Wife and Kids left

Asked Jan 12, 2009, 09:18 AM
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242 Answers

Well, never thought I'd be here asking this. I've known my wife for 13 years (since I was 18), and been married for 12 with two great kids (8 & 10 plus a 14 yr old stepdaughter I've raised since she was 1); she decided to leave 3 days before Christmas. There was no "event" to leave over (domestic violence, abuse, alcoholism/drug addiction, gambling, infidelity). We both work, and I work 8-5 M-F, while she worked 3pm-12am for a retail store. Once I got off from work I'd go home and take care of the children until they were ready for bed (cook dinner, all that stuff). So, she didn't have many domestic duties (no desperate housewife here) and was by herself most of the time before work at 3pm. According to my wife, she says she left because she "needs her own life" and since she's going to be 37 feels like her life is going nowhere. I don't understand this point. I work for a state university and we planned on working for a few years to pay off my student loan debts and then she could attend college for her subject of choice (practically for free since I'm faculty). She quit her job and moved in with her mother (4 hours away) while taking the three children with her. She has no means of obtaining gainful employment (minimum wage is all she's getting with her education & experience), and is relying completely off her mother and step-father. I don't understand this... why leave a husband who cooks 5 days a week and is willing to help you make it through school? I don't think she's likely to finish college raising three kids by herself, and her mother is unreliable and moves every 3-6 months and has for the past 13 years (no joke, I have often wondered if they are running from the law or creditors). The odds on her staying put for 4 years while she goes to school (she's dropped out several times because she gets burned-out) are really low and approach the astronomically small range...

So, while she was still at home I begged and pleaded for her to stay and try to work this out for us, the children, and for our economic security. Between the two of us we do just fine but her income is more supplemental and mine is the main income (50K between the two of us in a small, rural state which is pretty good for this area). I've been leaving her alone (no text message, email, or phone "terrorism" from me), and every once in a while she calls me... while it's typically business of some sort, I've noticed that she'll stay on the phone for a while and talk about general things; almost like she misses me but not quite sure what to make of it. This makes me wonder if she's serious about divorcing or just having a midlife crisis of some sort... and she says it's officially a separation. I miss my wife so much that I'd do almost anything to have her come back and reunite our family. I'd go to counseling, take a second job so she can stay home (she says she's burned out from working all the time) I thought we were just working a lot and trying to buy our home... ignored some of the signs that she was growing cold towards me... guess I should have seen it coming but since we worked the schedule we did I rarely saw her. She also had many friends at work who where 18-22 and have no children or spouses, and I've wondered if hanging out around these younger people left her feeling old and bored... any suggestions?

Thanks for the feedback, I do appreciate it. I don't plan on abandoning my children, but I do want her to feel how difficult it is for single parents. Hopefully the reality will wake her up and we can try to keep our family intact.

I hate to bring up a comment from several pages back but this comment wreaks of selfishness. It sound as if you are, in effect, using your children to get your wife to come back to you.

QUOTING GREATBIGNOW::You always tell me everything that you think I cannot do. I am SO tired of you telling me that I cannot do anything for myself!! You used to tear me down so much that I really wanted to die. Do you get that?! I used to hate living because it was all about the nothing that I could do effectively. I also do not want the girls to see that and think that it is a real relationship. I do not want [our son] to grow up and treat his future wife that way either.
You still do not see that it was ALL about you. I can't believe that you'd just give up on the children like that. They are always yours and mine. You are just throwing them away. You hurt them so much by not being there. It is not about how you or I feel. IT IS ALL ABOUT THE CHILDREN!! You don't seem to get that. You are selfishly focused totally on your own hurt. You have hurt so many people over the years, apparently you have forgotten that. You have hurt me so much over the years. You can NEVER know the pain and humiliation I have suffered because of YOU!! I hope that you are someday repaid for all the terrible things you did to me. That is how I've grown to hate you. ::END QUOTE (sorry, something went wrong while quoting)

Okay, do you see key words in here? I do! I don't know what your wife is speaking of when she talks about all of the hurt that you've caused, but it was obviously very substantial! Fess up! We can't help if we don't understand. I can see a great deal of hurt coming from her words. Most people in a communicative marriage don't say things like they HATED living and wished they would "DIE!!" There was obviously some very SERIOUS issues in your marriage. She is done with you, and I can tell that!

