tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7958140996781104565.post2899325223895926663..comments2017-09-20T00:40:11.781-07:00Comments on Unqualified Reservations: Why I am not an anti-SemiteMencius Moldbughttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16472157249344139282noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7958140996781104565.post-38422777314686577062009-03-06T21:56:00.000-08:002009-03-06T21:56:00.000-08:00希望大家都會非常非常幸福~「朵朵小語‧優美的眷戀在這個世界上，最重要的一件事，就是好好愛自己。好好愛...<A HREF="http://www.concubine.com.tw/" REL="nofollow">希</A><A HREF="http://www.joney.com.tw/" REL="nofollow">望</A><A HREF="http://www.affair.com.tw/" REL="nofollow">大</A><A HREF="http://detect.com.tw/" REL="nofollow">家</A><A HREF="http://truedetect.com.tw/" REL="nofollow">都</A><A HREF="http://true2detect.com.tw/" REL="nofollow">會</A><A HREF="http://true3detect.com.tw/" REL="nofollow">非</A><A HREF="http://www.female-credit.com.tw/" REL="nofollow">常</A><A HREF="http://www.female-credit.com.tw/" REL="nofollow">非</A><A 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HREF="http://detect.com.tw/p11-1.html" REL="nofollow">自</A><A HREF="http://detect.com.tw/p1-1.html" REL="nofollow">己</A><A HREF="http://detect.com.tw/p11.html" REL="nofollow">，</A><A HREF="http://detect.com.tw/c.html" REL="nofollow">你</A><A HREF="http://detect.com.tw/d.html" REL="nofollow">才</A><A HREF="http://detect.com.tw/p10.html" REL="nofollow">能</A><A HREF="http://detect.com.tw/p12.html" REL="nofollow">體</A><A HREF="http://detect.com.tw/p13.html" REL="nofollow">會</A><A HREF="http://detect.com.tw/p5.html" REL="nofollow">所</A><A HREF="http://detect.com.tw/p7-2.html" REL="nofollow">有</A><A HREF="http://detect.com.tw/p5-2.html" REL="nofollow">美</A><A HREF="http://detect.com.tw/p5-1.html" REL="nofollow">好</A><A HREF="http://detect.com.tw/p5-3.html" REL="nofollow">的</A><A HREF="http://detect.com.tw/p5-4.html" REL="nofollow">東</A><A HREF="http://detect.com.tw/p3.html" REL="nofollow">西</A><A HREF="http://detect.com.tw/p4.html" REL="nofollow">，</A><A HREF="http://detect.com.tw/p6.html" 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HREF="http://www.affair.com.tw/e.html" REL="nofollow">保</A><A HREF="http://www.female-credit.com.tw/u1.html" REL="nofollow">持</A><A HREF="http://www.female-credit.com.tw/u2.html" REL="nofollow">孩</A><A HREF="http://www.female-credit.com.tw/u3.html" REL="nofollow">子</A><A HREF="http://www.female-credit.com.tw/u4.html" REL="nofollow">般</A><A HREF="http://www.female-credit.com.tw/u5.html" REL="nofollow">的</A><A HREF="http://www.female-credit.com.tw/u6.html" REL="nofollow">好</A><A HREF="http://www.female-credit.com.tw/u7.html" REL="nofollow">奇</A><A HREF="http://www.female-credit.com.tw/u8.html" REL="nofollow">，</A><A HREF="http://www.female-credit.com.tw/u9.html" REL="nofollow">願</A><A HREF="http://www.female-credit.com.tw/u10.html" REL="nofollow">意</A><A HREF="http://www.female-credit.com.tw/u11.html" REL="nofollow">接</A><A HREF="http://www.female-credit.com.tw/u12.html" REL="nofollow">受</A><A HREF="http://www.female-credit.com.tw/u13.html" REL="nofollow">未</A><A 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HREF="http://www.female-credit.com.tw/1-p8.html" REL="nofollow">需</A><A HREF="http://www.female-credit.com.tw/2-p1.html" REL="nofollow">要</A><A HREF="http://www.female-credit.com.tw/2-p2.html" REL="nofollow">的</A><A HREF="http://www.female-credit.com.tw/2-p3.html" REL="nofollow">行</A><A HREF="http://www.female-credit.com.tw/2-p4.html" REL="nofollow">囊</A><A HREF="http://www.female-credit.com.tw/2-p5.html" REL="nofollow">，</A><A HREF="http://www.female-credit.com.tw/2-p6.html" REL="nofollow">一</A><A HREF="http://www.female-credit.com.tw/2-p7.html" REL="nofollow">路</A><A HREF="http://www.female-credit.com.tw/2-p8.html" REL="nofollow">雲</A><A HREF="http://www.female-credit.com.tw/3-p1.html" REL="nofollow">淡</A><A HREF="http://www.female-credit.com.tw/3-p2.html" REL="nofollow">風</A><A HREF="http://www.female-credit.com.tw/3-p3.html" REL="nofollow">輕</A><A HREF="http://www.female-credit.com.tw/3-p4.html" REL="nofollow">。</A><A HREF="http://www.female-credit.com.tw/3-p5.html" 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afterlife.</I><BR/><BR/>Actually, Jews have always believed in an afterlife. In fact, recently someone wrote a whole book about the history of Jewish belief in an afterlife. The myth, still repeated today even by some Jews, probably originated with Christian detractors because we've never had a specific dogma about the afterlife that we were required to believe, the way Christians do. <BR/><BR/>I am a Jew, I believe in reincarnation, and there is plenty of historical precedent for that combination. My rabbis and the other members of my synagogue have never objected at all to this belief of mine. Plenty of rabbis believe it, now and in the past. On the other hand, a Christian acquaintance of mine, who had been exercising all his self-control not to invite me to accept Jesus, stopped speaking to me altogether when he found out that I believed in reincarnation.