Santorum: JFK’s Speech on Separation of Church and State Makes Me Want to Puke

As Rick Santorum’s star continues to rise, his rhetoric just keeps getting more and more extreme. Today on ABC News, Santorum said that John F. Kennedy’s famous 1960 speech on the separation of church and state makes him want to puke.

And in Santorum’s opinion, every American should feel just as nauseated as he does.

GOP presidential hopeful Rick Santorum said today that watching John F. Kennedy’s speech to the Baptist ministers in Houston in 1960 made him want to “throw up.”

“To say that people of faith have no role in the public square? You bet that makes you throw up. What kind of country do we live that says only people of non-faith can come into the public square and make their case?” Santorum said.

“That makes me throw up and it should make every American who is seen from the president, someone who is now trying to tell people of faith that you will do what the government says, we are going to impose our values on you, not that you can’t come to the public square and argue against it, but now we’re going to turn around and say we’re going to impose our values from the government on people of faith, which of course is the next logical step when people of faith, at least according to John Kennedy, have no role in the public square,” he said. …

“I don’t believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute. The idea that the church can have no influence or no involvement in the operation of the state is absolutely antithetical to the objectives and vision of our country,” said Santorum. “This is the First Amendment. The First Amendment says the free exercise of religion. That means bringing everybody, people of faith and no faith, into the public square. Kennedy for the first time articulated the vision saying, no, ‘faith is not allowed in the public square. I will keep it separate.’ Go on and read the speech ‘I will have nothing to do with faith. I won’t consult with people of faith.’ It was an absolutist doctrine that was foreign at the time of 1960,” he said.

That's what's killing me. These theocrats like Santorum and Bachmann are literally ruining the brand. Not just "right" or "conservative" or "Republican" but whole swaths of religious and political though.

I'm going from vague memory here, but JFK was the first Catholic to win the presidency. So this speech was much like Romney's speech a while back about Mormonism and the presidency. Essentially he was saying we shouldn't exclude Americans based on their religion. (lots of bigotry towards Catholics at the time out of fear that any Catholic would be beholden to the pope, thus making the US subject to papal law, gosh doesn't that all sound like the Sharia nonsense of late?)

So really, if you reject this speech you are rejecting any religion not your own.

"...look, I’ve gone through it. I went through it at Penn State. You talk to most kids who go to college who are conservatives, and you are singled out, you are ridiculed, you are – I can tell you personally, I know that, you know, we – I went through a process where I was docked for my conservative views."
[Link: livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute, where no Catholic prelate would tell the president (should he be Catholic) how to act, and no Protestant minister would tell his parishioners for whom to vote; where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference; and where no man is denied public office merely because his religion differs from the president who might appoint him or the people who might elect him.

I believe in an America that is officially neither Catholic, Protestant nor Jewish; where no public official either requests or accepts instructions on public policy from the Pope, the National Council of Churches or any other ecclesiastical source; where no religious body seeks to impose its will directly or indirectly upon the general populace or the public acts of its officials; and where religious liberty is so indivisible that an act against one church is treated as an act against all.

For while this year it may be a Catholic against whom the finger of suspicion is pointed, in other years it has been, and may someday be again, a Jew— or a Quaker or a Unitarian or a Baptist. It was Virginia's harassment of Baptist preachers, for example, that helped lead to Jefferson's statute of religious freedom. Today I may be the victim, but tomorrow it may be you — until the whole fabric of our harmonious society is ripped at a time of great national peril.

The free, equal, and undisturbed enjoyment of religious opinion, whatever it may be, and free and decent discussions on any religious subject, is granted and secured; but to revile, with malicious and blasphemous contempt, the religion professed by almost the whole community, is an abuse of that right. Nor are we bound, by any expressions in the constitution, as some have strangely supposed, either not to punish at all, or to punish indiscriminately the like attacks upon the religion of Mahomet or of the Grand Lama; and for this plain reason, that the case assumes that we are a Christian people, and the morality of the country is deeply ingrafted upon Christianity, and not upon the doctrines or worship of those imposters.

The majority of Americans (60% to 76%) identify themselves as Christians, mostly within Protestant and Catholic denominations, accounting for 51% and 25% of the population respectively.[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Santorum is probably betting that he can get this majority to counteract the Supreme Court.

"And always omitting, of course, the statement of the American Bishops in 1948 which strongly endorsed Church-State separation, and which more nearly reflects the views of almost every American Catholic. "
Rick forgets the strong tradition in American Catholicism that embraces church and state separation.

This is the kind of America I believe in, and this is the kind I fought for in the South Pacific, and the kind my brother died for in Europe. No one suggested then that we may have a "divided loyalty," that we did "not believe in liberty," or that we belonged to a disloyal group that threatened the "freedoms for which our forefathers died."

