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Author
Topic: MEMORIAL SERVICE (Read 36241 times)

I received an email today from the Rev. Ray Neal, pastor of the Emerald City MCC in Seattle. They worship in the Chapel of University Temple UMC located on the University campus, about 5 miles from our hotel. He said it would be OK to use the chapel for our memorial service on Friday morning, Aug. 19. What do you think?

I also sent an email to the LIFELONG AIDS ALLIANCE, the local ASO asking for assistance in holding our memorial service. I have not heard back from them.

Another option would be to hold the service quietly and discreetly in a public park or setting, like we did in Mexico City. I am not familiar with Seattle, though, so I don't know if this is possible. If any of you live near or around Seattle and have some suggestions (ahem, Bug ) let us know.

Cal Anderson was a state rep then a state senator who died from AIDS. He was an openly gay lesislator and fierce champion for his constituents. He was also a personal friend.

"Recognized by Forbes.com as one of the nationís best parks in 2009, Cal Anderson Park includes a fountain, texture pool and reflecting pool, promenade paths, landscaping, a shelterhouse, a plaza, a children's play area, a wading pool, a lighted sports field, and a number of oversize chess boards. This open park invites walking, sitting, reading, contemplation, informal sports in the meadow, and organized sports on the athletic field."

"In September 2005, the park reopened with greater open space, a new water feature, improved play areas, athletic facilities, restrooms, and meeting space."

I don't know anything about the renovations or meeting space, this all occured after I left Seattle. But it's a possibility. It's also a short bus ride from the hotel.

I am open to both locations as well. The advantage of interior space is inclement weather (but it never rains in Seattle right?) but the park also has a viable emotional connection. Open, of course, to other ideas too. Getting to and from the site is always an issue too...the easier, the better.

The address of the hotel is 1531 7th Ave. The park is located at 1635 11th Ave. So it looks like you go down 1 block and over 4 blocks. I think our only option to the chapel at the University is by bus.

Now I'm not sure how the bus system works but 'Peak' fares are $2.50. I'm assuming this is a 1 way fare. Peak Hours are Monday to Friday 6-9 a.m. and 3-6 p.m. Off-peak fares are $2.25.

There is a Downtown Seattle Ride that looks like it borders on 6th Ave. The Central Link Light Rail is not a part of the Ride Free Area.

The address of the hotel is 1531 7th Ave. The park is located at 1635 11th Ave. So it looks like you go down 1 block and over 4 blocks.

it's not too far away; but a bit more than 5 blocks. I like the idea of the park for several reasons:1) not that hip on churches and the feel of those kinds of memorial services2) communing with nature and friends has a more organic feel3) the link to C. Anderson - a fellow pozzie who has passed away from this disease - especially with this being a memorial service

I would also prefer the park or other private non-religiously affiliated space over the church. I find religious activities no to my likely (especially Christian ones (bad experiences)) and would not like to go to a Christian church or any religious facility. Unless you can find a Buddhist monastery, lol. To be completely honest, if it were held at the church, I would probably skip out, and I'd hate to do that. Churches bother me that much!

Probability of rain in August is very, very low, so the park is a fairly safe bet as far as weather is concerned. What will be more of a challenge in summer is finding some corner of it quiet enough that you can hear yourself think.

Probability of rain in August is very, very low, so the park is a fairly safe bet as far as weather is concerned. What will be more of a challenge in summer is finding some corner of it quiet enough that you can hear yourself think.

Lipo makes a good point, I hadn't even thought about that when I suggested the park. There is also Volunteer Park on Capitol Hill, which is larger and may be easier to find a more private setting. Me personally, I'm not opposed to having it in a chapel, we've done it before (Montreal) and it was probably the most moving one we've had.

I thought I would throw my two cents in as I live in Seattle and may be able to shed some light on the places you have chosen.

Cal Anderson Park is centrally located. It is on Capitol Hill which is close to many gay establishments. However, in August if it is sunny it will be very crowded. Also, Seattle has a large homeless population and Cal Anderson park can be a location of a lot of transients. They may interfere with your service. Just FYI

The church in the U. District, while technically is only 5 miles away is kind of a pain in the ass to get too. You need to cross a bridge and if you plan on taking transit, in the summer, its just not something that would sound fun. If you took a cab, due to traffic, it would prob end up being about $20 each way. Seattle is small but its condensed and traffic can litterally come to a stand still.

