7M if he's the best PG available to the Pacers. We still need an upgrade.

croz24

06-29-2012, 11:34 PM

$4 or $5 million. Hill isn't a starting caliber PG in this league and I sure as hell wouldn't want to be paying a backup combo guard with questionable decision making and lazy defense $7 million per season. There's likely to be better and possibly cheaper options available.

BlueNGold

06-29-2012, 11:39 PM

$4 or $5 million. Hill isn't a starting caliber PG in this league and I sure as hell wouldn't want to be paying a backup combo guard $7 million per season.

Then you don't want him. He will be paid 6 by someone. The alternative is therefore DC and AJ Price next year. Now...if we can improve the position, I can sign onto that.

BornReady

06-29-2012, 11:41 PM

7M if he's the best PG available to the Pacers. We still need an upgrade.

Agreed. Looks like most of us are in the same range...question is whether we can get a better PG for that amount? I get the feeling that won't happen. To be fair I'm not too familiar with Dragic's game aside from highlight reels, and I'm not completely sure Dragic is better. I like Hill a lot tbh, but the inability to get the ball to the bigmen during the playoffs was a real downer.

Bball

06-29-2012, 11:45 PM

Depends on who is writing the contract... With DW writing it I could see 9mil +

and Hibbert signed to the max.... whatever that is now.

Those aren't my numbers, they are the type of numbers I'd expect DW to offer/agree to.

JB24

06-29-2012, 11:48 PM

6 mil, which is basically MLE money. I'd be surprised if anyone offered him more than that.

CableKC

06-30-2012, 12:27 AM

$6.8345M
$6,834,500.01

Is the Price Right? ;)

HC

06-30-2012, 12:45 AM

I like 6.5, but he is probably gonna get 7.

PR07

06-30-2012, 12:46 AM

7.25 million, but I'd settle for less :dance:

3 8 thee great t h

06-30-2012, 01:23 AM

Mle to 6 mil and tbh I think that's pushing it he's not Manu or James harden.....please

I bet you also forgot to have your pet spayed or neutered, too. For shame, sir. For shame.

Justin Tyme

06-30-2012, 07:42 AM

5-5.5 mil AND no more!

After seeing what some posters are willing to pay, it's classic overvaluing Hill, b/c he's a Pacer. If some other team wants to pay more, let him walk with good wishes. He's a combo guard that is a bench player for other teams. Other than the Pacers where is he going to find another team where he can start?

Here are some players for comparison.

Lowry 5.7 mil... Hill isn't as good as Lowry

Jack 5.4 mil... combo guard like Hill

Ridnour 4 mil... combo guard

Lou Williams 5.3 mil... combo guard

Chalmers 4 mil

Sessions 4.5 mil

Conley 6.6 mil... Hill not as good

Shade

06-30-2012, 08:13 AM

It kind of depends on who else is available (i.e. I would sign Nash for $10 mil or take Gordon in a S&T over re-signing Hill). But a max of $7.5/year feels right.

docpaul

06-30-2012, 08:30 AM

MLE. Looking at all of his skills accumulatively, you basically have a Jarrett Jack level of player, with different strengths and weaknesses. You know what the FO did that time, but the circumstances are a bit different: he's a local boy, we have more $, etc.

I hope we don't go over 6.5.

OlBlu

06-30-2012, 08:58 AM

MLE. Looking at all of his skills accumulatively, you basically have a Jarrett Jack level of player, with different strengths and weaknesses. You know what the FO did that time, but the circumstances are a bit different: he's a local boy, we have more $, etc.

I hope we don't go over 6.5.

Hill is miles better than Jack.......:cool:

OlBlu

06-30-2012, 09:01 AM

5-5.5 mil AND no more!

After seeing what some posters are willing to pay, it's classic overvaluing Hill, b/c he's a Pacer. If some other team wants to pay more, let him walk with good wishes. He's a combo guard that is a bench player for other teams. Other than the Pacers where is he going to find another team where he can start?

Here are some players for comparison.

