I donít know if the Groffís held back at all on the recipe. Maybe the new owners just went with what was available to them, since they arenít as large now. You know I mentioned that my distributor told me that he heard Papa Dinoís used a special blend of cheeses when Papa Dinoís was a lot larger. I really wonder now if Papa Dinoís is using the special blend, or trying to blend any other cheeses. I really donít know, but I brought home a piece of the AMPI mild white cheddar home from market yesterday and grated it. My youngest daughter was at my home and we both tasted the AMPI mild white cheddar and the Papa Dinoís cheese and both of them tasted exactly alike to us. I donít think AMPI sells the mild white cheddar in blocks, but could be wrong. Maybe my distributor just doesnít carry the big blocks. Cheddar cheese is so hard to just taste and know if it is the same brand. I wish I knew what brand of cheddar that big block was.

My youngest daughter also liked Papa Dinoís from years ago and she thought the pizza tasted about the same as it did before. I gave her a slice last evening. Maybe though she really canít remember either. She had lived in Brooklyn, NY for about 15 years and ate many different NY style pizzas from NY. Trying to remember what something tasted like years ago can be somewhat challenging.

As for the sauce, you would have to taste Papa Dinoís pizzas now to see if you think the sauce is different. I really canít remember what their sauce tasted like years ago. How long would it take for you to get to Papa Dinoís? I donít think it would take you that long, but could be wrong.

Maybe later this coming week, if I find time, I will go back and check out the ham boats and look around some more.

I can take a closer picture of the sauce if you want me to. I am going to freeze it later tonight though.

Norma

No need to take any further pics of the sauce, Norma, but thanks anyway!!! It would probably take me about 45 minutes to get around Lancaster and out that way depending on traffic. I'll check it out one of these days soon, myself.

Any mixture of cheeses would be predominately cheddar but my other three choices for adding in would be mozzarella, provolone, and Swiss, but not all that much of either of those. Like I mentioned in the Boardwalk Pizza thread, I'd start with 80% cheddar and 20% of some sort of combination of the others.

The toasted hamboats are really easy to duplicate. Good quality chipped baked ham lunchmeat, Cooper cheese, shredded lettuce, sliced ripe tomatoes, sliced onion, and mayonnaise (maybe a little oregano as well) on a hard hoagy roll like what Terranetti's or ATV Bakery offers. Just assemble the sandwich and pop them in your pizza oven for a little while until the lettuce begins to wilt.

I used the Papa Dinoís frozen dough ball yesterday to make a pizza. I had frozen the dough ball for a 12Ē pizza the next day after I purchased it. I took the frozen dough ball to market on Monday, and just had it in a plastic bag, and then placed it in the deli case . Until yesterday morning it didnít look like the dough ball had fermented any. I removed the dough ball from the deli case and left it at room temperature (which was hot) for about 3 hrs. It still didnít look like it fermented much, but the dough ball did soften up. I probably should have used the dough ball sooner to make pizza, but wanted to get an idea of about how much yeast was used in a Papa Dinoís dough ball, if I could in watching how it fermented. I know freezing the Papa Dinoís dough ball didnít help the yeast and probably killed some of it. I still have no idea of how much yeast Papa Dinoís uses in their dough formulation, but would guess it isnĎt a lot.

I tried to press out the dough like the pieman did at Papa Dinoís and also apply the cheese and sauce like I saw him do it. For some reason the pizza wanted to stick to the peel a little and didnít want to launch exactly right. I think it might have stuck because the dough ball then felt moister. I think the pizza did bake faster than Papa Dinoís and then the resulting crumb was moister, even though the rim was fairly flat. Steve and I thought that the dough could have used more salt.

My friend, and a customer of mine, was at Rootís last evening and remembers Papa Dinoís pizzas. He said the pizza did taste like a Papa Dinoís pizza, after I gave him a slice. He also hasnít eaten a Papa Dinoís pizza for awhile.

I think the next time I attempt a Mackís pizza the sauce is going to be a lot thinner, something like Papa Dinoís. At least Papa Dinoís sauce did help with how I might prepare the Mackís pizza sauce thinner the next time. I think I learned something new from Papa Dinoís sauce.

I sure doní know how the Groffís decided on what kind of pizza to make, but think the Papa Dinoís pizza must have some kind Trenton roots, in how the sauce and cheese are applied.

Norma

Yeah Norma, that and the cheddar cheese which seems to be a common similarity with the Trenton tomato pies as well. Any sauce applied over the top of the cheese will reduce when baked so using a thinner sauce makes sense there and also for ease of application purposes.

Papa Dino's pies were always heavily floured on the bottom hence the "grime" I spoke of in the Boardwalk thread. That would prevent it from sticking to the peel when slid into the oven.

