Saturday, May 19, 2012

1) Averting another Great Depression2) Rescuing the Auto Industry3) Repealing the discrimination of “Don’t ask, Don’t tell”4) Passing the comprehensive health care act5) Ending the War in Iraq6) Nominating two women to the U.S. Supreme Court7) Killing Osama bin Laden8.) Reduced unemployment and created 3.5 million new jobs

While overshadowed by designs such as the HK MP5 and MP7, the original UZI SMG remains popular with about 10 million copies used in 90 countries.

Guns that are designed for military and police use are not limited to those markets. Manufacturers know that law abiding civilian gun owners are also interested in their products. But, the marketing and sales of these weapons doesn't end there. Criminal buyers represent a huge market share, the exact numbers are a jealously guarded secret, but the manufacturers know.

What's your opinion? Should a gun like that be considered an assault weapon and prohibited for civilian use?

Fealofai Laiafa, 31, and his sister had reportedly been arguing
with his sister’s boyfriend, who is also the father of the woman’s
child.

During the argument, the boyfriend allegedly went outside and broke a window to Laiafa’s bedroom.

Laiafa then allegedly fired one shot at the victim’s feet with a pistol through the broken window.

No one was injured, and responding officers found a gun believed to be the weapon used in the shooting nearby.

Officers found Laiafa to be in possession of methamphetamine, and
he was arrested for assault with a deadly weapon and possession of a
controlled substance.

No charge for illegal possession of a firearm means only one thing in California. This guy was a lawful gun owner. And like so many, he was absolutely unfit to exercise that right. Besides the drug use, he demonstrated an inability to deal with conflict without unnecessarily resorting to the gun.

In Florida, this would have been a legitimate DGU and the cops would have had no reason to find the drugs. That's why the California attitudes towards gun use are better.

State’s Attorney Julia Rietz said the youth had taken the magazine
out of the .25-caliber handgun that he had stolen in February from a
Rantoul drug dealer’s home but apparently didn’t realize it was still
loaded.

Rietz said the teen told Urbana police that Mekhi had been playing with the gun, which the teen kept in his room.

“He pointed it at the child and pulled the trigger, wanting to scare
him and teach him about gun safety, not knowing there was a round in the
chamber,” she said.

Rietz said after the round hit the toddler in the forehead, the teen
scooped the child up and ran outdoors with him, handing his limp body to
a young female friend he knew from school.

Assistant State’s Attorney Chris Kanis told Ladd in court that the
child was still breathing, although the breathing was labored and the
child had an obvious open wound to the forehead.

When the first officer arrived, the girl handed the wounded boy to
him. At the same time, the teen was outside still holding the gun and
yelling hysterically that he had shot his nephew and was going to shoot
himself, Kanis said.

Where was the parental supervision in this horror story? That's what I want to know.

A man in Logan County was left in critical condition after he was struck by a gunshot fired by a neighbor who was trying to shoot a stray cat.

The Logan County Sheriff's Office says 29-year-old Terry Osburn was sitting on his porch in the Prairie View community on Tuesday when the gunshot struck him in the face.

A 58-year-old neighbor was several hundred feet away and took aim at a stray cat with a .38-caliber handgun.
The neighbor's name wasn't released but deputies say he was arrested for suspicion of second-degree battery.

The sheriff's department says the men hadn't been arguing and that the shooting appears to have been accidental.

How does that "second-degree battery work? That should be easily bargained down to a slap on the wrist, don't you think?

You can take the girl out of Texas, but you can’t take the Texas out of a girl.

Today Selena Gomez spent time at the gun range when she needed a break from her busy schedule!

Selena Gomez may be one of the busiest young stars in Hollywood, juggling her burgeoning acting career while still making music and being a great girlfriend to Justin Bieber. But even teen stars need some time to relax and have fun, and while Selena may stay away from drugs and alcohol she can’t resist a good firearm.

“Released some stress today,” Selena, 19, tweeted alongside a picture of her at a shooting range.

Because of the starlet’s innocent reputation, we expected her to be baking cookies in her free time rather than firing pistols. However, she’s in Bulgaria right now shooting The Getaway remake, which is action packed.

Now that's just what we need, huh, teen heart throbs shooting guns for relaxation. I must admit, this would go a long way towards normalizing guns than all those fat white older guys doing open carry.

