I hope DS is successful as well. At the time of Max's fall, there were two other people in the house. And since JS nor DS was there, there was no way to know he wasn't being watched properly.

JMO

There were two other people in the house that we know of or have been told about.

katydid23

09-06-2011, 04:10 AM

BTW, why did LE choose hearsay over fact? Why take someone's comment about Rebecca Zahau's gym habits from January when you can look at and verify gym entry records?

Also, based on the LE photo of the door with whited-outed message, that message apparently not centered and ran way off to the right. Would that be the work of an artist? Or the work of a stager?

I don't know that you can compare the work of an artist who is in her right mind, with the work of the same artist, who might be feeling distraught, devastated and hopeless to the extent she wants to end her life, as gruesomely as possible.

MyBelle

09-06-2011, 04:12 AM

Just because LE came up with one scenario that fits doesn't mean there aren't other scenarios that could also fit.

LE has evidence. We do not so any theory the rest of us may have is not based on evidence. I think LE came up with a scenario that fits Max's injuries. Not planking.

MyBelle

09-06-2011, 04:14 AM

There were two other people in the house that we know of or have been told about.

That's rumor only. LE stated only 2 people other than Max per RN.

HowLoveCanBe

09-06-2011, 04:14 AM

I think you are being incredibly unfair to Max's parents. I doubt JS was "taking sides" with anybody. Max was his son. JS had every right to be angry without Dina prodding him into it. As Dad, JS anger at RN would be expected and completely understandable and have nothing to do with his ex-wife's feelings.

There was no planking involved. LE's illustration makes that clear.

JMO

I'm not saying that Jonah was not critical of Rebecca in his own right. I can see a scenario where Dina had been jealous and angry towards Rebecca for being with Jonah and possibly precipitating their divorce. If she had warned Jonah that she did not want Max alone with Rebecca this would be an opportunity to press him to cut his ties or take a stand.

I did not say that planking had anything to do with Max's death. I did say that the older kids may have been planking earlier and that's why this theory is floating around. If Rebecca knew and allowed any of the kids to plank around this would have caused concern for Dina and reason to affirm that she couldn't be trusted with Max and may have contributed to his death.

Rhyme & Reason

09-06-2011, 04:20 AM

If she did, there's a ritualistic aspect to it. Was she a methodical or analytical person? More needs to be known about her personality. Painting something in black paint makes more of a statement than just using a sharpie. It's bold and it's messy and destructive, and that is in keeping with the suicide. (I'm not convinced, by the way, I'm just saying.)

If this was a suicide, it was either a) an attempt to make it look like murder or b) an act of extreme self-loathing, someone who is extreme pain AND c) an attempt to hurt someone else (make JS sorry?) But these feelings, and the plan, wouldn't have appeared overnight. She would have probably thought of this for a long time, in other circumstances. Her sister said she wouldn't know how to do any of this and it didn't show up on her computer e.g. how to tie her hands like that, but she might have thought of doing it that way long before that. It's very punishing.

A friend of mine knew someone years ago who cut her own throat (a woman.) I remember him saying "think of the amount of self-hatred you'd have to have to do something like that." There is the possibility this is similar. She'd have to be extremely distraught, but the accident alone wouldn't cause that - it would just be the straw that broke the camel's back.

Question: why do people say her legs were bent? Where is that written?

There are pictures of Rebecca s body on the lawn, taken from a news helicopter & posted on fox5sandiego.com. Just to warn you, they are graphic images.

In FORBES as of 3AM re the door: 'The family attorney, Bremner, stressed that the handwriting has since been painted over – “whited out” – so no further analyses are possible.'

MyBelle

09-06-2011, 04:27 AM

I'm not saying that Jonah was not critical of Rebecca in his own right. I can see a scenario where Dina had been jealous and angry towards Rebecca for being with Jonah and possibly precipitating their divorce. If she had warned Jonah that she did not want Max alone with Rebecca this would be an opportunity to press him to cut his ties or take a stand.

I did not say that planking had anything to do with Max's death. I did say that the older kids may have been planking earlier and that's why this theory is floating around. If Rebecca knew and allowed any of the kids to plank around this would have caused concern for Dina and reason to affirm that she couldn't be trusted with Max and may have contributed to his death.

I'm sorry but I don't view planking as an innocent, victimless pursuit when a little boy dies as a result. He wasn't to blame for any of this. People endanger children all the time and yeah, that would make DS pretty angry but I don't view her reaction to be one of murder.

DS was the mother of a seriously injured little boy and I think it is unfair to blame her or accuse her in RN's death. If RN couldn't be trusted around the child, that is totally on RN, not DS, who may have had very good reason to be concerned. Her child did end up losing his life.

In FORBES as of 3AM re the door: 'The family attorney, Bremner, stressed that the handwriting has since been painted over – “whited out” – so no further analyses are possible.'

That makes sense. I think there are photos that are available for examination.

tiredblondy

09-06-2011, 04:32 AM

That's rumor only. LE stated only 2 people other than Max per RN.

I understand that LE stated that and that is what we were told.

HowLoveCanBe

09-06-2011, 04:35 AM

I'm sorry but I don't view planking as an innocent, victimless pursuit when a little boy dies as a result. He wasn't to blame for any of this. People endanger children all the time and yeah, that would make DS pretty angry but I don't view her reaction to be one of murder.

DS was the mother of a seriously injured little boy and I think it is unfair to blame her or accuse her in RN's death. If RN couldn't be trusted around the child, that is totally on RN, not DS, who may have had very good reason to be concerned. Her child did end up losing his life.

JMO

I think our wires are crossing. I don't think anyone was murdered. I think Dina and Jonah were expressing their grief and looking for a way to understand this tragedy. They may have blamed Rebecca for various reasons some of which concurred others which did not. I think they both pushed her away in their own manner.

I don't think that Max fell as a result of planking. I think he was running down the hall with Ocean to his left. I think he turned to go down the stairs and Ocean kept going straight. He tripped and flew over the railing. Nobody actually saw this happen.

In all this grief and searching for answers what ever interpersonal tensions existed between RN, DS, and JS as a triangle came to the front in a reactive way. That's all I'm saying here.

In FORBES as of 3AM re the door: 'The family attorney, Bremner, stressed that the handwriting has since been painted over – “whited out” – so no further analyses are possible.'

Hmmmm

MyBelle

09-06-2011, 04:52 AM

I think our wires are crossing. I don't think anyone was murdered. I think Dina and Jonah were expressing their grief and looking for a way to understand this tragedy. They may have blamed Rebecca for various reasons some of which concurred others which did not. I think they both pushed her away in their own manner.

I don't think that Max fell as a result of planking. I think he was running down the hall with Ocean to his left. I think he turned to go down the stairs and Ocean kept going straight. He tripped and flew over the railing. Nobody actually saw this happen.

In all this grief and searching for answers what ever interpersonal tensions existed between RN, DS, and JS as a triangle came to the front in a reactive way. That's all I'm saying here.

I don't believe running alongside a dog would have propelled Max at the speed he needed to go over the railing simply because the dog didn't go over the railing. And I still don't believe there was any triangle. DS, imo, had moved on and was not in any triangle at the time of Max's fall. Whatever happened to MS, I think DS it totally blameless.

JMO

HowLoveCanBe

09-06-2011, 05:13 AM

I don't believe running alongside a dog would have propelled Max at the speed he needed to go over the railing simply because the dog didn't go over the railing. And I still don't believe there was any triangle. DS, imo, had moved on and was not in any triangle at the time of Max's fall. Whatever happened to MS, I think DS it totally blameless.

JMO

If you are running full speed and you turn to go down the stairs and suddenly realize that you are running into a dog - you try and avoid hurting the dog. He could have easily tried to jump over Ocean and flew over the railing.

Of course there is a triangle - whether she 'moved on' or not. I've 'moved on' many times in my life and have been surprised by how emotions from the past can come rushing forward. They all had feelings towards each other some of which may have lied dormant. In this situation everything would have come front and center. Dina's feeling towards Rebecca would have come out pronouncedly. Dina's feeling about the relationship between Jonah and Rebecca would have come out pronouncedly. Everyone would have been very reactive capable of saying things they would regret.

Paladine

09-06-2011, 05:26 AM

It also states Max's death was due to cervical spinal cord contusion.

Thanks for that, just catching up...so, it was a high level spinal cord injury..:( With all the other doubts I have, I now wonder if he was pushed with force over the railing in a dispute, possibly...and Rebecca was silenced or punished for revenge...link, might have beeen posted, ya'll are too fast and I've been too busy...

"The single most important thing is there has never been a reported suicide of a female like this. Bound hands and feet. Gagged. A noose around her neck. Naked. Blood down her legs. A shirt wrapped three times around her neck. Tied to a bed with neat slip knots and square knots," Bremner wrote in an email message to ABCNews.com.

Because of the knots, and type of rope, among other things, AS is my #1 suspect, at this point. Wait a week...I may flop back. ;)
http://abcnews.go.com/US/rebecca-zahau-autopsy-raises-questions/story?id=14451270

Paladine

09-06-2011, 05:42 AM

Maybe the 'note' means nothing. Maybe the note's merely an intentional distraction...a breadcrumb to lead us down a garden path...the more confusion the better for a perp, in a case like this. Can you see the writing on the wall? Look at it...ponder it...get lost in it....attempt to decipher it...and we never will, they hope, IMO. Reminds me so much of that Jon Benet note...

Paladine

09-06-2011, 05:53 AM

Her legs appeared bent from the photos and there was 'blood down her legs', according to bremmer (link above)....hmmm...I do not think this was quick for Rebecca...I think she suffered...alot. And its maddening...hence, my absence of late...I just had to say that. Be well, friends, and, please...KEEP SLEUTHING! This smells...SO bad. I'll be back.

Paladine

09-06-2011, 06:03 AM

AND remember the observation one member had (sorry, cannot recall who) that Rebeccas shoulders also seemed to be pulled back, her hands must have been tied back with force. pretty tightly, by the shape of her torso in the photos...

Nude but for the tshirt she was sleeping in now wrapped around her neck and shoved in her mouth to keep her quiet, sitting in a chair, legs tied to chair legs seperately, hands tied together behind her back with force, causing her chest to protrude forward, somewhat...THAT'S what I see.

FYI: I also read a link that mentioned 'defensive wounds'...you can search or I'll try and post it tomorrow if no one has posted it previously...

Steely Dan

09-06-2011, 09:11 AM

There may well be some things coming out that show that RZ had a lack of respect for JS's family as well. I know this is a victim friendly forum. But people seem to be forgetting that Max was a victim as well. And I think it is perfectly reasonable to question what happened there.

By hiring a lawyer like Ms. Bremner RZ's family is showing a complete lack of respect for Maxie, imo. She is a known shark who does not care about stepping on anyone in her way, truth or lies. imoo

I don't know if the family researched her past. She's a lawyer and supposedly good. They want the truth and it could be related to Max's death. I don't care that Max died two days earlier. They have to get the police to investigate this as soon as possible. JMO

The police theory is based on actual evidence at the scene plus Max's autopsy. None of us here are in a position to say otherwise.

JMO

Everybody here is in a position to say otherwise. It's a free country with freedom of speech. With all due respect you seem to act as if it's ridiculous to question this investigation when there are so many unanswered questions, things that appear to have been purposely left out of the press conference and whiting out the message on the door so nobody will ever see it.

This board is set up to question investigations into crimes. There are quite a few cases in this country that have been ruled suicide but later re-opened and a murder conviction has been obtained. Personally, I don't want a murderer to walk free and there is more than enough evidence to believe this could have been a murder. JMO

oceanblueeyes

09-06-2011, 09:13 AM

That makes sense. I think there are photos that are available for examination.

Of course it makes sense. No one is going to let a message stay up on a door without painting it white again.

But I have no doubt that LE took very close up photos of the writing and also made a video of the entire room including the door.

oceanblueeyes

09-06-2011, 09:20 AM

Thanks for that, just catching up...so, it was a high level spinal cord injury..:( With all the other doubts I have, I now wonder if he was pushed with force over the railing in a dispute, possibly...and Rebecca was silenced or punished for revenge...link, might have beeen posted, ya'll are too fast and I've been too busy...

Because of the knots, and type of rope, among other things, AS is my #1 suspect, at this point. Wait a week...I may flop back. ;)
http://abcnews.go.com/US/rebecca-zahau-autopsy-raises-questions/story?id=14451270

But the family doesnt even seem to suspect AS. They seem more honed in on Dina, imo. The sister said that AS had taken a poly and passed and they wanted the others to take polys.

Why would a 'perp' volunteer information to LE about a part of the t-shirt was found in her mouth when he found her and cut her down?:waitasec:

It seems to me Adam has been very honest and forthright.

IMO

Steely Dan

09-06-2011, 09:24 AM

Of course it makes sense. No one is going to let a message stay up on a door without painting it white again.

But I have no doubt that LE took very close up photos of the writing and also made a video of the entire room including the door.

BBM

But the only released photos show the door sloppily painted over. I'm assuming they aren't going to leave it that way. JMO

oceanblueeyes

09-06-2011, 09:33 AM

AND remember the observation one member had (sorry, cannot recall who) that Rebeccas shoulders also seemed to be pulled back, her hands must have been tied back with force. pretty tightly, by the shape of her torso in the photos...

Nude but for the tshirt she was sleeping in now wrapped around her neck and shoved in her mouth to keep her quiet, sitting in a chair, legs tied to chair legs separately, hands tied together behind her back with force, causing her chest to protrude forward, somewhat...THAT'S what I see.

FYI: I also read a link that mentioned 'defensive wounds'...you can search or I'll try and post it tomorrow if no one has posted it previously...

LE discussed the cuts and abrasions found on Rebecca stating she came in contact with the prickly plant (a type of cactus) below when she went over the balcony.

As far as I have read the ME did not list them as 'defensive wounds' nor would they be, but that is being said by Bremner or the media.

IMO

packerdog

09-06-2011, 09:35 AM

I wonder if JS will sell the house now. I think I would after two tragic deaths happened in that house. It would be hard to go up and down those stairs.

jjenny

09-06-2011, 09:41 AM

LE discussed the cuts and abrasions found on Rebecca stating she came in contact with the prickly plant (a type of cactus) below when she went over the balcony.

As far as I have read the ME did not list them as 'defensive wounds' nor would they be, but that is being said by Bremner or the media.

IMO

But never said anything about injuries to her head. The woman died from hanging. Why is there evidence of blunt force trauma to her head? In four separate places?

jjenny

09-06-2011, 09:42 AM

Of course it makes sense. No one is going to let a message stay up on a door without painting it white again.

But I have no doubt that LE took very close up photos of the writing and also made a video of the entire room including the door.

<modsnip>? It's a possible evidence of a crime-how can it be painted over? It makes no sense.

oceanblueeyes

09-06-2011, 10:30 AM

I wonder if JS will sell the house now. I think I would after two tragic deaths happened in that house. It would be hard to go up and down those stairs.

I think he is going to have a very hard time selling this home.

oceanblueeyes

09-06-2011, 10:34 AM

Her legs appeared bent from the photos and there was 'blood down her legs', according to bremmer (link above)....hmmm...I do not think this was quick for Rebecca...I think she suffered...alot. And its maddening...hence, my absence of late...I just had to say that. Be well, friends, and, please...KEEP SLEUTHING! This smells...SO bad. I'll be back.

I think after 15-30 seconds Rebecca was unconscious. I do believe she did commit suicide. I believe the arms bent behind her back was from rigor mortis.

She used three pieces of the same rope. That is why she got the knives that are seen on the guest room floor so she could cut them to the lengths she needed. She bound her feet with one part she had cut off and then bound her hands with the another part and used the longer rope to put around her neck.

The small amount of tape residue found on her shins could have been how she took the hair off of her legs and it left some residue that wasnt washed off when she showered. She may have been so depressed that she hadnt showered that day. Imo, it couldnt have been duct tape wrapped around the entire shin area because more of the tape residue would have been found than an inch on one leg and an inch on the other leg.

Adam is the one that told LE when he found her she had a part of the t-shirt in her mouth. She may have done this in case she felt she may scream as she went over the balcony and didn't want to alert Adam where he would rush out and cut her down before she died.

As far as the blood beneath the scalp.....it takes very little for the scalp area to bleed. Imo, when she went over the weight mass caused the rope to swing back and forth and the top of her head may have struck one of the supports underneath the balcony. It couldn't have been an extensive injury since there was no bleeding in the brain cavity or the brain itself nor did it create any fractures.

The blood on her legs was from striking the cactus plant below the balcony. LE talked about that in their PC. With her hanging there for 4 hours gravity would pull the blood downward from her backside into her groin and her leg area.

IMO

oceanblueeyes

09-06-2011, 10:42 AM

<modsnip>? It's a possible evidence of a crime-how can it be painted over? It makes no sense.

Because they have captured it with photos and video images just like they do in all cases. It has been over 7 weeks and I am sure the home has been released. No one in their right mind is going to leave a message up there like that on a door in their home.

Once that is done then the scene can be cleaned up again. I think LE showed the whited out photo because they were trying to give privacy to the family members but even Bremner has seen the writing and a lot of experts can use those photos for analyisis to determine who wrote it.

In fact I wonder if it was in block letters at all but was just printed instead.

IMO

Quester

09-06-2011, 10:45 AM

Re: MS’ fall

Wasn’t the 911 girl caller said to have been “hysterical” on the call?

