Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft

Even Paladin doesn't have a ton of ways to flood the board with Silver Hand Recruits, so this really doesn't change the identity of the deck that much. I feel like there would be superior cards for the 6 mana slot. It does wreck Odd Paladin, which I consider a very good thing.

Also, RIP Shudderwock Shaman, which I consider an unqualified good thing. That card is meant to be played once per game, not infinite times.

I'm ambivalent about the Druid changes. Ramp has been part of its identity since the beginning of the game, and I'm sad to see it go, even as it has led to some broken decks. I would have preferred a more targeted nerf to Hadronox, honestly, such as making it lose its Beast tag, but now it'll be slower for the Druid to get there.

As for Kingsbane Rogue... I play that deck, so I'm a little miffed, but I do recognize how absurd it gets in endgame to be able to swing the board by 30 or more health every turn. In fairness, Kingsbane is a response to some of the other absurd combo decks out there, and since some of them are getting nerfed, it may be less of a problem.

I do think they needed to stomp on Druid, but I agree with Memers that this was a really peculiar a time to do so. I mean two weeks into the expansion with no forewarning. It's the time when people are crafting decks and investing and they didn't even let the meta settle for a month.

Not like it's a huge surprise that Druid is still strong, they didn't lose anything and the new set had some neat cards but no obvious meta busters. They should have made these changes either slightly before or as the expansion hits or then wait for a month or two. It'd be different if they were hotfixing badly thought out new cards, but they're just messing with the classic set.

Thank god for Level Up! kicking it. I've been stuck at rank 12 with my Discolock for a while now. I had to overcome a wall of Spell Hunters to get there and then hit a wall of Odd Paladins. That deck is straight up BS. I'm a fan of aggro decks, but when they can always use 100% of their mana every turn very effectively and still not be out of cards by turn 10 after numerous board clears, well it's messed up.

It used to be a skill with aggro, back in the early days, that you had to weigh how hard you wanted to play into a potential board clear. Now it feels like the current iterations of zoo and aggro paladin just don't care.

It's not as if changing Level Up even completely guts the deck, they didn't need it every single game, but it does kick them down a number of pegs. It was stupid how you had to keep playing around it every turn after five mana, when they basically got two Silverhands for free every turn.

Often your only hope was to choose not to clear the board when it was semi OK, hoping that they'd play it and then you could clear the board after. So you had to just accept that the card would let them hit you in the face for on average six damage before you could do anything about it.

NoaqiyeumThe it-thingy
from the October Country
Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature

Ah, the classic Christmas Spirit of Blizzard nuking cards that were never a problem until someone said they are. UI truly has a hidden text of "Subject your class to suffering", like what Shaman used to have after Tunnel Trogg and 4 mana 7/7's were a bit too rampant.

That the non-Druid cards have been nerfed only now, shortly before they will all rotate out of Standard, is just ridiculous though. Admittedly, I didn't put together that the Chain Gang is a Shudderwock Shaman nerf rather than the general Keleseth decks nerf, but here we are.

Naturally, the Druid nerfs are ridiculous and will just cause all Druid players to switch to aggro tokenry. So congrats on slowing the game down, Blizzard.

Well, the stated intention is that they don't want people to use Classic cards over expansion cards, so that only makes sense, doesn't it?

Then they should rotate the Classic set out altogether if it's such a huge problem.

Edited by FergardStratoavis on Dec 19th 2018 at 6:23:06 PM

"So this is how Berserk is going to end."
"With Guts high as fuck?"
"High on distilled Behelits."

FighteerGeronimo!
from the Time Vortex
Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness

The cards I referred to were the Druid cards. Old-fashioned, steady ramp was never considered a problem (I still think Innervate didn't deserve its fate) - we got a fucking Biology Project in Boomsday, even - and the cards that could possibly ramp it up (ha) to a "problematic" levels are going to rotate come next year. Nerfing Nourish is just downright inane altogether when UI exists.

Another problem, beyond how hurtful it is to Druids, that I have with these nerfs is that they'll have to receive obligatory ramp cards at some point, unless Blizzard doesn't give a crap about class identity anymore. These nerfs look even worse compared to the Chain Gang's nerf, which I think might be the most reasonable nerf in the history of Hearthstone:

It doesn't completely kill the card out of usage by raising the mana cost (coughgigglinginventorcough)

It addresses a specific issue (Shudderwock decks) and deals with just that issue.

Stats are unchanged, so people using it for its bodies will continue to do so. (even if Keleseth/handbuffs don't affect it anymore, or at least not to the same extent)

As for Level Up and Leeching Poison, I know why the former would require a nerf - even though I never really used it myself - but the latter kind of eludes me. Even then, taking a nerf hammer to these three cards this late feels a bit like a consolation prize to all these who suffered from the Odd onslaught or Shudderwock shenanigans.

