Paul what can I say. I'm genuinely sorry these things happened, but you know, you have actually weathered the storm, and remember you HAVE LEFT.

Looking ahead, may I suggest that while being cautious where you are worshipping, how open are they to just talking about the real gospel, and the fact that there are sinister versions?

Not talking about massive details exchanged, but real person to real person stuff with experienced people who can actually recognise abuse when it is described? Coal-face people??

You wrote this today, sunday, which suggests something may have happened today? Maybe I'm wrong.Feel free to phone me if you wish, mate. You have my number, text me yours if you like and I can save you the cost of the call.

Abuse is an Australian trait it seems - Australia-wide those who can, frequently deliberately abuse elders. we "celebrated "International Elder Abuse day last week or rthe week before.

The local elder, David Bonham, was a non-stop nay-sayer who thought he knew everything. He practised giving to those who already had and taking the little those with nothing had away from them.

Oh, yes Paul, can thoroughly relate to this statement, as there were just as many of those type of people in the Brisbane fellowship. Depending on which elder they were being groomed by, they thought they were just "God's Chosen", who had the right to bawl you out and show you the error of your ways. Had one home group leader who bailed me up one day and proceeded to tell me that my children would grow up to be "really bad people" if I did not reign them in.
Had no insight or empathy whatsoever. Just a "WANNABE IF HE COULDBE", I used to call them.

Nope eagles, I'm fine, but thanks! New place is really good. Talked full details and fully appreciated by them and much compassion shown to us. I don't think anyone outside of it can ever fully understand but these guys pretty close. And definitely not being prescriptive towards us (after what we've been through!).

Just thought it needed a conclusion.

Thanks Robo, yep it was such a nutty time and all we wanted was to be useful! But the only way was to be totally sell-your-soul yuk and in competition with others. Absolutely looney. We never took a bar of that. A few times when people assumed I had some authority over them I just gave some general advice and Scripture and refused to be prescriptive like those leaders who trampled my life and dreams and offerings.

One of the reasons you werent being told about "why people left" was because of what you just wrote yourself in a note above.

"that no-one from 'outside' (of the inner circle) would fully understand what they (the elders) were capable of doing to people psychologically who were close to them.

We had tried to tell some and they didnt believe us and they said it couldnt possibly be true. Others when we told them started watching and when it touched them in some way they left. Others had been turned against us before we got to speak to them which was unfortunate.

Paul, thank you for coming back, you know it's more than just saddening the way they play these games - and that's what it is, like bullying a child.

No it is more than saddening, it is SICKENING - really and truly.

And no decent "father" would dream of teaching his children this way. The Father of us all is described so well by His Son, as decent, honest, loving, and I would add TRUTHFUL, and probably several other epithets if I had the time to think in detail about my reply.

Your comment "Just thought it needed a conclusion". is good.

Wonder if you were ever taught the process of public speaking, it is simple (this is a joke) and applies as well to sermons as lectures etc. It is a 3-step process -

You tell them what you are going to tell them

You then tell them

You then tell them finally what you have told them

LOL

New place is really good. Talked full details and fully appreciated by them and much compassion shown to us. And definitely not being prescriptive towards us (after what we've been through!).

This is so good and we don't always get this reaction. (From strangers) Yet we expect and/or hope to. And when it does not happen we don't understand why not.

Why not?

I don't think anyone outside of it can ever fully understand but these guys pretty close.

I think outsiders find it almost impossible to believe that people who call themselves "Christians" could or would do that to "brothers". How fortunate are they, then, chaps?

Take encouragement my friends.

The "major cults"are not as bad, I suspect, because the shunning comes quicker, and apart from family turning their back on you, it is concluded, so it does not go on so long. It is this mistaken idea that they must discipline you continually for them to be doing their job.

The hardest part to me is thinking that God is ignoring my prayers for it to stop... thoughts of being worthless rubbish because the leadership "would have to be right", surely?

One of the reasons you werent being told about "why people left" was because of what you just wrote yourself in a note above.

"that no-one from 'outside' (of the inner circle) would fully understand what they (the elders) were capable of doing to people psychologically who were close to them.

We had tried to tell some and they didnt believe us and they said it couldnt possibly be true. Others when we told them started watching and when it touched them in some way they left. Others had been turned against us before we got to speak to them which was unfortunate.

Charity, your above statement is 200% true. This is their modus operandi and SOP. They want the 'normal' congregation members (non-leaders, non-elders) to be completely in the dark about what happens to anyone who dares confront the 'Big Man' a.k.a. Vic 'the Vicious Hall' Hall or any of his chosen sycophants for that matter.

Many often think, 'How could you say such things against such a good man?' because they've always seen only the benevolent side and believe that any suffering heaped on us must've been self-induced, or in other words, we did things so bad that we basically deserved the nonsense we got. Others would have been on our side, but as Charity said, the accursed 'elders' would quickly brainwash them into becoming our enemies before we could have any chance of telling them our side of the story - my closest cousins being a textbook example of these. Rarest and least of all, some would hear us out, look for the truth, and upon finding it out, walk away.

Paul, Charity... we've all been victims of this twisted and malevolent PSEUDO-RELIGION. Yes, I say pseudo-religion because the xCFs and RFI is much more philosophical than application nowadays. Nowhere can it be seen that the Holy Spirit still moves mightily. There may be a weak spark here and there where sincere and unknowing members still worship in spirit and in truth... but otherwise, among the leaders and 'elders' - I believe any trace of true faith has long died out.

At the risk of being rude and crude I'd say the only bowl their teachings come from is the toilet bowl. So not clever to take an obscure passage of scripture that has a myriad of interpretations and weave a diabolical doctrine to trap the unwary.

Yes, David Bonham probably did come in initially with the best of intentions but was fooled by the so-called WORD like many of us. He was a primary school principal in a former life so they knew he already had a bit of super behind him and a house ... Oh, yes - elders and workers were targetted and vetted carefully. Power is an aphrodisiac. Get someone at the right time of life and wine them and dine them and they will succumb.

I agree with Charity that it was like we were hypnotised. Mind Control is like that. If you can get a copy of Steve Hassan's book on Mind Control - it's a good read. I stopped talking about it all when a counsellor said to me "you believed that?". (I stopped going to that counsellor too.)

Just a thought I made previously which I failed to follow up on when the last attack (shut down by by false claims) that was ignored by the minister for communications in the federal government (the only human being who is empowered by Australian legislation to do so).

The early church knew for centuries that the teachings of the church could be summarised simply in three short statements, when dealing with heretics and their heresies.

In all things essential, unity

In all things non-essential, diversity

In all things, charity

(that is to say love towards each other without pushing a teaching undocumented by scripture).

It is really quite remarkable (or is it?) that guru pastors don't teach their plebs this one !!

I last used it on a cell phone to an AoG proselyte who kept on phoning my wife and me, complaining about a lady he was interested in but who "did not come up to his standard", whatever that was. He and the lady were part of the Lutheran congregation we attended at the time, and which he chose to worship in - which was divided between an 8.30am traditional service and a 10am one that was "ya-ya-ya charismatic". That might be why he came back to "encourage" them? I don't know!