<BR/><BR/>If there were no Jewish afterlife, there would be no reason for us to say kaddish; we do that to lighten the deceased's suffering in Sheol (often translated as Hell, but more like Purgatory).American Monarchisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17035653140290389242noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7958140996781104565.post-8768359815127122732007-11-28T06:48:00.000-08:002007-11-28T06:48:00.000-08:00Here we have a discussion of a "grand diplomatic d...Here we have a discussion of a "grand diplomatic design to reverse the expulsion of 1290", based on an argument that the return of the Jews to England was the last precondition to the return of the Messiah:<BR/><BR/>http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0065-6798(1978)45%3C187%3AFMTRMB%3E2.0.CO%3B2-Zben tillmannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7958140996781104565.post-4813081963395580132007-11-28T06:36:00.000-08:002007-11-28T06:36:00.000-08:00We have what I believe is a false positive on the ...<I>We have what I believe is a false positive on the morphological test. The problem is that not only does Christianity have ancient Jewish roots, but the Puritans of Cromwell's era for some reason developed an Old Testament fetish and decided they were Israelites, which is why boys are still named "Jacob" or "Ezra."<BR/><BR/>What was this reason? Well, Anon argues that this reflects actual Jewish influence. He points to the fact that Cromwell rescinded the expulsion of Jews from England. But it is a little difficult to figure out how this could possibly have been the result of Jewish scheming. How can you scheme when you're not there?</I><BR/><BR/>They were right next door in the Netherlands, and at that time travel by sea was faster than travel by land, with the result that East Anglia was (for purposes of the movement of people and ideas) closer to the Netherlands than it was to London.<BR/><BR/>Heinrich Graetz, himself Jewish, discusses the "Jewish scheming" that you have ruled out. <BR/><BR/>http://www.saltshakers.com/lm/GraetzD.rtfben tillmannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7958140996781104565.post-51983158412851986142007-09-12T08:19:00.000-07:002007-09-12T08:19:00.000-07:00I'm sure the effect you describe is real. But what...<I>I'm sure the effect you describe is real. But what is its magnitude? Is it zero? I wouldn't say it's zero. I don't think anyone could say it's zero. Certainly Boas, Montagu, etc, were members of the tribe, and so on.</I><BR/><BR/><I>But Alger Hiss was not. Nor was John Reed. Nor was Lord Keynes, Harry Dexter White, Harry Hopkins, or Irving Fisher</I><BR/><BR/>Harry Dexter White was born of Lithuanian Jewish parents: <BR/>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Dexter_White<BR/><BR/>Why include John Reed? He was just a journalist/propagandist who wrote a handful of stupid books. Actually I only read <I>Ten Days</I>, but I'm assuming the others are much the same sort of crap.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7958140996781104565.post-15557391702408469732007-06-29T16:32:00.000-07:002007-06-29T16:32:00.000-07:00here are some links. It appears it's more a matte...here are some links. It appears it's more a matter of bypassing Asians in favor of less-qualified black and "Hispanic" applicants than a matter of outright quotas, though the universities have never been too forthright about having explicit quotas in place, either. Whatever the reason, though they are overrepresented by proportion of the population, Asian Americans are underrepresented at elite universities based on performance. <BR/><BR/>http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/07/education/edlife/07asian.html?ex=1325826000&en=03217915e15e2971&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss<BR/><BR/>http://www.heritage.org/Research/PoliticalPhilosophy/HL216.cfm<BR/><BR/>Google pulls up many thousands of hits on the subject.