[Discussion] Why Raki-chan is loved by so many girls but not by that many boys

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Re: Why Raki-chan is loved by so many girls but not by that many boys

One thing to take into account:

Most males don't have the power within society to be heroes, regardless of whether or not they're cowards and too scared of the consequences, as there will be negative consequences, as our modern society hates heroes, as the heroic male has been nearly made extinct over the many years of human existence. Some males would like to be that heroic "do-good'er" chivalrous knight for females (and anyone for that matter), but society crushes them, even if they get the bravery to accept the punishment by society. Heroism has become the negative label of "Vigilanteism". When did we forfeit over our rights to be heroes, to do the right thing, when did society turn so evil, so oppressive of heroism, so opposed of its members doing the right thing, of us being chivalrous knights. Why are these heroic males now only found in Disney movies, and not the real world's modern society? why have we oppressed the Hero?

Where's the real life Rakis?, as females still desperately yearn and hope for them, for their return to protect and to romantically sweep the ladies off of their feet. Where's the Man, that the woman, the wife, can be so proud of-with?

Where's the "Conan the Barbarian" male?

~"I live, I love, and I slay" (from the new, Conan: the Barbarian, movie)

.

Last edited by HegemonKhan; November 05, 2011 at 03:35 AM.

"The internet’s perfect for all manner of things, but productive discussion ain’t one of them. It provides scant room for debate and infinite opportunities for fruitless point-scoring: the heady combination of perceived anonymity, gestated responses, random heckling and a notional “live audience” quickly conspire to create a “perfect storm” of perpetual bickering." - Charlie Brooker

"I hold the wolf by the ears, I am in a dangerous situation and dare not let go" -an old saying in Latin

Re: Why Raki-chan is loved by so many girls but not by that many boys

Originally Posted by HegemonKhan

One thing to take into account:

Most males don't have the power within society to be heroes, regardless of whether or not they're cowards and scared of the consequences, as there will be negative consequences, as our modern society hates heroes, as the heroic male has been nearly made extinct over the many years of human existence. Some males would like to be that heroic "do-good'er" chivalrous knight for females (and anyone for that matter), but society crushes them, even if they get the bravery to accept the punishment by society. Heroism has become the negative label of "Vigilanteism". When did we forfeit over our rights to be heroes, to do the right thing, when did society turn so evil, so oppressive of heroism, so opposed of its members doing the right thing?

Yep, the demonisation of alphas as bad boys which in turn has set a standard that encourages alphas to be bad boys, instead of possessing standards. Feminism was promoted by weakly leftist males to encourage their own access to females, and of course male feminists are not good husbands and fathers.

Re: Why Raki-chan is loved by so many girls but not by that many boys

Faintsmile1992:

Raki risked his life to save Clare, merely for the opportunity at procreation and to ensure the continuation of his lineage? If that was the only motive, then he could have accomplished this with far less trouble.

Raki didn't save Clare because of any sexual desire. He saved Clare because he genuinely loved her and appreciated what she had done back in that rabble of a town, in which he lived. Clare took him in, even when his village ostricized and banished him. He saw how she risked her life to save the humans that treated her with disdain and mistrust.

Hormones absolutely do not make you brave. Your discipline, your tenacity an your will to overcome adversity is what makes you brave, in essence it's the quality of your character.

I don't want to die. Even if that makeshift family was all nothing more than an illusion, doomed to someday fall apart. I so wish, so wish, it could have lasted the tiniest bit longer. - Norihiro Yagi

Re: Why Raki-chan is loved by so many girls but not by that many boys

Originally Posted by wickedsmile

Faintsmile1992:

Raki risked his life to save Clare, merely for the opportunity at procreation and to ensure the continuation of his lineage? If that was the only motive, then he could have accomplished this with far less trouble.

Raki didn't save Clare because of any sexual desire. He saved Clare because he genuinely loved her and appreciated what she had done back in that rabble of a town, in which he lived. Clare took him in, even when his village ostricized and banished him. He saw how she risked her life to save the humans that treated her with disdain and mistrust.

Well people do not like to accept that love and pair bonding are related to the mating instinct. I know I didn't used to think about boyfriends much, until I got broody. There's a reason why little kids don't behave like teenagers do when they're around the opposite sex.

And you're right, Clare is awesome too, she deserves someone like Raki and they'd be a great mum and dad.

