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aka_mythos wrote:The reason you play as Tyranid Warriors is because besides Genestealers they're the most basic synapse creature and Termagaunts would move with instinctive behavior

But they could have easily made it so they get 1 warrior as the leader, the rest gaunts. Added a sentence to say they ignore the synapse rule for this. A million things they could have done but they didn't care to.

str00dles1 wrote:2. The missions are horribly imbalanced in everyway. The one mission I'm the defender, I get D6 guys. I roll a 2 and have 2 guys. My opponent is attacker, he has 4 warriors. Literally no way to win. Most of the missions is turn 1 someone can easily loose. Somehow, GW hasn't figured out that skirmish games (and most games) work better with UGOIGO

Necromunda was never balanced; that was the good thing about it.

Anyway, your statement is factually incorrect; I played The Raid using Astra Militarum Veterans as defender, starting with two sentries., while the attacker was Harlequins with four models. He managed to take down the sentries, but not before the alarm was raised*. Both sentries subsequently got back up, and as reinforcements arrived, the increasing numbers meant I could start to pour on enough fire to force a Bottle roll. So I won the scenario you claim there is "literally no way to win".

*one sentry was charged by a Harlequin, failed his Fear test and fled. We assumed that counted as raising the alarm. IN any case, he fled, was fired on, wounded and fell off a ledge, going Down in the process; the alarm was raised by that point anyway.

Warmachine is held up as the acme of a balanced game, and it's full of stories of first-turn wins. It's also possible with Infinity and probably Malifaux too. It's not ideal, but it happens. In that case, you've got plenty of time to carry out the post-battle sequence and play again.

Incorrect. I played Hit and Run. I was the defender. I got D6 guys, I rolled a 2 and got 2 guys. I played vs Nids he had 4 warriors. The min amount of guys he can get is 4. So he got all 4 regardless of his roll. That is literally impossible to win.

Any game that is a first turn win isn't designed with giving the enjoyment of playing a miniatures game in mind. It gives no good play experience. At that point you might as both roll a d6, see who gets higher and declare that the winner.

Like I said, this is literally a stop gap to acquire new players and have them slowly build up a force right before the release of 8th. This worked, so GW accomplished their goal. The longevity/support/fun of this game is going to be per usual of GWs boxed games, a flash in the pan and on to the next.

The terrain is great, I plan to get more, but as for a game system, there are tons and tons of much better options out there. Take it as you will

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/15 18:03:11

We keep having problems where you get the basic Mission 1, and the Tau, Skit, and IG players just move their guys into elevated cover and overwatch for the whole game.

I'm not kidding. We had guys just saying 'My turn? OK my whole team overwatches'.

Eventually when they started doing this, we just told them to get off the table.

If he wanted his whole table to overwatch he should have played infinity seriously though, I'd love for an opponent to do that because they are effectively saying "I want you to choose my targets and knock a point off of my ballistic skill".

Necrons - 4k
Dark angels - 2k

"You know what they say about brute force, if it's not working you are not using enough of it"

aka_mythos wrote:The reason you play as Tyranid Warriors is because besides Genestealers they're the most basic synapse creature and Termagaunts would move with instinctive behavior

But they could have easily made it so they get 1 warrior as the leader, the rest gaunts. Added a sentence to say they ignore the synapse rule for this. A million things they could have done but they didn't care to.

Thematically Shadow War is framed as kill team fighting kill team which is a bit different from the actual game "Kill Team" where even though that was a possibility in general it was expected that some players would play swarmy goon squads of fodder... This isn't that. While I believe there is a place for the type of list and force you are talking about a brood of Warriors is more consistent with what they were trying to achieve. Almost all the lists are built around a single 40k troop squad outfitted for the kill team role... generally following the paradigm of veteran sergeant, basic troop, gunner, new recruit... the main departure from this is the CSM who include cultists just to underscore that there aren't "newly recruit" CSM. Warriors are able to fulfill this without the need for gaunts.

Warriors don't really operate solitary. Despite being a synapse creature they operate in broods and a single Warrior leading a pack of gaunts would be a departure from that.

I think there is also a game balance component... Warriors tend to build out as a more elite teams, on the same order as Grey Knights... and if you could give either a screen of fodder they would nearly never die. The risk vs reward would quickly become all reward.

aka_mythos wrote:The reason you play as Tyranid Warriors is because besides Genestealers they're the most basic synapse creature and Termagaunts would move with instinctive behavior

But they could have easily made it so they get 1 warrior as the leader, the rest gaunts. Added a sentence to say they ignore the synapse rule for this. A million things they could have done but they didn't care to.

