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Topic: Strolling around Strolen's (Read 13666 times)

Hello, new to Strolen's Citadel.I just wanted to say hello while I look around here at the Citadel. As far as my credits for gaming, I designed and compiled work for the first edition of an ezine called "Shadows of the Tower" available at RPGNow as a free download. Click HERE to check it out.I have another book called "Artifacts of Legend" coming out this week. I love to design and build stuff, mainly d20 and WotC OGL stuff. I love to collaborate with other writers. So there won't be any conflict of interest or anything I am also a Moderator at another gaming site called Barrok's Tower. Well, I look forward to hanging out here at the Citadel and meeting new people.BTW.. I play Dungeons and Dragons 1e, 2e, 3e, and 3.5. d20 Modern, Palladium system (RIFTS, TMNT, etc.), Shadowrun, Warhammer (FRPG and fantasy battles), d20 Past, Call of Cthulu, Iron Heroes (my fav low magic setting), Arcana Evolved, I love the new Ptolus book from Monte Cook, and there is plenty more.

PoisonAlchemist: Man Muro, you boost my confidence and then you just go crush it with a heartbreaking work of staggering genius.Pariah: Don't tell him things like that, if his head gets any bigger he'll float off like a weather ballon :p

Well, I know Strolen will love you, because you like Palladium.I know CaptainPenguin will like you because you like Call of CthuluMurometz Likes you because you like 1st edition.Me? I have no idea what ANY of those games actually ARE, but I like you because you can string together a sentence or two without excessive chatspeak, emoticons or glaring grammatical or spelling errors. Cudos!

The only thing that bothers me is not statting NPC's and other creatures. I am really used to statting everything I come up with. Although, this is really one of my only complaints, and other than that it is a pretty cool place.I love Palladium games, I think their rules system needs some work, but as far as plot and setting, they do an awesome job. I just think that Palladium has lost a lot of talent, their artists have travelled to some greener pastures to make more money, their current money problems are destroying them, and d20 OGL has put a strain on all other gaming.

Stats come up every so often and we have discussed ways to have stats; hide them until wanted, at the bottom of the submission, etc., and we even thought about a stat converter when the site first started so you could put in any stats and have it converted to any other game.

In the end, we opted against this extra difficulty and decided to concentrate on the idea. After all, if you can come up with a good idea, the stats will fall into place with relative ease. Then we didn't have to seperate them in game categories where the idea is lost to the system in the system. There are just too many good ideas to be holed up into a certain game system. Let the idea free...freeeeeeedooooooooooooom.

I actually think that an idea can't really show the stats, it more or less shows a concept. I believe that stats reinforce the idea that is the concept of a character. As an idea is the skin, the stats are the bones beneath. I mean you can't have a real character, be it PC or NPC, without a solid idea and concept. Just creating something, doesn't truly help, at least in my opinion. I really don't want to offend anyone, with me being new here and all. I'll just drop an example;

Tergus Kithkeras was born and raised like many githzerai, in a fortress monastery in the Plane of Limbo. Tergus Kithkeras grew into a great leader and fighter in the war against the illithids. Tergus has led many Rrakkma raiding parties; in each he destroyed many more illithids than other Rrakkma of the same size. Tergus was celebrated a hero after near a decade of successful Rrakkma.A great illithid leader, Larkt, became driven with a new goal, the downfall of Tergus Kithkeras. He would bring him down after destroying his will to fight and then he would break his mind. First Larkt set forth his plan by secretly recruiting other gith from both sides through secret channels. His first goal was to turn Tergus’s friends and allies against him by making him look like a githyanki sympathizer. He planted a githyanki child and the doorstep of his wife, knowing she would hide the child and raise it. She did and after a year Tergus actually began to see this youth as a way to mend the bridge between the gith and maybe even bring peace to their broken people. His plan backfired when Larkt had the information leaked to several githzerai that had great hatred for the githyanki. Tergus Kithkeras was tried for treason for taking in the youth, his background saved his life, and Larkt knew this would happen. When Tergus was sentenced, the child would be executed, his wife would also be executed for treason and he would be exiled.His heart broken and his life in shambles he was exiled, he was left in the underdark to die.Tergus was heart broken and shattered, at his weakest he sat in the dark waiting for some creature to come and take his life. Instead, Larkt came to him and with promises of revenge for the death of his child and wife seduced him. Tergus Kithkeras submitted to his new master and became an enemy of his own people; before it was done one more tragedy would take place. Tergus changed his name to Gith’kirak -which means One who Kills Gith in his tongue- and undertook the ritual to become a half-illithid.Gith’kirak now hunts his own kind, full of hatred for the death of his family. He has even come to discover Larkt was behind the whole thing but sees his illithid master as a savior, the one who opened his eyes to the evil of the gith, an evil more treacherous than what any illithid has ever done to him.

