Space: The Convergence!

Now I am by far no expert on MSE2 script but does anybody think that the pictures below could by turned into a viable template. The diagonal casting cost thing would of course be the big hang-up here. Maybe the FPM template team could come up with something? Just curious, because this would be a cool template, that aside from the casting cost being kinda wacky would be fairly straight forward and reuse a lot of the code from the magic template. Not to mention looking really cool.

Of course if it is possible to do the diagonal casting cost we will need people with good graphics skills to do the frames and "psi" symbols.

Below are the pictures of the cards that were shown in the article for those that don't want to read the actual article.

Well, yeah, the casting cost is the huge problem, and far harder to surmount than the FPM templates vertical cost. MSE2 is already able to do vertical fields, which was necessary when doing the FPM templates; but MSE2 cannot do diagonal fields, which is why attempts at a hecatomb template have failed.

The only possible way I can think of to do it is to use masking because text can be made to follow masks. So perhaps you could do a field that fills from the bottom right to the top left, and make it follow a diagonal mask forcing it into that pattern. I'm not sure that would actually work though; its never been done as far as I know.

Nope doesn't work. Darn. It sounded like a good idea to. Perhaps in the next version real angled text will be available, not just 90 degree angles. Too bad; but I wasn't really expecting that we could make it work just hoping.

By "the rest of the template" do you mean the frames or fields? I can do all of work with the fields, font and symbol font but my photoshop skills are not really good enough to "clean up" the frames for use. I may be able to make "psi" symbols. Maybe someone with these skills could help out also?

Actually, I think that Magic is Space with a new paint job actually, because I read, and quote:

"Space: The Convergence is the trading card game dedicated to recreating titanic battles between powerful warlords vying for control of distant planets. Designed by Richard Garfield in 1993 and published by Wizards of the Coast, Space was the first trading card game."

Sun, 2007-04-15 23:06

Pichoro

MSE Add-On Award

Well, yeah, that's exactly what it is. It's Magic made with a techy looking frame, and space-esque terms. The keywords correspond to Magic keywords, the card types correspond, there are 5 types of Psi (5 colors of Mana)...

Looking at those again, I notice the text in the text box changes the padding. it's always left-justified, but the left margin keeps changing.

Mon, 2007-07-16 02:56

Pichoro

MSE Add-On Award

Well, yeah, but that's just because they were likely made in something easy some dude could use real quick setting at his desk. Paintbrush or some such thing. When the cards have obvious mistakes like that, you do something to fix it in the coding.

I'll re-iterate; I really think that's a bad idea. Actually asking WotC for blank images not only seems unlikely to produce results, but could attract negative attention to the program. It really just requires somebody with photoshopping skill to step up and blank some frames.

Since you still seem to be in need for them, I've finished all the card blanks (except for colored land - I'll do those later) for Space: The Convergence, and posted them here, if anyone wants to take a look at them.

Hmm, I'll look at Buttocks frames later, and knowing the correct font should help as well. Coincidentially (well, not quite), since I don't have the skill to clean up frames, I created some "they're somewhat close" frames, but they still need work. Case in point
The "psi" diagonal and the image box in general need cleanup, a few frames are a bit plain, and the "multicolor" frame... Well, with the semi-official frames being cleaned up, that may not be so much of a problem.

First off im really glad someone is atleast looking at that
That said shouldn't the artist credit (along with maybe copywrite line and collectorsnumber ) be in the lower parts instead of the side?

Thu, 2007-07-19 02:38

Pichoro

MSE Add-On Award

Okay, so the next thing missing is the "psi symbols" for the mana-font. They're the same symbols as are at the bottom center of each color of card. Any volunteers? Here's what's needed to emulate the cards that were in the WotC article.

-"Large" mana font.
-All 5 colors.
-Made so they have that shadow, not just below, but all around them (you can see what I mean by looking at the cards).
-Hybrids, half symbols, and snow are optional, but if someone doesn't make something up, they just won't work.

-"Small" mana font.
-All 5 colors.
-Made so that they do not have any shadowing, like magic-mana-small.
-Colorless circle and tap symbols from Magic font, made in same size as psi symbols (which may not be the same size as the mana symbols from Magic).
-Again, hybrid, halves, and snow are optional; if nobody makes them, they won't happen though.

-Also, about watermarks. If someone wants to make up something to use for mana symbol watermarks, I'll be happy to include them. Otherwise, we won't have watermarks that match the mana symbols.

I'll take the frames posted by Buttock and make a template tonight. I'm also going to do some other stuff to it that I've been thinking about.

Pichoro, you don't have to, I've already adapted the entire game file down to Echo. (Read: changed the words). I've used COSPX ordering (as opposed to WUBRG) with N, I, and J as variables. Lastly, I've decided that Wasteland psi would be a good substitute for snow.

