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I think a realistic Braves deal for Bryant is like...KB for Bryce Wilson, Ender, and Camargo. I think people are underrating how much Bryant's big arb numbers are pressing his trade value down. I also don't think they pull the trigger on a Bryant trade unless they get a major league contributor in it.

2019 - 2020 Off Season Thread

Originally Posted by NoChiInChamp

I think a realistic Braves deal for Bryant is like...KB for Bryce Wilson, Ender, and Camargo. I think people are underrating how much Bryant's big arb numbers are pressing his trade value down. I also don't think they pull the trigger on a Bryant trade unless they get a major league contributor in it.

Thatís a terrible package
If thatís all KB can get them then just keep him.

Thatís a terrible package
If thatís all KB can get them then just keep him.

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I think they will. I have a hard time seeing any scenario where they get the value they're looking for for Bryant. I also think it might be hard to get a deal they like for Contreras. The return for Narvaez isn't encouraging if we're talking bat-first catchers with framing issues (yes, I know that Willson is a better defensive catcher than Narvaez, but he's still a not insignificant net negative there).

2019 - 2020 Off Season Thread

Originally Posted by NoChiInChamp

I think a realistic Braves deal for Bryant is like...KB for Bryce Wilson, Ender, and Camargo. I think people are underrating how much Bryant's big arb numbers are pressing his trade value down. I also don't think they pull the trigger on a Bryant trade unless they get a major league contributor in it.

Iím not saying you are wrong, because mlb economics are completely out of whack, but thatís gross. Ender is a negative to his own contract. Camargo was one of the worst players in baseball last year. Wilson is a good prospect, but not sure to stay a starter.

I do think itís a little wrong. They should be able to get a 55 FV player and small parts without taking back any negative value for KB. Wilson probably isnít a 55 and the net of Ender and Camargo is negative.

From Atl, I think they should be able to get:
1 of these - Fried, Anderson, Wright, Pache, Waters +
1 of these - Muller, Weigel, Davidson, Shoemake, or similar +
1 near the end of the Atl top 30 or off the top 30 or IFA money.

Iím not saying you are wrong, because mlb economics are completely out of whack, but thatís gross. Ender is a negative to his own contract. Camargo was one of the worst players in baseball last year. Wilson is a good prospect, but not sure to stay a starter.

I do think itís a little wrong. They should be able to get a 55 FV player and small parts without taking back any negative value for KB. From Atl, I think they should be able to get:
1 of these - Fried, Anderson, Wright, Pache, Waters +
1 of these - Muller, Weigel, Davidson, or similar +
1 near the end of the Atl top 30 or off the top 30 or IFA money.

Eh. Inciarte is fine. If we look at DRC+, his bat is pretty much the same as it's always been. There were a couple of IL stints, but he was still above average with the glove by OAA, and he's just a year removed from being pretty elite with it. Camargo had a legit 2018 with the bat, and he's got an option left. I'd hate this return less than the typical fan.

But yeah, I'm really not optimistic a good deal comes together for Bryant, unless an owner loves the idea of a former MVP in his 20s a lot more than not paying that guy a bunch of money for two years. Never bet on that.

2019 - 2020 Off Season Thread

Originally Posted by NoChiInChamp

Eh. Inciarte is fine. If we look at DRC+, his bat is pretty much the same as it's always been. There were a couple of IL stints, but he was still above average with the glove by OAA, and he's just a year removed from being pretty elite with it. Camargo had a legit 2018 with the bat, and he's got an option left. I'd hate this return less than the typical fan.

But yeah, I'm really not optimistic a good deal comes together for Bryant, unless an owner loves the idea of a former MVP in his 20s a lot more than not paying that guy a bunch of money for two years. Never bet on that.

Whatís the point of accepting this return? You can find Ender Inciartes for less than his contract. I donít think Inciarte is better than starting Heyward in CF and getting a bat in RF. Iím not sure Camargo is better than Bote, and Willson is an alright prospect that might end up a reliever. Itís just getting worse without upside.

I think theyíll beat that offer. I donít know if theyíll beat it by enough for them to actually trade him but if this is the top offer for KB then this game is completely broken.

I donít expect they trade top prospects for 30+ players. I do expect they trade at least 1 from the core, maybe 2 for players with low costs and longer control. I do think theyíll sign some mid tier free agents and maybe make a trade using lesser prospects to acquire a mlb level player. Theyíll extend Javy and maybe someone else. They wonít give out a mega FA contract. Theyíll remain on the fringes of competitiveness for 2020 while cutting payroll, locking in a few extensions, moving on from other core players, and theyíll come out of the offseason with a better farm than they have going in. I believe thatís the plan. Wouldnít be my plan, but it sounds like their plan.

