I really like this kid, fits our scheme perfectly stats are extremely impressive in college, fills a huge need and allows us to draft DB DEPTH in the later rounds rather then starters. Thoughts?

Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:35 am

rodneyfaile

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Re: Trufant at 12?

That is who I want them to draft, but I wouldn't be surprised if they went OL.

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Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:44 am

finfantrigg

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Re: Trufant at 12?

I want Him or Effiert. I believe we snag winston right before the draft. Which would allow us to go trufant in round 1 in round 2 draft OL and CB Depth.

Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:47 am

wkloiber13

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Re: Trufant at 12?

No way to Trufant at 12. I say take Lane Johnson at 12, fill our biggest need, and then take two corners in the 2nd round. Preferrably Johthan Banks and David Amerson. Both guys are big corners with excellent zone cover skills. In addition, both guys are absolute ballhawks and both have won the Jim Thorpe Award (same award as Deion Sanders, Rod Woodson, etc). We could knock out our two biggest needs in the first two rounds if we do this right. I think all three of those players will fit our system and be able to have an impact this year if we manage to get all three of them.

Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:49 pm

Kev1321

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Re: Trufant at 12?

Ansah Jordan or Vaccaro

Sat Apr 06, 2013 6:42 am

Phins Rock

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Re: Trufant at 12?

I think it's down to Trufant, Austin or a DE (probably the 2 FSU ends).

I'm not Trufant's biggest fan, but I do like him. I'd rather go elsewhere because I don't see a huge gap between him and some Day 2 guys, but I think he's definitely in play.

Sat Apr 06, 2013 2:04 pm

wkloiber13

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Re: Trufant at 12?

Why are so many on here obsessed with us drafting another DE? Between Odrick and Vernon we got pretty very solid production out of the other DE position. Production that has a good chance of improving this year. I think adding another rookie would just create an even bigger jam on the roster.

Sat Apr 06, 2013 9:18 pm

Phins Rock

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Re: Trufant at 12?

wkloiber13 wrote:

Why are so many on here obsessed with us drafting another DE? Between Odrick and Vernon we got pretty very solid production out of the other DE position. Production that has a good chance of improving this year. I think adding another rookie would just create an even bigger jam on the roster.

Because the difference between solid and elite at that position is huge.

Look at what Von Miller, Aldon Smith, JJ Watt, etc have done for their defenses....Changed the dynamic completely.

The draft isn't about filling out positions of need so that you are solid everywhere. It's about drafting the guys that will have the biggest short and long term impact. A DE is unquestionably one of those guys.

Are CB and OT bigger "needs" than DE? Yes. Would I draft either position ahead of a DE if the talent is comparible? No. Not the way things stand now.

Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:46 am

Dphins4me

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Re: Trufant at 12?

Phins Rock wrote:

Because the difference between solid and elite at that position is huge.

Look at what Von Miller, Aldon Smith, JJ Watt, etc have done for their defenses....Changed the dynamic completely.

The draft isn't about filling out positions of need so that you are solid everywhere. It's about drafting the guys that will have the biggest short and long term impact. A DE is unquestionably one of those guys.

Are CB and OT bigger "needs" than DE? Yes. Would I draft either position ahead of a DE if the talent is comparible? No. Not the way things stand now.

The fact is. Miami can go many different way at No. 12. It should be interesting. With the lack of a playmaker at No. 12 ( Don't believe Austin is under consideration by Miami at No. 12) trading down might be a smart move even if you get just a 3rd. Do not want to see them drop back as far as they did in '10, but adding a 3rd in this draft is a solid move. The players Miami should be looking at one should be there at 19 or so.

Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:03 am

wkloiber13

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Re: Trufant at 12?

Phins Rock wrote:

wkloiber13 wrote:

Why are so many on here obsessed with us drafting another DE? Between Odrick and Vernon we got pretty very solid production out of the other DE position. Production that has a good chance of improving this year. I think adding another rookie would just create an even bigger jam on the roster.

Because the difference between solid and elite at that position is huge.

Look at what Von Miller, Aldon Smith, JJ Watt, etc have done for their defenses....Changed the dynamic completely.

The draft isn't about filling out positions of need so that you are solid everywhere. It's about drafting the guys that will have the biggest short and long term impact. A DE is unquestionably one of those guys.

Are CB and OT bigger "needs" than DE? Yes. Would I draft either position ahead of a DE if the talent is comparible? No. Not the way things stand now.

So what do we do with Odrick and Vernon? These are two high draft picks that are still developing. You'd want to hinder their development by adding a third party?

