Atheists would love for everyone to believe that their motive for not believing is an intellectual one. Yes, the atheists ardently suppose that they are wise and the Christians, well, we’re the buckle-shoed buttheads. Yes, darling, the atheists would love all of us to suppose that they cannot believe because they are so astute and rational, and we theists, heck we’re toads . . . a veritable troop of abecedarian simpletons who believe in God and Christ simply because we’re straight goofy. I think the atheists believe in not believing, however, not because they’re intellectual little dandies but because they want to be autonomous, loose and randy.

As an atheist, I’ve always been careful about crying bigotry, because I’ve felt the freedom and even the necessity to criticize all religions equally. While atheism is clearly not a religion, (in the way bald is not a hair color, or celibacy is not a sexual position) ideas, including our own, must be open to question and most especially mockery and ridicule. Because humor is a method of getting to the truth and saying things which cannot be said any other way. As long as we stay in the realm of ideas, then we can freely attack the bad ones, with or without humor. But once we start with a direct attack on people’s character, then it becomes bigotry. Painting your opponents as sex-crazed and amoral libertines firmly crosses this line. More than anything else, it’s a sign of religious desperation. With all their best arguments refuted, they have to resort to tarring and feathering.

Aldous Huxley: “…the philosophy of meaninglessness was essentially an instrument of liberation . . . liberation from a certain system of morality. We objected to the morality because it interfered with our sexual freedom.”

Christopher Hitchens: “The divorce between the sexual life and fear . . . can now at last be attempted on the sole condition that we banish all religions from the discourse.”

Then, with a wave of the hand, he dismisses across the board any and all humanistic moralities, blithely smearing every atheist as the epitome of the irresponsible, amoral, and animalistic sexual libertine, (presumably just waiting to come and steal the virtue of every righteous daughter–or son for that matter).

They didn’t like the thought of being responsible and having to account for their lives in the afterlife. Such thoughts really screwed with getting their groove on, ya know what I’m sayin’?

They were the first metrosexuals. Yep, they figured that if they could just get the gods out of the way they could focus on selfishly milking this life for all it’s worth and then die without any eternal repercussions. They were living in a material world, and they were material girls. Pretty ballsy. Or stupid. But at least they were honest about their motivations.

In addition, ladies, Darwin didn’t lose his faith because he discovered natural selection; he dumped God because he couldn’t stomach the doctrine of eternal accountability and damnation. That’s what made him switch teams. I think that was about ten years after he had married his first cousin. Git-R-Done, Charlie!

Y’know, Karl Marx said religion is the “opiate of the masses.” I think the real poppy derivative is the black tar belief that tells you atheist lads and lasses that when you take the big dirt nap that’s it. Ah what peace. What a high. No God. No accountability. All our sins of commission and omission will never ever come up again. No pain. No penalty. No heaven. No hell. Imagine. Yeah, dude. Hold that hit. Let it out slowly. Ahhh. Feel better?

There’s your opium.

Giles categorically applies this condemnation to all atheists–simply because we have rejected his gods and guilt-based moral prescriptions. It’s a good thing we don’t live in times like pre-WWII, where the Nazis used similar propaganda to make Jews seem subhuman. (Not that I’m implying that he has the same political clout to do us harm, but his methods are every bit as bigoted and dehumanizing.)

A common technique used by propagandists was to liken the Japanese to animals like snakes and rats. But the most common animal used to portray the Japanese was the monkey. In several posters and editorial cartoons, the Japanese were drawn up as monkeys hanging from trees or lumbering around like big gorillas. The image of a subhuman primate was key to undercutting the humanity of the enemy. The enemy was less than human, thus much easier to kill.

