If I may ask mr. Torte, will you test every reasonable build out there on every hero to make the best build guide all over again or will you update the builds with what people seem to think it's good without testng? I mean, the latter seems more likeable, and maybe the only possible in a such short notice

On December 12 2016 20:54 Pontual wrote:yeah, something just happened.

If I may ask mr. Torte, will you test every reasonable build out there on every hero to make the best build guide all over again or will you update the builds with what people seem to think it's good without testng? I mean, the latter seems more likeable, and maybe the only possible in a such short notice

You can just call me Torte.

Haven't decided what I'll do about the builds - need to see how the new in-game system works and if I really want to take on this much of a revision to all the guides.

Yeah, the new tree system doesn't enable too many different builds, maybe few support heroes can be carrys or something but nothing radical. But there's also items changes and heroes balancing. And probably new jungle system will change farm patterns and efficiency for a lot of heroes

It seems like Valve intends for community created guides to continue to exist in-game based on what I saw in the test client yesterday. I subscribe to many of your builds and I hope that you will put in the work to update them. It seems like the pre-existing builds will be sufficient for most heroes, with the addition of the four talent choices.

Thanks for all the work that you've put into this project in the past couple of years. The impact that your guides have made on the quality of matches is truly immeasurable.

On December 13 2016 05:48 Logo wrote:They're a bit better for now maybe, but give it 6 months and people time to adjust to the patch and they'll probably be awful again unless they decide to support the guides this time.

of courseit does make it harder for torte to justify redoing 130 guides single-handedly though

Access Settings in-game is a welcomed addition - I notice the guides button is no longer in-game though, very unfortunate

One-Click Level Up is a long overdue change that League of Legends adopted years ago

New Unit Query Panel seems silly as clicking on enemies or allies never really affected your own hero's actions as the game knew to revert back to your hero when you made a move command

Mana Cost Items + Custom Hero Interface is a nice touch. I wonder if Silencer has a spot stating he steals INT permanently or they're going to keep it as some 24/7 buff

Recommended Items has me worried

Pregame

Very nice

I have a feeling Valve will stop adding heroes after both rows are filled. I hope they do to be honest.

Strategy Phase is very appreciated. Guides load before the game and purchase + strategy map is a dream come true. I personally love it

New Gameplay

Talent Trees - kind of annoying for hero builds. Now I have to decide when a person should get a point in their talent tree (sometimes impossible) and dictate which perk is overall better (even more impossible as the patch extends and gets balanced to make both perks situationally valuable choices...)

As a player, I like the idea as it relieved IceFrog from having to buff then alternative nerf heroes on and off just to compensate for metas and how the games shift in favour of one strategy over another. Also allows more flexibility on heroes to be played differently and have the perks both orient players in what they should be steering themselves towards or where the hero lacks most.

Ultimate levels 6/12/18 + Reworked XP + Respawn Timetable + Gold Bounty + Death Cost Reworked + Hero Kill XP + AOE Gold are all changes that were long overdue, but didn't have the foundation to follow-through on it. It was tried once before and took a long time for it to work out, Bounty cheers, good times.

Backpack is great - supports have less to sacrifice. I can activate TP and still keep all 6 of my items. A bit worried that it might obligate users to learn how to quick-switch before a battle. A bit tedious...

Roshan tired of making Deso a justified purchase

Shrine is great to hinder pushes to both towers or to give some advantage to the team's jungle even when it isn't warded. Does Shrine's AOE affect everyone once activated or it generates a single-AOE effect to everyone within from the moment its activated and follows the 'holder'

Neutral respawn timings is something to get used to. How will it affect pulling in the lanes is my biggest interest. Must stack at the 0:30-1 Mark to survive during the 1-3 mark and keep up the pulls.

New Ancient looks like someone had sex with Dazzle and a goat

Prowler Shaman seems OP for Doom ultra-mega-stunner/rooter

Valve pushing the early game to be shorter, mid-game to be more diverse and late-game to happen earlier and last much longer

Illusions: Good-bye Phantom Lancer - flawed carry that won't survive

Root Mechanics are nice, but don't hinder or interrupt any real escape-mechanics like Blink. interesting to see how it will change heroes like Treant at least

I don't get Dispel. Gotta test it

Turn rate is appreciated - short turns take longer, full 180s are improved

Juxtapose getting Pseudo-RD is lol

Searing Chains revealing invis. units feels right, almost like it should have always been that

Hero Changes

Create Abaddon Support - Make Default Offlane

Remove AA Core

AM Scepter is a cute idea - slightly cheaper but you lose damage from Linken's for a 1-second shorter CD, can you get both and is it worth it? haha

Arc Warden losing more of its identity

Maybe Batrider jungle build

Maybe keep/del Middle version [be sure to convert Mid. version to Jungle and del. Jungle if you decide to delete

50% of BH's talents suck dick

Broodmother talents are an easy choice

CK's Aghanim's is interesting - CD is still high but still.