J.T. Ready had 13 encounters with Gilbert police since 2008, and
corresponding police reports depict an armed vigilante with a short
temper, racially charged motives and a history of domestic-violence
accusations.

He and Loughner are both examples of so-called lawful gun owners who are really hidden criminals. They both enjoyed Arizona-style gun laws, things like permit-less concealed carry. They both had no problem owning and using guns legally in spite of being mentally ill.

Three people were killed Thursday after a chaotic shooting scene that had crowds running for cover in a crime-ridden section of Louisville.

Two men — Tyson Mimms, 24 and Craig Bland Jr.,
22 — were killed Thursday afternoon in a shooting that attracted dozens
of onlookers anxious for answers in the city's Russell neighborhood,
which is dotted with boarded-up houses.

As police investigated and a host of media gathered nearby, shots rang out about four houses down. Makeba Lee, 24, was killed after she was shot by a woman who had gotten into an argument with her about the incident, police said.

Gun availability is one of the major contributing factors in these stories. And the factor of gun availability can be blamed on the NRA, the gun manufacturers and the gun-rights advocates. Here's how it works.

There are three main ways in which guns are channeled into the criminal world. 1. straw purchasing, 2. personal sales without background checks, and 3. theft.
Each of those are still viable because of the lack of common-sense legislation which would either eradicate them or severely diminish them.

Who do you think is fighting tooth and nail to prevent licensing and registration which would eliminate straw purchasing, and universal background checks which would stop criminals from buying guns from lawful sellers, and safe storage laws which would cut way down on theft?

That's why I blame them. We all agree that criminals and gang bangers are always going to do their thing, but allowing them easy access to guns is wrong.

posted a fascinating list of no-nos for your career. Here's one of them.

Weapons charges: Are you a gun fanatic? In addition to handling your weapons with care,
you had better be sure you don't get cited for misdemeanor weapons
violations like carrying a concealed weapon or brandishing a concealed
firearm. These charges could end your career. How would you expect an
employer to react to an employee's conviction on a weapons charge? What
if the employee brought the weapon to work? What if the employee had the
weapon concealed during business hours? And what if something happened
that caused the employee to use the weapon? An employer is likely to
conclude that hiring or retaining an employee guilty of a weapons charge
might not be worth the risk, and that's not a position you want to be
in.

The National Rifle Association has strongly supported
"Stand your ground" laws, which are in nearly 30 states, including
Florida. But why has the group not been vocal about the Marissa
Alexander case?

On Aug. 1, 2010, Alexander, of Jacksonville, Fla. -- then a
31-year-old mother of three with a 9-day-old baby -- fired a single
warning shot into her ceiling after her husband, who had been arrested
twice on domestic-battery charges, threatened her. He allegedly said,
"If I can't have you, nobody going to have you." The shot hit no one.

She believed that she had the legal right to defend herself under
Florida's "Stand your ground" law -- the same defense that George
Zimmerman has claimed in the shooting death of Trayvon Martin. But a
judge decided otherwise, applying the state's 10-20-Life law, under which an assault with a firearm carries a steep penalty. Her sentence? A mandatory minimum of 20 years in prison.

What's your opinion? Is it the racism within the organization that accounts for this difficult-to-understand disparity?

A Chesterfield County woman was found guilty Tuesday of brandishing her
husband's pistol at several teens and placing the gun to a 16-year-old's
head after claiming she was threatened and repeatedly cursed as she
tried driving through her neighborhood.

It was a long complicated story, which had me sympathetic to the woman, but here's the bottom line.

"You don't get to claim self-defense when you're the aggressor,"

What's your opinion? Does it remind you of the Zimmerman case? Do you think it's somewhat common for gun owners to overstep their bounds like this, confronting people, admonishing them for perceived wrongdoing? When the tables are turned, they claim self-defense.

A single arrest has been made in the Tufano Amusements accidental
shooting incident, which occurred in April, and the case is now closed,
officials stated this week.

On Tuesday afternoon, Sean Cazimovski, 24, of Florida, turned himself
into the Cheshire Police Department for his involvement in the shooting,
which occurred on April 20. Cazimovski was charged with first degree
reckless endangerment and unlawful discharge of a firearm.

