Specially that chances to get Reflex actually finished and released are kinda low imo. Unless ordinary Joes give some money on Kickstarter it might be hard to make FPS game for such a small team. And I'm not even starting whining about playerbase. Warsow/Xonotic and any other Quake clones have no playerbase in general.

Finishing a game is all relative. I have not much doubt they'll get it done, engine and gameplay wise. But finishing it to a level where you are able to maintain all the features you want to do is a different thing.

QL certainly will die eventually, because unlike other games this one is centralized and with associated running costs. The project can and will be shut down entirely.

When that happens it will be because of the lack of innovations. When you take a peek at other games what they did was re-making a franchise, with a new engine, new game design, new features, new assets and content. In QL what id software did was just copypasting Q3 100%, engine, design and assets included as they had many times in the past, which doesn't cut it anymore. QL killed itself.

Furthermore Q4 wasn't even made by id software and the chosen team just copypasted Q3's game design and its single player was very much based on Q2's, but without meaningful additions or remaking the design from scratch. It was yet another lazy ass effort. Id software killed quake by its own and CoDs, Halos, BFs and whatnot had absolutely nothing to do with it.

God I wish I get Alzheimer's when i'm 75. I'll write myself notes and shit like in the movie Memento. I'll wake up and be like WHO AM I!? Then I'll see a note saying to check my id and another note on a laptop with 'turn on' and signed by myself.

I'll put on the laptop and it will have the very best demos from quake 3 and quakelive. And i'll be like what the fuck is this shit? And then there will be a .txt saying 'Quake 3. The most skilled badass video game in history. Grab yourself a coke, some lube and tissues and watch this'

It's going to be so fucking hilarious when the nurses come to check me out during the day, they be like 'what the fuck? why is Mr Landers stroking his dick?' then they'll be like oh shit this nigga is huge, and try to mount me but i'll push them off and be like 'bitch, i'm watching cooller vs cypher quakecon 2010' my dick is busy right now.

It's a thought that I'm sure all of us have had at some point in the past month. It's not premature ejaculation - it's reasonable speculation, because it could be true. Even though it has a long way to go, Reflex looks promising so far. Even if it's not very popular, there's still a great number of QL players who may decide to take it up as a serious alternative.

but there is no better one in this genre, so yes we are stuck with 15 years old game which is still better than most of modern games in terms of core gameplay design/balance and individual skill cap as well as technically near perfect engine.
Maybe Reflex will be able to change this situation and we all will happily enjoy brand new modern responsive and accurate engine with some sort of mix inbetween PQL and VQL ruleset.

more players than quakelive will have after it gets shutdown in a year
hahahahhahahaha
hf watching people play a man's game next year, you scrub

edit: have you not been paying attention??????
maps are just place holders, it means nothing right now. improving the maps will be a big focus from the dev team.
weapons are going to be made to work better with cpm's movement
this is coming from newborn's mouth

<@sponge> people who play quake live now have been playing for 5+ years, or 10+ years since q3
<Fragmaster> but what will you do
<@sponge> i dont think we need to do things to keep them around
<@sponge> because they arent going anywhere

And you call me blind, sorry but the only reason I play cpm is QL all along, what a disgrace for the genre, while the rest of them are building esport scenes QL is just a dead living game where players have to ask for donations to compete. And don't get me wrong, the gameplay is ok but I stopped playing right away back in the beta stage because it wasn't innovative at all, it was exactly the same thing again, they didn't even change it visually to make it look like a different product because of what i quoted.

Perhaps reflex is not your thing but at least devs read all the shit you guys post in here and they have a better perspective of how you should create an arena shooter, not gameplay alone but also proper features. I think we just got lucky having this project alive and any kind of elitism has gotten irrelevant to this day inside the genre.

The image is not approved yet, but you know he is right, right? The reflex community on ESR is 5 users or less that are wanking over a game that they think it will be exactly like cpm We all know that one change from it will mean the 17 brave remaining cpm players will say reflex does not follow cpm's core.

Innovation is the opposite of VQ3 (a 15 year old game) and opposite of copying QW and Q2, which is what cpm's whole concept has always been about. Furthermore VQ3 did not work, so it shouldn't be the inspiration of anything.

