This week’s bombing in Manchester, England, was another gruesome reminder that the threat from radical Islamist terrorism is ongoing. And President Trump’s journey to the Middle East illustrated yet again how the country central to the spread of this terrorism, Saudi Arabia, has managed to evade and deflect any responsibility for it. In fact, Trump has given Saudi Arabia a free pass and a free hand in the region.

The facts are well-known. For five decades, Saudi Arabia has spread its narrow, puritanical and intolerant version of Islam — originally practiced almost nowhere else — across the Muslim world. Osama bin Laden was Saudi, as were 15 of the 19 9/11 terrorists.

And we know, via a leaked email from former secretary of state Hillary Clinton, in recent years the Saudi government, along with Qatar, has been “providing clandestine financial and logistic support to [the Islamic State] and other radical Sunni groups in the region.” Saudi nationals make up the second-largest group of foreign fighters in the Islamic State and, by some accounts, the largest in the terrorist group’s Iraqi operations. The kingdom is in a tacit alliance with al-Qaeda in Yemen.

The Islamic State draws its beliefs from Saudi Arabia’s Wahhabi version of Islam...

Saudi money is now transforming European Islam. Leaked German intelligence reports show that charities “closely connected with government offices” of Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Kuwait are funding mosques, schools and imams to disseminate a fundamentalist, intolerant version of Islam throughout Germany.

In Kosovo, the New York Times’ Carlotta Gall describes the process by which a 500-year-old tradition of moderate Islam is being destroyed. “From their bases, the Saudi-trained imams propagated Wahhabism’s tenets: the supremacy of Shariah law as well as ideas of violent jihad and takfirism, which authorizes the killing of Muslims considered heretics for not following its interpretation of Islam.”...

Trump’s speech on Islam was nuanced and showed empathy for the Muslim victims of jihadist terrorism (who make up as much as 95 percent of the total, by one estimate). He seemed to zero in on the problem when he said, “No discussion of stamping out this threat would be complete without mentioning the government that gives terrorists . . . safe harbor, financial backing and the social standing needed for recruitment.”

But Trump was talking not of his host, Saudi Arabia, but rather of Iran. Now, to be clear, Iran is a destabilizing force in the Middle East and supports some very bad actors. But it is wildly inaccurate to describe it as the source of jihadist terror. According to an analysis of the Global Terrorism Database by Leif Wenar of King’s College London, more than 94 percent of deaths caused by Islamic terrorism since 2001 were perpetrated by the Islamic State, al-Qaeda and other Sunni jihadists. Iran is fighting those groups, not fueling them. Almost every terrorist attack in the West has had some connection to Saudi Arabia. Virtually none has been linked to Iran.

Trump has adopted the Saudi line on terrorism, which deflects any blame from the kingdom and redirects it toward Iran. The Saudis showered Trump’s inexperienced negotiators with attention, arms deals and donations to a World Bank fund that Ivanka Trump is championing. (Candidate Trump wrote in a Facebook post in 2016, “Saudi Arabia and many of the countries that gave vast amounts of money to the Clinton Foundation want women as slaves and to kill gays. Hillary must return all money from such countries!”) In short, the Saudis played Trump...

The United States has now signed up for Saudi Arabia’s foreign policy — a relentless series of battles against Shiites and their allies throughout the Middle East. That will enmesh Washington in a never-ending sectarian struggle, fuel regional instability and complicate its ties with countries such as Iraq that want good relations with both sides. But most important, it will do nothing to address the direct and ongoing threat to Americans — jihadist terrorism. I thought that Trump’s foreign policy was going to put America first, not Saudi Arabia.

@CB
When ISIS gets pushed out of Syria and Iraq, where do you think they'll go next? Iran? Hell no. They'll be slaughtered en mass. No, they head for the friendly confines of the KSA. After a brief period which ensues, they realize that KSA's vision of Wahhabism isn't as "pure" as their own--so they take on the House of Saud. Saudi may have billions in arms but I doubt that they have the skill to use them properly. The Israelis know that and the Saudis know what Israel knows. It is my fervent hope that after Raqqa and Mosul have been cleared of ISIS that those soldiers of the so-called Caliphate descend upon KSA like a swarm of locusts. Sun Tsu never quite said this, but I'm sure he would agree: "let's you and him fight".

The KSA has more soldiers, aircraft and money in this country training for war than Israel.
Unfortunately they're being trained to be terrorist. Hopefully it's a curse on them.
If the House of Saud should fall, Israel knows it's time to move or be removed.
There will more likely be a fix for global warming than peace in the middle east.
Potholes ahead.

#1 When ISIS gets pushed out of Syria and Iraq, where do you think they'll go next? Iran? Hell no. They'll be slaughtered en mass. No, they head for the friendly confines of the KSA. After a brief period which ensues, they realize that KSA's vision of Wahhabism isn't as "pure" as their own--so they take on the House of Saud. Saudi may have billions in arms but I doubt that they have the skill to use them properly. The Israelis know that and the Saudis know what Israel knows. It is my fervent hope that after Raqqa and Mosul have been cleared of ISIS that those soldiers of the so-called Caliphate descend upon KSA like a swarm of locusts. Sun Tsu never quite said this, but I'm sure he would agree: "let's you and him fight".

up

20 users have voted.

—

Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

The KSA has more soldiers, aircraft and money in this country training for war than Israel.
Unfortunately they're being trained to be terrorist. Hopefully it's a curse on them.
If the House of Saud should fall, Israel knows it's time to move or be removed.
There will more likely be a fix for global warming than peace in the middle east.
Potholes ahead.

@Alligator Ed
Me thinks that is saud falls, that would be the
"black swan"

amerika is tied to the hip with KSA and will defend it
to it's death, if the house of saud falls, so does the empire

now neither is a bad thing but what exactly
would come next?

#1 When ISIS gets pushed out of Syria and Iraq, where do you think they'll go next? Iran? Hell no. They'll be slaughtered en mass. No, they head for the friendly confines of the KSA. After a brief period which ensues, they realize that KSA's vision of Wahhabism isn't as "pure" as their own--so they take on the House of Saud. Saudi may have billions in arms but I doubt that they have the skill to use them properly. The Israelis know that and the Saudis know what Israel knows. It is my fervent hope that after Raqqa and Mosul have been cleared of ISIS that those soldiers of the so-called Caliphate descend upon KSA like a swarm of locusts. Sun Tsu never quite said this, but I'm sure he would agree: "let's you and him fight".

@Alligator Ed
They know quite well that the monster they created is about to bite them in the ass.
From Medea Benjamin's excellent primer Kingdom of the Unjust:

The Saudis considered AQAP their number one threat until 2014, when AQAP was overshadowed by the Islamic State. Ironically, both groups were heavily influenced by the conservative Saudi ideology, but turned against the Saudi state for being pro-West, practicing rampant consumerism, being corrupt, and having deviated from the true beliefs of Wahhabism.
In 2015, Islamic State leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi announced his intention to expand the Islamic State to the “lands of al-Haramein,” a reference to Mecca and medina. He challenged Saudi leaders’ credentials as defenders of Islam, calling them “the slaves of the Crusaders and allies of the Jews” and accusing them of abandoning Sunni Palestinians, Syrians, Iraqis, and others. He referred to the ruling family as “the serpent’s head” and the “stronghold of the disease,” likening them to the pre-Islamic pagan rulers of Mecca.

#1 When ISIS gets pushed out of Syria and Iraq, where do you think they'll go next? Iran? Hell no. They'll be slaughtered en mass. No, they head for the friendly confines of the KSA. After a brief period which ensues, they realize that KSA's vision of Wahhabism isn't as "pure" as their own--so they take on the House of Saud. Saudi may have billions in arms but I doubt that they have the skill to use them properly. The Israelis know that and the Saudis know what Israel knows. It is my fervent hope that after Raqqa and Mosul have been cleared of ISIS that those soldiers of the so-called Caliphate descend upon KSA like a swarm of locusts. Sun Tsu never quite said this, but I'm sure he would agree: "let's you and him fight".

#1.1
They know quite well that the monster they created is about to bite them in the ass.
From Medea Benjamin's excellent primer Kingdom of the Unjust:

The Saudis considered AQAP their number one threat until 2014, when AQAP was overshadowed by the Islamic State. Ironically, both groups were heavily influenced by the conservative Saudi ideology, but turned against the Saudi state for being pro-West, practicing rampant consumerism, being corrupt, and having deviated from the true beliefs of Wahhabism.
In 2015, Islamic State leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi announced his intention to expand the Islamic State to the “lands of al-Haramein,” a reference to Mecca and medina. He challenged Saudi leaders’ credentials as defenders of Islam, calling them “the slaves of the Crusaders and allies of the Jews” and accusing them of abandoning Sunni Palestinians, Syrians, Iraqis, and others. He referred to the ruling family as “the serpent’s head” and the “stronghold of the disease,” likening them to the pre-Islamic pagan rulers of Mecca.

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5 users have voted.

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The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

@Alligator Ed
I wonder whether they actually would turn on KSA. Interesting.

#1 When ISIS gets pushed out of Syria and Iraq, where do you think they'll go next? Iran? Hell no. They'll be slaughtered en mass. No, they head for the friendly confines of the KSA. After a brief period which ensues, they realize that KSA's vision of Wahhabism isn't as "pure" as their own--so they take on the House of Saud. Saudi may have billions in arms but I doubt that they have the skill to use them properly. The Israelis know that and the Saudis know what Israel knows. It is my fervent hope that after Raqqa and Mosul have been cleared of ISIS that those soldiers of the so-called Caliphate descend upon KSA like a swarm of locusts. Sun Tsu never quite said this, but I'm sure he would agree: "let's you and him fight".

up

1 user has voted.

—

The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal
There's been extremist chatter against the Saudi government for decades. The question is when and how, and those remain to be seen. I personally wish that there was a peace accord made in Syria, with Daesh and Nusra fighters barred from the country, but allowed to go to KSA or maybe Jordan. KSA would never agree though.

@Alligator Ed
I think King Salman lies awake at night thinking of new ways to keep Daesh fighters from coming home. That's been a KSA strategy for a long time, to export the fanatics. They keep producing them as a necessary by-product of Wahhabism, but then they have to get rid of the loud ones before they start pointing out too much of the hypocrisy at home.

KSA sits on a razor's edge socially, and has for a long time.

#1 When ISIS gets pushed out of Syria and Iraq, where do you think they'll go next? Iran? Hell no. They'll be slaughtered en mass. No, they head for the friendly confines of the KSA. After a brief period which ensues, they realize that KSA's vision of Wahhabism isn't as "pure" as their own--so they take on the House of Saud. Saudi may have billions in arms but I doubt that they have the skill to use them properly. The Israelis know that and the Saudis know what Israel knows. It is my fervent hope that after Raqqa and Mosul have been cleared of ISIS that those soldiers of the so-called Caliphate descend upon KSA like a swarm of locusts. Sun Tsu never quite said this, but I'm sure he would agree: "let's you and him fight".

@Pricknick
He has made apologies excuses for the loss of the US manufacturing base. It's inevitable, he says. The only thing inevitable about FZ is the feces emanating from both ends of his gastrointestinal tract.

The only thing inevitable about FZ is the feces emanating from both ends of his gastrointestinal tract.

Spoken like a true reptile.
Thanks for the laugh AE!

#3 He has made apologies excuses for the loss of the US manufacturing base. It's inevitable, he says. The only thing inevitable about FZ is the feces emanating from both ends of his gastrointestinal tract.

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11 users have voted.

—

Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

The Saudis are actually deciding to work with Trump rather than Hillary, which means rather than the Clinton/Bush political machine.

#3 He has made apologies excuses for the loss of the US manufacturing base. It's inevitable, he says. The only thing inevitable about FZ is the feces emanating from both ends of his gastrointestinal tract.

up

4 users have voted.

—

The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

@Pricknick
Everything you say about FZ is true, but that is why it is so surprising that he is willing to speak the unspeakable about KSA. Very, very strange and interesting. It is of non-trivial impact because he has a big audience at CNN. Let's see if he takes the next step and points out that KSA is murdering thousands of civilians in Yemen. If he takes that step we will know that Hell has frozen over.

@Roy Blakeley
See my comment below...could there be trouble between the Saudis and the Clintons? Could it be that they've decided they can work with (and through) Trump just fine?

#3 Everything you say about FZ is true, but that is why it is so surprising that he is willing to speak the unspeakable about KSA. Very, very strange and interesting. It is of non-trivial impact because he has a big audience at CNN. Let's see if he takes the next step and points out that KSA is murdering thousands of civilians in Yemen. If he takes that step we will know that Hell has frozen over.

up

3 users have voted.

—

The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

@Roy Blakeley
I think he's acting like the teenager who's testing his parents' limits, to see how much he can get away with. No way he's prepared to cut the apron strings though. I'd be surprised if he doesn't retreat from this heresy soon enough.

#3 Everything you say about FZ is true, but that is why it is so surprising that he is willing to speak the unspeakable about KSA. Very, very strange and interesting. It is of non-trivial impact because he has a big audience at CNN. Let's see if he takes the next step and points out that KSA is murdering thousands of civilians in Yemen. If he takes that step we will know that Hell has frozen over.

1)He's an establishment shill who has genuinely gotten scared of the way things are going (like anybody with two brain cells should be). So he framed the stuff about the Saudis in a nice establishment "Ain't Donald Awful" frame and WaPo said "Nice. You said Trump was awful," and published it.

2)The CIA, the Clinton political machine, and the neocons are turning on Saudi Arabia. Almost unthinkable, but I noticed since the Trump visit to Saudi Arabia that Samantha Power started throwing around talking points about how horrible it is to sell arms to the Saudis--something that she would ordinarily never say. Generally, the rule is that Saudi Arabia is not discussed. For instance, I bet most Americans don't know that most of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudi Arabian, nor that Osama bin Laden was. When Saudi Arabia is discussed, it's either in very neutral, dry tones, or else as a package deal of "our friends in the ME." Nobody outside of the independent left has been talking about Saudi Arabia and its deeds since Obama took office. There were a few more mainstream Democrats talking about it as part of the "Ain't the Bushes Awful" discussion of a few years past, but it kind of went away with Bush.

