Precisely. RIFT never tried to be the WoW killer, though some fans certainly wanted to paint it in that light early on. RIFT does it's thing. That's why it doesn't feel like such a failure.

Uh... their tagline was 'we're not in azeroth anymore'. PREEEEEEEEEEEEEETTTTTTY sure directly referencing your main competitor in your tagline (and in the majority of your on air advertisements) is trying to take on WoW, but deny it all you want.

"When you do things right, people won't be sure you have done anything at all."

I do enjoy how when people wish to ignore evidence, suddenly it's to be subjected to the relevance test for criminal court. And of course, it's a much better proposition to give credence to the claims of the anonymous masses on the internet then industry reporters. That's certainly what I tell my doctor when he suggests those useless so-called vaccines!

If you want to believe that the flagship title of a game studio, a title widely believed to be the single most expensive title ever produced, that this title performed "disappointingly" (and is known non-affectionately as "TorTannic") is no more related to the stock slide than any other game... well, I should doubt you are exactly open to being convinced.

If you wish to consider a game that sold ~2 million boxes, but maintains a player base of perhaps 500,000 a success... well, what can one say?

Notice that EA's stock has been mostly shit for the better part of the last 4 years.

The stock was at a nearly 4 year high in August of 2011, dropped to between 20-23 a share until the end of the year. Then it began to tail off early in the beginning of 2012 before they ever announced their quarterly reports for Q4 of 2011. It was a downward trend that began before the game ever released. Did it help them? No. But the market is based more around analysts than actual data. People make decisions based on what analysts tell you is going to happen and when they're wrong, people sell their stock in order to cut their losses. Now, the real question is, do these analysts know enough about video games to make judgements? Remember that, in the grand scheme of things, this industry is relatively new to the market.

This is great considering how you didn't notice that the stock drop started pre-swtor.

Its like saying that the war in Afghanistan is why the middle east hates the US.

Never mind that they hated the US before the war.

Or better yet, if when the captain of the titanic struck an iceberg and as the ship was sinking declared that the fatter people were to blame for the boat sinking.

Simply put, there's more to the boat sinking then just the weight of a handful of individuals.

---------- Post added 2012-10-05 at 08:08 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Rhaide

Uh... their tagline was 'we're not in azeroth anymore'. PREEEEEEEEEEEEEETTTTTTY sure directly referencing your main competitor in your tagline (and in the majority of your on air advertisements) is trying to take on WoW, but deny it all you want.

No, its just true.

Its called Telara. Not Azeroth.

They were just informing people that when you play rift you are no longer in Azeroth.

If they didn't do that people might think Telara was just another continent like kalimdor or eastern kingdoms.

I myself a staunch believer of almost all things star wars do think this game failed in its execution and sustainability. At the start the game was a great success, but with a few bugs and a world pvp fiasco things started going from there.

here are a few things from my point of view

1 was Ilum i LOVED logging every Tuesday morning and seeing ppl on fleet looking for me to head to Ilum. I was a avid Imp killer and played the part well and ALWAYS headed there for my weekly. I hated the freeze frame way that it always was even with my comp that is prolly 3rd rate in terms of performance. But it was a fun way of doing my pvp instead of running WZs all the time.
Then they tried their fixes and totally destroyed Ilum and all the fun i had there.

2 was the daily grind and the insane cost of getting relics. 120 daily comms for implants and earpieces along with 200 comms for a relic. these were teh ealry stat get yourself geared up for SM EV/KP type things but you would have to run dailies for a WEEK just to get enough comms for those said pieces, ALONG with getting your 23 mods and barrels. while i didnt mind the daily grind at first after 3 weeks of them i just could NOT DO them anymore.

3 the 2hr long wait for LFG and finally getting the grp just to have it break up 1 hr later and rinse repeat. I was a disdainer of the LFG tool but realized how much of a necessity it really was. then when they finally get it up on the PTS it always returned you to your original location BUT in live it always brought you back to fleet.
SO if you wanted your daily and were in the middle of questing or daily running you would accept que and have to run/fly/speeder your all the way back through packs of mobs just to get to where you left off, ALONG with the multitude of load screens too boot.

