While not all modern translations are as accurate as some, the Greek and Hebrew texts scholars work from today have been passed down from the originals virtually unchanged . . .

Agreed. There are very good translations. But I wouldn't count the King James among them, and a lot of people see that as the one true Bible. My intention was not to say that the stories are fictional, rather that arguing over whether they are fictional or not is a waste of time. People need to stop worrying about the details and look for the meaning. Does it really make any difference if it all happened exactly as described. Not to me.

In Islam they believe the Koran actually came down from heaven in book form and that it was not written down by any man. Mohamed is said to have been illiterate.

Not quite true. According to Muslim historians, the Quran was spoken by Muhammad and memorized down by his followers, then written down about 20 years later. I have little doubt it has accurately passed down what Muhammad said. The Hadith, however - the stories of Muhammad's life - are not as reliable, since some of them were not written down until centuries later.

Andy C - "Agreed. There are very good translations. But I wouldn't count the King James among them, and a lot of people see that as the one true Bible. My intention was not to say that the stories are fictional, rather that arguing over whether they are fictional or not is a waste of time. People need to stop worrying about the details and look for the meaning. Does it really make any difference if it all happened exactly as described. Not to me."

The King James was a remarkable piece of scholarship for its time, but the English language has changed so much the KJV has lost a great deal of its meaning. Also, modern translators have five times the manuscript material to work with than their contemporaries 400 years ago. I personally favor the New American Standard - not the most readable version, but the translators made a painstaking effort to follow the original Greek as closely as possible. But, if it all happened exactly as described, it should make some difference to you. Because God broke into the world in a supernatural way for your sake as much as for mine, and is holding out a free ticket to eternity with your name on it . . . .

I'm not a scholar and I tend to look at the grist of things and my one comment about all those Bible stories I grew up reading is this, mankind hasn't changed a lot in the last 6000 years. Almost anything that is going on now is mentioned in there.

As far as Islam, I haven't studied it and can only judge it personally by the few Muslims I've known, but they were all pretty much Americanized.

In Islam they believe the Koran actually came down from heaven in book form and that it was not written down by any man. Mohamed is said to have been illiterate.

Not quite true. According to Muslim historians, the Quran was spoken by Muhammad and memorized down by his followers, then written down about 20 years later. I have little doubt it has accurately passed down what Muhammad said. The Hadith, however - the stories of Muhammad's life - are not as reliable, since some of them were not written down until centuries later.

The average Muslim believes the book (the Koran) came down literally from heaven in printed book form. Ask most any Muslim believer and they will tell you this is fact.

There were also those Koran verses that were written down on animal bone fragments since they didn't have access to paper out in the desert. These bones with verses were gathered up and put together in a book by his immediate followers.

The King James was a remarkable piece of scholarship for its time, but the English language has changed so much the KJV has lost a great deal of its meaning. Also, modern translators have five times the manuscript material to work with than their contemporaries 400 years ago. I personally favor the New American Standard - not the most readable version, but the translators made a painstaking effort to follow the original Greek as closely as possible. But, if it all happened exactly as described, it should make some difference to you. Because God broke into the world in a supernatural way for your sake as much as for mine, and is holding out a free ticket to eternity with your name on it . . . .

The New American Standard is without a doubt a very accurate translation of the scriptures. For accessibility, I rather like the Contemporary English Version. Not as lyrical as the King James I knew growing up, but it succeeds very well as a translation into modern English. It is very easily understood by the average reader.

That really is the trade-off with scriptural translations, accuracy vs. readability. The NAS sought to come as close to a word-for-word translation as possible, while the CEV aimed to be a true English version. Both have their merits.

Regarding your other point, it really isn't important to me that everything in the bible is the literal truth. If Jesus was just a great teacher and philosopher, does that diminish the value of what he had to say? If he was not divine at all, does it mean we've wasted our time being Christians? I don't think so.

Andy C - "Regarding your other point, it really isn't important to me that everything in the bible is the literal truth. If Jesus was just a great teacher and philosopher, does that diminish the value of what he had to say? If he was not divine at all, does it mean we've wasted our time being Christians? I don't think so. "

There I must respectfully disagree. When Jesus said things like "Before Abraham was, I AM!" and "I am the way, the truth, and the life, and no man comes to the Father but through me;" or "I and the Father are one;" or "He that believes in Me, though he were dead, yet shall he live" - anyone who says that kind of stuff is either the biggest liar who ever lived, or else flat out nuts and ready for the rubber room - OR ELSE, they are exactly who they claim to be and what they are saying is the truth. If Jesus wasn't the Son of God, the He wasn't a great philosopher or even a good man - he was either a deliberate charlatan or else a madman.

I would strongly recommend to anyone who is truly curious about the historical evidences for Jesus and the accuracy of the New Testamen to look into two books - THE CASE FOR CHRIST by Lee Strobel and HE WALKED AMONG US by Josh McDowell. They make the case far more effectively than this old country boy.

Though nobody's yet explained to me why none of these various higher powers have come down to Earth to straighten out who's right or wrong yet. And if he/she/they don't appreciate my question, I invite them to step down, get with the smiting and prove me wrong. I've been waiting for some of this righteous wrath firsthand! Then again, I'm pretty sure that even if one of 'em (or all of 'em for that matter) did make their presence known, I can see a situation where detractors worldwide like Rush Limbaugh would still call this all powerful force wrong. Then again, are Gods like Tinkerbell and they can't appear until enough people in the world believe in one or the other, hence why they rely on we shaved apes to do all their talking for them?

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Regarding your other point, it really isn't important to me that everything in the bible is the literal truth. If Jesus was just a great teacher and philosopher, does that diminish the value of what he had to say? If he was not divine at all, does it mean we've wasted our time being Christians? I don't think so.

Andy, have you ever checked out the Jefferson Bible. Thomas Jefferson edited the Gospels down in an attempt to get at the philosophy of Jesus, leaving out all the supernatural elements. You may find it interesting.

Jefferson definitely anticipated the "Jesus Seminar" folks in that regard. he didn't believe in the supernatural, so he took out all supernatural elements of the Bible. In the process, he robbed Jesus of everything that made him unique and turned him into just another philosopher. The one thing that becomes clear when you study the New Testament era is that Jesus' followers NEVER regarded him as simply a great teacher or philosopher . . . their reverence for him was based on an unwavering belief that he was the Son of God, and that belief came from the fact that they saw him do supernatural things. Taking the miraculous out of the life of Jesus is like taking golf out of the life of Tiger Woods.

What puzzles me about islam is that Jesus is viewed as a Prophet and they also view the Gospels as one of their holy books(they believe that the Torah was the first book given by god, the Gospels the second, and the Quran is supposed to be the final book from god). But even though the Quaran is supposed to be the final version they still are supposed to heed the teachings of earlier prophets. So wouldn't that mean that the extremeists had to heed the teachings of Jesus? I'm assuming they found a loop hole, but their extremeists so who can understand thier reasoning?And Menard why keep posting as a guest?

Many Christians do the same thing with the Old Testament and New Testament. The argument is that it became a whole new ballgame when Jesus arrived, and anything he said trumps what came before. Muslims do the same thing with Mohammed.