Hmm, what's wrong with the LP-E6 battery? It was kept for the 5DIII. While I doubt I will buy a 7DII, if I were too, that would be a pain - given a current collection of 8 LP-E6s, used across 3 bodies.

Sigh! A new ergonomic design? We've heard that before and ended up with an overly small camera that was difficult to hold unless you were a child. New battery might be possible considering the 1DX. A higher voltage would also help the AF speed...which isn't lacking on the E6 battery but its not the fastest with such.

I hope that the new sensor is really innovative to be that size. I can't see much in the way of noise improvement with a sensor that size in APS-C format. I will be buying one if these specs are close, along with an improvement in noise reduction at higher ISO.

No mention of the AF system. If it's the same as the 5D III, then Canon will have a stellar APS-C offering! I'd consider getting one once the price comes down. I suspect this will be priced higher than the 6D.

Hmm, what's wrong with the LP-E6 battery? It was kept for the 5DIII. While I doubt I will buy a 7DII, if I were too, that would be a pain - given a current collection of 8 LP-E6s, used across 3 bodies.

++1 First thing I thought as well! Say it isn't so!! Nothing wrong with the LP-E6 Battery!! I carried the same batteries with the 5Dc and 30D/40D. Then I got the 60D with the newer battery. Now I finally have battery continuity again with the 5D3 + 60D and if I got a 7D2, I would carrying two different batteries again. Come On Canon!! Aaaargh! :(

24+ MP on a crop sensor might be scary.

Hate to have a bad attitude here but based on the pricing from Canon this year, they will probably initially ask for the moon for the thing. Obviously from the deals we are seeing for the 5D3 now, the initial retail price is very inflated.

I'm not going to get overly excited about CR1 specs from an "unknown source."

Reserve judgment on a sensor until real specs and results are known (probably won't know that until several months after the announcement). Consensus on this forum seems to be that noise and dynamic range improvements are more important than the number of pixels. Absent a major change/breakthrough in sensor design, I would be surprised if Canon ups the pixel count of the APS-C sensor above that of its full frame offerings.

New battery is a mild disappointment, but I assume Canon would make the change because they have to for design/engineering reasons.

Please, let them keep at least one CF card slot in a dual card system.

New ergonomic design is too vague to warrant comment at this point.

All in all, I'm more excited that we are finally getting rumors about a 7DII. At this point, the content of those rumors aren't as important as the fact that there are rumors circulating.

Seems legit. With what Northlight said about Canon going to APS-C on their coming 18 whatsit process, this sounds about right, and is also about what I have been anticipating for a while (sadly, it was not me who sent the rumor!!!).

Why is everyone assuming this means smaller? I find the design of a 1-series body to be much more ergonomic. :)

Yep the 1-Series ergonomics must be used to be fully appreciated. While I like most aspects of my 5D3, the 1D4 is streets ahead in the ergonomics department. If the 7DII can close the gap somewhat, then that can only be a good thing. Sports/action/BIF shooters who are lamenting the demise of APS-H will no doubt be looking keenly at this announcement. The new battery? I can only assume it's a higher horsepower item than the LP-E6 to drive the relevant performance benchmarks along. If Canon gets it right, the 7DII will be an absolute killer.

I'm not going to get overly excited about CR1 specs from an "unknown source."

Reserve judgment on a sensor until real specs and results are known (probably won't know that until several months after the announcement). Consensus on this forum seems to be that noise and dynamic range improvements are more important than the number of pixels. Absent a major change/breakthrough in sensor design, I would be surprised if Canon ups the pixel count of the APS-C sensor above that of its full frame offerings.

New battery is a mild disappointment, but I assume Canon would make the change because they have to for design/engineering reasons.

Please, let them keep at least one CF card slot in a dual card system.

New ergonomic design is too vague to warrant comment at this point.

All in all, I'm more excited that we are finally getting rumors about a 7DII. At this point, the content of those rumors aren't as important as the fact that there are rumors circulating.

If we look at what people are unhappy about with the 7D, generally it is to do with noise and image sharpness. I am not aware of anyone being unhappy with the pixel count. Canon may however need to up the pixel count to 24MP to match Nikon and Sony, rather than to address any real need - i.e. for marketing reasons. Assuming Canon continues to flow the same sensor down through its APS-C range, that would be a reason to move to 24MP. - In the market for APS-C (and especially entry-level) DSLRs a lot of customers are still comparing "mega-pickles".

Why is everyone assuming this means smaller? I find the design of a 1-series body to be much more ergonomic. :)

Yep the 1-Series ergonomics must be used to be fully appreciated. While I like most aspects of my 5D3, the 1D4 is streets ahead in the ergonomics department. If the 7DII can close the gap somewhat, then that can only be a good thing. Sports/action/BIF shooters who are lamenting the demise of APS-H will no doubt be looking keenly at this announcement. The new battery? I can only assume it's a higher horsepower item than the LP-E6 to drive the relevant performance benchmarks along. If Canon gets it right, the 7DII will be an absolute killer.

There is one thing that would get me to upgrade from my 7D to a potential 7D Mark II: A massively improved sensor.To be more specific: Better noise performance and dynamic range.

Even at very low ISO settings, skies can sometimes be slightly grainy and there's almost no information to pull out of the shadows. And what makes it even worse is that this is an area, where older Canon APS-C sensors were actually better at.

I don't care about the resolution of the sensor, as long as the image quality improvements are there. If they aren't, I'll happily keep my current 7D because overall, it's still an awesome camera.

Actually, I'm sometimes surprised at how well some of the high-ISO pictures turn out (I've had some great keepers which were shot at ISO5000), but of course any improvement here would be highly welcome as well.

Another thing I'd love to have would be an adjustable minimum shutter speed, but I think it's pretty safe to assume that it will be there (at least in the same way the 5D3 supports it).

Maybe the 7DII will have the rumored new revolutionary sensor with better high-ISO performance and more dynamic range than its predecessors and anything else on the market.

One can only hope. Although given the rumor that the 7D2 was delayed due to sensor design issues, and the fact that it seems to make sense to introduce new fab technology on higher yield APS-C sensors, it is at least a reasonable bet.

I doubt that the sensor will be any new tech at all, it states they are going to use Digic 5 if its true, so there you have it, duel processors for the 10fps and Noise reduction to be as good as the 5D3, That will be it, Im guessing a lesser version of the 5D3 AF also,

I believe all the new tech will be added to the High Mega Pixel camera when that finally gets announced.

As a 7D owner if I was to change anything it would be improved noise perf which largely seems to be a given in any version upgrade but more importantly improved AF. I've taken a lot of good images with my 7D, I had major issues at 200 and 400 ISO when I bought it and sent it back for repair. I'm not fully convinced it was fixed but it was better. The noise performance of the 7D when it was launched was considered to be very good and its what attracted me to it from Olympus however I have to say I was disappointed. At 100 ISO the Olympus E-3 was better, most of my shots tend to be at 100 so it was massive disappointment in that regard however once my 200 and 400 issues were sorted anything beyond 400 was fine and up to to 3200 was usable depending on that use.

