Billy, it wasn't about caving. He was the 2nd best WR on the team, and we didn't promote him properly. Even after Nate got hurt the guy STILL didn't get his due. That's flat out ridiculous. Hell... Even as a talented #3 he didn't get as many targets as he should have.

Billy, it wasn't about caving. He was the 2nd best WR on the team, and we didn't promote him properly. Even after Nate got hurt the guy STILL didn't get his due. That's flat out ridiculous. Hell... Even as a talented #3 he didn't get as many targets as he should have.

My heart just breaks for him. He is so under appreciated. I sure hate it for him. He should show everyone how much of an A-hole he is because of it. Oh, that's right he did. So, it's our turn to show him that we can be A-holes also.

January 25th, 2013, 1:35 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Off-Season Moves

BillySims wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

Billy, it wasn't about caving. He was the 2nd best WR on the team, and we didn't promote him properly. Even after Nate got hurt the guy STILL didn't get his due. That's flat out ridiculous. Hell... Even as a talented #3 he didn't get as many targets as he should have.

My heart just breaks for him. He is so under appreciated. I sure hate it for him. He should show everyone how much of an A-hole he is because of it. Oh, that's right he did. So, it's our turn to show him that we can be A-holes also.

And hurt the team, not leave the drama in the past, and let him continue to effect the locker-room in the process... BRILLIANT!!!

Billy, it wasn't about caving. He was the 2nd best WR on the team, and we didn't promote him properly. Even after Nate got hurt the guy STILL didn't get his due. That's flat out ridiculous. Hell... Even as a talented #3 he didn't get as many targets as he should have.

My heart just breaks for him. He is so under appreciated. I sure hate it for him. He should show everyone how much of an A-hole he is because of it. Oh, that's right he did. So, it's our turn to show him that we can be A-holes also.

And hurt the team, not leave the drama in the past, and let him continue to effect the locker-room in the process... BRILLIANT!!!

If he is suspended, the only contact with the locker room he can have is through the media. And seriously, you are going to sit there and say that he would affect the locker room? When virtually every player on the team denounced him and said they were through with him last season? He wouldn't cause a single ripple in the locker room.

His targets may not be the Lions fault. Maybe Stafford doesn't like him and that's why he's not getting the ball or Stafford may just not be going through his reads completely before he gets the ball out. Linehan obviously wanted him on the field or the Jefferson thing would have never happened. There has never been a teammate that has stuck up for the kid and I doubt there ever will be. He looks to have alienated himself from the team and that could be the biggest reason he was underused. If he's the second best receiver on the team then he should act like it and not throw a tantrum like a toddler.

January 25th, 2013, 1:42 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Off-Season Moves

rao wrote:

His targets may not be the Lions fault. Maybe Stafford doesn't like him and that's why he's not getting the ball or Stafford may just not be going through his reads completely before he gets the ball out. Linehan obviously wanted him on the field or the Jefferson thing would have never happened. There has never been a teammate that has stuck up for the kid and I doubt there ever will be. He looks to have alienated himself from the team and that could be the biggest reason he was underused. If he's the second best receiver on the team then he should act like it and not throw a tantrum like a toddler.

If Stafford wasn't throwing to him for some personal vendetta, that's a whole nother issue, and should have been corrected. The bottom line is none of the players really seem to respect their coaches. The coach calls the plays, and the player executes them, period. If they're not going to listen, bench him. Maybe that's why this team arguably played BETTER under Shaun Hill?

His targets may not be the Lions fault. Maybe Stafford doesn't like him and that's why he's not getting the ball or Stafford may just not be going through his reads completely before he gets the ball out. Linehan obviously wanted him on the field or the Jefferson thing would have never happened. There has never been a teammate that has stuck up for the kid and I doubt there ever will be. He looks to have alienated himself from the team and that could be the biggest reason he was underused. If he's the second best receiver on the team then he should act like it and not throw a tantrum like a toddler.

