Thursday, January 19, 2017

Did Reb Moshe Shapiro ever sit down with רבי יואל כהן or any other ליובאוויטשער חסיד?

So we discussed RMS yesterday, backdating the post to soon after his passing. I got all kinds of messages, both here and in private, how I was asking a silly question re: why did he never mention Chabad. He learned and loved sifrei Chabad but never would he mention them by name in public. The more respectful ones will tell me that it wasn't what he was preaching, so if he did mention Chabad he would use pareve terms like צדיקי אמת or מקובלים. He was a Litvisher, so why mention Chabad. OK. Whatever. Others, those who have big mouths, speak how "today's Chabad" was a "perversion" of the REAL Chabad. As if. As if he knew. As if heever bothered to speak to anybody in Chabad. I mean it's nice that he discovered a whole new world in Tanya and Likkutei Torah, but just like every other limmud you need to have a Rebbi. Don't think you know just because you have a good head, and then go and dismiss thousands of others who follow a mesorah for 200+ years. Did you ever make an appointment with an "expert" in Sifrei Chabad who has a mesorah and discuss with him, try to learn from/with him? And if you think you can do it on your won what does that say about you?

Then I wanna know why someone like our friend "Litvak from Budapest" (what's that?) who says that the Leshem held that Chabad was megashem lofty concepts and that's why he didn't mention Chabad, so why learn those seforim at all? The Leshem was totally opposed to Toras HaChassidus from the BeSHT on, שרק those that claim to follow his teachings are allowed to learn Sifrei Chabad? שפת אמת? ר' צדוק? שם משמואל? And in Chabad גופא - it's only the later doros that were meGashem? So תניא-ליקוטי תורה is still allowed? like where did it start? the Tzemach Tzedek perhaps? Was he meGashem? Litvak, you consider your self a rational person, is that what you believe? And what does to be MeGashem mean anyway? Where do these people get these ideas, and why do sane, rational people follow them?! Just because he's a little out of the box and speaks of new concepts? II guess so. It seems to me that they've remained very much within the box of anti-Chassidus, despite all the learning.

The answer is very poshut. At least for me. [I was thinking of bringing R' Eli Weintraub into this discussion, because he was a similar person. He learned Chabad and would even mention the source, but he too somehow "understood better."] To learn Chassidus and be a gantze mentsh far zich just doesn't exist. Chassidus is bittul. If you learn and internalize you become bottul. You can teach but it's not about you. The examples are numerous. Too numerous to mention. The examples even go as far as people who do make it about them have a very hard time teaching Chassidus, because it just won't "allow it." So people who become "Gedolim" based on teaching מחשבה and becoming ענקי המחשבה - that doesn't jive with Chassidus Chabad. So much so that they can't even mention sifrei Chabad - almost as if the seforim itself won't ALLOW themselves to be mentioned... Then there's a side issue I have with many of these same personalities, how they all somehow manage to hook up with the adversaries of Chabad Shluchim and become those who put them on the map. Especially in places like the Former Soviet Union, וד"ל. But that's for another time. יש עוד הרבה מה להגיד.

I am honored to be a subject of your post. However your English skills are of Spinka standards and I haven't the foggiest clue what you are talking about.Please correct your English or translate to Yiddish.

Btw, you seem to have been misunderstanding my point. Some lowlife mechutzaf decided that when a non chassid mentions Torah, he must be reminded that someone or other said that his (and Reb Chaim Volozhiner's) Torah is worthless. The Leshem was an answer to that. The Leshem never discussed Chabad.

Your definition of a Chossid is ludicrous. You won't actually print this, but how did Reb Moshe Shapiro make a yesh of himself in kabbala any more than any Lubavitcher Rebbe did?

Did Reb Yoel Kahn sit down with Reb Moshe Shapiro or any non Chabad mekubal before deciding that Chabad was the way to go? Did the Lubavitcher Rebbe? Why is a world class talmid chochom subject to harsher criticism than others not on his level in.learning?