Would she be "hysterical" if she didn't witness the fall?

IF GS was there and injured in the accident, would she have accompanied MS in the ambulance to have her wounds addressed?

And, the two females that were driven in the police car from the mansion to the Coronado hospital could have been RN and her, so called, sister?

TIA

CuriousHousewife

09-06-2011, 10:47 AM

The small amount of tape residue found on her shins could have been how she took the hair off of her legs and it left some residue that wasnt washed off when she showered. She may have been so depressed that she hadnt showered that day. Imo, it couldnt have been duct tape wrapped around the entire shin area because more of the tape residue would have been found than an inch on one leg and an inch on the other leg.

Snipped by me. So, she was too depressed to take a shower, but took the time to wax her legs?

Carioca

09-06-2011, 10:53 AM

Snipped by me. So, she was too depressed to take a shower, but took the time to wax her legs?

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

oceanblueeyes

09-06-2011, 10:55 AM

Snipped by me. So, she was too depressed to take a shower, but took the time to wax her legs?

No that is not what I am saying. She may have removed the hair on her legs before Max was gravely injured and either did not have time or just didn't feel like showering after then or was in a hurry and simply missed getting it all off.

It sure wasnt duct tape that would have been wrapped around her entire shin/calf area for the residue would have been found in a lot more areas than just a small inch of it on either leg in the shin area.

IMO

time

09-06-2011, 10:59 AM

He sounds like a control freak!! My gosh, makes me wonder what other 'traits' he has.

Well, yeah, what would be the purpose of investigatin the men in your ex's life? I'd feel really weird if a partner of mine or potential partner was doing that, but imagine being that guy in that scenario. Of course, I wonder if they knew.

colette

09-06-2011, 11:00 AM

<modsnip>? It's a possible evidence of a crime-how can it be painted over? It makes no sense.

LE took the entire door with them, they said this in the Q&A part of press conference.

CuriousHousewife

09-06-2011, 11:01 AM

I imagine that forensics would be able to determine the difference between adhesive used to remove hair an adhesive on duct tape. I would be interested in the outcome of those chemical tests. There's really no need for speculation if they were thorough.

jjenny

09-06-2011, 11:02 AM

LE took the entire door with them, they said this in the Q&A part of press conference.

I know that. So how can they have painted it over?

SleuthyMama

09-06-2011, 11:02 AM

The reason that the cops did not mention the duct tape, imo, is because it was not necessarily a part of this case. The amount of residue was like 3/4 of an inch on one shin, and about the same on the other. That does not seem like someone was using it to imprison anyone. I think they figured out it was tape she used when she ran because of shin splints. imoo

Very small percentage of suicide victims actually ever leave a note. That was posted upthread somewhere.

We do not know what her true mental health history was. Plenty of people have mental health issues that are never recorded in any way for LE to see or shared with their families even.

BBM. But if they think she was naked because she had just taken a shower, wouldn't she have washed off any of this residue in the shower? Why would she still have it on her shins at that point?

CuriousHousewife

09-06-2011, 11:03 AM

Well, yeah, what would be the purpose of investigatin the men in your ex's life? I'd feel really weird if a partner of mine or potential partner was doing that, but imagine being that guy in that scenario. Of course, I wonder if they knew.

If you are a millionaire or stand to lose quite a bit if you are mixed up with the wrong people, I can imagine this kind of investigation, particularly if your new girlfriend doesn't also "come from money" and may have a questionable background (not saying she did).

I do think that JS sounds like he had the upper hand for sure, but some women like that.

jjenny

09-06-2011, 11:05 AM

Re: MS’ fall

Wasn’t the 911 girl caller said to have been “hysterical” on the call?

Would she be "hysterical" if she didn't witness the fall?
...

TIA

I've never seen a 911 caller in this case described as hysterical.

Quester

09-06-2011, 11:12 AM

I've never seen a 911 caller in this case described as hysterical.

You must have missed early posts that did describe her as being "hysterical" and that that was the word used per police archives from July 11th.

the caller was hysterical..according to dispatch..

RN thread #3, post #757

scorekeeper

09-06-2011, 11:17 AM

The reason that the cops did not mention the duct tape, imo, is because it was not necessarily a part of this case. The amount of residue was like 3/4 of an inch on one shin, and about the same on the other. That does not seem like someone was using it to imprison anyone. I think they figured out it was tape she used when she ran because of shin splints. imoo

Very small percentage of suicide victims actually ever leave a note. That was posted upthread somewhere.

We do not know what her true mental health history was. Plenty of people have mental health issues that are never recorded in any way for LE to see or shared with their families even.

BBM

But LE said she wasn't exercising........had quit in January and had lost weight.

And that information is BECAUSE they didn't talk to anyone about what she had been doing the past couple of months.....only in January

In FORBES as of 3AM re the door: 'The family attorney, Bremner, stressed that the handwriting has since been painted over – “whited out” – so no further analyses are possible.'

and who did that...the "whited out"

jjenny

09-06-2011, 11:26 AM

and who did that...the "whited out"

I really hope it's a mistake (in the article) and the message has not been painted over. Since police removed the door how could they paint it over?

SunnieRN

09-06-2011, 11:27 AM

The police would not necessarily know if she had any mental health issues if she never declared them or was sent for hospitalization or reported by someone.

As I have said several times, she had several huge mental health stressors happening all at once. And she had the recent shoplifting arrest, which may indicate she had some issues. All at once she had very stressful circumstances like her divorce, moving in with JS, taking care of his kids, some who disliked her, taking care of the mansion with no staff or help. Jonah is known to be a temperamental perfectionist with a bad temper, and she must have felt pressure. She gave up her job, which she was good at and left that life to be w/Jonah. All of that together is a 10 on the Richter scale of emotional stress. If you add this tragic deadly accident to that situation you haver the recipe for a mental breakdown, imo/

Yes, she had stressors, but if LE was trying to insinuate that this was a suicide due to mental distress, imho they did a VERY poor job.

The average person can be down or depressed over things temporarily. We all have stressors in our lives on a daily basis. Rebecca seemed active and capable of handling things in her life. I am not sure that she could keep from her family that she had emotional/mental health issues, for 32 years. That is not how mental illness works, if you are close to someone.

We also, at this point, have no idea whether or not there was staff at the mansion. Who were the people packing up and leaving after the incidents? It is possible they were 'hired hep'.

That's rumor only. LE stated only 2 people other than Max per RN.

There is a lot that was 'stated' in the PC by LE, but I think the PC will go down in history for what didn't get released to the public. There is much more to this story coming out on a daily basis.

In FORBES as of 3AM re the door: 'The family attorney, Bremner, stressed that the handwriting has since been painted over – “whited out” – so no further analyses are possible.'

So, if the door has been released, due to the investigation being closed, then who painted over the message and why? If JS went to AZ, with Ocean, and according to some posters, there is no hired help, who did paint over it?

SunnieRN

09-06-2011, 11:33 AM

Also, regarding hysteria during a 911 call, I believe that any 13 year old would have been hysterical under those circumstances, especially if they understood that the child wasn't breathing and didn't have a pulse. I don't think that is any indication of being a witness.

scorekeeper

09-06-2011, 11:33 AM

Of course it makes sense. No one is going to let a message stay up on a door without painting it white again.

But I have no doubt that LE took very close up photos of the writing and also made a video of the entire room including the door.

I'm sorry......I would not paint over it.....wouldn't you take it down, sand it and then repaint????? My gosh, this guy is a millionaire......

Did the police paint over it......WHY?

jjenny

09-06-2011, 11:35 AM

Also, regarding hysteria during a 911 call, I believe that any 13 year old would have been hysterical under those circumstances, especially if they understood that the child wasn't breathing and didn't have a pulse. I don't think that is any indication of being a witness.
I agree, a 13 year old wouldn't have to witness the fall to become hysterical.
It would be really important for us to hear 911 call (both of them). What exactly was said? How was it said? Why haven't they been released?

chasing.halos

09-06-2011, 11:37 AM

Well, yeah, what would be the purpose of investigatin the men in your ex's life? I'd feel really weird if a partner of mine or potential partner was doing that, but imagine being that guy in that scenario. Of course, I wonder if they knew.

They did know. And they were scared off big time. JS seemed to find something that worked as far as keeping men away from DS. No clue what his reasons were though. IMHO, an exhibition of power.

alexanderdavis

09-06-2011, 11:47 AM

What do "inside sources" say about RN's ability to tie these type of knots? Were there reasons she would have known how to tie this knots used in boating?

This is another reasons why the LE should have interviewed her family.
After all, in a missing persons case....that is where they start their investigation.
I say put all the info out and people will help solve this case by what they saw, what they knew, etc.

oceanblueeyes

09-06-2011, 11:48 AM

I'm sorry......I would not paint over it.....wouldn't you take it down, sand it and then repaint????? My gosh, this guy is a millionaire......

Did the police paint over it......WHY?

I really dont know score.

Since this mansion was built back in the early 1900s I would think they would want to keep the original inside doors if they could.

scorekeeper

09-06-2011, 11:48 AM

They did know. And they were scared off big time. JS seemed to find something that worked as far as keeping men away from DS. No clue what his reasons were though. IMHO, an exhibition of power.

BBM

Reasons - I don't want you (I have a younger trophy) but no one else is gonna' have you - No one is as good as I or meets my standards to be around my kid(s) - you made my life hell - so I am going to watch your every move and everyone you associate with.......what gives you the right to be happy......

My opinion only:loser:

oceanblueeyes

09-06-2011, 11:51 AM

BBM

But LE said she wasn't exercising........had quit in January and had lost weight.

And that information is BECAUSE they didn't talk to anyone about what she had been doing the past couple of months.....only in January

So they should have checked out the tape residue.

I have a feeling whomever Rebecca was confiding in back In January still had contact with her up until the time she died.

I think they may have meant the issues with the children may have started back then and were still ongoing.......especially with the teenage daugter of JSs.

IMO

jjenny

09-06-2011, 11:52 AM

I really dont know score.

Since this mansion was built back in the early 1900s I would think they would want to keep the original inside doors if they could.

In the photo it looked like any regular door so I presume it's not the original one from 1900. Also since police took it as evidence how in the world did it get painted over (assuming the article is correct)?

scorekeeper

09-06-2011, 11:53 AM

This is another reasons why the LE should have interviewed her family.
After all, in a missing persons case....that is where they start their investigation.
I say put all the info out and people will help solve this case by what they saw, what they knew, etc.

I think part of the problem may be that RN has not 'seen or been with her family' much since quitting her job and devoting all her time and energy to caring for JS and his children. Yes, they talked to her regularly on the phone but we can all be "okay" during a five minute phone call.

I think they based all their information about RN's state of mind from ONE person!!

jjenny

09-06-2011, 11:54 AM

I have a feeling whomever Rebecca was confiding in back In January still had contact with her up until the time she died.

I think they may have meant the issues with the children may have started back then and were still ongoing.......especially with the teenage daugter of JSs.

IMO
The friend is the one who supposedly had knowledge about her exercise patterns, not her relationship with GS.
The friend said she was not exercising (presumably in January?) but according to trainers at the gym she was exercising regularly all summer.

scorekeeper

09-06-2011, 11:57 AM

I really dont know score.

Since this mansion was built back in the early 1900s I would think they would want to keep the original inside doors if they could.

I can't believe that JS (or his assistant) couldn't find an approved individual that does nothing except restore/fix historical furniture and/or doors. I'm sure the historical society has a list of approved "handymen".

I can't imagine painting over the message and then hanging the door back up.....uggggg

oceanblueeyes

09-06-2011, 11:59 AM

In the photo it looked like any regular door so I presume it's not the original one from 1900. Also since police took it as evidence how in the world did it get painted over (assuming the article is correct)?

I don't know.

I am positive that LE has original photos taken of the message as it existed on the door when they discovered it.

When they deemed the case a suicide then all possessions taken from the home during the SW would be returned and then Jonah may have had someone come and cover up the message on the door and LE used that one to respect the privacy of the families involved.

The door looked rather old to me but of course well taken care of. If the inside doors were in good shape I don't know why there would be a need to change them.

IMO

Quester

09-06-2011, 12:01 PM

Also, regarding hysteria during a 911 call, I believe that any 13 year old would have been hysterical under those circumstances, especially if they understood that the child wasn't breathing and didn't have a pulse. I don't think that is any indication of being a witness.

How can you be absolutely certain that it was the 13 year old who placed the 911 call?

CalElliot

09-06-2011, 12:02 PM

My understanding that the full autopsy reports will be released today. Wondering if that's the case?

Was Rebecca cremated? If so, did Jonah Shacknai pay for it?

Re the released photo of the door, the "white-out" appears to be on the photo itself rather than the actual door. Other than Bremner comment, no way to know what state of door itself is.

oceanblueeyes

09-06-2011, 12:03 PM

I can't believe that JS (or his assistant) couldn't find an approved individual that does nothing except restore/fix historical furniture and/or doors. I'm sure the historical society has a list of approved "handymen".

I can't imagine painting over the message and then hanging the door back up.....uggggg

It may have been done for a 'quick fix' and he will have someone come in later on and do it properly. I don't think Jonah has even returned to the mansion since all this happened but he could have had a maintenance person come in and quickly paint over the writing.

IMO

CalElliot

09-06-2011, 12:04 PM

One possibility that lurks in the background: Who's to say Jonah Shacknai did not have another romantic relationship going beyond RZ who could have harbored ill will toward her just as DS did?

babette_gladney

09-06-2011, 12:06 PM

Greetings from San Diego. It's a beautiful rainy day today. Quite a lot percolating on this board. Thanks again, chasing.halos, for posting.

If JS tends to investigate the new partners of his exes, I wonder about his reaction to RN's shoplifting arrest. I can't imagine him not knowing about it. His investigations show a few things, in my opinion. Yes, a controlling nature. In light of child support, spousal support (not applicable to KJ at this point), and other post-divorce financial and real estate arrangements, he could well want to know a new bf's potential for financial manipulation. Gold diggers are not always women.

IWannaKnow

09-06-2011, 12:10 PM

As pointed out originally by Stella5, there WAS another set of prints on the balcony, aside from the boot print and the prints at the railing.

Hmmmm. I can get the main photo to open, and the one with the boot print, but not the two closeups of the foot prints on the balcony. Note from this photo, there are two sets, one at the railing, and one right at the threshold. I wanted to blow these up to look for rope drag marks, which it would make sense to me that they would exist if RZ bound her feet together and then hopped out to the balcony, but I cannot get the other two to load the larger versions. Can anyone else get those?
http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/images/rz-footprints.jpg

This is the enlargement of the boot print. I do not see rope marks to the right of it. I can't see a person hopping across this balcony so 'cleanly'. And why can't I view the other photos now?????
http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/images/rz8765.jpg

I'm wondering about someones suggestion that a tall person could stand in the room and place Rebecca on the balcony already tied up and push her over.

What multimillionaire has a security system they don't use when their mansion faces a public beach but will hire PIs to follow their ex's boyfriends and doesn't seem to need household help???? :waitasec: Was the door to the main house unlocked? WHY??? Would you, as a single woman, stay in a big house on a very public throughfare with the doors unlocked and the security system disabled - ALONE????? I would not, no way, no how. Even with someone in the guest house....if AS needed something, he could have called or rang the doorbell.....

The blanket on the overturned chair and the dryer sheet in the photograph makes me wonder if RN was changing the bedding in that room and got surprised by an unexpected visitor who brought their stuff with them in that garbage bag.

ETA: That boot print is VERY close to Rebecca's prints at the railing. I hope that person is no longer on the force. If they couldn't understand how important that part of the crime scene is, then IMO they have no business there....unless that was on purpose.

jjenny

09-06-2011, 12:11 PM

My understanding that the full autopsy reports will be released today. Wondering if that's the case?

Was Rebecca cremated? If so, did Jonah Shacknai pay for it?

Re the released photo of the door, the "white-out" appears to be on the photo itself rather than the actual door. Other than Bremner comment, no way to know what state of door itself is.

I agree, the "white-out" is in the image and does not appear to be on the door.
That's why I think maybe the article is wrong on that.

katydid23

09-06-2011, 12:24 PM

BBM. But if they think she was naked because she had just taken a shower, wouldn't she have washed off any of this residue in the shower? Why would she still have it on her shins at that point?

Sometimes this residue does not wash off that easily. That is why it's called 'residue' because it lingers even after the fact. I used to tape shin splints on when I ran and the residue stayed through a shower unless I scrubbed it hard.

IWannaKnow

09-06-2011, 12:41 PM

Rebecca seemed very concerned with her appearance. I can't imagine her running around with tape residue on her legs, especially with family coming into town to scrutinize her every move. If it were wax residue, why isn't it anywhere else on her legs? If she were splinting her shins, why isn't the tape residue on the INSIDE of her calves as well????? Did she take the time to wipe the residue off the insides of her legs but not the outside???????
http://www.cbs8.com/story/15388199/autopsy-rebecca-zahau-found-gagged-with-t-shirt-in-mouth

"On the anterolateral mid left shin there is a 1 x 5/8 inch gray piece of material and two smaller similar pieces just distal to it, measuring 1/4 inch and 3/8 inch (Comment: appears similar to tape residue). On the lateral distal right lower leg there is a 1-1/4 x 5/8 inch area consisting of three horizontally oriented, parallel somewhat evenly spaced, areas of sticky, tan-gray apparent tape residue. They are situated between 3/16 and 5/16 inch apart."

