@rdyoung I generally steer clear of you since i find your posts abrasive but I have been watching and I believe you do good work with the color coin assets and other stuff i have seen you get into. I think its just a case of different personalities so while I respect you I tend to avoid you.

I will say it again, the way Genesis is doing things gives them the appearance of doing shady stuff.

they say you are buying a contract to Mine bitcoin, they disclose a Maintenance fee(although there is not enough info provided on this with your payouts to make any calculation on your own). If and I mean IF they are running some sort of payout formula then they should disclose that along with the Maintenance fee and how the formula is calculated. otherwise I am left to wonder what % of my 5TH daily payout is being withheld to pay me back on some other day. What happens when my contract runs out in a year do I get a large payment with any excess % that was withheld paid out?? do i get a bill for a negative balance on whatever this magical reserve is??? Without further information we are all left with nothing else to do but speculate.

I remember having these same discussions about hashlet payouts and magical monkey zen pools. I am not saying Genesis is a Ponzi scam. All I am saying is that the way they are doing this gives that appearance.

furthermore being a reseller of hardware does not give them legitimacy in my eyes. GAW was a reseller of Zeus, they paid well on hashlets, they claimed secret pools of magic payouts, showed orders for eleventythousand PH of Bitmains, pictures of miners, videos of spray painted datacenters and clearly mined for a short period at some point based on the power bills they did not pay.

At this point in Crypto mining this level of non-information is unacceptable. Until Genesis is willing to disclose what they are doing I personally am left with no choice but to consider my investment with them in the same category as the other Hyips and Ponzis I play with.

I agree the SHA payout having declined by a good 40% just after the 1 year contracts came out wasn’t very impressive but then again GHX was affected by the last 2-3 difficulty increases as well and Genesis gave good reasons on their Facebook page and I can follow their thought process cause I have similar numbers.

But yes, my ROI calculation for the 1 year contract has been torn to bits

I’ve never mined X11. What’s the estimated profitability atm for that algo? I’m thinking about buying a few MH with the GH referral link for another 2.5% off but only if the numbers add up.

It depends on how much they pay, doesn’t it?

On MiningRigRentals you get ~$3, often more, per 1 MH/s per month, before power costs. Do Genesis contracts include maintenance/power for the year? I would be very careful with GPU cloud mining (and X11 can only be done on GPUs - no ASICs). It is much harder to run a big GPU farm than an ASIC farm so for someone to do that and sell the hashrate below market value is really suspicious.

Also keep in mind that a GPU alone costs probably $20-30 per MH/s plus it needs a shitload of infrastructure (motherboards, PSUs, cases, cooling etc).

On MiningRigRentals you get ~$3, often more, per 1 MH/s per month, before power costs.

Yeah, I checked MRR and NiceHash but that’s obviously not what you’ll get from Genesis.

Do Genesis contracts include maintenance/power for the year? I would be very careful with GPU cloud mining (and X11 can only be done on GPUs - no ASICs). It is much harder to run a big GPU farm than an ASIC farm so for someone to do that and sell the hashrate below market value is really suspicious.

Yes, it’s a one year contract all inclusive. However, after the calculations for the 1 year SHA contract basically just went out the window I’m undecided.

Anyway, be careful.

I’ll wait for some payout reports. $22.80 for 1 MH just as a “tester” to see a few payouts is to much.

I agree the SHA payout having declined by a good 40% just after the 1 year contracts came out wasn’t very impressive but then again GHX was affected by the last 2-3 difficulty increases as well and Genesis gave good reasons on their Facebook page and I can follow their thought process cause I have similar numbers.

My evaluation was pointing 5TH to both slush and f2 for a day.
That was a shitty day for slush and the payout was still over 200% of what genesis was.
F2 was over 400% of what genesis was.

I could have extended the experiment, but didn’t feel like wasting any more BTC on it…
Based on the historical info from genesis to date, the payouts were large to begin with and then steadily declined over time.

As @InsaneMiner previously pointed out, isn’t mining revenue that is consistent (regardless of rising or falling) strange?
How low it is compared to what 5TH of power should be pulling in is the other flag for me.

I haven’t been paying attention to Genesis as much as everyone else has. However, the difficulty increases are huge, and we were struggling as well for payouts, not only due to hardware being down, but because BTC Pricing is no longer 250+, Difficulty increased 5%+ 3x now and pool luck has not been the best since.

Where is genesis mining? Most pools are finding less and less blocks as the bigger pools and the B2B Private Pools begin to take the majority of the hashrate.

i find it intresting with the X11 that they are charging the SAME as 0.05TH. (0.097 and 0.095) . So to me that says to THEM 50GH is worth 1MH. huh… funny cause they had screwed alot of us with conversion before but they said it was 1MH=1GH, so now they put it 50-1, so to me they have 50 sales for each customer they screwed on MH conversion last time. And a contract with 70% maintence costs the same as a contract with 0% maintence? these guys dont even make sense to me anymore… tho they never did…

1 MH/s of X11 is quite different from 1 MH/s of Scrypt - the latter is typically 3-5 times cheaper and has significantly better power efficiency although prepaid contracts make such comparisons complicated. The ratio could be perhaps 10-15 GH/s of SHA256 to 1 MH/s Scrypt.

However if Genesis had some stupid hardware (like Zeus space heaters) then it might as well been worthless at the time of conversion. Not defending them, just pointing out that they could have been dumb enough to make a bad investment in hardware.

ahh see x11 is unknown in mining to me so ok no , that makes a bit more sense then.
i have “stalked” your Crypto-ways, i don’t think you WOULD defend GM (unless they actually deserved it), thx for the info.
i am still on the fence about GM (apparently)

My evaluation was pointing 5TH to both slush and f2 for a day.That was a shitty day for slush and the payout was still over 200% of what genesis was.F2 was over 400% of what genesis was.

200% should be right since rented hardware doesn’t include maintenance fees. So if you rent power on NiceHash for example and you hit a good pool then the return should be 100-130% pool luck. On Genesis you would face +50% maintenance fee.

However, @nemesio pretty much nailed it. The last 3 difficulty pumps and the (somewhat) stable BTC price don’t make life easy.

nemesio:

Where is genesis mining? Most pools are finding less and less blocks as the bigger pools and the B2B Private Pools begin to take the majority of the hashrate.

We do not publish a list of pools we are using. Our main criteria for a good pool are: reliability, fee structure and reject rate. Going forward we will solo-mine a few coins (and pass the fee savings to our users!).

My issue is not the low payout(although that sucks) but the consistent payout with no pool luck variations. there are no super low or zero payout days and no high payout good luck payout days.

At a minimum this means they are paying out using some formula method instead of mining reward payouts.

on the whole I don’t have a problem with formula payouts as long as they disclose that is what they are doing and publish how this formula is calculated. Otherwise they appear shady.

I’ve tumbled the numbers at least 4 times on GM. I could never see any profit in them or even Break Even.

For me, it’s not their maintenance cost that kills it. It’s their upfront cost/hashing power. By the time you get close to paying off the upfront costs to buy their hashing power, the difficulty has changed so much that the even at their low maintenance cost, you can’t make it to the BE goal line.

My simple analysis tells me they have to much invested in overhead (DCs, rigs etc) and have to re-coup it from us in the initial cost… or go broke.

Long story short, I could never make my profit simulations work with GM’s numbers.

So, they’re going to have to do something to lower their upfront costs while not increasing the maintenance fee very much… or nobody is going to buy from them anymore.

or

On the other hand, they could have re-couped enough of their overhead costs by now that they can just load up on SP 50s and mine for themselves without trying to sell us any hashing power…a la KNC business model.