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Saw a wonderful play this weekend! It was an adaptation of the Diary of Anne Frank... thought i would start a thread to see if any of you are descended from holocaust survivors... or if anyone has anything to illuminate the rest of us!

My best friends grandparents actually met in a concentration camp. He died last year (his grandfather, not my friend) but before he died we were drinking one night and he said that the only reason that he wasn't killed was because he was a great shoemaker and was put to use in that manner. Strange to think that it was up to a persons skill that decisions like that were made.

seems like i heard there is a movie or book where that is the scenario... germany won, and what the states were like after that... has anyone read or seen it???

There was an HBO movie called Fatherland about Germany winning WWII. It is set in 1964. Hitler is still alive and Joe Kennedy is President. Rutger Hauer and a reporter uncover the Holocaust, which was hidden up to then.

There was an HBO movie called Fatherland about Germany winning WWII. It is set in 1964. Hitler is still alive and Joe Kennedy is President. Rutger Hauer and a reporter uncover the Holocaust, which was hidden up to then.

Never saw the movie. Read the book by Robert Harris that it was based on. How was the movie?

The survival of everyone on board depends on just one thing: finding someone on board who can not only fly this plane, but who didn't have fish for dinner.

We are Austrians. My grandmother survived a concentration camp (she was part of a minority). My other grandmother was a nurse. Both grandfathers fought at the front, both were wounded, both made it home.
All of them never stopped talking about the war. they educated their children and grandchildren about the horrors and taught us tolerance. They made sure we'd never forget.

My best friends grandparents actually met in a concentration camp. He died last year (his grandfather, not my friend) but before he died we were drinking one night and he said that the only reason that he wasn't killed was because he was a great shoemaker and was put to use in that manner. Strange to think that it was up to a persons skill that decisions like that were made.

My grandmother and grandfather survived Dachau, and my mom always thought that they did so because my grandmother was such a great seamstress. I believe she sewed a lot of dresses for the officer's wives. When my grandparents escaped, they managed to take my mom with them, but not their son. They came to Canada and changed their names constantly as they moved across the country. I guess they were still afraid of what may happen. My grandparents and parents are gone now, so their history is lost forever.

Auschwitz is said to be the world's biggest graveyard. It was originally barracks for the Polish army so that's what it looks like - save the razor wire and the "Arbecht Macht Frei" over the gates - which is eternally creepy. (sorry about my spelling) It has been preserved very well over the years to keep it as it was. The gas chambers, ovens, cannisters of zyklon B, lake of ashes, crematoriium, cell block 11 - anyone interested in an amazing story of human resilliance, cell block 11 is it! There is a shrine in one of the prison cells there to a Polish priest by the name of Maxmillian Kobe (spelling again, sorry).

What struck me very hard was the gymnasium length walls and behind glass along each wall were shoes, piled up to the ceiling. Then the next one was kids' shoes, then toothbrushes, eyeglasses, prosthetic legs and arms, and the piles of human hair that the Germans collected to be used in the war machine. Each grouping big enough to fill their own gymnasium! The real kicker though was the suitcases, mountains of them. Each one with a star of David, or a triangle on them, and each one with someone's name and address. The prisoners were told by the Nazis to write their names and addresses on their belongs to be sure to get them back. Isn't that sick? I suppose it was to keep everyone calm, but the lies, told with a straight face, all the while knowing that no one was going to need their suitcases again.

I teach my kids this. It happened. I saw the aftermath with my own eyes.

Excuse me for getting a bit off topic, but since we are talking about Germany's persecution of the Jews, gays, etc., I think it's only fair to bring up the fact that they also persecuted some of their Aryan women. The German SS had factories where they went to impreginate Aryan women to further the master race. I kid you not. I know a lady who was born in one. She said that they usually killed the female babies, but for some reason, perhaps because her "father" was a high-level Gestopo, she was allowed to live.

I got on a kick a few years back about white supremacy and neo-nazis and skinheads and all those lovely folks and did a lot of research and reading. We had a KKK guy, a grand wizard or such, that lived in the town I grew up in, that sparked a lot of it. The stuff they believe boggles the mind, the denial and the intolerance.

I think I'm going to reread The Diary of Anne Frank again. Haven't read it in years.

i saw in a documentary that a direct descendent of the hitler family (like his niece or nephew or maybe a cousin) moved to the US after the war... of course they changed their name... how ironic is that!?!?

I saw that too ..it was Hitler's nephew, I think it was on the History Channel.

