) people then took it upon themselves to shaft the club to the tune of millions of pounds,remove Allardyce and appoint their own man in Kean who carried on their good work. Just to make matters worst,in stepped Shabby who just had as much idea of managing the affairs of Rovers as would Donald Duck. Having woke up to what was happening to the club,Kean and Shabby both out of the way and two bad managerial appointments later GB was given the job and a year later stability returned to the club. No Rovers fan will forget what Venky's have done to the club,but last season seemed to have been a turning point in what was needed to run this club.They seem to have got a grasp of having the right people in place to take the club forward. We wait to see how they deal with FFP and what sort of budget they have given GB.We can't change the past, we might not like Venky's but we need Venky's at this moment,and if that means being a happy clapper or whatever you want to call like minded fans,so be it,but I will support the team whoever owns this great club.

I'm sorry earwego but you are doing EXACTLY what that guy with the "war and peace" first post accuses some Rovers fans of doing - you are re-writing history to fit nicely into how you see things now (re - Venkys) NOT accepting what actually happened.

You paint Venkys at the point of the takeover as bumbling know nothing buffoons but this is NOT the case.

At this point they (the Venky family) had bought out over 50 businessess, many of them overseas from India and in business'es which they had never operated.

They were EXPERIENCED takeover business people.

They would have known that the first thing you do when operating overseas in a country you do not know and in a business you do not know is to employ the best LAWYERS and ACCOUNTANTS you can do, then you get the best people in on the ground to do the day to day running of the business - they had THE best CEO in the business and instead of staying with him until they had found their feet they rushed into change and went with a chancer - anyone who takes 2 minutes to google Jerome Anderson can clearly see that he was a sports agent with a dodgey reputation, he was not a football club CEO and therefore was not qualified to run BRFC and Venkys must have known they were taking a huge gamble when they did so.

Venkys appointed JA because they were GREEDY - he spun them a yarn about it beeing easy to get great young talent (eg Goodwillie) start their careers and then sell them at a big fat profit and to do this over and over again (like if it was so easy why didnt EVERY club do it and make huge profits??)

You then said "Shebby Singh materialised" - like he was zapped down from outer space - NO !! he was not.

By this point Venkys had been in charge of BRFC for 2 years and THEY appointed SS, it was their CHOICE to do so - the debarkle of the 2012-2013 season was all down to the VENKYS not Shebby Singh - why, because they CHOSE to employ him (can you image a single other of the 91 football league clubs employing that cretin as anything other than a halftime mascot?).

You may be right that we should be practical and accept Venkys because at the moment (due to their GROSS mismanagement) of the club, we are stuck with them and financially reliant on them - that is fine but please DO NOT absolve them of blame in years gone by just to make things better in your own mind - this is the history of our great club and the story needs to be remembered CORRECTLY, not massaged and changed.

Venkys made mistakes which they are trying to rectify.

No need to forgive and certainly cannot forget. But our choices are get behind the team, enjoy the football and hope for a miracle or stay away and sit at home pouring hate on Venkys every move pretending time can reverse back the Walkers Trust ownership.

Guess which route the majority AND sensible REAL SUPPORTERS have taken?

There you going again. "Get behind the team", "haters" etc.You are doing exactly what i accuse you of in my post. Why would you chose to expose yourself like that?

And again, you conflate my disdain and knowledge of what has happened to BRFC with irrational emotionality. Your sleight-of-hand does not fool me and the more discerningly intelligent readers will see through your rhetoric.

Also, don't confuse my hatred of people such as yourself and your Geobellian propaganda which seeks to promote the fan blame fallacy with a hatred of the Venkys, (implying racism, sexism and lack of analysis).

"Hate" is a very strong word and I'm not sure i actually "hate" anyone. I dislike people and often "hate" things such as cruelty to animals (i am a vegetarian) drunkenness (i am tee-total) and racism (i have marched against the EDL).

The only people who used the word "hate" are people like you who don't engage with ideas but choose to smear people instead - with the very thing you are full of.

Hope this helps.

Yours fraternally :)

[quote][p][bold]roverstid[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]J.C - Rishton[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]earwego[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]bluenwhite[/bold] wrote:
Right we should have a long list of apologies on here from all you so called "fans" who reckoned the apology letter from Venkys was because they were going to put prices up, like you have said every year since they took over!!!
Over the last year they have done well, keeping quiet, still putting in money and now still subsidising ticket prices.
So stop your F@@king moaning and try supporting the team for a change, you never know we might win a few then!!![/p][/quote]Well said. Venky's biggest mistake was buying into a business in which they knew nothing about and then to compound it by allowing so called knowledgeable people to advise and run the business. Those knowledgeable(parasi
tes) people then took it upon themselves to shaft the club to the tune of millions of pounds,remove Allardyce and appoint their own man in Kean who carried on their good work. Just to make matters worst,in stepped Shabby who just had as much idea of managing the affairs of Rovers as would Donald Duck. Having woke up to what was happening to the club,Kean and Shabby both out of the way and two bad managerial appointments later GB was given the job and a year later stability returned to the club. No Rovers fan will forget what Venky's have done to the club,but last season seemed to have been a turning point in what was needed to run this club.They seem to have got a grasp of having the right people in place to take the club forward. We wait to see how they deal with FFP and what sort of budget they have given GB.We can't change the past, we might not like Venky's but we need Venky's at this moment,and if that means being a happy clapper or whatever you want to call like minded fans,so be it,but I will support the team whoever owns this great club.[/p][/quote]I'm sorry earwego but you are doing EXACTLY what that guy with the "war and peace" first post accuses some Rovers fans of doing - you are re-writing history to fit nicely into how you see things now (re - Venkys) NOT accepting what actually happened.
You paint Venkys at the point of the takeover as bumbling know nothing buffoons but this is NOT the case.
At this point they (the Venky family) had bought out over 50 businessess, many of them overseas from India and in business'es which they had never operated.
They were EXPERIENCED takeover business people.
They would have known that the first thing you do when operating overseas in a country you do not know and in a business you do not know is to employ the best LAWYERS and ACCOUNTANTS you can do, then you get the best people in on the ground to do the day to day running of the business - they had THE best CEO in the business and instead of staying with him until they had found their feet they rushed into change and went with a chancer - anyone who takes 2 minutes to google Jerome Anderson can clearly see that he was a sports agent with a dodgey reputation, he was not a football club CEO and therefore was not qualified to run BRFC and Venkys must have known they were taking a huge gamble when they did so.
Venkys appointed JA because they were GREEDY - he spun them a yarn about it beeing easy to get great young talent (eg Goodwillie) start their careers and then sell them at a big fat profit and to do this over and over again (like if it was so easy why didnt EVERY club do it and make huge profits??)
You then said "Shebby Singh materialised" - like he was zapped down from outer space - NO !! he was not.
By this point Venkys had been in charge of BRFC for 2 years and THEY appointed SS, it was their CHOICE to do so - the debarkle of the 2012-2013 season was all down to the VENKYS not Shebby Singh - why, because they CHOSE to employ him (can you image a single other of the 91 football league clubs employing that cretin as anything other than a halftime mascot?).
You may be right that we should be practical and accept Venkys because at the moment (due to their GROSS mismanagement) of the club, we are stuck with them and financially reliant on them - that is fine but please DO NOT absolve them of blame in years gone by just to make things better in your own mind - this is the history of our great club and the story needs to be remembered CORRECTLY, not massaged and changed.[/p][/quote]Venkys made mistakes which they are trying to rectify.
No need to forgive and certainly cannot forget. But our choices are get behind the team, enjoy the football and hope for a miracle or stay away and sit at home pouring hate on Venkys every move pretending time can reverse back the Walkers Trust ownership.
Guess which route the majority AND sensible REAL SUPPORTERS have taken?
ps. Rovers FC, loving the hate, keep going it only serves hurts you ;)[/p][/quote]There you going again. "Get behind the team", "haters" etc.You are doing exactly what i accuse you of in my post. Why would you chose to expose yourself like that?
And again, you conflate my disdain and knowledge of what has happened to BRFC with irrational emotionality. Your sleight-of-hand does not fool me and the more discerningly intelligent readers will see through your rhetoric.
Also, don't confuse my hatred of people such as yourself and your Geobellian propaganda which seeks to promote the fan blame fallacy with a hatred of the Venkys, (implying racism, sexism and lack of analysis).
"Hate" is a very strong word and I'm not sure i actually "hate" anyone. I dislike people and often "hate" things such as cruelty to animals (i am a vegetarian) drunkenness (i am tee-total) and racism (i have marched against the EDL).
The only people who used the word "hate" are people like you who don't engage with ideas but choose to smear people instead - with the very thing you are full of.
Hope this helps.
Yours fraternally :)Rovers F.C.

But to your point about Venkys appointing Anderson because they were GREEDY.

GREEDY for what exactly? Naive, stupid, another indian company taken for a ride by shysters maybe but I fail to see what they themselves were going to get out of it, seeing that we can now put the &quot;asset stripping" accusations which were thrown about in the keanite days.

Last season they stayed in the background, supported Bowyer in the transfer window, kept hold of our best assets and now an apology of sorts. A long way to go yet but most people would have taken that two years ago.

The reason the suspected "Venkys plants"/apologists - or more realistically thw MAJORITY of fans on here get annoyed by the neggies is their persistant need to keep on raking up the past every time Venkys open their mouth or a poster is looking forward and trying to look for some positives - of which on the field at least there were many.

It just seems some posters are afraid people will forget or have forgiven Venkys just because things are starting to look brighter now that we have a decent and honest manager in Gary Bowyer.

That's the conspiracy loving haters problem.

Classic. Accuse people of being "conspiracy theorists". You, like the others who have responded are doing EXACTLY what i accuse you of in my post.

The conspiracy theorist jibe is one that politicians use too in order to discredit any analysis they disagree with without actually having to engage with and answer to the apposing view.

I wish I'd mentioned that one in my post because i do remember it being used quite a lot in order to defend Kean and smear the fans the season he took us down.

I can't quite believe what I'm reading.

[quote][p][bold]roverstid[/bold] wrote:
Sorry JC wrong post quoted.
But to your point about Venkys appointing Anderson because they were GREEDY.
GREEDY for what exactly? Naive, stupid, another indian company taken for a ride by shysters maybe but I fail to see what they themselves were going to get out of it, seeing that we can now put the "asset stripping" accusations which were thrown about in the keanite days.
Venkys mistakes were sacking BFS, appointing Kean, sticking with Kean, introducing Shabby, listening to Shabby. That was pre-Bowyer.
Last season they stayed in the background, supported Bowyer in the transfer window, kept hold of our best assets and now an apology of sorts. A long way to go yet but most people would have taken that two years ago.
The reason the suspected "Venkys plants"/apologists - or more realistically thw MAJORITY of fans on here get annoyed by the neggies is their persistant need to keep on raking up the past every time Venkys open their mouth or a poster is looking forward and trying to look for some positives - of which on the field at least there were many.
It just seems some posters are afraid people will forget or have forgiven Venkys just because things are starting to look brighter now that we have a decent and honest manager in Gary Bowyer.
That's the conspiracy loving haters problem.[/p][/quote]Classic. Accuse people of being "conspiracy theorists". You, like the others who have responded are doing EXACTLY what i accuse you of in my post.
The conspiracy theorist jibe is one that politicians use too in order to discredit any analysis they disagree with without actually having to engage with and answer to the apposing view.
I wish I'd mentioned that one in my post because i do remember it being used quite a lot in order to defend Kean and smear the fans the season he took us down.
I can't quite believe what I'm reading.Rovers F.C.

Another odd ball post. What makes you think i don't attend matches? The problem with self appointed oracle's of virtue lime you - and this happens every time - is that you conflate opposition to the Venkys with wanting the team to lose. I attend when i can and any one who has ever met me - and there are at least two people who used to be regular contributors to these pages that have - have no doubt of my passion for BRFC.

You sir, are an ****."

This coming from the one who wrote a fiction essay accusing attendees of being extremists, apologists etc. etc.

I'll tell you exactly what you are keyboard warrior, you're a pretender to the throne annoyed at anyone who doesn't share your views or your not so secret fanciful fan ownership agenda.

I won't bore you with the details like you did us, but you sir, are as see through as a birthday suit.

Probably the same enlightened foreigner hating bile spewer I used to have the misfortune of having to ignore in my local.

Another odd ball post. What makes you think i don't attend matches? The problem with self appointed oracle's of virtue lime you - and this happens every time - is that you conflate opposition to the Venkys with wanting the team to lose. I attend when i can and any one who has ever met me - and there are at least two people who used to be regular contributors to these pages that have - have no doubt of my passion for BRFC.
You sir, are an ****."
This coming from the one who wrote a fiction essay accusing attendees of being extremists, apologists etc. etc.
I'll tell you exactly what you are keyboard warrior, you're a pretender to the throne annoyed at anyone who doesn't share your views or your not so secret fanciful fan ownership agenda.
I won't bore you with the details like you did us, but you sir, are as see through as a birthday suit.
Probably the same enlightened foreigner hating bile spewer I used to have the misfortune of having to ignore in my local.roverstid

But to your point about Venkys appointing Anderson because they were GREEDY.

GREEDY for what exactly? Naive, stupid, another indian company taken for a ride by shysters maybe but I fail to see what they themselves were going to get out of it, seeing that we can now put the &quot;asset stripping" accusations which were thrown about in the keanite days.

Last season they stayed in the background, supported Bowyer in the transfer window, kept hold of our best assets and now an apology of sorts. A long way to go yet but most people would have taken that two years ago.

The reason the suspected "Venkys plants"/apologists - or more realistically thw MAJORITY of fans on here get annoyed by the neggies is their persistant need to keep on raking up the past every time Venkys open their mouth or a poster is looking forward and trying to look for some positives - of which on the field at least there were many.

It just seems some posters are afraid people will forget or have forgiven Venkys just because things are starting to look brighter now that we have a decent and honest manager in Gary Bowyer.

That's the conspiracy loving haters problem.

Classic. Accuse people of being "conspiracy theorists". You, like the others who have responded are doing EXACTLY what i accuse you of in my post.

The conspiracy theorist jibe is one that politicians use too in order to discredit any analysis they disagree with without actually having to engage with and answer to the apposing view.

I wish I'd mentioned that one in my post because i do remember it being used quite a lot in order to defend Kean and smear the fans the season he took us down.

I can't quite believe what I'm reading.

Agreed. When someone uses a phrase like conspiracy theory , I try to look to the possible functionality. In the strange case of Steve Kean, it was used to pathologise and dismiss honest supporters with valid worries and concerns.
The questions remain, though,:what are our desired outcomes now and what behaviours are required from ourselves, as supporters, to help deliver these outcomes?

[quote][p][bold]Rovers F.C.[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]roverstid[/bold] wrote:
Sorry JC wrong post quoted.
But to your point about Venkys appointing Anderson because they were GREEDY.
GREEDY for what exactly? Naive, stupid, another indian company taken for a ride by shysters maybe but I fail to see what they themselves were going to get out of it, seeing that we can now put the "asset stripping" accusations which were thrown about in the keanite days.
Venkys mistakes were sacking BFS, appointing Kean, sticking with Kean, introducing Shabby, listening to Shabby. That was pre-Bowyer.
Last season they stayed in the background, supported Bowyer in the transfer window, kept hold of our best assets and now an apology of sorts. A long way to go yet but most people would have taken that two years ago.
The reason the suspected "Venkys plants"/apologists - or more realistically thw MAJORITY of fans on here get annoyed by the neggies is their persistant need to keep on raking up the past every time Venkys open their mouth or a poster is looking forward and trying to look for some positives - of which on the field at least there were many.
It just seems some posters are afraid people will forget or have forgiven Venkys just because things are starting to look brighter now that we have a decent and honest manager in Gary Bowyer.
That's the conspiracy loving haters problem.[/p][/quote]Classic. Accuse people of being "conspiracy theorists". You, like the others who have responded are doing EXACTLY what i accuse you of in my post.
The conspiracy theorist jibe is one that politicians use too in order to discredit any analysis they disagree with without actually having to engage with and answer to the apposing view.
I wish I'd mentioned that one in my post because i do remember it being used quite a lot in order to defend Kean and smear the fans the season he took us down.
I can't quite believe what I'm reading.[/p][/quote]Agreed. When someone uses a phrase like conspiracy theory , I try to look to the possible functionality. In the strange case of Steve Kean, it was used to pathologise and dismiss honest supporters with valid worries and concerns.
The questions remain, though,:what are our desired outcomes now and what behaviours are required from ourselves, as supporters, to help deliver these outcomes?Leonard Venkhater

greenscreener wrote:
Open response to Rovers F.C. Whoever you are and whatever your motives may be...

Sir, as you have decided to call me out on this in public I will reply, because you are attributing views and opinions to me that I do not hold.

If you actually go through the archives and read my words I have been consistently critical of Venkys, Anderson and Kean ever since they arrived. I have never blamed Rovers fans for any of the woes you describe and I have supported Gary Bowyer because he is repairing the club from the inside.

The fact is I am consistent, in my support for Rovers and my utter disdain for those, like yourself, who appear to want to create nothing but chaos and division.

If I am extreme about anything it is my passion for a club I have followed since the 70s and my defence of free speech, even for those, like yourself, who clearly think a gross generalisation will do when you have no actual facts on which to base your tirade.

RTID

Open invitation to Rovers FC.....

Feel free to either share your evidence or apologise, it would be a pity for you to have written all those words but be left looking like a troll without a shred of integrity.

You could choose to hide in shame, or resort to some childish insult, But I'm hoping you are bigger than that.

[quote][p][bold]greenscreener[/bold] wrote:
Open response to Rovers F.C. Whoever you are and whatever your motives may be...
Sir, as you have decided to call me out on this in public I will reply, because you are attributing views and opinions to me that I do not hold.
If you actually go through the archives and read my words I have been consistently critical of Venkys, Anderson and Kean ever since they arrived. I have never blamed Rovers fans for any of the woes you describe and I have supported Gary Bowyer because he is repairing the club from the inside.
The fact is I am consistent, in my support for Rovers and my utter disdain for those, like yourself, who appear to want to create nothing but chaos and division.
If I am extreme about anything it is my passion for a club I have followed since the 70s and my defence of free speech, even for those, like yourself, who clearly think a gross generalisation will do when you have no actual facts on which to base your tirade.
RTID[/p][/quote]Open invitation to Rovers FC.....
Feel free to either share your evidence or apologise, it would be a pity for you to have written all those words but be left looking like a troll without a shred of integrity.
You could choose to hide in shame, or resort to some childish insult, But I'm hoping you are bigger than that.greenscreener

roverstid wrote:
Another odd ball post. What makes you think i don't attend matches? The problem with self appointed oracle's of virtue lime you - and this happens every time - is that you conflate opposition to the Venkys with wanting the team to lose. I attend when i can and any one who has ever met me - and there are at least two people who used to be regular contributors to these pages that have - have no doubt of my passion for BRFC.

You sir, are an ****.&quot;

This coming from the one who wrote a fiction essay accusing attendees of being extremists, apologists etc. etc.

I'll tell you exactly what you are keyboard warrior, you're a pretender to the throne annoyed at anyone who doesn't share your views or your not so secret fanciful fan ownership agenda.

I won't bore you with the details like you did us, but you sir, are as see through as a birthday suit.

Probably the same enlightened foreigner hating bile spewer I used to have the misfortune of having to ignore in my local.

Hmmm... anger and... well... hatred was what i sensed from that post.

Pressed the "send" button a little too early their, didn't you?

Scroll up. I don't drink and have been actively involved in anti-racist campaigning and have spent many hours in police custody as a result so i doubt you'll have ever met me down your local boozer spewing hate or anything else for that matter.

So, how does it feel to be doing EXACTLY all the things i accuse the likes of you as doing in my first post?

I wondered how long it would take before i as accused of racism. It's a good one that because you aren't interested in whether there is any evidence to back up such a slur, just in how much damage it will do; tunneling under and thieving the high moral ground.

You use a serious word like that and hollow it out until it's meaningless by using it like s dum-dum bullet in order to cause maximum damage and shut down discussion.

What a hateful thing to do.

[quote][p][bold]roverstid[/bold] wrote:
Another odd ball post. What makes you think i don't attend matches? The problem with self appointed oracle's of virtue lime you - and this happens every time - is that you conflate opposition to the Venkys with wanting the team to lose. I attend when i can and any one who has ever met me - and there are at least two people who used to be regular contributors to these pages that have - have no doubt of my passion for BRFC.
You sir, are an ****."
This coming from the one who wrote a fiction essay accusing attendees of being extremists, apologists etc. etc.
I'll tell you exactly what you are keyboard warrior, you're a pretender to the throne annoyed at anyone who doesn't share your views or your not so secret fanciful fan ownership agenda.
I won't bore you with the details like you did us, but you sir, are as see through as a birthday suit.
Probably the same enlightened foreigner hating bile spewer I used to have the misfortune of having to ignore in my local.[/p][/quote]Hmmm... anger and... well... hatred was what i sensed from that post.
Pressed the "send" button a little too early their, didn't you?
Scroll up. I don't drink and have been actively involved in anti-racist campaigning and have spent many hours in police custody as a result so i doubt you'll have ever met me down your local boozer spewing hate or anything else for that matter.
So, how does it feel to be doing EXACTLY all the things i accuse the likes of you as doing in my first post?
I wondered how long it would take before i as accused of racism. It's a good one that because you aren't interested in whether there is any evidence to back up such a slur, just in how much damage it will do; tunneling under and thieving the high moral ground.
You use a serious word like that and hollow it out until it's meaningless by using it like s dum-dum bullet in order to cause maximum damage and shut down discussion.
What a hateful thing to do.Rovers F.C.

But to your point about Venkys appointing Anderson because they were GREEDY.

GREEDY for what exactly? Naive, stupid, another indian company taken for a ride by shysters maybe but I fail to see what they themselves were going to get out of it, seeing that we can now put the &quot;asset stripping" accusations which were thrown about in the keanite days.

Last season they stayed in the background, supported Bowyer in the transfer window, kept hold of our best assets and now an apology of sorts. A long way to go yet but most people would have taken that two years ago.

The reason the suspected "Venkys plants"/apologists - or more realistically thw MAJORITY of fans on here get annoyed by the neggies is their persistant need to keep on raking up the past every time Venkys open their mouth or a poster is looking forward and trying to look for some positives - of which on the field at least there were many.

It just seems some posters are afraid people will forget or have forgiven Venkys just because things are starting to look brighter now that we have a decent and honest manager in Gary Bowyer.

That's the conspiracy loving haters problem.

Classic. Accuse people of being "conspiracy theorists". You, like the others who have responded are doing EXACTLY what i accuse you of in my post.

The conspiracy theorist jibe is one that politicians use too in order to discredit any analysis they disagree with without actually having to engage with and answer to the apposing view.

I wish I'd mentioned that one in my post because i do remember it being used quite a lot in order to defend Kean and smear the fans the season he took us down.

I can't quite believe what I'm reading.

Why are you replying for J C Rishton?

;)

[quote][p][bold]Rovers F.C.[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]roverstid[/bold] wrote:
Sorry JC wrong post quoted.
But to your point about Venkys appointing Anderson because they were GREEDY.
GREEDY for what exactly? Naive, stupid, another indian company taken for a ride by shysters maybe but I fail to see what they themselves were going to get out of it, seeing that we can now put the "asset stripping" accusations which were thrown about in the keanite days.
Venkys mistakes were sacking BFS, appointing Kean, sticking with Kean, introducing Shabby, listening to Shabby. That was pre-Bowyer.
Last season they stayed in the background, supported Bowyer in the transfer window, kept hold of our best assets and now an apology of sorts. A long way to go yet but most people would have taken that two years ago.
The reason the suspected "Venkys plants"/apologists - or more realistically thw MAJORITY of fans on here get annoyed by the neggies is their persistant need to keep on raking up the past every time Venkys open their mouth or a poster is looking forward and trying to look for some positives - of which on the field at least there were many.
It just seems some posters are afraid people will forget or have forgiven Venkys just because things are starting to look brighter now that we have a decent and honest manager in Gary Bowyer.
That's the conspiracy loving haters problem.[/p][/quote]Classic. Accuse people of being "conspiracy theorists". You, like the others who have responded are doing EXACTLY what i accuse you of in my post.
The conspiracy theorist jibe is one that politicians use too in order to discredit any analysis they disagree with without actually having to engage with and answer to the apposing view.
I wish I'd mentioned that one in my post because i do remember it being used quite a lot in order to defend Kean and smear the fans the season he took us down.
I can't quite believe what I'm reading.[/p][/quote]Why are you replying for J C Rishton?
;)roverstid

roverstid wrote:
Another odd ball post. What makes you think i don't attend matches? The problem with self appointed oracle's of virtue lime you - and this happens every time - is that you conflate opposition to the Venkys with wanting the team to lose. I attend when i can and any one who has ever met me - and there are at least two people who used to be regular contributors to these pages that have - have no doubt of my passion for BRFC.

You sir, are an ****.&quot;

This coming from the one who wrote a fiction essay accusing attendees of being extremists, apologists etc. etc.

I'll tell you exactly what you are keyboard warrior, you're a pretender to the throne annoyed at anyone who doesn't share your views or your not so secret fanciful fan ownership agenda.

I won't bore you with the details like you did us, but you sir, are as see through as a birthday suit.

Probably the same enlightened foreigner hating bile spewer I used to have the misfortune of having to ignore in my local.

Hmmm... anger and... well... hatred was what i sensed from that post.

Pressed the "send" button a little too early their, didn't you?

Scroll up. I don't drink and have been actively involved in anti-racist campaigning and have spent many hours in police custody as a result so i doubt you'll have ever met me down your local boozer spewing hate or anything else for that matter.

So, how does it feel to be doing EXACTLY all the things i accuse the likes of you as doing in my first post?

