A warlock's two instant GCDs was far easier to deliver than a mage's burst. Say what you will about the resulting damage, but it requires a cast and a shatter, and thus can be interrupted, dispelled, shapeshifted, and trinketed, not to mention the usual methods for mitigating and preventing burst. If mage damage is overpowered, it's not by much.

A warlock's two instant GCDs was far easier to deliver than a mage's burst. Say what you will about the resulting damage, but it requires a cast and a shatter, and thus can be interrupted, dispelled, shapeshifted, and trinketed, not to mention the usual methods for mitigating and preventing burst. If mage damage is overpowered, it's not by much.

Agree to that if it wasnt due to the fact that demos cd is on a 2min cd and the mage cd's are not.
It is far easier to avoid a 2min cd (anyone who played and remember ~wings would vouce for that) than short term cd's.

A warlock's two instant GCDs was far easier to deliver than a mage's burst. Say what you will about the resulting damage, but it requires a cast and a shatter, and thus can be interrupted, dispelled, shapeshifted, and trinketed, not to mention the usual methods for mitigating and preventing burst. If mage damage is overpowered, it's not by much.

And the chaoswaves required that stars align and using a gimmick build to make those crits possible after you spend 2 minutes building up for your little trick where you try to make healthbars disappear ( which has a 0.0001% chance of happening against someone with a brain)

OT: Mage burst is retarded, if they get to do a full burst, they burn 80% of your hp away without the need of popping every single cooldown.
The reason everyone at BWC played orc is because of that. To get out of the deep freeze before it could happen, yet, it still happened from time to time.

A warlock's two instant GCDs was far easier to deliver than a mage's burst. Say what you will about the resulting damage, but it requires a cast and a shatter, and thus can be interrupted, dispelled, shapeshifted, and trinketed, not to mention the usual methods for mitigating and preventing burst. If mage damage is overpowered, it's not by much.

Totally agree, 2x Chaos Waves every 2 mins is way more OP than a frost bomb every 10 secs wich does decent damage or a frost bomb every 30 secs wich does shitloads of damage. It is obvious that Warlocks are a few times more OP than frost mages, the arena class representation proves this, there is like 1 Warlock team every 2 teams, as for mages you barely see one every 15 teams. And oh, yes, it is true you can trinket mage damage every 30 secs, you can trinket a deep every 30 secs obviously.

I mean, his gear is total shit and my gear is decent,far from good but a frostbomb smack me for 200k in two ticks

What the fuck is a Frost Bomb tick?

Uses the same signature for over a year, just randomly gets infracted for it recently.
Placeholder signature is placeholder and will hopefully make me finish my shit.
Oh yeah, I'm a Druid and stuff.
I also made a spreadsheet for the Order Hall.

Just did a bg with my pally and got killed by a 122 k frost bomb crit. 61% resilience and divine protection was up (40% reduced magical damage). This would have been a 274k crit against 0 resilience. And it will get worse. Soon some people will have all pvp upgrades and start one shotting everyone.

At least in terms of PvE, I would agree that a frost bomb on a frozen target seems a bit outrageous. My mage has a 476 ilvl and will routinely frost bomb and then deep a mob only to watch them explode for 215k (sometimes as high as 315k and sometimes as low as 89k). I do this without popping cooldowns (trinkets and such) outside of Invocation and only being buffed with AI. (I don't use fire/inferno blast to insta-detonate it) To me, those numbers feel too big. I have watched mages (such as Cartoonz) use it in PvP and it has some big potential to hurt. I guess a drop in the overall detonation damage wouldn't be so bad.

And the chaoswaves required that stars align and using a gimmick build to make those crits possible after you spend 2 minutes building up for your little trick where you try to make healthbars disappear ( which has a 0.0001% chance of happening against someone with a brain)

OT: Mage burst is retarded, if they get to do a full burst, they burn 80% of your hp away without the need of popping every single cooldown.
The reason everyone at BWC played orc is because of that. To get out of the deep freeze before it could happen, yet, it still happened from time to time.

Ummm chaos wave destroys professional arena players that get sponsored to play at LAN tournies...so ur statement that "( which has a 0.0001% chance of happening against someone with a brain)" is complete bullshit. Chaos wave is completely OP and has 100% chance of doing insane dmg and almost 1shotting multiple people if done correctly. Dont make up bullsh*t to win an argument...

Ummm chaos wave destroys professional arena players that get sponsored to play at LAN tournies...so ur statement that "( which has a 0.0001% chance of happening against someone with a brain)" is complete bullshit. Chaos wave is completely OP and has 100% chance of doing insane dmg and almost 1shotting multiple people if done correctly. Dont make up bullsh*t to win an argument...

I lolled... No seriously, I lolled.

I don't even wanna bother going into this again, professional players can handle chaos wave very well, it doesn't have a 100% chance to do insane damage, it barely has a 1% chance of 2shotting an undergeared player sitting at 1k rating, a player at 2.5k+ however won't get hit by such damage unless they are seriously outplayed, which means they'll lose anyway. If chaos wave was that overpowered, then tell me, why didn't every team at BWC just use 3 demolocks, all using chaoswave at once to oneshot the whole other team? Let me tell you, because the ability wasn't overpowered, it are only 1k rated players, like you, that lack the skills to prevent such damage.

And the chaoswaves required that stars align and using a gimmick build to make those crits possible after you spend 2 minutes building up for your little trick where you try to make healthbars disappear ( which has a 0.0001% chance of happening against someone with a brain)

It doesn't matter if you think it was a gimmick; it was effective. I don't care if you think a ds meta phase never worked because you're wrong. It doesn't get any more simple than that. Also, it's really hard to sit on capped fury until you have cooldowns and can line up some semblance of delivery insurance with your skilled instant CCs.

