re: Interesting Rumor Concerning General Carter Ham and Stand Down Order

quote: If Obama ordered the military to “secure our personnel,” as he claims he did in Denver on Oct.26th ....where is the order?

Don't even have to go there: if Obama gave the order then why did Panetta say this earlier in defense of NOT SENDING FORCES:

quote:In a statement bordering on the Kafkaesque, Leon Panetta told a news conference Thursday that four Americans, including our Libyan ambassador Chris Stevens, were left to die without a rescue attempt by nearby U.S. military forces because there's "a basic principle here, and the basic principle is that you don't deploy forces into harm's way without knowing what's going on, without having some real-time information about what's taking place."

re: Interesting Rumor Concerning General Carter Ham and Stand Down Order(Posted by Ambassador on 10/29/12 at 9:21 pm to theunknownknight)

It looks like the Pentegon and the Chairman of the Joint Chief of Staff has responded to the story.

quote:UPDATE: On Sunday October 28 I received the following communique from Pentagon Press Secretary George Little:

"The insinuations in your story are flat wrong. General Ham is an outstanding leader of AFRICOM. Future leadership changes at this important command have absolutely nothing to do with the attack on American personnel in Benghazi. The leadership changes have been long planned."

Of course I never suggested that General Ham was anything other than an outstanding leader of AFRICOM and in fact said as much. But why is an outstanding leader of this important command leaving after less than two years when all other combatant commanders have longer tenures? General Ham's predecessor stayed in the job much longer and was generally less well regarded. Further discussion of these issues may help begin to restore the administration's credibility on the Benghazi issue.

UPDATE 2: On Monday October 29 General Martin Dempsey, Chairman of the Joint Chief of Staff, released the following statement:

"The speculation that General Carter Ham is departing Africa Command (AFRICOM) due to events in Benghazi, Libya on 11 September 2012 is absolutely false. General Ham's departure is part of routine succession planning that has been on going since July. He continues to serve in AFRICOM with my complete confidence."

UPDATE 2: On Monday October 29 General Martin Dempsey, Chairman of the Joint Chief of Staff, released the following statement:

"The speculation that General Carter Ham is departing Africa Command (AFRICOM) due to events in Benghazi, Libya on 11 September 2012 is absolutely false. General Ham's departure is part of routine succession planning that has been on going since July. He continues to serve in AFRICOM with my complete confidence."

re: Interesting Rumor Concerning General Carter Ham and Stand Down Order(Posted by its1999 on 10/30/12 at 2:42 am to Ambassador)

Wow this thread is qouted by the Wash Times. Apparently Ambassador is a credible source to the media now. "However on October 26, "Ambassador" posted the following RUMINT on TigerDroppings (h/t Jim Hoft): I heard a story today from someone inside the military that I trust entirely. The story was in reference to General Ham that Panetta referenced in the quote below"

Read more: TRR: Is a General losing his job over Benghazi? - Washington Times LINKFollow us: @washtimes on Twitter LINK /

re: Interesting Rumor Concerning General Carter Ham and Stand Down Order(Posted by austingator on 10/30/12 at 5:44 am to KosmoCramer)

quote:Interesting Rumor Concerning General Carter Ham and Stand Down Order I'm getting sick just finding out everything that was going on behind the scenes of this and how it's not being talked about. I literally want to vomit thinking that we left American heroes to die when we had many avenues of support and assets that could have been utilized.

I understand a purely military screw up, but to let your ambassador DIE to avoid political fallout is truly disgusting.

re: Interesting Rumor Concerning General Carter Ham and Stand Down Order(Posted by Ambassador on 10/30/12 at 6:34 am to Royal Tiger Fan)

quote:Gen Ham change of command will be april 2013...that's a little more than 2 years in command and on par with what combatant commanders will serve. The last 3 PACOM served about 2 years...

You are correct but the question still remains is he still running AfriCon daily or is he in the US. The linked blog and especially the comments below the blog are interesting.

Here is a quote of just one comment.

quote:Update: Here's General Ham on Oct 24 speaking to ROTC cadets in Washington: http://www.africom.mil/getArti... - it would be interesting to find out when General Ham arrived in Washington and when he is going back to his command. Needless to say, as long as he is absent from his command, it's his deputy who is in actual day-to-day control. They do not have to publicly relieve him, all they really have to do is put him on a plane and get him out of theater for a few hours the night of Sep 11 so his deputy is in actual control of AFRICOM assets. He strikes me as a smart cookie - if there is any truth to this story, he's relying on folks like us to ask questions and out the truth.

re: Interesting Rumor Concerning General Carter Ham and Stand Down Order(Posted by Royal Tiger Fan on 10/30/12 at 9:01 am to Ambassador)

This is pure coincidence. He'll the top general here in seoul (4 star) was in the states for three weeks. That's normal.

This is just a rumor that caught fire because its a) juicy and b) close to election and folks who are opponents of the administration will look for anything to gain swing voters.

Any joint position takes at least 6 months processing time before announcement. So GEN Rodriguez was long being thought of to replace GEN ham before Libya. The military second in command ( again there are two deputies) is retiring a couple of months after the change of command.

