Microsoft may clone iPod touch as Zune HD - Page 4

If MS wanted to rock the world … they would come out with something revolutionary all on their own.

- Something no one has dreamt of yet …
- Something evryone would love to see, but that no one offers (yet)
- Something folks don't even know THEY want or need, and then go about making it, and convincing us, we ALL need it.

If you re-read my post, it is talking of the idea of what this COULD be, and how exciting THAT is. not what IS, and what WILL be. you just sound like someone scared. which never happens to those of us that dont put emotions into a company that doesnt care about us (could be said for apple OR MS)

I will admit, Goat, that I really do understand what you are trying to say. But I have only just been introduced to your writing style. You have had a lifetime to get used to it.

Why do I have to read your posts two or three times to get the gist of them? Why do I have to step over poorly crafted, badly punctuated, paragraphs that repeat your message in a semi SHOUTING manner?

I don't want to be a grammar Nazi, and if English is not your first language then please take my criticism accordingly. Try and tidy things up a little. Keep it simple (I won't say stupid!).

One last tip. Overusing the F word won't help your case. (I mean Fanboy!) Accusing people of being scared or childish and suggesting they are idiots or look like asses will not win you any friends.... dumbs down a whole thread.... and could end in sanctions against you.

Want to get your ideas across? Want a conversation? Be succinct and relatively polite. Keep the rants for special occasions.

I don't want to be a grammer Nazi, and if English is not your first language then please take my criticism accordingly. Try and tidy things up a little. Keep it simple (I won't say stupid!).

One last tip. Overusing the F word won't help your case. (I mean Fanboy!) Accusing people of being scared or childish and suggesting they are idiots or look like asses will not win you any friends.... dumbs down a whole thread.... and could end in sanctions against you.

Want to get your ideas across? Want a conversation? Be succinct and relatively polite. Keep the rants for special occasions.

its an internet forum. everything i wrote was simple to understand. was it proper grammar? no. it was full of sarcasm, however that does not make it "bad".

now i dont want to be a grammar nazi either, but the last thing im going to do is take grammar advice from someone who cant even spell the word (you). i have college level writing when i need it, when im on an internet message board i spend seconds writing, and in most cases it comes out in the same order that it was originally thought.

if you find yourself getting offended at someone, stop, re-read what they said to see if they are really saying anything offensive or if you are just not used to people typing the way they type. if you are still offended, then try and discuss it with them without directly attacking them first. that is my advice to you.

"Articles like this get under my skin. MS is following the market, they are not "copying" a copy would be something that looked almost the exact same, Apps have been around for a VERY long time, does that mean Apple copied places like XBLA/PSN/FireFox? no.

they are moving with the times, and this was obviously the next step. they are NOT copying apple, they are only moving with what they know to be the next step in the market. Apple was first to get there, because they understand reinventing the market better than most companies, but that does not make everyone else "copiers" especially when other companies (including Microsoft) have had concepts of these ideas for YEARS. they just lack the balls to go through with it.

then adding a negative article to it, just to make this seem less impressive? its almost childish.

this looks like a VERY promising device. if it turns out to be a phone, they could easily make just as many sales as apple if they make it Verizon exclusive (letting the rivalry between att/verizon determine who gets each product)

if not? it still looks like it could be pretty bad ass.

i have an iPhone, so ive got all i need, but there are billions of other people out there ready to get something... the article is just such rubbish."

oh, and im far from forgetting your little contribution that got you into this conversation... "an idiot could write it" speaking of my post. sure i got carried away and called the guy an idiot (more implied). however he personally attacked me 3 times in one post, i had the right to attack him back, mature? no. understandable? yes.

quickly received this as a reply:

" So.... based on nothing more than a picture of a rectangular touch screen thing you're willing to declare it a "VERY promising device" and "pretty bad ass" but the article is "childish."

Plus, you know that they couldn't possibly be following Apple here, because obviously pictures of rectangular touch screen things are the inevitable next step and Apple just happened to get there first.

And, oh! If it "turns out to be a phone" then it will, of course, "easily" match the iPhone in sales, because, as everyone knows, the market has been longing for a phone that's a picture of a rectangular touch screen thing, and trivial bits like how it works or how much it costs or battery life or applications or peripherals pale in comparison to PICTURES OF RECTANGULAR TOUCH SCREEN THINGS.