Apparently a group of men, who police said are all around the same age,
were drinking and handling guns when the shooting took place. Police
said everyone cooperated with the investigation. No more arrests are
forthcoming, Cheshire police said.

What's your opinion? Are those charges sufficient to make him a disqualified person? It may take more than that in gun-friendly Florida.

Bladen County District Attorney Jon David said in a news release
Wednesday afternoon that the death of James Ethan Bartley was "a tragic
event" for which no one could be held criminally responsible.

Ethan was shot in the side about 1:30 p.m. Nov. 25 while he and two
12-year-olds were squirrel hunting with a rifle they found. The gun
"inadvertently discharged" when a boy standing next to Ethan was holding
it as they stood side by side, David wrote in the release.

David said the case did not meet the criteria to
prosecute the gun's owner for failing to secure the weapon.

"For a person to be prosecuted for an offense, all elements of a
criminal charge must be satisfied," David wrote. "Accidents are not
generally punished as crimes, even severe accidents that lead to tragic
outcomes."

According to David's report, Ethan had left his relatives' home on
Soup Haire Road on Nov. 25 to play with the 12-year-olds next door. The
adults in the home left the children, who were playing video games, in
the care of an 18-year-old to go shopping.

Some time later, Ethan and the 12-year-olds found the unloaded rifle
under a blanket in a storage building behind the home. They also found
some ammunition and went into nearby woods to hunt squirrels.

David said no charges were brought
because the gun was stored outside the home, unloaded and under a
blanket; that the adults did not know the children had found it; and
that there was no sign children had previously looked for it.

This is a disgusting travesty of justice. What kind of flimsy justification is that, the gun was outside under a blanket? Is that supposed to make it secure? Is that supposed to eliminate the need for parental supervision?

Do you think it's safe to assume that the boys who went squirrel hunting by themselves had received safety instructions about proper gun handling? Sure they had, probably their entire lives. Then, since the adults had fulfilled their responsibility they were free to go shopping and let the boys go play by themselves.

In spite of whatever safety instructions those boys may have received, Rules were broken and one of them ended up dead, and most importantly, no adult has been held accountable.

The unmistakable sound of gunfire stirred the neighbors early Tuesday. Moments later, there was a knock at the front door.

They opened it to find three children from next door — at least one of
them shot and wounded, authorities said. The neighbors called 911,
grabbed a towel and tried to attend to the kids.

Then, the couple told deputies
later, a calm voice in the darkness summoned the three children back to
their home on Bright Avenue in Port St. John. It was their mother,
33-year-old Tonya Thomas.

The neighbors tried to stop the kids from returning home, according to Brevard County Sheriff's Lt. Tod Goodyear. But the kids walked back obediently. And once inside, Thomas apparently shot and killed them.

Sounds like another mentally ill lawful gun owner gone berserk. How many of these incidents do we need before something is done about it?

It should not be so easy to get a gun that people like Tonya Thomas can get one.

A city man faces criminal charges in a case that began when he allegedly shot himself in the leg.

Shawn Noisette, 28, told police he had been robbed at gunpoint. That caused police to investigate the incident.

Police determined that Noisette apparently shot himself with an
unregistered .22-caliber handgun while in his house on Pearl Street
while getting ready for work.

Noisette was charged with
fourth-degree criminal possession of a weapon, endangering the welfare
of a child and falsely reporting an incident, all misdemeanors.

All misdemeanors??!!! And that, only because he pissed off the police by lying to them.

Negligent discharges should be taken more seriously than they usually are. The gun-rights advocates are always pointing out that it's impossible to anticipate who is unfit to own guns and that we cannot take away their rights beforehand. Well, these people, these negligent-discharge people are proving themselves to be unfit. They should lose their rights to own guns. One strike you're out.

A man in his 20s was shot in the buttocks by a neighbor after a dispute over squatting in a vacant home. The neighbor, 66, heard noises next door in the vacant house and went to investigate.

“One of the doors looked like it was forced open,” Sgt. Cindi West said. “He found a guy in his 20s.”

That man refused to leave and the neighbor went back to his house and
armed himself with a shotgun, then returned to again tell the younger
man to leave, according to investigators. The younger man is not
believed to have lived there.

There was a struggle, and “apparently during the struggle the suspect
decided to take off running,” West said. “The homeowner tripped and
shot him in the butt.