My major grief though without a doubt was AF, as I say I've taken a lot of good shots but I'd have taken a lot more with a reliable AF. I've bought Focal Software to see if it improves it any, hopefully it will.

Mega pixels are not a concern, 18 is fine, I just hope that we dont get a 20 odd megapixle sensor without improved noise levels.

In terms of price I dont think this will be higher than the 6D, I think for what thats worth it will be circa £200 less. It might be silly but I just cant see Canon price a camera with a lower numerical code i.e. 7 v 6 at a higher price, it just doesnt sit right, if it was to be the case then the 6D should have been an 8D maybe. Sounds daft? Well maybe but its consistent I think with Canons current policy, the higher the No, the cheaper the camera i.e comparing latest models. One thing for sure Canon have a chance to put out a very good camera that could have a lot of Sports shooters after it.

As long as it has a mag-alloy chassis, it most probably will not have integrated GPS and WiFi. The mag-alloy chassis acts as a Faraday cage, preventing decent radio reception/transmission. Canon would probably compromise on the integrity of the chassis in order to get the wireless antennas into a position where reasonable radio performance is possible.

I have a 7D as one of my 2 Canon DSLRs. I love this camera, it's my 'go to' for 95% of my photography. I really like the crop / reach advantage that APS-C (1.6x crop) sensor cameras can bring, plus there are now some great EF-S lenses / 3rd party lenses for crop-sensored cameras. ;)

My thoughts on the CR0 specs above are:- 18MP is fine - but if 24.2MP are clean, why not?! (more cropability!)- 10.2 fps would be awesome. Even 8 fps works well for me.- it needs enough processing power... sure, give it 2x Digic 5+ CPUs- no need to change the design, my 7D fits me so well- please keep the same battery... pretty please?!- Feb 2013 announcement would be good so that towards Christmas 2013 (ie a year from now, which is our summer here in Australia) - prices will be lower. I would only plan to get a replacement / upgrade for my current 7D if / when it's on its last legs.

The Digic 5+ processor is a dual-core (quad-core?) Digic. So, no need to put two Digic 5s in a camera when a single Digic 5+ will do.

This is [CR0].

A dual core processor is not twice as powerful as a single core processor. The two processors have to share I/O, and this slows them down. On single threaded applications a single core processor will outperform a multi-core processor, on multi-threaded applications the multi-core processor will be faster. answers are never simple, but one thing is true, two seperate single core processors will ALWAYS outperform the version where they are combined on the same chip.

As long as it has a mag-alloy chassis, it most probably will not have integrated GPS and WiFi. The mag-alloy chassis acts as a Faraday cage, preventing decent radio reception/transmission. Canon would probably compromise on the integrity of the chassis in order to get the wireless antennas into a position where reasonable radio performance is possible.

you make a tiny hole in the metal body and run the antenna out through it, the antenna can be under the rubber grip, or anywhere else it makes sense. Works for ELT beacons.....

Also, do not confuse a faraday cage with RF shielding....... two different problems....

The Digic 5+ processor is a dual-core (quad-core?) Digic. So, no need to put two Digic 5s in a camera when a single Digic 5+ will do.

This is [CR0].

The 1D X has dual Digic 5+, so presumably that's needed for 18 MP at 14 fps. Guess what? 18.1 MP x 14 fps = 253.4 MP/s, and that value divided by the rumored 24.2 MP equals 10.5 fps, very close to the rumored 10.2 fps (and assuming no dedicated Digic 4 for metering, the job would be done by the Digic 5+'s, dropping the max throughput slightly). The 7D has dual Digic 4 (18 MP x 8 fps), and so does the 1DIV (16 MP x 10 fps).

Not saying I believe the rumor, but it's pretty certain that dual Digic 5+ would be needed to drive a data throughput (MP-fps combo) that's basically the same as the 1D X.

The Rithmetic certainly adds up! Anyway, I am not in a hurry. Spent my loot for the 5D3 :)

May be later when the price comes down - I do miss the reach of a crop body... And I don't have the moolah for a 500mm or 600mm Canon lens :(. We'll see... I'll wait for the vapors to condense, solidify and prove to be usable :)

But high frame-rate Canons tend to do whole-number frames per second, not 10.2, hence my scepticism.

The (iirc) 50D was in the same bracket and rated 6.3fps.Not that it makes any sense - with the variable delays introduced by the aperture control, the shutter cycle or flash metering w. 5 individuel TTL-groups if one goes for the worst case.Looking at the 1Dx and its shutter delay-CF: w/o additional limiting that alone could change the framerate by about 1/3 fps.

If we look at what people are unhappy about with the 7D, generally it is to do with noise and image sharpness. I am not aware of anyone being unhappy with the pixel count. Canon may however need to up the pixel count to 24MP to match Nikon and Sony, rather than to address any real need - i.e. for marketing reasons. Assuming Canon continues to flow the same sensor down through its APS-C range, that would be a reason to move to 24MP. - In the market for APS-C (and especially entry-level) DSLRs a lot of customers are still comparing "mega-pickles".

May be in 3 years time an older 70D or a 800D... That might put the crop reach in my financial ballpark :)

I hope this isn't true. I'd actually like to see Canon knock back the MP on the 7D II to 15 or 14. While I really like my 7D, the noise levels at ISO 100 are not what I'd classify as "ideal".

http://michaelhodgesfiction.com/ (http://michaelhodgesfiction.com/)

I hope this is true. Maybe they actually have a new technology incorporated in the new sensor. @18MP, the probability of Canon using the same old tech is higher than with 24MP because I think they had hit already the maximum performance for the old tech. Who knows, maybe they are using a newer tech as used to that rumored high MP 3D.

Right. I'm sure that this is how this lame 7DII rumor came into being in the first place.

But the 7DII will not have dual Digics. Take my word for it. It will have a single Digic 5+, same as the 5DIII and the 6D.

Here's another math that you can do:The 1DX has two Digic 5+ processors and a 16-channel readout (official specs).And the 5DIII has a single Digic 5+ and an 8-channel readout (again, official specs). Therefore, it can be concluded that the Digic 5+ processor has an 8-channel readout.

Also, the 6D is capable of 20mp @4.5fps with a single Digic 5+ ... and just 4 readout channels (again, official specs). This puts the throughput of the Digic 5+ processor at 20*4.5/4 = 22.5 MP/s per channel.That's a throughput of 180 MP/s total for all 8 channels on the Digic 5+ processor.

Realistically, Canon will not go over 10fps in 7DII and will not put dual Digics in it. So, I'd say that the 7DII will be spec'd anywhere between 16mp @10fs and 22mp @8fps ... with a single Digic 5+.

I'd prefer if Canon puts 16mp/10fps in the 7DII but it's more likely that they will go for 20mp/8fps.

One thing is certain, though: the dual Digic V spec is fake and this whole 7DII rumor is a lame [CR0] rumor.

This could be the "new sensor technology" or at the very least, a different arrangement of the old technology. It is an interesting number because 63.5M has not cropped up (pun intended) in discussions of high megapixel cameras.

