Christian Bale Wants Nolan's BATMAN to Remain Robin-Free?

"If Robin crops up in one of the new Batman films, I'll be chaining myself up somewhere and refusing to go to work." - Christian Bale

Not much wiggle room there, right? Normally, I'd agree, but there's one problem: the source is World Entertainment News Network aka WENN aka the highly unreliable gossip mongers who supply the IMDb with their steady stream of oft-debunked "scoops". The quote is getting a bit of traction because it was picked up by NEW YORK MAGAZINE's "Vulture" blog; I like those guys, but this is 100% dubious until we get confirmation from Bale's camp. (Though the introduction of Robin into Nolan's Gotham City does seem highly unlikely at this point.)
I still haven't seen THE DARK KNIGHT yet, and I'm getting cranky. It's all I want to write about. Thank god for Roland Emmerich's 2012, which I read today and will be discussing with y'all very shortly. Do you like crevices?

Actually I loved BB so much and am so looking forward to DK that until I saw this news bit I swear that I hadn't even THOUGHT of Robin being introduced into this revamped universe. The character literally had been pushed from my mind. And frankly, the more I think about it, regardless of whether this quote is real or not) I hope they don't do it. Seems to me there's plenty of movies and time for Batman to BE Batman and prove he's the World's Greatest Detective all on his own and as a solo act fighting his rogues gallery of villains. On the other hand, sexist ape that I am, they should feel free to introduce an uber hot Talia at any time since I'd like a higher babe factor in these movies. Come on, it's also Bruce Wayne, world's wealthiest and swingest bachelor! Christian Bale needs to give Robert Downey jr a run for his money!

That it wouldn't come off campy. Also the big consideration would be the costume. I think they'd have to do some major work so it looks cool alongside Batman. I think they actually did a good job of it in Batman Forever but here it would need to look realistic and functional.
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One big thing is that they shouldn't have Dick Grayson be a kid. But I think Nolan's too smart for that anyway. Yeah he'd have to be a teen or a young looking guy like they did with Chris O'Donnell. But they would need a much better actor to pull it off.

They should bring in Robin, but make it dark. It can be done, and it would be awesome if Nolan did it, cause he could have The Joker kill Robin I and have Robin II become Nightwing later on, or however it went.

The whole reason Robin was introduced in the comics was to downplay the dark image of Batman and provide a character that young comic book readers could identify with. These films are neither light or for young kids. So, there is no need for Robin at all.

this man would make a PERFECT foil and comrodarie with bale's Batman, and a clever nod as continuation in tying all those previous Batmans together! Can you imagine the two kicking ass? He can even prove he has overcome the nipples by taking a sander and sanding them off this time!

Fucking right. I hate Robin in the comics and I hate him more in the movies. Were I Bale I'd say exactly that, but he of course never did, I'd imagine that he and Nolan are on the same page and he'd have little question about the future of the franchise.

Christian Bale doesn't want Robin, then I guess the whole fucking world has to stop and make sure that Bale isn't subjected to Robin. Does Bale only want blue M&M's in his trailer as well? How about only his make-up man from Banglidesh be flown in for every film just to make sure his hair is washed with a certain berry formula. How about if before Morgan Freeman delivers any line with the authority we've come to expect from one Mr. Freeman, a Grip from the film crew is forced to give Bale a hand-job? Hey Bale, what if Michael Caine is up for an Oscar but you're filming the second sequel to Batman Begins; will you force him to skip his big night,just like Jaws:The Revenge? What a fucking arrogant piece of shit. Sincerely,
Dick Grayson

I personally have no desire to see Robin appear - be it Dick Grayson, Jason Todd, Tim Drake, Stephanie Brown, or Carrie Kelley (which wouldn't really even be valid but I figured I would cover that element) or in any form or variation of said character, Nightwing, et al. I don't see how the character could work in this story.

Robin is in fact so weird-for all the reasons you wrote and more-that not even Nolan could do a cool Robin. Nobody can. Robin is not cool, and he turns Batman from an awesome caped crusader to a creepy old guy with money and a penchant for damaged young boys. And you mentioned my favorite Batman ever, the cliffhanger where readers vote on Robins fate, I voted and was thrilled to find I was in the majority.

Shia could play a tough streetwise Robin who would fit into Nolan's universe. Seriously that's how you make Batman films. The third film in any Batman series must have a Robin. And in the fourth film the Batmobile must have blacklight ground effects.

The spotlight for Dark Knight is ENTIRELY on Heath Ledger's performance. Shit, I had to rewatch Batman Begins the other day to ensure I'd actually care about Batman/Bruce Wayne in the movie. Bale's constant favorable comments on Ledger's performance give no hint that he is worried about "sharing the spotlight". Bale seems like a class act to me.

Strapped to a bomb, made by the Joker who's laughing hysterically as he pushes the button... It could work. Robins big place in the bat-verse is a joke by the Joker What's yellow, green and red all over? :)

And have the proposed costume from Twilight of the Superheroes where he looks more like a Ninja. Plus Nightwing is more believable to an audience, put more Kali into his martial arts and Kali sticks and you have Jason Bourne fighting alongside Batman.

It should set up his death in a 4th film. I think that is the only use full purpose for Robin. I doubt Nolan will do Robin though I'll wait and see what happens in Dark Knight but I feel as if Two Face's story will cross over into the third film. Now for the third movie who will the other villain be? Poison Ivy, Mr. Freeze, Clay Face, and Scar face these sci-fi type baddies I think Nolan avoids. That leaves really the Riddler and a realistic Penguin or Catwoman sadly which we've all seen before. Maybe Hush I don't know but I do like to think about it.

Ive never like robin as a character. He always seemed out of place in the Batman universe. Like someone somewhere decided Batman needed a sidekick who spewed one liners to lighten up the mood. He should have been killed off a long time ago IMO.

...in Nolan's Batman. None. Robin had his day with the previous series and look what a screw up that was. The only reason to bring Robin in would be to start a three-part Bane arc where Robin becomes Nightwing when the BAT gets his back broke...but that 'aint ever going to happen...which means, no Robin.

First : The Flying Graysons. To early to introduce. 2:The Bats environment hasnt become suitably aliemated and lonely enough to need to have Robin yet. One of the points of the character of Robin is to pull The Bat back from the brink of the abyss from the darkness. 3: Robins costume: A LOT of thought is going to have to go into figuring what it will be like. 4: Age of the actor to play Robin. Nolan should cast a proper child/boy in the role, to show the dubious nature of The Bat allowing essentially a CHILD ( and not some sub par 20 year old) to be exposed to danger death and guns. 5: Robins figting style acrobatics: They will need a parkour practioner the same size as robin to pull of stunts and moves that The Bat wouldnt even THINK about.
So to sum up at this point in the Nolan, Bat universe Robin isnt needed yet. Things will have to be more dark and grim before Robin's introduction.

July 3, 2008, 2:35 a.m. CST

by Rommel Catuncan

What about a Robin film on his own. Armand Hammer is at the beginning of the movie and hands Robin his "mantle" and the keys to the cabana and then Robin wanders off and fights crime in the city. Swinging building to building and shit.

Robin worked in the Adam West version because like the premise of that show, Robin was campy and stupid. Robin's always been the weak part of Batman and I dont recall any story that I've read involving him that I thought worked. But maybe thats just me. If anyoune can think of a way to pull it off it would be Nolan. But for me its a case of it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Robin is a good character. In the comics he has to deal with a lot of shit. The problem is that everyone STILL has a mental picture of Burt Ward from the 60's show in their head. The robin in the comics NOW is sort of vigilante who could go into a den of gunned up gangbangers and beat the shit out of them for SPORT. Robin in the comics is a little vicious kid you dont mess with. If Nolan does take Robin into the Bat universe then he has to make sure that we are not reminded of the Burt Ward campery from the TV show. And for the clowns dissing Robin, no shoot your mouth off unless you have kept up with the Bat comics. Dont pass comment on something you dont know, support or read.Go and buy some Robin comics from this year to see what the character is REALLY like. Do your homework.

But I'd rather they didn't try. A movie Robin would have to be a mix of the Grayson and Drake Robins... he has to be named Dick Grayson because the general public thinks that's the only Robin, and Tim Drake, in addition to not wearing the y-fronts, has a more interesting origin story, character-wise, where he's a Batman fan who sees him coming unhinged and tracks him down and all that. So it'd have to be in a movie where Batman goes a little nuts in the beginning.
Or he could go completely nuts, All-Star Batman&Robin style, which would make an awesome movie. Well it'd make a stupid movie, but "I'm the goddamn batman!" screamed over and over and the yellow-painted apartment would be kinda awesome.

It doesn't matter how good Robin is in the comics, to the public at large they'll never shake that negative stereotype about eternal bachelor Bruce Wayne taking in a young boy and spending his nights with him dressed up in tight costumes...

Yes, that's right. Crispin Glover. Every lazy fanboy's automatic first choice for casting any role under the fucking sun. It's a moot point anyway -- Nolan is already on the record stating that there will be no Robin in his movies anyway, so get over it.

Batman TAS did it extremely well which lead to the excellent Batman and Robin cartoon series. Nolan can work Robin in with much more class than his predecessors. ANd then we can get Batgirl. Would love to see Catwoman come into this series too. But I have faith in the film makers, they seem to be doing the right thing so far.

didnt nolan say he wasnt interested in telling that story?
The only way it could work is if it happens in a 4th film.... a second trilogy. i liked the way they introduced robin in batman forever (even if the film did suck) but to find a way of introducing him into Nolans Gotham will be very difficult. I'd make him a bad guy who wants to change his ways, and slowly build up the trust over another 3 films.

If Robin was younger than they normally do, and sort of uncontrollabel by Wayne, he could Train him as a form of self control.
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He should only vere be used as a spy/scout/lookout type of thinsg for Bats, under strict orders to not get into the fighting, then show him getting nmore restless and them drifting apart as he goes through his teenage maturing.
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This could actually work quite well under Nolans type of Bat Universe, much better than 20 something Chris O'Donnel, which was just awful in so many ways.
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Wont miss him if he is never in it, and he should not appear for some time yet if he is, Batman is too young yet, remeber this is only the second film and we started with how Batman becomes Batman.
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Far too early to be discussing Robin

Hes a tragic figure like Bruce, except as he gets older he starts to disagree with his methods in bringing Justice to Gotham. This storyline can be done right if they try, and not hoaky like Bale is scared of.

as long it lasts five minutes and ends with his being eviscerated. I think that would fit nicely into Nolan's version of Batman.
It could actually work if he was a crazy Batman fan who goes out trying to act like a hero and gets murdered, but that's really the only way.

in the next film as a young kid, tragically orphaned, that would inevitably remind Bruce of himself. He doesn't have to become Robin instantly, but he could be an apprentice. Batman, after all, is pretty much a delusional psychopath and Robin represents his humanity.

...can be introduced in a realistic way, is if they actually have the balls to write in a gay/bi storyline, where Batman struggles with his new found feelings for this perky young man. Interesting character development and all.

My instinct tells me this might be the kind of direction to take. They'd have to update the Robin mythos substantially A big gap between the death of the Flying Graysons and him coming to meet Batman, My ideas- Don't have Batman coming across Dick Grayson, until after he is already essentially Robin, but not the boy wonder, more like an out of control vengeful vigilante with serious, serious anger issues..<P><P> Dick Grayson following the death of his parents could be living like a real robin, living ferally in the nests/homes of criminals who have been sent to the hospital while they are gone.. He has no grounding, as a vigilante, he goes too far and as a person he's absolutely a failure, He's essentially Batman without the technology, without discipline and without an Alfred to give him any kind of moral compass.
Originally Batman sets out to catch him, but on realising who he is and what happened to Dicks' Parents, he tries to save him,
Batman catches him going too far at crime scene, and decides to help him to stop him turning into what he looks set to become. Robin can be Mirror to Batman and also his shot at redemption in some ways.. Having said that, I haven't seen the Dark Knight and what happens there might render this idea completely more worthless than the fan spec it is...

I mean, they're not doing The Penguin, either, and I'm willing to bet there won't be a Catwoman.
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Nolan's going for the realistic approach, which I can appreciate. However, I think he gets lost in his details and certain things that he DOES do are just as unbelievable as, say, Clayface.
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Ultimately, including Robin would be just too much of a challenge, and I doubt Nolan is capable of bring it about. Call me a cynic, but I don't regard him as the infallible genius that so many do. Not that I don't like him, though.

Bat starting to think about legacy, and takes him in, start training the boy, so he can be better than him one day. Then in the climax the kid suits up, AGAINST Wayne's orders and helps out. Not a sidekick, but a successor. A contingency if someone happens to Bruce.

Not only are you Not Spock, but there's definite potential in that there idea. Might not be "real" enough for this very realistic, serious crime drama franchise - about a man who DRESSES LIKE A FUCKING BAT TO FIGHT CRIME!<P>
THAT'S why I hated BEGINS, and fear for DARK KNIGHT: because if that scoop above IS true, Bale seriously doesn't understand what he's in: a FUCKING COMIC BOOK MOVIE! It's NOT HEAT 2!!!

...in my opinion would be, if they made robin really young (like about 10 or 12 years old) and a bit disturbed because he saw his parents die. maybe he then starts as some sort of batman-copycat, trying to avenge his parents death. think home-alone-kevin meets michael myers. also his name should be inspired by robin hood like in the original comic
but actually i think robin is pretty unnessecary.

She's mentally fucked up, and her story could definitely fit into Nolan's universe. A lot of people seem to be opposed to Robin because of all the homoerotic baggage that character seems to bring, but if Wayne took Cass under his wing that obviously wouldn't be an issue.

When I read this but after all of the mentions here I now know for a fact he would get that gig. And he will probably replace whoever played Jimmy Olsen if they make another Superman. And one of the X men kids.

...isn't that much weirder than a millionaire who learned his fighting skills from a cult that burns down cities since something like the beginning of time and now dresses up as a bat and hunts down people like a psychiatrist with a bag on his hat and a scarred guy who thinks that he is a clown?

and my knowledge of Batman come from the movies and a few of the cartoons when I was a kid. I basically know nothing of it. So, my question is this: With BB and TDK being made as realistically as possible and excluding the more fantastical elements, how many more Villains can there be? Who else can be used? Are there a lot of characters without super powers or who's power can be explained away with science? Just curious as I think this series has a lot of potential to go on for a couple more movies at least, does the source material have enough interesting villains?

...as a homeless, disfigured sewer-dweller with some serious muscles. Scarface would work as well. He's just a schizo ventriloquist with a gangster doll. Mad Hatter would just be a crazy dude with an Alice in Wonderland fixation. The Riddler of course. Also Catwoman, Penguin, Poison Ivy, etc. Oh, and Toymaker, a dude with an arsenal of deadly toys. Most of Batman's villains could be done realistically, come to think of it (minus Man-Bat and Clayface).

doing Robin and making him fit into a franchise like Nolan's takes balls and talent. Film (or art) is not about doing what fits and is easy all the time. The greatest films take risks, and Robin is a character that has never been done right before. Kudos to the filmmaker with the balls and talent to make it happen. Remember, at one time... they said Keaton could never work as Batman and Ledger could never work as Joker. Now, they say Robin would never fit. The truth is, "they" say a lot of things.

...but Ellen Page would look cute as all hell in a Robin costume. Seriously, just dress her like Miller did in "The Dark Knight Returns." Of course, they would have to cast Clint Eastwood as an aging Bats to really make it work.

Please dear god please DO NOT INTRODUCE ROBIN INTO THESE NEW FILMS. Please? If I had my druthers, and sadly, I don't, I would have Robin expunged from the DC universe entirely. He's a crappy character, and a deeply uncool homosexual pedophile rape fantasy in speedos and elf shoes. If anyone had any sense, they would retcon him out of the DCU entirely.

All it takes is a little reading of the material, plot arc and situation. Material: Robin exists and the WB execs / GA will start asking for "him". Plot arc: I haven't seen it yet but if the "Batman fails" thing is true then Bruce will be at that dark, low point at the end of TDK. Situation: The Nolanverse Batman has "realism". So no kids, no teens and no grown men calling themselves "Robin". The only way is a actress just or almost in her twenties. No "gay" shit there. Plus, someone brought up Shia so I thought of Megan. Y'know, as you do...

Bruce Wayne, tired of the same old thing, decides to join NAMBLA to just to see what it's like. He goes to a meeting and it feels pretty creepy until Dick walks into the room in his speedos and elf shoes. (cue "At Last (My Love Has Come Along" as sung by Ella Fitzgerald.) Bruce is taken aback by the 14 year old's acrobatic prowess and tight buns. Their eyes meet, and a legend, a deeply creepy and uncool legend, is born. <br><br>Btw, does anyone else want to start a petition to retcon Robin out of the DCU? I call it the Batman Is Not A Homosexual Pedophile Initiative (BINAHPI) and it needs your help. Please. Give to the cause of saving Batman from NAMBLAfication. Thank you.

Clayface (Basil Karlo) of course wouldn't likely be a giant shapeshifting monster, but he could be portrayed like his original 40's comic appearances where he's a master of disguise who can change appearances and impersonate others with his talent as an actor/make up artist. Pamela Isley could be an eco terrorist who creates various biological weapons and poison. Victor Freeze could be a scientist who uses cryogenic weaponry. And Scarface wouldn't be hard at all, I'd actually love to see what kind of fucking disturbing puppet Nolan would come up with.

We all know what happened with the last screen version of Robin!
No more flimsy wishy washy faggotry
please,this is a Nolan movie after all...Batman is a lone hero and should stay that way in Nolan`s universe!
Robin FFS!

As it would bring the Master/Disciple stoyline from Batman Begins full circle, where Batman becomes his own version of Rhas, teaching a pupil in the ways of the Bat to purge Gotham of evil. It would bring Batman's origin, featured so prominently in Begins, full circle, as we'd see Wayne projecting his own demons into another child orphaned by the scourge of Gotham, but whom Batman failed to save. And it would be a final evolution of the Batman, into that of a father and a teacher.<p>
Of course, the full-fledged red, yellow, and green Robin of the comics or the TV show would never work in Nolan's universe. Robin would have to be done in a more indirect roundabout realistic way, as they've done with Joker. Perhaps never even really showing young Dick Grayson in costume. Either way, Robin is an important element of Batman's universe. He represents Batman's guilt, an element which would fit right in with fear.

Nolan could make it work. Of course the costume would have to dramatically be changed and I think having him operate in a scout/non-combat capacity would make sense. Maybe give him an Oracle/hacker role.

Seeing as how The Dark Knight is being hailed as the pinnacle of the genre, it could be almost impossible for a 3rd film to match or surpass it. (most superhero franchises get stale by the 3rd film anyway)
In order for the sequel to stay just as fresh, they really need to shake things up.
It would be a perfect fit for Nolan.
There's an infinite amount of psychology and subtext he could explore through these 2 characters and their opposing viewpoints, methodology, camaraderie, antagonism, etc.
There's really no reason NOT for them do it.

Robin absolutely makes no sense except for the reason he was initially created - to appeal to kids. The character is beloved by comic book fans because he's a part of the mythology. Nolan's approach has been to try to make it all as real world as possible and bachelor Bruce Wayne adopting an 11 year old orphan boy in this post-Michael Jackson day and age would never escape public scrutiny.

