No movie is flawless, so it's ridiculous to repeat that TDK has flaws over and over. Of course it's not perfect. Slightly over-rated, perhaps. One of the best summer blockbuster films in recent times? Absolutely. The people who say otherwise are bias for whatever personal reasons they have to be against TDK. I've found the majority of them just don't like the Batman character and believe it to be silly, so they dismiss anything done with it in seriousness. A great many of the "professional" critics often criticized it for just that. They felt the film needed to be silly, like the 60s Batman show. Others criticized TDK because of Nolan's style or direction (jealously?)...others were upset that Ledger was receiving accolades and awards "simply because he died". And others I've encountered, hate the new Batman films completely out of some loyalty to the original Burton films, and Jack's Joker. ? makes no sense to me...

This poll is a perfect example of why TDK has fallen out of favour with a lot of people. Every option except for 'other' presents TDK-dislikers in a negative/uneducated light. The fact is many people here view TDK as the second coming. It is a very good comic book movie, but right now its praise has reached farcical levels.

They let a great movie fall out of their favor because some fans are over-zealous in their love for it? That sounds pretty stupid, to me. More like the against the grain types I mentioned before. Nobody can really offer substantial points against the film. It's all a bunch of ******** like that. The movie was fantastic. People just feel the need to nitpick and/or shun it because they have such a disdain for hype. The negativity has jumped ten-fold as the movie has become more and more successful and praised. This just furthers my point. It's grasping at straws to buck a trend. Get over it. The film earned it's praise and accolades. If critics and fans were looking to give handouts your beloved Watchmen would be getting raves across the board, as well, instead of the polarized reception it has received.

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So far this quest is a breeze. I've already killed a dead monster, what's next? We're going to open an unlocked door? Rescue a princess from herself?

They let a great movie fall out of their favor because some fans are over-zealous in their love for it? That sounds pretty stupid, to me. More like the against the grain types I mentioned before. Nobody can really offer substantial points against the film. It's all a bunch of ******** like that. The movie was fantastic. People just feel the need to nitpick and/or shun it because they have such a disdain for hype. The negativity has jumped ten-fold as the movie has become more and more successful and praised. This just furthers my point. It's grasping at straws to buck a trend. Get over it. The film earned it's praise and accolades. If critics and fans were looking to give handouts your beloved Watchmen would be getting raves across the board, as well, instead of the polarized reception it has received.

I've been a DIEHARD Bat-fan for over 23+ years, my favorite movie adaptation is Begins. I followed the hype, and I was here with all of you, in ALL of the other forums(although, my tag has changed here and everywhere else). I wanted this to be the best Bat-flick to be created. I liked most of the actors(Heath was amazing), and I was happy with everything we saw that was leading up to opening night. As far as Batman movies go, I'm not really a fan of TDK. The movie doesn't even feel like a Batman movie to me, but I do find it to be a enjoyable film. I find MANY things wrong with it, and I don't include it in my top 3 favorite Bat-flicks.

Bottom line: Opinions are opinions. It doesn't bother me that you are in love with it. In fact, if you're a fan of ANY bat-flick, you're a friend of mine. But, don't go around categorizing people who didn't enjoy it as much as you, and put them in one big whole. I feel my points are valid, even if they go against yours. I see many flaws/problems with Begins, but again, its my favorite Batman movie. A movie doesn't have to be perfect in order to like it. So I don't want to hear that I'm "going against the grain" just to be a little "punk rock". I didn't enjoy it, cause I just didn't like it that much.

You remind me of hardcore Christians who get upset that I don't conform to their exact religion, and tell me I'm going to Hell cause I'm Catholic. Just let me find God in my own way, and back off and let me be happy about it. If you want to debate on it, then by all means, but don't tell me I'm going to Hell and thats final!

What are you valid points, though? It doesn't feel like the Batman you prefer. Ok, that's valid in the sense that it's not your personal taste. There's nothing wrong with that. But that's the only thing I've seen. It doesn't really have any bearing on the overall quality of the piece on it's own when you remove your bias to whatever take of the character you think it should be. From what I gather, it just doesn't fit 'your' Batman (we all have our own idea, and that's fine, whatever.)