I wondered how long it would take before i as accused of racism. It's a good one that because you aren't interested in whether there is any evidence to back up such a slur, just in how much damage it will do; tunneling under and thieving the high moral ground.

You use a serious word like that and hollow it out until it's meaningless by using it like s dum-dum bullet in order to cause maximum damage and shut down discussion.

What a hateful thing to do.

I would have also accepted "Some of my neighbours are indian"

And maybe "I love curry"

Do ya smellthecoffee?

[quote][p][bold]Rovers F.C.[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]roverstid[/bold] wrote:
Another odd ball post. What makes you think i don't attend matches? The problem with self appointed oracle's of virtue lime you - and this happens every time - is that you conflate opposition to the Venkys with wanting the team to lose. I attend when i can and any one who has ever met me - and there are at least two people who used to be regular contributors to these pages that have - have no doubt of my passion for BRFC.
You sir, are an ****."
This coming from the one who wrote a fiction essay accusing attendees of being extremists, apologists etc. etc.
I'll tell you exactly what you are keyboard warrior, you're a pretender to the throne annoyed at anyone who doesn't share your views or your not so secret fanciful fan ownership agenda.
I won't bore you with the details like you did us, but you sir, are as see through as a birthday suit.
Probably the same enlightened foreigner hating bile spewer I used to have the misfortune of having to ignore in my local.[/p][/quote]Hmmm... anger and... well... hatred was what i sensed from that post.
Pressed the "send" button a little too early their, didn't you?
Scroll up. I don't drink and have been actively involved in anti-racist campaigning and have spent many hours in police custody as a result so i doubt you'll have ever met me down your local boozer spewing hate or anything else for that matter.
So, how does it feel to be doing EXACTLY all the things i accuse the likes of you as doing in my first post?
I wondered how long it would take before i as accused of racism. It's a good one that because you aren't interested in whether there is any evidence to back up such a slur, just in how much damage it will do; tunneling under and thieving the high moral ground.
You use a serious word like that and hollow it out until it's meaningless by using it like s dum-dum bullet in order to cause maximum damage and shut down discussion.
What a hateful thing to do.[/p][/quote]I would have also accepted "Some of my neighbours are indian"
And maybe "I love curry"
Do ya smellthecoffee?roverstid

roverstid wrote:
Another odd ball post. What makes you think i don't attend matches? The problem with self appointed oracle's of virtue lime you - and this happens every time - is that you conflate opposition to the Venkys with wanting the team to lose. I attend when i can and any one who has ever met me - and there are at least two people who used to be regular contributors to these pages that have - have no doubt of my passion for BRFC.

You sir, are an ****.&quot;

This coming from the one who wrote a fiction essay accusing attendees of being extremists, apologists etc. etc.

I'll tell you exactly what you are keyboard warrior, you're a pretender to the throne annoyed at anyone who doesn't share your views or your not so secret fanciful fan ownership agenda.

I won't bore you with the details like you did us, but you sir, are as see through as a birthday suit.

Probably the same enlightened foreigner hating bile spewer I used to have the misfortune of having to ignore in my local.

Hmmm... anger and... well... hatred was what i sensed from that post.

Pressed the "send" button a little too early their, didn't you?

Scroll up. I don't drink and have been actively involved in anti-racist campaigning and have spent many hours in police custody as a result so i doubt you'll have ever met me down your local boozer spewing hate or anything else for that matter.

So, how does it feel to be doing EXACTLY all the things i accuse the likes of you as doing in my first post?

I wondered how long it would take before i as accused of racism. It's a good one that because you aren't interested in whether there is any evidence to back up such a slur, just in how much damage it will do; tunneling under and thieving the high moral ground.

You use a serious word like that and hollow it out until it's meaningless by using it like s dum-dum bullet in order to cause maximum damage and shut down discussion.

What a hateful thing to do.

I would have also accepted "Some of my neighbours are indian"

And maybe "I love curry"

Do ya smellthecoffee?

Such atrocious bluster. You can't hide behind bravado. The more discerning of us can see what you are doing.

[quote][p][bold]roverstid[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Rovers F.C.[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]roverstid[/bold] wrote:
Another odd ball post. What makes you think i don't attend matches? The problem with self appointed oracle's of virtue lime you - and this happens every time - is that you conflate opposition to the Venkys with wanting the team to lose. I attend when i can and any one who has ever met me - and there are at least two people who used to be regular contributors to these pages that have - have no doubt of my passion for BRFC.
You sir, are an ****."
This coming from the one who wrote a fiction essay accusing attendees of being extremists, apologists etc. etc.
I'll tell you exactly what you are keyboard warrior, you're a pretender to the throne annoyed at anyone who doesn't share your views or your not so secret fanciful fan ownership agenda.
I won't bore you with the details like you did us, but you sir, are as see through as a birthday suit.
Probably the same enlightened foreigner hating bile spewer I used to have the misfortune of having to ignore in my local.[/p][/quote]Hmmm... anger and... well... hatred was what i sensed from that post.
Pressed the "send" button a little too early their, didn't you?
Scroll up. I don't drink and have been actively involved in anti-racist campaigning and have spent many hours in police custody as a result so i doubt you'll have ever met me down your local boozer spewing hate or anything else for that matter.
So, how does it feel to be doing EXACTLY all the things i accuse the likes of you as doing in my first post?
I wondered how long it would take before i as accused of racism. It's a good one that because you aren't interested in whether there is any evidence to back up such a slur, just in how much damage it will do; tunneling under and thieving the high moral ground.
You use a serious word like that and hollow it out until it's meaningless by using it like s dum-dum bullet in order to cause maximum damage and shut down discussion.
What a hateful thing to do.[/p][/quote]I would have also accepted "Some of my neighbours are indian"
And maybe "I love curry"
Do ya smellthecoffee?[/p][/quote]Such atrocious bluster. You can't hide behind bravado. The more discerning of us can see what you are doing.Rovers F.C.

bluenwhite wrote:
Right we should have a long list of apologies on here from all you so called &quot;fans" who reckoned the apology letter from Venkys was because they were going to put prices up, like you have said every year since they took over!!!
Over the last year they have done well, keeping quiet, still putting in money and now still subsidising ticket prices.
So stop your F@@king moaning and try supporting the team for a change, you never know we might win a few then!!!

Well said. Venky's biggest mistake was buying into a business in which they knew nothing about and then to compound it by allowing so called knowledgeable people to advise and run the business. Those knowledgeable(parasi

tes) people then took it upon themselves to shaft the club to the tune of millions of pounds,remove Allardyce and appoint their own man in Kean who carried on their good work. Just to make matters worst,in stepped Shabby who just had as much idea of managing the affairs of Rovers as would Donald Duck. Having woke up to what was happening to the club,Kean and Shabby both out of the way and two bad managerial appointments later GB was given the job and a year later stability returned to the club. No Rovers fan will forget what Venky's have done to the club,but last season seemed to have been a turning point in what was needed to run this club.They seem to have got a grasp of having the right people in place to take the club forward. We wait to see how they deal with FFP and what sort of budget they have given GB.We can't change the past, we might not like Venky's but we need Venky's at this moment,and if that means being a happy clapper or whatever you want to call like minded fans,so be it,but I will support the team whoever owns this great club.

I'm sorry earwego but you are doing EXACTLY what that guy with the "war and peace" first post accuses some Rovers fans of doing - you are re-writing history to fit nicely into how you see things now (re - Venkys) NOT accepting what actually happened.

You paint Venkys at the point of the takeover as bumbling know nothing buffoons but this is NOT the case.

At this point they (the Venky family) had bought out over 50 businessess, many of them overseas from India and in business'es which they had never operated.

They were EXPERIENCED takeover business people.

They would have known that the first thing you do when operating overseas in a country you do not know and in a business you do not know is to employ the best LAWYERS and ACCOUNTANTS you can do, then you get the best people in on the ground to do the day to day running of the business - they had THE best CEO in the business and instead of staying with him until they had found their feet they rushed into change and went with a chancer - anyone who takes 2 minutes to google Jerome Anderson can clearly see that he was a sports agent with a dodgey reputation, he was not a football club CEO and therefore was not qualified to run BRFC and Venkys must have known they were taking a huge gamble when they did so.

Venkys appointed JA because they were GREEDY - he spun them a yarn about it beeing easy to get great young talent (eg Goodwillie) start their careers and then sell them at a big fat profit and to do this over and over again (like if it was so easy why didnt EVERY club do it and make huge profits??)

You then said "Shebby Singh materialised" - like he was zapped down from outer space - NO !! he was not.

By this point Venkys had been in charge of BRFC for 2 years and THEY appointed SS, it was their CHOICE to do so - the debarkle of the 2012-2013 season was all down to the VENKYS not Shebby Singh - why, because they CHOSE to employ him (can you image a single other of the 91 football league clubs employing that cretin as anything other than a halftime mascot?).

You may be right that we should be practical and accept Venkys because at the moment (due to their GROSS mismanagement) of the club, we are stuck with them and financially reliant on them - that is fine but please DO NOT absolve them of blame in years gone by just to make things better in your own mind - this is the history of our great club and the story needs to be remembered CORRECTLY, not massaged and changed.

Is this fact or your opinion? "Shebby Singh materialised" where did you get that from? do you have answers ready before you read comments? Listen I have my point of view,you have yours, if you want people to respect your views,then respect theirs whether you like it or not. so cut out the "pratt"

Hi earwego - I didnt call you a pratt. I don't know if you are getting my post confused with someone elses.

Also, it is a FACT that Shebby Singh was appointed by the Venky family (who do you think appointed that moron?).

[quote][p][bold]earwego[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]J.C - Rishton[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]earwego[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]bluenwhite[/bold] wrote:
Right we should have a long list of apologies on here from all you so called "fans" who reckoned the apology letter from Venkys was because they were going to put prices up, like you have said every year since they took over!!!
Over the last year they have done well, keeping quiet, still putting in money and now still subsidising ticket prices.
So stop your F@@king moaning and try supporting the team for a change, you never know we might win a few then!!![/p][/quote]Well said. Venky's biggest mistake was buying into a business in which they knew nothing about and then to compound it by allowing so called knowledgeable people to advise and run the business. Those knowledgeable(parasi
tes) people then took it upon themselves to shaft the club to the tune of millions of pounds,remove Allardyce and appoint their own man in Kean who carried on their good work. Just to make matters worst,in stepped Shabby who just had as much idea of managing the affairs of Rovers as would Donald Duck. Having woke up to what was happening to the club,Kean and Shabby both out of the way and two bad managerial appointments later GB was given the job and a year later stability returned to the club. No Rovers fan will forget what Venky's have done to the club,but last season seemed to have been a turning point in what was needed to run this club.They seem to have got a grasp of having the right people in place to take the club forward. We wait to see how they deal with FFP and what sort of budget they have given GB.We can't change the past, we might not like Venky's but we need Venky's at this moment,and if that means being a happy clapper or whatever you want to call like minded fans,so be it,but I will support the team whoever owns this great club.[/p][/quote]I'm sorry earwego but you are doing EXACTLY what that guy with the "war and peace" first post accuses some Rovers fans of doing - you are re-writing history to fit nicely into how you see things now (re - Venkys) NOT accepting what actually happened.
You paint Venkys at the point of the takeover as bumbling know nothing buffoons but this is NOT the case.
At this point they (the Venky family) had bought out over 50 businessess, many of them overseas from India and in business'es which they had never operated.
They were EXPERIENCED takeover business people.
They would have known that the first thing you do when operating overseas in a country you do not know and in a business you do not know is to employ the best LAWYERS and ACCOUNTANTS you can do, then you get the best people in on the ground to do the day to day running of the business - they had THE best CEO in the business and instead of staying with him until they had found their feet they rushed into change and went with a chancer - anyone who takes 2 minutes to google Jerome Anderson can clearly see that he was a sports agent with a dodgey reputation, he was not a football club CEO and therefore was not qualified to run BRFC and Venkys must have known they were taking a huge gamble when they did so.
Venkys appointed JA because they were GREEDY - he spun them a yarn about it beeing easy to get great young talent (eg Goodwillie) start their careers and then sell them at a big fat profit and to do this over and over again (like if it was so easy why didnt EVERY club do it and make huge profits??)
You then said "Shebby Singh materialised" - like he was zapped down from outer space - NO !! he was not.
By this point Venkys had been in charge of BRFC for 2 years and THEY appointed SS, it was their CHOICE to do so - the debarkle of the 2012-2013 season was all down to the VENKYS not Shebby Singh - why, because they CHOSE to employ him (can you image a single other of the 91 football league clubs employing that cretin as anything other than a halftime mascot?).
You may be right that we should be practical and accept Venkys because at the moment (due to their GROSS mismanagement) of the club, we are stuck with them and financially reliant on them - that is fine but please DO NOT absolve them of blame in years gone by just to make things better in your own mind - this is the history of our great club and the story needs to be remembered CORRECTLY, not massaged and changed.[/p][/quote]Is this fact or your opinion? "Shebby Singh materialised" where did you get that from? do you have answers ready before you read comments? Listen I have my point of view,you have yours, if you want people to respect your views,then respect theirs whether you like it or not. so cut out the "pratt"[/p][/quote]Hi earwego - I didnt call you a pratt. I don't know if you are getting my post confused with someone elses.
Also, it is a FACT that Shebby Singh was appointed by the Venky family (who do you think appointed that moron?).J.C - Rishton

But to your point about Venkys appointing Anderson because they were GREEDY.

GREEDY for what exactly? Naive, stupid, another indian company taken for a ride by shysters maybe but I fail to see what they themselves were going to get out of it, seeing that we can now put the &quot;asset stripping" accusations which were thrown about in the keanite days.

Last season they stayed in the background, supported Bowyer in the transfer window, kept hold of our best assets and now an apology of sorts. A long way to go yet but most people would have taken that two years ago.

The reason the suspected "Venkys plants"/apologists - or more realistically thw MAJORITY of fans on here get annoyed by the neggies is their persistant need to keep on raking up the past every time Venkys open their mouth or a poster is looking forward and trying to look for some positives - of which on the field at least there were many.

It just seems some posters are afraid people will forget or have forgiven Venkys just because things are starting to look brighter now that we have a decent and honest manager in Gary Bowyer.

That's the conspiracy loving haters problem.

Classic. Accuse people of being "conspiracy theorists". You, like the others who have responded are doing EXACTLY what i accuse you of in my post.

The conspiracy theorist jibe is one that politicians use too in order to discredit any analysis they disagree with without actually having to engage with and answer to the apposing view.

I wish I'd mentioned that one in my post because i do remember it being used quite a lot in order to defend Kean and smear the fans the season he took us down.

I can't quite believe what I'm reading.

Agreed. When someone uses a phrase like conspiracy theory , I try to look to the possible functionality. In the strange case of Steve Kean, it was used to pathologise and dismiss honest supporters with valid worries and concerns.
The questions remain, though,:what are our desired outcomes now and what behaviours are required from ourselves, as supporters, to help deliver these outcomes?

Absolutely. The Venkys Apologists use slurs like "racism" too for precisely the same reason...they've been doing EXACTLY what i accuse them of in my first post. Quite remarkable, really.

[quote][p][bold]Leonard Venkhater[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Rovers F.C.[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]roverstid[/bold] wrote:
Sorry JC wrong post quoted.
But to your point about Venkys appointing Anderson because they were GREEDY.
GREEDY for what exactly? Naive, stupid, another indian company taken for a ride by shysters maybe but I fail to see what they themselves were going to get out of it, seeing that we can now put the "asset stripping" accusations which were thrown about in the keanite days.
Venkys mistakes were sacking BFS, appointing Kean, sticking with Kean, introducing Shabby, listening to Shabby. That was pre-Bowyer.
Last season they stayed in the background, supported Bowyer in the transfer window, kept hold of our best assets and now an apology of sorts. A long way to go yet but most people would have taken that two years ago.
The reason the suspected "Venkys plants"/apologists - or more realistically thw MAJORITY of fans on here get annoyed by the neggies is their persistant need to keep on raking up the past every time Venkys open their mouth or a poster is looking forward and trying to look for some positives - of which on the field at least there were many.
It just seems some posters are afraid people will forget or have forgiven Venkys just because things are starting to look brighter now that we have a decent and honest manager in Gary Bowyer.
That's the conspiracy loving haters problem.[/p][/quote]Classic. Accuse people of being "conspiracy theorists". You, like the others who have responded are doing EXACTLY what i accuse you of in my post.
The conspiracy theorist jibe is one that politicians use too in order to discredit any analysis they disagree with without actually having to engage with and answer to the apposing view.
I wish I'd mentioned that one in my post because i do remember it being used quite a lot in order to defend Kean and smear the fans the season he took us down.
I can't quite believe what I'm reading.[/p][/quote]Agreed. When someone uses a phrase like conspiracy theory , I try to look to the possible functionality. In the strange case of Steve Kean, it was used to pathologise and dismiss honest supporters with valid worries and concerns.
The questions remain, though,:what are our desired outcomes now and what behaviours are required from ourselves, as supporters, to help deliver these outcomes?[/p][/quote]Absolutely. The Venkys Apologists use slurs like "racism" too for precisely the same reason...they've been doing EXACTLY what i accuse them of in my first post. Quite remarkable, really.Rovers F.C.

roverstid wrote:
Another odd ball post. What makes you think i don't attend matches? The problem with self appointed oracle's of virtue lime you - and this happens every time - is that you conflate opposition to the Venkys with wanting the team to lose. I attend when i can and any one who has ever met me - and there are at least two people who used to be regular contributors to these pages that have - have no doubt of my passion for BRFC.

You sir, are an ****.&quot;

This coming from the one who wrote a fiction essay accusing attendees of being extremists, apologists etc. etc.

I'll tell you exactly what you are keyboard warrior, you're a pretender to the throne annoyed at anyone who doesn't share your views or your not so secret fanciful fan ownership agenda.

I won't bore you with the details like you did us, but you sir, are as see through as a birthday suit.

Probably the same enlightened foreigner hating bile spewer I used to have the misfortune of having to ignore in my local.

Hmmm... anger and... well... hatred was what i sensed from that post.

Pressed the "send" button a little too early their, didn't you?

Scroll up. I don't drink and have been actively involved in anti-racist campaigning and have spent many hours in police custody as a result so i doubt you'll have ever met me down your local boozer spewing hate or anything else for that matter.

So, how does it feel to be doing EXACTLY all the things i accuse the likes of you as doing in my first post?

I wondered how long it would take before i as accused of racism. It's a good one that because you aren't interested in whether there is any evidence to back up such a slur, just in how much damage it will do; tunneling under and thieving the high moral ground.

You use a serious word like that and hollow it out until it's meaningless by using it like s dum-dum bullet in order to cause maximum damage and shut down discussion.

What a hateful thing to do.

I would have also accepted "Some of my neighbours are indian"

And maybe "I love curry"

Do ya smellthecoffee?

Such atrocious bluster. You can't hide behind bravado. The more discerning of us can see what you are doing.

I would hope so. Its called enjoying winding up.

"Discerning"? BAHAHAHA!

Don't you mean tinfoil wearing?

Watch out! The sky is falling! (And its all Venkys fault)

You didn't answer my question: why were you replying to my question to J C Rishton?

Take your time.. I understand it takes time to change usernames.

BAHAHAHAHA!

[quote][p][bold]Rovers F.C.[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]roverstid[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Rovers F.C.[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]roverstid[/bold] wrote:
Another odd ball post. What makes you think i don't attend matches? The problem with self appointed oracle's of virtue lime you - and this happens every time - is that you conflate opposition to the Venkys with wanting the team to lose. I attend when i can and any one who has ever met me - and there are at least two people who used to be regular contributors to these pages that have - have no doubt of my passion for BRFC.
You sir, are an ****."
This coming from the one who wrote a fiction essay accusing attendees of being extremists, apologists etc. etc.
I'll tell you exactly what you are keyboard warrior, you're a pretender to the throne annoyed at anyone who doesn't share your views or your not so secret fanciful fan ownership agenda.
I won't bore you with the details like you did us, but you sir, are as see through as a birthday suit.
Probably the same enlightened foreigner hating bile spewer I used to have the misfortune of having to ignore in my local.[/p][/quote]Hmmm... anger and... well... hatred was what i sensed from that post.
Pressed the "send" button a little too early their, didn't you?
Scroll up. I don't drink and have been actively involved in anti-racist campaigning and have spent many hours in police custody as a result so i doubt you'll have ever met me down your local boozer spewing hate or anything else for that matter.
So, how does it feel to be doing EXACTLY all the things i accuse the likes of you as doing in my first post?
I wondered how long it would take before i as accused of racism. It's a good one that because you aren't interested in whether there is any evidence to back up such a slur, just in how much damage it will do; tunneling under and thieving the high moral ground.
You use a serious word like that and hollow it out until it's meaningless by using it like s dum-dum bullet in order to cause maximum damage and shut down discussion.
What a hateful thing to do.[/p][/quote]I would have also accepted "Some of my neighbours are indian"
And maybe "I love curry"
Do ya smellthecoffee?[/p][/quote]Such atrocious bluster. You can't hide behind bravado. The more discerning of us can see what you are doing.[/p][/quote]I would hope so. Its called enjoying winding up.
"Discerning"? BAHAHAHA!
Don't you mean tinfoil wearing?
Watch out! The sky is falling! (And its all Venkys fault)
You didn't answer my question: why were you replying to my question to J C Rishton?
Take your time.. I understand it takes time to change usernames.
BAHAHAHAHA!roverstid

bluenwhite wrote:
Right we should have a long list of apologies on here from all you so called &quot;fans" who reckoned the apology letter from Venkys was because they were going to put prices up, like you have said every year since they took over!!!
Over the last year they have done well, keeping quiet, still putting in money and now still subsidising ticket prices.
So stop your F@@king moaning and try supporting the team for a change, you never know we might win a few then!!!

Well said. Venky's biggest mistake was buying into a business in which they knew nothing about and then to compound it by allowing so called knowledgeable people to advise and run the business. Those knowledgeable(parasi

tes) people then took it upon themselves to shaft the club to the tune of millions of pounds,remove Allardyce and appoint their own man in Kean who carried on their good work. Just to make matters worst,in stepped Shabby who just had as much idea of managing the affairs of Rovers as would Donald Duck. Having woke up to what was happening to the club,Kean and Shabby both out of the way and two bad managerial appointments later GB was given the job and a year later stability returned to the club. No Rovers fan will forget what Venky's have done to the club,but last season seemed to have been a turning point in what was needed to run this club.They seem to have got a grasp of having the right people in place to take the club forward. We wait to see how they deal with FFP and what sort of budget they have given GB.We can't change the past, we might not like Venky's but we need Venky's at this moment,and if that means being a happy clapper or whatever you want to call like minded fans,so be it,but I will support the team whoever owns this great club.

I'm sorry earwego but you are doing EXACTLY what that guy with the "war and peace" first post accuses some Rovers fans of doing - you are re-writing history to fit nicely into how you see things now (re - Venkys) NOT accepting what actually happened.

You paint Venkys at the point of the takeover as bumbling know nothing buffoons but this is NOT the case.

At this point they (the Venky family) had bought out over 50 businessess, many of them overseas from India and in business'es which they had never operated.

They were EXPERIENCED takeover business people.

They would have known that the first thing you do when operating overseas in a country you do not know and in a business you do not know is to employ the best LAWYERS and ACCOUNTANTS you can do, then you get the best people in on the ground to do the day to day running of the business - they had THE best CEO in the business and instead of staying with him until they had found their feet they rushed into change and went with a chancer - anyone who takes 2 minutes to google Jerome Anderson can clearly see that he was a sports agent with a dodgey reputation, he was not a football club CEO and therefore was not qualified to run BRFC and Venkys must have known they were taking a huge gamble when they did so.

Venkys appointed JA because they were GREEDY - he spun them a yarn about it beeing easy to get great young talent (eg Goodwillie) start their careers and then sell them at a big fat profit and to do this over and over again (like if it was so easy why didnt EVERY club do it and make huge profits??)

You then said "Shebby Singh materialised" - like he was zapped down from outer space - NO !! he was not.

By this point Venkys had been in charge of BRFC for 2 years and THEY appointed SS, it was their CHOICE to do so - the debarkle of the 2012-2013 season was all down to the VENKYS not Shebby Singh - why, because they CHOSE to employ him (can you image a single other of the 91 football league clubs employing that cretin as anything other than a halftime mascot?).

You may be right that we should be practical and accept Venkys because at the moment (due to their GROSS mismanagement) of the club, we are stuck with them and financially reliant on them - that is fine but please DO NOT absolve them of blame in years gone by just to make things better in your own mind - this is the history of our great club and the story needs to be remembered CORRECTLY, not massaged and changed.

Venkys made mistakes which they are trying to rectify.

No need to forgive and certainly cannot forget. But our choices are get behind the team, enjoy the football and hope for a miracle or stay away and sit at home pouring hate on Venkys every move pretending time can reverse back the Walkers Trust ownership.

Guess which route the majority AND sensible REAL SUPPORTERS have taken?

I'm not saying "hate" Venkys or stay away - infact I say to earwego - "you maybe right that we should be practical and accept Venkys" - what is hateful and anti GB and team sucess there ????

The only point I was trying to make is that we owe it to ourselves and the football club to remember what happened ACCURATELY - not water it down or blame indivduals no longer associated with the club whilst absolving Venkys, just be cause they are still connected to the club and are now having to prop it up financtially.

I am not saying, hate Venkys, boycott the club etc etc (which you seem to be implying).

I think its good that ticket prices are low and that we have a reasonable hope of maybe making the playoffs next season.

