This is just like when new Porsches come out. The purists insist that things must stay the same forever, refusing to recognize improvements. Eventually, they convert and bitch just as hard when the next model comes out.

This rifle is a big improvement over the Swiss rifle. It has the core of the 550, which was its big advantage over the AR (AK reliability and Swiss accuracy). But, the gun has been improved in all other aspects.

(1) Collapsing stock. Yes the old stock was pretty, but that shouldn't be the number one criteria in selecting a stock. The AR stock allows it to be adjusted to fit different users and body armor. Plus, this allows developments in AR design to quickly be incorporated into the SIG rifle. If SIG went totally proprietary, every time a new stock came out folks would complain that it wasn't available for the SIG (and probably claim they would buy a SIG but for).

(2) Rails. For better or worse, rails are the future. You may not feel the need to attach a lot of crap to your rifle (neither do I), but doing so is currently fashionable among military/police types and their emulators. SIGs target market is military and police, and that is one of the reasons civilians desire their products. Plus, after looking at those photos it seems likely the old furniture or a B&T item will fit.

(3) Lighter weight. SIG has shaved the weight of the rifle down into AR territory. This is important since, once again, you know that people would have whined endlessly about how it weighed more that the piece of crap they put together in the basement of their parent's house.

(4) AR mags. By switching they opened the rifle to all manner of magazines and accessories. C-mags, HK mags, etc. All are available. If SIG went with an exclusive design on this, everybody would immediately started bitching that they could get AR mags cheaper.

In other words, SIG has improved the 550. The rifle they are delivering is better in numerous ways. Frankly, almost all the "complaints" voiced by the nay-sayers come down to aesthetics. I understand that, looks are important in marketing a product. But it is clear to me that SIGARMs decided that, if they were going to make a rifle here, they were going to make it better, not just a clone of the original. Bravo SIG!

hksw

February 8, 2006, 01:55 PM

Eh, I dont like it, the AR stock ruins the lines of the rifle.

My thought too. The buttstock, though, can be replaced if it is attached the same way as the AR collapsible. (I'd replace it with the Magpul Precision RIfle Stock.) But the front end will take a year or two for someone to tool up a replacement for that.

Greg Bell

February 8, 2006, 01:57 PM

Or just buy a Surefire, B&T or Swiss factory front end. All the attachment points look identical.

waterhouse

February 8, 2006, 02:00 PM

I was really hoping for a combination of the foldable stock/AR stock attachment, where you could choose any current ar-15 stock for the 556 but that also folded down. Moreso than that, I was hoping for rear sights similar to those on the 551. Although both of these points are a little of a let down to me, I still can't wait to get mine.

I do like that is uses AR mags.

thereisnospoon

February 8, 2006, 02:09 PM

I really must adnitt that I poo-pooed the idea of "another" 5.56mm battle carbine, but that looks slap your momma sweet!

:what:

Bobarino

February 8, 2006, 02:18 PM

if its the stock that you don't like and it attaches ala any other AR stock, just swap it out. there are approximately 1,239,843 options for AR stocks out there.

its a diggity new rifle but low on the priority list for me. maybe someday.

Bobby

Schmitty

February 8, 2006, 02:29 PM

How do you all think the two stack up? I for one know about zip about either one-:confused: which do you all prefer?

Kharn

February 8, 2006, 03:17 PM

If they made it have a folding stock that could also adjust for LOP (with an interface to accept a telescoping AR15 stock or whatever system they decided on), I'd strongly consider it. The folding part was one of the biggest attractions to the Sig, in my eyes.

I guess I'll just save my pennies for the SCAR.

Kharn

ny32182

February 8, 2006, 05:17 PM

I can't imagine that there won't be a folding stock option for this thing in about .2 seconds after its released.

Someone over on SIGforum did a crude dimensional comparison of the uppers of the 556 and the 551, and they do indeed look VERY MUCH alike. Looks like basically an untouched 551 upper on an Americanized lower, with the exception of the sights.

Obviously detailed tech specs and comparisons haven't been forthcoming yet, but just the same, I'm on a pre-order list for now.

crofrog

February 8, 2006, 05:46 PM

Eh, I dont like it, the AR stock ruins the lines of the rifle.

