OscailtProgressives Are Not Being Honest About Gun ControlFew things are more dangerous to a nation’s citizenry than when its leaders decide to turn on their own or selected groupings of their own people (and Jewish people should especially understand this). Tyrannical governments should be feared far more than various types of weapons—especially when tyrants have no or few restrictions on their own selection of weapons. The progressive idea of the 2nd Amendment was the notion that common people can have the right to defend themselves against tyrannical governments (including and especially when their own choose to turn on them—which has happened all throughout history). THE AMERICAN GOVERNMENT AND ITS CURRENT DYSFUNCTIONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH ISRAEL DOES NOT WARRANT TRUST ENOUGH FOR THE AMERICAN CITIZENRY TO HANDOVER GUNS TO THIS CORRUPTED STATUS QUO.
2013-01-22T23:47:23+00:00Indymedia Irelandimc-ireland@lists.indymedia.iehttp://www.indymedia.ie/atomfullposts?story_id=103188http://www.indymedia.ie/graphics/feedlogo.gifDon't be stupid...http://www.indymedia.ie/article/103188#comment2942132013-01-22T23:47:23+00:00LeftyIf the people of america rose up and tried to use their guns against the state i...If the people of america rose up and tried to use their guns against the state it would be suicide. The state has all the best weapons and a shitload of well trained cannonfodder to use them efficiently on the people. Attacking them would just give them an excuse to take the gloves off. <br />
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And your ak47 would be pretty useless against a black hawk with a rail gun!<br />
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The evolution of weapons technology has made the ideals of the founding fathers such as "the right to bear arms" seem a little outdated and pointless. All buying guns does is create more profits for the corporate military industrial complex, and give it even more money to control the government and hence your laws.<br />
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If they were around today, the founding fathers might be more interested in dismantling corporate and financial institutions, limiting the expansion of the military industrial complex, and protecting stuff like internet freedoms and independent media, and assuring a high standard of education and critical thinking for all, which is possibly the best way of protecting society against misinformation, propaganda and lies, the manufacture of consent or right wing fascist soft coups, which is essentially what is going on.<br />
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If you want change then you need very large scale peaceful civil disobedience, not lots of weapons everywhere being used by violent nutjobs on each other and on innocent people. <br />
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Instead of selling a bunch of small arms to everyone, you need to get them all to turn off their TV sets and read a few books, and get out on the streets en masse and bring the whole corrupt system to a stop. That's what they fear. The state and their corporate friends can only operate if it they can engineer the passive consent of a majority of the people. Once they lose that it's game over. <br />
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The NRA is just there to help lubricate profitable gun sales to frightened people.Speaking of "the founding fathers" ...http://www.indymedia.ie/article/103188#comment2942152013-01-23T05:03:51+00:00W. FinnertyReply to Lefty at Tue Jan 22, 2013 23:47 ...
I agree with your assessment, and ...Reply to Lefty at Tue Jan 22, 2013 23:47 ...<br />
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I agree with your assessment, and I would like to try and add a little to it using the following excerpt:<br />
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"I wish it were possible to obtain a single amendment to our Constitution. I would be willing to depend on that alone for the reduction of the administration of our government to the genuine principles of its Constitution; I mean an additional article, taking from the federal government the power of borrowing." <br />
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The above excerpt is from a letter by the then "founding father" Vice-President of the Republic of the United States Thomas Jefferson to John Taylor, dated November 26, 1798. (The full text of the letter can be viewed at: <a href="http://www.yamaguchy.com/library/jefferson/taylor.html" title="http://www.yamaguchy.com/library/jefferson/taylor.html">http://www.yamaguchy.com/library/jefferson/taylor.html</a> )<br />
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My lengthy research very strongly suggests that it was the failure of United States governments, then and since then -- leaving aside a relatively very brief period when Republican US President Abraham Lincoln very successfully did something of the "Thomas Jefferson" sort using his home-made "Greenbacks" during the American Civil War (before being assassinated) -- to produce their own debt-free and interest-free money supply, that has the whole world (more or less) in the almighty "economic" mess it's now in: and which is of course much, much more than just an "economic" mess. More like a "f**k, fight, and bite" seething cesspit of political, legal, and corporate corruption, crime, cover-ups, and impunity, I'd say?<br />
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"I mean an additional article, taking from the federal government the power of borrowing": this, in my opinion, is EXACTLY the direction, in principle, that the Republic of Ireland Central Government (Executive, Legislative, and Judicial) needs to head off in at the present time: and it needs to be quick about it!!<br />
