Recently, I've decided to make a big change in my campaign setting. In order to make it a little different, and a little more fantastical, I'm going to use superman immortal elves. But Xeviat, how will you balance elf PCs? Simple: they're not playable. At least not traditionally.

The races of D&D formerly known as elf (High, Wood, Dark, Winged, Aquatic, whatever) are going to join the Half-Elf as various Half-Elves. They will have a new, modified base race, with their sub race chosen by the domain of their Elven ancestor. What is the Half-Elf now is what you get when Elven blood is sufficiently diluted: a charming, sociable human. The other half-elves are closer to their Elven blood, having deep ties to magic, the forest, the unseelie darkness, the sky, or the sea.

Pure Elves will still be playable, but only children. Elflings will be a new player race, almost filling the same mischievous, curious role of the Gnome (in Endless Horizon, the Gnomes are Earth spirits). Elf children are often on their own, being too free spirited to fit in with the Fey Courts of their parents. They often come to the mortal world to explore, to test themselves, and to grow.

What do you think Elven children would be like? Child immortals with parents who are forces of nature. Immature. Brash. Fearless. Both a part and apart from their society.

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I love this idea. If you've ever read the Draconomicon, it goes into deep depth into Draconic psychology and aging. Basically it takes a long time for dragons to mature. Also this quote sums up long term life span psychology:

"A good answer today is better than the perfect answer tommorow" said the human.

I imagine elf children would have a strange mixture of taking their sweet time for important things, while rushing to do seemingly insignificant things. A desire to experience everything. A curiosity of mortals (why else would they not be living in the spirit world with their parents).

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Xeviat

Recently, I've decided to make a big change in my campaign setting. In order to make it a little different, and a little more fantastical, I'm going to use superman immortal elves. But Xeviat, how will you balance elf PCs? Simple: they're not playable. At least not traditionally.

The races of D&D formerly known as elf (High, Wood, Dark, Winged, Aquatic, whatever) are going to join the Half-Elf as various Half-Elves. They will have a new, modified base race, with their sub race chosen by the domain of their Elven ancestor. What is the Half-Elf now is what you get when Elven blood is sufficiently diluted: a charming, sociable human. The other half-elves are closer to their Elven blood, having deep ties to magic, the forest, the unseelie darkness, the sky, or the sea.

Pure Elves will still be playable, but only children. Elflings will be a new player race, almost filling the same mischievous, curious role of the Gnome (in Endless Horizon, the Gnomes are Earth spirits). Elf children are often on their own, being too free spirited to fit in with the Fey Courts of their parents. They often come to the mortal world to explore, to test themselves, and to grow.

What do you think Elven children would be like? Child immortals with parents who are forces of nature. Immature. Brash. Fearless. Both a part and apart from their society.

First of all, I like this idea a lot. It's a cool twist on the classic.

As for what they'd be like, I think that they sound less like gnomes and more like Halflings as depicted in most versions of DnD. Full of life and joy and wanting to just experience everything. But I see them, from what you described, being constant virtuosos. I know I have forever, so I'm going to extract every ounce of joy from painting / battle / exploration that I can.

They may even view growing up the way mortal races see dying. When they age, they know they'll become like their ancestors - distant, aloof, withdrawn from the world, and may find that as existentially terrifying as American teens find a boring office job - but it's also inevitable, so it has a bit of an adult fear of death.

Sparkletwist

It's llitul and the brain, llitul and the brain, one is a genius and the other's insane

Proud Receiver of a Golden Dorito

UNLESS OTHERWISE NOTED IN THE POST, NONE OF THE ABOVE CONTENT IS CONSIDERED OGC, EXCEPT FOR MATERIALS ALREADY MADE OGC BY PRIOR PUBLISHERSAppendix I: Open Game License Version 1.0aThe following text is the property of Wizards of the Coast, Inc. and is Copyright 2000 Wizards of the Coast, Inc ("Wizards"). All Rights Reserved.1. 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All sublicenses shall survive the termination of this License.14 Reformation: If any provision of this License is held to be unenforceable, such provision shall be reformed only to the extent necessary to make it enforceable.15 COPYRIGHT NOTICEOpen Game License v 1.0 Copyright 2000, Wizards of the Coast, Inc.Fudge 10th Anniversary Edition Copyright 2005, Grey Ghost Press, Inc.; Authors Steffan O'Sullivan and Ann Dupuis, with additional material by Jonathan Benn, Peter Bonney, Deird'Re Brooks, Reimer Behrends, Don Bisdorf, Carl Cravens, Shawn Garbett, Steven Hammond, Ed Heil, Bernard Hsiung, J.M. "Thijs" Krijger, Sedge Lewis, Shawn Lockard, Gordon McCormick, Kent Matthewson, Peter Mikelsons, Robb Neumann, Anthony Roberson, Andy Skinner, William Stoddard, Stephan Szabo, John Ughrin, Alex Weldon, Duke York, Dmitri ZagidulinSystem Reference Document Copyright 2000-2003, Wizards of the Coast, Inc.; Authors Jonathan Tweet, Monte Cook, Skip Williams, Rich Baker, Andy Collins, David Noonan, Rich Redman, Bruce R. Cordell, based on original material by E. Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson.

