I am happy to say that the editors clipped out her opening question, in which she tried to use NAEP scale scores as “grades” for the U.S., , which they are not.

A scale is a trend line. It is better to see scores go up than down. The scale itself is an artificial construct (as all scales are). It is not aligned with any standards. You can’t say that a 300 is good or bad, you can only say that it is higher than 350 and lower than 400.

When scale scores go up, it is usually only by a few points. Depending on many factors, a 1-point gain may be statistically significant–or not.

Randi Kaye asserted at the opening of our interview that a scale score of 250 was “proof” that U.S. education was failing because 250 is 50% of 500. She turned that into a failing grade. She forgot to mention that students at the 90th percentile in achievement have a scale score of 276, so by her lights, they must be failing too. She just didn’t understand the numbers, nor did her editors and researchers. We battled about this for what seemed to be 3 minutes, which is an eternity on television.

The rest of the interview consisted of her relentless effort to “prove” that US education is failing: Look at failure in Highland Park, which was recently turned over to a for-profit charter corporation; look at American corporations outsourcing jobs to low-paying China and India, never to nations with a standard of living equal to ours; look at this hostile letter (oh, she left out the other one, from the guy who said I was not competent to talk about education).

Is CNN trying to become the new FOX?

Diane

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Thank you for tha added info about what was edited out. I watched as well and was left thinking “huh?”. Loved that you reminded her that the lawsuit is against the State of Michigan not teachers for lack of resources Nd funding.

Diane, it was clear that she was one sided and that you were put in the position to defend your position. It made her look terrible (Fox news comment is brilliant), not you. As always, I am grateful that America has you to speak the truth about what is happening to our public education system. You spoke the truth so eloquently and with great depth of knowledge. Thank you a million times over. Chris

Diane, you did a wonderful job! Very adversarial interview, sheesh. Also noted Rhee got even more air time in the lead-in. Well, now that they have you on tape, here’s hoping they’ll lead in some future segments with you! Many thanks!

Did anyone notice just what part of Rhee’s comments were used as the lead-in? CNN showed the part where Rhee was talking about the hundreds of thousands of excellent teachers. Was that a ploy to present Rhee as a “supporter” of teachers? How manipulative.

Diane, you were phenomenal in the face of an antagonistic line of questioning–questioning that had no real flow in the discussion on the part of Kaye. She merely just moved from question to question as if she had no vested interest in hearing your side. This was hardly a fair invitation to the discussion, but it spoke volumes about CNN’s position on the issue.

Keep up the fight–you are truly an inspiration to us all. Never give up. Never surrender.

Outstanding work Diane! You are grace under fire! I have already sent an email to CNN…first for thanking them for inviting you on the show, but then shaming them for their token gift to all of us who wrote after the Michelle Rhee interview.( Wasn’t her interview midmorning?) They could do better, they should do better! Their lack of respect for your background and education is an absolute insult to me. But.. you sure did us proud!!

This was obviously not an objective interview. It was an insult to good and fine interviewers everywhere. I was stunned (although I guess I shouldn’t have been) by Randi Kaye’s relentless challenge of the effectiveness of public schools, keeping Diane constantly on the defense. Thank you, Diane, for taking one on the chin for all of us. You did a great job! You inspire this teacher of 35 years to keep fighting the good fight.

I LOVE that description of Diane! Thanks for summing it up. Randi kept after Diane but could gain any ground.

I posted this under the earlier Mitt entry so I will re-post here on topic:

She was prepared with her material and you were unaware of what she would ask.
But because you are prepared, you answered every query solidly. It was so impressive to watch how quickly you came back with thorough responses. It was amazing to watch her continue to come back with follow-up questions, pursuing her storyline in spite of you having shot it down, time and again. She was clearly NOT interested in giving you airtime to describe privatization movement. And isn’t that the most telling of all? You articulated quite clearly (more than once) that there is an agenda of privatization using her Michigan story as your vehicle. SHE DID NOT ASK FOLLOW UP QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT. Either she is incredibly lacking in curiousity(a really bad thing for a reporter) or she is aware of the topic and they don’t want to give you the time to expand upon that issue for Saturday morning viewers to hear who might get curious about it. I am done with CNN.

That was not an interview but a cross-examination. That “rheeporter” was an obvious mouthpiece for the privatizers, particularly when compared with Michele Rhee’s earlier, “soft” interview. I said as much in an email to CNN a moment ago.

As for Highland Park, MI, of course it is struggling! I lived near there as a grad student in the late 90’s and it was one of the most impoverished and dangerous areas of Detroit. Privatizing Highland Park schools does not ameliorate these other conditions which interfere with those students’ education. Why didn’t Kaye show a writing sample from an 8th grader in affluent Bloomfield Hills or Grosse Pointe?

