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I need some help with Values

Hey everyone. So I need help with a Pokemon painting I'm working on. It's been a long while since I painted anything and sort of forgotten important stuff. I'm starting off with painting values in, and then adding color later. Question is: When painting values into a bright sunny day, as portrayed in the pic I'm sharing, how do you get the characters to stand out? If I remember correctly, it's important to have variations of light and dark values, right? So how would you do that if the sky is bright, and the character - that the sun is shinning on - is also bright? Looking at my pic, there isn't really a value range to separate the characters and the sky. So...What do I do? Is it okay to leave both the characters and the sky bright? But then the dark spots of the painting (where the girl is casting a shadow), would steal the main focus of the painting - the girl holding her Pokemon. Speaking of the dark spots, the whole painting is mostly light in value. That's a problem I think.================================================== ================================================== ==
Update! And edit...

Hey all. I'm back with a update on my painting. So, I figured out how I would separate the characters from the sky. It's hard to say if the sky is bright or not now, but looking at my reference photos of a sunny day, my painting of the sky seems to be accurate...maybe. I ended up changing the values in certain spots around the characters so they could pop more. It was tricky, as the girl's shirt and the Pokemon, she's holding, are blue. Also, giving the girl red hair helps separates her from the sky even further. So I could brighten her face, and her hair, without it causing trouble I believe...

Any who. What do you guys think of that values? Does it work?

Much help would be appreciated! also... (It was such a pain to edit this. Pic couldn't load, and I couldn't save the edit. Is this site buggy, or am I doing something wrong?)

Personally, I also don't like having light-on-light values because of like you said, the darks end up taking over.
I find that even on sunny days, there are still relatively dark shadowy areas in backgrounds- whether it be a tree, building, casted shadow, etc. and I like to strategically place them behind my focal point being lit.
At first glance, the background space seems to be the edge of a lake of some sorts? Looking at some photos some of them do seem to be in the darker register so maybe that could be a solution? Even if it is the sky, on a super bright day the sky could still be a medium to relatively dark shade too.
Otherwise, I'd say it's a matter of playing with more subtle value changes. say the bg could be an 8/10 brightness while the characters highlights could be all the way at 10/10?
Definitely is an issue i've ran into before and looking forward to see what your solution is, good luck!

Cool piece so far!
At first glance, the background space seems to be the edge of a lake of some sorts? Looking at some photos some of them do seem to be in the darker register so maybe that could be a solution? Even if it is the sky, on a super bright day the sky could still be a medium to relatively dark shade too.

The background space, is actually the sky. I set the horizon line bellow the girls dress. So, we are kinda looking up at the girl and her pokemon, but were also looking at the ground a bit (perspective is weird). And that empty space is the sky. Also, the ground is made up of clouds, with some grass poking through. It's a bit of a strange scene, but I wanted to keep things a bit magical.

So...I wonder...I could maybe add a cast shadow of a large cloud that ins't in frame...? But that would look strange?
Don't know why I didn't think of this, I looked at some pictures online, and it seems that painters usually keep the sky bright, but the grounds value seems to be darker. Or vice versa. Maybe that's what I got do...
Ah! I forgot, things in the foreground, are usually darker than the background. Not all the time, but it's another composition technique I remembered.
Okay...guess I'll experiment. hmmm...

Hey all. I'm back with a update on my painting. So, I figured out how I would separate the characters from the sky. It's hard to say if the sky is bright or not now, but looking at my reference photos of a sunny day, my painting of the sky seems to be accurate...maybe. I ended up changing the values in certain spots around the characters so they could pop more. It was tricky, as the girl's shirt and the Pokemon, she's holding, are blue. Also, giving the girl red hair helps separates her from the sky even further. So I could brighten her face, and her hair, without it causing trouble I believe...

Any who. What do you guys think of that values? Does it work?

Much help would be appreciated! also...(It was such a pain to edit this (page on website). Pic couldn't load, and I couldn't save the edit. Is this website buggy, or am I doing something wrong?)

Why not tone down the line work a bit. Maybe try using a soft color instead of the black, and also make it less dark, otherwise it completely dominates your rendering.

There won't be any line work once I'm all done painting. I just have them there as a guide, and I might use some of them for ambient occlusion. But, definitely most, if not all, line work will be gone.
I probably should have mention that first. Ah well, I'll remember next time...hopefully... I'll post an update on my painting eventually later when I'm done...

white rabbit is right, how are you gonna judge your values, because those dark lines influence that a lot. reduce their opacity so you can still see and use them as guides, while not having much of an impact on the value structure. especially if there aint going to be line work in your final.

why does it have to be a bright blue sky if it interferes with your protagonists as much? why not a close to sunset or early morning scenario when skies are not blue? or something else... its heavily stylized and not looking like it even needs to be realistic... why not make the sky yellow, pink or purple (or whatever for that matter)?

"Have only 4 values, but all the edges you want."
Glen Orbik

"To any man who has slaved to acquire skill in his art, it is most irritating to have his ability referred to as a 'gift.'"
Andrew Loomis

white rabbit is right, how are you gonna judge your values, because those dark lines influence that a lot. reduce their opacity so you can still see and use them as guides, while not having much of an impact on the value structure. especially if there aint going to be line work in your final.

why does it have to be a bright blue sky if it interferes with your protagonists as much? why not a close to sunset or early morning scenario when skies are not blue? or something else... its heavily stylized and not looking like it even needs to be realistic... why not make the sky yellow, pink or purple (or whatever for that matter)?

I judge my values by turning off the line layers. I've presented 4 pics. 2 with lines, and 2 without. 1 with color, 1 with out. I wasn't expecting anyone to look at the line layers. I shouldn't have added them in.

As for the sky, that's a great idea. Though, I based my colors around the blue sky...so I'm not sure how it would effect the rest of the painting once I change it. I can experiment, and see what happens, but usually once you change a big element like that base color, it sorta changes all of the colors... Not literally, but perception wise...Ah, it's hard to say. But it's like, the sky would effect stuff like, the ambient light. It would also definitely effect my clouds...It would effect the bunny Pokemon, or anything white, really...So....we'll see. I'm not that far into the painting, but I made a dent in it. I should of have experimented with the colors more before jumping straight in.

If you have some cash to spare , Nathan Fowke course on Schoolism covers a lot of helpful knowledge about comp and color/value control ( 30 bucks to watch videos lessons and video feedback )

You can do value grouping to help your picture read before doing more details , also worth noting that since you're doing digital , just use Lasso / Magic Wand to select area then Ctrl U to tweak the color to adjust things on the fly https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater

The Following User Says Thank You to Puruishi For This Useful Post:

Good work, I'd say it's not really a problem of colours but values, like @Lillendandie said. You've used a lot of mid and light grays in your composition but it misses some dark to very dark greys to balance it overall. You should use it to darken your shadows or the sky, as It's pretty flat in terms of contrast when you watch the black and white one. That could push some elements out of the image better.