After a recent $50 price reduction, Sony is now offering an additional $50 off with a mail in rebate. The offer applies to Sony's higher end Clie's, the NX80, NX73 and the UX series. Also, the VR100K Clie video recorder has started to ship.

RE: Sony Business Plan

I must admit now the PalmOne update has been made available there's not much stopping me upgrading from the T625C to the T3 (which is the plan) but I really would like to get a new batch unit which has the update incorporated (and may include other undisclosed improvements) .. this means waiting until at least December and now I'm wondering whether to hold off a little longer to see what Sony's next offering will be. However I'm fairly certain that whatever it is they won't be able to match the feature/price point of the T3.

RE: Sony Business Plan

Well, as bad as the T3's fried SD cards fiasco was, I would STILL buy a Palm T3 (or future model) before I would ever buy ANY Sony PDA which requires their proprietary Memory Stick. Sony would be wise to start offering some alternatives to the Memory Stick or they will never compete effectively with Palm's products.

RE: Sony Business Plan

I chose the T3 now (actually Oct 6)- the screen is so much beter than the small UX50 and that folding toothpic stylus is a joke for anyone who actually enters data on their Palm device. Did I mention the Sony's crappy fonts?

I use Graffiti 1 on the T3 and can write while walking & talking (on my T68i) plus the photos are so much better with my Canon IxusII. If you have trouble with graffiti (1 or 2) and want to sit at a desk & use the keyboard then theres no doubt that the UX has one of the best Palm keyboards.

Ive still have a T665 plus 2 portable charge units and a black toothpic - it had a battery life that makes the T3 look excellent - I'm reluctant to sell it to anyone I consider a friend.

Just stop dithering and buy the T3 to enjoy now - if Sony comes out with a better device that suits european hands and your needs then buy that - be a good consumer and enjoy today!

-awful stylus. and I HAVE SMALL HANDS-memory partioning 32MB virtual MS card, 16MB "regular" mem.-camera was pretty crappy-crappy scroll wheel/buttons placement. can barely use in tablet mode. again, I HAVE SMALL HANDS.-bulky ac adapter-ir port bad placement. should have been next to camera.

well gonna give it a go tomorrow. if it doesn't work out, I'm gonna return it. man, i wonder when costco will carry the TT3.

RE: Sony Business Plan

Used to be that way, but the competition today changes everything. If the Sony handhelds were the only game in town then they could get these premium prices. With Dell selling the Axim 3i for $379, it is unthinkable that Sony could sell the UX50 for 50% more.25% more? Maybe.

"I know I'm opening up a can of worms but what's with ppl not liking MS because it's proprietary?"

I have nothing against MS per se, but it just so happens that I own about 8 SD cards, which represents a significant investment. If Sony expects people to switch to their handhelds, they are going to have to drop the SONLY act and adopt some form of standardization.

"I'll understand if you dislike it because it doesn't do this or can't do that... but just because it's proprietary?Are you guys all on Linux? Palm OS is proprietary...Geez..."

No, I use Window$, not because I am in love with it, but because in the business world, it is a standard, like it or not.

RE: Sony Business Plan

The thing is that sony forces you to use a proprietary storage format.This means:*They set the price*They set the sizes*They set the max. data transfer rates*They set what devies can use it*They decide who is aloud to license it

With SD (or CF):*Competition means that prices are lower*Sizes are being worked on by many companies to try for competative edge (CF will be at 12GB soon)*Max. data transfer is set by device & card - usually higher*Anyone with enough money to license it can do it (look at sandick and noone stopped them (a sad day that was))

The downside to using an open format is that things like the T3 + SD issue arrise but they are normally resolved quickly (look how long it took MS to get above 128 - SD issue was resolved quite quickly)

Really - MS isnt that bad - its just that the whole MS/MSPro thing has really annoyed people. I prefer SD or CF where they got it right first time round. CF has a limit of 137GB - but by the time we need to get to that they could have updated the standard. SD has a limit of 8 or 16GB - same thing.

