I don't really care what the verdict is, I just want to see some good legal wrangling. The judge sounds level-headed, the prosecutor and defense are both pros, and unless there's someone with an axe to grind on the jury, chances are good they'll arrive at a verdict. That ends well.

Ow! That was my feelings!:So, what are the Vegas odds of a murder2 conviction? 10-1? 50-1? Murder 2 is a bridge too far and he is gonna walk because Prosecutors, under political pressure, overcharged him.

As I've said before, I'm just glad that the criminal justice system is handling it. This is not a country where we shoot first and never ask questions.

Yes, a broken nose and bleeding wounds to the back of the head are "superficial". Let me guess, you think Zimmerman was obligated to wait until he suffered a skull fracture before defending himself, right?

Each thread brings in new information, including this bit of humor FTA:

[Zim attorney] O'Mara said he would have liked to have found someone who could testify that it was Zimmerman screaming for help but evaluating the call was impossible.

I just love the idea of a defense attorney talking about what he'd like. Johnny Cochran: "Boy, would I love to have an uninterrupted two-hour video of O.J. watch TV while those people were being killed."

Yes, a broken nose and bleeding wounds to the back of the head are "superficial". Let me guess, you think Zimmerman was obligated to wait until he suffered a skull fracture before defending himself, right?

Hey look, the people that know absolutely nothing about the case are here to make assumptions.

Friend, a random citizen took it upon himself to follow a kid around in armed pursuit in a vehicle and then on foot. The target didn't know if he was going to be raped or kidnapped or stabbed or shot in the chest from a few inches away.

But I suppose you wouldn't consider it starting a fight if someone did the same thing to you.

gimmegimme:Friend, a random citizen took it upon himself to follow a kid around in armed pursuit in a vehicle and then on foot. The target didn't know if he was going to be raped or kidnapped or stabbed or shot in the chest from a few inches away.

A concerned citizen, who happened to be armed, reported a suspicious person to the police and then attempted to regain sight of that person after they fled. The suspicious person then launched a violent assault on the citizen, leading the concerned citizen to pull their legally carried firearm and defend them self from great bodily harm or possibly death.

Popcorn Johnny:A concerned citizen, who happened to be armed, reported a suspicious person to the police and then attempted to regain sight of that person after they fled. The suspicious person then launched a violent assault on the citizen, leading the concerned citizen to pull their legally carried firearm and defend them self from great bodily harm or possibly death

Popcorn Johnny:gimmegimme: Friend, a random citizen took it upon himself to follow a kid around in armed pursuit in a vehicle and then on foot. The target didn't know if he was going to be raped or kidnapped or stabbed or shot in the chest from a few inches away.

A concerned citizen, who happened to be armed, reported a suspicious person to the police and then attempted to regain sight of that person after they fled. The suspicious person then launched a violent assault on the citizen, leading the concerned citizen to pull their legally carried firearm and defend them self from great bodily harm or possibly death.

I ask out of genuine curiosity. What would be your reaction if, the next time you're walking through your neighborhood, you notice someone rolling alongside you in a car and then they begin to follow you on foot?

gimmegimme:Popcorn Johnny: gimmegimme: Compared to a gunshot wound to the chest?

Yes.

Maybe Zimmy shouldn't have started a fight he couldn't finish...

Hey look, the people that know absolutely nothing about the case are here to make assumptions.

Friend, a random citizen took it upon himself to follow a kid around in armed pursuit in a vehicle and then on foot. The target didn't know if he was going to be raped or kidnapped or stabbed or shot in the chest from a few inches away.

But I suppose you wouldn't consider it starting a fight if someone did the same thing to you.

no, i wouldnt be wearing a goddamn hoody slinking through a rich neighbourhood at night IN THE SUMMER. that spells disaster, always has, always will.

gimmegimme:Popcorn Johnny: gimmegimme: Friend, a random citizen took it upon himself to follow a kid around in armed pursuit in a vehicle and then on foot. The target didn't know if he was going to be raped or kidnapped or stabbed or shot in the chest from a few inches away.

A concerned citizen, who happened to be armed, reported a suspicious person to the police and then attempted to regain sight of that person after they fled. The suspicious person then launched a violent assault on the citizen, leading the concerned citizen to pull their legally carried firearm and defend them self from great bodily harm or possibly death.

I ask out of genuine curiosity. What would be your reaction if, the next time you're walking through your neighborhood, you notice someone rolling alongside you in a car and then they begin to follow you on foot?

it wouldnt be to turn around and beat the hell out of my follower, thats for damn sure.

Livingroom:gimmegimme: Popcorn Johnny: gimmegimme: Compared to a gunshot wound to the chest?

Yes.

Maybe Zimmy shouldn't have started a fight he couldn't finish...

