Those that are interested in facts and not self-serving propaganda would like to know that, as urbanization proceeds, caste barriers have close to disappeared in the cities. I myself am aware of several inter-caste marriages, some involving persons of ex-lower castes. It is ludicrous to associate the word lower with the said persons though, considering their educational and financial status.

Problems exist, but are much diminished compared to earlier. Give it another generation. A nation of a billion people is like an aircraft carrier. It can't turn on a dime.

“@nkab:
How can you endorse 'Third Partition' theory and comparing India to Russia. Don't we know what happened to Soviet states after country broke up? “
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I did not compare India to Russia as such.

The purpose of Third Partition is not to weaken the present India state in terms of its military strength or space/ nuclear technology advances. For that reason alone I suggested a dominant new nation of partition, possibly the nation made of current ruling class or caste, to assume the bulk of present India’s defense assets, much like Russia assumed the bulk of former USSR military might for CIS. No other significance was attached to such paraphrasing. It’s as simple as that

The purpose of Third Partition is not to “divide and conquer” as was in the old days of colonialism, or to disintegrate India proper’s current military prowess as some might fear being conspired to.

They have nothing to do with resolving the harm of inhumane caste practices.

How can you endorse 'Third Partition' theory and comparing India to Russia. Don't we know what happened to Soviet states after country broke up? All states as well as Russia went bust and bankrupt overnight. Rouble fell to unprecedented lows, and still hasn't gained world's respect or value. In central Asia, ethnic riots and cleansing still prevails, ex. Krgyzstan. We all know how prosperous ex-Soviet states are after 20 yrs of partition, don't we?

In fact, Pakistan had two partitions, India only one. So if Pakistan undergoes a third one; world will take a respite. All the terrorist attacks in the world (and it's not just rhetoric, but public opinion across the world and a fact), leads to one way or another to Pakistan or its border with Afghanistan. The state of Pakistan was created as an Islamist nation, is now no more than a puppet under Military dictatorship, and has lost all its creativity and entrepreneurship. It's high time that Pakistan is divided into Sindh, Punjab, NWFP & Baluchistan so that its citizens can live in peace.

"He is thw worst violator of every norms and rules in the country with impunity as he has is protron, protector and saviour. Under these powerful people cover of democracy they are wrecking its foundation beyond measure."
**** *****

The portion above of my post under quote and unquote have number of typographical mistakes.

The actual position should be substituted as follows:

"He is the worst violator of every norm and rule in the country with impunity as he has patrons, protectors and saviours everywhere. Under these people with democracy as a cover, they are wrecking its very foundation beyond measure."

As a foreigner with Indian friends I would say that for a people with apparently the highest IQ score in the word, the existence still of this cast system in the 21st century proves that IQ test scores should not be taken seriously!

"Those countries have not derived from caste system the same degree of advantages which India has derived."

No elaboration is warranted hereafter, I guess. Among the colonial rulers too there were admirers of caste. An ICS officer and judge of Calcutta High Court in nineteenth century, Sir George Birdwood paid his loudest compliment by observing,

“So long as the Hindoos hold to the caste system, India will remain India; but from the day they break from it, there will be no more India. That glorious peninsula will be degraded to the position of a bitter “East End” of the Anglo-Saxon Empire.”

While quoting the High Court Judge, Nehru does not refute him; rather his comment thereto is baffling.

India must come out of hypocrisy. Sixteen Brahmins have been packed in a council of 33 ministers by a Brahmin Chief Minister Buddhadeb Bhattacharya in West Bengal, nonetheless anatagonists of caste did not find anything unpleasant, much less shocking in his action. He runs one of the most incompetent governments in India.

