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If I finally mange to slip out of my body I usually end up in the RTZ, soon after that I usually walk thru some door or something and end up in what I believe to be FoC 2 (referring to the phasing model by Frank) I usually can't notice any difference between this and my LD's.

What do I need to do to reach FoC 3 or even FoC 4? I really would love to visit this "places" but I have no clue how to go there?!

(I apologize if this question has already been answered)

Then there is something else that bothers me........................

Last time I had a AP I decided to fly into the sky, to see where this will lead me. Soon after I take off a strong wind captured me and pulled me up into the sky, after a short travel I found myself at a utterly strange setting.It was a very strange little building with a small room inside. I soon found myself inside the room. the room was very small and had no openings to escape no water inside just a dried out sink, there was a huge boiler above the room the made a terrible noise. I realized that this room would lead it's inmate to a terrible death, cause he would be in able to sleep nor drink! (BTW: I hate boilers, I cant sleep when any boiler noise is around......) the scene touched me on a very emotional basis.

After I short while inside the room I couldn't endure the atmosphere and switched (do not really know how!) to a nice forest (very LD like)

Any thoughts to this experience appreciated

Cheers Tom

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" In order to arrive at a place you do not know you must go by a way you do not know "

What you are doing is transitioning from (phasing model) Focus 1 to Focus 2 of consciousness. The doorway (or something) that you objectively perceive is an objective representation of the underlying subjective shift in area of consciousness. Always bear in mind that it is possible to shift your perception in consciousness and to not actually change your area of consciousness. I keep stressing this point to people because this alone has caused an infinite number of difficulties in the interpreting of experiences for thousands of years, lol.

Each area or focus of attention can usually be identified by the sorts of actions that are being objectively perceived. Focus 2 is where most people do their dreaming. You say that once you have transitioned your experience is very lucid-dream like. Great, so this confirms your focus of attention is Focus 2 of consciousness.

So knowing where you are at in the general scheme of things you want to then make another transition. What you need to find, if you can, is the 3D blackness, or the Void as mystics tend to call it. This is the “border” between Focus 2 and Focus 3 of consciousness. You should be able to “see through” your dreamscape and intertwined with it will be a kind of aperture. Remember, the Focus areas are not places. When you mentioned this word, you put it in double quotes so it looks like you realise this already. But I’m stressing it again here for the benefit of anyone who hasn’t yet picked this up.

They are not places, they are focuses of attention. Not only that, these primary areas or focuses of attention are heavily intertwined with each other. So when you are “in” one area you are actually “in” all the areas at the same time. How can this be? Well, when formulating their models in the past, mystics have thought of different “layers” that are “separated” by “vibrating” at a different “frequency”. You can use this construct if you want to. It’s not strictly correct but as a model, in itself, it’s not too bad. The BIG problem, however, is that mystics also tend to wrap the whole thing up with all manner of other rather whacky constructs such as the notions of progressively “higher” levels with a requisite degree of “spiritual enlightenment” necessary for each. And so the model descends into the realms of fictional fantasy.

We now know that what “separates” the 4 primary areas of consciousness is not a frequency. What “separates” them is their Phase Relationship to each other. This is where the Phasing Model gets its name, of course.

So you need to “detune” your focus of attention from Focus 2. In a way, it’s like looking at one of those subliminal pictures that were all the rage a number of years ago. The ones where you apply a soft focus and the picture comes into view. Take the same idea and do this within Focus 2. What we are creating, in effect, is a highly controlled overlay experience. As you do this, you should start to see, like, slats with a blackness inbetween them. Imagine a large vertical Venetian blind that was in front of an identical Venetian blind. Each blind had a large picture painted over the slats. Imagine this picture being representative of you objectively viewing a focus area or focus of attention. Now fully close both blinds.

So now, you can see the whole picture of blind one and nothing of the picture painted on blind two behind it. Imagine the picture you can see now as your current dreamscape, i.e. Focus 2. Imagine the picture painted over the slats of the blind behind as Focus 3. Now slowly open the first blind and turn the slats through 45 degrees. At which point you can still see the picture but it’s broken up. Now the picture is interspersed with the picture on the slats of the blind behind it. The act of opening the blind is like “detuning” your focus of attention. This is what I mean when I say you should start to see “slats” with a blackness between them. You can still see your dreamscape but it is interspersed with the 3D-Blackness, which is the “border” between Focus 2 and Focus 3 of consciousness.

If you were to open the imaginary blind so the thin edge of each slat is now directly facing you, you would not be able to see the initial picture at all now. All you would see is the picture painted on the second blind, which takes up your full focus of attention.

