I know threads like this work, but will this individual thread make any more difference than posting in the other one? If it does, should everyone pushing for warrior nerfs create their own thread? I feel we've heard enough people complain that warriors are too strong, Blizzard sure as hell has. I would just rather see some good ideas on what needs to be changed to fix the problem.

i can agree with that, although normally when i don't like something i make as much noise in as many different places as i can. ^^

in terms of ideas on how to balance warrs, sure:

- shared cd between reflects and [select] gap closers
- some minor adjustment of second wind (not a heavy nerf ideally)
- some deep wounds dmg moved to auto-strikes.
- warr fear breaking on dmg (i would love if this wasnt a physical fear as well..but i think they need that).

i don't mean do all of those things at once.. but imo those are some things that should be looked at.

i don't play wow anymore, but when i did the warrior class had 1 high rated arena player.

i don't see a problem with warriors being good for once.

Because the game shouldn't be balanced around "Oh hey, X class had a rough seaon, let's make it easier for them the next season." Another problem is that warriors have nearly always been either shit or waaay too OP because blizzard is in general clueless about balancing warriors properly.

AWarriors are seriously ruining PvP atm. They basically have a god spec that does insane sustained damage, has great-out-of-CD burst, great with-CD-burst, great mobility, great utility, good survivability (die by the sword is a fucking joke, so is shield wall now it doesn't require a shield anymore).

There's barely any reason not to take a warrior above another class. Basically the only thing warriors don't have is insane CC. They're close, but not there yet.

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Originally Posted by Lulbalance

i can agree with that, although normally when i don't like something i make as much noise in as many different places as i can. ^^

in terms of ideas on how to balance warrs, sure:

- shared cd between reflects and [select] gap closers
- some minor adjustment of second wind (not a heavy nerf ideally)
- some deep wounds dmg moved to auto-strikes.
- warr fear breaking on dmg (i would love if this wasnt a physical fear as well..but i think they need that).

i don't mean do all of those things at once.. but imo those are some things that should be looked at.

Reflects and gap closers sharing CD doesn't really make any sense though. What they should do IMO is to have double charge's second charge not stun you anymore, revert the intervene change OR have mass reflect and spell reflection put each eachother on CD for 25 seconds (use spell reflect = 25 sec on mass reflect, use mass reflect = use CD of spell reflection) OR make it so spell reflect requires a freaking shield again.

Deep wounds should simply be nerfed by 50%.
By the time a dot is doing 100% more damage than the following up ability on recount it's starting to get seriously stupid.

Warr fear should instantly break on -direct warrior hits-. It would work exactly like how dragon's breath works. It ignores your DoTs but breaks when you hit him with an auto-attack or ability.

Interrupting Shout should either be on the same talent row as mass reflect or have its CD increased or something.

Though, I think they should simply replace let's say Staggering Shout with mass reflection and removing the snare/root removal of intervene again. This would have the warrior choose between a root breaker, or a root.

I'm guessing you never heard the phrase; Correlation does not imply causation. While it is evidence in support of warriors being over the top it is not the definitive factor.

Well, while "Correlation does not imply causation" is something to take into account, it doesn't stand on it's own merits. Correlation can very well imply causation and CAN be the definitive factor, but doesn't or isn't necessarily so in most cases. It's merely a warning that you shouldn't walk into a questionable cause logical fallacy, which is very easy to do.

But I digress... I'm sure you know this.

The in-game proof of warriors being too strong is something everyone has encountered, that actually does competitive PvP. The statistics also confirms it.
They are overtuned and it's beyond me how Blizzard can't see this. They needs an immediate fix, along with mages (ice lance damage, wtf?) and warlocks (spread pressure bonanza, plus insane CC) amongst others.

Why not do small adjustments until it seems to even out? I think most of us could live with a few more weeks of overpowered opponents, if we just knew that they were adjusting them, little by little.

Well, while "Correlation does not imply causation" is something to take into account, it doesn't stand on it's own merits. Correlation can very well imply causation and CAN be the definitive factor, but doesn't or isn't necessarily so in most cases. It's merely a warning that you shouldn't walk into a questionable cause logical fallacy, which is very easy to do.

But I digress... I'm sure you know this.

The in-game proof of warriors being too strong is something everyone has encountered, that actually does competitive PvP. The statistics also confirms it.
They are overtuned and it's beyond me how Blizzard can't see this. They needs an immediate fix, along with mages (ice lance damage, wtf?) and warlocks (spread pressure bonanza, plus insane CC) amongst others.

Why not do small adjustments until it seems to even out? I think most of us could live with a few more weeks of overpowered opponents, if we just knew that they were adjusting them, little by little.

- shared cd between reflects and [select] gap closers
- some minor adjustment of second wind (not a heavy nerf ideally)
- some deep wounds dmg moved to auto-strikes.
- warr fear breaking on dmg (i would love if this wasnt a physical fear as well..but i think they need that).

i don't mean do all of those things at once.. but imo those are some things that should be looked at.

I agree with all of these points except the deep wounds change. Not that I think it's a bad idea, but simply because I don't think arms damage (especially spread damage) is going anywhere. Because of this, I think warrior mobility really needs to be addressed. Reflects and even interrupts need a solid tweaking as well.

Originally Posted by Emfg

Reflects and gap closers sharing CD doesn't really make any sense though. What they should do IMO is to have double charge's second charge not stun you anymore, revert the intervene change OR have mass reflect and spell reflection put each eachother on CD for 25 seconds (use spell reflect = 25 sec on mass reflect, use mass reflect = use CD of spell reflection) OR make it so spell reflect requires a freaking shield again.

I don't think he meant reflects and gap closers sharing a CD with eachother, but between themselves (reflects sharing cds, gap closers sharing cds). Maybs lul can provide a little more insight there. Either way, they both need to be addressed. I also don't see shield requirements coming back.

Warr fear should instantly break on -direct warrior hits-. It would work exactly like how dragon's breath works. It ignores your DoTs but breaks when you hit him with an auto-attack or ability.

I wish every CC worked like this. They could still have a damage threshold so dot don't have any extreme advantages. I feel like it opens up swap capabilites a little more.

Interrupting Shout should either be on the same talent row as mass reflect or have its CD increased or something.

Though, I think they should simply replace let's say Staggering Shout with mass reflection and removing the snare/root removal of intervene again. This would have the warrior choose between a root breaker, or a root.

This may be the best suggestion I've heard yet. The only problem I see there is that each tier tends to have a sort of theme to it. Second tier for warriors is directed at hampering an enemies abilities, while the fifth tier is geared towards protecting allies. Call me negative, but I feel like blizzard will take the consistency over balance.