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Topic : 03/03 Teens and Sex with Bishop T.D. Jakes

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Created on : Friday, February 29, 2008, 01:14:31 pm

Author : DrPhilBoard1

Should schools be allowed to pass out birth control to students? Should teens be forced to take vows of purity? Dr. Phil and Bishop T.D. Jakes, author of Reposition Yourself, tackle these and other controversial issues. First up, Ed is an abstinence educator who believes the only safe sex for teens is no sex. But 21-year-old Shelby calls Ed’s tactics “dangerous” and says kids need sex education in schools to stop teen pregnancy. Are abstinence-only programs effective? See what Dr. Phil and the Bishop think. Then, Lisette says if she had had access to birth control when she was 12 years old, she wouldn't have had a baby at 13. Is her school to blame for not handing out birth control? What’s right for your child? Plus, is it realistic for teens to live by purity pledges until they get married? A sexually active 14-year-old and an 18-year-old virgin face off on this touchy topic. And, another issue making the headlines is: Should pregnant teens be given maternity leave? Dr. Lisa Masterson, an OB-GYN and member of The Doctors, shares her views, join the discussion and share your views too!

As of January, 2009, this message board will become "Read Only" and will be closed to further posting. Please join the NEW Dr. Phil Community to continue your discussions, personalize your message board experience, start a blog and meet new friends.

SELF WORTH - SELF IMAGE - EMOTIONAL MATURITY - PROMISCUITY

Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) is a psychological disorder characterized by pervasive instability in self-image, behavior, moods, and interpersonal relationships.This instability often disrupts family and work life, long-term planning, and the individual's sense of self-identity.

While less known than schizophrenia or bipolar disorder (manic-depressive illness), BPD is more common, affecting 2% of adults (1-33), mostly females. Some of my favorite books that provide a great introduction and insight are:

Why is it Always About You? The Seven Deadly Sins of Narcissism by Sandy Hotchkiss ANDEmotional Blackmail: When the People in Your Life Use Fear, Obligation and Guilt to Manipulate You by Susan Forward

Get Me Out of Here:My Recovery from Borderline Personality Disorder by Rachel Reiland OR Girl Interrupted by Susanna Kaysen OR Stop Walking on Eggshells:Taking Your Life Back...by Paul Mason and Randi Kreger

Understanding the Borderline (Parent) Mother: Helping Her Children Transcend the Intense, Unpredictable and Volatile Relationship by Christine Ann Lawson OR Surviving a Borderline Parent: How to Heal Your Childhood Wounds & Build Trust, Boundaries and Self-Esteem by Kimberlee Roth and Freda Friedman

How to Journal for Therapy:

http://arar.essortment.com/therapyjournali_repu.htm

Healing Anxiety and Depression (7 types of anxiety and depression) by Daniel Amen and Lisa Routh OR Getting Help: The Complete and Authoritative Guide to Self-Assessment and Treatment of Mental Health Problems by Jeffrey Wood

Some of the story is typical:feelings of insecurity contributing to destructive behaviors such as promiscuity, manipulations, self-abuse, rage attacks, revenge, addictions, and eating disorders. The extreme behaviors of BPD constitute the high drama in the stories of those who endure its ravages.