Innovation is needed because of what memphis said when talking about QL: there's no point in playing the same thing again as for that there's Q3 and also the game wasn't actively played for a reason. Incidentally, Q3 is superior to QL in terms of everything that isn't the (shitty) interface and (shitty) centralized system.
There's no point in playing a cpm clone with better graphics if for that there's q3's cpm, the latter which didn't have a playerbase at all, so copying it will mean a dead new game immediately, and cpm will always have more maps, content and will have the exact same gameplay that you want in that game. Nothing can replace cpm, q3 or whatever, no matter if they try.

all the cpm maps are old garbage, everybody knows that
most of the weapons need to be improved( i bitched at arqon about that back in the day, but he left them alone cause he felt they were perfect :/)
there's no reason why reflex couldn't be at least as big as quakelive(20k playerbase?) if they put enough work into it and quakelive dies(you can disagree, but you have no proof. time will tell who is right).
i doubt anybody on the reflex team believes their game will ever become a true hit game because arena fps are so niche nowadays.

blah, blah, blah, this is a waste of time.
going to just email the reflexdev team my thoughts instead ;p
i've spent enough time talking to trolls

The reflex community on ESR is 5 users or less that are wanking over a game that they think it will be exactly like cpm We all know that one change from it will mean the 17 brave remaining cpm players will say reflex does not follow cpm's core

There is literally not a single thing about this that is true. I can not see how in the world you got any of this from anywhere. All of us want change or something unique, and none of us are having a cry over the things the dev team changed from cpm. It's almost as if you're talking shit purely because you hate cpm players or something, because I'm astounded as to how you think any of this. Please enlighten me, where did you get any of that from?

"It's almost as if you're talking shit purely because you hate cpm players or something, because I'm astounded as to how you think any of this. Please enlighten me, where did you get any of that from?"

he wants reflex to be more like quakelive/quake3 and he thinks scaring the devteam will influence them the best
go see his posts before he started talking smack on cpm

lol when did I say any of those things? I remember writing the exact opposite actually, in one of these reflex threads.

Reflex and the QL patch brought some good things, such as discussion of finally dropping Q3/QL as the main game of the community, but at the same time it meant lots of new users to the site that have no clue whatsoever lol.

<@sponge> people who play quake live now have been playing for 5+ years, or 10+ years since q3
<Fragmaster> but what will you do
<@sponge> i dont think we need to do things to keep them around
<@sponge> because they arent going anywhere

this is so sad. quake live developer does no care for their community. they think every ql players is addicted to the ql game like lemming.

i also like that newborn listen to people. i think this is very positive thing for this REFLEX.

I don't see how reflex could fail the way other games have when it offers an in game map maker that can be set up as a dedicated server for community made maps. That all by itself insures longevity and is the equivalent of a long awaited dump on id software's front porch.

Sorry hitsu, I guess you don't enjoy freedom and choice. Too bad cause you're distaste and curmudgeon attitude is going to keep you from the many joys that reflex has to offer.

Even if reflex was/is a cpma clone, it's still more versatile in every sense. Quicker, unlimited map creativity, a dev team that listens. It's a game that has the potential to open the doors back up to old followers when ql pushed them all away.

Oh. Personally I don't really feel that ql is anymore alive than all the games in the series. The numbers are gone and still dwindling. Reflex has been gaining steadily. In alpha state nonetheless. That says a lot about the quake community in general. It's release couldn't have come at a better time. Some will stick with ql as it was their first one they played in the series. Ql molded an entirely different community because It's features were entirely centralized. Most of us seem to be sick to death of it. Paying for shit that was already free is absurd and it isn't what kept quake alive in the first place.

Five reasons why ql doesn't matter anymore:
1. Cheaters can't hide when you own a dedicated server. Perm ban ip, done. Stop relying on a centralized system of "fairness".
2. devs don't have any power over expanding their product. It's all up to the big wigs who don't know dick about it. How dull is that when it's predecessors gave the community free reign over expansion.
3. Game was watered down so much that its almost like your playing with nerf weapons. The weapons don't even do the same dmg. Pussified the whole game so it feels more fair. Why? Leave it alone. People who are unskilled die, making it take longer serves for what purpose exactly?
4. Community is saturated in " my way or the highway" mentality. Duel and ca on the same maps til the end of time. Most don't even seem to know about the old days when there was hundreds of new maps mods and models released daily for free. A community that keeps itself dull and mediocre.
5. the game is dated. It's hardly a high point for me to have awesome graphics but how do they expect real revenue if they aren't appealing to newer generations. Ffs, get a worthy engine and put your heart into something people want.

Statistics don't dictate reality bud. I play by what I see right in front of me. I meant activity in the servers that I see daily. You can stare at statistics all you want like a dead drone, but in the end, ead.

You should feel worse for wasting your time. Pointing out a granular grey fact that is moot in its entirety. Be proud to be right good sir. Be proud to point out all that barely conscious blather, banal and empty, without any degree of substance in an utterly anal retentive fashion while vying to appear ''intelligent'' with your goobery ''actual'' sentiment.

Close? Perhaps if you compare it in absolute... ~800 players is indeed small a difference between two games, but only if those games are big. Both reflex and QL are small niche games. I think in this case calling a 800 players difference "close" is a stretch. It's 25-35 times more... and that doesn't count a single player from the standalone.

