"During the 1920s the Communists Zionists (at that point the bulk) wanted to form a unity with the Palestinian people as part of the common proletariat rising up against capitalists as common laborers… That was rebuffed. During the late 1920s to early 1930s there was a movement of creating a common future by that point the Palestinians had become pan-Arab nationalists so that attempt was rebuffed".

Let's have the truth about why those rebuffs then, and the continuing rejection of Israeli versions of peace. From no other than Jabotinsky before those rebuffs:

"Thus we conclude that we cannot promise anything to the Arabs of the Land of Israel or the Arab countries. Their voluntary agreement is out of the question. Hence those who hold that an agreement with the natives is an essential condition for Zionism can now say “no” and depart from Zionism. Zionist colonization, even the most restricted, must either be terminated or carried out in defiance of the will of the native population.

To imagine that they will voluntarily consent to the realisation of Zionism, in return for the moral and material conveniences which the Jewish colonist brings with him, is a childish notion, which has at bottom a kind of contempt for the Arab people".

"Zionist colonization, even the most restricted, must either be terminated or carried out in defiance of the will of the native population. This colonization can, therefore, continue and develop only under the protection of a force independent of the local population – an iron wall which the native population cannot break through. This is, in toto, our policy towards the Arabs".

Britain until 1948, the US for many decades until now, and for who knows how much longer.

"The Truth according to Fromkin. It’s unintentionally funny–in what universe has any people ever voluntarily granted a chunk of their own homeland to foreign immigrants to create their own state?"

None better to tell the real truth about that than Jabotinsky, writing this in 1923:

"My readers have a general idea of the history of colonisation in other countries. I suggest that they consider all the precedents with which they are acquainted, and see whether there is one solitary instance of any colonisation being carried on with the consent of the native population. There is no such precedent.

The native populations, civilised or uncivilised, have always stubbornly resisted the colonists, irrespective of whether they were civilised or savage.

Every native population, civilised or not, regards its lands as its national home, of which it is the sole master, and it wants to retain that mastery always; it will refuse to admit not only new masters but, even new partners or collaborators.

Every native population in the world resists colonists as long as it has the slightest hope of being able to rid itself of the danger of being colonised.

That is what the Arabs in Palestine are doing, and what they will persist in doing as long as there remains a solitary spark of hope that they will be able to prevent the transformation of 'Palestine' into the 'Land of Israel'." [from The Iron Wall"]

"Israel and its oppressive actions and policies are tarnishing the moral standing of Judaism and attaching, perhaps unfairly, the responsibility for that oppression to all Jews".

Add to this what LeaNder said: "the artificially created Jewish Zionist identity, to start with. Its basic premise is: United as Zionists against the world out there we must stand, Jewish dissenters are self-haters. Since Zionism (and apartness?) is the essence of Judaism".

"Food for thought" indeed.

Judaism was, effectively, hijacked, as epitomised in the Jabotinsky claim:

"either Zionism is moral and just or it is immoral and unjust. We hold that Zionism is moral and just. There is no other morality".

For many of them, because they have been seduced by JohnHagee and similar others.

"For a time is coming when people will no longer listen to sound and wholesome teaching. They will follow their own desires and will look for teachers who will tell them whatever their itching ears want to hear".
2 Timothy 4:3, New Testament

Christians, repent for your sins, hold fast to Israel, and be silent on the Palestinian question. Silence on Palestinians is demanded, otherwise the accusation is that Christians have returned to their previously abandoned anti-Semitism".

Insidiously clever and disgusting. We Christians are to salve our guilt of one failure and injustice by becoming guilty of promoting another failure and injustice [to put both mildly]. And so many have fallen for this ploy, hook, line, and sinker, and for so long.

"The Christian enablement list is extended through the various movements of Christian Zionism. Taken together and with their influence on the politics of the enabling political entities, Christian enablement of Israel and disablement of Palestine may be the single greatest contributing factor to the dire situation that the Palestinians face today".

It is a chilling indictment of Christian betrayal of the one they claim to follow. But there are plenty of us who have seen through the lies and the manipulation. We have taken a strong stand against their golden calf, and for truth and integrity and justice.

