As more and more people wise up (thank you, internet), interactions like this …

Average Human Being 1: I can’t believe I lost my job.

Average Human Being 2: It’s all part of god’s plan. I will keep you in my prayers.

Average Human Being 1: Thank you. I really appreciate that.

MAY start to sound like this …

Average Human Being 1: I can’t believe I lost my job.

Average Human Being 2: I will ask Santa Claus to give you a job for Christmas.

Average Human Being 1: Gee, thanks.

Will “god” fade into the distance once “he” loses 50% of his fans???

What? You think I’m being an irrational bitch? A girl can cheer for her favorite team, can’t she? Society says that I don’t have to be rational about it. In fact, I’m encouraged to scream & yell without consideration for others as long as I don’t spill my beer on them.

Saw somewhere recently that atheists and agnostics together form the largest group of a religious belief…in the U.S. In Europe, the Germans and Scandies are even more so. There’s a book called “The True Beleiver” by Eric Hoffer, a self-taught philosopher, awarded the Presiential Medal of Freedom, who goes through the attraction of political, social, religious, nationalistic, and revolutionary movements, how they form, what they’re value is, etc. It’s one of those books near impossible to read, since I stopped every four or five pages to try and absorb the info I had been fed. If you have questions, or beliefs to be backed up, this is the book. He has others on social issues, but this one focuses strictly on believers in whatever.
Later….

Don’t even remember where I heard it…I sponge up info from so many sources. It wasn’t a mafority of the population, but a larger percentage than Catholics, Baptists, Methodists, etc. I’m sure there’s more God believers, combines, but they mainly don’t trust of like each other’s ideas of the All-Father…a convention of all non-believers or undecideds would be a big one. I live in a near totally Catholic country, and there’s more backsliding here than a televangelist’s coffe clatch.
Later…

This one came out In October:
“A new study has found that for the first time the U.S. does not have a Protestant majority. The report from the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life released Tuesday put the number of Protestant adults below 50 percent (at 48 percent) for the first time in polling history. The reason for this is partly attributed to the spike in Americans who claim no religion (20 percent, compared to 15 percent five years ago.) The Pew study noted:

Their ranks [the non-religious] now include more than 13 million self-described atheists and agnostics (nearly 6 percent of the U.S. public), as well as nearly 33 million people who say they have no particular religious affiliation (14 percent)… The growth in the number of religiously unaffiliated Americans – sometimes called the rise of the “nones” – is largely driven by generational replacement, the gradual supplanting of older generations by newer ones. ” from here: http://www.alternet.org/belief/number-atheists-us-spikes-protestants-minority-first-time

I don’t know Chris….As long as there is suffering…and loss…and need for hope…
hope in something more than what we see, or some possible explanation and reason for living, suffering, dying…, or man’s implicit need to be….special…
as long as there is that…..
I don’t think we will be without religion…

NAH … the greatest thing we have to overcome right now is being a minority. All we need to do is see, hear, remember more people dealing with the big stuff without god … and doing so in admirable manner. It might be a mere survival mechanism, but I’m putting my faith in it and my life on it.

As dispassionate as a fire-bomb…going to have to remember that. Seems to be an interesting POV here…have to check out more. And not may people work the word “doozie” into their work any more. Like that too.
Later…

Not sure where you’re going with this post but are you essentially saying that the more materialistic society becomes the more our need for God becomes redundant? Or that we are just a bunch of fickle minded weaklings who only need or call out someone in supposedly dire need? The beauty of free will and as the children of God is that we all have adopted (or perhaps always were arrogant) this nonchalant view of the world, our views, our spiritual aspirations, relationships with each other and our inherent subconscious need for answers from the universe we exist in. Science is fantastic but as a very wise man once pointed out science helps man DISCOVER that which already exists. It doesn’t create or make anything happen. It helps us associate names, processes and methods by which we may replicate nature to use it to our advantage. After all we are lesser gods. The universe is for us to learn and expand ourselves with.
I don’t personally think mocking or making fun of Jesus is a particularly healthy past time but whatever spins people’s wheels uh.:-) From experience this I can assure you that no man has ever been happy only trying to please himself. Ever. Eventually we all need the being called GOD. Whether it be in the next twenty four hours or in the next fifty years. It eventually catches up. Let the world spin whatever stories, new age beliefs or systems it wants to but the truth always eventually wins. I have people questioning the bible all the time. But we are relatively intelligent beings. Why not take the best from it and the rest that seems dubious disregard. Just like we do in most things in our lives. Faith in the end for me is organic. there are no new theories that dazzle me; there’s no new group that captures my imagination; no new discovery of planets or particles that move me so much that I start thinking beyond God. Relationship with God is as rebellious, as mixed up or as straightforward as you want it to be just like you do with your parents. Choice is essentially ours, like everything else. Would love to discuss more but I think I should stop lest I stir the wrath of the ‘gods’ of the world. God bless.:-D

