Tonic for writer’s block

If you look at a reference work such as A Manual for Writers, you will find that the plurals of prepositional-phrase compounds follow the rule governing the first noun of the compound:

brothers-in-law commanders-in-chief men-of-war

Ok… here is one for everyone. What do you do (oh, is this a straight line) with …

gin and tonic

Some contend that the plural ought to be

gins and tonic

and some say

gin and tonics

The idea here is that a) the gin is the most important element, so important in fact that it must receive the emphasis – ubi maior after all – or that b) the gin and the tonic together form such a perfect synergy that the general rule must apply.

Scotch & waters, black & tans, whiskey 7s and whiskey sours
(remember those?), B&Bs, G&Ts, gin & tonics —
they all refer to mixtures. As such, it’s the single mixture
that becomes plural, not one or another of the ingredients.

In the film,”Shadowlands”,about C.S.Lewis marriage to Joy Gresham,we see them on their honeymoon at a lovely inn in the northern part of England.Whilst retiring to their room Lewis asks the servant to bring them two gin and tonics.He then corrects himself and asks for two gin’s and tonic.
God bless you

“And” isn’t a preposition (and “tonic” is not an adjective!), so I would say that it is “gin & tonics.” If the singular were “gin with tonic,” then I would say that the plural would be “gins with tonic.”

If one is mixing multiple different types of gin with one’s tonic (for whatever ghastly reason….one should never consider another gin if Boodles is at hand), then one would have a “gins and tonic,” but if one simply had multiple servings of the same drink, one would have “gin and tonics,” since, unlike “in-law,” “tonic” is not adjectival, but an essential component of the whole.

Gin also seems to prefer the erudite company of a slight dash of vermouth and a large olive to the whimsical effervesence of tonic and the ricket-chasing lime. Still, there is certainly a time and a place for whimsical effervesence.

Fr. Z, if you saw the destruction that alcohol abuse wreaks on individuals, families, and parishes (when the priest has a serious drinking problem) you would call them “devil’s brews”. I realize that you are not advocating getting drunk, but the casual way we treat drinking encourages those who have a problem. I can’t emphasize too much the degree of evil that people with drinking problems are capable of. I would give examples, but this is a polite forum. If you knew, you would never touch the stuff just because of the association.

Dan – CS Lewis would not have said: “gin’s and tonic” – though he might have said “gins and tonic”.

While the tonic might well try to possess the gin (the only excuse for the misplaced apostrophe), if we’re going to try to get the plurality right we might as well try to get the grammar right also – and, yes, I realise I’ve used split infinitves twice.

Fr. Z, if you saw the destruction that alcohol abuse wreaks on individuals, families, and parishes (when the priest has a serious drinking problem) you would call them Ã¢â‚¬Å“devilÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s brewsÃ¢â‚¬Â. I realize that you are not advocating getting drunk, but the casual way we treat drinking encourages those who have a problem. I canÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t emphasize too much the degree of evil that people with drinking problems are capable of. I would give examples, but this is a polite forum. If you knew, you would never touch the stuff just because of the association.

Don’t confuse alcohol with alcoholism, just as we shouldn’t confuse food with obesity.

The other day I saw in one store about 5 people who were easily 150 lbs overweight. My older brother is 64 and needs new knees, but he has to lose at least 75 lbs–which is unlikely. A former athlete and college football referee (or rather, an umpire) his walk is little more than a slow shuffle.

For me, the ultimate arbiter of such questions is Fowler’s Modern English Usage. It’s gin and tonics. Fowler has spoken.

Reason: “Our compounded drinks we usually think of as a single entity, and are likely to ask for two whisky-and-sodas, two gin-and-tonics, etc.; if we make an exception in asking for two gins-and-French, it will only be because of the awkwardness of Frenches.”

Being a nearly exclusive bourbon drinker, I had to google “gin and French.” Apparently, it’s a very wet martini (60/40 gin/vermouth, or even 50/50 — blech!).

Of course there are several types of gin. But to say gins and tonic would imply that single cocktail containes more than one type of gin (not likely).

Sometimes folks order their gin and tonic by brand name. For instance, Old Tom and Tonic. Would I order two Old Toms and Tonic or two Old Tom and tonics? Probably I’d say, “I’ll have a gin and tonic and she will have the same” LOL.

We have many good things given to us by God which some humans use for evil or foolishly dangerous purposes. Those who use them wisely should not call them evil and insult God. We all have things which we need to give up — but they are all different; we should not try to force our own needs on others.

I agree with Fowler and the majority that it is “gin and tonics”, rather than the other way around. I also agree with those who favor Bombay Sapphire, although Tanqueray will do in a pinc.

Nonetheless, I feel that too much emphasis has been made on the “gin” part. I find that a good vodka and tonic works quite well. I also find that most tonics on the market are unacceptable, as they are (at least in the U.S.) brewed with corn syrup rather than sugar (to which I am allergic), and they are also spiked with various preservatives, to which I have an intolerance.

Rather than cursing the current state of most tonics (including, alas, Schweppes), I have taken the trouble to concoct a recipe for making one’s own tonic water. It may be found here:

Cathy : On Sunday we will hear Our Lady’s reaction to hearing that the guests at a wedding reception had drunk all the wine. She got her Son to produce some more. Puritanism isn’t Catholic ; abusus non tollat usum.

The gentlemen over at Frankly Unfriendly Catholics are sound on gin, even though they sound like the sort of Anglo-Catholics Charles Ryder’s cousin Jasper warned him against.

