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western carolinian no 197 vol iv salisbury n c tuesday march 16 1824 printed bvphilo white blis!te ,. 0 f tlie laws of the united states . terms of the western carolinian will after be as follows : three dollars a year in advance fiwrtisements will be inserted at fifty cents jarare for the first insertion and twenty-five k for each subsequent one all letters addressed to the editor must be paid or they will not be attended to ted now will any person contend that mr crawford would not at this moment have been president if he had succeeded in the caucus ? but as anxious as that gentleman and his friends were to make him president they gave up all hopes as soon as they failed in the caucus in fact as soon as mr monroe was nominated by the caucus his election was considered secure and all further opposition ceased and when the people of north carolina were called upon to vote for the electors they considered it so much of a farce that not more than one vote in ten was given in ; they felt that it was unneces sary to spend their time in going to the polls to vote when the caucus had alrea dy decided the election is it not plain then that members of congress by means of these caucuses do indirectly what by the constitution they are inhibi ted from doing directly ? it is certain then that the constitution of the united states prohibits members of congress from acting as electors ; and it is equally clear that the intention of that instrument is to exclude them from any agency what ever in electing the president except in the event of no election by the people now let us enquire what are the reasons of this prohibition ? madison jay and hamilton in a work that will remain a standard as long as the constitution lasts inform us that the reason of this inhibi tion was to guard against " cabal intrigue and corruption the framers of the constitution were wise men ; they knew the depravity of the human heart they had seen in the history of our govern ment to what lengths ambition would lead men ; that many had waded through corruption and blood to reach their object they knew that the presidency of this great republic was a prize at which men of the greatest talents and most inurdi nate ambition might aim ; and it was to be feared that some of these would stop at nothing to gain it to guard against such men on such occasions it was tho't wiser and safer to confide the election to the people than to intrust it to a jire-ex isvng body of men the people at the same time throughout lhe union vote for electors â€” these electors are thus created as it were in one day ; and before they could possibly be corrupted they have convened executed their trust and dis pciacj again . oo mat mere is nu puaai ble chance of corrupting them but is this the case with members of con gress ? they are elected nearly two years before hand ; and for a considera ble part of that time are on the spot at washington where the intrigue and man agement is going on : they are a tangi ble pre-established body and are subject to be operated on by the arts and manage ment of the candidates who are also gen erally on the spot there are some in this house who will es teem them the more on that account them would be that they were necessary to prevent the election from going into the house of representatives ; for if it goes into the house the choice will go by states â€” each state giving but one vote ai first appearance this is a plausible ar gument but it will not bear examination the federal constitution it most be kept in view is a work of compromise when the members from the different states met in convention to form a new consti tution they soon found that it was a work of immense difficulty so conflicting were the feelings interests and views of the several states vve are told that at one time they were on the point of breaking up and returning home without having come to any conclusions : but inspired by the spirit of patriotism they renewed their labors each section of the coun try gave up some of its views in order to gain other ; and thus by mutual compro mise they formed the federal constitu tion which never would have been form ed on any other principles mr f said he would very briefly notice three of the principles of compromise adopted in the constitution the first was that the small states should be protected from the overwhelming influence of the great onesi by being admitted to an equal weight in the senate without a concession of this kind in their favor the small states would never have gone into the union the next compromise was in favor of the southern states â€” the partial representa tion of our slave population by which we gain one-third of our weight in the house of representatives the southern states never would have adopted the constitution without some provision of this nature the third principle of compromise is in tended further to operate in favor of the small states ; it is when the nation fails to elect tbe president that thgn the elec tion shall be made by the states each giv ing one vole mr maduon in his re marks in the virginia convention speaks of this part ofthe constitution as an im portant compromise designed to concili ate the small states this then is a compromise and the avowed object of a caticus is to defeat this provision of the constitution heretofore caucuses were against party â€” now th<sy are against the constitution what would we say if the members from tbe non slave holding atutca wore to go into caucus to defeat that part of the constitution which allows three-fifths of our slaves to be represen ted and thus to deprive us of one third of our weight in the general government ? would we quietly permit them to do so ? no â€” we would cry treason ! and march either to defend the constitution or to dis solve the union now cannot the small states with equal