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Im a little confused. What would be a more acceptable outcome OP? Other than getting your money back?

That they would allow you to keep playing? Of course they're going to ban you from beta. But since you didn't like the game anyways, why even post about it? Why do you care?

Is this to let the community know that if you try and get a refund from Darkfall you won't be able to play it anymore? I mean if that's the case then thanks for letting everyone know I guess. Although its about the most common sense thing I could possibly think off.

Well, it's the same thing as going to wal-mart and asking to return your Video Game. They deny your refund but they take away the game. You lose, they win.

Not really, because if you return a game to wal-mart, they are taking the game in exchange for money. You can't do this for a program. He would be getting money back, but still have the ability to play the game.

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Im a little confused. What would be a more acceptable outcome OP? Other than getting your money back?

That they would allow you to keep playing? Of course they're going to ban you from beta. But since you didn't like the game anyways, why even post about it? Why do you care?

Is this to let the community know that if you try and get a refund from Darkfall you won't be able to play it anymore? I mean if that's the case then thanks for letting everyone know I guess. Although its about the most common sense thing I could possibly think off.

Well, it's the same thing as going to wal-mart and asking to return your Video Game. They deny your refund but they take away the game. You lose, they win.

No wal-mart just doesn't take your game and can't after you buy it.

If you people would read the OP is saying he didn't get a refund when asked for it but got banned instead without the product he paid for nor the refund.

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Originally posted by joshbaby03

Just another update for everyone...still no funds have been returned..still perma-banned. I will say one thing about this...you know, I the only reason a company would adhere to this "no refunds" policy for a pre-order is because they know their product is so bad that everyone would cancel as soon as they saw it in beta. This is to protect them from all the money they have stolen from loyal customers. It disgusts me to see a company treat it's customers this way, and anyone who defends that kind of behaviour are the same type who would sell piss to someone on the street dressed as little girls and call it lemonade...you make the world an uglier place.

Jed

I hope you have better luck than I:

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After careful consideration, we're unable to decide this claim in your favor at this time.

The item is ineligible for PayPal Buyer Protection because it is intangible.

What's interesting is that I initiated the PayPal dispute because AV was not responding to my inquiries. I simply used PayPal as a way to communicate with them that they couldn't just ignore. AV were the ones who escalated it to an actual claim, not me:

12/29/2012 00:59 PST - Seller: Dear Paypal Resolution Center,Darkfall is a Massive Multiplayer Online game (currently in beta), which is distributed through our online store. By per-ordering Darkfall Unholy Wars, our customer gets the game client together with 30 days of subscription for the price of Euro/USD 29.95 instead of EUR/USD 39.95, they also can reserve their character name and finally they are allowed to participate in Beta Testing. Their subscription will be activated only after the launch of DF Unholy Wars, (January 2013) and therefore there is no charge while our customers are beta testing DF Unholy Wars. In our website http://www.darkfallonline.com/ we are clearly informing our community that the game is currently in beta, while the terms of the preorder ,which can be found at https://ams.darkfallonline.com/AMS/Terms.html, and which our customers have to accept before they place their pre- order, are describing in detail all the terms and conditions of the service. Since the game is not officially launched, we cannot accept any breach of our no refund policy. Our policy is clearly stated at http://www.darkfallonline.com/legal in the Terms of Sales, as well as on the EULA and Terms of Service, in which the customer has to accept in order to pre-order Darkfall: Unholy Wars. We are obliged to follow our No Refund policy and therefore we will not be able to issue any refund.We are attaching the customers transaction history file, directly from Vindicia's Platform, as a proof of shipment and immediate activation of the service: .Darkfall Support

12/28/2012 16:52 PST - Buyer: I would like to cancel my pre-order for 'Darkfall: Unholy Wars' and receive a full refund.

I fully acknowledge that I didn't read all the fine print when I pre-ordered as you would have to read all of it to find the "no refunds" language buried in there. Had they simply replied to my inquiry showing me the "no refund" policy I would have stopped the dispute process right there. Instead they replied and escalated the dispute to a Claim at the same time, leaving no way to settle it amicably.

Honestly I knew I was taking a risk when I opened started the dispute process, but IMO the game is so terrible I really felt like I had nothing to lose.

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Originally posted by jmhart

Originally posted by joshbaby03

Just another update for everyone...still no funds have been returned..still perma-banned. I will say one thing about this...you know, I the only reason a company would adhere to this "no refunds" policy for a pre-order is because they know their product is so bad that everyone would cancel as soon as they saw it in beta. This is to protect them from all the money they have stolen from loyal customers. It disgusts me to see a company treat it's customers this way, and anyone who defends that kind of behaviour are the same type who would sell piss to someone on the street dressed as little girls and call it lemonade...you make the world an uglier place.

Jed

I hope you have better luck than I:

Status

After careful consideration, we're unable to decide this claim in your favor at this time.

The item is ineligible for PayPal Buyer Protection because it is intangible.

