While it's certainly not outside the realm of possibilities, I find it unlikely that a moderator of a Catholic forum would have the same name as the birthname of one of Catholicism's most beloved saints (and certainly one I'm very devoted to). One would think that, working in an official capacity, one would sign such an official email in one's real name.

If that is her actual name, then I'm wrong and will admit it. It just seems a bit cutesy, that's all.

There's a reason I shy away from Catholic forums and it's because of Mickey Mouse stuff like this. I think all the refugees should just shake the dust off and go about your business on here, so to speak, but those folks over at CAF are really going about this wrong way, IMHO.

Yup, Therese Martin.

And I think the whole purpose of this thread is to facilitate shaking off the dust. Well, and to poke a little fun at CAF here and there, too, maybe.

Jeff

Logged

"Wrong is wrong even if everyone is doing it, and right is right even if nobody is doing it." Augustine of Hippo

The tag that appears under a banned member's name is placed there at the sole discretion of the CAF mod/admin staff."

Aside from the moral issues of her choice of showing a person with a false status one has to wonder a little about the legalities. Therese Martin is claiming that people who are not in fact members of her Forum are members. Is she able to lie in this way about non-members?

To put it into two syllable words:

Fr Ambrose is not a member of CAFTherese Martin is claiming that Fr Ambrose is a member and she is listing him on her Forum as such.

Some of us who are not CAF members, myself included, have asked her NOT to show us as members. One would think that she has an obligation to respond to our demands on this matter and not list us as members.

Her continuance is this falsehood has also led to some harrassment - I have been accused by CAF members of lying about being banned. I have been told that I am trying to make CAF look bad. This becomes stressful.

Allow me to read between the lines and answer as if I were a CAF moderator:

Dear Jeff,

Thank you for your correspondence. Many Roman and Eastern Catholics were converting to Holy Orthodoxy based on the truth and the strength of the Orthodox position. Furthermore, those Roman and Eastern Catholics who did not convert, were complaining bitterly because they could not gain an advantage in any of the debates. There was no choice but to ban everyone wholesale.

Peace and blessings,Mickey, psuedo-moderator

Mickey,

Before you left the Catholic Church, I don't remember this level of sarcasm or mockery, or (IMO) false implications emanating from your posts.

If you want to prove your point, start a new thread, and floor me with the Orthodox evidence that proves her as God's Church on earth. Otherwise, I am clueless as to this evidence on CAF that had many Eastern and Roman Catholics converting to Eastern Orthodoxy.

Before you left the Catholic Church, I don't remember this level of sarcasm or mockery, or (IMO) false implications emanating from your posts.

If you want to prove your point, start a new thread, and floor me with the Orthodox evidence that proves her as God's Church on earth. Otherwise, I am clueless as to this evidence on CAF that had many Eastern and Roman Catholics converting to Eastern Orthodoxy.

In Jesus Christ,

Hi Magic,

I'll let Mickey answer for himself, but I'd just say that I personally know of 2 people who came home to Holy Orthodoxy while on CAF--me, and Mickey. I would imagine that from their point of view that's 3 too many--and the 2 of us are just the ones I have personal knowledge of.

As for your challenge to Mickey, I think that if you search this site and do all the same research and questioning that he and I and many others have done with an open mind and open heart, you might just find that Orthodoxy is, as you say, God's church on earth.

Many blessings,Jeff

Logged

"Wrong is wrong even if everyone is doing it, and right is right even if nobody is doing it." Augustine of Hippo

Aside from the moral issues of her choice of showing a person with a false status one has to wonder a little about the legalities. Therese Martin is claiming that people who are not in fact members of her Forum are members. Is she able to lie in this way about non-members?

To put it into two syllable words:

Fr Ambrose is not a member of CAFTherese Martin is claiming that Fr Ambrose is a member and she is listing him on her Forum as such.

Some of us who are not CAF members, myself included, have asked her NOT to show us as members. One would think that she has an obligation to respond to our demands on this matter and not list us as members.

Her continuance is this falsehood has also led to some harrassment - I have been accused by CAF members of lying about being banned. I have been told that I am trying to make CAF look bad. This becomes stressful.