Makes more sense that she was sitting in a chair, with her legs taped to the legs, or her legs were taped together......now the question is WHY?

coastal

09-06-2011, 12:42 PM

I began reading this forum at the start of Rebecca's thread. I would like to see the thread names changed to Rebecca Zahau in respect towards her memory.

This is one of the most tragic stories I've come across in my life. I believe that both deaths were tragedies beyond intention. Not all things in life have a direct cause and effect. Unintended consequences arise from our actions all the time.

I think Max was running down the hall with Ocean to his left. As he turned to go down the stairs Ocean continued to run straight and Max tripped over the railing. The scooter was most likely at the foot of the stairs and fell over as Max came tumbling down with the chandelier. Jonah asked that Ocean be boarded up and all the kids were whisked away from Rebecca.

I believe that the message Rebecca painted on the door had to do with Max. She knew she would not be walking out of that room ever again. She painted it with her right hand and also placed her right hand on the door in a moment of contemplation. I don't think it was an accident that she did this in the 'guest' room. I'll get back to that later. She painted the message to strengthen her resolve rather than write something on paper that she could easily throw away.

'She saved him' - I think that she did what she could do after the fall to 'save' Max. The first part of the message was written to Jonah and Dina. They both blamed Rebecca as part of the natural grieving process. This was very hard on her. Not being able to see Max in the hospital was even harder. I think Jonah and Dina made the call to take Max off life-support a decision that Rebecca would have never made due to her religious beliefs.

'Will he save her' - The second part of the message was to Max, to his soul. It has been said many times that she believed she would go to hell if she took her own life. She was asking Max to save her own soul.

The ropes... It's clear to me that Rebecca had experience with ropes. With no disrespect, I think she shared this experience with Jonah in a very intimate way. It's quite possible that she was submissive towards him and they both enjoyed a healthy intimacy this way. This is why she decided to tie herself up the way she did - not to prevent herself from saving herself, or making it seem like a murder - this was a final loving intimate submission to the man she loved. The man that in a fit of rage may have verbally pushed her too far. Who may have told her not to sleep in his bed that night but go to the guest room.

The shirt... I believe that this was Jonah's shirt and that she often slept in it. I think she must have been feeling out of breath and hyperventilating. She wanted to have something of his close to her, but she also felt as if he was choking life from her. She put it in her mouth and bit hard with all the tears, pain, love, fear, and confusion she was experiencing.

Rebecca was a dynamic and romantic young woman. She felt she was an artist. She jumped outside to prove her devotion, love, innocence, and spirit. She did not want to hide from the world. The truth is we are all contradictions and nobody is perfect. This was not about humility or pride. She knew deep inside that her love was greater than the power or importance of this man's public and professional life. Her act was an expression of this love to each of us. In the end Rebecca wanted to say that she had no fear only love - a deeply intimate love. Sadly a love that met the tragedy of a young boy's accidental death and the anger and grief of her lover and his ex-wife.

I know this post is a departure from presenting just the facts. Some might feel that it is charged with emotion. I am writing this as closure for myself. This is what I believe now. If I am wrong and justice needs to be done - I hope all of you continue to find out what really may have happened. I also know that justice is not for men alone to judge. RIP Becky and Maxie.
What a beautiful post this is, HowLoveCanBe. Thank you for posting it, and welcome to Websleuths!

jjenny

09-06-2011, 12:44 PM

Sometimes this residue does not wash off that easily. That is why it's called 'residue' because it lingers even after the fact. I used to tape shin splints on when I ran and the residue stayed through a shower unless I scrubbed it hard.

There are also 4 separate injuries to her head. Which LE never even attempted to explain during their presentation. It wasn't mentioned at all. One wonders why. If a hanging victim is found with injuries to her head, one would think it's suspicious so if LE is convinced it's all kosher and there is nothing to it, why did they not even mention it during the presentation?

SunnieRN

09-06-2011, 12:46 PM

How can you be absolutely certain that it was the 13 year old who placed the 911 call?

Actually, I have no idea who actually called. I was responding to a poster who stated that one would not be hysterical if they had not actually witnessed the accident occurring.

I am not too certain about too many things in this case. I do think that anyone under the circumstances would be hysterical, whether or not they saw the actual incident occur.

I am certain that I need a lot more than conversation(s) in January to convince me that Rebecca was depressed enough to commit suicide.

I would also like to know why certain, imho, crucial evidence pertaining to Rebecca, was left out of the PC.

katydid23

09-06-2011, 12:48 PM

Rebecca seemed very concerned with her appearance. I can't imagine her running around with tape residue on her legs, especially with family coming into town to scrutinize her every move. If it were wax residue, why isn't it anywhere else on her legs? If she were splinting her shins, why isn't the tape residue on the INSIDE of her calves as well????? Did she take the time to wipe the residue off the insides of her legs but not the outside???????

Makes more sense that she was sitting in a chair, with her legs taped to the legs, or her legs were taped together......now the question is WHY?

There was only about 3/4 of an inch of residue on each leg. How does that equate to being tied to a chair leg? Or her legs being taped together?

When I taped elastic bands around my shins I used to only tape them at one area. No need for there to be residue at more than one location.

katydid23

09-06-2011, 12:50 PM

There are also 4 separate injuries to her head. Which LE never even attempted to explain during their presentation. It wasn't mentioned at all. One wonders why. If a hanging victim is found with injuries to her head, one would think it's suspicious so if LE is convinced it's all kosher and there is nothing to it, why did they not even mention it during the presentation?

I think it is very possible she hit the top of her head on the support bars below the balcony. If she swung back and forth after she went over the balcony she would have smashede into them, maybe even 4 times. And according to Wecht they were not hard blows.

SunnieRN

09-06-2011, 12:54 PM

I think it is very possible she hit the top of her head on the support bars below the balcony. If she swung back and forth after she went over the balcony she would have smashede into them, maybe even 4 times. And according to Wecht they were not hard blows.

These are injuries on top of her head. Again, look at the piece of rope over the balcony, add in the length for the slack in the picture and the length of rope from Rebecca and she was too low to have hit her head 4 times on the supports of the balcony.

If she went over head first, she would not have swung until after she reached the bottom of the rope around her neck. Certainly not hard enough to hit the balcony supports.

SunnieRN

09-06-2011, 12:57 PM

There are also 4 separate injuries to her head. Which LE never even attempted to explain during their presentation. It wasn't mentioned at all. One wonders why. If a hanging victim is found with injuries to her head, one would think it's suspicious so if LE is convinced it's all kosher and there is nothing to it, why did they not even mention it during the presentation?

Excellent question. This goes along with a t shirt stuffed into her mouth, after being wrapped three times around her neck.

Evan's Mom

09-06-2011, 12:58 PM

Because they have captured it with photos and video images just like they do in all cases. It has been over 7 weeks and I am sure the home has been released. No one in their right mind is going to leave a message up there like that on a door in their home.

Once that is done then the scene can be cleaned up again. I think LE showed the whited out photo because they were trying to give privacy to the family members but even Bremner has seen the writing and a lot of experts can use those photos for analyisis to determine who wrote it.

In fact I wonder if it was in block letters at all but was just printed instead.

IMO

I agree about the cleaning up the door within this 7 weeks.
It was probably released within a couple of weeks at the most.

I recently posted a blog about a murder scene we came across on our way to work one morning. We were able to get a lot of detail because we were maybe a hundred feet or so from the where the body was sitting.
A man was murdered by his girlfriend in his driveway. He apparently tried to get back in the house before he died because there was a bloody hand print and other blood that had dripped all the way down the front door.
It took over a week, but less than two weeks before it was released and all of the blood was cleaned off the front door. I am assuming it was treated as evidence because it was blocked off and people were using the side door entrance.

SunnieRN

09-06-2011, 01:01 PM

As pointed out originally by Stella5, there WAS another set of prints on the balcony, aside from the boot print and the prints at the railing.

Hmmmm. I can get the main photo to open, and the one with the boot print, but not the two closeups of the foot prints on the balcony. Note from this photo, there are two sets, one at the railing, and one right at the threshold. I wanted to blow these up to look for rope drag marks, which it would make sense to me that they would exist if RZ bound her feet together and then hopped out to the balcony, but I cannot get the other two to load the larger versions. Can anyone else get those?
http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/images/rz-footprints.jpg

This is the enlargement of the boot print. I do not see rope marks to the right of it. I can't see a person hopping across this balcony so 'cleanly'. And why can't I view the other photos now?????
http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/images/rz8765.jpg

I'm wondering about someones suggestion that a tall person could stand in the room and place Rebecca on the balcony already tied up and push her over.

What multimillionaire has a security system they don't use when their mansion faces a public beach but will hire PIs to follow their ex's boyfriends and doesn't seem to need household help???? :waitasec: Was the door to the main house unlocked? WHY??? Would you, as a single woman, stay in a big house on a very public throughfare with the doors unlocked and the security system disabled - ALONE????? I would not, no way, no how. Even with someone in the guest house....if AS needed something, he could have called or rang the doorbell.....

The blanket on the overturned chair and the dryer sheet in the photograph makes me wonder if RN was changing the bedding in that room and got surprised by an unexpected visitor who brought their stuff with them in that garbage bag.

ETA: That boot print is VERY close to Rebecca's prints at the railing. I hope that person is no longer on the force. If they couldn't understand how important that part of the crime scene is, then IMO they have no business there....unless that was on purpose.

Is that blood on the balcony, in the second picture you posted?

IWannaKnow

09-06-2011, 01:05 PM

There was only about 3/4 of an inch of residue on each leg. How does that equate to being tied to a chair leg? Or her legs being taped together?

When I taped elastic bands around my shins I used to only tape them at one area. No need for there to be residue at more than one location.

So you are telling me you only put one piece of tape on your legs about 2" long? What good did that do for you?

Taping technique for shin splints - YouTube

Note how the tape WRAPS AROUND the leg. The autopsy states that the tape was only on the anterolateral part of her leg. That means it was not on the inside of her leg. How do I get that that could have been taped to a chair? Picture sitting in a chair with your legs in front of the chair legs and your legs taped to the legs of the chair....you would ONLY have tape on the front of your legs, not the inside. Same thing if the legs were taped together....you wouldn't have tape residue on the inside of your legs. I don't know any clearer way to explain that.

deanna82437

09-06-2011, 01:07 PM

Is that blood on the balcony, in the second picture you posted?

Sure looks like blood when seen full size. Whose blood? Was it even mentioned?

SunnieRN

09-06-2011, 01:10 PM

Sure looks like blood when seen full size. Whose blood? Was it even mentioned?

Another piece of information left out of the PC?

IWannaKnow

09-06-2011, 01:11 PM

Is that blood on the balcony, in the second picture you posted?

IDK Sunnie. I thought the same thing when I first saw it, then wondered if it could have been bird droppings. It certainly does appear to be dried blood and would be off her left side. Was it her left leg that was cut? Could that cut have come from cutting tape off her legs with a knife?

Pach

09-06-2011, 01:14 PM

Forensics can do a microscopic analysis of the bandage(if there are remains of it) to determine if its the bandage used for exercising. if its masking or packing tape, there is no way that is used as shin tape unless her boyfriend was a tightwad. LOL.
LE can also or should have searched the house to recover all the tapes they can find and compare their widths or material with the tape used on her legs.

So you are telling me you only put one piece of tape on your legs about 2" long? What good did that do for you?

Note how the tape WRAPS AROUND the leg. The autopsy states that the tape was only on the anterolateral part of her leg. That means it was not on the inside of her leg. How do I get that that could have been taped to a chair? Picture sitting in a chair with your legs in front of the chair legs and your legs taped to the legs of the chair....you would ONLY have tape on the front of your legs, not the inside. Same thing if the legs were taped together....you wouldn't have tape residue on the inside of your legs. I don't know any clearer way to explain that.

time

09-06-2011, 01:15 PM

They did know. And they were scared off big time. JS seemed to find something that worked as far as keeping men away from DS. No clue what his reasons were though. IMHO, an exhibition of power.

Thank you.

Do you mean after they were separated? Divorced?

That is very creepy. It's making me wonder how this kind of thing played into the dynamics of their relationship?

I raised this before, that I think it was not smart of Dina to allow Jonah to release a joint statement - not smart if she is truly independent and seeking the truth about both these deaths, if he truly had a bent toward destroying her. Once you get in bed with the enemy and say it's ok for you to include me, you have a difficult time later saying they are the bad guy. The statement released implied that all that domestic abuse was really nothing and directly characterized it as a 'rough patch' in their marriage. Perhaps she agreed to do that because it actually raises some questions about both their parenting. Or, prhaps he didn't have her permission.

SunnieRN

09-06-2011, 01:16 PM

IDK Sunnie. I thought the same thing when I first saw it, then wondered if it could have been bird droppings. It certainly does appear to be dried blood and would be off her left side. Was it her left leg that was cut? Could that cut have come from cutting tape off her legs with a knife?

Hopefully when the autopsy report is released, we will know if the cut is on her left leg and how high up on her leg. It certainly looks more like blood then bird droppings to me.:maddening:

time

09-06-2011, 01:23 PM

BBM

Reasons - I don't want you (I have a younger trophy) but no one else is gonna' have you - No one is as good as I or meets my standards to be around my kid(s) - you made my life hell - so I am going to watch your every move and everyone you associate with.......what gives you the right to be happy......

My opinion only:loser:

Hmmm, interesting score... made me immediately think tit-for-tat. You are investigating my boyfriends/partners about being around our child or to use against me/control me even after the divorce so I am going to investigate your partner and let you know I do not want her to b e alone with our child.

Dec 2010 (?) When Rebecca quit her job to spend more time with the kids and Jonah

Mar 2011 When Dina said I don't want her alone with my kids

Not sure I have the dates right, but my bet is that there is a timeline that should be looked at to show how these events (and more) intersect, possibly escalate? I don't know

time

09-06-2011, 01:25 PM

The friend is the one who supposedly had knowledge about her exercise patterns, not her relationship with GS.
The friend said she was not exercising (presumably in January?) but according to trainers at the gym she was exercising regularly all summer.

Would she possibly have been busy moving, integrating with Jonah's household about then?

scorekeeper

09-06-2011, 01:28 PM

Is that blood on the balcony, in the second picture you posted?

Can't be; wasn't mentioned during the dog and pony show........:crazy:

"Her texts referenced were from a year before and benign. And the claim that she had lost weight and didn't work out was not true and admittedly was from six months prior."

Bremner has said she plans to formally request the Sheriff's Department reopen Zahau's death investigation.

She added: "This investigation shouldn't have had an ending Friday. It should have had a beginning."

SunnieRN

09-06-2011, 01:38 PM

It almost sounds as if someone is reading here.:seeya:

deanna82437

09-06-2011, 01:41 PM

Hmmm, interesting score... made me immediately think tit-for-tat. You are investigating my boyfriends/partners about being around our child or to use against me/control me even after the divorce so I am going to investigate your partner and let you know I do not want her to b e alone with our child.

Dec 2010 (?) When Rebecca quit her job to spend more time with the kids and Jonah

Mar 2011 When Dina said I don't want her alone with my kids

Not sure I have the dates right, but my bet is that there is a timeline that should be looked at to show how these events (and more) intersect, possibly escalate? I don't know

Feb 2011 Rebecca's divorce final

Pach

09-06-2011, 01:44 PM

they can also ask the trainers and staff at the gym if Rebecca ever used or uses tape for the shins/legs.

Forensics can do a microscopic analysis of the bandage(if there are remains of it) to determine if its the bandage used for exercising. if its masking or packing tape, there is no way that is used as shin tape unless her boyfriend was a tightwad. LOL.
LE can also or should have searched the house to recover all the tapes they can find and compare their widths or material with the tape used on her legs.

"Her texts referenced were from a year before and benign. And the claim that she had lost weight and didn't work out was not true and admittedly was from six months prior."

Bremner has said she plans to formally request the Sheriff's Department reopen Zahau's death investigation.

She added: "This investigation shouldn't have had an ending Friday. It should have had a beginning."

I take it this is inference to the phone journal? If they are really benign and a date can be set based on what she was writing, then I truly think the Sheriff's Dept. were just using it and being so secretively to try and bolster their flimsy case for how she could be so suicidal. Not cool at all if that is true.

Thanks to whoever raised the question of the prints on the balcony and 'where is the rope trail'? if there is none, then are we to believe that in addition to having her hands bound and holding onto another piece of rope, having a noose around her neck, hopping to the edge with her feet bound (is that onto one foot only?) and her mouth gagged, she also was holding onto the long roper or had it over her shoulder and there wasn't enough slack in that long rope even given all that that it made a trail?

I just can't see the 11" in the dust either for all the reasons already mentioned and those dimension would only fit exactly at her waistline not her hips or chest.

time

09-06-2011, 01:46 PM

Feb 2011 Rebecca's divorce final

thank you ... fits right before the demand from Dina.

Quester

09-06-2011, 01:48 PM

Actually, I have no idea who actually called. I was responding to a poster who stated that one would not be hysterical if they had not actually witnessed the accident occurring.

I am not too certain about too many things in this case. I do think that anyone under the circumstances would be hysterical, whether or not they saw the actual incident occur.