Xathan

They may even view growing up the way mortal races see dying. When they age, they know they'll become like their ancestors - distant, aloof, withdrawn from the world, and may find that as existentially terrifying as American teens find a boring office job - but it's also inevitable, so it has a bit of an adult fear of death.

OH! That is most definitely stolen. There's a point in their life where they cross a threshold. Maybe they have to hibernate and awaken as an adult elf. Or maybe it's slower, more subtle.

Thinking on that, if I was doing a D&D3 style statting everything approach, how would you stat adult elves? Just level X in a class with some beefy racial abilities? Or something more?

With the halfling comparison, how do I separate them from my setting's Halflings? Halflings in my world evolved from spider monkeys (and are as close to them as we are to apes). Their native culture (I try to go with cultures and not subraces, and eventually will redo the races that way) lives on an island so full of dragons that they are nomadic, abstaining from building permanent structures. On the mainland, this has changed to bands of traveling village caravans, where they move from town to town as the seasons change and set up shop on the outskirts. Others live in the cities, and are more culturally assimilated with the humans or dwarves they live with (not many halflings live with Ifrit, Tritons, and Valkyrie, simply because they live in harsher environments, and halflings are much closer to the mammals than the others), where they often pack 4 to 1 and retrofit buildings with extra floors to accommodate them.

I wouldn't want them to become too similar.

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Xeviat

OH! That is most definitely stolen. There's a point in their life where they cross a threshold. Maybe they have to hibernate and awaken as an adult elf. Or maybe it's slower, more subtle.

I would go with the slower, more subtle approach, because it could be interesting for a player to choose to play an Elfling going through that transition, which could take years - so if the player wants to play an Eflling trying to hold onto their attachment to the world, they can.

Quote

Thinking on that, if I was doing a D&D3 style statting everything approach, how would you stat adult elves? Just level X in a class with some beefy racial abilities? Or something more?

Adult elves, IMO, should be fey type and some beefy racial abilities and racial hitdice, with the ability to cast spells like an X level sorcerer. I'd actually check into some of the 3.5 elf-only prestige classes for ideas for racial abilities. In theory, it should matter what class they were as a Elfling, but in reality the game won't take long enough to get to the point where the players would notice all the elves are carbon copies stat-wise.

Quote

With the halfling comparison, how do I separate them from my setting's Halflings? Halflings in my world evolved from spider monkeys (and are as close to them as we are to apes). Their native culture (I try to go with cultures and not subraces, and eventually will redo the races that way) lives on an island so full of dragons that they are nomadic, abstaining from building permanent structures. On the mainland, this has changed to bands of traveling village caravans, where they move from town to town as the seasons change and set up shop on the outskirts. Others live in the cities, and are more culturally assimilated with the humans or dwarves they live with (not many halflings live with Ifrit, Tritons, and Valkyrie, simply because they live in harsher environments, and halflings are much closer to the mammals than the others), where they often pack 4 to 1 and retrofit buildings with extra floors to accommodate them.

I wouldn't want them to become too similar.

Easiest way to seperate them, IMO, is make them arrogant. Sure, they fear the idea of their eventual immortality and distancing from the world, but they also know they will - no matter what they do - become these amazingly powerful beings. They're infant immortals, and so they know they're better than everyone else. On top of that, they're basically teenagers, and we all know how cruel and arrogant self-important teenagers can be. It's the kind of thing that could go to anyone's head, and while their might be the occasional one that is humble about it.