Fuck, and people talk about "Apple fan boys.""

im called a fanboy because the article was rubbish (face it, it was a horrible article, as far as balanced as you can get). yet it is me that continues to get "advice" and "suggestions" from other members. even after it is instantly implied that i am "childish" for thinking that the product looks good in pictures, even though the same thing happened here when the first iPhone pictures were shown. then i am of course a "fanboy" because i like both Apple and MS stuff, which obviously because i think this single picture looks promising means that im an MS fanboy, it could not be because the device in the picture actually looks very nice, that would be absurd.

now maybe you'll go and talk to addabox about how to be respectful/polite when he starts talking to another member... no, you wouldnt do that.

The designers and engineers at Apple get high! DUH!... You have to be on some level to design an interface like that! When I'm stoned, I can easily navigate my mac, in fact, I see how deliberate the words in the Mac prompts are. More intelligent, not condescending, consise... etc. no BSOD!!!

I, for one, would find your long posts a lot easier to read and/or respond to if you took a moment to learn how to use the "quote" feature that is common to boards such as AI.

It sure makes it a lot easier to understand what quote was posted by whom and when.

Other than that? You do come across as a wee bit edgy in your posts. Perhaps you should get out more?

Oh, wait... you're in Alaska.... that might not be possible at times.

Nevermind.

yeah, was being lazy... however im not in alaska again until next week, im in Mass. was in vermont 2 days ago, will be in Missoula MT in a few days, then over night hanging out at the Dennys outside of SeaTac in Washington, then finally to Ketchikan, the southern most city in Alaska. i get around... that made me sound like a whore.

anyway, i might be edgy, however that doesnt mean i should be personally attacked, then attacked again by multiple members when i insult the original attacker... him of course not being talked to once... meh.

yeah, was being lazy... however im not in alaska again until next week, im in Mass. was in vermont 2 days ago, will be in Missoula MT in a few days, then over night hanging out at the Dennys outside of SeaTac in Washington, then finally to Ketchikan, the southern most city in Alaska. i get around... that made me sound like a whore.

anyway, i might be edgy, however that doesnt mean i should be personally attacked, then attacked again by multiple members when i insult the original attacker... him of course not being talked to once... meh.

You're attacked because you set yourself to be attacked. If you choose to write in a maniac style using only the most rudimentary grammar skills and not thinking prior to writing then you will get attacked.

BTW, you were not called a fanboy, yet you keep saying that you were. I think I can definitely state that you are not a fanboy of your prescription meds... and I wish you were.

Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"

You're attacked because you set yourself to be attacked. If you choose to write in a maniac style using only the most rudimentary grammar skills and not thinking prior to writing then you will get attacked.

BTW, you were not called a fanboy, yet you keep saying that you were. I think I can definitely state that you are not a fanboy of your prescription meds... and I wish you were.

it was clearly insinuating that i was the MS fanboy.

awesome more insults from the "mature" crowd.

also, if you cant understand what im writing you need to get back to school, it may not be proper, but its understandable.

Edit: also i dont understand how i was "setting myself up for it" when i did not personally attack apple in anyway, only the person who wrote this terrible excuse for an article. i could write better, and its not even my profession. hell i even talked about how good apple is at what it does, and how more often does it better than MS.

also, if you cant understand what im writing you need to get back to school, it may not be proper, but its understandable.

Edit: also i dont understand how i was "setting myself up for it" when i did not personally attack apple in anyway, only the person who wrote this terrible excuse for an article. i could write better, and its not even my profession. hell i even talked about how good apple is at what it does, and how more often does it better than MS.

It was insinuated that you are worse than an Apple fanboy in that sense. I can understand you, just as I can under a small child and psychiatric patients, but that doesn't mean it makes for worthwhile reading. I'm amazed that you are so sensitive and take things so personally but have yet to a damn thing a bout changing your maniac, immature and uneducated manner of speak. Well, enough of this, I only have one choice left to me. \

edit: It has nothing to do with you liking or disliking Apple or MS. You were attacked for the manner in which you write while attacking the author on his writing. Until you start to write like a sane adult don't profess that you are a better writer. Perhaps prove through example next time.

Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"

It was insinuated that you are worse than an Apple fanboy in that sense. I can understand you, just as I can under a small child and psychiatric patients, but that doesn't mean it makes for worthwhile reading. I'm amazed that you are so sensitive and take things so personally but have yet to a damn thing a bout changing your maniac, immature and uneducated manner of speak. Well, enough of this, I only have one choice left to me. \

edit: It has nothing to do with you liking or disliking Apple or MS. You were attacked for the manner in which you write while attacking the author on his writing. Until you start to write like a sane adult don't profess that you are a better writer. Perhaps prove through example next time.

yeah, youve insulted me 5-6 times and im the immature one? i dont take grammar too seriously on an internet forum, must like most of the members, obviously.

if that bothers that much, then stop reading my posts, and stop making personal attacks because im straight forward and say exactly what i mean without sugar coating it. its not my fault you cant handle that.

also, your vocabulary has been even more restricted than mine, you have no room to talk about "understanding me like you would a child"

If a company produces a product that has been deemed a failure by the industry and consumers, that product would be discontinued. Remember the Fat Nano or the Cube?

