Kimbo

No matter what the specifics, I think we would both agree that overseas investment could be either, on balance “good” or “bad”.

But just as when any businesses borrows it depends on

1. the specifics of the deal
2. what they do with the funds
3. the vagaries of events and whether they improve or detract from the initial expectations of the market in which the business operates.

I would consider investment from China in the same category…and when you take the funds the only thing you have immediate control over is the deal specifics you negotiate and then accept. Just as with any other exchange in life.

Which is why I don’t accept your implied premise it is a zero-sum game. The wisest deals are those where both parties win

howitis

Mr_Blobby (676 comments) says:
October 4th, 2015 at 11:03 am
So John Key gets up in the UN and talks about how undemocratic the UN security Council is.
The problem all of his fellow leaders had already left and he spoke to an empty chamber.

…..Correct. The NZ media – who are rather awful – were probably the only ones to report Keys prattle. I guess he knew this – get ‘credence’ at home without upsetting anyone in New York.
Maybe Mr Key needs a new hashtag #ridewithme _Im JohnKey_mywordsareempty

Balance the ledger John-boy by adopting the AU policy of throwing out the rubbish.

Borrowers could still pay interest and the lender could still earn a profit, but the interest rate would not be excessive. The Government and local councils should also take steps to facilitate microfinance schemes in New Zealand.

“Instant” loans provided by text or by vans cruising streets in disadvantaged areas should be banned”.

Awww C-mon

@waikatogirl

My 10sqm of lawn are crap, the boat blocks the sun!

I have thankfully been out of the diary industry for 5 yrs now, 10 yrs ago no-one talked about worm counts or clover nodules, now everyone knows what you are talking about, they are looking for improvements in those areas because it is settled that healthy soil grows good grass which feeds healthy cows.

Every farm in NZ has a nutrient budget that is audited annually.

Some dinosaurs are still doing the same old and need to be improved or removed but that is now a minority thankfully

Jack5

Kimbo posted at 12.09:

The wisest deals are those where both parties win

The words “both parties” (implying just two parties) are important. If a failing company like Silver Fern Farms is saved and China gets a toehold to take control of the NZ meat industry both those parties win. That’s just two parties. Well there’s a third. The foreign-owned banking industry that has been recklessly lending and will sell the country out to cover the losses that it should suffer.

However, what about the millions of other parties in NZ. What about the profitable Alliance which will be squashed by big Chinese money competing for stock?

What about the four million New Zealanders who may not want to be serfs of the Communist Chinese investor barons?

Why, Kimbo, do you assume overseas investment has to be controlling-equity based?

I’d be interested in their reactions to the Brian Gaynor analysis of the Chinese move on Silver Fern Farms (link is below). Points Gaynor makes include that the amount of cash from China is enough to crush the Alliance, which is the Silver Fern Farms competitor and thus give dominance of NZ’s meat industry to China; and that the arrangement includes a casting vote on key issues for the Chinese interests’ co-chairman.
================================================

Interesting issues here.
Essentially Silver fern farms has been broke for as long as I can remember. That its now at the behest of its bankers is the Shareholders fault so don’t blame the bankers. They have some 15000 shareholders who didn’t really care and don’t think properly anyway.

while it looks like a tough deal with the Chinese holding the trump card so to speak the shareholders are going to get a payment for their holding on of about $2300.00.
Now not a big amount but better than nothing.

If SFF had gone broke as was suggested by someone else then the assets would have been picked over and some just scrapped. That would have played into the hands of Alliance and Tallies and others but it would not have grown the farming/meat selling business in the slightest, indeed may have resulted in less competition for meat disadvantaging farmers.

As I see it, with SFF being a lot stronger and with the retail opportunities attached to the deal (800 supermarkets) that will not be the case.
SFF remains in the procurement market and that deal will have profound effects on the procurement and sale of meat.

I read this week that is we sold 16000 tonnes of beef this month (Sept.) it was the most beef NZ have ever sold, over 3 billion dollars of export beef in the last 12 months. This happened just at a time when dairy need to cull seriously and the figures show that.
What is also interesting is that some 50% of that beef went to the USA. So that’s a few million hamburger patties when you add them up.
Patties that really are about just of basic product in terms of value.

When SFF gets into gear they are going for top quality beef cuts and they have said they want to be the worlds quality table meat supplier.

while its easy to be gloomy, the Chinese are no slugs when it comes to making money.

