MR. McCLELLAN: Good afternoon. I want to begin with a statement
by the President: "Laura and I are saddened by the death of President
Boris Trajkovski of Macedonia, a distinguished leader and a great
friend of the United States. On behalf of the American people, I
extend condolences to President Trajkovski's family, and to the people
of Macedonia. President Trajkovski showed extraordinary courage in
leading his country from the brink of civil conflict to peace by
signing the Ohrid Framework Agreement. The United States strongly
supports President Trajkovski's vision of a multiethnic and democratic
Macedonia, at peace with itself and its neighbors, and on the path to
full membership in the transatlantic community."

And with that, I will be glad to take your questions. Go ahead,
Jacobo. You don't get to go first every day, Terry.

Q Let's go with Haiti. The situation there is getting harder
every minute, more difficult. I understand the U.S. is considering
sending three ships with over 2,000 Marines to patrol the --

MR. McCLELLAN: We heard comments from the President earlier
today. We remain committed to working with our international partners
toward a peaceful, constitutional and democratic solution in Haiti.
That's where our focus remains. The President also talked about the
importance of having an international security presence in the context
of a political solution. Obviously, we prepare for all contingencies,
and we are in the process of planning for an international security
force if a political solution is reached.

Q Would the United States be a member of that international --

MR. McCLELLAN: Well, again, I wouldn't over-interpret the planning
that's going on right now. We make appropriate contingency plans for
circumstances. But right now, we remain focused on finding a peaceful
and democratic and constitutional solution to the situation in Haiti,
and that's where it remains.

I would also give you a quick update. The Coast Guard is in the
process of safely returning some migrants to Haiti, working with the
Haitian Coast Guard. And so that process is ongoing. Obviously,
safety is a high priority for us in this effort.

Q Scott, to follow up on that, on Haiti, members of the
Congressional Black Caucus --

MR. McCLELLAN: She just jumped right in on you, Terry. You lost
out again.

Q I'm sorry. But it's a follow-up.

MR. McCLELLAN: Apologize to him, not me. It was his turn next.
But go ahead.

Q Sorry, Terry.

Members of the Congressional Black Caucus are calling for a change
in the immigration laws. Would the President favor something that
would give the Haitian boat people the same kind of status as the Cuban
boat people?

MR. McCLELLAN: Our policy on boat migrants remains the same. It
has not changed. And the President has made it very clear that we have
a plan in place to return migrants to their country of origin if they
seek to leave. And that's exactly what is going on right now with the
Coast Guard.

Obviously, in that process, safety is a high priority. And I think
that you're seeing that the Coast Guard is taking that into account.
Again, our efforts remain focused on finding a political solution. We
are also working with our international partners to make sure the
Haitian people are getting the humanitarian assistance that they need
during this difficult period.

Q Scott, for a long time, this has been considered unequal,
Haitian boat people versus the Cuban boat people. And many people are
looking at it as racial. You would not, because of this, at all, you
would not --

MR. McCLELLAN: You have heard the President talk about making sure
we have a consistent policy when it comes to migrants. And in terms of
Haitians -- the Haitian people, our migration policy remains the same.

Q You don't think that it's consistent?

MR. McCLELLAN: Go ahead.

Q Does the United States think any country has the right to spy
on Kofi Annan, and would we condemn the spying of the U.N.?

MR. McCLELLAN: We had this conversation earlier, Terry, and I
would --

Q We didn't go into it from that perspective.

MR. McCLELLAN: -- just say that I'm not going to get into
commenting on intelligence matters relating to national security.
There are a lot of reasons why I won't get into discussing
intelligence, and I think the reasons are obvious.

Q No, but I'm talking about what another country does. Do we
think that another country has the right to --

MR. McCLELLAN: Well, you're asking this in the context of recent
reports in the United Kingdom, and I think that matter has been
addressed by Prime Minister Blair.

