Video 9:50
Parties draw lines on school ethics classes

NSW Opposition Leader Barry O'Farrell has signalled his opposition to the school ethics class trial currently under independent review in what may become a key election issue.

Transcript

QUENTIN DEMPSTER, PRESENTER: First battlelines, Church versus State.

Further to the political realignment we canvassed last week where Premier Kristina Keneally seems to be moving Labor to a softer centre on contentious issues, like same sex adoption and making the Kings Cross injecting room effectively permanent.

This week the Premier signed a memorandum of understanding with Sydney Lord Mayor, Clover Moore, to make the Sydney CBD more people friendly.

More dedicated bicycle ways, a 40 kilometre per hour speed limit and what's called road sharing with pedestrians are part of the strategy, much to the disquiet of commerce and the disgust of some radio shock jocks.

And there's another indicator of shifting political ground, it's the difference emerging between Labor and the Coalition on the issue of ethics classes as an alternative to scripture or SRE - special religious education - in State schools.

Last week on Stateline Opposition Leader Barry O'Farrell indicated he favoured the status quo, no change.

The Department of Education has just concluded a trial of ethics classes and an independent expert is evaluating the results.

All stakeholders are now manoeuvring into position for what may become a political issue at the election next march.

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Scripture or SRE, Special Religious Education, up to an hour a week offered by churches accredited by a Ministerial Advisory Council in all State Schools has been an established practice since the first big dispute between Church and State around the Act of Settlement in 1880.

That's when the State Government first set up a Department of Education to take full responsibility for education which was previously provided by the churches.

DR PETER JENSEN, ANGLICAN ARCHBISHOP OF SYDNEY: We've been doing this for a very long time and the rule is a simple one: that parents should not be forced to choose between two good activities and that's the rule, the principle, which is now being breached. It's the same as if you were offering reading at one time and sport at the same time, therefore forcing parents, and children, to choose between two good things.

If ethics is such a good thing let's have it in the main program.

QUENTIN DEMPSTER: Anglican Archbishop of Sydney, Dr Peter Jensen, says the intention by the Rees now Keneally governments to offer secular ethics classes as an alternative to scripture is a breach of this long established practice.

Students and their parents have a right to opt out of scripture and that's the problem.

The Minister says they're basically twiddling their thumbs.

PETER JENSEN: Well I'm shocked. I'm shocked to hear the Minister say that, shocked because that is to do with the management of schools.

QUENTIN DEMPSTER: They're colouring in, they're watching DVDs.

PETER JENSEN: Well then let's make sure the matter is managed properly.

QUENTIN DEMPSTER: It sounds to me as though deep down, can I cut to the chase here Dr Jensen, you fear these ethics classes being offered as an alternative to SRE because it could be a body snatching exercise by secular interests in the schools.

QUENTIN DEMPSTER: Well you're calling, you're going to call a spade a spade now are you?

PETER JENSEN: Of course because that's obviously true. That is why the principle exists that parents should not have to choose. This trial began and immediately it was said to be available for all children and we had children who were enrolled in our classes, for whom we'd made arrangements, suddenly taken off by this new so called ethics.

So it will be a body snatching exercise and it will not be good for the children or the community.

TEACHER: So, I'll hand you out these scenarios.

QUENTIN DEMPSTER: Over four months the trial of ethics classes was conducted in 10 public primary schools.

TEACHER: See if you can find an ethical principle that's at stake in that scenario.

QUENTIN DEMPSTER: An evaluation of that trial is now being conducted by an expert interstate academic, Dr Sue Knight.

The criteria for Dr Knight's evaluation include a critical analysis of the quality of the course content, activities and resources, the efficacy of the course in improving students' understanding and skills in ethical decision making and the viability of extending the course to all New South Wales Government schools.

VERITY FIRTH, NSW MINISTER FOR EDUCATION: If she independently comes to that opinion then my view would definitely be that we should proceed with a roll out of the ethics course. That of course I would have to consult with my colleagues and have some sort of cabinet process around that, but that would be my view.

How it would practically be achieved is exactly the same as Special Religious Education. School communities could decide for themselves whether they wanted to have an ethics course offered at their school. If they did it would be staffed by volunteers, who would be trained presumably by the St James Ethics Centre, but we would work with them.

