It really didn't matter who you guys played at QB in that game. BAMA's defense was dominant that night, as it was all year. Those who understand football can recognize the difference between an inept offense and a defense that renders an offense inept. LSU was unstoppable offensively with both Jefferson and Lee all year, with the exception of two games against the same opponent. As much as LSU fans hate to admit it, BAMA was simply the better team this year. Best to give props where props are due and focus on improving in the future. But if Tiger fans want to spend their time promoting conspiracy theories and playing the "what if" game, then they're only going to hurt themselves. Heck, the way things are going right now down there, they are discouraging potential walk ons from trying out.

Selam

But you shouldn't give up in a game. If option A isnt working, move to option B. I'm not saying we would've necessarily beaten Alabama that day, but I think it would've been a more closely contested game because we'd actually move the ball down field more.

I'd take Lee over Jefferson anyday, he's a much better quarterback and leader. Jefferson may be an amazing athlete, but he certainly isnt a good QB or leader.

But you know what's even more of a tragedy is if Peyton stays with the Colts you can bet on Luck sitting on the bench for a long time. I guess it's better than being on the Dolphins whose franchise is pathetic and a disarray at the moment.

What's great about Luck though is he can adjust to practically any receiver. At the college level I think he has alot of talent, how that's going to transition to the pros I have no idea. I hope he succeeds.

Logged

“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

This dispicible nonsense is by no means limited to Alabama fans. From reading the story, it sounds like there was plenty of blame to go around on all sides. What ticks me off is the people standing idly by why of all this went on. I imagine there were LSU fans as well as BAMA fans who failed to intervene to stop this assault.

Selam

« Last Edit: January 19, 2012, 12:36:58 AM by Gebre Menfes Kidus »

Logged

"There are two great tragedies: one is to live a life ruled by the passions, and the other is to live a passionless life."Selam, +GMK+

This dispicible nonsense is by no means limited to Alabama fans. From reading the story, it sounds like there was plenty of blame to go around on all sides. What ticks me off is the people standing idly by why of all this went on. I imagine there were LSU fans as well as BAMA fans who failed to intervene to stop this assault.

Selam

I never said it was limited to Alabama fans, but idc what team you support and whether or not you won, it is wrong.

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Quote

Where have Packers, Saints and other great offenses gone?January 20, 2012 LA Times

All sorts of passing records were set in the NFL this season, yet many of the quarterbacks who set them are watching the playoffs from their couches. So how is it that high-flying teams like Green Bay, New Orleans and Detroit failed to reach the conference championship round?

Dilfer reasons that defenses have a larger volume of material to study on an opponent now, so offenses have a harder time disguising what they do with "smoke and mirrors."

"You look at the Saints and you look at the Packers, and you look at some of the really good offensive teams, even the Patriots, they smoke-and-mirror you as good as anybody," Dilfer said. "At this time of the year, you've kind of shown your bag of tricks.

"You've kind of put everything out there on the table, and now you get a defensive staff and smart defensive football players that can break you down during the week,

Al Davis was wrong, the NFL has ALWAYS been a defense oriented game, teams can pass and throw all the MaddenNFL 2k12 numbers they'd like, stat sheets don't necessarily get Ws, and the best season-record rarely gets a Superbowl win..

As for the Packers, that was SOOOO predictable. Now the Saints? They got some impressive defense of their own, so that was a bit more surprising, but then again, the 9ers are a defensive team with a good offense to match to surprising but not not entirely unexpected.

The Patriots are going to fall to the same double edged sword, stat sheets may put TDs on the scoreboard, but defense keeps em low

stay blessed,habte selassie

Logged

"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Dwight Howard is simply a beast. He is the LeBron James of centers, a supreme athlete. The Kobes out there have technical precision and flexibility, which wins games with style, but the LeBrons are athletic beyond belief and simply put out amazing numbers and dominate.

In the NFL its not all about the stat sheets, but in quick-paced, night after night status of the NBA, stat sheets demonstrate just how impressive a player can be. LeBron may not have his ring yet, but rings aren't everything, and there isn't a player in the league who doesn't respect his talent and aggressive stance, and Dwight Howard is similarly a basketball machine.