Lowry 5.7 mil... Hill isn't as good as Lowry

Jack 5.4 mil... combo guard like Hill

Ridnour 4 mil... combo guard

Lou Williams 5.3 mil... combo guard

Chalmers 4 mil

Sessions 4.5 mil

Conley 6.6 mil... Hill not as good

You listing those players make me believe Hill is worth much more. Hill is better than Conley. There is more than one part of Hill's game. He is much better than all of the rest but Lowry......:cool: If you let him walk, who are you going to sign. You will over pay for a lesser player......

Ace E.Anderson

06-30-2012, 09:49 AM

5-5.5 mil AND no more!

After seeing what some posters are willing to pay, it's classic overvaluing Hill, b/c he's a Pacer. If some other team wants to pay more, let him walk with good wishes. He's a combo guard that is a bench player for other teams. Other than the Pacers where is he going to find another team where he can start?

Here are some players for comparison.

Lowry 5.7 mil... Hill isn't as good as Lowry

Jack 5.4 mil... combo guard like Hill

Ridnour 4 mil... combo guard

Lou Williams 5.3 mil... combo guard

Chalmers 4 mil

Sessions 4.5 mil

Conley 6.6 mil... Hill not as good

I think Hill is better than all of those players with the exception of Lowry. It just depends what you value in your PG/combo guard. People forget how much better of a record the team had with Hill in the lineup as opposed to when he was injured. Hill's presence, though inconsistent, was a big part of our success last year.

Do I overpay for him? No I do not. But he's def better than most of those guys listed above

Sparhawk

06-30-2012, 09:56 AM

I'd honestly wait on Hill and see what kind of offers he's getting. I'd offer a qualifying offer of $6M and see if a team is willing to best that. I have a feeling that not many teams are looking at Hill.

JB24

06-30-2012, 10:08 AM

Conley is a better player than Hill and personally, i'd put him on par with JJ.

OlBlu

06-30-2012, 10:11 AM

Conley is a better player than Hill and personally, i'd put him on par with JJ.

I don't think you will find that an opinion that many share. I think Hill is a much better player than Conley because he can do more, is a better defender and can play the 2.......:cool:

JB24

06-30-2012, 10:19 AM

Conley actually knows how to run a team's offense, which is... you know... what a point guard is supposed to do.

Hill's defense is nice, but we all saw how stagnant the offense sometimes got with Hill running the team.

3rdStrike

06-30-2012, 10:25 AM

Hill is nowhere near Conley's level, be serious. Next I'm going to read that Hibbert is better than Bynum and Hansbrough better than Bosh.

ECKrueger

06-30-2012, 10:35 AM

Conley is a better PG than Hill, but I think the argument could be made that Hill is a better player than Conley, with the ability to play both guard spots.

Not making the argument necessarily, but I think it could be made. I don't watch Memphis enough.

speakout4

06-30-2012, 10:44 AM

Depends on who is writing the contract... With DW writing it I could see 9mil +

and Hibbert signed to the max.... whatever that is now.

Those aren't my numbers, they are the type of numbers I'd expect DW to offer/agree to.
You're dead on. DW always overpaid and limited the team's options. That's why we lost Brad Miller.

Really?

06-30-2012, 10:56 AM

He has not had any type of offseason working as the PG of this team, he did not do a horrible job, he was our most efficient scorer last year, and often we really have not used our PG as a real PG anyways. It is hard to try to judge a person on something they really have not been asked to do.

I think he is worth atleast 6.8 and will probably get more.

And just for comparison sake, Rodney Stuckey plays a similar role at times and is making 8.5, also Conley is not just making 6.5 it is more like 7.9 million the deal is just structured as one that increases over the years and eventually gets up to 9.7 million.

Justin Tyme

06-30-2012, 10:58 AM

I think Hill is better than all of those players with the exception of Lowry. It just depends what you value in your PG/combo guard. People forget how much better of a record the team had with Hill in the lineup as opposed to when he was injured. Hill's presence, though inconsistent, was a big part of our success last year.

