Lying requires intent. There is no way Simon intended to lie, because on August 9, 2013 he did not know BTC would suddenly explode in value, making full BTC refunds impossible. Are you saying Simon is psychic, or controls the price of BTC? Do you know how crazy that sounds?

Simon is no idiot. Of course he knew it was possible for bitcoin to skyrocket. He knew full well that the price of bitcoin could go up, making BTC refunds impossible. Promising full BTC refunds was therefore a lie.

It was also possible for BTC to collapse. So what? In early August 2013 BTC had stabilized at around $100.

Common sense (and any competent lawyer/law school student) should tell you that statement was made ceterus paribus. Don't speak Latin? Look it up!

The ridiculous No Matter What Even If BTC Goes To One Million DollarsTM interpretation was motivated by pure greed, defies financial/legal reality, and cost many people their opportunity for a 105% refund.

"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." David Chaum 1996"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect." Adam Back 2014

Lying requires intent. There is no way Simon intended to lie, because on August 9, 2013 he did not know BTC would suddenly explode in value, making full BTC refunds impossible. Are you saying Simon is psychic, or controls the price of BTC? Do you know how crazy that sounds?

Simon is no idiot. Of course he knew it was possible for bitcoin to skyrocket. He knew full well that the price of bitcoin could go up, making BTC refunds impossible. Promising full BTC refunds was therefore a lie.

It was also possible for BTC to collapse. So what? In early August 2013 BTC had stabilized at around $100.

Common sense (and any competent lawyer/law school student) should tell you that statement was made ceterus paribus. Don't speak Latin? Look it up!

The ridiculous No Matter What Even If BTC Goes To One Million DollarsTM interpretation was motivated by pure greed, defies financial/legal reality, and cost many people their opportunity for a 105% refund.

I'm curious as to how a 105% refund would've work out to everybody who'd requested one, in this case, everybody, after expenses to date (at the time) were already outlaid. According to my maths, even a 25% refund would've been impossible, but I'm part to blame as to why many/all didn't get a 105% when the offer was on the table.

Wrong again. Mail order refunds must be in legal tender, and must be (at least) equal to the purchase price of the item. HF machines were always priced in USD fiat.HF would have never been allowed to refund pennies on the dollar, for THE EXACT SAME REASONS they would never be required to hand out windfalls (dollars on the penny).

You are very confused about the basics of contract law. What HF owed (past tense, thanks to bankruptcy now we get scraps) for refunds is equal to the amount tendered at the time of purchase.

This was all covered exhaustively in HF's devastating response to Prof Morici's absurd windfall demand.

It's great reading and very educational. Perhaps dumb old cedivad will be so kind as to provide a link for us? I may have the .pdf around somewhere if not.

If you really were honestly confused about all this, and not just playing dumb to troll or get a windfall, I'm sorry. But many people have already explained it in detail.

"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." David Chaum 1996"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect." Adam Back 2014

I agree with you Syke however HF is now in Chapter 11. As I understand it is a recovery operation now. They are not attempting to save the company and the same boards that many paid $5k for are worth 350 bucks or less.

I had hoped the creditors counsel would have pushed a motion for immediate liquidation few months back but we are here now and it is what it is and from some of the vendors not fulfilling not mining ETC was/is a cluster F*** to work with.

My only request from all this now is I want all this to be finished this year so I can take it as a tax deduction. If I happen to get a check in the mail it will go to my next round of Spondoolies.

The guy who keeps brining up windfall can keep talking to all the law students you want. The only wind going on now is the kind coming out of my ass as I ate a lot of beans today.

I and others should have filed a debt memo for recovery as soon as HF missed shipped dates. This may or may not have been able to get full BTC back as they converted some via Bitpay but a judge would have decided that. Lesson learned however what United States ASIC company is left? All have ended up trash scammer liars.

This reminds me of MARVAL telling SONY that the Spiderman that grossed 1 billion dollars worldwide lost money.

How do you sleep at night knowing you fuck people over for a living iCEBREAKER ?

