having worked myself through the (excellent) book "Dramatica. A New Theory of Story" several times now, there are questions I just can't find an answer to - so I put them up here hoping some of you more experienced Dramatica users can give me advice where I lost track...

1. Story Goal- The elements of structure/Plot Story Points/Story Goal (pg. 128): "The Story Goal will share the same Type as the Overall Story Concern."- The Art of Story Telling/Stage One: Storyforming/Static Plot Story Points (pg. 203): "The goal will be the same nature as the Concern of one of the four Throughlines. Which one depends on which throughline an author wants to highlight in his storytelling"Although I prefer the second, more flexible option, Dramatica software automatically assigns my Storygoal's Type to the Overall Throughline's Concern... what am I missing here?

2. Sequences/Scenes/EventsThe elements of Structure/Plot(pg. 146 ff.) explains:- Sequences: There are 6 Sequences (the 4 Variations measured each by each - I do understand that)- Scenes: There are 24 scenes. "What then does a scene contain? Scenes describe the change in dynamics between Elements as the story progresses over time. And since Elements are the building blocks of characters, scenes describe the changing relationships between characters. Characters are made up of Motivations, Methodologies, Means of Evaluation and Purposes." I understand that, but where do the 24 come from? I just don't get it...

We have spoken of the three and four act appreciations of story. It was illustrated how both divisions are valid to specific tasks. When dealing with scenes, we find that no scenes ever hang between two acts, half in one and half in the other, regardless of a three or four act appreciation. This is because there are exactly 24 scenes created at the Element level: six per act in a four act appreciation, eight per act in a three act appreciation. In both cases, the scenes divide evenly into the acts, contributing to the “feel” of each act break being a major turning point in the progress of the story.

Sequences, on the other hand, exist as a six part partition of the story. Therefore, they divide evenly into a three act appreciation but not into a four. Since the four act view is objective, sequences — as they define Thematic movements — are truly an experiential phenomenon in the subjective appreciation and lose much of their power objectively."

This is exactly the page I've been reading over and over and over again... but I still don't understand. "...there are exactly 24 scenes created at the Element level..." - yeah, but HOW are they created? What is the equation leading to the number of 24? Which are the elements (respectively, their interactions) involved?

Let's assume, I am writing a story as follows (I'll use a three-act structure for simplicity): OS Domain: SituationOS Concern: How things are changingOS Issue: FactOS Problem: Proven

Acts: Journey 1 (e.g. The Past -> How things are changing) + Journey 2 (How things are changing -> The Future) + Journey 3 (The Future -> The Present) = 3 ActsSequences: since "Fact" is my Issue -> Fact vs Fantasy + Fact vs. Security + Fact vs. Threat + Fantasy vs. Security + Fantasy vs. Threat + Security vs. Threat = 6 SequencesScenes: But what then are the 24 scenes in such a story? As far as I can see, it's not about Elements, but their interaction - so, if there are 6 possible interactions within a quad of 4 elements; the number of possible interactions of 4 quads examined would be 24. But - in this example story - what quads/Elements would that be? The 4 quads/16 Elements beneath the Fact/Fantasy/Security/Threat quad?

I'm on a tight schedule today and will provide a detailed reply later this evening... meanwhile, I believe Melanie addresses most of your general questions in this essay:http://dramaticapedia.com/2011/10/24/character-development-and-the-28-magic-scenes/

I'll plug your settings into a blank storyform later this evening and provide screenprints in my reply. I'm using Dramatica Pro for the PC, so if you are using Story Expert then things will look a bit different but the concepts will be the same.

thank you so much for your support! I have just read the article you recommended - thank God, I did not come across the "28 magic scenes" before; although they seem to be a nice Storytelling tool for getting that first draft done, there's also potential for further confusion... (especially, since there are 24 "structural scenes" per throughline - 96 in a complete story; but only 28 "magic scenes" in all 4 throughlines, which - if one leaves out the additional "final scene" in each throughline - leads to the question, where there is a difference between a "magic scene" and a sequence...)

