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River bet larger or x. Why is everyone downbetting rivers and level themselves like this? You’re most likely either going to overfold or overcall, both of which is hugely -EV and much worse than just bet big and fold to a raise or x.

Ap you cant go wrong folding river but if his overall range spazzes bc of your bet sizing, you lost a ton of chips in ev

I would bet this flop. $80 or so. Villians have a lot of pair + draw in their range. There are lots of bad turn cards for your hand. Plus your range smashes this board. The worst hand you can have here is like AJ or 99.

I don't think you can bet this river. I would check call. I would expect a hand like Q9/Q8 to value bet river if you check. Some 2 pair hands should value bet as well if you check river, but I am ruling out K9 and AK mostly (those hands would at least contemplate a raise on the turn). You may induce bluffs from Ax, a random 9, and busted clubs.

I don't think you can bet this river. I would check call. I would expect a hand like Q9/Q8 to value bet river if you check. Some 2 pair hands should value bet as well if you check river, but I am ruling out K9 and AK mostly (those hands would at least contemplate a raise on the turn). You may induce bluffs from Ax, a random 9, and busted clubs.

I think you're on the right track.
I called and V showed QQ.

A terrible read but the thought behind was:
1) QQ/JJ/TT would have not limp/call pre.
2) Even if, I would expect some action either on the flop(bet) or turn(reraise) on this wet board.
3) same for AK, K9, 89
4) Therefore I put him on a missed draw AJd, ATd J9d..with little showdown value.

The hands that called limp overcalled pre that you beat on this river are bluffs from A rag type hands or suited connectors, that is assuming he is capable of bluff raising the river. His river raises are strongly weighted for value here. Combos of QJ, QT, JT, 89 in his limp overcall range. AP fold.

A terrible read but the thought behind was:
1) QQ/JJ/TT would have not limp/call pre.
2) Even if, I would expect some action either on the flop(bet) or turn(reraise) on this wet board.
3) same for AK, K9, 89
4) Therefore I put him on a missed draw AJd, ATd J9d..with little showdown value.

any thoughts? Is V's line normal?

No, but river raises are nutted so fold unless you have a nutty hand.

I wouldn't say QQ/JJ and especially TT never limp/call pre.

Sometimes people do dumb **** with strong hands to trap, even if it is a terrible board to trap

Most people don't bluff raise missed draws at this stakes especially vs a "big" river bet.

I think the villain should have put a raise in on the turn, but that's just me. He got lucky you were as strong as you were and got some $ in on the river. Also your pot amounts don't add up. Did you mean $265 on the river?

I think once you bet and the villain raises, that's a huge red flag. I notice very few river raises with air in those live games. Betting puts you in a gross spot. I prefer to play my KK more like KQ after the insta-call on the turn. The pot is big enough to check and seduce a bluff from the missed draw hands.

Of course this is after I've thought about the hand for 5-10 minutes. Sitting at the table I probably don't go through most of this analysis. My default would have most likely been to bet flop and try to pick up a read.

A terrible read but the thought behind was:
1) QQ/JJ/TT would have not limp/call pre.
2) Even if, I would expect some action either on the flop(bet) or turn(reraise) on this wet board.
3) same for AK, K9, 89
4) Therefore I put him on a missed draw AJd, ATd J9d..with little showdown value.