encore and classics stuff

The wings I might consider as well. The head? Uh, not unless I was going to commit the funds to get ALL the other upgrades they're planning. It doesn't much make sense to have a $40 rotatable head unless I'm concerned about the posability of the rest of the toy. Also, I would have serious concerns about the ability to create such parts for such a heavy toy as Predaking is. It's got enough floppiness as it is, even with its limited movements. Now, their upgrades to Devastator are a different story as that is an almost entirely plastic toy, and the upgrades don't diminish any level of stability it has.

As it is, Predaking aside, I really wish that Tomy could get their hands on a Shockwave mold the way they have with Skylynx and Omega Surpreme, since supposedly all three were created by the same company. Seriously, how incredible would it be if Tomy managed that feat? I do understand that we will never see a Roadbuster or Whirl re-release, not even with the Deluxe Insecticons. It is a shame on all these fronts, but it seems very much within the realm of possibility to do it with Shockwave, unless I am very much mistaken in the originators of the mold...

Sanjeev Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
<snip>
> thomas, there definitely were tons of other
> Diaclone toys, but they were only taking the Car
> Robots, Dinosaur Robots, and other "realistic"
> things. We weren't about to see Warudaros, Big
> Powered, and Walk Insectors in the TF line.
>
Of course, but they still skipped a few toys they could have released:

Ah, that jet/heli triple-changer's new to me. Very nice. And I agree that stuff like the Key Robo and Scope Man definitely should've been brought over as well (afterall, they DID bring over Reflector and Perceptor).

But the other Car Robots you mentioned were already brought over in other color schemes. I'm not trying to hate on repaints, but they've been done. Oh, and Tipper Gore woulda buried Hasbro if they brought over more Gun Robos! :P

Shockwave was made by a different company than omega supreme and skylinks, the names sound similar so people always get them confused. And every time that happens i'm compelled to say something. Probably because I'm the only one who gives a shit.

shockwave - toyco
omega supreme and skylinks - toybox

The chinese company that's been doing the G1 KO's has done shockwave in a couple different color variations.

Sanjeev Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I guess the bottom line in my mind is
> that--regardless of the reasons--the toyline
> evolved from "robots in disguise" (clunky robots
> that change into extremely realistic real-world
> vehicles) to "robots changing into all sorts of
> weird shit". With that shift, the visual aesthetic
> of subdued, more harmonious color combinations to
> complement the realistic vehicles also changed to
> incorporate louder, high-contrast color
> combinations to go with the crazy geometry in the
> new toys.
>
Yup, exactly, and I'm sure it's also years of focus-groups telling companies that kids like bright stuff. It's lousy in certain cases, like with the old Batman: The Animated Series figures. That Combat Belt Batman figure from the first year was the perfect representation, and then you started getting Starburst variant Batmans in subsequent lines because they would stand out on the shelves.

> They're different aesthetics and I don't wanna say
> one is better than the other since I feel both are
> "appropriate" given the different formats of the
> two eras of toys.
>
Yeah, it's like the divide between 70s super robots and 80s real mecha.
>
> Did y'all see the new CrazyDevy wing extensions? I
> dunno how I feel about these things... New head
> and wings? That's like putting a super-realistic
> SoC-like Mazinger head on an original Jumbo
> Machinder body. Why? Shit was fine to begin with.
>
I recently saw a Youtube review of the Devastator set, and it made me almost want to buy a Devastator just to put those mods in. What held me back is what you're saying, that putting 21st-century articulation/design sensibility onto a 20th century toy messes up what made the original figure so awesome (chunkiness = soul). It becomes this Frankensteinian hodgepodge. I'd rather have something entirely new, from the ground up.

