Sex in MarriageSexual problems are common in many relationships. This section is for discussions about sexuality. Please limit discussions to those asking for help with a problem and those offering advice. Any other threads may be deleted.

I know this topic has been discussed a lot here already, but I wanted to get a point of view for my specific circumstances. Basically, my wife has seemingly lost all interest in sex and its getting to a point where I can't take it anymore. Sorry for the length and the level of detail, but I felt everything was important to clarify. I don't think I broke the forum section rules and apologize to anyone who may feel otherwise. Here is our story...

We are both in our late 20s (I'm 2 years older) and we've been married for 3 years. Before that we dated for 5 years. In our first few years of dating we had a great sex life. We also regularly talked about getting married - she wanted marriage after our 3rd year of dating, but I wasn't ready and felt we were still too young and immature at that point. I told her "in a couple years" and she begrudgingly accepted, but I followed through with my promise. At some point during the 3rd or forth year of dating we had a few pregnancy scares - we always used protection but her period was late a few times which caused her to think the condom broke. It was always negative, but this scared her enough since she didn't want kids before marriage and she asked if we could hold off on having sex anymore until we were married. She said we could do "everything else" (use your imagination). I loved her and knew we would get married so I begrudgingly accepted. She was happy and regularly told me that she appreciated my support and once we were married we would have sex anywhere and everywhere, often describing it in detail, which was great to hear.

She never really followed through with that promise though once we got married. We would have sex once or twice a week at first, it was good, but nothing ever really crazy. Over the course of the next couple years the frequency would decline as well as her interest, to the point where she would never be the one to initiate. Our frequency has gone down to once every month or 2, and it has come to the point where even when I initiate she resists. Sometimes she will quickly tell me to lie back and she'll grab some lotion and use her hand to basically satisfy me so i would back off. Other times when I push enough and finally get her to have sex, she lies there and does nothing. I constantly ask her what she would like and communicate during sex - I'm the kind of guy that gets turned on by pleasing her as much as possible in bed instead of just focusing on myself. She just tells me to keep doing what I'm doing and resists if I try anything else. She doesn't get very wet (this didn't used to be a problem), but avoids much kissing and rushes me through foreplay which makes me think she wants to get everything over with as soon as possible. If I try to change positions, she says it is uncomfortable (we used to try tons of positions). One night as she denied foreplay, I immediately went down on her intensely. Within a matter of seconds she was soaking wet and after a few minutes I penetrated and made sure she came before I finished. I thought this would light a fire under her, but after that night the same pattern of avoidance and disinterest continued. On different occasions I have casually asked her if anything was wrong and she blames the birth-control pill, which she started taking after we got married. She says she read that it lowers sexual desire. I am not denying that is true or minimizing that fact, but I feel that at some point you need to take responsibility for yourself and not rely on a convenient excuse. I have tried romancing her and trying to make her feel sexy and also have tried to spice things up with videos, toys, games, hotel rooms, and many other ideas, but nothing works. I have given up trying. As of this writing it has been almost 3 months since we last had sex. I don't even remember the last time we made out.

On a daily basis my wife and I get along great and have a lot of fun together. We share a lot of common interests, have a large group of mutual friends and an active social life, take trips together, etc. Our friends refer to us as "the perfect couple". We kiss goodbye everyday when going to work and say "I love you" most days. We joke and laugh. Of course we have normal disagreements and arguments every now and then, but nothing too major. Our biggest point of contention is kids. She wants them now, I want to wait a couple years to further my career and put us in a better financial position. Also, I want to enjoy the freedom we have to travel and pursue activities that we won't have as much time for once we have kids. I know this bothers her very much but I have already compromised down a few years on when I originally wanted kids. I don't know if this is her way of making me "pay" for that.