Unless you take the focus off her and what you see wrong with HER, you will never ever get your family back together. I'm not so sure you should do that anyway, at least at this point! I hear MANY things in your wife's words. I hear FEAR, PAIN, ANGER, Despair, RESENTMENT, and DISCONECTION! These are all SYMPTOMS of the problem, not "THE PROBLEM."

You need to put your money where your mouth is. You can't change what you don't acknowledge! You need to do the leg work! Right now your main focus is getting your wife and family back. You need to be prepared for that not to happen. What your focus NEEDS to be is you, and how you ran this thing off into the ditch!

If you want to show integrity, and salvage any semblance of a relationship with your wife and children, do what you need to do. Let your wife gain back some of her self respect and dignity, support your children both financially and emotionally, no matter the price tag! Do the work you need to do, to show you are worthy of another chance. Then and only then will you have another chance at a loving relationship with your wife and children... whether that be a formidable divorce, or a reconciliation!

Okay, now where do you go from here? No more accusations. No more haranguing. Could you arrange your life so she could come home with the kids and start to take nursing classes? Is there a community college near where you live? She could take core courses inexpensively. They might even have a certificate program for LPN or CNA to give her some credentials and experience as she goes to school. I would think at least some RN programs offer classes as distance learning that she can do at home on her computer. What I'm trying to say is that there are all sorts of ways to slice a watermelon. Would she be able to go to school, financially and according to your ideas of things?

Greetings,

Ok, I can go along with your recommendations. Yes, the university I work at has a nursing program that I'd definitely restructure our lives financially for her to go if she were to come back (I'd get a smaller house and take a second job). When she was here, she didn't want to attend for nursing which is why I don't understand what the sudden change is for.

It doesn't have to! Being a dad doesn't have to mean carrying the weight of the world on your shoulders and being a grouch. There's a happy medium between all work and all play. I suspect that's what she was hoping for.

If you sent her a website about infidelity, with your history of criticizing her, she'd be forgiven for taking it as implicit criticism. She writes quite well for someone with minimal formal training.

Well, she reads a lot and I've never said she wasn't unintelligent. It's just that from my experience with her I believe she has trouble staying on task for long term goals.

Cool! They might be some of the same things we've said we dislike about you. When I was in grad school, the psych profs told us that if something a client is doing annoys us, we can pretty well figure that same thing is annoying the rest of that client's world. There's even a name for it............

Wasn't that transference? I think so...

Well, that's also why I'm here. I know I have defects of character like everyone else, but I'm willing to work on them.

QUOTING GREATBIGNOW::You always tell me everything that you think I cannot do. I am SO tired of you telling me that I cannot do anything for myself!!!!! You used to tear me down so much that I really wanted to die. Do you get that??!! I used to hate living because it was all about the nothing that I could do effectively. I also do not want the girls to see that and think that it is a real relationship. I do not want [our son] to grow up and treat his future wife that way either.
You still do not see that it was ALL about you. I can't believe that you'd just give up on the children like that. They are always yours and mine. You are just throwing them away. You hurt them so much by not being there. It is not about how you or I feel. IT IS ALL ABOUT THE CHILDREN!!!!!! You don't seem to get that. You are selfishly focused totally on your own hurt. You have hurt so many people over the years, apparently you have forgotten that. You have hurt me so much over the years. You can NEVER know the pain and humiliation I have suffered because of YOU!!!!! I hope that you are someday repaid for all the terrible things you did to me. That is how I've grown to hate you. ::END QUOTE (sorry, something went wrong while quoting)

Okay, do you see key words in here? I do! I don't know what your wife is speaking of when she talks about all of the hurt that you've caused, but it was obviously very substantial! Fess up! We can't help if we don't understand. I can see a great deal of hurt coming from her words. Most people in a communicative marriage don't say things like they HATED living and wished they would "DIE!!" There was obviously some very SERIOUS issues in your marriage. She is done with you, and I can tell that!

Unless you take the focus off of her and what you see wrong with HER, you will never ever get your family back together. I'm not so sure you should do that anyway, at least at this point! I hear MANY things in your wifes words. I hear FEAR, PAIN, ANGER, DISPAIR, RESENTMENT, and DISCONECTION! These are all SYMPTOMS of the problem, not "THE PROBLEM."

