Posted - 11/28/2008 : 01:27:28 What do you guys think? Adds grit and ditches the euros? or works with what he has this year and goes nuts on signings next year.. don't know how much Toronto has for cap space.. gimme your guys' thoughts! Can he turn this team around?

GO NUCKS

25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First)

hanley6

Posted - 01/17/2009 : 18:56:25 he couldn't possibly do any worse than Gord Stellick, Ken Dryden, and John Ferguson Jr. That's for sure... Gord Stellick tried to ruin Toronto eg.. Trading Russ Courtnall one of Toronto's best players at the time to the Montreal Canadiens for a cocaine addict (John Kordic) did absolutely nothing for Toronto. Ken Dryden and John Ferguson Jr. did nothing for Toronto, Trade deadline would come around and no trades at all to help the team.

I think Brian Burke will do something for Toronto, he's not happy with how they are playing in the physical aspects of the game and he's not happy with Toskala either with all the easy goals that should have been stopped. He wants a team that will make the playoffs not a bottom team.. He said Joseph is at the end of his career, he is having second thoughts on Toskala's abilities and is not impressed with him at all, he don't see Pogge as a starter in the NHL because he hasn't been doing anything spectacular with the Marlies this season. I can see Toskala, Kaberle, Kubina, maybe Blake getting traded around trade deadline or in the off season. I think they should keep Blake, I dont care what anyone says about Blake he gets one season with 40 goals and everyone expects him to become a 50 goal scorer when he came to Toronto. He's still a good hockey player

Beans15

Posted - 12/02/2008 : 09:14:10

quote:Originally posted by Matt_Roberts85

Dont judge him on his past, only on what he does moving forward. I still think Vancouver is better after him than before he got there. He got rid of Messier and brought in the sedins, naslund played 100 point hockey as burkes captain and Bertuzzi was unstoppable.Vancouver was then what san jose has been the last couple years. Awesome regular season team who lost in the playoffs. Blame that on the players, not the GM. Fact of the matter is, he won a stanley cup recently. Is Bryan Murray was doing such a great job in Anaheim then why'd he get fired?Hes gonna get fired in Ottawa as well....

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".

As I have said before, Burke is not a horrible GM. He does a very good job on a short term basis to make a team better. But, he has also proven that over the long run, the teams he manage do not stay good for long. Nor does he stick around long once a team starts sliding.

And just like in Anaheim, Burke had some pretty good talent to work with in Vancouver. Mogilny, McCabe, Naslund, and Buertuzzi were already there. The only player of value that he actually aquired in his time in Vancouver was Morrison. Vancouver was in a pretty bad position when Burke arrived and had the #2 draft pick already. He did make a very good trade for the #3 pick to get the Sedins. But how are you giving any credit for Messier?? In fact, Messier left as a Free Agent, so Burke got nothing in return for Messier.

And the fact that Naslund and Bertuzzi played so well in Vancouver had nothing to do with Burke. Might want to take a look at who the coach was at that time. The GM has nothing to do with how a player plays. The GM brings in players that should have chemistry and it's the coach who brings that play out. Not the GM.

I still hold strong in the fact that Burke is not a bad GM, but he's not the best out there. Was he the best available at the time??? Definately. However, I think overall TO missed the boat in the summer of 07. They offered the job to Scottie Bowman. However, Bowman wanted Autonomy and the board in TO didn't want to give it to him. Now, after they realized they need to give their GM complete control, they settled on the 2nd best. They could have and should have brought in Bowman with complete autonomy in 07 and they would have been well on their way to getting back to form.

Matt_Roberts85

Posted - 12/01/2008 : 13:58:24 Dont judge him on his past, only on what he does moving forward. I still think Vancouver is better after him than before he got there. He got rid of Messier and brought in the sedins, naslund played 100 point hockey as burkes captain and Bertuzzi was unstoppable.Vancouver was then what san jose has been the last couple years. Awesome regular season team who lost in the playoffs. Blame that on the players, not the GM. Fact of the matter is, he won a stanley cup recently. Is Bryan Murray was doing such a great job in Anaheim then why'd he get fired?Hes gonna get fired in Ottawa as well....

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".

