Atheist Nexus2016-12-09T14:44:47ZJo Jeromehttp://atheistnexus.org/profile/MaryWoodhttp://api.ning.com/files/8QNmaJJFjJZER2fF3eAtSji*s4PTPkM5BKrfUoUAohtOhI8Pie3TG1zbAmz9blUbDHhUAWhy1f180KEk6CGelAQwh1J9TFGT/P1040771.JPG?width=48&height=48&crop=1%3A1http://atheistnexus.org/group/autismaspergersandatheism/forum/topic/listForContributor?user=01p9df9lu1xwe&feed=yes&xn_auth=no"All autistic kids are atheists and atheism is a form of autism."tag:atheistnexus.org,2013-04-29:2182797:Topic:22238182013-04-29T22:14:36.435ZJo Jeromehttp://atheistnexus.org/profile/MaryWood
<p><a href="http://www.examiner.com/article/all-autistic-kids-are-atheists-and-atheism-is-a-form-of-autism" target="_blank">"All autistic kids are atheists and atheism is a form of autism"</a></p>
<p>That's the opinion of sociologist Fehmi Kaya, Head of the Health and Education Association for Autistic Children in Adana, a city in southern Turkey.</p>
<p>He claims that atheism is "due to a lack of a section for faith in their brains." According to a Turkish newspaper, he calims that autistic…</p>
<p><a href="http://www.examiner.com/article/all-autistic-kids-are-atheists-and-atheism-is-a-form-of-autism" target="_blank">"All autistic kids are atheists and atheism is a form of autism"</a></p>
<p>That's the opinion of sociologist Fehmi Kaya, Head of the Health and Education Association for Autistic Children in Adana, a city in southern Turkey.</p>
<p>He claims that atheism is "due to a lack of a section for faith in their brains." According to a Turkish newspaper, he calims that autistic children don't know how to believe in God because the portion of their brains that enables faith is underdeveloped.</p>
<p>It may be true that we don't know how to believe in God, but isn't necessarily because some portion of our brains is underdeveloped. It's primarily because we can't get our heads as far up our own asses as the intellectual contortionist mentioned above.</p> Introversion and Asperger's....amazing overlaps!tag:atheistnexus.org,2012-01-18:2182797:Topic:18271532012-01-18T17:38:26.645ZJo Jeromehttp://atheistnexus.org/profile/MaryWood
<p>Read this article and replace the word "Introvert" with "Aspie" and see if it still doesn't hold (mostly) true. <br></br><a href="http://webmail-classic.windstream.net/do/redirect?url=http%253A%252F%252Fwww.carlkingdom.com%252F10-myths-about-introverts&amp;hmac=45b366c6e1541c116be8df60c78599ef" target="_self">http://www.carlkingdom.com/10-myths-about-introverts</a></p>
<p> </p>
<p>A lot of the personal memoirs and reflections of self-described "introverts" and "loners" that I have read since my…</p>
<p>Read this article and replace the word "Introvert" with "Aspie" and see if it still doesn't hold (mostly) true. <br/><a href="http://webmail-classic.windstream.net/do/redirect?url=http%253A%252F%252Fwww.carlkingdom.com%252F10-myths-about-introverts&amp;hmac=45b366c6e1541c116be8df60c78599ef" target="_self">http://www.carlkingdom.com/10-myths-about-introverts</a></p>
<p> </p>
<p>A lot of the personal memoirs and reflections of self-described "introverts" and "loners" that I have read since my DX, I read and think "undiagnosed Aspie".... </p>
<p> </p>
<p>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Here's some more articles for further reading on introversion: <br/>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <br/>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href="http://webmail-classic.windstream.net/do/redirect?url=http%253A%252F%252Fl-pawlik-kienlen.suite101.com%252Fthe-introvert-a13661&amp;hmac=0340a6e3aed1c32368cdf4f6e59ecce6" target="_self">http://l-pawlik-kienlen.suite101.com/the-introvert-a13661</a> <br/>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href="http://webmail-classic.windstream.net/do/redirect?url=http%253A%252F%252Fen.wikipedia.org%252Fwiki%252FExtroversion_and_introversion&amp;hmac=521fd2a774b49047ad2bfdfbc626a1b8" target="_self">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extroversion_and_introversion</a> <br/>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href="http://webmail-classic.windstream.net/do/redirect?url=http%253A%252F%252Fgiftedkids.about.com%252Fod%252Fglossary%252Fg%252Fintrovert.htm&amp;hmac=6727399c664186869bab99bb8af458b7" target="_self">http://giftedkids.about.com/od/glossary/g/introvert.htm</a> <br/>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <br/>&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href="http://webmail-classic.windstream.net/do/redirect?url=http%253A%252F%252Fwww.webmd.com%252Fmental-health%252Fnews%252F20011221%252Fnew-ways-of-looking-at-wallflowers&amp;hmac=970ed6e401f965af636ce83467ffa81c" target="_self">http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/news/20011221/new-ways-of-looking-at-wall<br/>flowers</a> <br/>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; --</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Now, I have met NTs who claim to be introverts, but I think they're rare. Maybe it's a lot like the relationship between Gamer nerds and Anime Otaku...not all of them are Aspies, but a lot of Aspies are Gamer nerds/Anime Otaku....</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I self identified as "introvert" before my DX, but it lacks the explanatory power &amp; legal protection of an actual A.S. diagnosis...</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p> The dating double liability: Atheist AND Aspie...tag:atheistnexus.org,2012-01-16:2182797:Topic:18231922012-01-16T01:08:51.649ZJo Jeromehttp://atheistnexus.org/profile/MaryWood
