Yeah, I've had that one for years. Used to be my only card, before the others started offering $100+ cash back and 0% interest into the next century. At a rough guess, I imagine that counting cash back and interest/dividends on the "float", I've made a couple of thousand bucks off them. Maybe not exactly freedom, but better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick :-)

I too have this card. 0 balance. Perhaps my contract is different, or I'm unaware because I've gotten any cash or points that I'm aware of. I'll call up and see how much freedom I have from previous purchases.

So if you were just pointing out that it's a bit of a silly name: fine, I suppose you could think that. Not sure I'd agree though, I am free from having to carry cash, keeping a pocket full of change, having to make notes to track spending, etc. The cash back is nice but doesn't necessarily add to "freedom." FYI, my Freedom card gives 1% cash back on everything, 5% on whatever the rotating category is this season.

I think the point is still valid though. I have been responsible with my credit cards my entire life, long before I had ever heard of MMM. There is nothing unmustachian about credit cards, just about being irresponsible with them. That's all on the individual, not the credit card company. Anti-credit-card-ism is one of the major beefs I have with Dave Ramsey, among others.

So if you were just pointing out that it's a bit of a silly name: fine, I suppose you could think that. Not sure I'd agree though, I am free from having to carry cash, keeping a pocket full of change, having to make notes to track spending, etc. The cash back is nice but doesn't necessarily add to "freedom." FYI, my Freedom card gives 1% cash back on everything, 5% on whatever the rotating category is this season.

I think the point is still valid though. I have been responsible with my credit cards my entire life, long before I had ever heard of MMM. There is nothing unmustachian about credit cards, just about being irresponsible with them. That's all on the individual, not the credit card company. Anti-credit-card-ism is one of the major beefs I have with Dave Ramsey, among others.

I'm not anti-credit card, but I am anti-Chase. They are engaged in all sorts of unethical business practices, including many that are blatantly fraudulent and illegal, (see: $13bn fine they're paying). So I won't do business with them, even if their card offers good rewards.

So if you were just pointing out that it's a bit of a silly name: fine, I suppose you could think that. Not sure I'd agree though, I am free from having to carry cash, keeping a pocket full of change, having to make notes to track spending, etc. The cash back is nice but doesn't necessarily add to "freedom." FYI, my Freedom card gives 1% cash back on everything, 5% on whatever the rotating category is this season.

I think the point is still valid though. I have been responsible with my credit cards my entire life, long before I had ever heard of MMM. There is nothing unmustachian about credit cards, just about being irresponsible with them. That's all on the individual, not the credit card company. Anti-credit-card-ism is one of the major beefs I have with Dave Ramsey, among others.

Yes, I was poking fun at the name. The average consumer can not control their spending, a "freedom" card exploits that. To them they are 'free' to buy things! Despite all that debt, to which they scrape together a monthly payment to mange, they still hold on to their 'freedom' card. A comedy and tragedy all in one.

I'm not anti-credit card, but I am anti-Chase. They are engaged in all sorts of unethical business practices, including many that are blatantly fraudulent and illegal, (see: $13bn fine they're paying). So I won't do business with them, even if their card offers good rewards.

I won't do business with Chase either. Back in the days when I lived in poverty, Chase bought my neighborhood bank and then they started playing games with my checking account such as altering the order and timing of transaction processing in an attempt to make me overdraw my account. I lost a lot of money, because I was living on the razor's edge at that time since my pay was so low and any small mistake would snowball into a loss of hundreds of dollars.

Now I am much wealthier, but Chase doesn't see a nickel of my hard-earned cash.

I'm not anti-credit card, but I am anti-Chase. They are engaged in all sorts of unethical business practices, including many that are blatantly fraudulent and illegal, (see: $13bn fine they're paying). So I won't do business with them, even if their card offers good rewards.

Why? If you feel that way about them, why wouldn't you want to take some of their ill-gotten gains away by having their card, getting rewards, and paying it off in full every month so they lose money on you?

I'm not anti-credit card, but I am anti-Chase. They are engaged in all sorts of unethical business practices, including many that are blatantly fraudulent and illegal, (see: $13bn fine they're paying). So I won't do business with them, even if their card offers good rewards.

Why? If you feel that way about them, why wouldn't you want to take some of their ill-gotten gains away by having their card, getting rewards, and paying it off in full every month so they lose money on you?

I don't believe that they will lose money on me. They won't profit very much, but they make more on the interchange fees than they spend on rewards. Plus, I just don't like them. And part of building wealth is so that I only have to interact with people and firms who I like and choose to interact with.

I'm not anti-credit card, but I am anti-Chase. They are engaged in all sorts of unethical business practices, including many that are blatantly fraudulent and illegal, (see: $13bn fine they're paying). So I won't do business with them, even if their card offers good rewards.

Why? If you feel that way about them, why wouldn't you want to take some of their ill-gotten gains away by having their card, getting rewards, and paying it off in full every month so they lose money on you?

You think these banks are losing money on rewards CCs? I can't see how that would happen. They make a set fee plus a % on every transaction. They just refund a portion of that % for your rewards in attempt for them to make much bigger money by you charging too much and carrying a balance.

You think these banks are losing money on rewards CCs? I can't see how that would happen. They make a set fee plus a % on every transaction.

Yes, and that has to pay for all their marketing expenses, operating expenses, things like the cost of borrowing the money that I'm getting charged %0 interest on. I don't know that they lose money on me, but I would bet they do. They sure aren't making 18% or more on my outstanding balance :-)

I'm not anti-credit card, but I am anti-Chase. They are engaged in all sorts of unethical business practices, including many that are blatantly fraudulent and illegal, (see: $13bn fine they're paying). So I won't do business with them, even if their card offers good rewards.