Beans15

Posted - 11/30/2008 : 08:02:48 Here's a thought to consider with Burke. I personally would be pretty upset if I was the owners of Anaheim right now.Burke is basically there for a little more than 3 seasons. In that time, he did win a Cup, but then he resigned. Did anyone take a look at the team today and what position they are in for the future??

The average age of the team is over 29. Only Detroit is older. They have exactly $234,000 in cap space. They have to make equitable trades at the deadline if they need to. They do not have the option of picking up a larger salary for the rest of the season on a player.

Most importantly, Anaheim has more Unrestricted Free Agents than any other team next season with 14. When you add in the RFA's involved, only the Islanders have more unsigned players next year. All of their current defensemen with the exception of Pronger are UFA's. Compare that to the Horrible GM in Edmonton who has 5 UFA's and 6 RFA's. Lowe has more players signed through 10/11 than Burke had signed in Anaheim through THIS season!!

Seriously, Burke is a fly by night GM. Sure, he will be successful short term, but he leaves the team in shambles. It's unfortunate that more people don't see that. Dave Nonis in Vancouver last season was a casualty of Burke's miss management.

The saving grace for Ananheim is they can rebuild the team from the ground up. I give Burke credit for signing the core of the team (Getzlaf, Perry, Kunitz, and Giguere) to longer term deals. But, Ananheim will be in rebuild mode starting next season. I don't think the Owners in Anaheim were expecting that!

Canucks Man

Posted - 11/30/2008 : 01:48:42 They Did NOT win the cup with either Bertuzzi or Schnieder, whom both played for Detriot the year Anahiem won the cup, and as for the Nidermeyer comment, I do NOT hate him, I just lost respect for him when he did not live up to the original contract he signed and left his team with 2 years left on his deal, yes he did return but I still think thats a s***ty thing to do. and as for your comment about him winning the cup, he did it with Bryan Murrays team.

CANUCKS RULE!!!

Savitar

Posted - 11/29/2008 : 18:25:46 Canucks Man -

I disagree with you on a couple of points there:

1. Bertuzzi - You are quite correct that 4 Million/year was too much for Bertuzzi, but then Daryl Sutter looks like a genius for signing him a year later for $2 Million. Sometimes the best laid plans come to nought, but at least Burke only signed him to a 2 year trial contract. Also worth a mention is that they won the cup the year they had Bertuzzi.

2. Schneider - I agree with Brian Burke's core strategy that defence wins championships at the NHL level. Mathieu Schnieder was a proven quantity, and a reliable player. He was also signed to a team with a very young defensive corps. to provide Stanley Cup-winning leadership in anticipation of Niedermayer's retirement. When he proved to be under-performing, and Niedermayer came back, he ended up in Atlanta.

3. The McDonald Trade - No question that Anaheim got a raw deal here, I can only answer with two examples of financial good sense: Getzlaf and Perry. Both drastically overperformed on their salaries that year, with Getzlaf recording 82 points for a salary of $623,200, and Perry notching 54 points for $494,000.

4. Cap Room- I can't deny that Burke toys (Niedermayer and Selanne) with the salary cap, and really has no room to maneuver come trade deadline most of the time. But at the same time, as a fan I'd rather have my team scraping the ceiling of the cap (Anaheim) than hanging out in the subfloor (Los Angeles). Burke has easily been the most creative GM in the salary cap era, and as much as people will accuse him of dirty tricks, he gets my respect for pushing he envelope.

5 - Penner - Frankly if you feel that Penner has proven his worth at $4.25 Million/year, then you go ahead and rip on Burke. Compare his totals with those of Niedermayer's (whom you seem to hate) : Penner has 6 points, Niedermayer has 12 this year. You could say that this is due to Niedermayer playing for a better team, but then, that would be admitting that Burke hasn't done that bad a job. Burke has won a Cup with a defence-first system, and Penner is not worth 4.25 Million by anyone's (except Kevin Lowe's) accounting. While you view Penner as a knock against Burke, I view Penner as a point in his favor.

