I'm Keith, formerly of the Living Universe Foundation. I retired early at the age of 40 to 'save the universe' (so far so good - the universe still exists...) I blog about finance these days at http://velociraptor.cc Today is my 43rd birthday!

Hello Keith,feel welcome to this forum!You have a very interesting lifeway until now!

I looked a bit over your activities...Unfortunately, my english is not good enough for to understand all aspects.And for to explain what is irritating me about what motivates somebody first work for to save life by expanding it to the universe,and afterwards dealing with "raptor economy":

Isn´t this naming attractive for a specific kind of people?For people who don´t waste many thoughts about ethics?Isn´t their form of economy the activity most dangerous for life?

Surely i understand too less of economy but it is like an ecosystem.Do we have to accept an economic ecosystem of "raptor and prey"?Will such an economy not kill life before it succeded to jump from earth to space?

And for what expand to the stars if life will be there also a never ending struggle against economic terrorism?Is it responsible to contaminate other planetes with our terroristic economy?I ´m not shure whether i would prefer extinction to end pain...

Shurely i misunderstood many aspects... ..it would be kind if You could please explain...?

germanforestgump wrote:Hello Keith,feel welcome to this forum!You have a very interesting lifeway until now!

I looked a bit over your activities...Unfortunately, my english is not good enough for to understand all aspects.And for to explain what is irritating me about what motivates somebody first work for to save life by expanding it to the universe,and afterwards dealing with "raptor economy":

Isn´t this naming attractive for a specific kind of people?For people who don´t waste many thoughts about ethics?Isn´t their form of economy the activity most dangerous for life?

Surely i understand too less of economy but it is like an ecosystem.Do we have to accept an economic ecosystem of "raptor and prey"?Will such an economy not kill life before it succeded to jump from earth to space?

And for what expand to the stars if life will be there also a never ending struggle against economic terrorism?Is it responsible to contaminate other planetes with our terroristic economy?I ´m not shure whether i would prefer extinction to end pain...

Shurely i misunderstood many aspects... ..it would be kind if You could please explain...?

with friendly greetings,Your Hans

Hans!

Thanks for taking the time to ask.

I'm going to do my best to interpret the thrust of your question, which seems to be "isn't capitalism sort of evil?"

The short answer is it certainly can be. Same as Socialism once turned into "National Socialism" a.k.a. the German Nazi Party, Capitalism is prone to turning feral and cannibalistic when in the hands of madmen (and there are many examples of modern corporations that are run by lunatics.) The intent in both systems certainly starts as well meaning though. I'll save discussions of Socialism and other "isms" for some other time as the question asked appears to be limited to wagging a finger at Capitalism, especially as it is practiced today by American Mega-Corporations.

The theoretical underpinnings of modern capitalism come from professor Adam Smith's "An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nation" (WON). WON was not Dr. Smith's life's work however (he was in fact not even a professor of economics but rather of 'moral philosophy'). WON is basically a large parenthetical explanation of a specific point in his life's work, which was "The Theory Of Moral Sentiments", which lays out the presumed reasons people will sometimes [oftentimes??] act in ways that reflect the needs of others ahead of their own self interest. In this long sidebar explanation, capitalism explains many things and relies on an important assumption that we are dealing with an ideal scenario where the markets are both 'free' and 'fair'.

Modern capitalism is probably making poor Dr. Smith turn in his grave! It is a long way from free or fair and has become very distorted to the benefit of "them that's already got" at the expense of "them that's ain't got." Instead of making things better, e.g. more moral, this has many effects some of which are undesirable. Surely, not the result hoped for by a professor of Moral Philosophy.

In my writings, I shy away from preaching, which I wouldn't be good at anyway. I do attempt to make the world a slightly better place by 1) accepting the system is corrupt 2) giving others the tools to escape wage-slavery and thus do their own part to make the world a slightly better place (instead of scrambling to make ends meet as a sheepish consumerist drone.) That is, I show people how to level the playing field and escape from the worst personal effects capitalism is having on individuals and families. And I do this partly by turning heavily abused processes of the financial industry against itself. Some will certainly take that the wrong way. I accept that people, like Capitalism, are imperfect and do the best I can with what I have.

I certainly think a discussion about money is an important thing to have in a post-apocalyptic forum! If the money system had collapsed, presumably any survivors would be obliged to invent a new one.

One of the great things about being an author is being able to invent anything you like, without having to worry too much about the details, so in The Lucifer Bug I have the new currency pegged to the value of a litre of diesel fuel, and give the survivors the ability to make the diesel as a bio-fuel. I'm sure there must be snags to this, but I'm interested in how other forum members would solve the money problem.