I grew up on Magic Johnson and Michael Jordon, but what these young mid-career vets like Chris Paul, Dwight Howard, Lebron James, Dwayne Wade, Stoudemeire, and even some of these straight youngsters like Blake Griffin and Kevin Durrant or James Harden or Derrick Rose.. It is good to see the NBA revive back to its previous magic, the Spurs and Lakers have been dynasty teams in the 2000s, but that is only because there were not as many Dream Team caliber players in the league during this era, but now in the 2010s decade, we are getting back to the mid 1990s status. Just look at the finalists list for the upcoming 2012 US Olympic basketball team, and it is staggeringly good.

stay blessed,habte selassie

« Last Edit: January 21, 2012, 03:27:08 PM by HabteSelassie »

Logged

"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10

By the way, did y'all see the Heat tonight? Even my Laker fan homiez had to give LeBron his propz, especially on that remarkable block on Bynum's dunk..

stay blessed,habte selassie

I'd hate to admit it, but the Ravens have a good chance of beating the Patriots. And yes, LeBron James was great in that game. He might get his first ring this year.

As they say, any given Sunday. I am very nervous for Baltimore, its truly anyone's game! As to LeBron, even though rings aren't everything I sure hope he gets his ring so that all the haterz can relax a bit and just enjoy how entertaining that brotha's game is

I wish Steve Nash could have had his for similar reasons.

stay blessed,habte selassie

Logged

"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10

By the way, did y'all see the Heat tonight? Even my Laker fan homiez had to give LeBron his propz, especially on that remarkable block on Bynum's dunk..

stay blessed,habte selassie

I'd hate to admit it, but the Ravens have a good chance of beating the Patriots. And yes, LeBron James was great in that game. He might get his first ring this year.

As they say, any given Sunday. I am very nervous for Baltimore, its truly anyone's game! As to LeBron, even though rings aren't everything I sure hope he gets his ring so that all the haterz can relax a bit and just enjoy how entertaining that brotha's game is

I wish Steve Nash could have had his for similar reasons.

stay blessed,habte selassie

Interesting article about how Michael Jordan thinks Kobe Bryant the only current player who rates being compared to him.

For all of LeBron's supremely versatile athleticism, the one thing he seems to lack is the ruthlessness and the "GIMME THE BALL!" competitive drive and end-game leadership that Jordan and Bryant both possess. How many times has it been said that James disappeared in big games? Despite his inferior athleticism compared to James, Jordan, and Bryant, this is one thing that made Brandon Roy such a favorite with fans of the Portland Trail Blazers until his abrupt retirement before this season started. Every year of his short career, Roy was one of the league leaders in game winning baskets scored or assisted at the end of either regulation or overtime. His 18 points in the 4th quarter to lead the Blazers to victory over the eventual champion Mavericks in Game 4 of their first round series after falling 23 points behind, and on two knees virtually destroyed by multiple operations, has to be right up there in postseason heroics with Jordan's Flu Game (38 points in Game 5 of the 1997 NBA Finals while sick with the flu to give his Bulls a 3-2 lead over the Jazz).

By the way, did y'all see the Heat tonight? Even my Laker fan homiez had to give LeBron his propz, especially on that remarkable block on Bynum's dunk..

stay blessed,habte selassie

I'd hate to admit it, but the Ravens have a good chance of beating the Patriots. And yes, LeBron James was great in that game. He might get his first ring this year.

As they say, any given Sunday. I am very nervous for Baltimore, its truly anyone's game! As to LeBron, even though rings aren't everything I sure hope he gets his ring so that all the haterz can relax a bit and just enjoy how entertaining that brotha's game is

I wish Steve Nash could have had his for similar reasons.

stay blessed,habte selassie

Interesting article about how Michael Jordan thinks Kobe Bryant the only current player who rates being compared to him.