I just watched, and agree with your take. There is some political/financial motivation for Randi/CNN to treat the chance to hear from you as instead a chance to discredit your point of view. I had to go and find the Rhee interview Kaye did, because I had avoided it (knowing what I would hear from Rhee). I was more interested in seeing if Rhee had survived the slings and arrows, the cherry picked and invalid use of data, the portrayal of struggles as automatic assumptions of systemic failure.

Rhee got no such treatment. Even questions posed as quasi-criticisms were only softballs lobbed for Rhee to continue Students First PR. Diane gets ambushed with 1 student letter, 1 poverty stricken district/state, data is used selectively to support Kaye’s foregone conclusion, and the devastation profiteering has already caused this nation and the bulk of it’s children is ignored. Good teachers will reverse outsourcing and the undermining of the middle class family, Kaye? Really?

Rhee gets “tell us more about what you think”. CNN, Randi Kaye…do you not know Rhee’s history? How she benefits from “reform”? How ALEC really operates and what it’s legislative agenda is regarding public money to private pockets?

You were the epitomy of grace under pressure. You skillfully debunked everything she threw at you with facts. I agree they cut the NAEP question because it was apparent you schooled them and it made them look bad. Hopefully, they really did learn something about the true state of education and the FACT that it is being set up for privatization. Thank you for speaking out so eloquently on school reform.

I thought you did a masterful job in the face of a clearly biased interviewer. You were pure grace under fire. You spoke the truth in spite of her deliberately leading questions, and I was cheering you on along with the other teachers in the audience who were surely watching this morning. Thank you for your continued efforts on behalf of public schools and public school educators. We desperately need your continued voice and advocacy.

I was really worried when you wrote about the interview after the taping, but after watching it, I was pleased. I know she didn’t agree with your assessments and kept pushing back opposing questions, but she allowed you to state your case very well without interruption. You did a terrific job responding, and I truly believe the way the interview was conducted allowed the audience to make its own conclusions about what to believe.

I think we just need to acknowledge that especially now, money buys speech and media time. When I look at what is happening here in New Jersey and what is conveyed in the press – whose messages – I see the messages of those with the money make it to press far faster, with more frequency and exposure than those messages of us grass roots people, unfunded, fighting to save and improve public schools. So we go everywhere – we show up where they do not and where they do. And we comment on every article, blog and post. It is tiring, but we have your amazing lead to follow and we benefit greatly from your relentless willingness to say what needs to be said ensuring all of us have a better chance at being heard. Thank you.

Just saw your interview. As my 8th graders would say…You go girl! Despite the interviewer’s efforts to play Gotcha, you kept on track and made excellent points on test scores, merit pay, poverty, privatization, outsourcing, and the desire of teachers to collaborate rather than compete. I thought it was disgraceful that one 8th grader’s writing sample was used in an effort to tar public schools. As you noted, an anecdote is not a trend. I too have seen writing samples similar to what was shown on air. I teach language arts in an urban public school with an economically and ethnically diverse group of students. I would never just assume that a child who wrote poorly did so because of bad teachers for 7 years. I would do my very best to work with that child using every bit of knowledge or skill I have acquired as a teacher. I would also try to figure out what else is going on. Is the child hungry or homeless? Does he/she have a learning disability? Is he/she an English language learner? I would meet with the parents and listen to what they had to say. I would hope to make a difference. Thank you Diane for speaking out on behalf of all of us working in public schools.

JusT watched interview and find it frustrating that Randi clearly has no interest in your response other than to get beyond it to next question. What happened to the idea that journalists should know somethong about the topic so they can engage in the interview and engage the audience? Syne they too think you ask five questions and get a score not an education.

Diane, I think you did a great job combating Randy’s slanted questions. One important point that needs to be made is that oftentimes schools in poorer areas do not receive the funding and supporting services needed to help children to overcome the baggage that they bring to school. While testing is an important part of education, other factors need to be taken into account so that all of our children receive a quality of education.
Thank you for providing people with a more accurate picture of our public schools.

Kaye’s interview is an example of Yellow Journalism. She tried to sensationalize an issue, using extremes, false accusations and innuendo. Unfortunately, Yellow Journalistic strategies are becoming the norm with the third estate.

There was a reason she taped your interview rather than do it live. Kaye’s agenda was not to interview but to attack public education.
Her first stat, showing teacher salaries was an attempt to show some teachers are paid much more than others. She never acknowledged that salaries are affected by cost of living issues in each region, State, and county.