Hey look, the people that know absolutely nothing about the case are here to make assumptions.

Friend, a random citizen took it upon himself to follow a kid around in armed pursuit in a vehicle and then on foot. The target didn't know if he was going to be raped or kidnapped or stabbed or shot in the chest from a few inches away.

But I suppose you wouldn't consider it starting a fight if someone did the same thing to you.

no, i wouldnt be wearing a goddamn hoody slinking through a rich neighbourhood at night IN THE SUMMER. that spells disaster, always has, always will.

February is summer for you? Do you live in the Southern Hemisphere?

Livingroom:gimmegimme: Popcorn Johnny: gimmegimme: Friend, a random citizen took it upon himself to follow a kid around in armed pursuit in a vehicle and then on foot. The target didn't know if he was going to be raped or kidnapped or stabbed or shot in the chest from a few inches away.

A concerned citizen, who happened to be armed, reported a suspicious person to the police and then attempted to regain sight of that person after they fled. The suspicious person then launched a violent assault on the citizen, leading the concerned citizen to pull their legally carried firearm and defend them self from great bodily harm or possibly death.

I ask out of genuine curiosity. What would be your reaction if, the next time you're walking through your neighborhood, you notice someone rolling alongside you in a car and then they begin to follow you on foot?

it wouldnt be to turn around and beat the hell out of my follower, thats for damn sure.

gimmegimme:I ask out of genuine curiosity. What would be your reaction if, the next time you're walking through your neighborhood, you notice someone rolling alongside you in a car and then they begin to follow you on foot?

Trayvon never knew he was being followed on foot, he took off running around a corner before Zimmerman exited his vehicle.

As for your question. I'm 6'2, 210 pounds and very capable of defending myself. If I was walking home from the store and suddenly thought I was being followed, or even chased and was in fear for my life, here's what I would do. First I would take off running, calling 911 at the same time. I would also be shouting my ass off for help while running through the neighborhood. I'd also start banging on the nearest door screaming for help if I couldn't make it home.

Now let me ask you, if Trayvon was a scared little kid, why didn't he do any of these things?

Popcorn Johnny:gimmegimme: I ask out of genuine curiosity. What would be your reaction if, the next time you're walking through your neighborhood, you notice someone rolling alongside you in a car and then they begin to follow you on foot?

Trayvon never knew he was being followed on foot, he took off running around a corner before Zimmerman exited his vehicle.

As for your question. I'm 6'2, 210 pounds and very capable of defending myself. If I was walking home from the store and suddenly thought I was being followed, or even chased and was in fear for my life, here's what I would do. First I would take off running, calling 911 at the same time. I would also be shouting my ass off for help while running through the neighborhood. I'd also start banging on the nearest door screaming for help if I couldn't make it home.

Why would he "take off running behind a corner" unless he feared for his safety, knowing he was in danger?

Now let me ask you, if Trayvon was a scared little kid, why didn't he do any of these things?

Perhaps he knew that he had the right to self-defense. Who knows?

///Gosh, I hate when people come into the thread and start speculating about things they don't know.

Popcorn Johnny:As for your question. I'm 6'2, 210 pounds and very capable of defending myself. If I was walking home from the store and suddenly thought I was being followed, or even chased and was in fear for my life, here's what I would do. First I would take off running, calling 911 at the same time. I would also be shouting my ass off for help while running through the neighborhood. I'd also start banging on the nearest door screaming for help if I couldn't make it home.

Now let me ask you, if Trayvon was a scared little kid, why didn't he do any of these things?

Okay so Zimmerman had the right to stand his ground because when he was stalking Trayvon, Trayvon refused to scream and find a phone to call 911 and chose to stand his ground.

gimmegimme:Livingroom: gimmegimme: Popcorn Johnny: gimmegimme: Compared to a gunshot wound to the chest?

Yes.

Maybe Zimmy shouldn't have started a fight he couldn't finish...

Hey look, the people that know absolutely nothing about the case are here to make assumptions.

Friend, a random citizen took it upon himself to follow a kid around in armed pursuit in a vehicle and then on foot. The target didn't know if he was going to be raped or kidnapped or stabbed or shot in the chest from a few inches away.

But I suppose you wouldn't consider it starting a fight if someone did the same thing to you.

no, i wouldnt be wearing a goddamn hoody slinking through a rich neighbourhood at night IN THE SUMMER. that spells disaster, always has, always will.

February is summer for you? Do you live in the Southern Hemisphere?

Livingroom: gimmegimme: Popcorn Johnny: gimmegimme: Friend, a random citizen took it upon himself to follow a kid around in armed pursuit in a vehicle and then on foot. The target didn't know if he was going to be raped or kidnapped or stabbed or shot in the chest from a few inches away.

