like I said before if they had to "copy" the Akira, the NX-class isn't a bad compromise but still it's compromise. I wouldn't call it unsuitble, unimaginative sure but you can't blame the designer(s) for that as they basic look was an executive mandate. Also there's only so many configurations you can put the basic starfleet ship pattern and something too far from that like having a ring nacelle was out of question anyway as the main ship from ENT would have look sort of like the ships after it in timeline.

I may be an idiot, but I'm a tolerated idiot
"I think you completely missed the point of sigs. They're supposed to be completely homegrown in the fertile hydroponics lab of your mind, dried in your closet, rolled, and smoked...
Oh wait, that's marijuana..."Einhander Sn0m4n

It's very hard to define what makes Trek-type ships 'beautiful' given that they're generally a collection of one to four separate metal blobs attached by between zero and three metal poles. Some are, some aren't. But there's nothing fundamentally wrong with the NX design, it's not hideous or anything.

Doug Drexler wrote:
But there was more… we had a basic configuration for another ship that was very close to the 1701, although still too futuristic to my mind. Apparently someone walked into Mr. Berman’s office and said, “Cool! It looks just like Kirk’s ship!”, and that was the end of that. That was a real beating. “Use the Akira!” came the order. They really thought no one would notice.

As far as the basic configuration of the Akira, that was a mandate. As a matter of fact, we were told to just plain use the Akira for the NX. How would that have been? Our private art department mandate was to twist it as much as we could to the TOS Enterprise, whether they liked it or not.

^This is from the guy that created the original CGI design of the Akiraprise, he spent four months working his arse off to get it to look like it eventually did, at every step of the way TPTB nixed every alteration or refinement that would have made it look more like a precursor to the TOS Enterprise.

A pox upon Berman & Braga, may they die of gonorrhea.

So I stare wistfully at the Lightning for a couple of minutes. Two missiles, sharply raked razor-thin wings, a huge, pregnant belly full of fuel, and the two screamingly powerful engines that once rammed it from a cold start to a thousand miles per hour in under a minute. Life would be so much easier if our adverseries could be dealt with by supersonic death on wings - but alas, Human resources aren't so easily defeated.

Apparently the Akira was popular with fans or something? You'd have though they'd realised fans that cared enough to become attached a background TNG era design would be the kind to care about design lineage and stuff being right for the time period.

To the brave passengers and crew of the Kobayashi Maru... sucks to be you - Peter David

Darth Nostril wrote:It's the Akira plain and simple, not even a new design.

Actually the NX has little similar with the Akira apart from superficial details, you can thank the design team for that since the orginal directive was to use the Akira as it was in TNG era with all the TNG design elements as for why the Akira it seems at least according to Doung Dexler that B&B thought no-one would notice because it a fan favorite design and had to be told how strict trek fans are about these things.

I may be an idiot, but I'm a tolerated idiot
"I think you completely missed the point of sigs. They're supposed to be completely homegrown in the fertile hydroponics lab of your mind, dried in your closet, rolled, and smoked...
Oh wait, that's marijuana..."Einhander Sn0m4n

Darth Nostril wrote:It's the Akira plain and simple, not even a new design.

Actually the NX has little similar with the Akira apart from superficial details, you can thank the design team for that since the orginal directive was to use the Akira as it was in TNG era with all the TNG design elements as for why the Akira it seems at least according to Doung Dexler that B&B thought no-one would notice because it a fan favorite design and had to be told how strict trek fans are about these things.

Um... Darth Nostril knows all that. He actually quoted what the designer said about it.

To the brave passengers and crew of the Kobayashi Maru... sucks to be you - Peter David

Darth Nostril wrote:It's the Akira plain and simple, not even a new design.

Actually the NX has little similar with the Akira apart from superficial details, you can thank the design team for that since the orginal directive was to use the Akira as it was in TNG era with all the TNG design elements as for why the Akira it seems at least according to Doung Dexler that B&B thought no-one would notice because it a fan favorite design and had to be told how strict trek fans are about these things.

Um... Darth Nostril knows all that. He actually quoted what the designer said about it.

Then he should bloody know the NX is not identical to the Akira similar yes but not identical. In fact one of the problems have with STO NX is that they added the 24th century style escape pods making the NX less unique.

I may be an idiot, but I'm a tolerated idiot
"I think you completely missed the point of sigs. They're supposed to be completely homegrown in the fertile hydroponics lab of your mind, dried in your closet, rolled, and smoked...
Oh wait, that's marijuana..."Einhander Sn0m4n

where's the deflector dish and engineering hull on top the NX then? also why the saucer is round rather then an oval? Why is there no front shuttle hangar on the NX? Do I need to point out even more things different on the designs or did you get my point?

EDIT:It's like saying the Imperial-class and Victory-class stardestroyers are identical, they're similar sure since the VSDs are based on the concept art for the ISDs but they're not identical.

I may be an idiot, but I'm a tolerated idiot
"I think you completely missed the point of sigs. They're supposed to be completely homegrown in the fertile hydroponics lab of your mind, dried in your closet, rolled, and smoked...
Oh wait, that's marijuana..."Einhander Sn0m4n

Oh we got your point, you are a fan of the Akiraprise and will continue to attack anyone who dares to question its magnificence.