<p>Let's face it, we're a minority within a minority. We're already members of "America's most distrusted minority" = i.e. atheists, but on top of that, we're also Aspies on the Autism spectrum.</p>
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<p>My history of relationships with the gender I'm attracted to (I'm a heterosexual male) has been rather hit or miss. At 40, I've been married and divorced already, and have had some girlfriends through the years, though few of very long duration...so among many Aspergian men I guess in…</p>
<p>Let's face it, we're a minority within a minority. We're already members of "America's most distrusted minority" = i.e. atheists, but on top of that, we're also Aspies on the Autism spectrum.</p>
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<p>My history of relationships with the gender I'm attracted to (I'm a heterosexual male) has been rather hit or miss. At 40, I've been married and divorced already, and have had some girlfriends through the years, though few of very long duration...so among many Aspergian men I guess in some respects that makes me one of the lucky ones.</p>
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<p>I was struck reading John Elder Robison's latest book <em>Be Different</em> in his chapter on relationships, on how he relates that in most of his relationships with women, it was the woman who chose him rather than the other way around. I could also very much relate to how John Elder talked about his NT friends telling him to just nonchalantly go up and talk to girls...how it seemed to work for them but not for him. I had the same experience with an NT friend in High School who was very smooth with girls and said it was all about confidence...but he had a special "magic" that I could never seem to master myself...it's only later, looking back with my DX papers in hand that I realize it was because of my A.S.</p>
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<p>When I think back to my first girlfriend in High School, she definitely chose me; picked me out. She invited me over to her place...we watched a movie then she started making out with me, which came as a pleasant surprise. But when I exhibited jealousy (when she was being a bit too flirty with some college dude at a NJROTC meet held at a major Texas university--and it wasn't just me who noticed, everyone did and said things to me), she dropped me like a hot rock. I was evidently just a "boy toy" to her...easy pickings...I got a little revenge by flirting with her younger sister, who was slightly attracted to me for a time. Plus everyone in the NJROTC gave her the cold shoulder for hurting me so callously. She was year older than me as well.</p>
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<p>When I look back more critically at other past relationships and near-relationships, I see so many missed opportunities and missteps...all that hindsight being 20x20 stuff...that and the delayed reaction to certain emotional stimuli that is so common to those of us on the spectrum.</p>
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<p>Even in relationships where I was a bit bolder, it was always a mutual attraction...<br/><br/>My ex-wife before we actually got married was to that date my longest girlfriend-type relationship...we were together as a co-habiting unmarried couple for a full year before we tied the knot. The longest one before that was like 6 months...and my first post-divorce relationship was about 8 months, with an older woman who, like my first girlfriend, asked ME out casually for a beer...she was a recent divorcee like myself and we really had a good dating relationship that I only broke off because of having to move out of town to take the next available Library gig, which turned out to be bust after 2 years anyhow...the only thing I wasn't keen on were the 4 very big dogs she kept as pets that were way too small for her modest home. I'm just not a big fan of dogs...too licky, jumpy, over-friendly, etc...those were her "furry" children, and I made the mistake one day of suggesting maybe she had too many...very impolite of me, I discovered.<br/><br/>The experience of having someone of the opposite sex express attraction/desire towards me is almost always one of astonishment. I sometimes nicknamed myself "The Vulcan", since it seemed like it was just about every 7 years that I'd get laid ;-) It moreover feels like I spend so much of my life as an outside observer just looking in at life from afar. I'm filled with terror, horror, excitement, and a bit of squeamishness when someone (especially a girl) grabs me by the hand to yank me into the picture, to become an active participant IN the hustle/bustle of life itself....<br/><br/>I've also in the past turned down relationships because the girl was Christian and I took Christians at their word about the no-sex-until-marriage thing, etc. It was only later that I learned "yeah, they may SAY that, but...."; There was a really cute, flirty redhead at Texas A&amp;M Fish Camp named Melanie who was really clearly into me, but she was also someone who had been into drink &amp; drugs in her teen years and used religion/AA to get clean &amp; sober again....part of me really wanted her, but the intellectually honest side of me wouldn't let me pursue that relationship beyond mere platonic friendship.