Sunday, June 28, 2015

I also wish people like Brad, Larry and other SP notables would come out and say “Hey, this* isn’t what we intended or what we hoped would happen. We’re sorry the whole thing has become such a mess.” (*where “this” means locking up the ballot and shutting out other works.

Or, you know, maybe they're not sorry. I'm certainly not. I doubt anyone in the Evil Legion of Evil is. One benefit of being ELoE is never having to say you're sorry.

I don’t consider myself a spokesperson for the SP, or even an SP notable, but I’ll say it. I never got involved in this with any idea that I’d even make the ballot, much less that VD would run his own campaign or that there would be a ballot sweep. If I’d known that, I wouldn’t have participated. To the extent that I’ve been part of that, even unknowingly, I apologize.

Translation: "Please don't try to kill my career, it's not MY fault!" Of course, the truth is that all four Puppy campaigns were a convoluted plot concocted by Kary English to get herself a Hugo while leaving Brad, Larry, and I to take the blame for everything. We were naught but puppets in her insidious scheme. I have also heard that she is responsible for Benghazi and the overthrow of the Ukrainian government, as well as the upcoming Greek referendum.

It seems I can’t say anything remotely in that vein without someone saying that if I truly thought that, I would withdraw. I’ve already given my reasons for not withdrawing, but I’ll mention again that a large part of it is not giving Vox Day the satisfaction.

I think it's interesting that she thinks I have given her any thought whatsoever. Kary, my dear, I don't give a quantum of a damn what you do. Withdraw, don't withdraw, retire to a nunnery, it makes absolutely no difference to me.

All that stuff about nominating liberals just to watch them self-flagellate and see how fast they withdraw? I’m not his marionette, and I won’t dance to his tune. He set us up to be targets, just like he set up Irene Gallo. I’m not giving in to Vox Day.

And yet, here she is frantically dancing without me even bothering to so much as whistle. As for Irene Gallo, I'm afraid Ms English grants me infernal powers that are, as yet, sadly not at my disposal. Ms Gallo set herself up for dismissal without my help; no one asked her to attack Tor's customers, Tor's authors, or Tor's products. No one asked her to violate the Macmillan Code of Conduct.

As several of the VFM have pointed out, the SJWs have it all backwards. They have to think that I am somehow duping thousands of idiots and fools into openly opposing them because the alternative is to accept how massively unpopular they are and how dismally their decades-long campaign to tell people what science fiction they may and may not read has failed.

What should frighten them is not the idea that Brad and Larry are the moderates in this regard. What should frighten them is the fact that I AM THE REASONABLE ONE here. Because the Evil Legion of Evil, the Dread Ilk, the Ilk, the Rabid Puppies, and above all, the Vile Faceless Minions, are not here to negotiate.

This is the nugget that just keeps on giving the comedy. When one of Them realizes that neither Vox or those under his banner are interested in doing the modern conservative negotiation dance you can practically hear their sphincter get tight, or you know, do the other thing that sphincters do.

I've been leaning towards voting for Totaled, because it's quality work. I can see why the Puppies nominated it. But apparently she's got to be a nasty, ungracious little snot about this to test my ability to be objective.

I am absolutely here to negotiate. Unconditional surrender, at least two, and a growing list now, heads to roll, and an unlocking of leftist nominations, even if that means cutting them out of everything. I don't always get your (Vox) efforts. I know you don't care. But, I mean, you REALLY don't care. Some of us don't care, but that's pretty one-directional. You seem as flexible with allies and enemies as Hannibal is with morals and ethics. Is it just rudeness that turns your switch? Dunno, but it does seem to lack any real prejudice. Mostly.

Anyway. As I said, I am here to negotiate. On a platter, silver platter, and show some respect. I suppose you (Tor) don't have to paint clown faces on the heads, but it would go a long way to make the day a happy, or happier one. Love me some dead clowns. Just a hint in the pillow talk, babies.

This minion was favorably disposed toward Kary English because she's a friend of Brag Torgersen, and I like Brad. But this is just stupid. Weak too. I don't much care for weakness and stupidity, not to mention ingratitude and trying to curry favor from nasty, weak, ugly enemies.

So screw her and her writing. I used to like Stross and Scalzi too. No longer read them.

