our total can reach almost 25 million dollars. it's a nice reflection on us all. now through january 2nd. get 0% apr financing for 36 months on a 2013 subaru forester and we'll donate 250 dollars to your choice of 5 charities. hello, everyone. i'm tamron hall. the "news nation" is following leaders warning their colleagues not to make holiday plans with new doubts today over fiscal cliff negotiations. >> the president seems to be walking us ever so slowly towards the cliff. we have said we are committed to staying here. we are going to stay here right up until christmas eve. throughout the time and period before the new year. >> now, their warning followed a 15 minute phone call between john boehner and the president

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described as tense by the news team. a characterization, the speaker himself disputed. >> i remain the most optimistic person in this town, but we have serious differences. the president and i have frank conversation about just how far apart we are. >> democratic sources tell us the phone call fell apart because the latest counter proposal included an extension of tax cuts for the wealthy, a permanent extension. another that was disputed. the press secretary reiterated that is a non-starter for the president. >> they refused to accept the fundamental fact that higher income americans, millionaires and the billionaires, the top two% are not going to have tax cuts extended. the president made that clear. >> now with negotiations stuck

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dare we say in neutral, a new poll gauges the reaction of the american people who could all be of course looking at a higher tax bill. the abc "washington post" poll shows 47% of people approve of the president's handling of talks and 48% disapprove. the speaker's approval just over 20%. the opposite number there is 54%. the disapproval number. joining me in from washington, kelly o'donnell. let's talk about why the conversation last night fell apart with the president and the speaker. this issue of extending the tax cuts for the wealthy. speaker boehner said that was not a part of his proposal. >> one of the things we have been observing is the president and speaker have been trying to lockdown as much as possible the secrecy or privacy may be a better word of their conversations to get to an eventual deal if they can get

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there. by that i mean there fewer staffers involve and member who is would typically have standing to be included in these negotiations. it's such a tight focus of the president and the speaker. characterizing the nature of the phone calls is keeping the public aspect moving forward. it allows the president to have public events. we have seen him meet with business leaders and mayors and be able to make his argument to the american people. republicans had a harder time of that because they are not in the same position to hold the public events. speaker boehner's approval rating is taking a beating. the top tax rates that is a core issue for republicans, even though we are hearing from more of them, a handful of members in both the house and senate talking about the likely hood that that will in fact happen. the highest earners will pay more. that would likely be the last piece of the puzzle in a negotiation. i'm hearing from people in both sides say expect this to keep

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going and a likelihood if a deal is achievable it will happen close to the deadline seems to be the thinking. they are telling everybody to be prepared to be here during the holidays. we are hearing that as well. there is sort of a resignation that it's going to be a long process. >> thank you, kelly. great le appreciate it. the national political reporter for the atlantic democratic strategist keith bicycle in. amy stoddard, associate editor for the hill paper. thank you all for joining us. let me start off with you. we are going to show our audience later the headlines or a couple of the headlines out there. if you look at one, you can find one within a second that said the opposite meaning some say the talks are stalled. others say that things are moving along behind the scenes. how would you describe what's happening? >> what i hear from my sources on the hill is contradictory things. there seems to be more optimism and confidence on the democratic

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side. they feel like this is going to happen. republicans are as you say much more lick le to point out how far apart they still are and how little progress has been made. that is true. there hasn't been movement by either side from the positions they started with. i think the discrepancy comes from the fact that democrats are watching republicans peel off one by one and have these internal conversations that makes it sound like there is openness even if nothing has come on the table that is concrete. will we be here through christmas or will congress be here through christmas? that's a real possibility, but both sides don't think we will go off the cliff. >> a lot of people at home won't have much sympathy for lawmakers stuck working there if the word is stuck working or doing their business. let's talk about the counter proposals here. the president lowered the

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revenue target from 1.6 trillion to 1.4 trillion. the white house increased cuts from 400 to 600 billion, but the republican counter proposal according to the team essentially the same as the original proposal at $800 billion in revenue. who do we make of who is moving and who is not? >> well, the problem is, tamron, that the republicans are likely going to move on rates. they can't say that on december 12th. what you have is these internal conversations referred to about whether or not and when this to reveal they will fold on this critical political hot potato for them. they will need to be offered a win on entitlement reforms. really aggressive reforms. they are not willing. they will not vote for one point for a trillion in new revenue. getting to 800 will be hard.