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Originally posted by Hancakes

Originally posted by jmhart

Originally posted by joshbaby03

Just another update for everyone...still no funds have been returned..still perma-banned. I will say one thing about this...you know, I the only reason a company would adhere to this "no refunds" policy for a pre-order is because they know their product is so bad that everyone would cancel as soon as they saw it in beta. This is to protect them from all the money they have stolen from loyal customers. It disgusts me to see a company treat it's customers this way, and anyone who defends that kind of behaviour are the same type who would sell piss to someone on the street dressed as little girls and call it lemonade...you make the world an uglier place.

Jed

I hope you have better luck than I:

Status

After careful consideration, we're unable to decide this claim in your favor at this time.

The item is ineligible for PayPal Buyer Protection because it is intangible.

Well done Paypal

Thanks for your support, good day !

I like how you editted out the entire section about Aventurine's weird bullshit move regarding the paypal dispute.

It is odd that Aventurine would prefer not to even speak to their customers but let a different company that handles payments do it for them. Seems they really do just want money and nothing to do with customer satisfaction at all.

Edit: also Hancakes, do you work for Aventurine? Otherwise how would paypal be supporting you? Do you have some stake in the company?

I hope it isn't just the warped mindset of fanboyism leading to a feeling of gain or loss when a person approves of the action of two companies the person neither works for or has a stake in.

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Originally posted by kadepsyson

Originally posted by Hancakes

Originally posted by jmhart

Originally posted by joshbaby03

Just another update for everyone...still no funds have been returned..still perma-banned. I will say one thing about this...you know, I the only reason a company would adhere to this "no refunds" policy for a pre-order is because they know their product is so bad that everyone would cancel as soon as they saw it in beta. This is to protect them from all the money they have stolen from loyal customers. It disgusts me to see a company treat it's customers this way, and anyone who defends that kind of behaviour are the same type who would sell piss to someone on the street dressed as little girls and call it lemonade...you make the world an uglier place.

Jed

I hope you have better luck than I:

Status

After careful consideration, we're unable to decide this claim in your favor at this time.

The item is ineligible for PayPal Buyer Protection because it is intangible.

Well done Paypal

Thanks for your support, good day !

I like how you editted out the entire section about Aventurine's weird bullshit move regarding the paypal dispute.

Whats weird about? Its pretty straight forward, what part do you fail to understand? Most people seem to get it, including Paypal.

Just another update for everyone...still no funds have been returned..still perma-banned. I will say one thing about this...you know, I the only reason a company would adhere to this "no refunds" policy for a pre-order is because they know their product is so bad that everyone would cancel as soon as they saw it in beta. This is to protect them from all the money they have stolen from loyal customers. It disgusts me to see a company treat it's customers this way, and anyone who defends that kind of behaviour are the same type who would sell piss to someone on the street dressed as little girls and call it lemonade...you make the world an uglier place.

Jed

I hope you have better luck than I:

Status

After careful consideration, we're unable to decide this claim in your favor at this time.

The item is ineligible for PayPal Buyer Protection because it is intangible.

Well done Paypal

Thanks for your support, good day !

I like how you editted out the entire section about Aventurine's weird bullshit move regarding the paypal dispute.

Whats weird about? Its pretty straight forward, what part do you fail to understand? Most people seem to get it, including Paypal.

The weird part of how Aventurine decided to instead of dealing with the customer and pointing out their policy, they instead told paypal to deal with it.

I'm not saying paypals decision is weird, but Aventurine's handling of the situation.

Also, do you have any comment about the irrational response to news that doesn't affect you? aka fanboyism?

For me, with games, I have fun, play what I enjoy etc. I don't care about "winning" some imaginary war between games or consoles or what have you. That is a bit too fantasy even for me.

It isn't really surprising news that Aventurine doesn't even want to talk to customers that try and contact them, but it is another addition to the growing amount of instances of their customer relations failures.

And for an emoticon at the end of my message to make it more appealing to you:

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Yea they re-activated my account while i was deployed. The tech suppot was ignorant , also banned me after about 10 emails, and i never got any refund. Account activated 2 months after i got over seas, where i had no computer acess and no one else had my log in info. Account was activated and never played btw, they are a money grubbin bunch.

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Originally posted by Webzero Yea they re-activated my account while i was deployed. The tech suppot was ignorant , also banned me after about 10 emails, and i never got any refund. Account activated 2 months after i got over seas, where i had no computer acess and no one else had my log in info. Account was activated and never played btw, they are a money grubbin bunch.

If this is true, that is really shitty. Like far beyond just denying pre order refunds, but hugely unethical.

Then again, they are based in Greece, they probably don't care about other countries soldiers deployed in combat zones, and care about money instead.

Just another update for everyone...still no funds have been returned..still perma-banned. I will say one thing about this...you know, I the only reason a company would adhere to this "no refunds" policy for a pre-order is because they know their product is so bad that everyone would cancel as soon as they saw it in beta. This is to protect them from all the money they have stolen from loyal customers. It disgusts me to see a company treat it's customers this way, and anyone who defends that kind of behaviour are the same type who would sell piss to someone on the street dressed as little girls and call it lemonade...you make the world an uglier place.