Does Ms English think the SJW are good people? I could care less what she thinks of me, being part Sigma I ignore females as much as possible, silly drama from silly people not worth my time unless she can do the unspeakable naughty things I prefer.

Now if she fears the SJW I would like to know what specific rhetoric that they use that gives her the piddle panties.

apparently she's got to be a nasty, ungracious little snot about this to test my ability to be objective.

But imagine the fun if she won. The anti-Puppies would never let her forget it, and the cognitive dissonance among the anti-Puppies saying the Puppies demand ideological conformity when an anti-Puppy got a Hugo even after that display...

Heads asplode.

This is a decision to be made on quality, not posturing. Pick the best work. Make the Hugo mean something again.

Vox, you dishonorable cur! How dare you wage your RP campaign and succeed in such spectacular fashion! We all know of your evil ways, oh Dark One! Your wicked aura causes helpless-but-otherwise-strong-and-independent womyn to spew unprofessional invective against their constituents! Your mad schemes of nominating works that you like has caused this righteous, empowered maiden to be forced, FORCED to stay in the running for a prestigious award... lest she withdraw and allow you to win the day, somehow. And let's not even BEGIN to discuss the dark sorcery you used to get memberships for all of those vile faceless minions! Fear not, brave rabbits of SF/F, surely brave Sirs Scalzi and GRRM will bravely vanquish this beast!

People like Scalzi and other SJW types are often victims (willing, self-deluded victims) of the fantasy that history is progressive and because we were fortunate to live in a time of great material progress that humanity will never return to the darkness of widespread ignorance that preceded us. Allied to this fantasy is the notion that good somehow always triumphs over evil. Their attachment to the neo-nazi slur is a reflection of this fantasy as it involves their ignorance of history. They are true believers of the Axis=Evil / Allies=Good manichean idiocy.

So the idea that Vox might win threatens far more than a momentary setback. It threatens their entire fantasy worldview and the flimsy artificial personalities they've constructed on this shaky foundation.

Personally, I've long been a fan of the dictum propounded by Gary North:

And, yet, she didn't prevent Galaxy Press from using her Hugo nomination as a selling point:

Kary English is one of the latest new writers published in the L. Ron Hubbard Presents Writers of the Future anthology. In addition to winning the Writers of the Future Contest, Kary has been nominated for a Hugo for her story, Totaled. What an impressive start to her writing career!

What a cowardly cur this Kara is. She saw SP1 and 2. She knew how little social justice claptrap she had to cram into her story to avoid a puppy nomination.

And she didn't do it....how hard would a few completely irrelevant to the story paragraphs of 'the gay relationship back in college was my true authentic self' for a few of the leading characters have been?

Social Justice Warriors....she knew better and she refused to honor your pieties. Kara English consciously sided with the puppies. She is the enemy...hound her relentlessly....drive her out.

Happily, I've already read and disliked Totalled, so I don't have to worry about not letting her response influence my vote. And that other and similar story of hers in her Campbell packet was a traditional ghost story, not SF&F at all.

Here's the thing, as I see it. "Totaled" is a good story. Now, I have a choice. Judge it by my standards or hers. By mine, it ranks in the top 3 of short stories; holding a position for a potential rightful win. But it's evident she wants no part of being judged on her work, preferring to apologize for even being considered because puppies cause bad-feelz. "Please don't try to kill my career, it's not MY fault!" -Voxlation

Now, I could claim the high ground and vote according to my standard, her puppy protestations and apologetic groveling be damned. But I ask myself, is that fair?

"I’ve already given my reasons for not withdrawing, but I’ll mention again that a large part of it is not giving Vox Day the satisfaction."

So which would be better? "Totaled" could rightfully win, but such shame she'd feelz at winning; the taint of the puppies forever nipping at her heels. On the one hand, that would be delicious. How wonderfully I can apply my standard and yet achieve a twisted end. Oh, the irony.

Then there's the Noah Ward. Allow her what she seeks; noble defeat, being even better than the noble withdrawal. She could hold her head high as she walks away, not having given Vox Day the satisfaction and to the applause of her SJW bretheren, redeemed because it "wasn't my fault".

This is a decision to be made on quality, not posturing. Pick the best work. Make the Hugo mean something again.

