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Wednesday, October 26, 2011

Anarchy

This is a hilarious description from Slate of how a drum circle threatens to derail the whole Occupy Wall Street movement, specifically one or two crazy people that I would like to think are sociopaths messing with the hippies. Apparently no one can stand the constant noise of the drum circle and so leaders of the movement have been trying to consult with "leaders" of the drum circle to get them to limit the amount of time that they play:

Unfortunately there is one individual who is NOT a drummer but who claims to speak for the drummers who has been a deeply disruptive force, attacking the drumming rep during the GA and derailing his proposal, and disrupting the community board meeting, as well as the OWS community relations meeting. She has also created strife and divisions within the POC caucus, calling many members who are not 'on her side' "Uncle Tom", "the 1%", "Barbie" "not Palestinian enough" "Wall Street politicians" "not black enough" "sell-outs", etc. People have been documenting her disruptions, and her campaign of misinformation, and instigations. She also has a documented history online of defamatory, divisive and disruptive behavior within the LGBT (esp. transgender) communities. Her disruptions have made it hard to have constructive conversations and productive resolutions to conflicts in a variety of forums in the past several days.

Sound like anyone we know? But it does warn of what happens with a group of leaderless protester/followers with any defined concrete commonality:

Friends, mediation with the drummers has been called off. It has gone on for more than 2 weeks and it has reached a dead end. … We need to take this seriously, and be clear that if we can’t deal with conflict and self-organizing then we are facing eviction very soon (this week), and the allies that helped turn out mass numbers at the last one will not be around this time, nor will the press be supportive.

I'd say absolutely. When there are no rules to constrain the imagination a sociopath could do wonders. I'd think every PD on earth would love the state of disorder we call anarchy. A high-functioning sociopath who counts on the system he has created would hate when some new anarchy destroys it all, I suppose. Hmmm, now the answer boils back down to it depends.

It sounds like a fun playground, but I'm sure I'd get the most benefit out of an authoritarian society like the Roman Empire or Nazi Germany. Can you guess why?

Of course it would be better still to enact order from chaos. What this disruptive female is doing, though, is fine for shits and giggles that will keep her happy for like five minutes, then its back to the boredom again.

Unless chaos gives you a chance of becoming some kind of dictator, then order trumps chaos. Strangely though, both anarchy and fascism, though they are widely viewed as polar opposites, are both preferable from my own perspective than our political system that has the worst traits of both yet the benefits of neither.

It's harder to obtain power in a entrenched power structure like the roman empire. You have better chances of winning the lottery than to be born into nobility. Outside of that great leaders were thrust into power by riding the winds of disorder and chaos in history.

Drummer girl won't be leading shit. She's marching to the beat of her own drum.

As far as chaos goes, it is a matter of carpe diem, but frankly I doubt it's always a deliberate power play. More like just a natural ability to both survive, thrive, and overcome chaos for your own means. When the cards and down and everyone is going wild, the most outspoken, brash, and capable people will come out on top. That's just how the natural order works. When the alphas are dead, new ones fill the old shoes and life slips back into order.

There's no higher authority to stop us from doing whatever we like. We're still killing eachother and destroying the world every day. Our rules are whatever we say they are and can be changed in a heart beat. Laws are only as good as the strangle hold kept around the people they're forced upon. Rewards aren't handed out for doing the right thing, they're taken by people who lie and cheat their way to the top while those who try to do good are left broken and nowhere. As always the strong survive and the weak perish. Civilization is a mask. I think the world is anarchy disguised as civilization. Just like me.

"I'd think every PD on earth would love the state of disorder we call anarchy."

I'm going to have to disagree with this statement. S/P and narc PDs maybe, but of the other dozen or so anarchy would only make things worse.

The upheaval of anarchy, the uncertainty drives paranoia and doubt. It makes reality harder to hold onto. It makes it impossible to depend on anything. Structure is something that a lot of PDs need in order to function. Without a stable structure that's when things go from bad to hell in a hand basket.

my mother fits the criteria for a borderline, my father is a narcissist. i'm not over exaggerating. he really does display all the behaviors of a narcissist.

it's a very bad situation for a child to be raised in.

she wouldn't let me be myself when i was a child. she was dead set on keeping me in a bubble, in which i could do no wrong. i told her that she abused me, but this woman will never accept blame for her actions, she has too much shame inside. i am doing everything in my power to destroy this woman.