Do I overpay for him? No I do not. But he's def better than most of those guys listed above

The point wasn't whether others are better than Hill, BUT what others were making compared to ridiculously overpaying Hill. Most overpaid players get overpaid by their own teams. Nelson just opted out of his 8.5 mil contract with the Magic. Otis Smith did what so many GM do by overpaying to keep their own player. This is EXACTLY what I don't want to see the Walsh do with Hill. He overpaid to keep Tinsley, so don't duplicate the same mistake again, especially when Hill isn't even a true PG. I don't want to see Hill get overpaid just b/c he's supposedly the best PG on the roster. If so, what's that saying much about the quality of the Pacers PG?

Again, Hill is a bench combo guard who is playing starting PG, b/c the Pacers don't have a better PG. Why overpay for mediocrity at best? Trade for Lowry who is paid a reasonable salary, or sign someone like Felton at a reasonable salary.

If you pay 7-8 mil to re-sign Hill, that becomes added cost on top of everthing else that was involved in the trade for Hill. While Leonard is on his rookie contract, the cost of keeping Hill skyrockets the expense of having done the trade for the length of Leonard's contract. Hill was traded for as a bench player for the 2nd unit when he was on a rookie contract. Now, the cost of HIll is greatly increasing with a new contact less than a year later. From a business standpoint, that trade moneywise just doesn't look that good now. If Hill gets 7 mil next season and Leonard's salary is 1.8 mil, that trade just cost Herb over 5 mil each year of Leonard's contract. By not having traded the pick, the Pacers would have had millions more in cap space to apply towards a "true PG" that fits the Pacers needs. JMOAA

Ace E.Anderson

06-30-2012, 10:59 AM

Hill is nowhere near Conley's level, be serious. Next I'm going to read that Hibbert is better than Bynum and Hansbrough better than Bosh.

You make it sound like Conley is an all star level PG or something

Really?

06-30-2012, 11:03 AM

He has not had any type of offseason working as the PG of this team, he did not do a horrible job, he was our most efficient scorer last year, and often we really have not used our PG as a real PG anyways. It is hard to try to judge a person on something they really have not been asked to do.

I think he is worth atleast 6.8 and will probably get more.

And just for comparison sake, Rodney Stuckey plays a similar role at times and is making 8.5, also Conley is not just making 6.5 it is more like 7.9 million the deal is just structured as one that increases over the years and eventually gets up to 9.7 million.

Also you need to think about the time in which thee people got these contracts, when Lowry signed his deal he was coming off a year where he was playing about 21 min per game, with 7.6 points, and like 3 assist per game.

Also consider that Lou Williams just opted out of a contract that would pay him 6.39 million because he feels he can get more than that in free agency.

Really?

06-30-2012, 11:05 AM

The point wasn't whether others are better than Hill, BUT what others were making compared to ridiculously overpaying Hill. Most overpaid players get overpaid by their own teams. Nelson just opted out of his 8.5 mil contract with the Magic. Otis Smith did what so many GM do by overpaying to keep their own player. This is EXACTLY what I don't want to see the Walsh do with Hill. He overpaid to keep Tinsley, so don't duplicate the same mistake again, especially when Hill isn't even a true PG. I don't want to see Hill get overpaid just b/c he's supposedly the best PG on the roster. If so, what's that saying much about the quality of the Pacers PG?

Again, Hill is a bench combo guard who is playing starting PG, b/c the Pacers don't have a better PG. Why overpay for mediocrity at best? Trade for Lowry who is paid a reasonable salary, or sign someone like Felton at a reasonable salary.

If you pay 7-8 mil to re-sign Hill, that becomes added cost on top of everthing else that was involved in the trade for Hill. While Leonard is on his rookie contract, the cost of keeping Hill skyrockets the expense of having done the trade for the length of Leonard's contract. Hill was traded for as a bench player for the 2nd unit when he was on a rookie contract. Now, the cost of HIll is greatly increasing with a new contact less than a year later. From a business standpoint, that trade moneywise just doesn't look that good now. If Hill gets 7 mil next season and Leonard's salary is 1.8 mil, that trade just cost Herb over 5 mil each year of Leonard's contract. By not having traded the pick, the Pacers would have had millions more in cap space to apply towards a "true PG" that fits the Pacers needs. JMOAA

Hope you saw where I said that Conley is actually making 7.9 per year over the length of his contract.

Il Ragionier Ugo Fantozzi

06-30-2012, 11:06 AM

6.