For all of LeBron's supremely versatile athleticism, the one thing he seems to lack is the ruthlessness and the "GIMME THE BALL!" competitive drive and end-game leadership that Jordan and Bryant both possess. How many times has it been said that James disappeared in big games? Despite his inferior athleticism compared to James, Jordan, and Bryant, this is one thing that made Brandon Roy such a favorite with fans of the Portland Trail Blazers until his abrupt retirement before this season started. Every year of his short career, Roy was one of the league leaders in game winning baskets scored or assisted at the end of either regulation or overtime. His 18 points in the 4th quarter to lead the Blazers to victory over the eventual champion Mavericks in Game 4 of their first round series after falling 23 points behind, and on two knees virtually destroyed by multiple operations, has to be right up there in postseason heroics with Jordan's Flu Game (38 points in Game 5 of the 1997 NBA Finals while sick with the flu to give his Bulls a 3-2 lead over the Jazz).

I can agree with Jordon's opinion but not your analysis of "where is LeBron in the big games" because he still has numbers, just unfortunately one player can't hold up an entire team for every game, Jordon had Pippen and Grant, Kobe had Shaq and then Gasol, so LeBron is just barely getting his chance to become that caliber. I would say that LeBron gives 110% in EVERY GAME of the season, which is entirely why sometimes he runs out of gas. For example, in the supposed let downs in the Dallas Miami series, LeBron averaged get this, 45 minutes per game, and even in that fourth quarter where they said he didn't show up, he had 2 rebound, 2 assists, 4 points, and took 8 shots so how did not show up? Further, he had a tripple double in one of those games, and averaged 44.5 minutes in the season, and it was his fourth consecutive post-season appearance. By the way, where exactly was Kobe in those big games against Boston on 2008, or against Dallas last year, even against Orlando Magic last night? Oh right, sometimes even the best of em have off nights

stay blessed,habte selassie

Logged

"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10

By the way, did y'all see the Heat tonight? Even my Laker fan homiez had to give LeBron his propz, especially on that remarkable block on Bynum's dunk..

stay blessed,habte selassie

I'd hate to admit it, but the Ravens have a good chance of beating the Patriots. And yes, LeBron James was great in that game. He might get his first ring this year.

As they say, any given Sunday. I am very nervous for Baltimore, its truly anyone's game! As to LeBron, even though rings aren't everything I sure hope he gets his ring so that all the haterz can relax a bit and just enjoy how entertaining that brotha's game is

I wish Steve Nash could have had his for similar reasons.

stay blessed,habte selassie

Interesting article about how Michael Jordan thinks Kobe Bryant the only current player who rates being compared to him.

For all of LeBron's supremely versatile athleticism, the one thing he seems to lack is the ruthlessness and the "GIMME THE BALL!" competitive drive and end-game leadership that Jordan and Bryant both possess. How many times has it been said that James disappeared in big games? Despite his inferior athleticism compared to James, Jordan, and Bryant, this is one thing that made Brandon Roy such a favorite with fans of the Portland Trail Blazers until his abrupt retirement before this season started. Every year of his short career, Roy was one of the league leaders in game winning baskets scored or assisted at the end of either regulation or overtime. His 18 points in the 4th quarter to lead the Blazers to victory over the eventual champion Mavericks in Game 4 of their first round series after falling 23 points behind, and on two knees virtually destroyed by multiple operations, has to be right up there in postseason heroics with Jordan's Flu Game (38 points in Game 5 of the 1997 NBA Finals while sick with the flu to give his Bulls a 3-2 lead over the Jazz).

I can agree with Jordon's opinion but not your analysis of "where is LeBron in the big games" because he still has numbers, just unfortunately one player can't hold up an entire team for every game, Jordon had Pippen and Grant, Kobe had Shaq and then Gasol, so LeBron is just barely getting his chance to become that caliber.

LeBron had Wade and Bosh last year, yet he still had people claiming that he would disappear when they needed him most.

I can agree with Jordon's opinion but not your analysis of "where is LeBron in the big games" because he still has numbers, just unfortunately one player can't hold up an entire team for every game, Jordon had Pippen and Grant, Kobe had Shaq and then Gasol, so LeBron is just barely getting his chance to become that caliber.

