they play very different styles-- both are effective
instead of arguing who is better, can't we just appreciate that the league has two very young point guards with otherworldly ability?

why does every thread always have to devolve into a compare/contrast argument?
how about: "this guy is really good. so is this guy. they are both really good."

and John Wall's shooting struggles got me thinking, why is it that extremely athletic/agile guards tend to be such poor shooters? Sure, there are exceptions like Westbrook, but for every Westbrook there are five Eric Bledsoes or John Walls or Rajon Rondos. weird.

D-Rose was another good example, until he put in a ton of work on his shot... hmm I might have just answered my own question...

different players work on different things. There are only so many hours in the day....

Irving is the better player without question. John Wall is however better at passing the ball, facilitating or whatever you want to call it. I don't need numbers for that, even tho they'd suggest that was the case. Wall just has that natural knack for getting others involved. His rookie season he was throwing up double doubles left and right. Pretty sure he had that one month where he was averaging like 10+ dimes.

Defensively, getting others the ball is clearly John Wall just like right now it's clearly Irving who is the better player. Not even comparable because of his scoring, scoring efficiency, clutch play etc.

Irving has low assist but he is a damn pure point guard. He was drafted a pure point guard. His scoring is just better than expected.

Irving is still a pure point guard prospect. His vision is elite.

Assist depends on system and scorekeeping (Rondo is known to get 15% more assist in Boston, Hornets offense has always been PG passing dominated. Chris Paul's passing/vision/experience has gotten better with age but his APG is down, etc)

Not sure about this statement at all.

Of course i haven't seen too many cavs games, and most of what i see from irving are videos of his points and assists in a game, but from the few cavs games I've seen in real time i would say he's a good passer...not elite.

Trust me, I'd have no problem calling out a Kyrie fan if they derailed a thread. Kyrie's starting to get the inevitable 'player fan' following that drove me completely up a wall during James' years here. That is the only downside to your hometown team acquiring a really great young player, I guess. Kyrie's following is only going to grow from here. Some will be annoying, I'm sure.

No question Irving is the better player. His superior scoring ability is what ends the debate. However, wouldn't you say it's quite obvious that Wall is the better passer/playmaker/whatever?

No, Wall is a better athlete and defender.

Irving was drafted and scouted as the best pure point guard since Chris Paul. His vision is pure. His assist numbers are crap. It has to do with his score first mentality late in game, his lack of consistent teammates and the offensive system that Cavs run.

Irving was drafted and scouted as the best pure point guard since Chris Paul. His vision is pure. His assist numbers are crap. It has to do with his score first mentality late in game, his lack of consistent teammates and the offensive system that Cavs run.

Yes, and Greg Oden was drafted and scouted as someone even better than that.

Michael Beasley was drafted and scouted as someone who'd be just as good as D. Rose.

John Wall was drafted and scouted as someone who was apparently already better than Derrick Rose.

Scouts don't always get it right. They probably get it right about 35% of the time tops.

Anyway, I never recall the scouts saying all that about Irving's vision in the first place.