Unarmed combat and weapon mastery

So, I was thinking on having a fighter that mastered at pummeling. Obviously I could just house rule this, but I like to hear other opinions and the official stance as well. Also what about grappling ? The questions is really for some npc's I am creating but I don't see a reason a player couldn't do this as well. I don't think I would do this for Overbearing or pushing. I guess another way you could look at it is just master of unarmed combat. Not terribly fond of the idea of mastering in unarmed combat mostly because I see the different forms as the "weapon".

Re: Unarmed combat and weapon mastery

All caveats about your game being your game and do what thou wilt is the whole of the law: consider them hereby given.

That said. For PCs, I feel like giving fighters this ability obviates what's special about the monk. There's already a class that specializes in unarmed combat. It's called the monk. In my game, I'd think carefully before giving one class's abilities to another. I'd definitely make the fighter wait till 4th or 8th level and then probably impose some sort of armor penalty, too. You rarely see wrestlers in banded mail.

I do think there's room to interpret the monk's empty hand attack bonus as applying to grappling or overbearing.

To get all mishnaic about it:

"Unarmed Combat: To engage in melee without a weapon."

"Weapon mastery is specific to an individual weapon type."

For NPCs, I don't think there's any reason they have to follow the rules that PCs do (though, again, you could always use monks!). If you want to have a whole degenerate wrestling cult with all sorts of bonuses, go for it!

Re: Unarmed combat and weapon mastery

Handy Haversack wrote:

All caveats about your game being your game and do what thou wilt is the whole of the law: consider them hereby given.

That said. For PCs, I feel like giving fighters this ability obviates what's special about the monk. There's already a class that specializes in unarmed combat. It's called the monk. In my game, I'd think carefully before giving one class's abilities to another. I'd definitely make the fighter wait till 4th or 8th level and then probably impose some sort of armor penalty, too. You rarely see wrestlers in banded mail.

I do think there's room to interpret the monk's empty hand attack bonus as applying to grappling or overbearing.

To get all mishnaic about it:

"Unarmed Combat: To engage in melee without a weapon."

"Weapon mastery is specific to an individual weapon type."

For NPCs, I don't think there's any reason they have to follow the rules that PCs do (though, again, you could always use monks!). If you want to have a whole degenerate wrestling cult with all sorts of bonuses, go for it!

Of course this is why I ask for opinions, It was intended for an npc, I think the only reason I stayed away from the monk was I am planning a a few rounds of increasingly mean pit fighting for one of my players. imagery of barbarians somehow the monk wasn't really fitting in my image. I thought first tier would be unarmed so nobody ends up dead right away lol. I was thinking he would fight a few fighters unarmed then he would have to fight the top fighter who would have an edge but I didn't want to make the top guy a higher level. I could do a monk I think the monk would wipe the floor with him.

I had thought about it being "weapon master" which is part of why I asked. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this.

Re: Unarmed combat and weapon mastery

It's not a house rule I'm crazy about either, for reasons cited by Handy, but it doesn't break the system or anything. However, if I were to allow it, the pugilist or wrestler in question would have to go armourless. I'm more inclined to say the fighter gets better at these techniques naturally through his advancement in fighting ability (FA). I think that's sufficient enough, but like Handy said: Do what thou wilt!