Yes, of course we have physical released, and I was fiiled the discography and photos too.Am I wrong doing that? Sorry, it's confusing me

Okay, listen: At first, I didn't know what band you were referring to. So I had a look, because generally when a user doesn't know why a band was rejected, it's because they didn't provide the sort of proof that we're looking for.

Now, as it so happens, this band was already submitted by another user, and it was rejected/blacklisted because it was mostly crust/punk-based grindcore. You actually shouldn't have been able to submit that band in the first place... but because you used a different spelling ("Anak Setan" instead of "Anaksetan"), it wasn't blocked by the blacklist. So the reason I rejected your draft THIS time is for a different reason. Do you understand?

Because it doesn't look convincing. What I saw was a cd-r with something scribbled on it and the track is untitled. Doesn't sound to me like a demo that you hand out or sell to people, it sounds more like a recorded sound check.

I listen to a lot of other metal bands who are similarly chaotic and atonal (including some that are on Encyclopaedia Metallum, such as the early American Heritage albums and Behold the Arctopus).

In reply to the two criticisms -

1.) "This is just a chaotic mess of distortion" - That sounds like a personal opinion, which is ok, but all I can say is that I listen to a lot of similar bands, who are found in the metal section of record shops. I would have said the same thing about Burzum and Darkthrone when I was younger (who even recorded in their own homes on crackly tape recorders) but I love them now. They're both on Encyclopaedia Metallum.

2.) "...with no discernible metal riffs" - Well, the tunes were all written and move through structured sections, so the riffs are there - just with a lot of clashing notes. It's deliberately very hard music, but that was the point. It's also not that rare to have atonality in some metal genres, which are accepted.

If you need an example of a repeated metal riff, the song "Taste" starts with a build up of just one riff, to give the listener a long into before the harder stuff begins. It's a deliberately cliched doom metal riff, with the classic bend up to an augmented 4th, as popularized brilliantly by Black Sabbath.

ParoxysmXX: As Alhadis said, your dursting and the blacklisting are independent from each other. Obviously we don't bar bands entirely for one idiotic user. Even if said user is a member of the band.

ParoxysmXX wrote:

A band does not have to make metal and only metal to be considered a metal band.

To put this as accurately and comprehensibly as I can... your band is about as metal as Abba.

On the contrary, we're working on some highly metal material at the moment. We'll release it eventually, and then you'll have no choice but to accept us. We'll release something that's an "unambiguously metal album".

I listen to a lot of other metal bands who are similarly chaotic and atonal (including some that are on Encyclopaedia Metallum, such as the early American Heritage albums and Behold the Arctopus).

In reply to the two criticisms - [..]

I agree with Morrigan. This is much closer to some noisy rock than it is to metal. The key word is metal riffs, not riffs per se. I couldn't find any, or at least not ones that play a fundamental role in your music. Same for that "deliberately cliched doom metal riff". You mean that random percussive motif revolving around two notes and a bend? I think you need to re-listen to Black Sabbath, sorry. To be perfectly frank, this sounds more like an attempt at playing metal without having much of a clue about it.

ParoxysmXX wrote:

On the contrary, we're working on some highly metal material at the moment. We'll release it eventually, and then you'll have no choice but to accept us. We'll release something that's an "unambiguously metal album".

Well, be that as it may, as of now the band is still unacceptable. Once that supposed metal album is completed and released physically you can post proof for its existence and samples from it in this thread and the band will be evaluated again. The troll odour is getting stronger and stronger with each post, though, and it looks as if you're deliberately trying to get on here, so us having "no choice but to accept [you]" couldn't be further from the truth.

It 'a simple rehearsal tape that we recorded with the riffs and the drums of a new song.It is not distributed by any distro or anything like that, as I told you it was made by us Legione.What picture do you need?It 'a simple white box handwritten by us

Distribution doesn't need to be by a label, of course. What I (and Porman) mean is, can people contact your band and obtain a copy? Do you give them away at concerts (if you play any)? We need some form of public circulation of the release. If you guys simply recorded it on one tape for your own purposes that's not enough. That's also why I was asking for a photo with more than one copy in it.

Ohhh yes, if anyone is interested can contact us.This rehearsal is just the beginning, we are going to make an album within the next year and will be released only on LP for my label HOD Productions (Holocaust Of Dreams Productions).I remind you that even with Orcrist started with just a simple reherasal given only to friends ....If anyone is interested, the HOD is releasing Brisen "Shade Of Soul" on LP is in press...

You haven't addressed that I pointed out other bands who have been accepted to E.M., who are also noise based. There's a precedent.

