Originally posted by Better Mouse Trap
Dude has been playing like out of this world bro, he paid his dues over that BS. Leave dude alone, let him be the best quarter-back ever.

Those rescued "poor" pitt-bulls that Vic was not directly involved with, guess what bro, they were put to sleep.

Hypocritical huh?

edit on 17-11-2010 by Better Mouse Trap because: (no reason given)

I will bite who is bro? And why did you feel the need to post this? I personally think Vick is a great NFL player but a terrible human being and
should have never been allowed in the league after doing that. So I guess that makes me BRO. The league needs standards and he does not meet them and
neither does Farve for that matter.

Hmm, should I click reply hmmm. Next time you might want to get someone to help you with the content.

those dogs fight to the death... he doesn't have to harm them. not to mention the fact when you make a dog mean like that, you've basically built a
really loose canon if it ever gets out... happens a lot. dogs that are trained that way aren't trained to be smart. they can be extremely dangerous.

you know those dogs never get petted and stuff. they are not like normal dogs, that's why it's a crime.

my dog had a litter of puppies and they had bad genes or something and had the mange, which can be treated if you have money... which i didn't. I
couldn't put them down and tried to care for them but there were too many and i had to keep them on property where nobody lived, couldn't be with
them but everytime i went to feed them (everyday unless I was sick) I tried to pet them. Those dogs got wild as #!

A domestic animal and a wild animal are two very different things and there are also laws against having wild animals for a reason.

I believe some were adopted, I knew someone on another forum who are trying to get past the rigorous screening process, after much outcry and
petitioning that they at least attempt to find homes capable of caring for the dogs.
However, if no suitable homes were/had been found, putting them was the kindest thing they could have done after what these dogs went through.
To be involved in the torture of these animals at any level is sick, and I'm not even a dog lover.As a celebrity he should have blown the whistle on
the operation. I believe even if he was not directly involved, but not alerting the authorities he is as guilty as any of the dog handlers.

Originally posted by Better Mouse Trap
but he did not actually harm one dog.

Please.

He plead guilty.

"In or about April of 2007, Peace, Phillips and Vick executed approximately eight dogs that did not perform well in 'testing' sessions at 1915
Moonlight Road by various methods, including hanging, drowning and slamming at least one dog's body to the ground."

Hmmm makes me wonder if I was guilty of running a dog fight operation, what my chances are of finding a job right out of prison. Yet this BASTARD
Vick, gets to go back and play professional football. Anyone see a problem with this?

His property. His. Dogs found there. Witnesses told of his involvement, in this so called sport (so bear baiting is a sport, too?).

Please. He was guilty. Paid his dues. So? Doesn't make him a saint, nor will it.

At the end of the season, he's a free agent. If my team, which desperately needs a QB, signs him? I'll not watch/listen to another game, so long
as he's on the roster. Those are my feelings on the matter. ...and I'm a Seahawk fan from Day one of the franchise. Some things can be forgiven
and forgotten, this ain't one of them. Wanton cruelty is unforgivable.

I don't care much for the guy, but the dog issue really has nothing to do with it. I admit he's playing the ball of his life this season and,
amazingly, seems to finally deserve some of the accolades. When he was a Falcon, he was highly overrated, IMO.

As far as the dog fighting went, I honestly didn't care nor did I get why so many people jumped him over it, let alone the jail sentence. Clinton
Portis' comment about it was actually pretty damn spot on. Depending on what part of the country you grew up in, it was just a part of the
landscape. Technically, he broke the law... but seeing as how that same law routinely lets repeat offenders in violent crimes against other people
walk free, rapists, chronic DWI offenders, child abusers, and the like all frequently set loose on society with little to no punishment and certainly
no indication that they have even been remotely rehabilitated, I fail to understand why he deserved prison time. The man was made an example of
purely because he was a public figure who screwed up and not in any way based on what he actually did. On top of everything else, he was charged
under a RICO law which essentially was manufactured as a way for the government to guarantee conviction of mafia bosses who, themselves, hadn't
actually broken any laws. RICO is unconstitutional, totally demolishing the double jeopardy clause, penalizes people for claiming their 5th amendment
right, and requires less evidence per crime than if each drime was actually prosecuted.

Bottom line here, I'm not a Vick fan nor an Eagles fan, but I am getting a kick out of the huge middle finger he's sending to all the outraged by
absolutely crushing the system after being tagged by it. If anyone had written this as a story, it undoubtedly would have been considered a work of
pure fiction, yet here it is happening in living color.

Technically?
Why the qualifier?
He broke the law, he pleaded guilty, he went to jail ... nothing any more or less 'technical' about any of that. To add the 'technically' qualifier
intentionally minimizes the acts and crimes he committed.

