2/ You simply can't be aware of the steps financial institutions are making to move - if 'we' end up crashing out - rather than agree..I know programmers who have been putting these measures in place since the referendum vote ... firms all over Europe are ready to cash in ...

3/ Now we have firms moving the annual maintenance shut down to March 2019 to avoid stock issues .... think they'lll hang around long - if they continue to have staffing / stock issues ?

I don't care what some Brexit MP's are doing I didn't vote Brexit for them I voted Brexit due to my own decision.

Finiancial institutions think everything should be subordinate to their financial concerns. Their financial concerns are not my concerns so I'm not going to vote for what they want. If they get the hump they can go elsewhere for all I care, I don't work in a financial institution so it's not going to affect me. There will always be a few companies that choose to go elsewhere but the affect will be minimal. Essentially there will always be other companies eager to fill the void they are creating.

There are already Labour shortsges in agriculture, hospitality, nursing homes and the building trade.. You aren't the most observant chap...

Did you spot Jag Rover giving their workers 2 weeks paid leave?

Yes, but their trade is from sales to China which have been falling off recently, not the EU. They no doubt see it as an opportune moment to pull a stunt to think they can push things the way they want on the EU. Basically it's rich kids throwing their toys out off their pram by not getting their own way. They are used to getting their own way and they don't like it when they get told no they can't. Well the British public have told them no they can't and we're not backing down to them. They can get into all the strop they like, lol.

Well MP's back to Parliament now. Looks like 40 Brexiteer Tory politicians look set to vote against the Chequers Deal if it looks too much like a Customs Union in all but name. That would sink the Chequers Deal in Parliament unless Labour as a Party came in to vote for it and that looks unlikely as Corbyn has all but ruled that out. If it's too much like a customs union I too would support full Brexit. My main issue is that we have control of immigration but I don't think we should be too tied to the EU either so as to avoid all their blunders that they seem prone too and awkward relations.

So it looks like it could be a tenuous moment in which Chequers deal will either go through or fail. If it fails then it looks like a General Election is on the cards to fight out the 'How' as you put it.

Yes, but their trade is from sales to China which have been falling off recently, not the EU.

Let me help you with yet another Trench howler ..

1/ China sales are falling ,,but look closer to home

2/ EU sales falling - including the UK ..the residuals on big diesels is are falling through the floor ..Got a 3 yr old RR Evoque.. Was offered 32K as a trade in 3 month ago and one garage now offering 26K ...

The deals Jag / RR were doing on new diesels for Sept registrations were incredible ..same with BMW... BMW 1 series, £2600 down and £240 month on a 4 yr PCP - 8k miles / yr

The thing for me is I don't think we should be paying the divorce bill. The EU is likely to end up going like Greece in the end the way they spend money. I very much doubt the member states will bail the EU out the money involved will be too great and they will duck any association with being responsible for that debt. So we will have ended up paying and they won't.

My main criteria of reduced immigration looks likely to be fulfilled and so in that way it will be different from a customs union. If that was not fulfilled then no I would see no point in the deal being passed in Parliament. As it is although I'm now thinking we could be better of with a clean break I think the Chequers Deal could be thd only way forward. No other option has enough votes in Parliament to get it through and even another election won convincingly by either side may not settle the matter due to splits in either party.

As I said before and this article reiterates the responsible thing for MP's to do on all sides is to vote for this deal. Assuming it contains what we think we are getting. Otherwise it could all descend into chaos.

What is clear - reading the article - is 'where we are at' is STILL massive uncertainty ... How you can read it ANY other way eludes me

What IS clear - Mrs May wants to avoid the 'third option' - letting US decide any final deal / 'no deal at all'..

Not asking why, again ?

At the moment there is still uncertainty, that's never really bothered me but I think this needs to all play out soon as it's been going on for a while now. It looks like things will start to get a bit more certain in the next couple of weeks or so as to whether we will get a deal coming forward or not. It's looking very likely now that a deal will come forward of some sorts but whether it will get enough MP's to vote for it is another matter. So as they say not long now

The reason for not letting us decide is clear, another referendum would add to the chaos not resolve it. I think if the Chequers Deal ends up not satisfying enough MP's it will not get through. Then the electorate will get another chance to express their view in another General Election as should be the case to resolve the matter.

Yes, it is clear you voted on some well dodgy pretexts that will not happen.

In the meantime those that got your vote are making plans to ensure what they lied to you about will not hurt them ...

Not at all. I voted on the pretext to end 'Freedom of Movement' as it was causing myself and my country harm. From all the noises that have been coming out it sounds like this is the one of the Red Lines that won't be crossed and immigration to the UK will decrease and we'll have back control of our borders again.

