He's not an exciting athlete which is probably why people don't talk about him. He's your typical try-hard white guy that we joke about. Slow 40, boring workout numbers, production at Stanford was good but not eye-popping. I think he'll be a solid player in the NFL but I don't expect him to start for a team for 10+ years or anything, much less be a Pro Bowler or All Pro.

I'll take production over athleticism 8/10 times I'm picking in the first round.

And just because he's white it doesn't mean he's completely unathletic, either.

I feel as if his floor is very high. His floor is something like Aaron Schoebel and his ceiling is Clay Matthews.

You could do alot worse than getting a solid OLB/DE in the 2nd round or later that will play for you for 10+ years and give you 7-9 sacks per year, and solid run defense, which is what I feel Thomas will do in the NFL.

He could eventually work his way into being a starter at the next level as an 3-4 ILB or as a SAM 4-3 LBer. Good size, and strength, solid motor, sheds his blockers well and he is a solid tackler. However, he lacks great range, is weak in pass coverage and is likely only a 2 down defender. He has little burst going downfield.

If you are talking about him as a first rounder, your wasting your breath, 2 down LB's don't get picked that high.

And nobody really cares about your theories on production over athletic talent, it is the combination of both that makes a prospect a solid pro not one or the other.

He's not an exciting athlete which is probably why people don't talk about him. He's your typical try-hard white guy that we joke about. Slow 40, boring workout numbers, production at Stanford was good but not eye-popping. I think he'll be a solid player in the NFL but I don't expect him to start for a team for 10+ years or anything, much less be a Pro Bowler or All Pro.

Let's compare two players - Jarvis Jones and Chase Thomas -

Jarvis Jones put up some pretty pedestrian workout numbers at his pro day and has medical concerns and his numbers would show he is not an exciting athlete. He had very productive tape.

Chase Thomas is almost identical to Jones physically. Both had very similar careers and production. Both had similar workout numbers. Both were the best defenders and playmakers on their respective teams defense. Chase Thomas does not have the medical concerns that Jones has.

With Jarvis Jones everyone is making excuses - saying to go look at the tape and production and saying he is a first rounder. With Chase Thomas people are not even mentioning the tape - just writing him off as a "Try hard white guy".

Jarvis Jones put up some pretty pedestrian workout numbers at his pro day and has medical concerns and his numbers would show he is not an exciting athlete. He had very productive tape.

Chase Thomas is almost identical to Jones physically. Both had very similar careers and production. Both had similar workout numbers. Both were the best defenders and playmakers on their respective teams defense. Chase Thomas does not have the medical concerns that Jones has.

With Jarvis Jones everyone is making excuses - saying to go look at the tape and production and saying he is a first rounder. With Chase Thomas people are not even mentioning the tape - just writing him off as a "Try hard white guy".

You sir are wrong and a bit racist!

Yes, their workout numbers are very similar. And I would suggest Thomas will be a better run defender, or has at least shown more in run defense, than Jones. But you are conveniently leaving out the part where Jones had 28 sacks in two years playing in the SEC while Thomas had 27.5 in four years, playing in the PAC 12. It's not an excuse, it's a fact and you tried to leave it out like it didn't matter. It completely invalidates your argument.

I'll take production over athleticism 8/10 times I'm picking in the first round.

And just because he's white it doesn't mean he's completely unathletic, either.

I feel as if his floor is very high. His floor is something like Aaron Schoebel and his ceiling is Clay Matthews.

You could do alot worse than getting a solid OLB/DE in the 2nd round or later that will play for you for 10+ years and give you 7-9 sacks per year, and solid run defense, which is what I feel Thomas will do in the NFL.

This bull-ish again?? LMAO!!! Matthews and Schoebel WERE athletic, so maybe you are the one who is stereotyping.

As far as your delusional "college production trumps all" philosophy, let me ask you a question. Do you know who the all time leading tackler in NCAA history is? Tim McGarigle. He was drafted in the 7th round and two years later he was an elementary school teacher. Such a shame all the production went to waste, huh Achey?

Yes, their workout numbers are very similar. And I would suggest Thomas will be a better run defender, or has at least shown more in run defense, than Jones. But you are conveniently leaving out the part where Jones had 28 sacks in two years playing in the SEC while Thomas had 27.5 in four years, playing in the PAC 12. It's not an excuse, it's a fact and you tried to leave it out like it didn't matter. It completely invalidates your argument.

