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It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

I'm an adult beginner and I have been taking lessons from the same teacher for abut 3 years. She is the only teacher I've ever had so I have no one to compare her with. I need some advice.

After 3 years I have only been given 6 scales to learn. I've been practicing the others myself on my own time. When I ask about this she thinks I'm trying to move too quickly. The pieces I have been given to learn are OK. Some are too easy in my opinion but she is not adverse to giving me hard ones as well. One of the books we use is Alfred Level 2.

She has never given me any instruction on posture or technique or hand position. Most of what I've learned about this is from this sight. I think this is because I'm an adult and it maybe less comfortable to tell an adult to sit up straight.

Also, I have achieved a level where I know more theory than she does. If I have a question she can't give me an answer.

I really like her as a person. She is very sweet and positive, but is it time to move on? Should I be further along in my studies than I am? I have plenty of time to practice and I am not lazy. I am excited about learning the piano and want to succeed. I feel like I'm plodding along slowly.

She has never given me any instruction on posture or technique or hand position. Most of what I've learned about this is from this sight. I think this is because I'm an adult and it maybe less comfortable to tell an adult to sit up straight.

This is bad. I'm a bit extreme - I firstly teach students how to stand and then sit (in fact, a mature student was grateful when she had to give a presentation to her bosses). Learning piano is 95% how, 5% what.

Sounds like your gut feeling is to find your next teacher. Go ahead and do it, in my opinion. Tell your current teacher she has given you a good start, thank her for her service to you, and move on. Contact your local music teachers' assoc. for a recommendation.

Based on what you've said, I wouldstay with this teacher. She soundsokay to me. You'd rather have a grim martinet who simply piles on the work so that you burn out and quit? This iswhat a lot of high-priced teachers do: pile on a lot of work to justify the lot of money you're paying.

As for scales, I personally don'tsee the need for extensive practiceof them. Scales in my view areprimarily a physical drill in finger-crossing, which is a general skill neededin playing. But since the finger-crossing motion is similar in all scales,one could argue that you could getby with playing just one. Andsince C maj. is the most difficult scale,the argument can be made that you couldplay just it.

As for posture, technique, and handposition, my view is that no teachercan really tell you anything aboutthese, because these will varydepending on the individual's own physiology and psychology. You'vegot to work these out on your own, which is just what you've done, which is just fine in my view.

You've already taught yourself moretheory than your teacher knows.That's good, not bad, in my view.You've got to learn to do things onyour own if you want to progress inpiano. Your teacher's "hands-off"approach has apparently encouragedyou to do this, which is just finein my opinion. So what's to stopyou from teaching yourself a movement of a Rachmaninoff concerto,while still taking lessons from thisteacher?

I would agree that you are "plodding along slowly" as you say. I would think you be a lot farther along after 3 years. Especially since you say that you "have plenty of time to practice (I assume that means you are, lol) and that you say you "are not lazy".

Originally Posted By: HeirborneGroupie

Also, I have achieved a level where I know more theory than she does. If I have a question she can't give me an answer.

Is this happening frequently? I have students ask questions occasionally that I can't answer on the spot, but then I research it and have an answer for them by the next lesson, or I email them the information. No one can know everything, but if you are constantly getting no answers, then most definitely it is time to move on.

I wouldn't switch teachers based on the lack of scales alone, some teachers don't plce a lot of importance on them. Is it possible that she feels you're all set since you know those 6? Maybe those are the only ones she herself knows? Have you requested more scales? I know you said you have asked her about it but I don't know what you asked her.

You haven't shared much about the teacher, ie: how long has she been teaching, what are her qualifications...? etc...Is she a neighborhood lady just trying to help out? If she is, then maybe you have just out grown her capabilities and you need to find one with more experience.

Wondering if your teacher plays more advance pieces for you as inspiration? I think listening and watching your teacher perform is also important.

I still remember my first piano lesson. Though I was already a pianist (self-taught conversion from the accordion), it was a most inspiring moment for me.

My teacher played the Rachmaninoff "Bells of Moscow". I never heard anything like it previously. At that moment I was ready to do whatever it took to learn that piece (and to become the best pianist possible).

There was fire in my soul after this lesson. Three weeks later I had the Rachmaninoff Prelude in C# Minor under my fingers from memory. Though my reading level wasn't up to the Prelude, my determination was, so I learned it through this teacher using only letters written out (on different levels depicting higher or lower notes from the previous one).

