It appears that the words OUTDATED and FUTURE are a matter of individual interpretation. Since 2003 I'm still using Windows XP professional for both my shack and small home based business, I suppose some would consider that outdated after 10 years and with its VISTA replacement. If or when my XP poops the bed I will be eagerly looking toward the FUTURE (10 yrs.??) by so called upgrading to my XYL's Windows 7 lap top which has been put away in the closet due to her recent purchase of a smarter than her Smart phone. The only use I have for touch and drag is for writing :Clean Me: on my daughter's car.

I went 64bit nearly 7 years ago with Vista. Then I moved to 7 briefly then on to 8 all 64 bit. I like crashing the 3.2 gig barrier of 32 bit XP and no swap file.

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--------------------------------------Ham since 1969.... Old School 20 WPM Extra

Although I have no need for an 8.1 OS I have seen it's advantage and usefulness in one particular area. Unfortunately my mother in law is a dementia resident in a local nursing home where the management has switched over to the 8 OS for patients use. I have witnessed this as a God send to the beginning and mid level dementia patients who can now easier use the computers because of the touch and drag option which is also a an advantage with those who have arthritic hands and fingers and previously had trouble with the key board.

Since 2003 I'm still using Windows XP professional for both my shack and small home based business,

Since MS is dropping all security updates for XP next spring, I'd be hesitant to run any business, even a "small home-based business" on XP after that point. Ham Shack? Sure, it is a hobby and what really is there to lose except your logbooks, etc; but a business?

I want a 27" monitor. Tablets and smartphones don't provide that.I want a full-sized keyboard. Tablets and smartphones don't provide that.Windows 8 is designed for tablets and smartphones. I find tablets usefull as e-readers (and not as useful as laptops - but more portable). For everything else I want a desktop. I haven't found a need for touch screens, although I can see that there are applications for which they are useful.

I used MS Office up to Office 2003. Then Office stared updating every year or two; they never added any features that I particularly wanted, and they changed their file format every time to 'encourage' users to buy the newer version. In fact, when one state tried to mandate that all official documents had to be in open-document format, Microsoft sued (and won). Microsoft is apparently legally entitled to its 'revenue stream'.

So I switched to Libre Office. Does everything MS Office does, and it's free. In fact, I discovered that the latest version of MS Access wouldn't open an Access 1.0 database, but Libre Office would open that old MS Access database!

I used PhotoShop a lot. It's a powerful program and works well, but the last few updates made only cosmetic changes and added a few features nobody uses - once a program has matured, it doesn't need bug-fixes any more. But software vendors have to do something to get existing users to pay them more money...

PhotoShop is an expensive program, and piracy was rampant. So Adobe added all sorts of piracy prevention measures, most of which inconvenienced their less sophisticated paying customers (they tend to be artists, not computer whizzes). I've known licensed users who actually used pirated copies to avoid the hassles associated with their legitimate copies of the software.

The final straw was that Adobe has decided to stop selling stand-alone software. They only sell 'subscriptions'; dunno how that works, but presumably it won't work without an internet connection. And it provides a 'revenue stream' for Adobe.

But GIMP provides software that does everything PhotoShop does (except to spend millions on advertising). I've only spent about a month with GIMP, but so far, I haven't found anything GIMP cannot do while PhotoShop can.

GIMP is, of course, free.

The constant news stories about data breaches should be enough to convince anyone to steer clear of cloud computing, as should the lack of reliability of internet connections. But if you choose faith in preference to evidence, then try backing two terabytes of data to the cloud.

By the time you get that done, Windows will have undergone another two major revisions.

I haven't entirely switched to Linux just yet; some of my data is in propriety formats that the windows software won't export to non-proprietary formats. Some of that I'll have to print out to Adobe .pdf so I don't lose it entirely. But most of the programs I use have Linux equivalents that can read the windows datafiles.

I also have a Linux distribution called Knoppix that will boot off a CD, DVD, or flash drive (depending on your BIOS), so I can boot any computer into Linux. I have five computers running at my workstation; four are running Knoppix and one runs Windows 7.