Originally Posted by Wickedsmile

Hormones absolutely do not make you brave. Your discipline, your tenacity an your will to overcome adversity is what makes you brave, in essence it's the quality of your character.

Yep, Raki's manly alpha character *squee*... but testosterone is related to bravery. His bravery proves that Raki is a man!

Last edited by HegemonKhan; November 05, 2011 at 02:55 PM.
Reason: added in source of 2nd quote

Re: Why Raki-chan is loved by so many girls but not by that many boys

Oh my. Please, keep civil.

faintsmile, it's not about what is scientifically correlated. Work within the range of facts that the mangaka will most likely consider. I doubt he is looking at testosterone or hormones at all. I mean, really? Because fictional characters are created by people, there is going to be a finite scope.

I agree with wickedsmile's analysis. Raki's reasons for being with Claire were near identical to Claire's reasons for being with Teresa. That's why she even kept him near - he was like her when she was younger, and she doesn't want to make Teresa's mistakes. Although I see a lot of amusing moments where Raki seems to have a crush on Claire, when it comes to when he'll lay down his life for her, it's more because she's like a big sister. Platonic, like Claire and Teresa.

Now, as to what fans see? That's a different kettle of fish entirely. Then you're dealing with who wants to see what. As I said, this manga already has a mainly male demographic because of hot blondes in form-fitting suits kicking monster ass. Whenever Raki appears, it takes away from that and gives more to other fans who might be more interested in relationships (not necessarily romantic ones). (Also, to be fair, Raki's dub voice is like nails on chalkboard - hurts like hell.) Take the bellcurves and there'll be more girls than guys who like Raki.

Re: Why Raki-chan is loved by so many girls but not by that many boys

Originally Posted by HegemonKhan

One thing to take into account:

Most males don't have the power within society to be heroes, regardless of whether or not they're cowards and too scared of the consequences, as there will be negative consequences, as our modern society hates heroes, as the heroic male has been nearly made extinct over the many years of human existence. Some males would like to be that heroic "do-good'er" chivalrous knight for females (and anyone for that matter), but society crushes them, even if they get the bravery to accept the punishment by society. Heroism has become the negative label of "Vigilanteism". When did we forfeit over our rights to be heroes, to do the right thing, when did society turn so evil, so oppressive of heroism, so opposed of its members doing the right thing, of us being chivalrous knights. Why are these heroic males now only found in Disney movies, and not the real world's modern society? why have we oppressed the Hero?

Where's the real life Rakis?, as females still desperately yearn and hope for them, for their return to protect and to romantically sweep the ladies off of their feet. Where's the Man, that the woman, the wife, can be so proud of-with?

Where's the "Conan the Barbarian" male?

~"I live, I love, and I slay" (from the new, Conan: the Barbarian, movie)

.

Well, I'll just say I agree with some parts but mostly no. Personally, when it comes to women. I don't want to be their hero. I want them to be my equals. I think many people also agrees with me on this, both women and men alike. Hypothetically if a girl and I were in a tight jam, say stuck behind enemy line in a war torn country. I don't want her to have to relied on me the entire time to save her. I want her to help me to save us both because two person working togather will greatly improve the odds of survial and if I go down doing a fire fight, I want her to be able to continue and save herself and not froze up.... and maybe call for help once she's safe..... if I'm not dead yet.

Whenever somone talks about not enough heros in the world. I always remember this famous quote by a famous writer in the 1900s that basically very true and to the point.

"Show me a hero and I'll write you a tragedy." ~ F. Scott Fitzgerald

The point I'm trying to make is, you can't have heroes without tragedies. In the world of Claymore, there are plenty of tragedies that gives opportunities for heroes to appear. In real life, not so much so unless you are living in parts of the world where really really bad things happens all the time, like war, diseases, violent oppression among other things, you're not going to see too many opportunities for people to rise up as heroes in a classical sense.

In todays modern society, the world is moving to a more equal footing for both men and women. Women don't need to be "saved" because they can save themselves in modern society. Also unlike hundreds of years ago in the medieval era, which Claymore seems to resemble. People usually end up dead or worse for trying to be heroes thanks to the invention of personal firearms. In the old days, if you see a few punks beating up another guy, chances are you can fend them off the person if you're big and strong. Today, being big and strong doesn't mean a thing cause any of the punk could be carrying a gun. The risk of being a hero vs the reward of trying to be one are just much higher then the ole days.