No. The Hugo awards will only "mean something again" when SJWism is totally defeated and driven out of the process. Only then would I grace the ungrateful witch with my vote, and even then...only if her writing was clearly and measurably better than the alternative(s).

@Scuzzaman"People like Scalzi and other SJW types are often victims (willing, self-deluded victims) of the fantasy that history is progressive and because we were fortunate to live in a time of great material progress that humanity will never return to the darkness of widespread ignorance that preceded us. Allied to this fantasy is the notion that good somehow always triumphs over evil."

But of course. And the fact that they may be vanquished is merely proof that they were insufficiently faithful to The Cause. If they merely continue offering their prayers to God-King of Equality and Fairness Barack Obama, sacrifice a few more cisgendered white males,(themselves excluded, of course) and shriek loudly enough they shall surely triumph over the big bad man and his hoards of fascist trolls.

@Scintan

L. Ron Hubbard is a man known by everyone in the broader culture(who hasn't been living under a rock) as the founder of a cult that brainwashes, swindles, and sexually abuses its membership. It is also well-documented that he himself participated in these practices. Vox Day is by all accounts a conservative Christian known to make harsh public statements against detractors, and some have alleged that these statements were bigoted in nature. It's very telling that Ms. English felt compelled to make a public show of distancing herself from the latter but not the former. What a brave new world we live in.

Concerning the story: I was not impressed. It seems to be a religious (christian) parable of some kind and, adding to the annoyance over the vocab, I have the distinct impression that JCW is showing off how smart he is. I bet there are a bunch of references that I do not get because of how dumb and uneducated I am and didn’t do my bible studies diligently enough. (Or ever ;) ). So now everyone knows that JCW is able to actively use a lot of randgruppen** words, knows his christian mysticism and is so very educated.

As you can see, the story’s prose and style annoyed so much that I barely was able to follow the actual story. Can’t be much good then. I didn’t like it.

"is showing off how smart he is"

This. THIS is womething I see often from people who think they are smart, but aren't. Directed at people who actually are. I've lost count at how many times I've heard "stop trying to impress with big words".

I don't. The other really smart people I know don't. We use the best fitting words for the job so we don't have to use five others to get across the concept, context, and implications. We don't TRY to use big words, we know them. In contrast, we actually have to WORK to figure out the sets of smaller words to use to get the same full meaning across.

"I don’t care whether an author’s politics are right, left, center or upside down. If their work is good and suits my taste, I’ll buy it and read it. Shunning an author or a group of fans because their political views are different from my own? I disavow it." - Kary English

Apparently some of you are insufficiently intelligent to grasp the significance of your comments being deleted, so from now on commenters who respond to Obvious will have their comments spammed along with his. If you start getting spam-trapped as a result, tough. You deserved it.

Ugh. I read "Totaled." Or at least I tried, but I have very little patience for pretentious present-tense claptrap, so I didn't make it all the way through. Haven't read anything else in that category and it's already sitting at #5.

I truly enjoy reading JCW, he expands my mind, opens new horizons, and in this day of gadgetry, if he writes something I don't quite understand, I can find out in seconds just what he is alluding to and why. Of course the fact that I am not ignorant of the Bible helps too.

Does the ignorant whiner expect us to accept his bad review because JCW's work made him feelbad? Would we accept a bad review of Einstein's theories by someone who didn't understand them? No. What a self confessed idiot.

@Vox: You have picked up my cut-and-paste error from the roundup (which I later corrected). The following paragraph is actually part of a post by Lela Buis, not Kary English:

"A few blogs back, I did suggest that Day was in marketing mode with this Rabid Puppies scheme. His name has been up there in the lights for weeks now. The interesting thing is, so has the Hugo Awards, WorldCon, Tor Books, Irene Gallo, Moshe Feder and Patrick and Teresa Nielsen Hayden. I’d be willing to bet Tor comes out with a little spike in sales."

The Hugos are like your grandparents old house in a neighborhood that's become 'vibrant.' Sure, you could kick out the crackheads, replace all the wiring, plumbing, and fixtures that've been torn out. Renovate and reseed the lawn. Hope it encourages others to gentrify the neighborhood, so you don't wind up spending loads more than the finished project is worth.