Cute Aghs, definitely worth once in a blue moon of a good gmae

Too bad on WoR not dealing damage - was definitely very strong

Is -6s Poison Touch cooldown even worth it? Means 1 second slows non-stop but mana is an issue and you are really reliant on keeping your team afloat

lol

op talent tree

meh

Enchatress Offlane build?

nice touch

convert one build to offlane/missile (probably mid -> offlane)

hopefully valve will fix the cloud server version to match

disappointing

can still jungle

disappointing talent tree

convert Core to Offlane ver.

please make me a ganker, I am tired of attacking towers

Aghs delayed? Adjusted Earthbind description

Level 25 talent perk seems strange. Do you do triple damage if you cast this at melee range on an enemy?

Offlane/Aether Lens version?

consider Offlane version

New Aghs sucks in comparison, Death Pulse mix with Sadist feels strange. Ghost Shroud is very cool, BKB may be obligatory if it doesn't purge your ethereal (probably does), Necrophos an even harder carry + Meka holder. Blink and Blade Mail are more core options also (Blade Mail currently situational). Pipe also a decent option too

Heaven's Halberd still too expensive even with Talisman of Evasion cost

Helm of the Dominator: Will have to change Sven & Troll Warlord - will have to rethink of its applicability. The biggest mystery of this patch for me

Iron Talon: Just means to sell earlier I believe for builds. Going to need to keep an eye on this - definitely reduces its value

Mask of Madness: Sniper + Sven validity right off the bat. Drow ranger? Legion? Luna (cooldown of her Q might not make it as good), Phantom Assassin (might not be as good given low cooldown of Q), Ursa or back to Vlads? Wraith King

Necro 3: ?? Will have to keep track

Octarine Core reviewed on heroes who need mana regen (e.g.: Skywrath)

Rod of Atos back for AA, Skywrath, maybe Ogre?

double-check Satanic on all builds, revert to Heart if necessary (e.g.: Sven)

wind lace starting items for Ogre + Treant needs to be relooked at

Misc.

Worried about what will happen about the Hero Builds Cloud Server. All guides are now invalid and I fear they might wipe everything or still not improve the system of filtering (outdated builds vs. new better builds + decay system). We will see... there is a chance I stop here depending on the outcome.

2017: Current Patreon funds will be used to pay out selected long-time contributors (will send follow-up regarding missing paypal accounts). Waiting on accountant to tell me if it is better to cash-out in US or International. Also if better to cash-out in 2016 tax year or 2017 tax year (January)

His only real application right now is to abuse his new fake suicide in lane (300 damage level 1 xd). At the very least you have to take it at level 1. Especially because his new mines take more than 3 seconds to hit a hero and as such will literally never function in lane, I believe the correct skilling order is along the lines of e/w/e/q/q/r/q/q/w/w/w etc. Your goal is to abuse suicide in lane to establish dominance, then transition to mining off-map with ult and using Q to farm jungle (750 damage in aoe is pretty good for farming). Get to aghs and then abuse the fact that you don't need ult to farm, so you can farm with Q and still put up ult traps pretty fast.

I don't think techies can solo anymore because he needs a buddy to make sure his suicide is a real threat early (he has no real way to soften up enemies with mines being so useless now). So he's like a dual offlane or safelane hero. he doesn't really need to take farm since he jungles so fast after a few level's in Q but he needs XP desperately.

Just some thoughts. Atos would be the nuts on techies if he didn't need more mana regen than virtually any other hero.

For drow, I don't see why you'd get desolater. Frost Arrows is still a Unique Attack Modifier and flat damage doesn't scale well on drow

Personally i'm convinced that CK should be a support now (or have a support guide) with the new aghs combined with how his new abilities work but that's up to you. Build is something like windlace oov manaboots -> disassemble for aether -> aghs. Maybe drums in there.

With respect to "potential new guides" i'm really not a fan of riki core, batrider jungle, farming tree or support zeus.

Mid Visage feels dope right now. Either you do Lil's build (Medallion -> Midas -> Aghs -> SC) or you immediately upgrade Medallion and get Deso in sync with his +50 damage at 15. He effortlessly snowballs out of control unless you are awful with using familiars.

Atos on mid Leshrac also feels great. Easy setup into stun for solo ganks and partially substitutes for Bloodstone.

On December 15 2016 02:23 Sn0_Man wrote:Personally i'm convinced that CK should be a support now (or have a support guide) with the new aghs combined with how his new abilities work but that's up to you. Build is something like windlace oov manaboots -> disassemble for aether -> aghs. Maybe drums in there.

With the change to Reality Rift, Medallion is very appealing. As a support, Medallion + Drums offers more than Aether.