In Canada there are two kinds if gun licenses: non-restricted and restricted. Restricted is for the more dangerous weapons, and you have to pass a tougher test.

We already have licenses for dogs, why don't we have a restricted license for the physically more dangerous breeds. We won't have to destroy/outright ban dangerous breeds, and morons will no longer be able to keep them.

punishing the owners is probably the best bet to limit the population of dogs who are owned by shiatbags who abuse them and make them mean.

I own a pittbull black lab mix I got from the pound, that's pretty much all they had, he's an old man now but in his 13 years with us he has never shown any sign of being aggressive to anyone or animal. I also own a lot of acreage and live in a rural area. A perfect dog around livestock because they are hearty and can get knocked around a bit. Not a good dog where hundreds/thousands of people are all packed in projects or suburbs.

Beginning of clip: In eight years, sixteen fatalities from dog attacks.

To be fair, it doesn't say that all of the attacks are from pit bulls/bull terriers, but, yeah, pit bulls are farkin' dangerous. It has now been bred into many of the lineages of this breed's animals. Pits ae the main reason that I carry concelaed, not so much to save myself (I'm large and can pull up a pretty fierce command voice), but for the little kids or females, possibly smaller men, who might become the target of a pit or other large-prey killing canine breed.

reveal101: ...We already have licenses for dogs, why don't we have a restricted license for the physically more dangerous breeds. We won't have to destroy/outright ban dangerous breeds, and morons will no longer be able to keep them.

That won't work because people think that dachshunds are cute sausage dogs.

reveal101:We already have licenses for dogs, why don't we have a restricted license for the physically more dangerous breeds. We won't have to destroy/outright ban dangerous breeds, and morons will no longer be able to keep them.

Problem would be getting naive dog owners to admit their little snookums is dangerous in the first place.

They go on and on about how breeding brought out such impressive behavior in various dog breeds, but then tell you just because pit bulls were bred to kill doesn't mean they're violent.

Did Subby read the article or watch the video? Where does it say that pit bulls or bull terriers are guide dogs?

Anyway, any dog can be potentially dangerous or vicious. I've seen plenty of big dogs like Rottweilers and German Shepherds that are big babies, then I saw my friend get bit in the face by a West Highland Terrier. Mind you, she did surprise the little guy by picking him up and kissing him, when he bit her. I've never seen anything so fast, I didn't know she was bitten until she had her hand on her cheek and I saw the blood. It's all in how any dogs are raised and how you treat them. And if a dog has been proven to be vicious, any breed, and has attacked anyone, it should be destroyed and the owners fined.

I've met some Pits who are working dogs. They are often used as balance/support dogs, where they walk beside their partner, keeping them vertical. When the person wants to sit or rise from a chair, the dogs stabilize them so they won't fall.

AverageAmericanGuy:the_foo: AverageAmericanGuy: djrfark: My wife and I actually train pit bull service dogs. It really opens peoples eyes when the dog clamps down on their neck and shakes them like a rag doll.

FTFY

You sure are concerned about a lot of things.

How can I not be with all the suffering in this world??

Since you were so spot on with your birth control knowledge in the other thread, it makes me more inclined to trust your opinion here.

reveal101:In Canada there are two kinds if gun licenses: non-restricted and restricted. Restricted is for the more dangerous weapons, and you have to pass a tougher test.

We already have licenses for dogs, why don't we have a restricted license for the physically more dangerous breeds. We won't have to destroy/outright ban dangerous breeds, and morons will no longer be able to keep them.

--You are assuming that the MORONS you speak of will comply with the law.

Pit Bulls may be cute but they can and will turn on you in a second. One of my good friends, a veterinarian, has always raised pit bulls. Her oldest bit her nose off without any warning whatsoever. Don't pretend pit bulls are not dangerous animals. The only reason anyone gets a pit bull is for the "badass" factor.

lantawa:Beginning of clip: In eight years, sixteen fatalities from dog attacks.

