is babylonian 5 any good

It's hard to imagine that anyone who was satisfied by DS9's overall story arc could feel satisfied by Babylon 5. For example, if DS9's treatment of the Prophets seemed fitting, then Babylon 5's treatment of the Vorlons must seem outrageous. Or, if the human role in galactic affairs seems appropriate to human stature in DS9, then Babylon 5 must seem like some kind of self-flagellation. If Section 31 on DS9 seemed so cool, then Nightwatch on Babylon 5 must be some sort of maniacal leftwing caricature. If Sisko's apoetheosis in the cave of Mt. Doom seems like a satisfying climax, then Severed Dreams must be a nightmare.

I don't care if Game of Thrones looks like a visual feast of fantasy and delivers gorgeously ugly people stabbing and fucking each other all out the wazoo, complete with dragons. Babylon 5's story is far more meaningful and interesting than anything we see on Game of Thrones.

I gave up on Babylon-5 early on, but was persuaded to give it a second chance by friends whose judgment I trusted, and, yeah, like TNG, it gets much better by the time you get to the third season or so. It peters out a bit near the end, though. As I recall, I kind of drifted away during the fifth season . . . although I remember catching the series finale.

I rank Babylon 5 up there with The Wire, Neon Genesis Evangelion and I, Claudius as TV storytelling at its peak. It also kicks arse from the start, only messing up slightly in its final season. The Gathering is slightly clunky but it's trying to do somethign brave and different in a way that none of the modern Trek pilots do. Michael O'Hare as Sinclair is my favourite main B5 character so I find myself rewatching S1 a lot more than S5. Hell, I'd take him over any of the Trek captains.

Don't start with In The Beginning. Ruins the entire mystery of Season 1. Boot up The Gathering and let the story unfold.

It's hard to imagine that anyone who was satisfied by DS9's overall story arc could feel satisfied by Babylon 5. For example, if DS9's treatment of the Prophets seemed fitting, then Babylon 5's treatment of the Vorlons must seem outrageous. Or, if the human role in galactic affairs seems appropriate to human stature in DS9, then Babylon 5 must seem like some kind of self-flagellation. If Section 31 on DS9 seemed so cool, then Nightwatch on Babylon 5 must be some sort of maniacal leftwing caricature. If Sisko's apoetheosis in the cave of Mt. Doom seems like a satisfying climax, then Severed Dreams must be a nightmare.

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You're kidding, aren't you?

The Prophets on DS9 were interesting in concept and in the beginnig also in execution, but in the end disolved into a very simplistic good vs. evil thread, while the <REDACTED> vs. <REDACTED> conflict on B5 initialy seemed to be a simple good vs. evil story which then morphed into something much more complex and interesting.

Sec.31 and the Nightwatch can't even be really compared, the Nightwatch is not presented as an secret organisation that operates above the law as Sec.31 is. Also i'm pretty sure that Sec.31 is not supposed to be cool and that the audience should have the same aversion, that Bashir feels.

Sisko becoming one of the Prophets was a good idea but the way it happened was very unsatisfying (as the Prophets storyline had long since fallen apart), while Severed Dreams (where i fail to see any comparability to Sisko's apotheosis) might be one of the best episodes of american sci-fi television.

It's hard to imagine that anyone who was satisfied by DS9's overall story arc could feel satisfied by Babylon 5. For example, if DS9's treatment of the Prophets seemed fitting, then Babylon 5's treatment of the Vorlons must seem outrageous. Or, if the human role in galactic affairs seems appropriate to human stature in DS9, then Babylon 5 must seem like some kind of self-flagellation. If Section 31 on DS9 seemed so cool, then Nightwatch on Babylon 5 must be some sort of maniacal leftwing caricature. If Sisko's apoetheosis in the cave of Mt. Doom seems like a satisfying climax, then Severed Dreams must be a nightmare.

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No need to imagine it. I was satisfied by both and can accept both for what they are, without taking anything away from the other.

I watched In the Beginning first and yes it was spoilerish but it was so damned cool it got me hooked.

Season one can be slow at times, but having seen ItB first I knew that there was going to be a hell of a lot of awesome coming my way if I stuck with it, and sure enough, not only was I not disappointed, I was blown away.

No need to imagine it. I was satisfied by both and can accept both for what they are, without taking anything away from the other.

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I must presume you treated them both as mindless diversion. Yet I must still insist that both had more aspirations than that. And I further suggest that treating them frivolously is a disservice to both shows.

