That Kim line raised a little red flag, but ignored it. But now that you mention it, it's making more and more sense. Jimmy getting increasingly beholden to drug dealers to help Kim, and once she's inevitably gone, so is Jimmy.

According to an interview with McKean it's not a fakeout, Chuck's dead

Heh, it never stops amusing me that people will watch a character clearly killed, and immediately argue, "We didn't see the flesh burn away from his bones! Where were the screams of agony as the fire slowly consumes him and his body falls apart! HE'S NOT DEAD!"

I mean, there are times when it's right to be suspicious of an implied death. But when it's a character the show doesn't -need-, at the end of an arc that artistically seems to lead to death, why be suspicious? Especially when you're watching a prequel to a show where said character is conspicuously not present...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schwartz

I wouldn't necessarily want either for a partner, or employee, or attorney (my heart goes out to Kim and Howard the most in all this).

It's pretty amazing that Howard has become one of the more sympathetic characters on the show. The only worrisome part of the finale is that his character doesn't seem to have a role in the show going forward.

I think he still has the potential to become a nemesis for Jimmy, should he discover how Jimmy was (in a roundabout way) responsible for Chuck's death. Howard and Chuck may not have parted on the best of terms but they were still work partners for a very long time, and their separation was essentially caused by Jimmy, after all.

It's pretty amazing that Howard has become one of the more sympathetic characters on the show. The only worrisome part of the finale is that his character doesn't seem to have a role in the show going forward.

His arc seems fairly well concluded. Other than perhaps some Sandpiper related issues, we've come full circle with Howard and there's nothing left to explore.

It came a season too late in my mind, but the Chuck/HMM storylines were really magnificently tied up.

It's pretty amazing that Howard has become one of the more sympathetic characters on the show. The only worrisome part of the finale is that his character doesn't seem to have a role in the show going forward.

Patrick Fabian has really done some incredible work to make Howard into an actual person, not that it's the type that gets recognized by awards and such.

Heh, it never stops amusing me that people will watch a character clearly killed, and immediately argue, "We didn't see the flesh burn away from his bones! Where were the screams of agony as the fire slowly consumes him and his body falls apart! HE'S NOT DEAD!"

I mean, there are times when it's right to be suspicious of an implied death. But when it's a character the show doesn't -need-, at the end of an arc that artistically seems to lead to death, why be suspicious? Especially when you're watching a prequel to a show where said character is conspicuously not present...

I can sort of see why people would be suspicious given the size of the final frame and the way it cuts just as the fire starts spreading - I wasn't 100% sure myself - but it definitely felt like the right time to tie up Chuck's arc.

My feeling was that Chuck's delay in answering the door was so he could turn on some lights and the record player just to fuck with Jimmy and and lend weight to whatever he decided to tell him. He then promptly loses his shit after Jimmy leaves.

And Jimmy's regrets aren't just lip service - when it finally dawns on him what he'd done to the old lady, he makes amends, to his own detriment.

Chuck is bitter and cruel.

Jimmy is a lying schemer, but still has a soul.

I don't know, the way it played out with Jimmy having to be read the riot act before he even tried making amends (even if it did end with self-sacrifice) seemed more like he was trying to prove Chuck wrong about himself rather than anything else. Not to say he didn't feel guilty, but if he'd never spoken to Chuck, he would've gotten over it, taken the money and run.

Ohh god the image of a dead Kim with a needle in her arm fucking haunts me already.

Bastard!

I was just about to watch the finale when I skimmed the Chud new posts page on my phone and your post came up in it's entirety. So I spent the entire show waiting for Kim's trip to Blockbuster for her favourite childhood films and perfect chip eating to end up with her killing herself with an overdose, notwithstanding the fact I could imagine how that would work in context. I even talked to myself in a mid-episode piss break debating how it could possibly work without being the kind of cheat I'd stop watching the show over.

And to make matters worse I was so fixated on the apparently spoiled ending that I wasn't really engaged on Chucks story and so spent a good few minutes at the end completely failing to process what had actually happened.

Bastard!

PS totally not your fault.

PPS I'm guessing we get the final fall next season with Kim orbiting him as he falls until such time as she has to bug out and his turn is complete.

