I normally play JA SP on the Jedi difficulty setting and when I see a boss or a reborn master rather I usually go toe to toe with them in saber combat and even though at times they can seem to break right through your defense somehow I usually still win. I turned up the difficulty setting to Jedi Knight and I'm like WTF? Everytime I walk up to a reborn master and I just slash once or throw a flurry of attacks he will so easily dodge it or he'll just move his lightsaber ever so slightly and cut me in half! Or he'll do some other fancy move I can't do and end up killing me instantly. A little help please with beating the crap out of reborn masters and bosses on Jedi Knight difficulty?

Your auto-blocking is in vain! Only SP source code modification can allow you to block my desann-style attacks without being staggered now!

Please? All I'm asking is if someone could give me some tips on breaking through their defences and avoiding their super fast counter attacks. That's why their so hard because they're attacks are much faster than normal.

Your auto-blocking is in vain! Only SP source code modification can allow you to block my desann-style attacks without being staggered now!

What I do is use force protect (sometimes in combination with force speed and force absorb). Then I TRY to do either the overhead slash if in red single stance or the crouch + forward + attack move when either in dual, staff, or blue stance. These are usually barrier breaking moves that let you get a nice chunk out of their health. Then I back up, recharge my force and go in again.

Most of the time I don't use force in SP except absorb. When the Reborn Masters get all gay with protect and heal though the I go dark rage on them but other than that I only really use absorb I just try and beat them with solid saber combat without speed, protect, rage and all that other stuff and when the game is on Jedi difficulty I can go up to Reborn Masters and Alora with duals and tavion ect. and go toe to toe with them without really using force powers and win with a good chunk of health left. I turned it up to Jedi Knight difficulty and when I tryed to go toe to toe with the dark masters it was a living nightmare! All their attacks were super fast, all their attacks, parries, parry breaks, counters and counter attacks were all so fast which allows for them to easily just slit your throat while your open. I mean all their attacks when on Jedi Knight difficulty are at superspeed! There saber is a blur! Whats realy annoying is that I'll have hit them 5-8 times and they still won't die while if they get 1-2 solid hits on me I'm dead (it sucks how Reborn Masters have 200 health and bosses like alora have 500).

EDIT:Oh yeah, by the way I'm mostly a staff user. And Tinny (or whoevers read this) try starting a new game or running a current game on Jedi Knight difficulty and spawn a reborn master (make sure you have level 3 jump, saber offense, defense and all that) then run up and go toe to toe with him and use only absorb, push, pull and force jump and you'll see what I'm talking about. And when I say toe to toe I don't mean run in, hit him, then run away. I mean constantly hack and slash him without backing down or running away with occasional evasive maneuvers.

Your auto-blocking is in vain! Only SP source code modification can allow you to block my desann-style attacks without being staggered now!

You see I can easily spam protect and speed to beat the masters but that doesn't help me get any better now does it? You may not know this but even on Jedi Knight difficulty but it's possible to beat the Reborn Masters in toe-to-toe saber combat without using anything but absorb and your lightsaber. It's very hard but it's not impossible. I've done it numerous times (and lost numerous times also), so Zat maybe your the one who's not very good at this game. My goal is to be able to practice and get good enough to do that over and over again without losing. And Tinny, thx for the advice when every here and there I don't feel like trying to beat them the hard way, I just do that. And to Zat again, the guy with the green saber is me and the guy wearing the gas mask is you.... .........this is what you look like 5 minutes later:

Your auto-blocking is in vain! Only SP source code modification can allow you to block my desann-style attacks without being staggered now!

When you go toe-to-toe with them you are just being overly aggressive and forgetting about defensive meassures. You may not want to back down sometimes but it is nessesary especially if you don't use that much force. You can try using more heal and drain to make up for the damage you take. The reborn masters have a more powerful class and saber for themselves. If you want to see what I mean make an npc with the class reborn master or even desann and then use thier saber and spawn one and take it on. You'll fare much better.

When you go toe-to-toe with them you are just being overly aggressive and forgetting about defensive meassures. You may not want to back down sometimes but it is nessesary especially if you don't use that much force. You can try using more heal and drain to make up for the damage you take. The reborn masters have a more powerful class and saber for themselves. If you want to see what I mean make an npc with the class reborn master or even desann and then use thier saber and spawn one and take it on. You'll fare much better.

