On the one hand we have the Pulitzer Prize winning journalist Jose Antonio Vargas admitting that he was brought into the US aged 11 without proper documentation.

On the other hand, we have John McCain and a few other Arizona Republicans claiming that wildfires in that state were caused by illegal immigrants. When pushed for evidence, however, they were curiously unwilling to provide it. Questions about how they know illegal immigrants started the fires were replied to with the statement:

While Arizonans continue to face the enormous challenges related to these wildfires, it's unfortunate that some are inserting their political agenda into this tragedy.

While I'm unsure if that statement represents some of the most rank hypocrisy I've seen recently, I do think that Americans should be concerned about immigrants coming over and stealing their Pulitzer Prizes.

Irony, yes. However, McCain's statement was not, as you claim without evidence. He made the comment based on statements by Forest Service and state fire fighting agency officials.

As a point of fact, illegal aliens do start some wildfires, not necessarily intentionally, but because they may wind up living in the woods, having campfires, etc. You also have to understand that conditions out west can be so very, very dry that anything from a random piece of debris hitting a car muffler and flying to lawn mowers to, of course, the old improperly tended campfire can cause a wildfire to start. Of course, there are a few arsonists and other idiots among the illegal workers. However, what this really shows another reason to provide some kind of safe housing for illegal workers.

Those are the people that instantly transforms into Todd and Muffy and get all nautical when anywhere near water and anything that floats on it, such as a canoe. All directions become port or starboard, and the nose upturns at least 30 degrees. Every boat that passes is described in detail as if they have personally driven it, or have any real clue what it is.

Oh...Im sorry....I thought you were asking: "What in the world is an annoying boat person?"

Kind of like how "Those damn rich people aren't paying enough in taxes."

(Even though the bottom 49% pay 0 income taxes.)

(resized by me, but words the same)

Nope, not going to get away with that one. The bottom 49% do not BENEFIT from the taxes any more as much as the wealthy, therefore they should not have to pay as much.

And, the real figure is 43% pay income taxes, not 49%. BUT, when you realize that a number of those are single parents (42.2%), then you also have to realize that they are getting child support upon which taxes very much were paid, so in some ways, it is not much different than the figures for married people where one spouse makes a lot less than the other. In truth, those figures are yet one more reason for changing the child support system (they way money is paid, how it is counted, not that it is paid, of course).

boat people refers mainly to the mass of Vietnamese refugees who fled by boat in the late 70s, I believe.

Iliad wrote:Nighstrike legitimately believes that the left blames the rich for its problems,

You don't think the left blames the rich for its problems? I'm pretty sure that's true. Now, whether or not the rich are to blame for problems regardless of political affiliation is another issue entirely.

Symmetry wrote:On the other hand, we have John McCain and a few other Arizona Republicans claiming that wildfires in that state were caused by illegal immigrants.

I don't much care for McCain, but it's very possible (even likely, IMO) that at least one of the fires was started by illegals. It's a pretty common trick used by illegals in Arizona and Texas to try to distract law enforcement. And one of the Arizona fires started in an area that was off-limits to the general public, because it IS an area heavily traveled by illegals

I'm convinced that John McCain has an unconscious hatred for people that aren't white. The man wants to bomb pretty much every Middle East and North African country that exists including, but not limited to, Iraq, Libya, Iran, Syria, and Egypt.

McCain should have been put to pasture several years ago

On a serious note, I've heard from both left-leaning and right-leaning news sources (radio, so I don't have links) that illegal immigration is one of the most significant issues in Arizona right now. So while it is unfortunate with the blame thing, I can sort of understand the psychology behind the pointing of fingers.

If ya'll really want to understand the problem with illegals, go spend six months or a year on the Arizona or Texas border. It would be interesting to hear some of ya'll's observations after!

On the one hand we have the Pulitzer Prize winning journalist Jose Antonio Vargas admitting that he was brought into the US aged 11 without proper documentation.

Why does where someone is from have anything to do with recognizing talent with an award?

I don't see any connection.

That's great to hear Scotty, to be honest I did kind of have you pegged as one of the people who might be calling for this guy to be deported, or punished. Sometimes you surprise me when the classic liberalism in your libertarianism trumps your conservatism.

It does seem to show that the American Dream Act would probably be a great piece of legislation as a means of recognising people in spite of their origins.

the world is in greater peril from those who tolerate or encourage evil than from those who actually commit it- Albert Einstein

On the one hand we have the Pulitzer Prize winning journalist Jose Antonio Vargas admitting that he was brought into the US aged 11 without proper documentation.

Why does where someone is from have anything to do with recognizing talent with an award?

I don't see any connection.

That's great to hear Scotty, to be honest I did kind of have you pegged as one of the people who might be calling for this guy to be deported, or punished.

and....how do you get that out of me asking what the connection is between talent and what county one is from....???

