Bloomberg: "Microsoft, which has tightly controlled the number of ARM-based devices it is supporting at first to ensure quality, opted not to work with HTC after initial discussions with the company, said two people familiar with the matter. The world's largest software maker decided HTC didn't have the sales volume needed and had less tablet experience than some of the other vendors it could choose to work with for the first round of devices, the people said." HTC was the first company to build a Microsoft-powered smartphone. Now, they're not allowed to build Windows 8 tablets.

HTC was the first phone maker to agree to pay extortion money to Microsoft for their unspecified "intellectual property" in Android. And their thanks for kowtowing is that MS won't let them build a Windows 8 phone.

Perhaps HTC is better off. They have a huge market share here in Taiwan, as they are a local company. I'd be happy to see Windows 8 NOT come here.

I wish that the Taiwanese government had some backbone and stopped using MS products. I use Linux and live in Taiwan, and though I offer to install Linux to all my Taiwanese friends I find few takers. No one here has even heard of Linux. Windows is shoveled down everyone's throat. All government offices and schools use it exclusively, and pay big bucks for MS Office, even though they could get Libreoffice (Windows version as well) for free. Our banks require that you log into their online banking with Windows.

In other words, Microsoft pretty much owns this place, but thank goodness we still don't have Windows 8 phones, for now.

"HTC engineers wanted to build a Windows device with a customized home screen that would be distinctive to its devices, as manufacturers are allowed to do with Android. Redmond, Washington-based Microsoft refused, said the people, and HTC was left off the list of companies the software maker provided with early versions of the software."

This is hardly Microsoft just being flat out evil and saying "No soup for you!". This isn't Android, and you can't fault MS for wanting a consistent interface across their Windows 8 tablets.

Everyone considers the Google Nexus line as the "pure Android" experience and recommends it based on that fact. Hell, that's the reason I bought my Galaxy Nexus. Yet, when MS tries to ensure such an experience across all their devices, they are evil? Pfft, please.

Actually it seems like you did not read the article, not the parent poster.

MS is ditching HTC because it thinks that HTC do not have the volume of sales that they are expecting to push their tablets into the market which is odd because:

1) As a OS-only company whose platform is struggling to keep the pace and stay in a distant third place from the top contenders, MS cannot afford to ditch hardware partners unless they are really confident that their partnership with Nokia will really pay off (highly unlikely given the current state of affairs!)

... and...

2) HTC has been a MS strong supporter since day one, building and selling Windows Mobile devices, putting out some of the first WP7 phones when almost nobody else would, bending over to their bullshit patent racketeering with Android and is a brand that slowly built its mindshare among smartphone consumers.

The home screen thing is just grasping at straws and something that could have been worked out during negotiation. Nope. MS is sending a message to HTC saying that they really appreciate their smartphone business but stay the fuck off our tablet business!

Perhaps MS do not consider them big enough to warrant allocating the engineering resources to assist them to build the devices and that this would be better spent with Samsung and the likes but even it is really the case it still sounds like a slap in the face of one of your best friends and the kind of thing that may bite them in back in the future...

The home screen thing is just grasping at straws and something that could have been worked out during negotiation.

Which is a load of crap - HTC wanted to take the operating system and turn it into something that is uniquely HTC whilst Microsoft wished to maintain a consistent look and feel across the multiple devices on offer. Microsoft was never going to compromise - it was a decision that they made for Windows Phone 7 when they first launched it so it is hardly surprising that they would keep the same policy through to Windows Phone 8 and Windows RT.

btw, there is no need to 'brand' your phones when you phones are actually good enough already and don't need gimmicky crap loaded onto them. The fact that we're in 2012 and HTC is still shipping Windows Phone 7 devices with only 16GB of storage tells me that support Windows Phone 7 has been a complete charade rather than a genuine enthusiasm for the platform. How about HTC launching a Windows Phone 7 device with at least 64GB of storage and then I'll believe that HTC is serious when it comes to supporting Windows Phone 7.

Why would they pour all that energy in a platform only three people and a cow have bought into?

Maybe because you heard that the company was also developing a platform that 300 million cows might soon be buying into?

Why did Fujitsu release a Windows Phone? Because they expected to sell a lot of Windows Phones? Or because the Japanese have the willingness -- that a certain Taiwanese company apparently does not -- to build a long-term business relationship, rather than thinking of every product as an independent decision?

Business goes through cycles -- and not just financial cycles. At some times, entrepreneurs rule. At other points, established companies dominate. Sometimes the fashion is to focus on "core competencies." Other times, the fashion is to "diversify." There was a time when the Japanese way was beating everyone else, and now it's out of fashion. But at some point, the business environment changes, and disadvantages turn into advantages.

