The truth about a complex built for veterans and the middle class and how it has evolved through the years to become one of the more interesting and controversial of New York stories.

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Monday, April 16, 2012

Stuy Town Redo, Part 2 or... Wake up, TA!

Our Tenants Association and Councilman Dan Garodnick have put a lot of energy into the concept of tenant ownership of Stuyvesant Town and Peter Cooper Village, voicing an assured observation that surely now, with the real estate market in a slump (sorry, the slump has passed in Manhattan already) and a heavy debt leaning on the property, CW Capital, the company that represents the senior lenders in the first sale of this property, will want to eagerly jump on the opportunity being offered by the partnership of the Tenants Association and Brookfield for a tenant/Brookfield buyout of ST/PCV.

CW Capital, meanwhile, has remained impassive toward these approaches and is forging ahead on a master plan. Take a look at what's happening around here to get a clue as to what this plan may be.

Along 1st Ave., store fronts are getting a do-over:

There's significant grounds work being done at this moment in the south-western part of Stuy Town, surely foretelling what's going to happen elsewhere:

A push is being made to promote the complex's official social media (Facebook, Twitter, etc.), and present a sunny outlook of ST/PCV for all the world to see:

And the Oval Essentials/Amenities are getting "refreshed".....

Oddly, many of these changes are being made on relatively recent changes...like when this property was being prepped for the auction block by MetLife. So this is Stuy Town/PCV Redo, Part 2. And if you think that CW Capital is putting all this money and effort into the property so that it can hand it over on a silver platter to the TA/Brookfield, I got all the bridges in New York to sell to you.

EXACTLY what we've been saying all along. No offense to the TA, I'm sure they work hard and deserve credit, but this property is going to be sold to another Tischman- corporation. There are plenty of sharks circling out there and CWC has no interest in talking to us.

If the price is right, CW will talk, but the TA and Brookfield will just be one entity among others in the bidding war. What this probably means is that tenants will have to fork over more money than previously thought to be seriously considered or else an extra "partner" or two will have to join the TA/Brookfield team.

The one thing I still not fully "get" is why CW Capital is spending money on upgrading things that have been relatively upgraded, or which were new, already. Why do the Oval Essentials need to be "refreshed"? Or the store fronts along 1st Ave changed? Even that south western area of ST, in back of the leasing office, has been looking very nice these past years (as it's the main viewing area for potential renters), but now it's getting considerable work done to it. Perhaps CW thinks it's worthwhile just for the bragging rights of "brand new."

For one reason, so they can install a CAFE/COFFEE SHOP in Oval Lounge, according to a very reliable source.

CW Capital and Rose Management got so much sh-t (THANK YOU, STR!) for the noisy, air polluting, zoning-violating, commercial coffee/yogurt truck(s) they had on the Oval last year, that it seems they have now found a way around that pesky little problem. Or - who knows! - maybe they plan on having both and continuing to thumb their collective, snotty noses at the law and at tenants.

Anyone - especially the Building Department, which oversees the zoning regulations - who believes that any of these operations will ONLY be for the exclusive use of tenants and their guests and, thus, qualifies for "accessory use" is a willfuly ignorant fool.

>>For one reason, so they can install a CAFE/COFFEE SHOP in Oval Lounge, according to a very reliable source.<<

Hopefully a soda machine, too. Though perhaps that's going to go to Oval Study, where one finds students.

Don't forget we also have the mystery of what's going to go into the trunk rooms. I'm assuming vending machines, and perhaps a table or two with chairs where one relax and can get to know one's neighbors.

I think I may have once suggested, jokingly, a Starbucks at one of the Oval Essentials, so it's nice to see that become a bit of reality, if the rumor is true. Question is, how will the profits be made if Oval Lounge will remain open only for members. If the powers that be really want to crowd in the Lounge (which is considerably underused), they should open it up to everyone.

@anon 321 They covered the small patch of land outside my apartment with 3,734 cubic feet of multch. The mulch must be 4, 5 inches deep in some spots. Someone started screaming at the workers by mid afternoon because they themselves were out there screaming at eachother starting at 7:30 am. Then two women started screaming and everyone shut their windows and put their ACs on. Another peaceful day in Stuy Town.

With rents in Manhattan at all time highs, it makes sense for CW to renovate apartments (which they are doing throughout the complex) and to rent to students since they know that students are short-term tenants and even under rent stabilization they can get an extra boost in rent in the form of vacancy decontrol when a student tenant moves out. Then when the rent rolls have been jacked up sufficiently they will be able to sell the complex for a lot more than the TA and its advisers were talking about last year.