And in fact ,this is the kind of America for which our forefathers died, when they fled here to escape religious test oaths that denied office to members of less favored churches; when they fought for the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and the Virginia Statute of Religious Freedom; and when they fought at the shrine I visited today, the Alamo. For side by side with Bowie and Crockett died McCafferty and Bailey and Carey. But no one knows whether they were Catholic or not, for there was no religious test at the Alamo. -- John F. Kennedy

I suspect that if Rick got harassed for his political views it was probably for being an intolerant asshole in how he expressed them.

My social group in college (mainly engineers and IT guys) were mainly conservative and/or libertarian with a cross-section of religions and social justice beliefs. Discussions about politics and social issues were heated, but generally respectful. And like most discussions of this sort, went around and around in circles.

However, on the other hand, the College Republican Club (or whatever it was actually called at Pitt) was pretty much universally disdained as being a bunch of jackasses with a superiority complex.

It is true that some conservative views will get you 'docked' in college. Conservative views like believing AGW doesn't exist, that evolution isn't true, that separation of church and state doesn't exist. This isn't because the views are conservative, but because they're wrong.

I swear, conservatives like Santorum are the biggest moral relativists of all. For them, as long as something is a personal conviction on the 'conservative' side of the spectrum, it should be above challenge and never be held against the person. It's so wimpy.

It is true that some conservative views will get you 'docked' in college. Conservative views like believing AGW doesn't exist, that evolution isn't true, that separation of church and state doesn't exist. This isn't because the views are conservative, but because they're wrong

I'm going from vague memory here, but JFK was the first Catholic to win the presidency. So this speech was much like Romney's speech a while back about Mormonism and the presidency. Essentially he was saying we shouldn't exclude Americans based on their religion. (lots of bigotry towards Catholics at the time out of fear that any Catholic would be beholden to the pope, thus making the US subject to papal law, gosh doesn't that all sound like the Sharia nonsense of late?)

So really, if you reject this speech you are rejecting any religion not your own.

They'll revert to Catholic bashing if it serves them. I still remember Beck's comments about the church's promotion of social justice being akin to Nazism. Any self respecting Catholic would stay away from Beck's "We're all Catholics" now clap trap.

‏ @fivethirtyeight
67% of Americans think "the First Amendment requires a clear separation of church and state"; 28% do not.

The First Amendment Center conducted a general public survey of attitudes about the First Amendment once again in 2011. The questionnaire was administered to a national sample of 1,006 American adults by telephone. The questionnaire was developed by Dr. Ken Dautrich of The Pert Group and First Amendment Center Executive Director Gene Policinski. The survey was conducted in June 2011.
.....
The number of Americans who believe that the First Amendment requires a clear separation of church and state remains about the same as last year, with 67% agreeing there is a clear separation and 28% disagreeing with the statement.

The problem with many Christians who identify with the so-called "religious right" is that they are long on self-righteousness and short on selflessness, long on callousness and short on compassion, long on intimidation and short on tolerance.

The values and morals of ANY religion have absolutely no place in politics with respect establishing public policy or writing legislation. We need to focus on secular, societal ethical behavior and leave religious morality in the church and within every individual's home. One religion's virtue could be another religion's sin.

We were never a "Christian" nation. Neither are we a "Caucasian" nation or an "Anglo" nation. Although most of the Founding Fathers considered themselves to be religious (some were Christians, others were deists), they also realized the folly of the government attempting to impose a particular religion and its ideology onto the populace.

Spirituality comes in many forms. Whether or not an individual regards themselves as a Christian says nothing about the person's character or value as a human being, nor does it speak to their loyalty and patriotism toward our nation.

The notion that one group of religions is more righteous or more American than any other is contrary to the tenets established by our founding fathers when they endorsed the "separation of church and state" as a fundamental concept in the US Constitution.

I'm having issues with LGF. In IE9 I can't click on any links,the site freezes if I do. In Chrome,when I come here the site will only partially load and I get a little window that pops up telling me something is crashing. Googleads is one,I think a flash player is another one. Then the browser just shuts itself down. I can't log in using Chrome at all. I've run scans for everything I can rub them for,but LGF is the only site I'm having issues with. Is it just me or is anyone else having problems?

LOL Thank Goodness..
I saw Rick on MTP this morning..He really had a poor showing.. He would be a really good 7th grade debater.. The writer from the WAPO just shredded him in her commentary on the panel

The notion that one group of religions is more righteous or more American than any other is contrary to the tenets established by our founding fathers when they endorsed the "separation of church and state" as a fundamental concept in the US Constitution.

