Welcome to the Forum Archive!

Years of conversation fill a ton of digital pages, and we've kept all of it accessible to browse or copy over. Whether you're looking for reveal articles for older champions, or the first time that Rammus rolled into an "OK" thread, or anything in between, you can find it here. When you're finished, check out the boards to join in the latest League of Legends discussions.

So, about that Karma leak...

As someone that's been waiting for the Karma rework since forever, I've gotta say that I didn't expect Karma to go through such a dramatic change. I sort of thought that her current black and white dress was going to be updated and be left at that. Don't get me wrong though, I think Karma's new look is positively gorgeous!

I just don't really want it to be her new default. It just doesn't... feel right. It shows much more skin than I'm used to Karma showing.

I'd rather have the "Traditional" skin be her new default look and her purple garb with the twin jade dragons be a new skin.

At this point, that's all I'm asking for, really. I have the feeling her "traditional skin" was actually her original rework, then for some reason someone decided to scrap that look entirely and the work they had already done would be released as "Vintage Karma". Even though it doesn't make any sense.

You know, Karma used to stand out in a good way among all the other champions. She looked like a respectable old woman among the gutter of all the general eyecandy for dues in the League. Why did she have to be degraded to be a part of the gutter? This is not a good change, not at all. Seriously, what is so hard in keeping to the spirit of the character when they were loved by a part of the community for the reason she stood out and keep her that way instead of degrading her to the common level of stuff you do? Everything she would have actually needed was a skill remake and a visual upgrade, not to made to an another **** 'n ass ""respectable"" and ""empowered"" woman. If you felt like making a skin of her old looks would be necessary, why make a complete rework at all?

Sometimes I really wish you poured some ice cold water on your design team and sent them back to school, this is the absolute opposite of good character development. You took something unique in your game out "in teh name of development".

They never listened to Karma players, what makes you think they're going to listen to you now?

All the skin ideas, the rework ideas, the suggestions, the threads, months and months of hardcore Karma players, beginners, even people who never played her, we all had lots of input. Input and opinions about everything, really, from the design to the concept to the gameplay. The only Rioter I remember kind of listening to fan suggestions was Shurelya, but after she left, Karma was put in a limbo, with Guinsoo supposedly working on her. That was more than a year ago.

During all that time, they could've listened to the players, they could've read the threads on the forum, the comments on twitter, reddit, even facebook, but no. Maybe they would've seen that no one ever really complained too much about her design, definitely not about her weapon of choice. The issues were mostly with her gameplay, her ineffectiveness as a support to ranged champions, the ambiguity of her role, but I've never heard anyone complain about her voice or her personality. Yes, maybe her walk animation or her monochrome theme were a turn-off for some people, but isn't that why we have 110 champions? You can't like them all.

She didn't seem "ready" for combat? Well, does Sona seem like the fighting type? She's just chilling floating around and playing her instrument most of the time, so what's wrong with Karma and her fans exactly? Her calm, collected way of showing superiority in the battlefield. She could've been the embodiement of SO MANY design themes that are actually missing in LoL at the moment. She was the strong, classy politician, but she also had a convincing Asian/zen thing going on, and the "feel" that she was a woman from other times. Almost none of those elements seem to be left in her now, she's just a mix of many themes that we can already find in other champions, Irelia, Akali, Syndra, LeBlanc, Soraka, etc.

As many people, me included, suggested over the months of silence, there were many opportunities Riot just wasted. Victorian themed skins? Carnival themed skins? Even a "horror" skin. Or something elegant, maybe steam-punkish? (It's also what many people have been asking for Orianna for months now, but Riot just seems to hate the idea). A Ionia inspired skin? (which I guess would've looked like her new base look. I just don't see why it had to replace the original).

I've always felt Karma had incredible potential to appeal to MANY different types of players in the game, but Riot just wasted all the opportunities and refused to listen to players. Which is pretty strange considering they take pride in being a company that listens to its fans. I just didn't see that in how they handled the Karma thing.

