You have it backwards. With the holidays comes more persecution. This is just the way it is...It's like...somehow the holiday season reminds people
that there are religious folks out there that need to be persecuted because they have somehow repressed scientific advancement or something of that
nature....

Hammurabi hasn't been around for a long time now...but an eye for an eye is still as much followed today as it was when Sumerians were runnin the
show....

Copernicus - canon in the catholic church, 1947
Francis Bacon - "It is true, that a little philosophy inclineth man’s mind to atheism, but depth in philosophy bringeth men's minds about to
religion; for while the mind of man looketh upon second causes scattered, it may sometimes rest in them, and go no further; but when it beholdeth the
chain of them confederate, and linked together, it must needs fly to Providence and Deity."
Kepler - Lutheran
Galileo - while pressured by the RCC because of an offense made to the Pope, Galileo still presumed that the Bible cannot err...
Descartes - Roman Catholic
Newton - "The most beautiful system of the sun, planets, and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion on an intelligent and powerful
Being."
Boyle - Protestant
Faraday - Sandemanian
Mendel - monk and eventually Abbot
Kelvin - (as well as physicists Stokes and Maxwell) Christian

Religion isnt the reason for all wars, nor is it the reason for starvation, suffering and killing. Its us humans who deserve the blame for all these
things. If you look back at the recent wars that have happened over the last 10 years, you will notice that it was mainly over power, control and
greed. as for the poverty issue, today you see those millionares spend thier wealth on useless worldly gains, rather than unite and try to help those
in need. there are those who spend in the millions on projects, experiments, etc and some fail resulting with all that money gone to waste....while it
couldve gone to the poor instead....what a great shame. But instead, you see the average wealthy person helping out the poor and needy, more than the
very wealthy person...what a time we live in..

This is my belief..From the beginning of our creation, there was only one religion that existed, and that was, submission and surrendering to the will
of our creator. This was the beleif system of all the prophets from the first to the last.
The essence of our creation is to acknowledge the one who created us and submit to his will. But he has also given us the great responsibility of
making our own choices and choosing our own paths. But it was thanks to us humans who chose to oppsose and infiltrate that simple system of belief and
corrupted the true message by ''divide and conquer''

We didnt come to this life by our will, nor will we die by our will (except those who choose suicide, or get killed by accidents or murder etc)
Life is short people. everything is so temporary, wether happiness or sadness. We spend so much time on trying to achieve our dreams through material
gains, and some of us die before that even happens...which just proves that you can never be completely happy or satisfied in this life.

The existance of our creator is all around us. The signs are everywhere.
Look at our universe, our galaxy and solar system which is amongst billions of other galaxies like it. did we humans create these? Who is the one that
controls the day and night, the sun and the moon? do we and can we control or create time?
who has given us eyes to see with, ears to hear with, brains to think with, various types of organs to help us maintain our bodies, arms and legs to
do all types of actions? and how much would you pay to have them back If you lost any of them? who is the one who gave you all these countless
blessings for free? did we create ourselves? did we create the earth? how can you say there is no creator? no supreme power? think about it

Without religion, you will have no purpose to live for. And your purpose will be just have fun, enjoy ur time, be free, have no obligations or
restrictions, do sinfull acts without worries, and expect to have a good ending...if that was the purpose of our lives then that would mean god
created us for a foolish purpose. The real purpose of our lives is to acknowedge our creator, to submit to him willingly, to conform to his laws and
regulations, And worship him alone without any partners.

The fun, free time, happiness still exists as long as you keep to the laws of the creator.

Without religion, there would be world wide corruption on a huge scale, drugs, rape, adultery, incest, homosexuality, gangs and violence etc

Yes, I totally agree with everyone that these extremists from all religious groups should be dealt with, because I dont support them, and wish the
same thing everyone else does. They are the ones that give thier religion a bad name.

In the end, everyone is entitled to their own ways and beliefs. and they are also responsible for whatever path they choose to take in this life.
There is no compulsion in religion. NO ONE can force anything on anyone else!

Besides, we got greater things to worry about than religion.
Like, the Illuminati, the ellites, and the freemasons who are plotting the NWO which is well on its way! oh, and also a great UFO attack too!

I would disagree. I am not a church going member but I have seen churches feed the homeless and help the sick. I have witnessed religion bring peace
to a man on his death bed that no amount of nature could ever bring him. The priceless works of art that have been produced. All these things can be
contributed to religion.

Does religion control people? Sure does. Is that necessarily a bad thing? No. See you have all made comments similar to "If you knew the truth you'd
go out and riot!" That sentence alone proves my point.

Sometimes, people need control. Otherwise we'd all be out butt naked, raping and killing a million times more then what we do all ready. Is there
war? Yes. Rape? Yes. Death and Sickness plus starvation!? Yes. Would it be far worse without religion????

Yes.

Religion is not perfect by a long shot but it serves it's purpose. Sure there are some undesirable consequences but there is also undesirable
consequences for not having religion in the world.