3rdStrike

06-30-2012, 11:10 AM

You make it sound like Conley is an all star level PG or something

No, I make it sound like Hill is a quality backup guard who lacks above average passing or playmaking (aka point guard) skills, who we had starting as a square peg for a round hole. And what do you know, that's exactly what it is.

George Hill is a really good backup, like $6 million a year good, but no higher. He could start at SG in a pinch, but that isn't going to happen here. If the Pacers are serious about improving he won't be starting at point guard (for long, anyway). And to the guy who brought up Stuckey, yeah, that's considered a bad contract.

k_lewis93

06-30-2012, 11:15 AM

I'd go as high as 7.5 which i think is fair and if its offered i think we will see Hill in the Pacers jersey again

Major Cold

06-30-2012, 11:20 AM

I would keep the first year below 6. But on average around 6.8

Banta

06-30-2012, 11:44 AM

$4 or $5 million. Hill isn't a starting caliber PG in this league and I sure as hell wouldn't want to be paying a backup combo guard with questionable decision making and lazy defense $7 million per season. There's likely to be better and possibly cheaper options available.

Right-o. He's a 6th man who should primarily be at SG and only see spot duty at PG due to injury or foul trouble. I wouldn't mind just seeing him walk. His best attribute has more to do with his personality than his skillset.

Justin Tyme

06-30-2012, 12:13 PM

Hope you saw where I said that Conley is actually making 7.9 per year over the length of his contract.

Yes, I saw it. As of today he's making 6.6 mil. Next season, IIRC, he making 7.3 mil. He's making more, b/c he's a better PG than Hill. I don't want to see Walsh pay Hill Conley money when Hill isn't as good.

He's also not as good as Lowry at 5.7 mil, so he should make less. 5-5.5 mil is the MOST the Pacers should sign Hill for, but I wouldn't hold my breath or bet the farm on that's what the Pacers will sign him for with Walsh in charge.

Justin Tyme

06-30-2012, 12:32 PM

I'll go on record saying if the Pacers don't get a true QUALITY PG this off season, they are content with just being a mediocre team this coming season. This is the one position they can't afford not to improve.... plain and simple. JMOAA

croz24

06-30-2012, 12:36 PM

Conley actually knows how to run a team's offense, which is... you know... what a point guard is supposed to do.

Hill's defense is nice, but we all saw how stagnant the offense sometimes got with Hill running the team.

Agree, but Hill's defense actually isn't very good. He got beat all series against both Nelson and Chalmers, and for the most part is a very lazy defender. I have no clue why people overvalue our players the way that they do, but Hill is not worth the $6 or $7 million most are suggesting.

Hicks

06-30-2012, 12:38 PM

50 wins is not mediocrity.

Ace E.Anderson

06-30-2012, 12:41 PM

No, I make it sound like Hill is a quality backup guard who lacks above average passing or playmaking (aka point guard) skills, who we had starting as a square peg for a round hole. And what do you know, that's exactly what it is.

George Hill is a really good backup, like $6 million a year good, but no higher. He could start at SG in a pinch, but that isn't going to happen here. If the Pacers are serious about improving he won't be starting at point guard (for long, anyway). And to the guy who brought up Stuckey, yeah, that's considered a bad contract.

Our system isn't set up for a "traditional" point guard to thrive. We have a post oriented type of offense, therefore out PG's need to not turn the ball over and be able to hit the three ball, 2 things Hill excells at. I've made the argument plenty of times, but most championship contending teams aren't led by a "traditional" PG. 3 out of the 4 conference finals teams were led by either a scoring PG or a low turnover, 3pt shooting PG who plays defense.

Also, G.Hill is still a young player who is going to improve. He's never had the opportunity to concentrate on solely being a PG. And he's only been in this system for a yr (not even, given the lockout)

I'm not saying he's worth a great deal of money (anything over 6.8-7 is crazy) but I just don't think we would be a better team if Conley was our starting PG. that's why I don't think he'd be a better player

croz24

06-30-2012, 01:02 PM

Still don't get why we're focusing so much on the PG position when it's a lack of elite talent across the board that continues to doom us. Our PG play was on par with Orlando and Miami and not the reason we've lost the last two years. Other than the top 5 or so PGs in the league, just about everyone else is level with each other. Give Lowry, Dragic, Conley, etc the same system we run, and then they'd be *****ed about just like Collison. Our offensive system is the reason our PGs don't put up the "stats" many want. But no Pritchard, Bird, and Walsh, our starting 5 is NOT good enough to win a title. While remaining complacent won't make us mediocre, it will prevent us from finally getting over the top and winning an NBA title.