There is a church on Capitol Hill that is very gay friendly. Infact they have a large rainbow flag flowing on the outside of the church and it is much closer to your loaction. It is called the All Pilgrims church. Their website is

First of all I see nothing wrong with having a Memorial Service in a Chapel, our memorial Service has nothing to do with religion, I wonder how many Non-Catholics have visited St Peters Basilica because of the peace and beauty it has to offer.

Leatherman can you explain what you mean by "and the feel of those kinds of memorial services" seriously, I have no idea what you mean...we will be conducting the service not the Church.

As Rab said we had one of our services in a Chapel in Montreal and it worked well, also if we want to use candles then I would say outdoors is a no no, just something to think about when planning the service.

The All Pilgrims Church sound like a nice place if someone could check it out, explain who and why we do our yearly services and see if we can get a good price for one of the meeting rooms, if everyone is so against standing in a Chapel.

I have double-checked and the 3 parks mentioned (Cal Anderson, Volunteer,and Olympic SculpturePark) do not have picnic tables. Maybe a bench or two and certainly restroom facilities but no tables. I sent an email to ALL Pilgrims Church asking about their rooms (rates and availability.)

Odyssey....I have sent 2 emails to the local ASO (Lighthouse) and have not received a reply. It was an ASO who helped us in Boston.

First of all I see nothing wrong with having a Memorial Service in a Chapel, our memorial Service has nothing to do with religion, I wonder how many Non-Catholics have visited St Peters Basilica because of the peace and beauty it has to offer.

Yep, gotta agree with Jan on that. And Buggy, that church sounds pretty cool.

Odyssey....I have sent 2 emails to the local ASO (Lighthouse) and have not received a reply. It was an ASO who helped us in Boston.

Robert

Robert, you might wanna try calling them, the one in Vegas wouldnt respond to my emails either Might also want to mention to them that our group usually gives a couple bucks each as a doantion to the ASO if we can use their place. ASO's love donations and will usually do anything for them

Ah, the messy process of developing a consensus! Of course, we value knowing everyone's preferences. Sometimes it is hard to hear a preference when it is categorical (i.e. under no circumstances will I stand in a park.) It has been my privilege to lead the memorial service in Mexico City (outdoors, way too windy and noisy), Boston and Las Vegas. Jan correctly mentions that we conduct the entire service and we bend over backwards to accommodate the wide variety of spiritual and philosophical preferences and differences. For many of us, it is a very touching and moving hour together and we find it healing and inspiring. The Montreal service happened in a Catholic church (imagine that!) and our plaque to this day remains on their wall. Ease of getting to the site is probably the most important consideration (well it will matter the most to us once we are there.) Nevertheless, all thoughts and feelings are certainly welcome and hopefully we won't get sidetracked trying to develop a consensus.

To those who are unsure about the church. I have been to the All Pilgrims church. It is very open. Very welcoming. Off the topic but I went to services there a couple times with a friend and I wish you could have seen all the people sitting in the pews. There were old women who had lived in the neighborhood going to that church their entire lives sitting next to tranny's all dressed in their sunday best's. It was a sight. If you dont get an email back call them.

Leatherman can you explain what you mean by "and the feel of those kinds of memorial services" seriously, I have no idea what you mean...we will be conducting the service not the Church.

I think part of our misunderstanding comes from our positions in life. As a straight woman you have been spared being the brunt of many religions' demonization of homosexuals and don't necessarily equate churches with hatefulness, intolerance, homophobia, etc.

Having been reared here in the "Bible Belt" of the States (yrs and yrs in fundy Baptist churches, schools, and colleges), where the preachers preach about how you'll burn in hell and how queers deserve AIDS, where parents disown and disavow their "sinful" children, where they believe enough prayer and bible memorization can "cure" you of your homosexuality, it's easy to feel a bit unsettled about anything that smacks of religion - even down to their building whether it's called a church or chapel.

Many of my friends have suffered great emotion and physical trauma at the hands of the "religious" people who inhabit the churches here. (Part of this US fundamental religious homophobia inspired the Ugandan "kill the gays" bill). Unlike many of my friends who have taken a active anti-religious stance (like many have even here in these forums), I personally believe that if you can find some peace in this world through religion, then more power to you but please don't try to push it on me. I don't mind people speaking about their religion; I'm just not going to chat about it or visit their church - no matter how open and accepting - because I don't believe in any of those religious myths. Because I try to distinguish myself from the hypocrisy I see in so many "religious" people, I try to avoid religion and religious places as much as possible.

