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Holy stone is from the magic side perspective but from the science side they call it gemstone or something. From Fianna's perspective it's a HOLY STONE but from Aleister's perspective its a GEMSTONE.

The weird sounds he produce back then when he tried to manipulate the atmosphere is his calculations in rapid speed. And I'm not sure too if he would awaken back then or not but its true he produced weird sound or like weird computation stuff or just mumbling stuff in awaken mode. The only one who could awaken are Accel and Kakine but Aiwass said touma could so maybe the complete imagine breaker is his awaken mode. Plus Aiwass compare kakine, touma and Accel in Egyptian Gods.

I don't remember Aleister calling Touma a gemstone, but I remember Fiamma calling Touma the Holy Stone in the vol.16.

Spoiler for Fiamma:

Fiamma: "The Holy Stone that symbolises all powers of miracles, no matter it be magic or the demonic arts, it will destroy all without differentiating between them. even in the past it has sealed the demon lord Satan into hell for a thousand years, the power of the Right that let the human realm have a thousand year of peace.

If there's a right hand in this world that can bring out it's complete potential, however, wouldn't you want to know its composition?"

The Pope: (Could... it be)
(In the report, it has mentioned...
in Academy City, a certain boy possesses a supernatural power whose properties are unknown.
An right hand that completely erases mysteries and magic.)

Fiamma: "If it was I... then I can use it. This Michael, it can definitely use it to its full potential. For this, preparations must be made..."

To control that overwhelming power, overwhelming knowledge that is beyond the realm of humans is needed.

The Roman Catholic Pope knows of a 'Vault of knowledge'.
One that holds all grimoire of the world, a crystallized form of those certain knowledge.

Ok. XD While I'm aware of that simple logic, I still find it strange why they didn't choose Accelerator to begin with.
I didn't expect those scientists to make simple mistakes in deciding the more appropriate candidate.

I not sure. We have no idea if it is really Itsuwa that Touma fought. It's just speculation by most fans believing this is how she actually meet Touma the first time before Vol 11 where she was introduced. We can only confirmed if that girl is Itsuwa once the 2nd season of the Index anime airs.
(If it is her... cue Fangasm by everyone!!!)

Ok. XD While I'm aware of that simple logic, I still find it strange why they didn't choose Accelerator to begin with.
I didn't expect those scientists to make simple mistakes in deciding the more appropriate candidate.

wasn't it stated that Dark Matter was the back-up plan in case anything happened with Accelerator?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrTerrorist

I not sure. We have no idea if it is really Itsuwa that Touma fought. It's just speculation by most fans believing this is how she actually meet Touma the first time before Vol 11 where she was introduced. We can only confirmed if that girl is Itsuwa once the 2nd season of the Index anime airs.
(If it is her... cue Fangasm by everyone!!!)

True that. Oh, the woes of knowing too much beforehand - jumping at every red herring we see.

Accelerator himself already said in the Level 6 Shift arc that he can also redirect the opposing forces from the Third Law.

Besides, Personal Reality gives you plot armour if you want to break the fourth wall, or suspending your disbelief. What's the point of substituting normal reality with your own if you can't replace the reality of the Third Law when you're already a Level 5?

Accelerator himself already said in the Level 6 Shift arc that he can also redirect the opposing forces from the Third Law.

Besides, Personal Reality gives you plot armour if you want to break the fourth wall, or suspending your disbelief.

He can redirect, but not totally cancel it. Which means if there is air resistance, he can shift the opposing force to his left and right to reduce it, but this means that there will be an increase in the total force from both the left and right.

Either that or he redirects the vectors accordingly to go around him, thus giving him the propulsion when he was killing one of the sisters when he met Touma. However it still means that he will slow down over time because of the limitations when K.E comes into play : dynamic equilibrium and the Laws of Thermodynamics do not allow him to travel at the speed indefinitely.

To defeat him, you have to make use of the time intervals between each and every tactic he used to deliver damage, which is difficult if you don't have time manipulation abilities or cancellation skills like Touma. This is what makes him the most powerful esper in Academy City.

__________________

When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.

