Mailbag: Cano and the Cardinals

Travis asks: If the Cardinals were to attempt a trade for Robinson Cano, taking into account he is a one-year rental, what would the Yankees get? Trevor Rosenthal, Jon Jay, and Lance Lynn?

Cano’s future with the Yankees has been a pretty hot topic in recent weeks given his impending free agency and the team’s intent to get under the $189M luxury tax threshold by 2014. I fully expect them to re-sign him to a long-term contract, but let’s entertain the idea of trading him this winter just for fun. Remember, thanks to the new Collective Bargaining Agreement, Robbie would have to be traded in the offseason for his new team to be eligible for draft pick compensation next winter. That’s a pretty big deal.

Anyway, the Cardinals looked into acquiring Cano prior to the 2009 season but backed away when the Yankees asked for Adam Wainwright. Their middle infield is a disaster right now and top second base prospect Kolten Wong is at least half-a-season away, if not a full season. Adding a big left-handed bat to switch-hitter Carlos Beltran and righties Matt Holliday, Yadier Molina, Allen Craig, and David Freese would really balance their middle of the lineup and make the NL’s best offense even better.

The Cardinals have a loaded farm system that includes arguably the best hitter in the minor leagues in Oscar Taveras. The left-handed hitting outfielder mashed in Double-A this year (.321/.380/.572, 159 wRC+ as a 20-year-old) and will be ranked among the top five prospects in baseball after the season. They also have a ton of pitching in Rosenthal, Lynn, Joe Kelly, Carlos Martinez, Tyrell Jenkins, and Shelby Miller. Martinez and Jenkins are a few years out while the other guys all pitched in the bigs in 2012. Obviously the Rays deserve a lot of credit, but I think the Cardinals are the best player development organization in baseball.

The Adrian Gonzalez trade (Padres to Red Sox, not Red Sox to Dodgers) is a pretty great trade comparison since it also featured one year of a superstar player. It netted the San Diego two of Baseball America’s top 100 prospects in Casey Kelly (#31) and Anthony Rizzo (#75) in addition to the previous year’s first rounder in Reymond Fuentes. Taveras is better than any of those guys and that’s obviously who the Yankees should ask for first. I think 27-year-old rookie and left-handed hitting utility man Matt Carpenter (125 wRC+ in 340 PA while playing first, second, third, left, and right this year) would be a great target as the third piece in a package.

The Yankees should start talks by asking for Taveras or Craig (who could play right, backup first, fake third if needed), Miller or Lynn or Rosenthal, plus Carpenter to round out the three-player package. St. Louis would say no and you negotiate down a bit from there, though I suppose the Bombers could add a player/prospect(s) to sweeten the pot on their end. Cano would have to net you a third high-end piece in addition to one of those arms and Carpenter though, he is the best second baseman in baseball with a below-market salary for 2013. I don’t think the Yankees will find a better trade partner for Cano than the Cardinals given their middle infield needs and prospect depth, but moving him would put a big dent in their attempt to contend in 2013.

I didn’t realize they were attempting to contend in 2013. Sure hasn’t looked like it. Bring back the old names from 1996 to fill the seats, don’t bother with anything else.

http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

They spent $40M on Pettitte, Kuroda, and Rivera out of boredom.

dan gen

one year deals…no one at catcher,right and third….that is not contending ..

Ted Nelson

The off-season is not over.
How many years a guy is signed for has nothing to do with whether or not you are contending this year.

Do you try to make terrible points?

dan gen

third place..189,189,189,..

Get Phelps Up

I like how you didn’t even try to counter Ted’s point. The ultimate sign of a troll.

jjyank

It’s sure as shit contending for that year they are under contract.

dalelama

We are just re-upping what we already had in a disgraceful season while losing Msrtin, Soriano, and Swisher. We are going backwards not forward.

Get Phelps Up

Who is Msrtin?

Ted Nelson

95 wins and ALCS is disgraceful?

The Yankees had Mo and Pettitte last season?

The off-season is over?

Sweet Dick Willie

dalelama is a troll.

When you counter his batshit insane comments with logic and reason, he disappears into the ether.

dalelama

Ultimate gaggage in playoffs—-check

Yes

Please point where I claimed this.

Robinson Tilapia

Axisa got stuck in the troll sandwich.

Countryclub

If the players from 96 are as good or better than whatever else is available, you bring them back.

