It amuses me actually, because I'd just been posting in my own space how refreshed I felt taking a break! I suppose I am just glad to see that my and the others' words here have been useful to someone.

That said, I'm a little... concerned... about the post, even when I find myself and my compatriots lauded there. Here's why.

The post is called Crap that irritates me about kinky bloggers. Reading it, it seems to be about rather clueless kinky people who blog, all of whom are apparently heterosexual, white, M/f-dynamic-oriented, and bad writers. Problem being, it just says "kinky bloggers," as if those are the kinky people who blog:

I guess it’s a lot easier to be mad at the cuddly feminists asking you to think about consent and heteronormativity than to critique a legal and social system that mandates relationships all follow a particular pattern with a particular life cycle. That makes LOADS of sense. Here’s a secret: most feminists are too busy thinking about attacking patriarchy, questioning their own privilege, and advocating for women’s reproductive rights to worry about how much you love it when your partner flogs you.

It's made clear later that this person is kinky herself (and may or may not be heterosexual), but it sure reads in the beginning like the sort of flaky "feminism" that assumes kink just is heterosexual, M/f D/s. That assumption is, as you all know by now, the big thing that makes it so "easy" for me personally "to be mad" at the "cuddly" (lovely substitute for a swear, I'll have to use that) "feminists" who never stop prattling about nonsense that has nothing to do with me.

I've said many, many times that I find it disturbingly odd that self-styled feminists find the concept of a female top foreign, strange, or derailing. It's bizarre beyond bizarrity to me that anyone, lunatic fringe or not, in a movement that is fundamentally about shining a big flashlight on the way women have traditionally been denied power be so invested in not talking about the women who claim to have it. Even saying we don't, however much it angers or even just bores me, is a step up from total erasure.

I don't like the "cuddly" (love it!) feminists, because they erase me.

And as someone who is bisexual and currently not dating a dude and smitten with someone who's not a dude, I feel the same way about the absolutely endless, endless, endless grating focus not only on heterosexuality but on a particular kind of heterosexuality I'm not going anywhere near when I'm sticking things up submissive men.

Frankly, right now I just don't care if the straight people are linking hands and merrily skipping off cliffs together. They own the damn world; they can figure out their own damn messes.

Critiquing heteronormativity? How about the way that, yet again, gay and lesbian BDSM is handwaved away because it's absolutely imperative that we talk about straight people.

Forgive me if I suspect that's because bitching about straight people's blogs is easier than researching and honoring leather history, which is inherently. And. Unavoidably. Queer.

Then there's, uh, some stuff about badly written erotica that I don't even get because I don't know the context. And some stuff about how people stop writing dark-themed stories once they're out of their teens.

While I realize this is probably about crappy writing and being sick about it, and there's nothing worse than a crappy dark story that has to remind you how seriously it takes itself... my first reaction remains something to the extent of:

Yawn. There are plenty of people who don't read the erotica I write. Add yourself to that number, and be glad you're not hangin' around an (apparently) overgrown teen who's having fun.

Then there's uh, something about "mansplaining," which again is probably about the blog(s?) of some whiny hetero Domly Dom of Doom:

I… don’t care about you quoting your female partner’s experience in a gangbang. I ALSO don’t care about how you understand the female orgasm (like there’s only one kind!) and want to explain to me that clitoral masturbation is immature, achieving vaginal orgasm’s a sign of emotional success, and lube is for sissies. I PARTICULARLY don’t care that you fuck a lot of strippers, and because you’re a paying customer you don’t want to see those dirty skanks eat and beeee teeeee dubbss your stripper BFF agrees with you because eating in front of clients is un-fucking-professional. I mean, how NOT feminist is it to name someone else’s experience using particular politicized adjectives when you’re trying to make a point that one of the major political, philosophical movements acknowledging her citizenship rights and existence as a person is like totally wrong in thinking about her sexuality and her political ideologies?