These are the things Nolan needs to focus on: Introducing the Matches Malone persona. The refurbished cave. The new wheels(either Nascar beast crossed with Dragster or keep the "Tank/Tumbler". Grounded villains. Penguin, Mr Zzasz, Riddler (terrorist type Riddler) A really scary Black Mask etc. THEN and only then introduce Robin. The Bat needs that isolation and darkness first before being helped by the presence of Robin.

I'm a huge Bat Fan but I'll be the first to admit: Robin just doesn't belong in this series. He works pretty well in the comics but there's no way in hell he'd be plausable in Nolans gritty/dangerous world.
And Bales Batman is too emotionaly hardened too take on a ward that would be an obvious achilles heel.

...is that movies aren't like comics. It takes years to make one film, and one can't expect Bale to keep making one Batman movie after another without getting burned out in the role. Nolan as director included. If the filmmakers don't have otherwise concrete plans for a third film, and if there ever was a plan to introduce some version of Robin, the third film might be the best place to do that. Bale, Nolan, and co. might not be around for a fourth film.

I agree with Bale. Robin has obviously been a big part of the Batman universe, but I've never liked him. He's always so... nothing. There's nothing there, just a narrow-shouldered guy in a freakin' orange suit. I know about his backstory, but it's boring compared to Batman's, especially Nolan's Batman.<p>
Think about it: The Dark Knight and... Robin? Eww.

You can't leave Robin OUT of Batman. You sure as fuck can't look to the 60's show as an excuse. If that were the case then you'd be hating on any new attempt at the Joker. <p> I'm not a big fan of Batman begins. I thought it was boring. gritty and dark, yes. interesting, most definately. Captivating? no way. <p> but I enjoy the foundation that it laid down for this next outting, and after seeing the promise of hervey Dent's two face for the next film, I'm sure as hell looking I'm looking forward to seeing how Robin is brought into the fold. <p> If they choose to simply ignor him then they're NOT making batman films. <p> besides, imagine a third or forth film called THE DYNAMIC DUO <p> all you babies saying that the costume wouldn't be any good... I don't care how good this dark knight film ends up being.... that batman costume is fucking horrid

And that's that Batman needs to be an established Gotham fixture that's seasoned and damaged- and TDK is basically Batman: Year Two. We're nowhere close to Robin yet, maybe four or five films of character development away.

Pretty easy fix, I think, if you're looking for a reason for Bruce Wayne to adopt a disadvantaged orphan boy.
You make the Greyson parents personal friends of Bruce, create a connection so that when Dick goes to live with him it's not out of the blue. If you've established Bruce as a godfather figure, then it could work. I'm not sure it's appealing, but at least it doesn't seem perverted even under ridiculous scrutiny (which many of the TBers would apply).

not really... but c'mon... 'the dark knight' sounds pretty pretentious. Imagine it in context. especially if they ARE in fact using their dynamics to compliment each other as they fight crime.... you know.... like in the source material <p> honestly, i don't know what you guys want?

Now that I am thinking of it...scarface in a Nolan movie...this would be chilling...really chilling...thats the baby I wanna see. Bale is right and we all know it. Robin has no place here. A movie like this is 2 hrs..there isnt time to introduce and develop Robins character without messing up Nolan's tone. The Robin of the the comic world has had years to develop and even then they change him...and he is unpopular...remember when DC asked the readers if they wanted Robin dead and they all said a collective YES. Let him be. There's no place for a young man in green tights in Hollywood...unless you're also called Robin...Robin Hood that is...hehehe

The whole point of Bruce Wayne is this lonely vengeful SOB who is out to kick the world's ass for taking his parents's lives. Why in the world would that guy take up a boy "sidekick" and put him in jeopardy every time they go out to fight crime? I love the Nolan-verse and agree that not only should they keep out the dopey "magical" villains like Clayface and Man-Bat but also the dopey heroes as well, i.e. Robin, Batgirl, Batwoman, Batdog, Batcat, Batferret, etc. In fact, unless they can think of an excellent plot for a 4th film, they should probably stop with Two-Face in the 3rd. Maybe Black Mask or an obese, billionaire Penguin would work, but even Penguin is stretching it.

And that is to have some torturous event which leaves Bruce wayne absolutely NO CHOICE but to take him under his bat wing. <p> In the original comics, bruce made a conscious choice to reveal himself to Dick greyson and train him. <p> If Nolan can't do that in his vision of batman then he's as useless as sam raimie

You can probably get away with anything. In fact, if Robin were to be intro'd, the music might have to take on more of a role, so that the concept doesn't seem so silly. It worked for the silly child Bruce scenes in Begins.

We're going to see how Batman feels about fellow vigilantes in The Dark Knight. And then we'll all know that Robin doesn't belong on film. It kind of worked in Batman Forever but only because they made Dick Grayson 30 years old or something. Batgirl would be interesting...but these characters all came along at times when it was necessary to appeal to certain demographics. Robin brings in the kiddies, Batgirl & Batwoman to make sure women have some representation, Batmite for the growing Imp population. These films carry a weight to them, and I'd hate for them to be lightened by a character that is sillier in theory now than ever. Also, there are enough characters so far to keep up with and who knows what new ones will be kept as regulars after TDK?

Read every interview. He wasn't even that keen to do TDK at the start. He's made the best Batman film he knows how to make now. Now he will move on and make other films. We'll get stuck with another hack director like Ratner pulling the third film out his arse. Then everyone will be screaming for another reboot.

maybe if the nolan series stretched to 10 flicks. do you really think the tortured, unsure of himself batman is going to take in a robin in his first year?
now, if he wanted to make sure that the kid from the narrows in BB(named JASON, btw- a reference to jason todd- the robin from the streets)had his education or life paid for in safety since his parents are now M.I.A, sort of be like a 'bg brother' as bruce wayne- that would be fine. we can assume down the line he will become robin. we don't NEED TO see this happen in batman's first fucking year. it didn't happen that way in comics, and seems even less plausible now.

I mean, skip the name, skip the suit. Have him be Bruce Wayne's ward, Dick Grayson, who over the course of the movie stumbles onto his secret and, at the end, ends up saving Batman. Then in the next movie, he ends up suiting up in some of bat's equipment (sans cowl) to go help/save Batman, and he gets killed in the process. Then the whole Robin arc is taken care of, without having a gay suit in or ever calling Dick Grayson 'Robin'.

I think the bigger problem behind the Robin character is the idea that he would be allowed to adopt the kid, or make him his "ward", whatever that is. The irresponsible and single playboy act that BW puts on wouldn't make him seem like a very suitable person to adopt the kid.<p>But, to even possibly make it work somehow, you'd have to make Robin, say, 15 or 16 years old. O'Donnell was just a bad idea. Much too old, and they acted as if he was a teenager. Just dumb. Maybe if you had him as troubled kid who Batman kinda feels sorry for, who goes off on his own acting like a vigilante. Maybe Bruce stops him in the movie, and the kid only fights crime temporarily, and isn't his official partner. We've gotten a different version of other characters. Why not tweak Robin a bit?

If it was an arc involving Barbara Gordon, a long arc. Start out introducing her in the 3rd movie, have her find out about Bruce Wayne in the 5th. That sort of thing. One of the many failings of the 80s/90s Batman movies is they got in to big a hurry to cram everything into them, and especially the bad-guy team up thing. Two face and the riddler? Aw, jeeze.

or will that be too much like batman 3, in which it also is the 3rd batman in this series. probly will be riddler, two face as the vigilante turning villain and introduce a 3rd villain maybe catwoman? adding a girl in their would be more effective than a third guy, or a fourth if you count a joker cameo or a fifth if you count a scarecrow cameo, and then catwoman can show up fully in part 4 which would also introduce penguin, but that'd be too much like batman returns, so maybe part 4 would be about mr freeze, but that would be too much like batman and robin. maybe they should just give up.

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Seriously, why does R have to be a boy? I kinda liked it when the Spoiler took up the R mantel.
<p>Anyway, the entire premise of a R just wouldn't fit into the Nolanverse. I mean, why would Nolan's responsible, realistic Batman take a little kid and dress him (or her!) up in a helmet-less, bright red and green outfit? That's ridiculous. "Say, Batman, when do I get sleeves and a helmet?" <P>"When you grow up, chum!"

Have it be a robin that is adopted by his pet bats?
Seriously...Robin's outfit is the way it is because it was a rip off of the outfits worn by the Arborians in Alex Raymond's Flash Gordon comic strip. The Arborians were sort of like Robin Hood and his Merry Men.

That's part of what killed the original BATMAN franchise. That and Time Burton leaving. I've never liked Robin. I've always felt he's the family fun part of BATMAN. And who wants that in BATMAN. I even hated Robin as a kid. Only ever thought he belonged in the hokey 60s TV series. Robin dilutes the whole idea of Batman. He certainly doesn't belong Nolan's BATMAN.

AICN: we, as fans of the site, are pretty loyal. But lately, the advertising on the site is getting a bit much. And now on this page, about Bale and his NO to Robin, there is an ad for a Toyota Highlander???? Are you kidding me? I understand the ads for movies, action figures, movie related stuff. But for a f'n car/suv? Are you kidding? Don't destroy the site and be careful - the last thing you want is to have your audience rebel and just go to another site. News is not captive. Not all the contributors to AICN are equally good and nto all the reviews are worth reading - but there is enough great stuff that folks like me, come to AICN every single day and mostly several times a day to check on news. That should be the focus. Not getting more car ads which are annoying. How about some steps in the right direction?

Nolan already said in an interview after Batman Begins came out that he would never have Robin because he didn't know what the psychology would be for someone who dresses up in circus clothes and fights crime.

Who ever said he does? I mean, who here thinks anything besides his cape even remotely resembles a bat? Dude looks like a demon, and I like it like that. That's what makes him such a great hero: he dresses like a villain. Horns on his head, spikes on his arm, armor, glowing eyes, and a police utility belt.

would be to have Robin training in the cave for an entire movie. maybe bring him out at the end. maybe.<p>but if we see the time and effort Bats puts into training him it would seem less crazy to have him actually go out and fight alongside Batman.

I hope they dont try a Robin in the 3rd (or ANY of the future movies) but if they do, your idea is the best I have read so far. That COULD potentially work and it wouldn't be over powering either. Good idea!

FOR YOU ROBIN-WANTING MASSES!<p>Robin should NOTT be in the next Batman film. Christian Bale is 100% right.<p>Two-Face will be dishing out rough justice. And Riddler, with his superiority complex and green tie will--if Batman fails to solve his riddles--cause more shit than the Joker.<p>That will be enough.<p>Robin's arc is predictable, boring, and unnecessary.<p>Fuck the Foxx herself, don't you ROBIN-WANTERS want to see Batman do some things by himself?

I wonder how it could possibly live up to The Dark Knight? It seems like TDK is going to be a kick as movie (no doubt to me anyways) so I wonder what Nolan will do with the 3rd movie. I was also thinking that maybe the Joker doesn't die in TDK as to leave the possibility open for Heath to continue his role as the Joker for the 3rd.<p>I also heard Michael Cain make the comment in an interview that he thinks some other actor COULD play the Joker for the 3rd movie (hinting that this was the original plans of Nolan) and that Heath would have wanted it to happen. Something along those lines anyways.

Just as Batman's activities help encourage villains to put on crazy costumes, other's try to become caped crusaders with disastrous results (shades of Watchmen and even...um...Kick-Ass). Batman has a run in with a masked thief, who acts like Robin Hood, stealing from the mob to give to the poor. He's rejected by Batman, creates the Nightwing persona. Et cetera, et cetera. Perhaps it ends tragically. It can be done within the Nolan Batverse. Even the Robin name. For instance Wolverine in The Singer X-Men films rarely called himself that by name. It was implied. Films needn't be so literal. Sometimes they benefit from being quite the opposite. I bet Harvey Dent rarely calls himself Two-Face in The Dark Knight.

in the comics. I like the idea of Robin and I think he adds a lot to the psychology of Bruce Wayne, but he works better for the comics than the movies. It is interesting to see Bruce, who had his family torn from him, create a new family centered around his crime fighting life. However, there's plenty that can be done in these films without bringing Robin into them. A prepubescent boy fighting crime in a bright red and green costume doesn't look so great on screen.

It might work if Grayson is somewhat forced on Wayne, discovers his secret, and shows up out of the blue in a brightly colored red and yellow outfit of his design into a battle with some serious psychos - then gets brutally murdered. That would f up Batman's mind even more.

for the comics to pull in younger readers. What was he, 9 or 10 initially? And several other posters have already noted that if the movies followed the storyline of the comics, just like in The Dark Knight Returns, Batman would be facing child endangerment charges and I don't think even Gordon would put up with putting a kid in harm's way. And contrary to some comics readers, I always thought Robin/Nightwing/Grayson/Todd/whoever detracted from the essence of who Batman was. The entire idea of Batman is that he's been forced by circumstances to be an outsider. He simply doesn't relate well to people at all. He protects them but he's apart from them. The only person he can have a real conversation with is Alfred and even those conversations are primarily about the work. Bruce Wayne/Batman is a tortured, borderline dysfunctional human being. Let the movies tell Wayne's story. You don't need to introduce a kid into the mix. The only way I could see this working in Nolan's universe at all would be to start with Grayson/Nightwing. Dick Grayson is already either in or just out of college. Explain the similarities in Grayson's and Wayne's backgrounds and have Nightwing be sort of a parallel to Batman but maybe without the same moral code as Batman. Maybe even a villain. Now that might be an interesting story. Batman seeing a younger version of himself and maybe wanting to dissuade Grayson from the path he's on before he becomes what Wayne is.

a Joker with worse make-up than Cesar Romero's, I'm sure Clayface and Mr. Freeze are out of the question - really, what's the point of even calling it Batman? There has to be X amount of silliness to it because it's based on a comic book. The problem is, the Adam West and Schumaker versions went to far with the silliness, while Nolan, as a reaction, is going too far with the seriousness. Batman should lie somewhere inbetween.

people on this website always tag the phrase "...if it's done right" onto their ideas.
"robin could be cool...if it's done right."
it wouldn't be done right in this series...the 2nd movie is completed. the third movie (if it's even done by bale and nolan) will be bale and nolan's last batman movie (i would think).
they can't introduce robin, wedge him into the movie continuity, leave time and space for the villain(s) development, AND have it be good.
this entire post is A.) a waste of time, and B.) an outlet for fanboys to cheese out over the most anticipated movie of the summer. I CANNOT FUCKING WAIT FOR THIS MOVIE.

warner decodes to continue this vision of a gotham universe after nolan retires after a third one (which would be disrespectful on warner's part, but you know they will keep milking batman)- and they get a competent director and writer(s), and they still feel like including robin- he should be a poor kid from the wrong side of the tracks, a diamond in the rough, maybe batman catches him doing something on a slow crime day (stealing hubcaps,hacking an atm?)that bats/bruce decides to make a project and follow up on. maybe the kid resents the attention at first, but batman shows up at some point every day- at a window at night to remind him to do homework, catching him skipping school. this shouldn't be the crux of the movie, but scattered breaks in the dark action. bruce needs to play the big brother or father figure for his own sanity, doing so cleanses him of the day's dark crime fighting. To the kid, like i said, it's a pain in the ass, but eventually he gets used to it. then there's a night where batman doesn't show up. the kid is agitated, worried. he uses the police scanner (that he already had as a juvi criminal, or that batman gave him to listen to)and finds out that there is some big shit going down and reports of the batman having been seen entering a building before it exploded or something to that effect.) then ensues some event where the kid- using some streetsmarts or hacking or questionable legal means does end up either rescueing or secreting batman away before he is discovered or killed or something. i'll leave that up to the good writers.
In the end batman decides to dub the kid a junior batman or something, but no costume, no admission to the batcave, maybe just a ride home in the batmobile and an agreement to keep in touch. Batman still checks up on him, and bruce anonymously opens an account in the boy's name, giving him enough money to go to college and get by but never have to turn to crime.<P>THAT's as much robin as i want.

I think the movies will be just fine with no Robin. Plenty of good stories have been told with and without Robin in the comics. The darker tone and constant jeopardy that seems to be the theme of the Nolan films has really no place for a "teen sidekick." I am not a "Robin hater." I think the character has added quite a bit to the "Bat-verse" over the years but even today he is not in every single issue of Batman or Detective Comics so there is simply no great need for the character in the Nolan movies. Batman has a support system in place in these movies with Alfred and Lucius Fox, and an ally in Gordon. Robin is just simply not necessary.

robin represents what could have happened to a young bruce wayne if he hadn't had the wealth and support structure Bruce had when he was a kid. batman/bruce feels compelled to take car of this kid, but is it out of kindness, or a way of dealing with his personal issues of wealth-guilt, and reliving his missing childhood?

As much as I liked Michelle Pfeifer, this character is long, long overdue for a faithful adaptation, and as a non-super-power character, she could easily fit into Nolan's and Bale's Battyverse. If they turn Two Face into a full-on villain and have Catwoman getting in Batman's way, they could finally save the character from the campy hell she's been wasting away in since she was created.

If they went the way of Nightwing, but Robin the boy wonder really does not have a place in this Batman series, unless it can fit in properly, which at this point I can't see, but stranger things have come to pass, so only time will tell. A top notch actor would be needed if they were to put Nightwing into the movies though.

Tom Wilkson carried his Batman character over to Snatch 3 (Lock Stock 3? Snatch 2? whatever). <P> I just hope that if there is a Robin, he's British because no one can do the most American super hero like the blimy brits. <P> Never understood why G.I. Joe gets the real American Hero tag? Maybe it was when they first came out, but now its pretty obvious that they are a multi cultural orgainzation. Superman is from space, and Batman is from New York. There is so much cross-pollenization between USA and UK, you'd almost think that we came from them.

i also liked the idea of Alfred being some retired british secret service or something. that he has more up his sleeve and in his past that even bruce knows, but his parents did. that at one time alfred was more than just a butler but an advisor and perhaps bodyguard to his father.

he's been there for 60 years.<p>you need a character to balance out Bats, or he goes off the deep end. he needs someone to care about, or else he's just the Punisher who breaks bones instead of killing people. which can be cool, for some stories. but saying that Robin does't fit into his universe, or even into the Nolan universe, is a stretch.<p>does he belong there yet? no. but i think they will need him if this series keeps on for a few more movies.