Note: when this happens you don’t actually “travel” anywhere. You can if you want to. You can start “flying” around all over the place if you want to. But doing that just gets in the way of any kind of serious work. Now and again, it’s good to have a fly around. However, if you want to start making good inroads you must resist the urge to play around within Focus 2.

So “detune” your focus and when you see the slat-effect appear, keep your attention focused on the blackness between the slats. The slats should seem to turn wider open to the point where your previous dreamscape will fall away entirely. Now you will be standing on what feels like a precipice. It will feel like that “behind you” is where you have just “come from” and before you is the infamous Void, the bane of many a mystic, lol. But this is just the 3D-Blackness at Focus 21 of the Monroe model.

Okay, so now take a deep breath and mentally “step into” the blackness and just float around for a bit.

I want to mention here that you may miss this 3D Blackness stage entirely and transition to Focus 3 directly. This is what I do now. In which case when you see the slat-effect, interspersed between the slats of your dreamscape will be another scene rather than just blackness. So concentrate or focus on that scene and your dreamscape with fall away entirely and you’ll be within completely different circumstances. Yet you won’t have moved as much as a millimetre!This can freak some people out so that’s why I advise you to plumb for the 3D Blackness at the “border” first, as it’s a familiar milepost that will give you the confidence to make the full transition.

The other thing you need to watch with a direct transition from this point is you may create a direct transition experience within Focus 2. In which case, you will think you have transitioned but you will still actually be within Focus 2. This can happen because you are within a highly fluid environment where thought equals action. Remember, it is perfectly possible to shift your perception in consciousness and not actually change your area of consciousness.

However, once you have a little experience of Focus 3 there is no way you could be fooled by your own creation of your ideas of Focus 3. But as a beginner, without an objective knowing of this area, you could possibly be led astray. The 3D-Blackness, however, is unmistakeable. You’ll know it when you get there as it’s a pretty awesome experience the first few times. The novelty does wear off though.

Now, assuming you are floating in the blackness. Think of making the transition to Focus 3. Make it a concentrated thought and hold that focus. As you do so, some change should take place. What you are looking for is some kind of portal to appear in the blackness. This could take many forms. With me, before I started making direct transitions, I’d typically get a bright point of light that kept getting closer, or I would “head towards” it. Then I’d find myself “travelling” down a narrow tunnel and I would emerge into F3. Anyhow, the portal you create could take any form, as each individual creates whatever objective representation of the underlying subjective action they feel is necessary. It’s not actually necessary at all. As I say, you can simply transition directly, but this is the more traditional Monroe/Moen-school way. And is the way I used to do it until, one day, I tried a direct transition and it worked. So that’s what I do now.

So whatever comes about in the blackness simply step through it, or travel down it, all in a manner of speaking, of course, as you are not actually travelling anywhere. What you are experiencing is an objective translation of the underlying subjective change in area of consciousness. If you directly transition from the slat-effect then you don’t get any of the typical 3D-Blackness portals and things like that. But do it whichever way you feel comfortable.

Later on, I would practice directly transitioning because that’s the key to reaching Focus 4.

As regards your boiler scene: whatever people “hate” or otherwise feel strongly about, they build a little “shrine” in F2oC that holds an objective representation of that hate, or severe dislike, or whatever it is they feel strongly about. It sounds from what you say that you offered yourself an objective knowing of your little boiler-shrine that you’ve built. :)

this is a topic that I have become interested in recently. I had troubles breaking down the barriers from f1 to f2, but now that i have, I have had obes the past 4 days. Now it has occurred to me that I need to start preparing to go beyond f2. Thanks for the advice frank, but I was wondering what tell tale differences there are between f2 and f3. Something I will be able to notice and immediately know I have gone beyond f2 and not just created something I figure to be f3 within f2. Thanks for all your help.

The area just has a completely different character. F3oC is what is known as the Transition Area. It's where everyone goes to initially when they "die". This is the place where you will find all the heavens and the hells of the religious types. But you come across a load more besides. The upper branches (as I call them) of F3 is where you want to head for. Here you meet people who are very lucid "dead and proud of it" as I call them. You can chat to these people and often they'll tell you about their physical lifetime.

Now and again you can find out some info you can check, say, by keying it into a search engine. If ever a person wanted concrete "proof" of the whole experience, particularly the fact that there is no "death" then this is the place to do it.