I don't think anyone is thinking this property will be bought on the cheap. If it happens to be sold to tenants that's great - but everything good (tenant ownership) comes with a price. What concerns me, as someone who would most likely buy - is how quiet the TA/Brookfield has been during this process lately. The communication with tenants has been subpar at best. A bid was supposed to be placed in April; now it appears it will be "sometime this summer." no explanation as to why, etc. Communication with tenants is essential, and it's frustrating to see how lackluster it has turned out to be.

One would think the politicians would want to do something to stop this nefarious gaming of the RS system. .>>Yes, one would think ... except that our politicians all sleep in the same Tammany bed with Bloomberg, Quinn and the RE cabal. The DHCR MUST know how the RS system is is being used and abused by these RE thugs and our corrupt politicians, but they are all part of the same gang. I have so totally lost faith in the honesty and integrity of politicians and the law enforcement of this city that I don't even want to go near a polling station ever again. Everything is so fixed and manipulated to benefit the few against the interests of the many.

"I don't think anyone is thinking this property will be bought on the cheap. If it happens to be sold to tenants that's great - but everything good (tenant ownership) comes with a price. What concerns me, as someone who would most likely buy - is how quiet the TA/Brookfield has been during this process lately. The communication with tenants has been subpar at best. A bid was supposed to be placed in April; now it appears it will be "sometime this summer." no explanation as to why, etc. Communication with tenants is essential, and it's frustrating to see how lackluster it has turned out to be."

Agreed, and well said. I think the silence on the part of Brookfield and the TA is pathetic. I get that it's a long, cumbersome, and in many ways an unprecedented undertaking, but how about some basic communication beyond the same inane droning that's been rehashed ad infinitum? As the prior poster mentioned, Blattman indicated that the bid would be submitted in April. I get that something could happen which may preclude that from happening but how about some communication? What's the status at any rate? Is he in communication with CW? How is that communication progressing? Also, if Brookfield was on the verge of a purchase, why would CW continue to rent apartments? Wouldn't Brookfield want as many apartments vacant as possible? It is becoming more and more difficult to stay positive regarding this conversion.

I want more information myself, and perhaps each of us should host our own apartment meeting. I may do that so I can find out more. I think all you do is ask the TA and invite your neighbors and voila. More info.

I think things are pretty crystal clear. Broofield and the TA, went all out to make a BID on a property not for sale. Not for sale TO US anyway. The landlord will most likely sell to a non tenant enterprise. That's how it goes in the RE world. They're all in bed together.

Now it's a bit embarrasing to B and TA, so there really is nothing for them to say to us. They'd just end up looking foolish again.

"I want more information myself, and perhaps each of us should host our own apartment meeting. I may do that so I can find out more. I think all you do is ask the TA and invite your neighbors and voila. More info."

You mean more propaganda! The TA has no info to give out. At this point they are nothing more or less than the sales department at Brookfield. They shot their load and now they're limp. Nothing left for them to do but crawl back under the rock they crawled out from. I'd say they should go back to being a TA but that ship has sailed too. Eventually a whole new tenants group will need to be formed.

Does Goradnick have anything to say about this, as he was one of the loudest cheerleaders for a TA/Brookfield condo conversion? He is probably too busy with his campaign to become Comptroller to concern himself with us anymore.

Not much physical plant upgrade taking place at PCV. In fact, it's going to the dogs, literally and figuratively. Dogs and their walkers own the grass and walkways at PCV, and it seems like there's more and more of them every day.

Could CW be planning to market ST and PCV separately? Would the properties command a higher sale price if sold as a single complex or two individual lots?

It's really quite embarrassing that no comments from either (TA or Brookfield) are being put out there. It never seemed to be a serious undertaking, in any case. It seemed like they were forcing themselves upon CWCapitol. Who probably never returned the call!

If the conversion does go through it will be interesting to see how brookfield will deal with this big dog toilet. How could they force dog owners to show decency and respect? Certainly under a condo scenario you couldn't have dog owners acting as they do now. Perhaps they could reverse the policy and grandfather in the existing dogs for the duration of their lives. I know, wishful thinking.

I for one am glad that Dan and the TA are doing what they're doing---what are we supposed to do, just throw up our hands and wait for another TS to swoop in? This is an unbelievably complex business deal --- anyone who's ever been involved in one knows how complicated they are and how long they can take.

Indeed, 8:04 is right. You don't just go around making public comments about the terms of the offer you'll be making on one of the most complex pieces of real estate in the country. It's extremely complicated--we have a GIANT Wall Street firm working for us who do deals that take YEARS. This is not a home mortgage situation.