I agree with you Syke however HF is now in Chapter 11. As I understand it is a recovery operation now. They are not attempting to save the company and the same boards that many paid $5k for are worth 350 bucks or less.

I had hoped the creditors counsel would have pushed a motion for immediate liquidation few months back but we are here now and it is what it is and from some of the vendors not fulfilling not mining ETC was/is a cluster F*** to work with.

My only request from all this now is I want all this to be finished this year so I can take it as a tax deduction. If I happen to get a check in the mail it will go to my next round of Spondoolies.

The guy who keeps brining up windfall can keep talking to all the law students you want. The only wind going on now is the kind coming out of my ass as I ate a lot of beans today.

I and others should have filed a debt memo for recovery as soon as HF missed shipped dates. This may or may not have been able to get full BTC back as they converted some via Bitpay but a judge would have decided that. Lesson learned however what United States ASIC company is left? All have ended up trash scammer liars.

This reminds me of MARVAL telling SONY that the Spiderman that grossed 1 billion dollars worldwide lost money.

How do you sleep at night knowing you fuck people over for a living iCEBREAKER ?

I sleep very well, having done my best to ensure HF customers got their systems in good working order ASAP, even at considerable cost to my own interests. I also helped them fix post-delivery problems, to the best of my ability. What did you do to help, besides bitching on an internet forum?

Yes, maybe you "should have filed a debt memo for recovery as soon as HF missed shipped dates." That's on you, not me.

It's NMF you refuse to (or simply can't) grasp the simple legal concept of 'No Windfalls' and have to denigrate law students, in lieu of dealing with your well-deserved cognitive dissonance.

How dare you imply I've done something wrong without citing any specific charges? Take your undue opprobrium and shove it.

Gyrsur, I sympathize with those who thought they were getting into a risk-free, hedged 'sweet spot' deal, because I was among them as HashFast Customer Number 001C.

But once our mistake was clarified via the concept of 'No Windfalls' being introduced, only truculent greedy buffoons refused to accept reality. I have no empathy for them, only scorn.

Bicknellsi, you are a beggar. You just go around begging ASIC companies for Free Stuff. And when they say 'sorry, those chips are a hot commodity and we own them to those who helped pay for them' you get all butthurt. Nobody cares what 'collective' you claim to represent. Get a job and buy your dev kit like everyone else, you stinking mooching panhandler.

"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." David Chaum 1996"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect." Adam Back 2014

I agree with you Syke however HF is now in Chapter 11. As I understand it is a recovery operation now. They are not attempting to save the company and the same boards that many paid $5k for are worth 350 bucks or less.

I had hoped the creditors counsel would have pushed a motion for immediate liquidation few months back but we are here now and it is what it is and from some of the vendors not fulfilling not mining ETC was/is a cluster F*** to work with.

My only request from all this now is I want all this to be finished this year so I can take it as a tax deduction. If I happen to get a check in the mail it will go to my next round of Spondoolies.

The guy who keeps brining up windfall can keep talking to all the law students you want. The only wind going on now is the kind coming out of my ass as I ate a lot of beans today.

I and others should have filed a debt memo for recovery as soon as HF missed shipped dates. This may or may not have been able to get full BTC back as they converted some via Bitpay but a judge would have decided that. Lesson learned however what United States ASIC company is left? All have ended up trash scammer liars.

This reminds me of MARVAL telling SONY that the Spiderman that grossed 1 billion dollars worldwide lost money.

How do you sleep at night knowing you fuck people over for a living iCEBREAKER ?

He sleeps fine.

He like many of these people who have scammed and lied to the community have APD:

Antisocial personality disorder is characterized by a long-standing pattern of a disregard for other people’s rights, often crossing the line and violating those rights. It usually begins in childhood or as a teen and continues into their adult lives.

