Gokarts are the best handling vehicles there are.... Is that what you mean?

I think Ford has just come out with exactly the vehicle I want... It's about time they started getting serious about using the non-US cars here. That's really the only way they're gonna stick it to Toyonda... I also like that they made all their front ends look like Aston Martins.

fsbilly:cgraves67: It handles like a go-kart and has terrible road noise.

Gokarts are the best handling vehicles there are.... Is that what you mean?

I think Ford has just come out with exactly the vehicle I want... It's about time they started getting serious about using the non-US cars here. That's really the only way they're gonna stick it to Toyonda... I also like that they made all their front ends look like Aston Martins.

What I mean by go kart handling is that it is shortwheelbased and the steering turns from lock to lock in very few turns. The suspension isn't remarkable by any means except it has a fairly decent weight allowance in the back.

Shazam999:Big_Thumb: That's the Transit Connect wagon. It's a refresh of the one you see delivering flowers and drycleaning.It's a fair bit smaller than the current minivans from Chrysler, Honda and Nissan. It's got either a 2.5L four or a 1.6L turbo and 6 speed automatic.

The E-series is being replaced by the full size Transit, which is the same size as the Sprinter.

Hmm, aren't the Transits already here? I've seen a few on the roads already.

The new fullsize Transits will be introduced in 2013 as the 2014 model year. There might be a few pre-production models roaming around, but I doubt it.

Big_Thumb:Shazam999: Big_Thumb: That's the Transit Connect wagon. It's a refresh of the one you see delivering flowers and drycleaning.It's a fair bit smaller than the current minivans from Chrysler, Honda and Nissan. It's got either a 2.5L four or a 1.6L turbo and 6 speed automatic.

The E-series is being replaced by the full size Transit, which is the same size as the Sprinter.

Hmm, aren't the Transits already here? I've seen a few on the roads already.

The new fullsize Transits will be introduced in 2013 as the 2014 model year. There might be a few pre-production models roaming around, but I doubt it.

[www.glassguide.co.uk image 320x240]

Ah, they're already here in Canada, doesn't seem they've made their way to the USA yet.

Take the AMG badge off and its just another MB. No one would give it a second look.

Also this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkLATjo6Oyo

That's pretty cool, but that's an Audi and a Benz. What I'm talking about is a *minivan from Dodge* than could potentially do 0-60 under 5 seconds, for around $30-35K. That thing in your other pic lists for >$50K in the starter edition and comes with a side order of douche and a biatchy trophy wife.

All American muscle, man!!! cheap, sturdy, DIY, you can make it go like a raped ape! Flags, barbecue, rocknroll, America fark yeah! Dodge is officially selling a muscle minivan and oh god do i want one.

Take the AMG badge off and its just another MB. No one would give it a second look.

In my own personal view (YMMV) anything that looks that fast in a still picture could never be a sleeper :) I'd be willing to bet that the non-AMG versions would outperform most late model "muscle" cars.

And yeah. I'd cruise it. With or without the AMG package.

Got a guy at work trying to sell me his 400E with a bad trans, and I'm having a hard time saying no.

Also in regards to sleeper status: number of times i have been pulled over in my caravan: 2 Number of times I was pulled over in my farking awesome 85 Cutlass sleeper*12sQM 0-60 in 7, 84 million ft/lbs of torque, hahaha Mr I'm driving an Eclipse I smoked your ass* (in mid 2000s FYI I am not an old) ? once a month. minimum.

Take the AMG badge off and its just another MB. No one would give it a second look.

Also this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkLATjo6Oyo

That's pretty cool, but that's an Audi and a Benz. What I'm talking about is a *minivan from Dodge* than could potentially do 0-60 under 5 seconds, for around $30-35K. That thing in your other pic lists for >$50K in the starter edition and comes with a side order of douche and a biatchy trophy wife.

All American muscle, man!!! cheap, sturdy, DIY, you can make it go like a raped ape! Flags, barbecue, rocknroll, America fark yeah! Dodge is officially selling a muscle minivan and oh god do i want one.

Are we still talking about the audi?

Seriously though, I realize the MB is prohibitively expensive.

Also, for 35K you could buy a Subaru outback with pretty much all the options. Which is more than you need in a reliable, comfortable, practical vehicle that holds its value. Unlike the dodge, which holds its value about as well as a sieve holds water.

dahmers love zombie:Earpj: dahmers love zombie: My first minivan was an '01 Windstar. Drove that thing to death (175K miles) then went to get another one. They'd replaced it with the Freestar or some such shiat. Plastic everywhere, ugly as sin. We went running for an Odyssey. Got it in '06, it's still running without complaint at 170K+, and it's a HELL of a lot nicer looking than that monstrosity.