LeBron had Wade and Bosh last year, yet he still had people claiming that he would disappear when they needed him most.[/quote]

But he didn't disappear, he had rebounds, steals, blocks, assists, and points in all the fourth quarters of those play-off series. A lot of great teams lost to Dallas last play-offs, that is kind of how it works. In regard to LeBron not showing up, we'll just have to agree to disagree, but this all the more highlights why I feel he needs to get his ring so that folks will give him his credit due. Also, it takes more than one season for a team to gel together and get their chemistry, so it was actually more surprising that they got to the Finals at all realistically, and this season they have really found their rhythm as a team.

Quote

James averaged 20.9 points, 5.9 assists, and 5.5 rebounds per game for the season, and was named 2003–04 NBA Rookie of the Year; becoming the first Cavalier and youngest NBA player to ever receive the award. He joined Oscar Robertson and Michael Jordan as the only players in NBA history to average at least 20 points, 5 rebounds, and 5 assists per game in their rookie season

Quote

In 04/05 James became the youngest player in league history to record a triple-double and make the All-NBA Team; next season 05/05 He became the youngest All-Star MVP

Quote

and became the youngest player in NBA history to average at least 30 points. He became the fourth player in NBA history to average more than 30 points, 7 rebounds and 6 assists in a single season

Quote

In 2007 He joined Robertson and Magic Johnson as the only players in NBA history to average 27 points, 6 rebounds and 6 assists per game for three consecutive years.In the Eastern Conference Finals, James led the Cavaliers from an 0–2 deficit against the Detroit Pistons to win the series in six games. His performance in Game 5 was especially memorable. James recorded a franchise-record 48 points on 54.5% field goal shooting, to go with 9 rebounds and 7 assists. In addition, James scored 29 of Cleveland's last 30 points, including the team's final 25 points in a double-overtime victory. He concluded the night with a game-winning lay-up with 2 seconds left

Quote

He is the third youngest player to post 15 triple-doubles, behind Robertson and Magic Johnson.On March 5, 2008, James scored 50 points with 8 rebounds and 10 assists on the New York Knicks, becoming only the third player since the ABA-NBA merger to record a 50-point 10-assist gam

That is a lot of showing up and the brother's athleticism can not be denied. That is why again, rings aren't everything, but they don't hurt either

By the way, Kobe spent his rookie year on the bench and then got blessed to develop his superior talent on a championship level team whose roster was the envy of any other team for years, Jordon is some kind of mythical basketball force of nature of his own, and LeBron single handedly turned around a laughing stock team into an East coast threat in two seasons no less! If anything, my one criticism of him is that maybe he just needed to slow down, maybe he went out the gate running a little to fast, and that is why he couldn't keep it up both being the only carrying his team on his shoulders and playing way to hard, way to fast, and not letting time readjust. If anything, this last season and the current one is the first time LeBron finally slowed down a bit, experimented with new styles, and is developing instead of just using his current skills to dominate. That impresses me all the more..

No disrespect to Kobe or Jordon, but I really don't see why more folks aren't feeling LeBron as well?

stay blessed,habte selassie

« Last Edit: January 21, 2012, 11:47:19 PM by HabteSelassie »

Logged

"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10

By the way, did y'all see the Heat tonight? Even my Laker fan homiez had to give LeBron his propz, especially on that remarkable block on Bynum's dunk..

stay blessed,habte selassie

I'd hate to admit it, but the Ravens have a good chance of beating the Patriots. And yes, LeBron James was great in that game. He might get his first ring this year.

As they say, any given Sunday. I am very nervous for Baltimore, its truly anyone's game! As to LeBron, even though rings aren't everything I sure hope he gets his ring so that all the haterz can relax a bit and just enjoy how entertaining that brotha's game is

I wish Steve Nash could have had his for similar reasons.

stay blessed,habte selassie

Interesting article about how Michael Jordan thinks Kobe Bryant the only current player who rates being compared to him.

For all of LeBron's supremely versatile athleticism, the one thing he seems to lack is the ruthlessness and the "GIMME THE BALL!" competitive drive and end-game leadership that Jordan and Bryant both possess. How many times has it been said that James disappeared in big games? Despite his inferior athleticism compared to James, Jordan, and Bryant, this is one thing that made Brandon Roy such a favorite with fans of the Portland Trail Blazers until his abrupt retirement before this season started. Every year of his short career, Roy was one of the league leaders in game winning baskets scored or assisted at the end of either regulation or overtime. His 18 points in the 4th quarter to lead the Blazers to victory over the eventual champion Mavericks in Game 4 of their first round series after falling 23 points behind, and on two knees virtually destroyed by multiple operations, has to be right up there in postseason heroics with Jordan's Flu Game (38 points in Game 5 of the 1997 NBA Finals while sick with the flu to give his Bulls a 3-2 lead over the Jazz).