A concerned citizen, who happened to be armed, reported a suspicious person to the police and then attempted to regain sight of that person after they fled. The suspicious person then launched a violent assault on the citizen, leading the concerned citizen to pull their legally carried firearm and defend them self from great bodily harm or possibly death.

I ask out of genuine curiosity. What would be your reaction if, the next time you're walking through your neighborhood, you notice someone rolling alongside you in a car and then they begin to follow you on foot?

it wouldnt be to turn around and beat the hell out of my follower, thats for damn sure.

Friend, in the United States have a right to self-defense.

self defense does not mean preemptively attacking somebody just "because they're following you" hoodie or not. self defense is what zimmerman did: after suffering a broken nose and having his head bashed in, he used self defense.

Livingroom:self defense does not mean preemptively attacking somebody just "because they're following you" hoodie or not. self defense is what zimmerman did: after suffering a broken nose and having his head bashed in, he used self defense.

Let me guess, you think Martin was obligated to wait until he suffered a skull fracture before defending himself, right?

Hey look, the people that know absolutely nothing about the case are here to make assumptions.

Friend, a random citizen took it upon himself to follow a kid around in armed pursuit in a vehicle and then on foot. The target didn't know if he was going to be raped or kidnapped or stabbed or shot in the chest from a few inches away.

But I suppose you wouldn't consider it starting a fight if someone did the same thing to you.

no, i wouldnt be wearing a goddamn hoody slinking through a rich neighbourhood at night IN THE SUMMER. that spells disaster, always has, always will.

February is summer for you? Do you live in the Southern Hemisphere?

Livingroom: gimmegimme: Popcorn Johnny: gimmegimme: Friend, a random citizen took it upon himself to follow a kid around in armed pursuit in a vehicle and then on foot. The target didn't know if he was going to be raped or kidnapped or stabbed or shot in the chest from a few inches away.

A concerned citizen, who happened to be armed, reported a suspicious person to the police and then attempted to regain sight of that person after they fled. The suspicious person then launched a violent assault on the citizen, leading the concerned citizen to pull their legally carried firearm and defend them self from great bodily harm or possibly death.

I ask out of genuine curiosity. What would be your reaction if, the next time you're walking through your neighborhood, you notice someone rolling alongside you in a car and then they begin to follow you on foot?

it wouldnt be to turn around and beat the hell out of my follower, thats for damn sure.

Friend, in the United States have a right to self-defense.

self defense does not mean preemptively attacking somebody just "because they're following you" hoodie or not. self defense is what zimmerman did: after su ...

Should Zimmerman have even been following him to get into that position?Under the law it seems like the shooting was justified if he was being attacked. However, there could be a case made that it was Zimmerman's own negligence that put him in a position where he could be attacked in the first place. If he initiated the encounter with Trayvon, criminally negligent manslaughter should be on the table.

TuteTibiImperes:Should Zimmerman have even been following him to get into that position?Under the law it seems like the shooting was justified if he was being attacked. However, there could be a case made that it was Zimmerman's own negligence that put him in a position where he could be attacked in the first place. If he initiated the encounter with Trayvon, criminally negligent manslaughter should be on the table.

It's obvious to me, based upon the 911 call and Zimmerman's own wannabe cop background, that Zimmerman was the aggressor in the incident. As such he wasn't neither standing his ground nor defending others when he fired his weapon.

I hope it's also obvious to the jury by the time they go into deliberations.

gimmegimme:Perhaps he knew that he had the right to self-defense. Who knows?

///Gosh, I hate when people come into the thread and start speculating about things they don't know.

So which one is your side going with, Trayvon was a scared little kid trying to get away from a stalker, or that he was a man standing his ground? Considering his close proximity to his home, it has to be one or the other.

As for speculations, there's nothing wrong with them in these threads. What's wrong is the people, mostly on your side, that speculate as to what they think happened and then come to a conclusion that Zimmerman is guilty based on those speculations.

I say that Zimmerman is innocent not based on my speculations, but because there's no evidence that contradicts his version of events, and no evidence that he was the aggressor, or that he was not defending himself from great bodily harm when the shot was fired.

Popcorn Johnny:gimmegimme: Perhaps he knew that he had the right to self-defense. Who knows?

///Gosh, I hate when people come into the thread and start speculating about things they don't know.

So which one is your side going with, Trayvon was a scared little kid trying to get away from a stalker, or that he was a man standing his ground? Considering his close proximity to his home, it has to be one or the other.

As for speculations, there's nothing wrong with them in these threads. What's wrong is the people, mostly on your side, that speculate as to what they think happened and then come to a conclusion that Zimmerman is guilty based on those speculations.