Yes Drexler did manage to make some changes and get them past the combined stupidity of Berman & Braga, but it does not change the fact that the NX-01 is nothing more than a restyling of the Akira.
It is not a brand new style of ship that pre-dates the 1701, it's the result of the art department, particularily one guy working late hours seven days a week for four months, trying to twist and mangle an existing design from far in the future of the franchise into something that looked different.
They were only partially successful.

Your SD analogy is rather pathetic, the Imperial class is an evolution of the Victory class. Whereas the NX-01 predates the Akira by several hundred years, it should be a devolution, not a variation on the design.

So I stare wistfully at the Lightning for a couple of minutes. Two missiles, sharply raked razor-thin wings, a huge, pregnant belly full of fuel, and the two screamingly powerful engines that once rammed it from a cold start to a thousand miles per hour in under a minute. Life would be so much easier if our adverseries could be dealt with by supersonic death on wings - but alas, Human resources aren't so easily defeated.

Nope I hate the damn fool thing. Besides the Akira-prise issue, it has absolutely nothing in common with a Connie or any other TOS/TOS movie ship. The NX is more of a prequel ship for TNG as if B&B wanted to forget the TOS and replace it with ENT. Stylistically it has pretty much nothing to do with TOS, which it is closest to in time. Besides the fact that the show was lame and died an early death in utter failure, the ship itself is lame and should have died in failure.

They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong

But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red

Are you really that fanatical that you rant if everyone doesn't hate NX design. Actually dispite what you claim, I voted "it's ok" and did so before even commenting anything. I'd suspect that had season 4 ENT been the average ENT season in terms of quality instead of being way better then average no-one would have any real issues with design but as things are people like you 2 are projecting their hate of the series into the design thus, implying it's essentially 100% idential to the Akira after all that's what "reskin" or calling it "Akira plain and simple" mean.

Does the NX show that it's based on the Akira, obviously you'd have to be blind to not see it. is it an Akira flipped outside down and given TOS nacelles as you imply. No, not even close. I hate repeating myself but the Akira has a rather obvious engineering hull on the underside of the saucer that's nowhere on the NX design neither on the top or the bottom, the size of some components relative to the ship is different as well, where the Akira has front facing door (meant to be a shuttle bay not never shown as such) in the saucer notch, the NX as the main deflector dish there (as the NX design lacks the engineering hull where the Akira main deflector is), NX class in fact lacks all of the shuttlebay doors from the Akira as the NX bay doors are on the underside of the saucer and IIRC there's windows where Akira rear shuttlebay doors are. the Nacelles are totally diffrent designs as the Akira nacelles are somewhere between the Sovereign (which borrows heavily from the Excelsior design wise btw) and Voyager. The Saucer on the NX is clearly round akin to Connie or Miranda, while the Akira is slightly oval more akin of TNG era (Galaxy for example though not as heavily oval) that's a quite of a list of differences for a mere "reskin".

EDIT:that was the point of the VSD/ISD comparison, you'd have to be blind to not see the similarities with those designs, but at same time you'd have to be blind (or just fanatical) to not notice the differences.

oh while we're at this how many canon 2150s era ships we saw before ENT (not designs that fanon generally considers to from the 2150s like daedalus but Starfleet ships actually comfirmed to be from 22nd century) connie is after from the 2260s and there's major difference between 23rd and 24th century starfleet designs so why is it such major deal that there was one between 22nd and 23rd it's not like the NX doesn't stick out like a sore thumb when put next to an actual 24th design (including the previously mentioned Akira)

I may be an idiot, but I'm a tolerated idiot
"I think you completely missed the point of sigs. They're supposed to be completely homegrown in the fertile hydroponics lab of your mind, dried in your closet, rolled, and smoked...
Oh wait, that's marijuana..."Einhander Sn0m4n

I can see why people don't like the design as is, but calling it a reskin is a disservice to the design team as it implies a level of laziness that's is not evident in the design itself if one looks more then 1 sec and goes "it looks sort of like the Akira therefore they must copied it 100%", neither the NX or the Akira aren't exactly the best look Starfleet ships out there but then few if any can beat movie Connie or the Galaxy class for me.

I may be an idiot, but I'm a tolerated idiot
"I think you completely missed the point of sigs. They're supposed to be completely homegrown in the fertile hydroponics lab of your mind, dried in your closet, rolled, and smoked...
Oh wait, that's marijuana..."Einhander Sn0m4n

I can see why people don't like the design as is, but calling it a reskin is a disservice to the design team as it implies a level of laziness that's is not evident in the design itself if one looks more then 1 sec and goes "it looks sort of like the Akira therefore they must copied it 100%", neither the NX or the Akira aren't exactly the best look Starfleet ships out there but then few if any can beat movie Connie or the Galaxy class for me.

Aside from the quote in this thread from a designer saying that's exactly what they did.

No-one's blaming the design team, it was clearly an edict from on high. That doesn't make the design good. Just bad for understandable reasons.

