How did Melinda May get back to civilization? It is supposed to be extremely remote and secret and all. I just don't think she could have walked.

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Originally Posted by Gerryex

Anyone else taken aback when May leaves the secret outpost and just walks out the door. The next time we see her she is walking on a highway with no snow to meet her mom. Did May walk all that way? Wow, she is a fast walker and has great endurance!!!
Gerry

That was my point. Even within the usually unbelievable SHIELD universe I thought this was totally ridiculous!! First we see May walking out of the outpost in a heavy coat and in the snow. And the next time we see her she is walking without a jacket and there's no snow on the ground, and while nothing is explicitly said it seems that very little time passed. Silly!!!

SHIELD, by the way, is an acronym, hence the capitals (more properly S.H.I.E.L.D.). Hydra is just a word.

It's funny, because I do see it written both ways. Even the Wikipedia article on Hydra has it capitalized in the header and just the capital H in the body. But you're definitely correct that Marvel themselves only use the capital H spelling. Now I'm curious where the all-caps version comes from.

If you are the only person on the planet who understands your point, it stands to reason that you haven't expressed your point well, does it not?

If others DO understand your point, but still argue against you, it stands to reason that they believe you are in error, does it not?

3) Many people do understand the simple point, which was clearly expressed, and they agree with it. So they have nothing to post.

I first wrote: "I was surprised that Skye did not think, even for a second, that the traitor might be Melinda. The evidence that it was Ward was quite persuasive, but I did not expect Skye to be so rational about it so quickly."

Later, I responded to the assertion that Skye subconsciously put things together in the few seconds between finding the dead body and saying "Ward" with: "Which is quite an amazing and unusual thing for a person to do so quickly in such a situation, given natural biases, the complexity of the evidence, and the stress of finding a colleague's dead body."

If you think this point was expressed unclearly, we might conjecture that the problem is with your reading comprehension, and not the point as expressed.

As for disagreeing with the point, it is certainly possible that a reasonable person could disagree. Such a person might argue that most people, in Skye's situation, having just freaked out over finding the blood-dripping dead body of a colleague, would have taken only a few seconds to review all the evidence in their head and immediately deduce that the murderer and traitor was the man who, a few minutes ago, they were kissing and telling that he was a good person.

But arguing about the details of the evidence for Ward being the killer is not disagreeing with my point, which, by the way, included the phrase "the evidence that it was Ward was quite persuasive".

3) Many people do understand the simple point, which was clearly expressed, and they agree with it. So they have nothing to post.

4) many people have you on ignore.

5) those who don't have you on ignore recognize the futility of arguing with you.

ETA: most of all, I think you underestimate the number of people who simply don't care. The point you're making is not particularly important. As an audience, we're clearly shown the order of events that leads Skye to realize Ward is a double agent. Whether or not Skye's realization is reasonable and realistic given the time frame is utterly and completely unimportant given a universe with superheroes, gods, and aliens.

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Maybe you can clarify this point for those of us who don't occupy the rarified space in the atmosphere in which you seem to reside.

I responded to the post you made. I can only respond to what you write.

Here, let me make it clearer for you. You said

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Originally Posted by john4200
Which is quite an amazing and unusual thing for a person to do so quickly in such a situation, given natural biases, the complexity of the evidence, and the stress of finding a colleague's dead body. Which was my original point.

I disagree that it's an amazing and unusual thing for a person to do so quickly.

I disagree that the evidence is "complex".

I disagree that the "stress of finding the dead body" would result in Skye being unable to think clearly.

She's demonstrated the ability to think clearly and quickly under pressure in the past, why would you think she would be unable to do so at this juncture?

She saw Ward's blip on the screen. She saw Koenig's blip on the screen. She saw Koenig's dead body. She knew that May was no longer in the base, because May's blip wasn't on the screen. Whoever hid the body did so in such a way that they would have a reasonable expectation that if the body was found they would KNOW it was found. Since May wasn't in the building, Skye could rule her out as a suspect pretty much instantaneously - May would have had no reason to set up the scene that way, since she was gone and wouldn't have cared if anyone found the body.

The only LOGICAL answer is Ward. And you can get to that pretty quickly, even under stress.

Not rocket science.

So, which point did we all miss?

ETA - You sent your post to Ereth while I was composing mine. I didn't miss your point at all. I just completely disagree with the point you made. Not the same thing. And from reading everyone else's replies, I don't think they missed your point either, they just also completely disagree with you.

Most people got the point. It is only you and a few others who missed it, as demonstrated by arguing about the details of the evidence, rather than about the person and the stressful situation.

