what?!?! he is absolutely solid.. I can only remember one previous injury during last season.. currently he had/has back problems 'nothing else' it's not like he dies after each harsher contact like Ronaldo or Owen..

Oriello wrote:The stamina I disagree with, but as for Injury Tolernance I think that a C could be considered, he experinces a whole variety of minor knocks that force him out during a season regulrily. I am not 100% behind giving him a C as he is not that type of player outright, but at the same time a B seems generous.

Perhaps maybe this problem could be addressed through his conditioning, which is at 7, yet the 04/05 season is when he last played the requiste number of matches for such a rating, 54. I think he has proven over the last few seasons that he is no longer physically able to keep up to the demands of such heavy scheduling, as hinted by his retirement from the national team.

I used ESPN(which includes Italy app.) and AC Milan's offical website and here are the numbers;

07/08= 29(1 substitute) Serie A, 7 Champions League, 3 "Other"(AC Milan website, but he only played the 2 games in the FIFA Cub World Cup!); 39(38!?) Total.

So while Nesta was worthy of a 8 in 04/05 and a 7 in 05/06, in the past two season with his retirment from international football I would say that a 6 in conditioing would be sufficent, with him retaining his Injury Tolerance B. To put this in a bit more perspective Del Piero with Injury Tolerance B played in 47 mathces last season and was just recently raised to a 6.

I respect Oriello's opinions and everyone knows that.. but honestly, if you play some serious football (PES 5 or 6) a player with injury tolerance C will seriously get injured Owen-style-a-lot.. and Nesta surely isn't this case..

as for the last season's lower amount of matches.. I think it was due to that injury I mentioned.. now I am not sure if it was previous or even more previous season.. but I guess it was the last because that injury was again pretty lengthy so it took away a good chunk of his games away.. but still that was one serious injury.. now he has back problems.. it's not like Owen who gets touched and is injured for two weeks.. rinse and repeat.. Nesta walked through much more serious attacks on his person..

Wow my thoughts made it onto the board even while I was on an extended Holiday...eeire. Thanks Pazza for digging up that post.

I ultimately did not think Injury C to be justified to Nesta, but my solution was Conditioning 6 to create a sort of "Injury C.5", and my suggestion for a lower Condtion is backed up the appearance record with Nesta not making more than 30 Appearances in all competions club and Internationals for over three seasons.

That is part of the reason why he retired from the National team was due to his body no longer being able to take all the heavy schedeuling, and he could only concentrate on club football. I think a decrease to Condition 6 is a good compromise to replicate Nesta's problems of being a mainstay for a season, as he may not be glass like Robben but he is surely worse than an average B player for a few seasons now and some stat needs to reflect this a bit.

I must be clear that I was onyl nudging S-J23 about a potential Injury C as he disapproved above, I too do think it too early and B is fine for now, but if he does continue like this then in a years time definately, as he is just missing too many games for too long now to ignore it. But that would be later not now, hopefully Nesta will improve.

As for the Injury applying only to on field incidents I think it applies in general, if a player is continually having so many problems like Andrade where he even reaggrevates an injury or picks up a new one in training I think it is valid, as if a player is so susceptable that he gets injured outside the rigours of a real match then that should be refelected. Note an incident like Klasnic with his Kidney problems I do not think it should affect Injury, that is unrelated football matter, unless defenders were repeatedly punching him in the kidnies or something, otherwise back problems , obviously any muscualr problems always lead back to being a professional footballer and 'occupational hazards', so those all count for me even if off the field. And if a player breaks his leg rockclimbing in his spare time for me that would not be something I would consider into what Injury Tolerenace to give him.

I was also nudging/bumping my Conditioni 6 into the spotlight again as it seems to have been allowed to collect a layer of dust, I know jmg721 frowns on these 'bump sessions' (XD a crack reference) anyways I want S-j23 to give an approval or denial as the update rests on his input.

Oriello wrote:I too do think it too early and B is fine for now, but if he does continue like this then in a years time definately, as he is just missing too many games for too long now to ignore it. But that would be later not now, hopefully Nesta will improve.

mate, according to ESPN, he played zero match this year, 28/38 last yeas and 14/38 two seasons ago...In my OF I already give a C in PES2008, Chivu has a C because he is always injured, but Nesta too. He is not Classic Nesta anymore, I always love this player (IMO he was the most complete defender in last years) but now he is too fragile