Here are the fireworks. The men who conspired and laboredTo embroil this republic in the wreck of Europe have got their bargain -And a bushel more. As for me, what can I do but fly the national flag from the top of the tower?America has neither race nor religion nor its own lan- guage: nation or nothing. Stare, little tower,Confidently across the Pacific, the flag on your head. I built you at the other war's end,And the sick peace; I based you on living rock, granite on granite; I said, "Look, you gray stones:Civilization is sick; stand awhile and be quiet and drink the sea-wind, you will surviveCivilization." But now I am old, and O stones be modest. Look, little tower:This dust blowing is only the British Empire; these torn leaves flyingAre only Europe; the wind is the plane-propellers; the smoke is Tokyo. The child with the butchered throatWas too young to be named. Look no further ahead.

II

The war that we have carefully for years provokedCatches us unprepared, amazed and indignant. Our war- ships are shotLike sitting ducks and our planes like nest-birds, both our coasts ridiculously panicked,And our leaders make orations. This is the peopleThat hopes to impose on the whole planetary worldAn American peace. (Oh, we'll not lose our war: my money on amazed GulliverAnd his horse-pistols.) Meanwhile our prudent officersHave cleared the coast-long ocean of ships and fishing- craft, the sky of planes, the windows of light: these clearingsMake a great beauty. Watch the wide sea; there is noth- ing human; its gulls have it. Watch the wide skyAll day clean of machines; only at dawn and dusk one military hawk passesHigh on patrol. Walk at night in the black-out,The firefly lights that used to line the long shoreAre all struck dumb; shut are the shops, mouse-dark the houses. Here the prehuman dignity of nightStands, as it was before and will be again. O beautifulDarkness and silence, the two eyes that see God; great staring eyes.

I'm sure you'd be a decent human being if you weren't a little oily jewbag."

I'm not Andrew Molyuk, I'm 6'4", and I'm an American goy - yet I'm still not a decent human being. Other than that, you nailed me.

I wonder whether I should choose a different screen name. Sooner or later one of Andrew's friends will ask him why he reads fascist hate sites. OTOH, it is pretty funny to imagine an Israeli software engineer wasting his time on a site dedicated to Anglo-American political history.

The Chinese guy's right. During the Song Dynasty, Wang Anshi's reforms were part of a major Confucian revival that drew inspiration from shared classical ideals and was fostered by the "Old Culture" Movement that had begun in the Tang and sought the transformation of state and society along with culture and literature.

"it is pretty funny to imagine an Israeli software engineer wasting his time on a site dedicated to Anglo-American political history."

The author of this blog is essentially an Israeli software engineer. He's a jew boy software engineer wasting his time with Anglo-American political history, a history he has about as much a connection with as he does with Japanese Imperial history. Having a carpetbagger dad who "worked in Washington" doesn't count. He probably has fewer roots in this country than Barack Hussein Obama.

It's official; this blog has attracted neo-nazis. Apparently someone forgot to lock their cages. Joo! Joo! But on a more serious note, I feel that Mencius is going in circles; re-writing blog posts that he's written before. I'd like to hear him explain the origins of the "W-force" and why it's so successfully adaptive. He traces it back to Cromwell and the Roundheads, but I'd like him to be more specific.

He probably has fewer roots in this country than Barack Hussein Obama.

Mencius admits this much but nevertheless seems to be very sympathetic to the historic America and the "Vaisyas." In a way this whole blog is his attempt to unmask the reality behind the powers that be who are a threat to this country.

As far a "Joo Joo Joo" goes, antisemites seem to have their mind made up about Jews. Whether they are right or wrong (I think they're more wrong than right) it's easier to mock them than it is to explain why ever CPUSA member, every ACLU lawyer, every pro-immigration organization, every SPLC apparatchik seems to have a Jewish last name.

I respect Larry Auster's attitude: he's Jewish and certainly not "self-hating" but he is extremely critical of Jewish leftism in the severet of terms.

I dunno that Mencius admits to having few roots in America. I recall his writing that he has no cultural ties to the Vaisyas, but that he sympathizes with them more than the Brahmins he was raised with/by. I don't remember ever seeing him claim a preference for any other country. Other country's former rulers, yes; but that's not the same thing. He likes the way Singapore & Dubai operate, but he's never discussed nor suggested moving to either one. So far as I know, he's never shown any support for Israel whatever. To the contrary, his fondness for old-school sovereignty law would put Israel at a serious disadvantage.