Anyway, if your teacher plays for you, you'll also know the stage of development the teacher is at. Some teachers aren't ready for anything other than beginners.

As for scales, I personally don'tsee the need for extensive practiceof them. Scales in my view areprimarily a physical drill in finger-crossing, which is a general skill neededin playing. But since the finger-crossing motion is similar in all scales,one could argue that you could getby with playing just one. Andsince C maj. is the most difficult scale,the argument can be made that you couldplay just it.

As for posture, technique, and handposition, my view is that no teachercan really tell you anything aboutthese, because these will varydepending on the individual's own physiology and psychology. You'vegot to work these out on your own, which is just what you've done, which is just fine in my view.

You've already taught yourself moretheory than your teacher knows.That's good, not bad, in my view.You've got to learn to do things onyour own if you want to progress inpiano. Your teacher's "hands-off"approach has apparently encouragedyou to do this, which is just finein my opinion. So what's to stopyou from teaching yourself a movement of a Rachmaninoff concerto,while still taking lessons from thisteacher?

What a load of utter tosh! What's the point paying a teacher to learn nothing, while you have to set about doing the work yourself? Any good teacher will be able to show you how to find your own most comfortable technique. If they don't teach you anything, why bother to take lessons?

As for the idea that all scales are the same- well the thumb movements are primarily pretty similar. But why do you suppose that B flat minor is harder than D flat major- when those transitory movements to and from the thumbs are quite literally identical? You need to learn the hand positions every bit as much. It's finding two simple hand positions, where you can address every note of the scale (with comfort and without additional emergency adjustments) that is vital to mastering such difficulties. And you need to learn the actual scales, so you can use them whenever they arrive in pieces- rather than be unable to progress until you've learned what could have been done more easily in isolation.

You could probably argue that it depends on what standard of music you're working at, whether learning extra scales would currently be top priority. However, if your teacher has never even been through any of the fundamentals of how to approach the keyboard, I'd certainly wonder whether they are actually teaching you anything. Very few people fall in these things by chance. If you started from scratch, any teacher ought to have approached a number of issues about addressing the piano- in at least some fashion.

Based on what you've said, I wouldstay with this teacher. She soundsokay to me. You'd rather have a grim martinet who simply piles on the work so that you burn out and quit? This iswhat a lot of high-priced teachers do: pile on a lot of work to justify the lot of money you're paying.

As for scales, I personally don'tsee the need for extensive practiceof them. Scales in my view areprimarily a physical drill in finger-crossing, which is a general skill neededin playing. But since the finger-crossing motion is similar in all scales,one could argue that you could getby with playing just one. Andsince C maj. is the most difficult scale,the argument can be made that you couldplay just it.

As for posture, technique, and handposition, my view is that no teachercan really tell you anything aboutthese, because these will varydepending on the individual's own physiology and psychology. You'vegot to work these out on your own, which is just what you've done, which is just fine in my view.

You've already taught yourself moretheory than your teacher knows.That's good, not bad, in my view.You've got to learn to do things onyour own if you want to progress inpiano. Your teacher's "hands-off"approach has apparently encouragedyou to do this, which is just finein my opinion. So what's to stopyou from teaching yourself a movement of a Rachmaninoff concerto,while still taking lessons from thisteacher?

???????

First, how can Cmajor possibly be the most difficult scale? There are no flats or sharps to remember or trip your fingers up with, just eight white keys all in a row.

Second, teaching yourself is a wonderful thing to do. That's how I'm learning right now, but if I were paying someone to teach me I would want to feel they were actually helping me add to my knowledge, not just "holding my hand" so to speak and making pleasant conversation while they suggest music to be learned. I can get my friends to do that for free. The OP is right to at least consider whether or not their teacher is really not so great or if they have simply outgrown their teacher and are ready to move on with someone else.

_________________________
I'll figure it out eventually.Until then you may want to keep a safe distance.

Based on what you've said, I wouldstay with this teacher. She soundsokay to me. You'd rather have a grim martinet who simply piles on the work so that you burn out and quit? This iswhat a lot of high-priced teachers do: pile on a lot of work to justify the lot of money you're paying.

