It’s hard to maintain a sense of equilibrium when you see all those around you, who have fought so hard for this issue, in emotional pain.

and another:

Obama is/was nothing more than another con-man politician . . . who knew how to speak the words that people outraged and despairing by eight years of Bush policies wanted to hear. But that’s all they were.

or this one:

We’re there to donate $, man phone banks, generate enthusiasm, and then let the “grown ups” make policy decisions the way they always did. We’re getting Clintonism w/o Clinton. Soon, we’ll get V-chips and school uniforms, or their contemporary equivalents.

and another:

if you take away the showmanship, it’s looking like Obama was never on the right side of that war – not even from the start.

and one more:

What’s really sad and maddening is that manypeople have worked through sickness and little money and others after a full week’s work, to get this. I’m not quite ready to believe it is dead, yet, but if they’ve known this for a long time, they have twisted the knife, by allowing us to spend our blood, sweat and tears, to no avail.

(BTW, the Daily Kos allows readers to recommend comments, so when you see numbers by the comments it indicates how many people are agreeing or not with the comment.)

So, here are two unbroken chains of comments (I did not want to be picking and choosing, just took two tranches from the front page of 1,321 comments!) posted by DailyKos readers. My strong recommendation is to click through to the Daily Kos, since the cut and paste job below does not do the site or the comments justice. Also, the cut and paste below makes it difficult to follow the comments. Here’s the link again.

…falling poll numbers is their fault, not ours. Their lack of explanation in plain speak to the American Public is their fault. Their lack of clarity and cohesiveness is their fault. Their vagueness of what this health care bill will be is their fault. Their lack of response during the month of August is their fault. Their lack of organizing until the last minute is their fault.

My brother, a true conservative Democrat (loves him some military, doesn’t think torture was bad, but voted for Obama over McCain) said to me if Obama can’t get healthcare done, the he’s done with him.

My brother is a teacher, so he has and will continue to have health insurance. But he knows how important this is. Not just for himself, but for our country. This isn’t about reform, we need proper insurance/healthcare for all. So it’s not just his liberal base that’s done with him if he throws us under the bus on this, he can pretty much write off the entire party.

That’s not a threat. That’s just the way it is. So I hope the WH understand this.

As to the fate of a government option plan to compete with private insurance, Axelrod suggested the controversial concept is gone but not forgotten: “The spirit that led him to support a public option is still very much at play here and so you know he wants competition. He wants choice. “

Well, there are NOT — NOT!!! — “lots of different ways to get there”. Let’s stand up and challenge the “unnamed” WH source to name even one or two of those “different ways to get there”, and have him or her explain exactly how those ways would work “to get us there” — other than simply making the assertion.

So, we need to respond with that specific challenge, because that gets right to the heart of this debate. If they are going to float the idea, then make them defend it. If they cannot defend it, the idea dies, or they are stuck pleading a dead, defenseless idea. And Obama is (hopefully) too smart to try to do that.

We’re there to donate $, man phone banks, generate enthusiasm, and then let the “grown ups” make policy decisions the way they always did. We’re getting Clintonism w/o Clinton. Soon, we’ll get V-chips and school uniforms, or their contemporary equivalents.

Some men see things as they are and ask why. I see things that never were and ask why not?

I haven’t given up calling/writing the WH and my congressmen but I have given up hope. I’m letting them all know that I will not give money anymore and I will sit out the 2010 and 2012 elections. Fuc* them.

I got a fundraising call last night for Senator Patty Murray. The poor call center rep went into her script and I stopped her and asked her the only important question IMHO at this moment — where does Sen. Murray stand on the public option. All she could do was say I don’t know and send me to her web page. *uck that.

The sale actually occurred some time ago. It occurred when Obama never used the bully pulpit to rally support for the PO. It occurred when “The Gang of 6″ became the point people on the Hill and Grassley was allowed to stall momentum on the bill. It occurred when Rahmbo cut all of his side deals w/ PhRMA and the AMA.

The WH slow-played us on the PO. The idea has been dead for weeks, but they gave us lip service to let us down slowly. We’ve been punked here.

Some men see things as they are and ask why. I see things that never were and ask why not?

people have worked through sickness and little money and others after a full week’s work, to get this. I’m not quite ready to believe it is dead, yet, but if they’ve known this for a long time, they have twisted the knife, by allowing us to spend our blood, sweat and tears, to no avail.

about not jumping to conclusions based on all the tidbits we’ve seen in the news, but I’d be lying if I didn’t say that even I am becoming disillusioned.

It’s hard to maintain a sense of equilibrium when you see all those around you, who have fought so hard for this issue, in emotional pain.

I will wait for the speech, but I’m not encouraged at this point that Liberals and Progressives may see the results we all hoped so desperately for…

I have supported the President, but I’m not a fool. Maybe he is not our FDR, but that will remain to be seen. Part of the equation is what congressional members, and more importantly, the Democrats, will also do. I’m not sure if even the 65 will hold fast. I hope I’m wrong.

So, first the speech, and then I’ll gladly join in whatever opposition there is if we do not get a robust public option. And i will be truly be sad for us all-I am sad now.

I’ve always tried to speak my true feelings here and my true estimate of the political realities that are often quite vexing, and perhaps, not as idealistic as we are, and PB, saying what I did brought me to tears as well because it was so hard to continue to insist that we didn’t have cause to be discouraged.

The sale last occurred last year, as soon as the Gang of Banksters were allowed to raid the Treasury so they could continue with business as usual – eating up the smaller banks who couldn’t survive the recession, eating up the millions of foreclosed homes whose residents are now living in tent cities, and eating up thousands of potentially healthy small businesses which are now going to have to close.

