ccw body armor.

what's going to FEED those besieging you? :-) Actually, a small group of looters could just now and then position a sniper in your area, and deny you
access to anything outside of your "castle". Indeed, he can shoot one of you any time you expose yourselves, at a window, etc, too, of course.
Spouting works a lot better than hydroponics, must faster turn around time, lots less hassle. Who says that you will have water to waste on growing
stuff with it? After a year of shtf, nearly everyone will be dead, so it will be fairly safe to again have garden plots, if they are small, scattered
and well hidden.

Originally posted by single
I've been prepared for over 30 years, sonny. :-) If you want to believe that dogs can't be tricked, silently shot, poisoned, fed meatballs full of
broken glass, etc, go for it. I was a Military police dog handler, and I know better.

Im sure they can, i never clamed they were supper dogs. hey what if these guys get there hands on motors and bomb us to hell or have a gunship and
blow us to hell or have ray guns and have invisable suits so they can sneek up on us and get us.

There are alot of what ifs and factors that come into play but most likely non of this will happen. Its going to be hard to shoot a dog with a
silencer from 100 yards away, thats if you can get a silencer into the US, or throw a glass filled "meatball" 100 yards away with out alarming the
dogs or LP, whos going to want to throw good food anyways in a SHTF world.

Just like no body is going to have motors or gunships coming at us.

yeah defences can fail but when you have alot of them up it makes it harder to get buy without being spotted. and if one person did get by, are they
going to be able to take on the 30+ of us? or if a mob did rush the fences. are they going to be able to make it to the stone wall up hill while being
fired at from a defencive postion? NO, we are loaded to the teeth.

Originally posted by single
what's going to FEED those besieging you? :-) Actually, a small group of looters could just now and then position a sniper in your area, and deny you
access to anything outside of your "castle". Indeed, he can shoot one of you any time you expose yourselves, at a window, etc, too, of course.
Spouting works a lot better than hydroponics, must faster turn around time, lots less hassle. Who says that you will have water to waste on growing
stuff with it? After a year of shtf, nearly everyone will be dead, so it will be fairly safe to again have garden plots, if they are small, scattered
and well hidden.

thats why you have clock work patrols and your own snipers on the fence.

just saying.

what if, what if, what if, what if...... gets old. its all been thought of already by our group

Got a word for you . Hydroponics. Not just a dirty word, describing the methodologies of less than scrupulous purveyors of questionable substances,
hydroponics allows for the growth of crops indoors. While I realise that creating a structure to house a decent sized crop would have its issues,
there are also ways that hydroponic process can be used to accelerate the growth of a given crop.

And since the only thing that holds most people back from creating sizeable structures on their property is material cost and zoning laws, you need
not consider these, since in a true SHTF scenario, the last thing you will be worried about is the legality of your material aquisition policy, and
the possibility of councilmen bashing down your door to serve you with a deconstruction notice!

Alternatively , if you have a basement, or the possibility of digging one without collapsing or weakening the structure of your dwelling, that can
sometimes be preferable to a surface structure, since surface structures can be difficult to insulate. The only thing you would need to do is ensure
that you have a good and reliable powersource for the lighting and ventilation of your hydroponics facility.

The thing is, having your crops out in the air would of course be better in terms of keeping things natural,but it would leave your crop open to
chemical or biological attack. In the event of seige , you need to have as much access to raw food stuffs as you can get , and burying your crop and
your food stores underground and out of site, means that you would be more difficult to dislodge in the event of a serious encirclement by hostile
forces. This would mean that the possibility of being starved out would be greatly reduced.

Just a thought. I will be going now.

these are all good points, the most likely would be crop burning or shooting our cattle, we have 50 of them. and that has not been addressed very
well. the only thing we came up with was not putting it all in one spot.

As for fires we have a 6 mile 6in PVC pipe we just installed underground that runs up the Mt. to a lake and is feed by gravity. so if a fire did brake
out we could put it out fast with the fire hoses we have.

This pipe is also our life line to our primary clean water sorce. secondary is the 6 pounds and the river 1/2 mile down Mt.

The fact that you have good water access,and not just one source but several secondaries, is a definite asset. As long as you can switch them in the
event of someone posioning the well so to speak, you should be fine with that. But the thing is you have to think about the motivations of a beseiging
force in a SHTF situation.

Food is scarce, access to clean water difficult for most. Guns and other weapons would likely be easier to locate than basic staples. This would
apply to any individual or group used to city life more than to others, since they would have less natural affinity with and capacity to use nature to
thier advantage, and set up crops of thier own. This would make them desperate to get hold of something to eat, to drink. In that scenario of course,
they are unlikely to destroy any source of those things that they come across.