Her most disturbing stunt was to read a letter from a student who obviously has some learning issues. Was this child learning disabled or perhaps a recent immigrant learning a new language? What is going on in the life of this child? Living in extreme poverty, parents? How old was this child?

Diane, schooled Kaye using details and facts. She was masterful. I don’t think I could have kept my cool like Diane did. Unfortunately, we all witnessed Kaye not listening ( watch the interview again). She wasn’t listening and learning she was getting ready to read her next prepared question and showing her next ‘gotcha’ quote.

Kaye knew she didn’t have a chance , that’s why she was reading her questions. It’s evidence she doesn’t understand the issue. If she did, she would have conducted the interview more like a discussion.

Perhaps, we can hope Kaye learned on lesson, the lesson that parroting Rhee’s Students First’s talking points comes with the consequence of looking like a fool.

Exactly, in reference to the student paper…what did Randi know about him or her. Was this an ELL student or sped? Was the student receiving services? How often had this child moved: schools, towns, districts, states? What was the attendance record for this child?

On CNN at 9:30-Job Creators show-it was just said that “teachers are not job creator jobs-a plumber is.” Do they not realize that teachers are job creators-they are preparing those that will BE the job creators of our future economy. Do they not realize that teachers are consumers and put the money they make right back into the economy? It is still an investment NOW and in the FUTURE

You are correct about CNN, Diane. It is seriously attempting to remake itself as Fox Lite to boost its terrible ratings. Randi Kaye used to be a serious reporter back in her Minnesota and early CNN days, but in light of massive firings at CNN obviously has chosen to be a corporate shill. Trust CNN no more than Fox. Money is controlling the message. Try MSNBC and Current. Small voices of reason in a sea of babble.

Watched both Kaye interviews of yourself and Rhee. Difference was that Rhee was asked how to fix while your statements were challenged. On the whole however I thought you were very successful in replying to her questions. Kaye played devil’s advocate with you unlike her interview with Rhee.

CNN has been Fox-Light for quite some time! I just don’t understand, other than ALEC and their ilk, why the media has bought into this narrative. Except for Ed Schultz, it exists n MSNBC as well. It’s as if it has become conventional wisdom.

Thanks, Diane, for being a voice of reason in this horrid ed reform debate. Despite the obvious bias in this pseudo-interview, I appreciated the fact that you answered all of her questions with facts. However, I am disheartened that CNN has become just as bad as Fox and MSNBCs disgraceful Education Nation. Apparently, the corporate profits are fueling this drive for reform, and neither politicians nor the media care about the facts.

By the way, I could hear the cheers across the country from teachers far and wide when you talked about what they really want is to be able to collaborate and work together. That is the true source
of the problem. In one district I know, the central administration puts everyone’s license on a board, and moves teachers around according to licensure, without any regard for what teams of teachers are doing well, or whether that teacher has ever taught that subject in his/her 20+ years of teaching. So much for administrators claiming they are doing what is best for the children!

People have been sold this idea that schools are “failing” for so long that if you try to tell them that the reality is that public education is better now than it has ever been – and it is – their heads explode. So they pull out a letter from a child who obviously has writing difficulties – and who all of us would love to help – as some kind of indictment. No one is happy that there is a child writing at that level, but my gut tells me there are fewer of those in this country than there ever have been.

The fact is that schools aren’t “failing”. Could schools do better? Sure. Do they have to do better? Yes. Will doing what school “reformers” are asking us to do accomplish that goal? Every bit of evidence available points to no. We all know what it will take to improve education. When the reformers are ready to work together – and drop their “magical” thinking and do things that will work – I’m sure there will be many people willing to find a real solution.

Great idea. I am going to dig out some examples, take off students’ names and send them to her next week. I will ask that she read them on the air the next time Rhee or Perry appear. If we can all send one or two samples, maybe she will actually learn something.

We need to get Diane Ravitch on Moyers and Company for an in depth interview with Bill Moyers. It is the only place on the American media where she can present the case for public education without her interview getting the corporate spin.

Web source shows Randi Kaye is a1981 graduate of Mountain High School in West Orange, NJ, then on to Boston Univ. Good to see she was able to rise above her “flawed” public school background. I’m sure her teachers are proud of her today.

It’s not that these journalists uncritically accept the premises of corporate education reform, but rather they’re afraid that their managers will leave them alone with Michelle Rhee and her broom, and that their daughters will be left alone with her pedophile husband, Kevin Johnson.

Yes philaken – why hasn’t Diane been on Moyers? We all need to make that case to Mr. Moyers.

Diane – you were great in your clear concise ANSWERS that directly responded to her questions – something that Rhee and other rhetoricists just don’t and can’t do.

