...note to self never mention Phil Lesh in a Thread.how about Matt Freeman, or flea

So I burnt the toast by bringing up Phil Leah's name in a semi-blasphemous manner, wont happen again. My new question is, are some contemporary bass players any good I.e Matt freeman, les claypool, flea, p-nut (I don't know if he does anything anymore, he kinda just fell off the map). It seems that some of these "youngsters" may have been less trained but still pretty good. Even though they play different styles.Genres that may not be directly related to Jazz or classical or what ever but are they still valid musicians. Yes I am aware of the Flea/Jazz connection but Flea was also the bass player for Fear for a short stint.

So I burnt the toast by bringing up Phil Leah's name in a semi-blasphemous manner, wont happen again. My new question is, are some contemporary bass players any good I.e Matt freeman, les claypool, flea, p-nut (I don't know if he does anything anymore, he kinda just fell off the map). It seems that some of these "youngsters" may have been less trained but still pretty good. Even though they play different styles.Genres that may not be directly related to Jazz or classical or what ever but are they still valid musicians. Yes I am aware of the Flea/Jazz connection but Flea was also the bass player for Fear for a short stint.

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[FWIW, I appreciated your Lesh thread, Glenn. To me it sounded like you were being honest and curious. Never bad things. And what you wrote stimulated an interesting discussion.]

As for this new thread...

What is 'good'? What does it mean? Sure, you can observe and assess the technical ability of a musician - if by technical ability is meant speed, precision, mastery of all aspects of the instrument's capabilities. I guess you could also subject a willing musician to a test of his/her knowledge of music theory, history n so forth. But are these the things that make a musician 'good'? Not neccesarily. Not by a long shot.

So I burnt the toast by bringing up Phil Leah's name in a semi-blasphemous manner, wont happen again.

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So, you lack the emotional maturity to start a good thread, and then get more upset when you don't like the results? Grow up.

Your thread on Phil Lesh basically comprised of you "lolol he sounds liek hes practicing scales lololol". This demonstrates, firstly, that you haven't heard much of Phil Lesh's bass lines and don't have the critical capacity, or good enough ears, to truely understand what he is playing.

And guess what? I'm not posting this as a rabid deadhead or fan of Phil Lesh. I live in Scotland and I'm too young to have seen the Dead even if I was in the US. There is no Dead culture here. I know one other bassist here that talks about Lesh at all. I don't listen to the Dead that much, and even then I've noticed that Phil makes mistakes. There is already a really good thread on Phil Lesh on here, so why start the 4chan equivalent?

Also your thread started with the classic "I'm not X, but...", as in "I'm not racist, but..." or "I don't hate pizza, but...". Always a winning start.

Your thread was a glorified blog post. You didn't want to hear conflicting opinion or anything analytical. You wanted a few dudebros to say "yeah man, I agree" and leave it at that. You seem genuinely surprised (and by 'surprised' I mean 'butthurt'), that your poorly worded, poorly researched, badly argued and intellectually bankrupt observations on Phil Lesh were met with derision. Again, grow up.

In terms of just a mainstream or semi-mainstream rock music or any genera? Do you listen to a lot of newer music? I mean there has always been well rounded great musicians in contemporary music and well-rounded always. Great players like to eat too. The players that you mentioned are not just musicians but performers as well some high energy charismatic players that command and have stage presence and in their respective genera that can be as important in getting to be that household name.

If you really are just asking there are so many to mention I mean just yesterday by reading different threads here on TB I got turned on to the bass player from Bruno Mars Jamereo watching play live his crafting of bass lines around contemporary pop music is up there not all the way but very Jamerson like, he is fantastic. Or off the beaten path a little but appreciate and listen to all types of well written music the latest bassist from experimental metal Meshuggah, Dick Lovgren who does some great playing in odd time signatures with them is also a schooled jazz musician. You have to do some of your own digging around I mean heck we are on the innerwebs right now.

