Hindu Apologetics

Friday, April 22, 2011theyuha catholicism and hinduism Linga statue worship age of hinduism

Catholicism and Hinduism Apologetics

I grew up in Lima, Ohio in the United States in a Catholic home. The church we went to was considered kind of liberal by some older people. Later in life I did question the new changes in the Catholic Church, in some ways my family was sort of conservative. I was really shocked to move to Wisconsin and go to a church there and find out there was a whole different Mass that had been around for hundreds of years. In Lima we had been tought that the New Mass was the original Mass just translated to English. I was suprised to find there was not much in common between the 2 liturgies. They even celebrate feast days, days of saints, and other feasts on different days. They have 2 different calenders. The older one seemed obviously so much more meaningful and historic. The new one seemed watered down and more like non- Catholic Churches. The devotion to things like the Blessed Sacrament and the Mother of God seemed more meaningful in the older rendition of Catholicism. I feel the Modern Church has de-emphasized important spiritual ways of liturgy and even lied about it in an indirect way. The more modern Priests tought us that the modern English Canon is simply a translation of the original Mass as given by Jesus Christ.(that the old and new are identical except the latin language) they also tought us that we are to obay them and leave older practices behind. Until I came to Wisconsin I didn't realize there were in a sence 2 religions with the same name. I learned the Tridentine Mass which is the original Mass of the Council of Trent going back around 500 years and I even served the mass at the alter. serving the Older Mass is much more involved than the English Canon. In fact there are 3 yes three liturgies in the Latin rite of the Catholic Church. There is the(1.) Tridentine Mass,(2.) the Novus ordo,(3.) and the English Canon . The English Canon is the Mass you observe in English since about 1973.Yes most Catholics and even many priests do not know that there are 3 Masses plus more in other rites! The" English canon" actually has 3 options for cannons. The canon of the Mass is the unchangeable part of the mass--or rather it used to be until about 1973. the Novus Ordo is similar to the tridentine Mass but has some Vatican 2 changes in it and ther are changes to the canon but there is one canon yet. Part of the Novus ordo is in Latin. If you want to see a rare example of this Mass go to St John Cantius on Carpenter Street in Chicago Illinoise. it is off Milwaukee Avenue near North avenue and is a very beautiful traditional style Catholic Church. The Novus ordo was in use from 1963 to maybe 1973. The Novus Ordo has been at St John Cantius at 11:00 am, they have the English canon at 8:00am and the Tridentine at Noon(Sunday). Make sure you have a pre 1962 missal to follow the tridentine Mass because it is all in Latin.(They have Novus ordo and English canon Missals there) There is only one place I have heard the Tridentine Mass in english and it does not appear like the English canon even a bit. This small church is on 23rd avenue in Necedah Wisconsin. The church is called Santa Maria Rosa Mystica, mass is at 10am on sunday and 8am on weekdays(all masses are tridentine, some are in English) The priest's name is Father Stanley Monaghan, the liturgy is very faithful to the spirit of the tridentine mass and is very devoutly done. Their Patriarch (Patriarch Athenasius) is in the Russian orthodox line and canonically is a valid Mass.(Fr. Stan is actually a Bishop there) The clergy at this small church fears being forced to give communion in the hand so they are afraid of being under the Bishop of Lacrosse. Since about 1970 the Catholic Church has apparently supressed the old Mass, the more time went by the more they supressed it. When I was a child we were never tought there was another whole religion that seems to have been swept under the rug. They tought us that the New English canon Mass is the Mass Christ used. I have heard priests in the Chicago suburbs say from the pulpit that the old and new Masses are the same except the latin language. I would say this is a total lie but they may actually not know any better. Most people have never seen an old missal- i challenge you to find one and get one of the new leaflet missals used today and compare the english side of the old missal to the current Mass. there is no comparison, many prayers are totally missing. I felt lied to.

