Brazilian Naval Strength

This is a discussion on Brazilian Naval Strength within the Navy & Maritime forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; Originally Posted by Big-E
Are you forgetting how much they paid for that rust bucket? My SuperHornet is worth more ...

Are you forgetting how much they paid for that rust bucket? My SuperHornet is worth more than that ship and her entire airwing. Her escorts are worth more than she is. Considering her cost I think having a wing of A-4s and some S-2s for under $100 million requires 0 protection that isn't on the ship already. If the A-4s can carry exocet then they don't need Super-Etendards... if they're going to spend that much money they might as well get Rafales. The only reason Brazil has a carrier is for prestige, they never planned to really use it.

I agree with you that the carrier is for prestige... but (i) A4s can't carry Exocets (all they have is a navigation radar !) and (ii) the carrier was handed over for not much, but imagine how much it costs to pay the salaries of the 1,000+ crew, plus maintenance of systems built in the late '50s...
If the carrier is attacked, Brazil can't afford to lose her (because of the 1,000+ crew) hence the need to protect her better with better jets and escorts.

I agree with you that the carrier is for prestige... but (i) A4s can't carry Exocets (all they have is a navigation radar !) and (ii) the carrier was handed over for not much, but imagine how much it costs to pay the salaries of the 1,000+ crew, plus maintenance of systems built in the late '50s...
If the carrier is attacked, Brazil can't afford to lose her (because of the 1,000+ crew) hence the need to protect her better with better jets and escorts.

cheers

I think they need to moth ball her and just use the deck for practice.

Or join forces with Argentina and make it pay part of the costs of maintaining the ship. Argentina could use her remaining Super Etendards from the Foch/Sao Paulo.

I think the ship could be useful if it served as a sort of LPH with the Sea Kings and Cougars of its Navy & Marine Corps.

cheers

I seem to remember reading something about the Argentinean navy maintaining its carrier landing skills by practicing on Sao Paulo. Anyone know anything?

If she was to function as an LPH, that presupposes an amphibious assault. In that case, the A-4s might be useful, depending on the opposition, so she might be even more valuable as a carrier. Brazil has, AFAIK, a few old ex-US LSDs/LSTs. Ah yes - https://www.mar.mil.br/menu_h/navios/menu_navios.htm
3 of 'em.

I seem to remember reading something about the Argentinean navy maintaining its carrier landing skills by practicing on Sao Paulo. Anyone know anything?

Actually the Argentine navy has been maintained doing that since his aircraft carrier "Veinticinco de Mayo" was declared inoperative in the last 80s. It's important recall that the Brazilian navy in spite of having the Minas Gerais, they lacked of fixed wing naval aviation during the 90s until the arrival of the A-4 Skyhawk from Kuwait (IIRC in 1998). It was and is now, very common to observe Argentine aircrafts in the Sao Paulo as was before in the Minas Gerais and of course during the annual celebration of the joint exercises ARAEX and TEMPEREX.

If Brazil is going to use the carrier as a landing ship, they would be better off with a couple of used Anchorage class LPDs. They are better amphibious ships with smaller crews. Since most of the Latin American nations are neutral concerning the rest of the world, an aircraft carrier in their fleets isn't necessary. Naval aircraft can be used from land bases in the defence of these nations EEZs and sea lanes.

If Brazil is going to use the carrier as a landing ship, they would be better off with a couple of used Anchorage class LPDs. They are better amphibious ships with smaller crews. Since most of the Latin American nations are neutral concerning the rest of the world, an aircraft carrier in their fleets isn't necessary. Naval aircraft can be used from land bases in the defence of these nations EEZs and sea lanes.

Looked at a map of Brazil lately? Lots of landmass, mostly rainforrest, not a whole lot of airbases. Nonetheless, long coast line and it has always straddled key shipping routes from the America's to Africa and Europe. If any country in South America could use and has use for a carries, I would think it was Brazil.

Looked at a map of Brazil lately? Lots of landmass, mostly rainforrest, not a whole lot of airbases. Nonetheless, long coast line and it has always straddled key shipping routes from the America's to Africa and Europe. If any country in South America could use and has use for a carries, I would think it was Brazil.