In general: I've read (what seems to be) some real hatred here towards some bass players. I don't get it. If a person doesn't like this, that or the other thing then that's fine because it's your choice and preferance. And no one says you have to like it all. But why the written hate that comes about on occasion?

Never mind hatred towards bass players, there sure seems to be a lot of...antipathy...towards GlennCarbon.

Most, if not all, have agreed it's GlennCarbon's right not to like/get Phil Lesh.

In fact, Glenn didn't post much in the Phil-bash thread at all. So let's remind ourselves of what Glenn acually DID write.

Yes, I've edited. If you want, you can go through and find the bits where Glenn is still not liking/getting some things about Phil Lesh (you'll find no lololing, though. If you hear lololing it may well be defensive, projected lololing originating in your very own head, I suggest).

After a few posts from others, Glenn responded:

:GlennCarbon:
I would be interested in hearing his "pieces". One way I look at him is that he was a pioneer of the style...

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Sounds like Glenn is listening and re-assessing to me.

A little later:

GlennCarbon
Don't get me wrong the Dead are a good band to learn or steal from but I cant sit down and listen to the live tracks...

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More listening. A compliment. And some honesty.

Further on:

GlennCarbon:
Like I said earlier, I get some things about him and I understand that he was a pioneer in the genre. I rarely play the same line twice. I think that music should be like a joke or conversation, something that is never said the same twice or as something you had to be there for to really get. Call me a snob. I also would like to state that no one has been hashed here yet! So points for us! GO TEAM!!!!!! High fives!

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Sounds positively affirmative to my ears!

Much later:

GlennCarbon
Wow some people are wound a little to tight, but in the long run this thread is pretty interesting. I have been shown a lot of things both positvie and negative.

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Quite.

And finally:

GlennCarbon:
This is the conclusion I have made for myself (it does not mean everybody has to think this). Phil Lesh is a talented musician and should be respected for what he has done. Just because he is talented does not mean I have to emulate him. I got to hear some good examples of him playing somewhat conventionally and now I know he wasn't just fishing for notes he was in fact breaking new ground and boldly going where no man has gone before.

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So let us not continue to bash GlennCarbon. Let us rejoice that Glenn has listened, learned and modified his views somewhat. Yes, Glenn may still have some issues with Phil...and with some of the more aggressive Phil defenders... but can't we leave that behind us and get on with this new thread?

WHO'S ANY GOOD???

NOTE: Services as defence counsel for the misunderstood and misrepresented are provided free of charge.

Never mind hatred towards bass players, there sure seems to be a lot of...antipathy...towards GlennCarbon.

Most, if not all, have agreed it's GlennCarbon's right not to like/get Phil Lesh.

In fact, Glenn didn't post much in the Phil-bash thread at all. So let's remind ourselves of what Glenn acually DID write.

Yes, I've edited. If you want, you can go through and find the bits where Glenn is still not liking/getting some things about Phil Lesh (you'll find no lololing, though. If you hear lololing it may well be defensive, projected lololing originating in your very own head, I suggest).

After a few posts from others, Glenn responded:

Sounds like Glenn is listening and re-assessing to me.

A little later:

More listening. A compliment. And some honesty.

Further on:

Sounds positively affirmative to my ears!

Much later:

Quite.

And finally:

[/B]

So let us not continue to bash GlennCarbon. Let us rejoice that Glenn has listened, learned and modified his views somewhat. Yes, Glenn may still have some issues with Phil...and with some of the more aggressive Phil defenders... but can't we leave that behind us and get on with this new thread?

WHO'S ANY GOOD???

NOTE: Services as defence counsel for the misunderstood and misrepresented are provided free of charge.

To be honest, I never liked any of the bassists that the OP mentioned, but we all have different tastes. I'm sure some people like the same players I do and some people do not. We all have our own opinions. It really doesn't matter as long as we each find something enjoyable in the music listen to and play.