You need to put your money where your mouth is. You can't change what you don't acknowledge! You need to do the leg work! Right now your main focus is getting your wife and family back. You need to be prepared for that not to happen. What your focus NEEDS to be is you, and how you ran this thing off into the ditch!

If you want to show integrity, and salvage any semblance of a relationship with your wife and children, do what you need to do. Let your wife gain back some of her self respect and dignity, support your children both financially and emotionally, no matter the price tag! Do the work you need to do, to show you are worthy of another chance. Then and only then will you have another chance at a loving relationship with your wife and children...whether that be a formidable divorce, or a reconciliation!

Ok, a little bio on the past. I did drugs and drank alcohol when I first met my wife (I was playing drums in a heavy-metal band), and she did recreationally but I ended up with a problem. Earlier on in our marriage I would stay gone for days, particularly when the first child came along; I wasn't ready for the commitment of children OR marriage, but she wanted to marry and I did love her so I went along with it. After working in a factory for five years and trying to attend college part-time, I finally quit because I was completely burned out on the manual labor and at 23 I felt like I was 43 (repetitive motions). For a few years it was difficult financially, far more difficult than now because of the job market and my lack of education. The only experience I had was in factory work. So, I started school and obtained a job with a pharmacy. Here's where it gets dicey... you can imagine that someone with a drug problem should probably not work at a pharmacy. I started stealing pills and selling them for a hefty profit to other college students. After a year, I got caught and spent 7 months in a prison "boot camp" program... back up a bit... when I was 14 I got in trouble with some Xanax pills and my father put me in rehab for almost 2 years. It was called "Second Chance" in Memphis, TN and I have to say it saved my life and gave me the ability to tackle the kind of changes that needed to be made both then and now. Ruthless honesty, and learning how to deal with a horrid drug problem (even though I screwed up later, it's the only way I have been able to get where I am now instead of killing myself somehow). Ok, fast forward. I initially fled the state to escape prosecution... it was relatively easy because I worked for a cable TV company that moved to Oregon (and it paid a grand a week... more than I make now). Well, once I got up there the company went bankcrupt and I came back to face my charges (possession of the pills, and theft of the pills; would you believe having Oxycontin is a class Y felony.. just like assault or first-degree murder? That's another issue though... ). Ok, so I go through this "boot camp" program and come out 7 months later in awesome physical shape and ready to work on myself and my family. To her credit, my wife waited patiently and tells me to this day that I was far more difficult on her and the children than it was on me... I'm not sure about that one, and if you want to read about the Arkansas prison system read "Accomplices to the Crime." It has a prison system based on 17th century slavery... you work in the cotton fields... anyway, enough of that. In some ways I think that experience both ruined me and made me stronger. It's difficult for me to be happy anymore, and I feel a certain sense of dread and tension that wasn't there before... maybe that's some of the "lost youth & vitality" she speaks of. That's why I sought counseling during my graduate degree... it was so difficult to both forgive myself and come to grips with what had happened.

Ok, after release I obtained employment with an alcohol and drug abuse treatment center while attending my undergraduate full time. I'd like to think I made a difference in the lives of some of my clients. After my undergrad, I went to grad school on a full scholarship and worked for yet another counseling center for D&A until I completed my degree.

Since 2002 I've not had any drugs or alcohol, and I've been a committed family man. I felt like I'd hurt both my wife and children so much and I just wanted to make it up to them both financially and emotionally. I was so sorry for the way I had lived... drug addiction unfortunately runs in families as well... I came by it honestly (my great-grandfather was a morphine addict, my mother on heroine for years, and a slew of alcoholics too numerous to list, but please don't take this as my blaming others for my problem. I did it, but I've also been recovering and would like to think I'm an example of what someone can do even if they screw up and stay addicted for years). One other thing, in 2006 we had a home invasion. A man who would later be convicted for rape and numerous other attempted rapes came into our home near Christmas that year. He came in the door (which was unlocked because I had just come home) with a ski mask and a knife... looked at my wife's purse, which was near the door and had money sticking out of it, but he wasn't interested in her purse... he was interested in her. I was behind him and he didn't see me coming... I also went to the gym almost every day back then, and so I grabbed him and took the knife away from him. I can tell you I feared for my life, but the thought of someone trying to assault my wife and family that way, along with the instinctual drive to protect one's family (we see the same thing in primates whenever a predator is around... the females grab the children and run for cover, while the males prepare to fight whatever it is). He would have had to kill me before getting to her or our children... anyway, for months afterwards I wouldn't leave the house for anything but important functions, and I stopped going to the gym because I always went in the evening and I just have a fear now that it could happen again... I just so happened to be home that night because classes were out and I didn't want to go right then. Part of why I stay at home with my family all the time now... I still hate it when people come to the door as well. I also sought counseling for that issue at the same time I went for the other issue.