I am certain that I need a lot more than conversation(s) in January to convince me that Rebecca was depressed enough to commit suicide.

I would also like to know why certain, imho, crucial evidence pertaining to Rebecca, was left out of the PC.

BBM - Sorry SunnieRN - I didn't mean to single you out. :seeya:

I should have phrased my previous question as follows:

How can WE be absolutely certain that it was the 13 year old, so called sister of RN, who placed the 911 call?

scorekeeper

09-06-2011, 01:50 PM

they can also ask the trainers and staff at the gym if Rebecca ever used or uses tape for the shins/legs.

heck, they didn't acknowledge that she had been recently working out. For some reason they were not reading the newspaper or watching the news....we knew she was still exercising from our searches.......

WTH were they doing during those 7 weeks......playing tiddlywinks?:great:

scorekeeper

09-06-2011, 01:51 PM

It almost sounds as if someone is reading here.:seeya:

It sure hasn't been LE

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

scorekeeper

09-06-2011, 02:01 PM

Has the autopsy report been released yet? An earlier poster said it was going to be released today.

Morag

09-06-2011, 02:04 PM

I wonder if there was a line of dust on her torso from the balcony rail?

SunnieRN

09-06-2011, 02:06 PM

they can also ask the trainers and staff at the gym if Rebecca ever used or uses tape for the shins/legs.

That would have meant that LE talked to the gym, trainers and employees of the gym, and not relied on hearsay that was 6 months old.:innocent:

Quester

09-06-2011, 02:15 PM

9/6 ROL: [JS] Was Telling People Girlfriend Killed Herself On Day Her Body Was Found

... [RZ]'s sister ... "[JS] told my husband, on the day that [RZ] died, that she had killed herself.

"When my husband had told me what happened ... I knew there was no way that was true.

"[JS] told [RN] not to visit [the hospital], because he wanted to avoid a confrontation between [RZ] and [DS] ..."

So some portion of her torso- waist or side- should have dust on it as well, if she leaned over in order to fling herself over.

Steely Dan

09-06-2011, 02:31 PM

Re: MS’ fall

Wasn’t the 911 girl caller said to have been “hysterical” on the call?

Would she be "hysterical" if she didn't witness the fall?

IF GS was there and injured in the accident, would she have accompanied MS in the ambulance to have her wounds addressed?

And, the two females that were driven in the police car from the mansion to the Coronado hospital could have been RN and her, so called, sister?

TIA

BBM

If I walked around the corner and found what appeared to be a dead person on the floor I think I'd be hysterical too. JMO

Also, regarding hysteria during a 911 call, I believe that any 13 year old would have been hysterical under those circumstances, especially if they understood that the child wasn't breathing and didn't have a pulse. I don't think that is any indication of being a witness.

I'm 47 and as I just said I'd be hysterical.

I'm sorry......I would not paint over it.....wouldn't you take it down, sand it and then repaint????? My gosh, this guy is a millionaire......

Did the police paint over it......WHY?

Good question.

Has the autopsy report been released yet? An earlier poster said it was going to be released today.

I thought it had been sealed.

coastal

09-06-2011, 02:35 PM

How in Heaven's name did Max's blood test positive for benzos?
I don't like the sound of that one little bit.
If he were positive for almost anything else but benzos, I could believe in a false positive (truth: I tested positive for methamphetamine once even though I'd never taken it :innocent:) but benzos? Dear God.

They'd better have checked again!

deanna82437

09-06-2011, 02:36 PM

This page, even though it would be considered a blog, I guess, seems very much consistent with the facts known here. She has a simple timeline which gives some pertinent dates and info for anyone interested. She is from Arizona so may have a particular interest in this case.

Oh, yeah......can't wait to read the transcript from that call!! I hope they are calling every hour!! If radaronline is expecting a callback, they are going to be

:waiting::waiting::waiting:

Better go ahead and call the PR firm; JS is probably busy back at work.....

wonder if he had his eye on another young lady??? Doesn't seem the type to go without a partner for long....

time

09-06-2011, 02:46 PM

I wonder if there was a line of dust on her torso from the balcony rail?

You, my friend, are now officially dubbed Sherlock Morag!

elfie

09-06-2011, 02:51 PM

I really hope it's a mistake (in the article) and the message has not been painted over. Since police removed the door how could they paint it over?

I hope it's a mistake and that a photoshopping white out has been confused for an actual over-painting. Although, black bars are normally used for censored info. Hmmm.

CuriousHousewife

09-06-2011, 02:52 PM

How in Heaven's name did Max's blood test positive for benzos?
I don't like the sound of that one little bit.
If he were positive for almost anything else but benzos, I could believe in a false positive (truth: I tested positive for methamphetamine once even though I'd never taken it :innocent:) but benzos? Dear God.

They'd better have checked again!

If he had ADHD or some kind of sleeping disorder, it's possible he was rx'd benzos. They *are* used in children, and don't have to be very high doses to help with sleep, but stay in the system for many days.

Some medications that are commonly known to cause false positives: Tylenol PM, some antidepressants and other medications containing Benadryl, and the list goes on.

CuriousHousewife

09-06-2011, 02:53 PM

I hope it's a mistake and that a photoshopping white out has been confused for an actual over-painting. Although, black bars are normally used for censored into. Hmmm.

I didn't think anyone really thought it was painted over. It looks obviously like a bad/quick photoshopping. It doesn't appear in any way to be paint on the door.

time

09-06-2011, 02:54 PM

This page, even though it would be considered a blog, I guess, seems very much consistent with the facts known here. She has a simple timeline which gives some pertinent dates and info for anyone interested. She is from Arizona so may have a particular interest in this case.

Interesting poll. With 154 voting --> 47% said 'Someone Who Was Hired To Kill Her'

She says Dina's last name is Mareno though... think it's a mistake and is Romano?

Pach

09-06-2011, 02:57 PM

1.) we need to know the exact wording , tone and voice level of JS when he made that 12:50 am call to Rebecca. Was he angry ? was he accusing ? was he sad when he broke the news ?

2.) Why was JS so confident on the day Rebecca died that it was a suicide ? Does he know something we do not know that makes him so confident of this suicide proclamation ? is that all he told friends that it was a suicide ? did he at least add something such as , "I hope police get to the bottom of this" or "no way, I cant believe she would do this". This would give us an idea of his frame of mind.

IWannaKnow

09-06-2011, 02:59 PM

This photo has been blacked out.
http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/images/rz8766.jpg

This is the enlargment of the balcony....only it isn't there anymore. If you look at the top left corner, you can see a tiny portion that was missed, a portion of the measuring device outlining the boot print. Now who would want that gone???? Also this one:
http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/images/rz8764.jpg

Also an enlargement of the prints on the balcony. What gives? That one is simply MIA. Did these get "erased" like the voice/text message and now the painting on the door?

ETA: Those are the only missing enlargements. I just went through them ALL, and those closeups of the balcony tiles with the boot and foot prints are the only ones missing.

Pach

09-06-2011, 03:00 PM

we better download all the files before they are all gone LOL

This photo has been blacked out.
http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/images/rz8766.jpg

This is the enlargment of the balcony....only it isn't there anymore. If you look at the top left corner, you can see a tiny portion that was missed, a portion of the measuring device outlining the boot print. Now who would want that gone???? Also this one:
http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/images/rz8764.jpg

What gives? That one is simply MIA. Did these get "erased" like the voice/text message and now the painting on the door?

Oh, yeah......can't wait to read the transcript from that call!! I hope they are calling every hour!! If radaronline is expecting a callback, they are going to be

:waiting::waiting::waiting:

Better go ahead and call the PR firm; JS is probably busy back at work.....

wonder if he had his eye on another young lady??? Doesn't seem the type to go without a partner for long....

I don't think I would call radaronline back either. Would you?
Even if I was just someone with casual contact with JS, I don't think I'd return a call from radar.
That being said, if I had nothing to hide, I might return a call or have an assistant return a call from a more reputable news site, just not radar or tmz.

IWannaKnow

09-06-2011, 03:07 PM

we better download all the files before they are all gone LOL

NO KIDDING! I thought about that on Friday, then thought "Nah, they are on the Sheriff's web site....they will be there". Not!

I find this very curious, and would love it if someone can come up with a computer glitch way I'm missing something, and not that evidence is being *poofed* away.

deanna82437

09-06-2011, 03:13 PM

The family's attorney, Anne Bremner, will be on HLN's Issues tonight with Jane Velez Mitchell @7:00pm Eastern, if anyone is interested.

time

09-06-2011, 03:14 PM

This photo has been blacked out.
http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/images/rz8766.jpg

This is the enlargment of the balcony....only it isn't there anymore. If you look at the top left corner, you can see a tiny portion that was missed, a portion of the measuring device outlining the boot print. Now who would want that gone???? Also this one:
http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/images/rz8764.jpg

Also an enlargement of the prints on the balcony. What gives? That one is simply MIA. Did these get "erased" like the voice/text message and now the painting on the door?

I'm not exactly following what you are saying? If somethings missing or changed can we get originals to compare to the current status?

Also, is it just me or in the prints by the balcony edge are there two feet - one sort of looks like tread on a shoe? Or double rpints.

http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/images/rz-footprints.jpg

When I first looked at the officers shoe and the two prints of Rebecca's (bottom pic at the link above) it made me think a person could be in front of her simultaneously, perhaps pulling a rope/controlling her or holding her up.

But also those print of hers look very fat, like they are double prints or there is sideways movement. Not clean at least like she stepped down and stayed int hat position. Maybe this would happen if you had a hard time with balance, but I don't know.

deanna82437

09-06-2011, 03:17 PM

This photo has been blacked out.
http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/images/rz8766.jpg

This is the enlargment of the balcony....only it isn't there anymore. If you look at the top left corner, you can see a tiny portion that was missed, a portion of the measuring device outlining the boot print. Now who would want that gone???? Also this one:
http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/images/rz8764.jpg

Also an enlargement of the prints on the balcony. What gives? That one is simply MIA. Did these get "erased" like the voice/text message and now the painting on the door?

ETA: Those are the only missing enlargements. I just went through them ALL, and those closeups of the balcony tiles with the boot and foot prints are the only ones missing.

Are either of those the one with the (maybe) blood spots? If so, I saved that one.

IWannaKnow

09-06-2011, 03:18 PM

Well, I just tried to save that picture and blow it up to look at it. Pixelates. Can't see a thing. Whereas the sheriff's dept photo was nice and clear.....

elementry

09-06-2011, 03:18 PM

BTW, why did LE choose hearsay over fact? Why take someone's comment about Rebecca Zahau's gym habits from January when you can look at and verify gym entry records?

Also, based on the LE photo of the door with whited-out message, that message apparently not centered and ran way off to the right. Would that be the work of an artist? Or the work of a stager?

Another odd thing I read last night. Unless I misunderstood, Attorney Bremner stated that as to the door in question that we've seen with the message whited out: this was not just a computer-generated white-out, but LE actually painted it over! I feel I must have read incorrectly. Why on earth would LE alter the evidence and preclude further analysis of the paint marks in question? maybe it's not crucial, but what's with the evidence alteration.

It goes with the footprint of the officer on the balcony: just one footprint, but the implication is that they were trudging around that room at will; who knows what other footprint evidence might have been gleaned off the carpeting otherwise. In fact, was there even any testimony at the presentation regarding attempts to divine footprint impressions on the carpet?

SunnieRN

09-06-2011, 03:19 PM

This photo has been blacked out.
http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/images/rz8766.jpg

This is the enlargment of the balcony....only it isn't there anymore. If you look at the top left corner, you can see a tiny portion that was missed, a portion of the measuring device outlining the boot print. Now who would want that gone???? Also this one:
http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/images/rz8764.jpg

Also an enlargement of the prints on the balcony. What gives? That one is simply MIA. Did these get "erased" like the voice/text message and now the painting on the door?

ETA: Those are the only missing enlargements. I just went through them ALL, and those closeups of the balcony tiles with the boot and foot prints are the only ones missing.

So, who would want to do that? LE to cover their rear, someone who is the actual owner of the boot print, have always wondered if it actually does belong to a LE officer, as most are not that incompetent. Lawyers for either side of the case for an unknown reason to us. I am sure there are a lot more possibilities, I just can't think of them with my sinus infected brain right now.:crazy:

As for why? That one may be easier to answer.

askfornina

09-06-2011, 03:20 PM

http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/images/door.jpg

has the rope in this picture near the door handle been addressed? i know someone pointed it out earlier but any idea where the heck it's coming from/going toward?

ETA: is that a little black paint under the knob?

deanna82437

09-06-2011, 03:22 PM

http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/images/door.jpg

has the rope in this picture near the door handle been addressed? i know someone pointed it out earlier but any idea where the heck it's coming from/going toward?

I believe that it was going from the bed out to the balcony. Nothing to do with that door. Was posted upthread somewhere. :crazy:

IWannaKnow

09-06-2011, 03:22 PM

I'm not exactly following what you are saying? If somethings missing or changed can we get originals to compare to the current status?

time, look at this link:
http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/images/rz8766.jpg

It would be the enlargement of the balcony, fourth row, first column. The prints right in front of the threshold of the door. It isn't there anymore. If you click on the print, it used to enlarge. The link above is supposed to be the enlargement of that photo. It isn't there any more. Look at the very top left corner. They missed a line of the measurement device they had around the boot print....

SunnieRN

09-06-2011, 03:22 PM

Are either of those the one with the (maybe) blood spots? If so, I saved that one.

Maybe that is why it disappeared. How do you explain away blood on a balcony, that is from plants following a fall?

katydid23

09-06-2011, 03:26 PM

So you are telling me you only put one piece of tape on your legs about 2" long? What good did that do for you?

Note how the tape WRAPS AROUND the leg. The autopsy states that the tape was only on the anterolateral part of her leg. That means it was not on the inside of her leg. How do I get that that could have been taped to a chair? Picture sitting in a chair with your legs in front of the chair legs and your legs taped to the legs of the chair....you would ONLY have tape on the front of your legs, not the inside. Same thing if the legs were taped together....you wouldn't have tape residue on the inside of your legs. I don't know any clearer way to explain that.

NO, I put thick elastic bands which are made for shin splints around my shins, and tp keep them from slipping around I would tape them in place.

And if you taped someones legs together, you are telling me you would only need 3/4 of an inch of duct tape on each leg?

IWannaKnow

09-06-2011, 03:26 PM

So, who would want to do that? LE to cover their rear, someone who is the actual owner of the boot print, have always wondered if it actually does belong to a LE officer, as most are not that incompetent. Lawyers for either side of the case for an unknown reason to us. I am sure there are a lot more possibilities, I just can't think of them with my sinus infected brain right now.:crazy:

As for why? That one may be easier to answer.

BUT, it ISN'T the boot print!!! It was the enlargement of the set of prints right in front of the threshold of the door!!!!!!!!! Supposedly Rebeccas!

askfornina

09-06-2011, 03:27 PM

I believe that it was going from the bed out to the balcony. Nothing to do with that door. Was posted upthread somewhere. :crazy:

lol, if you say so! :) i thought that may have been the case, but i guess i'm just having a hard time picturing the angle.

SunnieRN

09-06-2011, 03:27 PM

Try this link
http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/index.html

Is it still here? Or is there another picture that is missing? I still see them here so far anyway.

SunnieRN

09-06-2011, 03:31 PM

BUT, it ISN'T the boot print!!! It was the enlargement of the set of prints right in front of the threshold of the door!!!!!!!!! Supposedly Rebeccas!

So, why would that particular picture get pulled? As you saw above, I can't figure it out.

IWannaKnow

09-06-2011, 03:32 PM

Try this link
http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/index.html

Is it still here? Or is there another picture that is missing? I still see them here so far anyway.

Go to the link you just posted and click on the fourth photo down, first column (the picture of the tiles right below the balcony railing). The foot prints in front of the threshold. It should enlarge. It used to enlarge. Now all you get is grey from the image being erased. In the top left corner you can see one line of the measuring device they had around the boot print....that is all. THE ENLARGEMENT is gone, the thumbnail is still there.

elementry

09-06-2011, 03:33 PM

I'm not saying that Jonah was not critical of Rebecca in his own right. I can see a scenario where Dina had been jealous and angry towards Rebecca for being with Jonah and possibly precipitating their divorce. If she had warned Jonah that she did not want Max alone with Rebecca this would be an opportunity to press him to cut his ties or take a stand.

I did not say that planking had anything to do with Max's death. I did say that the older kids may have been planking earlier and that's why this theory is floating around. If Rebecca knew and allowed any of the kids to plank around this would have caused concern for Dina and reason to affirm that she couldn't be trusted with Max and may have contributed to his death.

JS and DS had shared custody I presume. So since JS only had limited time with his child, why is he delegating that time with MS to his live-in girlfriend while JS goes off golfing and who knows what else. One wonders how much time he actually put in, hands-on with the kids even though he had the sweet deal, not having to go in to work for the childrens' sake. Of course, a man's allowed to go off for a golf game, but how involved was he actually in the day-to-day with his children.

deanna82437

09-06-2011, 03:33 PM

Interesting poll. With 154 voting --> 47% said 'Someone Who Was Hired To Kill Her'

She says Dina's last name is Mareno though... think it's a mistake and is Romano?