I have wondered before if it was something about me or something I did. I may not be Brad Pitt, but I am an active person that keeps in good shape and grooms regularly. I get approached at bars every now and then by interested women and each time tell them thanks but I am married (I wear my ring wherever I go). My point is that I haven't "let myself go". I treat my wife very well. Every day I ask her how her day was. I compliment her regularly, get her flowers, give her space, listen to her problems. I don't pressure her about sex and respect when she's tired or in an unpleasant mood. I don't ask her to cook for me everyday since we both work full time and I would rather maximize and enjoy our leisure time together. We share cleaning duties and chores and I usually do the larger share. I'm not trying to sound arrogant, but I think I have been a great husband. I feel that she takes this for granted and maybe because of that I have just been an enabler. For example, now she often leaves some obvious cleaning tasks for me to do even though she was able to do it well before I had a chance. I don't know if the lack of sex is all a part of a larger pattern. I am confident there is no other man in the picture as well. Overall I feel like our relationship has devolved from husband/wife to maybe a step above friends/roommates.

So if you haven't gotten bored and are still reading, is there anything you see that I'm missing? Can anyone think of any reason why my wife just decided to start avoiding sex altogether? Any articles/posts I've read mostly point to reasons that don't seem to apply to our case. I think the details I provided should answer the more common questions, but feel free to ask any others. I know I have to sit her down and have a serious talk with her, not just bring it up casually, but how should I bring it up and approach it? Like I said, we have an generally good daily relationship so I don't want her to feel attacked out of nowhere (she gets defensive very easily). Advice on how to structure the conversation would be very helpful as well. I don't want to be overly accusatory but at the same time I want to be firm and let her know that this is affecting our lives and marriage and our future together. My main reason for posting this is to be as informed and prepared as possible before talking seriously with her. I just want to address this before my growing resentment takes over because it's already starting to get to that point. If this is how it is after only 3 years of marriage with no kids, I am terrified of what the rest of our lives will turn into. Any help/ideas/advice are greatly appreciated.

Well, there are dozens of angles you can take but she will probably react defensively to any angle.

I am not sure why when the ring goes on, the clothes don't come off with women but this is such a typical dysfunction, I am not sure what the well-researched answer is.

BTW, you described a very typical decline in affection and sex that happens in a lot of new marriages. It could be as simple as she married you because she thought she should and then discovered she doesn't love you.

While you get practical answers to your question from others. . .I would hope a parallel question could be answered (if you don't mind me joining in unison with you):

When there is a lack of sex in a marriage from one partner or the other, what is the other spouses obligation(s)? How much diagnosis and/or treatment are they morally obligated to seek before the marriage just becomes invalid in the laws, society, and the church's eyes?

I would think this. . .what if CupOJoe wanted kids right now? Is he obligated to embark on a 24 month mission to figure out the sexual dysfunction? Then with the chance it may end with "I dunno. Beats me why she's not horny?" (Because as much as therapists and doctors may wax on as to why they know, they don't.)

Then embark on a divorce, dating and then having finally having kids?

It's an honest question in my head I have thought as I hear story after story on this.

CupOJoe - thanks in advance for allowing me to tag along with your dilemma and there are very good helpers at this forum and you should be able to get some direction.

A good friend of mine is also wanting kids.. not her husband. Sex became a chance to get pregnant, it can sometimes put a spin on it. Same thing when she did not want kids... it can be a mental association. She may be very hurt about your choice to not have kids right now. Yup, I would say she is resentful about it, and not wanting to be intimate with you because of it. And it's growing, if she is leaving you cleaning tasks to do, and blaming the birth control as well (you are the reason she has to take it... you dont' want kids.. so now she has no sex drive).

You should probably resolve the issue. And let her know what your expectations are. Once a month? Once a week? And tell her why you expect intimacy. What do you get out of it? how does it make you feel?