Can't canon just design a LP-E6 II....same shape, better internals and work with any camera that takes the LP-E6

+1 I have 7D and 5D MkIII and would hope that LP-E6 can continue in 7D MkII. I expect that a LP-E6 II, whatever that may be, would not be compatible with 7D and 5D MkIII, regardless of the chosen shape. I have 5 LP-E6 copies today and a 7D upgrade to 7D MkII with LP-E6 compatibility would be very attractive - and makes sense!!

A dual Digic 5+ processor is a logical choice for the 7D MkII, although I get along fine with 8 fps with my 7D.

I hope this isn't true. I'd actually like to see Canon knock back the MP on the 7D II to 15 or 14. While I really like my 7D, the noise levels at ISO 100 are not what I'd classify as "ideal".

For the billionth time, more pixels does not mean more noise. In fact, given the same basic sensor performance, more pixels means less noise (given the same total sensor area, of course). This is because bigger pixels do nothing but simple block averaging while noise reduction software uses far more sophisticated approaches to reducing noise than that.

Think of it this way - a perfect sensor would record each photon's location. This is sort of equivalent to "infinite" pixel count.

If 10fps is true, I'm also hoping the current 19 point af of the existing 7D can produce enough keepers, if not upgrading the af system a bit as well. I definitely have more keepers on my 1d mark iii for action shooting than I ever did when I shot a 7D which is why I sold it. Although I'm sure IQ is going to be the concern most people will prioritize.

As long as it has a mag-alloy chassis, it most probably will not have integrated GPS and WiFi. The mag-alloy chassis acts as a Faraday cage, preventing decent radio reception/transmission. Canon would probably compromise on the integrity of the chassis in order to get the wireless antennas into a position where reasonable radio performance is possible.

Interesting, if Apple can get virtually every digital cell phone band, blue tooth, GPS, and WiFi out of an iPhone 5, WiFi and GPS can be done on a full size DLSR body :-) I am guessing.

Beyond that, I would love GPS, 18-24M pixels, with better noise/ISO performance. Otherwise, after upgrading from a 50D to a 7D, I am very happy.

Also, as far as the crop sensor, I am happy. I would hate to have to replace my EF-S lenses.

For the billionth time, more pixels does not mean more noise. In fact, given the same basic sensor performance, more pixels means less noise (given the same total sensor area, of course). This is because bigger pixels do nothing but simple block averaging while noise reduction software uses far more sophisticated approaches to reducing noise than that.

Think of it this way - a perfect sensor would record each photon's location. This is sort of equivalent to "infinite" pixel count.

There are a couple factors here. Hand-holding ability suffers when pixel density is too high, reducing the 7D's effectiveness as a hand-held wildlife camera. The people I shoot with have had to make the adjustment, and it's kind of a bummer. On top of that is encountering diffraction earlier on. Problematic for landscape shooters.

There are several drawbacks to cramming more pixels on small sensors. You can take as many shortcuts as you like, but eventually physics will emerge victorious, thus the booming full frame market.....

I'm not going to get overly excited about CR1 specs from an "unknown source."

Reserve judgment on a sensor until real specs and results are known (probably won't know that until several months after the announcement). Consensus on this forum seems to be that noise and dynamic range improvements are more important than the number of pixels. Absent a major change/breakthrough in sensor design, I would be surprised if Canon ups the pixel count of the APS-C sensor above that of its full frame offerings.

New battery is a mild disappointment, but I assume Canon would make the change because they have to for design/engineering reasons.

Please, let them keep at least one CF card slot in a dual card system.

New ergonomic design is too vague to warrant comment at this point.

All in all, I'm more excited that we are finally getting rumors about a 7DII. At this point, the content of those rumors aren't as important as the fact that there are rumors circulating.

If we look at what people are unhappy about with the 7D, generally it is to do with noise and image sharpness. I am not aware of anyone being unhappy with the pixel count. Canon may however need to up the pixel count to 24MP to match Nikon and Sony, rather than to address any real need - i.e. for marketing reasons. Assuming Canon continues to flow the same sensor down through its APS-C range, that would be a reason to move to 24MP. - In the market for APS-C (and especially entry-level) DSLRs a lot of customers are still comparing "mega-pickles".

7D is not really an entry level camera. I wouldn't mind 22 or 20 megapixel. Hell, even 18 would be ok. Just better high iso and sharpness would be great update.

+1 about keeping the LP-E6 battery. I use them on my 5D MK3 and 7D. I would not like to give up the exchange flexibility of batteries between those 2 cameras

LP-E6? Well yes... It would certainly be handy if the 7DII batteries were LP-E6 but I'll speculate that the replacement battery will be higher capacity to drive the AF & FPS speeds higher than a couple of LP-E6 cells could accommodate. I'll happily trade the convenience factor for performance upgrades.

+1 about keeping the LP-E6 battery. I use them on my 5D MK3 and 7D. I would not like to give up the exchange flexibility of batteries between those 2 cameras

LP-E6? Well yes... It would certainly be handy if the 7DII batteries were LP-E6 but I'll speculate that the replacement battery will be higher capacity to drive the AF & FPS speeds higher than a couple of LP-E6 cells could accommodate. I'll happily trade the convenience factor for performance upgrades.

-PW

Well, on both cameras I use the BG. And, the performance is great (using also Lexar 16GB 1000x) I have nothing to complain

But the 7DII will not have dual Digics. Take my word for it. It will have a single Digic 5+, same as the 5DIII and the 6D.

Here's another math that you can do:The 1DX has two Digic 5+ processors and a 16-channel readout (official specs).And the 5DIII has a single Digic 5+ and an 8-channel readout (again, official specs). Therefore, it can be concluded that the Digic 5+ processor has an 8-channel readout.

Also, the 6D is capable of 20mp @4.5fps with a single Digic 5+ ... and just 4 readout channels (again, official specs). This puts the throughput of the Digic 5+ processor at 20*4.5/4 = 22.5 MP/s per channel.That's a throughput of 180 MP/s total for all 8 channels on the Digic 5+ processor.

Realistically, Canon will not go over 10fps in 7DII and will not put dual Digics in it. So, I'd say that the 7DII will be spec'd anywhere between 16mp @10fs and 22mp @8fps ... with a single Digic 5+.

I'd prefer if Canon puts 16mp/10fps in the 7DII but it's more likely that they will go for 20mp/8fps.

One thing is certain, though: the dual Digic V spec is fake and this whole 7DII rumor is a lame [CR0] rumor.

Could you please provide reference that 6D has a different DIGIC 5+ processor (with 4 crippled A/D channels), than those of the 5D3 and 1D X?

