Whatever the reason, people have the right to feel put out by it and others the right to be OK with it. Just because some aren't bothered doesn't make others claim any less legitimate.

Anyway those who are abit out out have voiced their concerns. Not sure jumping on them or arguing with them will make their grievance go away. The game isn't that important to me, if it was I'd carry on buying regardless however this still doesn't take away he fact I feel abit duped.

AGEOD released WW1Gold which I'm truly thankful for but I think until the decide to make a tactical game..hint hint..I shan't bother buying anymore games from them.

Whatever the reason, people have the right to feel put out by it and others the right to be OK with it. Just because some aren't bothered doesn't make others claim any less legitimate.

Anyway those who are abit out out have voiced their concerns. Not sure jumping on them or arguing with them will make their grievance go away. The game isn't that important to me, if it was I'd carry on buying regardless however this still doesn't take away he fact I feel abit duped.

AGEOD released WW1Gold which I'm truly thankful for but I think until the decide to make a tactical game..hint hint..I shan't bother buying anymore games from them.

So you like tactical games. Did you ever play AH's Squad Leader? That was a masterpiece!!!

And yes, the use of the word EXPANSION is very important if you are unable to understand it... expect that you never have problems in your life with words that made you take wrong decisions when they are used to confuse you.

AGEOD has lots of games and ihave practically ALL buyed first days of release BUT in none of them they say or use the words EXPANSION PACKS, they do all fine until AJE because they dont use false info with their customers... your argument is like i say "a killer is inocent because before his kill he was a legal guy, we cant judge him"

No - never had problems with words in my life - I just dont take the word expansion to mean a lot of stuff it may not do. Your interpretation of it is just that - an interpretation of it. Go look it up in a dictionary and I think you will find that nothing you presumed would follow from it is any part5 of its definition. I dont have an issue even with you complaining about it - its your accusation of deliberate dishonesty I find idiotic.

You got AJE because you didn't want it, but wanted future scenarios (whatever they might be or have been). Now, if BOR happens to be those scenarios you wanted, the fact that BOR is standalone means you will save money.

How? Sell your copy of AJE. You don't need it to run the BOR scenarios.

And if BOR does not have the scenarios you wanted you can wait for the next standalone game.

So now your total investment in the future scenarios is less than if BOR was not standalone. You win!

For me it isn't so much that I'm not interested in the time period; I will probably buy them both. I am more concerned that both versions be kept up to date if any new features are added. I hate playing a game in the series and trying to use a feature that doesn't exist in a previous game.

Posts: 3076
Joined: 11/26/2009 From: Living in the fair city of Melbourne, AustraliaStatus: offline

This is a very bad case of splitting hairs, guys. Some things to keep in mind:

1) As DBeves pointed earlier, the difference between the standalone pricing (20 euros) and the "standard" DLC multiplied by five (the number of scens in BoR) is just 5 euros. And it could be argued that scenarios such as the First Punic War - a conflict as complex as one can imagine in playable wargame - could be priced at a higher price than just 2.99 euros. To draw an analogy, Hannibal - which is an excellent game, by the way, covering the Second Punic War - is sold for 29.90 euros.

2) I can understand wodin betting on buying AJE to get further scenarios as DLC, even if I don't find that to be a very sound standpoint, but I can also understand those who didn't buy AJE because they don't give a fig about anything Roman after the Macedonic Wars. For whatever reason, AGEOD deemed "wodinites" to be a minority. (And I think the pre-orders for AJE didn't really come in the thousands either). This scheme - BOR standalone - plays in favour of the guys sitting on the fence for AJE.

3) Phil has posted on the AGEOD forums that whoever feels necessary to get BOR scenarios working under AJE only needs to get in touch with him over e-mail for instructions to do so.

4) AGEOD games DLC are sold exclusively on AGEOD's web store, you won't find them on Matrix nor Slitherine's. I can understand the market strategy followed here: the Punic Wars are a topic which would attract many fans of Field Of Glory. So publishing BOR standalone - and therefore, being it available from Slitherine and Matrix - helps in increasing the potential reach of BOR.