Wow, you sound like a catch With that description, I dont know why any woman would not want to have sex with you... Ehhem, there's a bit of sarcasm in there on purpose bc sometimes we think we are Mr or Mrs wonderful when in fact things we do could be quite hurtful to our spouses. A red flag to me, as a woman, would be the fact that she is ready for things before you are. It may seem small to you because you reached an "agreement" on an "earlier" date to have children (earlier, only to you... she is still waiting). AND, its not the first time on a huge decision you made her wait. You can have a great relationship around these 2 things, but these 2 things could eat away at her opinion of how you view her and the relationship. This can breed resentment and resentment can turn into sex issue (cant any issue outside the bedroom, effect the bedroom?)

She may feel controlled by your timeline alone.

Im not trying to tell you to go start a family if you arent ready. I am trying to say that you may want to further evaluate if you call the shots on things as a rule. As she gets older, that wont fly anymore as she could become more assertive about her needs... especially if they have been second best from early in your relationship.

Bottom line: you may be a great guy, the whole package, but from your brief description I saw those 2 red flags that you brushed off with your discussions about waiting. Women want to feel like they are a priority to their man, and that he wants what she wants too. She is sitting in the corner counting the seconds on her biological clock while you want to play. Soon she wont want to play anymore if something isnt done.

Scannerguard, no problem, I don't mind at all joining in unison on this and am interested in hearing responses to your questions as well.

deejov, I actually never asked her to take birth control. She herself didn't want kids right away when we got married and decided to take it completely on her own. She's talked about stopping the pill to "get it out of her system" for when we actually do try for kids and I haven't resisted that either, although I would want to be more careful at that point to avoid accidents.

toolate, I have considered your points before and they are valid. Consider though that I wouldn't have included those details if I was "brushing them off". But if I'm not mistaken, marriage is about compromises. I would hardly call what I'm doing "making her wait while I play". You constantly refer to me "making her wait" and "my timeline", but this "our timeline" after having serious discussions and deciding our future TOGETHER. Do you think I should always make major decisions based on "her timeline" alone? Does her biological clock mean I have no right to ask for compromise on both ends while being open with her about my reasons? If you think I'm just trying to build myself here as Mr Wonderful you are entitled to that, but every word I wrote is 100% true. I can only write from my point of view even if it may not be the same as hers.

I think toolate could be right. Your wife could already be toting around a lot of resentment regarding the two incidents that were pointed out. It's too bad people get to that point, but in reality that happens.

1 - Does your wife resent the fact that you did not show enough concern/contemplate marriage when you had the pregnancy 'scares' prior to marriage?

2 - Is your wife resenting the fact that you are still on the fence about having kids? Seems to me that she may be - because the sure-fire way to have kids is to have sex - well, sans birth control.

Suggestions:

1 - Hormonal birth control can be a libido killer. Get her off of it. Find a different method to use.

2 - Have a frank discussion about needs. Sexual intimacy is a need within marriage. Let her know what your needs are and find out what her needs are. There was a lot of talk in your post about you and your perceptions of things, but what are hers?

3 - Don't have kids until this is resolved. Let her know that this is an issue that you both need to resolve and it's not right to bring a child in to the midst of it.

4 - What are the ways that you are initiating with her? Are you flirting throughout the day? The dryness issue points to a lack of desire/lack of arousal on her part that could be alleviated with more foreplay - and not just foreplay at the moment of sex - but foreplay throughout the day.

You sound like a wonderful husband, so I am going to make some assumptions about your wife from the way you have described her. She sounds like someone with rigid thinking, someone who has a schedule in her head of when she should have been married, and when she should have children. Because you did not meet this schedule, her resentment has grown to where she no longer wants to have sex with you. From your post, she is punishing you for something, and you have to get to the bottom of this.