I've had a Nissan Quest (92), Chrysler Town and Country(01), and a Honda Odyssey (05).I just traded in my Odyssey for a 5 seater car, since kids have gone off to college and I don't need to seat as many and the extra 10 mpg is nice.

I LOVED my Odyssey. It is a great van. (I kinda miss it)

One of my favorite videos is this one, pitting a Dodge Charger Daytona against an '06 Odyssey filled with strippers. The Honda mops the floor with the Dodge.

That was kind of retarded. Take a 40 year old muscle car, and not even one of the greatest ones (in either looks or performance), and compare it to a modern V6, on a course specifically designed to play against the ancient muscle car? I was expecting an Odyssey against a modern Charger Daytona, which would curbstomp the minivan on any course.

Also in regards to sleeper status: number of times i have been pulled over in my caravan: 2 Number of times I was pulled over in my farking awesome 85 Cutlass sleeper*12sQM 0-60 in 7, 84 million ft/lbs of torque, hahaha Mr I'm driving an Eclipse I smoked your ass* (in mid 2000s FYI I am not an old) ? once a month. minimum.

Heh I can imagine...used to have a '85 Z-28. That car was f'n cop magnet. Then I got a 95 Jetta (less than 1 second slower 0-60 and 1/4 times stock, kind of sad statement to make, and cheaper insurance) cops barely looked at me. Learned a very valuable lesson then.

Also, for 35K you could buy a Subaru outback with pretty much all the options. Which is more than you need in a reliable, comfortable, practical vehicle that holds its value. Unlike the dodge, which holds its value about as well as a sieve holds water.

yabbut the boxer engine is already turbocharged and whatnot and hits ~6sec on 0-60. thats pretty great for a mom-mobile but there's not much more room to improve. CAI and computer kit might get you sub 6 but who the fark knows. nad its a boxer powerplant, bleah.

Caravan has a stock V6 that doesFWIW the Sube WRX definitely fits the category but is in no way a sleeper, or capable of hauling sheetrock. Did you know the Caravan is exactly 8'6"x 4'1" when you remove the seats?

it's the little things that matter. And the farking Pentastar V6. that thing is going to be a classic powerplant.

Ford has been selling their version of an oversized Scion xB for a few years. at about 3X the price of the xB. one of the car magazines had an article a few years ago, Ford execs actually thought their Oversized version of the Scion xB at 3X the price was going to be the next 1964 1/2 Mustang, putting them at the top of the world in automobile manufacturing / sales once more. Arseholes.

I love how that thing makes such a huge noise and then basically takes off at walking speed. Despite the huge boost, the transmission and suspension are still going to mosey that heap along to a blistering 10 second 0-60, and a mind bending 19 second quarter mile.

Maybe once he got better tires, that thing would be almost as fast as a 14 year old on a BMX bike. Almost.

dahmers love zombie:Earpj: dahmers love zombie: My first minivan was an '01 Windstar. Drove that thing to death (175K miles) then went to get another one. They'd replaced it with the Freestar or some such shiat. Plastic everywhere, ugly as sin. We went running for an Odyssey. Got it in '06, it's still running without complaint at 170K+, and it's a HELL of a lot nicer looking than that monstrosity.

I've had a Nissan Quest (92), Chrysler Town and Country(01), and a Honda Odyssey (05).I just traded in my Odyssey for a 5 seater car, since kids have gone off to college and I don't need to seat as many and the extra 10 mpg is nice.

I LOVED my Odyssey. It is a great van. (I kinda miss it)

One of my favorite videos is this one, pitting a Dodge Charger Daytona against an '06 Odyssey filled with strippers. The Honda mops the floor with the Dodge.

Slaves2Darkness:Aww look the current crop of parents wants to still think they are cool so no calling anything a mini-van or station wagon.

Face it you are just a taxi service for your crotch dropping.

We had a small SUV (Saturn VUE) before our second crotch fruit arrived, but the rear seats were so small that we couldn't fit a rear facing car seat, and still fit someone in the front passenger seat. So after a search we went with the vehicle with the most utility, and bang for our buck; the Kia Sedona. We didn't pay ten grand more to get a mini van from Honda or Toyota that tries to pretend that it's not a minivan. The Sedona is ugly. We bought a new 2011, and I don't think they've changed the body for ten years. But as a crotch fruit mover, the thing is fantastic. If your going to have three or more kids, just give up the idea of looking cool. You're a breeder, and everyone knows it. You're not going to look any cooler driving your brood around in something like a suburban. Just give it up and get the minivan; nothing beats it for utility.