I would like to see what Litvak of Pest wrote?when someone starts answering by attacking the other persons style of writing, you see that he is on bad footing, since writing and comprehension are not related....

brisker said..." espcially of the perverted lubavicher version of it?"which part of tanya did reb Yoel Pervert?which part of tanya did reb Yosel Wienberg Pervert?which part of tanya did reb Libel Altien of Chasidus Mevuerers pervert?we are ready to listen to a lecture of the authentic brisker way of learning Tanya and the 770 perverted way of learning Tanya

Truth has to be saidReb Moshe Shapira and Rav Elye Wientraub, their coming on the horizon coincided the same time as the Maran Shach inquisition started to bloom in to a big fireball, Maran shachs firing squads were out to bully whoever was not willing to walk in Marans footsteps Reb Moshe and reb Elye had a certain independent streak, which was prohibited in the ear of bemna berak inquisitionBoth were on the list to get booted by Maran with a Stienzalt/Soloviechig style letter.Both, immediately learned the trick that to quiet down the regime, they would be better off to serve it. So wientraub served it with some chabad hate what Maran loved and shapira did some other great deed for the regime.they were too small fishes to get ostracized by the regime and still survive. Only giants as Grieniman and reb Mechel Fienstien could survive it.... they had followers from the old school and they were the most connected families ... from Brisk to Chazon Ish

He the Leshem might as well meant reb chaim v. ? But either way pardon his greatness he was in no match to the greatness of reb chaim He was rather a lone ranger of r' kooks caliber (a minsker talmid to), and found his anti in harav Ashlag the baal hasilom. To consider his writings on the talmidi baal shem, his opinion is null he wasn't worth to carry their water, to say the least. עפ"ל

“Applied” is a technical term describing a variety of new philosophical enterprises. The author examines and rejects the view that these fields are derivative. Whatever principles, judgments, or background theories that are employed to solve problems in these areas are either changed by how they are used, or at least the possibility exists of their being changed. Hence we ought to stop calling these endeavors “applied”, or agree that the meaning of “apply” will have to include the possibility that what is applied may be changed. The socalled applied fields of philosophy, therefore, are not derivative. The strongest cases to the contrary are the foundationalist views that what we apply is epistemically privileged. Different foundationalist views take different principles, judgments, or background theories to be epistemically privileged. Strong and weak versions of each of these foundationalist views are considered but none establish these fields as derivative. Loretta M. Kopelman, Ph.D. Oxford

1: I like that you bring in Reb Elche Weintraub. What RMS and REW have in common is that they both were talmidim muvhakim of Rav Hutner.

RYH certainly did "have a Rebbi" in Toras Chabad in both the Rayat"z and Rama"sh, whom he learned with bechavrusa.

It is fair to say, that RYH, having been a study partner of the last two Lubavitcher Rebbe's was enough of an authority in Toras Chaba"d to give over to his Talmidim and for them to have a derech in it as well.

2:I personally would agree with those who said that RMS felt that Chaba"d of today has perverted their derech and he did not want his Talmidim going there. Let's not forget that RMS grew up Bnei Braq, vedal....

3:Instead of asking such childish questions such as "Ma tivo", why dont you just go and listen to any of the many shiurim and shmuessin of RMS and see for yourself. I promise that you will be captivated by this brillance and gadlus.

HT: "The answer is very poshut. At least for me. [I was thinking of bringing R' Eli Weintraub into this discussion, because he was a similar person. He learned Chabad and would even mention the source, but he too somehow "understood better."] To learn Chassidus and be a gantze mentsh far zich just doesn't exist. Chassidus is bittul. If you learn and internalize you become bottul. You can teach but it's not about you. The examples are numerous. Too numerous to mention. The examples even go as far as people who do make it about them have a very hard time teaching Chassidus, because it just won't "allow it." So people who become "Gedolim" based on teaching מחשבה and becoming ענקי המחשבה - that doesn't jive with Chassidus Chabad." OR WITH ANY OTHERS!

With this statement you have hit the final nail in their head! As humble as Chassidus gets you the more you get it. The opposite is true by them, even when they say nothing, and know nothing their egotistical demeanor says it all.

Muvhakim? Seriously? RMS was not a real talmid of Rav Hutner. Their Torahs aee wildly different, their attitudes and everything about them. RMS did hear something from him, but he was by no stretch a talmid, let alone muvhak.

When you say that "their toras are wildly different", I am not sure if you are referring to RYH and RMS or RMS and REW. But you are correct, all three of them had a wildly different style. Though I'm not certain why that would have any baring on your argument.