Or you can have the satisfaction of burning it down with the crackheads inside. That'd be my inclination.

Also, it should be noted that it is not our side that is threatening anyone we consider insufficiently radical. Moderation is a capital offense for the other side. We only go after moderates when they start shooting at us. Which, sadly, seems to be a habit with them. The fools think it will save them from the SJWs. Ha! It won't even get them saved for last.

VD,come on, just ADMIT IT ALREADY. You used dark Jedi powers to MAKE Irene type out that post about us all being neo-nazis. She resisted at every keystroke, but your evil evilness was just too strong. As the fearless leader of the VFM you really need to be honest with them and tell them the truth!Also... can you get PNH and the Toad of Tor to commit ritual seppuku next? Just saying.

"All that stuff about nominating liberals just to watch them self-flagellate and see how fast they withdraw? I’m not his marionette, and I won’t dance to his tune. He set us up to be targets, just like he set up Irene Gallo. I’m not giving in to Vox Day."

Who exactly is targeting you, Kary? Until today I don't remember seeing your name mentioned by anyone on this side of the junkyard fence. We don't threaten to send you to the corn field for holding badthinkz. Leave us alone and we'll leave you alone. Golden rule, Kary. You were nominated based on merit and now you spit in our faceless faces and grovel to the CHORFs.

I've been waging personal boycotts for the last 15 years over gratuitous insults just like hers. If you haven't read her story yet why bother now? I won't. If the Tor boycott is on next year would you vote for anything Tor that made the ballot? With a few millenias' worth of books to choose from, avoiding her scribblings is not a loss.

To be perfectly fair, the Writers of the Future Award does actually seem to award good work. I've read a few of their anthologies, and the stories are always excellent. I would trust a collection of Writers of the Future over a collection of recent Hugo winners. I used to send to that contest myself. Never won, and now I'm ineligible.

SJW fiction is the new Soviet Socialist Realism; you know, all those dire Soviet novels no-one ever read because they're all about how wonderful Communism is, and just repeat the same plot over and over again of the Glorious People's Tractor Factory workers sacrificing everything to exceed their quota for the latest Five Year Plan, since that's much more important than family, friends, or any other selfish individual desires.

And I don't mean that as a joke. It's exactly the same kind of 'message fiction' being pushed for exactly the same kind of reasons. Just a slightly different message. The only thing they lack is the power to prevent publication of any books which step outside the pink prison of Social Justice Realism, the way the Soviets did.

It's sad, too. I read a free SF ebook from Amazon a few days ago, and it was pretty good other than the entirely spurious gay relationship between the two military pilots who were the main characters. That immediately added another author to my 'do not buy' list, not so much because they were gay as because there was absolutely no story reason for them to be that way and the author apparently just threw it in to be SJW-compliant.

I would trust a collection of Writers of the Future over a collection of recent Hugo winners.

Me too.

I would trust the Church of Scientology itself long before I'd trust the science fiction SJW crowd.

Scientologists may be odd, but they haven't tried to tell me that Redshirts was the best novel of 2013. Or that I'm a "neo-Nazi". Or that I should stop reading books written by white men.

And whatever you think of the late Mr Hubbard - and I don't think much of him, other than a grudging sense of admiration at his sheer chutzpah - he was a bona fide science fiction writer who loved the genre. I'll take Battlefield Earth over genderqueer racial climate change feminist dinosaur parables any day of the week.

Achillea - I have very little patience for pretentious present-tense claptrap

Is it the present tense that makes it pretentious? Or is it pretentious anyway and you just don't like present tense?

Asking for a friend who's writing a story and not sure which tense to use. Let's call him, eh... "Jeeve".

No, wait. That sounds like a gay butler. Let's call him "Irondick McCoolguy".

So "Irondick McCoolguy" really likes the immediacy of present tense, and how it flows when you're also writing in the first person, but also doesn't want the story to read like it's a 16 year old girl's MySpace blog, or something.

So he was concerned about that. But the pretentious thing is giving himself another angle to ponder.

Is it still pretentious if the story includes a scene where a guy punches a leprechaun in the balls? Because he totally does. Bam! Right in the lucky charms.