Index just develops very slowly, you know...
It wasn't till volume 15 that 2nd and 4th were introduced.

I wouldn't worry very much about that. He/she will appear in time.
Scratch that. It's Touma.
...Or is it Saten?

Btw, for people who read the novels.
I was told that in volume one, Mental Out was hinted.
Specifically, Touma called Komoe to ask for a "certain telepath" to take care of Index's problem.
Can anyone confirm this?

hmm, it seems, that there's that much difference between no.2 and no. 3 seat of lvl 5 physics XD. I was kinda hoping the science side can match the magic side so they can make some major war between the two side in later arc), but seeing the later volume, all hope is crushed(saints? fiana? aqua? not to mention the various magic artifact?)

Considering that the title of the series is MAGICAL Index and not SCIENTIFIC [Railgun/City/insert-whatever-appropraite-title-here], it's not surprising it went on to the Magic roots now.

Don't worry, between Accelerator, the Misaka Network and all that Aleister is trying to do with the Imaginary Numbers District, we shall soon see LOLSCIENCE again. Especially when Accelerator is in search of Index, who is now in Fiamma's hands.

I don't remember Aleister calling Touma a gemstone, but I remember Fiamma calling Touma the Holy Stone in the vol.16.

If I remember it right. He did call it when the word gemstone is introduced in the side story. I read it here in the forum.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nya~n

That isn't Itsuwa that Touma knocked out, was it?

Why go for No.2 when you can use No.1?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanish

Ok. XD While I'm aware of that simple logic, I still find it strange why they didn't choose Accelerator to begin with.
I didn't expect those scientists to make simple mistakes in deciding the more appropriate candidate.

Spoiler:

I hope its itsuwa because it could be the proof of what starts the love of itsuwa for touma because when she first been arrive in vol 11. She already love love without proper reason. As for vol 7 when a girl using a ceremonial blade attack touma and touma defeated it but protected it from further damage that could be a reason. Being a gentelman guy that couldn't really hurt a girl around his age but BUT BUT!!!! he punch Sherry which is older than him.

As for why the 3rd rank not the ultimate 1st and blasted 2nd then their is a good explanation but the end point is the 1st and 2nd are special. As for the 3rd to 7th are just normal. Like what Accel says in eyesight where one could get 2.0 at best then him staying at level 5 doesn't mean that they are the same.

the level 6 project are just a big scheme of Aleister to introduce the "sisters" to the world. He can't just send thousands of clones outside the academy city out of pure whim without proper reason. Now the scheme is trick Accel on the level 6 project and that will revive the radio project that was shot down and turn it into level 6 project. But Aleister knew touma would beat the crap out of Accel. Well touma had been playing around on Aleister's palm since the beginning and all is just a brilliant scheme. Well back to touma beating Accel and with this the project is shut down and their will be an excuse to send the sisters and that is for adjustments for them. As of now their are only 10 functioning sisters inside the academy city. The 9000+ are around the globe. And those sisters are still functioning in the network that gives a HUGE AIM field. The use of huge Aim field is for the existence of his artificial heaven to be brought into the reality. Because the artificial angels can only exist in the area where aim is released or a field with aim. With this Fuze=Kazakiri can materialize herself in the real world or just the imaginary sectors.

Aleister can't use Accel and Kakine because they are special. They can AWAKEN. Grow wings and become somewhat like an angel two. The awaken powers are the only thing that rivals the powers of the saints. Accel being somewhat they say the primary pawn or vessel of Aleister and if Accel fails to meet the expectations of Aleister then his to be disposed but he proved himself and been lead into the palm of Aleister. That's the end of vol 13 where Accel to protect what he has to protect agreed to be a pawn of the directors of the academy city or just to say Aleister. And in vol 15. Where their is a war inside the academy city. Aleister send his "group" to finish it off. Just think of the group as his personal men that act according to his wishes. With him achieving Accel he doesn't need kakine anymore so his dead in vol 15. But still his ability is special which is the dark matter that had been said that the power which bears the power of god. So they salvage his brains and put it in some machinery and with it his been a machine brain factory of dark matter or just his sole purpose is to produce dark matter.