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they claim they won on that and that's looking on reforms. not the paul ryan plan and looking at the consumer price index for inflation and looking at raising the eligibility and means testing and medicare. those are the things that house speaker boehner and president obama talked about in july of 2011. that is going on behind the scenes. that's the sticking issue and so on the debt ceiling. if president obama wants them to give on taxes, he must give on that. if he doesn't, we will go over the cliff and he is looking at a bigger fight in january over the debt ceiling. everyone is focused on the tax issue, but the real focus is what is in exchange for a debt ceiling increase. is it substantial medicare reform? >> i don't agree that the press is not talking about it. we know that is the big battle ahead. i think that part of the confusion and your point, all of these republicans, both those that are elect and control the radio airwaves have all said we

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are going to see the tax rate for the wealthiest americans go up. for some reason, we can't or we won't any time soon see speaker boehner get before a microphone and say we know this is part of the deal. to that point, what do you make of the negotiations. at least the finger points and i'm not doing this and you are not doing this, this thing we are watching play out here. >> i suppose it's a good thing that the negotiations between speaker boehner and president obama are taking place behind the scenes. the public kabuki dance that is going on for the media to cover. the reality it seems that president obama is in a strong position. the republicans are going to have to concede at some point. what speaker boehner is doing, democrats may be waiting until january 3rd when he is reelected as speaker to get something done.

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i'm not sure i have insight on that, but that could be the strategy here. the problem is the president has been flexible. he reduced his target from 1.6 trillion to $1.4 trillion. he moved on the issue of the corporate tax reform which is something republicans wanted. republicans haven't moved at all on spending. they are saying we want you, president obama, to tell us what spending cuts we should propose. that's not the way it works. you are the people who ran all year long saying we need to cut more in spending. tell us where you want to cut, republicans. that's not what president obama ran on. he ran on raising the top tax rate for the top 2%. that's what he wanted to do and what he should focus on. >> let me play what the president said in a new interview with abc regarding taxes. let's play it. >> taxes are going to go up one way or the other. i think the key is to mick sure that taxes go up on high end individuals. we can afford it.

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it is entirely possible for us to come up with a deal, but time is running short. >> our team points out that we see the white house is being cautiously optimistic about a deal while the house republicans are cautiously pessimistic. we still have a ways to go. as you heard the president say, time is running out. what do we make. warning to house republicans that we could be working through the holidays s. that significant at this point? >> yeah. i think it's also darkest before the dawn and people have to freak out before they get ready to deal. it's not until the pressure is on and the deadline is upon us. people realize that it's going to be too late really soon and they are really ready it get down to brass tax. part of the democratic strategy has always been this posture of we are so crazy and might do it. we might go over the cliff. that's what gives them leverage and at the same time as boehner tries to get the votes, he has to convince his members that they can scream and faint and

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not lick it all they want. there is a real deadline here and i think they are not going to stay on december 12th, but when it gets later and they are up against the wall, they have to deal. >> real quick, this poll that we showed where the speaker is suffering greatly according to the one poll about his handling of the situation. how do we factor that in? >> speaker boehner has done a good job of telling the party base he is fighting as hard as he can to keep tax cuts for every bracket and do it as deep into december as he can. he will fend off fights as much as he can and make sure they don't spill into the public. republicans behind closed doors lost this battle of the american people voting. >> more people disapprove of the way he is handling this. >> 60% of the country want the president's policies and house speaker boehner is disagreeing with them.

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in the end as we have been saying, he is probably going to relent, but so far he continued to say publicly we can't give on that even though he is going to. >> thank you. >> good question. >> we are out of time. >> molly, thank you as well. the labor groups are considering a major counter offensive now that michigan has become the 24th right to work state. >> right to work is wrong! right to work is wrong! >> rick snyder signed two right to work bills into law after they were pushed through, the statehouse democrats in michigan insisted their fight is not over. >> good ideas get debate and bad ones get rammed through with police protection in a lame duck legislature. i will say this. this fight is not over. >> joining me now a radio talk show host michael smerconish and

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inside michigan politics. michael, i will start with you. you have a number of labor leaders out and they are putting boots on the ground in states like pennsylvania where they are preparing to square off against republicans in a sense of pay back for what we saw in michigan. >> right. you take a look at the pennsylvania legislature controlled by republicans. so too is the governor's mansion and you can say the same about ohio. the take away here is if it could happen in michigan, it can probably happen in a host of other states that are in the rust belt or the midwest. not just sunbelt states where unions have been on the ropes for years. the ripple effect will be very significant. i look at what's on the horizon and chris christie who had issues with unions. he is up for reelections and corey booker is taking a long hard look at that election and this will be the galvanizing issue for the next cycle.