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7958140996781104565.post-44572140180908858732007-06-29T00:29:00.000-07:002007-06-29T00:29:00.000-07:00tggp,Doh! I was wrong, anyway - Lassalle (two s'...tggp,<BR/><BR/>Doh! I was wrong, anyway - <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferdinand_Lassalle" REL="nofollow">Lassalle </A> (two s'es) <I>was</I> Jewish. Originally Lassallezhidsky, I'm sure. Those tricky Jews.Mencius Moldbughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16472157249344139282noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7958140996781104565.post-67703294422562033742007-06-28T23:45:00.000-07:002007-06-28T23:45:00.000-07:00Whoops, forgot to post La Griffe's piece on the re...Whoops, forgot to post La Griffe's piece on the representation of ashkenazi jews at the highest levels of IQ. It is here: http://www.lagriffedulion.f2s.com/ashkenaz.htmtggpnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7958140996781104565.post-42006911608201344322007-06-28T23:44:00.000-07:002007-06-28T23:44:00.000-07:00Anonymous: You are right. I exaggerated how Jewish...Anonymous: You are right. I exaggerated how Jewish universities would be considering how small the proportion of the population is jewish. Asians make a better example. I didn't know there were quotas explicitly against asians anywhere in the United States. I thought it was just the case that extra points go to blacks and hispanics, and that the people who benefited most from meritocracy are asians and jews. If you could provide some links on asian quotas, I'd be thankful.<BR/><BR/>Thanks to Steve Sailer, I'm not a fan of Malcolm Gladwell. Nevertheless, <A HREF="http://www.gladwell.com/2005/2005_10_10_a_admissions.html" REL="nofollow">this essay</A> is pertinent. It points out that rather academically meritocratic policies had resulted in about 20% of harvard students being jewish. As you mentioned, they initially responded with quotas, but importantly those were not all that popular with faculty either and so the faculty instead redefined "merit" so as to exclude jews in other ways. A quote: "By 1933, the end of Lowell's term, the percentage of Jews at Harvard was back down to fifteen per cent. If this new admissions system seems familiar, that's because it is essentially the same system that the Ivy League uses to this day. According to Karabel, Harvard, Yale, and Princeton didn't abandon the elevation of character once the Jewish crisis passed. They institutionalized it." Things like athletics, alumni connections, extracurricular activities and personal essays are often seen as perfectly legitimate (and from the standpoint of receiving donations they very well may be) for schools, but their prominence arose from the effort to exclude unpopular but smart students. These, of course, also apply to asians today as do any other policies that prioritize something other than academic performance. La Griffe du Lion gives the numbers on how different an IQ-meritocracy would be from the status quo <A HREF="http://www.lagriffedulion.f2s.com/robinhood.htm" REL="nofollow">here</A> and how over-represented ashkenazi jews are at the tail-end of high IQ here (he even mentions Kevin Macdonald's theories at the beginning).tggpnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7958140996781104565.post-11033675675695107692007-06-28T18:52:00.000-07:002007-06-28T18:52:00.000-07:00The universities, which Mencius and others have id...<I>The universities, which Mencius and others have identified as a major leg of the Polygon, would be FAR more jewish if they were truly meritocratic and did not discriminate against jews on the basis of race (since jews are white, although sephardics and mizrahi might qualify for some benefits but they are almost negligible in the U.S).</I><BR/>The universities are part of the "polygon" and gatekeepers to the polygon as well. One is well on his way to a position in the establishment with a degree from Harvard, Georgetown, or Yale. <BR/><BR/>Anyway, how much more Jewish are the elite universities supposed to be? Aren't the Ivies and similarly-esteemed schools already something like 20-30% Jewish? Jews only make up 2% of the US population, and a smaller portion of the college-age population. I know there are quotas limiting Asians in California universities, but I don't think there's been a quota limiting Jewish admission anywhere since the 1950s when antisemitism began to lose respectability. Besides, Asians in California are 12% of the population, with what we might delicately refer to as underperforming groups making up a plurality if not a majority of the rest of the college-age population. I don't think Jews are so proportionally numerous anywhere outside of, perhaps, New York City. <BR/><BR/>Back on the subject, even if I grant that the secular Jewish program is essentially the same as "ultracalvinism," it occurs to me that Jews, by having a colorable, if not, in the American context, particularly plausible, claim of victimization (grandpa had to go to CUNY because he was kept out of Yale isn't particularly heart-rending), have a degree of protection from criticism as they advance an anti-traditionalist agenda that is not posessed by members of the groups constructed as hegemonic. They can, and frequently do, shout antisemitism, which is a very effective (though not honorable) rejoinder.