Tom Gabel of Against Me! Comes Out as Transgender
Singer reveals plans to begin living as a woman in the new issue of Rolling Stone

Against Me! singer Tom Gabel reveals plans to begin living as a woman in the new issue of Rolling Stone. Gabel, who has dealt privately with gender dysphoria for years, will soon begin the process of transition, by taking hormones and undergoing electrolysis treatments.

Gabel will eventually take the name Laura Jane Grace, and will remain married to her wife Heather. "For me, the most terrifying thing about this was how she would accept the news," says Gabel. "But she's been super-amazing and understanding."

Gabel only told a handful of family and friends about her plan to transition before talking to Rolling Stone. Because this is the first time a major rock star has come out as transgender, the singer made a point of speaking openly about it. "I'm going to have embarrassing moments," says Gabel, "and that won't be fun. But that's part of what talking to you is about – is hoping people will understand, and hoping they'll be fairly kind."

The full story of Gabel's transformation is in the latest issue, on newsstands this Friday (May 11th). In it, the singer tells Josh Eells about her history of gender dysphoria, the specifics of the transition process and what becoming Laura Jane Grace will mean for the future of Against Me!

I've been a huge fan since the very beginning, and have seen the and Gabel solo many times, as recent as last spring at the Fonda. This is a huge surprise, but I wish him the best of luck, and am super curious to see how this affects his song-writing and vocals.

stinkbutt

05-08-2012, 06:41 PM

This is so bizarre. Their crowd when they opened for Mastodon years ago was very broish, I wonder what will this will mean for their audience demographic.

suprefan

05-08-2012, 06:42 PM

I've been a huge fan since the very beginning, and have seen the and Gabel solo many times, as recent as last spring at the Fonda. This is a huge surprise, but I wish him the best of luck, and am super curious to see how this affects his song-writing and vocals.

Ummmmm, its been there already. Ever read part of the lyrics for ''The Ocean''?

And if I could have chosen, I would have been born a woman
My mother once told me she would have named me Laura
I'd grow up to be strong and beautiful like her
One day, I'd find an honest man to make my husband
We would have two children, build our home on the Gulf of Mexico
Our family would spend hot summer days at the beach together
The sun would kiss our skin as we played in the sand and water
And we would know we loved each other without having to say it

kitt kat

05-08-2012, 06:50 PM

Good for her!! *thumbs up*

theklein25

05-08-2012, 06:52 PM

This band killed it live when I saw them at a small club last year. In terms of what this means for their music I don't wanna know. Hate to admit this but it's kind of disappointing news to me. I still hope Tom can achieve success and live a happy life.

Drinkey McDrinkerstein

05-08-2012, 06:57 PM

Ummmmm, its been there already. Ever read part of the lyrics for ''The Ocean''?

Yes, i am very familiar. Do you take every lyric from every artist you listen to completely literally?

wmgaretjax

05-08-2012, 06:58 PM

the band stopped being good (hell, they were incredible) in 2005. but good for her.

(and in defense of drinkey... gabel regularly sung songs in character, so there was no guarantee that song was autobiographical).

scenicworld

05-08-2012, 07:01 PM

good for her. nothing but support!

sbessiso

05-08-2012, 07:02 PM

Hate to admit this but it's kind of disappointing news to me.

???

Spooks

05-08-2012, 07:05 PM

the band stopped being good (hell, they were incredible) in 2005. but good for her.

(and in defense of drinkey... gabel regularly sung songs in character, so there was no guarantee that song was autobiographical).

This. I stopped listening to them after As the Eternal Cowboy. After that LP, it's been pretty much downhill. I wonder what Fat Mike has to say about all of this...

Drinkey McDrinkerstein

05-08-2012, 07:09 PM

I LOVE As The Eternal Cowboy, and their tour for that album with Lucero is really up there for me, but I still really like their stuff. Overall the following album was really uneven and difficult, I liked a lot of New Wave and thoroughly enjoyed White Crosses.

malcolmjamalawesome

05-08-2012, 07:14 PM

Is there any chance this is total bullshit

bartelby

05-08-2012, 07:14 PM

Lillith Fair just got a bit more interesting.

bartelby

05-08-2012, 07:19 PM

but seriously, good for her....takes guts

SlowMotionApocalypse

05-08-2012, 07:40 PM

I think I retched in my mouth a little bit.

bmack86

05-08-2012, 07:51 PM

Against Me! - Where did it all go wrong?

JustSteve

05-08-2012, 08:26 PM

but seriously, good for her....takes guts

Would have been better if you said "takes balls".

JustSteve

05-08-2012, 08:28 PM

Yes, i am very familiar. Do you take every lyric from every artist you listen to completely literally?

Maybe that song spoke to him in a way...knowhatimsayinwinkface

Spooks

05-08-2012, 08:58 PM

Mike Burkett ‏ @FatMike_of_NOFX

It makes sense now why Against Me called me last week and asked if they could cover My Vagina.

https://twitter.com/#!/FatMike_of_NOFX

darkmoon66

05-09-2012, 12:14 AM

"Confessing childhood secrets of dressing up in women's clothes
Compulsions you never knew the reasons to
Will everyone you ever meet or love
Be just a relationship based on a false presumption?"

This line takes on a whole new meaning for me after hearing this news.

I'm happy to hear her wife is cool with it.

cutterbutter

05-09-2012, 12:17 AM

This is really the first time a major rockstar has come out as transgender? Really? Not to diminish his story or anything.

bartelby

05-09-2012, 04:52 AM

Would have been better if you said "takes balls".

definitely thought about it, but didn't want to be too snarky :)

Spooks

05-09-2012, 05:03 AM

This is really the first time a major rockstar has come out as transgender? Really? Not to diminish his story or anything.

