Just got my latest edition of auto rag car and driver and in it under the guise of "The Future Is A Puzzle", 25 Cars Worth Waiting For, it lists the 2012 ZL1 Camaro as number 18 Across on the puzzle. It kinda sums up what a lot of what we have learned of so far on the new model, BUT... it also talks of the next to be released 2012 Camaro model as the "Track Pack" or as they elude to as the 2012 Camaro Z/28. It's speculated to have a significantly stiffened chassis as the basis for the hard core version of the Camaro line, with handling as it's primary focus. Power is speculated to come from either an up rated LS3 or a version of the LS7 to do battle with the Boss 302 and appease those who are more interested in track days but do not want high tech dampers as part of the package. They speculate that come next April, Chevy will release this model for public consumption. I really do not know how much of this is insider info and how much is just pure speculation on their part.

If only GM could react that quicky.. The Boss 302 first drives are out, and it seems it is a bang for the buck.. quicker than the M3, cost alittle more than the GT and has America written all over it..

GM is, and has been a follower and not a leader in the Pony car market.

I say this because they are usually reactive instead of proactive when it comes to innovation and thrusting out new models.

But, when Camaro responds to a Mustang bite, it usually responds with a hammer. I wish they WOULD bring out something that you see FORD for a change go out and buy a ZL1 or Z28 or whatever to go comparison testing their new model. But so far we've only seen that with the ZL1 testing.

I'm tired of the answers following the question. For once I'd like to see GM get out in front. FAR in front.

Other than that, the "car wars" are great. In the end we all win, whichever brand we prefer.

But that article...PURE speculation. All of it. Only GM knows for sure.

GM is, and has been a follower and not a leader in the Pony car market.

I say this because they are usually reactive instead of proactive when it comes to innovation and thrusting out new models.

But, when Camaro responds to a Mustang bite, it usually responds with a hammer. I wish they WOULD bring out something that you see FORD for a change go out and buy a ZL1 or Z28 or whatever to go comparison testing their new model. But so far we've only seen that with the ZL1 testing.

I'm tired of the answers following the question. For once I'd like to see GM get out in front. FAR in front.

Other than that, the "car wars" are great. In the end we all win, whichever brand we prefer.

But that article...PURE speculation. All of it. Only GM knows for sure.

The article could have some truth to it, but like you said only GM really knows.
Prior to the ZL1 spy shots, info was leaking out that parts were seen floating around, and eventually the car started to surface.
I think the Z28 is going down the same road, some parts have been seen around "the palaces".
Let's hope it's not too long, and I'm not looking for time frame from anyone, because unless you work there and REALLY KNOW, don't get people going...PLEASE Let's just be patient, I know it's hard, it's killing me, and everything will work out in the end.

If only GM could react that quicky.. The Boss 302 first drives are out, and it seems it is a bang for the buck.. quicker than the M3, cost alittle more than the GT and has America written all over it..

A littlemore than a GT? I thought the sticker was $41,000 and up from there. Still not a bad deal, though.

And as mentioned around other threads, very few looking at an M3 are cross shopping Mustangs or Camaros for that matter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by el ess X

GM is, and has been a follower and not a leader in the Pony car market.

I say this because they are usually reactive instead of proactive when it comes to innovation and thrusting out new models.

But, when Camaro responds to a Mustang bite, it usually responds with a hammer. I wish they WOULD bring out something that you see FORD for a change go out and buy a ZL1 or Z28 or whatever to go comparison testing their new model. But so far we've only seen that with the ZL1 testing.

I'm tired of the answers following the question. For once I'd like to see GM get out in front. FAR in front.

Other than that, the "car wars" are great. In the end we all win, whichever brand we prefer.

But that article...PURE speculation. All of it. Only GM knows for sure.

Ford invented the Pony car segment. But I would also suggest that a low volume Boss doesn't make the Mustang a better car. It simply means they have a more focussed model available that most people aren't going to buy.

And you guys are forgetting one major thing. GM went through bankruptcy and cancelled or delayed a LOT of programs. If you want to judge GM on this fine. But Ford mortgaged the farm and blew borrowed money on products during that same stretch.

Just got my latest edition of auto rag car and driver and in it under the guise of "The Future Is A Puzzle", 25 Cars Worth Waiting For, it lists the 2012 ZL1 Camaro as number 18 Across on the puzzle. It kinda sums up what a lot of what we have learned of so far on the new model, BUT... it also talks of the next to be released 2012 Camaro model as the "Track Pack" or as they elude to as the 2012 Camaro Z/28. It's speculated to have a significantly stiffened chassis as the basis for the hard core version of the Camaro line, with handling as it's primary focus. Power is speculated to come from either an up rated LS3 or a version of the LS7 to do battle with the Boss 302 and appease those who are more interested in track days but do not want high tech dampers as part of the package. They speculate that come next April, Chevy will release this model for public consumption. I really do not know how much of this is insider info and how much is just pure speculation on their part.

The problem I have with this information is that the car is scheduled to be released next April. The new ZL1 starts production Jan. 2012 and gets to dealers in March 2012. I don't think the Z28 will come into showrooms a month later.

As much as I had hoped the name of the coming ZL1 was actually Z28, the car itself is actually what I was looking for. I have gotten used to the fact that it will be named ZL1 and that further down the road there will be a Z28. It most likely will NOT be a S/C engine and be more of a road star. I hope for those of you that will wait for the Z28, that it will be everything that you want it to be. Chevy built me exactly what I wanted in a ZL1. There may be cars built that will be faster or others that handle better, but none that will take the place of my ZL1.