OlBlu

06-30-2012, 01:11 PM

I'll go on record saying if the Pacers don't get a true QUALITY PG this off season, they are content with just being a mediocre team this coming season. This is the one position they can't afford not to improve.... plain and simple. JMOAA

And management keeps telling you that you are wrong and they are content with the PG situation the way it is. They are filling backup positions and may not make a move at all but sign Hill and Hibbert instead.....:cool: This team just had a great season with the PGs we had. Hill is important because he can cover two positions and that is what makes him valuable to us and it will to other teams too...

OlBlu

06-30-2012, 01:12 PM

Still don't get why we're focusing so much on the PG position when it's a lack of elite talent across the board that continues to doom us. Our PG play was on par with Orlando and Miami and not the reason we've lost the last two years. Other than the top 5 or so PGs in the league, just about everyone else is level with each other. Give Lowry, Dragic, Conley, etc the same system we run, and then they'd be *****ed about just like Collison. Our offensive system is the reason our PGs don't put up the "stats" many want. But no Pritchard, Bird, and Walsh, our starting 5 is NOT good enough to win a title. While remaining complacent won't make us mediocre, it will prevent us from finally getting over the top and winning an NBA title.

Bingo!!

Justin Tyme

06-30-2012, 01:23 PM

50 wins is not mediocrity.

It becomes mediocrity if you continue to stay there year after year w/o getting better.

OlBlu

06-30-2012, 01:27 PM

It becomes mediocrity if you continue to stay there year after year w/o getting better.

You can also move backward if you don't sign a player like Hill considering what you gave up to get him......:cool:

Brad8888

06-30-2012, 01:46 PM

I would give him a 3 year subscription, with a team option to purchase an additional two years at a discounted rate through whatever local school is selling magazine subscriptions that day. I know, it might be a little risque for some school systems, but times are tough for fundraising and this is a magazine with a fiercely loyal following.

As far as a contract for Hill, my guess is that it would take at least $8 million to keep him from going back to San Antonio.

BornReady

06-30-2012, 01:52 PM

I would give him a 3 year subscription, with a team option to purchase an additional two years at a discounted rate through whatever local school is selling magazine subscriptions that day. I know, it might be a little risque for some school systems, but times are tough for fundraising and this is a magazine with a fiercely loyal following.

As far as a contract for Hill, my guess is that it would take at least $8 million to keep him from going back to San Antonio.
hum. that's a really steep price for Hill...

Jeremy

06-30-2012, 01:57 PM

I wouln't go any higher than 6.5 million per year.

3rdStrike

06-30-2012, 02:10 PM

Our offensive system is the reason our PGs don't put up the "stats" many want. But no Pritchard, Bird, and Walsh, our starting 5 is NOT good enough to win a title. While remaining complacent won't make us mediocre, it will prevent us from finally getting over the top and winning an NBA title.

This is an easy way out type of thinking, but it's not accurate. Our point guards sucked in the run and gun offense. They sucked in Vogel's offense. And oh by the way, Vogel's offense isn't some static, set in stone law as with Jerry Sloan, Phil Jackson, Rick Carlisle, etc. He's not a seasoned head coach. He wasn't a head coach in college. He's yet to even have a definite system. The dude's had one season and some change, and with subpar point guards. "It's the system, stupid!" No, it's not. Logically speaking, it's more than likely him trying to make the best with what he's got: a slow team of spot up shooters, a weak but skilled big man and nobody with passing skills. For all we know he'd like to open things up more but he knows what would happen if he told DC and Danny and etc to go for assists: clumsy, embarrassing failure.

