burrito wrote:
another issue I'm seeing with the rating system is that there are clueless users and vendictive users as well. I have had in the past where I've sold an extension which works fine, but the user had so many other modules that one of the other ones actually removed part of my code, so mine wouldn't work. I had spent quite some time figuring out what was happening and had informed the user of the findings. He then said my extension was bad and wanted me to fix it... as I explained that I couldn't fix my extension but had to work on the other extension, it wasn't included in the free support he rated the extension at 1 star and got a refund.

It's fine that he thinks that way, but it would be good if a developer has the option to add an explanation to a (negative) rating.

That's exactly how Ebay Feedback system works. If the customers leave a bad feedback and he is not telling the truth, the vendor can always leave a (Short) comment to clear things up. And it works. I also like the fact that on Ebay you can see at glance the positive and negative feedback. Stars don't really mean much. What's 5 stars to you maybe 2 stars to me and you still don't know if in the end it was a positive or negative experience.

Over 95% of all computer problems can be traced back to the interface between the keyboard and the chair...

Furthermore to prevent silly games form buyers, they should be allow to feedback their experience with the particular product they purchased, only once, not every time they login. If they need further support or clarifications they can use the other channels available to them... But I can't stress enough how important it is not to delete any of the feedback that customers leave in the store.

Over 95% of all computer problems can be traced back to the interface between the keyboard and the chair...

I agree that feedback should not be removed.
Customers must be able (and encouraged) to leave feedback once. The seller can reply to the feedback.
Basically the eBay system. Maybe add a simple select field that shows the version of oc the buyer is using

I sent up a system so after i buyer buys an extension and 10 days later he is sent an email requesting to rate the extension based on:

1. how useful was the extension to your site
2. how easy was it to install the install
3. was the developer helpful

rate each one between 1 - 10

then the extensions can be rated based on the mean score?

Doing so will be considered as Spam at customers from the EC (European Community) - if the buyer has not explicite agreed to recieving such emails.
While your company is located in Hongkong, you could also be punished - so please be careful with such.

I sent up a system so after i buyer buys an extension and 10 days later he is sent an email requesting to rate the extension based on:

1. how useful was the extension to your site
2. how easy was it to install the install
3. was the developer helpful

rate each one between 1 - 10

then the extensions can be rated based on the mean score?

I am not so sure it will have the desired effect. There are simply too many clueless end users who'd buy anything that seems to look nice (I am thinking of web themes here), then add other extensions which then clash with the web theme because the latter was too incompatible with OpenCart standards. We might as well use the existing rating system for Opencart extensions.

The real issue still needs to be addressed: We need a better quality control to make sure 3rd party extensions don't clash with each other and abide by certain OpenCart code standards.

I really don't know, what to say, but one cannot just change a 'running' horse, without taking a
good chance, to fall out of the saddle, and get hurt bad. OC exist already, so, there is not much ROOM,
to fundamentally change the OC-Idea, as it has been mentioned above in several ways, without
dramatically expanding the 'bureaucratic' Setup behind OC.

I would start, where I feel, it is most important, from the viewpoint of a Visitor, coming here, to find answers.
Answers on VERSIONS, by Versions, but even on Github, one can never be sure, without making sure, to sure
have 'clicked' the correct Version. And this Version Change will keep on, to be the case, for every softwaremaker
in the world.

What I mean: This Place here should be spilt into fully independent Version (Sub-) Sections, to clearly
demonstrate the differences, Users should be fully aware, from the very first Reading here, where something has to belong, with possibly even REQUIRED Values, to be entered when posting, like at least Version and Theme used.

Active - New - Unread - Unanswerred Section Postings should be placed, where they belong, in a Subsection on those
Main Pages, starting from the latest Version, and going down to whatever will be decided on still to be shown. Then,
Visitors will not only be confronted with and admired by a professional looking Forum, they will get used to a more
professional way, to 'handle', whatever is related to the OC Project, in general.

Sections should exist, containing 'valuable' Information, like a Q/A, where 'general' Knowledge would be 'sampled'
and shown. For that, Visitors could LIKE-Click answers, and whoever get's the most Likes, has a better chance,
to get MOVED over to the Q/A Folder. Somebody could then selectively 'move' such Postings onto such Places,
once in a while.