Get Phelps Up

I bet if they’d signed Victorino, Pagan, Naopli, etc you’d be here complaining about how they keep giving out bad contracts to aging players.

Elton Cod

And I bet you’d be there to disagree with me, no matter what I say. So predictable.

Ted Nelson

Seems like a lot of people disagree with you.

Get Phelps Up

I only disagree with asinine statements.

So far the majority of your comments have been just that.

Mario Lopez

I love Cano when he’s on, he’s easily 1 of the best players in baseball. But realistically, he just hired Lucifer for his agent, which means he’ll use #ARod’s contract as a jumping off point. Instead of handing out another 8-10 yr deal that only handicaps the entire organization AGAIN I totally agree w/ trading Cano.

JobaWockeeZ

No team will give another ARod contract. Not for the next 3 to 4 years I mean. Pujols couldn’t even match it. Cnao certainly won’t.

Ted Nelson

I think you’re taking the comment too literally.

Robinson Tilapia

I’m glad you added the “not for the next 3 or 4 years” qualifier there.

Gonzo

Oscar Tavares is prospect gold.

Chris

It sounds like they could net a decent return for the future, but I think they need to keep Cano and go for it this season. When you look at their prospects, no one is that close to the majors (considering Manny is going to be rehabbing next season), and then you have Rivera, Pettite, Kuroda, Cano, Hughes, and Granderson (assuming Jeter’s option vests) all potentially gone at the end of the season. Assuming average production from the group, that’s a ton of value lost which they will have to replace via FAs and/or trades.

If I’m making the call, I do what I can to shore up catcher, 3b, and RF, and make a run this year knowing 2014 has a ridiculous number of question marks as things currently stand.

Ted Nelson

I disagree with the logic of trying to be better for one year even if it means being worse for 5 years after that. I’m not advocating a trade with any certainty, but if they don’t plan to re-sign him and are offered a package they love… I’d go for it.

The cap on 2014-5 is at least as much an argument for getting cost controlled talent as going for it in 2013 even if it costs you cost controlled talent.

Chris

I don’t think keeping Cano and attempting to contend makes them worse for 5 years. Assuming Cano nets Taveras, plus 1 high end pitching prospect, plus a solid everyday player as proposed above would be the best case.

I defer to Mike’s opinion considering his knowledge of MiLB, so if Taveras is going to be a top 5 prospect I don’t see the Cardinals moving him anyway. The drop between top 5 and the next tier of prospects is quite large so while the Gonzalez trade is a good comp, a top 35 prospect does not equal a top 5 prospect.

Ted Nelson

So, the Yankees are as well off for the next 5 years after 2012 without two top prospects and a cost controlled UTL as they are with them?

The opportunity cost here is what you could have gotten in a trade.

I don’t think the Cardinals will deal Taveras for Cano. However, Shelby Miller was the #8 prospect in baseball entering last season. Lance Lynn was an MLB All-Star in 2012. Acting like these guys have no value is odd. The cut-off between #5 and #6 is totally arbitrary.

Brian

Yankees should trade Cano for the best package of ML ready players they can get (from Cards or elsewhere)before the 2013 season starts. Otherwise they get little or nothing for him when he walks. NO NO NO to 7 -8 year, big contract to anyone, Cano included. Cano’s trade value will never be higher than it is now.

Ted Nelson

His trade value has been higher than it is now for several years.

Gonzo

Hey Mike, couldn’t one make the argument that Tavares alone is equal to Casey Kelly and Anthony Rizzo? At least two of the three of those guys?

Taveras, Jaime Garcia, Colton Wong, Carpenter and one other piece for Cano.

j

are you insane? are we hypnotizing st louis’ gm?

j

im really not sure that stl would give much more than taveras. i dont even know if theyd trade him for robbie straight up. its hard to make the argument that one year of robbie is more valuable than six years of taveras plus other pieces.

Kosmo

look what prospects Texas received when Tex was traded to the Braves for what amounted to 1 season.
Garcia is a mid-rotation SP who it appears has worn out his welcome in St Louis. Colton Wong is 1-2 years away, Carpenter is 27 and blocked.
I don´t see such a trade happening and I´m sure the Cards have zero interest in long term contracts.

Ted Nelson

They got nothing close to Taveras, so that’s why I think most people would react that way to your deal. He’s one of the hottest prospects in MLB.

It was a great haul, and whether due to scouting or luck it worked out very well. There was no Taveras type Top 5, 10, or even 25 prospect, though.

