Then your comment can be said for everybody whom lives in the UK Islands and not just England. After all our ancestors might come from Africa. That
is where life started after all. So really you are a immigrant yourself.

And since there is white youths taken part in the riots as well. Are they immigrants also?

If you can prove beyond any doubt, that your ancestor links does not go back to either Rome, or Africa then I am validated on my comment.

And I do not mean go back a couple of hundred off years. Go back to when these Islands were first inhabited.

Originally posted by Shamatt
But you sir are denying millions of English people, and that is wrong.

And you sir are denying many more millions of English people their identity. See, when something belongs to everyone then it belongs to no-one. Ethnic
identity is absolutely meaningless if people can choose to adopt it and by allowing people to do so, you are stealing the ancient birthright of tens
of millions of people (in England alone) simply to appease the sensitivities of just a few million. The ethnic English have rights and feelings too
you know. We never exclaimed that we wanted to surrender our identity and become all-inclusive. And I ask you again, why would immigrants want to
identify as ‘English’ anyway? Why is identifying as ‘British’ not good enough?

Originally posted by Shamatt
Take Australia as an example. What would you call a white Australian whos great great grandparents mooved here from Itally? Italian? No - They are
Australian, and everyone would agree with that. So why is it not the same in the UK?

The term ‘Australian’ has no ethnic connotations. It was not named after a specific ethnic group like England was.

Originally posted by Shamatt
What about the English who lived on Blighty's beautifull shores before they arrived?

Many moved to Wales and Cornwall, the rest (who were racially similar) assimilated and forged the new race of people called the ‘English’ along
with the invading tribes. So, they were in fact present at the birth of the English people and, I believe, combined peacefully with the newer tribes.
The key here is that assimilation was complicit, not enforced like it is now.

Originally posted by AnonymousFem
If you can prove beyond any doubt, that your ancestor links does not go back to either Rome, or Africa then I am validated on my comment.

I do not need to prove anything to you, not least something as un-provable as that. You would not ask a Maori to prove their ancestral link to New
Zealand before proclaiming them indigenous. But for some reason, if you’re white European, or worse still – English, you are asked to jump through
hoops of fire to justify your heritage and identity. Would you rather see the original English all-but-wiped-out and the land that was once England
become a predominantly multicultural bizarre populated mostly by people of non-European extraction? Would you like to see England disappear? England
is not just a piece of land, it is a people, a culture, a set of values. Replace the people and you destroy England forever. Still enjoying your time
up there on the moral high-ground, having erased an entire nation from the planet?

The English are re-asserting themselves and their identity all over England. it will become apparent in the coming years, and believe me we're not
looking for your approval. We're not going out without a whimper either. Call whoever you want to 'English' - human words on the matter mean
nothing. Fact is fact whatever you'd prefer to believe.

Then consider how English you might be - perhaps your forefathers came to the UK 5 generations ago? Perhaps youare of Roman decent? Still English.

I am English. I was born there, as were my parents and ther's before them for as many generations as we have been able to trace. But I nor live in
Australia. And when I can I will become a citizen and call myself an Australian. Is that wrong? English is not a race, or a breed. We are not Gods
special people.

you seem to struggle with the concept that british is not the same as english go grab a passport tell me where it says ENGLISH. oh would you
look at that it says BRITISH. fact is you can't become english by moveing here only british. english is historicle like roman the only difference is
we're still here so we still have rights nomatter how much racists dislike that.

gess only brown ethnic groups are allowed to show pride in there heritage

oh and how can we all be immigrants when we have unique haplo groups that pre-dates the romans by 8,000 years....oh we can't

Then consider how English you might be - perhaps your forefathers came to the UK 5 generations ago? Perhaps youare of Roman decent? Still English.

I am English. I was born there, as were my parents and ther's before them for as many generations as we have been able to trace. But I nor live in
Australia. And when I can I will become a citizen and call myself an Australian. Is that wrong? English is not a race, or a breed. We are not Gods
special people.

You preach devision, seperation, difference. Not cool.

take your first two line and apply to yourself. are you going to start calling
yourself by the name the natives call them shelves in oz? no, then why would somebody want to do that in Britain. english IS a breed as you put it
ethnic group as i put it. that 160 iq is not helping your comprehension of whats being said

First time on ATS for a while. Just seen the news and it's going on in Hackney London. News reader saying the Police are sending lots of dogs in. Now
they are saying Birmingham too is under attack from riots! Is this actually organised rather than angry youths? Who the heck is organising this?

I don't think it's overly organised, more rioters realising that the more they spread out, the thinner the police are spread. Rioters in Birmingham
know the focus is on London and police may have been sent from Birmingham to lend support... The more spread out the violence is, the harder it is
for the police to control it.

No they have not, Police are out in force in Birmingham, in riot gear. Shops were advised to shut early. Shoppers were becoming angry over having
been shoved out early. They decided to help themselves.

Looks like a war zone from the Eastern Front in WW2 right now on Sky and BBC. Are these kids....? Nah, it looks very organised. This is managed and
manipulated. By whom? If it spreads from London and Brum to other cities then what? Our military is going to be needed here, but it's busy in foreign
climes, killing Afghans and Libyans. Will it spread to Italy and France etc?

I certainly hope the army isn't needed...not for the sake of the rioters. But the army will bring raised violence in the riots, and if some rioters
decide to fire weapons at the army (who will almost certainly have weapons) we may see firefights in the streets.

Think Northern Ireland. However if it IS more organised than I hope we may have little choice if the rioters can keep it up.

Maybe it's just pure criminality, geezers with mobiles egging on their mates, reportedly gangs going easy on each other and making an alliance to
join in the mayhem. Civilisation seems so fragile right now.

Hey the London Olympics is almost tomorrow, maybe they will switch it to a safe venue?

These kids need educating properly, I always think that every kid should be shipped off to Namibia and taken on a tour of an Informal settlement
outside Windhoek, 99.99999% would never complain about our British standard of living again in their lifetime.

Wow, cars are on fire everywhere in Peckham - hope Del Boy and Rodney are ok

We Northerner's need to be seriously wound up before we take to the streets.

Seriously, people are just so pissed off with the complete lack of regard or interest shown for their cares and concerns as politicians just continue
to do as they wish unopposed and unchallenged whilst using the police as their private enforcers.

Direct action does work but I can't condone the burning and looting of local businesses etc.

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