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Finrot and white spot.

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Hello,
I got a 200 litre tank with quite some fish in it and recently i discovered that my fish were starting to have white spot so i decided to treat it and it was succesful, however two weeks later it came back and some of my fish also started to show signs of finrot.
About five days ago my fish started showing signs of white spot again and i immediately started treating it and to make it worse they also started having finrot so i found another medicine that was compitable with the medicine i used for treating the white spot.
It's been five days since i first started treating the white spot but it doesn't seem to go away and i was wondering if this is normal since i don't know how long it approx. takes for white spot to heal.
The fish that are suffering most are my neon tetras and pencilfish but since yesterday my ram cichlids also started showing signs of white spot but my corys, harlequin barbs and other fish don't show any signs of illness.
Am i over exaggerating or do i need to take further action, if so what should i do?
One of my ram cichlids also started to have a blood coloured "stain" just behind the gills and i can't seem to find anything about what it could be.
And another thing that might be worth saying is that none of my fish are showing any signs of stress and the temperature is usually around 25-26 degrees celcius and my filter is turned off because of the activated carbon it has inside it, should i remove the carbon and turn the filter back on?

+ to the above questions and turning on your filter. (see below about the carbon)

Additional questions: what is your water change schedule? as in how often do you change the water and how much do you change? How long has this tank been running with fish?

White spot (ich) is not gone when you see the last spot. it can lie dormant for several days after therefore you must continue treatment.
In the meantime, depending on your stock, I would suggest treatment as follows: do a HUGE water change - the biggest you can make to get all the medication out of there. Add the carbon back in to further reduce any left over medication. gradually turn the heat up to 86F degrees and add an air stone to increase oxygenation - leave the water level lower than usual. Once you see the last white spot (this may take several days for the heat to kill the ich protozoan) , leave the temp at 86F for 7 - 10 more days.

Since you are also seeing signs of fin rot (which indicates poor water quality) I would continue to make daily 50% water changes (clean water is the best cure for fin rot) taking care to always replace the water with water at 86F so you maintain a constant temp. I'd also thoroughly vac the substrate ever 3 days during treatment. after the extra 7 -10 days of high heat, gradually reduce your temp.
don't use any medication during this period. Also use a good dechlorinator at every water change and use enough to treat the entire 200L tank.

please do answer the questions we asked so we will have a better idea of what's going on.
good luck

esha2000.jpg
This is what i've been using together with a similar product for "ich", most people on different forums are saying that it's aged and that it doesn't work anymore?
I've tested my water, as always with test strips and they tell me there's nothing wrong with my water, i got approx. 20 Paracheirodon innesi , 10 Nannostomus beckfordi , 6 Trigonostigma heteromorpha, 4 Corydoras albino, 2 Megalechis picta, 5 Carnegiella strigata, 2 Mikrogeophagus ramirezi.
So that's approx 50 fish in my tank.
I've already removed the carbon and started cycling my filter, it's too late to do a massive water change so i'll do that first thing tomorrow, any other advice?

test strips are notoriously unreliable. you should be using an API master liquid test kit. Test your ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. don't worry about ph or hardness at this point.
I can't tell what that produce is in the picture. please advise what it says it does. does it dechlorinate water?
You did not say how often you change your water or how much you change. Please advise.
Also, do you regularly vacuum your substrate?
Also, we need to know how long your tank has been set up so we can tell if it's cycled or not.
Did you add all fish at once? If not, how many at a time and how often since you started.
Please give a concise history of this tank including what type and size of filtration and answer all of the other questions that have been posed. And you said you 'started cycling your filter'. What does that mean?
Without all the info it's like shooting in the dark. once we know, we can better advise. in the meantime, I'd go with my earlier post and do those daily water changes, add dechlorinator, up the heat and add the air stone.

I can't give you any details about the medicine at the moment but i will later, i change my water around once every two weeks.
I haven't vacuumed my substrate yet but i will in the near future, my tank has been set up for about 7 weeks i think, i cycled it about 3 weeks before adding any fish to it, i did not add all fish at once i would say i had 3-4 seperate purchases.
The filter i'm using is nothing special really it's a medium sized filter inside my tank which should do 200-400 litre an hour and it contains a green spunge with activated carbon inside it and by saying i cycled it i meant i turned it back on.
This morning i noticed alot of the ich and finrot was starting to go away and i did a huge water change early today and they seem happy about it, they seem more active and healthier.
I will have to provide you with the water values later because i was planning to get a test kit but i had some bills to take care of so i will have to buy that later together with the vacuum.