That's just it -- religious fanatics like Santorum don't recognize the separation of church and state at all. To them, the idea that there's some sort of divide is judicial activism, liberal tyrants in black robes destroying what the Founders actually intended, which was an openly Christian nation. Or something.

I wish I was kidding, but as Santorum's comments make clear, it's not an isolated worldview.

Every religious fanatic in this country who equates the separation of church and state with tyranny against Christians. That's who. They're convinced that the evil secular gubmint is determined to destroy Christianity because the separation of church and state gets enforced at all.

TROY, MICHIGAN — Rick Santorum’s contention here Saturday that President Obama’s plan to make college more accesible is really a scheme to brainwash people into becoming liberals may have struck some outside observers as a little odd.

But for the tea party crowd gathered here as part of an Americans For Prosperity rally, Santorum’s words about higher education were right on point.

Wow. Just when you think you have heard all that you never expected to hear, he just keeps on giving.

I am however confused. Who says people of faith can't speak?

I think he is confusing speak with dictate.

It's a pander attempt. The little folks' religious freedom to have government and the country succeed by following God's dictates (their version) is being oppressed by the Satan-following Obama and his Anti-American minions.
///

“Where does the social engineering stop?” Clement jumped back in, fired up. “Does it stop after we send everybody to college, or does it stop after we set their curriculum and said, ‘these are the things you’re allowed to study?’ Does it become the Soviet Union?”

And of course it's mostly a load of horse manure coming from Santorum. This is from Obama's 2009 speech:

It is our responsibility as lawmakers and educators to make this system work. But it is the responsibility of every citizen to participate in it. And so tonight, I ask every American to commit to at least one year or more of higher education or career training. This can be community college or a four-year school; vocational training or an apprenticeship. But whatever the training may be, every American will need to get more than a high school diploma. And dropping out of high school is no longer an option. It’s not just quitting on yourself, it’s quitting on your country – and this country needs and values the talents of every American. That is why we will provide the support necessary for you to complete college and meet a new goal: by 2020, America will once again have the highest proportion of college graduates in the world.

I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute, where no Catholic prelate would tell the president (should he be Catholic) how to act, and no Protestant minister would tell his parishioners for whom to vote; where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference; and where no man is denied public office merely because his religion differs from the president who might appoint him or the people who might elect him

Of course Kennedy made this speech to address concerns about a Catholic in the White House who many thought would be taking orders from the Vatican in his decision making. Santorum Seems to think this is a good idea.

“In addition to Rick’s support of ensuring that primary and secondary schools in Pennsylvania are equipped for success, he is equally committed to ensuring the every Pennsylvanian has access to higher education,” the site reads. “Rick Santorum has supported legislative solutions that provide loans, grants, and tax incentives to make higher education more accessible and affordable.”

And of course it's mostly a load of horse manure coming from Santorum. This is from Obama's 2009 speech:

Sounds pretty much like the same speech I got repeatedly growing up from my staunchly Republican parents. Of course, that was long before the party lost its collective mind and purpose other than power for the sake of self and crony enrichment.

I just skimmed the comments on this topic at Hot Air. Even most of the wingnuts understand that Santorum is an unelectable douche. They're a little confused on the Church-State concept but most of them seem to get it on some level.

I just skimmed the comments on this topic at Hot Air. Even most of the wingnuts understand that Santorum is an unelectable douche. They're a little confused on the Church-State concept but most of them seem to get it on some level.

Starting to believe the conspiracists: These clowns are all taking a dive.

I just skimmed the comments on this topic at Hot Air. Even most of the wingnuts understand that Santorum is an unelectable douche. They're a little confused on the Church-State concept but most of them seem to get it on some level.

Starting to believe the conspiracists: These clowns are all taking a dive.

While we have our tinfoil hats on I'll speculate that maybe the GOP establishment is going to push for Sontorum to save Romney for a future run. More Republicans are starting to notice that the party has been pushed off the rails and has little chance for a future with its current course.

I'm having issues with LGF. In IE9 I can't click on any links,the site freezes if I do. In Chrome,when I come here the site will only partially load and I get a little window that pops up telling me something is crashing. Googleads is one,I think a flash player is another one. Then the browser just shuts itself down. I can't log in using Chrome at all. I've run scans for everything I can rub them for,but LGF is the only site I'm having issues with. Is it just me or is anyone else having problems?

I'm having trouble here the last two days with Chrome as well. I'm having to use Firefox.

Profiling the main page with Firebug, I'm seeing some really slow responses from the S7.addthis thingAMaJig, something called "hub" from Twitter, and the Google +1 button calls. They should all be on callbacks so they shouldn't block the rendering of the page, but they do seem to be jamming things up.

