SteveZee wrote:Simply put, there are too many people on the planet. We've passed the point of being able to maintain or sustain. There are just not enough resources or food to maintain the growth.

Go here: http://www.cato.org/ and type in "resources". You'll find a lot of information to the contrary.

I aint even mad today, not being argumentative, but there are other opinoins as to the resource issue. I heard only 3% of the world's land surface area is populated. Personally I do believe there are about 5 billion too many useless eaters on the planet; I don't have any answers...

I went through a blackout after Irene, and now again this year from Sandy. It is plainly apparent that the comforts I took for granted for a lifetime can be gone in the blink of an eye. If they can't take our right to self-protection they'll make an end run and starve us out of the will to fight for our country. supermarket shelves can be emptied in a day or three, they can cut the municipal water and NG supplies too if it comes to it.At my age and my degree of laziness, and the densely populated area I live in; I'm not gonna be able to make a concerted effort to survive unless I hook up with a survival community out in the boonies somewhere.It's unbelievable to consider the changes that have taken place in our beloved country just the last five or six years.

Might be right Dann and I imagine that what you went through is an eye opener for sure about what could be. I was just saying that eventually, if we keep growing exponentially, we'll be like any other species or microbe for that matter and be unable to sustain.It took X amount of 100,000 years of man on earth to get to a billion people in about 1800. That doubled by 1927, just 127 yrs later. About 47 years later in 1974 it was 4 bil. We are at about 7 billion now. There comes a tipping point for every species. Wars, disease, natural disasters etc... all combine to hold us back, but technology and modern medicine has kept pace thus far. How far it can go remains to be seen.

Katrina and Sandy are being used as tests of the bulk of the non effected Americans response to abuses. Where is the outrage against the gov. breaking down doors and taking peoples weapons? Where is the outrage over the lack of support and help right in the middle of the most densely populated part of the US? Where is the media? The cops shot people running across a bridge unarmed in New Orleans, the National Guard was doing military training. The rest of us go on with our lives, nothing to see here folks, move along. If the cities are shut down, like Dann says, the country folk will be to busy fighting off the hordes fleeing the chaos to fight the gov. 2 birds killed with one stone. Then use willing military to mop up the rest of the surviving resistance or bring in outside troops. Sorry, but it is just that easy. Americans are no longer useful to the livestock herders because we have become to fat and lazy. Our healthcare, entitlements, and middle class wages are eating up resources that are finite. Better to wipe us out and start with a population willing to work hard for less and attain high productivity in your workers once again for the reduced amount of resources used up. Morbid?? Yes. Realistic? Maybe. But the split between the opposing views of this is widening fast. People are rushing to either side and there are less people setting on the fence. There are plenty whom are oblivious to anything, but they will make the realization to late. 15 years ago I would have said you were crazy if you said I would post such a thing as this in a public forum. After 5 years of people standing up and declaring publicly that they are Communist, Marxist, Socialist, etc and they are going to transform America and they start doing it, against the Constitution, I have transformed also.

My question for you pro-gov. people is this. Over and over you state that it can't happen here, blah, blah. So, be more definitive. Why do you say this when history is full of examples of this happening and the pattern that some of us observe and point out is blatantly obvious? What makes Obama, who has shown to be devoid of emotion, NOT capable of becoming a Tyrant. When he is surrounded by self admitted anti-capitalist and has stated in his books that he also hates it? Give us some more of your intellect then,"It can't happen here." Or,"move along, nothing to see here." crap. What makes us different then other collections of people with a government that only grows larger and more powerful?

Well, Steve just weighed in before I posted. And may have answered the question. Is that how you feel? And where do you see yourself in this new reduced population?

If you are unseen, there are no hoardes to fight off. Those in the cities are screwed. They can run to the hills, but what is that white collar stock exchanger going to do once he is in the woods?

There is a movement that is going on right now, unseen to most. A movement of people preparing for the worst, linking up, sharing resources, bunkers, crops, animals, etc. And if I know of such a movement, then I gaurantee there are some near every one of you. All they ask is you bring something to the group, and you are in. There are bunkers that would blow your mind that are completely off the grid and full of food and other essentials, some might be right in your neighbors back yard...

The goal is not to have to fight anyone. Survive and thrive while others who chose to keep their heads buried deeply in the sand are dying by the thousands. What is mine is mine, and if that time came, I would fight to protect it by any means neccesary.

I hope I die an old man with 1000s of pounds of food stored, never having to use it. I dream of that day. Living underground would suck, but if you can do it until the dust clears, you will come out to a new world.

I refuse to watch my children starve to death. I refuse to watch them see the horrors that are coming. I refuse to die on my knees.