Heck even the definition of heroes have been redefined. Modern day heroes arn't defined as the person who goes out to do the "right thing" but the one whom "contribute to society" with everyday work. Teachers, doctors, police, fire fighters and good parents are examples of modern day heroes and they can be both men and women. In the fictional Claymore world, it's much different since it's basically a war zone and the people living there are split between two different roles, heroes whom get stronger or victims that just end up dead without ever doing anything.

In short, there are less classical hero type out there because we have a more peaceful, humane society with greater equality more then ever and I think it's a good thing. Maybe one day, we will have a society that have no need of heroes at all because there would be no preventable would be tragedies, but I seriously doubt it.

Raki risked his life to save Clare, merely for the opportunity at procreation and to ensure the continuation of his lineage? If that was the only motive, then he could have accomplished this with far less trouble.

Raki didn't save Clare because of any sexual desire. He saved Clare because he genuinely loved her and appreciated what she had done back in that rabble of a town, in which he lived. Clare took him in, even when his village ostricized and banished him. He saw how she risked her life to save the humans that treated her with disdain and mistrust.

Hormones absolutely do not make you brave. Your discipline, your tenacity an your will to overcome adversity is what makes you brave, in essence it's the quality of your character.

I agree, Clare and Raki are like family members, just as Clare and Teresa was. They said so themselves in the manga. Most people would sacrifice a lot to keep their family members safe and go a long way to avenge the death of one.

I agree, Clare and Raki are like family members, just as Clare and Teresa was. They said so themselves in the manga. Most people would sacrifice a lot to keep their family members safe and go a long way to avenge the death of one.

I think there's more to it than that.
Clare might have liked Raki like a little brother, but I get the feeling that Raki had feelings for her.

Clare first took notice of it in Rabona, where Raki protected Clare from Cid+Galk, especially Cid's advances upon Clare (ending with Raki kicking Cid in the "groin"). Also, not to mention how Raki stayed by Clare's bedside, as she was unconscious from her first encounter with the SNY. And lastly in the cathedral arc, was obviously Raki protecting Clare from execution by Galk, shield her from decapitation with his own body, gladly willing to die with Clare, he loved her like Romeo&Juliet, if Clare was to die, he'd have to die too (this is also seen by especially Riful and Dauf, but they aren't the only ones either: Alicia+Beth, Deneve+Helen, and etc). Oops, I forgot to mention... we can arguably say that Clare might have already been lewdly-romantically flirting with Raki, by mentioning her "talents", of being able to go from an aristocratic noblewoman to a flirtatious prostitute, and then directly offering to show her flirtatious prostitute's smile to raki... Does this show that Clare already have the "hots" for Raki, offering to show her seductive smile... and heck maybe even was willing-interested in doing more as well... cough cough...

Next we see it with Raki's concern for Clare when she went on the Lido "Spiderman" male AB mission, with Clare's cutely-sweet-loving light punch to Raki's forehead.

Of course then we got the Ophelia battle, with Raki's "Monty Python's defending of Clare from Opehlia, Tis but a flesh wound, you're puny attacks don't even make me itch, you *itch Ophelia!"

Clare couldn't take it anymore, Raki was too perfect, what a hunk! "Emotions of love and romance, flooding out of control, Clare orders Raki to hug her, hug her closely, smothering his face against her chest, yes, that feels good, mmm, and you can see from the suggestive satisfied and lurid smile-smirk on her face."

Also, at the same time, Raki was finally seeing her as a beautiful woman, and not merely a big sister.

Raki, finally has his perberty/hormones kicking in, seeing Clare as a lovely young lady and not a big sister, as seen by his gulping and slight blushing at being ordered to hug her, pressing his face against her soft bosom. Yes, Raki was having his own romantic feelings, timid and shy, in this new feeling of romantic interest, "Your.. your.. asking me to hug you, asking me to press my face against your chest... gulp...I... I... I'm...not.. ready... for this.. gulp... cause I like you... I REALLY like you... you know... romantically like you... Clare... gulp".