Profiling the main page with Firebug, I'm seeing some really slow responses from the S7.addthis thingAMaJig, something called "hub" from Twitter, and the Google +1 button calls. They should all be on callbacks so they shouldn't block the rendering of the page, but they do seem to be jamming things up.

I'm having issues with LGF. In IE9 I can't click on any links,the site freezes if I do. In Chrome,when I come here the site will only partially load and I get a little window that pops up telling me something is crashing. Googleads is one,I think a flash player is another one. Then the browser just shuts itself down. I can't log in using Chrome at all. I've run scans for everything I can rub them for,but LGF is the only site I'm having issues with. Is it just me or is anyone else having problems?

I posted same problem yesterday. For me it's chrome on a WinXP box. (the failures are flash and skype toolbar.)

Tang suggested a virus/malware. I've been pretty diligent about checks but I'm going to do a full check with a pure source in a bit.

I don't suppose this knucklehead realizes that his very own presence in this election is a contradiction to his own claims.

JFK is viewed as the last of the Democratic hawks. Of course, among other things, he got hoodwinked into Vietnam, and he got conned by his generals into intitiating a ballistic missile race, at a time when most of Russia's liquid-fueled rockets would have taken hours to fuel, and when their bombers could not have actually made it to most U.S. targets.

If our government worked the way Frothy wanted, then Catholics would have been marginalized from the US government since the era of the Know-Nothing Party.

The total lack of perspective is amazing. Does anybody remember when the right was fear-mongering about post-modernism in universities? Because it seems like they've embraced the most self-indulgent aspects of that movement to construct their walled-in worldview.

I'm having issues with LGF. In IE9 I can't click on any links,the site freezes if I do. In Chrome,when I come here the site will only partially load and I get a little window that pops up telling me something is crashing. Googleads is one,I think a flash player is another one. Then the browser just shuts itself down. I can't log in using Chrome at all. I've run scans for everything I can rub them for,but LGF is the only site I'm having issues with. Is it just me or is anyone else having problems?

This seems to be a problem that only happens in Windows XP, and it's somehow related to the Adobe Flash Player. I'm still looking into it, but in the meantime if you can use Firefox, that browser seems to work fine in Win XP.

You should consider updating to Windows 7, though -- Win XP is really showing its age, and problems like this are probably just going to get worse as time goes on.

“I don’t believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute. The idea that the church can have no influence or no involvement in the operation of the state is absolutely antithetical to the objectives and vision of our country,” said Santorum Frothy Mixture.

He didn't have a chance in hell anyway, but this paragraph alone is an automatic disqualification for the nomination based on a clear ignorance of the Bill of Rights. What a fucking moron.

The thing most of the conservative christian office holders forget is that you aren't voted into office to fulfill your personal values, instead you are voted into office to represent all of your constituents - not JUST the conservative fundamentalist christian ones.

He didn't have a chance in hell anyway, but this paragraph alone is an automatic disqualification for the nomination based on a clear ignorance of the Bill of Rights. What a fucking moron.

Sadly, there are morons out there who think that these statements by Santorum make him more electable, not less. They'll praise him for speaking the truth and blast anyone who criticizes him as an uninformed heathen who's been corrupted by the evil, secular, liberal education system.

The thing most of the conservative christian office holders forget is that you aren't voted into office to fulfill your personal values, instead you are voted into office to represent all of your constituents - not JUST the conservative fundamentalist christian ones.

But those are all of their constituents. See, anyone who isn't a hyper-conservative Christian fundamentalist isn't worthy of being represented. Now do you understand how the game is played?

The thing most of the conservative christian office holders forget is that you aren't voted into office to fulfill your personal values, instead you are voted into office to represent all of your constituents - not JUST the conservative fundamentalist christian ones.

I think the liberals forget that as well. Gay Republican representatives for example shouldn't be required or expected to govern on a "pro-gay" agenda. They are representing their district not their personal belief system. Obama couldn't be elected if he ran on a "pro-black"/Al Sharpton platform.

He didn't have a chance in hell anyway, but this paragraph alone is an automatic disqualification for the nomination based on a clear ignorance of the Bill of Rights. What a fucking moron.

At this point I'm not sure it's ignorance that leads them--by which I mean all the various stripes of theocrat currently circulating in this nation--to these conclusions about interpreting the Constitution. Rather, they've already decided how the country should work, and now are engaged in sophistry to convince others--and perhaps themselves--that this is how it always should have been. Hence the fetishism of "original intent," et cetera.

