To be honest, the reason I boulder and sport waaaaaay more than trad is convenience and locality. If Arraps was less of a punish to drive to from NSW (ie if I lived in Melbourne and half the local communtiy were there Id be climbing with gear, bolts or crash pad). Also comes back to learning to climb on bolts, and occasional mixed routes, and also when I was younger money was a limiting factor too.

As a young(er) climber, I just find it difficult to find an experienced partner to learn from, to place gear, and be confident in those placements. Especially in Sydney. I;m harassing my friends to go out all the time, but even then I'm the most 'experienced' person there, and I'm not prepared to just wing it learning trad.

On 28/01/2013 Big G wrote:>I bought 10 draws for $100. What sort of rack do you think that would buy?>Money is the main reason.>>PS my rack is building.... slowly. I have started to lead a few trad climbs>I have previously seconded.

$100 would buy a decent amount of second hand nuts and hexes. Enough to get up your first year of trad climbing! :-)

On 29/01/2013 Snacks wrote:>I dabble with trad when the opportunity arises, but I'd say generally the>setup with trad is a lot more constraining...>>In short...>>Time, money, risks, planning, training and effort are all generally higher>per individual climb.

On 27/01/2013 Macciza wrote:>...Not everything was spurt climbing in NSW in the early 90's either. Shipley>had a lot of mixed routes, carrots and gear, that got retro'd, probably>before you got there . . . As did many other local crags that have since>been retro'd as well. NarrowNeck had no rings, except for the curtain hangers>in the roof - 'Strange Car . . '?...

It sounds like people climb sport because most of the trad climbs worth doing in NSW have been retrobolted.

The rock influences the predominant style which influences the ethic which leads to retroing.

Edit: As a climber who has been living in NSW/ACT for 7 years, I feel that I've been here long enough to say that Victorian climbing is better (because of the ethics)*, without being accused of bias.

>>Yep. I still have a tiny lack of range left, and it does hurt a bit to>stretch it still, but it doesn't bother me on daily stuff or climbing.>I was going completely insane and being able to climb even though it was>piss easy stuff mad a massive difference. Your's still hurts? That's crap.> My physio's instructions are to keep stretching, go climbing and work>up to full push ups. Now I'm going insane from being sick, but that looks>like it's going to be over soon too, still it's put even those very simple>remaining rehab instructions behind schedule. Heading to Tassie next week>only climbing 15s. I'll be hunting out all the easy trad around for the>first week or so.

Ok. Sounds like my doctor is just a bit more conservative as he wants me to be totally pain free before climbing. I can do plenty of push ups and pull ups without pain, but stretching in a few directions hurts a bit still.

On 29/01/2013 nmonteith wrote:>On 29/01/2013 Climboholic wrote:>>>>People climb sport because most of the trad climbs worth doing in>NSW>>have been retrobolted.>>>>Not exaggerating are we? I don't think the Eternitys, Icebirds, Echo Cracks,>Flight of Pheniox, Strangeness and Charms have been retroed have they?>There is plenty of unblemished trad routes in NSW!

I said most and I was referring mainly to the Bluies.

The point I was making was that a sport ethic develops in an area that is predominantly sport.

I learnt to climb on trad, then I moved to Canberra and was quite happy (if not a little scared at times) on ACT granite. Then I moved to Newcastle and I lost interest in climbing for a while due to the lack of trad options within 3 hours.

Vanessa, I'd be keen to know where the trad that's not in the guidebooks is? I enjoyed the handful of climbs at my grade (<20) at the Zawn and a few days at Monkey Face, but I started to run out of inspiration after about a year. It's also hard to get most people I know around here motivated for a trad trip.

I was making the point that the iconic trad routes - the big lines, are still unbolted. I don't think anyone would have called the Upper Shipley wall a 'trad' crag. It was a mixed place at best, heaps of bolts. Piddo and Cosmic still have heaps of cracker cracks for the trad climber. Point Perp is another spot with heaps of big trad lines. No one has drilled bolts next to established cracks that I can think of apart from at Nowra (which I was a little sad about).

On 29/01/2013 Climboholic wrote:>On 29/01/2013 nmonteith wrote:>>On 29/01/2013 Climboholic wrote:>>>>>>People climb sport because most of the trad climbs worth doing in>>NSW>>>have been retrobolted.>>>>>>>Not exaggerating are we? I don't think the Eternitys, Icebirds, Echo>Cracks,>>Flight of Pheniox, Strangeness and Charms have been retroed have they?>>There is plenty of unblemished trad routes in NSW!>>I said most and I was referring mainly to the Bluies.>>The point I was making was that a sport ethic develops in an area that>is predominantly sport.>>I learnt to climb on trad, then I moved to Canberra and was quite happy>(if not a little scared at times) on ACT granite. Then I moved to Newcastle>and I lost interest in climbing for a while due to the lack of trad options>within 3 hours. >>Vanessa, I'd be keen to know where the trad that's not in the guidebooks>is? I enjoyed the handful of climbs at my grade (<20) at the Zawn and a>few days at Monkey Face, but I started to run out of inspiration after>about a year. It's also hard to get most people I know around here motivated>for a trad trip.>>

>Not exaggerating are we? I don't think the Eternitys, Icebirds, Echo Cracks,>Flight of Pheniox, Strangeness and Charms have been retroed have they?

Strangeness had 5 big bolts retroed into the first pitch. They were quickly removed by the retroer (placing them was a bit of snap decision while trying to find a way to make Bungers more approachable for a greater cross section of the climbing community).