I don't know about you guys but uh...I am pretty sure Lex in the justice league series was in fact black or at least had a rather vague cultural heritage. Not all black people have the same skin tone and features.

I don't understand the thought process that leads to the assumption that, in this scenario, the decision will have been made to 'make him black', and 'for the sake of it'. Is it impossible that somebody would be chosen on merit, irrespective of race?

The very fact that the character they are casting is white (unless they don't give a damn what he looks like) disqualifies anyone who isn't from being tested. If they cast a black actor it's because the people behind it have chosen to or are willing to accept a black Lex Luthor. Why? Well....no reason because they don't care how Luthor physically looks. <<< Which I really highly doubt though, so that again comes back to changing it for the sake of changing it.

Quote:

In any case, I have yet to hear a convincing explanation of why Lex' s race is important.

It's important in the same way that Superman's hair color and costume colors are important, because that is how he looks. That is the character.

The very fact that the character they are casting is white (unless they don't give a damn what he looks like) disqualifies anyone who isn't from being tested. If they cast a black actor it's because the people behind it have chosen to or are willing to accept a black Lex Luthor. Why? Well....no reason because they don't care how Luthor physically looks. <<< Which I really highly doubt though, so that again comes back to changing it for the sake of changing it.

you seem to continue to be unable to process that the movies are NOT the comics, and, despite the continued bringing up of the racial ambiguity of TAS Lex (which is more than iconic enough to have an impact on such a thing), you seem to think his skin color is important. the ONLY truly iconic thing about his appearance is that he's bald. and again, when it involves which PERSON you cast, it stops being change for the sake of change, because it starts impacting the actual portrayal, which is the entire thing that sells the character. Spacey and hackman, while both could easily have owned the role with decent material, were instead given pure garbage to work with, and despite fitting the profile, both failed to capture the character. I don't give a damn if the comics haven't done it because I don't know how many freakin times people have to say this to you, but, the movies are NOT the comics.

because unlike something like blonde hair, it could actually have an impact on the role itself, not because of the race, but because of the actor, I'm not suggesting that Snyder and co. go out and do a manhunt for a black or asian lex, I'm not suggesting they change it just to change it. I'm suggesting that they keep all options open, because there's doubtless quite a few non-white actors that could very well do very great things with the role, and it'd be a shame to see them not be considered because of something as shallow as skin color.

How would blond hair not have an impact on the roll yet a different color of skin does? If Paul Walker would have made an awesome Superman, would they let him keep long blonde locks? NO. You can bet your ass they'd dye his hair.

So they can test other actors who don't look like Luthor phsyically (skin, hair, etc), but they'd better CGI him or dye him so he looks like Luthor. That is the only way that's okay to me.

Quote:

And would you stop with the, "if it's not in the comics" BS, this is film, an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT MEDIUM, it's just as viable an alternate take on characters as Marvel's Ultimate line (where they've made their fair share of changes, though I'm sure you'll have some stupid excuse for why you think this is a different situation)

If it is something that is better or just as good as what is in ANY of the comics, then to me, it's okay. If it's something that isn't, then it needs to not be done. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Luthor is one of those things and as are many of the other things we mentioned.

Good example of something that wasn't in the comics but was used in the movies and was an improvement to something that was in the comics was the organic web shooters. That, IMO, drives home the "spider" part of "Spider-Man". Changes like that I'm okay with. These other changes and most of the other ones, 90% of the time, are TERRIBLE, and should not be done. (20ft Hulk, etc...all that stupid ****)

The very fact that the character they are casting is white (unless they don't give a damn what he looks like) disqualifies anyone who isn't from being tested. If they cast a black actor it's because the people behind it have chosen to or are willing to accept a black Lex Luthor. Why? Well....no reason because they don't care how Luthor physically looks. <<< Which I really highly doubt though, so that again comes back to changing it for the sake of changing it.

Why do you find it so hard to see that skin colour just doesn't matter to all people the way it seems to to you? I can easily see a director finding the actor he thinks fits and giving little thought to his race.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Smith

It's important in the same way that Superman's hair color and costume colors are important, because that is how he looks. That is the character.

I find that reasoning completely inadequate.

__________________"Myth and high culture have much in common. Each is concerned to idealise the human condition, to lift it free from contingencies". -Sir Roger Scruton

I don't know about you guys but uh...I am pretty sure Lex in the justice league series was in fact black or at least had a rather vague cultural heritage. Not all black people have the same skin tone and features.

He was based on Telly Savalas, who was of greek descent. He was not black by any means. Lol. Bruce Timm wouldn't have done something that radical with him.

Why do you find it so hard to see that skin colour just doesn't matter to all people the way it seems to to you? I can easily see a director finding the actor he thinks fits and giving little thought to his race.

As long as they make him look like Luthor (white, bald, tall, suit, etc), then it doesn't matter who plays him. CGI or Tropic Thunder the **** out of him, I don't care. Luthor must look like and be Luthor.

How would blond hair not have an impact on the roll yet a different color of skin does? If Paul Walker would have made an awesome Superman, would they let him keep long blonde locks? NO. You can bet your ass they'd dye his hair.

So they can test other actors who don't look like Luthor phsyically (skin, hair, etc), but they'd better CGI him or dye him so he looks like Luthor. That is the only way that's okay to me.

If it is something that is better or just as good as what is in ANY of the comics, then to me, it's okay. If it's something that isn't, then it needs to not be done. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Luthor is one of those things and as are many of the other things we mentioned.