The biggest issues as with all these things are; Transfer pricing, they all do it , jobs and taxation.
The issue with Google, Apple, Uber and all those business models is that the Govt. in each respective country loses its tax base.

The only cure is a financial Transaction Tax.. Yep I know all the smart arses don’t think it will work but it will.

Transfer pricing is alive and well but the IRD need to be able to nail that down. Its also an issue for shareholders.

Jobs, we already know that automation is going to affect that (Alliance are finally spending 100 million to address their plant issues), but when farmers wake up to better pasture and more intensive management that will absorb far more than a few Freezing workers jobs (that are crap jobs anyway) who may possibly be displaced. e.g. more stock mean more truck drivers and so on.

Improving pasture and feed management should be the focus for all of them.
We can all go for a drive and see paddocks that are full of weeds (that stock don’t eat and which smother grass), paddocks that haven’t had a decent till in 30 years, never had a rotated crop of things like Lupins (and yes they are great for nitrogen fixing and soil mulch and worms ).

Easy to drive over and splatter fert around but there are better ways.

Those farmers that stop being having a nioce day and get to work will do really well. as always.

Indeed it might just be the first time our meat industry actually motivates itself towards the customer.

( oh I just remembered that we did have some a few years back. they went broke but had the right idea’s.).

Reid

Reid, a couple of days ago you seemed to delight in announcing your rather unsurprisingly allegiance to the holocaust denial movement.

No I was commenting on the fact it’s a psyop stupidboy. I think it happened and I always have. But it wasn’t the only mass tragedy that’s ever happened however the way it’s presented in society, a martian new to Earth could be forgiven for thinking it was. And by special treatment I mean things like the way the entire Western media treats it, the way it’s got a special place in Western education curricula, and the fact that in many European democracies, you go to prison if you don’t discuss it in ways that conform to the required narrative. All of those self-evident facts indicate psyop to anyone who knows how those things work, which I do.

Hope that helps, but suspect it doesn’t.

I don’t like BTW your nasty little habit of constantly attempting in your childishly naive and petulant way, to put words in other people’s mouths and by unilaterally resurrecting past comments that were made in a certain context several days later when the threads have changed. It’s like you do it on purpose, to deliberately provoke. You really are a nasty piece of work stupidboy, you know that? Many people have commented on that. You know why you get so many downticks? It’s because you do that. I get downticks because I don’t sugarcoat my words and deliberately use insulting language because I want to piss people off because it makes them think, notwithstanding it also pisses them off. You however, get them because you’re dishonest, disengenuous and just generally a most unpleasant KB contributor. You should think about that, but I bet you won’t.

Truth be told, like Jane Fonda, Henry Ford and Charles Lindbergh, a more apt description for Coughlin would be “useful fool”.

But as the moniker “Hanoi Jane” stuck to Fonda, and folks remember the events surrounding it (her support for a Marxist government then engaged in conflict with her own country) I’ll continue to use it for a quasi-Marxist like Jane Kelsey.

As I say, feel free to do the same. Sad as it sounds, it may become my only claim to fame 😉

Disturbance is a common state of affairs across the business landscape as the web radically impacts on previously-privileged sectors like retail, music, film and publishing. But one sector that’s managed to stay blissfully unaffected to date is banking.

The big banks are having a dream run with shares of the main Australian owned outfits having had a stellar three years.

Recent research by PWC found that our biggest five banks made a net profit of $1.69 billion in the three months to June 30, with many reporting record profits over the full year.

Meanwhile, data from ratings agency Moodys suggests New Zealand’s bank profits are significantly higher than banks in Australia as well as many other countries in the OECD.

Simultaneous with these super profits is growing evidence of a hunger for the kind of digital disruption that has delivered better value to consumers in other industries.

Jack5

Kimbo posted at 12.32:

…why do you assume entering into a deal with Chinese financiers is a zero-sum game?

I don’t believe the China-Silver Fern Farms deal is a zero-sum game. I believe its is a negative-sum game. I believe there will be less benefit to NZ than if Silver Fern Farms were liquidated, with Alliance expanding and the surplus bits “rationalised”, that is discarded. That’s how capitalism is supposed to work.

mikenmild

That’s funny Reid.

You accept that the holocaust occurred, because even you can’t argue against such a well-established set of facts.

But you sneak around the edge, labelling it a ‘psy-op’ and seeking to denigrate it as an exceptional crime against humanity. I wonder if you have a theory about why the holocaust is such a prominent event and who might be behind that narrative.

