Author
Topic: The Early Music Club (EMC) (Read 148847 times)

Is anyone here into Medieval Music? I just discovered a real swinging lady who was not mentioned in Grout when I was studying Music History. I thought to start a thread on Hildegard von Bingen (1098-1179) as a composer in her own write, but it may be more interesting to compare her to others.

"...When few women were accorded respect, she was consulted by and advised bishops, popes, and kings. She used the curative powers of natural objects for healing, and wrote treatises about natural history and medicinal uses of plants, animals, trees and stones. She is the first composer whose biography is known. She founded a vibrant convent, where her musical plays were performed..."

There is a clip in the new Norton Anthology, done really well (more lively than some other recordings) of the "In Principio" from her largely plainchant "Ordo Virtutem" (the Play of the Virtues) for 27 women's voices and one man (the devil). Well, she was mainly surrounded by nuns so the preference for female voices is understandable...

I love pre-baroque early music, although I don't have a particularly great knowledge of it on a technical level.

My favourites are Hildegard, Alfonso X's Cantigas de Santa Maria (I believe it's unsure which are attributed to him, and many are certainly by others, so generally they are all referred to as "his" works, but he just collected and published them), Pérotin, Dunstaple (very late medieval, but he is too wonderful to decide to leave out...) and above all Machaut, who, to me, is the only medieval composer who compares to renaissance era composers in terms of large surviving output, and is one of the rare medieval composers who can be understood sort of as a person rather than an almost anonymous writer of religious music. His music ranges from challenging and spikey (motets), very deep (Messe de Nostre Dame), to highly poetic, and uniquely insightful on non-religious themes (his accompanied poems).

Edit: A perhaps surprising amount of very early composers were female - amongst the ones known by only one name, pre-1000 ad, I believe there are 3 or 4.

I like medieval music. Machaut is superb. And the Florentine composers, Ciconia and above all Landini, are favorites. Dunstaple as well. Where to draw the line between medieval and renaissance though? Is Dufay clearly renaissance?

This,also on zig-zag, has received superb reviews and are currently on my wish list.

Micrologus have done a series of fine recordings for Opus 111 worth seeking out.

And then you have the series of fine recordings by Gothic Voices on Hyperion, though they crosses over into early renaissance as often as not. Though I don't think that is a proble, or that the distinction is necessarily very clear-cut.

I like medieval music. Machaut is superb. And the Florentine composers, Ciconia and above all Landini, are favorites. Dunstaple as well. Where to draw the line between medieval and renaissance though? Is Dufay clearly renaissance?

Dufay's isorhythmic motets are often viewed as the last medieval works in the genre. Some of the most complex medieval music was produced sometime before Dufay at the Papal court at Avignon in the style of "Ars subtilior" For me the best medieval music recordings were made by a group called "Ensemble Gilles Binchois" (on the Cantus, Virgin Verita and Ambrosie labels) ranging from plainchants to Leonin and Perotin to Machaut's "Messe de Nostre Dame" to the chansons by Dufay and Binchois. The Austrian Unicorn Ensemble, which once recorded for Naxos, have made some affordable and fun recordings as well, in very good sound. Enthusiasts of the Cantigas and Andalusian repertories should seek out issues from the ongoing integral series by the Spanish Ensemble Eduardo Paniagua. I like them a lot more than I do the various Jordi Savall efforts.

« Last Edit: October 07, 2007, 02:28:40 AM by masolino »

Logged

HIP for all and all for HIP! Harpsichord for Bach, fortepiano for Beethoven and pianoforte for Brahms!

He is part of the Burgundy School which is considered very early renaissance.

Yes - but lots of his motets and chansons are stylistically much closer to Machaut than to the high renaissance. But whatever; if one likes Medieval Music one should look into early Dufay. And the transformation of this into renaissance is very interesting, as are all major stylistic shifts (like the transformation into Baroque in Tuscany/northern Italy, fin-de-siecle Vienna or between-the wars Paris.