justness cry out against a caucus that scheme to destroy the pro visions of the constitution intended to operate in their favor ? surely they can we should not forget the golden rule of doing to others as we wish others to do unto us one part of the constitution is as sacred as the rest ; if any part is more so than others it certainly ought to be those parts formed on the principles of concession and compromise : these it were that brought the states together and a violation of these more apt than any other may dissolve the union to hold a caucus then by members of con gress for the purpose of defeating the express provisions of the constitution is certainly doing what they have solemnly sworn not to do â€” it is violating the con stitution is cheating the smaller states out of their just powers and the people out of their rights sia mr f said he rejoiced to see that the people were already taking the alarm ; that they began to see the dangerous ten dencies of the practice of caucusing and that they were raising their voices in eve ry part of the nation against it our sis ter state tennessee had already denoun ced it and we may expect to see it put down in every quarter of the nation in north-carolina caucuses have been un popular ; they will become more so the vote we are about to give on these resolu tions will not be concealed from the pub lic â€” it will go forth and the people will see who are their friends and who are for giving up their rights it will be remembered that in 8 16 mr monroe and mr crawford were can didates for the presidency the revo lutionary services of mr monroe his im portant services during the last war and his great experience in public affairs had pointed him out to the american people as the successor of mr madison as to mr crawford he had no such claims to the office ; nevertheless he was pushed forward as a candidate and by manage ment came near being nominated by the caucus to give an idea how members of congress may be influenced on these occasions i will read said mr f a few extracts from the editors of the national intelligencer made at the time these editors are very intelligent gentlemen ; they were eye-witnesses of the intrigues and management that were carried on for the purpf.se of making mr crawford president these gentlemen tell us " that when congress first met no other can didate was pubncly spoken of but james monroe they add m we consult our int lination and probably the interest of the greal republican family by avoiding an examination into the circumstances a combination of which had nearly produced a nomination in direct opposition to the pub lic will again " it is a fact undisputed we believe that the activity and pre con concert of the opponents of mr monroe and fastidious delicacy of his best friends which prevented active exertions in sup port of his nomination together produced a state of things astonishing to most of the people of the united states who ex pected nothing less than that division of sentiment which prevailed among their representatives again ; â€” " on their part the part of mr crawford's friends no exertions were spared as no labour was too great so no means were too hum ble to aid their object " if one half the exertions had been made by mr mon roe's friends that were made by his oppo nents the nomination would have been as unanimous as it certainly would have been as congress first assembled â€” when no other candidate was publicly spoken of but james monroe this is a fact which we ought not to overlook these gentle men further give it as their opinion that to refer the election to the people " would greatly narrow tne scope jor iningue and venality it would moreover , prevent the possibility of the popular will being defea ted by a cabal which is now possible to say the least of it isfc this is the tes timony of those who were on the spot and were attentive to the passing scenes preparatory to the caucus of 1816 i shall said mr f read one more extract mr niles one whose republicanism honesty and truth have never been doubt ed in speaking of the caucus that is to determine the approaching presidential election says " i had a pretty near view of some of the proposed hidden things that are going on and do verily believe just as surely as that i shall die and ac count for my acts that quasi bargains have been made as for the sale of votes and that these bargains will be brought into a cau cus if composed of the members of the fire sent congress this then is the nature of a caucus that is to deprive the people of their just privileges in chusing a chief magistrate but these are not the only republicans who have disaproved the prac tice of caucusing in every congress that has held a caucus there are many re publicans who condemned it i take pleasure said mr f to mention among these the name of our elder senator mr macon ; he never attends caucuses in the caucus of 1812 only 17 out of the 36 senators attended ; and only 65 out of the whole number of representatives attended so that only a minority of two fifths were present at that caucus with this view of caucusing can the people continue to tolerate a practice which is not only a violation of the constitution but an usur pation of their just rights and privileges ? debate jn the legislature of north carolina on mr fisher's iirn-caucus resolutions from the raleigh register a motion had been made by mr bvnum to postpone the preamble and resolutions indefinitely mr fisher said to meet the wishes of me 0 f his friends he had consented to , modification ofthe first resolution that resolution was drawn up in the usual \ m â€” instructing our senators and re aetting our representatives ; but there fere some gentlemen opposed to cau cusing who yet doubted the propriety of ibe legislature instructing our members of congress to meet their views he jas willing so to alter the resolution as to bring