Bless Father,

Hi Fr. Ambrose,It probably wouldn't get you very far, but you might try emailing either Therese or one of the other boffins there, explaining that very situation. Other than that, I seriously doubt if anyone has any legal recourse with them. But what do I know?

They are what they are, and have proved themselves to be just that--unfortunately.

Frankly, I don't think they really care how much stress they have caused to you or anyone else. The nature of that particular beast.

I can only say that one day they, like the rest of us, will have to answer to God for their despicable actions. Lord have mercy.

In Christ,Jeff

Logged

"Wrong is wrong even if everyone is doing it, and right is right even if nobody is doing it." Augustine of Hippo

I can sympathize with you as a fellow bannee and I think that some of the CAF employees have acted, and are still acting, abominably. BUT don't allow it to effect you to the point of making you ill. The best way to deal with it is to summon up our spiritual reserves and pray for the people responsible. "Pray for those who deal with you despitefully" - good religious advice and good psychological advice and it will take the knot away from your stomach. So, all of us here who have been cast out of CAF -- let's form a chain of prayer for those who have dealt with us wrongly.

Fr Ambrose

I did that and then got a nervous tick in my right eye! Contemplation of Gethsemane and sleep has helped that though. You see I think its because I am not so sure they dealt with me wrongly as I contemplate forgiveness, reconciliation and the absolutism of the consequences of my comment that got me banned. Though I may have broke a rule I didn't recognize when I did it and I understand that sometimes there is no excuse for ignorance of the law, somehow I see their action as just as uncharitable as was my comment that broke the rule. Perhaps even more so because its a culpable decision where by mine was accidental. I cannot reconcile what those who I respected have done that feels so contrary to Christian mercy other than to unite my resolve with heaven in a prayer of Amen so be it! and Lord that I may see! Such absolutes I have a hard time with personally. Its as if being cast into a hell or purgatory on earth by fallible beings. The appeal is over and crying is of no use. Am I to believe if I fail to do my best all the time and make an in-advertant mistake God himself would act like this at my final judgement? Am I required to be perfect in this world to gain heaven? I am very confused by this action of CAF and the hypocrisy of it all. I have seen the pride in myself and realized how my upbringing has contributed but am I culpable of some sin? Is my lack of charity a sin? Just when I think I have put my finger on what I am to learn from this banning it starts to eat at me yet again. I have seen mention of dusting off my feet and I have done that before with others but how can you do that when its someone you love? Again the Garden comes to mind and I find no choice but to say Amen so be it!

Allow me to read between the lines and answer as if I were a CAF moderator:

Dear Jeff,

Thank you for your correspondence. Many Roman and Eastern Catholics were converting to Holy Orthodoxy based on the truth and the strength of the Orthodox position. Furthermore, those Roman and Eastern Catholics who did not convert, were complaining bitterly because they could not gain an advantage in any of the debates. There was no choice but to ban everyone wholesale.

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.A hasty quarrel kindles fire,and urgent strife sheds blood.If you blow on a spark, it will glow;if you spit on it, it will be put out; and both come out of your mouth

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.A hasty quarrel kindles fire,and urgent strife sheds blood.If you blow on a spark, it will glow;if you spit on it, it will be put out; and both come out of your mouth

As soon as I was banned, without knowing what sock-puppetry even was, and with no intent to deceive or circumvent, I tried re-registering using a different username and password. Bear in mind, that I didn't even know why I had been banned because the message I got said my account had been frozen at user's request. Not unreasonably, I believe, I thought that I was the user and I certainly never requested to have my account frozen. Well, almost immediately after I re-registered, that account was also frozen, the reason being "circumvention". Go figure, eh?

So, here I am, playing on a much nicer, cleaner island with far fewer man-eating sharks circling in the surf .

God bless,Jeff

They have the IP address of the computer you have used on your banned account. If you use a different computer and different names you can get on. The problem is that there is not much there now worth the effort.

I always liked Sherry Lewis the puppeteer and Lamb Chop her sock puppet..... She passed a few years ago...Rest in Peace...sniff

Logged

Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm

They have the IP address of the computer you have used on your banned account. If you use a different computer and different names you can get on. The problem is that there is not much there now worth the effort.

