Sheepdog, Greetings Brother, I know somewhere down the line we are bond to bang heads. But isn't that what families are like, we may fight among ourselves, but in the end family always sticks together. I think it was more than twice, but rare things are meant to be enjoyed while they are there. God Bless

__________________

If I can't have your respect, I'll have your fear, it's almost the same to me./ 'S .Rioghal . Mo . Dhream / Royal is my race.---- Once there was nothing. Then God spoke and then there was everything.

Hole size isnt that relevant without SHOT PLACEMENT
Central nervous system or brain.

You can shoot a clip or 2 at someone with a 45 and not kill them.
These events occur.
2 in the Chest, 1 in the head kills em dead.

True, if we were all perfect shots, we could use a .22 and shoot his spinal cord.

It's very difficult to shoot well under stress though, and that's why we aim for center of mass. You want the maximum amount of bleeding to occur in as short a time as possible: more often than not, that is what incapacitates the bad guy.

You want the maximum amount of bleeding to occur in as short a time as possible: more often than not, that is what incapacitates the bad guy.

It can take vital minutes to bleed someone out.
Ive literally killed dozens of deer and boar as a nuisance hunter and can say your post is nonsense, and I say that respectfully.

Deer and Hogs Ive shot still take 10-20 seconds to expire After being hit center mass (heart/lungs) with 30-06, 444, 30-30.
They can and do run a fair distance in that 10-20 seconds.

Guns are not death rays. Nor are bows.

Internal bleeding and hemorraging is vital, but hitting central nervous system and/or brain/spine is what puts them down and keeps em down.
And it takes several seconds usually if its center mass and not brain/spine

Location: Baanned 6/12/14, even tho he hasn't posted under this acct in two yrs. His current acct, combined with that picuture = future 6 o'clock news.

Posts: 3,208

Re: NRA Looks at .380 Pistols

Hhmmm,guess I'm old school...meaning I'm old!What is wrong with a 38 caliber wheel gun?2 inch barrel,6 rounds.About 24oz and 7 inches long.
Plus I always like the KISS priciple.If there is a misfire just keep pulling the trigger.

It can take vital minutes to bleed someone out.
Ive literally killed dozens of deer and boar as a nuisance hunter and can say your post is nonsense, and I say that respectfully.

Deer and Hogs Ive shot still take 10-20 seconds to expire After being hit center mass (heart/lungs) with 30-06, 444, 30-30.
They can and do run a fair distance in that 10-20 seconds.

Guns are not death rays. Nor are bows.

Internal bleeding and hemorraging is vital, but hitting central nervous system and/or brain/spine is what puts them down and keeps em down.
And it takes several seconds usually if its center mass and not brain/spine

When you shoot a wild animal, that is a good example. There, you have time to prepare. You are not in fear for your life. The animal is not pointing a gun at you. You are not under significant life or death stress.

And yet, you still miss and do not hit it in the central nervous system.

Why?

Even with a rifle, you are incapable of hitting an animal in the central nervous system. What makes you think you could hit a human in the central nervous system while he is trying to kill you? Not even with a rifle, but with a pistol!

Here is a study that the FBI did on handgun ballistics - this is the final conclusion. Read and learn:

Quote:

The will to survive and to fight despite horrific damage to the body is commonplace on the battlefield, and on the street. Barring a hit to the brain, the only way to force incapacitation is to cause sufficient blood loss that the subject can no longer function, and that takes time. Even if the heart is instantly destroyed, there is sufficient oxygen in the brain to support full and complete voluntary action for 10-15 seconds.

Kinetic energy does not wound. Temporary cavity does not wound. The much discussed "shock" of bullet impact is a fable and "knock down" power is a myth. The critical element is penetration. The bullet must pass through the large, blood bearing organs and be of sufficient diameter to promote rapid bleeding. Penetration less than 12 inches is too little, and, in the words of two of the participants in the 1987 Wound Ballistics Workshop, "too little penetration will get you killed." 42,43Given desirable and reliable penetration, the only way to increase bullet effectiveness is to increase the severity of the wound by increasing the size of hole made by the bullet. Any bullet which will not penetrate through vital organs from less than optimal angles is not acceptable. Of those that will penetrate, the edge is always with the bigger bullet.44

I've taught handgun classes since the 80's. I still carry the same Glock 17 9mm, after all these years. I have flirted with other platforms, and other calibers, but I still shoot my first Glock the best, and that's what matters.

The .380 is all the rave these days. It's certainly is better than a pointy stick, but I still think in a weapon in .38 caliber is minimum. And that's with premium modern hollow-points...

I like the 9mm fine. The ammunition for that caliber, has progressed light-years, from the 80's when it became wildly popular. Today, it's as good a combat caliber, as it's bigger brothers.

Dekalb Co., GA. PD (violent Atlanta suburb) shoots a lot of perps every year. They have been so pleased with their 9mm's and the Federal +P+ hollow-points, that they have never changed caliber. That 115gr. bullet at close to 1,300 fps, has dropped turds like a sack of 'tators, time after time.

Ironically enough, previously they carried S&W model 25's, in .45 Colt. It's "N" frame proved to big and heavy. In several shootings, the big slugs failed to put the bad guy down. It hurt moral badly. The final straw was when several bullets were defeated by windshield glass. They went to the Beretta 92 in 9mm...

As I told my students:

People carry handguns, because carrying a battle rifle around in K-Mart, draws too much attention. ALL handgun calibers are basically inadequate, but some are certainly superior to others. The .380 is certainly up-close/last-ditch, when it comes to self protection.

My two big sayings...

Accuracy beats horsepower...Tactics mean everything!

Get a permit. Carry your weapon. When the bad guy is robbing the 7-11, and you are stuck opening up the milk cooler door, a gun in the car is worthless...

OC spray is something everyone should carry. All brands are not created equal. Here's what I carry: (Heads-up some potty mouth!)

Oh yeah... I always have to add this, because being aware of your surroundings and using your common sense, is a self defence weapon, too!

It is incredible how persistent a black can be when you are walking in their direction.

I was walking on one side of the sidewalk and some black hobo was walking in my direction, so I shift course and walk in another direction. The dude turns in that direction on a dime. Then asks me for some change, brothah.