The dough does look a bit over-fermented but with Papa Dino's, sometimes the level of fermentation of the dough varied quite a bit anyway so no big deal there. LOL Their dough was never that salty, either, maybe to help with rise time and I do add way more to my standard dough mix here at home. What the Groff's may have done, however, is add some powdered salt to the flour they used during prep and on their peels to give the finished crust a saltier flavor.

It only takes us about 25 minutes to get to Roots. I'll probably get down to see you before I get to Papa Dino's again. LOL

Yeah Norma, that and the cheddar cheese which seems to be a common similarity with the Trenton tomato pies as well. Any sauce applied over the top of the cheese will reduce when baked so using a thinner sauce makes sense there and also for ease of application purposes.

Papa Dino's pies were always heavily floured on the bottom hence the "grime" I spoke of in the Boardwalk thread. That would prevent it from sticking to the peel when slid into the oven.

The dough does look a bit over-fermented but with Papa Dino's, sometimes the level of fermentation of the dough varied quite a bit anyway so no big deal there. LOL Their dough was never that salty, either, maybe to help with rise time and I do add way more to my standard dough mix here at home. What the Groff's may have done, however, is add some powdered salt to the flour they used during prep and on their peels to give the finished crust a saltier flavor.

It only takes us about 25 minutes to get to Roots. I'll probably get down to see you before I get to Papa Dino's again. LOL

Pete,

I really didnít think a lot about the sauce having to be thinner until I saw how thin the sauce was that I purchased at Papa Dinoís. I see using a thinner sauce now makes sense.

I didnít see the pieman at Papa Dinoís heavily flouring the dough ball before he opened it, unless I missed something when taking the video. I think the dough ball I used was overly fermented from me watching it for so long in the heat. I was just curious of how it would rise and that is why I left it sit out so long. Like I posted on the boardwalk thread I never really watched how Papa Dinoís made their pizzas. I wasnít as interested in knowing how pizzas were made back then. I canít even recall how salty Papa Dinoís pizzas were before in the crust.

I still have the one frozen dough ball, half sauce and half cheese. If you want me to wait and use them to attempt another Papa Dinoís pizza until you come to market, I can. I know Annville isnít that far from Rootís. Let me know if you want me to wait to make the attempt again.

Steve tasted Papa Dinoís cheese and the AMPI mild white cheddar and said the AMPI mild white cheddar had a stronger cheddar taste to him.

Papa Dinoís is only about 20 minutes from Rootís, so you might get there before me. If you get to Papa Dinoís before me, let me know what you think of their pizzas and if you notice anything different.

I really didnít think a lot about the sauce having to be thinner until I saw how thin the sauce was that I purchased at Papa Dinoís. I see using a thinner sauce now makes sense.

I didnít see the pieman at Papa Dinoís heavily flouring the dough ball before he opened it, unless I missed something when taking the video. I think the dough ball I used was overly fermented from me watching it for so long in the heat. I was just curious of how it would rise and that is why I left it sit out so long. Like I posted on the boardwalk thread I never really watched how Papa Dinoís made their pizzas. I wasnít as interested in knowing how pizzas were made back then. I canít even recall how salty Papa Dinoís pizzas were before in the crust.

I still have the one frozen dough ball, half sauce and half cheese. If you want me to wait and use them to attempt another Papa Dinoís pizza until you come to market, I can. I know Annville isnít that far from Rootís. Let me know if you want me to wait to make the attempt again.

Steve tasted Papa Dinoís cheese and the AMPI mild white cheddar and said the AMPI mild white cheddar had a stronger cheddar taste to him.

Papa Dinoís is only about 20 minutes from Rootís, so you might get there before me. If you get to Papa Dinoís before me, let me know what you think of their pizzas and if you notice anything different.

Norma

My lovely wife Ann and I are shooting for this Tuesday for a visit to Root's since we haven't been down there this season as of yet. We've both eaten plenty of Papa Dino's over the years so there's no need to save any of your materials for us, Norma, but thanks!!! If you just happen to have it ready when we get there, I'll eat a little and give you my opinion. I think I'd rather try your standard market pizza, anyway. LOL

Maybe afterward we'll skip on over to Papa Dino's since we'll already be halfway there. I still haven't heard anything from my sister regarding a possible new location so maybe I'll give her a call here shortly.

My lovely wife Ann and I are shooting for this Tuesday for a visit to Root's since we haven't been down there this season as of yet. We've both eaten plenty of Papa Dino's over the years so there's no need to save any of your materials for us, Norma, but thanks!!! If you just happen to have it ready when we get there, I'll eat a little and give you my opinion. I think I'd rather try your standard market pizza, anyway. LOL

Maybe afterward we'll skip on over to Papa Dino's since we'll already be halfway there. I still haven't heard anything from my sister regarding a possible new location so maybe I'll give her a call here shortly.

Pete,

Good to hear your lovely wife and you will be coming to market on Tuesday. I will take the stuff along from Papa Dinoís. All depends on how busy we are if I will have time to make the pizza while you are there. It doesnít take long from market to get to Papa Dinoís. Let me know if you hear anything from your sister regarding if the Groffís might open a new location.