But back to what Melanie wrote about the "24 structural scenes":

"Now, dealing with the 24 scenes in the structure, we find there are the same four signposts that delineate the sequence of topics that will be explored act by act. But each of the signposts must also be explored thematically. In other words, to make the story argument, the reflections or harmonics of the problem must be felt in the plot. To do this, you look at the thematic conflict for a given throughline (like the overall story) and then explore all of the thematic conflicts in each of the four signposts. There are four thematic elements in the quad containing the thematic conflict. In every quad there are six different relationships that can be explored, so four signposts “times” six relationships to be explored equals 24 sequences per throughline. "

- Confusion #1: This is all about exploring a story thematically. But isn't thematic conflict already explored on Variation Level by measuring Issue und creating Sequences? Aren't we down to Element level, where Character interaction/conflict happens, when creating Scenes - as the book says?- Confusion #2: On Element level, the quad containing the thematic conflict (Problem vs. Solution) of my example story would be Proven/Unproven/Accurate/Non-Accurate, which falls under the "How things are changing"-Signpost. But which ones would be the conflict quads under the other three Signposts? Isn't there only 1 Problem per throughline?- Confusion #3: I think, the word "sequences" at the end of the quote has to be replaced with "scenes", since this is what the whole paragraph is about, isn't it?

There are many ways to construct scenes. The 28-scene Signpost and Journeys method only looks at scenes at slightly less than act sized resolution and from a plot perspective. It's more like a suggested sense of the major beats in a plot, rather than filmic scenes. Character, theme, and genre need to be added to those scenes as well, which allow you to have reason to subdivide (or parallel) the plot sceneseven further.

THEN, when you add in whatever storyweaving techniques you wan to use, you'll find that variation is less tied to the storyform and more to the storytelling. This frees you up to explore the story in as many slices as you wish.

LONGER ANSWER:

There are all sorts of ways to figure out what goes on in a scene -- the 24 scene (minimum) using character element interactions is one. There are thematic scenes or sequences, as well as plot scenes (based on signposts and journeys). However, these are scenes that grow from the structure only, not organic scenes in the traditional sense.

Here is a link to one Dramatica tip on the subject. I followed it with an excerpt from another Dramatica tip.

There is no single "right" way to build scenes. The Dramatica theory book and Armando's book, Dramatica for Screenwriters, as well as the structure templates shipped with Dramatica, each give you different approaches to accomplish the same task, namely storyweaving your encoded story points into a finished work. There are MANY ways to approach this process. What you include and how you organize your scenes depends on your personal taste and the constraints of the form of writing you are doing (e.g. screenplay, novel, stage play, etc.). Screenplays have limited space to cover a lot of material, whereas novels have relatively more space to explore the storyform at leisure.

If you are an organic writer, then write and rework it after the fact. If you are a structural writer, then I suggest you lay out your story in plot order FIRST, then figure out how you want to rearrange things through storyweaving for the finished work (e.g. reveal early plot points at the end of the work such as "Whodunit?"). In any case, here are a few tips:There are four acts. Make sure all static story points (e.g. Story Goal, MC Problem, OS Issue, etc.) appear at least ONCE in each act.

- Make sure each throughline appears at LEAST once per act. - Make sure each character appears at least once per act. - Make sure there are elements of Character, Plot, Theme, and Genre at least once per act (it's hard NOT to do this but it bears mentioning).

Whenever possible, combine story points and throughlines into the same scenes. This weaves your story tighter and makes it appear more cohesive and organic to the audience.

PeterSchwaiger wrote:1. Story Goal- The elements of structure/Plot Story Points/Story Goal (pg. 128): "The Story Goal will share the same Type as the Overall Story Concern."- The Art of Story Telling/Stage One: Storyforming/Static Plot Story Points (pg. 203): "The goal will be the same nature as the Concern of one of the four Throughlines. Which one depends on which throughline an author wants to highlight in his storytelling"Although I prefer the second, more flexible option, Dramatica software automatically assigns my Storygoal's Type to the Overall Throughline's Concern... what am I missing here?

The software requires that the Story Goal be located withing the Overall Story Domain. When defining the goal as the item or condition everyone in the 'story' are trying to achieve (or prevent), then having it in the OS makes the most sense.

HOWEVER, any of the four throughline's Concerns can be emphasized in the storytelling to make it appear to be the 'story goal'. Likewise, each throughline's concern may emphasize one particular aspect of the Concern to make it appear to be the throughline's goal. This appearance does not affect the story structurally, but may play an important part in your audience's story reception.

THEORY NOTE: It is conceivable that alternative versions of the Dramatica model built on different 'givens' could accommodate Story Goals that do not appear in the Overall Story throughline. The implication would be that the other static plot points would have to be recalibrated to reflect the alternative version's new baseline ('givens'). We included that note in the theory book to indicate the potentially relative nature of the Story Goal as a concept but not necessarily as a practical application.

Pete, I apologize for not being able to reply last night, and am glad that Chris made his reply.