4 was some QoL issues with bugs, my main one was the shooting my cannon off my back during combat. that was my only issue but from what i read there are many others.

5 I LOVE the cut scenes in this game but i mean DAMN after my 5th 50 I really want to have a way to skip them other than SBar (not sure if there was ever a way) there are the only ones i like are the class story and planet story i do not want any others.

6 companions. i like that you first companion had a story that you were a part of but the others were just pixels that talked and i just didnt like that. the only reason I managed to get so many companions maxed was for the presence bonus to my companions. ther really needed to be more interaction to the companions.

7 dailies. EVERYBODY on Official forums gave plenty of info about making the bounty boards more interesting. my suggestion was to make the dailies random whereas they change with the day and are not the same thing over and over, make missions where we had to go attack faction bases in wither grp or solo play, pvp missions that had the same thing attack faction bases and get rewards for winning or defending(outside of WZs the only good 1s like that are Alderaan and Novare).

8 the operations. OK this is a FUCKING WAR between Republic and Empire WHY IN all the FORCE are we not attacking imperial and republic installations and taking control of planets and stuff. Instead we get these stupid both faction Ops that have no impact on the war its self. I HATE going into Karragas palace because as far as I can see he has NO foreseeable use or action. Soa i can see that both needed to take down because he threatened the galaxy as a whole. Denova is a great Op and i can also see its connection to both sides there, but in the end NONE of these have any real use within the game other than to provide loot for both factions. I wanted to go take down Malgus in a MAJOR pitched battle, blast my way through hundreds of Sith to get my piece of the emperor.

9 faction NPCs. I HATED that Revan such a notable character within the era is a simple mid game boss in a FLASHPOINT!!!! Malgus again killed in a flashpoint. Killran again in a flashpoint. i mean these are dudes that made it to the top we kill them off with nar a care and hardly i fight. Malgus alone shoulda been a Operation lvl boss. Revan they coulda made into a Imp only Operation where he ammased an army with the help of the republic and went to go kill the Emperor. SPEAKING of him he doesnt even get the status of being a FLASHPOINT lvl boss he is killed in the JK story arc(sorry if there are the rare few who did not know this).

10 Ops lvl itemization. DAMN if i get soooo much DR on crit/surge why does EVERY SINGLE piece of my commandos gear have NOTHING BUT crit and surge. I get the idea that we can customize and refit our armor but man when I see my manndos rakata is BETTER OFF then some og the BH gear whats the point in waisting the comms on them. I take 50 comms each time i get them but the BH hands and use just the mod and enhancement being thta I need those more than any other piece of BH gear. I only get the others for the Armorings since armorings are now piece specific which was a VERY stupid move and i think is whay ppl are shooting more for the Offhands to get the armorings and mods and put them into the bracer ad waist slots. but wait until BW catches up wit h that too, then the Offhand armorings will ALSO be piece specific. I was looking at the hazmat implants and i lose SO MUCH power for crit that i DO NOT NEED the endurance i can see some what as the bosses do more damage as the tiers progress but DAMN for that endurance i lose so much AIM . ok ill end this one here

there are a few other things that make this game slowly no longer playable by me except for the progression ops nights and my occasional need to go forth and destroy Imps or repubs(depends on if im feeling good or evil lol) but Ill stop here as the reasons that I am losing faith in this game and prolly will no longer play faithfully anymore. Ill be the idiot that still subs for the coins but meh i might not even do that for long.

end of my rant on the failure of this couldah been a contendah game

---------- Post added 2012-10-05 at 08:47 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Kittyvicious

Well for starters...I can say that this wasn't your argument. Otherwise it could have been accomplished by this one statement and not a whole post of nonsense with a graph plopped in it. It was 'drawn out' because you spent an entire post with conjecture, hoping that the one factual piece of information (which was a graph) would tie it all together. It didn't. Using quotes to your own purpose, even though they aren't your words is a great strategy for drawing out a point. You could have said one sentence to capture your main point and had a lot more weight to it as a personal opinion.