the question of caucus or not caucus fairly before the house of worse then such gentlemen as were opposed to the practice of caucusing at congress would vote for the resolutions while those in fovor of this usurpation of the rights of the people would vote against them with these explanations mr f said he would proceed to consider he subject when our forefathers came out of the evolutionary war they had but half ac omplished the great objects for which hey had gone into it ; they had fought he battles of liberty and broken the yoke foreign tyranny ; but it yet remained or them to secure in permanent insti utions the principles and rights for finch they had so profusely shed their loori this was not an ordinary work ; required time wisdom and patriotism > accomplish it ; and we see it was not nti after seven years of trial that our overnment was fixed on a firm basis by ip adoption ofthe federal constitution his constitution has now been in a!o foreign news latest from europe by the packet ship howard captain holdridge at new-york from havre files of the paris papers to the 16th of janua ry containing london dates to the 12th have been received the following sum mary and extracts copied from the com mercial advertiser embrace every item interest.h f designs upon south america we have given below an aiticle from me london courier respecting a naval armament said to be fitting out by tho french government at brest with all pos sible expedition the editor of the cou rier more than hints that this expedition is destined to operate against s america the same letter which contains the foregoing information states th^t the french admiral recently returned to brest from the west indian station has declared that complete " anarchy exists in all the south american states ; but that altho there are to be found in the different provinces partizans of every dif ferent sect from royalists to republicans yet none advocate either the sovereignity of ferdinand or submission to spain this opinion coming from such a quar ter together with the speech of the american president is said to have great ly cooled the ardor of the party in the french cabinet disposed to assist spf in in regaining possession of those provin ces a te deum is also directed to be chaunted throughout spanish america and the indies the couiier francais ofthe 14th says " this decree can only be regarded as an actual form ; but it is worthy of remark that the spanish gov ernment while ii has the air of taking no account of the destruction of its power in countries which it still includes in its de crees has renounced its exclusive and rigorous principles by confirming a part of the officers and promotions granted under the constitutional regime several spanish officers who arrived at bordeaux are said to have been thrown in ice for 36 years ; it is the work of som the wisest heads and purest hearts tha er lived ; and if it is not undermined b e insidious encroachments of that subth hit of aristocracy which is ever on the irt to steal the power from the many give it to the few it will not fail to se re to our posterity the blessings of lib ly for ages to come this constitu m we have sworn to support ; and it il becomes us to raise our voice against to prison the king of spain has issued one of those silly and impolitic decrees relative to south america ery practice which goes to violate it mit or its letter such said mr f ! members of congress like members of this legislature are not always elected for their virtues and talents ; a combina tion of circumstances without regard to these qualifications sometimes place them in congress when there they are not less fallible than before elected ; nay if any difference they are more so for the very atmosphere of washington city seems to create a hungering after " loaves and fishes there are in every congress a greater or less number ofthe members seeking after preferment either for themselves or for their relations or friends it is known that at the session of 1820 not less than one-third of all the members were applicants to the cabinet for the offices created by the florida trea ty is it nol reasonable then to suppose that the man who will have the offices at his disposal can by holding out hopes operate on those who are so anxious to obtain preferment ? to shew that it is let us look to past experience and con sult the opinions of those more conver sant than we are with the way in which things are managed at washington mr taylor a distinguished citizen of virgi nia an uniform republican and one not unacquainted with the history of caucus ing in a speech delivered last summer says of congressional caucuses the mode of electing the president and vice president of the united states calls out loudly for amendment the present me thod is the result of intrigue sanctioned too by most of the members of congress ; a most palpable fraud upon the rights of suffrage the power of correcting this evil is vested in the neople if they will exercise it let tfiem discharge those members who uphold a presidential caucus and substitute those in their places who will use their utmost efforts to procure such amendments of the federal consti tution as will produce one uniform mode of elections by districts in each state throughout the union then and not till then will the government be adminis tered by a president and vice-president of their own choice one of the rea sons why i quote the opinion of this gen tleman is because he is of virginia and insider lo be the practice of holding menses bv members of congress foi ie nomination of presidents of the u tates the second article of the consti itiiin expressly prohibits members of con rcssfrom acting as electors what doe lis article mean ? does it intend mere to prohibit members of congress from earing the name of an elector ; or does not clearly intend to prohibit them from xcrcising the