Erik: need to maintain backwards compat, and properties et in style sheets have higher specificity than any value set in a sttle sheet

20:28:31 [ChrisL]

s/sttle sheet/attribute/

20:28:47 [ChrisL]

Erik: Most comments seem to agree with the option 1 in my mail

20:29:20 [ChrisL]

Dino: Trying to understand what point Anne makes, the initial value should use the attribute

20:29:49 [ChrisL]

... doesn't quite work because transitions or animations that go through 'none' should go to the null transform

20:30:23 [ChrisL]

Chris; So we need separate values for identity transform and "use the attribute"

20:30:26 [ChrisL]

Dino: Yes

20:31:04 [ChrisL]

Simon: Exactly. Any transform creates a CSS stacking context and a positioning container

20:31:37 [ChrisL]

Doug: Also times when ther e is a transform that you want to blow away using CSS so we need that capability

20:31:49 [ChrisL]

Dino: Keyword "identity"?

20:33:04 [ChrisL]

... especially for animations, using lists. Transforms in a list animated separately, to avoid flattening rotations > 360 degrees. Should add an identity keyword. Still need an auto as an initial value, like none in CSS and does nothing in SVG

Dino: Suggest we leave that for now as its more about trnsitions than transforms

20:43:30 [ChrisL]

Dino: Transitions work really well with style changes, so making transforms as style helps there

20:44:22 [ChrisL]

Simon: Specifying behavior is tricky to work between smil animation and css animation. One solution is to map all css transforms down to transforms in attributes for example. So its all mapped to one value space

20:44:33 [fantasai]

fantasai has joined #fx

20:45:26 [ChrisL]

Anthony: Agree this needs to be considered, for implementors and authors, ease of authoring and also performance

For user agents that support CSS, the presentation attributes must be translated to corresponding CSS style rules according to rules described in Precedence of non-CSS presentational hints ([CSS2], section 6.4.4), with the additional clarification that the presentation attributes are conceptually inserted into a new author style sheet which is the first in the author style sheet collection. The presentation attributes thus will participate in the CSS2 cascade as

20:48:27 [fantasai]

um

20:48:29 [fantasai]

that got cut off

20:48:31 [fantasai]

also

20:48:32 [ChrisL]

Erik: So we would need to move the SVG transform attribute to the CSS transform property. Mostly this works but in some cases not

20:48:46 [fantasai]

the rule *is* that the attributes are inserted into a new author style sheet that is the first in the author style sheet collection

20:48:48 [ChrisL]

Erik: ref transform in SVG 1.2 is an example'Simon: right

20:48:53 [fantasai]

and that they have zero specificity

20:49:15 [fantasai]

so that all subsequent rules override the attributes

20:49:32 [fantasai]

that doesn't require any "additional" clarification, it's in the spec

20:49:45 [ChrisL]

Simon: So that aligns with Erik's option 1 in his email

20:49:50 [ChrisL]

Erik: yes

20:50:03 [fantasai]

SVG just needs to say that its attribues are handled as non-CSS presentational hints like <font face>

20:50:51 [fantasai]

also, wrt 360 normalization, I think we already decided to fix that. You just need to pester howcome about editing it into the draft

20:51:03 [fantasai]

or get someone else to edit it

20:51:09 [shepazu]

fantasai, can you join the call?

20:51:36 [fantasai]

passcode?

20:51:45 [smfr]

FXTF (3983)

20:52:24 [Zakim]

+[IPcaller]

20:52:41 [ChrisL]

Zakim, IPcaller is fantasai

20:52:41 [Zakim]

+fantasai; got it

20:52:51 [ChrisL]

zakim, list attendees

20:52:51 [Zakim]

As of this point the attendees have been ed, Doug_Schepers, ChrisL, anthony, +1.858.655.aaaa, plinss_, +1.408.454.aabb, dino, smfr, fantasai

20:53:10 [ChrisL]

zakim, +1 858 is Peter

20:53:10 [Zakim]

I don't understand '+1 858 is Peter', ChrisL

20:53:23 [ChrisL]

zakim, aaaa is Peter

20:53:23 [Zakim]

sorry, ChrisL, I do not recognize a party named 'aaaa'

20:53:29 [ChrisL]

zakim, +aaaa is Peter

20:53:29 [Zakim]

sorry, ChrisL, I do not recognize a party named '+aaaa'

20:53:34 [shepazu]

zakim, +1.858 is Peter

20:53:34 [Zakim]

sorry, shepazu, I do not recognize a party named '+1.858'

20:53:41 [ChrisL]

zakim, get a grip

20:53:41 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'get a grip', ChrisL

20:53:46 [anthony]

zakim, 1.858 is Peter

20:53:46 [Zakim]

sorry, anthony, I do not recognize a party named '1.858'

20:54:15 [ChrisL]

ok so 858 is Peter and 408 is Anthony. Moving on .....

20:54:32 [ChrisL]

Doug: (explains recap on hints)

20:55:35 [ChrisL]

Chris (explains re legacy, hints, 1:1 mapping)

20:56:08 [ChrisL]

Elika: CSS 2.1 or CSS3 cascading can be tweaked if needed. no aditional clarification in SVG is needed

20:56:23 [fantasai]

"For other languages, all document language-based styling should be handled in the user agent style sheet. "

20:56:36 [ChrisL]

...which is wrong

20:57:07 [ChrisL]

Elika: That spec should be made more SVG freindly

20:58:05 [ChrisL]

Chris: I agree and think the wording in SVG is a condensation of my various explanations of how CSS works

20:58:45 [ChrisL]

Erik: So we agree on mapping SVG transform attr into the corresponding CSS property. So we need an explicit mapping - volunteers?

20:59:25 [ChrisL]

... rotate function with three params in svg, one in CSS because of transform-origin property

20:59:48 [ChrisL]

Dino: Or we could add rotate with three params. Try to avoid argument overloading

21:00:18 [ChrisL]

Anthony: By default rotates happen around centre of object, so does two extra values give you an offset?