[quote][p][bold]roverstid[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]J.C - Rishton[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]earwego[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]bluenwhite[/bold] wrote:
Right we should have a long list of apologies on here from all you so called "fans" who reckoned the apology letter from Venkys was because they were going to put prices up, like you have said every year since they took over!!!
Over the last year they have done well, keeping quiet, still putting in money and now still subsidising ticket prices.
So stop your F@@king moaning and try supporting the team for a change, you never know we might win a few then!!![/p][/quote]Well said. Venky's biggest mistake was buying into a business in which they knew nothing about and then to compound it by allowing so called knowledgeable people to advise and run the business. Those knowledgeable(parasi
tes) people then took it upon themselves to shaft the club to the tune of millions of pounds,remove Allardyce and appoint their own man in Kean who carried on their good work. Just to make matters worst,in stepped Shabby who just had as much idea of managing the affairs of Rovers as would Donald Duck. Having woke up to what was happening to the club,Kean and Shabby both out of the way and two bad managerial appointments later GB was given the job and a year later stability returned to the club. No Rovers fan will forget what Venky's have done to the club,but last season seemed to have been a turning point in what was needed to run this club.They seem to have got a grasp of having the right people in place to take the club forward. We wait to see how they deal with FFP and what sort of budget they have given GB.We can't change the past, we might not like Venky's but we need Venky's at this moment,and if that means being a happy clapper or whatever you want to call like minded fans,so be it,but I will support the team whoever owns this great club.[/p][/quote]I'm sorry earwego but you are doing EXACTLY what that guy with the "war and peace" first post accuses some Rovers fans of doing - you are re-writing history to fit nicely into how you see things now (re - Venkys) NOT accepting what actually happened.
You paint Venkys at the point of the takeover as bumbling know nothing buffoons but this is NOT the case.
At this point they (the Venky family) had bought out over 50 businessess, many of them overseas from India and in business'es which they had never operated.
They were EXPERIENCED takeover business people.
They would have known that the first thing you do when operating overseas in a country you do not know and in a business you do not know is to employ the best LAWYERS and ACCOUNTANTS you can do, then you get the best people in on the ground to do the day to day running of the business - they had THE best CEO in the business and instead of staying with him until they had found their feet they rushed into change and went with a chancer - anyone who takes 2 minutes to google Jerome Anderson can clearly see that he was a sports agent with a dodgey reputation, he was not a football club CEO and therefore was not qualified to run BRFC and Venkys must have known they were taking a huge gamble when they did so.
Venkys appointed JA because they were GREEDY - he spun them a yarn about it beeing easy to get great young talent (eg Goodwillie) start their careers and then sell them at a big fat profit and to do this over and over again (like if it was so easy why didnt EVERY club do it and make huge profits??)
You then said "Shebby Singh materialised" - like he was zapped down from outer space - NO !! he was not.
By this point Venkys had been in charge of BRFC for 2 years and THEY appointed SS, it was their CHOICE to do so - the debarkle of the 2012-2013 season was all down to the VENKYS not Shebby Singh - why, because they CHOSE to employ him (can you image a single other of the 91 football league clubs employing that cretin as anything other than a halftime mascot?).
You may be right that we should be practical and accept Venkys because at the moment (due to their GROSS mismanagement) of the club, we are stuck with them and financially reliant on them - that is fine but please DO NOT absolve them of blame in years gone by just to make things better in your own mind - this is the history of our great club and the story needs to be remembered CORRECTLY, not massaged and changed.[/p][/quote]Venkys made mistakes which they are trying to rectify.
No need to forgive and certainly cannot forget. But our choices are get behind the team, enjoy the football and hope for a miracle or stay away and sit at home pouring hate on Venkys every move pretending time can reverse back the Walkers Trust ownership.
Guess which route the majority AND sensible REAL SUPPORTERS have taken?
ps. Rovers FC, loving the hate, keep going it only serves hurts you ;)[/p][/quote]I'm not saying "hate" Venkys or stay away - infact I say to earwego - "you maybe right that we should be practical and accept Venkys" - what is hateful and anti GB and team sucess there ????
The only point I was trying to make is that we owe it to ourselves and the football club to remember what happened ACCURATELY - not water it down or blame indivduals no longer associated with the club whilst absolving Venkys, just be cause they are still connected to the club and are now having to prop it up financtially.
I am not saying, hate Venkys, boycott the club etc etc (which you seem to be implying).
I think its good that ticket prices are low and that we have a reasonable hope of maybe making the playoffs next season.J.C - Rishton

roverstid wrote:
Another odd ball post. What makes you think i don't attend matches? The problem with self appointed oracle's of virtue lime you - and this happens every time - is that you conflate opposition to the Venkys with wanting the team to lose. I attend when i can and any one who has ever met me - and there are at least two people who used to be regular contributors to these pages that have - have no doubt of my passion for BRFC.

You sir, are an ****.&quot;

This coming from the one who wrote a fiction essay accusing attendees of being extremists, apologists etc. etc.

I'll tell you exactly what you are keyboard warrior, you're a pretender to the throne annoyed at anyone who doesn't share your views or your not so secret fanciful fan ownership agenda.

I won't bore you with the details like you did us, but you sir, are as see through as a birthday suit.

Probably the same enlightened foreigner hating bile spewer I used to have the misfortune of having to ignore in my local.

Hmmm... anger and... well... hatred was what i sensed from that post.

Pressed the "send" button a little too early their, didn't you?

Scroll up. I don't drink and have been actively involved in anti-racist campaigning and have spent many hours in police custody as a result so i doubt you'll have ever met me down your local boozer spewing hate or anything else for that matter.

So, how does it feel to be doing EXACTLY all the things i accuse the likes of you as doing in my first post?

I wondered how long it would take before i as accused of racism. It's a good one that because you aren't interested in whether there is any evidence to back up such a slur, just in how much damage it will do; tunneling under and thieving the high moral ground.

You use a serious word like that and hollow it out until it's meaningless by using it like s dum-dum bullet in order to cause maximum damage and shut down discussion.

What a hateful thing to do.

I would have also accepted "Some of my neighbours are indian"

And maybe "I love curry"

Do ya smellthecoffee?

Such atrocious bluster. You can't hide behind bravado. The more discerning of us can see what you are doing.

I would hope so. Its called enjoying winding up.

"Discerning"? BAHAHAHA!

Don't you mean tinfoil wearing?

Watch out! The sky is falling! (And its all Venkys fault)

You didn't answer my question: why were you replying to my question to J C Rishton?

Take your time.. I understand it takes time to change usernames.

BAHAHAHAHA!

That was like reading f*cling jabberwocky.

[quote][p][bold]roverstid[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Rovers F.C.[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]roverstid[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Rovers F.C.[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]roverstid[/bold] wrote:
Another odd ball post. What makes you think i don't attend matches? The problem with self appointed oracle's of virtue lime you - and this happens every time - is that you conflate opposition to the Venkys with wanting the team to lose. I attend when i can and any one who has ever met me - and there are at least two people who used to be regular contributors to these pages that have - have no doubt of my passion for BRFC.
You sir, are an ****."
This coming from the one who wrote a fiction essay accusing attendees of being extremists, apologists etc. etc.
I'll tell you exactly what you are keyboard warrior, you're a pretender to the throne annoyed at anyone who doesn't share your views or your not so secret fanciful fan ownership agenda.
I won't bore you with the details like you did us, but you sir, are as see through as a birthday suit.
Probably the same enlightened foreigner hating bile spewer I used to have the misfortune of having to ignore in my local.[/p][/quote]Hmmm... anger and... well... hatred was what i sensed from that post.
Pressed the "send" button a little too early their, didn't you?
Scroll up. I don't drink and have been actively involved in anti-racist campaigning and have spent many hours in police custody as a result so i doubt you'll have ever met me down your local boozer spewing hate or anything else for that matter.
So, how does it feel to be doing EXACTLY all the things i accuse the likes of you as doing in my first post?
I wondered how long it would take before i as accused of racism. It's a good one that because you aren't interested in whether there is any evidence to back up such a slur, just in how much damage it will do; tunneling under and thieving the high moral ground.
You use a serious word like that and hollow it out until it's meaningless by using it like s dum-dum bullet in order to cause maximum damage and shut down discussion.
What a hateful thing to do.[/p][/quote]I would have also accepted "Some of my neighbours are indian"
And maybe "I love curry"
Do ya smellthecoffee?[/p][/quote]Such atrocious bluster. You can't hide behind bravado. The more discerning of us can see what you are doing.[/p][/quote]I would hope so. Its called enjoying winding up.
"Discerning"? BAHAHAHA!
Don't you mean tinfoil wearing?
Watch out! The sky is falling! (And its all Venkys fault)
You didn't answer my question: why were you replying to my question to J C Rishton?
Take your time.. I understand it takes time to change usernames.
BAHAHAHAHA![/p][/quote]That was like reading f*cling jabberwocky.Rovers F.C.

bluenwhite wrote:
Right we should have a long list of apologies on here from all you so called &quot;fans" who reckoned the apology letter from Venkys was because they were going to put prices up, like you have said every year since they took over!!!
Over the last year they have done well, keeping quiet, still putting in money and now still subsidising ticket prices.
So stop your F@@king moaning and try supporting the team for a change, you never know we might win a few then!!!

Well said. Venky's biggest mistake was buying into a business in which they knew nothing about and then to compound it by allowing so called knowledgeable people to advise and run the business. Those knowledgeable(parasi

tes) people then took it upon themselves to shaft the club to the tune of millions of pounds,remove Allardyce and appoint their own man in Kean who carried on their good work. Just to make matters worst,in stepped Shabby who just had as much idea of managing the affairs of Rovers as would Donald Duck. Having woke up to what was happening to the club,Kean and Shabby both out of the way and two bad managerial appointments later GB was given the job and a year later stability returned to the club. No Rovers fan will forget what Venky's have done to the club,but last season seemed to have been a turning point in what was needed to run this club.They seem to have got a grasp of having the right people in place to take the club forward. We wait to see how they deal with FFP and what sort of budget they have given GB.We can't change the past, we might not like Venky's but we need Venky's at this moment,and if that means being a happy clapper or whatever you want to call like minded fans,so be it,but I will support the team whoever owns this great club.

I'm sorry earwego but you are doing EXACTLY what that guy with the "war and peace" first post accuses some Rovers fans of doing - you are re-writing history to fit nicely into how you see things now (re - Venkys) NOT accepting what actually happened.

You paint Venkys at the point of the takeover as bumbling know nothing buffoons but this is NOT the case.

At this point they (the Venky family) had bought out over 50 businessess, many of them overseas from India and in business'es which they had never operated.

They were EXPERIENCED takeover business people.

They would have known that the first thing you do when operating overseas in a country you do not know and in a business you do not know is to employ the best LAWYERS and ACCOUNTANTS you can do, then you get the best people in on the ground to do the day to day running of the business - they had THE best CEO in the business and instead of staying with him until they had found their feet they rushed into change and went with a chancer - anyone who takes 2 minutes to google Jerome Anderson can clearly see that he was a sports agent with a dodgey reputation, he was not a football club CEO and therefore was not qualified to run BRFC and Venkys must have known they were taking a huge gamble when they did so.

Venkys appointed JA because they were GREEDY - he spun them a yarn about it beeing easy to get great young talent (eg Goodwillie) start their careers and then sell them at a big fat profit and to do this over and over again (like if it was so easy why didnt EVERY club do it and make huge profits??)

You then said "Shebby Singh materialised" - like he was zapped down from outer space - NO !! he was not.

By this point Venkys had been in charge of BRFC for 2 years and THEY appointed SS, it was their CHOICE to do so - the debarkle of the 2012-2013 season was all down to the VENKYS not Shebby Singh - why, because they CHOSE to employ him (can you image a single other of the 91 football league clubs employing that cretin as anything other than a halftime mascot?).

You may be right that we should be practical and accept Venkys because at the moment (due to their GROSS mismanagement) of the club, we are stuck with them and financially reliant on them - that is fine but please DO NOT absolve them of blame in years gone by just to make things better in your own mind - this is the history of our great club and the story needs to be remembered CORRECTLY, not massaged and changed.

Venkys made mistakes which they are trying to rectify.

No need to forgive and certainly cannot forget. But our choices are get behind the team, enjoy the football and hope for a miracle or stay away and sit at home pouring hate on Venkys every move pretending time can reverse back the Walkers Trust ownership.

Guess which route the majority AND sensible REAL SUPPORTERS have taken?

I'm not saying "hate" Venkys or stay away - infact I say to earwego - "you maybe right that we should be practical and accept Venkys" - what is hateful and anti GB and team sucess there ????

The only point I was trying to make is that we owe it to ourselves and the football club to remember what happened ACCURATELY - not water it down or blame indivduals no longer associated with the club whilst absolving Venkys, just be cause they are still connected to the club and are now having to prop it up financtially.

I am not saying, hate Venkys, boycott the club etc etc (which you seem to be implying).

I think its good that ticket prices are low and that we have a reasonable hope of maybe making the playoffs next season.

Agreed. However, the Venkys Deniers (as i have consistently pointed out) deliberately and elaborately conflate your perfectly rational analysis with emotional rhetoric. This is of course mere skulduggery and i cannot think of anything more dishonest and contemptible (hateful) than that. It's been ruthlessly exposed on these pages today.

[quote][p][bold]J.C - Rishton[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]roverstid[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]J.C - Rishton[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]earwego[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]bluenwhite[/bold] wrote:
Right we should have a long list of apologies on here from all you so called "fans" who reckoned the apology letter from Venkys was because they were going to put prices up, like you have said every year since they took over!!!
Over the last year they have done well, keeping quiet, still putting in money and now still subsidising ticket prices.
So stop your F@@king moaning and try supporting the team for a change, you never know we might win a few then!!![/p][/quote]Well said. Venky's biggest mistake was buying into a business in which they knew nothing about and then to compound it by allowing so called knowledgeable people to advise and run the business. Those knowledgeable(parasi
tes) people then took it upon themselves to shaft the club to the tune of millions of pounds,remove Allardyce and appoint their own man in Kean who carried on their good work. Just to make matters worst,in stepped Shabby who just had as much idea of managing the affairs of Rovers as would Donald Duck. Having woke up to what was happening to the club,Kean and Shabby both out of the way and two bad managerial appointments later GB was given the job and a year later stability returned to the club. No Rovers fan will forget what Venky's have done to the club,but last season seemed to have been a turning point in what was needed to run this club.They seem to have got a grasp of having the right people in place to take the club forward. We wait to see how they deal with FFP and what sort of budget they have given GB.We can't change the past, we might not like Venky's but we need Venky's at this moment,and if that means being a happy clapper or whatever you want to call like minded fans,so be it,but I will support the team whoever owns this great club.[/p][/quote]I'm sorry earwego but you are doing EXACTLY what that guy with the "war and peace" first post accuses some Rovers fans of doing - you are re-writing history to fit nicely into how you see things now (re - Venkys) NOT accepting what actually happened.
You paint Venkys at the point of the takeover as bumbling know nothing buffoons but this is NOT the case.
At this point they (the Venky family) had bought out over 50 businessess, many of them overseas from India and in business'es which they had never operated.
They were EXPERIENCED takeover business people.
They would have known that the first thing you do when operating overseas in a country you do not know and in a business you do not know is to employ the best LAWYERS and ACCOUNTANTS you can do, then you get the best people in on the ground to do the day to day running of the business - they had THE best CEO in the business and instead of staying with him until they had found their feet they rushed into change and went with a chancer - anyone who takes 2 minutes to google Jerome Anderson can clearly see that he was a sports agent with a dodgey reputation, he was not a football club CEO and therefore was not qualified to run BRFC and Venkys must have known they were taking a huge gamble when they did so.
Venkys appointed JA because they were GREEDY - he spun them a yarn about it beeing easy to get great young talent (eg Goodwillie) start their careers and then sell them at a big fat profit and to do this over and over again (like if it was so easy why didnt EVERY club do it and make huge profits??)
You then said "Shebby Singh materialised" - like he was zapped down from outer space - NO !! he was not.
By this point Venkys had been in charge of BRFC for 2 years and THEY appointed SS, it was their CHOICE to do so - the debarkle of the 2012-2013 season was all down to the VENKYS not Shebby Singh - why, because they CHOSE to employ him (can you image a single other of the 91 football league clubs employing that cretin as anything other than a halftime mascot?).
You may be right that we should be practical and accept Venkys because at the moment (due to their GROSS mismanagement) of the club, we are stuck with them and financially reliant on them - that is fine but please DO NOT absolve them of blame in years gone by just to make things better in your own mind - this is the history of our great club and the story needs to be remembered CORRECTLY, not massaged and changed.[/p][/quote]Venkys made mistakes which they are trying to rectify.
No need to forgive and certainly cannot forget. But our choices are get behind the team, enjoy the football and hope for a miracle or stay away and sit at home pouring hate on Venkys every move pretending time can reverse back the Walkers Trust ownership.
Guess which route the majority AND sensible REAL SUPPORTERS have taken?
ps. Rovers FC, loving the hate, keep going it only serves hurts you ;)[/p][/quote]I'm not saying "hate" Venkys or stay away - infact I say to earwego - "you maybe right that we should be practical and accept Venkys" - what is hateful and anti GB and team sucess there ????
The only point I was trying to make is that we owe it to ourselves and the football club to remember what happened ACCURATELY - not water it down or blame indivduals no longer associated with the club whilst absolving Venkys, just be cause they are still connected to the club and are now having to prop it up financtially.
I am not saying, hate Venkys, boycott the club etc etc (which you seem to be implying).
I think its good that ticket prices are low and that we have a reasonable hope of maybe making the playoffs next season.[/p][/quote]Agreed. However, the Venkys Deniers (as i have consistently pointed out) deliberately and elaborately conflate your perfectly rational analysis with emotional rhetoric. This is of course mere skulduggery and i cannot think of anything more dishonest and contemptible (hateful) than that. It's been ruthlessly exposed on these pages today.Rovers F.C.

roverstid wrote:
Another odd ball post. What makes you think i don't attend matches? The problem with self appointed oracle's of virtue lime you - and this happens every time - is that you conflate opposition to the Venkys with wanting the team to lose. I attend when i can and any one who has ever met me - and there are at least two people who used to be regular contributors to these pages that have - have no doubt of my passion for BRFC.

You sir, are an ****.&quot;

This coming from the one who wrote a fiction essay accusing attendees of being extremists, apologists etc. etc.

I'll tell you exactly what you are keyboard warrior, you're a pretender to the throne annoyed at anyone who doesn't share your views or your not so secret fanciful fan ownership agenda.

I won't bore you with the details like you did us, but you sir, are as see through as a birthday suit.

Probably the same enlightened foreigner hating bile spewer I used to have the misfortune of having to ignore in my local.

Hmmm... anger and... well... hatred was what i sensed from that post.

Pressed the "send" button a little too early their, didn't you?

Scroll up. I don't drink and have been actively involved in anti-racist campaigning and have spent many hours in police custody as a result so i doubt you'll have ever met me down your local boozer spewing hate or anything else for that matter.

So, how does it feel to be doing EXACTLY all the things i accuse the likes of you as doing in my first post?

I wondered how long it would take before i as accused of racism. It's a good one that because you aren't interested in whether there is any evidence to back up such a slur, just in how much damage it will do; tunneling under and thieving the high moral ground.

You use a serious word like that and hollow it out until it's meaningless by using it like s dum-dum bullet in order to cause maximum damage and shut down discussion.

What a hateful thing to do.

I would have also accepted "Some of my neighbours are indian"

And maybe "I love curry"

Do ya smellthecoffee?

Such atrocious bluster. You can't hide behind bravado. The more discerning of us can see what you are doing.

I would hope so. Its called enjoying winding up.

"Discerning"? BAHAHAHA!

Don't you mean tinfoil wearing?

Watch out! The sky is falling! (And its all Venkys fault)

You didn't answer my question: why were you replying to my question to J C Rishton?

Take your time.. I understand it takes time to change usernames.

BAHAHAHAHA!

That was like reading f*cling jabberwocky.

What's the problem smelly?

English not your first language? Bahahaha!

"Apologists" love it. :D

[quote][p][bold]Rovers F.C.[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]roverstid[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Rovers F.C.[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]roverstid[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Rovers F.C.[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]roverstid[/bold] wrote:
Another odd ball post. What makes you think i don't attend matches? The problem with self appointed oracle's of virtue lime you - and this happens every time - is that you conflate opposition to the Venkys with wanting the team to lose. I attend when i can and any one who has ever met me - and there are at least two people who used to be regular contributors to these pages that have - have no doubt of my passion for BRFC.
You sir, are an ****."
This coming from the one who wrote a fiction essay accusing attendees of being extremists, apologists etc. etc.
I'll tell you exactly what you are keyboard warrior, you're a pretender to the throne annoyed at anyone who doesn't share your views or your not so secret fanciful fan ownership agenda.
I won't bore you with the details like you did us, but you sir, are as see through as a birthday suit.
Probably the same enlightened foreigner hating bile spewer I used to have the misfortune of having to ignore in my local.[/p][/quote]Hmmm... anger and... well... hatred was what i sensed from that post.
Pressed the "send" button a little too early their, didn't you?
Scroll up. I don't drink and have been actively involved in anti-racist campaigning and have spent many hours in police custody as a result so i doubt you'll have ever met me down your local boozer spewing hate or anything else for that matter.
So, how does it feel to be doing EXACTLY all the things i accuse the likes of you as doing in my first post?
I wondered how long it would take before i as accused of racism. It's a good one that because you aren't interested in whether there is any evidence to back up such a slur, just in how much damage it will do; tunneling under and thieving the high moral ground.
You use a serious word like that and hollow it out until it's meaningless by using it like s dum-dum bullet in order to cause maximum damage and shut down discussion.
What a hateful thing to do.[/p][/quote]I would have also accepted "Some of my neighbours are indian"
And maybe "I love curry"
Do ya smellthecoffee?[/p][/quote]Such atrocious bluster. You can't hide behind bravado. The more discerning of us can see what you are doing.[/p][/quote]I would hope so. Its called enjoying winding up.
"Discerning"? BAHAHAHA!
Don't you mean tinfoil wearing?
Watch out! The sky is falling! (And its all Venkys fault)
You didn't answer my question: why were you replying to my question to J C Rishton?
Take your time.. I understand it takes time to change usernames.
BAHAHAHAHA![/p][/quote]That was like reading f*cling jabberwocky.[/p][/quote]What's the problem smelly?
English not your first language? Bahahaha!
"Apologists" love it. :Droverstid

roverstid wrote:
Another odd ball post. What makes you think i don't attend matches? The problem with self appointed oracle's of virtue lime you - and this happens every time - is that you conflate opposition to the Venkys with wanting the team to lose. I attend when i can and any one who has ever met me - and there are at least two people who used to be regular contributors to these pages that have - have no doubt of my passion for BRFC.

You sir, are an ****.&quot;

This coming from the one who wrote a fiction essay accusing attendees of being extremists, apologists etc. etc.

I'll tell you exactly what you are keyboard warrior, you're a pretender to the throne annoyed at anyone who doesn't share your views or your not so secret fanciful fan ownership agenda.

I won't bore you with the details like you did us, but you sir, are as see through as a birthday suit.

Probably the same enlightened foreigner hating bile spewer I used to have the misfortune of having to ignore in my local.

Hmmm... anger and... well... hatred was what i sensed from that post.

Pressed the "send" button a little too early their, didn't you?

Scroll up. I don't drink and have been actively involved in anti-racist campaigning and have spent many hours in police custody as a result so i doubt you'll have ever met me down your local boozer spewing hate or anything else for that matter.

So, how does it feel to be doing EXACTLY all the things i accuse the likes of you as doing in my first post?

I wondered how long it would take before i as accused of racism. It's a good one that because you aren't interested in whether there is any evidence to back up such a slur, just in how much damage it will do; tunneling under and thieving the high moral ground.

You use a serious word like that and hollow it out until it's meaningless by using it like s dum-dum bullet in order to cause maximum damage and shut down discussion.

What a hateful thing to do.

I would have also accepted "Some of my neighbours are indian"

And maybe "I love curry"

Do ya smellthecoffee?

Such atrocious bluster. You can't hide behind bravado. The more discerning of us can see what you are doing.

I would hope so. Its called enjoying winding up.

"Discerning"? BAHAHAHA!

Don't you mean tinfoil wearing?

Watch out! The sky is falling! (And its all Venkys fault)

You didn't answer my question: why were you replying to my question to J C Rishton?

Take your time.. I understand it takes time to change usernames.

BAHAHAHAHA!

That was like reading f*cling jabberwocky.

What's the problem smelly?

English not your first language? Bahahaha!

"Apologists" love it. :D

Your last 2 or 3 posts have exposed the lie of your assumed persona. That comment about me reminding you of racists down your local boozer didn't ring true. I genuinely believe you are not even old enough to drink.

[quote][p][bold]roverstid[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Rovers F.C.[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]roverstid[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Rovers F.C.[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]roverstid[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Rovers F.C.[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]roverstid[/bold] wrote:
Another odd ball post. What makes you think i don't attend matches? The problem with self appointed oracle's of virtue lime you - and this happens every time - is that you conflate opposition to the Venkys with wanting the team to lose. I attend when i can and any one who has ever met me - and there are at least two people who used to be regular contributors to these pages that have - have no doubt of my passion for BRFC.
You sir, are an ****."
This coming from the one who wrote a fiction essay accusing attendees of being extremists, apologists etc. etc.
I'll tell you exactly what you are keyboard warrior, you're a pretender to the throne annoyed at anyone who doesn't share your views or your not so secret fanciful fan ownership agenda.
I won't bore you with the details like you did us, but you sir, are as see through as a birthday suit.
Probably the same enlightened foreigner hating bile spewer I used to have the misfortune of having to ignore in my local.[/p][/quote]Hmmm... anger and... well... hatred was what i sensed from that post.
Pressed the "send" button a little too early their, didn't you?
Scroll up. I don't drink and have been actively involved in anti-racist campaigning and have spent many hours in police custody as a result so i doubt you'll have ever met me down your local boozer spewing hate or anything else for that matter.
So, how does it feel to be doing EXACTLY all the things i accuse the likes of you as doing in my first post?
I wondered how long it would take before i as accused of racism. It's a good one that because you aren't interested in whether there is any evidence to back up such a slur, just in how much damage it will do; tunneling under and thieving the high moral ground.
You use a serious word like that and hollow it out until it's meaningless by using it like s dum-dum bullet in order to cause maximum damage and shut down discussion.
What a hateful thing to do.[/p][/quote]I would have also accepted "Some of my neighbours are indian"
And maybe "I love curry"
Do ya smellthecoffee?[/p][/quote]Such atrocious bluster. You can't hide behind bravado. The more discerning of us can see what you are doing.[/p][/quote]I would hope so. Its called enjoying winding up.
"Discerning"? BAHAHAHA!
Don't you mean tinfoil wearing?
Watch out! The sky is falling! (And its all Venkys fault)
You didn't answer my question: why were you replying to my question to J C Rishton?
Take your time.. I understand it takes time to change usernames.
BAHAHAHAHA![/p][/quote]That was like reading f*cling jabberwocky.[/p][/quote]What's the problem smelly?
English not your first language? Bahahaha!
"Apologists" love it. :D[/p][/quote]Your last 2 or 3 posts have exposed the lie of your assumed persona. That comment about me reminding you of racists down your local boozer didn't ring true. I genuinely believe you are not even old enough to drink.Rovers F.C.

drunken donut wrote:
I notice that the dingle trolls are conspicuous by their absence, maybe they are still shell shocked by their owners greed.

