The lame bad puppet joke from Conan about a dog that defecates on and/or has sex with anything all the time?

If you're gonna put Kermit on the same screen with Triumph the insult dog, why not just throw Kermit into a dumpster and call it a day?

What, was the pets.com dog puppet too busy to do a scene instead

Unbelievable

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Triumph is awsome! I thought it was great seeing triumph use his trademark line on Kermit Sure Triumph may be a sort of anti-Muppet but he probably would never be seen on TV if not for the Muppets. If he had humped Kermit I might have had a problem but the small cameo was nothing to get upset over.
We all have different tastes, I like Triumph you don't. He won't become a Muppet regular or anything so don't worry. I bet all the people over at Henson love Triumph.

Actually, on Muppets Tonight there were a lot of sketches built around Howard. That is where he debuted. They were not shown in the US though, but they were in the UK and USA. Three minutes were cut from the episodes that aired on ABC in the US, and a little under four minutes were cut from the episodes that aired on the Disney Channel.

I'm another Newbie, so bear with me. A little history: I am a Muppets-from-the-80s fan, born in the late 70s. Loved the first 2 Muppet Movies, liked the 3, ho-humed the 3rd and 4th, and liked the Muppets from Space one.

I wrote a long, rambling review over at IMDB with the title of "The Muppets Return to Form" so go check that out if you really want another opinion. But overall, I thought it was the Muppet's best since The Muppets Take Manhattan! Everyone I liked was back, even if voiced differently. They seemed to take the "New Scooby Doo" route to things: pretend certain detours never happened (Scrappy, Loss of major characters) and win both new and old fans with the formula that worked in the first place.

I thought some of the more "adult" things were out of line - Pepe's comments about the topless club and Scooter's cage dance. I may sound a little prudish, I know the Muppets have always had a few blink-and-you-miss-it jokes like that before, but these seems a little more in line with the Simpsons than the Muppets. Triumph the insult comic dog?? Isn't that like having Kenny and Cartman on Mr. Rogers? At least they scrapped the Snoop Dog cameo.

But, this is the most promising Muppet outing in awhile. It took awhile to notice that some of the voices were different, but with Fozzie out front-and-center like the good ol' days of the Muppet Show, it showed the new guys would make Henson Richard Hunt, and even Frank Oz proud. The Muppets are in good hands again. And for the record, I really like Steve Whitmore's Ernie and Kermit. Some else said this, but this is the first Muppet outing since Jim Henson died that I felt that there wasn't any attempts to hide the fact that the main Muppeteers were retired or no longer with us. Even Scooter and Janice made me smile, since they've been mostly background for the last 10 years.

For those who are interested, Ratings were okay. NBC had the most viewers Friday night, and the Muppets had the 2nd best rating of their time block.

The human actors didn't play it "straight," like Michael Caine did with the Christmas Carol. They didn't act; they MUGGED, like most performers on most kiddie shows.

The guy who said he was going to "oil your chair" to the female character. What? Did we need that?

I kinda take back my "dumpster" comment earlier, but still, including Triumph was more than the inclusion of a stupid and dirty character. It negated the integrity of the Muppet characters themselves

How can you expect the audience the respect and believe in these characters when you toss in Triumph? The writers should be sent back to film school.

Sure, the Muppets parody pop culture, but there was little of that here. Merely DROPPING NAMES is not parody. Having Whoopi say "Spongebob isn't on," will really date this thing. Ditto for the name-dropping Kermit phone calls, too. Ah, well, it's hardly a classic, so who cares? Go ahead and invoke a few minutes with "Fear Factor" and mention the non-issue of "Reality TV." Duh.....

It woulda been great if they hadda left out the cornball heaven, got REAL actors and omitted Triumph.

On the positive...

Great performances by Kermit and Gonzo; I love Mel Brooks (he would've been a better God, too); and it was great to have the whole gang present.

I got chills when Gonzo was singing his miserable song in the mall......then.......he goofed up the lyrics and then Kermit and the angel showed up and ruined the moment. Dammmit!!!!

Pepe: "When you can help your friends and get REVENGE ON YOUR ENEMIES, isn't that what Christmas is all about?:" Hilarious! I loved that

Sam at a rave with GLO STICKS! Super funny

It was pretty good, but it sure won't be taking its place next to A Charlie Brown Christmas and How the Grinch Stole Christmas in the coming years, that's for sure.

Can anybody tell me why Robin was performed by somebody else?????????????????????????