Essentially they're approaching the Constitution and the Bill of Rights as gnostic (small g) documents that can only be properly interpreted by a small group of "elect" people. It's eerily similar to the way they twist the contents of the Bible to create Free Market Warrior Jesus & the Gospel of Sharks go to Heaven; Sheep and Goats should STFU and accept their low-caste status.

“Well, let me speak plainly: The United States of America is and must remain a nation of openness to people of all beliefs. Our very unity has been strengthened by this pluralism. That’s how we began; this is how we must always be. The ideals of our country leave no room whatsoever for intolerance, anti-Semitism, or bigotry of any kind — none. The unique thing about America is a wall in our Constitution separating church and state. It guarantees there will never be a state religion in this land, but at the same time it makes sure that every single American is free to choose and practice his or her religious beliefs or to choose no religion at all. Their rights shall not be questioned or violated by the state.” — Remarks at the International Convention of B’nai B’rith, 6 September 1984 (President RONALD WILSON REAGAN)

Karen Santorum, the wife of GOP presidential front-runner Rick Santorum, told talk show host Glenn Beck on Thursday that it is "God's will" that her husband is seeking the presidency though she was initially opposed to the idea.
....
"I did always feel in my heart that God had big plans for Rick," she said. "Eventually it was there, tugging at my heart. When Obamacare passed, that was it. That put the fire in my belly."[Link: www.christianpost.com...]

Insurance companies will now be barred from dropping people from coverage when they get sick. Apparently this is against God's will.

I hear all these people who also think religion has no place anywhere near government. These are the people who remove original crosses and such from seals of cities. Don’t they read the constitution? Our government was based on Gd. Do they really only want atheists in office?

I think the liberals forget that as well. Gay Republican representatives for example shouldn't be required or expected to govern on a "pro-gay" agenda. They are representing their district not their personal belief system. Obama couldn't be elected if he ran on a "pro-black"/Al Sharpton platform.

There's also the factor of acting both as a representative and a leader. part of the latter is a willingness to take flak in pulling and pushing to get the *right* thing done.

Of course there is also this silly issue with what actions are actually "right".

I think the liberals forget that as well. Gay Republican representatives for example shouldn't be required or expected to govern on a "pro-gay" agenda. They are representing their district not their personal belief system. Obama couldn't be elected if he ran on a "pro-black"/Al Sharpton platform.

Perhaps not, but a "pro equal rights" agenda is always a good idea.
One does not need to be so openly against certain groups of people.
Americans dont take kindly to rights being taken away.

Gay Republican representatives for example shouldn't be required or expected to govern on a "pro-gay" agenda. They are representing their district not their personal belief system. Obama couldn't be elected if he ran on a "pro-black"/Al Sharpton platform.

WTF is a "pro-gay" agenda? For that matter, what is "pro-black"?

If you're talking about being in favor of equal rights and civil rights under the law, then yeah. You'd think that people who belong to a minority group would be sympathetic to the idea of being treated as equals under the law.

Hell, I wish they WERE still fixated on Ronald Reagan. The REAL Reagan, not the Christlike figure they've encased in carbonite and mounted on the wall and turned into whatever they want him to be. They've actually shown that they've become willing to trash the real Reagan when they have to. He and Saint Ronnie are different things. Just like they can praise Jesus and ignore 95% of what he (or the people who wrote the Gospels, anyway) had to say.

I think the liberals forget that as well. Gay Republican representatives for example shouldn't be required or expected to govern on a "pro-gay" agenda. They are representing their district not their personal belief system. Obama couldn't be elected if he ran on a "pro-black"/Al Sharpton platform.

You're missing a key difference though. Obama's positions are in fact more pro black than his opposition, the fact that he doesn't overtly run on such a platform doesn't say much when it also happens to be a more effective way for him to advance liberal interests. Gay, atheist, brown and black Republicans on the other hand belong to a party that actively works against their interests, through membership they're tacitly supporting the subversion of their own cause.

The establishment clause clearly states that government cannot be in the business of religion. At the same time it also cannot obstruct the free practice of any or no religion. IOW they can watch but not rule through any preferred religion. Bottom line is that religion stays out of government as is reasonably possible.

I think the liberals forget that as well. Gay Republican representatives for example shouldn't be required or expected to govern on a "pro-gay" agenda. They are representing their district not their personal belief system. Obama couldn't be elected if he ran on a "pro-black"/Al Sharpton platform.

Mmm.

One thing I'd add is that all elected officials are supposed to be cognizant of the basic rights and liberties guaranteed to all citizens, which are not trumped by the wishes of a dominant population bloc or the majority of one's constituency. "Representing your constituency" by promising to deprive others of civil liberties, or by closing down discussion of civil liberty issues such that groups continue to be marginal, is and should be controversial.