All my references says it's the same DIGIC 5+ with the same 8-channel A/D, which also explains why the same DIGIC 5+ designation (e.g. not DIGIC 5-)

Assuming conservatively that 7D II is to remain at 18MP @8fps, that's ~144MPs, which is still higher than the existing 5D3's single DIGIC 5+ rating of ~134MPs. It's hard to guess how much headroom is left with a single DIGIC 5+, but I wouldn't bet on it. IMHO, it is highly probable, although not a certainty, that dual DIGIC 5+ is a real possibility for the next 7D.

interesting. the channel info is stated on the bh store page(http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/892349-REG/Canon_8035b002_EOS_6D_Digital_Camera.html (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/892349-REG/Canon_8035b002_EOS_6D_Digital_Camera.html)) so that sounds about right. single digic for the 7d2 and just a made up rumour.

interesting. the channel info is stated on the bh store page(http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/892349-REG/Canon_8035b002_EOS_6D_Digital_Camera.html (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/892349-REG/Canon_8035b002_EOS_6D_Digital_Camera.html)) so that sounds about right. single digic for the 7d2 and just a made up rumour.

from the B&H link: "the DIGIC 5+ processor also delivers overall speed and power to the 6D and utilizes dual 4-channel A/D converter"

Looks like the same 8-channel setup to me. At the minimum, I'm betting on dual DIGIC 5 (non '+').

Looks like the same 8-channel setup to me. At the minimum, I'm betting on dual DIGIC 5 (non '+').

Isnt't the difference between 5 and 5+ just the frequency at which it's clocked? In that case they could easily clock it at some inbetween frequency, or if they managed to improve a bit even higher than in the 1DX, after all, that's what all other processor manufacturers do.

interesting. the channel info is stated on the bh store page(http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/892349-REG/Canon_8035b002_EOS_6D_Digital_Camera.html (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/892349-REG/Canon_8035b002_EOS_6D_Digital_Camera.html)) so that sounds about right. single digic for the 7d2 and just a made up rumour.

from the B&H link: "the DIGIC 5+ processor also delivers overall speed and power to the 6D and utilizes dual 4-channel A/D converter"

Looks like the same 8-channel setup to me. At the minimum, I'm betting on dual DIGIC 5 (non '+').

I really hope that the resolution and sensor type are not true.... 24MP on a APS-C sensor with the current manufacturing technology is a certain disaster for Canon/7Dmk2.

Maybe they will start to use the new 180nm technology on the new sensor and than ... who knows maybe will come something worth buying in terms of sharpness and ISO performance.

Canon MUST do something with their cameras/sensors performance, because Nikon (using Sony sensors) are way ahead; every single day they loose market share. They must be little bit less greedy and ofer little more for the correct price ( like others DSLR's manufacturing companies does).

The days when they rely on the excellent lens lineup and afford to produce less bodies at higher prices are starting to vanish (and here i refer to 2012 announcements)... like in natural selection; adapt or slowly die.

Why is everyone assuming this means smaller? I find the design of a 1-series body to be much more ergonomic. :)

Here, here! I couldn't agree more Neuro. I shoot with a 7d and it's fairly comfortable with my grip. I've held and shot several of the 1 series bodies and also find them even more favorable yet. New Ergonomic design could definitely mean larger, more aero-dynamic, ergonomic... That would indeed be nice! Here's to hoping! ;)

Why is everyone assuming this means smaller? I find the design of a 1-series body to be much more ergonomic. :)

Yep the 1-Series ergonomics must be used to be fully appreciated. While I like most aspects of my 5D3, the 1D4 is streets ahead in the ergonomics department. If the 7DII can close the gap somewhat, then that can only be a good thing. Sports/action/BIF shooters who are lamenting the demise of APS-H will no doubt be looking keenly at this announcement. The new battery? I can only assume it's a higher horsepower item than the LP-E6 to drive the relevant performance benchmarks along. If Canon gets it right, the 7DII will be an absolute killer.

For the billionth time, more pixels does not mean more noise. In fact, given the same basic sensor performance, more pixels means less noise (given the same total sensor area, of course). This is because bigger pixels do nothing but simple block averaging while noise reduction software uses far more sophisticated approaches to reducing noise than that.

Think of it this way - a perfect sensor would record each photon's location. This is sort of equivalent to "infinite" pixel count.

There are a couple factors here. Hand-holding ability suffers when pixel density is too high,

No, it doesn't. The extra pixels are capable of showing the blur that was already there in more detail. Reducing the pixel count just hides that blur inside the blur due to poor sampling.

Quote

On top of that is encountering diffraction earlier on.

That's also baloney, and for the exact same reason.

Quote

There are several drawbacks to cramming more pixels on small sensors. You can take as many shortcuts as you like, but eventually physics will emerge victorious, thus the booming full frame market.....

The only drawbacks to more pixels are that better manufacturing is needed, faster processing pipelines have to be included, more storage is consumed by the final files, and more processing power is needed to post process the final images. There are no image quality disadvantages except in certain extremely way out there edge cases no one ever mentions anyway.

Why is everyone assuming this means smaller? I find the design of a 1-series body to be much more ergonomic. :)

Yep the 1-Series ergonomics must be used to be fully appreciated. While I like most aspects of my 5D3, the 1D4 is streets ahead in the ergonomics department. If the 7DII can close the gap somewhat, then that can only be a good thing. Sports/action/BIF shooters who are lamenting the demise of APS-H will no doubt be looking keenly at this announcement. The new battery? I can only assume it's a higher horsepower item than the LP-E6 to drive the relevant performance benchmarks along. If Canon gets it right, the 7DII will be an absolute killer.

-PW

++1

I think the ergonomics of the 1D series are horrible. I have small hands and the bodies are just too thick for me (literally, with my hand on the grip in the proper place, my index finger doesn't reach the shutter release). Plus, you can't remove the grip meaning you have to tote around all that extra weight and size even if you don't need it for what you are doing that day.

Plus, you can't remove the grip meaning you have to tote around all that extra weight and size even if you don't need it for what you are doing that day.

I never remove the grip the my 7D. The only time I took it off was when I loaned the camera to someone who didn't use a grip. Thus, for me, having the grip built-in is much better, for many reasons (which I know we've already discussed ;) ).

Why is everyone assuming this means smaller? I find the design of a 1-series body to be much more ergonomic. :)

Yep the 1-Series ergonomics must be used to be fully appreciated. While I like most aspects of my 5D3, the 1D4 is streets ahead in the ergonomics department. If the 7DII can close the gap somewhat, then that can only be a good thing. Sports/action/BIF shooters who are lamenting the demise of APS-H will no doubt be looking keenly at this announcement. The new battery? I can only assume it's a higher horsepower item than the LP-E6 to drive the relevant performance benchmarks along. If Canon gets it right, the 7DII will be an absolute killer.

-PW

++1

I think the ergonomics of the 1D series are horrible. I have small hands and the bodies are just too thick for me (literally, with my hand on the grip in the proper place, my index finger doesn't reach the shutter release). Plus, you can't remove the grip meaning you have to tote around all that extra weight and size even if you don't need it for what you are doing that day.

I can certainly understand your dilema. I have pretty good sized hands. When I first bought the 60D, the small size was one of the first things that turned me off and I found very uncomfortable. When I bought my 7D, I was relieved and pretty happy about the good overall feeling of soliditity and balance I had with the camera.

