Re: The Bachelor 11/20 Show Discussion - After The Final Rose **spoilers**

Originally Posted by Aquamarine;2684578;

You took the words right out of my mouth. I think that's why people (are at least myself) are disappointed. Not that he didn't propose, but he went on and on about her and his feelings for her and it sounded like he was in love. Like others have said on this board, he reminds me of an ex that was always looking for something better, something that I don't think is a reasonable expectation to have after the "honeymoon" phase is over. It's not all roses and butterflies. It almost seemed like he was uncomfortable with his own feelings. Although my opinion on him has completely changed, I can't help but think that HE really thought he was doing the right thing.

The problem is..and what the girls unfortunately may never understand..is that that there were no conflicts to make them think it wasn't all roses and butterflies. Brad scared himself away. I think he does regret it and doesn't know how to say he was wrong for letting DeAnna go.

Re: The Bachelor 11/20 Show Discussion - After The Final Rose **spoilers**

Originally Posted by pedslp;2684597;

Unfortunately, one of the by-products of growing up without a consistent solid example of marriage, and possibly only a string of dysfunctional marriages (total speculation on my part re: his mother's 4 marriages) as one's example, can be that one or more of the affected children will often look to movies, tv, books, couples they know and admire (but whose relationship behind closed doors they don't see - thus, not seeing that although they appear to be the perfect couple, no couple is perfect!) as the goal for the kind of marriage they want for themselves someday. However, those marriages and relationships don't exist outside of the ideal world. What that leads to is a person looking for a love, relationship, marriage that does not and will not exist in the real world.

I think Brad falls into the category of person I just described. But, also, from watching Brad this season as well as tonight, I really do believe that he wants marriage - but he wants the marriage he has conjured up from his various idealistic sources throughout his life. He is capable of caring, I believe, and I do think he developed caring feelings for each of the women - especially Deanna - but I think that he, like a guy I dated who reminds me SO much of Brad (so much, in fact, that he and Brad could be emotional twins!) can only go so far when it comes to emotional intimacy, and then he shuts down. Yes, I think it's something he can overcome, but he has to want to - really really want to - and maybe this Bachelor experience has made him want to do whatever is necessary to overcome his demons so he can actually sustain a solid long-term relationship with a good woman. For his sake, I hope so.

I honestly think that he knew going into this adventure that he has deep relationship/intimacy problems ... but maybe he thought that he could overcome them by having a fairly tale romance, engagement, etc that could possibly come from his stint on the Bachelor. I think he went into it with good intentions, but without the tools to see it through (and he knew deep-down he didn't have the tools, but he chose to ignore it and go full-speed ahead into the show anyway - and that, I think, was selfish).

I can relate to the feelings of being confused Deanna mentioned, and how she repeated that she still couldn't make sense of it. He made little sense at the FR ceremony and again on the ATFR ... and I think it's because he really doesn't know how to express his feelings - he's probably incapable of that to some degree, based on how he seems to have such a fear of emotional intimacy. Had he been able to express himself, he still may have rejected her, but maybe he'd have been able to help her understand better where he was coming from (?).

I loved how Jenni handled her time with Brad on the AFTR show. She seems to be such a good kind solid person. Deanna will be fine ... it will be hard to get over him for a while, because, as Chris said, I don't think she is going to get the clarity she wants/needs in order to move on from him. I'm sad for her - I have been in her shoes.

Best of luck to all 3 ... I hope Brad pursues counseling, and faces & overcomes his demons and eventually finds the right woman ... and that Jenni and Deanna achieve their personal dreams, and that they find men who love them for who they are and sweep them off their feet!

Re: The Bachelor 11/20 Show Discussion - After The Final Rose **spoilers**

thanks to the Bettina thread its been a great place to post this year. I think that Brad did right by himself, has learned alot about himself hopefully. Jenni and DeAnna are better off for him not stringing them along. Not sure where ABC will go from now. Had to trust another bachelor show maybe next will be a bachelorette.

Re: The Bachelor 11/20 Show Discussion - After The Final Rose **spoilers**

Originally Posted by memorylane;2684560;

I think I know what Brad's problem is...seriously...not to be mean...he's just dumb.

Yes, I've sort have come to the conclusion that he probably did have good intentions, but has the disabilities of not being able to think quickly, little introspection, and general slowness overall. I know it does sound mean, but I have just seen no evidence of real intellect from this guy. I'm not referring to the lack of formal education either, but to the absence of displays of wit and understanding. He is probably a good, basic guy at heart, but just comes out too bluntly with what he is really thinking, gets defensive easily, and maybe let his ego get the best of him when encouraging the girls to open up, maybe rationalizing it as giving them a chance to change his mind. He may have wanted to do what he thought was the right thing, but dug himself in a hole, and everything he said came off wrong. Ditto tonight... he just didn't realize that he was saying the wrong things.