Armor Restriction: If wearing ANY armor or carrying a shield, you lose your Wisdom bonus to AC, fast movement and flurry of blows abilities.AC Bonus(Ex): Add +7 AC; this bonus is not lost unless you are immobilized or helpless, wearing armor, carrying a shield or carrying a medium/heavy load.Flurry of Blows(Ex): As a full attack, you may make two extra attack(s).Improved Evasion(Ex): You take half damage from magical attacks. On a successful Reflex save, you take no damage.Fast Movement(Ex): Your speed increases (limited by armor and encumberance)Still Mind(Ex): +2 to save against Enchantment spells and effects.Ki Strike(Su): Your unarmed attacks are treated as lawful, and magic weapons.Slow Fall(Ex): As long as a wall is within arm's reach, you take damage from a fall as if it were 60 feet shorter.Purity of Body(Ex): Immune to all diseases except supernatural and magical diseases.Wholeness of Body(Su): You can heal your own wounds, up to 24 points per day.Diamond Body(Su): You are immune to all poisons.Abundant Step(Su): You can slip between spaces as if using the spell dimension door once per day, as cast by a level 6 sorcerer.Inertial Armor(Sp): +4 to AC as long as the githzerai remains conscious. Treat as a 1st level spell.Tentacles(Ex): Has Improved Grab with its Tentacles. If it hits a creature its sizeor smaller with even one Tentacle, it begins a Grapple as a FreeAction that does not generate an Attack of Opportunity. If itsuccessfully gets a Hold, then it can attached the rest of itsTentacles with a single Grapple check. If all 4 Tentaclesmaintain a Hold for a Full Round, the target’s brain is extracted& it dies immediately.Mind Blast: 1/day – All targets in a 40’ Cone are Stunned for 1d4rounds (WillNeg DC = 13 + Int modifier).Telepathy can Communicate with any creature within 100’ thathas a language.Darkvision 60 feet.Psionics(Sp): 3/day – charm monster, daze, detect thoughts, feather fall, levitate, shatter, suggestion. 1/day - plane shift.Spell Resistance(Ex): 17

This posting as a character alone, doesn't do it justice at all, but leaving the stats out of it kind of feels empty. Together though, it feels much better, you can see how strong the character is, without spending a paragraph paraphrasing what he can do with his strength, you just look at the stat.

I can see what you're saying. But what if they don't play D20 System? What if they play GURPS, or FUDGE, or something weird? The stats don't mean anything then. In the end, it's easier to just put up the idea, then let each GM stat it as necessary. Less hassle than converting (particularly if you're not familiar with the system you're converting from), and you can give it the stats you feel appropriate. And not every GM relies on stats at all; despite the fact that I'm a proponent of D20, I've run many, many sessions where I just made up a number off top of my head for hit points and attack when combat was initiated. Didn't seem to cause a problem. There's no one right way to stat something, which is why we don't.

Right.. but stat's regardless of the setting can supply groundwork for a conversion, that's how I see it anyhow. I play many different games, I just prefer to stat, I am not saying my way is right or anything, I just believe that stats help, as long as there is sufficient info in place to support the stats. Just putting a bunch of stats and creating a creature doesn't really do anyone any good.