During my graduate studies, I still made time for my wife and I to have "alone" time. I took her to a popular resort town nearby for her birthday and our anniversary, and we went out to eat by ourselves once a week. Amazing how we remember specific events with our spouses... there are some private moments I'll never forget.

Once I graduated, we decided (or, I think we decided together) to take the job offer and moved four hours away. Over the past 1 1/2 years we've taken some nice vacations (went to Disney Land, Sea World, and visited with my grandmother in southern California last year; we also went to D.C. for the 4th of July, which they had never done before... as a child I lived near D.C. and the 4th was something to remember; I'd highly recommend it for your family sometime), but mainly worked. We realized quite quickly that my salary would not suffice and so my wife took employment with a local retailer. The goal was to pay down our debts and buy the house I'm still in. She loved this house, and I wanted her to be happy and finally have a place to call home that was HERS (ours, of course). Over the past year, we've been working towards our financial goals, but she also says I've become grouchy and unpleasant to be around. It's financial stress, and it just ticks me off that I couldn't support my family the way I felt they should be cared for... after all the sacrifice (from all of us), I still qualified for food stamps on my salary! So, I started applying to jobs in California because the salary is usually 2-3 times what they pay here. I should also add that my record has made it difficult to find employment, and I feel blessed to have found the job I have. I've applied for a pardon from the governor, because since that time I've made a complete change and most people wouldn't recognize me anymore... in fact, I had some clients at the rehab (who I used to know when I was a drunk) who didn't recognize me while I was in grad school... they couldn't believe it was me. Hopefully that will underscore the kinds of changes I've made, but also show the board how we went from then to now. I know I hurt my wife over the years, and I've spent the last 7 years trying to make up for it but apparently I've also become difficult to deal with and arrogant at times. It's just that I usually feel like a complete loser for what I did years ago, and it's frustrating that my family has to suffer because of it still. However, I do expect to get the pardon. Few from my background make the changes I have and end up as professionals... I'm definitely a statistical anomaly but it's also why I do think I have what it takes to change myself. I've already overcome something that kills 90% of its victims (I forget who did the study). Anyway, I've spilled my guts, but in the hopes that some good can come of this. I want my family to be together, happy, and healthy. I love my wife and she's been a supportive and wonderful partner over the years. I WANTED to help her finish school, no matter how arrogant I might have sounded. All the feedback and help has been appreciated, and of course I hope this can come to a hopeful conclusion but regardless, maybe I can at least learn for the future.

I have to leave at 3:45 a.m. to take a group of my students to D.C. for the swearing-in of our president, and I won't be back until late Thursday. Please don't think I'm ignoring anyone, but I'll be out for a few days.

When she was here, she didn't want to attend for nursing which is why I don't understand what the sudden change is for.

Maybe she's had time to think about it. Maybe it's become her idea now instead of yours. (Remember, she wants to be her own person... )

Health care is booming. All of us Baby Boomers are getting old and falling apart -- and there are LOTS of us, plus many of our parents are still alive too. If she got an RN degree, she could name her price and her job -- so many options publicly or privately, in a hospital or a doctor's office or a fitness center or in a school. And the money would be good.

This was exactly what I thought. It needs to be her plan, not something she's carrying out under orders or never doing "right" or "good enough"

Gotcha. Oh, here is an answer to the question of "What would you change?"

I would love to change the relentless way that you are stubborn and never listen. Hope that helps.

Here is also a copy of the email I sent her.