To sum up: Burke signs veterans (s***ty old players with twice the points total of Penner) to short-term deals and is a proven team builder with the ability to sign stars (Perry and Getzlaf together barely made $1 Million last year) for less than they are worth, and avoid terrible deals (Penner has 6 points this year to reward his $4.25 Million with the Oilers). He isn't afraid to make "creative" deals around the salary cap, and has a proven track record by winning a Stanley Cup in '07. Feel free to rip on him all you like, but he'll just keep building clubs with winning records.

BTW: Guest9252: I give huge props to Cliff Fletcher for what he has done. The Leafs are much improved this year thanks to him, and he has every right to feels proud of what he has done. I just feel Burke is a better long-term solution for the Leafs.

Guest4644

Posted - 11/29/2008 : 12:09:45

quote:Originally posted by Guest6740

anyone that actually thinks burke is a good gm has to be a leaf fan because vancouver and anaheim know he screwed them over a bunch of times

Burke is a bully who'll give a quote on a slow newsday - usually something obnoxious. I give it 2 years before Toronto Make Belief fans get tired of his act.

Guest6740

Posted - 11/29/2008 : 11:09:45 anyone that actually thinks burke is a good gm has to be a leaf fan because vancouver and anaheim know he screwed them over a bunch of times

Beans15

Posted - 11/29/2008 : 08:34:15 What a really interesting part of this is that most people forget the person who really did build most of that Ananheim team. It's the same guy that a lot of you are blasting for building the current Ottawa Team!!

And I will give Burke some credit. He did add players such as Moen, Paulsson, Parros that really did put that team over the edge. But, Pronger was a gift, and both Selanne and Neidermayer didn't want to play for anyone else.

But you can also look at the other moves that Burke has done. He lost Bryzgalov left to waivers. Burtuzzi came and got bought out one year later. Schnieder signed an offer over his head and was traded for a bag of pucks. And possibly the worst deal was McDonald for Weight. Burke gave gave up a younger player under contract so he could sign Weight and Selanne to one year deals?? Weight leaves the next year for nothing. That doesn't make any sense.

And who all has Burke Drafted in his career?? The Sedin brothers was about the only good hockey move that he has done that really impressed me. Who else??? I can't think of many others if any.

My point is this: Burke is not a bad GM, but he definately doesn't walk on water. He's no Ken Holland or Lou Lamorillo that's for sure.

We will see.

Pasty7

Posted - 11/29/2008 : 08:09:43 the only problem with all these statements is when someone says the ducks were a basement team before burke hmmmmmmmmmmmm seems to me they lost in 7 games iun the stanly cup finals to a very good new jersey team! long before burke

Pasty

Guest9252

Posted - 11/29/2008 : 06:30:47

quote:Originally posted by Savitar

Burke's strength is in the financial side of running a team, which is something that Toronto has struggled with, and is one of the most important aspects of team management in the Salary Cap Era. Burke has a very good eye for young talent, and has a gift for selling a team to a player, rather than always being the highest bidder. He also always has something to say, and it will usually be controversial, which the ravenous Toronto media circus that follows the Leafs will love.

Toronto needs a builder, and 6 years sounds like a good number. With all due respect to Cliff Fletcher, who deserves a lot of respect, I feel that Burke and Toronto will be a match made in heaven. Burke gets the big cheque, the media will gobble up his every word, and Toronto will be rebuilt on strong young players making slightly less than they are worth. Its Win/Win/Win.

I really hope Cliff Fletcher is okay with the whole thing, and kudos to him, but Burke really does seem like the right man for the job. he has no loyalty (or very little) to players he feels want too much money, and makes tough, smart, business decisions that benefit a team over the long run. Toronto WILL be a better team as a result of Brian Burke, but it will take a couple of seasons.

Burke was the guy that totally screwed the Ducks financialy with the whole Neidermayer situation. He INHERITED a stanley cup team , he didnt build it. Cliff Fletcher is twice the GM burke is and the maple laughs are gona be crap for at keast six years. Oh well they have been for the last forty, why change now?

Canucks Man

Posted - 11/29/2008 : 01:34:03

quote:Originally posted by Savitar

Burke's strength is in the financial side of running a team

I read this part of your about 30 times because I kept thinking I was reading it wrong. Burke is one of the WORST GMs when it comes to the salary cap. He spends all his money and his team ends up in a s*** load of cap trouble like they did last year. He signed Bertuzzi to 4 mill a season, signed Schnieder to to much then had to deal away Mcdonald because no one wanted a washed up Bertuzzi and a old man in Schnieder, he had nothing but cap problems with the Ducks and probably could have kept Penner if he had not givin all his teams money to s***ty and old players.