I remember after seeing Batman and Robin and my buddies and I were talking about what could they possibly do next (and which soulfool R and B star would sing the theme song). We always joked that Alfred was going to start going on adventures with them, in a little rocket powered wheel chair. <P> Do you think all the other Batman's get invited to the press screenings of any of the new Batmans? I mean wouldn't it be awesome to have all the actors who played Batman sit around and talk about how cool George Clooney is (oops sorry was thinking like George Clooney there for a second), I mean talk trash about the new Batman and how they were better? I wonder if they get invited at all? It would be a cool thing to see all the actors who've played Batman at every new opening of Batman (until Val Kilmer gets too fat to walk). Or do you think that they are all too Diva like (Clooney...probably Kilmer) to show up to it? You know Adam West will, shit you could probably tell him that he actually is Batman in this newest movie. <p> Just wouldn't it be cool to go to the premiere and there sitting together is all the Batman including Kevin Conroy, and throw Burt Ward and Mark Hamil in for fun? I know that that isn't the point of the new Batman's, but come on without those there wouldn't be this.

i hope this is true in all honesty. The two new films are so much about batman HIMself and the problems HE faces a think that having to write in a whole origin story for a sidekick for this kind of go it alone batman would not work at all, if they decide to do anything at all with the character i would hope that it would just be an appearance of dick and him listening to advice bruce gives him and then leaves to become nightwing but definately no robin it just reminds us to much of the 60's and unfortunately of chris odonnel

Is that all the action starts to centre around , Batman and him *saving* each other.It always does...Robin saves Batman during an alley fight that gets out of hand...then Robin is kidnapped by Joker/Mr Freeze/Penguin etc..and Batman has to save him.They can't think beyond that storyline!

Am I the only guy who liked this cartoon? I loved the bitter, cranky, kick ass/old batman.
Oh...and no Robin for these movies, please.
The next movie..Bat 3...will be a tough one to make after this one. I am afraid it will be tough to top.
And...am the only one that doesn't completely love M. Caine as Alfred? I think he is a legendary actor and certainly does not significantly hurt the movie, but there is something about his dialogue or his portrayal that misses a little for me.

he's actually interested in the character of Batman/Bruce Wayne. You could tell Burton was far more interested in the villains than the hero and Schumacker didn't have an idea in his head. Adding Robin takes away from the main character. Let's focus on Batman and avoid creating a Bat-Family.

But it might be cool to introduce Dick Grayson in the final one, Bruce Wayne takes on a young ward after his parents die tragically. That way, you give a nod to the character, without really ever having to actually have him in the movies.

...I imagine they might go this route:<P>They will introduce Robin's character early on but he will never actually become Robin in the film. (Considering the age difference between the two characters, it's much too early for him to be partnering up with Batman.) However, I can totally see them doing something like the way they introduced the Joker at the very end of BATMAN BEGINS. It's not a big unveiling but more of a foreshadowing; a hint of great things to come. With that in mind...<P>...I've thought for awhile now that they might do the same for the Batmobile. I always viewed the Tumbler as the chassis or starting point for the more trademark/recognizable Batmobile. How cool would it be to have the final shot of the third film be a big smile on Bruce Wayne's face as he sees the all new, sleeker Batmobile for the first time?

in Nolan's world. Think about it. Gotham is already conflicted about this alledged guy running around rooftops in some kind of bat costume. They're conflicted but he IS reducing the criminal element and doing it in a way that the cops can't, which is beating the crap out of the crooks. That's got to cause some kind of visceral satisfaction to the citizenry, particularly those victimized by crime. However, you then start getting reports of this Batman running around dodging bullets and he's got a little kid out there with him putting his life at risk too? That simply wouldn't work. In the public's eyes, Batman goes from being a crimefighter to a nutcase, and he loses all the goodwill he's generated by fighting crime. The guy is endangering a child's life. In Nolan's semi-realistic take, there simply isn't room for a Robin. There IS room for the Nightwing scenario I envisioned. It'd give Batman the detective a showcase by having to figure out who this Nightwing character really is. And then when Bats realizes how closely he and Grayson's lives parallel, I think that'd make a good storyline.

well, it pretty much has to go that way now. with TDK, joker effectively wipes out the Mob FOR batman, (isn't that ironic? anarchy working over justice to wipe out crime)- so all that's left would be attention seeking terrorists and costumed copycats and showboaters making a mess of things or scrambling to control the criminal underground.

This guys needs a role that finally gets him an Oscar, he got robbed twice now by those fuckers.
Clooney and Theron got awards for eating a few cheeseburgers more than usual,while Bale lost half of his body weight for fucks sake.
The academy must really hate the guy.<p> Batman TAS started sucking after they added Robin, B&R would have sucked about 1/4 less without Robin, the character just seems tacked on for the younger readers or viewers, he's annoying, mostly useless, and he dresses like a fag.
Just like the kids his character is aimed at.

If you want to torpedo everything Nolan and Bale have accomplished, bring in the "Comic Book Poster Child For NAMBLA" Robin. If, however, you want the series to continue as the high watermark of superhero movies, the ne plus ultra of Batman related products and services, KEEP ROBIN OUT OF THE NOLAN FILMS. Please. PLEASE?!?!?!

Now who's being silly? I love how "realistic" they're trying to make the villains, while the rules don't seem to apply to Bats. Besides, it WOULD work if they handled it like everything else they've done so far and made it the Tim Drake Robin instead of Dick Grayson. What's more believable? Flying trapeze boy, or a teenager who figures out Batman's identity and seeks out to become Robin.

SERIOUSLY....a man dressed up as a bat jumping off rooftops is more plausible than robin, How? They have an interesting dynamic in the comic book, it definitely works.
If Robin can't exist in this universe, than it's not batman...

It really seems that the Robin haters (and you are legion, I'll grant you that) are people who have never even read a single Batman comic book. Bats has plenty of adventures that don't require a sidekick, this is true. But Robin's presence in the Batverse is as necessary as Commisoner Gordon's or Alfred's. He's one of Batman's connection to humanity, a safety valve to insure Bats doesn't become that which he fights. <p>
And if Robin indeed "gays up" the Batverse, what does Alfred do? He's an older male entrusted with rearing a young boy. And then later on helps out with first aid and late night snacks when his "young master" comes of age and decides fighting crime dressed as a bat would be a keen thing to do. (BTW, he's not dressed as a demon or a even bat demon as some have suggested. The character is known to one and all as Batman because he's a man dressed like a bat, period.) <p>
If Robin is superflous, so are many of the other foils/second bananas in popular media. <p>
Dr. Watson is totally lame! Like, why does Sherlock Holmes even keep him around? Holmes always figures out the case on his own in the end. Plus, Watson gays it up by making it seem Sherlock only perfers the compnay of men. <p>
Docto Who and his Companions. Thankfully the Doctor has the good taste to focus on traveling mainly with nubile young women...although there was that young Scotsman who rocked a fierce kilt, the alien math whiz who got angry when the Doctor chose to go exploring with the Australian air hostess instead of him, and the scheming British schoolboy who still dressed as a British schoolboy despite not really being a British schoolboy. The Doctor totally could adventure on his own without a Companion by his side. But if he needed the occasional assistant, better that it be a she...perferably a she from a tribe of sexy savages short on clothing and high on barely bridled passion. <p>
Captain Kirk doesn't need Mr. Spock. Or Dr. McCoy for that matter. Heck, what does Sulu ever do but drive the ship? Let's face it. Star Trek would've been much more interesting if Kirk just kept the galactic peace without the annoying compatriots constly giving him advice and useful information. Spock is always getting touchy feely to boot. McCoy might as well be the spurned, jealous lover the way he views Spock's hovering presence on the bridge. <p>
A thought: maybe Robin is so maligned because he cockblocks fans from imagining themselves as Batman's partner/confidant. It used to be the sidekick was a stand-in for the reader, who back in the day were mainly young children around the age of 10 or so. Today's comic book audience...let's face it, if they're 10 and can afford comic books, their parents must be rich of the kid has a massive paper route. The modern comic book reader is in his or her late teens or older. So the original connection Robin provided is now outmoded. That's why the grown-up Robin, AKA Nightwing, gets a pass because he's now an adult contemporary for Bats, not the young student learning from the master. <p>
Well, the point is all moot if Nolan has no plans for the Robin character (any version) anyway. Still doesn't change the fact that Batman works best, and will always work best, as a comic book character. The movies may be an interesting expression, but they don't surpass the source material.

Unless you make him someone in his mid-twenties like chris O'Donnell; and we all know what a fucking great idea THAT was. How're they going to maintain this ultra realistic world they've set up for Batman and then introduce a 12-14 year old boy who is going to beat up grown men? Doesn't translate.

The moment you add Robin, Batgirl or Batmite, this entire new Batman universe will turn to shit.<p> Personally, I hope Bale and Nolan both quit the franschise after Dark Knight, before Warners makes them deliver a Spidey 3 or X-men 3 (you know it's inevitable). They don't need that for their careers and neither do we. We all know The Dark Knight is gonna rule. Job well done. Time to move on.

Personally, I feel that there should be two (if not three) Batman series, alternating at a movie theatre near you. Just look at the success that the James Bond flicks enjoyed, with both Sean Connery and Roger Moore. I've been saying this for YEARS!!!! And if Warner Bros. wants a more "kid friendly" live action Batman series WITH ROBIN, then why not do that...while making it freakin' cool and better than all previous efforts, before Nolan? -Wow, what a dream directing job!

The kid would literally have to be 12 years old and LOOK it. Bruce sees his family die, (and it actually appears to be tragic rather than comical, like in Batman forever), and adopts the kid out of pity. The kid doesn't fight a SINGLE person in the movie and provides Batman with surveilance or cave duties.

Hanging out with a 14 year old boy orphan acrobat named Dick who wears in speedoes, elf shoes, and little else who lives in your mansion on the other hand? Helloooooo NAMBLA. There is no way on Earth to make Robin not a symbol of homosexual pedophilia.

i like the Tim Drake storyline, as Sans Souci brought up. have a really smart kid do a bunch of research and leg work and find out who Bats is. he realizes Bats needs someone to level him off, to keep him from slipping over the edge and actually becoming the threat the city thinks he is.<p>have him show up and offer to be his partner, have Bruce train him.<p>true, it would be a PR nightmare in Nolan's world, but no more so than shooting through walls and driving over buildings and doing everything else Bats does.

It's easy to make a cool, serious Batman flick with him solo. If Nolan can put Robin in there too and make him a real kid instead of just some teen or twenty-something that would be impressive. Frank Miller managed to do it for DARK KNIGHT RETURNS.

It would make since that Batman would have someone to replace him. He could die any day, so who would protect Gotham then? Alfred? And even if he lives to retirement, Gotham will still have crime that the police just couldn't handle. That was the whole point of him taking on the mantle. Gotham is the most important thing to him now, and he would have a contingency plan to keep it safe.

but I could see how one would work. Like a biggest fan stalker Robin who won't leave Bats alone and helps out without asking. Or something. And Shia would be perfect. But if Christian Bale doesn't want it, then don't do it.

The only problem is Tim figured out who Batman and the Dick Grayson Robin were because he connected the acrobatic moves of Robin to the Flying Graysons. <p>
So remove that. "Proto Robin" is a teenager who figures out through research and observation that Bruce Wayne is Batman. He approaches Bruce, who undoubtedly rebukes him but is nonetheless impressed with the kid's abilities. (Perhaps you could have Alfred half-jokingly suggest that they "silence" the pest if the Bats doth protest too much.) Robin begins tailing Bats, training on his own to prove himself worthy. He enters the fray...gets his ass royally handed to him and only Batman's intervention saves him from death. <p>
But instead of being scared off, Robin's determination is renewed. He can't take on the big baddies like Joker, but he's able to beat down the muggers and goons who pester the average Gothamite. <p> When Bats sees the kid ain't gonna give up, he sends him off on a similar training trek that he himself went on all those years ago. Yeah, it'll take years for Robin to evern approach the same level as Bats, but eventually he becomes a proficient crime fighter. <p>
Still, Batman is the ultimate loner and outsider, while Robin is all about teamwork. But what better way for Bats to provide a lasting legacy than to train others to become protectors like himself. They can't be carbon copies, but they can fully participate in the same world Bats moves through.

but I'm not going to have apocalyptic fucking nerd rage if they don't have Robin in a Batman movie. I've read a shitload of Batman comics, and the only times I've really like the character at all was when a) He was a she (Dark Knight Returns). b) He was Nightwing

he has damn near the skills, and much less emotional baggage. i would love to see a fleshed out Robin to Nightewing movie/movies.<p>add in the rise and fall and rise again of Batgirl/Oracle and i'd be even more stoked.

Why a 35 year old man can't just hang around with a young boy in short shorts without everyone making a fuss. Just to recap, Batman:
<br> - has Robin living with him at the mansion
<br> - picks out Robins wardrobe
<br> - buys Robin nice things
<br> - takes Robin everywhere he goes
<br> Yeah, I don't Nolan's series really has room for Batman having a twink...

A Little kid whose whole family gets murdered. Batman has no choice but to take him in. The kid emulates Batman and wants revenge on his parent's killers. Batman sees himself in the kid, and trains him to fight.

Fucking A some people have no taste. I didn't think twice about the guy until I saw his portrayal of Robin in BF and B&R. Seriously, he's absolutely one of the reasons the old franchise turned to such horrid shit. Now I guess I shouldn't blame him entirely, the franchise had gone off the tracks long before he showed up but holy shit...it was the most cringe-inducing bullshit ever watching him portray Master Dick(!). I actually liked Forever and thought Kilmer was a good Batman overall but I hated Odonnel. Hated that glib cockiness only a week after his whole family was killed. Hated his ninja clothes washer routine...shit, I hated ALL of it. If Nolan looses his senses and even puts Robin in these movies...and then completely assrapes the shark and uses Odonnel, I will go to the theater specifically to ruin everyone else's experience. Probably by eating 3 dozen hot wings, wearing latex underwear, and doing crunches the whole time. As a fellow Irishman (blood, not birth), I say balls to Odonnel and balls to anyone who thinks the absurd character of Robin should be in Nolan's Batman in any way whatsoever. BALLS!

You want Robin now? Just when the people who saw TDK already are puzzled as to how it got a PG-13 instead of an R? And you people are saying that you want the next one to go into kiddyshit territory again? Right after we get the Killing Joke version of the Joker?
What the fuck is wrong with you people? Robin is an excuse to sell more toys, to soften up the comic so that more kids buy it. Saying you prefer Batman with Robin is like saying The Batman is better than Batman TAS.

if its written well and casted correctly.<p>
Nolan found a way to make scarecrow a legitimate nemesis in the first movie, and as far as the Batman universe goes, he's one of the weakest clowns in the whole batch.<p>
and having not seen more than images and trailers, he's managed to take the WORST cartoonish goodball villian in The Joker, and make him a legitimate nemesis as well.<p>
So why wouldn't he be capable of turning a cartoonish side-kick into something legitimate? I think Jake Gyllenhall would make for a good Robin. But I say you do away with the 'travelling circus family marked for death for no apparent reason' backstory and just make Robin his real name and abandon the whole 'he's a cute little birdie' concept. Just call him Robin because thats who he is and give him a black batman-style combat suit and move on with the story.

It just doesn't feel right to me in this movieverse of Batman. Robin is a phenomenal character with an incredible history, but this movie series will be just fine without him. Many of you who are crying for Robin then give ideas that totally rape the legacy of the character. "Make him a psycho stalker, make him black, a girl in her 20s." Remember the Batman 2 script that was tossed in favor of Returns? The Penguin wasn't even named Oswold Cobblepot. That's basically what your asking for a Robin in name only. Robin has no real place in this series. It's not kid friendly and not aimed at kids so leave the kid out of it.

ever since his inception to bring in a relatable characters for children, and the resulting 'camp' years afterwards, DC has always struggled how to use robin- proof that he was a mistake of sorts, a marketing nightmare they has always wrestled with ever since. the fact that there have been three robins (four if you count miller's girl)- heck maybe more, i'm not an expert- is evidence they have never gotten it right themselves. they've even killed them off, and yes, robin is more interesting as nightwing--BECAUSE HE ISN'T ROBIN. Robin is good in the teen titans BECAUSE HE ISN'T AROUND BATMAN. now, if batman inspires a kid to become a superhero, that's cool. cooler still if batman gives him the nudge in the right direction and warns him of the easy moral pitfalls---but batman and robin as an inseperable duo has never worked outside of the 50's, and that america is no longer with us. a batman and robin constant duo simply does not work in our world anymore.

Have you ever read a Batman comic? Your analysis of the Scarecrow and The Joker are way off. The Joker especially. There's a reason many consider him the greatest Batman villan if not near the top in all of comics. He is the perfect foil to the Justice and order Batman represents. He's chaos and death all wrapped in a creepy clown. The Joker is the perfect villan when compare to the hero he antagonizes.

I'll admit that I was being just a wee bit douchey in suggesting that all of the anti-Robin contingent doesn't read the source comics. That's just the impression I'm getting from most of the posts. Batman movie fans and Batman comic fans are not always one and the same. Same can be said of Superman, Spider-Man, Hulk, and Iron Man. <p>
And in my defense, a little douchery every now and then can be quite cleansing!

Here's a question. How would Robin make this series better? If you answer this don't give me the "Robin just has to be there, or Robin is synonymus with Batman" stuff. How would Robin further this series? How would he make it better? I just want to know where your coming from. Why is he needed? Just asking.

i don't know if the rebooting and the multiple Robins have anything to do with Robin him/herself.<p>the biggest problem with any kid hero is that eventually people want to see him grow up. but no one wants to see Batman get any older, so Robins come and Robins go.

shit if i was a mega bilionaire with plenty of time to train my body and fight crime, i'd do that shit today. my costume or theme? i don't know, but i have comic knowledge to work from. does bruce wayne live in a world where there have been comic books to inspire him though? that's the real question. a man just deciding to dress up like a bat with no other inspiration is unlikely...which is why i liked the histories involving the grey ghost and zorro as bruce's inspirations. that would have made nolan's take even more plausible.

(at least from the origins i read) the duality of batman and the joker is that they show how events mold people. also how social status effects how they react to those events. bruce's parents were killed in front of him. but he had the money and time to build up his 'vengeance' as it were, and a cast of friends and family to keep him reletively steered morally. The joker had a miserable life where everything bad that can happen to someone does. after a while you just have to laugh at your own misfortune to get through it. he didn't have the tools or money to avenge crime. instead he lashes out angry at the world because it's the world, and not one event- that he feels has fucked him over. i totally understand the joker's origin that way. Heath's is unknown, but his punk aesthetic and attitude for humanity would imply the same thing. in the killing joke, it's explained how 'one bad day' can moled two people completely differently. it's never really dealt with, but batman has the advantage to his development because he inherited wealth. would be be batman without that support? or would he be an angry vigilante with loose morals?

have a second guy running around doing what batman is doing, and they team up for the movie, and that's it. No Side kick shit, just another DC superhero, then they can spin that off and make more cash.

the only benefit being a millionaire has for the batman story is- it was a convenience to explain where he gets all his gadgets and free time. face it, bruce inherited his father's legacy and fortune. he didn't work a day for it. then he runs off and explores the world andthinks it's okay to just pick up where he left off? as far as alfred and rutger hauer's characters are concerned, i'd be pissed. you know alfred was set to inherit alot of that shit. now bruce is throwing money around pretending to be a jerk, and wasting and keeping private the inventions of a brilliant inventor for his delusional escapades, and a futile endeavor to eradicate all crime? <P>that's why i could never relate to bruce/batman. he would be nothing without what others have given him. he's priveledged. if he were middleclass, he had to make his own gear, work a day job (all this is why more people tend to relate to spiderman, btw)his struggle would have more weight. It wouldn't take the riddler to see the 'toys' batman uses and put two and two together to wonder who in town could afford that shit.<P>just saying, if batman wore a cloth suit over a bulletproof vest, had some military combat training, and tinkered in his own garage it would be hella more interesting.<P>again, this is why the joker is better. he's a survivalist. he takes what he needs, nothing has been given to him, assumedly.