Last summer, Life of Agony singer/founding member Keith Caputo did the same thing.

Why? If someone wishes to present as a woman than I feel it is only respectful to address them with the proper gender (or non-binary gender) pronouns.

scenicworld

05-09-2012, 08:50 AM

Will you people please stop saying "her"!

SHE has more courage than you can ever wish to have.

JorgeC

05-09-2012, 09:01 AM

I'm still in shock, very brave of her. On the musical front, i will definitely be supportive of whatever comes next for Against Me and/or Laura solo.

tigermilkboy

05-09-2012, 09:14 AM

Will you people please stop saying "her"!

What do you suggest? "It"? "That"? As far as I am concerned it should be 'she'.

Phantasma Del Mar

05-09-2012, 09:23 AM

Very strong of her to be so open about this. I wish her the best of luck.

Mr. Fuzz

05-09-2012, 09:31 AM

Look you fuckers, i dont care if this man cuts his penis off and implants some bags in his chest he is still not a female.

Mr. Fuzz

05-09-2012, 09:33 AM

I mean really...are we going to be sewing wings on people and categorizing them as birds...

Hannahrain

05-09-2012, 09:34 AM

You're not thinking critically. Chances of implant rejection should be much lower if the flesh originates from one's own person. For maximum success, his breasts should be made primarily of his own penis.

JorgeC

05-09-2012, 09:37 AM

Was anyone else planning on going to any of the upcoming Cult shows with AM opening? I'm gonna buy a ticket for the Palladium now.

PotVsKtl

05-09-2012, 09:40 AM

Look you fuckers, i dont care if this man cuts his penis off and implants some bags in his chest he is still not a female.

You're in the wrong place, interacting with the wrong people. Consider doing something about it.

amyzzz

05-09-2012, 09:42 AM

Look you fuckers, i dont care if this man cuts his penis off and implants some bags in his chest he is still not a female.I think I've heard they keep part of the penis inside a surgically-made vagina, so she can have sex with sensations or something. Although I am not sure how that would work with her wife. Strap-on dildo sex I guess.

PotVsKtl

05-09-2012, 09:44 AM

amyzzz, missing the point since 1982.

tigermilkboy

05-09-2012, 09:45 AM

he is still not a female.

The law says otherwise, she is she and you have no idea what you are talking about. Next you will be saying same sex marriage is the same as marrying dogs and child rape.

Mr. Fuzz

05-09-2012, 09:49 AM

It's the same as painting white stripes on a black horse and calling it a zebra.

Mr. Fuzz

05-09-2012, 09:51 AM

And isn't this dude pre-op anyways..

algunz

05-09-2012, 09:53 AM

:confused:

PotVsKtl

05-09-2012, 09:56 AM

It's the same as painting white stripes on a black horse and calling it a zebra.

Accepting the fact that a person can have a different gender identity means accepting the fact that they choose how to be identified. If you don't like it you can shut the fuck up.

amyzzz

05-09-2012, 09:57 AM

amyzzz, missing the point since 1982.No, I get the point. I just was not quite sure how to phrase my outrage at Fuzz's opinion, so I went somewhere else.

hangthedj112

05-09-2012, 09:58 AM

My favorite part of the ignorance towards trans people is when others are in shock and awe at "wait you're going to transition to be a female but still have relations with women???"

It's the same as painting white stripes on a black horse and calling it a zebra.

Actually it's not. What she's doing is making the physical, mental, and emotional transition from man to woman. There's no paint involved, just years of physical and emotional hardship. Glad you're grasping this so well.

tigermilkboy

05-09-2012, 09:59 AM

It's the same as painting white stripes on a black horse and calling it a zebra.

No it is not the same thing at all.

amyzzz

05-09-2012, 10:01 AM

Anyways, mr. fuzz nobody gives a fuck about your transphobic trolling, I'm sure you're from some backwards ass state like Arizona or Utah anyways.Fuck you. Don't generalize people from certain states. There are a lot of broadminded people from those states RIGHT HERE ON THE BOARD. You fuck.

edit: I, for one, am now interested in listening to this band with whom I am not familiar after this revelation.

captncrzy

05-09-2012, 10:04 AM

Will you people please stop saying "her"!

I was going to try and post a reasonable "stop being so hung up on using sex organs to identify gender" essay, but I don't see the point. You're obviously just trolling or a fucking asshole. Probably both.

bmack86

05-09-2012, 10:07 AM

The law says otherwise, she is she and you have no idea what you are talking about. Next you will be saying same sex marriage is the same as marrying dogs and child rape.

Now this is an issue my roommate and I discussed last night. Most states haven't really touched the issue yet, but if he's in a state that does not recognize gay marriage but does recognize that a person may change his or her gender, what does that do to his marriage once he transitions? Is he in a legal grey area where the state recognizes him as a man for marriage so as to not invalidate a marriage license they validly authorized while still recognizing her as a woman for everything else, or is it blanket woman, and if so what would they do to the marriage license?

Leave it to the guy in law school to think of everything! I didn't think of that either but now am really curious as well.

Miroir Noir

05-09-2012, 10:13 AM

I would think that absent some sort of specific statutory directive on the issue, a court would be inclined to continue to recognize the marriage as valid. I am trying to think of how such a case would end up in the courts though . . . denial of state or federal spousal benefits or privileges? not sure that your garden variety defense of marriage conservative legal interest groups would have standing to challenge the validity of a preexisting marriage.

On a far less serious note, wasn't this the subject of a South Park episode?

amyzzz

05-09-2012, 10:14 AM

I'm thinking the state won't recognize the person's gender change and the marriage will remain legal.