03/03 Teens and Sex with Bishop T.D. Jakes

Now, let's keep in mind this is just one person's opinion.My views on sex, and they are the same views I taught my children, are quite basic, it is a natural, normal occurance, like ALL MAMMALS it is our way of reproducing and passing our genes onto the next generation, there is nothing spiritual or devine about it . However unlike other Mammals with the exception of certain species of primates, sex for us is pleasurable, and those feelings are NOTHING to be ashamed of, masturbation again nothing to be ashamed of preferable to an unwanted pregnancy or STD.That said, I have also taught them to be RESPONSIBLE for their own sexuality, the thing is I CANNOT and WILL NOT chose for them when they will be ready to have sex, that is not for me to chose, so FORCING a pledge of abstinence on ANYONE will only cause shame and guilt for a NATURAL act in someone who might just give into the heat of passion, it can and does happen.Virginity until marriage, it can be done, and if it TRULY what you belive is RIGHT FOR YOU (not because the church said so or your parents say so, but for yourself ) then tha's what's right for YOU, it dosen't mean that someone else is evil or BAD for not waiting, it just wasn't right for them.Abstinence should be taught, it is a viable option, but what's the best way to get teens to do something ? C'mon parents of Adults, and teens we know the answer, tell them simply "DON'T DO IT " or make is something taboo wrapped and shrouded like some sacred mystery, best way to get them sneaking around, Armed with the information to prevent pregnancy and STD's and with the information about the feelings that may or may not be involved in the act. They should learn about their bodies and how they work, that "Pulling Out" is NOT a reasonable form of Birth Control, and that if he refuses to use a condom, then "No glove No love", then he dosen't really care about your health or feelings, and NEEDS to be dumped (BEFORE having sex) and we have to let our daughters know that's okay to DEMAND he use one and if not the answer is 'NO" and MEAN IT. I always found it handy (my father did this, and I do it ) to make sure my daughter has either cab fare or Bus Fare, that way if the young man is being a complete JERK, she simply calls a cab and LEAVES the situation, she has done it.I have taught both my boys, that you NEVER BELIVE a girl when she says "Its okay I'm on the pill ", see I'm a BIG beliver that boys should be held accountable for their actions in this regard as well, and lets face it, not all girls are the correct paragons of honesty and innocence many would like to think, YOU take percautions yourself, if not to prevent pregnancy then to prevent STD's and please, I am sick and tired of hearing that boys and men have no control over their penis' or their sexuality, they do, and yes for boys too, 'No means NO".Condoms in the schools I agree with, access to Birth Control I agree with, and I agree wholeheartedly with the poster (sorry, forgot your name :( ) who said girls should ALSO be taught about yearly Pap tests and pelvic exams when they become sexually active,actually BEFORE they become sexually active so they can be Pro-active in managing their own sexual health, and the health of any sexual partners they might have.But again, this is a personal CHOICE that NO ONE can make for an individual, they must make that determination for themselves, but as parents and educators, we NEED to arm them with the ability to make an INFORMED decision on what is right for them, and we must remember, that your teen may NOT share your beliefs, they are individuals separate from you, they need to be informed and you'd be surprised at how the right information for some has the desired effect, and even if they decide to have sex, they can do it in an informed way, and protect themselves.

Teens and Sex

"WHAT IS WRONG WITH PARENTS"

DR. PHIL has sad it many times "YOU PARENT YOUR CHILD"

If you don't inject yourself in their lives you will have no control as to what they do and what they have learned from you. Preach to your child so much that when in the heat of the moment they hear your voice and your words and they listen. If they don't and you know they are sexually active and will continue "THEN YOU MAKE THAT PARENT JUDGEMENT CALL, THAT SHOULD ONLY BE YOURS TO MAKE" and decide what should be done because you know your own child and your intuition.

"THE ONLY SHOW DR. PHIL SHOULD HAVE IS "WHY AREN'T THESE PARENTS PLUGGED IN"

Parents need to be the responsible ones and quit turning a deaf ear saying OH NO NOT MY CHILD

"YOUR CHILD IS AN EMPTY SLATE, AND WHAT YOU WRITE ON IT IS FOR LIFE

YOU DON'T GET A SECOND CHANCE"

Get real people and listen to Dr. Phil

I took his advice and straight out looked my daughter in the eyes and asked her if she was sexaully active, at first she of course lied, she also knew I wouldn't ask if I didn't suspect it. So I asked her again a couple days later and got the honest answer. And we are discussing this issue rationally.

Preteens & Sex

There is a big problem with sex in our society today. It has gone from being something special to just something that is done daily to fulfill physical needs. It is really sad and it will only get worse. I have opinions on how society got this way but those opinions are biased, and therefore; I will not state them here.

In this situation, I believe that the US has a bigger problem where people do not know the difference between lust and love. Somehow, these two totally different terms have somehow integrated themselves. It has created an unstable and empty society. People do not understand that the type of love that constitutes someone getting married includes being gracious, merciful, and understanding of the other person. The willingness to accept that other person NO MATTER WHAT! This includes weight issues, health issues, stinky feet, snoring, insanity, deformities, etc, etc. There are acceptions to this including people that are violent and do not know how to communicate with their spouses. Someone in an abusive relationship should leave with no questions asked.

Lust is purely the desire to be physically intimate with another person without knowing him/her. I am not going to make an opinion on this, as well, but I feel that psychologists have got to learn that there is a distinction and can affect how a marriage will go in the future.

I think that sex ed should not be a health class but a science class. I think that the kids should have a chance to understand how the body works and how these urges occur in a scientific manner. The social aspects of sex, love, and marriage should be addressed by Mom and Dad. If the child is afraid to ask Mom & Dad, he/she should see the school nurse. It is less embarrassing. This includes discussions about condoms and abstinence. And teenage pregnancies being up are only because they are exposed. Sex ed has not reduced the number of pregnancies. It is just making the desire to have sex even stronger. Think about when you were a kid and how you felt when you learned about sex. After a class like that, you wanted to try it, right?

