<quoted text>All things that you have mentioned still brings me to my experienced conclusion that I do NOT trust the government to draw a bath./QUOTE]

How do you feel about our military? Do you trust that branch of our government?(They are the ones with nuclear weapons.)

[QUOTE who="Pops"]<quote d text>Look at so called Social Security, USPS, Medicaid, Medicare, highway infrastructure, the IRS, the National Park Service Etc Etc.

Well, as an old fart, I think Social Security is one of the best things that ever happened. Working people no longer have to descend in to crushing poverty, just because they get old.

And I like Medicaid & Medicare, too. Do you really not see the value? Maybe you've been very healthy, so far. Lucky you.

You have problems with Ike's Interstate Highway System??? You don't think our roads are vital to our economic health?

And I like the National Parks. I think it's a wonderful idea to try to preserve a few natural spaces.

But, maybe you're right. When old people get sick, let them die. Privatize the Interstate System, and have tolls every half mile or so. Tear down the National Parks, and put up trailer parks instead.

Better?

Pops wrote:

<quoted text>I have NO problem with some of the Affordable Health Care issues such as doing away with pre-existing conditions, insurance across state lines, the youth being on a parents policy until age 26...

They are all great ideas for our society that never happened with our "free market" insurance system. But isn't that socialist talk???

<quoted text>Well, as an old fart, I think Social Security is one of the best things that ever happened. Working people no longer have to descend in to crushing poverty, just because they get old.And I like Medicaid & Medicare, too. Do you really not see the value? Maybe you've been very healthy, so far. Lucky you.You have problems with Ike's Interstate Highway System??? You don't think our roads are vital to our economic health?And I like the National Parks. I think it's a wonderful idea to try to preserve a few natural spaces.But, maybe you're right. When old people get sick, let them die. Privatize the Interstate System, and have tolls every half mile or so. Tear down the National Parks, and put up trailer parks instead.Better?<quoted text>They are all great ideas for our society that never happened with our "free market" insurance system. But isn't that socialist talk???

Of course you think SS is one of the best things that ever happened. You get much more back than you paid in. That's why the system is going broke. Then there is Medicaid speaking of broke. It's a system that is breaking states; one of the largest expenditures causing many to be in red ink.

Medicare? Yet another program that costs more than we can afford. And yet another program that you will likely get back much more than you paid in. For crying out loud, a major surgery can cost around $50,000. That's only one procedure. How many procedures does a retired person have before they pass away at the average age of 78 years old?

<quoted text>So what you Tea Bagger rightwingers are all saying is..."The government is afraid of the guns people have because they have to have control of the people at all times. Once you take away the guns, you can do anything to the people. You give them an inch and they take a mile. I believe we are slowly turning into a socialist government. The government is continually growing bigger and more powerful and the people need to prepare to defend themselves against government control"A direct quote from child murderer and domestic terrorist, Timothy McVeigh.Oopsie. Somebody's agenda is sick and twisted.

"To disarm the people is the most effectual way to enslave them."- George Mason

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe."- Noah Webster

"A government resting on the minority is an aristocracy, not a Republic, and could not be safe with a numerical and physical force against it, without a standing army, an enslaved press and a disarmed populace."- James Madison

"Americans have the right and advantage of being armed, unlike the people of other countries, whose leaders are afraid to trust them with arms."- James Madison

<quoted text>Of course you think SS is one of the best things that ever happened. You get much more back than you paid in. That's why the system is going broke. Then there is Medicaid speaking of broke. It's a system that is breaking states; one of the largest expenditures causing many to be in red ink.Medicare? Yet another program that costs more than we can afford. And yet another program that you will likely get back much more than you paid in. For crying out loud, a major surgery can cost around $50,000. That's only one procedure. How many procedures does a retired person have before they pass away at the average age of 78 years old?

Then turn it down and die alone, which you probably are.You can go out with Sara screaming "DEATH PANELS".

<quoted text>More vote buying, it's just the uninformed voter fails to understand this.Now why don't you show me where in the US Constitution the requirement is for the federal government to be involved in local and state criminal cases? I read the Constitution plenty of times, I've never seen this provision.Much like hate crime laws that provide harsher sentencing for victims that are potential Democrat voters, this law does almost the exact same thing.Our local and state courts can take care of themselves thank you. Some of us just happen to believe that the federal government need not control every aspect of our lives.An abortion is not the most important, life altering, heart wrenching decision a patient can face; a heart transplant or kidney transplant is."If you want to keep your insurance plan--you can." Proven to be utter bull ship because most people get their coverage through their employer. Employers are dropping their coverage for their employees like flies. This is the first time in American history where people are "taxed" by the federal government for not buying something--especially something they don't even want.Maybe when the Republicans regain power, they can tax those people who don't own firearms, or those who don't have X amount of their income in investments. How about those who don't contribute to donations to charity or religion? Let's tax all people who don't comply to a political agenda based on who is in power at the time!