After shooting a 1d series, I purchased the grip for my 7D. I was originally hesitant, due to what I thought was a high cost for the OEM, but purchased it anyway after holding and shooting a 1 series. In the last 3 years since I've had the grip, I've only ever removed it three times. Twice for maintenance cleaning and once to let my daughter try shooting with it, it was to large for her with the grip and her small hands...

I wish they would build it with the battery grip, however I know that would be very inconvenient for many folks that don't like it or it's too large for. I have no problem purchasing a new one for the MK II if it needs a different one. Seems likely if they are changing the batteries...

I wish they would build it with the battery grip, however I know that would be very inconvenient for many folks that don't like it or it's too large for.

I don't see why anyone would want the grip to be built in and not removable. I do see why people would want a better grip than the ones they build for the non-1-series now. That's why I advocate for the better ungripped bodies (5D, 7D, possibly xxD, plus the 1-series) to get a 1V-style grip, and leave the bottom-mounted grip for the Rebels. That way everyone can get what they want. You could have an ungripped 1-series, or a solidly-gripped 7D/5D etc. neither of which is available right now.

I wish they would build it with the battery grip, however I know that would be very inconvenient for many folks that don't like it or it's too large for.

I don't see why anyone would want the grip to be built in and not removable. I do see why people would want a better grip than the ones they build for the non-1-series now. That's why I advocate for the better ungripped bodies (5D, 7D, possibly xxD, plus the 1-series) to get a 1V-style grip, and leave the bottom-mounted grip for the Rebels. That way everyone can get what they want. You could have an ungripped 1-series, or a solidly-gripped 7D/5D etc. neither of which is available right now.

Lee that sounds good to me too! I think I'd like one built in, as I've just never really had the occassion to shoot without it, the better ungripped body with the 1v style grip sounds like a great idea, definitely a step up from what we have now for the 5d/7d bodies. Other than the 1-series, I don't see them ever doing built in grips on any of the other line up...

For the billionth time, more pixels does not mean more noise. In fact, given the same basic sensor performance, more pixels means less noise (given the same total sensor area, of course). This is because bigger pixels do nothing but simple block averaging while noise reduction software uses far more sophisticated approaches to reducing noise than that.

Think of it this way - a perfect sensor would record each photon's location. This is sort of equivalent to "infinite" pixel count.

There are a couple factors here. Hand-holding ability suffers when pixel density is too high,

No, it doesn't. The extra pixels are capable of showing the blur that was already there in more detail. Reducing the pixel count just hides that blur inside the blur due to poor sampling.

Quote

On top of that is encountering diffraction earlier on.

That's also baloney, and for the exact same reason.

Quote

There are several drawbacks to cramming more pixels on small sensors. You can take as many shortcuts as you like, but eventually physics will emerge victorious, thus the booming full frame market.....

The only drawbacks to more pixels are that better manufacturing is needed, faster processing pipelines have to be included, more storage is consumed by the final files, and more processing power is needed to post process the final images. There are no image quality disadvantages except in certain extremely way out there edge cases no one ever mentions anyway.

If all that is true, why does the 1Dx have only 18MP and the Nikon D4 only 16MP?

Does anyone think the ISO performance in the 7D could have been improved in a firmware update?

Do you mean "Could have been improved" like in the past tense, did they do it and not tell us? or "Could have been improved", why the heck didn't they do it?

If you meant the first way, I'd say definitely not. Not in mine anyway! If the second meaning, I say if they could have, they should have! Sadly, I don't know enough about that part of the technology to know everything they can or can't do in a firmware upgrade... There are plenty of experts here that do know though! Good question!

Well, I am assuming everyone updated to 2.0, then got furious when they released 2.0.3, leaving us to wonder what was done in 2.0, then added to 2.0.3. Once the dust settled on that, I personally think the imaging improved, but the ISO noise could have been improved(IMHO). Now with the rumour of a 7D MK2 on the horizon, everyone is complaining about the poor ISO noise of the 7D. So I guess they didn't improve it, even though they could have, right?

Well, I am assuming everyone updated to 2.0, then got furious when they released 2.0.3, leaving us to wonder what was done in 2.0, then added to 2.0.3. Once the dust settled on that, I personally think the imaging improved, but the ISO noise could have been improved(IMHO). Now with the rumour of a 7D MK2 on the horizon, everyone is complaining about the poor ISO noise of the 7D. So I guess they didn't improve it, even though they could have, right?

Not me, I just waited until 2.03 came out and only loaded the firmware the one time... Too many people seemed to be having issues with 2.0, so I had a bit of trepidation with regard to just jumping on the bandwagon...

HMMM...New ergonomic design? Why? The 7D's, and 5D III which borrowed from it, ergonomics are pretty damn stellar...I really hope Canon doesn't screw up one of the best things they have going for them. I stick with Canon for two primary reasons: Ergonomics and Lens quality. I generally could care less about the rest of the speculation at this point...but ergonomics...Canon just better not screw that one up.

Well, I am assuming everyone updated to 2.0, then got furious when they released 2.0.3, leaving us to wonder what was done in 2.0, then added to 2.0.3. Once the dust settled on that, I personally think the imaging improved, but the ISO noise could have been improved(IMHO).

I don't see how firmware would improve high-ISO noise, which is mostly dependent on the quantum efficiency of the sensor and the transmittance of the Bayer dyes. You might be able to do some calibration tricks and dark-frame subtraction to help with fixed pattern noise, but there's just not much else you could do, other than applying noise reduction to the raw images which we generally don't like.

I'm not going to get overly excited about CR1 specs from an "unknown source."

Reserve judgment on a sensor until real specs and results are known (probably won't know that until several months after the announcement). Consensus on this forum seems to be that noise and dynamic range improvements are more important than the number of pixels. Absent a major change/breakthrough in sensor design, I would be surprised if Canon ups the pixel count of the APS-C sensor above that of its full frame offerings.

New battery is a mild disappointment, but I assume Canon would make the change because they have to for design/engineering reasons.

Please, let them keep at least one CF card slot in a dual card system.

New ergonomic design is too vague to warrant comment at this point.

All in all, I'm more excited that we are finally getting rumors about a 7DII. At this point, the content of those rumors aren't as important as the fact that there are rumors circulating.

If we look at what people are unhappy about with the 7D, generally it is to do with noise and image sharpness. I am not aware of anyone being unhappy with the pixel count. Canon may however need to up the pixel count to 24MP to match Nikon and Sony, rather than to address any real need - i.e. for marketing reasons. Assuming Canon continues to flow the same sensor down through its APS-C range, that would be a reason to move to 24MP. - In the market for APS-C (and especially entry-level) DSLRs a lot of customers are still comparing "mega-pickles".

Thats it, if it is another 18mp sensor, I am selling all my imaginary CAJ stock....

I don't see how firmware would improve high-ISO noise, which is mostly dependent on the quantum efficiency of the sensor and the transmittance of the Bayer dyes. You might be able to do some calibration tricks and dark-frame subtraction to help with fixed pattern noise, but there's just not much else you could do, other than applying noise reduction to the raw images which we generally don't like.