RE: Sony Business Plan

I find it interesting that the Memory Stick is such an interesting means of condemning a Sony PDA. When people cant find anything else to talk about their beloved palmOne PDA's, they always go out on a rampage saying how Sony overprices its PDA's, and how they're monopolising the Memory Stick Format...(serious... someone actually claimed that here)

In my case, I widely prefer the Memory Stick to the SD Card, because I use an Acer PC, am thinking of getting a Samsung Handphone or a P900, and am currently using a Clie with a Sony Cybershot Digital Cam.

What Sony is trying to do with the memory stick is to support their own products, and they have a whole wide array of products with this compatibility built in them.

People may talk about the "Standard" SD Card, but in the future, when Compact Flash eventually gives way to the smaller formats, and these smaller formats reach the price level of the CF card... I sure would not want SD Cards dominating the market, in essence monopolising it. And that is the last thing I'd want to see in the Flash Memory Market. I would still prefer Some form of a competitor, to spur development, and keep prices in check... while offering a viable alternative to the SD Card. Right now... the Memory Stick seems to be the only viable alternative, and I'll stick to that.

RE: Sony Business Plan

Really - MS isnt that bad - its just that the whole MS/MSPro thing has really annoyed people.

Every flash standard has its limitations and every standard gets upgraded sooner or later. SD will run out at some size as well. Furthermore, MSPro guarantees transfer rates that allow real-time video recording, something that no SD standard does.

RE: Memory Sticks

Memory SrickPRO features a read speed of 20MBps and a MINIMUM Write Speed of 15MBps, meaning it can be reliably used to record Hi-Quality Digital Video.

In contrast, the only Hi-Speed SD Cards are the Sandisk Ultra-II which feature a read speed of 10MBps, and a MINIMUM Write speed of 9MBps... not as well performing as the memory sticks. On a little note, I got that info from an announcement from PIC a few months ago... and it seems that currently, SanDisk is only offering UltraII CF Cards

Perhaps most would agree, Sony is #1 or 2 in most of those things. Now does SD or CF cards connect to ALL of those devices? Won't and can't. Because Sandisk/Lexar, or whatever do not manuafacture other devices like TV, camera, etc...

So you pay for the ability to take a photo with a (5 megpix) Sony P10 digital camera, plop it into the UX-50, or a Sony Ericsson phone, view it, email it away!

RE: Sony (Giving you the) Business Plan

People may talk about the "Standard" SD Card, but in the future, when Compact Flash eventually gives way to the smaller formats,

I'd watch the 'eventually' - There's a total of, what, one 802.11 SD card out there? 802.11b CF cards are regularly going for less than $40/ea on Pricewatch.

I think the R&D people are finding out just how hard it is to cram actual electronics into something the size of a SD card - Pity the marketing people diden't ASK them first before starting the party.

and these smaller formats reach the price level of the CF card...

That dosen't make any sense - If you assume that a chip die with (say, 256mb) flash on it costs $X dollars, why would making a bigger die with the same density (Say, 512mb, with twice the footprint.) cost more than 2*X? It's four cents(max) for the Silicon - Which means, of course, that CF will not only continue to have the capacity lead, it'll probably also keep the price lead, as well - The sizes they're just now debuting for SD are already in mass production (And reduced Manuf. cost) on CF.

Putting something in a smaller package will always cost more, and unlike (say) Celphones, the size difference between CF and MS, or SD isen't so great a burden that people will give up what they have to switch.

I sure would not want SD Cards dominating the market, in essence monopolising it.

Seen the 'xD' yet? Thumbnail sized, mainly used by Olympus cameras, IIRC. The SD spec hasen't even cooled off from the setting, and they've already got competition. I don't think you have to worry about a monopoly in the handheld/camera/MP3 player memory market.

As far as handheld peripherals, the problem that I've had with MS is that it's poorly designed(Do you want MS, MS Mini, MS Duo, MS pro, or whatever they come up with next week?), slow, and Sony can't seem to keep from shoving their DRM fingers into the pie (Magic Gate, anyone?) The fact that they can't seem to actually produce much in the way of peripherals for it dosen't bode well, either - I don't want to be told 'EBay your handheld and buy a new one' if I want 802.11 capability.