Scott

Trade him to the Card (or anyone else in the NL) that’s looking to really contend in 2013 and will risk losing prospects for one year of Cano. I love Robbie, but in all reality, he is gone after 2013…we might as well maximize our return on him now vs. a compensation pick after he signs somewhere else next year.

http://www.twitter.com/matt__harris Matt :: Sec110

Cano for prospects, and sign Hamilton: 3 years, $75M.

THEN! flip those prospects (keep carpenter to play 2B) and our prospects for Stanton. If the Marlins turn that down, you’ve still improved your farm system while keeping similar talent at the ML level.

You could even then flip Granderson or keep him and have Gardner as your 4th OFer. (which I’d prefer for 2013)

Is there a difference between trading a player and prospect immediately after acquiring him?

Go troll somewhere else.

Now Batting

Actually, I’m pretty sure that is EXACTLY what happened with Michael Taylor and Brett Wallace after the Halladay trade.

Steve (different one)

Andy Marte from Atlanta to Boston to Cleveland

Gonzo

I don’t think Carpenter can play 2b full time. The Cards tend to get creative with positions when in need. Allen Craig played some 2b for them in 2011.

Carpenter never played 2b in the minors and only started 2 games at 2b this year pretty much out of necessity. I heard his defense at 3b wasn’t hot either.

Havok9120

Wow.

I’m just….wow. I’m not saying that this would be a bad outcome, but…Surely you aren’t proposing this as a realistic possibility?

Ted Nelson

If , in fact, Stanton is going to be traded for anything close to a reasonable package and that Hamilton is signing a 3 year deal, why not? I think it’s pretty creative.

Havok9120

Its certainly creative, but it requires two blockbuster deals. Cano for a haul (a true haul) and a Stanton trade in which we empty out the resulting farm for a player the Marlins have precisely zero reported interest in trading.

Hamilton for 3-4 years I could see the Yanks doing, certainly. My reaction is geared only toward the trades.

Ted Nelson

I don’t think that the trades as particularly likely, but I also don’t think that they’re unrealistic if those players are moved at some point. It’s really tough to predict what a team will do, but as far as baseless speculation I don’t think this is unrealistic.

LK

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think Stanton can play CF.

There are so many moving parts in that plan that it’s hard to think it’s realistically possible, but that doesn’t look like a bad outcome. Still would need a C upgrade, though.

Ted Nelson

I think you keep Gardner as CF, whether that means just not signing Hamilton or trading Granderson.

With A-Rod coming back in 3-6 months, I think you can live with a hole or two at C and 2B. The Giants just swept the WS with LF Gregor Blanco, SS Brandon Crawford, and DH Hector Sanchez/Theriot in their line-up… all those guys were at about .300 wOBA during the season. An upgrade would be great, but not necessary.

dan gen

casey kelly is going to to the hall of fame…never mind…not a red sox anymore..must suck

Ted Nelson

He wouldn’t be a bad guy to get at all as icing on the cake, but I wouldn’t expect Carpenter to repeat his small sample size performance. His BABIP was quite high (.346) and he was as much above MLB average in 2012 as he was in AAA at 26 years old in 2011.

Terry

Welcome to the 2013 Bronx Bummers. I can’t believe this team is moving forward with so many holes and old aged players at vital positions. The only way to even try to improve is through trades that the minor league system doesn’t have that other teams want.. Not a great time to be a Yankee fan. I see 3rd place or lower next season.

Get Phelps Up

Good thing tomorrow isn’t Opening day. And even now with the way the division is constructed the Yankees are still at least the second best team in the division on paper.

Ted Nelson

Out of curiosity, who would you put at #1 ahead of them?

Get Phelps Up

Toronto’s the only one who I think you could make a legit argument for. The Rays have major offensive troubles that make the Yankees’ look enviable. Boston has no pitching at all. And the Orioles haven’t really done anything to show that they won’t have to have historic records in one run and extra inning games to contend again.

Ted Nelson

Personally I would be more likely to put the Rays above the Jays. I think that the Jays did more to improve this off-season, but they were a 73 win team in 2012. Would probably take a 20 win turn-around to win the division. They’re relying a lot on young guys, bounce-backs, and continued ceiling-level performance. Rays haven’t necessarily gotten better, but they were a 90 win team. Lost BJ, gained Yunel. Lost Pena, gained Loney. Might still make a big move with Shields, so we’ll see what happens there.

