Ethanol and Biodiesel are two of the WORST alternative energy markets we have and can't stand without massive government subsidy as costs exceed revenues.

Big Dog

06-07-2011, 12:25 PM

Ethanol and Biodiesel are two of the WORST alternative energy markets we have and can't stand without massive government subsidy as costs exceed revenues.

And when OPEC decides it wants to crush the GREEN industries, like it did back in the 70's ... they will just drop the price of oil again, and all those green investors can say bye-bye to their money.

gOd

06-07-2011, 12:43 PM

Ethanol and Biodiesel are two of the WORST alternative energy markets we have and can't stand without massive government subsidy as costs exceed revenues.
Okay, this is a rarity. I totally agree. :thumbsup:

doctordog

06-07-2011, 12:57 PM

Okay, this is a rarity. I totally agree. :thumbsup:

When two people from opposite sides of the country with egos (speaking for me) speak in civil tongue occasionally we will agree, I think that is good most of the time.

I listend to a presentation from Pat Buchanan late last year and he talked about how compromise has hurt this nation. His key speaking point was many times the Democrats were right but in order to show progress they compromised and many times the Republicans were right and again they compromised.

I wish we knew where to draw the line every time.

Trinnity

06-07-2011, 03:01 PM

Ethanol and Biodiesel are two of the WORST alternative energy markets we have and can't stand without massive government subsidy as costs exceed revenues.True. Corn is too valuable as food, and biodeisel will gunk up an engine faster than the speed of light. Both will ultimately fail as viable fuels.

Independent Harry

06-07-2011, 03:19 PM

So here's the issue, ethanol is a required substance in most conventional gas. It was mandated. So if Obama stopped subsidies then the prices at the pump would sky rocket much higher than they have. So if Obama really was trying to drive up gas prices like many right wingers on here have said, this woukd be a perfect way to do it.

So Dog, what should he do? Skyrocket the price of gas, or let the brown people die from hunger?

Big Dog

06-07-2011, 03:21 PM

So here's the issue, ethanol is a required substance in most conventional gas. It was mandated.

Simple ... stop mandating it.

Semjaza

06-07-2011, 03:34 PM

And when OPEC decides it wants to crush the GREEN industries, like it did back in the 70's ... they will just drop the price of oil again, and all those green investors can say bye-bye to their money.

They like the 100$/barrel they're getting. No one is going to drop the price of oil.

Independent Harry

06-07-2011, 04:42 PM

Simple ... stop mandating it.

You think e corn lobbies won't fight that. And that's a congress thing not an Obama thing. I get the feeling you really don't understand how our government works...

bairdi

06-07-2011, 05:08 PM

You think e corn lobbies won't fight that. And that's a congress thing not an Obama thing. I get the feeling you really don't understand how our government works...
You've got that right Harry!

The ethanol boondoggle is largely a tribute to the political muscle of a single company: agribusiness giant Archer Daniels Midland. In the 1970s, looking for new ways to profit from corn, ADM began pushing ethanol as a fuel additive. By the early 1980s, ADM was producing 175 million gallons of ethanol a year. The company's then-chairman, Dwayne Andreas, struck up a close relationship with Sen. Bob Dole of Kansas, a.k.a. "Senator Ethanol." During the 1992 election, ADM gave $1 million to Dole and his friends in the GOP (compared with $455,000 to the Democrats). In return, Dole helped the company secure billions of dollars in subsidies and tax breaks. In 1995, the conservative Cato Institute, estimating that nearly half of ADM's profits came from products either subsidized or protected by the federal government, called the company "the most prominent recipient of corporate welfare in recent U.S. history."

Today, ADM is the leading producer of ethanol, supplying more than 1 billion gallons of the fuel additive last year. Ethanol is propped up by more than 200 tax breaks and subsidies worth at least $5.5 billion a year. And ADM continues to give back: Since 2000, the company has contributed $3.7 million to state and federal politicians.

The ethanol boondoggle is largely a tribute to the political muscle of a single company: agribusiness giant Archer Daniels Midland. In the 1970s, looking for new ways to profit from corn, ADM began pushing ethanol as a fuel additive. By the early 1980s, ADM was producing 175 million gallons of ethanol a year. The company's then-chairman, Dwayne Andreas, struck up a close relationship with Sen. Bob Dole of Kansas, a.k.a. "Senator Ethanol." During the 1992 election, ADM gave $1 million to Dole and his friends in the GOP (compared with $455,000 to the Democrats). In return, Dole helped the company secure billions of dollars in subsidies and tax breaks. In 1995, the conservative Cato Institute, estimating that nearly half of ADM's profits came from products either subsidized or protected by the federal government, called the company "the most prominent recipient of corporate welfare in recent U.S. history."

Today, ADM is the leading producer of ethanol, supplying more than 1 billion gallons of the fuel additive last year. Ethanol is propped up by more than 200 tax breaks and subsidies worth at least $5.5 billion a year. And ADM continues to give back: Since 2000, the company has contributed $3.7 million to state and federal politicians.