If you want competition, don't look to Sony for it - They've done all they can to try to lock consumers into their products (MS, propriatary digital signaling standards on AV equipment, MD, etc, etc, etc), so they don't have to actually compete with anybody on any level besides advertising.

RE: Sony business plan - We will bury you all.

orb2069 - I agree with everything you say about CF. It's STILL the standard to beat. I don't agree with your fear of Sony, though - it's integrated approach works better than SD. The only problem is (as you alluded to) the risk of being abantoned by the hardware manufacturer.

There's always another memory format around the corner

I don't think SD is going to last too long. It's too small to easily make SD peripherals with current technology. It's a lot more expensive than CF. It's now got competitors in the small size territory - xD and new Memory Sticks.

SD was a premature standard that answers a question that didn't need to be asked.

ATTN developers: - what does the T3 patch really do?

Let's see, a month after this monster bug, MOTHRA is discovered on the T3, a patch is slipped into Palm's website with no real explanation regarding what it's "fixing" or how it's doing that. The patch has been out for only a couple days, so let's not get ahead of ourselves.

It would be nice to hear a developer's analysis of what the patch is actually changing and what compromises - if any - were made to put out the SD barbecues. That's the kind of real, brutally honest info I come to Palminfocenter hoping to read. The kind of info you just won't find anywhere else.

Ska Smith, EsquireMicrosoft Spec-Ops, Misinformatics Division

RE: About the xD

I'd watch the 'eventually' - There's a total of, what, one 802.11 SD card out there? 802.11b CF cards are regularly going for less than $40/ea on Pricewatch.I'll have to agree with this. I never mentioned anything about the CF Card's dominance of the market. I only said that in time... maybe not even in the near future, CF will see the end of its day when technilogy improves sufficiently enough to pack everything a CF Card can do into an SD Card or a MemStick. I used the word eventually for a reason ;)

Putting something in a smaller package will always cost more, and unlike (say) Celphones, the size difference between CF and MS, or SD isen't so great a burden that people will give up what they have to switch.Ofcourse it'll cost more. But I'm not talking the cost price... I'm talking the Selling Price. Surely the companies make a profit from their card or they wont be selling it. When competition heats up, they'll be forced to reduce their profit gained from each card, hence driving down the price.

Sony can't seem to keep from shoving their DRM fingers into the pie (Magic Gate, anyone?

Seems like you dont really understand what is MagicGate. A MagicGate MS is essentially more similar to an SD Card than the Normal MS. Notice... SECURE digital. SD cards have their own DRM systems built in... just that it hasn't been used yet. Besides... you dont want DRM, use it like a normal MemStick... you can still store anything a normal MS or SD can store. So I dont see your point about MagicGate's DRM here.

the problem that I've had with MS is that it's poorly designed(Do you want MS, MS Mini, MS Duo, MS pro, or whatever they come up with next week?), slow...

If you had noticed the posts above, you would have realised that the MS isn't slow... its significantly faster than the SD Cards. The MSPro standard is here to stay. Sony made a mistake on the original MS by limiting its capacity. The MSPRO has a Max rated capacity of 32GB. Twice that of the SD Card, and it certainly is here to stay. The MS Duo is meant for smaller devices... not as a replacement to the standard MS. Take mini-SD if you may..

Seen the 'xD' yet? Thumbnail sized, mainly used by Olympus cameras, IIRC. Precisely why it hasn't gained recognition yet. MAINLY used in Olympus Cameras.... xD was meant to be a successor to the doomed smartmedia card. The chances are that it'll remain exclusive to those cameras for some time to come...

The fact that they can't seem to actually produce much in the way of peripherals for it dosen't bode well, either - I don't want to be told 'EBay your handheld and buy a new one' if I want 802.11 capability. If you had noticed... the MS Market is expanding. Hagiwara.... yes... Hagiwara, not Sony is producing a WiFi Memory Stick. Sony itself is producing everything from a Fingerprint recognition stick to a Mic... and I'm sure there'll be more on the way. Not as fast or robust as CF, but definately better than what SD has to offer right now...