Now Batting

Forget the division for a minute, what about the league? Texas and Detroit have knocked us out of the playoffs the last two years. Texas is always scary and looks like they’re only going to be better this year with their forecasted moves. Detroit has bested us in the postseason the past two years, and I don’t see anything changing that landscape.

Going back to the AL East, Tampa Bay still has a killer pitching staff that is still at that age range where they are expected to improve, rather than regress, annually (unlike ours). If Longoria can ever stay healthy I think they’d be the trendy pick in the division.

Preston

Texas is losing there best player, and hasn’t made any moves yet. Let’s not congratulate them on their great off-season yet. They might not sign Greinke, Hamilton or trade for Upton. Leaving them worse off than a year ago. The Tigers were an 87 win team last year. They aren’t going to bring back Anibal and their big move was getting an aging Torii Hunter. Yes the Rays are going to be good, and I think the Jays will be good too. The Orioles and Red Sox aren’t going to be the Astros either. But what else is new. Every year you know you have to win 95+ to make it out of the AL East.

Ted Nelson

You have to get into the playoffs before worrying about that. I don’t think that the Tigers are a superior team so much as were hot at the right time, while the Yankees were absolutely ice cold.

I think Tampa is the biggest competitor as well. There are negatives to all of those positives you point out, and positives to all the Yankees negatives as well (this could be Tex’s or Granderson’s bounce-back year just like Longoria’s healthy year or Yunel’s bounce-back… Young SPs flame out at a pretty high rate, so I wouldn’t count on that improvement…).

jjyank

Amazing how short people’s memory can be. If you turned the calendar back exactly 1 year, December 8, 2011, the Yankees would still have not signed Kuroda or pulled the trigger on a huge trade. I don’t understand why so many people don’t think that moves can be made in late December, January, or even February.

Get Phelps Up

I’m pretty sure re signing Freddy Garcia was their most significant move at this point last offseason.

dalelama

And look how last year turned out—a humiliating disgrace.

jjyank

You mean having the best record in the AL? Jeez dude. Take a chill pill.

Get Phelps Up

For your Mets, sure it did.

Jacob

What team were you watching?

dalelama

The most embarrassing MLB playoff collapse in my lifetime.

Pat D

Yea, this year was much worse than 2004. Or any other team that blew a 3-1 lead, like this year’s Cardinals.

Get Phelps Up

So you’re like 7 then? Now it makes sense.

Ted Nelson

The off-season isn’t over. They are moving forward with holes… forward into December.

How much do you know about their system? They’ve got 3 guys considered to be top 50-ish prospects in MLB, plus another top 25-50 prospect missing the year with a fairly common surgery plus another guy getting top 50 hype who has an ugly injury history. There are 30 teams in MLB. The average team will have 1.67 players in the top 50… the Yankees have 3-5 depending on who you ask.

Which two AL East teams are better than them right now, holes and all?

dan gen

you are the type of guy who would think signing mitre would help.

dalelama

an unabashed homer….

Ted Nelson

No, I just realize that when you consistently win 95 games per season the sky is not falling.

Those are not my prospect rankings. I didn’t come up with them. Unless I am such a homer that I bribe BA and ESPN and MLB.com to hype Yankees prospects…

ClayDavis

Unless they get an insane package, why would they ever trade Cano? The Yankees should never be in position to dump guys basd on salary. Ridiculous

bkight13

The Yankees don’t need to save money. They are printing money like the Dodgers with the new TV deals. Unless the Steins are making the bottom line look better for a sale, they are making a big mistake.

Ted Nelson

Very enlightened view.

Steve

That’s a pretty great return for Cano. Gonzalez isn’t a perfect comp either, Cano is much more valuable as a 2B than Gonzalez at 1B. That to me could kind of net out the difference in the top prospect coming back. I don’t think that it would be the worst thing in the world to trade Cano, especially if the Yanks will end up letting him go for a draft pick in the off-season. Let the Cardinals deal with his possible $200M contract.

J6takish

A-gon was a better hitter than cano. Albeit at a less premium position. He also was open to an extension and wasn’t a boras client

Steve

The less premium position changes everything though. I also don’t agree that Gonzalez was a better hitter. Of course, I’m comparing the year previous to Gonzalez being traded to this past year for Cano (which if Cano got traded this offseason, it’d be the year prior to him being traded). A-Gon hit .298/.393/.511/.904 with 31 HR/ 101 RBI and 4.1 WAR/ 142 wRC+. Cano this past year was .313/.379/.550/.929 with 33 HR/99 RBI and 8.2 WAR/ 150 wRC+. By traditional and advanced stats, Cano had the better season and was the better hitter. The only thing A-Gon had going for him over Cano was age.

