#3ZyklonZ,
Posted:Jun 21 2009 at 3:49 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Aw, you don't have to be like that VZX. The reason I asked this because there's this decked out SAM/MNK/NIN I know with full usukane, hachiryu legs, Gnadbhod and such. During an event I asked him why was he WSing in Hauby instead of KO as SAM/NIN, he said "He doesn't miss WS a whole lot". I kinda' knew acc doesn't really matter on YGK, but since this person put so much time in his job, I figured he had some super secret hidden knowledge about it that he didn't wanna share.

I'm pretty sure he was just letting you know the only time he needs acc for YGK.

Which half answers your question.

Only time I need ACC, is when I'm Flashed, but instead of tailoring a specific YGK lolFlash acc+str setup, I just try not to ws while flashed. Even with acc buffs, flash still seems to be just as potent, its as if it lowers your acc to cap at 50-60% or something like that. Wiki just say's it severly lowers acc.

I'm still learning what modifiers do what for SAM. I keep hearing ACC is totally useless for Y/G/K. Ok fair enough, but what about ATK? Basically I'm confused if you'd do more damage with an Osode or Hauby +1. Osode has +4STR more than a HQ Hauby, but then again even the Hachiman has STR+8. I read the stickies, but I just get more confused. Can someone break this down please.

I'm still learning what modifiers do what for SAM. I keep hearing ACC is totally useless for Y/G/K. Ok fair enough, but what about ATK? Basically I'm confused if you'd do more damage with an Osode or Hauby +1. Osode has +4STR more than a HQ Hauby, but then again even the Hachiman has STR+8. I read the stickies, but I just get more confused. Can someone break this down please.

osode > hachiman+1 > hachiman >= haub+1 > haub

y/g/k get a large pDIF (ATT) bonus. someone on BG posted tests supporting the claim that the bonus is different for each, going gekko > kasha > yuki in order of potency.

supposedly, the bonus multiplies your pDIF rather than adding raw ATT. because of this, adding ATT would actually be just as beneficial with the pDIF bonus as without, provided you don't cap pDIF. however, if the values in the BG thread (which i just found) are correct (or even close), you do cap ATT vs merit mobs so it doesn't make any difference.

vs kirin and such, it's a bit tougher to say. if you load STR at the expense of ATT you won't see any ****** results, but it's possible that your damage could be a bit higher if you go with ATT vs high DEF / high level mobs. never ever need ACC though.

y/g/k get a large pDIF (ATT) bonus. someone on BG posted tests supporting the claim that the bonus is different for each, going gekko > kasha > yuki in order of potency.

supposedly, the bonus multiplies your pDIF rather than adding raw ATT. because of this, adding ATT would actually be just as beneficial with the pDIF bonus as without, provided you don't cap pDIF. however, if the values in the BG thread (which i just found) are correct (or even close), you do cap ATT vs merit mobs so it doesn't make any difference.

vs kirin and such, it's a bit tougher to say. if you load STR at the expense of ATT you won't see any sh*tty results, but it's possible that your damage could be a bit higher if you go with ATT vs high DEF / high level mobs. never ever need ACC though.

I see Milich. So if you were upgrading your gear between Osode, Hauby +1, or Hagun options, what would you pick first? I'm thinking of Hagun at this point. Use NQ Hauby for TP, WS with hachiman(+8str).

y/g/k get a large pDIF (ATT) bonus. someone on BG posted tests supporting the claim that the bonus is different for each, going gekko > kasha > yuki in order of potency.

supposedly, the bonus multiplies your pDIF rather than adding raw ATT. because of this, adding ATT would actually be just as beneficial with the pDIF bonus as without, provided you don't cap pDIF. however, if the values in the BG thread (which i just found) are correct (or even close), you do cap ATT vs merit mobs so it doesn't make any difference.

vs kirin and such, it's a bit tougher to say. if you load STR at the expense of ATT you won't see any sh*tty results, but it's possible that your damage could be a bit higher if you go with ATT vs high DEF / high level mobs. never ever need ACC though.