If Stafford wasn't throwing to him for some personal vendetta, that's a whole nother issue, and should have been corrected. The bottom line is none of the players really seem to respect their coaches. The coach calls the plays, and the player executes them, period. If they're not going to listen, bench him. Maybe that's why this team arguably played BETTER under Shaun Hill?

Quote:

If they're not going to listen, bench him.

Excuse me! Isn't the fact that they DID bench him, what you have been arguing about in 2 different threads.

January 25th, 2013, 1:51 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Off-Season Moves

BillySims wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

rao wrote:

His targets may not be the Lions fault. Maybe Stafford doesn't like him and that's why he's not getting the ball or Stafford may just not be going through his reads completely before he gets the ball out. Linehan obviously wanted him on the field or the Jefferson thing would have never happened. There has never been a teammate that has stuck up for the kid and I doubt there ever will be. He looks to have alienated himself from the team and that could be the biggest reason he was underused. If he's the second best receiver on the team then he should act like it and not throw a tantrum like a toddler.

If Stafford wasn't throwing to him for some personal vendetta, that's a whole nother issue, and should have been corrected. The bottom line is none of the players really seem to respect their coaches. The coach calls the plays, and the player executes them, period. If they're not going to listen, bench him. Maybe that's why this team arguably played BETTER under Shaun Hill?

Quote:

If they're not going to listen, bench him.

Excuse me! Isn't the fact that they DID bench him, what you have been arguing about in 2 different threads.

His targets may not be the Lions fault. Maybe Stafford doesn't like him and that's why he's not getting the ball or Stafford may just not be going through his reads completely before he gets the ball out. Linehan obviously wanted him on the field or the Jefferson thing would have never happened. There has never been a teammate that has stuck up for the kid and I doubt there ever will be. He looks to have alienated himself from the team and that could be the biggest reason he was underused. If he's the second best receiver on the team then he should act like it and not throw a tantrum like a toddler.

If Stafford wasn't throwing to him for some personal vendetta, that's a whole nother issue, and should have been corrected. The bottom line is none of the players really seem to respect their coaches. The coach calls the plays, and the player executes them, period. If they're not going to listen, bench him. Maybe that's why this team arguably played BETTER under Shaun Hill?

I'm not really saying Stafford did it as a vendetta, but if they weren't getting along he may not have felt comfortable throwing to him. He may not have felt familiar enough with the timing and shied away unless he was wide open. The only player you can say for certain doesn't respect his coaches is TY and it seems to me if he feels slighted by anyone he caused it all by himself.

January 25th, 2013, 1:58 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Off-Season Moves

rao wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

rao wrote:

His targets may not be the Lions fault. Maybe Stafford doesn't like him and that's why he's not getting the ball or Stafford may just not be going through his reads completely before he gets the ball out. Linehan obviously wanted him on the field or the Jefferson thing would have never happened. There has never been a teammate that has stuck up for the kid and I doubt there ever will be. He looks to have alienated himself from the team and that could be the biggest reason he was underused. If he's the second best receiver on the team then he should act like it and not throw a tantrum like a toddler.

If Stafford wasn't throwing to him for some personal vendetta, that's a whole nother issue, and should have been corrected. The bottom line is none of the players really seem to respect their coaches. The coach calls the plays, and the player executes them, period. If they're not going to listen, bench him. Maybe that's why this team arguably played BETTER under Shaun Hill?

I'm not really saying Stafford did it as a vendetta, but if they weren't getting along he may not have felt comfortable throwing to him. He may not have felt familiar enough with the timing and shied away unless he was wide open. The only player you can say for certain doesn't respect his coaches is TY and it seems to me if he feels slighted by anyone he caused it all by himself.

That makes more sense, and I can see where you're coming from there. I just think Nate did less with more opportunities all year (and the year before). Compare their game logs outside of week 1:

It's even worse if you go back to 2011. Titus outperformed Nate so bad when you take into account the number of targets, it's sick. Titus' first game he had 89 yards and averaged 17 yards per catch. He had twice as many TDs with less opportunities. And regardless of the Delmas punch, he should have gone into 2012 as the #2 WR.