But again, it's presented totally without context, as though "kinky blogs" were all by "mansplainers." Once again, here's the assumption that everyone talking is male, heterosexual, and dominant. Somehow, again, I sniff patriarchy. Perhaps I wouldn't if it were made clear that the lion's share of the blogs she knows of are written by people who are male, heterosexual. and dominant. But she doesn't say that, nor does she explain why she isn't self-selecting.

And I'm kind of put off by the idea that a dude can't quote his woman partner's experience in a gangbang and not be skeevy, anyway. (And considering the very specific mention of "strippers eating," this is probably a response to one gross post on one obnoxious blog, again presented as if it were an example of a common problem.)

Trust me, I understand that many dudes who waltz in to do battle with "the radfems" complete with TMI about their intense kink and off-point explanations of what makes it all okay are creepy as hell. I've seen it myself. More times than I've ever wanted to.

But I've also seen this odd thing whereby some dominant man who doesn't know the ins and outs of gender theory comments on an angry "radical feminist"'s post, and it's assumed that the mere fact that he says "But Rosie talks about how it felt this way to her, and why she wanted it, and I don't see why listening to her is wrong" is proof that he and Rosie were totally unenlightened, skipping-off-together-to-hell heteros in the first place. Ah-wha?

And then there's a "stop fetishizing pale-skinned women." Which is probably again about the crappy erotica. And yeah, if the writer has no clue why the endless focus on how sexy white femininity is is sketchy, then I agree. But you know? I don't think it's going to make pale skin any less sexy to anybody who thinks it's hot, even if their reasons are soul-rendingly disgusting.

Any sentence that starts with "stop fetishizing..." is pretty much one I'd vote off the planet.

"Be aware that this is complicated," we can keep. And should use more often. "Don't buy into racist bullshit about what beauty is?" Doubly so. "Write about more, and more varied, kinds of beauty?" Sure, though some people's erotica is just about what they find hot, however problematic. I'm not sure it betters the world to enlist people who are just having fun in some crusade to be didactic. Not everyone's a role model.

And it's said in a way that implies it also means "Don't permit yourself to think of associations that are in tons of literature and media you like when you're staring at a sexy femme who happens to be white and pale and submissive."

257 comments:

I've been seeing a pattern here for a while. It's much, much easier to have a blazing row with that part of your community that's 99% in agreement with you, over the 1% that you're not in agreement about, than it is to form a constructive argument about the real enemy. I've seen this in every activist group I've ever been involved in, seems to me like it's just laziness really.

People would rather pick fault with people slightly different from them (eg, LGBT industry, LGBT charities, X queer group rather than Y queer group etc. or even debates over sex work, trans people etc) rather than the real enemy (multinationals, the right, building planning that favours straight monos)

It just makes me sad that people can't say, you know what? We may disagree on this but lets agree to disagreee, I repsect your perspective but there's so much we do agree on we can work with.

And in my opinion this is why the left/LGBT/queer/etc groups will never get anywhere. When the personal is *so* political rows break out over identity. Frustrating, but I have to say I'm complicit in it myself although trying hard!

FWIW, "mansplaining" is that "I, a guy, am totally going to tell you all about how women are, and you will listen to me! because I am a guy!" thing, especially when the guy in question is contradicting actual women.

Trinity, I checked my spam and "trash" folders for your deleted comment and didn't see one. You did have a comment awaiting approval, and I approved it. Hope that was the one you thought was deleted - otherwise, it disappeared into the ether.

I think maybe because I wasn't signed into Google I wasn't seeing the Post Comment link? That happened last week at another Blogger blog.

Anyway, all I had wanted to say was that we discussed linking to examples of the blogs Maria was talking about, and decided it would probably cause unnecessary hurt/anger and not really help. While I totally get your point about distinguishing "kinky bloggers" from "clueless kinky people who blog", I thought the fact that she linked to some people she felt were getting it right made it clear that she wasn't talking about everybody.