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>> let me play what mary kay henry said to rachel last night. let's play it. >> we are reawakening and going to build a powerful movement. make it crystal clear that snyder can't get away with this. >> bill, we heard again this threat in wisconsin after what we saw and what labor leaders describe as an attack on unions there. the governors that are set to be in jeopardy, rick snider and scott walker, john casic and rick scott. are the threats something that the labor leaders can pay off? >> there is not any evidence right now. they were energized this year and got the signatures to put this on the ballot in michigan proposal to enshrine collective bargaining and got over 600,000 signatures and it got clobbered by an almost 3-2 margin on november 6th.

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they can huff and puff right now, but they are playing defense is what it gets down to. >> we talked about the options in our first read. they can file legal actions charging the process and violated the states and opened meetings act and overturned it bypassing a voter initiated law. are those two long shot options there? >> well, there will be a lot of litigation. no question about that. they will do everything they can in court and maybe that's the best chance of success. in terms of an initiative or referendum, the bill that passed the legislature innoculates the law for being challenged in a referendum. it's got an appropriation in it. i don't see a way you will get an initiative drive that could do anything before 2014 which is say regular election. there could be recalls, but guess what. today the republicans are voting

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on a bill to amend and reform the recall law here in michigan to make it tougher to recall legislators. >> that would box in any recall there. let me bring you in as well on this. there was an article that i read that discussed the labor mistake or the mistake that is really not talking about the history and the value that these unions have brought to this country. they noted that how many people in the crowd of 10,000 or more yesterday were not young people who may not get why unions are still important even though many believe that the manufacturers, for example, that we sigh in illinois and michigan may be a thing of the past and people who are software designers or technology designers are so important to the future as well. somehow we lost perspective on the historical significance of labor and why it's important. >> i think they have a messaging

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problem that you identified and there is an additional component that i think they should be articulating which is the imbalance that now will result in a post citizens united world. by that i mean you will have business interests, spending like never before. you saw that in the cycle we just conclouded. the antidote to that often has been the union influence. being able to put boots on the ground funded by having members that will now be eliminated by a right to work status. what i'm saying is big business will have a leg up in a post citizens united world. >> it's a great pleasure having ow again. thank you both. president obama calls it a big step in a new interview. the president recognizes the syrian opposition for the first time. >> the syrian opposition coalition is now inclusive enough and reflective and

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representative enough of the syrian population. >> the "new york times" said the announcement draws a sharper line between the elements of the opposition and the u.s. supports and rejects. i will talk to bobby gauche. a "wall street journal" poll being released tonight, the question, do you think leaders in congress should compromise or stick to their positions when it comes to the budget deficit? that is the question. how would you answer? we will show you the results of our poll. i will show you the conversations on twitter. it's on tamronhall. the holidays are here and we're here with cyreeta talking about the walmart low price guarantee. that's your receipt from another store? it is! let's put it to the test. alright! that's walmart's everyday low price. get out! ok, but i'm taking these! ready? yes. there you have it! that much? that's the walmart low price guarantee. see for yourself. bring in your last receipt and see how much you can save. be ready. with the season's tastiest brands.

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welcome back for the first

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time. president obama formally recognized a coalition of syrian opposition groups opening the way for the rebels fighting the regime of assad. the recognition comes as the white house confirms to nbc news that assad is more desperate and started using scud missiles. >> we're made a decision that the syrian opposition coalition is now inclusive enough, is reflective and representative enough of the syrian population that we consider them the legitimate representative of the syrian people. >> joining me now, deputy editor bobby gauch. does this provide help to the rebels? >> it is not yet clear. the united states did not say it will provide arms. it opens the door wider and the u.s. is coming late to this party. a number of other allies of the