Not really. Thomas's production validates his value IMO as a second or third round pick. The production does not change the fact they are both the same type of athlete. Chase Thomas had consistently good production in the PAC-12 and was the best defender on a good defense just like Jarvis Jones was.

Sure he played against zomggzz SECZZZ teamzz and most of them ******* sucked. 7 of his sacks came in two rivalry games vs Florida. Other than that the most impressive sacks are when he played Bama. Ole Miss, Miss St, Tenn, FLorida, Auburn and Kentuck were all ****** SEC TEAMS in 2011. Missouri was not all that great, Vandy was decent, Carolina was good, Auburn sucks and Alabama speaks for itself in 2012. Point is their are ****** teams in the SEC believe it or not and that is where he got most of his production from yet everyone just says SEC and stops there like that is where the conversation ends.

Not really. Thomas's production validates his value IMO as a second or third round pick. The production does not change the fact they are both the same type of athlete. Chase Thomas had consistently good production in the PAC-12 and was the best defender on a good defense just like Jarvis Jones was.

Sure he played against zomggzz SECZZZ teamzz and most of them ******* sucked. 7 of his sacks came in two rivalry games vs Florida. Other than that the most impressive sacks are when he played Bama. Ole Miss, Miss St, Tenn, FLorida, Auburn and Kentuck were all ****** SEC TEAMS in 2011. Missouri was not all that great, Vandy was decent, Carolina was good, Auburn sucks and Alabama speaks for itself in 2012. Point is their are ****** teams in the SEC believe it or not and that is where he got most of his production from yet everyone just says SEC and stops there like that is where the conversation ends.

On a sidenote i have been saying that Florida offensive line was atrocius.

Not really. Thomas's production validates his value IMO as a second or third round pick. The production does not change the fact they are both the same type of athlete. Chase Thomas had consistently good production in the PAC-12 and was the best defender on a good defense just like Jarvis Jones was.

Sure he played against zomggzz SECZZZ teamzz and most of them ******* sucked. 7 of his sacks came in two rivalry games vs Florida. Other than that the most impressive sacks are when he played Bama. Ole Miss, Miss St, Tenn, FLorida, Auburn and Kentuck were all ****** SEC TEAMS in 2011. Missouri was not all that great, Vandy was decent, Carolina was good, Auburn sucks and Alabama speaks for itself in 2012. Point is their are ****** teams in the SEC believe it or not and that is where he got most of his production from yet everyone just says SEC and stops there like that is where the conversation ends.

If you are arguing that the PAC 12 is a stronger football conference then I don't know what else to tell you. But the SEC point was minor compared to the point that you're still ignoring, which is that Jones earned more sacks in two fewer years of play. That is the main point. He took half the time to get more sacks. He's a better pass rusher. That's why he's a better prospect, that's why he's talked about more, that's why he'll be drafted day 1 while THOMASZZZ (look I can add Zs to the end of words too) will be taken day 2.

If you are arguing that the PAC 12 is a stronger football conference then I don't know what else to tell you. But the SEC point was minor compared to the point that you're still ignoring, which is that Jones earned more sacks in two fewer years of play. That is the main point. He took half the time to get more sacks. He's a better pass rusher. That's why he's a better prospect, that's why he's talked about more, that's why he'll be drafted day 1 while THOMASZZZ (look I can add Zs to the end of words too) will be taken day 2.

My point was that the SEC has crap teams and that is where most of his production came from since you brought the SEC angle to it. Sure he put up better stats but he played against alot of bad teams to accrue those stats. It's easy to judge based on stats that Jones was better but how did the UGA/Stanford schemes differ? How was each player used? Did Jones have a green light to go after the QB more then Thomas did?

So I think you are missing my point.

I'm glad you can put z's on the end of your words too you witty clever man you.

This bull-ish again?? LMAO!!! Matthews and Schoebel WERE athletic, so maybe you are the one who is stereotyping.

As far as your delusional "college production trumps all" philosophy, let me ask you a question. Do you know who the all time leading tackler in NCAA history is? Tim McGarigle. He was drafted in the 7th round and two years later he was an elementary school teacher. Such a shame all the production went to waste, huh Achey?

Again, you can fill a list of productive college players and the majority will have been nothings in the NFL, because the majority of draftees become nothing in the NFL.

However, the list of top-50 sack artists in NFL history is filled with guys that *were* productive in college.

You might not become an elite player if you're productive in college, but you sure are NOT going to become an elite player if you WEREN'T productive in college.