To have someone like Samantha Power deliver talking points that look like they could come from, well, here suggested there could be trouble in paradise. I could hardly believe it, but seeing Zakaria publish this in the Post, well...could it be that the Saudis decided they could work with Trump and didn't need the Clintons?

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal
I'd guess it's far more kneejerk "if Trump says left, we say right" bs rather than any sudden awakening. (Or the alternative, that TPTB may have just decided to cut the Saudis out and do who knows what, which doesn't exactly inspire me either.)

1)He's an establishment shill who has genuinely gotten scared of the way things are going (like anybody with two brain cells should be). So he framed the stuff about the Saudis in a nice establishment "Ain't Donald Awful" frame and WaPo said "Nice. You said Trump was awful," and published it.

2)The CIA, the Clinton political machine, and the neocons are turning on Saudi Arabia. Almost unthinkable, but I noticed since the Trump visit to Saudi Arabia that Samantha Power started throwing around talking points about how horrible it is to sell arms to the Saudis--something that she would ordinarily never say. Generally, the rule is that Saudi Arabia is not discussed. For instance, I bet most Americans don't know that most of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudi Arabian, nor that Osama bin Laden was. When Saudi Arabia is discussed, it's either in very neutral, dry tones, or else as a package deal of "our friends in the ME." Nobody outside of the independent left has been talking about Saudi Arabia and its deeds since Obama took office. There were a few more mainstream Democrats talking about it as part of the "Ain't the Bushes Awful" discussion of a few years past, but it kind of went away with Bush.

To have someone like Samantha Power deliver talking points that look like they could come from, well, here suggested there could be trouble in paradise. I could hardly believe it, but seeing Zakaria publish this in the Post, well...could it be that the Saudis decided they could work with Trump and didn't need the Clintons?

@Dr. John Carpenter
what happens to the petrodollar? How far do the elite warmongers feel we could get on empty gas tanks. Frack me if I know.

#3.4 I'd guess it's far more kneejerk "if Trump says left, we say right" bs rather than any sudden awakening. (Or the alternative, that TPTB may have just decided to cut the Saudis out and do who knows what, which doesn't exactly inspire me either.)

@Alligator Ed
could be dumped successfully by the US, we're stuck to them like a parasitic twin, because of the petrodollar.

The only way we could theoretically dump them would be to flip immediately to some new and possibly better source, like say a grand alliance with Russia and Iran, but that's not happening anytime soon, especially in the current climate, and we likely wouldn't be able to call most of the shots, like we do now. I'm guessing we'll be backing King Fishhead and the head-hunters until the dollar collapses, at least.

#3.4.1 what happens to the petrodollar? How far do the elite warmongers feel we could get on empty gas tanks. Frack me if I know.

Saudi Arabia pledges $20 billion to Blackstone for American infrastructure

Saudi Arabia is pledging $20 billion to an American private investment firm to pay for infrastructure projects in the United States.
The firm at the center of the deal, the Blackstone Group (BX), has a close connection to President Trump. Blackstone CEO Steve Schwarzman advises the president on policy issues ranging from trade to infrastructure.

@Amanda Matthews
@
they probably would get the same pass as Chicago's ex mayor got when he sold Illinois' toll roads to the Saudis for a pittance. What they paid for them was not worth what money the state would get if they had kept them. And of course the Saudis raised the price of the toll roads.
He also sold their parking meters to Citibank and it was the same way.
Just the fact that anyone can sell any of our assets to an foreign country should have people in the streets. However, I bet not too many people are even aware of this.

It's not cold, Amanda. I agree with you that this shouldn't be acceptable to anyone. The same can be said of the ISDS which allows foreign companies to sue a city or state if they get in the way of their profits. How that isn't unconstitutional, is mind boggling.

millions in this country

Saudi Arabia pledges $20 billion to Blackstone for American infrastructure

Saudi Arabia is pledging $20 billion to an American private investment firm to pay for infrastructure projects in the United States.
The firm at the center of the deal, the Blackstone Group (BX), has a close connection to President Trump. Blackstone CEO Steve Schwarzman advises the president on policy issues ranging from trade to infrastructure.

@snoopydawg
is an unbelievable story about Sovereign Wealth Funds, these massive, aggressive hedge fund-type cash repositories in the Middle East.

I literally couldn't believe what I was reading. That they were being sold, by American investment bankers, the Pennsylvania Turnpike. Not just that, but a toll highway in Indiana, the Chicago Skyway, stretches of Florida highway, parking meters in Nashville, Pittsburgh, LA and other cities, ports in Virginia, California infrastructure projects.

Couldn't cut and paste any passages, so I'm looking at the chapter in my book.

But did find this epilogue that further talks about this kind of scam that the people of this country either have no idea about or have been so conditioned not to be outraged, and instead have Fox News tell them they should be indignant about welfare recipients.

“Looting Main Street” is about the Jefferson County, Alabama, ﬁnancial disaster, which shows how the same sorts of ﬁnancial scams that undermined Greece were devised and executed in small-town America. Here we’re dealing with crime in the baldest conceivable sense of the word: small-town ofﬁcials literally bribed with cash and gifts to stick taxpayers with billions in crappy, toxic loans. The theft was so overt that in one case, one bank (JPMorgan Chase) actually paid millions toanother bank (Goldman Sachs) to back off the deal—as obvious a case of anticompetitive behavior as you’ll ﬁnd. And again, when disaster strikes, it’s not the bankers who suffer, it’s the ordinary people who live in the Birmingham, Alabama, area who see their city stripped down and sold for parts.

.

About the public's reticence to understand the enormous viciousness of the Economic Terrorists of Wall St's criminality:

...think for instance in comparison about the American attitude toward the sale of drugs. Street dealing is a strictly economic activity voluntarily undertaken by two consenting adults. It’s against the law here, but one could make the argument that that’s purely an accident of history; it’s not illegal everywhere in the world, and selling some of the same drugs one hundred years ago was legal even in this country. But in the last century or so, the sale of narcotics in America has been broadly criminalized and a massive police apparatus has grown up around this now-illegal business, which very conveniently is often the chief commercial activity driving the economies of poor and nonwhite neighborhoods.

That selling drugs and taking drugs is not widely considered inherently wrong is proven by the fact that large majorities of the population,including at least a few presidents, have guiltlessly engaged in the activity. If you’re white and have money, the chances are very good that you smoked pot from high school on and dabbled at least occasionally inharder stuff somewhere along the line. But do you think of yourself as a criminal? Absolutely not. It just happens to be widely understood thata certain type of nonviolent economic activity is technically illegal inour society and if you want to be sure of avoiding punishment for engaging in it, you can’t do it openly if you’re on the campus of Harvardor Penn State, and probably not at all if you live on a heavily patrolledstreet in the Bronx or East St. Louis.

...after the crisis hit, and the whole country was rocked by job losses and foreclosures and soaring commodity prices, the general public was still, overwhelmingly, hesitant to demand punishment forthe people responsible. From coast to coast, the mere suggestion thatpowerful bankers should go to jail for technical infractions like lying to investors and hiding losses and front-running client trades met an im-movable wall of public skepticism. “Are those activities really crimes?” people continually asked. “Isn’t that just being greedy? Can you really put people in jail for trying to make money?”

Again, think of the contrast with drug dealing. Man sells bag of dope on the streets of Harlem; an economic transaction between two consenting adults, with no third-party victims involved anywhere. But when a banker sells a million dollars (or ten or a hundred million dollars) of mismarked mortgage bank securities to a pension fund, youdon’t have two consenting adults. The buyer of the securities is obviously unaware that he’s acquiring an essentially counterfeit property, that his fund is going to lose that money. And there are third-party victims galore; all the pensioners or other investors are going to see their savings disappear.

But people still can’t wrap their heads around the idea that thishighly destructive transaction is a jailable offense. In the extreme formof the argument in defense of the bankers who engaged in that activity, it is said that these deals were legal because it cannot be conclusively proven that the bankers selling this dreck knew that the goods they were trading were worthless and dangerous.

The notion that these bankers didn’t know that what they were selling was toxic is, empirically speaking, absurd on its face—there were pools of mortgages that banks like Goldman were selling where more than 50 percent of the borrowers didn’t show ID when taking out their loans, and other pools where borrowers had collectively put less than 1 percent cash down on nearly a billion dollars of home loans. Not even the dumbest trader could ever genuinely believe that 60 percent or 70 percent of a pool full of borrowers with no ID buying houses with no money down could be investment-grade securities. But the defenders of these bankers still insist that there can’t be a crime without concrete proof of the bankers’ mental state when selling those properties.

Again, imagine a drug dealer busted for selling a bag of Drano instead of heroin arguing, with a straight face, that he didn’t know that his product was harmful to his buyers. Think that would go over well? And let’s say a dozen people end up sick and dying in the hospital because of the stuff he sold: can you imagine anyone arguing that said dealer stillcan’t be prosecuted without proof of his mental state? This is where we are with ﬁnancial crime. Millions of people around the world lost huge chunks of their life savings to these deals, but still we insist that we cannot punish the dealer without knowing for sure what was in his head when he sold us that ﬁnancial Drano.

#4 @
they probably would get the same pass as Chicago's ex mayor got when he sold Illinois' toll roads to the Saudis for a pittance. What they paid for them was not worth what money the state would get if they had kept them. And of course the Saudis raised the price of the toll roads.
He also sold their parking meters to Citibank and it was the same way.
Just the fact that anyone can sell any of our assets to an foreign country should have people in the streets. However, I bet not too many people are even aware of this.

It's not cold, Amanda. I agree with you that this shouldn't be acceptable to anyone. The same can be said of the ISDS which allows foreign companies to sue a city or state if they get in the way of their profits. How that isn't unconstitutional, is mind boggling.

@Mark from Queens
If this is the same type of deals that sunk Greece, then we know what we are in for. And as the article states, this was done behind our backs without our consent. Therefore, we shouldn't have to pay off these MotherF'ckers deals.
But as dkmitch wrote:

Without a real and free press, we will have nothing but war, Trump, and a dying society and planet.

When this crap hits the fan, will that be enough to wake people from their slumber and get them to rise up and overthrow this illegal government that has literally sold our country to the highest bidder?
If the answer is yes, then our window for doing this is rapidly closing because of the militarized police and mercenary contractors on standby ready for us to do this.

#4.1
is an unbelievable story about Sovereign Wealth Funds, these massive, aggressive hedge fund-type cash repositories in the Middle East.

I literally couldn't believe what I was reading. That they were being sold, by American investment bankers, the Pennsylvania Turnpike. Not just that, but a toll highway in Indiana, the Chicago Skyway, stretches of Florida highway, parking meters in Nashville, Pittsburgh, LA and other cities, ports in Virginia, California infrastructure projects.

Couldn't cut and paste any passages, so I'm looking at the chapter in my book.

But did find this epilogue that further talks about this kind of scam that the people of this country either have no idea about or have been so conditioned not to be outraged, and instead have Fox News tell them they should be indignant about welfare recipients.

“Looting Main Street” is about the Jefferson County, Alabama, ﬁnancial disaster, which shows how the same sorts of ﬁnancial scams that undermined Greece were devised and executed in small-town America. Here we’re dealing with crime in the baldest conceivable sense of the word: small-town ofﬁcials literally bribed with cash and gifts to stick taxpayers with billions in crappy, toxic loans. The theft was so overt that in one case, one bank (JPMorgan Chase) actually paid millions toanother bank (Goldman Sachs) to back off the deal—as obvious a case of anticompetitive behavior as you’ll ﬁnd. And again, when disaster strikes, it’s not the bankers who suffer, it’s the ordinary people who live in the Birmingham, Alabama, area who see their city stripped down and sold for parts.

.

About the public's reticence to understand the enormous viciousness of the Economic Terrorists of Wall St's criminality:

...think for instance in comparison about the American attitude toward the sale of drugs. Street dealing is a strictly economic activity voluntarily undertaken by two consenting adults. It’s against the law here, but one could make the argument that that’s purely an accident of history; it’s not illegal everywhere in the world, and selling some of the same drugs one hundred years ago was legal even in this country. But in the last century or so, the sale of narcotics in America has been broadly criminalized and a massive police apparatus has grown up around this now-illegal business, which very conveniently is often the chief commercial activity driving the economies of poor and nonwhite neighborhoods.

That selling drugs and taking drugs is not widely considered inherently wrong is proven by the fact that large majorities of the population,including at least a few presidents, have guiltlessly engaged in the activity. If you’re white and have money, the chances are very good that you smoked pot from high school on and dabbled at least occasionally inharder stuff somewhere along the line. But do you think of yourself as a criminal? Absolutely not. It just happens to be widely understood thata certain type of nonviolent economic activity is technically illegal inour society and if you want to be sure of avoiding punishment for engaging in it, you can’t do it openly if you’re on the campus of Harvardor Penn State, and probably not at all if you live on a heavily patrolledstreet in the Bronx or East St. Louis.

...after the crisis hit, and the whole country was rocked by job losses and foreclosures and soaring commodity prices, the general public was still, overwhelmingly, hesitant to demand punishment forthe people responsible. From coast to coast, the mere suggestion thatpowerful bankers should go to jail for technical infractions like lying to investors and hiding losses and front-running client trades met an im-movable wall of public skepticism. “Are those activities really crimes?” people continually asked. “Isn’t that just being greedy? Can you really put people in jail for trying to make money?”

Again, think of the contrast with drug dealing. Man sells bag of dope on the streets of Harlem; an economic transaction between two consenting adults, with no third-party victims involved anywhere. But when a banker sells a million dollars (or ten or a hundred million dollars) of mismarked mortgage bank securities to a pension fund, youdon’t have two consenting adults. The buyer of the securities is obviously unaware that he’s acquiring an essentially counterfeit property, that his fund is going to lose that money. And there are third-party victims galore; all the pensioners or other investors are going to see their savings disappear.

