Time transcripts of cherie
[00:00:00:00] [ Interviewer: ] Okay. So, can you state your name and the date?
[00:00:03:14] [ Shako: ] Cherie Shanko, May 21, 2012. [Interviewer:] Okay, thank you.
[00:00:07:29] So, what words do you use to describe your identity in terms of gender?
[00:00:13:08] [ Shanko: ] Um, I use "female," "girl." Not
[00:00:18:17] "woman," specifically, 'cause I find that awkward in terms of words
[00:00:23:11] to use. But, um, like, "girl" or "lady." Yeah.
[00:00:28:00] [ Interviewer: ] Do you have a reason why you've...
[00:00:30:19] why you feel the word "woman" is awkward, or has it just been
[00:00:34:06] something that you've felt, or... [ Shanko: ] I've I think, to me, a lot
[00:00:37:24] of people put it as, like, a "strong" thing, but I always take it as,
[00:00:42:13] like, "woman," like it's... Because when I refer to people...
[00:00:47:18] as "my woman," like, "my property," like it's "MY thing," and "lady,"
[00:00:51:27] is so like... proper, and like
[00:00:55:08] I just like it better, I just don't like the word "woman."
[00:00:58:10] [ Interviewer: ] So, what words do you use to describe your identity
[00:01:03:00] in terms of your sexuality? [ Shanko: ] Most of the time, I just use "lesbian,"
[00:01:08:01] because that is...
[00:01:11:06] that's how I identify, but a lot of people, because I used to date boys,
[00:01:15:13] so they're like, but what about this? What about this?
[00:01:18:11] So I end up caving in to "queer" a lot, because I
[00:01:23:18] don't like boys, but I did, and so it's easier to just say
[00:01:27:24] "queer!"
[00:01:29:22] [ Interviewer: ] So, you say "caving in to queer," do you like the word
[00:01:32:28] "queer," or do you like the word "lesbian" better and then you feel like
[00:01:37:20] "queer" fits but you don't like the word, or... Why do you say "caving in to queer?"
[00:01:41:20] [ Shanko: ] Um, I think "queer" is an excellent word, I think it encases
[00:01:44:16] everything and it's all-inclusive, so regardless of who I'm talking
[00:01:48:10] to, you know, you know what queer is, it's like, not ordinary, not
[00:01:52:24] the same, and... like, the word "lesbian" is still kind of like a dirty
[00:01:57:21] word, like "gay," everybody hears the word "gay," you know, it's
[00:02:00:16] common in our language, but "lesbian," not so much. But, um, I like it 'cause
[00:02:07:04] I don't like guys, so just to say I'm a lesbian with people in
[00:02:12:08] the LGBT community, it's easier to say, like,
[00:02:15:24] "I'm a lesbian, and this is how I fit into this," versus, "I'm
[00:02:20:12] queer," which goes to like, the people outside the LGBT
[00:02:23:25] who are like, "But you did this." And so...
[00:02:28:05] It makes it separated. [ Interviewer: ] Okay so... so what experiences
[00:02:31:06] have you had with describing your identity to other people who
[00:02:34:23] identify as LGBTQ? [ Shanko: ] Over the summer, I
[00:02:39:12] I went to... They have a huge garage sale in Columbus
[00:02:43:22] I went to, and I ended up in Goodale Park. And I took a nap on
[00:02:47:29] one of the benches and my friend came, and was like, "Hey, you
[00:02:50:18] wanna join our picnic?" And I was like, "I would love to." Because
[00:02:53:25] I was pretty hungry. And um, my friend is a transgendered woman,
[00:02:58:14] so I was like, "All right, well, let's go," and then it ended up being
[00:03:01:29] a picnic for transgendered individuals. And as soon as I got there,
[00:03:08:01] everybody was like, "So, you're a... You're a handsome
[00:03:12:13] man." I'm like, "I'm not, actually."
[00:03:16:04] And they're like, "So what's your preferred pronoun?" And that was
[00:03:19:02] the first time, really, that like anybody has asked me, like, "What's
[00:03:22:22] your preferred pronoun?" I got to talk about me, and being the
[00:03:27:07] only non-transgender person there. Explaining, like, lesbian
[00:03:32:11] and all that stuff. [ Interviewer: ] So then, have you had people ask
[00:03:36:11] you since what your preferred pronoun is, or was that the only time?
[00:03:39:20] [ Shanko: ] Um... We do, 'cause now, in LGBT First Year Cohort,
[00:03:44:23] we have a transgendered individual
[00:03:48:11] as one of the mentors, and before, like, last year we didn't do that, but
[00:03:52:08] since he came, we have that awareness
[00:03:56:19] and we were able to make that adjustment, which...
[00:04:00:06] is beautiful, because now, like, we include those
[00:04:04:03] [ chuckles ] THOSE people, but, um...
[00:04:06:21] like, it's not excluding anyone in anybody's language. And it
[00:04:12:02] clears things up. Because I felt weird at the picnic
[00:04:16:16] like, do I tell you that I'm really not
[00:04:20:11] transgendered? Or... can I still eat the food if I'm not? So...
