H5: Evolved settings/details [V4 update, Part 2-MAPS!]

Recommended Posts

Yes we have talked about this a ton actually and that isn't the consensus at all. I assume you were playing with arglactable, seeing as he is the biggest advocate of removing that out of everyone simply because he dies to it. The thing about this is, for one, we already nerfed the timers for them. They have a longer respawn time now and an even shorter despawn time. There's usually only one or two of these in play at one time. It would be one thing if it broke gameplay, like the BR did; I have been able to justify that with multiple communities with no issue. When Killmachine originally brought this up that we were removing the BR, DMR, Light Rifle, Carbine, and SMGs on Waypoint, the reaction that was received immediately was expected and what I keep saying with this argument. "Wait, you're removing those weapons.. Stupid decision."

Removing a weapon simply because it's better, is a terrible reason to remove it from the game. It's a weapon on the map.. It should be better. Nerf? Sure thing (which we've done to an extent). But just outright stripping weapons out of the sandbox because the gun is better than mine is literally the worst route we can take as far as promoting these settings. We've gone the route of exchanging the scopes on some of the maps to get mitigate some of the distance advantage (Narrows for example).

I'm down for weapon variety but drying the weapon sandbox is going to make for a boring experience.

I agree with what you said. However,

It is frustrating to die from DMR close range though when you have a Pistol. If DRM is better at close range AND medium to long, why not just spawn with it and let it be the utility weapon? The answer is because close range pistol vs pistol is more skillful. But it is often that you die from dmr in close range battles when you were the one with the pistol. Every time I died from DMR at close range when I had a pistol, the first thought that ran through my mind was "I wish I had a drm in that battle." It's like spawning with an smg in Halo 2 and you immediately hunt for a BR. In these settings I always pick up a DMR as soon as possible.

Carbine doesn't have the same problem because the fire rate and number of shots ups the skill required for payoff anyways. In my mind picking up the carbine, I know I can be better with it, but it is going to take way better precision on my part at a faster rate. DMR is so easy and lackadaisical and easier to use than the pistol in basically every situation IMO, which makes me think it should either go OR become the utility choice. If it becomews the utility choice, then there goes the sweet pistol vs pistol close range battles that can't be beat.

Share this post

Link to post

Pretty much everyone in the lobby seemed in favor of removing the DMR. Not just me. The only one playing these settings regularly who seems to think there is any reason NOT to remove that almost entirely redundant weapon is DeucEy. All the DMR does is create uneven fights. It has no other function or significant differentiating property, aside from the aesthetics. Again, I'm not saying we need to remove a bunch of weapons. The DMR is the most blatantly redundant weapon in the game.

Share this post

Link to post

Tbf Deucey you kinda called out arg first saying he is the only one who cares 'cause he dies a lot to it.

Let's just start a square one. If waypointers are really that much against removing the DMR then my vote is to make it the starting weapon and be done with it. It causes too much redundancy in the sandbox while also creating uneven fights.

Share this post

Link to post

To anyone posting their tags, it's hard for us to go back and see the new names + remember your tag. Add us and make sure you do NOT appear offline. Send us a message and we will be more likely to invite you.

Share this post

Link to post

Tbf Deucey you kinda called out arg first saying he is the only one who cares 'cause he dies a lot to it.

Let's just start a square one. If waypointers are really that much against removing the DMR then my vote is to make it the starting weapon and be done with it. It causes too much redundancy in the sandbox while also creating uneven fights.

I did, and you're right, but if you would understand where this all started from weeks ago, you would know exactly why it was brought up. It's not like I'm intentionally trying to call him out for being bad or anything; I never said that and I don't care about his skill level because all of us started from somewhere at some point. You just have to understand how he gets in the middle of every single session we play. And it wasn't the fact that he mentioned my name, it's the fact that he painted this false picture of me and made an extremely bold lie that he knows is false, (which I just brought up in the Discord and proven otherwise) which I had a problem with.

People disagree with me all the time. I have no problem with that, just like I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong. (For instance in the other Evolved settings thread, go back to when I was defending the BR starts. I had ZERO issue with admitting I'm wrong when we transferred to 4sk settings). It was the straight up lie that rubbed me the wrong way just now.

Share this post

Link to post

We've argued this several times already and each and every time you have presented to this Waypoint and Reddit, arg, what was the result?

What was LITERALLY the FIRST response when Killmachine presented that fact in the Waypoint thread for example? I'll wait.

I am not the only person who thinks that way and that was completely inaccurate statement. I have zero clue why you would even say that, KNOWING it's not true.

Well, I apologize for not keeping track of every single person who has briefly voiced support for it on one platform or another. You specifically mentioned me and the fact of the matter is that the vast, vast majority of the discussion has had you on the "leave it in" side, with minimal contribution from anyone else. I'm not intentionally misrepresenting the situation here. The anti-DMR argument isn't just just me specifically not liking that I die to it, but I'm not about to call you a liar for repeating that (more than once). I'm not sure what exactly I would have to gain here by lying. What I said was a direct response to the specifics of your post, which singled me out. But sure, some other people agree with you. You're right. I'm wrong. Whatever.