RYH is well known to have been maamid talmidim of all stripes and colors. He used to say " Mir zenen nish kein Sedoim-bet oifen kup".

Both in machshava and in halacha RYH talmidim can be found at opposite ends of the spectrum. And many will say that is precisely his greatness. (See Rav Gifter's hesped on RYH).

See last week's Mishpacha Magazine where it mentioned the well known chavrusashaft between RYH and RMS. (I heard yesterday from a reliable source that it was in Kisvei Ari).

That said RMS himself considered himself a talmid of RYH and considered RYH his Rebbe in machshava. You can confirm same with some of RYH other talmidim in EY, namely Reb Dovid Cohen of Chevron and Reb Yehoshua Hartman of Har Nof (new Maharal).

"האט א געוויסע חוג זיך אויסגערופען אלס די בעלעבתים אויף תורת הנסתר".for some odd reason, in the universe of Kabalah, everyone was sure that they have the authoritylet it be reb Chaim Vital, till Zidichov/Komarno and the Baal Hasilom

"The humble me said...HT: "The answer is very poshut. At least for me. [I was thinking of bringing R' Eli Weintraub into this discussion, because he was a similar person. He learned Chabad and would even mention the source"

Wientraub stop mentioning Chabad later in his life,not only did he not mention the later rebbes, who did the mitzva tanks, even the Alte Rebbe he cut out, he changed it all, to get a free pass from the greatest Maran of all Marans

RMS himself considered himself a talmid. You can verify this by asking other RYH talmidim and close confidants of RMS, Reb Dovid Cohen of Chevron and Reb Yehoshua Hartman of Har Nof (New Maharal), and others. Do you have reason to believe otherwise?

Aside for RMS being and employee of RYH in Bais Hatalmud, the two of them had a well known chavrusashaft for a short period of time from chatzos until vasikin. (I was told by a reliable source that it was in Kisvei Ari).

RMS was also a close friend of Reb Yonasan David, son in law of RYH. Indeed, RYD was maspid RMS last week in Beis Medrash Pachad Yitzchok, an uncommon occurrence in PY. An Israeli friend told me "The entire Rechov Hakablan was packed".

"Their Torahs aee wildly different"

True. As RYH used to say "Mir zenen nisht kein sedoim-bet oifen kup". RYH's talmidim come in all stripes and colors and often differ wildly in their approaches to Halacha, Hashkafa and Machshava. Some say this was his greatest attribute; being maamid talmidim in a way that allowed their max kishron to be extracted and not forcing them to conform to one single derech. (See Rav Gifters Hesped on RYH).

"RYH certainly did "have a Rebbi" in Toras Chabad in both the Rayat"z and Rama"sh, whom he learned with bechavrusa.

It is fair to say, that RYH, having been a study partner of the last two Lubavitcher Rebbe's was enough of an authority in Toras Chaba"d to give over to his Talmidim and for them to have a derech in it as well."

There is אמת and there is שקר. I have tried to learn תורה - all my life (I'm 68) . I have my opinions of what is אמת, and what is not. I am willing to discuss without another person. We can agree, or qe can disagree. This business of רבי - is always right, is for small children. Come on - grow up. Always remember that only the Pope - is infallibe.

Shalom. Let us all - try to grow uo. Talk like "MY REBBE IS ALWAYS RIGHT" - is childish. If we discuss a certain פסוק or מאמר חז״ל and differt intrpretations, what my Rebbe said, what your Rebbe said - it is very, very good. Throwing mud at each other - is bad. It shows that there is something wring in the נפש. HASHEM-please heal us.

"ואני אומר את זה בתור אחד משומעי לקחו של מו"ר הגה"ק מוו****** שליט"א"HE IS A PARTY ON HIS OWN, he is a libertarian, but it is still a partyevery parsha mens anti partyevery yom tov is anti partyevery yartziet is anti partythis thing went to his head and he is going beserk, you listen to his shiur, the first 15 to 20 minutes is fine , but the conclusion starts with the trance of eish hatorah eish hatorah......meshugazhe needs to be hospitalized,

As far as Xianity is cocerned. Those who admit that J. - is not G., no problem. The RCC, if שיתוף ו is מותר for a גוי, then- alo no problem. We go in the way of אברהם אבינו עליו השלום, fighting only ע״ז ג״ע ש״ד. So, חזק חזק חזק.