What makes me flinch regarding the current direction of US conservatism is how often the platform of social conservatives incorporates just the above: divvying who gets what civil liberties to create de facto layers of citizenship rights.

Gay, atheist, brown and black Republicans on the other hand belong to a party that actively works against their interests, through membership they're tacitly supporting the subversion of their own cause.

A lot of evangelicals think secular government is working against "their own cause". It's not up to me to criticize what somebody else's cause should be. There are Jews who promote antisemitic conspiracy theories about AIPAC and Israel. I find it more constructive to critisize their ideas and leave their ethnicity, religion or sexual preference out of it.

It's a bit hilarious. The same people that are telling people in the Middle East to create secular governments in fear of the Islamists are the same ones that want to create a theocratic Christian state in the USA. They also fail to see the slippery slope of their overt adherence to their Gods and the dismantling of the separation of church and state.

It's a bit hilarious. The same people that are telling people in the Middle East to create secular governments in fear of the Islamists are the same ones that want to create a theocratic Christian state in the USA. They also fail to see the slippery slope of their overt adherence to their Gods and the dismantling of the separation of church and state.

It's a bit hilarious. The same people that are telling people in the Middle East to create secular governments in fear of the Islamists are the same ones that want to create a theocratic Christian state in the USA. They also fail to see the slippery slope of their overt adherence to their Gods and the dismantling of the separation of church and state.

I'm not sure it is just lack of perception. They want Islamists out because they close the ideological market, not because of a broader objection to theocratic influence on the state. Indeed I suspect they're thinking strategically that in a secular nation, they can use money and influence to push their brand of Christianity, and bottom-up push toward their ideology controlling civil governance. That's pretty much what's going down in Uganda.

Basically, there's no governing principle regarding the possibility of a slippery slope, just a tribal differance of their slope versus others....

Sheikh Ali Gomaa, the Grand Mufti of Egypt and one of the world's most respected Islamic jurists, has called for greater dialogue and tolerance over the growing challenges created by the explosive growth of social-networking sites such as Twitter and Facebook.

He spoke out after calls for the execution of a young Saudi journalist over remarks he made about the Prophet Mohammed on Twitter, with Sheikh Ali saying: "We don't kill our sons, we talk to them."

A lot of evangelicals think secular government is working against "their own cause".

So? If it's a theocracy they're after they're right, no hypocrisy there, just an abhorrent view of the role of religion in government.

It's not up to me to criticize what somebody else's cause should be.

Yeah, that's total bullshit. You criticize people's causes all the time, spamming the board with every marginal failure even remotely associated with the occupy movement. You even lied blatantly about the women who were pepper sprayed in order to justify your criticism.

What you mean is that in this particular case your facade of neutrality is more important than criticizing obvious hypocrisy.

There are Jews who promote antisemitic conspiracy theories about AIPAC and Israel. I find it more constructive to critisize their ideas and leave their ethnicity, religion or sexual preference out of it.

LOL, you bring up the meme of the self loathing Jew and then claim that their Jewishness isn't part of the story. I don't buy it. I've never seen people mention Neturai Karta or Satmar's anti-zionism in a way that was free from ethnic and religious context, because it's a relevant part of the story. While they demonstrate the complexity of Jewish and Israeli politics, for many their identity makes their positions in a post Holocaust world all the more difficult to understand.

“Not all folks are gifted in the same way,” Santorum told a crowd of more than 1,000 activists at the Americans for Prosperity forum in Troy, Mich. “Some people have incredible gifts with their hands. Some people have incredible gifts and ... want to work out there making things. President Obama once said he wants everybody in America to go to college. What a snob.”

As the crowd applauded, Santorum continued.

“There are good decent men and women who go out and work hard every day and put their skills to test that aren’t taught by some liberal college professor trying to indoctrinate them,” he said. “Oh, I understand why he wants you to go to college. He wants to remake you in his image. I want to create jobs so people can remake their children into their image, not his.”

Because who needs an affordable college education to get ahead in life when all you need is to do love Jesus and read the Bible?

A police officer with a sticker attached to his helmet by a protester observes an opposition rally called The White Ring, as protesters build a human chain along the Garden Ring road in Moscow, February 26, 2012. Thousands of Russians joined hands to form a ring around Moscow city centre on Sunday in protest against Vladimir Putin's likely return as president in an election next week. The sticker reads, "Boycott elections".

roblimo
1:37 PM CST
I went into the Army instead of going to college. Got an ASEE and worked as en electronics tech, then as a hardware engineer. Am I a snob because I'm a veteran while Santorum and Obama ducked their military obligation? Not really.