But they may be vindictive enough to think " well if Im not getting any, and Im gonna die, I dont see why you lot ought to be able to have it
either" and destroy the lot! .Thats why masking the presence of resources in such a scenario is , in my opinion , a must. If your home or base
appears to be a small holding containing persons who are just scratching out a crappy living in a difficult situation, then the location is less
likely to be assaulted by determined scavengers.

That means that the only motivation anyone would reasonably have to approach your location, would be curiosity, or hostile or nefarious intent toward
your personal safety or the security of your possesions, such as they may be.

In theory , in this scenario it would be best to ensure that every little thing that you do to improve your security , is coupled with making it
appear as if nothing much is going on at your location. Obviously you want to look occupied, so that squatters dont get the idea they can move in,
because that could create an unfortunate scenario, but keeping the extent of your sucessful survival on the down low, would keep you safer than all
the intersecting lanes of fire, walls, fences, earthworks, vehicle baffles, and military know how you can name.

cattle just DRAW enemies. you can bet that half of your 30 won''t show up, and 1/3rd or more will be sick, injured, utterly distracted by their
loved ones. That's why dependents aren't allowed into war zones, you know. They render the soldiers ineffective. Large groups just contain your
worst enemies. You can't get 5 guys to agree on a single type of rifle and load, and you 'think" that everyone is going to agree on who the boss
is, who pulls guard duty, etc.? What a laugh!

patrols just let your people get picked off easily, and movement just draws attention. You'd need more like 100 soldiers, without dependents to do
what you think you are going to do. It's not gonna happen. Stick to just your nuclear family. You will be lucky if you get all of them to a safe
area, stash enough food for them, hide them in a dugout, and keep them disciplined (since they AINT now, for sure) to keep quiet, for months on end,
never go out in the daylight, etc. One of them will screw up, and get all of you killed, most likely.

Originally posted by wonner
cattle just DRAW enemies. you can bet that half of your 30 won''t show up, and 1/3rd or more will be sick, injured, utterly distracted by their
loved ones. That's why dependents aren't allowed into war zones, you know. They render the soldiers ineffective. Large groups just contain your
worst enemies. You can't get 5 guys to agree on a single type of rifle and load, and you 'think" that everyone is going to agree on who the boss
is, who pulls guard duty, etc.? What a laugh!

patrols just let your people get picked off easily, and movement just draws attention. You'd need more like 100 soldiers, without dependents to do
what you think you are going to do. It's not gonna happen. Stick to just your nuclear family. You will be lucky if you get all of them to a safe
area, stash enough food for them, hide them in a dugout, and keep them disciplined (since they AINT now, for sure) to keep quiet, for months on end,
never go out in the daylight, etc. One of them will screw up, and get all of you killed, most likely.

haha, whatever dude, my family members wont get me killed. we play war games and practice tatics all the time. hell i bet you my sister can group hits
closer then you can. I would not pick anyone else other then my family to have my back. you see, my familys not weak like yours might be or the
average joes family. you must be from england or france.

most our crew will make it because we all know the signs and triggers to leave before SHTF.

Patrols get you picked off? what do you think this is iraq or something? lol you have very poor logic

you cant have a army of 100 men, the cost to get that much food is outrages and you cant hide in a hole like a coward like you want to do. Its highly
unlikely we will incounter any type of organized bandits as we are out in the middle of no where.

you need cattle, goats, chickens, and pigs for food and wealth after the SHTF.

sorry buddy, hidding in a hole in the fetal postion is not for. it might be for you, but not for me.

I seriously doubt that your sister can outgroup a guy like him. Anyway, slowfire means virtually nothing in SD shooting. It's what you can do in 1
second or less that matters. Most people can't do anything that fast, except scream, faint or wet themselves.

Originally posted by requirement
I seriously doubt that your sister can outgroup a guy like him. Anyway, slowfire means virtually nothing in SD shooting. It's what you can do in 1
second or less that matters. Most people can't do anything that fast, except scream, faint or wet themselves.

o yeah, you guys hangout? for all you know he has never held a gun in his hands in his life. Im done with you trolls. always trying to bet someone
down.

I can tell by his posts that he's the real deal. There's never been a woman who amounted to much with a gun on her own, since Annie Oakley. Some
have had Daddy, hubby, or some GUY do everything for them, from casting to loading to smithing, to picking up the brass and loading the mags, doping
the wind, taught her every little thing, paid for it all, never let her fire a shot without ear and eye protection, never let her make a mistake, and
the minute he quit "pushing", she quit. Just look at Robbie Leatham's wife. She is the only female to ever post an A class score in an IPSC match
of any import, and the minute she got pregnant with her first kid, that was the end of her shooting of matches.

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