I can agree with Jordon's opinion but not your analysis of "where is LeBron in the big games" because he still has numbers, just unfortunately one player can't hold up an entire team for every game, Jordon had Pippen and Grant, Kobe had Shaq and then Gasol, so LeBron is just barely getting his chance to become that caliber.

LeBron had Wade and Bosh last year, yet he still had people claiming that he would disappear when they needed him most.

But he didn't disappear, he had rebounds, steals, blocks, assists, and points in all the fourth quarters of those play-off series. A lot of great teams lost to Dallas last play-offs, that is kind of how it works. In regard to LeBron not showing up, we'll just have to agree to disagree, but this all the more highlights why I feel he needs to get his ring so that folks will give him his credit due.

Quote

James averaged 20.9 points, 5.9 assists, and 5.5 rebounds per game for the season, and was named 2003–04 NBA Rookie of the Year; becoming the first Cavalier and youngest NBA player to ever receive the award. He joined Oscar Robertson and Michael Jordan as the only players in NBA history to average at least 20 points, 5 rebounds, and 5 assists per game in their rookie season

Quote

In 04/05 James became the youngest player in league history to record a triple-double and make the All-NBA Team; next season 05/05 He became the youngest All-Star MVP

Quote

and became the youngest player in NBA history to average at least 30 points. He became the fourth player in NBA history to average more than 30 points, 7 rebounds and 6 assists in a single season

Quote

In 2007 He joined Robertson as the only players in NBA history to average 27 points, 6 rebounds and 6 assists per game for three consecutive years.In the Eastern Conference Finals, James led the Cavaliers from an 0–2 deficit against the Detroit Pistons to win the series in six games. His performance in Game 5 was especially memorable. James recorded a franchise-record 48 points on 54.5% field goal shooting, to go with 9 rebounds and 7 assists. In addition, James scored 29 of Cleveland's last 30 points, including the team's final 25 points in a double-overtime victory. He concluded the night with a game-winning lay-up with 2 seconds left

Quote

He is the third youngest player to post 15 triple-doubles, behind Robertson and Magic Johnson.On March 5, 2008, James scored 50 points with 8 rebounds and 10 assists on the New York Knicks, becoming only the third player since the ABA-NBA merger to record a 50-point 10-assist gam

That is a lot of showing up and the brother's athleticism can not be denied. That is why again, rings aren't everything, but they don't hurt either

stay blessed,habte selassie

But season averages cover an 82-game regular season. They don't show what he does in the most important two or three games of the year. A superior athlete LeBron James is, and that cannot be denied. A ruthless competitor, one on the order of Jordan, Bird, Magic, Kobe, and even his own teammate Dwyane Wade, who will drive a dagger into the opponent's heart without a second thought to win a crucial game? So far, LeBron hasn't shown himself that.

But season averages cover an 82-game regular season. They don't show what he does in the most important two or three games of the year. A superior athlete LeBron James is, and that cannot be denied. A ruthless competitor on the order of Jordan, Bird, Magic, and Kobe who will drive a dagger into the opponent's heart to win a crucial game? So far, LeBron hasn't shown himself that.

There are a lot of opponents over the past few seasons in the play-offs who would beg to differ, like the Bulls, and the Celtics, and the Sixers

By the way, you might be romanticizing Kobe a bit because we here in Los Angeles can count as many times that he has let us down as he has won rings. Jordon I agree was CONSISTENT and simply COULDN'T LOSE however where was Kobe in 2008 Finals, or last season against Dallas, or again, last night against Orlando? You win some, you lose some, LeBron has won some and lost some like everybody else. Let him get his chance with a good team like the early 2000s Lakers and y'all see soon enough. These things take time, Kobe didn't get his ring for what, 4 years? Jordon what, 5?

stay blessed,habte selassie

Logged

"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10

But season averages cover an 82-game regular season. They don't show what he does in the most important two or three games of the year. A superior athlete LeBron James is, and that cannot be denied. A ruthless competitor on the order of Jordan, Bird, Magic, and Kobe who will drive a dagger into the opponent's heart to win a crucial game? So far, LeBron hasn't shown himself that.

