I don't know if you can see it. Look closely: that is the replica of the Liberty Bell under all those signs:

This is the back of the Veteran's Memorial, with all sorts of notices taped onto it and junk piled up against it.

Meade and I confronted the protesters who maintained what they called their "information station." That's Meade in the baseball cap during the confrontation:

I'll have video of the Veterans Memorial confrontation on YouTube and this blog very soon. The video includes a protester telling me that Meade and I are the first — "literally the first" — persons to object to their treatment of the memorial.

Wow. I am appalled at what these folks have done to our capitol. What blatant disrespect and self centered selfish behavior. They have made the capitol look like one of those campus kiosks with crap stapled all over it. Further, they look more like squatters than people who are serious about proper governance. Throw the bums out and lets return proper decorum to our beautiful state capitol.

Every one of the men memorialized on that Veterans Memorial is worth ten of the "protesting" douchebags.It's no wonder the whole country hates them and their cause.The "Wisconsin Shirker Rebellion" has failed at every turn.

I read this blog daily and have for a long time, but I've never uttered a peep until now.

Thank you Ann and Meade for your coverage of the Madison events. I've come here for the news and your insights every few hours round the clock, and have never been disappointed. There isn't a news source or blog site in the country that can approach what you've accomplished and I thank you very much.

All that creativity, energy and time. Why has this not been translated to a thriving, vibrant and growing Wisconsin economy? Why does Racine increasingly resemble a 3rd. world ghetto with abandoned and boarded up buildings. Empty or bulldozed factories. Small business closing down... "We just couldn't make it economically"? A wave of crime that is growing.

Shared sacrifice? It went away with the WWII generation. For the Boomers, it's all about ME, and getting mine. Living large and conspicious consumption.

The Nation is polarizing and will be torn apart again. Gen X and Y are being asked to pay for the excesses of the Boomers. Austerity is coming.

Yeah, your blog has been indispensable for understanding what was going on. We are all going to have to face this one. Here in California, it will probably be in some sort of receivership because our entire legislature is like the gang of 14.

I wonder how many demonstrators in the capitol knew who La Follette was. I'll bet damn few. History seems to be the first to go. Sort of like 1984.

"There is nothing anywhere about taxing the rich in order to give money to the poor."

My guess is it is not as much a genuine attempt to convey the teachings of Jesus, but more of an attempt to be clever in light of perceived, expected opposition from conservatives who are assumed to be Christian.

It is interesting to me that one instance where Jesus does talk about taxation, he says we should give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's. Which has been twisted to mean all sorts of things. Mostly, Jesus was avoiding the question meant to trap him into choosing a side, and saying we should do what we are responsible for doing.

However, there's also the key instance of Jesus addressing a rich man. The man asked what he needed to do to inherit eternal life. Jesus responded that he needed to sell everything and give it to the poor. The man couldn't do it, and walked away.

Jesus let him walk away.

Giving to and helping the poor is absolutely a Christian mandate. But, it is always a voluntary call we take on ourselves. So, the message on the sign is entirely wrong.

The video includes a protester telling me that Meade and I are the first — "literally the first" — persons to object to their treatment of the memorial.

Is there a place more isolated from the military community than Madison , Wisconsin?

They are screaming about their resources being cut-while they are 100 percent behind cutting the defense department.

The resources the military whose lives perhaps are dependent on that now and into the future.

They don't mind divvying up the military resources behind the backs of the men and women out in theater, amongst those that stayed safely behind.

They don't mind doing that to that small faction of Americans willing to die for their country because who needs their vote?

And hell just to make sure that the military vote doesn't count-send them their ballots out too late and question the hell out of them when they do arrive.

These are the same Liberals that use to cry about the Sudan, and didn't care about the mass graves of children and Kurds in Iraq, and if it was Bush in power right now warships should be able to turn on a time and save the people of Libya-but they don't care. They have never cared all they have ever cared about is their won selfishness, their hand outs and ripping down America.

CNN shows you Libya because they supposedly "care".

But that's just it- in Iraq they couldn't prosper from the slaughter their was-

And of course there are conservatives willing to facilitate that treachery, willing to align themselves with the Democrats to divvy up the resources while the best men and women of America are in harm's way.

I like what Stanley Hauerwas, a Christian ethicist (and not even close to being a political conservative) says:

Whenever Christians think that we can support our ethic by simply pressuring Congress to pass laws or to spend tax money, we fail to do justice to the radically communal quality of Christian ethics.In fact, much of what passes for Christian concern today, of the left or of the right, is the social concern of a church that seems to have despaired being the church.