Nevermind that the accurate rebuttal would have been the same. If you feel that one product, for a company that makes hundreds of fairly equally weighted projects caused an entire year's worth of declining value, then I do not want you investing my money. Thankfully the general investment population isn't as knee jerk reactive as you are, or EA would have gone bankrupt in a month.

Actually...maybe that would have been a great thing.

while yes the stock was indeed dropping I believe that EA thought that swtor was gonna be their SAVIOR of their company and bring back in mony that t was slowly losing. It promised that much with all their advertising that swotr is gonna be the greatest MMO out there or how ever they put it, main point they taold investors that swtor was gonna make back all their money.

now after alll the cash and resources bled into this game and the HUGE drop in players over that last 9 or so months investors no longer have much faith in the company it looks like and are slowly pulling out

does EA have more than just swtor yes BUT did EA bank on it to make sooo much money to its investors YES and did it fail GOD YES so i cna agree to a degree that swtor is a major factor i not the main factor in EAs dropping stock price

---------- Post added 2012-10-05 at 08:50 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Kittyvicious

Well for starters...I can say that this wasn't your argument. Otherwise it could have been accomplished by this one statement and not a whole post of nonsense with a graph plopped in it. It was 'drawn out' because you spent an entire post with conjecture, hoping that the one factual piece of information (which was a graph) would tie it all together. It didn't. Using quotes to your own purpose, even though they aren't your words is a great strategy for drawing out a point. You could have said one sentence to capture your main point and had a lot more weight to it as a personal opinion.

Nevermind that the accurate rebuttal would have been the same. If you feel that one product, for a company that makes hundreds of fairly equally weighted projects caused an entire year's worth of declining value, then I do not want you investing my money. Thankfully the general investment population isn't as knee jerk reactive as you are, or EA would have gone bankrupt in a month.

Actually...maybe that would have been a great thing.

while yes the stock was indeed dropping I believe that EA thought that swtor was gonna be their SAVIOR of their company and bring back in mony that t was slowly losing. It promised that much with all their advertising that swotr is gonna be the greatest MMO out there or how ever they put it, main point they taold investors that swtor was gonna make back all their money.

now after alll the cash and resources bled into this game and the HUGE drop in players over that last 9 or so months investors no longer have much faith in the company it looks like and are slowly pulling out

does EA have more than just swtor yes BUT did EA bank on it to make sooo much money to its investors YES and did it fail GOD YES so i cna agree to a degree that swtor is a major factor i not the main factor in EAs dropping stock price

Originally Posted by hk-51

No, its just true.

Its called Telara. Not Azeroth.

They were just informing people that when you play rift you are no longer in Azeroth.

If they didn't do that people might think Telara was just another continent like kalimdor or eastern kingdoms.

Obviously.

dude ppl can try to deny it all they want but yes rift WAS indeed trying to go after WoW and when it failed ppl tried to protect them by saying that it never was going after wow.

rift wanted a piece of wow and it failed. that 1 phrase alone is an attack wow just as the jawa Blizz as an attack on WoW. dey it all you want but it is what it is

#2. None of that shit was necessary to run SM EV/KP. You could do it in blue gear. Possibly even some green gear. It was definitely a grind to acquire those implants, but how else were you going to make credits aside from Biochem crafting or pre-nerf Slicing? Then, you could just buy them off of the GTN.

#3. I think we can all agree that a same server LFG tool was necessary. Cross server....well....nah.

#5. Definitely no way to skip the movies. Would have been nice though. Gotta agree that the planet story arcs got super, super old after your first 50.