"I for one am glad that Dan and the TA are doing what they're doing---what are we supposed to do, just throw up our hands and wait for another TS to swoop in? This is an unbelievably complex business deal --- anyone who's ever been involved in one knows how complicated they are and how long they can take."

An individual on the TA'S facebook page was asking the question of whether or not it remains the intention of Brookfield to submit a bid by the second quarter (actually it was April)to CW. After being ignored for a while she was informed that the question will be addressed on the TA/Brookfield web page whereby it was indicated that indeed the intention was to submit the bid during the "second quarter" of 2012, sometime during the summer. How exactly is the second quarter of 2012 sometime during the summer? It took tooth pulling to get this info. I'm not saying it's not complex, but why can't these people be more forthright?

"what are we supposed to do, just throw up our hands and wait for another TS to swoop in?"

I hate to tell you but Brookfield is the new TS. The conversion is just a way for them to quietly buy the place--with the tenant's support!

Since the deal probably won't be affordable for or accepted by most residents, they will end up with 75% of the apartments. And if you think that they will treat us any differently than any of our previous overlords then I have a bridge to sell you (STR, I am happy to split the take on the bridge sales with you. After all, fair is fair...)

The TA has a bad and ultimately inconsequential alliance with Brookfield. Many have been taken in by this for some reason. If Brookfield gets the nod deal (which I seriously doubt), you'll get the wake-up call when you see the price to buy your unit. Brookfield has been hedging around for one reason only....angling to maximize profit. Which they can do so long as they can limit buying to the levels they like. So they can sell all the rental apartments at market rate when they eventually vacate. An awful lot of people in this community really need to wake up.

Dan is such a wet lettuce himself and SO in the pockets of Management and the corrupt Bloomberg admin. I hope he isn't relying votes for his Comptroller aspirations from a lot of the tenants at ST. I will vote for ANYBODY but him! He is SO for sale to the highest bidder!

So, according to the article in T&V about the Greenmarket coming back to its regular location and not being moved to a legal location, Management has admitted that what they have been perpetrating on the Oval for the past 4 years was not an accessory use, after all, but an illegal commercial activity. They are nothing but conniving liars and cheats. They knew what they were doing was illegal, but did it anyway. As usual. And now they are being rewarded for their abominable, illegal behavior by saying, "Oops, sorry" and being allowed to stay in place. SHAME ON GARODNICK for betraying tenants who - rightly - objected to the presence of the Greenmarket in its illegal location. I, for one am hugely pissed off and disappointed, and will never vote for Garodnick again for anything.

In no way is the Greenmarket going to be for tenants and their guests only. EVERYONE KNOWS THAT, INCLUDING AND ESPECIALLY DAN GARODNICK. Because of the many HUGE signs Management has had on the perimeter of the property touting the presence of the Greenmarket, everyone in the neighborhood knows that it is here and that there will be no one - no Security - to stop them from coming in here to shop, just like no one stops them from coming in here to walk their dogs, attend concerts or any other activity. So, really, what's next, a Walmart? If that's just for the use of tenants and guests, is that OK, too? Stay tuned for the next marketing trick that Adam Rose of Rose Management and Andrew MacArthur of CW Capital have up their sleeve, especially now that they were able to pull off this fast one.

I am so totally on board with what Anony 7.58 AM and Anoy 11.30 AM said. Also, let’s see if CW Capital will set up a barricade so that interns will check the Greenmarket customers for their building ID’s. No wonder everyone hates politicians. I am going to vote, for Mayor, the current Mayor of 14th Street, Ramon! At least, when he hits me for a dollar, you know it’s going for a good cause. “Hey Joe, give me dollar, my mother, she sick!” Meanwhile, I am going to open a Klingon restaurant in my apartment. It will be open only for “residents and their guests”.

Did you see the ugly "Dust Bowl" where the "Green market" is again to be?A regular dog walk loaded with you know what in front of Playground 12. Hope that they don't put their greens on the trais organic ground.Maybe green cement would be an answer to the problem?Look the other way, Rose, and problems go away!

Seems like a lot of complaining regarding the grounds. I thought the ice rink this past winter was nice. It's nice to see older people walking about with their dogs, many first time owners. It seems with fencing going up around the SW portion, they are returning to the old chain links of yesteryear. When your about to complain, remember you were once young too! Please things are not that bad.