Jack5

Viking22 posted at 12.22 of the China-Silver Fern Farms deal:

while it looks like a tough deal with the Chinese holding the trump card so to speak the shareholders are going to get a payment for their holding on of about $2300.00. Now not a big amount but better than nothing.

What a difference from the 1960s on when go-getting farmers were setting up meat co-operatives as the British began the withdrawal from the NZ economy.

Now NZ farmers (or is it largely Otago farmers) are stampeding to become serf-suppliers to a big overseas power.

NZ better develop some alternative export industries in a rush, or it is economically and politically stuffed.

Kimbo

@ stephieboy

kimbo. oh dear mired in anti catholic conspiracy theories ?

Come on, stephieboy. Can’t you recognise irony?! Like when I quoted at 12:15 Catriona McLennan’s crazy plan to divert KiwBank funds into low-interest loans to folks who currently only qualify for 2nd tier and below lending?

You’d get more value for money piling a big wad of cash up in Aotea Square and setting it alight for heat..cause you ain’t getting it back!

Or are you one of the folks who up-ticked ‘coz you thought it was a good idea? Stephieboy, if they only qualify for 2nd tier and worse lending, there is usually a very good reason…

To keep it simple,Manya Brachear is no more a shill than WND’s nutty founder Joesph Farrah !

Hence my qualifier “irrespective of the opinion being expressed, nor even the topic under discussion, here’s an example of describing a Tokyo Rose as a shill: “. Stephieboy, I know you are willful, but come on. Even for you that piece of deliberate ignorance is pretty bad.

holysheet

Viking said
in china Very high production but short life for the cows. 5-6 years.

Most NZ farmers have cows with a similar life span.
If the average heifer replacements on a dairy farm here is 25% of the herd, then on average they are turning over their herd every 4 years.
The only reason for this is the poor quality of feed these cows must be getting. Farmers replace their cows on production figures supplied by herd testing. Never mind the poor cows trying to produce top quality milk from shit grass that has been boosted by excess nitrogen use.

Black with a Vengeance

stephieboy

kimbo, no I obviously wont comply mired as you are in petulance and confusion. I do not have any interest in your rant about Catriona McLennan’s crazy plans nor your irony therewith. Nor attend any protest at Aotea Square, nor a great deal of interest in Jane Kelsey and her anti TPPA activities that you appear to obsessively have.

Reid

Madame Secretary, a very quick update. I just received confirmation from 60 Minutes that a piece on Julian Assange will air Sunday night. He will be the only person featured. We had made a number of suggestions for outside experts and former diplomats to interview to “balance” the piece. 60 Minutes assures me that they raised a number of questions and concerns we planted with them during the course of the interview…

Amusing first comment in response:

Dear Hell,

60 Minutes is doing a piece on the Pope, would Satan care to offer suggestions so we can balance the interview?

Reid

Bad news Friday:

Imperial America suffered multiple body blows. So did most Republican presidential aspirants in the latest Pew Research poll – conducted from September 22 – 27, based on Republican and Republican-leaning registered voters, indicating they’ll vote in the Republican primary or caucus in their state. More on this below.

First how the empire fared, a time its power brokers would like to forget, symptomatic of a nation in decline, the eventual fate of all empires in history.

Soviet Russia the last one. America’s turn awaits. Lunatics in Washington assure it, a bipartisan criminal class – corrupt, ruthless, lawless. When it goes, it may take us all with it.

A snapshot of what’s happening now. For the first time since Soviet Russia dissolved, America’s imperial project was challenged – Putin waging real war on terrorism, Obama officials frantic about what to do next, daring no more than a war of words accomplishing nothing.

September 30 changed the equation in Syria. It’s too early to tell how things will turn out. Putin is committed. He’s no quitter. He’s got plenty of domestic support.

Addressing the World Economic Forum last January, Russia’s First Deputy Prime Minister, Igor Shuvalov, said Russians steadfastly support their leader.

“Read our history. (They’ll) never give up their leader. We will tighten our belt, eat less food, suffer any privations, but if outsiders want to force changes on us, we will be united as never before.”

It shows in Putin’s overwhelming popularity. Russians trust him for good reason. He says what he means and means what he says – polar opposite Obama’s serial lying…

while it looks like a tough deal with the Chinese holding the trump card so to speak the shareholders are going to get a payment for their holding on of about $2300.00. Now not a big amount but better than nothing.