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In other words, the Government of the Republic of Ireland needs to provide itself with its own debt-free, and interest-free money supply ASAP: for the funding of our own necessary and worthwhile projects, projects which have the support, and the direct involvement -- keeping in mind the "participation is the key to harmony" principle -- of "the people" of the Republic of Ireland.<br />
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Failure by our Government (Executive, Legislative, and Judicial) to move smartly in this direction will mean more, MUCH MORE (in my opinion), and much sooner and more suddenly than many realise perhaps, of "government of the money-power-psychopaths, by the money-power-psychopaths, for the money-power-psychopaths": for projects that the money-power-psychopaths want and support: which of course includes non-stop, never-ending global warfare of EVERY possible kind imaginable; and, with people like our Prime Minister Enda Kenny helping them out by playing the role of a two-faced puppet -- corruptly and hypocritically trying, but failing, to convincingly talk out of both sides of his mouth at the same time -- while, in reality, being "remotely controlled" by "the banksters" who are "pulling the strings" from behind the scenes in places which I believe would include the City of London and Wall Street (for example).<br />
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If our Prime Minister Enda Kenny was the only "puppet government leader" of the Money Power Psychopaths in the world at the present time, the overall situation for humanity generally would not be anywhere nearly so bad, mad, and dangerous. Unfortunately, just now, our Prime Minister Enda Kenny is a very long way off from being on his own (it seems to me). He appears to have lots of "puppet government leader" company at the present time -- very "bad" company as far as I'm concerned -- in several parts of the world: which is what is making the world such an extremely dangerous place: keeping in mind the present level of "thermonuclear weapons of mass destruction" being maintained, and daily added to, on land and sea; and, on the prowl lurking beneath the sea as well, for good measure and for the extra "safety" and "protection" we all need ("like a hole in the head"!!).<br />
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Related Link:<br />
"Banksters, money power psychopaths, quadrillions of derivatives gambling debts":<br />
<a href="http://tinyurl.com/ap3hkdj" title="http://tinyurl.com/ap3hkdj">http://tinyurl.com/ap3hkdj</a><br />
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An Operation Gladio of sorts ?http://www.indymedia.ie/article/103188#comment2942532013-01-26T23:30:11+00:00TThere is an interesting podcast from the Guns and Butter show from Jan 9th where...There is an interesting podcast from the Guns and Butter show from Jan 9th where they discuss media discrepancies around the cover of this mass shooting. Certainly a lot of things don't add up and they cover the strange coroner's press conference.<br />
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It is certainly well listening to and disturbing to think that state forces could be involved in something like this, but then again if a country can happy fake evidence for a war -aka Iraq and then bomb the country to pieces and combined with the occupation kill far in excess of 100,000 and you can assume there are 1000s of kids in those numbers then what is killing 20 or 30 to pursue some goal?slight correctionhttp://www.indymedia.ie/article/103188#comment2942702013-01-27T22:22:19+00:00789@finnerty
>>>My lengthy research
Your "lengthy" reasearch could not have extend...@finnerty<br />
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>>>My lengthy research<br />
Your "lengthy" reasearch could not have extended beyond a few books by conspiracist regurgitators, otherwise you would know that Lincoln was a Whig, a willing partner of the money power, no friend of the people; and that the greenbacks were NOT debt-free; H.A. Lincoln was the one (and the crew around him) who established the U.S. national debt which has not been paid off since. The trajectory that Obama is on, was started by Lincoln---<br />
{<br />
On the 4th of July, 1861, the 37th Congress met in first or extraordinary session. The Speaker elect [Galusha A. Grow] delivered a ferocious and bloodthirsty address, declaring that territorial unity must be maintained "No flag alien to the sources of the Mississippi river will ever float over its mouths till its waters are crimsoned with human gore; and not one foot of American soil can ever be wrenched from the jurisdiction of the Constitution of the United States until it is baptized in fire and blood." This atrocious sentiment was received, according to the official report, with "vociferous applause upon the floor and in the galleries, which lasted for many minutes."<br />
}<br />
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If you ever have the courage to do some research, please read the story of greenbacks, by its authors (Hooper, Sherman, & co.); only 700 pages:<br />
<a href="http://www.yamaguchy.com/library/spaulding/green_index.html" title="http://www.yamaguchy.com/library/spaulding/green_index.html">http://www.yamaguchy.com/library/spaulding/green_index.html</a><br />
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And if you consider a lengthy research, start here:<br />
<a href="http://www.yamaguchy.com/library/uregina/speeches.html" title="http://www.yamaguchy.com/library/uregina/speeches.html">http://www.yamaguchy.com/library/uregina/speeches.html</a><br />
the story of central banking in the U.S.; 3,000 pagesReply to pseudonym "789"http://www.indymedia.ie/article/103188#comment2942722013-01-28T06:52:52+00:00W. FinnertyReply to "789" at Sun Jan 27, 2013 22:22
Thank you for your comments.