My opinion about the Dolphins situation is this. If you want to build an offense the first thing you do is go get a quarterback. We did that last year. The next thing you do is get a left tackle to protect that quarterback. The third thing you do is give that quarterback a top target. The Dolphins have got Tannehill. They got him a top target. Now it's time in my opinion to get a left tackle to protect his blindside. While I was encouraged by Martin at times last year, I'm still skeptical that he's going to be our answer long term at LT. I'd rather see Miami go after someone like Joeckel or Johson in the 1st round to take over at LT and let Martin slide back over to RT.

Sun Apr 07, 2013 5:37 pm

phinsfansc

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Re: Trufant at 12?

Jared Odrick can drop down and provide pass rush at DT on rushing downs. The hope is that Vernon will take his game up another level next year.

I am on board with bringing in another pass rusher.

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Sun Apr 07, 2013 5:41 pm

Rich

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Re: Trufant at 12?

wkloiber13 wrote:

So what do we do with Odrick and Vernon? These are two high draft picks that are still developing. You'd want to hinder their development by adding a third party?

Odrick's future is at tackle with Soliai and Starks having one year left on the books.

And Vernon hasn't proven enough for the Dolphins to not feel DE is a need.

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Sun Apr 07, 2013 5:53 pm

Rich

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Re: Trufant at 12?

phinsfansc wrote:

Jared Odrick can drop down and provide pass rush at DT on rushing downs. The hope is that Vernon will take his game up another level next year.

I am on board with bringing in another pass rusher.

You can never have too many pass rushers.

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Sun Apr 07, 2013 5:54 pm

Phins Rock

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Re: Trufant at 12?

What Tony and Rich said...

DE is the second most important position on the field. Settling for solid isn't acceptable.

Sun Apr 07, 2013 5:59 pm

wkloiber13

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Re: Trufant at 12?

Rich wrote:

wkloiber13 wrote:

So what do we do with Odrick and Vernon? These are two high draft picks that are still developing. You'd want to hinder their development by adding a third party?

Odrick's future is at tackle with Soliai and Starks having one year left on the books.

And Vernon hasn't proven enough for the Dolphins to not feel DE is a need.

Vernon also hasn't played enough for the Dolphins not to be optimistic about him either. His numbers were pretty good for the amount of snaps he played. We all knew he was a project coming out of Miami. Bad coaching at the U and coming out a year early probably hindered this kid from being a 1st or 2nd round pick. I think the Dolphins are going to hold off one more year on drafting a DE in the 1st round.

I don't think the Dolphins are going to loose Starks and Soliai next year. Both players are going to be 30 next year and probably won't command that much money to keep around. If I had to guess, I think they'll keep at least one of those guys around.

While I agree that adding a nice pass rusher would be beneficial, I just don't think it's the right move this year. We badly need to find a blindside tackle to protect Tannehill. Otherwise it won't matter that we went out and spent all of this money getting him weapons.

If the Dolphins truly feel that they need to add another pass rusher to the mix, then I think the 2nd or 3rd round is a nice time to do it. But something tells me Ireland, Philbin, and Coyle are just fine with the group we have.

Sun Apr 07, 2013 5:59 pm

Rich

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Re: Trufant at 12?

wkloiber13 wrote:

But something tells me Ireland, Philbin, and Coyle are just fine with the group we have.

I think pass rush is a strong possibility. You simply can't have too many. And while I like Vernon and agree about the poor coaching at Miami, he's still gotta show it and hasn't.

It's the same logic as Martin. You are one of the guys that wanted to see him at LT and defended him. You even argued he played much better at LT (which he didn't). Why stunt his growth by drafting another LT? Let's see what he has at LT this year.

I mean, he's shown as much as Vernon, so why hurt his feelings by drafting another LT?

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Sun Apr 07, 2013 6:03 pm

Finhead34

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Re: Trufant at 12?

I think pass rush is a strong possibility. You simply can't have too many.

I can certainly see this happening Rich and I might be of the minority, but if Miami trades in a reasonable way to get Albert, you solve the LT issue and you can afford Martin to be on the right side and IF Louis is healthy there is another young talent that started many NFL games for Chicago that can provide a steadier protection for Tannehill, PLUS, Miami can still IMO get decent value in the 2nd/3rd round for another offensive lineman.

Been doing more research on Ezekiel "aka" Ziggy Ansah & IF Miami takes him, the kid definitely has a ton of raw talent that can get after the QB. The question of course will lie in Miami's belief in his abilities to pull the trigger at pick #12, but I wouldn't be surprised.