His targets may not be the Lions fault. Maybe Stafford doesn't like him and that's why he's not getting the ball or Stafford may just not be going through his reads completely before he gets the ball out. Linehan obviously wanted him on the field or the Jefferson thing would have never happened. There has never been a teammate that has stuck up for the kid and I doubt there ever will be. He looks to have alienated himself from the team and that could be the biggest reason he was underused. If he's the second best receiver on the team then he should act like it and not throw a tantrum like a toddler.

If Stafford wasn't throwing to him for some personal vendetta, that's a whole nother issue, and should have been corrected. The bottom line is none of the players really seem to respect their coaches. The coach calls the plays, and the player executes them, period. If they're not going to listen, bench him. Maybe that's why this team arguably played BETTER under Shaun Hill?

I'm not really saying Stafford did it as a vendetta, but if they weren't getting along he may not have felt comfortable throwing to him. He may not have felt familiar enough with the timing and shied away unless he was wide open. The only player you can say for certain doesn't respect his coaches is TY and it seems to me if he feels slighted by anyone he caused it all by himself.

That makes more sense, and I can see where you're coming from there. I just think Nate did less with more opportunities all year (and the year before). Compare their game logs outside of week 1:

It's even worse if you go back to 2011. Titus outperformed Nate so bad when you take into account the number of targets, it's sick. Titus' first game he had 89 yards and averaged 17 yards per catch. He had twice as many TDs with less opportunities. And regardless of the Delmas punch, he should have gone into 2012 as the #2 WR.

I agree he is better than Nate, but as much as you want to just put the best guys out there you can't if the player is being disrespectful of the coaching staff. I don't like the coaches anymore than you do at this point, but you gotta agree that promoting a player that doesn't respect the coaches or the other players for that matter is sending the wrong message. It really all depends on what was going on with him before the blow up and IMO there had to be things going on all season for it to get as bad as it has. We will never really find out who was truly at fault, but I feel that blaming the Lions is the same as saying it was Harbaugh's fault for Schwarts overreaction to the handshake.

The worst part of this is that TY has become untradable.

January 25th, 2013, 3:57 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Off-Season Moves

rao wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

rao wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

rao wrote:

His targets may not be the Lions fault. Maybe Stafford doesn't like him and that's why he's not getting the ball or Stafford may just not be going through his reads completely before he gets the ball out. Linehan obviously wanted him on the field or the Jefferson thing would have never happened. There has never been a teammate that has stuck up for the kid and I doubt there ever will be. He looks to have alienated himself from the team and that could be the biggest reason he was underused. If he's the second best receiver on the team then he should act like it and not throw a tantrum like a toddler.

If Stafford wasn't throwing to him for some personal vendetta, that's a whole nother issue, and should have been corrected. The bottom line is none of the players really seem to respect their coaches. The coach calls the plays, and the player executes them, period. If they're not going to listen, bench him. Maybe that's why this team arguably played BETTER under Shaun Hill?

I'm not really saying Stafford did it as a vendetta, but if they weren't getting along he may not have felt comfortable throwing to him. He may not have felt familiar enough with the timing and shied away unless he was wide open. The only player you can say for certain doesn't respect his coaches is TY and it seems to me if he feels slighted by anyone he caused it all by himself.

That makes more sense, and I can see where you're coming from there. I just think Nate did less with more opportunities all year (and the year before). Compare their game logs outside of week 1:

It's even worse if you go back to 2011. Titus outperformed Nate so bad when you take into account the number of targets, it's sick. Titus' first game he had 89 yards and averaged 17 yards per catch. He had twice as many TDs with less opportunities. And regardless of the Delmas punch, he should have gone into 2012 as the #2 WR.

I agree he is better than Nate, but as much as you want to just put the best guys out there you can't if the player is being disrespectful of the coaching staff. I don't like the coaches anymore than you do at this point, but you gotta agree that promoting a player that doesn't respect the coaches or the other players for that matter is sending the wrong message. It really all depends on what was going on with him before the blow up and IMO there had to be things going on all season for it to get as bad as it has. We will never really find out who was truly at fault, but I feel that blaming the Lions is the same as saying it was Harbaugh's fault for Schwarts overreaction to the handshake.

