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There is no way for Shirou to create Rho Aias in UBW (which made the whole deal in UBW movie even more silly in fact) because he -never- witnessed that shield at all, and never could get Archer's experience, unlike in HF.

This points reminds me of how UBW was way too convenient with plot hole regarding Archer's "existence".

Q: In the end of the Rin route, was it Shirou that projected Rho Aias in the Shirou vs Gilgamesh fight? Or was it Archer? In Fate/side material, it's said that it was projection magic from Archer, but in the story, there was the depiction of Shirou "pulling the shield from the hill". Does this mean that this switched to Archer's scene?
A: This has been easy to misunderstand, but the part about Archer supporting Shirou was the time before Shirou pulled out Rho Aias, before Shirou came to his realization.
After Shirou's monologue about him being surprised that he was still alive after taking Gil's attack, "If I survived, there must have been a reason why I survived. But that was simply something I didn't have any control over."
That was the "Rho Aias" that Archer made to help Shirou in a way that wouldn't let Gilgamesh know there was someone else waiting to ambush him.

Archer used Rho Aias when Gilgamesh used Ea on Shirou.

Shirou used Rho Aias when he was doing the UBW chant. As for how Shirou even knew about Rho Aias, maybe he saw it in Archer's UBW

Zero takes place in the 90s and Stay Night in the early 2000s, right? Do we have exact years for each? Trying to figure it out for fanfic/roleplay purposes and info on what year each takes place in would be extremely helpful.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoarfrost

We don't have set dates, I believe. We just know that FSN takes place in the early 2000's and Zero is exactly 10 years before that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Auria

As far as I remember 1994 (4th war) and 2004 (5th war). But I don't think that was ever officially stated in the works, but Fate/Stay Night was released in 2004 that's why it's considered to occur this year I believe. 1994 also falls into the Clinton Era, but I guess without official confirmation you could always make it +/- a few years.
Maybe someone else stumpled upon exact information on this?

Quote:

Originally Posted by lightsenshi

I don't suppose someone could provide information where to find that?

Ill resume as much as possible to the points relevant only for the fateverse and nothing else.

Most of it comes from Tsukihime notes booklets, a little more from complete material and character material and some extra are not canon but fair calculations with information given from other characters, other games or their interaction during a certain time (the not canon ones are marked *****).

Year - EventCAREFUL THERE ARE SOME SPOILERS FROM FATE ZERO AS WELL AS FSN AND HOLLOW ATARAXIA.

Spoiler for TIME FRAME:

