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Are you referring to when I said about Black Flies "My personal opinion is that it needs a lower first bolt if people are ever regularly going to try it...If you slip getting to the first bolt you are looking at maybe a 35 foot steep slide down onto a series of stone steps. I'd give it another star for sure if it had another bolt."

I wasn't saying that it should be done without your permission, just expressing my opinion in view of the fact that it hasn't gotten really any serious repeat attempts that I know of since you put it up, and I don't think that is from lack of quality of the line. It wasn't meant as a personal diss of you or your accomplishment.

« Last Edit: February 20, 2014, 07:54:00 PM by M_Sprague »

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"Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is not a path and leave a trail."

I lucked into putting up a route in NC that has become one of the standards, and up on P4 there is a stretch of a solid 25' of slick ass insecure .10a water groove above an ehh, TCU and a sideways RP. The only reason I didn't drill at the time was because I was so certain that the climbing had to be much easier and I was just climbing horribly. For quite awhile after I'd get calls from guys asking permission to put in a bolt and I'd say fuck no and I'll chop it if you do. Maybe it should have been bolted on the FA, but if you come after you know two crucial things that I didn't: That it will go and how hard. That's a huge advantage. Most people that climb it now tell me that crux is the capstone to a killer route, and a bolt would ruin it.

Probably not much of anything, you'd tumble down the groove and then shoot out over the lip of a roof 300' off the deck. It would be a trouser filling event though. And if the crappy gear blew it could put a sideways swing to it and you might swing enough to smack into the dihedral below after about 80'. That might suck. As far as I know no one has ever fallen there, but as I said, they are mentally prepared for it now, and 10a is not that unreasonable.

Damn, I have been thinking about that route all winter. Already in negotiations with the wife for a long weekend off to spend at Greens this spring.

I don't remember the first bolt being that bad, although my memory does suck. What about a stick clip?

That is why I have been waiting for you to do the bolt replacement job, Dave, lol. Unless I am spacing on a lower bolt, that would be a very long stick clip unless you could find a good high stance to use it from.

Pappy, I would much rather take a 50+ footer into the air than a 30 foot slide into a ledgy ground fall, not that I really want to do either.

Anyway, It was just my opinion like "John, your painting would be more popular if you hadn't put pasties on her" or something.

« Last Edit: February 21, 2014, 05:46:12 PM by M_Sprague »

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"Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is not a path and leave a trail."

No not a route in particular, though black Flies does come up sometimes..i had someone ask if the could add bolts to Western lady, Clean Sweep and Bit's N pieces....Fuck no !! These routes are over 25 years old (almost 30) and do get done...go find your own section of rock

Damn, I have been thinking about that route all winter. Already in negotiations with the wife for a long weekend off to spend at Greens this spring.

I don't remember the first bolt being that bad, although my memory does suck. What about a stick clip?

I really think..REALLY that doing it ground up and then going for the top..onsite would be such a great experince and so rare these days that it's must do...You won't find a lot of virgin rock like this...12+..13 ? and 12 ?? pretty cool