To be fair, it doesn't say that all of the attacks are from pit bulls/bull terriers, but, yeah, pit bulls are farkin' dangerous. It has now been bred into many of the lineages of this breed's animals. Pits ae the main reason that I carry concelaed, not so much to save myself (I'm large and can pull up a pretty fierce command voice), but for the little kids or females, possibly smaller men, who might become the target of a pit or other large-prey killing canine breed.

...seriously?

You do realize that pit bulls were bred as nursing animals and designed to eliminate aggression towards humans, to the point where any that showed human aggression were killed? "Oh dear me, they're dangerous around THE CHILDREN oh no..." They were NURSEDOGS, bred to nurseguard children and infants, due to their incredible calmness and tolerance towards kids and insane devotion to their owners and charges, the same trait that makes them dangerous ONLY when their owners are worthless shiatbags. Even the breeds which were bred to fight had human aggression bred out of them, as organized fighting required the human owners to literally be in the fight with the dogs as the fight went on.

Normal pit bulls, without shiatbag owners, are rated better for temperament than the average breed, including such breeds as Australian Shepherds, Dalmation, Italian Greyhound, and Yorkshire Terriers.

There was no societal stigma against pit bulls until the media created it very recently. Now, pit bulls are trapped in a vicious cycle, where people who want a vicious dog think they should get a pit bull, and that type of owner becomes a self fulfilling prophecy, ending in a result that brings attention to a so called "threat" which then leads to more assholes raising and abusing pit bulls.

JackieRabbit:AverageAmericanGuy: Pit bulls aren't dangerous. Owners who fail to train them and owners who train them to be violent are dangerous.

<picture of cute pit bull puppy>

THIS. The only vicious pit bulls I've ever seen are the ones specifically trained as fighting dogs. They are actually very sweet (and smart!) dogs without the training.

They're extremely boisterous and energetic, though.. they need a LOT of exercise and attention when they're puppies. Plus they're incredibly strong and tough. They've been known to use bowling balls as chew toys.. it can be a challenge keeping them occupied in a semi-rural/rural environment; I couldn't imagine trying to raise one of these big slabs of muscle and personality in any type of urban-living situation.

lantawa:Beginning of clip: In eight years, sixteen fatalities from dog attacks.

To be fair, it doesn't say that all of the attacks are from pit bulls/bull terriers, but, yeah, pit bulls are farkin' dangerous. It has now been bred into many of the lineages of this breed's animals. Pits ae the main reason that I carry concelaed, not so much to save myself (I'm large and can pull up a pretty fierce command voice), but for the little kids or females, possibly smaller men, who might become the target of a pit or other large-prey killing canine breed.

I bring my lab mix to the dog park at least three times a week. I found that while the pits I see there aren't necessarily vicious, about 95% of them like nothing more than to show everyone who's boss. Lots of growling and posturing. The breed is banned at Miami-Dade county parks, so they all come here in Broward.

lantawa:Beginning of clip: In eight years, sixteen fatalities from dog attacks.

To be fair, it doesn't say that all of the attacks are from pit bulls/bull terriers, but, yeah, pit bulls are farkin' dangerous. It has now been bred into many of the lineages of this breed's animals. Pits ae the main reason that I carry concelaed, not so much to save myself (I'm large and can pull up a pretty fierce command voice), but for the little kids or females, possibly smaller men, who might become the target of a pit or other large-prey killing canine breed.

If you're trying to say that hostility has been bred into many of the lineages of pitbull-type dogs, you're wrong. Do you even know the breeds that generally make up a pitbull? Those breeds were bred to be non-aggressive towards humans for centuries and aggression towards other animals bred out since the mid 1800s. Do you actually believe that a few generations of random litters are going to breed it back in? Pitbulls have only had this rep for maybe 20 years. Before them, it was German Shepherds, Rottweilers, and Dobermans. It's not the breed, it's the owner. Assholes & criminals will choose the largest, cheapest dogs they can get their hands on and turn them into monsters. For all we know, the next "dangerous breed" will be Labs.

brigid_fitch:lantawa: Beginning of clip: In eight years, sixteen fatalities from dog attacks.

