We've been screwed for years so at least know the lay of the land. As for Kyrie, there are some folks in Cavs FO who were less than thrilled that he preferred to spend more time in gym than weight room and I agree he needs that element at some point.

We've been screwed for years so at least know the lay of the land. As for Kyrie, there are some folks in Cavs FO who were less than thrilled that he preferred to spend more time in gym than weight room and I agree he needs that element at some point.

Given your powers of persuasion with Hiko, I'm sure he was in touch with Gene Weiss yesterday afternoon. ;-)

We've been screwed for years so at least know the lay of the land. As for Kyrie, there are some folks in Cavs FO who were less than thrilled that he preferred to spend more time in gym than weight room and I agree he needs that element at some point.

Given your powers of persuasion with Hiko, I'm sure he was in touch with Gene Weiss yesterday afternoon. ;-)

“I wouldn’t want a top 10 pick this year,” Mayock said. “I think the fifth pick in the draft and the 25th pick in this draft are very similar.”

For the record, Mayock tabs Georgia linebacker Jarvis Jones as the best fit for the Browns at No. 6.

“I’m not as big on (Florida State defensive end) Bjoern Werner at six, or (Texas A&M linebacker) Damontre Moore at six,” Mayock said. “Other people will be, but I’m not. I think Jarvis Jones is the guy as long as he checks out medically.”

We've been screwed for years so at least know the lay of the land. As for Kyrie, there are some folks in Cavs FO who were less than thrilled that he preferred to spend more time in gym than weight room and I agree he needs that element at some point.

Given your powers of persuasion with Hiko, I'm sure he was in touch with Gene Weiss yesterday afternoon. ;-)

“I wouldn’t want a top 10 pick this year,” Mayock said. “I think the fifth pick in the draft and the 25th pick in this draft are very similar.”

For the record, Mayock tabs Georgia linebacker Jarvis Jones as the best fit for the Browns at No. 6.

“I’m not as big on (Florida State defensive end) Bjoern Werner at six, or (Texas A&M linebacker) Damontre Moore at six,” Mayock said. “Other people will be, but I’m not. I think Jarvis Jones is the guy as long as he checks out medically.”

I'd be fine wit JJ.

Me too. Except if we draft him his head will fall off from that spinal thingie mid-game. The refs will flag us for illegal removal of helmet. If anyone else takes him it's a non-issue for a decade of pro bowls.

Me too. Except if we draft him his head will fall off from that spinal thingie mid-game. The refs will flag us for illegal removal of helmet. If anyone else takes him it's a non-issue for a decade of pro bowls.

Hikohadon wrote:From the limited amount I've seen, I'm not a huge fan of Milliner anyway. If mediocre college QB's aren't afraid to throw at you, what'll happen when you get to the NFL?

Yeah but did they complete them?

Milliner is a very good player and a fixture for a half decade at least, Hiko. Dunno his upside, but he'd be a damn solid pick. The surgury and perhaps inability to train hard to push under 4.5 likliy means he's there for us if we want.

I think it will be fascinating to see if Bumble 2 goes for the safe pick like Milliner (ala haden) or mad upside with high risk like Ansah. I'm strating to get hooked by Ansah.

I'm assuming Womak, JJ, and what's his butt from A&M are all gone before 6.

Hikohadon wrote:From the limited amount I've seen, I'm not a huge fan of Milliner anyway. If mediocre college QB's aren't afraid to throw at you, what'll happen when you get to the NFL?

Yeah but did they complete them?

Doesn't change the fact that Brian Kelly looked at the Bama D and felt Milliner was the weak link. You think he didn't know that Milliner was considered a top 5 pick? Whatever he saw, NFL personnel will see.

Hikohadon wrote:From the limited amount I've seen, I'm not a huge fan of Milliner anyway. If mediocre college QB's aren't afraid to throw at you, what'll happen when you get to the NFL?

Yeah but did they complete them?

Milliner is a very good player and a fixture for a half decade at least, Hiko. Dunno his upside, but he'd be a damn solid pick. The surgury and perhaps inability to train hard to push under 4.5 likliy means he's there for us if we want.

I think it will be fascinating to see if Bumble 2 goes for the safe pick like Milliner (ala haden) or mad upside with high risk like Ansah. I'm strating to get hooked by Ansah.

I'm assuming Womak, JJ, and what's his butt from A&M are all gone before 6.