Hinduism

Since the time I could read we were tought in secular school, home or the media or even church that Hindus or other non christians worship the devil without knowing. I cant blame this on any one of these. it seems to be in encyclopedias too. we were also tought that Hindus worship many Gods as well as phallic images. Phallic images are sexual or in the shape of sex organs. As a result of this teaching I felt that only the Catholic Church can do the job of salvation, that other religions were condidered inferior at best and that God did not send them to hell because of His mercy only. I just assumed the church knew what was true and I did not pay much attention to it and I avoided contact with those people even though I was very attracted to them.

Since then I have taken the subways and busses around Chicago and ended up in Indiatown on Devon avenue. I have also seen China town, Vietnam-town, Laotian areas, been to many festivasls and had many kinds of food-- some that I liked very much and only a little that wasnt as good. when I went to India-town I saw the beautiful Indian movie posters and went to the festivals and finally got a camera and took some pictures. they invited me to more events and even put me on stage in front of thousands of people to take pictures of their moviestars and singers from India. They always respected my Catholicism and never talked to me about religion. I even was in private homes to photograph a wedding, the only thing they asked is to do is remove my shoes. The people seemed devout and very desciplined and sincere and the intertainment was clean and very spiritual in content. It is also very uplifting and beautiful.

None of the things I was tought about other Asian religions here in America was true. the people in India and other nations do not worship the way I was tought. I have since then seen catholic apologetic websites that still say these false statements. Church-goers do believe in these false ideas. The fact that the Catholic Church is trying to convert Indian Hindus indicates that they do officially believe that Hindus worship many Gods and worship phallic images. So if the church or rather churches teach that Hindus worship many false gods and all of these other things---what if the Hindus do not practice or believe this way?

I was in for a big suprise. I got Hindu text books from hindu writers. I met a Hindu Guru. I saw the indian community practice here in Wisconsin and in Illinoise. I have visited Hindu websites to do research. I also visited Hindu temples.

First of all they do NOT practice the way Christians describe them. I will describe below several points where there is a contradiction.

1. Do Hindus worship phallic symbols? No.

If you go into any Hindu temple you will find a Shiva-Lingha, later I will add a picture of one if i can legally obtain one--no photography is allowed in temples. See spiritual videos page (page 5) for videos showing Linga use. The Brittish and Christians call it a penis. The brittish even got it added as a word in the Hindi language as meaning penis. the word lingha comes from sanskrit, it never meant penis before the Brittish invaded India. The sanskrit meaning is " without form, long drum like" or simply " without form" referring to God as being formless or without a body. the sanskrit word for penis is shishna, not lingha. Hindus in the temple do not see this object as a phallic symbol and they do not use it as such. When we die our soul is called Lingha sharira or body without form or subtle body. Atma lingha is the sign of the soul. The Lingha is a symbol of the one formless God, yes they believe in one God and it is in the Hindu scriptures very clearly. The Lingha represents the pituitary gland rather than the penis. There is another structure in the temple that does symbolize the penis. It is called the Dwaja Stamba some times referred to as the flag pole. Camphor is burned here representing the burning off of the ego. Hindus are asked to control sexual urges and stay married to one person. Many in the hindu priesthood or Brahmacharis are required to be celebate. Shiva Lingham Youtube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=manCTUuIaOQ Shorter video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gll_F6yly5U&feature=related ( Hit left arrow on top of page after video is viewed to come back to this page) Also to enter the sanctuary of the temple everyone must dress modestly or they will not be able to enter, you are to dress in good clothes and no pants are allowed on women. I have seen people get asked to (politely) put on a wrap, these people are always Americans who dont know any better. The lingha is very much like the Cross in a Christian Church, it is given attention in a similar way. How would you feel if someone outside your religion called the Cross a penis, or worshipping a penis!? Also seeThe Complete Idiots Guide to Hinduism page 165--Lingha stands for "God beyond form, pure consciousness itself" it is discussed in the Purana scriptures. Even if all of the books in the west say it is a phallic symbol the hindus who go to temple do not worship it as such and they never did and there is no scripture in Hinduism that indicates it as such. I wouldnt be suprised if some Indians may believe the lie but once you get deep into Hinduism there is no basis for it. The Brittish and Christians repeated it over and over for 400 years and its even in encyclopedias but the gurus and hindu books and scriptures do not agree at all. This is the first example of a contradiction of how Christians describe Hinduism as opposed to how real Hindus practice. By the way this practice goes back before Judaism and Hindu scripture is older than Judaism and the artifacts have been found all over the Asian continent. Basically it is a worship of the one true God in the form of formlessness. God can take human form such as Jesus Christ but God does not have to be in a body to be God.