I would have to say talkbass is the most interesting thing on the Internet that does not involve nudity! Obimark, if you wana hear some of my chops I have two threads on the double bass forum with some youtube clips of my playing. Check under bluegrass and basses. I really did learn a lot from the Phil thread, I consider it a success. I know how have a different way to look at my playing and I have a base understating of the madness that is Phil. Means2anend, to be honest I haven't listened to new music in a while and what makes this even better the last album I bought was "working mans dead" and that was to years ago. All the music I get to listen to is the stuff I have to learn for work......and like 90% of it ain't good. I live in n.e.p.a, If I get a sub-gig its all like 80's rock nothing all that good and you don't really get a chance to shine as the audiance is generally frightened by "jamming". When I first started playing bass I was really into punk and hardcore punk from the late 70's early 80's and Rancid and other epitaph bands, now that I have "matured" I think music is great on all ends. I.e the destruction and simplification to the more intilectual and expressive. The question I am bringing up to all of us here is what makes us good, intellectual playing, speed and technical ability, or how we express ourselves. Like if it was just chrisima then like wouldn't Sid vicious be considered the best bassist ever?

Your upright bass solo sounded pretty good. I guess my point is listen to whoever you like and decide if they are good. When I was younger I thought guys like Ian Hill weren't that good, now that I have gained experience and realize it is about playing for the song, not yourself I think the more laid back rock bassist's are some of the best there are.

Matt Freeman- yes, he is good. Matt's biggest influence was John Entwistle and to me it shows. The beauty of his playing is that Rancids punk format is quite simple and he has a lot of room to weave his lines through. Untraditional for sure but in the long run the guys that break tradition usually leave the biggest impact. Matt also plays upright in his solo project "Devils Brigade" and is pretty good at the rockabilly stuff (while singing). Key tracks to listen to for diversity would be Maxwell Murder, Wrongful suspicion, 1998, Time Bomb, Rwanda, Golden Gate Fields, Bridge of Gold.

Flea- yes, he is good. Another player with baselines that literally make the songs. Listen to Dani California and imagine it without the bass line. Just isn't the same. He also did session work for hip hop producers early in his career and is an accomplished trumpet player. Pretty much any Chili Peppers song is a showcase for his playing. Some are tasteful, some are virtuosic, some are both.

As for the other guys you mentioned I don't know a lot of their work but I'm sure they have at least one aspect of their playing dialed in if they are where they are.

Other more modern bands with great bass work would be:

A Wilhelm Scream
Muse
Sick of It All
Alabama Shakes
Haim
Periphery
Dillinger Escape Plan
Evan Brewer plays with The Faceless but his playing is pretty hard to pick out with them. Check out his solo stuff for some impressive bass acrobatics.

Thank you for both listening to my stuff and for the complement. I hope I don't sound like someone fishing for complements. I have taught myself everything I know, I didn't go to some fancy school that uses pencils and robots to teach people how to play. I write these posts, because this is how I am learning more and more about about Mt "profession". I understand that my posts may sound sarcastic/not serious but really do we need to toss our humor aside to be able to learn. The topics I'm bringing up are completely serious, I'm not trying to shake any cages or write something to get a rise out of people, I just deliver them in a semi absurd way. We are all bass players here we should be cool to each other, its not like we are singers who don't play anything, like come on, aren't those guys the worst? We should he trashing our singers here, engaging in stimulating conversation and bashing singers who don't play an insterment and chicks dig. We should also maybe start making lists of bars in our home areas that don't give free drinks to the bands and black list them.

When I was twelve I started to get into music, I was taking lessons but my folks wouldn't buy me a bass till they knew it was something I was going to stick with. Anyway, that Christmas I got Rancids album "out come the wolves" I remember putting the c.d on and getting blown away by "Maxwell murder", great bass solo and its like 45 seconds or whatever into the song. Great way to start an album. I think my solos are good but nowhere near as good as that one. I saw Matt do a solo for the song "dead bodies" on a warped tour video or something like that and it was also dead on crazy.

Right on man. Matt Freeman was my first bass influence and is still one of my favourite players. Very unique voice and one of those rare players tht could play 90% of a song on the D and G strings while still sounding powerful.