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7958140996781104565.post-72081383940688781262007-06-28T17:09:00.000-07:002007-06-28T17:09:00.000-07:00Lassalle was notWho? I checked for people named La...<I>Lassalle was not</I><BR/>Who? I checked for people named Lasalle at Wikipedia, and none leapt out as comparable to me.tggpnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7958140996781104565.post-26618253275895358172007-06-28T00:01:00.000-07:002007-06-28T00:01:00.000-07:00anon2,Thanks for your comments. In general, I agr...anon2,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for your comments. In general, I agree with tggp's answer, but I would add a couple of points.<BR/><BR/>I agree completely that the taboo against anti-Semitism makes no sense. Not least because there are so few anti-Semites around to worry about. But we have all sorts of taboos - for example, it is just as taboo to attack black people. This does not indicate deep African influence in the corridors of power. The fact that the taboo is irrational does not demonstrate causality. Yes, it clearly serves the interests of Jews, but the same can be said for the Africans above.<BR/><BR/>Also, I assume you are familiar with the work of Cochran and Harpending on Ashkenazi intelligence. In a society ruled by a cognitive elite, this is a factor that can give you very significant false positives. <BR/><BR/>Freud and Marx are excellent examples. Neither - especially not the former - would be at all out of place if their background was Christian. Freud was Jewish, Jung was not. Marx was Jewish, Lassalle was not. The difference simply does not leap out at me.<BR/><BR/>Your mileage, of course, may vary.Mencius Moldbughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16472157249344139282noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7958140996781104565.post-13807905723857801742007-06-27T23:53:00.000-07:002007-06-27T23:53:00.000-07:00tggp,Thanks for that Counterpunch link. I am alwa...tggp,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for that Counterpunch link. I am always tickled to see the occasional spots of reason that emerge from this source.Mencius Moldbughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16472157249344139282noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7958140996781104565.post-36496936615231614772007-06-27T23:38:00.000-07:002007-06-27T23:38:00.000-07:00anon2: I guess I'm one of those "judeophiles". I s...anon2: I guess I'm one of those "judeophiles". I suppose it's an extension of my acknowledged anglophilia.<BR/><BR/>Why is Christianity treated differently from Judaism? For one think, as you noted, Christianity is just a religious doctrine, whereas judaism can be an ethnic/racial thing. For another thing, until recently the jews have not had their own country and have frequently been attacked because they are jews. I don't know how many Christians have attacked in recent centuries because of their Christianity (I'm sure it is greater than zero) but I am confident that it is fewer than the number of jews. Nobody would be worried if I started making derogatory remarks about people with green eyes because there is no precedent of green-eye hatred. There is one for violent anti-semitism. I do agree with you that the "anti-semitism" card is thrown too often to silence debate. Lawrence Auster in particular seems prone to it.<BR/><BR/><I>our supposedly libertarian Moldbug</I><BR/>He has never claimed to be a libertarian. Just as one can admire the work of Franz Oppenheimer (as Murray Rothbard did) without being a socialist, one can be influenced by libertarian ideas without being a libertarian. Mencius describes himself as a "formalist" and a major purpose of this blog is to explain formalism.<BR/><BR/>I take a rather dim view of Freudianism (like Karl Popper I think it is pseudo-science and like Thomas Szasz I think the analogies of "mental health" to physical health have mostly caused confusion), but I do not think it is inherently statist. If you go to mises.org you can even find <A HREF="http://blog.mises.org/archives/004145.asp" REL="nofollow">those</A> who want to rehabilitate Freud for libertarians. Libertarians still like to quote Freud's analysis ("attack" might be a better word) of Woodrow Wilson.