When did Vince seperate himself from Penny? See right there, you overrate the current player.(big surprise).

Yeah, huge surprise, I think Vince is the better player... because he is maybe? Peak season of 28/6/4/2/1 on 46/41/77 percentages is far better than anything Penny did. I don't care if he's a better winner, Vince would be too if he played next to Shaq, in fact, he would have won something.

Quote:

Who cares if he made one all-nba ifrst team because Jordan was gone? Jordan was retired when Carter and McGrady were in their prime as well, shouldn't take away from their accomplishments.

Of course it matters, he made the teams when the best player was sitting out. McGrady or Vince never had Bryant, Iverson, Wade, Nash sit out.

Quote:

And what was Payton better at in '95 and '96 other than defense? Those 2 were debatable overall.

Defense by miles, and offense. Just because the stats don't show it, which is your be all and end all, doesn't mean its not so. Payton was able to lead his team to more wins, with equal talent (saying this due to Shaq being out for 30 odd games).

Quote:

I was referring to T-Mac's overall prime. When T-Mac was in prime as an overall player, he was not a very good defender.

He averaged 2spg and 1bpg in his prime, and with his defensive talents he didn't do it by going off his man and trying to pick pocket guys from behind or too much gambling.