In my opinion, sex ed being approached as a science class vs. a lifestyle class would make it less enticing and more educational. Also, it would give women more information to know when something is wrong like endometriosis, fibroids, and breast cancer. Or, guys with prostate problems. The class could also address contraceptives in this class based solely on the scientific theories behind them. It is interesting that everyone tries to fight the abstinence thing when, in fact; it is the only way not to get pregnant or get a disease. People are so busy trying to fight Judeo-Christians that they cannot see that teaching a child that if they don't do it, they will not get pregnant or get a disease.

Another thing that should be taught to children is that sex is a personal violation of your body. The question would be...are you willing to let this other person violate you for a few hours? If you are in love with the person, then the answer is yes because you know that the other person respects you. So this violation becomes a joining of two people. If it is in lust, it is a pure violation and that is what makes it feel so dirty the next day. Many kids encounter #2 when they have sex under the age of 17.

No one seems to want to address that...and THAT has NOTHING TO DO with being a Christian or a strict Jewish person. It has to do with giving children the ability to respect their bodies and to have enough self-esteem to know that an inappropriate violation of the body is not going to help them. If sex ed is to stay as a health/lifestyle class, then this should be addressed and this will make the students think twice before having sex. It will not be 100% effective but it might address another 20% of the teenage population.

In terms of condoms working, I have a friend that had a child at the age of 16. The condom broke during the act...so, condoms do not always work.

03/03 Teens and Sex with Bishop T.D. Jakes

I agree. Church has nothing to do with it, what you say to your kids have nothing to do with it. Teens are going to have sex. That's the way the world is. You can't stop them. You only make them want to do it more if you try to stop them. It's a simple concept called rebellion.

What you can do is teach them on how to protect themselves. If any future child of mine were to have sex, I would rather them do it protected. I totally agree with Dr. Phil. They are going to do it, and they are either going to do it with or without protection, I'd give them a whole box.

Denying that teens are going to have sex, or saying that they won't have sex if you force church or your own views on them is, I'm going to put it bluntly, very, very naive.

I know this for a fact because that is exactly what happened with my sister and my cousin, and my high school best friend. My best friend had a very religious family, she went to church, read the bible, had a baby at 15...

My cousin ended up pregnant with her first child because her parents believed that she would follow God and abstain, and that God would prevent her from becoming pregnant until it was the right time in her life, then freaked out when she brought them the news that she was pregnant.

My sister and I were brought up going to church very often, guess what happened? She and I both rejected the views of our parents because we wanted to be able to make our own. I've chosen to be Buddhist, she chose to find God in her own way, but before she did, she would sneak out and fool around with guys, she even went as far as Davis to mess around with a guy she was keeping secret from my mom, and then she started dating someone she met on the internet when she was 17. She ended up pregnant when she was 18, had my niece when she was 19.

Church and the views of parents do not, and usually will not, unless they have been brainwashed to it since childhood, make a difference in the sexual choices of teenagers. They are, and have been, having sex regardless of religious or parental background. Which is why it is a good, even downright sensible idea to give them protection. All three of the people I mentioned would not have been teen mothers had they been given protection and been taught not about abstinence, but about protection. I learned from them, my boyfriend and I won't even think about doing it unless we have protection. We have lots of condoms and I'm on the pill, and we've made the effort to find information on what forms are effective and what are not.

You cannot force a teenager to not have sex until marriage, but you can give them incentive to protect themselves.

03/03 Teens and Sex with Bishop T.D. Jakes

I have been very honest with my daughters about sex. I told them that they should wait until they were mature enough to deal with the changes that take place when you start having sex. Your life completely changes. And when they believe it is time, talk to me and we will discuss it and do what needs to be done. My oldest is 24, made it through high school still a virgin, which made me happy. At 18, she was in college and on her own. I feel that at that point if I had done my job right, she would make good decisions. And she did. She came to me and we went for birth controll but also talked, again, about "safe sex" and using a condom in addition to the pill. Her best friend did end up pregnant at 19 and unmarried. My daughter has finished college and is on her way to a career in law enforcement. I am trying to be as honest with my 13 yr old and give her as much information to allow her to make informed decsions. My best advise to parents is don't freak out! If you do, they will never come to you again. You also have to be realistic.

When you point your finger at others you have three pointing back at you.