Good example of something that wasn't in the comics but was used in the movies and was an improvement to something that was in the comics was the organic web shooters. That, IMO, drives home the "spider" part of "Spider-Man". Changes like that I'm okay with. These other changes and most of the other ones, 90% of the time, are TERRIBLE, and should not be done. (20ft Hulk, etc...all that stupid ****)

"How would blond hair not have an impact on the roll yet a different color of skin does?" I did NOT say that, never would say that, and NEVER WILL say that. reading comprehension is important, please try to work on it. I did not say it would impact it. I said refusal to look at actors because of it could impact it, as long as the actor they choose is able to have presence, come off as ruthless, brilliant, egomaniacal, than they can capture it, if the actor is good enough, their skin color wouldn't matter, because their performance would make you believe it. Lex's ethnic background is not something that's a big part of his character, and considering how racially mixed the world is(he doesn't have to have a non-american accent if he's not white), I really fail to see how it's a big deal, as long as he has a strong appearance, looks good in a suit, and has a bald noggin, then I don't see how it's important

Lex doesn't have a background that's in ANY way effected by his race, and considering the racial ambiguity of TAS Lex, (again, possibly the GA's most iconic Lex) I fail to see how race plays an integral part in his casting, his appearance (apart from being bald) is nowhere near as iconic as Superman's, nor does his appearance have any sort of role in who he is.

If they paint the guy white and make him bald then I'm fine with it. Luthor isn't bald, it's a change that doesn't enhance or improve the character in any way, so he needs to be left the way he is. Doesn't have to be just like the comics, but where the comics aren't broke, they don't need fixed.

I hear ya Kevin (and points for the Telly Savalas, I can definitely see that) but I just don't see how a change in race would affect a movie lex in any other way than just visually. If he walks, talks, acts, and exudes "lexness" than I do not see how changing his race could hurt the character in any way. However, I do understand why it would bother you, as I could see the change being strange or "alien".

Animated luthor had a deep voice and drawn lips. Only black characters have drawn lips in that animation style. Thats why I thought he was black.

This face doenst scream white

He looks more white than black to me, in fact, he doesn't look black at all to me. I'd have said mexican (maybe?) before black. Lol. I think you guys are really reaching here.

Quote:

Really though Kevin Smith your starting to sound like the guys who hated Daniel Craig as Bond because he was blonde.

I do see your point a bit. For a iconic character like Luthor to be white in the comics to suddenly become black would feel a bit unsettling and distracting because its something new. If Dwayne Johnson was was a better actor I wouldnt mind him getting the role. Hes not white or black and would provide a nice middle ground

It's just unnecessary and stupid to me. Don't change something unless it isn't working or is wrong in how it is.

Quote:

I just think alot of people, including myself, want to see more ethnic groups in super hero films. The problem is since comics were made so long ago 99% of the characters are white. John Stewart as Green Lantern is a nice start and I'd like to see more of that

I'm fine with more ethnic groups in films but I'm totally against changing the race of established characters who are working fine in their own right. John Stewart works because he is John Stewart...not black Hal Jordan (even tho the JL/JLU show stole most of his story and elements and gave it to him (and Rayner...but there is no Hal Jordan in the DCAU)).

If they paint the guy white and make him bald then I'm fine with it. Luthor isn't bald, it's a change that doesn't enhance or improve the character in any way, so he needs to be left the way he is. Doesn't have to be just like the comics, but where the comics aren't broke, they don't need fixed.

film Luthor is not a comic Luthor, and comic Luthor is not a real person, and his race is not a fundamental aspect of his character, I fail to see why he needs to be white, heck, if I was casting purely on appearance my choice would likely end up being racially mixed. painting an actor white for the role strikes me the wrong way on a lot of levels too, if being white was a cultural element that the character felt strongly about, then maybe, but it's not.

__________________"Lets make one thing very clear here - Nolan's films are as faithful an adaptation as there is. It pays homage to its source material, remains true to its characters and above all else places the story first and foremost." - jmc

I think the fact that we are even arguing the race for the animated lex makes it clear that he is racially vague, Kevin. With that in mind, it shows how a change in race wouldn't really be that dramatic.

film Luthor is not a comic Luthor, and comic Luthor is not a real person, and his race is not a fundamental aspect of his character, I fail to see why he needs to be white, heck, if I was casting purely on appearance my choice would likely end up being racially mixed. painting an actor white for the role strikes me the wrong way on a lot of levels too, if being white was a cultural element that the character felt strongly about, then maybe, but it's not.

Ugh. Goddammit. Why is it so hard for people to see they should just look how they are supposed to look? Like their comics counterparts. That's what they are! Keep the mainstays of them. Chris Reeve dyed his hair when he played Superman. Chris Evans bulked up. Routh even wore blue contacts. It's all about BECOMING that CHARACTER. So if whoever they cast cannot LOOK like that character, through one way or another, then they have no business being in that role. Period. I don't care if it's Johnny Depp.

Ugh. Goddammit. Why is it so hard for people to see they should just look how they are supposed to look? Like their comics counterparts. That's what they are! Keep the mainstays of them. Chris Reeve dyed his hair when he played Superman. Chris Evans bulked up. Routh even wore blue contacts. It's all about BECOMING that CHARACTER. So if whoever they cast cannot LOOK like that character, through one way or another, then they have no business being in that role. Period. I don't care if it's Johnny Depp.

there are more ways of becoming the character than just painting your face white. also, I wouldn't mind the change either, as long as it's not change for change's sake and the actor delivers a great performance, then I'm fine, DC needs some more diversity anyways, and you are one of the few that thinks Lex would be a dramatic change.