But people still can’t wrap their heads around the idea that thishighly destructive transaction is a jailable offense. In the extreme formof the argument in defense of the bankers who engaged in that activity, it is said that these deals were legal because it cannot be conclusively proven that the bankers selling this dreck knew that the goods they were trading were worthless and dangerous.

The notion that these bankers didn’t know that what they were selling was toxic is, empirically speaking, absurd on its face—there were pools of mortgages that banks like Goldman were selling where more than 50 percent of the borrowers didn’t show ID when taking out their loans, and other pools where borrowers had collectively put less than 1 percent cash down on nearly a billion dollars of home loans. Not even the dumbest trader could ever genuinely believe that 60 percent or 70 percent of a pool full of borrowers with no ID buying houses with no money down could be investment-grade securities. But the defenders of these bankers still insist that there can’t be a crime without concrete proof of the bankers’ mental state when selling those properties.

Again, imagine a drug dealer busted for selling a bag of Drano instead of heroin arguing, with a straight face, that he didn’t know that his product was harmful to his buyers. Think that would go over well? And let’s say a dozen people end up sick and dying in the hospital because of the stuff he sold: can you imagine anyone arguing that said dealer stillcan’t be prosecuted without proof of his mental state? This is where we are with ﬁnancial crime. Millions of people around the world lost huge chunks of their life savings to these deals, but still we insist that we cannot punish the dealer without knowing for sure what was in his head when he sold us that ﬁnancial Drano.

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You know you’re a peasant when you worship the very people who are right now, this minute, conning you and giving you shit. Whatever the master does, you’re on board. Doh!

@Mark from Queens
and one that really helped open my eyes. I've read it several times and sometimes I do it just for the laugh value he brings to it. Bitter laughter, yes, but he's so right on. I think I've read most of his and just finished a re-read of "Insane Clown President" as I needed the laughs. That one is tough because he really was in many ways too sympathetic to Shillary. But he was in their bubble while he was writing what is in it, and they just refuse to see truth when it's staring them right in the face. As bad as the most ignorant of the Tea Bags ever were.

#4.1
is an unbelievable story about Sovereign Wealth Funds, these massive, aggressive hedge fund-type cash repositories in the Middle East.

I literally couldn't believe what I was reading. That they were being sold, by American investment bankers, the Pennsylvania Turnpike. Not just that, but a toll highway in Indiana, the Chicago Skyway, stretches of Florida highway, parking meters in Nashville, Pittsburgh, LA and other cities, ports in Virginia, California infrastructure projects.

Couldn't cut and paste any passages, so I'm looking at the chapter in my book.

But did find this epilogue that further talks about this kind of scam that the people of this country either have no idea about or have been so conditioned not to be outraged, and instead have Fox News tell them they should be indignant about welfare recipients.

“Looting Main Street” is about the Jefferson County, Alabama, ﬁnancial disaster, which shows how the same sorts of ﬁnancial scams that undermined Greece were devised and executed in small-town America. Here we’re dealing with crime in the baldest conceivable sense of the word: small-town ofﬁcials literally bribed with cash and gifts to stick taxpayers with billions in crappy, toxic loans. The theft was so overt that in one case, one bank (JPMorgan Chase) actually paid millions toanother bank (Goldman Sachs) to back off the deal—as obvious a case of anticompetitive behavior as you’ll ﬁnd. And again, when disaster strikes, it’s not the bankers who suffer, it’s the ordinary people who live in the Birmingham, Alabama, area who see their city stripped down and sold for parts.

.

About the public's reticence to understand the enormous viciousness of the Economic Terrorists of Wall St's criminality:

...think for instance in comparison about the American attitude toward the sale of drugs. Street dealing is a strictly economic activity voluntarily undertaken by two consenting adults. It’s against the law here, but one could make the argument that that’s purely an accident of history; it’s not illegal everywhere in the world, and selling some of the same drugs one hundred years ago was legal even in this country. But in the last century or so, the sale of narcotics in America has been broadly criminalized and a massive police apparatus has grown up around this now-illegal business, which very conveniently is often the chief commercial activity driving the economies of poor and nonwhite neighborhoods.

That selling drugs and taking drugs is not widely considered inherently wrong is proven by the fact that large majorities of the population,including at least a few presidents, have guiltlessly engaged in the activity. If you’re white and have money, the chances are very good that you smoked pot from high school on and dabbled at least occasionally inharder stuff somewhere along the line. But do you think of yourself as a criminal? Absolutely not. It just happens to be widely understood thata certain type of nonviolent economic activity is technically illegal inour society and if you want to be sure of avoiding punishment for engaging in it, you can’t do it openly if you’re on the campus of Harvardor Penn State, and probably not at all if you live on a heavily patrolledstreet in the Bronx or East St. Louis.

...after the crisis hit, and the whole country was rocked by job losses and foreclosures and soaring commodity prices, the general public was still, overwhelmingly, hesitant to demand punishment forthe people responsible. From coast to coast, the mere suggestion thatpowerful bankers should go to jail for technical infractions like lying to investors and hiding losses and front-running client trades met an im-movable wall of public skepticism. “Are those activities really crimes?” people continually asked. “Isn’t that just being greedy? Can you really put people in jail for trying to make money?”

Again, think of the contrast with drug dealing. Man sells bag of dope on the streets of Harlem; an economic transaction between two consenting adults, with no third-party victims involved anywhere. But when a banker sells a million dollars (or ten or a hundred million dollars) of mismarked mortgage bank securities to a pension fund, youdon’t have two consenting adults. The buyer of the securities is obviously unaware that he’s acquiring an essentially counterfeit property, that his fund is going to lose that money. And there are third-party victims galore; all the pensioners or other investors are going to see their savings disappear.

But people still can’t wrap their heads around the idea that thishighly destructive transaction is a jailable offense. In the extreme formof the argument in defense of the bankers who engaged in that activity, it is said that these deals were legal because it cannot be conclusively proven that the bankers selling this dreck knew that the goods they were trading were worthless and dangerous.

The notion that these bankers didn’t know that what they were selling was toxic is, empirically speaking, absurd on its face—there were pools of mortgages that banks like Goldman were selling where more than 50 percent of the borrowers didn’t show ID when taking out their loans, and other pools where borrowers had collectively put less than 1 percent cash down on nearly a billion dollars of home loans. Not even the dumbest trader could ever genuinely believe that 60 percent or 70 percent of a pool full of borrowers with no ID buying houses with no money down could be investment-grade securities. But the defenders of these bankers still insist that there can’t be a crime without concrete proof of the bankers’ mental state when selling those properties.

Again, imagine a drug dealer busted for selling a bag of Drano instead of heroin arguing, with a straight face, that he didn’t know that his product was harmful to his buyers. Think that would go over well? And let’s say a dozen people end up sick and dying in the hospital because of the stuff he sold: can you imagine anyone arguing that said dealer stillcan’t be prosecuted without proof of his mental state? This is where we are with ﬁnancial crime. Millions of people around the world lost huge chunks of their life savings to these deals, but still we insist that we cannot punish the dealer without knowing for sure what was in his head when he sold us that ﬁnancial Drano.

@snoopydawg
I'm in the Chicago area, so I know about these events. The Chicago Skyway is the only tollway in the state that is privatized. The rest of them are property of the state. (The Indiana Toll Road is privatized, however.) Governor Assbag Rauner does want to privatize part of one of the expressways (by adding privately owned toll lanes next to the existing free lanes. Yes, that is as stupid as it sounds.)

And Mayor Daley got anything but a free pass for selling off the parking meters. That deal is probably one of the worst in city history and there was considerable outrage at the time. There's still plenty of outrage. I'm sure you are all stunned that the money from the lump-sum payment the city received is long gone. That deal was a big part of the reason Daley became so unpopular and didn't run for another term. It was such a debacle that Rahm Emanuel pulled the plug on the in-the-works plan to privatize Midway Airport. (Okay, maybe one good thing came out of the parking meter deal. : ) )

Maybe one day I'll remember to fill in the subject line right off the bat. Heh.

#4 @
they probably would get the same pass as Chicago's ex mayor got when he sold Illinois' toll roads to the Saudis for a pittance. What they paid for them was not worth what money the state would get if they had kept them. And of course the Saudis raised the price of the toll roads.
He also sold their parking meters to Citibank and it was the same way.
Just the fact that anyone can sell any of our assets to an foreign country should have people in the streets. However, I bet not too many people are even aware of this.

It's not cold, Amanda. I agree with you that this shouldn't be acceptable to anyone. The same can be said of the ISDS which allows foreign companies to sue a city or state if they get in the way of their profits. How that isn't unconstitutional, is mind boggling.

@Sister Havana
I couldn't remember it was Daley who was the mayor of Chicago that did these deals. At least you were able to stop Obama's buddy Rahm for doing more damage to your state.
These things SHOULD BE left to the voters to decide, but hey, where is the money for those asswipes that will sell our country to the highest bidder?

#4.1 I'm in the Chicago area, so I know about these events. The Chicago Skyway is the only tollway in the state that is privatized. The rest of them are property of the state. (The Indiana Toll Road is privatized, however.) Governor Assbag Rauner does want to privatize part of one of the expressways (by adding privately owned toll lanes next to the existing free lanes. Yes, that is as stupid as it sounds.)

And Mayor Daley got anything but a free pass for selling off the parking meters. That deal is probably one of the worst in city history and there was considerable outrage at the time. There's still plenty of outrage. I'm sure you are all stunned that the money from the lump-sum payment the city received is long gone. That deal was a big part of the reason Daley became so unpopular and didn't run for another term. It was such a debacle that Rahm Emanuel pulled the plug on the in-the-works plan to privatize Midway Airport. (Okay, maybe one good thing came out of the parking meter deal. : ) )

Maybe one day I'll remember to fill in the subject line right off the bat. Heh.

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5 users have voted.

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You know you’re a peasant when you worship the very people who are right now, this minute, conning you and giving you shit. Whatever the master does, you’re on board. Doh!

Saudi Arabia pledges $20 billion to Blackstone for American infrastructure

Saudi Arabia is pledging $20 billion to an American private investment firm to pay for infrastructure projects in the United States.
The firm at the center of the deal, the Blackstone Group (BX), has a close connection to President Trump. Blackstone CEO Steve Schwarzman advises the president on policy issues ranging from trade to infrastructure.

@Amanda Matthews
So many of these same people fretting about foreign infiltration and influence on our government are all too happy to carve up vital infrastructure and sell it off to whatever foreign entity offers them the best looking deal. I can't be alone in seeing the hypocrisy there.

millions in this country

Saudi Arabia pledges $20 billion to Blackstone for American infrastructure

Saudi Arabia is pledging $20 billion to an American private investment firm to pay for infrastructure projects in the United States.
The firm at the center of the deal, the Blackstone Group (BX), has a close connection to President Trump. Blackstone CEO Steve Schwarzman advises the president on policy issues ranging from trade to infrastructure.

@Amanda Matthews
its not cold at all, its nothing less then they'd do to us, nothing less than they ARE doing to us really. Cigarette and blindfold, love it!

millions in this country

Saudi Arabia pledges $20 billion to Blackstone for American infrastructure

Saudi Arabia is pledging $20 billion to an American private investment firm to pay for infrastructure projects in the United States.
The firm at the center of the deal, the Blackstone Group (BX), has a close connection to President Trump. Blackstone CEO Steve Schwarzman advises the president on policy issues ranging from trade to infrastructure.

@Amanda Matthews
Wait a minute...Trump sold the Saudis our infrastructure? The 20 billion wasn't part of the arms deal?

millions in this country

Saudi Arabia pledges $20 billion to Blackstone for American infrastructure

Saudi Arabia is pledging $20 billion to an American private investment firm to pay for infrastructure projects in the United States.
The firm at the center of the deal, the Blackstone Group (BX), has a close connection to President Trump. Blackstone CEO Steve Schwarzman advises the president on policy issues ranging from trade to infrastructure.

@Amanda Matthews
Wow, no, went through and read the article...he is selling off our infrastructure. Well, anything to avoid raising taxes on the rich, am I right?

millions in this country

Saudi Arabia pledges $20 billion to Blackstone for American infrastructure

Saudi Arabia is pledging $20 billion to an American private investment firm to pay for infrastructure projects in the United States.
The firm at the center of the deal, the Blackstone Group (BX), has a close connection to President Trump. Blackstone CEO Steve Schwarzman advises the president on policy issues ranging from trade to infrastructure.

Fareed Zakaria, being a repulsive piece of news slime, has partially redeemed himself today. Not because he happened to repeat a geopolitical fact that has been a known known for over 25 years, but because he is apparently simple minded. He just didn't know and is too mentally impaired to analyze. "Eureka!" he says:

The United States has now signed up for Saudi Arabia’s foreign policy — a relentless series of battles against Shiites and their allies throughout the Middle East.

When there is a Muslim terrorist attack in the US, any thinking person is instantly aware that it was executed by a Sunni. Why? Because they always are.

It's true that the Sunnis and Mossad must do something to force Americans to throw their wealth down the black hole of the Middle East, while snatching food out of their own children's mouths. Small terrorist attacks inside the US seem to work best. The People never, ever figure out that their Sunni allies are the terrorists. Hahaha. And the news media never tells them. This just never gets old.

Now, here's stupid Fareed thinking the US has only just now "signed up" to exterminate the Shia throughout the Middle East, on behalf of Israel and the Saudis. Only just now, bless his heart. This entire time I thought Fareed was deliberately lying about why the US was in the Middle East, when he was actually handicapped by a brain the size of a pea.

How easy it is to judge unfairly. I feel bad.

What if all of his nasty smears and subversive lies about Russia are just stupidity, too?