You've never had to see someone go through a life saving abortion evidently. It's not your body or your life, keep your nose where it belongs and let the woman and her doctor make that decision. Yes it is a heart wrenching decision and stays with them the rest of their lives.

<quoted text>Well, as an old fart, I think Social Security is one of the best things that ever happened. Working people no longer have to descend in to crushing poverty, just because they get old.And I like Medicaid & Medicare, too. Do you really not see the value? Maybe you've been very healthy, so far. Lucky you.You have problems with Ike's Interstate Highway System??? You don't think our roads are vital to our economic health?And I like the National Parks. I think it's a wonderful idea to try to preserve a few natural spaces.But, maybe you're right. When old people get sick, let them die. Privatize the Interstate System, and have tolls every half mile or so. Tear down the National Parks, and put up trailer parks instead.Better?<quoted text>They are all great ideas for our society that never happened with our "free market" insurance system. But isn't that socialist talk???

This may surprise you but I agree to the need & benefit of ALL of these programs. I didn't once say that I was against any of them. It is the government wasteful & inefficient control such as the commonly known fact that I.O.U.'s literally exist for money borrowed from the SS fund to 'balance' the budget in the past & it's still growing on steroids. Then appropriate 'cost of living adjustments' are reduced in subsequent years. We all also know that IF all of what we, as individuals, invested our life time 'contributions', that we could retire with greater amounts. I find it difficult to trust the many representatives that exempt themselves from Affordable Health Care, Social Security, & more. The programs themselves are fine, it's the administration there-of that bothers me greatly.

<quoted text>I think being a compulsive liar is a little more shrink worthy than the fact that I busted you at it. Now will your insurance pay for that or will you be leaning on one of those "Socialist" programs to pay your bills?

You are an interesting character. You have about 4 'points' that you put into rotation in your posts. Someone is a liar, or a racist, or you 'busted them' or they are a Tea Bagger. Can you come up with anything of substance? Here you suggest that I am leaning on 'Socialist' programs & in post #20726, Old Guy seems to think that I am dogging the programs. Interesting....

<quoted text>This may surprise you but I agree to the need & benefit of ALL of these programs. I didn't once say that I was against any of them. It is the government wasteful & inefficient control such as the commonly known fact that I.O.U.'s literally exist for money borrowed from the SS fund to 'balance' the budget in the past & it's still growing on steroids. Then appropriate 'cost of living adjustments' are reduced in subsequent years.We all also know that IF all of what we, as individuals, invested our life time 'contributions', that we could retire with greater amounts.I find it difficult to trust the many representatives that exempt themselves from Affordable Health Care, Social Security, & more.The programs themselves are fine, it's the administration there-of that bothers me greatly.

These programs are not fine because they are administered by our federal government. Retirement plans, healthcare plans, poverty plans are not what the federal government is supposed to do. States doing these kinds of things? Different story. Any state is allowed (if permissible by their state Constitution) to provide any kind of benevolence they desire.

Well..... we have all these wonderful safety nets now, and what do we have to show for it? Serious debt, less responsible people, and obligation that we can't afford.

The fix? Some say make people work later and not retire until the age of 67 or more. This brilliant idea is usually promoted by suit and ties sitting behind a microphone at a radio station or in front of a television camera.

The problem is that some jobs can't be worked safely up to that age. Are we to expect roofers to carry shingles two or more stories high up a ladder at that age? What about bricklayers? How about laborers that have to carry that cement, bricks and blocks to the work site? The older you get, the tougher it is to take those heavy garbage cans to the curb. Imagine emptying those garbage cans into a garbage truck for a living at the age of 66.

Heck, I'll even use my career as an example. Do you want to be in the car in front of me when I'm piloting a 70,000 lbs tractor-tralier in the rain or snow at the age of 67 and we come to a sudden stop?

<quoted text>"To disarm the people is the most effectual way to enslave them."- George Mason"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe."- Noah Webster"A government resting on the minority is an aristocracy, not a Republic, and could not be safe with a numerical and physical force against it, without a standing army, an enslaved press and a disarmed populace."- James Madison"Americans have the right and advantage of being armed, unlike the people of other countries, whose leaders are afraid to trust them with arms."- James MadisonA lot of real sickos in the world.