But, the people stomping around saying it's a bad or only decent or above average at best film in regards to scripting, direction, acting, editing, score etc...those are the folks I'm mainly referring to. They're full of it. Most of the whiners didn't even pop up till a good while after the film's release. Further fueling my point that the majority are doing it just because they can. When people start nitpicking and pulling things out of their rear just so they can be the voice of dissent is where I draw the line on 'to each his own.'

Take the fans out of the equation, this is still the most highly, or at least the most widely, praised film of last year. Critics (usually) aren't fanboys or even fans. It's like I said last post, they're not giving handouts. The movie was a god damned good one and deserves every bit of praise and every award it's received.

You cannot deny there is a very large portion of 'haters' that seem to be doing it simply for the very reasons I mentioned previously. They want to shun the new big thing. The purists/differing takes people I can at least deal with. But not the former.

TDK is not exactly how I would like things, either. I've said that numerous times so it's not like a miracle happened and I'm on the exact same wavelength as Nolan and company. But they got more than enough 'right' to please me as a fan. I was very pleased in that regard. As a movie judged on it's own merits it's far better than that, even. TDK is an extremely compelling narrative that's almost flawlessly executed (again, I'm talking about the artistry involved, not faithfulness or adherence to my own personal tastes of Batman).

If you honestly believe this film is seriously flawed in that respect, I disagree completely but I can accept that. But undermining it for petty reasons or because it's not how you would have done it is silly and, in the latter's case, showing an inability to appreciate differing views on the subject to a point where it ruins the piece for you rather than any wrongdoing on the filmmaker's behalf. I'm sorry if that ruffles your feathers but it's the truth. If you can't get into it because your hung up on something relatively superficial, that's not the crew's fault.

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The point is the film has been praised to the point where the movie is perceived better than it really is. The movie is very good. But fans would have you believe that it's one of humanity's greatest achievements.

If I hadn't seen TDK, and I came here to get an idea of how good it is, I would be extremely disappointed when I ended up watching it.

But most of this unwarranted praise is from over-zealous fans. Mostly in regards to it being the most groundbreaking, thoughtful, whatever film in the history of man. Which is not true, but in terms of making a very well done and entertaining film that at least bends the 'rules' of it's genre and transcends what's typically expected from it, I think it deserves all of it's praises. Critics and non-fanatics have been more objective and even they still rave about it on those grounds.

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So far this quest is a breeze. I've already killed a dead monster, what's next? We're going to open an unlocked door? Rescue a princess from herself?

What are you valid points, though? It doesn't feel like the Batman you prefer. Ok, that's valid in the sense that it's not your personal taste. There's nothing wrong with that. But that's the only thing I've seen. It doesn't really have any bearing on the overall quality of the piece on it's own when you remove your bias to whatever take of the character you think it should be. From what I gather, it just doesn't fit 'your' Batman (we all have our own idea, and that's fine, whatever.)

For the most part, it is a bias. Or, I should say, I big slap in the face, and huge departure that was established in Begins.

Let me just get this out of the way: I'm in no way trying to pick a fight with you, and my "mad smiley" had nothing to do with this discussion, but just an analogy that kind of gets me. It doesn't represent you totally, but I do apologize if it came off that way....

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But, the people stomping around saying it's a bad or only decent or above average at best film in regards to scripting, direction, acting, editing, score etc...those are the folks I'm mainly referring to. They're full of it. Most of the whiners didn't even pop up till a good while after the film's release. Further fueling my point that the majority are doing it just because they can. When people start nitpicking and pulling things out of their rear just so they can be the voice of dissent is where I draw the line on 'to each his own.'

I'm not trying to deny my nitpicking with it, because I have nitpicked this movie, although, I have nitpicked a lot of other movies I love, cause its just fun to do. But, in regards to peoples complaints "well after" the movie, shouldn't have any bearing on your "hatred" towards people who didn't like it. I know I waited MONTHS before I actually gave an honest opinion on the movie, and I did so cause I was afraid of the fanboys who were still in "TDK-honeymoon" period.

Now let me say, I do have some problems with the movie, regardless of what critics say. Some of them have to do with production, some with my bias, and some with other things. I'll let you read this if you want, but be warned that I was drunk, and kind of ranting, so it can be hard to read, hehe.

Take the fans out of the equation, this is still the most highly, or at least the most widely, praised film of last year. Critics (usually) aren't fanboys or even fans. It's like I said last post, they're not giving handouts. The movie was a god damned good one and deserves every bit of praise and every award it's received.