Self pity is what Fareed lives on. He may feel true pity but his fortune depends on those who sympathize with him.
We now return to his regularly scheduled bullshit.

Fareed Zakaria, being a repulsive piece of news slime, has partially redeemed himself today. Not because he happened to repeat a geopolitical fact that has been a known known for over 25 years, but because he is apparently simple minded. He just didn't know and is too mentally impaired to analyze. "Eureka!" he says:

The United States has now signed up for Saudi Arabia’s foreign policy — a relentless series of battles against Shiites and their allies throughout the Middle East.

When there is a Muslim terrorist attack in the US, any thinking person is instantly aware that it was executed by a Sunni. Why? Because they always are.

It's true that the Sunnis and Mossad must do something to force Americans to throw their wealth down the black hole of the Middle East, while snatching food out of their own children's mouths. Small terrorist attacks inside the US seem to work best. The People never, ever figure out that their Sunni allies are the terrorists. Hahaha. And the news media never tells them. This just never gets old.

Now, here's stupid Fareed thinking the US has only just now "signed up" to exterminate the Shia throughout the Middle East, on behalf of Israel and the Saudis. Only just now, bless his heart. This entire time I thought Fareed was deliberately lying about why the US was in the Middle East, when he was actually handicapped by a brain the size of a pea.

How easy it is to judge unfairly. I feel bad.

What if all of his nasty smears and subversive lies about Russia are just stupidity, too?

up

20 users have voted.

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Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

Fareed Zakaria, being a repulsive piece of news slime, has partially redeemed himself today. Not because he happened to repeat a geopolitical fact that has been a known known for over 25 years, but because he is apparently simple minded. He just didn't know and is too mentally impaired to analyze. "Eureka!" he says:

The United States has now signed up for Saudi Arabia’s foreign policy — a relentless series of battles against Shiites and their allies throughout the Middle East.

When there is a Muslim terrorist attack in the US, any thinking person is instantly aware that it was executed by a Sunni. Why? Because they always are.

It's true that the Sunnis and Mossad must do something to force Americans to throw their wealth down the black hole of the Middle East, while snatching food out of their own children's mouths. Small terrorist attacks inside the US seem to work best. The People never, ever figure out that their Sunni allies are the terrorists. Hahaha. And the news media never tells them. This just never gets old.

Now, here's stupid Fareed thinking the US has only just now "signed up" to exterminate the Shia throughout the Middle East, on behalf of Israel and the Saudis. Only just now, bless his heart. This entire time I thought Fareed was deliberately lying about why the US was in the Middle East, when he was actually handicapped by a brain the size of a pea.

How easy it is to judge unfairly. I feel bad.

What if all of his nasty smears and subversive lies about Russia are just stupidity, too?

up

19 users have voted.

—

"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott

@Steven D
Pretty sure that your remark is exactly the reason Fareed had this 'epiphany' moment. "Oh, Saudi is bad!" The Trump resistance overruled the up-to-now, Saudi ally. The reason this is no big deal, is a day from now, he and his ilk can still flip-flop again on SA, back to "friends" and their mindless cheerleaders will never notice the difference.

@ChezJfrey@ChezJfrey
I think there might be an actual shift happening in relations between the Clintons/Bushes and the Saudis, reflected in Zakaria's, um, a-ha moment:

#5.2 Pretty sure that your remark is exactly the reason Fareed had this 'epiphany' moment. "Oh, Saudi is bad!" The Trump resistance overruled the up-to-now, Saudi ally. The reason this is no big deal, is a day from now, he and his ilk can still flip-flop again on SA, back to "friends" and their mindless cheerleaders will never notice the difference.

up

3 users have voted.

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The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

the biggest threat to their safety and Trump being friendly with the Saudis? That has to be very confusing to their convoluted thinking, don't you think?
It's not just the Saudis who are responsible for terrorists, our government has its hands dirty too. Let's not forget that we created Al Qaida a in Afghanistan to help fight the Russians, and Obama with help from McCain, armed and funded the 'moderate' Syrian rebels who happen to be a group of Al Qaida. As gjohn stated in his essay, it depends on which country they are in. In one country, they are our allies, in another, they are our enemies. Kinda hard to keep track.

I hope the information on the connection of Hillary and Obama's excellent adventure of using terrorists to help overthrow Assad were the same group that set up the suicide bomber in Manchester gets out.

Last Monday, jihadi suicide bomber Salman Abedi blew himself up at an Ariana Grande concert in Manchester, England, killing 22 people. Salman grew up in an anit-Qaddafi Libyan immigrant family. In 2011, his father, Ramadan Abedi, along with other British Libyans (including one who was under house arrest), “was allowed to go [to Libya], no questions asked,” to join the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG), an al-Qaeda-affiliate, to help overthrow Qaddafi. In Manchester, as Max Blumenthal puts it, in his excellent Alternet piece (http://www.alternet.org/grayzone-project/manchester-bombing-covert-proxy...), it was all “part of the rat line operated by the MI5, which hustled anti-Qaddafi Libyan exiles to the front lines of the war.” In Manchester, Salman lived near a number of LIFG militants, including an expert bomb maker. This was a tough bunch, and everybody—including the cops and Salman’s Muslim neighbors—knew they weren’t the Jets and the Sharks. As Middle East Eye reports, he “was known to security services,” and some of his acquaintances “had reported him to the police via an anti-terrorism hotline.”

~~snip~~

Too bad more people in Britain and the West hadn’t paid attention to what happened in Mali two years ago. Too bad they hadn’t thought too much about the chain of jihadi proxy interventions that the United States and its allies, or about the connection with the chain of jihadi attacks in Western countries. Too bad they hadn’t recognized the continuing arrogance of the Western (U.S./NATO) and Middle Eastern (Gulf, Israel) powers who think they can unleash and re-leash these jihadi fighters at will. Too bad they don’t understand the contradiction between mourning the bombing of Manchester and crying for the bombing of Syria.

@snoopydawg
The voters in this country are well practiced in the kind of mental gymnastics required to participate in the duopoly. I think by now people are so used to a politician doing or supporting something directly opposed to their stated beliefs, it just rolls right past them.

Alternately, don't forget Saudis are "the good ones", that is if people even recognize them as Islamic in the first place. Corporate news tends to confuse the matter when it's advantageous to do so.

the biggest threat to their safety and Trump being friendly with the Saudis? That has to be very confusing to their convoluted thinking, don't you think?
It's not just the Saudis who are responsible for terrorists, our government has its hands dirty too. Let's not forget that we created Al Qaida a in Afghanistan to help fight the Russians, and Obama with help from McCain, armed and funded the 'moderate' Syrian rebels who happen to be a group of Al Qaida. As gjohn stated in his essay, it depends on which country they are in. In one country, they are our allies, in another, they are our enemies. Kinda hard to keep track.

I hope the information on the connection of Hillary and Obama's excellent adventure of using terrorists to help overthrow Assad were the same group that set up the suicide bomber in Manchester gets out.

Last Monday, jihadi suicide bomber Salman Abedi blew himself up at an Ariana Grande concert in Manchester, England, killing 22 people. Salman grew up in an anit-Qaddafi Libyan immigrant family. In 2011, his father, Ramadan Abedi, along with other British Libyans (including one who was under house arrest), “was allowed to go [to Libya], no questions asked,” to join the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG), an al-Qaeda-affiliate, to help overthrow Qaddafi. In Manchester, as Max Blumenthal puts it, in his excellent Alternet piece (http://www.alternet.org/grayzone-project/manchester-bombing-covert-proxy...), it was all “part of the rat line operated by the MI5, which hustled anti-Qaddafi Libyan exiles to the front lines of the war.” In Manchester, Salman lived near a number of LIFG militants, including an expert bomb maker. This was a tough bunch, and everybody—including the cops and Salman’s Muslim neighbors—knew they weren’t the Jets and the Sharks. As Middle East Eye reports, he “was known to security services,” and some of his acquaintances “had reported him to the police via an anti-terrorism hotline.”

~~snip~~

Too bad more people in Britain and the West hadn’t paid attention to what happened in Mali two years ago. Too bad they hadn’t thought too much about the chain of jihadi proxy interventions that the United States and its allies, or about the connection with the chain of jihadi attacks in Western countries. Too bad they hadn’t recognized the continuing arrogance of the Western (U.S./NATO) and Middle Eastern (Gulf, Israel) powers who think they can unleash and re-leash these jihadi fighters at will. Too bad they don’t understand the contradiction between mourning the bombing of Manchester and crying for the bombing of Syria.

@Dr. John Carpenter@Dr. John Carpenter
Not really. The propaganda is not actually going very well. The reason we're all horrified is that the propaganda is such shit that it should not be going well at all.

But 37% of the American population believing the Russia bullshit is not exactly a good result. A good result is 70% of the American people believing that Saddam Hussein bombed us on 9/11.

#6 The voters in this country are well practiced in the kind of mental gymnastics required to participate in the duopoly. I think by now people are so used to a politician doing or supporting something directly opposed to their stated beliefs, it just rolls right past them.

Alternately, don't forget Saudis are "the good ones", that is if people even recognize them as Islamic in the first place. Corporate news tends to confuse the matter when it's advantageous to do so.

up

3 users have voted.

—

The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

Here's a picture of McCain and Graham meeting with the leader of ISIS.
Sens John McCain and Lindsey Graham with Libyan Islamic Fighting Group leader Abdelhakim Belhaj
This is McCain with different members of terrorist groups
Why isn't this treason? Actually, it is. But who is going to bring charges against him or the many, many other people who have done what McCain did?
The video gulfgal posted that showed the Clintons, Obama, Petrayous and others running weapons, including the sarin gas from the Benghazi embassy that was used on Syrians, showed how evil the people who decides who lives or dies are.

up

23 users have voted.

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You know you’re a peasant when you worship the very people who are right now, this minute, conning you and giving you shit. Whatever the master does, you’re on board. Doh!

@snoopydawg
Why hasn't the now senile Songbird from the Hanoi Hilton been arrested yet? But then again, why haven't Obama, Killary, Podesta, and Bubba been arrested yet? Why? Why? Why? I feel like a 3 year old asking for answers. That's where TPTB want us--dumb, blind and stupid--just pay your taxes and STFU.

Here's a picture of McCain and Graham meeting with the leader of ISIS.
Sens John McCain and Lindsey Graham with Libyan Islamic Fighting Group leader Abdelhakim Belhaj
This is McCain with different members of terrorist groups
Why isn't this treason? Actually, it is. But who is going to bring charges against him or the many, many other people who have done what McCain did?
The video gulfgal posted that showed the Clintons, Obama, Petrayous and others running weapons, including the sarin gas from the Benghazi embassy that was used on Syrians, showed how evil the people who decides who lives or dies are.

@Alligator Ed
war crimes. There should be an avenue for us to withhold our taxes from our government so that our money doesn't pay for the corporation's wars. And the only way for us to get control of our government is rapidly closing. They are passing laws that will make it illegal for us to protest our government. The Supreme Court passed legislation making it more difficult to hold the police accountable for their actions or if they do anything that goes against our constitutional rights. The police now have the power to go into everyone's homes without a warrant, injure or kill us and nothing will happen to them. This goes against both our 3rd and 4th amendment rights. The 3rd was already on life support because of the drug war, and the 4th has also been on life support because of the war on terror and the Patriot and military commission acts.
We saw what happened at the DAPL protests. Wall Street and the investors of the pipeline, including foreign investors, were able to hire a private mercenary contractor to protect their investment.
How that was legal, is beyond me. It's another way to get around Posse comitatus. It too is on life support because they militarized the police.
Sorry for going on a rant. I'm just so tired of seeing innocent civilians' lives not counting to the psychopaths that make our foreign policies.
Did you have a chance to watch the video that gulfgal posted in your essay? The connection between Hillary's foundation, her state department and people in government who don't give a rat's ass for people who live on top of resources that the corporations want was eye opening. I don't understand how people can be that ruthless.
Hopefully you will have a chance to read the articles I posted links to.http://www.alternet.org/grayzone-project/manchester-bombing-covert-proxy...
I just read this article and I want to see these people in prison. Or Gitmo. Now that would be ironic.

#7 Why hasn't the now senile Songbird from the Hanoi Hilton been arrested yet? But then again, why haven't Obama, Killary, Podesta, and Bubba been arrested yet? Why? Why? Why? I feel like a 3 year old asking for answers. That's where TPTB want us--dumb, blind and stupid--just pay your taxes and STFU.

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24 users have voted.

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You know you’re a peasant when you worship the very people who are right now, this minute, conning you and giving you shit. Whatever the master does, you’re on board. Doh!

of terrorism in the West, Africa, the Middle East, India, Phillipines, etc.

Iran... The only big terrorist act on the last generation I can think of was bombing a synagogue in South America, and even that is s claim based on the report of the terrorist group fighting the Iranians.

Astonished to see someone in mainstream actually pushing reality! Of course Iran's biggest crime is being allied with Russia, and Russia is the real target.

Now, will some MSM figure get around to mentioning the practical aid we are giving the Sauds in their genocide in Yemen?

@jim p
1. FZ has got new sponsors, so he is now talking out of the other side of his mouth

2. Truth-telling will not infect the MSM until they are completely bereft of influence.

of terrorism in the West, Africa, the Middle East, India, Phillipines, etc.

Iran... The only big terrorist act on the last generation I can think of was bombing a synagogue in South America, and even that is s claim based on the report of the terrorist group fighting the Iranians.

Astonished to see someone in mainstream actually pushing reality! Of course Iran's biggest crime is being allied with Russia, and Russia is the real target.

Now, will some MSM figure get around to mentioning the practical aid we are giving the Sauds in their genocide in Yemen?

Russian President Vladimir Putin, in an interview with French publication Le Figaro, has revealed that a US president is more often than not just a figurehead of government. A certain person may be elected by the public on the basis of his merit and ideals – but rarely is this person able to formulate policy. Putin explained

He must lie to the people and work against their wellbeing. This has been the reality since Reagan, evident in every social or economic metric. The people can hardly bring themselves to vote. Dystopia has taken hold.