You really should read up a little more. considering you started with George Mason being a symbol for all you stand for as a "Constitutionalist". He's the slave owner who refused to sign the Constitution.(insert silly spring noise sound effect here-B-o-o-I-I-I-I-I-n-g)

I'm sure he pictured 16 year old urban youth owning AK-47s with 50 round clips when he made this statement though...right?

Also, none of the people you named here mention their vision of our country turning into an evil Socialist tyranny.

Now let's move on to Noah Webster. Another person you listed as a shining example of what you stand for. He was a Federalist who loved big banks, big government and keeping strong ties to Great Britain.

That is the opposite of what you and the Tea Party hero, Timothy McVeigh believe in. So...

<quoted text>You really should read up a little more. considering you started with George Mason being a symbol for all you stand for as a "Constitutionalist". He's the slave owner who refused to sign the Constitution.(insert silly spring noise sound effect here-B-o-o-I-I-I-I-I-n-g)I'm sure he pictured 16 year old urban youth owning AK-47s with 50 round clips when he made this statement though...right?Also, none of the people you named here mention their vision of our country turning into an evil Socialist tyranny.You know, like how you and Timothy McVeigh do.

You really believe that our founders had no vision of advanced weaponry in the future? They thought that muskets and single action revolvers would be the apex of our creation?

And here we once again have that worn out liberal "They owned slaves" routine that you think somehow discounts or eliminates any credibility our founders had.

<quoted text>You really believe that our founders had no vision of advanced weaponry in the future? They thought that muskets and single action revolvers would be the apex of our creation?And here we once again have that worn out liberal "They owned slaves" routine that you think somehow discounts or eliminates any credibility our founders had.

They also didn't know we were going to have the "A" bomb or jet planes. So what does that have to do with the price of milk?get a life people and vote the people out of office that are taking this country down. Makes no difference what party they belong to. The people need to tke this country back.

<quoted text>We all also know that IF all of what we, as individuals, invested our life time 'contributions', that we could retire with greater amounts.

I have a lot of younger friends that would love to have a "defined benefit" retirement plan, instead of their "defined contribution" plans (where they get to invest the money, and hope for the best.) The stock market has long flat spells. If your timing is bad, your retirement nest egg is toast. Same for other investments.

Pops wrote:

<quoted text>I find it difficult to trust the many representatives that exempt themselves from Affordable Health Care, Social Security, & more.

Your facts are wrong. Congress and their staff are all included in Obamacare (thanks to the Grassley amendment.) And all federal workers hired since 1984 are covered by (and contribute to) Social Security.

<quoted text>I have a lot of younger friends that would love to have a "defined benefit" retirement plan, instead of their "defined contribution" plans (where they get to invest the money, and hope for the best.) The stock market has long flat spells. If your timing is bad, your retirement nest egg is toast. Same for other investments.<quoted text>Your facts are wrong. Congress and their staff are all included in Obamacare (thanks to the Grassley amendment.) And all federal workers hired since 1984 are covered by (and contribute to) Social Security.http://www.newrepublic.com/article/114284/con...http://work.chron.com/government-employees-so...

Informative. I ck printed news, TV/radio news & obviously internet news but some how missed that. Now they need the same pension plans. I still am the biggest cynic about trusting them to run a bath. What about the Brent Spence bridge? Now it is supposedly an 'earmark' to use tax dollars to build a new bridge! What the bleep are highway & fuel taxes for? Building rabbit cages? Something is messed up. The bridge used to have a break down lane but they converted it for traffic in the 70's.

<quoted text>Informative. I ck printed news, TV/radio news & obviously internet news but some how missed that.Now they need the same pension plans.I still am the biggest cynic about trusting them to run a bath.What about the Brent Spence bridge? Now it is supposedly an 'earmark' to use tax dollars to build a new bridge! What the bleep are highway & fuel taxes for? Building rabbit cages? Something is messed up. The bridge used to have a break down lane but they converted it for traffic in the 70's.

Not too much different here. Our main artery going into downtown Cleveland is a bridge that is so bad trucks have to detour to get into or across town. The bridge isn't strong enough to safely allow trucks to cross and the detour sucks in rush hour traffic.

We didn't get much help from the feds and it's a good thing we have Kasich as a Governor who managed to find a way to fund the new bridge project.

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