Yes - but lots of his motets and chansons are stylistically much closer to Machaut than to the high renaissance. But whatever; if one likes Medieval Music one should look into early Dufay. And the transformation of this into renaissance is very interesting, as are all major stylistic shifts (like the transformation into Baroque in Tuscany/northern Italy, fin-de-siecle Vienna or between-the wars Paris.

I definitely consider Binchois's secular music similar to Machaut in spirit.

Logged

Peanut butter, flour and sugar do not make cookies. They make FIRE.

lukeottevanger

I am particularly interested in the aforementioned Italian-French Ars subtilior (AKA the Fourteenth Century Avant-Garde) - if 71 dB is looking for complexity, he need look no further. Rhythmically speaking, there is nothing to match the most extreme of these pieces until Stravinsky. A obscure byway, perhaps, from the medieval mainstream, but in these composers, as in Machaut, we really sense something of the modern concept of 'the composer'. The most intruiging figure, to my mind, is Matteo da Perugia (Perusio), whose Le Greygnour Bien I have often mentioned in threads of this kind - an utterly astonishing piece. As for recommended discs (these are the same ones I always recommend!):

There are also (at least) two discs by Perdo Memelsdorff's Mala Punica (Ars Subtilis Ytalica and D'Amor Ragionando, the latter pictured above) which focus on Italian music and take a much slower, more sensuous approach. Gorgeous music making too.

Though I have a few more discs in this repertoire - including the magnificent Perusio-only one pictured above - I haven't bought any recently (well, apart from the one I just one-clicked on!) so can't comment on some of the very seductive-looking discs I've just seen whilst image-searching!

« Last Edit: October 07, 2007, 01:59:36 AM by lukeottevanger »

Logged

lukeottevanger

...the transformation of this into renaissance is very interesting, as are all major stylistic shifts (like the transformation into Baroque in Tuscany/northern Italy, fin-de-siecle Vienna or between-the wars Paris.

That's a very important point, and one which I've made before when expressing my interest in the Ars subtilior. Another similar point of hyper-expressive complexity is found in the empfindsamer Stil whose finest exponents, perhaps, are CPE and WF Bach (the latter more extreme, the former more consummate)

That's a very important point, and one which I've made before when expressing my interest in the Ars subtilior. Another similar point of hyper-expressive complexity is found in the empfindsamer Stil whose finest exponents, perhaps, are CPE and WF Bach (the latter more extreme, the former more consummate)

Yes, all major styles seems to go over the top before a new, simpler and different style emerges.

Yes I do, and I own a considerable number of his recordings. But his contribution to medieval music is relative sparse. I would also tend to recommend his Llibre Vermell and his Cantigas de Santa Maria as well as his solo viol CD with medieval dances and traditional music, but I had to set a limit somewhere.

Premont, you heard ALL the music on your list? All honor to you. In the presence of such knowledgable people, I hardly dare raise my voice but at least, my personal preference is medieval music over baroque (excluding Bach). For one, the variety of styles is practically overwhelming. The least complicated, plainchant, is not simple at all, though.

In Grout's History of Music is a quote from Toynbee about the Church being the "chrysalis from which Western culture emerged", linking this up to the proliferation of the music in which the rites were carried. But more than that, prototypes of form and harmony are already in their incipient stages in plain chant with final, dominant, plagal, intoning notes, modes, limiting the smallest interval to the half step, areas of contrasting sections, eventually using the melodies themselves as bases for longer and more complicated compositions, etc.

As I said, I plead mainly ignorance and can only defer to those more learned than me.

I love medieval music too. But like others have said, it needs good performers to give it life--ones that can do more than play the sparse notes, but know the style and are willing to go beyond what's written.

Be sure not to miss The Play of Daniel. (Has that been recorded since the classic New York Pro Musica recording with Noah Greenberg?)

Logged

Imagination + discipline = creativity

Buying Music From Amazon?Please consider using these links. A small percentage of every sale using these links is passed on to GMG and helps keep this forum online.