Sparkletwist

It's llitul and the brain, llitul and the brain, one is a genius and the other's insane

Proud Receiver of a Golden Dorito

UNLESS OTHERWISE NOTED IN THE POST, NONE OF THE ABOVE CONTENT IS CONSIDERED OGC, EXCEPT FOR MATERIALS ALREADY MADE OGC BY PRIOR PUBLISHERSAppendix I: Open Game License Version 1.0aThe following text is the property of Wizards of the Coast, Inc. and is Copyright 2000 Wizards of the Coast, Inc ("Wizards"). All Rights Reserved.1. Definitions: (a)"Contributors" means the copyright and/or trademark owners who have contributed Open Game Content; (b)"Derivative Material" means copyrighted material including derivative works and translations (including into other computer languages), potation, modification, correction, addition, extension, upgrade, improvement, compilation, abridgment or other form in which an existing work may be recast, transformed or adapted; (c) "Distribute" means to reproduce, license, rent, lease, sell, broadcast, publicly display, transmit or otherwise distribute; (d)"Open Game Content" means the game mechanic and includes the methods, procedures, processes and routines to the extent such content does not embody the Product Identity and is an enhancement over the prior art and any additional content clearly identified as Open Game Content by the Contributor, and means any work covered by this License, including translations and derivative works under copyright law, but specifically excludes Product Identity. 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(h) "You" or "Your" means the licensee in terms of this agreement.2. The License: This License applies to any Open Game Content that contains a notice indicating that the Open Game Content may only be Used under and in terms of this License. You must affix such a notice to any Open Game Content that you Use. No terms may be added to or subtracted from this License except as described by the License itself. No other terms or conditions may be applied to any Open Game Content distributed using this License.3. Offer and Acceptance: By Using the Open Game Content You indicate Your acceptance of the terms of this License.4. Grant and Consideration: In consideration for agreeing to use this License, the Contributors grant You a perpetual, worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive license with the exact terms of this License to Use, the Open Game Content.5. Representation of Authority to Contribute: If You are contributing original material as Open Game Content, You represent that Your Contributions are Your original creation and/or You have sufficient rights to grant the rights conveyed by this License.6. Notice of License Copyright: You must update the COPYRIGHT NOTICE portion of this License to include the exact text of the COPYRIGHT NOTICE of any Open Game Content You are copying, modifying or distributing, and You must add the title, the copyright date, and the copyright holder's name to the COPYRIGHT NOTICE of any original Open Game Content you Distribute.7. Use of Product Identity: You agree not to Use any Product Identity, including as an indication as to compatibility, except as expressly licensed in another, independent Agreement with the owner of each element of that Product Identity. You agree not to indicate compatibility or co-adaptability with any Trademark or Registered Trademark in conjunction with a work containing Open Game Content except as expressly licensed in another, independent Agreement with the owner of such Trademark or Registered Trademark. The use of any Product Identity in Open Game Content does not constitute a challenge to the ownership of that Product Identity. The owner of any Product Identity used in Open Game Content shall retain all rights, title and interest in and to that Product Identity.8. Identification: If you distribute Open Game Content You must clearly indicate which portions of the work that you are distributing are Open Game Content.9. Updating the License: Wizards or its designated Agents may publish updated versions of this License. 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All sublicenses shall survive the termination of this License.14 Reformation: If any provision of this License is held to be unenforceable, such provision shall be reformed only to the extent necessary to make it enforceable.15 COPYRIGHT NOTICEOpen Game License v 1.0 Copyright 2000, Wizards of the Coast, Inc.Fudge 10th Anniversary Edition Copyright 2005, Grey Ghost Press, Inc.; Authors Steffan O'Sullivan and Ann Dupuis, with additional material by Jonathan Benn, Peter Bonney, Deird'Re Brooks, Reimer Behrends, Don Bisdorf, Carl Cravens, Shawn Garbett, Steven Hammond, Ed Heil, Bernard Hsiung, J.M. "Thijs" Krijger, Sedge Lewis, Shawn Lockard, Gordon McCormick, Kent Matthewson, Peter Mikelsons, Robb Neumann, Anthony Roberson, Andy Skinner, William Stoddard, Stephan Szabo, John Ughrin, Alex Weldon, Duke York, Dmitri ZagidulinSystem Reference Document Copyright 2000-2003, Wizards of the Coast, Inc.; Authors Jonathan Tweet, Monte Cook, Skip Williams, Rich Baker, Andy Collins, David Noonan, Rich Redman, Bruce R. Cordell, based on original material by E. Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson.

Just now, I thought of something I'm going to add. Goblins and goblinoids are fey. Maaaaaaaaybe orcs too, but I'm not sure if I really need Orcs and big goblins. Either way, Goblins and Elves are the same "species". As children, if elves develop the wrong way, if they become corrupted, they become goblins. Goblins then breed true. I don't know if I'll have goblins age up to hobgoblins and then up to bugbears.

I like the idea of having the "evil" races be truly evil. Corrupt. Abominations against nature. A disease that seriously needs to be eradicated. This way, when I throw "evil" creatures at my players, it's a subtle signal that they don't have to worry about the morality of it. But when I put them in conflict with any of the non-evil races, I don't just want killing.

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