It has to be addressed at some point that Batman would need a fill in or a replacement. The reason the other guys don't have a sidekick/partner is because Batman has no super-powered edge and is adamant about protecting a whole city all the time. When you can fly, bend steel, or recover from any wound it makes it easier to be solo. Imagine the police dept. consisting of one guy. Tim Drake could still work even if he NEVER becomes Robin in the movies, but the works in the Batcave on the computer to relay info or handle the tech shit while alluding that someday in the far future if he doesn't fuck up, he might get to replace Batman.

convenience??? really??/? because in reality, no one could have the money or time to do something like that. It wasn't a minor detail, as you've tried to explained about. His wealth was the reason we believed someone without superpowers could do all that stuff. Not just the tech, but the time devotion it takes to be batman, the private butler and private doctor are all factors that make the character believable and are facts of life for a richy rich like Bruce Wayne.

That's who Nolan should cast if he really wants to switch things up. Give us the first Robin big enough to kick Batman's ass and make it an uneasy alliance between Batman and his Harley-riding, sunglass-at-night wearing crimefighting badass partner.

There's never gonna be 100% consenus...especially in AICN talkbacks! :-)<p>
You called it correctly. I made a sweeping generalization. <p>
But those who have pointed out that Nolan's nixed the Boy Wonder have made the most pertinent point: no sense in arguing about Robin's merits if there's no plans to include him in the movies. <p> He has a role in the comic books. That's enough for me.

"just saying, if batman wore a cloth suit over a bulletproof vest, had some military combat training, and tinkered in his own garage it would be hella more interesting." <br><br> You just described the Punisher...

He is asked if the rumours regarding an audition for Robin in Batman & Robin is true and says the following, "No, that one isn't true. And I never would have done. Let me tell you, if Robin somehow crops up in one of the new Batman films along the line, I'll be chaining myself up somewhere and refusing to go to work"

It is always easier to destroy then to create or preserve. That's the difference...the Joker doesn't 'need' anything because what he is trying to do doesnt require much. What he needs he takes and steals. Batman doesn't. It is much easier than what Batman is attempting. If Bruce wanted to level Gotham he could achieve it far quicker and mor effective than the Joker. As far as you being pissed about Wayne being rich and priveleged...and not being able to relate to him....sounds like you;ve got a bit of class envy to deal with. He is kicking ass for the people of Gotham is he not?(not to metion his own personal issues). It's the idealism, actions and character of the man to which one relates. How about all of the mental and physical training he was driven to accomplish...did he inherit that too? Can you relate to James Bond if one doesn't drive a fucking Aston Martin?

and outright make them gay. Instead of being subtle, just come right out and make Dick into Bruce's 17-year-old boyfriend. We can have scenes of them waking up in bed together (it happened in the comics!) and scenes of Batman patting Robin on the ass (that also happened in the comics). They could have them share a kiss every once in a while, and maybe have Bruce introduce Disk as his "companion" instead of taking him on as a ward. <p>
Instead of all the innuendo we saw in various sources, just come right out and SAY IT. Batman doesn't have to be gay-- Maybe he's bisexual. He's a playboy, after all. <p>
That would explain Robin's costume (really, guys: tights with green panties, elf-shoes, a red doublet, and a cape? Dandy, much?) and it would be modern and real. <p>
What? You can accept a guy who dresses as a bat and hunts criminals by night, but you can't accept a homosexual relationship? <p>
Just do it. It's been implied for ages, so why not just bring Batman out of the closet? Let him be free! Batman could be the Captain Jack Harkness of Gotham. <p>
(How much of my post is sarcasm? I will never tell, but it will be fun to see the fanboys squirm at the idea of Batman being a twink-loving bisexual.)

What is the primary motivation of Batman? FAMILY. Vengeance for a family he lost, then protection of his city and a family he creates.<p>
It is perfectly in keeping with Batman Begins that he would take on a protege, especially one who lost his family in the same way that Bruce Wayne did. And for the first film, he should be 10-12 years old. The key is in how you write it. Bruce Wayne needs to Robin's FATHER not his creepy gay uncle.<p>
Bruce Wayne needs to evolve in his public persona, becoming a more stable member of his society, more involved with the workings of the city. Batman will evolve into more of a lawman than a vigilante. And Bruce will evolve in his true identity as he begins to build a family for himself of like-minded crazy people who want to make a difference.<p>
A better story than having Richard (Not Dick) Grayson live with Bruce immediately after the death of his parents is if Bruce tries having Richard live with Leslie Tompkins, who took Bruce in right after his parents died, and who works out of the halfway house built where Bruce's parents were killed. But Richard is uncontrollable, and his background as an athlete give him physical advantages as he acts out against the other kids. So, Bruce takes him under his wing and begins to teach him better outlets for his rage. Alfred takes to him immediately and everyone begins to grow and heal. Then, as Richard gets more curious, then he discovers Bruce's secret...and he decided to become a vigilante and go after Two-Face.<p>
You might not need to ever put him in costume--or he is dressed as Robin Hood for Halloween and gets into a fight. Bruce begins to see that he might need a successor, that he won't be around forever, and he sees Richard as the one to become Batman someday. The other thing is that you never have him be "The Boy Wonder". You see him help out as a little kid in one movie, then you see him as an older teen/adult vigilante in the next film--maybe he is working independent of Bruce, and the Batman doesn't know who ROBIN/NIGHTWING is.<p>
But, the point is that Robin was important for Batman's evolution. It is where Batman gores up. It just needs to be done right.

I just want to say you got the funniest name on the internet. I always see you commenting but today I was having a shitty day and it made me laugh. Thanks man.
And to be honest, yea I am excited about Ledger, but I think Bales a great actor. I dont know why you are talking about his mouth for...I just cant stand that mole he got by his eye. That shit is huge

Nolan is going for real world Batman. He's set this up to be a trillogy, and that is Scarecrow, Joker, Two-Face. No special powers, nothing too outside the realm of reality. Two-Face's freaky burns are probably as fantastical as you will see Nolan go. So the chances of a Mr. Freeze sighting appear to be slim to none. Robin? Also unlikely, unless he had a more of a stay in the cave, and work the computers kind of role.

Robin is not gay; it's your perceptions, certainly colored by the Joel Hackmeisters '90s films (and for those who even get this, Wertham in the '50s was an ass and a pompous one at that; my cousin's late grandparents knew him and offered that insight). The original Robin outfit reflected the times of his introduction, too (the 1940s). The updated costume of the '90s, even with it's green-red color scheme, is fine, especially if done muted with some black/dark tones. AS even Frank Miller has said, there's more than one view/presentation of Batman and all are true in their own way (though I'd argue against Schu-hack-meister's). Nolan and his team may be the ones who can figure out how to do Robin; if not in a third film, then perhaps in the fourth if the series continues on (Most of us hope so). As one who's been reading/following comics for more than four decades, longer than a lot of you have been alive, I appreciate the characters' varied history and love nearly all eras in comics, TV and film. Some of the points made above have been intelligent, yet some are the typical Talkback morons who think it's their little pussy-child way or the highway. Robin was created to get more kids reading comics way back when and it worked. Sorry, it did. That's why we saw more sidekicks - Speedy, Aqualad, Kid Flash, etc.. Which led to the Teen Titans, a good, then, under Wolfman-Perez, excellent series over the decades, brilliant revived a few years back again by Johns. Dick Grayson became DAMN cool at the end of his Robin tenure. And as Nightwing, he's a figure of awe not just for his peers in their '20s now and the current teen heroes, but also the older ones in the DC -verse. He's not Batman, Jr. He's his own man. The 1980s Jason Todd story and the killing off by vote may have been cynical, but shaped the years that followed for the Batman. I'm not thrilled they brought Todd back to life in the last few years, but it's done and we're not in charge of DC. Now Tim Drake has evolved into one winning Robin. His Robin title was a best-seller in the 90s. So it seems a lot of folks didn't/don't think the Robin concept sucks. Loeb/Sales' Dark Victory captured it well, too. It can be done. Should it be done? That's a maybe. If Nolan and company can capture the horror and loss such as Tim experienced in Identity Crisis or a young Richard Grayson watching his family die before his eyes under a once-happy circus bigtop, it CAN work. And yes, Robin should be 10, 12 at most. Meanwhile though, the Robin-haters here are so way over-the-top with the gay -slinging (there are much more flaming characters in films - e.g., Austin Powers, despite the shag nonsense, has gotta be bi). Was Robin 'gay' in the Animated series of the '90s? No. Not at all. In fact, the Barbara Gordon hook-up in the Freeze film (so much, so much better than the awful Arnold thing) was great. Also, the spewing juveniles here - and I don't mean children, but childish adults, 20-something variety probably - do not understand a whit about the nuances of The Batman and his supporting cast over the years in the comics, from the beginnings with Finger/Kane/Robinson to O'Neil/Adams, Rogers/Englehart up through today (Do they even know those names? Probably not). The point that Robin is for kids and doesn't belong in films that aren't for kids is a valid consideration. But drawing properly upon the Batman mythos is also a valid consideration. Is there a possible compromise? And the debate continues, with the usual one and two-line idiots chiming in between the actual civil and thoughtful folks.

that was actually a metaphor i was about to use, only batman has an oath to not kill or use guns.<P>it seems i've made everyone think i hate batman or have class issues- batman is my favorite hero but sometimes it's fun to analyze (or overanalyze) them and the situation they are in. if sympathizing with the joker equates me to hitler i suggest you go read the killing joke again.<P>
as far as class issues are concerned, i guess that means you like people like paris hilton and other 3rd generation billionaires who contribute nothing to the world other than jokes? bruce keeps that persona up for a reason,so it's okay to hate it. i doubt paris hilton fights crime when she's not cocking her head for the camera. i'm just saying- most of us want to be batman- but it takes more than the will to be him, it takes that budget, and that's why batman the character, the concept, the man, the result himself will never be fully relateable by the common man. when you see bruce's car, or penthouse you think wow, that's cool ,i wish i could have that. that itself is a class issue, pals. batman didn't buy bruce that stuff, his inheritance did. as far as i know in the history of the comics i never saw a whole issue- let alone a whole page, devoted to sseing bruce managing the finances and projects of wayne industries.

or something....listen, tell Nolan this is a story about a man who dresses up like a bat, does detective work against mobsters, helps superman figure out strategies, and outsmarts everyone in the justice league. Seriously.

Freddie Highmore as Robin. He's got the right nationality to be an American icon, and he is about the right age. But he is going to need some serious accent trainning because his duel American accent in Spiderwick ruined the movie is was so bad. Plus I know enough of you TB'ers already got a stick up your ass about Bales take on the American accent.

Very well said. And the Wertham comments, the man who started the whole damn gay thing for those who do not know, are dead on. In the TV show, the boys were given an Aunt for the express reason of eliminating any homo-hysteria that had started with Wertham's book. <p> Also great points about the whining fanboys who really do not know enough about comics history.

Valid point however the character of Bruce Wayne is not meant to be likeable. It is a facade put together by the man himself to throw off suspicion. As far as your root of your problem with Begins that's just personal taste so I won't try to convince you otherwise on that one. This is definately an agree to disagree issue because I just don't see Robin as a valid character in this series.

...means I like Paris Hilton....hhhmmm okay. Not sure how you make that wild leap. If Peter Parker had a billion dollars he'd make himself some gadgets too. If Bruce Wayne was the son of an auto mechanic, he'd find a way to channel his vengance any way he could. If the Queen had balls she'd be King. It is what it is. Gert past the bank account and into the character.What's the fucking point?

Stupid examples. Just stupid. There is nothing wrong for a realistic vision of Batman. It works because he has no super powers except his own mind, fighting skills, and insanely large bank account. Your just being an idiot.

As much as this movie is going to be praised for its gritty realism, and entertainment punch!!! ENOUGH! We need to some green screen Sin City magic for a true batman film conceptualization. This will satisfy comic book, and non comic book audiences.
LET ME SHOOT IT!

we are in agreement, i think i've been misunderstood by this point, and we'll just stray farther the more we debate what we pretty much agree on. "If Bruce Wayne was the son of an auto mechanic, he'd find a way to channel his vengance any way he could."

It sounds corny, but all these loner geeks don't realize that robin has always been there to soften the image of the brooding batman. Robin is a rejection of Batman's sense of hopelessness. A rejection of isolationism. It really works!
Nolan and Bale reject Robin at their own peril...otherwise the

It's ok for Batman to reject The Joker's hedonism, but what Robin is there to remind batman that there is something amazing about having the will and ability to jump off rooftops. Even when Batman is playboy bruce wayne, he is in job mode...the only time he is real is when he is with alfred and robin.

Are all already self-contained without Robin. Family? One word: Alfred. Bruce is a dickhead? One word: Lucius. Those scenes with him in BB are not ass and show BW to have a sense of humor and, I'd argue, to be an interesting character...as well as his scenes at the hotel with the "European" models. While those might not be as succinct as you might prefer to do really negate the reasons given for Robin being necessary.<p>And I don't think Robin was portrayed well in the Shumaker films either. Odonnel and writing didn't help but that costume was dumbass supreme...his gear was dumb, gymnast becomes ninja was dumb (Gymkata anyone?!), etc...ugh. Robin is 'King Kong and the big door in the impenetrable fence'...don't matter how you film it...it's still kind of a dumb character (or in KK's case, dumb idea).<p>Robin just has bad all over it and I think it's best to leave him on the old shows and comics. So far as I know, Batman is the only hero (DC or Marvel) with a sidekick. Shit, the very mention of sidekick makes my eyes roll. Could it be done? Probably. Could Nolan do it and make it work? Likely. Does that mean it should be done? Abso-fuckin-lutely not. Nuff said. He's an unnecessary distraction at best. The interplay between Joker and Batman works better without Robin. Much harder to capture the nuance of their relationship on film I think...without the whole gay distraction thing or weirdness of a 30-something guy living with a teenage boy not related to him by blood. It's just creepy. It could be done...but it would be a tightrope walk with complete shit on one side and total pigfuck on the other.

That would mean they would have to make a lot of modifications to the robot known as Common, which as of right now can only rap, stand there and say things and lean over and mumble something to its boss.

...you just have to go balls dark with it. Like they did in Dark Knight Returns or FM's Batman and Robin series he just did. Really invest in the reality of this young kid, whose parents were just killed. Now you're homeless, pissed off, and this sadistic guy in a bat suit just takes you under his wing and is exposing you to the darkest shit the world has to offer. Also: they should make Robin a young girl, like in Dark Knight returns. If you could carefully avoid any sexual creepiness, think Christian Bale's batman with Newt from Aliens. FIGHTING ALIENS! This idea is getting better and better...

Please people.<p> Trying to base these movies in a real world and making superhero films this dark is risk enough. Lets also not forget what he did with Joker, everyone cried at the casting of Ledger, the scars, the general look and possible performance of the character. And now everyone who has seen TDK is praising the portrayal of Joker the most.<p>
Besides, in my opinion Robin is not doable in these movies. If they did that, Batman would be branded gay or a pedophile by the audience. There is not enough lightness to these films to support a innocent relationship between Batman and Robin. In other words the world they created is too grim and hostile for sustaining something like that, and it's too realistic that endangering a child in that way could only be proclaimed as lunacy.<p> With all that said, Robin was never such a great character to begin with, Batman can do without him both on the big screen and in the comics.

If you watched Justice League:New Frontier, in the beginning Batman is dark and scary, so scary in fact that a little boy he saves is more afraid of him than his kidnappers. Later in the movie, Robin shows up, and Batman has changed his costume, and when Superman asks why, he says something to the effect of how he became Batman to scare criminals not children. One of Robin's crucial roles, besides being someone to inherit the mantle, is to keep Bruce from going over the edge, being sucked into the darkness that he fights, and give him an anchor back into the real world that he cares about, helping him maintain that goodness that prevents him from killing.
Now, does it mean he needs to be in the movie as a 10 year old kid, wearing yellow? Of course not. The original Robin costume is completely unjustifiable, and I often wonder why DC doesn't retcon that thing out of existence, but you can easily have Dick Grayson as the apprentice figure, giving Bruce hope for the future. I think that they can introduce Dick Grayson in the next movie, and not even have him costume up. He can be an assistant that works from the Bat cave, being trained by Batman. Somewhere down the road, he dons a more realistic costume to save Batman, but they should treat this like a franchise that will have more films (like marvel is doing) and not have to blow there entire load in on movie.

he originally had nothing to do with a Bird. where that went astray i don't know, but the original concept was that of a Robin Hood type kid. Maybe after a while someone based off of a character who avenged wrongs and took from the rich to give to the poor seemed a little silly since he was the ward of a billionaire. oh there i go with classism again, but you see the point, the bird thing has gotten out of hand, birds don't wear green mideval mocassins and a cord-laced tunic.

This is not supposed to be some isolationist wet dream...thousands of kids are abandoned and not adopted when they need it most, at that crucial age of 13...watch the wire and maybe you'll get an idea....it was always nice in the comic books when batman reflected on his Robin's struggles with his parents. I remember reading the first appearance of nightwing, and thinking, this is why I like batman. He has a complicated family life, structure that he has built around robin, batwoman, oracle, alfred, etc.

The character "Robin" (named for Robin Hood and NOT a robin-red breast bird as later ret-cons propose) was a completely seperate character that appeared in solo adventures before the then publisher of what would become DC decided Batman was too dark and threw the boy-wonder into a series and role for which he was never intended. I'm glad Nolan and Bale are doing their parts to restore Bob Kane's original vision. Batman's world is supposed to be dark. A little kid dressed up as a flamboyant Robin Hood makes Batman seem ridiculous and reckless. I hope Bale really said this and I hope we never see the boy-blunder in this series.

Bob Kane preferred a solo Batman- from the wiki on the creation of batman and robin:
"Sales nearly doubled, despite Kane's preference for a solo Batman, and it sparked a proliferation of "kid sidekicks".[<P>yeah i know, 'if it's googled or wiki'd it must be true', but still.

I never said Robin didn't matter. I just said he didn't in this series. There is a HUGE difference in those arguements. I have seen The New Frontier and that did go throught my mind. I just wanted to know how he would fit, or what he would bring to improve on this particular series. Nice arguement but for the wrong question.

with most talkbackers. The Nolan vision is not their vision for Batman. Many are so short sighted that since this particular "universe" does not fit the "perfect script" they have in their head then the direction has to be wrong. Is what Nolan is doing the exact way I would? Of course not. I have many thoughts on how I feel Begins could be better but I don't think Nolan is an idiot for not doing it "my" way. It's short sighted and laughable and iwontwin is being a prime example of this. Robin does not fit in this series period.