There are a lot of opponents over the past few seasons in the play-offs who would beg to differ, like the Bulls, and the Celtics, and the Sixers

"A ruthless SOB" is not an apt description of LeBron James, and that's the point of my arguments.

By the way, you might be romanticizing Kobe a bit because we here in Los Angeles can count as many times that he has let us down as he has won rings. Jordon I agree was CONSISTENT and simply COULDN'T LOSE however where was Kobe in 2008 Finals, or last season against Dallas, or again, last night against Orlando?

I hate to bust your bubble, bub, but even Jordan had his clunkers in the playoffs. However, no one will deny that Michael Jordan was a ruthless son of a b**** (sometimes even to his own teammates) who would do anything to win a game. If such a competitor as Jordan recognizes some semblance of that competitive fire in Kobe but not in LeBron, then I'm inclined to agree with him.

You win some, you lose some, LeBron has won some and lost some like everybody else. Let him get his chance with a good team like the early 2000s Lakers and y'all see soon enough. These things take time, Kobe didn't get his ring for what, 4 years? Jordon what, 5?

I don't doubt that LeBron will eventually win that ring he covets so much. Even as a No. 2 option in the clutch, he will outshine virtually every No. 1, but he has shown that he needs someone else to take the mental load of being the No. 1 leader on his team. He may be the most gifted athlete the NBA has ever seen, one capable of doing amazing things at any time in any game, but he's made it readily apparent that he is not yet comfortable being the go to guy every time his team needs one.

f such a competitor as Jordan recognizes some semblance of that competitive fire in Kobe but not in LeBron, then I'm inclined to agree with him.

This my brother, was never debated, because I agreed with you and Jordon completely on that.

What I was debating with you was your claim that LeBron doesn't show up in big games, because his career testifies differently. LeBron has his let down moments, of course! But he has had well enough great moments to be worthy of the acclaim he receives.

Jordon is Jordon.

Kobe is Kobe.

LeBron is Lebron, and they are all clearly in the caliber of player, while not necessarily all d**ks on the court, because by the way, you're right, LeBron isn't, and that is actually always why I've liked him, he is a likable guy, which is also why I like Kevin Durrant and Lamar Odom, however Westbrook really needs an attitude adjustment as of lately.

stay blessed,habte selassie

Logged

"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10

f such a competitor as Jordan recognizes some semblance of that competitive fire in Kobe but not in LeBron, then I'm inclined to agree with him.

This my brother, was never debated, because I agreed with you and Jordon completely on that.

What I was debating with you was your claim that LeBron doesn't show up in big games, because his career testifies differently.

I never said LeBron doesn't show up in big games. I said that he often disappears in big games. I acknowledge that he has often shown up and blown opponents away in crucial games, but he has almost just as often seemed to run away and hide in other crucial games throughout his career.

LeBron is Lebron, and they are all clearly in the caliber of player, while not necessarily all d**ks on the court, because by the way, you're right, LeBron isn't, and that is actually always why I've liked him, he is a likable guy, which is also why I like Kevin Durrant and Lamar Odom, however Westbrook really needs an attitude adjustment as of lately.

stay blessed,habte selassie

And I have to admit that Jordan's selfishness is one of the reasons, if not the main reason, I just can't bring myself to think him the best player ever--OH, THE BLASPHEMY! Other great NBA athletes had the same ruthless competitive fire yet were loved by their teammates for the fact that they recognized their places within their teams and were willing to adapt to teammates. Early in his career, Jordan was a selfish ball hog who wouldn't trust his teammates and would often tear into them when they didn't play up to his standards. The fact that he eventually did adapt even a little bit to his team's system is in itself a great testament to the mastery of human psychology demonstrated by his HOF coach Phil Jackson, but that's a subject for a totally unrelated discussion.

f such a competitor as Jordan recognizes some semblance of that competitive fire in Kobe but not in LeBron, then I'm inclined to agree with him.