My only worry about this "Standalonegate" is that now AGEOD will have to do twice the same work to distribute patches - here I am assuming that both AJE and BOR use exactly the same version of the AGEOD engine. That strikes me as a potential source of problems for them. But this is totally different matter.

@Treale: Regarding playability. I think AJE is - by far - the most playable of AGE engine games. It's far more playable than ACW, both because the refinements in the user interface, clever design decisions regarding strategic options, the fact that warfare in the Ancient age is a matter of big field armies moving around and sieges and scale.

This is a very bad case of splitting hairs, guys. Some things to keep in mind:

1) As DBeves pointed earlier, the difference between the standalone pricing (20 euros) and the "standard" DLC multiplied by five (the number of scens in BoR) is just 5 euros. And it could be argued that scenarios such as the First Punic War - a conflict as complex as one can imagine in playable wargame - could be priced at a higher price than just 2.99 euros. To draw an analogy, Hannibal - which is an excellent game, by the way, covering the Second Punic War - is sold for 29.90 euros.

2) I can understand wodin betting on buying AJE to get further scenarios as DLC, even if I don't find that to be a very sound standpoint, but I can also understand those who didn't buy AJE because they don't give a fig about anything Roman after the Macedonic Wars. For whatever reason, AGEOD deemed "wodinites" to be a minority. (And I think the pre-orders for AJE didn't really come in the thousands either). This scheme - BOR standalone - plays in favour of the guys sitting on the fence for AJE.

3) Phil has posted on the AGEOD forums that whoever feels necessary to get BOR scenarios working under AJE only needs to get in touch with him over e-mail for instructions to do so.

4) AGEOD games DLC are sold exclusively on AGEOD's web store, you won't find them on Matrix nor Slitherine's. I can understand the market strategy followed here: the Punic Wars are a topic which would attract many fans of Field Of Glory. So publishing BOR standalone - and therefore, being it available from Slitherine and Matrix - helps in increasing the potential reach of BOR.

My only worry about this "Standalonegate" is that now AGEOD will have to do twice the same work to distribute patches - here I am assuming that both AJE and BOR use exactly the same version of the AGEOD engine. That strikes me as a potential source of problems for them. But this is totally different matter.

@Treale: Regarding playability. I think AJE is - by far - the most playable of AGE engine games. It's far more playable than ACW, both because the refinements in the user interface, clever design decisions regarding strategic options, the fact that warfare in the Ancient age is a matter of big field armies moving around and sieges and scale.

Well I dont think "distribution" of patches is necessarily a major issue - more what Challerain said regarding keeping both games up to date. That largely comes down to the code base. I have never understood why Tiller for example takes so long to update his games series as any one of them in the same series uses the same engine. That he has to do so would suggest inefficient coding practices in that he cant just update the engine and it takes care of all the games in a series. If AGEOD have coded efficiently keeping all the games in a series shouldnt be a hurdle at all.

Ageods plan was to make them expansions but we explained to them how many people who wanted BoR would not want to buy AJE as well just to get the missions from BoR so it made a lot more sense to make it stand alone so people could choose what they wanted. The plan is that small DLC packs like Cantabrian wars will remain expansions that require AJE but larger expansions like BoR will be stand alone so people can dip in at any time. This is best for gamers and best for us. AJE was released before Ageod joined the group. The pricing was planned to be the same either way - making it stand alone has not increased the price. There is no conspiracy theory about trying to con you in to buying AJE. There is no reason to moan. If we'd merged soon the change would have happened sooner. Lets not waste time arguing about something so unimportant! :)

-Is a joke that you say is not important this when the change in distribution by stand alone games improve the price of the final product (a DLC scen cost 3 euros in stand alone cost 4) and force players that want more scens pay for scen packs no the scens they want (i only want 2 of the scens in ROR) and force them have more than 1 game installed when are the same engine with diferent scens.