Well the arguments of why he matters in the comics, probably apply even more to the movies, if TDK is as dark and tragic, and death filled as the rumors are suggestings. One of the things that Nolan and Co. need to be concerned with is that as much I as I love the Dark tone of these movies, Batman has to remain a Hero, and if you just pile on bad thing after bad thing on him, how does an organic story keep him from becoming the punisher? I think the addition of D. Grayson to the franchise offers the counter balance to all the crap that happens to Batman. Also, it fits thematically with BB, such as how Bruce choose to become a symbol, something that can be incorruptible, that can be everlasting. Having an heir would add to that everlasting aspect.

All you offer is YOUR own version of what you claim is HIS version. Get your OWN version! In my version, there is no aversion to Robin, simply a version where robin is a virgin crimefighter.
I'm simply claiming, my version is a better version.

As valid as an arguement as I have heard, however the kid sidekick thing I still think is too risky for the dark tone. Who was it in Begins that kept Bruce in check? Who was his conscience? Alfred. I think the Nolanverse is set up where Bruce has that support system. The Punisher has no one really. Bruce has always had Alfred to keep him honest and human. Once again I love the character of Robin always have one of my favorite series in Batman is "A Lonely Place of Dying" where Tim Drake is introduced and Nighwing year one is sensational, my only way to see that Robin would work would be a kid with smarts helping Bruce out in the lab or research and maybe using Robin as a code name in communications but that really is not Robin to me. I don't know I just don't see how it can be done without either ruining the spirit of the character or ruining the series.

The movies are fine enough as they are just by focusing on Batman. A possibility could include Bruce having to adopt a young Dick and having him as a background character like Alfred, NOT as Robin... not yet... the kid like Alfred support Batman from behidn the scenes and can grow older over the course of several movies (at least 3), and when the time is right could go out of his way to aid a reluctant Batman. It could work, but only in the way I described, and even then, it's not necesary.

Some of you silly fuckers seem to have Batman confused with an episode of Family Ties. Batman doesn't have time for a goddamned family. Batman is busy fighting crime. Sidekicks named after red chested birds have no place in the Batman universe, end of story.

"Robin does not fit in this series period"<p>that seems a bit short sighted, which is your beef with "most Talkbackers". how is saying that any less shortsighted than someone saying that Robin should be in?

BEGINS was OK. I still like the original Burton film better. Nolan just takes everything so damn seriously--I don't want any more BATMAN & ROBIN fiascos but there has to be a happy medium in there somewhere. I still say a "period" Batman set in the late 30's or 40's would be much more compelling (for me anyway).

That to me is the greatest appeal of Batman... that insatiable need for vengance, justice and payback all rolled into one. Your point is well taken...if he was the son of an auto mechanic we would both be able to relate a little better. He would still be a crazy, driven motherfucker....just not as interesting.

*If Dick were like 16 when Bruce takes him in. And fuck me* <P>
See, you said it yourself, it just sounds like a bad idea. <p>
Personally, I like Batman a lot better than Robin, I have boxes of Bats comics and always get turned off when Robin shows up. He's more of a crutch to Batman if anything.

Have you seen Batman Begins? I haven't seen TDK but from what I know it's darker. How would a teen kid in a bright red outfit fit in that? I'm basing my opinion on what I've seen. Most of the arguement for Robin are based on bullcrap like "Batman has to have a son," or "Robin is synonymus with Batman," or other statements that are just empty, pointless, rhetoric. That's how it's less shortsighted.

"Dark, grim, haunting and visionary, "The Dark Knight" is nothing short of brilliant, the best and scariest comic hero adaptation you are likely to see this summer season, and perhaps during the whole year."
<p>
"The haunting and visionary Dark Knight soars on the wings of untamed imagination. It's full of surprises you don't see coming. And just try to get it out of your dreams."

I guess the only way I'd like to see a Robin character is if it's just Dick Grayson with the illusion that he'd become Robin. Maybe he would see the Batcave and not say anything... Perhaps his training would be a secret of only his and Alfred's or something. A Smallville-esque approach -- no tights and no flights.. err fights.<br><br> I don't think it would fit in this trilogy, but maybe in a the next ark. Right now it's too dark and Bruce is too young to be anyone's father figure, he hasn't even figured out who he wants to be yet. Let the man become content with the bat before he goes training the bird...

Definitly the straight out sidekick ala the comics origin wouldn't fit. Don't get me wrong, I can see this cutting both ways, but I have loved Robin as character, and I think that if people saw Robin the way he has evolved and his place in the DC universe as it is now, people would not think he sucks either. The problem is that the mainstream potrayals of Robin have been 60s Batman (but based on that BB shouldn't exist either) and Shumacker. A way it could work would be bastardized Dick Grayson/ Tim Drake. After a Lonely place of Dying, Tim was being trained for a while. He didn't just put on the costume again, and start patrolling in the batmobile. He only went into the field to Save Batman from the scarecrow and he didn't even wear the costume then. So here's a way you could get Grayson in that fits. His parents die in the circus accident, through a mob extortion plot. 12-14 year old Dick sees who it is, and is consumed that he didn't say anything about someone being there that shouldn't be in the tent.Bruce Wayne, seeing simialarties with what happened to him, tries to hunt down the killer. Grayson identifies, Mobster Tony Zuccu through photo lineup, and is sent to foster/care or orphanage. You could have a Robin's Reckoning like story from TAS where Grayson tries to find Zucco himself, running into Batman where Zucco gets away, and Batman realizes that if the kid isn't monitored/trained he will end up dead and won't give up his hunt, and thus decides to take him under his wing and train him in attempt to get him off the streets and keep him safe. That's your basis for having him into the family, and he can take his time before actually going out in costume. Again, you can have it down the road in another movie, where he has to go out to save Batman, after some time of training, which keeps it from being some 12 year old fighting criminals. I think something along those lines would work, could stay dark in tone, and fit the universe.

... of lack of imagination. Robin actually fits perfectly with Nolan's revisionism on Batman. I can only dream of what Alan Moore or Grant Morrison could suggest to Nolan. Robin could be a way dark character if treated properly.

...an orphaned kid that resorts to drug dealing so Bats takes him in. He never suits up in the Nolan series but once or twice puts on a homemade mask and tries to help Batman despite Batman's orders to stay his little ass at home. The little kid should just live in the mansion and be a nosy ass kid that never actually becomes Robin. He shouldnt be introduced until the 4th movie though. And fuck making him a grown as man like Chris O'Donnell. It looks awkward when Bats has to team up with a grown man. he doesnt need a partner. He needs a mentee that looks up to him. He must be a kid of about 12 or 13 with mad CGI enhanced acrobatic skills (like Dick) and mad detective skills (like Tim). I look at the Batman series of the 90s and it did a good job with the second Tim Drake Robin as far as blending him into the dark world and keeping him from seeming too campy. But definitely no Robin for the first 3 or maybe even 4 movies

Reconnaissance and<P>
Observational<P>
Batman<P>
Intelligence<P>
Network<P>
can be a group of kids, or batman's new satellite citizen tracking system (spoiler!)...
might work- if anyone can think of any better words for the acronym, feel free, i'm rushed.

A young version close to what you described might work. Batman would never ask someone to help him in his "quest". Robin should be some kid batman is forced to watch out for as he tries to mimic his hero. But never would he willingly put a kid or anyone else in harm's way like that. Nor should it be a "batman and robin" movie. Its got to be a batman movie with robin in it.

Eh not a bad idea in theory. Once again this is just my opinion and at least you are making a compelling arguement compared to most of the idiocy on here, but I think if you do that it's too much of "Robin Begins" and not enough Batman being Batman if that makes any sense. The Batman Animated series did it right. Robin in about a little under half of the episodes but in a movie where your trying to tell a self-contained story in two hours and you have two to three years between installments I just think having focus on Robin and his training and all that would sacrifice all the great stories that could be told about Batman. Too much risk for not enough potential reward. The 362 million BB made worldwide and the early reviews for TDK I believe prove that Nolan's current formula is working and to throw in Robin has too much potential to screw it up. To use a very tired cliche. "If it ain't broke don't fix it."

designed to stealthily take percentages of pennies from wealthy accounts and disperse them to low accounts (ala' ROBIN HOOD) or accounts in danger of closing or being overdrawn. some genius kid hacker programs it, but wayne's own accounting software notices it and tracks the original source- hires the kid to design honest software for bat's own use, because the kid didn't do it maliciously, he was just sick of money injustices all around him and the people in his neighborhood.<P> or in hacking into wayne accounts discovers who batman is, but doesn't threaten to blackmail him, just keeps putting pressure on batman to 'let me be your sidekick'...

yeah. make the kid a sub plot of a larger more epic story involving Grayson trying to get revenge on Zucco... This is before Bats even takes him into his home. Make Batman keep running into this kid whose trying to kill Zucco. Bats tries to keep the kid away from the situation and maybe even in the end somewhere, the kid actually shows up and helps Bats. No suit though. Just a high flying ninja kid. Or how about just no RObin and just show Batman as the Batman real fans have grown to love. A loner that fights the most screwed up villians in the DC universe. Bring on the Ventriloquist and the Riddler.

Why not start a new series with Robin.. have the Zucco plot, etc that has been discussed.. at the end of THAT movie he meets Batman and then in Bat 4, 5 whatever we're at at that point you can have the two in a movie. I just think it would be hard to give Robin's backstory screen time in a Batman movie, without screwing it up or making it so coincidental. <br><br>"Oh the villian-of-the-movie killed his parents, that works out perfectly Joel!"

I agree that the focus of the movie shouldn't be on Dick Grayson. But I think you can introduce characters and plots and still have a Batman Centric movie. I don't think you show the training and origin in one movie. That's one of my biggest problems with theses movies. Why do they think that this will be the last batman movie? If done properly Batman is like Bond, you can have dozens of movies. So you don't need to show everything in one 2 hour movie, tied up neatly, otherwise you get Spiderman 3 and Venom. I think it's pretty clear that it would have been better to simply end the movie with Eddie Brock bonding with the symboite and saving him for the next movie than having 15 minutes of a crappy Venom, so why not start threads and themes that continue and span multiple movies? I mean other than to sell Robin toys.....

Obviously we aren't writing a movie here, but there are thousands of ways to make the origin of Dick Grayson fit into a larger Batman movie without having two face kill the flying graysons, or making a Robin Begins. One example off the top of my head, is that Zucco is an underling for a bigger villian like the Ventroliquist or Black Mask, who has taken control of the gotham underworld after the fall of falcone or whoever is in charge in TDK. My point is simply there are plenty of ways to fit the Robin character over several films in this Nolaniverse without screwing it up. And the general dislike of Robin is misplaced because he has rarely been done right in mass market stuff, but all it takes to change that is it done right....

Personal opinion again but by your idea would leave me bored. Batman 3 he gets the did. Batman 4 he trains the kid. Batman 5 does the kid put the suit on, and unfortunately we don't know if there will be another after 3. Nolan is only contracted for one more I think Bale maybe 2 more? You saw how the quality nosedived the last time they replaced directors and actors. I agree with you in the comparison with Venom but once again I just don't see how the "Kid sidekick" concept could work and this series is doing just fine without him. If Robin could make it better or help breathe life into a tired franchise I say go for it but this series needs nothing of that sort. Robin just isn't necessary in this series in my opinion.

... as a member of the Teen Titans, or Titans, whatever the hell they're calling it anymore. Sometimes he works as sort of Batman's unexpected, secret weapon. Bats is taking out the main villain while the henchmen are getting away, in swoops this friggin' kid with a bo staff and slingshot to beat the snot out of them... that sort of thing. Robin appearances in Batman should always be kept at a minimum. In Nolan's take on Batman, I agree... Robin would just be totally out-of-place.

ROBIN Is a huge character in the comic story. Teen Titans was a massive hit as a show. Kids LOVE robin. WB is right to force Nolan AKA MR. REAL to take away from an important part of the batman story.
Nolan can only take it so far, but if there is a movie about Hercules, I definitely want to see Zeus...same goes with robin

Fair enough. Like I said, it cuts both ways, but I was just making a case on how it could be done, in a way that fits, and COULD make a good story line. Whether it will be is not up to the likes of you or me, and I was more countering the visceral gut hatred some people have for Robin.
Also,I do agree that the quality could suck under a change in talent, but again I point to James Bond, which for the most part has stood up pretty will with different talent over the years.. (yes, yes I am aware that some were not that good, but you get my point). I
One of the problems with Comics to Movies is that Comics have a much longer life, and they can take their time to build stories over long periods of time. Movies try to hard to give us everything in 2 hours. I think a Batman Series thats lasts 7-8 years that wasn't 90210'd like Smallville with the right tone would be better than any movie.....

The Nolanverse isn't for kids so your arguement holds no water. I read the comics and plenty of quality stories are without Robin. You can't have Hercules without Zeus because Zeus is integral in the creation of Hercules. Without Zeus there is no Hercules, without Batman there is no Robin, but there is Batman with or without Robin.

throughout a movie we see robin go on adventures with batman, ride in the batmobile, help him solve crimes andshit. everything is hunky-dorey, almost too friendly. then at the end we find out that robin was all in batman's mind- his own guilt for having a kid from the narrows named robin greyson get killed while trying to fight crime like his hero batman. batman breaks down when this is all revealed to him when alfred has no knowledge of a 'robin'. <P>TWIST!

... no grown ass man in his right mind would put a kid in harm's way. Thus Robin would have to be a rebel that helps out when he's not asked. No costume. No nothing. Have him help Bats with his detective work but no fighting until he tracks Bats down one day and saves him from the Scarecrow or some shit. Just make him a background character and allow people to use their imaginations for what happens later. Introduce Barbara Gordon and others but don't have them suit up. A story can never completely revolve around him. However, I must say, I can't see how anticipation for a future Bat movie can top the introduction of the Joker... ever. This might be as good as it gets for mainstream audiences.

..I believe the Batman story should be continued with an adult oriented tv show (samurai champloo, spawn, adult swim type of thing) sometime akin to the look in Gotham Knight, the movie didn't work but the artwork and style of the film was better than what WB has done or any other imitation of the original TAS. I'd wish they'd stop marketing him to kids so much, He's the last person you'd want as a role model for your child. Batman is a character who deserves more than that.

You introduce the character of Dick Grayson (or, with today's audience Richard) and have his story--the chase after Zucco--be one of hte main subplots of the movie while Batman keeps running into him, finally saving Richard from becoming a monster.<p>
Then Batman's taking him in would bring the idea of his character full-circle and make him the teacher/father figure/mentor and he can even ask young Grayson "Why do we fall? To learn to pick ourselves back up again.."<p>
The problem of Robin is twofold:<p>
How you present his costume/character.<p>
And how young he is in battle.<p>
So, by introducing the character as a foil/dependant/acolyte for Batman without making him into Robin, you give the Batman character what he needs and don't insult the tone of BB and TDK...

They makes toys to make money. The average age of a comic buyer is 30. If you can watch Batman Begins and then hear that many have asked how TDK avoided an R rating and then tell me its for kids then you are an idiot. They have made action figures for Friday the 13th and Nightmare on Elm St. as well as Spawn. You telling me those are for kids? Dude open your freaking eyes or better yet open your mind and let some common sense it. Geez.

"how come we seem to be the only ones noticing this? " because everyone is too busy throwing dick comparisons around here and in-fighting because the batman is not their batman. the more you watch BB the more obvious it is. it only took me once though.

The question as before is, "why do it?" Robin adds nothing to movies (and neither did George the Looney). You don't need him. You've only got two hours to tell a story. If half the story is taken up by Robin, or worse, by Batman having to rescue Robin, the story will suffer. Either leave him in comic books or make a Nightwing film with a Batman cameo.

Why should it be just for kids? Because it's outlandish? They are selling TDK toys at walmart to make money, not that im critizing that because i bought tons of them as a kid. Batman is too deep and complicated for a WB kiddie show or anything like that, like i said it deserves more than that. The stories (the ones ive seen at least) seem to be the same stories told over and over, which is cool sometimes, but a adult tv show for bats could go somewhere new i think. The character is too interesting to be lost to saturday morning cartoon shows. Its got myth behind it, mystery, supense and death, those things are watered down when they are approached with a kid-friendly attitude. Mostly what i'd like to see them do is stop imitating TAS, which i loved btw.

once again they sell freddy kids costumes and vampire and all the like at Halloween, and one marginal example does not make your arguement. Try something else at least some people are making at least a decent case your just being idiotic.

IS for a child... i wasnt arguing that. Im talking potential for what COULD be done with him, and what IS being done with BB and TDK. I'm not saying cut kids out, im just saying a television show doesnt have to be an "accessory" or a "toy" for kids featuring batman and can instead take the center stage.

this kid- or teen- and the story DON'T rely on batman to rescue him or vice versa, but is a tough smart kid that doesn't need batman at all, and shows bruce what a well-grounded-yet prematurely wisened from a rough life- kid is supoposed to be-.
i mean after bruce's parents were killed do we know what happened between then and him wanting to kill chill, running off to china? his teems are as mysterious and missing as Jesus's!

The movie opens in a brighter much campier Gotham. Movie goers quit eating their popcorn and silently mutter "WTF" to themselves as a smiling Batman in tight fitting nylons graces the scene with his bubbly prepubescent sidekick in green underwear. For the whole movie Batman fights alongside Robin and saves the day time and time again... but wait! There's a TWIST! In the end, a chained up Batman watches the Mad Hatter violently beat and rape the Boy Wonder. After a furious Bats vows to avenge his partner, the top hat sporting villian (played by M. Night of course) reveals the truth: Robin is all in Batman's mind. He was never actually there. The colorful world the audience has been following suddenly becomes the gritty Nolanverse we all love. Flashback to earlier scenes and we see Batman talking to himself as he fights alongside his imaginary sidekick. Criminals are baffled as Bats keeps saying "Good one old chum!" Flashback to another scene where we see Alfred silently shedding a tear as Bruce orders him to make Dick a sandwhich. "Oh dear," Alfred silently mutters in a corner. "When will Master Bruce's madness end?" We sharply return to the present as Batman comes to a startling revelation. It turns out Robin was actually a kid Batman accidentally killed with a Batarang while trying to apprehend a street thug. Fade to black and the words "Directed by M. Night Shyamalan" prominently appear. Roll credits and let the Oscar Buzz begin

don't think that a kid can't appreciate gritty or truly dark stories simply because their kids, most of the kids who couldnt handle those types of themes are groomed that way by society and their parents. A kids world doesnt need to be all sunshine and mickey mouse.

Not in this series they are not. From what I've seen I wouldn't take my kid to see this Joker. This series is about the grittier stories. Let the kids watch The Batman, and read The Batman Strikes and all that but let the adults have thier stories as well and leave Robin out of them.

I'm glad somebody brought him up.
Frankly after this latest debacle, I think M. needs a "time out."
He needs to stop making "high concept" films, namely the ones you could write on a cocktail napkin that Hollywood moneybags-types love, and get back to telling stories. "The Happening" didn't and Pledge can only do so much on a t*rd.

i'm starting to like the concept of robin being a figment of batman's psyche. a ghost that haunts him after being run down by the alley-blasting, gun-blazing bat-pod. okay not really but it would make a good elseworlds tale or something. or a whole episode where batman is hanf=ging out with jason todd in present day because mad hatter or hugo strange have him trapped in some virtual world and are playing the part of jason todd's robin to get info out of batman and or drive him crazy.

keep a 100+ million dollar bats all to themselves? I think a happy medium could be arranged, where 12 year olds, and kids can have fun watching this film.
You can't have HOWARD STERN WITHOUT ROBIN
SAME GOES FOR BATS
Please don't turn Batman Nolan verse into the red light district.

