Technically, you're correct. The differentiation between a dragon and a wyvern in Western mythology is that a dragon has six limbs (four legs and two wings) whereas a wyvern has four (the "front legs" are also the wings).

Hmmm... I never though about that before. I remember an episode of Merlin where they were attacked by Wyverns and I thought, "What is that? Small dragons? Isn't Melin supposed to be the last Dragonlord?" I doubt most people know the difference. "Big flying lizard" must be a dragon. I suppose if you're being attacked you're not gonna stand around counting limbs.

Dragons in Skyrim are actually Wyverns, meaning that the dragonborn is actually a Wyvern born, and that the dragon language is Wyvern language, also the Wyvernborn cant absorb dragon souls, only Wyvern souls, and that the blades are not dragon hunters, but Wyvern hunters, also, Akatosh, the god of time, Its not a Dragon but a Wyvern, and that Olaf One-Eye didnt captured a Dragon in Dragonsreach, but a Wyvern, and that the dragon bone armor its actually Wyvern Bone Armor, and that dragons have never existed in Tamriel, only Wyverns."

Dragons in Skyrim are actually Wyverns, meaning that the dragonborn is actually a Wyvern born, and that the dragon language is Wyvern language, also the Wyvernborn cant absorb dragon souls, only Wyvern souls, and that the blades are not dragon hunters, but Wyvern hunters, also, Akatosh, the god of time, Its not a Dragon but a Wyvern, and that Olaf One-Eye didnt captured a Dragon in Dragonsreach, but a Wyvern, and that the dragon bone armor its actually Wyvern Bone Armor, and that dragons have never existed in Tamriel, only Wyverns."

i've actually read and heard about this before, and Bethesda said that making a a six-limbed dragon would be to hard and they would only waste time trying. So from what i read it has something to do with capabylity, Coding, and they would be to big.

Obviously this is all fantasy, but that being said, from an evolutionary standpoint, 6-limbed dragons are a lot less likely to exist than the 4-limbed wyverns. It's like a pegasus (flying horse), angels (humans with wings), griffons (flying lion-birds), the spinal structure necessary for any of those things to exist simply isn't practical. I don't know about anyone else, but I think these "dragons" move and look very much like one would expect them to if they were real. Oh, and I just remembered, most importantly, this is NIRN, there are several things that aren't the same as EARTH (e.g. ebony is rock instead of wood). So, maybe they don't have 6-limbed-flying-anything either, except the vampires, whose wings look ridiculous, IMHO. No one in Skyrim is talking about anything called "wyverns", to them they're dragons. They're DRAGONS, because that's what THEY call them, regardless of EARTH mythology.

Bethesda actually strike a balance with the limbs. While Dov only have four limbs, while on the ground they use their wings as forelegs. So essentially, they do have four legs and wings, it's just that some limbs are pulling double duty.

Or it could just be translation convention. Dov are neither dragons, nor wyverns from earth mythology, but 'dragon' (intelligent, proud, mildly magic) is closer in essense than wyvern (aggressive, beligerent)

This conversation is kinda ridiculous... haha but amusing all the same.

Personally I think Bethesda chose to make "wyverns" aesthetically rather than "dragons" because kind of like a bat, the form of front arm/legs/wings looks a lot cooler and creepier than a 4-legged dragon with wings on its back. The way the wings fold in when they're on the ground just simply looks way cooler than static legs and wings... this ain't Pete's Dragon here, it's Skyrim.

Nothing to do with coding or size of the beast.... pure aesthetics. Watch a video of a bat sometime, and you'll see exactly what they saw when designing the dragons.

The dragons are actually dragons, because not all dragons have the same number of limbs, some do in fact only have two legs but one thing all dragons have in common is the fact that they have a breath weapon be it fire, frost, poison gas, lightning, acid, or something else. A wyvern on the other hand always only has two legs and no breath weapons but they do have a tail stinger instead similar to a scorpions stinger.

Let's also keep in mind here that there's no definitive "dragon" or "wyvern." Every ancient civilization on Earth has had a dragon/serpent present in its mythos, and they all define them differently... those ideas have evolved and grown and been represented differently visually a thousand times over.. but we all commonly know them as Dragons. There's no official authoritive source on what defines the terms... other than groups of "scholars" involved in a pissing contest of intellectual puffery.

That's why I said on some level this conversation is "ridiculous" because it's merely arguing semantics... if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck.... etc.

Wyyverns are a breed of dragon that only has four limbs (two legs, two wings) and a barbed tail. So dragons are wyyverns. I think the term "dragon" is an animal, like "dog" and "wyvern" would be "Labrador."

It's ANOTHER PLANET! "Dragon" & "Wyvern" are terms from Earth ENGLISH. The authors of the game could call them "DUCKS" and it would still be correct, it's THEIR language. This is a game where Ebony is a METAL (it's WOOD if you didn't already know), and there's a dozen other things you could pick nits at. Most "normal" people don't even know what a "wyvern" is.

I guess that's true. I asked all my friends and family and nobody knew what a wyvern was except for my close friend, but she's a fantasy nerd like me. I guess their language is just a lot like English. Another planet? I think it's kinda like back in time. . .except back then, it was normal for their to be vampires and stuff. . .until a meteorite hit the earth. . .again.

You have to keep in mind this is TES, it's made up, if you think of a troll you probably think of A: Trololo, B: Lotr Troll or C: TES Troll, if you compare the three, all have the same name but are entirely different, in a made up world, almost anything is legit when compared to real world logic.

Azaisya wrote:I guess that's true. I asked all my friends and family and nobody knew what a wyvern was except for my close friend, but she's a fantasy nerd like me. I guess their language is just a lot like English. Another planet? I think it's kinda like back in time. . .except back then, it was normal for their to be vampires and stuff. . .until a meteorite hit the earth. . .again.

In my opinion the four-limbed dragons in one of the best things Bethesda has added to it's games. That looks so much more natural, looks good in creature animations and makes TES stand out a bit from other fantasy titles.

And please remember that many of us are apparently looking things from the western point of view. Chinese dragons are usually shown with four legs and no wings at all. And even St George, in early medieval pictures, is sometimes portrayed fighting a dragon that only has one pair of legs and wings.

Besides, in medieval mythology dragons were commonly imagined as snake-like creatures with legs living underground (and you need four good legs to live on land, right?). They were rarely described as flying beings - even though it was common that dragons had small wings on their back (as with many mythologial creatures who couldn't fly either). I believe that over many centuries artists and illustrators just started making the wings bigger and people started to imagine dragons as flying beings, more associated with sky than land.

As with Wyvern, I believe it was created mostly for the use of heraldy rather than mythology. If someone has a good source of wyverns in actual mythology I'd be happy to view that.

And one more thing: Dragons with four limbs are just more fashionable at the moment. Game of Thrones also has dragons like this.

Azaisya wrote:I guess that's true. I asked all my friends and family and nobody knew what a wyvern was except for my close friend, but she's a fantasy nerd like me. I guess their language is just a lot like English. Another planet? I think it's kinda like back in time. . .except back then, it was normal for their to be vampires and stuff. . .until a meteorite hit the earth. . .again.

If we're going to argue semantics about number of legs, then I'm going to argue semantics about how eastern dragons are real dragons and european dragons are horse-lizards with wings, I'll call them horsards.

Azaisya wrote:I guess that's true. I asked all my friends and family and nobody knew what a wyvern was except for my close friend, but she's a fantasy nerd like me. I guess their language is just a lot like English. Another planet? I think it's kinda like back in time. . .except back then, it was normal for their to be vampires and stuff. . .until a meteorite hit the earth. . .again.

There's 2 moons. Nirn is NOT Earth.

I guess you could say that. . .but I've only seen one moon.

Yeah, Nirn has 2 moons, a big red one and a smaller white one, but I don't know their names. Next time I see both, I'll capture a picture and post it... wait... never mind, I'm sure I can find something on the internet. Here we go. From this picture you can see that the smaller white moon is closer than the large red one. I imagine that with moons like these Nirn's seas would have HUGE swings between low tide and high tide.

Dragons in Skyrim are actually Wyverns, meaning that the dragonborn is actually a Wyvern born, and that the dragon language is Wyvern language, also the Wyvernborn cant absorb dragon souls, only Wyvern souls, and that the blades are not dragon hunters, but Wyvern hunters, also, Akatosh, the god of time, Its not a Dragon but a Wyvern, and that Olaf One-Eye didnt captured a Dragon in Dragonsreach, but a Wyvern, and that the dragon bone armor its actually Wyvern Bone Armor, and that dragons have never existed in Tamriel, only Wyverns."

This is a different planet, it isn't a game called Accurate Knowledge on Ancient Mythlogy.