I have an extremely religious stepdtr. who pledged abstinence long ago at her church, and it was never a problem because she never dated. She is now nearly 30yrs old and is engaged to be married and the abstinence that she is sticking to has created the most dysfunctional relationship I have ever heard of. She and her fiance are only allowed to be alone on the rare occasions when she allows him to pick her up to go to bible study or to his parent's or her mother's houses because her house is on his way to those-otherwise she meets him driving her own car and allows these outings to be only to restaurants etc where there are other people surrounding them. He cannot enter her home. All of this is because of the threat/fear of "physical temptation" and they at one time were going to step up their wedding to get married as soon as possible to get around all this and be able to have sex! (thankfully, his parents stopped that nonsense) They don't even know each other because she won't allow them to spend time one on one alone. They are setting themselves up for failure in their marriage through lack of communication and not learning about one another, all because she promised abstinence at her church and the church put fear into her about being alone with a man. She truly believes that sex is the only thing men and women do when they are alone together and has a morbid fear of "physical temptation". You are probably wondering what guy would go along with this....he has a drug and alcohol past that he thinks church is the cure for and she and bible study keep him out of the bars and away from the parties. (which adds in his side of the dysfunctional) I think that people have every right to make the choice of abstinence until marriage, but I think it is very damaging that they carry it so far that their relationship is totally dysfunctional and they go into marriage not knowing one another.

You are the one with the dysfunctional thinking.

All people are tempted...even people in the Church. Smart people avoid putting themselves in situations where temptation meets opportunity. We don't allow child molesters to operate day care centers. We don't put winos in charge of the wine cellar or drug addicts in charge of pharmacies. Being alone provides an opportunity that doesn't exist in public settings. Knowing full well they are tempted they are intelligently and intentionally avoiding opportunities. What is wrong with that? It is the people who think they are strong who fall. I've seen it happen over and over. A persons brags, "I'd never do that." And before you know it they are doing it because they put themselves in situations of opportunity. Your ignorance about human nature makes you easy prey for failure.

Who are you to tell them their relationship is dysfunctional? They're doing good and you call it dysfunctional. Your thinking is the problem not their behavior.

Why can't they "get to know" each other when others are around? It's not impossible you know. It sounds like you are trying to goad them into doing things that will lead to failure. There is no law that says people who date MUST BE ALONE. Where did you ever get an idiotic idea like that?

I doubt that she thinks sex is the only thing people do when alone. I think you are making things like this up just to make it seem bad if people choose a different way of living than you.

I doubt if the boyfriend thinks his Church is the cure for his problems. Most people attribute their strength to abstain from drugs to God, not the Church. The Church merely supports him (as should you)...it doesn't cure him.

You are trying to justify immoral sex by painting sexual purity and righteous as evil. You're one of the people the Bible talks about who calls "good evil and evil good." Abstinece until married isn't "fear" it is rational, intelligent behavior that should be exalted, not reviled. It is sexual immorality that calls for fear. Think about it...STD's, teenage pregnancy, children being raised in one parent homes, children being murdered before they are born, etc.

She is doing the right thing. Either encourage her and praise her for her wonderful choices or keep your big nose out of it.

Let's be real?!

Where are our parents? We talk to our kids once and tell them not to have sex. Then we tell them but hey if you do use protection. That's giving them a way out, a detour. Do any of us really think a 13 yr old is ready to make that decision...they aren't. They are looking for direction and the parents need to talk with them. Teach them to value their bodies, their spirit and respect themselves. Fathers and mothers let's show our daughters they deserve more than a "quickie". Even if we go along and give out all the condoms it doesn't mean they will be used or correctly and it doesn't protect your child from STDs or the emotional scars. Remember what our Dr. Phil has said, Their brains are not yet fully developed. Come on, where are protecting them if we just say go for it?? And as fas as the purtiy rings...this is to help provide them with a visual reminder of what promise they made to themselves, to God and to their parents...kind of like accountablility. Sorry for the sarcasm I just think we need to understand that if we only hand out condoms and focus on that we are not addresses many of the other issues which are so much bigger. I'm talking about the emotional and physical (std's) scars.

03/03 Teens and Sex with Bishop T.D. Jakes

They are not the "school's" children. They are not the psychologist's children. They are not the teacher's children. They are not the government's children. They are our children.

Passing out birth control not only promotes, it aids and abets sexual immorality and usurps the authority of the child's parents to instill their values in their children. Bad behavior doesn't decrease when it is subsidized and accepted as normal, it increases. It only decreases when it is stigmatized. Peer pressure can be just as much a tool for the promotion of good behavior as it can for bad behavior. Holding people accountable and fully responsible for bad behavior is powerful motivation for people to abstain from bad behavior. When evil is exalted evil becomes rampant. When evil is demonized evil becomes rare.