#8. Karragga's story involves the Dread Masters. Can't disagree that it would have been nice to have some Ops that were similar to how BT was for Imps and Esselles was for Pubs. But they were ripping pages out of WoW's book. There's a war going on, but there's a greater good in the adversary to both factions.

#9. I think you're under the assumption that Revan was gone. You never killed him, you merely defeated him. Malgus? Who knows, but I agree that it seems kind of odd that he would be a high level FP and not an Op boss.

I think you were expecting a game that was a little different from your basic MMO, but TOR was too busy doing things that had already been done. You know, aside from full cutscenes.

#8. Karragga's story involves the Dread Masters. Can't disagree that it would have been nice to have some Ops that were similar to how BT was for Imps and Esselles was for Pubs. But they were ripping pages out of WoW's book. There's a war going on, but there's a greater good in the adversary to both factions.

lil off topic but was unaware of karagga being part of dread masters gonna have to look up that a bit more. yea i realize that tor was ripping straight from wow but thats where they should realized that wow its self was getting stale and gone down a parallel rather than the same road. but hey hindsight is always the best way to evaluate what shoulda been done over what was done

its my belief that tor was so busy making a game the failed to EVOLVE the game as well. it was game breaking in a lotta ways but some things they just never learned from mmos of the past and for that they paid the price

dude ppl can try to deny it all they want but yes rift WAS indeed trying to go after WoW and when it failed ppl tried to protect them by saying that it never was going after wow.

rift wanted a piece of wow and it failed. that 1 phrase alone is an attack wow just as the jawa Blizz as an attack on WoW. dey it all you want but it is what it is

Who needs to defend Rift? They're still going after WoW. Save a Panda anyone? And I wouldn't say they failed. Seems like they're doing pretty well considering the first stress test for their first expansion's beta started today.

Yet because the game failed to meet expectations and failed to retain over a million players, is it a failure? How do we define exactly what a failure is? Partly because I can't post this on the official forums without an active subscription, I'm posting it here (equips flame retardant shield) among other locations. The idea behind the video is exploring whether or not SW:TOR should be considered a failure. Personally, I think it has been a pretty big disappointment; but then again, so was EverQuest II yet it retained a sizable playerbase years after release. I believe SW:TOR failed to meet many expectations, but as long as BioWare are still pumping out content updates for a playerbase which remains relatively stable over a long time period, I can't say it's a failure. Obviously, to achieve a relatively stable population like Rift and EQ2, the game has to be doing something right in order to keep those people pleased. Ultimately, I think it's too early to say with 100% certainty either way. I specifically site Warhammer Online as an example of a failed MMO, yet it took that game awhile to reach its horrid state. Even though BioWare are still pumping out content updates, a couple years down the road, SW:TOR could also be sitting in maintenance mode with only a couple active servers.

Anyway, check out the video and let me know why you do or do not consider the game a failure.

I believe that one central premise of your OP, that SWTOR has achieved a stable population, is in error. It has suffered massive drops in player population with each quarter, and we don't know if that trend will continue. Even the F2P model doesn't guarantee stability. The consolidation of servers, which was so badly needed, doesn't guarantee stability either.

Hopefully it is in the process of stabilizing the population, and I'm not saying that stablization isn't happening; I'm just saying it's too soon to know that it has achieved that stability.

---------- Post added 2012-10-05 at 06:04 PM ----------

Is it fair to consider SWTOR a failure? Of course it is fair to consider it a failure! SWTOR is a failure, on many levels, but most importantly it failed, badly, on the expectations that it started with, namely the subscriber base it expected to possess at this point.

What is important to understand is that it does not need to remain a failure. It could still end up as a success, but that depends on Bioware and EA.

Who needs to defend Rift? They're still going after WoW. Save a Panda anyone? And I wouldn't say they failed. Seems like they're doing pretty well considering the first stress test for their first expansion's beta started today.

they made all attempts in advertising that they wanted a piece of wow and that they were gonna get it. they failed in that attempt. most ppl that were all over rift said it would kill wow it failed, did the game itself fail no.