Yes and if it was feasible i would take up the offer and strongly urge Rovers fans to do so. They were promoted last season and we still averaged higher attendances than them. What a shameful statistic. Wouldn't it be great if not only Rovers fans took advantage of such a good opportunity but we got higher attendance's whilst they were in the PL. They'd never live it down :)

[quote][p][bold]drunken donut[/bold] wrote:
I notice that the dingle trolls are conspicuous by their absence, maybe they are still shell shocked by their owners greed.[/p][/quote]Yes and if it was feasible i would take up the offer and strongly urge Rovers fans to do so. They were promoted last season and we still averaged higher attendances than them. What a shameful statistic. Wouldn't it be great if not only Rovers fans took advantage of such a good opportunity but we got higher attendance's whilst they were in the PL. They'd never live it down :)Rovers F.C.

bluenwhite wrote:
Right we should have a long list of apologies on here from all you so called &quot;fans" who reckoned the apology letter from Venkys was because they were going to put prices up, like you have said every year since they took over!!!
Over the last year they have done well, keeping quiet, still putting in money and now still subsidising ticket prices.
So stop your F@@king moaning and try supporting the team for a change, you never know we might win a few then!!!

Well said. Venky's biggest mistake was buying into a business in which they knew nothing about and then to compound it by allowing so called knowledgeable people to advise and run the business. Those knowledgeable(parasi

tes) people then took it upon themselves to shaft the club to the tune of millions of pounds,remove Allardyce and appoint their own man in Kean who carried on their good work. Just to make matters worst,in stepped Shabby who just had as much idea of managing the affairs of Rovers as would Donald Duck. Having woke up to what was happening to the club,Kean and Shabby both out of the way and two bad managerial appointments later GB was given the job and a year later stability returned to the club. No Rovers fan will forget what Venky's have done to the club,but last season seemed to have been a turning point in what was needed to run this club.They seem to have got a grasp of having the right people in place to take the club forward. We wait to see how they deal with FFP and what sort of budget they have given GB.We can't change the past, we might not like Venky's but we need Venky's at this moment,and if that means being a happy clapper or whatever you want to call like minded fans,so be it,but I will support the team whoever owns this great club.

I'm sorry earwego but you are doing EXACTLY what that guy with the "war and peace" first post accuses some Rovers fans of doing - you are re-writing history to fit nicely into how you see things now (re - Venkys) NOT accepting what actually happened.

You paint Venkys at the point of the takeover as bumbling know nothing buffoons but this is NOT the case.

At this point they (the Venky family) had bought out over 50 businessess, many of them overseas from India and in business'es which they had never operated.

They were EXPERIENCED takeover business people.

They would have known that the first thing you do when operating overseas in a country you do not know and in a business you do not know is to employ the best LAWYERS and ACCOUNTANTS you can do, then you get the best people in on the ground to do the day to day running of the business - they had THE best CEO in the business and instead of staying with him until they had found their feet they rushed into change and went with a chancer - anyone who takes 2 minutes to google Jerome Anderson can clearly see that he was a sports agent with a dodgey reputation, he was not a football club CEO and therefore was not qualified to run BRFC and Venkys must have known they were taking a huge gamble when they did so.

Venkys appointed JA because they were GREEDY - he spun them a yarn about it beeing easy to get great young talent (eg Goodwillie) start their careers and then sell them at a big fat profit and to do this over and over again (like if it was so easy why didnt EVERY club do it and make huge profits??)

You then said "Shebby Singh materialised" - like he was zapped down from outer space - NO !! he was not.

By this point Venkys had been in charge of BRFC for 2 years and THEY appointed SS, it was their CHOICE to do so - the debarkle of the 2012-2013 season was all down to the VENKYS not Shebby Singh - why, because they CHOSE to employ him (can you image a single other of the 91 football league clubs employing that cretin as anything other than a halftime mascot?).

You may be right that we should be practical and accept Venkys because at the moment (due to their GROSS mismanagement) of the club, we are stuck with them and financially reliant on them - that is fine but please DO NOT absolve them of blame in years gone by just to make things better in your own mind - this is the history of our great club and the story needs to be remembered CORRECTLY, not massaged and changed.

Venkys made mistakes which they are trying to rectify.

No need to forgive and certainly cannot forget. But our choices are get behind the team, enjoy the football and hope for a miracle or stay away and sit at home pouring hate on Venkys every move pretending time can reverse back the Walkers Trust ownership.

Guess which route the majority AND sensible REAL SUPPORTERS have taken?

I'm not saying "hate" Venkys or stay away - infact I say to earwego - "you maybe right that we should be practical and accept Venkys" - what is hateful and anti GB and team sucess there ????

The only point I was trying to make is that we owe it to ourselves and the football club to remember what happened ACCURATELY - not water it down or blame indivduals no longer associated with the club whilst absolving Venkys, just be cause they are still connected to the club and are now having to prop it up financtially.

I am not saying, hate Venkys, boycott the club etc etc (which you seem to be implying).

I think its good that ticket prices are low and that we have a reasonable hope of maybe making the playoffs next season.

Agreed. However, the Venkys Deniers (as i have consistently pointed out) deliberately and elaborately conflate your perfectly rational analysis with emotional rhetoric. This is of course mere skulduggery and i cannot think of anything more dishonest and contemptible (hateful) than that. It's been ruthlessly exposed on these pages today.

To be a "Venkys Denier" would be to deny the existence of Venkys would it not?

The only thing being exposed is you and your multiple usernames, essay.

Can ya smellthecoffee?

;)

[quote][p][bold]Rovers F.C.[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]J.C - Rishton[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]roverstid[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]J.C - Rishton[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]earwego[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]bluenwhite[/bold] wrote:
Right we should have a long list of apologies on here from all you so called "fans" who reckoned the apology letter from Venkys was because they were going to put prices up, like you have said every year since they took over!!!
Over the last year they have done well, keeping quiet, still putting in money and now still subsidising ticket prices.
So stop your F@@king moaning and try supporting the team for a change, you never know we might win a few then!!![/p][/quote]Well said. Venky's biggest mistake was buying into a business in which they knew nothing about and then to compound it by allowing so called knowledgeable people to advise and run the business. Those knowledgeable(parasi
tes) people then took it upon themselves to shaft the club to the tune of millions of pounds,remove Allardyce and appoint their own man in Kean who carried on their good work. Just to make matters worst,in stepped Shabby who just had as much idea of managing the affairs of Rovers as would Donald Duck. Having woke up to what was happening to the club,Kean and Shabby both out of the way and two bad managerial appointments later GB was given the job and a year later stability returned to the club. No Rovers fan will forget what Venky's have done to the club,but last season seemed to have been a turning point in what was needed to run this club.They seem to have got a grasp of having the right people in place to take the club forward. We wait to see how they deal with FFP and what sort of budget they have given GB.We can't change the past, we might not like Venky's but we need Venky's at this moment,and if that means being a happy clapper or whatever you want to call like minded fans,so be it,but I will support the team whoever owns this great club.[/p][/quote]I'm sorry earwego but you are doing EXACTLY what that guy with the "war and peace" first post accuses some Rovers fans of doing - you are re-writing history to fit nicely into how you see things now (re - Venkys) NOT accepting what actually happened.
You paint Venkys at the point of the takeover as bumbling know nothing buffoons but this is NOT the case.
At this point they (the Venky family) had bought out over 50 businessess, many of them overseas from India and in business'es which they had never operated.
They were EXPERIENCED takeover business people.
They would have known that the first thing you do when operating overseas in a country you do not know and in a business you do not know is to employ the best LAWYERS and ACCOUNTANTS you can do, then you get the best people in on the ground to do the day to day running of the business - they had THE best CEO in the business and instead of staying with him until they had found their feet they rushed into change and went with a chancer - anyone who takes 2 minutes to google Jerome Anderson can clearly see that he was a sports agent with a dodgey reputation, he was not a football club CEO and therefore was not qualified to run BRFC and Venkys must have known they were taking a huge gamble when they did so.
Venkys appointed JA because they were GREEDY - he spun them a yarn about it beeing easy to get great young talent (eg Goodwillie) start their careers and then sell them at a big fat profit and to do this over and over again (like if it was so easy why didnt EVERY club do it and make huge profits??)
You then said "Shebby Singh materialised" - like he was zapped down from outer space - NO !! he was not.
By this point Venkys had been in charge of BRFC for 2 years and THEY appointed SS, it was their CHOICE to do so - the debarkle of the 2012-2013 season was all down to the VENKYS not Shebby Singh - why, because they CHOSE to employ him (can you image a single other of the 91 football league clubs employing that cretin as anything other than a halftime mascot?).
You may be right that we should be practical and accept Venkys because at the moment (due to their GROSS mismanagement) of the club, we are stuck with them and financially reliant on them - that is fine but please DO NOT absolve them of blame in years gone by just to make things better in your own mind - this is the history of our great club and the story needs to be remembered CORRECTLY, not massaged and changed.[/p][/quote]Venkys made mistakes which they are trying to rectify.
No need to forgive and certainly cannot forget. But our choices are get behind the team, enjoy the football and hope for a miracle or stay away and sit at home pouring hate on Venkys every move pretending time can reverse back the Walkers Trust ownership.
Guess which route the majority AND sensible REAL SUPPORTERS have taken?
ps. Rovers FC, loving the hate, keep going it only serves hurts you ;)[/p][/quote]I'm not saying "hate" Venkys or stay away - infact I say to earwego - "you maybe right that we should be practical and accept Venkys" - what is hateful and anti GB and team sucess there ????
The only point I was trying to make is that we owe it to ourselves and the football club to remember what happened ACCURATELY - not water it down or blame indivduals no longer associated with the club whilst absolving Venkys, just be cause they are still connected to the club and are now having to prop it up financtially.
I am not saying, hate Venkys, boycott the club etc etc (which you seem to be implying).
I think its good that ticket prices are low and that we have a reasonable hope of maybe making the playoffs next season.[/p][/quote]Agreed. However, the Venkys Deniers (as i have consistently pointed out) deliberately and elaborately conflate your perfectly rational analysis with emotional rhetoric. This is of course mere skulduggery and i cannot think of anything more dishonest and contemptible (hateful) than that. It's been ruthlessly exposed on these pages today.[/p][/quote]To be a "Venkys Denier" would be to deny the existence of Venkys would it not?
The only thing being exposed is you and your multiple usernames, essay.
Can ya smellthecoffee?
;)roverstid

roverstid wrote:
Another odd ball post. What makes you think i don't attend matches? The problem with self appointed oracle's of virtue lime you - and this happens every time - is that you conflate opposition to the Venkys with wanting the team to lose. I attend when i can and any one who has ever met me - and there are at least two people who used to be regular contributors to these pages that have - have no doubt of my passion for BRFC.

You sir, are an ****.&quot;

This coming from the one who wrote a fiction essay accusing attendees of being extremists, apologists etc. etc.

I'll tell you exactly what you are keyboard warrior, you're a pretender to the throne annoyed at anyone who doesn't share your views or your not so secret fanciful fan ownership agenda.

I won't bore you with the details like you did us, but you sir, are as see through as a birthday suit.

Probably the same enlightened foreigner hating bile spewer I used to have the misfortune of having to ignore in my local.

Hmmm... anger and... well... hatred was what i sensed from that post.

Pressed the "send" button a little too early their, didn't you?

Scroll up. I don't drink and have been actively involved in anti-racist campaigning and have spent many hours in police custody as a result so i doubt you'll have ever met me down your local boozer spewing hate or anything else for that matter.

So, how does it feel to be doing EXACTLY all the things i accuse the likes of you as doing in my first post?

I wondered how long it would take before i as accused of racism. It's a good one that because you aren't interested in whether there is any evidence to back up such a slur, just in how much damage it will do; tunneling under and thieving the high moral ground.

You use a serious word like that and hollow it out until it's meaningless by using it like s dum-dum bullet in order to cause maximum damage and shut down discussion.

What a hateful thing to do.

I would have also accepted "Some of my neighbours are indian"

And maybe "I love curry"

Do ya smellthecoffee?

Such atrocious bluster. You can't hide behind bravado. The more discerning of us can see what you are doing.

I would hope so. Its called enjoying winding up.

"Discerning"? BAHAHAHA!

Don't you mean tinfoil wearing?

Watch out! The sky is falling! (And its all Venkys fault)

You didn't answer my question: why were you replying to my question to J C Rishton?

Take your time.. I understand it takes time to change usernames.

BAHAHAHAHA!

That was like reading f*cling jabberwocky.

What's the problem smelly?

English not your first language? Bahahaha!

"Apologists" love it. :D

Your last 2 or 3 posts have exposed the lie of your assumed persona. That comment about me reminding you of racists down your local boozer didn't ring true. I genuinely believe you are not even old enough to drink.

I never mentioned race or racists. Didn't Tommy teach you that to be a racist you have to hate a race or were ukipping in class?

;)

[quote][p][bold]Rovers F.C.[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]roverstid[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Rovers F.C.[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]roverstid[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Rovers F.C.[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]roverstid[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Rovers F.C.[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]roverstid[/bold] wrote:
Another odd ball post. What makes you think i don't attend matches? The problem with self appointed oracle's of virtue lime you - and this happens every time - is that you conflate opposition to the Venkys with wanting the team to lose. I attend when i can and any one who has ever met me - and there are at least two people who used to be regular contributors to these pages that have - have no doubt of my passion for BRFC.
You sir, are an ****."
This coming from the one who wrote a fiction essay accusing attendees of being extremists, apologists etc. etc.
I'll tell you exactly what you are keyboard warrior, you're a pretender to the throne annoyed at anyone who doesn't share your views or your not so secret fanciful fan ownership agenda.
I won't bore you with the details like you did us, but you sir, are as see through as a birthday suit.
Probably the same enlightened foreigner hating bile spewer I used to have the misfortune of having to ignore in my local.[/p][/quote]Hmmm... anger and... well... hatred was what i sensed from that post.
Pressed the "send" button a little too early their, didn't you?
Scroll up. I don't drink and have been actively involved in anti-racist campaigning and have spent many hours in police custody as a result so i doubt you'll have ever met me down your local boozer spewing hate or anything else for that matter.
So, how does it feel to be doing EXACTLY all the things i accuse the likes of you as doing in my first post?
I wondered how long it would take before i as accused of racism. It's a good one that because you aren't interested in whether there is any evidence to back up such a slur, just in how much damage it will do; tunneling under and thieving the high moral ground.
You use a serious word like that and hollow it out until it's meaningless by using it like s dum-dum bullet in order to cause maximum damage and shut down discussion.
What a hateful thing to do.[/p][/quote]I would have also accepted "Some of my neighbours are indian"
And maybe "I love curry"
Do ya smellthecoffee?[/p][/quote]Such atrocious bluster. You can't hide behind bravado. The more discerning of us can see what you are doing.[/p][/quote]I would hope so. Its called enjoying winding up.
"Discerning"? BAHAHAHA!
Don't you mean tinfoil wearing?
Watch out! The sky is falling! (And its all Venkys fault)
You didn't answer my question: why were you replying to my question to J C Rishton?
Take your time.. I understand it takes time to change usernames.
BAHAHAHAHA![/p][/quote]That was like reading f*cling jabberwocky.[/p][/quote]What's the problem smelly?
English not your first language? Bahahaha!
"Apologists" love it. :D[/p][/quote]Your last 2 or 3 posts have exposed the lie of your assumed persona. That comment about me reminding you of racists down your local boozer didn't ring true. I genuinely believe you are not even old enough to drink.[/p][/quote]I never mentioned race or racists. Didn't Tommy teach you that to be a racist you have to hate a race or were ukipping in class?
;)roverstid

I didn't want to comment on your initial post without first reading the article on your website (which you had left a link to as a footnote), so as to try and understand where you are coming from first. My main observation was that the title - The Strange Case of Steve Kean - is not a very fitting one. Whilst Steve Kean is mentioned in the article, he certainly isn't the main focus of it. That 'honour' goes to the media who so publicly criticised the whole of Rovers' fan base.

I use the word 'whole' as, despite your clear belief that only those who protested have been victimised, the national media made no such distinction. Those fans who attended the games without a 'Venky's Out!' banner were admonished in equal measure to those who were seen on TV making 'Nescafé gestures' to Steve Kean. I don't dispute there being a divide amongst the fans, nor am I naive enough to believe the last few years have passed without the odd 'incident' breaking out amongst those of differing opinions. I also doubt very much that it was an entirely one-sided affair as you appear to claim it was.

However, with all the progress that has been made over the past year I really don't see the need for this continued hostility. The last two lines of your article read:

Your initial post is hardly a glowing example of the former. In fact, by accusing posters who disagree with you of having multiple accounts, you're pretty much denying them the chance of an open debate or constructive discussion. By accusing those non-protesting fans of all of the latter, without bringing to light the wrongs done to them by the protesting fans (for the purpose of adding balance to the article), and by accusing posters on here of being extremists, etc, you are, yourself, guilty of most of those things you say aren't welcome from others.

It was not a good read.

Rovers F.C.
I didn't want to comment on your initial post without first reading the article on your website (which you had left a link to as a footnote), so as to try and understand where you are coming from first. My main observation was that the title - The Strange Case of Steve Kean - is not a very fitting one. Whilst Steve Kean is mentioned in the article, he certainly isn't the main focus of it. That 'honour' goes to the media who so publicly criticised the whole of Rovers' fan base.
I use the word 'whole' as, despite your clear belief that only those who protested have been victimised, the national media made no such distinction. Those fans who attended the games without a 'Venky's Out!' banner were admonished in equal measure to those who were seen on TV making 'Nescafé gestures' to Steve Kean. I don't dispute there being a divide amongst the fans, nor am I naive enough to believe the last few years have passed without the odd 'incident' breaking out amongst those of differing opinions. I also doubt very much that it was an entirely one-sided affair as you appear to claim it was.
However, with all the progress that has been made over the past year I really don't see the need for this continued hostility. The last two lines of your article read:
''Open debate, constructive discussion and adult exchanges of sensible opinions are welcome.
Slander, smearing, physical assaults, hate campaigns, censorship and media class warfare are not.''
Your initial post is hardly a glowing example of the former. In fact, by accusing posters who disagree with you of having multiple accounts, you're pretty much denying them the chance of an open debate or constructive discussion. By accusing those non-protesting fans of all of the latter, without bringing to light the wrongs done to them by the protesting fans (for the purpose of adding balance to the article), and by accusing posters on here of being extremists, etc, you are, yourself, guilty of most of those things you say aren't welcome from others.
It was not a good read.Welsh Rover

I didn't want to comment on your initial post without first reading the article on your website (which you had left a link to as a footnote), so as to try and understand where you are coming from first. My main observation was that the title - The Strange Case of Steve Kean - is not a very fitting one. Whilst Steve Kean is mentioned in the article, he certainly isn't the main focus of it. That 'honour' goes to the media who so publicly criticised the whole of Rovers' fan base.

I use the word 'whole' as, despite your clear belief that only those who protested have been victimised, the national media made no such distinction. Those fans who attended the games without a 'Venky's Out!' banner were admonished in equal measure to those who were seen on TV making 'Nescafé gestures' to Steve Kean. I don't dispute there being a divide amongst the fans, nor am I naive enough to believe the last few years have passed without the odd 'incident' breaking out amongst those of differing opinions. I also doubt very much that it was an entirely one-sided affair as you appear to claim it was.

However, with all the progress that has been made over the past year I really don't see the need for this continued hostility. The last two lines of your article read:

Your initial post is hardly a glowing example of the former. In fact, by accusing posters who disagree with you of having multiple accounts, you're pretty much denying them the chance of an open debate or constructive discussion. By accusing those non-protesting fans of all of the latter, without bringing to light the wrongs done to them by the protesting fans (for the purpose of adding balance to the article), and by accusing posters on here of being extremists, etc, you are, yourself, guilty of most of those things you say aren't welcome from others.

It was not a good read.

The Strange Case of Steve Kean was used deliberately as a title in order to highlight the way in which the mainstream media's defence of Kean contrasted with their treatment of the fans, protesters and people of the town and i mention the fans, protesters and people of the town quite explicitly in my article so i believe that deals with your second criticism.

I suggest paying closer attention rather than scanning the article next time.
Your post was not a good read

[quote][p][bold]Welsh Rover[/bold] wrote:
Rovers F.C.
I didn't want to comment on your initial post without first reading the article on your website (which you had left a link to as a footnote), so as to try and understand where you are coming from first. My main observation was that the title - The Strange Case of Steve Kean - is not a very fitting one. Whilst Steve Kean is mentioned in the article, he certainly isn't the main focus of it. That 'honour' goes to the media who so publicly criticised the whole of Rovers' fan base.
I use the word 'whole' as, despite your clear belief that only those who protested have been victimised, the national media made no such distinction. Those fans who attended the games without a 'Venky's Out!' banner were admonished in equal measure to those who were seen on TV making 'Nescafé gestures' to Steve Kean. I don't dispute there being a divide amongst the fans, nor am I naive enough to believe the last few years have passed without the odd 'incident' breaking out amongst those of differing opinions. I also doubt very much that it was an entirely one-sided affair as you appear to claim it was.
However, with all the progress that has been made over the past year I really don't see the need for this continued hostility. The last two lines of your article read:
''Open debate, constructive discussion and adult exchanges of sensible opinions are welcome.
Slander, smearing, physical assaults, hate campaigns, censorship and media class warfare are not.''
Your initial post is hardly a glowing example of the former. In fact, by accusing posters who disagree with you of having multiple accounts, you're pretty much denying them the chance of an open debate or constructive discussion. By accusing those non-protesting fans of all of the latter, without bringing to light the wrongs done to them by the protesting fans (for the purpose of adding balance to the article), and by accusing posters on here of being extremists, etc, you are, yourself, guilty of most of those things you say aren't welcome from others.
It was not a good read.[/p][/quote]The Strange Case of Steve Kean was used deliberately as a title in order to highlight the way in which the mainstream media's defence of Kean contrasted with their treatment of the fans, protesters and people of the town and i mention the fans, protesters and people of the town quite explicitly in my article so i believe that deals with your second criticism.
I suggest paying closer attention rather than scanning the article next time.
Your post was not a good readRovers F.C.

I didn't want to comment on your initial post without first reading the article on your website (which you had left a link to as a footnote), so as to try and understand where you are coming from first. My main observation was that the title - The Strange Case of Steve Kean - is not a very fitting one. Whilst Steve Kean is mentioned in the article, he certainly isn't the main focus of it. That 'honour' goes to the media who so publicly criticised the whole of Rovers' fan base.

I use the word 'whole' as, despite your clear belief that only those who protested have been victimised, the national media made no such distinction. Those fans who attended the games without a 'Venky's Out!' banner were admonished in equal measure to those who were seen on TV making 'Nescafé gestures' to Steve Kean. I don't dispute there being a divide amongst the fans, nor am I naive enough to believe the last few years have passed without the odd 'incident' breaking out amongst those of differing opinions. I also doubt very much that it was an entirely one-sided affair as you appear to claim it was.

However, with all the progress that has been made over the past year I really don't see the need for this continued hostility. The last two lines of your article read:

Your initial post is hardly a glowing example of the former. In fact, by accusing posters who disagree with you of having multiple accounts, you're pretty much denying them the chance of an open debate or constructive discussion. By accusing those non-protesting fans of all of the latter, without bringing to light the wrongs done to them by the protesting fans (for the purpose of adding balance to the article), and by accusing posters on here of being extremists, etc, you are, yourself, guilty of most of those things you say aren't welcome from others.

It was not a good read.

Well put my Welsh Friend, whoever this provocative troll is they have demonstrated many of the traits of which they have wrongly accused others., sadly brevity wasn't one of them.

[quote][p][bold]Welsh Rover[/bold] wrote:
Rovers F.C.
I didn't want to comment on your initial post without first reading the article on your website (which you had left a link to as a footnote), so as to try and understand where you are coming from first. My main observation was that the title - The Strange Case of Steve Kean - is not a very fitting one. Whilst Steve Kean is mentioned in the article, he certainly isn't the main focus of it. That 'honour' goes to the media who so publicly criticised the whole of Rovers' fan base.
I use the word 'whole' as, despite your clear belief that only those who protested have been victimised, the national media made no such distinction. Those fans who attended the games without a 'Venky's Out!' banner were admonished in equal measure to those who were seen on TV making 'Nescafé gestures' to Steve Kean. I don't dispute there being a divide amongst the fans, nor am I naive enough to believe the last few years have passed without the odd 'incident' breaking out amongst those of differing opinions. I also doubt very much that it was an entirely one-sided affair as you appear to claim it was.
However, with all the progress that has been made over the past year I really don't see the need for this continued hostility. The last two lines of your article read:
''Open debate, constructive discussion and adult exchanges of sensible opinions are welcome.
Slander, smearing, physical assaults, hate campaigns, censorship and media class warfare are not.''
Your initial post is hardly a glowing example of the former. In fact, by accusing posters who disagree with you of having multiple accounts, you're pretty much denying them the chance of an open debate or constructive discussion. By accusing those non-protesting fans of all of the latter, without bringing to light the wrongs done to them by the protesting fans (for the purpose of adding balance to the article), and by accusing posters on here of being extremists, etc, you are, yourself, guilty of most of those things you say aren't welcome from others.
It was not a good read.[/p][/quote]Well put my Welsh Friend, whoever this provocative troll is they have demonstrated many of the traits of which they have wrongly accused others., sadly brevity wasn't one of them.greenscreener

"Your initial post is hardly a glowing example of the former."
We'll have to agree to disagree.

