On Gab, some are blaming yesterday’s school shooting — by a possible white supremacist — on the Jews

On Gab — the “free speech” social media site that has become something of a haven for the internet’s worst people — some of the regulars have come up with a rather inventive explanation for the Parkland, Florida school shooting yesterday that left 17 dead. It’s all the fault of the Jews.

Never mind that an explicitly fascist group claims the accused shooter, 19-year-old Nikolas Cruz, as a member, and says he participated in their paramilitary training exercises. As some of the best minds on Gab see it, Cruz is actually the puppet of a vast Jewish conspiracy — and probably a Jew himself.

Their evidence? The fact that Cruz is such a well-known Jewish surname.

Wait, what?

While Cruz isn’t probably the first surname one thinks of when one thinks about Jewish surnames, there were some Spanish Jews who adopted the name to hide their Jewishness from the authorities … during the Spanish Inquisition. 500 years ago.

That of course isn’t proof that Cruz himself was Jewish.

Also, he was adopted.

But more than a few on Gab have something of a vested interest in trying to blame yesterday’s horrific carnage on a Jew or the Jews. See if you can figure out what the hidden agenda is as you scroll through these lightly censored comments from a fellow who calls himself DrGasChamber.

A Gabber called stevec, meanwhile, isn’t completely sure there even was a shooting yesterday. But whatever happened, he’s pretty sure Jews are to blame.

One commenter, the not-so-accurately named @NameTheJew, even made a little meme.

And no, there is no evidence that Elliot Rodger — that’s him on the left — was Jewish either.

Needless to say, not everyone on Gab blames the Jews for whatever they think happened in Parkland Florida yesterday. A fellow called Pho Chan, for example, had a rather different take on the Jewish Question.

Lovely.

For more on Nikolas Cruz, a possible incel who has been hailed by incels online as an Elliot Rodger style hero, see my post yesterday.

@Shadowplay
Glad to hear I helped flip a switch for you. I’m currently developing education software. I’m still in the minority of software developers in my company (only 5% women) but just across the way are our content developers who are majority women. There’s still some techbro culture but at least I’m not afraid someone will doxx me and get me fired for being a feminist like that woman at Nintendo (who didn’t even have any say in the content of the games, no less).

Gonna have to disagree here with respect to the neonazi militia (i.e. Cruz probably wasn’t a member). This was found on a particular site called 4chan, KNOWN for intentionally trolling media for the purpose of (far) right rhethoric that “all mainstream media is fake news”. When the media called the leader of the neonazi militia he most likely realized the opportunity and lied for this reason.
To all media: NEVER trust anything on 4chan; the place is full of people who want to embarrass you.

“because authors sources show that mentally ill people under-represented in cases of violent crime.”

Not actually true. Once you control the causes of violent behavior, (such as substance abuse), mentally ill people are about *as likely* to commit violent crimes as people without mental illness.

“so it is not mean that mental ill people don’t feel angry – but this anger is same amount as for people without mental illness. maybe less.”

Some mental illnesses literally manifest as extreme anger.

@WWTH

“Can you just stop arguing against points nobody ever made?”

I started off this thread making this argument that was aimed at no-one in particular, and I’ll finish up with it being aimed at no-one in particular. Eventually someone will notice that I’m not arguing that mental illness causes violence.

Why does the argument matter?

A. Because we have to stay within facts if we want to be taken seriously.

B. Because unlike countries with universal healthcare, mental healthcare is much more under assault in the US. And mentally ill people are more likely to respond with things that *do* increase violent behavior when they lack access to care, such as taking drugs. This issue is far too complex for black and white statements.

Because if everyone is misinterpreting you, the problem is YOU. Everyone here has basic reading comprehension skills.

From what I can gather, you think we shouldn’t say we know for sure he doesn’t have a diagnosis. But I haven’t actually seen anyone make that argument. So there’s not really any reason to fight against a point no one is making. If someone has made that point, link to the comment so we can see what you’re talking about.

Your other point seems to be that we should address mental illness. But it has been addressed. A lot. This is a big part of why it’s in the comments policy to no internet diagnose or blame mental illness for crime. Because we’ve had this argument so many times. That’s why I said it’s a PRATT at this point.