MANY a games and their playerbases said that it was gonna be the next wow but couldnt deliver...BUT this is not a game verse game area so i wont go there any further than whats been said.

Rift is still a good game from what i hear i may even try but never did i say the game ITSSELF failed.

"Failure" is a purely subjective term, also very contextual and that context is easily shifted through semantics, soooo asking if the game can be considered a failure is just silly.

Example: I played the game straight for almost 7 months, it was a blast, one of the best times I ever had playing an MMO, and the actual leveling experience with a friend was bar none. I have since unsubbed, probably won't even play again, even when it goes F2P, simply because I like enjoying multiple games now, not just sticking to WoW or SWTOR.

See how that works?

Originally Posted by Komie

They still say Cata needs a lot of work, and this expansion (edit for reference: MoP) is in the final stages.

"WoW fans constantly doing a compare and contrast are the only people putting games like SWTOR and Rift down, and it really is a shame"

The WOW fans are not doing a contrast and compare with SWTOR and/or Rift. I am one of them, and am pretty neutral about the fate of these games (although I was interested enough to read through these threads).

The people creating unrealistic expectations for any competition to WOW are those trying to put WOW down - that is the WOW-haters, not the fans. I would prefer that the MMO business in general grow and embed itself as a fixture in today's society, and in a good way not just in the overdramatized catastrophes that the media likes to obsess about. And I would be very ok with WOW having serious competition. The realities that I am seeing based on the difficulties faced by SWTOR and other MMOs makes me really appreciate what Blizzard has accomplished in the past, and what they are accomplishing today. Making, and maintaining, a good MMO is just plain hard.

My best wishes to SWTOR and to those who enjoy the game. For those having fun playing the game... well by definition having fun playing is NOT failure

Was SWTOR a bad game? No, not really. Did Bioware have what it takes to make a good MMO? No, not really.

SWTOR had everything that a good MMO should have, but nothing that would keep you playing long-term. They poured so much of their resources into the leveling experience that the rest of the game felt lacking. It was literally Kotor III with multiplayer elements.

Would I consider it a failure? Based on what they were shooting for, absolutely. The game has probably been the biggest disappointment of the past several years considering how big a project it was and the IP that it was representing. The forever-bashed Star War Galaxies already has a better rep.

I also believe that EA gave up on it too quickly, as did the fans. Players are too impatient nowadays and they don't want to wait around for things to get better, as I'm sure they would have eventually. If any other company but EA was running the show, I'm positive the game would be in a better place today. But if any other company but Bioware would have developed it, the game would have been a much bigger success. They just didn't have what it takes to make an MMO.

they made all attempts in advertising that they wanted a piece of wow and that they were gonna get it. they failed in that attempt. most ppl that were all over rift said it would kill wow it failed, did the game itself fail no.

MANY a games and their playerbases said that it was gonna be the next wow but couldnt deliver...BUT this is not a game verse game area so i wont go there any further than whats been said.

Rift is still a good game from what i hear i may even try but never did i say the game ITSSELF failed.

Trion never said they were going to be the next WoW. In fact, I would have to say by the idea of "Not in Azeroth anymore" they were trying to make it clear they WEREN'T WoW. Personally, the first time I played it, I thought it was a WoW clone. Then I realized just how in depth the game actually is and how much of a clone it is not.

The thing that attracts most people about WoW is undoubtedly the loveliness they have put into some things over these years. Which in turn, SWTOR lacked. Let me describe.

First off, the graphics engine. Without ANY truly big performance killers it was initially designed to take that comic route and exceptionally exceeded in portraying the warcraft world. One has to agree that it is absolutely lovely how the connection between older games of the Warcraft series is drawn just by giving the game this particular look. Until this day Blizzard never really re-invented the wheel graphically but kept adding minor things like textures or animations whilst staying TRUE to the path they chose when releasing the game.