What it means is that it would be delivered exactly the way Special Religious Education is delivered, through a volunteer army, so to speak, trained by the St James Ethics Centre, delivered to schools who have decided that they, themselves, want to provide that course.

TEACHER: So you can see some common things in these principles that you've identified.

QUENTIN DEMPSTER: The ethics course still being developed is under the auspices of the St James Ethics Centre and the Federation of Parents and Citizens Associations. If it's rolled out across all schools a small army of unpaid, but vetted volunteers will arrive at schools on scripture day each week to teach ethics to those students who have already opted out of SRE.

QUENTIN DEMPSTER: Simon Longstaff is director of the St James Ethics Centre.

SIMON LONGSTAFF: There's been all sorts of suggestions made about what we're trying to do. That this is about trying to have a thin edge of the wedge to bring in some kind of atheistic plot to do away with SRE or it's going to destroy the foundation of Australian society.

I've been disturbed by some of the things which have been said but I take it that these are probably emerging out of people who are afraid of what's being proposed because they don't understand it and perhaps ignorant of what the actual proposal is. This has been a very well considered approach, I think, which has sought to provide justice for some children at the least expense to those who want to offer SRE or participate in it.

QUENTIN DEMPSTER: Aren't the churches right in complaining that you're interloping basically

SIMON LONGSTAFF: No, I don't think they're right at all and here's why. Firstly there has never been any suggestion from us or anybody associated with this program that there be any reduction on the ability of that settlement to continue. Scripture will still hopefully flourish throughout New South Wales. In fact if you think about it I belive that this could be the best thing that ever happened for scripture because it means the period assigned for SRE will be of something which is of value to every child, every parent in New South Wales and not just those who already attend scripture.

QUENTIN DEMPSTER: The Archbishop of Sydney has a fundamental problem with the content of ethics courses.

PETER JENSEN: It's the ambivalence of the word ethics isn't it. I think most mums and dads when they hear the word 'ethics' think their children are going to be taught right and wrong and in the main program of our schools, which I very much appreciate by the way, I think we ought to be proud of our schools and they teach values and ethics in the main program of the school. Meaning by that 'right and wrong'.

But the so called ethics course which we're being offered here is really more like philosophical inquiry, and that's a good thing for children particularly in, say, Year Six to have something about. But that's what it is. It's not ethics in the sense of right and wrong it's ethical inquiry at a philosophical level, and you can't mean to tell me that that's going to be taught all the way through school in special classes.

VERITY FIRTH: Section 32 of the Education Act it guarantees that right. The churches will always have a right for up to an hour of Special Religious Education in our schools, delivered the way they want to deliver it with their volunteers. That is guaranteed in legislation. All this is about is about offering an extra option for those parents who have already made a choice, parents who have already said I don't want my child to go to scripture.

SIMON LONGSTAFF: What we're saying is that we need to have an alternative to doing nothing meaningful and that there is a sensible program that you can put together, or at least I think there can be and that's what's being evaluated now, which allows children to engage in meaningful activity around ethical questions where they develop the skills of reflective practice.

QUENTIN DEMPSTER: Last week on Stateline Opposition and Coalition Leader Barry O'Farrell said he did not necessarily agree that ethics classes should be allowed to compete with scripture.

While we wait for the Coalition party room to release its policy after the evaluation, this is shaping up as a significant state election issue

PETER JENSEN: This is not an inner Sydney issue. This is an issue for the whole of New South Wales and I believe the views of the leaders are going to be very important indeed in this coming election on this matter. It's not going to lie down and go away.

QUENTIN DEMPSTER: And you're calling on the Premier not to proceed with it?

PETER JENSEN: Without doubt.

QUENTIN DEMPSTER: And O'Farrell?

PETER JENSEN: Likewise.

SIMON LONGSTAFF: If a decision was made that in the interests of the community as a whole this should be something that's introduced and the Coalition decided to oppose it they might be doing so in an entirely principled way. But I do think it would become an election issue and I just think it would be tragic to take something which is about the welfare of children and turn it into a partisan political issue.