Although I do realize bale's name is on this movie and his rep, as an actor you kinda gotta be willing to be a vessel. I know its Bale who in some ways is kinda carrying this movie, but I just dont like the idea of an actor I like so much putting up a hissy fit, but if the quote is real I dont think he'd really do that. I think he's just voicing his distaste for the character, which isn't unwarrented after Chris O'Donell (sp?)

My god your daft. Killing Joke, No Robin. Batman Year One, no Robin. The Long Halloween no Robin. Robin does not have to be in a Batman movie and guess what adults are keeping this franchise because it was made for adults. You want a happy medium? Go buy the Bruce Timm animated series on DVD which had great stories with and without Robin, so guess what it can be done without him in any medium but he won't work in every medium.The two weakest movies in the prior series were the ones with Robin leave him in the comics and cartoons, and my red light district comment was a sarcastic comment to your thinner than paper arguements. Give me one reason why these movies can't be made without Robin? BB was fine without him TDK will be and so will any future Batman movie.

....The way hayden christensen delivers a line. If I had a guess I'd say he's an actor simply because of his looks, who could listen to him and say "that line was perfect"? Hope he finds a genre of movies he is more suited for.. silent films?? oh yes, i went there

So every movie that's makes one hundred million or more should be accessible to kids? The Matrix was kid friendly with it's nice fat R rating? Hmm I guess instead of those weird tentacle machine monsters it should have been pink teddy bears attacking the ship, or hey how about replacing the agents with teletubbies? That work in your "everything is for kids" delusion?

there will always be a one definative version of something like this, for the moment, for alot of people, its Nolan's version. We've seen kiddized version of batman and it made eyes bleed. Yes kids can have their toys and their version of batman, but what IIIII was saying was that i'd like an cartoon that didnt factor in kids because kids can handle the dark side of him just fine.

The idea of a superhero raised by another superhero is a good idea, it was what could have been done with robin, a potentially badass idea, instead of a sidekick. but robin is too ingraved in batman to dissappear completely. Besides, done right he CAN be fun and a nice change from dark and demented.

Just like Ang Lee's Hulk, a good film with an adult storyline, you cannot have a batman film franchise become a series of the graphic novels. And besides, the cartoon was great, but so are many of the stories with Tim Drake, I especially like the demons head. Oracle and batgirl are awesome characters as well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman_supporting_characters

The man can do no wrong in my book but I think its too soon for The Boy Wonder. I knolw there using Dark Victory but when using Robin you have to walk a thin line. It could easily fall into camp.It could work but they have to use Dick Grayson and not Kill him off. you can kill Jason Todd Everyone hated him as robin but make no mistake they Killed Robin 2 Not Dick Grayson. Though I must say it would add emotional depth to follow the death of Todd but you have to Graysons story first.
That being said I hope Batman 3 is another Solo Bats.

Part of the reason for success WAS him, Matthew Fox does have a good batman look and could make a fine back-up incase Bale splits. But Bale took the legend to a place few could. He's a damn good actor, like him or not. You look at him and he is not your average every-man. Bale looks like a man with a purpose which IS batman.

What's your problem with Bale? You're constantly going on and on about him. This is fucking obsession. Does anyone else hear your imagined speech impediment? The guy gets props from all the other actors of his generation; great directors want to work with him; he's made some great performances, but the subject of Batman comes up and all you can do is whine like a teenage girl he rejected at a dance. Christian Bale doesn't need you, and you don't need Christian Bale. Walk away, man. Just walk away.

Batman began as a dark vigilante that shot people so if we go by how it "begins" then your arguement is even more pointless. Face it man every arguement you present has holes you can drive a truck through. Give it up.

Gotham Nights, Shadow of the Bat... just look to the titles.
I hope Nolan makes use of Bat's hugeassortment of villians. But I hope he doesn't have them "team up" to fight Batman. That's what makes it seem campy and shitty. Villians wouldn't team up with each other. That's where Spider-man 3 fell off. Just little sub-plots where each villian is his own story/battle of a larger story... like Hush. That way we could see all of the villians and they won't fall into the same traps of the 90s Bat movies. Also, I hope Nolan quits having chicks discover Bat's identity. Every Batman movie of the past 20 years has had a chick discover Bat's true identity. Please kill Rachel Dawes and have Bat's identiy be the world's best kept secret again. Maybe have the Riddler discover Bat's identity like he did in Hush but keep it to himself since the Riddler would never tell the Gotham's greatest riddle.

He was good in Harsh Times. Good in Rescue Dawn. He was good in The Prestige. He was good in American Psycho. He was good in some stupid period movie based on something by one of the Bronte sisters. It might be that most of his roles haven't called for him to display much range, but shit, he DOES act. And you know, if you just really, really don't like his face, then... fuck it. That's why you two should break up.

Thats the way it should be done...cause you ras didnt die in the first one..the train just went off the trac....But now Talia should come in for the revenge or the daughter of the demon angle.
Forget penguin,forget riddler..
With harvey dent as two face..the daughter of the demon would be perfect..especially if liam neeson comes back as the aged..ras al goul(sorry if mispelled..dont have a cow...moo)
that would round out the trilogy for now...as for the first person I can think of...(hate to say it) but anjolina jolie as talia..Im sure others can come up with better..peace...

if they make Robin darker than Batman. I say make Robin go on a rampage after his parents are killed so to show where Bruce Wayne could've gone if he killed Chill. Thats how they could explain why he takes him under his wing, because he reminds him of him in some ways. Remember, we freaked out when Ledger was cast, maybe Nolan can pull it off with another original casting choice. One thing I would worry about is making sure that characters stands on its own. In previous attempts Robin always seemed to be Batman's prison bitch and then turn into a whiny emo bitch.

I thought he did a good job, again within the range of the role. Agree that the whole thing seemed really small scale. But I think the guy's work speaks for itself, I'm just saying you gotta let him go.

used to never give a crap about him until he got the Batman role. Hardly heard any good things about him on this site from the talkbackers. I remember when he got the role how many of you were disgusted and appalled by the directors choice for Batman. These are now the same people that would justify anything Bale does regardless of the final artistic outcome.

Now it all makes sense, the repressed homosexuality, personal grudge against Bale and Nolan, and yearning to see Batman prancing around with a 13 year old boy in his underwear. You know DANNY, the first time I watched Lost Boys and noticed that you had decorated Haim's character's room with posters of men with their shirts off, I knew something was wrong with you.

If you make Robin, instead of a smart-mouthed boyscout, basically a street kid and constant runaway from a family of circus performers. He's only with the circus cause he's court ordered to be with his family, or be tried as an adult. There was an earlier poster who said Robin's fighting style should be influenced by Parkour (think the foot chase scene in Africa in Casino Royale), making him able to move in ways Batman can't. Now, story-wise, take a Batman who's just, maybe, 4 years older. He's becoming more reckless, more violent, he almost killed a man. He needs to pull back. Introduce underboss Tony Zucco, reluctant member of the Thorne Gang, one of the last bastions of the old organized crime in Gotham. Tony has a hot-head, and old man Haley won't pay. Cue traditional death of the Grayson's. Just one problem, Batman was in the audience. Lots of orphan's in Gotham. This kid ain't his problem, so why is he still thinking about him? Grayson turns to the streets, and goes about trying to violently deal with Zucco himself (a la, Bruce's confrontation with Falcone in Batman Begins). He's rescued by the Batman and taken to a shelter. Seeing so many parallels, and realizing the kid is dead-meat on the street with Zucco looking for him, Wayne offers to Gordon to take the boy in, use his house as a sort of safe-house, where Gordon himself would personally come and inspect the conditions (will he discover those wonderful toys?!). So lets say Grayson is a crafty little fucker. Not only does he discover the Batcave, he decides to assemble his own suit while Bruce is away and Alfred sleeps, so that he can eventually take down Zucco. You can probably imagine the rest, but if they keep it gritty, realistic, with Batman ultimately realizing that with Robin around, he feels much less a monster of the dark, and more a hero.

But I'm in favor of lots of stuff from Batman that Nolan ain't. Maybe when Nolan's third film hits and people find it unsatisfying and abandon their support of Nolan, (a la Raimi) the time will be right for another new director to take the helm and explore some of those elements.

a sexually ambiguous Robin would be awesome!<p>I know that in these talkbacks, mentioning something about sexuality, gender, etc, is like talking about universal health care in congress, but bear with me.<p>you find a very androgynous actor, and make the Robin character neither definitively a guy or a girl, just leave it completely open. have Bruce Wayne inquire about it once, and the reply is, "does it make a difference?" and wayne shrugs and that's it. THE FIRST TRANSGENDER MAIN CHARACTER EVER IN A HOLLYWOOD FILM! (not counting the clapping chickdude from X-Men 3, since it sucked and s/he was in it for 3 seconds)<p>it would be huge publicity, and garner huge support form the LGBT community, and it would definitely be a worthy addition to the growing list of comic book Batman staples that have been reinvented for Nolan's Batman universe.<p>come on guys, if you're honest, you know it would be cool...

They could do it, but what it would need to be (and I have no idea if this has a precedent in the funny books) is make Robin a kid, like young, 9 or 10. Have Alfred basically make the decision to bring him into the household (as a way to try and temper Bruce's mania), then have the kid stumble onto Bruce's secret somehow...needs to be an accident, not purposeful. Then Batman/Bruce forbids the kid from getting invovled (of course), but the kid gets caught up in the idea of being a super hero and how 'cool' it is, so he puts together a pathetic custome and tries to emulate Batman (I know this is sounding like 'Forever') but it would have to be that way, because no way would Nolan's Batman allow a kid to tag along...no way! So then the kid gets into trouble, and leads to trouble for Bruce because the kid knows! I think then you basically have the Joker or some other sick, twisted, freak from Bats' rouge gallery torture the kid to death while Batman tries to figure out where he is. It would be a pretty good way to address Bruce's eccentricies and the morality of what he is doing. Anyway, that would have to be how it is. In no way should Robin (if introduced at all, and I am with Bale {allegedly}, it is a bad idea) be an invited sidekick, nor should he be at all effective in fighting criminals, because frankly that was always horse shit.

is to have Bruce totally reject the idea, not wanting to introduce this sort of fucked up shit to a kid, but at a junction it becomes clear that Robin's going to try and do what Batman does with or without his help, and so Bruce then feels a moral obligation to train and oversee him. This leads to a humanizing of Bruce Wayne. The dynamic can more militaristic, with both men having the idea that Robin is apprenticing until he can take over for Batman, when Bruce gets too old.

Robin should be a cautious optimist in a cynnical world, but deep down the kid knows the world is fucked up, so Batman is an idol. Remember Matilida in the Professional? She was a kid with an adult job, an adult friend, and she knew the world was run by adults and adults can be monsters. The problem with child-actors is that they're not always believeable. The kid can't come off like a kid actor, or the entire suspension of disbelief is blown. If they're going to do this, someone needs to discover the next-future-Johnny Depp first.

I wasn't defending a pedophile in that thread, I was merely trying to explain to you what a douchebag you were. I was attacking YOU not defending him. I'm starting to think you are utterly illiterate. At the very least you have difficulty with reading comprehension. Besides that, you seem to be struggling with contradictory viewpoints, that being you're against male on female pedophilia but seem to be all but craving to see a nubile young boy in a spandex onesey in the next Batman film. In fact seeing that kid on the big screen seems to be your #1 concern, beyond script, director, or star...and here you are trying desperately to explain to us how much Nolan, Bale and the 'new' Batman series sucks, and how we'd all realize the error of our ways if we just listened to you and focused on getting some NAMBLA action up on the screen. You do whatever you have to to rub one out, but please leave it out of my Batman films...

being in the film but not yet realized as Robin as some of you are suggesting, but unlike Dannyglover I have no desire to see one of the Culkin kids wearing a zorro mask, bending over backwards and grabbing his own ankles.

It could happen. It could even happen in this universe (either Batman TAS-Tim Drake style/similar to it or like the guy above said about him already essentially being a vigilante the Bat has to hone)...but if that's not what Bale or Nolan want - then it doesn't need to happen. They have ALREADY put something great together...and it will continue to be great w/ or w/ out Robin.
If the (movie) series start to suck...we'd have a reason to piss and moan about bringing the Robin dynamic...which many would flip flop like a liberal and do if it started to get poor...but again - they already put great stuff together and I'm A OK if they keep on rolling as is w/ out the Robin piece.

I don't need to see Robin for awhile, but if they do, they should make the kid really young. Like the Robin in Dark Knight Returns. It made Batman seem even darker by allowing a small child to get involved with him. But the franchise is doing great without Robin so far, so fuck him.

These are the early years of the Batman and it should just focus on how Batman evolves at a crime fighter and a dective. Adding Robin, even in the 3rd movie would be distracting and really out of place with this more darker version. Besides I still have nightmares from the last BATMAN AND ROBIN movie! Its like my brain was forced to like ass and accept it as fucking ice cream! If the idea of adding Robin is in plan then, they better make the events leading to and having Robin as dark and as grusome as this twist version of the Joker.

that would be a good title for the third flick. about the best of all existing bat titles left, after dark knight. wouldn't go with world's greatest detective, 'cause so far he hasn't really proven that. and 'world's greatest' works for a comic title but sounds corny and arrogant for a movie.

she's an infant in batman begins, so, yeah- that won't happen in nolan's series.
<P>commisioner gordon has a son though- wonder if he dies in TDK becaus as far as i know he doesn't exist in the comics, does he?

Batman was supposed to be smart... nobody with a brain would let a kid tag along to fight crime... let alone in that bright colored outfit... Batman is supposed to be dark and hidden... the whole concept of Robin was right up there with Spiderman clones.

Dick Grayson witnesses parents murder, gets pissy cause of the whole puberty thing, becomes a hard-ass vigilante in the same vein as Batman...only he kills the crooks instead of apprehending them. Make a cool villain to kill off at the end to depress Bruce Wayne even more.

Gordons son is in the comics. He lives in Chigao whith his mom. After Gordon and Barbara Divorced. Gordon married Sarah Essen they are hardley mentioned. However they are in Miller's Year one and Lobe and Sale's Long Halloween and Dark Victory.

Robin would only work in nolans batman if he werent in a costume and he was a chick..in other words a RINO..They should borrow a lil from batman returns and make a robin character similar to that catwoman.

July 3, 2008, 9:56 p.m. CST

by huggerorange

if theres one thing the nolan series is missing , its hot women and batman getting laid by them.

Let me first say, I hope Nolan doesn't put Robin into any film. He's just doesn't fit. Period.
Realistically, Batman would setup informers throughout the city to keep tabs on the criminal underground. Dick Grayson, a lost, dejected on again, off again criminal could be setup as one of those snitches for Batman.
That way, you'd have no reason for a costume as Dick Grayson would be in street clothes working undercover. No reason for Grayson to be in Wayne Manor. You wouldn't even need an origin story.

Robin really isn't less realistic than Batman, if Nolan's films must insist on being "realistic." How did Nolan handle Batman's origins? what's realistic if a rich boy saw his parents gunned down? Well, realistically, he might try to kill the guy who did it, he might drop out for a while, he might turn to petty crime. He might even join up with a cult for spiritual fulfillment. That's all realistic, and that's what they did. But you know, they still had to have him get into a ridiculous Bat costume anyway. It's not realistic, but that's the expectation, so they had to make it fit. And they did. So, would he realistically take on Robin at this point? no. but that's the expectation based on 68 out of 69 years of the character's history. So, they could again find some way to make it realistic even when it's not. And no, it doesn't have to seem responsible or totally make sense. So, the only way it might work is for there to be a deep understanding between two people who experience almost exactly the same pain. Yeah, it's reckless and Dangerous to bring a kid in. But, in a way, Dick is one of the few people who truly understands Bruce and can get inside Bruce's head and feel his pain the way Bruce feels it. That's why he does it. Dick is the only one who truly understands Bruce. (with the exception of Maybe Alfred, but even Alfred's a bit different. Alfred didn't lose his parents as a boy, but last a friend as a man. Plus, he didn't see it happen.)

Without Robin, Batman becomes too dark and brooding...you can't keep making the dark knight over and over, which is what Nolan wants to do.
Michael Caine is ok, but i'm telling you, it will get old after the next film.
I can't believe all this Robin dislike.

1. Batman has seen children's parents gunned down over and over again. It's part of his nightly routine. The idea that seeing it happen for the umpteenth time but in a circus environment would move him to adopt the kid is ridiculous.
<p>2. If Batman really cared about Dick's wellbeing, he wouldn't steal him away from his loved ones in the circus.
<p>3. If Batman really cared about Dick's safety, he wouldn't dress him up in a brightly colored, short-sleeved, very helmetless costume. The kid might as well have a target painted on him. And moreover, he would be so visible that you could track Batman's movements, too.
<p>4. How many of you have ever met anybody with blue eyes and black hair? Well, DC would have you believe that Bruce Wayne, Dick Grayson and Tim Drake all have those traits.
<p>5. If we have a Robin then, according to unspoken modern movie rules, Robin must be given a girlfriend, lest people make jokes about he and Batman. But a lot of Batman fans really wouldn't stomach that on the big screen.
<p>6. We all know the Dick Grayson storyline and many of us are sick of seeing it again and again and again.
<p>7. Dick Grayson = Scrappy Doo = Chibi Moon = Chauchie = Cousin Oliver = Heroes Season Two = Schumaker nipples on the Batsuit = topless Batmobile = killing-off Bat-villains = FLAMES ON OPTIMUS.
<p>8. Someone voiced concern over a Batman who's too dark because Batman Returns disturbed them. To them, I say, BR was not dark -- it was Burton. Give us a Dirty Harry Batman any time.

You have no respect or knowledge or batman so stop sprouting off about what huge fans you are. <p> Robin is a part of the batman lore. I would rather see how he's brought into THIS universe over the crapped out "we're too fucking high and mighty to have Robin" <p> look, I'm not a robin fan, per say, but i am a batman fan. Robin SHOULD be brought in, even if only briefly. has no one ever heard of story arch? character development?

Judging from the reviews of TDK out there, the jump in quality between BB and TDK is HUGE and it's THE movie fans of Batman and comics in general have been waiting for. From what I've seen so far, there's no reason for doubt.<p>So when Nolan says no Robin, I trust him, and you should too.<p>

I'm kind of in the "no Robin" camp, but I don't think that you have to announce that you'll never use Robin in the movies. Just don't use him. By making this announcement, Bale's just running the risk of pissing off part of the fanbase. It's like, if I walk into a party and announce loudly to the whole romm that I will not be going home with any fat chicks. I don't have to annouce it, just not go home with any.