"In fact, by accusing posters who disagree with you of having multiple accounts, you're pretty much denying them the chance of an open debate or constructive discussion."
Again, a matter of opinion. Why cant they hold a sensible discussion with multiple accounts. I'm currently being accused of such and it is not stopping me from making my point as articulately and as intelligently as i can.

"by accusing those non-protesting fans of all of the latter, without bringing to light the wrongs done to them by the protesting fans (for the purpose of adding balance to the article), and by accusing posters on here of being extremists, etc, you are, yourself, guilty of most of those things you say aren't welcome from others."
Liberal tosh. I mention the accusations of violence and racism and sexism against those people who chose to protest. I then balanced that out with the other side of the story which was not represented in the mainstream media which was that it was usually the protestors that were the targets of intimidation, threats and censorship.
If accusing some one of something then makes you guilty of being what ever it is you are accusing them of being then you live in s parallel universe to the one i live in, (well, you do live in Wales). Do i really need to point out the flaw in that self ridiculous nonsense ?

''Open debate, constructive discussion and adult exchanges of sensible opinions are welcome.
Slander, smearing, physical assaults, hate campaigns, censorship and media class warfare are not.''
"Your initial post is hardly a glowing example of the former."
We'll have to agree to disagree.
"In fact, by accusing posters who disagree with you of having multiple accounts, you're pretty much denying them the chance of an open debate or constructive discussion."
Again, a matter of opinion. Why cant they hold a sensible discussion with multiple accounts. I'm currently being accused of such and it is not stopping me from making my point as articulately and as intelligently as i can.
"by accusing those non-protesting fans of all of the latter, without bringing to light the wrongs done to them by the protesting fans (for the purpose of adding balance to the article), and by accusing posters on here of being extremists, etc, you are, yourself, guilty of most of those things you say aren't welcome from others."
Liberal tosh. I mention the accusations of violence and racism and sexism against those people who chose to protest. I then balanced that out with the other side of the story which was not represented in the mainstream media which was that it was usually the protestors that were the targets of intimidation, threats and censorship.
If accusing some one of something then makes you guilty of being what ever it is you are accusing them of being then you live in s parallel universe to the one i live in, (well, you do live in Wales). Do i really need to point out the flaw in that self ridiculous nonsense ?Rovers F.C.

I didn't want to comment on your initial post without first reading the article on your website (which you had left a link to as a footnote), so as to try and understand where you are coming from first. My main observation was that the title - The Strange Case of Steve Kean - is not a very fitting one. Whilst Steve Kean is mentioned in the article, he certainly isn't the main focus of it. That 'honour' goes to the media who so publicly criticised the whole of Rovers' fan base.

I use the word 'whole' as, despite your clear belief that only those who protested have been victimised, the national media made no such distinction. Those fans who attended the games without a 'Venky's Out!' banner were admonished in equal measure to those who were seen on TV making 'Nescafé gestures' to Steve Kean. I don't dispute there being a divide amongst the fans, nor am I naive enough to believe the last few years have passed without the odd 'incident' breaking out amongst those of differing opinions. I also doubt very much that it was an entirely one-sided affair as you appear to claim it was.

However, with all the progress that has been made over the past year I really don't see the need for this continued hostility. The last two lines of your article read:

Your initial post is hardly a glowing example of the former. In fact, by accusing posters who disagree with you of having multiple accounts, you're pretty much denying them the chance of an open debate or constructive discussion. By accusing those non-protesting fans of all of the latter, without bringing to light the wrongs done to them by the protesting fans (for the purpose of adding balance to the article), and by accusing posters on here of being extremists, etc, you are, yourself, guilty of most of those things you say aren't welcome from others.

It was not a good read.

The Strange Case of Steve Kean was used deliberately as a title in order to highlight the way in which the mainstream media's defence of Kean contrasted with their treatment of the fans, protesters and people of the town and i mention the fans, protesters and people of the town quite explicitly in my article so i believe that deals with your second criticism.

I suggest paying closer attention rather than scanning the article next time.
Your post was not a good read

I didn't just scan, I read the whole article. I went to see 'The Curious Case of Benjamin Button' with my girlfriend and that film was 'Ronseal'. However, the title of your article does not sit right with the content it contains, despite what you may think, as the focus of the article is on the media's poor treatment of the fans and ignorance of the wrongdoings by all of those running the club, not just Steve Kean.

As for dealing with my second criticism, I'm afraid you didn't. Yes you mention 'the protesters and the fans' as if they're all in the same boat, but you lose all credibility the moment you refer to some of them as 'the enemy within' before proceeding to make more unfair judgements about any fans that clearly don't share your views.

Hardly an open debate.

[quote][p][bold]Rovers F.C.[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Welsh Rover[/bold] wrote:
Rovers F.C.
I didn't want to comment on your initial post without first reading the article on your website (which you had left a link to as a footnote), so as to try and understand where you are coming from first. My main observation was that the title - The Strange Case of Steve Kean - is not a very fitting one. Whilst Steve Kean is mentioned in the article, he certainly isn't the main focus of it. That 'honour' goes to the media who so publicly criticised the whole of Rovers' fan base.
I use the word 'whole' as, despite your clear belief that only those who protested have been victimised, the national media made no such distinction. Those fans who attended the games without a 'Venky's Out!' banner were admonished in equal measure to those who were seen on TV making 'Nescafé gestures' to Steve Kean. I don't dispute there being a divide amongst the fans, nor am I naive enough to believe the last few years have passed without the odd 'incident' breaking out amongst those of differing opinions. I also doubt very much that it was an entirely one-sided affair as you appear to claim it was.
However, with all the progress that has been made over the past year I really don't see the need for this continued hostility. The last two lines of your article read:
''Open debate, constructive discussion and adult exchanges of sensible opinions are welcome.
Slander, smearing, physical assaults, hate campaigns, censorship and media class warfare are not.''
Your initial post is hardly a glowing example of the former. In fact, by accusing posters who disagree with you of having multiple accounts, you're pretty much denying them the chance of an open debate or constructive discussion. By accusing those non-protesting fans of all of the latter, without bringing to light the wrongs done to them by the protesting fans (for the purpose of adding balance to the article), and by accusing posters on here of being extremists, etc, you are, yourself, guilty of most of those things you say aren't welcome from others.
It was not a good read.[/p][/quote]The Strange Case of Steve Kean was used deliberately as a title in order to highlight the way in which the mainstream media's defence of Kean contrasted with their treatment of the fans, protesters and people of the town and i mention the fans, protesters and people of the town quite explicitly in my article so i believe that deals with your second criticism.
I suggest paying closer attention rather than scanning the article next time.
Your post was not a good read[/p][/quote]I didn't just scan, I read the whole article. I went to see 'The Curious Case of Benjamin Button' with my girlfriend and that film was 'Ronseal'. However, the title of your article does not sit right with the content it contains, despite what you may think, as the focus of the article is on the media's poor treatment of the fans and ignorance of the wrongdoings by all of those running the club, not just Steve Kean.
As for dealing with my second criticism, I'm afraid you didn't. Yes you mention 'the protesters and the fans' as if they're all in the same boat, but you lose all credibility the moment you refer to some of them as 'the enemy within' before proceeding to make more unfair judgements about any fans that clearly don't share your views.
Hardly an open debate.Welsh Rover

Finally an admission of your bizarre condition. It can't have been easy considering you are how you are.

[quote][p][bold]Super_Clarets[/bold] wrote:
Desperation.[/p][/quote]Finally an admission of your bizarre condition. It can't have been easy considering you are how you are.more bans than ray - brfc lxxv

&quot;Your initial post is hardly a glowing example of the former."
We'll have to agree to disagree.

"In fact, by accusing posters who disagree with you of having multiple accounts, you're pretty much denying them the chance of an open debate or constructive discussion."
Again, a matter of opinion. Why cant they hold a sensible discussion with multiple accounts. I'm currently being accused of such and it is not stopping me from making my point as articulately and as intelligently as i can.

"by accusing those non-protesting fans of all of the latter, without bringing to light the wrongs done to them by the protesting fans (for the purpose of adding balance to the article), and by accusing posters on here of being extremists, etc, you are, yourself, guilty of most of those things you say aren't welcome from others."
Liberal tosh. I mention the accusations of violence and racism and sexism against those people who chose to protest. I then balanced that out with the other side of the story which was not represented in the mainstream media which was that it was usually the protestors that were the targets of intimidation, threats and censorship.
If accusing some one of something then makes you guilty of being what ever it is you are accusing them of being then you live in s parallel universe to the one i live in, (well, you do live in Wales). Do i really need to point out the flaw in that self ridiculous nonsense ?

It's not a case of agreeing to disagree, or a matter of opinion. You've demonstrated a complete disregard for the same things you expect from your fellow fans. As for Liberal tosh, it's not I'm afraid. I didn't say that you were personally guilty of what you'd accused others of, but if you'd done your research properly (as anybody trying to write a balanced article would have), then you'd have been aware that the protesters weren't the only ones on the end of abuse.

As for me living in Wales, I really don't see what that has to do with anything.

[quote][p][bold]Rovers F.C.[/bold] wrote:
''Open debate, constructive discussion and adult exchanges of sensible opinions are welcome.
Slander, smearing, physical assaults, hate campaigns, censorship and media class warfare are not.''
"Your initial post is hardly a glowing example of the former."
We'll have to agree to disagree.
"In fact, by accusing posters who disagree with you of having multiple accounts, you're pretty much denying them the chance of an open debate or constructive discussion."
Again, a matter of opinion. Why cant they hold a sensible discussion with multiple accounts. I'm currently being accused of such and it is not stopping me from making my point as articulately and as intelligently as i can.
"by accusing those non-protesting fans of all of the latter, without bringing to light the wrongs done to them by the protesting fans (for the purpose of adding balance to the article), and by accusing posters on here of being extremists, etc, you are, yourself, guilty of most of those things you say aren't welcome from others."
Liberal tosh. I mention the accusations of violence and racism and sexism against those people who chose to protest. I then balanced that out with the other side of the story which was not represented in the mainstream media which was that it was usually the protestors that were the targets of intimidation, threats and censorship.
If accusing some one of something then makes you guilty of being what ever it is you are accusing them of being then you live in s parallel universe to the one i live in, (well, you do live in Wales). Do i really need to point out the flaw in that self ridiculous nonsense ?[/p][/quote]It's not a case of agreeing to disagree, or a matter of opinion. You've demonstrated a complete disregard for the same things you expect from your fellow fans. As for Liberal tosh, it's not I'm afraid. I didn't say that you were personally guilty of what you'd accused others of, but if you'd done your research properly (as anybody trying to write a balanced article would have), then you'd have been aware that the protesters weren't the only ones on the end of abuse.
As for me living in Wales, I really don't see what that has to do with anything.Welsh Rover

I didn't want to comment on your initial post without first reading the article on your website (which you had left a link to as a footnote), so as to try and understand where you are coming from first. My main observation was that the title - The Strange Case of Steve Kean - is not a very fitting one. Whilst Steve Kean is mentioned in the article, he certainly isn't the main focus of it. That 'honour' goes to the media who so publicly criticised the whole of Rovers' fan base.

I use the word 'whole' as, despite your clear belief that only those who protested have been victimised, the national media made no such distinction. Those fans who attended the games without a 'Venky's Out!' banner were admonished in equal measure to those who were seen on TV making 'Nescafé gestures' to Steve Kean. I don't dispute there being a divide amongst the fans, nor am I naive enough to believe the last few years have passed without the odd 'incident' breaking out amongst those of differing opinions. I also doubt very much that it was an entirely one-sided affair as you appear to claim it was.

However, with all the progress that has been made over the past year I really don't see the need for this continued hostility. The last two lines of your article read:

Your initial post is hardly a glowing example of the former. In fact, by accusing posters who disagree with you of having multiple accounts, you're pretty much denying them the chance of an open debate or constructive discussion. By accusing those non-protesting fans of all of the latter, without bringing to light the wrongs done to them by the protesting fans (for the purpose of adding balance to the article), and by accusing posters on here of being extremists, etc, you are, yourself, guilty of most of those things you say aren't welcome from others.

It was not a good read.

The Strange Case of Steve Kean was used deliberately as a title in order to highlight the way in which the mainstream media's defence of Kean contrasted with their treatment of the fans, protesters and people of the town and i mention the fans, protesters and people of the town quite explicitly in my article so i believe that deals with your second criticism.

I suggest paying closer attention rather than scanning the article next time.
Your post was not a good read

I didn't just scan, I read the whole article. I went to see 'The Curious Case of Benjamin Button' with my girlfriend and that film was 'Ronseal'. However, the title of your article does not sit right with the content it contains, despite what you may think, as the focus of the article is on the media's poor treatment of the fans and ignorance of the wrongdoings by all of those running the club, not just Steve Kean.

As for dealing with my second criticism, I'm afraid you didn't. Yes you mention 'the protesters and the fans' as if they're all in the same boat, but you lose all credibility the moment you refer to some of them as 'the enemy within' before proceeding to make more unfair judgements about any fans that clearly don't share your views.

Hardly an open debate.

Yeah, we're going round in circles now. I'm not interested in your flim-flammery and attempts at semantic pedantry and efforts at entanglement in a web of word play. It's my article, my web site and my title. I've explained the reason for the title once - but again it was inspired by the title The Curious Case of Shannon Mathews in a book by Owen Jones called Chavs which explored how the media dealt with the treatment of her case contrasted with that of Maddi Mcann.

As for your second criticism, again, matters of opinion. You think I'm being unfair and i think I'm entitled to my opinion. I don't lump the fans and protesters together though i concede i do make that point a little clumsily at times.

As for "credibility", you say i lose ALL my credibility because of... my choice of language? And then fail to explain what's wrong with it or the ideas it represents, yet make an arbitrary judgement about ALL my credibility, that sounds pretty extreme to me and again, it is just your opinion, all be it an unbalanced one.
If you want the other side of the "debate" (by the way it's a web site, not a debate) then go to the billionaires corporate media which far out weigh's my little web site.

Kind of puts things into perspective, doesn't it

[quote][p][bold]Welsh Rover[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Rovers F.C.[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Welsh Rover[/bold] wrote:
Rovers F.C.
I didn't want to comment on your initial post without first reading the article on your website (which you had left a link to as a footnote), so as to try and understand where you are coming from first. My main observation was that the title - The Strange Case of Steve Kean - is not a very fitting one. Whilst Steve Kean is mentioned in the article, he certainly isn't the main focus of it. That 'honour' goes to the media who so publicly criticised the whole of Rovers' fan base.
I use the word 'whole' as, despite your clear belief that only those who protested have been victimised, the national media made no such distinction. Those fans who attended the games without a 'Venky's Out!' banner were admonished in equal measure to those who were seen on TV making 'Nescafé gestures' to Steve Kean. I don't dispute there being a divide amongst the fans, nor am I naive enough to believe the last few years have passed without the odd 'incident' breaking out amongst those of differing opinions. I also doubt very much that it was an entirely one-sided affair as you appear to claim it was.
However, with all the progress that has been made over the past year I really don't see the need for this continued hostility. The last two lines of your article read:
''Open debate, constructive discussion and adult exchanges of sensible opinions are welcome.
Slander, smearing, physical assaults, hate campaigns, censorship and media class warfare are not.''
Your initial post is hardly a glowing example of the former. In fact, by accusing posters who disagree with you of having multiple accounts, you're pretty much denying them the chance of an open debate or constructive discussion. By accusing those non-protesting fans of all of the latter, without bringing to light the wrongs done to them by the protesting fans (for the purpose of adding balance to the article), and by accusing posters on here of being extremists, etc, you are, yourself, guilty of most of those things you say aren't welcome from others.
It was not a good read.[/p][/quote]The Strange Case of Steve Kean was used deliberately as a title in order to highlight the way in which the mainstream media's defence of Kean contrasted with their treatment of the fans, protesters and people of the town and i mention the fans, protesters and people of the town quite explicitly in my article so i believe that deals with your second criticism.
I suggest paying closer attention rather than scanning the article next time.
Your post was not a good read[/p][/quote]I didn't just scan, I read the whole article. I went to see 'The Curious Case of Benjamin Button' with my girlfriend and that film was 'Ronseal'. However, the title of your article does not sit right with the content it contains, despite what you may think, as the focus of the article is on the media's poor treatment of the fans and ignorance of the wrongdoings by all of those running the club, not just Steve Kean.
As for dealing with my second criticism, I'm afraid you didn't. Yes you mention 'the protesters and the fans' as if they're all in the same boat, but you lose all credibility the moment you refer to some of them as 'the enemy within' before proceeding to make more unfair judgements about any fans that clearly don't share your views.
Hardly an open debate.[/p][/quote]Yeah, we're going round in circles now. I'm not interested in your flim-flammery and attempts at semantic pedantry and efforts at entanglement in a web of word play. It's my article, my web site and my title. I've explained the reason for the title once - but again it was inspired by the title The Curious Case of Shannon Mathews in a book by Owen Jones called Chavs which explored how the media dealt with the treatment of her case contrasted with that of Maddi Mcann.
As for your second criticism, again, matters of opinion. You think I'm being unfair and i think I'm entitled to my opinion. I don't lump the fans and protesters together though i concede i do make that point a little clumsily at times.
As for "credibility", you say i lose ALL my credibility because of... my choice of language? And then fail to explain what's wrong with it or the ideas it represents, yet make an arbitrary judgement about ALL my credibility, that sounds pretty extreme to me and again, it is just your opinion, all be it an unbalanced one.
If you want the other side of the "debate" (by the way it's a web site, not a debate) then go to the billionaires corporate media which far out weigh's my little web site.
Kind of puts things into perspective, doesn't itRovers F.C.

Best value depends on what you get for the price of the season ticket. There's an old saying 'You get what you pay for'.

If all you're paying is the standard for league 1 football, fans can't complain when that's all they're served up, instead of seeing a team tearing up the Championship en route to automatic promotion.

50% higher may represent better value, if you know as a fan you can demand performances worthy of promotion week-in week-out.

Best value depends on what you get for the price of the season ticket. There's an old saying 'You get what you pay for'.
If all you're paying is the standard for league 1 football, fans can't complain when that's all they're served up, instead of seeing a team tearing up the Championship en route to automatic promotion.
50% higher may represent better value, if you know as a fan you can demand performances worthy of promotion week-in week-out.Richard Oakley

The Clarets in their rightful place at the top table of English football, and the desperate turds of Blackburn Rovers scrambling to maintain their place in the second tier while facing impeding financial ruin. When FFP bends you over it's going to be simply hilarious!

God bless you Venky's.

Bring on the new season.
The Clarets in their rightful place at the top table of English football, and the desperate turds of Blackburn Rovers scrambling to maintain their place in the second tier while facing impeding financial ruin. When FFP bends you over it's going to be simply hilarious!
God bless you Venky's.Super_Clarets

I didn't want to comment on your initial post without first reading the article on your website (which you had left a link to as a footnote), so as to try and understand where you are coming from first. My main observation was that the title - The Strange Case of Steve Kean - is not a very fitting one. Whilst Steve Kean is mentioned in the article, he certainly isn't the main focus of it. That 'honour' goes to the media who so publicly criticised the whole of Rovers' fan base.

I use the word 'whole' as, despite your clear belief that only those who protested have been victimised, the national media made no such distinction. Those fans who attended the games without a 'Venky's Out!' banner were admonished in equal measure to those who were seen on TV making 'Nescafé gestures' to Steve Kean. I don't dispute there being a divide amongst the fans, nor am I naive enough to believe the last few years have passed without the odd 'incident' breaking out amongst those of differing opinions. I also doubt very much that it was an entirely one-sided affair as you appear to claim it was.

However, with all the progress that has been made over the past year I really don't see the need for this continued hostility. The last two lines of your article read:

Your initial post is hardly a glowing example of the former. In fact, by accusing posters who disagree with you of having multiple accounts, you're pretty much denying them the chance of an open debate or constructive discussion. By accusing those non-protesting fans of all of the latter, without bringing to light the wrongs done to them by the protesting fans (for the purpose of adding balance to the article), and by accusing posters on here of being extremists, etc, you are, yourself, guilty of most of those things you say aren't welcome from others.

It was not a good read.

The Strange Case of Steve Kean was used deliberately as a title in order to highlight the way in which the mainstream media's defence of Kean contrasted with their treatment of the fans, protesters and people of the town and i mention the fans, protesters and people of the town quite explicitly in my article so i believe that deals with your second criticism.

I suggest paying closer attention rather than scanning the article next time.
Your post was not a good read

I didn't just scan, I read the whole article. I went to see 'The Curious Case of Benjamin Button' with my girlfriend and that film was 'Ronseal'. However, the title of your article does not sit right with the content it contains, despite what you may think, as the focus of the article is on the media's poor treatment of the fans and ignorance of the wrongdoings by all of those running the club, not just Steve Kean.

As for dealing with my second criticism, I'm afraid you didn't. Yes you mention 'the protesters and the fans' as if they're all in the same boat, but you lose all credibility the moment you refer to some of them as 'the enemy within' before proceeding to make more unfair judgements about any fans that clearly don't share your views.

Hardly an open debate.

Yeah, we're going round in circles now. I'm not interested in your flim-flammery and attempts at semantic pedantry and efforts at entanglement in a web of word play. It's my article, my web site and my title. I've explained the reason for the title once - but again it was inspired by the title The Curious Case of Shannon Mathews in a book by Owen Jones called Chavs which explored how the media dealt with the treatment of her case contrasted with that of Maddi Mcann.

As for your second criticism, again, matters of opinion. You think I'm being unfair and i think I'm entitled to my opinion. I don't lump the fans and protesters together though i concede i do make that point a little clumsily at times.

As for &quot;credibility", you say i lose ALL my credibility because of... my choice of language? And then fail to explain what's wrong with it or the ideas it represents, yet make an arbitrary judgement about ALL my credibility, that sounds pretty extreme to me and again, it is just your opinion, all be it an unbalanced one.
If you want the other side of the "debate" (by the way it's a web site, not a debate) then go to the billionaires corporate media which far out weigh's my little web site.

Kind of puts things into perspective, doesn't it

The opening line from your 'open letter' was intended to antagonise those who don't agree with your opinions, yet as soon as someone pulls you up on it you go on the offensive, implying that you're the one being unfairly judged.

As for it not being a debate, perhaps you shouldn't post a link to an article on your website where one of the closing lines pretty much says that open debate is welcome.

Dewch Ar Chi Gleision!

[quote][p][bold]Rovers F.C.[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Welsh Rover[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Rovers F.C.[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Welsh Rover[/bold] wrote:
Rovers F.C.
I didn't want to comment on your initial post without first reading the article on your website (which you had left a link to as a footnote), so as to try and understand where you are coming from first. My main observation was that the title - The Strange Case of Steve Kean - is not a very fitting one. Whilst Steve Kean is mentioned in the article, he certainly isn't the main focus of it. That 'honour' goes to the media who so publicly criticised the whole of Rovers' fan base.
I use the word 'whole' as, despite your clear belief that only those who protested have been victimised, the national media made no such distinction. Those fans who attended the games without a 'Venky's Out!' banner were admonished in equal measure to those who were seen on TV making 'Nescafé gestures' to Steve Kean. I don't dispute there being a divide amongst the fans, nor am I naive enough to believe the last few years have passed without the odd 'incident' breaking out amongst those of differing opinions. I also doubt very much that it was an entirely one-sided affair as you appear to claim it was.
However, with all the progress that has been made over the past year I really don't see the need for this continued hostility. The last two lines of your article read:
''Open debate, constructive discussion and adult exchanges of sensible opinions are welcome.
Slander, smearing, physical assaults, hate campaigns, censorship and media class warfare are not.''
Your initial post is hardly a glowing example of the former. In fact, by accusing posters who disagree with you of having multiple accounts, you're pretty much denying them the chance of an open debate or constructive discussion. By accusing those non-protesting fans of all of the latter, without bringing to light the wrongs done to them by the protesting fans (for the purpose of adding balance to the article), and by accusing posters on here of being extremists, etc, you are, yourself, guilty of most of those things you say aren't welcome from others.
It was not a good read.[/p][/quote]The Strange Case of Steve Kean was used deliberately as a title in order to highlight the way in which the mainstream media's defence of Kean contrasted with their treatment of the fans, protesters and people of the town and i mention the fans, protesters and people of the town quite explicitly in my article so i believe that deals with your second criticism.
I suggest paying closer attention rather than scanning the article next time.
Your post was not a good read[/p][/quote]I didn't just scan, I read the whole article. I went to see 'The Curious Case of Benjamin Button' with my girlfriend and that film was 'Ronseal'. However, the title of your article does not sit right with the content it contains, despite what you may think, as the focus of the article is on the media's poor treatment of the fans and ignorance of the wrongdoings by all of those running the club, not just Steve Kean.
As for dealing with my second criticism, I'm afraid you didn't. Yes you mention 'the protesters and the fans' as if they're all in the same boat, but you lose all credibility the moment you refer to some of them as 'the enemy within' before proceeding to make more unfair judgements about any fans that clearly don't share your views.
Hardly an open debate.[/p][/quote]Yeah, we're going round in circles now. I'm not interested in your flim-flammery and attempts at semantic pedantry and efforts at entanglement in a web of word play. It's my article, my web site and my title. I've explained the reason for the title once - but again it was inspired by the title The Curious Case of Shannon Mathews in a book by Owen Jones called Chavs which explored how the media dealt with the treatment of her case contrasted with that of Maddi Mcann.
As for your second criticism, again, matters of opinion. You think I'm being unfair and i think I'm entitled to my opinion. I don't lump the fans and protesters together though i concede i do make that point a little clumsily at times.
As for "credibility", you say i lose ALL my credibility because of... my choice of language? And then fail to explain what's wrong with it or the ideas it represents, yet make an arbitrary judgement about ALL my credibility, that sounds pretty extreme to me and again, it is just your opinion, all be it an unbalanced one.
If you want the other side of the "debate" (by the way it's a web site, not a debate) then go to the billionaires corporate media which far out weigh's my little web site.
Kind of puts things into perspective, doesn't it[/p][/quote]The opening line from your 'open letter' was intended to antagonise those who don't agree with your opinions, yet as soon as someone pulls you up on it you go on the offensive, implying that you're the one being unfairly judged.
As for it not being a debate, perhaps you shouldn't post a link to an article on your website where one of the closing lines pretty much says that open debate is welcome.
Dewch Ar Chi Gleision!Welsh Rover

A very fair and honest offer to loyal supporters and hopefully new ones ; certainly entertainment was back on the Agenda in the last couple of months of the season at Ewood,

If we can add a couple of new faces fullback and a midfielder (different to what we have) who can influence a game then I think we could be challenging at the top provided we are not struck buy injuries.

