Alright I want to see some factual statistics. I've given up asking you for some form of proof that there was TDK 2.0 claims. You haven't got any. So lets try another one. Show me some factual proof that only a few disliked TDKR.

Then you can say "Of course only a few didn't enjoy it" as though you're stating a well known fact.

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That few counts as fanboys that didn't want a retired Batman from the beginning, because for the most of it, people did enjoy TDKR. The general audience surely enjoyed the film greatly and that's why it's only a polarizing film from CB fans.

The general audience enjoyed Bay's Transformers, too. You're going to have to do better than using that as an excuse. Audiences enjoyed lots of flawed movies. Are you going to try and tell me that movies like Transformers doesn't have a lot of detractors, too?

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And that few wanted a TDK 2.0

There's that hearsay again.

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By the way, I will continue to say this even how much you'd like to disown my opinion, lol.

More fool you. Why you would want to stand by an opinion about other people and their verbal claims that you can't back up is beyond me.

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No, that's the line you're spinning because you seem to enjoy twisting words around.

Correct me where I'm wrong then.

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Yes I do believe it. And it doesn't really bother me if one poster doesn't agree, because there has been some already that HAS agreed

And even more have disagreed.

So we win then since you're all about popularity numbers rather then facts.

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You trying to compare posters listing complaints of the film to Nolan having no heart in TDKR when the two do not go hand in hand. If Nolan dealt with concepts you do not enjoy does not mean Nolan had no heart when working with the film.

Oh my god, how can someone be so blind? Posters listing complaints is in reference to the ones who said they THINK his heart was not in the movie based on how flawed it was, and a step down from the previous movies. They are not saying it's a concrete fact. They are saying it as an opinion.

Why oh why do you struggle to understand such a simple concept?

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And so have I. An opinionated, not factual way. But, read above reply.

No, you haven't. You have been saying people wanted a TDK 2.0. The only way you could know something like that is if they said so. So if they did lets see some examples.

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Of course you can't, lol.

No, nobody can. Spider-Man 2 did not polarize fans and was never accused of being a half hearted attempt by Raimi.

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I bet you hate the idea that both are two of only four CBMs to be acknowledged by AFI, huh?

Why would I hate that? The AFI acknowledges movies like The Hangover, too. Your problem is you can't defend this movie with a competent argument so you turn around and say "Nyah nyah nyah more people agree with me than you. The AFI liked it so there".

It's pathetic.

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Or that the audience rating on Rotten Tomatoes is higher with TDKR, lol.

Here's another example. Trying to quote more numbers. The audience rating on RT for Transformers is only 3% less than TDKR and 1% less than Batman Begins. I guess that means it's almost as good as those two since the audience enjoyed it almost as much. Then there's The Avengers which has a higher audience and critic rating than TDKR so it must be better than it right?

Did I state such that you said it was based on fact, no I did not. Only once again using sarcasm that you continue to call out some posters' believes on opinion and yet you continuously claim what I am trying to say is fact when that is just...well, wrong.

I have no idea what you just said there. You said "Ah finally you say that is an opinion as well" as though I have been denying it to this point.

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Hey, I agree. As most of the posters who claim Nolan had no heart...they have nothing to back it up except for storylines and et cetera they just don't agree about.

Exactly. But at least they are basing their OPINIONS on the quality of his work instead of nothing at all.

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Originally Posted by Kane52630

I feel like there should be a 3 way battle royale thread between the BB (me and kvz), TDK (Joker and Shape), and TDKR (Anno and shauner).

Flattered Kane. Though for team TDKR I suggest Batlobster. He is the most competent debater when it comes to that movie.

__________________
"Sometimes I remember it one way. Sometimes another. If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!"

I usually can't keep up and sit out most discussions about TDKR as well. It's exhausting just reading along. :P

__________________Supermanwith Batman - Whatever It Is... - Countdown until midnight release on March 25, 2016 - updated!
A hero can be anyone. Even a man doing something as simple and reassuring as putting a coataround a young boy's shoulders to let him know the world hadn't ended.

TDK and BB will always be tied for best Batman film, for me. I say this as films with Batman in them not films that adhere strictly to Batman gospel. For that we can jump to MotP (which I think is good but really a bit over lauded sometimes).