Eventually, Batman will need Robin. He can't get the understanding from normal folks in his 'real' life, and Alfred won't live forever. Batman doesn't love people the way normal people do, because he can't have that vulnerability. So he needs to take on someone who can share in both. Yeah, it sounds faggy until you have a kid. Batman needs family, and no one out there will understand him like Robin, because their origins are very similar. Batman needs someone to keep him from becoming a monster through and through.<p>Nolan could do it right, believe me. From what he's done so far, he'd make a HELL of a good choice as to origin and reality of having a 'kid' sidekick. Bale probably didn't say this, but even if he did, I think all it would take is some convincing on the brothers Nolan's part.

Shit, have him grown up already. Not a 'kid', but acting like one. Have him do what Wayne did, but with a head start because he was already trained as an acrobat. But, unlike Wayne, he's 'too reckless' and doesn't care about tactics or ridding the world of evil, just revenge. He steals from the criminals and gives the money away, or sommat. So Batman has to do something. It's not like the kid is killing anyone..yet..or getting innocents put in danger..yet..<p>Batman decides to take the kid under his guidance. Hell, they wouldn't have to live in the same house, all you have to say is that the Graysons were fucking famous and had a bajillion dollars, and died when Dick was 18. He trained for a few years, hell, even make him train with Al Ghul's people during the time that Batman is out learning how to be Batman in Begins, and they point him like a weapon at Gotham, sort of a Plan B...But Grayson never intended to be a Ninja for hire, just wanted to learn ways of hurting people. Hell, I could write this little story up, and I don't even do this shit for a living...yet. :)

It does seem as though Mr. Bale is not much of a fan of the idea that DC has a much larger univers that the caped crusader is a part of. When it has been asked of him his opinion on Superman vs. Batman or Justice Leauge and now potentionaly having a ledgendary sidekick fight crime along side of him Bale wants no part of it. I can understand that he wants to be the star of the show, but Marvel really does have something cool going on that I can onlt hope that DC will do as well.

I'm fucking nuts for Batman. I know a fucking LOT about Batman. He's been my favorite comic character, and near the top of my list for fictional characters since I was little.<p>That said, let me school you guys who've come late to the party on Robin...<p>1. The fans voted to kill Jason Todd. Not Robin. Jason Todd was a whiny prick that nobody liked, except Batman.<p>2. Robin's outfit in the comics in the beginning was not meant to be a Robin Red-Breast kind of thing, but a Robin Hood kind of thing. Brightly colored was better than black, because in those days, not everything was grim-n-gritty. Which is why Batman to this day has a big ass penny in his house, to remind him that once, the criminals were more stupid and goofy than evil and cunning. <p>3. Dick Grayson is a good character now as Nightwing, and was a good character since he was part of the Teen Titans back in the day. The red tights thing was a throwback to his acrobat days, and if you were modernizing the story (as Nolan seems to be doing) you could do ANYTHING with the costume as long as the metaphor of Robin stays the same (Young sidekick of Batman that isn't all grim-n-gritty).<p>Anyway, that's my comment on the people who keep tasting shoe leather when they talk about this character. I don't even like Robin that much, and it's not appropriate to do this now in the series. Batman doesn't need Robin in this particular series...I'm just saying it can be done, and not be totally fagotronic.

Don't tell me I know nothing about the character and have no respect for Batman just because I don't want Robin in these movies. I have no "hate" for Robin I just simply don't think the character would work in this series. Batman has had plenty of solo adventures. By your reasoning every issue of Batman that does not contain Robin is crap. I know plenty about Batman and I have great respect and knowledge for the character enough to know that Robin would not work in this series. You're going to tell me I have no respect for the character when most of the idiots on here who want to bring Robin in want to make him that nameless kid in Batman Begins, or have him be some sort of juvenile thug, or little psycho Batman wannabe? That is not Robin and yeah yeah Jason Todd I know but the first Robin was Dick Grayson and any attempt to do otherwise is a prime example of this lack of respect you speak of. You and Iwontwin should have a little convention where you can were your flamboyant redbreasted outfits I'm sure you both own. Get over yourself. This series is just fine without a teenage kid riding Batman's coattails and playing boy hostage. For all you morons who want Robin I just have to ask did you see Batman Forever and Batman and Robin? Furthermore iwontwin you are an idiot pure and simple. Yes let's bring in Ace the bathound I'm sure that will be box office gold. Yeah by the time Batman 5 rolls around let's have Uwe Boll direct Richard Gere as Batman and let's throw in Robin, Batgirl, Batwoman, Ace, and Batmite all take on Anarky, the Joker's Daughter, Orca, and the Mad Hatter. Would that make you happy? Hell let's put nipples on the Batsuit again and have Robin say "Holy Chesire Cat Batman!" Would make that make you happy? Would that fit your cotton candy, bubblegum, everything should be for kids world?" Bendersshinyass because I want to see good stories told on film without a kidsick that means I have no knowledge of the character? That is insane. Robin does not work in this series leave him out.

So fun to see!<p>
"I'm Right! You're wrong!!"<p>
We're just like world government! No one can see the other's opinion, no one wants to listen--when if you think about it BOTH SIDES ARE FUCKING RIGHT.<p>
Look--it is too soon for Robin in this series. BUT ROBIN IS IMPORTANT.<p>
We need to have at least two Robins, one of whom is killed, so someday we can have THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS as a movie...which is something that DC and Warner Brothers really, really wants...and would work as the Batman vs Superman that some fans have been asking for.<p> The problem that everyone has with Robin is that when anyone hears the word, they expect Burt Ward...which is NOT how they would do it now. Robin will wear all black or very muted colors if they made him now, maybe with a hood, to emphasise the Robin Hood origin of the character. If Nolan (or whoever they get to replace him) took the time to keep with the "realistic" world that Nolan and Bale were a part of--there are many different ways to bring Robin and other allies into the fold without it being cheesy, "Gay" or stupid. I guess everone "He-man" on this talkback has never had a son or younger brother who grew up in front of them...because any adult male who hangs out with a young boy MUST be a pederast of gay.<p>
Fucking Idiots.<p>
And Pro-Robin-ites...It will not happen in the next movie, and possibly not while Nolan and Bale are attached...we'll just have to deal with it.

You're my butler so I think you should know: I've killed a lot of people. Some girls in the apartment uptown uh, some homeless people maybe 5 or 10 um an NYU girl I met in Central Park. I left her in a parking lot behind some donut shop. I killed Bethany, my old girlfriend, with a nail gun, and some man uh some old faggot with a dog last week. I killed another girl with a chainsaw, I had to, she almost got away and uh someone else there I can't remember maybe a model, but she's dead too. And Harve Dent. I killed Havey Dent with an axe in the face, his body is dissolving in a bathtub in Hell's Kitchen. I don't want to leave anything out here. I guess I've killed maybe 20 people, maybe 40. I have tapes of a lot of it, uh some of the girls have seen the tapes. I even, um... I ate some of their brains, and I tried to cook a little. Tonight I, uh, I just had to kill a LOT of people. And I'm not sure I'm gonna get away with it this time. I guess I'll uh, I mean, ah, I guess I'm a pretty uh, I mean I guess I'm a pretty sick guy. So, if you get back tomorrow, I may show up at Harry's Bar, so you know, keep your eyes open.

"Presumably, Batman designed Robin's costume as well"
Isn't Robin's costume supposed to be his old circus costume? In any event, I agree that its nonsensical to have a preteen running around fighting crime with you, but there was a wave of that in 50s comics and it gave us Bucky aka the new Captain America.
I'm running with the side that says Robin doesn't work well on film. Sure, he's a staple of the Batman mythos, but to be honest he kind of sucks when you think about it. The only thing cool about the original Robin is that he's now his own badass superhero Nightwing. Name one sidekick that works for mature audiences. The very word conjures up images of camp

Look at the toon series with Conroy voice. That worked well enough. Just have to intro Robin in a serious adult way with no hip shit. <p> Justin Long is my choice for every role Shia LaBlah has every taken.

Robin can play a great and interesting part in this series if the filmmakers play to the tragedy of Dick Grayson's life and how much it touches the heart of Bruce Wayne. Personally, I don't see them introducing Robin into this series until a 4th or 5th film. And then, it would be an introduction of just Dick Grayson first.
<p>
The key ingredient would be Dick's age. You don't want to make him older. That was already done in the Burton/Schumacher series and even the '60s TV show. I think you make him a young kid who Bruce really feels a kinship to and wants to "protect" from the world and this hardship. But just like Bruce, Dick's revenge grows and seethes to the point he wants to take the law into his own hands.
<p>
And so, in a sequel to the film he's introduced in, Dick's going around in a costume modified from his circus togs trying to fight crime, perhaps inspired by the Batman, who he doesn't know is Bruce at this point. While he can hold his own to a degree, it's far too dangerous for a kid to be out there. Bruce tries to steer him in other directions, choices he didn't make in his own life, but Dick is defiant. Discovers Batman and the rest is history.
<p>
While Robin makes some appearances - against Bruce's will - he's mainly the partner in the lab, helping out, studying. When Dick is a teen, he goes out into the field, again against Bruce's better judgment, and something happens to hurt him. Batman essentially "fires" him, setting up that animosity that existed in the comics between Bruce and Dick for so long. This will eventually push him into college and his assuming the Nightwing persona.
<p>
I don't see Nolan going past 3 films in this series, but I also don't see WB discontinuing it once he leaves. So I think Robin could work in the next cycle of films, but should be introduced gradually, not just in one film. His story should stretch 3 or 4 films and as a secondary story to Bruce's. And the relationship between Bruce and Dick could be realistically defined as Bruce looking to protect this kid and them grudgingly becoming friends as Bruce ironically finds this is the only person he can truly relate to in the world. They become family without having all those cringe-worthy "family" moments people try to shoehorn into the story.
<p>
I'm in the camp that believes Robin - and especially Dick Grayson - is an essential part of the Batman mythos. I also understand the inherent cheesiness that can come from a kid fighting crime beside a fractured man dressed as a bat, donned like a Merry Man in the brightest colors he could possibly find. It's a minefield, but if handled with respect to the themes of what Dick represents in Bruce's life - and with muting the colors and leaning on the evolution of the Robin costume the comics have taken - it could be done, done well and fit within the Begins/TDK universe.

They would be walking a very thin tightrope there that could easily fall into a vat of cheese...but I think your way is logical. I just can't see that corny costume in that universe, muted colors or not.

I think they need to start with that cheesy circus costume, just like they did in Batman Forever, and grow it into one that looks more like Tim Drake's current outfit, even phasing out the green like they have. A really rich maroon that plays even darker on screen could work. Besides, if Nolan could get the Joker's purple suit to work on film, I think they could do wonders with the Robin duds.

Yeah, I was thinking 11 or 12. Just old enough to have the wherewithal to live in the world around him but young enough that he still needs supervision, still needs guidance. Maybe 13. That gives him about 4 years under Bruce's wing, as it were.

If they keep him in the lab like you said and don't overexpose him...i.e. a Robin-dedicated movie that takes away from Bats, maybe it could work. I appreciate your insights, you seem to know a lot more than I do about the background. Happy 4th.

was the Tim Drake Robin in the early 2000's animated series. The episode in which he falls in love with one of Clayface's creations genuinely moved me. But honestly, there is no way to bring him into the Nolanverse. Besides, in BB Barbara Gordon, Dick's peer, was still in a high-chair. Just forget it.

It's just too goofy. I actually don't like the idea of Batgirl, the bathound, nightwing in the Nolan universe. The one man protecting the whole city idea is undermined when there's 4 other people dressed in costumes are fighting also. I just don't like it. I do like the idea of Robin having his own movie tho...that could be good...or even when/if Nolan finishes up the trilogy, and all the all the actors aren't forced to be in any new ones...maybe then they can start a new set with a different tone where Robin might work.

I liked Batman Begins. I was impressed with it as a movie let alone a Batman film. My only slight issue with it is that they rubbed out Joe Cool. I've always preferred the idea that Batman still hasn't been able to find the murderer of his parents (which I know has changed so many times in the comics). However, that they used Cool's death in the movie to destroy Bruce's impetus in life and set him on his path was an intriguing choice. Other than that, I really can't think of any choice in Begins I don't agree with.

Could work, but wouldn't work, nor could they spring logically from, the "Nolanverse." I would actually rather see them pick an entirely new Batman for those movies. Actually, scratch that, just make really high quality animated movies. In a Bruce Timm style. <br><br>
Throwing a bone to the NAMBLA crowd, I'd agree that a Robin or Teen Titans movie could work, but it couldn't work in a "realistic" Nolan-y type of universe (in quotes because Nolan's Batman, though more realistic, is still sci-fi/fantasy - for example, in a real world context, that train would have ripped Bats arm right out of its socket, not speedily lift him out of danger.) It would be ridiculous. It would have to be more kidded up, PG or PG-13 tops. The way Nolan's Batman is going, it probably should be R. This new Batman is certainly not for kids. And Robin is all about the kid audience (and, of course, the NAMBLA audience). I'd certainly welcome an R (or in the ultimate sense, hard-R) Batman. But for Robin Meets Sugardaddy: The Movie, or Teen Titans: Barely Legal Lemmings movie? You'd have to make it for the kids and younger teens (the NAMBLA crown won't mind, in trenchcoats, gurgling in ecstasy, they may actually welcome the tweening).

Joe Cool is Snoopy's alter ego in the Peanuts comic strip. LOL. Anyway I have to agree with the most sensible approach to this. Robin is important to the Batman mythos but please leave him out of this series. Simply not neccesary. By the way I read a review for TDK and the reviewer compared Ledger's performance to that of Anthony Hopkins in Silence of the Lambs and Alex in A Clockwork Orange. I can not freaking wait for this movie.

Not that ANY of this gay banter really matters...Robin seems to be uber unrealistic in Nolan's Bat-verse.<br><br>Also, Robin was a marketing ploy in the comics...plain and simple...that's not to say they haven't done great things with the character...but come on, fanboys...the BEST story ever dealing with Robin was when he freaking died!<br><br>Robin detracts from Batman's character...especially at the juncture we're dealing with in Nolan's movies...he's JUST become Batman. NO ROBIN! The only time it was done, he was hipped up and given some edge and I thought that BATMAN FOREVER was actually quite terrible.

There's no way in hell he said that about Robin. He knows he's lucky to have fallen into this franchise. Plus, seeing what Nolan did with the 1st movie, and what he's done with the second, with a new unthought of Joker, Dent, etc. You gotta believe if there is a Robin in the third one, that it will be well done, not rushed out and poorly done like the last Robin was.

...than you're probably of the same breed that thought that Mr. Freeze wasn't that bad the first time you saw the movie. You're probably also the type of person that wants comics translated to screen panel for panel. Lame. Take a class.

Haha! Totally. Thats great whoever started that idea. Totally would have to have a gratuitous Bale on Page fuck scene too. The villains could be both Humbert Humbert and Quilty! "Always trust a vigilante for a fancy prose style." could be one of the signiature lines. OR "Do I believe in God? Oh my dear, I think a better question to ask is, does God believe in me?" Batman would totally say that kind of shit, maybe.

You know... the kid who talks to Batman as he's breaking into the Scarecrow's apartment and who's later being protected by Rachel and Bats when the Fear Toxin floods the Narrows area of Gotham.<p>He's got a crummy homelife (his dad's screaming at his mom in the background) at the beginning, loses his parents during the Arkham Asylum breakout and is wearing a red t-shirt over a green sweatshirt through the whole movie.<p>Seems like a Robin set-up to ME!

Because he liked Matrix Revolutions and Reloaded. I'm taking a stab here, but this dude wreaks of one of those those "love it all" fanboys that loved the Star Wars prequels when they came out, but once all the backlash emerged started retreating to "they were okay"....and now bashes em with the rest of the civilized world. Sorry about your face!<br><br>Oh, and 300 wasn't panel for panel and while Sin City was close, and probably why I didn't love it.<br><br>I'm talking about the ilk that roam talkbacks with language like "Just FILM JLA: City of Gods word for word and panel for panel." they're out there.....

You like that the entire justification for Anakin Skywalker turning to the darkside was a creepy voice over saying "you know, if I'M dead you cannot save your wife"....She's lost the will to live. REALLY!?!? What about her newborns she named in a second!?! <br><br>That movie was fucking clown shoes<br><br>Lucas should have let some one else have the helm and gotten ALOT of help with the screenplay! Like he DID with the first trilogy. <br><br>Add to that the TERRIBLE acting and look of Hayden in episode 3...there was NO PUNCH...a 10 minute duel does not make for character conflict...it DOES if we believe in the duel. <br><br>Also, here's a tip on how to break a 26 year old geek's heart...say in an interview that you FORGOT that Obi Wan needed to some how get Anakin's lightsaber and that you needed to pick the shot up....<br><br>FUCK THAT! I'd been waiting 20 fucking years to find out how Obi Wan got Darth Vader's old lightsaber. And WHERE was the tender moment in which Anakin tells him to give it to his son. HELL, he didn't even KNOW he HAD a son.<br><br>Lucas made sure to fix that by amending the dialogue in Empire between the empereor and Vader. <br><br>Seriously, if you REALLY like Episode 3 for anything other than nostalgia fanboy foolishness...you DONT understand what a good movie is.

Did George _really_ say he originally forgot to film that scene? Damn. I was so disappointed that the Obi-Wan and Anakin sabers from A New Hope weren't in episodes 1 & 2. Even the sabers used in ep3 didn't look quite right.

was the biggest disappointment i've ever had leaving the theatre. I liked reloaded mostly for the possibilities it created for the third one and they fucking blew it. Indy 4 a close second in disappointment. Playhouse, I agree that it would have been cool to let Joe Cool live and have Batman always be chasing that dream of tracking him down. I also had trouble with Batman's voice (small gripe for a great movie, though)

(1) Cast Cam Gigandet, the villain dude from NEVER BACK DOWN. He can, like, REALLY fight.<P>
(2) Have him basically play the dude Scott Caan played in BOILER ROOM - some fucking nutjob stockbroker who kicks ass for fun.<P>
(3) He clashes with Bats. Bats then sees that the kid is basically him minus his guidance and decent upbringing, decides to retrain him and raise him right. It doesn't go that smoothly.<P>
(4) Hilarity - and that grim realism Bale and Nolan do SOOOOOOOOO well - ensues.<P>
(5) In the end, Robin does it right and earns Bats' respect, and we're all better people in the end.<P>
Nah, you're all right. This shit is NEVER gonna work. But then, Bale's Batman is as much fucking Batman as Daniel Craig's Bond is the real Bond. Fucking clown shoes.

In order for Robin's inclusion to be any good, the movie would have to be a big-screen version of A Death in the Family, and I think only Heath Ledger could have pulled it off. On the other hand, I ACTUALLY think Bat-Mite could be introduced without it being completely silly - not as an actual character or a vital plot point, but as a quick Scarecrow-induced hallucination. A seriously-done Bat-Mite could be FREAKIN' scary on the big screen, if you ask me.

As I mentioned before..bring in Talia..(Ras al goul's) daughter.
Daughter of the demon..and do the falling for the dark knight like in the books..The RAS show's up older and scarred from the train explosion...and it would be perfect to go up against Harvey and the mob..and I agree bring in Tony zucco and head mobster rupert thorn..and with all that, then would come the daughter of the demon and RAS...it would round out the trilogy full circle..even better if they brought in Talia's and Bruce's love child..grandson to Ras...but thats just me..any takers for that theory???

nothing spells intimidating or badass like a child sized helper in bright colors that don't blend with darkness and who constantly causes dilemmas by fucking up. Oh, don't forget that his name is ROBIN. Yeah, really makes Bat frightening and "dark".