I can't give you any details about the medicine at the moment but i will later, i change my water around once every two weeks.As a basic routine, you should be changing your water at least 50% every week. Even if your tank was not so heavily stocked, 50% water changes are advisable. additionally, the only additive you need to the water is a good dechlorinator - such as seachams prime. If your product is a dechlorinator then you're good to go. just make certain that with each water change, no matter how large or small that you use enough of the water conditioner to treat the entire 200 liters of water
I haven't vacuumed my substrate yet but i will in the near future, cycled tanks should be vac'd at least every other week as regular maintenance. you do not need a special vac, just your regular siphon/water changer which should allow you to sink the siphon end into the substrate and remove most of the fish waste. if you are using buckets to remove the water then yes, you need a hose and siphon. (side note: during the cycling process (and you are still cycling) we advise not to vac as beneficial bacteria is growing in your substrate. However, a light vac that does not disturb the substrate but sucks up the poo and any extra fish food will not hurt.) Again, once your tank is cycled, vac weekly or bi weekly depending on how much waste is present.
my tank has been set up for about 7 weeks i think, i cycled it about 3 weeks before adding any fish to it.and by saying i cycled it i meant i turned it back on.cycling a tank is a precise process that can be done either with or without fish. merely turning on the filter and running it for 3 weeks does not cycle your tank. please read the information in the stickie in my signature line the explains the cycling process with fish. Most of your issues are a result of having all of those fish in an uncycled tank. as I stated in previous posts, the way you fix that is by monitering your water perimiters with an API liquid test kit and making lots of large water changes until you have enough beneficial bacteria established in your filter to support the bioload of 50 fish in a 200 liter tank. while your tank is cycling, you are aiming for ammonia and nitrites to get no higher than .25 ppm. once your cycle is complete, your ammonia and nitrites will read 0ppm consistently and your goal for nitrates is between 10 - 20 ppm

i did not add all fish at once i would say i had 3-4 seperate purchases. for future reference, that's a lot of fish to add in a very short 7 week period - especially into an uncycled tank. again, this has contributed to the issues you are experiencing now
The filter i'm using is nothing special really it's a medium sized filter inside my tank which should do 200-400 litre an hour and it contains a green spunge with activated carbon inside it without specifics, I would say your tank is under filtered. most here on the forum use double the filtration recommended for their tank size. you could purchase an inexpensive sponge filter that sits at the bottom of your tank with an air hose running through it to help clean and establish an additional bacterial colony to help support the bioload of your current stock.
This morning i noticed alot of the ich and finrot was starting to go away and i did a huge water change early today and they seem happy about it, they seem more active and healthier.glad to hear that but you need to keep on top of those daily water changes to get this tank healthy again. after you read the stickie about cycling with fish you will hopefully have a clearer picture of the biological process. once your tank is cycled and the fin rot is cleared up, you can make do with weekly 50% water changes as long as you up your filtration and vac the gravel regularly.
I will have to provide you with the water values later because i was planning to get a test kit but i had some bills to take care of so i will have to buy that later together with the vacuum.

understood. there are a lot of incidental expenses that come up at start up. It's good to know you are actively seeking solutions to your problems and I hope this information has helped as you go forward. never hesitate to ask questions - no matter how inconsequential they may seem.
One more note - do not touch your filter or filter media during this cycling process even if you feel it's dirty. that 'dirt' is beneficial bacteria growing on your sponge and in your filter. you do not want to disturb it. Even after you achieve a cycle, do NOT change out your sponge, If it's a bit gunky, simply rinse it lightly in water you've removed from the tank. NEVER rinse it in tap water as the chlorine will kill all the BB you've worked so hard to grow.
Again - continue to ask question but DO read the stickie on cycling. click on the link in the last line of my signature line.
Once you get the tank cycled and the ich and fin rot straightened away, you'll want to search google for the profiles on your stock to see if you might want to consider rehoming some of them due to full growth size and compatibility.