Then, once in a Year, the 'Max'-Donator of Wisdom would be invited to have a free look over the HK Harbour, or something like that, or at least get's a free 'VIP' Ticket for my Club. So, at least, I would make a buck too..., on OC, after all

Something like this would be a relatively cheap way, to make this Place look much more professional, and transparent.
And Users will accept the fact, that certain kinds of Support and Services will and can not come for free, if they easy
find most important infos, to possibly solve their problems, before they require real assistance.

But first, just clean up, what needed to be cleaned up, a long time ago already. It's a rather painful experience, for so
many, if, what's written in the Books, does not match OC-Reality. It's hard enough, as it comes, and it leaves a very
mixed impression, if an owners manual does not match the real Thing, possibly even breaks a running system.

Daniel wrote:well maybe woocommerce over took us recently after WordPress bought it. although im not to sure of the stats. Woocomerce is a to basic bit and is slow. also even with all the caching WordPress does I find it super slow if you have a lot of content. its fine if u sell maybe under 20 products. I have even recommend woocommere to peopel before who just want a basic shop.

From a developer's perspective it is not so simple.

Yes, WooCommerce with turned on object caching is really 2-4 times slower than OpenCart. The generation of category page with 12 products takes nearly 80-100 ms for OpenCart and nearly 200-250 ms for WooCommerce on server with PHP5.6. On the server with PHP7.0 the same WooCommerce installation runs 2-3 times faster (page generation time is nearly 90-100 ms). It's a very good result.

On the other hand, the WooCommerce gives me an ability to create a product variations. I can create the combination of product options with a specified price and it's own image. OpenCart still doesn't have this important feature.

Another important feature is custom product fields (labels, for example). In WooCommerce I can create it in few minutes without any modification of WP or plugin's source code. If I need something more complex, I can use ACF or another plugin. It greatly saves the developer time. On OpenCart I need to reinvent the wheel each time when a client asks me to add some new fields. Yes, I can do some magic with attributes or add some new columns in product_description table, but it takes a lot of time and architecturally this is not the best solution.

But the greatest problem of OpenCart is the extensions system. Each ocmod/vqmod extension actually changing the source code of OpenCart. Yes, in 2.x version the event system was implemented, but it is not stable and it is very simple even in 2.2. For example, I want to add new filter for product list. It requires some changes of SQL query in getProducts method. I need to write yet another vqmod/ocmod file and pray that it does not affect some other modules, which may change the same query.

The most convenient way to solve this problem is to add some filters (events) in the method:

With this changes I can register some filters for my theme and implement new features without modifying the getProducts code. Also I can make some of them conditional and use it in another projects. The probability that some modules will not work correctly on new version or interfere with another is still exists, but it will be much smaller. WP/WooCommerce and a lot of other CMS are using the similar event/filter system. It is much flexible and maintainable than ocmod/vqmod.

We can resent that the developers make so many terrible themes, but they will do so again and again. The OpenCart doesn't offer the convenient solution for a lot of problems. The developers need to reinvent the wheel to implement a lot of regular features (theme settings pages, product custom fields, some conditional logic, blog functionality, single page checkout, product variations with their images, product filters, labels, etc). This takes a lot of time for developing and supporting.

Burt65 wrote:Furthermore to prevent silly games form buyers, they should be allow to feedback their experience with the particular product they purchased, only once, not every time they login. If they need further support or clarifications they can use the other channels available to them... But I can't stress enough how important it is not to delete any of the feedback that customers leave in the store.

I completely disagree...

If we do a feedback system, star rating needs to be linked with the comment.
And the review system needs to have partial star support in quarters at least. Otherwise ten 5 star ratings and one vindictive 1 star rating will bring you down to 4.6 which shows as 4 stars.

Also, as it happens on ebay as well, sometimes people review things in a heated mood and then later the seller (developer) might go above and beyond to resolve the situation and the customer wants to go back and improve the rating but now he can't. That won't fly.

We need a system like Android Marketplace or Amazon. One that lets you change your rating any time, but you need to have a comment with it to explain your reasoning, and that gets appended to your original review. The code within mods is ever changing with new versions, much like apps in the play store. It isn't a static product that can be reviewed one time. Version 1.0 may be bad but version 1.5 may be much better. But by that time, a bunch of 1 star reviews will be there and there is no way to restore credibility, even if the customers would be willing to upgrade their rating. So then you'll have people simply disabling the mod and relisting it, causing further confusion because when a mod is delisted currently, it also disabled the download to previous customers (which is bad) so then you'll get people who are just complaining they can't find their purchased mod because it was disabled and relisted.