As for the assumption that Kaye is purposefully forwarding the corporate spin – I don’t believe for one minute that any of these main stream journalists know the complex truths about education reform much less understand the field of education. I find it difficult to keep up myself and I work at it full time as both an educator and a journalist.

In the end though – I think we are looking at it wrongly. First of all the strategy of presenting one letter from one child and expecting the public to accept that as analogous of all children is indicative of the of a journlist’s inability to present a valid argument and also must be seen by the public/parents as a sign of their disrespect for their intelligence and what they know as reality.

My guess is that the reason that shills like Rhee and Steve Perry get so much air time, and it’s hard for experts like Diane, is because the journalists who interview them don’t have to ask the difficult questions and don’t have to worry about responding to the answers. I find Soledad O’Brien to be different in that regard because she boldly reaches out for real answers to real questions. She is intelligent enough and skilled enough to understand that when she asks real/relevant questions that a purely rhetorical empty response is just that and she reaches deeper. A real journlist asks questions as though he/she is seeking a real answers, not as bait or for ratings effect. Has she ever interviewed you Diane?

Diane – you had not only real answers that were clear and concise and countered Kaye’s misleading commentary but you were able to profit from repetition of those answers by rewording and reapplying them to other questions throughout your interview. That is a very effective way to “teach.” On the other hand we all suffer the endless repetitious rhetoric of reform and its vocabulary and empty responses that make the speaker appear to be brainwashed and having memorized a script because he/she can’t craft a real answer to a real question. The repetitious delivery though is quite different – one effectively reinforcing a concept and truly engaging the listener while the other dulls our minds and does not give the listener the ability to use it in any other way than to parrot the response. That’s why we can tell a “reformer” from an educator as soon as they open their mouths.

I think opportunities like this are of much greater import than being interviewed by someone who is obviously supporting the guest. The fact is, there is no way that Kaye could have overcome your excellent case.

Thank you Diane for being who you are. After 35 years of successful teaching, I am beginning to feel the strain of all these attacks on teachers. But then I am reminded by former and current students alike, why I do what I do. You are a gem and I thank you!

In response to your question, “Is CNN trying to become the new FOX?” My opinion is that CNN is just being CNN. This is not the first issue with which CNN seems to have a preconceived agenda.

Showing one poorly written 8th grade writing sample in an effort to disparage the teaching profession was disgusting, dirty, and pitiful at the same time. You more than held your own, Diane, and I am beyond grateful.

CNN is not the only culprit. Check out the PBS series “Makers” depicting exemplary American women, with an episode featuring M. Rhee. And not a segment featuring Diane?!?

PBS and NPR have shaped my world view as long as I’ve been old enough to watch and listen. But now I am not part of the audience PBS, or CNN care about reaching. So, maybe “we” should say something to PBS too, in our unified teacher’s voices.

Diane reminds me of Joan, the maid of Orleans. Difference now is teachers are far more tenacious and formidable than were the humble, valiant and doomed French people of nearly a thousand years ago. Our kings may be owned by our banks, but we are reading and writing. The pen is mightier. I’ve built my life on it.

The teachers now speak thru DIane for justice as the angels did with Joan. Our champion is well-loved and defended, as was The Maid. But: We are literate. We publish. We share a unified voice informed by a common moral compass. We teach. Sometimes we have jobs, but all the time we are teachers.

I wrote CNN this morning and chided them and Randi Kaye for their shoddy treatment of Dr. Ravitch. I don’t know if it will do any good, but if enough other people weigh in, perhaps they will pay attention. We can only hope.

I am going to try and make this short. I called and I received a call back that unfortunately went into voice mail. First name only, Brian left a message that the transcript would be posted. I found it and put the full transcript and link on the other CNN post from today. I called back and they kept transferring me to leave a voice mail. I called one more time and hit the 1 for news tips and Brian answered. I recognized his voice immediately. I thanked him for calling me back, but I told him ALL public school teachers want the video on line NOT the transcript. I pointed out that Rhee’s interview was posted, so why not Ravitch? He said it didn’t mean they wouldn’t eventually. I asked him to please make sure someone knows we want this video posted ASAP.

Has the interview video been posted somewhere? I would like to see it, as I am unable to find it on CNN´s web site…should I be surprised? heh…anyway if someone has it, please send me the link to abelardo.garciajr@gmail.com

Both parties are wrong as to what scaled scores are (or “scale scores,” if you prefer). They are raw scores transformed to a scale. They are not a percentage correct, as Randi Kaye seems to believe. Those are called “raw scores.” And they are not trend scores, as Diane Ravitch states. A trendline can be created from scale scores or raw scores as long as two data points are present and criteria for comparability are met.

