So yeah, I see how they can hear "cosplayers welcome" and think they won't be alone... but quickly find that the most "respected" costumers (in their eyes and... in mine; sadly, I've tried very hard not to be called a cosplayer at CC because I felt I was being pigeon-holed when I was) don't do re-creations.

And we don't carry cameras, for the most part. Heck, I didn't even wear my badge. I never wear my badge at cons. It's always a pain when I realize I forgot it at my hotel two blocks away and have to go back to get it for an event. Yeah... off topic, but the point is that we trust the official photographers to get pictures of what we want to see online. I still occasionally set up photoshoots at CC with other costumers. Remember our "two Kaylees" moments at the Social?

"Respected" costumers don't do re-creations? Most of the ones I know do.
And I envy them for that. As an almost strictly orginal costumer I'd love to do something that most folks would recognize & not have to be explained. that's one thing I love about CCs - folks accept orginal without explanation or needing it to be recognizable.

And you should always wear your badge! People may not recognize you in a particular outfit (or at all). Having your badge, maybe with both your real name & online handle, makes it easy for people to identify you especially if you only know each other online.

Oh wait! There's a difference some cosplayers need to know about - please let us know your real name!
It's okay (even handy) to use your online alias but please tell us your actual name, we want to know you & treat you like everyone else we know. Or for Archive purposes if nothing else

So, any suggestions on what exactly should be included in this proposed 'primer' (besides what has been discussed above)? I'm working on the CC32 website and was thinking of something very similar, a "It's my first CC, what should I expect?".

Good plan - hopefully we can come up with some good "talking points" for you!

And you should always wear your badge! People may not recognize you in a particular outfit (or at all). Having your badge, maybe with both your real name & online handle, makes it easy for people to identify you especially if you only know each other online.

My short-term memory is absolutely nil. Hence the having to walk several blocks to go get my badge that has happened to me regularly. I really do mean to wear it, but after that first costume change, it gets lost somewhere on my bed and doesn't resurface until I'm desperate to find it again for an event.

If we're doing something of a "primer", we can't make it TL;DR. Perhaps the websites for each year should have an FAQ section including: "How is Costume-Con different from other conventions?", "Which masquerade do I enter and how?", "What is the Friday Night Social?", "What is the Single Pattern Contest?", "What sort of costume should I wear?", "Will people wear hall costumes?", "How do I set up a shoot with a photographer?", etc.

And yes, I love the first year ribbon idea. I would totally go up and talk to people JUST BECAUSE THEY WERE WEARING FIRST-YEAR RIBBONS. As it were, I talked to people just because they looked uncomfortable, but then again, I didn't spend much time in the halls because Misha was so worried about getting the timing right in our skit this year that he dragged me upstairs to practice every opportunity he got. I SWEAR that's what we were doing!!!

BTW, IS hall costuming even appropriate anymore? Cathy S. and I had a conversation about this last night over dinner. A lot of people this year weren't in hall costumes, less than I've seen at my previous two CCs. Was it just because it was hot, or are we kind of silly and out-of-place wearing hall costumes? I ask because I DO really like wearing costumes in the hall and seeing others in costume. Some of my stuff really doesn't have a venue except CC, and it's not stage-worthy. What's kind of the expectation on that now?

If we're doing something of a "primer", we can't make it TL;DR. Perhaps the websites for each year should have an FAQ section including: "How is Costume-Con different from other conventions?", "Which masquerade do I enter and how?", "What is the Friday Night Social?", "What is the Single Pattern Contest?", "What sort of costume should I wear?", "Will people wear hall costumes?", "How do I set up a shoot with a photographer?", etc.

And yes, I love the first year ribbon idea. I would totally go up and talk to people JUST BECAUSE THEY WERE WEARING FIRST-YEAR RIBBONS.