In terms of just being films and the accomplishments they've made they really are awe-inspiring for any filmmaker. Put aside Batman's fledgling credibility pre-BB, BB is still a great, amazing film. It took Batman and presented him a light many people hadn't seen before. Some will say it just adheres to the comics but I still think it's unique from the comics in a lot of ways. From the non-linear structuring of Bruce past, which could have been completely confusing if handled the wrong way, to the build up to establishing points of familiarity in the Batman lore, Batman Begins truly is one of Nolan's best works from all standpoints. Even his shortcomings are marginalized in his inability to shoot fight sequences with the quick choppy editing. Some didn't like it but it's great when a filmmaker can tie editing like that into the aesthetic of the film. That not seeing Batman fight was all about the intimidation he possessed during the film. Not to mention Ra's al Ghul, Gordon and Crane.

If I had to pick a singular moment from that film it would probably be the scene where Joe Chill is killed. It's a small moment I know but I always like the way it rolls in and out the story providing the catalyst for young Bruce and it also perfectly shapes up how Gotham truly is at the time. I only wish Rises would have pushed the similarity of Bruce to Joe Chill in Talia's eyes. Bruce and Talia both orphans looking to avenge their parent(s) death. Talia is a mirror image of Bruce in that moment and a reminder of what he could have become if he didn't have people like Rachel and Alfred to anchor him.

...and then there's TDK.

It's no surprise I love TDK, it's one of the fews movies I consider perfect despite it's flaws. Yes there are some choreography blemishes here and there (I'm looking at you Hong Kong) but the film seems to make an error then make up for that error in a grand way the next moment. I did like the new Gotham, I liked that it was average American big city. I liked the politics of things down to the mob. I liked the complexity of characters like Maroni, who is a bad guy but NOT bad like the Joker and not willing to be bad like the Joker. I like the team assembling to fight crime in Batman, Harvey and Gordon and I love the Joker.

I mean, when I first saw TDK Joker's first, post-prologue, scene with the mob was SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO satisfying, I felt like people could have gotten up and left then and been totally happy. I saw TDK about 30 times in the theaters and only after three weeks of going did people stop clapping at the end of that scene. There was an electricity in the theater that opening night that is something I've never felt before and when the titles came up I and everyone else there felt as if we just embarked on some amazing journey. I'll never forget that feeling and for that Nolan will always have my respect.

The interrogation scene. I mean...you've seen it, you know what I'm talking about.

I don't think MoTP strictly adheres to Batman "gospel" anymore than Nolan's films actually. They both create love interests for Bruce, only MoTP depicts it in a way that Bruce was ready to give up everything and choose love over his crusade in the first place. That's a hugely unique wrinkle to the mythos.

They've lost a lot of their original innocence, and they can't get that back. And, they're stuck, it seems, in this kind of depressive ghetto of grimness and psychosis. I'm not too proud of being the author of that regrettable trend.

What I mean is that he came so close to not even being Batman in the first place. The "life that could have been" angle that was presented.

I love MoTP to be clear, I prefer when adaptations can add things to the mythos.

Yeah but what everyone is saying is that that particular idea isn't new to the mythos. Not that MotP is unoriginal but just you're incorrect in the idea that Bruce leaving Batman for a woman is something that hadn't happened in the mythos before.

Yeah but what everyone is saying is that that particular idea isn't new to the mythos. Not that MotP is unoriginal but just you're incorrect in the idea that Bruce leaving Batman for a woman is something that hadn't happened in the mythos before.

It wasn't the quitting for a woman part I meant to cite as different, it's the idea that he came so close to never even donning a Bat-suit. To me there's a difference, because it puts an even more tragic overtone to him being "imprisoned" as Batman. And I love that.

To be fair, both MoTP and BB touched aspects of Bruce's origin story without necessarily "contradicting" the lore, because the established lore left many gaps in that section of Bruce's life. It's more like filling in bits of story that we never got to see before. Similar to what Scott Snyder is hyping his upcoming Zero Year run to be all about.

^ I almost didn't recognize him. Did Loeb even smile once in BB or TDK?

__________________Supermanwith Batman - Whatever It Is... - Countdown until midnight release on March 25, 2016 - updated!
A hero can be anyone. Even a man doing something as simple and reassuring as putting a coataround a young boy's shoulders to let him know the world hadn't ended.