The American people do not want a great society. This is the era of the individual. That seems to be well reflected in the presidents that are selected for them.

Putin explained that the ‘bureaucracy’ in the US, which is more commonly known as the Deep State, is very powerful and as such does not allow any real change in direction.

“Presidents come and go, but the politics remains the same.” As such, an individual, who may have his own genuine ideas, is elected into the White House only to satisfy the illusion of a democratic process taking place. In reality, “men in dark suits”, who remain anonymous to the voting public, continue to pursue the well-established interests of the US elite with each incoming administration.

Americans should stop worrying so much. They will never have a president like Putin.

Published on May 31, 2017

Russian President Vladimir Putin, in an interview with French publication Le Figaro, has revealed that a US president is more often than not just a figurehead of government. A certain person may be elected by the public on the basis of his merit and ideals – but rarely is this person able to formulate policy. Putin explained

@Pluto's Republic
but I can't help but wonder just what the Rump is going to look like if he makes it through 4 years. They all age, tremendously some of them, during their terms and looking at a picture of the Rump today he's not looking too great.

And you're so right, all that lying and triangulating apparently takes a big toll on them. Good, they deserve to not only look older but feel older.

He must lie to the people and work against their wellbeing. This has been the reality since Reagan, evident in every social or economic metric. The people can hardly bring themselves to vote. Dystopia has taken hold.

The American people do not want a great society. This is the era of the individual. That seems to be well reflected in the presidents that are selected for them.

Putin explained that the ‘bureaucracy’ in the US, which is more commonly known as the Deep State, is very powerful and as such does not allow any real change in direction.

“Presidents come and go, but the politics remains the same.” As such, an individual, who may have his own genuine ideas, is elected into the White House only to satisfy the illusion of a democratic process taking place. In reality, “men in dark suits”, who remain anonymous to the voting public, continue to pursue the well-established interests of the US elite with each incoming administration.

Americans should stop worrying so much. They will never have a president like Putin.

@lizzyh7
She still thinks she's president and it's really been hard on her (cough, cough)

#10.1 but I can't help but wonder just what the Rump is going to look like if he makes it through 4 years. They all age, tremendously some of them, during their terms and looking at a picture of the Rump today he's not looking too great.

And you're so right, all that lying and triangulating apparently takes a big toll on them. Good, they deserve to not only look older but feel older.

@Pluto's Republic
The American people don't want a great society? This is the era of the individual?

No, that was the 80s and 90s. They kept it artificially alive by using 9/11 to rally everyone behind a sociopath because some people slaughtered about 3,000 of our civilians, many of whom had nothing to do with the decisions which caused them to want to bomb us in the first place.

But no. Since 2008, it emphatically hasn't been the age of the individual. OTOH, the American people no longer believe a great society is possible.

He must lie to the people and work against their wellbeing. This has been the reality since Reagan, evident in every social or economic metric. The people can hardly bring themselves to vote. Dystopia has taken hold.

The American people do not want a great society. This is the era of the individual. That seems to be well reflected in the presidents that are selected for them.

Putin explained that the ‘bureaucracy’ in the US, which is more commonly known as the Deep State, is very powerful and as such does not allow any real change in direction.

“Presidents come and go, but the politics remains the same.” As such, an individual, who may have his own genuine ideas, is elected into the White House only to satisfy the illusion of a democratic process taking place. In reality, “men in dark suits”, who remain anonymous to the voting public, continue to pursue the well-established interests of the US elite with each incoming administration.

Americans should stop worrying so much. They will never have a president like Putin.

up

4 users have voted.

—

The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

… which is different than "the Individual" era. The individual is the libertarian bootstrapper. It's what the Republicans want the poor and disabled to become. Miracle bootstrappers without a bit of assistance and starvation if they fail. A Great Society would simply take care of them and help them achieve their dreams. But Americans have learned that Great Societies are weak, like Norway, and they cost money. They don't want to be a society, or even a nation for that matter.

#10.1 The American people don't want a great society? This is the era of the individual?

No, that was the 80s and 90s. They kept it artificially alive by using 9/11 to rally everyone behind a sociopath because some people slaughtered about 3,000 of our civilians, many of whom had nothing to do with the decisions which caused them to want to bomb us in the first place.

But no. Since 2008, it emphatically hasn't been the age of the individual. OTOH, the American people no longer believe a great society is possible.

… which is different than "the Individual" era. The individual is the libertarian bootstrapper. It's what the Republicans want the poor and disabled to become. Miracle bootstrappers without a bit of assistance and starvation if they fail. A Great Society would simply take care of them and help them achieve their dreams. But Americans have learned that Great Societies are weak, like Norway, and they cost money. They don't want to be a society, or even a nation for that matter.

@Pluto's Republic
Everybody can be a Zuckerberg or a Buffett, and if you're not, then you're a lazy, stupid POS who's harming the rest of us by not contributing enough to the general prosperity, and who therefore doesn't deserve to live.

… which is different than "the Individual" era. The individual is the libertarian bootstrapper. It's what the Republicans want the poor and disabled to become. Miracle bootstrappers without a bit of assistance and starvation if they fail. A Great Society would simply take care of them and help them achieve their dreams. But Americans have learned that Great Societies are weak, like Norway, and they cost money. They don't want to be a society, or even a nation for that matter.

@Pluto's Republic
TPTB nominated the 2 most thoroughly disliked candidates in American history. It's hard to vote for the Great Society when it isn't on the ballot.

A majority of Democrats and independents and a plurality of Republicans support Medicare for all. The Tea Party wants the big banks broken up as much as OWS. That wasn't a choice we got either. An alliance of the left and the right against the center was instrumental in stopping an American response to the first alleged Syrian gov't Sarin attack.

… which is different than "the Individual" era. The individual is the libertarian bootstrapper. It's what the Republicans want the poor and disabled to become. Miracle bootstrappers without a bit of assistance and starvation if they fail. A Great Society would simply take care of them and help them achieve their dreams. But Americans have learned that Great Societies are weak, like Norway, and they cost money. They don't want to be a society, or even a nation for that matter.

@FuturePassed
It's easier to believe that the American people are stupid and have bad ideas, and that's why we are where we are, rather than believing we are where we are in part because the American people don't have a real say and their choices are all heavily managed (to say the least).

It's an ongoing argument between Pluto and I. Not a bad one.

#10.1.2.1
TPTB nominated the 2 most thoroughly disliked candidates in American history. It's hard to vote for the Great Society when it isn't on the ballot.

A majority of Democrats and independents and a plurality of Republicans support Medicare for all. The Tea Party wants the big banks broken up as much as OWS. That wasn't a choice we got either. An alliance of the left and the right against the center was instrumental in stopping an American response to the first alleged Syrian gov't Sarin attack.

up

5 users have voted.

—

The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

They've had little real choice in a show democracy. I'm surprised they've held up as well as they have, especially over the past 40 years as their lives have been diminished and they've become the throwaway people to their overlords.

An elite government is built into the system. Theodore Roosevelt sometimes wrote about it. He knew that the people could stop it, but they had no idea how the government was really run. They would always be kept in the dark:

"Political parties exist to secure responsible government and to execute the will of the people.

From these great tasks both of the old parties have turned aside. Instead of instruments to promote the general welfare, they have become the tools of corrupt interests which use them impartially to serve their selfish purposes. Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people.

To destroy this invisible government, to dissolve the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of the day."

All presidents know what must be done. But it never is.

I picked up a passage somewhere that expresses optimism about all this:

There is a massive shift in consciousness occurring. The veil that blinds the masses in so many ways is becoming transparent. New information and evidence is in conflict with long-held belief systems

Seeing the Deep State and their cohorts who really call the shots is a core strength. We must create more awareness of these issues and we must speak up about them. We must not surrender our power to representatives, and wait hopefully for political change that benefits the People. It doesn't work like that anymore. We have to do it ourselves.

#10.1.2.1
TPTB nominated the 2 most thoroughly disliked candidates in American history. It's hard to vote for the Great Society when it isn't on the ballot.

A majority of Democrats and independents and a plurality of Republicans support Medicare for all. The Tea Party wants the big banks broken up as much as OWS. That wasn't a choice we got either. An alliance of the left and the right against the center was instrumental in stopping an American response to the first alleged Syrian gov't Sarin attack.

They've had little real choice in a show democracy. I'm surprised they've held up as well as they have, especially over the past 40 years as their lives have been diminished and they've become the throwaway people to their overlords.

An elite government is built into the system. Theodore Roosevelt sometimes wrote about it. He knew that the people could stop it, but they had no idea how the government was really run. They would always be kept in the dark:

"Political parties exist to secure responsible government and to execute the will of the people.

From these great tasks both of the old parties have turned aside. Instead of instruments to promote the general welfare, they have become the tools of corrupt interests which use them impartially to serve their selfish purposes. Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people.

To destroy this invisible government, to dissolve the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of the day."

All presidents know what must be done. But it never is.

I picked up a passage somewhere that expresses optimism about all this:

There is a massive shift in consciousness occurring. The veil that blinds the masses in so many ways is becoming transparent. New information and evidence is in conflict with long-held belief systems

Seeing the Deep State and their cohorts who really call the shots is a core strength. We must create more awareness of these issues and we must speak up about them. We must not surrender our power to representatives, and wait hopefully for political change that benefits the People. It doesn't work like that anymore. We have to do it ourselves.

up

3 users have voted.

—

The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

@CB
to hear Putin making so much more sense than any of America's politicians and pundits seem able (or willing) to do. What's a poor American patriot to think, when his nation's own opinion-leaders are blathering nonsense 24/7, while the words of Russia's President, a declared enemy-of-State, ring absolutely true? It does put one in something of a bind.

If the drums of war get much louder, speaking out in favor of Putin's world-view (as opposed to that of the US media) might become an increasingly unpopular, and possibly dangerous enterprise.

Published on May 31, 2017

Russian President Vladimir Putin, in an interview with French publication Le Figaro, has revealed that a US president is more often than not just a figurehead of government. A certain person may be elected by the public on the basis of his merit and ideals – but rarely is this person able to formulate policy. Putin explained

@native@native
I think at some point the American people are going to insist that the Neocon elite send their own kids into the meatgrinder or shut up.

#10
to hear Putin making so much more sense than any of America's politicians and pundits seem able (or willing) to do. What's a poor American patriot to think, when his nation's own opinion-leaders are blathering nonsense 24/7, while the words of Russia's President, a declared enemy-of-State, ring absolutely true? It does put one in something of a bind.

If the drums of war get much louder, speaking out in favor of Putin's world-view (as opposed to that of the US media) might become an increasingly unpopular, and possibly dangerous enterprise.

@CB
When he says "dark suits, kind of like mine" wonder if he's referring to his own past as a member of the KGB. Wonder if he's implying that it's the CIA (and other agencies like them) that are running the U.S.

Might be reading too much into that.

Published on May 31, 2017

Russian President Vladimir Putin, in an interview with French publication Le Figaro, has revealed that a US president is more often than not just a figurehead of government. A certain person may be elected by the public on the basis of his merit and ideals – but rarely is this person able to formulate policy. Putin explained

up

6 users have voted.

—

The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal
He has never denied this heritage -- he's proud of it. The "men in back suits" he refers to, have been his closest colleagues, and Putin's presumed virtue is that he has managed to bend them all to his will... by whatever means he has deemed necessary.

By the time Yeltsin's appointees and their Western co-sponsors had finished plundering Moscow's treasury, and selling off much of the defunct Empire's remaining assets, the KGB was one of the few powerful Russian institutions left standing. The fact that Putin arose from within its ranks is hardly surprising. Nor would this normally be held against him, in the eyes of most Russians... Russian history being way different from American history.

Putin was the insider guy who somehow beat the "Western" capitalists at their own game, by playing outside the rules and ruthlessly expropriating much of their ill-gotten gains... and then effectively re-distributing them... to great public acclaim. While at the same time he was gaining the support of most old-guard Communists, and most dispossessed Russian nativists as well.

And yes, I think he's also referring (albeit obliquely) to the largely hidden infrastructure of various powers-be that operate behind the political scenes in both Russia and the USA. He seems to be frankly admitting that they do in fact exist. And he also seems to be implying that it might be advisable for people to recognize that they exist.

#10 When he says "dark suits, kind of like mine" wonder if he's referring to his own past as a member of the KGB. Wonder if he's implying that it's the CIA (and other agencies like them) that are running the U.S.

... he's also referring (albeit obliquely) to the largely hidden infrastructure of various powers-be that operate behind the political scenes in both Russia and the USA.

At some point the American people are going to have to come to grips with the fact that U.S. corporations have been in Russia since the 1920s, are still there, and have been the power behind the KGB and the CIA all along.

#10.3
He has never denied this heritage -- he's proud of it. The "men in back suits" he refers to, have been his closest colleagues, and Putin's presumed virtue is that he has managed to bend them all to his will... by whatever means he has deemed necessary.

By the time Yeltsin's appointees and their Western co-sponsors had finished plundering Moscow's treasury, and selling off much of the defunct Empire's remaining assets, the KGB was one of the few powerful Russian institutions left standing. The fact that Putin arose from within its ranks is hardly surprising. Nor would this normally be held against him, in the eyes of most Russians... Russian history being way different from American history.

Putin was the insider guy who somehow beat the "Western" capitalists at their own game, by playing outside the rules and ruthlessly expropriating much of their ill-gotten gains... and then effectively re-distributing them... to great public acclaim. While at the same time he was gaining the support of most old-guard Communists, and most dispossessed Russian nativists as well.

And yes, I think he's also referring (albeit obliquely) to the largely hidden infrastructure of various powers-be that operate behind the political scenes in both Russia and the USA. He seems to be frankly admitting that they do in fact exist. And he also seems to be implying that it might be advisable for people to recognize that they exist.