<br/><br/>Even in High School, I attracted the attention/desire of some rather beautiful girls but I also turned them down because they weren't very smart and had poor academic skills...I don't know why I had such ridiculously impossibly high standards for young women in my younger years...kept me from having many more relationships than might have been possible hadn't I been such a discriminating hard-ass....<br/><br/>I also used to have rigid views (I've become more flexible with age) that in hindsight I see were really disabling to normal, healthy relationships....such as a naive belief that one shouldn't be sexually intimate with a partner that one knew from the outset could not, would not ever possibly lead to marriage. That possibility HAD to be there in my mind to consider going and taking things to that level. That said, I never turned down one night stands of opportunity that (sometimes literally) fell into my lap, kissing me out of the blue...I'm thankful that I'm no longer so rigid in my views on relationships, at least not in those ways.</p>
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<p>Where I have drawn a (new) line for myself is on the question of dating Christians. I just can't anymore. Just can't go there, not even with "lapsed" Christians, because you never can tell when they will get "on fire" for Jesus again...I would prefer a dating a fellow atheist, though I'd accept Deists, Buddhists, even Pantheistic New-Agey hippie girls...and things might "click" more easily (or at least less awkwardly) with Aspie women as well as opposed to an NT atheist female.</p>
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<p>I did toy around with OK Cupid for a time, but only got a few tentative nibbles of interest before losing interest myself.</p>
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<p>The long-ish 6-month dating relationship before my wife was with a fellow school teacher I met in university education classes...she was Mexican-American, still living at home with her mom...so sex just wasn't in the cards, or at least I wasn't clever enough to play the right ones to get around the obvious obstacles. I think ultimately she just got bored of me, plus I moved out and away out of central Houston to a far-flung suburb, it got harder to stay in touch and involved, etc. I was a summer love for her that dragged on a bit longer than she wanted it to. Maybe if we'd found a way to be more physically and emotionally intimate there would've been more sparks to keep the fire of attraction burning, but again, that's all water under the bridge. An NT in similar circumstances might've managed, but as an Aspie male, I was not able to.</p>
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<p>The worst relationship I had was a year long mess of a love-triangle between myself and two co-workers...I flirted with the girl, who gently rebuffed me because she had a boyfriend already. I apologized and went back to minding my own business and keeping things "strictly business" with her. She then dumped earlier boyfriend for co-worker boyfriend...but then she got bored/stressed/dissatisfied with that beaux and started flirting with me again. I gently rebuffed her....but she wouldn't take no for an answer.</p>
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<p>So I started seeing her; she cheated on her boyfriend and had daytime dates with me (we both worked night shift)...she preserved her conscience by doing everything short of sleeping with me. As long as she didn't have sex with me, she could justify what she was doing to herself in her own mind, no matter how much it hurt both men in her life. I was the "surrogate boyfriend" who ministered to her intellectual needs and some of her nurture needs....while the other guy took care of her physical desires. I tried several times to break things off completely but she found ways to reel me back in...it was pure hell. Only after a year did I finally at last manage to break free. It all came to a disastrous end when the other guy got her pregnant, refused to take responsibility for it and dumped her. I got slammed by my NT friends for doing so, but I honestly told her she should get an abortion and not ruin her life. To my great relief, this is what she ended up doing, and I was there for her to help her pick up the shattered pieces of her life afterward, cradle her in my arms as she cried and cried afterward. There was too much built up bitterness and resentment on both sides to build a relationship out of that ash heap, and we maintained a kind of stony, cold-war like stand-off for a year. When I finally left the company to go attend graduate school, she called me up my last night in town...she slept with me at long last, as a kind of "goodbye gift", a consolation prize screw...again, no relationship ever sprung from it after, but I welcomed the experience...in hindsight, again, no relationship was probably possible anyway as she was religious and I definitely wasn't. She was a very messed up person and I think she knew she was and wanted, on some level, for me to have better, in her own twisted way of looking at it. That and our whole overall relationship was shot through with my own Aspie awkwardness and missteps that are only clear to me in hindsight...</p>