For those who are interested, Ratings were okay. NBC had the most viewers Friday night, and the Muppets had the 2nd best rating of their time block.

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Hm...I'd question "okay". Usually NBC wins every hour on Friday nights, thanks to "Providence" (which has been cancelled, BTW) and "Dateline NBC". But not last night. The Muppet movie lost out to "48 Hours" and "Hack" and barely beat a rerun of "America's Funniest Home Videos". Here's what the TV ratings site Zap2it.com has to say about it:

"Thanks to "Law & Order: Special Victims Unit," NBC won Friday night with a 6.9 rating/13 share in households even though it only took the final hour of primetime. CBS was second with a 4.9/9, followed by ABC, 4.5/8 and FOX, 2.2/4

Among adults 18 to 49, NBC also led with a 4.1 rating. ABC averaged a 2.4, CBS 1.9 and FOX 1.4.

CBS started things off at 8 p.m. with "48 Hour Investigates" surgical procedures to lose weight (just in time for the holidays), 6.5/12. NBC was second with its movie "It's a Very Merry Muppet Christmas Movie," 6.0/11, while ABC came in third with "America's Funniest Home Videos," 5.2/10. FOX rounded out the top four with "The Brady Bunch in the White House," 2.3/5.

At 9 p.m., "Hack" held on to CBS' lead with a 6.0/11, ahead of the Muppets on NBC, 5.4/10. ABC went the comedic route with "The Drew Carey Show," 3.3/6, and "Whose Line Is It Anyway?" 2.9/5. FOX stuck with its movie, 2.1/4.

NBC's "Law & Order: Special Victims Unit," 9.3/18, was the night's highest-rated show and easily won the 10 p.m. hour. "20/20" gave ABC a boost to second place with a 5.3/10, enough to beat "U2's Beautiful Day," 2.3/5, on CBS.

Ratings information is taken from fast national data. All numbers are preliminary and subject to change. "

Somehow, I think NBC expected more for its 10 million dollar investment.

Also, understanding that people were actually suggesting that the Brady Bunch Movie might beat it out, that's not too bad...twice as many people watched the Muppets. Besides, NBC probably got enough milage out of the free publicity for Scrubs, Fear Factor, Conan, and whatever they could jam in to make it worth their while.

Plus, from what I've seen, the movie had nearly unanimous praise from critics, almost all of whom call it the Muppet's best in over a decade. I'd have to agree.

Originally posted by sidcrowe
It was pretty good, but it sure won't be taking its place next to A Charlie Brown Christmas and How the Grinch Stole Christmas in the coming years, that's for sure.

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That is sure true! I attempted to watch it with my three-year-old only to end up turning it off and at her request! Waaay too much sexual innuendo and even slapstick violence IMO to make this a holiday classic.

I guess most adult Muppet fans like it that way, but I was sorry to see them take such a (I believe you said it) smarmy turn in what could have otherwise been a real treasure. There was a lot to like, but as Emileigh said to me, "This movie is not for kids... it is for grown-ups!" To which I replied, "Why do you think that?" She answered, "Look at it! Just look at it." Are the Muppets really going to be able to secure their future this way?

I was hoping there would be more of a balance, something for everyone if you will, without making it inappopriate for children. And my little child missed a lot of the references, yet a second grader would surely catch Pepe calling Joan Cusack "hot" and staring down her shirt. I was kinda glad I didn't convince my neighbors to watch with their families. I would be embarrassed now if they had.

Same here. I was embarrassed to watch it with my mom with all of the boob jokes and we're both fans of Muppets. Hmmm.........I really don't want to say anything near how I felt about the content of the show because I'd be burned at the stake by you guys...but the Muppets are NOT supposed to be so dirty- they're made of cloth and foam! That's sick hearing them talk about sex and cleavage and stuff. Ugh.

Yeah I do realize that parodying pop culture is something the Muppets have always done, but today's pop culture is so crude and stupid that it's really out of the Muppets' hands what they parody.
Maybe it's now a question if society today- can there be room today for a TASTEFUL little puppet show about a little green frog, a bear, a pig, a band, a dog, a few chickens, and a whatever? I don't think so. That said, maybe the Muppets, as Jim created them and as we grew up with, are dead.

You guys bring up some *very* valid points. Yes it is gonna take some time to get used to the new 'edgy' muppet style(did you guys see Kermit on Craig Kilborn? Oh boy) and watching this I was thinking 'oh boy, some parents out there arent gonna be too thrilled'. Later I thought 'And people were worried about Snoop?'