Some people just need to believe in something in order to make sense of it all. Some can look at a spread sheet and read it others can't pass math
101. Some people can look at nature and get everything they need....others can not.

Religion is just one more way for the human mind to work. I say if you have faith and you are a religions person great good for you because there are
plenty of us including myself who don't have it figured out. I can look at nature and there are still questions I need answered. I look at religion
and the same thing applies. I'm glad there are those out there that have an understanding of their world. As for mine I'm still exploring. I am a
man of faith and do believe there is something much bigger then us all.

There's no one that is foolish enough to claim they have it figured out Hagbard. Not even with the age of the Universe on my side could I hope to
have this masterpiece figured out.....years and years of seeking do not necessarily equate to years and years of finding....

Great thread OP.. I also agree that its been a topic raised here a number of times because its simply not 'dealt' with.. or people just get angry
and start fighting one another about beliefs and the thread dies or is taken over by that aggression.. you are entirely right that religion as a
whole, all sects of religion is a tool for control.. to tell people what to do, what not to do, to feel ashamed for natural instinct or human thoughts
and actions.. it brings nothing positive to our society, and certainly not our children who grow up as ignorant bigots more often than not when
brought up brain washed by these cults under cover as religion..until they, hopefully, become aware and old enough to study and find out hat they
believe for themselves. Apologies i am going off sideways lol.. just wanted to say though that i do agree, religion of all kinds should be destroyed
along with their man written holy books..
I know posting videos isnt allowed here right? but if anyone is inclined to, it may not be your kind of music but there is a song by a group called
Corporate Avenger, song title 'The Bible is Bullsh--' spelled out fully on youtube.. they make some excellent valid points.

Originally posted by libertytoall
It actually was and for good reason. You don't have to be an evil force for taking control of the oil fields. Any good and decent country would
protect the livelihood of Iraq as well as resources millions of people depend on. If they hadn't taken control of oil fields, airports,
communications, etc, they run the risk of many lives being affected negatively.

In the first Gulf War Saddam's oil fields burned throwing up large amounts of toxic pollution, crippling the economy, and leaving vast fuel shortages
to the public. Why would any rational human being want to allow that to happen again?

Call it what you will, it was still the right thing to do.

[edit on 21-12-2009 by libertytoall]

even the right thing to do can be an act of evil intent when done so with the wrong intentions...sure taking the oil fields would prevent the same
thing happening again that happened in the first gulf war...but the US had every intention of taking posession of that oil for themselves but it gets
glossed over with the story of "well we are protecting their resources and preventing the first disaster from happenin all over again.

you want I agree religion is a very powerful tool to control people. it can be use for so-called terrorist attack(which are all planed by the same
people who control the goverment and start war to make money and have all the power over the population's of the world) and war. religion does not
work because physics work religion has no physical evidence. meta-terrestrial(including god) can not exist because of he need to be matter or
energy.

Seriously, all I can really say on the matter is down with religion and down with anti-religion. This is just one argument that needs to
cease. Will it? No. Is my opinion worth anything? No. Am I thirsty? Yeah.

Honestly you can't argue about the science vs religion. Two different things. What many don't seem to understand is that now our civilization are
a bunch of home grown retards playing video games, watching reality television and worshiping the latest Iphone all while they are bowing towards the
great MP3 player. Lets be honest. Maybe it isn't a bad idea that science hasn't been pushed to the extreme. Take a look at the episode where no
religion existed in south park. Is that something you want?

Yes because we can adequately foresee how our society would be with the mind blowing experience of an episode of South Park right? In all honesty
it'd be better to worship a device that you can actually see, touch, hear, and program to help you complete your tasks, rather than an invisible
being in the sky somewhere promising you eternal bliss if you follow his will.

PS: I've played video games since I can remember, are you saying that I'm retarded?

I can agree with that, if everybody lived exactly as "Jesus" did, the world would be better.

The problem is, minimal amounts of Christians are actually practicing what they preach. The same can be said for many fictional characters in the
world. If everybody lived like Popeye the Sailor Man the world would be great!

Honestly, I love a good religion debate, but it is like beating a dead horse! I see so many thought provoking threads that only get 1 to 25 replies,
yet something like this gets soooo much attention, with no intellectual gain and only emotional drain.

The fact is, we will always have religion and yes it has been a cause of much grief and death, but so have so many other things. I see a lot of happy
people with their respective religion, I also see happy people (like myself) without it. But there is always the flipside.

For many many people, they feel they need religion, many feel a need for something else. It is as I said in an earlier post, it is NOT about religion,
but ego.

Yes because we can adequately foresee how our society would be with the mind blowing experience of an episode of South Park right? In all honesty
it'd be better to worship a device that you can actually see, touch, hear, and program to help you complete your tasks, rather than an invisible
being in the sky somewhere promising you eternal bliss if you follow his will.

PS: I've played video games since I can remember, are you saying that I'm retarded?

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