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<p>I do have one tentative prospect with an Aspie female in my area; she's 25 but her parents seem over-protective of her (her dad writes emails on her behalf, for example) and I think they're also a religious family...and she may very well be herself. Would be great if she could de-convert, but I'm not sure I'm up for trying that again with anyone...<br/><br/>It's tough enough for any atheist to find other atheists of the gender they're interested in for dating/romance...add to that the awkwardness that comes with being Aspie and the current disparity not only between Atheist men and women but between Aspie men and women as well...I can only hope the theories are correct, that women Aspies are currently very much under-diagnosed as opposed to men...women generally having better social support networks that "mask" and compensate for their Asperger hardships and social awkwardness and men far less so.</p>
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<p>Anyway, I realize this is kind of a random, ranty, meandering post and apologize for its being a rather disorganized jumble, but anwyay, just wanted to get these thoughts down and out there to share...</p>
<p></p> Temple Gradin (The Movie)tag:atheistnexus.org,2010-09-05:2182797:Topic:9674712010-09-05T15:59:08.616ZJo Jeromehttp://atheistnexus.org/profile/MaryWood
For those who don't know her, Temple Gradin is a woman with autism who grew up in the 50s and became very successful in the cattle business. She went on to write a number of books about autism and is an activist for autism. I have read a few of her books and enjoyed them. She is an excellent writer. This movie is the story of her life from starting with her college years. …<br></br>
For those who don't know her, Temple Gradin is a woman with autism who grew up in the 50s and became very successful in the cattle business. She went on to write a number of books about autism and is an activist for autism. I have read a few of her books and enjoyed them. She is an excellent writer. This movie is the story of her life from starting with her college years. <br/><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Temple-Grandin-Claire-Danes/dp/B0038M2AZA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;s=dvd&amp;qid=1283701162&amp;sr=8-1">http://www.amazon.com/Temple-Grandin-Claire-Danes/dp/B0038M2AZA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;s=dvd&amp;qid=1283701162&amp;sr=8-1</a><br/><br/><br/><br/><br/> Any other parents of children with autism?tag:atheistnexus.org,2010-08-28:2182797:Topic:9603792010-08-28T20:29:29.769ZJo Jeromehttp://atheistnexus.org/profile/MaryWood
My daughters are both on the mild end of the spectrum. The oldest has more problems socially than the youngest. We finally got a diagnois for her when she was three. We tired to get therapy for her much earlier, but the so called experts just kept telling us some kids take longer to speak (she was 4 when she finally started talking instead of screaming all the time.) Kids ave trantrums (not 12+ hour ones that lead to convulsions!) Finally, she threw a tantrum at the doctor's office which…
My daughters are both on the mild end of the spectrum. The oldest has more problems socially than the youngest. We finally got a diagnois for her when she was three. We tired to get therapy for her much earlier, but the so called experts just kept telling us some kids take longer to speak (she was 4 when she finally started talking instead of screaming all the time.) Kids ave trantrums (not 12+ hour ones that lead to convulsions!) Finally, she threw a tantrum at the doctor's office which convinced him to give us the recommendation for therapy our insurance required to get help. Four years and much therapy later, our dd is very nearly exactly like NT kids, although, she has problems maing friends and in social situations. <br/><br/>We homeschool her because the schools here are terrible and we do not want her to go through the same experiences (all bad) we have heard about other kids with autism having in the public schools. We try to emphasize good matters. I am hoping by homeschooling her and trying to control the situations she is in with other kids , she will have good experiences and form positive relationships. It took me a long time to accept that although she likes other kids she can take them or leave them. Family and ideas mean more to her than friends. Friends were super important to me as a kid, so it is hard for me to understand this take 'em or leave 'em mentality she has.<br/><br/>I have allowed my religious family to talk to her about their beliefs in god. She is confused about why people believe in statues. She told me about a month ago, "God is a statue. Grandma prays to a statue.: I thought it was hiliarious.<br/><br/><br/><br/> So, does Autism increase one's resistance to the religion virus?tag:atheistnexus.org,2010-04-21:2182797:Topic:8004532010-04-21T17:03:47.873ZJo Jeromehttp://atheistnexus.org/profile/MaryWood
Simply put, we tend to use more prefrontal cortex to compensate for our lack of instinctive/empathic communication. We tend to be more objective, more logical, more likely to require evidence before accepting an out-there claim and more likely to question even our own out-there claims.<div><br></br></div>
<div>While there are definitely religious Autistics (just visit Wrong Planet's <a href="http://www.wrongplanet.net/forum20.html">Politics, Philosophy and Religion</a> forum), it seems to me that…</div>