This my brother, was never debated, because I agreed with you and Jordon completely on that.

What I was debating with you was your claim that LeBron doesn't show up in big games, because his career testifies differently.

I never said LeBron doesn't show up in big games. I said that he often disappears in big games. I acknowledge that he has often shown up and blown opponents away in crucial games, but he has almost just as often seemed to run away and hide in other crucial games throughout his career.

LeBron is Lebron, and they are all clearly in the caliber of player, while not necessarily all d**ks on the court, because by the way, you're right, LeBron isn't, and that is actually always why I've liked him, he is a likable guy, which is also why I like Kevin Durrant and Lamar Odom, however Westbrook really needs an attitude adjustment as of lately.

stay blessed,habte selassie

And I have to admit that Jordan's selfishness is one of the reasons, if not the main reason, I just can't bring myself to think him the best player ever--OH, THE BLASPHEMY! Other great NBA athletes had the same ruthless competitive fire yet were loved by their teammates for the fact that they recognized their places within their teams and were willing to adapt to teammates. Early in his career, Jordan was a selfish ball hog who wouldn't trust his teammates and would often tear into them when they didn't play up to his standards. The fact that he eventually did adapt even a little bit to his team's system is in itself a great testament to the mastery of human psychology demonstrated by his HOF coach Phil Jackson, but that's a subject for a totally unrelated discussion.

A) I didn't think of this as an argument so much as a discussion like what goes down at the water cooler or the bus stop, one of which we have revealed how much we actually agree on

B) You're right, Jordon isn't the greatest player of the history of the game, in my opinion, when you factor in positive vibes and collaboration with magical talent and clutch come-through-moments the all-time best player should go to Magic Johnson

C)

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human psychology demonstrated by his HOF coach Phil Jackson,

AMENstay blessed,habte selassie

« Last Edit: January 22, 2012, 12:38:28 AM by HabteSelassie »

Logged

"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10

I'm glad that there are other people who agree with me that Michael Jordan isn't the greatest player ever. His success had a lot to do with assistance from Scottie Pippen, Dennis Rodman, and Horace Grant. Furthermore, he didn't make it to the NBA Finals until his seventh season. I'm not saying that he isn't one of the greatest players in NBA history, but it annoys when people think that Michael Jordan is untouchable and that there is no argument against him being the best.

B) You're right, Jordon isn't the greatest player of the history of the game, in my opinion, when you factor in positive vibes and collaboration with magical talent and clutch come-through-moments the all-time best player should go to Magic Johnson

I'm glad that there are other people who agree with me that Michael Jordan isn't the greatest player ever. His success had a lot to do with assistance from Scottie Pippen, Dennis Rodman, and Horace Grant. Furthermore, he didn't make it to the NBA Finals until his seventh season. I'm not saying that he isn't one of the greatest players in NBA history, but it annoys when people think that Michael Jordan is untouchable and that there is no argument against him being the best.

The best ever at his position of shooting guard? I suppose one could make a case for that.

My short list for all time starting team:PG: Magic JohnsonSG: Michael JordanSF: Larry Bird (only because LeBron hasn't been in the league long enough)PF: Tim Duncan (though I often put Bill Russell here, even though he played center, because, at 6'9", he was too short for the position by today's standards)C: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (though one can't discount how radically Wilt Chamberlain revolutionized the game of basketball)

Best ever, regardless of position: Magic JohnsonSecond best: probably Oscar Robertson, who didn't make my starting five simply because he played the same position as Magic Johnson. Who can argue with a player who averaged a triple-double through his first five years in the league?

I'm glad that there are other people who agree with me that Michael Jordan isn't the greatest player ever. His success had a lot to do with assistance from Scottie Pippen, Dennis Rodman, and Horace Grant. Furthermore, he didn't make it to the NBA Finals until his seventh season. I'm not saying that he isn't one of the greatest players in NBA history, but it annoys when people think that Michael Jordan is untouchable and that there is no argument against him being the best.

The best ever at his position of shooting guard? I suppose one could make a case for that.