As for scales, I personally don'tsee the need for extensive practiceof them. Scales in my view areprimarily a physical drill in finger-crossing, which is a general skill neededin playing. But since the finger-crossing motion is similar in all scales,one could argue that you could getby with playing just one. Andsince C maj. is the most difficult scale,the argument can be made that you couldplay just it.

As for posture, technique, and handposition, my view is that no teachercan really tell you anything aboutthese, because these will varydepending on the individual's own physiology and psychology. You'vegot to work these out on your own, which is just what you've done, which is just fine in my view.

You've already taught yourself moretheory than your teacher knows.That's good, not bad, in my view.You've got to learn to do things onyour own if you want to progress inpiano. Your teacher's "hands-off"approach has apparently encouragedyou to do this, which is just finein my opinion. So what's to stopyou from teaching yourself a movement of a Rachmaninoff concerto,while still taking lessons from thisteacher?

???????

First, how can Cmajor possibly be the most difficult scale? There are no flats or sharps to remember or trip your fingers up with, just eight white keys all in a row.

A lot of people find C major to be the most difficult scale. You don't have any black keys to use as a "road map," you're always crossing white key to white key - even with the minor seconds - and your long fingers are further out, which makes it more difficult to play evenly. It's quite common for people to remark on this. Chopin, supposedly, did not teach C major as the first scale because of this.

In a sense you have answered your question yourself. You feel there are some things you know more than your teacher as you are not being challenged and so you stated you have no one to compare her with. So compare. Set up some interview lessons with other teachers to be able to determine how much more you want to learn or if you are learning what you want and at the pace you want. And never, I repeat, never feel guilty no matter how nice your teacher is if you want to expand or advance. You can leave on good terms or should be able to. Good luck.

If you know one scale you know them all is an entertaining concept. That may be a new one. I think he just saved me a thousand hours! Every forum has people like this - best thing to do is to allow them their opinion or otherwise known as DNFTT. (Google DNFTT if you are familiar what it stands for).

I like the idea of auditioning other teachers. At least then I would have a basis for comparison.

As for her qualifications..... I know she's been teaching for ten years. She plays very well. Sometimes she plays for me and I hope I can play like that one day. Her students are mostly small children though. She has told me that she rarely has a student as advanced as I am.

I think I will try to audition other teachers and also have a frank conversation with her about my progress.

I'm curious as to which scales you were taught. My guess is all the white key scales except F Major? Did you ever play a scale starting on a black key? How about a harmonic minor? Or a melodic minor? Or a blues scale? How many octaves?. . .

Sorry. I feel teaching scales is an integral part of teaching piano, and after three years you should at least know all the majors and at least some of the minors. They help with good fingering, musical theory, knowing your way around the keyboard, etc. And NO, you do not use the exact same fingering in all of them!!!

Perhaps bring this up with your present teacher, but if you aren't satisfied it may be time to move on.

Well, then you see there can be different fingerings - the C G D A, then different for the RH in F and totally different for Bb. That's good! If you do arpeggios in C and G, you can transpose them easily to D and A.

Try then to do a C minor scale. Use the same fingering as C Major, but make E and A flat. C D Eb F G Ab B C

Or A Minor - same fingering as A Major, but only G is sharp. A B C D E F G# A Again, simply stated, the 3rd and 6th tones are lowered a half step. D Minor is D E F G A Bb C# D.

Do you have Hanon The Complete Virtuoso? Besides the valuable exercises, at the back of the book all the major and melodic & harmonic minors are laid out. Plus arpeggios. A great reference book as well as exercise source.

See what your teacher thinks. Let her know you'd like to move ahead. She sounds like a nice person, maybe just being too hesitant to push you. But it's not pushing if the student is raring to go!

It's OK to feel this way. Every teacher had more than one teacher to give them what they needed at that time in their development. It sounds as though it is time for you to move on.

Have a face to face talk with your teacher. Let her know how much you appreciate what she's done with you, but you feel you're ready to move on to the "next step". Mention that you're interested in learning more complex theory and technique, and you feel it would be best to find another teacher to help you with that. Then after you allow for some discussion, ask her if there is anyone she can recommend you transfer to.