Plus, I'd like some practice putting templates together.

Thu, 2007-07-19 02:57

Pichoro

MSE Add-On Award

Then I'll stop; I'm glad you spoke up. I've only done the blend file so far.

Why COSPX ordering, though? I don't follow the logic of those choices.

S, P, and X are obvious, but C is either crystal or cryo. I picked O for cryo, because S was already taken. I had to pick some different numbers for the variables though, because X was taken, and also S was taken, so I thought of W.

Thu, 2007-07-19 04:07

Pichoro

MSE Add-On Award

So I guess I'll ask what seems like the obvious question to me; why couldn't you just use WUBRG and XYZ? That way it would still work the way people anticipate it to. Cause people are gonna type "W" and expect it to trigger a white frame, not "Wasteland". You're not building this into the normal Magic game file, are you? You are making a whole new game file?

I thought I should go the whole nine yards. It is a different game file, but in reality, if you don't like it, just apply the style to the normal game file. I'm not making very many functional changes (excepting keywords. Most are getting reworded and renamed)

Thu, 2007-07-19 04:30

Pichoro

MSE Add-On Award

Yeah, but it'll be more than that. The mana font won't work anymore either if you just reattach it to the Magic game file.

All I'm saying is people are gonna expect it to work like Magic. The keywords I agree with; I was gonna redo them all too. But everybody can easily look up the keyword list and see how to use the new ones. Mana symbols are a bit more complex.

I'll second Pichoro in the request to keep WUBRG for psi costs, to make a conversion from separate game to magic style as easy as possible.

Thu, 2007-07-19 08:50

Knight Otu

Yautja, I was afraid that doing that might cause the P/D and the artist credit to overlap. Looking at a unit card, that fear may be unfounded, but I'll have to see how it works with the Venus Rising font.

Coppro, any chance or place to compare how we each translated the abilities? I know I had a few problems, and only really commited the core abilities, but I have ideas about the remaining (Flash to Tactical was an obvious choice, but how to translate Reach? Can't leave it as that or it's too close to Range).
I disagree a bit about the COSPX ordering, but not much. I'd keep the variables as XYZ, because they are the 'traditional' variables outside of Magic, so Xeno would have to be E. Cryo could go either R or O. Hm, and my Snow equivalent has been Halo in the Test file, but that doesn't mean much. In the end, though, I suspect that people will simply try to use the WUBRG order, as well.

I think it should be a seperate style file instead of a game file. It would be easier for MSE users to just go with the SWUBRG and YXZ shortcuts to the corresponding mana. Don't forget to make the frame switch to "srtifact" when "Device" is typed into the type box. Obviously, the wording will be odd at first, but we'll get used to it. The other thing is, we don't know what the "standard resources'" (AKA Basic Lands) names are.

For the copywrite and illustrator and collector numbers, you can put them on each side of the power and durabilty boxes, kinda like the CBG templates.

Thu, 2007-07-19 16:08

Knight Otu

After adding the Venus Rising font, it seems that the artist credit fits below the P/D section well enough on my templates, but it'll be a problem on the real templates due to the psi circle (and when we have psi symbols, I'll likely add them to my templates as well).
The Device template is admittedly very different from the real one (similar thing goes for the Resource template for different reasons). While I understand that the backdrop is (supposed to be) something like an engine block, it doesn't look like one at first glance, so I went with the circuitry image instead.

I disagree with making StC only a style file, though. Not only would that muck up the Magic game files when it isn't certain that the StC template will be part of the full install or only a download on the file library, it also has its own keywords. Sure, technically they're only mirrors of the MtG abiilties, but they have different names. To be recognized, they would have to be added to the game file. I'm not against a StC-type frame style for the Magic game, but then they would be for Magic cards.

I see what you're getting at. My only concern is that the psi, or whatever you want to call it, should use the same "shortcuts" as normal MtG mana.

Thu, 2007-07-19 17:58

Pichoro

MSE Add-On Award

My intention was to add a copyright line up the left side and just put the artist line at the bottom of the card. The reason for this; there's more space at the bottom than on the side and artist traditionally takes up more vertical space than copyright does. Also, copyright has automatic card numbers in it, so people will always know where it is. Not so far artist field.

Also, there are more reasons it needs to be a different game. Magic's files are tied to words like "Artifact" and "Land" and "Swamp". But Space uses different ones. Its best to make it its own set of files. As I said above, I definetly agree the mana symbols need to be on the same letters. Whether they call it Cryo or what, the frame is still dominantly blue. The same goes for the other 4 colors as well. And when those work, people would naturally experiment further and find that "S" doesn't lead them to snow, but to wasteland. And finally, XYZ are variable because of their use in mathematics. Other letters used for these do not have that common use in mathematics.