Smart way to do it: "Hey Americans, we need to cut costs, so we're going to go back to the good old days of passing through metal detectors at the airport. No gate rape, no nude-o-scopes, no obsessing about four-ounce shampoo bottles. Should require less equipment and fewer agents, and raise an already infinitesimal risk only slightly."

How our government does it: "Enjoy your four-hour wait to have a thug feel you up and root through your stuff."

GAT_00:The Stealth Hippopotamus: Endive Wombat: I'm just gonna ask the question that I think sounds a bit conspiracyish, but needs to be asked...

Could some of these delays, shut downs, and the like that are coming from the sequester be caused by those actually writing the schedules of the employees? So, purposely under-scheduling to get a point across or "protest"/prove a point?

I know it sounds a bit nuts, but I can totally see this happening.

Given the fact that most of the sequester cuts are smaller than the annual budget increase? Yeah I'm going with political theater

Tons of pretty graphs

You know, I was thinking about writing an actual explanation about how since this is mid-year, forced across the board cut that you simply can't pick and choose programs, pointing out how people are being forced to take unpaid days and all of that, but I realized, what the fark is the point? You don't give a good goddamn about any of that. Not for a second. You don't give a shiat about any of the cuts, or what they're going to do. They're perfectly good, except when it's convenient to blame Obama, then those exact same cuts are suddenly terrible.

So instead I'll just wish something terrible happens to you that can somehow be traced to sequester cuts. It's more likely to yield results than trying for a discussion.

GAT_00:wildcardjack: For some reason I studied and learned to be an Air Traffic Controller. Lo and behold the entire time I was training the FAA wasn't authorized as an agency and wasn't hiring controllers. I get my CTO license the same month the FAA get reauthorized, about 90 days before my 32nd birthday when I become too old for the FAA.

I've felt bitter towards the people that told me to go study ATC, and walked out on that private student loan and I think they've let it go because I'm not part of the lawsuits. But this whole sequester mess makes me glad I don't have a federal job. I think it might even be full on schadenfreude.

Yes, you deluded little fool. This entire thing is completely orchestrated just to get the FAA back for not hiring you. Goddamn do you suffer from megalomania.

Endive Wombat:I'm just gonna ask the question that I think sounds a bit conspiracyish, but needs to be asked...

Could some of these delays, shut downs, and the like that are coming from the sequester be caused by those actually writing the schedules of the employees? So, purposely under-scheduling to get a point across or "protest"/prove a point?

I know it sounds a bit nuts, but I can totally see this happening.

Because TSA managers are self-sacrificing political activists who don't mind poor performance evaluations if they can make a point?

netizencain:Fear. It's how you control a population. Fear of communism. Fear of climate change. Fear of the economy. Politicians use fear in order to create new laws and expand their control of the population. The media uses fear to generate views and increase advertising revenue.

Abe Vigoda's Ghost:The Federal Aviation Administration reported Monday there were no significant flight delays in either Los Angeles or Chicago.

Non-story. Move along.

You didn't read enough of TFA: CBP said in a statement later Monday that weekend delays in Los Angeles and Chicago were caused by "reduced primary booth staffing" because of cuts to overtime. CBP said wait times for passengers on 56 arriving flights at John F. Kennedy International in New York exceeded two hours, and passengers on 14 flights waited more than three hours. Delays at Miami International Airport of more than two hours were reported for 51 flights, and passengers from four flights experienced waits of about three hours. CBP said such waits were longer than usual.

That's determined by the weather/visibility, not whether there is a controller.ATC's main job is to provide separation between aircraft. With on-board collision-avoidance equipment and radar, that role is somewhat redundant.There are about 12,000 public-use airports in the US. Only 400 have control towers.Most flying is done without air traffic controllers.

skylabdown:Well, you better believe there's PLENTY of cash at DHS to buy 2,700 MRAPS though.... You know, because we need 2,700 MRAPS on the streets of America filled with para-military, trigger happy, goose-stepping goons more than we need efficient airports.Nothing to see here citizen.

Maybe the Government needs those so they can sweep high-crime ,drug-gang controlled areas of major cities and arrest/kill all the illegal gang members/drug dealers like MS-13.

jaybeezey:Endive Wombat: I'm just gonna ask the question that I think sounds a bit conspiracyish, but needs to be asked...

Could some of these delays, shut downs, and the like that are coming from the sequester be caused by those actually writing the schedules of the employees? So, purposely under-scheduling to get a point across or "protest"/prove a point?

I know it sounds a bit nuts, but I can totally see this happening.

What's telling here is that the only cuts have been to overtime.