After each of my partners passed away, to express my grief and to say thank you to the nurses one last time, I politely attended the yearly Hospice memorials (honoring those that passed away under their care) even though the services were held in the Catholic church which sponsored both the Hospital and Hospice. I only attended one vigil sponsored by the local agency that handled Ryan White funds because they consistently held them in a local Presbyterian church. However when they moved their candlelight vigil to the park outside of President McKinley's monument/tomb, I attended every year as did many others who had chosen not to attend while the service was held in a church.

Of course, in the end, I thought we were just trying to get a general consensus of who would prefer what. I didn't realize I should have explained why. I would prefer a non-religious setting for the general reason that most religions are anti-gay and do not deserve my support or approval. I would prefer a park because I like the outdoors and nature; and I find my comfort and solace better when communing in that kind of venue. Of course I'm not adamant about my choice. After 25 yrs in those Baptist venues, it's not like I don't know how to behave in church.

In the long run with all the partners, friends, and family that we've lost - not to mention our fellow members like Moffie, Ric and Etay that we've lost since the last gathering - it's not so much about the site for our gathering as much as the meaning of our gathering.

My vote is for the Pilgrims Church , it sounds like a nice place . I'm not religious but I do admire architecture so I personally think churches are cool . I will even chip in to buy leatherman one of those Dixie cups so the wind wont blow his candle out if he wants to wait for us in the parking lot .

There is a church on Capitol Hill that is very gay friendly. Infact they have a large rainbow flag flowing on the outside of the church and it is much closer to your loaction. It is called the All Pilgrims church. Their website is

Leatherman...Before you went off on one of your "it's all about me" rants you should have read what Bug had to say instead of mouthing off about how you don't like going to church, about how hateful churches are, blah blah blah..and what the hell Uganda has to do with our AMG is beyond me..and don't bother answering, I asked a simple question ..but obviously it was too bloody hard for you to give me a straight answer...it's our service, we conduct it and the last I heard none of those attending are homophobics...Jesus Christ!!!

*Modified to replace a word that didn't belong in our Memorial thread.

In the long run with all the partners, friends, and family that we've lost - not to mention our fellow members like Moffie, Ric and Etay that we've lost since the last gathering - it's not so much about the site for our gathering as much as the meaning of our gathering.

I am quoting this part of your post because I think it is a key thing for all to keep in mind.

While I, too, rarely go into churches (pretty much only for weddings and funerals at this point in my life), it really doesn't matter where this memorial is held because it is our own. It is run by us, attended by us and will be our group standing there with tears running down our faces.

At the end of the day, we need to make a practical choice as to where to hold this memorial. While a park seems ideal in the abstract -- weather, distance and potential intrusion by others have to be considered. This disease has taken much from us all and we have lost many -- let's NOT turn the planning of a memorial gathering into a fight amongst ourselves.

Leatherman...Before you went off on one of your "it's all about me" rants

I knew I should have just ignored you. Quite frankly we were asked about whether we liked a park venue or a church venue and my choice was a park. Why you had to question my choice, rather than just accept it at face value is beyond me - especially when you didn't question other people who also chose a park venue.

I asked a simple question ..but obviously it was too bloody hard for you to give me a straight answer

Since you called out my choice and asked for an explanation, I tried to be civil and give you my reasoning; but now you've gone and gotten all pissy even about that. I'm sure other people were able to read my post and understand about the contention between churches and homosexuality, and why those kinds of places would not be my top choice. Sheesh, there's no pleasing you is there? I can't just give my choice, and I can't explain it when you ask me to either.

Why do you even bother to interact with me at all when you've made it abundantly clear in the past year that you do not like me? Can't you just ignore me? I ignore you just fine until you make comments to me or about about my posts. I tried to respond nicely to your questioning of my choice of venue, hoping that maybe, for a change, we could could get along; but god knows I've learned now it really isn't even worth my time trying to be nice and replying to you since you're just always going to be rude to me in response.

just to be clear for everyone, I prefer a park setting but a church or another venue is fine also.

This was never that big of a deal except that most organized religions have been anti-gay. Just like I boycott Target and Cracker Barrel for being discriminatory (I don't actively protest against them, I just don't patronize them), I usually avoid churches too and leave those people to their own devices. However if a church is going to be welcoming to us, I would always respond in kind to their gesture of friendship.

This was never that big of a deal except that most organized religions have been anti-gay.

I can certainly understand your resentment towards churches due to your bad experiences. But just because they a place has "church" in their name doesnt necessarily mean they are going to hold you down and throw holy waater on you to exorcise the gay demons. Check out the MCC Churches in San Antonio and Austin (and probably everywhere)..I've been to both and they are quite lovely places.