Haha...only when it comes to pre-movie G1 TFs versus post-movie G1 TFs, it seems to be a regression, not an evolution! :P

> I recently saw a Youtube review of the Devastator
> set, and it made me almost want to buy a
> Devastator just to put those mods in. What held me
> back is what you're saying, that putting
> 21st-century articulation/design sensibility onto
> a 20th century toy messes up what made the
> original figure so awesome (chunkiness = soul). It
> becomes this Frankensteinian hodgepodge. I'd
> rather have something entirely new, from the
> ground up.

Y'know...I dunno why, but I guess it just never occurred to me to watch some youtube reviews of these things. So...I just went and watched Optibotimus' two reviews of the Crazy Devy upgrade sets. I kinda wanna stab my eyes out. Thanks for that, Chieh.

Anyway, I totally agree with your assessment. I mean, they sorta seem cool on the surface...but it's just so wrong, y'know? First of all, the LED gimmick in the head's nice...but the damn thing looks dumb as hell, cartoon accuracy be damned. The rest is just pure Frankenstein. Just look at the legs. Fucking thing can barely stand up. The feet were designed to be static and perpendicular to the ground...adding the hips and knees just makes him topple over. Terrible.

I might consider an articulated hand/giant sword set for Predaking...since that seems inevitable at this point. But other than that, I'm good.

Oh...and by the way, Chieh, you're nuts: Snapdragon's robot mode is WAY better than Apeface's! Forgot to mention that earlier! :P

The CrazyDevy thing would be better if it wasn't so half-assed. I'm all for a better version of the original Devastator because the original was total ass when combined but this is just wishful thinking. It's like someone took Fansproject and some customizer's ideas and combined the worst aspects of both.

That thing is awful, but it was my first diaclone toy as a kid. Seeing all those transformers with different names and colors in the catalog really freaked me out. I think that's what started this whole mess.

thomas Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> fujikuro Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Hate to say it, but I can see why they skipped
> > that particular triple-changer.
>
> Instead, we got Broadside. Who is arguably worse
> (the best of his modes is the aircraft carrier,
> and that isn't exactly brilliant).

I would agree to some extent. The only thing is, Broadside doesn't have a propeller sticking out of his chest. And that is kind of what kills that guy for me.

Man just got another mother-load at a local target! So much cool stuff. Cyber opps. Bumble Bee (gigantic awesome BB, not the same mold as the ultimate), Voyager Battle blades Prime (A new mold, scaled down from the leader and to awesome), got DX Thrust and Drift as well as HA Jazz (one of the best transformers ever!). Man Hasbro has really kicked things up a notch (bam)!

WFC Bumblebee is nice looking but is an exercise in frustration to transform into car mode because of the precise nature of trying to fit in his parts (especially the legs) into a small area (car shell).

Don't have WFC Prime, yet. Not feeling it for WFC Megatron. I might go for WFC Soundwave (hoping a fan alt mode to a tape recorder is possible).

--------------------------------------------------------------

I asked if I have "Time For L-Gaim" but I got "No Reply From The Wind".

Vincent Z. Wrote:
> WFC Bumblebee is nice looking but is an exercise
> in frustration to transform into car mode because
> of the precise nature of trying to fit in his
> parts (especially the legs) into a small area (car
> shell).

Hmm...reminds me off the frustration I face with Big Convoy. The whole 'shell idea' with plates that 'snap' together...but not really.

How's the stability of the legs in robot mode? the WFC OP has very loose legs.

>Hmm...reminds me off the frustration I face with Big Convoy. The whole 'shell idea' >with plates that 'snap' together...but not really.

Well the thing is, I LOVED the Beast Wars Neo line and the "shellformers" style transformation. That carried over into Car Robots/Robots in Disguise as well. The main issue with WFC Bumblebee is that it's hard to get all the parts in the car mode together. Not impossible mind you.

>How's the stability of the legs in robot mode? the WFC OP has very loose legs.

One of the legs comes off a bit easily at the mid thigh level.

--------------------------------------------------------------

I asked if I have "Time For L-Gaim" but I got "No Reply From The Wind".