Another BIG part of why WoW is so resilient is simply the flow, the directness of play, the animations. I would consider myself as MMORPG veteran and have tried several games out over the course of many years. Yet there has to be one but WoW to really impress me gameplay-wise. It is absolutely lovely how even the smallest pet in WoW has FITTING and LOVELY made animations. Everyone seems to bother about the big picture, big quests with crazy cinematics displaying the epicness of a game. Which is totally wrong in my opinion. So the creators of SWTOR thought that a truly gripping 'storyline' was what people missed in an MMO and created a game full of 3d dialogues and dumped a ton of money to act as flawless and perfect as possible. But if we look at WoW for once, it's not so perfect at ALL. Many of the cinematics currently existing in WoW aren't beautiful and graphically stunning and far from perfect. Ironically enough some of them are rather funny to watch. But we get to see a certain loveliness in executing and using such an old engine. And this is what people admire, they put a certain effort into every piece of content they release. Of course there can't always be a balance of classes and gameplay in an ever-changing world.

By no means did SWTOR look bad but they really TRIED to impress people graphically in the first place, which we all can see now, didn't lead to anything but the demise of their own game in the end. All we've got is a chunk of hardware devouring graphics that were crowned with (imo) ugly and choppy animations. On top of that we've been fed with an already used engine of a game that has been developed by the same people. LAZY screams my mind.

Also another thing that crosses my mind is that we need to consider the amount of Star Wars franchises on the market and compare it to the amount of Warcraft franchises... which you can't really compare with each other in the first place. But the way humanity rates things in life is always the same. If I get too much of something I wont enjoy it as I should. Which is exactly the problem with a Star Wars MMO in my opinion. How can a franchise with a gazillion spin-offs be interesting in an all-new MMO to people when we had a 'The Force Unleashed 1 to 15' here, a Jedi Knight 1 to 200 there, a SW: Pod-racer there again? The whole warcraft universe didn't have more than 3 simple games prior to WoW. Overview. You maintain that overview over the warcraft universe. In all honesty, I can't and dont want to understand the star wars universe with 150 games you could play. I've watched the movies and that's it. But to truly understand one would need to dig deeper into lore. You might adapt the same thing to WoW but the lore was so much easier to grasp and access that even my brother who had never played warcraft before WoW was quickly consumed by it.

It's simple, effective and smart that they truly developed the story off of Warcraft III and took it into a believable direction. People maintained their overview. The reason many people found (and still find) WoW so attracting were the big names of lore in the RTS games that were drawn into the WoW. We had an Arthas going batsh*t crazy with a sick sword and wanted to truly find out what really happened to the guy we all played and see unfold in Warcraft 3. And what does Blizzard do? They GIVE us that guy as a boss. They GIVE people things that truly have an epic feeling by giving this boss some over-proportional 4 or 5 phase battle. They don't release a Warcraft 4, they put it all into this MMO.

And that is what most MMOs truly lack in my eyes, loveliness and a sense of truth and credibility executed and processed into gameplay, graphics AND lore. Humans scent existant or non-existant credibility in an instant, as with other humans so with games. And sadly, SWTOR had none of either loveliness nor credibility. What Blizzard does is amazingly smart and will keep the customers high for years to come.

In no way putting this out as blizzard or WoW fanboy, but we have to give it to them in my very humble opinion.

This entire post is a "WoW vs. TOR" post. We're not asking for comparisons. But to your point, WoW looks like it was drawn in crayon. As for your lore statements, Star Wars is crammed full of lore and, guess what, people still eat that shit up. If George Lucas decided he was actually going to make Episodes 7-9 (which he's already stated he won't), people would go see those shits too. People love Star Wars. That's why they keep making more games and writing more books and making more cartoons. Because people will buy them because people love Star Wars. Let's put it this way, do you believe that the game would have sold as many copies as it did if it was a Mass Effect MMO? Probably not. Oh, and WoW's lore is some of the worst hack fantasy writing there is. You can go on about how great it is, but most people, including many people who still play the game, will tell you that WoW's lore is not very good.

