Former IRS chief Shulman reportedly visited White House at least 157 times [W:243]

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Re: Former IRS chief Shulman reportedly visited White House at least 157 times

Originally Posted by j-mac

Now is Shulman responsible? Yes, he was the head of the IRS at the time and is ultimately responsible. However you are missing the point I made....

I said clearly more than once now that, it is reported that the head of the NTEU, (the treasury employees union) and a rabid anti TP activist, met with Obama in the WH, the day before this targeting began in earnest.

Coincidence? I think not.

Yeah, the head of the NTEU met with Obama, but there the Bubble that republican live in comes to surface once again.

1. they did not meet in the White House but at the OEOB
2. this was not a private meeting but a forum with loads of other guests
3. this was at a public event, the workplace flexibility forum at which Obama gave the closing speech

4. this was a highly publicized and reported on event, again, not a meeting between Obama and the NTEU leader
5. the targeting of tea party groups had originated at the beginning of March 2010
6. the Inspector General wrote in his report:
The IRS Inspector General said Tuesday that incompetence, not malice, was behind the tax agency’s heavy scrutiny of conservative groups applying for tax-exempt status in the lead-up to the 2012 elections.

A 48-page IG report explicitly stated that the IRS behavior was “not politically biased,” that it was due to lower-level staff who did not understand their jobs and sometimes acted insubordinately, and that it was not driven by the White House.

In other words, the NTEU leader did not "meet" Obama after which the targeting started, the Inspector General concluded after an investigation it was not malicious nor was the targeting politically biased or driving by the White House.

So yes, very much coincidence and a lot of over the top conspiracy theorizing rather than factual following of what actually happened.

I am with Jake Tapper, you have to be a jerk or an idiot to refer to John McCain as "Songbird John"!!!!!!

Re: Former IRS chief Shulman reportedly visited White House at least 157 times

Originally Posted by Peter King

Yeah, the head of the NTEU met with Obama, but there the Bubble that republican live in comes to surface once again.

1. they did not meet in the White House but at the OEOB
2. this was not a private meeting but a forum with loads of other guests
3. this was at a public event, the workplace flexibility forum at which Obama gave the closing speech

4. this was a highly publicized and reported on event, again, not a meeting between Obama and the NTEU leader
5. the targeting of tea party groups had originated at the beginning of March 2010
6. the Inspector General wrote in his report:
The IRS Inspector General said Tuesday that incompetence, not malice, was behind the tax agency’s heavy scrutiny of conservative groups applying for tax-exempt status in the lead-up to the 2012 elections.

A 48-page IG report explicitly stated that the IRS behavior was “not politically biased,” that it was due to lower-level staff who did not understand their jobs and sometimes acted insubordinately, and that it was not driven by the White House.

In other words, the NTEU leader did not "meet" Obama after which the targeting started, the Inspector General concluded after an investigation it was not malicious nor was the targeting politically biased or driving by the White House.

So yes, very much coincidence and a lot of over the top conspiracy theorizing rather than factual following of what actually happened.

I see, so you think that it had to be a full fledged sit down meeting for any message to be translated into action? As for the IG, even his office is suspect here...If you remember the report from him was supposed to come out in September 2012 I believe, but then for no reason given it is held back til May of 2013? Then there is the fact that the IG did NOT investigate anything, his parameters were narrow, hell, he didn't even raise flags during the audit when he couldn't get an answer himself as to who initiated this wrongdoing ....

You guys are grasping at straws to try and dismiss this serious issue.

Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Re: Former IRS chief Shulman reportedly visited White House at least 157 times

Originally Posted by j-mac

I see, so you think that it had to be a full fledged sit down meeting for any message to be translated into action? As for the IG, even his office is suspect here...If you remember the report from him was supposed to come out in September 2012 I believe, but then for no reason given it is held back til May of 2013? Then there is the fact that the IG did NOT investigate anything, his parameters were narrow, hell, he didn't even raise flags during the audit when he couldn't get an answer himself as to who initiated this wrongdoing ....

You guys are grasping at straws to try and dismiss this serious issue.

Aah yes, the if we imagine or make up things they magically happened.

So when the head of NTEU goes to a forum at a location where the president also makes a speech, it automatically means foul play because that evil Kenyan Socialist is out to get us and he must have whispered in the ears of the NTEU president to go make her IRS cronies make life difficult for Tea Party groups.

Yes, the inspector general withheld a report that completely clears Obama of wrongdoing for 8 months so that Foxnews and other right wing news media can malign and imagine their own findings and make bad press for the president, instead of making the report that all about clears Obama months ago.

And us guys grasping at straws? I am sorry but when facts come to the table usually the partisan answer is this:

Re: Former IRS chief Shulman reportedly visited White House at least 157 times

Originally Posted by Peter King

Aah yes, the if we imagine or make up things they magically happened.

So when the head of NTEU goes to a forum at a location where the president also makes a speech, it automatically means foul play because that evil Kenyan Socialist is out to get us and he must have whispered in the ears of the NTEU president to go make her IRS cronies make life difficult for Tea Party groups.

Yes, the inspector general withheld a report that completely clears Obama of wrongdoing for 8 months so that Foxnews and other right wing news media can malign and imagine their own findings and make bad press for the president, instead of making the report that all about clears Obama months ago.

And us guys grasping at straws? I am sorry but when facts come to the table usually the partisan answer is this:

the good old I can't hear you defense (don't worry, if the shoe is on the other foot a lot of democrats have the same defense strategy).

LOL !!

The inspector generals report didn't CLEAR ANYONE of wrong doings.

It was not within his scope to snuff out the people who started this policy.