Since then, the usual purge instinct left me bereft of my Henkeis, and the usual regret instinct kicked in and prompted me to reclaim my favorite of that line (note: as much as I loved the boxy lines of the original G1 'Formers, the switch to more svelte and organic shapes in the Movie was a much welcomed shift...if nothing else because it was so unusual and unexpected):

Cyclonus was always my favorite of that new breed, and to have him in these colors is great. Yeah, it's a repaint. But yeah, it's a repaint that actually fixes some of the chintzier aspects of the Henkei release (namely by removing all the blasted chrome), and which is actually more cartoon accurate (if you're into that sort of thing) as regards the purple bunny ears and footsies. Overall, the darker color scheme is much more unified and appropriate, if I have to say. Even the Targetmaster looks better.

ok I have to chime in here. I definately remember when I walked away from Transformers and never came back until the Binaltech/Classics line. I loved the original concept of robots in disquise. When the original line came out I really felt like I had two toys a cool car etc and a cool robot. As always prowl was a good example. I think the idea that they bevcame sturdier is a crock. The truth is that once the brand was established they would throw ANYRHING together and call it a transformers. If the original G1's has a weak spot because of their robot modes it was because of the technology of the times more than anything. I always felt that as they made the cartoon series more adult they made the toys more "kiddie" Skylinx was stupid and giving him a British accent with an overly inflated ego just made him worse. I hated that stupid thing because I felt that Hasbrow wasn't even tyying at that point. Turning the shuttle into a robot who "RODE" a lion would have been cool sorta like a TF version of Heman and Thundercat. The only good TF's that came from post TF the movie were Hotrod, Kup (A really well made TF even though it didn't look like a real truck.) Cyclonus. I mean I kiked the concept of the powermasters and Headmasters (I still like a robot to have his own Head.) but I think we seperate what made a cool character VS. What made a cool toy.

Cool characters after the movie:

Ultra Magnus...Sucky toy just a op with extra stuff to lose.
Cyclonus....Cool character for a suck up and a decent figure. The new American classics version looks like the most accurate to me.)
Scurge-cool character sucky flying space boat.
Wreck gar- cool character but they needed to expand the junkion like.
Galvatron- GREAT revamp of Megatron but only after he got his senses back at the end. The toy SUCKED! It looked like a big purple flashlight with little arms. The classics is a great step in the right direction but too small and a pain to transformand i'm not big on the arms being so different.
Unicron- Great character that is FINALLY done to a good standard.

TF started to go to Hell with the dinobots introduction because the idea of a metalic robot dinosaur is stupid on all levels with the original idea of robots in disquise. I remember thinking when I was 12....Well that is stupid! But I can understand the marketing. If kids like dinosaurs (an who doesn't.) then a TF dinosaur would sell like gang busters (and it did.) The real reason we liked Grimlock is because of his character development on the TV show. Grimlock was the same pain in the ass to Prime as Starscream was to Megatron with the exception of him not being smart. He and Starscream BOTH had massive egos! The new classics line has brought be back I just wish they'd stop making also run character robots like powerglide and silverbolt as big robots (and now Seaspray? really he was such a nothing character to begin with.) I want to see a classics Jazz and Wheeljack (A real one not that $70.00 hodge pod kit that use to sell on Ebay.)

I'd guess that the Insecticons would get the same rise as well. Hasbro was in the business of selling toys, not making a TV show that made a lot of sense. This is one of those arguments that always irks me. It's sort of like when people complain that Ironhide's toy didn't look like the character in his cartoon form. Really? You think maybe it had to do with the fact that the toy came first, and "Transformers" weren't even envisioned at the time of its release?

I think some of you missed my point. I loved the dinobots as a toy and Grimlock as a TV character. As far as the insecticons go I loved the simplicity of Kickback and wanted to get the re-issue they had at TRU. My point is If you stick with the original idea of "Robots in Disguise" Then yes the Dinobots, and the insecticons make no sense. At least the back story of the insecticons being designed back when the insects roamed the world with the dinosaurs showed that the tv wtiters were alt least trying. I always thought the best line that came out for the original G1 line were the combaticons. The idea of the evil robots being based on vehicles of war just made sense.