As ffir Venkys - we have got them and I cant see an alternative so lets look ahead and be positive

A very fair and honest offer to loyal supporters and hopefully new ones ; certainly entertainment was back on the Agenda in the last couple of months of the season at Ewood,
If we can add a couple of new faces fullback and a midfielder (different to what we have) who can influence a game then I think we could be challenging at the top provided we are not struck buy injuries.
As ffir Venkys - we have got them and I cant see an alternative so lets look ahead and be positivestick to football

I didn't want to comment on your initial post without first reading the article on your website (which you had left a link to as a footnote), so as to try and understand where you are coming from first. My main observation was that the title - The Strange Case of Steve Kean - is not a very fitting one. Whilst Steve Kean is mentioned in the article, he certainly isn't the main focus of it. That 'honour' goes to the media who so publicly criticised the whole of Rovers' fan base.

I use the word 'whole' as, despite your clear belief that only those who protested have been victimised, the national media made no such distinction. Those fans who attended the games without a 'Venky's Out!' banner were admonished in equal measure to those who were seen on TV making 'Nescafé gestures' to Steve Kean. I don't dispute there being a divide amongst the fans, nor am I naive enough to believe the last few years have passed without the odd 'incident' breaking out amongst those of differing opinions. I also doubt very much that it was an entirely one-sided affair as you appear to claim it was.

However, with all the progress that has been made over the past year I really don't see the need for this continued hostility. The last two lines of your article read:

Your initial post is hardly a glowing example of the former. In fact, by accusing posters who disagree with you of having multiple accounts, you're pretty much denying them the chance of an open debate or constructive discussion. By accusing those non-protesting fans of all of the latter, without bringing to light the wrongs done to them by the protesting fans (for the purpose of adding balance to the article), and by accusing posters on here of being extremists, etc, you are, yourself, guilty of most of those things you say aren't welcome from others.

It was not a good read.

The Strange Case of Steve Kean was used deliberately as a title in order to highlight the way in which the mainstream media's defence of Kean contrasted with their treatment of the fans, protesters and people of the town and i mention the fans, protesters and people of the town quite explicitly in my article so i believe that deals with your second criticism.

I suggest paying closer attention rather than scanning the article next time.
Your post was not a good read

I didn't just scan, I read the whole article. I went to see 'The Curious Case of Benjamin Button' with my girlfriend and that film was 'Ronseal'. However, the title of your article does not sit right with the content it contains, despite what you may think, as the focus of the article is on the media's poor treatment of the fans and ignorance of the wrongdoings by all of those running the club, not just Steve Kean.

As for dealing with my second criticism, I'm afraid you didn't. Yes you mention 'the protesters and the fans' as if they're all in the same boat, but you lose all credibility the moment you refer to some of them as 'the enemy within' before proceeding to make more unfair judgements about any fans that clearly don't share your views.

Hardly an open debate.

Yeah, we're going round in circles now. I'm not interested in your flim-flammery and attempts at semantic pedantry and efforts at entanglement in a web of word play. It's my article, my web site and my title. I've explained the reason for the title once - but again it was inspired by the title The Curious Case of Shannon Mathews in a book by Owen Jones called Chavs which explored how the media dealt with the treatment of her case contrasted with that of Maddi Mcann.

As for your second criticism, again, matters of opinion. You think I'm being unfair and i think I'm entitled to my opinion. I don't lump the fans and protesters together though i concede i do make that point a little clumsily at times.

As for &quot;credibility", you say i lose ALL my credibility because of... my choice of language? And then fail to explain what's wrong with it or the ideas it represents, yet make an arbitrary judgement about ALL my credibility, that sounds pretty extreme to me and again, it is just your opinion, all be it an unbalanced one.
If you want the other side of the "debate" (by the way it's a web site, not a debate) then go to the billionaires corporate media which far out weigh's my little web site.

Kind of puts things into perspective, doesn't it

The opening line from your 'open letter' was intended to antagonise those who don't agree with your opinions, yet as soon as someone pulls you up on it you go on the offensive, implying that you're the one being unfairly judged.

As for it not being a debate, perhaps you shouldn't post a link to an article on your website where one of the closing lines pretty much says that open debate is welcome.

Dewch Ar Chi Gleision!

Open debate is welcome. Though you can't have it on my web site.

You're nitpicking and point scoring and trying to intellectualize. And that is your right.

You don't like what i wrote because you want to feel all warm and fuzzy inside and as pointed out earlier, people like you want to rewrite history to fit with what's happening now in the present.

Like i said, side with the power and the money and the giant corporate media that sub-humanised the fans, the town's people and those that sought protest -and they did too, the corporate media smeared everyone though the reality on the ground was far more complex.
You are on their side of the barricade, i know where i stand and people like me - we chose to fight the good fight

[quote][p][bold]Welsh Rover[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Rovers F.C.[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Welsh Rover[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Rovers F.C.[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Welsh Rover[/bold] wrote:
Rovers F.C.
I didn't want to comment on your initial post without first reading the article on your website (which you had left a link to as a footnote), so as to try and understand where you are coming from first. My main observation was that the title - The Strange Case of Steve Kean - is not a very fitting one. Whilst Steve Kean is mentioned in the article, he certainly isn't the main focus of it. That 'honour' goes to the media who so publicly criticised the whole of Rovers' fan base.
I use the word 'whole' as, despite your clear belief that only those who protested have been victimised, the national media made no such distinction. Those fans who attended the games without a 'Venky's Out!' banner were admonished in equal measure to those who were seen on TV making 'Nescafé gestures' to Steve Kean. I don't dispute there being a divide amongst the fans, nor am I naive enough to believe the last few years have passed without the odd 'incident' breaking out amongst those of differing opinions. I also doubt very much that it was an entirely one-sided affair as you appear to claim it was.
However, with all the progress that has been made over the past year I really don't see the need for this continued hostility. The last two lines of your article read:
''Open debate, constructive discussion and adult exchanges of sensible opinions are welcome.
Slander, smearing, physical assaults, hate campaigns, censorship and media class warfare are not.''
Your initial post is hardly a glowing example of the former. In fact, by accusing posters who disagree with you of having multiple accounts, you're pretty much denying them the chance of an open debate or constructive discussion. By accusing those non-protesting fans of all of the latter, without bringing to light the wrongs done to them by the protesting fans (for the purpose of adding balance to the article), and by accusing posters on here of being extremists, etc, you are, yourself, guilty of most of those things you say aren't welcome from others.
It was not a good read.[/p][/quote]The Strange Case of Steve Kean was used deliberately as a title in order to highlight the way in which the mainstream media's defence of Kean contrasted with their treatment of the fans, protesters and people of the town and i mention the fans, protesters and people of the town quite explicitly in my article so i believe that deals with your second criticism.
I suggest paying closer attention rather than scanning the article next time.
Your post was not a good read[/p][/quote]I didn't just scan, I read the whole article. I went to see 'The Curious Case of Benjamin Button' with my girlfriend and that film was 'Ronseal'. However, the title of your article does not sit right with the content it contains, despite what you may think, as the focus of the article is on the media's poor treatment of the fans and ignorance of the wrongdoings by all of those running the club, not just Steve Kean.
As for dealing with my second criticism, I'm afraid you didn't. Yes you mention 'the protesters and the fans' as if they're all in the same boat, but you lose all credibility the moment you refer to some of them as 'the enemy within' before proceeding to make more unfair judgements about any fans that clearly don't share your views.
Hardly an open debate.[/p][/quote]Yeah, we're going round in circles now. I'm not interested in your flim-flammery and attempts at semantic pedantry and efforts at entanglement in a web of word play. It's my article, my web site and my title. I've explained the reason for the title once - but again it was inspired by the title The Curious Case of Shannon Mathews in a book by Owen Jones called Chavs which explored how the media dealt with the treatment of her case contrasted with that of Maddi Mcann.
As for your second criticism, again, matters of opinion. You think I'm being unfair and i think I'm entitled to my opinion. I don't lump the fans and protesters together though i concede i do make that point a little clumsily at times.
As for "credibility", you say i lose ALL my credibility because of... my choice of language? And then fail to explain what's wrong with it or the ideas it represents, yet make an arbitrary judgement about ALL my credibility, that sounds pretty extreme to me and again, it is just your opinion, all be it an unbalanced one.
If you want the other side of the "debate" (by the way it's a web site, not a debate) then go to the billionaires corporate media which far out weigh's my little web site.
Kind of puts things into perspective, doesn't it[/p][/quote]The opening line from your 'open letter' was intended to antagonise those who don't agree with your opinions, yet as soon as someone pulls you up on it you go on the offensive, implying that you're the one being unfairly judged.
As for it not being a debate, perhaps you shouldn't post a link to an article on your website where one of the closing lines pretty much says that open debate is welcome.
Dewch Ar Chi Gleision![/p][/quote]Open debate is welcome. Though you can't have it on my web site.
You're nitpicking and point scoring and trying to intellectualize. And that is your right.
You don't like what i wrote because you want to feel all warm and fuzzy inside and as pointed out earlier, people like you want to rewrite history to fit with what's happening now in the present.
Like i said, side with the power and the money and the giant corporate media that sub-humanised the fans, the town's people and those that sought protest -and they did too, the corporate media smeared everyone though the reality on the ground was far more complex.
You are on their side of the barricade, i know where i stand and people like me - we chose to fight the good fightRovers F.C.

baldie wrote:
Makes me wonder where all my fellow Happy Clappers have gone.
There were 24000 of us for that final Premiership game against Wigan.

Another lie. 16, 997.

[quote][p][bold]baldie[/bold] wrote:
Makes me wonder where all my fellow Happy Clappers have gone.
There were 24000 of us for that final Premiership game against Wigan.[/p][/quote]Another lie. 16, 997.Rovers F.C.

baldie wrote:
Makes me wonder where all my fellow Happy Clappers have gone.
There were 24000 of us for that final Premiership game against Wigan.

Another lie. 16, 997.

Sorry, last PL game under Kean.

From approx 25,000 under Alardice to approx. 15,000 under Bowyer.
10,000 alienated fans can't all be wrong

[quote][p][bold]Rovers F.C.[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]baldie[/bold] wrote:
Makes me wonder where all my fellow Happy Clappers have gone.
There were 24000 of us for that final Premiership game against Wigan.[/p][/quote]Another lie. 16, 997.[/p][/quote]Sorry, last PL game under Kean.
From approx 25,000 under Alardice to approx. 15,000 under Bowyer.
10,000 alienated fans can't all be wrongRovers F.C.

I didn't want to comment on your initial post without first reading the article on your website (which you had left a link to as a footnote), so as to try and understand where you are coming from first. My main observation was that the title - The Strange Case of Steve Kean - is not a very fitting one. Whilst Steve Kean is mentioned in the article, he certainly isn't the main focus of it. That 'honour' goes to the media who so publicly criticised the whole of Rovers' fan base.

I use the word 'whole' as, despite your clear belief that only those who protested have been victimised, the national media made no such distinction. Those fans who attended the games without a 'Venky's Out!' banner were admonished in equal measure to those who were seen on TV making 'Nescafé gestures' to Steve Kean. I don't dispute there being a divide amongst the fans, nor am I naive enough to believe the last few years have passed without the odd 'incident' breaking out amongst those of differing opinions. I also doubt very much that it was an entirely one-sided affair as you appear to claim it was.

However, with all the progress that has been made over the past year I really don't see the need for this continued hostility. The last two lines of your article read:

Your initial post is hardly a glowing example of the former. In fact, by accusing posters who disagree with you of having multiple accounts, you're pretty much denying them the chance of an open debate or constructive discussion. By accusing those non-protesting fans of all of the latter, without bringing to light the wrongs done to them by the protesting fans (for the purpose of adding balance to the article), and by accusing posters on here of being extremists, etc, you are, yourself, guilty of most of those things you say aren't welcome from others.

It was not a good read.

The Strange Case of Steve Kean was used deliberately as a title in order to highlight the way in which the mainstream media's defence of Kean contrasted with their treatment of the fans, protesters and people of the town and i mention the fans, protesters and people of the town quite explicitly in my article so i believe that deals with your second criticism.

I suggest paying closer attention rather than scanning the article next time.
Your post was not a good read

I didn't just scan, I read the whole article. I went to see 'The Curious Case of Benjamin Button' with my girlfriend and that film was 'Ronseal'. However, the title of your article does not sit right with the content it contains, despite what you may think, as the focus of the article is on the media's poor treatment of the fans and ignorance of the wrongdoings by all of those running the club, not just Steve Kean.

As for dealing with my second criticism, I'm afraid you didn't. Yes you mention 'the protesters and the fans' as if they're all in the same boat, but you lose all credibility the moment you refer to some of them as 'the enemy within' before proceeding to make more unfair judgements about any fans that clearly don't share your views.

Hardly an open debate.

Yeah, we're going round in circles now. I'm not interested in your flim-flammery and attempts at semantic pedantry and efforts at entanglement in a web of word play. It's my article, my web site and my title. I've explained the reason for the title once - but again it was inspired by the title The Curious Case of Shannon Mathews in a book by Owen Jones called Chavs which explored how the media dealt with the treatment of her case contrasted with that of Maddi Mcann.

As for your second criticism, again, matters of opinion. You think I'm being unfair and i think I'm entitled to my opinion. I don't lump the fans and protesters together though i concede i do make that point a little clumsily at times.

As for &quot;credibility", you say i lose ALL my credibility because of... my choice of language? And then fail to explain what's wrong with it or the ideas it represents, yet make an arbitrary judgement about ALL my credibility, that sounds pretty extreme to me and again, it is just your opinion, all be it an unbalanced one.
If you want the other side of the "debate" (by the way it's a web site, not a debate) then go to the billionaires corporate media which far out weigh's my little web site.

Kind of puts things into perspective, doesn't it

The opening line from your 'open letter' was intended to antagonise those who don't agree with your opinions, yet as soon as someone pulls you up on it you go on the offensive, implying that you're the one being unfairly judged.

As for it not being a debate, perhaps you shouldn't post a link to an article on your website where one of the closing lines pretty much says that open debate is welcome.

Dewch Ar Chi Gleision!

Open debate is welcome. Though you can't have it on my web site.

You're nitpicking and point scoring and trying to intellectualize. And that is your right.

You don't like what i wrote because you want to feel all warm and fuzzy inside and as pointed out earlier, people like you want to rewrite history to fit with what's happening now in the present.

Like i said, side with the power and the money and the giant corporate media that sub-humanised the fans, the town's people and those that sought protest -and they did too, the corporate media smeared everyone though the reality on the ground was far more complex.
You are on their side of the barricade, i know where i stand and people like me - we chose to fight the good fight

Yet again you've made another incorrect judgment about a fellow Rovers fan. Nothing you've written about me is true, it's just another sleight on someone who dares to question what you post. Paint yourself as some kind of moral hero all you want, you've not fooled many on here, certainly not me.

Dewch Ar Chi Gleision!

[quote][p][bold]Rovers F.C.[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Welsh Rover[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Rovers F.C.[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Welsh Rover[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Rovers F.C.[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Welsh Rover[/bold] wrote:
Rovers F.C.
I didn't want to comment on your initial post without first reading the article on your website (which you had left a link to as a footnote), so as to try and understand where you are coming from first. My main observation was that the title - The Strange Case of Steve Kean - is not a very fitting one. Whilst Steve Kean is mentioned in the article, he certainly isn't the main focus of it. That 'honour' goes to the media who so publicly criticised the whole of Rovers' fan base.
I use the word 'whole' as, despite your clear belief that only those who protested have been victimised, the national media made no such distinction. Those fans who attended the games without a 'Venky's Out!' banner were admonished in equal measure to those who were seen on TV making 'Nescafé gestures' to Steve Kean. I don't dispute there being a divide amongst the fans, nor am I naive enough to believe the last few years have passed without the odd 'incident' breaking out amongst those of differing opinions. I also doubt very much that it was an entirely one-sided affair as you appear to claim it was.
However, with all the progress that has been made over the past year I really don't see the need for this continued hostility. The last two lines of your article read:
''Open debate, constructive discussion and adult exchanges of sensible opinions are welcome.
Slander, smearing, physical assaults, hate campaigns, censorship and media class warfare are not.''
Your initial post is hardly a glowing example of the former. In fact, by accusing posters who disagree with you of having multiple accounts, you're pretty much denying them the chance of an open debate or constructive discussion. By accusing those non-protesting fans of all of the latter, without bringing to light the wrongs done to them by the protesting fans (for the purpose of adding balance to the article), and by accusing posters on here of being extremists, etc, you are, yourself, guilty of most of those things you say aren't welcome from others.
It was not a good read.[/p][/quote]The Strange Case of Steve Kean was used deliberately as a title in order to highlight the way in which the mainstream media's defence of Kean contrasted with their treatment of the fans, protesters and people of the town and i mention the fans, protesters and people of the town quite explicitly in my article so i believe that deals with your second criticism.
I suggest paying closer attention rather than scanning the article next time.
Your post was not a good read[/p][/quote]I didn't just scan, I read the whole article. I went to see 'The Curious Case of Benjamin Button' with my girlfriend and that film was 'Ronseal'. However, the title of your article does not sit right with the content it contains, despite what you may think, as the focus of the article is on the media's poor treatment of the fans and ignorance of the wrongdoings by all of those running the club, not just Steve Kean.
As for dealing with my second criticism, I'm afraid you didn't. Yes you mention 'the protesters and the fans' as if they're all in the same boat, but you lose all credibility the moment you refer to some of them as 'the enemy within' before proceeding to make more unfair judgements about any fans that clearly don't share your views.
Hardly an open debate.[/p][/quote]Yeah, we're going round in circles now. I'm not interested in your flim-flammery and attempts at semantic pedantry and efforts at entanglement in a web of word play. It's my article, my web site and my title. I've explained the reason for the title once - but again it was inspired by the title The Curious Case of Shannon Mathews in a book by Owen Jones called Chavs which explored how the media dealt with the treatment of her case contrasted with that of Maddi Mcann.
As for your second criticism, again, matters of opinion. You think I'm being unfair and i think I'm entitled to my opinion. I don't lump the fans and protesters together though i concede i do make that point a little clumsily at times.
As for "credibility", you say i lose ALL my credibility because of... my choice of language? And then fail to explain what's wrong with it or the ideas it represents, yet make an arbitrary judgement about ALL my credibility, that sounds pretty extreme to me and again, it is just your opinion, all be it an unbalanced one.
If you want the other side of the "debate" (by the way it's a web site, not a debate) then go to the billionaires corporate media which far out weigh's my little web site.
Kind of puts things into perspective, doesn't it[/p][/quote]The opening line from your 'open letter' was intended to antagonise those who don't agree with your opinions, yet as soon as someone pulls you up on it you go on the offensive, implying that you're the one being unfairly judged.
As for it not being a debate, perhaps you shouldn't post a link to an article on your website where one of the closing lines pretty much says that open debate is welcome.
Dewch Ar Chi Gleision![/p][/quote]Open debate is welcome. Though you can't have it on my web site.
You're nitpicking and point scoring and trying to intellectualize. And that is your right.
You don't like what i wrote because you want to feel all warm and fuzzy inside and as pointed out earlier, people like you want to rewrite history to fit with what's happening now in the present.
Like i said, side with the power and the money and the giant corporate media that sub-humanised the fans, the town's people and those that sought protest -and they did too, the corporate media smeared everyone though the reality on the ground was far more complex.
You are on their side of the barricade, i know where i stand and people like me - we chose to fight the good fight[/p][/quote]Yet again you've made another incorrect judgment about a fellow Rovers fan. Nothing you've written about me is true, it's just another sleight on someone who dares to question what you post. Paint yourself as some kind of moral hero all you want, you've not fooled many on here, certainly not me.
Dewch Ar Chi Gleision!Welsh Rover

I didn't want to comment on your initial post without first reading the article on your website (which you had left a link to as a footnote), so as to try and understand where you are coming from first. My main observation was that the title - The Strange Case of Steve Kean - is not a very fitting one. Whilst Steve Kean is mentioned in the article, he certainly isn't the main focus of it. That 'honour' goes to the media who so publicly criticised the whole of Rovers' fan base.

I use the word 'whole' as, despite your clear belief that only those who protested have been victimised, the national media made no such distinction. Those fans who attended the games without a 'Venky's Out!' banner were admonished in equal measure to those who were seen on TV making 'Nescafé gestures' to Steve Kean. I don't dispute there being a divide amongst the fans, nor am I naive enough to believe the last few years have passed without the odd 'incident' breaking out amongst those of differing opinions. I also doubt very much that it was an entirely one-sided affair as you appear to claim it was.

However, with all the progress that has been made over the past year I really don't see the need for this continued hostility. The last two lines of your article read:

Your initial post is hardly a glowing example of the former. In fact, by accusing posters who disagree with you of having multiple accounts, you're pretty much denying them the chance of an open debate or constructive discussion. By accusing those non-protesting fans of all of the latter, without bringing to light the wrongs done to them by the protesting fans (for the purpose of adding balance to the article), and by accusing posters on here of being extremists, etc, you are, yourself, guilty of most of those things you say aren't welcome from others.

It was not a good read.

The Strange Case of Steve Kean was used deliberately as a title in order to highlight the way in which the mainstream media's defence of Kean contrasted with their treatment of the fans, protesters and people of the town and i mention the fans, protesters and people of the town quite explicitly in my article so i believe that deals with your second criticism.

I suggest paying closer attention rather than scanning the article next time.
Your post was not a good read

I didn't just scan, I read the whole article. I went to see 'The Curious Case of Benjamin Button' with my girlfriend and that film was 'Ronseal'. However, the title of your article does not sit right with the content it contains, despite what you may think, as the focus of the article is on the media's poor treatment of the fans and ignorance of the wrongdoings by all of those running the club, not just Steve Kean.

As for dealing with my second criticism, I'm afraid you didn't. Yes you mention 'the protesters and the fans' as if they're all in the same boat, but you lose all credibility the moment you refer to some of them as 'the enemy within' before proceeding to make more unfair judgements about any fans that clearly don't share your views.

Hardly an open debate.

Yeah, we're going round in circles now. I'm not interested in your flim-flammery and attempts at semantic pedantry and efforts at entanglement in a web of word play. It's my article, my web site and my title. I've explained the reason for the title once - but again it was inspired by the title The Curious Case of Shannon Mathews in a book by Owen Jones called Chavs which explored how the media dealt with the treatment of her case contrasted with that of Maddi Mcann.

As for your second criticism, again, matters of opinion. You think I'm being unfair and i think I'm entitled to my opinion. I don't lump the fans and protesters together though i concede i do make that point a little clumsily at times.

As for &quot;credibility", you say i lose ALL my credibility because of... my choice of language? And then fail to explain what's wrong with it or the ideas it represents, yet make an arbitrary judgement about ALL my credibility, that sounds pretty extreme to me and again, it is just your opinion, all be it an unbalanced one.
If you want the other side of the "debate" (by the way it's a web site, not a debate) then go to the billionaires corporate media which far out weigh's my little web site.

Kind of puts things into perspective, doesn't it

The opening line from your 'open letter' was intended to antagonise those who don't agree with your opinions, yet as soon as someone pulls you up on it you go on the offensive, implying that you're the one being unfairly judged.

As for it not being a debate, perhaps you shouldn't post a link to an article on your website where one of the closing lines pretty much says that open debate is welcome.

Dewch Ar Chi Gleision!

Open debate is welcome. Though you can't have it on my web site.

You're nitpicking and point scoring and trying to intellectualize. And that is your right.

You don't like what i wrote because you want to feel all warm and fuzzy inside and as pointed out earlier, people like you want to rewrite history to fit with what's happening now in the present.

Like i said, side with the power and the money and the giant corporate media that sub-humanised the fans, the town's people and those that sought protest -and they did too, the corporate media smeared everyone though the reality on the ground was far more complex.
You are on their side of the barricade, i know where i stand and people like me - we chose to fight the good fight

Yet again you've made another incorrect judgment about a fellow Rovers fan. Nothing you've written about me is true, it's just another sleight on someone who dares to question what you post. Paint yourself as some kind of moral hero all you want, you've not fooled many on here, certainly not me.

Dewch Ar Chi Gleision!

Traduce me all you like. I can only judge you by what you write. Don't play the wounded hero, it wont wash.