That fine , I just dont want to see them trading away a Bryant or Contreras for prospects, then turn around and trade their own prospects to replace them and also their needs in CF 2B RP that are 30+

Whatís the point of accepting this return? You can find Ender Inciartes for less than his contract. I donít think Inciarte is better than starting a Heyward in CF and getting a bat in RF. Iím not sure Camargo is better than Bote, and Willson is an alright prospect that might end up a reliever. Itís just getting worse without upside.

I think theyíll beat that offer. I donít know if theyíll beat it by enough for them to actually trade him but if this is the top offer for KB then this game is completely broken.

I've been explicitly saying I don't think he'll get dealt because this is the kind of offer I think they get.

2019 - 2020 Off Season Thread

I've been explicitly saying I don't think he'll get dealt because this is the kind of offer I think they get.

If you are right, and I donít really think you are, then not only would the Cubs be idiots to accept it, but it would be a terrible waste to not as try to trade for Lindor or Betts.

We probably disagree on Inciarte and Camargoís value some, but the best offer for KB being something like a 50 FV prospect, a salary dump CF, and a backup IF maybe worse than Bote isnít close. I agree that the best offers will be less than people here expect and less than KBís performance warrants, but not that much less.

If this is the value for KB then letís keep him and ****ing go get 1 year of Betts or 2 years of Lindor.

Iím not saying you are wrong, because mlb economics are completely out of whack, but thatís gross. Ender is a negative to his own contract. Camargo was one of the worst players in baseball last year. Wilson is a good prospect, but not sure to stay a starter.

I do think itís a little wrong. They should be able to get a 55 FV player and small parts without taking back any negative value for KB. Wilson probably isnít a 55 and the net of Ender and Camargo is negative.

From Atl, I think they should be able to get:
1 of these - Fried, Anderson, Wright, Pache, Waters +
1 of these - Muller, Weigel, Davidson, Shoemake, or similar +
1 near the end of the Atl top 30 or off the top 30 or IFA money.

playing off this idea, rather than this I would like the following:

Fried as the centerpiece, one of Pache or Waters as a second piece, Wilson a third AND Inciarte. I am viewing Inciarte as a negative and a reason the Cubs get more. I do not understand how anyone can consider Inciarte a positive. If the Cubs have to add something like a guy near the bottom of their top 30, I am ok with that. But to me this has to be a sort of return. And if they don't get that or better, then keep KB. I am not at all opposed to that. I think they can win in 2020, without making a major deal.

I think they will. I have a hard time seeing any scenario where they get the value they're looking for for Bryant. I also think it might be hard to get a deal they like for Contreras. The return for Narvaez isn't encouraging if we're talking bat-first catchers with framing issues (yes, I know that Willson is a better defensive catcher than Narvaez, but he's still a not insignificant net negative there).

Rendon and JD need to sign before KB value will rise, in my opinion. Phil is all in on Rendon, with JD as a backup plan. If they miss on both, they should be the team to deal with.

Iím not saying you are wrong, because mlb economics are completely out of whack, but thatís gross. Ender is a negative to his own contract. Camargo was one of the worst players in baseball last year. Wilson is a good prospect, but not sure to stay a starter.

I do think itís a little wrong. They should be able to get a 55 FV player and small parts without taking back any negative value for KB. Wilson probably isnít a 55 and the net of Ender and Camargo is negative.

From Atl, I think they should be able to get:
1 of these - Fried, Anderson, Wright, Pache, Waters +
1 of these - Muller, Weigel, Davidson, Shoemake, or similar +
1 near the end of the Atl top 30 or off the top 30 or IFA money.

I like the first one. But because we don't need to trade our star third baseman, I'm not making the deal without, Fried, and two from the group of, Anderson, Wright, Waters, or Pache. I'd rather keep KB than sell him short for the sake of making a trade.

I like the first one. But because we don't need to trade our star third baseman, I'm not making the deal without, Fried, and two from the group of, Anderson, Wright, Waters, or Pache. I'd rather keep KB than sell him short for the sake of making a trade.

This is interesting to me. In one post several pages back you agreed with me that some fans overvalue Cubs players. And now this is exactly what you are doing. There is not a chance at this sort of return. Basically just say you don't want to trade KB. Yet, you are also the one who is very excited for this off season and trades to be made. Your views are very contradictory.

If you are right, and I donít really think you are, then not only would the Cubs be idiots to accept it, but it would be a terrible waste to not as try to trade for Lindor or Betts.

We probably disagree on Inciarte and Camargoís value some, but the best offer for KB being something like a 50 FV prospect, a salary dump CF, and a backup IF maybe worse than Bote isnít close. I agree that the best offers will be less than people here expect and less than KBís performance warrants, but not that much less.

If this is the value for KB then letís keep him and ****ing go get 1 year of Betts or 2 years of Lindor.