I know I've said this sooo many times, but it just doesn't feel like a Batman movie to me.

Good movie? Yes!

Good Bat-flick? Maybe(opinion).....

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You cannot deny there is a very large portion of 'haters' that seem to be doing it simply for the very reasons I mentioned previously. They want to shun the new big thing. The purists/differing takes people I can at least deal with. But not the former.

To tell you the truth, I side with myself. I don't take extreme haters into account, and I like to come to my own conclusion. Which is why I'm confused why some of you praise critics, but damn "haters"?

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TDK is not exactly how I would like things, either. I've said that numerous times so it's not like a miracle happened and I'm on the exact same wavelength as Nolan and company. But they got more than enough 'right' to please me as a fan. I was very pleased in that regard. As a movie judged on it's own merits it's far better than that, even. TDK is an extremely compelling narrative that's almost flawlessly executed (again, I'm talking about the artistry involved, not faithfulness or adherence to my own personal tastes of Batman).

Yeah, like I said, its not a bad movie, but as far as Batman movies go....I dunno?

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If you honestly believe this film is seriously flawed in that respect, I disagree completely but I can accept that. But undermining it for petty reasons or because it's not how you would have done it is silly and, in the latter's case, showing an inability to appreciate differing views on the subject to a point where it ruins the piece for you rather than any wrongdoing on the filmmaker's behalf. I'm sorry if that ruffles your feathers but it's the truth. If you can't get into it because your hung up on something relatively superficial, that's not the crew's fault.

hehe, I can almost guarantee you that I've seen the movie more then you have, and I will continue to watch it throughout the years. The movie took me for surprise in a totally bad way, and one that I felt was a sick joke. All the virals, promos, trailers, led me to believe the movie would be much different then what it was. And at the end of the day, it doesn't even feel like a real Batman movie. Sure, they got some things right, but the "feel" is totally and utterly WRONG. And this is coming from someone who thinks Begins is the best Bat-adaptation.

I do like this debate, and if it continues like this(civil), then I'll love to continue. I would just like to say thanks for not getting out of hand with my last comment.

The biggest problem with TDK is that Batman felt like a side character in his own movie. And not in the same way as Tim Burton's BATMAN. TDK was far more about Commissioner Gordon, Harvey Dent and The Joker. They made the movie.

The biggest problem with TDK is that Batman felt like a side character in his own movie. And not in the same way as Tim Burton's BATMAN. TDK was far more about Commissioner Gordon, Harvey Dent and The Joker. They made the movie.

I will also agree with this. I actually hate it when people tell me he had just as much, if not more, screen time in TDK then in Begins. Thats not the point! The point was that it didn't feel like a movie about Batman.

For the most part, it is a bias. Or, I should say, I big slap in the face, and huge departure that was established in Begins.

Let me just get this out of the way: I'm in no way trying to pick a fight with you, and my "mad smiley" had nothing to do with this discussion, but just an analogy that kind of gets me. It doesn't represent you totally, but I do apologize if it came off that way....

I dont think it was that huge of a departure. The color tone and Gotham being more Chicago than Gotham, the latter of which 'm not a huge fan of, are the biggest departures, IMO.

And no offense taken. Like I said, I wasn't specifically referring to you in my original posts, so whether you took it the wrong way or whatever I saw no reason at all to be hostile.

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I'm not trying to deny my nitpicking with it, because I have nitpicked this movie, although, I have nitpicked a lot of other movies I love, cause its just fun to do. But, in regards to peoples complaints "well after" the movie, shouldn't have any bearing on your "hatred" towards people who didn't like it. I know I waited MONTHS before I actually gave an honest opinion on the movie, and I did so cause I was afraid of the fanboys who were still in "TDK-honeymoon" period.

Well, that might be you, but I've seen far too many examples of people suddenly becoming detractors after something becomes enormously popular just because. So it does have a bearing on my irritation with those people. The same kind that think a band is awesome one minute and then accuse them of selling out as soon as they hit it big, ya know?

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Now let me say, I do have some problems with the movie, regardless of what critics say. Some of them have to do with production, some with my bias, and some with other things. I'll let you read this if you want, but be warned that I was drunk, and kind of ranting, so it can be hard to read, hehe.