You're right that it's easier to mock the anti-semites than to explain why so many Jews have been integral to progressivism for nearly a century. My opinion is that any high-IQ subgroup who prizes education is bound to have disproportionate representation in any intellectual movement. There seem to be more right-wing Somethingsteins on the Internet than you'd expect based on the stereotype that they're all leftists. If East Asians were less insular & more political, I believe they too would dominate politics the way they seem to dominate so many university engineering departments.

Is there a spray for Stormfront infestation? They give the Right a bad name. Figglehorn, if you're an American, why would anyone believe Mencius is the enemy and you're a loyal patriot when you salute a German flag? Don't give me any of that "White Separatist, not White Supremacist" garbage either.

The official moldbug line on the Jews vis a vis progressivism is that they are the ones who have adopted it; that they have not affected its ideological content while it has changed theirs radically. That is to say, the ancient Christian dream of converting the Jews has finally been realized... it just required dropping all the theological content from Christianity.

As for MM's "connections" to this country, you might be interested in this fairly recent exchange with Larry Auster. Scroll down to the end or search for "astroman".

You're right that it's easier to mock the anti-semites than to explain why so many Jews have been integral to progressivism for nearly a century.

Jews have been and are liberal because of cyclical periods of persecution.

On the question of whether Moldbug is right to claim Jews were corrupted by progressivism or whether the Jews corrupted progressivism, I'm not sure whether either the philosemites or antisemites can prove their case.

For example, the Frankfurt School was clearly influential, but if the Frankfurt school leftists had never existed would the counterculture revolution of the 1960's turned out much differently?

Also, why did so many white gentile elites become attracted to leftist progressivist intellectuals in the first place?

There have always been and always will be intellectuals with bad ideas, but why is it certain ideas take off in certain periods of time and other ideas flounder and are forgotten.

After all, it's not like the Frankfurt school professors or the Jean-Paul Sartre existentialists in France put guns to people's heads and forced them to accept their ideas. Elite gentiles could have easily ignored the Frankfurt school and all the other counterculture/Marxist intellectuals of the 1960's by dismissing them as crackpots.

Why did elite whites listen to all these bad ideas?

There must have been larger societal trends - whether economic, technological, social etc - that caused Western elites to be attracted to progressivist ideology.

"I dunno that Mencius admits to having few roots in America. I recall his writing that he has no cultural ties to the Vaisyas, but that he sympathizes with them more than the Brahmins he was raised with/by. I don't remember ever seeing him claim a preference for any other country. Other country's former rulers, yes; but that's not the same thing."

I would think that one would acknowledge at the very least that it's not merely a matter of preference or sympathy for a particular country or class.

"My opinion is that any high-IQ subgroup who prizes education is bound to have disproportionate representation in any intellectual movement."

Yes, the individuals of a highly intelligent subgroup will tend to be highly represented in intellectual movements, but will they be represented in ANY and all intellectual movements? Obviously no. In some intellectual and political movements they couldn't, nor would they have wanted to. Jews weren't running to join Martin Heidegger and Carl Schmitt in the Nazi movement.

"There seem to be more right-wing Somethingsteins on the Internet than you'd expect based on the stereotype that they're all leftists."

You're being disingenuous here. Any reader of UR would understand that the "right-wing Somethingsteins" you're referring to are generally not the same kind of "right-wing" as, oh say, Pat Buchanan, or even MM for that matter. There are only so many Paul Gottfrieds and Leon Hadars out there, and even Gottfried (to his great credit) will openly say that he possesses feelings of kinship with Israel and Israelis.

"Is there a spray for Stormfront infestation? They give the Right a bad name."

It's insulting to be considered a member or supporter of "Stormfront." "Stormfront" is a symptom of what happens when a people's history, tradition, and culture undergo massive attacks and are destroyed to a large degree. A wounded and uprooted people will try to establish some sort of organic connection with its past. Because the continued Leftist assault has left the people ignorant of its history and culture, it ends up creating a bastardized, mongrelized, and grotesque brew of Celtic Crosses, Confederate battle flags, and corny Nazi/Dungeons & Dragons mysticism. It's understandable why it takes this form, as it's perceived to be the people's "natural" or "organic" culture and tradition, an expression of its "racial essence". One understands and can sympathize with the enterprise. But one also wonders why it doesn't just ditch this particular project and adopt a faith or culture more amenable and hospitable to the goals of collective preservation and propagation, such as Islam, which despite its universalism would certainly be a much more effective agent of the desired goals than the current form of Western Civilization, especially if "whiteness" is paramount and the be all and end all.