These were the results of using the second Papa Dinoís dough ball, cheese and sauce. The dough ball was very dry, but was easy to open, after pressing on the dough ball. The sauce also was very thin and I used all of the rest of the sauce and cheddar for this pizza. Pete tasted the sauce and cheese. I think he said the sauce tastes a little different than he remembers when he tasted Papa Dinoís sauce. Pete also tasted the Papa Dinoís cheddar cheese and the AMPI mild white cheddar and did agreed with Steve that the AMPI mild white cheddar has a little sharper flavor when tasted plain before the bake.

The pizza did turn out very well in taste and texture of the crumb. I think there was a little bit too much cheese for the size pizza I was making, but overall the pizza did taste almost like a Mackís pizza. I think I learned an important clue in trying Papa Dinoís dough ball, cheese and sauce. I now wonder if a Mackís dough clone could be lowered in hydration more. The reason I say that is because this pizza baked differently in my higher temperature deck oven than it did at Papa Dinoís. The crumb reminded me a lot like a real Mackís crumb, but wasnít as good in the taste of the crumb as a real Mackís pizza. I also think the sauce from Papa Dinoís helped me decide how thin to make the sauce in a Mackís clone. I think the sauce does look like a Mackís sauce in how it is applied and how it looks after the bake. After the bake, we didnít think the cheese type could be really tasted differently than a Mackís pizza, or even with using the AMPI mild white cheddar. Steve, my taste testers and I did enjoy this pizza.

Pete tasted the sauce and cheese. I think he said the sauce tastes a little different than he remembers when he tasted Papa Dinoís sauce. Pete also tasted the Papa Dinoís cheddar cheese and the AMPI mild white cheddar and did agreed with Steve that the AMPI mild white cheddar has a little sharper flavor when tasted plain before the bake.

Like I speculated from your picture, Norma, the sauce seemed to be lacking some of the spices, like a heavier basil flavor, and didn't have that little bit of an onion aftertaste. It wasn't quite as salty and peppery, either. From what I remember, the original Groff's Papa Dino's sauce may not have been quite as smooth in consistency as well.

Both the cheeses were pretty good but then, it's rather difficult for me to discover a cheddar cheese I don't really like. LOL I wonder if I could find something like an in-between mild sharp cheddar at the supermarket which might duplicate the same flavor profile?

Like I speculated from your picture, Norma, the sauce seemed to be lacking some of the spices, like a heavier basil flavor, and didn't have that little bit of an onion aftertaste. It wasn't quite as salty and peppery, either. From what I remember, the original Groff's Papa Dino's sauce may not have been quite as smooth in consistency as well.

Both the cheeses were pretty good but then, it's rather difficult for me to discover a cheddar cheese I don't really like. LOL I wonder if I could find something like an in-between mild sharp cheddar at the supermarket which might duplicate the same flavor profile?

Pete,

It is good you remember what Papa Dinoís sauce tasted like, because I sure didnít. I am not sure, but didnít you say before you got extra sauce sometimes when you went to Papa Dinoís? The current owners of Papa Dinoís might have changed the sauce recipe for savings, or maybe Groffís didnít give the current owners the right recipe. It doesnít really matter to me, because the pizza I made with Papa Dinoís sauce, cheddar, and their dough ball didnít throw the flavor profile off from trying to make a Mackís clone. Before when I tried different sauces for a Mackís clone, some of the sauces threw the whole flavor profile off. From now on my Mackís clones attempts are going to include a thinner sauce.

In my opinion there might be many cheddar combinations that might work for a Papa Dinoís attempt or a Mackís attempt. Are you going to try a Papa Dinoís attempt? I donít really want to try and clone Papa Dinoís, but wanted to see how the dough, sauce and cheese tasted and looked like before they were made into a pizza and after they were used to make a pizza.

Your Papa Dino's clone is one beautiful pie! The raw pie looks just like a Mack's or Manco's. The sauce thickness is just right.

BOARDWALKER

BOARDWALKER,

Thanks for your kind comment about the Papa Dino's pie, but it really wasn't a clone. I used a real Papa Dino's dough ball, sauce and cheese, that I had purchased at Papa Dino's. I only played around with them to be able to see how their ingredients would look and taste if baked in my deck oven. Thanks for saying the sauce thickness is just right for a Mack's or Manco and Manco pizza. I had watched those piemen at Mack's and even took videos of how the sauce looked and never would have thought the sauce would have been that thin before I tried the Papa Dino's sauce. I guess there is more than one way to skin a cat. I am now thinking about making a dough ball something like Papa Dino's for a Mack's dough ball, but don't know where to start.

You could have had some if you were at market later in the day. Maybe sometimes if you go to Papa Dino's you also could purchase a dough ball, sauce and cheese and see how your oven or outside grill would bake the same dough and dressings.