Kharn

The lines of the rifles uh :rolleyes:

Form follows function. Not the other way around... This makes it easy to adjust for different shooters / clothing. As well as openiong up a whole slew of options for various rifle stocks...

And how long before ACE LTD releases a side-folder.

Andrew S

February 8, 2006, 05:49 PM

Where can you sign up for the preorder?

ny32182

February 8, 2006, 06:05 PM

They have them going on both TFL and Sigforum.

MacPelto

February 8, 2006, 06:10 PM

Looks like a dolled up AR-180 to me.

Mac

jeff-10

February 8, 2006, 06:56 PM

I am not a huge fan of that stock on the rifle either but in all fairness it is probably more functional. The fact that it takes AR mags is a huge plus in my book. Most of all though I give props to SIG for making a rifle like that just for the civilian market (even though I am sure there hoping for law enforcement sales). Also that MSRP isn't as high as some people thought.

roscoe

February 8, 2006, 07:08 PM

It looks like it has a gas tube on top of the barrel - can you get rid of the AR-style stock and have a real folder?

Snagglepuss

February 8, 2006, 07:13 PM

Feels so nice inside to know I will have someone standing in line at the SIG booth tomorrow morning with down payment in hand to place an order for me.:p

Greg Bell

February 8, 2006, 08:13 PM

Roscoe,

Yes, the stocks tube is simply a product of its origin on the AR. Side folders will be available for this gun if you so choose.

Black Majik

February 8, 2006, 11:57 PM

I absolutely love the 55x series rifles, but the ones posted were absolutely fugly. That handguard ruined the rifle along with the AR vented stocks. Spoilers and vents belong on a car, not on a SIG rifle. :(

As to any 55x rifles. Thumbs up!

Greg Bell

February 8, 2006, 11:58 PM

Dude, its just a handguard. Put on a quad rail if you don't like it.

Harry Tuttle

February 9, 2006, 12:33 AM

The narrow waist at the back of the receiver looks wimpy

a magpul would look beefier:
http://premium1.uploadit.org/docZox//sigmagpul.jpg

sig is smart to borrow all the accessories from the AR market, since recreating that from scratch would be difficult and expensive. This gun is going to MURDER the AR 15 market overnight. It takes all the same toys and is fundamentally a better rifle.

That SBR looks like a normal length rifle. Yep, its 16 inches, even for swat.

edit: MSRP 1200 ???!?!?!??!!? DUBYA TEE EFF!!!! That is awesome, a sub 1000 dollar rifle that is dead reliable, takes AR accessories and is as accurate as an AR? Holy crap!

So add the Magpul to yours. AR buffer tube and all, it should work, right? :)

Hrmm... I wonder if they'll make a left-hand charging/ right-hand ejecting version eventually?

Anyhow, I don't think I want one, but it sure is nice to see more EBRs hit the shore :)

swingset

February 9, 2006, 01:20 AM

oh snap
sig is smart to borrow all the accessories from the AR market, since recreating that from scratch would be difficult and expensive. This gun is going to MURDER the AR 15 market overnight. It takes all the same toys and is fundamentally a better rifle.

I beg to disagree. It is smart to use the AR parts, from a cost-savings standpoint, but I'd wager that Sig will not sell nearly as many 556 rifles than had they left it traditional. Purists and gun nuts have been wanting a REAL 55X since 1989, and this isn't it. I like the new gun, but many many folks do NOT.

Here's a great thread to read gut-reactions:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=434694

And, it will definately NOT hurt the AR market, at all, not even a little bit. As good as the design is, it's not going to impact the AR market signifigantly.

If I'm wrong, and I'm not, I'll gladly come back to this thread in 5 years when AR companies are out of business or suffering and admit my stupidity.

This gun is going to MURDER the AR 15 market overnight. It takes all the same toys and is fundamentally a better rifle.

Actually its not a better rifle, and the AR market wont even feel it.:)

As far as it being more reliable, just out of curiosity what army involved in world wide combat operations has been using it in the field for the last 20 years?????? The SWISS army:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Let me know when it passes the USArmy field test.

I can right now change the upper on an AR-15 in about 15 seconds, I can go from a varmint heavy barrel with a sighted in long range scope, to a pistol length upper in 9mm, and anything in between, with any kind of optic already sighted in and ready to go. Thats some thing the sig simply cannot do.
I dont know how solid the mounting platform is on the SIG rifle do you????