"Figglehorn, if you're an American, why would anyone believe Mencius is the enemy and you're a loyal patriot when you salute a German flag?"

"The official moldbug line on the Jews vis a vis progressivism is that they are the ones who have adopted it; that they have not affected its ideological content while it has changed theirs radically."

Even I have enough respect for Jews and their intellect and ability to acknowledge that it hasn't been a one way relationship, that Jews have affected and influenced as much as they've taken in.

"That is to say, the ancient Christian dream of converting the Jews has finally been realized... it just required dropping all the theological content from Christianity."

If you are going to claim that the wholesale adoption of progressivism and Leftism on the part of Jews, and the extensive and fervent role of Jewish Leftist activism is simply a matter of the ancient dream of converting the Jews to Christianity being realized you are simply delusional. As if all that secular Jews really cared about were theological issues.

Much of MM's thought smacks of the Idealism that he has denounced before as being emblematic of what is wrong with human beings' brains. The Ideals of "Christianity" and "Progressivism" unfold and act upon agents and groups of agents through history. The Jews are a passive group merely caught up in this unfolding.

"As for MM's "connections" to this country, you might be interested in this fairly recent exchange with Larry Auster."

I'm not sure exactly which part of the bottom of this exchange you are referring to. Is it the "Foreign Service" part? If so, nothing comes to mind. You don't actually propose that that's supposed to mean anything, do you?

"The Undiscovered Jew" is quite sensible:

"Jews have been and are liberal because of cyclical periods of persecution. "

No paleocon, and few genuine, reasonable anti-semites, will deny this. It is perfectly understandable that cyclical periods of persecution have made Jews liberal, Leftist, progressive, etc.

However, here (s)he is a bit off:

"After all, it's not like the Frankfurt school professors or the Jean-Paul Sartre existentialists in France put guns to people's heads and forced them to accept their ideas. Elite gentiles could have easily ignored the Frankfurt school and all the other counterculture/Marxist intellectuals of the 1960's by dismissing them as crackpots....There must have been larger societal trends - whether economic, technological, social etc - that caused Western elites to be attracted to progressivist ideology."

It's hard to deny the various societal trends at work that contributed to this process. But it's equally hard to deny that a group which is arguably the most intelligent group of life forms that has ever existed on the planet, and thus conceivably that has ever existed in the universe, would have had a negligible effect. Even granting that the Jews were merely pawns of Progressivism or whatever, would it have been as successful and efficacious without the full force of this highly energetic and intelligent group behind it? Suggesting that it was simply a matter of choice, a choice freely up to gentiles to decide is a bit rich. I imagine you also believe that all AIPAC does is calmly offer a position for politicians to choose amongst a broad spectrum of positions, that these elite gentile politicians can just easily ignore AIPAC.

"After all, it's not like the Frankfurt school professors or the Jean-Paul Sartre existentialists in France put guns to people's heads and forced them to accept their ideas. Elite gentiles could have easily ignored the Frankfurt school and all the other counterculture/Marxist intellectuals of the 1960's by dismissing them as crackpots"

There are many, many examples showing that the idea that Jews have been passive, steady and restrained intellectuals and advocates is complete baloney.

Good, but let's hope you're not dumb enough to salute the "American" flag.

That flag represents a PeeCee multicultural empire (an empire both domestically and internationally) that bears no resemblance to the Republic of the Founders. All of the heroes of pre-1965 America are forgotten or excoriated for their racialist sins. George Washington and all the rest of Founders(plus Davy Crockett and Daniel Boone)collectively don't amount to a pimple on the sainted plagiarist's ass.

Suggesting that it was simply a matter of choice, a choice freely up to gentiles to decide is a bit rich. I imagine you also believe that all AIPAC does is calmly offer a position for politicians to choose amongst a broad spectrum of positions, that these elite gentile politicians can just easily ignore AIPAC.

Of course it was a matter of choice for white's to listen to leftwing intellectuals, both Jewish and gentile. Elite whites in America were never forced to accept leftist ideas, it has always been a free choice.

