Training dummy is Reptile. I did 212, 222, clone. Then I did a slide as Reptile stood up and he fell in to the clone. I've tried about 10 more times but haven't been able to do it. Depending on how this works out, this might actually be really nice.

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There is a list somewhere... anyone who has large feet hit boxes this happens to. It is why 2,1,2~clone in the corner is so deadly. JIK does the same thing as well.

Still... I'm HC 2,1 into the 4... or cutting the string short on just about everyone in the corner. I can see this being SUPER useful when you are right outside the corner and the 2,1,2 string carries them into it. THAT seems to be the opportune time to use this.

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This is correct. Also has anyone experimented with throw inyo clone? Ive been getting it alot in matches where I forward throw them into a clone and they get frozen. I know back throw is inconsistent with the freeze but forward throw has worked every time.

Sent from my HTC Sensation XE with Beats Audio using Tapatalk

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Do you have a way of discerning the perfect distance for him to perform the throw at because I usually get knocked down when I try to grab him into the clone?

I remember finding the ice clone after 222 before, but never thinking to try jumping....this could make Sub's corner game even more deadly if used right. A well-timed jump clone in itself will pretty much force an opponent to stay there or burn meter to get through.

There is a list somewhere... anyone who has large feet hit boxes this happens to. It is why 2,1,2~clone in the corner is so deadly. JIK does the same thing as well.

Still... I'm HC 2,1 into the 4... or cutting the string short on just about everyone in the corner. I can see this being SUPER useful when you are right outside the corner and the 2,1,2 string carries them into it. THAT seems to be the opportune time to use this.

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Yeah, I knew about the 212~clone, slide hitboxes. It was just odd that it happened off of this setup. I can't replicate it for shit though so I'm guessing whatever happened was pretty exact.

I remember finding the ice clone after 222 before, but never thinking to try jumping....this could make Sub's corner game even more deadly if used right. A well-timed jump clone in itself will pretty much force an opponent to stay there or burn meter to get through.

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why jump clone? The time it takes to do that allows a wakeup attack to blow you up. There is NO way you can jump... clone.. and block anything that comes your way.
This setup is great... but nothing ground breaking. I love it for right outside of the corner.... where you HAVE to use 2,1,2~freeze. If you are ALREADY there... just Hit Confirm 2,1 into the 4. There are only 6... characters that can duck the 2. But you have to pressure them differently anyway.

Again... great setup... I'm glad there are more damaging options for the clone setup than simply doing 2,2,4~slide when I carry them to the corner.

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why jump clone? The time it takes to do that allows a wakeup attack to blow you up. There is NO way you can jump... clone.. and block anything that comes your way.
This setup is great... but nothing ground breaking. I love it for right outside of the corner.... where you HAVE to use 2,1,2~freeze. If you are ALREADY there... just Hit Confirm 2,1 into the 4. There are only 6... characters that can duck the 2. But you have to pressure them differently anyway.

Again... great setup... I'm glad there are more damaging options for the clone setup than simply doing 2,2,4~slide when I carry them to the corner.

Premium Supporter

why jump clone? The time it takes to do that allows a wakeup attack to blow you up. There is NO way you can jump... clone.. and block anything that comes your way.
This setup is great... but nothing ground breaking. I love it for right outside of the corner.... where you HAVE to use 2,1,2~freeze. If you are ALREADY there... just Hit Confirm 2,1 into the 4. There are only 6... characters that can duck the 2. But you have to pressure them differently anyway.

Again... great setup... I'm glad there are more damaging options for the clone setup than simply doing 2,2,4~slide when I carry them to the corner.

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You can only hc into 214 if it's the first part of the string that connects. If the second part of the string hits, you have already dialed in the 2 at the end or the clone you were planning to do, etc. Why should the second part of the string hit when the first didn't? I don't know but this is MK and it happens because holding block is anathema in this game, lol.

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You HC by dialing in 2,1. Obviously you can't confirm if just the 1 hits. But that allows you to step back... clone... rinse repeat. Or you can d4~exFreeze and get the 2,2,2 setup if you desire.

It seems pretty straight forward to me. 2,1 is one of the easiest strings to HC... as well as 2,2 and b1,2.

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It is, but I am just saying, you will end up with situations where you finish the the string as 212 and have to just get what you can get. I'd rather 212, freeze, 1, 222 than 21, d4, ex freeze anyway just because of the unnecessary meter use in the latter.