SoulDischarge

05-09-2012, 10:16 AM

Zebraphobic.

scenicworld

05-09-2012, 10:20 AM

typically the requirements are only to get a marriage license in the first place. There aren't any checks and balances to ensure that once the marriage license is issued that a person still has the same name, gender or even physical address that they had when the license was issued. once you're married in the eyes of the state, the marriage cannot be dissolved without one of the parties initiating it.

that said, when children are involved and the couple goes through a divorce, there can be many complications resulting from a gender change especially when the state doesn't recognize same sex marriage or allow the individual to change their birth certificate.

JorgeC

05-09-2012, 10:21 AM

The marriage is still legal. But if she were to be divorced and tried to get married again (to a woman) post-op, then it wouldn't be recognized in a state that does not allow same-sex marriage. All depends on each state law, but i'm sure these are all lawsuits that will eventually make their way up to each state's supreme court.

Mr. Fuzz

05-09-2012, 10:21 AM

Accepting the fact that a person can have a different gender identity means accepting the fact that they choose how to be identified. If you don't like it you can shut the fuck up.

He ain't changing his birth certificate. You can't choose how you were born.

bmack86

05-09-2012, 10:22 AM

I would think that absent some sort of specific statutory directive on the issue, a court would be inclined to continue to recognize the marriage as valid. I am trying to think of how such a case would end up in the courts though . . . denial of state or federal spousal benefits or privileges? not sure that your garden variety defense of marriage conservative legal interest groups would have standing to challenge the validity of a preexisting marriage.

I'm thinking the state won't recognize the person's gender change and the marriage will remain legal.

I would imagine the state or federal actors would deny rights that would get them into court, but it would have to occur after the state recognized that their marriage is now in violation of the state's prohibition. If they wanted to be bold, they could bring a declaratory judgment action and have the state decide whether or not their marriage is still valid.

That being said, I imagine that what Amy said is right and that the state will likely stay out of it. Although, he's from Florida, and that's an area where the state might go more hard line against any unclear marriage definition.

Like I said, fascinating.

JorgeC

05-09-2012, 10:24 AM

I, for one, am now interested in listening to this band with whom I am not familiar after this revelation.

Amy, start with New Wave. I'm sure many like the earlier stuff, but this is them at their "shiniest"/mainstream.

Hannahrain

05-09-2012, 10:25 AM

He ain't changing his birth certificate. You can't choose how you were born.

People born with heart conditions and are sometimes given artificial hearts. How is this different?

PotVsKtl

05-09-2012, 10:26 AM

He ain't changing his birth certificate. You can't choose how you were born.

Time to spackle your chilihole closed.

Drinkey McDrinkerstein

05-09-2012, 10:31 AM

If you don't understand the fundamentals of a situation, then you shouldn't be arguing about it. If you want to be angry about someone's sexual identity, at least go read a fucking book about the subject so that you don't look like a tremendous ignoramus every time you spout something off.

Mr. Fuzz

05-09-2012, 10:55 AM

People born with heart conditions and are sometimes given artificial hearts. How is this different?

A collection of the some the tweets/blogs of support from the punk community

greghead

05-09-2012, 11:01 AM

You can't choose how you were born.

No, but you can choose how you live.

Mr. Fuzz

05-09-2012, 11:03 AM

If you don't understand the fundamentals of a situation, then you shouldn't be arguing about it. If you want to be angry about someone's sexual identity, at least go read a fucking book about the subject so that you don't look like a tremendous ignoramus every time you spout something off.

Read a book about identity, please! You can't choose your identity. Its impossible.

amyzzz

05-09-2012, 11:05 AM

Read a book about identity, please! You can't choose your identity. Its impossible.You think she would choose to be a woman in a man's body? I don't think so.

Drinkey McDrinkerstein

05-09-2012, 11:09 AM

Read a book about identity, please! You can't choose your identity. Its impossible.

So are you also of the thought that people choose to be gay?

Mr. Fuzz

05-09-2012, 11:11 AM

A transgender "women" is not the same as a natural born women. They may look similar postop but they do not share the same identity. The never will.

Drinkey McDrinkerstein

05-09-2012, 11:13 AM

Thanks for the insight, doctor.

Mr. Fuzz

05-09-2012, 11:14 AM

So are you also of the thought that people choose to be gay?

This is irrelevant. This man has never stated that he is a homosexual. Transgender and homos aren't the same either even though they share the same human rights struggle.

Mr. Fuzz

05-09-2012, 11:17 AM

Thanks for the insight, doctor.

I'm not a Doctor(I hope you mean Philosipher) but you can call me Master.

tigermilkboy

05-09-2012, 11:18 AM

A transgender "women" is not the same as a natural born women. They may look similar postop but they do not share the same identity. The never will.

So Caster Semenya, man or woman?

Drinkey McDrinkerstein

05-09-2012, 11:19 AM

I'm not a Doctor(I hope you mean Philosipher) but you can call me Master.

I would never mean "Philosipher"

This is irrelevant. This man has never stated that he is a homosexual. Transgender and homos aren't the same either even though they share the same human rights struggle.

it is not irrelevant. No, he's not gay, and you're right, transgender and homosexuality are not the same thing. The point is that you claimed that transgender people make a cognitive choice, the same argument that a lot of people who are anti-homosexual have.

greghead

05-09-2012, 11:21 AM

Read a book about identity, please! You can't choose your identity. Its impossible.

This doesn't really make sense to me. What, to you, constitutes "identity" and why is it a strictly inherent, innate thing?

I'm not being dismissive or rude, I'm genuinely curious about your view of personal identity.

Mr. Fuzz

05-09-2012, 11:22 AM

So Caster Semenya, man or woman?