Dragons in Skyrim are actually Wyverns, meaning that the dragonborn is actually a Wyvern born, and that the dragon language is Wyvern language, also the Wyvernborn cant absorb dragon souls, only Wyvern souls, and that the blades are not dragon hunters, but Wyvern hunters, also, Akatosh, the god of time, Its not a Dragon but a Wyvern, and that Olaf One-Eye didnt captured a Dragon in Dragonsreach, but a Wyvern, and that the dragon bone armor its actually Wyvern Bone Armor, and that dragons have never existed in Tamriel, only Wyverns."

This is a different planet, it isn't a game called Accurate Knowledge on Ancient Mythlogy.

And may I remind you, Skyrim ISN'T REAL!

Ok dude, relax, It was just a joke, I really dont care how accurate its Skyrim with Mythology, I just think that Wybern Born sonds cool...

TodKarlson, ok, ok, u win. The last time I checked the moon, it was full and the red was probably hiding the white. Ya, I bet. If they had invented surfboards, I wonder how high those waves might be. ;)

Wyverns only have 2 legs. And 2 wings. I guess the wings can be their "front legs", but either way, the dragons in Skyrim are 4-legged, 2-winged beasts. While they are similar in appearance, they are still 2 different things.

Imperial-Dovahkiin wrote:@TodKarlson I don't know which is which but I think they're called Masser and Secunda

Wow! You're right. They're Masser & Secunda. I tried searching for "TES moons" and wasn't able to find the names. I previously stated that Secunda is closer to Nirn, but it turns out that it is orbiting Masser, so in that picture it was closer, but there must also be times when it is further away.

I think we've pretty much established that the Dragons of Skyrim might be called "Wyverns" by some people on Earth, but since Nirn is another planet, as illustrated by its 2 moons, Masser & Secunda, they're DRAGONS, because that's what the people of Skyrim call them, regardless of what some smart-asses on Earth would call them.

The mechanics of making a 4-limbed dragon look/move realistically are a lot easier than for a 6-limbed dragon because there are real world examples of 4-limbed flying animals to model them after, but not so for 6-limbed. The bone structure simply doesn't exist in nature.

Actually, Wyverns and Skyrim's dragons are very different. For one, Wyverns a noticeably less reptilian in appearance than traditional dragons and Skyrim dragons. For two, Wyverns have beaks and no teeth. Dragons usually have just teeth or beaks with teeth, as Skyrim's dragons do. Oh, and dragons in traditional real world lore CAN have only four limbs as Wyverns do.

The original point of this thread was that the dragons of Skyrim are actually wyverns because they don't have seperate wings from their forelegs, but the fact of the matter is that there are lots of versions of both due to artistic interpretation. Then again, that doesn't really matter, because what does matter is that the people of Nirn call them dragons. Look at these wings. They're just wings, not forelegs. Skyrim's dragons have 4 legs, it's just that their forelegs are also wings, which is exactly how dragons would be, if they were real.
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Mostly, at this point, I just wanted to weigh in here. I know this is mostly a rehash of a lot of what has already been said, but with any luck it'll put an end to what is, in my opinion, a horrid waste of conversational time.

[1] A wyvern is a type - breed, if you will - of the dragon culture.

[2] This is a game, and therefore isn't bound by all the standards we as humans put on earth mythos.

[3] Dragons have been called dragons with any combination of legs and wings throughout mythology and cultural stories in history.

[4] I like the square vs rectangle comment made early on, all wyvern are dragons, but not all dragons are wybern.

[5] The game does not take place on earth, in our timeline, or even within the same universe! With that, it doesn't matter what Bethesda (and the citizens within the game world) calls a dragon, so long as it's big and hard to kill. This is their idea of a dragon, and all the Nords run away and yell "Dragon!" ... therefore, it is a dragon.

[6] Several other mythral-based games and stories have made this same judgement call, and in my opinion it's the right one to make. Solely based on the look of the beast, I have no desire to see a bulky, four-legged, winged lizard throwing fireballs at me.

[7] Finally, and I think most importantly, why can't we just enjoy the game for what it is?! Has Bethesda and Zenimax not always delivered quality games, with quality sotries, and generally kept to the majority of their own primary lore? Trust their call on this one, folks, they know what they're doing. They're the last of a dying breed of game companies out there that aren't pandering to the minority of people that happen to yell the loudest about every stupid thing they want in a game that most of us - who are too quite and too trusting to yell about things - can't stand in every other game out there. Bethesda makes the only true-to-form open-world RPG left in the business. Well, besides Rockstar and their GTA series, but even those have sold-out with a multiplayer portion of the game and the like...so sad to see good companies sell out.

The game, by no means, would be inheirently any worse if the dragons had an extra set of legs, but in my experience playing games where dragons exist and have four legs the models can become difficult to craft. Plus, it always looks like the dragon is skulking around and brooding over things when they're modelled with two legs and wings when they walk. I like that, lol.

the dragons on skyrim are tiny compared to the ur dragon and gregori in dragon's dogma. glad they dont the the ur-dragons health 1.4million. no wonder cant kill him in one shot lol and they have wyrm dragons, wyverns, etc on that game and they are about the size approx of a dragon in skyrim.

ok... i dont get several things about some of these comments (a few of them i wont mention for fans' sake) but why do people seem to prefer these things over real dragons? when one of them plops in front of me and yells at me and then flies off it feels more like a chore than anything else "oh gotta kill another bloody dragon wannabe... huzzah"... while in dragon age (when you do run across a dragon in the first one and all of the bloody times you run into one in the 2nd) it feels a little bit more exhilirating because you know this bloke is going to tear you inside out (i also like how they use their flight to drop on you from above which seems a bit more practical than a strafing run that doesnt hit anything or a dive that plasters them across the ground)... so really i guess i dont see where you guys are coming from

oh also i dislike the fact that they chose a wyvern body for alduin when the dragon he is modeled after is a) sooooo much cooler and b) usually depicted as having 4 legs and 2 wings...

One) obviously you've never been subjected to the strafing run when you and your follower are in an enclosed space (like the top of a mountain)

Two) they don't faceplant unless they're low on health. Lets see you fly when your wings are full of arrows and your blood is raining down.

Three) you've also obviously never faced a dragon when you were low enough level (or not a warrior build) that a blood dragon can kill you in two breath attacks.

And, if we're going to compare this to other things, then ok. Inheritence Cycle has dragons that never stop growing, are intelligent, and come with mounted spell casters/jedi who can litterally do anything they can say or think of with enough energy.

As I said before, the mechanics of a 4-limbed "dragon" are a lot easier to execute because such creatures actually exist on EARTH and can be analyzed and copied, but there are no REAL 6-limbed flying animals (not talking about bugs) for the programmers to study & mimic.

Perhaps it's true, but lore considers these things to be dragons. I always heard that wyverns are more snake/wormlike. But who cares, If a wyvern appeared in a real-life city, everyone would scream dragon.

Someone may have already mentioned this already, but...if you have the 2-disc edition of the game, Todd Howard, and a few of the other devs, specifically talk about the design of Skyrim's dragons; his words are "they're more wyvern-like, because we wanted to set them apart from other fantasy dragons", and that when they walk on their wings on the ground, "they look more reptilian and sinister".

correction. the dragons in skyrim are a combo of both dragon and wyvern. what makes them a combo of both is wyverns had a serpentine body with a pair of legs and wings, which is not a characteristic of most dragons, while dragons had the ability to breathe fire (and/or other miscelaneous breath weapons). wyverns were never depicted to have any breath weapons

Well, I found my handy-dandy dragon book, and found that Wyverns are considered an individual species of dragon. As stated, they only have one pair of legs, but they are also the largest kind of dragon. They look exactly like the ones depicted in-game, I was wrong about them being more snake/worm-like.

traditionally in mythology dragons are larger, smarter, and six limbed with some form of breath weapon and a hoard. wyverns on the other hand are smaller, less intelligent, four limbed, more aggresive, with a poisonous bite and a barb on their tail. while there are many variations of both species (with and without wings) the standard is four legs and two wings for dragons, two legs and two wings for wyverns, look at it this way chimps and humans look very different but share much of the same dna and a common ancestor, the same could be said of dragons and wyverns. i have also seen many games with six limbed dragons and they've done quite well with movement and looks. now i shall stable my high horse and head to the inn. knowledge is power

As has been mentioned before, LOTS of stuff in Skyrim isn't quite the same as EARTH/reality, and people are still belaboring this point. Maybe by EARTH mythology the DRAGONS of Skyrim would be defined as Wyverns, but it doesn't matter, because the people os Skyrim call them "Dragons", so they're DRAGONS, period.