Originally Posted by Bogdan

Totally agree, 2x Chaos Waves every 2 mins is way more OP than a frost bomb every 10 secs wich does decent damage or a frost bomb every 30 secs wich does shitloads of damage. It is obvious that Warlocks are a few times more OP than frost mages, the arena class representation proves this, there is like 1 Warlock team every 2 teams, as for mages you barely see one every 15 teams. And oh, yes, it is true you can trinket mage damage every 30 secs, you can trinket a deep every 30 secs obviously.

So you're going to twist my words to mock something I obviously never said? I don't know if you don't arena or what, but the ability to dispel a mage's burst is kind of a big deal. You only trinket when your healer can't dispel, you have no defensives, and your other teammate is in Africa instead of peeling/interrupting. I'm not denying that mages are strong, but it's not unrivaled damage that put them there. High availability on their burst combined with their control keeps them on the map. They require a more or less perfect setup to land a kill, but have the tools to set that up eventually. Warlocks aren't highly represented because the only strong warlock spec wasn't "discovered" until recently and subsequently received several adjustments. Demo was stronger than frost.

Also, just to be clear: Yes, a more guaranteed kill is more powerful than non-threatening damage that just builds up a tally on a scoreboard at the end of the game. Why am I even bothering with people like you?

Originally Posted by Niberion

I lolled... No seriously, I lolled.

I don't even wanna bother going into this again, professional players can handle chaos wave very well, it doesn't have a 100% chance to do insane damage, it barely has a 1% chance of 2shotting an undergeared player sitting at 1k rating, a player at 2.5k+ however won't get hit by such damage unless they are seriously outplayed, which means they'll lose anyway. If chaos wave was that overpowered, then tell me, why didn't every team at BWC just use 3 demolocks, all using chaoswave at once to oneshot the whole other team? Let me tell you, because the ability wasn't overpowered, it are only 1k rated players, like you, that lack the skills to prevent such damage.

There were no triple demo teams because they'd be picked apart before they built up the resources for their burst phase. Are you for real? You have no idea how the spec you're defending even works.

And where are you getting these numbers from? 1% chance to 2-shot an undergeared 1k mmr player? I'm guessing you're just making all this up to justify your (incorrect) position. A 1% chance (significantly up from your previous figure) would be the ballpark of double crits, which is not necessary to drop someone. That's what's necessary to solo someone fully geared through a low-tier defensive cooldown. One crit is enough to solo someone fully geared if you can lock them out of a defensive (really hard to do--try axetoss/bloodfear/mortal coil/etc.). Two non-crits is still enough pressure to land a kill if your teammates are doing anything other than picking their noses.

I somehow doubt you're the PvP god you're making yourself out to be, but keep up the charade if you really think it's working. (Hint: Nobody here plays at 1000mmr, not even you. I'm pretty sure that's like people with greens and tank specs but still determined to cap conquest.) Anyway, I'm done with this too. You don't know what you're talking about, and though I haven't played yet this week apparently demo might be a non-issue after the latest hotfix anyway.

So you're going to twist my words to mock something I obviously never said? I don't know if you don't arena or what, but the ability to dispel a mage's burst is kind of a big deal. You only trinket when your healer can't dispel, you have no defensives, and your other teammate is in Africa instead of peeling/interrupting. I'm not denying that mages are strong, but it's not unrivaled damage that put them there. High availability on their burst combined with their control keeps them on the map. They require a more or less perfect setup to land a kill, but have the tools to set that up eventually. Warlocks aren't highly represented because the only strong warlock spec wasn't "discovered" until recently and subsequently received several adjustments. Demo was stronger than frost.

Also, just to be clear: Yes, a more guaranteed kill is more powerful than non-threatening damage that just builds up a tally on a scoreboard at the end of the game. Why am I even bothering with people like you?

That is basically what you said, frost mage damage is fine, Demo Warlock damage was/is (you prolly think Demo is still OP, I guess), Warlocks are OP compared to mages, just because you haven't said it exactly with that words that doesn't mean that's not what you implied by defending frostbomb.

Like there is obvious Demo was really strong before 5.1 and it needed some tweaks, but defending frost mages in this manner is... beyond silly, you gave the word biased a new definition... No one in their right mind can actually think mages are OK in their current state....

And what do you mean by "Warlocks aren't highly represented because the only strong warlock spec wasn't "discovered" until recently"?? Except maybe 1st week of MoP when everyone was testing every spec in lvl 90 PvP gear, every Warlock played Demo, I say 2 months is more than "recent"... Warlocks aren't that highly represented in arena because there are like 5 other specs/classes wich are 10 times more powerful than them... How can argue with REAL proof wich is the arena representation?? It's like saying that Rogues or... idk, Rets, Ferals are OP just because they can global you in a BG or something, whereas in arenas, they're basically NON-EXISTENT...

Really now, Demo was over the top, it got obliterated, everyone saw this one coming sooner or later, Warlocks included, but debating that frost mages aren't GODLIKE atm is absurd...

Mages are in a silly state, taking in consideration all tools they have at disposal deleting class as a wholle from PvP setting will improve balance more then anything Blizz done in past few years. I've no clue how they allowed to accumulate so much survivability/control/mobility/burst dmg for one class over years and then throw into the wholle mix a single ability taking off more then 50% oponents hp on consistent basis.