I had a thought (or a hope) that perhaps — god is personally relevant to the majority of people in proportion to the cultural/social relevance of god. This post was a whimsical reaction to that hope-filled thought, and I ask the question … once believers drop below 50% of the population, will we see a sharp decline in belief?

I’ve just read your profile. I can guarantee that your little girl will grow up a Christian too. (Or a rebellious little bat … your call.)

Free Will — is an illusion. Just consider what effect God’s ‘omniscience’ has on your Free Will. No? (CLUE: go back in time and look forwards. Go forward in time and look backwards.)

EEK! Are you suggesting that we cherry-pick the Holey Word of God?
Go wash your keyboard out at once—the whole books is Gospel and not to be fiddled with! (Yes, books, plural—over three hundred of the buggers if memory serves, from eclectic sources and selected by hard-headed businessmen a thousand years ago — in fact, they did your cherry-picking for you—all you have to do is understand that the entire edifice is the Rock. Take or leave it, but do NOT fiddle or be selective: God’s word is not to be tweaked. Tut!

(Holey: adjective, means riddled with holes.)

(Gospel: word evolved from ‘God’s spell’ which at the time meant GOD’S word.)(And you want to be selective with that? Big G will NOT be amused, I tell you!)

@ GetWithTheProgramPpl
Chris is a funny guy, but underneath all that weirdness you will find that many of his posts have a deadly serious vein running through them.
Christianity is a stubborn bitch for sure, but that said it will eventually be little more than a piss-willy belief that only silly billies adhere to.

Using denigrating language to put a point across is never a good conversation starter therefore I shall politely ignore the sparring undertones. God bless!:-D
Ps: And Chris is a very interesting blogger hence why I follow his blog.

Sorry, I didn’t mean it to be denigrating, Í wasn’t sure at what intellectual level I should pitch?
I generally find that Christians, because of the humongous bias they have in their dealings with anyone not of their faith, coupled with their monumental arrogance in presuming that their faith and their man-god are so special, when in reality it is such a load of ridiculous claptrap, that they are unable to hold a rational discussion for more than one or two comments before sinking into the diatribe of doctrine.
Please bear this truism in mind: If religion was open to reason there would be no religion.

Peace. May you eventually find true enlightenment and not wast your one and only and fairly brief life chasing a delusion.

Hahaha. Lol. Clearly you are an intelligent human being who can suss out the claptrappers from the genuine people of God. Trust me you will KNOW the difference. If the Christians you met made you feel like that then I’m afraid they have done a pretty shoddy job of representing their faith. Every organised religion is a way of living life in a way that helps protect and nurture our souls. Whichever one speaks loudest to you go for it. If nothing does then so be it. I welcome anyone who accepts my faith and I still welcome anyone who doesn’t. My faith is my personal journey to God and relationship with HIM/HER. Not for anyone to judge me by and vice versa. I was born a Muslim, dabbled in a few New Age claptrapping (love this word) and finally came to my senses after accepting Jesus as a true saviour. I love what God has done for me and continues to do for me. Such things I’m afraid cannot be explained in debates. They need to be experienced. So it’s a moot point for us I guess.:-)
This one beautiful life is for exploring and discovering. And sometimes God allows some of us to find Him because of whatever destiny He has for us. Jesus died for us out of LOVE. That amazing emotion that no one can truly define yet feels and craves all the time. One of the downfalls of modern civilisation is that we have become too big for our boots and start questioning the very Creator that has created us. But look at us. In our physical form we are weak and fragile. We get hurt and we all eventually die. In the face of such awesome power as our Lord in Heaven how do we find the audacity to question our own Father? Free will is a bitch I think.;-)

EEEEK! You’ve done it again~!
Listen, dammit, for the sake of your immortal soul if nothing else — God is not a HIM/HER, God is a HE! End of story, not negotiable and to even suggest otherwise is to cast doubt upon the Holy Word itself.

