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and you should stop letting it bother you. People have directed the same thing at me Marco and hey it makes me laugh like hell. Never ever once on this forum have I trounced into a thread proclaiming to be straight. Nope... and everyone here is well aware how I was infected because I told them my very first ever AM post. May catch some flack for this, but I am of the thinking that if you did it just once don't brag about being straight cuz your not.

With that said I like pussy. I tried dick once and I failed at it and got my ass beat in some strangers bedroom. I can laugh about it now... two dicks swinging in the dark until he connected that beautiful upper cut!!! LMAO Now of course this is the first time I've shared this with the forum as a whole, but Bucko got a laugh out of it when I told him 4 years ago and so did my beautiful wife three years ago.

Marco, when it boils down to it your sexuality only matters to one person and that is yourself. At the same time what they are referring to in this thread is not just made up for conversation's sake. It's real my man and those that take offense of it easily are equally viewed easily with suspicion... brother, it is what it is.

It doesn't 'bother'me. I've just decided that each time I see it to call it out. This is the same reaction I have when I hear people make racist comments, sexist comments and homophobic comments. Each time I hear or see these I call attention to them.

I know just how real this issue is. Please look further at my previous post. I've lived with HIV for over 18 years now and had ample opportunity to see this dynamic played out over and over again. As for those who take 'offense'--isn't that a bit like saying "come on, lighten up' to a Gay man after a straight man tells a homophobic joke?

and you should stop letting it bother you. People have directed the same thing at me Marco and hey it makes me laugh like hell. Never ever once on this forum have I trounced into a thread proclaiming to be straight. Nope... and everyone here is well aware how I was infected because I told them my very first ever AM post. May catch some flack for this, but I am of the thinking that if you did it just once don't brag about being straight cuz your not.

With that said I like pussy. I tried dick once and I failed at it and got my ass beat in some strangers bedroom. I can laugh about it now... two dicks swinging in the dark until he connected that beautiful upper cut!!! LMAO Now of course this is the first time I've shared this with the forum as a whole, but Bucko got a laugh out of it when I told him 4 years ago and so did my beautiful wife three years ago.

Marco, when it boils down to it your sexuality only matters to one person and that is yourself. At the same time what they are referring to in this thread is not just made up for conversation's sake. It's real my man and those that take offense of it easily are equally viewed easily with suspicion... brother, it is what it is.

ROFL, maybe you should have picked someone not so butch Tom. Tom you should see two dicks with glo in the dark condoms on. Now that is funny.

I know just how real this issue is. Please look further at my previous post. I've lived with HIV for over 18 years now and had ample opportunity to see this dynamic played out over and over again. As for those who take 'offense'--isn't that a bit like saying "come on, lighten up' to a Gay man after a straight man tells a homophobic joke?

Hmm... I guess kinda, but you know Marco this is about the only.... and I do mean only situation where a straight male can cry foul. As for those homophobic jokes, that goes on whether HIV exist or not. It's just not the same thing....

ROFL, maybe you should have picked someone not so butch Tom. Tom you should see two dicks with glo in the dark condoms on. Now that is funny.

This may be true, and I will tell you this I have respect for women who can endure the pain of labor and you guys that can endure anal. Because of my experience I would never beg my wife to overcome her fear of it.. Funny thing was about 3-4 weeks later, I was in the ER (undiagnosed seroconversion) and the doctor wanted to check something by way of my ass... she stuck her finger in my ass and HOLY MOTHER OF JESUS.. and I told her, "That was the second most painful experience I've had in a month".

Looking back on it I was checked for every form of cancer known to man... I was told I had diseases that are named after rare frogs in the Amazon even, however I was never given a HIV test. Probably could have saved my insurance company a bundle by way of a simple Elisa.

bug chasers do exists I'm being pursued by two guys online who say they are sero-. I can't know if that is true or not, I do know the guys are real. Also they do know I am undetectable. So is that a ball less bug-chaser, finally? Pretends to risk when there is little? Anyhow, I think its ridiculous and sad fetishization of a notorious virus and bankrupt identity.