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Do you have a way of discerning the perfect distance for him to perform the throw at because I usually get knocked down when I try to grab him into the clone?

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I can get it as long as the initial push of the grab shoves them into the clone, the first push is tiny and takes place right before he grabs you back into him. ill be working on a setup to space it out correctly tonight, there should be atleast one.

why jump clone? The time it takes to do that allows a wakeup attack to blow you up. There is NO way you can jump... clone.. and block anything that comes your way.
This setup is great... but nothing ground breaking. I love it for right outside of the corner.... where you HAVE to use 2,1,2~freeze. If you are ALREADY there... just Hit Confirm 2,1 into the 4. There are only 6... characters that can duck the 2. But you have to pressure them differently anyway.

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This about covers it imo. It's decent since you immediately get a clone at close proximity, but I would rather get the extra damage with an untechable slide.

PEGGY Are you talking about the jump clone thing or just a normal clone afterward?

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On another note i believe that an IAC (yea i went there) is the perfect spacing for the clone, its like a 10 foot clone and it prevents neutral jump counter attacks and pretty much renders everything outside of a wakeup attack useless. you can jump in without getting anti aired

hmm, for some characters (w/o meter) basically moving at all would get them frozen by the clone... ever thought about throwing out an ice puddle while they're stuck behind it? well they could just nj i guess, idk. i don't have my MK9 to test atm

This is correct. Also has anyone experimented with throw inyo clone? Ive been getting it alot in matches where I forward throw them into a clone and they get frozen. I know back throw is inconsistent with the freeze but forward throw has worked every time.

Sent from my HTC Sensation XE with Beats Audio using Tapatalk

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Wait, what are you talking about here? Throwing them while they're in the corner and you have a clone up?

Premium Supporter

Wait, what are you talking about here? Throwing them while they're in the corner and you have a clone up?

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Well throwing them into a clone. Usually the situation arises when i place a clone down and someone empty jumps over and blocks as soon as they land. I forward grab and at the very beginning of the grab they get pushed into clone and Get frozen

This is a well-known tactic, not to say I wouldn't give credit to J360 for discovering it on his own, but the reason why most SZs with the exception of Denzel Terry, don't do this tactic enough is because you have to sacrifice damage for the clone setup. For example: if you land 214 in the corner you could potentially get a 38% combo in the corner if you do 214~Freeze,4, 224~Slide (it is 41% if you land it with a jip).

Instead, if you do 214~Freeze, 4, 222 then clone I think it does somewhere around 28-31% range (not sure with the number off the top of my head). However, you do get the clone setup, which causes the opponent to hesitate on their next move. There are definitely advantages and disadvantages to both tactics. For instance, against Reptile this is a an excellent strategy because he could very easily escape the corner with an ex-elbow dash. In contrast, I wouldn't suggest using this in the corner versus Jax since he is most likely going to just armor through it.

Premium Supporter

This is a well-known tactic, not to say I wouldn't give credit to J360 for discovering it on his own, but the reason why most SZs with the exception of Denzel Terry, don't do this tactic enough is because you have to sacrifice damage for the clone setup. For example: if you land 214 in the corner you could potentially get a 38% combo in the corner if you do 214~Freeze,4, 224~Slide (it is 41% if you land it with a jip).

Instead, if you do 214~Freeze, 4, 222 then clone I think it does somewhere around 28-31% range (not sure with the number off the top of my head). However, you do get the clone setup, which causes the opponent to hesitate on their next move. There are definitely advantages and disadvantages to both tactics. For instance, against Reptile this is a an excellent strategy because he could very easily escape the corner with an ex-elbow dash. In contrast, I wouldn't suggest using this in the corner versus Jax since he is most likely going to just armor through it.

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Its all good man I figured it was old, I find it useful in some situations. Its nothing abusable but causes panic against some in the corner. Denzell did it to tyrant and on wake up tyrants ex dash punch didn't make it in time to sub. Seeing as how its his only way through the clone your potentially gaining alot more than 10% on a punish. If he doesn't attack you gain added pressure. I'm not really a sub player anymore but this works out pretty well for my scrubby subby. Another thing is that it leaves you in the distance where a dash in 22 could punish most projectile attempts through the clone.

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