BTW, IS hall costuming even appropriate anymore? Cathy S. and I had a conversation about this last night over dinner. A lot of people this year weren't in hall costumes, less than I've seen at my previous two CCs. Was it just because it was hot, or are we kind of silly and out-of-place wearing hall costumes? I ask because I DO really like wearing costumes in the hall and seeing others in costume. Some of my stuff really doesn't have a venue except CC, and it's not stage-worthy. What's kind of the expectation on that now?

As for making things accessible to everyone - "TL;DR"? I had to google it, don't assume everyone knows what you mean
Most of your suggested topics are good. (I might skip the photoshoot one, cosplayers already know how to do that & it isn't common for CCs - but maybe that could be added to programming? Hmm, I'll skip to the other thread with that thought in a minute.) So let's come up with some good, clear, non-patronizing answers (and more questions & pointers) that can be passed on & added to year to year. And I agree with everyone saying the CC sites are dated - maybe we can get those updated to include what we come up with?

Newbie ribbons? We started that at CC16. We weren't sure if folks would be insulted by them so made it optional but most new folks really liked being "tagged". They said folks were very accomodating & explained things to them without being asked - including in-jokes!

Hall costumes are definitely still good, I saw lots. Part of the problem was the hotel layout (which has been mentioned). But there are many "veterans" who just want to be comfortable during the day & glam up at night. You can't ding them for that & we all love seeing the great stuff in the hall. I think I'm about 50/50 on that; I like to wear the hall costumes but definitely switch to something more comfy for later when we're all just chatting.

Considering we usually end up with a buttload of random ribbons stuck to our badges every year, most of which are humorous, I love the idea if a newbie ribbon. I don't know that it will change my desire to speak to a specific person, but I can guarantee that if I'm chatting with someone and see it on their badge, I'll get excited and ask them how they like it/if they have any questions.

ANYWAY. The FAQ is probably the way to go since most people get their information about cons (and set up everything for it) off the con website in this day and age. A standard FAQ for the general CostumeCon website (oh right THAT one...okay yeah that's about 20 years out of date visually) and/or one that can be passed around to each year's concomm for their individual sites which can be custom tailored to their location and theme is a pretty easy start to education. I know there's a few oldbies on the board who still need to be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century, but Bruce, you are awesome for being on the cutting edge of technology as much as you can. I mean, look at this site, and how it's grown since I joined in 2003. If the people running CCs aren't staying ahead of technology, they're going to find that they can't attract anyone to come besides the veterans who go almost every year regardless. I'm not surprised that stats show that the main demographic is people local-ish to that year's con, followed by the veterans. I won't be able to attend next year because Phoenix. PHOENIX. But I'm absolutely going to Colorado (I was promised a chance to drive across Kansas during tornado season) and Toronto (YAAAY). Distance will always play a factor in whether or not to go, but at least now, having been to CC, I know that it is a con I WANT to go to. Whether or not I can is a different issue. So really, when it comes to people in general and cosplayers in general, the key is to help them see that CC is a con they want to go to. Some of them make pilgrimages across the country for Otakon or Fanime - so they just have to WANT to go to the con.

That said, I'm generically here to offer answers to specific questions, or brainstorm more questions for the FAQ. And/or brainstorm anything else.

Oh...one last thing I guess. The traveling nature of CC does lend itself to one small problem that I doubt there is any solution for - but it's something for those of us who love the con to keep in mind. That is, you can't guarantee certain things year to year. You can't guarantee the atmosphere in the halls, what percentage of people will wear hall costumes, the quality of the judging in the contests (sadly), the number of people competing, the entertainment value of the Social, and so on. Sometimes it depends on whether the concomm made the right decisions or had some good ideas, sometimes it depends on the attendees, sometimes it even depends on the geographical region and what the locals are used to. There are a lot of things we can clear up for people who aren't sure, but in the back of our minds we have to remember that some things are just going to vary from year to year when you don't have the same committee of schlubs programming the same panels at the same con in the same location. IDK. That just came to me.