I recommend a great book called "The Lost..a search for 6 of 6 million" by Daniel Mendelsohn..it is the story of his search for information on 6 members of his family...very informative and interesting.
I am a WWII "nut" and have collected many photos of G.I.'s from that time and have a nazi coin and a Japanese belly flag....any Steven Ambrose book is great reading as is Flags Of Our Fathers for info on that time.
It was horrible and should never be forgotten.

my dad was in germany also!! he got to a concentration camp just after it had been liberated by the russians... was your grandpa in the army??? if he was 101st ozarks division, that would be a real coincidence!

That's a tough one...Here in the states we try our damnest to preserve civil war battlefields...I see it as no different...They should be preserved as close to natural as possible...I think the supports are a good idea...I would hate to see it in ruins...The Jewish folk need to know what it was like for their ancestors...Just like anyone else...

Spank you! I had relatives die in the civil war...I will make that pilgramage someday...When it comes to WWII...That's a bit touchy...There was brutality there that was not seen in the civil war...Innocent lives were taken...They don't need to commercialize it at all...I would love to go there myself...

It has to be saved. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. There are enough nutjobs who deny the Holocaust ever happened. Auschwitz must not be left to rot away. It is the only voice those victims have.

That's a tough one...Here in the states we try our damnest to preserve civil war battlefields...I see it as no different...They should be preserved as close to natural as possible...I think the supports are a good idea...I would hate to see it in ruins...The Jewish folk need to know what it was like for their ancestors...Just like anyone else...

Originally Posted by endsleigh03

They need to preserve it as close as possible to the way it was.

Places like that serve as a constant reminder of what was done and they are important.

This is so true,to change it would be a deseration,it needs to remain as it once was so that it maintains it's meaning and impact.

There's a similar debate in Spain at the moment, during the Spanish civil war thousands were killed and buried in mass graves, some relatives of the victims want to have a "proper" burial for their loved ones remains but others want to leave be.
imo they should preserve the gas chambers "Lest we forget".

They may think by making it "pretty" people will not think so harshly of what went on there? It needs to be the way it was and the way it is..no flowers and no making it a pretty place to visit. There is nothing pretty about what went non in that place.

They may think by making it "pretty" people will not think so harshly of what went on there? It needs to be the way it was and the way it is..no flowers and no making it a pretty place to visit. There is nothing pretty about what went non in that place.

It should be experienced in all it`s horror.....upkeep yeah.....joy rides, hell no

It should be preserved in all it's grimness so that people won't forget. In this country we have the Holocaust museum and the artifacts and energy in there is gripping to say the least. They have an original train car set up that carried people to the death camps, bins of personal goods and mounds of their hair remain. The hair of the jews is what the nazi's sent to mattress factories for stuffing. In one of the galleries are the gate posts from Auschwitz with the slogan "in work there is freedom".It's a 5 story museum, you start at the top and go down a level until you come back to the ground floor. Energy in there so heavy I couldn't make it past the third floor before I had to leave and come back later to finish it.

When I die I'm going to be watching and if anyone yells "REPENT" I'm gonna wallop him hard.

I've never been to Auschwitz but my friend did and she said she couldn't even go in. She said there was just a horrible, heavy feeling in the air and she burst into tears and they couldn't even drag her in the place. She's normally pretty level headed.

When my dad was stationed in Germany in the '70's , he said you could feel it when you drove by. Nobody had to tell them where they were at that point. he said it felt evil.

They may think by making it "pretty" people will not think so harshly of what went on there? It needs to be the way it was and the way it is..no flowers and no making it a pretty place to visit. There is nothing pretty about what went non in that place.

Exactly! You can paint stripes on a pig, but its still a pig. My thought is this: if they did redecorate, could they get rid of the feelings that people report to feel there? Besides, wouldn't the locals make a point of telling all the tourists about how it 'really' was?

An ex-boyfriend went to Auschwitz when his folks went on a trip to Poland. He wasn't phased by it but now I know why. I think all the camps, Bergen-Belsen, Dachau and the others should be preserved as grim reminders of what mankind is capable of.

When I die I'm going to be watching and if anyone yells "REPENT" I'm gonna wallop him hard.

People who deny the Holocaust....Have they not seen videos or pictures?

after various camps were liberated, several of them were opened up to the villagers in the surrounding areas andthey were forced by the Allies to view for themselves what had been happening under their noses for all that time. i have seen video - and reaction goes from stoic defiance to those who want to turn tail and run. i think it was a grim but good way of embedding images into their minds --- but denial still was rampant. some of those who viewed it refused to acknowledge their military would do such horrendous things to other humans.

