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F the TSA. What in the world can we bring with us - weapons, bombs, etc - that we can't accomplish with our f'ing hands?!?! SERIOUSLY!!!! TSA has never had, and will never get, my respect. SECURITY THEATER!

Why do you feel you need legal counsel? You may have a hearing for a missed trip. I guess if you feel you or ALPA cannot represent you adequately then legal counsel may be in order. By the way, I'm not sure if the company can force the employee handbook for instances where you are off duty and merely positioning yourself to your place of work. I guess that would be for lawyers and judge to answer. Good luck.

"When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic." -- Ben Franklin

I believe this has sparked me into writing up a letter to forward to my congressmen and senators to convey my disgust at the whole process. Not that they will do anything about it, but a couple thousand letters from pilots(if we can get it setup) would be a way for congress to possibly act.

It's this "illusion of security" and "security theater" that gives the flying public the confidence to get on a plane and hence we get to keep our jobs. No security system is perfect so that's not a reason to throw the whole system out, work to improve it.

I'm going to have to stick with everyone that says this was not the proper venue to fight. You are saying that they are taking away your rights. The issue is that you do not have a constitutional right to fly in or on a commercial airliner. It is a convenient commodity that we and passengers often take for granted, but it is not a right. If you don't believe in being searched then you have every right not to fly. No one is forcing you to fly, but rather you are flying by choice. Since you have made that choice you then accept the fact that you will have to undergo security screening which has been set up to protect the safety and security of citizens of the US. You may say that it is an unreasonable search which you do have a constitutional protection against, but once again you can avoid that unreasonable search by not flying. You agree to that search as soon as you go through security to get on a commercially operated airplane. You could fly GA and charter and never have to deal with TSA again. Don't confuse your explicit rights with your political viewpoints.

That is not true even in GA you may run into a TSA person. Just an FYI. There are a lot of good points here.

Originally Posted by hokiepilot

Personally, I think it took courage to do what he did. And for those that would second guess him, look at how the system is set up. I took the first flight out of ROA a few weeks ago, and like some of our smaller stations, we were permitted to bypass security. An hour later we were in a major international airport (IAD) and later at another (ORD), with full access to the terminal. So why do the MEM screeners need to feel his crotch when he opts out of being irradiated? They don't do it at every airport. Some airports touch your badge, some barely glance at it. Some airports let you bypass, many don't. Some airports automatically direct crews to the magnetometer, some try to push you through the oven. It's a joke, an illusion of security, and American's willingly fall for it. Once again, we are at the controls a short time after passing security, so why would our nail clippers or cuticle scissors represent a threat greater than our actual hands on the yoke??? Any good answers???

Why can you gain access to the secure area by bypassing at some airports and not at others? How is bypassing at a small facility different than bypassing at a large? The end result is the same, a pilot in the system.

Mike put talk into action, and that takes courage. Remember, he walked through the magnetometer without it sounding, just like many of us do all of the time, and then they still wanted to feel him up. The only reason they persisted was b/c he refused irradiation. Had they not directed him to the oven in the first place, none of this would have ensued. Mike took a stand. What have you done lately?

As I agree with most of your post here you are correct that had he not been directed to the oven he would not be subject to the additional screening when he refused, but they did and they allowed him to the alternative process in which he refused. That is the current policy in place and he refused to follow said policies, which we have been told multiple times to follow, but I agree with why is there different rules at different airports that affect airline pilots? I have my assumptions and I will leave them at that. Also it sounds like he was a commuting pilot and not a working crew member, which I have been told we are subject to the rules that passengers are subject to. That is why I say the venue may not have been right. Something has to change and at this time I do not have the answer.

This has become the price of admission for me. I had a knee replaced 2 years ago. I always alarm when I pass through. Always had to be wanded. The new measure is no more wanding. Now I get the super pat down. This includes hair, breasts, crotch, etc. Really a terrible way to start a pairing. Crew pass can't come soon enough for me.
BTW, screeners are not happy with this new procedure. Even with gloves they don't like touching these areas.

It is disgusting that this badge toting morons think that they can just push us around. I am all for the safty and security of our airports but when is enough? It is ok for rampers, catering, and CS agents to just bypass security and yet we put our asses on the line each day but we are the threats. Pilots and flight attendants are probably the last ones that are going to make a threat againsts an aircraft especially if we are working that flight. Yet the TSA can just keep taking away our dignity one pat down at a time. Honestly what type of picture does that paint to the public to see their flight crew getting a pat down from TSA? Most of the traveling public will see this and think that their pilot is a threat, this is why crew pass is needed and the moustach club running ALPA should have worked harder on this and hopefully the new leadership will make Crew Pass a top priority.

Homer Simpson: "if you don't like your job, you don't strike: you just go in every day and do it really half assed. That's the American way"

With that in mind, we have no guaranteed Constitutional right to fly, just as there is not a Constitutional right to drive. You do have a right to privacy and if you choose not to surrender some of your privacy to fly, you are free to find alternate means. You have the right to move freely about the country, but that extends only to your own two feet.

I'm not saying this to be nonsympathetic to your cause. We are continually scrutinized in ways that do nothing to increase security and it's ridiculous; I just don't believe you have a civil liberties case here.

Yeah but where does it say they we should be treated the same as passengers. They don't go through the background checks, psychological profiles training etc. I think some of you forget that we are not the same and should be screened accordingly.