It would seem that Dragon Age actually made actual dragons with four legs and two wings. However, you rarely encounter adult dragons in there and the game is a bit less complexed then Skyrim. You mostly encounter Drakes an Juvenial Dragons, or whatever they are called. I think they also got Wyeverns, but I cannot remember if they look too different from dragons in there. Oh and I believe in the second one they also got dragons' cousins Wyrms that look like dragons, but with short legs and long body. Oh and they also have even larger dragons that they call Elder Dragons. Again, Dragon Age is made on a different engine and there is no free world environment in there like in Skyrim. Also, I agree that someone said that Besedtha considered it to be to complex to make dragons with four legs in Skyrim. Oh and I have to say that when I heard that in Dragonborn they will have a Serpantine Dragons, I was expecting a dragon with no legs at all, perhaps wings but no legs. But I guess that would be more like a Sea Serpant then a dragon. Lastly, I believe the only two dragons in Elder Scrolls that have four legs are in statue form. The statue of Perilyte in Oblivion and if I am not mistaken, the dragon statue it Talos Plaza, right when you enter Imperial City. Also, anyone remember what Nafaliargus looked like in Redguard Adventures?

I wonder how Swidish feel about Russians. As much as Russians concerned, Peter the Great was reconquering lands lost to Sweeden. So please don't hate us for that, oh and sorry for taking Finland back then too.

In case people wondering, I am Russian. Oh and I apologise if I said anything wrong, and for appologising too much.

Our view of Dragons vs. Wyverns based on number of appendages primarily stems from D&D, which was inspired by medieval European heraldry. The 4-legs/2-legs (or 6-appendage/4-appendage, whichever you prefer) comes originally from a mixture of Breton (real Breton, not Skyrim Breton... as in the Celtic peoples who inhabited modern day England before the Anglo-Saxon invasions of the Sub-Roman era) and Norse mythology.

Those mythologies were distilled through the Anglo-Saxons, the Norman Invasion, French Romanticism, J.R.R. Tolkien, and (of course) Gary Gygax into what we know today as the 4-legged Dragon and the 2-legged dragon... HOWEVER-

The same mythology that produces that also states that Dragons are highly intelligent and Wyverns are animalistic (+1 Skyrim Dragons), and that Dragons always breath fire, but Wyverns can breath a number of different substances (+1 Skyrim Wyverns... though debatable via the Gygaxian take on the mythology, in which Wyverns lack a breath weapon, instead having a scorpion-like stinging tail- I'm mostly going by the Breton view*).

Ultimately, it comes down to this... every culture has it's own take on dragons. Our dragons come, ultimately, from Celtic and Germanic roots. Far eastern and pre-Columbian American cultures had a far different take on them. Tamriel has it's own unique version. I don't think it's that tough a pill to swallow.

(* when I say "Breton Mythology" I'm going by *some* modern interpretation of Roman accounts. The time from the Roman twilight to the 1st Crusades isn't exactly awash in contemporary sources.)

Legate Alexandros wrote:I wonder how Swidish feel about Russians. As much as Russians concerned, Peter the Great was reconquering lands lost to Sweeden. So please don't hate us for that, oh and sorry for taking Finland back then too.

In case people wondering, I am Russian. Oh and I apologise if I said anything wrong, and for appologising too much.

Its ok, turning the Baltic Sea into a swedish lake may look good on a map, but boy do you make a lot of enemies!

Zmey Gorynich, traditionaly a fat dragon, with three heads and wings. Sometimes depicted Serpentine as Zmey stands for Serpent. However, mostly walks on two legs, with two masive, clawed arms if I am not mistaken. I guess sometimes might be with just two leges and two wings. Gorynich most litterly can be interpreted as Mountain's. So the litteral translation of three headed Zmey Gorynich, would be a Mountain Serpant, I am guessing. Also, usually each head have their own personality, but to defeat this dragon, one must cut off all three heads as over time he can regrow heads if one still there. Some say you must cut off the tail too. Also, said to possess large inteligence and always trying to kidnap beautiful maidens as brides. In some falk tales Zmey takes over the area as overlord, while terrorizing everyone and young hero, usually Prince Ivan have to defeat him to live happily ever after with a beautiful maiden. Oh and according to the article below, Zmey Gorynych typically green, walks on back paws and have short front paws. He also spits fire. One Russian hero warrior in particular in one stories was said to have killed him. His name was Dobrynaya Nikitich. In some tale, Zmey can only be killed with a special sword, called Kladenech. Its named could derive from Russian word "Klad" for tresure. As if it is found in that way. Or from a verb "klast'" which can mean to put or to lay. In terms of putting down your enemies.

Here is regular wikipedia article on Zmey Gorynych. By the way, I was born in St. Peterburg (Former Leningrad) in Russia. It was build as a new capital by Peter the Great on the lands conqured in Great Northern War, from Sweeden. Also, in this article note the description of other Slavic creature Azdaja. It's a dragon like creature in form but a pure evil. Diabolical monster of opposite polarity from dragons, if that even make sense. In terms of dragons already evil enough to terrorize people, how can there be something even more evil then dragons?

That depends who you talk to and what an artist comes up with. There are many different shapes and forms that dragons have through mythology, regions in the world, and art. That would be like saying a lizard with no legs (Legless Lizards) are snakes or worms when they only evolved so they no longer have legs because they became usless over time. Wyverns to many have become known to be a lower class of dragons that lack the intelligence, grace, power, size, and many abilities that dragons have (wielding magic, speaking human language, breathing fire, ice, etc..)

Dragons and Wyverns aren't real and that's where the fun is to be had. There is no clear blueprint our brains recongnise as a "correct" and "incorrect" way to draw or imagine them like it would a dog or person. You could come up with a dragon that has four sets of wings instead of legs, feathers/fur instead of scales, or hooves instead of clawed hands/paws. Plus, when it comes to creating a dragon using computer graphics and then coding, a dragon with two wings and two legs is a bit easier than having to code two wing and four legs.

Technically you, sir, are most certaintly right, wyverns, yes. The four limbs makes sense, like birds, bats, pterodactyles, and archaeopteryx. What in the real world is a six limbed vertabrate? The next logical question, this one's not rhetorical, what in TES is a six limbed vertabrate? Vampire Lords, those were made by Molag Bal, not nature.

Problrm is in Oblivion and other games the "extinct" dragons are always shown/described as having 6 limbs like sculptures and paintings in Oblivion which show dragons having 6 limbs and when dragons come back to life they are now magically wyvens.

Also a bigger problem is that this entire game's story is just a copy of the first 3 Dragonlance books, let the hate begin :p

Why all of the sudden africanized? I fail to see the link. And just like I said before, Japanese dragon is often without any limbs, or long body, short four legs and no wings. I also heared that the difference between Chinese and Japanese dragons are the number of talons on their claws. They are still considered dragon. Oh and is there is any fact that separated wyevrns from dragon, or they often are just two words that describe the same mythological creature?

Legate Alexandros wrote:Why all of the sudden africanized? I fail to see the link. And just like I said before, Japanese dragon is often without any limbs, or long body, short four legs and no wings. I also heared that the difference between Chinese and Japanese dragons are the number of talons on their claws. They are still considered dragon. Oh and is there is any fact that separated wyevrns from dragon, or they often are just two words that describe the same mythological creature?

correct, i believe either the chinese or japanese dragon has one more talon than the other. i also don't know if fact wise they're different, from what i understand through what i've seen, heard, and read they're just different names for the same animals.

a tiger is a type of cat, a lion is a type of cat, a housecat is a type of cat, we can all identify the basics of a cat.

same for dragons. they have legs, wings, breath fire, are reptillian, etc. that should cover it, wyverns are generally speaking dragons. they are a species of dragon, specifically. regardless you're fighting dragons in skyrim.

How would anyone classify Drakes? I probably mentioned it before, but Dragon Age had four legged dragons, you didn't meet whole lot of them though. Also, I cannot remember exactly, b ut in Dragon Age II they also had a DLC the added a creature, called either Wyrm or Wavyrn. In any case they were classified as cousins of Dragons and they had four legs but no wings. Their bodies were long and fat and their libs were short. Besides those, they also had whole bunch of Drakes and Dragonlings that were smaller versions of Dragons for the most part. They also had few of Elder Dragons, bigger and stronger then the regular. I don't even want to mention Deepstalkers. Oh and sorry if I bring up an unwanted game in this post. So, what exactly would be a definition of a Drake?

Dylanisthebest123 wrote:I never got why this bugged so much people. Its a small, most likely, mistake.

is it even worth calling that? i didn't even know what the differences were until a while ago (growing up i didn't specify anything. if it had wings and legs, or even if it didn't, it was a dragon plain and simple.). sometimes, the simpler things are, the better they are.

TodKarlson wrote:Mostly "arguing for the sake of arguing". Some people have to project the notion that they are the "smartest person in the room", even if their comments clearly dispell that myth.

well, i think some of them maybe. but some are legitimatelly trying to discern the difference because they're interested. i'm actually dealing with some people with a serious case of "stroke my ego" itis in a toho kingdom forum. it happens everywhere, there's always someone or two people.

