Elsa@Tracer teleportation takes time to activate but so does Elsa's ice blasts and Sub Zero would notice the fight began a few milliseconds before Elsa and could use that amount of time to activate his teleportation.

Elsa What do you mean she has the skill she has never been in a fight and normally sends ice monsters to do her work which A sub zero could easily defeat and B it outside help so it shouldn't be allowed

Elsa If she was going all out then that might be then end but A she holds back and if you say she isn't going to hold back then it wouldn't be Elsa vs sub zero it would be someone with Elsa's powers fighting sub zero and B sub zero can use ice shield to block attacks and an ice clone to freeze her

Elsa How many times do I have to say it? It's a versus match, they aren't going to hold back as much as they normally do. And no, he won't have enough time to make an ice clone or shield before getting hit.

Sub zero has way more skill, he is physically superior, he has more versatility, he could use ice knives to stab and slice at her, he can teleport (I've said that numerous times but you keep saying he'll get speed blitzed) he has almost ever other advantage other than speed and raw power

Elsa Okay you got me their but hey at least I can say this "He gets speed blitzed like 99 precent of the Star Wars universe if flash, Superman, green lantern, Thor, or any other high teir character showed up

Sub-Zero@soratoumiga and @LordTracer Okay, it's quite obvious that none of you guys have played any of the Mortal Kombat games or even took the time to dive into the verse. If you did, you'd quit low-balling Subs and know that he's capable of far more than Elsa is.

First of all, has Elsa ever displayed any feats in martial arts? I didn't think so, so it's plain to see that Sub-Zero has a clear advantage over her.

Second and most importantly, he's got the edge in strength and durability, Sub-Zero has tanked in far worse than Elsa could ever imagine. He's survived Scorps' hellfire, double impalement, and even reconstruction by Quan-Chi. Subs froze a large building and shattered it in one punch, can shatter diamond blocks and titanium figures with a single chop, and even Lin Kuei cyborg in half.

If you honestly believe that Elsa has even a snowball's chance in hell against Sub-Zero, then I honestly feel sorry for you.

Elsa I literally explained why Elsa was superior in AP and speed with feats and calculations. Nothing you gave for Sub is: A. Island level or B. Mach 21. Find something that actually beats that, then you can talk s**t.

Sub-Zero@LordTracer No, you only displayed her ATTACK SPEED and DAMAGE LEVEL. Just because she's superior in those two categories doesn't mean she can beat Sub-Zero. And just because Elsa froze over the island of Arendelle doesn't mean she has island level striking strength. When you take her speed into consideration, she only has hypersonic ice speed and only subsonic reactions. That's a helluva lot slower than even Sub-Zero, who easily has hypersonic movement and massively hypersonic reactions and combat speed.

Sub-Zero@LordTracer And by the way, the speed feat I gave to you was actually a movement and/or a reaction speed feat. I haven't seen Elsa move at a speed like that, have you? I mean, sure her sneezes are pretty fast, but really, it's nothing new Sub-Zero can't handle.

Elsa Damage level and attack potency are the same thing so... don't know what you're on about there. And I previously made clear that Elsa's attack speed is hypersonic, which you'll see if you scroll up to the previous comments (by the way, why'd you feel the need to bring back a battle that is nearly 60 days old?) Oh, and I can give the calculations for her having island level attack potency if you want them. And please show where Sub-Zero has ever shown massively hypersonic combat speed, because all I'm seeing is hypersonic, and a lower end of hypersonic than Elsa's attack speed.

Elsa@tracer you do realize that Elsa doesn't have that great reaction speeds? So Sub-Zero could just teleport behind her and stab her. That and also you forget who Elsa is as a character, she would likely be holding back and vs match or not that doesn't change the fact that's out of character for her. In the movie Frozen, there is a scene where a few nameless guards were able to dodge Elsa's ice blasts, why couldn't Sub-Zero do the same?

Elsa Would you like to actually explain how those are massively hypersonic? You can't just give the feat a speed value like that without proof. Oh, and you being mad is your own fault, you're the one who restarted this debate.

