They both are puppets of the Russian oligarchy. It makes me laugh, when someone says that Putin is a bloody dictator, who killed democracy in Russia

Same here as well. The West is also doing the same bloody thing to "repressive" China as well. In reality, it rarely happens at all and those who do dissent (which is like... less than 1% of population) are beat up harshly (like all Asian countries) and jailed for a couple of years.

Executions however, are a different story. And it makes you wonder...if the punished has done something serious to disrupt the society...

As for US laws here... I find it ridiculous that we freely criticise other countries lavishly and yet, we have one of the most biggest armies and police forces in the world.

_________________"I'll live on...in the hearts of the people I know... It's my own choice now."

Medvedev will do what Putin tells him and Kosovo is contributing to the blowing up of the Balkans.

They both are puppets of the Russian oligarchy. It makes me laugh, when someone says that Putin is a bloody dictator, who killed democracy in Russia

Come now, he spearheaded the "Russian Unity Party" which has had an odd habit of getting elected with an overwhelming majority. Most of the old CPSU guys went to the new Communist Party (CPRF), or the "National Bolsheviks" , don't get me started them...

Point is, Putin spearheaded the creation of the post-Soviet Russian Oligarchy. Now he's got another "Unity" party-liner in office.

eh IMO when you have been under a dictator for 500 years(be it a Tzar or..whatever communist leaders call themselves now a days.) it is hard to go Democratic.

The Russian government is autocratic because of the capitalist oligarchy.

Its autocratic because after Tzars and Dictators its people can no longer think for themselves and must have someone to lead them.

there is nothing better than lies you can tell and nobody can stop youand an enemei then you can hold office for years to come.

putin says there has been significant economic progrees in the last years and has made britan and america an enemei again.

both are lies.

most of the russian economic progress has been withn the already rich wich profit from rising oil prizes and gas. The other is a foney threat created by putin to rais his popularaty, pepole tend to want a strong leader who is in charge in times of danger but the russian pepole don't get to know this since nearly all the countryes media is owend by gazprom and there is a tradition for the president to hold that potition.In all the Russian pepole aren't stupid and vote for a kind of dictator but they simply arnīt informed of what is really happening.

eh IMO when you have been under a dictator for 500 years(be it a Tzar or..whatever communist leaders call themselves now a days.) it is hard to go Democratic.

The Russian government is autocratic because of the capitalist oligarchy.

Its autocratic because after Tzars and Dictators its people can no longer think for themselves and must have someone to lead them.

there is nothing better than lies you can tell and nobody can stop youand an enemei then you can hold office for years to come.

putin says there has been significant economic progrees in the last years and has made britan and america an enemei again.

both are lies.

most of the russian economic progress has been withn the already rich wich profit from rising oil prizes and gas. The other is a foney threat created by putin to rais his popularaty, pepole tend to want a strong leader who is in charge in times of danger but the russian pepole don't get to know this since nearly all the countryes media is owend by gazprom and there is a tradition for the president to hold that potition.In all the Russian pepole aren't stupid and vote for a kind of dictator but they simply arnīt informed of what is really happening.

well it isn't capitalism but a few powerfull men wich were part of the KGBand have privetised all the companyes to theyer friends

And that is capitalism. Else is not just "KGB guys giving things to their friends". Khodorkovskiy was not in the KGB nor was friend of any substantial KGB member, neither Abramovich who besides doesn't even live in Russia but inspite of that is allowed to be the governor of a region.

USSR was a state capitalism, Gorbachyov liberalized it allowing the foundations for the new Oligarchy to be established and after the fall of the Soviet Government all those Oligarchs just rose up.

well it isn't capitalism but a few powerfull men wich were part of the KGBand have privetised all the companyes to theyer friends

And that is capitalism. Else is not just "KGB guys giving things to their friends". Khodorkovskiy was not in the KGB nor was friend of any substantial KGB member, neither Abramovich who besides doesn't even live in Russia but inspite of that is allowed to be the governor of a region.

USSR was a state capitalism, Gorbachyov liberalized it allowing the foundations for the new Oligarchy to be established and after the fall of the Soviet Government all those Oligarchs just rose up.

there is nothing better than lies you can tell and nobody can stop youand an enemei then you can hold office for years to come.

mattabesta wrote:

putin says there has been significant economic progrees in the last years and has made britan and america an enemei again.

both are lies.

On which grounds are both lies?

1. There has been a significan economic raise, even if it's at a ludicrous capitalist level. Wether it is product of rises in the price of gas and oil or not, it doesn't matter the fact is that even within a capitalist framework Russian economy has grown, specially by capitalist standards.

2. Britain and USA being enemies of Russia. Just take a look at history and judge by yourself. From the whole "club of empires" Russia is the only one that has not made some global empire or has relied in some sort of global domination for its progress. USSR, inheriting that empire quality became a great threat for Free-market capitalism by serving as a suporter of 3rd world emancipation, of course, in a very mediocre but real way.

mattabesta wrote:

The other is a foney threat created by putin to rais his popularaty

Which phoney threat?

mattabesta wrote:

pepole tend to want a strong leader who is in charge in times of danger but the russian pepole don't get to know this since nearly all the countryes media is owend by gazprom and there is a tradition for the president to hold that potition.