When you have the serious talk, ask her if she resents delaying having children. Can you push up your date a bit as a compromise? Tell her that you connect to her emotionally through sex, and you miss that closeness. Have her read this website about men's sexuality:

First, unfortunately I can relate. Your situation is remarkably similar to mine: married only four years, sex life essentially dead in the water (happens maybe once every 4-5 months, and she is clearly not into it even then), and I have tried hard to be a good husband and not take her for granted (I still complement her, try to do little things for her, try to be sweet, try to flirt, all to no avail). And I am at a frustration point where I am becoming resentful, bitter, and depressed. I have no idea why she has no interest in sex what-so-ever. My wife is very defensive of anything as it stands, so talking to her about it has been an epic fail as well. I don't understand, and don't know what to do. :-( One notable difference is we do already have two kids: a 10 yr old that is technically hers from a prior marriage (but I regard as being mine), and a 3 yr old that is ours.

As for your specific situation, this may or may not be the central issue, but just recently the marriage of one of my wife's friends collapsed, and while there were evidently a lot of problems in that marriage, a big one was she wanted another child and he didn't. Unfortunately, the desire for kids can be a complicated issue. It seems that when a woman hits that stage where she desires children, that desire can become an all-consuming biological and emotional urge (went through that with my own wife). Sure, marriage is about compromise, and having a child before you feel ready can be stressful (little truth: no one is ever really ready), alas this is an area in which logic and reason do not factor into her thinking. No amount of negotiating, reassuring, or compromising can fill that void she is feeling.

Think of it from this perspective: a woman's desire for a child is like a man's desire for sex. If she were to say "just another year or two, and then we can have sex again", is that going to make you feel any better? The idea of two years before you can have sex again to you is as painful and horrifying as the idea of two years before she can have a child is to her.

I know that doesn't provide a solution, but maybe it will help you understand what she might be feeling. The bad news is "she want's kids, he doesn't" is a point where a lot of marriages crack and fail, because that is a very big deal, and either party can end up feeling resentful if the other person's preference is forced upon them.

On the other hand, there is always the chance this isn't about kids at all, and something else is wrong that she isn't telling you, but based on the information provided, that does seem the most likely culprit.

Well, there are dozens of angles you can take but she will probably react defensively to any angle.

I am not sure why when the ring goes on, the clothes don't come off with women but this is such a typical dysfunction, I am not sure what the well-researched answer is.

BTW, you described a very typical decline in affection and sex that happens in a lot of new marriages. It could be as simple as she married you because she thought she should and then discovered she doesn't love you.

I think becoming disillusioned with the reality of marriage, often due to selfishness and immaturity, can be a big culprit as to why there's a decline in affection and sex after the first few years. This happens to both spouses as they realize that neither their spouse, nor the marriage itself, quite meets up to their expectations. Here's a good faith-based series about this: http://www.focusonthefamily.com/marr...t_reality.aspx

As a woman, I can vouch that there is more expectation on the ramp-up to getting married and the ceremony itself, with very little preparation on what it actually means to be married and how difficult it can be afterward.

While you get practical answers to your question from others. . .I would hope a parallel question could be answered (if you don't mind me joining in unison with you):

When there is a lack of sex in a marriage from one partner or the other, what is the other spouses obligation(s)? How much diagnosis and/or treatment are they morally obligated to seek before the marriage just becomes invalid in the laws, society, and the church's eyes?

This will depend a lot on your belief system. If you believe in what the Bible states, then dissolving the marriage is not acceptable unless there's infidelity, abuse, or an unbeliever wants out if married to a believer. But, obviously, people are going to have to set boundaries of their own based upon their beliefs - whether to keep trying or not based upon those beliefs and circumstances. No one can tell another "when" the time is right. It is something they will have to determine themself.

I would think this. . .what if CupOJoe wanted kids right now? Is he obligated to embark on a 24 month mission to figure out the sexual dysfunction? Then with the chance it may end with "I dunno. Beats me why she's not horny?" (Because as much as therapists and doctors may wax on as to why they know, they don't.)

Then embark on a divorce, dating and then having finally having kids?

It's an honest question in my head I have thought as I hear story after story on this.

CupOJoe - thanks in advance for allowing me to tag along with your dilemma and there are very good helpers at this forum and you should be able to get some direction.