@Dark_Wing I like Sub-Zero more than Elsa, actually. Sub-Z is one of my favorite characters in MK. And you really can't be talking about not being convinced.

Sub-Zero@LordTracer You've lost all your thunder in this debate it's not even funny. I'm mad at the fact that you don't seem to realize the advantages that Sub-Zero clearly has over Elsa. And I'm also irritated that you haven't provided enough, or any feats, regardless of speed and AP that shows how Elsa takes the win.

Elsa I'll see if I can debunk these before the angry tracer shows up. First off, Sub-Zero knew where he would most likely teleport, second, hell fire has never shown above building level feats in the Mk verse, third, reacting to someone while injured isn't even a sound speed feat.

Elsa I already gave a feat that puts Elsa at a higher-end of hypersonic and at island level, which gives her superior AP and speed to Sub-Z. And I gave calculations for both, proving those values. Something you've yet to do for Sub-Z. Teleportation is not a quantifiable value. You'd need to give an actual speed value to it. Also he didn't react to the teleportation. He reacted to Scorpion AFTER the teleportation was finished and Scorpion was just standing behind him. And again, you being mad is your own fault. The debate had been over for nearly 60 days. Who's idea was it to bring it back? Ah, yes, your idea.

Sub-Zero@LordTracer Yes, it was my idea. It was my idea to prove you wrong. All you've given me was AP and attack speed feats, and I've been showing you how Sub-Zero is fast enough to keep up with Elsa's attack speed. AP doesn't precisely factor with Striking and Lifting strength all the time. Elsa froze an island, so what? Does that mean she can destroy an island with a single punch or kick? No, it doesn't. She wasn't even in control of her powers at that time, you know.

Sub-Zero@LordTracer It doesn't matter if Elsa froze over an entire island or has hypersonic attack speed. It doesn't factor into her overall physical strength or speed. Sure, maybe Sub-Zero doesn't have the same AP as Elsa does, but it isn't a problem for him due to his superior strength and durability. If she can't even throw a bone-crushing punch or kick at him, how do you expect her to win?

Sub-Zero Just face it, Tracer. Your thesis is flawed. Elsa doesn't have the strength nor the durability to compete with Sub-Zero. Her only advantages are her AP and attack speed that you listed. Even with that, it doesn't mean she can travel at hypersonic speeds or shatter islands with a single blow.

Elsa@holy_joe Just because Sub-Zero can break her arms up close, if she keeps at a distance she could blast Sub-Zero to death ( assuming this is bloodlusted). You haven't shown us that he is durable not to take that. And those feats for Sub-Zero aren't even hypersonic.

Sub-Zero Okay, look. Maybe I wasn't clear on the speed feats, but I wanted you guys to take cogitation over Sub-Zero's capabilities. My apologies for possibly offending you guys; I respect your opinions.

Elsa Dude, one reply, please. Put all your info in one reply, if it exceeds the word limit I understand, but there's no way that does.

Except you haven't given any feats on a higher end of hypersonic that Elsa. You've claimed the feats are massively hypersonic, but you've given no proof for that. Also I literally never said Elsa's striking strength was island level, so I don't see your point, especially when it's more likely for her to use ice attacks as opposed to physical strikes.

Not lowballing when you've given no proof of massively hypersonic speed. And the other advantages don't matter when Sub's reactions are slower than Elsa's attack speed.

She wins by AP-stomping Sub-Z with an island level ice attack, and Sub-Z doesn't have Island level durability, so he's not tanking it. It's very simple.

Your thesis is the one that's flawed, because you're acting like Elsa isn't going to be using her long-range ice attacks and is going to use physical strikes instead. You're also bringing up movement speed when that's not even that big of a factor, as combat/reaction speed is the biggest factor in a fight.

