RebeccaCullen wrote: The only thing I can recall clearly is the part in the movie when Alice and Bella are about to drive off and Bella tells Jacob that it`s always going to be Edward when he asks her to stay. If she fell for him, like SM is trying to make me believe, IMO, Bella would have seriously considered staying in Forks because as far as I'm concerned, she was lead to believe that he didn't love her any more.

Actually, she never said that in the book at all. In the book, when she left, she just asked him to keep Charlie safe while she was gone. Even in the movie, the line you are referring to was after she came back (when she and Edward met Jacob in the forest), so it did not take place prior to her going at all. She said nothing directly either in the book or movie that would make Jake think that she didn't care for him. In fact, in the book, she kissed his hand before she left. Not something you'd do if you were brushing somebody off.

The line (that it was always going to be Edward) is certainly true, as what she feels for Jacob is not enough to overcome what she feels for Edward, but I think you're downplaying Jacob and Bella's relationship.

RebeccaCullen wrote: I think Bella cared for Jacob and loved him like he was her brother (which was how I read their entire relationship in NM)

I'm sure that every Team Edward fan would love it if this were true, but even at the time I was worried about how close they were getting. She was getting ready to settle for him, and that takes a little more than a brother/sister relationship.

RebeccaCullen wrote: It was only in EC that she felt guilty for using him, and it was that guilt that, I think, caused her to continue her messed up friendship with him until he was hurt in the fight with the newborns and she was forced to realize that she couldn`t have both Edward and Jacob.

No, she realised it prior to that, when she kissed him, and I don't think there's any doubt that she felt more than just guilt for Jacob, as much as we might wish otherwise.

Or failing that, scrawl pages and pages of Lex posts demonstrating that the intensity of Bella's feelings for Jake just goes to show how truly, madly, deeply, irrevocably she's really in love with Edward -- or else she would never choose to give up her life for him when she could choose Jake and live.

And that Edward and Bella's love story would be that much the less romantic, if Stephenie hadn't made the depth of Bella's love for Edward clear in this way.

Um, maybe.....

“When did you ever promise to kill yourself falling out of Charlie’s tree?”

Absolutely. As SM herself says on her website, the deeper her love is for Jacob, the more astonishingly powerful it makes her love for Edward. What a love it has to be to make her give up something like that for it! It's no sacrifice if she isn't giving up a lot.

That is an awesome way to look at it and a new perspective for me to see from. It must be true love to leave such an easy and tempting life behind. She could have the family, the friends, the acceptance from Charlie who would love for her to be with Jake, and she could have a normal life. Oh and I will give MR some credit. At the end of Eclipse, Bella's speech made a little bit of sense. The only part she lost me at was at the end.

It wasn't as much about choosing Jacob or Edward as it was about choosing who she should be or who she was. She never felt normal. I liked that part.....then she had to go and say it wasn't all about Edward and she lost me. I never interpreted it that way in the books. I thought her sacrifice was for Edward and she did choose that life for him, not because the appeal of being a vampire was so amazing. Great thoughts ladies!

Emmettroselover wrote:That is an awesome way to look at it and a new perspective for me to see from. It must be true love to leave such an easy and tempting life behind. She could have the family, the friends, the acceptance from Charlie who would love for her to be with Jake, and she could have a normal life. Oh and I will give MR some credit. At the end of Eclipse, Bella's speech made a little bit of sense. The only part she lost me at was at the end.

Yes, the end of that scene made me absolutely furious. I was already ticked off by quite a few things in Eclipse, and when those last couple of lines came out of their mouths I wanted to punch somebody! Of course it's about Edward!!! Although it seems SM didn't have any problem with it, judging from her commentary. Kristen didn't like it, though. And it would have been fine without those two lines!!!!!!

If we're being purely cynical, those lines were probably put in because of MR's feminist viewpoints, and that would apply whether Bella ended up with Edward or Jacob. I think it's the intensity of Bella's commitment to Edward that she is uncomfortable with, and if Bella's commitment to Jacob was portrayed as being that strong, then she would have been anxious to tone it down, too.

It is interesting that that viewpoint crept in primarily in Eclipse. I'm not sure why she suddenly felt compelled to put it in there. It certainly wasn't visible in Twilight, and I didn't see any concrete sign of it in New Moon, either. In fact, in that one Bella was just as devastated at Edward leaving as she was in the books. But suddenly in Eclipse there's this idea that Bella can't need Edward too much, that she has to be strong and independent (like she wasn't already!) and has to hyphenate her surname, and all that. Very odd.

That is a good point. What was it about Eclipse that made MR feel like it was the best time to impose her feminist views? I am all for strong, independent women, but as a screenplay writer for a movie that is based on such a followed book you would hope she would be able to set aside her personal feelings to write the script. It definitely wasn't as obvious in Twilight and New Moon, but I guess there were small things like in the books Bella cooked for Charlie a lot. In the movies, that wasn't the case. I also noticed that she downplayed Charlie's character a lot like in the way he interacted with Bella and how he responded to Jacob kissing her. She seemed to feel the need to step back from some of the aspects of the book. I wonder if it was because she just did not connect with Eclipse and wanted to alter a lot of things or if something happened behind the scenes to make her do it, like it was conscious decision made by more than just her. It all just seemed like she suddenly decided that she was going to make a Bella that she enjoyed, not necessarily stay true to the characters in the books.

Kristen Stewart gets a lot of criticism, but she truly does care about the books so I actually enjoy her opinions on how things played out. Maybe it is because she doesnt sugar coat things that much so you can tell when something irked her or when she loved how it played out.

Yes, I like Kristen. She's a straight down the line kind of person. I like that!

Emmettroselover wrote:I guess there were small things like in the books Bella cooked for Charlie a lot. In the movies, that wasn't the case.

I think that was just because there wasn't much time to show them having a lot of meals, and scenes sitting at the dinner table aren't terribly interesting. Not to mention that we also have a lot of meal scenes in the cafeteria, so I think they were left out to keep it interesting from a visual perspective.

Emmettroselover wrote:I also noticed that she downplayed Charlie's character a lot like in the way he interacted with Bella and how he responded to Jacob kissing her.

I did hear (and I'm not sure how accurate it is) that Billy Burke objected to the idea of Charlie laughing and congratulating Jake on kissing Bella like that. From what I heard he felt it was inconsistent with Charlie's character, and he wasn't keen on doing it. But that could be wrong.

Emmettroselover wrote: like it was conscious decision made by more than just her.

I often wonder that. I'm sure she has lots of people telling her how it should be. Also, I think we all make Bella what we want her to be in some way. We see things in her that other people mightn't see. This may just have been her version of who she felt Bella was.

Emmettroselover wrote:I also noticed that she downplayed Charlie's character a lot like in the way he interacted with Bella and how he responded to Jacob kissing her.

I did hear (and I'm not sure how accurate it is) that Billy Burke objected to the idea of Charlie laughing and congratulating Jake on kissing Bella like that. From what I heard he felt it was inconsistent with Charlie's character, and he wasn't keen on doing it. But that could be wrong.

I preferred Charlie's reaction to the forced kiss better in the movie than I did in the book because in the book it just ticked me off to no end that he laughed at his daughter getting hurt by the boy he wanted her with. Whereas the change in Edward in the movie ticked me off compared to the book. Some you win, some you don't.

If it's true that Billy Burke spoke up about Charlie's reaction, thank goodness he did.