Re. the comment: "I think you need to re-listen to Black Sabbath, sorry. To be perfectly frank, this sounds more like an attempt at playing metal without having much of a clue about it."

I thought EM was supposed to be an archive of metal, not only metal that a clique of people like? This is a personal opinion (which is fine for yourself and I respect) but not as a rule for a serious archive. I've listened to metal my whole life and love it, but having to copy another band exactly seems a bit like saying you can only be metal if you wear black. We've moved on since then, as have other bands who are already accepted by EM.

Also, I'm of course not trying to sound like Black Sabbath - I was just pointing out an example of some obviously metal riff construction, as you asked me for it. Do metal riffs all have to be complex as well? This fitting in with the clique stuff all seems a little hipster doesn't ti?

Hi Admins!Nagaarum (Hungary) was rejected once, because of the lack of physical format.The CD-s are ready, and soon I (and a litle distro in Hungary) will release all the albums.Evidence:http://nagaarum.com/megjelent.phpFind photos.Could you be so kind that revoke the band from the blacklist?

You haven't addressed that I pointed out other bands who have been accepted to E.M., who are also noise based. There's a precedent.

Probably because this stupid fallacy is posted all the time and we're sick of it? Precedent is meaningless. If there are unacceptable bands on this site, report them and we'll delete them. They do NOT mean that a similarly unacceptable band will be accepted. Jesus fucking christ how many times do we have to say this?

Quote:

I thought EM was supposed to be an archive of metal, not only metal that a clique of people like? This is a personal opinion (which is fine for yourself and I respect) but not as a rule for a serious archive. I've listened to metal my whole life and love it, but having to copy another band exactly seems a bit like saying you can only be metal if you wear black. We've moved on since then, as have other bands who are already accepted by EM.

Also, I'm of course not trying to sound like Black Sabbath - I was just pointing out an example of some obviously metal riff construction, as you asked me for it. Do metal riffs all have to be complex as well? This fitting in with the clique stuff all seems a little hipster doesn't ti?

Derp. No. This isn't about cliques. Otherwise we wouldn't have over 80k bands listed of all genres. We rejected your band because it has pretty much nothing in common with how metal (of any kind) actually sounds. You might think that to be metal all you need are distorted guitars and pounded drums, but we don't work like that here.

Edit: oh, regarding his comment about Black Sabbath, it was in response to your "cliché doom metal riff", where you show that you have no clue as to what doom metal riffs sound like.

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Von Cichlid wrote:

I work with plenty of Oriental and Indian persons and we get along pretty good, and some females as well.

Markeri, in 2013 wrote:

a fairly agreed upon date [of the beginning of metal] is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old

Re. the comment: "I think you need to re-listen to Black Sabbath, sorry. To be perfectly frank, this sounds more like an attempt at playing metal without having much of a clue about it."

I thought EM was supposed to be an archive of metal, not only metal that a clique of people like? This is a personal opinion (which is fine for yourself and I respect) but not as a rule for a serious archive. I've listened to metal my whole life and love it, but having to copy another band exactly seems a bit like saying you can only be metal if you wear black. We've moved on since then, as have other bands who are already accepted by EM.

First of all, it's not like that's the only thing I wrote in response to your original post. Second of all, while that last bit also reflected my honest opinion about your music's quality, it isn't a "I don't like it, so rejected" but clearly (if you had posted it in context) a "I don't think it's metal, so rejected". And yes, it's my personal opinion/assessment; what else do you want me to tell you in my capacity as a moderator? It's also your personal opinion that the music is metal. And you can keep on having that opinion, that's perfectly fine, but this site does not share it.

At this point, at least two moderators are in agreement that the band does not fulfill our guidelines. (and that's putting it rather diplomatically, btw) If you record something new, release it on a physical medium and think it warrants reevaluation, you can post it here, but for now the case is closed.

Hi Admins!Nagaarum (Hungary) was rejected once, because of the lack of physical format.The CD-s are ready, and soon I (and a litle distro in Hungary) will release all the albums.Evidence:http://nagaarum.com/megjelent.phpFind photos.Could you be so kind that revoke the band from the blacklist?

Not quite, it was rejected because the music is mostly dark ambient and your more metallic releases were digital. "Lombotómia" is pure ambient from what I can hear (it's also described as such on your website). We need a physical METAL release. "Oort" (1 & 2) have doom metal elements, but they're a) not what I'd call predominant and b) both albums are digital anyway. So no, the band will stay on the blacklist.

oogboog wrote:

Why did the Egyptian band Sand Aura get blacklisted? Lack of metalness? Physical release?

You haven't addressed that I pointed out other bands who have been accepted to E.M., who are also noise based. There's a precedent.