Our neighbor was at a party at a house not to far from mine. She told my wife that the wife of the house took all the women downstairs to "show them something". What was there was a giant store of food,water, and more guns and ammo then you could shoot in a months time running 200 rounds a day.

That is 1 house. That is 1 family. They are out there. Link up. Have a plan. Keep your ass alive.

I believe they are deliberately pushing our buttons. They're just ... well, I'd say PRAYING, but I seriously doubt that is even a thought with these people .... so I'll say HOPING someone will snap and try to storm D.C.. Occupy Wall Street was a complete and utter failure, so now they're trying to get US to take their place. They WANT us in the streets, armed and pissed off ... because once people give in and do that, they have the upper hand. You know full well our government can and will squash such a rebellion in minutes. Then they'll have the excuse they need to throw the Constitution in the trash and start over with a "new", environmentally and gay friendly "constitution".

My strategy? I'm staying put. Not going anywhere. IF they come for my guns, I WILL NOT COMPLY. How that ends, I don't know. Maybe with me in jail? SO be it. They can't arrest us all. I can only hope the rest of my neighbors have the intestinal fortitude to stand up for the Constitution and tell the gun grabbers to go *censored* themselves. That's our best way out. If we can avoid firing one shot then we're ahead of the game. As soon as bullets start flying, they've got us right where they want us. DON'T play into their hand.

Like Glenn Beck said today, as soon as you become "Occupy", you have lost all respect - nobody will back you, and you will fail.

I think your right "Smitty" they are just waiting for someone to snap so they can make their move, then we'll get the see we told you so. I sold mine but if I still had them ,I'd hide them. When they came for them I'd tell them I didn't have them anymore. Can they really put millions of Americans in jail? Put our sons and daughters in jail and see what a caged animal does. SHTF!

SMITTY wrote:I believe they are deliberately pushing our buttons. They're just ... well, I'd say PRAYING, but I seriously doubt that is even a thought with these people .... so I'll say HOPING someone will snap and try to storm D.C.. Occupy Wall Street was a complete and utter failure, so now they're trying to get US to take their place. They WANT us in the streets, armed and pissed off ... because once people give in and do that, they have the upper hand. You know full well our government can and will squash such a rebellion in minutes. Then they'll have the excuse they need to throw the Constitution in the trash and start over with a "new", environmentally and gay friendly "constitution".

My strategy? I'm staying put. Not going anywhere. IF they come for my guns, I WILL NOT COMPLY. How that ends, I don't know. Maybe with me in jail? SO be it. They can't arrest us all. I can only hope the rest of my neighbors have the intestinal fortitude to stand up for the Constitution and tell the gun grabbers to go *censored* themselves. That's our best way out. If we can avoid firing one shot then we're ahead of the game. As soon as bullets start flying, they've got us right where they want us. DON'T play into their hand.

Like Glenn Beck said today, as soon as you become "Occupy", you have lost all respect - nobody will back you, and you will fail.

If they come for your guns at your house you don't fight them. You give them all the ones that we didn't lose in our boating accident and wait. Being a a martyr won't do any good. Gotta be smart about it. And Patient. And group at that point. I am waiting to see what happens in Australia as well. I wonder what percentage of guns were actually turned in.

They've had a few amnesty turn in's in La La land. People turned in illegal handguns (mostly) and were given chits for groceries or some such? I don't see that happening with ALL firearms personally. Maybe a specific type or large capacity mags? We'll see.

Ever since I sold my assault musket which was a Civil War Springfield (with bayonet) I don't have any guns. It was a military gun which is just what the second amendment certainly implies that all Americans have a right to own.

The gun was kind of heavy and pretty slow to load, not having any magazines and such, but that bayonet was real scary being long enough to go through two people.

This latest Washington tempest in a teapot will blow over too. The big danger is mistaking all the hot air for a hurricane.

franco b wrote: ... The big danger is mistaking all the hot air for a hurricane.

Very well said Franco. I hope the whole country gets that message. This admin is COUNTING on us rising up, so they have the excuse to do what they REALLY want to do - ELIMINATE the Second Amendment. We've got to be smart about it like Flyer said. Occupy was a failure, so they want us to take their place. Not gonna happen. I hope ...

The other side to all of this is .... now, the media is paying ZERO attention to the debt ceiling. Always watch the other hand ....

Yes Obama and his bunch will never stop trying. They will never succeed because what they are trying to kill is something symbolic and it isn't about guns and is too deeply embedded in what being American is. Guns have a mystique and so does Americanism which is a word you never hear. Somehow the two are intertwined. Lose either and the country loses the right stuff.