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OWNER - Glen (199)

I'm proud to announce that I have added a second 1994 E500 to my stable. It's Black Pearl (199) with black interior and came to me with just shy of 580,000 miles! Yes, that's right, 580,000 miles. If the high mileage sounds familiar to you, you deduced correctly that this is the DrP car.

DrP decided it was time to pass the car on and I happened to be in the right place at the right time. I have not mapped out a complete plan for the car yet and for the immediate future, I will simply be dusting it off, repairing a few things, and driving it. Sadly, I won't be able to accumulate miles as quickly as DrP.

For a car with this many miles, it runs remarkably well. The engine idles perfectly and pulls very well all the way to redline. It passed California emissions easily with as near as I can tell, the original factory catalytic converter. I haven't had time to do a full assessment but what the car basically needs is to have the suspension refreshed. It also needs some diagnostics for the ASR/ABS system. Cosmetically, the paint is sun faded and as you might expect, the front has a patina that only 580,000 miles can inflict! It is remarkably free of dents with only minor door dings here and there.

Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

Yep I sold her...not an easy decision after driving it (exactly) for half a million miles. I wanted to pass the car to someone passionate about her and competent enough to keep her running, hence Glen......I changed jobs, house and we have a lot of new priorities right now...and I will not be able to add many more miles as I now for the first time work <10miles from where I live. So I will continue driving my '78 450 SL (with no roof, she just passed smog, YAY!) and - for daily driving - my '02 E55 AMG. Able ersatz car for the 500 but not the mystique of the .036....(and only 124k miles, i.e. just roughed in barely). I will follow my old cars story, just a new chapter has been opened.

Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

Quick update:
Waiting for new rear wheel carrier bushings (outer LCA bushings), should be here on Tuesday. Replaced both rear hydrostruts. Replaced both front strut mounts. Amazingly, the bushings in all the rear links are NOT that bad. I will replace them when I do the subframe bushings in the future but they are fine for now.

I need to go through the huge stack of records from DrP but the front struts are not original and appear to be standard W124 parts as they lack the internal spring buffers.

Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

A cool wrap on the exterior would really be a reasonable $ way to address the paint condition.

Also, have you seen any threads where folks apply gloss rustoleum with a low nap roller? After many layers of application, they color sand and polish. The paint job is (very) reasonably priced (less than $250 for all materials), and can look amazingly good.

I know you've got other things to do first, but just thought I'd put this out there.

Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

Originally Posted by DW SD

A cool wrap on the exterior would really be a reasonable $ way to address the paint condition.

Also, have you seen any threads where folks apply gloss rustoleum with a low nap roller? After many layers of application, they color sand and polish. The paint job is (very) reasonably priced (less than $250 for all materials), and can look amazingly good.

I know you've got other things to do first, but just thought I'd put this out there.

I'm eager for a ride in it!

Doug

A friend of mine did the Rustoleum job on his Miata, came out pretty nice...but I'm not sure it's up to .036 standards. Wrapping is an interesting option that I might consider if it can be done in a gloss.

As soon as I get it put back together later this week, I'll take you for a ride!

Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

I have the steering idler I removed that might tighten up the front. It was quite tight - do you want it? New is $115. I also have an O2 sensor dated 12/7. Best as I can tell, the sensor is barely used - not many miles on it since then. Maybe it will be newer than the one in the drp car?

Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

Glen and I had a look at the DrP car last night - popped it up on the lift. It leaks like a sieve, but Glen has a plan. It appears the lower pan gasket is leaking as well as the valve cover gaskets. Cleaning everything up and changing those parts (as well as the o-ring or oil leak sender) will likely be next steps.

The car runs amazingly well! It pulls very hard. It might have a lazy tack. Initially, an ignition miss was diagnosed at high rpm, but later theory is the tack is a little lazy and we were hitting the redline and rev limiter... oops. Who wouldn't be lazy after 580k miles???? The transmission (not-rebuilt) seems to work without flaw and with almost no delay going into reverse.

The suspension is a little sloppy (only a little), but Glen is getting that dialed in, too. A fun project! A very serviceable and unique car will result I am absolutely certain!

Good to work with you last night! That was a fun break for a Wednesday.

Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

The transmission will upshift automatically around 6000rpm, before the rev limiter kicks in at ~6250. If the "misfire" is prior to the trans upshift, something is fishy. What is described should not happen unless you are manually holding the car in gear (shift lever in B or 2) up to the rev limiter.

An easy test for the tach is to temporarily swap clusters with the other car and see if the numbers appear the same during a WOT blast. Otherwise you'll either need a digital scanner to view live RPM data, or use an external tach. The tachs in my cars are both optimistic, btw, not pessimistic (i.e., they read higher RPM than actual near redline). I never knew this until I installed a digital AutoMeter DPSS tach.

Y'all probably know this but if you drop the lower oil pan, replace the oil level sensor O-rings, and possibly the sensor itself (which comes with new O-rings). The plastic gets brittle over time and 580kmi.

Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

Thanks for helping me last night, Doug. Having a second set of eyes really helps in identifying possible problem areas. The list of problem areas is fairly long but I do plan to address them all...over time.

Dave, yes when I do the lower pan gasket, I'll replace the level sensor O-rings and/or the sensor itself...thanks.

Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

Glen and Doug, thanks so much for getting all those 580kmile problems addressed!
A few comments from my side : It leaks like a sieve, but Glen has a plan. It appears the lower pan gasket is leaking as well as the valve cover gaskets. Cleaning everything up and changing those parts (as well as the o-ring or oil leak sender) will likely be next stepsThere was actually some repair done in the recent two years , the pan (incl oil pressure sensor/seal) HAS been replaced and did not leak afterwards. This particular leak went directly on the exhaust (and it smelled very badly). The leakage I observed AFTERWARDS was not coming from there but suspectedly from the front engine side (somewhere between engine and servo pump, out of that thicket on the driver side there where you really cannot see anything). The servo pump is "new" as well (i.e. <100k miles), the leaked stuff does not look or smell like ATF. My suspicion is either the front timing cover gasket or another one I do not know about. I do not assume the head gaskets leak, that would mean a significant power loss which I think is not existent. My proposal is to (power-) clean all the visible oil from the bottom side and then let the engine run and see where it's seeping from. I looked there at least a 100 times (with at least 7 different knowledgable mechanics, every single one with a different leakage theory. The timing chain front gasket was from my old German mechanic (who I trust the most)...this would be bad news as in order to replace this the heads would have to come off. I hope it's something different.

Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

The transmission (not-rebuilt) seems to work without flaw and with almost no delay going into reverse.

WOW that's a mild understatement...but you guys have comparisons with your own cars. How I remember the shift to "R" is you shift and go shower. When you come back the car is starting to roll in reverse.....

I am collecting my first mileage experiences w/ the W210 E55 AMG now. I intend to write a little experience report about the .036 vs. the AMG (which is a tight race, I can tell you) about plus and minus of the two in direct comparison from my humble [long distance driver] viewpoint

Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

DrP,
I think the reverse delay is normal. Amazing it shifts really crisply too. I had a new lower pan gasket that was leaking. It was not tight. Last night we tightened up the pan gasket as it was very loose. After the pressure wash more should be revealed. Might be worth just the oring for the level sender if the pan gasket is replaced.

Will you go with us on May 18 to the classic center? The E55 should fit in!

Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

I would love to , as ".036 owner emeritus"....but I teach on Saturdays (in San Bernardino)...let's see if I can find a replacement for that morning. The classic center is great (they have a car like I grew up with in there, an 180D Ponton). Until then you and Glen have fixed up the 500 to show quality I'm sure.....I definitely would like to see her again. I will see what I can do.

The valve cover gaskets are definitely leaking so those will be changed first. The lower pan had some loose bolts which we snugged up. I will continue degreasing the engine to make it easier to diagnose.

Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

There should be no delay when you shift to reverse. It should engage immediately. A delay of 1-2 seconds indicates moderate wear. A delay of 4+ seconds means the trans is in borrowed time. If all the other shifts are ok, the reverse clutches can be replaced without full disassembly, I belive you just need to R&R the front pump. Still a major DIY job though.

Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

Reverse engages in less than one second, more or less immediately, I'd say. Maybe under different circumstances, it might operate differently?? The car was warmed up, but not hot when I backed it out of the garage for my turn behind the wheel.