Didn't notice that. I believe her maiden name was Romano, though. Interest poll indeed. Most of the comments I've come across agree that it was a homicide for sure.

katydid23

09-06-2011, 03:34 PM

1.) we need to know the exact wording , tone and voice level of JS when he made that 12:50 am call to Rebecca. Was he angry ? was he accusing ? was he sad when he broke the news ?

2.) Why was JS so confident on the day Rebecca died that it was a suicide ? Does he know something we do not know that makes him so confident of this suicide proclamation ? is that all he told friends that it was a suicide ? did he at least add something such as , "I hope police get to the bottom of this" or "no way, I cant believe she would do this". This would give us an idea of his frame of mind.

IF it was a suicide, then I think that JS would know because if it was a note meant for him, then he would understand it. For example, let's say he told her in the phone message, don't be in my bedroom when I come home, please move into the guest bedroom until we have a chance to talk. etc etc.

Then he might understand why she threw herself off that balcony, and he might understand what the cryptic message meant, if he used to for example, say " Thank You for saving me" when they first got together. So, imo, it IS possible that he knew she killed herself. Maybe when they used to fight she would get upset and threaten to kill herself if thjey broke up. My daughter had a bf who used to that, annoyingly enough.

SunnieRN

09-06-2011, 03:35 PM

If it is this one, it is still on the site. Did you notice that the foot prints make a V?
http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/images/rz8766.jpg

sdcali

09-06-2011, 03:37 PM

1.) we need to know the exact wording , tone and voice level of JS when he made that 12:50 am call to Rebecca. Was he angry ? was he accusing ? was he sad when he broke the news ?

2.) Why was JS so confident on the day Rebecca died that it was a suicide ? Does he know something we do not know that makes him so confident of this suicide proclamation ? is that all he told friends that it was a suicide ? did he at least add something such as , "I hope police get to the bottom of this" or "no way, I cant believe she would do this". This would give us an idea of his frame of mind.

Another question would be, did LE verify he called? What strikes me odd is that IF that were the message he left, would he not have also left it for AS?
As numerous members have said, If I had gotten a call like that I would not be turning back over to go to sleep.

what was the urgency for JS to call RZ at that hour? She could not come to the hospital to see him--she was not allowed.

Could there have been another reason for JS to call RZ at that hour?

IWannaKnow

09-06-2011, 03:39 PM

So, why would that particular picture get pulled? As you saw above, I can't figure it out.

What if that were the killers bare feet and not Rebecca's? All you would need would be a hacker to break into the Sheriff's web site and erase the photo, which he/she did (to my eye) but not completely. That is hard work, so the other one seems to have simply disappeared. I wonder if they saw those on the briefing and freaked out.....

There were TWO sets of foot prints and ONE boot print. The enlargements of the prints at the threshold are gone.....the prints that would have been either someone standing behind RZ or her hopping jump out to the railing.

deanna82437

09-06-2011, 03:40 PM

lol, if you say so! :) i thought that may have been the case, but i guess i'm just having a hard time picturing the angle.

http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/images/rz-nebr.jpg

I think this/or one of these shows the angle on the diagram.

IWannaKnow

09-06-2011, 03:41 PM

If it is this one, it is still on the site. Did you notice that the foot prints make a V?
http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/images/rz8766.jpg

You get the entire image at that link???? I get a grey page with a line of image on the top left corner....that is all. No tiles, no foot prints.

elfie

09-06-2011, 03:44 PM

I think it is very possible she hit the top of her head on the support bars below the balcony. If she swung back and forth after she went over the balcony she would have smashede into them, maybe even 4 times. And according to Wecht they were not hard blows.

No, I think according to Wecht, they were sufficient to render a person unconscious temporarily.

katydid23

09-06-2011, 03:44 PM

9/6 azfamily.com: [RZ]'s family wants case reopened in wake of new autopsy details

Such a suicide, said attorney Anne Bremner, is unprecedented.

“There’s never been a suicide like this in history -- of a woman, naked, binding her own hands behind her back, [binding] her feet, and throwing herself over a balcony,” she said. “Never.”

Bremner says a message painted on a bedroom door near where [RN] was found is inconsistent with suicide.

That message reportedly read, "She saved him can you save her?"

The meaning of that note remains a mystery, but Bremner said she and [RZ]’s family know what it’s not.

“That note that’s on the wall, on the door, is not a suicide note, and it’s not in her handwriting,” Bremner said.

Bremner is talking out of her pie-hole, imo. How could she possibly know that in the history of the world there has NEVER ever been a suicide like this. She cannot possibly know if that is true or not. There have been a billion suicides at the very least and she knows what all of the circumstances were?

Does she know if RN was into the Asian Tantric art of knot tying for sensual relations? Because that would make a significant difference if she was found to be knowledgable in that art.

They also cannot KNOW that the note was NOT written by her. They do not KNOW if she ever used block letters or not. They said she never did. How could they know that? None of her family lived close to her and she was a painter. She might have used block letters w/out them knowing and if so, they would not think it was her writing, when it possibly was.

Families often have a hard time believing a family member killed themselves. But Bremner's reasoning is histrionic, imo. " never ever in the history of the world ' is a pretty bold yet unprovable statement.

SunnieRN

09-06-2011, 03:46 PM

You get the entire image at that link???? I get a grey page with a line of image on the top left corner....that is all. No tiles, no foot prints.

I get the entire image. All I can suggest is restarting your computer as sometimes mine starts to act up after viewing a lot of pictures. I hope that helps!!! Of course honestly, that is the extent of my techno geekness, in other words, I am most likely NO help at all.

CalElliot

09-06-2011, 03:49 PM

Interesting poll. With 154 voting --> 47% said 'Someone Who Was Hired To Kill Her'

She says Dina's last name is Mareno though... think it's a mistake and is Romano?

DS was also referred in the news as "Dina Flores" at one point.

time

09-06-2011, 03:50 PM

About any rope trail on the balcony ... went back to the report with pictures and maybe there wouldn't be one given the narrow depth.

But I noticed something. On page 15 the right hand photo shows the rope going out onto the balcony with the doors closed. I take it to indicate that is how they found the crime scene. Would Rebecca have been able to stand out there and close the doors? And, why would she bother?

SunnieRN

09-06-2011, 03:50 PM

Bremner is talking out of her pie-hole, imo. How could she possibly know that in the history of the world there has NEVER ever been a suicide like this. She cannot possibly know if that is true or not. There have been a billion suicides at the very least and she knows what all of the circumstances were?

Does she know if RN was into the Asian Tantric art of knot tying for sensual relations? Because that would make a significant difference if she was found to be knowledgable in that art.

They also cannot KNOW that the note was NOT written by her. They do not KNOW if she ever used block letters or not. They said she never did. How could they know that? None of her family lived close to her and she was a painter. She might have used block letters w/out them knowing and if so, they would not think it was her writing, when it possibly was.

Families often have a hard time believing a family member killed themselves. But Bremner's reasoning is histrionic, imo. " never ever in the history of the world ' is a pretty bold yet unprovable statement.

I am not trying to be rude, but all of your arguments can be made in the exact opposite. Has anyone proven there has been a suicide that is the same? And has there really been 1 billion suicides? That's plain scary, as I wonder how many of them were actually murders.

IWannaKnow

09-06-2011, 03:52 PM

I get the entire image. All I can suggest is restarting your computer as sometimes mine starts to act up after viewing a lot of pictures. I hope that helps!!! Of course honestly, that is the extent of my techno geekness, in other words, I am most likely NO help at all.

:doh: Thank you Sunnie! I cleared my cache and it loads now. Must not have loaded properly the first time, and kept opening that way.....:crazy:

Sorry for the freaked out tangent. Too much talk of erased and painted over evidence. :maddening:

SunnieRN

09-06-2011, 03:53 PM

:doh: Thank you Sunnie! I cleared my cache and it loads now. Must not have loaded properly the first time, and kept opening that way.....:crazy:

Sorry for the freaked out tangent. Too much talk of erased and painted over evidence. :maddening:

Absolutely no problem at all!! I totally understand!!

tlneedham

09-06-2011, 03:55 PM

I have been following this case and the threads and the great discussions of all the oddities and I definitely feel like something is rotten here.

But I was just thinking about some things that aren't directly related to the evidence, but still bug me...and make me wonder if there's something more there...

-- How does a man who is allegedly paranoid enough to have the women in his life followed and investigated have a security camera that rarely gets used in his home? That just doesn't add up to me.

If only to ensure the safety of his kids, rattling around in a mansion with just a girlfriend there to protect them if some crazy person should decide to break in.

Could there have been a camera on that day that he just didn't tell anyone about? So maybe he saw with his own eyes the truth of what happened (whatever that was)?

-- And people have joked about this, but it really DOES seem weird to me that a multi-millionaire would have a 27-room mansion but no help around on a daily basis.

I can get not wanting to have nannies for the kids, but a housekeeper? Cook? Gardener? Someone else that would have normally been there when Max died?

Maybe he does and they were just not there at the time. But to me, that would be good to know in terms of understanding both the household schedule and Jonah better.

--And as others have pointed out, your brother comes to help out and you put him in the guest house? It could just be that the brother is a loner or doesn't feel comfortable in the more ostentatious main home.

Or maybe he didn't trust the brother and Rebecca in the home alone together. Or maybe he wanted the brother to keep an eye on Rebecca without her realizing it.

But again, it seems odd that you'd leave your girlfriend--who would obviously be upset, esp after being told not to visit Max in the hospital--by herself in the house.

I know your focus would be on your son. But I'd still think you'd want your brother around to keep her company or tell her to have a friend or relative come stay since you couldn't be home with her.

Anyway, these may be little things but they're still adding to my sense that something just isn't right there.

CalElliot

09-06-2011, 03:58 PM

Word is that autopsy report is now available from ME office. Hope to find it posted online in its entirety soon.

Questions:

Next, need to see the search warrants. Why were the search warrants sealed? What can the Zahaus do to unseal these?

Who now has possession of Rebecca's cell phone and the painted door?

And again, why was JONAH SHACKNAI convinced that Rebecca killed herself from the moment he heard the news? What, if anything, convinced him? His conviction in her suicide, or his need for the result to be suicide, set the tone for the entire investigation.

SunnieRN

09-06-2011, 04:00 PM

I have read and heard on the PC that there was a security system in the house, (ADT type), but nothing about cameras. Interesting thought though.

tlneedham

09-06-2011, 04:04 PM

IF it was a suicide, then I think that JS would know because if it was a note meant for him, then he would understand it. For example, let's say he told her in the phone message, don't be in my bedroom when I come home, please move into the guest bedroom until we have a chance to talk. etc etc.

I guess I'm just not seeing why he would even care where she slept given what he was dealing with. I could see telling someone to leave your house, but caring what bed they slept in when you really wouldn't know anyway?

...unless he was planning to come home and get some sleep himself. And then he might say he didn't want to talk or see her, he just wanted to sleep, so please go stay in the guest room. "We'll talk when I get up tomorrow" or something.

But as far as we know, he had no intention of coming home.

jstwondering

09-06-2011, 04:05 PM

IF it was a suicide, then I think that JS would know because if it was a note meant for him, then he would understand it. For example, let's say he told her in the phone message, don't be in my bedroom when I come home, please move into the guest bedroom until we have a chance to talk. etc etc.

Then he might understand why she threw herself off that balcony, and he might understand what the cryptic message meant, if he used to for example, say " Thank You for saving me" when they first got together. So, imo, it IS possible that he knew she killed herself. Maybe when they used to fight she would get upset and threaten to kill herself if thjey broke up. My daughter had a bf who used to that, annoyingly enough.

I have no doubt that JS knows what the painted words on the door mean.
I've been thinking about this for a while, and here is IMHO my theory of what
"She Saved Him Can You Save Her" could mean.

If it is a suicide note, then my theory is that the note could be a plea by NZ to JS to help her little sister. If NZ felt guilty and was being blamed for MS's fall, she could be reminding JS that her sister was the one that called 911. So, in a sense, NZ is claiming her sister actually saved MS, (even though it eventually ended so badly) so could JS now save her sister or cover for her/provide for her.

If it is not a suicide note, which is where I am leaning, imagine this horrible scenario-
two non-amicable parents are sharing watch over their severely injured child, it gets to be too much for the mom, who accuses the ex-hubby's girlfriend of hurting her baby. She always suspected that girlfriend would hurt her baby. How could he leave her in charge of beloved son? Ex-hubby at first says that his girlfriend didn't hurt son, she actually saved his life by administering CPR. Mother is incredulous that he could even suggest such a defense, and continues to seethe with anger at ex-hubby and his irresponsible choice of a partner...so the theory is that mom is thinking, so you say she saved him, really???, well look at her now, can you save her?

Any way you look at it, it's a very confusing and sad case.

HowLoveCanBe

09-06-2011, 04:06 PM

JS and DS had shared custody I presume. So since JS only had limited time with his child, why is he delegating that time with MS to his live-in girlfriend while JS goes off golfing and who knows what else. One wonders how much time he actually put in, hands-on with the kids even though he had the sweet deal, not having to go in to work for the childrens' sake. Of course, a man's allowed to go off for a golf game, but how involved was he actually in the day-to-day with his children.

What gets me is that if Dina had barred Rebecca from the ICU. Did Jonah support that decision? Where he came down on that decision and how he handled that with Rebecca would most likely set tone for what was to come.

time

09-06-2011, 04:08 PM

DS was also referred in the news as "Dina Flores" at one point.

I never did figure that one out!

deanna82437

09-06-2011, 04:19 PM

I never did figure that one out!

I saw that as well and I believe it was her mother that referred to her by that name. I just assumed she had a previous marriage/divorce and went by that name.

HowLoveCanBe

09-06-2011, 04:19 PM

I have no doubt that JS knows what the painted words on the door mean.
I've been thinking about this for a while, and here is IMHO my theory of what
"She Saved Him Can You Save Her" could mean.

If it is a suicide note, then my theory is that the note could be a plea by NZ to JS to help her little sister. If NZ felt guilty and was being blamed for MS's fall, she could be reminding JS that her sister was the one that called 911. So, in a sense, NZ is claiming her sister actually saved MS, (even though it eventually ended so badly) so could JS now save her sister or cover for her/provide for her.

If it is not a suicide note, which is where I am leaning, imagine this horrible scenario-
two non-amicable parents are sharing watch over their severely injured child, it gets to be too much for the mom, who accuses the ex-hubby's girlfriend of hurting her baby. She always suspected that girlfriend would hurt her baby. How could he leave her in charge of beloved son? Ex-hubby at first says that his girlfriend didn't hurt son, she actually saved his life by administering CPR. Mother is incredulous that he could even suggest such a defense, and continues to seethe with anger at ex-hubby and his irresponsible choice of a partner...so the theory is that mom is thinking, so you say she saved him, really???, well look at her now, can you save her?

Any way you look at it, it's a very confusing and sad case.

If Rebecca administered CPR and Max did not die at the scene then she 'saved' him. My gut tells me he would have continued to survive on life support but the parents made the call to not go down that path. She was being blamed by Dina for her son's death. I think this is perfectly understandable given their history and Dina's need to make sense of this tragedy. Look at stage 2 of the Kübler-Ross model. Did Jonah defend or 'save' Rebecca from Dina's anger? Did Jonah compound the situation with his own blame towards Rebecca? When are messages ever placed on doors? They are placed on doors as messages to people coming in. She painted that message as the first act in her plan. If Jonah had come home between the time she painted that and before she jumped he could have saved her. She was waiting for his loving embrace.

tlneedham

09-06-2011, 04:21 PM

Another question would be, did LE verify he called? What strikes me odd is that IF that were the message he left, would he not have also left it for AS?

I have had that a number of time several times--and not just AS. If he had just gotten that message, he could have called a lot of people and told them...Dina too...so it could have set off anyone close to the child and blamed Rebecca...

As numerous members have said, If I had gotten a call like that I would not be turning back over to go to sleep.

what was the urgency for JS to call RZ at that hour? She could not come to the hospital to see him--she was not allowed.

Could there have been another reason for JS to call RZ at that hour?

Maybe he just wanted someone to talk to? I imagine the air could have been thick with recriminations from Dina in the hospital room. He may have just wanted someone else to talk to.

But as many people have said, very odd she didn't pick up. If she was asleep, why would she wake up later to check her voice mail?

I do wonder if maybe she knew she couldn't reach him if she called back. Sometimes, you're not allowed to use cell phone inside hospital and he might have had to go outside to call her. He could have said in message he was heading back in...

But personally, I still would have called back, if only to leave a supportive voice mail.

And here's another question...

Why would he have just learned that info at that time of night? The child should have no longer been in the ER at that point. And every experience I've had with hospitals is you are out of luck for getting info from doctors or test results after business hours.

My guess is he had to have gotten that news hours before.

ziggy

09-06-2011, 04:28 PM

Does anyone think it's odd that the message has been whited out in all the photographs? Why? It's just words in black paint. They show the knives, the rope...but feel the need to white out the message? Maybe because it is thought to be the suicide note and too personal?

I do find it odd that there are no other footprints on the balcony. Still, it's a really crazy suicide if it is one.

I do not find it odd that she would not be welcome in the ICU. The mother may have had bad feelings towards her and that would be pretty normal. The dad didn't want to upset her and after all, she was only "the girlfriend" as serious as they may have been about their relationship - she's still not an immediate family member. I'm sure there were bad feelings - I get that. It just bothers me that this is a really strange way to commit suicide and completely out of the norm for a woman to do it in this fashion...not impossible I guess.

