And where are the "pioneers" now? ... I'm sorry to keep laughing at your posts, DaHarder, but really .... any sentence that contains Zune, marketplace, and on-line music store at the same time surely must be damaging to your credibility ... or what ever is left of it ... and to think ... you keep repeating it, every chance you get.

"Microsoft announced three new Zune models early last month, and the revamped devices are set to hit retailers tomorrow, November 13, along with revamped Zune software, a new social Web site for Zune owners, and the option to buy a "Zune Original" with laser-etched designs and custom text right on the case—and Zune Originals are free, at least for a limited time."

I'd be glad to. You're quote was: "All I said was, 1 million users isn't that impressive when you look at the fact that iTunes has 160 million users". To make it not that impressive one would have to assume that the one million downloads would remain static when, of course, anyone who was trying to be entirely accurate or truthful would know that that's not the case. To put it simply ... you left out the fact that the million downloads took place in 48 hours .... just so you could seemingly "back up " your opinion.

Like I have said, if you look at the raw numbers, then yes, it could seem impressive. 1 million users in 24 hours is high, but the fact that you want to ignore is, as a percentage of iTunes users, it is low.

Quote:

Originally Posted by newbee

That's just as untruthful as if I said: One million downloads in 2 days, hell, that means Ping will have over 180 million users in 1 year.

That's a pretty big assumption, there are a number of iTunes users that are not running iTunes 9, let alone going to upgrade to 10.

Quote:

Originally Posted by newbee

The point is simply this: The omission of truth is the same as lying, IMHO. Does the phrase .... "The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth" hold any meaning for you?

Isn't that a UK phrase? We don't say that saying in this country, so no, it doesn't really hold any meaning to me.

Huh? Their event is the event. A press release was given 2 days after the September 1st event. Did I miss something? :scratching head:

Quote:

The Cupertino, Calif., company issued a press release to announce the good news. "One-third of the people who have downloaded iTunes 10 have joined Ping," said Eddy Cue, Apple's vice president of Internet Services. Cue expects the service to continue growing in coming weeks as more people download iTunes 10.

Huh? Their event is the event. A press release is given 2 days after the September 1st event. Did I miss something? :scratching head:

I thought you were referring to the event they held, not some press release. I don't sit around waiting on Apple to make an annoucement about something, so I didn't know they make a "press release"

Ok, since it was a press release, press releases are a marketing tool, you use numbers that make you look good, you don't use numbers that make you look bad. For this example, this is why they used the 1 million number, and not 0.6% of our users. Now since you are the big man always going on about comprehension, do you understand this?

Quote:

Originally Posted by matrix07

Like I said... about your reading comprehension.

Nothing wrong with my comprehension, it is just your writing that could be improved.

I thought you were referring to the event they held, not some press release. I don't sit around waiting on Apple to make an annoucement about something, so I didn't know they make a "press release"

No, you don't and you shouldn't. But then again you came to comment on the topic about the press release by Apple...

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfanning

Ok, since it was a press release, press releases are a marketing tool, you use numbers that make you look good, you don't use numbers that make you look bad. For this example, this is why they used the 1 million number, and not 0.6% of our users. Now since you are the big man always going on about comprehension, do you understand this?

You're welcomed to grasp any straw you found.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfanning

Nothing wrong with my comprehension, it is just your writing that could be improved.

I thought you were referring to the event they held, not some press release. I don't sit around waiting on Apple to make an annoucement about something, so I didn't know they make a "press release"

The thread is about the press release. It's in the first post. So it seems like you're really going out of your way to disputatious.

Quote:

Ok, since it was a press release, press releases are a marketing tool, you use numbers that make you look good, you don't use numbers that make you look bad. For this example, this is why they used the 1 million number, and not 0.6% of our users. Now since you are the big man always going on about comprehension, do you understand this?

Apple announced that it pulled a million users in 48 hours, which is pretty good for a new service. That's a bone standard move, any business would have done exactly that.