What a difference from the 1960s on when go-getting farmers were setting up meat co-operatives as the British began the withdrawal from the NZ economy.

Now NZ farmers (or is it largely Otago farmers) are stampeding to become serf-suppliers to a big overseas power.

NZ better develop some alternative export industries in a rush, or it is economically and politically stuffed.

=============================

You asked for other opinions and when they don’t suit your narrative (much like the shareholders) you get all stupid instead of actually looking at the benefits.
If the suppliers don’t like the prices paid then I’m sure they will do what farmers have always done and shop around.
And that’s part of the problem. Failure to meet the retail market with quality consistent supply.

Look at other types of farmers who are now growing product to spec’s and contracts.

Same for timber and all manner of things.
Unless of course you want us Kiwi taxpayers to prop you up and dump your sheep carcases all over again.

This will probably turn the meat industry into a more focused value added business.
Better for everyone.

Reid

Secret Service agents reveal Hillary Clinton is a nightmare to work with

‘GOOD morning, ma’am,” a member of the uniformed Secret Service once greeted Hillary Clinton.

“F— off,” she replied.

That exchange is one among many that active and retired Secret Service agents shared with Ronald Kessler, author of First Family Detail, a compelling look at the intrepid personnel who shield America’s presidents and their families — and those whom they guard.

Kessler writes flatteringly and critically about people in both parties. Regarding the Clintons, Kessler presents Chelsea as a model protectee who respected and appreciated her agents. He describes Bill as a difficult chief executive, but an easygoing ex-president. And Kessler exposes Hillary as an epically abusive Arctic monster.

“When in public, Hillary smiles and acts graciously,” Kessler explains. “As soon as the cameras are gone, her angry personality, nastiness, and imperiousness become evident.”

He adds: “Hillary Clinton can make Richard Nixon look like Mahatma Gandhi.”

Kessler was an investigative reporter with the Wall Street Journal and Washington Post and has penned 19 other books. Among much more in “First Family Detail,” he reports:

“Hillary was very rude to agents, and she didn’t appear to like law enforcement or the military,” former Secret Service agent Lloyd Bulman recalls. “She wouldn’t go over and meet military people or police officers, as most protectees do. She was just really rude to almost everybody. She’d act like she didn’t want you around, like you were beneath her.”

“Hillary didn’t like the military aides wearing their uniforms around the White House,” one former agent remembers. “She asked if they would wear business suits instead. The uniform’s a sign of pride, and they’re proud to wear their uniform. I know that the military was actually really offended by it.”

Former agent Jeff Crane says, “Hillary would cuss at Secret Service drivers for going over bumps.”

Another former member of her detail recollects, “Hillary never talked to us … Most all members of first families would talk to us and smile. She never did that…”

This is of course of no surprise to anyone, except probably to particularly stupid lefties such as stupidboy and mm, who’ll no doubt get all confused and hallucinate that I’ve just made it all up and there really isn’t for example, a “former agent” called Jeff Crane. Won’t you.

freemark

Someone above talking about water quality…
Saw (and had a pleasant interaction with) a couple of young brown boys yesterday catching eels in a stream in the middle of Industrial Heartland Wiri…
Go figure.

Shame that most of you including lefties like stupidboy and mm stand with Bon Jovi too. Always wondered why you can’t see the parallel, when you could see it in South Africa with perfect clarity. Well, actually, I don’t wonder. Another psyop, you see.

Reid

Maybe but he’s also a brilliant poet. Here’s the full letter I couldn’t include in the post above because when I was in edit window someone (guess who) reported an abusive comment. Didn’t you, stupidboy.

Dear Jon Bon Jovi, David Bryan, and Tico Torres,

Often in the past I have written detailed, and sometimes even persuasive, letters to colleagues in the music business, encouraging them not to give succor to the Israeli government’s apartheid policies by performing in Israel. Having read Jon’s comments last week in Yedioth Ahronoth, I won’t waste my time drawing parallels with Apartheid South Africa and the moral stand that so many artists took then and that thousands are taking now in the face of decades of Israeli oppression of Palestinians.

So the die is cast, you are determined to proceed with your gig in Tel Aviv on October 3. You are making your stand.

