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I would like to point out that this is not a "hate" thread. If I had managed to pass myself as such then I deeply apologize for it. I saw the video and many of the points established made me believe that this does merit some discussion. As of yet, the original poster has uploaded the "unedited" version of the video which is confirmed to be on survivor mode. I will also place the original E3 demo AND the PAX demo so that everyone can evaluate the differences between them:

Turns out enemy has self-preservation at a higher difficulty setting. Video is a lot better when showcasing the AI but still lacks the intensity personally. The brick to the face still lack that "oomph" compared to the E3 demo.

So, I've stumbled upon a video that compares the final version of the game compared to the E3 demo. Personally, I have enjoyed it with the AI delivering some depth (on Hard Mode). However, I did NOT expect the AI difference to be this drastic. ND stated that they had to tone down the AI for your allies but not the enemies (at least to my knowledge). So far, we really need to elaborate on this "Balance of Power" they've constantly used as a selling point for the game and we're hardly seeing any of it. Observe below:

It is very sad that the game has been toned down to this level not to the extreme levels of Bioshock: Infinite or Aliens: CM but I feel like I'm playing the shareware version of the game. IMO, ND should've at least give us the E3 mode at Survival as it makes no sense for us to run a higher difficulty level with this lower intended design at mind.

Banned

They said that they toned down A.I. because they kept on flanking players and the system got very complicated, or some sort.

And no, this is not even CLOSE to Alien: CM.

Look at every E3 demo. Almost all of them had scripted moments to showcase what is possible and what isn't. The tablet features in every E3 demo shown was fake because they replicated all those exactly in every other demo showcasing.

With that said, it would be interesting to see what the A.I. could've done if this was kept.

Member

So, I've stumbled upon a video that compares the final version of the game compared to the E3 demo. Personally, I have enjoyed it with the AI delivering some depth (on Hard Mode). However, I did NOT expect the AI difference to be this drastic. ND stated that they had to tone down the AI for your allies but not the enemies (at least to my knowledge). So far, we really need to elaborate on this "Balance of Power" they've constantly used as a selling point for the game and we're hardly seeing any of it. Observe below:

It is very sad that the game has been toned down to this level not to the extreme levels of Bioshock: Infinite or Aliens: CM but I feel like I'm playing the shareware version of the game. IMO, ND should've at least give us the E3 mode at Survival as it makes no sense for us to run a higher difficulty level with this lower intended design at mind.

Member

I've definitely seen the AI run in fear, I think the reason for their fearlessness in the video is the fact that they have strength in numbers. Searching drawers, some environmental bits and the gun grab from the side all seem to be MIA though.

Regardless, this game's AI is still leaps ahead of almost anything else out there. It just gets nitpicked more because of the hype and the e3 demo being toned down. Video game AI 20 years from now will still have occasional AI quirks.

Member

I'm guessing it was something like Uncharted 3 where you were constantly being flanked and charged at in a not so fair and fun way.
I'm just guessing though.

The A.I. in the Last of Us is overall pretty bad, but for some reason this is more noticeable at the start.
I remember in the first stealth encounter of all I was strangling a dude 3 feet away from another enemy, but since the other enemy was turned the other way he didn't even react...that was very immersion breaking. His friend was suffocating and fighting for his life right behind him and he just stood there.
I think the later encounters (except the last one) are fairly well designed and for some reason this kind of stuff was less noticeable, but still there. The encounters with infected are really cool as well.

Still loved the game to death. The game was more about atmosphere, for me anyway

Banned

Erm, I think he just recorded any instance of the AI glitching or something. because I've seen the AI do most of those things, and add to that, they're not supposed to react how they have in some of his recorded scenes. I actually found their viewing fov too sensitive at times. Like they could see me from way across a room even when I was in a fairly dark spot.

Banned

Switched to hard by that point so I don't know if the AI is better or if it's just because I didn't play the game the way that video demonstrates (sitting and waiting, getting oneself seen on purpose etc.) All I know is that when I did get seen they either came running toward me to hit me with an object or ran to hide behind cover. Wouldn't be surprised. This is how early stuff works.