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united states have given recognition and giving them arms and assistance. the u.s. is among the last reported stamp of approval. >> what are do you think the approval was meat at this point? part the united states has had concern fist are a long time that among the many groups, some have close ties to al qaeda and the obama administration didn't want to give the recognition to that particular group. in recent days, they have identified one group and put that down on the terror list and to all the other groups, we put them down as terrorists. we are happy to have the rest of you as long as you keep them out of the picture. some of the other countries that have given the syrian rebels as a larger umbrella. they are not making that distinction. it's a bit of a fine legalistic point. >> we're know the importance of

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needing to make that. it is linked as an affiliate of al qaeda that the president feels are a representation of the syrian people. >> about a month ago, they got the rebels together and said listen. they had lots of political differences and the united states essentially said you have to get your act together. come to an agreement and a month later that is happening in morocco. the u.s. and the obama administration feels comfortable saying we are with you guys. >> what about the news we just got that the officials have confirmed for the first time and the military using scud missiles directed at the rebel fighters. is this the last act of desperation? >> it feels that way. he started by using ground troops and tanks and helicopters and jets. now scud missiles. that's the last weapon. short of chemical weapons, we we hope he doesn't go there. he is feeling the news come

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around and has been a lot of fighting for several weeks in and around damascus in his capital. he can hear the gunfire from the windows of his palace. >> thank you very much, bobby for your time. a short time ago, the un security council condemned the missile and said it brings them one step closer of striking nuclear weapons. they called it provocative and susan rice said the council is working on how to respond to the north's violation. >> we are very much ready to engage with our colleagues on the council and we will be searching for a clear and credible response. we have some elements and aspects that we think are important and others have theirs and we will come to an agreement. >> china is an ally and

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expressed regret over the launch. we report that north korea may have up to a few dozen nuclear weapons that could be fitted on top of ballistic missiles. just in the past hour, police in oregon gave us an update on the mall shooting that left three people dead. we are learning the identity of the shooter. plus as the administration deals with the new laws legalizing marijuana in washington and colorado, former president jimmy carter weighs in on legalizing pot. >> i'm in favor of it. i think it's okay. >> that by the way is one of the things we thought you should know. [ male announcer ] red lobster's hitting the streets to tell real people about our new 15 under $15 menu. oh my goodness! oh my gosh, this looks amazing! [ male announcer ] our new maine stays! 15 entrees under $15, seafood, chicken and more!

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a deadly shooing spree at a mall outside portland, oregon. police released a picture identifying him as jacob tyler roberts. roberts killed two people and seriously wounded another before taking his own life. >> during this attack, he was armed with an ar 15 semi automatic rifle. the rifle was stolen yesterday from a person known to the suspect. at the time of the attack, he was wearing a load bearing vest and not a bulletproof vest that was earlier reported by some outlets. he was also wearing a hockey-style face mask and we have not yet been able to establish how many shots were fired during the attack, although we believe he was carrying several fully loaded magazines. >> jay gray joins us from near portland. jay, do we know any more

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regarding this man's background and what would have motivated such a horrible crime? >> obviously that's the question here and at this point police say they do not have any solid evidence about what a motive may have been. they do say apparently roberts did not know his victims and this was a random attack in the mall. the investigation continues and will be for sometime. they are going through this area and consider the entire mall a crime scene. they have a lot of ground to cover there, wanting to find any evidence that may lead them towards that motive. we also know as you heard that he didn't have any body armor on. he did have on a hockey mask. they talked about their response to this attack. it could have been much worse according to the investigators. save the fact that they actually moved in and they actually had trained at this facility this year. they knew exactly what to do

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when they arrive and did not wait on the s.w.a.t. team saying they studied other attacks in the past. they went in in pairs and limited the scope that roberts could cover. they say they believe that helped to save lives as well. the investigation continues in this community and they continue to try to work through the shock that they are still experiencing right now. >> thank you very much, jay. coming up, the confusion over what's really going on with the fiscal cliff talks. our first read team said just look at the headlines. senior political editor mark murray joins me live. which of the headlines does he believe is more accurate. check out the "news nation" tumbler page and you will find behind the scenes pictures. i guess we took this to mark 12-12-12 and we do you wanted hospital. maybe some of us will go to the concert to help sandy relief.

