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Re: Naruto Manga Chapter 598 Discussion and 599 Predictions

First of all I'd like to say hello to everyone here, I've been reading this forum for a while now and I gotta say I was impressed with the amount of "smart" people, or should I say non-retarded ones, ofcourse there are a few exceptions but mosts posts on here make sense, unlike most other forums. I've been thinking about Tobi's identity theories for a while now and I gotta get it out there, atleast to "argue" with some people. So again, first of all I apologize for making another Tobi thread (god knows how many have already been made), but I felt as if I might not get a direct reply or something like that, so again I apologize but I have to "spit it out".

Ok so there've been countless theories and about 3 or 4 commonly mentioned identities. You've got the most popular ones: Obito, Madara. The less popular but still often mentioned: Shisui, Izuna, Kagami, Juubi. And the down right stupid: Sasuke from the future, some bastard child by god knows who, etc.

Now I'm not really "sure" which theory is the correct one, or to be more precise, which theory I find to be the most plausible out of the bunch, because there's tons of ifs and buts, so I decided to let you guys help me out a bit.

Ok so let's get started:

Tobi = Obito
1)His name is sort of an anagram
2)His right eye's power is the same, or rather the exact opposite of Kakashi's left one. (Sasuke for example was shown being able to put out his amaterasu when Karin on fire. He used one eye to "make" amaterasu, and another to put it out.) He also tells kakashi not to bother using that technique as it won't work on him.
3) His haircut (silly I know, but still)
4) His goofy character before we knew he's the leader of akatsuki (this can also be thought of as simply him not wanting to let others know what's really going on)
5) It would kind of make sense since Naruto is usually about masters and apprentices, teammates, and stuff like that. Plus I think we're bound to get more info on Kakashi's life, think about it he's one of the main characters and his story is yet to be fully told, atleast that's what I'd like to believe. With Tobi being Obito and all (if it turns out this way), we should get more insight on it. The one thing that keeps bothering me is Rin, we have absolutely no idea what-so-ever what happened to her, and I doubt she's THAT irrelevant, though I could be wrong ofcourse.
6) Tobi, evil as he is, is actually trying to accomplish world peace (in a sick and twisted way, but nonetheless he is aiming towards peace, which is something protagonists usually go for, meaning there are SOME (however minor) good intentions, and we know Obito was one depicted as one of the most loyal and good guy-ish person in the manga. Plus it'd be interesting to hear about how he went from good to evil.
7) Tobi is part zetsu I believe, as he has lost several limbs yet somehow still has them, thus making it possible for me to believe that Obito was somehow "saved" before he would've died, and the only reason he is "whole" is because of zetsu.

I know that the Tobi vs. Minato fight should disprove this theory due to the time line (Obito could not be a full grown man at the time he fought the 4th), but there could be a way this can work out. "The masked man" quite possibly changed identities (what I'm saying is I think at first the person behind it was madara, however currently that is clearly not the case as Madara is revived with edo-tensei). I'm too lazy to do it but it was shown that "the masked man" had long hair (similar to Madara's) when confronting Itachi and Kisame, however now he has short hair.

Tobi = Izuna
1) Makes sense since he knows about pretty much everything that went on since even before the Shodai/Madara fight. You have to be "in the know" to know so many things.
2) He pretty much "vanished" from history once he gave up his eyes, everybody knew about Madara, yet he was never mentioned by anybody except Tobi, and the only time we see him being somewhat emotional is when he clenches his fist when talking about Izuna. This makes sense in a way if you think about it, he now referes to himself as no-one, Izuna basically was a nobody after the transplant, while before it it was said he was equal to Madara.
3) He feels the same hatred as Madara, he feels betrayed and wants revenge. After all he did give up his eyes for Madara, for the clan and it's future, while in the end Madara was "alienated" by his own clan.
4) Same height and weight according to the databook
5) Tobi talking about Nagato: "Those eyes were mine to begin with"

Tobi = Juubi seems highly unlikely to me, sorry but I just can't imagine a human Juubi, especially since 2 of the tailed beasts are still out there for one.