So you have to ask yourself these questions:

1) How much was being spent in OT pay?2) How much would it have cost them to just hire more people to provide the needed coverage at regular time hours?3) How many terrorist attempts have they foiled in the time since implementation?4) Are they needed at all?

1) and 2) are knowable.

3) is unmeasurable by any reasonable measure therefore requiring logical fallacy to draw any conclusions.

4) the "they" you are referring to is the TSA (I assume). We do know that airport security is required. Whether it be federally administered or privately administered is the question. Right now by law it's federally administered. In either case they're needed. I doubt you'll find many advocates wanting to fly without security.

Now, to think about this in the right way, the government is subsidizing everyone's air travel in this country. If people wanted shorter lines at the airport then they should be willing to pay for it in their ticket costs. Security, fuel, maintenance, personnel... Those are all costs to doing business.

So the real question here to ask is - how much economic benefit does the rest of the country get by having the federal government pay for the security and ATC components of those costs rather than letting those costs pass directly to the consumer?

So if you're a fan of smaller government, the choice for you here should be simple. Smaller government as long as you're willing to pay for it.

msbav8r:ACunningPlan: Just let them come in on instrumentsThat's determined by the weather/visibility, not whether there is a controller.ATC's main job is to provide separation between aircraft. With on-board collision-avoidance equipment and radar, that role is somewhat redundant.There are about 12,000 public-use airports in the US. Only 400 have control towers.Most flying is done without air traffic controllers.

Whatthefark:I just watched the episode of Breaking Bad where the planes collided in mid air due to an ATC not paying attention, so I'm getting a kick out of this article.

Even though it's quite rare, understaffing, poor training, and poor tracking equipment design were the cause of a mid-air collision in 2006. It was a collision that occured in open airspace, nowhere near an airport. One plane involved was able to land safely at a military airfield, the other instantly plunged to earth from 37,000 feet. But that was in Brazil, so most people think that nothing like that could happen here.

/one of the flights was all Americans//but they survived, because, USA!

msbav8r:ACunningPlan: Just let them come in on instrumentsThat's determined by the weather/visibility, not whether there is a controller.ATC's main job is to provide separation between aircraft. With on-board collision-avoidance equipment and radar, that role is somewhat redundant.There are about 12,000 public-use airports in the US. Only 400 have control towers.Most flying is done without air traffic controllers.

Sorry, mine was an Airplane quote. But, in my ignorance of how this stuff actually works, I did think all planes were under the control of ATCs so thank you for that information:)

netizencain:Fear. It's how you control a population. Fear of communism. Fear of climate change. Fear of the economy. Politicians use fear in order to create new laws and expand their control of the population. The media uses fear to generate views and increase advertising revenue.

jaybeezey:Endive Wombat: I'm just gonna ask the question that I think sounds a bit conspiracyish, but needs to be asked...

What's telling here is that the only cuts have been to overtime.

So you have to ask yourself these questions:

1) How much was being spent in OT pay?2) How much would it have cost them to just hire more people to provide the needed coverage at regular time hours?3) How many terrorist attempts have they foiled in the time since implementation?4) Are they needed at all?

5) What are they gonna say when a belly bomber hits a line backed up from the the check-point at the airport?

/What? It's not gonna hit a building? Neither is any plane in my town...Why am I irradiated again?

Void_Beavis:jaybeezey: Endive Wombat: I'm just gonna ask the question that I think sounds a bit conspiracyish, but needs to be asked...

Could some of these delays, shut downs, and the like that are coming from the sequester be caused by those actually writing the schedules of the employees? So, purposely under-scheduling to get a point across or "protest"/prove a point?

I know it sounds a bit nuts, but I can totally see this happening.

What's telling here is that the only cuts have been to overtime.

So you have to ask yourself these questions:

1) How much was being spent in OT pay?2) How much would it have cost them to just hire more people to provide the needed coverage at regular time hours?3) How many terrorist attempts have they foiled in the time since implementation?4) Are they needed at all?

1) and 2) are knowable.

3) is unmeasurable by any reasonable measure therefore requiring logical fallacy to draw any conclusions.

4) the "they" you are referring to is the TSA (I assume). We do know that airport security is required. Whether it be federally administered or privately administered is the question. Right now by law it's federally administered. In either case they're needed. I doubt you'll find many advocates wanting to fly without security.

Now, to think about this in the right way, the government is subsidizing everyone's air travel in this country. If people wanted shorter lines at the airport then they should be willing to pay for it in their ticket costs. Security, fuel, maintenance, personnel... Those are all costs to doing business.