(Mind you, in some of the earliest writings God was feminine … but the early Fathers soon knocked that one on the head!)

So, make this your catechism and keep repeating it till it sinks in—

God = male = good, no?
God = male = good … unarguably.

Just try suggesting to a member of a REAL Abrahamic religion that God’s gender is in doubt and see what you get. (Them Islamics know how to do it, I tell ya!)

Dammit, Spouse wants me to take her to town but I have to finish what I started:

You said “And sometimes God allows some of us to find Him because of whatever destiny He has for us” …

Please reconsider that statement. Think about the implications—is that really YOU speaking, or your indoctrinations? Because you’ve left further massive breaches in the dikes — actually, you’ve enlarged them.

Born a Muslim? In the word of O’Connell in that movie “This just keeps getting better and better!” So now you’re on everyone’s hit list, you little apostate, you … just as well you use an alias. Abrahamic religions aren’t renowned for being forgiving, regardless of what they spout.

And now off to town, I have a date with (a) my notebooks, and (b) destiny at Starbucks. (Gotta finish what I started about “Free Will v. predestination”)

The stuff you’re writing here is great.
==I was born a Muslim== No, you weren’t, but _now_ you ARE an apostate.

== dabbled in a few New Age claptrapping == Here I thought you didn’t like people who use denigrating tones?

== finally came to my senses after accepting Jesus as a true saviour.== Does this mean that you deconverted from Christianity or that you have to have lost y our senses in order to become Christian? Maybe if you had your senses before the New Age efforts would have paid off. Perhaps all you needed in the first place was some therapy?

== I love what God has done for me and continues to do for me.== This is a statement for which you have zero proof. You can claim all you want but you will still have zero proof for a very outlandish claim. It’s the kind of things that batshit crazy people do and say, yet you seem to think that there’s nothing wrong with you.

== Such things I’m afraid cannot be explained in debates. They need to be experienced. == Yes, you have to believe before it’s real. You see, faith healers can’t work unless you are there in person to be bamboozled. You have no credible evidence for your god, not one scrap, but somehow in person it can be shown. This is how many horror stories start ‘…. I have to show you’ and it is how all good scams start.

== So it’s a moot point for us I guess.== and for anyone who won’t be bamboozled by parlor tricks and emotion. It’s not the atheists that you have to convince. Most of them are not willing to simply change their minds without evidence. Your scam is not good enough. Your scam isn’t even good enough to convince people who want to believe in gods. If it was there would only be one religion. If there were real evidence for your god there would be only one religion and no non-believers. But you have no credible evidence, can’t convince people who want to believe in gods, and clearly are unwilling to even articulate a reasonable argument for belief in your god.

Before you go accusing people with denigrating tones about not having faith. At least one person on this thread was raised by a pentecostal preacher, and believed in god fully through the formative years and teens. At least one knows more about your faith and holy text than you do. At least one has thought and felt as you do now.

Your direct link with god does not exist. You’re talking to yourself and have deluded yourself into thinking there is a god. You even shopped around to find one that suits the voice in your head the way that YOU want to hear it. The god of Abraham comes in three flavors…. you’ve tried two of them now. As a woman you’re still supposed to keep your mouth shut and obey your husband like a slave. Your faith may indeed hold no judgement (except against rude people and such) but your holy text most certainly does judge and rather more harshly. Have you ever figured out how many people are true Christians? Well, it’s less than 1% of all the people who have ever lived. All your family are likely to be burning in hell while you sit in heaven singing about how wonderful Jebus is for eternity. Yep, that’s some non-judgemental stuff right there.