If CupOJoe really wants kids, I have a feeling that he's likely got a very willing candidate in his own wife, and it would likely behoove him to look at himself and his marriage and determine what his contribution is to its current condition. He can improve those things. He can encourage his wife to do the same thing in regards to what her contribution is to its current condition.

And yes, as a spouse you are obligated to work for the marriage - to try your best at providing for the needs of your spouse. Each spouse has this obligation - it's just convincing some people that the commitment they made in that church is really not just all hot air - that is the difficult part.

Enchantment, thank you for your suggestions, I will keep them in mind. To answer your questions:

Quote:

1 - Does your wife resent the fact that you did not show enough concern/contemplate marriage when you had the pregnancy 'scares' prior to marriage?

I don't think so. While we had the pregnancy 'scares' I tried my best to assure my wife that we would get married whether or not the tests were positive.

Quote:

2 - Is your wife resenting the fact that you are still on the fence about having kids? Seems to me that she may be - because the sure-fire way to have kids is to have sex - well, sans birth control.

I am not on the fence about having kids. I definitely want them, I just want to wait a couple years before having them. Either way, I don't disagree with the fact that she resents this.

Quote:

4 - What are the ways that you are initiating with her? Are you flirting throughout the day?

I believe that on most days I flirt with her throughout the day. I hug her, kiss her neck, tell her her hair smells good (it really does!). As for initiating, In general I usually begin by kissing her shoulder or neck along with some pillow talk, and slowly and softely rubbing my hand over her arms/legs/shoulder/neck, then proceeding toward kissing and putting my arms around her and caressing her back. After some time, I kiss her nipples and gently massage her vagina/clitoris. This isn't an in-stone plan and I try to mix it up, but that is a general description. If you think there is something I should change/add either with the flirting or initiating/foreplay, I'm open to suggestions.

lovesherman, thank you for suggestions as well, they will help me shape my conversation with my wife. I also think your assumptions are correct. To answer your question:

Quote:

Can you push up your date a bit as a compromise?

I have already compromised by a few years on this, and I feel that if I push up my date even more it will have a reverse effect and I will start to resent her for making me have kids before I was ready.

arrrgman - Thank you, the perspective definitely helps. I DO want kids, just not on my wife's personal schedule and have been willing to compromise, but only so far. I feel that asking for ANY compromise on her part has created resentment towards me.

lovesherman, thank you for suggestions as well, they will help me shape my conversation with my wife. I also think your assumptions are correct. To answer your question:

I have already compromised by a few years on this, and I feel that if I push up my date even more it will have a reverse effect and I will start to resent her for making me have kids before I was ready.

arrrgman - Thank you, the perspective definitely helps. I DO want kids, just not on my wife's personal schedule and have been willing to compromise, but only so far. I feel that asking for ANY compromise on her part has created resentment towards me.

Gonna offer you that rephrase again the way the wife's hearing it: you don't want kids. I don't care how you phrase it, that's what she is hearing from you.

Her biological drive to have kids being met by "not now" is making her develop very bad feelings toward you which are overriding your biological need for sex. She's displaying contempt for you by refusing you sex because you won't "man up" in her eyes and be a father now.

Regarding compromise, you have already asked her for big time compromises, first by making her wait years for marriage, then by making her wait again for years to have children. No wonder she doesn't feel like more compromise! Do you get that? I think not! You're being very selfish if you don't get that you've already made her compromise a lot to begin with and yet you are still demanding more compromise. She will soon feel she has wasted her best childbearing years on you. Heck I would not be surprised if she already feels that way.

I am not a counselor, but I would strongly suggest that you sh!t or get off the pot. In other words, be a father or leave the marriage while she is young enough to get another man to give her babies. Don't just sit there and fart for our entertainment: you'll only succeed in earning more of her contempt.

Now part of the deal, of course, is to let her know that in return for satisfying her need to have babies, you expect your need for sex to be satisfied more often. But that may fail down the road as the precedent has been set by which she can manipulate you into her favored outcomes by withholding sex. Frankly my good friend, I wish you well, but I am not optimistic considering your possible resentment over "her schedule". Which you've already pushed back on for years now.