To be fair, it doesn't say that all of the attacks are from pit bulls/bull terriers, but, yeah, pit bulls are farkin' dangerous. It has now been bred into many of the lineages of this breed's animals. Pits ae the main reason that I carry concelaed, not so much to save myself (I'm large and can pull up a pretty fierce command voice), but for the little kids or females, possibly smaller men, who might become the target of a pit or other large-prey killing canine breed.

If you're trying to say that hostility has been bred into many of the lineages of pitbull-type dogs, you're wrong. Do you even know the breeds that generally make up a pitbull? Those breeds were bred to be non-aggressive towards humans for centuries and aggression towards other animals bred out since the mid 1800s. Do you actually believe that a few generations of random litters are going to breed it back in? Pitbulls have only had this rep for maybe 20 years. Before them, it was German Shepherds, Rottweilers, and Dobermans. It's not the breed, it's the owner. Assholes & criminals will choose the largest, cheapest dogs they can get their hands on and turn them into monsters. For all we know, the next "dangerous breed" will be Labs.

If a pit/pits or other large-prey killing canine/canines is/are in the process of tearing up a human being, and I come upon the scene, I will enact a human sheep-dog response, and I will do my dead-level best to END the attacking canine's/canines' mayhem, along with said canine/canines. I'm leaving the nature vs. nurture debate to you and the other good folk who seek to protect innocent animals from harm. Situationally, a canid that is attacking a human being, and causing significant damage, has become something other than a "pet" or otherwise domesticated animal, and loses all life privileges in the human environment.

Emposter:lantawa: Beginning of clip: In eight years, sixteen fatalities from dog attacks.

To be fair, it doesn't say that all of the attacks are from pit bulls/bull terriers, but, yeah, pit bulls are farkin' dangerous. It has now been bred into many of the lineages of this breed's animals. Pits ae the main reason that I carry concelaed, not so much to save myself (I'm large and can pull up a pretty fierce command voice), but for the little kids or females, possibly smaller men, who might become the target of a pit or other large-prey killing canine breed.

...seriously?

You do realize that pit bulls were bred as nursing animals and designed to eliminate aggression towards humans, to the point where any that showed human aggression were killed? "Oh dear me, they're dangerous around THE CHILDREN oh no..." They were NURSEDOGS, bred to nurseguard children and infants, due to their incredible calmness and tolerance towards kids and insane devotion to their owners and charges, the same trait that makes them dangerous ONLY when their owners are worthless shiatbags. Even the breeds which were bred to fight had human aggression bred out of them, as organized fighting required the human owners to literally be in the fight with the dogs as the fight went on.

Normal pit bulls, without shiatbag owners, are rated better for temperament than the average breed, including such breeds as Australian Shepherds, Dalmation, Italian Greyhound, and Yorkshire Terriers.

There was no societal stigma against pit bulls until the media created it very recently. Now, pit bulls are trapped in a vicious cycle, where people who want a vicious dog think they should get a pit bull, and that type of owner becomes a self fulfilling prophecy, ending in a result that brings attention to a so called "threat" which then leads to more assholes raising and abusing pit bulls.

Have some reading material.http://eternalevolution.hubpages.com/hub/PitBullinfohttp://www.austinhumanesociety.org/pitbulliq

This is the EXACT argument people put forward for handguns, because even a handgun owned by a fully-trained, licensed gun owner is still designed for and capable of killing people, and even the most careful owners can't eliminate all possibilities of this happening. You have to respect the fact that pitbulls are bred for violence just as handguns are designed to kill people, and all the fluffy pink leather accessories in the world can't change this.

thehighesttree:ou have to respect the fact that pitbulls are bred for violence just as handguns are designed to kill people, and all the fluffy pink leather accessories in the world can't change this.