I noticed that most of your statements were comparing MS with CF. The discussion taking place was comparing the MS with SD cards.... Just FYI...

RE: Sony Business Plan

Oh come on... Just beacuse Palm and HS lose money doesn't mean everyone should... what kind of logic is that? Just because they make money doesn't make any point... just comes to prove your petty excuses to find fault with them for some reason or another

RE: Sony Business Plan

I have no idea if Sony made a profit on handheld sales. Does anyone know if they break that out of corporate earnings? At any rate I have to believe handheld sales are a tiny fraction of their overall business, which is having a tough quarter (like many others).

Don't get me wrong, I have a high regard for Sony, and own/have owned many of their products. It just dissapoints me that, with a few tweaks, they could have the absolute best PDA's on the market, and they seem to just not care or try very hard.

RE: Sony Business Plan

I only said that in time... maybe not even in the near future, CF will see the end of its day when technilogy improves sufficiently enough to pack everything a CF Card can do into an SD Card or a MemStick. I used the word eventually for a reason ;)

...And I pointed out why this didn't make any sense to me - By the time you can fit a 802.11 chip onto a SD, you will already be capable of fitting 802.11 and memory onto a CF. By the time you can fit 802.11/memory on an SD, you'll be able to fit 802.11/memory/BT onto a CF card. The only way it would come true is if they stopped making CF cards at some point - Which, given the edge illustrated, seems unlikely.

...Putting something in a smaller package will always cost more...Ofcourse it'll cost more. But I'm not talking the cost price... I'm talking the Selling Price. Surely the companies make a profit from their card or they wont be selling it.

Yes, and when the production/tool up/development costs for a 512mb CF card are only pennies more than for a 256mb SD card - And you wind up setting your CF prices only a few dollars less than the SD cards of the same size, guess which makes more money?

Seems like you dont really understand what is MagicGate. A MagicGate MS is essentially more similar to an SD Card than the Normal MS.

With the minor exception that SD's technical specifications are decided by a consortium, and MagicGate's are decided by Sony - And quite possibly changed on a whim by Sony.

The problem I have with DRM-equipped hardware is that we're currently in the seeding phase for it - Once any DRM scheme owns 80% of the market, expect to see it required - Ebooks that won't run off of unprotected media, music that requires a licenced player. See the somersaults that Bookwise has gone through regarding DRM for an example.

the problem that I've had with MS is that it's poorly designed...

If you had noticed the posts above, you would have realised that the MS isn't slow... its significantly faster than the SD Cards.

For MSPro only - which means I have backwards incompatability with older MS devices - Now, what was the point of buying Memory Stick again?

The MSPro standard is here to stay. Sony made a mistake on the original MS by limiting its capacity.

That's called 'poor design', which is/was my point in the first place. All the same, I think I'd rather not use something with design flaws that could have been (If they so desired) avoided with thirty minutes of thought. Did Sony really think that nobody would EVER need more than 128mb of flash, ala Bill Gates?

The fact that they can't seem to actually produce much in the way of peripherals for it dosen't bode well, either... the MS Market is expanding. Hagiwara.... yes... Hagiwara, not Sony is producing a WiFi Memory Stick....

There were a whole pile of MS peripheral mockups displayed as 'in development' when Sony entered the PDA market - At least half of them are STILL in development. The market has 'Been expanding' for quite some time, to be honest.

Perhaps, just perhaps, maybe the enthusiasm isen't warranted?

Not as fast or robust as CF, but definately better than what SD has to offer right now...

I noticed that most of your statements were comparing MS with CF. The discussion taking place was comparing the MS with SD cards.... Just FYI...

I realize that - I just thought I'd provide some comments from outside the 'Special olympics' range of media capability/bandwidth.

If Palm dosen't get over it's cranial-rectal-insertion thing about SD, I'm going to have to start looking outside the OS for my next hardware. Maybe an OS4 emulator running on PPC hardware? Who knows- Fortunately, the question isen't important yet.

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