Are you envisioning some sort of beacon thingie, shining, glowing, radiating?

When I read the word "luminous" I think of something glowing, like a light bulb or the moon. I don't know how to relate that to experience, which is why I did some amateur sleuthing into the Pali. The root "bhās" from what I can tell, seems to have something to do with light or the qualities of light. Looking at it that way, the quality of "clarity" makes more sense to me.

Side anecdote: I attended a Zen center and the chant book opened with "You are the light." I was resistant to this from the very first. 50% because it seemed like some kind of Self-view, and 50% because I was like... "WHAT light??" which is exactly what I asked the priest in an interview. He said it was meant as a metaphor. I thought to myself, well that's all fine and good, but I still don't have a clue what "light" it is I'm supposed to be identifying with this metaphor...

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

Are you envisioning some sort of beacon thingie, shining, glowing, radiating?

When I read the word "luminous" I think of something glowing, like a light bulb or the moon. I don't know how to relate that to experience, which is why I did some amateur sleuthing into the Pali. The root "bhās" from what I can tell, seems to have something to do with light or the qualities of light. Looking at it that way, the quality of "clarity" makes more sense to me.

Of course, "luminuos" is metaphorical speech, as is "clarity."

I am not claiming anything extraordinary here. During a three month vipassana retreat one can get very quiet, very concentrated and very mindful. There are times that there is the clear experience of the instant of the arising of awareness, just that instant before all the other khandha stuff arises, colors and "drives" - as it were - the direction of one's awareness. For me, "claritry" best captures that aspect of the arising of the mind (citta) moment, but one could use the word "luminuous" or some such word, keeping in mind, it is just descriptive metaphor. What else would it be? There is no need to try to turn the mind into some sort of thing of "purity."

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.People live in one another’s shelter.

I tend to expect the word luminous to be used to refer to a clarity which is discernible as-is; discerning clarity generally requires some other illumination. Luminous things, however, don't require another light source, they are considered to provide sufficient inherent illumination for discerning any other (literally visual) qualities.

So the mind is called luminous as a metaphor because it can be seen calmly and clearly apart from the otherwise emitted thoughts and feelings and perceptions with which it is usually identified. I expect that the third tetrad of anapanasati is an exploration of this.

"And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

"And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]

"Luminous, monks, is the mind. And it is freed from incoming defilements. The well-instructed disciple of the noble ones discerns that as it actually is present, which is why I tell you that — for the well-instructed disciple of the noble ones — there is development of the mind." {I,vi,2}

"Luminous, monks, is the mind. And it is freed from incoming defilements. The well-instructed disciple of the noble ones discerns that as it actually is present, which is why I tell you that — for the well-instructed disciple of the noble ones — there is development of the mind." {I,vi,2}

Especially the words "discerns that as it actually is present"?

"When for you there will be only the seen in the seen, only the heard in theheard, only the sensed in the sensed, only the cognized in the cognized,then, Bahiya, there is no you in terms of that. When there is no you in termsof that, there is no you there. When there is no you there, you are neitherhere nor yonder nor between the two. This, just this, is the end of suffering." -- Ud I 10

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.People live in one another’s shelter.

“The mind is something more radiant than anything elsecan be, but because counterfeits – passing defilements – comeand obscure it, it loses its radiance, like the sun when obscuredby clouds. Don’t go thinking that the sun goes after the clouds.Instead, the clouds come drifting along and obscure the sun.“So meditators, when they know in this manner, should do awaywith these counterfeits by analyzing them shrewdly... When theydevelop the mind to the stage of the primal mind, this will meanthat all counterfeits are destroyed, or rather, counterfeit thingswon’t be able to reach into the primal mind, because the bridgemaking the connection will have been destroyed. Even thoughthe mind may then still have to come into contact with thepreoccupations of the world, its contact will be like that of abead of water rolling over a lotus leaf.”

~ Ven. Ajahn Mun, ‘A Heart Released,’ p 23

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

"Luminous, monks, is the mind. And it is freed from incoming defilements. The well-instructed disciple of the noble ones discerns that as it actually is present, which is why I tell you that — for the well-instructed disciple of the noble ones — there is development of the mind." {I,vi,2}

Especially the words "discerns that as it actually is present"?

I would be very interested in seeing the pali for the words you highlighted above. To me, it appears as though the Buddha is talking about the development of special wisdom, vipassana, which is often defined as 'seeing things as they really are' or variations of that. Vipassana is developed, as you know, by observing one or more of the three characteristics of existence, anicca, dukkha and anatta. So while the mind is described as luminous, it should not be taken as unconditioned (asankhata).Furthermore,I think the passage from the Udana is problematic for many people as it appears to imply a surrogate for a self.kind regards

Ben

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.” - Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:in mountain clefts and chasms,loud gush the streamlets,but great rivers flow silently.- Sutta Nipata 3.725

“The mind is something more radiant than anything elsecan be, but because counterfeits – passing defilements – comeand obscure it, it loses its radiance, like the sun when obscuredby clouds. Don’t go thinking that the sun goes after the clouds.Instead, the clouds come drifting along and obscure the sun.“So meditators, when they know in this manner, should do awaywith these counterfeits by analyzing them shrewdly... When theydevelop the mind to the stage of the primal mind, this will meanthat all counterfeits are destroyed, or rather, counterfeit thingswon’t be able to reach into the primal mind, because the bridgemaking the connection will have been destroyed. Even thoughthe mind may then still have to come into contact with thepreoccupations of the world, its contact will be like that of abead of water rolling over a lotus leaf.”

~ Ven. Ajahn Mun, ‘A Heart Released,’ p 23

"Primal mind?" Whatever could that be? Also, keep in mind, that the mind is not a thing, but an interdependent process.

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.People live in one another’s shelter.

"Luminous, monks, is the mind. And it is freed from incoming defilements. The well-instructed disciple of the noble ones discerns that as it actually is present, which is why I tell you that — for the well-instructed disciple of the noble ones — there is development of the mind." {I,vi,2}

I would be very interested in seeing the pali for the words you highlighted above.