Ah-hah! Is a persons identity for me to determine...

captncrzy

05-09-2012, 11:25 AM

NO. IT'S NOT FOR YOU TO DETERMINE, YOU FUCKING IDIOT.

scenicworld

05-09-2012, 11:26 AM

why are you guys responding to the obvious troll??

herp derp not a real woman... philosiphing

amyzzz

05-09-2012, 11:29 AM

why are you guys responding to the obvious troll??

herp derp not a real woman... philosiphingThis discussion is interesting to me.

scenicworld

05-09-2012, 11:31 AM

usually a discussion goes both ways, but here it's just one person pretending to know what he's talking about and a bunch of others showing him how stupid he's being.

Mr. Fuzz

05-09-2012, 11:32 AM

NO. IT'S NOT FOR YOU TO DETERMINE, YOU FUCKING IDIOT.

Then how can you say that this guy can choose how we identify him. I don't see why we don't call him what he is...

tigermilkboy

05-09-2012, 11:34 AM

Ah-hah! Is a persons identity for me to determine...

No! But that is what you have done.

Mr. Fuzz

05-09-2012, 11:41 AM

No it's not. He was born a man. Now he is living as a transgender. He will never, truly, be a woman.

Phunkevil

05-09-2012, 11:43 AM

What? Mr. Fuzz said something homophobic/retarded? Shocking.

Mr. Fuzz

05-09-2012, 11:47 AM

Transgender doesn't mean homosexual.

Pixiessp

05-09-2012, 11:47 AM

Why are people giving this Fuzz thing the time of day? Ignore it and it will go away.

Phunkevil

05-09-2012, 11:52 AM

He needs to go back to his frat house.

scenicworld

05-09-2012, 11:54 AM

agreed, Pixiessp.

it's a predictable argument and he's already entering the "not a real woman" phase which he will justify because Laura cannot give birth to a child (forgetting that many women are also unable to conceive) and then next will be the chromosome argument that will overlook all the XXY people. it's pathetic.

amyzzz

05-09-2012, 11:57 AM

Sexual identity interests me a great deal so I like having a discussion about it, even with the trolls.

greghead

05-09-2012, 12:03 PM

Ah-hah! Is a persons identity for me to determine...

No, so why are you insisting on defining this person to coincide with your own worldview?

And, uh, *cough* when you find a moment:

This doesn't really make sense to me. What, to you, constitutes "identity" and why is it a strictly inherent, innate thing?

ocbruin84

05-09-2012, 12:06 PM

serious question because i'm just skimming this at work...so is it enough to just "feel" you are a woman to 'make' you a woman?

nyarlathotoats

05-09-2012, 12:06 PM

Have to concur on what's been said before:

Very happy for the man who has decided to go with his heart. It ain't fucking easy for any person who goes against the grain of what is acceptable or taboo. It takes great courage.

So congrats!

scenicworld

05-09-2012, 12:10 PM

serious question because i'm just skimming this at work...so is it enough to just "feel" you are a woman to 'make' you a woman?

transfolk don't wake up one day and go "hmmmm, I wish I was a different gender today" if that's what you mean. it's most often a life-long struggle involving countless hours of therapy to gain the courage and self confidence that what you feel inside is how you should present to the world.

A collection of the some the tweets/blogs of support from the punk community

Aww, AP is the first forum I ever posted on. Glad they compiled all the tweets in one place, cool to see.

Newro7ic

05-09-2012, 12:15 PM

This is irrelevant. This man has never stated that he is a homosexual. Transgender and homos aren't the same either even though they share the same human rights struggle.

it is not irrelevant. No, he's not gay, and you're right, transgender and homosexuality are not the same thing. The point is that you claimed that transgender people make a cognitive choice, the same argument that a lot of people who are anti-homosexual have.

If she identifies as a woman, and is married to a woman, and plans to stay with this woman, does that not make her homosexual?

Pixiessp

05-09-2012, 12:18 PM

If she identifies as a woman, and is married to a woman, and plans to stay with this woman, does that not make her homosexual?

It means she's in love.

casey

05-09-2012, 12:23 PM

If she identifies as a woman, and is married to a woman, and plans to stay with this woman, does that not make her homosexual?

What about the reverse argument? Tom's wife married him as a man and wasn't homosexual then. Now she is choosing to stay in her marriage...does that make HER a homosexual? No.

It means she's in love.

Exactly.

Mr. Fuzz

05-09-2012, 12:24 PM

transfolk don't wake up one day and go "hmmmm, I wish I was a different gender today" if that's what you mean. it's most often a life-long struggle involving countless hours of therapy to gain the courage and self confidence that what you feel inside is how you should present to the world.

So, you're obviously transgender, right? And you speak on behalf of of every transgender person...

sbessiso

05-09-2012, 12:25 PM

Mr. Fuzz, you know I like you man. You need to step out of yourself for a minute and listen to this, its a very sensitive subject and shouldnt be disregarded like that.

scenicworld

05-09-2012, 12:25 PM

So, you're obviously transgender, right? And you speak on behalf of of every transgender person...

I have enough ties to the transgender community to know what I'm talking about.

TomAz

05-09-2012, 12:26 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_construction_of_gender_difference

Phunkevil

05-09-2012, 12:31 PM

Mr. Fuzz, you know I like you man.

Why? Dude's clearly homophobic. Not talking about this thread either.

Mr. Fuzz

05-09-2012, 12:32 PM

I have enough ties to the transgender community to know what I'm talking about.

Nobody universally understands human sexuality and gender identity issues. That's a fact. You fools are no different than a bunch of Jesus loving freaks trying to convince me that you understand.

cutterbutter

05-09-2012, 12:33 PM

I really enjoyed the first page of this thread.

scenicworld

05-09-2012, 12:34 PM

Laura has a pretty good understanding of HER human sexuality and gender identity issues. That's a fact.

