I would add that this was a common complaint about ITF Masters that left the organization. It was often said that they were not sending in certificate fess to the organization. However, we must ask- which came 1st, the chicken or the egg? In other words, were the political views/asspirations that the Ambassador held & acted upon, what caused them to hold back. It makes sense that if one was leaving a group or had problems with it, they would not support it with their money. Or, did some promise students ITF certs, charge them for it & then not forward the fees? I don't know, but I do think both happened. I also wouldn't know which came 1st.However, I do really appreciate all the historical info that has been put forth in this thread. I also think that its great that we have the various points as well.

There always seemed to be bad mouthing when people left the ITF... within a short period of time they went from teaching and demonstrating for the General to apparently not having the corrrect updated techniques.

_________________________________________________________Gentlemen,To Robb and Chosun. You are the new guys on the block as far as forum participation. On occasion things flare up in the TKD threads. Thing get said. I would encourage you to be both cautious and gracious. You are guests here.__________________________________________________________

Agree and understood Oldman

To Sabum Steve (ChosunITF), I donít like propaganda dressed up as truth. Whether you personally believe that propaganda or not. I guess I donít know you as such Sabum Steve, however I would suggest you rewrite your profile on your schools website if you want the facts to be conveniently ignored. I would also propose you check the YinYang TKD website you preside over as ITF examiner and make some amendments. I do know Astwood, Hicks & Co well, please donít worry about me looking foolish (I know I am at times), your association and ignorance to past deeds should be your concern. Re: Astwood, I see Muleta is at fault, sorry, you may also check - it maybe just over 2 but not 5 years. I enjoy the fact an ITF examiner would base an ITF 3rd Dan promotion on RHEE TKD 1st Dan rank held by him - was it 3 years ago, but then who cares. Sincerely all the best with it mate, Iíve never liked 4x, have a Crownie on me, cheers.

To VDJ Ė I understand and am copasetic, you understand Master Rhee Chong Chul is my Master Instructor my responses are intrinsic. I donít agree with your statements regarding RTKD AUS (do not like the implicated comparison to ATA) but further typing would be futile. VDJ I would still please like some specifics on your martial arts back ground if possible?

To ITFunity Ė Yes I agree it is all good as long as it doesnít get to the nasty name calling stage!

RobbMember Gold Coast Titans National Rugby League Club35 year card holding member of Manley Library19 years RHEE TKD member ďnot a break away - as RHEE TKD has always been our Aus registered name/kwan Ė but was once ITF affiliated HOWEVER RHEE TKD is still very much ROK Government associated through Master Rhee Chong Chul.2 years Fighting Arts Forum loitererChosen style sign off :-)

I guess you just want to see what you want to see. I was not comparing your schools to ATA, just making a point, if you want to misinterpret what I am saying I can't help that, the futility seems to be on your part. As far as my martial arts background, I don't feel the same need as you to justify my training, whether it be who my instructor is or the org which I belong. I have trained with numerous people as a visitor to their schools and some of which post here on this board. I am confident in my abilities and what I have been taught (by all whom I have trained with). I don't know exactly what it is that I said that got under your skin, but again, why do you care what I think ? If you don't agree, so be it, no skin off my nose.

It is not propaganda. The question was asked as to Mr Rhee's departure from the ITF. I told them what the ITF had stated. It is only one side of the argument. I am sure that Mr Rhee has another version and in reality neither of us will know the exact truth. Perhaps it lays somewhere in between.

As for my history on my site, thank you but I do know it seeing that I wrote it. I am also glad that you know Hicks and Shane, I will ask them if they know you?

Lastly, Mr Muleta tested Shane to 3rd Dan in 2006. 18 months ago following him being a 2nd Dan since 2004. So he did not jump from 1st-3rd Dan. The ITF is clear on time requirements between gradings. Maybe Mr Rhee should remember that and not keep people on 1st Dan for 10 years or more.

However, lets not dwell on Mr Rhee's shortcomings, even though he did break away from the ITF.