I actually think that an idea can't really show the stats, it more or less shows a concept. I believe that stats reinforce the idea that is the concept of a character. As an idea is the skin, the stats are the bones beneath. I mean you can't have a real character, be it PC or NPC, without a solid idea and concept. Just creating something, doesn't truly help, at least in my opinion. I really don't want to offend anyone, with me being new here and all. I'll just drop an example;

Don't worry about us, we don't get offended very easy and we all enjoy a good conversational disagreement if only to solidify our own philosophy on it.

I am sure I wrote it somewhere else, but when I decided on creating the site I was hardcore Palladium fantasy, second edition annoyed the heck out of me. There weren't, and still aren't, many good resources for Palladium so I used what was available. So, when I visited sites, the stats annoyed me because I had to either get rid of them or try to interpret them because they often take the place of good narrative description which can paint a clear picture. When I was searching I wasn't looking for stats, I was looking for ideas. A good plot, a fun NPC, and some cool magical weapons. I could care less about the stats because it was the information about the thing that I wanted. Once you have a concept it only takes a little effort to plug in some numbers to make it fit into whatever system you are using (back then anyway, seems the rules continue to get more and more complex).

So, in my eyes, having stats are superfluous since I won't use them. What I would like is a thorough description of the item or person which will give me a good story or idea for using in my campaign. Most of my campaigns were heavily story based anyway so the more info I can take and weave into the game the better. Once I have that then I can decide (depending on the level of the game I am running) what stats it should have, what level, what damage, powers etc. For the same reason, except for OCCs, I would have to modify all the stats anyway to fit into the current level of gameplay we were at. So, even when you would use the stats, they still need tweaking if only a bit. Rarely did I go to the level of detail in stats on an npc that I would have on a PC anyway so most of the information was unneeded. I use the bare minimum stats possible for any npc unless they were a big part of the game. Except for the back story, I already had a book of generic stats that I would always use if it came to that. That and an occassional special skill or item depending on the npc, but that was always on a notecard that was reuseable as well.

This idea philosophy was ironed out even more when I lost my RP group and started running PBeMs. Again, the ideas were all that mattered to me since I ran freeform with no stats and no die rolls. I was looking for a cool core idea I could use and then I would warp it around whatever I was playing.

Tergus Kithkeras was born and raised like many githzerai, in a fortress monastery in the Plane of Limbo. Tergus Kithkeras grew into a great leader and fighter in the war against the illithids. Tergus has led many Rrakkma raiding parties; in each he destroyed many more illithids than other Rrakkma of the same size. Tergus was celebrated a hero after near a decade of successful Rrakkma.A great illithid leader, Larkt, became driven with a new goal, the downfall of Tergus Kithkeras. He would bring him down after destroying his will to fight and then he would break his mind. First Larkt set forth his plan by secretly recruiting other gith from both sides through secret channels. His first goal was to turn Tergus’s friends and allies against him by making him look like a githyanki sympathizer. He planted a githyanki child and the doorstep of his wife, knowing she would hide the child and raise it. She did and after a year Tergus actually began to see this youth as a way to mend the bridge between the gith and maybe even bring peace to their broken people. His plan backfired when Larkt had the information leaked to several githzerai that had great hatred for the githyanki. Tergus Kithkeras was tried for treason for taking in the youth, his background saved his life, and Larkt knew this would happen. When Tergus was sentenced, the child would be executed, his wife would also be executed for treason and he would be exiled.His heart broken and his life in shambles he was exiled, he was left in the underdark to die.Tergus was heart broken and shattered, at his weakest he sat in the dark waiting for some creature to come and take his life. Instead, Larkt came to him and with promises of revenge for the death of his child and wife seduced him. Tergus Kithkeras submitted to his new master and became an enemy of his own people; before it was done one more tragedy would take place. Tergus changed his name to Gith’kirak -which means One who Kills Gith in his tongue- and undertook the ritual to become a half-illithid.Gith’kirak now hunts his own kind, full of hatred for the death of his family. He has even come to discover Larkt was behind the whole thing but sees his illithid master as a savior, the one who opened his eyes to the evil of the gith, an evil more treacherous than what any illithid has ever done to him.

