What is a human being? What is life? Can science give us reliable answers to such questions? The electricity of life. The meaning of human consciousness. Are we alone? Are the traditional contests between science and religion still relevant? Does the word "spirit" still hold meaning today?

tholden wrote:Passed down for millenia. Highly unlikely that present day Berbers have any idea what the symbol represents.

Why? Because they are not white or American?

GC, Your statement implies that there is some kind of racial or national prejudice in tholden's post. That is uncalled for as it is obvious that he is referring to the proposed origin of the world wide squatter man motif in plasma discharges, as shown in the work of Anthony Peratt. Peratt's work is probably not known to the Berbers but also to the vast majority of Americans regardless of genetic heritage. As far as I know, these ideas are not taught as part of any college course or any educational curriculum (with the exception of Electric Universe and related literature.) It is perfectly reasonable to assume that the Berber culture does not associate this symbol with some cosmic apparition experienced in the past.

It is fine for you to disagree with this explanation for the squatter man, however, to imply that there is some sort of racial or nationalistic prejudice is totally out of bounds.

The Ganymede Hypothesis posits that there are two basic human groups (or atleast two) and that the difference has nothing to do with anything youć call race or color. The two groups are basically Adamite (the prople of Genesis and their descendants) and pre-Adamite (Cro Magnon man and his descendants). Other than for the question of RH- blood, the two are genetically all but the same, but the original cultures and technologies were totally different due to the gigantic expanse of time between the two saltations. Either group appears capable of producing any color or feature seen in humans.

There is no relationship between humans and hominids other than for similar design. No human is descended from hominids in any way and there is no credible evidence of humans ever interbreeding with hominids.

An unwarranted sense of cultural superiority works just as well as racism per se*. Ted's comment was needless as most people in any country are unaware of the proposed link.

The squatter man/plasma equation is evidence not cast-iron proof, the knowledge of which gives one some sort of intellectual kudos.

Nick, I had a look at the link but I don't take any notice of anything to do with DNA. I've been watching them coming out with rubbish for 30 years. Too many different peoples have lived in the area in the last couple of thousand years, including the Vandals from E of the Rhine.

*Something from which the UK is not immune.

If I have the least bit of knowledge I will follow the great Way alone and fear nothing but being sidetracked. The great Way is simple but people delight in complexity.Tao Te Ching, 53.

The intent of my statement was this: that there is no reasonable way to think that the girl in the image was thinking "Gee, wouldn't it be cool to get a squatting man tatoo like our ancestors used to draw on canyon walls to commemorate all the weird stuff they used to see in the sky"...

I don't see how a rational person could make that into an accusation of racism or zenophobia.

tholden wrote:Passed down for millenia. Highly unlikely that present day Berbers have any idea what the symbol represents.

Why? Because they are not white or American?

The typical white US American believes the consensus doctrine of millions of years of steady state conditions in the Earth and solar system. Therefore, such a person would not associate the symbol with a plasma event, and would themselves have no idea that it represents such.

Even if he had read Velikovsky and was aware of planetary instability, he still would not recognize the reference to a high energy electric discharge, unless it was explained to him, at which point it becomes evident.

Passed down for millenia. Highly unlikely that present day Berbers have any idea what the symbol represents.

I think it would be interesting to know how the Berbers understand what seems to be the squatter man symbol. Maybe they think it's just a 'doodle' - but I imagine the connotations of the symbol might be quite interesting - and telling. For example do they think it offers power or protection? Even if it's just something 'grandmom' thought was important so I keep using it - that says something.

There's a book called 'When they Severed Earth from the Sky" by Elizabeth Wayland Barber and Paul T. Barber which relates that oral history has been shown to have been passed down in Native American stories for up to 10 thousand years - confirmed by geologic records.

The Native legends are presented in ways that are, well, story-like eg a god fought with another god etc - so scientifically fact oriented researchers initially thought 'oh how quaint' and dismissed the legends as simply amusements of tribes - but now it's known many stories related to actual events.

So I wonder what stories the Berbers (or Basques) might have that could relate to the squatter man or that symbol. Maybe that research center in Nevada (mentioned in the video) knows . . . but doesn't know they know!