Just from previous discussions with you. As I said, I was wrong, and it's great to hear that you're on this guys side. Sometimes you come across as just following whatever line the right wing radio-hosts are following that week, and sometimes you surprise me.

the world is in greater peril from those who tolerate or encourage evil than from those who actually commit it- Albert Einstein

On the one hand we have the Pulitzer Prize winning journalist Jose Antonio Vargas admitting that he was brought into the US aged 11 without proper documentation.

On the other hand, we have John McCain and a few other Arizona Republicans claiming that wildfires in that state were caused by illegal immigrants. When pushed for evidence, however, they were curiously unwilling to provide it. Questions about how they know illegal immigrants started the fires were replied to with the statement:

While Arizonans continue to face the enormous challenges related to these wildfires, it's unfortunate that some are inserting their political agenda into this tragedy.

While I'm unsure if that statement represents some of the most rank hypocrisy I've seen recently, I do think that Americans should be concerned about immigrants coming over and stealing their Pulitzer Prizes.

Irony, yes. However, McCain's statement was not, as you claim without evidence. He made the comment based on statements by Forest Service and state fire fighting agency officials.

As a point of fact, illegal aliens do start some wildfires, not necessarily intentionally, but because they may wind up living in the woods, having campfires, etc. You also have to understand that conditions out west can be so very, very dry that anything from a random piece of debris hitting a car muffler and flying to lawn mowers to, of course, the old improperly tended campfire can cause a wildfire to start. Of course, there are a few arsonists and other idiots among the illegal workers. However, what this really shows another reason to provide some kind of safe housing for illegal workers.

I'm sure they do. Just as black people commit murder. What I object to is a major politician saying that it was caused by illegal immigrants before an investigation had been completed, then claiming that he didn't mean anything political by those statements, and accusing opponents of politicising it all.

Now if there was a murder, and a politician went on stage and said that he, or she, had been told that a black person committed that murder, I don't think it would be wholly unreasonable to ask what evidence that politician had for that allegation.

I'm afraid that "I was told by someone important" just doesn't cut it. There's no way to follow up on that. No way to substantiate the accusation. Indeed, follow ups by the media to McCain's claims to the media have, so far as I know, just stated that the issue was under investigation- they don't know who is responsible yet.

He's got a lovely bit of anti-Immigrant rhetoric going on here. If he's wrong, well, he can say that he didn't mean it and all this controversy is because of his irrational opponents seeking to demonise him (as he's doing at the moment). If nobody gets caught, well, the paranoia has been fueled, and that gets some votes for Repubs in Arizona and other border states. If he's right, and an illegal immigrant does get charged and convicted, then he was right from the very start- he always knew it, just couldn't provide evidence at the time and had to conceal the identities of those who told him.

Win-win really.

the world is in greater peril from those who tolerate or encourage evil than from those who actually commit it- Albert Einstein

Well known journalist and immigration activist Jose Antonio Vargas, who also happens to be an illegal alien, was arrested at the Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport for driving without a license.

Hennepin County participates in the Secure Communities program, which allows local law enforcement agencies to cooperate with the federal government in enforcing immigration law by checking arrestees against immigration databases. Immigration and Customs Enforcement could act if the individual is found to be undocumented. Other details about Vargas’ arrest are unknown.

Vargas gained national attention for his June 2011 New York Times essay titled “My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant.” In the essay, he describes what living as an illegal immigrant is like in the United States, though Vargas is an outspoken critic of using the term “illegal immigrant.”

Vargas also appeared on the cover of Time Magazine along with dozens of other illegal aliens. The cover read “We Are Americans — Just Not Legally.“ He publicly ”came out” as an illegal immigrant last year.

Hey Vargas, if you want to be taken seriously in your crusade to ban anything with the word "illegal" in it, maybe you should try to follow at least some of our most basic and fundamental laws, especially when you are an illegal immigrant.

Jose Antonio Vargas, the writer and activist who went public last year with his status as an undocumented immigrant, was arrested for a driving infraction in Minnesota on Friday, but federal immigration authorities did not detain him or take any other action, officials said Saturday.

Vargas, a former Washington Post reporter who revealed his status in The New York Times Magazine and touched off a debate in the journalistic community, was initially pulled over by a state trooper for driving while wearing head phones, Eric Roeske, public information officer for the Minnesota state patrol, told POLITICO.

So, he was driving with no license, no insurance, while wearing headphones? I don't think there is anything that screams more loudly "I don't give a shit about your laws or anyone on your roads!!!!!!!!"

This is a perfect example of someone who needs to get kicked the F outta here

Last edited by Phatscotty on Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:27 am, edited 1 time in total.