ant - does Jamie Sale fit your bill? She had major issues with her 2Axel... but by SLC she nailed it all...

I can't recall Jamie Sale's problems with the double axel. But given that they didn't skate together for very long i'm not sure that she would be much a of example. The other thing is that to truly show that someone has learnt to master their nerves i would expect a number of examples of them skating without those nerves so a one off great performance wouldn't really fit the bill for me.

As for training mental strength, it can be done. I've seen this in sports like tennis where a good player will see a sports psychologist to deal with nerves that arise during Grand Slam events. Ivan Lendl was a player who was very good but had to work on his nerves before finally winning the big events.

Again i think tennis is very different to skating where you have to be perfect from start to finish and small mistakes cost you. In tennis mistakes are not ideal but you have plenty of time to put things right if you do make a mistake, and people never play with no unforced errors.

Not really. Her double axel is poor, and the way she telegraphs her jumps is atrocious. I think she has also been marked for flutzing.

Her speed and the height of her jumps are, however, divine.

Not to pick on Caro, but she has been known to have bad air positions on her jumps, not centered (tilted) and this typically leads to some sloppy landings where she two foots it, or loses her balance and/or puts her hand down. She does this at every competition I have ever seen her in - but sometimes judges from a certain geographic area seem to "miss it." She has some great qualities but it feels like she is trying to bring some type of Euro post-modernism (the type SNL likes to mock ) to her programs. I admire her for bringing something different even if I rarely find it attractive. For me, she is almost the "kitchen break" skater - but actually I usually watch her to see her scores - which sometimes seem suspiciously over inflated to me..
Aside from her lack of consistency I recognize she is a talented skater.
About Frank Carroll - was that just a rumor or is it confirmed?
I have no doubt Frank could improve aspects of Caro's presentation (for my taste atleast) but don't see how much else he or anyone can do to fix a few of her recurring problems. She has been skating too long to suddenly undergo a transformation. But when she is on she can skate with the best.
Just some thoughts and wishing Caro good luck for next season. Despite my opinions I think she has the abilty to make the Olympic podium but as mentioned previously she has a very huge "IF" factor.

Not really. Her double axel is poor, and the way she telegraphs her jumps is atrocious. I think she has also been marked for flutzing.

Her speed and the height of her jumps are, however, divine.

She is far from being a chronic flutzer. She's one of the few that actually has a true lutz and flip. And obviously you are nitpicking here. I said "just about everything"--which means there are, of course, a few minor flaws. Other than the telegraphing, when Kostner IS on, I can't think of any other lady currently competing who has the same level of quality on both their edge and toe jumps, save maybe Arakawa in the past.

Look who's nitpicking - I never said she was. And I'll reserve judgement on whether or not she has a true lutz, since people more knowledgeable than me have commented that the edge on her lutz entry can be uncertain. And telegraphing may not be a big flaw to you, but it sure is to me; I find it terribly distracting.

And Shizuka lips, so I wouldn't say she has the best set of triples ever. That honour belongs to Miki, in my book. A close second is Midori; the leg wrap may seem to disqualify her, but everything else was so close to perfection that it almost doesn't matter.

Look who's nitpicking - I never said she was. And I'll reserve judgement on whether or not she has a true lutz, since people more knowledgeable than me have commented that the edge on her lutz entry can be uncertain. And telegraphing may not be a big flaw to you, but it sure is to me; I find it terribly distracting.

If you weren't nitpicking, why did you bring up the fact that she has been "marked" for flutzing? I found that laughable because when we have one of those discussions on correct edges on the lutz and the flip, Kostner, along with Rochette, are usually the ones that I would mention first. Even if she has been marked down, haven't there been a ton of skaters who are not chronic underrotaters but were mysteriously marked for underrotation occasionally, when they really were not? And who are the "people more knowledgeable than you"? I am pretty good at telling a flutz from a a non-flutz but I bet what I say doesn't really have much merit to you.

And Shizuka lips, so I wouldn't say she has the best set of triples ever.

I'll give you that. But when I said the best set of triple jumps I was thinking of skaters who have great lateral flow in and out as well as great vertical, natural spring on both their toe and edge jumps. Skaters usually are better at one or the other (for example, Mao is better at edge jumps and Yuna better at toe jumps). And Shizuka was the skater that came to mind who was equally strong on both. But I guess I could mention Rochette, too.

That honour belongs to Miki, in my book.

That honour obviously doesn't belong to Miki. Even though she has good spring on her jumps, something about her air position (perhaps the leaning backward) makes her more prone to underrotation than other skaters with good air position. And hence she is marked down more often than others. Because of the same thing, she also doesn't achieve as good of a flow out on her landings.

A close second is Midori; the leg wrap may seem to disqualify her, but everything else was so close to perfection that it almost doesn't matter.

Yeah, and I said "currently competing". I brought up Arakawa because even though she is not currently competing, she's the closest person I can think of who has similar quality on her jumps to Kostner.

Thanks for postingt this lutz.. It looked powerful,HIGH, and secure. I like her footwork. She may be the best at that. I believe she is just too tall to be a consistent jumper. She has alot of body to haul up and down.

Thanks for postingt this lutz.. It looked powerful,HIGH, and secure. I like her footwork. She may be the best at that. I believe she is just too tall to be a consistent jumper. She has alot of body to haul up and down.

Yeah, I'm not sure how anyone who knows what an outside edge is, could say that Kostner flutzes. I have a hard time believing any skater who has obviously developed the correct technique on their lutz growing up, would just one day start flutzing. That's just against their motor memory.

If you weren't nitpicking, why did you bring up the fact that she has been "marked" for flutzing?

I brought it up because I seem to recall she has been marked for flutzing. It could either have been for lipping, too, now that you've brought it up. However, I am not absolutely sure she has been penalized for wrong edge entries, and I clarified as much in an earlier post. I definitely do remember that Carolina's lutz entry has been questioned (more likely the lutz rather than the flip, and I think the discussion centered around her 2008 Worlds LP) - comments were made either here or on another board.

Originally Posted by shine

That honour obviously doesn't belong to Miki.

So you say. janetfan doesn't like Carolina's air positions - different strokes for different folks, I guess.

Originally Posted by shine

Yeah, and I said "currently competing".

Nitpicky, nitpicky...

Originally Posted by shine

I am pretty good at telling a flutz from a a non-flutz but I bet what I say doesn't really have much merit to you.

So you say. janetfan doesn't like Carolina's air positions - different strokes for different folks, I guess.

Based on your confrontational tone, I can see why it doesn't.

I like Caro's air positions when she is jumping well. I just see her tilted at times which leads to sloppy landings - or she can be off balance when she lands ('08 Worlds for instance). I appreciate that Caro, like Evan, is taller and aspects of jumping are harder for taller skaters.
I think her 2A is weak - but I will say when she pulls off a good 3x3 combo it is as good as it gets in the ladies field. (Oh gosh, have I offended the Yunabots with that remark )

I think a red hot Caro has a very good chance to medal in Vancouver. She has the talent - it is just a question of how she will skate her two Olympic programs. And how the other top skaters will do as well. I don't necessarily like her style and choreo - but it is not personal. I hope she has two good skates in Vancouver. Whether or not I like her as much as other girls has no bearing on my opinion of her skating technique and artistry.
I love Caroline Zhang but I couldn't read GS forum if I took such offense to every negative remark about her skating.
Buona fortuna Carolina.