Sub-Zero@LordTracer Well, to be fair, you didn't give me any feats supporting her REACTION speed nor her speed IN GENERAL. Besides, it's not like Elsa can just throw an island-level attack to one-shot Sub-Zero and expect him to not move. I mean, the guy's gotta fight, and he should be pretty fast to dodge it, right? Subs wouldn't simply let Scorps whoop him without using the Blood Magik. I don't see how Sub-Zero's reactions are slower than Elsa's. Even if the missile-dodging feats don't place him at hypersonic speeds, it doesn't purport he's completely slow. Let's say it was Sub-Zero throwing the island-level attack at Elsa. Were there any instances showing she could dodge such?

As far as the ice goes, I doubt that Elsa's powers would even faze Sub-Zero. Hell, he survived being frozen by Frost: static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11124/111246824/5287152-resists%20frosts%20powers.jpg
Not saying that Elsa's ice powers are useless, but I just don't think her ice has the ability to harm or even freeze him. Plus, we can't forget the equipment and arsenal of attacks or whatever. I know that Elsa can make snow creatures, but who's to say Sub-Zero can't do the same? He can make ice clones of himself which freeze anyone that touches them. Elsa might be able to make ice walls or even castles, but I've never seen her actually create any weapons out of ice. Subs, on the other hand, has fraggin' ice hammers and axes that might break through her defenses.

Elsa I'm not really seeing how any of that gets past Elsa having the vastly higher AP or Sub not having the reaction speed necessary to dodge her attacks. Sub is extremely skilled and relatively strong if compared to metahuman level opponents. He just doesn't have the AP or durability to face an island buster, and he doesn't have the speed to dodge her attacks.

Elsa You keep ignoring the fact that this is a versus match, and in versus match, the characters:
A. Know they're in a fight.
B. Know they're supposed to win by KO or death.
C. Are actively trying to win.

Elsa There's a scene in the first movie where a bunch of nameless guards were able to dodge her blasts, why couldn't Sub-Zero do the same? And you forget south character for her, is this bloodlusted Elsa or not?

Elsa Are you implying Elsa was going all-out against them? Because if she wasn't, your point is invalid. And whether it's bloodlusted Elsa or not is irrelevant. She knows she has to KO or kill, and she's trying to win. She's gonna use enough power so she can win.

Sub-Zero@LordTracer You are seriously downplaying Sub-Zero here. You talk a lot of stuff for speed, and you still haven't shown me any feats of Elsa's reaction or general movement speed. So what if he doesn't have the durability to take it in? Doesn't mean he's gonna die from it. Where are your feats then, Tracer? Where's your display of Elsa having the durability, strength, or even the skill to take down Sub-Zero?

Sub-Zero@LordTracer Oh, okay! So that's how it is then. You know what? You're absolutely right! Obviously, Elsa can beat an ice-manipulating grandmaster of martial arts who survived being burnt by fire up to 3000 F and an evil sorcerer who blasted him apart and reconstructed him WHILE HE WAS CONSCIOUS. Obviously, Elsa can beat an ice-manipulating grandmaster of martial arts that defeated fallen elder gods and near-death experiences from a guy who can COMPLETELY BREAK HUMAN SKULLS with an island-level attack, and "she's gonna use enough power so she can win". That's nice, I'll just agree with your logic there.

Elsa Well, he's not. Assuming Sub-Z is the highest end of city level (100 megatons) and Elsa is the lowest end of island level (4.3 gigatons), Elsa is still 43 times stronger than Sub-Z. So no, he's not surviving.

Elsa Okay she is that powerful I will give you that but...*deap breath* ELSA HOLDS BACK!!! so she won't be going all out and going to put an end to this quickly and also who needs durability when you can teleport

Elsa It's a fight, she's not gonna hold back anywhere near as much as she normally does. And really, who needs durability when you can teleport? That's honestly one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. Teleporters need durability, otherwise they'd end up teleporting into a bullet or the blade of a sword or something and dying.

Elsa He could definitely do that. Mind you before sub zero teleports he would be in front of her at presumably 30 meters away. As soon as he teleports he would be right behind her and could use an ice knife to cut off her hands or just knock her out. Elsa isn't even peak human and sub zero is low superhuman.