You have not thought this through yet. Maybe you never will. Belief in gods does not make sense. It only calms your nerves while your too scared or too ignorant to want to know the truth and get through life on your own two feet. It’s a crutch for the deluded and those that want to use it to feel better than those they don’t like.

But hey, your faith is pure and perfect, right? Let he without sin throw the first stone. I’m thinking your Jesus would not approve of your pride…. but hey, your faith is pure so you’ll probably make it to heaven. Nothing to worry about there.

”Jesus died for us out of LOVE.”
This stood out from all the rest because after two sentences I felt I was reading something from William Lane Craig.
You aren’t one of his groupies, by chance?
Sorry, personal question, I know. None of my business.
Mind you if he is as boring and long-winded beneath the sheets as he is behind a lectern…
Never mind..conversation for another day, perhaps?

Where were we? No, dear, Jesus was crucified by the Romans for being a complete plonker.
Anything divine or messianic attributed to his character was bestowed upon him by the Church.

You need a little time to swot up on your history, biblical as well as Roman.
Then afterwards a little archaeology for desert.
Be the best spiritual enlightenment you’ll ever likely receive. better than waiting for the Second Coming. Fat lot of good waiting did for Mary Magdalene, right? Old JC was a one hit wonder. And that’s all folks….

Once again rude connotations thrown in here and there..:-/ It’s okay. I will pass on your kind advice. I don’t want to read up on History to understand the Christian faith. I will leave all the reading and brainwashing of the devil for you to enjoy. And I’m a groupie to no one thanks. A die hard fan of Jesus though. He was most certainly not a ‘plonker’ but you seem to have had first hand experience of this so what do I know eh?:-) Good night!

Credit where it’s due, you’re weathering a storm here with impeccable sang froid (I’ve waited so long to use that I’ve forgotten what it means)(but it looks impressive).

Personally I think you have been duped by experts, that’s just my opinion. This side of the grave there’s no way I can prove it to you, and that side there’s no way I can gloat over being right … bummer.

It’s pointless debating with someone who doesn’t have an inkling of faith in them. Because everything is either painted with the big, expansive brushes of history or gentle frustrated flares of cynicism over all things God related. Why don’t we agree to disagree?
Saved from everything! Life’s many tribulations, mistakes, foolhardiness, hopelessness; people’s evil and malicious intent. Everything and I repeat everything. The life here and the hereafter. One day you will ask yourself important questions. We all do at some point. You may scoff and discount my faith but my faith is organic. It has no bias, it holds no judgement and has a pure and direct relationship with God. Pure and simple. Peace(?)!

”Ps: Why so angry Arkenaten?:-) Trying to convince me how foolish my ways are is a waste of your all important time surely? Since I believe in such ‘nonsense’..:-D”

Smile…Angry, Qui moi?

Okay, I confess , I am angry because I was abused by a naughty Presbyterian Minister.who was a former Muslim who turned to Christianity in September 2001 after he couldn’t get a pilot’s license. Ah, the wiles of the lay preachers. What can you do eh?
They promise you the earth…and beyond, in the loving embrace of our Lord and Savior and meanwhile, they are just rapists in disguise. And if they are not raping you physically they are doing it mentally.

I have nightmares that Jesus watches me in the bathroom.

Yes it’s enough to turn me to drink. Or listen to Justin Beiber.
No pleasing some people.

Hahaha. See I knew it. Something was amiss. So some degenerate hurts you and abuses you and you blame God for that? How’s that fair? Not that what happened to you is fair either. 😦
Read my blog post titled- Human Monster..please.

Essentially certain things happen, the vilest of vile things, the most soul destroying things. But sometimes they happen to strengthen the real spirit your were born with and to help you get that much closer to fulfilling your destiny. Believe it or not, we all actually have special destinies. That vile preacher will get his due. Trust me his soul is not at rest because it is in the clutches of the evil one. At points like this Arkenaten you have a decision or choice to make. To really destroy your beautiful soul or be reborn from the ashes of ruin. I know this because I have been there. It’s not easy.:-(

”Saved from everything! ”
Really? God can’t help you there, I’m afraid. You found that out when you were a Muslim. And the other avenues you may have pursued. It is just a tad disappointing that you are so gullible to believe the Crispyuns have the answer where Morhamdad didn’t. It is not surprising, though, a if you have experienced some bad stuff in the past then you have my sympathy. But believe me, there is no answer in religion, god belief or the man god of the Christians. who was just one more dingbat prophet running away to the desert.