For me, good AI is not about how realistically it reacts to normal stimuli (ie - like real life), rather, how well it works within the confines of the games systems. There is a big difference between sensitive AI and AI designed for fun.

The AI in The Last of Us works brilliantly, I think, offering a perfect blend of semi-realistic behavior with patterns and reactions that allow the player a proper chance at success.

Member

I did the exact same thing when I got to that same part of the demo. If honestly felt like they toned down the...."realness" and fear of the A.I. compared to the E3 demo. There was a sense of "emotional" weight in each gunfight back then that isn't there now. Wondering if they felt it was getting a little too real maybe?

Anyway regarding OP, I agree in that they could have put this in survivor mode but we don't know what the AI was actually like besides a few videos. This video looks cool but maybe it actually sucked to play against this AI. We'll never know...
Also if you watch this video you can see that they have a sort of cover system too, which I am so happy they took out.

Banned

the enemy AI is not like that on hard. I've totally seen them destroying me and not staring at me like they do in this video. It could have something to do with it. Also they expressed fear in my version as far as I know (the "he's got a gun" and all that).

OMG, I still have nightmare about that showdown within the ship's cargohold on Crushing. FFS, enemies left, right, front, and back without mercy.

But it's completely false to say that the enemies on TLoU don't flank you. They do. They may not as accurate as real-life flanking but if you let them, they'd close the loophole where you can escape undetected.

Banned

Here's the play through of that exact segment on Survivor. The guy making the vids makes a point of thinking the game is very realistic on Survivor mode, though the Ai still has it's issues now and again, on the whole it is very sharp. Even running alerts them from long distances.

Banned

I thought the AI was good enough that it kept the game fun and challenging.

Most people don't realize that overly smart AI can destroy fun pretty quickly. I hated the AI in FEAR for how often they would just disappear and the next thing you know you're being suppressed and flanked.

I didn't mean to insinuate the game is bad. It's just that - compared to the E3 demo - the differences IMO is practically WORLDS apart. The final game AI wasn't that bad and I played it through Hard Mode. Maybe he was playing at the easiest difficulty which is why we are seeing a lot of contention here. I just want to create awareness of the situation and why ND should implement "subtext" next to difficulty levels (like Hitman: Absolution) indicating what kind of obstacles we are to face rather than leaving it as a standalone description.

EXACTLY, this is what I don't get! ND could've gone away from the easiest of difficulty game tropes and they stuck with your typical "more resistant enemy, lower health" bullshit. A pure missed opportunity, really. How hard is it to implement replace the Listen Mode with a lean system (like the one at the E3 demo) or having better AI intelligence. What's the point of a higher difficulty if it's just a more frustrating version of the normal one?

Member

Ok... so I just watched the E3 2012 stage demo for the first time (was on media blackout for this game throughout).

I now see why people are upset. The final product is nothing like that in terms of flawless companion and enemy AI. It's nowhere near as bad as the video in the OP suggests, but it's nowhere near as good as the E3 demo either.

Was the ND guy really playing live? Maybe, but with custom scripts to make it all work without a hitch. That was not the genuine AI there.

Really, please elaborate? How did you manage to wrestle the gun from the enemy? Or having a bloody nose while ground fighting? Also, did the enemy grabbed your arm and punched your face while you were aiming? What difficulty setting were you playing on?

Member

I still think the AI is one of the best in the business. Very convincing. This comparison notwithstanding.

One of the most memorable moments for me was when some dude came around the corner, spotted me, noticed I had a gun and he immediately went "Oh shit, he's got a gun!" and he dodged away instead of charging at me.

You can offset the balance had enemies received realistic damage like limping while being shot in the leg or being unable to shoot if shot in the arm. By doing this you don't necessarily have to "kill" everyone, just tactfully utilizing the best of your abilities to survive. The whole point of a survival game is to work away around disadvantages. This is why the sandbox nature of the game is workable without bordering around being trivial.