If I’m misreading you, feel free to clearly and simply state your argument. If not and you’re hoping to make yourself the exception to the comments policy or if you’re attributing arguments to commenters that they haven’t made, knock it the fuck off. Or I’m going to email David even though I really don’t want to bug him with stuff while he’s still not up to full health. As the comment policy says, if you disagree with the policy, contact him. Don’t argue it here.

“So mental illness is therefore as relevant to violent crime as whether you have allergies. So why bring it up?”

Because, as an allergy sufferer, if our collective asshole brought up allergies as the cause to violence, and proposed taking allergy sufferer’s rights (and healthcare), I would bring it up. And also point out that “allergy sufferers are nonviolent” as bullshit, because clearly there is no shortage of violent allergy sufferers.

Although maybe people with allergies are more likely to be violent, I don’t know.

Not actually true. Once you control the causes of violent behavior, (such as substance abuse), mentally ill people are about *as likely* to commit violent crimes as people without mental illness.

problems with this

1. simply I say one thing, you say another
2. only using one source
3. you say 22% you calculated, 25% of population is mentally ill. 22% is less than 25%
4. mentally ill people still not majority of violent crimes and you are ignoring my point to fix on something very small.

you originally decided with scanty information that this person is mentally ill. (and no, people who knew him is not correct assessment of mental illness, because those people live in this world which is against mentally ill people and also they are who was ‘terrorised’ by him, they can say this to make him look bad. how you know they aren’t same people who make arguement that it is not guns which kill but mental illness?)

and my point is, we should not say this, because it makes stereotypes strong and harms mentally ill people generally. you admit yourself, it is not black and white. correct. and your counter arguement to mine is basically ‘but also because some mentally ill people are violent, so we should talk about this’.

well, no.

yes there is time and place for this, but this not that time or place. not when President of United States I throwing his mentally ill citizens under a bus to protect his guns and gun-lover citizens.

look, this whole thread now about mental illness, republicans and gun-lovers will be so happy to see it.

but much better is what I see on twitter, students from this school who will not allow subject to change away from real problem of guns. they demand justice. they ignore these distraction arguements. they are brave.

this at least 5th time i explained this, my arguement, because you move around it or away from it or fix on one small thing.

simply, it is wrong that mentally ill people being thrown under a bus to protect guns of people who don’t care about their fellow citizens and such arguments and assumption as your original one support this, even if by accident. so we should avoid to make diagnosis of mental illness.

why we still talk about this and not about that this guy loves donald trump? or is probably white supremacist? or went on NRA funded school trip to fire guns? or bought his gun legally? there is same amount of evidence for those things – actually more – than there is for if he is mentally ill.

enough of this distractions, you are doing job of NRA for them 🤷

here some more links, my internet is really slow so it took me long time to gather theses so I will not look any more:

Using National Comorbidity Survey data, this report concluded that, for individuals with severe and persistent mental illness (SPMI), “the SPMI population without substance-related disorders may be responsible for no more than about 3 percent of violent crime

Members of the public exaggerate both the strength of the association between mental illness and violence and their own personal risk. Finally, too little is known about the social contextual determinants of violence, but research supports the view the mentally ill are more often victims than perpetrators of violence.

On the aggregate level, the notion that mental illness causes gun violence stereotypes a vast and diverse population of persons diagnosed with psychiatric conditions and oversimplifies links between violence and mental illness. Notions of mental illness that emerge in relation to mass shootings frequently reflect larger cultural issues that become obscured when mass shootings come to stand in for all gun crime and when “mentally ill” ceases to be a medical designation and becomes a sign of violent threat.

The campaign’s own statistics suggest such assumptions might be prevalent: they say that more than one-third of the public believe that people with mental health problems are more likely to be violent.

People like Nanny Oggs Bosom were already discussing the topic of “entitled brat, not mentally ill” before I chimed in. But it was also several people other than them dancing around it, and it was also being said on twitter, and in the media, and etc etc.

I tl;dr my point in my first post; mental illness doesn’t give you a bad character, mental health doesn’t give you a good one. And vice-versa.

Than the appropriate response to Nanny Oggs Bosom would be something along the lines of “we don’t know for sure that he didn’t have a diagnosis, but he’s definitely an entitled brat”

Instead, you did this

In this case he’s BOTH. Not all school shooters are mentally ill, but this one is.

You internet diagnosed him. Not even with a specific disorder. Just declared he is mentally ill.