Stars don't really mean much. What's 5 stars to you maybe 2 stars to me and you still don't know if in the end it was a positive or negative experience.

I think star rating are good for Movies or product ratings, but when you have a situation as complex as the purchase of an extension that includes: the real functionality of the extension, the quality of the extension, the quality of the developer support, the ongoing maintenance and support of the extension if required and the price of the extension, I think we need a bit more than 5 or 10 stars...

To be honest with you Qphoria, considering the changes that I have witness in the past 6 months in both the Opencart Store and the Community Forum, I can't help it feeling a bit hopeless about the whole exercise...

We have the tools, we have the power, we have the knowledge, but....

Over 95% of all computer problems can be traced back to the interface between the keyboard and the chair...

Take a look at your phone's app store or play store. Apps are all ranked by stars. Stars will absolutely make or break a sale. If you search "Offline CC" in opencart and you see 2, similar features, similar price.. but one has 5 stars and one has 2 stars.. which are you going to buy? It's absolutely a major factor.

Qphoria wrote:Take a look at your phone's app store or play store. Apps are all ranked by stars. Stars will absolutely make or break a sale. If you search "Offline CC" in opencart and you see 2, similar features, similar price.. but one has 5 stars and one has 2 stars.. which are you going to buy? It's absolutely a major factor.

Well, I might be wrong but for start, I don't charge people money and/or have legal obligations, with the app that I could buy for my phone.

But I can tell you right now that when I buy an extension or a theme in the Opencart store I look at the star rating system in a completely different way.

What I look for is:

1) the numbers of sales compare to the number of vote compared to the number of comment.

If I see any major discrepancy between these 3 figures, I normally move on...

An extension with 5 stars, 100+ sales and only 10 comments, doesn't look good to me.

An extension with 5 stars, 20 sales and 20 comments of which the majority are negative, doesn't look good to me.

An extension with 5 stars, 100+ sales and the last comment reply from the developer older than six months, while customers still asking for help in the comment, again doesn't look good to me...

An extension with 5 stars 100+ sales and 100+ comments of which the majority are people constantly asking for fixes, doesn't look good to me.

An extension with 5 stars where comments are constantly delete and only the good ones are kept, doesn't look good to me.

2) I also look and take in consideration the presentation, the description, the documentation and the price. This last five, (including the deleting comments), alone, can tell you a lot about the professionalism of the developer.

And I can tell you right now, that I'm not the only one going through this mental exercise every time a decision has to be made regarding the purchase of an extension/module/theme from the OC store

Like I said, the star rating alone in this "environment" don't really mean squat, to me, especially when a little mistake in judgment in buying the wrong extension/theme for my shop could ended up costing me a fortune in sales and legal fees...

Over 95% of all computer problems can be traced back to the interface between the keyboard and the chair...

I think Opencart definitely needs to move to plugin architecture, event driven system, and a nicer MVC implementation which has now become the standard for web and it doesn't have to be from scratch it can just adopt a framework. And I'd love to be part of something like this.

Can I add my ideas here from a user?
I'm not a professional but with OC for 4 years. I love its simple and easy-going features.
I could get helps and almost the solutions from OC forum.
HOWEVER I have my headache - finding a good and reliable theme!

I am willing to pay a good theme. Actually I've paid two themes before.
One refused to upgrade his theme to V1.5 after one year use!
The other, Dresscode from themeforest, (like Qphoria said) changing the fundamental OC files,
making ONLY itself good but causing OC default theme to display in ERRORS!

May I suggest Daniel to open a new column in his website or the forum, saying, Certified OC Modules?
Any commercial modules can request their products listing in this column. But the listings are accomplished
ONLY after the listings passing the test by a group of OC professionals.

Any charge for the testing may come from the application of commercial designers or the commission from
the successful module purchasing in future.
The advantages for the Certified OC Modules will benefit any party involved in the long run.

1. To OC users, OC is the first in first place to be trusted. Thus the users are most willing to pay OC
recommended modules, instead of wasting lots of time, money and energy to search elsewhere.
2. To commercial designers, OC website and the forum are of course the best places to promote their OC products.
They should target their designs and make the designs better for use.
3. To OC and OC wonderful professional supporters, it's reasonable to have the commissions after issuing a
certified product and keeping it on OC's track.