The metric of ".6% of total users" is entirely yours, I guess cause it bugs you that Apple might do well? The idea that Apple, or anyone, would ever couch sales in those terms is absurd. The idea that they only did so for "marketing" reasons because of a "press release" (as opposed to what? Financial reporting where companies strive to find the worst possible context within which to describe their business? Maybe Apple should start reporting iPad sales a percentage of the total population of earth?) is insulting to the intelligence of every person on these boards. So again, it seems like you're really reaching just to have something to be negative about.

They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.

That's Nice... but I still prefer the ZUNE Marketplace's social networking implementation better at this point, if for no other reason than Apple's iTunes Store model is not well set up to support the kind of true music sharing/socializing system that the ZUNE Marketplace currently utilizes.

It appears that you're unaware that with the Zune Pass the subscriber is afforded 10 songs a month to keep forever (in non-DRM/MP3 format) for their US 14.99 monthly free.

The remaining million + songs are free to use as long as the subscription remains current (effectively reducing the cost of 'all you can download' subscription 256kbs + songs to US 4.99).

Maybe someday Apple will see fit to 'invent' an iPass (or some other Zune Pass competitor) for the iTunes store...

Who Knows

You sir, have utterly missed the point. The Zune and M$ lost the digital music war a long time ago. For all your criticism of the iTunes pay per song approach, it's the most successful digital store in the world--by far.

The thing is that you ignore reality. If there was a large demand for a subscription model, that is what Apple would have gone with. They found what most of us already know: On the whole, people want to own their music.
You may think that Zune model is great, but apparently most of the world doesn't.

I can only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look good either.

I think it behooves everyone on all sides of this discussion to make sure to at least try to know the facts they put forth rather than just throw them in the ring. Double checking using the internet is a good way to do so, it often only takes a couple minutes to verify many facts.

Thanks. This is exactly what Jeff should be doing in discussions. Please crack the whip on these guys who use conjecture in situations where facts are available.

No, it's not that. Opinions (and choices) are different from facts. There sets of facts that some people from all sides have gotten wrong. What I'm saying is that there are several people here from all sides, I am including DaHarder, and including some of his detractors too, that should all try to get their facts right before forming an opinion about it, or using them in an argument.
.

Like I have said, if you look at the raw numbers, then yes, it could seem impressive. 1 million users in 24 hours is high, but the fact that you want to ignore is, as a percentage of iTunes users, it is low.

And the fact that you want to ignore is: It's a 2 day timeframe in a application that, in all likelyhood, will have a life span of years .... which shoots your opinion all to hell ... but then, that's why you ignore it, isn't it. (see ... lying by omission)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfanning

That's a pretty big assumption, there are a number of iTunes users that are not running iTunes 9, let alone going to upgrade to 10.

My post said: That's just as untruthful as if I said: One million downloads in 2 days, hell, that means Ping will have over 180 million users in 1 year. ..... AS IF I SAID is not an assumption.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfanning

Isn't that a UK phrase? We don't say that saying in this country, so no, it doesn't really hold any meaning to me.

And you're wrong again ... what a surprise! I'll give you the url as well as the text to make it easy for you to understand ... you seem to have a comprehension problem ... at least , I hope that's what it is because, you know what they say ..... the only thing more pathetic than someone who cannot understand is ... someone who won't.

Legally Deposition can be defined as out of court recorded sworn testimony of a witness before the trial and without a judge for discovery purposes, which can also be used in the court. The witness is put under the oath and both lawyers from each party records the questions and answers. Thus, if the witness is not present during the trial, his deposition can be used for testimony. In a way, deposition can be described as discovery purpose (fact-finding) or part of the pre-trial discovery process. The process of Deposition can be summed up as follows:

The witness sworn in or take an oath to speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

The deposition can me recorded before any chancellor, justice, or judge of a supreme or superior court, mayor, or chief magistrate of a city, or judge of a county court or court of common pleas of any of the United States, not being of counsel or attorney to either of the parties, or interested in the event of the cause.

Too bad that "many, many posters" aren't aren't enough to lift Zune out of the basement in sales.