Jed

I hope you have better luck than I:

Status

After careful consideration, we're unable to decide this claim in your favor at this time.

The item is ineligible for PayPal Buyer Protection because it is intangible.

Well done Paypal

Thanks for your support, good day !

I like how you editted out the entire section about Aventurine's weird bullshit move regarding the paypal dispute.

Whats weird about? Its pretty straight forward, what part do you fail to understand? Most people seem to get it, including Paypal.

The weird part of how Aventurine decided to instead of dealing with the customer and pointing out their policy, they instead told paypal to deal with it.

I

WOW, do you need an explanation of how Paypal works as well? Anyway, there was nothing for AV to "work out" as their policy was clearly listed at point of sale. Its a pretty simple concept...NO REFUNDS

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Originally posted by Webzero Yea they re-activated my account while i was deployed. The tech suppot was ignorant , also banned me after about 10 emails, and i never got any refund. Account activated 2 months after i got over seas, where i had no computer acess and no one else had my log in info. Account was activated and never played btw, they are a money grubbin bunch.

Obviously someone did, I highly doubt AV singled you out to scam your monthly fee. If it was a fraudulent charge all you had to do was contact your Credit Card company/paypal.

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Originally posted by Hancakes

Originally posted by Webzero Yea they re-activated my account while i was deployed. The tech suppot was ignorant , also banned me after about 10 emails, and i never got any refund. Account activated 2 months after i got over seas, where i had no computer acess and no one else had my log in info. Account was activated and never played btw, they are a money grubbin bunch.

Obviously someone did, I highly doubt AV singled you out to scam your monthly fee. If it was a fraudulent charge all you had to do was contact your Credit Card company/paypal.

And have paypal side with Aventurine and the guy get screwed out of his money? HEH

Also, I wasn't talking about paypal in the right or wrong. I was saying that Aventurine is getting worse and worse with customer service. That's what I drew issue with. Besides, if Aventurine had dealt with the customer's issue in this particular case, the guy wouldn't have had to use paypal dispute at all. He mentioned that earlier. Instead Aventurine chose not to respond to him at all. They only responded to the threat of losing their iron grip on his money.

Is it so bad to want Aventurine to be nice to customers?

Edit: I'm not sure how Aventurine keeps getting worse with customer service. But part of the charm of this Darkfall: Unholy Wars subforum is it is always full of surprises :P

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Originally posted by Hancakes

Originally posted by Webzero Yea they re-activated my account while i was deployed. The tech suppot was ignorant , also banned me after about 10 emails, and i never got any refund. Account activated 2 months after i got over seas, where i had no computer acess and no one else had my log in info. Account was activated and never played btw, they are a money grubbin bunch.

Obviously someone did, I highly doubt AV singled you out to scam your monthly fee. If it was a fraudulent charge all you had to do was contact your Credit Card company/paypal.

Ah, a quick google search revealed that you are correct. Aventurine didn't single him out, there were widespread charges to accounts after cancellation of subscription.

It just sucks that he probably won't get his money back if he contacts Aventurine, and now not even from paypal.

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Originally posted by kadepsyson

Originally posted by Hancakes

Originally posted by Webzero Yea they re-activated my account while i was deployed. The tech suppot was ignorant , also banned me after about 10 emails, and i never got any refund. Account activated 2 months after i got over seas, where i had no computer acess and no one else had my log in info. Account was activated and never played btw, they are a money grubbin bunch.

Obviously someone did, I highly doubt AV singled you out to scam your monthly fee. If it was a fraudulent charge all you had to do was contact your Credit Card company/paypal.

Ah, a quick google search revealed that you are correct. Aventurine didn't single him out, there were widespread charges to accounts after cancellation of subscription.

It just sucks that he probably won't get his money back if he contacts Aventurine, and now not even from paypal.

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Originally posted by Hancakes

Originally posted by kadepsyson

Originally posted by Hancakes

Originally posted by Webzero Yea they re-activated my account while i was deployed. The tech suppot was ignorant , also banned me after about 10 emails, and i never got any refund. Account activated 2 months after i got over seas, where i had no computer acess and no one else had my log in info. Account was activated and never played btw, they are a money grubbin bunch.

Obviously someone did, I highly doubt AV singled you out to scam your monthly fee. If it was a fraudulent charge all you had to do was contact your Credit Card company/paypal.

Ah, a quick google search revealed that you are correct. Aventurine didn't single him out, there were widespread charges to accounts after cancellation of subscription.

It just sucks that he probably won't get his money back if he contacts Aventurine, and now not even from paypal.

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They could at least un ban him if they're not going to give a refund, sound like a bunch of babies over at AV to me. Anyways I think this about destroys the last bit of interest I had in this piece of crap game, too risky sending money to jokers like this. I hate that feeling of being burned, even if I don't really miss the cash.