My point was that the SEC has crap teams and that is where most of his production came from since you brought the SEC angle to it. Sure he put up better stats but he played against alot of bad teams to accrue those stats. It's easy to judge based on stats that Jones was better but how did the UGA/Stanford schemes differ? How was each player used? Did Jones have a green light to go after the QB more then Thomas did?

So I think you are missing my point.

I'm glad you can put z's on the end of your words too you witty clever man you.

Keep moving the goalposts. Thomas isn't the same level of prospect and you know it.

If you are arguing that the PAC 12 is a stronger football conference then I don't know what else to tell you. But the SEC point was minor compared to the point that you're still ignoring, which is that Jones earned more sacks in two fewer years of play. That is the main point. He took half the time to get more sacks. He's a better pass rusher. That's why he's a better prospect, that's why he's talked about more, that's why he'll be drafted day 1 while THOMASZZZ (look I can add Zs to the end of words too) will be taken day 2.

well if the SEC was so great, Jones was surrounded by more talent, and that is a fact, and there are crappy teams in the SEC and they had the second best team in the nation. You can't deny that he was surrounded by more talent than Chase Thomas. There is a big difference between their 40's. Chase ran his at the combine, he got it down to a 4.8 at his pro day. Jones ran a 4.9something at his PRO DAY, which means he might not have cracked 5 seconds at the combine, which is probably why he didn't participate.

Production doesn't always translate to the NFL, but if you look at the pass rushers who had success in the SEC, there seems to be a higher bust rate.

Tim McGarigle was more known for his rushing ability in high school and slotted to the linebacker position like so many other linebackers and asked to put on the weight. There are many other linebackers that were productive and said wouldn't produce at the next level, like James Laurinitis, Paul Poz etc.

I believe he also had some injury concerns, quite a few if I am not mistaken. He didn't have bad measurables, 240, 4.7 but I think there were some medical concerns....similar to Jarvis Jones, except I think it was his knees and hamstrings, that he continued to play on despite them not being 100 percent. There is usually more to the story to a player with great production and solid measurables that didn't produce in the NFL than just that he sucked, its not black and white, there are other factors involved.

Batsandgats, you are forgetting that Stanford had a great defense and there were plenty of good players around him. That "Jarvis Jones had a great defense around him" arguement doesn't really work because Stanford's defense was legit as well.

That being said I am a Chase Thomas fan. Not trying to stick with the white typcasting but he reminds me of Rob Ninkovich in that he is mainly a linebacker but he can put his hand in the dirt if you need him to. He will make plays and probably get 6-8 sacks a year, not going do dominate in any facet of the game but a well rounded solid player.

well no crap he won't be picked up before Jones, I don't think anyone is arguing that, but I think Thomas will have a better career in the long run

^that may be the case, being similar to Rob, but I just don't see Jones doing any better, most probably less when you add the medical concerns, which means I don't believe he should be a 1st round pick.

Whats wrong with getting a very solid player in the late 2nd or 3rd round? I wouldn't touch Jones in the first two rounds. When you start getting to the 3rd round you are lucky to get a starter in most cases, of course there are exceptions to the rules, but the chances go down.

and yes, Stanford had a good d, but are they really on the same level of Georgia's? I mean if the SEC is so great and everything. Also, did they have the same roles? Chase was much better in the run game but still had plenty flashes of being a good pass rusher.

Well if you're not arguing he's a better prospect then I don't even know what your argument really is. Or are you saying Thomas IS a better prospect, but for some unknown reason NFL teams will pick the worse prospect anyway? Maybe you have secret knowledge NFL teams don't have and only you and a select few know the real truth? Gosh you guys should sell your advanced scouting services. Poor dumb NFL teams, picking bad players early but letting good players go until the 2nd and 3rd round. How have they even kept this whole pro football thing going so long?

Just that one is overrated and one is underrated. Many people agree that Jones is overrated and do not want not want to get him early and then sec fanboys come out and say "well look at his production, its much different, it was in the SEC!", but little is spoken of Chase Thomas, who was considered a much higher pick last year, and then his 4.91 at the combine drops him, yet a poor pro day and medical concerns doesn't seem to affect Jones at all. I don't see the reasoning behind it.

Yeah like it doesn't happen every year, where a bunch of guys in the first bust and guys that go in the later rounds wind up being good players in the NFL. Scouts never get it wrong.

I mean Knowshon Moreno is going to light the NFL on fire, look at the production in the NFL, forget about Shonn Greene's stats, he doesn't wow you in any area. Yes he hasn't been a great NFL back but he has been consistent with a few 1k seasons. Its a little different since rbs have a shorter shelf life, but I would have taken a few years of consistency over Moreno, who I stated from day 1 didn't deserve to go in the first.