I always liked Sherry Lewis the puppeteer and Lamb Chop her sock puppet..... She passed a few years ago...Rest in Peace...sniff

You could always just use Tor http://www.torproject.org/ (or any other, even substantially less secure, proxy) that way you get a different anonymous IP each time you log on.

« Last Edit: November 27, 2007, 09:32:40 PM by greekischristian »

Logged

"The liberties of people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them." -- Patrick Henry

Allow me to read between the lines and answer as if I were a CAF moderator:

Dear Jeff,

Thank you for your correspondence. Many Roman and Eastern Catholics were converting to Holy Orthodoxy based on the truth and the strength of the Orthodox position. Furthermore, those Roman and Eastern Catholics who did not convert, were complaining bitterly because they could not gain an advantage in any of the debates. There was no choice but to ban everyone wholesale.

Peace and blessings,Mickey, psuedo-moderator

That's funny....

You know when this first happened I took the CAF staff at their word, that they wanted to promote discussion on Eastern Catholicism in particular. But, after seeing the way they have behaved over the past couple of weeks I'm starting to believe that you may not be far form the truth.

Given, all of us would have been angry and upset for a while but eventually everyone would have settled in at the NCR forum. But instead of letting that happen they started summarily banning people for at least in my case no reason that I can figure out.

Allow me to read between the lines and answer as if I were a CAF moderator:

Dear Jeff,

Thank you for your correspondence. Many Roman and Eastern Catholics were converting to Holy Orthodoxy based on the truth and the strength of the Orthodox position. Furthermore, those Roman and Eastern Catholics who did not convert, were complaining bitterly because they could not gain an advantage in any of the debates. There was no choice but to ban everyone wholesale.

As soon as I was banned, without knowing what sock-puppetry even was, and with no intent to deceive or circumvent, I tried re-registering using a different username and password. Bear in mind, that I didn't even know why I had been banned because the message I got said my account had been frozen at user's request. Not unreasonably, I believe, I thought that I was the user and I certainly never requested to have my account frozen. Well, almost immediately after I re-registered, that account was also frozen, the reason being "circumvention". Go figure, eh?

Jeff,

I didn't mean to imply that re-registration would fly if it were not done for purposes of sock-puppetry. Re-registration for purposes of circumventing a ban is a separate issue and, IIRC, is also the subject of a rule under the Banned Topic List there.

Many years,

Neil

Logged

"Not only is it unnecessary to adopt the customs of the Latin Rite to manifest one's Catholicism, it is an offense against the unity of the Church."

Dear Mickey,Being a Catholic Answers Forum, we cannot tolerate free and open discussion between Catholics and non-Catholics. No questions allowed, as they may threaten us theologically. Therefore, only answers of a Roman Catholic nature will be discussed. Any violation or perceived violation of this policy will result in immediate and permanent banning.

Before you left the Catholic Church, I don't remember this level of sarcasm or mockery, or (IMO) false implications emanating from your posts.

If you want to prove your point, start a new thread, and floor me with the Orthodox evidence that proves her as God's Church on earth. Otherwise, I am clueless as to this evidence on CAF that had many Eastern and Roman Catholics converting to Eastern Orthodoxy.

Dear MS,

Mockery is a harsh and accusatory word to use. Sarcasm? Hmmm? Surely you witnessed the wholesale banning of everyone Orthodox. My comment was posted tongue-in-cheek, but is it really that far from the truth? We were not born yesterday. There was a very intentional action to purge CA of the Orthodox "element".

Furthermore, if you were not floored with the wonderful treasury of Orthodox witness, patristic quotes, Scriptural references, canons, historical references, etc...then there is not much I am going to tell you. I would refer you to the archives, but it was purged also.

I have been Roman Catholic.I have been Eastern Catholic.But there is great joy to know that I have finally entered the loving embrace of the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church--the Orthodox Church.

Mockery is a harsh and accusatory word to use. Sarcasm? Hmmm? Surely you witnessed the wholesale banning of everyone Orthodox. My comment was posted tongue-in-cheek, but is it really that far from the truth? We were not born yesterday. There was a very intentional action to purge CA of the Orthodox "element".

You'll see it if you want to. Now that many posters are boasting of being banned, it is getting easier to see why it happened.