Yes. They did.

That's why I wasn't overly impressed.

He was right there, but he didn't stop them from catching the ball.

I'll not cry if they take him, but I don't think he's an elite talent.

Hikohadon wrote:From the limited amount I've seen, I'm not a huge fan of Milliner anyway. If mediocre college QB's aren't afraid to throw at you, what'll happen when you get to the NFL?

Yeah but did they complete them?

Milliner is a very good player and a fixture for a half decade at least, Hiko. Dunno his upside, but he'd be a damn solid pick. The surgury and perhaps inability to train hard to push under 4.5 likliy means he's there for us if we want.

I think it will be fascinating to see if Bumble 2 goes for the safe pick like Milliner (ala haden) or mad upside with high risk like Ansah. I'm strating to get hooked by Ansah.

I'm assuming Womak, JJ, and what's his butt from A&M are all gone before 6.

Yes. They did.

That's why I wasn't overly impressed.

He was right there, but he didn't stop them from catching the ball.

I'll not cry if they take him, but I don't think he's an elite talent.

Let's just say that I see Milliner as a guy that doesn't have as high a ceiling as I'd like for a 6th overall pick. Like Warmack, he'd be a nice, safe pick that would start for you for years but not have a huge impact on whether you won or lost.

For me, there are enough possibly very talented rush LB's that will be available that you just can't pass up, especially when transitioning to the 3-4 and having no high-impact pass rusher on the team.

^^ Fair enough. Womack is a freak. Buuut as you pointed out we need to put the heat on their QB so my FIRST choice is D. Moore from ATM. I love Jones but that spinal stenosis thing does not bode well with our health related issue/track record.

How about we get Anthony Spencer?....then flip a coin for Womack or Miliner?

pod2dawg wrote:^^ Fair enough. Womack is a freak. Buuut as you pointed out we need to put the heat on their QB so my FIRST choice is D. Moore from ATM. I love Jones but that spinal stenosis thing does not bode well with our health related issue/track record.

How about we get Anthony Spencer?....then flip a coin for Womack or Miliner?

I think Warmack IS a high-ceiling, "elite", whatever you want to call it prospect. I just think that having an "elite" Guard is only going to do so much for your team. There are certain positions that make a bigger impact than others, and Guard isn't one.

Now if you don't like any of the pass rushers, then sure, take a Warmack or Milliner.

But if you think any of those pass rushers have a chance of becoming game changers, then you take them over Warmack/Milliner 100 times out of 100.

Let's just say that I see Milliner as a guy that doesn't have as high a ceiling as I'd like for a 6th overall pick. Like Warmack, he'd be a nice, safe pick that would start for you for years but not have a huge impact on whether you won or lost.

For me, there are enough possibly very talented rush LB's that will be available that you just can't pass up, especially when transitioning to the 3-4 and having no high-impact pass rusher on the team.

I like your analysis, Hiko. I think our first round draft falls into 3 categories. I anticipate that JJ will be this year's Aaron Curry & Eric Berry; the guy we want who we'll miss out on.

This leaves Group One: low ceiling, "safe" solid pick, position of need. Miiliner is the lead guy.

Group Two: high ceiling, high risk, not as proven, position of need, available. Deion Jordan comes to mind.

Group Three: high ceiling, low risk, low impact. many quality OLmen there. Personally I don't think Womack makes it to 6 this year, but if you draft him you just took Larry Little. All pro for a decade. Downside: guard....

Let's just say that I see Milliner as a guy that doesn't have as high a ceiling as I'd like for a 6th overall pick. Like Warmack, he'd be a nice, safe pick that would start for you for years but not have a huge impact on whether you won or lost.

For me, there are enough possibly very talented rush LB's that will be available that you just can't pass up, especially when transitioning to the 3-4 and having no high-impact pass rusher on the team.

I like your analysis, Hiko. I think our first round draft falls into 3 categories. I anticipate that JJ will be this year's Aaron Curry & Eric Berry; the guy we want who we'll miss out on.

This leaves Group One: low ceiling, "safe" solid pick, position of need. Miiliner is the lead guy.

Group Two: high ceiling, high risk, not as proven, position of need, available. Deion Jordan comes to mind.

Group Three: high ceiling, low risk, low impact. many quality OLmen there. Personally I don't think Womack makes it to 6 this year, but if you draft him you just took Larry Little. All pro for a decade. Downside: guard....

