While I like your vigor, it's best to just object one time everytime CDR posts something that includes a speed in it. They're all either miracle tailwinds, or wheel sensors set to 29ers or something.

No one believes leadout laps at 35mph, barring some special circumstance or course. I've seeeeeen a guy sprint to 40mph, but it was around a van so really he went from about 39mph to 41mph for all of 10s. I know it's possible but exceedingly rare, even in a race.

And I know firsthand that if you can go out on a flat road/calm winds and sprint to 32-33mph, you have enough jump to contend in all the cat 3 races I've ever been a part of.

Anyway, you replied too many times and even though I agree with you, you start to look crazy!

Crap...this means I actually need to learn to race. Not just try to power through to good finishes

While I like your vigor, it's best to just object one time everytime CDR posts something that includes a speed in it. They're all either miracle tailwinds, or wheel sensors set to 29ers or something.

No one believes leadout laps at 35mph, barring some special circumstance or course. I've seeeeeen a guy sprint to 40mph, but it was around a van so really he went from about 39mph to 41mph for all of 10s. I know it's possible but exceedingly rare, even in a race.

And I know firsthand that if you can go out on a flat road/calm winds and sprint to 32-33mph, you have enough jump to contend in all the cat 3 races I've ever been a part of.

Anyway, you replied too many times and even though I agree with you, you start to look crazy!

It's winning on the internet, dude. Don't you know how important this is?

Just like a sprint (for those of us who can't jump to 40 mph), you gotta be a little crazy to go for it.

That is a tough ask in a cat 3 race, so like most have been saying it is not going to happen, therefor leadouts don't work at the cat 3 level and therefore it is going to be a free for all and that is why your sprinter didn't win even with the 4 guy leadout.

That said I have both given and received leadouts at the cat 4, 3, 2 and 1 levels on many occasions where the final speed hit 40, most were wins for my team. So it can be done and if it is not done right, then don't wonder why your team got passed.

You quoted me, but then started going on about my sprinter winning with a 4 guy leadout in a cat 3 race?

I don't know what you're talking about. I'm not a cat 3 and haven't said anything about leading out my sprinter or my team being passed...

What's spectacularly silly is quoting power numbers for Indurain that were estimates. It says right there: estimate. You wrote it, not me.

He didn't have a power meter on his bike.He didn't have a power meter on his bike.He didn't have a power meter on his bike.He didn't have a power meter on his bike.He didn't have a power meter on his bike.

Then having a discussion about what might account for the difference between my actual, real world numbers, and something that someone

pulled out of their ass. pulled out of their ass. pulled out of their ass. pulled out of their ass. pulled out of their ass.

Did I say spectacularly silly? let me get my thesaurus out and find a word that really covers this:

Bombastically?

Nope. I have it:

Magnificently silly.

What's frighteningly silly is comparing a 6'2" guy's 1994 drag numbers that are estimates, with a 5'9" guys

numbers from 2013 that are real. numbers from 2013 that are realnumbers from 2013 that are realnumbers from 2013 that are realnumbers from 2013 that are real

So please, bet me I can't produce 35 MHP on 444w.

Sincerely,

Rich Midget

PS: I know of a few other folks who have CdA's that are close to or even better than mine. Please bet them too.

Alrighty. Did a Pro/1/2 race today that had a 5 man Cat 1 team lead out over the last mile with a downhill (~-2-3% grade) and no turns coming into the finish... last .4 of a mile we averaged 36.4 and I topped out at just over 40 for a top ten.

Again, downhill with a Cat 1 team (prolifically winning cat 1 team) leadout. Only the last .4 of a mile was over 35 and top speed was just a nudge over 40. 1100+ watts. 120+ rpm.

Why don't you clear a whole lot up for everyone and post what race this was. Name & location.

This...
...might be related to this:
Applying power with the back that rounded out might be hell on the spine.

Far be it from me to argue with a guy who got his medical degree from the Grenadian Correspondence School of Medicine and Bar Tending, but two motorcycle racing accidents at over 100 MPH (including hitting a concrete wall) and 4 broken vertebrae from a crash at San Dimas in the rain two years ago might have contributed to this.

