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ElijahSnowFan wrote:You do realize that in quoting that, you prove my point that Marvel has done the same kinds of publicity and engagement for this series that you said they weren't as a sign of non-support, and that Bendis is right for saying, "It shouldn't be as simple as Wolverine sanctioning someone. There should be more to it than that, because we already know Wolverine would kill Hank Pym if he thought it was OK."

That's the whole concept of writing, isn't it? Taking what we already know would happen and adding layers to it to provide context and conflict and growth?

It's great that Susan Richards made a freaking choice, instead of letting Reed or Tony Stark or Captain America tell her what to do and that everything will be just fine if she does what's she's told, on their mark!

They really haven't given it the same push at all. These interviews and features are being given a lot less trumpetfare than they have in the past. There's no urgency by the websites to get these up, and both Marvel and the creative teams involved have been a lot less chipper to push these interviews on their Twitter feeds. I mean, have you seen any big rundown or conversation about Age of Ultron #8 on any front page of any comic book site? Now you're engaging in Herald level tactics by being deliberately obtuse (see, I can throw around casual insults because I disagree with you too!).

BlueStreak wrote:They really haven't given it the same push at all. These interviews and features are being given a lot less trumpetfare than they have in the past. There's no urgency by the websites to get these up, and both Marvel and the creative teams involved have been a lot less chipper to push these interviews on their Twitter feeds. I mean, have you seen any big rundown or conversation about Age of Ultron #8 on any front page of any comic book site? Now you're engaging in Herald level tactics by being deliberately obtuse (see, I can throw around casual insults because I disagree with you too!).

Good Lord, Blue! It's just Thursday! It just came out yesterday! How do you know one isn't coming?

*Sniff, sniff* "Damn it, Diana...If I'd known they would trade us in for a JT Krul-written Captain Atom and "The Savage Hawkman," I'd have let Superboy-Prime destroy all reality."

"Superman flies and is really strong...what the fuck else do you need to know?!" -- Hitler, expressing his displeasure about DC rebooting and complaints about continuity

ElijahSnowFan wrote:To say there's no character development is a joke, as well.

Susan Richards allowing Wolverine to kill Hank Pym was significant on any number of levels. The Fantastic Four has always been a concept, a unit, that has been "above the fray." Reed Richards has always been a bit of a douche, but Ben, Johnny and Sue have always had this wholesome air about them.

But you know what? When push comes to shove, when faced with the thought of losing her kids, her reality, everything that she ever knew, it was interesting to see that Susan Richards would still, initially, choose to not let Hank Pym be killed. She didn't want to allow that to happen, she wanted there to be another option, but there wasn't, and she wanted to save her family.

That makes her more human than she's been in years. She's always been the paragon of motherhood and wholesomeness. It's great for her character to actually have to struggle with a moral question. When was the last time that happened?

It wasn't push come to shove. The moment anyone helped Wolverine use the time platform, that person(s) was guilty of murder. Any struggling with it at that very moment when Wolverine sinks his claws was artificial in my eyes.

Having Sue abet murder (twice) is indeed, as you claim, character developement. However, it's bad character develeopment that just makes her a murderer.

Amoebas wrote:It wasn't push come to shove. The moment anyone helped Wolverine use the time platform, that person(s) was guilty of murder. Any struggling with it at that very moment when Wolverine sinks his claws was artificial in my eyes.

Having Sue abet murder (twice) is indeed, as you claim, character developement. However, it's bad character develeopment that just makes her a murderer.

I think you have to put it in the context that Ultron murdered her husband, her brother, and the god-father of her children, as well as many other friends, and meant that she had abandoned her children in space.

Amoebas wrote:It wasn't push come to shove. The moment anyone helped Wolverine use the time platform, that person(s) was guilty of murder. Any struggling with it at that very moment when Wolverine sinks his claws was artificial in my eyes.

Having Sue abet murder (twice) is indeed, as you claim, character developement. However, it's bad character develeopment that just makes her a murderer.

Exactly -- that means everybody who was there who let Wolverine go, since he didn't know how to operate the time platform, is culpable.

Again, we don't have to agree on whether it was good or bad development. But clearly, Monica Rambeau, Clint Barton, Peter Parker -- they were fine with Hank Pym getting sanctioned, and that's interesting. They've worked with him, been his teammates, and they let him get killed because it was better for them all.

I think Susan Richards made the choice that many people would've made, twice. Because what she left...it's all gone. Ultron won. He was always going to win, and if you want to tell me that it's ridiculous that everyone knew that effing robot was going to kill them all and they did nothing to find him and stop him, I'd agree with you.

But I'm hopeful that what Sue, Rambeau, Clint...I'm hoping that what they allowed to happen is explored in the future. Because just like AvsX has had lasting repercussions, so should this.

*Sniff, sniff* "Damn it, Diana...If I'd known they would trade us in for a JT Krul-written Captain Atom and "The Savage Hawkman," I'd have let Superboy-Prime destroy all reality."

"Superman flies and is really strong...what the fuck else do you need to know?!" -- Hitler, expressing his displeasure about DC rebooting and complaints about continuity

habitual wrote:What I don't understand is the fact that isn't using Doom's time platform supposed to prevent alternate timelines from occurring?

Why are there two Wolverines?

Hab

That is a great question -- one that is so obvious, one of two things is going to happen: Bendis is either going to explain it very clearly how you have two versions of the same character, at the same age, at once, or he'll gloss it over and be every bit deserving of the criticism that he would face.

We'll find out which, in these final two issues.

*Sniff, sniff* "Damn it, Diana...If I'd known they would trade us in for a JT Krul-written Captain Atom and "The Savage Hawkman," I'd have let Superboy-Prime destroy all reality."

"Superman flies and is really strong...what the fuck else do you need to know?!" -- Hitler, expressing his displeasure about DC rebooting and complaints about continuity

To be honest, Hab, I've had a huge problem with the very concept of All-New X-Men for that very reason -- I don't understand how the Young X-Men can be in the present, interact with all the things they have, then go back to the past at some point because that's what the timeline demands.

I'm not a big fan of time travel stories, as I've said before. But I haven't complained about it as much because I'm trying to let these creators tell the story in the way they've plotted it out.

*Sniff, sniff* "Damn it, Diana...If I'd known they would trade us in for a JT Krul-written Captain Atom and "The Savage Hawkman," I'd have let Superboy-Prime destroy all reality."

"Superman flies and is really strong...what the fuck else do you need to know?!" -- Hitler, expressing his displeasure about DC rebooting and complaints about continuity

ElijahSnowFan wrote:To be honest, Hab, I've had a huge problem with the very concept of All-New X-Men for that very reason -- I don't understand how the Young X-Men can be in the present, interact with all the things they have, then go back to the past at some point because that's what the timeline demands.

I'm not a big fan of time travel stories, as I've said before. But I haven't complained about it as much because I'm trying to let these creators tell the story in the way they've plotted it out.

I don't have an issue with it in that instance because McCoy is the one that engineered the event.

It just seems weird to me to point out that Fury had one of Doom's platforms and what's occurring is specifically what it's designed to prevent.