1) I know youse guys brought up the idea as a joke, but the thought of a big-screen adaptation of The Dark Knight Returns/The Dark Knight Strikes Again in the style of Sin City/The Spirit, starring people like Clint Eastwood and Ellen Page (if not actually THOSE two actors) would get me MUCH MORE EXCITED about comic book movies than Sam Jackson as Nick Fury does. 2) I could also see a reboot of the Batman franchise that STARTS with Batman: Year Three, which is a really good series of comics. 3) What if you went with a really dark version of Robin, using Jason Todd instead of Dick Grayson? Like, how come Bruce Wayne has to be the crazier one of the two? Imagine, while everybody in Gotham City THINKS Batman is a psychopath, it turns out that his ward actually IS a psychopath, and a homicidal one at that. It wouldn't work within Nolan's continuity, but it THEORETICALLY could be done. Many many many years from now, when we watch movies using devices like the one Ralph Fiennes is addicted to in Strange Days.

...Than it is that Robin is his son. Batman's not gay, and a kid he brings into his home is his son, not some weird lover. Thanks to post-modernist takes on Batman in the 60s, and Schumachers overtly gay Batman movies, we get these kids who think that's all there is to it thinking Batman and Robin are lovers, and that the Joker killed off Robin.<p>Listen, if you're gonna invoke the continuity of the comics to compare to these movies, you're gonna have to do WAY better than the Jason Todd run on Batman as proof of Robin sucking...30 years of his character NOT sucking balances out that year and a half, I'd think...Kids, it's not gonna work for this Batman, unless it can be written well. And all the problems in Begins were writing problems that REEKED of Goyer. Who has passed his prime, and the Nolans took this one over. I'm keeping spoiler free for this one, and I'll give you my opines on it once I've seen it in IMAX.<p>As an aside, I love the Batman character and would see this movie if it were called 'Batman Cornholes a Dog on Broadway...WITH SINGING!'.<p>Seriously.

Thanks for thinking I'm a teenager, but, nah, I'm just an aging GenXer. Ask your mom about the vintage. That is, of my cum? As it dribbles down her chin? Just remember, she paid me to do it, so, if you're mad at anyone it should be her. Your whore of a mother, that is. The wrinkled old cow. Good tipper though, surely.

Just start a movie (movie 4 or 5) with Robin. No explanation how he got there, but when Batman goes out, sometimes this kid shows up and sometimes Bats gives him gadgets and stuff, but mostly he's a mystery kid who can help out. Bruce lets him help, lets his guard down, allows Robin to be a soldier for him. Then out of nowhere, in what seemed like another villain's movie, Joker shows up to KILL robin Jason Todd style.

Teen Titans can open up an avenue for a younger audience, and introduce Robin.
There are so many untold, stand-alone stories for Batman. Why should these series be required to include Robin? Audiences have already been convinced that a city so corrupt, could create a character like Batman. Now, they seem to be open to going along w/Joker and Two-Face. Robin, on the other hand is asking audiences to suspend their beliefs in a post-Michael Jackson scandal world. From what I can tell, The Dark Knight shows a Gotham frustrated with Batman and the fallout from his methods. Introducing Robin will force people to further suspend their beliefs and accept that a somewhat disturbed crime-fighter, would take in a young boy and subject him to a chaotic, and dangerous life.
If Nolan, and Bale are against having Robin, we should not try and force them. Raimi gave in to pressures to feature Venom when he was uninterested, and we saw how that turned out.

The whole idea is just so gay... I hate using that word so I'm trying to think of another description but I'm failing here. Batman is more of a loner, he works alone, and giving him a sidekick goes against the image. The only time I think Robin was done in an okay acceptable manner is when Frank Miller turned him into a girl... still it wasn't great, but it made a good foil against the older weary Batman.

Robin would only work if he were Bruce Wayne's son. Bruce has engaged in a lot of affairs I'm assuming. Maybe in the past had a brief affair with a women. Now she dies without telling Robin who his real dad is, and Robin finds some old papers that clues him in that Bruce Wayne is his real father. You would have decent and believable conflict without the homoerotic overtones. And since putting a child in danger would hurt Batman's image, Bruce instead could set his son up as an intelligence gatherer who works the computers and gathers data combing the internet and papers for clues. Still not great, but... as a long time collector of Batman comics (since someone, Sans Souci? intimated that most people here don't read the comics) I have always...***always*** disliked Robin.

Yes, in this world, sidekicks are people like Rachael Dawes and Gordon, who can take some risk, but can't go out on a rooftop for justice. If anyone can step out into the night in a costume and take up the fight, it ceases to be the Gotham Nolan has created.
If everything I'm hearing about this Batman is true, Mr. Freeze is indeed needed. This Bruce Wayne is in danger of watching his heart destroy his soul. Dr. Fries is a man who's soul destryed his heart long ago. After we see "escalation" reach a conflagration, it'll be time for a nuclear winter to fall over Gotham.
In the meantime, Robin is out. In the books, Robin brings heart to Batman's cause. As he's played by Bale, Batman is all heart. He can't bear to see his father's dream wasted, his parents memory or legacy tarnished, the people he loves hurt, or his old wounds opened.
To put that Batman against a man with a half-living reminder of everything that's ever hurt him, and who has learned to live with that...
Robin is unnecessary. Freeze is very necessary.
What about Jonathan Price?

Great insight there. But Mr. Freeze isn't going to appear in the Nolanverse.
<P>1. He's too unjustifiably gimicky. He shoots ice.
<p>2. He's one of those many characters who was given a name based on his destiny. A guy named "Victor Freize" turns himself into a popsicle? C'mon, man. That's unbelievable.
<p>3. He doesn't want to steal but has to in order to keep his suit functioning. Why not just move to northern Alaska, Freize?
<p>4. Over and over again, the man claims he has no emotions. But he does or he would never get angry... or lonely.
<p>5. Do you really want to see Batman and Robin again? Because as bad as Arnold and Schumaker were, that wasn't too far from the best that could've been done with such a gimicky character.

I'm pretty sure at the end of Revolutions, when the Oracle and the Architect are talking about the current state of affairs, the Oracle affirmed that those who wanted to the leave the Matrix should be able to. The Architect agreed. This was a different policy than the one adhered to by the Macines in the previous generations of the Matrix, which Neo fought for.

that building a Batman movie franchise whose tone precludes the inclusion of one of the defining characters of the entire mythos is obtuse. That's my problem with Batman Begins and potentially The Dark Knight: too retardedly serious. Which makes the whole "why so serious?" ad campaign ironic for me.

so many stories yet to be told involving only Batman? Let the series grow a little. Even if Bale and Nolan eventually step down, a successful franchise can make room for Robin one day. But its too soon. Don't rush it. Again, if Nolan isn't interested, why try and force his hand. Raimi gave in to demands on Venom, and failed. A lack of interest (Bale & Nolan) in the character of Robin is reason enough NOT to feature him.

Why rush Robin? Venom was force fed to Raimi-who never liked the character nor wanted him in the movie-and that was just a waste for the fans of Venom. Batman is gonna blow the roof of this summer with TDK. Why pull a Venom? Wait. Or better, some one suggested to have Robin star in his own movie. Ok, that would work too, but not yet. Give it time and see what happens. Right now the fact that Bats has the Two-Face, Scarecrow AND the Joker to deal IS making the anticipation CLOVERFIELD high! We all new this Joker was going to be something different and great. And to follow that up by adding Robin would actually drive it down to BATMAN AND ROBIN level. And NO ONE wants a repeat of that gay masterpiece. Hell, wasn't there rumor that the Joker lives in this one, and IF so, then a Robin would certainly be wasted.

Why rush Robin? Venom was force fed to Raimi-who never liked the character nor wanted him in the movie-and that was just a waste for the fans of Venom. Batman is gonna blow the roof of this summer with TDK. Why pull a Venom? Wait. Or better, some one suggested to have Robin star in his own movie. Ok, that would work too, but not yet. Give it time and see what happens. Right now the fact that Bats has the Two-Face, Scarecrow AND the Joker to deal IS making the anticipation CLOVERFIELD high! We all new this Joker was going to be something different and great. And to follow that up by adding Robin would actually drive it down to BATMAN AND ROBIN level. And NO ONE wants a repeat of that gay masterpiece. Hell, wasn't there rumor that the Joker lives in this one, and IF so, then a Robin would certainly be wasted.

They put Robin in one of Nolan's movies and they will never get my money. Instead I will bitch and moan to anyone who will listen. It is ridiculous to have a child running around with a violent dark avenger like Batman. Because I believe this I will never pick up an issue of the great Frank Miller's Allstar Batman and Robin. The only time I can forgive the presence of a robin character is in Dark Knight Returns, because it seems to work okay for me in that masterpiece.

you're reference to batman forever and batman begins, even the camp 60's batman as a reason NOt to bring in Robin just doesn't fly. <p> if everyone was like you and thinking THAT was the only was to bring in robin, then you are as visionless as Bale is with his comments. <p> don't bullshit me about Robin doesn't work in this universe. What UTTER shit. Seriously, you and all the robin haters here are mentally challenged. <p> Robin CAN be brought into this universe. The same way the Joker has been brought into this universe, and the same way Two face has been brought into this universe. Robin too CAN and SHOULD be brought into this universe. He doesn't have to be a little pansy in red and green tights. The same way Batman doesn't have to be in a flapping dark purple cowl with white eye brows. <p> Fuck 'batman & Robin' and even 'Batman forever' as refernce points - This is an all new batman, and I for one sure as hell would rather see how Robin is brought into the mix. <p> harvey dent gets his face melted off in this film. I'm pretty sure they'd give any story arch involving the introducing of Robin it's just due. <p> that said, I'm all for dropping his name in favour of 'nightwing'

Comic Book Artist Turner Dies
5 July 2008 7:17 AM, PDT
Comic book artist Michael Turner has lost his battle with cancer at the age of 37.
He died from complications related to bone cancer at a hospital in Santa Monica, California on 27 June.
Turner drew covers for popular comic book titles including Superman/Batman, The Flash, Civil War and Justice League.
He also created online comics for the hit U.S. TV series Heroes, and published a number of his own titles, such as Fathom, via his company Aspen Mlt.
Paying tribute to Turner, Andrew Farago, the curator of San Francisco's Cartoon Art Museum, says, "He was definitely one of the most popular and influential comic book artists working right now.
"He was very, very much in demand as a cover artist on high-profile projects."

People as old as myself don't do comebacks.<p>But, yes, he is dressed as a demon. Those aren't ears and they definetely don't resemble ears. While I will conceed that he started out in the comics as a man dressed as a bat, that quickly evolved into a demon of the night costume. Not even a fear-enducing gas could cause anybody to think of him as resembling anything other than a monster. The one and only bat-like feature his costume has retained from his early days is his cape; that's it. What were formerly ears have since become horns. As for the signal on his chest, forget the fact that it's called a batsignal for a second. Does the head on that really look like a bat's? To make a Batman costume at its bost basic, you just put on a Zorro costume minus the hat, put on some black horns, and then wrap a cut up Dracula cape around you, minus the collar. And after that you throw in a cross between a construction worker's belt and cop's utility belt, and there you go; you're the Dark Knight.

That might be an interesting idea, and perhaps they do have a lovechild, as suggested. That lovechild, under the guiding hand of the daughter of Rhas might could grow up to be Robin, like the final shot of Batman 3, like some wierd homagenous reference to the end of 2001 or something...

Actually, Ra's al Ghul is known as "The Demon" or "The Demon's Head." I have to agree with Albertson's evaluation of functional retardation on jdl82's part. And REDD, no, of course you didn't break "some unwritten rule." I pretty clearly stated you'd fit right in, the implication being that your behavior is consistent with the people who officially post "news" on AICN. It was half a joke, to be sure, but I never indicated you'd made a move out of step with any "rule." Reading is fundamental.

Turner was a crappy artist in the post-Image scratchy angular style. Popular, sure, but c'mon. All his people looked the same. Maybe not as bad as Liefeld or Tony Daniel, but bad. And he was an awful writer.

What was so humorous about Jason Todd being beaten to death with a crowbar? That's just one example. And Batman, IN TOTO, is fantasy. So your use of words like "always" and "fantasy" need some examination.

in your head. You just heard that? Who told you that? Or did you read it? And where did you read it? Are you confused? Do you know how to use Google? Or IMDB? Or that lump of viscous putty between your ears? C'mon, man. If that's your suggestion for Robin, own it. Stop owning yourself.

I've had enough of this shit. Anyone who actually wants Robin wants the death of this franchise. It's as simple as that. Fuck Robin and The Penguin and any other characters Nolan doesn't care for. What's the point of forcing him to do it? A: He'll change the character till they're unrecognizable and B: He'll kill him off so that he won't have to deal with him again and either way it'll suck because he doesn't care about the character. So who wins from that situation exactly? Sounds like a lose/lose situation to me.

to the Bat-universe and that Robin can't possibly exsist in it...uh, Bale isn't walking around in these movies like Charles Bronson in DEATH WISH is he? He's wearing a halloween costume that looks like a freakin' bat! - granted, a very hi-tech one - but it still borders on the absurd. That's because this is BATMAN, a character that no matter how hard Nolan, Bale, or any fanboy wants to take seriously, comes from a comic book! If Nolan & Bale wanted to do a totally dark, grim & gritty vigilante, why didn't they just remake DEATH WISH? They actually would've been perfect for it. But they didn't. Whether they like it or not, they're playing around in a comic book universe w/costumed vigilantes & villains...and there is only so far realism can take you in it. The bottom line is - the into of Robin doesn't have to be campy or distracting...just look at the comics from the last 20 years to see the proof. Besides, what the hell are they gonna do to avoide the "three-quel curse" anyway?

to the Bat-universe and that Robin can't possibly exsist in it...uh, Bale isn't walking around in these movies like Charles Bronson in DEATH WISH is he? He's wearing a halloween costume that looks like a freakin' bat! - granted, a very hi-tech one - but it still borders on the absurd. That's because this is BATMAN, a character that no matter how hard Nolan, Bale, or any fanboy wants to take seriously, comes from a comic book! If Nolan & Bale wanted to do a totally dark, grim & gritty vigilante, why didn't they just remake DEATH WISH? They actually would've been perfect for it. But they didn't. Whether they like it or not, they're playing around in a comic book universe w/costumed vigilantes & villains...and there is only so far realism can take you in it. The bottom line is - the into of Robin doesn't have to be campy or distracting...just look at the comics from the last 20 years to see the proof. Besides, what the hell are they gonna do to avoid the "three-quel curse" anyway?

...I'll give you a moment to look that up.
"Nolan has never said that he's putting Robin in the movies"... No shit. And that has to do with what exactly?
Seeing your lack of coherent thought as indicated in your other pointless, troll like responses to other TB'ers speaks volumes. Truly simplistic. My 2 sentence response pointing out your simplistic thinking throws you for a loop?? I don't think I'll be spelling it out for you pal. I've been posting here too long not to avoid a wearisome run around with a chump. Run along.

Robin has always been an unnecessary sidekick for Batman. Nolan would have to really work the story over hard to come up with a strong enough reason to include him. Wait for several more Batmans before even considering it.

should be played by the beadle guy from sweeney todd. if you havent seen that movie, he's also the henchman rat guy in harry potter, wormtail i think? seriously, google that guy. he wouldnt need makeup. penguin doesnt need to be a deformed freak, just an ugly dumpy sumbitch who likes guns and umbrellas.
robin has no place in this series. seriously. just like superman doesnt need krypto the wonder pooch in his next movie... its just a bad idea.

creating a cinematic universe where there is no room for Batman's more colorful adversaries and allies is extremely myopic. It's not a problem of Nolan not catering to my specific tastes when it comes to Batman, it is his choice of aesthetic. Forcing Batman to be told in terms of realism and thus dumbing him down, erasing some of his more complicated responsibilities and casting a restraining net of dourness and earnestness takes all the fun out of it. As for Robin being "always unnecessary," I think hundreds of writers and artists would strongly, laughingly, mockingly disagree with you, Teddy. You didn't even give any support to why you think he's unnecessary. I think, to a master strategist, having a fast-moving, acrobatic target dressed in bright colors act as a distraction would just make basic sense. Thematically, Robin's lighter persona to Batman's dark, brooding persona is a nice, rich counterpoint. It's called a "foil." And to odo19, I'd propose that I love Batman more than you do. It's as simple as that. I think canonical integrity is way more important than this franchise, integrity that will survive Nolan's films. It is also important to note that Bale will be back to make as many sequels as he's wanted for. It's all about the Benjamins and Bale just isn't that big of a star.

The only way I could see it done, and work worth a damn, is to take the same tone as Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns. I don't mean make Robin a girl, although that could work too. I mean, make Robin this really young kid who has no one else in the world. Robin doesn't really kick ass along side Batman, he instead sort of backs him up. He waits in the Batmobile, or helps Batman with the prep work. He is this sad kid who is scared of the world, but learns courage and justice from watching Batman. Meanwhile, Batman allows Robin to tag along, but tries his best to keep him out of danger. Robin will of course find his way into danger and need to be saved. But, the key is NOT making Robin this teenaged smart-ass idiot who tries to stand next to Batman and pretend he is his equal. That has always been the problem with Robin, when he isn't handled right. He ends up detracting from Batman, and eventually makes both characters look ridiculous.

Tell me how Robin could work? What your suggesting is Robin in name only. Using the prior movies are a totally valid point because that's when the prior series went to hell. I am not a Robin hater I love the character but I'm not so blinded by fan boy obsession that I can't be objective and realize that a teen sidekick does not work in this series, and that's what Robin is and to skip Robin and go straight to Nightwing is even more stupid. The whole point of Nightwing was Dick Grayson becoming his own man out of the shadow of the Bat. To make Nighwing the "sidekick" is an insult to that character and would be no different than that horrid Superman script that had Krypton not blowing up and Lex Luthor being from Krypton. Robin belongs with Poison Ivy, Mr. Freeze, and the like important characters in the Batman universe who deserve their place in Batman lore but have no place in this movie series. That's not being visionless that's just recognizing what would be better for the vision that Nolan is trying to establish. Something you obviously can't do with your rose colored or excuse me bright red and yellow colored glasses, and once again using Batman Forever and Batman and Robin as reference points are totally valid just for the simple fact of they are lessons on what not to do in a Batman movie and yes that includes bringing in a kid sidekick. You want Robin plenty of Batman cartoons and comics for that so go ahead watch and read and get your fill of a teen boy in tights.

Do you see the title of my post which said..."Using Jeff Albertson logic..." an THEN the comment about Nolan. It clearly illustates that applying YOUR logic to a situation would result in YOUR idiot conclusion. CHRIST YOU ARE A DOLT BEYOND BELIEF! What is so hard to understand about about a simple sentence. The fact that you like to type how you 'pwn' everybody shows me you have the brain of a 15 yr old. Bring it on twat.