I say that Zimmerman is innocent not based on my speculations, but because there's no evidence that contradicts his version of events, and no evidence that he was the aggressor, or that he was not defending himself from great bodily harm when the shot was fired.

As I've said a number of times, the main reason I enjoy these threads is because I simply don't understand your inability to grasp---even if you still luv Zim---how Trayvon Martin could have been defending himself or how he could have been afraid of Zim.

I'm not sure if I agree with your conjecture that Martin was the aggressor, seeing as how Zim was the one on a lengthy armed pursuit (that seems pretty aggressive to me!), but I can at least hold the ideas you're saying in my head.

This is intelligence: being able to hold conflicting ideas in one's head.

Popcorn Johnny:gimmegimme: Perhaps he knew that he had the right to self-defense. Who knows?

///Gosh, I hate when people come into the thread and start speculating about things they don't know.

So which one is your side going with, Trayvon was a scared little kid trying to get away from a stalker, or that he was a man standing his ground? Considering his close proximity to his home, it has to be one or the other.

As for speculations, there's nothing wrong with them in these threads. What's wrong is the people, mostly on your side, that speculate as to what they think happened and then come to a conclusion that Zimmerman is guilty based on those speculations.

I say that Zimmerman is innocent not based on my speculations, but because there's no evidence that contradicts his version of events, and no evidence that he was the aggressor, or that he was not defending himself from great bodily harm when the shot was fired.

The 911 call recording has the operator telling Zimmerman that he doesn't need to Trayvon, but he does anyway. While Trayvon may have started the physical altercation later, none of it would have happened had Zimmerman just phoned in the suspicious person sighting and let the police handle it from there.

TuteTibiImperes:Popcorn Johnny: gimmegimme: Perhaps he knew that he had the right to self-defense. Who knows?

///Gosh, I hate when people come into the thread and start speculating about things they don't know.

So which one is your side going with, Trayvon was a scared little kid trying to get away from a stalker, or that he was a man standing his ground? Considering his close proximity to his home, it has to be one or the other.

As for speculations, there's nothing wrong with them in these threads. What's wrong is the people, mostly on your side, that speculate as to what they think happened and then come to a conclusion that Zimmerman is guilty based on those speculations.

I say that Zimmerman is innocent not based on my speculations, but because there's no evidence that contradicts his version of events, and no evidence that he was the aggressor, or that he was not defending himself from great bodily harm when the shot was fired.

The 911 call recording has the operator telling Zimmerman that he doesn't need to follow Trayvon, but he does anyway. While Trayvon may have started the physical altercation later, none of it would have happened had Zimmerman just phoned in the suspicious person sighting and let the police handle it from there.

TuteTibiImperes:Popcorn Johnny: gimmegimme: Perhaps he knew that he had the right to self-defense. Who knows?

///Gosh, I hate when people come into the thread and start speculating about things they don't know.

So which one is your side going with, Trayvon was a scared little kid trying to get away from a stalker, or that he was a man standing his ground? Considering his close proximity to his home, it has to be one or the other.

As for speculations, there's nothing wrong with them in these threads. What's wrong is the people, mostly on your side, that speculate as to what they think happened and then come to a conclusion that Zimmerman is guilty based on those speculations.

I say that Zimmerman is innocent not based on my speculations, but because there's no evidence that contradicts his version of events, and no evidence that he was the aggressor, or that he was not defending himself from great bodily harm when the shot was fired.

The 911 call recording has the operator telling Zimmerman that he doesn't need to Trayvon, but he does anyway. While Trayvon may have started the physical altercation later, none of it would have happened had Zimmerman just phoned in the suspicious person sighting and let the police handle it from there.

Think about what you're saying and the consequences. If Zim had let Martin get away, the kid would have eaten Skittles and had some Arizona while watching the second half of a basketball game.

gimmegimme:As I've said a number of times, the main reason I enjoy these threads is because I simply don't understand your inability to grasp---even if you still luv Zim---how Trayvon Martin could have been defending himself or how he could have been afraid of Zim.

I'm not sure if I agree with your conjecture that Martin was the aggressor, seeing as how Zim was the one on a lengthy armed pursuit (that seems pretty aggressive to me!), but I can at least hold the ideas you're saying in my head.

This is intelligence: being able to hold conflicting ideas in one's head.

We don't know who started the fight, I've said that many times in these threads. You keep saying "armed pursuit" and that's not what happened. Zimmerman was never perusing Martin, he briefly followed him around a corner. You seem to want to make it out as if Zimmerman was running through the neighborhood, gun drawn, in pursuit of Trayvon. The reality is that he ran for less than 10 seconds after exiting his vehicle when Trayvon took off running and disappeared around the side of one of the buildings. After that, there's no evidence that Zimmerman regained sight of Trayvon and followed, or chased after him.