We are a denomination of Christian Churches called the Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches (UFMCC). The Fellowship believes in including all people, regardless of sexual orientation, gender, race or other previous denominational affiliation. While our primary outreach in the United States is to the gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered community, our doors are open to all

Even the All Pilgrims Churchof Seattle says ..."people of all colors, ages,economic circumstances, sexual orientations, gender or transgender identities," Heck they have a big Rainbow flag out front

I'm not trying to sway anybody here, but If we cant get a spot at the ASO, then the church may be a viable option and if so it's nothing to be afraid of

And even if we have to have the service in a church Gary does an amazing job in making the service inclusive to everyone, regardless of faith or no faith.

I'm sorry, but I really object to holding the ceremony in a church. I feel like we're rushing into this. There hasn't even been time given to us to come up with alternative venues. I'd like a little bit to research some places we could hold it (other than the churches or a park). Seriously! If it were a matter of making sure a member in a wheelchair could attend, would you ignore that? I'm not trying to be a jerk, its just a serious issue for me.

And even if we have to have the service in a church Gary does an amazing job in making the service inclusive to everyone, regardless of faith or no faith.

-Will

I agree wholeheartedly, our very own "Angel in America"..

Robert... glad you heard back from them, and so soon, that is very encouraging.

Normally we have our Memorial Service on the Friday prior to the Meet and Greet, not sure if everyone would like to keep it that way, it seems to have worked well in the past, but look forward to hearing everyone's suggestions.

I think whatever location is finalized for the Memorial Service it will be perfect. Hopefully, we can remember that the Memorial Service is about honoring, remembering, and memorializing those we have lost and is not in the least bit about us.Church, park, synagogue, sidewalk, etc, etc, --- it is about them - those we loved, those we miss - not about us.

Church, park, synagogue, sidewalk, etc, etc, --- it is about them - those we loved, those we miss - not about us.

Agreed, it has always been about those we have lost, and we have always done it our way, with no intererence from outsiders or others trying to influence us.

Odyssey no-one is rushing into anything, Robert is simply gathering information about where we can and can't hold our Memorial Service, nothing has been decide yet, there are still many others to come in and put their thoughts forward, nothing has been set in concrete yet.

Odyssey no-one is rushing into anything, Robert is simply gathering information about where we can and can't hold our Memorial Service, nothing has been decide yet, there are still many others to come in and put their thoughts forward, nothing has been set in concrete yet.

ArohaJan

Agreed. Let's not all freak out yet.

I guess obviously the ASO would be the Ideal venue, so let's work that angle. Robert do you need any help in contacting them? I'll be glad to assist.

In the meantime maybe we can get another couple options in case the ASO doesnt pan out. Odyssey (or anyone), can you do a little research and maybe make some calls on that end? If anyone has any other ideas let's post them here and discuss.

Here are a few options that aren't typical religions that have a history of persecuting lgbt people and people in general. The latter few are strictly non-religious and would make great options! Renting the building at the Cal Anderson park would be awesome IMHO!

Park or chapel works well...Usually we have given the person doing the basic research like Robert independent latitude to decide the venue. That and input from locals, in this case like RAB. Gary and Jan have done such a wonderful job for us, their input is always so respected. Odyssey looks like he posted some interesting links so we can't go wrong in having a nice place to honor those who went before us, and also cherishing their lives and the great times we shared.

A quiet place is always nice where we have some privacy, which we did even in outdoor venues like San Francisco, and we had some privacy in Toronto and even in Mexico City.

Jody (who will see everyone in less than 100 days!!!)

« Last Edit: May 13, 2011, 09:01:10 PM by Jody »

Logged

"Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world". "Try to discover that you are the song that the morning brings."

Here are a few options that aren't typical religions that have a history of persecuting lgbt people and people in general. The latter few are strictly non-religious and would make great options! Renting the building at the Cal Anderson park would be awesome IMHO!

Please take this into consideration!

odyssey

The first 2 seems like we are back to the religion aspect which many are uncomfortable with, maybe we shouldnt even attemp that

The Cal Anderson Shelter seems nice, but it seems we would have to have a Fire permit (for our candles), and general insurance through a local agency, also from what I can see there are about $150 in "additional fees" on top of the hourly fee. So I would say this is out as well.