It's hard to imagine that anyone who was satisfied by DS9's overall story arc could feel satisfied by Babylon 5. For example, if DS9's treatment of the Prophets seemed fitting, then Babylon 5's treatment of the Vorlons must seem outrageous. Or, if the human role in galactic affairs seems appropriate to human stature in DS9, then Babylon 5 must seem like some kind of self-flagellation. If Section 31 on DS9 seemed so cool, then Nightwatch on Babylon 5 must be some sort of maniacal leftwing caricature. If Sisko's apoetheosis in the cave of Mt. Doom seems like a satisfying climax, then Severed Dreams must be a nightmare.

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The thing is, though, people can like completely contradictory works of art. Liking DS9's treatment of the Prophets (which I didn't, BTW) doesn't necessarily mean that person would think the treatment of Vorlons was outrageous; they're different shows with different ideals, even if they do have stuff in common. Batman is Batman, but I'm able to enjoy both the Dick Sprang, bright and colorful, Robin-with-no-pants era Batman and the Frank Miller, hidden in the shadows, breaking people's arms Batman. Liking a particular work of art does not preclude one from liking a work of art that goes in a different direction.

Interesting, BTW, that you chose Severed Dreams as B5's equivalent of "Sisko going into the cave of Mt. Doom;" surely that'd be Z'ha'dum?

Do NOT watch In The Beginning first, it will spoil just about the entire series

Unfortunately I didn't start the show until mid Season Four and I was completely spoiled on all the awesome stuff that came before and I really, really wish I could have experienced it as it happened and not have all the mysteries spoiled.

The thing is, though, people can like completely contradictory works of art. Liking DS9's treatment of the Prophets (which I didn't, BTW) doesn't necessarily mean that person would think the treatment of Vorlons was outrageous; they're different shows with different ideals, even if they do have stuff in common. Batman is Batman, but I'm able to enjoy both the Dick Sprang, bright and colorful, Robin-with-no-pants era Batman and the Frank Miller, hidden in the shadows, breaking people's arms Batman. Liking a particular work of art does not preclude one from liking a work of art that goes in a different direction.

Interesting, BTW, that you chose Severed Dreams as B5's equivalent of "Sisko going into the cave of Mt. Doom;" surely that'd be Z'ha'dum?

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Sisko puts down the rebel Prophets and restores authority, whereas Sheridan, well, Sheridan does not. But in one way, Sisko's supreme orderal finds Sheridan's counterpart in "Comes the Inquisitor."

Sheridan doesn't talk to the Vorlons like Sisko talks to the Prophets and I don't think it's merely a matter of the show's different styles. It's a little like perceiving a movie that presents a Civil War story that presumes the Confederate version to be more or less the same as one that presumes slavery is both wrong and the cause of the war. (Except that a science fiction story has no objective truth to go by.)

Does Sisko treat the Prophets like a more or less normal human being possessed of morals and reason? Or does Sheridan treat the Vorlons likewise? I don't see how you can think both are equally valid as characters, at least not without more or less ignoring everything but the most superficial aspects.

The Centauri trilogy I have but have yet to read because of my Peter David allergy, but I have every intention of getting over it and reading them. Vir was much better round. Crusade was more interesting after reading Galen's story in the technomage trilogy.

Psi Corp trilogy was a quick read and had some excellent Bester development.

I suppose I shouldn't handwring over people's failure to read the technomage trilogy when I've failed to read the Centauri trilogy.. but KingDaniel if you are reading this you of all people still have no excuse considering how much abysmal Treklit you've read and retained.

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I haven't read any of them i've been hunting the books but have only found a few, and I don't want to start reading a set until I have them all, for fear that I would go mad if I couldn't finish a story.

I hear the trilogies are the best and some of the numbered series is patchy in comparison. You definitely do not want to read the trilogies unless you have all 3! I paid at least 20 dollars for one of the books on ebay, very worth it.

Unless you live in communist China, your public library should ave everything... Unless they've been stolen or treated very poorly and then sold because they're falling apart.

Don't just go to your nearest convenient library, check the online catalogue, which should tabulate all the libraries in your district/area/city/state-whatever as one giant database, and then a white panel van will drive for hours to bring that book to your personal library.

Ditto for comics.

The Comics abut Valen are god damned awful.

For gods sake man! A comic book is like being given the reigns to a movie with a trillion,trillion dollar budget... And this is all you could squeeze out of the the Minbari not born of Minbari's endgame?

Isn't there times in life when you just want to say things like...

"They're using you! They're using you!"

Or...

"There are things that have been happening for the last year that we have not been allowed to tell you!"

Fox News is being reamed somehow by the Establishment.

I'll stand up for FOX News' right to be a fear mongering asshole, but I'll snigger and smirk while I'm at it.