Wow. This is why I like to read and ask questions here. I learn a lot. Thanks Lee Jay.

I don't see how firmware would improve high-ISO noise, which is mostly dependent on the quantum efficiency of the sensor and the transmittance of the Bayer dyes. You might be able to do some calibration tricks and dark-frame subtraction to help with fixed pattern noise, but there's just not much else you could do, other than applying noise reduction to the raw images which we generally don't like.

Wow. This is why I like to read and ask questions here. I learn a lot. Thanks Lee Jay.

In other news - development of software or firmware has nothing to do with the principles of maths/physics/chemistry or computer science... Hence one can expect improvements by leaps and bounds...

What they could mean about the battery, is that they are changing the voltage. They updated the 1dx battery, even though it was still compatible with the lp-e4. Canon may just want the new battery for longer lasting life, with the 10fps, and a large file, the camera needs power to save the images.

Something else I'd like, is if canon make a new grip for this 7d ii, I hope it is like the Nikon d300 grip, where you add in a different battery for more power. If they do this with the 1dx battery, and allow the fps to go up, or the fps to last longer, sports/wildlife photographers would really go for that.

Please don't use that site. That guy barely understands diffraction and the site itself is misleading in that it could lead people into thinking that smaller pixels cause more diffraction, which is just flat out false. Diffraction is caused by lens aperture, and nothing else.

Non 1-Series bodies feel almost clunky by comparison. I use both on a daily basis. Ergonomics is one of the defining points of difference between 1-Series and 7D/5D3. Once used, it's hard to settle for less.

If the 7DII can close the gap with further ergonomic refinement then what's there to argue?

New design and battery.. WHY CANON, WHY?! But other specs looks nice, but I'll pass if I'm not getting good deal out of that one.

New batteries because too many cameras use the same battery and people have enough BP-E6 so they don't buy new ones. If you are a serious user, you want at least a spare one, that you have to buy separately. You cannot reuse the spare from your old camera anymore. A new accessory they can make money from.

As long as it has a mag-alloy chassis, it most probably will not have integrated GPS and WiFi. The mag-alloy chassis acts as a Faraday cage, preventing decent radio reception/transmission. Canon would probably compromise on the integrity of the chassis in order to get the wireless antennas into a position where reasonable radio performance is possible.

I only want two things in the 7D2. Less noise at higher ISO -- ideally a 2 stop boost. And a locking mode dial. More AF points and higher FPS would be nice pluses, but not necessary for me.

The one feature that intrigues me about the 5D3 is it's performance in low light. Based on researching online reviews, I estimate the benefit to be about 3 stops over the 7D (and my 60D). So, I've dreamed about swapping my 60D/17-55 2.8 IS for the 5DIII/24-105 4L IS -- a logical upgrade path. I would be losing a stop on the lens for a net gain of 2 stops in low light performance.

Now, if the 7D2 offered that 2 stop boost, I wouldn't need the 5D3 -- which is why I fear that the 7D2 will only have a modest boost in low light performance. Granted, the 5D3 offers sharper images and deeper color, but I suspect its low light advantage is a key reason that many consider it to be the logical upgrade for a 7D. Canon may want to preserve this path.

I do think that Canon will position the 7D2 to be the king of crop bodies. This means more MP, maybe more FPS, and better video -- better than the consumer bodies. I suspect this is why the 5D3 and the 6D lack the STM video focus benefits of the T4i. Canon may be saving a better video focus system for the 7D2. However, I doubt that the 7D2 will get the articulating screen simply because it lessens the durability factor.

I hope I'm wrong. I don't really care about the video improvements. All I want is better low light performance -- and a locking mode dial.

I know, a 2 stop boost in high ISO noise reduction is a lot to ask for.

Regarding the noise reduction benefit of the 5D3 vs. 7D, I was definitely looking at the JPEGs and have looked at DPReview's comparison tool. In a way, I'd take it as good news that the difference is less than two stops since I don't want to spend the money on a 5D3.

I've also looked at the Image Resource's Comparometer (link below). I don't know if they use in-camera JPEGs or RAW converted by software. But, to me, the 5D3 at 25600 looks better than the 7D at 6400, but not as good as the 7D at 3200 -- roughly 2 1/2 stops. Now, I suspect this is a controlled test and real world results may not be as significant. So, it helps to hear from those with hands on experience.

I know, a 2 stop boost in high ISO noise reduction is a lot to ask for.

Regarding the noise reduction benefit of the 5D3 vs. 7D, I was definitely looking at the JPEGs and have looked at DPReview's comparison tool. In a way, I'd take it as good news that the difference is less than two stops since I don't want to spend the money on a 5D3.

I've also looked at the Image Resource's Comparometer (link below). I don't know if they use in-camera JPEGs or RAW converted by software. But, to me, the 5D3 at 25600 looks better than the 7D at 6400, but not as good as the 7D at 3200 -- roughly 2 1/2 stops. Now, I suspect this is a controlled test and real world results may not be as significant. So, it helps to hear from those with hands on experience.

Non 1-Series bodies feel almost clunky by comparison. I use both on a daily basis. Ergonomics is one of the defining points of difference between 1-Series and 7D/5D3. Once used, it's hard to settle for less.

If the 7DII can close the gap with further ergonomic refinement then what's there to argue?

-PW

+1 here.One of the reasons that made me choose the 1DX over the 5D MKIII even if it was twice more expensive.Of course,that is aside from the 1DX being a bit better and AF and a bit better higher ISO performance,and last but not least,the 12 FPS as compared to the 6 FPS of the 5D MKIII.

I know, a 2 stop boost in high ISO noise reduction is a lot to ask for.

Regarding the noise reduction benefit of the 5D3 vs. 7D, I was definitely looking at the JPEGs and have looked at DPReview's comparison tool. In a way, I'd take it as good news that the difference is less than two stops since I don't want to spend the money on a 5D3.

I've also looked at the Image Resource's Comparometer (link below). I don't know if they use in-camera JPEGs or RAW converted by software. But, to me, the 5D3 at 25600 looks better than the 7D at 6400, but not as good as the 7D at 3200 -- roughly 2 1/2 stops. Now, I suspect this is a controlled test and real world results may not be as significant. So, it helps to hear from those with hands on experience.

Those are JPEGs and, yes, the new JPEG engine is very impressive in this regard.

JPEG engines are good, yes, but it is not just processing that improves ISO on Canon's latest sensors. Improvements to Q.E. increase the full well capacity (FWC) in terms of electrons. That in turn allows the use of a higher gain at ISO 100, which increases gain at all other ISO settings (which drop by a factor of two for each stop of ISO.) So, I wouldn't go so far as to say improving ISO by around two stops on the 7D is impossible. Based on sensorgen.info, Canon has been able to improve ISO by about a stop for every 8% increase in Q.E. At the moment, the 7D has 41% Q.E., so if the 7D II was improved to around 57% Q.E. or so, I do not see why it would be impossible for then to achieve two stops better ISO.