I'm a uniform guy with not only personal knowledge but also vested interest in these matters.

re: Interesting Rumor Concerning General Carter Ham and Stand Down Order(Posted by Navytiger74 on 10/30/12 at 9:05 am to Ambassador)

quote:You are correct but the question still remains is he still running AfriCon daily or is he in the US. The linked blog and especially the comments below the blog are interesting.

COCOM CDR's HQ'd overseas spend fully a quarter of their time their time in the US (mainly in the greater DC area).

All of this looks fishy to you because, as I intimated to a poster yesterday, you don't even know what the frick you're looking at. You have no basis for comparison. How can something look unusual if you don't know what's usual?

re: Interesting Rumor Concerning General Carter Ham and Stand Down Order(Posted by Ambassador on 10/30/12 at 9:12 pm to Navytiger74)

quote:All of this looks fishy to you because, as I intimated to a poster yesterday, you don't even know what the frick you're looking at. You have no basis for comparison. How can something look unusual if you don't know what's usual?

Navytiger74, you are right, I do not know what I am looking at. I do not have a basis for comparison. That is why I listed this as a rumor from the beginning. I am really shocked that this post has been picked up like it did. I thought we would discuss it for part of a day in here and it would be forgotten.

I do respect your opinion on this and know you have better insight than me to what is going on. But I will say that through my business I have some good contacts in the military. I feed these guys on a regular basis and they like to talk. Sure, most of it needs to be taken with a grain of salt but it does make good subject matter. So I took their info and posted it for our discussion.

What is interesting to me is the amount of military people that have a different view of his retirement than you. Some of their thoughts are in the link in one of my more recent posts. I do not know what this guys qualifications are but he too has a different take than you.

And with all do respect, you are as anonymous to me as they are. That does not mean I think you are wrong on this. I just do not know. I find this story interesting and will watch to see how it plays out.

re: Interesting Rumor Concerning General Carter Ham and Stand Down Order(Posted by Wolfhound45 on 10/31/12 at 1:58 am to Ambassador)

Just to bring this (hopefully) to an interesting close;

From Daniel Greenfield, an Op-Ed blogger for the Jewish Press;

quote:I have received dozens of emails in the last few days claiming that General Ham was fired for trying to go ahead with a rescue operation. The story appeared in the Washington Times. The source for the Times’ story was an anonymous comment on Tiger Droppings, a forum for LSU football fans, from someone in Louisiana working in “Self Employed/Restaurants/Catering” who claimed that the story came “from someone inside the military”.

Now for all I know this story is true, but an anonymous comment on a football fan forum is not enough to run with a major story. It’s certainly not enough to start treating it as an established fact.

That comment has gone beyond the Washington Times and is being sourced in various outlets all of whom are reporting a story based on an anonymous comment on an internet forum.

re: Interesting Rumor Concerning General Carter Ham and Stand Down Order(Posted by Navytiger74 on 10/31/12 at 3:15 am to Ambassador)

quote:Navytiger74, you are right, I do not know what I am looking at. I do not have a basis for comparison. That is why I listed this as a rumor from the beginning. I am really shocked that this post has been picked up like it did. I thought we would discuss it for part of a day in here and it would be forgotten.

I do respect your opinion on this and know you have better insight than me to what is going on. But I will say that through my business I have some good contacts in the military. I feed these guys on a regular basis and they like to talk. Sure, most of it needs to be taken with a grain of salt but it does make good subject matter. So I took their info and posted it for our discussion.

What is interesting to me is the amount of military people that have a different view of his retirement than you. Some of their thoughts are in the link in one of my more recent posts. I do not know what this guys qualifications are but he too has a different take than you.

LINK

And with all do respect, you are as anonymous to me as they are. That does not mean I think you are wrong on this. I just do not know. I find this story interesting and will watch to see how it plays out.

I don't have anything against you, Amb. I'm sure you're posting in good faith. It just blows my mind how easy it is to spin things up with bad or incomplete information in the internet age. There's a reason reportersused to have to vet sources and information before they could report it. Getting caught posting bad information ended Dan Rather's otherwise distinguished career.

Anonymous bloggers have no such qualms about posting rumors because they don't have reputations to risk.

Don't take my slam as a personal insult against you. It's just the nature of the beast. Many news reporters are fond of pushing unsubstantiated or false information with the ass-covering caveat of "this is just a prilimenary report" or "an unconfirmed report". I tend to believe that reporters shouldn't be reporting things unless they're reasonably certain of the validity of the information. It is impossible to completely erase a falsehood once it's out there.

re: Interesting Rumor Concerning General Carter Ham and Stand Down Order(Posted by Wtxtiger on 10/31/12 at 6:45 am to Navytiger74)

I wonder if chicken is happy with the exposure , tigerdroppings being noted by major news outlets being free advertisement. Or Is chicken worried about tigerdroppings being put under a spotlight and being noticed by some federal agencies?

You can bet that someone in the fedgov is investigating this story and trying to figure out if someone leaked secret info and possibly broke federal laws. Just wondering.