Barack Obama, you're welcome in my house (mobile home in Florida). Bring the wife, kids, and dog if you like. We'll put something on the BBQ grill for you. Give us a little notice and our kids & grandkids from Baltimore will come, too.

Rick Santorum, you're a religious loon. I don't think we have anything in common. Sorry.

A Russian woman is thrown in the air as she and others have fun enjoying celebrations of Maslenitsa, or Pancake Week, outside the village of Aksyonovo, some 30 kms (18 miles) east of Moscow, Russia, Sunday, Feb. 26, 2012. Maslenitsa is traditional Russian holiday marking the end of winter that dates back to the pagan times.

Santorum attended Pennsylvania State University for his undergraduate studies, serving as chairman of the university's College Republicans chapter and graduating with a Bachelor of Arts with honors in political science in 1980. He then completed a one-year Master of Business Administration program at the University of Pittsburgh's Joseph M. Katz Graduate School of Business, graduating in 1981. Santorum received a JD with honors from the Dickinson School of Law in 1986.

So he's got a BA, an MBA, and a JD. That's actually one more degree than Barack Obama, since the POTUS has a BA and a JD.

kerryberger
8:42 AM PST
Santorum wants to keep a college education out of the hands of the masses and only available for elitists like him. That is why he calls Obama a snob. In today's economy, a community college or university degree is becoming more and more important. Interestingly, I believe Santorum and other Republican candidates are scared at the statistics of more women graduating from university then men, which means that the reign by white, male politicians is numbered. Mr. Santorum is a fool and a dangerous one. He is not presidential material.

Maslenitsa (Russian: Ма́сленица, Ukrainian: Масниця, Belarusian: Масьленіца, Maślenica, also known as Butter Week, Pancake week or Cheesefare Week), is a Russian, Ukrainian and Belarusian religious and folk holiday. It is celebrated during the last week before Great Lent—that is, the seventh week before Pascha (Easter). Maslenitsa corresponds to the Western Christian Carnival, except that Orthodox Lent begins on a Monday instead of a Wednesday. The Orthodox date of Easter can differ greatly from the Western Christian date. In 2008, for example, Maslenitsa was celebrated from March 2 to March 8 and in 2012 it is celebrated from February 20 to February 26.

Maslenitsa has its origins in both pagan and Christian traditions. In Slavic mythology, Maslenitsa is a sun festival, celebrating the imminent end of the winter.

On the Christian side, Maslenitsa is the last week before the onset of Great Lent. During Maslenitsa week, meat is already forbidden to Orthodox Christians, making it a myasopustnaya nedelya (Russian: мясопустная неделя, English "meat-empty week" or "meat-fast week"). It is the last week during which milk, cheese and other dairy products are permitted, leading to its other name of "Cheese-fare week" or 'Pancake week. During Lent, meat, fish, dairy products and eggs are forbidden. Furthermore, Lent also excludes parties, secular music, dancing and other distractions from the spiritual life. Thus, Maslenitsa represents the last chance to partake of dairy products and those social activities that are not appropriate during the more prayerful, sober and introspective Lenten season.

“The forces of the secular left believe passionately and deeply, and with frankly a religious fervor, in their world view and they will regard what I am saying as a horrifying assault on what they think is the truth,” Gingrich said. “Because their version of the truth is to have a totally neutral government that has no meaning.”

Asked by Stephanopoulos on Sunday about the “indoctrination” comment, Santorum defended the remark, arguing that conservatives are “singled out” and “ridiculed” at most American colleges.

“I mean, you look at the colleges and universities,” Santorum said. “This is not something that’s new for most Americans, is how liberal our colleges and universities are and how many children in fact are – look, I’ve gone through it. I went through it at Penn State.”

“You talk to most kids who go to college who are conservatives, and you are singled out, you are ridiculed, you are — I can tell you personally. . . I went through a process where I was docked for my conservative views. This is sort of a regular routine. You know the statistic . . . that 62 percent of kids who enter college with some sort of faith commitment leave without it. This is not a neutral setting.”

The truth of our faith becomes a matter of ridicule among the infidels if any Catholic, not gifted with the necessary scientific learning, presents as dogma what scientific scrutiny shows to be false.
Thomas Aquinas

His statistic is complete bullshit. Colleges don't produce 62% of atheists out of believers. There's a drop of religious activity while people are in college. Because there's beer and sex and foozball. Some people switch religions. And then they graduate and religious activity picks back up again.

The truth of our faith becomes a matter of ridicule among the infidels if any Catholic, not gifted with the necessary scientific learning, presents as dogma what scientific scrutiny shows to be false.
Thomas Aquinas

What the hell would Thomas Aquinas know? He's probably some snobby European intellectual or something.