It will be fascinating to see where Bumble & Bumble go.

My early money is on group two.

Interesting. Can you break down the pass rushers into how you see them falling into those categories? Or have you given it some thought?

I just think that's the way they go, though if Warmack was there I'd take him. That simply put. I'd take him at 6 if he's there (and he won't be).

But how do you see the pass rushers lined up as to those those three groups? Because I see risk in almost all of them for one reason or other. Impact/ceiling are different stories. But I personally have a lot of questions with the pass rushers and even with the ones rated at top of the heap. Wonder where others see that falling out...

Let's just say that I see Milliner as a guy that doesn't have as high a ceiling as I'd like for a 6th overall pick. Like Warmack, he'd be a nice, safe pick that would start for you for years but not have a huge impact on whether you won or lost.

For me, there are enough possibly very talented rush LB's that will be available that you just can't pass up, especially when transitioning to the 3-4 and having no high-impact pass rusher on the team.

I like your analysis, Hiko. I think our first round draft falls into 3 categories. I anticipate that JJ will be this year's Aaron Curry & Eric Berry; the guy we want who we'll miss out on.

This leaves Group One: low ceiling, "safe" solid pick, position of need. Miiliner is the lead guy.

Group Two: high ceiling, high risk, not as proven, position of need, available. Deion Jordan comes to mind.

Group Three: high ceiling, low risk, low impact. many quality OLmen there. Personally I don't think Womack makes it to 6 this year, but if you draft him you just took Larry Little. All pro for a decade. Downside: guard....

It will be fascinating to see where Bumble & Bumble go.

My early money is on group two.

Interesting. Can you break down the pass rushers into how you see them falling into those categories? Or have you given it some thought?

I just think that's the way they go, though if Warmack was there I'd take him. That simply put. I'd take him at 6 if he's there (and he won't be).

But how do you see the pass rushers lined up as to those those three groups? Because I see risk in almost all of them for one reason or other. Impact/ceiling are different stories. But I personally have a lot of questions with the pass rushers and even with the ones rated at top of the heap. Wonder where others see that falling out...

You and Jay are probably looking closer than I, but gut and watching says Moore is close to group 3, tho I have seen some critical of his run D ability. I also think he's gone before we pick. I see JJ in group three, too, and despite some projections gut says he'll be gone.

I tend to see Borg Warner in Group one. Just don't think he has elite physical skills.

There will be no whims, there will be no flying by the seat of our pants. So the idea of having a team that's aggressive, the players we bring in will be aggressive attacking competitive, mad as hell when we lose type of people. We're going to have an offensive and coordinator who are going to call a game with that kind of aggressiveness that we want our opponents to be on the defensive. We never want to be on the defensive. They're willing to take chances, which will occasionally blow up in our faces, but overall we think over time will prove to be successful. That will be true by the way on the player personnel front as well as the coaching front. That will be the mentality of the of the organization. So we're hiring people that will fit that culture, whether they be players, marketing people or coaches.”

Also, doesn't sound like they're taking Warmack:

Is No. 6 too high to take a guard?: “I mean if you knew he was John Hannah I guess maybe not but it wouldn’t fit. Again I wouldn’t rule anything out but it wouldn’t philosophically fit with how we’re approaching the priorities and how we’re building the team. That doesn’t mean that their isn’t exception or unusual situation or a player that’s so special that you wouldn’t look at.”

Doesn't sound like a 1st or 2nd round QB either:

So I’m not telling you we would or wouldn’t pick a quarterback in the first round or the second round, I’m just not doing that. But I’m also kind of I think implying that that’s not what I expect to have happen.

And we know this to be true since Joe doesn't lie to us:

I will not lie to anybody here. I will not mislead you. I may not answer you. I may be incomplete in my answer. You may be frustrated sometimes that you wish I would say more, I could be guilty of that. But if I answer a question directly, I’m telling you the truth to the best of my knowledge.”

Gotta say, that's certainly something I'd NEVER say if I were HMFIC. Can't do anything but blow up in your face.

Tannenbaum, by the way, doesn't have either Jarvis Jones or Damontre Moore going in the Top 10, which is all they've done so far. He seems like the guy at your fantasy draft that doesn't know what he's doing, but I guess we'll see.