2. Do Hindus worship more than one God? No. Christians say only by Christs name can one be saved. Who is Jehovah, Who is Jahweh, What about God the Father? Arent they also God? are you not saved by Jahweh if you call on Him? I quoted some scriptures in the first page of my blog, they are very clear that there is only ONE GOD. Remember India is much bigger than Israel and also older so there are more names for God. Just as there are many names for God in Judaism and Christianity there are many names for god in Hinduism. some names are attributes of God and some have special uses or are used in geographical areas. In Hinduism there are also many saints, and hindus recognize that there are saints in other parts of the world as well. There are also angels or something similar. Hinduism teaches that God appears when people fall away from Gods teachings. God can be male or female and appear in many forms. God is always active in mankind's life and has communicated and tought the truth as soon as mankind achieved the intelligence to understand it. Mankind has been on earth 10s of thousands of years and God has been apart of his life.God is far older than 3500 year history of Judaism. The first thing God teaches is that there is one God for everyone. Hindus teach that all nations worship one God, we are not to worship our ancestors or material things.

Kena Upanisad

"Who is not possible to see with our eyes, but who, has endowed us with eyes to see, he we know , is God. He alone is the One we worship, none else"

Bhagavad-Gita 4:7-8

"Whenever and wherever there is a decline in religious practice, o descendent of Bharata, and a predominant rise of irreligion-at that time I descend Myself to deliver the pius and to annihilate the miscreants, as well as to reestablish the principals of religion, I advent Myself millenium after millenium"

RIGVEDA 1:164:46 ( oldest Hindu scripture)

"Sages call one God by many names"

Rigveda 6:45:16

"There is only one God, worship him"

Rigveda 8:8:1

"Do not worship any one beside Him"

Explanation of "many Gods and demigods":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEVRHwn2XKU

Differences between Hindu concept of God and other religions:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91JAN88NpSw&feature=related This is really well done but I do disagree on what they say about the Moslem Kaab stone being phallic. It shows how errors pervade everything.

Hinduism versus Islam or western religion. New religion seperates God from earth (Criticism):

Part 1.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNZqDG1PoFc&feature=related

Part 2. Hinduism is not pantheistic!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlAHKr0FS1Y&NR=1

3. Do Hindus worship stones or statues? I have met a lot of people who have various faiths and I have never seen anyone who worshipped a stone or piece of wood. Catholics are accused of this by Moslems and protestants. In fact both Hindus and catholics are taxed extra in Pakistan for being Hindus and Catholics because they are considered idolaters. Tell me. If you call your mother on the phone, are you talking to the phone or your mother?To Protestants and Moslems, Catholics and Hindus are talking to the phone. Catholics say this of Hindus, (that they talk to a phone) but hindus are not allowed to say this about Catholics because they are required to respect other faiths. In both religions God instructed people to use material objects to aid in communication and understanding of God. In Hinduism statues are thrown out when damaged or broken- they are a tool in the worship of God. God can pervade these items but there is only one God. If you are Catholic remember that Hindus use statues very similarly as how you do, their images are more complex though, there is symbolism in the images that you do not understand. Yes they look bizarre but once you learn what it means you are astonished at the deep spiritual meaning. Christians need to remember the Golden Rule, Catholics do not like being called idolators when you are not so. The Hindus are doing the same thing with their statues as you do but they have been at it for much longer--- so keep using your statues and please respect Hindus while they use theirs. If you do not use statues that is fine, worship God in the formless form and you will do just as well.

