Discussion of various forms of Advance Fee Fraud, including application fees for loans that never materialize, self-liquidating loan scams, as well as mortgage elimination scams and related debt elimination scams [Nigerian-type scams should go in the Nigerian 4-1-9 forum]

There has arisen a popular new Facebook page called Mortgages as Copyright Derivatives. Yes, that's right, due to bad reasoning, a complete lack of legal schooling, and a desire to avoid reality, a group of nitwits has congregated on the internet - Facebook no less to discuss this inane concept. Their self anointed leader, Ken Dost, offers random references to meaningless supposed legal points, all designed to prove that a mortgage is like a copyright, or a trademark, or a patent (he seems a bit confused about this), and because of this, one can therefore get out of said mortgage.

Mr. Dost has quite a few followers, and posts regularly to their personal pages as well. One of his psuedolegal followers is an individual named Ron ODonnell, who appears to bear the same name as a participant in a very sovereign-esque group named the California 18. The Cal 18 did a series of videotapes where they plumbed the bottom of lake sovrun, with everything from birth bonds to fake lawyer bonds to everything else the internet has to offer in the realm of pseudo legal nonsense.

I'm not sure if anyone has ever tried this new brand of gibberish in Court yet, but I'm dying to see someone try.

I can't wait until some loon comes up with the idea that mortgages, trust deeds, or other bills are simply "letters of marque" created under admiralty law and that all one needs to do is to avoid paying is to show that that they are not merchantmen at sea and thus cannot be subject to privateers who are licensed by the government.

"I could be dead wrong on this" - Irwin Schiff

"Do you realize I may even be delusional with respect to my income tax beliefs? " - Irwin Schiff

"SO HERE IS THE QUESTION FOLKS......How the hell is it possible to foreclose on a paper document that was destroyed by the conversion to an intellectual property Trademark product which was not disclosed and intentionally concealed behind a public database of the United States Patents and Trademarks OfficeSO IN A NUTSHELL -------- WHAT AGREEMENT YOUR HONOR?????"

I mean, seriously, what the heck does any of that mean? I think his followers must be the type who were always so confused in school that they assume anyone using big words must be saying something meaningful. Copyrights and trademarks, oh my!

"SO HERE IS THE QUESTION FOLKS......How the hell is it possible to foreclose on a paper document that was destroyed by the conversion to an intellectual property Trademark product which was not disclosed and intentionally concealed behind a public database of the United States Patents and Trademarks OfficeSO IN A NUTSHELL -------- WHAT AGREEMENT YOUR HONOR?????"

I mean, seriously, what the heck does any of that mean? I think his followers must be the type who were always so confused in school that they assume anyone using big words must be saying something meaningful. Copyrights and trademarks, oh my!

Allow me to translate:

""SO FEAR UPWARD-FACING ARM HAIR PEOPLE......Green planes will make bicycles revert to bed springs on large birch-bark canoes. Smart ownership forms will teleport to an event horizon a few inches behind fuzzy dice and hide in handlebars and wingtip shoes. SO AS A NUT IN A SHELL -------- WHY DO WATER-WINGS PULL BURNT MATCHES????????

There, does that help?

My job is done here. You're welcome.

The Honorable Judge Roy BeanThe world is a car and you're a crash-test dummy.The Devil Makes Three

Ken Dost managed to confuse himself by latching onto the 2009 mortgage for Salem Media Group - a radio broadcaster and book/magazine/internet publisher - so Salem, naturally, would generate copyrights (and maybe trademarks and patents) in the course of its particular business, and made a point of including in its 2nd mortgage agreement how those would be disposed of if the mortgage were foreclosed. Naturally, the vast majority of Dost's readership is concerned only about the mortgage on their family cabin so no such provisions are likely in their mortages.

So, our boy Ken is onto something new - the idea that some kind of personal hygiene product for women, which deals with (ahem) moisture "down below" and somehow he read the patent for it, which means he (in his mind) discovered it was linked to "human trafficking" and is proof of your "limitless value", and therefore, "the idea of getting evicted is so far out of the realm of reality...because all you have to do is put back the debt instrument to market and take credit back to you"

So, got that wimmins, Mr. Dost done discovered that they are securitizing your fluids, mm-kay, and that is bad. Or something. So don't, like, evict him, or he's gonna go sovcit. Or something.