I actually like and agree with most of your article here. Feminism is indeed guilty of looking through a white hetero middle class lens, and I have parted ways with more than a few feminists over the years because they wanted to pity me for growing up relatively "poor", but treat my different perspective on the world as inherently wrong for not coming from the educated middle class.

There were actually a couple of reasons I didn't want to refer to specific blogs.

1. I've been working on this post for a suuuuper long time -- basically, this is a compilation of a series of WTF-ery moments I've been having for the last, like, year over some of the trends I've been seeing in kinkdom, particularly in the water I dwell in. In some ways, I've been mentally working on this list since college, when I started noticing all these really weird dynamics and fetishizations of youth, whiteness, vulnerability etc that you get in a faux liberal kink community drawing on several local colleges for its fresh blood. So, these are things I've been thinking about for a while, but have been really careful about being specific about since I want to stay friends (maybe foolishly!) with some of the people I'm referring.

2. I've also been working on this post in conversation with some blogposts I've been reading -- if you look back over the LoGI posts for the last few months, you'll see the occasional mention of them (like this one: http://thehathorlegacy.com/links-of-great-interest-1110/) refers to the gangbang issue specifically), but IMO those SPECIFIC posts highlight some general issues I've seen in comms like the LJ BDSM or the poly comms or whatever, where there's a particular kind of pissant who rolls in and is like MY BIG DICK MEANS I'M THE BOSS OF EVERYTHING.

3. I wouldn't say that all of kinkdom is responsible for shutting down jerks. But I will say that when you look at anti-trigger warning stuff (the most recent one was what Susanah Breslin wrote) and you're like, wow. I've seen this conversation once a year every year since I started getting into playtime, and each time? People are like OMG you're a jerk, but then keep supporting those writers are whatever in terms of consuming the shit they write, and making them still be popular? I start to think, okay, you aren't accountable for what the losers say -- but you are accountable if you keep consuming, listening, and validating what they're doing and saying re: creating an unsafe space and you actively not disrupting that.

Finally, TBH I didn't really refer to femdoms in the same way because I haven't really seen those same problems with femdom blogs. My main positive experiences with queer BDSM stuff is actually through DC Eagle Dyke Night's listserv, and AFAIK if you look at their website it shows up as closed even tho it's not, so I didn't want to link to it. Anyways, I didn't want to be like, THESE SPECIFIC BLOGGERS SUCK, and wasn't trying to be like ALL KINKY BLOGGERS SUCK (hence the linking at the end).

My gut response here is that Maria(?) is looking at poorly written blogs, and that--I mean this with the least possible intended offense--her response itself is poorly written, and you, Trin, are responding to her response.

There is some ancient quote whose author Google won't tell me, along the lines of "editing bad prose is bad for your soul."

And I do wonder if this doesn't fall into that category. We bloggers are in the important process of re-defining what is a noteworthy or irrelevant source. But surely, at some point, we have to be able to look at sources (be they M/f kink bloggers focused on hating the feminists and loving the pale-skinned women, or eFeminists complaining about same) and say: this is beneath the threshold of response.

Because if we don't do that, if we gravitate towards always rebutting the most outrageous bullshit, we are cheating everyone out of the virtue of a conversation between sane people who disagree.

I'm actually having a conversation over there that's much more productive, Orlando.

But yeah, point taken.

I'm kinda considering making a post asking what duty we actually do have to confront abuse in the BDSM community. Because although I agree that any community should do its best to cast out predators, I was thinking about that "I'm worried about abuse" bit and I just kept thinking about how DV happens everywhere, and people don't really go around saying "We've got to get these people out of fandom!" or "Philosophy conventions are no place for violent creeps!" or "There is no room for domestic violence among fishermen."

But yet it's something that's frequently leveled at the kink community: get your bad doms out. And a charge that we frequently take up, or at least feel like we should: Yeah, here's what we do to get them out.

And I'm kind of wondering whether that's a weird premise, or whether I really buy that we need especially heightened scrutiny. I mean it may just be that I see it less because I'm not a het male dom or het female sub, but something kind of feels to me like I'm acknowledging something I'm not sure is really actually about us.