I'm guessing I'm not the first person on the web to make this connection, but that montage of Chuck destroying his house reminded me heavily of the ending to THE CONVERSATION.

McKean did great work on this show. His performance evoked a lot of empathy for Chuck that made him a maddeningly complicated person to react to. While I didn't know he'd go out exactly this way, his fate felt inevitable. I think the season's biggest surprise for me was that Kim and Jimmy's relationship not only survived it, but seems to have been emboldened.

I was just about to watch the finale when I skimmed the Chud new posts page on my phone and your post came up in it's entirety. So I spent the entire show waiting for Kim's trip to Blockbuster for her favourite childhood films and perfect chip eating to end up with her killing herself with an overdose, notwithstanding the fact I could imagine how that would work in context. I even talked to myself in a mid-episode piss break debating how it could possibly work without being the kind of cheat I'd stop watching the show over.

And to make matters worse I was so fixated on the apparently spoiled ending that I wasn't really engaged on Chucks story and so spent a good few minutes at the end completely failing to process what had actually happened.

Bastard!

PS totally not your fault.

PPS I'm guessing we get the final fall next season with Kim orbiting him as he falls until such time as she has to bug out and his turn is complete.

Chuck's death is the final straw that will cause Jimmy to lose Kim. In regards to her accident, she said "I am an adult, I make my own choices".

She also chose to represent Jimmy against Chuck and was party to the fake out that proves to be Chuck's undoing.

Also telling is the To Kill a Mockingbird bit, Kim wants to be a good person, she will realize that she cannot be one with Jimmy.

I love that this show is so hard on Jimmy, I tire of people with 'good hearts' and 'good intentions' who do inane self righteous shit and then cry about the fallout later. This show continues to condemn the personalities of both brothers and they both deserve it.

After being good enough to confirm THE CONVERSATION reference on our behalf, Vince Gilligan and Peter Gould address the still pending renewal:

Quote:

We know you're not ending the series here. We know the show does well for AMC. What is the hold-up on the official renewal for a fourth season?

Gilligan: Honestly, it's obviously not a secret that Zack Van Amburg and Jamie Erlicht left Sony TV and there's just a little bit of reorganizing going at Sony, but the ship, there's still folks at the tiller and and it's just a matter of … Who the f--- knows? (Laughs.) It's gonna be fine. The timing was a bit unfortunate in that there's a little bit of stuff up in the air over at Sony, but it'll all get worked out. A couple of good guys left Sony, but there's a lot of good people still at Sony and it'll all get worked out. We're going forward with the certainty that there is gonna be more and it's just a matter of logistics as to when, exactly, it gets going. We're not worried. I say that having absolutely been worried in the past. I'm worried at all right now. We're gonna forward. There will be a season four. The only question is when will it go on air.

Gould: I think we feel very supported by Sony and by AMC.

Gilligan: And that's the important part.

Gould: We now have a 10-year relationship with these two companies, which is something so special and rare in show business. There's been definitely some folks coming and going and anyone who reads the trades can figure that out, but I think we feel really good about where we are. It's just a matter of time.

Gilligan: In years past, it was often a matter of "if." This year it's not a matter of "if," it's just a matter of when. Our blood pressure is pretty low here, relatively speaking. Certainly compared to previous seasons of Breaking Bad.

His introductory scene gets re-watched a lot by me. I love seeing him do his Vito Corleone routine on Mike, where the threat is totally there under the surface but he's wrapping it up in that avuncular, even doddering "I'm looking out for everybody" attitude.

Later, of course, we see him in his element:

I wouldn't mind Season 4 showing the first of Gus's routine visits to Hector in the nursing home.

Interesting that Gus probably saved Hector's life, who then ends up being the "object" of his demise. Nacho's fate strikes me as maybe the most interesting questions that still remains unanswered. I know people point to Saul yelling out his name when he's kidnapped by Walt and Jessie but I'm not convinced its the same Nacho.

As for Kim, I hadn't considered that she becomes an addict. I was thinking more that she just flat out leaves Jimmy and New Mexico behind. She says something that she's only gotten like 6 hours of sleep, then cancels all her appointments, then goes to Blockbuster and gets a ton of DVDs. Maybe she gives up on the law altogether and tells Jimmy that she wants to put it all behind her and makes Jimmy swear that he won't stop her or go looking for her. Consequently, Jimmy sees he's lost everyone he cares about and "Saul Goodman" is born.