That is what got pushback and that is what is a violation of the comment policy. I’d suggest apologizing and dropping it.

And no one is saying being mentally ill makes a person good, so I’m not sure why you keep repeating that. Or why you keep using shit you saw on twitter or other sites to argue with us. That didn’t go over well when you accused us of being classist for calling Trump voters racist because you saw a Democrat somewhere else being classist. It’s not going over well now. It won’t go over well at any point in the future. So, why do it?

I had a big angry post about this ridiculous mental illness argument. Had a nice flow. Brought up the conflation between mental health and mental illness; discussed how his recent traumas were no excuse. Brought up the link between these shootings, domestic violence, and toxic masculinity. Bared my teeth a bit more than usual.

Deleted it. I know the replies would only be angry defensiveness and accusation, and I don’t really have the go-juice to deal with that. I have zero desire to defend myself, and don’t feel like handing out the weapons I’d have to defend against.

If you’d like to see the reason that I don’t much comment anymore, well, look upthread. There are so many things to talk about in this. I’d love to talk about with this. The kids are scheduling a nation-wide walk-out, and that’s really exciting – shows how engaged they are. Would love to talk about how the right’s guns aren’t gonna be taken away by Obama – they’re gonna be taken away by their own children.

Stream-of-consciousness here, but I’m sort of considering deleting this too and just writing the one line, “this is why I don’t much comment anymore,” but that’d be vague and passive aggressive. Is there a point to posting this at all? Guess we’ll see.

If the media, politicians, and some people here, must talk about mental health issues then how about the mental health of the kids who saw their friends murdered, or every other kid who must now have at the back of their mind what might happen at school today. And whether their medical cover is going to pay for any counselling they may need.

I don’t know if it’s just me. But I’d like to see the banhammer, or at least a stint in moderation for mrex.

She may not be an MRA troll, but I do think she’s taking advantage of David’s absence to shit stir. The normal policy we have here of not letting problematic things stand uncontested is good and something we should keep. But it can also be used against us and I think that’s what’s happening. Someone doesn’t have to be intentionally trolling to be toxic. I hope I’m not one of the toxic ones, but as I said earlier in the thread, I’ve seen what happens when people let things go in the interest of keeping the peace and it’s major blow ups that lead to mass exodus instead of minor blow ups. In my experience, bottling things up is never good. On the one hand, I’m tired of playing bad cop. On the other hand, I fear what will happen if I don’t. So I don’t really know what I can do to make things better. Suggestions would be welcome though.

Anyway. On to talk about guns. I saw something appalling on CNN a couple of days ago. They were interviewing Florida governor Rick Scott. Wolf Blitzer showed him a video of the mother of a victim making an impassioned plea for gun control. Scott was saying it’s his goal for this to never happen again. Blitzer tried to get him to state outright that he would push for a new gun law of some sort. Even if it’s just to increase the age one can buy an AR-15 from 18 to 21. He wouldn’t even commit to that. Just said everything is on the table. Which is of course, code for nothing will be done. It was disgusting. I fear that literally every one in the country will have to lose a loved one to a mass shooting for the political will for gun control to be there.

I do think it’s time to stop coddling voters who say they’re for common sense gun control and then turn around and vote for anti gun control candidates though. I think it’s time to make it clear that a vote for an NRA shill is a vote for more dead children. Because that is just the truth.

@Alan
At least one study found that cognitive behavioral therapy significantly reduces symptoms of PTSD and depression in kids exposed to violence in school. I hope someone with the power to do so is organizing something for these kids.

I already apologized for the internet diagnosis and dropped it. But I’ll do it again. I’m sorry. And it’s dropped.

Why is it that everyone else can rant about shit that they see on twitter, but when I do it, I must be picking some fight with someone specific here? But whatever. Obviously you either get my point by now, or you don’t.

Cheers for that Kupo. That’s a,really interesting study; although I’ll probably have to ask Scildfreja to explain some of the bigger words to me.

It’s cheering that people are working to provide solutions for children so affected. It’s depressing that there’s a large enough pool of children that have experienced this to make the study statistically robust.

Aw, thank you all <3 I'm not going anywhere! I just try to avoid writing in anger, and these threads are turning more and more into sniping and arguing amongst ourselves lately. So I consider a reply, realize it's just angry, and then decide against it.

