impressive herding back ground from mill iron s ranch in idaho and lynn daniels in ok. championships both goats/sheep and cattle, foot or horse back

ABCA registered, shots, wormed, vet inspected,

they are social, being handled by myself, my wife, or grand kids almost daily , ready to go n about two weeks. brn/white,,, brown/white tris ,,, black and white... we have sold and shipped puppies from one coast to the other and have some repeat customers

Sounds like fun to me! But this ranch would have to send the whole crew for intensive training to learn to manage working dogs, and I suspect at least one 'senior member' would be far more difficult to train than any of the dogs. We do really well working cattle with horses nearly every time, tho 'moon sign' may have occasional negative influence, and we don't know enough about that situation, either. Any system, when it is working well, is such a pleasure to participate in, and can be a real wreck when is isn't working well.

So, any chance of you sharing some film on this forum, of working dogs, from pups learning the ropes, to championship working dogs showing us how it should be done?

We have only seen a very few contests at fairs, etc. A memorable one was near the civic center in Rapid City, along Rapid Creek, with the creek figuring into the contest humorously when some people relaxing in the area felt they should 'help' the dogs when some sheep jumped into the creek. There were dogs, sheep, and 'bystanders' all in the water and the dog handlers were in a significant state of confusion as to how to proceed. It did appear that some of the 'bystanders' had been drinking something stronger than creek water!!!! I'm not sure it was during the actual contest, or a practice session, and was the only time we happened to be in the right place at the right time to see it.

mrj, if your cows aren't used to dogs, that's some training in itself. Talk about chaotic.

Good dogs are wonderful helpers but the cows have to be used to dogs. Not sure where you would start. A lot of dogs maybe. Well-trained and very obedient dogs. Oh I can see it now............but I don't wanna........

There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.

Nor do I want to see it! And especially here, I wouldn't want to hear the discussion after the event!!!!

My idea was for the entertainment value of the films of working dogs learning to work, and of the expert ones doing their job in contest or in pastures.

Actually, I'm not sure we want our cows used to dogs, as we have lots of coyotes here and even with calving in large pastures, we very rarely lose a calf to coyotes. I mean virtually never. One incident I do recall, the cow was down after difficult calving of backward calf. The calf got its tail chewed off, before someone got to the scene and brought the pair home. Hate for those things to happen, but in range conditions, they can. just thankful it has been extremely rare.

After always having working dogs, I will say the cows know the difference between a working dog and a coyote. At least ours did and I know others who say the same thing. Not trying to talk you into anything, just letting you know. We were always short-handed when working or moving cattle, and a good dog was very valuable. We have been blessed to have had some really good ones. Maybe because Mr. FH is so good with dogs. They were always in his control, even when we had 3 three at once. They NEVER went through the cows at calving time, but stayed to the outside where they were nearby if they were needed. That seems to be a natural thing with a working dog.

There was a horse for sale on Facebook, and I always look at those. This time there was a dog in the picture, a dog that looked just like our very best dog so I complimented the horse and then asked about the dog. No one seemed to know what she was or where she came from. I'd sure take another if I could find one. Ours came from Pete Birrers who worked on a ranch that was sold to Ted Turner. They had raised them for many years and the dogs were known as "The Birrers Dogs" and were famous in that part of SW Montana. They have a definite look to them and you don't see many.

Here she is as a pup. She had the cows utmost respect as an older dog. She was tough as nails. Too bad they get old.

There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.

Working cow dogs are a real treat to watch. The respect cows show for them is amazing also. This does not diminish the cow's maternal responsibilities when a predator comes calling. Personally I couldn't live without my dog. A good dog desensitizes cattle making them easier to handle. An uncontrolled dog that engages cattle is a disaster. FWIW I never grew up around working dogs but I have great respect for them after observing my current dog in action.

Not quite ready for a puppy but it won't be long as our old dog is 9. him and my young dog I got from Randilianna (SP) work good together.My son and DIL got a BC pup for a wedding present. She is a smart pup and knows the commands except when she sees a cow. The other day my son went to move is small herd to better pasture and they wouldn't follow for oats so he took a chance and let the pup out, she gathered up the back end and pushed them along, he just kept off to the side with the truck. Kodi moved them about a mile, Lane was pretty proud of her and she slept good that night.

used to do a lot of ai work and would take a couple of my dogs with me to work the pens, people would just stand back and watch, knowing the dogs could do a better job than they could..While i never done it, Lynn Daniels of OK has his dogs trained to load a trailer with no help parked in a pasture using a whistle or a clicker, good dogs are better company that most cowhands lol

The lack of a major education does not equate to lack of intelligence, However a college education does not equate to intelligence!