Mr. Fuzz

05-09-2012, 12:35 PM

Mr. Fuzz, you know I like you man. You need to step out of yourself for a minute and listen to this, its a very sensitive subject and shouldnt be disregarded like that.

I didn't recognize you with that new avi. I thought you were Julloxx. = )

Newro7ic

05-09-2012, 12:35 PM

It means she's in love.

I never said otherwise.

What about the reverse argument? Tom's wife married him as a man and wasn't homosexual then. Now she is choosing to stay in her marriage...does that make HER a homosexual? No.

This is a good question. How will she handle it when all is said and done? If she's not into women, will the relationship be able to last? I am not one of those staunch believers that love conquers all.

I have no horse in this race. I believe people can do whatever the hell they want to themselves, it's their life. The dynamic of the relationship will be interesting, though.

Mr. Fuzz

05-09-2012, 12:36 PM

Laura has a pretty good understanding of HER human sexuality and gender identity issues. That's a fact.

Please don't speak for him.

amyzzz

05-09-2012, 12:38 PM

I remember NPR recently doing a "Story Core" piece about a man who changed into a woman and his wife stayed with him too. It's not unthinkable.

scenicworld

05-09-2012, 12:39 PM

successful troll is successful.
:rolleyes

Drinkey McDrinkerstein

05-09-2012, 12:46 PM

If she identifies as a woman, and is married to a woman, and plans to stay with this woman, does that not make her homosexual?

This is an interesting question, though not related to the argument I was having.

Mr. Fuzz

05-09-2012, 12:52 PM

New York Dolls eat these kids for breakfast.

SoulDischarge

05-09-2012, 01:07 PM

Way to turn transgender social issues into a dick measuring contest.

Mugwog

05-09-2012, 01:11 PM

ITT: The truly intolerant call themselves out.

ocbruin84

05-09-2012, 01:15 PM

For the record I love New York Dolls & Against Me!

Mugwog

05-09-2012, 01:18 PM

Amazed at how far this thread went in 7 hours. Someone wants to be a woman, good for them, I wish more people could have what it takes to bravely stand up for what they believe in.

I tripped out when I realized one I my second cousins was a trans, but she's happy with who she is and apparently so is the guy she's been seeing.

Miroir Noir

05-09-2012, 02:28 PM

By the way, is it okay that I had no idea who the fuck Against Me! were before today? I can only assume that they sound like Panic! At This Disco, as both bands are apparently exclamation mark enthusiasts.

Mugwog

05-09-2012, 02:29 PM

I think its ok to not know every single band on earth (well except on this forum according to some)

TomAz

05-09-2012, 02:37 PM

Ignore all this stupid blather. The important question is, is she going to be a chick with a dick, or is she gonna get it cut off?

Drinkey McDrinkerstein

05-09-2012, 02:43 PM

I will probably buy the Rolling Stone issue on Friday and find out.

amyzzz

05-09-2012, 02:44 PM

WHAT TOM SAID.

PotVsKtl

05-09-2012, 02:45 PM

I volunteer to turn her genitalia inside out with my genitalia.

PotVsKtl

05-09-2012, 02:45 PM

It's like popping bubble wrap.

Hannahrain

05-09-2012, 02:48 PM

I'm not sure your postules are the incentive you think they are.

Mugwog

05-09-2012, 02:50 PM

No wonder Pot gets so upset about pictures of girls in bikinis, he wants them to have a lump in the front

PotVsKtl

05-09-2012, 02:52 PM

There are a million places on the internet you can start threads about vacuous bimbos and then announce how you're going to bruise her cervix and whatnot with your superimpressive junk. It won't be here.

5 years on this board and i've never put anyone on ignore. today could be a first for me.

gaypalmsprings

05-09-2012, 03:24 PM

[QUOTE=Miroir Noir;2490555]By the way, is it okay that I had no idea who the fuck Against Me! were before today? [QUOTE]

Don't let suprefan find out.

TomAz

05-09-2012, 03:42 PM

By the way, is it okay that I had no idea who the fuck Against Me! were before today? I can only assume that they sound like Panic! At This Disco, as both bands are apparently exclamation mark enthusiasts.

My 8 children are well cared for by the state of California. Just another lifestyle choice, right?

SlowMotionApocalypse

05-09-2012, 04:21 PM

Hey I briefly shared a place with my gay cousin so I have somewhat of an understanding of sexual deviancy, but this is far beyond what any reasonable person would accept as normal behaviour. I am sure a lot of people here are also disgusted by it but want to show what good tolerant diverse people they are in front of all their Coachella peers.

amyzzz

05-09-2012, 04:22 PM

I'm intrigued by it.

gaypalmsprings

05-09-2012, 04:23 PM

Hey I briefly shared a place with my gay cousin so I have somewhat of an understanding of sexual deviancy, but this is far beyond what any reasonable person would accept as normal behaviour. I am sure a lot of people here are also disgusted by it but want to show what good tolerant diverse people they are in front of all their Coachella peers.

I hope you are just kidding. Srsly.

PotVsKtl

05-09-2012, 04:28 PM

Amy. Seriously. Please. Shut up. You're intrigued by tinfoil balls wedged in low branches. You don't have the intellectual capacity to participate in an egg toss.

Got this issue in the mail yesterday but just got around to reading the story. It's a really good read and I suggest it to everyone. And yes, he did think the lyrics of The Ocean would out him, but said the only person who suspected anything was Butch Vig. Really interesting read.

cutterbutter

05-09-2012, 09:30 PM

Just a friendly PSA since some people in here are not using either/or correctly:

The distinction between sex and gender is a concept that distinguishes sex, the biological makeup of an individual's reproductive anatomy, from gender, an individual's lifestyle often culturally learned.
- "Sex vs. Gender." International Journal of Transgenderism.

gaypalmsprings

05-10-2012, 04:42 AM

Argentina makes sex-change surgery a legal right

May 9, 2012 11:06 PM

BUENOS AIRES, Argentina — Adults who want sex-change surgery or hormone therapy in Argentina will be able to get it as part of their public or private health care plans under a gender rights law approved Wednesday.