Tannenbaum, by the way, doesn't have either Jarvis Jones or Damontre Moore going in the Top 10, which is all they've done so far. He seems like the guy at your fantasy draft that doesn't know what he's doing, but I guess we'll see.

Ziggy is going to become an enormous fan favorite pick in Cleveland leading up to the draft; his speed and size is going to leave a lot people just absolutely drooling. Dion Jordan is putting up comparable numbers, too.

We'll see how the FO manages risk/reward with those two....highest ceiling of the 5 pass rushing types, but also huge bust potential.

JJ was a huge favorite for the #1 overall defensive player halfway through the season (before the announced the stenosis) but he's going to fall a long way with the injury concerns. Guy at DBN (through a friend of a friend) says there may be more to his health problems than just the spinal narrowing, also.

For me, if you end up with Mingo, Jordan, or Ansah and manage to add a good 3-4 OLB to the mix through FA, you've gotten a pretty good head start at shoring up that defense.

With that in mind, i'm confident they take a guard or a punter.

Check me out at Dawgsbynature, where I write stuff, or @twitter as Josh Finney.

Damontre Moore*, DE, Texas A&M: "Doesn't run near like Mingo. He's a little bit stronger and a little bit stouter at the point. Just a puppy (20 years old)."

Jarvis Jones*, OLB, Georgia:"This year he played with some ankle and (leg) injuries and was nonexistent," another scout said. "In this league, you're not going to be 100%. This guy doesn't play hurt very well."

Sharrif Floyd*, DT, Florida: 6-2½, 297. "He's the best (defensive tackle) of the bunch," one scout said. "All he does is make plays." Played three years, finishing with 4½ sacks in 37 games (26 starts). "He could be a five-technique, a three-technique or line up on the shade (nose tackle)," another scout said. "He can rush the passer and play the run. Good all-around player."

Probably a common opinion on Jones (who's tested fine regarding the stenosis in his neck from all reports) but I'm wary of taking a guy there who could be done with one stinger or shoulder/neck issue.

I know all these guys are a play away from permanent incapacitation, and Jones could go on to have a ten year, productive career, but if you take him at #6 I think you're paying a premium on the risks that come with him. 16 might be right, 26 clearly a big bargain. But it has to be factored into the equation if you ask me.

And Moore not only only put up 12 reps but he also tweaked a hammy running the 40. Not a good day for that kid.

Mingo ran a 4.58 today, with a 37" vertical. Didn't lift. Would certainly be fine with him. I don't think Jones will be around to even think about, but his ceiling is higher then anyone else at rush LB. Kid can take over a game.

If Warmack is Will Shields 10 years from now, are we sitting back wishing we had just taken the best available? (If he is in fact the best available like many are saying)

Interested to see what Millner runs, by the way.

And I like Jordan head and shoulders over every other OLB/rush DL in this draft. He's got 15 lbs of muscle to put on after he gets that shoulder surgery and the frame to add it all. That said, I think he's goin #4.

1-Joeckel2-Floyd3-Mingo (wildcard here)4-Jordan5-Millner6-Screwed...

Playing here is the closest thing to heaven. Really, I mean it's amazing to be in a place where the fans truly cherish their football team and stick behind them win or lose. We players love them, too. I feel a sense of accomplishment playing here, we are a special breed of football players with a great opportunity." ~ tOSU LB Brian Rolle

According to ESPN's Todd McShay, one NFL scout had Milliner at 4.29 on his first run (the 4.31, as alleged by NFL Network). NFL times used hand-held times at the stadium to gather their own forty times; they're not necessarily using the same forties we are. Nevertheless, these are blazing-fast times for a built-up, 6-foot, 201-pound cornerback. It's fair to say it'd now be a surprise if Milliner got past the Lions at the No. 5 overall pick.

You think Detroit takes yet another DL? They may, but that's a situation that screams for trade up for the DB IMO. And I know you can't reasonably predict trades so it's hardly worth it. Just mentioning that would be a natural place for it if you're the Lions.

You think Detroit takes yet another DL? They may, but that's a situation that screams for trade up for the DB IMO. And I know you can't reasonably predict trades so it's hardly worth it. Just mentioning that would be a natural place for it if you're the Lions.

Yes, since they cut Vanden Bosch and might lose Avril. That might actually be their top priority. And Schwartz coached Ziggy at the Senior Bowl, rumor has it he's in love...