The thing is though right now I'm using the Escape from Yavin IV mod which redoes a lot of the sabers, you can pickup up lightsabers from fallen enemies and each saber has different stats. The single-using reborn masters use the desann saber which has +1s in certain areas which isn't much at all. And it seems nearly impossible to get an attack on them because they use fast style (the mod redoes some npcs) and their attacks are already faster in the first place. Besides the way I fight them is I go toe-to-toe and then I might back off and then come back for more (even bosses and reborn masters runaway from you sometimes like the Reborn Masters jump and roll away from me a lot). The problem is they seem to have better saber defense because they usually can automatically counter and then attack instantly. But since this isn't really getting us anywhere I'm going to have a look around at the npc and sab files for the mod and the default ones that come with JA. I'm going to try and figure out why their attacks are so freaking fast. I am overly aggressive sometimes. When I have the game on Jedi difficulty I can go toe to toe with the masters with occasional defensive maneuvers and win with a good chunk of health left but Jedi Knight difficulty is more complicated.

Your auto-blocking is in vain! Only SP source code modification can allow you to block my desann-style attacks without being staggered now!

I did it! I figured out how to beat them in close quarter combat. The reason they seem to always be able to do instant counters and be able to break through defenses so easily is because if your being aggressive and doing nonstop attacks and atleast in SP when your not attacking and holding your saber up its a lot easier to block attacks. Its hard to put in words exactly how to beat them. just basically don't be very aggressive and right when they attack time it just right and slice through them, the reason the masters can hit you so easily when your being aggressive is because them being masters and all they can easily time an slice you when your in the process of finishing an attack and starting a new one. This tactic takes alittle bit to get the hang of but its effective. Soon you'll be a master of toe-to-toe SP saber combat. You wont need any force powers besides absorb to beat reborn masters in toe to toe combat. Right now I have saber damage turned way up so its one hit kills but it should still work.

Your auto-blocking is in vain! Only SP source code modification can allow you to block my desann-style attacks without being staggered now!

Trust me, when i was playing i did defeat them without forcepowers, but i thogh the speed would help you get pass them, for i missread you post. But as i play now, you would probaly defeat me with no bigger problem

I use to wonder why they could break through your defenses so easily, but now I have discovered that most of the time they arent but rather timing their slices almost perfectly to hit you while your open though. But if you stop being really aggressive and just use their tactic against them effienciently along with standing still and holding up your saber at times (you'll have much better defense then if you were attacking) and doing occasional evasive maneuvers you'll be able to win easily in toe-to-toe combat and sometimes, you'll find that the masters will be runing away from you if you can master the tactics above. And also Zat, I'm sorry I reacted so harshly.

Your auto-blocking is in vain! Only SP source code modification can allow you to block my desann-style attacks without being staggered now!

If your playing with a mouse, bind your best powers to keys that your fingers can reach without having to pause from fighting them.

I use the arrow keys, and I binded/bound (not sure how one would say that) force push and pull to the Number pad on the right side of the keyboard, which my left hand can easily reach (for me, I don't mind having to reach over to cast protect and absorb, as long as my enemy isn't in my face).

I used to frown upon using force powers, thinking it was kind of cheap, but when I was saying this I was playing in the mp map Imperial Control room just spawning reborn and stuff.

After playing MB2 some, and playing the new duel_vjun map for it based off your SP duel with Rosh, and I looked out the windows of the map, seeing how high up you were in the throne room, and thought it looked cool. Especially since I seemed to remember the windows of that room being blacked out in SP.

I had to go back and see for myself, and I loaded up vjun3, and fought ym way through it. I died several times, not having the killer instinct to unleash my force power, thinking it was *gasp* cheap.

I had forgotten how ingeniously Raven designed their levels, and how map-placed NPCs were so much tougher than spawned ones, having waypoints that actually allow them to move, and scripts to give them twice as complex behavioral patterns.