OlBlu

06-30-2012, 02:13 PM

This is an easy way out type of thinking, but it's not accurate. Our point guards sucked in the run and gun offense. They sucked in Vogel's offense. And oh by the way, Vogel's offense isn't some static, set in stone law as with Jerry Sloan, Phil Jackson, Rick Carlisle, etc. He's not a seasoned head coach. He wasn't a head coach in college. He's yet to even have a definite system. The dude's had one season and some change, and with subpar point guards. "It's the system, stupid!" No, it's not. Logically speaking, it's more than likely him trying to make the best with what he's got: a slow team of spot up shooters, a weak but skilled big man and nobody with passing skills. For all we know he'd like to open things up more but he knows what would happen if he told DC and Danny and etc to go for assists: clumsy, embarrassing failure.

I'll say it again. I do not believe Vogel or the Pacers FO believes this and it is not the PG position that they are working on. I think they sign someone like Mayo before they go for a PG of any kind......:cool:

croz24

06-30-2012, 03:23 PM

This is an easy way out type of thinking, but it's not accurate. Our point guards sucked in the run and gun offense. They sucked in Vogel's offense. And oh by the way, Vogel's offense isn't some static, set in stone law as with Jerry Sloan, Phil Jackson, Rick Carlisle, etc. He's not a seasoned head coach. He wasn't a head coach in college. He's yet to even have a definite system. The dude's had one season and some change, and with subpar point guards. "It's the system, stupid!" No, it's not. Logically speaking, it's more than likely him trying to make the best with what he's got: a slow team of spot up shooters, a weak but skilled big man and nobody with passing skills. For all we know he'd like to open things up more but he knows what would happen if he told DC and Danny and etc to go for assists: clumsy, embarrassing failure.

Say what you want, but if you'll pay attention to the sets we run and the role of the PG in those sets, you will see that it is indeed the system that is preventing the gaudy assist stats so many of you want. What were we, 29th in the league in assists? And you want to tell me it's not because our PGs are asked to use our wing players to feed the post nearly every time down the court where we then go isolation for the remainder of the shot clock? This is not a ball dominant system we run, which is a semi-requirement for a PG to rack up huge assists. Collison's usage % was among the league's worst for PGs. Meaning our point guards are not involved nearly as much as they should be in our offensive system.

Justin Tyme

06-30-2012, 03:53 PM

I would give him a 3 year subscription, with a team option to purchase an additional two years at a discounted rate through whatever local school is selling magazine subscriptions that day. I know, it might be a little risque for some school systems, but times are tough for fundraising and this is a magazine with a fiercely loyal following.

As far as a contract for Hill, my guess is that it would take at least $8 million to keep him from going back to San Antonio.

The Spurs don't have the money to re-sign hill. That's the reason they let him go in the 1st place.

The Spurs wouldn't take Hill back in a trade for Leonard straight up if was possible, which it isn't.

Really?

06-30-2012, 03:59 PM

Yes, I saw it. As of today he's making 6.6 mil. Next season, IIRC, he making 7.3 mil. He's making more, b/c he's a better PG than Hill. I don't want to see Walsh pay Hill Conley money when Hill isn't as good.

He's also not as good as Lowry at 5.7 mil, so he should make less. 5-5.5 mil is the MOST the Pacers should sign Hill for, but I wouldn't hold my breath or bet the farm on that's what the Pacers will sign him for with Walsh in charge.

Maybe his PG skills are not on the same level, but his overall game and value to his team more than qualify him to get paid a similar amount. And honestly there are various routes to win a championship, some do it with guys that play more of a traditional PG role, and others due it with guys that don't. But the thing is all the teams that win have some kind of superstar, and that is something that we don't have. I would be more worried about that than anything else.

Pacerized

06-30-2012, 04:41 PM

We should offer him nothing right away but let him know that we plan to pursue an ufa first.

Since no other team will offer him more then MLE there is no reason for us to jump the gun and be stupid. Just wait and match the MLE offer if we have to go that high. No one will offer Hill the $7 mil that he wants, the market value of combo guards is not that high.

Really?

06-30-2012, 04:46 PM

We should offer him nothing right away but let him know that we plan to pursue an ufa first.