So the real question here to ask is - how much economic benefit does the rest of the country get by having the federal government pay for the security and ATC components of those costs rather than letting those costs pass directly to the consumer?

So if you're a fan of smaller government, the choice for you here should be simple. Smaller government as long as you're willing to pay for it.

Void_Beavis:jaybeezey: Endive Wombat: I'm just gonna ask the question that I think sounds a bit conspiracyish, but needs to be asked...

Could some of these delays, shut downs, and the like that are coming from the sequester be caused by those actually writing the schedules of the employees? So, purposely under-scheduling to get a point across or "protest"/prove a point?

I know it sounds a bit nuts, but I can totally see this happening.

What's telling here is that the only cuts have been to overtime.

So you have to ask yourself these questions:

1) How much was being spent in OT pay?2) How much would it have cost them to just hire more people to provide the needed coverage at regular time hours?3) How many terrorist attempts have they foiled in the time since implementation?4) Are they needed at all?

1) and 2) are knowable.

3) is unmeasurable by any reasonable measure therefore requiring logical fallacy to draw any conclusions.

4) the "they" you are referring to is the TSA (I assume). We do know that airport security is required. Whether it be federally administered or privately administered is the question. Right now by law it's federally administered. In either case they're needed. I doubt you'll find many advocates wanting to fly without security.

Now, to think about this in the right way, the government is subsidizing everyone's air travel in this country. If people wanted shorter lines at the airport then they should be willing to pay for it in their ticket costs. Security, fuel, maintenance, personnel... Those are all costs to doing business.

So the real question here to ask is - how much economic benefit does the rest of the country get by having the federal government pay for the security and ATC components of those costs rather than letting those costs pass directly to the consumer?

So if you're a fan of smaller government, the choice for you here should be simple. Smaller government as long as you're willing to pay for it.

netizencain:Fear. It's how you control a population. Fear of communism. Fear of climate change. Fear of the economy. Politicians use fear in order to create new laws and expand their control of the population. The media uses fear to generate views and increase advertising revenue.

And every single person at an airport has no more incentive to do their job quickly, efficently, or with speed. "Oh, it's supposed to be slower now? No problem."

My husband is an ATC that will be let off without pay due to this ridiculousness. Despite the very real economic impact it will leave on our family, we are even angrier that they have not even looked at reforming well-known chronically abused entitlements such as welfare. Along the same lines, why cut our teachers? Half of American kids can't even read. And why is Congress getting a RAISE during all this? Congressmen and senators make $174,000 a year and will see an extra $900 in their annual pay packages before taxes next year. Maybe they should forfeit it too.

Eddie Adams from Torrance:HoustonNick: This is just another attempt by O'Bama and his minions to scare the nation. Check the FAA's website which shows that everything is ontime (15 mins or less) http://www.fly.faa.gov/flyfaa/usmap.jsp">http://www.fly.faa.gov/flyfa a/usmap.jsp

Does that map show the delays that passengers are experiencing getting through security?

Napolitano in the stree-eets, ohhohhohh, scaring the nation...with obamas sequestration...ohhhohhohh....

keden74:My husband is an ATC that will be let off without pay due to this ridiculousness. Despite the very real economic impact it will leave on our family, we are even angrier that they have not even looked at reforming well-known chronically abused entitlements such as welfare. Along the same lines, why cut our teachers? Half of American kids can't even read. And why is Congress getting a RAISE during all this? Congressmen and senators make $174,000 a year and will see an extra $900 in their annual pay packages before taxes next year. Maybe they should forfeit it too.

These cuts just shows us how much farktards the heads of these departments are. If you cant find a 2% budget savings in your department then you need to be fired. If you are Tom Vilsak and say you are going to cut meat inspectors instead of shiat like the Obama Phones(2.2 billion), then you are a retard and should be fired.

keden74:My husband is an ATC that will be let off without pay due to this ridiculousness. Despite the very real economic impact it will leave on our family, we are even angrier that they have not even looked at reforming well-known chronically abused entitlements such as welfare. Along the same lines, why cut our teachers? Half of American kids can't even read. And why is Congress getting a RAISE during all this? Congressmen and senators make $174,000 a year and will see an extra $900 in their annual pay packages before taxes next year. Maybe they should forfeit it too.

You think that welfare is to blame for your current situation? Do you realize that the money that Mitt Romney should pay in taxes is reduced by $77,000.00? How many welfare queens do you think we need to round up to eliminate $77k of waste? This is just ONE deduction being taken by ONE rich person. How much more money is (to use your logic) stolen from the system instead of being given to teachers or to your husband? You have to understand, the strategy is to get people like you and me to fight over cruumbs while the rich sit back comfortably pulling money from the treasury without the stigma attached.