Aaron Curry is the most sure prospect in the draft, lets take him ahead of Brian Cushing and James Laurinitis (who was dropped down signficantly from where he should of went), Of course these guys were better prospects overall than Jones/Thomas, but same situation.

Lets take the most NFL ready receiver in the 2nd in Brian Robiskie and let Mike Wallace slide to the third, although he is more comparable to his own teammate Hartline who I thought to be the better one on the team, and he has done better in the Nfl but dropped to the 4th and now you will have a great number 1 and a solid number 2 for the Dolphins while Robiskie is doing what now? lets take Larry English who put up 10.5 sacks against lesser competition over Clay Matthews, Connor Barwin and Paul Kruger, because English has so much more upside even though he had similiar measurables to Barwin and Kruger. Which guys have improved over the years?

hindsight is 20/20, but a small fraction of these guys you can tell. I couldn't have predicted all of those guys would be better, just that I thought a few of them were overrated and a few were underrated. I've never been better than the scouts and never claimed to but I have picked a few underrated guys that have performed better than those ranked higher than them.

The main point is scouts get it wrong all the time, is it a stretch to say that these two guys offer about the same thing as far as an nfl career.Mid 2nd to 3rd round is where you should start overlooking the athleticism and focus on the production. Neither have the ideal athleticism + production to be 1st rounders imo, but they offer good value later on. Its mainly about taking solid prospects (even though I mentioned a few guys who were great prospects like Matthews and Cushing and of course I thought Curry was a great prospect) too early when there are guys that can offer similar value later on, we have already seen the philosophy change with runningbacks, I don't see it should be different from other positions.

I'll take production over athleticism 8/10 times I'm picking in the first round.

And just because he's white it doesn't mean he's completely unathletic, either.

I feel as if his floor is very high. His floor is something like Aaron Schoebel and his ceiling is Clay Matthews.

You could do alot worse than getting a solid OLB/DE in the 2nd round or later that will play for you for 10+ years and give you 7-9 sacks per year, and solid run defense, which is what I feel Thomas will do in the NFL.

His floor is a lot lower than Schobel, that's silly. Its at least Ninkovich if not lower.

As for your opening line, in the 1st and 2nd round, you look for both ideally.

I'll take production over athleticism 8/10 times I'm picking in the first round.

And just because he's white it doesn't mean he's completely unathletic, either.

I feel as if his floor is very high. His floor is something like Aaron Schoebel and his ceiling is Clay Matthews.

You could do alot worse than getting a solid OLB/DE in the 2nd round or later that will play for you for 10+ years and give you 7-9 sacks per year, and solid run defense, which is what I feel Thomas will do in the NFL.

If that were true he would be the unquestioned #1 overall pick of this draft.

Jarvis Jones put up some pretty pedestrian workout numbers at his pro day and has medical concerns and his numbers would show he is not an exciting athlete. He had very productive tape.

Chase Thomas is almost identical to Jones physically. Both had very similar careers and production. Both had similar workout numbers. Both were the best defenders and playmakers on their respective teams defense. Chase Thomas does not have the medical concerns that Jones has.

Although I agree with the point you're trying to get across,but I wouldn't say close to similar workout numbers I would say Chase Thomas had better workout numbers, especially when you look at the shuttle and 3 cone, 4.8 at his pro day (shuttle and 3 cone times from combine although his broad and vertical weren't much different), 4.31 shuttle and 7.17 3 cone, 9 9 broad and 33 1/2 inch vertical compared to Jones with 4.92 40, 4.69 shuttle (poor) and a 7.43 3 cone drill, 9 3 broad jump and a 30 1/2 vertical. I would say Thomas has better quickness than Jones.

Although I agree with the point you're trying to get across,but I wouldn't say close to similar workout numbers I would say Chase Thomas had better workout numbers, especially when you look at the shuttle and 3 cone, 4.8 at his pro day (shuttle and 3 cone times from combine although his broad and vertical weren't much different), 4.31 shuttle and 7.17 3 cone, 9 9 broad and 33 1/2 inch vertical compared to Jones with 4.92 40, 4.69 shuttle (poor) and a 7.43 3 cone drill, 9 3 broad jump and a 30 1/2 vertical. I would say Thomas has better quickness than Jones.

Im going to say Jones is the better player by a small margine but those numbers for Chase have me thinking Seattle in round 3. Much appreciated.