Unable through our preaching, baptism, and witness to form a visible community of faith, we content ourselves with ersatz Christian ethical activity -- lobbying Congress to support progressive strategies, asking the culture at large to be a little less racist, a little less promiscuous, a little less violent.

Falwell's Moral Majority is little different from any mainline Protestant church that opposes him. Both groups imply that one can practice Christian ethics without being in the Christian community.

Both begin with the Constantinian assumption that there is no way for the gospel to be present in our world without asking the world to support our convictions through its own social and political institutionalization. The result is the gospel transformed into civil religion.

All the WW II vets in my family were union men. My FIL the marine sat down at Dodge Main in 1937. My MIL's brother fought on Iwo Jima. Honoring labor honors those brave men. They would not mind any labor signs on the memorial meant to honor them.

All the WW II vets in my family were union men. My FIL the marine sat down at Dodge Main in 1937. My MIL's brother fought on Iwo Jima. Honoring labor honors those brave men. They would not mind any labor signs on the memorial meant to honor them.

I'll bet they weren't public sector unions. Do you distinguish them from unions which represent workers in the private industry?

All the WW II vets in my family were union men. My FIL the marine sat down at Dodge Main in 1937. My MIL's brother fought on Iwo Jima. Honoring labor honors those brave men. They would not mind any labor signs on the memorial meant to honor them.

Yeah, Wisconsin's unionized DMV clerks with their 22 vacation days and 12 sick days a year are just like the Homestead strikers of 1895. Or maybe like Norma Rae. Whatever. Still more drama from the resident drama queen.

The mere fact that this "union activity" is occurring inside the Capitol instead of on the streets or in front of a private sector workplace is telling. This is a fundamentally different beast. This is fight over what government means.

How will picket lines at the local schools play in the eyes of the public?

The casual, unthinking, reflexive defacement of war memorials and statuary commemorating famous historical figures by lefty "protesters" in the furtherance of their "great causes" is commonplace anymore--taken for granted, indeed de rigueur, almost--these days. ESPECIALLY if white men of European ancestry are depicted or memorialized. Which is why those you approached expressed such genuine amazement, Ann. And they were probably telling the truth. Unfortunately this has gone on for so long--been ALLOWED to go on for so long--that the general public has become inured to it, sad to say..

Are they seriously claiming that people in Egypt are donating food to spoiled brats in Madison Wisconsin? If that is true, aren't you absolutley embarassed to take it? I mean, why wouldn't you, if you were a serious person, ask them to donate that money/food to someone in their own country who REALLY needs it?

That girl thought that was just charming, but it really is just an indication of how full of yourself you really are, that you would accept such a gift when other people need it so much more.

And of course they rationalize/justify such actions (as I've just described, above) to themselves AND their critics by claiming that those so memorialized fought and died for the right to hold *exactly* the sort of "lawful" protests they themselves are presently conducting--ignoring the minor detail that in all probability at least 50% of those memorialized would have strongly disagreed with their views and resented the appropriated use of such memorials honoring their sacrifices and/or deaths as cloaking them (the protesters) with the implied imprimatur/endorsement of their actions by those long dead so honored.

Your welcome, and continual thanx to American soldiers, sailors, marines etc. who are currently serving on the front lines in Iraq, Afghanistan as Afghanistan appears to be the forgotten war, except to families who have a loved one in-country.

No one party/entity has a monopoly on patriotism as much as Bush43/Cheney tried to divide the country ie You're either w/us or against us nonsense.

I'm glad you spent time looking for objectionable things the thousands of protesters are doing at the Capitol. It is not fair to the elite who prefer it to be all tidy and such to have it cluttered with homemade signs objecting to Governor Walker's perfectly acceptable bill. Maybe you could have suggested they should have framed oil paintings placed cleanly and neatly in the Capitol halls to make you feel better. It is such annoyance to have your sense of aesthetics disturbed by these middle class folks and students.

The demonstrators are opportunistic, attention whore pigs. Their sow is threatened, and so they shit everywhere. Pimps making big money off the public largesse turn the capital into a Hooverville, and they don't even get the joke.