If you are not prepared to investigate the history of your religion/faith and approach it blindly as you no doubt did with Islam then you deserve all the nonsense you receive on such blogs as this. But you questioned Islam and realised it was dog do.
And you HONESTLY think what you believe now is real? Pfffft! Raspberries.
Oh, dear oh dear oh dear….

Ps: (My little one insists) Muslims and Islam as a whole hold awful memories for me but I respect a lot of the practices in Islam minus you know the women issue. But it’s too much for me to be reminded of it all and well that’s a whole different story. I ALWAYS wanted God and I finally have found a more sane path. God was and is everlasting within me I’m sorry (not) to tell you. What exactly do you mean by I deserve what I got in the blogs?! Silly digs and insults do not bother me dear Arkenaten. I’m pretty comfortable within myself and my FAITH.:-) Baby needs mummy! ‘Night!:-D

I will 100% admit that I am only catering to the lowest common denominator of person when I tritely & shamelessly suggest … that I THINK there might be some chemistry between you & Ark. I think I’m seeing some cookies being exchanged. Eh, some megabytes flyin’? Is anyone else seeing this??

I mean , that while you have my genuine sympathy for what you experienced as a young girl, to venture into an atheist environment espousing religious polemic, no matter how you wish to couch your words, is tantamount to utter stupidity, as there is no chance of you reaching anyone here with your ‘message’, of this I can guarantee. Many of those who are atheists were former die-hard Christians, from frothing at the mouth fundamentalists to ordinary Catholics or Protestants, yet all who admit to this do so because they have asked the questions religion cannot answer, have investigated their faith and their holy books and found them sorely wanting, to the point that they have all realized they had been fed lies since they were born.
After your own personal experience, I can maybe understand why you still cling to your belief in a god..but only maybe, as you will find, if not already, that Christianity is as full of vile hypocrites and abusers as Islam.
If it were within my power to convince you to allow your daughter to make her own spiritual/religious choice without being inculcated by her mother I would.

Oh, and just in case you did not catch, all references to an abusive priest were false.
I would not have written that had I known you own story. My apologies.

I had an inkling you were taking the micky but who makes a joke about such things…well everyone these days actually. So perhaps for me it’s too close to home hence I (almost) fell for it!:-) No harm done. I’m actually laughing and think it was quite funny and convincing! Haha. And I’m really not trying to change anyone’s view of God, religion, etc. I promise. We are sharing our ‘whys and how’s. Surely that’s the idea of a blog? Once again I’m well aware of how disillusioned Christians are about their own faith. Thankfully I’m blessed with a different path for myself. I hope others find salvation and redemption in whatever way they see fit. It’s not my job to save anyone. Your life, your choices. Are you happy and content? If yes then great!;-)
Phew! Chris this is my last deflection of the night! It’s been fun but boy my kid is not happy! ‘Night!;-)

If you stepped out of the US you’d see this already manifesting. Some commentators are admitting religion will essentially be dead in Australia in 2 generations. Europe (the entire continent, that is) is approaching critical mass of non-believers, but if you just count the under 35’s its already well into the 60% arena.

It probably feels very differently in the States, but take comfort in knowing rationality is the main game elsewhere.

Thank you, John Zande.
Play along for a second, though. Could you give me some more hope (doesn’t matter if it’s false) … that after we drop below the 50% mark worldwide, that there will be an ABRUPT decline in believers??

