There's been some recent confusion with the old spoiler thread, so I'm kicking off a new one for tonight's premiere. This is going to be the one for folks who've read all the books. So anything anybody might want to talk about is in bounds. Suffice to say, if you haven't read the books, you'll probably want to stay out of here until you do...

I'll bump the old spoiler-free thread shortly in case anybody's interested. For future reference the link to that one is here

Wrong. Think back to all the sure deaths in ASOIAF and tell me you're still sure he is dead. Especially a POV character. Ned's death was final and was left in a way you knew he was dead. The way Jon's POV ended was left to discuss. He never felt that last stab, so I think he warged to Ghost in that instant. Also look at Brienne's POV and tell me that's not similar. He's alive and it's quite obvious.

Did you not read my second sentence? Of course he wargs into Ghost and will move back into his own body, Melisandre saw it in the flames. However, there is no need for him to do any such thing if his body doesn't die.

Did you not read my second sentence? Of course he wargs into Ghost and will move back into his own body, Melisandre saw it in the flames. However, there is no need for him to do any such thing if his body doesn't die.

Legitimately dead means he enters the afterlife or his existence ends in darkness or whatever you believe happens when people die. Catelyn legitimately died. Beric legitimately died, several times. Jon however does not legitimately die. This is why he won't end up like either of the two previously mentioned people because he didn't legitimately die.

Legitimately dead means he enters the afterlife or his existence ends in darkness or whatever you believe happens when people die. Catelyn legitimately died. Beric legitimately died, several times. Jon however does not legitimately die. This is why he won't end up like either of the two previously mentioned people because he didn't legitimately die.

To be Azor Ahai, he must be reborn. If he never dies, he isn't reborn. Melisandre is significantly more powerful than Thoros, and it took a large number of resurrections for Beric to be significantly affected. There is little reason to think he'll be a shambling rotting corpse like Cat.

Maybe, but I get the sense that they avoided Lady Stoneheart and Coldhands because they didn't want to end on a supernatural note like they did the prior season with the Others and their zombie army. Wouldn't surprise me to see both in season 4.

Maybe, but I get the sense that they avoided Lady Stoneheart and Coldhands because they didn't want to end on a supernatural note like they did the prior season with the Others and their zombie army. Wouldn't surprise me to see both in season 4.