Please note: we have been online over ten years, and we want The Trek BBS to continue as a free site. But if you block our ads we are at risk.Please consider unblocking ads for this site - every ad you view counts and helps us pay for the bandwidth that you are using. Thank you for your understanding.

Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.

Voyager and Enterprise both did this on a number of occasions, though the TOS/TNG/DS9 crews weren't completely free of it either. They set up an EXCELLENT moral dilemma but the way they resolve it makes the main characters either look like first class jerks, just plain stupid, or some combination thereof.

These are usually the episodes that are still stirring up debates years later. Sure the heroes aren't always going to be perfect, but there's a huge difference between making a morally questionable choice because you have to and regretting it and just not giving a damn or reveling in them.

In the case of this episode, I get the fact that it's not Archer's call to make. He's establishing first contact here. But literally condoning the exploitation of a significant number of people in another species? At the very least he should have told Trip it's not their place personally to make a call there, but he's going to recommend Earth put diplomatic pressure on them because slavers are not the kind of people they want to be associating with. The way Archer did it, he probably would've been alright if he made contact with Nazi Germany who was in the process of gassing all their Jews.

All I can tell you S/U Fan is look out... some Archer's biggest bad calls are still yet to come.

I feel the same way about "Cogenitor" for the same reasons, S/U Fan. On paper it should have been one of ENT's all-time greats, but Archer's behavior and his hypocritical reaction towards Trip bring it way down in my estimation.

Even on paper, the script's dialogue has Archer being hypocritical and the senior staff uncaring, save for Trip. Perhaps the initial idea of the episode had the potential to be great, but this episode, as it was written, needed to have been re-written, imo.

Zombie Redshirt wrote:

Voyager and Enterprise both did this on a number of occasions, though the TOS/TNG/DS9 crews weren't completely free of it either. They set up an EXCELLENT moral dilemma but the way they resolve it makes the main characters either look like first class jerks, just plain stupid, or some combination thereof.

These are usually the episodes that are still stirring up debates years later. Sure the heroes aren't always going to be perfect, but there's a huge difference between making a morally questionable choice because you have to and regretting it and just not giving a damn or reveling in them.

I haven't seen all of any series but DS9, so that's the only one I can for sure speak to. What you just said is the reason why what some might call even DS9's absolute worst episodes are far better than this one. The crew and captain, and even non-crew on the space station, seemed to always understand the severity of the situations they were dealing with. They would grapple with tough issues, and even if you didn't like what they ended up deciding, you could at least say that they were trying and did everything in their power to be decent and fair.

One episode that's being debated over in the DS9 forum is Sons of Mogh and Worf's decision to give his brother a new identity. He decides this, in anguish and with guilt, after his brother requests that he perform a death ritual for him to put him out of his misery. Worf reluctantly tries to grant his brother's request, but he's stopped because of Starfleet regulations. His brother still begs him to do something. Worf doesn't know what to do, but works out this alternative. He's not happy about it and no one really wins. Worf's brother gets his wish of not having to live with the dishonor anymore, but he also loses who he is in the process. Worf is able to help his brother, in a way, but at the cost of losing him and having to live with what he's done. Not for one second, do you get the impression that no one understands the gravity of the situation.

Dealing with sex and sexism, Quark comes from a very sexist culture, and he's very much about being a good and average Ferengi (on the surface, but some of it is real). An episode like Profit and Lace might give tell to his sexism. But, he gives 10 bars of latinum as start-up money to a very capable Ferengi woman that has a crush on him so she can have the life of enterprise that she wants in the Gamma Quadrant. If he was really as sexist as he seemed, he wouldn't have done that. And as much as he squawked at his mother making achievements, he didn't do much to get in her way. It just lets you know there's more to him than meets the eye. I have a feeling that if he ever had a daughter, she'd be taking over the bar someday... I'm just saying that at least we saw room for growth with him.

I know for sure that Kira wouldn't have been as passive about what was happening as T'Pol, who interestingly enough had been mind-raped and knew what it was like to be "used" for someone else's benefit. She didn't seem to like it that much, if I recall correctly, and that's a bit similar to Kira knowing what it's like to live in captivity just because of how she was born. The difference is that I know Kira wouldn't have forgotten her experiences and would have had some compassion (and I'm sure rage knowing Kira) on the Cogenitor's behalf. T'Pol didn't even seem to want to fully acknowledge the Cogenitor's situation.

Sisko used trickery and deception to get the Romulans involved in a war they wanted to have nothing to do with because it would benefit the entire Alpha Quadrant in In The Pale Moonlight. It wasn't something he felt good about or did lightly, but he had to do it to save everyone from the Dominion... I guess I'm just saying that this episode was a real failure for the senior characters of the Enterprise in a very major way. It almost makes me not like the senior staff of the Enterprise (except Trip), and I'm pretty sure that wasn't its goal.