Since when was the fatty nano a "failure"? They sold millions of those things, is there any reason to believe that it sold any worse than the nanos before or after that model?

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmilinGoat

wow... really? im not worked up. you may look like a bit of an ass. but im perfectly calm.

All evidence points to the contrary.

I don't get the rabid defense of this vaporware. Nothing is really known about it other than it is supposed to be thicker than an ipod touch with a smaller screen. And it can't run any of the thousands of iPhone apps. The problem they face is that even if this unit is better than the equivalent ipod, it still faces an uphill battle based on market share (which boils down to app support). If MS couldn't take on the iPod, which could play any mp3 files, they're going to have an even harder time taking on a platform that runs apps.

Since when was the fatty nano a "failure"? They sold millions of those things, is there any reason to believe that it sold any worse than the nanos before or after that model?

I know a couple people that actually prefer the fatty Nano because they can watch video without turning the display. But I also know people that like the candy bar shape more. Funny how some on this forum don't think that a personal preference should be accounted for if it varies from theirs. I didn't care for it until i saw it in person, but I have an iPhone and Shuffle so my PMP needs were met otherwise I may have gotten it.

Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"

oh yeah, i am too, which is why ive been saying "if its even real". but if it is real, it does have potential, you would expect that MS would have enough sense to make a product that had the same stats of the iPhone, if they do that, then we pretty much just have to wait for an app store (something MS does well with the Xbox) and the good stuff will just flow in, much like it did for the iPhone.

the only thing that excites me is that this, if real, has a lot of potential. the Zune was a very good product, and still is when compared to the iPod classic, which it competes with. so yeah, i think MS could do a good job with a phone, why not?

as for me actually ever purchasing it? no. i have an iPhone and a contract. but competition will help push the market forward...

i was just as excited for Android, which still has yet to really come out swinging, but this year might also be changing that with the new hardware...

oh yeah, i am too, which is why ive been saying "if its even real". but if it is real, it does have potential, you would expect that MS would have enough sense to make a product that had the same stats of the iPhone, if they do that, then we pretty much just have to wait for an app store (something MS does well with the Xbox) and the good stuff will just flow in, much like it did for the iPhone.

the only thing that excites me is that this, if real, has a lot of potential. the Zune was a very good product, and still is when compared to the iPod classic, which it competes with. so yeah, i think MS could do a good job with a phone, why not?

as for me actually ever purchasing it? no. i have an iPhone and a contract. but competition will help push the market forward...

i was just as excited for Android, which still has yet to really come out swinging, but this year might also be changing that with the new hardware...

Well, I'm not quite getting this.

First, there's no particular reason to think the image in question is even a phone. More likely, if it represents a shipping product, it's a Zune iteration intended to compete head to head with the Touch. I mean, if I were MS and I wasn't bailing on the Zune line altogether, that's what I'd do.

If it is, then, like I've said, I'm sure it will fine, and, for the small subset of users who are always looking for an excuse to avoid Apple, would be a good choice. But "exciting"? Not unless "reasonably competitive with a few bells and whistles albeit doomed by market share and peripheral ecosystem" strikes anyone as exciting.

Right? I mean, the existing Zunes are perfectly nice, but I don't think anyone thinks of them as "holy shit, this is how it's done" nice, do they?

And, if it is a phone, well, there are plenty of touch screen phones running MS software already on the market, so unless they're pulling a "plays for sure" switcheroo and plan to cut their hardware partners off at the knees by releasing an in-house phone that runs software that's lots better than what they're selling, I can't see where MS would be doing anything revelatory here.

What would MS bring to the table that HTC has not? And, if they do bring something that's exclusive to their in-house development effort, what does competing with their own OEM partners do to those relationships?

They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.

oh yeah, i am too, which is why ive been saying "if its even real". but if it is real, it does have potential, you would expect that MS would have enough sense to make a product that had the same stats of the iPhone, if they do that, then we pretty much just have to wait for an app store (something MS does well with the Xbox) and the good stuff will just flow in, much like it did for the iPhone.

But ANYTHING has the potential to be awesome. Or totally suck. At this point it's vaporware, and no info has been put forward to give the expectation that it would beat the iPhone in any way.