I"m with 8:33, I don't see how all this negativity is helping anything. We do need to be vigilant about the threat to our affordability, but you are all overly romanticizing the Stuytown of yore. It was a real dump there for a while and bordering on scary to walk through (when I lived nearby), dreary, run-down. I don't mind a bit of improvements as long as the LL follows the law. And I haven't seen anything to lead me to believe that Dan, a fellow resident with parents who live here as well, is some kind of traitor. I like the farmers market and the dogs and (some) of the younger people. I don't like some of the older grumpy people as much as I don't like some of the students.

I don't think people are over-romanticizing Stuy Town as it used to be under MetLife, aside from the usual patina of nostalgia that sets in to any memory. It was only a "real dump" when Tishman Speyer gave up on the property.

In mid-late 90s, it was a dump. Dreary, lots of muggings, people who had seen better days/times, marginal residents. Or at least from my passerby view when I'd walk through and from what I heard. It does seem nicer now, albeit, potentially too student-filled, but that is a relatively new tactic.

I absolutely agree about the place having gone downhill since Tishman-Speyer. Some of the landscaping decisions were really bad. All the attempts to have grass by laying down expensive sod failed. Now the grassy areas are patchy at best, filled with weeds or completely barren. Allowing dogs was a terrible decision. Originally, the rule was no dogs on the grass and no dogs over knee-high. Now there are dogs of all sizes and the very first place their owners take them is straight onto the grass where they do their do-dahs. So long as this keeps happening, the grass will always look bad. No amount of chemical lawn maintenance can change that. All I can say is that if this place goes condo, you're going to see a lot more of the same. There is no ability to enforce QOL standards under a condo arrangement. Under co-op rules you at least have some fighting chance.

Whatever was good about Stuy Town is long gone and will never be restored. It wasn't a dump in the 90s or any other time. It became a dump when Met Life sold it. What happened was criminal but real-estate people never have to own up to anything. They can and will do what they want and then when they're overwhelmed they can walk away. Garodnick is a two-faced weasel. He's out for himself and his personal greedy goals. "For residents and their guests" is bs. Look at the grounds. Look at the laundry rooms and carriage rooms. It's a horror.

I've been here since 1980 and I assure you that Stuyvesant Town was never a dump until TS took over. The neighboring area was a dump, filled with drugs and lowlifes, but Stuyvesant Town was NOT part of that. In fact, it stood out as being most definitely NOT part of that. The "marginal" people you speak of probably did not live here because Management had certain standards for who they allowed to live here. You had to be a gainfully employed person with good credit record and the inspected the place you were leaving to see what kind of tenant you would be.Also, since I first moved in (September 1980) Ramon has been hitting me up on a regular basis and his grandmother has died no end of times! LOL! He's a harmless pest left over from the old 'hood that bordered the development.

I have to say that I do as well. They really add a wonderful character to the community. I also think that most of their owners do the right thing and clean up appropriately.

Some don't and they are the problem. They should be singled out and not the responsible owners. Most long time tenants know that there were secret dogs here for many years and there were no problem. Reason being their caretakers were appropriately careful.

My problem with dog owners beyond the pooh and pee issues is the noise the dog walkers make. Not the dogs but the dog walkers. They have no problem holding a 20 to 30 minute conversation about their little pooches right outside another tenants window. They bloviate for hours without any regard to the time of day or night or any consideration that there may be someone trying to sleep behind that window that is 5 feet away. I think management needs to stop this or buy air conditioners for all tenants on the ground floors and upgrade their apartments at the owners expense.

You really hate your fellow neighbors, don't you? It must be awful to leave your apartment and encounter the rest of us in the elevator and using your oval. I think the word misanthrope would apply here.

"Dogs are all over this city, what are you talking about? You sound very silly."

Since I have no reason to doubt you are a person of at least average intelligence, you must be relatively new here. Complaining about dogs at sty town would indeed be silly as there are in fact dogs all over the city. However, there was a time in the not so distant past that this wasn't the case. This was a quiet place, free from the barking, piss, and crap. This is the source of all the dog consternation. To the extent that this was the case I fail to see the relevance of your statement. Now, tell me "tough shit", or "deal with it", or "I don't really give a shit about your quality of life" and I could understand. I wouldn't expect anything more, but to say that dogs are all over the city and i sound silly because of that fact is simply inane.

We lost our DHCR credit, no scintilla of communication has been made about the purchase, and again our inflated market (or even over market in some cases) rents are being used to renovate the just renovated areas of Stuytown while things like Laundry rooms and playgrounds lie in waste.

The longer this process takes, the stronger the NYC real estate market becomes, the more likely a big player would come in and scoop up the parcel for another round of insane rent hikes. If that happens, for me, it is BYE BYE to Stuytown. I knew ye well...