2600 BCE - Reign of Gilgamesh
2000ca BCE - Age of the gods
2000ca BCE - Beginning of the Elder Title (the oldest DA Ancestors)
Around 2000ca BCE - Landing of Type Mercury ****
1000 BCE - Origins of Zoroaster/Avesta
356-323 BCE - Birth and death of Iskandar
1000 - Einzbern quest to regain the Heaven's Feel begins
1500 - Machiri quest for a miracle begins
1800 - Tohsaka Nagato (a hidden Christian) meets Zelretch
1800 - Machiri wash ashore Japan
1800 - Beginning of Heaven's Feel ritual
1870 - Heaven's Feel 2
1910 - Birth of Kotomine Risei
1930 - Heaven's Feel 3
1965 - Emiya Kiritsugu is born
1967 - Kotomine Kirei is born
1972 - Touko is born
1975 - Waver Velvet is born
1973 - Takeuchi Takashi is born
1973 - Nasu Kinoko is born
1981-1982 - Bazett Fraga McRemitz is born ***
1981 - Kotomine Kirei graduates from the Manresa St. Ignatius at the top of his class (skips two grades).
1983 - Matou Kariya severs ties with the Matou family
1985 - Tohsaka Tokiomi proposes to Zenjou Aoi.
1985 - Emiya Kiritsugu retires.
1985 - Emiya Kiritsugu is adopted into the Einzbern line
1986 - Illyasviel von Einzbern is born ****
1986-1987 - Tohsaka Rin, Matou Shinji, Emiya Shirou are born
1987-1988 - Tohsaka Sakura is born
1989 - Kotomine Kirei is married to the woman who becomes Caren Hortensia's mother
1990 - Caren Hortensia is born. ****
1990 - Touko is kicked out of the city
1991 - Kotomine Kirei's wife dies. Days later, Command Spell marks appear on him. Risei and Tokiomi arrange for Kirei's transfer from the Sacred Church into the Association and from then on, Kirei trains under Tokiomi.
1993 - Sakura is handed over to the Matou family. Matou Kariya returns to the Matou family to become a Master in the upcoming war, on the condition that Sakura is returned to her family.
1994 - Rin and Aoi move out of Fuyuki for the duration of the coming war (Aoi's parents' home)
1994 - Heaven's Feel 4 (confirmed deaths of Kayneth Archibald El-Melloi, Kotomine Risei, Tohsaka Tokiomi, and Irisviel von Einzbern during the 4th ritual)
1994 - Shirou is adopted by Kiritsugu
1996 - Bazett is invited into the Association. Sometime between 1996 and 1998 she chooses to become a sealer, in other words a magus dedicated to combat, which is a rarity given her age at the time, as combat is the one thing she's talented at. ****
1998 - Bazett, the lone survivor of an Association sealing mission, meets Kotomine, the lone survivor of an Executor force. Normally, Executors aren't permitted to cooperate with Association magi without the permission of the pope or a bishop and are supposed to destroy the body and all the materials of the one they're terminating (which is why sealing agents and Executors have to confront each other even when facing a mutual enemy), but the two of them cooperate in killing the enemy magus on the condition that Kotomine finishes his job and kills the magus; Bazett gets to have the rest. After that, the two of them meet each other several times by coincidence on other missions.
1998 - Mikiya is mesmerized by Touko's doll. He quits college and decides to work for her. (important matter for the HF route ending)
1999 - Emiya Kiritsugu dies
2002 - Kuzuki arrives in Fuyuki (first and only error in the canon crono time frame because Kuzuki entry differs in hollow ataraxia info)
2004 - Heaven's Feel 5
2004 - hollow ataraxia (Nasu says later there's no conflict in the canon appearance of Kuzuki since HA happens in an alternate reality)
3000 - Crimson moon
XXXX - Earth dies. Aristotles invade. (I'm not kidding this is actually the end for the world in the type moon universe)

Location: Where there are no mallets or tentacles.... and the female cast of Tenjou Tenge is mine, all mine!

Age: 31

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragoZERO

Easy man... you'll upset the fanatics.

Spoiler for Fate spoiler stuff:

Not really. Just because I'm a Sakura fan, doesn't mean I like all that happened in HF. It just happened to also have good romantic development as well, imo, and a lot of rich character development amongst the clusterfuck.

Honestly, the whole route was a big troll. The smartest people of the group ran around like chickens with their heads cut off when they had the perfect way to stop what was going on with Sakura. But they kick around the possessed person the whole time, accelerating the corruption (Ilya knew about Sakura and what was possessing her pretty much from the beginning, and had a couple ways to stop it.

So many things one can figure out that were wrong here, besides the misplaced "What the Hell Hero" people give Shirou, which should be doled out for almost everyone else instead. The boy is the least informed here, Rin, with her wealth of genius didn't even think to question Archer when he got all funny about the shadow.

Not only did the characters allow the villains to troll them(and Kotomine and Zouken trolled them good, I'll say), they didn't behave as people who are cooperating should. Saber had a good chance to live if Ilya was more forthcoming with info. Fate has a lot of plot holes and headscratchers like these.

You'd be surprised at how screwed up things can get when people don't communicate or have their heads up their butts.

He knew about Rho Aias the same way he knew about his unique UBW chant and how to create his Reality Marble.

What way? You'll have to ask someone else.

He just SAW Rho Aias in front of him (projected by Archer). That alone is already sufficient for him to replicate it afterwards (it's the nature of his magic after all) even before the whole "osmosis of knowledge from Archer" thing going on.

Just to doubly clarify, there were TWO Rho Aias's projected in that scene. The first, unseen by us, was projected by Archer and saved him from Ea (lite). The second is Shirou's own which absorbed the hail of GoB NP's while he casted UBW.

