2 somebody else was there, but I don't remember. There were several of us,

3 not just the two of us.

4 Q. Where was this?

5 A. At the restaurant Jasen.

6 Q. Did you hear the circumstances around the incident where the

7 person burned his hands grabbing a rifle held by a Muslim?

8 A. I heard about that. That a Muslim grabbed a rifle from a

9 policeman and killed him, shot a burst of fire at him. So the other

10 policeman grabbed the barrel of the rifle and burned his hand.

11 Q. And who told you that story?

12 A. I heard that from that young man that evening. He told me this

13 story. And prior to that I heard it from somebody else, but I don't

14 remember from whom.

15 Q. Was Mr. Borovcanin present when that story was told?

16 A. I am not sure, but I think so.

17 Q. Do you remember Mr. Borovcanin telling you anything about that

18 incident, where the person burned his hands and the police officer was

19 killed?

20 A. It was discussed that evening, but I truly don't remember what

21 Miroslav said, what Mr. Borovcanin said, what I said. We talked a lot.

22 Q. Was there --

23 A. This was long time ago, so I've forgotten a lot of it.

24 Q. Was there any discussion of the killings that you had seen at the

25 cooperative building, the warehouse in Kravica?

Page 9365

1 A. Yes, I told them about what I had seen, with some fear, but I told

2 them.

3 Q. And was Mr. Borovcanin present when you told that, what you'd

4 seen?

5 A. I think he was.

6 Q. From what you recall, when you heard the story about the burned

7 hands and the police officer getting killed, was that related at all to

8 the Kravica warehouse?

9 A. I don't know. Because I didn't see the incident with the

10 policeman when one was killed and the other one was burned. I saw the

11 killings, so I can't say whether it was related.

12 Q. Did they -- okay. Did they tell you that night at -- when you

13 were together, where this burned hand and police killing incident took

14 place?

15 A. No, I don't know that.

16 Q. Okay. Let's get back to the call that you received to go see

17 Colonel Beara. What did you do after receiving that call?

18 A. I went from my office to the SDS premises.

19 Q. Okay. Did you walk?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. And tell us about what -- what was there and what you did when you

22 got to the SDS premises.

23 (redacted)

24 (redacted). I went there, I came,

25 I saw two military policemen in the office of the secretary. I introduced

Page 9366

1 myself. I said that I had received a call from Colonel Beara to report to

2 him. They let me in, into the office of Miroslav Deronjic. I saw there

3 Colonel Beara and another two officers of the army of Republika Srpska. I

4 told them, (redacted).

5 You asked to see me."

6 JUDGE AGIUS: All right. Please redact immediately.

7 MR. McCLOSKEY: We may want to redact the reference to the utility

8 company that occurred.

9 JUDGE AGIUS: And even the distance from his office to the SDS

10 office.

11 Witness, please, we are doing our utmost to shield your -- your

12 identity. So try to avoid mentioning names or details that could reveal

13 your identity.

14 So let's continue.

15 We are going to redact what you said in any case. So it will not

16 be available to the public.

17 Go ahead, Mr. McCloskey.

18 MR. McCLOSKEY: Thank you, Mr. President.

19 Q. Did you recognise those other two officers that were in Miroslav

20 Deronjic's office?

21 A. No.

22 Q. Besides Colonel Beara and these two other officers, was there

23 anybody else in that office and -- besides yourself, of course?

24 A. No.

25 Q. Okay. Tell us what happened in there.

Page 9367

1 A. When I introduced myself to Colonel Beara he asked me what kind of

2 machinery I had, and also manpower. I told him that we had people

3 employed or mobilised, those who were not fit for the army. We had two

4 FAP trucks, and a small excavator, called SKIP.

5 Q. Okay.

6 JUDGE AGIUS: Sorry to interrupt you like this, Mr. McCloskey.

7 But let's go into private session for just a remark I would like to make,

8 soliciting your response to it.