4. Is Hinduism not as old as Judaism? For hundreds of years the Brittish claimed the Hindu faith was brouight into India by a group called the Aryans. They stressed that the stories in Hindu and Vedic scripture are just stories or myths. Some have said this of the Old Testament in Christianity. Jericho and other cities have been found and we know the sea parted based on scientific and archeological findings sometimes by unbelievers. In the Vedas a river called the Swaraswati river is mentioned and described a lot and many events are described there as well as a city called Dwarka where Lord Krishna was. The Brittish and missionaries say or rather said no such place exists. The Vedas also describe ice before hand and a flood afterwards.

In the 1990s the Swaraswati was found by satelite. it is simply dried up and has been dried up for thousands of years. it is right where it is described in the scriptures and the cities and battle sites are found now as well by archeologists.The sites mentioned in scripture along the river have also been and are being now found in places agreeing with scriptures. No evidence can be found for the Aryan invasion. The skeletons do not date to the period that the Arian theory indicates and indeed they are from several different time periods later in time. the City of Dwarka has been found in the ocean off the west side of India just as described in scripture. The date of the water rise coincides with the melting of the great ice cap over Europe and America. When this ice melted the coasts were flooded and some inland areas were also flooded for a time. The Swaraswati river flow was changed by movements in the earths crust and changes in weather around 4000 years ago. The river has been gone for about 4000 years which is about how old Judaism is at most. The writings or scripture is from back when the Swaraswati river was fully flowing and also when Dwarka was on dry land. Acording to geologists there was an ice age 10000 years ago and when the ice melted it flooded many areas including here in Wisconsin where I live. The bluffs where i live were islands and there was 60' to 80' (feet) of water over where I live. Native American Indian stories back this up. At the same time coasts were flooded and many people were displaced or drowned. this was not a flood that you could just move a mile away and escape, most people lived on the low lying coasts and near rivers so unless they were warned they would end up in open water.

Now we realize the Hindu scriptures are describing places that were covered by water and Dwarka is still under water to this day. This places the origin of the vedas and other Hindu scripture way before the date of 1500BC that the Brittish assigned to it. it is more like 5000 minimum and maybe close to 10000 years old predating any other scripture on Earth. According to Indian "myth" or scripture someone by the name of Manu was warned that a flood was coming. Manu was in Dwarka, they re-settled in an area higher up away from the coast in India. The city is still there, but I do not remember the name of the city. the city does date to the time verifying the event in scripture. Vishnu purana,"On the same day that Krishna departed from the Earth the powerful dark-bodied Kali age descended. The oceans rose and sebmerged the whole of Dwarka." On May 19, 2001 Indias science and technology minister Murli Manohar Joshi announced the finding of the ruines of Dwarka. ( See Wikipedia) Remember these events happened over 4000 years ago and the British say this same scripture was brought in by Arians from outside of India yet it describes land forms in India that no longer exist. ( Or rather do exist but are covered by water or sand) it is just recently that the places were found so before 10 years ago it was easy to call it a myth with no basis. Other land forms and places have also been found from scripture but I do not know enough about them to comment, but just as biblical myths have been proven true Hindu myths have been proven by scientists- some of who do not care about or believe in god or Hinduism or Judaism. There are some Youtubes that deal with this subject on a much more professional basis than I do, I am not a scientist so maybe from here i should refer readers to these sites.There are pictures online of the Swaraswati river path or basin, just as in the scripture it was very wide, the path is wide. This is a subject more research can be done on and more discoveries will arrive. Dwarka video (by a non Hindu) was on TV Dwarka found: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KkDMBhrAD4&feature=related (Click back arrow to come back to this blog.) Image of Swaraswati river by satelite: http://youtube.com/watch?v=VlO9kBpB1uU&feature=related