Where is my Grenade launcher????? I dont see one on the sig.

It may very well be a great rifle but will it end up like the SHR 970? ( Hint a very nice hunting rifle which makes any remington 700 look like a piece of Garbage) That SIG introduced at the shot show a few years ago, and which sold for the same price as a 700BDL. The one you could change calibers and barrels on with a screw driver. I have one its a wonderful rifle 60 degree bolt lift, detachable mag, unbelievable adjustible trigger, floated and bedded with bedding blocks.

Yet they did not sell, even though you were getting a $1600 swiss rifle (that sells well in Europe at that price)for $489.

I already have a .308 and a .223 saiga and RAA has imported more of them.

mmike87

February 9, 2006, 11:01 AM

This gun is going to MURDER the AR 15 market overnight. It takes all the same toys and is fundamentally a better rifle.

Whoa there - has anyone even shot it yet? Personally, I LOVE my AR and think it's a great rifle by any definition. Nothings perfect, but modern AR's rock, IMO.

Yes, you can mount the same "toys" to the plastic rails in the front.

The rifle looks nice, but I expect better furniture on a $1300 rifle. Especially a SIG.

Beav

February 9, 2006, 11:51 AM

Although I would rather have a 550 its not going to stop me from getting a 556. I'll probably end up putting a magpul or vltor on it and I might replace the handguard eventually if that funky ribbing doesn't grow on me.

It figures that this rifle would come out right after I sold off a bunch of my handguns to make my collection more practical. I told myself I would stop buying firearms and put in more range time. I mean I already have a Daewoo, so I do have a gas piston 223, but heck its a SIG so I have no choice, right? Now if FN starts making civilian SCARs I might lose it. :)

But that magpul just somehow looks...right. I have never before had an urge to purchase a .223 rifle. Now, I do.

So darn you, sir! ;)

Barrett

TexasRifleman

February 9, 2006, 12:15 PM

I beg to disagree. It is smart to use the AR parts, from a cost-savings standpoint, but I'd wager that Sig will not sell nearly as many 556 rifles than had they left it traditional. Purists and gun nuts have been wanting a REAL 55X since 1989, and this isn't it. I like the new gun, but many many folks do NOT.

Everyone is missing the point of this weapon. SIG doesn't care if they make gun nuts happy.

This rifle exists so that SIG can do package bids to LE agencies.
That is why S&W now has an AR.

With all the Homeland Security money out there, a manufacturer that can offer handgun, patrol rifle, maintenance, and armorer training is going to have a leg up in the bidding.

Using AR parts means that agencies that want to buy from SIG don't have to resupply with all new webbing, magazines, etc. It has nothing to do with cost savings to SIG. Agencies have been training with AR style stocks for years. It would be crazy to introduce an entirely new system.

SIG is just playing nice by selling to non LEOs, but the real market for this is most certainly not a bunch of gun nuts on Arfcom.

While this rifle may cut into the similarly priced high end factory AR market a little bit (factory Colt, LMT guns, etc) there is absolutely no way to kill the AR market with anything. Trying to kill the AR market would go a lot like trying to kill the 1911 market.

While I certainly intend to buy one, I have some sneaking suspicions that they aren't going to sell as many of these as they think they are. Even though this rifle has no competition on the market today (in terms of being a high quality 5.56mm semi-auto that isn't an AR, it has no peer), at the end of the day, it doesn't do anything that an AR doesn't do. After a good bit of initial hoopla, I think they might have trouble getting them out the door. Hope I'm wrong.

Nightfall

February 9, 2006, 12:33 PM

Count me as interested. Once some brave early adopters have put it through its paces, I'll give it some consideration. If it performs well, I can see myself with a Sig 556 instead of a gas-piston AR in the future. I can't imagine finding a complete, high quality, railed, gas-piston AR for $1200 MSRP.

Fingolfin

February 9, 2006, 12:54 PM

I think it's a good start. Hopefully Sig will offer more variants and options down the road, along with the aftermarket sector putting out accessories.