Logged

ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Sure, some people get HIV after one sexual exposure -- but the odds of that are actually quite small. To get your odds above 50% you need to keep reinvesting your time in sex. Jeez, think of all that time wasted getting pounded when one could have been exploring one's true interests -- like vacuuming or decoupage or (shudder) model trains... Whereas one carefully chosen blood transfusion and it's almost guaranteed!

Sarcasm aside, my point was that people may accept the risk of acquiring HIV as part of sex, but they are in it for the sex rather than the bug.

And hence my comment that most were bug chasers either 'consciously or sub-consciously'. the mere fact that one was getting themselves pounded again and again withot protection but knowing the risks seems to sugggest to me that they were in it for more than just the sex. they may not have being doing it consciously but then end result was the same. If it was just for the sex, you would have protected yourself from all the possible nasties, but you kept at it until the inevitible happened. Classic self destructive behaviour.

That's ridiculous. The only person I've every had unprotected sex with was my xbf. I just wanted to make that very clear. I wasn't chasing HIV subconsciously. That's kind of offensive to even suggest that I was. He tried to say he didn't give it to me right after he told me that he had it also when he was trying to get me to be with him. His weird and awkward comments about we have to stay together forever now make sense. I always wondered why he would always stress that or say it in a weird way. Now I know. Sigh!

IMHO, anyone that contracted this virus through unprotected sex since we have known that to be the major mode of transmission, was either consciously or sub-consiously seeking out HIV and other illnesses.

the mere fact that one was getting themselves pounded again and again withot protection but knowing the risks seems to sugggest to me that they were in it for more than just the sex.

that's a rather limited world-view you have there. Don't forget, queers are just people too.

Returning to your original protagonist of "anyone having unprotected sex", what we're discussing is just sex then, a biological drive. do you think all those little 16 yr old girls out there getting boffed by their boyfriends are trying to chase the bug and pick up HIV? hell, they aren't even thinking about getting the clap or crabs, much less getting HIV. More importantly they're not even thinking about getting pregnant. Scary thought though isn't that? That every pregnancy could have just as easily been an HIV infection.

Average people (whether straight, gay or all ranges in-between) having unprotected sex aren't looking to get infected or impregnated; they're just looking to get their rocks off. Bug-chasers are a psychological abnormality.

It doesn't 'bother'me. I've just decided that each time I see it to call it out. This is the same reaction I have when I hear people make racist comments, sexist comments and homophobic comments. Each time I hear or see these I call attention to them.

I know just how real this issue is. Please look further at my previous post. I've lived with HIV for over 18 years now and had ample opportunity to see this dynamic played out over and over again. As for those who take 'offense'--isn't that a bit like saying "come on, lighten up' to a Gay man after a straight man tells a homophobic joke?

Okay, I'm confused. Are you saying the joke I made about the Craig's list ads was homophobic? Because I certainly didn't mean it that way. I guess a lot my gay friends (mostly my lesbian friends, I haven't really talked to much to my guy gay friends about it) are from the school of thought that a person is either gay or straight - there's no in between, none of that "bi-sexual" stuff. So that's kind of what I've always thought, too. Now, over the years I've started to think that maybe women's sexuality is a little more fluid than that, but for some reason I have always thought of men as being one way or the other, but I'm willing to be open-minded on that subject. Especially when I read about the sexual exploits of that bitter once hot old queen Rupert Everett. He seems to have no problem satisfying either sex. Also it gives me hope that I may still have a chance with him, even if he has literally turned his once beautiful face inside out. I would still hit that. With a condom of course. My boyfriend doesn't have to know. But seriously, no one knows more about their own sexuality than themselves, so there's really no need to get all worked up if someone questions it. But I do apologize if I hurt anyone's feelings by any statements that I've made. I'm really starting to love this board & the people on it, & I check it every day regardless of whether I'm posting or not, so I don't want anyone to be upset by anything I've said.

And on the subject of people who have unprotected sex subconsciously trying to contract HIV, well, that's just pure bullshit. Unless someone is knowingly & deliberately trying to contract the virus, the main reason people have unprotected sex is simply because of plain old carelessness & apathy. They're of the mindset that "it won't happen to me". It's really no more different than someone driving too fast & not paying attention to the road or not using sunscreen. They sure as hell weren't trying to crash their cars or get skin cancer, but they do anyway just by simply being careless. But that's just my opinion.

And from now on I will do my best not to offend anyone or make jokes about Craig's List ads.

And hence my comment that most were bug chasers either 'consciously or sub-consciously'. the mere fact that one was getting themselves pounded again and again withot protection but knowing the risks seems to sugggest to me that they were in it for more than just the sex. they may not have being doing it consciously but then end result was the same. If it was just for the sex, you would have protected yourself from all the possible nasties, but you kept at it until the inevitible happened. Classic self destructive behaviour.

So you are saying that throughout history (OK - at least the history since the germ theory was established), that everyone who has ever gotten an STD was really in it for the disease -- not the sex?? That seems a bit absurd to me. Sometimes people are simply careless, lazy, "in love"or most likely -- not thinking about diseases at all, but rather about the dick or pussy that is in front of them. People like sex not too many that I know like diseases.

And hence my comment that most were bug chasers either 'consciously or sub-consciously'. the mere fact that one was getting themselves pounded again and again withot protection but knowing the risks seems to sugggest to me that they were in it for more than just the sex. they may not have being doing it consciously but then end result was the same. If it was just for the sex, you would have protected yourself from all the possible nasties, but you kept at it until the inevitible happened. Classic self destructive behaviour.

Your comment implicitly assumes that the risks were equally known to everyone prior to infection and that the future course of treatment was known as well. In fact it sorta reeks of assumptions that everyone else approached this just the same way you did.

You know, from your postings on these forums you seem like a genuinely nice fellow who tries to live by his sig motto (Be forgiving, be grateful, be optimistic). So one hesitates to say something that you might perceive as rude. But ... seriously ... have you considered that perhaps your view says more about your own unresolved concerns about how you personally were infected than it does about everyone else?

Personally I've done my share of taking myself to task for getting infected -- for not knowing enough about HIV, for being careless, for being overly optimistic about whether it would be cured and (getting really close to the core here) being unwilling to negotiate the topic of safer sex if I thought it might lead to rejection. But subconcious desires for an uncertain potential disease? Nope. No matter how much I probe my motivations it just isn't there.

And it sounds like you get this reaction from a lot of people -- so ... maybe ... you might want to explore it in more depth as to what it means personally.

Your comment implicitly assumes that the risks were equally known to everyone prior to infection and that the future course of treatment was known as well. In fact it sorta reeks of assumptions that everyone else approached this just the same way you did.

You know, from your postings on these forums you seem like a genuinely nice fellow who tries to live by his sig motto (Be forgiving, be grateful, be optimistic). So one hesitates to say something that you might perceive as rude. But ... seriously ... have you considered that perhaps your view says more about your own unresolved concerns about how you personally were infected than it does about everyone else?

Personally I've done my share of taking myself to task for getting infected -- for not knowing enough about HIV, for being careless, for being overly optimistic about whether it would be cured and (getting really close to the core here) being unwilling to negotiate the topic of safer sex if I thought it might lead to rejection. But subconcious desires for an uncertain potential disease? Nope. No matter how much I probe my motivations it just isn't there.

And it sounds like you get this reaction from a lot of people -- so ... maybe ... you might want to explore it in more depth as to what it means personally.

