(19-05-2015 10:50 PM)Stevil Wrote: What do any of these things have to do with marriage and divorce?
I do find Christianity's constant focus on sex to be really quite freaky.

My advise regarding avoidance of divorce would be:
1. Never forget that your partner is special, remind them often
2. Have trust, respect and faith in your partner
3. Don't take each other for granted
4. Have fun
5. Be patient, life isn't always a box of roses.

However, divorce isn't the worst thing that can happen. Sometimes it is the best thing
People change, situations change, there's no point continuing to live a life of misery for the ideal of "avoiding divorce". There is no reason why divorce can't be a happy and joyous occassion for both parties.

Trust, respect and faith are enhanced by moral purity.

It is your opinion that premarital sex is immoral. The Bible doesn't say that, so where are you getting it from?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.

(19-05-2015 10:25 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote: Robby, you may be a very loving husband, personally.

I wasn't trying to imply that I'm different than what you were stating. I was trying to get you to qualify what you were stating. You seemed to be implying something without actually saying it.

(19-05-2015 10:25 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote: May I recommend a book for further study? "Men Are from Mars, Women Are from Venus". Celebrate the differences, brother! If you are unaware that in general, not perhaps, in your case, women are more nurturing and romantic then men... you couldn't possibly be pretending not to know this, right?

I've heard that studies show that men and women are not nearly as fundamentally different as what that book would have us believe; at least not biologically. We might be quite different from a cultural perspective, but I see no reason to try to force that on people.

(19-05-2015 10:25 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote: And YES, YES, YES, men are to submit to their wives. But for men in that day, and remember, for most of history, men were getting practice submitting to elders, rulers, bosses in the workplace, men in the marketplace, etc. And men were wusses from Adam on up. Men find it EASY to submit. That's why the false preachers you hate get away with their crimes! Where are the men in those churches standing up to these losers?

I guess I don't see what "submit" means in this context. Doing what the other says, or what? In what ways do men submit to their wives that women don't submit to their husbands?

Both skeptics and believers use terms like "pure" as a synonym for "virgin" or "virginal". When someone is a virgin and further, has abstained from other forms of petting or sexual contact with others, you wouldn't call them "pure" or "more pure"?

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.

It is your opinion that premarital sex is immoral. The Bible doesn't say that, so where are you getting it from?

"Fornication" - premarital sex

"Adultery" - cheating in marriage

*To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is good for them to remain single as I am. But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

*Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.

*And he said, “What comes out of a person is what defiles him. For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person.” (here parsed into two, immorality and adultery)

*If a man is found lying with the wife of another man, both of them shall die, the man who lay with the woman, and the woman. So you shall purge the evil from Israel.

*If there is a betrothed virgin, and a man meets her in the city and lies with her, then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city, and you shall stone them to death with stones, the young woman because she did not cry for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbor's wife. So you shall purge the evil from your midst.

etc.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.

We both can supply anecdotes here, maybe even statistics, but it should be obvious that for most, not all, virgins who marry have nothing to compare/contrast with, can trust their spouse as faithful to begin with and etc.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.

(20-05-2015 09:56 AM)Chas Wrote: It is your opinion that premarital sex is immoral. The Bible doesn't say that, so where are you getting it from?

"Fornication" - premarital sex

"Adultery" - cheating in marriage

*To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is good for them to remain single as I am. But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

*Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.

*And he said, “What comes out of a person is what defiles him. For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person.” (here parsed into two, immorality and adultery)

*If a man is found lying with the wife of another man, both of them shall die, the man who lay with the woman, and the woman. So you shall purge the evil from Israel.

*If there is a betrothed virgin, and a man meets her in the city and lies with her, then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city, and you shall stone them to death with stones, the young woman because she did not cry for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbor's wife. So you shall purge the evil from your midst.

etc.

Nope, none of those clearly state that premarital sex is sinful.

And fornication is extramarital sex, not premarital.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.

Quote:I guess I don't see what "submit" means in this context. Doing what the other says, or what? In what ways do men submit to their wives that women don't submit to their husbands?

In NO ways. As I've written above, men get to practice submission all the time. Women struggle in this area. In the Garden of Eden, a better translation might be "You would want to usurp the man, but he will lead..." I believe that women may lead and be teachers, prophetesses, even apostles, as some were in the days of the apostles. But men are to be church elders.

But before you cry foul, understand that those who want to lead, per the Bible, must submit, defer and serve. Male church leadership is not meant to be a dictatorship but a place where men excelled in service to others.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.