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hillman puppy question

so, finally home from work overseas and spending the first night with the new puppy. as usual jet lag has me up in the middle of the night so i took the time to watch the hillman puppy dvd to get familiar with it and the question i have is that going by the timeline it looks like by around day 21 he's starting force fetch. that makes that pup about 17-18 weeks old which seems young. i've always been told not to formal hold or force fetch till after the adult teeth come in. Is hillmans technique early compared to others or did i just miss something along the way?

Hillman's FF process is considerably different than most. He isn't forcing(early on) like you would in most other "Carr" based programs. Hillman starts using the "fetch" command early, but its not with an ear pitch like a formal FF like other programs use that recomend the pup be past teething(5+months of age). Like mentioned, its a puppy process...

The timeline for the video spans from the pup being 11 weeks old at the start to 22 weeks at the end of the video. I also meant to add its actually preliminary FF and not formalized FF. My impression was to gently expose the puppy to almost everything in a gentle way so the transition to more formalized training would go easier............I think!!!! LOL

I think there are several important points about the Hillmann philosophy and methods that are relevant.

Teething

Bill makes a point in his Traffic Cop DVD that he does not interrupt or suspend his training process because a puppy is teething. You make allowances for teething by substituting an object that the puppy can comfortably hold; for example, a tennis ball, a soft toy, or even a small pillow. The important thing is that you continue to teach and reinforce concepts during this time, developing your relationship and ALWAYS making it fun and successful for you and your pup.

Timeline

There is no timeline. It is a process. You start when you are ready and your pup is ready to begin learning the three fundamental elements described in Day One. After that, you make tiny advancements in those three fundamental elements -- so subtle that the pup doesn't even realize that he is learning. There are very few moments (if any) in this Hillmann process where the pup is presented with a challenge requiring a BIG STEP forward in order to be successful. In this way, learning is achieved without pressure, without force, without anger, without confusion ... and the puppy always has a great attitude, develops confidence, builds desire and equates learning and training with FUN.

In following this process, an experienced trainer might advance a pup to the point of teaching the Fetch Command before teething is completed. If so, you continue to advance so long as you can do so without compromising the pup's attitude, confidence, success and fun.

Force Fetch

The method of Force Fetch beginning on Day 22 in Hillmann's Puppy DVD is not up to date with Hillmann's current methods and philosophy. It is the ONLY element in the Puppy DVD where Bill deviates from his principle of teaching a command to a fairly reliable level of understanding BEFORE the ecollar is used to reinforce the command.

If you believe in the Hillmann philosophy, then you should get Hillmann's Fetch Command DVD. This DVD came out almost four years after the Puppy DVD and is up to date with Hillmann's current methods for teaching Fetch (Force Fetch). The method is entirely compatible with everything else contained in the Puppy DVD. It is much easier and much more fun for both the dog and the trainer -- and the end result is a "Fetch" that is as good as the old method. Actually it is better because there is no downside risk of damaging your pup's attitude or damaging your relationship during the Force Fetch process.

This is one of the best explanations that I have heard yet about Hillmans concepts.I recently purchased all of His dvd's and with our new puppy am following as best as I can to teach this method. So far so good but a long way to go!

Originally Posted by T-Pines

Boomer,

I think there are several important points about the Hillmann philosophy and methods that are relevant.

Teething

Bill makes a point in his Traffic Cop DVD that he does not interrupt or suspend his training process because a puppy is teething. You make allowances for teething by substituting an object that the puppy can comfortably hold; for example, a tennis ball, a soft toy, or even a small pillow. The important thing is that you continue to teach and reinforce concepts during this time, developing your relationship and ALWAYS making it fun and successful for you and your pup.

Timeline

There is no timeline. It is a process. You start when you are ready and your pup is ready to begin learning the three fundamental elements described in Day One. After that, you make tiny advancements in those three fundamental elements -- so subtle that the pup doesn't even realize that he is learning. There are very few moments (if any) in this Hillmann process where the pup is presented with a challenge requiring a BIG STEP forward in order to be successful. In this way, learning is achieved without pressure, without force, without anger, without confusion ... and the puppy always has a great attitude, develops confidence, builds desire and equates learning and training with FUN.

In following this process, an experienced trainer might advance a pup to the point of teaching the Fetch Command before teething is completed. If so, you continue to advance so long as you can do so without compromising the pup's attitude, confidence, success and fun.

Force Fetch

The method of Force Fetch beginning on Day 22 in Hillmann's Puppy DVD is not up to date with Hillmann's current methods and philosophy. It is the ONLY element in the Puppy DVD where Bill deviates from his principle of teaching a command to a fairly reliable level of understanding BEFORE the ecollar is used to reinforce the command.

If you believe in the Hillmann philosophy, then you should get Hillmann's Fetch Command DVD. This DVD came out almost four years after the Puppy DVD and is up to date with Hillmann's current methods for teaching Fetch (Force Fetch). The method is entirely compatible with everything else contained in the Puppy DVD. It is much easier and much more fun for both the dog and the trainer -- and the end result is a "Fetch" that is as good as the old method. Actually it is better because there is no downside risk of damaging your pup's attitude or damaging your relationship during the Force Fetch process.

T-Pines thanks for the explanation. I used Puppy DVD with my new pup and it is amazing how well she sits. I have held off FF due to weather more than teething. I did not want to get into an issue with the pup not wanting to hold or fetch a snow crusted bumper. So we are delaying it, until I feel the time is right. She is ready, but I feel no need to rush. I am in no hurry. We are working on other things and keeping everything fun, but I am upping her standards a bit and demanding a better heel, quicker return, ie no playing with the bumper before coming back, etc., introducing 3 handed casting. I have received the next DVD but have not looked at it. I do have the force fetch video. But you answered the biggest question I had about the 2 videos and the difference in FF.