Preston

I agree that Cano is the better player, but just showing the one year of stats is misleading as 2012 was Cano’s best year. A-Gon had a much better 2009 when he posted a .277/.407/.551 with 40 HR/99RBI and 6.2 WAR/156 wRC+, and the fact that he was younger, made it reasonable to believe he was entering his prime. Looking at aging curves it’s very likely last season was Cano’s best. Also Kelly, Rizzo, Fuentes and Patterson haven’t exactly set the world on fire. Casey Kelly has all of 29 unimpressive big league innings and projects as a number 3 or back end starter rather than the number two borderline number one he was once regarded as. Rizzo looks to be an above average MLB 1B at this point, although not for the Padres and Fuentes followed up a disappointing season at A ball in 2011 with an even more disappointing stint at AA in 2012. It’s a good trade for the Padres because they weren’t going to compete that year or re-sign Gonzalez. It would be a bad move for us to do something similar because we can compete in 2013 and trading Cano takes away that prospect and we do have the ability to sign him as long as it’s for a reasonable deal.

Steve

We’re not comparing their career years. Logic says you compare the year previous to when they were traded. Just because Cano’s career year, up to this point came in 2012, it doesn’t mean you can compare career years. Bringing up the results that the prospects have returned is also irrelevant. You’re trading for a lottery ticket in both instances. Just because the prospects didn’t pan out, it doesn’t mean that they weren’t very highly regarded at the time of the trade. If the Yanks did trade Cano, there’s a very good chance that no one who comes back in the trade will be an impact player. Also, A-Gon’s 2009 was not better than Cano’s 2012. Cano was a full two WAR better. WAR as a metric is very valid in this instance as the defense variable can be tossed out the window, since both players grade out pretty well defensively. They also very much pass the eye-test on defense.

Ted Nelson

That’s faulty logic. Logic says you project how good you think they’ll be going forward. And doing that based ononly the most recent season is not preferable. You want a larger sample.

AGon also played home games in PetCo leading up to FA, while Cano played them in YS3. Cano does play the more valuable position.

I agree that you look more at the prospects when they were traded. At the same time, one can argue that the Red Sox felt these guys were overhyped, and might not have dealt prospects they believed in more.

Steve

While you do want to project how good they’ll be, needing a larger sample is silly. Gonzalez and Cano are known quantities. And of course you use the more recent stats. Contrat notwithstanding, if the Yankees trade Tex, is some team going to give them a prospect haul for the stats Tex produced in 2008 or 2009? No, they’re going to return a package relevant to Tex’s recent terrible production.

Where A-Gon played his home games is, again, irrelevant. wRC+ is park adjusted and league adjusted.

Only the Red Sox know what the Red Sox were thinking, but by all intents and purposes, the Red Sox traded their two best prospects and then some. You, or anyone else for that matter, assuming that they know the Red Sox thinking is completely wrong.

That will give the team a year to see what they have in Romine, Adams and Joseph, see where Austin, Williams, Heathcott and Sanchez are and how Jeter, ARod and Pineda have recovered.

The Swisher and Soriano picks will offset the pick for Hamilton and Granderson should bring back at least one premium prospect, so the farm would benefit.

Jacob

No just no

Steve (different one)

Problem with this scenario is that the Cards wouldn’t do this, IMO. Taveras for a guy they won’t extend is a non starter.

Jacob

I think we should just try and steal craig from them now and add him to robbie.

j

do you mean by literally kidnapping him? cuz im not sure how else we would get him

Dan

Why were we not in on young. Phillies have no prospects and they get young while we need a 3b and do nothing. Dolan might be a better owner than these 2 clowns.

jjyank

Because Young is terrible?

Dan

Sure he is I hate guys that get 200 hits a season give me swisher, but but he walks.

Knoxvillain

Young is closing in on 40, can’t play defense, has terrible splits, and was probably the worst player on his team last year.

A-Rod could just start on Opening Day and skip the hip surgery and be just as good.

Pat D

Yea, he’s had 200 hits once in the last 5 years, and is likely to never do that again.

Knoxvillain

Because Young sucks balls.

Pat D

Because Michael Young sucks as a hitter, as a fielder, and as a human being.

