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Ellapennella 5,517

Ellapennella
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Note that this is coming from one of the most progressive voices online:

You know as well as anyone here that I despise Trump, and Trump is undoubtedly one of if not the most scandalous President we've ever had in US history. However Obama's report card is hardly the cleanest report card on Earth.

Granted, most of the right-wing attacks against the Obama administration are BS (mainly because they agree with a lot of the scandals actually, so they just make up other s**t like the whole 'birtherism' nonsense). Although there are a number of legitimate scandalous things that happened under the Obama administration, and it's not good for progressives to keep pretending otherwise for partisan reasons. We need to stand on principles above party.

Do you have any real claims to back up your accusations about President Trump?Or is this just fake news? Hillary Clinton was the first to start the birther claims about Obama.I think Obama was groomed by an anti American party. I'm on the side of individuals who want to have America remain as leader of the free world.

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Ellapennella 5,517

Ellapennella
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Then let me ask you for example, what's your opinion of Edward Snowden? Did Obama do right by trying to prosecute him for whistleblowing?

I don't disagree with a thing you said. By comparison, Trump is undoubtedly the most corrupt President we've had.

I'm simply saying that Obama wasn't perfect. There were definite flaws, and it's not good to deny them. It makes you appear like you're only anti-Trump for partisan reasons as opposed to standing on principle.

How can you justify what you stated about President Trump being the most corrupt President we've ever had ? I'm confused about why you even would say that, can you explain why you said it?

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Ellapennella 5,517

Ellapennella
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Ironic really, as it’s a piece saying “look at all this bad **** that happened under Obama”. I suspect it’ll be spun as “heaven help us what it’s like now under Darth Trump”.

Seriously, shall we compare their records thus far? Some say that Trump is heaven sent at this time to help America & those that don't like what he's doing well I doubt that they're praying to God anyway.

Only so long as you childishly deem any political party other than your own 'anti-American'.

1 hour ago, Ellapennella said:

I'm on the side of individuals who want to have America remain as leader of the free world.

I'm on the side of those who humbly accept the statistical fact that America isn't the greatest nation on earth, and that we should seek to join the international community in solidarity with our comrades. In short: We should view ourselves as equals to other nations and attempt to form an egalitarian global society.

This concept of 'American Exceptionalism' is really just propagandized code for 'Imperialistic American Supremacy'. For too long have we pretended that the rules don't apply to us, but they apply to the rest of the world. So long as one nation seeks to rule over all others, we will never achieve world peace.

1 hour ago, Ellapennella said:

How can you justify what you stated about President Trump being the most corrupt President we've ever had ? I'm confused about why you even would say that, can you explain why you said it?

Because the facts lay it out plain as day sista. (check the links above)

I'd say most Trump supporters acknowledge his corruption, but just ignore it and/or deflect to: "butwhatabout Obama!?" or some such nonsense. Others acknowledge it and just don't care. But if you genuinely believe that he hasn't the slightest bit of corruption or scandal surrounding him, then honey you're about as hopelessly tribalistic as they come. You're either horrendously misinformed or outright delusional.

Why do you suppose that he sent his people out to lie on nation television to the world when the uprising in the Middle East occurred?

Because his handlers told him too. Honestly, Obama was always barely able to speak in full sentences when there wasn't a teleprompter around. If he really was some sort of evil genius mastermind that did all this on his own,, then the world truly is an idiocracy.

18 minutes ago, Aquila King said:

This concept of 'American Exceptionalism' is really just propagandized code for 'Imperialistic American Supremacy'.

No it isn't, and your Teachers ought to be skinned alive for making you think so.

our exceptionalism stems from a system where social class and family connections did NOT assure success for the aristocrats, but where personal merits and hard work counted more towards success than treachery and skullduggery.

A novel concept when introduced, thus the "exception" to the rest of the world, and something that even the Communists have never been able to imitate. In fact, things in those countries always seem to be the reverse of that (the Hereditary Monarchies of Cuba and North Korea, for examples) and thus all the envy and angst.

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Aquila King
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Aquila King
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Some wish to be the sun, so they can brighten everyone's day. I wish to be the moon, which shines down on you in your darkest hour.

The facts are clear as day. If you want to keep pretending that Donny's a good boy, then have at it.

Honeslty, at this point to deny Trump's corruption is like denying the holocaust. It's all just a bunch of incredibly inconvenient coincidences I suppose.

No Aquila King. The facts are NOT "clear as day". Have you READ the vox article when you posted it ?

It is ALL hypothetical. It suggests a "risk" that President Trump "might" be subject to conflicts of interest. It then lists a number of case studies ... but they are ALL hypothesis, with a heavy dash of innuendo.

If you can't see this, then I fear your objectivity is fatally flawed. In this context, your final paragraph - about "... denying the holocaust" is both offensive, and highly ironic.

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Aquila King
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Some wish to be the sun, so they can brighten everyone's day. I wish to be the moon, which shines down on you in your darkest hour.

No it isn't, and your Teachers ought to be skinned alive for making you think so.

No they didn't. In fact I had it out with them in class numerous times because most of my social studies teachers in school were conservative.

I came to that conclusion on my own. Sorry, but the American propaganda for whatever reason didn't affect me.