Sad Wisconsin,Weep Wisconsin,Lay down every time,Let the pigs crap in your bedsUntil they steal you blind(ha, ha, ha)

Mark 10:25 Jesus said, "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

I also think Jesus despised drummers, particularly those who reek of patchouli oil. I'm with him on that. I mean can that protest cliche please die. I'm with the union folks, but that incessant drumming is just annoying to 90% of the people on Earth.

How quickly things change. After 9/11 the right wrapped themselves in the Flag, and worshipped the ground cops and firefighters walked on. Now they're pigs and parasites. Just goes to show you, yet again, you can never trust a conservative. On anything.

Tax the rich? That always seems to be the response of the Left. So, with that in mind:1)What determines "rich"? 5 mil, 1 mil, 500K, 250K, 100K?2)Who decides who's "rich"? Feds, state, local, your neighbors?3)How much to tax? 50%, 75%, 99%?4)What will be done with the revenue? Infrastructure upkeep, local services (police, fire, etc), welfare?

I can answer this. Let me put on my 'progressive hat' first...

'The Rich' are anyone who makes more than I do. They should be taxed until they don't make more than I do. Use the money to make sure that I never have any difficulties in my life all ever, and I can have all the cool things my neighbor has without having to work for it. Cuz, in the Bible Jesus said "Give me your shit, Cake-eater" or something.

How quickly things change. After 9/11 the right wrapped themselves in the Flag, and worshipped the ground cops and firefighters walked on. Now they're pigs and parasites. Just goes to show you, yet again, you can never trust a conservative. On anything.

I'm not seeing cops and fireman crashing in the rotunda, trashing the place, and acting like complete self-absorbed selfish spoiled brats, are you?

wv: reamitin. You taxpayers best be reamitin your money to us public sector employees, or we'll stop bathing and start drumming

Don't dare compare the 9/11 heroes to the pigs who are trashing your capital. Pathetic.

Firefighters have been one of the most visible and vocal presence at the Capitol, around it, and inside it. Many are sleeping in the Capitol. A police group is sleeping there tonight.Still want to go with "pigs" at the Capitol?

The gang of 14 were elected to the legislature. Then when democracy got too tough for them they took their football and left the state. I hope and pray the Republican's don't cave.

As another poster earlier noted, California (my state) will shortly go under. There's nothing that can be done about it, given the politics of the people who control government here, but as we sink beneath the wave of history into socialism, bankruptcy and welfare-state-itis, it still would be nice to know that somewhere in America there are politicians ready and willing to do the right thing.

“Law enforcement officers know the difference between right and wrong, andGovernor Walker’s attempt to eliminate the collective voice of Wisconsin’sdevoted public employees is wrong,” continued Palmer. “That is why we havestood with our fellow employees each day and why we will be sleeping amongthem tonight.” Link

These protests are completely about greed and power. The public unions have a system where they can soak the taxpayers, including the middle class they pretend so much to care about, for all they can get. Now that they've take too much and those taxpayers elected someone to put a stop to it they're crying, "Foul!"

Unions have a long history of thuggery and violence. I just caught the end of "On the Waterfront" (1954) with Marlon Brando. imdb.com description: "An ex-prize fighter turned longshoreman struggles to stand up to his corrupt union bosses." Sure , it's not a true story but it's a story of the times, like Dickens' writings.

Anybody remember the Joseph Yablonski murders? "On December 31, 1969, three hitmen shot Yablonski, his wife Margaret, and his 25-year-old daughter Charlotte, as they slept in the Yablonski home in Clarksville, Pennsylvania. The bodies were discovered on January 5, 1970, by Yablonski's son, Kenneth. The killings had been ordered by Boyle, who had demanded Yablonski's death on June 23, 1969, after a meeting with Yablonski at UMWA headquarters degenerated into a screaming match. In September 1969, UMWA executive council member Albert Pass received $20,000 from Boyle (who had embezzled the money from union funds) to hire gunmen to kill Yablonski."

Of course, there's Jimmy Hoffa.

Claiming unions represent freedom, the middle class, excellence in education, all that is goodness and light is the height of absurdity. Quite the opposite in most cases. The unions protesting today represent at least five of the seven deadly sins: as anger, greed, sloth, pride, and envy.

None of the WW II vets in my family were. Not my father, the only WW II vet closely related. Nor, the man next door who also fought in Iwo Jima. Nor, my sister's father-in-law who was captured by the Germans at the Rapido River. Nor, my past landlord who had his leg blown off at the Rapido River. Nor, my high school friend's father, who also fought the Germans. Etc, etc.