Quote

Furthermore, if you were not floored with the wonderful treasury of Orthodox witness, patristic quotes, Scriptural references, canons, historical references, etc...then there is not much I am going to tell you. I would refer you to the archives, but it was purged also.

But there should be. As far as I saw, 3-6 months back, all my investigations into Orthodox teaching and practice were met with responses that evaded the question, or started begrudging some practice or other of the Catholic Church. More often than not, responses were littered with derogatory comments towards Catholic saints and clergy.

Quote

I have been Roman Catholic.I have been Eastern Catholic.But there is great joy to know that I have finally entered the loving embrace of the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church--the Orthodox Church.

But there should be. As far as I saw, 3-6 months back, all my investigations into Orthodox teaching and practice were met with responses that evaded the question, or started begrudging some practice or other of the Catholic Church. More often than not, responses were littered with derogatory comments towards Catholic saints and clergy.

Interesting perspective. I saw no evasion. I saw direct and truthful responses.

How so? Because you do not agree with me? The absence of joy usually translates to a lack of charity and bitterness. Perhaps I should have been banned also? I will tell you something magicsilence: When I was in communion with Rome, I relentlessly attacked the Orthodox on CAF. At times I was uncharitable and disrespectful. I have asked forgiveness from my Orthodox brothers and sisters. I heard no complaints from the Roman Catholics about my "absence of joy" at this time. Through much prayer and discernment, the truth was able to permeate my soul and I was led by the Holy Spirit to the Holy Orthodox Church. Now I defend Her to the best of my ability and I am attacked by Roman Catholics as having "an absence of joy".

Nevertheless, if I have ever offended or attacked you in any of my posts, I ask for your forgiveness.

Pardon?Look Magicsilence, I don't give a toss what anyone believes or where their allegences lie. My best friend in the whole world is Jewish for heaven's sake! I don't care that you're Catholic. People are people no matter what their Creed. It would make no difference to me if the moderators and administrators of CAF were Zoroastrian or even Orthodox- I would still consider it an affront to human dignity that an archive of knowledge built over years should be just wiped out in a single stroke.So try as you may, you will never convince me of the "justness" of the stunt pulled by CAF in destroying an archive.

« Last Edit: November 28, 2007, 11:10:10 AM by ozgeorge »

Logged

If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.

Some of the answers that you judged to be evasive, in my opinion, were not; instead, they were often simply an answer that you did not want to hear, and did not agree with.

Apotheoun, your own position on this subject, is to me, a little confusing.

However, if I ask 'Why is the Orthodox position on 'x' like this?', I wouldn't normally expect an answer that follows the lines of 'Well, the Catholic Church's position on 'x' & 'y' is like this or that, so question solved'.

If the archive were open, I would happily delve in to bring back examples.

Interesting perspective. I saw no evasion. I saw direct and truthful responses.

And so we each justify our position.

Quote

How so? Because you do not agree with me? The absence of joy usually translates to a lack of charity and bitterness. Perhaps I should have been banned also? I will tell you something magicsilence: When I was in communion with Rome, I relentlessly attacked the Orthodox on CAF. At times I was uncharitable and disrespectful. I have asked forgiveness from my Orthodox brothers and sisters. I heard no complaints from the Roman Catholics about my "absence of joy" at this time.

If you heard none directly, then perhaps your zeal was not as ruthless as you imagine. I personally do not dialogue with anyone who shows a lack of discernment or honest zeal for the Truth, Catholic or Orthodox, because experience has shown me it has no effect.

Quote

Through much prayer and discernment, the truth was able to permeate my soul and I was led by the Holy Spirit to the Holy Orthodox Church. Now I defend Her to the best of my ability and I am attacked by Roman Catholics as having "an absence of joy".

Then please elaborate how your previous post was a defense of the Orthodox Church, and not a sarcastic dig at the CAF moderators. I am honestly hurt that you could post something like that, completely irrespective of your spiritual history.

Quote

Nevertheless, if I have ever offended or attacked you in any of my posts, I ask for your forgiveness.

Many years,Mickey

The only offense I perceived was a loss of charity, and it is not for me to forgive.

Before you left the Catholic Church, I don't remember this level of sarcasm or mockery, or (IMO) false implications emanating from your posts.