10 minutes ago, AnchorSteam said:

our exceptionalism stems from a system where social class and family connections did NOT assure success for the aristocrats, but where personal merits and hard work counted more towards success than treachery and skullduggery.

This is so incredibly divorced from reality it's absolutely unreal.

The Walton family alone who owns Walmart possesses the same amount of wealth as roughly the bottom 50% of people in America. And the ones in charge are his kids and grandkids who simply inherited the wealth, not worked for it. You seriously think that the grandkids of Sam Walton who inherited their billions from their granddad and now sit on their ass and don't do s**t actually worked for it?

What about Paris Hilton? Do you really think she works harder than some less-than minimum wage worker out on a farm working two jobs and barely make enough money to survive? What about factory workers who work their buns off day in and day out with backbreaking physical labor working 10-12 hour shifts? You're telling me Paris Hilton earned through her work the ability to sit on her ass and do nothing in the life of luxury?

Some of the hardest working people I've ever known are some of the poorest in the country. You conservatives hate welfare for the impoverished, expecting them all to work and contribute, but you're perfectly fine with the mega-rich handing down their wealth to their kids so they don't have to lift a finger the rest of their lives to contribute at all.

A novel concept when introduced, thus the "exception" to the rest of the world, and something that even the Communists have never been able to imitate. In fact, things in those countries always seem to be the reverse of that (the Hereditary Monarchies of Cuba and North Korea, for examples) and thus all the envy and angst.

And yet again, you compare the US to Communist nations and say "See? The US is better than them!" Essentially building up a straw man argument I'm not making, only to knock it down.

Of course we're better than Communist nations, I'm not advocating for that. I'm advocating for a Social Democracy, and I'm getting damn tired of repeating myself here.

The Walton family alone who owns Walmart possesses the same amount of wealth as roughly the bottom 50% of people in America.

Wasn't Sam Walton great? He started with nothing, asked all his friends in town to invest into an Idea and now those people all have stock and share the wealth. That is the American dream everyone keeps talking about.

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AnchorSteam 2,563

AnchorSteam
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"If you’re going to tell people the truth, you better make them laugh; otherwise, they’ll kill you."
-George Bernard Shaw

No, it only seems that way if you compare american to an absolutely perfect Utopia that never existed... instead of the Real World

Quote

The Walton family alone who owns Walmart possesses the same amount of wealth as roughly the bottom 50% of people in America. And the ones in charge are his kids and grandkids who simply inherited the wealth, not worked for it. You seriously think that the grandkids of Sam Walton who inherited their billions from their granddad and now sit on their ass and don't do s**t actually worked for it?

He gave it to his family members, I guess they have a good relationship in that family.

So what?

Quote

What about Paris Hilton?

Dafuq? Really, Parasite Hilton is your idea of a typicall American?

.... must be some alternate universe thing.

Quote

Some of the hardest working people I've ever known are some of the poorest in the country. You conservatives hate welfare for the impoverished, expecting them all to work and contribute, but you're perfectly fine with the mega-rich handing down their wealth to their kids so they don't have to lift a finger the rest of their lives to contribute at all.

No Aquila King. The facts are NOT "clear as day". Have you READ the vox article when you posted it ?

It is ALL hypothetical. It suggests a "risk" that President Trump "might" be subject to conflicts of interest. It then lists a number of case studies ... but they are ALL hypothesis, with a heavy dash of innuendo.

If you can't see this, then I fear your objectivity is fatally flawed. In this context, your final paragraph - about "... denying the holocaust" is both offensive, and highly ironic.

Do you in the least bit understand what a 'conflict of interest' even is?

Google Definition:

con·flict of in·ter·est

noun

noun: conflict of interest; plural noun: conflicts of interest

a situation in which the concerns or aims of two different parties are incompatible.

"the conflict of interest between elected officials and corporate lobbyists"

a situation in which a person is in a position to derive personal benefit from actions or decisions made in their official capacity.

"Watson quit his job after questions about a possible conflict of interest"

A conflict of interest doesn't mean that a person absolutely has to be acting in their own best interest, it means that they are in a position of power in which they are highly inclined to do so.

For instance, nepotism doesn't mean that it's impossible for you to objectively treat your children who work under you the exact same way you would other employees. It means that the mere fact that they are your children and they work under you means that they are far more likely to be treated differently then other employees, be it subconsciously or otherwise. That's why nepotism laws exist. They don't exist simply because absolutely everyone who ever employs their family members gives their family members special treatment. They exist because putting someone in that kind of position over a family member makes them much more inclined to give said family member preferential treatment. Therefore nepotism is illegal. THAT is a conflict of interest.

There are numerous Trump businesses and business dealings that exist in foreign governments that under his current position of power makes Trump highly inclined to act in his own best interest. We're talking potentially billions of dollars here that he hopes to gain. You seriously don't think billions of extra dollars is a worthy enough incentive to deem it a conflict of interest?

You're essentially saying that he has many numerous incredibly high incentives in which to personally profit here upwards into the billions, and you're telling me just to trust him with it because he could simply potentially do it?

Again, if that's really the argument you're making, then I don't think you in the least bit understand what a conflict of interest or government corruption even is.