Giles’ hit piece is right up this alley. We atheists are less than human, dangerous and not to be trusted, because we reject his gods. He opines “They appear to be humming the Marquis de Sade’s tune more than Sagan’s.” While he doesn’t explicitly call atheists “animals,” he does call us animalistic (by implication of sexual libertinism) in every way possible. The title of his editorial is “Atheism: Intellectual Revolt or Pelvic Rebellion.” While I personally have no problem either with de Sade’s literature, or with acknowledging my own animal nature, in the conservative religious world Giles inhabits, this is a terrible slur. We have firmly established the important intellectual beachhead of innate human morality, which has been devastating to the exclusivity of religious morality claims. But by falsely equating our morality arguments with advocacy of amoral and uncontrolled sexuality and the shirking of all responsibilities, Giles mines the same vein of prejudice creationists use when they tell their children atheists claim “their grandmother was a monkey.”

This is cynical last-ditch attack politics. It’s an attempt to separate humanity from our vitally important animal origins and animal nature. Ironically, it is the most religious (who vehemently deny their nature) who seem to get caught in a sex scandal about every five minutes. Giles fails to see the irony and failure of religion to control these impulses, and the failure of his own scriptural ideals. Yet these cartoon distortions of hedonistic atheism persist, diverting attention from the very same problems and hypocrisies of religion, and attempting once again to remove the discussion from where the zealots are weakest: the realm of ideas.

As an atheist, I find this post frankly embarrassing. The quotes from that article, though atrocious, dehumanizes atheists nowhere, and certainly not at the level of Nazi propaganda. It just makes fun of us. That’s a big difference.

@Zach, we were called morally corrupt and unaccountable, as a group and because of our philosophy. We were told that our atheism is an opiate for our amorality and sexual deviance. We were told that we have staged a “moral revolt.” Again–as a group. So therefore as an atheist, you are included in that definition. If you don’t define that as bigotry, what would be?

Nazi propaganda against the Jews began with the idea that–as a group–Jews were sexually and financally corrupt and without morals. You see that parallel? If you don’t I question either your reasoning abilities or your atheism.

@Tommy, that’s funny. I think everyone wants to be “loose and randy” at first and we quickly learn there’s a time and a place and what our limits are. You obviously found yours.

Clearly. As you said, it’s as silly as “evolution teaches that your grand-parents were monkeys”. Every time something like this is written, clear thinking people are given the opportunity to see who is winning the battle of ideas. Most people actually KNOW an atheist or two and know that they don’t fit the description, rendering the slur meaningless. In Nazi Germany, most citizens didn’t actually know a Jew and most Americans didn’t know a person of Japanese decent, so the propaganda effort had a better chance of succeeding.

Sure, the Nazis questioned the Jews moral character, etc., but that’s not what made the particularly horrific. What made them horrific was a further step - not just lobbing (groundless) criticisms at the Jews, but actually denying their humanity. That’s a huge difference. That’s what the posters of Jews-as-animals (or Japanese-as-animals) are trying to accomplish.

But the person you cite doesn’t go that far. He’s being obnoxious, absurd and slanderous, and should be called out on that. But he’s not questioning our humanity. Have some perspective.

Don’t bring up Godwin’s Law when the comparison is fair. Sean did not accuse Giles of killing 6 million atheists, did he? He did not overreact, and, in fact, he in even put the comparison on the context of what The Good Guys (TM) did, to tie it all together.

It’s a good idea to call foul when people compare things to the Nazis willi-nilly (particularly since the Nazis were many people who did a lot of things and therefore it is always possible, if not useful, to find a parallel between them and anyone), but let’s not get silly about it, o.k.?

Good essay Blacksun. I’m pretty shocked by such an evil-minded attack on atheists - seems clear he doesn’t know, or realize he knows, any actual atheists.

What I always find interesting is these arguments/attacks on atheists that don’t address the underlying truth. They just find fault with our morality or the apparent bleakness of atheism. Even if we were all out diddling sheep as a result of atheism, does that prove materialism and naturalism are false or that their god exists? Of course not, just that they find the alternative personally distasteful.

Slut, thanks. Yes it all comes down to how threatened they feel, and how incapable they are of addressing real philosophical truth. So they move to the O’Reilly-esque smears which play well in the fickle and short-attention-span arena of the media.