One of the things that fascinated me about computers in the 1960s is that you could make them do anything. For many years, IT departments tried to control what users could do by giving users limited privileges through dumb terminals on time-shared computers.

Then in the 1980s the personal computer exploded that model by giving the user direct access to (and control of) the CPU and the data storage facility. IT departments have been trying to regain control ever since.

If you're the IT department of a giant bank or the telephone company, such control is essential to your business.

If you're a software vendor trying to protect your income stream, you have to design your product to ensnare the user by means of proprietary data formats, and then fool the user into buying your product despite the fact that non-proprietary and arguably better products are out there for free. That's the one thing Bill Gates and Steve Jobs were good at.

But there's still plenty of Steve Wozniaks out there. Those of use who don't want to buy Windows 8 have choices...

I want a 27" monitor. Tablets and smartphones don't provide that.I want a full-sized keyboard. Tablets and smartphones don't provide that.Windows 8 is designed for tablets and smartphones....

Ditto. I also want a good size monitor and a full feature keyboard.

Windows 8 was designed for tablets--AND to use on standard computers. A sort of merged system to transition users away from the traditional computer platforms. Microsoft felt that this is the way to get users to buy modern systems--but it backfired. Yes, some users are happy, but a lot of users are NOT!

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...So I switched to Libre Office. Does everything MS Office does, and it's free. In fact, I discovered that the latest version of MS Access wouldn't open an Access 1.0 database, but Libre Office would open that old MS Access database!....

Same with Open Office which is the program I use. It will work with just about any type document too.

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...PhotoShop is an expensive program, and piracy was rampant. So Adobe added all sorts of piracy prevention measures, most of which inconvenienced their less sophisticated paying customers (they tend to be artists, not computer whizzes). I've known licensed users who actually used pirated copies to avoid the hassles associated with their legitimate copies of the software.

The final straw was that Adobe has decided to stop selling stand-alone software. They only sell 'subscriptions'; dunno how that works, but presumably it won't work without an internet connection. And it provides a 'revenue stream' for Adobe....

I was 'given' a copy of photoshop when I worked for a newspaper. I pulled it off my machine when my employment there ended. Media Center, Photo viewer, (both Microsoft) and Canon Utilities, (image browser EX) does fine for me now.

This--the subscription, that is--is what I was referring to about cloud computing and fees. Even the newer windows versions (according to some sources) will have minimal software sold and installed,and will run mostly off the cloud. Hey, that's progress--but no thank you. I want my system to be able to do what I want it to--when I want it to do it. If the ISP goes down or I don't have immediate access, I still want a useable system. In the direction windows and the newer machines are going, I can't have that, and I refuse to pay for something that I can't have access to sometimes.

Heck, I even bought a game once that was 'revised' and updated, and I found out that the on-line dealer's update actually erased the executable from my machine's hard drive during a major update. Every time I brought up the game, the machine would connect to the internet to run. No internet, no game--and I only found out when my ISP went down one day. I found the executable on line and deleted the game manager--now the game runs from my hard drive again.

I will NEVER buy another piece of software from that company--Pop Cap Games, just like I won't buy subscriptions to any software--where the software maker/dealer will most likely terminate your useage rights if you don't continue to pay. Such schemes certainly will stop pirating, but since I don't 'pirate' in the first place....

So go ahead and embrace the future. Until there is a better 'future', some of us will remain in the past--through choice.

It's not that K1CJS wants to cling to the past. He thinks that if he pays for a piece of software, he should own it. not a license to use the software at the whim of a company. he clearly stated that if his ISP went down, he cant use a program, or in the case of a cloud based computer, use it for anything.

It's not that K1CJS wants to cling to the past. He thinks that if he pays for a piece of software, he should own it. not a license to use the software at the whim of a company. he clearly stated that if his ISP went down, he cant use a program, or in the case of a cloud based computer, use it for anything.