I see this as important to our country's well being. I also see not having to be on the receiving end of EU blunders and inability to act quickly and effectively as important. Both of these should be satisfied by the Chequers Deal, if they are not I can't see it going through as it's the very basic requirements of the Brexiteer's. If such a deal was ever passed with Labour votes I think Mrs May would face a leadership election. I think though that the deal that comes forward will give in other less important areas and that may well be passable. I think nearly everyone acts in their own interests, I'm quite happy where I am on all of this.

Really? Your perception of what Parliament is for is certainly different to mine .... it is to serve us - not party interests - esp on matters where decisions made go FAR beyond being simply undone when the departing govt is kicked out

From all the noises that have been coming out it sounds like this is the one of the Red Lines that won't be crossed and immigration to the UK will decrease and we'll have back control of our borders again.

The main red line - as I've told you ALL along - is that the DUP will not allow any deal that allows different treatment to the 'mainland' ( GB) and they won't tolerate a hard border

Let me explain this ... My Russian friends went via GB to NI and onwards to IRL and back to the UK on a UK visa .... there are NO immigration checks or Customs control ..unless one is daft enough to fly Ryanair - no passport necessary to fly ... THAT is THE 'red line' ... I've always pointed this out ..

I'll be happy when 'leavers' wake up and smell the Coffee - their 'wet dream' is unworkable

On the pretext that there is a housing shortage in this country as well as a need for the local population to be able to get on in work without facing a horde of East European competition which is an unfair environment to live in. Also that I don't appreciate immigration being easily circumvented, i.e FSU people gaining Polish, Hungarian, Romanian or Baltic States citizenship and then hence onto the UK. Though marriage is fair enough but current EU immigration policy is a joke. We deserve as a country the right to say who we wish to allow into our country as a citizen/resident not have it decided automatically for us.

You keep on about the DUP Mobers. The thing is they are only important enough as it is to feasibly have them onside for the vote on the Chequers Deal. At the moment their interests for no customs checks line up generally with Theresa's wish for their to be free trade/movement of goods. If this wax to change however and the DUP became a problem as is likely under a no Deal scenario then the votes would be sought from elsewhere and hence the need would come for a General Election to offload the DUP. So the power the DUP has is limited, if they push too far they could find themselves out of power and out of being able to influence anything.

Let me explain this ... My Russian friends went via GB to NI and onwards to IRL and back to the UK on a UK visa .... there are NO immigration checks or Customs control ..unless one is daft enough to fly Ryanair - no passport necessary to fly ... THAT is THE 'red line' ... I've always pointed this out ..

Several years ago, I flew Aer Lingus from Heathrow to Cork. An immigration official was checking passports at Cork, but waved me through due to my British passport. Did your Russian friends cross into Ireland using the land border, where there are no checkpoints?

Like many western nations - families are smaller and more mobile - so more houses are necessary - hence rents have gone trough the roof to meet demand .. You've suggested YOU might want to be a landlord...

Not that stopping 'freedom of movement' will stop this demand - as the industries needing non-critical skills labour have already made it clear the govt. must think again

Now you - once more - bring up this 'bollox notion' of yours than Ukraine is now exporting 'Poles' to the EU -and by inference the UK ... MANY Ukrainians can easily prove their Polish lineage - thanks to Churchill being party to allowing the Soviet land grabs of the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact

FSU people gaining Polish, Hungarian, Romanian or Baltic States citizenship and then hence onto the UK. Though marriage is fair enough but current EU immigration policy is a joke. We deserve as a country the right to say who we wish to allow into our country as a citizen/resident not have it decided automatically for us.

The very act of Brexit has resulted in Labour shortages, already as a weaker Pound and uncertainty has resulted in EU/EEA nationals LEAVING and Labour shortages... One can now earn £240 / day on the build when it was £160 / day last year..

.and votes Mrs May will need can be obtained from WHERE ? We both know she's sunk without the support of the DUP and the DUP are sunk if they allow a no deal scenario

When are you going to post something that demonstrates you HAVE a clue - rather than simply demonstrating you're a clueless racist - but still seeks to 'import' an Eastern European woman - to 'save' her ? )

Several years ago, I flew Aer Lingus from Heathrow to Cork. An immigration official was checking passports at Cork, but waved me through due to my British passport. Did your Russian friends cross into Ireland using the land border, where there are no checkpoints?

Blighty, this always amazes me - just how little folk understand the Common Travel Area .. We never encountered ANY immigration officials I will NOT show my passport - if asked to prove who I am for security purposes - my driving licence suffices - it has my address and photo on it ...

When crossing between Scotland and N.Ireland I am NOT leaving the UK - nor entering international waters.

Once ON the island of Ireland - there are no checks as we enter / leave the UK at 70 MPH / 110 KPH

The penny is dropping for some folks that 'leave' lied - the NI / Eire border question is an unsolvable scenario - if they seek a 'hard brexit' ..