I wonder what the response from Townhall would be if the cartoon depicted a Jew, with $100 bills in a bong? There is a name for people who imply that money is the narcotic of the Jews: an anti-Semite. Apparently thereâ€™s nothing wrong with implying that moral corruption is the narcotic of every atheist. Surely proves that the Learned Protocols of the Elders of Atheism are in place, doesnâ€™t it?

Can somebody tell me that this anti-atheist bigotry, almost a religion in its own right today, is not identical in every respect to traditional anti-Semitic propaganda and pogroms that â€œmoralâ€ Christians of the recent past so relished?

[...] Atheists are often accused of being moral nihilists. It’s one of leading smear tactics believers and bigots use against us. Russian Chief Rabbi Berel Lazar, claims “militant atheism” has been responsible for fascism and genocide. Dinesh D’Souza and Doug Giles (previous article) tout “pelvic atheism” as libertinism. This false dichotomy of either scriptural morality or amorality is getting damn tiresome. It’s teetering on the edge of being an out-and-out slur. There’s been enough written and said about moral naturalism and objectivism that educated people can’t exactly claim ignorance. So for D’Souza especially, charges of “pelvic atheism” represent a disingenuous and calculated bigotry. [...]

We have firmly established the important intellectual beachhead of innate human morality, which has been devastating to the exclusivity of religious morality claims.

This is the most important statement in the article. The religious seem to take it as a given that there is no morality without religion, and there is no religion without morality. I completely disagree with that. Religion and morality are orthogonal. I believe there is a basic, fundamental concept of morality innate in all human beings, and it exists regardless of religion or non-religion. I am agnostic, yet I believe in a firm moral code which is probably not that different from the moral code of any religion.

Now the question is: why do we have morality at all? From an evolutionary or biological standpoint, what is the purpose of having an innate set of moral directives? Evolution does not seem to have given any other animal a concept of morality… For example, pack animals abandon their sick and weak. This trait clearly aids in survival and proliferation of the species, yet it’s totally against our innate human moral code. What, then, is the origin and purpose of morality?