functions of an elector i fames are used for the purpose of con eying to the mind an idea of things ; wbich have so frequently been promulga ted during his imbecile reign bv ibis decree he abolishes what never existed in the colonies the constitutional system ; orders the inhabitants there to perform te deum to the almighty for the preser vation of his person and family ; disbands the imaginary constitutional militin ; sub presses the convents which the patriots had long ago done ; and finally declures it to be his royal pleasure that persons holding offices not created under the con stitution fof which none were in exis tence should retain them provided their conduc^^ac^io^rendere^then^inw thy.h , ft is not material what names yot ;, if the thing itself is the same : it i duties the functions of electors thai constitution forbids members ol ongress from exercising â€” no matter hether exercised in the electoral col e or in a caucus if what members congress do in caucus is virtually sercising the functions of electors it mows of course that they do the very ""% which by the constitution they are emitted not to do what is the object 1 a congressional caucus ? the friends f the measure themselves tell us that ie object is to induce the people to vote ir some one person as president who therwise might not be voted for and of otherwise would not be elec jjj now in this object they will either il or they will succeed if they fail en the caucus was useless and should t have been held ; but if they succeed jen does it not follow that they have ef lctl<ly succeeded in exercising the unions of electors in doing what the n stitution prohibits them from doing ? making a president for the people ? h s being their object now said mr f ould ask if ever a congressional cau ls has failed in its object ? it never has 1 1816 after much management a cau us was got up at congress out of all j e members of congress 119 only at nded ; the rest being opposed to it ; of : 0se w ho attended 65 voted for mr j on roe and 54 for mr crawford mr oÂ»roe having a majority of the caucus ns favor he went forth as the nomi e d candidate and accordingly was elec it will be objected to the election go ing into the house of representatives that a minority of the people will be able to elect the president in reply to this it may be said that it is not likely that such a combination will ever take place be tween the small states ; but even if it does no danger can follow when it is con sidered that the election must be made from one of the three highest of the can didates voted for by the people london jan 1 1 an opinion has recently gone abroad both in paris and in london that the south americans will be allowed the op tion of purchasing their independence in hard cash there is some novelty in tho transaction even as a matter of political speculation it would appear even to bear its own failure on the face of it when the metropolitan power descends to bargain away its authority in this man ner it may be fairly presumed that it de spairs of obtaining any thing by the force of arms and what attention are the col lonies likely to pay to a power so redu ced but even admitting that caucusing by members of congress is not a violation of the constitution or does not usurp the rights of the people yet it is improper on another ground by the constitution in the event the people make no election then the choice is to be made by the house of representatives voting by states it is certainly highly improper then for the members to prejudge the case by going into caucus and solemnly binding themselves to support this or that candidate they go into caucus and vote for a president ; they return home and at the election for electors vete a second time for their man ; they go back to con gress and in the house of representa tives vote a third time ; so that they have three chances while the people have but one when the people elect members of congress it is with a view to legislation ; when they choose electors it is with an eye to the president : hence the people in the electoral college are represented ; but in the caucus they are not but sup pose the members do carry into the cau cus the wishes and feelings of their con stituents the first thing they do is solemnly to bind themselves to support the man who receives the most votes though he may be one of all others most obnoxious to the people again we will be told that we ought now to sanction a caucus because caucuses have heretofore been held the force of this argument is because members of congress have heretofore done wrong we must justify them in repeating the wtong thus precedent is becoming law ; but it is to be hoped the people of the u states will put a stop to it before it becomes as irrevocable as the laws of media and per greeks and turks a passenger in the marcellus arrived here yesterday from gibraltar which he left the 20th ult states that intelligence had been received at that place the day preceding of important successes obtain ed by the greeks the greeks continued to capture all turkish vessels several of which richly laden had fallen into their hands accounts from constantinople of the 10th december acknowledge that the fleet wbich the captain pacha had brought back with him amounted to only fifteen vessels which were in a ** bad condition this had caused a number of meetings of the divan which had given rise to sever mt f further observed,ubat he could readily anticipate many of the arguments that would be brought forward in defence of the congressional caucuses one of