The transmission could benefit from the same seal job that I did on mine (removal the external modules and changing o-rings + the rear output shaft. There appears some slow weeping which has collected a little dirt, but nothing that appears wet. I suspect the sealing o-rings might have just lost their shape. Compared to the engine, it is bone dry

The suspension bushings looked pretty solid, too. One of the front lower control arm bushings had the beginnings of a tear with possibly some breakdown from being wet with oil.

I'm replacing the valve cover gaskets, started with the easier driver side this evening. The good news is that the cams look really good considering the miles! The bad news is that past mechanics used a bunch of sealant on the gasket flanges. Cleanup is gonna be a PITA.

Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

The heads & cams look great. Sorry to hear about the idiot mechanic. I had to deal with that on a couple of my cars. Real shame these hacks almost never have to deal with the consequences of their stupidity in the future. Cleaning the sealant off the head & VC is a miserable job. BT, DT.

Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

Originally Posted by DW SD

I had thought even a well built car would be used up by 500k miles. Clearly this notion is just plain wrong.

With proper maintenance, why would a car (or engine) be used up at 500k? One thing that engines don't like so much is heating up and cooling down again. DrP said that when he leaves in the morning, the temp gauge is still at 40C or so, so the engine never really gets totally cold. I can imagine how that, combined with proper maintenance, gives a nearly indestructible engine.

"But if you really must have the Porsche — if you really must have a Porsche sedan — you can buy a 500E and have enough left over for something air-cooled"

Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

Originally Posted by DW SD

I had thought even a well built car would be used up by 500k miles. Clearly this notion is just plain wrong.

Originally Posted by Jelmer

With proper maintenance, why would a car (or engine) be used up at 500k? One thing that engines don't like so much is heating up and cooling down again. DrP said that when he leaves in the morning, the temp gauge is still at 40C or so, so the engine never really gets totally cold. I can imagine how that, combined with proper maintenance, gives a nearly indestructible engine.

That is the keyword, Jelmer - and along with a sober driving style. I guess most people have seen two identic cars with 170kkm alongside, one in good condition and the other one is "used up" as Doug said. If the car is used as a bulldozer it will be thereafter.

Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

Arnt & Jelmer,
I suspect Bulldozers actually get better care than most automobiles! They are assets to a business and often cared for greatly (despite their intended use). Most folks run their cars into the ground and give up on them after 100k or 150k miles.

I've never owned a car long enough to find its wear limits. My perception is clearly proven wrong, which was my point!! Thanks Dr. P and Glen for documenting and opening my eyes to all of this!

My 124.036 has 189k chassis miles. The engine supposedly about 70k (Bart put a 60k mile engine in it and said he redid the trans clutches). I've seen replaced the entire suspension. It runs and drives I believe it did when it left the factory ~ it is a real joy.

At +400k miles, it appears the DrP car can achieve the same experience for Glen. AWESOME!

Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

Originally Posted by DW SD

Arnt & Jelmer,
I suspect Bulldozers actually get better care than most automobiles! They are assets to a business and often cared for greatly (despite their intended use). Most folks run their cars into the ground and give up on them after 100k or 150k miles.

I've never owned a car long enough to find its wear limits. My perception is clearly proven wrong, which was my point!! Thanks Dr. P and Glen for documenting and opening my eyes to all of this!

My 124.036 has 189k chassis miles. The engine supposedly about 70k (Bart put a 60k mile engine in it and said he redid the trans clutches). I've seen replaced the entire suspension. It runs and drives I believe it did when it left the factory ~ it is a real joy.

At +400k miles, it appears the DrP car can achieve the same experience for Glen. AWESOME!

Doug

Ahh - you're absolutely right about the bulldozers, incorrect wording from my side, sorry. I meant USED or FORCED as a bulldozer (..corrected my previous post).

The DR.P car gives me in fact a relieved feeling for keeping my 036 on a long term. It is really great that Glen bought this car so we can watch it's comming life.

Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

Originally Posted by DW SD

I had thought even a well built car would be used up by 500k miles. Clearly this notion is just plain wrong.

It depends on the car. For the W124, and most Mercedes built prior to the mid-1990's, they can easily go past 500k if the wear items are replaced as needed (rubber bushings, gaskets, seals, etc) and all maintenance is done on schedule (fluids, filters). Few other cars are built this well.

Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

Originally Posted by DW SD

Arnt & Jelmer,
I suspect Bulldozers actually get better care than most automobiles! They are assets to a business and often cared for greatly (despite their intended use). Most folks run their cars into the ground and give up on them after 100k or 150k miles.

Doug

This is true. The great majority of the general public (at least in the US) have little knowledge of what is usually their 2nd greatest asset.

Glen, I'm pleased you have this car as well.

drew

Drew
92 500e 58,500 miles
92 500e 180,000+ miles
93 500e 179,000 miles sold
92 500e 110,000 miles sold

Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

Today's update: new OE valve cover gaskets installed. I took the car for a spirited 45 minute drive and the heads are dry! Before, the exhaust manifolds would smoke after a 20 minute drive...no smoke now
For those paying attention, I cheated and did not clean the sealant from the valve covers...instead, I installed a spare set I had, much less work, LOL. The original covers I will media blast and have powder coated.
And just to confirm what's already been mentioned. The OE valve cover gaskets are definitely superior to aftermarket. I used aftermarket on my 744 car and had to use tape to hold the gasket to the valve cover during installation. That worked fine and they don't leak but the OE gaskets press on firmly and don't move during installation. Worth the extra $4 per side!

Lastly, I borrowed the VIM 5mm hex driver with universal from DW SD and it works great. It's quite easy to get to the rear valve cover bolts. Highly recommend the tool. Thanks Doug!

Next up is to replace the lower pan gasket, oil lever sender o-rings, and smog pump hoses.

Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

Time for another update:
I haven't had much time to work on this car but I managed to replace the lower pan gasket, oil level sender o-rings, and all the smog pump hoses which were hard and brittle. To replace the hoses and clamps, it's easiest to remove the alternator and smog pump so while I had them out I degreased them. With everything out of the way, I found where the majority of oil was leaking from...the timing cover! Bummer. BUT, I also happened to notice that there were three loose bolts, presumably due to a prior mechanic. Since I didn't have the time or energy for more disassembly, I simply tightened the bolts and put everything back together. This was last Monday.

Since then, I've been driving the car every day and keeping a lookout for oil drips. A month and a half ago, I was losing at least 4 ounces a week, some getting by the valve covers and hitting the exhaust manifolds, some from the lower pan gasket, and the majority dripping down from the timing cover filtering through the alternator. I'm happy to report that over the last 5 days, I haven't had a single drop hit the floor. Now, understand that it does still leak but what was essentially a down pour is now a minor weep. This morning I could see the start of a drop forming at the bottom of the alternator, if I didn't wipe it off, it probably would have dripped in the next few days. Still, this is a huge win. I will fix the leak properly at some point but it's what I consider a very manageable amount so I can focus on the other hundred things that need attention on this car.

Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

Hi Glen

you made my day ! I had not discovered that oil leak for more than 2 years, now you finally fixed it ! You deserve the E500 Nobel Prize for outstanding detection of leaks ! I am so glad that my old lady still runs that well. As for the interior of the engine (i.e. valve covers off) the notion on the board was exactly the same when my mechanic took the covers off for the first time @ 510k miles : he thought as well that this is not an org. engine !...but it is!! ... reason is clearly synthetic oil.
As for the timing cover my mechanic had the same suspicion and had tightened the bolts for that cover. I sincerely hope that he did not overtighten them as you found them loose. Keep an eye on them ! Exchanging the whole cover is not an (easy) option as the heads would have to come off.....

I am really happy about what has become of the car and the engine...this will be a super restauration! Thanks Glen ! (and Doug and for all of you who helped!)

Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

Awesome work, Glen. Removing the timing cover to properly re-seal it is a major, major job. If the only problem is a slight oil leak between the timing cover and block junction, you could apply a wide bead of silicone RTV externally over the seam, from top to bottom (or as much as you can access). This would be a bit of a chore but it would be ~10x easier than pulling the timing cover. Maybe 100x easier. And for a minor leak, it just might do the trick. Something to keep in mind if you want to mess with it in the future.

Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

When I bought the car, DrP mentioned that the right rear window needed a new regulator so yesterday I took the time to replace it. Luckily, I had a good used spare in inventory.

Oil leaks continue to be very, very minimal...actually no drips in the garage yet! But, there is still a minor smell of burning oil on the exhaust, not sure if it's residual or not. Could also be from the power steering system as all those hoses are wet; so those are on the r&r list.