The concept of unearned previliges ingrained in Indian mindset and psyche need to be removed, lock, stock and barrrel. Caste allows it. Similarly deprivation too is ingrained in the same mindset.
The democratic format has been used as a shelter of all misdeeds by a small section leading it to a breaking point. India, speaking frankly, is a failed state, we agree or not, like or not. The weak is law abiding, obedient, and observes the rules of discipline. The powerful and influential are most indisciplined, arrogant, obnoxious to the society and interest of the country. He is thw worst violator of every norms and rules in the country with impunity as he has is protron, protector and saviour. Under these powerful people cover of democracy they are wrecking its foundation beyond measure.

We cant ill afford to disagree India is not one nation. Many nations are living in one geographical area. Every caste is actually like a nation. Caste is harmful. So why enumeration should be?

I see that the usual 50 centists are peddling the usual CCP propaganda. nkab's statements are, as I have mentioned before a regurgitation of the imperialist CCP strategy of undermining India as the only regional entity that does not kowtow to the CCP.

India must ally with other victims of CCP aggression such as Taiwan, Japan, Vietnam etc. I suggest the provision of nuclear weapons to Taiwan is a suitable first step, given the CCP's proliferation to it's sycophant Pakistan.

If India cannot let go of the Caste society and replace it with a Capitalistic class society, then let the Daliar rebuilt his Medieval Theocracy in the fertile ground here so that the lower untouchable Castes will be more readily acceptable to their Karmic fates. All other solution like positive discrimination will bring about social conflicts between the 3000+ castes.

Mark Twain, American author:
"India is, the cradle of the human race, the birthplace of human speech, the mother of history, the grandmother of legend, and the great grand mother of tradition. our most valuable and most instructive materials in the history of man are treasured up in India only."

The problem is the tradition part of it - India has set tradition like Caste into concrete , and it takes a long time to change tradition.

1.. 'Brilliant British trained elites like Nehru' NKAB - you must be British to think such. In my mind Nehru was an idiot , trained in the ways of "fabianism" (if you don't know look it up.)

The man picked a fight with China , for no understandable reason at all. Made India a socialist country , that held back the country for decades. before independence , our unthinking saint ' The Mahatma' made him the leader of the party, against the democratic wishes of
the Congress party.
Basically - just an idiot.
Now Singh - I have a lot of time for despite his Socialist tendencies.

2.. the Nehru/Gandhi dynasty have had several breaks from their Dynastic traditions , and unlike JAPAN until recently , the country has two other parties in power .

As they say - Sir, put your brain into gear before you put your foot into your mouth.

BACK to the subject at hand - yes caste is a terrible issue in India - and has been shown in the USA , it does now always get better with positive discrimination . Positive discrimination only makes people more and more dependent on government for any largess.
Yes anti-discrimination laws do improve matters , BUT only if they are implemented.
The real problem is that the Indian court system is very bureaucratically slow ,and does not have to courage to force implementation of any anti-discrimination laws.

may i recommend, sir that you read before you write - directed to NKAB

“Why are Indians here giving time and space to this Troll NKab?
Just report him to the site admins, as I have done, and they will ban him from the site. If he comes back, repeat the same procedure.”
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Such is the fallacious folly of some posters who mistakenly think they are at the center in the cocoon of their world of thinking, when there are Economist readers in greater many numbers from other great countries like Nepal, Pakistan, the US, UK, China, Sri Lanka and of Europeans to name a few who are interested in the solution to problems of Indian caste as delineated in this article, because the whole global village is getting more and more intertwined as many would argue.

I think the idea of inter-caste marriage some one echoed on this forum is great. Taking place in scale and in time, it will wash away many untrue sotries painting India as a poor place to visit (every developing country with no exception is poor, it's a problem not not a shame) when India is indeed such a wonderful place to visit (and I don't just mean the usual tourist beats), it may even render the Third Partition unnecessary.

That way (inter-caste marriage carried out in earnest), peace at last in India with itself. And that’s good business and good for money making for everyone.

Sadly, the Indian media, therefore, the international media, are keeping alive the worst possible versions of life in India. Don't get me wrong. Life is hard for the poor in India, so it is for the poor all over the world. Nor do I deny that governments must help the weaker sections of society.