On the PTSD that these kids are certainly getting – ain't a snowball in hell that these kids are going to get any resources for this. The day of the shooting, the congress tore down disability rights. Getting them help will require the same hard work as getting gun control. An excellent idea though, and I haven't seen anything like that out there! US peeps, that sounds like something you could call your local representatives about! Both state and federal reps might like that idea. Try calling them and see if they'd support the idea? It's worth it, at the very least it'd be doing something. Try it!

@WWTH, you very much are the watchdog of the community, and I can’t appreciate you enough for it <3 You are the momma duck and we are all the ducklings, it seems sometimes. And it's not very fair to you! Quite a strain, and I'm sure it makes it hard to post sometimes.

On that note,

I want the argument dropped too, @mrex. But not with that conditional. Not with the "go ahead and be unfair to me" condition. I've got a bit of a reply that might help you understand why you're running into so much flak for what is essentially agreement, if you want, but I won’t unless you ask me to. That sort of examination can be painful after all.

Something I haven’t seen mentioned here:
Trump and friends always say, “Nothing to do with guns; the shooter was mentally ill.” But the first piece of legislation he passed made it easier for mentally ill people to get guns.

Now I don’t think mental illness has anything to do with this, but Trump says it does and still made it easier for them to get guns.

Don’t mind criticism, and I’ve always listened to you, even if you turned out to be wrong. Sometimes you seem to be eggshell walking around me. I have *no* desire to hurt you.

The anger and defensivness really only come if I feel that someone is intending to hurt me, or someone else, or if I can’t tell what someone’s intent is. I actually don’t feel that I’m being treated unfairly here, just feel frustrated and sad.

@Sheila, that, exactly! The GOP’s thoughts and prayers ring so hollow when they don’t even pay lip service to the thing they’re blaming the shootings on. They’re basically telling Americans that they have to get used to it, ’cause they won’t be doing anything about it. I really hope you guys down there show’em that you won’t take that for an answer.

@mrex, I’ll be a bit more blunt in this one. I do walk on eggshells around you – many do I think. It isn’t because I’m afraid you’ll hurt me. It’s because I believe you’ll attack me. I self-censor to avoid conflict, ’cause I don’t got time for that.

I’m not sure how you want me to communicate this stuff to you; let me know how and I’ll do my best. It’s a workday for me, though, so I can’t do much more than occasional checking for posts.

Something I haven’t seen mentioned here:
Trump and friends always say, “Nothing to do with guns; the shooter was mentally ill.” But the first piece of legislation he passed made it easier for mentally ill people to get guns.

Now I don’t think mental illness has anything to do with this, but Trump says it does and still made it easier for them to get guns.

Good point. There’s also the fact that there’s no way in hell Republicans will ever do anything to help people actually access high quality and effective mental health services. Undermining the ACA and CHIP is sure not a good start. I’d like to stress the effective part too, because even middle class people with health insurance can’t afford everything they or their dependents need.

This has nothing to do with shootings since eating disorders are not among the illnesses blamed for them, but I’ll use ED treatment as an example because it’s something I know a bit about. For inpatient services, insurance companies usually quit paying when a patient’s vitals get good and their weight goes back up into a BMI considered healthy. Or when they can be persuaded to eat a certain amount. But when a person is malnourished, their brain is just not going to be working well enough to really properly do intensive therapy. So patients get kicked out of treatment centers before they’re ready to go. So they just end up relapsing. I have a book of essays written by people with eating disorders and one of the authors had to fake a suicide threat because she knew she desperately needed inpatient care but the insurance companies said otherwise and going to the ER and saying she wanted to kill herself was the only way she was going to get it covered. Tl;dr it’s not just a matter of offering something threadbare because that doesn’t work. A mental illness is not something that can be fixed with 10 counseling sessions or whatever.

Serious reform of the US’ mental health care system is needed. Not because of mass shootings but because people just aren’t getting the care they need. If anyone thinks the GOP will be willing and able to anything even approaching that reform, they haven’t been paying attention. It’s just so insulting that they’re selling the improvement of mental health care as a solution to violent crime when we all know that they aren’t even going to follow through with their deflection. I wish they would, because we need that. But I know they won’t.

On the one hand, I’m tired of playing bad cop. On the other hand, I fear what will happen if I don’t. So I don’t really know what I can do to make things better. Suggestions would be welcome though.