Ok, so you're arguing that Russians are unable to know that "people want a strong leader who is in charge in times of danger" because most of the media is owned by gazprom and because there's a tradition for the president to hold that position?

How can gazprom owning most of the media make Russians unable to know why and when people want a strong leader? That's like claiming that Russians (or any people) are unable to know but what their media tells them. For your information, people have got criteria and media is not the only information source available. And in this particular case you seem to be speaking about an issue intrinsic to social psychology: Why and when people want some kind of leader... since when is the media responsible of assesing social psychology? Don't you think there are analysts for that in the universities and people that simply by reading and understanding are able to judge this by themselves?

Russians for long have liked strong leaders. And curiously Russia owds much of its progress to strong leaders like Peter I or the Soviet Goverment. It's part of the Russian psyche. And guess what? Humanity does work like that wether the leader is a president, a dictator or a fucking TV actor but most people want to have models to follow, people to deposit responsibility on. And there's people that know better than others how things work. That's why there are leaders and followers, thats why there are bosses and workers. People with notions on how a certain phenomena works are the ones which should lead those benefited or affected by that phenomena.

mattabesta wrote:

In all the Russian pepole aren't stupid and vote for a kind of dictator but they simply arnīt informed of what is really happening.

Really? So why aren't you a good illustrated western free-thinker and tell Russians that you know better than them what is going on in Russia? Or at least, please share your enlightment with us.

Not only isn't Putin any kind of Dictator, he really is popular in Russia.He owds most of this popularity to the Russian Gas and Oil industry, that's right, and to the fact that Russians don't understand well how capitalism works. They don't understand that all the rich capitalist countries are economic empires or vassals of those economic global empires. And more important, to teh fact that Russians don't know the strength of Russian economy.

Last edited by Zealot_Kommunizma on Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:32 pm; edited 2 times in total

there is nothing better than lies you can tell and nobody can stop youand an enemei then you can hold office for years to come.

mattabesta wrote:

putin says there has been significant economic progrees in the last years and has made britan and america an enemei again.

both are lies.

On which grounds are both lies?

1. There has been a significan economic raise, even if it's at a ludicrous capitalist level. Wether it is product of rises in the price of gas and oil or not, it doesn't matter the fact is that even within a capitalist framework Russian economy has grown, specially by capitalist standards.

2. Britain and USA being enemies of Russia. Just take a look at history and judge by yourself. From the whole "club of empires" Russia is the only one that has not made some global empire or has relied in some sort of global domination for its progress. USSR, inheriting that empire quality became a great threat for Free-market capitalism by serving as a suporter of 3rd world emancipation, of course, in a very mediocre but real way.

mattabesta wrote:

The other is a foney threat created by putin to rais his popularaty

Which phoney threat?

mattabesta wrote:

pepole tend to want a strong leader who is in charge in times of danger but the russian pepole don't get to know this since nearly all the countryes media is owend by gazprom and there is a tradition for the president to hold that potition.

Ok, so you're arguing that Russians are unable to know that "people want a strong leader who is in charge in times of danger" because most of the media is owned by gazprom and because there's a tradition for the president to hold that position?

How can gazprom owning most of the media make Russians unable to know why and when people want a strong leader? That's like claiming that Russians (or any people) are unable to know but what their media tells them. For your information, people have got criteria and media is not the only information source available. And in this particular case you seem to be speaking about an issue intrinsic to social psychology: Why and when people want some kind of leader... since when is the media responsible of assesing social psychology? Don't you think there are analysts for that in the universities and people that simply by reading and understanding are able to judge this by themselves?

Russians for long have liked strong leaders. And curiously Russia owds much of its progress to strong leaders like Peter I or the Soviet Goverment. It's part of the Russian psyche. And guess what? Humanity does work like that wether the leader is a president, a dictator or a fucking TV actor but most people want to have models to follow, people to deposit responsibility on. And there's people that know better than others how things work. That's why there are leaders and followers, thats why there are bosses and workers. People with notions on how a certain phenomena works are the ones which should lead those benefited or affected by that phenomena.

mattabesta wrote:

In all the Russian pepole aren't stupid and vote for a kind of dictator but they simply arnīt informed of what is really happening.

Really? So why aren't you a good illustrated western free-thinker and tell Russians that you know better than them what is going on in Russia? Or at least, please share your enlightment with us.

Not only isn't Putin any kind of Dictator, he really is popular in Russia.He owds most of this popularity to the Russian Gas and Oil industry, that's right, and to the fact that Russians don't understand well how capitalism works. They don't understand that all the rich capitalist countries are economic empires or vassals of those economic global empires. And more important, to teh fact that Russians don't know the strength of Russian economy.

you be idiotways to to inform yourself on the subjet.1.read econamyst or some othere major economic paper wich is strictly not communist.2. watch the news, any news you will here the same thing in evry cuntry but russia.3.wiki is exxelent.4.the recent election results.5.watch russian news.6. check how's president of checenya and what he has done to the pepole there.7. the american pepole aren't stupid just filled with propaganda the same with russia.