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western carolinian no 197 vol iv salisbury n c tuesday march 16 1824 printed bvphilo white blis!te ,. 0 f tlie laws of the united states . terms of the western carolinian will after be as follows : three dollars a year in advance fiwrtisements will be inserted at fifty cents jarare for the first insertion and twenty-five k for each subsequent one all letters addressed to the editor must be paid or they will not be attended to ted now will any person contend that mr crawford would not at this moment have been president if he had succeeded in the caucus ? but as anxious as that gentleman and his friends were to make him president they gave up all hopes as soon as they failed in the caucus in fact as soon as mr monroe was nominated by the caucus his election was considered secure and all further opposition ceased and when the people of north carolina were called upon to vote for the electors they considered it so much of a farce that not more than one vote in ten was given in ; they felt that it was unneces sary to spend their time in going to the polls to vote when the caucus had alrea dy decided the election is it not plain then that members of congress by means of these caucuses do indirectly what by the constitution they are inhibi ted from doing directly ? it is certain then that the constitution of the united states prohibits members of congress from acting as electors ; and it is equally clear that the intention of that instrument is to exclude them from any agency what ever in electing the president except in the event of no election by the people now let us enquire what are the reasons of this prohibition ? madison jay and hamilton in a work that will remain a standard as long as the constitution lasts inform us that the reason of this inhibi tion was to guard against " cabal intrigue and corruption the framers of the constitution were wise men ; they knew the depravity of the human heart they had seen in the history of our govern ment to what lengths ambition would lead men ; that many had waded through corruption and blood to reach their object they knew that the presidency of this great republic was a prize at which men of the greatest talents and most inurdi nate ambition might aim ; and it was to be feared that some of these would stop at nothing to gain it to guard against such men on such occasions it was tho't wiser and safer to confide the election to the people than to intrust it to a jire-ex isvng body of men the people at the same time throughout lhe union vote for electors â€” these electors are thus created as it were in one day ; and before they could possibly be corrupted they have convened executed their trust and dis pciacj again . oo mat mere is nu puaai ble chance of corrupting them but is this the case with members of con gress ? they are elected nearly two years before hand ; and for a considera ble part of that time are on the spot at washington where the intrigue and man agement is going on : they are a tangi ble pre-established body and are subject to be operated on by the arts and manage ment of the candidates who are also gen erally on the spot there are some in this house who will es teem them the more on that account them would be that they were necessary to prevent the election from going into the house of representatives ; for if it goes into the house the choice will go by states â€” each state giving but one vote ai first appearance this is a plausible ar gument but it will not bear examination the federal constitution it most be kept in view is a work of compromise when the members from the different states met in convention to form a new consti tution they soon found that it was a work of immense difficulty so conflicting were the feelings interests and views of the several states vve are told that at one time they were on the point of breaking up and returning home without having come to any conclusions : but inspired by the spirit of patriotism they renewed their labors each section of the coun try gave up some of its views in order to gain other ; and thus by mutual compro mise they formed the federal constitu tion which never would have been form ed on any other principles mr f said he would very briefly notice three of the principles of compromise adopted in the constitution the first was that the small states should be protected from the overwhelming influence of the great onesi by being admitted to an equal weight in the senate without a concession of this kind in their favor the small states would never have gone into the union the next compromise was in favor of the southern states â€” the partial representa tion of our slave population by which we gain one-third of our weight in the house of representatives the southern states never would have adopted the constitution without some provision of this nature the third principle of compromise is in tended further to operate in favor of the small states ; it is when the nation fails to elect tbe president that thgn the elec tion shall be made by the states each giv ing one vole mr maduon in his re marks in the virginia convention speaks of this part ofthe constitution as an im portant compromise designed to concili ate the small states this then is a compromise and the avowed object of a caticus is to defeat this provision of the constitution heretofore caucuses were against party â€” now th accomplish it ; and we see it was not nti after seven years of trial that our overnment was fixed on a firm basis by ip adoption ofthe federal constitution his constitution has now been in a!o foreign news latest from europe by the packet ship howard captain holdridge at new-york from havre files of the paris papers to the 16th of janua ry containing london dates to the 12th have been received the following sum mary and extracts copied from the com mercial advertiser embrace every item interest.h f designs upon south america we have given below an aiticle from me london courier respecting a naval armament said to be fitting out by tho french government at brest with all pos sible expedition the editor of the cou rier more than hints that this expedition is destined to operate against s america