__________________Founder and Vice-President, Madison Area Costuming Society, a chapter of the International Costumer's Guild

Again, more good input. I agree that the CC organization site is way out of date. Unfortunately, Karen doesn't have the time or want to put much effort into keeping that updated, so it's been falling to the individual con committees to disseminate info. CapsuleCorp had it right that there are a lot of variables regarding whether the con committee will hit all the right tones when running the con. I have great hopes for Toronto, because many of their committee have been in the anime community for years, so they'll have a better grasp of what will appeal to younger attendees, but they still understand that CC is a different culture unto itself. The Canadians have certainly made a positive impression on the general CC community since they started coming! They scored major points with their Sunday night Con Suite Party.

An FAQ: I think I actually wrote an FAQ for CC16, and re-published it for CC25 - I'll have to look for it. Maybe I'll post it in this forum and we can use it as a basis to start from. Once it's tweaked, I can present it to the RUNACC Yahoo groupers to consider adding.

I have the germ of another idea that I'm going to start working on - something like, "A Tour of Costume-Con" that not only serves as an FAQ but actually shows with photos and video what goes on. Put it up on YouTube or someplace like that.

Newbs ribbons: Supergeekgirl was doing what the vets were urged to do - go up and talk to the "virgins". "Virgins" gotta make some effort, too though - don't be a wallflower.

Recreations: as von Drago said, almost every "respected" costumer does recreations at one time or another, but most of them wind up branching out into original stuff more often, after a while. It's part of the creative growth process. You'll understand that as you get a better sense of the con history.

Hall Costumes: as von Drago touched on, more vets are going for comfort in the halls. If they do wear something, it may be a former competition piece, if it's easily put on. There may be a practicality issue if they're doing some demonstration, and they may not want to endanger it with accident. You're more likely to see them put on something fancier for sitting in the masquerade audience. Also, you might not recognize that some outfits are actually "wearable art" piece, or something from a past Future Fashion Show/Single Pattern contest. I've made two or three comfortable non-street fashion outfits to wear at CC and other cons recently.

Here's an idea on how to turn the tables on the the vets at CC: since cosplayers enjoy group photo meet-ups, drag a vet into your picture! They'll not only be flattered, but the shy ones will be pretty likely to open up and talk to you!

Yep, enough said. For me, I can completely understand and justify the price. When I'm on a budget and I only go to 1 or 3 cons a year (depends on money), that really does take a bit a cash away. So, you really have to be thinking what you're going to get out of it.

Edit**wasn't done typing/editing ^^;;

That's something that I will be bringing up for discussion on the committees list, also. Costs are a problem for CC because it's very space intensive, but relatively small in attendance. However, since committees are now going to (almost) exclusively electronic pubs, this SHOULD free up some cash that was otherwise a huge chunk of their upfront budgets. And MAYBE that might help make memberships a little less prohibitive.

Costume-Con is pricey, no doubt. Von Drago and I have said we'd love to go to Worldcon (and other out of state cons), yet we can really only afford one out of town con a year. But, we decided a long time ago that this one venue was worth the expense. The people we've met, the stuff we've learned, the friends we've made and sense of community we've gained are worth the money. We've talked to a number of people, cosplayers and general first-timers, and they've pretty much all decided CC is important enough to them that they choose either that CC is essential to include in their budgets or they wind up dropping other events because they get so much more out of this one. Those folks are becoming our new "vets".

Considering we usually end up with a buttload of random ribbons stuck to our badges every year, most of which are humorous, I love the idea if a newbie ribbon. I don't know that it will change my desire to speak to a specific person, but I can guarantee that if I'm chatting with someone and see it on their badge, I'll get excited and ask them how they like it/if they have any questions.