I was chatting to a guy not so long ago and he told me his name and that he was an engineer in his physical life. He invented this steam hammer whatever it was. I didn't understand much of it, to be honest, I'm an ex-engineer but I have zero interest in steam engines. I nodded politely, as you do, while clarifying the key points. Anyhow, I keyed the name into Google and, sure enough, what he said was absolutely true. But that's just one example of quite a few I've had. After a while you move on from the "proof thing" so to speak, you just learn to accept it and get on with other things.

There was a time once I came across an Arabic place, it was a kind of eating place sort-of like a cafe. Anyhow, I was asking the "owner" there what the name meant. It was a weird sounding name, very unusual. Well, I guess anything Arabic would be unusual to me as I understand not even one word. But he said that one of the words in the two-word name (aagh, I forget what it was now as it was about 3 years ago this happened). Anyhow, one of the words was this ancient arabic word for... ? And that's what I forget now, but at the time I made careful mental note.

I searched for this word all over the Internet. I kept looking and looking and finally I came across this one website and there was this word. I was gobsmacked when I saw it because the description of its useage or meaning was exactly as the old Arab man had described. It was a very unusual very ancient word. In other words, it was just nothing that I could ever even have imagined. But again, these are the kinds of experiences you get in this area, as you are dealing with people who are "separate" from you as opposed to aspects of yourself, which is what you come across in F2.

Yes, though in theory you should be able to do it directly from F1. Problem is the physical captures our focus to a great extent. Which I suppose is a good thing in many ways. After all, you don't want to be driving down the freeway and suddenly transition to F4. :)

It is much easier to do from F2 as you don't have the strong kind of magnetic attraction of your focus that the physical presents. Unfortunately, you do have other problems due to the sheer fluidity of the F2 environment. But these can be overcome with practice.

Each area of consciousness or focus of attention is greatly intertwined with another. So from F2, simply stand still and "detune" your focus and you should get a controlled overlay experience of the kind I describe. People get what I call "overlay" experiences all the time. This is where you might perceive 2 or 3 areas of consciousness at the same time. In other words, one is overlaid on the other. A typical one is an F2/F1 overlay where someone is engaged in an objective viewing of their subjective activity and they can also see their room "through closed eyes" as it is often described.

This also happens in reverse a lot, so an F1/F2 overlay (I always put the primary focus first, followed by the overlay area). Someone may plop out into the RTZ, which is F1, but they may begin seeing snippets of the objective manifestations of their subjective activity with F2 at the same time. Hence an F1/F2 overlay.

Wherever you focus your attention becomes your reality. So by creating a controlled overlay, we cause elements of the other area to intersperse with our current area. As it does so, we point our focus of attention at the other area, which then becomes our reality. We don't actually "travel" anywhere. This is what I mean when we occupy all of consciousness already. If you are "in" one area, you are automatically "in" all the areas. The key is, of course, to realise that. Problem is a lot of people keep trying to "travel" to places and in doing so they end up just going around in circles.

This is part of also when I say to people to let the experience come to them, as opposed to in some way trying to "chase" it.

By creating a controlled overlay, we can bring into our objective awareness elements of the other areas. We then focus our attention on the elements pertaining to the area we wish to perceive. This area then becomes our reality. That's the theory and it does work quite smoothly in practice too, given some practice, of course.

Accessing Focus 4 of consciousness is the same. Only be prepared for a total disintegration of your sense of individualness of mind. :) Problem is we are so very used to having only ourselves in our mind. It's very freaky having what you initially perceive as "others" that you can come to believe are "invading" your mind. Plus you become a pure point of consciousness, occupying no actual space at all. The first tendency is to panic and to start frantically looking around for yourself, because it feels like you have entirely disintegrated into nothing.

You haven’t, of course, all you have done is revert to your natural state. It’s just that as humans we get ever so hung up over the notions of “bodies” and occupying areas of “space”. This is where all the mystics completely misunderstood it, and where all the talk about losing our individuality comes from. Together with the notions of joining some kind of amorphous “whole”. The amorphous whole is not some kind of objective entity, such as “god”. It’s just Focus 4 of consciousness. But again, people tend to objectify everything.

Focus 4 is a more or less entirely subjective area of consciousness. I say more or less because you can experience objectivity as a concept. But not objectivity as we know it to be within the physical. Remember, Focus 4 holds the blueprints for all the objective actions we ultimately experience within F1. So within F4 you can experience anything you like, but as a concept. Not as an actual objective reality.

So within F4, for example, and this is one of my favourites, I can become harmony, as a musical concept. I can become a musical chord, and in doing that I can interact with other minds who enjoy playing the same game, as a concept. So between us we can become harmony.