Havok9120

Well there you go then.

THU

Cano, Nunez, Joseph, and Logan for Morse, Desmond, Rendon and Ramos. Then Granderson for Olt from Texas or Walker from the M’s. Hughes and Joba traded off to the Royals for Yordano Ventura, Jake Odorizzi and Johnny Giavotella. Sign Hamilton, Ichiro and Reynolds or Youk.

Steve

Why would the Nationals even entertain that? 3 starting caliber players and a top prospect for 1 year of Cano and spare parts? Makes no sense, especially when you consider the years of control from Desmond, Rendon, and Ramos. Texas also would never pull the trigger on that and if they do, what are the Yanks going to do with two young, MLB-ready 3B? Let’s try and at least make this stuff reasonable.

Travis L.

You’ll have to excuse him, that’s his shopping list for MLB:The Show 2013.

Steve

You’d definitely have to turn on force trades for that one to go through

Travis L.

Nah! Stack the roster at the beginning before you start the season!! LOL. *sheepish look* As if I’ve never done it before.

BJ

If you ask me, the Royals trade is actually the craziest of the three. Why in the world would the Royals trade two of their most promising arms and their starting 2B for a #4 starter and a middle reliever?

Preston

I don’t advocate trading Cano under any circumstances. All of this talk about his contract is pure speculation. Is there anybody who wouldn’t bring Robinson back for 6/120? Because that would be the highest 2B contract ever by a lot. So before we go wetting the bed about what he and Scott Boras think his contract should be let’s remember somebody has to offer it. If he plays this year, we get 5+ wins and a top 10 MVP caliber player at 2B. That is a huge amount of production to try to replace. We would be considerably worse in 2013 without him, no matter what other moves we make. Let’s keep him, compete this year, and have the opportunity to try and retain one of the best players in the game. If we don’t than we get a 1st round pick and move on.

Knoxvillain

Sure, I’d bring him back for a 6/160. But he signs for six years he’s gonna get almost 200 million.

With the way the Yankees seem to be going, I hope they just trade Cano this offseason.

Steve

6/160 will never happen. 6 years for 200M will never happen. One of those is approaching a 30M AAV and the other eclipses it. Only one player in baseball makes over 27M in AAV and that’s A-Rod. Look at how the Yankees feel about that one now.

Preston

You think he’s going to sign for 6/180+, as in most AAV ever? Cano is good he isn’t Albert Pujols. He won’t get Albert’s AAV, and given that Albert is a 1B and Robinson is a 2B he won’t get his years either. The sky isn’t falling. After 2013 the Yankees will make a competitive offer to keep Cano that will be fairly reasonable, if somebody else goes wild that’s their business. And I still think that his 2013 production+ opportunity to retain him+ draft pick if we lose him is > any prospect package we will get in return for him. Especially since in that scenario we would be substantially worse in 2013 and the prospects would have to develop not only under the bright lights of NYC (a daunting enough task) but as the guys we traded Robinson Cano for.

Travis L.

Why cant we just trade him, get the prospects, and re-sign him. Best of both worlds! LOL. #ohgoodlordwhathavewedone.

LOL in computer speak is “laugh out loud”. In that instance, it was due a joke being made. Things are never funny if you have to explain them…joke fail.

Preston

I knew it was a joke, I didn’t mean for that to be a specific reply to you. Just more of a continuation of my point.

Travis L.

Gotcha…my bad…having a sensitive day. LOL.

Ted Nelson

It’s important to point out the risk, but prospects still have value. Getting guys who have already made MLB like Miller (who was a top 10 prospect) and at least tasted a little MLB success like Lynn (All-Star) or a guy like Taveras who is maybe top 3-5… Better than getting some borderline top 100 guy in short season

Jacob

+1 THIS

Ted Nelson

I don’t buy that logic for a second. How many 2B have hit FA in their primes as top 10 MLB position players in the last 10 years? If the Yankees moved him to 3B this season, he’d get a better contract?

If they already know they’re going to let him walk (hypothetically), I think a strong package would be better than letting him walk. You’d be worse in 2013, but better going forward.

Chris

Thank you for posting this. It’s refreshing to know that people are thinking along the same lines. I actually am 100% on board with trading Cano. I don’t see it any differently actually. The return you will get for this guy is at it’s peak right now and to me, it’s a no brainer. It’s a dissapointing offseason in my eyes if Cano isn’t traded, that’s how much I want it to happen.

