I'm not debating the fact that crit is not a reliable stat and like I said haste is still arguably important for casting speed in fact if you spec in to Eternal Flame, it might be good to hit the EF cap regardless. But also notice what I said about instant spell users. Apart from DPS where it is obvious why some go haste as faster, more DPS never goes to waste, stacking haste for the purpose of casting instant casts quicker is in my opinion not very useful. Resto druids prioritize haste because their main spells are instant cast heals without default spell cooldowns and because a majority of their spells have HoT components. Shadow priests prioritize hast because they are a DPS class, faster casts from them never go to waste and 50% of their spells depend on DoTs. Personally I don't think haste will be devalued from where it is currently, but I do see getting crit as a reasonably useful secondary stat.

And the reason we would value haste, is that in the event we get an Infusion proc and we have a 1 sec GCD, you can then cast 3 spells rather than 2 in the period between Holy Shocks (obviously assuming tier) just because Haste doesn't directly benefit the cooldown spells doesn't mean it doesn't indirectly effect the efficiency with which we use those spells

While the dedication is admirable, reforging and regemming out of mastery really isn't necessary for Tsulong.

Reforging and gemming properly isn't really necessary to defeat 99% of encounters, so not sure what you're getting at. From a min/max point of view it absolutely makes logical sense to reforge out of mastery if feasible for Tsulong.

Reforging and gemming properly isn't really necessary to defeat 99% of encounters, so not sure what you're getting at. From a min/max point of view it absolutely makes logical sense to reforge out of mastery if feasible for Tsulong.

Absolutely, from a min/max point of view, that's stating the obvious.

I'm not sure my guild would be happy with me doing a full reforge for every boss on a min/max perspective. If you can't beat the encounter in your normal gear set then you're probably missing something and need to tweak your play. If you can beat the encounter in your normal gear then why are you wasting everyone's time going to reforge?

I'm not sure my guild would be happy with me doing a full reforge for every boss on a min/max perspective. If you can't beat the encounter in your normal gear set then you're probably missing something and need to tweak your play. If you can beat the encounter in your normal gear then why are you wasting everyone's time going to reforge?

I didn't say I could beat the encounter in my normal gear, we haven't beaten the encounter yet. I definitely don't reforge for other bosses (other than reforging back to mastery for the rest of the bosses in the tier).

As I mentioned, though, I actually kept up decent in Night Phase compared to when I was using my mastery spec for our first few attempts, so I was thinking of trying the all-crit build on some other fights once we're done progressing for the tier.

The other thing is reforging in Terrace takes a minimal amount of time thanks to the reforge mounts that can be mounted in the instance.

Well the crit is completely RNG and haste can only help so much in a small window (perhaps the extra EF tick outside of the window will be the main benefit).

I realise that mastery is useless for the actual healing phase, but I feel like talent and glyph setup is going to net you the most reliable improvement. Anything else is probably not needed.

I was thinking of this too, but for what it's worth, I'm getting more crit from DF (which means my crit gets some diminishing returns, but also means less RNG), and I also have 5-6 spells cast during the Light, and after the window I get 20+ ticks from EF, and 10(?) ticks from ES. Each crit tick heals for a decent chunk extra considering how strong the ticks are to begin with.

On the flip side, mastery is useless in the day phase, and as I pointed out, even in the night phase, I seemed to do relatively well even compared to when I had a mastery build. Plus I have Holy Avenger at the beginning of that phase as well.

Like I said, I'm not too sure on the best stats for this fight, and I know others probably have other ideas.

Talents and glyphs are set up for the encounter; these I also change for farm fights, since if we drop a Jeeves, I can refill Tomes back to 20 as well. Debating between Purity and Unbreakable Spirit, but I like the idea of getting 2 Lay on Hands.

I'm not sure my guild would be happy with me doing a full reforge for every boss on a min/max perspective. If you can't beat the encounter in your normal gear set then you're probably missing something and need to tweak your play. If you can beat the encounter in your normal gear then why are you wasting everyone's time going to reforge?