BPD seems chaotic in its expression but more often it's a desperate attempt to gain control and structure. It's not a willful determination to throw everyone else off balance (though that's what tends to happen).

I have a freind with BPD and she has been centering her life around a guy that shows all signs of ASPD and a son who's 16.

Her relationship with her son is needy and it's caused him to be withdrawn from other's his own age but he relates to her as a parent. She has had him take naps with her and sees this as how close they are. Flips on him whenever he says anything about her bizzare behavior to be the center of attention. It's outright embarrassing. She says things to embarrasses him also in front of anyone and complains about him not socializing and how much money he costs her if he does want to go some place with freinds.

He is completely invisible or she uses him as an excuse. USES HIM is the foundation to their relationship.

Chases this other guy and it's been 2 years now. Obsesses over him constantly. Even gets up in the night to drive by his house.

Fucking with the heads of Beepers is no fun, it's too easy. Messing with narcs is much more entertaining. Also, anarchy isn't necessarily synonymous with chaos. As a political ideal it simply means their are no leaders. as for sociopaths thriving in this type of situation; All the ways socios interac with our current society would be thrown out the window, a complete rethink of manipulation would be required. But I honestly think socios can thrive in any environment, we are survivors afterall.

"Anarchy is to power what love is to power."A shaman once told me that.

Just kidding . . . or maybe not.

Power and love, are unpredictable yet trackable evolving states. They both require real actions to fully develop. And certain personality types crave it more of it than others. Yet everyone is involved in the dance.

Or so say the drummers or anyone ever swept up in a movement or in the throes of love

Specifically regarding post:Is it true that sociopathy thrives in anarchy?

Or better question does mental illness serve in times of chaos?

Heard an NPR interview of Nassir Ghaemi on his book, "First-Rate Madness: Uncovering the Links Between Leadership and Mental Illness"

"Ghaemi explores the relationship of mental illness to creative leadership in times of crisis. He explains with great clarity the myriad meanings of mood disorder and other illnesses and ties this analysis to compassionate historical discussions of many of the most--and least--successful major leaders of the past two hundred years."

I want a man who HAS real maturity, not someone who is pretending. That is why *I* am trying to get real maturity. I want to be ready if he comes across my path. I meet many attractive men, all day long, in my line of work. I have gotten very particular, though. I will not pay attention to 90% of the men who seem to be interested in me. I am just not interested, back.

Not a problem anymore. I'm still trying to figure out the girl I recently dropped, after a two week romp. She said she's had to masturbate excessively since she was very young. Her other partners would kick her out of the bed for doing it... but I was curious.

She masturbates to pacify a lot of urges, needs, sadness, boredom, etc.

That's how she explained it to me anyway. She doesn't just do it to get off, but almost for security.

I see. It's interesting. I dont think I have a personality disorder. Likely I have a mood disorder. I've done a lot of reading into PDs, wondering if maybe one of them would explain my behaviors but none of them do.

My friend wants to go to occupy LA to protest. I asked what it was precisely that she wanted to protest, but she doesn't really know. I'm all for protesting but not just for the sake of it. Protesting just to protest seems kind of silly to me.

A little advise I won't be repeating, Bluebird: SW is probably that last place you want people telling you what your problem might be. Most of the people here would like nothing more than to make you think you're the dumbest, craziest, lowest piece of shit, on planet Earth.

Get thee to a therapist, or stop trying to figure it out. People who self diagnose spend endless amounts of wasted energy, and time... obsessing over why they do the things they do.

Eden, that is probably good advice. This is a good place to shoot the shit and it can be fun to watch all the personalities at play but now that you mention it I probably shouldn't expect any helpful insight about myself. It might be helpful to try therapy at some point just to see what a therapist would say about me. It's expensive though, and I'm supporting myself right now, can't expect any finacial help and I don't have any form of health insurance really....

I had a friend tell me that I was the kind of person who wouldn't ever be able to "figure it all out" with a therapists help-that somehow I'd have to work through and figure out my issues on my own. Dig myself out of the hole through intensive introspection.

I was going to answer haven but I don't really know, perhaps opening up to much about yourself here doesn't really get you too far.