By your deeds ye shall be known.

History will absolve me.

[quote][p][bold]Welsh Rover[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Rovers F.C.[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Welsh Rover[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Rovers F.C.[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Welsh Rover[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Rovers F.C.[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Welsh Rover[/bold] wrote:
Rovers F.C.
I didn't want to comment on your initial post without first reading the article on your website (which you had left a link to as a footnote), so as to try and understand where you are coming from first. My main observation was that the title - The Strange Case of Steve Kean - is not a very fitting one. Whilst Steve Kean is mentioned in the article, he certainly isn't the main focus of it. That 'honour' goes to the media who so publicly criticised the whole of Rovers' fan base.
I use the word 'whole' as, despite your clear belief that only those who protested have been victimised, the national media made no such distinction. Those fans who attended the games without a 'Venky's Out!' banner were admonished in equal measure to those who were seen on TV making 'Nescafé gestures' to Steve Kean. I don't dispute there being a divide amongst the fans, nor am I naive enough to believe the last few years have passed without the odd 'incident' breaking out amongst those of differing opinions. I also doubt very much that it was an entirely one-sided affair as you appear to claim it was.
However, with all the progress that has been made over the past year I really don't see the need for this continued hostility. The last two lines of your article read:
''Open debate, constructive discussion and adult exchanges of sensible opinions are welcome.
Slander, smearing, physical assaults, hate campaigns, censorship and media class warfare are not.''
Your initial post is hardly a glowing example of the former. In fact, by accusing posters who disagree with you of having multiple accounts, you're pretty much denying them the chance of an open debate or constructive discussion. By accusing those non-protesting fans of all of the latter, without bringing to light the wrongs done to them by the protesting fans (for the purpose of adding balance to the article), and by accusing posters on here of being extremists, etc, you are, yourself, guilty of most of those things you say aren't welcome from others.
It was not a good read.[/p][/quote]The Strange Case of Steve Kean was used deliberately as a title in order to highlight the way in which the mainstream media's defence of Kean contrasted with their treatment of the fans, protesters and people of the town and i mention the fans, protesters and people of the town quite explicitly in my article so i believe that deals with your second criticism.
I suggest paying closer attention rather than scanning the article next time.
Your post was not a good read[/p][/quote]I didn't just scan, I read the whole article. I went to see 'The Curious Case of Benjamin Button' with my girlfriend and that film was 'Ronseal'. However, the title of your article does not sit right with the content it contains, despite what you may think, as the focus of the article is on the media's poor treatment of the fans and ignorance of the wrongdoings by all of those running the club, not just Steve Kean.
As for dealing with my second criticism, I'm afraid you didn't. Yes you mention 'the protesters and the fans' as if they're all in the same boat, but you lose all credibility the moment you refer to some of them as 'the enemy within' before proceeding to make more unfair judgements about any fans that clearly don't share your views.
Hardly an open debate.[/p][/quote]Yeah, we're going round in circles now. I'm not interested in your flim-flammery and attempts at semantic pedantry and efforts at entanglement in a web of word play. It's my article, my web site and my title. I've explained the reason for the title once - but again it was inspired by the title The Curious Case of Shannon Mathews in a book by Owen Jones called Chavs which explored how the media dealt with the treatment of her case contrasted with that of Maddi Mcann.
As for your second criticism, again, matters of opinion. You think I'm being unfair and i think I'm entitled to my opinion. I don't lump the fans and protesters together though i concede i do make that point a little clumsily at times.
As for "credibility", you say i lose ALL my credibility because of... my choice of language? And then fail to explain what's wrong with it or the ideas it represents, yet make an arbitrary judgement about ALL my credibility, that sounds pretty extreme to me and again, it is just your opinion, all be it an unbalanced one.
If you want the other side of the "debate" (by the way it's a web site, not a debate) then go to the billionaires corporate media which far out weigh's my little web site.
Kind of puts things into perspective, doesn't it[/p][/quote]The opening line from your 'open letter' was intended to antagonise those who don't agree with your opinions, yet as soon as someone pulls you up on it you go on the offensive, implying that you're the one being unfairly judged.
As for it not being a debate, perhaps you shouldn't post a link to an article on your website where one of the closing lines pretty much says that open debate is welcome.
Dewch Ar Chi Gleision![/p][/quote]Open debate is welcome. Though you can't have it on my web site.
You're nitpicking and point scoring and trying to intellectualize. And that is your right.
You don't like what i wrote because you want to feel all warm and fuzzy inside and as pointed out earlier, people like you want to rewrite history to fit with what's happening now in the present.
Like i said, side with the power and the money and the giant corporate media that sub-humanised the fans, the town's people and those that sought protest -and they did too, the corporate media smeared everyone though the reality on the ground was far more complex.
You are on their side of the barricade, i know where i stand and people like me - we chose to fight the good fight[/p][/quote]Yet again you've made another incorrect judgment about a fellow Rovers fan. Nothing you've written about me is true, it's just another sleight on someone who dares to question what you post. Paint yourself as some kind of moral hero all you want, you've not fooled many on here, certainly not me.
Dewch Ar Chi Gleision![/p][/quote]Traduce me all you like. I can only judge you by what you write. Don't play the wounded hero, it wont wash.
By your deeds ye shall be known.
History will absolve me.Rovers F.C.

All this divide and rule rancour does worry me. Herewith opposing views and analyses plus unresolved issues and some very sensitive, sore points BUT are we not all victims ( survivors hopefully) of the same pattern of pillaging, destruction, lies and deceipt? Do those arguing not all care passionately about the same BRFC,? How I wish someone would take some leadership to try and unite those, who mostly want the same thing in the end? Sorry if that sounds too Mary Poppins...but fellow supporters are not the enemy here!

All this divide and rule rancour does worry me. Herewith opposing views and analyses plus unresolved issues and some very sensitive, sore points BUT are we not all victims ( survivors hopefully) of the same pattern of pillaging, destruction, lies and deceipt? Do those arguing not all care passionately about the same BRFC,? How I wish someone would take some leadership to try and unite those, who mostly want the same thing in the end? Sorry if that sounds too Mary Poppins...but fellow supporters are not the enemy here!Leonard Venkhater

greenscreener wrote: Open response to Rovers F.C. Whoever you are and whatever your motives may be... Sir, as you have decided to call me out on this in public I will reply, because you are attributing views and opinions to me that I do not hold. If you actually go through the archives and read my words I have been consistently critical of Venkys, Anderson and Kean ever since they arrived. I have never blamed Rovers fans for any of the woes you describe and I have supported Gary Bowyer because he is repairing the club from the inside. The fact is I am consistent, in my support for Rovers and my utter disdain for those, like yourself, who appear to want to create nothing but chaos and division. If I am extreme about anything it is my passion for a club I have followed since the 70s and my defence of free speech, even for those, like yourself, who clearly think a gross generalisation will do when you have no actual facts on which to base your tirade. RTID

Open invitation to Rovers FC..... Feel free to either share your evidence or apologise, it would be a pity for you to have written all those words but be left looking like a troll without a shred of integrity. You could choose to hide in shame, or resort to some childish insult, But I'm hoping you are bigger than that.

Childish insult? That is your normal tactic is it not,son?

[quote][p][bold]greenscreener[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]greenscreener[/bold] wrote: Open response to Rovers F.C. Whoever you are and whatever your motives may be... Sir, as you have decided to call me out on this in public I will reply, because you are attributing views and opinions to me that I do not hold. If you actually go through the archives and read my words I have been consistently critical of Venkys, Anderson and Kean ever since they arrived. I have never blamed Rovers fans for any of the woes you describe and I have supported Gary Bowyer because he is repairing the club from the inside. The fact is I am consistent, in my support for Rovers and my utter disdain for those, like yourself, who appear to want to create nothing but chaos and division. If I am extreme about anything it is my passion for a club I have followed since the 70s and my defence of free speech, even for those, like yourself, who clearly think a gross generalisation will do when you have no actual facts on which to base your tirade. RTID[/p][/quote]Open invitation to Rovers FC..... Feel free to either share your evidence or apologise, it would be a pity for you to have written all those words but be left looking like a troll without a shred of integrity. You could choose to hide in shame, or resort to some childish insult, But I'm hoping you are bigger than that.[/p][/quote]Childish insult? That is your normal tactic is it not,son?Bazzer

Leonard Venkhater wrote:
All this divide and rule rancour does worry me. Herewith opposing views and analyses plus unresolved issues and some very sensitive, sore points BUT are we not all victims ( survivors hopefully) of the same pattern of pillaging, destruction, lies and deceipt? Do those arguing not all care passionately about the same BRFC,? How I wish someone would take some leadership to try and unite those, who mostly want the same thing in the end? Sorry if that sounds too Mary Poppins...but fellow supporters are not the enemy here!

No fellow SUPPORTERS are not

When you support a club its through the good times and bad. Owners come and go, a club is supported by its fanbase.

The dummy spitting "lest ye forget" hate filled types like our multiple personality disorder essay are one of a small minority who can't stand to see fans returning as normality and stability hopefully returns, instead branding ant and everyone who doesn't share their views and does not instantly start spewing hate filled bile is a Venkys stooge or a labelled a "happy clapper".

Most recent this campaign seems to increased as the worried doom mongers, having none of their initial predictions of administration, asset stripping etc. Ckme to fruition in the last twelve months, now see more fans returning as things improve on the pitch despite FFP and the well-known challenges in front of us.

This of course doesn't suit the not-so-hidden agendas of these individuals and herewith, you have the divide.

(But of course that's still Venky's doing despite the fact they've hardly been in the picture last season).

There's no cause for alarm here. Fans are intelligent enough to make their own minds up about whether they want to return or not and nothing you, I or Mr fan ownership fantasy dreamer can have any influence on that.

Nobody has forgotten and very few will even forgive Venkys for what they caused. But some just seem to keep harping on about it to keep the fear and hatred fires stoked.

[quote][p][bold]Leonard Venkhater[/bold] wrote:
All this divide and rule rancour does worry me. Herewith opposing views and analyses plus unresolved issues and some very sensitive, sore points BUT are we not all victims ( survivors hopefully) of the same pattern of pillaging, destruction, lies and deceipt? Do those arguing not all care passionately about the same BRFC,? How I wish someone would take some leadership to try and unite those, who mostly want the same thing in the end? Sorry if that sounds too Mary Poppins...but fellow supporters are not the enemy here![/p][/quote]No fellow SUPPORTERS are not
When you support a club its through the good times and bad. Owners come and go, a club is supported by its fanbase.
The dummy spitting "lest ye forget" hate filled types like our multiple personality disorder essay are one of a small minority who can't stand to see fans returning as normality and stability hopefully returns, instead branding ant and everyone who doesn't share their views and does not instantly start spewing hate filled bile is a Venkys stooge or a labelled a "happy clapper".
Most recent this campaign seems to increased as the worried doom mongers, having none of their initial predictions of administration, asset stripping etc. Ckme to fruition in the last twelve months, now see more fans returning as things improve on the pitch despite FFP and the well-known challenges in front of us.
This of course doesn't suit the not-so-hidden agendas of these individuals and herewith, you have the divide.
(But of course that's still Venky's doing despite the fact they've hardly been in the picture last season).
There's no cause for alarm here. Fans are intelligent enough to make their own minds up about whether they want to return or not and nothing you, I or Mr fan ownership fantasy dreamer can have any influence on that.
Nobody has forgotten and very few will even forgive Venkys for what they caused. But some just seem to keep harping on about it to keep the fear and hatred fires stoked.roverstid

Leonard Venkhater wrote:
All this divide and rule rancour does worry me. Herewith opposing views and analyses plus unresolved issues and some very sensitive, sore points BUT are we not all victims ( survivors hopefully) of the same pattern of pillaging, destruction, lies and deceipt? Do those arguing not all care passionately about the same BRFC,? How I wish someone would take some leadership to try and unite those, who mostly want the same thing in the end? Sorry if that sounds too Mary Poppins...but fellow supporters are not the enemy here!

No fellow SUPPORTERS are not

When you support a club its through the good times and bad. Owners come and go, a club is supported by its fanbase.

The dummy spitting &quot;lest ye forget" hate filled types like our multiple personality disorder essay are one of a small minority who can't stand to see fans returning as normality and stability hopefully returns, instead branding ant and everyone who doesn't share their views and does not instantly start spewing hate filled bile is a Venkys stooge or a labelled a "happy clapper".

Most recent this campaign seems to increased as the worried doom mongers, having none of their initial predictions of administration, asset stripping etc. Ckme to fruition in the last twelve months, now see more fans returning as things improve on the pitch despite FFP and the well-known challenges in front of us.

This of course doesn't suit the not-so-hidden agendas of these individuals and herewith, you have the divide.

(But of course that's still Venky's doing despite the fact they've hardly been in the picture last season).

There's no cause for alarm here. Fans are intelligent enough to make their own minds up about whether they want to return or not and nothing you, I or Mr fan ownership fantasy dreamer can have any influence on that.

Nobody has forgotten and very few will even forgive Venkys for what they caused. But some just seem to keep harping on about it to keep the fear and hatred fires stoked.

But I happen to agree with the bit that you intended to be sarcastic. The divide most certainly IS the Venky's doing (and their associates.)
People are in disagreement about what is an appropriate response to wanton destruction of a legacy built over many years.
It is a highly emotive situation. Some people appear threatened when the response of others is different than their own. That is the divide that needs to be bridged.

[quote][p][bold]roverstid[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Leonard Venkhater[/bold] wrote:
All this divide and rule rancour does worry me. Herewith opposing views and analyses plus unresolved issues and some very sensitive, sore points BUT are we not all victims ( survivors hopefully) of the same pattern of pillaging, destruction, lies and deceipt? Do those arguing not all care passionately about the same BRFC,? How I wish someone would take some leadership to try and unite those, who mostly want the same thing in the end? Sorry if that sounds too Mary Poppins...but fellow supporters are not the enemy here![/p][/quote]No fellow SUPPORTERS are not
When you support a club its through the good times and bad. Owners come and go, a club is supported by its fanbase.
The dummy spitting "lest ye forget" hate filled types like our multiple personality disorder essay are one of a small minority who can't stand to see fans returning as normality and stability hopefully returns, instead branding ant and everyone who doesn't share their views and does not instantly start spewing hate filled bile is a Venkys stooge or a labelled a "happy clapper".
Most recent this campaign seems to increased as the worried doom mongers, having none of their initial predictions of administration, asset stripping etc. Ckme to fruition in the last twelve months, now see more fans returning as things improve on the pitch despite FFP and the well-known challenges in front of us.
This of course doesn't suit the not-so-hidden agendas of these individuals and herewith, you have the divide.
(But of course that's still Venky's doing despite the fact they've hardly been in the picture last season).
There's no cause for alarm here. Fans are intelligent enough to make their own minds up about whether they want to return or not and nothing you, I or Mr fan ownership fantasy dreamer can have any influence on that.
Nobody has forgotten and very few will even forgive Venkys for what they caused. But some just seem to keep harping on about it to keep the fear and hatred fires stoked.[/p][/quote]But I happen to agree with the bit that you intended to be sarcastic. The divide most certainly IS the Venky's doing (and their associates.)
People are in disagreement about what is an appropriate response to wanton destruction of a legacy built over many years.
It is a highly emotive situation. Some people appear threatened when the response of others is different than their own. That is the divide that needs to be bridged.Leonard Venkhater

Leonard Venkhater wrote:
All this divide and rule rancour does worry me. Herewith opposing views and analyses plus unresolved issues and some very sensitive, sore points BUT are we not all victims ( survivors hopefully) of the same pattern of pillaging, destruction, lies and deceipt? Do those arguing not all care passionately about the same BRFC,? How I wish someone would take some leadership to try and unite those, who mostly want the same thing in the end? Sorry if that sounds too Mary Poppins...but fellow supporters are not the enemy here!

No fellow SUPPORTERS are not

When you support a club its through the good times and bad. Owners come and go, a club is supported by its fanbase.

The dummy spitting &quot;lest ye forget" hate filled types like our multiple personality disorder essay are one of a small minority who can't stand to see fans returning as normality and stability hopefully returns, instead branding ant and everyone who doesn't share their views and does not instantly start spewing hate filled bile is a Venkys stooge or a labelled a "happy clapper".

Most recent this campaign seems to increased as the worried doom mongers, having none of their initial predictions of administration, asset stripping etc. Ckme to fruition in the last twelve months, now see more fans returning as things improve on the pitch despite FFP and the well-known challenges in front of us.

This of course doesn't suit the not-so-hidden agendas of these individuals and herewith, you have the divide.

(But of course that's still Venky's doing despite the fact they've hardly been in the picture last season).

There's no cause for alarm here. Fans are intelligent enough to make their own minds up about whether they want to return or not and nothing you, I or Mr fan ownership fantasy dreamer can have any influence on that.

Nobody has forgotten and very few will even forgive Venkys for what they caused. But some just seem to keep harping on about it to keep the fear and hatred fires stoked.

Paranoid drivel.

I love BRFC and if it was feasible i would order a Season Ticket. I hope to attend some home games next season and definitely some say games due to where i live.
I urge all who can to take advantage of this great deal. This is more like the Rovers i love. The Rovers who gave me - gave me - a long sleeved shirt back in the day before the option to but LS shirts in the shops were available.

A wonderful gesture.

You want to go back and read your post. It was full of the very hateful rhetoric i wrote about in my first post that was designed to p!ss people like you off.

[quote][p][bold]roverstid[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Leonard Venkhater[/bold] wrote:
All this divide and rule rancour does worry me. Herewith opposing views and analyses plus unresolved issues and some very sensitive, sore points BUT are we not all victims ( survivors hopefully) of the same pattern of pillaging, destruction, lies and deceipt? Do those arguing not all care passionately about the same BRFC,? How I wish someone would take some leadership to try and unite those, who mostly want the same thing in the end? Sorry if that sounds too Mary Poppins...but fellow supporters are not the enemy here![/p][/quote]No fellow SUPPORTERS are not
When you support a club its through the good times and bad. Owners come and go, a club is supported by its fanbase.
The dummy spitting "lest ye forget" hate filled types like our multiple personality disorder essay are one of a small minority who can't stand to see fans returning as normality and stability hopefully returns, instead branding ant and everyone who doesn't share their views and does not instantly start spewing hate filled bile is a Venkys stooge or a labelled a "happy clapper".
Most recent this campaign seems to increased as the worried doom mongers, having none of their initial predictions of administration, asset stripping etc. Ckme to fruition in the last twelve months, now see more fans returning as things improve on the pitch despite FFP and the well-known challenges in front of us.
This of course doesn't suit the not-so-hidden agendas of these individuals and herewith, you have the divide.
(But of course that's still Venky's doing despite the fact they've hardly been in the picture last season).
There's no cause for alarm here. Fans are intelligent enough to make their own minds up about whether they want to return or not and nothing you, I or Mr fan ownership fantasy dreamer can have any influence on that.
Nobody has forgotten and very few will even forgive Venkys for what they caused. But some just seem to keep harping on about it to keep the fear and hatred fires stoked.[/p][/quote]Paranoid drivel.
I love BRFC and if it was feasible i would order a Season Ticket. I hope to attend some home games next season and definitely some say games due to where i live.
I urge all who can to take advantage of this great deal. This is more like the Rovers i love. The Rovers who gave me - gave me - a long sleeved shirt back in the day before the option to but LS shirts in the shops were available.
A wonderful gesture.
You want to go back and read your post. It was full of the very hateful rhetoric i wrote about in my first post that was designed to p!ss people like you off.Rovers F.C.

greenscreener wrote: Open response to Rovers F.C. Whoever you are and whatever your motives may be... Sir, as you have decided to call me out on this in public I will reply, because you are attributing views and opinions to me that I do not hold. If you actually go through the archives and read my words I have been consistently critical of Venkys, Anderson and Kean ever since they arrived. I have never blamed Rovers fans for any of the woes you describe and I have supported Gary Bowyer because he is repairing the club from the inside. The fact is I am consistent, in my support for Rovers and my utter disdain for those, like yourself, who appear to want to create nothing but chaos and division. If I am extreme about anything it is my passion for a club I have followed since the 70s and my defence of free speech, even for those, like yourself, who clearly think a gross generalisation will do when you have no actual facts on which to base your tirade. RTID

Open invitation to Rovers FC..... Feel free to either share your evidence or apologise, it would be a pity for you to have written all those words but be left looking like a troll without a shred of integrity. You could choose to hide in shame, or resort to some childish insult, But I'm hoping you are bigger than that.

Childish insult? That is your normal tactic is it not,son?

;)

[quote][p][bold]Bazzer[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]greenscreener[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]greenscreener[/bold] wrote: Open response to Rovers F.C. Whoever you are and whatever your motives may be... Sir, as you have decided to call me out on this in public I will reply, because you are attributing views and opinions to me that I do not hold. If you actually go through the archives and read my words I have been consistently critical of Venkys, Anderson and Kean ever since they arrived. I have never blamed Rovers fans for any of the woes you describe and I have supported Gary Bowyer because he is repairing the club from the inside. The fact is I am consistent, in my support for Rovers and my utter disdain for those, like yourself, who appear to want to create nothing but chaos and division. If I am extreme about anything it is my passion for a club I have followed since the 70s and my defence of free speech, even for those, like yourself, who clearly think a gross generalisation will do when you have no actual facts on which to base your tirade. RTID[/p][/quote]Open invitation to Rovers FC..... Feel free to either share your evidence or apologise, it would be a pity for you to have written all those words but be left looking like a troll without a shred of integrity. You could choose to hide in shame, or resort to some childish insult, But I'm hoping you are bigger than that.[/p][/quote]Childish insult? That is your normal tactic is it not,son?[/p][/quote];)Rovers F.C.

baldie wrote:
Makes me wonder where all my fellow Happy Clappers have gone.
There were 24000 of us for that final Premiership game against Wigan.

Another lie. 16, 997.

Sorry, last PL game under Kean.

From approx 25,000 under Alardice to approx. 15,000 under Bowyer.
10,000 alienated fans can't all be wrong

..but they can all manage to struggle along under Venky's rule, as long as we're in the Premiership.

[quote][p][bold]Rovers F.C.[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Rovers F.C.[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]baldie[/bold] wrote:
Makes me wonder where all my fellow Happy Clappers have gone.
There were 24000 of us for that final Premiership game against Wigan.[/p][/quote]Another lie. 16, 997.[/p][/quote]Sorry, last PL game under Kean.
From approx 25,000 under Alardice to approx. 15,000 under Bowyer.
10,000 alienated fans can't all be wrong[/p][/quote]..but they can all manage to struggle along under Venky's rule, as long as we're in the Premiership.baldie

baldie wrote:
Makes me wonder where all my fellow Happy Clappers have gone.
There were 24000 of us for that final Premiership game against Wigan.

Another lie. 16, 997.

Sorry, last PL game under Kean.

From approx 25,000 under Alardice to approx. 15,000 under Bowyer.
10,000 alienated fans can't all be wrong

..but they can all manage to struggle along under Venky's rule, as long as we're in the Premiership.

I have no doubt that for many the main reason will be because we're not in the PL. This happens everywhere. Last time we were in the Championship we averaged 19,000 and 20,000. This time, for the past two seasons it'sbeeb just under 15,000. So in reality you could argue we've lost about 4-5,000, rather than 10,000.

These things are complex and nuanced. Now we have an economic crisis and a lot of unemployment to contend with as well. Don't forget, East Lancashire is largely working-class and there just isn't that much money about. Factor in live football on TV, live streaming that can very easily be pirated in the internet for free any day of the week plus all the other things that compete for our cash that weren't there even 20 years ago and then there's some that are boycotting.

I've never boycotted. If you were next to me at a match you 'd be in no doubt of my passion. I care deeply.

[quote][p][bold]baldie[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Rovers F.C.[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Rovers F.C.[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]baldie[/bold] wrote:
Makes me wonder where all my fellow Happy Clappers have gone.
There were 24000 of us for that final Premiership game against Wigan.[/p][/quote]Another lie. 16, 997.[/p][/quote]Sorry, last PL game under Kean.
From approx 25,000 under Alardice to approx. 15,000 under Bowyer.
10,000 alienated fans can't all be wrong[/p][/quote]..but they can all manage to struggle along under Venky's rule, as long as we're in the Premiership.[/p][/quote]I have no doubt that for many the main reason will be because we're not in the PL. This happens everywhere. Last time we were in the Championship we averaged 19,000 and 20,000. This time, for the past two seasons it'sbeeb just under 15,000. So in reality you could argue we've lost about 4-5,000, rather than 10,000.
These things are complex and nuanced. Now we have an economic crisis and a lot of unemployment to contend with as well. Don't forget, East Lancashire is largely working-class and there just isn't that much money about. Factor in live football on TV, live streaming that can very easily be pirated in the internet for free any day of the week plus all the other things that compete for our cash that weren't there even 20 years ago and then there's some that are boycotting.
I've never boycotted. If you were next to me at a match you 'd be in no doubt of my passion. I care deeply.Rovers F.C.

&quot;Your initial post is hardly a glowing example of the former."
We'll have to agree to disagree.

"In fact, by accusing posters who disagree with you of having multiple accounts, you're pretty much denying them the chance of an open debate or constructive discussion."
Again, a matter of opinion. Why cant they hold a sensible discussion with multiple accounts. I'm currently being accused of such and it is not stopping me from making my point as articulately and as intelligently as i can.

"by accusing those non-protesting fans of all of the latter, without bringing to light the wrongs done to them by the protesting fans (for the purpose of adding balance to the article), and by accusing posters on here of being extremists, etc, you are, yourself, guilty of most of those things you say aren't welcome from others."
Liberal tosh. I mention the accusations of violence and racism and sexism against those people who chose to protest. I then balanced that out with the other side of the story which was not represented in the mainstream media which was that it was usually the protestors that were the targets of intimidation, threats and censorship.
If accusing some one of something then makes you guilty of being what ever it is you are accusing them of being then you live in s parallel universe to the one i live in, (well, you do live in Wales). Do i really need to point out the flaw in that self ridiculous nonsense ?