Buying condoms for teenagers who are sexually immoral does nothing to encourage abstinence. Rather it supports their sexual immorality. Condoms are cheap and readily available. If sexually active teens wanted to use them they would buy them. They have them in men's restrooms all over the place and they are cheap. They are in every drug store and many department stores. They are not having sex without them because they are expensive or unavailable...so what is the purpose of passing them out at school?

Are they embarrassed to buy them at a drug store? Then why aren't they embarrassed to ask for them at school? They can purchase them at most gas stations in the restroom without any embarrassment at all. Is 50 cents or a dollar beyond their budget? They wear 100 dollar shoes, have cell phones, ipods, cars, bank accounts, jobs, video games, etc. but they cannot afford to purchase a condom? Come on! Get real!

Godless outsiders are not only trying to indoctrinate our children with their godless immorality they are trying to force us into letting them teach it to our children and make us subsidize it, and we object. They are not your children, they're ours.

Godless outsiders are trying to promote, aid and abet teenage sex by giving them condoms and birth control without our approval and we object. They are our children, not yours.

Condoms are not safe no matter how many times you claim they are. Only asbstinence is 100% safe 100% of the time. Using condoms for sex is like playing Russian roulette. Keep playing and eventually you will reap the devastating consequences. To tell a child that condoms are safe is like telling a child an "unloaded" gun is safe. Condom promotion makes a child feel there will be no consequences if they are used consistently and anyone who is honest knows that ain't so. They leak, break and slip off. In spite of condom pusher's adamant assurances that condoms make sex safe they know they don't. It is a myth promoted by godless people who make up lies to win the argument. They really don't care about the tragic consequences of the lives of people who were destroyed because they foolshly believed them.

Untold numbers of unborn babies will be slaughtered because teens believed condoms are safe. Untold numbers of girls will become pregnant because they believed condoms are safe. Untold numbers of boys will get a girl pregnant because they were told condoms are safe. Untold numbers of teens will get STD's because liars told them condoms make sex safe. But where will these condom pushing liars be when teens become victims of their lies...in their ivory towers spouting the same old crap.

Some condom pushers will give you a ride to a baby killing facility to help you murder your unborn child...that is what they do best...destroy people. Will they support your choice to raise your child...will they pay your rent, doctor bills, utilities, hospital bills, food, clothing, etc.? No, not personally. But they will make sure the government robs poor working slobs who are struggling to make a decent living and life for their own families. The elites don't want to personally pay for the consequences of their advise, they prefer to force others to do it.

Dr. Phil ought to be required by law to support every child conceived as a result of condom failure by those who believed his "condoms make sex safe" advise. He ought to pay all medical and hospital expenses of everyone who got an STD or AIDS as a result of condom failure. Step up to the plate Dr. Phil. Put you money where your mouth is. If someone believes you and starts having sex with condoms and the condom fails and they get pregnant or STD's you need to do the right thing and take full responsibility for your "expert" advise.

What about the rest of you condom pushers? Are you gonna step up to the plate when people reap the devastating consequences of following your advise?

Abstinence pushers are willing to step up to the plate if anyone gets pregnant or an STD as a result of abstinence.

Condom pushers will never voluntarily step up to the plate and take full financial responsibility for the lives they devastate with their lies. They prefer to force everyone else to pay for the consequences of their advise. Drugs, cigarettes, alcohol, sexual immorality, etc. They don't want moral people to tell anyone how to live. They fight to make sure everyone is free to do whatever is right in their own eyes and when the immoral reap the consequences of their immoral choices, they dump the burden on the hardworking middle class by increasing their taxes. It's risk free for the elite. It's a win-win for immoral people who do evil and only a lose-lose for moral, hard working, taxpaying families.

Education is a must, birth control is the key. I have three grown children who, when under the age of 21, liked to drink and thought it was cool to sneak around and not get caught. When they became legal, and responsible, took the fun out of it. Birth control would have the same effect. We need to take resonsibility for our underage children!!! We put them in seatbelts to protect them from a deadly crash, we get them all their shots to protect them from worldly diseases, we make them eat all their vegetables even though they don't like to eat them, but we won't give them birth control???????? I don't get it!!! Some people believe that if you give them birth control, you are giving them permission to "do it" ? They have been "doing it" already, you just don't know it!!!! A baby affects the REST OF THEIR LIFE!!!! We could talk about the national debt we pay to unwed mothers but that would take too long. MANDATORY BIRTH CONTROL before the age of 21!!