It doesnt matter what kind of creatures wyverns are in other universes, mythology etc. In Elder scrolls - dragons have 2 legs. Thats it, they are dragons, because thats what they are in the universe. If they want they can make dragons with 6 legs or no wings, and they will still be dragons if they say so. In game of thrones dragons are dragons too even though they have 2 legs only. That is what they chose them to have and thats how it is. Not wyverns, unless said otherwise.

^^ i think that's the best answer you're ever going to get/be able to give. they meet the standard criteria of at least two legs. i don't think it needs to really be specified more than that, i don't think it needs further debate.

Firstly Wyverns DO NOT breath fire/ice they only use teeth and claws and stuff

Secondly Wyverns, drakes and other dragon-like creatures are classed under dragons like spiders and scorpions are arachnid

Oh and for the record, skyrim dragons aren't reptiles because they don't lay eggs and if it doesn't lay eggs it isn't a reptile plus it technically isn't even a living organism because it doesn't reproduce.

Box Jellyfish wrote:
a tiger is a type of cat, a lion is a type of cat, a housecat is a type of cat, we can all identify the basics of a cat.

same for dragons. they have legs, wings, breath fire, are reptillian, etc. that should cover it, wyverns are generally speaking dragons. they are a species of dragon, specifically. regardless you're fighting dragons in skyrim.

dragons are described to have 2 to 6 limbs depending on what culture your looking at, some are even described to have no limbs at all, so how are we supposed to classify reptile-like creatures that look like todays stereotypical dragon with six limbs wayverns when cultures have described them with no limbs,

It could be that, in some opinions, that Wyverns just seem more intruiging, than the six-Legged Dragons. The Elder Scrolls is extremely a fantasy, so why not call them Dragons. I think that the Dragons in Skyrim are more fittable to the game style, and that they should stay the same in future games. Think, if the Dragons completely changed in appearence, it wouldn't be very lore friendly.

As a very big skyrim fan i agree to call the makers liars, for calling them dragons instead of wyverns. But someone made a video saying why they called them dragons. It's because the animators found it very difficult to create 4 different moving legs and players might not even know what a wyvern is!

So you see that the makers didn't want to go through all the hastle so they gave then two legs and called them dragons. Even though there are 4 legged dragons in skyrim, but they are very very rare.

Swinbourne123 wrote:As a very big skyrim fan i agree to call the makers liars, for calling them dragons instead of wyverns. But someone made a video saying why they called them dragons. It's because the animators found it very difficult to create 4 different moving legs and players might not even know what a wyvern is!

So you see that the makers didn't want to go through all the hastle so they gave then two legs and called them dragons. Even though there are 4 legged dragons in skyrim, but they are very very rare.

Now, i really don't want to call them liars but even if they don't know what wyverns are youtubers will still call them liars.

You asked a very good question, but what you clearly didn't understand is that in the slightest chance they did know they were wyverns they slill could have found it difficult to create 4 different moving legs which can glitch out and create a bug. it could also lag.

So, thank you for replying to my disscusion and if you have any more suspicions let me know

Skyrim dragons are technically wyverns having four limbs. However, from what I have seen from most wyvern depictions is that they almost never put their arms/wings on the ground and can stand solely on their back legs. It's not a big deal and wyverns are just a type of dragon.

It doesn't really matter for one reason. Dragons do exist, they infact have no wings what-so-ever. The "Frilled dragon" is indeed a real life species with the name dragon but no wings, 4 legs and a frill while Skyrim dragons have 2 wings, 2 back legs. This makes them anything but dragons but if in Tamrielic they are called dragons then who are we to complain? I'm going to call my dog a Coke can and claim that I can because that is what I call it... Ok, that may be over doing it.

I see what you are saying, but Bethesda has classified them dragons, and i hardly think that most people notice the lack of limbs. Honestly who counts how many limbs it has when the thing is trying to eat you?

Very few people know the difference between Wyverns and dragons. I know the difference because I'm obsessed with Kingdom Hearts (and yes there are Wyverns in it for those of you that have never played or seen it before). But it could have been a simple mistake, or perhaps they simply thought that Wyverns look better than Dragons and since everyone knows what Dragons are but so few people know what Wyverns are, they decided the call them Dragons.

Saeraleis wrote:Very few people know the difference between Wyverns and dragons. I know the difference because I'm obsessed with Kingdom Hearts (and yes there are Wyverns in it for those of you that have never played or seen it before). But it could have been a simple mistake, or perhaps they simply thought that Wyverns look better than Dragons and since everyone knows what Dragons are but so few people know what Wyverns are, they decided the call them Dragons.

I actually don't know that much about Wyverns, i only know the name because of the game Runescape which feature Wyverns, as well as Dragons as slayer tasks.

if the people run away screaming "Dragon!" at the top of there lungs, who am i to complain? ill be running away with them regardless thelack/gain of limbs. its that simple.

also, in old stories passed down in my family (we are from the original irish settlers) theres a tale of a Dragon with two legs and two wings that breathed a blizzard onto the feilds of our original homes, forceing us to build ships and sail for a new land (hence how we came to be in Ireland).

does that mean the dragon from our story was actually a wyvern because it doesnt match the 'Christianized/Catholicized version of the Dragon that has become mainstream to this day? and what about the dragons from Japan? my wife has told me many stories about them, serpentine with no wings and only two forearms.

bottom line: there are HU NDREDS of types of dragons. if you see a flying lizard comeing at you, you WILL yell Dragon! and run. its that simple. so yes the skyrim Dragons are just that Dragons.

Personally, from what I know in Russian language there aren't even words for Wavyern. There is a "Drakon" for Dragon, which sometimes refered to as "Zmey", but that more often means Serpent. Also, I had found out recently that the way Basilisk described in Harry Poter, is more of the Russian image of "Aspid". In Russian interpritation, Basilisk was more of a cross breed between bird and reptile. It had a giant, reptilian body, that looked more like a Rooster. Think of a Rooster with a normal head, feet and probably wings, but with scaly body and a reptilian tail. Some say that similar creature actually existed, probably during dinosour times. That is Russian interpretation of Basilisk, who could fly and few who seen a live one lived to tell the tale as they could also petrify with gaze. Aspids were essentually giant snakes in those interpretations, I am not sure if they could turn people to stone or not. Clearly, according to those interpretation, the creature from Harry Potter is more of an Aspid, then Basilisk. However, such can be an interpretation of Basilisk elsewhere. The bottom line is how people describe a dragon in different cultures. It can be one of many interpretation of dragons that made them with two legs and two wings in Skyrim, or it could be because game developers decided that it's too hard to make computer generated image of something that big, with four legs and two wings. We may never know what was the reasoning behind that, but if they are called Dragons in Skyrim lore, they are Dragons and who are we to argue with that.

well this is their game, whatever the maker want to name it, it is correct. suppose if the maker want to name it 'butterfly', it's still correct, cause this game is one of his stuffs, and imaginations.

Yeah the dragons only have 2 legs like Wyverns, but that doesn't -make- them Wyverns, just -similar- to Wyverns. Dragons are more well known to breathe fire, does that make spme Wyvrens Dragons? No, thay're just similar creatures who can sometimes share attributes.

@Pink Slim The asshole nerds are probably just arrogant. Assuming they're smart and they excel in their grades at school. But that's normal seeing as how they will live wealthy and prosperous futures compared to the "Cool people" at school.

@24.144.191.20 If you think the Dragonborn is cool, then you think you are cool. You are the dragonborn. You make the decisions in the game, you wear the cool armor and magical robes and you choose the powers or playstyle you utilize.

Dragons in Skyrim are actually Wyverns, meaning that the dragonborn is actually a Wyvern born, and that the dragon language is Wyvern language, also the Wyvernborn cant absorb dragon souls, only Wyvern souls, and that the blades are not dragon hunters, but Wyvern hunters, also, Akatosh, the god of time, Its not a Dragon but a Wyvern, and that Olaf One-Eye didnt captured a Dragon in Dragonsreach, but a Wyvern, and that the dragon bone armor its actually Wyvern Bone Armor, and that dragons have never existed in Tamriel, only Wyverns."

This is a different planet, it isn't a game called Accurate Knowledge on Ancient Mythlogy.

And may I remind you, Skyrim ISN'T REAL!

Skyrim is real. Duh. The creatures, races and world of the game isn't real, but a game called The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim exists, so Skyrim is real.

Dragons in Skyrim are actually Wyverns, meaning that the dragonborn is actually a Wyvern born, and that the dragon language is Wyvern language, also the Wyvernborn cant absorb dragon souls, only Wyvern souls, and that the blades are not dragon hunters, but Wyvern hunters, also, Akatosh, the god of time, Its not a Dragon but a Wyvern, and that Olaf One-Eye didnt captured a Dragon in Dragonsreach, but a Wyvern, and that the dragon bone armor its actually Wyvern Bone Armor, and that dragons have never existed in Tamriel, only Wyverns."