In the case of this episode, I get the fact that it's not Archer's call to make. He's establishing first contact here. But literally condoning the exploitation of a significant number of people in another species? At the very least he should have told Trip it's not their place personally to make a call there, but he's going to recommend Earth put diplomatic pressure on them because slavers are not the kind of people they want to be associating with. The way Archer did it, he probably would've been alright if he made contact with Nazi Germany who was in the process of gassing all their Jews.

Yes, and probably an even closer situation would be the "nice southern plantation owner" that believed his slaves were 3/5 human and don't deserve any rights, which of course is a load of @#$% because that was decided as a part of a political compromise and not any kind of real scientific data. These people were just as bad.

It would have been nice if they'd all met up at the end of the episode to discuss what happened and how they would proceed in the future when dealing with species that were like the species they'd just dealt with.

All I can tell you S/U Fan is look out... some Archer's biggest bad calls are still yet to come.

Well, someone wants to die. The end of one of the Borg's arms is a drill, and the head scientist guy doesn't think they look hostile? Or that it's at least a possibility? I'm reminded to never say stupidity never hurt anyone. I'm not sure how well this episode plays into the Borg in TNG, though.

Here's something I've noticed, why does T'Pol always have to give Archer a little pat on the back every time he makes a tough decision? She's always saying something like "You did a good job. You could not have done anything else," or "That was very difficult, but you made the right choice." Can't he just make a decision without her nursing him over it every time? I guess she knows how emotionally unstable he is, and this is her way of keeping him "even."

They were supposed to be the Borg from the Sphere that apparently crashed on Earth in First Contact... though as I recall the movie the Sphere was pretty well blown up, but anyways...

Yeah... they just HAD to say "Oooh let's do a BORG episode!" Really this is what made the first two seasons of Enterprise so facepalming at times. "We'll have Ferengi, that'll be cool!" "This week we'll do Klingons!" "Ooh now a Romulan episode!" etc. They're so busy trying to touch off on the other series stories, they're not telling one of their own.

This was one of the franchise's better Borg episodes, certainly better than most of VOY's efforts. I agree that sometimes ENT got a little too caught up in trying to tie itself to the TNG-era shows, but in this instance I didn't mind it. Brian Tyler's score for this episode was excellent, too. I wish he'd done more than just this and "Canamar."

T'Pol is a fairly good first officer. She knew that an emotionally compromised Archer absolutely needed someone to accompany him, and it didn't take much for her to get him spilling his guts as a form of therapy. "No, I don't wanna talk. I'm fine. You just sit back there and meditate. Okay, his name was A.G. Robinson. He was a Starfleet captain, and I wouldn't be here without him..." Her suggestion to name the nebula after Robinson was also very thoughtful.

Grade: C plus
---------------

Bounty

So, the Vulcans already said that the Tellarites were, in their opinion, a disagreeable species, but Archer throws that to the wind so he can have a vacation guide. What? He ends up being taken hostage instead? Now, how could he have avoided that?? I'm almost at the last episode of this season, and I know that Archer really does have his merits, but I truly hope the captain improves next season. I will say that the bounty plotline was better than watching Phlox slab decon gel over his toenails:

First Flight for some reason to me is an episode I really liked a lot. Then again I was a huge enthusiast of the space race and this episode seemed to capture the whole feeling of that. Not to mention those prototype ships actually looked like they were inspired by the design of the Phoenix. T'Pol naming the nebula after Archer's buddy was a nice though too. A sign she might be getting over Evil Vulcan Syndrome.

Bounty..? I'm sorry but Archer just almost deserved that to happen to him. I've suggested in the past that T'Pol really would be better off advocating the opposite of what she really means at times. "Well the Vulcans hate them, so they must be alright." As far as him improving next season? Season 3 Archer's competence and morality is very.... questionable at best. I will say by season 4 he had improved however.

Yes, the nice thing about First Flight was that the story was one that tended to "ring true." You can really believe that's how they made progress, and it was nice to see that Trip played a part in it. And on Archer's improvement, well, thanks for mentioning season 4.

I just judge them based off of each individual episode, but there is a rationale behind my ratings. It probably won't mean much to anyone outside of myself, but here's what a C means: It means that an episode is rewatchable. A plus/minus added means that it's rewatchable, so you could sit through it again, but there might be a reason or two why you would/wouldn't want to watch it, while a solid C is fairly neutral.

If you love some of these episodes that are getting Cs, well then just know that we are all individuals and individual grades will vary. My ratings are basically for myself as I trek through Enterprise.

Well they made the theme song a little less cheesy. The pace and camera work looks to have picked up a bit too, and T'Pol has a new look. I do wonder where she got the outfit from. Spare clothes in her closet? And well I guess this is the beginning of Trip and T'Pol. How cute. Meanwhile, the search for the Xindi is still on.

Here's something I've noticed, why does T'Pol always have to give Archer a little pat on the back every time he makes a tough decision? She's always saying something like "You did a good job. You could not have done anything else," or "That was very difficult, but you made the right choice." Can't he just make a decision without her nursing him over it every time?