I voted 'meh' for the record and called it 'not bad' above, just not at all suited for it's time period.

To the brave passengers and crew of the Kobayashi Maru... sucks to be you - Peter David

Was there an actual point anywhere in your incoherent ranting?
A few cosmetic changes a brand new ship do not make.
We get it, you like the Akiraprise, just accept that you are in the minority.

Oh, and I have the utmost respect for the design team you twerp, they worked for four months trying to create something that would fit into the existing chronology, only to have Rick Berman's insistence on using the Akira design cripple their efforts.
They worked long and hard but it was for naught, a flipped reskinned Akira was all that they were allowed to do.

That is not a reflection on their skills and dedication, it is instead a damning indictment of the fucking stupidity of the producers.

The same producers who went on to completely fuck up the entire show to the point that it got cancelled.

So I stare wistfully at the Lightning for a couple of minutes. Two missiles, sharply raked razor-thin wings, a huge, pregnant belly full of fuel, and the two screamingly powerful engines that once rammed it from a cold start to a thousand miles per hour in under a minute. Life would be so much easier if our adverseries could be dealt with by supersonic death on wings - but alas, Human resources aren't so easily defeated.

Knife wrote:
The NX is more of a prequel ship for TNG as if B&B wanted to forget the TOS and replace it with ENT. Stylistically it has pretty much nothing to do with TOS, which it is closest to in time.

That's pretty much it, the waste of DNA called Berman had no respect at all for TOS. Which is how we ended up with the Akiraprise, Duchess Archer, zoo in the sickbay and that fucking dog.

So I stare wistfully at the Lightning for a couple of minutes. Two missiles, sharply raked razor-thin wings, a huge, pregnant belly full of fuel, and the two screamingly powerful engines that once rammed it from a cold start to a thousand miles per hour in under a minute. Life would be so much easier if our adverseries could be dealt with by supersonic death on wings - but alas, Human resources aren't so easily defeated.

I put not my cup of tea. I would have liked a Dadelus class ship to be the star, or if they wanted to be iconic, something similar to the Yorktown class from Star Trek Legacy.

It also really bothered me that there was a section of the ship that one couldn't get to unless you took a spacewalk, a transporter, or a shuttle. Im talking about the little area between the warp nacelles. The Oberth and the Akira had the same problem, but they weren't hero ships, so we didn't know what their engineers were doing.

Was there an actual point anywhere in your incoherent ranting?
A few cosmetic changes a brand new ship do not make.
We get it, you like the Akiraprise, just accept that you are in the minority.

Oh, and I have the utmost respect for the design team you twerp, they worked for four months trying to create something that would fit into the existing chronology, only to have Rick Berman's insistence on using the Akira design cripple their efforts.
They worked long and hard but it was for naught, a flipped reskinned Akira was all that they were allowed to do.

That is not a reflection on their skills and dedication, it is instead a damning indictment of the fucking stupidity of the producers.

The same producers who went on to completely fuck up the entire show to the point that it got cancelled.

*SIGH!* I wouldn't mind if you called it lazy redesign or even a lazy retooling as those allow for the changes in the actually CGI model rather then just the skin and are accurate depiction of what happend. A reskin would leave the bridge on the bottom (remember the Akira had bridge in the normal location) and engineering hull on the top, now tell me WHERE IS THAT ENGINEERING HULL ON THE NX?! if it's not there then it's not a reskin as the unlying model was changed not just the skin and I the fact that NX saucer is flipped upside down compared to the Akira, I'm not saying it's not a lazy design you moron I'm saying it's not just a reskin as too much has changed from the Akira to call it a mere reskin but it's clear you utterly incapable of seeing things so I'll forgive you for not notecing the blindingly obviously differences like (and I can't belive I still need to point this out) the total lack of the engineering hull.

As for what fuck the thing between the nacelles is I think wraith is correct in that it orginally was suppose to be part of the warp drive but in season 3 they torp laucher there so who knows and IIRC it was suppose to have a cramped service tunnel leading to there though it could have just been to the nacelles it's been a while since I saw that episode if I saw it at all.

I'd say the fact that we can't say for sure what that thing is speaks volumes about things were run and it's not just disrespect for TOS, B&B disrespect ENT too just look at finale, it doesn't work as a proper end for ENT and it doesn't really fit into TNG either, it's a shame that we those to morons for 3 seasons as the concept of ENT could have worked with better people at the helm but then same can be said of VOY.

Last edited by Lord Revan on 2017-02-02 01:13pm, edited 1 time in total.

I may be an idiot, but I'm a tolerated idiot
"I think you completely missed the point of sigs. They're supposed to be completely homegrown in the fertile hydroponics lab of your mind, dried in your closet, rolled, and smoked...
Oh wait, that's marijuana..."Einhander Sn0m4n

FaxModem1 wrote:I put not my cup of tea. I would have liked a Dadelus class ship to be the star

<nod> From what I remember at the time, I think a large number of fans were expecting something like the Daedalus class. I know I was. It just makes a lot more sense to me as a design that could logically evolve into the Constitution-class ships we're all familiar with.