You’d think so. There’ll always be those home-schooled wingnuts and the one’s who’re just drawn to cultish things, but on the whole the shift should only increase in speed. Seriously, in a lecture on faith in Australia a few months ago people were actually putting a timeline on it. Here, i’m going to find a link for you…

@ Argus..I hope that I’m a good example to my daughter and therefore she grows up to be a good woman with strong values. As for rebellious…oh dear the R word. Didn’t go too well with me so doubt I will let her entertain any crazy ideas.:-) But hey she is her own person at the end of the day. I can only do my very, very best- to lock her up and lose the key at first signs of trouble!;-)

@ Angus(?) I can’t find a reply button for your comments. Grrr….God has no gender. For heaven sake. Let us not be pedantic!:-) And don’t even start with the Muslims. I know I shouldn’t reveal this but I go to an awesome Pentecostal church. Catholics are as bad as the Muslims minus the blowing up of innocent men and women to smitherins for forty virgins in Heaven promise. (Gosh!)
And yes I can cherry pick whatever I want. God is within all of us and I ask for His/ Her guidance all the time. I take what speaks to me the most as my daily message and live according to it. In fact I survive most of life’s drama because of the beautiful verses in the Bible. And the wonderful community I live in. I’m truly blessed and therefore can shout out to the world that Jesus is indeed the way!!!:-D
( Yes go on then…you’re itching to take the micky out of me albeit very politely…which is nice of you but go ahead. My faith is unshakable.) Plus this whole statistics thing means nothing. So 51 % of the population lose faith in God….but what if the smaller percentage have a very firm foundation in their faith.It’s quality that matters not quantity. If hundred people claim to be Christians but really only fifty of them bother to go to church and out of that fifty only twenty-five genuinely believe what they are practicing then I think God will be pleased. And God’s word will be alive through that small minority alone. Missing out in God’s love is not God’s loss, it’s our loss.:-)
Oh dear I need to go back to my book I have been trying to finish for the past two days. God bless you always no matter how skeptical or cynical you are about His/Her existence. ‘Night folks.:-D

That’s ‘Argus’ … (Angus is the pretty kid’s horse in ‘Brave’)(great movie about a feisty kid and the problems she has with her scene-setting Mother). No religion involved, if you can bear it.

Let’s hope you never run into a Christian fundamentalist if you think you’re entitled to Free Will where the Word of God is concerned. No way~! Stake material.

Do people have to go to church to be Christians? What about the souls who find God in the garden but simply cannot be bothered with all the meaningless scene setting and play acting (and tithes?) in ‘The House of God’?

Pedantic? Moi? Poorly paid but someone has to do it … so you are allowed to cherry pick when roaming through God’s orchards? That’s progress.

@Argus(excuse the earlier error) I just cannot seem to remove myself from this post! You can pray anywhere. Church is a community where the word of God is kept alive through praise and worship. We glorify and honour God together. It creates some electric energy. I love it. You don’t have to go. Tithes are used to maintain the church and if needed to help its community. It’s not as dogmatic as you seem to be hell bent on believing Argus.:-) I promise! And I’m an international child! No labels please…where possible.:-D We are smart….you know we are!;-)

Back in 1978 I was verbally sparring with an otherwise intelligent guy who challenged me to attend ‘Jesus 78′ with him and his missus. All I had to do, it seems, was simply front up (one among quite a few thousands) and I’d be instantly saved, converted in a heartbeat by the undeniable presence of God.

I attended.
It was perfect in every respect (from my viewpoint). I believe but memory may miss bits that the guest speaker (a southern hemisphere Billy Graham of the the time) was a Reverend Clark-Taylor from Australia.

Anyway, right on dusk it started. The MC warmed us up a bit and of course the folk who knew the ropes got to their feet and held their arms aloft, swaying to the beat … and Gods forgive me, but with perfect timing a Boeing whatever-was-the-big-one-before-the-747 climbing out of Mangere Airport went right overhead; and it looked from my perspective as if thousands of savages were worshipping great big metal bird in sky. I cracked up completely and had my indignant mate’s elbow up to the hilt in my stomach; I managed to turn it into a coughing fit so nobody else would be offended.

But then after the imported Rev was given a huge oral write up, the crowd went wild as a guy (immaculate in a suit) I hadn’t even noticed on the stage stood up and took the spotlight.
It was the first time in my life I’d seen a wireless microphone, he swelled in stature and energy and started striding about the stage completely unhampered by wires or leads, waving his arms and fairly letting loose. A masterful performance … but wait, it gets better … after a good haranguing and stuff he called for prayer.
The lights dimmed, he went motionless again, the stars were twinkling in the blue firmament above us and a sibilant muttering filled the air. I was a bit lost, I expected the usual C of E formula “Our Father, which (or who) art in heav’n, hallowed be thy etc etc etc amen” but nothing so mundane (or arcane, your call).