Jacob

If anyone on the team should be traded right now it is Chris Stewart, he is about to get a huge payday and would bring back a huge haul

Preston

we could probably get a MiLB reliever for him, GET IT DONE CASHMAN!!!

Travis L.

We could possibly get Andrew Brackman for him…oh wait, he’s a MiLB free agent…scratch that.

Jacob

How could Cash let Brackman go? He was such a great guy for depth…

Travis L.

Depth? You mean like…being tall and being able to touch the bottom of the swimming pool???

pat

If we could get a Gonzo type haul back for Cano I’d be ecstatic. IMO Cano’s lack of plate discipline and/or unwillingness to lay of bad pitches will not age well. He’s got the hand eye coordination, wrist quickness and athleticism now to hit shitty pitches, but going forward? No thanks. If we could get a Taveras and two B-level prospects I’d do it in a heartbeat. Hell, if we could get a good haul for Granderson I’d trade him too and punt 2013 completely to set up a good, young, cheap core for 2014 and beyond.

Travis L.

You’re the minority here. Hate to say that, as it makes a bit of sense. Not sure we would get that much from Granderson, but to get a decent pitcher, or maybe even an awesome reliever (not sure who would fit either of those bills) would be great. Then get a package from STL for Cano. I’m not sure I’d trade anyone else though…maybe Logan (since we have four other lefties on the 40 man and another in AAA). I’d try to extend Hughes and Joba. That should be able to set us up nicely for 2014 and beyond. Add to what we get the kids coming up and hopefully we would have a Nationals like team…young, but talented. Hopefully.

Jacob

Because a young core will not go through growing pains at all and is a sure thing

Travis L.

True.

pat

I’d rather deal with a young team with upside going through growing pains than an old as shit team going through rigor mortis. At some point a purge has to be made. Personally I would be fine with it if it were done in the name of genuinely trying to build from the inside out rather than slapping on duct tape patches and high price free agents who decline 2 years into a deal.

Ted Nelson

Would you rather win more games or less games?

Oliver Heaviside

I’d concerned more w/the derivative than the position

Athenian

I know this is not a popular idea but I think the Yankees should seriously look into moving Cano now. Unless they KNOW they can sign him for 6-8 yrs/$22.5 per, they are inviting themselves into self torture at the expense of winning.

Don’t get me wrong, I think Cano is one of the best hitters in baseball, not to mention defensively. But when a player and agent (let’s face it, Boras is just a fucking asshole and should not be dealt with at all) start dictating prices, especially at age 30, it is a dangerous ride to join.

I think the smart realistic and “better for the team and its future” is to seek a trade before losing Cano all together.

Travis L.

It appears that we are all split on this topic. I asked this question to get a good debate going and damn it worked. I am on the fence about it myself, but dont think it should be something that is never considered. I do believe though that a package of players, prospects or MLB players, would be worth more than a first round comp pick (if we dont re-sign him). I know we would be losing a lot in 2013 and that sucks. Like with Granderson. I’m not sure what we would get back with him and if it would be all that better than a comp pick if we dont re-sign him next year, so we may be better off hoping for a bit of a rebound and keeping him around. I’m glad this has been a hot topic of discussion…that’s what I like to see around here!!!

Zack D

So Yankees won’t pay Cano 150m, but the St Louis Cardinals would trade prospects and pay him? Trade prospects and let him walk?

Travis L.

If trading for him makes them feel that they can win a world series with his help…YES!

jjyank

Right. Same reason anyone would trade prospects for 1 year of a super star. Flags fly forever, man.

Travis L.

+1

Zack D

Then why would the Yankees trade him? Trading him doesn’t make this team better.

Tony_Turdner

The problem with using the AGon trade as a comp for a Cano trade is that AGon and Boston had a handshake agreement for a long term extension before the trade was finalized. It just wasn’t officially announced until after the regular season had began for LT purposes. If it had simply been a one year rental of AGon, Boston wouldn’t have given up anywhere near the prospects that they did.

Boras has made it clear that Cano is not signing an extension and he is taking him all the way to FA. I think Mike is far over estimating the amount of talent (and number of players) that St. Louis (or any other team) would be willing to give up for a one year rental of Cano.

Steve

That’s a valid point, but there have been plenty of instances where a rental was traded for a top prospect(s). For example, Beltran, twice.

Ted Nelson

Or Teixiera… for 1.5 years.

