DefenceWinsChampionships

tim1_2 wrote:In a vacuum, trading Hoffman for the 10th overall isn't a terrible deal. †In a vacuum, trading Karlsson because you think he's peaked and there are injury concerns and his contract has to be 8 years, isn't a terrible idea. †It's hard to justify these things, though, when you think about how we were in the Conference Final a year ago. †Why would the team need to be rebooted? †I know we had a Dung year (in no small part due to all the distractions Karlsson was facing), but why rip things apart? †Tampa didn't do this when they missed the playoffs a couple years ago....

In my opinion, if they wanted to shake things up a bit while maintaining a very competitive team, you ditch Smith, Burrows, and Harpur opening spots for a couple young guns, retain Karlsson and Hoff, trade Ceci, and sign or trade for a legit top-4 defenceman. †That is obviously in an ideal world, and far from what we're apparently about to do. †

I think itís fairly obvious that the one thing that has changed in a year is Melnyk not wanting/being able to spend.It was clear what we needed going into the season. A top 6 LW and a top 4 D. None of those things were addressed because of money. There is no way we can address these things with Melnyk unable to meet payroll. Problem is he likely wonít be able to 3 years from now either.

And we are stuck in a stupid situation. We canít Tank because our 1st is gone and we canít win because Melnyk canít pay whatís needed. Itís pretty clear that our only option is to have a change in ownership but I have big doubts that will happen.

If we are to go the full rebuild mode is it worth it to stay somewhat competitive? Iíd love to resign duchene and stone but do they want to stay long term?

Iím not advocating a fire sale but maybe we have better think about shedding our most valuable assets in the next two years Iím order to draft. Will stone and duchene still be super competitive 4-5 years from now? Stone already has a history of concussion and duchene will be nearing his mid 30ís.

Sucks but we may need a very hard reset if we lose kalrsson. Like a very VERY hard reset. Like trade anyone thatís over 25 over the next 2 years.

I'd argue that trading Karlsson and Ryan is your hard reset. A few 1st rd picks, high-end prospects, and/or young players with potential while shedding salary. What more can this team really do? Burrows and Pyatt are gone after next season, Smith is on the block, Gaborik will disappear via IR or retirement, Hoffman trade for a young d-man. Agreed it sucks that we won't have our 1st rd pick next year but we have 2 maybe 3 this year, and trading Karl will get us back into the 1st rd next season. The trick is not to let Stone or Duchene walk for nothing. No other team in the league is dependent on one player like Ottawa is on Karl. Losing one elite player to improve all other areas of the team isn't the worst idea out there. I think most fans just wish they could surround Karl with talent versus creating talent by trading Karl.

DefenceWinsChampionships

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:I'm okay with trading Hoffman if we get a top two dman or forward with top six potential back. He's a one dimensional player whose one dimension can probably be replace by a player at less than half his cost

That's the paradox though, guys who have the skillset Hoffman have start at 5 million dollars. †You don't snipe 29, 26, 27 and 22 goals and not get 5+ million. †I'd go through 20+ goal scorers and their salaries in the NHL, but it's time consuming, but I guarantee most of them are at 5 million or will be on their next contract.

He doesn't kill penalties, he's awful defensively, and he's the big shot on one of the worst powerplays in the league. He's fast and has a great shot. Nobody is denying that. And he'll put up 35+ goals playing next to McDavid. But in Ottawa he'll never play next to McDavid and probably won't surpass 30 goals here, even if he's playing with Duchene. The Duchene-Hoffman combo can certainly score goals but they were one of the worst lines in the league defensively (source: The Athletic).

If trading Hoffman yields a top four d-man/high-end prospect and a 1st rd pick you do it. Ottawa has the winger depth in their prospect pool to replace him whether it be Formenton, Batherson, Brown, White, Chlapik, Gagne (maybe?), #4 pick, etc. I am not to worried about losing Hoffman if we get something worth while in return.