They designed the teams to be built from one troop box. Or, the same box, twice. Tyranid Warriors are the most basic troop type with a variety of weapons. And, a plausible independent team psychology, compared to lesser Hive Mind creatures. All teams have similar "limitations," to one degree or another. That said, Tyranids Warriors is a team with basic members that are better than most team's Special Operatives. They stretch the envelope. I played them and tabled CSM, which are no slackers. Don't judge the game by Tyranids. And, how well Tyranids perform in a campaign is the real test. You can't even replace a specialist or a trooper. You have to spend a Promethium Cache to buy a New Recruit with the cheapest weapons. Or, spend a PC to buy a decent weapon.

str00dles1 wrote:2. The missions are horribly imbalanced in every way. The one mission I'm the defender, I get D6 guys. I roll a 2 and have 2 guys. My opponent is attacker, he has 4 warriors. Literally no way to win. Most of the missions is turn 1 someone can easily loose. Somehow, GW hasn't figured out that skirmish games (and most games) work better with UGOIGO

I get you are frustrated by a bad outing. But, c'mon now, we're talking about a game system that flourished for years in its second version (and Necromunda), and is still around 5 versions for a total of 30 years. The missions were not designed like balanced one-off games. They come from Necro. There, they told stories, and put gangs in difficult situations. No gang was supposed to win every game. This isn't a tournament, or even a ladder league. Survival and climbing the"corporate" ladder were the goals. There is still enough randomness after a battle to snatch victory from defeat, and defeat from victory. I wont say they got it right with 12 different factions, cause I don't know. But, I bet you the three factions that came with the game box are closely matched. I know my Genestealer Cult matches up well with Astra Militarum.

Anyway, I've already had two great games (Tyranids vs CSM, GSC vs AM). Don't know how much you have invested in the game, but I hope you give it a second chance. Just pick on somebody your own size, this time.

Oh, and for you folks lamenting the "Everyone is on Overwatch," BS. You need a lot more terrain. You need to make sure you know your Hit modifiers and Fleeting Target rules. And, keep your eyes on the prize (Victory Conditions).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/16 01:09:25

str00dles1 wrote:I played Hit and Run. I was the defender. I got D6 guys, I rolled a 2 and got 2 guys. I played vs Nids he had 4 warriors. The min amount of guys he can get is 4. So he got all 4 regardless of his roll. That is literally impossible to win.

In that instance, you don't even need to worry about raising the alarm. Hunker down for a couple of turns and then your reinforcements can hopefully turn the tide. Unlikely? Of course. That's what makes it all the better when you pull it off.

At least the game didn't last very long, you only had to worry about two potential injuries and then you get a Promethium Cache, 100 points of reinforcements and on to the next game.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/16 13:21:02

If you guys want more missions, I heartily suggest download the Necromunda Compilations from Yaktribe. Between them there are maybe... 25 new scenarios/missions, most of which work with ZERO alterations.

Am I playing something wrong or are Orks more likely to run out of ammo than actually knock an opponent out of the game?

We played with a lot of terrain and it wasn't hard to force the Orks at BS 2 to need a 6, 7 or 8 to hit. I.e. you need to roll a six to hit and then reroll (if a 7 or 8 is required). From there you roll to wound, which could fail, be stopped by armor/invul or result in a wound, of which you only have a 1/6 chance of knocking them out of the game.

However, upon rolling the six to hit you need to roll a 5+ to avoid running out of bullets, i.e. you have a 1/6 chance of running out of bullets.

str00dles1 wrote:1. Its stupid you play as warriors and not horma/termagaunts in a swarm like orks. You can take 4 models, and that's 12 wounds to chew though, and they don't get pinned unless high impact/str 7 weapons.

I think gaunts require the presence of the hive mind control from a bigger tyrant or some such creature. In a small game like this you want you gangers to be independent. Gives more tactical flexibility then have everyone in a single lump. But the warriors do sound tough!
Basically the warriors are more trust worthy then the gaunts to act independently!

Time 2 Roll wrote:Am I playing something wrong or are Orks more likely to run out of ammo than actually knock an opponent out of the game?

We played with a lot of terrain and it wasn't hard to force the Orks at BS 2 to need a 6, 7 or 8 to hit. I.e. you need to roll a six to hit and then reroll (if a 7 or 8 is required). From there you roll to wound, which could fail, be stopped by armor/invul or result in a wound, of which you only have a 1/6 chance of knocking them out of the game.

However, upon rolling the six to hit you need to roll a 5+ to avoid running out of bullets, i.e. you have a 1/6 chance of running out of bullets.

Is this all correct?

I think that if ToHit roll of 7 is required it is not possible to actually Hit. That rerolll works only if you have BS7 and rolled "1" the first time.
Actually "Knocking Out-of-the-game" is quite difficult in this game, and that's the beauty of it!

After rolling "6" To Hit you must pass Ammo Roll on 2d6! That makes it easier

Not quite. It's possible to "roll" a 7 - roll a 6 then roll again and get a 4+. You need a 5+ on the second die to "roll" an 8 and a 6 on the second die for a 9. You can't hit if you'd need a 10 or more.

And he knows the ammo test is on 2d6 - that's what he was referring to by citing a 1/6 chance of running out of ammo.

Manchu wrote:Not quite. It's possible to "roll" a 7 - roll a 6 then roll again and get a 4+. You need a 5+ on the second die to "roll" an 8 and a 6 on the second die for a 9. You can't hit if you'd need a 10 or more.

And he knows the ammo test is on 2d6 - that's what he was referring to by citing a 1/6 chance of running out of ammo.