ïƒ˜ You complain when Christians aren’t allowed to practice their religion in other countries. Yet you go berserk, for example, when someone tries to set up a Mosque in your neighbourhood, complaining about the Moslem call to prayer from minarets. Yet we all have to tolerate your Church Bells, Christmas Carol singing in the streets. Also door to door and on-street proselytizing, trying to convert already happy people from their current religion, or the even happier non-religious and atheists to join your Church. We donâ€™t need your self-opinionated, patronising, religious education on myths, or want to catch your diseased, archaic delusions. Why canâ€™t you leave us all alone and mind your own business? We are happy enough without listening to your drivel, your fear and guilt mongering and downright lies!
ïƒ˜ Your face turns purple when you hear of the “atrocities” attributed to Allah. But you don’t even flinch when hearing about how your â€˜lovingâ€™ God, Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in Exodus and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in Joshua including women, children, and trees! The Old Testament is liberally littered with such â€˜(UN) Godlyâ€™ barbarism. You can keep all your cruel God(s), Judaism, Christianity and Islam.
ïƒ˜ You call Jesus Christ the â€˜Prince of Peaceâ€™, ignoring where He commands people to take up arms. Luke 22:36-37
ïƒ˜ You donâ€™t object when current Political or Religious leaders say â€˜God told themâ€™ to wage war against Muslim Nations. Sounds just like the â€˜holy Warsâ€™ of the past. They too were about taking people, land and possessions, under the pretext of converting the ignorant infidel. Itâ€™s about oil this time. At least your Christian Slavery is mostly outlawed now, except for you, a paying slave to your Church! Nowadays people who say that â€˜God told themâ€™ to commit a murder or other heinous crime, are usually locked up in an insane asylum for their own protection and the publicâ€™s safety too. Why then should todayâ€™s Religious or Political Leaders be exempted and treated any differently?
ïƒ˜ You call your Bible â€˜Holyâ€™ yet it contains filth, sexism, oppression, slavery, mayhem, murder, wars and division of peoples. Whatâ€™s holy about that? This negative immoral message far out-weighs the so called â€˜Good Newsâ€™.
ïƒ˜ You believe that Religion in general and Christianity in particular, is the only way for people to behave morally. Kept under control by an all-seeing, vengeful God. 2,000 years of Christianity and the world is still cruel & selfish! Study your Bible and see why. Also, most atheists are moral without the need for a God. The Golden Rule of, behaving to others as we would like to be treated by them, predates both Judaism and Christianity by thousands of years.
ïƒ˜ You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by religions of others, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of your Christian God(s). Whether they be Atheist or of another â€˜Faithâ€™ or Religion.
ïƒ˜ You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans and animals, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women. But you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated (read - raped a married woman) a â€˜virginâ€™ - Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god, who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky. Which are actually all ideas copied from other, even older, religions (maybe to gain some credibility from them)! Your Christian holy days have mostly borrowed pagan dates and even make use of some of their pagan festivals and ceremonies!
ïƒ˜ You laugh at polytheistic (many Gods) religions, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit [Ghost]). The first verse of Hebrew Bible says GODS (Elohim) created heaven and Earth.
ïƒ˜ You consider a single prayer that was ‘answered’ during your life time as a high success rate. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% failure rate of unanswered prayers was simply the will of God. Mathematical Probability would provide the same odds and success/failure rate!
ïƒ˜ You constantly challenge the work of respected scientists who established the age of the Earth as millions if not billions of years old through sound scientific, replicable practices, but have no problem believing the word of ancient Bronze Age Jewish tribesman and later clever, curious clerics, who think it’s only numerous Biblical generations old. The 7 day creation of Genesis, then the fictional Adam, Moses through to Jesus, plus the 2,000 years since Christ.
ïƒ˜ You feel insulted and “dehumanized” when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms out of necessity for survival, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that humans were created straight from dirt.
ïƒ˜ You believe followers of every other (or even no) religion will spend an eternity in a Hell of suffering for not accepting Jesus, but still consider your religion the most just, tolerant, loving and understanding.
ïƒ˜ You believe you must be born again, because of the sins of Adam & Eve. Too crazy & immoral to merit response.
ïƒ˜ You believe ancient, old debunked myths, like the Devil and Witchcraft are still relevant today and will therefore avoid Harry Potter movies amongst other things, just to be safe. The Devil is in the mind of those who dwell on it, YOU!
ïƒ˜ You feel that while modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in “tongues” may be all the evidence you need to “prove” Christianity.
ïƒ˜ You think it quite reasonable that a man (Noah) could horde 2 or 7 of every animal on the planet, put them all in a boat, and have enough food to keep them alive for 40 days, Let alone cleaning the muck out.
ïƒ˜ You are arrogant and vain enough to think the Earth and its (human) inhabitants are the centre of and the only (human) life in the entire universe, despite it being statistically impossible. God is only interested in you.
ïƒ˜ You dismiss the scientifically proven explanation of any event because you don’t understand it, or it conflicts with Biblical myths, but are happy to just say “God did it” without any tangible proof.
ïƒ˜ You think AIDS is Gods punishment for homosexuality, which you see as a reversible choice instead of genetic.
ïƒ˜ You think earthquakes, floods and other of natureâ€™s catastrophes are Godâ€™s punishing a disobedient people.
ïƒ˜ You think a warm fluffy feeling is proof of God. The self-same feeling one can get from Love, friends, beautiful music, art and Natures scenes. Of course you believe Nature is Godâ€™s handiwork, so round we go in circles again.
ïƒ˜ You deplore homosexuality, but will vigorously defend your own Pastor if and when he is caught playing with choirboys. Or he will be quietly moved on to another Parish (In the hopes he will reform)!?
ïƒ˜ You know less than your atheist and agnostic friends do about the Bible, Christianity, and the history of your Churches - but still call yourself a Christian. If you are ever allowed to read the whole Bible with an intelligent, rational, critical eye, you will be in for a lot of shocks. Your Pastor will not be able to explain the violence and inconsistencies!
ïƒ˜ You and your Church think anyone with an enquiring, rational, open mind has been influenced by your Devil.
ïƒ˜ Your church is one of thousands of denominations or sects. If Christianities message is so pure and simple, why so many variable beliefs and Bibles within Christianity? So which Church and which of many Bibles holds the â€˜Truthâ€™?
ïƒ˜ You think your Church is the only one practicing â€˜trueâ€™ Christianity, whilst all the others are headed for hell. Protestants hate Catholics, Baptists hate Presbyterians, and Jehovahâ€™s Witnesses hate you all. And that is before you begin hating other religions - the â€˜deluded Muslimsâ€™, Buddhists, Hindus, Taoists etc. Not to mention the Atheists!
ïƒ˜ Your Preacher encourages you not to rationalise, think or doubt, but accept everything he or the Bible says as being true. Thatâ€™s called keeping you in ignorance. We would still be living in the dark ages if we had all done that. Along with the inquisition, its theft of property and its torture and murder at the stake for the millions who dared to question the priesthood. Both Roman Catholic and the Protestant Churches are equally guilty of such base cruelty.
ïƒ˜ You share common points of view with the same types of people who thought the Earth was flat and the centre of the Universe. It took science to prove otherwise, but you must still accept the myths and fairy stories with faith, or incur the wrath of your Church and/or your enraged, jealous, possessive, merciless (Loving!?) God, Jehovah.
ïƒ˜ You find it difficult or even impossible to accept ways of science and its conclusions only because they conflict with the Bible. A Bible full of errors and contradictions, whichever of the many â€˜Holeyâ€™ Bibles you choose to pick up?
ïƒ˜ You believe that the Bible is the word of God or at least inspired by Him, incapable of error. It is a motley collection from different writers, written after the event, recopied over the centuries, with mistakes. Purposely doctored to fit current beliefs of the day, bits or whole books left out, bits or whole books put in. Yet even now you claim the Bible is still inerrant!? I sincerely hope it does contain mistakes, because I couldnâ€™t worship such a God as Jehovah as he is portrayed in your â€˜Holyâ€™ Bible. Who incidentally is every bit as evil (if not more so) as your â€˜so calledâ€™ Devil.