Well Brazil has a choice... either build airstrips for P3 Orions and install coastal radars and use frigates, corvettes and OPVs for patrol, or rely more entirely on the navy and beef it up with mini-carriers of the late "sea control ship" concept... though it would be more reasonable to have big OPVs with a couple of helos on each.

Well Brazil has a choice... either build airstrips for P3 Orions and install coastal radars and use frigates, corvettes and OPVs for patrol, or rely more entirely on the navy and beef it up with mini-carriers of the late "sea control ship" concept... though it would be more reasonable to have big OPVs with a couple of helos on each.

cheers

They don't need a fleet of SCS, a single carrier will do just fine. They can put it where it is needed most i.e. out in the ocean expanse, direction africa, not along the coast.

Nothing wrong with the carrier they currently have, considering what planes they have to put on it. Once it gets too old, they can always strike a deal with India for the production of a new light carrier. No pressing need to get involved with suppliers from Europe, US or Russia.

They don't need a fleet of SCS, a single carrier will do just fine. They can put it where it is needed most i.e. out in the ocean expanse, direction africa, not along the coast.

Nothing wrong with the carrier they currently have, considering what planes they have to put on it. Once it gets too old, they can always strike a deal with India for the production of a new light carrier. No pressing need to get involved with suppliers from Europe, US or Russia.

What carrier do they currently have? The Veintecinco De Mayo was scrapped 7 years ago. Russia can't build carriers anymore since they lost Ukraine. India doesn't have enough steel to build Argentina a carrier, they barely have enough for their own plans.

What carrier do they currently have? The Veintecinco De Mayo was scrapped 7 years ago. Russia can't build carriers anymore since they lost Ukraine. India doesn't have enough steel to build Argentina a carrier, they barely have enough for their own plans.

Brazil! Not Argentina. Wrong thread.

What's Indias steel problem? A few tens of thousands of tons are hardly significant among tens of millions (21 million tons in the first 6 months of this year, & growing very fast). If their plate mills are overburdened,
importing some steel plate is possible. Everyone trades steel: e.g. China exported 20 million tons & imported 9 million in the first half of the year.

What's Indias steel problem? A few tens of thousands of tons are hardly significant among tens of millions (21 million tons in the first 6 months of this year, & growing very fast). If their plate mills are overburdened,
importing some steel plate is possible. Everyone trades steel: e.g. China exported 20 million tons & imported 9 million in the first half of the year.

Brazil, I could have sworn this was the Argie carrier thread...oops.

It's not that there isn't steel, it's that there isn't enough quality steel needed in the use of carriers or other large ships. Russia was their previous source but they cut them off so they had to develop their own domestic source, it is still in it's infancy and their ADS, LPDs and ATVs are going to take everything their mills can pull out of it.

It's not that there isn't steel, it's that there isn't enough quality steel needed in the use of carriers or other large ships. Russia was their previous source but they cut them off so they had to develop their own domestic source, it is still in it's infancy and their ADS, LPDs and ATVs are going to take everything their mills can pull out of it.

I think they should be able to import it, if necessary. Just a question of price. Japanese mills will sell to anyone who pays, & have no difficulty producing hgh quality steel, China is now exporting steel plate for large ships to South Korea (that must be on price), etc. And in any case, this hypothetical possibility is far in the future. Brazil isn't in a hurry to replace Sao Paulo. Who knows what Indian production will be then? They're increasing production of all sorts of steel very fast.

Yes India did face shortage of steel (kind required to build ships) a year back. Heard that they have resolved it though (atleast for ADS). By the way ADS is now called IAC (Indigenous Aircraft Carrier) .

They don't need a fleet of SCS, a single carrier will do just fine. They can put it where it is needed most i.e. out in the ocean expanse, direction africa, not along the coast.

Nothing wrong with the carrier they currently have, considering what planes they have to put on it. Once it gets too old, they can always strike a deal with India for the production of a new light carrier. No pressing need to get involved with suppliers from Europe, US or Russia.

Well the availability of a single 40+ years-old carrier must be < 6 months a year. That's why I 'd have more in mind a small fleet of 2-3 small 150-metre helicopter carriers with continuous flight deck. With half a dozen heavy helos for ASW and ASUW, they would be very good patrol assets.