Tobi = Madara pretty much went down the drain as soon as we saw edo madara.

Tobi = Kagami doesn't seem to farfetched since he is an uchiha, he is old enough for the timeline to apply, etc. However I doubt it since we have heard absolutely nothing about him, and it would take even more time for Kishi to explain how a character we barely heard of earlier is somehow the main villain.

Tobi = Shisui doesn't make sense, first of all both his eyes are gone, second he was seen being dead (ok faking it isn't out of the question but still), and is genuinely a good guy, and also I think Itachi would realise the tobi he was dealing with before his death wasn't madara but his closest friend.

To me the only theories right now that make sense are Obito and Izuna, however there is still so much we don't know about.
For example we have barely no info on zetsu appart from him being Tobi's ***** and the white half being able to transform into any shinobi, and make lots of clones (probably with Hashirama's DNA cells mixed in), we have absolutely no idea what the black half is for, nor do we know how he is rellevant to this whole plot.
Also another user pointed this out, when kisame spoke to madara (presumably the actual one), his chest/abdominal area was wrapped for some reason (we only see a little bit of it, due to his clothing), and when he was revived with ET he looked at his chest area under his clothes for some reason.
And it's also clear Madara knows who tobi is from the get-go, he knows all about the plan and everything, so at some point they must've come up with this plan, or it's just Tobi following through with Madara's orders. Also Tobi referencing to Nagato's rinnegan as "his in the first place" could also mean several things, but mainly that Nagato most likely had those eyes implanted without knowing it himself. Also him being pissed at Nagato for using the ressurection jutsu on Konoha and not for him,...
Then you also have him saying something about Kabuto unlocking "the secret of his body" or something like that, etc.
There's probably tons of stuff I forgot to add simply because I can't think of everything I want to put down due to information overload on my part , so don't be surprised if I edit my post several times

Re: Naruto Manga Chapter 598 Discussion and 599 Predictions

Awesome chapter has anyone got the feeling that naruto will have to fight madara? And don't forget that minato was so scared of the masked man's plan and had to seal kurama into naruto because he sensed the dark future he was planning and if tobi was obito, the 4th would have noticed or sensed it was him after all he was obito's teacher. next chapter plssss. Alhaji Kishimoto

Re: Naruto Manga Chapter 598 Discussion and 599 Predictions

Yeah i dont think rin is someone not worth thinking about. I use to think the way kakashi unlocked his MS is by always feeling guilty that he was resposible for killing obito. But then i wondered if maybe he ended up killing rin. Accidentally or that he couldnt save her. Something close enough to "kill ur best friend" type of thing. Maybe she was suffering and she couldnt be saved so she asked kakashi to end her life as mercy. But thats just my thoughts as a what if.

But i wonder how tobi unlocked his MS. Did it ever say if u unlocked MS u can implant any sharingan and use its MS form?. As far as i know... no. So how did he unlock his MS? If he is izuna.. did madara ask him to kill him as part of the plan to gain MS then bring him back with he rinnegan? If by some crazy twist he is obito... is he responsible for rin's death? Idk.

Re: Naruto Manga Chapter 598 Discussion and 599 Predictions

Originally Posted by wonderer

Yeah i dont think rin is someone not worth thinking about. I use to think the way kakashi unlocked his MS is by always feeling guilty that he was resposible for killing obito. But then i wondered if maybe he ended up killing rin. Accidentally or that he couldnt save her. Something close enough to "kill ur best friend" type of thing. Maybe she was suffering and she couldnt be saved so she asked kakashi to end her life as mercy. But thats just my thoughts as a what if.