We could play this game forever. But, I suspect I'm older than you and knew a lot more WW II vets than you and a lot more Vietnam vets. Plus, I have a nephew in Afghanistan right now and another who graduated from West Point last year and will be going to Afghanistan. No union members in their families either.

after watching the whole video, i have to say I empathize with the protesters here even though I don't agree with them on the issue of the day.

War memorials are not on their radar. That is a bad thing, but it is indicative of their youth and lack of perspective. Yes, it hurts their argument but I can kind of forgive people of the age being interviewed here.

And all the crap is taped to the rear of the memorial. Maybe that is a meaningless distinction to many but I'd say it actually indicates they did have some sensitivity to try not to disturb the perceived aesthetics of the memorial.

So yeah, this was a poor and stupid spot to camp out at. But, eve as someone who things they are stupid and wrong on the issue at play, I find it hard to get super worked up about it the way Meade is.

I have no idea if fire fighters and policemen are among the most vocal groups in Madison, and I doubt that you do either. The media show mostly punks and pud knockers--I'll stick with pigs. The police and firemen that I know wouldn't traffic with such idiots, scum and misguided children.

So you're equating a teacher's union protest over fat benefits during a recession with hundreds of police and firefighters dying while trying to save others?

It's not just teachers. I don't think you get it. A lot of private sector unions are joining, because they know they're next. We sat next to a table of machinist union members from IL that drove up for tomorrows rally.

Hey thanks for the link garage. I guess there'll be no more donations to the policeman's balls for a while at my end. Yeah I know I'm in California and they're in Wisconsin, but this thing is spreading like a contagion.

It's not just teachers. I don't think you get it. A lot of private sector unions are joining, because they know they're next. We sat next to a table of machinist union members from IL that drove up for tomorrows rally.

I suppose the cops could help raise taxes at gunpoint if that's what you really think the solution should be. The firemen could standby by and let a Reichstag or two burn down. _________________wv = "indett" That's the problem, in a nutshell.

Aviation Electrician school Millington, TN 1977 "we" called it 'Buford Pusser' country ie redneckville, USA they still had Sambo restaurants there. After school NAS Norfolk, HSL-34, helicopter squadron. We had (8) detachments which detached to small ships:

Was never ship's company as we only detached and went back to our squadron after the cruise.

First cruise, African/S. American Jan. 16 to April 4, 1978 on the Spruance DD-963. Became a shellback on my first cruise as we crossed the equator at 00 latitude/longitude, Greenwich Meridian on Feb. 14, Valentine's Day. My first port Casablanca, Morocco ~ nothing like the movie lol

Crossed the Atlantic, Salvador, Brazil, Rio de Janeiro March 10 to 17, back to Salvador, Barbados then home. Show the flag cruise (80) days in port half the time and (1) week in Rio. :)

While at HSL-34 also served on Comte de Grasse DD-974, Briscoe DD-977, Stump DD-978, FF-1097 Moinster and FF-1056 Connole.

The Briscoe is the ship JFK, Jr. his wife and her sister were buried at sea on.

(2) Med cruises, (1) N. Atlantic.

Changed my rate to Data Systems Technician ~ Computer school Vallejo, CA "Mare Island" 1981/82. Was on my (5th) extension when I re-enlisted for (6) years and got a rather large signing bonus. Was lucky I got lump sum, 'cause right after I re-enlisted the military started to pro-rate signing bonuses.

Shore Duty, Dam Neck, VA. They had a Seal Team stationed there. Could always tell they were Seals 'cause some of them had long hair. There was also a pig farm in the area ;)

Sea Duty, U.S.S. Saratoga, ship's company, Mayport, FL 1985/1988. (2) more Med cruises. '85/'86 (8) mo. Med/Indian Ocean cruise ~ AchilleLauro incident for those of you who remember Leon Klinghoffer in a wheelchair being killed by terrorists. The Sara was linking w/the U.S.S. Yorktown's radar and was tracking every aircraft in the Mediterranean.

btw, 'Top Gun' was too funny during the final crisis incident when they launched (2) F-14s as had it been an actual crisis situation, every frickin' fighter and attack aircraft would have been in the air and no Virginia, catapults on a carrier are never, ever down. The Sara was one of the oldest carriers, decommissioned in the mid '90s and none of the operational (3) catapults were ever down for maintenance at sea.