Hall of Shame Award to CWCapital from Stuy Town And Peter Cooper Village Tenants

Awarded for the Roberts Settlement Massacre, in which many tenants received mid-lease rent increases from hundreds to over a thousand dollars, compelling tenants to examine the need to move out with their families at short notice. Doubly awarded for the Oval Park Massacre, in which healthy trees were cut down and plantings viciously uprooted to make way for an institutionalized look of order.

Thinking of Renting in PCVST?

Read Yelp reviews to find out what it's like living here. Please note: As of May 16, there is a suspicius intrusion of what appear to be positive reviews appearing on the PCVST Yelp page that are sourced from a "rewards program" set up by the landlord.

The Other Yelp Reviews

Yelp can be tricky and bounce reviews for a variety of reasons, like being a member and posting just one review. Very often, however, these reviews hold important truths about what's being reviewed. READ THESE TOO.

Banned Dog Breeds in Stuy Town

Cute rottweiler. But... looks like there is some difficulty in enforcing the ban on certain dog breeds allowed inside Stuy Town/Peter Cooper Village. Somehow pitbulls and pitbull mixes have been registered in STPCV and are allowed to be freely walked about the grounds! Another fail of enforcing the rules around here? You decide!

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Stuyvesant Town Newsreel

Read it and Weep

Current Value of ST/PCV

Was 5.4 Billion Dollars when Tishman Speyer bought the place.Became 1.7 Billion Dollars when Tishman Speyer left, with their tail between their legs.Current estimate? Over 2 Billion?

Ex-landlord

Rob Speyer

1947 Stuy Town Plaque Honoring Met Life Chairman F.H. Ecker (Removed in 2002 and never seen again)

"... who with the vision of experience and the energy of youth conceived and brought into being this project, and others like it, that families of moderate means might live in health, comfort and dignity in park-like communities and that a pattern might be set of private enterprise productively devoted to public service."

Co-op/Condo Conversions

Non-Eviction Conversion:
Requires commitment from purchasers for 15% of the apartments. Both rent regulated and market rate tenants are given the opportunity to purchase. Rent regulated tenants cannot be evicted because they choose not to buy. However, the owner is not required to offer a lease renewal to market-rate tenants.
Eviction Conversion:
Requires written commitment from 51% of the tenants in occupancy. All tenants are given the opportunity to purchase. Those who choose not to can be evicted. For rent stabilized tenants who choose not to purchase, they can be evicted within 3 years after the plan is declared effective. However, rent stabilized tenants who are disabled or senior citizens are exempt from eviction. Market rate tenants can be evicted at the end of their lease. Less likely conversion tactic. [The TA insists that any plan they support will be non-eviction.]

I am writing on behalf of everyone at Tishman Speyer to express how honored we are to become part of your outstanding community. We are a business with deep roots in New York, a true love of our city and a great respect for the neighborhoods that make it special. We are committed to maintaining the unique character and environment that have made Peter Cooper Village and Stuyvesant Town such a wonderful place to live for so long. We look forward to providing you an extraordinary level of service and attentiveness that will be the source of pride and satisfaction for the entire community.

Neighborhood Recommendations

New to Stuy Town/Peter Cooper Village? Here are some basic recommendations.

Best supermarket: Associated on 14th St. between 1st Ave. and Ave A. The cheapest prices, fantastic weekly sales, very affordable lunches; solid, responsive management. Some of the young female cashiers have attitude to spare, though. May be too far for Peter Cooper residents.

Best deli: A Stuy Town favorite is Lenz's on 20 St. between the 20 St. Loop. The way New York used to be. Be careful of unwanted "pepper" in your food, however. Lenz's has a B grade rating and was temporarily closed down due to an order from the Health Department. Bruno's on First Avenue is more upscale, with a greater selection of food items (higher-priced, too), but was closed down by the Health Department in June.

Best post office: Forget it! The post office on 14th St. is generally a nightmare, with long lines and, now, even shorter hours.

Disappointments:

The Stuy Town Starbucks on First Ave. is not very cozy, and the music in the morning is too loud and uptempo. Gently awaken the souls off to work....

More recommendations to come!

Macular Degeneration Support Group

If you are currently diagnosed with Macular Degeneration, the New York Eye & Ear Infirmary is offering a support group for you. Conveniently located next to the Peter Cooper Village Stuyvesant Town apartment complex, our group offers the opportunity to share stories with other members, listen to expert guest speakers, and learn coping strategies to reduce stress. Our group runs on the first Wednesday of every month and we would enjoy seeing you there.
Please contact Baptiste Nicolas, Social Work Assistant at 212-979-4105 for further information and to see if this group is right for you!