With that review, I can only really agree with the Gotham City part. Everything else you mentioned I thought was done spectacularly. I mean, no cave? Of course there's no cave the manor was destroyed. So not only was it a organic step for the narrative but him living in a penthouse and using a man-made 'cave' was a nice nod to the comics of the 70's where he did the exact same thing just to be closer to the heart of the city or something like that.

But yeah, it's mainly the bias.

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To tell you the truth, I side with myself. I don't take extreme haters into account, and I like to come to my own conclusion. Which is why I'm confused why some of you praise critics, but damn "haters"?

I damn 'haters' because that term is for someone who's just hatin'. No real reason. They're just knocking it for superficial reasons or for the sake of knocking it. Whereas the critics have been more objective with both their praise and complaints (although there haven't been many of the latter).

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hehe, I can almost guarantee you that I've seen the movie more then you have, and I will continue to watch it throughout the years.

o rly? If you've seen it more than I have there's no way you could be as dissapointed with it as you are. I've seen it over 2 dozen times!

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The movie took me for surprise in a totally bad way, and one that I felt was a sick joke. All the virals, promos, trailers, led me to believe the movie would be much different then what it was. And at the end of the day, it doesn't even feel like a real Batman movie. Sure, they got some things right, but the "feel" is totally and utterly WRONG. And this is coming from someone who thinks Begins is the best Bat-adaptation.

I still maintain it very much feels like Batman, but I can definitely understand why you'd be dissapointed if your expectations really were that different. I expected a lot of the things you were thrown off by, but I was surprised in a very good way as I was expecting basically a film the quality of Begins with some added oomph from The Joker. This isn't saying Begins was subpar, but it was a little flat at times, especially on repeat views. Up until TDK 'Mask of The Phantasm' was still the best Batman movie, IMO. But anyway, I went in expecting a movie a little better than Begins and got completely blown away.

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I do like this debate, and if it continues like this(civil), then I'll love to continue. I would just like to say thanks for not getting out of hand with my last comment.

No problem, it has been interesting.

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So far this quest is a breeze. I've already killed a dead monster, what's next? We're going to open an unlocked door? Rescue a princess from herself?

The biggest problem with TDK is that Batman felt like a side character in his own movie. And not in the same way as Tim Burton's BATMAN. TDK was far more about Commissioner Gordon, Harvey Dent and The Joker. They made the movie.

I don't agree with this. While the four shared similar amounts of face time, the film was wholly about Batman.

I'll just say what I said in another thread about the same issue: I think people get distracted by The Joker (rightly so due to the marketing and his captivating performance) and the events transpiring. But when you sit back and think about it, they called it The Dark Knight for a reason, it is wholly about Batman. Everything that happens with all the personalities involved are there to further his journey and evolution. The Dark Knight is very much about Batman. Unlike the previous series where Batman was literally a supporting character more often than not.

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So far this quest is a breeze. I've already killed a dead monster, what's next? We're going to open an unlocked door? Rescue a princess from herself?

Well, that might be you, but I've seen far too many examples of people suddenly becoming detractors after something becomes enormously popular just because. So it does have a bearing on my irritation with those people. The same kind that think a band is awesome one minute and then accuse them of selling out as soon as they hit it big, ya know?

I know exactly what you're saying. I've been on both sides of story, so it can be a sticky subject(much like this). Thats why I like people to speak up, and have a full explanation why, because some could be bull*****, while others could be exactly what you're saying.

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With that review, I can only really agree with the Gotham City part. Everything else you mentioned I thought was done spectacularly. I mean, no cave? Of course there's no cave the manor was destroyed. So not only was it a organic step for the narrative but him living in a penthouse and using a man-made 'cave' was a nice nod to the comics of the 70's where he did the exact same thing just to be closer to the heart of the city or something like that.

But yeah, it's mainly the bias.

Hehe. I knew he would be in the penthouse, but I didn't know it would be shot the way it was. Bias? TOTALLY! But it does kind of expand on why this doesn't feel like a "true" Batman movie, regardless if it happened in 1-2 comics in the 70s.

With this kind of thinking, B&R is totally justified, cause all of that stupid crap that has happend once or twice in the old 50s-60s comics.

