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Join Date

May 2008

Posts

3,664

Re: Dontari Poe Versus Arkansas State

Thanks for posting...Didn't see this one.

Feel even better about him now. Mayock talked a little about this one. Don't forget people...He won't be a one gap penetrator. He will be on the nose, a zero technique, and read through the block. What I saw when he lined up inside is a space eater. He was disruptive and required double teams. In the backfield alot. You could see he was less comfortable in space on the edge and putting him further from the play sometimes elimanted him from it. Everything negative being said is coachable. His hand placment will be the key to how fast he comes through the rotation. Being that Smith's dominance was because of how well he used his hands...I feel real good that coach is on the staff. Taking plays off...I saw that too. So condition on the NFL level will be introduced to him. This isn't a big story any draft for big men. Someone watching this would have noticed part of the gameplan was the tempo of the offense to use against the big men. Putting Poe in the 5 tech was poor coaching against a fast tempo team who liked to pass.

Let you in on something that most of you missed being a DL/OL guy myself. Poe was obviously part of the gameplan for the DC. Everyone at the combine talked about who played around Poe in Memephis. Big part of production. When you watch the tape, you could see the help in pass pro with RB. You could see push wherever he lined up. You could see the double teams up front. You could see the single block cuts which is part of the gameplan. Keeping OL off your legs is part of coaching at the next level. The most that stuck out is understanding the pulling of OG. Onside plays that weren't double were fold & combinations. They couldn't pull backside G to trap effectively inside A & B gap. The biggest evidence was the influence pulls I saw by the G's that the OC put in his gameplan. For those of you that don't know...You use an influence when you have a DL who reads the pulling G and follows the plan down the line & you can't cut him off. When you are having a guy beat you like that and you can't block him when he reads...Your G pulls backside to trap (influence), The DL reads and follows the play but the play goes away. You do that in a game to slow him down in his reads. You block him by his read and the influence. It was gameplanned because they couldn't block him.

What I see is the RAW that is talked about. The ingredients are there to make an elite player. He has no limitations based upon his athleticism and position. What I see is a cog in a defense at teh next level. A kid that will make the system work and allow your LBs to shine. A piece to the puzzle like this doesn't come along often. Id there a risk? Of course, there is always a risk in the draft. But the ceiling on this kid could be something better than Hampton. You could say "but what if"...But you could say that for anyone else you want to use to fill in the blanks. Hightower's head isn't far from the ceiling. His upside will vary depending where he goes. Stick him in a DL defense....Solid ILB. Will he ever be a Willis, Lewis, Johnson, or Timmons? No...He just doesn't have the skill set or athleticism. Can Poe hit the elite like Ngata, Wilfork, Hampton, & Seymour? Ingredients are there....He has no limitations if he is coachable. But he needs to realize his potential.

What you see is a down hill ILB who shows some pass rush ability when moved to the outside. When he is clean (unblocked) he finds the ball very well. What you do see is an ILB who doesn't attack the gaps and makes plays off the LOS. If he is engaged or takes a false step he struggles to get back in the play. He also takes plays off away but when his motor is on can be a force between the tackles. Can run & chase sideline to sideline but lacks change or direction or recovery from cutback. You didn't see him man-up alot against a TE or RB but there were plays where he didn't look good in space when they caught the ball in his zone. He is a good football player but is not a "sudden" athlete. To give you a gauge...His 10 yard split was a 1.65 and Poe was a 1.68, Cox 1.63, Coples 1.63. and Worthy 1.64. Meaning his short area quickness ranks with the DL. So again, after seeing that and you go back to the tape you can see his straight line speed but you could see the stop & go speed the 10 yard split suggest.

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Re: Dontari Poe Versus Arkansas State

Originally Posted by grotonsteel

JPN, do you coach or in scouting department??? Great Analysis of players especially for a layman like me.

You have made me a fan of Dontari Poe.

Thanks. I coach. Been around football and football minds my whole life. I gather information from alot of the resources available to us because I love the game. 2 knee surgeries put a damper on following my dream but my love for the game never stopped.

Poe has all the ingredients you need to be something special. If he is coachable...He could obtain the elite status. One would question why he ended up at Memphis and why we didn't hear of him more. He played on a poor defense. I usually take a player in those situations and plug him in on a more successful team. Since Hightower looks to be another fan favorite, what would Poe have done on that D? Alabama's run defense 2.43 yards a carry so it was already stout. Well I think it is safe to say we all would have heard more about him obviously. More importantly, I think Hightower would have posted over 100+ tackles last 2 years along with 15-20 TFL. That is what a guy like Poe gives you. Your aren't going to get stats on his resume but the team will benefit from him across the board. He is a grunt and if he is that unselfish player that will do that work...He is of great value.

What you see is a down hill ILB who shows some pass rush ability when moved to the outside. When he is clean (unblocked) he finds the ball very well. What you do see is an ILB who doesn't attack the gaps and makes plays off the LOS. If he is engaged or takes a false step he struggles to get back in the play. He also takes plays off away but when his motor is on can be a force between the tackles. Can run & chase sideline to sideline but lacks change or direction or recovery from cutback. You didn't see him man-up alot against a TE or RB but there were plays where he didn't look good in space when they caught the ball in his zone. He is a good football player but is not a "sudden" athlete. To give you a gauge...His 10 yard split was a 1.65 and Poe was a 1.68, Cox 1.63, Coples 1.63. and Worthy 1.64. Meaning his short area quickness ranks with the DL. So again, after seeing that and you go back to the tape you can see his straight line speed but you could see the stop & go speed the 10 yard split suggest.