-If this game model of stand alone is to made customer buy the "pack" he wants... WTF you dont do the same in your Field of Glory (i buy all except the last army pack) or Battlefield (i only buy the french pack)??? then this model is good for your games but bad for AGEOD games...

-Important things for me are the things i say not they things you say and i know at least 5 guys more that like me are going to buy ROR IF WE BUY IT!!! only in a special.

I buy AJE in preorder in AGEOD, i support them buying their games but this movement made me take the decision of dont buy more AGEOD games in preorder or first days, i feel cheated and as we say in my country "one and no more".

I know others that buy ROR an expect they enjoy it but after AGEOD change in their anounced plans i am going to see facts no promises before buy something from them.

EDIT: for me the problem is reduce to the AGEOD change in anounced plans (that where my buy info line because they never change them), for me (because my grandpa teach me this) a man value is on his words, if is unable to mantein their words/promises dont give him credibility... only believe 50% of the things he do and 0% of things he says.

Ageods plan was to make them expansions but we explained to them how many people who wanted BoR would not want to buy AJE as well just to get the missions from BoR so it made a lot more sense to make it stand alone so people could choose what they wanted. The plan is that small DLC packs like Cantabrian wars will remain expansions that require AJE but larger expansions like BoR will be stand alone so people can dip in at any time. This is best for gamers and best for us. AJE was released before Ageod joined the group. The pricing was planned to be the same either way - making it stand alone has not increased the price. There is no conspiracy theory about trying to con you in to buying AJE. There is no reason to moan. If we'd merged soon the change would have happened sooner. Lets not waste time arguing about something so unimportant! :)

I knew it, you're the meddlers. It was a bit sneaky keeping the lid on this till just before release.

Ageods plan was to make them expansions but we explained to them how many people who wanted BoR would not want to buy AJE as well just to get the missions from BoR so it made a lot more sense to make it stand alone so people could choose what they wanted. The plan is that small DLC packs like Cantabrian wars will remain expansions that require AJE but larger expansions like BoR will be stand alone so people can dip in at any time. This is best for gamers and best for us. AJE was released before Ageod joined the group. The pricing was planned to be the same either way - making it stand alone has not increased the price. There is no conspiracy theory about trying to con you in to buying AJE. There is no reason to moan. If we'd merged soon the change would have happened sooner. Lets not waste time arguing about something so unimportant! :)

The whole thing makes perfect sense to me. I really don't understand why some people have their panties in a twist!! I bought AJE and it's too cumbersome for me. I may try BOR because it looks like it would be more manageable because it covers less territory? I really like the BOR period better too....

Ageods plan was to make them expansions but we explained to them how many people who wanted BoR would not want to buy AJE as well just to get the missions from BoR so it made a lot more sense to make it stand alone so people could choose what they wanted. The plan is that small DLC packs like Cantabrian wars will remain expansions that require AJE but larger expansions like BoR will be stand alone so people can dip in at any time. This is best for gamers and best for us. AJE was released before Ageod joined the group. The pricing was planned to be the same either way - making it stand alone has not increased the price. There is no conspiracy theory about trying to con you in to buying AJE. There is no reason to moan. If we'd merged soon the change would have happened sooner. Lets not waste time arguing about something so unimportant! :)

That makes sense to me as I am one of those guys, much more interested in Birth of Rome and don't care much about AJE.

Posts: 3076
Joined: 11/26/2009 From: Living in the fair city of Melbourne, AustraliaStatus: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DBeves Well I dont think "distribution" of patches is necessarily a major issue - more what Challerain said regarding keeping both games up to date.

Note Matrix patching policy: each patch needs to get wrapped with an installer (with slightly different artwork in each case) and goes through a QA phase. That's doubling the publishing work.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DBeves That largely comes down to the code base. I have never understood why Tiller for example takes so long to update his games series as any one of them in the same series uses the same engine. That he has to do so would suggest inefficient coding practices in that he cant just update the engine and it takes care of all the games in a series. If AGEOD have coded efficiently keeping all the games in a series shouldnt be a hurdle at all.

