Sometimes being a fan blinds you from the truth, it did for most of us with Ouellet, Surovy, Christensen, Armstrong, Koltsov...

oh you got me wrong there, im not a true fan. I rather happen to live in Vancouver right now and follow the Canucks because of that.
I dont have some type of fan bias like some others.
Not to mention that I take the NHL for what it is, a entertainment business.

So you hang out at 8 rinks and stuff like that because you think it's just entertainment? Okay.

i play hockey and usually practice in the mornings during week days and work later in the day.
what else do you think i would be doing at 8 rinks?
obviously when im there and the Canucks are practicing I have a look.

anyways lets agree to disagree. only problem is that Demitra, Sundin, AV, Gillis and Nonis agree with me to name a few.

O I wouldnt in a million years trade Svatos for Raymond if I was FG. But I wanted to gauge what others think about Raymond in this thread.

Personally I see them as similar players, Raymond is a bad version of Svatos.

Not really that similar at all IMO. Raymond is a perimeter player who is really fast, but doesn't go to the net. Svatos is all about going to the net to get dirty goals. He finds the open ice and has a lightning release to get the puck on net. The only similarity is that they are small and quick. Two different style games.

The difference is with the guys you mentioned is that they were in their teens or about 20-21yrs old when they were starting to make an impact. Mason Raymond is 23 going on 24 this year. He should be working his rear off to make enough of an impact to be considered a regular top 6 if he is ever is going to be one.
.
With that, I don't think his value is that high. I mean if we are talking about people that can skate well and have skills, for an exmaple we Pens fans said the same about Erik Christensen and we all see how he ended up.

Comparing him to guys much younger doesn't work. The fact still remains, he's 23 (24 this year) and he still really hasn't made himself a solid impact player. So far he "skates real real fast" and shows flashes of skill. Really, you can say that about a lot of guys. We pens fans have said it about Surovy, Ouellet, EC, Army...you get the point.

But of course, people will overrate their own players on the team they cheer for so whatever. I don't think Raymond is worth much, like I would never want Shero to trade Goligoski for Raymond straight up. Alex is worth way more than him and they are similar in age. At least Goligoski set records in the AHL Playoffs and has 19pts as a rookie defenseman, it counts for something considering he played 3 games last year only in the NHL.

In his draft year Raymond was like 5'10 and like 145 pounds. At 23 (btw don't exagerate his age, he was born in september)he's listed at 6'0 and 165 pounds. Regardless of his age he is physically not matured yet. And it's not like between the AJHL and the NHL he's been moving up quickly because he's been undeserving. Bye your comments I'm under the impressiong you're not familliar with the franchise which generally leaves it's prospects on the farm until they're ready. Raymond, and Kesler are the only non top 10 picks on the current team to assend to the NHL this quick.

It's your perogative to not rate Raymond very highly, but it's my perogative to tell you that your assesment of him is inaccurate.

BTW a fan who defends a player with logical statements that are contrarty with your point of view isn't automatically drinking the kool-aide. And comparing how other fans over rated their own prospects isn't proof that the Canucks organization and fans are over rating Raymond. It's plain to see to see why Nuck fans are optimistic, his skills are there but he has the body of a tall 15 year old.

I think if Canucks trade him---which they might do to get an immediate boost for the playoffs-------I think they will be kicking themselves.He has bounced around all three lines,has decent numbers,but has the skills to be very good player...solid 25-30 goal scorer.Question is can they get a very good return on a short term player ?

Goligoski has been mentioned before... a 1 for 1 swap... IMO it could help both teams... both are young players with good upside that address a positional need for each team (canucks could use a puck moving dman, while Pittsburgh could use a top 6 winger).

The Pens CAN'T trade Goligoski, he's their future replacement for Gonchar and the only true puck moverthey have in the propsct pool on defense.

His value had to have risen. Before the playoffs, I thought his ceiling was as a 3rd liner, but he's shown he can be a good complimentary second line player when needed and that he's not as soft as he seems. He's never going to be able to carry a second line though and needs at least another player on his line who can match his speed to be effective. I agree with whoever said he's look sweet on Crosby's wing, he also has a nicer wrist shot than I thought and needs to use it more while driving to the net. He also seems like the typical late bloomer, he's 23 yet still so slight and I don't think he'll lose much of his speed as he adds weight.

There's really no point in trading him because most teams won't give much up because he hasn't "proved" anything yet. But most people don't realize what kind of potential he has. He may never reach it, but it's worth a gamble,

At midseason I was all for dumping Mason, I just didnt think he would turn the corner. Now I would prefer to have him stick around and see if he can continue to grow as a player.

He has great speed no doubt, but the fact that he has become a very good penalty killer really adds to his value. He started to evolve his offensive game in the playoffs, I think there is some hope for him yet.

I made a proposal in here before that would send Raymond to the Pens for Goligoski. When I made this proposal, the Pens still had Ryan Whitney. All things considered now I wouldn't want the Pens to make this trade, but I wouldn't be terribly disappointed. I still think Raymond can be a very good player in the NHL.