DROxINxTHExWIND:keden74: My husband is an ATC that will be let off without pay due to this ridiculousness. Despite the very real economic impact it will leave on our family, we are even angrier that they have not even looked at reforming well-known chronically abused entitlements such as welfare. Along the same lines, why cut our teachers? Half of American kids can't even read. And why is Congress getting a RAISE during all this? Congressmen and senators make $174,000 a year and will see an extra $900 in their annual pay packages before taxes next year. Maybe they should forfeit it too.

You think that welfare is to blame for your current situation? Do you realize that the money that Mitt Romney should pay in taxes is reduced by $77,000.00? How many welfare queens do you think we need to round up to eliminate $77k of waste? This is just ONE deduction being taken by ONE rich person. How much more money is (to use your logic) stolen from the system instead of being given to teachers or to your husband? You have to understand, the strategy is to get people like you and me to fight over cruumbs while the rich sit back comfortably pulling money from the treasury without the stigma attached.

I left out the most important part. The Romney tax break is for the dancing horse.

DROxINxTHExWIND:keden74: My husband is an ATC that will be let off without pay due to this ridiculousness. Despite the very real economic impact it will leave on our family, we are even angrier that they have not even looked at reforming well-known chronically abused entitlements such as welfare. Along the same lines, why cut our teachers? Half of American kids can't even read. And why is Congress getting a RAISE during all this? Congressmen and senators make $174,000 a year and will see an extra $900 in their annual pay packages before taxes next year. Maybe they should forfeit it too.

You think that welfare is to blame for your current situation? Do you realize that the money that Mitt Romney should pay in taxes is reduced by $77,000.00? How many welfare queens do you think we need to round up to eliminate $77k of waste? This is just ONE deduction being taken by ONE rich person. How much more money is (to use your logic) stolen from the system instead of being given to teachers or to your husband? You have to understand, the strategy is to get people like you and me to fight over cruumbs while the rich sit back comfortably pulling money from the treasury without the stigma attached.

I agree that is an issue too. I would not, however, call the abuse of welfare crumbs to fight over. I have personally seen women give birth to 8 plus children, on purpose, because they knew welfare would support them. It is a real issue that is happening and has been happening for some time. We do end up supporting their children too. The problem is exponential and continues to grow. But there are many issues that contribute to this farking mess, and I do concede that they are also quite pertinent. I was making an example of one of the things we might have cut before cutting people's jobs who want to work and can work.

DROxINxTHExWIND:DROxINxTHExWIND: keden74: My husband is an ATC that will be let off without pay due to this ridiculousness. Despite the very real economic impact it will leave on our family, we are even angrier that they have not even looked at reforming well-known chronically abused entitlements such as welfare. Along the same lines, why cut our teachers? Half of American kids can't even read. And why is Congress getting a RAISE during all this? Congressmen and senators make $174,000 a year and will see an extra $900 in their annual pay packages before taxes next year. Maybe they should forfeit it too.

You think that welfare is to blame for your current situation? Do you realize that the money that Mitt Romney should pay in taxes is reduced by $77,000.00? How many welfare queens do you think we need to round up to eliminate $77k of waste? This is just ONE deduction being taken by ONE rich person. How much more money is (to use your logic) stolen from the system instead of being given to teachers or to your husband? You have to understand, the strategy is to get people like you and me to fight over cruumbs while the rich sit back comfortably pulling money from the treasury without the stigma attached.

I left out the most important part. The Romney tax break is for the dancing horse.

He lost. Move on. The rest of us have.

You want to get pissed about money getting thrown around? Here, chew on this.

DROxINxTHExWIND:DROxINxTHExWIND: keden74: My husband is an ATC that will be let off without pay due to this ridiculousness. Despite the very real economic impact it will leave on our family, we are even angrier that they have not even looked at reforming well-known chronically abused entitlements such as welfare. Along the same lines, why cut our teachers? Half of American kids can't even read. And why is Congress getting a RAISE during all this? Congressmen and senators make $174,000 a year and will see an extra $900 in their annual pay packages before taxes next year. Maybe they should forfeit it too.

You think that welfare is to blame for your current situation? Do you realize that the money that Mitt Romney should pay in taxes is reduced by $77,000.00? How many welfare queens do you think we need to round up to eliminate $77k of waste? This is just ONE deduction being taken by ONE rich person. How much more money is (to use your logic) stolen from the system instead of being given to teachers or to your husband? You have to understand, the strategy is to get people like you and me to fight over cruumbs while the rich sit back comfortably pulling money from the treasury without the stigma attached.