This is a different planet, it isn't a game called Accurate Knowledge on Ancient Mythlogy.

And may I remind you, Skyrim ISN'T REAL!

Skyrim is real. Duh. The creatures, races and world of the game isn't real, but a game called The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim exists, so Skyrim is real.

real SKYRIM is not exist, but the video games are, so that's that, leave it to that, and be happy with that

You may not have noticed this, but y'all are VASTLY wandering over the diverse and varied terrain of definitions of the word "wyvern". Originally, a wyvern was a snake with forelegs and wings. As in, wings that were not forelegs. Somebody posted a picture that you might find helpful. Modern interpretation has led to much confusion over what a wyvern actually is. Dragonology holds that a wyvern is designed like a bird, with "hind" legs and wings that only serve as wings. Skyrim dragons actually don't look at all like the original, mythological wyvern which the OP was referring to. They are a new design, quite apart from the fact that as many of you have said, it's another world and another culture, where there has never been any differentiation between wyverns and dragons, because in Tamriel there are no wyverns, and the dragons that we are all so chaotically quarreling about are the only things that ever were or could be dragons. It doesn't matter what sort of varieties of dragons we have here. There are no other possible options in Skyrim for what the dragons to be, and besides, since a wyvern is a dragon anyways, and since, as I just explained, the whole issue is irrelevant, there's no point in arguing. It's not going to change anything. It is a moot point and the issue is not important as far as I can tell.

Also, Pink Slim, the moons were being used as an example to show that Nirn is another world in which the wyvern/dragon thing is irrelevant.

Ok, in all honesty, the two legs, two wings dragons are a part of TES. They work well with the environment, they don't seem overly shaped, and, Bethesda has said it wouldn't have been worth the time to make a multitude of traditional, western dragons, instead of the dragons we now have. They cared more about getting this absolute gem of a game onto the market, and I don't think that we need to argue about this any longer.

Besides, they're probably saving a four leg-two wing- dragon for something/someone epic in TES Online, or a later game. Like the appearance of Akatosh. It's a possibility.

First off, yes they are wyverns, wyverns are a type of dragon. Dragon is an general term used to mean large lizard like cretures, it verys from mythology to mythology as to the physical attributes and inteligence. Dragon = rectangle, wyvern = squire, all wyverns are dragons, but not all dragons are wyvern.

And look at the dragon aspect shoult in dragonborn dlc, its final word is wyvern.

And yes they should save the 6 limbed dragon for Akatosh's physical form.

Khaos Reaper wrote: They cared more about getting this absolute gem of a game onto the market.

Well of course they did. In doing this, they neglected to take note of the immensely large amount of errors the game had before releasing it. They just wanted to have the game released by 11.11.11. Didn't even care about the lag the people had to put up with on day 1.

Khaos Reaper wrote: They cared more about getting this absolute gem of a game onto the market.

Well of course they did. In doing this, they neglected to take note of the immensely large amount of errors the game had before releasing it. They just wanted to have the game released by 11.11.11. Didn't even care about the lag the people had to put up with on day 1.

Bethesda actually strike a balance with the limbs. While Dov only have four limbs, while on the ground they use their wings as forelegs. So essentially, they do have four legs and wings, it's just that some limbs are pulling double duty.

Or it could just be translation convention. Dov are neither dragons, nor wyverns from earth mythology, but 'dragon' (intelligent, proud, mildly magic) is closer in essense than wyvern (aggressive, beligerent)

when i first started playing i tried adding charcoal and it didnt work i had to look at what Corundum was ahh i was such a noob

the term "Dragon" is from the Greek word "Drakon" which refers to a horned serpent originally. So yeah, someone wants to call a Wyrm, Wyvern, Lungwong, Ryu, Piesei*sp*, ect... a dragon, just let it go. Its just like "demon" or "vampire" lots of things called that, that don't fit the original definition.

64.141.98.5 wrote:do trolls live above ground and not die during the day? do people live forever? are children etheral? does earth have two moons? nirn is not earth, meaning mythology is not the same.

I am not sure where you are taking people living forever on Nirm or in Skyrim though. NPCs tend to die for no appearent reason, not often though. Most of the time they die in bandit raids, dragon or vampire attacks. However, there is posibility to see a person in healty health at one time, and the next time you come in town you get an inheritance letter. Happened to me twice. I had Utchgard the Unbroken as Steward at Lakeview Manor and there was definetly no sighns of bandit attack or anything before, or after my character came back home. All of the sudden I recieve inheritence letter and she's gone. Next time it was with father Shatter Shileld, I still had to bring him the amulet of arkay and I've seen him alive right before I went into Calixto's house for a talk. As soon as I come out, the quest with amulet of Arkay is failed and a courier brings me you know what. So appearantly, not all what you said over there is truth even on Nirn, but I see your point there. Perhaps you meant a player character by living forever, not npcs.

Dragons in Skyrim are actually Wyverns, meaning that the dragonborn is actually a Wyvern born, and that the dragon language is Wyvern language, also the Wyvernborn cant absorb dragon souls, only Wyvern souls, and that the blades are not dragon hunters, but Wyvern hunters, also, Akatosh, the god of time, Its not a Dragon but a Wyvern, and that Olaf One-Eye didnt captured a Dragon in Dragonsreach, but a Wyvern, and that the dragon bone armor its actually Wyvern Bone Armor, and that dragons have never existed in Tamriel, only Wyverns."

This guy ^

Dragons are Actually Wyverms.. that's true.

However, it must be noted that Nirn and Earth's mythology are not the same, and that they could have just re-named them. And "Dragon" is a word more known than "Wyvern".

On an unrelated note, when you type in "Dragon" and "Wyvern" on Scribblenauts they share the same sprite.

The game still can freeze on you no matter where you play it. I though that was only the disk game thing, but now I have downloaded Skyrim on x box 360, and it still freezes on me from time to time. Does it even makes any sense? Can something freeze if it downloaded already? I just might not know how this things work entirely, but still hard to make sense of.

Here's how it works. There are three groups of dragons.True dragons, legged wyrms and wyrms.True dragon have wings and at least 2 legs.Wyrms are draggons with no legs or wings.legged wyrms are wyrms with legs.True dragons are the smallest, then legged wyrms, then normal wyrms.

2.223.1.132 wrote:Bethesda I hope you have noticed that your DRAGONS are actually Wyverns, who agrees with me!

if you dont, look on google images, type in, "Wyvern" then type in "Dragon" then "skyrim dragon"

now you ee what I mean!

Hey, 2.223.1.132, I hope you relize that Wyverns are a spieses of Dragon, and also the largest.

OBJECTION!

Wyverns are a different species altogether. Wyverns have no forelimbs, and instead use their talons on the tip of their wings to kind of "crawl around" Wyverns are also disticntly smaller, and are not known to reside in caves or dungeons, rather they simply rest on open fields, clearings.

"and also the largest"

OBJECTION!

It is shown in many literary arts, artworks, stories etc. that Dragons are known to be as big as mountains. Wyverns on the other hand, cannot grow larger than a two-story house.

I left this thread behind weeks ago . . . maybe a couple months . . . and it's still being argued? When I had left it appeared everyone was finally getting to a point where we could agree that a Dragon is whatever the fantasy world it lives in wants it to be. On Nirn, dragons are exactly as they should be. If they come out with a four-legged, two-winged creature they might give it a new name - maybe it'll be a lesser deadra of some sort. But here's a though, and I could just be crazy, why don't we let Bethesda name the stuff and we just play it? Nirn and Earth, Mundus and Reality, Apples and Oranges . . . just saying.

Lord Hadron wrote:Here's how it works. It's all made up, Dragons, Wyverns, Wyrms, it's all made up. Don't get all hyped up over something being incorrect, when it's not real.

What's next? Complaining about how realistic the Vampires and Werewolves are in Skyrim, even though they're not real!

Actually, it may not be made up, it could be the case of missidentification. When ancient people would uncover giant bones and try to assemble the skeleton. They would think that they found Dragon and Giant bones. Now we know that those were just dinosaurs and prehistoric mamals. But who knows, maybe Dragons were some extinct creatures that used to live on earth. And maybe, just maybe they didn't all went extinct. At least marine kind, you know, we know about deep ocean less then we know about deep space. There were many people who actually gone to space ever since space exploration became possible, but only few had ever descended to the very bottom of the ocean ever since that became possible. Who can really tell what exactly lurks there? And don't get me started on unexplained murders in French country site, in 1700s, that allegedly were done by an unknown animal, worst then a wolf. How do you think the original, children story "Red Riding Hood" really sounded like? Let's just say the recent movie of "Red Riding Hood" is closer to the original story then the version for children.