All fair points. In my case, I actually fully reforged haste for our Tsulong kill after our first sha kill and decided I would just stick with it (we don't really underheal during farm, so haste feels a bit better than mastery in that situation imo). That lead to my question asking if anybody else actually felt like they might be carrying a bit too much spirit with a full mastery build.

As Voidspark said, reforge mounts make reforging inside ToES take a matter of seconds to get rid of a stat that is 'worthless' for the healing phase of a 'healer gimmick' fight. We only get one a tier so I'm definitely making the most of it! =p

I'm a bit late to this discussion, but my guild just got H Tsulong so I wanted to drop my thoughts.

I reforged entirely Haste for this fight and will likely do this until its consistently on farm. It may not be extremely necessary, but that Haste could be the difference between a kill and a wipe in certain situations. My DL went from a 2.2 to a flat 2, which when making the most of the Breath buff is actually very nice. It may not be a huge difference, but if you have the gold and it helps your raid I dont see why you wouldn't do it.

Heya folks, just returned to WoW after a 3-4 month long break and leveled my pally. Got to 90 yesterday and I'm wondering which talent I should use, Holy Prism or Light's Hammer?

Seems that Light's Hammer will come out on top, but it really depends on wether you are healing dungeons, 10m or 25m raids. I would say if you are in anything other than a raid then Holy Prism may benefit you more. I personally use Light's Hammer as my go to talent for anything I am doing.

I think that Light's Hammer is the best option for raids, but Holy Prism may serve better in quick moving 5 mans. As long as you make sure to use it often it can add a lot your AoE healing or give you a nice single target heal.

So I think this has probably been talked about before, but what are you guys using, divine purpose or holy avenger? If you've tested both have you noticed a healing loss with divine purpose? Or it procs enough to compete?

So I think this has probably been talked about before, but what are you guys using, divine purpose or holy avenger? If you've tested both have you noticed a healing loss with divine purpose? Or it procs enough to compete?

So I think this has probably been talked about before, but what are you guys using, divine purpose or holy avenger? If you've tested both have you noticed a healing loss with divine purpose? Or it procs enough to compete?

If you're noobing it up just stick with DP, once you've settled in try out HA on fights where you think it'd be helpful

If you're noobing it up just stick with DP, once you've settled in try out HA on fights where you think it'd be helpful

lol nah, I just haven't played with DP since early this tier. I asked b/c I saw some pallies with DP who are in pretty decent guilds and wondered if its been procing enough to justify it. Tested it out last night on HM blade lord and garalon to see but I didn't like it that much. Probably will just end up going back to HA. I just wanted to check here in case I had missed something (like it got buffed and I didn't notice or something) but I guess not.

lol nah, I just haven't played with DP since early this tier. I asked b/c I saw some pallies with DP who are in pretty decent guilds and wondered if its been procing enough to justify it. Tested it out last night on HM blade lord and garalon to see but I didn't like it that much. Probably will just end up going back to HA. I just wanted to check here in case I had missed something (like it got buffed and I didn't notice or something) but I guess not.

lol nah, I just haven't played with DP since early this tier. I asked b/c I saw some pallies with DP who are in pretty decent guilds and wondered if its been procing enough to justify it. Tested it out last night on HM blade lord and garalon to see but I didn't like it that much. Probably will just end up going back to HA. I just wanted to check here in case I had missed something (like it got buffed and I didn't notice or something) but I guess not.

DP is good for fights where you can't think of where to use HA - Garalon comes to mind. I also like DP for Protectors of the Endless and as a general "fallback" talent when I can't think of good cooldown times (namely, anything we outgear).

HA's strength and weakness is its control - it's amazing on fights where there's high periods of damage (either tank or raid) and you need that burst. It's less amazing on consistent damage, because 1) a lot of what you get can be overheal, and 2) you need to use HP generating abilities during the duration of HA for it to be useful.

This means either Holy Radiance, or Tower of Radiance (so you can't get Beacon Heals). This also means you're more reliant on Infusion procs to get the maximum usage from the ability so in a way, it replaces RNG with more RNG. Since I don't have 4pc, I do suffer from this, but I'd imagine with 4pc HA becomes a lot more attractive of a CD.