i think these kinds of christians are just funny they really are scared they are scared because with everything science is finding it makes a whole lot more sence than a so called god did it but yet they sit there and still not taking anything not even thinking about it for a second they are ignorant and thats it wait not all of them just most of them

Graham, awesome points !! Made similar ones in other area’s here in BSJ. That’s my stand to being what I call a Redefined Atheist. Believing in God is a danger to our mental & emotional development !! Whether He exists or not is irrelavent. God is not a healthy rolemodel for Human kind. Ethical, moral & humane phrases along w/ babaric, horrendous ones can together be found in most organised religion’s written materials & teachings. So it’s not good, right or healthy to our well being & successful development to believe in a God !!! I think that’s why animals actually r the smarter group of us, they haven’t done alot of the stupid stuff humans have !!! Animals never invented something that can vaperise life on this planet !! Let alone kill each other because of belief & opinion. When humans get off their high horse of superiority, we will realise we don’t need all this electrical consumption & waste & concern for our souls in the after life. But can live in harmony w/ nature instead. It’s this Judeo God & others like it, that says we can’t walk around any more free & naked, wking hard & celebrating life together peacefully. Cannibals ate other humans because of supertious beliefs, not for survival. So life is yet to be seen w/ out a God & spiritual belief’s. We have to get reality here & now straightened out before considering something spiritually existing. “Sirituality” has failed. Love is not a God thing, it’s just Love, it stands on it’s own. Love is not God is not Love ! We r not focused. Maybe that’s what this epidemic called ADD/ADHD is all about. Too much, so much distracting us ! And not a focus on the real important stuff - Human Life

Also Graham - Loved ur ending, Absolutly so so True & this is something I’m focused on in my debate & battle to not having God verified as a garenteed reality on our $ bill, Pledge of Allegiance & the so called Holy Bible used in court rooms ! ! ! This falls in misleading advertising, doesn’t it ? It is not a National Agreed opinion, therefore it needs to go ! Enough is enough, the Constitution of these United States has been violated for to long in this area ! Children deserve better !!! Our future thru our children deserve it !!! Because if we’re wrong about reincarnation, I sure as hech don’t want to go thru a God reality again !!! ; ) Wink
Hech I might come back a dog or cat forced to pray by the kids in the home ! I’ll bark like mad to warn the family of it’s dangers, then they’ll probably get rid of me because they’ll think I’m possessd ! Or maybe not, they’ll pity me & have me exorcised ! Smiles Everyone !