Once you get used to the place, as it were, you can have fun mixing and matching concepts. Another favourite of mine is to become the concept of a colour, another mind may become a contrasting colour. So between you, you become the concept of “pleasant contrast”. Now, to make it really interesting, introduce the concept of musical harmony. So now you can become the concept of musical harmony while also becoming the concept of “pleasant colour contrast”. And so it continues.

You can become anything, as a concept. You cannot objectively experience these concepts, you actually BECOME them.

Now, and this is the whacky thing, you can also become your current physical life… but as a concept! In other words, you become your current physical life as the ongoing objective manifestation of a linear series of concepts you are choosing to experience. In fact, you realise that absolutely everything that exists is founded on an original concept lodged within the area of Focus 4.

Like I say, anything can be experienced as a concept. Another one of my favourites is Tuesday. This one really tickles me. I start off by becoming the concept of linear time, then condense it to years, months and weeks. Now down to days. So I become the concept of a day, now give them names, so I introduce the concept of “a name” and form them into a circle. So I introduce the concept of a circle, and so on. But the day that makes me chuckle the most is Tuesday. With me, everything starts and ends with Tuesday for some reason. So to come around “again” you have to introduce the concept of repetition, plus the concept of beginning and end, and by that time I’m losing it because becoming the concept of beginning and end - within a completely timeless area - just cracks me up laughing so I lose it and transition to F1.

Problem is, once you start experiencing all this kind if thing, you will never look at your physical life in the same way again. You go through phases where you just can’t take anything seriously any more because you know the underlying truth behind it all.

Too much hypothesizing here. If you are talking about how to leave ordinary dream states the followings practices will be useful. To begin with, keep in mind that most dreams are surrounded by a wall like structures that very difficult to pass through. For instance, if you fly long enough in one direction eventually you will get the impression that you are inside an enormous plate. The ground starts to emerge at the verge of this plate and you'll be forced to land in front of this wall.

The wall could have many appearances. In my case it mostly looks like a botched up tunnel system. When I attempt to get outside the visuals decompose into repetitive patterns and the projection become instable. Also there is a patrol like activity inside the tunnels, fairly automatic and aggressive that will make the transition fearful. Many people reported similar experiences.

However, my favorite method to exit dreams is to walking into dream walls. Inside there at first I have to get out from a bubble I tend to drag along like a womb-like cavity like an extension of the dream that still connects me. Then I stabilize my perception with my palm until it the darkness gains some depth. I have to look through it. Sometimes I feel pre-exit vibrations (sign of deeper sleep and leaving the REM state). At this point I'm in a great space, grey or brownish in general, with some unknown activity in the depth that I could zoom on.

I found that the best way to leave ordinary dream states is to having a strong declaration and regularly speaking it aloud, avoiding conversations with dream characters and stop thinking. I prefer to look around from elevated spots, like rooftops where I could be alone and have a look on the entire dream-scape. Then I start systematically disregarding dream hallucinations by moving my attention around. I focus on distant buildings and objects long enough in order to make hallucinations melting. I keep the sightings of every stable elements that attract my attention and disregard those that change or become transparent.

Nowadays I learned to do it while am flying in autopilot mode. First of, I order my energy body to take me out from the dream, voicing my intent as simple and specific as I am able to, then I just let myself to soar free. To keep my attention coherent but detached and to avoid involuntary awakenings I focus on my palm. I steal a glance of my environment only for mere curiosity but careful enough to not interfere with the process. Otherwise there is a risk of zooming away or falling apart amongst all of those reach visuals I used to immersed within.

At first usually I move between characteristic symbols of this borderland area like strange buildings and giant factories. Interestingly, my movement is rather flowing than actual flying since I'm totally passive being carried by some current. The carrier force love to take me through every little hole and passages we may encounter. I (we) even gain speed inside narrow entrances like I'd be a little particle drifting in water. Alongside with flying through vertical surfaces, I consider these maneuvers as attempts to detach my attention from the environment.

Eventually the dream-scape will decompose into a bunch of various surreal objects and building like complexes. I've found that microchip like structures, and organic patterns are prominent symbols of this state. They are interspersed in the space or sitting on some fluid, transparent landscapes in constant motion. These are proved to be symbols of other realms that are more stable than ordinary dreams.

Anyway, flying become totally useless. If I try to approach a symbol by flying I'd only get closer to its dream representation, and eventually I would hover above a lifeless miniature of a city or something like that. This size inconstancy is sure sign of missing the refocusing process that have to occur when I move between independent reality systems. To "travel" this "inter-dimensional matrix" I have to focus my sight on a valid symbol and long enough to trigger the zooming effect. Then zoom turns into flying and I would enter the airspace of the chosen reality system, falling off from above and landing. Other times I just appear somewhere as if by magic. Either way the transition has been completed and everything became normal again.