That said, it is more than a bit annoying to me that any cut is now seemingly depicted as if it is the start of some slippery slope towards removing every vaguely redundant weapon from the sandbox. We don't need to advertise that we leave out a handful of weapons from maps, aside from perhaps the BR (because it absolutely has to be gone and is an "iconic" weapon a lot of people are attached to). It's a simple matter of tuning the weapon layouts on maps. Would the people who are concerned by this really be heavily scrutinizing maps featuring only Magnums, Carbines, and Light Rifles for precision pick-ups? I would be surprised.

Share this post

Link to post

I feel like if they're going to be on a forge map, one we have absolute control over and don't need to adhere to a preexisting layout, then they better be used sparingly and have a VERY clear purpose in mind, not just littered about just to have one.

My real issue is that the LR fills the DMR role so freaking much better. The DMR just serves as a straight upgrade from the pistol, and deaths from it feel like dying to the weapon and not the player. It's not game breaking by any means, but the DMR in its current form is a pet peeve of mine.

Share this post

Link to post

I think the DMR in or out argument is fair, but I also think we can find a compromise or collaborate to find a new option that satisfies most everyone.

For instance, what if we lowered the amount of rounds that the DMR spawns with and bumped up the respawn time (a little more)?

The Evolved DMR is a 4sk right? We could put 16 rounds in it at spawn and expect, at most, four perfect kills against full shielded opponents and maybe six against weak shielded players. Also, if the general lifespan per player spawn is shorter in Evolved than in regular settings (which I think I saw some people say it is), we know that realistically any given player won't be able to obliterate the other team very easily.

If you bump up the respawn time for the weapon there is a good chance it will only be in play three or four times a game.

This way, the DMR is still in, but it now has limited ammo and time in play.

Share this post

Link to post

As long as they're not on every map, and they have a distinct purpose when they are used, then I'm ok with it. I don't think we would need to gimp it's ammo that severely, as that'd be another one of those "wtf" moments when people try it out. I think that's a case of overthinking it. I'd like to see one or two on bigger maps, maps where the LR's range might not be quite right, and it's obvious that the DMR is intended to be the 'mini-sniper' suppressive weapon.

Another great way to include it would be on asym maps where you could have an alien side and a human side. Maybe on one side of a courtyard or ravine you'd put an LR and on the other side by a downed pelican or something you'd put the DMR. It could be a good inclusion when you factor in the theme of a map.

Speaking of asyms, do we have any right now? The only maps I know that we're using are White Cell, Shiftspace, and Bias, all of which are symmetrical. We need some solid asyms for TS, SH and Ball.

And lastly, speaking of Oddball, once we find a good asym for it, someone needs to be a champion and make a dedicated version of the map just for ball so that the spawns work correctly (dynamic, not sided). Preferably the asym would be a floating map so you could play ball. I imagine it would be the only asym Ball map in our rotation, and maybe we could use a circular symmetrical map as a second ball map, one where you can't play ball. One map would be the setup map, and the other would be the rotate map.

And lastly, not sure if they're options or not, but how do you guys feel about using these for asyms:

-Random starting spawns

-Delayed powerup and power weapon spawns (30s or 1m probably)

1

Share this post

Link to post

@@SMARTAN 427 @@-DeucEy-, I'm interested in making a trailer/montage for these settings, around 90ish seconds long. I have a song I like but I need to cut it up and see if it still sounds ok. Before I do it I'll need:

-Finalized settings

-At least 11 gametypes on at least 7 maps (I feel like thats a minimum for a playlist)

-2 working Oddball maps, preferably an asym and an arena style.

-Lots of clips

-An Evolved settings gamertag whom's fileshare I can direct people to

Also I'd like to converse with this thread about the type of language the text should use, and what the trailer needs to get across.

3

Share this post

Link to post

@@SMARTAN 427 @@-DeucEy-, I'm interested in making a trailer/montage for these settings, around 90ish seconds long. I have a song I like but I need to cut it up and see if it still sounds ok. Before I do it I'll need:

-Finalized settings

-At least 11 gametypes on at least 7 maps (I feel like thats a minimum for a playlist)

-2 working Oddball maps, preferably an asym and an arena style.

-Lots of clips

-An Evolved settings gamertag whom's fileshare I can direct people to

Also I'd like to converse with this thread about the type of language the text should use, and what the trailer needs to get across.

Funnily enough, I've been working on something of the sort myself (putting together a Halo remix for the backing track as well). Still need more clips, though. Why haven't you joined the Evolved Discord server yet?

Share this post

Link to post

Funnily enough, I've been working on something of the sort myself (putting together a Halo remix for the backing track as well). Still need more clips, though. Why haven't you joined the Evolved Discord server yet?

Share this post

Link to post

@@SMARTAN 427 @@-DeucEy-, I'm interested in making a trailer/montage for these settings, around 90ish seconds long. I have a song I like but I need to cut it up and see if it still sounds ok. Before I do it I'll need:

-Finalized settings

-At least 11 gametypes on at least 7 maps (I feel like thats a minimum for a playlist)

-2 working Oddball maps, preferably an asym and an arena style.

-Lots of clips

-An Evolved settings gamertag whom's fileshare I can direct people to

Also I'd like to converse with this thread about the type of language the text should use, and what the trailer needs to get across.

Well, you can already find the Evolved gametypes in my Files. @@-DeucEy- has the maps in his own Files currently, but I plan on making a lot of lighting and coloring improvements to most of the maps.

Eventually I want to have the maps in my Files as well just so that everything for Evolved is in one place.