@Linda Wood
and only occasionally intersecting power-structures in play here. Putin has managed to more or less coordinate the Russian oligarchs he has gained control over, with a skillful blend of carrot and stick. More stick than carrot in fact, and a very heavy stick.

The USG power-structure is something very different, and much less centrally controlled. It is full of competing factions, interests, and ideological positions, and is a much more fluid affair. USG is something of a free market free-for-all for capitalists of every stripe, some of them far more rapacious than others, but in general representing a kind of mosh pit of self-interest and greed -- which US media has been able to successfully market as an attempt at "Democracy".

However this guise, that has worked so well for so long, is wearing a bit thin. Sanders and Trump seem to have split the damn thing straight down the middle. Bye-bye mask. Many ordinary folks are beginning to speculate as to what might be behind it.

... he's also referring (albeit obliquely) to the largely hidden infrastructure of various powers-be that operate behind the political scenes in both Russia and the USA.

At some point the American people are going to have to come to grips with the fact that U.S. corporations have been in Russia since the 1920s, are still there, and have been the power behind the KGB and the CIA all along.

Hammer was very fond of Albert Gore, Jr., and in 1984 under Hammer’s guidance Gore, Jr. sought Tennessee’s senate office previously held by Howard Baker. Hammer supposedly promised Gore, Sr. that he could make his son the president of the United States. It was under Hammer’s encouragement and support that Gore Jr. sought the Democratic Party presidential nomination in 1988.

So let me get this straight. Al Gore owed his career (including his POTUS win in 2000 that was stolen from him) in part to a tycoon with (ominous old-time radio organ chord)Russian ties?

... he's also referring (albeit obliquely) to the largely hidden infrastructure of various powers-be that operate behind the political scenes in both Russia and the USA.

At some point the American people are going to have to come to grips with the fact that U.S. corporations have been in Russia since the 1920s, are still there, and have been the power behind the KGB and the CIA all along.

@lotlizard
The Koch brothers' father made the bulk of his wealth in an oil deal with the Russians. Every rich and politically-connected asshole here makes large amounts of money however they can; they'd make a deal with Vlad the Impaler if he were around. What I don't get is why we're supposed to grab our pearls about this now.

Hammer was very fond of Albert Gore, Jr., and in 1984 under Hammer’s guidance Gore, Jr. sought Tennessee’s senate office previously held by Howard Baker. Hammer supposedly promised Gore, Sr. that he could make his son the president of the United States. It was under Hammer’s encouragement and support that Gore Jr. sought the Democratic Party presidential nomination in 1988.

So let me get this straight. Al Gore owed his career (including his POTUS win in 2000 that was stolen from him) in part to a tycoon with (ominous old-time radio organ chord)Russian ties?

up

5 users have voted.

—

The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

#10.3.1.1.2 The Koch brothers' father made the bulk of his wealth in an oil deal with the Russians. Every rich and politically-connected asshole here makes large amounts of money however they can; they'd make a deal with Vlad the Impaler if he were around. What I don't get is why we're supposed to grab our pearls about this now.

What I don't get is why we're supposed to grab our pearls about this now.

I think the chaos of the Syrian war and the questionableness of the EU and its austerity-enforcing loans both caused a backlash, including in Ukraine. And when the democratically elected government in Ukraine decided to go with a Russian economic deal instead of falling unconscious into the arms of the EU bankers, the threat that the world could go differently from the way defense-spending-underwritten banks want it to go was suddenly looming.

Think about it. Putin personifies the potential for the world having to live on its resources instead of on war, which is the United States' biggest export, meaning debt, meaning instant moolah for banks that lend us the money for it, especially when war never ends. The problem is, the people of Europe aren't down with having to give up their businesses and their pensions just so the nouveau riche can party. They're starting to look at solvency and jobs as preferable to debt and terrorism. Not to mention the refugee problem they have to feed and house. War is insane. It produces no goods or services. It's a way of making a killing, not a living.

Work, not war, is what Putin represents. If he challenges the lunacy of the Obama war policy in Syria, points out our failure to destroy ISIS, which was the premise of our endless funding of this slaughter, and shows us he can bomb ISIS's oil trucks, he's a pain in the ass. Not only a killjoy, he demonstrates a common sense alternative to insanity. Ultimately, any common sense alternative would put NATO, the nuclear weapons industry, and the medieval depravity of Saudi tyranny out of business, which means the end of the glorified frat party known as wealth.

#10.3.1.1.2 The Koch brothers' father made the bulk of his wealth in an oil deal with the Russians. Every rich and politically-connected asshole here makes large amounts of money however they can; they'd make a deal with Vlad the Impaler if he were around. What I don't get is why we're supposed to grab our pearls about this now.

What I don't get is why we're supposed to grab our pearls about this now.

I think the chaos of the Syrian war and the questionableness of the EU and its austerity-enforcing loans both caused a backlash, including in Ukraine. And when the democratically elected government in Ukraine decided to go with a Russian economic deal instead of falling unconscious into the arms of the EU bankers, the threat that the world could go differently from the way defense-spending-underwritten banks want it to go was suddenly looming.

Think about it. Putin personifies the potential for the world having to live on its resources instead of on war, which is the United States' biggest export, meaning debt, meaning instant moolah for banks that lend us the money for it, especially when war never ends. The problem is, the people of Europe aren't down with having to give up their businesses and their pensions just so the nouveau riche can party. They're starting to look at solvency and jobs as preferable to debt and terrorism. Not to mention the refugee problem they have to feed and house. War is insane. It produces no goods or services. It's a way of making a killing, not a living.

Work, not war, is what Putin represents. If he challenges the lunacy of the Obama war policy in Syria, points out our failure to destroy ISIS, which was the premise of our endless funding of this slaughter, and shows us he can bomb ISIS's oil trucks, he's a pain in the ass. Not only a killjoy, he demonstrates a common sense alternative to insanity. Ultimately, any common sense alternative would put NATO, the nuclear weapons industry, and the medieval depravity of Saudi tyranny out of business, which means the end of the glorified frat party known as wealth.

up

2 users have voted.

—

The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

@native
"tie like mine" remark to mean that these guys are the same type of permanent bureaucracy, Deep State operatives that are well known in Russia. He seemed to be saying that we're the commies now.

He cracks me up, I love watching him speak.

#10.3
He has never denied this heritage -- he's proud of it. The "men in back suits" he refers to, have been his closest colleagues, and Putin's presumed virtue is that he has managed to bend them all to his will... by whatever means he has deemed necessary.

By the time Yeltsin's appointees and their Western co-sponsors had finished plundering Moscow's treasury, and selling off much of the defunct Empire's remaining assets, the KGB was one of the few powerful Russian institutions left standing. The fact that Putin arose from within its ranks is hardly surprising. Nor would this normally be held against him, in the eyes of most Russians... Russian history being way different from American history.

Putin was the insider guy who somehow beat the "Western" capitalists at their own game, by playing outside the rules and ruthlessly expropriating much of their ill-gotten gains... and then effectively re-distributing them... to great public acclaim. While at the same time he was gaining the support of most old-guard Communists, and most dispossessed Russian nativists as well.

And yes, I think he's also referring (albeit obliquely) to the largely hidden infrastructure of various powers-be that operate behind the political scenes in both Russia and the USA. He seems to be frankly admitting that they do in fact exist. And he also seems to be implying that it might be advisable for people to recognize that they exist.

@dervish
I have to admit, I've become a fan of Vladimir Putin. I have found nothing to criticize in his analysis of world affairs, and I find his opinions to be far more credible than those of most American pundits.

#10.3.1 "tie like mine" remark to mean that these guys are the same type of permanent bureaucracy, Deep State operatives that are well known in Russia. He seemed to be saying that we're the commies now.

@native
Whatever else you can say about him - and plenty can, both pro and con - he knows the real score.

#10.3.1.2
I have to admit, I've become a fan of Vladimir Putin. I have found nothing to criticize in his analysis of world affairs, and I find his opinions to be far more credible than those of most American pundits.

@dervish
of his background with the KGB/FSB. Did you notice "we both wear suits but their ties are black, not blue or red". Putin knows there are black ops going on in the US that wish to ensure the US and Russia never achieve detente.

#10.3.1 "tie like mine" remark to mean that these guys are the same type of permanent bureaucracy, Deep State operatives that are well known in Russia. He seemed to be saying that we're the commies now.

As soon as the coup started on 18 August 1991, the NSA, America's largest intelligence organisation, was able to decrypt conversations between the coup's two leaders, Vladimir Kryuchkov, chairman of the KGB, and Dmitri Yazov, the Defence Minister, taking place over a supposedly secure landline. President Bush ordered the information to be given to Mr Yeltsin but, fearing Russian reaction if word of American interference leaked out, broke the law by not telling Congress.

The information was of critical significance to Mr Yeltsin at a moment when both sides in Moscow were wooing various military commanders across the Soviet Union. Mr Yeltsin knew exactly who supported the coup and who opposed it.

An American specialist from the US embassy was sent to Mr Yeltsin's office in the Russian parliament building to make sure that his own communications system was secure.

The FSK (for-runner of the FSB) was created in 1992-3 out of the defunct KGB. One of the first things it did was work hand-in-hand with the CIA under Director of Central Intelligence Robert Gates to oust the Russian communist hard liners from Parliament using force in 1993. This intimate relationship lasted until the Ames affair in 1994. This was about the time the FSB was signed into law by Yeltsin. Yelstin appointed ex-KGB Putin as head of the FSB in 1998.

(Take note that even when the Russians and Americans were working closely together, there were elements in the US that wanted to destroy the relationship. Russia HAD to remain the consummate enemy of America. I believe the CIA's Team B was responsible for throwing a wrench into the works at this time, but that's a whole other story.)

"I would like to give a toast. I believe you are all well aware of my background and views as a so-called cold warrior. It is not my wish to go down in history as the first director of central intelligence to come to Moscow to establish a liaison relationship between US and Russian intelligence. I am frankly uncomfortable with any suggestion that my visit might serve to legitimize or recognize the role of the KGB in a democratic Russia. No, I am here today because the relationship between our two countries demands that our intelligence agencies work together in areas of mutual interest. It is time to turn a page in our history, without forgetting our past and present differences, in order to eliminate the threats we face in this new era. I propose a toast for the security and the future of our two peoples."

With these words, as best I can recall them, Director of Central Intelligence Robert Gates ushered in a new chapter in the adversarial, turbulent story of US and Russian intelligence. The September, 1992 DCI visit co-hosted by SVR Director Yevgeniy Primakov and FSB (then FSK) Director Sergey Stepashin was not political theater, nor was it a naive event that ignored the bitter reality of confrontation.
...
When word reached Moscow that CIA traitor Aldrich Ames had been arrested on February 23, 1994, I secretly hoped to be expelled and declared persona non grata so I’d never have to work with Russian intelligence again. The Ames affair was a sensation in Washington. The CIA was being attacked by all sides of the political spectrum. It seemed only logical when Langley decided to sever liaison ties in the aftermath of the arrest of a Russian mole in the CIA. As usual, the emotional entanglements of espionage held both sides in a vise-like grip. Within days of the arrest, a senior CIA delegation announced its intention to visit Moscow in a last ditch effort to negotiate a solution that might avert mass, tit for tat expulsions -- and worse, if the Ames affair was allowed to escalate into a global, spy versus spy war waged in the shadows.

Senior CIA officer John MacGaffin headed the small delegation that descended on SVR headquarters at Yasenevo on the outskirts of Moscow. Traditional pleasantries were curtailed, as both sides got to the heart of the matter. “These things happen.” Primakov shrugged, trying to lighten the mood. “It’s the nature of the business.” MacGaffin flashed a disarming smile, before curtly countering, “Things will get ugly. That’s inevitable. The question is how can we contain the damage? How can we avoid an escalation that could harm the broader, bilateral relationship?”
...

American involvement in Russia and the subsequent rise of Putin is a fascinating story that very few Americans know about. If I had more time it would be worth a series of diaries. Especially in light of Shillary's rants about "Russia stole my lunch and my election."

#10.3
He has never denied this heritage -- he's proud of it. The "men in back suits" he refers to, have been his closest colleagues, and Putin's presumed virtue is that he has managed to bend them all to his will... by whatever means he has deemed necessary.

By the time Yeltsin's appointees and their Western co-sponsors had finished plundering Moscow's treasury, and selling off much of the defunct Empire's remaining assets, the KGB was one of the few powerful Russian institutions left standing. The fact that Putin arose from within its ranks is hardly surprising. Nor would this normally be held against him, in the eyes of most Russians... Russian history being way different from American history.

Putin was the insider guy who somehow beat the "Western" capitalists at their own game, by playing outside the rules and ruthlessly expropriating much of their ill-gotten gains... and then effectively re-distributing them... to great public acclaim. While at the same time he was gaining the support of most old-guard Communists, and most dispossessed Russian nativists as well.

And yes, I think he's also referring (albeit obliquely) to the largely hidden infrastructure of various powers-be that operate behind the political scenes in both Russia and the USA. He seems to be frankly admitting that they do in fact exist. And he also seems to be implying that it might be advisable for people to recognize that they exist.

As soon as the coup started on 18 August 1991, the NSA, America's largest intelligence organisation, was able to decrypt conversations between the coup's two leaders, Vladimir Kryuchkov, chairman of the KGB, and Dmitri Yazov, the Defence Minister, taking place over a supposedly secure landline. President Bush ordered the information to be given to Mr Yeltsin but, fearing Russian reaction if word of American interference leaked out, broke the law by not telling Congress.

The information was of critical significance to Mr Yeltsin at a moment when both sides in Moscow were wooing various military commanders across the Soviet Union. Mr Yeltsin knew exactly who supported the coup and who opposed it.

An American specialist from the US embassy was sent to Mr Yeltsin's office in the Russian parliament building to make sure that his own communications system was secure.