Since no other team will offer him more then MLE there is no reason for us to jump the gun and be stupid. Just wait and match the MLE offer if we have to go that high. No one will offer Hill the $7 mil that he wants, the market value of combo guards is not that high.

Stuckey got 8.5 per for 3 years, Lou Williams just turned down a player option for 6.37 mill because he can get more...

Pacer Fan

06-30-2012, 04:49 PM

4 yrs. 24mil

Justin Tyme

06-30-2012, 05:10 PM

Stuckey got 8.5 per for 3 years, Lou Williams just turned down a player option for 6.37 mill because he can get more...

Just b/c Dumars wanted to give that type of a contract doesn't mean the Pacers should. Look at what Dumars gave Gordon and Charlie V. Would you? Dumars' deals aren't what I'd set the standard as.

My feeling Lou Williams is looking for a lengthy contract. I'm not so sure he's going to get much more than what he's giving up at Philly. From what I've read, the Philly fans are elated he opted out. (I'm not interested in him either.)

Roaming Gnome

06-30-2012, 05:27 PM

Bingo!!
You forgot something.... :cool:

Personally, the absolute max I'd offer him is $7.5M... But, if the FO doesn't come into agreement with him you could be paying something in that neighborhood for an overall less talented player in FA.

Really?

06-30-2012, 05:39 PM

Just b/c Dumars wanted to give that type of a contract doesn't mean the Pacers should. Look at what Dumars gave Gordon and Charlie V. Would you? Dumars' deals aren't what I'd set the standard as.

My feeling Lou Williams is looking for a lengthy contract. I'm not so sure he's going to get much more than what he's giving up at Philly. From what I've read, the Philly fans are elated he opted out. (I'm not interested in him either.)

Thing is though even if Hill got 7 mill over 3 years, that is 4.5 mill over the term that Stuckey got, that is a big difference, I would not pay Hill 8.5, but 7 is more than doable. I think since you are seeing him as only a PG and determining his salary mostly off of that you are undervaluing him. Like I said before, last year he was our Most efficient scorer and to me that says a lot, he was also a good definder, and has range on his shot.

Pacerized

06-30-2012, 06:16 PM

Stuckey got 8.5 per for 3 years, Lou Williams just turned down a player option for 6.37 mill because he can get more...

And Jamal Crawford signed for 2 years at 5 mil per. Last years free agency proved that teams are a lot less likely to overpay for mediocre talent under the new cba. I think teams will still pay for max players but Hill falls in the middle just like Crawford. He's a fringe starter not a fringe all star. There is nothing wrong with that but no one under today's cba is going to offer Hill 7 mil, it's not his market value and the Pacers shouldn't pay over market value. Offer him 5 mil after we bring in a free agent with our cap space, then if someone offers him the full MLE match it.

OlBlu

06-30-2012, 06:19 PM

:cool:
You forgot something.... :cool:

Personally, the absolute max I'd offer him is $7.5M... But, if the FO doesn't come into agreement with him you could be paying something in that neighborhood for an overall less talented player in FA.

Pardon me......:cool:

rabid

06-30-2012, 06:29 PM

It becomes mediocrity if you continue to stay there year after year w/o getting better.

Then it's a good thing that's not what the team has been doing. .636 winning percentage last year following .441 the year before.

EDIT: and I'd go up to 7.5 mil if we don't sign another PG, though I'd prefer to pay in the 5-6 area while getting a starting 1 like Nash or at least above-average-starter quality.

CableKC

06-30-2012, 08:57 PM

I'll go on record saying if the Pacers don't get a true QUALITY PG this off season, they are content with just being a mediocre team this coming season. This is the one position they can't afford not to improve.... plain and simple. JMOAA
I'd even be happy with DreMiller.....but I'm beginning to think this as well. :(

RLeWorm

06-30-2012, 09:00 PM

7-7.5 mill

Really?

06-30-2012, 10:19 PM

And Jamal Crawford signed for 2 years at 5 mil per. Last years free agency proved that teams are a lot less likely to overpay for mediocre talent under the new cba. I think teams will still pay for max players but Hill falls in the middle just like Crawford. He's a fringe starter not a fringe all star. There is nothing wrong with that but no one under today's cba is going to offer Hill 7 mil, it's not his market value and the Pacers shouldn't pay over market value. Offer him 5 mil after we bring in a free agent with our cap space, then if someone offers him the full MLE match it.