Simply put, we tend to use more prefrontal cortex to compensate for our lack of instinctive/empathic communication. We tend to be more objective, more logical, more likely to require evidence before accepting an out-there claim and more likely to question even our own out-there claims.<div><br/></div>
<div>While there are definitely religious Autistics (just visit Wrong Planet's <a href="http://www.wrongplanet.net/forum20.html">Politics, Philosophy and Religion</a> forum), it seems to me that if one could do a study, our numbers would come out with more Atheists per capita than NTs. </div>
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<div> </div> Theory of Mindtag:atheistnexus.org,2010-04-08:2182797:Topic:7855672010-04-08T22:07:30.781ZJo Jeromehttp://atheistnexus.org/profile/MaryWood
<p>In rooting around the internet for information on autism and asperger's syndrome, I came across several references to something called "Theory of Mind".</p>
<p>Calling it a "theory" is a bit of a stretch. It's basically the realization (or lack) that others do not have the same knowledge, thoughts, and feelings as we do. </p>
<p>This is apparently a concept that a Cambridge researcher, Simon Baron-Cohen (absolutely not to be confused with the social comic Sasha Baron-Cohen!) claims that NTs…</p>
<p>In rooting around the internet for information on autism and asperger's syndrome, I came across several references to something called "Theory of Mind".</p>
<p>Calling it a "theory" is a bit of a stretch. It's basically the realization (or lack) that others do not have the same knowledge, thoughts, and feelings as we do. </p>
<p>This is apparently a concept that a Cambridge researcher, Simon Baron-Cohen (absolutely not to be confused with the social comic Sasha Baron-Cohen!) claims that NTs have but that autistics and aspergians lack.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Although this is quite superficial, I would say that there's some truth to this for me. I have often struggled with people who had different interests or viewpoints than me and have more than once been surprised to learn that a cohort disagreed with me on something. For instance, I've never cared for sports, and I used to disparage professional athletes and those who watched them until I realized that that was a real conversation killer not just in social circles but in business networking as well. Probably was one of the ways that I inadvertently caused people to dislike me without my understanding how that happened.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I've also been really messed up with the Golden Rule. Sounds good on the surface, and I suppose most people try to follow it at some level, but I can tell you that bringing a pepperoni pizza (which I love) to a Green Party meeting illustrates a breakdown of that rule.</p>
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<p>In fact, following many general codes of ethics has caused me grief. It took me many years to realize that these rules are not and were never intended to be carried out to their logical conclusion, for instance, "always speak the truth" does not mean you tell your girlfriend that you find her outfit or haircut to be hideous, even if that's really what you think. Yet another case where I'm finding personal pride in being true to my (and presumably my community's) values, yet laying the foundation for someone to plot my assassination.</p> "Temple Grandin" and "Snow Cake."tag:atheistnexus.org,2010-04-02:2182797:Topic:7782472010-04-02T01:07:49.196ZJo Jeromehttp://atheistnexus.org/profile/MaryWood
Just finished watching "Temple Grandin." First and foremost Claire Danes <i>TOTALLY</i> needs an award. It's one of those performances where you completely forget who the actor is and just get wrapped up in the character. Same thing with Sigourney Weaver's performance in "Snow Cake," though that film was more artsy than accurate I felt.<div><br></br></div>
<div>"Snow Cake" being an indie film - and I do love indie films, I really do - does tend to highlight certain quirks for the sake of looking,…</div>
Just finished watching "Temple Grandin." First and foremost Claire Danes <i>TOTALLY</i> needs an award. It's one of those performances where you completely forget who the actor is and just get wrapped up in the character. Same thing with Sigourney Weaver's performance in "Snow Cake," though that film was more artsy than accurate I felt.<div><br/></div>
<div>"Snow Cake" being an indie film - and I do love indie films, I really do - does tend to highlight certain quirks for the sake of looking, well, quirky and artistic. </div>
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<div>"Temple Grandin" was far more interested in telling an accurate story. Sometimes that makes for a rather boring movie (hence, the director's temptation to take some artistic liberties). In this case, the story stands on its own without the extra bells and whistles. "Snow Cake" was a story that included an Autistic character. My advice; don't go into that one thinking it will be a movie about Autism. There is a lot more to enjoy about the film, including an early plot twist that makes the film not at all what you think it's going to be about. Love that in movies!</div>