Not a debate, just an observation. The one thing that seems a universal thread is that Atheists detest any blanket condemnations, yet that is what I see when you discuss Christianity. You are doing what you seem to hate being done to you. I believe in Yahweh, but I am not your typical 'Christian'. In fact, I have my own issues with being identified with mainstream 'Christianity, but that is another topic. I will say straight up that the intellectual prowess I've observed here is impressive and I do not measure up, sad to say. But I ask you to stand by your most basic of principles-Do not condemn all for the folly of a few. The loudest do not necessarily speak for everyone. The same point was made by BlackSun when he said that most people know an Atheist and, in knowing them, find they are not as the propaganda paints them (paraphrased). That holds true for all of us.

It's not Christianity I condemn. It's Christian dominionism, or the attempts to enshrine scriptural principles and rules into law. I only condemn Christians if the shoe fits. But Christians cannot use the "no true Scotsman" fallacy to distance themselves from people like Fred Phelps. Phelps is hateful, but he actually does quote the Bible. Deal with the problems in the Bible if you wish to avoid that criticism. I'd be very happy to see a mass Christian disavowal of big portions of scripture. That would be a first step toward a kinder, gentler, more modern faith.

I'm also not a fan of literalism, where people talk about the literal truth of miracles. It's an insult to anyone who understands physical laws to pretend some mythic figure could break them, and we should aspire to go to heaven so we can live forever and break them, too.

I would like to see all believers come together and meet each other as human beings. It does not matter what myths you believe. They're all myths. We have much more in common than that which separates us.

We are never going to disavow the ‘problem’ areas of the bible, and you are never going to silence us. If telling people about Jesus is made illegal, we will still do it. There is nothing you can do to shut us up. Why not repent and disavow your rebellion against your creator, instead?

I believe there is going to be a day in which you gain the upper hand and my brothers and sisters and I will face punishment for our faith. It won’t make us silent. And even then I would give my life if necessary to stop any harm from coming to you or your family.

As far as Mr. Phelps is concerned, he has an unhappy surprise in store for him, I think.

The way u r ralking Matt is the very way Christ thru LOVE taught future Jews NOT to be yet they were worse with their religious wars & continue to be. The Bible was made by intelictual Greeks. Thats why the bk seems to be such a marvelous piece of wk. But what realy makes it what it is is how the brain response to it with all the marvelous phenomenas or hellucinations one experiences followinf it & experimenting with it. The Catholics has Alot to do with this bk's turn out aswell. So because it has become an addiction to u all Bible loves due to the extasy u experience following it u become what u all become. At the end it's ur brain fooling & mistreating u. That God is a character ur brain has developed that u follow. A D.I.D that u all call the Holy Spirit or what ever it is that one's religion refers to to follow without question - a ver dangerous thing in human behavior! There is no Love in ur comment our's is filled with rightous anger to be free to live our lives in happiness. Ur God killed 1st not Cain, reread ur Bible. Ur God is a tyrant..

When you throw around the word bigotry, you take away it's strength and meaning. The guy doesn't like Atheism. Honestly, deal with it Christians get crapped on (literally and figuratively) in our society every day. Buck up bub.

The corollary to anti-atheist bigotry is pretending religious belief is tied to moral uprightness. This just gives believers an undeserved pass. Watching some priest or pastor get caught in a sex scandal has become an almost daily routine. The point is, morality is about conduct, not belief and we shouldn't pre judge anyone's conduct.

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