It is intriguing to think of Wake and Ansah lining up opposite of each other as inevitably you cannot double team both all the time and let's face it a great pass rush makes even parts of a mediocre secondary look even better.

Sun Apr 07, 2013 6:17 pm

wkloiber13

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Re: Trufant at 12?

Rich wrote:

wkloiber13 wrote:

But something tells me Ireland, Philbin, and Coyle are just fine with the group we have.

I think pass rush is a strong possibility. You simply can't have too many. And while I like Vernon and agree about the poor coaching at Miami, he's still gotta show it and hasn't.

It's the same logic as Martin. You are one of the guys that wanted to see him at LT and defended him. You even argued he played much better at LT (which he didn't). Why stunt his growth by drafting another LT? Let's see what he has at LT this year.

I mean, he's shown as much as Vernon, so why hurt his feelings by drafting another LT?

I'm only a fan of us trading up for Joeckel if he falls. Mainy because he's so familiar with our staff and Tannehill. I think he's the perfect fit if we want to replace Jake Long. But as far as Martin goes, I'm still hopeful he's been working hard this offseason to bulk up and develop his upper body strength. If he's done that, then I think he has the footwork and speed to handle the job at LT. As far as Fisher and Johnson go, I don't see them as upgrades over Martin, or locks to take the LT spot. I think Johson at 12 would wind up being our RT this year, which is why I'm ok with the Dolphins taking him at 12, but not a huge fan of trading up for him.

As far as Vernon goes, I think this is his make or break year. I think you increase his reps if he deserves it, and hopefully the kid improves and finishes with 5+ sacks on the season. If Odrick adds another 5+ sacks splitting reps with Vernon then I think us getting 10+ sacks out of the duo is more than enough, or equal to what we'd get if we added a pass rusher at 12.

Sun Apr 07, 2013 7:25 pm

Kev1321

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Re: Trufant at 12?

An underclassman should be at full potential in year two?

Sun Apr 07, 2013 7:30 pm

Finhead34

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Re: Trufant at 12?

One way or another, I hope Miami adds another rusher to bring heat to the QB. I am not sold on Vernon just yet and I certainly would rather see Odrick at DT vs. DE in fact I don't like Odrick at all playing Defensive End. However, I can see promise in Vernon, just not sure if he will become an elite rusher. This season will tell a lot more for him.

I actually hope that Josh Kaddu can still come around at 6'3 245 pounds as an edge rusher.

If Miami had to sign Abraham or Freeney for a season that wouldn't be a bad idea. IF it is after the draft and if they can get them for minimal and for situational pass rushing only.

Sun Apr 07, 2013 7:32 pm

wkloiber13

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Re: Trufant at 12?

Finhead34 wrote:

One way or another, I hope Miami adds another rusher to bring heat to the QB. I am not sold on Vernon just yet and I certainly would rather see Odrick at DT vs. DE in fact I don't like Odrick at all playing Defensive End. However, I can see promise in Vernon, just not sure if he will become an elite rusher. This season will tell a lot more for him.

I actually hope that Josh Kaddu can still come around at 6'3 245 pounds as an edge rusher.

If Miami had to sign Abraham or Freeney for a season that wouldn't be a bad idea. IF it is after the draft and if they can get them for minimal and for situational pass rushing only.

So where does that leave Vernon? Isn't that his role right now?Don't you think Vernon has a solid chance at improving this year, and if so, why wouldn't we give him a chance to prove that he can handle more snaps and provide us with not only a pass rush, but also in terms of run support?

Remember, Wake only had 5.5 sacks and 23 tackles his first year with us. His second year is when he busted out. Maybe Vernon has a breakout season this year and takes over the other DE spot?

I'm not trying to say Vernon is another Cam Wake. I'm just pointing out that similar to Wake, he's a project that if we let develop, he has the potential to do great things.

Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:03 pm

Makchell

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Re: Trufant at 12?

You can never have enough pass rushers. Keep them fresh by rotating and have depth for injuries.

Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:24 pm

rodneyfaile

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Re: Trufant at 12?

I think he is a great fit, and I understand #12 might be a little high for Trufant, but if the Dolphins don't take him at #12, how far could he fall? I don't think there is any way he would be there in the 2nd round. Do you think they would trade DOWN in the draft and take Trufant?

I think he is a great fit, and I understand #12 might be a little high for Trufant, but if the Dolphins don't take him at #12, how far could he fall? I don't think there is any way he would be there in the 2nd round. Do you think they would trade DOWN in the draft and take Trufant?

Trading down to get him would probably be an option, but I'm not sure how much further down they could trade and still ensure that they get him.