AIPAC has millions of dollars of lobbying money and they often have the sympathy of millions of evangelicals for religious reasons. The Frankfurt school were four crackpot communists sitting in an Ivory tower.

As I said, it isn't like the Frankfurt school put guns to the heads of millions of whites and forced them to accept their ideas.

Because they know there's no real rightist power base (outside of the possibility of the military, which can historically be expected not to act) -- so they can openly mock.

There's a great Shelby Steele article about why the GOP can't win the minority vote -- essentially, they aren't capturing the moral authority of "we done wrong and we're gonna pay you for it" that the Democrats have.

A restorationist/mencist voting block would do well to figure out how to game that system. . .

It's funny to see how you're so enamored with MM's theoretical musings that you're response to the comment about the "JList" is to resort to MM's constructions such as "rightist power base" and "restorationist/mencist voting block (sic)."

When it's obvious what the commenter is referring to where it says "...named it something other than the 'J' List."

You have to hand it to Mencius, though. He certainly is one hell of a talented representation of the Jew abilities of dissimulation.

"There's a great Shelby Steele article about why the GOP can't win the minority vote"

So I take it that you only read blacks 'n jews? (Steele & Mencius)...I suppose it doesn't really matter, considering that we're ruled by blacks 'n jews anyway (Obama, Axelrod, Holder Emmanuel, Summers, and on and on, et al.)

It's funny to see how you're so enamored with MM's theoretical musings that you're response to the comment about the "JList" is to resort to MM's constructions such as "rightist power base" and "restorationist/mencist voting block (sic)."

When it's obvious what the commenter is referring to where it says "...named it something other than the 'J' List."

You have to hand it to Mencius, though. He certainly is one hell of a talented representation of the Jew abilities of dissimulation.

"There's a great Shelby Steele article about why the GOP can't win the minority vote"

So I take it that you only read blacks 'n jews? (Steele & Mencius)...I suppose it doesn't really matter, considering that we're ruled by blacks 'n jews anyway (Obama, Axelrod, Holder Emmanuel, Summers, and on and on, et al.)

I love how antisemites can get themselves so worked up with their usual all consuming viciousness and unbearable self righteousness over an extremely obscure blog that is written mostly tongue in cheek and for the amusement of the reader.

I'm not sure how you can describe the previous comment as an example of "all consuming viciousness and unbearable self righteousness" while at the same time describing MM's work as "mostly tongue in cheek and for the amusement of the reader."

How do you know that the comment wasn't "mostly tongue in cheek and for the amusement of the reader"?

One can be anti-semitic, or dislike Jews, or find them unpleasant, grotesque, etc., without being crazy, consumed by viciousness, or unbearably self-righteous.

MM has made jokes and snide comments about blacks on his own and other blogs that would be condemned by blacks and others as "anti-black" or "racist". This fact certainly doesn't qualify MM as crazy or loony.

In fact, MM seems much more clear headed, and definitively less crazy, than those who would charge him with the above labels.

Mencius, have you read about or listened to any of Dmitry Orlov's stuff? If so, do you think he's exaggerating, or is there real substance there?

I think the furthest you've discussed about any sort of collapse is strictly with respect to a collapse in the financial/monetary order. Orlov extrapolates further and connects this to a wider Soviet style collapse.

While you asked MM, let me also answer your question. I have never read Orlov before but now that you have pointed me to his pennings, I have read a few of his essays. While I strongly disagree with his peak oil scenarios, it is difficult not to notice those parallels between the Perestroika-era S.U. and the Change-era U.S. Like Orlov, I was born in Leningrad and left as a child (at age 3, though), and just like him, I visited very frequently in the end of eighties and in the early nineties.

In particular, the behavior of the American scientific establishment is decidedly late-Soviet. They are all busy predicting a bright future for themselves and their pet projects, while it is more and more certain that if they cannot find something directly profitable for themselves to do, and soon, they will have problems feeding themselves and their families as grant money from Washington dries up.

Hint: American scientists already spend way more time fighting for funding (a negative-sum game) than doing science. And this includes writing huge amounts of publications about insignificant, half-baked discoveries, arranging proof-of-concept demos, and seeking publicity in mainstream media. The steady increase of world-saving scientific breakthrough reports (where the team needs just a little more funding to turn their scientific magic into world-saving reality) in mass-media has a distinct late-Soviet feel to it.