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I damn 'haters' because that term is for someone who's just hatin'. No real reason. They're just knocking it for superficial reasons or for the sake of knocking it. Whereas the critics have been more objective with both their praise and complaints (although there haven't been many of the latter).

I understand what you're saying, but just be careful with how you word things, cause it can come off extremelly hateful in itself.

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o rly? If you've seen it more than I have there's no way you could be as dissapointed with it as you are. I've seen it over 2 dozen times!

I saw the movie about 14 times in the theater, I have it on my iPhone, and have watched it when I'm out and about, or at the gym on the treadmill. I have it on my laptop, and watch it when I'm out of town on business, and I also bought a Blu-Ray player, and a copy just to watch it.....Also, I bought it on standard DVD, just encase

Am I a hypocrite? Maybe from some point of views, but I do like the movie.

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I still maintain it very much feels like Batman, but I can definitely understand why you'd be dissapointed if your expectations really were that different. I expected a lot of the things you were thrown off by, but I was surprised in a very good way as I was expecting basically a film the quality of Begins with some added oomph from The Joker. This isn't saying Begins was subpar, but it was a little flat at times, especially on repeat views. Up until TDK 'Mask of The Phantasm' was still the best Batman movie, IMO. But anyway, I went in expecting a movie a little better than Begins and got completely blown away.

No problem, it has been interesting.

If there was a "handshake" smiley, I would give you one. Nice talking to you, sir.

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I'll just say what I said in another thread about the same issue: I think people get distracted by The Joker (rightly so due to the marketing and his captivating performance) and the events transpiring. But when you sit back and think about it, they called it The Dark Knight for a reason, it is wholly about Batman. Everything that happens with all the personalities involved are there to further his journey and evolution. The Dark Knight is very much about Batman. Unlike the previous series where Batman was literally a supporting character more often than not.

Let me just chime in on this really quick. B89 was all about Batman, but turned out to be more focused on Joker. I think thats what he was talking about. Yes, the overall theme, much like B89 was all about Batman, but to much distraction was taken place, to the point to where peoples lasting impression isn't on the main protagonist.

Hehe. I knew he would be in the penthouse, but I didn't know it would be shot the way it was. Bias? TOTALLY! But it does kind of expand on why this doesn't feel like a "true" Batman movie, regardless if it happened in 1-2 comics in the 70s.

It was a quite a bit longer than a couple issues, IIRC.

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With this kind of thinking, B&R is totally justified, cause all of that stupid crap that has happend once or twice in the old 50s-60s comics.

B&R was a just a bad script with that hideous neon/nipples/and butt shots and a cast that looked like they'd rather be dead than in that movie. None of the stuff from it is really from the Silver Age comics. Which if Brave and The Bold has taught me anything, aren't that bad in concept. The best connection that could be made is with the Adam West show, but B&R lacks any of the charm, wit, and style that made that show so great.

Like I said, just a horribly done film on almost every level.

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I saw the movie about 14 times in the theater, I have it on my iPhone, and have watched it when I'm out and about, or at the gym on the treadmill. I have it on my laptop, and watch it when I'm out of town on business, and I also bought a Blu-Ray player, and a copy just to watch it.....Also, I bought it on standard DVD, just encase

Am I a hypocrite? Maybe from some point of views, but I do like the movie.

I understand your beefs a lot better, but if you watch it that ****ing much you're definitely at least a wee bit hypocritical, or perhaps overstating your issues with it. Like damn...that's a lot of Dark Knight to be watchin' for a man having so many problems with it!

But......I salute you, sir. I never thought I'd come across someone who had actually seen it more times than I have.

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If there was a "handshake" smiley, I would give you one. Nice talking to you, sir.

Back at ya.

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I think I've heard the most criticism about Bale's Batman voice. So the movie isn't doing too badly if that's the thing that annoys people the most.

But at least most of the reviewers who didn't like it simply wanted something more fun and comic-booky. So they were criticizing what they thought the movie should have been instead of judging it on its own merits.

2) It lacks the same feeling upon watching it again. The suspense doesn't stay with each viewing, and you miss the feeling you should have. It's like watching Psycho knowing what the deal is with Norman Bates, it's not as good as it would be if you hadn't seen it already.

I actually liked that the suspense is lessened every time you watch it. The first time, the tension got me so bad I went through the entire movie trying to nurse a bad foot cramp.