She's right about Irene though. You purposefully put off bringing up what she had said (while having seen it almost immediately) to maximize the impact of making it into an issue.

That's irrelevant. The problem with what she said has nothing to do with how I handled it. You're trying to get people chasing a red herring. Gallo is responsible for herself. Nothing I do, or don't do, can justify her actions.

It's also false, but I have no intention of explaining why. Until the moment suits me, of course.

How utterly disgusting... but in the spirit of Pink SF tolerance, I'll overlook anything that has to do with child abuse. Just be thankful that their names weren't associated with people that hurt women's feelings. That would be unforgivable, in comparison.

"Is it still pretentious if the story includes a scene where a guy punches a leprechaun in the balls? Because he totally does. Bam! Right in the lucky charms."

Depends on if the leprechaun is wearing a bowler or a top hat. But I don't care either way; I want to read that story.

I think of first person present tense as a way to personalize the narrator a bit. It lets you know that he is uneducated or doesn't know how to tell a story or something similar. It can be effective for short pieces but I don't know if I could handle it for a whole novel.

I think the reference to second person was a reference to "If you were a dinosaur my love". I hear it's also a popular style in children's books and S&M porn.

She doesn't realize the SJW's will never accept her "apology", and her grovelling to the SJW's means the Puppies (of all sorts), VFM's Dread Ilk, Ilk, Minions and even the unaligned like myself will never be able to take her seriously as an author ever again.

What a way to get the worst of both worlds. Throwing herself on a sword in the Roman manner would have been more merciful and at least quicker than the method she chose for self immolation.

We use the best fitting words for the job so we don't have to use five others to get across the concept, context, and implications. We don't TRY to use big words, we know them.

Well said. If you're comfortable with a lot of words, you're constantly choosing between different ones, mostly without thinking about it. When I choose a word I'm influenced by a bunch of things: the exact meaning I have in mind, my mood, my style, the subject matter, the audience, the other words in the sentence, the rhythm of the sentence with that word in it, and other factors like assonance and alliteration (See?). But very little of it is conscious; most of the time one word just seems right, and sometimes the right one is a big one.

You purposefully put off bringing up what she had said (while having seen it almost immediately) to maximize the impact of making it into an issue.

Now there's a statute of limitations? Cool. I think I'll call it Gallo's Law - "If you don't call me on it immediately it doesn't count." Thanks for that. (Alinsky #4) Citations for contemporary criticism is henceforth required when dredging up old quotes.

89. Yellow Bracers-You purposefully put off bringing up what she had said (while having seen it almost immediately) to maximize the impact of making it into an issue.

Let he help explain how people find out bad things said about them. One of the girls at work told me I was seen coming out of the hair salon owned by the mom of a co workers baby daddy. So the next time I was there I mentioned the interconnection, & a scheme she had talked about against her baby daddy & the baby daddy's brother. Even if they stalked the single mom they most likely wouldn't have known about the scheme before hand. Someone probably forwarded the info to Vox, along the same lines as people will warn others their ex is talking bad about them.

98. Cail Corishev June 28, 2015 8:39 PMIf you're comfortable with a lot of words, you're constantly choosing between different ones, mostly without thinking about it.

heck, i know a lot of words.

i know a lot of words BECAUSE I LIKE KNOWING WORDS.

what's part of the reason why i like reading JCW? BECAUSE he uses words I DON'T KNOW.

i'm curious about them, you see. it amuses me how often a dictionary and Bulfinch's Mythology and Wikipedia / Google come in handy whilst reading some Wright. that's a large portion of the fun of reading him.

it doesn't surprise in the least that Rabbits should be disturbed by Wright's knowledge of these things. for, you see, they are only permitted to 'know' concepts previously approved by the Warren ...

BOB K MANDO: "what's part of the reason why i like reading JCW? BECAUSE he uses words I DON'T KNOW."

Quoted for truth.

BOB, have you read Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun? He mined the OED for strange words instead of inventing his own. Then, cheekily, he has the narrator say this about a dullard: "He mispronounced quite common words: urticate, salpinx, bordereau."

112. automatthew June 29, 2015 1:07 AMJust suck it up and admit that you're Ilk, bob.

a - nobody has ever patched me inb - you are REALLY going to piss off LL, if you take away from her the only social dominance game that she can even attempt to play on mec - i've been talking about Militant Atheism since the late 90s. i didn't join you all, you joined me.