And "just have to wait for an app store (something MS does well with the Xbox) and the good stuff will just flow in" seems incredibly unrealistic.

Devs made tons of iPhone apps because the device was incredibly popular already. With a new device, it's a chicken and egg situation - people won't buy it for apps until the apps appear, but the devs won't create the apps until there's significant enough market penetration. Ironically, it's the same situation mac apps have faced over the years.

MS certainly could in theory make a device as good as the iPhone or better (assuming iPhone hasn't improved past that point by then). But even if they do, the lack of apps puts it at a disadvantage to the ipod touch.

First, there's no particular reason to think the image in question is even a phone. More likely, if it represents a shipping product, it's a Zune iteration intended to compete head to head with the Touch. I mean, if I were MS and I wasn't bailing on the Zune line altogether, that's what I'd do.

If it is, then, like I've said, I'm sure it will fine, and, for the small subset of users who are always looking for an excuse to avoid Apple, would be a good choice. But "exciting"? Not unless "reasonably competitive with a few bells and whistles albeit doomed by market share and peripheral ecosystem" strikes anyone as exciting.

Right? I mean, the existing Zunes are perfectly nice, but I don't think anyone thinks of them as "holy shit, this is how it's done" nice, do they?

And, if it is a phone, well, there are plenty of touch screen phones running MS software already on the market, so unless they're pulling a "plays for sure" switcheroo and plan to cut their hardware partners off at the knees by releasing an in-house phone that runs software that's lots better than what they're selling, I can't see where MS would be doing anything revelatory here.

What would MS bring to the table that HTC has not? And, if they do bring something that's exclusive to their in-house development effort, what does competing with their own OEM partners do to those relationships?

obviously its all speculation. obviously.

again, if it is a phone MS would have the ability to doe something none of the other phone manufacturers can right now, and that is to bring to the table everything that the iPhone is/has. HTC can do perfectly good hardware, however they dont have any infristructure for music.

it also has style, something people look for in a phone. HTC doesn't have that.

finally, most phones on the market right now are single point touch screens, if this is multipoint (using what MS already has with the MS surface) then this could turn out to be pretty good.

again, its all about potential, its only a single image that may not even be real. exciting in theory only, much like when video game maker like sony/nintendo/ms release a new console, for that first 6 months of sitting back and waiting, you basically just get little peaks at what it could have...

But ANYTHING has the potential to be awesome. Or totally suck. At this point it's vaporware, and no info has been put forward to give the expectation that it would beat the iPhone in any way.

And "just have to wait for an app store (something MS does well with the Xbox) and the good stuff will just flow in" seems incredibly unrealistic.

Devs made tons of iPhone apps because the device was incredibly popular already. With a new device, it's a chicken and egg situation - people won't buy it for apps until the apps appear, but the devs won't create the apps until there's significant enough market penetration. Ironically, it's the same situation mac apps have faced over the years.

MS certainly could in theory make a device as good as the iPhone or better (assuming iPhone hasn't improved past that point by then). But even if they do, the lack of apps puts it at a disadvantage to the ipod touch.

again, its all speculation, thats all you can do with a photo like this. but if it is real, a device that looks like this could easily open a lot of doors.

and again, im not saying that it will be "As good or better" than the iPhone, im simply saying that it could compete with it, and therefor would probably succeed, the phone market is very different from the MP3 player market, people are far more likely to get a non-apple phone than they are to get a non-apple MP3 player.

if they put it on networks that dont have the iPhone (and therefor its not even directly competing) then they would just have more opportunity to sell it, which is my point, it could still be madly successful without even being as good as an iPhone.

Edit: the app store would be the least of their worries, the devs already working with apple could easily port the apps to new devices (they already are with android phones) that along with MS making their own, and their game studios... a lot of these apps are very cheap to produce, which means even if there are "only" a few million of the handset sold, then devs still will be making a profit. MS would also have the advantage to see what is already on the market, and how well certain apps sell, so they could clone those instantly.

again, if it is a phone MS would have the ability to doe something none of the other phone manufacturers can right now, and that is to bring to the table everything that the iPhone is/has. HTC can do perfectly good hardware, however they dont have any infristructure for music.

it also has style, something people look for in a phone. HTC doesn't have that.

finally, most phones on the market right now are single point touch screens, if this is multipoint (using what MS already has with the MS surface) then this could turn out to be pretty good.

again, its all about potential, its only a single image that may not even be real. exciting in theory only, much like when video game maker like sony/nintendo/ms release a new console, for that first 6 months of sitting back and waiting, you basically just get little peaks at what it could have...