What I don't like about this is the fact that Calgary and St Louis don't have 1st rd picks. Calgary has some good d-men, St Louis has Fabbri but I'd be against taking him. Philly has 2 1sts, NYI have two 1sts, and Edmonton has the need for him. NYI could assemble a pretty dangerous line with Eberle, Tavares and Hoffman. Would anyone complain if we got a 1st and Ryan Pulock from the Isles?

tim1_2

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:I think most fans just wish they could surround Karl with talent versus creating talent by trading Karl. †

Yeah, exactly. We proved that the team could be Cup-competitive with him, Stone, Hoff, etc....Duchene is an upgrade to Turris, so let's shed a bit of fat and get right back in there. Instead, it's heading the opposite direction. I can't imagine Duchene or Stone wanting to hang around long-term if Karlsson is dealt for a whole ton of futures....didn't Duchene go through this already in Colorado? I think the #1 thing Stone cares about is winning. After coming so close a year ago, does he want to commit long term to a rebuild?

DefenceWinsChampionships

I'm not certain that trading Karl and Ryan really sets us back that far. Ryan's value can certainly be replaced. Trading him is a moot point. Trading Karlsson will definitely impact the offense but is shedding 20-25 points on your #1 d-man in exchange for two better defensive defenseman with offensive upside, a potential #1C, and a 1st rd pick that hard a pill to swallow?

Say if Karl and Ryan get traded for Glass, Miller, Theodore, Vegas 2019 1st and all things else were to remain the same (keep Hoffman, Ceci, Smith, etc). Is Ottawa better off with a potential #1C on an ELC, and two top-four d-men with RFA status, and a 1st next season?

All this keeping in mind that Karlsson had an awful season defensively, the PP was atrocious, offensively he struggled by his standards, he's signing more or less a max deal at 28 years old, he's coming off a major injury, and we're shedding a ton of cap space. I think in general people need to be realistic and temper their expectations a little bit.

Lagoon

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:I'm okay with trading Hoffman if we get a top two dman or forward with top six potential back. He's a one dimensional player whose one dimension can probably be replace by a player at less than half his cost

That's the paradox though, guys who have the skillset Hoffman have start at 5 million dollars. †You don't snipe 29, 26, 27 and 22 goals and not get 5+ million. †I'd go through 20+ goal scorers and their salaries in the NHL, but it's time consuming, but I guarantee most of them are at 5 million or will be on their next contract.

He doesn't kill penalties, he's awful defensively, and he's the big shot on one of the worst powerplays in the league. He's fast and has a great shot. Nobody is denying that. And he'll put up 35+ goals playing next to McDavid. But in Ottawa he'll never play next to McDavid and probably won't surpass 30 goals here, even if he's playing with Duchene. The Duchene-Hoffman combo can certainly score goals but they were one of the worst lines in the league defensively (source: The Athletic).

If trading Hoffman yields a top four d-man/high-end prospect and a 1st rd pick you do it. Ottawa has the winger depth in their prospect pool to replace him whether it be Formenton, Batherson, Brown, White, Chlapik, Gagne (maybe?), #4 pick, etc. I am not to worried about losing Hoffman if we get something worth while in return.

What I don't like about this is the fact that Calgary and St Louis don't have 1st rd picks. Calgary has some good d-men, St Louis has Fabbri but I'd be against taking him. Philly has 2 1sts, NYI have two 1sts, and Edmonton has the need for him. NYI could assemble a pretty dangerous line with Eberle, Tavares and Hoffman. Would anyone complain if we got a 1st and Ryan Pulock from the Isles?

None of this really matters. Hoffmanís date may be sealed thanks to his girlfriend. It is just a season to forget all around.

22_4_ever

Hammond's wife just tweeted that this isn't really a surprise, with the meaning being that Hoff/girlfriend are bad people. †

Adios Mike Hoffman.

There's another wife that has some not so nice things to say....doubtful that she joins in, but man the truth is going to come out and there's not much of a defense.

I want to make sure I'm clear that there's still no evidence that Mike even knew. Yes he's come to his fiance's defense but right now it doesn't appear he knew. It will be interesting to see how he handles the situation when all the evidence is put in front of him.