If you want to prove your point, start a new thread, and floor me with the Orthodox evidence that proves her as God's Church on earth. Otherwise, I am clueless as to this evidence on CAF that had many Eastern and Roman Catholics converting to Eastern Orthodoxy.

In Jesus Christ,

Work the term "LIBEL" into you next correspondence and I bet you get some action

Logged

Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm

Then please elaborate how your previous post was a defense of the Orthodox Church, and not a sarcastic dig at the CAF moderators. I am honestly hurt that you could post something like that, completely irrespective of your spiritual history.

Are you serious?

About 90% (or more) of the Orthodox posters were banned for no valid reason. Some of these posters were long time members with thousands of posts to their names. The word "banned" was not placed under many of their names to "protect their dignity"!!! The vast archive of posts was wiped out in the blink of an eye! The former moderator (Joe) is missing in action (fired, retired ??). Orthodoxy is a taboo subject in the Eastern Catholic forum. Orthodoxy has been deemed "non-Catholic".

If you care to continue to accuse people of having a lack of charity, perhaps you should think about these issues in your free time.

No. It was not a sarcastic dig at the CAF moderators. It was a legitimate evaluation based on their actions.

Pardon?Look Magicsilence, I don't give a toss what anyone believes or where their allegences lie.

I don't share the same indifference, but I understand your point.

Quote

My best friend in the whole world is Jewish for heaven's sake! I don't care that you're Catholic. People are people no matter what their Creed. It would make no difference to me if the moderators and administrators of CAF were Zoroastrian or even Orthodox- I would still consider it an affront to human dignity that an archive of knowledge built over years should be just wiped out in a single stroke.

Firstly, it has not been wiped out. For the time being, access has been restricted.

Secondly, there were many threads in that archive that served only to breed hatred, and lacked any real semblance of honest scholarship.

Thirdly, I was under the impression that it was moderator action surrounding bannings that was the issue at hand?

Quote

So try as you may, you will never convince me of the "justness" of the stunt pulled by CAF in destroying an archive.

About 90% (or more) of the Orthodox posters were banned for no valid reason. Some of these posters were long time members with thousands of posts to their names. The word "banned" was not placed under many of their names to "protect their dignity"!!! The vast archive of posts was wiped out in the blink of an eye! The former moderator (Joe) is missing in action (fired, retired ??). Orthodoxy is a taboo subject in the Eastern Catholic forum. Orthodoxy has been deemed "non-Catholic".

If you care to continue to accuse people of having a lack of charity, perhaps you should think about these issues in your free time.

No. It was not a sarcastic dig at the CAF moderators. It was a legitimate evaluation based on their actions.

Surely you are not that naive!?!

Mickey,

I am sorry I started this debate, for accusing you of having a lack of charity, or questioning your motives. I see I have fallen into the trap of triumphantly expressing my point with no thought to charity myself.

Firstly, it has not been wiped out. For the time being, access has been restricted.

From my conversations with the Mod - even she could not get access to that Archive !!

Logged

"Never let anyone try to tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern. The West was fully Orthodox for a thousand years; and her venerable liturgy is far older than any of her heresies."- St. John Maximovitch

You're onto something there. Bear in mind that the reverse situation also applies/applied. I haven't really noticed any real lack of charity in the discussions on the former EC board - bickering, almost familial in warmth, yes, at times, on both sides - but what you may have disliked in the posts of the Orthodox may have simply been a consequence of us being in the same situation you are in now, 'on the defensive'.

Also, the ethnic cultures of prevalently Orthodox countries, (mostly Slavic or Balkan or both), which tend to influence even Western converts, are very ... outspoken? I'm a Serb and everyone here speaks their mind all the time, especially about politics, religion and other public matters. People shout at each other in disagreement and remain close friends and loving family. Maybe this is the reason I've never noticed anything really uncharitable on CAF - this kind of discourse is mild compared to what I'm used to.

Quote

Firstly, it has not been wiped out. For the time being, access has been restricted.

I wish you were right. Take another look at the 'answer' given to a CAF member who inquired about them. They say the old threads are gone while they prune them for archive material to be used on the new Eastern Catholicism board - i.e. Orthodox thread and posts will be gone. Sigh.

God bless.

Logged

And when He knew for certain Only drowning men could see Him He said "All men will be sailors then Until the sea shall free them"