Plural of lieutenant colonel? To my great surprise Webster’s Seventh does not give it, nor do several online dictionaries. But I should think that in this case “lieutenant” is used as an adjective modifying the noun “colonel”, in which case we get “lieutenant colonels”, just as we get “two red houses”, not “two reds house”. The alternative is for “lieutenant” to be the noun and “colonel” to be the adjective. Won’t work because we are talking about a kind or grade of colonel, not a kind or grade of lieutenant.

Mr Power, have you been able to find any authority on this? Specifically I wondered if there might be a military regulation on the matter.

“Ordering: 2 vodka/tonics” – I was a bartender while at college.
In the U.S. – perhaps in Britain, they would say “2 gins and tonic”.
The gin and the tonic, as the vodka and tonic – become one thing – so the plural would be applied to the cocktail itself, not the alcohol. Don’t ya think.
I’ll have 6 tonite!

Plural of lieutenant colonel? To my great surprise WebsterÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s Seventh does not give it, nor do several online dictionaries. But I should think that in this case Ã¢â‚¬Å“lieutenantÃ¢â‚¬Â is used as an adjective modifying the noun Ã¢â‚¬Å“colonelÃ¢â‚¬Â, in which case we get Ã¢â‚¬Å“lieutenant colonelsÃ¢â‚¬Â, just as we get Ã¢â‚¬Å“two red housesÃ¢â‚¬Â, not Ã¢â‚¬Å“two reds houseÃ¢â‚¬Â. The alternative is for Ã¢â‚¬Å“lieutenantÃ¢â‚¬Â to be the noun and Ã¢â‚¬Å“colonelÃ¢â‚¬Â to be the adjective. WonÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t work because we are talking about a kind or grade of colonel, not a kind or grade of lieutenant.

“Lieutenant colonel” is a contraction of “lieutenant to the colonel,” which is why “lieutenants colonel” is apparently correct, despite your very excellent points above.

Mr Power, have you been able to find any authority on this? Specifically I wondered if there might be a military regulation on the matter.

Can’t find it, but there is a Dept. of Defense Pamphlet or Army Regulation covering manual of style; I had it drilled into my head at either the Infantry Officers Advanced Course or the Combined Arms and Services Staff School. The plural of sergeant major is sergeants major, and major general is majors general.

Ergo, the plural of gin and tonic MUST be gins and tonic. :^D

Fr. Z speaks German: The plural of Hauptmann (captain)is:

a) Hauptmanner
b) Hauptmanneren
c) Hauptleute
d) Rittmeistern

The answer is c) Hauptleute. In German mann is man., and leute is people.
D) is a trick answer because the rank of Rittmeister hasn’t been used since 1945.
[more trivia to stick under one’s biretta]

“I’ll have two gins please… Oh, and pop a dash of tonic in them will you?”

If it causes problems, then avoid it. Order the gin, and then add, as a kind of after thought, the tonic. “A mixer, gosh well, it had never occured to me, but now that you mention it… We’ll both have tonic with them.”

dcs and Mr Power: Thanks to both of you. I have learned something. Guy, I remembered from army days that we had a manual of style and spelling. That accounts for army oddities such as “I inclose such-and-such”. It would almost certainly cover the matter. dcs, I had never thought of unpacking the phrase like you did. Makes sense.

Dom Christopher writes:The gentlemen over at Frankly Unfriendly Catholics are sound on gin, even though they sound like the sort of Anglo-Catholics Charles RyderÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s cousin Jasper warned him against.

For those wondering about this, it’s a reference to Brideshead Revisited.

On plural of lieutenant colonel: There does not seem to be an army reg on it. AR 25-xxx is the general area for admin and paperwork but I don’t find any style manual there.

I did find MISC PUB 25-5 US GPO Style Manual at the above link. For better or worse, it gives “lieutenant colonels”. Their reasoning is that the “significant word” in the compound takes the plural. They don’t say how one determines significance. They assume “colonel” is the significant word. But dcs presents a good reason why “lieutenant” is the significant word.

So we end up with two ways to pluralize “lieutenant colonel”, both with good reasons backing them up.

John Wayne was quoted as saying, “If everything isn’t black and white, I say, ‘Why the hell not?'”

I made the journey to tradition when I was baptised into communion with the bishop of Rome (Paul VI at the time) when I was 18 days old.

St. Irenaeus was the first of the Fathers to expound the importance of Tradition : he explains it as the handing on of the deposit of the faith from bishop to bishop at their ordination. The legitimacy of tradition is an aspect of the apostolic succession. So it’s important to know where a bishop gets his orders from. But the Roman Church is “most excellent” (he gives a whole list of adjectives that I can’t remember offhand) ; you only need to know the list of bishops of Rome going back to Peter and Paul to realize that. So to be sure of recieving the genuine tradition of the Church, it is necessary to be in communion of faith and sacrament with the bishop of Rome.

Bishop Fellay would do well to remember that.

After that rant, I could do with a g & t (or 2 g & t’s), but I have to get up at 5:00 to sing 12 psalms in Latin which you do not need to go into schism to do. (Sorry if I’m being uncharitable, Reverend and esteemed Master of this Blog, but being asked if I “made the journey to tradition” has the same effect on me as being asked if I have “accepted Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Saviour”!)

Dom Christopher: No offense was intended, and none take from your ‘rant,’ which
information I enjoyed reading and learning from.

There is an American Abbot with your same name, from a sort of progressive abbey somewhere
in New Mexico in full communion with the Holy Father who recently spoke, along side Bishop Fellay, at the Si Si No No Conference in Paris; I though you might be he. Was just curious.

I’ve always had a special admiration for the Benedictine’s. Several years ago
I spent many happy hours at the glorious celebration of Vespers at the Abbey in Covington, Lousiana.

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