Believe me, this straight-forward approach is the best for you and for her. As a teacher who has received everything from students just not showing up anymore, emails suddenly appearing saying that they are discontinuing lessons, etc. If your teacher has a cancellation policy (mine is 30-days notice) then adhere to that. I would love if a student (or the parent) would just be honest with me in person if they decided to discontinue lessons with me. I don't argue with students or try to change their mind, because I know that someday every student will either move on or quit. The in-person discussion actually makes it easier for me as a teacher to take.

I had a student who had taken voice lessons with me last year, but had decided not to take summer lessons. I kind of got the feel from them that she was questioning whether or not she wanted to continue voice. Then when I sent out information for Fall semester enrollment, I received an email from the mother stating that "she woudl like to try working with a different voice teacher" and would not be returning. It was a polite email, and I wasn't terribly surprised, but still I was hurt not only by the method of delivery (even a phone call would have been better), but also it doens't allow me to have any closure. Why does she want to try another teacher? What specifically went wrong in our lessons to make her think to look elsewhere? As far as I know we got along very well and she made lots of improvement. So now I have that question lingering in my mind, and I doubt it will never be resolved.

I *do* think you should leave your teacher, but please show her the respect that you obviously have for her by ending it the right way.

Yes, I do have the Hanon book. I had never looked towards the back before. Thanks for pointing this out . It will be very helpful. I will try out some minor scales in my practice.

I think you are right about my teacher. I need to let her know that I want to move forward and learn more. I am very comfortable with her and the thought of getting used to someone new seems like it will set me back.

You are right. Too often people resort to email when they have something difficult to say. I would not do this to my teacher. I think I'm going to try to make it work with her. I will tell her that I am discouraged and that I would like to move to more challenging subject matter. If it doesn't work out, I will tell her in person. We have 3 years of lessons together. She deserves that.

As for the theory part, she has expressed an interest in taking a refresher course at the local community college. Maybe this is something we could do together. Just a thought.

It's really cowardly of students to quit via email. I'm sorry that teachers are treated this way.

Thanks to everyone who took the time to reply. I am encouraged that maybe if I take the reigns, and tell her my goals that things could work out. If they don't, then I will audition other teachers and find someone new.

Heirborne: Good for you. Giving a teacher time to make adjustments is really important. We can't always know what your secret goals are, and so with adults especially, we try not to push them too much unless they ask for it. Simply letting her know you want more is perfectly OK and I'm sure she will try to accommodate your interests. Let us know how it goes!

Slow and steady is great as long as there is sufficient forward momentum and the foundation for later skills is being carefully laid. From what you have said about your current teacher, this is not happening, or likely to happen.

Which teacher do you think will have students who progress more quickly and smoothly, with better skills and to higher levels:

A math teacher who only every got to 4th grade level and thinks 3rd grade is "advanced" or a math teacher who regularly teaches beginners up thru college level math?

Which teacher do you think will have students who progress more quickly and smoothly, with better skills and to higher levels:

A math teacher who only every got to 4th grade level and thinks 3rd grade is "advanced" or a math teacher who regularly teaches beginners up thru college level math?

The third one that you didn't mention. The math teacher who in teaching grade 1 lays the foundations for grade 12, and who, when seeing a problem in grade 12, looks as far back as he needs, even if it's grade 1. The one who sees the whole picture and prepares his/her student.

The third one that you didn't mention. The math teacher who in teaching grade 1 lays the foundations for grade 12, and who, when seeing a problem in grade 12, looks as far back as he needs, even if it's grade 1. The one who sees the whole picture and prepares his/her student.

That's the only kind of teacher I would want to work with.

Maybe I'm being too harsh, but I just don't see how any teacher can be effective without a solid knowledge of theory.

The third one that you didn't mention. The math teacher who in teaching grade 1 lays the foundations for grade 12, and who, when seeing a problem in grade 12, looks as far back as he needs, even if it's grade 1. The one who sees the whole picture and prepares his/her student.

That's the only kind of teacher I would want to work with.

Maybe I'm being too harsh, but I just don't see how any teacher can be effective without a solid knowledge of theory.

Agreed. The OP's teacher does not seem to fit the description KS gave above.

The problem is that any beginner, starting with no knowledge of piano at all, may be the rare future piano major, and then everything that was taught from day one becomes critical.

There is some kind of weird idea that the first few years don't matter that much. That if a well-intentioned teacher who has only very limited knowledge is kind and enthusiastic, *that* somehow is going to avoid major "fixing" some time down the road.