As far as the prolems caused by Reform גטים it's a bunch of nonsence. Hundreds of רבנים have to sign that their קידושין - is בטל ומבוטל. ושלןם על ישראל. Don't be like the elephant pulled by your trunk by a mouse. Use your strenth. Stop bring a למך׳ל.

רבי (212מנחם)138מענדל(194212+138+194=546546 is 26 times 21. This is the name of HASHEM, the יקוק - times שם אקוק. Thi means: "I will be(אקיק) GOD (יקוק). Also, 546 = יצחק, יעקב יוסף. Rhe point being that יצחק is 8 יקוק; and יעקב is 7 יקוק; and יוסף is 6 יקוק. This - is a מופת of the תורה. The grndfather- is 8 times. The father is 7 tines. The sin - is 6 times. Each time it goes diwn one (אברהם = 8 times שם אל =31,248; his so. יצחק is 8 times יקוק,208). ס It is the אר״י who aii this. It is a numerical miracle. It proves that the תורה - is rakkinf in numbers. In any case, רבי מנחם מענדל -׳=546 )׳( this is the גימטריא of מתוק, because - he was a very sweet person; it is akso the גינטריא of ישראל with the 5 letters; so that יצחק יעקב יוסף = ישראל). Meanwile, back at the ranch, the rebbe mamash's name (רבי מנחם מענדל) - contains his farher-in-law's 2 names- עוסף יצחק:

Now we write before about the number553 (remember?) so רבי מנחם מענדל with the 12 letters = 554. Or do it this way - זה רבי מנחם מענדל =554.

The komarna - writes that the בעש״ט taught his תלמידים to use only 1,000 words in יידיש, No more. For each onr of those words he gave a יחוד of one of HASHEM's names according to its numerical value. A real rebbe - only speaks in יחודים. To speak without a יחוד - is for him a sin. Like a simole Jew would drink water without making a ברכה. For example:A rebbe says: I want to go"In yiddish: איך וויל גיין.איך = 31. The numerical value of the name of HASHEM - אל is 31. This is what the thins when he says: איך.

וויל = 52. The numerical value of the name of HASHEM - יקוק when it is " filled out " with the letter ה׳, as follows: יוד קק וו קק - is 52.

גיין =73. The numerical value of the name of HASHEM when it is "filled out" with letter י׳ , as follows: יוד קי ויו קי, together with 1 for the כולל = 73.

When the Ropshitzer was very old, he stopped talking. His son, רבי אליעזר asked him why he had stopped talking. The Ropshitzer replied that all his life - he had spoken in in יחודים. In his old age - it was hard for him to think the Holy Names. Rherefore, he was silent.

I know some people - do not favor numbers, but don't blame that little old בעל גימטריא סme. Blame Pythagores, the אר״ י הקדוש and the בעש״ט השדוש.

In לקוטי שיחות - iit always says "במילא. The correct way - is ממילא. Why במילא??? It seems there a tradition from the בעש״ט - To do this. Maybe the כוונה is ב=2, and מילא = 82. 83 divded by2 = 41. 41 is the numerical vlalue of אם, mother. So, במילא - iis saying that there are 2 mothers - רחל ולאה. Listn guys its anumbers game. If you donot know this - you are standing outside of the baall park.

B"H I am not trying to convice anybody about anything. I do not think I havr that nale hormone in me. So, I di nit fight. If withmy wufe I di not fight. I an just giving over ideas. I do not fwel that these - are my ideas. I get messages frim רבי החמן and רבי מנחם. Sometimes - there is a glitch in the reansmissiom and a mistake

What do we mean when we say: "עוד נחמן חי״; or " עוד מנחם חי??? We know they stopped breathing. They were buryed. There as differance between הלכה death and קבלה death.