I wish they would build it with the battery grip, however I know that would be very inconvenient for many folks that don't like it or it's too large for.

I don't see why anyone would want the grip to be built in and not removable.

Granted, it's a limited and self-selecting population, but in the recent Custom Brackets poll (http://www.the-digital-picture.com/News/News-Post.aspx?News=3559), more people have gripped bodies than not, and the majority of people who have a grip on their body use it frequently.

I wish they would build it with the battery grip, however I know that would be very inconvenient for many folks that don't like it or it's too large for.

I don't see why anyone would want the grip to be built in and not removable.

Granted, it's a limited and self-selecting population, but in the recent Custom Brackets poll (http://www.the-digital-picture.com/News/News-Post.aspx?News=3559), more people have gripped bodies than not, and the majority of people who have a grip on their body use it frequently.

New design and battery.. WHY CANON, WHY?! But other specs looks nice, but I'll pass if I'm not getting good deal out of that one.

New batteries because too many cameras use the same battery and people have enough BP-E6 so they don't buy new ones. If you are a serious user, you want at least a spare one, that you have to buy separately. You cannot reuse the spare from your old camera anymore. A new accessory they can make money from.

Yes, but, batteries lose their potential life over time. So even if you have a ton, they will have to be replaced at some point. Plus, i'd bet their profit margin is a lot better on lenses!

I really hope that the resolution and sensor type are not true.... 24MP on a APS-C sensor with the current manufacturing technology is a certain disaster for Canon/7Dmk2.

Maybe they will start to use the new 180nm technology on the new sensor and than ... who knows maybe will come something worth buying in terms of sharpness and ISO performance.

Canon MUST do something with their cameras/sensors performance, because Nikon (using Sony sensors) are way ahead; every single day they loose market share. They must be little bit less greedy and ofer little more for the correct price ( like others DSLR's manufacturing companies does).

The days when they rely on the excellent lens lineup and afford to produce less bodies at higher prices are starting to vanish (and here i refer to 2012 announcements)... like in natural selection; adapt or slowly die.

Really not sure where you are getting that data. Looking at the current amazon top sellers list, 12 of the top 20 are canon - and 25 of the top 40 are canon. Nikon is doing its best to catch up, and while many on canon see that as a problem, I see that as a good thing, strong competition generally drives innovation. But, I do worry for canon on a certain level. Most of the gripes I hear on this forum are cost cost cost cost. It's too much. It doesn't do enough. This is $200 lower. Etc Etc Etc... Sorry, but I'd rather the race be to the top, better cam's, better performance. But the gripes I hear, if that was the actual voice of the market, is a race to the body. Make it cheaper, make it cheaper, make it cheaper. I'd rather spend my $$$ on a product that will last! I don't want a rebel FF that will fall apart in a year!

The Digic 5+ processor is a dual-core (quad-core?) Digic. So, no need to put two Digic 5s in a camera when a single Digic 5+ will do.

This is [CR0].

one thing is true, two seperate single core processors will ALWAYS outperform the version where they are combined on the same chip.

Not necessarily. The chip architecture determines this. For example, transfer speeds between chips have to be taken into account- when dual processors live on the same chip transfer distances can be reduced.

New design and battery.. WHY CANON, WHY?! But other specs looks nice, but I'll pass if I'm not getting good deal out of that one.

New batteries because too many cameras use the same battery and people have enough BP-E6 so they don't buy new ones. If you are a serious user, you want at least a spare one, that you have to buy separately. You cannot reuse the spare from your old camera anymore. A new accessory they can make money from.

Yes, but, batteries lose their potential life over time. So even if you have a ton, they will have to be replaced at some point. Plus, i'd bet their profit margin is a lot better on lenses!

I agree, but I guess there is no small profit. I wonder if the profit margin is not even bigger on small accessories, glass is expensive to manufacture, and you cannot compress to cost past a certain point.On the other hand, when you see the price of lens caps, cables, flashes and hoods, the margin is huge. Not even talking about battery grips, WiFi and GPS accessories.

I am very surprised how good and long lasting BP-E6s are. I can't remember when I needed more than 2 BP-E6 per day in my 5D2, and I use it sometimes all day long on tripod with live view all the time. After 3 years + of good service, they show only minimal capacity loss, I cannot say the same for my Thinkpad who needs a new battery every year. I have 3 BP-E6 to work, and I don't see the need for buying new ones yet.

I wonder if the profit margin is not even bigger on small accessories, glass is expensive to manufacture, and you cannot compress to cost past a certain point.On the other hand, when you see the price of lens caps, cables, flashes and hoods, the margin is huge. Not even talking about battery grips, WiFi and GPS accessories.

+1. I pity the 600mm user who loses his lens hood.

The last four LP-E6 copies I bought were $8 each. Call me a reckless daredevil if you like but not one has exploded.

I would be willing to bet that the new battery design was due to the same Japanese regulations that forced them to create a new battery for the 5D III and 1D X. New safety regulations often force manufacturers to do things they otherwise would not do. It is not always the corporation that makes decisions...all too frequently these days decisions are taken out of the hands of corporations by governments, to the detriment of the consumer most of the time.

I would be willing to bet that the new battery design was due to the same Japanese regulations that forced them to create a new battery for the 5D III and 1D X. New safety regulations often force manufacturers to do things they otherwise would not do. It is not always the corporation that makes decisions...all too frequently these days decisions are taken out of the hands of corporations by governments, to the detriment of the consumer most of the time.

The 5D3 has a new battery? Guess I'm lucky my old 4 7D batteries happen to work! ;)

I would be willing to bet that the new battery design was due to the same Japanese regulations that forced them to create a new battery for the 5D III and 1D X. New safety regulations often force manufacturers to do things they otherwise would not do. It is not always the corporation that makes decisions...all too frequently these days decisions are taken out of the hands of corporations by governments, to the detriment of the consumer most of the time.

The 5D3 has a new battery? Guess I'm lucky my old 4 7D batteries happen to work! ;)

Sorry, looks like only the 1D X got a new battery, the LP-E4N. The 1D X battery is backwards compatible with the LP-E4 though, and seems to work in the 1D IV as well. Given that, I wouldn't be surprised to see a new type of battery for the 7D II work in the 7D (and, for that matter, the 5D II and III since they all seem to use the same battery.)

I only want two things in the 7D2. Less noise at higher ISO -- ideally a 2 stop boost. And a locking mode dial. More AF points and higher FPS would be nice pluses, but not necessary for me.

I hope I'm wrong. I don't really care about the video improvements. All I want is better low light performance -- and a locking mode dial.

+1

It's odd how frequently the mode dial has turned accidentally lately! It amazes me that it could happen to me! When I heard initially one could get the locking one for an extra $100 I thought who needs it?

I wish they would build it with the battery grip, however I know that would be very inconvenient for many folks that don't like it or it's too large for.

I don't see why anyone would want the grip to be built in and not removable.