No evidence of anyone else being in the room, touching the rope, the brushes, no other footprints...either it was a suicide or a professional job.

Bonepile

09-06-2011, 04:28 PM

I am still concerned that Jonah's statement is being posted on the Sheriff's website along with all the official reports.

What right has JS to post that there, and do they see it as some type of "impact" statement? Will the same courtesy be extended to Rebecca's family?

Quester

09-06-2011, 04:30 PM

What gets me is that if Dina had barred Rebecca from the ICU. Did Jonah support that decision? Where he came down on that decision and how he handled that with Rebecca would most likely set tone for what was to come.

Good questions!

The following was reported today:

"[JS] told [RN] not to visit [the hospital], because he wanted to avoid a confrontation between [RZ] and [DS] ..."

Something that has bothered me for a few weeks now, probably has really nothing to do with the case, but still gnaws away. Rebecca (may she rest in peace) has taken some flack here and other places as the one being in charge of everything in that household, including being the watchful eye over MS. I have read (don't ask for links, my brain is blank) that in that affluent neighborhood, all families employed nannies/governesses, at times one for each child, cooks, housekeepers, gardeners, etc. I just wonder why this family (mainly JS, I guess) was so different. It just seems strange that all of those details/duties were left to one individual. Ok .. done!

justice be served

09-06-2011, 04:31 PM

And here's another question...

Why would he have just learned that info at that time of night? The child should have no longer been in the ER at that point. And every experience I've had with hospitals is you are out of luck for getting info from doctors or test results after business hours.

My guess is he had to have gotten that news hours before.

Snipped and BBM
Yes, why on earth would it be necessary to give that news at that hour to Rebecca or anyone else. Surely, the specialist would have done that in normal business hours. The timing is especially convenient based on what went down and the story told. And I doubt anyone else got that news at that hour besides Rebecca. Hinky, hinky.

Bonepile

09-06-2011, 04:32 PM

As to this suicide is there any written case like this anywhere even in a novel, or in a magazine or in a film or TV show that would possibly give RZ the idea of how to do it? Did she know of someone from her childhood years that did it this way?

I really find it very strange the way it was accomplished and am leaning toward something else all together.

Bonepile

09-06-2011, 04:37 PM

I think that Rebecca's position with this family can best be summed up in the sheer length of time it took JS and DS to write anything about her.

time

09-06-2011, 04:39 PM

Something that has bothered me for a few weeks now, probably has really nothing to do with the case, but still gnaws away. Rebecca (may she rest in peace) has taken some flack here and other places as the one being in charge of everything in that household, including being the watchful eye over MS. I have read (don't ask for links, my brain is blank) that in that affluent neighborhood, all families employed nannies/governesses, at times one for each child, cooks, housekeepers, gardeners, etc. I just wonder why this family (mainly JS, I guess) was so different. It just seems strange that all of those details/duties were left to one individual. Ok .. done!

Perhaps they were they but were illegals? Would there then be a reason to keep them hidden from LE?

MyBelle

09-06-2011, 04:39 PM

I don't know if the family researched her past. She's a lawyer and supposedly good. They want the truth and it could be related to Max's death. I don't care that Max died two days earlier. They have to get the police to investigate this as soon as possible. JMO

Everybody here is in a position to say otherwise. It's a free country with freedom of speech. With all due respect you seem to act as if it's ridiculous to question this investigation when there are so many unanswered questions, things that appear to have been purposely left out of the press conference and whiting out the message on the door so nobody will ever see it.

This board is set up to question investigations into crimes. There are quite a few cases in this country that have been ruled suicide but later re-opened and a murder conviction has been obtained. Personally, I don't want a murderer to walk free and there is more than enough evidence to believe this could have been a murder. JMO

My comments were specific to Max's death. LE did address his death to the point of providing an illustration of how it happened. I think it is disrespectful and also ridiculous for Ms. Bremner to suggest LE and the ME aren't being truthful about Max's fall. It wasn't ruled a suicide and his fall wasn't due to planking.

JMO

jstwondering

09-06-2011, 04:44 PM

If Rebecca administered CPR and Max did not die at the scene then she 'saved' him. My gut tells me he would have continued to survive on life support but the parents made the call to not go down that path. She was being blamed by Dina for her son's death. I think this is perfectly understandable given their history and Dina's need to make sense of this tragedy. Look at stage 2 of the Kübler-Ross model. Did Jonah defend or 'save' Rebecca from Dina's anger? Did Jonah compound the situation with his own blame towards Rebecca? When are messages ever placed on doors? They are placed on doors as messages to people coming in. She painted that message as the first act in her plan. If Jonah had come home between the time she painted that and before she jumped he could have saved her. She was waiting for his loving embrace.

Dear HLCB, I've been enjoying your posts.
I can respect your opinion, as my ideas are just theories, also. What bothers me is that if NZ wrote the note, why would she call herself "she"? After all, she called JS "you".

Was the note on the door on the inside? i.e. if you closed the door, was it still inside the room, or was it outside, so that when the door was closed, it could be read by whomever came knocking. Was the door closed when the police came? I don't know. It's interesting.

Oh, and thanks for your post about Kübler-Ross. I'm very familiar with the stages; I have gone through them more than I care to admit.

MyBelle

09-06-2011, 04:45 PM

I am still concerned that Jonah's statement is being posted on the Sheriff's website along with all the official reports.

What right has JS to post that there, and do they see it as some type of "impact" statement? Will the same courtesy be extended to Rebecca's family?

JS' is a statement that supports LE and the investigation so of course LE wants it there. RN's family has bashed LE and their investigation in the media so I don't see the Sheriff giving them space to do so on his website.

JMO

SunnieRN

09-06-2011, 04:45 PM

I have had that a number of time several times--and not just AS. If he had just gotten that message, he could have called a lot of people and told them...Dina too...so it could have set off anyone close to the child and blamed Rebecca...

Maybe he just wanted someone to talk to? I imagine the air could have been thick with recriminations from Dina in the hospital room. He may have just wanted someone else to talk to.

But as many people have said, very odd she didn't pick up. If she was asleep, why would she wake up later to check her voice mail?

I do wonder if maybe she knew she couldn't reach him if she called back. Sometimes, you're not allowed to use cell phone inside hospital and he might have had to go outside to call her. He could have said in message he was heading back in...

But personally, I still would have called back, if only to leave a supportive voice mail.

And here's another question...

Why would he have just learned that info at that time of night? The child should have no longer been in the ER at that point. And every experience I've had with hospitals is you are out of luck for getting info from doctors or test results after business hours.

My guess is he had to have gotten that news hours before.

If he had gotten the message earlier in the day, I find it hard to believe that he would have gone to dinner with Rebecca and AS and not discussed the matter.

In a hospital setting, doctors will visit patients and family after business hours. Especially if they have a practice and see patients during the day. There is also the matter of test results and when they come in, which determines when doctors will talk to family members.

I see this as possibly the following timeline:

Dinner with Rebecca and AS

Return to hospital, and Max's bedside

Get news about test results from doctor

JS/DS and possibly other family members make the decision to end life support and donate organs

The anger and grief are overwhelming for JS/DS, causing one of them to call Rebecca. At this point it is unknown whether that was an angry or grief stricken phone call.

Events with Rebecca occur

Rebecca found by AS

scorekeeper

09-06-2011, 04:48 PM

About any rope trail on the balcony ... went back to the report with pictures and maybe there wouldn't be one given the narrow depth.

But I noticed something. On page 15 the right hand photo shows the rope going out onto the balcony with the doors closed. I take it to indicate that is how they found the crime scene. Would Rebecca have been able to stand out there and close the doors? And, why would she bother?

well she could close the door if she hadn't put her hands behind her back yet, but the footprints never point back toward the french doors. So, I'm not sure how LE found the doors; they didn't tell us/didn't feel we needed to know......

And then there is also a photo with the doors open and it appears to still be dark out....which I don't understand.....but I live in the east and the sun rises early......would it still be dark at 7:00 am in Coronado?

gitana1

09-06-2011, 04:53 PM

In regards to knots, you have to think of AS who works on tugboats, anyone who is into boating or possibly RN. A WS poster implied that JS may have been into Japanese bondage or Kinbaku/Sokubaku - meaning 'the beauty of tight binding'. In that case, she would be experienced in knot tying. Never heard of it before...so, I googled japanese bondage widipedia and found definition and a very elicit photo (naked woman tied up with rope and mouth covered- sound familiar?). Take a look, and it makes you wonder. And Dr Klein made that sexual comment about JS..."as his wealth increased so did his satyriasis --- his excessive, often uncontrollable sexual desire. Maybe this was his desire to remain forever young. But this illness may very well account for what happened at the Spreckles mansion as it did for the action at Dupont Estate in Deleware."

Bremner is talking out of her pie-hole, imo. How could she possibly know that in the history of the world there has NEVER ever been a suicide like this. She cannot possibly know if that is true or not. There have been a billion suicides at the very least and she knows what all of the circumstances were?

Does she know if RN was into the Asian Tantric art of knot tying for sensual relations? Because that would make a significant difference if she was found to be knowledgable in that art.

They also cannot KNOW that the note was NOT written by her. They do not KNOW if she ever used block letters or not. They said she never did. How could they know that? None of her family lived close to her and she was a painter. She might have used block letters w/out them knowing and if so, they would not think it was her writing, when it possibly was.

Families often have a hard time believing a family member killed themselves. But Bremner's reasoning is histrionic, imo. " never ever in the history of the world ' is a pretty bold yet unprovable statement.

I think Bremner is prone to talking out of her pie hole. She has a history of making ludicrous statements with no basis in logic. So far, though, she has done okay in her representation of the Zahau family.

But guys, why all this speculation that Zahau is into some kind of Asian bondage? I've seen that in several posts. Cause' she's Asian? She is not Japanese (I think she was born in Malaysia of Chinese descent) and Tantric sex is really a western construct of an ancient, Hindu religious concept that included sex rites, but which western cultures adapted. In other words, hippies studied Tantra and ancient Indian sex rites connected to it and created what we know of as Tantric sex in the west. Besides, Rebecca's been here a long, long time from what I can gather and it's doubtful that her parents taught her some Asian form of bondage.

Word is that autopsy report is now available from ME office. Hope to find it posted online in its entirety soon.

Questions:

Next, need to see the search warrants. Why were the search warrants sealed? What can the Zahaus do to unseal these?
Who now has possession of Rebecca's cell phone and the painted door?
And again, why was JONAH SHACKNAI convinced that Rebecca killed herself from the moment he heard the news? What, if anything, convinced him? His conviction in her suicide, or his need for the result to be suicide, set the tone for the entire investigation.

Great questions. I am very open to this being a suicide. It is possible that the police eliminated all possible suspects, found no evidence of anyone else near the crime scene, except to cut her down, found evidence that she was the only one handling the paint, the ropes, that JS left her a message that would terribly upset her, etc., etc. But the thing is, this is a very unusual death that looks at first blush like a definite homicide.

And, this occurred at the home of a very powerful, very rich man with a history of accusations of violence and control and there was a tragic, odd accident, leading to the ultimate death of his boy, at the same house, days before.

The point is, there are too many questions and while I understand the need to protect JS and Dina and even Rebecca, from too much info being publicized, the public, and Rebecca's family, is highly concerned.

I think LE needs to be completely transparent and answer questions from the public and the Zahau's. They need to explain a bit further, instead of showing a Houdini routine in a re-creation video and hiding some evidence from publication or explanation - lie the apparent head wounds. A young woman died in a very bizarre manner and the public should be privy to ALL the reasons why LE felt this was a suicide, or this matter is not going to rest.

time

09-06-2011, 04:53 PM

I think that Rebecca's position with this family can best be summed up in the sheer length of time it took JS and DS to write anything about her.

Here's what I think is probably closer to the truth now that I look at everything.

That that rumor that Rebecca and Jonah were about to be engaged probably did not come from the PR firm, but I think it is probably true. I think Jonah's tactic has been to distance himself from portraying any really close relationship with Rebecca since her death... it's almost like she barely existed and that one line in his Sheriff Dept statement only validates that for me. On top of it it seems he was floating the suicide theory from the get go. It's my understanding they were living together as partners. This is not how you would view a partner you had made that kind of commitment to. Maybe he was caught with his pants down in that he promised Dina that he would always be there when Max visited. I'm really doubting Dina had serious claims against Rebecca - we shall see. I think it was a tit-for-tat thing going on between Dina and Jonah. I'd be seriously upset if my ex were investigating the guys I was dating or in a relationship with... particularly if he scared them away. The guys would be seriously upset if this carried on and Dina's kept retaliating (playing the dysfunctional game) instead of going on with her own life.

time

09-06-2011, 04:57 PM

Dear HLCB, I've been enjoying your posts.
I can respect your opinion, as my ideas are just theories, also. What bothers me is that if NZ wrote the note, why would she call herself "she"? After all, she called JS "you".

Was the note on the door on the inside? i.e. if you closed the door, was it still inside the room, or was it outside, so that when the door was closed, it could be read by whomever came knocking. Was the door closed when the police came? I don't know. It's interesting.

Oh, and thanks for your post about Kübler-Ross. I'm very familiar with the stages; I have gone through them more than I care to admit.

It was on the outside of the doorway facing the hall.

Also, I agree, I don't think people write notes and change from third person to first person or whatever in the middle of them. I don't think she would refer to herself in the third person either, but then again, I don't think Rebecca wrote that.

MyBelle

09-06-2011, 04:59 PM

Another question would be, did LE verify he called? What strikes me odd is that IF that were the message he left, would he not have also left it for AS?
As numerous members have said, If I had gotten a call like that I would not be turning back over to go to sleep.

what was the urgency for JS to call RZ at that hour? She could not come to the hospital to see him--she was not allowed.

Could there have been another reason for JS to call RZ at that hour?

Aren't you making an assumption that AS did not receive a call at the same time? Conversations between JS and AS wouldn't be publicly released because it really has no relevance to the investigation.

I'm kinda surprised that some are questioning the time of the call. A turn for the worse can happen at any time. Hearts do stop beating and need restarting but that doesn't mean they continue to beat normally. Was RN so callous toward Max that she wouldn't want to even be told of his condition? I doubt it.

JMO

time

09-06-2011, 05:02 PM

If Rebecca administered CPR and Max did not die at the scene then she 'saved' him. My gut tells me he would have continued to survive on life support but the parents made the call to not go down that path. She was being blamed by Dina for her son's death. I think this is perfectly understandable given their history and Dina's need to make sense of this tragedy. Look at stage 2 of the Kübler-Ross model. Did Jonah defend or 'save' Rebecca from Dina's anger? Did Jonah compound the situation with his own blame towards Rebecca? When are messages ever placed on doors? They are placed on doors as messages to people coming in. She painted that message as the first act in her plan. If Jonah had come home between the time she painted that and before she jumped he could have saved her. She was waiting for his loving embrace.

No disrespect intended, but this all sounds m ore like something in a Vampire movie than I can buy as a suicide theory.

Besides, per LE timeline it doesn't seem like t here would have been much time for her to be saved by Jonah, he had no intention of coming home and if she felt this way it appears to me she would call out to him first - LE says she never called him back and didn't even answer the phone since he left a voicemail.

x_files

09-06-2011, 05:04 PM

As to this suicide is there any written case like this anywhere even in a novel, or in a magazine or in a film or TV show that would possibly give RZ the idea of how to do it? Did she know of someone from her childhood years that did it this way?

I really find it very strange the way it was accomplished and am leaning toward something else all together.

I agree. I've watched many horror movies, film-noirs and murder mysteries and have never thought of this scenario. If i were to commit suicide it wouldn't be this complex perhaps I am boring or lack imagination. It's seem so utterly bizarre it had to be thought through and researched before hand on a computer/internet.

tlneedham

09-06-2011, 05:05 PM

Another question would be, did LE verify he called? What strikes me odd is that IF that were the message he left, would he not have also left it for AS?

I have had that a number of time several times--and not just AS. If he had just gotten that message, he could have called a lot of people and told them...Dina too...so it could have set off anyone close to the child and blamed Rebecca...

As numerous members have said, If I had gotten a call like that I would not be turning back over to go to sleep.

what was the urgency for JS to call RZ at that hour? She could not come to the hospital to see him--she was not allowed.

Could there have been another reason for JS to call RZ at that hour?

Maybe he just wanted someone to talk to? I imagine the air could have been thick with recriminations from Dina in the hospital room. He may have just wanted someone else to talk to.

But as many people have said, very odd she didn't pick up. If she was asleep, why would she wake up later to check her voice mail?

I do wonder if maybe she knew she couldn't reach him if she called back. Sometimes, you're not allowed to use cell phone inside hospital and he might have had to go outside to call her. He could have said in message he was heading back in...

But personally, I still would have called back, if only to leave a supportive voice mail.

And here's another question...

Why would he have just learned that info at that time of night? The child should have no longer been in the ER at that point. And every experience I've had with hospitals is you are out of luck for getting info from doctors or test results after business hours.

My guess is he had to have gotten that news hours before.

scorekeeper

09-06-2011, 05:07 PM

Something that has bothered me for a few weeks now, probably has really nothing to do with the case, but still gnaws away. Rebecca (may she rest in peace) has taken some flack here and other places as the one being in charge of everything in that household, including being the watchful eye over MS. I have read (don't ask for links, my brain is blank) that in that affluent neighborhood, all families employed nannies/governesses, at times one for each child, cooks, housekeepers, gardeners, etc. I just wonder why this family (mainly JS, I guess) was so different. It just seems strange that all of those details/duties were left to one individual. Ok .. done!