John

how about texeira to washington for prospects and morse. morse can play 1b … then granderson for prospects … use those prospects with culver and or nunez to send to zona for upton and sign hamilton? i know you guys are gonna say why is wash gonna want tex .. but if the red sox were able to trade their guys i think tex will be alot easier.. no?

Steve

No, A-Gon is actually good and The Nats are not the Dodgers.

John

i dont know .. after everything that has happened 4 years at 90 mil for text doesnt seem all that terrible .. at least not AROD terrible .. plus you need to remember Tex was injured last season before that even though he didnt bat 300 he still hit over 30 hrs and 100 Rbis … and he is prob the best defensive 1B. one other thing the Nats need a 1B with Laroche a FA.

Steve

They actually don’t need a 1B, that’s why they have Morse. LaRoche is a luxury that they don’t exactly need. Besides, Morse is terrible in the OF, 1B is his best position. Tex has been on a steady decline the last 3 seasons, why would the Nats trade a cheaper player AND prospects for Tex? There’s no logic there.

pat

THE SAME REASONS YOU WANT TO TRADE TEIXEIRA ARE THE SAME REASONS NOBODY WANT HIM. DOES NOBODY UNDERSTAND THAT?

archie

Ugh Stuck with TeX and Alex contracts in their decline. Yanks have to load up on arms and hope for the best outcomes with an offense of HR or nothing. I believe yanks are serious about 189 and there will be no cano in 14.

Ca$hman

how about we trade cano now and then sign him when hes a free agent ?
?(?)?

Robinson Tilapia

I remember thinking things like that when I was twelve too.

Ian

I think they are serious about 189 so they should tear cano for tavernas and miller and rosetnthal or another pitching prospect if they can get it. Then trade granderson for walker on the ms and eat some of that $

Ian

Then they would have 4 of the top 25 prospects in baseball and 2 of the top 5

Robinson Tilapia

I’m of the opinion that I’d like to see Robbie Cano in pinstripes, and at second base, for as he’s physically able to play baseball.

What I don’t want to see, however, if Robbie walk away at the end of this season with the team only recouping a draft pick. I hope the Yankees either make the decision that are all-in on re-signing him, with a good estimate as to how expensive the market will go on him, or attempt to get something in return.

I’ve said it before on here. I’m not afraid of having this team go very big to keep him in pinstripes. There is always a place for big contracts in this sport.

RetroRob

That’s part of the issue. If the Yankees are debating internally about letting Cano walk after this year and not signing him to let’s say an eight-year deal (and it would be understandable if they don’t want to do that), then they should be considering how best to maximize his value to help the team, and not just in 2013, but 2014 and beyond.

I believe the Yankees intend to bring back Cano and are planning for that big payday. Yet my first thought when I heard the Yankees might be considering Hamilton was they had made a decision to replace Cano’s bat with Hamilton’s, and they potentially trade Cano (or maybe Granderson) to perhaps fill a hole somewhere else.

Hard to say since none of us have any idea what plans the Yankees have made, but I am quite sure they have Plan A, B, C and maybe even D. The assumption is they’ve already blown Plan A because, gasp, they did not sign Keppinger to a multi-year deal, or they did not particpate in signing the likes of Shane Victorino for $40MM. This was a pretty weak free-agent market, and history pretty much says it is best to sit out this type of market unless a good deal pops up.

Andy Pettitte’s Fibula

Agree with emphasis on the point that under no circumstances can they let him walk for just a draft pick.
The only way you can insure that is to sign him now before he reaches free agency. The Giants were able to do that last year with Matt Cain, the Dodgers the year before with Matt Kemp and Scotty Boras’ own client, Jered Weaver didthe same last season too.

If he flat out refuses to sign, I think you have no choice but to trade him for the best deal you can get. To take the chance that some batshit crazy team like the Dodgers offer him something unmatchable like10$220 million is just too great.

Oliver Heaviside

Do a 3-way; maybe get Headley or Upton or Cabrera & Santana w/the prospect haul from Cano. That way the team is still good in ’13 and has payroll flexibility down the road.

Steve

That’s precisely what I’d like to see the Yankees do. Either trade him this offseason or make sure you resign him after the season. Losing a player of Cano’s caliber and only recouping a draft pick would hurt my soul.

MJT

Please trade him immediately, he’s a dog.

fat jeter

How far is away is David Adams? Pure numbers, he looks like a pretty reasonable Cano replacement.