CANUCKS RULE!!!

Guest6651

Posted - 11/29/2008 : 00:32:40

quote:Originally posted by Guest4934

Burke is my favorite GM of all time... he pulls no punches and his idea of a good hockey team is an exciting hockey team, as a long time Vancouver Fan/Resident I can tell you that although we never went that deep in the post-season Burke's years in Vancouver were some of our best and he definetly turned that organization around, into a winner, and even though his changes are dying in Vancouver that winning legacy is just getting better and better, not to brag but I feel the Canucks are particularily strong this year :) doesn't have much to do with Burke but one could argue that it perhaps does? and any excuse to point out how good the Canucks are doing in a forum full of lea've's fans is particularily sweet...

He then went to Anaheim and turned a basement team into a contender, then a champion. Burke gets too much credit for thier win, someone spewed earlier???

Ducks with Burke = Cup in 2007.Ducks without Burke = NO Cup in 2007.

I would give him 100% of the credit for that cup if it weren't for the fact that he isn't actually out there playing.

With that being said... I wish him the worst of luck for the next 6 years (if he actually sticks it out/doesn't get fired) because the le'ave's are my least favorite, and the most over-rated team EVER (They suck). and whenever their evil system gobbles up a favorite player of mine that player gets used up and spat out in a sad heap of controversy.

On the other side of the coin I hope to hell Sundin doesn't pick Vancouver and I hope Mike Gillis has the forsight not to sign that old worthless Leaf. If not for any other reason then the fact that he wasn't down at all to be a Canuck and only now would he consider it because we are winning.

By the way it's not Leafs, since that is NOT A WORD IN THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE NOR A PROPER NAME.LEA've'S SUCK.

Notable Exception: Former Leaf Kyle Wellwood - though I never thought I could like a former leaf, that man has hands! What a bad loss for T.O.!!!

GO CANUCKS GO!

Dude what are you talking about with this 2007, Cup, no Cup stuff?

GM in 2007 won CupGM in 2008 blasted out of the 1st roundGM in 2008: Realizing how badly he has screwed over Anaheim with the cap and talent...(Penner, McDonald- Weight, Bertuzzi, Schneider...) bails on Anaheim for a team that has cap-mobility..

Best GM, please he was handed a stacked, young team. While they are great moves no doubt, all he did was add Niedermayer and Pronger.Selanne too, but really Burke lucked out with that one. He admitted he took Selanne at a bargain price, just to see what he could do, Burke did not chase after Selanne expecting him to be a 90-point player again and Selanne did not really want to play anywhere else anyways.Beauchemain, Burke has openly admitted his assistant GM recommended adding him.

Burke DID NOT build Anaheim into a Champion. To use a cake analogy, he just added some frosting and candles, the flashy parts, meanwhile someone else actually made the rest of the cake from scratch. Who bakes a cake really, the person who adds frosting and candles or the person who actually adds, combines, mixes and bakes the ingredients?

After that he made some of the dumbest (and I called them dumb moves at the time, not in hindsight) GM moves of all time in signing Schneider and Bertuzzi, two overrated and injury-prone players, to absolutely brutal contracts, then that forced Burke to trade a skilled and speedy McDonald for old Doug Weight just to sign Selanne. Ridiculous.

Guest4934

Posted - 11/28/2008 : 22:48:32 Burke is my favorite GM of all time... he pulls no punches and his idea of a good hockey team is an exciting hockey team, as a long time Vancouver Fan/Resident I can tell you that although we never went that deep in the post-season Burke's years in Vancouver were some of our best and he definetly turned that organization around, into a winner, and even though his changes are dying in Vancouver that winning legacy is just getting better and better, not to brag but I feel the Canucks are particularily strong this year :) doesn't have much to do with Burke but one could argue that it perhaps does? and any excuse to point out how good the Canucks are doing in a forum full of lea've's fans is particularily sweet...

He then went to Anaheim and turned a basement team into a contender, then a champion. Burke gets too much credit for thier win, someone spewed earlier???