“That’s what he said, he had an accidental discharge.”

The man in his 20s was taken to Harborview Medical Center where they
treated the birdshot wound. His injuries were not life-threatening.

Detectives from the Sheriff’s Office Major Crimes Unit arrived at the
scene just before 7 p.m. Neither the man in his 20s or the 66-year-old
were arrested, though West said the younger man may be arrested for
trespassing after he was treated at Harborview. Detectives were
investigating the older man’s story.

The vigilante, policing-the-neighborhood attitude of some gun owners needs to be discouraged, but unfortunately that doesn't seem to be happening in Washington. In fact, in this case it's the young squatter who will likely be charged.

Another fascinating aspect of this story is the similarity between the way this shooter claimed it was an accident and the way many shooters claim theirs was defensive.

Whenever the target of the shooting is a criminal, the so-called responsible gun owner can just about say anything he wants to get away with his own crimes. Naturally the pro-gun crowd denies this ever happens.

A Christine, N.D., man was transported to the hospital after accidentally shooting himself about 10:30 p.m. Monday.

Cory Robertsdahl, 48,
Christine, was transported to Essentia Health in Fargo by family members
after he accidentally shot himself in the right leg with a .22-caliber
weapon. According to the press release, his injury was believed to be
non-life threatening. He remains at the hospital at this time, said
investigating officer Steve Gjerdevig, Richland County Sheriff’s Office.

This incident remains under investigation by the Richland County Sheriff’s Office.

What's your opinion? Is there a fundamental difference between this type of negligence and that which results in someone getting killed or seriously injured? No, there isn't. The gravity of these incidents should not only be judged by the end result.

[the mother Jamie] Chaffin, already a convicted felon barred from
carrying a gun, pleaded guilty to two felony counts of unlawful
possession of a firearm and agreed in turn to testify against her
boyfriend, Douglas Bauer.

An
assault charge against Chaffin was dismissed as part of her plea deal,
but she faces 12 to 16 months in prison when sentenced following Bauer's
trial, now scheduled for July.

Bauer
remains charged with felony third-degree assault for what prosecutors
say was his role in negligently allowing the boy access to his gun. If
convicted, he faces up to five years in prison, said Kitsap County
Deputy Prosecutor Jeremy Morris.

An attorney for relatives of the wounded girl said the family was upset by the outcome of the mother's plea deal.

"Their
disappointment was based on the fact that the assault charge ... was
dismissed and the person who bore responsibility for the shooting of
their child was absolved of that responsibility by the plea bargain,"
lawyer Jeffery Campiche said. "The crime, as the Bowman family sees it,
was the horror of the discharge of a handgun in an elementary school
classroom, not the fact that a felon possessed a handgun."

That's exactly right, the fact that the gun was owned by felons should not be the determining factor. The fact that a kid got ahold of it should be the thing.
What's your opinion? Please leave a comment.

Police officers in Germany fired 85 bullets in 2011 in the
entire country while pursuing crminals; 49 of these were warning shots.
The police fired targeted shots at individuals 36 times, during which
15 people were wounded and six killed, according to statistics provided
by the Police College in Muenster.

Meanwhile the New York City police fired slightly fewer bullets - 84 bullets, to be exact - at one man, while their colleagues in Los Angeles fired 90 times at an unarmed teenager.
Still, there is far too little bloody mayhem in the United States to
satisfy the NRA; the organizaiton is pushing to allow concealed weapons
in schools, churches, hospitals, and even courtrooms.

What could possibly account for that staggering difference? Why do comparisons between the US and Switzerland as well as comparisons between the US and the UK abound, but you never hear anything about Germany? What's going on over there?

The National Rifle Association and the assorted far-right gun nuts who make up the gun lobby, as we recently pointed out,
really are creating an extremely problematic environment for any
post-election America in which Barack Obama has won re-election --
because, thanks to their fact-free and irresponsibly inflammatory
attacks on Obama, they've once again convinced a significant segment of
the American populace that Obama is secretly plotting to take their guns and their freedoms away.

It's so silly it's embarrassing, yet there have been over 50 million views.

One thing the video gets right is that young people who join the Marines often do so for less than patriotic and heroic motives. More often than not it's about running away in one form or another.