ANYWAY. The FAQ is probably the way to go since most people get their information about cons (and set up everything for it) off the con website in this day and age. A standard FAQ for the general CostumeCon website (oh right THAT one...okay yeah that's about 20 years out of date visually) and/or one that can be passed around to each year's concomm for their individual sites which can be custom tailored to their location and theme is a pretty easy start to education. I know there's a few oldbies on the board who still need to be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century, but Bruce, you are awesome for being on the cutting edge of technology as much as you can. I mean, look at this site, and how it's grown since I joined in 2003. If the people running CCs aren't staying ahead of technology, they're going to find that they can't attract anyone to come besides the veterans who go almost every year regardless. I'm not surprised that stats show that the main demographic is people local-ish to that year's con, followed by the veterans. I won't be able to attend next year because Phoenix. PHOENIX. But I'm absolutely going to Colorado (I was promised a chance to drive across Kansas during tornado season) and Toronto (YAAAY). Distance will always play a factor in whether or not to go, but at least now, having been to CC, I know that it is a con I WANT to go to. Whether or not I can is a different issue. So really, when it comes to people in general and cosplayers in general, the key is to help them see that CC is a con they want to go to. Some of them make pilgrimages across the country for Otakon or Fanime - so they just have to WANT to go to the con.

That said, I'm generically here to offer answers to specific questions, or brainstorm more questions for the FAQ. And/or brainstorm anything else.

Oh...one last thing I guess. The traveling nature of CC does lend itself to one small problem that I doubt there is any solution for - but it's something for those of us who love the con to keep in mind. That is, you can't guarantee certain things year to year. You can't guarantee the atmosphere in the halls, what percentage of people will wear hall costumes, the quality of the judging in the contests (sadly), the number of people competing, the entertainment value of the Social, and so on. Sometimes it depends on whether the concomm made the right decisions or had some good ideas, sometimes it depends on the attendees, sometimes it even depends on the geographical region and what the locals are used to. There are a lot of things we can clear up for people who aren't sure, but in the back of our minds we have to remember that some things are just going to vary from year to year when you don't have the same committee of schlubs programming the same panels at the same con in the same location. IDK. That just came to me.

I've really got to agree with this. I searched the website for any info(like I'd do for Otakon or Fanime) but came up empty-handed and confused.
I wanted to see what it was all about since it was in the next town from where my grandma and aunt live, and only about 5 towns away from me, but my family wanted details on the hours, etc. I even had trouble figuring out what the price would be for one day.
So I came on here, and asked some questions, but I kind of derailed what the topic was meant for, so I felt bad and probably didn't ask as many questions as I should.

I wish the website had a FAQ section briefly explaining the conference's(and see that too- I thought it was just a regular ol' convention), a little about the panels and masquerades, how many people on average attend, the atmosphere...and like everything else everyone mentioned should be in a FAQ thing.

I expected a HUGE convention for some reason going in there. We get to the hotel and the outside looks like a ghost town..we weren't sure it was even going on and were thinking of going back to my grandma's. I brought my 16 year old sister, and told her to cosplay, which I would not have done if I knew more about the size and atmosphere of the con. She was bored and angry. And just FYI, she's like the antithesis of those whiny loud crazy cosplaying teenage fangirls. She always says to me at Otakon and AnimeNEXT that she wants to kill them.
But she expected huge, she expected photographers to flock to her as per usual, and expected more panels and events geared towards fun and a slightly younger demographic. I guess I did too. Even though I'm 25(was 24 then), I felt out of place in my FF costume, and didn't get the in jokes which kind of made me uncomfortable, and the panels we went to...it was like, I thought it was supposed to teach the basics of..beading for example. But a lot of the panel consisted of the 4 panelists talking excitedly amongest themselves. I get that they love beading but hell, I want to learn how to do it. Then some of them said they hadn't really prepared a layout for the panel and didn't know what to teach/do. They finally showed us a few techniques...but mostly just passed around examples to look at. Luckily my sister is good at things like that and was able to figure out how they beaded most of their examples but... I guess what I'm trying to get at here is that, to us, the con felt like a clique. You had to be in the know, and in the clique, to know WTF was going on or garner knowledge, or I guess really enjoy yourself.