Hi,

I think it was more how I felt than you. I felt fat and unattractive, but I'm trying to do better. I'm just trying to tell you what was wrong with me. It wasn't you.

Ok, also, sorry to badger everyone and I won't do it anymore. Yes, I've felt a wide-range of emotions about this, from hurt to rage and it comes out in my emails and phone calls. I'm normally a rational and logical individual (to a fault), but these are difficult times. I do apologize for it, and hope that at some point you can forgive me for everything I've done to hurt you. Also, please understand that I'm not saying that in hopes you'd come back, which I realize probably isn't going to happen. I'll work on trying to be a bit more sane, but please understand that this is extremely difficult for me; please be gentle. I've been trying to look at what I did wrong, and yes I do see there was quite a bit that could have been done better. There WERE red flags all over the place, but I just didn't acknowledge them.

I haven't had any cheesecake in a while. Nothing but Clif Bars until the evening, when I have a small dinner. I know I used to be somewhat attractive and in shape, and that I've let myself go over the past year. On another note, Texas A&M has my application now, and I'm likely going to go there and study for my Ph.D. in child psychology; my goal is to research autism and asperger's interventions in the classroom. Maybe some good can come of it for [our son], because I truly feel like the current ones are "shots in the dark" and that the disorder is not fully understood.

On the W-4, I already have your last pay stub but I'm still waiting for my 1099 from Scottrade. I'll try to take care of our debts as best I can. I found a three-bedroom house that is for $450 and is near the university so when the kids come to visit I'll have room for them; the owner said I wouldn't have to put down a deposit either since I work at Henderson (small towns sometimes have their benefits, don't they?). [Wife's name], I honestly wish you well and hope you are happy and successful. Please believe me that I never wanted you to be miserable, and I am truly sorry for anything I've done that contributed to that. I'm doing the best I can to work on myself as well, because I don't want to be unhappy either. Whether this is truly the end of us or not, I need to change these things. I do have some positive qualities, I just need to focus more on them and try not to be so dissatisfied with everything. Sometimes I wonder if coming here was a mistake for me because I simply don't make enough money here; hence, my application to finish a doctorate and probably leave Arkansas for a better job.

You were my best friend and lover, and I couldn't have asked for a more loyal and committed spouse; this is not your fault and I do acknowledge that. The world is so full of fair-weather friends and summer-soldiers, that I do feel fortunate to have had a spouse who was as committed and forgiving as you were; you stuck it out when most wouldn't and I regret not seeing the red flags before this happened. And yes, it is true that at night I've noticed how I never roll over into your space. I guess that over the years' I've become so used to having you in bed with me at night that I still unconciously do that. I would not have had the successes that I've had without you having been there to support me; for that, I will always love and respect you. I'm glad my babies were made with you; they're intelligent and beautiful because of it (but I didn't detract from that either :-). I wish you could attend school here and let me help you, because you deserve to go and I hope you will. Please know that you're always welcome to come back home, and if you did we'd live in a smaller, cheaper house and YOU would get to attend school. I'd work two jobs and let you go because you do deserve it. Yes, I've accepted that you're gone but do hope that at some point in the future I might change enough to show you I'm worth another chance. Anyway, that's enough for now. I love you and miss you and the children. As soon as I get a minute and a stable place I'll visit with them and let you know; please don't take that as my not wanting them and I'll keep in touch. Please tell the children that I love them and miss them and that Daddy will see them as soon as possible.

I agree. But it's not that easy to break a habit like that. It really takes focus, discipline, and practice, as well as commitment. It will take months of self restraint and looking on the bright side. Definitely not impossible though.

Positively makes my heart glow just thinking about it! I hope this can work out. Now I'm all ready to cheer Greatbignow on...

No, it's not easy but I've turned around a life marred by drugs, alcohol, and criminal activity. If I can do that and come out a better person, I can definitely treat my wife with respect, love, and empathy while trying to focus on what is good in life. I've seen some of the worst in people and been in some unbelievable situations (mostly of my own making); having a family and working isn't that bad.

Wow, you've had quite the colorful life! This does give us a little more insight into how you've gotten to where you are now. When I said "fess up," you really did! Have you ever thought of sharing your experiences and writing a book, or submitting your story to a magazine, to supplement your income?