Q Scott, the previous administration had pledged to end the use
of all antipersonnel land mines, including self-destructing land mines,
by 2003. And it also pledged to sign the Ottawa treaty banning land
mines by 2006. Why did the President go back on those pledges?

MR. McCLELLAN: Actually, let me point out to you, this is a strong
step forward in our efforts to eliminate a serious humanitarian
problem. The policy that was announced today is a comprehensive
strategy for addressing the use of land mines. And unlike any previous
land mine policy, it covers all persistent land mines, or long-lasting
land mines, would be another way to refer to it -- both antipersonnel
and antivehicle. So it goes beyond previous land mine policy in that
regard.

Q But the previous administration had pledged to sign the
Ottawa treaty by 2006, and I just wonder, what did this administration
-- what did the President see as flawed?

MR. McCLELLAN: Well, the previous administration did not agree at
the time to participate in the Ottawa agreement. This administration
has stated the same, as well.

Q But the previous administration had pledged to end the use of
all persistent land mines -- all land mines, including the so-called
self-destructing ones. This administration wants to keep using those
land mines. Can you explain that a little bit?

MR. McCLELLAN: Let me talk about -- sure, absolutely. When you're
talking about using our military to address some of the dangerous
threats that we face, it's important that they have certain resources
available, not only to protect our troops and save their lives, but to
save the lives of civilians. You're talking about smart land mines,
now. That is not the issue here when it comes to the humanitarian
problem that is posed by land mines.

I would remind you that the United States is a leader in
confronting this issue and eliminating this humanitarian problem. The
State Department funding for the United States Humanitarian Mine Action
program will be increased by an additional 50 percent above the fiscal
year '03 levels, to $70 million a year. That's significantly more than
any other country. So the United States is providing strong leadership
to eliminate the humanitarian problem that exists from persistent land
mines.

Q Scott, why is the administration continuing the deportation
of Haitians from this country -- not boat people, but Haitians who have
been in this country -- why are we continuing the deportation in the
midst of the current crisis?

MR. McCLELLAN: Well, the President expects our policies to be
enforced and enforced consistently.

Q Does that mean he does not consider what's happening in Haiti
right now to be serious enough to suspend the deportation?

MR. McCLELLAN: As I said, that when it comes to migrants seeking
to leave there, we are working to safely repatriate those migrants.
There is a current situation going on in Haiti that we are working with
nations in the Caribbean Community, with nations in the Organization of
American States and with France and Canada and others to address.
We're working to bring about a political solution, and then support an
international security presence to help move forward on that political
solution.

Q We are sending Haitians back to an airport in Port-au- Prince
that virtually everyone is trying to get out of.

MR. McCLELLAN: The way we are working to repatriate those migrants
you bring up is to make sure it is done safely and that their safety is
taken into consideration. And that's the way we expect it to be done.

Q So that means the President doesn't consider what's going on
in Haiti right now to be serious enough to suspend the deportations?

MR. McCLELLAN: Again, I think I've addressed our policy in terms
of migrants. But in terms of Haiti, obviously it is a difficult period
right now and we're working to bring about a political solution.

Q I have one more question on an unrelated matter. From our
affiliate here in the District, is the President drinking Washington,
D.C. water? The concern, of course, is over lead levels in the
water.

MR. McCLELLAN: Yes, I understand. And that's obviously an issue
that needs to be addressed to the District. I'm not going to get into
a discussion of the President's eating or drinking habits. (Laughter.)

Q Are you able to say whether the water that comes into the
White House is Washington, D.C. water, or is it a separate source?

MR. McCLELLAN: I'm not going to get into addressing those
matters.

Q One, the State Department released the human rights report
the other day and they have criticized China on many matters of human
rights. It appears Chinese were cracking down on -- against Taiwan and
then Tibet and now they are after democracy in Hong Kong and they are
cracking down the peace lovers and democracy lovers in Hong Kong. So
where do we stand? How China is getting away with all these including
this human rights report that is very critical of China?

MR. McCLELLAN: We continue to work to promote human rights and
promote human dignity across the world. And that includes in our
discussions with China, as well, and including in our discussions with
regard to Hong Kong and supporting democratic efforts there.

Q Second question. The President the other day he encouraged
governors, during his speech, that they should watch "Osama" movie,
film. We still don't have Osama, Taliban are still there operating in
Pakistan and Afghanistan, they are back there. Why he encourage them
to watch the movie on Osama? It's painful for people to bring the
memories back.

MR. McCLELLAN: I would say I think it's important for people to
realize the benefits of liberating the Afghan people from an oppressive
regime in the Taliban, and from a regime that supported and harbored
terrorists, terrorists that sought to do harm not only to America, but
our friends and allies across the world. It is a very powerful film
that really, in the President's view, had a profound impact on his
thinking.

Q Scott, Democrats in the House, at least the leader, is
suggesting that the reason why Denny Hastert is not bringing up the
two-month extension on the 9/11 Commission is because of sort of a wink
and a nod from the White House. What do you --

MR. McCLELLAN: I don't know how anyone could suggest that when the
fact is that this President has publicly stated that he is for an
extension of the 9/11 Commission, at their request. Not only have we
stated it publicly, but we've stated it privately, as well. Our views
are very well-known. And the commission said that they need another
two months to do their work, and we support them in their efforts.
Their work is very important. And that's why we've been working with
them in an unprecedented way to make sure they have the information
they need to complete their work.

Q Totally different topic. The Senate Intelligence Committee
apparently yesterday voted to subpoena the White House for documents if
you don't voluntarily turn them over in the next three weeks. Are you
planning to do that?

MR. McCLELLAN: One, I'm not aware of any formal request that has
been made. And even though the Senate Intelligence Committee does not
have jurisdiction over the White House because of a separation of
powers issue here, which we discussed earlier in regards to the 9/11
Commission, we have cooperated with their investigation. We provided
access to relevant documents and access to White House staff, as well.
And we believe we have met the needs of the committee's works. And we
understand there may be additional requests and we will be glad to
discuss those with the committee.

Q Is that a no or yes?

MR. McCLELLAN: Well, again, we'll be glad to discuss that with the
committee. I'm not aware of any formal request.

Q Could you read out the meeting with the German Chancellor
and, in particular, give us a sense of whatever discussions they had
about the Iraq contracts and the dollars?

MR. McCLELLAN: The Iraq contracts didn't come up. There was a
discussion on dollar policy, and the President reiterated our policy.
And, by the way, we will be putting out a joint statement by the two
leaders here shortly.

Q Can you characterize a little bit their personal chemistry?

MR. McCLELLAN: It was a very constructive meeting. I think you
heard directly from the President of the United States about their
relationship. We appreciate the fact that Germany is a partner in
leadership on many of our common challenges, and working to build a
better and safer world.

Q What did the Chancellor do that's so funny? (Laughter.)

MR. McCLELLAN: You can direct that question to the President the
next time you see him.

Q Scott, can I ask about Haiti? The President talked about a
multinational force, such as a stabilization force, part of the
contingency plans the Pentagon are developing. Was this part of the
discussion with Secretary Rumsfeld this morning? And, two, wouldn't,
as most multinational forces are, be mostly made up of U.S. forces?

MR. McCLELLAN: Again, I think I've addressed this matter
previously. We prepare for all contingencies. And I would not make
too much of that when I say that. I would take it for what it is.
That is appropriate planning or prudent planning that we do. But we
are committed to working toward a political solution. That's where it
lies right now, and that's where we're working with our international
partners, to bring about a democratic and peaceful and constitutional
solution to the situation in Haiti. Obviously, we have said -- and the
President has said, he said earlier today -- that we would be
supportive of an international security force going into Haiti as part
of a political solution. And so we are going to make appropriate
contingency plans.

Q That begs the question, though, how much of a troop strength
the United States could even provide to such a force considering --

MR. McCLELLAN: You're making assumptions there, Bob. I wouldn't
make those assumptions.

Q Can I follow on the U.N. story? Can you deny or confirm the
allegation that the UK did the spying at the request of the U.S.? And
secondly, The Washington Post report about the CIA practice in the
Reagan administration against Russia, is the practice about exporting
flawed technology for intelligence purposes --

MR. McCLELLAN: Well, let me -- the first part, again, on the
United Kingdom issue, I think the United Kingdom has addressed that
issue. And like the United Kingdom, like others in this
administration, I do not get into a discussion of intelligence matters,
for national security reasons. And I would not read anything into
that, one way or the other, when I say that. It's just a matter of
policy.

Q But is the U.S. still exporting flawed technology for
intelligence purposes to sabotage other countries? (Laughter.)

MR. McCLELLAN: Nice try, but -- go ahead, Les.

Q Senator Kerry was one of -- I have a two-part -- Senator
Kerry was one of only 14 members of the Senate who voted against the
Defense of Marriage Act, because, he claims, it is, in his words, gay
bashing. Yet Kerry keeps announcing that he opposes gay marriage. And
the Boston Globe now reports that he supported an amendment to the
Massachusetts Constitution to ban gay marriage. And my question: Does
the President disagree with the Bush-Cheney campaign statement that
this is "hypocritical"?

MR. McCLELLAN: The Bush-Cheney campaign is the President's
campaign.

Q So he doesn't disagree. (Laughter.)

MR. McCLELLAN: Les, I think you've heard the President's views on
marriage. You heard them earlier today. I think he stated it very
well.

Q -- about the hypocrisy, that's what I was saying.

MR. McCLELLAN: You know that if you've got campaign questions, you
can direct those to the campaign.

Q Both The New York Times and The Washington Post reviews of
"The Passion of the Christ" were very strongly negative. Despite that,
you told us the President plans to see it, as did the largest winter
opening day audience in American history. And my question: Since
these two newspapers often pan the President, like they panned "The
Passion," would you deny this is a sign of their notably waning
influence?

MR. McCLELLAN: I don't think the President has seen those
editorials, but I would just remind you that --

Q He doesn't read those papers?

MR. McCLELLAN: No, again, I said that at some point in time he
intends to see it and he is interested in seeing it.

Q But he doesn't regard those --

MR. McCLELLAN: Go ahead, Sarah.

Q Thank you. Scott, according to an Iraqi Governing Council
member, an interim charter will not be reading in time this weekend.
This member says the problem is that Islamic fundamentalist want a new
government with religion as the major part. Would that be unacceptable
to the President?

MR. McCLELLAN: Well, one of the things that was called for in the
transitional law, one of the fundamental elements of that law would be
freedom of religion. There are a number of specific rights that were
spelled out in the agreement reached on November 15th with the Iraqi
Governing Council. The actual transitional law continues to be in the
process of being drafted, and we continue to expect them to expect that
the deadline will be met. But that work remains underway.

Q Scott, if the deadline expires without an agreement, what
happens? And --

MR. McCLELLAN: Well, I don't want to speculate about that, but
obviously, they are moving forward on the transitional law and great
progress is being made. The deadline is coming up, right away, and
we'll see.

Q I mean, you must have contingency plans in place in the event
that --

MR. McCLELLAN: I think good progress is being made, and we're
hopeful that the deadline will -- the timetable will still be met.
This is part of the efforts to transfer sovereignty to the Iraqi people
on the timetable that was set out in the November 15th agreement.

Q Scott, you said that this morning the President and the
Secretary of Defense discussed one contingency, that being a political
settlement --

MR. McCLELLAN: I didn't say what the President discussed with the
Secretary of Defense. He has regular meetings with the Secretary of
Defense, and I don't tend to read those meetings out.

Q I stand corrected. But in any event, one of the
contingencies that you mentioned was the possibility of a political
settlement in Haiti. Another contingency no doubt you're preparing for
is possibly things go the other way and Port-au-Prince goes the way of
at least three other cities in Haiti at this point. In these cases,
it's fairly standard for the United States to float a Marine
expeditionary unit out to protect the embassy. Is that being done?

MR. McCLELLAN: Well, the Pentagon has already sent a team into the
embassy. There was already a team sent to protect the embassy and
protect the people in the embassy. That was already done.

Q Is the discussion of a Marine expeditionary unit --

MR. McCLELLAN: I don't typically get into discussing military
movements or deployments. I think those questions are best addressed
to the Pentagon. But they have already sent a team in to make sure
that the embassy was secure and to make sure the people in the embassy
were protected.

Q On Wednesday, at the Brookings Institution, Senator Hillary
Clinton called for a statement from the President to the effect that
the U.S. will not have become the vehicle by which women's rights in
Iraq were turned back. She said that under Saddam Hussein -- and I'll
quote -- "women had rights. They went to school, they participated in
the professions, they participated in government and business. And as
long as they stayed out of his way, they had considerable freedom of
movement." Do you agree with her assertion that women under Saddam
Hussein had more rights than they do today?

MR. McCLELLAN: I think that the former regime was one that was
oppressive of the rights of the Iraqi people. This was a regime that
brutalized the Iraqi people. We went into Iraq and liberated some 25
million Iraqis, just as we did in Afghanistan, as well. You're seeing
in Afghanistan that progress is being made and that we're moving
forward on making sure that there is greater rights for women. And we
are also moving forward on the transitional law -- the Iraqi people are
moving forward on the transitional law. It's one of the -- again, one
of the fundamental elements of that is equality. And so I think that
the Iraqi people are pleased to be free of that oppressive regime that
you mention.

Mark, this must be good.

Q Yes, it's a good one. (Laughter.) Tell us why --

MR. McCLELLAN: That's what scares me. (Laughter.)

Q Me, too. Tell us why the President only wants to give the
9/11 Commission an hour to question him.

MR. McCLELLAN: Well, Mark, let's keep in mind a couple of things.
One, this administration has provided unprecedented cooperation to the
9/11 Commission. Their work is very important, and we are working with
them in a cooperative and close manner to make sure that they have the
information they need to do their job. There's lots of ways to get
them the information they need to do their job.

And I would point out to you that it is extraordinary for a sitting
President of the United States to meet with the 9/11 Commission, a
legislative body. This is a legislative body under the law that it was
created under by the United States Congress. There are separation of
powers issues that are involved here, and that's an important
principle. Nevertheless, this President has agreed to meet in a
private session with the chairman and vice chairman because he believes
their work is important. And he looks forward to that meeting. And we
believe that we can provide the necessary information to the chairman
and vice chairman in the time period that was set aside and that they
can share that information with the rest of the commission.

Now, there were some questions brought up earlier today on this
very issue. I would point out to you that there have been more than
560 interviews, there have been more than 100 briefings, including
head-of-agency level. When DR. RICE: . Rice met with the commission,
there was a request for her to meet with all the commission, and she
gladly accepted. There was weeks, weeks of notice on that meeting, yet
only five members of the commission showed up for that meeting. There
was another NSC official that met with the commission and only four
members showed up. So I think you need to look at their past conduct
in the context of this issue that has been brought up. There's not a
single commissioner that has participated in every interview. They
depend upon others to provide them the information they need to
complete their work. And I think that's important to keep that in
context.

But again, this administration has bent over backwards to make sure
the commission has the information they need to do their job. The
chairman of the commission has stated the kind of cooperation that they
are receiving from the White House and from the administration -- more
than 2 million pages of documents; more than 60 compact disks of radar,
flight and other information; more than 800 audio cassette tapes of
interviews and other materials; more than 100 briefings, as I
mentioned; and more than 560 interviews. So we are providing a
tremendous amount of access to the commission so that they can complete
their work.

Q When would you expect an agreement on a session to be nailed
down?

MR. McCLELLAN: Obviously, we will keep you posted on those
developments.

Q So it's not this weekend?

MR. McCLELLAN: Nothing to announce, no, Wendall. Nothing to
announce.

Q If you've got even Republican senators voting in a committee
that they need to take extraordinary steps to try to get information
out of you on prewar intelligence on Iraq, and then you've got members
of the commission saying, why do we only get -- why do only the
chairman and vice chairman get to interview the President and why is it
only one hour --

MR. McCLELLAN: Look at their past conduct when people make those
comments.

Q Pardon me?

MR. McCLELLAN: I think you should look at their past conduct when
people make those comments. I just pointed out to you some facts. And
I would ask you, why are you not reporting the fact that we have
provided unprecedented cooperation to this commission? It's important
to report what we are doing to help the commission complete its work.
Because this President wants the commission to do a good and thorough
job. It's important that if they have information that can help us
prevent another 9/11 from ever happening again, that we have that
information. And that's why we're working in a spirit of cooperation
very closely with the commission.

Q The fact that these things are going on, it obviously opens
up the criticism from people like John Kerry, and even from people who
are sort of normal, everyday people out there that look at the
administration and say, why isn't the President giving us more
information? Why are --

MR. McCLELLAN: We are giving them all the information that they
have requested. And I would point you back to Chairman Keane's
interview this morning: "We have gotten a lot of cooperation from the
President." I go on to quote him: "This is one of the first
Presidents to agree to an interview. Even during the Kennedy
Commission, Lyndon Johnson wouldn't give them an interview. From day
one, when they helped" -- he was referring to the administration.
"From day one, when they helped us get our clearances expedited, they
have been helpful. We have now seen the most secret documents in the
possession of the United States government. No congressional committee
has seen those kinds of documents. We have seen them. We have been
able to take notes and they will inform our report. There hasn't been
a single thing" -- single thing, he said -- "we have asked for that
some members of the staff haven't seen. Not a single person has
refused to be interviewed," he went on to say. I think it's very
important to make sure that when there's a discussion of this, that the
facts are being reported.

Q I don't mean to be smart, but wouldn't it be safe to
hypothesize that all the commission members would show up for the
session with the President?

MR. McCLELLAN: I'm sorry?

Q Wouldn't it be safe to hypothesize that all the commission
members would show up for a session with the President?

MR. McCLELLAN: What's been agreed to is that the chairman and vice
chairman will meet with the President in private session. But, I mean,
look at their past conduct. They've had ample opportunity -- and
that's the whole point here, when I say that we have great confidence
in the chairman and vice chairman to share all that information with
the other commissioners so that they can get their -- so that they can
get their work done.

Q -- saying the commission is not committed to its task?

MR. McCLELLAN: You would have to ask those individuals that
question.

Q Are you suggesting some members of the commission are not
committed to the task?

MR. McCLELLAN: I'm not suggesting anything. I'm just -- I'm
reporting facts that I don't think are necessarily being reported in
this discussion.

Q Scott, can you articulate the reason for only wanting to
speak to the chairman and vice chairman?

MR. McCLELLAN: Well, I just talked to you about how this is an
extraordinary move by a sitting President of the United States to do
this, and how we are confident that the chairman and vice chairman will
be able to share all this information with the rest of the
commissioners. There is an important principle involved in this
discussion, and that is the separation of powers issues. This is a
legislative body.

Nevertheless, the President agreed to the request to meet with the
chairman and the vice chairman. And he looks forward to meeting with
them because he believes their work is very important. And he wants to
help them complete their work in a timely manner. I would say that we
are also working in a very timely manner to make sure that the
commission has the information they need. We are bending over
backwards to make sure that they are able to do a thorough job and
complete their work in a timely manner. And that's the way we have
worked from day one.