"So this is how Berserk is going to end."
"With Guts high as fuck?"
"High on distilled Behelits."

FighteerGeronimo!
from the Time Vortex
Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness

Leeching Poison is a problem with Kingsbane because it results in a situation where the Rogue can extend the game infinitely, constantly regenerating health and never losing to fatigue. Unless you get really unlucky with draws or your opponent is playing combo breaker, it's easy to have a 15/5 Lifesteal Kingsbane and an extra 1/1 copy that cycle back and forth out of your deck. Every turn you deal 15 damage, heal 15 damage, and never run out of cards. It's a bit like Jade Druid (albeit less broken).

There are some specific counters, of which Shudderwock is one. Most of those decks have weapon destruction, freezes, or both, and either of those cycled indefinitely will shut Kingsbane down 100%. Otherwise its main vulnerabilities are the same as any other combo deck: aggro and OTK.

Well, I just destroyed a Mecha'thun Druid with my Thief Priest deck. When I realized what he was up to, I let him play out his entire deck, then when he had a bunch of 1/5 taunts up, I put up some of my own and kept healing them (his and mine). Without any way to eliminate his own minions, he fatigued to death. Sweet, sweet justice.

Yes, I can certainly make great mileage out of those returned Totemic Mights and Savageries. Ayup. I didn't even realize so many of these cards were missing from Arena drafts when they have their uses, for the most part.

"So this is how Berserk is going to end."
"With Guts high as fuck?"
"High on distilled Behelits."

FighteerGeronimo!
from the Time Vortex
Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness

Edit: The point isn't that those cards are good; they were removed for being really bad in drafts, to the point where you would feel upset if you got them. However, Kripp points out in his analysis video that the current draft algorithm makes it less likely that you'll be presented with all bad choices, and some of those cards have better synergy these days than they used to.

Poor Warsong Commander, though. Maybe Blizzard will add Rush to the list of keywords it buffs, and then... it'll still be terrible.

Seems like the problem isn't those cards per se but the synergy they enable with cards in the current rotation... or, more likely, the next rotation, since we're losing a bunch of cards to Wild in a few months.

Cold Blood in Odd Rogue is just too strong. The Combo mechanic isn't really a hindrance to the card. Of course, this leaves Blessing of Might in a strange position.

Flametongue Totem: 2 mana for 4 charge damage is very strong, yes, but this has been a key part of the identity of aggro Shaman. I can't say I'm sorry to see it go, though; I've been on the receiving end of Flametongue beatdowns way too often.

Equality: It's still an Even Paladin tool, but now requires 6 mana for a full board clear with Wild Pyromancer or 8 mana with Consecration. The balance for this card's strength has always been the fact that you have to combo it. I'm not sure what problem this solves.

Hunter's Mark: Honestly, comboing this with that 1-mana bow to kill any minion (w/o divine shield or camouflage) is just a bit too strong, but again I don't see what fundamental balance issue is solved here. Odd Hunter isn't a popular deck in the current meta, and Even Hunter doesn't exist.

Lesser Emerald Spellstone: So now Hunters have to wait one more turn to put 12/12 worth of stats on the board. Oh gosh, what shall we do?

If they want to nerf combo/aggro decks (Leeroy + Cold Blood hate), why not remove the Charge keyword from the game and replace it with Rush?

Really, if Blizzard doesn't just give out Genn and Baku for free these days, newcomers might as well not bother. If there was ever a card that limited design space, it would be the two of them, and so we saw a slew of crushing nerfs delivered to cards that are neither of those.

Now, granted, they can't exactly be nerfed due to their unique properties, but why you're at nerfing other cards, not fiddle with the card values rather than alter their mana cost? Why could Giggling Inventor not summon a single Annoy-o-Tron and maybe have a 2/2 body herself? Why can't Flametongue Totem not be a 0/2 or just give +1 Attack? Why are cards that haven't been an issue in all of their history of Hearthstone being nerfed now rather than then? (I'm sure Flametongue was a problem in the days of Totem Shaman and Aggro Shaman as well, and neither Tunnel Trogg, nor the meme faceless ever saw a nerf) Why are you nerfing Hunter's Mark for the second time?

Rotate the Classic set, Blizzard. Keep the Basics out since they're Basics, but just kick out the rest and let other sets take its place if it's such a huge problem to your special Odd/Even superstars.

Edited by FergardStratoavis on Feb 1st 2019 at 11:23:25 AM

"So this is how Berserk is going to end."
"With Guts high as fuck?"
"High on distilled Behelits."

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