I'm kinda considering making a post asking what duty we actually do have to confront abuse in the BDSM community.

I would say: exactly the same duty Christians have. Or doctors. Or, as you mentioned, fishermen.

Is there a heightened chance of abuse in your community? It would seem so, at first glance, but:

Occupations that call for much personal sacrifice - clergy, medicine, military, police, etc. - attract two (broadly speaking) personalities. (1) People who sincerely want to make the world a little better and (2) thugs, sadists and narcissists looking for a good cover and/or access to a steady stream of concealable victims. These communities, in my estimation, are at least as likely to attract predators as yours. Does BDSM provide a better cover for predators? Again, "It's okay, I'm a priest" seems to work as well as any variation of that assurance likely to be made in BDSM.

While I totally get your point about distinguishing "kinky bloggers" from "clueless kinky people who blog", I thought the fact that she linked to some people she felt were getting it right made it clear that she wasn't talking about everybody.

As a side note from an editorial and rhetorical perspective, "things that annoy me about X" will pretty much always sound like "X does these annoying things" rather than "some X do this annoying stuff".

In the years I've been on the internet, this is probably the single most common cause of flamewar among people of goodwill I have seen: people saying "X" and meaning "some X" vs. people seeing "X" and reading "X, which includes you because you are an X".

I think after the whole OSBP and some issues with assault at a convention a few months ago, fandom (at least in terms of con organizers) is taking abuse, assault, and male privilege a bit more seriously, because a lot of female fans and their allies were like NO GET RID OF THE CREEPSTERS. Plus, I think Wiscon spec. tries to be what a lot of other cons aren't: a queer-friendly, anti-sexist, anti-ablist, anti-racist space.

In terms of what's produced in fandom, and issues of abuse/assault... that's, like, the point of our website. Our tag is that we're searching for good female characters, but along the way, we look at the mobilization of tropes about DV, rape, survivors, and queer characters. I think there IS a movement in fandom to get over shitty paranormal romance crap, and to critique the whole alien babes in bikinis legacy from the Golden Age of SF.

Heh. Basically, what I'm saying is that we call out fandom for its fail pretty often.

Re: kink/DVHonestly... do you think the fishermen advertising campaign would work? Because if so, I think that'd be a great campaign.I know you were being facetious... but seriously, yo, some groups don't know to listen unless they're being spec. hailed because of issues associated with class, how the issue's being defined, etc.

Okay, yeah, I very much sit corrected there. I don't go to cons, so pretty much the height of my exposure to fandom fuckuppery has been people writing creepy stuff, whether in canon or fanon.

Re the OSBP though, I was pretty much the only person who read that original post and was like "oh, *kickass* -- maybe cons are worth going to! XDXDXD" Then everyone else was like "this is self evidently horrible" and I was just left WTFing.

I since came to change my mind to some degree; obviously either I'd misread it as very respectful or other people have wildly different tolerances for mild semi-public play (which is really what that was) than I did, and me being an outlier is relevant. But I still tend to blink a bit at the idea that I should have seen "creeper" where I saw "Ooh, so this little subenvironment is like the play parties at which I enjoy myself a lot, in part through exhibitionism. Cool -- it's nice to discover that somewhere outside of this particular niche."

Haha actually a bunch of people came out in support of the ferret, but they locked their shit down when everyone else was like WTFBBQ. I wouldn't say it was self evidently horrible -- just that a lot of people were like, dude, don't pretend your shit was transgressive when it's, uh, all up in the heteronormative male gaze and dependent on at times non-consensual access to women's bodies and on fronting like the world (and the space at the con) is a much safer place than it is. I know Wiscon has a couple kink friendly panels, but that's really the only con I've been to in person. I think Arisia does, too, but am not sure.

The problem with cons and doing stuff like public play is that ppl do bring their kids, and you don't always know what others' comfort level is. ;) Just because we like some of the same books doesn't mean we all like the same things, you know? I think that was an issue as well.

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