The worst part of this is that TY has become untradable.

I don't disagree with you, but there was at least some dissension among the ranks of coaches/management. Linehan liked him a lot and seemed to stick his neck out for him, everyone knows Jefferson hated the guy, but what about Schwartz and Mayhew? There's a reason that he wasn't promoted to the #2 spot, but who knows what it is? It honestly could be JUST that this team is far, FAR too loyal to vets that do NOT deserve it (it maddens me, and most of the fans, it HAS to piss the team off too... Logan, Raiola, Peterman, Nate, etc... If we can see it, they can see it, period).

At the end of the day no one really knows the whole story, but I'm not willing to put it all on TItus. I don't think he behaved responsibly in any way shape or form, but I don't think the team did either, and I'm less likely to fault a 23 year old kid than a group of grown rectum men that seem to pick fights, cause confusion, and frustrate the process of "grooming" talent. Hell, how much incentive does a kid have to play well? Even if they outperform their counterpart they're still riding the pine...

Also, the dissension among the ranks with Linehan and Co. confuse a player and make a player feel MORE entitled than what he already feels. The guy with allegedly the most say in Titus' play/ability, Linehan, liked him and wanted him to play more. That leaves him to think he's doing a great job, and everyone else is just "picking on him."

I can't stress enough that this team lacks professionalism, accountability, and a division of roles. No one knows who's screwing up because no one has a defined role, and no one knows what their job is, because no one has a defined role, and the players can't know if the managers don't know, so the whole team is a misguided cluster phuck... and it shows...

I don't disagree with you, but there was at least some dissension among the ranks of coaches/management. Linehan liked him a lot and seemed to stick his neck out for him, everyone knows Jefferson hated the guy, but what about Schwartz and Mayhew? There's a reason that he wasn't promoted to the #2 spot, but who knows what it is? It honestly could be JUST that this team is far, FAR too loyal to vets that do NOT deserve it (it maddens me, and most of the fans, it HAS to piss the team off too... Logan, Raiola, Peterman, Nate, etc... If we can see it, they can see it, period).

At the end of the day no one really knows the whole story, but I'm not willing to put it all on TItus. I don't think he behaved responsibly in any way shape or form, but I don't think the team did either, and I'm less likely to fault a 23 year old kid than a group of grown rectum men that seem to pick fights, cause confusion, and frustrate the process of "grooming" talent. Hell, how much incentive does a kid have to play well? Even if they outperform their counterpart they're still riding the pine...

Also, the dissension among the ranks with Linehan and Co. confuse a player and make a player feel MORE entitled than what he already feels. The guy with allegedly the most say in Titus' play/ability, Linehan, liked him and wanted him to play more. That leaves him to think he's doing a great job, and everyone else is just "picking on him."

I can't stress enough that this team lacks professionalism, accountability, and a division of roles. No one knows who's screwing up because no one has a defined role, and no one knows what their job is, because no one has a defined role, and the players can't know if the managers don't know, so the whole team is a misguided cluster phuck... and it shows...

I don't put it all on TY either, he was not put in a good situation and a person would have to be blind not to see that, but he deserves the most criticism for being so volatile. Another question I have is WHERE IN THE HELL IS HIS AGENT??!! How could anyone representing this guy let this happen like it this? Somebody please help him, he's most likely destroying his chance of getting on a decent team now and even if he does will he be willing to work his way into a starting spot? His immaturity is way beyond a 23 year old kid and I really hope someone helps him get his act together where ever he goes.

January 25th, 2013, 4:25 pm

DJ-B

Pro Bowl Player

Joined: April 5th, 2007, 5:51 pmPosts: 2578

Re: Off-Season Moves

I Agree with WJB & Others about not holding onto him in any way to "Punish". Thats just makes the front office look childish and unprofessional, a claim they are trying to fight off.

I Disagree about the Lions causing Titus to become an asshat or giving him justification for not doing his job.