Then, a couple years later the conservative element in the country puts these mixed-up kids on a pedestal of jingoistic and patriotic red, white and blue. They're elevated to heights of honor, often praised with exaggeratedly serious platitudes like, "thank you for your service."

You can hear this very often on the pro-gun blogs. Some of the folks doing this are draft-dodgers and service-avoiders like Ted Nugent, that's real irony. Others are former servicemen themselves who've chosen to forget their original motives and relish all the wrong-placed admiration and praise.

The truth is there has not been an honorable and necessary reason to participate in the military for about 65 years, if then. Oftentimes, participation in this global system of abuse, this world-policing by the US, is actually immoral. Those who do so are often constrained by economic disadvantages, the result being that minorities and the poor are over-represented, suicides and other forms of self-abuse are more and more prevalent, and after service care is off the charts.

Troopers were called to the Towanda Memorial Hospital Sunday, for an incident that happened over the weekend.

Two brothers, aged 8 and 14 years old, were shooting cans with BB guns in their backyard on Mason Street, when the older boy shot the younger boy in the stomach.
The boys ran into the house to tell their mom.

After the 8-year-old complained he was having trouble breathing his parents took him to the emergency room.

X-rays reveal the BB went through his body, just missing his spine.
Troopers continue to investigate.

It's safe to assume that these boys had been instructed in basic gun safety, being from gun-friendly Pennsylvania and having been granted permission to play with the BB gun unsupervised. Yet, this is what happened.

This is what often happens when kids use guns. The only proper precaution is adult supervision, all the time, every time.

A two-year-old boy is in critical condition with a gunshot wound to
his head after a gun went off accidentally in a home on the city's east
side.

Police say toddler Di'rico Washington is being treated at a hospital
for head injuries. His baby sitter, 48-year-old Annette Jackson, is
hospitalized in stable condition after the bullet struck her hand.

Jackson's son, 19-year-old Ernest Crawford, was arrested for felonious assault and is being held in the city jail.

Police tell The Plain Dealer that Jackson's son and three
other people began arguing Sunday afternoon and that Jackson separated
them. Inside Jackson's house, Crawford's gun fired accidentally, going
through a wall and hitting his mother and the child.

What's your opinion? You don't think there's a disparity between your typical accident-prone white guy and the black folks in Cleveland, do you?

Felony charges sounds just right, but how many stories have we seen in which the whole thing is written off as an "accident?"

Monday, May 14, 2012

Gov. Mary Fallin said Saturday she will sign a bill into law that will allow Oklahomans with concealed handgun permits to carry their weapons in the open.

“I'm going to be signing that bill,” Fallin announced to 1,400 delegates at the Oklahoma Republican State Convention, drawing cheers and applause. “I've been waiting a long time.”

Oklahoma will become the 26th state to allow open carrying of handguns, she said.
“We believe it's a responsible piece of legislation that allows licensed gun owners to be able to open carry if they choose,”
Fallin, a Republican elected governor in 2010, said afterward. “If they choose not to, they don't have to."

My idea is the joke's on them. Open carry does more harm to the gun-rights movement than it does good. It shows them for the nuts and fanatics they ofter are.

Guns should not be verboten, that's another trick on the part of the gun-rights fanatics. We're not talking about banning guns. We're talking about removing the sacred and inviolable aspect of carrying a gun so that it can be reasonably controlled. Too many people prove themselves to be unfit and incapable of responsibly managing this activity, therefore restrictions are required. All the talk about "rights" interferes with that necessary process.

While the city council voted unanimously on April 17 in favor of a bill to ease restrictions on Second Amendment rights, Mayor Vincent Gray has
not signed the bill into law.

...gun owners are still forced to have their guns photographed and shot for
a ballistics test and pay to have an application document notarized.
Residents and nonresidents risk a felony charge for possessing
ammunition that is not in the same gauge and caliber as a registered gun.

Does that sound so tough? Are those requirements such that Washington D.C. is considered to have the toughest gun laws in the country?

This is one of the favorite ploys of the gun-rights argument: exaggeration. They love to feign outrage and pretend that reasonable restrictions like these are outrageous.

Three people were hospitalized Sunday morning after a fight spilled into the parking lot of a North Columbus club.

According to Columbus police, a fight broke out inside Club Polaris
at 8270 Sancus Blvd. involving a large group of men and women. During
the fight, police said that several people were stabbed with an unknown
weapon.