Good point regarding Tiller's games, DBeves. Regarding AGEOD I think that might well be the case. Note that updates for all their games tend to be released more or less within the same time frame. Which I think points towards them having a good management of code, artwork and data.

Ageods plan was to make them expansions but we explained to them how many people who wanted BoR would not want to buy AJE as well just to get the missions from BoR so it made a lot more sense to make it stand alone so people could choose what they wanted. The plan is that small DLC packs like Cantabrian wars will remain expansions that require AJE but larger expansions like BoR will be stand alone so people can dip in at any time. This is best for gamers and best for us. AJE was released before Ageod joined the group. The pricing was planned to be the same either way - making it stand alone has not increased the price. There is no conspiracy theory about trying to con you in to buying AJE. There is no reason to moan. If we'd merged soon the change would have happened sooner. Lets not waste time arguing about something so unimportant! :)

That makes sense to me as I am one of those guys, much more interested in Birth of Rome and don't care much about AJE.

Thanks for convincing them.

Thats great for those who haven't already bought AJE however those who did because they believed they had to own it have a right to grumble..you where thinking of future customers but not the ones who already parted with their money thinking they needed the core game..yes it was a great price and all. Also yes if it was the case and we needed it yes we'd still have had to pay for BOR..however it turned out we didn't need it so say we really wanted BOR we've paid out double we had too. It may be unimportant to Slitherine and others, but not to those who payed out when they didn't need to.

Anyway I know it wasn't a conspiracy..I just think those who already had paid up thinking they needed it haven't been considered. Sort of well we've got their money already anyway.

Ageods plan was to make them expansions but we explained to them how many people who wanted BoR would not want to buy AJE as well just to get the missions from BoR so it made a lot more sense to make it stand alone so people could choose what they wanted. The plan is that small DLC packs like Cantabrian wars will remain expansions that require AJE but larger expansions like BoR will be stand alone so people can dip in at any time. This is best for gamers and best for us. AJE was released before Ageod joined the group. The pricing was planned to be the same either way - making it stand alone has not increased the price. There is no conspiracy theory about trying to con you in to buying AJE. There is no reason to moan. If we'd merged soon the change would have happened sooner. Lets not waste time arguing about something so unimportant! :)

That makes sense to me as I am one of those guys, much more interested in Birth of Rome and don't care much about AJE.

Thanks for convincing them.

Thats great for those who haven't already bought AJE however those who did because they believed they had to own it have a right to grumble..you where thinking of future customers but not the ones who already parted with their money thinking they needed the core game..yes it was a great price and all. Also yes if it was the case and we needed it yes we'd still have had to pay for BOR..however it turned out we didn't need it so say we really wanted BOR we've paid out double we had too. It may be unimportant to Slitherine and others, but not to those who payed out when they didn't need to.

Anyway I know it wasn't a conspiracy..I just think those who already had paid up thinking they needed it haven't been considered. Sort of well we've got their money already anyway.

If AEGOD stayed independent it would have probably went that way? But with the merger all bets were off! I've been through several of them, and each time they said nothing will change, I ducked!!! Because it sure did change

I eventually bought it because I like the era. BOR stand alone surprised me as well, and I agree with wodin. I don't feel like paying the same price for what is essentially an expansion (scenario pack), no matter what semantics and reasoning you wrap it up in. On the bright side, it is already relatively cheap compared to most Matrix offerings.

-Is a joke that you say is not important this when the change in distribution by stand alone games improve the price of the final product (a DLC scen cost 3 euros in stand alone cost 4) and force players that want more scens pay for scen packs no the scens they want (i only want 2 of the scens in ROR) and force them have more than 1 game installed when are the same engine with diferent scens.