I do have to applaud you for the steps you've taken to turn your life around. Some of them mandatory, and some by your own hard work, diligence and perserverance. Also I must give you kudos for sticking around and taking our advice in stride. Many would have gotten angry with us at this point and told us to shove our advice. You have a once in a lifetime opportunity to attend President elect Obama's inauguration ceremony. I'm sure you will hear some very encouraging words, that could, in part, help you with learning how to gain peace in your own life, and maybe in the relationship you are presently having with your wife. Use this opportunity to teach you how you can better work with your love for your wife and children. Your way isn't working, and I'm sure if you listen closely, you will find some wise words that will help you to see more clearly, and focus on what is important and what is not. Of course this doesn't mean that it will change how your wife is feeling, but it may change the way you handle things on a day to day basis, with your wife and kids, and the way you see things in general.

You have proven in the past that you can pull yourself up when given no other choice. It's once again time to do this again. Try and think of this as marriage "boot camp!" Just know that this time you may not be able to be in control of the outcome. But, you can certainly be pro-active in the process.

Your wife may have just had enough, and will never change her mind. You have to be prepared for that. The only thing you are in control of is you! Maybe if she sees actions backing your words, and sees a little bit of the man she fell in love with, she might just come around. But the ball is in your court now! You can choose to punish her, accuse her, be vindictive, use the kids as weapons, etc. or you can show her that regardless of her decision, you are going to be the best Daddy, and the best person you can be. If you play your cards right, and lighten up a bit, she just might take notice.

Another thing you must not do, is harass or barrage her with details of the steps you have taken to change. You can tell her that you are working on it for the sake of your family, but leave it at that. In other words, don't start with the arrogance thing again. Don't say I've done this, but what have YOU done. Don't give her the whole "I've been through this and done that," and what have YOU done? Boost her up instead of bringing her down.

Offer to do anything you can do, within reason, to put her through nursing school. As Wondergirl and Asking have said, there are many opportunities in the Health Care field. Tell her you will do your best to support her efforts, so you can assure the welfare of your children and your future. The children are not allowed to be used as pawns. They will resent you later in life if you do that. Instead they should be treated how you would want to be. No more calling it "babysitting." It doesn't matter what she is doing. These are your children!

You gone through a lot and changed the way you do things. You can change this around too. The bottom line is, you can only control how you choose to act. You can't control how she chooses to live her life. It just doesn't work that way.

Well, I'm finally back. Thank you for your responses and support, and I have to say I'm surprised that this online forum has been of so much benefit. Yes, I've learned that accountability and feedback can be painfully honest at times, but my two years in treatment was a constant barrage of that kind of living and group therapy. It made what I'm doing now possible. Yes, I've actually thought about writing of my exerience, especially given the historical nature of Arkansas' prisons. Some of it was absolutely horrid, while other parts were humorous beyond belief. Maybe I could make it onto Oprah except I wouldn't have to lie about my experiences like that other guy did to simply sell books. I need to start writing down some of these notes before I forget them.

Obama's inauguration was a historic event. While I did not vote for him, and am cautiously skeptical of his policy views, there was an air of hope and confidence that I haven't seen or felt in a long time. My students have an expanded view of the world, and I sincerely hope that they come back with a new resolve for their own futures.

Ok, back to my reason for being here. I spoke with my wife today for about an hour. I told her that I loved her sincerely, and that I never wanted her to be unhappy. Also, I informed her that I had been off my depression medication for about six months because we couldn't afford it and I didn't want to bother them with it. She said, "Oh, I wish I would have known that." Not quite sure what to make of that. She agreed and said that it was sad to end a 13 year relationship with a family, and I told her that if she wanted to come home at some point I'd agree to let her stay at home and attend school since we'd have a smaller, cheaper house. To that she responded that the offer was appreciated, but that at this point she feels the separation will likely be permanent. I didn't badger or even press any hard questions, I told her I wanted her to be successful, that I missed her terribly (though not fighting with her), and that I wish we would have had more open communication regarding our issues. She responded yes, but that she felt to resentful and angry towards me that she wasn't sure anything I could have done would have made a difference. She said there's nothing left to work on anymore. I told her that I respect how she feels, and that she's always displayed good judgement but that her own father was separated for 5 years from his wife of 10 years, and that some friends of ours even remarried after divorcing. She replied that she's aware things like that do occur, but that at this point she just doesn't see it happening. She is however, going to wait for the divorce, though she doesn't really consider this a separation now. She explained that she is finally beginning to be happy again and doesn't feel like she's under constant stress from me and our situation. On a positive note, when she comes down next weekend she agreed to have lunch with me (and without any real reason we should do so, not sure what to make of it and I'm just going to try and enjoy her company; I miss her terribly and long to shower her with hugs, kisses, and love but it probably won't help to try and go that far; I just want to show her that I respect and love her and hopefully enjoy each other's company).