Why? If you feel that way about them, why wouldn't you want to take some of their ill-gotten gains away by having their card, getting rewards, and paying it off in full every month so they lose money on you?

You think these banks are losing money on rewards CCs? I can't see how that would happen. They make a set fee plus a % on every transaction. They just refund a portion of that % for your rewards in attempt for them to make much bigger money by you charging too much and carrying a balance.

Yeah, credit card companies make the bulk of their money from interchange (swipe) fees that they charge merchants, so if you pay in full every month, they won't have a problem with you as long as their product gets used. I use my rewards credit cards for every purchase I can -- as long as there is no surcharge for using them. One of the banks just lowered my interest rate to the lowest they offer, because they are pleased with how much profit they are getting from my usage. My spending is not high by any means (Mustachian), but it seems like a lot to them because I do it all using the cards.

You think these banks are losing money on rewards CCs? I can't see how that would happen. They make a set fee plus a % on every transaction. They just refund a portion of that % for your rewards in attempt for them to make much bigger money by you charging too much and carrying a balance.

Yeah, I agree. Even though I never pay any interest myself (well, once for a two-month period, but that was an oddity), they still make money off me. How? Merchant fees.

You think these banks are losing money on rewards CCs? I can't see how that would happen. They make a set fee plus a % on every transaction. They just refund a portion of that % for your rewards in attempt for them to make much bigger money by you charging too much and carrying a balance.

Yeah, I agree. Even though I never pay any interest myself (well, once for a two-month period, but that was an oddity), they still make money off me. How? Merchant fees.

No, no business stays in business by giving away money.

I have the card too. I'm pretty sure if they didn't make money off my use, they'd close the account

I have the card too. I'm pretty sure if they didn't make money off my use, they'd close the account

Well, we'll see. I have a good test case running. Signed up for their Slate card, which offers (or did a couple of months ago) no-fee balance transfers, and 0% interest to the end of 2014. So I transferred a balance of about $3500 from the BofA card that was nearing the end of its 0% introductory period. Since the Slate card doesn't offer any cash back, I'm unlikely to buy anything on it, I'll just make a small monthly payment, then pay everything off just before the 0% period ends.

Now I can't see how they are going to be making any money off that, can you? So we'll see if they send me any nasty emails saying "Use the card, or else!".

I have the card too. I'm pretty sure if they didn't make money off my use, they'd close the account

Well, we'll see. I have a good test case running. Signed up for their Slate card, which offers (or did a couple of months ago) no-fee balance transfers, and 0% interest to the end of 2014. So I transferred a balance of about $3500 from the BofA card that was nearing the end of its 0% introductory period. Since the Slate card doesn't offer any cash back, I'm unlikely to buy anything on it, I'll just make a small monthly payment, then pay everything off just before the 0% period ends.

Now I can't see how they are going to be making any money off that, can you? So we'll see if they send me any nasty emails saying "Use the card, or else!".

There's a reason the 0% period expires. They don't know in advance that you'll be unprofitable, but by the end of 2014, they will, and they'll dump you, or at least make it impossible for you to continue being unprofitable.

I have the card too. I'm pretty sure if they didn't make money off my use, they'd close the account

Well, we'll see. I have a good test case running. Signed up for their Slate card, which offers (or did a couple of months ago) no-fee balance transfers, and 0% interest to the end of 2014. So I transferred a balance of about $3500 from the BofA card that was nearing the end of its 0% introductory period. Since the Slate card doesn't offer any cash back, I'm unlikely to buy anything on it, I'll just make a small monthly payment, then pay everything off just before the 0% period ends.

Now I can't see how they are going to be making any money off that, can you? So we'll see if they send me any nasty emails saying "Use the card, or else!".

There's a reason the 0% period expires. They don't know in advance that you'll be unprofitable, but by the end of 2014, they will, and they'll dump you, or at least make it impossible for you to continue being unprofitable.

I've had accounts closed for inactivity. Luckily in this age age if electronic statements it costs them very little to keep an account open. The biggest problem is the potential liability on their books that could be better allocated with another customer. Usually it takes a few years of inactivity before anything happen as. First I start getting a lot of balance transfer checks.

I'm not anti-credit card, but I am anti-Chase. They are engaged in all sorts of unethical business practices, including many that are blatantly fraudulent and illegal, (see: $13bn fine they're paying). So I won't do business with them, even if their card offers good rewards.

Why? If you feel that way about them, why wouldn't you want to take some of their ill-gotten gains away by having their card, getting rewards, and paying it off in full every month so they lose money on you?

You think these banks are losing money on rewards CCs? I can't see how that would happen. They make a set fee plus a % on every transaction. They just refund a portion of that % for your rewards in attempt for them to make much bigger money by you charging too much and carrying a balance.

It is certainly possible for banks to lose money on rewards CCs. I hate Bank of America so I stick it to them at every opportunity by signing up for a new card, pocketing the $100 or whatever sign on bonus, and promptly never using the card again.

Rewards credit cards can totally be more of a liability to the issuer than an asset, and I know exactly what happens when they are. My first rewards credit card from several years ago was the Geico Mastercard. 3% cash back on gas, 1% on everything else, and it automatically got posted to my account as a statement credit ("gecko rewards" they called it).

During the credit crunch in 2009, they cut my credit limit really low to $2k. At the time I wasn't being too Mustachian and my monthly spending would regularly top that, so now I had to juggle several cards. A few months later, they amended my cardholder agreement to impose an annual fee. I called and canceled the card to avoid the fee; I have no doubt that was exactly what they were hoping I was going to do. That was a situation where I must have been costing them more money than they were making.