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Topic: SYSTAINER³ available from September (Read 30437 times)

And finally, you do realise that the vast majority of people will already have a random mix of T-Loc, classic systainer, L-Boxx, Toughbox, whatever? Most people think having a collection of matching systainers is a bit mad.

How many people will have classics? I technically have one because Maxi was never updated. In a market like the US Festool wasn't very big by the time they switched to T-loc. I think I have around 50 systainers, only odd ball is the one maxi.

I have no other brands because well, most tools don't come with any case, so I have to put them in something. A lot of the brand cases that exist in the Europe don't exist here. Dewalt and Milwaukee each have some sort of system, but I've never seen them in a store or anyplace. In general sounds like the dewalts are complete junk. When I buy non festool tools and other items, I buy systainers and set them up for the tools. Mixing different brand cases wouldn't work as they general are different form factors. I did look into a system from a competitor to Tanos, but they don't ship to the US.

This all spins back to folks understanding that folks use such containers differently. If your primary focus for them is consistent storage, maximizing that aspect of things, changes do matter. If your need is Van usage then things will be different than the storage person. Thus why just thinking people will just have mix of brands and types doesn't fly for a lot of folks because that's the very thing they set up not to have. It's why all my blow molded cases tools came in ended up in the recycling bin. The goal is not to have a tool in a case, it's to have the same form factor case for all the tools and other items.

Ideally there would be an ISO standard for such containers. The basic form factor is a quasi standard (Euro-norm), but the other aspects of the design like the latches and such are not.

Obviously people will transition over to the new ones. That doesn't change the matter that for a lot of folks how they get used, they are very much a down grade. Things like the loss of the side label is a big deal for as it a key to my usage. I make labels for all 3 sides.

If you don't understand why people have issue with the new ones, or some make a big deal of it, just stop and realize not everyone uses them the same way. Things like the height changes are annoying to me, but not a deal breaker, but I absolutely understand why it is a big deal for others. Given a choice I'd prefer them not have change the heights.

And yes changes to them do impact the investment in what you have. Since you invest in items like Systainers to have the stability in design and to be able to keep buying the same thing. Now when things change you loose a core part of what people are going for. Some folks really do want to be able to buy the exact same thing any time they want for the rest of their lives. If you want to see a similar example of this, look what has happened with Rubbermaid discontinuing the rubbermaid roughneck totes. Rubbermaid made the exact same product (ignoring color) for decades, I think I read they go back to at least the 1970s. They were never super great, the part that made them great was that you could just keep buying the same product forever. People built the way the use them in their business around them, they organized their home storage around them and only them. A lot of stuff was built around that product because it never change in design. Then a few years ago they discontinued them, the fallout and anger from this has been massive. I had over a 100 of them some folks and businesses vastly more. It's not like you can just change to something else and nothing else has that stability in design. It wasn't about being a great design, it was about always being the same design. They were a pretty poor design, and expensive for what they were. But being able to run to the corner store and pick up a couple more year after year and they integrate in with what you have perfectly was the key.

A systainer is not a perfect design, but what it had is consistency. Are the new ones a massive change, no, not really. But they are design changes to target a completely different application. When the changes don't benefit those who will continue to use them the same way they have, that is where you get issues.

I agree that the changes aren’t massive. I agree that they’ve done it to target a different market. What I disagree on slightly is the ‘issue’ with them doing it. Yes, there will be people who are annoyed by this because the changes don’t benefit them, but they will be a minority and they will be able to carry on with the standard t-loc for the rest of their lives without issue.

Given that standard t-locks will be available one way or another for many many years to come, and given that you could easily sell any systainer3 you got with a tool and buy an equivalent old t-loc (and probably make a small profit), how are these new systainers going to cause a single issue for people who only want t-locs in their stack?

That’s the point. I’m not trying to persuade people that the new design isn’t a problem for them. I’m not trying to persuade them they’re wrong. I’m trying to point out it is a completely avoidable problem.

It seems that tanos is in partnership with bott van racking systems. New systainers are built to fit bott system, they are specially made to fit drawer racking system. Cut outs are based on bott system. Why they would do that doesn’t make much sense since outside of Europe bott systems are not really available. Same t-loc just different corners and three hinges on a back instead of two, which will help from twisting on uneven surface. That they changed the sizing, yeah sucks but that’s all to fit bott racking system in vans.