A study published 2007 in the journal Social Forces — which PBS reports that Santorum’s claim is based on, although his spokesman didn’t respond to TPM’s request for confirmation — finds that Americans who don’t go to college experience a steeper decline in their religiosity than those who do.
“Contrary to our own and others’ expectations, however, young adults who never enrolled in college are presently the least religious young Americans,” the journal concluded, noting that “64 percent of those currently enrolled in a traditional four-year institution have curbed their attendance habits. Yet, 76 percent of those who never enrolled in college report a decline in religious service attendance

“To say that people of faith have no role in the public square? You bet that makes you throw up. What kind of country do we live that says only people of non-faith can come into the public square and make their case?” Santorum said.

No one has ever said that you dipshit and you know it, nice use of over exaggerated hyperbolic hyperbole though. Sort of like how God has supposedly been Banned! from the nations schools and children aren't allowed prayer or even bible reading on school property.

In this country the government is supposed to follow the Constitution and the decisions made by the courts on matters of law, not your own personal interpretation of the Bible.

I've never used Firefox. Hell,I just got used to Chrome ,lol. I'll try it after I get the family some dinner and stuff.

I finally switched to Firefox from I.E. because of this site a couple of years ago, threads with 600 plus posts would crash I.E. while Firefox worked perfectly even when threads occasionally hit over a thousand posts.

Firefox works with absolutely no problems on about 99.5% of the sites I visit and unlike Chrome I don't have to worry about Google keeping a record of every single site I visit and every link I click while I'm there to target me with more ads themselves and to sell to other advertisers.

Firefox does have one stupid feature though, if you go to a site that causes you to crash/lock-up it will automatically go back there when you open it again after using ctrl-alt-dlt or a reboot to clear the problem, and just crash/lock-up your computer again without even asking your preference of whether to load the old pages or not.

The only way to stop this is to manually edit the Mozilla Config file which is not a very user friendly approach for those who aren't really that comfortable with or knowledgeable about altering programs. I wish the Mozilla team would just add it to the preference menu...

re: #134 Killgore Trout
I am probably not properly understanding your points but to me the left and right causes are no longer balanced.
I don't see high profile democratic political leaders being pro gay or pro black in the same sense that the Republican party is pro Christian.
There are no Democratic pro gay leaders who run on a platform of anti straight or anti white who demonize all straight or all white people.
Sure the white nationalist who have also taken over the modern Republican party have been successful in convincing a lot of people that whites or straights or Christians are the true minority or victims but the ones who fall for it are weak little cowards anyways.

Separation of church and state" (sometimes "wall of separation between church and state") is a phrase used by Thomas Jefferson (in his 1802 letter to the Danbury Baptists) and others expressing an understanding of the intent and function of the Establishment Clause and Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States. The phrase has since been repeatedly cited by the Supreme Court of the United States.

The First Amendment to the United States Constitution provides that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ...." and Article VI specifies that "no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."

You know, even though I no longer adore Reagan like I used to (I voted for the first time for his re-election in 1984), and I know he and his advisors and cabinet members did things while in office that may not have bothered me at the time but do now, I am not ashamed or embarrassed to say I voted for him. For all his faults he certainly had a much better understanding of what America is all about than those today who claim him as their demigod.

Hell, I wish they WERE still fixated on Ronald Reagan. The REAL Reagan, not the Christlike figure they've encased in carbonite and mounted on the wall and turned into whatever they want him to be. They've actually shown that they've become willing to trash the real Reagan when they have to. He and Saint Ronnie are different things. Just like they can praise Jesus and ignore 95% of what he (or the people who wrote the Gospels, anyway) had to say.

Ronald Reagan is like the God Emperor of Mankind, a spirit which is not being allowed to depart from this world as his worshippers bind him in place and twist all his teachings at the same time.

I don't understand how people like him can claim to be a strict constitutionalist?

Ricky is basically saying that the Federalists Papers, Jefferson, Franklin, Locke and lets throw in Joseph Priestly, and Roger Williams to boot, folks who directly and indirectly influenced the ideals which what would become the U.S. Constitution are just wrong. What a sick joke, and as mentioned before, he is basically saying that he will not preserve, protect and defend the Constitution. I can truly not think of anyone more unfit to be the President and any GOPer voting for him should go flog themselves for undermining this country. I'm shocked that this nimrod Sanatarium even got elected to a public office in the first place.

Maybe Rick can go star in a silent film so that we no longer have to hear the garbage that he spews from his speak hole. Oh wait, holes are sinful, corrupting human features that are disgustingly promoted by Obama's desire to subvert Christianity by wanting kids to go to college...uh huh