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<div>"Temple Grandin" on the other hand centers around the Autistic character and how she sees and interacts with the world. Kudos to the director for bringing the audience into that world by over-emphasizing certain sounds, by 'seeing' a scene in pictures the way Temple does. I'm definitely more 'high functioning' than her (or at least as she's portrayed in the film). But boy could I relate. Pictures of faces in various states of emotion to learn what they mean, the frustration of being around a large group, say at a party, and knowing there are dozens more levels of communication going on that I don't get. </div>
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<div>And most inspiring of all, learning to channel Autism into our natural superpowers; 'seeing' in a way most people don't, which kind of takes the edge off of all the ways they 'see' that we'll never quite understand. </div>
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</div> We are the skilled, reliable, loyal employees. So why so hard to hold onto a job?tag:atheistnexus.org,2010-03-28:2182797:Topic:7733882010-03-28T01:42:01.619ZJo Jeromehttp://atheistnexus.org/profile/MaryWood
So I've formed a theory - ok, more like an observation - and just bounced it off a friend; woman who counsels parents of special needs kids and thusly is well versed in issues such as Autism. The observation, with some polishing from my friend goes something like this:<div><br></br></div>
<div>The typical workplace for me, socially, starts out with a boss and perhaps co-worker or three who are impressed with my job skills, my reliability, my loyalty to the business and getting the task at hand…</div>
So I've formed a theory - ok, more like an observation - and just bounced it off a friend; woman who counsels parents of special needs kids and thusly is well versed in issues such as Autism. The observation, with some polishing from my friend goes something like this:<div><br/></div>
<div>The typical workplace for me, socially, starts out with a boss and perhaps co-worker or three who are impressed with my job skills, my reliability, my loyalty to the business and getting the task at hand done. A dream employee for any workplace, right? Yet before long, one or three people develop a burning, seething hatred/jealousy/obsession with making my life miserable. It's like a contagious virus that the boss quickly catches. And poof, no more job. Why? How?</div>
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<div>That empathic, unconsciously-sizing-each-other-up communication that is the core of what we are missing, both giving off those 'vibes' and reading them from others, doesn't tend to trip up everyone. But some are astoundingly, obsessively tripped up by this. </div>
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<div>Neitzsche refers to it with his masters and slaves models. Most don't think of it in terms quite that harsh, but in any case, two people meet and on that ID, caveman level, size each other up and categorize each other socially, emotionally. Unless of course one of those persons is Autistic. The Autistic neither does the sizing up, at least not nearly on the level that the Neurotypical does, nor does s/he put out the 'correct vibes' as it were to be easily sized up by the other party. A small percentage of people are wildly thrown off by this.</div>
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<div>As my friend puts it, we disrupt that person's worldview. That person being someone who desperately needs to be on top of everyone around them, in control at least to the extent of knowing where everyone else fits in the social order. Everyone else around them fits neatly in their little emotional-social boxes, in their little categories, all lined up in a row and easy to read, predict, influence, manipulate, control. Everyone except us. And that triggers fear. Fear of the unknown, fear of someone who doesn't fit in or stay in their little box. </div>
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<div>Before long, it's like some really bad movie plot where that person is obsessed with us, and largely with making our lives hell. For these people also tend to be the Alpha personalities of the office, and in good enough with the boss that whomever they say is just too weird to be allowed to stay on the team, doesn't tend to stay on the team.</div>
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<div>Like my friend says, we can think of these coworkers as being the disabled ones. Yeah, great, but doesn't help me get my job back or keep the next one.</div>
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<div>Anyone else here have this issue? How bad? I've had a couple of bosses who would not be bullied by the bullies and evaluated me on my job skill, not the fact that I happen to weird out Andy Alpha. I even had one such Alpha coworker demand the boss fire me (for no stated reason) or she'd quit. She quit. </div>
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<div>But those good, non-puppet-mastered bosses are sadly few and far between. At least in my experience. It's been a lifetime of frustration for me: Being constantly pushed out of jobs I like, jobs I'm good at, because one or three people can't play nice with me in the sandbox. I bend over backwards to play nice with them but to no avail. Am I the only one?</div>
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