Health care is a huge issue, but it isn’t the issue.

The central issue is – who the economy is for? Is it for a few greedy sociopathic CEOs and speculators, or is it for everyone?

Health care is just one battle in that war.

And so far, if you take away the showmanship, it’s looking like Obama was never on the right side of that war – not even from the start.

We need to shoot this down, and we need a way to be visible across the whole country. We need a symbol that we can all affix to our cars like a yellow ribbon that is a tangible way for the people in the WH to see that they don’t want this particular fight.

We rolled over on the Wall Street Bailout, and there have been plenty of other indications to the WH that we the progressives are not that formidable as an opponent.

I think HCR is different. Let’s figure out a way to make that difference visible.

I doubt its a trial balloon. I think its a done deal. Too many statements by too many upper mucky-mucks in the Obama administration are making it clear that Obama just doesn’t consider his campaign promises important enough to bother fighting for. Plus Rahm is telling him he’ll lose all that health-care lobby cash if he pisses them off by creating something that gives them competition.

Not wanting to seek Republican approval for everything Democrats do means you’re “The Left of the Left”.

by William Domingo on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 02:16:33 PM PDT

[ Parent ]
+
So what if he loses the cash (0+ / 0-)

The repubs won’t get it because the insurers will be dead in the water trying to rebuild.

All of Obama’s public posturing that he wants a public option is just that . . . empty posturing . . . . with no real heart or conviction behind it. Why do you think the White House has been so half-assed about fighting for and making sure the message gets out about a public option? (And yet, how many diaries and comments on this site have I read telling me that Obama REALLY WANTS a public option. Why? Well, because he said so publicly.)

Slim, it’s nice to see you finally waking up from this cult of personality you helped build on this site here around Obama. Like they say: Better late than never.

Like I told you before, Slim, Obama is/was nothing more than another con-man politician . . . who knew how to speak the words that people outraged and despairing by eight years of Bush policies wanted to hear. But that’s all they were.

Once in power, as they say: “Meet the new boss; same as the old boss.”

And for those of you nourishing the illusion that Hillary would have been any better, guess what? You’re just as deluded as the Obama worshippers. The same interests, either directly or indirectly, owned and controled BOTH politicians, . . . . as well as the Democratic Party establishment. (Hell, why do you think the CORPORATE media annointed them the front runners early on, and gave them all the attention? )

by LivinginReality on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 06:39:37 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

*
That’s no excuse (0+ / 0-)

The “he never cared” meme is there to tamp down protest from the left by pinning us as the unreasonable ones. It’s a way to convince people that Obama doesn’t deserve criticism.

Our planet is in jeopardy, our people are dying from preventable problems, and those in need aren’t being listened to. Who expects this to end well for him?

I’m not worried about government bureaucrats between me and my doctor; I’m worried about insurance bureaucrats between me and my Senator.

by PsychicToaster on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 07:18:49 PM PDT

[ Parent ]
o
Did you read the article from Hamsher . . . . (0+ / 0-)

I linked to?

Or are you just giving me a knee-jerk reaction?

I dare you to accuse Jane Hamsher of cooperating in an agenda of “tamp[ing] down protest from the left by pinning us as the unreasonable ones. It’s a way to convince people that Obama doesn’t deserve criticism.”

If you read the article, you’ll see that Obama and the members of his group in the White House DESERVE lots of criticism.

by LivinginReality on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 07:23:18 PM PDT

[ Parent ]
+
Whoa, friendly fire (0+ / 0-)

I might not have worded it well, if that’s the reaction.

I’m saying that yes, he and his circle deserve every bit of criticism they are getting and more. Claiming he never publicly supported the PO is simply untrue, and pushing that line just undercuts that criticism by suggesting he doesn’t deserve it.

I’m not worried about government bureaucrats between me and my doctor; I’m worried about insurance bureaucrats between me and my Senator.

by PsychicToaster on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 07:51:14 PM PDT

[ Parent ]
#
Again: Did you read the article? (0+ / 0-)

BTW, no one said Obama never “publicaly supported the PO.”

Rather, what is being said is that his “public support for a PO” has been nothing more than empty posturing and a shrewd political ploy all along, with no real conviction behind it.

Once again, read the article before you post.

by LivinginReality on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 07:54:27 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

#
“CH” Swapping: Axelrod’s Secret Formula Revealed! (0+ / 0-)

I agree with Lava20 that this is just total bullshit:

As to the fate of a government option plan to compete with private insurance, Axelrod suggested the controversial concept is gone but not forgotten: “The spirit that led him to support a public option is still very much at play here and so you know he wants competition. He wants choice. “

Boy, that sounds damn close to the prior mantra: “He wants Change”

I wonder if we will soon get the new Choice derivatives:

Choice You Can Believe In

I was very impressed by Axelrod as an ad-man and messaging man in the campaign. He’s a real pro, very disciplined, and they built and developed the greatest branding job ever in a Presidential Campaign, even carried a visual look and feel all the way from campaign, to election, to transition, to inauguration, to occupation… of the White House… and beyond that to the old CH word: Change.gov — which if you read my sigline you’ll see I have loated since its inception as bulls**t marketing.

While it is essential that a President also “sell his ideas” and policies to America, I don’t want some ad-man massaging words in the White House to shape the course of national debate.

And Obama is taking a big

Chance

on that if he expects to achieve anything of a legacy, other than “First African-American President” and “Failed Obsession with Fantasy Post-Partisan Era”.

What I simply don’t understand, at all, is why they feel the need to walk this back. Do they not see any wind in the sails of Ted Kennedy’s death? Are they oblivious? Or are they Chicken-S**t?