We have (about) six members who are active in a week's span, and that (may) be enough to accomplish something with this forum.

I thought your use of fuel as a basis for exchange was reasonable under the circumstances of the novel, and you had readily at hand the means to increase the supply of the commodity to meet the needs of millions of people.

However, I'd like to point out that even in a pre-apocalyptic society, money is NOT a settled issue. The Chinese (as just one example) are busy trying to establish their currency as the global standard to replace the defacto US dollar. In addition, and perhaps more significantly over the long term, the digital currency offerings are thriving, although most seem to me to depend upon conversion to more traditional currency at some point.

For guidance of Dr. Dartnell, is there a direction you would like to see the forum take? The original purpose was (probably) to provide a place for readers of "The Knowledge" to gather to discuss the book. However, the nature of the theme, and the caliber of the people attracted imply to me a potential for the group to make a contribution to the future of the human enterprise.

I am in favor of benefit flowing to the individual members, as a positive feedback mechanism.

Thus, a gradual increase in the numbers of readers of your (inexpensive) eBook would (presumably) reinforce your interest in the forum AND help to provide a common framework for members, to supplement the framework provided by Dr. Dartnell.

(th)

May every member of The Knowledge forum grow financially, intellectually, socially and beyond.

Maurice Goldsmith wrote:I certainly think a discussion about money is an important thing to have in a post-apocalyptic forum! If the money system had collapsed, presumably any survivors would be obliged to invent a new one.

One of the great things about being an author is being able to invent anything you like, without having to worry too much about the details, so in The Lucifer Bug I have the new currency pegged to the value of a litre of diesel fuel, and give the survivors the ability to make the diesel as a bio-fuel. I'm sure there must be snags to this, but I'm interested in how other forum members would solve the money problem.

Maurice

Most "money" starts out as a commodity. Sometimes actual commodities are exchanged as in the case of tribes that used woodpecker pelts or conch shells to facilitate trade. Several science fiction novels have proposed using energy, with the kilowatt-hour being the preferred measure. Liquid fuels probably work but there is a question of how a seller would determine the fuel was of sufficient purity.

Indeed, i was brought up in the 1970ths with the feeling that economy is something "unmoral" and this was a welcome "reason" for me with my massive mathematics dysphoria to take the most farest way possible around it.

It takes my whole life (i´m 51 now) to realise that this is a wrong strategy and that economy is not only life-necessary, but also quite interesting even for someone who is not able to calculate.

I agree with You that it is necessary to have a realistic view on the human beeing in the sence of "evolutionary humanism".The fault of the ideologies You mention above is the intention to breed a "New Human".

But we have to deal with the human beeings as they are - and the art is to create political and economical institutions and proceedings, which lead to optimal results.

I read Smiths "Wealth of Nations", but why the "unvisible hand of market" often has terrible results, i learned just last days in the book "Why Nations failed".

Kapitalism as it is constructed now is not able to manage the commons for the benefit of whole mankind and planet.

So have we to reconstruct politics and economy considering the findings of Elinor Ostrom about "The Constitution of the Commons"?I am very interested on the strategies You will offer!

This board was established to facilitate "discussion". This purpose and function is built into the name.

However, "discussion" without results is useless, and a waste of the time of the participants and the time of everyone who reads the postings.

If the two of you decide to continue this discussion, please guide your thinking toward how you will USE the discussion to change your activities in the NEAR term!

Keithd21 takes action EVERY DAY to facilitate the most economical exchange of value between parties in the investment community. In return, he secures a small fee, which helps to pay for supplies and perhaps a bit of savings.

Hans, you have shown an interest in trying to figure out how the seething population of the planet can steer itself toward a future with increased well being for all, and reduced injury caused either by ignorance or willful aggressive behavior.

In an earlier post (as I recall) you endorsed a call by (about) 1000 elite individuals to prevent development of artificial intelligence able to kill human beings without human control. I would like to offer a positive way of looking at the issue you and the elite 1000 are trying to address. Years ago, Isaac Asimov developed and widely publicized the Three Laws of Robotics. It appears to me that while many people are familiar with the Three Laws, no one thinks they have anything to do with real life. I argue that the time for thinking SERIOUSLY about programming the Three Laws into the artificial intelligence that is on the verge of coming into being is RIGHT NOW!

Thus, "The Knowledge" forum can become a seed site from which the idea of programming the Three Laws NOW will flow out into the infosphere.

(th)

May every member of The Knowledge forum grow financially, intellectually, socially and beyond.