Okay, I admit it, this is a cheap knock off of the "how stupid is the Emperor" thread :D

Also note that I haven't read Goto's DoW books and any examples I give here will be from the original DoW PC game.

Okay, my opinion of the Blood Ravens, and in particular their 3rd Company commander Captain Gabriel Angelos, isn't that high. Some glaring mistakes that come to mind:

1) He failed to notice that Chaos was active on the planet, despite the presence of an Inquisitor, the excavations, bloody great sacrificial altars and at least one Chaos vessel coming and going around the planet ("Captain, she bore the eight-pointed star!" :O )

2) He also failed to put two and two together when two of his marines were found "burned from the inside out" - clearly hit by a Chaos Sorcerer's magic. You'd think a Chapter priding itself on "knowing thy enemy" would have drawn the correct conclusion.

3) He failed to notice that said Chaos was corrupting his Librarian mate Isador. You'd think he'd at least launch an inquiry into who disabled his Rhinos.

4) He thought sending a small Scout squad into the middle of an Eldar base to grab the Key was a good idea

5) He then seems surprised when a squad of Warp Spiders appear and kill them ("An ambush! Foul xenos!"). Again, textbook enemy tactics that such a "knowledgeable" Chapter should have forseen.

6) He knew the Eldar were guarding a Chaos artefact, but his subsequent attack on them weakened the Eldar defences so much that Sindri was able to teleport in and nab the Key from right under their noses.

7) He ignores Farseer Macha's warnings (and the fact that all her previous ones proved true) and breaks the Maledictum, releasing a Greater Demon upon the galaxy. I'm sure everyone will thank him for that.

To quote WA:

Ulthwe Warlock - Never have I encountered such an obstinate species. The Orks are victims of their nature, but these humans are wilfully persistant and blind. How they survived...
Farseer Taldeer - Is a joke the universe shares with no-one, I'm afraid...

Chilltouch

17-09-2007, 15:17

1. Let's think about it. A world is being torn apart. People become extremely tense and reactive, their faith pushed beyond breaking point. Some of them even turn to Chaos. It would be common to see doomsday cults wandering around the streets, hysterical and butchering everyone they came across. And I think it was obvious that Chaos had an interest in the planet and he probably realized it. But like most people he expected a cult - not a large part of a Traitor Legion.

2. Orks could've also have had a little fun with him by pouring napalm down their throats when they were captive and flicked matches down their throats until they burst into flame.

3. As soon as you start turning to Chaos, you don't suddenly start sprouting tentacles or turn into a complete madman. He merely became power-hungry.

4. It is always best to at least attempt a quick, stealthy retrieval. Or would you rather begin every conflict with a massive invasion?

5. No matter how well trained you are, no one can really expect the enemy to go *bloop* and appear in the middle of your base.

6. He didn't know it was a Chaos artefact. He had no idea what it was. The first time he heard an explaination of what it was, was when it was stolen from Macha's grasp.

7. Who would you rather trust? An alien or your superior? First she was saying destroy it, then she was saying don't... Silly xenos.

ryng_sting

17-09-2007, 17:07

Because it was a PC game, not a carefully drafted novel?

Shadow_Wing

17-09-2007, 17:17

Because it was a PC game, not a carefully drafted novel?

My thoughts exactly.

CELS

17-09-2007, 18:00

So? Even if it is a PC game, it could still have a plot that makes sense. A lot of computer games do. They're called "good computer games".

Been a long while since I played it though, so I don't really remember too much.

Lord_Crull

17-09-2007, 19:31

The DoW novel actually explains 1-3 very well. In the novel he knows that Chaos is on the planet and states so, he is also informed that the Sorcerer killed the scouts one of the Blood Ravens remarkes that the scouts looked like they where killed by a Chaos Sorcerer.

codicium_aeternum

18-09-2007, 01:01

lets be honest, he didnt make brother captain by listening to the whispers of the most "trickster" xenos, aka a farseer

Lord Merlin

18-09-2007, 01:55

The character is really good, just the author sucks, you should hear some of the things said about him where I play. It's hilarious some of the things they say.

stormblade

18-09-2007, 06:21

On 6th and 7th points:

-The Eldar were first to strike and mayhap proved themselves even stupider than he was since they first tried to ambush them and later shown themselves incapable of besting the Blood Ravens.

- Standard way of dealing with treasonous xenos is blasting them into the oblivion not taking their advice.

Rotten

18-09-2007, 13:26

Or would you rather begin every conflict with a massive invasion?

OF COURSE! Who wouldn't?

Chilltouch

18-09-2007, 15:57

"Listen, guys, we can't let their general know we're here - he can escape at any moment with the object that we have been ordered to steal. Got any ide-"
"INVASION"

MadDogMike

18-09-2007, 16:43

1) He failed to notice that Chaos was active on the planet, despite the presence of an Inquisitor, the excavations, bloody great sacrificial altars and at least one Chaos vessel coming and going around the planet ("Captain, she bore the eight-pointed star!" :O )

2) He also failed to put two and two together when two of his marines were found "burned from the inside out" - clearly hit by a Chaos Sorcerer's magic. You'd think a Chapter priding itself on "knowing thy enemy" would have drawn the correct conclusion.

Uh, whaat? Last I checked he was fully aware Chaos was active on the planet after said events, that's why he ditched the fighting against the orks to go after them.

3) He failed to notice that said Chaos was corrupting his Librarian mate Isador. You'd think he'd at least launch an inquiry into who disabled his Rhinos.

Assuming he realized it was outright sabotage and not some unnoticed battle damage. And even if it was sabotage, who would you suspect; your trusted battle brother or those sneaky teleporting Eldar? As for noticing corruption in general in Isador, he knew him for a LONG time and trusted him, why should he expect that this one conflict would suddenly turn him traitor?

4) He thought sending a small Scout squad into the middle of an Eldar base to grab the Key was a good idea

Hey, better than sending a full army in if it worked, and not like the tactic didn't work out vs. the orks earlier.

5) He then seems surprised when a squad of Warp Spiders appear and kill them ("An ambush! Foul xenos!"). Again, textbook enemy tactics that such a "knowledgeable" Chapter should have forseen.

Surprised? Didn't sound like that to me so much as pissed.

6) He knew the Eldar were guarding a Chaos artefact, but his subsequent attack on them weakened the Eldar defences so much that Sindri was able to teleport in and nab the Key from right under their noses.

And he knew the Eldar were protecting the key instead of, oh, seeking it for their own use because? The Eldar made damn sure he had NO reason to trust them by their arrogance; he might have been a tad more attentive if Macha had given her little speech BEFORE she started killing his marines.

7) He ignores Farseer Macha's warnings (and the fact that all her previous ones proved true) and breaks the Maledictum, releasing a Greater Demon upon the galaxy. I'm sure everyone will thank him for that.

Again, she started shooting, no reason to trust her, etc. It was a mistake, but an honest one most people would make.