There is a good storyline built in there and can be adapted to any two feuding cultures so it is very useful. That is all I really need as I almost guarantee you I wouldn't use the illithid/githyanki part as it would probably be difficult to add into whatever campaign I am in the middle of. The story around it though can be conformed easily into two other races that may benefit me immensely. If that is the case, then everything following is unneeded BUT I do want even more information about the scenerio above:-Why does Larkt want to cause his downfall?-What secret channels did he use to enlist others in his cause and why would they want their heroes downfall?-Why would the wife take in the baby? Just 'cause?-Why would the warrior think that a single baby would unite the two warring races?There are actually more things I would need the answer on top of those and not knowing them makes this scenerio hard to use, there is a good idea in there but would take a bit of work for me to answer the questions I have about it so I would probably take the core idea and start from scratch. If it was all explained then I could conform around it, otherwise I have to do the grunt work.

All these stats really don't mean anything to me because I don't play this system. I could probably use some of these as a conversion, but I would decide what role it is going to play in my game and start from scratch or use one of my templates. I don't really see anything in there that is unique and would require a special conversion.

Armor Restriction: If wearing ANY armor or carrying a shield, you lose your Wisdom bonus to AC, fast movement and flurry of blows abilities.AC Bonus(Ex): Add +7 AC; this bonus is not lost unless you are immobilized or helpless, wearing armor, carrying a shield or carrying a medium/heavy load.Flurry of Blows(Ex): As a full attack, you may make two extra attack(s).Improved Evasion(Ex): You take half damage from magical attacks. On a successful Reflex save, you take no damage.Fast Movement(Ex): Your speed increases (limited by armor and encumberance)Still Mind(Ex): +2 to save against Enchantment spells and effects.Ki Strike(Su): Your unarmed attacks are treated as lawful, and magic weapons.Slow Fall(Ex): As long as a wall is within arm's reach, you take damage from a fall as if it were 60 feet shorter.Purity of Body(Ex): Immune to all diseases except supernatural and magical diseases.Wholeness of Body(Su): You can heal your own wounds, up to 24 points per day.Diamond Body(Su): You are immune to all poisons.Abundant Step(Su): You can slip between spaces as if using the spell dimension door once per day, as cast by a level 6 sorcerer.Inertial Armor(Sp): +4 to AC as long as the githzerai remains conscious. Treat as a 1st level spell.Tentacles(Ex): Has Improved Grab with its Tentacles. If it hits a creature its sizeor smaller with even one Tentacle, it begins a Grapple as a FreeAction that does not generate an Attack of Opportunity. If itsuccessfully gets a Hold, then it can attached the rest of itsTentacles with a single Grapple check. If all 4 Tentaclesmaintain a Hold for a Full Round, the target’s brain is extracted& it dies immediately.Mind Blast: 1/day – All targets in a 40’ Cone are Stunned for 1d4rounds (WillNeg DC = 13 + Int modifier).Telepathy can Communicate with any creature within 100’ thathas a language.Darkvision 60 feet.Psionics(Sp): 3/day – charm monster, daze, detect thoughts, feather fall, levitate, shatter, suggestion. 1/day - plane shift.Spell Resistance(Ex): 17

Another good thing about being system nonspecific is all the system specific references that come out when you allow it. Most of the stuff is recognizeble but that is not always the case. If you went line by line you could sum up all these skills/powers/whatever in a paragraph without using any numbers. Anything that is important to it as a character that helps make it stand out should be described descriptively. You can get pretty much the same overview of his abilities that enhances the character through description instead of a list of abilities.

This posting as a character alone, doesn't do it justice at all, but leaving the stats out of it kind of feels empty. Together though, it feels much better, you can see how strong the character is, without spending a paragraph paraphrasing what he can do with his strength, you just look at the stat.