SincerelyA

Ass,

You could have just simply stated that you did not like condoms, but then again that would not have had the desired effect. Not to be provoked by his sig line but I would like to come to Steve's defense here, and Steve you can go against your nice sig line image and be as brutal as your Aussie blood allows if I am wrong.

Point is we all knew HIV existed... we knew the risks and whether we thought "it wouldn't happen to me"or not , it did. Who are we to judge if a person is a bug chaser or not? Hell most of us wouldn't even get routinely tested but by golly we sure do push the issue now don't we?

See, we all get on our moral high horses on this one. Me, a bug chaser, never. Yet we all knew the possible consequences of unprotected sex. I'm quite comfortable with my opinion on this. Methinks everyone else doth protest too much.

See, we all get on our moral high horses on this one. Me, a bug chaser, never. Yet we all knew the possible consequences of unprotected sex. I'm quite comfortable with my opinion on this. Methinks everyone else doth protest too much.

Great to see you have such deep insight into how the 32 million adults living today with HIV/AIDS got that way.

Point is we all knew HIV existed...Hell most of us wouldn't even get routinely tested

just like fearless assumed that people have sex to get infected (though I still think most people have sex for fun or to get pregnant), now you're making some bad assumptions.

When I was probably infected around 82 or 83, this disease didn't even have a name. (Just another reason we weren't bug chasers, fearless, as we didn't even know there was a damn bug to chase ) None of my friends were getting tested regularly either cause the tests weren't even available until 85-87. To be honest most people I knew then weren't getting tested much anyway - with no meds to speak of, who wanted a test that was just going to tell you that you'd be dead within 18 month. Looking in the mirror was enough to know whether you had it or not.

just like fearless assumed that people have sex to get infected (though I still think most people have sex for fun or to get pregnant), now you're making some bad assumptions.

When I was probably infected around 82 or 83, this disease didn't even have a name. (Just another reason we weren't bug chasers, fearless, as we didn't even know there was a damn bug to chase ) None of my friends were getting tested regularly either cause the tests weren't even available until 85-87. To be honest most people I knew then weren't getting tested much anyway - with no meds to speak of, who wanted a test that was just going to tell you that you'd be dead within 18 month. Looking in the mirror was enough to know whether you had it or not.

i noted that in my original post when i said, us that have been infected since we knew that sex was the main route of tranmsission. as you noted, you couldn't be a bug chaser before then.

When I was probably infected around 82 or 83, this disease didn't even have a name. (Just another reason we weren't bug chasers, fearless, as we didn't even know there was a damn bug to chase ) None of my friends were getting tested regularly either cause the tests weren't even available until 85-87. To be honest most people I knew then weren't getting tested much anyway - with no meds to speak of, who wanted a test that was just going to tell you that you'd be dead within 18 month. Looking in the mirror was enough to know whether you had it or not.

Pleatherman,

Do you really think I am referring to people before we even knew what it was, or are you just trying to stir the pot? I mean seriously......

And you're a liar... that was one nasty ass glory hole. I just hope you kept the receipt. You do know if you call that 1-800 number on the back, you can get a free roastbeef cheesemelt with an extra package of Horsey Sauce!

IMHO, anyone that contracted this virus through unprotected sex since we have known that to be the major mode of transmission, was either consciously or sub-consiously seeking out HIV and other illnesses.

thank you for that clarification. I think I was reading it as if there was a comma after the words "unprotected sex"

which led me to interpret your phrase "since we have known that to be the major mode of transmission" modifiying/explaining "unprotected sex"; instead of say IV transmission being the major mode

I did not read it as "unprotected sex" from the time "since we have known that (ie unprotected sex) to be the major mode of transmission"

Do you really think I am referring to people before we even knew what it was, or are you just trying to stir the pot? I mean seriously......

between some of the funny comments, sarcastic comments and one liners, I'm just not certain anymore. obviously I have just misunderstood that y'all are using words like "anyone" to mean only gays (cause you'll never get me to believe all those straights having unprotected sex and knowing that is a major mode of HIV transmission are doing it to chase the bug) and "everyone" to mean certain people after some point in time.