I don't think of it as a US civilian 55x rifle, I think of it as a new American made Sig rifle based on the 55x system. I believe it will be successful, but the AR business isn't going under anytime soon because of it.

boofus

February 9, 2006, 12:58 PM

Doesn't even look like a SG55x series rifle. I hope the traditional handguards and stock can be retrofitted to that monstrosity.

Ian

February 9, 2006, 01:18 PM

By golly, it's a Daewoo K2! :neener:

Langenator

February 9, 2006, 02:18 PM

Is it just me, or did they put the flash suppresor on upside down?

On the M16A2/4 and M4, the solid bit goes on the bottom, to reduce the dust signature when firing in the prone.

Greg Bell

February 9, 2006, 02:21 PM

From Sigforum

1) The stock is swapable for a factory folder.

2) The pistol grip is current 550 issue.

3) The trigger is just as good as we were hoping it would be.

4) They're offering a Precision Rifle as a fourth configuration of the 556.

P.S. Lang, you get a Sherlock Holmes hat for being the one millionth person to point out the upside down flash Suppressor

Langenator

February 9, 2006, 04:19 PM

Excuse me for not reading the actual text on SigForums...

Pilot

February 9, 2006, 04:20 PM

I like it. I want one.

happyhooligan

February 9, 2006, 09:34 PM

It looks like an AR and SIG 550 mated at Tapco. They mall-ninja'd a good rifle. Why don't they offer a plain jane base model for a little cheaper, and then let the flashlite hangers buy all the extra crap they want?

It looks like I'll be sticking with my plain-jane AR for a while. Maybe they'll get wise and import the tooling to make real 550 lowers, furniture and mags in the US.

lysander

February 10, 2006, 05:03 PM

Some of you all are a very tough bunch to please...the introduction of this rifle is nothing but a boon to all who shoot "black rifles"...hopefully Sig scraps for market share and some price decreases on both AR and the Sig rifle get passed along to us consumers.

We should be applauding any new entries into this market space... :D

I am intrigued...and will wait with baited breath for SHOT show gossip. 5 Years ago who knew that we would be in a position where most of us could have the option to purchase one of several, modern military-style rifles?

AR's of all flavors, XCR, FN2000, FNP90 (not a "real rifle"...but modern and military nonetheless), SCAR, 55X series, etc. etc....

Viva La EBR!!! :neener:

pmbiker

February 10, 2006, 06:23 PM

I like it, I want one.

I don't dig the ar gas system, the daewoo is too exotic, the ar180b feels like a toy and the mini 14....naaahh. But dangit I want a 5.56 carbine and this might be it. I'll wait for the beta testers to report back, the market price will deflate some with time and I'll get one in a year or so.

Until then I'll start buying mags and ammo to prepare for her arrival.

Deer Hunter

February 10, 2006, 06:29 PM

Is it just me, or does the new Sig look a lot like the DSA GTC Carbine?

http://www.dsarms.com/images/Z4CROS.gif

Just an observation I made. I'd take either, but is there really a big difference between these two rifles?

TexasRifleman

February 10, 2006, 06:38 PM

Doesn't even look like a SG55x series rifle. I hope the traditional handguards and stock can be retrofitted to that monstrosity.

I'm still not sure why everyone thinks it SHOULD look like a 550.

The 550 design is nearing the end of it's designed life span. There have been many improvements to the carbine world since it came out.

It's so funny to me that on a forum where everyone goes on about tactics and equipment that a new product is being trashed because of it's looks.

Too funny....

Logan5

February 10, 2006, 08:02 PM

As a design, isn't the 550 about 30 years younger than the AR-15?

As it is now, it's not legal in my state, so I'm not getting excited either way. It looks like a nice enough rifle, and the AR mag compatibility is a nice touch.

Thefabulousfink

February 10, 2006, 08:11 PM

Exuse my ignorance.

Will this SIG have a recoil buffer in the stock like the AR? out of all the plastic combat rifles that I have held and fired, the recoil buffer in the AR not only gives the rifle very low felt recoil, but also gives it superb balance. Most other rifles like the M96 recon are horribly front heavy.

If the SIG does have a recoil buffer, I might consider it (just to be different from all the AR's at the range :cool: )

pmbiker

February 10, 2006, 11:16 PM

My guess'd be no. The 55x action is derived from the kalashnikov and should be configured similarly.