Tansi wrote:So I wonder what stories the Berbers (or Basques) might have that could relate to the squatter man or that symbol. Maybe that research center in Nevada (mentioned in the video) knows . . . but doesn't know they know!

Thanks for posting - I find the squatter man fascinating -

Don't know anything about squatting men and Basques... But there is an interesting kind of thing called "Basajaun" in Basque folklore.

The final Neanderthal stand in Europe occurred in Southern Spain around 25000 years ago or so we read, which could easily make the Basque people the last human group to ever get a good look at a Neanderthal.

There is a growing body of solid evidence http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/02/humans-mated-neandertals-much-earlier-and-more-frequently-thought, regarding the interbreeding of Humans and Neanderthals. Cro-Magnons have always been considered Homo sapiens and these days Neanderthals are classified as Homo sapiens neanderthalensis as a convenience to distinguish them from so-called "moderns" Homo sapiens sapiens. Biologic taxonomy is by definition a system of convention; but the only reason to dispute human interrelations is for the support of a scripturally twisted OEC dogma regarding the nature of Adam in the context of a local-Iraqian-deluge interpretation of the flood story. And let's not forget that artistic reconstructions are what they are, the poetic visions of the artists. People are of course all welcome to their beliefs, but let's not pretend that the scientific case is conclusive in the favor of tholden's claim!

The real question here about squatter man should be whether he represents the plasma discharge phenomenon claimed by the EU mythologists. Let's not pretend that issue is conclusive either. If a premise is stated as such, rather than as a given set of agreed upon facts, then intelligent learners can decide for themselves how the evidence comes together, rather than being led by the nose by proponents of peculiar pet hypotheses.

Truth extends beyond the border of self-limiting science. Free discourse among opposing viewpoints draws the open-minded away from the darkness of inevitable bias and nearer to the light of universal reality.

Humans are not descended from hominids and have never interbred with Neanderthals or any other hominid.

For any hominid to have evolved into humans, that hominid would have to have: Lost his fur while ice ages were going on. Lost almost all of his night vision while living in the perpetual twilight of the “Purple Dawn” age and while surrounded by predators which could see very nicely in the dark. Lost almost all of his sense of smell while trying to survive as a land prey animal.

That third item would have been more or less instantly fatal for a land prey animal. Aquatic mammals, of course, do not really reqire a keen sense of smell...

The one other shot somebody might take at a hominid ==> human evolution claim would be to claim, as does Vendramini, that Cro Magnon man arose from gracile (Skhul/Qafzeh) hominids. Vendramini claims that predation BY Neanderthals drove those gracile hominids into a fast process of evolution into Cro Magnon man. Nonetheless, from Shreve's "Neandeerthal Peace", we note:

"Here in the Levant, however, the arrival of anatomically modern humans was marked by no fancy new tools, not to mention no painted caves, beaded necklaces, or other evidence of exploding Cro-Magnon couture. In this part of the world, how modern a hominid looked in its body said nothing about how modernly it behaved.

You can't expect anybody to believe that Cro Magnon man with his grand art and his advanced tools and weapons arose in very little time from something like that, PARTICULARLY when there is a vastly better explanation to hand as per the Ganymede Hypothesis.

There is also a claim that, because some humans have a certain small number of genes in common with Neanderthals, that humans and Neanderthals must have interbred. That amounts to thinking that a Neanderthal male could/would rape a woman and, rather than cooking and eating her afterwards as usual, somehow or other keep her alive long enough to bear a cross-species child, raise that child to reproductive age, and have him/her breed back into human populations without anybody catching on, i.e. the claim is ridiculous.

In real life: Neanderthal females would kill that woman the first time her new owner left her alone for ten minutes. The woman wouldn't fare any better than the subjects of the commie attempts to breed humans and apes into super workers in the 1930s. Humans would notice the child was different (really different...) And humans would kill that child and everybody else like him as part of the same program which killed out the Neanderthal. They would not need DNA tests to determine who to kill for that sort of reason, it would be exceedingly obvious.