But Aiwass commented that touma, kakine and accel are still special among special and compare them to Egyptian gods. So their is still a chance for kakine to return from just a lump of brain. Just like mugino.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kuroishinigami

hmm, it seems, that there's that much difference between no.2 and no. 3 seat of lvl 5 physics XD. I was kinda hoping the science side can match the magic side so they can make some major war between the two side in later arc), but seeing the later volume, all hope is crushed(saints? fiana? aqua? not to mention the various magic artifact?)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nya~n

Considering that the title of the series is MAGICAL Index and not SCIENTIFIC [Railgun/City/insert-whatever-appropraite-title-here], it's not surprising it went on to the Magic roots now.

Spoiler:

Don't worry, between Accelerator, the Misaka Network and all that Aleister is trying to do with the Imaginary Numbers District, we shall soon see LOLSCIENCE again. Especially when Accelerator is in search of Index, who is now in Fiamma's hands.

Spoiler:

If its science vs magic. It will be deciding factor on where is touma will side with and if science are allowed to use the artificial angel. If its just level 5 kids a 1 or 2 saints are enough to kill them all. I said 1 or 2 because the 1 saint will pretty much occupy with accel with his awaken form but if kakine also awaken then it will be 3-4. The only one yet that rivals the power of saints on the espers are the awaken ones. Did you think biribiri and mugino are strong? well they are just kids and will still be no match for a saint. Though Gunha is a question mark on how strong he really is. Being a gemstone is a big unknown but still its a saint.

then their are the deciding factors. Touma and Artificial Angels.

If the science side is allowed to use Fuze=Kazakiri but which can only be use inside the academy city then their will be a hard fight for the magic side. All combatants of the magic side are professional in their field. Unlike the students in academy city which live in peaceful life well except touma and accel which is continuously drag on dangerous events they are still students.
If its artificial angel vs Saints. 1 saints isn't enough to take it down. Maybe 7-10 Saint are needed to squash it down. Even though its an angel its still artificial and still incomplete and its range is still limited with 100 meters radius with its electric wings. And Hyouka Kazakiri as the core if you manage to evade the dance of electric wings and get near to her then their is a chance but be minded. One touch from it will be like been touch by imagine breaker and even its not magic or esper you will disappear. You will be completely annihilated.

If touma is in magic side and science had the artificial angel then its the magic sides win. Even against an arificial angel touma can still erase it but not all. The one he touch will be erase but it will still regenerate in amazing speed. So the only thing to do is the saints barrage magic with the wings and make a way for touma to erase kazakiri but its impossible for him to kill her. If I remember it right when he saw the state of kazakiri he felt painful. Well the girl is literally crying or just look at the picture you could see how pitiful her state is.

Then their is Aiwass but his neutral so its fine.

If you add it all up. If science side manage to produce more angels or able to brought on the angels from the imaginary sectors then its science sides win and if not its the magic sides win. And isn't it funny. Being the science side yet they depend on angels even though its artificial and not a real angel.

I'll like to point out that the author throws around the 'nuclear weapon' comparison quite alot, so I wouldn't take it TOO seriously.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ice Block

Nah. If Accelerator learns how to keep his distance, which he should have, then Touma has no hope of beating him again. Accelerator lost simply because he just stood there and took all the blows, probably trying to include whatever he thought was hitting him into his redirection filter.

It has been me believe that after taking that first hit from Touma, Accelerator was quite shaken. I mean yeah, for a person who has never been harmed in his life, being punched in the face is a painful thing, he probably couldn't focus too well after that.

But in addition, I think it had more of a mental impact; All of his absolute beliefs came crashing down.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsunade666

Saints are stronger than level 5. They could make level 5 like a child well except for accel but still his no match for them. The only way he can stood against a saint is when his in black wings mode which index said rivals the power of the saints.

Questionable.

We have only seen 2 Saints in action, 3 if you count the SS. And if it's about an all out smack down, any of the Level 5s could give them a run for their money.