The FSK (for-runner of the FSB) was created in 1992-3 out of the defunct KGB. One of the first things it did was work hand-in-hand with the CIA under Director of Central Intelligence Robert Gates to oust the Russian communist hard liners from Parliament using force in 1993. This intimate relationship lasted until the Ames affair in 1994. This was about the time the FSB was signed into law by Yeltsin. Yelstin appointed ex-KGB Putin as head of the FSB in 1998.

(Take note that even when the Russians and Americans were working closely together, there were elements in the US that wanted to destroy the relationship. Russia HAD to remain the consummate enemy of America. I believe the CIA's Team B was responsible for throwing a wrench into the works at this time, but that's a whole other story.)

"I would like to give a toast. I believe you are all well aware of my background and views as a so-called cold warrior. It is not my wish to go down in history as the first director of central intelligence to come to Moscow to establish a liaison relationship between US and Russian intelligence. I am frankly uncomfortable with any suggestion that my visit might serve to legitimize or recognize the role of the KGB in a democratic Russia. No, I am here today because the relationship between our two countries demands that our intelligence agencies work together in areas of mutual interest. It is time to turn a page in our history, without forgetting our past and present differences, in order to eliminate the threats we face in this new era. I propose a toast for the security and the future of our two peoples."

With these words, as best I can recall them, Director of Central Intelligence Robert Gates ushered in a new chapter in the adversarial, turbulent story of US and Russian intelligence. The September, 1992 DCI visit co-hosted by SVR Director Yevgeniy Primakov and FSB (then FSK) Director Sergey Stepashin was not political theater, nor was it a naive event that ignored the bitter reality of confrontation.
...
When word reached Moscow that CIA traitor Aldrich Ames had been arrested on February 23, 1994, I secretly hoped to be expelled and declared persona non grata so I’d never have to work with Russian intelligence again. The Ames affair was a sensation in Washington. The CIA was being attacked by all sides of the political spectrum. It seemed only logical when Langley decided to sever liaison ties in the aftermath of the arrest of a Russian mole in the CIA. As usual, the emotional entanglements of espionage held both sides in a vise-like grip. Within days of the arrest, a senior CIA delegation announced its intention to visit Moscow in a last ditch effort to negotiate a solution that might avert mass, tit for tat expulsions -- and worse, if the Ames affair was allowed to escalate into a global, spy versus spy war waged in the shadows.

Senior CIA officer John MacGaffin headed the small delegation that descended on SVR headquarters at Yasenevo on the outskirts of Moscow. Traditional pleasantries were curtailed, as both sides got to the heart of the matter. “These things happen.” Primakov shrugged, trying to lighten the mood. “It’s the nature of the business.” MacGaffin flashed a disarming smile, before curtly countering, “Things will get ugly. That’s inevitable. The question is how can we contain the damage? How can we avoid an escalation that could harm the broader, bilateral relationship?”
...

American involvement in Russia and the subsequent rise of Putin is a fascinating story that very few Americans know about. If I had more time it would be worth a series of diaries. Especially in light of Shillary's rants about "Russia stole my lunch and my election."

@native
Well, one of Putin's favorite things is to poke at the American belief that America is somehow a moral democracy and not a police state. That's why he gave Snowden asylum. As a commentator here said, "I think it was just too delicious for Putin to pass up." It's the irony that's delicious.

#10.3
He has never denied this heritage -- he's proud of it. The "men in back suits" he refers to, have been his closest colleagues, and Putin's presumed virtue is that he has managed to bend them all to his will... by whatever means he has deemed necessary.

By the time Yeltsin's appointees and their Western co-sponsors had finished plundering Moscow's treasury, and selling off much of the defunct Empire's remaining assets, the KGB was one of the few powerful Russian institutions left standing. The fact that Putin arose from within its ranks is hardly surprising. Nor would this normally be held against him, in the eyes of most Russians... Russian history being way different from American history.

Putin was the insider guy who somehow beat the "Western" capitalists at their own game, by playing outside the rules and ruthlessly expropriating much of their ill-gotten gains... and then effectively re-distributing them... to great public acclaim. While at the same time he was gaining the support of most old-guard Communists, and most dispossessed Russian nativists as well.

And yes, I think he's also referring (albeit obliquely) to the largely hidden infrastructure of various powers-be that operate behind the political scenes in both Russia and the USA. He seems to be frankly admitting that they do in fact exist. And he also seems to be implying that it might be advisable for people to recognize that they exist.

up

6 users have voted.

—

The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

Speech by Hezbollah Secretary General Sayed Hassan Nasrallah on May 25, 2017

Transcript :

Let’s evoke the summit (of Riyadh). First, it was said that it was a triple [American-Arab-Muslim] summit, when in fact there was only one summit, Saudi Arabia and the United States, that is, between President Trump and King Salman, and the accompanying delegations.

The summit between the United States and the Gulf countries was nothing but a meeting of courtesy, a presentation, a ceremony. The (alleged) US-Arab-Islamic summit, bringing together 55 or 56 countries, was but a standing ovation to President Trump, and it was not a summit or conference. There were no preparatory committees, no material distributed to participants, no preliminary meeting of foreign ministries or ministries of defense…, neither draft declaration, nor debate, nor negotiations, nor exchanges, nor nothing all.
...
First, it is to protect themselves. For the Saudi regime to protect itself in Saudi Arabia. To protect itself from the world. Why? Because today in the world, even in the United States, Europe and the whole world, it is no longer a secret that behind the takfiris groups and the takfiri ideology, lies the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. The whole world is now aware of it. And Trump himself knows it, he had talked about it during the election campaign. The press and the American, Western and international media (have spoken of it), everyone knows. What does ISIS teach in its schools? The books of Sheikh Muhammad b. Abd-al-Wahhab, the Wahhabi books. What is Al-Qaeda’s ideology? Wahhabism. Who created it? Saudi Arabia.

And that is why the whole world today considers the Saudi regime as the heart of takfiri thought and the essential support of the takfiri organizations in the world whose oppression and knives not only strike the Lebanese, the Syrians, Iraqis, Yemenis, Egyptians, Afghans and Pakistanis, but have reached Belgium, France, Great Britain, Germany, the United States and all over the world. And now Indonesia, Somalia… and they still have a long way to go. Saudi Arabia feels that the whole world looks at her angrily. That is why it needs to pay a bribe to the American master to defend it, so that it protects it, so that it presents it as a center of combat of the terrorism that leads the war against Terrorism, and to lift the accusation against it. But it will be to no avail.

Do you see how in this summit all Saudi Arabia’s care and concern was to say what? A sentence pronounced by King Salman: that Iran is the source of terrorism, the heart of international terrorism since the victory of the Khomeini Revolution, according to his words. Since the victory of the Revolution of the glorious Imam Khomeini. These grotesque remarks were pronounced by the King Salman. Iran is the heart of global terrorism? Is it Iran that created Al-Qaeda? Is it Iran that created ISIS? Is it Iran that created the Taliban? Is it Iran that created these Wahhabi movements and armies? Is it Iran that financed them and armed them?

Yes, Iran supported the movement of the Resistance in Lebanon, it is true. Iran has supported the movement of the Resistance in Palestine, it is true. Iran stood by the Iraqi people when ISIS nearly entered Najaf, Karbala and Baghdad. Iran stood with the Syrian people while Saudi Arabia was sending arms and money to these (terrorist) groups in Syria.

Iran is accused of sectarian incitement? Who therefore accuses the Shiites of being disbelievers? Who accuses other Muslims of disbelief? Iran or the Saudi Wahhabi ideology, the Council of the great Saudi scholars and their centers of religious education in Syria? The whole history of Saudi Arabia consists of accusations of disbelief against Muslims. And the whole history of Iran, from Imam Khomeini, has been the bringing together of schools (of Islamic faith), unity among Muslims, rapprochement, dialogue, coexistence, mutual support based on piety and Fear of God.

Launching the accusation against Iran will not benefit Saudi Arabia. A popular phrase says “The sun rises and people clear their throats.” The whole world clears its throat, for the sun has risen over all the world, and henceforth the truth cannot be hidden by a discourse here or a conference there.

First, (Saudi Arabia has done all of this) to face this global condemnation. Currently, in the United States, judicial proceedings are being instituted against Saudi princes who are linked to the September 11 attacks organized by Al-Qaeda in the United States. And billions of Saudi dollars in the US will be seized for the benefit of these families.

Secondly… Why did Saudi Arabia do all this with Trump during those two days? Because she also needs the American master to protect her role in the area. She has failed everywhere. All her plans have failed, as have all her wars and all her objectives. In Syria, she has failed so far, as well as in Iraq.

O my brothers, ISIS started in Saudi Arabia, ISIS not only has Saudi ideology, but its money is Saudi, its leaders are Saudi, and the hopes that were placed in ISIS were Saudi. That’s it.
...

Speech by Hezbollah Secretary General Sayed Hassan Nasrallah on May 25, 2017

Transcript :

Let’s evoke the summit (of Riyadh). First, it was said that it was a triple [American-Arab-Muslim] summit, when in fact there was only one summit, Saudi Arabia and the United States, that is, between President Trump and King Salman, and the accompanying delegations.

The summit between the United States and the Gulf countries was nothing but a meeting of courtesy, a presentation, a ceremony. The (alleged) US-Arab-Islamic summit, bringing together 55 or 56 countries, was but a standing ovation to President Trump, and it was not a summit or conference. There were no preparatory committees, no material distributed to participants, no preliminary meeting of foreign ministries or ministries of defense…, neither draft declaration, nor debate, nor negotiations, nor exchanges, nor nothing all.
...
First, it is to protect themselves. For the Saudi regime to protect itself in Saudi Arabia. To protect itself from the world. Why? Because today in the world, even in the United States, Europe and the whole world, it is no longer a secret that behind the takfiris groups and the takfiri ideology, lies the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. The whole world is now aware of it. And Trump himself knows it, he had talked about it during the election campaign. The press and the American, Western and international media (have spoken of it), everyone knows. What does ISIS teach in its schools? The books of Sheikh Muhammad b. Abd-al-Wahhab, the Wahhabi books. What is Al-Qaeda’s ideology? Wahhabism. Who created it? Saudi Arabia.

And that is why the whole world today considers the Saudi regime as the heart of takfiri thought and the essential support of the takfiri organizations in the world whose oppression and knives not only strike the Lebanese, the Syrians, Iraqis, Yemenis, Egyptians, Afghans and Pakistanis, but have reached Belgium, France, Great Britain, Germany, the United States and all over the world. And now Indonesia, Somalia… and they still have a long way to go. Saudi Arabia feels that the whole world looks at her angrily. That is why it needs to pay a bribe to the American master to defend it, so that it protects it, so that it presents it as a center of combat of the terrorism that leads the war against Terrorism, and to lift the accusation against it. But it will be to no avail.

Do you see how in this summit all Saudi Arabia’s care and concern was to say what? A sentence pronounced by King Salman: that Iran is the source of terrorism, the heart of international terrorism since the victory of the Khomeini Revolution, according to his words. Since the victory of the Revolution of the glorious Imam Khomeini. These grotesque remarks were pronounced by the King Salman. Iran is the heart of global terrorism? Is it Iran that created Al-Qaeda? Is it Iran that created ISIS? Is it Iran that created the Taliban? Is it Iran that created these Wahhabi movements and armies? Is it Iran that financed them and armed them?

Yes, Iran supported the movement of the Resistance in Lebanon, it is true. Iran has supported the movement of the Resistance in Palestine, it is true. Iran stood by the Iraqi people when ISIS nearly entered Najaf, Karbala and Baghdad. Iran stood with the Syrian people while Saudi Arabia was sending arms and money to these (terrorist) groups in Syria.

Iran is accused of sectarian incitement? Who therefore accuses the Shiites of being disbelievers? Who accuses other Muslims of disbelief? Iran or the Saudi Wahhabi ideology, the Council of the great Saudi scholars and their centers of religious education in Syria? The whole history of Saudi Arabia consists of accusations of disbelief against Muslims. And the whole history of Iran, from Imam Khomeini, has been the bringing together of schools (of Islamic faith), unity among Muslims, rapprochement, dialogue, coexistence, mutual support based on piety and Fear of God.

Launching the accusation against Iran will not benefit Saudi Arabia. A popular phrase says “The sun rises and people clear their throats.” The whole world clears its throat, for the sun has risen over all the world, and henceforth the truth cannot be hidden by a discourse here or a conference there.

First, (Saudi Arabia has done all of this) to face this global condemnation. Currently, in the United States, judicial proceedings are being instituted against Saudi princes who are linked to the September 11 attacks organized by Al-Qaeda in the United States. And billions of Saudi dollars in the US will be seized for the benefit of these families.

Secondly… Why did Saudi Arabia do all this with Trump during those two days? Because she also needs the American master to protect her role in the area. She has failed everywhere. All her plans have failed, as have all her wars and all her objectives. In Syria, she has failed so far, as well as in Iraq.

O my brothers, ISIS started in Saudi Arabia, ISIS not only has Saudi ideology, but its money is Saudi, its leaders are Saudi, and the hopes that were placed in ISIS were Saudi. That’s it.
...

Speech by Hezbollah Secretary General Sayed Hassan Nasrallah on May 25, 2017

Transcript :

Let’s evoke the summit (of Riyadh). First, it was said that it was a triple [American-Arab-Muslim] summit, when in fact there was only one summit, Saudi Arabia and the United States, that is, between President Trump and King Salman, and the accompanying delegations.