Problem is, once you start experiencing all this kind if thing, you will never look at your physical life in the same way again. You go through phases where you just can’t take anything seriously any more because you know the underlying truth behind it all.

Your not kidding!!! Even just from f1 to f2 and back usually leaves me with a strange feeling that I have officially either gone nuts, or know the final answer to the meaning of life (or both ). Now that I have changed my focus so many times I often don't know which focus I'm in, then I realize I'm in all of them and my brain melts down and I just start laughing. Becoming music? OH MAN I'm going to have a field day with that!! So your telling me that if I wished, I could become a note, then a series of notes, then a whole song if I had enough focus and energy? Sounds amazing. Now I'm getting all giddy with anticipation! Can you phase from f1 to f4? How in gods name would one go about that?Thanks again.

Wow! Thats quite some info I have to digest. Many thanks to Frank and also upstream for the thoughtful replies.I can't wait to try it out on my own!I guess it will take some practice , but at least I have a goal to work on.

Thanks again!

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" In order to arrive at a place you do not know you must go by a way you do not know "

I read the beginning of this thread last night for the first time (don't know how I missed it before) and had the fortune of having a lucid dream this morning.

Quote

In a way, it’s like looking at one of those subliminal pictures that were all the rage a number of years ago. The ones where you apply a soft focus and the picture comes into view. Take the same idea and do this within Focus 2.

Bruce Moen actually made this same analogy in his latest book - the pictures are called stereograms, btw. As I was lucid this morning I looked at my hand and tried to recall the feeling of looking at a stereogram. My hand changed shape a bit, and then I felt the dream fade into blackness. This blackness reminded of what I have been feeling recently with my short APs to F1oC, and I wiggled my toe to make sure I was right. This brought me out of the state but I was able to take note of this experience and remember it.

I think I was in F1 without being able to see, instead of being in the 3D Blackness, so do you have any idea what I did wrong?

I like posts like this because I've never read Bruce's latest book, but his work runs along similar lines and he is describing similar techniques. This gives people a handy confirmation of the fact that we are dealing with reality here, and not make believe.

You went the wrong way!

From Focus 1 you can only go one way. Focus 1 is an end result so you can only back up from there. But at Focus 2 you have the choice of Focus 3 or Focus 1 (and F4, of course, but let’s put that area aside for now). I guess you sort-of took the most natural route.

The physical captures our focus quite considerably. Many times it grabs me and it's a devil of a job to focus away from it. But it's really weird because if I find myself within the RTZ, which is actually the physical, I find it incredibly difficult to stay there as I'll almost immediately transition directly to F3.

Sometimes I'll make the switch to F2 and transition accidentally back to the RTZ and then almost immediately transition to F3. It's kind of a roundabout way of doing it, but that's the way it is sometimes. I think once you get more used to making these transitions then you’ll be able to recover a projection that doesn’t quite go to plan.

It’s a question of being able to quickly gauge precisely where you are in the general scheme of things. The moment you start getting confused and wondering where you are, then there seems to be an automatic mechanism that just zaps you back to physical. And if you happen to go wrong and end up in the physical, and then start wondering where you are, then it’s like you stand little chance of getting out of it.

It’s just one of those things where practice makes perfect. I can do it fairly easily but I’ve done it loads of times and can always recognise where I am no problem. After a while you just get the feel of the places. But I know when I was first working on this it was very hit and miss.

I too had some success . I became aware within the dream environment and decided to try it out. I detuned my view and the dream scape got some black splits (with some sparkling around at the edges?!) I zoomed into the darkness and the dream scape fell away entirely. I was in the 3-D-Blackness. at this point I didn't remember what to do next, so I just said, "I wanna go somewhere interesting". Soon something took my hand and I was dragged thru the blackness, if felt the "air" rushing at an enormous speed on my skin. after a while I found myself at a new picture, but at that very moment I awoke

I'll try again..........

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" In order to arrive at a place you do not know you must go by a way you do not know "

That's excellent, you got the slat effect and made the transition to Fz. Note: Fz is the new label for the 3D Blackness. That's the first time anyone has been able to report that. I'm really getting confident now that in a few years we'll all be meeting up within Focus 3. I was wondering if the reason why you lost the thread of it was because you got a bit too excited? Any kind of excitement tends to zap you back to physical. You can get a little excited, that's only normal, but the key word is little.