Rho Aias is conceptually the shield that will withstand any "arrow." So as long as you don't run up and slash/stab at it it will put up a good fight. Of course, unlike Avalon there appears to be some additional mana requirement (I think I remember Archer having to put more prana into it to sustain it against Gae Bolg). And Rho Aias was able to negate a spear that reverses causality so that it will always hit its target. Ea lite is, in a battle of concepts, no where near that powerful.

I haven't actually played UBW, only saw the movie (yeah, I know ) and in the movie it kinda made sense to me that Gil lost because he was cocky and didn't think about using Ea until it was too late (I assume a full-powered Ea-blast is practically an I-win button and would tear through UBW, Shirou & Archer like knife through butter .. in fact - through everything except Avalon ? only talking Servants), but in the game it seems he used a weaker blast .. why was it weaker btw ? not enough time to fully charge ?

__________________

When we hunt, we kill
No one is safe
Nothing is sacred
We are Blackwatch
We are the last line of defense
We will burn our own to hold the red line, it is the last line to ever hold

I haven't actually played UBW, only saw the movie (yeah, I know ) and in the movie it kinda made sense to me that Gil lost because he was cocky and didn't think about using Ea until it was too late (I assume a full-powered Ea-blast is practically an I-win button and would tear through UBW, Shirou & Archer like knife through butter .. in fact - through everything except Avalon ? only talking Servants), but in the game it seems he used a weaker blast .. why was it weaker btw ? not enough time to fully charge ?

The movie wasn't wrong about that.

It's just that earlier, before Shirou understood his reality marble, Gil got tired of fooling around so much and decided to show Shirou a barely charged Ea to kill him. This was when Archer used Rho Aias to give Shirou one more chance to figure out UBW.

Shirou then taunts Gil to use Ea again which made Gil go "lol no" and use GoB instead. Shirou blocks this while casting UBW with his own Rho Aias and the rest the movie is a good enough explanation for.

The church thing is really interesting but I'm afraid I don't have permission to explain things anymore beyond superficial answers so what I can tell you is that for the fateverse page 265 from the complete materials collection. The church although they care for lives is not really in charge of protecting or saving them their job is to protect the souls but not the people or their bodies who are just vessels.

Wait, what? What are you not allowed to answer?

Quote:

There are very good "dots" connecting the cease of hostilities between the church and the magic association, the Tohsaka family and its embroilment with them, when how and why it was formed, the Assembly of the Eighth Sacrament, the burial agency and a long etc. Look for that information for yourself (sorry) and that pretty much will let you understand why the church works as an arbitrary.

How the hell is he supposed to look for information for himself when it's in Japanese? That's completely ludicrous.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragoZERO

If only Nasu wasn't such a troll and made us kill Saber (of course I tried to save her) then we would have had an excellent canon ending.

Well, yeah, I think that was kind-of the point. Although, I could have easily seen there being a "HF Good" ending where Saber somehow survived....

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragoZERO

Easy man... you'll upset the fanatics.

Well, having HF as the last route and then ignoring Sakura's situation in the first two is pretty trollish....

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragoZERO

I do remember Illya and Rin keeping him in the dark but I don't think I picked up on the other stuff. I think I was so filled with rage that it blinded me a little,

Well, it was certainly a mess. But, then, Nasu had to make it that way in order that he get a suitably dramatic story. Ilya finding a way to save Sakura and kill Zouken on day 9 wouldn't have made for a particularly interesting route....

I just finished the FSN VN. Though I enjoyed the game I don't understand why Sakura's dilemma was completely ignored in the Fate and UBW routes. So does that mean her fate is sealed as Zouken's puppet or worse be consumed by the crest worm inside her? It's kinda sad knowing after completing Saber's and Rin's routes that Sakura has nothing except in her true ending. I agree that HF had some parts that were trollish though it was probably my favorite for being the darkest. I just wish Type-Moon addressed each heroine in each route though more on the main girl of their designated route. It ends up that each route is almost a completely different story but with just the same premise.

I also don't understand the end of the "Last Episode" after completing all routes. Did Saber return or did Shirou go to her? It seems contradicting to ending of Saber's route.