I think the opposite actually, all the stats leave me with a hollow feeling. I am also an avid reader so running through stats is more work than rolling through a well described character. I would rather see how strong the character is through some description actions vs. "24". The description not only tells me his strength, but also tells me how he uses it. Through the narrative I can find if he works smart, is a brute, resorts to strength first or only after other things fail. I am looking for a character concept more than I am looking for something I can throw into a game and start rolling dice. I prefer a character with depth and justified action and abilities. Instead of seeing acrobatics +12 I want a short description on how they spent time with a Jester or in a circus or trained by another that had all this. I want the why's, not just the what's. So then when they meet our PCs who have to justify all their skills (or they should, they should not just be able to pick them from the book or kit just because their level says they can) they can give the backstory on it without having to fake it and when all the history of the character comes out it is not ad hoc, it is a carefully pieced together part of the game. The fun is when all this stuff comes out and it all makes sense and intertwines with the rest of the world, the plots start coming together, the npcs start making sense, and the weapons all fit in without too much question. This is a bit more difficult to do when you rely on stats to tell your characters story and just blow over why you have these skills beyond getting enough XP to pick them.

I am not trying to convince you that this way is better, this is just the way we do it here and we have found that we like it this way better. You may not agree, and that is fine and we do understand and appreciate your point of view, trust me.

Welcome to the Contentious Companions of the Citadel, O Forger of Minds,

I haven't been around here very long, so I’m certainly not qualified to dictate anything to anyone, however, I do know what I like and what I can best use.

One problem with giving stats is that almost all of us would change them anyway. The folk that wander the halls of the citadel tend to be very creative types, many of whom have crafted detailed campaign worlds. They aren’t going to take an NPC “off the shelf”, in any case, so there’s no point in writing stats that will just distract from the main interest of the piece.

Say you detail a character, describing them with D20 3.5 stats. If someone doesn’t use that system, they are likely to overlook the character’s unusually high wisdom score unless you detail that information in the text description. If the text gives the information already, then the stat becomes redundant. Although it is very clear to me that a character described as “Str 16, Dex 12, Con 12, Int 7, Wis 16, Cha 10” is a physically strong and intuitive character with a strong will but very weak intellect, reading it is a complete drag for someone who isn’t into D&D. It’s kind of a snooze for someone that IS into the system.

Even someone who is running D&D is likely to make some changes. Some of us prefer a “High Fantasy” game, with powerful mages and numerous magic items. Some enjoy “Low Fantasy” where gutter-dwelling thieves slink through the alleys. A character statted for a game where every hero has a magic weapon, a few potions, and some other potent item by the time they’re fifth level would need a complete revamp for a game where everyone is limited to a 25 point build and only finds magic at the climax of the campaign. I've seen games where every regional leader was epic, about 20th level, and I've seen games where a sixth level sorcerer was a mighty mage indeed.

If you prefer to include stats, you are certainly free to. While the folk here prefer to avoid them, they're certainly not forbidden. I would avoid stat blocks if I were you, and just give those details that are unique or significant for the character or item.

The example that you chose to write up illustrates some of the potential problem areas that can be encountered when writing a creature based solidly in a particular set of rules: What does he look like? What is a Half-illithid? (I know, but a lot of people don't.) What is a Githyanki or a Githzerai? Additionally, none of these are creatures included in WotC's Open Game License material, so they are protected copyrights of Wizards of the Coast. WotC seems to be agreeable to reasonable use, but you should be aware that you are using ideas that they chose not to include in the OGL.

GITHZERAI!!!!!! I EFFIN LOVED GITHZERAI back in the day. They were less ostentatious and in-your-face than Githyanki, and had that whole "monk" thing going for them, but still had the freaky flesh-sacks hanging off their elbows! Yeah!

PoisonAlchemist: Man Muro, you boost my confidence and then you just go crush it with a heartbreaking work of staggering genius.Pariah: Don't tell him things like that, if his head gets any bigger he'll float off like a weather ballon :p

GITHZERAI!!!!!! I EFFIN LOVED GITHZERAI back in the day. They were less ostentatious and in-your-face than Githyanki, and had that whole "monk" thing going for them, but still had the freaky flesh-sacks hanging off their elbows! Yeah!