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start saving at citi.com/pricerewind. >> we are willing to make sure that everyone in america sacrifices. even though who have been struggling. >> if speaker boehner exercises the leadership and brings in a balanced program, he can pass that don't do it by getting the support of within your own party. you need reach out to democrats. >> to get something through the house and the senate. it's going to take both. the revenue and the spending cuts. >> house members are willing to compromise to avert the fiscal cliff. what are the people at home thinking of their actions. we have a pri view for a poll that debuts tonight. part of that is compromising what folks want to see from the lawmakers.

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>> a lot of americans want to see compromise. according to the poll, 65% want a compromise balanced deal to reduce the deficit. even if they have to reduce the entitlement program like medicare and social security and the republicans on have to support increase in tax rates for the wealthy. of course you were playing a lot of clips from people open to compromise. it does seem to be the broad parameter that want a balanced deal. that's what john boehner and president obama are currently arguing about. par are it's interesting, mark. you and the team noted the confusion, if you want. maybe because of the leadership. the headlines and the ap has the headline fiscal cliffs appear to be stalled and the hill's headline edge towards the deal and deficit reduction negotiations. are both true? >> both are true and you have to look at the totality of the

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story. today is wednesday and you and i have been having this conversation for a while. you have some type of deal as we are headed to this weekend. this is about the give-and-take. we saw the white house who reported they went from at one point $6 trillion in revenue that they wanted. down to 1.4. i wouldn't be surprise fed that continues to go down. the most important thing as we pointed out, both sides continue to talk. even if the phone calls right now are not all that pleasant, even if they are tense, the fact that they are still talking is a pretty good sign that a deal can get done. >> realistically would we get to the point where they would not talk? especially on the tax rate issue alo alone. the evidence from the polling and point it a solid proof of at least what the american people expect on that issue. >> that's right. a lot of the pessimism comes

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from the debt ceiling deal when john boehner walked away and stopped returning some of those phone calls. i think there is skepticism because of that past experience in 2011. as you pointed out, there seems to be more of an appetite for compromise and we just came out of a presidential election where pop campaigned on the balanced deal and won decisively. >> thank you, mark. great pleasure seeing you. right now, stocks are up after the fed announced it will maintain an aggressive program to help revive the economy. they are up about 41 points. investors are laser focused of course on the fiscal clip talks. joining me now is cnbc's launch show. like what the headlines are regarding how the talks are going. the majority said the investors are patient and wall street is patient. we read an article that said make plans with their money.

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>> a lot of people have been selling stocks ahead of the fiscal cliff that presumably will include a rise in the rate on capital gains and how dividends had the income that a stock may pay will be taxed in 2013. some of them are selling today when they know and that sort of income will be. however the stock market has been on a glide path over the past couple of weeks. this signals two things. that investors had this before the deal end. it doesn't matter because as it slips into january. it will be a resolution after congress comes back on the third of january or if not that before the president is inaugurated again on the 20th of january.

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you saw how the market is higher by about 40 points on the dow. >> thank you so much and good to see you. still ahead, thousands of voters waited in hours long line on election day like these folks in florida. eric holder is calling for voting changes. what he is proposing. one of the things we thought you should know. we will talk about how bob menendez is preparing for the next battle in congress, immigration. conservative leaders are giving cover to house republicans, fearful of the implications they support amnesty. [ male announcer ] at scottrade,

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aides say the next order of business will be business reform. they are reportedly working to provide cover for house republicans who fear political implications especially if a deal involves amnesty. they will hate it even more given that the issue is likely to come up after gop leaders have negotiated a tax increase. democratic senator from new jersey bob menendez, thank you for your time. i know the experience of the issue of immigration and you have an aggressive advocate. i wanted to ask you about this report that has just been published saying that an employee and legal immigrant which is a registered sex offender in your office is under arrest by immigration authorities. do you know anything about this report, senator? >> i just heard before i came on your show from the ap. here's what we know. we know we have a non-paying

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college intern program. this young man applied to that process and got recommended by the school. we asked status of all of those college interns and nothing indicated anything about his status. we certainly wouldn't have known through any background checks since he is say minor about any sex offender status. once it came to our attention, our new jersey staff director let the young man go from the program. that's all we know. >> he was arrested december 6th. do you know when this was brut to the attention of your office. >> my understanding is this monday. >> the homeland security department instructed agents not to arrest the 18-year-old until after election day. we know you were reelected in november, but according to a u.s. official involved in the case, in this ap report, homeland security department was instructed not to arrest him