In your latest post, you seem to be considering making an argument that most people, in Skye's situation, having just freaked out over finding the blood-dripping dead body of a colleague, would have taken only a few seconds to review all the evidence in their head and immediately deduce that the murderer and traitor was the man who, a few minutes ago, they were kissing and telling that he was a good person.

But I did not see much support for such an assertion. You said that Ward was the logical answer. I obviously agree with a rational person concluding that Ward is the prime suspect, as I said as much in my original post. But I see no reason to believe that most people would be so rational, so quickly, in such a situation. In my experience, most people behave irrationally much of the time, even in ordinary circumstances, especially when it involves feelings about people. In stressful circumstances, most people behave even more irrationally. Skye behaved in a manner that was quite unusual for most people.

3) Many people do understand the simple point, which was clearly expressed, and they agree with it. So they have nothing to post.

I first wrote: "I was surprised that Skye did not think, even for a second, that the traitor might be Melinda. The evidence that it was Ward was quite persuasive, but I did not expect Skye to be so rational about it so quickly."

Later, I responded to the assertion that Skye subconsciously put things together in the few seconds between finding the dead body and saying "Ward" with: "Which is quite an amazing and unusual thing for a person to do so quickly in such a situation, given natural biases, the complexity of the evidence, and the stress of finding a colleague's dead body."

If you think this point was expressed unclearly, we might conjecture that the problem is with your reading comprehension, and not the point as expressed.

As for disagreeing with the point, it is certainly possible that a reasonable person could disagree. Such a person might argue that most people, in Skye's situation, having just freaked out over finding the blood-dripping dead body of a colleague, would have taken only a few seconds to review all the evidence in their head and immediately deduce that the murderer and traitor was the man who, a few minutes ago, they were kissing and telling that he was a good person.

But arguing about the details of the evidence for Ward being the killer is not disagreeing with my point, which, by the way, included the phrase "the evidence that it was Ward was quite persuasive".

Speaking of reading comprehension skills...

I didn't respond to your point. Not at all. I responded to your constant "yet another person who miss the point entirely" series of posts.

Arguing that the problem is MY reading comprehension is a complete and total misrepresentation of the facts in evidence. I didn't say one word about your position on the show, only that you seemed to have an awful lot of people who you claimed were missing your point. And instead of trying to make your point clearer, you simply started a tally.

I don't see anything in your response to me on that topic. Can you explain why?

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Please do not "Fixed Your Post" on my posts. I find that rude and annoying. Thank you for your consideration.

Most people got the point. It is only you and a few others who missed it, as demonstrated by arguing about the details of the evidence, rather than about the person and the stressful situation.

Or maybe we just completely disagree with you.

It IS possible to have an opinion counter to yours and be capable of rational thought, hard as that seems to be for you to believe.

Quote:

In your latest post, you seem to be considering making an argument that most people, in Skye's situation, having just freaked out over finding the blood-dripping dead body of a colleague, would have taken only a few seconds to review all the evidence in their head and immediately deduce that the murderer and traitor was the man who, a few minutes ago, they were kissing and telling that he was a good person.

I did nothing of the sort. Your reading comprehension is clearly off. You should read what I wrote again and respond on point, rather than making things up.

I didn't "consider" making any argument about "most people".

I MADE an argument about SKYE'S reaction in Skye's situation.

She's already in a heightened state by dint of the fact that her entire world has been turned upside-down, yet again. She's running on adrenaline and lack of sleep and fear. She's in analytical mode as evidenced by her quick thinking on the satellites and hacking them. She's in her element.

No reason to think she'd turn into a quivering mass of jelly that wouldn't be capable of a reasonable conclusion in a very short span of time.

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But I did not see much support for such an assertion.

I can't help what you can't see. Your lack of sight does not indicate a blindness by someone else.

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You said that Ward was the logical answer. I obviously agree with a rational person concluding that Ward is the prime suspect, as I said as much in my original post. But I see no reason to believe that most people would be so rational, so quickly, in such a situation.

So? I see plenty of reason to believe that Skye (who is NOT "most people") would be so rational, so quickly, in exactly that situation.

In fact, we KNOW she was, because that's exactly the conclusion she came to. Q.E.D.

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In my experience, most people behave irrationally much of the time, even in ordinary circumstances, especially when it involves feelings about people. In stressful circumstances, most people behave even more irrationally. Skye behaved in a manner that was quite unusual for most people.

Skye is not most people, and we have no indication from her previous experiences that she would act like most people. I don't know why you keep insisting she should act the way you think she should act, and if she doesn't, well, clearly it's because the writers did it wrong, rather than you being unable to consider any other position.