Not exactly in that sense, although there is a possibility for that too. I was just talking about dragons in general. Some historians believe that ancient people though that dragons, grifins, giants, etc. were real when they found giant skeletons. That was before people knew that millions of years ago, earth was dominated by dinosours. In Greece they find ancient graves, where giant bones are arranged like human remains. They believe that ancient Greeks, upon finding Mamoth or Mastadon skeletons, though that those are remains of their mystical heroes that were larger then life. Naturally they burried them with all the honors, in giant stone sarcafagi and called them graves of their heroes. Just like that, Mastadon's skull, with a hole for a snout, could easily be mistaken for a Cyclop's skull by ancient Greeks. All I was saying that there is a basis for Mythological creature somewhere, there is also a possibility that there were ancient, dinosour like creatures that looked exactly like Dragons. It is is not quite right to say that they are just made up. There might have been a case of missidentification of remains by the ancients, but it doesn't mean that those creatures were plots of their overactive imagination an fantasy. We also cannot dissmiss anything as a known fact, not even sience can explain everything that's happening.

You still don't get it, Elder Scrolls universe is different, almost anything possible there. I was just making a point for those that say that all of that made up in our world. In our world, ancients had basis to believe mythological creatures were real, it wasn't just their fantasy and imagination.

It's hard for me to follow your sentence progression. I have a really hard time deciphering what you mean sometimes if your posts are too long. It's al good though, I'm with you now. I thought your stance was made about Nirn and the TES universe, as that's what the thread was about originally.

Well, unless it's a dead subject. I witnessed myself how PsijicThief had kept on Doctor Who conversation, in Dwemer DLC topic. Speaking of which, I just put two and two together, there is a mod that puts Tardis in Skyrim and on the inside, it looks like Dwemer technology. Appearantly, it can take you to any, random Dragon Wall, so saves you trouble discovering them on foot. Perhaps that's where the whole Tardis discussion started in that tread. Oh great...you better not do it here too! lol

Dragons are an order of creature all their own, and the Wyvern is a class within the dragon order, as well as the dragons we know, the skyrim dragons must be a completely different species of dragaon than the either wyvern or (western)dragons.

Dragons are an order of creature all their own, and the Wyvern is a class within the dragon order, as well as the dragons we know, the skyrim dragons must be a completely different species of dragaon than the either wyvern or (western)dragons.

Dragons are Technically under lizards, but other than that, your argument is flawless.

219.77.144.195 wrote:If your being killed by something, does it matter if it's Dragon, a Wyvern, a Wyrm or a Flying Snake? Just run away!

It does matter!

You can weigh your chances, if you can survive the attack, your chances of getting away, or chances of killing it first.

Being killed by a Flying Snake is not possible at all.

Most species of Gliding (Flying) Snakes usually just glide from tree to tree, eating small animals. They could not take down a human, unless they disobey their food chain and are in a large enough group.

Wyrms are gigantic-ass snakes, right? then you can get to higher ground, escape that way. Kill it from afar.

Skyrim dragons are Dovah. Come to think of it it's humans who called them Dragons, they don't call themselfs that. They are immortal beings, created by Akatosh long before there were any humans. They are bestial, yet inteligent, they got masive teeth, talons and impragnable scales; yet their best weapon is their Thum. The only thing they afraid, is a Dovahkin or Dragonborn in human tongue. A Dovah, born in the body of mortal, who can absorb the Dovah's soul with their knowledge, when they defeat them. Like that, Dovah siezes to exist for good. I am guessing their father Akatosh at some point decided to exercise some degree of control over his unrully children, who tough they can rule over mortals. That's is when he gave a gift of Dovah soul and blood to selected mortals. There are no more then one Dovahkin in an era and when they do appear, they usually end up becomming great leaders of mortals. Ofcourse, that's all is true, if you belive Shody Cast Elder Scroll Lore Series and their latest You Tube episode about Dragons. Or should we truly call them Dovah and assume that they are nither Dragons or Wyverns? Perhaps only this will solve this argument.

Well, Legate, I hope that settles it down some, as I couldn't agree more. I also watch my fair share of ShoddyCast, they do their research and try to ensure it's a good set of information they're reporting to you. Well put on the point of it's the mortal races calling them Dragons, if I may paraphrase a great man from our own history:

"What is in a name? Is a Dovah by any other name not as fearsome and fire-breathy?"

As many people have pointed out Wyverns are a type of dragon, just as the Oriental dragon (a legless serpent sometimes depicted with antlers) is a dragon. It also goes along with it taking place in Skyrim since it and it's people are based off Scandinavia (Vikings Land) and wyverns had a place in Nordic (the real one not Nirn one) culture.

...And in Skyrim, this Nordic people is portrayed as being warriors that drink, that smell of sweat and their breath reeks of Ale, and they enjoy sharing stories about anything over a warm campfire at night with fellow mates. And these Scandinavians are quite racist to any that doesn't share their religion, culture and nationality.

Technically they aren't really 'racist', I can see where the confusion would come in. They're nationalists, they're 'Skyrim for the Nords, by the Nords', they want to control their own land instead of the Mer that they have fought for countless generations, they don't like their land being invaded by said Mer (even if said invasion is a resettling of refugees), they don't much care what your religion is as long as you don't start mucking theirs up (Aldmeri Dominion, looking at you), they don't much care what nation you're from, either. This doesn't make them racist, this makes them passionate and powerful Nationalists and Exclusionists, if they were truly racist you wouldn't be allowed to fight alongside them in the Civil War questline if you weren't Nord.

Yes, that's where first Europeans discovered America, no not Columbus in 1492! The Vikings in, I belive 5th century AD? They first discovered Greenland (Appearanly it was really green back then) and then they explored Canadian coasline, probably arround Newfoundland. That is probably how the area got it's name too. Funny thing Iceland, isn't really icy today, due to volcanic activities on the island, while Greenland, is really icy and snowy today. That probably the result of little ice age from around the time of Dark Ages. What do you think caused Dark Ages in Europe, that I guess were litterly dark? There was a small scale ice age at that time, not enough sun light got to the earth, crops died, famine issued, then the Plague. Now they say all that happened because of little Ice Age and today we see the results in the fact that Greenland is covered in ice and volcanoes of Iceland probably what blocked out the sun in the first place.

65.185.113.93 wrote:You people realise they could be called Turtles in the Elder Scroll lore and that would make them Turtles. It's a compleatly different universe than ours. Not all things are the same.

And you idiots that think we're strange for pointing shit out, should realize that the thread title would be, Skyrim Turtles are actually Wyverns.

65.185.113.93 wrote:You people realise they could be called Turtles in the Elder Scroll lore and that would make them Turtles. It's a compleatly different universe than ours. Not all things are the same.

And you idiots that think we're strange for pointing shit out, should realize that the thread title would be, Skyrim Turtles are actually Wyverns.

i mean the blades becoming wyvern hunters no since the begining o the blades they slay dragons ok !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

we only accept dragon pepole not wyvern must have dragon priest mask no konahrik he the leader aka me the new konahrik

finaly the dragons are not our friends but we can tame them so lets kill some and tame some watch thse channels they good minecraft universe skydoesminecraft deadlox antvenom firerockerz studio and dartron thank you cult and remember get dragonscale armor light armor means light on your feat Peace out

88.244.78.239 wrote:finaly the dragons are not our friends but we can tame them so lets kill some and tame some watch thse channels they good minecraft universe skydoesminecraft deadlox antvenom firerockerz studio and dartron thank you cult and remember get dragonscale armor light armor means light on your feat Peace out

People still arguing about this? I though me and Pjicic Thief made it perfectly clear that Skyrim Dragons are not Dragons or Wyeverns. Dragons is what mortals called them, they call themselves Dovah. So it's irralevant what they look like. Are you guys going to argue also about how Elder Scrolls Dwarves should be little people with short legs, big muscular torsoes and beards? Even though everyone should know that Elder Scrolls Dwarves aren't actually Dwarves, but Dwemer. Yes they lived underground, yes they were good miners and tinkeres, they might even had beards. However, they were not small! They were more like Chimer, meaning that they probably were the size of Dunmer today, average size. Mortals called them Dwarves because of the incident when Dwemer fought a giant and to giant they were Dwarves. However, that information besides the point. I just wanted to show you how it irrelavant to argue weather or not they look like something else and called a different thing. We need to take in consideration, what those parties in Elder Scrolls call themselves, not what foolish mortals call them there. Did I make myself clear enough?

spork i have a team and we hate pepole saying stuff aout skyrim dragons there my teams friends not anyone elses and we team up to help them aroud skyrim and pepole make fu of dragons ad how easy koahrik is to get konahrik is dead because he kill himself to save and skyrim he was a hero my team got him i one day because we work hard so if u or anyone want to join my cult like one of my comments and u run faster with light armor didnt u know that legate alexadros id very smart and dovah i call them dragons because of the dragon priests legate if u read this like it and become a dovah cultist lieutenant ur smart so u deserve that rank if u like this

Dragons in Skyrim are actually Wyverns, meaning that the dragonborn is actually a Wyvern born, and that the dragon language is Wyvern language, also the Wyvernborn cant absorb dragon souls, only Wyvern souls, and that the blades are not dragon hunters, but Wyvern hunters, also, Akatosh, the god of time, Its not a Dragon but a Wyvern, and that Olaf One-Eye didnt captured a Dragon in Dragonsreach, but a Wyvern, and that the dragon bone armor its actually Wyvern Bone Armor, and that dragons have never existed in Tamriel, only Wyverns."