Ducks with Burke = Cup in 2007.Ducks without Burke = NO Cup in 2007.

I would give him 100% of the credit for that cup if it weren't for the fact that he isn't actually out there playing.

With that being said... I wish him the worst of luck for the next 6 years (if he actually sticks it out/doesn't get fired) because the le'ave's are my least favorite, and the most over-rated team EVER (They suck). and whenever their evil system gobbles up a favorite player of mine that player gets used up and spat out in a sad heap of controversy.

On the other side of the coin I hope to hell Sundin doesn't pick Vancouver and I hope Mike Gillis has the forsight not to sign that old worthless Leaf. If not for any other reason then the fact that he wasn't down at all to be a Canuck and only now would he consider it because we are winning.

By the way it's not Leafs, since that is NOT A WORD IN THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE NOR A PROPER NAME.LEA've'S SUCK.

Notable Exception: Former Leaf Kyle Wellwood - though I never thought I could like a former leaf, that man has hands! What a bad loss for T.O.!!!

GO CANUCKS GO!

Savitar

Posted - 11/28/2008 : 18:43:41 Burke's strength is in the financial side of running a team, which is something that Toronto has struggled with, and is one of the most important aspects of team management in the Salary Cap Era. Burke has a very good eye for young talent, and has a gift for selling a team to a player, rather than always being the highest bidder. He also always has something to say, and it will usually be controversial, which the ravenous Toronto media circus that follows the Leafs will love.

Toronto needs a builder, and 6 years sounds like a good number. With all due respect to Cliff Fletcher, who deserves a lot of respect, I feel that Burke and Toronto will be a match made in heaven. Burke gets the big cheque, the media will gobble up his every word, and Toronto will be rebuilt on strong young players making slightly less than they are worth. Its Win/Win/Win.

I really hope Cliff Fletcher is okay with the whole thing, and kudos to him, but Burke really does seem like the right man for the job. he has no loyalty (or very little) to players he feels want too much money, and makes tough, smart, business decisions that benefit a team over the long run. Toronto WILL be a better team as a result of Brian Burke, but it will take a couple of seasons.

Guest2748

Posted - 11/28/2008 : 18:38:15

quote:Originally posted by Guest2559

quote:Originally posted by Guest2791

Haha Brian Burke is so over-rated. I realized how stupid he was when he was feuding with Lowe over Dustin Penner. If Edmonton is stupid enough to offer Penner a ridiculous amount of money, let them, they will pay for it and they are! He is 6'4 240 pounds and has 6 points in 19 games and only 8 PIM! and Brian Burke cried over him. Trust me guys this guy isnt going to save the leaf organization, in fact he will more likely make it hit rock bottom. Burke doesnt know an Alexander Ovechkin from an Alexandre Daigle.

You my friend must have been droped on your head a few times as a baby or your mom was hitting the Crack Pipe while she was carrying you. Anyway Burke won a cup 2 years ago. He lost a big part of his team in Dustin Penner (Who was playing very well with Perry and Getzlaf) to a stupid offer sheet (thats what he was upset about) and I think everybody can see the diffrence in Ovie and Daigle.

yes i know thats what he was upset about which was stupid, Brian Burke should have realized he can't keep all his players because there is a thing called a Salary Cap and the little crybaby couldn't deal with it. If he didnt want to clear room for Penner then he should have just shut up and dealt with it.

I think Beans summed up Burke the best however, he is over-credited with the Ducks winning the cup, He played a very small part in their win.

Guest0520

Posted - 11/28/2008 : 18:03:22 who knows whats gonna happen i bet burke is gonna shock all of you. i donno if you watch the leafs or not but they are doin way better than last year already and they look way better. their a yound fast team now, no more old farts. keep sundin away he will only ruin things again. i say 2-3 years they will compete for the cup. or atleast in the conference final

Beans15

Posted - 11/28/2008 : 13:10:57 I was listening to a sports reporter from the National Post the other morning. He was a guest on a local sports radio show in Edmonton. He said that Burke was one of the most over-rated GM's in the game today.