You have to respect the fact that you don't know what you're talking about. Pitbulls are not bred for violence, in fact, they've always been breed to be non-aggressive toward humans, especially if the dogs are being bred to fight. Pitbulls are particularly eager to please so they can be trained to fight, although the trainers have to use some pretty appalling tactics to get them to fight.

Information about put bulls borne out through several years of working with large rescue dogs of all breeds (many of them pit bulls and PB mixes):

- Pit bulls were bred to fight other dogs, but be handled safely by humans

- Pit bulls have been around for hundreds of years, yet are only a problem for the past 15 years

- The wikipedia dog attacks article is crap written mostly by an anti-pit bull loonie (see the edit history, discussion, etc.) the dogsbite.org lady. Doing your own google searches finds all of the other dog attacks by other large breed dogs that make the distribution pretty even across breeds, which you would expect.

Sigh. I have to explain this in every pit bull thread. There are no reliable studies or data about bites by breed. It's nearly impossible to tell a dog's breed by looking at it, meaning that the breed id in any study is inaccurate. Only 5% of dog's gene's are responsible for its appearance. And no, you are not some special case who can do what vets, trainers and behaviorists can't and identify breeds by sight.

Here are the dogs used for a study of attempts at breed identification by shelter workers. They all failed miserably. How did you do?

And because someone will post it soon: dogsbite.org is NOT a reliable source. It's a web site put up by a woman who claims she was attacked by a pit bull. Her story changes every time she tells it and has never matched her wounds or the witness reports. She has no training in statistics or research and lacks basic common sense. She recently tried to convince the Austin City Council that the animal shelter being no kill was causing more dog bites. She presented the number of dog bites the year before the city went no kill and the most recent year as her evidence. And yes, the number for the most recent year was higher. What she failed to account for was the increase in population or the fact that the dog bite rate had actually decreased slightly since the city became no kill. It wasn't a statistically significant decrease so the reality is that the dog bite rate is unchanged. But all of that escaped her, she claimed it didn't matter, the number was higher so she was right.

For anyone who is truly interested in the topic, I suggest you read The Pit Bull Placebo for fact-based, non-hysterical information about canine aggression from the National Canine Research Council. It's available free at the link.

thehighesttree:You have to respect the fact that pitbulls are bred for violence just as handguns are designed to kill people, and all the fluffy pink leather accessories in the world can't change this.

SOME pitbull-type dogs are bred for violence, same as German Shepherds, Rotties, & Dobies were in the 70s & 80s. But for literally centuries, they were bred to be non-aggressive towards humans. It's HARDER to make them aggressive. However, they can become unpredictable if they're ignored, neglected, or simply not trained well--just like ANY other breed of dog.

As many of us in the thread have been saying, it's the assholes & idiots who wind up with the dangerous pitbull-type dogs. Those same people would just as easily own a dangerous German Shepherd if they were as common/cheap as pitbulls are now. And an aggressive adult German Shepherd will do just as much damage as a pitbull.

empres77:I bring my lab mix to the dog park at least three times a week. I found that while the pits I see there aren't necessarily vicious, about 95% of them like nothing more than to show everyone who's boss. Lots of growling and posturing. The breed is banned at Miami-Dade county parks, so they all come here in Broward.

I'm curious about what the owners are like. And what do they do when they see their dogs display this type of behavior? Because a good owner would step in and put a stop to that.

Usually they yell the dog's name to get them to stop, but no real discipline is shown. I've never seen the "time out" area used. The owners sometimes say things like, "he/she just gets excited" or, "he's only like that around females." In more egregious cases the dogs are smacked on the head or grabbed by the scruff, but are then just let go. If things begin to get too heated they just leash them and leave.

empres77:Usually they yell the dog's name to get them to stop, but no real discipline is shown. I've never seen the "time out" area used. The owners sometimes say things like, "he/she just gets excited" or, "he's only like that around females." In more egregious cases the dogs are smacked on the head or grabbed by the scruff, but are then just let go. If things begin to get too heated they just leash them and leave.

Yup--everything you're NOT supposed to do to discipline a dog. The dogs are like that because of their douchebag owners