My short list for all time starting team:PG: Magic JohnsonSG: Michael JordanSF: Larry Bird (only because LeBron hasn't been in the league long enough)PF: Tim Duncan (though I often put Bill Russell here, even though he played center, because, at 6'9", he was too short for the position by today's standards)C: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (though one can't discount how radically Wilt Chamberlain revolutionized the game of basketball)

Best ever, regardless of position: Magic JohnsonSecond best: probably Oscar Robertson, who didn't make my starting five simply because he played the same position as Magic Johnson. Who can argue with a player who averaged a triple-double through his first five years in the league?

You forgot Spud Webb.

Logged

If you will, you can become all flame.Extra caritatem nulla salus.In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness". सर्वभूतहितἌνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas GandhiY dduw bo'r diolch.

If you will, you can become all flame.Extra caritatem nulla salus.In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness". सर्वभूतहितἌνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas GandhiY dduw bo'r diolch.

I'm glad that there are other people who agree with me that Michael Jordan isn't the greatest player ever. His success had a lot to do with assistance from Scottie Pippen, Dennis Rodman, and Horace Grant. Furthermore, he didn't make it to the NBA Finals until his seventh season. I'm not saying that he isn't one of the greatest players in NBA history, but it annoys when people think that Michael Jordan is untouchable and that there is no argument against him being the best.

The best ever at his position of shooting guard? I suppose one could make a case for that.

My short list for all time starting team:PG: Magic JohnsonSG: Michael JordanSF: Larry Bird (only because LeBron hasn't been in the league long enough)PF: Tim Duncan (though I often put Bill Russell here, even though he played center, because, at 6'9", he was too short for the position by today's standards)C: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (though one can't discount how radically Wilt Chamberlain revolutionized the game of basketball)

Best ever, regardless of position: Magic JohnsonSecond best: probably Oscar Robertson, who didn't make my starting five simply because he played the same position as Magic Johnson. Who can argue with a player who averaged a triple-double through his first five years in the league?

You forgot Spud Webb.

How does Spud Webb count among the greatest of all time? He may have been the shortest player ever to win an NBA slam dunk contest, but that doesn't qualify him even for the long list of best players ever.

I don't know why I'm even wasting my time here trying to respond to the idiocy of anyone who states that Michael Lordan isn't the best player of all time. But I'll do so anyway, just because some things are too stupid to go unchallenged.

If you want to argue with these facts, then good luck:

1. He won 6 NBA Titles2. Jordan had no weaknesses in his game.3. He had a great Jump shot.4. He could use either hand, able to go to his left as well as his right.5. He was a great ball handler.6. He was a great rebounder.7. Best driving ability ever.8. Excellent defender (he led the league in steals more than once, and was named defensive player of the year. He was also a great shot blocker.)9. He made his teammates better (just ask anyone who played with him.)4. He possessed a wonderful basketball IQ.5. He had an unparralleled work ethic.6. His competitive streak was next to none.

You can cite Oscar Robertson's stats all day long (and they were quite amazing), but if you and I had the same 4 players going against each other, I'd gladly take Jordan in his prime over Oscar in his prime to add to my four any day of the week.

As for Magic, he's one of the top five of all time in my book. But he had weaknesses in his game. He wasn't a great defender, and he didn't have a great jump shot.

Jordan was the best that there's ever been, and I think the best that there will ever be. Like I said, there was not a weakness in his game whatsoever. He possessed the perfect combination of raw athleticism, fundamental precision, and all the intangibles. And BTW, the idea that he was a selfish player is absurd. You don't win 6 NBA titles by being selfish. Very early in his career he may have been a bit of a ball hog, but that's only because he had to be. He had no one around him then. But he matured quickly and placed complete trust in role players like John Paxon, Steve Kerr, and B.J. Armstrong- guys who would have been nothing without Jordan.

Anyway, I just had to set the record straight.

Selam

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"There are two great tragedies: one is to live a life ruled by the passions, and the other is to live a passionless life."Selam, +GMK+

If you will, you can become all flame.Extra caritatem nulla salus.In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness". सर्वभूतहितἌνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas GandhiY dduw bo'r diolch.