I attempted the transition into Fz a few nights ago. I was surprised when I saw the slats you described actually appear. The first two times I've tried this I didn't get far at all, mostly becuase I wasn't lucid enough and lost focus. My most recent attempt happened two nights ago. I say the view in front of me devide into blackness and I walked into it. Nothing happened immediately so I took a few more steps and heard water splashing as if I were walking through a puddle. I thought I woke up then becuase I suddenly found myself back in bed. I had to still be dreaming though becuase I saw a water droplet fall and hit me in the face. I then fell back to sleep. Do you think I might have been close transitioning into Fz?

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"Doohicky" "thingie", "thingamajigger" and "what'sit" are all commonly accepted engineering terms these days. Impress your boss and use more than one in a sentance... Major brownie points!-Corax a.k.a RavenCAD

I figured that if the slats appear for me then in theory they should appear for anyone. I have no particular talent for this kind of thing. I wasn’t born with any kind of “gift” or anything. I guess where I am different is I just keep plugging away until I get whatever it is to work. I think what happened in your case is you were about to make the transition to Fz and then you lost focus and slipped back to F2. With people there tends to be a “protection mechanism” that prevents them from making wild steps into the unknown, as it were. It doesn’t bother me much now as my protective sense of awareness has long since got used to my escapades. But take baby steps in the beginning. It always seems that the slower you tread the faster you make progress. Which sounds a bit topsy turvy but non-physical exploration is very like that.

The other thing to realise is you don’t actually have to walk or “travel” anywhere. You can simply stay in the same position and shift your perception. In other words, rather than you walk to it, simply have “it” come to you. It’s much more controlled to do it that way. Once people start moving about that’s when they tend to lose control of it. They start flying around here and there and have a whacky experience that perhaps they enjoyed immensely. But you are not going to make any real progress that way. The whole idea of “travel” is a mystical belief construct that came about from the early explorers making the assumption that they were travelling to some separate place from themselves. But what you are actually doing is shifting your perception within your own mind, or your own continuum of consciousness.

I'm at FoC 2 and decide to try to reach Fz, then usually the thought pops up, that I might just end up in F1. I try to stay calm and start to defocuse the dreamscape. the slats usually appear without much problem. I then zoom into the blackness and the dreamscape just falls away.

Now the trouble start: I usually find myself in a blackness (Fz?) but after a very short periode of time ( about 1 sec.) I start to feel my body lying in bed. this inevitably takes my focus back to F1 and the experience ends No chance I can fly around in Fz and explore the darkness, the feel of my physical body just pos up by itself. I tried to not focus on the physical, but I fail every time. What am I doing wrong? Or maybe it would be better to try to zoom directly to F3 instead of Fz when leaving F2? Just defocus the dreamscape and focus on reaching F3? would that be the way to go?

Tom

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" In order to arrive at a place you do not know you must go by a way you do not know "

I think you are not actually doing anything wrong. I think all you need is more practice. It sounds to me like there is some protective aspect of your awareness that is getting a little fearful or maybe you are getting too excited. I’m assuming that when you ended up back at the physical there was no problem like you needed to use the bathroom or you were too hot or something. Or there was not some kind of unusual sound or whatever that had disturbed you. Because the physical can often bring you back, so to speak, for all manner of niggling little reasons. It’s just something you have to accept.

But in your case, as you do not mention anything specific regarding the physical, then I think a part of you is perhaps getting a little fearful or excited. Unfortunately, any kind of fear or excitement can put a spoke in the works. Maybe instead of zooming into the blackness take a little walk, or let the blackness come to you. In other words, slow down a little. You can attempt a direct transition and bypass Fz entirely. But that is possibly trickier than what you are attempting now. I say possibly because you can never always tell in any individual case. But the transition F2>Fz>F3 is normally the easiest route even though it would appear a slightly more roundabout way of doing it.

You can always try bypassing F2 altogether and making an F1>F3 transition, but that’s typically even trickier still. Please realise in all this that people will have their individual stumbling blocks that may take a while for them to overcome. Some people may have difficulties in other areas that you may find straight forward and vice versa.

No there was no physical sensation that pulled me back. I was assuming that I probably just need more practice to get "used" to the transition, Fear/exitement may very well play a roll. It is just reassuring to hear that one is basically on the right track and not doing some fundamental thing wrong.

It is just a bit annoying when I terminate the experience myself, by accident so to speak. practice, practice I guess......

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" In order to arrive at a place you do not know you must go by a way you do not know "

I made two successfully attempts to enter the void. This time I was able to stay a bit longer there 10-20 sec. What puzzles me is the fact that I seem not to be able to create anything there. You guys said it is like raw matter where anything that one imagines comes into reality. Haven't experienced that yet. Wasn't able to create any door or so to enter F3, so I started to wonder if I am really in the correct Blackness (Fz)?! What makes me even more doubtful is the following I read somewhere else.