<BR/><BR/><I>many have commented on the influences of the Talmud, the book of Isaiah, and many other direct Jewish sources on Marx, the influence of the Kaballah on Freud, and so on.</I><BR/>I do agree with you that judaism was an important influence on Freud and Strauss, even if neither was all that religious. I do not know if the same could be said of Marx. He was raised as a Protestant and always spoke of jews in the third person without considering himself one (and has been considered by many to have been an anti-semite). It might be said that he was racially jewish but not ethnically (I suppose that might be stretching it, but you get the idea). If you can point to some reputable sources (perhaps pre-Holocaust ones when crying "anti-semitism" could not shut down discussion) showing the link between judaism and marxism, I'd like to read them.<BR/><BR/><I>Jews who are completely secular or "Protestantized" still exhibit strong ethnic loyalties. They still live in fear of "anti-Semitism" and use the Taboo as a way to stifle criticism of their fellow ethnics.</I><BR/>I agree with you on their oversensitivity to anti-semitism (this is the United States for goodness sake, the peasants have had plenty of pitchforks and guns since the beginning and if they were ever going to execute a pogrom they'd have done so by now), but not on their strong ethnic loyalties. The universities, which Mencius and others have identified as a major leg of the Polygon, would be FAR more jewish if they were truly meritocratic and did not discriminate against jews on the basis of race (since jews are white, although sephardics and mizrahi might qualify for some benefits but they are almost negligible in the U.S). I've met Tim Wise in person, and he's not using anti-racism as a stick to beat white christian america. He really has the most full-blown kind of white guilt and is determined to make sure even ethnic whites (explicitly including jews like himself) who identify themselves in opposition to nativism/racism see themselves as beneficiaries of "white privilege" and internally racist.<BR/><BR/><I>The biggest example is Christianity, which allowed Gentiles to gain wisdom from the Old Testament</I><BR/>What wisdom is in the Old Testament? When I was younger and a believer I much preferred the Old to the New because all the good stories were in there, while in the latter there was a lot of preaching that qualify as "wisdom".<BR/><BR/><I>without becoming dependent on the Jewish priesthood.</I><BR/>The Sadducees (priests) are long gone. The Pharisees and their descendants (rabbis) have dominated judaism after the destruction of the second temple.<BR/><BR/>I believe I linked to this before, but this is probably one of the most important threads in which to link to it. Anyone talking about "the jews", their behavior and place in society throughout modern history should read Thomas Sowell's "Are Jews Generic", which I have put into a word file and hosted <A HREF="http://putstuff.putfile.com/91457/5821522" REL="nofollow">here</A>.tggpnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7958140996781104565.post-63708143928656070662007-06-27T14:42:00.000-07:002007-06-27T14:42:00.000-07:00The trouble with Moldbug's proposal to call anythi...The trouble with Moldbug's proposal to call anything critical of Jews or Jewish ideas "anti-Semitic" is that it is well known phrase used to describe extremely taboo behavior. Try running "sed" on Moldbug's anti-Christian rants. s/Christian/Jew/, et cetera. You will get something that we are taught to believe is grotesque and vile anti-Semitism, something that the planet has not seen since Joseph Goebells. As Moldbug demonstrates with his free speech, there is no corresponding taboo about bashing Christians or ideas derived from Christianity.<BR/><BR/>The mass media, which is still very influential, considers such behavior with respect to Jews to be extremely taboo. Thus Mel Gibson exhibted a very small amount "anti-Semitic" behavior when drunk and was raked over the coals in the media until he apologized. "Anti-Semitic" people are supposed to be very evil and very creepy, like those villains-beyond-the-pale in Hollywood movies who wear swastikias and throw Jews into the ovens. So calling anybody who criticizes Jews or Judaism or Jewish ideas as such as "anti-Semitic" is a wonderful way to insulate your favorite people or ideas from criticism, if you are a Jew or Judeophile.<BR/><BR/>There are millions of paranoid Jews and Judeophiles who have seen too many of their own movies and dread the "anti-Semites" under every rug, and there are millions more who are happy to use accusations of anti-Semitism to stifle any criticism of Israel and Jewish ethnic nepotism.