Who says they would have all been priced at that level ? The price you are using is for the existing DLC which are very small. Say the larger ones went for 7 or 8 euro ? Then it seems you have a bargain paying for standalone

quote:

-If this game model of stand alone is to made customer buy the "pack" he wants... WTF you dont do the same in your Field of Glory (i buy all except the last army pack) or Battlefield (i only buy the french pack)??? then this model is good for your games but bad for AGEOD games...

Yes. Its their business not yours.

quote:

I buy AJE in preorder in AGEOD, i support them buying their games but this movement made me take the decision of dont buy more AGEOD games in preorder or first days, i feel cheated and as we say in my country "one and no more".

Then you have even less reason to complain. Cause they sure as hell didnt say anything about all content for the next thousand years being available in separate DLC packs then

quote:

I know others that buy ROR an expect they enjoy it but after AGEOD change in their anounced plans i am going to see facts no promises before buy something from them.

Which if you were sensible and didnt want the content in the original is what you should have done in the first place.

quote:

EDIT: for me the problem is reduce to the AGEOD change in anounced plans (that where my buy info line because they never change them), for me (because my grandpa teach me this) a man value is on his words, if is unable to mantein their words/promises dont give him credibility... only believe 50% of the things he do and 0% of things he says.

Its 20 euros - not your life savings - and you have an excellent working game for the money. You seriously need to get some perspective. you have probably spent more in electricity running your computer typing your complaints than you did for the original game.

It's not about the money for me. It's the bloat on the hard drives having to duplicate the same engine over and over again, every time a new period is released, not to mention having to update multiple times when a patch is released. Imagine the grief if all the Panzer Corps scenario packs were standalone.

For those interested, a beta quickfix patch for BOR is available on Ageod forums.

Aside from several corrections, this:

NEW FEATURE

BOR becomes AJE-aware! Birth of Rome is now capable of using the AJE scenarios, if you installed it anywhere on your PC! Both games remain standalone, meaning you don't need to buy AJE to play BOR scenarios, but now, if you bought AJE, you only need to launch BOR to get the scenarios of both games!

Sometimes the whining about the cost of entertainment really get me wondering. Like it is not about food or medicine or water or air. These are games. These are programs we put on larger devices in order to have fun. The larger devices cost one hundred times more than the programs we buy to entertain ourselves for a little while. Talk about disposable. I would be willing to bet most buy more than they play. That is to say the few who buy one and play it exclusively are the exception. We are blowing or wasting money to have fun. Like spending about the same to go to a movie. Less than it costs to have a fun meal out. A heck of a lot less than a golf round or other decadent activity.

Slitherine and AGEOD are feeling their way along. They changed their minds and offered new content as a stand alone product when they initially said they would be offering DLC to the game engine. It is no big deal. They are not trying to rip anybody off. They aren't getting rich. They ain't like the Wall Street bankers or Bernie Madoff or the like. They did not intentionally try to defraud or steal from you. This is peanuts and they are good people and their product is worth a heck of a lot more than they are able to charge. This is for fun. This a few bucks we get to blow in order to have a good time. It is a lot better than a lot of things I have wasted money on to have a good time. I don't regret spending a bit extra for these games. I look on it as investment in R & D.

If I really didn't like the first AJE because of the period it represented I would sure as heck have waited till the release of stuff I liked then bought them both.

If blowing a few bucks on entertainment is a big deal then I suggest there are cheaper ways to have a good time that won't stress you nearly as much. I recall a time when this was the case for me. It may come again but I won't be whining about it.

Could someone please post a link to the hotfix patch? I would like BOR to scan for AJE scenarios. That's a handy feature. I have searched the AGEOD forums and I'll be darned if I can find the patch, or even a mention of it in a post.

This is nothing compared as to what goes on over at Gary Grigsby’s War in the East forum. They are down right nasty with the Dev's. Calling them Everything from Russian Lovers, German Haters and Communist! It's so bad that I just check in once in awhile. I can't believe that the most ardent complainers are still playing the game??