Come JPN, you are better than this. You are nit-picking on a player who has played at an elite level for most of his time at Alabama while playing in the overall best conference in all college football. I have never said Hightower is perfect. In fact I too have even come out and talked about his areas over concern. But when you look at the big picture and his overall work, you should be able to see that is a legitimate first round talent. There isnt a player who ever played that gave 100% al the time. Comparing some of Hightower's minor flaws in these clips is no where near the inadequacies of what is shown in the clip of Dontari Poe versus Arkansas State.

And again, you guys can talk all you want about Hightower's lack of speed and quickness, but I have shown that isnt true. Look at the clips and how he is able to get to the QB from 5 yards off the LOS from the ILB spot. On the field Hightower plays a lot quicker than some want to admit. And here, I'll show this again...

Dont'a Hightower had the 4th fastest 40 yard dash of all ILB's and he ran as good or better than...

3 Rb's
3 Wr's
4 TE's
7 OLB's
11 DB's

JPN, you are a very knowledgeable poster, however I think you are overlooking the obvious with your desire to have Dontari Poe a Steeler.

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Re: Dontari Poe Versus Arkansas State

JPN, do you coach or in scouting department??? Great Analysis of players especially for a layman like me.

You have made me a fan of Dontari Poe.

grotonsteel, again dont take this personal, but arent you more concerned with what a player actually does on the field? How can you say this after watching the clip I posted?

Analysis is great and all but if it is primarily in regards to projecting what a player may do really leaves you with nothing more than a project. Go look at this clip and come back and honestly say you would use the #24 overall pick on him for the Steelers.

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Re: Dontari Poe Versus Arkansas State

What I see is the RAW that is talked about. The ingredients are there to make an elite player........But he needs to realize his potential.

I see this too, but I dont see using the number 24 overall pick on this. No way![/quote:zwwwrb2y]

And we can agree we disagree. I feel the same about Hightower. The upside between the two is much higher with Poe and the drop off of ILB talent between Hightower and the 2nd & 3rd rounders seems much tighter. Poe, Worthy, & Ta'amu seem to have seperated themselves from the rest in our system and they are those "special type" that Colbert talked about. If you want them and they are any good you have to get them early. I will take Kuechley as a 1st round ILB and look elsewhere if possible if he is gone. If they have to pick and he is the Highest rated player left on the board...So be it.

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May 2008

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3,664

Re: Dontari Poe Versus Arkansas State

Originally Posted by Dee Dub

Come JPN, you are better than this. You are nit-picking on a player who has played at an elite level for most of his time at Alabama while playing in the overall best conference in all college football. I have never said Hightower is perfect. In fact I too have even come out and talked about his areas over concern. But when you look at the big picture and his overall work, you should be able to see that is a legitimate first round talent. There isnt a player who ever played that gave 100% al the time. Comparing some of Hightower's minor flaws in these clips is no where near the inadequacies of what is shown in the clip of Dontari Poe versus Arkansas State.

And again, you guys can talk all you want about Hightower's lack of speed and quickness, but I have shown that isnt true. Look at the clips and how he is able to get to the QB from 5 yards off the LOS from the ILB spot. On the field Hightower plays a lot quicker than some want to admit. And here, I'll show this again...

Dont'a Hightower had the 4th fastest 40 yard dash of all ILB's and he ran as good or better than...

3 Rb's
3 Wr's
4 TE's
7 OLB's
11 DB's

JPN, you are a very knowledgeable poster, however I think you are overlooking the obvious with your desire to have Dontari Poe a Steeler.

"however I think you are overlooking the obvious with your desire to have Dontari Poe a Steeler" That is exactly what you are doing with Hightower.

I didn't nit pick. I gave you every snap...Not his highlights. Everything I said is true. Hightower played at Alabama with alot of talent around him. It is the Mcclain factor all over again. Hightower is a guy in poistion to make splash plays and compile statistics. You under value the guy that makes it all possible. It is obvious you can't see that or know that if you say the vid you posted is filled with inadequacies of Poe. You seem to be ok with what you cook but won't eat it when it is served back.

Again, you living of a 40 time. Why didn't Hightower do all the drills? You know the answer. There is a reason projected players don't do timed drills. Called apples for apples. But he looked very stiff in his position drills. And even Mr. Wexell who you bowed to on Poe said:

His 10 yard split was a 1.65 and Poe was a 1.68, Cox 1.63, Coples 1.63. and Worthy 1.64. That is what Hightower will be asked to do. He moves like a DL from a standstill and he lacks change of direction. You talk about how he gets to the QB? Starightline speed is there. Watch the RB pull away from him on the wheel route after he recognized it. Take his split against the guys you are so proud of he ran faster than and tell me if he still will be wearing his jock. If he had nothing to hide, we would have been talking about his cone times up against the other LBs...But we don't. So he will do it at his proday where he organizes the order of drills to benefit him and run things on honestly shrunken placement of cones. It will be interesting to see if he stands on his combie 40. I bet his agent already answered that.