I see Milich. So if you were upgrading your gear between Osode, Hauby +1, or Hagun options, what would you pick first? I'm thinking of Hagun at this point. Use NQ Hauby for TP, WS with hachiman(+8str).

Edited, Jul 2nd 2009 12:34am by ShadowedgeFFXI

mm,

hagun / NQhaub TP / NQhachiman body WS

better than

onimaru / haub+1 TP / NQhachiman body WS about equal to onimaru / haub TP / k.osode WS, though it depends on ACC or just how lucky you get with the STR (will be small % difference either way, while hagun gives a big chunk of damage).

"how much damage from hagun?"

i wrote something more substantial about this awhile ago, but just roughly:

suppose around 60% of your damage comes from WS, and 40% of it from TP (there's a small problem with that, but forget that for now).

onimaru hits about 9.5% harder while TPing in virtue of its base damage, about 4%~ harder from the 18ATT, and gets you about 2.7% DoT from 5ACC (and a bit more WS). all told, it does about 17% more melee damage. its base damage on WS (before considering fTP, which "technically" is part of base damage for some reason) is still 8 higher than hagun, so with a decent amount of STR it's about 5%~ higher.

so for the split we have:

40 * 1.17 = 46.8 60 * 1.05 = 63 total: 109.8

(if it's not clear, that total is how much better onimaru would be than a d75 delay450 GK with no ATT/ACC bonus and no TP bonus. below we'll have hagun's improvement over such a GK and compare them. note also how the 17% increase in melee damage amounted only to 6.8% increase in total damage, sort of foreshadowing why hagun is so good and lots of things like rice balls, minuet, etc don't increase a SAM's damage as much as you might expect at first)

hagun has its sh*tty-ish melee (though really d75 isn't that bad; base damage is actually around 85~ after you factor fSTR, so again a "high dmg" GK is only like 10%~ higher damage). hagun of course adds 100%TP to your WS (100% is like 200%, 150% like 250%, 250% like 300% because it stops going up @300%), so the weakest WS increase hagun can give 100% to 200%, or 1.5625 fTP to 1.875, which is a 20% increase. fTP multiplies the whole WS (since the "damage equation" or whatever is just a big multiplication equation), so hagun is:

40 * 1.0 = 40 60 * 1.2 = 72 total: 112

this looks like an increase of 2% over onimaru, around as small as the increase of getting a haub or osode (both are like 1%~2% or so). the thing is that all the situational factors you can find skew towards hagun. for example, HNM skews this damage split to like 20/80. for simplicity's sake, pretend the bonuses calculated for onimaru were the same vs HNM (they're not), and note what that does:

you don't actually WS @100%TP often (or at least sometimes; how often depends on how aggressively you merit, and how much your time is spent meriting or whatever). the way fTP works is that it's linear. in other words, if fTP=1.0 at 100%TP and 1.5 at 200%TP for a certain WS, it's 1.25 at 150% TP.

this matters to hagun because going from 200%TP to 300%TP is a steeper increase than going from 100%TP to 200%TP:

100%TP 200%TP 300%TP
1.5625 1.875 2.50

so if all your WSs were at 200%TP, hagun would actually give you 33.3% harder hitting WSs. that + fTP being linear means that the bonus for hagun is underestimated if you just stipulate WSing at 100%TP.

another thing is that hagun's bonus never gets mitigated by mob stats. high EVA mob? hagun's good part doesn't care, b/c innate ACC bonuses mean you'll be hitting your WSs and skewing your damage split more towards WS (because you hit them disproportionately more than you hit melee strikes, and you have meditate). cap ACC (or more rarely, ATT)? half of onimaru's melee advantage just disappears, but hagun's fTP bonus stays fully intact (though damage will skew slightly toward melee since the ACC/ATT bonuses on WS will matter less).

a few more random factors are: shinsoku is even sh*ttier, onimaru's base damage drops if you swing past 100%TP, probably more i'm forgetting.

all told, i'd be surprised if your damage went up by less than 5% in merits by buying a hagun, and less than 20%~ vs HNM/gods. haub+1 and osode will both be around a 1%-2% increase because their stats just aren't that much better than NQ haub and hachiman. osode of course has some soloing/DNC utility if you care about that though.