It's not a case of agreeing to disagree, or a matter of opinion. You've demonstrated a complete disregard for the same things you expect from your fellow fans. As for Liberal tosh, it's not I'm afraid. I didn't say that you were personally guilty of what you'd accused others of, but if you'd done your research properly (as anybody trying to write a balanced article would have), then you'd have been aware that the protesters weren't the only ones on the end of abuse.

As for me living in Wales, I really don't see what that has to do with anything.

We all have to live somewhere!

[quote][p][bold]Welsh Rover[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Rovers F.C.[/bold] wrote:
''Open debate, constructive discussion and adult exchanges of sensible opinions are welcome.
Slander, smearing, physical assaults, hate campaigns, censorship and media class warfare are not.''
"Your initial post is hardly a glowing example of the former."
We'll have to agree to disagree.
"In fact, by accusing posters who disagree with you of having multiple accounts, you're pretty much denying them the chance of an open debate or constructive discussion."
Again, a matter of opinion. Why cant they hold a sensible discussion with multiple accounts. I'm currently being accused of such and it is not stopping me from making my point as articulately and as intelligently as i can.
"by accusing those non-protesting fans of all of the latter, without bringing to light the wrongs done to them by the protesting fans (for the purpose of adding balance to the article), and by accusing posters on here of being extremists, etc, you are, yourself, guilty of most of those things you say aren't welcome from others."
Liberal tosh. I mention the accusations of violence and racism and sexism against those people who chose to protest. I then balanced that out with the other side of the story which was not represented in the mainstream media which was that it was usually the protestors that were the targets of intimidation, threats and censorship.
If accusing some one of something then makes you guilty of being what ever it is you are accusing them of being then you live in s parallel universe to the one i live in, (well, you do live in Wales). Do i really need to point out the flaw in that self ridiculous nonsense ?[/p][/quote]It's not a case of agreeing to disagree, or a matter of opinion. You've demonstrated a complete disregard for the same things you expect from your fellow fans. As for Liberal tosh, it's not I'm afraid. I didn't say that you were personally guilty of what you'd accused others of, but if you'd done your research properly (as anybody trying to write a balanced article would have), then you'd have been aware that the protesters weren't the only ones on the end of abuse.
As for me living in Wales, I really don't see what that has to do with anything.[/p][/quote]We all have to live somewhere!Roverthere

Nov2010 VENKYS buy Rovers making Anderson a big fat commission.
Dec2010 Allardyce ousted , VENKYS boyKEAN takes over.
Forward 18 monthsRovers relegated , Kean under pressure, Anderson does not want to halt the gravy train.
Hendry gets enlisted to back up Kean and talk down the Rovers faithfully, not hard to get a bankrupt alcoholic gambler in,Hendry's first words when appointed by Anderson /KEAN was "what you want me today boss?"

Nov2010 VENKYS buy Rovers making Anderson a big fat commission.
Dec2010 Allardyce ousted , VENKYS boyKEAN takes over.
Forward 18 monthsRovers relegated , Kean under pressure, Anderson does not want to halt the gravy train.
Hendry gets enlisted to back up Kean and talk down the Rovers faithfully, not hard to get a bankrupt alcoholic gambler in,Hendry's first words when appointed by Anderson /KEAN was "what you want me today boss?"BRFC75

Fartonadingleshead wrote:
You need to get out more often. This is a comments page not an essay page.

That from some one who posts regularly on these pages, not "commenting" but throwing meaningless empty epithets around.

And again here you are at 07:25 on a Monday morning thieving the high moral ground with yet more insolent and meaningless clichéd babble.

[quote][p][bold]Fartonadingleshead[/bold] wrote:
You need to get out more often. This is a comments page not an essay page.[/p][/quote]That from some one who posts regularly on these pages, not "commenting" but throwing meaningless empty epithets around.
And again here you are at 07:25 on a Monday morning thieving the high moral ground with yet more insolent and meaningless clichéd babble.Rovers F.C.

VENKYS football knowledge Zero.
Rely on people to advise ,unfortunately thay choose either dishonourable incompetent buffoons like Kean, Singh and Hendry or money hungry manipulative scoundrels like Anderson and the other board members.

But they have been found out.

VENKYS football knowledge Zero.
Rely on people to advise ,unfortunately thay choose either dishonourable incompetent buffoons like Kean, Singh and Hendry or money hungry manipulative scoundrels like Anderson and the other board members.
But they have been found out.BRFC75

Dear me. Look at all the infighting going on. Your club is in disarray from the bottom up. I'll give Bowyer ten games before you're slating him for not having you in the top six. Awful support.

STAYING DOWN FOREVER.

Dear me. Look at all the infighting going on. Your club is in disarray from the bottom up. I'll give Bowyer ten games before you're slating him for not having you in the top six. Awful support.
STAYING DOWN FOREVER.Super_Clarets

s Apologists/Venkys Deniers.
The Happy -Clappers dogma, inflexibility and immorality in the way they engage with true Rovers fans has begun to rear its cynical head recently as they suddenly seem to be the dominant voice on these discussion pages now that things are looking good again; shoving shame down the throats of those genuine Rovers fans that still continue to ask awkward questions.
I have read a lot of Happy-Clappers on the internet trying to engage in all kinds of arguments whilst discussing what the Venkys have done to Rovers; many of these Venkys Apologists that present themselves as emissaries of moderation are on the 'Blame the Rovers fans' side of the debate and it is fascinating listening to and watching how they interpret events through the prism of their deeply entrenched belief system - 'beliefs' about what they consider to be 'moral truths' but these 'truths' are nothing more than Orwellian Newspeak where reality is turned upside down - hate is love, war is peace.
I genuinely wonder whether some of these people are in the employ of the dastardly Venkys - sitting on their large wobbly bottoms in front of computers whilst they operate a full scale lying propaganda machine attempting to command and organise the organs of public opinion and our perception of reality through a manipulation of history.
If these so-called Rovers fans (those in the minority who genuinely care more about the Venkys than the club) are allowed to propagate their Happy-Clapper ultra authoritarian mind set, then no matter how objective, relevant or empirically sound those who are opposed to the Venkys might be when our contrary opinions are presented to the nasty noisy negativist Venkys Deniers, they will continue to believe that they do not need to engage with our opinions because they have decided they think we are immoral, (more on this cruel arrogance later).
I believe that if any evidence/opinion is sound, then it is relevant and therefore should be listened to.
However, the Happy-Clapper flotilla of disinformation is just this side of insultingly stupid rendering any form of discourse with them frustrating.
What the Venkys Apologists don't understand is that in any discourse, strong objectivity cannot be achieved by bias; strongly opposing - opposing views - through obfuscation, silencing and bullying tactics does not promote free speech and is an upside down reality. Unfortunately, this is often a tactical tool of discourse by the Happy-Clappers.
Disregarding contrary evidence or opinion and imputing ill intent on the person presenting it is a favourite trick of Happy-Clappers/Venky

s Deniers/ Venkys Apologists - no matter how empirically cogent and rational the opinion presented is - instead they counter with lies, half truths and slippery evasions.
I believe that the way true Rovers fans are often ambushed when discussing the Venkys and then attacked for something completely different by insolent and petulant Venkys propaganda parrots who prefer to smear and sneer is a well worn tactic by the Happy-Clappers who tend to find it difficult to put aside any of their unreasonable convictions about what they feel Rovers fans ought to think.
An extravagantly arrogant mind set leaving it impossible for them to be objective; sometimes disregarding evidence or questions that challenge them, leading to an aggressive projection of their views involving smarmy smugness, dishonesty and hostile rhetoric.
Therefore Venkys Deniers often find it very difficult to engage on any issues in any other model but their own or tolerate those that do; they twist evidence to suite their own upside-down view of things smearing the character of anyone with opinions they do not agree with that make them feel uncomfortable, &quot;You're only saying that because you're a...".
In conclusion let us be clear; owd nick, greenscreener, rovrstid, BRFC 1875, incesteachsunday et al are not the voices of moderation. These were the people that blamed the fans for Steve Keans poor tactics, substitutions and transfers; they blamed the fans for the resignations of Williams and Finn and many others; they blamed the fans for the poor performances of Murphy, Best and Etu; they blame the fans for the debt the club is now in; they blame the fans for the looming FFP transfer embargo and they blamed the fans for relegation. This is obscene 'logic'.
They cannot argue with the facts so they make their own up; Rovers fans boo when Rovers are winning and want Gary Bowyer to fail are a couple of their favourite lies.
It's easy to side with the rich and powerful; the corporate media, Agents and multi billionaire owners of football clubs and far more difficult to stand up against. The Happy-Clappers choose to do the former while cynically traducing those people who chose to do the latter.
This is the moral cowardice of opportunism. They know where the money and power is.
What the corporate media did in blaming Rovers' fans for the very problems foisted upon them is a tried and tested media trick. Today we see the unemployed blamed for unemployment, the homeless blamed for homelessness and those in receipt of state welfare unemployment benefits are blamed for the national debt and the fact that Britain is bankrupt.
The weakest, poorest and most vulnerable are blamed for the problems created by the strongest, richest and least vulnerable.
It's easy to see from the writing style of many of the Happy-Clappers across the internet that they are educated and middle-class. They've looked at the images and listened to the descriptions of the protestors that have been presented by the ugly media narrative and fallen for the illusion of seeing them as thuggish bar brawlers; unreasonable, violent and ungrateful; racist, sexist and hateful. Of being 'poor'. And that last point is important because that is the real reason the Happy-Clappers do not like the fans/protestors/indi

viduals that stood up against the looting of Blackburn Rovers by Jerome Anderson and his gang of pirates.
The Happy-Clappers are synthetic middle-class Nuevo Riché SKY SPORTS Premier League era soulless consumers. They are not fans of the working man's game. They hate it. They're fans of lifeless, sterilised stadiums and expensive match day tickets that only they can afford. They enjoy the plastic seats, manufactured corporate atmosphere, names on players shirts, head ache inducing brightly coloured football boots and up- their-own-arse goal celebrations by players who run off to celebrate on their own in front of the nearest TV cameras. At best they're consumers and at worst they're tourists.
These supine lickspittles have a myopic sense of history. They pepper us with their propaganda and would like us all to believe that it's all over. Everything is better. It's in the "past". No it isn't and they've got their 'tenses' mixed up. The Venkys and everything they've wrought upon Blackburn Rovers is still happening now in the present-continuous.
The happy-clappers' minds may have been placated with the first form of communication from the Venkys in the three years since they acquired the club despite repeated pleas from Rovers fans, local MP's, local councillors, local business men, sponsors and even a very professionally produced and well received documentary - but better late than never, I suppose.
Then again, i think the Venkys have been well and truly shafted as well. They have been badly advised by Anderson, Kean and Singh not to mention Agnew. Their own lawyer described Rovers current Director as a "renegade out of control Director" - no one has ever explained precisely what that means. They've paid out a small fortune to Keane, Appleton and Berg and i believe are still paying Singh's wages. Singh meant well but the man was a buffoon and what in the name of God is the pension thieving con artist Hendry still doing at the club? What a fall from grace for a player i used to idolise from The Blackburn End terrace. The Venkys were also badly advised on the sale of Jones to Manchester United plus they're putting £3million a month into the club just to keep it alive. I would not be surprised if there was just a touch of criminal activity going on in the Ewood Park corridors of power back in 2010-2012. As a humane person i can't help but feel a bit sorry for them.
Then i think of the atrocious arrogance they have shown with their deafening silence these past three years.
The open letter recently published was as good as one could expect. I was fine with it. I welcomed it and it is a start but let's not kid ourselves; the club was moving forward and did not need rebuilding until the Venkys gutted it.
I don't agree with those who think Bowyer should be sterner in his criticisms of the Venkys when being interviewed, that's naïve and unreasonable. Indeed, i am sometimes surprised when Bowyer does refer to the traumas of the past three years and the need to rebuild on and off the pitch and repair the damaged relationship with the fans. He is of course correct and i think that in itself is quite strong language so nice one Gary.
Also, I would rather trust Bowyers assessment of Varney. What Bowyer wants is hard working, committed and professionally minded footballers who wo will lead by example and help the youngsters. Varney must be a breath of fresh air around the place after Best, Murphy, Campbell et al.
I totally understand those who are critical of the signing - and those who are not critical - I'd rather wait and see and trust Bowyers judgement. I'd give Dunn a take it or leave it pay-as-you-play deal. I'd hope he'd take it, he still has something to offer and we need his skill and experience. Surely the young man's a millionaire by now?
As for the 2013-2014 season, i have mixed emotions. It was a very poor league and crying out for any team to put a decent little run together. Derby managed it and even Bournemouth nearly sneaked in. Burnley did not have many decent results after being dumped out of the League Cup by West Ham's Reserves yet finished second. That's how poor the league was.
In a decent league Rovers would have struggled and Burnley would not have been promoted. Sheff' Wed's and Birmingham at Christmas and Sheff' Wed's and Yeovil at Easter were the games that cost us the Play Offs but obviously you could chose any games. The Yeovil result was a disgrace.
I'm still not convinced Bowyer can get us promoted. He is a decent man and has worked a minor miracle and will need time if he is to succeed. Rovers should look at Burnley and Dyche. I desperately hope any Rovers manager will succeed and would be particularly pleased for Bowyer and his team of coaches, physios and squad of players if successful because i consider Bowyer to be one of us and because of the passion, genuine love of the club and heartfelt concern for the fans he has displayed. He has also shown great dignity and strikes me as a man of good character.
owd nick, greenscreener, rovrstid, BRFC1875, incesteachsunday et al will be the first to savagely demand Bowyer's sacking, their hateful impatience cascading from the slopes of Ewood Park demanding his head on a platter if Rovers do not have 6 points from their opening three games next season.
These people are extremists. They portray themselves as a flock of sheep but really they are a pack of wolves, (though that is an insult to the noble wolf). They've put all their eggs in the Gary Bowyer basket and that is why any reasonable and rational words of caution are studiously attacked with patronising contempt.
They are the enemies of everything that is good and proper.
--------
The Venky's Reign of Error: The Strange Case of Steve Kean
http://ewoodpark.jim

do.com/the-venky-s-r

eign-of-error-the-st

range-case-of-steve-

kean/

Knob

[quote][p][bold]Rovers F.C.[/bold] wrote:
Open letter to the Happy-Clappers/Venky
s Apologists/Venkys Deniers.
The Happy -Clappers dogma, inflexibility and immorality in the way they engage with true Rovers fans has begun to rear its cynical head recently as they suddenly seem to be the dominant voice on these discussion pages now that things are looking good again; shoving shame down the throats of those genuine Rovers fans that still continue to ask awkward questions.
I have read a lot of Happy-Clappers on the internet trying to engage in all kinds of arguments whilst discussing what the Venkys have done to Rovers; many of these Venkys Apologists that present themselves as emissaries of moderation are on the 'Blame the Rovers fans' side of the debate and it is fascinating listening to and watching how they interpret events through the prism of their deeply entrenched belief system - 'beliefs' about what they consider to be 'moral truths' but these 'truths' are nothing more than Orwellian Newspeak where reality is turned upside down - hate is love, war is peace.
I genuinely wonder whether some of these people are in the employ of the dastardly Venkys - sitting on their large wobbly bottoms in front of computers whilst they operate a full scale lying propaganda machine attempting to command and organise the organs of public opinion and our perception of reality through a manipulation of history.
If these so-called Rovers fans (those in the minority who genuinely care more about the Venkys than the club) are allowed to propagate their Happy-Clapper ultra authoritarian mind set, then no matter how objective, relevant or empirically sound those who are opposed to the Venkys might be when our contrary opinions are presented to the nasty noisy negativist Venkys Deniers, they will continue to believe that they do not need to engage with our opinions because they have decided they think we are immoral, (more on this cruel arrogance later).
I believe that if any evidence/opinion is sound, then it is relevant and therefore should be listened to.
However, the Happy-Clapper flotilla of disinformation is just this side of insultingly stupid rendering any form of discourse with them frustrating.
What the Venkys Apologists don't understand is that in any discourse, strong objectivity cannot be achieved by bias; strongly opposing - opposing views - through obfuscation, silencing and bullying tactics does not promote free speech and is an upside down reality. Unfortunately, this is often a tactical tool of discourse by the Happy-Clappers.
Disregarding contrary evidence or opinion and imputing ill intent on the person presenting it is a favourite trick of Happy-Clappers/Venky
s Deniers/ Venkys Apologists - no matter how empirically cogent and rational the opinion presented is - instead they counter with lies, half truths and slippery evasions.
I believe that the way true Rovers fans are often ambushed when discussing the Venkys and then attacked for something completely different by insolent and petulant Venkys propaganda parrots who prefer to smear and sneer is a well worn tactic by the Happy-Clappers who tend to find it difficult to put aside any of their unreasonable convictions about what they feel Rovers fans ought to think.
An extravagantly arrogant mind set leaving it impossible for them to be objective; sometimes disregarding evidence or questions that challenge them, leading to an aggressive projection of their views involving smarmy smugness, dishonesty and hostile rhetoric.
Therefore Venkys Deniers often find it very difficult to engage on any issues in any other model but their own or tolerate those that do; they twist evidence to suite their own upside-down view of things smearing the character of anyone with opinions they do not agree with that make them feel uncomfortable, "You're only saying that because you're a...[insert hateful ugly accusation/insult]".
In conclusion let us be clear; owd nick, greenscreener, rovrstid, BRFC 1875, incesteachsunday et al are not the voices of moderation. These were the people that blamed the fans for Steve Keans poor tactics, substitutions and transfers; they blamed the fans for the resignations of Williams and Finn and many others; they blamed the fans for the poor performances of Murphy, Best and Etu; they blame the fans for the debt the club is now in; they blame the fans for the looming FFP transfer embargo and they blamed the fans for relegation. This is obscene 'logic'.
They cannot argue with the facts so they make their own up; Rovers fans boo when Rovers are winning and want Gary Bowyer to fail are a couple of their favourite lies.
It's easy to side with the rich and powerful; the corporate media, Agents and multi billionaire owners of football clubs and far more difficult to stand up against. The Happy-Clappers choose to do the former while cynically traducing those people who chose to do the latter.
This is the moral cowardice of opportunism. They know where the money and power is.
What the corporate media did in blaming Rovers' fans for the very problems foisted upon them is a tried and tested media trick. Today we see the unemployed blamed for unemployment, the homeless blamed for homelessness and those in receipt of state welfare unemployment benefits are blamed for the national debt and the fact that Britain is bankrupt.
The weakest, poorest and most vulnerable are blamed for the problems created by the strongest, richest and least vulnerable.
It's easy to see from the writing style of many of the Happy-Clappers across the internet that they are educated and middle-class. They've looked at the images and listened to the descriptions of the protestors that have been presented by the ugly media narrative and fallen for the illusion of seeing them as thuggish bar brawlers; unreasonable, violent and ungrateful; racist, sexist and hateful. Of being 'poor'. And that last point is important because that is the real reason the Happy-Clappers do not like the fans/protestors/indi
viduals that stood up against the looting of Blackburn Rovers by Jerome Anderson and his gang of pirates.
The Happy-Clappers are synthetic middle-class Nuevo Riché SKY SPORTS Premier League era soulless consumers. They are not fans of the working man's game. They hate it. They're fans of lifeless, sterilised stadiums and expensive match day tickets that only they can afford. They enjoy the plastic seats, manufactured corporate atmosphere, names on players shirts, head ache inducing brightly coloured football boots and up- their-own-arse goal celebrations by players who run off to celebrate on their own in front of the nearest TV cameras. At best they're consumers and at worst they're tourists.
These supine lickspittles have a myopic sense of history. They pepper us with their propaganda and would like us all to believe that it's all over. Everything is better. It's in the "past". No it isn't and they've got their 'tenses' mixed up. The Venkys and everything they've wrought upon Blackburn Rovers is still happening now in the present-continuous.
The happy-clappers' minds may have been placated with the first form of communication from the Venkys in the three years since they acquired the club despite repeated pleas from Rovers fans, local MP's, local councillors, local business men, sponsors and even a very professionally produced and well received documentary - but better late than never, I suppose.
Then again, i think the Venkys have been well and truly shafted as well. They have been badly advised by Anderson, Kean and Singh not to mention Agnew. Their own lawyer described Rovers current Director as a "renegade out of control Director" - no one has ever explained precisely what that means. They've paid out a small fortune to Keane, Appleton and Berg and i believe are still paying Singh's wages. Singh meant well but the man was a buffoon and what in the name of God is the pension thieving con artist Hendry still doing at the club? What a fall from grace for a player i used to idolise from The Blackburn End terrace. The Venkys were also badly advised on the sale of Jones to Manchester United plus they're putting £3million a month into the club just to keep it alive. I would not be surprised if there was just a touch of criminal activity going on in the Ewood Park corridors of power back in 2010-2012. As a humane person i can't help but feel a bit sorry for them.
Then i think of the atrocious arrogance they have shown with their deafening silence these past three years.
The open letter recently published was as good as one could expect. I was fine with it. I welcomed it and it is a start but let's not kid ourselves; the club was moving forward and did not need rebuilding until the Venkys gutted it.
I don't agree with those who think Bowyer should be sterner in his criticisms of the Venkys when being interviewed, that's naïve and unreasonable. Indeed, i am sometimes surprised when Bowyer does refer to the traumas of the past three years and the need to rebuild on and off the pitch and repair the damaged relationship with the fans. He is of course correct and i think that in itself is quite strong language so nice one Gary.
Also, I would rather trust Bowyers assessment of Varney. What Bowyer wants is hard working, committed and professionally minded footballers who wo will lead by example and help the youngsters. Varney must be a breath of fresh air around the place after Best, Murphy, Campbell et al.
I totally understand those who are critical of the signing - and those who are not critical - I'd rather wait and see and trust Bowyers judgement. I'd give Dunn a take it or leave it pay-as-you-play deal. I'd hope he'd take it, he still has something to offer and we need his skill and experience. Surely the young man's a millionaire by now?
As for the 2013-2014 season, i have mixed emotions. It was a very poor league and crying out for any team to put a decent little run together. Derby managed it and even Bournemouth nearly sneaked in. Burnley did not have many decent results after being dumped out of the League Cup by West Ham's Reserves yet finished second. That's how poor the league was.
In a decent league Rovers would have struggled and Burnley would not have been promoted. Sheff' Wed's and Birmingham at Christmas and Sheff' Wed's and Yeovil at Easter were the games that cost us the Play Offs but obviously you could chose any games. The Yeovil result was a disgrace.
I'm still not convinced Bowyer can get us promoted. He is a decent man and has worked a minor miracle and will need time if he is to succeed. Rovers should look at Burnley and Dyche. I desperately hope any Rovers manager will succeed and would be particularly pleased for Bowyer and his team of coaches, physios and squad of players if successful because i consider Bowyer to be one of us and because of the passion, genuine love of the club and heartfelt concern for the fans he has displayed. He has also shown great dignity and strikes me as a man of good character.
owd nick, greenscreener, rovrstid, BRFC1875, incesteachsunday et al will be the first to savagely demand Bowyer's sacking, their hateful impatience cascading from the slopes of Ewood Park demanding his head on a platter if Rovers do not have 6 points from their opening three games next season.
These people are extremists. They portray themselves as a flock of sheep but really they are a pack of wolves, (though that is an insult to the noble wolf). They've put all their eggs in the Gary Bowyer basket and that is why any reasonable and rational words of caution are studiously attacked with patronising contempt.
They are the enemies of everything that is good and proper.
--------
The Venky's Reign of Error: The Strange Case of Steve Kean
http://ewoodpark.jim
do.com/the-venky-s-r
eign-of-error-the-st
range-case-of-steve-
kean/[/p][/quote]KnobAngry From Accrington

Fartonadingleshead wrote: You need to get out more often. This is a comments page not an essay page.

That from some one who posts regularly on these pages, not &quot;commenting" but throwing meaningless empty epithets around. And again here you are at 07:25 on a Monday morning thieving the high moral ground with yet more insolent and meaningless clichéd babble.

You certainly have issues don't you. Like most Rovers fans on here, all we want is to watch and support our club, a few beers maybe, and a bit of banter with the Dingles. If your not prepared to move on. Go support another team or something, instead of wasting your own time posting waffle that nobody can be bothered to read.
Again season tickets one of the best value around. Roll on next season.

[quote][p][bold]Rovers F.C.[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Fartonadingleshead[/bold] wrote: You need to get out more often. This is a comments page not an essay page.[/p][/quote]That from some one who posts regularly on these pages, not "commenting" but throwing meaningless empty epithets around. And again here you are at 07:25 on a Monday morning thieving the high moral ground with yet more insolent and meaningless clichéd babble.[/p][/quote]You certainly have issues don't you. Like most Rovers fans on here, all we want is to watch and support our club, a few beers maybe, and a bit of banter with the Dingles. If your not prepared to move on. Go support another team or something, instead of wasting your own time posting waffle that nobody can be bothered to read.
Again season tickets one of the best value around. Roll on next season.Fartonadingleshead

BRFC75 wrote:
VENKYS football knowledge Zero.
Rely on people to advise ,unfortunately thay choose either dishonourable incompetent buffoons like Kean, Singh and Hendry or money hungry manipulative scoundrels like Anderson and the other board members.

But they have been found out.

You mention smellthecoffee and lo behold it appears!

How many other usernames do you have smelly essay?

[quote][p][bold]BRFC75[/bold] wrote:
VENKYS football knowledge Zero.
Rely on people to advise ,unfortunately thay choose either dishonourable incompetent buffoons like Kean, Singh and Hendry or money hungry manipulative scoundrels like Anderson and the other board members.
But they have been found out.[/p][/quote]You mention smellthecoffee and lo behold it appears!
How many other usernames do you have smelly essay?roverstid