The thing is, they don't know about Magic, and the Saint don't know about Science.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsunade666

As of now if you compare the power balance between magic and science. Magic side has the clear advantage with their saints and all but the science side has their artificial angel. Not including Aiwass because his kinda neutral to both sides.

People tend to forget that the Science-side isn't restricted to AIM powers.

They also have nukes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LastResolve

so saints are weak against stabbing and such? (similiar to the suffering of jesus christ)
i was keep thinking cant accelarator encrease or decrease the vibrations between molecule theoritically he could melt or freeze anything he wants?
also touma can nullify magic espers etc with his whole hand or just with his palm cuz if with his whole arm then ars magna shoudnt be able to cut his arm off wich would make a big plot hole lol

Anything that is similiar to the way the Son of God was killed.

I heard torturing/execution devices work as well.

Also, Imagine Breaker is only restricted to his hand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilfriback

Mmmm... since saints have a different nature of their power they can inflict damage to Accelerator, but sure he can add them to his filter if he has the chance.

Yes, but if Kaori swings a sword at him, you can bet it's going to go the other way.

Accelerator was able to calculate the entire 'alien' laws of nature that Dark Matter has created. What is to say that he can't do the same for the laws of Magic?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanish

Weird sounds?
I don't know more about it than you but I think the situation that time wasn't enough to awaken him.
I imagine it's gotta take a really stressing and life threatening situation to uninentionally achieve that. (typical scenes where a char freaks out / gets owned badly and then unleashes overlimit mode)

Yeah, he started this high pitch chatter. I thought at that time it was something he did with the surrounding air that altered his voice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsunade666

Plus Aiwass compare kakine, touma and Accel in Egyptian Gods.

This is new to me, what did he say?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanish

Speaking of Kakine, how come he was chosen for the Level 6 project but then got dropped (reason why he hated Acc)?D:
Only got that fact before, any detailed explanation for this?

He was suppose to be Accelerator's backup, meaning a subsitute for the guy.

Obviously, being Number 2 all the time pisses him off.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nya~n

That isn't Itsuwa that Touma knocked out, was it?

No idea.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kuroishinigami

hmm, it seems, that there's that much difference between no.2 and no. 3 seat of lvl 5 physics XD. I was kinda hoping the science side can match the magic side so they can make some major war between the two side in later arc), but seeing the later volume, all hope is crushed(saints? fiana? aqua? not to mention the various magic artifact?)

The thing is, I don't think Aleister plans to use the Espers to fight in his war against magic at all.

Everything he has done is towards the creation of the Artifical Angel. The Espers are there to produce the AIM fields.

And besides, most of them are students, sure he uses some of them. But majority of his strength comes from Armed Groups.

Btw, on the topic of Dark Matter... Rather than calling it 'Dark Matter', doesn't the description on the label fits more of the Higgs Boson?

EDIT:

Just one part of Volume 10...

Spoiler:

Tsuchimikado: "Just what were you doing all this while? Don't tell me you ran into Oriana and Lidvia...?"

Stiyl: "No..."

Touma: "This person tried to save someone's life, ends up having Komoe-sensei being eternally grateful, and he had trouble shaking her off...Right?"

Stiyl: "Urgh! You... You outsider thug! Stop saying nonsense! After I received that call from you, I've dump that person. But Even when I used magic to escape, she soon caught up to me after I left the radius, by the time I've completely lost her, considerable time has passed."

Tsuchimikado: "...Sigh, that should be the Kamiya diease. At such a serious time, I, Tsuchimikado-san, is completely covered in blood from using search magic, but instead you land yourself in such a love comedy sitcom scenario... To top it off, the love interest isn't even index, but Komoe-sensei. You guys are really strange, always so flicker-minded with your intentions, a real man should only have eyes for one woman!"

Stiyl: "Don't call it 'Kamiya Disease'. And hearing that from someone who habour lustful feelings for his own sister, pardon me if I'm not moved."

now that everyone gives a conmment, it seems battle between science(esper) against magic seems even more far-fetched. I agree with the science side only consist of students. One thing I wonder though, what happen to those esper that already grow old enough by the time the story start?(I mean, they won't stay as students forever right? what happen to those people that already graduated?)