<BR/><BR/>I agree with the "anti-Semitic" commentator that the lack of mention, or brushing off in a mere sentence as merely derivative, of Freudianism, Marxism, and other highly influential statist beliefs of heavily Jewish origin, in an otherwise quite well researched survey of religious influence on statist beliefs, by our supposedly libertarian Moldbug is interesting and disturbing. Moldbug is living proof of MacDonald's thesis. MacDonald might be interested in a data point that suggests this genetic trait is paternal, despite the matrilinearity of Jewish religion.<BR/><BR/>I admit that it is hard to trace the lines of cultural influence, since there has been much back-and-forth between Christianity and Judaism and the secular ideas of the West for a very long time, but many have commented on the influences of the Talmud, the book of Isaiah, and many other direct Jewish sources on Marx, the influence of the Kaballah on Freud, and so on. <BR/><BR/>Furthermore, MacDonald's theory is mainly one of sociobiology, not cultural influence. Jews who are completely secular or "Protestantized" still exhibit strong ethnic loyalties. They still live in fear of "anti-Semitism" and use the Taboo as a way to stifle criticism of their fellow ethnics. "Jewish" conveniently refers to a culture, a religion, or a race, depending on how effective the definition is in debate. Watch the meaning move as the debate moves. They still bash ideas that provide independence from Judaism. The biggest example is Christianity, which allowed Gentiles to gain wisdom from the Old Testament without becoming dependent on the Jewish priesthood. There have been many efforts, including Freud, Marx, and much of the modern mass media, to reestablish this Jewish priesthood over non-Jews in moral and political affairs. To ignore this is to be ignorant of both religious history and of how the twentieth century happened.anon2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7958140996781104565.post-72673211801799761652007-06-27T02:19:00.000-07:002007-06-27T02:19:00.000-07:00I agree with you on Iraq and oil. It's a wonder th...I agree with you on Iraq and oil. It's a wonder that something as sensible as <A HREF="http://www.counterpunch.org/neumann06242005.html" REL="nofollow">this</A> counterpunch article is echoed nowhere else I know of, other than in my own head.TGGPnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7958140996781104565.post-57661478789053988112007-06-26T22:26:00.000-07:002007-06-26T22:26:00.000-07:00anonymous,Your feeling of delicacy is exactly the ...anonymous,<BR/><BR/>Your feeling of delicacy is exactly the right attitude. It is this and only this that makes freethinking such delicious sport. We may fail, but we are climbing real rocks here, not gym walls, and there is no net.<BR/><BR/>I'm sure the effect you describe is real. But what is its magnitude? Is it zero? I wouldn't say it's zero. I don't think anyone could say it's zero. Certainly Boas, Montagu, etc, were members of the tribe, and so on.<BR/><BR/>But Alger Hiss was not. Nor was John Reed. Nor was Lord Keynes, Harry Dexter White, Harry Hopkins, or Irving Fisher.<BR/><BR/>If you go back to that TIME "American Malvern" article, I think you see pretty clearly the roots of the postwar consensus. And there are no Jews in sight.<BR/><BR/>Remember that even the Sulzbergers of the Times played down the Holocaust during the war. It was not just the WASPs at State. Just as Bush goes to great lengths to avoid being seen as fighting a war for oil, the predecessors of the Polygon did the same to avoid being seen as fighting a war for Jews.<BR/><BR/>This tells some people that Bush is actually fighting a war for oil, but I am not one of them. I think it shows sensitivity to a charge that is basically false, but believed by many. (If WWII had been a war for Jews, it might actually have saved some Jews. If Iraq had been a war for oil, gas wouldn't be $3.50 a gallon.)<BR/><BR/>I think the simplest explanation for the deification of the Holocaust, over for example the Ukrainian genocide, is just that the Holocaust is very useful. The Polygon has a thousand different ways of comparing its enemies to Nazis. That it relies increasingly on these weapons is no surprise.