It’s not good that you’re carrying so much weight on this when we’re all involved. What can we do to help?
Your efforts here are always appreciated, by the way, especially over the last couple of months, when you’ve done so much to keep this place going.

This appears to be an example of the broken clock rule. Cruz actually IS Jewish by biological ancestry (he was adopted). He had remarked on Instagram that he never wanted to meet his birth mother because she was Jewish.

I’ve written this out a few ways, mostly to try to parse the social dynamic in my head. It’s gone through a few transformations since earlier today. I’ll keep it slim. It’s also just my perception, so take with salt.

You’re really aggressive, mrex. That’s the heart of the issue I think. In an argument you’re vociferous, but even in agreeing you’re still aggressive. I feel like there’s a dose of one-upsmanship in there as well, as if there’s a competition to be more right. It can almost feel like targetless aggression, disembodied. I’m never quite sure what’ll earn aggression from you in conversation, so I comment less.

More theoretical social dynamic stuff: aggression amongst friends, or in non-hostile or unsure social contexts, is a dominance display. It’s about asserting authority, carving out a niche. In a hostile social context it’s still a hierarchy thing, but much more about forcing out the opposing elements instead of just shaking out social positions.

Dominance displays and hierarchy aren’t bad in and of themselves! Heck, I’m engaged in one right now. Mediation is also an assertion of dominance, it’s placing oneself as a central figure in a social group. Excessive aggression fractures group cohesion, though. I feel that’s the issue.

When you first started commenting, I recall you saying that you liked causing a bit of chaos, or something of the sort. That you’ve been in other commentariats and were ejected. I suggest that maybe it’s your aggression that caused it.

I hope you can understand why you get a negative reaction, and that my external perception can help you figure things out!

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee | February 17, 2018 at 2:05 pm
I fear that literally every one in the country will have to lose a loved one to a mass shooting for the political will for gun control to be there.

Fuck, someone even shot at republican congressmen and they still won’t pass some fucking gun control.

They literally give no fucks about controlling guns, because apparently that NRA paycheck is so fucking good.

That’s really the thing, the paycheque isn’t even all that great. Have you seen some of the payouts? Pathetically small for a political campaign. Like, “down payment on a sensible mortgage” scale.

Nah, I figure that they’re all afraid of negative smear campaigns. The NRA has smeared a number of politicians very successfully in the past, and basically hold that over the heads of every other representative. They’re all too chicken to stand up against it – probably because they all have way too much legitimate dirty laundry for the NRA to air.

They really do need to grow some ovaries and f’n stand up already. Cowards.

I am little bit tired that what I written is ingored even if i say it many times and try to write in different ways. and I am annoyed when words put in my mouth to make me look like the bad guy. 😕 and I’m annoyed that generally I am afraid to say this or say what I really think, or look angry – because again I will be made to look like I am the bad guy.

“When you first started commenting, I recall you saying that you liked causing a bit of chaos, or something of the sort.” Not chaos, but dissenting opinions. At the time, I had been hanging out with skeptics™, which didn’t do me any favors. That was also a couple of years ago, I honestly thought that I was pulling away from that.

“It can almost feel like targetless aggression, disembodied. I’m never quite sure what’ll earn aggression from you in conversation, so I comment less.”

A lot of the times it is targetless rage.

I guess it never sunk in that I could be intimidating people away from commenting though, or coming off as dominating them. That’s a huge problem, and 100% me. Thanks for sharing. 🙁

It doesn’t usually stress me out too much to actually be the meanie pants one who pushes back against BS. It does seem to stress others out. So I don’t mind doing it. It’s even good for me to do it because it’s easier for me to stand up for myself or others online than off so it’s kind of good practice.

I just worry sometimes that I’m upsetting others by being so quick to push back. So I do hope you all will let me know if I go too far.

Donate to the Mammoth!

We Hunted the Mammoth is an ad-free, reader-supported publication written and published by longtime journalist David Futrelle, who has been tracking, dissecting, and mocking the growing misogynistic backlash since 2010, exposing the hateful ideologies of Men’s Rights Activists, incels, alt-rightists and many others.

We depend on support from people like you. Please consider a donation or a monthly pledge by clicking below! there's no need for a PayPal account.

Send comments, questions, and tips for stories to me at dfutrelle@gmail.com, or by clicking here