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Re: Crisis of faith

Originally Posted by Juniperberry

Outlaw, is it any coincidence that when you were in a relationship and happy with your life that you were also posting on here how sure you were of your beliefs and happiness with your gods? Then you went through a breakup and suddenly you're posting again about (another) crisis of faith.

What is it that you truly expect from the gods? Are your expectations fair?

No, it's not a coincidence. Being with another Wiccan was awesome and helped me walk the path with much more confidence. It also gave me the chance to speak with someone else I trusted face to face about spiritual matters. Now I no longer have that resource (even though we remained friends). While the breakup wasn't the inciting incident, it certainly doesn't help either.

So, metaphorically, while the breakup didn't start the fire, it was the gasoline that helped it along.

My expectations of the gods? Pretty much the same as for anyone who'd want a relationship with me. Be around. Be honest. If you say you're going to do something, do it. Return my calls. Call me sometimes. If you love me, say so. Be patient. (and I know not all gods are patient) Get to know me and don't be afraid in helping me get to know you.

Re: Crisis of faith

Originally Posted by Starglade

Hm. During the couple of decades when I was wiccish, I never had a patron, nor did I think I was supposed to, nor did I feel the need to, nor did anyone tell me I should, nor . . . I'll stop there. Clearly, you believe that pagans should have patrons. Please realize that not all pagans do, nor do all pagans think they should.

If *you* feel you need one, as it seems you do from reading this thread, then I wish you good journeys in finding whoever it is.

I don't believe anyone is supposed to. It's all up to the individual and their beliefs. If they feel they want one, they should seek one. If not, so be it.

I've been seeking a patron for a long time. But honestly this far into the path never thought I'd have to re-seek one, I thought I found him.

Re: Crisis of faith

Originally Posted by outlaw393

My expectations of the gods? Pretty much the same as for anyone who'd want a relationship with me. Be around. Be honest. If you say you're going to do something, do it. Return my calls. Call me sometimes. If you love me, say so. Be patient. (and I know not all gods are patient) Get to know me and don't be afraid in helping me get to know you.

I hope you'll not take offense, but this sounds to me like a surrogate for a normal human relationship.

Re: Crisis of faith

Originally Posted by cigfran

I hope you'll not take offense, but this sounds to me like a surrogate for a normal human relationship.

It's not a replacement for a human relationship. No offense taken. But the point was, that my expectations are about the same. I expect the same from the gods as I would from my human relationships. Though my expectations may be higher, because the gods are capable of more than humans are.

Last edited by outlaw393; 5 Mar 2012 at 09:38 PM.
Reason: Had to reread previous post

Re: Crisis of faith

Originally Posted by outlaw393

It's not a replacement for a human relationship. No offense taken. But the point was, that my expectations are about the same. I expect the same from the gods as I would from my human relationships. Though my expectations may be higher, because the gods are capable of more than humans are.

I've followed this with a bit of passing interest but what your asking for is a pet or to be a pet. It seems a bit arrogaunt to me to even think any god should treat you as if you were in a personal one on one relationship with them. Especially any from the Nordic / Teutonic / Icelandic pantheons where they were more detached from their followers and personal strength seemed to be one of the proving factors in where one went upon death.

I can't think of a single Edda or Saga that shows such a relationship between god / goddess and a practitioner. Perhaps more realistic if one is choosen to be a hero and face great threats and horrible odds with the likelyhood of death as its reward. But then those are always identifed at birth by signs and omens, not simply someone who read some books and says they were choosen.

I wish you luck in your endeavors but I would never live in your world for my gods / goddesses demand strength and an ability to do as they ask but not require them to hold my hand and pat my head.

Re: Crisis of faith

Originally Posted by outlaw393

Well it's up to each individual to find their patron, and if they don't find one, well perhaps they were unable to find whoever it was.

Not necessarily. As Fier said, she doesn't have one. And I don't think she requires one or should be looking for one. The path she treads just means that having a particular deity that hangs out isn't necessary. It just depends on the path that you're on when it comes to patrons.

Re: Crisis of faith

Originally Posted by outlaw393

I read the blog page. I liked it. I know this thing is temporary, but it's always unknown how long it'll last. I've been through these things at least a few times.

Right now I'm feeling like maybe it's best for me to walk away from religion - and the gods - completely. Of course right now is the worst time to lose my faith, and my religion, again. But I'm sure it'll come back to me, in one form or another. It always does. I feel like they've forsaken me. To be clear, this didn't start with Odin, it started with The Goddess.

So I'm thinking I'm going to try something before I walk away, because walking away is my last resort. By contacting only one god and one goddess, I had severely limited my options. I have many more options than just that one god and goddess. I am optimistic that if one let me down and the other doesn't seem to care, that the others might and I might have more luck with them.

Then maybe walking away is a good thing. I went through a phase where I had absolutely nothing to do with religion. My blog reflects this, actually, with a nearly six month period of no posts or very little much else than a "yeah, I'm alive." It was a very hard time in my life, not having anything to rely on. But it was something that I had to go through to get where I am now.

Currently, I am horrifically and morbidly depressed. I ache so badly inside that I want to cry most days. But, if I hadn't gone through my previous crisis of faith, then I wouldn't be able to get through this depressive phase, knowing that Sekhmet is there for me if and when I need her and that she will assist me if/when I ask for it.

Good luck.

Also, a slight comment on the patron thing: I tried really hard to get one for a long time and mucked that all up. The moment I stopped looking is the moment I realized I had been getting messages from Sekhmet all along. Think about it.

Re: Crisis of faith

Originally Posted by outlaw393

No, it's not a coincidence. Being with another Wiccan was awesome and helped me walk the path with much more confidence. It also gave me the chance to speak with someone else I trusted face to face about spiritual matters. Now I no longer have that resource (even though we remained friends). While the breakup wasn't the inciting incident, it certainly doesn't help either.

So, metaphorically, while the breakup didn't start the fire, it was the gasoline that helped it along.

My expectations of the gods? Pretty much the same as for anyone who'd want a relationship with me. Be around. Be honest. If you say you're going to do something, do it. Return my calls. Call me sometimes. If you love me, say so. Be patient. (and I know not all gods are patient) Get to know me and don't be afraid in helping me get to know you.

Those are a few I can think of off the top of my head.

I think you would really find some comfort and peace in Galina's ideas of deity (specifically the Norse). ...If you haven't already?

Re: Crisis of faith

Thanks for the link. Galina Krasskova is so far my favorite author of Heathen books. I have a couple of her books and I enjoy her writing. Her book about Odin that I have is one of my favorite (and my first) books I had about Odin.

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