One of the earlier (I mean thread 1 or 2!!) posters from the area had said that some of the summer help came across the border everyday and then went back at night.........but remember in the earlier videos it showed an older gentleman loading suitcases in the back of a car....were they 'renting' or help??????

tlneedham

09-06-2011, 05:07 PM

OK here's my two cents, totally MOO...but I just can't shake the feeling that the whole death scene is very symbolic.

-- Witches were hung in public to teach people a lesson...Rebecca was hung in a courtyard. Shirt in the mouth to silence her--literally and figuratively.

Women rarely hang themselves and they rarely kill themselves in a "public" place. And coming up with this whole scene of binding the hands, stuffing the mouth and throwing yourself over a balcony just seems really far-fetched for someone who is supposedly out of her mind and hysterical enough to want to kill herself.

And with so many easier ways to go than this...I don't know, but the whole set up screams payback and teaching someone a lesson--not suicide.

-- A message on a wall is usually a taunt from a killer, not a suicide note. And this one sounds taunting to me, particularly with the cryptic message and third-party pronouns.

If she felt so guilty, why wouldn't she pick up a pen and write a note first apologizing over and over to the boy, to the man she loved, to her family? Why would she pick up black paint and paint something cryptic on the way with nary an apology?

Even if she felt she'd been wronged somehow, I can't see NOT wanting to set the record straight and express her love one last time.

-- Her being nude AND in "public." She had to know that AS or someone else was more likely to find her than JS was. After all, last we heard she was supposed to take him a change of clothes in the AM, so it didn't sound like he was coming home.

Again, the nudity just screams symbolism to me--exposing her for who she is. One last act of humiliation, especially given her courtyard location.

As I said, totally my thoughts but the symbolism of the whole scene has really been bugging me.

MyBelle

09-06-2011, 05:10 PM

No disrespect intended, but this all sounds m ore like something in a Vampire movie than I can buy as a suicide theory.

Besides, per LE timeline it doesn't seem like t here would have been much time for her to be saved by Jonah, he had no intention of coming home and if she felt this way it appears to me she would call out to him first - LE says she never called him back and didn't even answer the phone since he left a voicemail.

My take on the message is that it was about her eternal salvation. The family has said she was religious and believed suicide would be eternal damnation.

iow, she saved Max so would Jesus save her......

JMO

CuriousHousewife

09-06-2011, 05:14 PM

Can someone show me the evidence of her being incredibly religious besides her family saying it? I find it interesting that she would have been so devout as to be asking Jesus to save her, but shacking up with this guy would have been no big deal? Someone who was highly religious and whose family used the Bible as their final judgement would *not* have been okay with this. She wouldn't have, either.

The idea of going to hell for suicide bummed her out, but going to hell for adultery, totally kosher?

Morag

09-06-2011, 05:15 PM

...and the (at least) two different versions of it we have heard:

Is it at all possible that this is being withheld in the eventuality that the person who wrote it is still living? And that that person might eventually slip up and 'out' him/herself by knowing what the exact format and wording were?

Call me a foolish optimist, but I still have hope that this investigation is not yet really closed.

jstwondering

09-06-2011, 05:17 PM

OK here's my two cents, totally MOO...but I just can't shake the feeling that the whole death scene is very symbolic.

-- Witches were hung in public to teach people a lesson...Rebecca was hung in a courtyard. Shirt in the mouth to silence her--literally and figuratively.

Women rarely hang themselves and they rarely kill themselves in a "public" place. And coming up with this whole scene of binding the hands, stuffing the mouth and throwing yourself over a balcony just seems really far-fetched for someone who is supposedly out of her mind and hysterical enough to want to kill herself.

And with so many easier ways to go than this...I don't know, but the whole set up screams payback and teaching someone a lesson--not suicide.

-- A message on a wall is usually a taunt from a killer, not a suicide note. And this one sounds taunting to me, particularly with the cryptic message and third-party pronouns.

If she felt so guilty, why wouldn't she pick up a pen and write a note first apologizing over and over to the boy, to the man she loved, to her family? Why would she pick up black paint and paint something cryptic on the way with nary an apology?

Even if she felt she'd been wronged somehow, I can't see NOT wanting to set the record straight and express her love one last time.

-- Her being nude AND in "public." She had to know that AS or someone else was more likely to find her than JS was. After all, last we heard she was supposed to take him a change of clothes in the AM, so it didn't sound like he was coming home.

Again, the nudity just screams symbolism to me--exposing her for who she is. One last act of humiliation, especially given her courtyard location.

As I said, totally my thoughts but the symbolism of the whole scene has really been bugging me.

BBM
Sis, is this you? Just kidding, because my sister is computer phobic. My sister and I walk every morning, and she said the EXACT same things this morning. I totally agree with your post. I try to keep an open mind, and love reading everyone's theories, but I just HAD TO thank your post in person, because you said what I believe much better than I could.

CuriousHousewife

09-06-2011, 05:17 PM

Morag, I have thought about this over the past several days, and I can only hope that the "ruling" on Friday might be a way to try to draw the real killer out. Maybe they feel like they're dealing with someone egotistical or who would eventually want to take credit or be known for having done this. The suicide ruling would probably get their goat.

Carioca

09-06-2011, 05:17 PM

snipped >
Was the note on the door on the inside? i.e. if you closed the door, was it still inside the room, or was it outside, so that when the door was closed, it could be read by whomever came knocking. Was the door closed when the police came? I don't know. It's interesting. snipped

The message was on the outside of the door so that whoever entered the room would see the message before entering. This is stated in RZ autopsy report.

scorekeeper

09-06-2011, 05:20 PM

I agree. I've watched many horror movies, film-noirs and murder mysteries and have never thought of this scenario. If i were to commit suicide it wouldn't be this complex perhaps I am boring or lack imagination. It's seem so utterly bizarre it had to be thought through and researched before hand on a computer/internet.

BBM

Me too.......why not use one of the knives or put the garbage bag over your head......

When I was working most of the suicides were from hanging, gun shot wounds or running the car in the garage but I have learned a lot from posters here and it seems to be very personal and individual.

I still believe that the knots tell the story.....did RN know how or ever used these type of knots?????????

MyBelle

09-06-2011, 05:20 PM

Can someone show me the evidence of her being incredibly religious besides her family saying it? I find it interesting that she would have been so devout as to be asking Jesus to save her, but shacking up with this guy would have been no big deal? Someone who was highly religious and whose family used the Bible as their final judgement would *not* have been okay with this. She wouldn't have, either.

The idea of going to hell for suicide bummed her out, but going to hell for adultery, totally kosher?

The family is lying? I doubt it. Not all of us share the same moral compass.

JMO

IWannaKnow

09-06-2011, 05:24 PM

My take on the message is that it was about her eternal salvation. The family has said she was religious and believed suicide would be eternal damnation.

iow, she saved Max so would Jesus save her......

JMO

So why would she condemn herself to eternal damnation for a tragic accident?

MyBelle

09-06-2011, 05:26 PM

So why would she condemn herself to eternal damnation for a tragic accident?

According to her family, RN believed her suicide condemned her to eternal damnation.

JMO

deanna82437

09-06-2011, 05:27 PM

Perhaps they were they but were illegals? Would there then be a reason to keep them hidden from LE?

So, if that were the case, they could also have been witnesses to MS's accident? Interesting concept. :waitasec:

IWannaKnow

09-06-2011, 05:33 PM

According to her family, RN believed her suicide condemned her to eternal damnation.

JMO

So, if that was her belief, why would she condemn herself to eternal damnation for Max's tragic accident....which was not her fault? That goes against all of her beliefs. I could see self imposed exile but not suicide, not for a woman who met her ex husband at a Bible college.

MyBelle

09-06-2011, 05:38 PM

So, if that was her belief, why would she condemn herself to eternal damnation for Max's tragic accident....which was not her fault? That goes against all of her beliefs. I could see self imposed exile but not suicide, not for a woman who met her ex husband at a Bible college.

I don't believe her suicide was because of Max's accident, I believe it was because his father blamed her. Her message was to God, not to JS.

JMO

jstwondering

09-06-2011, 05:42 PM

I don't believe her suicide was because of Max's accident, I believe it was because his father blamed her. Her message was to God, not to JS.

JMO

What bothers me is that painting the message took some effort. If the message was only intended for God, then I would think that she wouldn't have had to even paint the message. Most religious people believe that God is all-knowing. He could know her thoughts. Whoever painted the note most likely wanted someone else to read it. IMO

time

09-06-2011, 05:45 PM

So, if that were the case, they could also have been witnesses to MS's accident? Interesting concept. :waitasec:

Exactly ... and then there are a lot of other things we could theorize about because of that.

I think it highly likely there were service staff there that were illegals. It's very very common in California and not just from Mexico.

Stella5

09-06-2011, 05:48 PM

Max was in the ICU, which meant he had specialists available at all hours of the day & night. I don't find it odd that they may have gotten bad news regarding his condition after normal business hours. He was on life support, and given the graveness of his injuries any number of things, such as cardiac arrest, could have gone wrong at any time.

When my MIL passed, she had been fine when we left her at 9 p.m. but then took a turn for the worse during the middle of the night and ICU called us at 3 a.m. to inform us they had to intubate her (which was against her wishes) and she may not make it through the night.

Steely Dan

09-06-2011, 05:51 PM

Another odd thing I read last night. Unless I misunderstood, Attorney Bremner stated that as to the door in question that we've seen with the message whited out: this was not just a computer-generated white-out, but LE actually painted it over! I feel I must have read incorrectly. Why on earth would LE alter the evidence and preclude further analysis of the paint marks in question? maybe it's not crucial, but what's with the evidence alteration.

It goes with the footprint of the officer on the balcony: just one footprint, but the implication is that they were trudging around that room at will; who knows what other footprint evidence might have been gleaned off the carpeting otherwise. In fact, was there even any testimony at the presentation regarding attempts to divine footprint impressions on the carpet?

This photo has been blacked out.
http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/images/rz8766.jpg

This is the enlargment of the balcony....only it isn't there anymore. If you look at the top left corner, you can see a tiny portion that was missed, a portion of the measuring device outlining the boot print. Now who would want that gone???? Also this one:
http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/images/rz8764.jpg

Also an enlargement of the prints on the balcony. What gives? That one is simply MIA. Did these get "erased" like the voice/text message and now the painting on the door?

ETA: Those are the only missing enlargements. I just went through them ALL, and those closeups of the balcony tiles with the boot and foot prints are the only ones missing.

I don't see what you mean? What's been blacked out?

SunnieRN

09-06-2011, 05:53 PM

Undocumented workers are not at all uncommon in CA ir AZ for that matter. I would still like to know who it was seen leaving/packing bags after the accidents occured.

I think the picture must be photoshopped because you don't see shadowlines where the panelized door is - if it were painted white it would still have those shadows as the rest of the unpainted door does.

The picture was not blacked out - the poster had to clear her computer cashe.

scorekeeper

09-06-2011, 05:57 PM

Based on the fragmented information we have received, there appears to be evidence pointing in either direction for the suicide or homicide theory. I think LE was influenced from the get-go. JS and his PR team was pushing the suicide theory from day 1; evident by the statements from RN's family and that attorney that showed up at the scene was there for intimidation and why did they post JS's statement on their website?

This whole investigation stinks to high heaven.

If LE wants us to buy their theory, then present us with the facts, ALL OF THEM!!

Gonna' take my Mom out for her 77th birthday; I hope the autopsy helps (once someone post it)....shouldn't it tell us about rope placement around her neck....

Let's go back to the beginning.....Inobu told us to follow the rope...and it sure as heck doesn't lead us to the balcony....

Later...

score

SunnieRN

09-06-2011, 06:00 PM

Happy Birthday to your Mom!! Have a wonderful time at dinner!!

Curious Me

09-06-2011, 06:02 PM

http://www.sdcounty.ca.gov/me/press/press.html

Case Number: 11-01542
Name: Maxfield Aaron Shacknai City of Residence: Scottsdale
DOB: 06/07/2005 Gender: Male
Place of Death: 3020 Children's Way, San Diego CA Place of injury: 1043 Ocean Boulevard, Coronado CA
Date/Time of Death: 7/16/2011 11:30:00 AM Date/Time injury: 07/11/2011 1010
Summary: The decedent was a six year old child. On 07/11/11, he reportedly fell from a staircase banister and was transported via ambulance to Rady Children's Hospital with head trauma. His condition did not improve and on 07/16/11, brain death was pronounced.
Cause of Death/Updated Cause of Death: Anoxic/Ischemic encephalopathy due to: Resuscitated cardiopulmonary arrest due to: Cervical spinal cord contusion
Contributing Conditions: None
Manner: Accident
Investigating Agency: Coronado Police Next of kin notified? Yes

http://www.sdcounty.ca.gov/me/press/press.html

Case Number: 11-01517
Name: Rebecca Mawii Zahau City of Residence: Coronado
DOB: 03/15/1979 Gender: Female
Place of Death: 1043 Ocean Boulevard, Coronado CA Place of injury: 1043 Ocean Boulevard, Coronado CA
Date/Time of Death: 7/13/2011 6:48:00 AM Date/Time injury: 07/--/2011 Unk
Summary: The decedent was a 32 year old divorced Asian female who resided in a home in Coronado with her boyfriend. On 07/13/11, her body was discovered hanging in a courtyard of her home. Due to suspicious circumstances a homicide investigation was initiated.
Cause of Death/Updated Cause of Death: Hanging due to: due to:
Contributing Conditions: None
Manner: Suicide
Investigating Agency: San Diego Sheriff Next of kin notified? Yes

Carioca

09-06-2011, 06:18 PM

The complete autopsy reports can be obtained by writing to the ME office. I have a copy. After reading it, it is absolutely mind boggling that LE closed this case saying it was a suicide. Extremely important information that was not made public nor mentioned at the briefing. If I knew how to post it here, I would.

MyBelle

09-06-2011, 06:23 PM

What bothers me is that painting the message took some effort. If the message was only intended for God, then I would think that she wouldn't have had to even paint the message. Most religious people believe that God is all-knowing. He could know her thoughts. Whoever painted the note most likely wanted someone else to read it. IMO

I believe RN painted it.

JMO

arielilane

09-06-2011, 06:23 PM

A few posters mentioned blood being seen earlier. I thought I would post a photo. I sure have missed a lot while away...

A few posters mentioned blood being seen earlier. I thought I would post a photo. I sure have missed a lot while away...

How do we know that is blood.

Not to be too graphic but I have seen bird poop that looks like dark grape juice.

I always wondered if the bird had been eating some kind of berry.

IMO

coastal

09-06-2011, 06:27 PM

The complete autopsy reports can be obtained by writing to the ME office. I have a copy. After reading it, it is absolutely mind boggling that LE closed this case saying it was a suicide. Extremely important information that was not made public nor mentioned at the briefing. If I knew how to post it here, I would.Oh, no. That can't be good.

arielilane

09-06-2011, 06:29 PM

The complete autopsy reports can be obtained by writing to the ME office. I have a copy. After reading it, it is absolutely mind boggling that LE closed this case saying it was a suicide. Extremely important information that was not made public nor mentioned at the briefing. If I knew how to post it here, I would.

I copied and pasted this from the Forum Finesse thread. There one other way that I know of as well. Thank you and good luck.

You can do it two ways.

One you can go to photobucket as described by LLL. Many here do that.

I do it this way, I download the picture from the internet onto my computer. When I want to show the picture

1. Go Advanced (button option to the right of submit reply at bottom of where you post)
2. click on paperclip icon at top of advanced posting.
3. A small window will open (called manage attachments) and I hit browse (browses my computer) I select the picture I want to post.
4. Click upload.
5. The window will let you know when your upload is complete and I click close the manage attachments window.

Finish the post and click submit. Your picture will show on your posting.

I do it this way because I post a lot of pictures for missing people. So, two ways you select which is best for you

arielilane

09-06-2011, 06:31 PM

How do we know that is blood.

Not to be too graphic but I have seen bird poop that looks like dark grape juice.

I always wondered if the bird had been eating some kind of berry.

IMO We can't be certain. It looks to be blood. However, Canadian geese have grape looking waste. Not sure if CA have CG's in the area?

Carioca

09-06-2011, 06:34 PM

I copied and pasted this from the Forum Finesse thread. There is a three way as well. Thank you and good luck.

You can do it two ways.

One you can go to photobucket as described by LLL. Many here do that.

I do it this way, I download the picture from the internet onto my computer. When I want to show the picture

1. Go Advanced (button option to the right of submit reply at bottom of where you post)
2. click on paperclip icon at top of advanced posting.
3. A small window will open (called manage attachments) and I hit browse (browses my computer) I select the picture I want to post.
4. Click upload.
5. The window will let you know when your upload is complete and I click close the manage attachments window.

Finish the post and click submit. Your picture will show on your posting.

I do it this way because I post a lot of pictures for missing people. So, two ways you select which is best for you

Thanks arielilane for the tip! But this is a PDF document 12 pages long. Would be easy if I could just create an attachment :banghead:

oceanblueeyes

09-06-2011, 06:34 PM

We can't be certain. It looks to be blood. However, Canadian geese have grape looking waste. Not sure if CA have CG's in the area?