Antisocial personality disorder is diagnosed when a person’s pattern of antisocial behavior has occurred since age 15 (although only adults 18 years or older can be diagnosed with this disorder) and consists of the majority of these symptoms:

* Failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest* Deceitfulness, as indicated by repeated lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure* Impulsivity or failure to plan ahead* Irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults* Reckless disregard for safety of self or others* Consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations* Lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another

Common sense (and any competent lawyer/law school student) should tell you that statement was made ceterus paribus. Don't speak Latin? Look it up!

The ridiculous No Matter What Even If BTC Goes To One Million DollarsTM interpretation was motivated by pure greed, defies financial/legal reality, and cost many people their opportunity for a 105% refund.

"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." David Chaum 1996"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect." Adam Back 2014

Common sense (and any competent lawyer/law school student) should tell you that statement was made ceterus paribus. Don't speak Latin? Look it up!

The ridiculous No Matter What Even If BTC Goes To One Million DollarsTM interpretation was motivated by pure greed, defies financial/legal reality, and cost many people their opportunity for a 105% refund.

Nope. It was a flat out lie meant to deceive prospective customers into believing they'd get their BTC back if there were delays. Many customers would not have ordered if it were not for that lie.

Common sense (and any competent lawyer/law school student) should tell you that statement was made ceterus paribus. Don't speak Latin? Look it up!

The ridiculous No Matter What Even If BTC Goes To One Million DollarsTM interpretation was motivated by pure greed, defies financial/legal reality, and cost many people their opportunity for a 105% refund.

Nope. It was a flat out lie meant to deceive prospective customers into believing they'd get their BTC back if there were delays. Many customers would not have ordered if it were not for that lie.

You would have gotten your BTC back, if

1) the price of BTC had remained stable (have you looked up ceterus paribus yet?)and2) the legal scrutiny hadn't forced refunds to be in USD fiat

"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." David Chaum 1996"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect." Adam Back 2014

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers

Common sense (and any competent lawyer/law school student) should tell you that statement was made ceterus paribus. Don't speak Latin? Look it up!

The ridiculous No Matter What Even If BTC Goes To One Million DollarsTM interpretation was motivated by pure greed, defies financial/legal reality, and cost many people their opportunity for a 105% refund.

Nope. It was a flat out lie meant to deceive prospective customers into believing they'd get their BTC back if there were delays. Many customers would not have ordered if it were not for that lie.

An idiot startup guaranteeing BTC refunds with no cap to its value whatsoever. Also TOS specifically said otherwise. The statement was a lie but a fairly obvious one. Wasn't it? The assholes that promised that were lying and deserve whatever can be managed to be done to them which likely won't be much. But everyone who ordered. Can you honestly say you didn't suspect a thing when someone was promising BTC refunds at unlimited value when the only reason the question kept being asked was because BFL did the exact same thing earlier. Come on...

Common sense (and any competent lawyer/law school student) should tell you that statement was made ceterus paribus. Don't speak Latin? Look it up!

The ridiculous No Matter What Even If BTC Goes To One Million DollarsTM interpretation was motivated by pure greed, defies financial/legal reality, and cost many people their opportunity for a 105% refund.

Nope. It was a flat out lie meant to deceive prospective customers into believing they'd get their BTC back if there were delays. Many customers would not have ordered if it were not for that lie.

An idiot startup guaranteeing BTC refunds with no cap to its value whatsoever. Also TOS specifically said otherwise.

If HashFast doesn't ship anything this year, apart from Christmas cards, I get a full refund. In BTC.

Given the coins have appreciated 300% vs fiat since I spent them, I'm fine with that.

I nominate this for the quote of the year prize. (prize = paying trollers to troll you).

I call them trollers while a more fitting definition would be people employed with the sole goal of deceiving a community in order to get cash in form of preorders to be recycled and end up in their personal pockets.

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers

Does it really matter? Even the very first TOS has limitation of liability and force majuer clauses. The question is why a promise of BTC refunds irregardless of value any more reasonable then other idiotic promises like pirates promise of huge interest rates payable in BTC?Ice is right that those who told people not to take or cash refund checks did a disservice to them. Just say no to preorders and while at it say no to cloud mining. The next ASIC scam.