the same letter which contains the foregoing information states th^t the french admiral recently returned to brest from the west indian station has declared that complete " anarchy exists in all the south american states ; but that altho there are to be found in the different provinces partizans of every dif ferent sect from royalists to republicans yet none advocate either the sovereignity of ferdinand or submission to spain this opinion coming from such a quar ter together with the speech of the american president is said to have great ly cooled the ardor of the party in the french cabinet disposed to assist spf in in regaining possession of those provin ces a te deum is also directed to be chaunted throughout spanish america and the indies the couiier francais ofthe 14th says " this decree can only be regarded as an actual form ; but it is worthy of remark that the spanish gov ernment while ii has the air of taking no account of the destruction of its power in countries which it still includes in its de crees has renounced its exclusive and rigorous principles by confirming a part of the officers and promotions granted under the constitutional regime several spanish officers who arrived at bordeaux are said to have been thrown in ice for 36 years ; it is the work of som the wisest heads and purest hearts tha er lived ; and if it is not undermined b e insidious encroachments of that subth hit of aristocracy which is ever on the irt to steal the power from the many give it to the few it will not fail to se re to our posterity the blessings of lib ly for ages to come this constitu m we have sworn to support ; and it il becomes us to raise our voice against to prison the king of spain has issued one of those silly and impolitic decrees relative to south america ery practice which goes to violate it mit or its letter such said mr f ! members of congress like members of this legislature are not always elected for their virtues and talents ; a combina tion of circumstances without regard to these qualifications sometimes place them in congress when there they are not less fallible than before elected ; nay if any difference they are more so for the very atmosphere of washington city seems to create a hungering after " loaves and fishes there are in every congress a greater or less number ofthe members seeking after preferment either for themselves or for their relations or friends it is known that at the session of 1820 not less than one-third of all the members were applicants to the cabinet for the offices created by the florida trea ty is it nol reasonable then to suppose that the man who will have the offices at his disposal can by holding out hopes operate on those who are so anxious to obtain preferment ? to shew that it is let us look to past experience and con sult the opinions of those more conver sant than we are with the way in which things are managed at washington mr taylor a distinguished citizen of virgi nia an uniform republican and one not unacquainted with the history of caucus ing in a speech delivered last summer says of congressional caucuses the mode of electing the president and vice president of the united states calls out loudly for amendment the present me thod is the result of intrigue sanctioned too by most of the members of congress ; a most palpable fraud upon the rights of suffrage the power of correcting this evil is vested in the neople if they will exercise it let tfiem discharge those members who uphold a presidential caucus and substitute those in their places who will use their utmost efforts to procure such amendments of the federal consti tution as will produce one uniform mode of elections by districts in each state throughout the union then and not till then will the government be adminis tered by a president and vice-president of their own choice one of the rea sons why i quote the opinion of this gen tleman is because he is of virginia and insider lo be the practice of holding menses bv members of congress foi ie nomination of presidents of the u tates the second article of the consti itiiin expressly prohibits members of con rcssfrom acting as electors what doe lis article mean ? does it intend mere to prohibit members of congress from earing the name of an elector ; or does not clearly intend to prohibit them from xcrcising the functions of an elector i fames are used for the purpose of con eying to the mind an idea of things ; wbich have so frequently been promulga ted during his imbecile reign bv ibis decree he abolishes what never existed in the colonies the constitutional system ; orders the inhabitants there to perform te deum to the almighty for the preser vation of his person and family ; disbands the imaginary constitutional militin ; sub presses the convents which the patriots had long ago done ; and finally declures it to be his royal pleasure that persons holding offices not created under the con stitution fof which none were in exis tence should retain them provided their conduc^^ac^io^rendere^then^inw thy.h , ft is not material what names yot ;, if the thing itself is the same : it i duties the functions of electors thai constitution forbids members ol ongress from exercising â€” no matter hether exercised in the electoral col e or in a caucus if what members congress do in caucus is virtually sercising the functions of electors it mows of course that they do the very ""% which by the constitution they are emitted not to do what is the object 1 a congressional caucus ? the friends f the measure themselves tell us that ie object is to induce the people to vote ir some one person as president who therwise might not be voted for and of otherwise would not be elec jjj now in this object they will either il or they will succeed if they fail en the caucus was useless and should t have been held ; but if they succeed jen does it not follow that they have ef lctl