But having lived and worked in half-a-dozen countries, I can recognise the exaggerated mourning and hyper-ventilation of the Indian media.

I give the following example:

Accompanied by senior officers of a State Government and some private sector people, I went to a rural part of South India. At the local tea shop we were served tea in plastic cups because all the glass tumblers were in use.

A week later The Hindu newspaper carried a report complaining that the Dalits of the very same area we visited were being served tea in plastic cups in the local tea shops. The Hindu is one of those in Indian Media which loves 'Caste Stories'.

I wrote to the editor narrating our experience a week earlier in the same area and asked him / her if their reporter had verified the facts adequately. I never got a reply nor did the paper publish my letter.

In 2002 / 3 this newspaper published FIVE prominent items on the 'caste system' in a matter of Seven weeks, several of them written by two individuals, one a professor in Andhra and another a Swedish lady who goes by the name of Omvedt.

There is a 'caste grievance' industry out there, egged on by several 'casteist' political parties. They all live in their own ideological world, much as the darling of the Indian media, Suzanna Arundhati Roy does. They would quote Manu Smriti, mostly wrongly, because they had never read the ancient work - certainly not in the original.

In the meanwhile, groups like the Gujjars of Rajasthan launch costly agitations to be classified under 'Scheduled Tribes', whilst their rivals, the Meenas, resist such company for them in the S.T. list.

In adopting the principle of 'Divide and Rule', some Indian politicians have already put the cleverest of colonial British rulers to shame.

I very strongly second Vijay Pandit on Intercaste marriages. Majhe hero and heroines out of those who find a bond togather outside caste. One generation will make caste discrimination history.

I also suggest bring out the Hindu dieties from every Sanctum Sanctorums and place them on the highest pedestal and mountains around. Let every one irrespective of caste have his darshan and his chance of paying his reverence with a regulating priest

And yes this will not harm either India or Hindusim. Hinduism has lived for 5 millinieums., this eternal flame of vedic knowledge will go on for ever. Let the beholders of knowledge be called brahmins whatever their birth.

I agree with the Indian government's decision to go for a caste-based census. Primarily, its goal seems to be to obtain updated figures for the numbers of Backward Castes/Scheduled Castes/Tribes and OBCs. The current affirmative action programs are based on data from the 1931 census.
Clearly, having more precise data will enable the government to evolve more realistic & effective policies.
Political parties will try to extract mileage from the results, but it will be better for Indian society as a whole in the long run.
At least I hope so.

contrary to what you say, Other Backward Classes' performance has consistently improved, because of reservation or positive discrimination as you call it. Tamilnadu is the best example. In this State, OBC reservation has been introduced much earlier than the Central Government, and we have records showing that the gap in performance between reserved and unreserved students have been progressively diminishing.

Some here just don’t seem to appreciate the severity of caste problems that’s holding back their country’s advancement, if their foul mouthed verbal abuses and personal insults hurling out here (although being deleted by Moderator) are of any guide.

It’s perfectly not out of ordinary that there is a fraction of thee types of posters with unhealthy tendency to live in cocoon of pitiful and laughable sense of superiority arrogance against lower caste/ class while smarting himself from inferiority complex as a result of being discriminated against in the Western world.

But such is the sorry state for them, proving that a ‘perfect’ designer curse casted years ago in the years of colonialism is tragically and sadly still working against them.

They should snap out (or deprogrammed) of it quick to avoid the kind of Economist criticism description of:

“SIXTY years after India’s constitution banned caste discrimination, Hinduism’s millennia-old hierarchy retains a tight grip. Lonely-hearts ads in the newspapers are classified by caste and sub-caste. Brahmins, at the top, dominate many professions. There are still hundreds of “honour killings” by which families avenge inter-caste marriages and liaisons. Caste discrimination is still drearily evident in the wretched lives of dalits, formerly “untouchables”, who remain India’s poorest and least educated people”