Having two types of insert boxes for small parts already being a huge annoyance (as it gets in the way constantly since you often can't simply move an insert box from one container to the other), turning that into three incompatible insert boxes is that high disregard of the customer that this figurative middle finger is illuminated and blinking. I for one have lost my will to give Festool/Tanos any more money for everything even remotely related to 'sort' they might come up with and will switch to a supplier (like Auer) that doesn't introduce incompatible changes to their boxes every some years because whynot.

You may want to check out ESSVE essbox system. For practicality superior to TANOS, AUER or any other similar system I know of. Transparent boxes and each box can (does not need to!) be closed separately with a lid. Very well thought out system.

Just looked at the Essve Essbox system on YouTube. Don’t even understand how they’re comparable to tanos & Auer systems? As far as I see they’re not.

As for comments that the new Systainers aren’t even an issue because one can just sell the new and buy an old. . . Lol - you’ve got more time on your hands than I. That is one pita solution.

I don’t think anyone has blown up too much about this size change. Just commented on the inconvenience of the change. How about letting those comments stand rather than invalidating them with such drivel.

What’s interesting about Essve’s storage system is that they’re mainly a fastener/hardware supplier and they wanted a more functional way to package the supplies. So, it’s most practical if you are buying supplies from them, already packed into their handy boxes.

I was comparing ESSVE Essboxes to new TANOS/FESTOOL Organizers. ESSVE doesn't make interlockable boxes comparable to Systainers. As for assortment boxes, Essbox system is ultimate IMO.

Ah, I see, my mis understanding. And given seths comment on systainers to hold the boxes I can understand that preference!

There is an insert that is made for Tanos/Festool Systainers wich are compatible with ESSVE boxes. I didn’t think that ESSVE was available I’m the US.The boxes are as mentioned nice, in that you can chose to remove the lid and place it under the box itself, and then place the box in the case. Should you choose to bring just one box the lid will follow. I have decided to choose the new Festool system for my “inside” screws and the ESSVE for “outside” screws. I can get a Systainer insert for the ESSVE boxes if I like.

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“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”

This new XXL sized Systainer came as big surprise to me when I last checked Festool site. Haven't seen any comments on it on this forum, no one noticed yet?

It is out, in Europe. Most likely it is primarily made for the new polishing machines (The new machines needed a longer NEW systainer) They may also make a couple of even longer ones, so we don’t need to build plywood cases for KA-KS, UG wings and other long things..

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“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”

Hi. 3rd post here. Any word on availability of the rail system for the new recess to slide onto? I see that Bott is making something for vehicles. I Googled like crazy but haven't seen an image of it. Seems to have a way to catch the Sys3 on that back lower lip. I'm not seeing anything yet for using in workshop storage. Maybe I'm over thinking it (per usual), and it's simply expected that I'd make some ~1cm x 1cm wood/MFT rails for that slot?

Pre-apology: I'm gonna gratuitously add a photo to get used to adding images, even though you all know that recess I'm talking about.

Any word on availability of the rail system for the new recess to slide onto? I see that Bott is making something for vehicles. I Googled like crazy but haven't seen an image of it.

The rail system you're talking about is currently available for vehicle racking, I believe it's not yet available and doubt it will even be offered for in-shop racking as that's not what Bott does. For in-shop racking, Bott offers some beautiful metal stuff that's very similar to Lista but priced at an even higher level.

You may have to fab your own or some enterprising individual out there may decide to offer it.

New Systainer was specifically made to fit bott racking system. It’s crazy popular in Europe, and if I’m correct tanos partnered up with bott then creating new systainer. That’s why they all have new heights.

Hi. 3rd post here. Any word on availability of the rail system for the new recess to slide onto? I see that Bott is making something for vehicles. I Googled like crazy but haven't seen an image of it. Seems to have a way to catch the Sys3 on that back lower lip. I'm not seeing anything yet for using in workshop storage. Maybe I'm over thinking it (per usual), and it's simply expected that I'd make some ~1cm x 1cm wood/MFT rails for that slot?

Pre-apology: I'm gonna gratuitously add a photo to get used to adding images, even though you all know that recess I'm talking about. (Attachment Link)

Festool USA is slowly transitioning tools to the Systainer³. So far only the ETS 125 REQ has transitioned and we now have inventory of this sander in the Sys³. It looks like this transition will be quite slow over the next year.

Festool USA has also indicated that they have no intention of introducing any empty Systainer³ in 2020. Of course, this may change but it's the latest info I have to share.

@tsercitpo, welcome to the forum. Festool USA has indicated that the only Systainer³ we will see during 2020 will be the ones that come with tools. No other Systainer³ products will be available this year. Again, that's the latest word and is always subject to change I suppose.