It's not just teachers. I don't think you get it. A lot of private sector unions are joining, because they know they're next. We sat next to a table of machinist union members from IL that drove up for tomorrows rally.

In other words, it's like I said:

The Dems don't understand the difference between public and private - and those that do are keeping quiet to exploit the collective fear.

former law student @ 8:48pm:"All the WW II vets in my family were union men. My FIL the marine sat down at Dodge Main in 1937. My MIL's brother fought on Iwo Jima. Honoring labor honors those brave men. They would not mind any labor signs on the memorial meant to honor them.

"What war did Meade fight in, again? "

Isn't it lovely of you to use your family members' service to give you absolute moral authority so that you may question Meade?

Since you didn't serve either I question your standing on the shoulders of better men to make pronouncements in their stead. You're a [insert a long string of expletives here] and I'm sure a miserable human being.

A lot of private sector unions are joining, because they know they're next

And?

Unions comprise 7% of the private sector workforce -- less, when you consider that the American auto industry is not publicly owned.

I guess they could go on strike... in the middle of a recession... with millions of unemployed Americans who would cheerfully do their jobs for a lot less... but I can't say I'd recommend it.

The latest Pew poll of American attitudes towards unions found that a plurality of swing voters had an unfavorable opinion of them -- 46% unfavorable to 41% favorable. Negative views towards unions also correlated with increased likelihood of voting.

Times are tough, at least for people who don't live off the government tit. If you want to choose this moment to pit non-union Americans against unionized ones... hell, BRING IT.

I watched the Poliwood episode talking about strikes in Hollywood and how unions formed to address legitimate grievances drove film production right out of California due to mission creep.

But "essential" services can't be driven out, no matter how much mission creep. There is no end to the taxpayer and local governments simply having to take it.

"Hollywood" is almost a metaphor for any film or television production in America since it's become so dispersed. Worse, it's moving out of the country altogether. Detroit and Flint are ghost towns, but unions can congratulate themselves that they held firm.

There is a balance that happens with industry. There are natural limitations and consequences. When the bills can't be paid the business, the corporation, folds. The goose dies.

What are those balance points with government? Schools? Police? Emergency and essential services?

When does the police department close it's doors? When does the state Dept. of Education sell off remaining assets and turn out the lights?

How so? Union membership is minuscule in the United States. ~12%, I believe is the national average. Out of those members, how many are going to vote Republican anyway?

I think it's finally getting through to Republicans that it really doesn't pay to cater to tiny, but loud, groups. Unions are dying; why should Republicans get in the way of that? Why should they support - in any way - groups that are inimical to their beliefs and policies?

The Republicans have not overreached. If anything, their approach has been too restrained. They've been playing by the rules in a game that has no rules. I really think they should take the gloves off already.

That doesn't follow. You'd be almost 60 years old by now, but your conversations here don't reflect the life experience or wisdom possessed by a man of that age. Especially one with a military background.

The people in these pics and video are basically kids. THey didn't grow up with any exposure to the military probably. They are clueless about this stuff. THey are, obviously, wrong but really... I can't even blame them. THey are too young to know better. You can see it in their eyes how they just - dont - get - what the big deal is. THey are focuses on INTENT and they didn't mean any offense. It doesn't register with them that their intent is not necessarily that important, and it's their ignorance that comes across.

This is a great example of how clueless these folks are. But mostly I just feel bad for them as they try and respond to the inquisition they find themselves in. It reminds me of being a college sophomore and taking a 300-level philosophy class.

THey will either figure it out... or decide to revel in these days at the Capitol for the rest of their lives.

Actually the U.S.S. Shiloh was a Ticonderoga (CG 47) - Class like the U.S.S. Yorktown, second in its class, which was w/the Sara in the Med during the Achille Lauro incident.

Ships named after famous American battles.

My 1st ship, Spruance, a destroyer, was the first of its class named after famous Admirals. "We" called it the 1st and the worst ;) er 1st and the finest! The Comte de Grasse was named after a French Admiral which helped America during the Revolutionary War.

Gasp, an American ship named after a Frenchman!

The Yorktown had the latest, top of the line, Aegis computer/radar, 3,000 mile radius, system which is why the Sara was linking w/it to track every aircraft in the Med.

Our original cruise schedule was (6) mos. in the Indian Ocean, maybe Mombasa, Kenya for Christmas, but after the Achille Lauro incident we were #1 on the hit parade and went to Singapore for Christmas/New Years and the Dallas Cowboy's Cheerleaders U.S.O. show visited the Sara while we were at sea.