As confirmed and spelled out by Jabotinsky in 1923 in his The Iron Wall:

"My readers have a general idea of the history of colonisation in other countries. I suggest that they consider all the precedents with which they are acquainted, and see whether there is one solitary instance of any colonisation being carried on with the consent of the native population. There is no such precedent.

The native populations, civilised or uncivilised, have always stubbornly resisted the colonists, irrespective of whether they were civilised or savage. Every native population, civilised or not, regards its lands as its national home, of which it is the sole master, and it wants to retain that mastery always; it will refuse to admit not only new masters but, even new partners or collaborators.

To imagine, as our Arabophiles do, that they will voluntarily consent to the realisation of Zionism, in return for the moral and material conveniences which the Jewish colonist brings with him, is a childish notion... Every native population in the world resists colonists as long as it has the slightest hope of being able to rid itself of the danger of being colonised. That is what the Arabs in Palestine are doing, and what they will persist in doing as long as there remains a solitary spark of hope that they will be able to prevent the transformation of "Palestine" into the "Land of Israel."

It does not matter at all which phraseology we employ in explaining our colonising aims, Herzl's or Sir Herbert Samuel's. Colonisation carries its own explanation, the only possible explanation, unalterable and as clear as daylight to every ordinary Jew and every ordinary Arab. Colonisation can have only one aim, and Palestine Arabs cannot accept this aim. It lies in the very nature of things, and in this particular regard nature cannot be changed.

Zionist colonisation must either stop, or else proceed regardless of the native population. Which means that it can proceed and develop only under the protection of a power that is independent of the native population – behind an iron wall, which the native population cannot breach.

"Even G-d is love? But who said these things and why do we just take it for granted? The source for G-d being love and for marriages being based on love rather than lust is Christianity. Its source is not the Hebrew Bible but The New Testament".

"At the same time, said the LORD, will I be the G-d of all the families of Israel, and they shall be my people. Thus said the LORD, The people which were left of the sword found grace in the wilderness; even Israel, when I went to cause him to rest.

The LORD has appeared of old to me, saying, Yes, I have loved you with an everlasting love: therefore with loving kindness have I drawn you".
Jeremiah 31:1-3

"In this spirit the document requests the international community to stand by the Palestinian people who have faced oppression, displacement, suffering and clear apartheid for more than six decades. The suffering continues while the international community silently looks on at the occupying State, Israel.

Our word is a cry of hope, with love, prayer and faith in God. We address it first of all to ourselves and then to all the churches and Christians in the world, asking them to stand against injustice and apartheid, urging them to work for a just peace in our region, calling on them to revisit theologies that justify crimes perpetrated against our people and the dispossession of the land.

1.1 “They say: 'Peace, peace' when there is no peace” (Jer. 6:14). These days, everyone is speaking about peace in the Middle East and the peace process. So far, however, these are simply words; the reality is one of Israeli occupation of Palestinian territories, deprivation of our freedom and all that results from this situation:

1.1.1 The separation wall erected on Palestinian territory, a large part of which has been confiscated for this purpose, has turned our towns and villages into prisons, separating them from one another, making them dispersed and divided cantons. Gaza, especially after the cruel war Israel launched against it during December 2008 and January 2009, continues to live in inhuman conditions, under permanent blockade and cut off from the other Palestinian territories .
1.1.2 Israeli settlements ravage our land in the name of God and in the name of force, controlling our natural resources, including water and agricultural land, thus depriving hundreds of thousands of Palestinians, and constituting an obstacle to any political solution.
1.1.3 Reality is the daily humiliation to which we are subjected at the military checkpoints, as we make our way to jobs, schools or hospitals.
1.1.4 Reality is the separation between members of the same family, making family life impossible for thousands of Palestinians, especially where one of the spouses does not have an Israeli identity card.
1.1.5 Religious liberty is severely restricted; the freedom of access to the holy places is denied under the pretext of security. Jerusalem and its holy places are out of bounds for many Christians and Muslims from the West Bank and the Gaza strip. Even Jerusalemites face restrictions during the religious feasts. Some of our Arab clergy are regularly barred from entering Jerusalem .
1.1.6 Refugees are also part of our reality. Most of them are still living in camps under difficult circumstances. They have been waiting for their right of return, generation after generation. What will be their fate?
1.1.7 And the prisoners? The thousands of prisoners languishing in Israeli prisons are part of our reality. The Israelis move heaven and earth to gain the release of one prisoner, and those thousands of Palestinian prisoners, when will they have their freedom?
1.1.8 Jerusalem is the heart of our reality. It is, at the same time, symbol of peace and sign of conflict. While the separation wall divides Palestinian neighbourhoods, Jerusalem continues to be emptied of its Palestinian citizens, Christians and Muslims. Their identity cards are confiscated, which means the loss of their right to reside in Jerusalem. Their homes are demolished or expropriated. Jerusalem, city of reconciliation, has become a city of discrimination and exclusion, a source of struggle rather than peace.