Do you understand how few people post here, compared to number of people who buy consumer electronics?

And the statement wasn't that many posters were inclined to buy a Zune, but rather, that many posters were interested in discussing it.

Me, personally, I wouldn't buy a Zune. Or an iPod. But I found many of the other posters comments about the Zune to be quite interesting, especially in regard to the advantages and disadvantages of Zune compared to Apple's stuff.

Maybe I should just ignore more of these types of responses. I really try to just let the nasty ones go, but the ones which respond with nonsense are harder for me.

In comparison to the iPodwhich has sold more than 100 million units since its launch in 2001the Zune has yet to make a dent in the digital music marketplace, with sales of the original 30 GB unit estimated to be near 1.2 milion units. But Microsoft has always said its in the portable media player business for the long haul, and the new Zune models and features may (incrementally) win it some fans.

And while Apple is haulin' ass .... MS is still totin' that heavy load ... tell me, are they out of the basement yet with that whole "new social Web site for Zune owners" thingy yet .... no? ... thought so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHarder

[
Note: Knowledge Is Power

So why don't you go and get some .... oh, I forgot your a retired USAF aerospace/structural engineer .... wtf .... I guess they don't make USAF aerospace/structural engineers like they used to.

Apple, bigger than Google, √ ..... bigger than Microsoft, √ The universe is unfolding as it should. Thanks, Apple.

And the fact that you want to ignore is: It's a 2 day timeframe in a application that, in all likelyhood, will have a life span of years .... which shoots your opinion all to hell ... but then, that's why you ignore it, isn't it. (see ... lying by omission)

I haven't ignored that, I think you will find that several times now I have said if you look at that 1 million figure it looks quite impressive, but again, you seem to ignore this. I understand what you are saying, you are ignoring what I am saying, if you don't want to, or don't have the ability of understanding what I am saying, then stop commenting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by matrix07

And you're wrong again ... what a surprise! I'll give you the url as well as the text to make it easy for you to understand ... you seem to have a comprehension problem ... at least , I hope that's what it is because, you know what they say ..... the only thing more pathetic than someone who cannot understand is ... someone who won't.

Actually, if you do a search on that phrase, you will find it is used in the UK as well. In saying that, I neither live in the USA, or the UK. So as I correctly said, that phrase has no importance to me at all. And that fact you provided me with a US link for a comment I said isn't relevant in the country I live in shows you don't understand things, or don't want to understand things.

In comparison to the iPodwhich has sold more than 100 million units since its launch in 2001the Zune has yet to make a dent in the digital music marketplace, with sales of the original 30 GB unit estimated to be near 1.2 milion units. But Microsoft has always said its in the portable media player business for the long haul, and the new Zune models and features may (incrementally) win it some fans.

And while Apple is haulin' ass .... MS is still totin' that heavy load ... tell me, are they out of the basement yet with that whole "new social Web site for Zune owners" thingy yet .... no? ... thought so.

So why don't you go and get some .... oh, I forgot your a retired USAF aerospace/structural engineer .... wtf .... I guess they don't make USAF aerospace/structural engineers like they used to.

Surely you must be in some facet of the Canadian farming industry because your ability to build STRAWMEN (albeit poorly constructed ones) is without peer.

Note: The link was posted in refutation of your asinine claim that ZUNE was not a 'pioneer' in the integration of music media and social networking, as proven by the F A C T that said feature has been an integral part of the Zune ecosystem since 2007, not any ridiculously tired Argumentum Ad Populum/Bandwagon Fallacy based upon some rabid fanaticism.

No, I commented on an article titled "Ping draws over 1 million users in the first 48 hours", then I commented on some poor user of numbers.

Yes, we all know now that you didn't read the topic before commenting, like I suspected from the beginning. Thank you for confirming. Wouldn't want to waste your time to post negative comments, would you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfanning

I'm not grasping at any straws, maybe you want to move away from the Apple PR machine and think for yourself before commenting.

That is really rich coming from someone who don't even understand the topic fully before commenting.