Raki's love is proven absolute for Clare, when he's traveling with Priscilla, seeking out his love, CLARE. While Priscilla was merely seen by Raki as a monster-girl to try to help out, while he could do so. We also do see Raki faithfully, pushing away Priscilla and her advances when he was with Isley training. Oh, if only Clare new just how perfect a Man, her Raki was !!! Or, maybe she does already know, he's perfect - he'd never cheat on her, hehe.

Last edited by HegemonKhan; November 08, 2011 at 10:06 PM.

"The internet’s perfect for all manner of things, but productive discussion ain’t one of them. It provides scant room for debate and infinite opportunities for fruitless point-scoring: the heady combination of perceived anonymity, gestated responses, random heckling and a notional “live audience” quickly conspire to create a “perfect storm” of perpetual bickering." - Charlie Brooker

"I hold the wolf by the ears, I am in a dangerous situation and dare not let go" -an old saying in Latin

Re: Why Raki-chan is loved by so many girls but not by that many boys

HK has said it so perfectly, except that you'll remember she kept trying to ditch Raki-chan even as she let him travel around with her, until the eents in the Darkness in Paradise arc, where he proved himself both manly and genuinely useful. HK-sama left that bit out, and he should remember that Raki says Clare smiles for the very first time during that arc, when she gives one of those subtle kuudere smiles that mean so much.

As a kid, Clare knew how to use Teresa and turn a situation to her own advantage, so I'm sure she was testing if Raki was old enough to make the first move yet when she offered to smile like a prostitute for him.

Re: Why Raki-chan is loved by so many girls but not by that many boys

Faintsmile1992:

I find myself disgreeing with your analysis of thes early chapters. You're losing focus of the overall story by examining individual events without considering its implications on past or future events in the storyline. The beginning chapters that introduce us to Clare and Raki naturally lead up and through Teresa of the Faint Smile. By the beginning of The Slashers arc, you should have realized the parallels between Clare/Raki and Teresa/Clare. Teresa was to Clare what Clare was to Raki. Clare NEVER EVER used Teresa nor did Raki EVER use Clare. All were losts souls that found comfort in each other. Teresa became mother to Clare. For a woman dying ot loneliness, to suddenly be gifted with a child must have been a blessing from the God(s) of Rabona. Likewise for Clare, who was orphaned for so long, to finally have someone to call mother again would have lifted a overwhelming veil of despair.

Did Raki have a crush on Clare, by his reactions to Cid kissing Clare, I would assume that he had one. That's a far cry from the sexual connotations that you depict from either Clare or Raki.

I don't want to die. Even if that makeshift family was all nothing more than an illusion, doomed to someday fall apart. I so wish, so wish, it could have lasted the tiniest bit longer. - Norihiro Yagi

Re: Why Raki-chan is loved by so many girls but not by that many boys

Originally Posted by wickedsmile

Faintsmile1992:

I find myself disgreeing with your analysis of thes early chapters. You're losing focus of the overall story by examining individual events without considering its implications on past or future events in the storyline. The beginning chapters that introduce us to Clare and Raki naturally lead up and through Teresa of the Faint Smile.

Yep, and I don't see how anyone can miss that, however there are differences as well as similarities.

Quote:

By the beginning of The Slashers arc, you should have realized the parallels between Clare/Raki and Teresa/Clare. Teresa was to Clare what Clare was to Raki. Clare NEVER EVER used Teresa nor did Raki EVER use Clare. All were losts souls that found comfort in each other. Teresa became mother to Clare. For a woman dying ot loneliness, to suddenly be gifted with a child must have been a blessing from the God(s) of Rabona. Likewise for Clare, who was orphaned for so long, to finally have someone to call mother again would have lifted a overwhelming veil of despair.

People use one another all the time but they don't like to think about it that way. Raki, Clare and Teresa all had instinctual desires to be fulfilled, and they fulfilled these needs in one another. You'll notice the desires involved were different for Teresa and Clare and the similarity is the presence of a desire at all, and that Clare and Raki were initially pushed away. Teresa had maternal instincts and teenage Clare starts developing mating instincts when she's around Raki once he enters adolescence himself. Until the Darkness in Paradise arc, she tries to abandon him. And she only gets truly attached to Raki as he becomes adolescent.

Quote:

Did Raki have a crush on Clare, by his reactions to Cid kissing Clare, I would assume that he had one. That's a far cry from the sexual connotations that you depict from either Clare or Raki.