The summit between the United States and the Gulf countries was nothing but a meeting of courtesy, a presentation, a ceremony. The (alleged) US-Arab-Islamic summit, bringing together 55 or 56 countries, was but a standing ovation to President Trump, and it was not a summit or conference. There were no preparatory committees, no material distributed to participants, no preliminary meeting of foreign ministries or ministries of defense…, neither draft declaration, nor debate, nor negotiations, nor exchanges, nor nothing all.
...
First, it is to protect themselves. For the Saudi regime to protect itself in Saudi Arabia. To protect itself from the world. Why? Because today in the world, even in the United States, Europe and the whole world, it is no longer a secret that behind the takfiris groups and the takfiri ideology, lies the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. The whole world is now aware of it. And Trump himself knows it, he had talked about it during the election campaign. The press and the American, Western and international media (have spoken of it), everyone knows. What does ISIS teach in its schools? The books of Sheikh Muhammad b. Abd-al-Wahhab, the Wahhabi books. What is Al-Qaeda’s ideology? Wahhabism. Who created it? Saudi Arabia.

And that is why the whole world today considers the Saudi regime as the heart of takfiri thought and the essential support of the takfiri organizations in the world whose oppression and knives not only strike the Lebanese, the Syrians, Iraqis, Yemenis, Egyptians, Afghans and Pakistanis, but have reached Belgium, France, Great Britain, Germany, the United States and all over the world. And now Indonesia, Somalia… and they still have a long way to go. Saudi Arabia feels that the whole world looks at her angrily. That is why it needs to pay a bribe to the American master to defend it, so that it protects it, so that it presents it as a center of combat of the terrorism that leads the war against Terrorism, and to lift the accusation against it. But it will be to no avail.

Do you see how in this summit all Saudi Arabia’s care and concern was to say what? A sentence pronounced by King Salman: that Iran is the source of terrorism, the heart of international terrorism since the victory of the Khomeini Revolution, according to his words. Since the victory of the Revolution of the glorious Imam Khomeini. These grotesque remarks were pronounced by the King Salman. Iran is the heart of global terrorism? Is it Iran that created Al-Qaeda? Is it Iran that created ISIS? Is it Iran that created the Taliban? Is it Iran that created these Wahhabi movements and armies? Is it Iran that financed them and armed them?

Yes, Iran supported the movement of the Resistance in Lebanon, it is true. Iran has supported the movement of the Resistance in Palestine, it is true. Iran stood by the Iraqi people when ISIS nearly entered Najaf, Karbala and Baghdad. Iran stood with the Syrian people while Saudi Arabia was sending arms and money to these (terrorist) groups in Syria.

Iran is accused of sectarian incitement? Who therefore accuses the Shiites of being disbelievers? Who accuses other Muslims of disbelief? Iran or the Saudi Wahhabi ideology, the Council of the great Saudi scholars and their centers of religious education in Syria? The whole history of Saudi Arabia consists of accusations of disbelief against Muslims. And the whole history of Iran, from Imam Khomeini, has been the bringing together of schools (of Islamic faith), unity among Muslims, rapprochement, dialogue, coexistence, mutual support based on piety and Fear of God.

Launching the accusation against Iran will not benefit Saudi Arabia. A popular phrase says “The sun rises and people clear their throats.” The whole world clears its throat, for the sun has risen over all the world, and henceforth the truth cannot be hidden by a discourse here or a conference there.

First, (Saudi Arabia has done all of this) to face this global condemnation. Currently, in the United States, judicial proceedings are being instituted against Saudi princes who are linked to the September 11 attacks organized by Al-Qaeda in the United States. And billions of Saudi dollars in the US will be seized for the benefit of these families.

Secondly… Why did Saudi Arabia do all this with Trump during those two days? Because she also needs the American master to protect her role in the area. She has failed everywhere. All her plans have failed, as have all her wars and all her objectives. In Syria, she has failed so far, as well as in Iraq.

O my brothers, ISIS started in Saudi Arabia, ISIS not only has Saudi ideology, but its money is Saudi, its leaders are Saudi, and the hopes that were placed in ISIS were Saudi. That’s it.
...

@irishking
from the countries we are attacking, the more I have come to the realization that it is the American public who, for the most part, don't have a fucking clue about what is going on the world. This also includes many who believe they are well informed by the MSM.

The ubiquitous of the internet allows people, on who's heads we have been dropping bombs for decades, to know why it's being done to them. There's more truth on the streets of Damascus, Baghdad, Tehran and Sana'a than in New York, Detroit, Los Angeles, Seattle or Miami and all the towns and cities between.

It's only on rare moments when we get unadulterated truth such this report from Zak. Unfortunately, it is not enough to make up for all the other crap he has been feeding the American public from CNN's slop trough.

… 41. The charity and relief defendants named herein were not independent of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. Rather, they were funded, authorized, supervised, directed, and/or controlled by the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, Prince Sultan, Prince Naif, Prince Salman, and the Saudi High Commission for Relief. Each charity and relief organization defendant: (A) raised funds only with the permission of the Kingdom; (B) was funded by the Kingdom directly and through donations made by Prince Sultan, Prince Salman, and other members of the royal family; (C) operated under the auspices of the Supreme Council, the Ministry of Interior, and the Saudi High Commission for Relief; and (D) otherwise functioned as a sponsor of Al Qaeda openly, with full knowledge, endorsement, and/or approval of the Foreign Governmental Defendants named herein…

… Prince Salman associated himself with Al Qaeda by: (1) authorizing, ratifying, supervising, controlling, overseeing and/or directing the Saudi High Commission for Relief and by personally funding it with the knowledge that it was the official Saudi governmental organization charged with collecting and dispersing humanitarian aid and that such financial and material support was being diverted to Al Qaeda; (2) publicly supporting and authorizing state-sponsorship of IIRO and Al-Haramain; and (3) personally funding IIRO and Al-Haramain with the knowledge that such financial and material support was being diverted to Al Qaeda.

… 194. Prince Sultan's, Prince Naif's, and Prince Salman's conduct or participation, directly or indirectly, in the affairs of the Al Qaeda Defendants' enterprise through a pattern of racketeering activity renders them jointly and severally responsible for the damage caused to Plaintiffs' property and business. The uninterrupted flow of financial and material support and substantial assistance enabled the Al Qaeda Defendants to plan, orchestrate and carry out the September 11 attacks. Therefore, the conduct of Prince Sultan, Prince Naif, and Prince Salman proximately resulted in the September 11 attacks...

… Astoundingly, the newly declassified report states that for “THE WEST, GULF COUNTRIES, AND TURKEY [WHO] SUPPORT THE [SYRIAN] OPPOSITION… THERE IS THE POSSIBILITY OF ESTABLISHING A DECLARED OR UNDECLARED SALAFIST PRINCIPALITY IN EASTERN SYRIA (HASAKA AND DER ZOR), AND THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THE SUPPORTING POWERS TO THE OPPOSITION WANT, IN ORDER TO ISOLATE THE SYRIAN REGIME…”.

The DIA report, formerly classified “SECRET//NOFORN” and dated August 12, 2012, was circulated widely among various government agencies, including CENTCOM, the CIA, FBI, DHS, NGA, State Dept., and many others.

The document shows that as early as 2012, U.S. intelligence predicted the rise of the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant (ISIL or ISIS), but instead of clearly delineating the group as an enemy, the report envisions the terror group as a U.S. strategic asset.

This is what Michael Flynn, who became Director of Defense Intelligence that summer, objected to.

The following is just a small part of his speech. Lots of interesting details.

Speech by Hezbollah Secretary General Sayed Hassan Nasrallah on May 25, 2017

Transcript :

Let’s evoke the summit (of Riyadh). First, it was said that it was a triple [American-Arab-Muslim] summit, when in fact there was only one summit, Saudi Arabia and the United States, that is, between President Trump and King Salman, and the accompanying delegations.

The summit between the United States and the Gulf countries was nothing but a meeting of courtesy, a presentation, a ceremony. The (alleged) US-Arab-Islamic summit, bringing together 55 or 56 countries, was but a standing ovation to President Trump, and it was not a summit or conference. There were no preparatory committees, no material distributed to participants, no preliminary meeting of foreign ministries or ministries of defense…, neither draft declaration, nor debate, nor negotiations, nor exchanges, nor nothing all.
...
First, it is to protect themselves. For the Saudi regime to protect itself in Saudi Arabia. To protect itself from the world. Why? Because today in the world, even in the United States, Europe and the whole world, it is no longer a secret that behind the takfiris groups and the takfiri ideology, lies the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. The whole world is now aware of it. And Trump himself knows it, he had talked about it during the election campaign. The press and the American, Western and international media (have spoken of it), everyone knows. What does ISIS teach in its schools? The books of Sheikh Muhammad b. Abd-al-Wahhab, the Wahhabi books. What is Al-Qaeda’s ideology? Wahhabism. Who created it? Saudi Arabia.

And that is why the whole world today considers the Saudi regime as the heart of takfiri thought and the essential support of the takfiri organizations in the world whose oppression and knives not only strike the Lebanese, the Syrians, Iraqis, Yemenis, Egyptians, Afghans and Pakistanis, but have reached Belgium, France, Great Britain, Germany, the United States and all over the world. And now Indonesia, Somalia… and they still have a long way to go. Saudi Arabia feels that the whole world looks at her angrily. That is why it needs to pay a bribe to the American master to defend it, so that it protects it, so that it presents it as a center of combat of the terrorism that leads the war against Terrorism, and to lift the accusation against it. But it will be to no avail.

Do you see how in this summit all Saudi Arabia’s care and concern was to say what? A sentence pronounced by King Salman: that Iran is the source of terrorism, the heart of international terrorism since the victory of the Khomeini Revolution, according to his words. Since the victory of the Revolution of the glorious Imam Khomeini. These grotesque remarks were pronounced by the King Salman. Iran is the heart of global terrorism? Is it Iran that created Al-Qaeda? Is it Iran that created ISIS? Is it Iran that created the Taliban? Is it Iran that created these Wahhabi movements and armies? Is it Iran that financed them and armed them?

Yes, Iran supported the movement of the Resistance in Lebanon, it is true. Iran has supported the movement of the Resistance in Palestine, it is true. Iran stood by the Iraqi people when ISIS nearly entered Najaf, Karbala and Baghdad. Iran stood with the Syrian people while Saudi Arabia was sending arms and money to these (terrorist) groups in Syria.

Iran is accused of sectarian incitement? Who therefore accuses the Shiites of being disbelievers? Who accuses other Muslims of disbelief? Iran or the Saudi Wahhabi ideology, the Council of the great Saudi scholars and their centers of religious education in Syria? The whole history of Saudi Arabia consists of accusations of disbelief against Muslims. And the whole history of Iran, from Imam Khomeini, has been the bringing together of schools (of Islamic faith), unity among Muslims, rapprochement, dialogue, coexistence, mutual support based on piety and Fear of God.

Launching the accusation against Iran will not benefit Saudi Arabia. A popular phrase says “The sun rises and people clear their throats.” The whole world clears its throat, for the sun has risen over all the world, and henceforth the truth cannot be hidden by a discourse here or a conference there.

First, (Saudi Arabia has done all of this) to face this global condemnation. Currently, in the United States, judicial proceedings are being instituted against Saudi princes who are linked to the September 11 attacks organized by Al-Qaeda in the United States. And billions of Saudi dollars in the US will be seized for the benefit of these families.

Secondly… Why did Saudi Arabia do all this with Trump during those two days? Because she also needs the American master to protect her role in the area. She has failed everywhere. All her plans have failed, as have all her wars and all her objectives. In Syria, she has failed so far, as well as in Iraq.

O my brothers, ISIS started in Saudi Arabia, ISIS not only has Saudi ideology, but its money is Saudi, its leaders are Saudi, and the hopes that were placed in ISIS were Saudi. That’s it.
...

@Shockwave@Shockwave
I don't consider it terrorism. But we're living in an age where words like "terrorism" cover an awful lot of ground. And I'm pretty sure the marketing of Iran as a Big Danger is relying on the cultural memory of that incident.

#15.1 That was not "terrorism". One of my friends (eventually he became a general) was one of the hostages and he was not terrorized. An act of war perhaps.

up

3 users have voted.

—

The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

@Shockwave
in this attack. The underground urban guerrilla organization, Islamic Jihad Organization, did a lot of independent terrorist operations on their own initiative. Remember some of the US financed mujaheddin groups in Afghanistan eventually went on to kill Americans.

The stated reason for the Buenos Aires attack was as a response to the assassination of al Moussawi by the Israelis. Keep in mind that Mossad's motto at that time was "By way of deception thou shalt make war." False flags, black flags, murder, deceit, subterfuge were all par for the course in those days (and still continue to a certain extent).

On 16 February 1992, Israeli Apache helicopters fired missiles at the motorcade of al Moussawi in southern Lebanon, killing al Moussawi, his wife, his five-year-old son, and four others.[13] Israel said the attack had been planned as an assassination attempt in retaliation for the kidnapping and death of missing Israeli servicemen in 1986 and abduction of US Marine and UN peace-keeping officer William R. Higgins in 1988.[14]

In retaliation, the Islamic Jihad Organization carried out the Israeli Embassy attack in Buenos Aires.[15] After the attack, the Islamic Jihad Organization declared that it was carried out for the revenge of the martyr infant Hussein, al Musawi's five-year-old son, who had been killed with his father.[16] Later it was revealed by Dieter Bednarz and Ronen Bergman that the original plan of Israel had been just to abduct al Musawi to realize the release of Israeli prisoners.[15] However, Ehud Barak, then Israeli chief of staff, convinced then Israeli Prime Minister Shamir to order his assassination.[15]

Al Musawi was succeeded as Secretary General of Hezbollah by Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah.[11]

he inserted all that info in the frame of "Isn't Donald Trump a Stupid, Venal Asshole" which is a big establishment favorite right now, and explains how he got it published in the Washington Post, the CIA's very own paper.

up

5 users have voted.

—

The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

I think Trump knew he was politically outgunned (and he damned well was), so he went around and made an independent deal with the Saudis which trumped (heh) the one they had with the Clintons (and, I guess, the Bushes? since the Bushes and Clintons are basically moving together these days...).

Politically, it's actually a smart (if morally horrific and hypocritical) move. Probably one he wouldn't have made if he'd been able to make a deal with Russia instead.

up

3 users have voted.

—

The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q