The measure also gives people the right to specify how their gender is listed at the civil registry when their physical characteristics don't match how they see themselves.

Senators approved the Gender Identity law by a vote of 55-0, with one abstention and more than a dozen senators declaring themselves absent — the same margin that approved a "death with dignity" law earlier in the day.

President Cristina Fernandez threw her support behind the law and is expected to sign it. She has often said how proud she is that Argentina became Latin America's first nation to legalize gay marriage two years ago, enabling thousands of same-sex couples to wed and enjoy the same legal rights as married heterosexual couples.

For many, gender rights were the next step.

Any adult will now be able to officially change his or her gender, image and birth name without having to get approval from doctors or judges — and without having to undergo physical changes beforehand, as many U.S. jurisdictions require.

"It's saying you can change your gender legally without having to change your body at all. That's unheard of," said Katrina Karkazis, a Stanford University medical anthropologist and bioethicst who wrote a book, "Fixing Sex," about the medical and legal treatment of people whose physical characteristics don't fully match their gender identity.

"There's a whole set of medical criteria that people have to meet to change their gender in the U.S., and meanwhile this gives the individual an extraordinary amount of authority for how they want to live. It's really incredible," she said.

When Argentines want to change their bodies, health care companies will have to provide them with surgery or hormone therapy on demand. Such treatments will be included in the "Obligatory Medical Plan," which means both private and public providers will not be able to charge extra for the services.

"This law is going to enable many of us to have light, to come out of the darkness, to appear," said Sen. Osvaldo Lopez of Tierra del Fuego, the only openly gay national lawmaker in Argentina.

"There are many people in our country who also deserve the power to exist," Lopez said.

Children also get a voice under the law: Youths under 18 who want to change their genders gain the right to do so with the approval of their legal guardians. But if parents or guardians want a gender identity change and don't have the child's consent, then a judge must intervene to ensure the child's rights are protected.

"This isn't going to create a huge demand on the national health system for these procedures. They're difficult, painful, irreversible. And this is why many people don't do it," she said.

But because the law says people can legally change their identities without having to undergo genital surgery or hormone therapy, these changes can be more benign and even reversible, if some day the person's self-image changes.

Other countries, including neighboring Uruguay, have passed gender rights laws, but Argentina's "is in the forefront of the world" because of these benefits it guarantees, said Cesar Cigliutti, president of the Homosexual Community of Argentina.

"This is truly a human right: the right to happiness," Sen. Miguel Pichetto said during the debate.

algunz

05-10-2012, 07:27 AM

There are a million places on the internet you can start threads about vacuous bimbos and then announce how you're going to bruise her cervix and whatnot with your superimpressive junk. It won't be here.

That should be the name of Laura's next band - Bruised Cervix

SlowMotionApocalypse

05-10-2012, 07:35 AM

Just a friendly PSA since some people in here are not using either/or correctly:

The distinction between sex and gender is a concept that distinguishes sex, the biological makeup of an individual's reproductive anatomy, from gender, an individual's lifestyle often culturally learned.

- "Sex vs. Gender." International Journal of Transgenderism.

So this is most likely the result of a botched upbringing?

JustSteve

05-10-2012, 07:48 AM

why keep proving how dumb you are?

cutterbutter

05-10-2012, 08:02 AM

Gender identity is only defined by our culture is what it is saying. The idea of a woman or man varies from place to place. The persons SEX is defined by their biological makeup such as xx or xy chromosome or having a penis or vagina. Obviously there are surgeries to change these things to help people match their own gender identity, but they can only go so far.

This is intro psych/human sexuality stuff. Shit, you can just google sex vs gender and get a not so inane explanation from multiple sources.

His upbringing probably had lent to the desire to become a woman in some fashion, especially living in a positive environment where he knows that option is a possible one, but a lot of lgbt report this interest/desire/feeling whatever you want to call it from birth/early cognitive age. It isnt an absolute learned behavior.

Sorry if someone finds some hole in what I said. Im just trying communicate these ideas simply.

TomAz

05-10-2012, 08:10 AM

Gender identity is only defined by our culture is what it is saying. The idea of a woman or man varies from place to place. The persons SEX is defined by their biological makeup such as xx or xy chromosome or having a penis or vagina. Obviously there are surgeries to change these things to help people match their own gender identity, but they can only go so far.

This is intro psych/human sexuality stuff. Shit, you can just google sex vs gender and get a not so inane explanation from multiple sources.

Or you could just read the wikipedia article I posted two pages back.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_construction_of_gender_difference

cutterbutter

05-10-2012, 08:14 AM

Lowest common denominator... Someone can't understand the one sentence I copied you expect them to follow that whole article.

greghead

05-10-2012, 09:14 AM

So this is most likely the result of a botched upbringing?

That's assuming there's something wrong with her decision. Which, of course, would be incorrect.

Mr. Fuzz

05-10-2012, 11:19 AM

Our culture doesn't define transgender people as "him" or "she". We call them "cross dressers" or "transgender". Folks have been doing it in "rock bands" for the last 50 years (and in cultures since the beginning of time). There is nothing shocking or brave about. It's really hard for me to think of a band, that I enjoy, that doesn't play with androgyny. Bands like the Dolls, Stooges, Cramps, Stones, Nirvana, Smashing Pumpkins, Tool, Madonna have all made it kind of normal.

guedita

05-10-2012, 11:31 AM

Oh dear.

algunz

05-10-2012, 11:32 AM

You are so misinformed.

amyzzz

05-10-2012, 11:36 AM

Playing with androgyny is a completely different thing than identifying yourself as the opposite gender, silly.