I'm just going to blame it on this headache that I've had for a week (probably a freaking tumor ) and just back out of the thread. y'all go ahead and chat away.

See, we all get on our moral high horses on this one. Me, a bug chaser, never. Yet we all knew the possible consequences of unprotected sex. I'm quite comfortable with my opinion on this. Methinks everyone else doth protest too much.

We all knew the possible consequences of unprotected sex with someone who isn't HIV positive and someone who is HIV positive. Your post assumes we already knew the person had HIV and decided not to wear a condom anyway.

What is the point of this thread? To say we were all bug chasers? And that some of us are now probably gift givers?Or, to discuss if bug chasers exist? I hope its the latter.

You know, its clear there is a group of people who very specifically want to get infected with HIV, and they are called "bug chasers", and I think it is RIDICULOUS to say that millions and milions of HIV+ people are in the same category.

If "you" (anyone) thinks they got HIV from a urge - known or unknown - to get HIV - fine and dandy, live with it, and no one is gonna judge you! Just don't assume everyone HIV+ had the same experience.

I have had miscellaneous STD'S over 20 years before I got HIV and i never had the URGE to get those STDs.

I have once or twice way overspent on my credit card without the URGE to be broke.

I have committed so many spontaneous acts of stupidity and cruelty, kindness and generosity and brilliance, without always having some urge to have to deal with the consequences of such actions.

« Last Edit: December 15, 2009, 11:49:42 AM by mecch »

Logged

ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

IMHO, anyone that contracted this virus through unprotected sex since we have known that to be the major mode of transmission, was either consciously or sub-consiously seeking out HIV and other illnesses. I know most don't share my opinion, but don't really care what you think.

You don't want my opinion so I won't share it with you. I am curious however if in your world there is any way for a person to have children without it being a death wish or involving a test tube.

What is the point of this thread? To say we were all bug chasers? And that some of us are now probably gift givers?Or, to discuss if bug chasers exist? I hope its the latter.

You know, its clear there is a group of people who very specifically want to get infected with HIV, and they are called "bug chasers", and I think it is RIDICULOUS to say that millions and milions of HIV+ people are in the same category.

If "you" (anyone) thinks they got HIV from a urge - known or unknown - to get HIV - fine and dandy, live with it, and no one is gonna judge you! Just don't assume everyone HIV+ had the same experience.

I have had miscellaneous STD'S over 20 years before I got HIV and i never had the URGE to get those STDs.

I have once or twice way overspent on my credit card without the URGE to be broke.

I have committed so many spontaneous acts of stupidity and cruelty, kindness and generosity and brilliance, without always having some urge to have to deal with the consequences of such actions.

I agree -- it is unclear to me why the acquisition of HIV is fetishized, while other STD's or other examples of taking risks that did not work out (speeding, crossing the street without looking) etc are not thought to necessarily exemplify a death wish.

Fearless, I apologize if you thought I was suggesting you were yourself a bug chaser -- I was instead suggesting that this exalting of HIV risk taking to a different level than other risk taking was perhaps an idea worth exploring -- I'm sorry if it was rude.

You don't want my opinion so I won't share it with you. I am curious however if in your world there is any way for a person to have children without it being a death wish or involving a test tube.

Hye Sorry Ford, that was a poor use of English on my behalf. I actually meant that I don't really care what people thought about my opinion, not that i didn't care for others opinions on the matter. Sorry it came across that way. Re-reading my post, it sounds somewhat offensive and dismissive of others opinions, I didn't mean that.

Assurbanipal, I've been meaning to get back to you. No offense taken at all. I have no illusions as to how I ended up with this bug. In fact, it is my matter of fact and pragmatic views on this that seem to get under peoples collars.