Ha, ha! True, but not if the 5d3 is gripped East Wind! ; ::)

Granted, it's a limited and self-selecting population, but in the recent Custom Brackets poll (http://www.the-digital-picture.com/News/News-Post.aspx?News=3559), more people have gripped bodies than not, and the majority of people who have a grip on their body use it frequently.

Non 1-Series bodies feel almost clunky by comparison. I use both on a daily basis. Ergonomics is one of the defining points of difference between 1-Series and 7D/5D3. Once used, it's hard to settle for less.

If the 7DII can close the gap with further ergonomic refinement then what's there to argue?

I only want two things in the 7D2. Less noise at higher ISO -- ideally a 2 stop boost. And a locking mode dial. More AF points and higher FPS would be nice pluses, but not necessary for me.

I hope I'm wrong. I don't really care about the video improvements. All I want is better low light performance -- and a locking mode dial.

+1

It's odd how frequently the mode dial has turned accidentally lately! It amazes me that it could happen to me! When I heard initially one could get the locking one for an extra $100 I thought who needs it?

I've been knocking my mode dial off kilter lately too! Strange, never did until the last couple of months. I don't think it's a bad deal to have one, just didn't see the value for the $100+ upgrade when they originally offered it...

I only want two things in the 7D2. Less noise at higher ISO -- ideally a 2 stop boost. And a locking mode dial. More AF points and higher FPS would be nice pluses, but not necessary for me.

I hope I'm wrong. I don't really care about the video improvements. All I want is better low light performance -- and a locking mode dial.

+1

It's odd how frequently the mode dial has turned accidentally lately! It amazes me that it could happen to me! When I heard initially one could get the locking one for an extra $100 I thought who needs it?

I've been knocking my mode dial off kilter lately too! Strange, never did until the last couple of months. I don't think it's a bad deal to have one, just didn't see the value for the $100+ upgrade when they originally offered it...

I have not had a problem with the dial of the 300D. Never hit it and changed the setting. Also on the 5D3, I got used to the lock quite fast. No problem there either. May be the knob on the 300D was a different shape - more taper or shorter. Don't have it with me now - my daughter has it so I can't check...

I only want two things in the 7D2. Less noise at higher ISO -- ideally a 2 stop boost. And a locking mode dial. More AF points and higher FPS would be nice pluses, but not necessary for me.

I hope I'm wrong. I don't really care about the video improvements. All I want is better low light performance -- and a locking mode dial.

+1

It's odd how frequently the mode dial has turned accidentally lately! It amazes me that it could happen to me! When I heard initially one could get the locking one for an extra $100 I thought who needs it?

I've been knocking my mode dial off kilter lately too! Strange, never did until the last couple of months. I don't think it's a bad deal to have one, just didn't see the value for the $100+ upgrade when they originally offered it...

Same deal here! Never happened until it started a few months ago! Doesn't even feel too loose and I never notice when bumping it- only after the fact.

I wish they would build it with the battery grip, however I know that would be very inconvenient for many folks that don't like it or it's too large for.

I don't see why anyone would want the grip to be built in and not removable.

Ha, ha! True, but not if the 5d3 is gripped East Wind! ; ::)

Granted, it's a limited and self-selecting population, but in the recent Custom Brackets poll (http://www.the-digital-picture.com/News/News-Post.aspx?News=3559), more people have gripped bodies than not, and the majority of people who have a grip on their body use it frequently.

I wish they would build it with the battery grip, however I know that would be very inconvenient for many folks that don't like it or it's too large for.

I don't see why anyone would want the grip to be built in and not removable.

Ha, ha! True, but not if the 5d3 is gripped East Wind! ; ::)

Granted, it's a limited and self-selecting population, but in the recent Custom Brackets poll (http://www.the-digital-picture.com/News/News-Post.aspx?News=3559), more people have gripped bodies than not, and the majority of people who have a grip on their body use it frequently.

A fully integrated grip allows better weather sealing, improves stability and rigidity, and can allow better placement of additional or secondary buttons and functionality than a removable grip. For those types, such as myself, that pretty much always use a grip anyway and never remove it, an integrated grip is ideal.

The real key point to having an integrated grip though is better weather sealing...you just plain and simply can't seal a removable grip the same way...and weather sealing is one of the key selling points of the 1D line.

I wish they would build it with the battery grip, however I know that would be very inconvenient for many folks that don't like it or it's too large for.

I don't see why anyone would want the grip to be built in and not removable.

Ha, ha! True, but not if the 5d3 is gripped East Wind! ; ::)

Granted, it's a limited and self-selecting population, but in the recent Custom Brackets poll (http://www.the-digital-picture.com/News/News-Post.aspx?News=3559), more people have gripped bodies than not, and the majority of people who have a grip on their body use it frequently.

A fully integrated grip allows better weather sealing, improves stability and rigidity, and can allow better placement of additional or secondary buttons and functionality than a removable grip. For those types, such as myself, that pretty much always use a grip anyway and never remove it, an integrated grip is ideal.

The real key point to having an integrated grip though is better weather sealing...you just plain and simply can't seal a removable grip the same way...and weather sealing is one of the key selling points of the 1D line.

Your comment about weather sealing is very true. I was shooting during 1 inch per hour rain in Florida with my 7D gripped, after about 4 hours, the buttons on the back of the 7D died which is usually a good indication that the 7D has been liquid damaged and is dead. However, I decided to component isolate and remove the grip, turns out the grip had died but not the 7D.

Turns out that the Canon grips are not weather sealed. If the camera/grip are in the rain, the weather sealing of the body is moot. With a permanent grip, the weather sealing would be much better.

A fully integrated grip allows better weather sealing, improves stability and rigidity, and can allow better placement of additional or secondary buttons and functionality than a removable grip. For those types, such as myself, that pretty much always use a grip anyway and never remove it, an integrated grip is ideal.

The real key point to having an integrated grip though is better weather sealing...you just plain and simply can't seal a removable grip the same way...and weather sealing is one of the key selling points of the 1D line.

Your comment about weather sealing is very true. I was shooting during 1 inch per hour rain in Florida with my 7D gripped, after about 4 hours, the buttons on the back of the 7D died which is usually a good indication that the 7D has been liquid damaged and is dead. However, I decided to component isolate and remove the grip, turns out the grip had died but not the 7D.

Turns out that the Canon grips are not weather sealed. If the camera/grip are in the rain, the weather sealing of the body is moot. With a permanent grip, the weather sealing would be much better.

Personally, I use a Zeikos grip on my 7D. It actually does have some weather sealing. During Spring in 2012, I used my 7D in rain, sleet, snow, and even hail for over eight hours (it was a hell of a day for weather!) There were times with both my 100-400mm lens and the 7D were completely soaked, but nothing died, and everything seemed to work perfectly. When I got home and popped out the batteries for a recharge, I noticed that the Zeikos grip actually had a little foam rubber sealing gasket around the battery compartment, and again around the extension that fits into the 7D's battery cavity. I figure the buttons are probably moderately sealed...can't say if they are as good as the 7D's sealing or not. Regardless, if you want a grip for the 7D that can hold up to the weather, the Zeikos is it (and cheaper to boot)! 8)