Thanks. I am in Georgia and every now and then I see this color bird poop.

They may have been flying south at the time.

IMO

MyBelle

09-06-2011, 06:36 PM

Based on the fragmented information we have received, there appears to be evidence pointing in either direction for the suicide or homicide theory. I think LE was influenced from the get-go. JS and his PR team was pushing the suicide theory from day 1; evident by the statements from RN's family and that attorney that showed up at the scene was there for intimidation and why did they post JS's statement on their website?

This whole investigation stinks to high heaven.

If LE wants us to buy their theory, then present us with the facts, ALL OF THEM!!

Gonna' take my Mom out for her 77th birthday; I hope the autopsy helps (once someone post it)....shouldn't it tell us about rope placement around her neck....

Let's go back to the beginning.....Inobu told us to follow the rope...and it sure as heck doesn't lead us to the balcony....

Later...

score

I think it is unfair to accuse LE, the ME and JS of a crime. There is no evidence all were in any way influenced in their decisions or that JS even attempted to do so.

Rhyme & Reason

09-06-2011, 06:37 PM

Is that blood on the balcony, in the second picture you posted?

I was wondering that myself. Sure looks like blood to me.

October

09-06-2011, 06:39 PM

Thanks arielilane for the tip! But this is a PDF document 12 pages long. Would be easy if I could just create an attachment :banghead:

You can upload it to Google Docs and share it.

arielilane

09-06-2011, 06:41 PM

BBM

Me too.......why not use one of the knives or put the garbage bag over your head......

When I was working most of the suicides were from hanging, gun shot wounds or running the car in the garage but I have learned a lot from posters here and it seems to be very personal and individual.

I still believe that the knots tell the story.....did RN know how or ever used these type of knots?????????
Yes, someone knew their knots and was comfortable in the home. They knew no one was coming home. Knew where everyone was.

Evan's Mom

09-06-2011, 06:42 PM

What gets me is that if Dina had barred Rebecca from the ICU. Did Jonah support that decision? Where he came down on that decision and how he handled that with Rebecca would most likely set tone for what was to come.

Honestly, if it were me and my ex's girlfriend, whether she was present or not when my child was injured, she would not be welcome in ICU where I was spending time with my baby before he was taken off life support.
That's MY child AND MY time to spend with him in his last hours. I'll be damned if I'm going to share that with anyone but his father.
My ex's girlfriend would be the last person on my mind as my son lay there dying.
And if I were going to kill the woman so many feel I would hold responsible, it wouldn't be while I was focused on him. If I wanted her dead, I'd wait until he was gone and I was thinking more clearly.

Carioca

09-06-2011, 06:43 PM

cool, I think it uploaded here. Thanks for help.

elementry

09-06-2011, 06:43 PM

Thanks arielilane for the tip! But this is a PDF document 12 pages long. Would be easy if I could just create an attachment :banghead:

Hey, try this site to post a pdf online. After you upload, it will present it on a webpage. Copy the URL and post it here. Good luck!

I didn't mean to have a smiling face next to title, as there is nothing to smile about.. Reading this brings home the tragic loss of a beautiful woman. I wept reading it.

arielilane

09-06-2011, 06:47 PM

Thanks arielilane for the tip! But this is a PDF document 12 pages long. Would be easy if I could just create an attachment :banghead:
I think you can save it the same way. Save it to pictures and then download it through manage attachments.

LCoastMom

09-06-2011, 06:51 PM

We can't be certain. It looks to be blood. However, Canadian geese have grape looking waste. Not sure if CA have CG's in the area?

Can't recall ever seeing CG here, especially doubtful in summer, but we also get many colors of bird droppings depending on what the bird eats (I guess? :dunno: )

Thanks LCoastMom. Forbes magazine - now that's gotta sting JS and company. Yes, the initial article was in WSJ - but the follow up is worse and worse. I'll bet he'll step down by this weekend prompted by the board of directors.

stilettos

09-06-2011, 07:01 PM

cool, I think it uploaded here. Thanks for help.

OK...I have been reading along since the beginning...haven't had much to add to the conversation. After reading the autopsy report...if this wwas actually a suicide (which I seriously doubt at this time) she worked very hard to make it look like a murder. Just saying.

tiredblondy

09-06-2011, 07:06 PM

I think Bremner is prone to talking out of her pie hole. She has a history of making ludicrous statements with no basis in logic. So far, though, she has done okay in her representation of the Zahau family.

But guys, why all this speculation that Zahau is into some kind of Asian bondage? I've seen that in several posts. Cause' she's Asian? She is not Japanese (I think she was born in Malaysia of Chinese descent) and Tantric sex is really a western construct of an ancient, Hindu religious concept that included sex rites, but which western cultures adapted. In other words, hippies studied Tantra and ancient Indian sex rites connected to it and created what we know of as Tantric sex in the west. Besides, Rebecca's been here a long, long time from what I can gather and it's doubtful that her parents taught her some Asian form of bondage.

Great questions. I am very open to this being a suicide. It is possible that the police eliminated all possible suspects, found no evidence of anyone else near the crime scene, except to cut her down, found evidence that she was the only one handling the paint, the ropes, that JS left her a message that would terribly upset her, etc., etc. But the thing is, this is a very unusual death that looks at first blush like a definite homicide.

And, this occurred at the home of a very powerful, very rich man with a history of accusations of violence and control and there was a tragic, odd accident, leading to the ultimate death of his boy, at the same house, days before.

The point is, there are too many questions and while I understand the need to protect JS and Dina and even Rebecca, from too much info being publicized, the public, and Rebecca's family, is highly concerned.

I think LE needs to be completely transparent and answer questions from the public and the Zahau's. They need to explain a bit further, instead of showing a Houdini routine in a re-creation video and hiding some evidence from publication or explanation - lie the apparent head wounds. A young woman died in a very bizarre manner and the public should be privy to ALL the reasons why LE felt this was a suicide, or this matter is not going to rest.

As usual Git a great post.. Thanks...I couldn't agree more.

LCoastMom

09-06-2011, 07:07 PM

Thanks LCoastMom. Forbes magazine - now that's gotta sting JS and company. Yes, the initial article was in WSJ - but the follow up is worse and worse. I'll bet he'll step down by this weekend prompted by the board of directors.

This read is horrific, especially compared to the PC put on last week by Coronado police and the San Diego Medical Examiner’s Office.

I have believed her family from day 1, getting this new information makes it very obvious (over and above her religious views), why they knew Rebecca was not a suicide.

Why gag yourself to commit suicide? So sad for her family and their loss.

jstwondering

09-06-2011, 07:10 PM

Honestly, if it were me and my ex's girlfriend, whether she was present or not when my child was injured, she would not be welcome in ICU where I was spending time with my baby before he was taken off life support.
That's MY child AND MY time to spend with him in his last hours. I'll be damned if I'm going to share that with anyone but his father.
My ex's girlfriend would be the last person on my mind as my son lay there dying.
And if I were going to kill the woman so many feel I would hold responsible, it wouldn't be while I was focused on him. If I wanted her dead, I'd wait until he was gone and I was thinking more clearly.

I'm totally with you. My ex's girlfriend wouldn't be allowed into the ICU, and I would make sure everyone knew that, even if I had to tell the girlfriend myself..but what if before "thinking more clearly", something threw me into a rage... an uncontrollable, Betty Broderick-type rage? I wouldn't kill anyone, but obviously, some people do kill people.

gemvt

09-06-2011, 07:13 PM

A few posters mentioned blood being seen earlier. I thought I would post a photo. I sure have missed a lot while away...

Your photo is cropped. In larger photos, you can see that mere inches below the balcony is some kind of flowering tree (I'm no horticulturalist!) with red buds. To me that looks like one of the buds having flown up a very short distance in the wind. Scroll over to the right of this linked photo and you'll see similar reddish globby things. I am fairly certain none of those are blood.

http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/images/rz8764.jpg

deanna82437

09-06-2011, 07:15 PM

I'm still trying to catch up, but what demand from Dina??

Upthread Time was doing a timeline of events ..

Dec 2010 Rebecca quit job

Feb 2011 Rebecca's divorce final

Mar 2011 Dina demands MS not be left alone with Rebecca

(paraphrasing here)

LCoastMom

09-06-2011, 07:15 PM

I'm totally with you. My ex's girlfriend wouldn't be allowed into the ICU, and I would make sure everyone knew that, even if I had to tell the girlfriend myself..but what if before "thinking more clearly", something threw me into a rage... an uncontrollable, Betty Broderick-type rage? I wouldn't kill anyone, but obviously, some people do kill people.

A rage suggests a spur of the moment kill, cord cut and tied, a nude woman bound and gagged, suggests planning.

MyBelle

09-06-2011, 07:32 PM

Thanks LCoastMom. Forbes magazine - now that's gotta sting JS and company. Yes, the initial article was in WSJ - but the follow up is worse and worse. I'll bet he'll step down by this weekend prompted by the board of directors.

I think he may very well step down so that he can pursue legal action over all these accusations and innuendo.

JMO

jstwondering

09-06-2011, 07:38 PM

A rage suggests a spur of the moment kill, cord cut and tied, a nude woman bound and gagged, suggests planning.

I respectfully disagree. Rage may and often does last a while. It is also very often dragged up from places hidden inside of us after years.

BrownRice

09-06-2011, 07:41 PM

Thanks LCoastMom. Forbes magazine - now that's gotta sting JS and company. Yes, the initial article was in WSJ - but the follow up is worse and worse. I'll bet he'll step down by this weekend prompted by the board of directors.

Why on Earth would he step down from his own company WHEN there is not one piece of evidence linking him to either death?

time

09-06-2011, 07:41 PM

Undocumented workers are not at all uncommon in CA ir AZ for that matter. I would still like to know who it was seen leaving/packing bags after the accidents occured.

Thank you Sunnie. I was looking for the more appropriate term 'undocumented' but was going blank on it!

TorisMom003

09-06-2011, 07:42 PM

I still have more questions than I do answers even after LE gave their "presentation" and after reading the autopsy report (thank you to Carioca for posting it!!).

1. There are two knives in the room. So why go through the trouble of the elaborate nude hanging with hands and feet bound where you have to go over a balcony railing to commit suicide instead of using one of those knives to cut your wrists?

2. The areas of blood under the skin on the top of her head. I don't see how anyone can hit the top of their head 3 or 4 times on something to cause those during a hanging that is a suicide. She wasn't hanging by her waist or her feet for her head to be able to hit the wall (top of her head that is) while possibly struggling so how did they get there?

3. In the autopsy report it states that the binding on the wrists was loose enough on the left wrist so that she could remove her left hand (after binding them in front of her body) and place them behind her back and place her left wrist back through the hole so that it is bound again. Now, if a person was going to bind their wrists so that they would not "save themselves" would they make it possible for one hand to be removed? If she could remove her left wrist to put it behind her back she could remove her left wrist to "save herself".

4. The message on the door in black paint. It reads (according to the autopsy) "She saved him can you save her". Clearly the "him" is not the same person the author is referring to as "you" otherwise it would read She saved him can he save her. If the author was RZ (I don't believe it was but let's say she wrote it) and it was a message meant for Jonah then would it not read She saved you can you save her? If (as I believe) it was a message to Jonah from the person that killed Rebecca then I can see the message being as written. Rebecca saved Max by performing CPR and getting him the required help he needed so She Saved Him. Then the author is asking Jonah if Jonah can save her, Rebecca, from her death at the hands of the author so Can You Save Her.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with Rebecca's family not accepting this (IMO farce of an) investigation. There are clearly things that do not add up and that have not been explained. They are entitled to that and frankly Rebecca deserves that.

MOO

Bonepile

09-06-2011, 07:45 PM

cool, I think it uploaded here. Thanks for help.

Thank you so much for this. I see so much here that I am going to have to take tomorrow and read it more thoroughly, but there are things that the sheriff's department and the ME did not bring out. I am also going to put my past medical art training to work for myself and do some renderings based on this report.

Thanks again.

curiousjo

09-06-2011, 08:01 PM

Nancy Grace covering this story tonight

tiredblondy

09-06-2011, 08:08 PM

4 hemorages as reported by jean on Nancy Grace....Man if JS and LE thought this was going away they were wrong!

When we first heard about the supposed suicide note it was reported it said "she saved him, can HE save her"........now I notice it says "she saved him, can YOU save her".......that is a significant difference in my mind.

Also in that blog listed a few pages back I find it very interesting that Dina enlisted mental health information in the custody and visitation battle. Who's mental health info?

Also re the blood in the vagina and the blood on the toes and a bit on the inner thigh, does this mean it was her time of month????? didnt the sister say this was not so? Though I really dont know how the sister could know that.

If she was having her monthly visit from aunt Mona, I just cant see a woman committing suicide in the nude knowing this......that just tops of the humiliating to me, and is such a personal female thing.

I can understand her not being allowed to go to the hospital if what we have heard that DS thinks that she suffocated Max, imagine the scene at the hospital.

If this is what had been voiced by Dina, I am sure this had been told to Rebecca and I am sure it wouldnt have been in a nice way.

This is probably over the top, but I am wondering if the last call was made by Dina or JS and was somewhere along the lines of "we know you killed him and we're going to make you suffer or kill you or you're going to jail for the rest of your life" type of call.

This could be the prelude to her setting up the suicide to look like murder.

Anyhow just thinking and rambling.

time

09-06-2011, 08:14 PM

I'm still trying to catch up, but what demand from Dina??

The demand (my term, maybe it was a request?) to Jonah was that Max not be left alone with Max

jjenny

09-06-2011, 08:15 PM

She dropped 9 feet. How did she get the head injuries? If she dropped 9 feet then I don't expect that much bounce for her head to hit the balcony?

I think you have lots of company. I can see running it in the local newspaper but to put it as part of the LE report ?????

HowLoveCanBe

09-06-2011, 08:20 PM

Honestly, if it were me and my ex's girlfriend, whether she was present or not when my child was injured, she would not be welcome in ICU where I was spending time with my baby before he was taken off life support.
That's MY child AND MY time to spend with him in his last hours. I'll be damned if I'm going to share that with anyone but his father.
My ex's girlfriend would be the last person on my mind as my son lay there dying.
And if I were going to kill the woman so many feel I would hold responsible, it wouldn't be while I was focused on him. If I wanted her dead, I'd wait until he was gone and I was thinking more clearly.

I can understand your point but at the same time it seems that Rebecca was banished. This was a time of tragedy for everyone involved - and it could have been an opportunity to come together - to support each other. Don't you think Rebecca may have felt compassion towards Dina? The point I was trying to make was that it seems like Rebecca was being isolated by Dina as well as Jonah. Why board the dog? Did Jonah request this? Why have Adam stay in the guest house? Shouldn't he have been in the guest room? Shouldn't Adam and Rebecca have been up all night in the kitchen - waiting for news? Was he there to watch over Rebecca and look over the house? It's as if they were punishing her - and despite this she was doing everything that was asked of her. Driving people to and from the airport, bringing Jonah clothes, cleaning up the broken glass - etc...

Plumeria5

09-06-2011, 08:22 PM

The demand (my term, maybe it was a request?) to Jonah was that Max not be left alone with Max

?? Max not be left alone with Max or Rebecca?

Kentjbkent

09-06-2011, 08:27 PM

I still have more questions than I do answers even after LE gave their "presentation" and after reading the autopsy report (thank you to Carioca for posting it!!).

1. There are two knives in the room. So why go through the trouble of the elaborate nude hanging with hands and feet bound where you have to go over a balcony railing to commit suicide instead of using one of those knives to cut your wrists?

2. The areas of blood under the skin on the top of her head. I don't see how anyone can hit the top of their head 3 or 4 times on something to cause those during a hanging that is a suicide. She wasn't hanging by her waist or her feet for her head to be able to hit the wall (top of her head that is) while possibly struggling so how did they get there?

3. In the autopsy report it states that the binding on the wrists was loose enough on the left wrist so that she could remove her left hand (after binding them in front of her body) and place them behind her back and place her left wrist back through the hole so that it is bound again. Now, if a person was going to bind their wrists so that they would not "save themselves" would they make it possible for one hand to be removed? If she could remove her left wrist to put it behind her back she could remove her left wrist to "save herself".

4. The message on the door in black paint. It reads (according to the autopsy) "She saved him can you save her". Clearly the "him" is not the same person the author is referring to as "you" otherwise it would read She saved him can he save her. If the author was RZ (I don't believe it was but let's say she wrote it) and it was a message meant for Jonah then would it not read She saved you can you save her? If (as I believe) it was a message to Jonah from the person that killed Rebecca then I can see the message being as written. Rebecca saved Max by performing CPR and getting him the required help he needed so She Saved Him. Then the author is asking Jonah if Jonah can save her, Rebecca, from her death at the hands of the author so Can You Save Her.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with Rebecca's family not accepting this (IMO farce of an) investigation. There are clearly things that do not add up and that have not been explained. They are entitled to that and frankly Rebecca deserves that.

MOO

The underlined is my EXACT interpretation of the message as well!

I doubt they are....but I would take a VERY close look at Jonah's possible "dealings" that are NOT related to legitimate pharmaceutical sales....

Sounds to me like a message was being sent via the son's accident, but Rebecca may have inadvertently interjected....so Plan 2 was enacted...