Huh, dude GH is a starter plain and simple, and offers more than just scoring, Crawford offers scoring, plus add to the fact that Crawford is older. Also Stuckey's contract was done last season as well.

Afflalo got a 5 yr 43 million dollar contract last year.

littlerichard54

06-30-2012, 10:20 PM

Weren't there rumors during the season that we were negotiating an extension around 7 million per year and it was turned down?

Really?

06-30-2012, 10:28 PM

Weren't there rumors during the season that we were negotiating an extension around 7 million per year and it was turned down?

more like 6 i believe

naptownmenace

06-30-2012, 10:56 PM

I'm not as big on George Hill as most people. Sure he hit some timely shots and the team's defense was much better when he was in the lineup but I really think that DC is a better PG. I guess I like my PGs to be able to average more than 2.9 assists per game (something Hill has yet to do in his career). Hill averaged 9 points and 2.9 assists this past year and he missed a lot of games with injuries. When he did play, he struggled to pass the ball into the post and he had a hard time defending the pick and roll. He's better suited to be a SG 6-man off the bench.

I think Nash and Dragic would be better fits for the Pacers so I wouldnt make Hill an offer much higher than the Qualifying Offer with the normal annual raises.

Pacerized

06-30-2012, 11:14 PM

Huh, dude GH is a starter plain and simple, and offers more than just scoring, Crawford offers scoring, plus add to the fact that Crawford is older. Also Stuckey's contract was done last season as well.

Afflalo got a 5 yr 43 million dollar contract last year.

Hill is a good combo guard who didn't even start for us for most of the season and will come of the bench again is we upgrade at the pg as we should. He would start on some teams but not for any team with a good pg and sg. Combo guards usually come off the bench. Comparing to a true sg with the potential of Afflalo is apples to oranges. A lot of players got more money last year but they weren't combo guards. Crawford set the market price.
Stuckey is also not a combo guard but imo he was overpaid. Both players play the 2 much better then Hill with Afflalo showing promise to perhaps become a top player in the position someday.

Really?

07-01-2012, 07:39 AM

I'm not as big on George Hill as most people. Sure he hit some timely shots and the team's defense was much better when he was in the lineup but I really think that DC is a better PG. I guess I like my PGs to be able to average more than 2.9 assists per game (something Hill has yet to do in his career). Hill averaged 9 points and 2.9 assists this past year and he missed a lot of games with injuries. When he did play, he struggled to pass the ball into the post and he had a hard time defending the pick and roll. He's better suited to be a SG 6-man off the bench.

I think Nash and Dragic would be better fits for the Pacers so I wouldnt make Hill an offer much higher than the Qualifying Offer with the normal annual raises.

Well a lot of his career he has not been playing strictly point, so that will always screw the numbers.

a couple things he had better than Collison is that he had a 3:1 turnover ratio, also during the last month of the season he had 4.7 ast and 1.1 TO per game which is better than a 4.1 turnover ratio. This shows that he is getting better in that role after he took over the starting spot at PG.

And if your really want to know Nash did not really start out as a passing PG, his skills really developed with time, he did not average more than 5.5 assist until after his 4th year.

Really?

07-01-2012, 07:47 AM

Hill is a good combo guard who didn't even start for us for most of the season and will come of the bench again is we upgrade at the pg as we should. He would start on some teams but not for any team with a good pg and sg. Combo guards usually come off the bench. Comparing to a true sg with the potential of Afflalo is apples to oranges. A lot of players got more money last year but they weren't combo guards. Crawford set the market price.
Stuckey is also not a combo guard but imo he was overpaid. Both players play the 2 much better then Hill with Afflalo showing promise to perhaps become a top player in the position someday.

You are confused if you think Stuckey is not a combo guard. Affalo showed as much promise as Brandon Rush, just without the off the court issues.

As far as Hill, he did not start first because we were going off team chemistry, and when something is not broke why would you change it. 2nd thing, he did not even have a offseason to work with the team to really build up his PG skills or his initial chemistry with the team, all this improved over the year.