So now everyone knows that JCW is able to actively use a lot of randgruppen** words, knows his christian mysticism and is so very educated.

As you can see, the story’s prose and style annoyed so much that I barely was able to follow the actual story. Can’t be much good then. I didn’t like it.

Given this, and their apparent inability to recognize nicknames, The Goblin Emperor must really have left them stumped, what with all of the different titles (depending on familial relation and societal position) and the different level of formality-in-speech (three, by my count) with which the members of court can be addressed.

No. The Hugo awards will only "mean something again" when SJWism is totally defeated and driven out of the process

I've not read the story (I should buy a Sasquan membership already), but I get the impression that there is no hint of SJWism in the story. The author's views are irrelevant to the story. The fact that the author is fearful of (already suffering?) fratricidal attacks from other SJWs is delicious irony.

Who knows, this could divide the SJW camp. One side's authors would use the aforementioned tactic of putting SJ messaging in every story to avoid any hint of non-conformity, and any threat of Hugo nominations from WrongFen. The other side's would quietly leave the messaging out and express shock-horror that WrongFen actually like their SF that way (and hoping for a sales boost from a nomination), while dodging attacks from the first camp. We sit back and munch popcorn.

There's the possibility that the SP/RP campaign has been gamed, and this is precisely what English set out to do without realizing the consequences. If so, it appears we got one good story out of it.

You objejct [sic]? I don't care.

Play it how you like, but recall that the SP objection to SJW message-fiction is that it was stilted and boring and made Hugo nominations more of a "do not read" list. Giving an award to a good story by a bad author discredits the anti-Puppy line by exposing it as projection, strengthens the Puppy "brand" and has potential for (even more) high hilarity.

My POV may change if/when I read the Hugo packet. I may not like this story at all, but I'm not going to decide that based on the author's politics... this time.

'Then, cheekily, he [Gene Wolfe] has the narrator say this about a dullard: "He mispronounced quite common words: urticate, salpinx, bordereau." '

Gene Wolfe has a second bit of cheeky joke atop the first. The man speaking (and the man of whom he speaks) are both members of the ancient guild of Torturers. Urticate means to lash a victim with nettles, a type of torture a professional torturer might indeed come across frequently. A salpinx is a trumpet, such as might well have been used for sounding the hours in and about the Tower of the Torturers. A bordereau is a ledger book, such as officers of the court, such as torturers, might well used on a daily basis for noting things like prisoner transfers and executions carried out.

In other words, Gene Wolfe is so cheeky (by which I mean he is a genius) that not only does he have his narrator comment wryly on the richness of the vocabulary by calling these words commonplace when they are most obscure, he selects obscure words which might well have been commonplace for the narrator speaking the line.

Wolfe also loves bad puns, as displayed in the closing paragraph of his story "Copperhead" (itself a pun):

"In his new realm, where Time sang like a brook, the new President picked himself up and stood stock-still to listen. The trees in a wood far away were barking; on the cliff that rose behind him, a mountain ram winded its horns."

Play it how you like, but recall that the SP objection to SJW message-fiction is that it was stilted and boring and made Hugo nominations more of a "do not read" list. Giving an award to a good story by a bad author discredits the anti-Puppy line by exposing it as projection, strengthens the Puppy "brand" and has potential for (even more) high hilarity.

Point taken. However, we must all remember that "message fiction" need not be stilted and boring; SJW message fiction is invariably stilted and boring because the message sucks. OTOH, Atlas Shrugged is pure "message fiction" (some call it sci fi), while it's also an exciting, rollicking, uplifting yarn (it sells and sells, even to today).

Bottom line is I choose my reading and authors I support as follows:

1. Great stories with good messages (cf. Atlas Shrugged, Starship Troopers).2. Great stories without obvious messages (cf. Monster Hunter International, The Chaplain's War.3. Marginally written stories with good messages (no one to be named).

I do not read or support the following:

A. SJW message fiction (stilted, boring, and supports the destruction of civilization).B. Authors whom I discover are SJW's (why should I support someone who supports the destruction of civilization?)..