But i wonder how tobi unlocked his MS. Did it ever say if u unlocked MS u can implant any sharingan and use its MS form?. As far as i know... no. So how did he unlock his MS? If he is izuna.. did madara ask him to kill him as part of the plan to gain MS then bring him back with he rinnegan? If by some crazy twist he is obito... is he responsible for rin's death? Idk.

For the first part about Rin. Unlocking MS needs the emotional experience of losing someone close to you. So Rin must have died while kakashi couldn't protect her, and since obitos last wish was that he would, he feels guilty. So he awakened MS.

About Tobi, yes that is indeed tricky, and it's impossible to say, since it would depend on who it is.

If it's obito, he must have been there at Rins death too, though that would seem much unlikely, since Rin most likely died during the time skip, where Kakashi obtained his MS, and Tobi had MS while fighting Minato.

If it's Izuna, he must have been there at Madaras death, which is very likely, since it would fit to everything.

Re: Naruto Manga Chapter 598 Discussion and 599 Predictions

Awesome chapter has anyone got the feeling that naruto will have to fight madara? And don't forget that minato was so scared of the masked man's plan and had to seal kurama into naruto because he sensed the dark future he was planning and if tobi was obito, the 4th would have noticed or sensed it was him after all he was obito's teacher. next chapter plssss. Alhaji Kishimoto

Re: Naruto Manga Chapter 598 Discussion and 599 Predictions

Awesome chapter has anyone got the feeling that naruto will have to fight madara? And don't forget that minato was so scared of the masked man's plan and had to seal kurama into naruto because he sensed the dark future he was planning and if tobi was obito, the 4th would have noticed or sensed it was him after all he was obito's teacher. next chapter plssss. Alhaji Kishimoto

Re: Naruto Manga Chapter 598 Discussion and 599 Predictions

Re: Naruto Manga Chapter 598 Discussion and 599 Predictions

Originally Posted by thegame

For the first part about Rin. Unlocking MS needs the emotional experience of losing someone close to you. So Rin must have died while kakashi couldn't protect her, and since obitos last wish was that he would, he feels guilty. So he awakened MS.

About Tobi, yes that is indeed tricky, and it's impossible to say, since it would depend on who it is.

If it's obito, he must have been there at Rins death too, though that would seem much unlikely, since Rin most likely died during the time skip, where Kakashi obtained his MS, and Tobi had MS while fighting Minato.

If it's Izuna, he must have been there at Madaras death, which is very likely, since it would fit to everything.

Rin couldn't have died during timeskip because in Part 1 after Naruto and Sasuke's first fight on the roof of that building, Kakashi went to havea chat with Sasuke and told him that seeking revenge would bring nothing, and then Sasuke said "You don't understand what it's like to lose your loved ones!" or something along those lines and Kakashi said "Actually... ALL my loved ones are dead." This means that Rin was dead by then.

Also, in Part 1, Kakashi tends to go to a certain grave in that garden area a lot. I think it might have been mentioned that it was Obito but wasn't Obito's grave at the bridge instead. If so, it could be that the grave he was visiting was actually Rin's.

Re: Naruto Manga Chapter 598 Discussion and 599 Predictions

Originally Posted by girya

Tobi cannot be Obito. Jiraya trained Nagato, Yahiko and konan. After this Jiraya trained Minato and then Minato trained kakashi,rin and obito.

Tobi says he is one who gave Nagato the rennigan. Looking at the timeline; Obito would be a mere infant when Jiraya was training Nagato or he may not be even born at the time. If Obito comes out to be tobi it will be biggest blunder of the manga as long as there is some hax jutsu that allows time travel.. :D

Any way it is difficult to pull off something like Tobi = Obito if both statements are assumed to be true. And anyways there is no reason why Obito must hate kakashi and try to destroy the entire world.. that's just not kishi. I want to see Tobi's face and not sasu and Oro next chapter... please kishi don't troll us.

THANK YOU! I couldn't have said better myself.

And if for some completely absurd reason that it turns out to be obito I may stop reading the manga altogether.