It's not so much about having issues as it is trying to understand what makes you weak enough to have them. Anyway things aren't all so bad for me...I have lots of friends, I like my job and I'm doing well in school. I'm not sure if he's a sociopath anymore. There were things that definitly made me think so, and most sociopathic traits accord with him very well, but aspects of his behavior are very different from UKan here, or Mis. I kind of came here to this blog in the first place wondering if he was truely a sociopath or not. I used to just read ME's blog in order to get a better 1st person picture into a sociopaths head and much of what ME wrote made me suspect more strongly that he was sociopathic. But now that I've started interacting with you guys, like mis and UKan, I'm not positive anymore. Some people defy definition.

why would you want to fuck with a narcissist? you get nothing out of fighting strong people, if anything you'll get flattened. trust me, you won't get the better of a narcissist in an argument. messing with unstable borderlines is much better fun.

if a bad thought pops into a sociopaths head, the sociopath will probably do it.

we don't have that voice telling us it's going to hurt the person or whatever. it's more the case of if we can get away with it or will her old man beat the shit out of me if i rob her etc. we are very sneaky.

a sociopath will probably let you off the hook, if you offend them. not a narcissist. if you wound a narcs ego, they will do everything to destroy you. it's very easy to make the narcissist lose their temper.

talk about other people and leave them out of the conversation, watch what they do.

easiest way to take down a larger opponent if all else fails is to go for the throat with the back of your hand and cut off air supply. most people will expend all their energy trying to over power the opponent which can be exhausting. you need to find key spots and wait for the right moment.

Are you alluding to physical violence? Not so useful in every milieu. Money is a more typical means of exercising power.

Words are weapons. Narcs and Sociopaths both decimate reputations with well placed innuendo. Either can have persuasive charm. The primary difference is a sociopath believes their objective, the narc believes their ego-- they get kinda rabid about any cracks in their reflection.

Bella...I don't think I have a personality disorder, although I've thought about it. None of them really fit my personality. I had this big book of personality disorders I used to read through quite often....for fun and because it was interesting but of course in the back of my mind I was paying attention to whether anything described fit me. And nothing really did or has. I think I might have bipolar but I hope not.

Money doesn't mean influence or power. I've had both without having a dime. Some people aren't motivated by money. Giving money in the face of a threat would be seen as cowardice. I don't live the evryday miliue and never really have. Take for instance yesterday I went and met someone to setup a new line for product. I had told one of my earners that to keep a eye out for someone selling so I could find a new wholesaler. I told her that if we made a agreement I woukd reward her 500. Originally she found this guy in a free market area that was pushing. She told hin her boss want to meet him about the product he has. He scoffed at her and was a arsehole. She told me about it, so I started scheming to have him robbed. She told me to hold off because she had another guy. I met up with this other guy yesterday and by coincidence we brought up the arsehile nd the guy said he worked for him. He was his protege. He gave me a price that was ridiculous. I refused and told him to give his boss a offer that I would supply a product I had that he couldn't get a hold of if he coukd get my other product line back up. He said his boss planned on monopolizing the trade in my area of the product line that I'm currently having issues with. His protege had a big mouth. I told hin to give hin the offer anyway. If he disagrees I will come down on that upstart and decimate him. That's how I settle disagreements.

If you start spending all your money on gambling and hookers and then attempt to kill yourself after the mania has passed, then I would start to question myself if I was you. Until then I wouldn't give it much thought.

I think it isn't so much that sociopathy seeks or thrives in anarchy, but more that anarchy has a very high demand for sociopaths. To many sissy academics, not enough strong leaders. So i think sociopaths just naturally fall into anarchistic situations to fill the natural demand for someone a little less feely.

Lol. Mathematics was actually the only subject I failed on my exams and--ironically--also the only subject I studied for. Although it was only three hours, most of which I spent doing nothing.

Anyway, isn't the whole 'point' of sociopathy/psyhopathy its adaptability? So why would you argue about what environments it would thrive in? Clever sociopaths could use practically any situation to their advantage, no? Anarchy is simply a blank slate, something that has to be turned in something else first, before you can make a profit out of it.

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Of course, my default is still to intuitively analyze every outcome and situation and achieve the best result, but it's more interesting to let people remain a variable and go in their own direction, rather than nudging them in the direction I prefer. Interacting with people WITHOUT trying to control them is a new paradigm for me.