I can agree however that Reflex isn't doing bad for the state it is in currently. This is nice and I hope things will get even better.

reflex is not released yet in full working state. how you can compare? why you always put down other game. more than one game can exist in universe. quake is good game, but it is very old and people want new game now.

Newborn is smarter than your passive agressive responses. he know you are die hard ql fanboy troll who have no interest in playing reflex so why in this thread ? because someone say ql is death? no need defend ql all times, noone care yours opinion about reflex because you do not plan playing this game.

You truly are a fun case. Someone says a good thing about a game and you first say this person is dissing the game, then when you realize that he's not, you claim his opinion is unimportant anyway. Do you turn your brain off with everyone or is this a special treatment for me? Anyway, if you care about who says what, you should at least have the honesty to reveal who you are.

By the way, I'm not interested in Reflex at this stage of development but further down the line when it will be more stable and will have the inevitable VQ3 mod (or the ability to tone down the air control a lot), I might end up playing that if others do.

I was very skeptic about reflex, but it proved me wrong, even in it's alpha state. I actually like it, I like that there's no fast weapon switch, I like that the editor is idiot friendly and I like to be able to see constant progress made by the devs. Only thing that I don't like is that it performs shitty on my 2009 laptop, which I can't really blame the game for.

I don't expect it to have a big player base, or have an impact on esports. I just want a game where I'll be able to play some good ctf.

I was hyped for Reflex and expected to be disappointed in some way, but it's actually better than I expected so far. The netcode is awful atm and I have to turn off all the graphical effects and play at 720 to get a smooth 250 fps on an i5-4670k and r9 270x and it still manages to be fun.

IMO there are already maps that are more fun and interesting to play than anything in QL despite having no textures, no polish, no real playtesting. You've got bdm3, a small and fast-paced map with lots of teleporter action and rail angles; xfdm2, the standard FFA map right now with some nifty jumps and interesting rooms to fight in; dp1, a wild map with plenty of vertical action and traps; thcdm1-velocity, which feels straight out of the original Q3 map pool and shows that that style can be fun in Reflex too. I'm sure there are others that I haven't even seen yet because I've only had the game for a few days.

And that's in, what, like a month of Reflex being public? The game has a really bright future ahead of it. The best thing about Quake is the community, and QL shut them out. Reflex is bringing them back.

It's at that "nobody's playing so I'm not either" stage. Any time I hop on a server with someone, other people come. I don't think it's going to break out of that until the game modes most people want are implemented, namely CA. Most people I've played with in the 3 or 4 days I've had early access don't seem to have experience with Quake (item control).

btw that server browser gives me a boner, how much of that did you design and code yourself?

If it weren't for CA players ql would be a wasteland by now. Why are you so obsessed with a fucking game mode? Don't play it if you don't like it. You're just like an annoying vegetarian who goes around judging people who like other things. It's sad, grow the fuck up

It IS a wasteland, only CA being active is one of the things that made me stop playing. Youre reasoning is like, im poor, so its ok if i get payed for letting others fuck me, bc working is too much hassle.

Give me a break. You're making no sense. Offering people a gametype that is fun, engaging and easy to get will kill the game? Because it's not a "proper" gametype based on your elite standards? Guess what, newcomers don't want to deal with your elitism. Elitism WILL kill the game much, much faster than casual gametypes.

If you really think reflex or any arena shooter will thrive from hardcore gametypes you're are so very wrong.

People initially start playing games because they want to have fun, getting beaten senseless in what you call "proper" gametypes will leave the community stagnant.

Whatever, i prefer a complete gameplay where players are separated by matchmaking, not a dumb gameplay that blurs the skill level of players, making complete gameplay modes wastelands. Im making a fair point here, you can agree or disagree, but i stand for my right to push it as far as i can.

edit: also your supposed irony between those two statements isnt true, that line isnt proof of elitism.

Why are some of you so against air control? Gee it's just terrible I can move in mid flight. The agony! Bastards can't rail me as easily in mid air. The pain! The horrible pain! Gaining speed is too easy, which sucks!

lets say they get rid of gravity entirely and you sit there, arguing against the new kids who love it how it didnt add anything to the game, is just unneeded and the old one was mre punishing when doing the wrong calls because you couldnt just yolo switch direction whenever

some physics are just needed. and most people liked the vq3 amount more

lets say they get rid of movement entirely no air control, no ground accel, no moving forward, no crouch, nothing.. and you sit there, arguing against the new kids who love it how it removed movement altogether from the game, how it's just silly and how the old one was mre maneuverable when feeling the need to dodge a rocket you could just move to any direction or at the least crouch whenever

some movement is just needed. and most people liked the QW and CPM amount more