Here's what the CT guy said:

Findings: There is a mild compression fracture of L1. There is less than
25% height loss anteriorly. There is a compression fracture of the
superior end-plate of L4, demonstrating approximately 25-50% height loss.
There is mild anterior displacement of the fracture fragments. There is a
minimally displaced fracture of the right transverse process of L2 and L3.
There is a nondisplaced right transverse process fracture of L4.

There is normal alignment of the lumbar spine. There is mild disk space
narrowing at L4-5. Small anterior osteophytes are noted at all levels.

He should TT in a more upright position.

It's all gobbdely goop to me though. I'll run your findings by my neurologist next week. Get me your number so you guys can consult. I've got insurance.

You quoted me, but then started going on about my sprinter winning with a 4 guy leadout in a cat 3 race?
I don't know what you're talking about. I'm not a cat 3 and haven't said anything about leading out my sprinter or my team being passed...

That is the whole issue with this topic ... we are not talking about the same things. What brought out these all these speed comments and numbers, including Racer Ex and his outlier ability to generate speed that we can't match on a road bike with the same power, is how hard it is to do a proper leadout ... in particular the question was asked about cat 3/4 races. So myself and another racer mentioned some high speed races and what it took to do a proper leadout. You and some other guys took issues to the specific numbers, in particular 35 mph laps and 40 mph sprints. That is hard to do as a Cat 4 or Cat 3, those "outlier" sprint speeds of 40 mph are just like Racer Ex's "outlier" ability to generate speed without watts, which is why he brought it up, IMO - which derailed and already derailed thread. But outliers need to be dealt with in a race, and one way to do that is with a proper leadout, another is bring up the average speed or race courses which don't allow for fat strong sprinters.

I have been in proper leadouts in cat 4 races, cat 3 races and cat 1 and cat 2 races, so I have some experience with them, I was not referring to you specifically but trying to get us back on point in relation to why 40 mph speeds are needed. All races all end with different speeds and different outcomes, one way to ensure your guy wins to to go really fast, too fast for the other sprinters. That was my point of calling you out about your focus on one racers ability to cheat the wind and its relation as an outlier to my sprint speed of over 40mph, which appears to some of you to be an outlier as well. Maybe my speed is an outlier, good for me, just please keep the average race pace under 25mph so I can use it. There are many other area sprinters in my area that can beat me, so I am not worried.

And I would agree about your comment that winning on the internet is crazy. My hopes via these forums are to share what I have learned and learn about what others are sharing. Although I do enjoy a good debate when I have time, I just wish we were both talking about the same thing.

My hopes via these forums are to share what I have learned and learn about what others are sharing. Although I do enjoy a good debate when I have time, I just wish we were both talking about the same thing.

Me too. I've pretty much given up after this thread though.

Somewhere there's a video from last year's state crit championship where I was OTF for most of the race, then was pulling the field with 2 to go. I think we were going around 34 (WHICH ISN'T 35!!!!!!). I think I was sitting on around 360-400w at the time.

I have a feeling I just imagined it though. And tomorrow I'll wake up and this thread will be gone. With luck my back will be better, my cold will be gone, and I'll be at the bottom end of some age group and kicking ass again.

Far be it from me to argue with a guy who got his medical degree from the Grenadian Correspondence School of Medicine and Bar Tending, but two motorcycle racing accidents at over 100 MPH ...

Now now, none of that. Surely you can differentiate between primary causes and exacerbating circumstances. But, hey, if it's a comfortable position, then okay.

Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter

I can honestly say I once rode about three miles at 40+ mph and only putting out about 200w. And it was a largely flat three miles, with no elevation changes greater than 1 percent.

Of course, I was greatly aided by a massive tailwind brought on by an incoming haboob.

And I ended up calling my wife to come get me that day, as the wind was much too intense to get back home. When going into the wind, I was struggling to turn the 39/27. And with the wind at my side, I actually had to lean over to stay upright, which caused problems when there was a momentary lull in the wind, and I nearly fell over. Also, tumbleweed. I spent a lot of time trying to dodge them or stopping to pull them out of my rear wheel when they hit.

Chris hoy can hit about 48. I've read cavendish claim a comparable top end. I call bull**** on cav. Hoys comes fresh with a significant power advantage. One of the main differences between pro and amateur finishes isn't top end speed, but that it comes at the end of longer and harder races, and after significantly longer and harder lead outs.