To those that say RIM is dead or "its too late"

This is what the "i" people tend to forget...

The first Mac took 3 yrs to perfect... (Steve Jobs) ... The Mac debuted in 1984 to rave reviews but disappointing sales... Jobs left Apple and spent the summer of 1985 in a "midlife crisis a few months later he started Pixar Studios. In 1996, Apple Computer, by now struggling, acquired NeXT, returning Jobs to the company he helped to create. And the following year Jobs became Apple's CEO, driving the company to its greatest successes, from the iPod to the iPhone to the iPad. RIM had a crises had delays and now is launching what looks like a game changer (in my humble opinion). Never underestimate the human spirit. I hope the best for RIM, I owe a Bold 9900.

You are missing one key point here - Microsoft bailed Apple out of bankruptcy. RIM is doing this completely on their own and I hope for the sake of the Canadian market that RIM gets the full support it needs to keep going, as more and more Canadian companies are being sold to American or foreign enterprises. First Zellers and just recently the Brick.

New BlackBerry Motto: "I get knocked down but I get up again, cause nothing is going to keep me down!"

You are missing one key point here - Microsoft bailed Apple out of bankruptcy. RIM is doing this completely on their own and I hope for the sake of the Canadian market that RIM gets the full support it needs to keep going, as more and more Canadian companies are being sold to American or foreign enterprises. First Zellers and just recently the Brick.

Microsoft did not "bail Apple out of bankruptcy". They invested (I think) $300 mln, which was maybe just enough to keep the lights on for another six months. It WAS a significant investment, and it came with a renewed commitment by Microsoft to support the Mac (new Office version being the biggest news there).

Microsoft had top keep Apple running to slow down the hounds at their heels...the antitrust people in the USA.

And really, that was Microsoft's ultimate motivation (though Gates has said he generally liked Apple and would have been personally disappointed had it failed). The bottom line was that MS could spend that $300 million on lawyers defending further anti-trust action, or they could actually get some equity for it.

And really, that was Microsoft's ultimate motivation (though Gates has said he generally liked Apple and would have been personally disappointed had it failed). The bottom line was that MS could spend that $300 million on lawyers defending further anti-trust action, or they could actually get some equity for it.

That's not actually what happened. First, the amount was $150 million. Bill Gates did not "invest" $150 in Apple either. He was given preferred stock, which more akin to a loan than real investment. If he was given equity, he would be worth about $25 billion more than he is now. The guy who did invest in Apple then was Carlos Slim, the Mexican billionaire. Gates did agree that MS will continue to develop and support MS Office for Mac. The reason Gates agreed to these terms was not because of fear of anti-trust. The DOJ didn't even sue MS until 1998, quite a bit after the deal between Jobs and Gates was announced. The suit was also unrelated to the core OS, but rather IE and whether IE was a feature or a separate product that was tied-in with Windows, tie-in products being prohibited by the Sherman Anti-Trust Act. The reason Gates agreed to the deal was because Apple had a bunch of lawsuits filed against MS about "look and feel" of Windows, which could have potentially cost MS billions of dollars. The deal was that Apple would drop the lawsuits, in return for the $150 million in preferred stock and MS continued support of Office. More important than the $150 million was the Office portion of the deal. Apple had quite a few other alternatives to get money, even back then, Carlos Slim was one of them.

That's not actually what happened. First, the amount was $150 million. Bill Gates did not "invest" $150 in Apple either. He was given preferred stock, which more akin to a loan than real investment. If he was given equity, he would be worth about $25 billion more than he is now. The guy who did invest in Apple then was Carlos Slim, the Mexican billionaire. Gates did agree that MS will continue to develop and support MS Office for Mac. The reason Gates agreed to these terms was not because of fear of anti-trust. The DOJ didn't even sue MS until 1998, quite a bit after the deal between Jobs and Gates was announced. The suit was also unrelated to the core OS, but rather IE and whether IE was a feature or a separate product that was tied-in with Windows, tie-in products being prohibited by the Sherman Anti-Trust Act. The reason Gates agreed to the deal was because Apple had a bunch of lawsuits filed against MS about "look and feel" of Windows, which could have potentially cost MS billions of dollars. The deal was that Apple would drop the lawsuits, in return for the $150 million in preferred stock and MS continued support of Office. More important than the $150 million was the Office portion of the deal. Apple had quite a few other alternatives to get money, even back then, Carlos Slim was one of them.

I've heard this before but I've always been curious about Apple dropping the suit for a measly $150 mln plus the $150 mln for Office. The potential award from the suit would have been much greater. Were they suing to put pressure on MS to support Office on Mac or did they think that the combination was equivalent in the end?

About the only thing RIM can take out of Apple's turnaround is that yes, it's possible.

There are really very few parallels past that, though. For one thing, RIM is actually in considerably better shape than Apple was in '96, at least financially.

THANK YOU. I saw this last night and almost posted, but hoped this asinine thread would just die. It's such a ridiculous premise to compare Apple to RIM, and I've posted about this before....besides the OP giving a rather questionable recount of history, and throwing out "'i' people" (which may indicate a troll in the first place), I couldn't even begin to delineate the major, let alone minor factors that make the two companies situations different. For equally meaningless statements, one might as well yell "it ain't over till it's over!" or for that matter 'remember the Alamo!" or "I'll be back!"...."he who laughs last...."

BB10 will either take-off or it won't.....this will be based on myriad factors....."human spirit" is not one of them actually....

As to Apple, their Comeback was based on a number of steps, based on a number of factors as well. The UNIX based OS overhaul did help a bit, but one thing the OP was right about, ipod certainly was a major factor. If RIM has a RIMpod coming out, let me know!

I've heard this before but I've always been curious about Apple dropping the suit for a measly $150 mln plus the $150 mln for Office. The potential award from the suit would have been much greater. Were they suing to put pressure on MS to support Office on Mac or did they think that the combination was equivalent in the end?

There was of course, the potential that Apple could lose the suit, so Apple, like MS, was also somewhat motivated to settle. The biggest factor of course, was that Apple was about 90 days from running out of cash, and the lawsuit could have dragged on for years. The $150 million gave them enough time to reinvent themselves. There were potentially other sources for cash, but this was an easy out for them. The Office thing was of much greater significance. MacOS in '96-'97 was in serious trouble from developer stampede to Windows with the success of Win95 and Win97. With MS on board to continue supporting Office, it gave relevance to MacOS. You have to understand, that this was before the Internet explosion hit in the late '90's. The killer app (reason for buying a computer) for most was not the Internet back then, it was Office.

To those that say RIM is dead or "its too late"

RIM has fists of steel! On their own in the center of the earth. Bound down by the never ending incoming waves of bad press and extreme criticism. They will emerge one day, converting to the modern, new body which everyone will love with the heart of what people liked.

Go RIM!

Sent from my BlackBerry 9860 on 7.1.0.714 with Tapatalk and my fingers

This was quoted from an article from CNN. I shared this because no matter how deep in the hole you are, you can always come out and come out on Top. No Richard I am not a troll, I am a 9900 and playbook user (I can't type on the android, it just doesn't work for me, and I just don't understand the apple phone functions, meaning my brain and there OS do not match) . I'm not comparing the companies per se, look at it simpler, I am comparing the delays, the dire financial situation, the "I (in this case We, as Us;because We Love RIM no matter what anyone tells us) won't quit attitude and yes the human spirit which brings about perseverance, resistance and motivation. Take it as you wish argue about timelines about this or that. I'm focusing on the simple fact that RIM was in the hole for quite sometimes and this can be the dawn of a new beginning not only for RIM but for communications technology as a whole.

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