HotHamWater

05-10-2012, 11:37 AM

Our culture doesn't define transgender people as "him" or "she". We call them "cross dressers" or "transgender". Folks have been doing it in "rock bands" for the last 50 years (and in cultures since the beginning of time). There is nothing shocking or brave about. It's really hard for me to think of a band, that I enjoy, that doesn't play with androgyny. Bands like the Dolls, Stooges, Cramps, Stones, Nirvana, Smashing Pumpkins, Tool, Madonna have all made it kind of normal.

One of the most ignorant posts I've read on this board.

Hannahrain

05-10-2012, 11:37 AM

That's like comparing somebody dressed in a hot nurse outfit for halloween to somebody studying to be a nurse. They're not the same.

guedita

05-10-2012, 11:39 AM

Well now what the fuck am I supposed to do with my HOT NURSE DIPLOMA I had framed and mounted on my wall after last Halloween, Hannah? Now the fuck what?

psychic friend

05-10-2012, 11:42 AM

Can someone please post that instructional graphic that shows board members how to use the ignore function? There is an ignore function!! Please use it. Stop spamming me.

Riggins33

05-10-2012, 11:44 AM

She just wants to dance and drink all night, and no ones gonna stop her.... This shit is a little strange, does this mean his wife's a lesbian now? I think he should be able to do whatever heshe wants but, this is still a little weird, for family, friends, fans.

amyzzz

05-10-2012, 11:47 AM

Mr Fuzz has not done anything to be banned, apparently. :)

guedita

05-10-2012, 11:47 AM

YEAH IT'S A LITTLE WEIRD FOR FANS HOW UNTHOUGHTFUL

Footsteps86

05-10-2012, 11:56 AM

She just wants to dance and drink all night, and no ones gonna stop her.... This shit is a little strange, does this mean his wife's a lesbian now? I think he should be able to do whatever heshe wants but, this is still a little weird, for family, friends, fans.
Tom's wife expresses her confusion about this in the article as well. He says that other than making out with some guys years ago, he's never been attracted to guys. Tom also says in the article that at one point he had decided to fully commit to accepting living life as a man around the time their daughter was born, but his feelings eventually came back too strong.

Riggins33

05-10-2012, 12:01 PM

YEAH IT'S A LITTLE WEIRD FOR FANS HOW UNTHOUGHTFUL

Yeah it is weird for fans, not that he has to give a shit, but it is.

Drinkey McDrinkerstein

05-10-2012, 12:01 PM

Can someone please post that instructional graphic that shows board members how to use the ignore function? There is an ignore function!! Please use it. Stop spamming me.

People really report and complain just because someone is being a total moron?

amyzzz

05-10-2012, 12:03 PM

People should only report spamming, obscenity and extreme harassment.

Grandma

05-10-2012, 12:05 PM

CHICKS WITH DICKS

psychic friend

05-10-2012, 12:06 PM

OK I FOUND IT.. IF SOMEONE SAYS SOMETHING MEAN TO YOU OR SOMETHING YOU DONT AGREE WITH, UNLESS ITS PORN OR BLATENT HATE SPEECH, THEN JUST USE THE IGNORE FEATURE INSTEAD OF FEEDING THE TROLL OR SPAMMING MY INBOX. KTHXBYE

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/9238/ignoreu.jpg

Pixiessp

05-10-2012, 12:07 PM

It's sad to see that this is still going on and that Miss Fuzz is not the only misinformed and insensitive putz we have to deal with.

PotVsKtl

05-10-2012, 12:08 PM

This is what happens when you refuse to allow a strong man such as myself to administer the internet board.

Neighborhood Creep

05-10-2012, 12:08 PM

Fuzz: Stuck in the 50s

Pixiessp

05-10-2012, 12:12 PM

Fuzz: Stuck in the 50s

Where the minimum wage was 25 cents. No related but interesting fact.

psychic friend

05-10-2012, 12:19 PM

This is what happens when you refuse to allow a strong man such as myself to administer the internet board.

remember when most of the board wanted me to ban you????

amyzzz

05-10-2012, 12:23 PM

I remember when Pot used to make me cry. It doesn't work anymore, Pot.

captncrzy

05-10-2012, 12:24 PM

I would think that everyone would know by now that being a retard isn't a banable offense.

SlowMotionApocalypse

05-10-2012, 12:24 PM

Will he still have to get prostate exams?

PotVsKtl

05-10-2012, 12:36 PM

remember when most of the board wanted me to ban you????

A strong and stalwart individual such as myself would never ban me.

Mugwog

05-10-2012, 12:39 PM

I would think that everyone would know by now that being a retard isn't a bannable offense.
sig'd
(fixt)

hippityhip

05-10-2012, 12:45 PM

This shit is a little strange, does this mean his wife's a lesbian now? I think he should be able to do whatever heshe wants but, this is still a little weird, for family, friends, fans.

I knew a lesbian who married a dude that turned into a woman. True story. Never understood how that works out but to each his own I guess.

luckyface

05-10-2012, 01:24 PM

Seriously, why you people are getting riled up by obvious trolls is just beyond me. If you ignore them, they go away. This is Internet 101 people.

amyzzz

05-10-2012, 01:28 PM

Some people like arguing and getting riled up. So Shut the fuck up.

TomAz

05-10-2012, 01:31 PM

CHICKS WITH DICKS

This is still the only valid question.

amyzzz

05-10-2012, 01:34 PM

I really need to buy that magazine.

Mugwog

05-10-2012, 01:37 PM

CHICKS WITH DICKS

I feel for a gig poster, this font/color would work perfectly for a band with that name.