Speaking of which the "Constructicons" always sounded like a title that should have gone to an Autobot sub-group. The work "construct" seems like a positive adverb. I always thought they should have been called the "DEstructicons" and yes I know that they were suppose to be good until Megatron screwed them updidn't fit. but I always thought that was the writers trying to make sense of a title that didn't work in the first place.

Once the show went into the future where TF were everywhere and had affected the human culture the disguise part was moot moving towards teransforming into something for battle or utility.

All Skylinx did was pull out the head and the tail and that was a transformer? The new classics linelion bottom part was ok but pulling out the head and tail and calling that a transformation was just phoneng it in.

I got the new Drift and I CAN NOT EXPRESS HOW COOL THAT FIGURE IS! If they do some repaints I hope they change the head and how the arms are displayed to give it a different look like they did with sunstreaker/sideswipe. I got the Thrust too and I'm so glad I waited. It is done so well! If the face had a little more detail (yellow eyes on a light grey face gives it a washed look.) Other then that Thurst is my favorite of the cone head planes. Just waiting on the Dirge and Thundercracker.

I wish Fansproject would make a tv accurate size gun for the planes. Their too big but I understand the safety issue and they do shoot, but we're collectors having accurate scale guns would be sweet.

This might make a better new thred but What has been the best of the classics line?

To date I have to give it to Sunstreaker/sideswipe. Little to no kibble and the perportions. I'll probably go to the seeker/conehead planes. They look so much like the cartoon and the transformation is so easy.

Marvin Lee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Speaking of which the "Constructicons" always
> sounded like a title that should have gone to an
> Autobot sub-group. The work "construct" seems like
> a positive adverb. I always thought they should
> have been called the "DEstructicons" and yes I
> know that they were suppose to be good until
> Megatron screwed them updidn't fit. but I always
> thought that was the writers trying to make sense
> of a title that didn't work in the first place.
>
I feel like a total ass for engaging in a discussion about reasonable nomenclature w/r/t the Transformers, but here goes: Weren't the green guys always "constructing" WMDs and doodads for Megatron in the cartoon? Seems to me even bad guys need engineers and fabricators to build their shit (and they're listed as such on the file cards). Like Nazi scientists, you know?

The Japanese name for them was Buildrons, by the way, which seems just as appropriate given that the system of naming was based on personality/occupation.

But you know what? If Hasbro had called them the Six Green Fuckwads back in the day, it wouldn't bother me one bit. As a kid I would have pestered my parents for Six Green Fuckwads for Christmas, and as an adult I would be fantasizing about a Masterpiece version of the Six Green Fuckwads, is how much I care about the appropriateness of names on these toys.

Great to hear that Classics Thrust is out...I'll have to track one down.

Anyway, I think this discussion comes down to how much you really care about the cartoon, how much you care about the toy line, and how you relate the two. I liked the show well enough growing up, but I wasn't "hooked" on watching it (of course, I was sorta growing out of toys and cartoons by the time the post-movie episodes aired). Either way, watching the cartoon was almost a completely separate event from "playing" with other kids on the block with our toys. The cartoon was fine for wasting time when there was nothing else to do, but when we played, we busted out whatever we had and didn't give a rat fuck about who were supposed to be "good guys" and who were "bad guys". Basically, our older toys became the baddies by default, and whatever was the latest thing became the heroes.

So, as you can imagine, I couldn't have cared less about the "robots in disguise" theme...as long as the toys kicked much ass, I was happy. I'm guessing this sort of play pattern was fairly common, but who knows...

Same here. When I was a kid, mostly it was just ogling and passing around the newest/biggest piece that came down the pipeline or taking a closer look at the toys we didn't have, that kind of thing.