The highlights of the conversation were around the teams he has managed and what he has done as a GM. In Vancouver, the team really didn't do anything. He left the team worse off than when he started. Sure, he won the Cup in Anaheim, but most of that team was built by Brain Murray. Burke added a few missing piece. But, you might also consider that the team in Anaheim did not get better since the Cup and Burke is leaving the team worse off than when he started.

The thing with Burke is that I have never perceived him as the kind of GM that can make something out of nothing. All of the trades he has made have been very equitable. Maybe I will be proven wrong, but I can't think of a single trade or signing he made that was completely lopsided.

That being said, he doesn't have a ton to work with in TO. Not much tradalbe talent and if they continue to play middle of the road hockey they will continue to get middle of the road draft picks. I can't see him being the savior. However, he will do better than most. If he did sign a deal with an autonomy clause, he will run the team as he sees fit. That is more that any other GM in TO has had a chance to do in well over a decade.

But, as a poster above mentioned, TO is still 5 years from legitimately competing for a Cup.

Guest4133

Posted - 11/28/2008 : 12:59:08 Burke will have all the Toronto media fired if they don't start writing positive columns about the Make Bleliefs.

Guest2559

Posted - 11/28/2008 : 12:32:01

quote:Originally posted by Guest2791

Haha Brian Burke is so over-rated. I realized how stupid he was when he was feuding with Lowe over Dustin Penner. If Edmonton is stupid enough to offer Penner a ridiculous amount of money, let them, they will pay for it and they are! He is 6'4 240 pounds and has 6 points in 19 games and only 8 PIM! and Brian Burke cried over him. Trust me guys this guy isnt going to save the leaf organization, in fact he will more likely make it hit rock bottom. Burke doesnt know an Alexander Ovechkin from an Alexandre Daigle.

You my friend must have been droped on your head a few times as a baby or your mom was hitting the Crack Pipe while she was carrying you. Anyway Burke won a cup 2 years ago. He lost a big part of his team in Dustin Penner (Who was playing very well with Perry and Getzlaf) to a stupid offer sheet (thats what he was upset about) and I think everybody can see the diffrence in Ovie and Daigle.

Guest2791

Posted - 11/28/2008 : 12:10:42 Haha Brian Burke is so over-rated. I realized how stupid he was when he was feuding with Lowe over Dustin Penner. If Edmonton is stupid enough to offer Penner a ridiculous amount of money, let them, they will pay for it and they are! He is 6'4 240 pounds and has 6 points in 19 games and only 8 PIM! and Brian Burke cried over him. Trust me guys this guy isnt going to save the leaf organization, in fact he will more likely make it hit rock bottom. Burke doesnt know an Alexander Ovechkin from an Alexandre Daigle.

Matt_Roberts85

Posted - 11/28/2008 : 10:38:11 As much as I like the signing, I agree with slozo, im setting the bar low. Especially for this year and next. It will definatley take some time, like 5-7 years before we can expect the Leafs to be Stanley Cup contenders. I will preach this though, the leafs now have a very good coaching staff, a good gm who is going to bring in a great assistant gm in Dave Nonis, and Joe Nieuwendyk running show. I will be very surprised if they do not improve this team by a large margain in the next year or two.

The Stanley Cup is so freakin hard to win that expecting one to come to town isn't fair to anyone in the organization, but being a competitive playoff team is a perfectly reasonable expectation. But damn, wouldn't a cup parade in the next half decade or so be freakin sweet!!!!!Well, if you hate the Leafs probably not, but for the rest of us..... ^_^

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".

Guest6740

Posted - 11/28/2008 : 10:08:02 so happy to hear this burke is going to screw em like he did to vancouver then ditch at soon as he gets another big offer

Like Obama bringing change, I think it's a lot of hype around the same old style with a different label. Ultimately, we'll see, but I'm setting the bar low.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug

Leafsfan_94

Posted - 11/28/2008 : 05:06:36 he better i have a feeling that if players dont play their best, they'll be off the team. get rid of kaberle, like i said hes too soft. and if he didnt score on his own net last night leafs would have won! toskala, i wish could play like he did last night every night. he had a great game, but if he doesnt want burke to trade him, then he better start playing. antropov also fell off the face of the earth, so id say ron wilson told him you better stop being a big 6'6 woos and go hit somebody, and he was really throwin his weight around last night