5. Was Lord Krishna a sex fiend with 1000+ wives? Obviously we cannot find archeology for or against this but in Catholicism Christ has the whole church as His bride. Does this mean Christ was sexual toward the church? Obviously not! There are references like this in the Bible but no one intreprets them that sex is involved or incouraged. This question was brought up to me by a Roman Catholic and it is written about in Catholic apologetics websites. There was a war in India, this is the war mentioned in the bagravitam Gita. Arjuna and Krishna won but the enemy kings wives were like 1000 women( they may not have been wives to one King). They would have lived in utter shame being they were on the losing side. The only way to give them a decent life without shame and poverty was to marry them thus giving them a new status. Yes krishna had 1000 wives but he married them out of saving them from a life of shame. There is nothing in the bagravitam that would indicate that it is ok to indulge in sex in such a way, in fact Vedic scripture is more like Roman catholicism in its sexual norms and some may say Hindus are more controlled sexually than we are in the West or Europe. It is likely that lord Krishna let these women live out their lives in peace as opposed to being cast out of the land which would have been expected. Krishna's Bagrivatim authored by Krishna would not allow sex for the sake of pleasure, Lord krishna would not break His own teachings. It is likely they lived lives more like Catholic Nuns working on their spiritual lives and following the teachings and precepts outlined in the Bhagravitam by Lord Krishna. As in the Catholic church marriage is used as a comparison that in Catholicism is not taken literally. The Book of the Bible called Song of Songs is full of erotic visualizations of God in poetic form, but we do not judge Catholics or Jews as promoting promiscuity or immorality.

I do want to mention the Rasa de Lila. This is the dance of the Lord with the women. First of all it is just a dance and not a Western style dance and there is no sex. In the story Lord Krishna dances with hundreds of women but all think He is dancing with them alone. We know this is impossible but there is an important message for modern times. The meaning of this story is that all the different religions think God only appears to them exclusively. The women thought they were the only one with Krishna but all were with him at the same time but did not know it. God loves all of us as though we are the only one. Because of human nature God has manifested all over the world in every country and every region but each area thinks they are the only ones who God revealed Himself to. As a result of this error in thinking one religion seeks to convert or even invade another thinking that they do not have God. We do not know it but all nations have some form of God and if you really examine it they all worship one God but call God by different names. Every one wants to see theselves or their nation is favored by the Lord. The error is that we limit God by thinking that he is only with our group or nation and is absent everywhere else or that He is more with us than others. Hindus are discouraged from thinking this way. This error incourages an us versus them attitude where we must be better because God favores us. Nations that practice this thinking tend to invade other nations often violently. India does not invade other nations or try to convert others. The problems in the Middle East are due to one group thinking God is with them more than another. God does not need us to spread the truths about God, these truths are self evident and can be found in the same way a mathmaticak answer can be found. Just as 2+2=4 God's truths do not change, even if all writings are lost we will re-discover them and God will come again in person to fill in what we need. Perhaps modern man doesnt trust that God can manage His own world without them!

Commentary on the Roman Catholic Church and non-Christian religions:

Before vatican 2 the official Catholic Church tought that" it does not look upon members of non-Catholic religions with respect. the church does not respect the workings of the Devil." Before 1965 the attitude was rather severe toward other faiths even other christian religions. The Vatican 2 declaration basically reversed these statements on october 28, 1965. I cannot rewrite the whole statement here but Catholics no longer believe Hindus worship the Devil. The official website of the Vatican where this document is found is www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decl_19651028_nostra-aetate_en.html

CIVILIZATION MAY HAVE STARTED IN INDIA

People have been in India for 60,000 years. The gene pool proves that India is where man migrated from to the rest of the world. There are parts from The Story Of India that was on public TV back in 2009 in these videos. It is in 4 parts.

Hindu mantras are not based on blind faith, there is a scientific basis to the sounds. Each character in the Hindu alphabet has a spiritual value and mantras are made from these. Gurus can give people mantras specific to what people need because everyone is different, so different people get different mantras. They are asked not to reveal these mantras because it could reveal things about them to others that should not be revealed. Hindu mantras are in the original sanskrit that rishis wrote them in or spoke them in. Your mantra is specific to you and you should not suggest it to another person to use. Modern science verifies the ancient truths of mantras; the following video is about the Gayatri mantra which is a mantra for all devotees to Hinduism: