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ugh.. god dammit, why people are always complaining? if you dont like the finishers, dont fucking use them. if you dont like the game because you lose stats/ability because you dont wanna use it, leave the game. if you prefer standing in your room doing nothing cos everything has flaws like this, go do it. "reality sucks. thats why I dont interact with it. everything has flaws." this whole attitude is so stupid it would be awesome actually, if it happened somewhere else than in our world... or what am I not understanding here?

To be honest you seem upset for no real reason.

The topic evolved passed simple critique and became constructive and plenty of good ideas popped up from it.

Class finishers for instance are a good idea. The idea of finishers are conceptually awesome. However the current finishers are tag in attacks, that while they are animated wonderfully, they lack engagement by the player using them since it's an attack from another character besides your own.

They brought up good points for the team to look at ad they continue to flesh out the idea of finishers.

hopefully your case could be settled by someone competent...but support has never really been a shining example of efficiency.

It's sad to see another supporter go... they could easily un-ban you but we all know how inept they are at doing things that any human would do when they've wronged someone.

At least apologize, Flatops... It's the least you could do... It's not your fault that things ended up this way, but still.

Trying to personally push his case would be nice too. I mean, we all know how little power you community managers have when it comes down to important stuff like this, but to say that it's completely out of your hands without even trying to see how far you can effect the situation by speaking with someone with actual authority is just an excuse.

anyway,
you'll be missed, but if one day you are able to access your account and play again, I look forward to it. I hope you can.

Whether that's flaunting your achievements, pking your enemies, or if your boasting in politics. The community keeps the game alive for you.

If this are the reasons players stay on Wakfu then I can see why the community is dying, those reasons are selfish and only serves to please themselves and not to please others.

Think of the greater good instead of your self interest. Do not ask what the community can do to make you happy, instead you should think what you can do to make the community happy. The community should not keep the game alive for you. You should keep the game alive for the community.

Just imagine if you are a new player and the moment you step into the game you intermingle with old players who flaunt their achievements, PK you or boast of their politics. Would you stay? What is there that will make new players stay? Your post highlights why new players don't stay.

I think you missed something there.
what KKthulhu means is that the "Community keeps the game alive for you". You can't just choose a single portion of someones post and not consider the rest of their statement silly.

Here: Quote

Quote

Without community willing to help them, these new players cannot gain new information and learn about the game that they are interested in. And if the community dies down because it's lost players and no new fresh faces have come into the field, then the game dies for many of the veteran players.

That's the nice chunk you missed that supported the rest of KKthulu's post.

Anyway, an active community is what keeps the game alive. and that's true. You're correct that everyone doing their part will positively impact the server as a whole. however, don't make the mistake of assuming people do these things from the goodness of their hearts or for something as pointless as the "greater good".

If a players gameplay experience will be 100% better by actively making the community a better place for other people and in turn for themselves, then of course people would do something for the community since it would directly affect them as well.

Selfish motives that benefit others are seen as unselfish. Even though people do nice things for others for their own merit and wants rather than just for being "nice". Take me for instance. I help folks all the time but not because I am selfless, but because seeing other people achieve something brings me great joy. However I don't seem to think much of my own achievements at all and they mean next to nothing to me. I get employee of the month = "meh". A co-worker gets it and I'm flapping around acting like a dummy all proud of them and stuff...it's weird. Enough about that though, it doesn't matter.

Point is ... yeah we all need to make this server thrive. Ankama devs aren't playing this game with the community, we are. So we can't really think much of their lack of efforts to make things livable anymore if we aren't going to put in extra effort. Though others can chime in and ask "why should we?" and I ask why not? Got nothing better to do than log in and complain at alma or the forums? Might as well help someone and put that energy into enriching someones gameplay so that they can enrich yours as well.

Not directed at you but at people being negative to this topic just to be contrary for being contraries sake.

Wakfu has and will never have pvp rules that make sense. Wakfu pvp is griefing and nothing more. It has no real rules and people just run back 2 seconds after they die (and I don't think ankam is smart enough to change that)

of course there's lots to do, but once they are done they are done. Leveling spells is also on that list of things to do at cap.

People do play for fun...I assume everyone here is here because the game is fun for them, or was and are hopeful for a revival in the near future.

People like pvp for fun too...some like to pk for fun as well. Giving players the tools to interact with one another in many different ways is this games highest charm.

Best way to keep everything but standardize combat between those who want to fight fair and differentiate them from those who want to be a jerk would be to split pvp as open (pking,wars,guard vs outlaw) and structured (arena combat, duels).

Limiting where ranks and merit are distributed and dictated is a fine start to having a decent ruleset for pvp. It's like a boxing match and a street fight style rule where combat in the arena is rewarded (boxing) and combat anywhere else is just petty stuff/pking (street fight). Wars and guards vs outlaws are the middle ground of the two where something does need to be gained from partaking in the activity. However, merit and glory should be left to normal pvp.

Dropping pvp is nothing more than a quality of life bandage for people who don't want to be forced into engaging in the activity. It adds nothing to their game play other than a sigh of relief.

Dropping pvp means dropping nation relations, wars and guards versus outlaws along with the pking that people don't like.

The real problem here is how small the servers are population wise. The Pking wasn't such a huge deal in open beta since there were so many people playing that the instances were spread around and only really focused on popular zones (still does). However with things being so tight s far as population goes, pking now seems too concentrated, when in fact, people get attacked more because there are only so many people on at a time, and only so many popular zones that players flock to. There isn't enough happening in different areas so the jerks all go to where the people are.

Though the small population can be blamed on a combination of pking and ankamas wakfu teams own lackluster turnout for content over the years. It's hard to get things going when the team is shuffling around so much. Hopefully they are settled now. Creating anything is hard and developing content isn't easy at all. I hope they have a crackerjack team to work with Dy7.

there's no rules against swearing... in-game. Getting by the "censors" in the game is nothing to even care about. Young minds are susceptible, this is true, but public school exists. You'll hear plenty of foul language there.

--''-'-edit-----

Oooooh, I feel dumb.
That's a npc character in game? Huh...

This post has been edited by Christian-CAO - December 09, 2016, 16:27:39.

Just drop pvp, it does more harm to this game than good. Just focus on the NICHE that this game was originally based on.

The Niche that this game was originally based on involved players interacting with each other on grand scale. PvP is a part of that. People can play wakfarmville or do dungeons at all times. They not going anywhere. Dropping PvP won't do anything substantial for players in the long run. If people want a shallow experience of dungeons and only dungeons then they can keep doing that.

Once you get all the equipment and items from a dungeon, there would be no reason to ever go back to it ever again. Especially at level cap. Leveling up is a goal with a finite finish-line.

Player generated content, like PvP, is timeless and is what keeps games alive for the long haul.

You should check the game out a bit more for yourself before deciding whether or not you should put money towards it.

It's a decision only you can decide that is worth it since only you know your own playing habits.

It's worth it to get a booster only if you have "time" to make it truly worth your while.

Getting your moneys worth out of the game can only be done if you manage your time around the game and give yourself ample opportunities to play.

If you have allot on your plate and can only log in for short bursts or every other day/ weekends, then I'd say don't.

However, if you have some free time built up and want to spend it doing something here, then go for it and grab a booster.

Honestly, it's your money and you can do whatever you want.

The game has problems for sure, but the initial charms of the game are still here and it is fun. Just make sure that you have a community of players in your circle to play with and you can enjoy the game to its absolute fullest.

So I guess, play a bit more first and see where you stand and then go ahead and buy a booster to see the difference in returns since that's the only thing a booster does for you.

All of me wishes that they gave additional perks for getting boosters rather than just putting your returns back to the old normal rates before free to play happened.

Good job being so negative on the front page comments so we can show all the new NYCC players that we're a terribly entitled community~

well it's not like this promotion isn't "nice".

Stuff is always nice and all, but new stuff is always more appreciated than recycled "limited" stuff.

As far as cosmetics go it's usually almost always prioritized like this

Costumes

Emotes

Pet stuff

costumes are always more appreciated than the other two options, then it trickles down to emotes and then finally to petstuff, though, costumes for pets and mounts still fall into the category of Costumes and in the subcategory of petstuff. Still, costumes are way more marketable than anything else they could ever present to the community since they have the most resale value and have actual economic presence in-game unlike our other options. As always, new is always better.Anyway~ it's a decent promo, but I can see why people brush it off with crass comments about the company.

I still don;'t understand why ankama decided to make every class able to make portals with this emote. Like, how on earth we are even doing them if we are not eliotropes. The failed ankama decisions... this emote should be exlusive for eliotrope class.

They could add things like real tails and awesome ponytails without trying to stick so much to the template they use for toons If they really wanted to... but they won't because that takes time and effort. And we all know how much they hate doing things that require that, jokes but not really.

This post has been edited by Christian-CAO - December 09, 2016, 16:27:40.

They could have pushed their face/skull designs to be more...not dumb looking, but it's whatever.

I mean if they really couldn't think of a way to diversify skull designs for human skulls...they could have gone totally animal instead.

I want a cow skull sram or a raven skull sram or just a demon skull I don't care. They could go Candy skull dia de los muertos style for the hell of it. Even Jack skellington stitch face if they wanted to keep the skeleton theme alive.

or maybe just ones with hoods like from dofus.

This post has been edited by Christian-CAO - December 09, 2016, 16:27:40.

Honestly it also speaks a nit about how clothing works in rel life. Options are there but true variety is severely lacking when it comes to clothing for men in comparison to clothing for women.

Though I'm pretty sure that's more or less because society is predominantly male oriented so things are the way they are because a bunch of men decided it would be the way it is.

Though to stop myself from rambling too deep into this I'll cut off there.

Honestly we all need more clothing and hair options apart from costumes. This is something the team can chew on once they get the game completely back on track and extra quality of life stuff like this can be touched on in detail later on.

Make it so that in order to get merit, you must fight in the arena. The ecaflip arena exists for a reason. This will do two things

Makes the ecaflip areas the "hotspot" Ankama wanted it to be.

Place the pvp scene in a focused area, making the community more organised and unified.

Wars and guards versus outlaws should be handled on a different level. One that involves citizenship points. However that should be handled by a separate and currently nonexistent system. The Government and Nation systems are still waiting for that revamp. Citizenship points as they are currently, are useless and need a use.

Now outside of those situations, all that is left are petty disputes and Player killing.

I am an advocate for keeping the open pvp system. It's one of the key features in the game that allow for another level of interaction between players.

While it can be and has been abused maliciously, I feel that it should stay in place. It makes the game that much more complex when people can actually put emotion into what they are doing.

Nothing else in the game can grab a player emotionally. Only other players can do that. However happiness is fleeting and actual "enjoyment" gets lost after a while when your in game experience hits a certain point. It mostly ends up kind of numb.

Now, im not saying that you cant love the game and enjoy your time with others here. When you have great friends, it is so wonderful to be able to enjoy their company. Those emotions are between one another and the community consensus can agree that it's the best highlight of the game.

However, controversy and adversity is another highlight in the games community that allows for players to express those emotions tied to it as well.

I praise wakfu for allowing players to experience a multitude of emotions as they interact with one another on a daily basis. Only allowing players to feel "happy" is nice, but sometimes more bitter experiences are needed for those other more sweet moments to really be valued.

Without the more "malicious" tools at players fingertips, we'd probably see allot more instances of account theft and system abuse. Giving the trolls something to play with in the game may keep those cases to a minimum... but that's just me grasping at straws.

Honestly, the abuse of the open pvp system has caused far too many casualties. As a result, players get frustrated and choose to leave rather than try. In an age where giving up and choosing the path of least resistance is prominent, it is usually the first choice players make.

Couple that with the disatisfactory state of the game for some, and we have an ever dwindling population for the community, at least on international servers. No one wants anyone else to pack up and leave sooner than expected, so I can see why people want the open pvp system abolished.

I talk too much.

This post has been edited by Christian-CAO - December 09, 2016, 16:27:40.

Rancid and putrid are flavors. The fact that they're flavors shouldn't be an argument for them to stick around. The goal here is to throw away all the bad flavors and leave in the good ones. Sounds to me like you enjoy angering people, which just so you know, is not what keeps people's interest in any MMO ever.

The thread is about unfair PKing, sure, but this discussion is still in topic. We're pointing out why the fact that a game allows players to be assholes and sour others' gameplay experience should be kept in the game, should be changed, or shoudl the players constantly ruining others' game experience be sanctioned for it.

If I could change something regarding PvP, it would be that there's certain content in the game that you're allowed to participate in/receive benefits from, but only if you have your wings up. This would include nation bonuses, an area's clan member bonuses, the ability to vote during elections and be selected for a government position, and the ability to duel. However, if you have wings down, you cannot be attacked no matter what happens.

I'd also change some of the governor's laws, as well as add some new ones. One that I would add would allow the governor to limit entry to sewers/caves and other lawless areas in the nations to only guards, and those who don't have their wings up would become outlaws for doing so. This gives the governor the tools to combat botters, but also to keep citizens away from areas where trouble would regularly happen.

In order for a proper government system to work however, the Jail system would need to be overhauled as well. The bigger a crime spree, the more kamas you have to pay to "serve your sentence" lawfully by going to your nation's jail and paying for damages. If you get caught by a guard as an outlaw in your own nation, you get sent to jail. If you escape from jail, you're not allowed to interact with any of your nation's zaaps, dragosteeds or resources until your jail timer has counted down. If you get caught as an outlaw in another nation by a guard from said nation, you lose your ability to travel to that nation at all, even by using the boat, until a timer goes down to zero (which would correlate to the size of your crime spree).

There's ways of making the game better, Christian-CAO. There's no need to keep a system that only brings out the worst in people. You may enjoy reading about it, but what if I was the one PKing you whenever I saw you, but never actually hunted you down (which would mean by the TOS that I'm not harassing you)? Maybe I'm roleplaying an evil character and you seem like a good guy to me, so from the get-go we're mortal enemies, and me being lv200 I would have no issues destroying you every encounter. Does that really sound like fun?

Putrid and rancid are indeed flavors for sure, but I wouldn't be so quick to just toss out bad tastes when describing the open world pvp system. It's a "necessary" tool. I can't think of a better way for players to deal with one another on their own terms that covers all options entirely like this. Having the option to be a jerk is just that, an option, one out of many. People don't have to utilize it the way they have been but considering that talking, and mediation and compromise are also options...violence is always a neat option to have. Tossing away all "bad flavors" and leaving only good ones works when everything is utilized as intended. However, the tools or rather in this case spices, presented to us; don't have flavors until we put them to use. Depending on how it's used and how much is used, any flavor can end up tasting putrid.

Off the tongue train for a second, I don't like angering people. I just like people, all types. The more passionate the person the more drawn i am to them. Just like in here I love how much you guys love the game and want what's best for it. However, I'm one of those lame-o-s who thinks that conflict can be a positive experience and serve as another medium for the community to actively interact with one another. I'm not saying that I 100% approve of pking. I don't pk people. However, I can see why people who do it...do it. You all do too, but rather than mark them as selfish individuals (which I mean, most are if not selfish) I consider them active members of the community trying to interact with other players and get them connected into their activity. Does it work? Nope. Will it ever? Probably not. Does it get people to band together and form a hate group for your kind? Yes, yes it does. Mission accomplished? Mission accomplished. Trade bridge battles in 5th bond and whole guilds being created and joining together to fight against a common enemy. Massive outcries from the server when markets go haywire due to corrupt government shenanigans. Wars fought over the dumbest of personal disputes. You remember those times, and I'm sure you also remember how the community would act back then due to it. We'd piss and moan about it, while those with the ability to make things happen made things...happen. I'm not pro making people miserable, but I am most certainly not against letting people attack people at the drop of a hat either. No one except a jerk/ roleplayer who's too far gone does this kind of thing. Most people talk things out. Most folks actively seek for the difficult path called compromise and empathy. It's a very small amount of people who actively make it their business to pull people into their pace. Those individuals who excessively use the tools given to us irresponsibly are to be punished for sure. However, tossing aside those tools just simply for existing just doesn't speak to me the same way it may to you.

Ideally for me wings only have their place in the Nation as well. Tied to pvp content: guards and in relation to that wars. It's your nations colors and of course they'll be used in "honor". However wings or no wings, players shoudl still be able to fight amongst themselves. Where they fight should dictate whether or not they receive any kind of benefit from pvp. Out in the open? if your wings aren't up and your not in a war/ fighting an actual outlaw you don't get anything for killing someone. However, duke it out in ecaflipasdadapulis and you get merit. Fight outlaws outside of that and gain cp and merit. Pking should get players nothing, since the act in of itself isn't for any real profit. This way, everyone who wants to do pvp will be in one place, giving them a far more unified and structured community. It also separates the sportsmen from the scum. I lost my train of thought somewhere and ended up talking about something entirely off topic.

I know there are plenty of ways to make the game better, but the open part of the pvp system in place is honestly one of those "key features" that ties things together. Sure certain people abuse it, maliciously in fact, but that doesn't mean it should be thrown away and be branded as bad. Conflicts based around pking have driven away many of my friends and both of my family members from this game and time and time again I see more and more players coming and going for many different reasons. However, there are still victims of excessive pking who leave and who have left that I'm sure you and many others know about. Everybody has been hunted down before. I'm sure you've been on a kos list as well. I've been killed plenty enough to know when and where I should be and shouldn't be and what time of day. You know what happened the last time I got pked? I came out of the situation with a few new acquaintances and dedarm. I can either choose to be upset, choose to roll with it, or choose to enjoy the attention for that brief moment. Most just get upset. You gave out an example for the extreme, and yes I've already enjoyed that little experience for a brief moment in time, but that was more of a location thing rather than a personal thing. However, if you were a roleplayer and a good one at that, I would most certainly enjoy the interaction. If you hadn't noticed, there's nothing to do but grind current;y and with so little roleplaying going on that actual passes as roleplaying, I'd have to take what I can get. It's the best part of the game. I love it when other people enjoy playing this game. Roleplayers enjoy the game on an entirely different level from the average player. It's not the destination but the journey for them. I love it. You do that and I guarantee you'd make me happy, but mostly because I always love making new friends. You'd just happen to end up being a friend who happens to kill me on a regular basis. Now, killing other people constantly around me wouldn't be too nice since then they'd be upset, but I digress, I'd be a happy camper. Those aren't just petty words, these are facts. My toons range from 110-150, I've got nothing but time on my hands and I'm not in any rush, I've been playing since late 2011 into early 2012 and am only still at this level range. I didn't get to level 100 until late 2013. I am a super casual, but hard core roleplayer who enjoys helping folks and making friends, believe me when I say that I'm far too lazy to get upset in this game.

This isn't about me though, I'm masochistic anyway. This is about the health of the games community. So back to that... Is it really that bad? I mean, I'm all for keeping things peaceful, but the old joys of being killed while mining in the dark or getting too close to someones wheat patch will be gone forever. And I don't really want to live in a world where a crazy farmer can't kill trespassers. Well anyway, I guess I am pretty selfish when it comes to this topic. Maybe it is time to let go. no one is really using the system to its full potential anymore... at least there are still evil governors somewhere out there willing to rile things up instead. I'm still a advocate for confrontation, but I guess it's time to squash this one.

Quote (Gunnerwolfang @ 15 September 2016 07:56)

And what will you gain from all that? What will you gain from all the time that you waste PKing random without wings?

A game with open PvP is a game that is anti-PvMers. It shouts "PvMers KEEP OUT!". How many PvM players do you think stayed?

I used to think I will play Wakfu when I get a new computer, guess what, I already have a new computer... But seeing that the game is open world PvP, I'd rather not waste my time. And day by day, more and more PvMers are leaving... Goodluck to the Wakfu community, but the future is dark, and pretty soon there will only be a few players staying, not because of all the bugs, or the lack of contents, but because they can't PvM in peace.

A game with open PvP is a game with options.

a game with many different ways to enjoy yourself.

a game where players don't just have to think about their inner circle but their community as a whole

A game where players have to worry about where they are and what time of day it is.

A game full of conflict which breeds controversy and petty drama.

a game with those things sounds like something is always happening somewhere and there are many different things happening. From growing crops to fighting amazing bosses. Selling goods and being a merchant. From enforcing the laws to protecting what is yours. Giving evertone the opportunity to make a multitude of choices with little to no limitations on what kind of route you can go, even bringing in a forbidden option that people can't do in reality without severe consequences...and that is...murder.

PvM is great, it's the meat of the game. Have you ever had meat without spices before? Not too great, I've gotta say. A little bland y'know? We get features that need tweaking like the nations, government, crafting and pvp. the depth of that last feature in particular is all kinds of fun. You get duels for merit, guards vs outlaws, nation wars and of course pking. So many things to do I can see why you all wouldn't mind seeing pking getting tossed out.

You should come and play the game regardless of pkers.

Quote (Gunnerwolfang @ 15 September 2016 07:56)

because they can't PvM in peace.

It really is a shame that they can't. Less than a hand full of players are keeping the majority of the server from interacting with content of their level? Seems a little exaggerated but you aren't wrong. People have quit over being attacked too many times. I personally blame the players who left of their own volition, the pking players for taking things too far, and myself for liking open pvp too much.