TDK has stopped being a movie where I see what's next. Actually, since I tend to spoil myself before every movie I watch, that's not the point of watching any movie for me. Seeing a movie tends to be an experience, seeing how a story is constructed. I particularly love doing this with Nolan films because he constructs them so thoughtfully, yet effortlessly. TDK is the first movie from Nolan and Co. that plays linearly, so I wasn't sure how they would handle it. Turns out it was fine, nay, arguably his best film.

Besides, BB and TDK are the only Nolan films that aren't so crushingly depressing that I can handle experiencing them multiple times.

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Originally Posted by JAK®

This poll is a perfect example of why TDK has fallen out of favour with a lot of people. Every option except for 'other' presents TDK-dislikers in a negative/uneducated light. The fact is many people here view TDK as the second coming. It is a very good comic book movie, but right now its praise has reached farcical levels.

Right now? You should have seen the interwebs a few days after TDK's release.

I read threads on other movie-related (but not superhero/comic book-focused) boards where they were positively gushing over TDK. They couldn't speak after the end credits, they were amazed, it met/exceeded the hype, they couldn't describe the experience but EVERYONE SHOULD GO WATCH IT RIGHT NOW.

The box office forum posters were pleased as punch that a "deserving" movie was breaking all of the records. People were cheering for it to beat Titanic over that opening weekend.

I think we're removed enough from the film's release that acknowledgment of its flaws are generally accepted. But fanatics on either side are still looked upon dubiously.

The point is the film has been praised to the point where the movie is perceived better than it really is. The movie is very good. But fans would have you believe that it's one of humanity's greatest achievements.

If I hadn't seen TDK, and I came here to get an idea of how good it is, I would be extremely disappointed when I ended up watching it.

As sad as this is, I completely agree with you. And I love TDK. Personally, it's one of my favorite films but I also am a huge fan of the realism route. The film is close to flawless but only in the eyes of those who are probably all of the above....Batman fans, realism fans and Nolan fans.

Anybody who is not a fan of all 3 may very well have some opinions about the film being too realistic, not enough action or whatever. I know the film is not perfect but it's the closest thing to what I've always wanted to see in a Batman film and I know I'm not alone.

I actually liked that the suspense is lessened every time you watch it. The first time, the tension got me so bad I went through the entire movie trying to nurse a bad foot cramp.

TDK has stopped being a movie where I see what's next. Actually, since I tend to spoil myself before every movie I watch, that's not the point of watching any movie for me. Seeing a movie tends to be an experience, seeing how a story is constructed. I particularly love doing this with Nolan films because he constructs them so thoughtfully, yet effortlessly. TDK is the first movie from Nolan and Co. that plays linearly, so I wasn't sure how they would handle it. Turns out it was fine, nay, arguably his best film.

Here's my problem with this, who honestly expects a film to still be suspenseful when they've seen it already? Am I missing somethng here? TDK stopped being 'suspenseful' after the credits rolled on my first viewing. There can't really be suspense if you know what's going to happen.

I agree on Nolan, he's truly one of the best. So far I haven't seen a film from him that's dissapointed. Why I'm looking forward to that sci-fi flick he's working on, even if it pushes back B3 a bit.

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So far this quest is a breeze. I've already killed a dead monster, what's next? We're going to open an unlocked door? Rescue a princess from herself?

The biggest problem with TDK is that Batman felt like a side character in his own movie. And not in the same way as Tim Burton's BATMAN. TDK was far more about Commissioner Gordon, Harvey Dent and The Joker. They made the movie.

I agree this is why it so easily molds into a "realistic" CBM batman is hardly in it when he does appear more at the end of the movie it reverts to more traditional CBM fare.

My big problem is there is no mythos with Nolans bat like in BTAS or Burtons movies in TDK he is simply a guy in a suit fighting crime there is no real drive for him to wear the suit then that, love or hate Keaton or BTAS but those Bruce's seemed far more psycologically bound to the batman it was an extension of their dark place rather then a tool for all Nolans supposed love he really tripped up on this aspect of the character.

im no big fan of BB but the end of the movie (gotham residents struck with fear as a giant batlike creature soars above them) and the parts where the crooks wonder in fear who he is where a great springboard to produce a real Dark Knight detective to rival the comics but TDK turned into a cop drama with the police trying to hunt down a terrorist.