You stand shoulder to shoulder

With the settler who burned the baby

With the bulldozer driver who crushed Rachel Corrie

With the soldier who shot the soccer player’s feet to bits

With the sailor who shelled the boys on the beach

With the sniper who killed the kid in the green shirt

And the one who emptied his clip into the 13-year-old girl

And the Minister of Justice who called for genocide

You had a chance to stand

On the side of justice

With the pilot who refused to bomb refugee camps

With the teenager who chose eight prison terms over army service

With the prisoner who fasted for 266 days until freedom

With the doctor banned from entry for saving lives

With the farmer who was cut down marching to the wall

With the legless child growing up in the rubble

And the 550 others who won’t grow up at all

Because of the missiles and tank shells and bullets we sent

The dead can’t remind you of the crimes you’ve ignored. But, lest we forget, “To stand by silent and indifferent is the greatest crime of all.”

Roger Waters

In case you’re skeptical, the article has links to all the things he mentions.

But main point was, the reason you don’t equate Israel’s apartheid with South Africa’s is because of the psyop. That’s the point, and that’s why you can’t see the equation, when they are both in fact equal, in every single way.

cha

Reid

To explain the psyop in a bit more detail, the reason you can’t see the equation is because every single time you think about what Israel does to the Palestinians, your subconscious dredges up the thought that poor widdle Iswael is under seige, embattled and defensive and if it wasn’t then it wouldn’t NEED to do what it does. And guess where your subconscious gets that association from? That’s right, the psyop.

Whereas with the South Africans you had none of that decades long manipulation so you were able to see with perfect clarity what one group of people was doing to another group of people, even though South Africa could use the exact same logical arguments that Israel uses to justify its behaviour.

Outnumbered? Check. Vicious, primitive, ruthless enemy? Check.

You see?

But the difference is, that’s a logical equation and therefore your subconscious doesn’t come into it.

Your subconscious only gets involved with emotional elements. But it does so in a way that you don’t even recognise you’re doing it. So you don’t have an emotional surge when your subconscious dredges up an association to a concept you’re consciously considering, rather, it’s a Pavlovian association.

And that’s the psyop. Through decades and decades of manipulation, ever since you were born, your mind has been manipulated without you even realising it, you’ve been inculcated with an emotional association which you dredge up whenever you consciously consider Israel.

That’s how it works.

Fair’s fair.

Except Russia didn’t start it, the UKUSA did. Why on Earth would Russia fund, train and equip terrorists intent on removing it’s major ME ally? Why would it do that? Therefore who DOES fund, train and equip ISIS? Someone does, so who?

Maggy Wassilieff

I’m pleased in one way to learn that every gay person is a “son of God” according to this ex-Vatican priest, but a bit disturbed to realise that daughters don’t figure in this revelation.http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34435087

nasska

….” every single time you think about what Israel does to the Palestinians, your subconscious dredges up the thought that poor widdle Iswael is under seige, embattled and defensive and if it wasn’t then it wouldn’t NEED to do what it does. And guess where your subconscious gets that association from? That’s right, the psyop.”….

There one basic flaw to that argument. A small nation named Israel IS under siege, IS embattled & IS defensive.

No need for the effort or expense of a psyop…..a blind man can see it clear at distance.

nasska

….”So how come the “under seige” argument applies to every single thing that poor widdle Iswael EVER says or does, but it NEVER applied to South Africa?”….

Now it gets interesting. South Africa had a PR problem from the outset. Basically you had a pack of arrogant Boers being all nasty to lovely native black people. The Boers are perhaps the most unlovable subset of the human race & the blacks gained a lot of backing from the race upheavals in the USA of the late 60s through to the 70s. To be black meant extra cuddles were needed & immediately. The socialists, the MSM & students fell over themselves to oblige.

Israel was a different story. When the original settlers were able to spare the time from defending themselves against the murderous thugs who surrounded them they were turning a desert into a large oasis. In a very cunning move they invited young foreign sympathisers to devote a year or two of labour to the cause. Those young people who enjoyed their summers of free love amongst the orange groves are now either the leaders, or associates of the leaders, of the free world.

Kimbo

@ Stephieboy

kimbo, no I obviously wont comply mired as you are in petulance and confusion. I do not have any interest in your rant about Catriona McLennan’s crazy plans nor your irony therewith. Nor attend any protest at Aotea Square, nor a great deal of interest in Jane Kelsey and her anti TPPA activities that you appear to obsessively have.kimbo,” Hanoi “Kelsey ?

Hmm. Well, seeing you initiated our exchange over the subject in the first place:

kimbo,” Hanoi “Kelsey ? Another rightoid who has a low tolerance threshold for dissenting views ?