1.2 Also part of this reality is the Israeli disregard of international law and international resolutions, as well as the paralysis of the Arab world and the international community in the face of this contempt. Human rights are violated and despite the various reports of local and international human rights' organizations, the injustice continues.

1.2.1 Palestinians within the State of Israel, who have also suffered a historical injustice, although they are citizens and have the rights and obligations of citizenship, still suffer from discriminatory policies. They too are waiting to enjoy full rights and equality like all other citizens in the state.
1.3 Emigration is another element in our reality. The absence of any vision or spark of hope for peace and freedom pushes young people, both Muslim and Christian, to emigrate. Thus the land is deprived of its most important and richest resource – educated youth. The shrinking number of Christians, particularly in Palestine, is one of the dangerous consequences, both of this conflict, and of the local and international paralysis and failure to find a comprehensive solution to the problem.
1.4 In the face of this reality, Israel justifies its actions as self-defence, including occupation, collective punishment and all other forms of reprisals against the Palestinians. In our opinion, this vision is a reversal of reality. Yes, there is Palestinian resistance to the occupation. However, if there were no occupation, there would be no resistance, no fear and no insecurity. This is our understanding of the situation. Therefore, we call on the Israelis to end the occupation. Then they will see a new world in which there is no fear, no threat but rather security, justice and peace".

"But the thing was displeasing in the sight of Samuel when they said, "Give us a king to judge us." And Samuel prayed to the LORD. The LORD said to Samuel, "Listen to the voice of the people in regard to all that they say to you, for they have not rejected you, but they have rejected Me from being king over them.

Like all the deeds which they have done since the day that I brought them up from Egypt even to this day-- in that they have forsaken Me and served other gods-- so they are doing to you also.…"

"Meanwhile Judaism is utterly lost." Yes, it has been for a long time. Hijacked by Zionism's atheistic ideology decades ago, and its leaders seduced by Zionism's presence and power. Israel has become the golden calf. And it is a repeat of 1 Samuel 8:8.

"their blanket, knee-jerk support for Israel right or wrong. The fundies I know never think about what’s been happening to the Palestinians–what would Jesus do?"

Exactly, Citizen. It's a total abuse of scripture, and an oxymoron. Israel is their idol, their golden calf. Which makes them blind people that try to serve two masters, and means they have hearts of stone.

Jesus said: "So if the light you think you have is actually darkness, how deep that darkness is! ...".

"Everyone deals falsely. They have healed the brokenness of My people superficially, Saying, 'Peace, peace,' But there is no peace. "Were they ashamed because of the abomination they have done? They were not even ashamed at all; They did not even know how to blush".

vigilante n. someone who takes the law into his/her own hands by trying and/or punishing another person without any legal authority. In the 1800s groups of vigilantes dispensed "frontier justice" by holding trials of accused horse-thieves, rustlers and shooters, and then promptly hanging the accused if "convicted." [thefreedictionary]

You were looking at a "fighting back" scenario. I was looking at ultimate justice.

Maybe what you're talking about is "natural justice". Meaning, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. Indeed.

What a depressing array of comments. What an evil and cruel world has been created and/or colluded with by "the land of the free". Shared values. Hypocrisy, narcissism, exceptionalism, and power at any cost for any purpose. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

I think Castellio makes a fair point. Many of us here on Mondoweiss could probably say we came to be “seeing the situation more clearly” and thus became “more sensitive to the historical moment” about Israel/Palestine, than we were in our past. I sure can. And that we are therefore "a better person for the change".

That they deserve their own nation. That that land is theirs by right, by history, and by God. That they will get and keep it all, by any means whatsoever, by whatever it takes. That there is no other morality.