I left out the most important part. The Romney tax break is for the dancing horse.

Let me just say this - unless you sign on the line that says 'Preparer' for Romney you have merely an idea of what he SHOULD pay based on your biases and any publicly available knowledge to which you subscribe. Most of us tend to only hold on to that info that aligns with our biases. For all you and I know (again, unless you sign as a Preparer) he shuns these deductions when he files. I sure as hell wouldn't, but that doesn't mean he can't 'fail to claim' them.

Abe Vigoda's Ghost:DROxINxTHExWIND: DROxINxTHExWIND: keden74: My husband is an ATC that will be let off without pay due to this ridiculousness. Despite the very real economic impact it will leave on our family, we are even angrier that they have not even looked at reforming well-known chronically abused entitlements such as welfare. Along the same lines, why cut our teachers? Half of American kids can't even read. And why is Congress getting a RAISE during all this? Congressmen and senators make $174,000 a year and will see an extra $900 in their annual pay packages before taxes next year. Maybe they should forfeit it too.

You think that welfare is to blame for your current situation? Do you realize that the money that Mitt Romney should pay in taxes is reduced by $77,000.00? How many welfare queens do you think we need to round up to eliminate $77k of waste? This is just ONE deduction being taken by ONE rich person. How much more money is (to use your logic) stolen from the system instead of being given to teachers or to your husband? You have to understand, the strategy is to get people like you and me to fight over cruumbs while the rich sit back comfortably pulling money from the treasury without the stigma attached.

I left out the most important part. The Romney tax break is for the dancing horse.

He lost. Move on. The rest of us have.

You want to get pissed about money getting thrown around? Here, chew on this.

How about we continue to compare apples to apples. We're talking about taxes, not foreign aid.*** And this isn't about an election. This is about a rich man's deductions. Part of the problem with politics is that you all are so fast to move on to the next narrative and the next outrage. The election went on for three years and it just ended a few months ago. Allow yourself a little time to reflect before you dive head first into the next talking point.

/***When I start to biatch about foreign aid, I'll start with the money that we give to Israel for reasons that only GOD knows.

jpk_ks:DROxINxTHExWIND: DROxINxTHExWIND: keden74: My husband is an ATC that will be let off without pay due to this ridiculousness. Despite the very real economic impact it will leave on our family, we are even angrier that they have not even looked at reforming well-known chronically abused entitlements such as welfare. Along the same lines, why cut our teachers? Half of American kids can't even read. And why is Congress getting a RAISE during all this? Congressmen and senators make $174,000 a year and will see an extra $900 in their annual pay packages before taxes next year. Maybe they should forfeit it too.

You think that welfare is to blame for your current situation? Do you realize that the money that Mitt Romney should pay in taxes is reduced by $77,000.00? How many welfare queens do you think we need to round up to eliminate $77k of waste? This is just ONE deduction being taken by ONE rich person. How much more money is (to use your logic) stolen from the system instead of being given to teachers or to your husband? You have to understand, the strategy is to get people like you and me to fight over cruumbs while the rich sit back comfortably pulling money from the treasury without the stigma attached.

I left out the most important part. The Romney tax break is for the dancing horse.

Let me just say this - unless you sign on the line that says 'Preparer' for Romney you have merely an idea of what he SHOULD pay based on your biases and any publicly available knowledge to which you subscribe. Most of us tend to only hold on to that info that aligns with our biases. For all you and I know (again, unless you sign as a Preparer) he shuns these deductions when he files. I sure as hell wouldn't, but that doesn't mean he can't 'fail to claim' them.

\Can I get a deduction for dancing whores? It's kinda close...

Isn't Romney one of the politicians that said something like "Only an idiot would pay one penny more in taxes than they had to"? I seem to remember that being discussed when it came out that he overpaid one year's worth of taxes so he could pay just more than his secretary (% wise).

msbav8r:ACunningPlan: Just let them come in on instrumentsThat's determined by the weather/visibility, not whether there is a controller.ATC's main job is to provide separation between aircraft. With on-board collision-avoidance equipment and radar, that role is somewhat redundant.There are about 12,000 public-use airports in the US. Only 400 have control towers.Most flying is done without air traffic controllers.

If you think Air Traffic Controllers are only the people in towers, you are mistaken. Flights going into and out of airports without towers still talk to people sitting in front of radar screens. Guess what the job title is of those people sitting in front of radar screens is?