Triva: This isn't real world mythology the dragons in skyrim are dragon in the lore. These dragons should not be compared to wyverns of the real world.

Well then I am a Nord, I was born in Northern Europe. Well Baltic region of Russia, the city that is known as St. Petersburg today and back then Leningrad. And again, we have been over the diference of dragons and wyeverns before and how it was too hard for Besedtha to make them look like true dragons. But I said it twice before, and I will say it now for all who didn't hear. Only foolish mortals call them dragons, they call themselves dovah. Shouldn't this have ended the argument? Even Pjicic Thief though so.

Legate Alexandros wrote:Well then I am a Nord, I was born in Northern Europe. Well Baltic region of Russia, the city that is known as St. Petersburg today and back then Leningrad. And again, we have been over the diference of dragons and wyeverns before and how it was too hard for Besedtha to make them look like true dragons. But I said it twice before, and I will say it now for all who didn't hear. Only foolish mortals call them dragons, they call themselves dovah. Shouldn't this have ended the argument? Even Pjicic Thief though so.

Yes, they are Dovah, only the mortals call them Dragons; but the argument has somewhat evolved into "what the mortals should call them when refering to their own legends about the dovah"

2.223.1.132 wrote:Bethesda I hope you have noticed that your DRAGONS are actually Wyverns, who agrees with me!

if you dont, look on google images, type in, "Wyvern" then type in "Dragon" then "skyrim dragon"

now you ee what I mean!

Hey, 2.223.1.132, I hope you relize that Wyverns are a spieses of Dragon, and also the largest.

OBJECTION!

Wyverns are a different species altogether. Wyverns have no forelimbs, and instead use their talons on the tip of their wings to kind of "crawl around" Wyverns are also disticntly smaller, and are not known to reside in caves or dungeons, rather they simply rest on open fields, clearings.

"and also the largest"

OBJECTION!

It is shown in many literary arts, artworks, stories etc. that Dragons are known to be as big as mountains. Wyverns on the other hand, cannot grow larger than a two-story house.

"spieses"

OBJECTION!

species*

There are many species of dragons, and even those ones have diffrent kinds. I belive the Wyvern you are thinking of is the Pgmy Wyvern.

Dragons are an order of creature all their own, and the Wyvern is a class within the dragon order, as well as the dragons we know, the skyrim dragons must be a completely different species of dragaon than the either wyvern or (western)dragons.

YES!!!! Finaly, someone with a brain! Wyverns are dragons, Wyrm are dragons!

Azaisya wrote:I guess that's true. I asked all my friends and family and nobody knew what a wyvern was except for my close friend, but she's a fantasy nerd like me. I guess their language is just a lot like English. Another planet? I think it's kinda like back in time. . .except back then, it was normal for their to be vampires and stuff. . .until a meteorite hit the earth. . .again.

There's 2 moons. Nirn is NOT Earth.

I guess you could say that. . .but I've only seen one moon.

Yeah, Nirn has 2 moons, a big red one and a smaller white one, but I don't know their names. Next time I see both, I'll capture a picture and post it... wait... never mind, I'm sure I can find something on the internet. Here we go. From this picture you can see that the smaller white moon is closer than the large red one. I imagine that with moons like these Nirn's seas would have HUGE swings between low tide and high tide.

The red one is actually Oblivion and the white one is the moon. At least I'm pretty sure it is Oblivion.

I am not sure if Miser is Oblivion or even gate way to Oblivion. From what I gathered from Elder Scrolls Universe, all the planes of Oblivion located within the Void. The way they depicted the Universe, is like a circle, separated in two halves. The one above being Autherius, the one below is being Void. Mondus is smacked right in the center of those, in the shape of smaller circle. Nirn's sun supposed to be a gateway into Autherius, but I don't think Miser supposed to be a gateway into Void or Oblivion. I do know that some belive that Miser (the big red moon) is a different planet all together, since Secunda (the small white moon) is actually revolving around Miser. Since Nirn is actually center of that planetary system, Miser revolves around it too, like other planets. So it is hard to say weather Miser revolves around Nirn because it's it's moon, or because it's a different planet. Oh and in case you were wondering, Sovenguarde is a realm within Autherius, just like Oblivion planes are realms within the Void.

You right he is not, but Daedra came from his blood only. He is the father of all Daedra. At the very begining, Anu and Padomay had a sort of a fight and they spilled each other's blood. The mixed blood of Anu and Padomay became Aedra and capable of both good and evil. The blood of Padomay or Sithis became Daedra who are only capable of evil (exept few). This fight also has resulted in creation of everything in the Universe, except for Mondus. Anu created Autherius for Aedra, while Padomay or Sithis created Void for Daedra. They say Anu sacraficed his entire body to create everything he created, an does not exist anymore in physical form. However, Padomay or Sithis, is still somewhere in the Void. They also say that many reveare Padomay more then Anu, since it was his actions that gave start to the first creation. Later one of the Aedra created by him and Anu, would trick other Aedra into creating Mondus, the Mortal Plane. That Aedra ofcourse is known as Lorkhan by mer and as Shor by men (well Nords and Atmorans atleast).

If he has no form, then what's with the stain glass image/representaion of him in the Dark Brotherhood Sactuary? If he has no form, and if he can speak to the DB(directly or through the Night Mother) then why not tell them to have a black painting instead, at the very least? It would be like depicting Akatosh as a toad, or Alduin as a normal sized mudcrab, or Sheo as a boring plank of wood. Having no form should be within the comprehension of those on Nirn, so why give him a form that he doesn't have and that goes against the idea of having no form(according to humans).

Not to mention, if he have no form, how the heck he made five children with Night Mother, who later was so sick of them that she sent them back to their father, strait into the Void. I am joking about being sick of them of course. The way I see it, Dark Brotherhood think of Sithis as embodiment of death that comes from them to their victims, that is why they depict him as a skeleton. Also, it is hard to know wheather what Dark Brotherhood belives is true about Sithis. However, I did not go from Dark Brotherhood Lore. Wheterver I said before, I got from the articles on this wikia about Padomay and Anu. Also, somewhere on this wiki I saw their model of the universe beyond Mondus. It clearly showed realms of Oblivion within the Void and Sovenguarde within Autherius, with Mondus smack on the border between Autherius and Void.

You forgot Slavic Zmey Gorynich that comes always with three or multiple of those heads. Dodo is an actual extinct bird that was killed off by Europeans on Mauricius Island, in Indian Ocean in 1700's. I think some of the names you used are the names of actual animals, or natural disasters. Oh and according to some folklore, Basilisk is nothing like the thing from Harry Poter, but rather something like a half reptilian half rooster. It got the head, the wings and the legs of a rooster, on scaled body. Some indigious people in Russia belive that that creature lives in their area and no one who met it lived to tell the tale. The creature from Harry Potter looks more like Aspid, a giant serpant from legends. Oh and when you mentioned Mexican, were you talking about Chupakabra by any chance?

That's creepypasta, not cryptozoology. And try to stay on task. Sithis doesn't have a form or shape because he is beyond that. He is Padomay, one of the first beings to take form in the Beginning Place, similar to the Ideal Masters, who also have no psyichal form. There is no proof that the stain glass window is a representation of Sithis, and even if it was, it's probably the only form they can think of, seeing as how death appeases Sithis although he is not a death god of any sort. A skull would seem rather fitting symbol for one who is appeased by death, yes?

Legate Alexandros wrote:I am not sure if Miser is Oblivion or even gate way to Oblivion. From what I gathered from Elder Scrolls Universe, all the planes of Oblivion located within the Void. The way they depicted the Universe, is like a circle, separated in two halves. The one above being Autherius, the one below is being Void. Mondus is smacked right in the center of those, in the shape of smaller circle. Nirn's sun supposed to be a gateway into Autherius, but I don't think Miser supposed to be a gateway into Void or Oblivion. I do know that some belive that Miser (the big red moon) is a different planet all together, since Secunda (the small white moon) is actually revolving around Miser. Since Nirn is actually center of that planetary system, Miser revolves around it too, like other planets. So it is hard to say weather Miser revolves around Nirn because it's it's moon, or because it's a different planet. Oh and in case you were wondering, Sovenguarde is a realm within Autherius, just like Oblivion planes are realms within the Void.