"We don’t accept the legitimacy of continued settlement activity. We remain hopeful that both sides will look at the important opportunity we have here to build trust and confidence and move back to the negotiating table".

That says it all. Hypocrisy and contradiction - doublespeak.

Talking softly to the one out of line and a big stick shown to the affected other.

Germans had their empire, taken after WW1. They had another for a short time under Hitler.

Sounds like it could be said that Israel in the 60s was a kind of continuance of empire under the cover of reparations. But perhaps that is being too harsh. At least I doubt the German government ever thought of it that way, and certainly Israel was not interested in playing a subservient role to anyone.

What I was stating I realise is rarely if ever borne out in practical terms. My purpose was to express the desirable and the just in ethical terms.

The principle Churchill alluded to in his famous quote about governance, is what applies to jurisprudence. We all know about the fact that, with the system of justice we have, too many of the guilty go free or get a smack on the hand, and too many of the innocent are convicted and seen as guilty and have to do time or even worse.

Natural justice on its own can often be dangerous because that is what people are capable of misusing in serious ways, and legal justice as carried out has imperfect results because we are imperfect people.

We rightly choose legal justice, therefore. It is clearly the better of the two in practice. But the principle and ethics of natural justice is what most people long for. We just don't know how to make it work in practice.

"acquitting a guilty defendant does serve justice if there is insufficient evidence to meet the legal standard of guilt. As I said before, that bar is properly set quite high. To artificially convict a guilty defendant when sufficient evidence of guilt is not available would undermine justice".

That's talking about legality justice, "the legal standard of guilt". What most people who have a heart and a thirst for justice are looking for is natural justice. They care about the people the guilty party has damaged and want them to have closure.

By natural justice I mean actual justice in which someone who is literally guilty because they have actually done what they are accused of, pays what is a just price and is seen to do so.

To do otherwise "would undermine justice", so that acquitting a guilty defendant would be to serve injustice.

"Regrettably, my permission was not sought to plant a tree/s in my or the name of a South African Ambassador on usurped land, the rightful land of the Palestinians and Bedouins. I reserve the right to the usage of my name with or without my permission.

I have supported the struggle against Apartheid South Africa and now I cannot be a proponent of what I have witnessed in Israel, and that is, a replication of Apartheid!

The "Certificate" awarded to me by Mr. Rafael Barak, the Director General of the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs with the backing of the Jewish National Fund, is nothing less than an offence to my dignity and integrity. I was not a party to, and never will be, to the planting of "18 trees", in my "honour", on expropriated and stolen land."

What else can we expect from such people, those who live by the axiom, "there is no other morality" than Zionism.

"But it’s a negotiation and you need people on the other side who represent their people and can ensure an end to the conflict."

There's only one way to end the conflict. It is spelled out clearly and simply by US Jew Mark Braverman.

If you can actually listen carefully to him, hophmi, and remain in your present mindset, and that is representative of most Jews in and out of Israel, then Mark will be proved right, there will be no end.

This is to correct and flesh out my 6:57 pm post. It is important to get the details of the exchange Mark had with the Pastor. Here is the relevant transcript:

"So I gave my talk, and I talked about how- my experience, about how shocked and horrified I was, and how I felt it was very important to work for justice in Israel/Palestine because if we didn't have justice there would never be peace. And that the Jewish people really needed to take a good hard look in the mirror and say, 'You know what, yes, we've suffered, yes we've been victims, but yes we can also do wrong and we need to fix ourselves. It's as simple as that'. And I said, 'I think people need to confront Jews about this'.

Afterwards the Pastor came up to me, and said, 'You know, I really agree with what you are saying, and I'm with you 100%. However, I have one issue, which is that we need to be very sensitive to Jews when we talk about this'.

So I said to him, 'What do you mean by that?' He said, 'Look, I work with interfaith
groups, and I've been part of an interfaith group with Imams and Rabbis for 20 years, and we talk about all kinds of things, but we don't talk about this'.

And, I looked at him...I said to him, 'Pastor, you need to do something else with your Christian guilt'. I said, 'The Rabbis who don't wanna talk about Israel and don't want to question Israel's actions, are not friends of Israel. And they are not friends of the Jewish people.