@Fen: It's because he's lying. Like those anti-war vets the Times kept interviewing before they discovered they were actually sociopaths who read a few biographies and adopted the mannerisms and tics of real vets vicariously through those books. I think four or five were eventually exposed for what they were. Creepy stuff.

In truth, Jesus said, "For the poor you have always with you: but me you have not always."The left is always corrupting the words of Jesus to meet their own desires.The 8th Commandment says, "Thou shalt not steal". Taxing the rich to take care of the poor is stealing.When are these liars and bums going to move out of the WI State House? When are the fleebaggers going to do their job? Just like their desecration of the war memorial in that building, their protests are damaging their own cause. Me thinks they do protesteth too much.

DD214 lol co-incidentally I have (2) because you receive an Honorable Discharge before you re-enlist. Interesting after I graduated Data Systems Tech A school, many in my class suggested I not re-enlist and screw the navy because that's when you re-enlist for (6) years and go to 'C' school, but I wouldn't have got my signing bonus, big drawback, eh.

Also have my ASVAB scores and ironically my lowest score was EI electrical information, so naturally I became an aviation electrician, although pretty much aced the rest of the test, scoring 98 percentile overall. They wanted me to go Nuke, but they want everyone w/a high score to go nuclear program 'cause of the high attrition rate, but that was a (6) year deal and as Bush41 would say, didn't seem prudent ;) at the time.

If I had to do it all over, probably would have picked Cryptologic Tech.

>

One score Fen did very poorly on was AD er attention to detail ...

>

As an aside, many try to switch their state of record to FL, TX, CT etc. ie a state which doesn't have a state income tax before they receive the signing bonus. If memory serves paid OH $700 in state tax on my bonus.

"That doesn't follow. You'd be almost 60 years old by now, but your conversations here don't reflect the life experience or wisdom possessed by a man of that age. Especially one with a military background."

ie. I'm still calling you a poser.

shiloh: blah. blah blah. blah

I ask for your DD214 and you just keep repeating the anecdotes of a military profile.

That doesn't follow. You'd be almost 60 years old by now, but your conversations here don't reflect the life experience or wisdom possessed by a man of that age. Especially one with a military background.

What gives them the right to turn the Capitol into a leftwing convention hall?

That is an area of memorials, in the same way a cemetery is a place of memorials. It's not a place for them to set up booths to distribute anarchist/left-wing recruitment materials. Rent a hall somewhere if you want to do that.

And who do they think is going to pick up their literature anyway? Other left-wingers, of course. But they already know all that crap...they have the same slogans on the pamphlets and handouts and THEIR booth a couple of pillars over.

Basically the whole thing is a left-wing masturbation session where they can party for a few days and get away from Mom and Dad asking questions about when they're going to think about getting a job and moving out of the basement. They don't like thinking about that because their political science/women's studies double major isn't turning out to be the job magnet they'd hoped.

I'd like to congratulate Ann for covering this abomination of a scandalous dereliction of duty by the flee-bag 14 so well. The hippies are disgracing themselves and Americans with a triple-digit IQ are disgusted with the stupidity in the face of a fiscal collapse --- both in Wisconsin and in DC.

Took the test summer '76. Lordstown, OH near an auto plant, GM I think which is probably no longer there. Remember it was a very hot, humid day and there was no air conditioning!

It wasn't a very difficult test. The (2) areas I had trouble were mechanical/electrical. My EI was 55.

Didn't know at the time they had ASVAB practice tests for dummies lol.

1984 had home town recruiting duty in Ravenna, OH ~ basically it was (2) weeks free vacation :) and one of my jobs was driving recruits to the testing center in Akron 'cause the navy found out some recruits were having their buddies take the test for them to attain a higher score.

How is it that people can act like these workers are somehow not the people?

Does working for the government suddenly revoke your US Citizenship? Does it mean that you are incapable of ever "producing" just because you work for government? There's a lot of sentiment here that really seems to imply a lot of people here would like to just take all government workers out back behind the woodshed and put a bullet between their eyes. That strikes me as strikingly ignorant if you can't ever believe in Government doing anything good, you might as well move to Somalia at that rate. Now Somalia, there's a conservative paradise! :p

What defines a person, what defines a producer. Where is the substance to any of this? It seems like a lot of people upset for the same things their own party was doing much more rampantly over the last two years in the U.S. Senate.