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Jeff answers....... .........you have two black voids.. The big black void or deep sleep has one unique thing instead of the small void witch is a in between layer between waking and dreaming..and that is that when you want to wake up you always go up to less deep sleep layers and go through dream stage again although that can be seconds only..while in the small void if you go upwards in consciousness you wake up right away and never see any dream because for that you would first have to into a deeper sleep stage again. Also in the small void you can see visuals hypnogogics also in the deep sleep black void that aint so because your visual cortex is of line. But probably while obeing one time or another you have been in both.

Hmmmmmmmm I'm a little unsure how to proceed now, which one is the correct blackness?..... Please help i wanna reach F3 so badly........

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" In order to arrive at a place you do not know you must go by a way you do not know "

What for? Everyone want to phase in to F3 because RTZ is boring. Although what most people call here RTZ OBE is usually a plain lucid dream, RTZ OBEs could be indeed boring. But the fact is, without the ability to project into the RTZ you can't reach explore other realities.

Maybe you can have lucid dreams about it, and you can switch your focus into the regio where dead people lives, F3 yes or whatever - still boring after a while. Anyway, what is boredom? It's a state of mind. Curse of the social welfare, luxury of the week minded. I bet explorers are never bored.

The possibility for having some genuine exploration simply lies in our ability to project into the RTZ, to get in tune with those structures through the Earth is connected to the rest of the Universe - not in your ability of being good psychiatrist of dead but bored people.

Anyway, you need the small blackness for F1 to F2 transition. It's phasing. You doesn't really change your arousal rather you just switch your focus. On the other hand the F2 to F3 transition requires your brain to slip into delta sleep, where the great blackness comes forth.

This is what you did recently, I've read your post at ld4all. You have moved directly from level four to level zero by doing your disconnection trick. You have been fired out "through the top of your head," so to speak, through your crown chakra, and found yourself in the great darkness, Fz

The Fz corresponds with a highly unpacked configuration of the energy body. The "energy body" I'm talking about realizes itself directly from the physical vacuum and use it for moving like a wrinkle does on a table-cover. It represent only a segment on the consciousness continuum and seems to be highly independent from the body and its bioplasm appendage.

When you dreamt about the Fz your energy body had a size commensurable with the Earth's circumference. All portal structures of the Earth system were within yourself. Your energy body remained somewhat spatially incoherent, hence your inability to perceive F3 in human terms. You just had to change your focus by placing your intent and zoom away.

I already described my trick in this thread how to keep coherence while you attain the F2 to F3 transition. The trick is to keep the pictures of real objects only as you gradually immobilize your physical eyes and exit REM sleep.

If Frank's slat method works for everyone it rather has the dynamic the disconnection trick you did by sleeping within a dream without using the twin position. Alternatively, you may try to establish a close-to-RTZ perception (see my RTZ guide) then you could zoom away from the RTZ.

This is not equivalent with phasing into F3 though. It's also about travelling in space as we know it.

It doesn't matter to me what others are. I'm curious. I heard about F3, now I wanna go and explore that. you may be right I mostly have LD although I do have RTZ OBE from time to time. flying around, walking around the bedroom, watching reality fluctuations, moving tru walls.......It is just not what I'm looking for. If I'm missing the point and you can show me a way to make this OBE's more exploratory, I'm happy!

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This is what you did recently, I've read your post at ld4all. You have moved directly from level four to level zero by doing your disconnection trick. You have been fired out "through the top of your head," so to speak, through your crown chakra, and found yourself in the great darkness, Fz

What do you mean by level four, level zero. I do not understand. Could you please explain a bit more about it. How can I trigger this again, I still do not really understand how I triggered it?! Last time I tried nothing special happened, I just ended up in the Blackness

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When you dreamt about the Fz your energy body had a size commensurable with the Earth's circumference. All portal structures of the Earth system were within yourself. Your energy body remained somewhat spatially incoherent, hence your inability to perceive F3 in human terms. You just had to change your focus by placing your intent and zoom away.

What kind of intent? to see F3? How can I zoom away from a Blackness?

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If Frank's slat method works for everyone it rather has the dynamic the disconnection trick you did by sleeping within a dream without using the twin position.

Can you tell memore about the twin position and what it exactly it is and how it works? I would like to understand that better.

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I already described my trick in this thread how to keep coherence while you attain the F2 to F3 transition. The trick is to keep the pictures of real objects only as you gradually immobilize your physical eyes and exit REM sleep.