In all the years I have been involved this is by far the "most energy" I have seen regarding the Memorial Service. This is a good thing because it keeps us creative and looking for new ways to express our feelings. I would like to add that some may feel uncomfortable in a completely gay setting as not everyone who attends AMG is gay. We have had families and young children in the past and I certainly would not want them to avoid the service because of its location.

I also would like to keep the Friday morning or afternoon time we have been using over the years. It is a nice prelude to our Meet and Greet event in the evening. I once again reiterate that this service will not be "denominational" or "religious" in the conventional way. The "churches" that have been suggested are very friendly to us and dedicate their work to helping the marginalized. It is not the same thing as the institutional prejudice and judgement that many of us have experienced.

Let's all keep an open mind and I am sure we will once again be touched as we honor our loved ones who have died as we encourage the rest of us to continue living.

I would like to add that some may feel uncomfortable in a completely gay setting as not everyone who attends AMG is gay. We have had families and young children in the past and I certainly would not want them to avoid the service because of its location.

I don't see why anyone would have an issue going to a glbt focused HIV prevention organization. Its not like we'd be holding it at a gay sex club for heck's sakes! And seriously, considering how greatly the gay community is impacted by this epidemic, if any pozzies are still homophobic, they need to get over it. Anyone who is homophobic needs to get over it IMHO.

To that end, I have sent an inquiry email to Gay City Health Project about possibly using some of their space for our memorial service. It seems to me that supporting a gay organization is far less objectionable than supporting a religious one. Feel free to argue otherwise. Meanwhile, as it seems Robert wants me to investigate options, I will do so!

Just pointing out, the all pilgrims church is probably one of the most open non judegmental places in the United States. Its a church in the center of a gay neighborhood in the center of one of the most liberal cities in the country. This is not your southern baptist variety congregation.

And its without a doubt the nicest place on your list of options. Cal Anderson park is probably not the kind of park you would think of in the traditional sense. If you were wanting a park in the area I would suggest Volunteer Park as it will not be nearly as crowded as Cal Anderson.

Just fyi, back in the day...my friends and I used to call Call Anderson park "crack head park" Granted the city has cleaned it up a little bit since then.......a little bit.

Lifelong may have a conference room you can use (this is the ASO that I go to...In fact my pharmacy is on the first floor) Ive never heard of a memorial service in a conference room.

I have never been to the buddhist center, cant advise on that.

I used to do volunteer work for gay city...however, that was when they were in their old location. At that time..it was just some offices and a place were you could get HIV testing. Most of their work was done off site. Think of an organization that hands out condoms at bars. There really wasnt a lot of space in their offices.

The only other option would be a private space, such as a bar. POZSeattle has their monthly meetings at a bad called "the cuff." I'm sure they would let you in if you bought some drinks.

We have had families and young children in the past and I certainly would not want them to avoid the service because of its location.

So I guess its okay to pick a location that people will not attend because it is a church, but you don't want to pick a gay organization because people might not to attend? Way to make a person feel respected!

So I guess its okay to pick a location that people will not attend because it is a church, but you don't want to pick a gay organization because people might not to attend? Way to make a person feel respected!

odyssey

Well, this is a tough row to hoe.

I can understand the concern of having the memorial at "GAY CITY" when there are straights and children that attend the memorial, perhaps they wouldnt want to walk into a place with that name(although I cant speak for them), just as you and some others do not want to walk into a "church".

So, in order to avoid an all out brawl over the memorial how about we focus on Either the Dunshee House http://www.dunsheehouse.org/ or LifeLong AIDS Alliance or some other neutral non religious venue, somewhere where everyone will feel good about?

I was mainly speaking as to the space. You can hold your service wherever you want. However I have been inside many of the places on your list. All I was saying was the nicest place is the all pilgrims church (and I'm an atheist).

Gay city just doesnt have the space for you to hold your service (at least they didnt) and lifelong doesnt either. Its a bunch of offices.

And Cal Anderson park is fine I just dont think it is the kind of park most people would expect. Leatherman in a previous post stated it would be nice because its closer to nature. Cal Anderson park is no where near nature. It used to be a water resovoir that they covered where a bunch of homeless people sleep and shoot up (sorry). I just picture you standing there holding your candle being all somber and having some transient come up in your service asking you for some money or yelling at your because your on "his property"

Does anyone else realize how you're perpetuating the stereotype that gays are somehow harmful to children and families? This is such bullshit! WTF! I'm sorry but what the hell?

I think you are over reacting Odyssey, but we do have to remember that it's not just a Gay AMG, it's for everyone, young, old, gay and straight..don't let this get out of hand and turn it into a Gay/straight argument.