Like many western nations - families are smaller and more mobile - so more houses are necessary - hence rents have gone trough the roof to meet demand .. You've suggested YOU might want to be a landlord...

Not that stopping 'freedom of movement' will stop this demand - as the industries needing non-critical skills labour have already made it clear the govt. must think again

Now you - once more - bring up this 'bollox notion' of yours than Ukraine is now exporting 'Poles' to the EU -and by inference the UK ... MANY Ukrainians can easily prove their Polish lineage - thanks to Churchill being party to allowing the Soviet land grabs of the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact

The very act of Brexit has resulted in Labour shortages, already as a weaker Pound and uncertainty has resulted in EU/EEA nationals LEAVING and Labour shortages... One can now earn £240 / day on the build when it was £160 / day last year..

Here we have Trench admitting I was correct - all along .

.and votes Mrs May will need can be obtained from WHERE ? We both know she's sunk without the support of the DUP and the DUP are sunk if they allow a no deal scenario

When are you going to post something that demonstrates you HAVE a clue - rather than simply demonstrating you're a clueless racist - but still seeks to 'import' an Eastern European woman - to 'save' her ? )

Mobe, nationality should be done on where that person was born or at least parent NOT grandparents & great grandparents. That is just taking the pee and leading to a disregard to our borders. If the EU wish to infer such a thing as EU citizenship then they should look to protect its value and the citizen status of its member nation not allow a free for all. We want to decide who comes into Britain not Poland. It's not long ago Poland was grovelling at our feet they were so poor, now they are telling who we will have in our country from peoples outside the EU it's a joke.

Mrs May can get the extra votes she needs by calling a General Election if she can't get them from the DUP or Labour. If she wins more seats in another General Election she won't need the DUP. Situation is if she can't get enough votes on her Cheques Deal then she really has little place to go other than call a General Election anyway. That is what you are not seeing!

The USA is one of the few nations that allows those born there to automatically be a citizen ...thus giving their parents rights...

What you are too daft to acknowledge is that Mrs May will not to put her vision to the test as she will be screwed and...as will the Tories.

The UK may break up and you really can be a little Englander))

Says common sense, but then again common sense is not so common, especially where the EU is concerned. Or have you not noticed the UK has a housing crises on its hands and are irresponsible enough to let the hordes flood in. Yes I know you won't be one of the ones suffering misery because you are a rich guy that just cares about no. 1.

In an case going back to what you were saying earlier we can allow builder in from Eastern Europe on a temporary work visa. No need to give them citizenship and no need to let all East Europeans in.

Well, if latest reports are to be believed it looks like Mrs May might have been looking for a temporary customs union. This though looks set to fail if she tries it as both Tory Brexiteers and more importantly Labour say they will not support it. I personally think it's a godsend that Labour say they will not support it, a fudge as they put it. It essentially could bring things all to a head. My guess is that Theresa May step down and/or they'll be a General Election called.

What you fail to understand Mobers is that the DUP are potentially the easiest thing to shift. They have only 10 MP's to get past, if a General Election was called and the Tories get returned with more seats then that will be the hard Irish border issue out of the way.

My guess is and it may be worth me visiting the bookies on this one is that Boris Johnson could take over as PM, a General Election be called, the Tories gain a majority and a Canada plus, plus trade agreement is made. It's an agreement after all that both the Brexiteer's & the EU agree on.

Well, if latest reports are to be believed it looks like Mrs May might have been looking for a temporary customs union. This though looks set to fail

It's EXACTLY the scenario I have long predicted - as if their is a 'no deal' scenario - there will be some sort of vote - be it a Gen Election / People's Vote and Mrs May and the Tories will be even weaker - as will the DUP

What you fail to understand Mobers is that the DUP are potentially the easiest thing to shift. They have only 10 MP's to get past, if a General Election was called and the Tories get returned with more seats then that will be the hard Irish border issue out of the way.

My guess is and it may be worth me visiting the bookies on this one is that Boris Johnson could take over as PM, a General Election be called, the Tories gain a majority and a Canada plus, plus trade agreement is made. It's an agreement after all that both the Brexiteer's & the EU agree on.

Given it was the Scots Tories that were the only ONLY part of the Tory party to gain seats and the DUP represent 30 percent of NI Voters- if the issue is Brexit - you'll forgive my guffaw at your political awareness comprehension. Both these factors - just - ensured a Tory govt could - just - govern

I'd advise restraint re your urge to throw the money you tell us you are 'so careful' to accumulate ...but then the old expression about the fool and his money being easily parted may be truer than you knew... ?

This is a mess, but I would rather vote in Labour - if they promise a vote on any Brexit 'no deal' scenario - as it is far better to remain part of the club than the damage done by leaving completely.