I know you don’t care for disparaging words from those who comment on your blog posts. So, I won’t. CNN has been losing ratings and Time Warner-AOL is considering discontinuing the feed. That is well known by those in the media business. I offer this site: http://www.whoownsthenews.com/ . If we are to save public schools from total annihilation by for-profit corporatization, we need to organize: a clearing house for all our disparate groups and voices; a coalition with civil rights, human rights, and other organizations that represent the voices of people who are otherwise not heard or listened to; unite public school unions’ approaches to the fight against corporate takeover of public education. I see little unification on a national basis.

I agree with one of the comments above, you were ambushed on CNN. While there are few on the planet who possess your esteemed reputation, knowledge, and experience, it is of great importance that the media voice for the saving of public schools take the persona of media-speak. Most viewers of the major networks, as you said, are being hammered by the MSM propaganda that our public schools and teachers are failing. You, and others of great mind and experience continue to provide the information and allow a persona of an Alan Grayson present it. How does Rhee, et al. succeed with their messaging? Repetition and Rhetoric. Only, in our case, the rhetoric will be factual.

Television viewers will join us, not through logical and rational explanation, but by selling the idea of what is being taken away from them. People fear loss more than any possibility of future gain. With your leadership in the voice of a policy law attorney shark media savvy heavy hitter able to control the narrative as the GOP do, able to override obvious ambushes from the corporate shill talking heads and commentators, then we begin to get our narrative out loud enough to have those TV viewing folks listen up rather than being confused by an explicit attempt to confuse the viewer.

Next stop: The Rachel Maddow Show. You would do well on this show as you will be given the chance to bring your expert testimony out in the open for the viewers in the most optimal way. CNN disgraced your unparalleled position in public education. Let our hired guns handle the commentators of such obscenity. You control the narrative through them. You appear on programming that is not designed with seemingly lurking deception. Then we will be able to SELL the benefits of public schools and the loss to it through corporate takeover. Features, I’m sure, to which most TV viewers would relate.

Diane,
Thank you once again for everything you do for public education and teachers.
These are my comments to CNN:

I watched Randi Kaye’s interview about education with Diane Ravitch this morning.
That was one of the most unprofessional interviews I have ever seen. I also watched Kaye’s interview last week with Michelle Rhee. The two interviews were completely different. Rhee was never challenged with facts on her failed plans to privatize public schools. Kaye even used a biased chart supplied by the corporate backed American Legislative Exchange Council or ALEC to support Rhee’s false claims! Ravitch was constantly attacked and successfully countered every myth and lie about public education with FACTS. The lowest point of the cross examination was when Kaye showed a poorly written letter by a student. This letter was supposed to prove how public education is a failure.
CNN is not the “most trusted name in news.” It has become a fact-free zone where anyone can espouse false information and is rarely challenged. On recent exception was Soledad O’Brien challenging Romney spokesman, John Sununu lying about Obama stealing $716 from Medicare. Again is this the exception not the rule on CNN.
Shame on CNN!

Dear Ms. Kaye,
Even though I have admired you and your reporting for some time, I was very disappointed by your “interview” with Diane Ravitch yesterday. Apparently, the point of the interview was not to elicit any of Dr. Ravitch’s views but rather to cross examine her. While you may have distrust and disdain for Dr. Ravitch, most educators find her to be the lone voice of reason in this politically charged education reform assault on public schools and public school teachers.

Whether or not you realize this, most teachers feel frustrated and frightened because the media and the politicians listen to those who have the financial backing like the Gates Foundation and the Walton Foundation and the Koch Brothers and ALEC, and Michelle Rhee has become one of their head cheerleaders. What a shame that the media will not listen to those who are in the trenches. Unfortunately, no one listens to teachers because how in the world could a simple minded teacher know much of anything?

Even though I retired from teaching a long time ago, I am saddened that the profession that I loved for so many years has turned into the whipping boy for the rich and powerful. I am frustrated that the media has never bothered to follow the money to see what is really behind this “reform” movement. I am saddened that the media has dropped the ball and not reported the real story of the heroic work being done by most teachers every day. Instead, anecdotal reports are made with no substantiation. What was the back story on the child whose paper you read and offered as evidence to indict teachers? Was he a special needs student? Was he an ELL student?

While I would assume that you were reading the script that your producers had put on the teleprompter, I wonder (since you are an Emmy winning reporter) if you might not want to revisit this topic in a more fair and balanced fashion? Why don’t you invite Michelle Rhee and Diane Ravitch to have an actual discussion about education? Now that would be a show worthy of your talent.