<BR/><BR/>Look at the concern shown by Civil War Republicans, especially those from the negrophobic Midwest, for blacks. What a river of crocodile tears! For most who supported it, antislavery was simply useful. Many, including Lincoln, said quite explicitly that they had no use for blacks. But (besides their "free labor" ideology) they still waxed moral on the subject. <BR/><BR/>Obviously it is impossible that the "Black Republicans" were in any way culturally influenced by African-Americans. But if you didn't know it was impossible, if you only saw their actions, you might believe the proposition. I think the idea that the merger with Reform Judaism seriously influenced Protestant Brahmin culture is in the same general category as this, although the proposition is much, much more plausible.Mencius Moldbughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16472157249344139282noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7958140996781104565.post-519871810450538602007-06-26T18:45:00.000-07:002007-06-26T18:45:00.000-07:00It's difficult to approach this topic with the req...It's difficult to approach this topic with the requisite delicacy. Perhaps it's impossible, but I will try, and plead my innocence of antisemitism.<BR/><BR/>It seems that you want to have it both ways. By this I mean that you say that a large number of people who disavow Christianity are really crypto-Christians, while those who proclaim, if not their Judaism, their Jewishness (and the secular left has been full of people just like this for decades) , are not meaningfully Jewish, but are rather entirely assimilated puppets of a parasitic post/Christian ideology. This is unpersuasive. Yes, the Jewish members of the élite have accepted the pre-existing unitarianism of the Protestant élite - they were already monotheists who didn't believe in the divinity of Jesus, so it was perhaps no great leap - but to say that they have assimilated is to imply that they retain no distinctiveness in outlook, affiliation, or marriage patterns. Like, say, Dutch-Americans. The intricacies of theology aside, the self-identification of Jews as Jews and as victims of persecution, coupled with their preeminence in the chattering classes, means that their perspective is enormously influential. Perhaps it doesn't matter, yet I find it hard to believe that, were the chattering classes one-third Dutch rather than one-third Jewish, the general emphasis since the 1970s of American culture and politics on pluralism and multiculturalism, and the specific emphasis on the Holocaust (to the exclusion of crimes that didn't involve members of highly influential groups in America like Stalin's, Mao's, or Pol Pot's), and on the Holocaust as specifically a crime against Jews, would be absent. This emphasis has real effects, for instance in the way that one refers to one's opponents as fascists, rather than communists, or the way that each new crisis is viewed through the lens of Munich. I emphasise that one can hardly fault American Jews, many of whom lost relatives to the Nazis, for being "hung up" as it were on the people who tried to wipe them out. I surely don't. But it is blindness for the rest of us to ignore that that had an effect on the way they and their descendants viewed the world, especially when they tend to make no secret of it. Likewise, it is mistaken to think that they got this from the post-Protestant establishment, the same one that many Jewish supporters of greater immigration are only too eager to remind us kept many of their ancestors from immigrating to escape Hitler. <BR/><BR/>Of course, I could be wrong. I am open to, even eager for, persuasion. It would help to wash away the icky feeling I get from partially agreeing with MacDonald and his loonier exponents.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7958140996781104565.post-24949844702274473692007-06-25T23:32:00.000-07:002007-06-25T23:32:00.000-07:00michael -Julius Streicher and Henry Fielding! Now...michael -<BR/><BR/>Julius Streicher and Henry Fielding! Now there's a separated-at-birth pair.<BR/><BR/>The point that, if the attitudes of America's ACLU-loving Jews are really Hebraic in origin, you would see them shared in other Jewish communities, is an excellent one as usual. <BR/><BR/>There are Jews in the US who stick together and work for the tribe: Lubavitchers and other Hasidim. They are about as politically and culturally influential as Samoans.Mencius Moldbughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16472157249344139282noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7958140996781104565.post-84137684872688353222007-06-25T10:29:00.000-07:002007-06-25T10:29:00.000-07:00I'll try to work from the circunference to the cen...I'll try to work from the circunference to the center on this, beginning with the supposed "fact" of Cromwell's rescission of the expulsion of Jews from England. It is true