Just so that you know, when I brought Mr Rhee Ki Ha to Australia in May this year, I arranged for him to meet with Mr Rhee, Jong Hyup in Melbourne. This was at my instigation and organisation as RJH was one of the founders of the ITF and a very good friend of Mr Rhee Ki Ha's. The meeting was very emotional, especially due to the fact that I believe that when Mr Rhee Ki Ha moved from Malaysia to Singapore, he paid the air ticket for Rhee Jong Hyup to leave Korea and take his place in Malaysia.

So you can be very certain Robb that we in the ITF in this country (especially the ex-Rhee members), know all too well the contribution that Rhee, Jong Hyup, Rhee, Jong chul, Yun, Young Kyu, Yang, Yoo Sup and Kim, Sok Pong made.

Yes please say hello to Lesley for me and ask him how lower his back issue is going, I hope all the shimming and janging hasnít made it worse. Also let Sabum Shane know Iím Robb from Kwan Jang Nim Nigelís classes, Shane and I are a similar age Ė if he thinks hard enough he'll remember me getting kicked around the class regularly by very big Jerry.H.

Re: Shaneís rank, he left RHEE TKD in Nov 2003 as a 1st Dan, but it is of no consequence now.

Much respect that you organised the GM Rhee Ki Ha and Master Rhee Chong Hyup meeting in Melbourne, I was unaware of this. I will be down in Victoria later this year on business and shall definitely get a few training session in under Master Rhee Chong Hyup at his Prahran Dojang including his killer regular Friday night Sabum class. I look forward to asking Master Rhee Chong Hyup about this special meeting you set up.

By all means ask Mr Rhee, Jong Hyup about the meeting. I actually have some nice pictures of the both of them together should you wish. They actually spent a good few hours together. I also arranged a similar meeting with GM Rhee and GM Yun, Young Kyu in Brisbane. So you see, we do not forget where we come from.

Jerry Hatter. I knew him when he was a yellow belt in Rockhampton working at the Stanwell Power Station. Actually have a couple of pictures of him, myself and Brian Nicholls together from that time. In fact I was there on Jerry's last day in Rockhampton, and have run into him a couple of times over the years. Spoke to him a few times about his time in Townsville with john Ivanov.

He may remember that on his last day, we were playing pool at his residence and I got a coffee from one of those instant coffee dispensing machines that had half a cockroach in it. Funny thing was he had the cup before me. Very nice gentleman.

Plz gentlemen dont resurect my introductory thread to argue all the political bs that goes along with Taekwondo (if u let it go along with it) Start a new thread or stop beating a dead horse.

On a better note, i am very proud to annouce that i graded for my first degree black belt on monday and passed. I am very proud to have attained my 1st degree black belt but i realise it is only the start of my journey :P

Look at the latest edition of Australasian TKD Magazine for an article on GM Rhee Ki Ha. In it he speaks of being the person who initially brought Rhee Jong Hyup from Korea to Malaysia, then brought him to Singapore to replace him when he left for the UK.

They were old friends and demonstrates the relationships that ITF people have with their old colleagues.

My respect again that you organised the Rhee Ki Ha & Rhee Chong Hyup meeting. In regards to those pictures if you would like to post them to Master Rhee Chong Hyup direct I can PM you his address or if you like you can send digital files to myself and I will have them printed off and deliver them on your behalf to Master Rhee Chong Hyup when I train in Melbourne under him later this year.

Sabum Jerry Ė good to hear you know him well. Jerry is a hell of a nice bloke but at 6 Foot 9 inches and 130 kiloís he can be extremely intimidating to spar against when you are only 6 foot and 90kiloís. Sabum Jerry is in his 40ís now but his flexibility is amazing and is technique strength is unbelievable, he is an icon in RTKD Aus. You may not know but Sabum Jerry was promoted to 4th Dan by Master Rhee Chong Chul last year which is lofty for us.

Thanks for your advice on Australasian TKD mag GM Rhee Ki Ha article I will buy magazine today and check it out, will be interesting.