Zalan:I was watching MSNBC when this happened, when everyone else is reporting what the reading was, they had people speed reading through the actual decision to see what it said so they wouldn't have a Dewey defeats Truman moment.

Zalan:I was watching MSNBC when this happened, when everyone else is reporting what the reading was, they had people speed reading through the actual decision to see what it said so they wouldn't have a Dewey defeats Truman moment.

Don't most of us just start flipping around when something like this comes up? I guess going back and forth between CNN and FN you'd still be screwed but our channels go msnbc, CNN, HLN and FN in order plus there's the local CBS and ABC affiliates.

I can't be the only one who does this. And kudos to msnbc on this one. Should be SOP now.

The SCOTUS did rule the individual mandate unconstitutional under the commerce clause, which is what the Dems said authorized it. What makes it Constitutional is the fact that it's a tax if you don't have insurance, which is what President Obama said it wasn't.

So the Dems won a victory on the law, but the door of using the commerce clause to compel commerce remains closed. Sort of. That has to be one of the more tightrope walks of a decision I've seen. That may seem like nitpicking, but we are talking about the law. It's all nitpicking.

caramba421:milominderbinder:You (and idiots like you) actually think this is sustainable? Really? Please to see the NUMEROUS examples of socialist medicine falling into ruin around the world as to why this does not work.

What a farking joke. You actually believe that the US has the only adequate healthcare system in the world. That's cute.

FACT: The US pays more per capita and per GDP on healthcare by a large margin than any other country.

FACT: Administrative costs in the US healthcare system, most of which are Billing and Coding, dwarf those of all other countries.

FACT: The US has among the worst ratio of gross medical expenditures vs. amount spent on patient care anywhere in the world.

FACT: Medical bills account for most bankruptcies in the us.

Your whole line about "the rule of law has been destroyed" is so farking tired. For real. It's like people like you encounter any law that is slightly offensive to your sensibilities, you start in with this sky-is-falling bullshiat. Enough. Man the fark up already and pay your farking taxes and quit biatching, like the rest of the civilized people in the world.

Also, we get much less bang for our buck: From a pure cost-benefit perspective, we're paying much more to life less. Our cost per capita is soaring, but our life expectancy and quality of life are declining, in comparison to other top wealthy nations of the world. Put simply, whatever we're doing, we're clearly doing it wrong. Or at least wronger than those other countries.

I work with public records, and many foreclosures I see are preceded by judgment liens -- people lose their homes because they have trouble settling debts. What are those debts? Some are what you'd expect -- credit cards and the like. But the vast majority originate with medical bills. I'm pretty sure we're the only country in the world with mostly paved roads where people can lose their homes for getting sick.

Isn't it always in the interest of the insurers and what have you to pay the least amount as possible. Once they have your premiums... why would they willingly tolerate an expense without first exercising every possible avenue for withholding coverage. How can anyone think this is desirable state of things?

Shrugging Atlas:It really is remarkable how farking bad CNN has become. Every single facet of it. The anchors/personalities, the programming lineup. I mean even their website is a farking trainwreck.

Look at this crap from 'This Just In' section where the bulk of the 'news' they cover can be found on the main page. It's just rows of hyperlinks on unrelated subjects. I mean look at this pile of fail on their right now:

Why Fareed Zakaria has a show on there (granted one buried at a horrible timeslot one day a week) is beyond me.

Dear mother of God, this.

Was visiting friends (including one from Germany) a year or three back when the Great Tohoku Earthquake hit Japan...and the comment had come up earlier that "Here in America, if we want to find out real news, we hit either the Daily Show and Colbert Report or we go to international media such as the BBC and Deutsche Welle and the Australian ABC". They were a little surprised and puzzled at first why Americans would rely on comedy shows and international state broadcasters for their news.

About three hours into trying to find ANY info on American news media about the Tohoku quake that DIDN'T go into the latest news on (INSERT CELEBRITY HERE) within about five minutes, they understood. Boy, did they understand. The actual comment was made to the effect that German tabloid media might actually report more news than the US media does O_o (It's pretty farking sad that pretty much the best media outlet to watch re the quake...was, up until the announcement of OMFG MELTDOWN, the goddamn Weather Channel for crying out loud. And of course the Weather Channel has now turned into the Search And Rescue Channel, that is, when it's not being the Blue-Collar Major Project Construction Channel, The "Let's See What TV Show We Can Make In Alaska And/Or The Northwest Territories of Canada" Channel, Or The General Stormgasm Channel (the latter being one of the rare precious times that they actually show anything resembling weather coverage when most of Dixie Alley isn't being actively hoovered--and THAT normally only when they have Stormgasm Reporters on the spot...will say it before, will say it again...Jim Cantore shows up to your town, just leave, just walk away, because it's gonna be gone soon enough)...so Gods only knows if they'd deign to show coverage when (say) Cascadia blows. Might have to rely on the Canadian coverage through CBC or (gods forbid) the Weather Network...

daveinsurgent:How can health care that is driven by profit provide the best care?

Isn't it always in the interest of the insurers and what have you to pay the least amount as possible. Once they have your premiums... why would they willingly tolerate an expense without first exercising every possible avenue for withholding coverage. How can anyone think this is desirable state of things?

daveinsurgent:How can health care that is driven by profit provide the best care?

Isn't it always in the interest of the insurers and what have you to pay the least amount as possible. Once they have your premiums... why would they willingly tolerate an expense without first exercising every possible avenue for withholding coverage. How can anyone think this is desirable state of things?

That's a fantastic point, why would they willingly tolerate an expense? If they find themselves short shafting customers too much, they will fall outside of the 80/20 split permitted by the ACA and subject to fines in excess of the difference... mind you, this doesn't stop them from jacking up premiums, paying doctors more, and making more on top of that (still at the 80/20), but it does address the reticence to pay that we have frequently seen as part of high-margin, high-profit HMOs in the past.

daveinsurgent:How can health care that is driven by profit provide the best care?

Isn't it always in the interest of the insurers and what have you to pay the least amount as possible. Once they have your premiums... why would they willingly tolerate an expense without first exercising every possible avenue for withholding coverage. How can anyone think this is desirable state of things?

Basic logic has no place here! THIS IS A HEALTH CARE THREAD!

/getting any profit out of health care (beyond salaries, obviously) makes sick people poor and poor people dead.