After the fight spilled into the parking lot, police said that a man went to a vehicle, retrieved a gun, and started shooting.

One man was shot in the leg and several vehicles were damaged.

This is the problem with the no-guns-in-bars rule. High-spirited young people have to resort to fists and knives and take it out into the parking lot before they can get to their guns. What kind of freedom is that?

Sunday, May 13, 2012

Hearing of Issa’s “plan to spend more of [his] time and our precious tax dollars on contempt charges against Attorney General
Eric Holder,” Maisch wrote, only reminded her of painful memories from
the “political games” following the Tucson shooting.

Holder was the “only one talking about the need for common sense gun
laws, including a better background check system and tougher laws to
fight gun trafficking,” she continued, according to the letter obtained
by POLITICO.

“While we cannot turn on our televisions without hearing about ‘Fast
& Furious,’ neither Congress nor the President have taken any action
to fix the system,” Maisch wrote in a letter to Issa and Oversight
Committee ranking member Elijah Cummings (D-Md.). “In the year and a
half since that horrible day, the failings of our legislators to take
even one single step to help prevent more senseless murders, is more
than a disappointment to us, it is a slap in our collective faces.”

What's your opinion? Could it be that all the attention placed on the Fast and Furious scandal is a diversion more than anything else?

And the short answer is that part of the foundation for keeping and bearing arms rests in laws that lend order to nature. These are laws
that God ordained and implemented just as certainly as he implemented
and ordained the moral law (the 10 Commandments). This point is
worth explaining because it’s fundamental to an understanding of how
our inalienable rights flow to us from God rather than from government.
As such, the foundation of those rights transcends government, which is
why the right to keep and bear arms “shall not be infringed.”

There are two sets of law authored and maintained by God: Divine Law, consisting of the 10 Commandments and the outworking of those commandments in the New Testament, and Natural Law,
consisting of the order intrinsic to nature and the universe around it.
We know Divine Law from reading the Bible, and we know aspects of
Natural Law because it is written upon our hearts and consciences. The
Apostle Paul indicated this in Romans 2:14-15: “When Gentiles, who
do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a
law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show
that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their
consciences also bearing witness.”

My response:

This is one of those “If you agree no explanation is necessary, if you don’t agree no explanation is possible” kinda things.

The way I look at it is this.

1. right to life 2. right to self-defense 3. right to own and carry a particular inanimate object called a gun.

The absurd jump from number two to number three takes the kind of spinning and justifying you gave us in this post.

Bravo.

What's your opinion? Do the Christian fundamentalist gun owners who push this nonsense have no concern for their atheist brothers-in-arms, or their Jewish friends?

What about that "shall not be infringed" nonsense? Isn't raising that to the level of "god-given" a bit silly when infringements already abound? Didn't the god-inspired Supreme Court already rule that "reasonable restrictions" are acceptable?

A blind man in New Jersey has won a two-year legal battle to keep his gun collection.

Morris County prosecutors claimed Steven Hopler was unfit to safely maintain his handguns, claiming he abuses alcohol and was taking an antidepressant when he accidentally shot himself in his Rockaway Township home while cleaning a pistol in 2008.

But the 49-year-old Hopler, who is blind because of complications from diabetes, denies abusing alcohol and has completed a firearms safety course. And a state judge sided with him in a ruling issued Friday.

The judge said Hopler can keep his gun permit and also ordered police to return the weapons they had seized after the accidental shooting.
A court in 1994 allowed Hopler to purchase firearms and shoot them under strict conditions.

I'm speechless at this bone-headed court ruling. Blindness itself should be a disqualifier, as should having shot himself negligently.

I wonder how long it will be before we see Mr. Hopler in the news again.

Authorities say the parents of a little girl wounded by her
3-year-old brother while they were left alone at home tried to claim the
accidental shooting was a drive-by.

Police say the couple told the children to walk down the
road before the man called 911, and instructed them to tell police it
was a drive-by gunshot Thursday evening. Police didn't believe the
children, and charged both parents with endangering children, tampering
with evidence, and obstructing official business.

The 7-year-old girl was wounded in the back, but police say she is expected to recover.

What stupid parents. If they'd only fessed up to the "accident" they'd be home right now watching professional wrestling. It's lying to the cops that'll get you every time.