Probably because this stupid fallacy is posted all the time and we're sick of it? Precedent is meaningless. If there are unacceptable bands on this site, report them and we'll delete them. They do NOT mean that a similarly unacceptable band will be accepted. Jesus fucking christ how many times do we have to say this?

In support of Morrigan, I will elaborate on a little philosophical problem with "precedence" based upon comparing a band (let's say, Band X) that is not on the archives with the music of another (Band Y) that is. Let's say that Band Y is not a clear-cut example of a band that has stayed predominantly metal for their career, but does have some clear and apparent metal albums (or at least how we define metal, which is based on the idea of the music having metal riffs). Out of this, we could say that Band Y has some predominantly metal albums, but also has some non-metal albums, OR, the band may even play metal music throughout their discography, but with some influences from non-metal sources (punk, or -core, or rock, or ambient, or folk, or noise, etc.). In any case, Band Y - which is on the Archives - has an eclectic range of musical styles in its discography, and ones you can pinpoint as being "influential" to their metal sound, or as being distinctly non-metal albums.

Keeping with that same analogy, let's say a user comes along and suggests that Band X belongs in the Archives because Band Y exists on the Archives, or because their band sounds awfully similar, or maybe both. What's entirely possible - and is true in this case - is that what the user hears as similar between both bands is mainly the non-metal properties of both bands' music, overlooking the exact reason we accepted Band Y in the first place. It is rather like saying both Band X and both Band Y have these things, Apples and Oranges, with Apples being "metal riffs" and Oranges being "everything else." Ignoring the fact that you can't compare Apples with Oranges (since that's impractical) or Apples with Apples (when little to no metal riffs exist within Band X's musical career), you're stuck comparing Oranges with Oranges, and in most cases this arises because you compare what you want to compare. It makes the job of trying to judge a music's sound rather disingenuous and not very encyclopedic.

It's for this reason, among others certainly, that we tend to prefer to judge bands on their own merits, without relying on the argument, "but they sound just like this other band that is on the Archives!" It doesn't make us buy your argument, because your argument is based on facetious grounds. The best you can do is what both Morrigan noted (rather frankly) and what Azmodes suggest (in a formally apparent manner), and that is to show us the metal riffs of your band on its own terms. We're tired of this musical fruit box of comparison and precedence.

To simplify what Derigin said: it's like saying a band should be accepted because it sounds like Def Leppard or Soulfly. Def Leppard's debut is NWOBHM but the rest of their discography is pop rock, and Soulfly's latest release is groove metal but the rest is nu-metal. So yeah, you can see why this argument falls flat on its face.

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Von Cichlid wrote:

I work with plenty of Oriental and Indian persons and we get along pretty good, and some females as well.

Markeri, in 2013 wrote:

a fairly agreed upon date [of the beginning of metal] is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old

Hi Admins!Nagaarum (Hungary) was rejected once, because of the lack of physical format.The CD-s are ready, and soon I (and a litle distro in Hungary) will release all the albums.Evidence:http://nagaarum.com/megjelent.phpFind photos.Could you be so kind that revoke the band from the blacklist?

Not quite, it was rejected because the music is mostly dark ambient and your more metallic releases were digital. "Lombotómia" is pure ambient from what I can hear (it's also described as such on your website). We need a physical METAL release. "Oort" (1 & 2) have doom metal elements, but they're a) not what I'd call predominant and b) both albums are digital anyway. So no, the band will stay on the blacklist.

We accept a small number of non-metal either as side-projects or other selected exception. These are judged based on their renown, place and impact in the metal community, meaning that they're usually projects by well-known musicians or otherwise reasonably popular bands with a big listenership in the "metal scene".

As previously detailed, we don't judge bands by way of comparison with accepted ones (especially non-metal exceptions) and -most importantly- this clause doesn't apply to your case in the slightest anyway.

We accept a small number of non-metal either as side-projects or other selected exception. These are judged based on their renown, place and impact in the metal community, meaning that they're usually projects by well-known musicians or otherwise reasonably popular bands with a big listenership in the "metal scene".

As previously detailed, we don't judge bands by way of comparison with accepted ones (especially non-metal exceptions) and -most importantly- this clause doesn't apply to your case in the slightest anyway.

I see... thanks!This problem is partly understandable. But I have really metal band too. Look at this: http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/GuilThee/97329I have one of the founder members of the GuilThee. There are a lot of article about us in Hungary (pressed in Hungarian Metal Hammer too). Of course we are not famous as Tamás Kátai of Thy Catafalque... If the reason is this, I comprehend it.Sorry for my peasant English style... :-S