9 [Private session]

10 (redacted)

11 (redacted)

12 (redacted)

13 (redacted)

14 (redacted)

15 (redacted)

16 (redacted)

17 (redacted)

18 (redacted)

19 (redacted)

20 (redacted)

21 (redacted)

22 (redacted)

23 (redacted)

24 (redacted)

25 (redacted)

Page 9368

1 (redacted)

2 (redacted)

3 (redacted)

4 (redacted)

5 (redacted)

6 (redacted)

7 (redacted)

8 (redacted)

9 (redacted)

10 (redacted)

11 (redacted)

12 (redacted)

13 [Open session]

14 JUDGE AGIUS: Sorry for that interruption, Witness.

15 Mr. McCloskey.

16 MR. McCLOSKEY:

17 Q. Thank you. You just had described the Colonel, Colonel Beara, the

18 kind of equipment you had and the manpower.

19 MR. McCLOSKEY: I think we can go into public.

20 JUDGE AGIUS: We are in public session now. We are.

21 MR. McCLOSKEY: Okay.

22 Q. And was anything else said that you remember?

23 A. I asked Colonel Beara why he wanted to know about the machinery we

24 had. I said, "What needs to be done?" He said, "It needs to be prepared."

25 It needed to go to Milici. Dead people have to be buried, there will be a

Page 9369

1 lot of dead and they need to be buried.

2 Q. And what did you say?

3 A. I said, "Colonel, we have two dumptrucks and one SKIP excavator.

4 What could they possibly do, of what use could they possibly be and why

5 would we go to Milici, to another municipality?" I asked him whether he

6 had contacted Mr. Rajko Dukic, and then he insolently cursed me and Rajko

7 Dukic and said, "You will be awaiting your further orders with --"

8 THE INTERPRETER: The interpreters didn't hear the end of the

9 sentence.

10 JUDGE AGIUS: If you could finish the end of that sentence again,

11 please. He told you, "You will be awaiting your further orders," and what

12 else?

13 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] That I was free to go. I went out,

14 went to my office, and then went home. During the night I was informed,

15 most likely from the SDS, I received a phone call to come again to the SDS

16 premises to receive further instructions or orders.

17 MR. McCLOSKEY:

18 Q. About what time of night was this?

19 A. After midnight. It was 1.00 or 2.00 a.m.

20 Q. Okay. And what did you do?

21 A. Nothing. I got ready, went there, reported. Colonel Beara told

22 me, "You will now go with the military policeman and find a burial

23 location." I told him that there was no way I was going to do that, to

24 look for a location to bury the dead. He said, "Well, there's this

25 military policeman, go with him and go to the location where a grave is to

Page 9370

1 be dug out." We went in a military vehicle to Glogova, near Kravica, some

2 100 to 150 metres from it, we took the old road and then we stopped and

3 the policeman showed me the location where a grave had to be dug out, one,

4 two or three graves. I noted that, and then we returned to Bratunac, and

5 I went home to sleep.

6 Q. Okay. Let me take you back. When you go back to the SDS offices

7 at 1.00 or 2.00 a.m., who was there this time?

8 A. On this occasion it was just Colonel Beara, and the two military

9 policemen that I mentioned.

10 Q. Did you see those two officers that you spoke of before that you

11 saw the previous time you were at the SDS office? I'm sorry I don't think

12 we heard that. We didn't hear your answer because it didn't get picked

13 up.

14 Did you see those other two officers you'd seen with Colonel Beara

15 at your first visit to the SDS?

16 A. The second time I came there I didn't see them. It was just

17 Colonel Beara there. The two policemen were in the next room.

18 Q. All right. Had -- did you get any indication whether or not

19 the -- he or the police, Colonel Beara or the policeman had been drinking?

20 A. There was a bottle of whiskey and a glass in front of Colonel

21 Beara.

22 Q. All right. What did you do the next morning?

23 A. The next morning I went to work, just like any other day. I

24 issued and designed tasks to people who had work obligation. The rest of

25 the men went in a truck, because the other truck was out of order, so we

Page 9371

1 had to bring it back from Glogova, went to Glogova, where a grave was to

2 be dug.