Not sure how that can be fixed, but at least an updated site with info, hours, some photos of the whole con experience maybe, would really help people not to go in with misconceptions which would make their time much more enjoyable.

I've only read the thread in the "Programming" thread so far, but since it's migrated here, I'd like to respond before I read the rest of this thread and get side tracked...

First of all I'm not sure which MC is being mentioned below but if it was Gord Rose I find the complaint EXTREMELY ODD.

Gord is probably one of THE BEST MC's to bridge the gap between the old school sci-fi/lit fandom bunch and the newer people from the anime community. He is a regular MC for both Anime North and FANEXPO, which are both long running conventions with large masquerades with mainly anime content. He's both very popular and highly requested.

I'm not sure what the deal with in-jokes is as nothing particularly stood out to me, both during the masquerade nor during my two subsequent viewings. I would like to view the source of the actual complaints out of curiosity.

That said said the universal rules of choosing an MC is that there is no pleasing everyone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by supergeekgirl

2. There are a lot of CC in-jokes. This actually bothers me a bit too. If we're going to have "entertainment" (aka a funny emcee...

(----snip for other relevant quote content-------)

But everything said, I would have preferred less in-jokes. That was what I heard the most complaints about all weekend, and I agree that it was alienating. The emcee did it constantly, and a few are fine, but it was A LOT of the masquerade emceeing.

The lack of infomation on the website and almost no updates was a problem. In order to get new people to come you have to get the infomation out. Monthly updates on the offical website would be nice. Also, posting to the local convention yahoo groups with updates would not be bad as long as the info is acurate.

I wasn't at the beading panel but I did notice that some of the other panels seemed a little underprepaired. Hopefully, with the addition of some technology like powerpoint, this will improve. Panelists, please remember the 6-Ps. Prior planning prevents piss poor preformance.

Oh, and for the record, I am greatful to all the panel members. I would not be comfortable making a presentation.

Okay, folks' comments here re-inforce the need for better communication - something we've been hammering committees about in the past. I will be sure to take your comments over there about this again. There was a noticeable lack of communication in some areas at CC29.

Ironhill: Which website are you referring to - CC29, Costume-Con.ORG or Costume-Con.COM? As for monthly updates, mmmmm. Not that much happens from month to month. But I agree, there should be more frequent updates. I believe in CC29's case, they published one Progess Report early on, and used that as the backbone for the basics. For new people, though, this isn't sufficient, and that's why we need a general FAQ that carries from one CC website to another, as well as the parent website.

I will bring up the subject of being more aware of in-jokes, since we have more new people, and at least make sure they are explained in brief. If people are encouraged to share the history behind an in-joke, then everyone can be part of experience.

Con size: There's not a big deal made about convention stats, but if you go here http://www.costume-con.org/gallery2/main.php and click on one of the icons on the left, it takes you to the individual CC event where it gives you varying amount of information about dates, events and attendance.

I will also bring up the beading panel in specifics. Sounds like this panel and some others would have benefitted from a moderator to keep things on track.

I have to agree in a big way with koi-ishly about the Costume-Con.com website.

Quote:

Originally Posted by supergeekgirl

BTW, IS hall costuming even appropriate anymore? Cathy S. and I had a conversation about this last night over dinner. A lot of people this year

weren't in hall costumes, less than I've seen at my previous two CCs. . What's kind of the expectation on that now?

I'm baffled at the thought that hall costuming isn't appropriate/welcome/etc. OF COURSE IT IS. I have to admit as a con organizer I rarely have the opportunity to make new costumes anymore, also at my weight it's akward, bulky and HOT, to wear anything flattering and non-revealing.

That said I always make the effort to wear a fun hat, or shirt, or whatever.

