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Topic: Mirage IIIK (Read 3702 times)

In the excellent French Secret ProjectsVolume on Fighters there is a drawingof a plane designated the Mirage IIIK butin fact resembling a Mirage F2 or a fixedwing AFVG. The drawing datesfrom 1965.Listening to M. Macron speakingEnglish on the Radio while I was readingthe book, I began wondering if the plane was intended to woo the UK awayfrom the F4 order. The US had designatedthe British F4 and F111 variants with a K.Perhaps Dassault thought that the UK mightbe persuaded to order a European plane aspart of its bid to join the EEC.I know it seems a bit far out but the 1964 to 5timeframe fits.

BAC/Dassault Mirage IIIKThe BAC/Dassault Mirage FAW.1 (known as Mirage IIIK to Dassault) was an all weather fighter operated by the RAF and Royal Navy. It was developed by BAC from Dassault's proven Mirage III family of aircraft.

I wouldn't want to land a Mirage III, even with the power of the mighty spey, on a British carrier, even if Ark royal and Eagle were far bigger than the Clem's. Otherwise, a useful aircraft to replace the RAF Hunters and Jaguars.

I checked Atar and Spey respective diameters on Wikipedia: the Atar is 1050 mm, the Spey 1092 mm. Barely 2 inch, so the Spey should fit.

the result would look similar, but hopefully better, than this one

At 1200 mm the TF30 was way too big for a Mirage III rear end, plus that engine was already a pig, and the Mirage III tight airframe made things worse.

Goodness gracious me, a French pres. speaking english :OBtw, I remember reading about a "Mirage III L" project Dassault would have done with Boeing, was to be a way for boeing to a have a light weight fighter competitor against the F-5. anyone know what engine was considered for that one, I highly doubt Boeing would have kept the ATAR. Wonder if the J79 was already considered…

It has been discussed varied times. On one hand, there is the Boeing - Dassault proposal of 1963 for a Mirage III W just as you said - for the F-5A competition. Not much detail on this one. No idea about the engine, would be fun if it had been a J79, somewhat a Kfir but a decade earlier. Ah ben tiens donc, looks like a French website has some valuable information. https://www.aviationsmilitaires.net/v2/base/view/Variant/14177.html

Later, in March 1971, was another Boeing - Dassault proposal for a J79 powered Mirage F1 to FXX. FXX was Boyd proposal that later become LWF, that the F-16 won.

Oh yes, it's the III W, not L , sorry. That is why my searches gave nothing...Right, what I wondered is , if they (Dassault) already had considered the J79 for the III W, maybe the studies would have been used for the Kfir later.

edit: Thanks for the link. It mention Pratt & Whitney would have build the ATAR 9B under license !

I can understand they went for the Atar in order to cut costs and modifications to the airframe, even more since Boeing had zero experience with supersonic jet fighters. Still there were in America much better engines than the Atar 9... J79, reheated J52 or J65, and others.

In pondering what best fit the carrier force, the ideal came in as a Mirage G for a single engined option. Powered by a variant of the Spey's older relative, the Medway....or something along those lines.

Mirage F2 and it's relatives are rather good as a basis for supersonic Fighter and Attack machines instead of Jaguar and Lightning. Potentially cheaper.

In the excellent French Secret ProjectsVolume on Fighters there is a drawingof a plane designated the Mirage IIIK butin fact resembling a Mirage F2 or a fixedwing AFVG. The drawing datesfrom 1965.Listening to M. Macron speakingEnglish on the Radio while I was readingthe book, I began wondering if the plane was intended to woo the UK awayfrom the F4 order. The US had designatedthe British F4 and F111 variants with a K.Perhaps Dassault thought that the UK mightbe persuaded to order a European plane aspart of its bid to join the EEC.I know it seems a bit far out but the 1964 to 5timeframe fits.

In the book "Le Mirage F1 et les Mirage de seconde génération à ailes en flèche", there si no Mirage IIIK, but a 3 views of a Mirage IIIF2 02, very (not exactly) similar to this IIIK as it has large apex gloves too. The IIIF2 02 is a derivative of the IIIF2 01 (later F2).The IIIF2 02 is longer (17.60 m) than the IIIK (14.16) and it has a TF 306 engine (not the Atar 9K of the IIIK).

In pondering what best fit the carrier force, the ideal came in as a Mirage G for a single engined option. Powered by a variant of the Spey's older relative, the Medway....or something along those lines.

Mirage F2 and it's relatives are rather good as a basis for supersonic Fighter and Attack machines instead of Jaguar and Lightning. Potentially cheaper.

Unfortunately the UK and France were bothlooking at VSTOL and VG as panaceas.The Mirage F2 with Rolls Royce engines could havebeen a European Phantom if it had come through themiddle. A real what-if.It might even have been able to operate off carriers.

The K designation mistified me (and my contact at Dassault) as well. the blueprint came direct from Dassault's vaults and there was no brochure to go with it. Considering previous Dassault designation ("O for Ostralia"), I suggested K for Kiwi (NZ) , Korea or Kuwait. New Zealand , coming after "Ostralia", seemed very plausible to me. The aircraft did not look like a fighter for me, more of an Anti-Shipping or Strike aircraft.