They never listened, but then again, I am from EUW (posting here on a smurf) and used to not even getting a red post in months, so same ol'. Since there seems to be some actual red activity in this thread and Morello mentioned so many times that he prefers constructive criticism I figured I would give him some, to give him an example on how the remake was expected to be made, as it would only be fair not not only hate on the fail remake but also kindly point out where it is different from what was hoped. I also know that this probably won't affect anything at all and that I can be lucky if a red reads my posts at all, but it at least gives me some closure which I need after the death of another of my beloved champions (Nidalee was the first to die, as her upper body bouncing up and down by 90 degrees every time I move made her pretty much unplayable for me )

They never listened, but then again, I am from EUW (posting here on a smurf) and used to not even getting a red post in months, so same ol'. Since there seems to be some actual red activity in this thread and Morello mentioned so many times that he prefers constructive criticism I figured I would give him some, to give him an example on how the remake was expected to be made, as it would only be fair not not only hate on the fail remake but also kindly point out where it is different from what was hoped. I also know that this probably won't affect anything at all and that I can be lucky if a red reads my posts at all, but it at least gives me some closure which I need after the death of another of my beloved champions (Nidalee was the first to die, as her upper body bouncing up and down by 90 degrees every time I move made her pretty much unplayable for me )

I understand (and by the way, I'm from EUW and on a smurf too) but at this point I don't think they even deserve constructive criticism anymore. They ignored all the criticism they had available under their own eyes already.

And their current stance of "Meh, too bad. It's too late now." just irritates me. It's too late because YOU didn't ask for our input AT ALL until it was too late. As a matter of fact, this doesn't even count as asking for input, it's just a way of saying "we did things our way, now feel free to vent away if it makes you feel better".

Yep, this is new Karma. Yep, this is a big change. We believe Karma needed a reimagining, and we are going to talk to you about why we feel thats the case. But before we dig into it, theres something you should probably know first  anyone who owns Karma before her relaunch will get this Traditional Karma skin for free:

This is important, because we know there are lots of fans (heh) of Karmas existing look, and we dont want to take that for granted.

We actually have been working on a dev diary that talks about our thought process behind Karmas relaunch, but since the cats out of the bag well share the story and art sections of the dev diary right here, right now. Well release the full dev diary, including details on her new kit, when shes ready for PBE (which is pretty soon). Without further ado, heres her new splash:

Grumpy Monkey will talk a little about her new visual design, and then Runaan will give you some insight into Karmas reimagined backstory.

EXPLAIN TO ME THIS INSTANT. WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING TO MY KARMA!?!? WHAT THE HELL IS THAT SINGLE TARGET SPELL DOING IN HER KIT!?

I will never forgive you if you ruin my Karma. If you overdo her remake I will get pissed. This is freaking ridiculous.

I agree that she needs a helping hand but holy **** do not take it as far as to change her kit completely. She's an AOE wave pusher as well as a utility mage. There's no place for a single target spell in her kit and this will completely destroy her as a champion.

Yeah, she might become stronger than she is now but she will be completely different and that will be horrible for me and many others who dearly love Karma as a champion.

I'm 100% sure that all Karma needs to work is to make her current W do damage to the target she casts it on. Together with this you might need to nerf the AP ratio on it by a bit, but that is literally all you need to do to make her work.

If you want to give her a proper ult, by all means do it. Just don't destroy her kit by removing her core spells and replacing them with completely new spells. That just isn't cool.

This is the first time I've actually been angry with you people at Riot. This is ridiculous and shouldn't happen.

You've thought about Karma rework for so long but there's absolutely no reason to spend so much time on her and then ruin her kit afterwards.

She was one of my first favorite champions and I still love to play her to this day, and I still manage to win on her consistently.

But this rework might completely kill her for me and if it does, I'm going to be pissed.

I've spent roughly 1000$ on this game on my EUW account and what do I get for it? One of my favorite champions destroyed. This is infuriating!

I think the reason everyone is so attached to her fans is because before that was probably one of the few things that really stood out, so all the focus went onto her fans themselves! Once they were removed, people feel as though she's no longer the same. But now she's full of character and we'll hopefully see her as super iconic as a whole.

Hey Guys, just to chime in on the fan conversation and to give some insight.
We got rid of the fans because they did not reflect who we wanted Karma to be going forward. The lore team really wanted to make Her the paragon of Ionia. The fans were not cutting it as a source of readable power in game either. So we iterated on the Ionian standard, the two swirling dragons. We played with the idea that She harnesses Her spiritual energy and uses the Two Ionian Jade Dragons as a conduit for her Mantra. After the particle team got hold of that idea, they made something that was much more impactful and holistic than the two fans. We feel it's a much stronger idea.