Although I did hall costume twice, I can only wear things for a limited time due to my foot/leg injury and the restriction to one specific pair of shoes. I'd personally like to have hall costumes all the time, it's just not possible. I still enjoy and encourage others wearing them. I imagine with a good portion of the Costume Con crowd aging, they have similar challenges.

BUT THE THOUGHT THAT IT'S NOT APPROPIRATE IS ......BAFFLING, and flat out UNTRUE. So let me resolve this here, COSTUMING IS ALWAYS APPROPRIATE where it does not restrict health and/or preformance. ^_^;

Quote:

Originally Posted by CapsuleCorp

View Post
The one thing you're never going to get around is the price. A lot of people still won't go to CC or WorldCon because of the price, and that's when

you have to just shrug and hope that someday when they have disposable income they'll change their minds. You can't really get around that. But you can get around all the other stuff with just some education.

With good planning buying a Costume-Con membership doesn't have to be much/any more expensive than attending one of top 10 Anime Cons or big sci-fi cons.
If you buy your CC32 membership right now, ($65), you're paying less or about the same as for any of the top 10 Anime Cons. (I've added Fanexpo as #0 for comparison as it's our big localDragconCon/Comicon type behemoth and it's relevant to any Canadians reading this...)

Also Costume-Con is a 4 day event, and sometimes 5 if you take the Thursday tours.

Quote:

Originally Posted by supergeekgirl

So yeah, I see how they can hear "cosplayers welcome" and think they won't be alone... but quickly find that the most "respected" costumers (in

their eyes and... in mine; sadly, I've tried very hard not to be called a cosplayer at CC because I felt I was being pigeon-holed when I was) don't

do re-creations.

They're NOT alone at Costume Con. There are many of us who are involved in Anime Cons and Anime Costuming, and we're all very open and welcoming. I know there are some bad apples who are a drag or at worst just plain rude, but they are only SOME of the people at Costume Con. It's the same at any con. There are people who are horrible everywhere. Nobody can fix that because you can't fix stupid.

I try to include new people or loaners whenever possible, (we had new quebec and ontario people down again this year), but I think I'm a little loud and off putting and spook the newbies who don't know me. HaHa.

I agree with whomever said the "noobie" ribbons should come back. I was already planning to have "My First Costume-Con" ribbons at CC32 in Toronto, budget permitting. We got them at our first Costume Con and it made everything that much more awesome.

Quote:

Originally Posted by von Drago

And you should always wear your badge! People may not recognize you in a particular outfit (or at all). Having your badge, maybe with both

your real name & online handle, makes it easy for people to identify you especially if you only know each other online.

AGREE with Von Drago. I don't always recognize my friends in costume, nevermind aquaintances or someone I may know online from a photo....

Don't even get me started... *^_^*;;

As for the repeated comments that Costume Con is Cliquish, I think all cos have groups of people who know each other, (and come to that con every year for that reason). I think it's unfortunate that that's making people feel left out however.

When Sarcasm-Hime, Ikegami, and I started going to Costume Con, we were only 3. Now we have lots of friends there, (both from home and that we made there), we were lucky to meet immediately friendly people, (Von Drago, Buddycat, Gravely, etc), but we needed to impose ourselves on people too. (HA-HA)

Costume Con may seem cliquish at first, but it's just we know who we know and fall into old habits.

I know Sarcasm & I are constantly picking up new people for lunches, dinners, hang-outs, whatever. When we say hi to people or compliment them on their costumes, it's up to them to decide wether to get to know us or not, we are happy to extend the olive branch of friendship, it's up to others to take it.

I agree with whomever said the "noobie" ribbons should come back. I was already planning to have "My First Costume-Con" ribbons at CC32 in Toronto, budget permitting. We got them at our first Costume Con and it made everything that much more awesome.
COLOR]

Make you a deal - if you want the ribbons we'll pay for them. Then you don't have to add them to your budget, consider them sponsored. Maybe we can even get the SLCG to sponsor them but at the very least Bruce & I will. We think this is important (obviously).