So Force powers are good and fair (except I think level 3 buff powers like speed, protect, and rage are too easily used to defeat bosses), and actually I'll admit I play with unlimited force power, and G_sabermorerealistic 1 on, which makes certain enemies easier to defeat, hence my saber having a 90% chance to kill them in one quick swipe, or one clean critical hit if a saberist.

I never got around to taking off the force, maybe I will tonight.

Anyways, if you want to speculate or borrow from my knowledge of the SP sabering system itself, this is your topic, I'd be happy to discuss pure Saber SP fighting techniques (except for hit and run tactics, we all know how to do that).

I've found out a little bit more about the SP saber system since I last posted.

Even though I knew this a while ago, in SP, Duals and Staff possess more raw power than single saber does. And strong style doesn't count, that didn't even exist in the movies, Vader used more of a desann style, with the exception he sometimes wielded his saber two-handed.

If you run up to a reborn with a staff, you will easily overpower him (except if it's a reborn master, but they have huge sabers and parry bonuses), if he's in anything but strong style, and even if he is in strong style, you will easily break his guard and stagger *cough* "stab" *cough* him. Kind of the same thing for duals.

However, as the player, you can further exploit single sabers versatality, it has the best special attacks, and it has a kata that you can perform while moving, plus you can either have MAX offense with strong, if you can hit with it, and a absoluely seamless balster bolt defense with fast style (Duals and Staff are almost as seamless, but not quite as good).

And if you and your opponet are both wielding single, and you are both using either fast style or medium style, align your style with your opponets, medium style can block medium style exceptionally, while fast can block fast exceptionally (fast can block anything well). When you are both in the same stance, you will find yourselves parrying and staggering eachother a lot.

When fighting Reborn_new, they tend to parry you a lot, seeing as they are the only saberists in the game with level 3 saber attributes. You actually parry them about the same amount, but it always seems as though they parry/stagger you more. The reborn masters are also tough in this fashion, but they don't stop at blocking well, they're more devilish than that.

Reborn masters, no matter what stance they're in, will imediately start auto-combing you using fast style swipes (they can do this no matter what kind of saber they wield) once you get in close, and if you lose yourself open a lot, eventually they'll get a hit, and sometimes, being slashed staggers you, and if your staggering and can't move by the time they do they're second auto-slice, your done for, that is if the first slice didn't get you.

I don't encourage hit and run play too much, you don't always have to take the pressure off your opponets, it's very fun to try and go toe-to-toe with tougher enemies and even bosses.

Also some tips for using Force Push on enemies that are well-adapted to resisting it. Push them while they or in the air, on reborn_new, it may knock them down, any tougher and they will only fly backwards, but it still works.
Sometimes you can knock down reborn with push, while 60% of the time they resist it with ease.

Try to gauge moments when the reborn are doing certain maneuvers that in real life would make them easily pushed over while doing so. Sometimes when they're running at you you can push them over, or when they're doing a swing. They can still resist during those actions, but you eventually can develop an instinct for when they're open for knockdown via force power. It also helps to have your crosshair on them while while pushing.

I find that when fighting reborn masters, you must be on your guard with force absorb when they start using lightning or grip. They unfortunately have the ability to cheat by healing, using force rage, and shoot you with lightning. They shouldn't have an unlimited amount of force power!

When you do go against them, once they start using heal, then you must go all out attack against them to take advantage while they're weak.

I only cheat when I play nowadays, like turning notarget on and using Jawas with guns to shoot everything for me...anyway...

Get your Force Grip up ASAP, and if you're by a ledge hurl them off and watch them die. :P

If you really want to fight, then just use Force Speed to put you on an equal playing field. Draw them into a contained area and use special moves to damage them. Or you can just avoid them until you see an opening and go in for the kill. When they use lightning, just get your HP back by draining them or lightning them right back.

Another thing...

Don't upgrade Force Drain, leave it at level 1. Then go right up to the Reborn and you can suck him dry a little bit, and he'll try to Force Push you. Immediately pull out your saber and cut him before he can do anything. Force Drain 1 is, in many scenarios, more effective than 2 or 3 because if you're not close enough it will simply grab the stuff from a distance rather than trap the enemy.

Hope this helps, I've spent WAY to much time on JA, and I'm sick to death of playing it the right way because it's too easy. Mods are good too.