AlecEiffel

05-10-2012, 01:43 PM

I feel for a gig poster, this font/color would work perfectly for a band with that name.

Reminds me of this

7304

JustSteve

05-10-2012, 01:59 PM

That's like comparing somebody dressed in a hot nurse outfit for halloween to somebody studying to be a nurse. They're not the same.

and as someone who is in seemingly constant contact with them, it is complete bullshit. hot nurses in slutty outfits would make the hospital much more tolerable, i don't think i have had one attractive nurse in my 20 or so years of being hospitalized.

amyzzz

05-10-2012, 02:00 PM

Some sort of mish mash between a gentleman's club and a hospital?

TomAz

05-10-2012, 02:23 PM

and as someone who is in seemingly constant contact with them, it is complete bullshit. hot nurses in slutty outfits would make the hospital much more tolerable, i don't think i have had one attractive nurse in my 20 or so years of being hospitalized.

no 'poor guy, stuck in the hospital all alone, let's help him out'? damn. I thought those Penthouse letters were real.

amyzzz

05-10-2012, 02:27 PM

Find out where Barb works.

greghead

05-10-2012, 03:40 PM

OK I FOUND IT.. IF SOMEONE SAYS SOMETHING MEAN TO YOU OR SOMETHING YOU DONT AGREE WITH, UNLESS ITS PORN OR BLATANT HATE SPEECH, THEN JUST USE THE IGNORE FEATURE INSTEAD OF FEEDING THE TROLL OR SPAMMING MY INBOX. KTHXBYE

Was anyone else planning on going to any of the upcoming Cult shows with AM opening? I'm gonna buy a ticket for the Palladium now.

I'm going to this show. I don't know if this makes it better or weirder... but I'm not a fan of their music, so it'll probably be a complete non-event.

cutterbutter

05-28-2012, 02:09 AM

Against Me!'s Tom Gabel Makes Live Debut as Laura Jane Grace in San Diego
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/against-me-s-tom-gabel-makes-live-debut-as-laura-jane-grace-in-san-diego-20120526#ixzz1w9q9st6b

Against Me! singer-guitarist Tommy Gabel made her live debut as Laura Jane Grace on Friday, performing with the band under her new name for the first time since coming out as transgender.

Charging through a 40-minute set at Humphreys Concerts by the Bay in San Diego – the first stop in a month-long U.S. tour with British rockers the Cult – the quartet played six new songs, including the rollicking anthem "Transgender Dysphoria Blues," the title track of an album they're working on. Decked out in a loose-fitting black tank top, tight black jeans and black eye shadow, Grace was in high spirits as she delivered her trademark, throat-shredding screams.

"I was worried that some people expected me to come out looking like Little Bo Peep or something," Grace said after the show while hanging out at the merch table with her wife, Heather. (They're doing the tour as a family; their toddler daughter, Evelyn, was sleeping with a nanny in the tour bus.)

Though Grace says she's open to having a dialogue about her transition with fans, she kept stage banter to a minimum and never brought up her coming out or new name in between songs. Since many of the concertgoers were Cult fans who weren't familiar with Against Me!, the show wasn't exactly ideal for a punk-rock heart-to-heart.

"She did it for herself, not for anybody else. This is about her," he said. "She's doing something she really loves now and she's really happy – that's really awesome."

Thanks to the outdoor venue's seating arrangements, a mosh pit never did break out during the set, but a handful of fans got up to sing along. When Grace belted out the lines to "The Ocean," a revealing track from the band's 2007 album New Wave – "If I could have chosen / I would have been born a woman" – fans broke into cheers and applause.

"I really support her in being able to come out to everyone," said Maddie Leyland, 18. "I'm excited to see what happens to the band, too, what they all do with it."

Grace is two weeks into hormone replacement therapy. The process involves redistribution of her body's muscle mass, and she was worried about how it would affect her stamina. The band talked before the show about taking some time between songs, but they ended up just powering through the set. The only problem Grace encountered was her guitar cutting out during one song.

While the band spanned its discography with classics like "Pints of Guinness Make You Strong" and "I Was a Teenage Anarchist," much of the set was devoted to new songs: "Osama bin Laden as the Crucified Christ," "Dead Friend," "True Trans Soul Rebel," "Drinking with the Jocks" and "Black Me Out."

Though some fans at the concert wondered how the hormones would affect Grace's voice, Eryn Ramynke, 22, looks forward to any changes that may come. Really, the only issue that seemed to concern her was the venue's many plastic chairs.

"This is crazy," she said. "I didn't know Against Me! played places that had seats."

Haven't followed up on this thread but finally got around to reading the article last week.

gaypalmsprings

05-28-2012, 08:41 AM

Her voice will gradually change due to the hormone treatments.

scenicworld

05-28-2012, 08:47 AM

Actually, hormones will have little effect on her voice. for MTF transsexuals, it takes training to get the voice into a desirable range/timbre whereas FTMs can take the full advantage of a second puberty and have their voices drop naturally.

gaypalmsprings

05-28-2012, 08:51 AM

Actually, hormones will have little effect on her voice. for MTF transsexuals, it takes training to get the voice into a desirable range/timbre whereas FTMs can take the full advantage of a second puberty and have their voices drop naturally.

I stand corrected. "While hormone replacement therapy and gender reassignment surgery can cause a more feminine outward appearance, they do little to alter the pitch or sound of the voice."

disgustipated

05-28-2012, 09:33 AM

transgender does'nt necessarilly mean sex change, right? I havent followed this too closely. is he planning the procedure or just going through the hormone treatments?

so the guy feels feminine and wants to carry himself/herself that way. I don't see why anyone should give a shit. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out with their fanbase, though.