After a few minutes of this the lights came back on and Ol’ Rev CT called for volunteers for healing to step forward please.
Out of the thousands all he got was about five.
The only one I remember was the wee Maori lad of about nine years … CT put one immaculate hand on the Maori boy’s shoulder (I can still see the lad’s eyes as big as saucers, almost popping out of his head) and then in level tones he murmured a formulaic incantation requesting the healing of our poor brother here etc etc and suddenly he bellowed something like “Evil spirits BEGONE!”.
Ever seen a wee Maori boy levitate?
That kid went a long way up off the ground and his feet were already whirring round before he touched back down again, he shot off like a lovesick rocket scorching for the stars.
I think the good Rev counted that one that as a ‘cure’.

BUT WAIT

It gets more better.
After that CT called for volunteers to turn their backs on Satan, come to the foot of the stage, be met by willing helpers and helped become accepted into the flock as converts.

Two spotlights concealed who knows where came on and illuminated (gospel truth, here) a truly gorgeous long-haired blonde damsel in a flowing white robe with a cherub (oops) cherubic child at the end of each slender arm as she walked them to the fore to be embraced into the church. Damn, I’d have willingly embraced her myse—
“Go on!” it was my mate nudging me to the fore. “Get down there, once you go with them you’ll receive the Holy Spirit in a flash and etc etc waffle waffle babble burble …”
To shut him up I did so.

In front of many thousands of people I was number four to the fore (somehow I think I was really number one; I suspect (naaaaah~!) that numbers one, two and three were actually some kind of Judas goats. They did it well though, the choreography and timing superb.

Anyway two well washed and brushed guys collected me and quickly galloped me into a well-lit hall with oodles of tables, sheets of paper, and scribes waiting the rush.

My mate, snug in the knowledge that I was now securely in the arms of The Lord, tried to follow anyway but was blocked at the door by some rather large chaps who refused him entry (no minders, you see). Inside I could hear his heated English accent and claims to fame “But I’m with Jesus! I’m only trying to reach my mate in there etc etc” but it did him no good. He stayed outside while I was being processed.

They wanted my name and address and telephone number, for starters. I gave them his name, address, and telephone number … then engaged them in debate. Within moments I had one of them excuse himself and sneak off, the other rocking on his heels. He was outclassed and knew it so he went off and came back with what I guess might be referred to as an Elder; who sized me up very quickly and had some large hairy chaps escort me politely to the door and politely but unarguably slip me out of it.

I tracked mate down where I’d left him and he was almost luminescent with repressed fury. It took his sweet little wife ages to calm him down; and when I asked him when were all the nice people going to speak in tongues as he’d promised he told me coldly that that’s what all the sibilant murmurings were. (All that tonguing and I’d missed it? Bugger.)

He classed himself a ‘Charismatic’ but I can’t tell the difference between Charismatics and Pentecostals; possibly none. He and his family moved to Christchurch soon after that so I never did find out if CT and his merry minions followed up on my details …

I googled Jesus 78 and Clark Taylor a few minutes ago.The only joy I got was a Pastor Clark Taylor in Brisbane. In the photo he looks old enough to be the evangelist guy but no way could I recognise him now. From memory the show was at Greenlane, but I could be wrong in that. I’m still wondering if they ever found that Maori kid … honestly, had CT done that to me I’d have shot off like that too. Brrrr~! No wonder evangelists can scare the devil out of folks.

Myself when young did eagerly frequent
Doctor and Saint, and heard great Argument
About it and about: but evermore
Came out by the same Door as in I went.
. —Khayyam & Fitzgerald

Interesting story Argus, and I must admit that as you told it I was filled with memories..
I have been in very many differing denominations (we were church hoppers) growing up. Charismatic was an early one, and one i ended up back in as a teenager.
We had speaking in tongues, prophecies, “slayings in the spirit” , and whatnot.