But hey, you guys want this to go away, I get it. Hell if it were up to you a simple audit with narrow scope would be plenty to put this all to bed.

Democrats ..." can we please just talk about something else....please "

Nope, not gonna happen. We're all going to find out just how deep the rabbit hole goes as the House and Republican Comittees keep their eye on the ball and gather up people who I'm sure will pick their freedom over some higher ups safety.

Can't say we didn't warn you.

It's going to get interesting as more and more damaging information finds its way to the surface. As more information that implicates TOP WHITE HOUSE OFFICIALS reveals itself under intense scrutiny and proves that Obama knew all allong.

There's going to be two reactions from Liberals.

One, they're going to go full on Garden Rat Crazy on us and publicly agree with the IRS being used as a political tool to violate peoples Constitutional Rights. They may even demand the Government go further, detain each and everypne of us.

Or, they will concede they were taken for a ride by the media, by a corrupt group of Chicago thugs.

Re: Former IRS chief Shulman reportedly visited White House at least 157 times

Originally Posted by Peter King

Aah yes, the if we imagine or make up things they magically happened.

Oh, so the IRS didn't target conservative groups for undue scrutiny? Man, that is shocking...Then why'd they apologize for it?

So when the head of NTEU goes to a forum at a location where the president also makes a speech, it automatically means foul play because that evil Kenyan Socialist is out to get us and he must have whispered in the ears of the NTEU president to go make her IRS cronies make life difficult for Tea Party groups.

Oh for God's sake...Can we please stop with the childish racist crap for a moment here..And no, for about the 25th time on here I don't think it was some cheezy tv scripted bs, but what it was, was over time, Obama's own words demonizing the TP, and other political foes on the campaign trail, then who knows...I think that a political hack like Lois Lerner, and this Connely woman from NTEU thought they could get away with it, I mean after all, Lerner did it before, in fact she has a long history of intimidation at the FEC, and IRS....

But Obama's answer to the people? Fire a guy who was resigning anyway in about two weeks, and give Lerner a paid summer vacation on our dime....I guess he's saying "Good Job Lois".....

Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Re: Former IRS chief Shulman reportedly visited White House at least 157 times

Originally Posted by Peter King

Aah yes, the if we imagine or make up things they magically happened.

So when the head of NTEU goes to a forum at a location where the president also makes a speech, it automatically means foul play because that evil Kenyan Socialist is out to get us and he must have whispered in the ears of the NTEU president to go make her IRS cronies make life difficult for Tea Party groups.

Yes, the inspector general withheld a report that completely clears Obama of wrongdoing for 8 months so that Foxnews and other right wing news media can malign and imagine their own findings and make bad press for the president, instead of making the report that all about clears Obama months ago.

And us guys grasping at straws? I am sorry but when facts come to the table usually the partisan answer is this:

Nearly three-quarters of the political groups subjected to extra tax inspection during a recent IRS scandal were not identifiably opponents of the White House, officials have revealed.

Republicans have called for a special prosecutor to investigate what they call "attacks on American democracy" after it emerged that rightwing groups were singled out for special treatment by the Inland Revenue Service.

But in testimony before Congress, two senior civil servants brought in to clean up after the affair gave evidence that suggests the reality may have been more complex than a simple case of political bias.

The IRS office in Cincinnati which decides whether to exempt such groups from income tax singled out 72 of them for scrutiny because they were openly affiliated with the Tea Party movement, together with 24 others whose names included associated labels such as "patriot".

To qualify for tax exempt status such groups have to show they are not directly backing a political candidate but they are allowed to campaign on general "civic issues".

However a further 226 other political groups were also placed in the same review whose affiliations were not immediately apparent from their name alone, which is often the case among liberal campaign groups. It remains unknown how many of these were in fact Democrat-leaning groups, partly because individual names cannot be publicly released under IRS confidentiality laws.

Nearly three-quarters of the political groups subjected to extra tax inspection during a recent IRS scandal were not identifiably opponents of the White House, officials have revealed.

Republicans have called for a special prosecutor to investigate what they call "attacks on American democracy" after it emerged that rightwing groups were singled out for special treatment by the Inland Revenue Service.

But in testimony before Congress, two senior civil servants brought in to clean up after the affair gave evidence that suggests the reality may have been more complex than a simple case of political bias.

The IRS office in Cincinnati which decides whether to exempt such groups from income tax singled out 72 of them for scrutiny because they were openly affiliated with the Tea Party movement, together with 24 others whose names included associated labels such as "patriot".

To qualify for tax exempt status such groups have to show they are not directly backing a political candidate but they are allowed to campaign on general "civic issues".

However a further 226 other political groups were also placed in the same review whose affiliations were not immediately apparent from their name alone, which is often the case among liberal campaign groups. It remains unknown how many of these were in fact Democrat-leaning groups, partly because individual names cannot be publicly released under IRS confidentiality laws.

Well, goody....Then:

1. Why did the IRS apologize for doing it?

2. Why did Lois Lerner try to take the 5th?

3. Why did Obama pull a stunt of a fake firing of a man that was resigning in 2 weeks anyway?

Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Re: Former IRS chief Shulman reportedly visited White House at least 157 times

Originally Posted by j-mac

Well, goody....Then:

1. Why did the IRS apologize for doing it?

2. Why did Lois Lerner try to take the 5th?

3. Why did Obama pull a stunt of a fake firing of a man that was resigning in 2 weeks anyway?

I'm not inside their heads, so I don't know the answer to any of those questions. Why do innocent people confess to crimes they didn't commit? Whether any of us like it, it's the job of the IRS to prevent fraud. How exactly were Republicans / conservatives impacted y what happened?