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building my own frames

I got the plans for building my own frames from the build it yourself part of this website.I am an exp. woodworker,but i am perplexed,the end bars are 3/8in thick which doesn't leave much room for screws thru the top bar or nails thru the sides,my question is ...can someone tell me how their storebought frames are assembelled?

Re: building my own frames

I use Titebond II or III glue... and 1 1/4" x 1/4" crown staples. Each endbar receives two staples down through the topbar, one through the side angled upward into the topbar and one or two through the bottom bar. Eight to ten staples per frame, and glue.

Re: building my own frames

I assemble mine the same as Bee Curious. 2, 1 1/4 crown staples down from the top (each side), 2 from the side into the top bar,(one each side) 4 into the divided bottom bars. Titebond 3 all joints. I only assemble about 1200 per year. ( I sell 100-125 hives each year so I have to assemble frames for each box) I assemble during the winter, using a simple jig to hold the frames straight during assembly, and use a Hitachi crown stapler.

Re: building my own frames

[QUOTE=Cleo C. Hogan Jr;824835]I assemble mine the same as Bee Curious. 2, 1 1/4 crown staples down from the top (each side), 2 from the side into the top bar,(one each side) 4 into the divided bottom bars. Titebond 3 all joints. I only assemble about 1200 per year. ( I sell 100-125 hives each year so I have to assemble frames for each box) I assemble during the winter, using a simple jig to hold the frames straight during assembly, and use a Hitachi crown stapler.

I guess that is 10 per frame.

I only assemble a few hundred a year. I use one nail each side from the top and bottom ( 4 in total) and use Titebond 3.
I can't recall a frame failing on me. I wonder if to many nails or staples may actually weaken the wood? Something to calculate or test.
I have a few frames in use which have only been glued - an experiment at this stage but so far so good

Re: building my own frames

Max2...You may be right... Can't recall where I read it, but, someone did a study that said, Titebond, or other suitable glue alone was all that is needed. In fact, they recommended a jig to hold 10 frames, and for the hobbiest, simply place in the jig and glue, allow to sit overnight. No nails or staples at all. Of course a commercialist would need several jigs to assemble lots of frames in a short period of time.

I too, have not had a frame to fail, so I don't know what is the proper thing to do. Don't have any data on this, but, I think I would rather have glue than just nails, but, a combination of both is probably better.

Re: building my own frames

I use a Bostitch finish nailer with 1-1/4 inch nails mainly because that is what I already own. Two nails each end of the top bar. one thorough the end into the top bar and one each end of the bottom bar into the end bar. Makes a nice sturdy frame.

If you make them yourself make sure you let the wood set and acclimatize well before assembly. I would let it do so before final cutting as well.

Re: building my own frames

DanielY,
Hey don't forget the power of masking tape. If you are wanting to build a bunch at once you can forget the staples and glue it and hold still with masking tape. Just pull it tight before you stick it so it has tension. I have great success with tape in situations where clamping isn't productive. You know the strength of the wood glue, stronger than the wood by far.
One other idea would be dowel rods with glue. Simple and it doesn't loosen like a nail but it still has 2 forms of anchorage.

Re: building my own frames

Nails alone are quite adaquate, but glue won't hurt. Unless you are using a jig, make absolutely sure the frames are square and flat before the glue set, otherwise they fit badly and the bees will glue them more than usual. Factory made ones go together pretty well, but even those need to be checked.

I use a pair of 1.25" nails in each end of the top bar, one from the side through into the top bar, and one each on both ends of my divided bottom bars. Those last are 3/4".

I make my frames at the moment -- my time is free for all intents and purposes, and shipping is to expensive. I take a 2x6 (or 2x8 or 2x10, whatever is available) and cut to 19" long, then cut an angled cut on both ends, both sides for the taper. I then cut them to width (1 1/16" for standard, 7/8" for narrow), then split them in half. Old equilibrated wood works better than fresh from the lumber yard --- the fresh wood tends to be VERY dry in the center, so it warps when cut. Should "relax" in a while, but scrap wood a couple years old works better. I then use a dado to cut the slot for the end bars. Doesn't take too long if you do a big pile at once.

For the end bars, I take more 2x, plane down to the correct width and cut to the proper length, then cut a dado in the top for the top bar. Reset the blade, cut the dados for the divided bottom bar, then slice to width. Again, best to cut a dozen blanks and do them all at the same time. Worst part is getting the dados in the right place.

Making frame parts is a nice winter project. Then when you need them in the spring, all you have to do is assemble.

As far as wood goes, yellow pine works fine for top bars, but tends to crack when nailed for end bars. "whitewood" pine works great, and if you use a band saw for the slicing instead of a table saw, is as cheap as it gets -- about 19 cents per frame for the wood if you use 2x6 whitewood at $3.60 per piece. Yellow pine 2x10 would be cheaper. I should be in great shape soon - my brother needs to tear down his old pony barn, and the the stall is made of 2x6s. Should have an endless supply of good wood.

Re: building my own frames

I use glue, and a brad nailer. (no stapler for me) 2 brads in the end of the side bar into the top bar, then looking at the face, one in the "tail" that sticks up onto the top bar. nothing from the top bar down.

this gives 4 brads per side plus glue. As others have said, glue alone is likely good enough, nails to hold it together while it drys.

Re: building my own frames

Originally Posted by Charlie B

I only think of staples as clamps for the Titebond III to set when making frames. The glue alone would be adequate.

I 'feel" the same but have no long term proof. Has anybody done long term teating? I have only glued a frame and then pulled it apart - it broke at the wood rather then glue section. I try to reduce work as much as possible and the price of nails keeps going up too!

Re: building my own frames

I use Titebond III but also use 5/8 brads in an air nailer. For bottom bar I put one nail from bottom into the end bar. This is while is the frame jig. I then flip the frame gig and insert the top bars with glue. At that point I remove each frame and add brads to each tab of the end frame (both sides) and a brad from the end bar face into the top bar. I then flip the frame adn add an extra brad through side of end bar into the bottom bar. This places each brad at 90 degrees to stress of removing the frame from a hive body. This reduces chance of failure.

The primary strength is the glue but the angled nailing also serves as good clamping pressure.

Re: building my own frames

Originally Posted by max2

I 'feel" the same but have no long term proof. Has anybody done long term teating? I have only glued a frame and then pulled it apart - it broke at the wood rather then glue section. I try to reduce work as much as possible and the price of nails keeps going up too!

For me that's all the proof you need. I've done the same and the wood broke before the glued joint. I have to admit I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't tested it myself. Titebond III is amazing. The only reason I use staples is that it's a faster clamping technique than traditional clamps.

Re: building my own frames

Originally Posted by Charlie B

For me that's all the proof you need. I've done the same and the wood broke before the glued joint. I have to admit I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't tested it myself. Titebond III is amazing. The only reason I use staples is that it's a faster clamping technique than traditional clamps.

I buy my frames from a fellow who does a really good job - excellent tight fit and the quality construction plus Titebond 3 is probably enough - but I have nailed the frames for 35 years and old habits are difficult to get rid off.