I remember becoming involved in the praise and worship as a young adult. Playing the drums in one band, and singing in the other…And I remember the music leader (who was extremely talented) teaching us how to speed the repetitive songs up, and “play in the spirit” and how to use things like switching from the minor to the major key, and building up momentum (to the point of a frenzy) …..”allowed for the spirit to move in a mighty way”. I remember at the time putting some of those questions i had…like…if God was all mighty/all powerful/ etc etc did he need us to….”allow for the spirit” by emotionally stimulating the crowd? up on the shelf with my other skeptie questions…for who was I to question the will of god….*(or those in his great service)

Think the whole purpose of praise and worship is to keep the spirit of God alive in us. It’s really more for our benefit than God’s. 🙂 That’s my favourite part. And my take on it. But can I say I do not approve of the people on God TV who keep asking for my card details to save the forgotten children of Africa in their shiny designer suits and with smiles that shame the sun in hiding. I mean really?? They shame us. Please check out this major charity called ‘Watoto’. Incredible charity doing some fantastic work. 🙂

Hey Argus….wow. What an account. Can I let you on a small secret? When I am invited to any of these so called ‘healing’ and ‘miracle’ events I actually dread going to them. I don’t think God works in the way some of these well meaning (or tricksters) people would like to believe. It really demeans the real deal of faith and our relationship with God. Because Argus that is what faith is all about- relationship with God! Now like all relationships you can go about it as best as you see fit and come out a winner or a loser. It’s your call really. Atheists amuse me. You guys are so ‘cool’ and have it all figured out and sit on your ‘throne of we know everything’ and mock everyone else who is more or less doing exactly what you are doing. Following what they believe is the right path for them. Whether that involves a deity or not is another story. Thanks for putting so much effort in trying to ‘show me up’. I’m all good really. I don’t need therapy. My therapy is my Lord in Heaven.:-D And I was using the word ‘claptrap’ as an ironic effect because of what Arkenaten said. I have nothing but compete respect for all faiths and beliefs. Once again it is not my job to save anyone. The onus lies with each individual that chooses to embrace or disregard what life has to teach us. The bigger picture eventually makes sense for some and for some it takes a whole new meaning or none at all. Whatever. Who cares right? I really don’t. 🙂 And someone said I wasn’t born a Muslim…my bad. I was RAISED a Muslim. Because well who knows what babies think anyway. I’m still trying to figure out my six month old. No change there so far. Would make it soo much easier for me. I can actually have real conversations with her than the pretend ones I have been having with silly sound effects that she only rolls her eyes at. Yup. Rolls. Can you believe it. Kids of today eh…:-) God bless everyone! Or in your case ‘peace’!!

I wasn’t trying to ‘show you up’ — that Jesus 78 wordage was what actually happened, honest reporting.

But something I notice is that (too many) devotees DO try to convert people: to their religion in the first place, then to their own particular franchise—often both together. No such thing as ‘live and let live’ when a ‘God’ enthusiast is around, I’ve found. Have you never had the Seventh Day Adventists or Mormons or Jehovah’s Witnesses or other Holy Things come knocking on your door—all bright-eyed, bushy-tailed, well washed, squeaky clean and oozing pamphlets from every paw?

The Happy Krisnas dancing through the streets clanging merrily away—and I remember when Comet Kohoutek was in the offing a very attractive young damsel on an American street corner … I think she was offering me sex-for-Jesus but it was a bitterly cold night and I really couldn’t spare the time so I took my chances with the Comet. (It missed …)

You were raised a Muslim, and you dared turn apostate? Wow~! (Mind you, same God, but even so … ). Obviously in a western country—try that in a real Muslim country and you’d have real problems … or so ‘they’ tell us.

Your baby sounds cute. That she rolls her eyes at nonsense but listens attentively to real speech suggests that Dr Stevenson may be right with some of his theories on reincarnation … peace.

Another reply button for you @ Argus…this button is one wiley little bugger. Keeping finding it in odd little places. Just noticed your ‘sang froid’ comment. I agree it is such a lovely expression and one I knew but never bothered trying to find the translation for. Now I have. And it is as lovely as it sounds.:-D

The majority may believe in God, but there is, I think, a portion which claims belief for many reasons yet do no longer actually believe. Family, friends, for the sake of social interaction, they pretend faith.