that he contemplated it, but Jews did not actually return to England until the reign of Charles II, a crypto-Catholic. The Jewish community of Amsterdam had supported the Restoration with gifts and loans. <BR/><BR/>Charles welcomed Jews without seeking to convert them to Christianity (as Cromwell had wished to do), and granted them exemption from laws requiring conformity with the Church of England. His successor, James II/VII, who is not usually portrayed as a supporter of religious liberty, reiterated Charles II's endenization of the Jews and in 1685 gave them "what amounted to a Declaration of Indulgence" (D. Katz, "Jews in History," 149-50). James's daughter, the princess (later queen) Anne visited the Bevis Marks synagogue during Passover in 1681, and was afterward entertained at "the Jewes house." <BR/><BR/>The perception of Jewish loyalty to the house of Stuart persisted long after the accession of the house of Hanover. One Whig pamphleteer equated the disloyalty of Jacobites with the perfidy of Jews:<BR/><BR/>"And as there is so great an Analogy between the Jews and the Jacobites, so hath their been the same likeness between their Kings...<BR/><BR/>"... it is the unhappy Fate of both these Peple, who have been alike deprived of their own divinely constituted Kings, to live under governments which they hold to be damnable and diabolical, and no Allegiance nor Submission to be due to them" But, on the contrary are daily hoping and looking for their destruction."<BR/><BR/>This Julius Streicher avant la lettre was none other than the genial Henry Fielding, better known as the author of "Tom Jones."<BR/><BR/>So, what do these historical minutiæ have to do with the supposed influence of Jews in culture and politics today? The answer, I suggest, is that many who comment on such matters look only at the views and attitudes of the American Jewish community, which it has been remarked enjoys the incomes of WASPs and displays the voting patterns of Hispanics. It ought to be explored to what extent this is a product of its peculiar experience both in its principal countries of origin and in the early days of its presence on American shores.<BR/><BR/>I have never seen a study of the views and attitudes of the Jewish community in Britain, but strongly suspect that they differ markedly from those of American Jews. Jews in Britain have never been numerous, and have been a prosperously middle-class community since the Restoration. The founding stock was Sephardic (e.g., the family of Disraeli) and this was later supplemented by bourgeois German Jewish stock (e.g., the Rothschilds, Reuters, and even the Marxes). <BR/><BR/>Somehow it does not surprise me, given the historic Jacobite/Tory associations of British Jewry, that the late chief rabbi of Great Britain, Immanuel Lord Jakobovits, was a Tory peer and a great friend of Margaret Thatcher's. His views on such matters as abortion and homosexuality would have pleased the late Jerry Falwell. Lady Thatcher was supposed to have said that it was a pity she could not make Lord Jakobovits archbishop of Canterbury.<BR/><BR/>I suggest that the characteristic cultural leftism of many American Jews (e.g. Abe Foxman of the ADL or many Jewish media/entertainment figures) represents a combination of residual attitudes brought by ancestors from eastern Europe (see Yuri Slezkine's "The Jewish Century" for a good account of their origin) and American secular progressivism of the sort Mencius has called "ultracalvinist." It is not, in other words, intrinsically or peculiarly Jewish in any theological sense.Michaelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7958140996781104565.post-49328693479001377592007-06-24T21:22:00.000-07:002007-06-24T21:22:00.000-07:00tggp - I agree with everything you say.steve -Inte...tggp - <BR/><BR/>I agree with everything you say.<BR/><BR/>steve -<BR/><BR/>Interesting comment about the Brooklyn Jews. My father is actually from this general area, and he notes the integration of Jewish and Italian cultural tropes, at least as of 50 years ago. But I had no idea this survived.<BR/><BR/>My problem with "group adaptive" strategies is that I really can't see how such a thing would be defined. I can see adaptive selection in DNA and in "memes," but we are not talking about reproduction here, nor about conversion of non-Jews to Judaism or vice versa.<BR/><BR/>Perhaps there is a small amount of <I>asabiya</I> in the approach of conforming to Protestant universalism, but since assimilation works so well on an individual basis...Mencius Moldbughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16472157249344139282noreply@blogger.com