We feel dungeons are rewarding enough

For Mists of Pandaria, though, we feel dungeons are already rewarding so it made the most sense to have reputation earned by doing things for each particular faction. The various factions are what really bring a lot of the flavor and character to the world of Pandaria. We weren’t very happy that the status quo in Cataclysm was to virtually ignore most factions and what they’re about, by instead doing the fairly unrelated task of running dungeons. It provided a way for players to essentially double dip on rewards from dungeons and faction reputations simply by putting on a shirt when queuing. In Mists we’ve changed the reward structure in a way that we feel makes for a better, more diverse gameplay experience.

You've got to be kidding me. This has been the least rewarding dungeon experience I've ever had in this game and I"ve been grinding my face off in dungeons for at least 6 years now. It's piss easy so theirs no sense of personal reward from it. The rate that you acquire jp and vp at is slow as hell so it doesn't feel rewarding from a gear perspective. The JP is also worthless because the gear is just so bad. The drops you need are subject to such huge amounts of rng I end up leaving dungeons before they finish anyway because the boss I need doesn't drop the loot I need. I don't get rep and it doesn't look like their going to make that happen any time soon. WHAT THE FUCK IS REWARDING ABOUT DUNGEONS? Look I swore I would never start a thread in this general forum because it will just get shouted down but I can't fucking help it. Please don't shout this down with bullshit, I'm just so stunned they feel this way.

The hammer comes down:

Originally Posted by Osmeric

Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

Grind grind grind is literally the game, Dailies VP grind all that stuff. It's atrocious however I'm enjoying it more then that pile of garbage known as Cata. Thankfully I'm a casual now so I'm not forced to grind endlessly until my eyes bleed to do realm first stuff now

I would agree that the dungeons are lack luster and I wish they would bring back the rep reward if you wear the tabard in the dungeon. Maybe not at the amount gained as previous but maybe 500 rep for completing the instance as a whole.

They are easy for a reason. LFR exists for your welfare epics. It opens up next week. Remain calm and continue being spoon fed on reset.

LFR isn't terribly rewarding either. Especially since hey look at that you have to grind daily to spend your vp and your subject to more RNG with the computer picking who gets loot. Not to mention it's piss easy. Look I have no problem with it being easy but it gives you so little reward that it becomes easy and worthless.

The hammer comes down:

Originally Posted by Osmeric

Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

Double Dipping? I agree there, in the point they're making. However I don't see it as a problem.

Tabards were designed to get people into dungeons, as opposed to grinding dailies... And it did exactly that. Now they're reversing that.

In Cata, up until literally the last week of Cata, I ground out my JP/VP max with dungeons. Now? I don't even bother with dungeons at all, outside of spamming them for two days to get some decent gear.

LFR isn't terribly rewarding either. Especially since hey look at that you have to grind daily to spend your vp and your subject to more RNG with the computer picking who gets loot. Not to mention it's piss easy. Look I have no problem with it being easy but it gives you so little reward that it becomes easy and worthless.

You're looking at the kids menu and trying to order a steak.

If you actually want to be rewarded do something that isn't designed for casuals and considered an easy alternative to real content.

You all complain that you don't get to see content because it's too hard and yet in the end it comes down to nothing more than people wanting gear they don't deserve.

They are easy for a reason. LFR exists for your welfare epics. It opens up next week. Remain calm and continue being spoon fed on reset.

Except the loot rate for LFR is supposedly 15%, unless you spend your life grinding dailies to get luck charms.
Assuming the raids are split up to 5 bosses per LFR, that's a 44% chance to see NO loot, let alone any that's useful, per week.

If you actually want to be rewarded do something that isn't designed for casuals and considered an easy alternative to real content.

You all complain that you don't get to see content because it's too hard and yet in the end it comes down to nothing more than people wanting gear they don't deserve.

Get good or deal with it.

This is exactly what I'm talking about and exactly why I don't start threads in this forum. I must be a HORRID player if I can't commit to a raid schedule. You've just reaffirmed my opinion about the people who constantly defend them.

The hammer comes down:

Originally Posted by Osmeric

Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

LFR isn't terribly rewarding either. Especially since hey look at that you have to grind daily to spend your vp and your subject to more RNG with the computer picking who gets loot. Not to mention it's piss easy. Look I have no problem with it being easy but it gives you so little reward that it becomes easy and worthless.

How is epic loot with a complete matching looking set not enough reward? You want moar STATS? get into a Raid, graphic effects in your gear? get a CM group.

Not really especially by comparison to other mmos. WoWs success has been to get away from that model and the purist model of mmo gaming in general. It had some but the game always did better when it removed or limited the grinding.

---------- Post added 2012-10-06 at 07:37 AM ----------

Originally Posted by thigan

How is epic loot with a complete matching looking set not enough reward? You want moar STATS? get into a Raid, graphic effects in your gear? get a CM group.

Because alot of times you don't get the gear, it's just another huge cock block. That's assuming I don't get stuck subject to rng bullshit in dungeons and can farm the 460 ilvl which I can't really do anything about since hey look at that justice gear sucks da cock. It is still in every way the least rewarding dungeon experience I've had in the game.

The hammer comes down:

Originally Posted by Osmeric

Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

basically this. Also, I'm pretty sure Vanilla and BC were just as grindy. I don't wanna remember how often I ran the dungeons on normal mode just to get my friggin hero keys

Which they subsequently nerfed and then got rid off entirely... Hell even in that case you got rep in the dungeons so their was some reward and you eventually got keys for the heroics. Now you don't even get that.

The hammer comes down:

Originally Posted by Osmeric

Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

I stopped doing dungeons 2 days after hitting 90. Now during those 2 days i did ALOT of them so I got my heroic dungeon set finished. After that though, there was/is no reason to do them. Between no longer getting rep and being able to get valor faster through dailies (i am dps so i don't get a insta que), I don't really have a reason to que up unless it is specifically to help somebody else. The only reason I can think of to do heroics now, if you already have your gear, is if you want to grind out the valor you need to buy a valor piece (instead of waiting for the valor from dailies to accumulate over the week) or you just like doing them for the sake of doing them.

Not really especially by comparison to other mmos. WoWs success has been to get away from that model and the purist model of mmo gaming in general. It had some but the game always did better when it removed or limited the grinding.[COLOR="red"]

Well it's interesting that WotLK probably had the least amount of grind among the warcraft expansions, and that was the most successful period of the games life so far as well.

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it, but I agree with Blizzard.

I agree honestly, not having the tabard for rep in dungeons does kind of suck because I'm one of those people with plenty of alts (90, 85, 85, 85, 85, 85, 85, 85, 82, 75, 37) not counting my Horde server which has more, so earning these things on all of them is quite a pain in the rear, but hopefully I won't have to for certain things (such as mounts) but Tillers? Better for my cook than it is my Shaman (Main = Hunter), regardless.... I do like it and this is my favorite expansion over all.

I did at first think dungeons were too easy but I found out that it was intended that way and I am fine with that.