What the heck is a "Misser"? I can't find anything on it. Do you mean Masser ?

Lab Coat Billy wrote:That's creepypasta, not cryptozoology. And try to stay on task. Sithis doesn't have a form or shape because he is beyond that. He is Padomay, one of the first beings to take form in the Beginning Place, similar to the Ideal Masters, who also have no psyichal form. There is no proof that the stain glass window is a representation of Sithis, and even if it was, it's probably the only form they can think of, seeing as how death appeases Sithis although he is not a death god of any sort. A skull would seem rather fitting symbol for one who is appeased by death, yes?

the ONLY thing that seperates a dragon and a wyvern undeniably is that wyverns have two legs, dragons have four. a lot of other things CAN be different, but thats the only absoloutely neccesary requirement.

But can Wyeverns talk like Dovah, or is Dragon's attack is actually a shout like Dovah? I belive that Skyrim Dovah are combination of both legends of Wyeverns and Dragons in one, that just happen to look like Wyeverns more then Dragons. However, in size they probably would be closer to Dragons. I say, Besedtha combined Wyeverns and Dragons, into what they called Dovah, while in Skyrim everyone call that Dragons. This can be a posibility to, since they realized how hard its going to make a huge, four leged Dragon.

Lab Coat Billy wrote:That's creepypasta, not cryptozoology. And try to stay on task. Sithis doesn't have a form or shape because he is beyond that. He is Padomay, one of the first beings to take form in the Beginning Place, similar to the Ideal Masters, who also have no psyichal form. There is no proof that the stain glass window is a representation of Sithis, and even if it was, it's probably the only form they can think of, seeing as how death appeases Sithis although he is not a death god of any sort. A skull would seem rather fitting symbol for one who is appeased by death, yes?

Do you hate Creepypasta too, Lab Coat Billy?

No, I'm actually quite the fan. I'm just trying to get people to focus. Although according to Rule 25 of the internet, that may be hard.

Legate Alexandros wrote:But can Wyeverns talk like Dovah, or is Dragon's attack is actually a shout like Dovah? I belive that Skyrim Dovah are combination of both legends of Wyeverns and Dragons in one, that just happen to look like Wyeverns more then Dragons. However, in size they probably would be closer to Dragons. I say, Besedtha combined Wyeverns and Dragons, into what they called Dovah, while in Skyrim everyone call that Dragons. This can be a posibility to, since they realized how hard its going to make a huge, four leged Dragon.

listen...

there is litteraly NOTHING that seperates the two besides the amount of legs. a combination of the two is litteraly impossible, except if they are both existent inside the same realm.

there may be differences in certain pieces of games/literature.but those are only within those games/literature! there is NO other difference, unless they both exist. in that case, their might be. but since theirs only one species in skyrim, it HAS to be a wyvern, if it has two legs.

Lab Coat Billy wrote:That's creepypasta, not cryptozoology. And try to stay on task. Sithis doesn't have a form or shape because he is beyond that. He is Padomay, one of the first beings to take form in the Beginning Place, similar to the Ideal Masters, who also have no psyichal form. There is no proof that the stain glass window is a representation of Sithis, and even if it was, it's probably the only form they can think of, seeing as how death appeases Sithis although he is not a death god of any sort. A skull would seem rather fitting symbol for one who is appeased by death, yes?

Do you hate Creepypasta too, Lab Coat Billy?

No, I'm actually quite the fan. I'm just trying to get people to focus. Although according to Rule 25 of the internet, that may be hard.

"Their wings don't have arm-like structures on them." They do in the Monster Hunter Univere. Then again they call a Kirin an Elder Dragon, so it's not the best thing for some examples. However, the series has wyverns with arm-like structures and those without.

"Game developers have different takes on what a wyvern is." The same for what a dragon is, but people will still argue with them that it isn't a dragon.

Due to the location of the wings on the Dragons in Skyrim, they wouldn't be considered wyverns from a mythological standpoint. The wings of Wyverns are always located on the back & they never have forelegs/or wings with arm-like structures that act as forelimbs. Which means the species like Tigrex from MH don't count as wyverns mythologically.

Dragons always have forelegs, but don't always have hind legs or wings. So the ones in Skyrim would count as Dragons.

However, from the view point of the game developers they are what they say they are. Even if they look nothing like dragons. And if you have a problem with it, then too bad.

Off topic: Saying Sithis doesn't have a form or shape, then saying he was one of the first beings to take form...what form did Sithis take? Taking the form, of no form, is the same as never taking a form. Unless Sithis did take on a form, just one beyond the understanding of Humans; in which case the humans are pointlessly trying to give Sithis a form, that is not true to him, as means of convincing themselves that they can understand him.

As someone who enjoys death, and see's the importance it plays in the scheme of things, there is no simple symbol or object that can be used to describe such a thing. Rather a portrait or mural: showing a baby(living) being picked up from a pile of corpses, by a person(gender not important), while a reaper-like figure stands off too the side(opposite of the corpes, with the person and baby in the middle). Have half a sun on both the left and right side of the mural(so that if you put 2 pictures of the mural next to each other the suns would line up making a full sun) and have a moon over the person & baby in the middle. But that's what I'd do, not sure about how Sithis would sum up his feelings of it in a way that does he himself justice.

And I don't really care what Slendy counts as, I only asked to humor you, Warriorcatkid. Although I do lack any real understanding of what it means to "humor" someone. Just not something I care enough about to bother understanding. As for Slendy himself, he's not that bad. I'm far worse than him, especially seeing how he runs from me when ever I see him in a dream.

ArhenMaoDante wrote:"Their wings don't have arm-like structures on them." They do in the Monster Hunter Univere. Then again they call a Kirin an Elder Dragon, so it's not the best thing for some examples. However, the series has wyverns with arm-like structures and those without.

"Game developers have different takes on what a wyvern is." The same for what a dragon is, but people will still argue with them that it isn't a dragon.

Due to the location of the wings on the Dragons in Skyrim, they wouldn't be considered wyverns from a mythological standpoint. The wings of Wyverns are always located on the back & they never have forelegs/or wings with arm-like structures that act as forelimbs. Which means the species like Tigrex from MH don't count as wyverns mythologically.

Dragons always have forelegs, but don't always have hind legs or wings. So the ones in Skyrim would count as Dragons.

However, from the view point of the game developers they are what they say they are. Even if they look nothing like dragons. And if you have a problem with it, then too bad.

Off topic: Saying Sithis doesn't have a form or shape, then saying he was one of the first beings to take form...what form did Sithis take? Taking the form, of no form, is the same as never taking a form. Unless Sithis did take on a form, just one beyond the understanding of Humans; in which case the humans are pointlessly trying to give Sithis a form, that is not true to him, as means of convincing themselves that they can understand him.

As someone who enjoys death, and see's the importance it plays in the scheme of things, there is no simple symbol or object that can be used to describe such a thing. Rather a portrait or mural: showing a baby(living) being picked up from a pile of corpses, by a person(gender not important), while a reaper-like figure stands off too the side(opposite of the corpes, with the person and baby in the middle). Have half a sun on both the left and right side of the mural(so that if you put 2 pictures of the mural next to each other the suns would line up making a full sun) and have a moon over the person & baby in the middle. But that's what I'd do, not sure about how Sithis would sum up his feelings of it in a way that does he himself justice.

And I don't really care what Slendy counts as, I only asked to humor you, Warriorcatkid. Although I do lack any real understanding of what it means to "humor" someone. Just not something I care enough about to bother understanding. As for Slendy himself, he's not that bad. I'm far worse than him, especially seeing how he runs from me when ever I see him in a dream.

Nothing is as weird as Slendy Tubies. By the way what that would be considered, under the same category as Slender Man or Telly Tubies? I once seen a video of two Russians playing Slendy Tubies, they were screaming so much at scarry parts it was too funny. lol

As I described above, they would both be Dragons as far as Mythology goes. In fact that design/form is ussually easy to identify as a Dragon, simply google "asian dragon". They both are desined a bit different(the one from NES more so), but the ones that create them can call them whatever they choose.

"they should actually be thought of as wyverns instead of dragons." Unless Bethessda says that themselves, then no. Also Mythologically, they wouldn't be Wyverns. Their wings would be conssidered forelimbs like the wings of a bat are, and Wyverns don't have forelimbs.

You can personally think i'm wrong and that you are right. However, you can't prove me wrong, especially using something that has only some actual information and even that can be changed to complete bs by any random person who wants to, in other words Wikipedia. You'd actually have to do thorough research of every known account of dragons and see what they have in common, compair them to other serpents like Wyverns & Leviathans, and define them all based on the characteristics they have that the others don't.