Depending on what part of the country you grew up in, it was just a part of the landscape ... but seeing as how that same law routinely lets
repeat offenders in violent crimes against other people walk free, rapists, chronic DWI offenders, child abusers, and the like all frequently set
loose on society with little to no punishment and certainly no indication that they have even been remotely rehabilitated, I fail to understand why he
deserved prison time.

Okay, there are at least three logical fallacies in the above apologia.

The man was made an example of purely because he was a public figure who screwed up and not in any way based on what he actually
did.

Perhaps ... yet there are just as many who believe that he's gotten off easy because he was a public figure. Either perspective could reflect
the facts as they happened, thankfully laws are in the books to hash out such differences ... he had a lawyer, i'm sure he brought that up.

On top of everything else, he was charged under a RICO law which essentially was manufactured as a way for the government to guarantee
conviction of mafia bosses who, themselves, hadn't actually broken any laws. RICO is unconstitutional, totally demolishing the double jeopardy
clause, penalizes people for claiming their 5th amendment right, and requires less evidence per crime than if each drime was actually
prosecuted.

I agree with the above but the conclusion. For Al Capone was also 'railroaded' in similar fashion on tax evasion charges, doesn't mean he didn't
belong in jail. The RICO laws do deserve further discussion though.

Bottom line here, I'm not a Vick fan nor an Eagles fan, but I am getting a kick out of the huge middle finger he's sending to all the outraged
by absolutely crushing the system after being tagged by it.

How is he crushing the system?

As far as I and others can tell he is a different man and seems to have learned some valuable and hard lessons. Time will tell of course but crushing
the Redskins and crushing the system aren't one and the same.

But as an animal lover I wonder at how anyone would get a 'kick' out of Vick if he were 'crushing the system' and giving it and us 'the finger' ...
bringing us back and explaining the original observation that he 'technically' broke the law.

I don't mean to be polemic ... he committed a crime, he paid his dues, and I personally hold no grudge against him. But neither will I brush aside or
minimize what he has done. I suspect the universe feels the same way.

I used the qualifier because it fit what I was posting. Technically, Micheal Vick broke the law. There is a difference between technically breaking
the law and flagrantly being a criminal threat to society. 'Technically' when you exceed the speed limit, you are breaking the law... doesn't mean
that anyone in their right mind would support the idea of you being labeled a bad guy... unless you were speeding, got in a wreck, and ruined
somebody's life. Logic has got to play a role here. We're talking about dogs. We're not talking about a guy abusing children or using
dogs to attack people for fun & profit here. I see cases everyday in the news where people walk away scott free from situations such as those. I
think we sorely lack perspective in the judicial system in this country and cases like this highlight that fact.

His confession/guilty plea is meaningless. Thanks to the nation taking a purely emotional reaction to him, he knew he was headed to prison regardless
of a plea or not. Had nothing to do with what he actual did or did not do, he had been found guilty before the ink was even dry on the first
newspaper article about his intial arrest.

If you want actual proof of just how skewed the system is and in the fact that Vick took a sentence based entirely on emoyionally driven public
opinion opening the door for the authorities to make a public example (unfairly) out of him based on his recognizable status, look no further than to
the sentence handed out to Tony Taylor. Tony Taylor was the licensed owner of the kennel in question and was well known as a breeder of pit bulls,
and was the supplier and trainer of the dogs in the the Vick Case. He also had an existing rap sheet including drug possession and fellony drug
trafficing, for which he served hard time brfore ever meeting Vick. So here we have a repeat offender with a far more involved role in this crime,
yet a guy who the average person wouldn't know from Adam and he gets.... drum roll please....60 days in prison (of which he only served 51, being
released on good behavior.) Purnel Peace and Quanis Phillips, the other two defendants, also had extensive fellony criminal records and closer
involvement with the dog fighting than even the accusations claimed Vick did... Peace got 18 months, Phillips got 21. Vick got 23 months, with no
fellony charges in his record. Seem a bit skewed to you?

Look, I "get it." Dogs are man's best friend. Hell, I love dogs myself. Doesn't mean that I'm gonna get all emotional and let that override my
sense of logic and knowledge that, at the end of the day, the fact that we threw a dude in prison and attempted to ruin his entire life over
dogfighting while we allow thousands of people who have blatently demonstrated they are a direct threat to their fellow man to walk away unscathed
indicates a serious disconnect inside the legal system.

your bro sentiments are going to turn alot of people off to right off the bat OP

i have mixed feelings about the replies ive seen. he is a cruel person for subjecting those dogs to that, but i feel his personal life and
professional life should be kept seperate. he paid his due for what he was convicted of, and now is back to doing what he should have focused on all
along, playing great football.

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