If you p...Reply to "789" at Sun Jan 27, 2013 22:22<br />
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Thank you for your comments.<br />
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If you provided me with your real identity I might treat them more seriously.<br />
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Why do you feel the need to hide behind a pseudonym I wonder?<br />
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Related Link:<br />
"Abraham Lincoln, government of the people, by the people, for the people"<br />
<a href="http://tinyurl.com/asf3c34" title="http://tinyurl.com/asf3c34">http://tinyurl.com/asf3c34</a><br />
?http://www.indymedia.ie/article/103188#comment2942852013-01-28T19:44:38+00:00789Typical regurgitator response -- how dare anyone call your bluff and ask you to ...Typical regurgitator response -- how dare anyone call your bluff and ask you to show something to back your "lengthy research"<br />
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<a href="http://name789.wordpress.com/" title="http://name789.wordpress.com/">http://name789.wordpress.com/</a>Reply #2 to pseudonym "789"http://www.indymedia.ie/article/103188#comment2942922013-01-29T01:53:35+00:00W. FinnertyThank you for your additional comments (whoever you are?).
Related Link:
http:/...Thank you for your additional comments (whoever you are?).<br />
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Related Link:<br />
<a href="http://www.humanrightsireland.com/IrishLegalProfessions/11August2011/Email.htm#Bottom_of_List" title="http://www.humanrightsireland.com/IrishLegalProfessions/11August2011/Email.htm#Bottom_of_List">http://www.humanrightsireland.com/IrishLegalProfessions..._List</a>Thttp://www.indymedia.ie/article/103188#comment2943022013-01-30T01:47:57+00:00Tom PaineInconsistencies in early reports of the Sandy Hook shootings are discussed here:...Inconsistencies in early reports of the Sandy Hook shootings are discussed here: <br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.forteantimes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=51232&amp;postdays=0&amp;postorder=asc&amp;start=0" title="http://www.forteantimes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=51232&amp;postdays=0&amp;postorder=asc&amp;start=0">http://www.forteantimes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=51232...art=0</a><br />
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and here: <a href="http://www.politics.ie/forum/us-politics/204583-truthers-newest-group-pro-gop-supporters-worse-than-birthers.html" title="http://www.politics.ie/forum/us-politics/204583-truthers-newest-group-pro-gop-supporters-worse-than-birthers.html">http://www.politics.ie/forum/us-politics/204583-truther....html</a>&chttp://www.indymedia.ie/article/103188#comment2943152013-01-30T20:00:29+00:00789@ user_name finnerty
How is "finnerty" a better login name than "789" -- never ...@ user_name finnerty<br />
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How is "finnerty" a better login name than "789" -- never mind the person, worry about your complete lack of knowledge regarding H.A. Lincoln (he got you a war, a banking system, and a national debt; what more could you ask for from a Whig)<br />
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www.yamaguchy.com<br />
the source of your finagled wisdomGun control NOW!http://www.indymedia.ie/article/103188#comment2943162013-01-30T21:05:08+00:00JaneGun control needs to be discussed honestly and openly without mud slinging or co...Gun control needs to be discussed honestly and openly without mud slinging or conspiracy nut theoris,if its one thing i loathe more than a gun-nut,its a conspiracy theorist nut.Re: Gun Control NOWhttp://www.indymedia.ie/article/103188#comment2943182013-01-31T00:21:52+00:00TJane, it is possible to have a rational debate and include other motives that ma...Jane, it is possible to have a rational debate and include other motives that may be at work by the government. Because such theories are proposed does not mean that one is in favour of guns. All I will say at this point is how very rapidly the story went from coverage of the massacre in Dec to the political agenda. And just because you are for gun control, it is still imperative that people make sure there isn't some other sinister agenda at work that is preying on these fears and using them.<br />
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Clearly more guns in a society leads to more deaths by guns just through simple accidents, let alone by mass shootings.<br />
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Anyhow as we all know, there is no realistic chance of this situation changing soon in the US. What we may agree on is that there are certain factors within US society which seem to aggravate the problem and that is the lack of a social net although the one we have here and in the rest of Europe is being dismantled as we speak. Overall though the nature of US society which is one of hyper-individualism PLUS the huge level of medication (of psychotic drugs) taken by the population for mental health problems means that when you have guns in this mix where there are no outlets, no examples of solidarity or basically any form of help, then stress levels and crazy thoughts by people can easily get carried away and fester, resulting in the carnage we see regularly.<br />
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Like all problems we face today they are not just single dimensional. The establishment likes us to think that way because then there is no fear in connecting the dots to figure out how badly run society is in most places and what a terrible deal the mass of the population gets while all the wealth and resources are wasted on a few.<br />
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So it should be clear that this problem is unlikely to be solved without any advance is solving all the other societal problems of that place at the same time.conspiacy theory or facthttp://www.indymedia.ie/article/103188#comment2943522013-02-02T11:16:08+00:00seanit's sad to see these days how so many supposededly enlighted educated people ar...it's sad to see these days how so many supposededly enlighted educated people are duped into dismissing any alternative point of view which can be backed up with real facts as conspiracy theory. i have noticed this about so many on the left that it is quite alarming as they are ultimately victimising themselves and others by their obstinacy. Ideologies and nearly everything out there serve the elites and they have been given to you. Sadly the vast bulk of people on the 'left' don't understand the real agendas at work.