Inside the Phillies with MLB.com beat writer Todd Zolecki

A Halladay First

Roy Halladay pitched the 65th complete game of his career last night at Citizens Bank Park, and it was the first one he lost when carrying a lead into the ninth inning at home.

Halladay has lost 15 complete games in his career. He blew a 3-2 lead in the eighth inning in Cincinnati on June 30, 2010. He allowed a run in the bottom of the ninth inning in a 1-0 loss in Boston on April 29, 2008. Those were the only complete game losses that came close to this one.

Of course, everybody will be second-guessing Charlie Manuel today. Should he have left Halladay in the game with Ryan Madson and Antonio Bastardo warming up in the bullpen? As soon as Halladay allowed the second hit of the inning I thought we’d see Bastardo, but I wasn’t surprised Manuel stuck with Halladay. I also didn’t think it was the wrong decision. Halladay was in a similar situation in Washington on April 13. He carried a 3-0 lead into the bottom of the ninth inning at Nationals Park, but allowed two runs to score with runners on second and third with just one out. Manuel stuck with Halladay then and he struck out the final two batters to win the game.

This time Manuel’s faith wasn’t rewarded, but up until last night Halladay had been perfect in situations like this.

22 Comments

Why would you even have Bastardo warming up if you are not going to use him against Overbay? I like Charlie as a manager for the LONG season, but he is not very good with IN-GAME decisions. This is based on watching him for 5-6 years. I think the Phillies have to overcome some of his decisions in post season play. I would like to know what input Dubee and the bench coach have.

Great point LaPhillie. I really like how you said that, I don’t think I’ve seen it said better. Over a long season, he is good for the team, but not great in any one particular game. Unfortunately, he is also not great in the playoffs. Joe Blanton instead of Cliff Lee in game 4 against the Yankees might have cost us a title. If Lee goes, he wins (we scored 4 runs, plenty for Cliff), then you can send Fat Joe in game 5, we still win (we rushed Burnett in that game). We lose game 6, but have Cliff Lee on the mound for game 7. We may not have won, but we would have had a better chance to win that World Series.

We trade for Halladay and Oswalt (2 pitchers with actually BETTER career numbers on short rest than regular rest), and trade away Cliff Lee. I hear a lot of talk about how Halladay can pitch 3 games in a series for us, that’s why he is such an upgrade to Lee (who has never pitched on short rest in his career).

All of which brings us to game 4 in the NLCS, and Charlie does the EXACT same stupid thing again by pitching Blanton. However, this time it is far worse, because of the baseball playoffs having a short first series, it actually penalizes teams that don’t lose a game in the first round, because thier 4th starter ends up on 18 days rest. Which is of course what Blanton ended up with for game 4 vs SF. Even if you want to make the argument that Hamels can’t pitch on short rest, there is ABSOLUTELY no reason why Halladay can’t pitch in game 4 while Blanton goes in either game 5 or 6, depending on what you do with Oswalt. You still put the best pitcher in baseball on the mound 3 times, regardless of whether that means Hamels only starts once, or Blanton not at all.

Charlie of course, isn’t done being stupid, and after pitching Blanton, pulls him in the 4th or fifth inning, when he wasn’t even pitching too bad, and had the lead. So, to recap, he pitches a guy who he DOESN’T EVEN TRUST TO GET THROUGH THE 4TH OR 5TH INNING WITH A STINKING LEAD INSTEAD OF THE BEST PITCHER IN BASEBALL!!! Apparently, pitching Blanton, then pulling him early in the game is a brilliant idea, because everyone knows our middle relief is our strong suit. If you’re gonna pitch Blanton, at least let him give you some innings when he has the lead. But Charlie basically calls himself a moron by pulling him early. If you trust him that little, he shouldn’t have sniffed that game in a million years.

Charlie now made the same stupid mistake in back to back years, which possibly costs us TWO world titles.

He is good over the long haul of the 162 game grind, but really bad when it counts, or when he actually has to do some in game thinking. Overbay had Halladay’s number tonight, he should have never faced him in the 9th. Sigh.

“Joe Blanton instead of Cliff Lee in game 4 against the Yankees might have cost us a title. If Lee goes, he wins (we scored 4 runs, plenty for Cliff)…” – interesting analysis, considering that the next day in Game 5 Lee gave up 5 ERs in 7 innings. Not to mention that he gave up 6 in one inning last year in a WS game against the Giants.

Where did I indicate that every game is not important? And if you read more closely you will see my inquiry was and continues to be by what stretch of the imagination are games occurring on August 17 and April 13 the same?

I think Charlie has done a magnificent job in his time here but I can’t defend last night. He blew it. Your bullpen is well rested, if you don’t use them, what’s the point of having them? This loyalty thing and indulgence of letting guys get complete games (which is a personal stat, not a team stat) is just nuts and the major flaw I see in his handling of the pitching staff. We already have 3 guys among the league leaders in innings pitched and a bullpen with a low number of innings. Let’s dial back the workload of the starters. As a fan, I don’t give a rat’s behind how many complete games they have at end of season. Just a little common sense.

I couldn’t understand why he didn’t pull Halladay after the first two batters got on base. Charlie had Bastardo and Madson warming up. At one point Dubee went to the phone and Lidge answered and was waving his cap to see which one might come into the game. Charlie definitely blew this one. If he would’ve pulled Halladay and bullpen blew the save it would have been just baseball. Such a shame since Halladay really pitched a gem.

should’ve taken him out. That situation in April 13th was about 2,000 fewer pitches ago. Doc wasn’t closing in on 110 pitches AND we had 3 runs to blow rather than 1…. We have two of the best back end pitchers in the game (Bastardo and Madson) use them for god’s sake… Save Doc’s arm and use what you’ve got. Every inning we save him now are innings he’ll be able to eat later

I agree with Todd. It was not surprising that Manuel stayed with Halladay…look at his track record. I was actually more disappointed that the offense could not bail him out. Halladay has come through for this team too many times to count. The one time he needed to be picked up, the offense failed to help him out.

Jenn, the offense definitely had opportunities to score more runs and they are as culpable as Roy for the loss. But Charlie was asleep at the wheel in the 9th last night. He’s so used to Doc being the horse that he forgot that he’s the manager and he has to take command. Two lefties coming up and Bastardo in the bullpen? It’s easy. And if Gibson counters with a RH bat, you got Madson.
But I think they need to find out what they have in Bastardo and last night was a perfect chance against a good team. He may end up as their closer next year; put him to the test. If they lose that way, so be it, it happens all the time. Ask Brian Wilson and Kimbrel about that. We are soooo spoiled.

I have no qualms with going with Halladay in the B9, but when he puts two on with no outs and a L batter, you MUST go with the LHP (Bastardo). There is NO DOUBT that you take Halladay out. I don’t give a SHIT what Charlie (and we) love about Roy getting us out of that situation and winning. You need to play the numbers and realize he is in a tight spot, and Bastardo has been SHINING in tight spots all year.
/rant

“It’s kind of his game, isn’t it?” Manuel said. “That’s my ace. That’s kind of the way I looked at it. If I was going to make a move, how come I didn’t make a move to start the inning?” This is the Charlie’s quote appearing in Todd’s main article. It just instills such confidence in Charlie. Doesn’t it?

So Todd thinks (according to his tweet in upper right) that what Pence did was hustle? Actually, what it was is dumb. He could have cost them a run at a crucial point of the game.
I can only imagine if somebody else had done it like, say, Ryan Howard. It certainly wouldn’t have been endearing. It would have been dumb.

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