I mean, the cartoons did help dictate which toys I wanted more, so as advertising they worked. But even then we all knew how stupid and crass the show was. I distinctly remember in the fifth grade watching/studying stuff about how companies like Hasbro using commercials to target kids, misrepresenting the toys in the commercials, inflating expectations, etc.

So, yeah, it makes no sense to me when people talk or complain about logic or story/character development in a cartoon like Transformers. Story development? Characterization? Compared to what? The Teletubbies? Thankfully, we had Robotech for our kid dose of soap opera.

I tried the other day watching an episode of Jayce and the Wheeled Warriors, because I sort of remember it being above average in the crop of 80s merchandising cartoons, but I couldn't get through more than a few minutes of it, was how bad it was.

Heh...it's so fucking true. It's funny: I remember a time absolutely HATING the GI Joe cartoon...and yet, I had a few of the toys and recall great times playing with them with my friends. And even now, most of my feelings of the franchise are positive (hell, I even downloaded and watched that recent Resolute cartoon!).

Oh, and while I never had a Skylinx, one of my friends did...I seemed pretty fucking cool. I mean, it was a TF with motorized walking action...seems hard to go wrong there!

You know, I really liked the animation/action sequences in Resolute, but it's like a cartoon collection of all the prominent tropes of 80s action films--shitty dialogue, ridiculous plotting, absurd characterization, racial stereotypes, but without any of the old Joe nostalgia to make up for it...I watched a few episodes of Masterforce recently, per VZ's recommendation (and thanks, VZ, for a non-pervy, non-embarrassing suggestion), and it's actually decent. I keep thinking about how nice it would have been if the original Transformers cartoon we got had been animated like that.

>I watched a few episodes of Masterforce recently, per VZ's recommendation (and >thanks, VZ, for a non-pervy, non-embarrassing suggestion), and it's actually >decent. I keep thinking about how nice it would have been if the original >Transformers cartoon we got had been animated like that.

You're welcome....I think.

--------------------------------------------------------------

I asked if I have "Time For L-Gaim" but I got "No Reply From The Wind".

I was one that felt the magic of TF's were the ability to make something that really looked like a car, plane etc. then REALLY looking like a robot. My biggest nod was always when they could pull both off. That's why for back in the day Jetfire was the ultimate even though I knew it was a repop of another toy line but it was sooooo cool.

The new classic version would have gone from 85% perfect in my eyes IF they had made the plane a little sleaker.

P.S.
I haven't found the photo of the new Blurr can someone post it. Also Drift is almost the size of OP.Is the classic like getting larger? or is this just an exception.

I know there is suppose to do a dirg....finally but I thought they would have been cranked out an easy repaint with Thundercracker. At first we were told that this wasn't going to happen but that was suppose to be the case with Thrust and he's now sitting on my shelf and is the best of the seeker/conehead plane designs

Picked up that (edit)Thrust finally. But the other shorty-jet mold they're using for Dirge(yeah, he was on the same shelf), and some other knockoff named jet, I'm not so into. Looks more like something from the recent movie line.

Also, if anyone's wanting those G1 reissues of Insecticons, and Perceptor, they're dropped to $25 now at TRU. Again, I'll grab 'em if anyone wants.

repairtechjon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Picked up that (edit)Thrust finally. But the other
> shorty-jet mold they're using for Dirge(yeah, he
> was on the same shelf), and some other knockoff
> named jet, I'm not so into. Looks more like
> something from the recent movie line.

OK, you guys got me.
In the store, the "Revenge of the Fallen" Dirge, was on the same pegs as the "Generations" Thrust, and I didn't even realize the difference.(distracted by Grimlocks)
Stupid toy stores: confusing generations of simple minded kids, now and forever.

P.S. I saw the picture of Blurr. They learned a good lesson from sideswipe/sunstreaker. Give us a different headsculpt, paint scheme, and weapons and body pannels moved/posed differently and you have a completely different robot for pennies on the dollar.