All Mrs May and her Brextremist idiots have done - is just made UK PLC weaker - and we'll end up not being at the table to make rules we'll have to implement

From your VERY OWN suggested link)) The parts you 'forgot' to quote...

1/ We will end Theresa May’s reckless approach to Brexit, and seek to unite the country around a Brexit deal that works for every community in Britain.

2/ We will scrap the Conservatives’ Brexit White Paper and replace it with fresh negotiating priorities that have a strong emphasis on retaining the benefits of the Single Market and the Customs Union – which are essential for maintaining industries, jobs and businesses in Britain. Labour will always put jobs and the economy first.

3/ A Labour government will immediately guarantee existing rights for all EU nationals living in Britain and secure reciprocal rights for UK citizens who have chosen to make their lives in EU countries. EU nationals do not just contribute to our society: they are part of our society. And they should not be used as bargaining chips.

4/ It is shameful that the Prime Minister rejected repeated attempts by Labour to resolve this issue before Article 50 was triggered. As a result three million EU nationals have suffered unnecessary uncertainty, as have the 1.2 million UK citizens living in the EU.

5/ A Conservative Brexit will weaken workers’ rights, deregulate the economy, slash corporate taxes, sideline Parliament and democratic accountability, and cut Britain off from our closest allies and most important trading partners.

6/ Labour recognises that leaving the EU with ‘no deal’ is the worst possible deal for Britain and that it would do damage to our economy and trade. We will reject ‘no deal’ as a viable option and, if needs be, negotiate transitional arrangements to avoid a ‘cliff-edge’ for the UK economy.

7/ The issues that affect our continent now will continue to do so in the future – and Labour will continue to work constructively with the EU and other European nations on issues such as climate change, refugee crises and counter-terrorism.

I can't believe you've not read the whole page and would seek to try to mislead - *I* can't believe I'm pushing a Labour policy ))

I readily admit to distrusting Labour - but I do not read those words as 'open to interpretation'

JC is a known Europhobe - as is McDonald - but the grass roots ?

IF you seriously think leavers are being realistic / honest - there is no hope for reasonable dialogue They would rather 'get their way' than worry about the Billions already lost due to uncertainty and failing to realise that as the party of govt they are split beyond redemption / trust, also

2/ Successive govts. in Ireland, UK, etc., have not built sufficient social housing - nothing to do with the EU

'We' do not possess the infrastructure to implement and police such policies and they will be too costly / time consuming

It's EXACTLY the scenario I have long predicted - as if their is a 'no deal' scenario - there will be some sort of vote - be it a Gen Election / People's Vote and Mrs May and the Tories will be even weaker - as will the DUP

You seriously think that the Tories / DUP will win more seats ?

Given it was the Scots Tories that were the only ONLY part of the Tory party to gain seats and the DUP represent 30 percent of NI Voters- if the issue is Brexit - you'll forgive my guffaw at your political awareness comprehension. Both these factors - just - ensured a Tory govt could - just - govern

I'd advise restraint re your urge to throw the money you tell us you are 'so careful' to accumulate ...but then the old expression about the fool and his money being easily parted may be truer than you knew... ?

This is a mess, but I would rather vote in Labour - if they promise a vote on any Brexit 'no deal' scenario - as it is far better to remain part of the club than the damage done by leaving completely.

All Mrs May and her Brextremist idiots have done - is just made UK PLC weaker - and we'll end up not being at the table to make rules we'll have to implement

Mobe they are called Work Visa's & Border Force - of course we can issue these and police them just like any other country does. If the person can't prove the right to work with an Employer that's it they can't get employment and no point them being here dwindling their money.

I see you have now changed you tune and are making out you predicted the scenario of a General Election. I would like to see the post where you predicted that. To my mind you just kept reitterating that the gov would fall if it went against the DUP in a no confidence vote. I repeatedly told you no the Gov would call a General Election first to avoid looking weak.

Having to follow the rules without being at the table is exactly why we need to leave the EU AND the customs union. Being their bitch is not in our Nations best interest, we would be stronger outside the EU. No hefty membership fees to pay, no costs of EU faiures, more trading partners, etc.

JC is a canny old boy, no I don't think he is overly keen on the EU or the customs union. If he were he would accept the fudge suggested this week of a temporary customs union in the hope this would become a permanent feature & slide back into the EU. Instead he knows he can knock it back possibly forcing a GE after the Budget. He can get away with that without upsetting the Remoan idiots in his party as it can be seen as an undesirable temporary situation whe in fact it would likely lead them to what they want. He's hoping for the situation to play out in his favour, but the case is Labour are just as divided as the Tories when it comes to the EU, they are just not having to deal with it.

The next couple of weeks till the Budget should hopefully prove decisive.