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until after election day. do you know about a delay and arrest? >> absolutely not. i didn't know about the young man's status until this monday. actually before i came on to the program. my staff knew about it on monday. i didn't know until before your program. >> obviously this ties into it because if you are fighting for immigration reform and there was an illegal immigrant working in your office unbenounced to you or not, that does factor into your credibility and the conversation as well. go ahead. >> let's get clear. when you are saying working, he is an unpaid college intern. he is not a staff paid person. we have a bunch of college interns and give them an experience in the office and they answer phones and do some mail. most of the time attend lectures and different entities that we bring through the office. number two, no way we could know about his status. we ask about the status and number three is there is no way we could know about any

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allegation as a juvenile of what his background would be in terms of any criminality. that's the story. it does speak volumes about why we need comprehensive immigration reform. i can't know who is here to pursue the american dream versus who is here to do the damage. phi cannot get people to come forth out of the shadows and go through a criminal background check and determine who is here to pursue the dream and see who is here to have backgrounds that get to court. >> does that speak to the complexity of what plan would be offered up and as i pointed out, politico is reporting leaders are offering cover, if you will, to republican who is might vote or support a plan that would be called amnesty. obviously by critics when you have 11 million people in this country, 14 million according to data. what would be a viable plan that

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would protect those who certainly have not broken the law and not committed any crimes and do not deserve to be shuffled back to the country to wait an undetermined amount of time. >> first of all none of them supported his amnesty. that means you get something for nothing. away you go. you go on your merry way. everything that we proposed is what we called earned legalization. you must come out of the shadows and register with the government and go through a criminal background check. if you have a criminal background, you get deported. no tolerance for that. after you go to that criminal background check, if you have no criminal background, you must pay back taxes you may have earn and not paid. you must also learn english which is the first time for permanent residency that we require an english language requirement. you must wait your turn as those who have been waiting under the legal process get ultimately

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appointed first to their permanent residency and you get at the end of the line. if you maintained a good standing in our society during this period of time, you have a chance at permanent residency. >> what about the ideas according to the article that some leaders are perhaps cutting it up into smaller bills. in a sense what we are talking about with the fiscal cliff where there may be a deal on tax rates and later next year deal with entitlements in the deficits and debt ceiling and the other issues facing us. would you support backing away from a comprehensive legislation to perhaps piece meal it together or are we past that at this point with so many millions of people in the country illegally? >> there is a consensus growing that piece meal doesn't work. every time we had an individual element of the comprehensive immigration reform and taken one piece and putting it on the floor, it becomes where everybody else wants to add on.

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if you put ag jobs on the floor for the agriculture industry, the high tech industry said wait a minute, we need visas for high tech workers. site food industry said we need the low visas for ship hands. then you have the hotel and restaurant industry. you have a series of elements that become a demand. you are back to trying to solve the problem comprehensively. there is a agreeing consensus that we have to achieve through comprehensive reform. what that pathway to permanent residency looks like and how long it will take waiting at the back of the line and going through the process i talked about and what our future flows, all of the elements will be worked out. you are not going to achieve what you want for national security and the national economy by doing this. >> senator, i appreciate you coming on. you are aware of the breaking news developing and you did not cancel and you came on regarding this investigation of a senate

. >> welcome back. things we thought you should know. eric holder took a fight against voter suppression for calling against el vibl voters. the comments in boston yesterday echoed president obama's cent imts on election night when he addressed the long lines at the polls and said we have to fix it. former president jimmy carter weighing in on whether marijuana should be illegal. take a listen to an interview yesterday afternoon. >> i think we can watch and see what happens in the state of washington around seattle and let the american government and let the american people see does it cause a serious problem or not. >> former president george w.

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bush called into the show this morning after his daughter and nbc contributor jenna bush haeger announced she is going to have a baby. >> i'm fired up. looking forward to it. i'm excited for jenna and henry and i can barely contain the news when i found out. >> those are the things we thought you should know. time now for the "news nation" gut check. it's about those new right to work signs in michigan yesterday. the detroit free press is out with an editorial saying unions need to remind people who life was like without them. unions built the middle class and improved the standard of living for workers. do you think unions helped grow the middle class. go to facebook."news nation" to cast the vote. that does it for us. thanks for joining us. patty murray, former pennsylvania governor and the daily beast will all join the

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