What a surprise, DPRK now says that it wont attend the summit if the US insists on denuclearisation.

So now, the US has two options: go ahead with the summit while dropping those demands, making the US look weak and ineffective

or

Insist on denuclearisation, making North Korea call off the summit, making the US look inflexible and greedy in its demands.

Wait, can't the US just pull the very same dick move and go back to insisting on denuclearization once the summit is already well underway

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Praise NHGH! For the tribulation of all sentient beings.a plague on both your houses -Mercutiohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrTGgpWmdZQhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVWd7nPjJH8It is an unfortunate fact that every man who seeks to disseminate knowledge must contend not only against ignorance itself, but against false instruction as well. No sooner do we deem ourselves free from a particularly gross superstition, than we are confronted by some enemy to learning who would plunge us back into the darkness -H.P.LovecraftHe who fights with monsters must take care lest he thereby become a monster -Nietzschehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHhrZgojY1QYou are a fluke of the universe, and whether you can hear it of not the universe is laughing behind your back -DeteriorataDon't use the email address in my profile, I lost the password years ago

Honestly, if I was a Russian intelligence operative, you know what I'd be planning right now? Blatantly and obviously supporting the Democrats in 2020, with a very clear crumb trail back to Moscow.

Trump will rage, likely declare the election illegitimate, may refuse to stand down if he loses, will definitely direct the DOJ to go after the Democrats if he somehow still wins. Meanwhile, 50% of the voting population will think the other 50% are traitor-supporting scum. Each side will be convinced the other is working with Russia, is illegitimate and unfit to rule. Throw in a few coordinated protests, maybe encourage a bit of violence and then sit back and watch as the USA rips itself apart.

Russia doesn't care who sits in the White House. It cares about paralysing the normal function of the US government, giving it a free hand in its near abroad and areas of interest like Syria. Best way to do that is to take advantage of US hyperpartisanship, and that doesn't mean backing any one player fully.

Honestly, if I was a Russian intelligence operative, you know what I'd be planning right now? Blatantly and obviously supporting the Democrats in 2020, with a very clear crumb trail back to Moscow.

Trump will rage, likely declare the election illegitimate, may refuse to stand down if he loses, will definitely direct the DOJ to go after the Democrats if he somehow still wins. Meanwhile, 50% of the voting population will think the other 50% are traitor-supporting scum. Each side will be convinced the other is working with Russia, is illegitimate and unfit to rule. Throw in a few coordinated protests, maybe encourage a bit of violence and then sit back and watch as the USA rips itself apart.

Russia doesn't care who sits in the White House. It cares about paralysing the normal function of the US government, giving it a free hand in its near abroad and areas of interest like Syria. Best way to do that is to take advantage of US hyperpartisanship, and that doesn't mean backing any one player fully.

Now that you've said it, it's obvious.

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"Daisy had syphilis, Tom died of genital warts, and Nick Carroway watched it all in mounting horror, then made off with the silverware and the maid."~ The Good Reverend

What scares me the most about that is that it can achieved by as little as one Russian operative, and would likely be an unshakable success if it was like 3 of them with a few leaked emails monologuing their evil plan

I've been thinking about that too -- they don't have to knowledgably collude with anybody, they just have to drop some ammo crates for opposition to load into the accusation gun.

I don't know how we recover from this, that kind of trust/faith in the electoral institution (or the parties) is easy to destroy but hard to rebuild.

Personally, I'm feeling a bit warmer towards Comey's opinion - that maybe Trump shouldn't be impeached, because it lets Americans off the hook too easy. Trump is like an overdue wildfire. In his wake, new things will grow, things which have been in the shade for a long time. Maybe we've gotta let the fire burn?

I'm of the Discordian opinion that Aftermath only comes after Bureaucracy breaks itself. Let acceleration play itself out. The shitty parts of the system have to come to the surface and express themselves there, so they can be understood and confronted in honest terms. Trump is the walking personification of what's wrong with the current system. We could walk away from the Trump years with a strengthened immune system. Maybe...

I don't think impeachment would do much, other than an emotional catharsis for much of the country. If Trump did anything, he underscored the shitty current state of US politics. Him going away doesn't change that state -- in fact, it could make him a scapegoat, leaving the rest untouched.

What I'd like to see is an overall discrediting of the hard-right GOP and their worldview. Not sure that's gonna happen, though.

I mean, yes, you're going to need to deal with the fact that a good 35% of your country is absolutely batshit insane sooner or later.

Aside from the obvious reasons for impeaching Trump, I favour that because I think impeaching Trump may send the crazies over the edge, and give you a chance to do just that. Otherwise, it's just kicking the problem down the road, until you get a President who can run a half competent PR campaign, knows how government works, has the respect of Congress and utterly steamrolls what is left of your republic.

It's probably better to do that now, before the irreversible climate change wrecks the coastline of most of the world and makes anywhere inbetween the tropics almost uninhabitable, sparking resource wars and flows of immigrants that make the current Middle East look minor by comparison.

I've been thinking about that too -- they don't have to knowledgably collude with anybody, they just have to drop some ammo crates for opposition to load into the accusation gun.

I don't know how we recover from this, that kind of trust/faith in the electoral institution (or the parties) is easy to destroy but hard to rebuild.

Personally, I'm feeling a bit warmer towards Comey's opinion - that maybe Trump shouldn't be impeached, because it lets Americans off the hook too easy. Trump is like an overdue wildfire. In his wake, new things will grow, things which have been in the shade for a long time. Maybe we've gotta let the fire burn?

I'm of the Discordian opinion that Aftermath only comes after Bureaucracy breaks itself. Let acceleration play itself out. The shitty parts of the system have to come to the surface and express themselves there, so they can be understood and confronted in honest terms. Trump is the walking personification of what's wrong with the current system. We could walk away from the Trump years with a strengthened immune system. Maybe...

Gonna be really hard on poor folks.

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"Daisy had syphilis, Tom died of genital warts, and Nick Carroway watched it all in mounting horror, then made off with the silverware and the maid."~ The Good Reverend

I mean, yes, you're going to need to deal with the fact that a good 35% of your country is absolutely batshit insane sooner or later.

Aside from the obvious reasons for impeaching Trump, I favour that because I think impeaching Trump may send the crazies over the edge, and give you a chance to do just that. Otherwise, it's just kicking the problem down the road, until you get a President who can run a half competent PR campaign, knows how government works, has the respect of Congress and utterly steamrolls what is left of your republic.

It's probably better to do that now, before the irreversible climate change wrecks the coastline of most of the world and makes anywhere inbetween the tropics almost uninhabitable, sparking resource wars and flows of immigrants that make the current Middle East look minor by comparison.

Also this.

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"Daisy had syphilis, Tom died of genital warts, and Nick Carroway watched it all in mounting horror, then made off with the silverware and the maid."~ The Good Reverend