Sure there was enough sex, drugs/alcohol, and offbeat inuendo to justify a tv-pg, but I think ever since Muppetfest(I'd feel blushed to even repeat some of the stuff from MF) there has definate been a decision to take it up a notch with what the Muppets can say.

But this isnt 1987 I realize, when MFC aired. This is a newer ADD audience, and if thats what it takes...I think though at the root of it all the Muppets are still who theyve been since the days of the Muppet Show. A tight knit concerned bunch of misfit friends looking toward their dreams and creaitivity.

People need to realize this is a new age in Muppetdom. From Israel to South Africa to Afghanistan to Russia the Muppets are more global than ever. I know people are complaining about the more frank sexual nature of the Muppets, but so what? Animal and Pepe's libido has been part of their schtick for awhile. There's now a Muppet with HIV. JHC is inching ever closer toward 'outted' Muppets, big deal. I dont think these things change the makeup or complexitie of the Muppets, I think it continues to offer a realistic reflection of life in general around the globe.

Originally posted by beaker People need to realize this is a new age in Muppetdom.

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I completely agree. And personally, I really liked this movie. Sure, it was a lot more edgy than we're used to for the Muppets, but I think they were definitely aiming for a more adult fanbase, as more adults nowadays are fans of the Muppets (and I'm talking about THE Muppets, not Seasme Street) than kids. And it is new, more corrupt world we live in. I don't think the movie would've gotten such a response without the parodies and innuendos and what have you.

And hey, Triumph IS cool! I love that dog. XD

I'll admit, at first even I was a little taken back by the edgy humour. But it still had that nice, warm Muppety feel. I mean, c'mon! How sweet was it when under the plaque it said "To the lovers, the dreamers and you". That made me feel all squishlicious inside. ^_^

And I plan on watching this with my mommy tonight! And I don't feel one bit odd about watching it with her with the boob jokes, and the rave scene and the gay pig... of course, this is the woman who's let me drink since I was 13... erm... I might've been raised a little different, maybe this isn't a good example. ^^;; But I still stand by it!

I'm glad someone brought up how this film fared with kids. It occurred to me almost immediately that few kids would really get into it. It was so bloody talky! I far preferred a tone where asides were made for adult viewers' benefit instead of presenting the muppets being smarmy and sarcastic. It always left the shows with a freindlier, warmer tone. Despite the fact that last night's movie wasn't visually dark, it sure felt that way. I really think they dropped the ball with this one.

About this new age of muppetdom being inappropriate for young children: I think that maybe they ARE trying to gear more towards adults now.
I mean, over the last few years, the muppets have been basically dead. Pretty much all of the fans are either from the teenage generation and older. The only muppets the children of today grew up with were the SS ones, and really, even the past few years of SS haven't really been very muppety. So maybe they purposely were trying to make this movie for an older audience. I don't know, but it's a thought...

Originally posted by FellowWLover
I so hoped the new age of Muppetdom would be one I could share with my daughter.

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Hey Jess,

What kinds of things specifically would you not want your daughter exposed to? This was a partial concern for me as well, but I can't think of much I'd really want to keep shielded from her. The rave scene wasn't any worse than some of the racier things we've watched together on The Muppet Show. In fact, I've found certain things implied on TMS that have made me blush. While she might not get it now, she's going to figure it out sooner or later... and often that's more dangerous than what's more clearly illustrated. I justify it by keeping a close eye on what she watches and dealing with speed bumps as we go along.

This comes from a guy who has not seen the movie but I still wanna express my opinion on everything I heard so far...

I personally think Henson did something absolutely DISGUSTING by bringing out this movie. They built up a great relationship with both adults and kids, and with all the sex humour, they're just dropping the kids like sandsacks.

Kermit and his friends used to be childhood heroes. Now they're just another bunch of Americans who get money by making sex jokes on TV. I mean, I don't mind sex jokes. I loved Saturday Night Live. But that sortta thing shouldn't have passed on to the Muppets. They're the only "safe" thing to watch. If they can't survive without cheap potty humour, they're gonna HAVE to quit.

Anyway, that is the reason why I hate this movie beforehand. I'm NOT gonna watch it. This is a crime. Kermit, Piggy, Fozzie, thanks for hurting people.

But You look at the three theatrical releases since Jim Henson's death. To me, MT and IVMC seem to be geared more towards older fans, while MCC, MTI and MFS more towards the entire family. In a way, since Jim Henson's death, the company has gone 50/50, in that some of their muppet projects "are" geared towards older fans. Compare this to when Jim Henson was alive...