1) Titus was a problem in College.2) Lions take a chance because he has the tools and draft him3) He has a good Rookie season4) in his 1st real offseason he punches 1 of his team captains in the back of the head.5) The lIons let him back in because he is going to act better6) Within a month or 2 he is a distrubance again, and intentiuonally Lines up in the wrong spot messing up plays.7) He gets sent home AGAIN. He promises to change9) He doesnt and gets sent home a 3rd time.

You are trying to jusify his behavior (1 of the worst of all time for an active player in the NFL as far as being a piss poor teamate) because they didnt tell him after his rookie year that he was #2? You make it sound like he needed a New Contract and bigger pay also. What team has ever taken a rookie and given them a bigger contract after 1 year? EVER? TO, Chad Ocho, Randy Moss, et al, the list go of Top WRS that didnt become primadonnas until AFTER They became top receivers for Years proving what they could so, and still none of them behaved in as reprehensible of a way as TY. Not everything you say is Anti-Lions just for the sake of being anti-lions (as some here may say), but in this case you are making a ridiculous argument and sound as silly as TY does on twitter.

The Lions ONLY Blame in this situation was in picking him in the 1st place, and not being HARSHER when he started acting up... it certainly wasnt that they didnt cater to his childish needs and delusions of grandeur. In other threads you say hes not as good as Cobb or Smith (i agree, and they are good teammates) ... and yet here you try to defend the dude while he claims hes better than CJ... the best on this team... and a future HoF guy. Its laughable.

January 25th, 2013, 4:34 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Off-Season Moves

DJ-B wrote:

I Agree with WJB & Others about not holding onto him in any way to "Punish". Thats just makes the front office look childish and unprofessional, a claim they are trying to fight off.

I Disagree about the Lions causing Titus to become an asshat or giving him justification for not doing his job.

1) Titus was a problem in College.2) Lions take a chance because he has the tools and draft him3) He has a good Rookie season4) in his 1st real offseason he punches 1 of his team captains in the back of the head.5) The lIons let him back in because he is going to act better6) Within a month or 2 he is a distrubance again, and intentiuonally Lines up in the wrong spot messing up plays.7) He gets sent home AGAIN. He promises to change9) He doesnt and gets sent home a 3rd time.

You are trying to jusify his behavior (1 of the worst of all time for an active player in the NFL as far as being a piss poor teamate) because they didnt tell him after his rookie year that he was #2? You make it sound like he needed a New Contract and bigger pay also. What team has ever taken a rookie and given them a bigger contract after 1 year? EVER? TO, Chad Ocho, Randy Moss, et al, the list go of Top WRS that didnt become primadonnas until AFTER They became top receivers for Years proving what they could so, and still none of them behaved in as reprehensible of a way as TY. Not everything you say is Anti-Lions just for the sake of being anti-lions (as some here may say), but in this case you are making a ridiculous argument and sound as silly as TY does on twitter.

The Lions ONLY Blame in this situation was in picking him in the 1st place, and not being HARSHER when he started acting up... it certainly wasnt that they didnt cater to his childish needs and delusions of grandeur. In other threads you say hes not as good as Cobb or Smith (i agree, and they are good teammates) ... and yet here you try to defend the dude while he claims hes better than CJ... the best on this team... and a future HoF guy. Its laughable.

1) He should have gotten #2 reps his rookie season, he was outplaying Nate; (this is before any real problem)2) I never said he should be given a new contract, only that he will likely get more money and be in a better situation if he gets himself cut;3) If you can't see that we mismanaged him, failed to put him in a situation to succeed, failed to use him properly, failed to provide incentives to him, and failed to "bring him along" despite the fact that he was grossly outperforming an aging vet that need offensive P.I.s to get open, then there's no point in having this discussion. If you can't see that dissension among Linehan, Schwartz, Mayhew, and Jefferson is partly to blame, there's no point in having this discussion. You see it entire one-sided, and I whole heartedly disagree. I can't stand the kid, I think he's an immature punk, and I think his ego is bigger than his jinormous head, still, we failed him on many levels, and we need to get better as a team at correcting the behavior that makes our draft picks fail.