…am I to take it that means you don’t like this game any more, so you’ve taken your bat and ball and gone home for a sook?

A word of advice: If you don’t like the answer…don’t ask the question in the first place.

Reid

The question is NOT what evidence is there for determining whether or not South Africa and poor widdle Iswael are, or are not under seige.

The question is, what is the PERCEPTION of that condition amongst the Western population and if those perceptions are different, which they are, then WHY are they different, when logically, on the ground, in reality, there’s not that much difference at all. You can’t possibly tell me with a straight face that a white South African is any safer than an Israeli.

But who gives a fuck, because we’re talking about how a psyop works, not the relative safety or otherwise of South Africans or Israelis.

Now it gets interesting.

No, it doesn’t actually.

I get really really really sick of discussing all things Israel, because the psyop makes it difficult for the people who suffer in it to distinguish plain English from their own internal hallucinations. Which of course, ironically, is another indication there’s a psyop going on, isn’t it.

No need for the effort or expense of a psyop…

Firstly, if one doesn’t even know what it is, how does one know what it entails? Most people who don’t know what they are hallucinate it’s something like WWII or Soviet-era propaganda which only happened then and doesn’t happen here now anymore, because we live in a democwacy and we have a fwee pwess.

Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.

Sadly however, this is not how the world works. One wishes it did for then there would be lollipops and world peace and butterflies and gay dancing breaking out all over the land.

Psyops happen all the time. WTF do you think the US Presidential elections are, for instance? WTF do you think Libya and Syria and Ukraine are? WTF do you think ISIS is?

nasska

Reid

From Wiki:

….”Psychological operations (PSYOP) are planned operations to convey selected information and indicators to audiences to influence their emotions, motives, objective reasoning, and ultimately the behavior of governments, organizations, groups, and individuals”…..

You suggest that the average person thinks a “psyop” is “something like WWII or Soviet-era propaganda”.

How do you see it as differing from normal PR or image management which all bar the mentally retarded see through & discard like McDonalds packaging?

You asked for other opinions and when they don’t suit your narrative (much like the shareholders) you get all stupid instead of actually looking at the benefits.

So your opinion is to be final and absolute, is it Viking2?
==========================

No not at all.
At least I advanced the arguments for the benefits rather than just condemning everything and behaving like Winston.
Perhaps you could question the argument if you don’t follow the thought or understand why.

The Press of 3 October carried yet another story on Ngai Tahu’s continuing successes, this time focussing on its property developments at Wigram Skies, the former air force base.

The CEO of Ngai Tahu Property Limited, Tony Sewell, in responding to people who criticise Ngai Tahu’s income tax exempt status as a charity, stated that he thinks that Maori in New Zealand are easy to criticise for being successful, and in so doing misses the point altogether.

When I lecture my advanced tax students at the University of Canterbury on charities and income tax I make the point that Ngai Tahu is to be congratulated for being so successful, whether or not they are Maori, and that I am not “Maori-bashing.” I also make the point that because a shareholder has charitable status and is therefore exempt from income tax, as also stated by Mr Sewell, why is it then that that status colours the commercial activities undertaken by the shareholding company with the same income tax privilege?

This is not a failing of charity law; it is a failure of tax policy and of successive governments to address the issue.

Since 1967 numerous tax reviews have argued that trading by charities should be taxed. If the commercial activity is not directly related to the charitable purposes of the entity, then it should be liable to income tax, as happens in the UK where this concept dates back to the 1920s.

To explain: a private school charges fees for the provision of education. Under charity law, the advancement of education is one of the four heads of charitable purpose as laid down in the famous Pemsel case in England in 1891. The fees are directly related to advancing education.

What then is the activity in property development that is a related charitable purpose? Are homes for the disadvantaged built at Wigram Skies and provided at minimal cost to the purchaser regardless of race? If so, that falls under Pemsel’s fourth head, public benefit.

However that does not appear to be the case with Ngai Tahu Property, but I will stand corrected if I am wrong.

But when we are talking of property development, there is another issue that needs to be considered. Under the Income Tax Act 2007, dealing in land with the intention of making a profit creates an income tax liability.

The Press article states that Ngai Tahu bought Wigram Aerodrome in 1997 for $16 million. The Press also recently reported that Ngai Tahu Property’s assets have grown from about $3 million to an equity value of $553 million at June 30 2015 with total property assets valued at $700 million.