Just because Ignacio was the first name that came to mind when he was groping for someone who might have the ability and desire to put a hit out doesn't necessarily mean that Nacho is sitll alive. At most, it would mean that if died, Saul didn't hear about it. And there's ways to massage around that too, if you really wanted to.

Yeah, Saul and Nacho don't really run in the same circles, and people who whack other people don't regularly send out newsletters about it. Mike ends up as Saul's main link to that world, and Mike's not exactly a chatty Cathy.

Interesting that Gus probably saved Hector's life, who then ends up being the "object" of his demise. Nacho's fate strikes me as maybe the most interesting questions that still remains unanswered. I know people point to Saul yelling out his name when he's kidnapped by Walt and Jessie but I'm not convinced its the same Nacho.

As for Kim, I hadn't considered that she becomes an addict. I was thinking more that she just flat out leaves Jimmy and New Mexico behind. She says something that she's only gotten like 6 hours of sleep, then cancels all her appointments, then goes to Blockbuster and gets a ton of DVDs. Maybe she gives up on the law altogether and tells Jimmy that she wants to put it all behind her and makes Jimmy swear that he won't stop her or go looking for her. Consequently, Jimmy sees he's lost everyone he cares about and "Saul Goodman" is born.

nice idea, but I don't think that will be Kim's path, Jimmy would pursue and try to 'save' her. Plus at this point, I don't think a show would ultimately portray the female lead as 'weak'. Ultimately Chuck's fate will make her leave Jimmy out of disgust for her own role in that. Kim has to reject Jimmy or die for Saul to come about.

nice idea, but I don't think that will be Kim's path, Jimmy would pursue and try to 'save' her. Plus at this point, I don't think a show would ultimately portray the female lead as 'weak'. Ultimately Chuck's fate will make her leave Jimmy out of disgust for her own role in that. Kim has to reject Jimmy or die for Saul to come about.

Just because Ignacio was the first name that came to mind when he was groping for someone who might have the ability and desire to put a hit out doesn't necessarily mean that Nacho is sitll alive. At most, it would mean that if died, Saul didn't hear about it. And there's ways to massage around that too, if you really wanted to.

BB happens about 5 years from this current season so for Nacho's name to still be in Saul's head (as opposed to being some guy he knew waaaay in the past and that he has no reason to believe the shooter would recognise), it makes sense that they'd have had recent dealings. Obviously there's ways to work around it but given the meticulousness with which these guys work and the way they tie things together, I'm willing to bet Nacho's good. The only other possibility, I guess, is that it's a very deliberate red herring.

Someone on Reddit pointed out that during one of Hank's briefing scenes at the beginning of Breaking Bad, a photograph of Krazy-8's mugshot with a booking date of 10/13/03 is shown. We're in 2003 on this show now. If we get to see Krazy-8's arrest, they can plant the seeds for his turning informant for the DEA. Maybe even a Hank cameo.

I'll be curious to see if Hamlin comes back. The character and HHM as a whole don't need to factor into this story anymore, but there are a lot of ways Chuck's death can be reacted to. Howard and Jimmy might blame themselves or each other for how he went out. We've seen how destructive Jimmy can be unintentionally, but when he's being deliberately vindictive (the insurance office) he really goes scorched earth. If he decides the firm is responsible for Chuck's demise, I can imagine a scenario where Jimmy razes HHM to the ground after all. And if he inherits his brother's ability to hold a grudge, that would certainly be a path Kim wouldn't follow him on.

We see Howard give Chuck the check, so it may have already been deposited. Who gets Chuck's wealth would be dictated by his will (since I'm sure he's got one), and it would be ironic yet plausible if Chuck leaves everything to the firm he built.

We see Howard give Chuck the check, so it may have already been deposited. Who gets Chuck's wealth would be dictated by his will (since I'm sure he's got one), and it would be ironic yet plausible if Chuck leaves everything to the firm he built.

This is also complicated by the fact Howard was paying Chuck out of his own pocket in several installments, so I'm not sure what documentation exists and how that will work since Jimmy is his last living relative. Though it wouldn't surprise me for Chuck's ex-wife to still be his beneficiary either.