dobugabumaru said:From the id designed iwads, E4M2 & E4M6 > anything else for me, largely due to the damaging floor in both levels that makes fighting any enemies a pain. Nothing in Doom 1 or Doom 2 touch the frustration I've experienced from those.

:O

Two of my favorite levels! (Admittedly, I too listed E4M2 as a frustrating level, but a brilliant and fun one nonetheless... IMO.

E3M5 - I always have troubles to identify the correct teleporter to the small outdoor room.
E3M7 - Quite similar to E3M5, I keep failing to identify the correct teleporter to certain places.
E4M1 - This map is too damn hard without any health pickups, and there's not enough ammo to kill everything without any infighting or monsters pack in groups.
E4M2 - Perfect Hatred, the beginning is shit.
E4M6 - Probably the hardest map in Ultimate Doom.

For Doom 2:

Map24 - I hate the chasm!
Map29 - Hitscans!!!!!!!!

For TNT:

Map02 - The beginning is as hard as hell!
Map04 - Hard map, the wormhole is a total hell!
Map11 - Much worse than E2M2, the crate maze also includes going up and down!
Map15 - I always have troubles on secrets and monsters who guard on secret exit.
Map21 - This map is way too huge and it's quite tough.
Map22 - I really hate that maze!
Map24 - Maybe the hardest map of TNT though it's a small quarry.

For Plutonia:

Map09 - The circular exit room is a total hell because of revenants and mancubus attack.
Map11 - I hate the maze though killing the archviles is fun!
Map12 - Very tough map, a lot of hitscans.
Map20 - The spiders and an archvile keeps teleporting away!!!
Map25 - The HK trap is tricky!

DoomUK said:
Personally I think Final Doom and Doom 64 are also compulsory playing, whether you like them or not.

Problem with Doom 64 is that there's no real option to get it on modern hardware that is both convenient, safe, and legit. Sure, there is Doom64 EX, but the IWAD is another matter.

You can hunt eBay and Craigslist and whatever to look for the original cartridge, and then see how you can extract the ROM from it. That's not convenient, nor safe (you might end up with a fake/broken/never delivered cartridge). Or you can warez the ROM, which is equally unsafe and more importantly illegal.

Gez said:
Problem with Doom 64 is that there's no real option to get it on modern hardware that is both convenient, safe, and legit. Sure, there is Doom64 EX, but the IWAD is another matter.

You can hunt eBay and Craigslist and whatever to look for the original cartridge, and then see how you can extract the ROM from it. That's not convenient, nor safe (you might end up with a fake/broken/never delivered cartridge). Or you can warez the ROM, which is equally unsafe and more importantly illegal.

I'm not going to get into details about how I came across my Doom64 IWAD (I do own a 100% legal cartridge, before anyone turns up at my house with torches and pitchforks). However, it's always baffled me why there was never an official PC version which would make all of this moot. I don't know how many units were sold but it can't have been one of the less popular N64 games, and there was surely a market for a PC version at the time even if Doom wasn't as "fashionable" as it might have been a couple of years previously.

I'm going to agree with both Tricks and Traps and The Chasm. That exit in Tricks and Traps is evil and the narrow walkways in The Chasm are just annoying (it's a shame because the overall map space is okay, I just wish Sandy did more traditional walkways in place of those).

E3M5 - I always have troubles to identify the correct teleporter to the small outdoor room.
E3M7 - Quite similar to E3M5, I keep failing to identify the correct teleporter to certain places.

E3M5: just follow the blinking light! :-)

E3M7: well it's true that one is trickier, you have to remember which doors take which keys, and where their teleporters go, but there's lots of health and radsuits, so it's not too hard even if you make some mistakes

Xaser said:It still surprises me when I hear of regulars here who haven't cleared out or even completed every IWAD map (well, non-Final Doom anyways). It's pretty much required playing -- You're missing out. :P

No shit. I went for a long time with just shareware and Doom 2, but I've managed to play through everything. I'll never like e2 or e3 though.

e4m2 and e4m6 are my absolute favorite levels. It surprises me to see people naming them as the most frustrating. This coming from a guy that normally hates nukage. For the most part though, in these levels, if you're careful, you can get hurt very little by it. e4m6 kind of feels like trying to find cover in a WWII game. I wish there was a way to make them just a little bit harder than UV.

The original maps that were long and complex bugged the crap out of me.

"The Citadel" was such a chore as you can't save in-game on the PSX, and every time I finished the map (which was about twice ever) I found I'd somehow either missed half the map, or wasn't sure how I'd got to the exit.

"Unholy Cathedral" had an annoying teleporter puzzle. Fair enough, it wasn't too complex, but I want to be blasting monsters, not running round in circles trying to memorise the proper route on a map that was too long anyway.

"The Pit" as well, I purely hated that map and never enjoyed it for a moment.

As for the PC levels, I'm not a fan of many of those unfortunately. "Downtown" and "Industrial Zone"(?) just bored me although I do respect that Downtown is popular.

EDIT: "Club Doom" was frustrating, not because of difficult or complex gameplay, but because there was NO gameplay. That kind of map could only have been done on the PSX, and it was just three rooms including a shitty transparent maze.

MajorRawne said:
EDIT: "Club Doom" was frustrating, not because of difficult or complex gameplay, but because there was NO gameplay. That kind of map could only have been done on the PSX, and it was just three rooms including a shitty transparent maze.

I only found The Mansion and Club Doom within the last 2 years. The Mansion is a great level.
Club Doom I just clear out in about 3 BFG shots. It's a nice idea, but wasn't executed well.

Xaser said:Hmm, having read through things a bit more, I've noticed a slight oddity. Nobody at all has mentioned TNT MAP08. Why has nobody brought up TNT MAP08 until now? D:

THE END ROOM IS LIKE MEGA-SATAN PERSONIFIED AND THEN TURNED INTO A MAP OR SOMETHING.

Okay, can someone please explain me what the hell's so god-awfully horrible about that room?
I've heard time after time about how it's the epitome of shitty level design, but I never really got what's so bad about it.

IMO Titan Manor and Trapped In Titan both had the same problems which none of the other 19 maps had (bar TEETH, obviously) - required secrets, switches which gave no clues as to what they were for, Chaingunner death-traps at every turn and general mid-Nineties cryptic bullshit. Definitely the black sheep of the pack in my eyes.

Also Dark Entries from Doom64. Those turrets are just shite. At least you can get Revenants to stop firing by shooting them.