Gerald Red Elk, a Lakota Sioux shaman, met Trungpa Rinpoche at Rocky Mountain Dharma Center, during the Magyal Pomra Encampment in July 1984. ....(The first part of the conversation was about Little Joe. Chögyam Trungpa asked Gerald Red Elk if he had known him. Gerald Red Elk said that Ani Pema Chodron had also asked about him about Little Joe, and he had told her that Little Joe had died.)

CTR: He blessed us with feathers and sage.

GRE: We do that too. Unfortunately, our holy men are leaving us. But they finished what they were supposed to do here. I wanted to meet and talk to you because when we went back to our old ways, the gods showed us things. Some things we understand, some things we do not.

(He then proceeded to show papers to Chögyam Trungpa, upon which were drawings of symbols. He described the rock, upon which he had seen the symbols, as being a medium rock. The first symbol he showed Chögyam Trungpa was a circle enclosing a cross.)......

GRE: In dreams, tell them to use certain kinds of feathers. Use dark feathers with white speckles. That is what we know ... The eagle is now. The next [cycle] will be the serpent. They told us a lot of things. In 1978 and 1979, the holy men said the changes are starting. When they were doing the ghost dances, it was said by Grandfather god: "This time, I made the white man first. So, I am waiting to see what he is going to do."

This civilization is in a bad state of mind. Floods and earthquakes were starting to get severe in 1980, and it will be getting worse this year. That is the main reason why our young realize and they want to learn. That will help them to survive. I wished I could have brought a few.

(Gerald Red Elk looks and gestures towards the encampment grounds.)

We want our young to know it too. At home, it is very hard to see this.