KrispyKritter:Ford has been selling their version of an oversized Scion xB for a few years. at about 3X the price of the xB. one of the car magazines had an article a few years ago, Ford execs actually thought their Oversized version of the Scion xB at 3X the price was going to be the next 1964 1/2 Mustang, putting them at the top of the world in automobile manufacturing / sales once more. Arseholes.

Wut

The Transit Connect was brought over as a commercial vehicle. Most of them only had front seats and no rear side windows, though some were used as taxis or mobility vehicles. They were never intended to be a blockbuster in any way, just an alternative to the much larger E series panel vans.

I still can't believe Mazda sold any of these ever. I just now found out it's considered a minivan. That Ford thing is way more huge. Just call that a van.

We have the Mazda5, and love it. The smaller-than-fullsize-minivan aspect is a plus. It's easy to park, great on gas, and yeah, way cheaper to buy. For a compact package, it seats six, which is great. Honestly, if Americans didn't reflexively flinch at having their ego suffer at the idea of owning a "station wagon" we'd have more of these "bigger than a sedan, smaller than a giganto-"mini-van" options.

"Minivan". The things that are called that aren't "mini" at all.

GAT_00:Mock the Cube for style all you want, but after sitting in one wow is it roomy and it has a fantastic field of vision.

I rented a Cube once, loved it for the same reasons, but had a couple of drawbacks. Wind noise due to the shape and lack of insulation (which is a reasonable compromise in weight and price for noise reduction, but it was pretty loud), and the verticality of the side windows caused them to reflect all the headlights around you on the freeway or at intersections. All other cars with slanted windows reflect lights downward, not back at you.

Its just a glorified station wagon. A way for breeders to haul their crotchfruit around.

In the 1960s and 70s, it was called a "station wagon".

That became very uncool, so in the '80s they started calling them "minivans".

They became uncool, so in the '90s they called them "SUVs".

Then because of the gas crunch, they created a new line of smaller station wagons, and called them "crossovers".

Bottom line, its still just a station wagon.

Unless you have ever driven a Buick Roadmaster Station Wagon you have no idea... I spent a summer working at a car dealership in the service department. I had to bring a customers Roadmaster out front and let me tell you. A 1 ton dually jacked crew cab pickup feels not as massive as the behemoth. It was actually awe inspiring.

StopLurkListen:madgonad: My wife has a Mazda 5, but I drive it plenty. It is a winning formula for an inexpensive family vehicle.

We call it the tinyvan, since it is built on the Mazda3 frame. It is dwarfed by Odysseys.

cjmook21: [www.hybridcars.com image 502x268]

I still can't believe Mazda sold any of these ever. I just now found out it's considered a minivan. That Ford thing is way more huge. Just call that a van.

We have the Mazda5, and love it. The smaller-than-fullsize-minivan aspect is a plus. It's easy to park, great on gas, and yeah, way cheaper to buy. For a compact package, it seats six, which is great. Honestly, if Americans didn't reflexively flinch at having their ego suffer at the idea of owning a "station wagon" we'd have more of these "bigger than a sedan, smaller than a giganto-"mini-van" options.

"Minivan". The things that are called that aren't "mini" at all.

GAT_00: Mock the Cube for style all you want, but after sitting in one wow is it roomy and it has a fantastic field of vision.

I rented a Cube once, loved it for the same reasons, but had a couple of drawbacks. Wind noise due to the shape and lack of insulation (which is a reasonable compromise in weight and price for noise reduction, but it was pretty loud), and the verticality of the side windows caused them to reflect all the headlights around you on the freeway or at intersections. All other cars with slanted windows reflect lights downward, not back at you.

A little known fact, you might think the Mazda 5 is small, but it is actually a tiny bit bigger than the original Dodge Caravan back in the 80s. Minivans have been bulking-up over the last 25 years.

GAT_00:tnpir: Yeah, that's pretty bad. Of course, it STILL doesn't hold a candle to this monstrosity:

[codinghorror.typepad.com image 354x232]

I've said it before, I'll say it again: I liked the Aztec.

The vehicle that put the Pontiac brand out of business? (The Pontiac Aztek, specifically the 2001 model, graces many bad car lists. And it's often cited as the car that led to the manufacturer's demise.)