Clearly Ngai Tahu deals in land with the intention of making a profit. What for-profit property developer could possibly compete against an entity with such a privileged fiscal status?

How is it that such dealing, which has nothing to with charitable purposes other than claiming that as its shareholder has charitable status therefore dealing land is also coloured with that privilege, is not coming under the scrutiny of Inland Revenue?

Dr Michael Gousmett FCIS PhD is an independent researcher and public historian.

Jack5

Re Viking at 4.06:

Yes Ngai Tahu do deserve praise for their astute management of their Treaty settlement grants.

However, they have had more hand-ups than just the tax-free status for their businesses, which compete in tourism and fishing as well as in property. As well as the initial treaty settlement there was the huge top-up when North Island settlements reached a trigger level. Then there is the right – in perpetuity, that is forever – of first and second rights of purchase of South Island crown assets. All negotiated on their behalf by the now Minister of Treaty Negotiations, who got to sign off the top-up he negotiated years earlier.

The tax-free status for charities’ businesses is unfair. The Seventh Day Adventists’ Sanatarium food business is another that benefits from it.

If Ngai Tahu’s businesses were grouped and Ngai Tahu members were shareholders, tax imputation would prevent them from being double taxed, and would put the businesses on equal ground with competitors.

Note to Viking2: You should have put Dr Gousmett’s quote in quotation marks or block quotes, so we wouldn’t confuse it with your thoughts. By the way this remark of yours at 4.02affirms my opinion of you as an arrogant tosser:

Perhaps you could question the argument if you don’t follow the thought or understand why.

Your argument was just the usual unconvincing but dogmatic PR line in favour of Chinese ownership of NZ.

Harriet

(It’s because poor widdle Iswael is under siege, isn’t it. That makes all those things Waters mentioned A-OK, doesn’t it.)

Have you ever listened to yourself when the subject of Israel comes up?

Do you realise how nutso your position is?

You don’t, do you…..”

Yep Reid Israel is under siege —as it has been for ALL of it’s modern 65yr history— and so what Israel does to defend herself is OK – here’s why:

The UN and countries who have in the past protected Israel now instead allow Israel to be pushed into a corner where the same result is seen time and time again; Israel resorting to defending herself by military action, with the UN and others then picking over every minor breach that Israel’s TIRELESS IDF has broken. It’s pathetic.

Any breach against Israel is either dealt with by the UN – or Israel has to deal with it. That’s reality in the world for every country.

The UN isn’t doing it’s job —–as for 65 years Israel has been in a constant state of war because the UN hasn’t dealt with the vast majority of breaches against Israel eg;

13yrs of almost weekly rockets being fired at Israel. 13 long years. That’s from Israel’s 51st year to it’s 62nd year of existance.

Manolo

Vice President Joe Biden is nearing a decision on whether to run for president, and it could come as early as within the next seven to 10 days, according to three people familiar with his deliberations.

Reid

Yep Reid Israel is under siege

But Harriet, that’s never been the question. I’ve never said it wasn’t. We’re not discussing that, at all. We never have been.

As I’ve explained, the psyop is scrambling your circuits. Nasska made exactly the same mistake and for all I know, he still hallucinates we were or are discussing the siege status of poor widdle Iswael.

Man I’m glad I’m not either of you two.

Still, at least even if I was nuts, I wouldn’t know I was, so it’d be OK, I guess.

Harriet

If Israel wasn’t under siege then there would be no problems at all – not one.

It’s just that some people hate Israel and act upon that hate, with the UN doing nothing – and in doing so – only encouraging those who hate Israel to continue to do so. And so, the ‘Palestinian’ children along with other muslim children are taught so. And so, it goes on.

dave_c_

TPP will only benefit “one percent of the one percent”

“The secrecy here is undemocratic and unjust. It leads to big corporations being able to influence the policies and proposals, whereas civil society groups who actually represent the majority of the population are cut out.”

“They’re trying to spin the TPP as something that will improve lives and lift up all ships, but we know not just this part, but other parts of the TPP as well are going to have a negative effect on regular people.”

Perhaps you could question the argument if you don’t follow the thought or understand why.

Your argument was just the usual unconvincing but dogmatic PR line in favour of Chinese ownership of NZ.
============================
well thanks for that. Just proves what I said.
you would rather attack me than my argument.
HMMM. We see plenty of that shit above.

Would you moan if the company was Indian, Yankee, or any other country. Australia perhaps. They have taken over most of our retail and 90% of our banking.