CupOJoe,
Now let me give you the man's perspective on this.
1. Be VERY careful before you decide to have children. Your W promised you that when you did what she wanted (got married) she would provide you a great sex life. When she got what she wanted, suddenly your needs got dropped to the bottom of the queue.
2. You have LOTS of time left to have kids. The idea that if you don't do what she wants, she gets to be "resentful" and ignore your needs is very scary. Trust me if your W came on here and posted that she pressured you to have kids before you were ready and now you were being unloving because you were "resentful", everyone would say it was your fault. They would say you shouldn't have done something if you were going to hold it against her. What that means is simply this. You are not entitled to your preferences regarding the timing of children.
3. I DO think the birth control may be killing her desire. I ALSO think if she really loved you SHE would be trying to solve that problem. Thing is, I don't think she sees it as much of a problem. And THAT is a HUGE red flag. She knows sex is a big deal to you. Remember the promise that marriage would equal lots of sex. This is a lack of concern about your happiness.

And that brings us to the last and biggest issue. You. At your age you likely want sex at least daily. The fact that you are not being very blunt about YOUR needs is a problem. You are one child away from being stuck long term in what could easily become a sexless marriage.

Enchantment, thank you for your suggestions, I will keep them in mind. To answer your questions:

I don't think so. While we had the pregnancy 'scares' I tried my best to assure my wife that we would get married whether or not the tests were positive.

I am not on the fence about having kids. I definitely want them, I just want to wait a couple years before having them. Either way, I don't disagree with the fact that she resents this.

I believe that on most days I flirt with her throughout the day. I hug her, kiss her neck, tell her her hair smells good (it really does!). As for initiating, In general I usually begin by kissing her shoulder or neck along with some pillow talk, and slowly and softely rubbing my hand over her arms/legs/shoulder/neck, then proceeding toward kissing and putting my arms around her and caressing her back. After some time, I kiss her nipples and gently massage her vagina/clitoris. This isn't an in-stone plan and I try to mix it up, but that is a general description. If you think there is something I should change/add either with the flirting or initiating/foreplay, I'm open to suggestions.

lovesherman, thank you for suggestions as well, they will help me shape my conversation with my wife. I also think your assumptions are correct. To answer your question:

I have already compromised by a few years on this, and I feel that if I push up my date even more it will have a reverse effect and I will start to resent her for making me have kids before I was ready.

arrrgman - Thank you, the perspective definitely helps. I DO want kids, just not on my wife's personal schedule and have been willing to compromise, but only so far. I feel that asking for ANY compromise on her part has created resentment towards me.

I'm guessing she's not into because she's lost respect for you. If your writing style is
an indication of how you communicate and act around your wife then you may need
man up a bit. Less words and more masculine actions. You can talk your head off but
ultimately it's your actions that will make desire you. Don't be mean but try acting disinterested
for a couple of weeks and watch what happensPosted via Mobile Device

In response to what Zzyzx wrote, allow me to say having children is NOT a "sh!t or get off the pot" situation. Having kids is the largest life-changing event you can have, short of a diagnosis of a fatal condition with weeks left to live. NOTHING in your life will ever be the same again. Implying you are obligated to have kids when you don't feel ready is only going to lead to more resentment. That said Zzyzx is correct in what your wife most likely hears is you don't want kids. Once that bio-clock kicks in and a woman wants kids, to her, there are only two types of responses: enthusiastic, and rejection.

It is important here to understand that isn't your fault...nor is it hers. It's one of those "men/mars, women/Venus" scenarios, where men and women are just wired differently, and in some scenarios there is no winner.

I will throw out there that it is worth noting that waiting for you to feel ready will never happen. You (and most men) will never "feel" ready. The question is actually are you mature enough yet to handle the epic responsibility.Posted via Mobile Device

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