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Ok, just let me have it and get it over with......

Ben Wallace was an idiot for starting that crap. ANd he's the nicest guy on Earth, and I know he feels guilter than anyone. But shame on you, Ben. At least I know he wont do that again.

Rasheed should have NOT gotten into the shouting match with Jackson.

As for the fans......I give up. I have tickets for the next pacers game at the Palace, and I may not be able to go now, because I think the NBA might ban all fans from that game. The good part is, I hope that all beer will (and should) be banned from games.

Well, whatever. I realize I'm going to get it from you guys, may as well get it over with now.....

What pisses me off is, Now I can't be as demonstrative in Conseco as I was last year, since all freaking piston fans are getting judged for this.....Now i'm relegated to chirping like those old women in section 205........bah.

It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

Re: Ok, just let me have it and get it over with......

Kstat - you're a good guy.

I'm in the same position...the only Pacers games I can see usually are in Detroit (cheaper than Toronto).

Now - if I am even allowed to go...I can't wear my jersey. I can't cheer loudly. My parents have even suggested wearing Pistons gear so none of the fans get the wrong impression (seeing as though in the past I have had occurrences with Detroit fans as well).

Re: Ok, just let me have it and get it over with......

But as I told you back in May, your fellow fans are lower than a worm's belly.

Actually, Kstat, you deserve better.

But your fellow fans get the judgment they deserve. Truthfully, they probably deserve and even harsher judgment than they actually receive.

Christmas Day is going to be interesting...

Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
And life itself, rushing over me
Life itself, the wind in black elms,
Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

Re: Ok, just let me have it and get it over with......

F That...I'd walk right up in that spot with my JO jersey on and my hat sideways like I Do ANY game i go to...Miami was ruthless to..so be it...Rep for the fullest...don't let these fans get you.
still unreal..Don't believe it...pistons won't lose anyone...
well they may have lost tonight..but they really won in the division race...

Re: Ok, just let me have it and get it over with......

I have to admit that after seeing this, my first thoughts about this forum were I wondered how you would spin this where Detroit was without fault in this. As a Pacers fan, I appreciate your comments on this.

Before this incident, I loved Ben Wallace-I loved his grit, his determinaton. That is all gone. I know that doesn't matter to most but I now put him right up with the top thugs in the games history.

On Jackson-a bit disappointed in him but being the new guy, I think he was just trying to look out for his team-his actions are still unexcusable.

On Artest-if anything happens him regarding suspensions, I hope the Pacers fight it. I don't condone what he did but he did it in reaction to a myriad of things that escalated too far because there was not enough security or the FAMOUS NBA Security. Where the hell was it? The players were not protected and when you grow up defending yourself on the street most of your life, you get into a fight or flight situation, you don't back down. The NBA failed Ron Artest in this situation.

On the Pistons players-I am disappointed that you didn't do more to help your fellow NBA players and help protect them, on the floor or in the stands.

On Larry Brown-no respect for the guy now. In the press conference he tries to make a joke about the ABA being like this every game. Bull crap. First of all, don't disrespect the ABA like that. Second, this is not the time to crack a joke. Period. He needed to get Wallace off the court right after he struck Artest and did not-and neither did his punk coaching staff.

On Joe Dumars-no respect for him any more either because he's more worried with how ESPN is spinning this regrettable situation than with the internal workings of his team-which should be the only thing he should be worried about. And when does what Steven Smith says become important enough to call him while he is on TV.

On Rick Carlisle-he did great. I can't find any fault with him in this situation and he put it very well when he said that he was "in fear for his life" out there.

On JO-when players run on the court to attack the players they are fair game. Self-defense. No fine or suspension should happen to JO.

Last thing-if any Pacers are charged then I insist that Ben Wallace be charged with the Assault and Battery on Ron Artest as well as inciting a riot.

I would think a five year jail term for Wallace would be acceptable.

Two=the number 2
Too=means "also"
To=many definitions-also known as the one to use when the other 2 (two, too) do not apply.

Their=shows ownership-'it is their house'
They're=they are
There=many definitions-also known as the one to use when the other 2 (their, they're) do not apply

Sorry but it bugs me when these are used incorrectly when I read posts on PacersDigest.com.

Re: Ok, just let me have it and get it over with......

I would argue that Ben did in fact have some effect on the riot.

Ben is the "face-player" for the Pistons franchise. Fans look up to him - see him as their leader. When they see Ben taunting Artest, trying to get him all worked up, throwing wristbands at his face...the fans are going to see this and definitely be influenced by it.

So, when Artest was giving no reaction to Ben's actions...one idiot says "Well...since our leader Ben can't get him going...maybe I can" - and throws a bottle at his head.

Ben is the team leader - you would think he'd set a better example to families/fans/teammates/the league.

Re: Ok, just let me have it and get it over with......

I know that doesn't matter to most but I now put him right up with the top thugs in the games history.

