Minister ignites education debate

MAXINE McKEW: Brendan Nelson, it seems something of an odd message for a new Education Minister to suggest that we somehow should ease the pressure on students to complete 12 years of high school?

DR BRENDAN NELSON, EDUCATION MINISTER: Our vision as a country needs to be to encourage every Australian and young people in particular, to both find and achieve their own potential.

For a number of young Australians, of course, that will mean completion of year 12 and going on to higher education, and for those who choose not to and freely choose not to, TAFE and vocational training and new apprenticeships should be seen as equally legitimate career choices that they make.

One of the experiences I've had over the years in dealing with young people, especially those who are disengaged from society, generally, their families and education, is that they frequently have felt that they have been forced to remain in the education system, at times beyond their natural abilities to study things which in their hearts they feel to which they are not suited.

So, as professor Ken Nunn has said, some of us are salmon who want to get to the top of the stream, but others just want to find our quiet pond in the world and in a sense, I want to encourage Australians to be the best they can be but not beyond that with which they feel comfortable.

MAXINE McKEW: I'm just wondering, though, for how many people these days, Minister, is there a quiet pond?

Does a quiet pond exist and is that compatible, really, with what the Government message seems to be in terms of the broader national economy, the need for a high-skilled workforce?

DR BRENDAN NELSON: It most certainly is.

I remember almost 10 years ago when I was practising medicine in a very low-income area, the then PM, Paul Keating said that in 10 years time nobody in Australia would be pushing a broom.

And beneath that kind of comment, is a view that in some way that some people who choose not to go on to university for a variety of reasons and young people who feel that they are not equipped for a variety of reasons to undertake that, that they should feel that their career choices, that the apprenticeships, the training, the TAFE and other vocational, educational training options we offer them are just as legitimate and that the Government continue to build on the options that are available to young people, particularly in secondary school, at the same time that we equip people for secondary education with the ability to read, write, communicate and count.

MAXINE McKEW: Minister, I take your point.

But isn't the problem say for, if you like, low income families that, in fact, it's not too much pressure.

In many families where poverty has, if you like, an inter-generational grip, it is lack of social ambition?

DR BRENDAN NELSON: Well, there are a number of issues.

I'm privileged to represent the electorate of Bradfield in Sydney, and I represent some of the people in Australia who have the highest levels of education and income and within that group you will find some young people who feel that they are meeting parental expectation, which in some cases, they feel is in excess of that with which they're able to cope.

MAXINE McKEW: I've noticed you said you'd be quite happy if your son said, "Dad, I'm going to do TAFE, not university."

How realistic is that, Minister, given that assuming he's say, at a private school, the peer pressure and the academic pressure would be entirely the other way, wouldn't it?

DR BRENDAN NELSON: Well, importantly schools and parents need to be working together to tell the next generation of young Australians that they should pursue excellence in everything that they should do.

We should help them find their talents, the things that they are particularly good at, create an educational environment which enables them to find and achieve their potential, as I said.

But we need to step back and say, look, if in Year 10 or Year 11, with vocational education increasingly available in a school environment, if a young person says, "I would like to take up a technology career, through a vocational education provider," or whether it be in the arts or indeed, in your own profession, Maxine, we should be able to say, "We encourage you and support you."

MAXINE McKEW: Yes, but I suggest to you it's not how, say, particularly employers would see it.

I mean, how many employers would even consider taking on someone who hasn't finished 12 years of high school education?

DR BRENDAN NELSON: Well Maxine, employers are doing it everyday.

Seven out of 10 young people do not go on to higher education and the majority of those at the moment are going into new apprenticeships, a variety of training programs -- many of which are provided by TAFE and others provided by private vocational, education and training providers.

MAXINE McKEW: So, what about the overall high school retention rate, as you know, has been dropping throughout the '90s -- it's now in the low 70s.

Does that mean you see that as an acceptable figure, more or less?

DR BRENDAN NELSON: Well, in an ideal world, Maxine, we would want every young Australian to complete Year 12 and then continue in life-long learning in one form or another.

The fact is, that not all of us biologically or emotionally, are equipped or want to undertake that level of study.

We also need to recognise, that as the labour market is improved, as the economy has grown, particularly over the last six years and work opportunities have been available for young people, they've been making the decisions themselves to take up vocational training and new apprenticeships and then go into the workforce.

What we want to do is make sure we have the right equilibrium, but there is nothing particularly clever about setting hurdles for young people over which they feel they cannot jump and put them into things for which they feel they are ill-equipped.

We've got to make sure that young people feel free to follow in their hearts what they know that they are good at and where they can lead fulfilling and rewarding lives, both in an economic and personal sense.