Do you mean the following?

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I focus on distant buildings and objects long enough in order to make hallucinations melting. I keep the sightings of every stable elements that attract my attention and disregard those that change or become transparent.

I'll give it a try. I know i ask a lot of questions, hope you find time to answer

BTW what is your name at LD4all?

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" In order to arrive at a place you do not know you must go by a way you do not know "

Of course, Tombo, I was not talking about you in particular. I've just mentioned a trend I'm not an exception of. Having a "real" RTZ OBE is not easy for me.

By "real" RTZ OBE I mean a state when I have no body at all. I just slide in the air as a pinpoint or blob, mostly along surfaces and electrical wires. It's a mix of sliding and jumping actually. Sometimes I am able to see the insides and outsides of objects at the same time, quite weird but seems natural in that state, or have an all encompassing panoramic view.

I don't consider other experiences RTZ OBE. In my view there are lucid dreams. Not "just" lucid dreams, however, because more similar the "hallucinated" environment of a LD to an actual physical place, the more condensated the "energy body" (sensory energy field that realizes itself directly from the physical vacuum) at that place.

In a typical fake OBE, the energy body is an amorf cloud, so to speak, with many seeds and spours that interprenetates all the physical places that the vision of that given dream encompasses. However, if you manage to dream about only one place and with high accuracy, the energy body become very dense and starts to perceive (interact with) physical objects. It fluctuates though, and when temporairly collapses, reality wavers.

RTZ OBEs are such as they are. However, if you want to explore in the style of the son of a space ship and an interdimensional jellyfish you have to first develop your RTZ attention.

A close to RTZ attention is optimal to have the energy body configuration that enable you to isolate the electromagnetic structures through the Earth is connected to the rest of the Universe.

You may begin with the object inspecting method I described in this tread. It's a simplified version of the outdoor exercises of my fluctucondensation practices.

However, you'd better to begin with the indoor exercises I wrote about in my RTZ guide. For this, you need to get back in the dream version of the room where you sleep, or a place you know very well. You have to memorize it. You can induce an OBE-like dream too by falling in the twin position and separate in your bedroom. Then you do the indoor exercises.

The indoor exercises are enough for having a close to RTZ attention since the outdoor exercises mainly consists directed series of zooms to further condensate the energy body in the RTZ. It's quite unnecessary to describe them since after you have done the indoor parts you will know what to do.

After you lost your legs settle down on a tall building and command yourself out loud that you want to see those portal structures. They will appear on the horizon as strange buildings or symbols or whatever that suits for you.

You may find yourself looking upon a surreal landscape, or immersed with in an abstract space filled with space ship like things. Whatever will be the case, you could zoom now. Focus on an object for more than a couple of seconds and let the force accelerate you. The main thing is that you shouldn't try to fly on your own otherwise you'll be disappointed, finding yourself hovering near a miniature city or something you can't enter. Alternatively, you may fly upwards until reality changes. Who knows where you will end up?

P.S. Twin position and arousal levels are defined at ld4all.com. I'm popov there.

I was just wondering if anyone had made the connection of Frank's Focuses to that of Plato's Forms.

Plato believed that Ultimate Reality was everything that existed in the universe in its most perfect Form and that Physical Reality is simply a physical application of the Form and that physical objects are thrice removed from Ultimate Reality.

For example, according to Plato, there are chairs in the physical realm, none of these chairs are perfect in the physical realm and are all completely unique. Although, in some transcendent realm, there is a Chair (single Chair, the Form of the Chair) that is what every single chair in the universe is copied from.

Keeping this in mind: From what I have read in Frank's posts, Focus 4 allows you to experience/become/perceive everything in the universe in its most perfect "concept" (Form). In Focus 3, you would "see" everything in the universe in the ways that everybody in the universe "sees" them as being "real" thus making Focus 3 once removed from reality. Now, between Focus 2 and Focus 1 it's kind of hard to explain, but bear with me please. Focus 2 is how you, WITH YOUR MIND, perceive everything to be true, thus making it twice removed from reality, but Focus 1, on the other hand, uses your senses to perceive something as true, thus making it thrice removed from reality.

Maybe somebody could clean up the correlation a bit, but upon reading this thread, I was instantly teleported back to my philosophy class. If anyone else has made this connection between the two, or would provide some more thought to it, that would be awesome.

Until then, I'll be reading theories of both Frank and Plato.

Also: Something that is kinda funny. Plato did not enjoy paintings or sculptures because they are a copy of the physical object, thus being four times removed from reality.