הלכהdeath - is decided by the חברא קדישא, then there is a מצוה to bury the מת. We know from near-death experiances, that there is a צינור. The soul - enters the צינור. Now , in that צינור , there is a - מחסום. If the soul passe through the מחסום - it cannot return to thus wold ( it can return only by גלגול) and the body starts decomposing. Before the מחסום - the soul can return and there is no decomosition. The soul of the צדיק comes to the מחסום and says : "I am not crossing over into יינער וועלט״. So, there he is. He is still - in this world. From the point of view oe the קבלה - he is still alive. This is why we say: ״ עוד נחמןחי״ and "עוד מנחם חי. We say " יחי אדונינו״ etcetera, because at any moment the soul of the צדיק - can decide to passoverinto the mext wold by crossing the zמחסום. Rebbe Nachman said "איך וילל בלייבין צוושין אייך״. אמן ואמןואמן So יעקב אבינו and רבי יהודה הנשיא and ננמ״ ח and His Majesty - the LR , are still with us . Some people are not too happy about it. Too bad. We know that theLR - רבי מנחם מעדל =546==יצחק יעקב יוסף. יצחק יוסף is his שווער. The LR himself - is בחינת יעקב. יעקב אבינו - לאמת.

There can be no כפירה - אמונה cannot "breath". There is no הבל without קין", no אברהם without נמרוד, no יצחק without ישמעאל, no יעקב without עשו, no יוסף without שמעון ולוי, no משה without דתן ואבירם, no דוד without שאול, no עם ישראל without גוים, no Judaism without Xianity and Bedlam, no חסידים without מתנגדים, no Breslov, Lubavitch, Belz without dasterdly Bashers, no Israelis without Palistineions. Therefore, לחיים and לחיים and לחיים. Eat children - eat. שבת שלום ומבורך.

The point is - the soul is in the pipe (it is not a pipe dream). The body - has not decompsed at all. So, at any moment the siul can re-enter the body. This is not תחית המתים. כי על פי הקבלה - הצדיק היה כל הזמן חי. יוסף חי, נחמן חי, מנחם חי, הרב כהנאחע. Stay tuned for futher developments.

Before he got on the wagon to travel to אומן to die there His Holiness, the BR - stood at the door of his בית מדרש, he put his hand on the מזוזה and said: אויב איהר וועט זיך האלטין צוזאמין- וועל איך צוריקקומין צו אייך. So either was that while still un the צינור, he would come join the תפילות in the breslov בית מדרש (his770) or he was that eventually when his soul re-enters his body - he will make his way back to that building in Breslov, the Ukraine (I think the original might still be standing, it qs burnt in RN time, but of it with the door and מזוזה ש was still חי וקיים) or he meant he would come to the קליוז the מרכז עולמי דחסידי ברסלב in ריוב סלנט 36,ירושלים עיר הקדוש, בית המדרש תורה ותפילה, בית הכנסת אור הנעלם. נחיה ונראה, אמן ואמן ואמן.

The date that RN said that - was ה׳ אייר תקע. At that momemt he was מכריז על הקמת מדינת הטויטער חסידים. It took 138 years )כמנין ״מנחם for the State of Israel to be establiloshed. וזה תלוי בזה והא בלא הא - לא מדעחת.

"רוב האדם הוא איש בעל מעלות נשגבות, ואם יש שם חסרונות ג"כ, נו נו"he knows alot, but he has major flaws, he is a mess,not too many people end up upstate like him, I know other people that know alot, and they are normal, he arrived to a stage,that his own kids disown him, and his closest talmid had to drop him....

Litvak"אמנם שמונים אחוז הם דברים יסודיים כשרוניים ומעניינים. "unfortunately the eish kodesh nonsense in his talks, is much more then 20 percent...its getting worse and worse...., you can vomit it .....I am no Aroni no Zali.... but this whole talk is sheer nonsense....yidishkiet, torah was never better then today,the Hungarian yeshivas needed some fixing, the level of havona was bad, I knew a lot of old people that learned day and night but had little comprehension, and reb itche know it too.

If oneCannot distingwishBetween torah And theoryThen oneIs a pure unadulteratedJackassI amSchneider the spidderI can spin theoriesDay and nightIf i took my theories seriouslyI would have to beCommited to bellvueHakl bairavon mugbalAny rabbi or rebbeWho takes his own words seriously100%And knows for sureThat god hasSpoken to himAnd causes his followersTo think soIs either moshe rabainuOr yushkeOr madhammadLet the buyerBeware

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About Me

א יונגערמאן אין עולם הזה trying to do what's right. The purpose of this blog was to provide a counter opinion to the Chabad bashing that is so prevalent in blogosphere. I hope I've accomplished that objective. This is the blog for you if you have a decent knowledge of Jewish history and current events.