[00:04:27:00] [ Interviewer: ] So, what experiences have you had with describing
[00:04:32:10] your identity to people who don't identify as LGBTQ?
[00:04:36:25] [ Shanko: ] It's definitely a little bit more difficult. Especially
[00:04:40:22] coming from, like, a small town, where there's like, no
[00:04:44:20] people who identify as LGBT.
[00:04:47:10] So, to say, like, "I'm gay, I'm lesbian,"
[00:04:52:18] is like... "What are you saying to me?"
[00:04:57:03] Like, "I don't understand it." So, having to
[00:04:59:25] just say, like, "I'm queer." Because "I'm not
[00:05:03:14] straight," is basically what you have to say, instead of like, breaking it
[00:05:08:20] down because people don't have that education, that like, this is
[00:05:11:27] what this is, this is what this is. So you basically have to say, like,
[00:05:14:27] I'm just queer. Like, that's it. [ Interviewer: ] So, here at OSU, have
[00:05:20:13] you had a different experience than back home in your smaller
[00:05:23:14] town? Like, what experiences have you had here at OSU?
[00:05:26:03] [ Shanko: ] Here at OSU... There are so many LGBT-identified
[00:05:33:12] people that I surround myself with
[00:05:36:22] that, like, it's never actually come up outside of that.
[00:05:40:26] 'Cause like, all my friends are gay, all my classes have gay
[00:05:44:21] people in them. I take basketball, everyone's straight, so that's awkward
[00:05:48:26] but nobody talks about it. Like, nobody's like, "your girlfriend, your boyfriend."
[00:05:53:04] And it just never comes up.
[00:05:55:09] So I don't really... [ Interviewer: ] So then, moving back,
[00:06:00:26] just to earlier, how did you come to identify with
[00:06:04:28] those specific words, with, um, with "female" and "girl,"
[00:06:08:27] and then with "lesbian"
[00:06:11:08] and "queer?" [ Shanko: ] How did I come to identify with this?
[00:06:15:09] [ Interviewer: ] Yeah, what was sort of, like, your journey to getting
[00:06:17:10] to those words? [ Shanko: ] I was born female, so,
[00:06:24:20] that was a good starter, but growing up, I was always the tomboy,
[00:06:28:24] and I always had to wear the boy clothes and
[00:06:32:29] play the boy parts, because I have a sister. She always played
[00:06:35:18] the girl parts. So, for a long time, I even questioned
[00:06:40:27] it myself, and I'm like... 'cause I do all these boy things
[00:06:44:28] like, I feel like SO boyish.
[00:06:47:07] And, on top of that, I like girls.
[00:06:52:14] For me, coming to, "What exactly does that mean?" Like,
[00:06:56:28] do I wanna be a boy, or do I just have more masculine
[00:07:01:02] traits and I like girls? And I've decided that
[00:07:04:24] was it, because I would not make a cute boy. [ laughs ]
[00:07:07:20] First and formost, that would not be pretty. But, um...
[00:07:16:12] Train of thought. But too, like, I like the qualities
[00:07:21:00] of being a female, so I just kind of
[00:07:25:02] tossed up boy or these
[00:07:28:22] traits that I really like. And I embrace
[00:07:33:04] being a woman... [ winces ] At times,
[00:07:35:22] but like... I don't know. It's very fluid.
[00:07:41:07] But I definitely identify as lesbian because I like being a girl.
[00:07:45:03] [ Interviewer: ] So, do you feel like you chose one or the other?
[00:07:49:05] Do you feel like you could've gone either way and you sort of
[00:07:51:04] feel more like you like one and so you chose it? Or do feel like it's sort of, like...
[00:07:55:02] [ Shanko: ] Oh, I definitely feel like I chose it. Because I... I really
[00:07:59:16] questioned it for a while. So I... I love
[00:08:03:20] football, and I feel so masuline, like, I feel like a boy, and I was
[00:08:08:15] always considered one of the guys, and then, growing up,
[00:08:12:24] and like, hitting puberty and stuff, I'm like, this is wrong, this is
[00:08:17:04] all weird. And... I was certain, like
[00:08:21:04] this... So my dad always wanted a boy,
[00:08:24:25] he got five girls, and I'm like, "This is what you got. This is the boy."
[00:08:29:11] And...
[00:08:31:29] I just... I really thought about it for a long time
[00:08:37:07] and debated it, but then, when I was gonna, like,
[00:08:41:03] give in to, like, going more towards
[00:08:45:06] "I wanna be a boy," I was like, "But I really like
[00:08:49:13] the parts of me..." Like, I like being treated like a lady. And I like
[00:08:53:05] all of this... you know... feminine things.
[00:08:56:17] It's really, like, split. Like,
[00:09:01:01] what should I do? But I figure...
[00:09:03:09] being defined as a lesbian, I have more flexibility.
[00:09:08:15] Because stereotypically, you expect a more masculine person.
[00:09:13:08] It's what's kinda supposed to be there. So I
[00:09:17:06] I kinda, I play a lesbian really well.
[00:09:19:28] It was definitely a choice. [ Interviewer: ] Okay, cool. Well, thank you very, very much.