- Confusion #2: On Element level, the quad containing the thematic conflict (Problem vs. Solution) of my example story would be Proven/Unproven/Accurate/Non-Accurate, which falls under the "How things are changing"-Signpost. But which ones would be the conflict quads under the other three Signposts? Isn't there only 1 Problem per throughline?

The Theme Browser may be a useful tool to help determine conflict. In the Build Chacters tool screenprint below that there are Dynamic, Companion, and Dependent relationships between the elements. The Dynamic \ or / indicates elements that are in conflict with each other. Now, apply that same concept to the presentation of elements through the Theme Browser. I'm including a screenprint of a Theme Browser based on the initial settings you provided (I filled in the blanks to reduce it to 1 storyform):http://goo.gl/f6sRxH

In the screenprint linked above, the Problem, Response, Symptom, and Solution is displayed in each signpost and in each element.

The default version of the Theme Browser in Dramatica Pro seems to have all extra features turned off. In Dramatica Pro, activating those additional guides is done through a drop down menu located in the lower left region of the theme browser (print attached below).

It may also be worth mentioning that hidden away in the Level Three Storyguide are detailed instructions about scenes (print attached below). Storyweaving > Scene Creation > Step #6 Building > Guidelines presents four stages to the building of a scene.

You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

thank you so much for your effort and for sharing so many valuable tips and insights! Being an experienced and rather organic writer, I know well about the necessity of a multi-angle approach when it comes to creating scenes. I find the blending of theme-, plot- and character-perspectives on scenes and especially the way, Dramatica's Build Character Tool and the Scene Creation Tool in the StoryGuide support that approach, very very helpful.

Nevertheless, whenever I encounter a new theory, I want to be pursuaded by the naked inner logic of the theory itself (the way I was pursuaded by Aristotles' Poetics years ago). So, let's stay within the argumentative boundaries of the book "Dramatica. A New Theory of Story" for one last time. Can you help me close the gap down the line, which keeps my mind from becoming a true believer?

1. Being given nothing but the book and one specific throughline of a single storyform (let's use the OS of Stephen's: http://goo.gl/f6sRxH), even an abolute beginner like me can easily tell what the 3 (or even 4) acts of this throughline look like:- Act 1: The Past -> How things are changing- Act 2: How things are changing -> The Future- Act 3: The Future -> The Present

Hm. This is were I start to speculate. What might the other 18 scenes in this specific throughline of this specific storyform be? What are the other 3 quads, whose interactions have to be evaluated?

Please, don't get me wrong. I don't believe in blueprints for literary fiction; neither am I looking for a paint-by-numbers-recipy for writing a story! All I want is to arrive - in a purely theoretical, abstract, mathematical sense - at my personal Signpost of Understanding.

The best way of imagining element interactions is through the objective characters to which the elements (characteristics) have been assigned. Each level has four quads. The elements have four levels (a total of 64 characteristics).

Now, there is a simple way to imagine how to get the 24 scenes. The first is to imagine the four levels of character elements (characteristics) are stacked vertically and that you have assigned the eight character archetypes -- each with two elements at each of the four levels for a total of 8 characteristics a piece. Then follow the pattern you identified above but substitute the archetype for the specific element. You'd end up with the following interactions using the quad of Protagonist/Antagonist/Sidekick/Skeptic (Proven/Unproven/Accurate/Non-accurate) pattern:

That's six scenes exploring one quad. There are four quads, so exploring the remaining three give you the 24 scenes. This assumes you explore the archetype interactions, not the individual element interactions.

If you want to explore the element interactions, multiply the number by 4 to account for the four layers of characteristics (motivations, methodologies, evaluations, and purposes) for a total of 96 direct character interactions based on the quad relationships of the character archetypes.

P.S.: I have just opened the example storyform and created the 8 Archetypal characters...

Can I sayIn a "standard" story there are 8 Archetypal characters: 4 Drivers, 4 Passengers - each of them consisting of four dimensions (Motivation, Purpose, Methodology, Means of Evaluation - which is reflected by stacking the Characteristics Quad)

I'm not sure of the value of viewing it that way, but yes -- that's the way it looks in terms of archetypes.

I think it's important to point out that very few stories (apart from children's stories) rely on pure character archetypes. Most stories use simple characters (one or two characteristics from a single dimension), or complex characters (characteristics from multiple dimensions in partial or non-archetypal patterns).

Reducing the complex materia of Character Development to Archetypes is not what I am after, neither my intent as an author. But it personally helps me with getting kind of a feel for the multi-angle, multi-dimensional approach of the StoryMind model of Dramatica.