The point really is that “he who has the gold rules” and the Chinese have the gold. The shareholders haven’t or won’t which tells you something yet those same shareholders are the people supplying the Company.

The sharebroker can moan all he likes as well but they have all had a chance to step up and didn’t.

The market is what matters to the company and how it can sell its products. Should they continue to struggle and sell mince paties at low value to USA or should they step up and sell value added meat products to a very big middle class market where the money will be paid.

If you go here and read there are some good views on why it is necessary. Especially from Alliance who will also need to up their game.

Former Reserve Bank (RBNZ) Governor Don Brash is warning the RBNZ is “taking on too much responsibility” regulating banks and insurers, describing the current system as “nuts”.

Speaking at Auckland University Business School on Thursday night, the former RBNZ Governor (1988-2002), National Party and Act Party leader, and current Industrial and Commercial Bank of China (ICBC) NZ chairman, argued the RBNZ’s heavy-handedness over banks and insurers puts it at risk of being liable in the event of a collapse or something going wrong.

“The RBNZ today has been dragged back into the international framework, which I think is seriously flawed,” he said.

“The RBNZ reserves the right to approve every bank director, to access the overall balance of experience in bank boards, to approve every bank CEO, and to approve every first report to a CEO.”

Brash pointed out the RBNZ also gets a lot of information from banks, which isn’t available to the market.

“At that point the RBNZ is taking responsibility for running the bank. Not just the systematically important banks, but every bank,” he said.

igm

dave: If you are so learned in TPP outcomes, why are you not amongst the negotiations. Is it because you have the same political and fiscal doctrine as the pathetic taxpayer leech Kelsey, another over-salaried non-performing public servant?

Reid

As it stands at the moment Prime Minister John Key says the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) isn’t “a very good deal for dairy”.

But despite that the benefits in other areas are more “impressive” than the deal struck under the free trade agreement with China, he said.

“So when I say to New Zealanders, look I’m not going to sign you up to something unless I think it’s in your best interests – I don’t do that by whistling in the wind.”

Yes he fucking does, and is.

Newsflash idiot moron sheeple fuckwits.

This is NOT like a common or garden TPA like China was, because fucking d’oh you idiots, it allows foreign corporations to sue our govt in a separate judicial system for any fucking reason they like. Period.

stigie

Reid

So welcome to no benefits in particular, idiots. Except the crumbs the corporates deem appropriate to drop from the table, celebrated of course by our media idiots, along with appropriate celebs specially flown in for the occasion.

And the sheeple go:

who gives a shit what the morons go, it’s a disaster, so wear it, you fucking idiots, anyway you feel like.

Nookin

There is a story about someone walking thru a graveyard in Vienna when he heard an unusual sound. He stood and listened. It sounded familiar but couldnt quite get it. Then he realised. It was Requiem played backwards. He commented to his companion who shrugged it off. ” That’s just Mozart decomposing” said the companion.

Reminds me of Reid in a way. Not that he was particularly talented in the first place but the decomposition bit fits.

Kimbo

Kimbo / igm – have you got ANY examples of where Professor Jane Kelsey has been factually inaccurate in ANYTHING she has said about the TPPA?

If not – how about dropping the ad hominems and focusing on the issues?

Penny Bright

Fair enough question, Penny – and one I’ll answer with a couple of questions:

What are your criteria for distinguishing fact from opinion? It’s just that, IMHO, you’ve often confused the two, and have used stridency and persistence to try and muddy the waters. In other words, try your consciousness-raising mind-fuck with someone else, ‘coz I ain’t buying, you nasty trouble-making class-warfare totting troll.

Even more to the point, as Kelsey (and you too, for that matter) are hardcore Marxist ideologues adhering to a system that, of its very design, does not allow any means of falsification as per Karl Popper’s dictum, what would you suggest would be the objectively agreed test of Kelsey’s inaccuracy?

cha

deadrightkev

“Why are we so keen to sign a deal that gives away our national sovereignty, when we’re signing up to a dying alliance?”

John Key and Helen Clarks masters at the UN have directed that to happen. You have to be thick not to see what is going on here with the TPPA. All of these useless sycophants on KB that think the sun shines out of Keys arse and pretend they abhor Clark are total fuckwits that would not have a clue which way is up.

How can anyone on KB support a prime minister that has not only taken on all of a left wing prime ministers socialist policies but enhanced her socialism and debt levels even more? She must be pissing herself. What drongos you brainless lot are.