"To everything - turn, turn, turn...
There is a season - turn, turn, turn...
And a time for every purpose under heaven."
- The Byrds

I've been to the Holocaust muesem in Michigan. (I'm pretty sure I posted a link, maybe in the Anne Frank thread?)

It's incredibly sobering and I pretty much cried all the way through it.

I can see having a memroial park with flowers or trees, across from Auschwitz, or near it, where people can pay their respect for the lives lost, or a chapel or temple. But nothing other than a very respectful monument of what could have been.

Whole families were wiped out. Think of the intellect and the artists and writers and just everyday people who were contributing their bit to society.

I always want to know, how do the deniers explain all the documentation? I mean, film and camera and such weren't exactly advanced then. A doctored picture would be really easy to debunk.

after various camps were liberated, several of them were opened up to the villagers in the surrounding areas andthey were forced by the Allies to view for themselves what had been happening under their noses for all that time. i have seen video - and reaction goes from stoic defiance to those who want to turn tail and run. i think it was a grim but good way of embedding images into their minds --- but denial still was rampant. some of those who viewed it refused to acknowledge their military would do such horrendous things to other humans.

I am a firm believer they knew.....some towns were so close they could smell the burning, decaying flesh........oh they knew alright.....( I`m diggng on your Holiday color print R )

I think it's important to remember that time in history. Also, I think it's important to preserve it for the non-believers in the Holocaust that still exist in the world....like that moron dictator over in Iran

I actually worked for a man who was a Survivor .... he went on to have a fabulous life and was a major contributor to the Holocaust Museum back east ... is it D.C. ? I'm not sure....anyway, his life story is incredibly inspiring...he actually wrote a little book ....I'm not sure if it is something that can be purchased at Barnes and Noble or whatever .... I think it is something that is only available through certain schools. I wish it was something that everyone could read, though. Truly amazing. He ended up passing away from brain cancer in 2000 at 72.

I've been to the Holocaust muesem in Michigan. (I'm pretty sure I posted a link, maybe in the Anne Frank thread?)

It's incredibly sobering and I pretty much cried all the way through it.

I can see having a memroial park with flowers or trees, across from Auschwitz, or near it, where people can pay their respect for the lives lost, or a chapel or temple. But nothing other than a very respectful monument of what could have been.

Whole families were wiped out. Think of the intellect and the artists and writers and just everyday people who were contributing their bit to society.

I always want to know, how do the deniers explain all the documentation? I mean, film and camera and such weren't exactly advanced then. A doctored picture would be really easy to debunk.

Are you talking about the one in Farmington Hills? I went there like last year and there was a display I didn't understand. It was just a glass container filled with paperclips. There wasn't a description by it or anything. Any idea what I'm talking about?

I say don't change it at all but keep it as a historic site. Let Time take it, but don't let anything else ever be built on that site, apart from a monument to mark the most hellish place in the history of humanity.

As for museums, there's Yad Vashem in Israel, and the Holocaust Memorial Museum in DC as well. Very informative as well as sobering.

Most important of all, there's a Testimony Project where any survivor can be videotaped and tell their story of how the Holocaust affected them and their families.
I think any creep that denies the Holocaust (psycho whack jobs they are too), or thugs that deface synagogues, should be sentenced to a hundred hours of viewing Testimony....minimum!

The Holocaust Museum

Originally Posted by endsleigh03

They need to preserve it as close as possible to the way it was.

Places like that serve as a constant reminder of what was done and they are important.

There is an archeological term called arrested decay. That means to preserve from additional deterioration but no restoration beyond the current condition. I think that is appropriate here.
I have never been to any of the camps but I went to the holocaust museum in Washington DC. They give you either a yellow star or a pink triangle with a name on it when you go in. It is the name of a Jew, Gypsy or Homosexual who was in one of the camps. Then as you walk through the museum you see all this fantastically horrific stuff and then last thing they do is let you know whether your person survived or not. You are so invested by then it is devasting when you find out they died.
regards,
Mary

Are you talking about the one in Farmington Hills? I went there like last year and there was a display I didn't understand. It was just a glass container filled with paperclips. There wasn't a description by it or anything. Any idea what I'm talking about?

That's the one. I remember the paperclips, but dang if I remember what is symbolized.

Hmmmm, let me look around their site and see if I can tell. I'll link it again, too, I think it's worth revisiting.