But all of that (and I'm not willing to concede that the touch table thing MS has shown has any bearing on handset software) would require MS to release a phone running a version of WinMob that isn't available to its OEM partners.

Which would be kind of a huge problem, especially if such a phone were successful.

Is it in Microsoft's best interests to kill off HTC's Windows Mobile business?

They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.

But all of that (and I'm not willing to concede that the touch table thing MS has shown has any bearing on handset software) would require MS to release a phone running a version of WinMob that isn't available to its OEM partners.

Which would be kind of a huge problem, especially if such a phone were successful.

Is it in Microsoft's best interests to kill off HTC's Windows Mobile business?

in the long run, if they had to kill of HTC's WinMo business (which they wouldnt have to do) it probably would be better to have a single device for a software, so the software is a perfect fit for the hardware. something that has been helping apple out a lot lately.

the surface interface/tech is scalable, maybe not in full (obviously it would not have the 3d imaging tech) but the screen is much like that of the iPhone, and the software is similar as well.

in the long run, if they had to kill of HTC's WinMo business (which they wouldnt have to do) it probably would be better to have a single device for a software, so the software is a perfect fit for the hardware. something that has been helping apple out a lot lately.

the surface interface/tech is scalable, maybe not in full (obviously it would not have the 3d imaging tech) but the screen is much like that of the iPhone, and the software is similar as well.

But isn't the whole selling point of Windows Mobile (according to Ballmer) that it runs on multiple devices and give Microsoft's customers "choice"?

They could do it, I guess, but it would be a huge sea change for their strategy.

As far as Surface goes, doesn't it seem like vast overkill to try and scale that down to a phone? There are easier ways of developing touch gestures for a handset, I would think.

They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.

But isn't the whole selling point of Windows Mobile (according to Ballmer) that it runs on multiple devices and give Microsoft's customers "choice"?

They could do it, I guess, but it would be a huge sea change for their strategy.

As far as Surface goes, doesn't it seem like vast overkill to try and scale that down to a phone? There are easier ways of developing touch gestures for a handset, I would think.

well thats what im talking about, taking what they have learned from surface, and implement it into a phone.

i would expect them (hypothetically) to do WinMo7 which will still be pretty suspect at best, then on top of WinMo as a platform, they would do a Zune exclusive version that is more for just that single device.

im simply saying that it could compete with it, and therefor would probably succeed, the phone market is very different from the MP3 player market, people are far more likely to get a non-apple phone than they are to get a non-apple MP3 player.

So "compete with it" is all that is necessary to probably succeed? So why haven't palm or blackberry been able to do that yet? Or MS already with all the windows mobile phones that are already shipping?

You're right, the smartphone market is very different. But due to the success of the app store, I'd argue that in this next generation it's even harder to compete with apple.

How exactly is MS going to get the 20 thousand apps that iPhone reached so fast, particularly starting from zero installed base?

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmilinGoat

if they put it on networks that dont have the iPhone (and therefor its not even directly competing)

Except that it sure looks like the iPhone has been compelling enough that people are willing to change networks for it. Sure looks like it is directly competing with all the phones on other networks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmilinGoat

Edit: the app store would be the least of their worries, the devs already working with apple could easily port the apps to new devices (they already are with android phones) that along with MS making their own, and their game studios... a lot of these apps are very cheap to produce, which means even if there are "only" a few million of the handset sold, then devs still will be making a profit. MS would also have the advantage to see what is already on the market, and how well certain apps sell, so they could clone those instantly.

I'm skeptical about "easily" and I'm skeptical that most devs will be motivated to go to the trouble of porting. After all, it's the same situation as macs and pcs, why bother with the marginal platform? Devs have already had the opportunity to do apps for windows mobile, I don't see why an iPhone knockoff would get them much more excited.

*Sigh* No fun. This forum is weak. I attempted to infiltrate it, and though succesful, was too bored to continue. Not only is Zune more fun, even the forums are more colored, personal, warm, gestured, and so much more. Zuneboards is my home, this place is an abyss of white.

Post Script: You can't even have an Avatar....what...in...the world. And for you sheltered iPod users, an Avatar is a picture that you can use to express yourself.

Post Script: You can't even have an Avatar....what...in...the world. And for you sheltered iPod users, an Avatar is a picture that you can use to express yourself.

If you want to express yourself why not try posting something of substance. An 40x40 pic that you stole off the internet isn't exactly expressing yourself. It's just goofy little a facade that shallow people think makes them cool.

Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"

If you want to express yourself why not try posting something of substance. An 40x40 pic that you stole off the internet isn't exactly expressing yourself. It's just goofy little a facade that shallow people think makes them cool.