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Should we "uncork" McRoberts?

I'm not really sure how I want to word this, but I feel as if Josh McRoberts has an extremely unique skill set for someone of his size. It's probably why there was so much hype around the guy in high school and college (cdash for king of the obvious). But here's my question: Should we start trying to utilize more of this guy's skill set? Maybe let him handle the ball and try to take it to bigger, slower guys who can't stay with them. He looks to pass a little too often, I think he should be more aggressive around the rim. It's not like he has no post moves, it's just that he never uses them. He could draw a lot of fouls if he went at guys a little more. Basically, I think he is being underutilized on offense. What sort of things do you guys think he is capable of that might be a benefit to this team down the stretch?

Re: Should we "uncork" McRoberts?

I loved the way he played tonight.

He's always out there making things better for his teammates, but his "problem" is that he's thinking pass 1st, 2nd and 3rd, then scoring 4th. He's a really good finisher and has some solid footwork. He should be good enough to drive to the basket and use a spin move to get free if he cannot get off a shot. I'd also like to see him take a few baseline jumpers. I think he can average 10-12 pts/game.

Re: Should we "uncork" McRoberts?

He's always out there making things better for his teammates, but his "problem" is that he's thinking pass 1st, 2nd and 3rd, then scoring 4th. He's a really good finisher and has some solid footwork. He should be good enough to drive to the basket and use a spin move to get free if he cannot get off a shot. I'd also like to see him take a few baseline jumpers. I think he can average 10-12 pts/game.

Other than that, there's not much I can complain about with Josh.

Yeah, his athleticism and body control are really great for someone his size.

I was kind of hoping maybe let him do more outlet passes, or let him run a fastbreak if he gets the rebound. Have faith in him to take it down there and make the right pass or take it to the hole.

Re: Should we "uncork" McRoberts?

Josh rarely takes what I would call a bad shot. He either takes the shot within his range of skill or makes the pass. With that type of decision making, he could certainly be trusted to push the right opportunities, so I think involving him more would be a good thing.

I also believe we are partially wasting George's length and athleticism by not posting him a lot more. I don't know of a SG in the league capable of defending him in the post.

Re: Should we "uncork" McRoberts?

Yeah, his athleticism and body control are really great for someone his size.

I was kind of hoping maybe let him do more outlet passes, or let him run a fastbreak if he gets the rebound. Have faith in him to take it down there and make the right pass or take it to the hole.

I think he already does this way more than the normal PF. Every defensive board has him quickly looking for the long pass, and if that's not there he's more than willing to push it up court himself. If anything he F'd that up vs Miami once where he dribbled himself into trouble.

As for aggression to the rim, he's regularly getting power dunks taking his man off the dribble, maybe once every 2 games, so I don't think he's got any problem with that.

If by "aggression" you mean taken a FG every 2 minutes of court time ala Tyler, I'm going to have to pass on that. Tyler brings his own unique plays, but he can't bring the vertical scoring in traffic like Josh can, he's just more willing to throw the ball up at the rim regardless of shot quality.

I'm not stopping Tyler from being himself, but Tyler's game is not one that should be emulated, apart from his motor and FT%.

I actually think the balance right now is working extremely well and I don't see a major need to "fix" the PF spot.

One thing I've noticed is Josh gets the ball stripped an absurd amount when driving around the rim for someone with such good handles. I'm not really sure why.

I think this is a legit criticism. I think it's due to his freewheeling style. He's playing up and open which benefits him in the open court but burns him when he gets to traffic. Again, Tyler goes into lock mode where he's scoring no matter what the shot quality is going to be, so he tends to clamp down better whereas Josh is trying to keep a PG type of dribble going past the point that it's safe to pull off.

Re: Should we "uncork" McRoberts?

I think he already does this way more than the normal PF. Every defensive board has him quickly looking for the long pass, and if that's not there he's more than willing to push it up court himself. If anything he F'd that up vs Miami once where he dribbled himself into trouble.

As for aggression to the rim, he's regularly getting power dunks taking his man off the dribble, maybe once every 2 games, so I don't think he's got any problem with that.

If by "aggression" you mean taken a FG every 2 minutes of court time ala Tyler, I'm going to have to pass on that. Tyler brings his own unique plays, but he can't bring the vertical scoring in traffic like Josh can, he's just more willing to throw the ball up at the rim regardless of shot quality.

I'm not stopping Tyler from being himself, but Tyler's game is not one that should be emulated, apart from his motor and FT%.

I actually think the balance right now is working extremely well and I don't see a major need to "fix" the PF spot.

I'm not advocating a fix or Josh emulating Tyler (Tyler's game is something that can't be replicated unless you are an animal to begin with).

Josh does these things, but I want to see if we can't maximize the guy's unique talents. I don't want him to force shots, but I think sometimes he passes when he could easily score a basket or get to the free throw line.

I mean, I hear you and Mackey and others talk about how much potential this guy has, I am looking for ideas on how we can let loose some of that potential or else I fear that is all it will ever be. How can we maximize this skill set of his?

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Re: Should we "uncork" McRoberts?

I do think he should be urged to look to be more aggressive on offense, but I don't think it should be something forced. If you try to force him to go away from what is natural to him you are going to end up with a completely different player that you don't want. So I say encourage him to, but don't demand it.

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Re: Should we "uncork" McRoberts?

I think Josh is VERY CAPABLE of putting up points...

I just think right now he relishes in his role on this team, and ACTUALLY realizing his dream of getting a good amount of playtime, while now starting at the 4 .. We are just seeing him grow before our eyes IMO.