And when Christians collude with that and go along with that, they're not being friends of the Jewish people, and this is not what Jesus Christ would want you to do'.

That was a moment of truth for me. I said to myself, 'I don't know where that came from, but it's what I'm supposed to be doing'."

"So I returned to the United States, not knowing what I was going to do with this experience and with the feelings I was having. And a very dramatic thing happened:

The Jewish community that I had grown up in didn't want to hear about it - I was accused of being anti-Semitic, of being a self-hating Jew, of opening the door to the next Holocaust - you weren't supposed to talk about this, it was not ok.

And frankly, what do you do, when your Jewish daughter-in-law or son-in-law tells you you can't talk about it? Well, what you do is, you start to talk about it".

"they either have no understanding or a very racist (Jews first, others nowhere) ideology. Saddening."

They understand very well the "Jews first, others nowhere" ideology. It's called Zionism, about which Jabotinsky said, "There is no other morality". That's why they have "no understanding" of anyone else.

"I’am Palestinian and I learned so much from his books to this day my views on the conflict are shaped by what I read in his books years ago.

The facts are “The Holocaust Industry” and “Image and Reality of the Israel -Palestine Conflict” are incredibly informative and ground breaking books that should be available in every library, bookstore and if I had my way, part of college curriculum."

That says volumes about his sagacity and his legacy. He and his books are now part of history.

"Maybe less talk of the zionist entity and some talk about Israel evolving into a truly inclusionist state based on equality".

How is that achieved without talking about the Zionist entity? The inclusionist state you propose must be what replaces the Zionist entity, which is now one state based on apartheid, exclusivism, and inequality.

You surely are more than well aware that "a truly inclusionist state based on equality" means not only the end of the Zionist entity, but the end of the ideology of Zionism being applied. That is, an end to apartheid, exclusivism, and inequality in Israel/Palestine.

"Finkelstein enjoyed the support of the great Holocaust scholar Raul Hilberg, and earned the enmity, even the hatred of Alan Dershowitz. That’s a very impressive track record". One that will live on long after Dershowitz and his ilk have been seen as the dregs they are and then forgotten.

"It is becoming increasingly problematic however to talk about our suffering and persecution during the Holocaust without acknowledging our culpability in the ongoing oppression of the Palestinian people".

"increasingly problematic"? Surely it has been just as problematic from day one of Zionism in action.

"The core values of dignity, respect for all, and speaking out against injustice that many Jews hold dear, are being corroded by Zionism".

"being corroded"? No, "have been corroded". This has been the case for 100 years due to the nature of Zionism and its priorities, and its gaining of the allegiance of most. To what was so simply and clearly put by Jabotinsky, "There is no other morality".

"meaning it gives you the choice to believe in what you want, but basically you cannot be Jewish and accept Jesus".

The Christian scripture, The New Testament, likewise give a choice to believe in what you want, but basically you cannot be a Christian and reject Jesus.

"if according to Christianity it was OK to reject Jesus, why did Christianity for the last 2000 years to do everything it can up to expelling and killing to make Jews accept Jesus by force".

Because it was not Christianity doing that [if it did], but Christendom.

Christianity is believers who follow Christian scripture, whereas Christendom is those who in practice rejected and reject, and violated and violate, what their own scripture spells out very clearly in several ways, to do what they sometimes did..

1. Which of those two do any people tend naturally to adopt - which did most Israelites adopt?

2. It is very helpful, because the alternative is what we see around the world today and yesterday - violence and strife, hard hearts and arrogance.

3. Indeed He does. "that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect". Matthew 5:45-48.

They already have, in what they have done to avoid being cursed. The Kairos "Moment of Truth" word from Palestinian Christians has fallen on mostly deaf ears.

The curse has been misunderstood and misapplied. The blessing and curse was originally given to Abram before there were Jews or an Israel. The New Testament applies it to Christians, the New Covenant people as the descendants of Abraham by faith, not by lineage.

In that sense Jesus Himself applies the blessing and curse to how His people, not Jews or Israelites, are treated, see Matthew 25:31-46.

What's amazing about that? Israelis in power have not just wanted to, they have broken international law as a matter of course for decades. What would be amazing would be if he, or similar, showed respect for international law and didn't want to break it.

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