3 Q. About what time did you get to the Glogova grave site?

4 A. Maybe at 9.00 in the morning, around that time.

5 Q. And did you do -- did you or your crew do any work on the grave

6 that morning or that day?

7 A. Nothing was done until the excavator arrived, and it arrived a bit

8 later. Then the operator of construction machinery arrived, the one who

9 operated the excavator, and it was then that this common grave was dug.

10 They began digging.

11 Q. What kind of excavator was this?

12 A. It was ULT, it was a loader excavator. It was not a backhoe

13 excavator. And this is precisely why we were unable to dig three or four

14 graves, because this is a loader. And I think I explained that later to

15 Colonel Beara. And Colonel Beara promised that a backhoe excavator from

16 the -- the brigade would come and that we would continue digging with that

17 backhoe excavator. And that's exactly what happened. This excavator

18 arrived from the direction of Kravica or Konjevic Polje, it was brought on

19 a truck, FAP-18 truck. It was brought on a trailer. The excavator was

20 removed from the trailer, and the trucks turned back and went to Kravica

21 and Konjevic Polje, and the excavator remained there.

22 It was operated by Rade Djurkovic. And Simic, I can't remember

23 his first name. The operator was from the brickworks from Bratunac, as

24 was the equipment.

25 Q. So the ULT was from -- the ULT loader was from where?

Page 9372

1 A. ULT was from the state-owned company called Brickworks Bratunac.

2 Q. Is that Ciglana related to the brickworks?

3 A. Yes, yes. Ciglana is the factory manufacturing bricks.

4 Q. And did you work -- well, did bodies arrive at this grave that

5 day?

6 A. I didn't hear you well.

7 Q. Did bodies arrive at the grave in Glogova that day?

8 A. I think that towards the evening one or two trucks arrived when

9 ULT, the loader, went to Kravica, and the excavator remained at the

10 location in Glogova. It was only on the following days that the trucks

11 starting arriving in large numbers.

12 Q. Do you know where the bodies came from that filled that grave?

13 A. I assume that it was from Kravica.

14 Q. Are you familiar with any other locations where bodies came from

15 up in that area?

16 A. Well, yes. There was a group of workers from the utility company

17 collecting corpses next to the road. There were also corpses in Konjevic

18 Polje that were collected, then there were corpses in Bratunac next to the

19 school, all of those corpses were collected and taken to Glogova.

20 JUDGE AGIUS: Can we stop here for the day, Mr. McCloskey?

21 MR. McCLOSKEY: Yes. I think it's a good idea.

22 JUDGE AGIUS: So we stand adjourned until Monday morning.

23 Witness, please remember what I told you and not to speak to

24 anyone about the substance or the events that you are testifying about.

25 Have a nice weekend.

Page 9373

1 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 1.46 p.m.,

2 to be reconvened on Monday, the 26th day of March,

3 2007, at 9.00 a.m.

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* The bold and italicised text was previously confidential pursuant to a redaction order of the Chamber. The status of this redaction order has been changed from confidential to public per Chamber's decision of 15 March 2012.

* The bold and italicised text was previously confidential pursuant to a redaction order of the Chamber. The status of this redaction order has been changed from confidential to public per Chamber's decision of 15 March 2012.

* The bold and italicised text was previously confidential pursuant to a redaction order of the Chamber. The status of this redaction order has been changed from confidential to public per Chamber's decision of 15 March 2012.

* The bold and italicised text was previously confidential pursuant to a redaction order of the Chamber. The status of this redaction order has been changed from confidential to public per Chamber's decision of 15 March 2012.

* The bold and italicised text was previously confidential pursuant to a redaction order of the Chamber. The status of this redaction order has been changed from confidential to public per Chamber's decision of 15 March 2012.