I would think a five year jail term for Wallace would be acceptable.

See, its crap like that.....

OK, I said I was going to take some medicine tonight, but that is absolutely outlandish. I'm giving you 24 hours to come to your sense and edit that, or we're going to agree to diagree.

Ben didn't throw any punches.

Ben didn't go into the stands.

Ben didn't throw any beer.

A hundred players have done what Ben did, and received 1-game suspensions. Its not Ben's fault there were drunken jerks in the stands. I'm REALLY upset at Ben, and BEN is pissed off at himself.

But to say that about Ben is just plain unfair. He started a small altercation, he never did anything to provoke the riot.

That's what I get for complimenting you. You come back and insult my opinion. Let's not forget this is a Pacers forum. Now while your opinions in the past have been respected by others in this forum, as far as I'm concerned don't waste your time over here.

Crap like that? So, it's ok to assault someone on the court if its during a game but not ok in the stands while you're defending yourself? You, young man, have a warped version of reality.

Free Ron Artest
Send Ben Wallace to jail.

Since you obviously didn't get my original point, you most likely never will. Since obviously you disagree with my position, you've said all you have to on this subject.

Two=the number 2
Too=means "also"
To=many definitions-also known as the one to use when the other 2 (two, too) do not apply.

Their=shows ownership-'it is their house'
They're=they are
There=many definitions-also known as the one to use when the other 2 (their, they're) do not apply

Sorry but it bugs me when these are used incorrectly when I read posts on PacersDigest.com.

Re: Ok, just let me have it and get it over with......

I just saw Tom Wilson's interview on ESPN. He's an embarassment to the league right now, and his spin is so disgusting its comical.

Now's the time when he should be scolding his fans - in no uncertain terms - for escalating the situation.

I can't yet get into UB's thread, but I'm 100% in agreement with the notion of banning all in-arena alcohol sales.

Did you see the clip of Larry Brown standing there while the situation was escalating. He looked straight from Hollywood - like a mafia boss inspecting the crime scene to make the job was done right.

Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
And life itself, rushing over me
Life itself, the wind in black elms,
Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

Re: Ok, just let me have it and get it over with......

Ben is the "face-player" for the Pistons franchise. Fans look up to him - see him as their leader. When they see Ben taunting Artest, trying to get him all worked up, throwing wristbands at his face...the fans are going to see this and definitely be influenced by it.

So, when Artest was giving no reaction to Ben's actions...one idiot says "Well...since our leader Ben can't get him going...maybe I can" - and throws a bottle at his head.

Ben is the team leader - you would think he'd set a better example to families/fans/teammates/the league.

I suppose if you're drunk enough or stoned enough that makes sense.

The only reason this escalated was because some jerk was too drunk to know better. That and the fact that security was nowhere to be found. Except for the one who tried to punch Fred and the other one who almost put pepper spray in Ron's face as he was leaving the court.

Re: Ok, just let me have it and get it over with......

I know that doesn't matter to most but I now put him right up with the top thugs in the games history.

I would think a five year jail term for Wallace would be acceptable.

See, its crap like that.....

OK, I said I was going to take some medicine tonight, but that is absolutely outlandish. I'm giving you 24 hours to come to your sense and edit that, or we're going to agree to diagree.

Ben didn't throw any punches.

Ben didn't go into the stands.

Ben didn't throw any beer.

A hundred players have done what Ben did, and received 1-game suspensions. Its not Ben's fault there were drunken jerks in the stands. I'm REALLY upset at Ben, and BEN is pissed off at himself.

But to say that about Ben is just plain unfair. He started a small altercation, he never did anything to provoke the riot.

That's what I get for complimenting you. You come back and insult my opinion. Let's not forget this is a Pacers forum. Now while your opinions in the past have been respected by others in this forum, as far as I'm concerned don't waste your time over here.

Crap like that? So, it's ok to assault someone on the court if its during a game but not ok in the stands while you're defending yourself? You, young man, have a warped version of reality.

Free Ron Artest
Send Ben Wallace to jail.

Since you obviously didn't get my original point, you most likely never will. Since obviously you disagree with my position, you've said all you have to on this subject.

Nope, clearly MY fault for tryign to show a little humility, and you decide to take advantage.

Send Ben Wallace to JAIL? For a shove? Is that a joke?

Did you, or did you not see the replay: RON ATTACKED AN INNOCENT FAN. He was NOT the same guy that hit him with the beer.

Yes, I agree, every "shove" that happens in the NBA should result in jail time

If you cant tell the difference bweteen going into the stands and shoving someone on the court, you just want to start arguments, i suppose......

And for the record, I back Joe D %100. If you look at his comments, he blames EVERYONE for this, and I think he's right. Larry, im still trying to figure out what he said, and as for Rick, a coach is supposed to support his players, big surprise there.

It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

Re: Ok, just let me have it and get it over with......

Kstat, BigMac,

I like both of you... please go to your separate corners and let's try this again tomorrow.

Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
And life itself, rushing over me
Life itself, the wind in black elms,
Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

Re: Ok, just let me have it and get it over with......

Ben is the "face-player" for the Pistons franchise. Fans look up to him - see him as their leader. When they see Ben taunting Artest, trying to get him all worked up, throwing wristbands at his face...the fans are going to see this and definitely be influenced by it.

So, when Artest was giving no reaction to Ben's actions...one idiot says "Well...since our leader Ben can't get him going...maybe I can" - and throws a bottle at his head.

Ben is the team leader - you would think he'd set a better example to families/fans/teammates/the league.

And he's done a GREAT job of it, up until last night....which only baffles me more.

I think he's more than learned his lesson, though. Rest assured he wont do this again.

It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

Re: Ok, just let me have it and get it over with......

On Larry Brown-no respect for the guy now... He needed to get Wallace off the court right after he struck Artest and did not

The man can barely walk after having hip surgery. What did you expect him to do?

Here's what I don't understand about Artest. Somebody knocks him clear across the court, and he does nothing. But when someone spills a beer on him, he goes nuts. I don't fault him for defending himself, but why the sudden loss in self-restraint?

Re: Ok, just let me have it and get it over with......

Lost in all this is the fact that the reason Ben got so worked up in the first place is because Ron, with his team up 15 points and 45 seconds left in the game, committed a hard foul on Ben as he went to the basket.

We see the opposite all the time. Team A dominates team B, frustration builds up, and someone from team B fouls a guy hard as they attempt to score. I don't know that I have EVER seen a team with a commanding lead commit a hard foul like that in the waning moments of a game. Just the opposite, in fact, team tend to get lax on D and the losing team scores a few.

Re: Ok, just let me have it and get it over with......

Lost in all this is the fact that the reason Ben got so worked up in the first place is because Ron, with his team up 15 points and 45 seconds left in the game, committed a hard foul on Ben as he went to the basket.

We see the opposite all the time. Team A dominates team B, frustration builds up, and someone from team B fouls a guy hard as they attempt to score. I don't know that I have EVER seen a team with a commanding lead commit a hard foul like that in the waning moments of a game. Just the opposite, in fact, team tend to get lax on D and the losing team scores a few.

Re: Ok, just let me have it and get it over with......

I'm REALLY upset at Ben, and BEN is pissed off at himself.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Are you his brother KSTAT? So much for humility.
That lasted all of what, one reply?

Ron fouled Wallace after the previous play at the Pacers end Wallace fouled Artest with no call and
Ron ended up in the pad at the goal's base.

I know that the Pacers will get the worst of this by a mile. My question is what is appropriate discipline for the Detroit "fans". I think anyone who threw something and was caught on tape should have their
season tickets revoked. I also think the next time
the Pacers play at Detroit it be in front of an empty
Palace. The gangster mentality finally carried over into the fans and they acted it out.

Re: Ok, just let me have it and get it over with......

I feel like I am repeating myself now. But so many of these threads aren't working.

I don't know what the NBA will do about this, but I would advise fans who sit near the visitors bench to be on your best bevavior and point out those fans who are not, because fans will be thrown out very quickly from now on. And if you sit right behind the visitors bench, be prepared to have your sits moved.

I would expect every NBA arena as we speak is erecting some type of protection around the players tunnel, and added security around the benches. . I would expect NBA arenas to stop all beer sales at the start of the 3rd quarter

Re: Ok, just let me have it and get it over with......

I feel like I am repeating myself now. But so many of these threads aren't working.

I don't know what the NBA will do about this, but I would advise fans who sit near the visitors bench to be on your best bevavior and point out those fans who are not, because fans will be thrown out very quickly from now on. And if you sit right behind the visitors bench, be prepared to have your sits moved.

I would expect every NBA arena as we speak is erecting some type of protection around the players tunnel, and added security around the benches. . I would expect NBA arenas to stop all beer sales at the start of the 3rd quarter

Re: Ok, just let me have it and get it over with......

Lay off people - Kstat has always been one of "us". He is respectful.

Let me say this though Kstat. If Ben had just stopped at the shove and not continued his pursuit things may not have escalated. So he does share responsibility for the whole mess. Having said that, let me buy you a Coke - I'm afraid of beer now.
[edit=18=1100964336][/edit]

The best exercise of the human heart is reaching down and picking someone else up.

Re: Ok, just let me have it and get it over with......

K-Stat. I feel sorry for fans like yourself, there was what maybe 20 thugs who had to much to drink, and they represent the 18-20000 fans who was there. NO It was a very good game and a hard fought one, which most of them are. But I for one would love to ask the people in the big white tower in NY if they could take some one throwing a cup,bottle of beer and hitting them in the face. But most inportant, where were the security. I have watched many re=broadcast, and they were no where to be found. As I said at the beginning I do feel sorry for the good fans in Detroit