As for the rest of your post, you sound like you really don't know what you're talking about. But, really, this is one of the biggest pro-WoW posts that I've seen in a long time. Especially when you said that Blizzard puts a certain effort into every piece of content they release. That part was laughable. 4.1 comes to mind. 3.2 also.

The thing that attracts most people about WoW is undoubtedly the loveliness they have put into some things over these years. Which in turn, SWTOR lacked. Let me describe.
[snip]
And that is what most MMOs truly lack in my eyes, loveliness and a sense of truth and credibility executed and processed into gameplay, graphics AND lore. Humans scent existant or non-existant credibility in an instant, as with other humans so with games. And sadly, SWTOR had none of either loveliness nor credibility. What Blizzard does is amazingly smart and will keep the customers high for years to come.

In no way putting this out as blizzard or WoW fanboy, but we have to give it to them in my very humble opinion.

Well what can I say, I thought this thread was about 'Is it fair to consider SW:TOR a failure?' not how wonderful WoW is, yes comparisons will be made but do we really need a full blown love letter sealed with a kiss to Blizzard?
I would try and put a counter argument forward but it would be about as pointless as talking to a love struck teenager idolising about the super model who had moved in next door.

Originally Posted by Silverhands

In no way putting this out as blizzard or WoW fanboy, but we have to give it to them in my very humble opinion.

SWTOR is the greatest mmo for levelling 1-50 from a storyline and jus enjoyability factor, but in everything else its a total failure, so i would say it is fair to consider the game a failure.

Combat leaves alot to be wished for, they took out auto attack which pre playing the game i thought was a good thing but with some classes you just end up spamming an ability in place of auto attack, in particular at lower levels, you are forced to use only 1 type of weapon for each class, they even put in vibroswords and staffs but make it impossible to use said weapons to due to class mechanics.

Far too many abilitys take far too long to "charge up" ie when you press the button you have to wait for the animation to fully trigger for it to damage, which in alot of cases leaves silly results ie you press smash on a warrior and then 5 mobs come into range, the animation finally finishs and only 3 of the 8 mobs near you get damaged.

The game isn't "smooth" theres lots of rubber banding.

Not enough world immertia, ie all the flash points are all based from the fleet which is just boring, makes the game feel small, despite the awesome looks and designs of some of them.

Some class's designed around short duration buffs and dots, but not given any way to track those things ie timer bars etc.

Aesthetically, your forced into certain looks despite people crying out about how they don't want to it to be like that, ie can't choose your style of light saber - single, double or dual wield, all the skirts sith assassins have to wear, the lack of cool helms that interact with hooded chests.

Character customisations have some awesome features, and a ton more than are jus stupid, all male hair models suck, all facial hair models suck and not just because of the blocky detail, lack of being able to adjust hair cut is rather irritating too, tho not game breaking obv.

Theres a lack of overall common sense, lessons other mmo's learnt and corrected years ago were in the game at launch and still haven't been addressed ie, you have to wait till level 25, 50% of the way through the game, to get your first mount, which is beyond idiotic and almosts ruins the awesomeness of levelling, there is no logical reason for it and to top it off said mount upon finally getting it blows up everytime you go near any mobs making it near useless when trying to move quickly from place to place with mobs around.

The game is at risk of dying yet they refuse to listen to the pleas from players to lower the absurdly high respect cost and cost of swapping in and out mods so you can change your equipments looks when you feel like it with it bankrupting you.

If i had to sum it up it would be "A single player MMO made by people who had no experience and didn't even try to educate themselves in the MMO area" which is a shame because i wanted to love the game, so so much, they should of just made a voice-overred starwars wow clone with good graphics, it would of been so much better =/ People would of played it purely because it was star wars and not a sword and sorcery style game regardless of whether it was or wasnt better than wow or any other mmos out there.