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But unfortunately, Swisher won't be back for a short term deal for less than 10M...

Seems you are in the "Keep Swisher" camp. What would you consider your max offer for Swisher?

Trying to figure it out myself, honestly I'd offer 4/48, somewhere in that neighborhood. I'm sure that wouldn't get it done, though, so I'd wish him luck. Sniff around the trade/FA market, and if nothing else made sense, maybe up that a few million. I'm sure he is looking at that 5/85M disaster Ethier got..

Again, how has his OBP ever actually helped us in the playoffs? Do people realize Swisher's higher OBP means he gets on base maybe 10-15 times more over the course of an entire season?

Not a huge difference.

And again, people, look at things in context, Swisher gets on base (during the regular season) and does nothing, he's a lumber on the bases.

Ichiro gets on base and forces a pitchers attention on him, steals bases, goes 1st to 3rd, scores from 1st on doubles.

Not all "OBP" is equal, sometimes people get so enamored with stats that they forget to really even think about what a stat means. I would much rather have Ichiro on base 34 times out of 100, then Swisher on base 37 times out of 100.

.297 not .300 but if .300 makes you feel better I will give it to you. For all the bashing you lay on Cashman I would think you would know how to evaluate a player beyond BA. Ichiro had a .319 OBP is August. If you knew what type of hitter he was you would know he does no draw walks and everything is dependent on his BA. For all his speed he stole 1 base and was caught twice.

Swisher stole as many bases as Ichiro in August and hit more doubles.

I said nearly .300. If .297 is not considered to be near .300 then I don't know what is. As for OBP, in his last productive season in 2010, he hit .315 and only drew 45 walks in 680 ABs, and still had an OBP of .359. I believe he's capable of similar numbers in 2013. If he can give me an OBP of .340 or better I'd be perfectly satisfied. We need clutch hitters, not choke artists, and Ichiro has always been a clutch hitter throughout his entire career. If we had simply traded Swisher and signed Beltran last offseason who knows where we'd be right now with both Beltran and Ichiro.

"I'm an administrator. I'm a good listener. I would not pass myself off as an evaluator of talent"

But unfortunately, Swisher won't be back for a short term deal for less than 10M...

Seems you are in the "Keep Swisher" camp. What would you consider your max offer for Swisher?

Trying to figure it out myself, honestly I'd offer 4/48, somewhere in that neighborhood. I'm sure that wouldn't get it done, though, so I'd wish him luck. Sniff around the trade/FA market, and if nothing else made sense, maybe up that a few million. I'm sure he is looking at that 5/85M disaster Ethier got..

I'm not in any camp. I wait and see what Swisher wants and go from there. If his demands are reasonable, I do think he's the better player. Then again, if they're not, we can look at other options.

My main point is that Ichiro is a downgrade. Now he's going to be cheaper and a short deal. So he does have that going for him. And he does bring a different set of tools to the table, which might help balance out our team. But we also got the best couple of months that Ichiro has had in the last 2 seasons. Maybe NY invigorated him and the lineup. Or maybe the lineup protected him. Or maybe it was simply he hit a hot spell. So if he even starts to revert back to the .270 hitter he has been for 80% of the last 2 seasons that's a pretty significant drop off.

As for Upton, I do not get the love. I do think he's better than Ichiro at this point. But he's a very similar player to Swisher, a power/OBP guy. I thought we don't like those? If that's the type of guy you want, keep Swisher. Upton will cost a bunch in prospects and is basically a more athletic, albeit, lower production version of Swisher.

Originally Posted by nycericanguy

Here we go again with Swishers "OBP".

Again, how has his OBP ever actually helped us in the playoffs? Do people realize Swisher's higher OBP means he gets on base maybe 10-15 times more over the course of an entire season?

Not a huge difference.

And again, people, look at things in context, Swisher gets on base (during the regular season) and does nothing, he's a lumber on the bases.

Ichiro gets on base and forces a pitchers attention on him, steals bases, goes 1st to 3rd, scores from 1st on doubles.

Not all "OBP" is equal, sometimes people get so enamored with stats that they forget to really even think about what a stat means. I would much rather have Ichiro on base 34 times out of 100, then Swisher on base 37 times out of 100.

It's not just OBP, it's also SLG. Like the concept that Swisher hitting more line drives tends to end up with more doubles than a guy like Ichiro, and that's not even talking about the HRs. So when we talk OBP, we really need to know what each "on base" event was. A Single + a steal? A Double? A HR? Honestly, it's why I like to go to stats more like wOBA, so we're not simply trying to do that math ourselves.

He did once he joined the Yankees, but for the past couple of seasons on Seattle he was not on the same level as Swisher. Changing from Safeco to Yankee Stadium and having elite hitters behind him may have helped though.

You can also argue the Yankee lineup helped Swisher. Do you think he would put up the same numbers in the Mets lineup, for example? I don't.

As for Upton, I do not get the love. I do think he's better than Ichiro at this point. But he's a very similar player to Swisher, a power/OBP guy. I thought we don't like those? If that's the type of guy you want, keep Swisher. Upton will cost a bunch in prospects and is basically a more athletic, albeit, lower production version of Swisher.

Thats also years from his prime and has potential through the roof. Swisher won't be getting any better, Upton has the chance to. I mean the guys only a couple years older than our big prospects.

Thats also years from his prime and has potential through the roof. Swisher won't be getting any better, Upton has the chance to. I mean the guys only a couple years older than our big prospects.

He is only 25, which is nice. But there is no guarantee he actually gets better. He's going to cost a bunch in contracts, and even if we got the guy, he's not a super cheap solution. He's on the books to make nearly 10 million next season and 14 the next 2 after that. I'm not sure I'm a huge fan of trading away a bunch of prospects and having to pay a pretty decent salary for Upton on the chance he gets better.

Ok get this through your itty bitty heads.... SWISHER SUCKS!!! plain and simple, he's terrible in the playoffs, have you not watched the last 3 years in the playoffs.. have you not watched his play in the outfield against Detroit.. get this mutt out of town, i take Ichiro all day long over this joke

Ok get this through your itty bitty heads.... SWISHER SUCKS!!! plain and simple, he's terrible in the playoffs, have you not watched the last 3 years in the playoffs.. have you not watched his play in the outfield against Detroit.. get this mutt out of town, i take Ichiro all day long over this joke

This.

Leo's Thought Of The Day

Statistics are used much like a drunk uses a lamppost: for support, not illumination.

Ok get this through your itty bitty heads.... SWISHER SUCKS!!! plain and simple, he's terrible in the playoffs, have you not watched the last 3 years in the playoffs.. have you not watched his play in the outfield against Detroit.. get this mutt out of town, i take Ichiro all day long over this joke

No you get it through YOUR head, he has a good OBP so nothing else matters!

lol...

but seriously, the guy is probably the worst PS hitter of all time, no way would I give him a big deal, I just don't think he can hit elite or even very good pitching.