Ted - KA8SEP

Well you own 8.x and you can own office or rent it by year. Actually the rent option for MS software is not as bad as it seems because you get any updates during that year and also it only cost 100 a year total for up to 5 PC's. In tablet world if you get Win RT, it comes with Word, Excel, Powerpoint and Outlook 2013 for free. Plus you can still use Office 2007 or 2010 or other solutions. As far as ISP provided software, as long as they are not a small operation there is little cause for concern

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--------------------------------------Ham since 1969.... Old School 20 WPM Extra

It's not that K1CJS wants to cling to the past. He thinks that if he pays for a piece of software, he should own it. not a license to use the software at the whim of a company. he clearly stated that if his ISP went down, he cant use a program, or in the case of a cloud based computer, use it for anything.

Ted - KA8SEP

Well you own 8.x and you can own office or rent it by year. Actually the rent option for MS software is not as bad as it seems because you get any updates during that year and also it only cost 100 a year total for up to 5 PC's. In tablet world if you get Win RT, it comes with Word, Excel, Powerpoint and Outlook 2013 for free. Plus you can still use Office 2007 or 2010 or other solutions. As far as ISP provided software, as long as they are not a small operation there is little cause for concern

Unless you have your app on a laptop or tablet and you want to use it somewhere where there is no wifi. Then you are SOL.

No, in actuality, I cannot own it, but I can own the rights to use it under the terms in effect at the time that I purchased those rights. Even the variations of the Windows OS aren't actually owned by anyone but Microsoft--individuals 'own' only the rights to use the software.

The real point I am trying to make is that once I have put out the money to purchase those rights, I don't want to have to depend on the whims of the software owner to use them--or the possibility of them summarily withdraw those rights--as long as I do not break the terms of the agreement those rights operate under. These things may well happen when the software is cloud based rather than individual machine based. Likewise if the software company that owns the rights either goes out of business, is bought out, or merges with another larger company, what happens to the software that has been leased--the right to use it may summarily disappear!

We've already seen an example of what can happen when something like that does happen. How about the communications magazine that was bought out--and how the 'lifetime' subscriptions were transferred to another on-line only publication--then were summarily ended. How about the rights of those who had the lifetime subscriptions?

I also do not agree that if I do not temporarily have an internet connection--a connection to the cloud--that I should not have the access to the software that I have paid for.

Cloud computing is all well and good, but I think that the possibility of someone else accessing my files and records is multiplied way too many times if I do commit them to the cloud, and likewise the possibility of losing the rights--never mind the use of (if I have no internet connection available) the software that is leased and remains in the cloud. At least when such software is actually on my computer, that cannot happen, and I prefer it that way.

Since 2003 I'm still using Windows XP professional for both my shack and small home based business,

Since MS is dropping all security updates for XP next spring, I'd be hesitant to run any business, even a "small home-based business" on XP after that point. Ham Shack? Sure, it is a hobby and what really is there to lose except your logbooks, etc; but a business?

Microsoft is at the Cross-Road ... and is hesitating (Steve Ballmer leaving).MS Windows XP has been the most stable and far reaching operating system platform thatMicrosoft has produced (over 10 years since release).

Corporate America is in the same boat (MS Windows XP security support ending in 2014)Upgrading to Windows 7 (and somewhat 8.1) is the short-term tactical play,providing a few more years of operations. Corporate America is taking this road -- with a BYOD policy for tablets.

I have windows8 on one drive and 8.1 on another. Rather than use a dual boot program I swap drives in the bios. Also have 8.1 installation disk generated by the 8/8.1 trick mentioned earlier. Needed for refresh and reset operations. Not obvious how to create a restore point in 8.1 to get there run "sysdm.cpl".For my uses I have not found 8.1 to be of a significant advantage. Its major disadvantage for me is the inability to install vspmgr which I need to obtain band data from my flex 3000. Although I can do so in 8 using compatibility install I can't in 8.1. If anybody has a work around for this please let me know.

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