If you can't pick up on the subtexts that exist between Raki and Clare, and there' a lot of wierd sexual themes and innuendo in Claymore, then you are very innocent indeed. Even the female AB that says Raki smells good is a toothed vagina monster, and the change in body odour associated with puberty has a place in Japanese culture (ie it means that girls are becoming attracted to Takkun in FLCL).

Re: Why Raki-chan is loved by so many girls but not by that many boys

Faintsmile1992:

I still disagree with you in regards to Clare attempting to leave Raki. Could you please elaborate with specific examples from the Darkness in Paradise arc? If anything, I found that their bond grew stronger through out the chapter. If you're referring to Clare's request of Father Vincent sheltering Raki, then you error in your thinking. Clare knew that she could die on this mission. She sought to ensure Raki's future, since he had none other on whom depend.

You get the sense that Clare is growing quite fond of Raki by the end of Darkness in Paradise. Raki throwing himself onto her to prevent her from awakening and staying by her side as she lay on her death bed touched Clare deeply. She realized how much Raki cared for her. Raki allowed Clare to open herself emotionally. Do they care for each other by this time? They absolutely do. However, there isn't anything in the graphics or in the text to imply a sexual relationship or even the beginning of one. They do imply the formation of a very strong and heart warming friendship.

In the Endless Gravestones arc, you do see Clare kissing Raki. If you want to imply the revelation of Clare's amorous feelings for Raki, then I won't disgree with you there. Sex is a natural progression of such a relationship. If you want to impose real life psychology at this point and say that Clare "may" have wanted sex, then perhaps you're right. Whether it has relevance to the Claymore story, I don't believe it has.

I don't want to die. Even if that makeshift family was all nothing more than an illusion, doomed to someday fall apart. I so wish, so wish, it could have lasted the tiniest bit longer. - Norihiro Yagi

Re: Why Raki-chan is loved by so many girls but not by that many boys

Originally Posted by wickedsmile

Faintsmile1992:
In the Endless Gravestones arc, you do see Clare kissing Raki. If you want to imply the revelation of Clare's amorous feelings for Raki, then I won't disgree with you there. Sex is a natural progression of such a relationship. If you want to impose real life psychology at this point and say that Clare "may" have wanted sex, then perhaps you're right. Whether it has relevance to the Claymore story, I don't believe it has.

I agree with you there. Personally when it comes to fiction in both books and movies, I try not to debunk it using real life law, physics, or psychology when I'm trying to enjoy it. Most of the times, I find real life facts just does not apply to fiction, especially manga. Like child Clare falling off from that cliff without sustaning any injuries. In short Claymore is purely fiction and as such only "anime physics" and "anime psychology" applies. How Clare and Raki feel about each other sexually, I think only Yagi himself can explain that one. Who knows, maybe he just draw it in because he think people would like to see them kiss.

Re: Why Raki-chan is loved by so many girls but not by that many boys

Actually part of the appeal of Claymore is the realistic psychology of the characters. Besides my crush on Raki and the general coolness of Claymore in general, Claymore is actually relevant to my life.

Re: Why Raki-chan is loved by so many girls but not by that many boys

Wickedsmile is correct, as we don't know when the "desired beautiful girl" over "big sister" occured with Raki, until the hugging escape from Ophelia.

As Raki could still simply care, loving, Clare as his "big sister".

there's a huge difference between love (like between siblings, parent-child, family including pets, and friends) and lust (romantic/sexual physically intimacy or love).

----------------

actually now that I'm thinking about it... Wickedsmile is really correct... as if Raki was interested in Clare as a beautiful girl... he (well most guys would anyways) would gladly see that "flirtatious smile", and probably want to "find a room", as that seems to be Clare's wanting... based on the way she is behaving towards Raki... hehe

notice his response to her "flirtatious smile" vs his response to her "hug me close"

Last edited by HegemonKhan; November 13, 2011 at 04:06 PM.

"The internet’s perfect for all manner of things, but productive discussion ain’t one of them. It provides scant room for debate and infinite opportunities for fruitless point-scoring: the heady combination of perceived anonymity, gestated responses, random heckling and a notional “live audience” quickly conspire to create a “perfect storm” of perpetual bickering." - Charlie Brooker

"I hold the wolf by the ears, I am in a dangerous situation and dare not let go" -an old saying in Latin