She also said that if she were me she'd get a doctorate. I like my current job but it just doesn't pay enough and I feel like it's a dead-end professional position. What I did like about this conversation is that it seemed to be constructive, no matter that she said this is likely permanent. When I told her in a heartfelt manner how much I loved her and that she had been my best friend, and that pretty much every memory I've had of my adulthood included her, she almost sounded regretful, and said that she was sorry it turned out this way; she didn't want this either. So, she's coming down next week and her dad will keep the kids because I just don't have the cash to feed them or do anything with them (my water was turned off this morning and I took a sponge bath with the drippings that were still in my hot water heater... I'm serious when I say our finances have been ruined due to this). If the lunch goes well, I might ask if she wants to go out and see a movie or maybe even go to the casino for a few hands of blackjack. The fact that she's going to lunch with me looks to be a good sign, in my opinion. What do you think? Thanks for all the feedback, and I appreciate the honesty.

Okay, I live in the 50th poorest state and am affilitated with an university. You are very condescending about her and her families education. I also bet you surround yourself with those you feel worthy to be in your company... other scholars and professionals.

With that, she may not feel she can contribute or has any self worth in your eyes. She may just want to find someone who can accept her for all her faults and lack of stick to it ness. That could be you if...

This is complicated, involved, and I think you are self aware and really trying. I just thought I would point this out.

I do wish you the best and am glad you have stuck around through all the slinging. Everyone is on yourside, hoping to help you pull this together, and there is plenty of fault on both sides I am sure.

One last thing, you can suspend your student loan payments for up to a year, you can try to break your lease and move somewhere cheaper, and you can enter a debt management program which will lower you CC bills to what you can afford.

One last thing, you can suspend your student loan payments for up to a year, you can try to break your lease and move somewhere cheaper, and you can enter a debt management program which will lower you CC bills to what you can afford.

Been where you are financially. This may or may not help.

I may have to do that, or I'm considering going into a doctoral program so that they'd be deferred again.

I was posting while you were Aaron. That was a very heartfelt letter to your wife. Maybe she will read it a few times and take it in the manner it was meant to be read.

One other thing. I've been considering applying to a doctoral program at my old university (University of Arkansas). I'd be close to my children (close enough for joint custody, if this does end in divorce), I could help her with them (help her go to school), and it would also increase the possibility of a reconciliation because I'd be closer to her (I'd have to be careful though because I could also try to smother her since I miss and love her/them so much). What does the board think about this?

One other thing. I've been considering applying to a doctoral program at my old university (University of Arkansas). I'd be close to my children (close enough for joint custody, if this does end in divorce), I could help her with them (help her go to school), and it would also increase the possibility of a reconciliation because I'd be closer to her (I'd have to be careful though because I could also try to smother her since I miss and love her/them so much). What does the board think about this?

You've come a long way since your first post on this board. You are much more introspective and also very aware of what you could do wrong to mess up the whole thing. You are now looking outside of yourself and have become much more empathetic of your wife. I like the idea of your returning to school at your old university. You'd be back in what is familiar to you, and, as you said, you'd be close to your family again. And yes, you would have to be very, very careful in what you say to your wife and how you act.

But guess what! You now have a support group and an Internet family who are in your corner! We will tell it like it is and offer suggestions for improvement. Obama says "Yes, we can." Pick up a hint from that and apply that slogan to yourself and to your own situation. (And, by the way, my younger son was able to defer his government loans from his undergrad days by staying in school. He earned three company-paid master's degrees over five years and now has a great job that enables him to pay monthly on loans.)

We're here for you! Please let us know how that lunch goes. (We know you will be at your best!! )

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