When Voldemort was coaching , I remember Josh saying at that time , he was comfortable being the 4th scoring option out on the floor..I don't know if he was just doing lip service under the circumstances , or if he just isn't comfortable yet with the responsibility of being "the man" on a team ..I think as time passes , we will see a more hungry to win Josh McRoberts and he will start scoring more often than not.. I believe Vogel will pump him up and make him realize that he has the raw skillsets to be a star caliber player ... IF .. he commits himself to getting better to reach that goal.....

and THAT is pretty much up to Josh ..

I think the skill is there... but I think Josh needs to believe it ..

.
I know McRoberts could reach averages of
14-16 points , 10-12 Rebounds 4.7 assists and maybe a steal and a block per game

Last edited by Kemo; 02-17-2011 at 04:41 AM.

"They want to be famous. We want to be champions. They want to be rappers and backup dancers. We want to play football." - T.J. Ward, Denver Broncos

Re: Should we "uncork" McRoberts?

not sure i want mcroberts to be as aggressive as tyler. tyler's aggressive style can be as much of a detriment to the team as it is a positive. if anything, i'd prefer tyler played more like mcroberts in assessing the situation out on the court before bulldozing his way through 3 defenders and inevitably taking a shot.

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Re: Should we "uncork" McRoberts?

At the risk of causing an outrage, Josh's overall game is reminiscent of Josh Smith. They have quite similar skillsets.

McBob's production per-36 vs. a 23-year old Smith's production per-36...

Kind of fascinating.

I'd say his upside, per-36 minutes, would be around 13-15 ppg, 9 rpg, 3-4 apg and 1-1.5 bpg. Basically, what he's doing now with a little more scoring. He has the makings of an excellent jack-of-all-trades role player.

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Re: Should we "uncork" McRoberts?

With Josh the question is what do you value in a power forward. I you want a Dale Davis type (and who doesn't), then Josh isn't your guy.

Do you think Josh could be a top ten Power forward. Again it depends on what you value. He will never be a Kevin Mchale, with the great post moves and low post scoring nor will he be a david west, with the great mid range game. He does have a unique skill set that could make him a top ten forward, when you consider his passing, dunking, ball handling in the open court. I think he just needs to continue to improve on the things he does and he may not need to be Dale, Kevin or David. We may be happy with him being Josh.

Good is the enemy of Great

We're changing the identity of our basketball team -- dramatically. We're a power post team -- a blood-and-guts, old-school, smash-mouth team that plays with size, strength, speed and athleticism. We attack the basket. . . . This is the new identity of our team. It was a great effort. I'm very proud of our guys."
-- Frank Vogel.

Re: Should we "uncork" McRoberts?

Josh dribbles that ball up at this chin no matter where he is on the court. It's why you can't ISO him anywhere near the hoop, he's a turnover waiting to happen. It's fine when he runs the break off a rebound, but it's a disaster in half court sets.

Re: Should we "uncork" McRoberts?

I think it's due to the fact that he dribbles high and away from his body a lot of times. Works great in the open court, not so much in traffic.

I noticed this a LOT against Detroit because I was looking for why we kept getting the ball taken away. To Josh's credit he didn't give it up like I thought that dribble would because he is very aware of who is around him, but it scared the doodoo out of me a couple of times.

BillS

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

Re: Should we "uncork" McRoberts?

He can be a damn good role player. 15-20 minutes a nite - preferably off the bench.

When we start bringing him off the bench, that means we have 'true' PF starting. The team will be a lot better at that point.

I like the kid. I like his energy. Energy only goes so far in the NBA. Talent is the important tning. He has some, but not enough to even sniff being a top 10 in the league.

I would like to see someone make a list of the top ten power forwards in the league along with their ages and see how far Josh is off from being one of them. I just don't see that many great PF in the league.

Good is the enemy of Great

We're changing the identity of our basketball team -- dramatically. We're a power post team -- a blood-and-guts, old-school, smash-mouth team that plays with size, strength, speed and athleticism. We attack the basket. . . . This is the new identity of our team. It was a great effort. I'm very proud of our guys."
-- Frank Vogel.

Re: Should we "uncork" McRoberts?

I think he already does this way more than the normal PF. Every defensive board has him quickly looking for the long pass, and if that's not there he's more than willing to push it up court himself. If anything he F'd that up vs Miami once where he dribbled himself into trouble.

I agree with this, but I do not recall anyone being critical of his defensive passing or ability to get the ball up the court. These are his strengths.

As for aggression to the rim, he's regularly getting power dunks taking his man off the dribble, maybe once every 2 games, so I don't think he's got any problem with that.

This is where we disagree a bit. Many times Josh has his man beaten off the dribble & has the ability to take it strong & way too often either passes off despite his advantage, or he hesitates or does not go up as strong as he is capable of because his eyes are in the paint & not on the rim. Josh has the athleticism & skill to beat guys off his dribble & take it hard to the rim much more then "maybe once every 2 games", thus the question from the OP. While Josh is no Blake Griffen, he could use some of Blakes aggression & attitude. Josh has the skill set to do similar things, & be on the radar as someone our opponents need to watch, but he thinks pass first more then any PG on our roster. While I'm not complaining about his passing, he's awsome, I do think he should be more selfish, especially when he has his man beat.

Re: Should we "uncork" McRoberts?

So you got a guy who just turned 24, who is getting 10pt off of 7 shots, 1/3 of his rebounds are offensive, is shooting a high percentage, and is a great passer for his position. But a lot of people here say he has no chance to be a top ten PF. Plus the guy plays pretty good defense.

I think a lot of people here overrate the other PF in the league.

Good is the enemy of Great

We're changing the identity of our basketball team -- dramatically. We're a power post team -- a blood-and-guts, old-school, smash-mouth team that plays with size, strength, speed and athleticism. We attack the basket. . . . This is the new identity of our team. It was a great effort. I'm very proud of our guys."
-- Frank Vogel.