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glorybee wrote:Steven, would you please teach this class? Seriously--I'm not being sarcastic or facetious here. You have so much more knowledge than I do. Write to me; maybe I can hand this one over to you and find another one more suited to my skills...think about it.

No, Jan, I think you should teach the class....you're good at bringing complicated ideas "down to earth". I had to read his points a couple times over before I understood....plus I'd be afraid of the homework Steve would assign! I think it's fine for you to explain the lesson, and have his input on topics. Makes for interesting discussion anyway.

More fun I came up with in the shower today....

Really bad haiku....
A warning for all who read:
Author lacks a point.

glorybee wrote: the way I understand it, "objective" deals with things that are actually observed (or perhaps heard, felt, etc.), but "subjective" deals more with feelings, emotions, etc.

Yes, that's it in a nut shell. "Objective" (in the haiku context) basically means related to the five senses. Some folks have said that the heart of haiku is showing, not telling. What good practice for writers! Also, avoiding subjective words will mean avoiding many types of adjectives and adverbs. More good practice for writers! The key is to use objective WORDS to create either an insight or a SUBJECTIVE RESPONSE. Beyond that it is hard to say much without going way deep. One website that provides some guidance on this and other haiku issues and that is pretty short is here.

However, if you read it, you will be introduced to the "haiku should not be limited 5-7-5" thing. Yes, yes, it's true, but I haven't wanted to let myself off that hook yet.

Unfortunately, I don't know of any websites that show draft haiku that use objective words, followed by re-writes using objective words. And it doesn’t help that when you read some of the really great haiku, the masters sometimes break this rule on purpose.

In addition to the example I gave in an earlier post (I changed "joy of mother's heart" to "a new mother's smile" and later "mother smiles"), maybe we can do a few with nature. One of the most famous haiku is :

Old pond...
frog jumps in
water's sound

Here are a few ruined versions EVEN THOUGH THEY MIGHT REPRESENT THE WRITER'S SUBJECTIVE RESPONSE:

Old pond...
a frog jumps in
delightful sound

OR

Old pond...
a frog jumps in
jarring sound

Or how about this one (a made up one of mine) about a deer emerging from the edge of the woods into a soybean field:

I think the subjective IMPACT is OK. Perhaps the reader gets an insight about temptation. Or perhaps a hunter has a subjective reaction. Or perhaps an animal lover or vegetarian has a reaction. BUT there is still a problem with subjective WORDS in the first two lines. How about:

How do you fix it? I don't know. Besides the emotion in the last line, there's also no juxtaposition or "ah-ha" and no season word. Ignoring the fact that I am making this up instead of observing it, maybe:

These examples are not great, but I hope you can see the difference between objective and subjective in a bit of context.

Steve
nlf.net
________
"When the Round Table is broken every man must follow Galahad or Mordred; middle
things are gone." C.S. Lewis
“The chief purpose of life … is to increase according to our capacity our knowledge of God by all the means we have, and to be moved by it to praise and thanks. To do as we say in the Gloria in Excelsis ... We praise you, we call you holy, we worship you, we proclaim your glory, we thank you for the greatness of your splendor.” J.R.R. Tolkien

violin4jesus wrote:No, Jan, I think you should teach the class....you're good at bringing complicated ideas "down to earth". I had to read his points a couple times over before I understood....plus I'd be afraid of the homework Steve would assign! I think it's fine for you to explain the lesson, and have his input on topics. Makes for interesting discussion anyway.

I agree Jan should keep teaching the class . . and I've already told her so. It's not just that I can't afford the time (which is certainly true), but it's also that as you say, Leah, she's so good at bringing things down to where it's understandable by everyone. And that's just one of the things that makes her such an incredible teacher!

Steve
nlf.net
________
"When the Round Table is broken every man must follow Galahad or Mordred; middle
things are gone." C.S. Lewis
“The chief purpose of life … is to increase according to our capacity our knowledge of God by all the means we have, and to be moved by it to praise and thanks. To do as we say in the Gloria in Excelsis ... We praise you, we call you holy, we worship you, we proclaim your glory, we thank you for the greatness of your splendor.” J.R.R. Tolkien