So....because GM wasn't first this time around to produce a car with LOW demand and likely few here would buy....they're a follower and therefor inferior?

Wake up and smell the rubber people....while these cars are really cool, and we all drool over them -- the demand is almost non-existent and the return-on-investment is not worth it unless the only goal is bragging rights. (In a market where the Camaro is dominating the Mustang at every turn...bragging rights would be important for Ford, right now)

Remember...while Ford can throw some $$$ at this extremely-niche vehicle; GM financially supports both the Camaro AND the Corvette (one model of which is a better performer than 99% of production cars in the world). Put any Mustang up against even *just* a Grand Sport 'Vette and get back to me..........

Sorry for the little rant...but I wish people wouldn't be so quick to draw such wild conclusions out of thin-air, sometimes....

EDIT: Oh, and one more thing....just wait a little bit longer for the ZL1 to put down some numbers...I think MANY will be (or should be) blown away...

A littlemore than a GT? I thought the sticker was $41,000 and up from there. Still not a bad deal, though. And as mentioned around other threads, very few looking at an M3 are cross shopping Mustangs or Camaros for that matter. Ford invented the Pony car segment. But I would also suggest that a low volume Boss doesn't make the Mustang a better car. It simply means they have a more focussed model available that most people aren't going to buy.

I paid $36.8k for my Brembo, 401a GT...

Quote:

It simply means they have a more focussed model available that most people aren't going to buy.

A littlemore than a GT? I thought the sticker was $41,000 and up from there. Still not a bad deal, though.

And as mentioned around other threads, very few looking at an M3 are cross shopping Mustangs or Camaros for that matter.

Ford invented the Pony car segment. But I would also suggest that a low volume Boss doesn't make the Mustang a better car. It simply means they have a more focussed model available that most people aren't going to buy.

And you guys are forgetting one major thing. GM went through bankruptcy and cancelled or delayed a LOT of programs. If you want to judge GM on this fine. But Ford mortgaged the farm and blew borrowed money on products during that same stretch.

I'd say the money they "blew" by mortgaging the farm is paying off nicely.

And you're right, "most" people aren't going to buy them, only hard-core car enthusiasts. Those types love this car to death. This sub-forum wouldn't even exist if there wasn't interest in this type of car.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Number 3

Sorry, probably just me. I figured $5,000 was more than a "little".

A fully loaded GT comes in right around the same price as a Boss. You trade luxury for performance. Makes perfect sense to me, it just depends on what your priorities are; performance or luxury. Ford gives you that choice with the Mustang. Chevy has the Corvette, but it's out of reach to the average joe.

I'd say the money they "blew" by mortgaging the farm is paying off nicely.

And you're right, "most" people aren't going to buy them, only hard-core car enthusiasts. Those types love this car to death. This sub-forum wouldn't even exist if there wasn't interest in this type of car.

A fully loaded GT comes in right around the same price as a Boss. You trade luxury for performance. Makes perfect sense to me, it just depends on what your priorities are; performance or luxury. Ford gives you that choice with the Mustang. Chevy has the Corvette, but it's out of reach to the average joe.

From a business perspective, Ford's management has been superb---starting with Bill Ford's gutsy and selfless leadership. He was the guy who bet the farm buy borrowing all that cash in 2006-7 that allowed Ford to survive the 2008 collapse while---at the same time--investing in future product. He was also the guy who recruited Mullally and voluntarily stepped aside to give him full reign.

Think about this: If there was no GT500 would there still be a ZL1? If there was no Boss would there even be a prayer for a Z28?

Regarding the Corvette, money is not the only issue. The Vette and Camaro appeal to different audiences. For example, I am blessed enough to be able to afford a ZR1 for cash without breaking a sweat. While I marvel at its capabilities, it just doesn't do much for me emotionally. But a ZL1 convertible is the car I will buy without hesitation---and keep it forever.

I just have never really believed that the Corvette competes in the marketplace with either the Camaro or Mustang.

type in a search "rumor z28 still on the way" on google......i read an article that the author of one of the stories talked to an insider at gm and gm stated that a z28 will be released within the next 18 months.

So....because GM wasn't first this time around to produce a car with LOW demand and likely few here would buy....they're a follower and therefor inferior?

Wake up and smell the rubber people....while these cars are really cool, and we all drool over them -- the demand is almost non-existent and the return-on-investment is not worth it unless the only goal is bragging rights. (In a market where the Camaro is dominating the Mustang at every turn...bragging rights would be important for Ford, right now)

Remember...while Ford can throw some $$$ at this extremely-niche vehicle; GM financially supports both the Camaro AND the Corvette (one model of which is a better performer than 99% of production cars in the world). Put any Mustang up against even *just* a Grand Sport 'Vette and get back to me..........

Sorry for the little rant...but I wish people wouldn't be so quick to draw such wild conclusions out of thin-air, sometimes....

EDIT: Oh, and one more thing....just wait a little bit longer for the ZL1 to put down some numbers...I think MANY will be (or should be) blown away...

Agree 100%.....Would you rather have GM just put something out there, or get it right the first time?

Everyone knows the whole "save the best for last" saying.
There's a reason for it.

My prediction is that the Zed WILL return, simply cause it's always been the most coveted of the Camaro lineup. I however think that it will be as unique as the ZL1, but rather relieve the ZL1's ride components, with a tuned LS3. It was always said after all that the LS3 has potential beyond the 426 horses that the SS currently produces. I think that doing a mash of the two models would be effective, financially, and do the job that would bring the Z28 back to it's right name.