45R

February 10, 2006, 11:18 PM

Is it just me, or does the new Sig look a lot like the DSA GTC Carbine?

No :neener:

cbsbyte

February 11, 2006, 01:00 AM

Though this rifle will not be sold in Mass anytime soon or ever. Even if it was to be, I would not buy it since I could buy a complete piston powered AR upper for about $850 to attach to my lower. It does not make sense to buy this complete rifle, unless you are a Sig fanatic.

http://www.pof-usa.com/P-416/P-415-11-BP-SF%20upper.htm

Number 6

February 11, 2006, 05:15 AM

It does not make sense to buy this complete rifle, unless you are a Sig fanatic.

Or you want something other than an AR-15. It amazes me so many people are disparaging the Sig in favor of ARs. I like ARs and all, but variety is nice, and the Sig looks like they put together a real quality package. Sure AR-15s are probably more economical, but that does not mean that having a choice is not a good thing in a free market. If given the opportunity I would surely buy a Sig.

hksw

February 11, 2006, 10:57 AM

I'm still not sure why everyone thinks it SHOULD look like a 550.

The 550 design is nearing the end of it's designed life span. There have been many improvements to the carbine world since it came out.

It's so funny to me that on a forum where everyone goes on about tactics and equipment that a new product is being trashed because of it's looks.

Too funny....

And yet, throughout the lifespan of the 550 it has remained the same. Including the folding stock that swings away and provides an even shorter overall length, the drum rear sight, the integral bi-pod (on the rifle), etc. All things that seemed to work.

Personally, I am generally function first. But in this case, enough changes have been made to my dislike to wait until the original (or facsimilies of them either OE or aftermarked) working configuration is available. Never liked the M4-type collapsable stock (prefer a much smaller length when the stock is put away), with the exception of the MagPul one (very impressed by the high quality and engineered design of it over the others). But, if the original SIG folder is not available, the fixed MagPul will do. And I hate fingergrooves.

accomplice

May 2, 2006, 11:06 PM

I agree with those who say that this gun *should* impact the AR market in a big way. It is likely to be better on many levels but some people will still buy ARs so they won't go away.

Anthony

May 16, 2006, 07:45 PM

Greg,

That is nice that the stock is swappable with the SIG-550 folding model, but where on Earth would you get one in the United States?

Is anyone selling them?

Number 6

May 16, 2006, 09:36 PM

That is nice that the stock is swappable with the SIG-550 folding model, but where on Earth would you get one in the United States?

Is anyone selling them?

Sig is going to offer a factory folder as an option, so you can just buy direct from Sig.

chevrofreak

May 17, 2006, 09:26 AM

I absolutely hate AR-15's so this rifle sounds like the perfect gun to kick its butt.

You go SIG!

ny32182

May 17, 2006, 09:35 AM

I hope this rifle works out to be a nice platform, but as far as affecting the AR market... the 556 is going to shut down the AR market about as fast as the Sig 220 shut down the 1911 market.

Anthony

May 17, 2006, 12:26 PM

Does anyone have firsthand experience to compare the SIG-550 side folding stock to the telescoping AR style that has become the standard for the new SIG 556?

Opinions?

Cromlech

May 17, 2006, 12:54 PM

FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THINGS FLUFFY AND CUDDLY, WHY DO I LIVE IN THE U.K?

Someday, someday.

Just as soon as I get out of this crappy latrine of an island

accomplice

May 17, 2006, 04:05 PM

The last I heard, the one with the AR style stock will come out first (August) then the model with the side folder will be released (Fall) but it may have a proprietary lower on it. The swappability of the stocks is in question right now.

Anthony

May 31, 2006, 07:29 PM

Does anyone have an estimated price of what auxillary barrels are going to cost?

I'd like to get both a 16- and 20-inch lengths to take advantage of the 556's quick change barrel feature.

Glock Glockler

May 31, 2006, 08:23 PM

Anyone have any idea why Sig just doesnt release a copy of their military model sans the full auto?

Number 6

May 31, 2006, 09:16 PM

Anyone have any idea why Sig just doesnt release a copy of their military model sans the full auto?

Market demand.

Lobotomy Boy

June 1, 2006, 12:31 AM

The general consensus over at Sig Forum is that the changes represent significant functional improvements.