Why would they pour all that energy in a platform only three people and a cow have bought into?

I fully understand HTC not giving two shits about WP7.

Yet you ignore the part of the post where I lament the fact that they fail to provide phones with decent size storage and/or expandable storage resulting in people who would consider such a phone turn away because the lack of space. I know for me I would consider a Windows Phone but why would I waste my time if I can get an iPhone with 64GB of storage and the most I can get with a Windows Phone 7 device is 16GB? Don't get me started on Android and the sh-thouse after sales support when it comes to providing timely Android updates and upgrades.

Side note: Due to the crap effort made by phone vendors there is a reason why Apple goes from strength to strength but I'm sure you and your apologists will down vote my post into the next dimension because I dare bring up some uncomfortable truths about the Android ecosystem.

Considering their latest flagship Android phone, the One X, only comes with 16 GB of storage and lacks an SDCard slot of any kind, why would you expect them to build a WP7 phone with more than 16 GB of storage?

Which is entirely useless to me because I'm located in New Zealand hence the reason I provided a link to Telecom NZ and the reason why my profile states that I am located in New Zealand. What AT&T, Rogers, Peters or Freds has to offer is entirely immaterial to the conversation.

Microsoft have chosen to limit the number of OEM they want to partner with at launch. I can only assume that this is so they can put in the quality control at an early stage as a bad launch rep is near impossible to shake.

Look at the companies they are working with Asus and Toshiba. These are companies with hardware experiences And with a foot(leg) in the business markets. This is something HTC simple come nowhere Near matching. All this announcement tells me is Microsoft want to make the first Windows tablets for Business markets. The consumer (HTC) market will be one they can try to break into later.

In my view, HTC are not being snubbed, they are simply not in a position to enter the market Microsoft wants/needs.

Why did everyone use windows at home? Because that's what they used at work.

Microsoft have chosen to limit the number of OEM they want to partner with at launch. I can only assume that this is so they can put in the quality control at an early stage as a bad launch rep is near impossible to shake.

Must be hard for a small startup like MS to provide enough resources for HTC.

Not to mention the whole damned reason they are jamming the awful Win 8 metro "supergigantic smartphone" UI down our throats is they want "One UI to rule them all" which if all the carriers just throw on their own custom skins kinda defeats the entire purpose they have spent all that money coming up with.

While I have no desire to own an ARM based Wintab (If it doesn't run Windows X86 programs I see no advantage in buying one over Android which has a bigger market and more apps) I can see why they would want to have the UI be the same across devices. this way one marketing push covers everyone, people can look at the commercial and know exactly what they are looking at, and it helps them have a consistent brand identity.

So while i may not personally care for it its not like they told HTC to lump it, they offered HTC the same deal everyone else is getting and they refused.

So, since Nokia is pretty much the only Windows Phone manufacturer left (Samsung doesn't count, their focus is on Android these days) and they will likely never release a CDMA device in the U.S., does this mean the HTC Arrive is the end of the road for us Sprint WP7 users? I've read over the past year that Nokia is testing CDMA WP7 devices in China, but as for the U.S. it's all rumors at this point.

I won't go back to Android again for a mobile phone; I tried an Android phone for a few weeks last month and was gagging by the end of the trial, despite the fact that it was supposed to be an excellent device. If I can't get a new Windows phone on Sprint, I'd rather get an iPhone than go back to Android and all of its bugs. I love it on tablets, but on phones it resoundingly stinks. I'm not going to put myself through constant reboots while talking to a customer and texts that never go through.

No OS is without its flaws, but WP7 is still my favorite mobile OS by far since Palm Garnet on a Treo. At least I can conduct business on it without constantly worrying about glitches breaking my workflow.

I won't go back to Android again for a mobile phone; I tried an Android phone for a few weeks last month and was gagging by the end of the trial, despite the fact that it was supposed to be an excellent device. If I can't get a new Windows phone on Sprint, I'd rather get an iPhone than go back to Android and all of its bugs. I love it on tablets, but on phones it resoundingly stinks. I'm not going to put myself through constant reboots while talking to a customer and texts that never go through.

You must be the unluckiest person on the face of the earth, then, to have Android phones behave like that only for you. Bummer.

Well two of the three Android phones I've owned were Motorola, and those two were the worst offenders. The first was the Motorola Cliq, which happened to be Motorola's first Android device, so it somewhat gets a pass. The last phone I've tried is the Motorola Admiral, released less than a year ago and supposedly a business phone through-and-through. Yet it is also plagued with stability issues. It's possible that it's the hardware in the case of the Cliq, as I've tried a couple of CM7 builds in the past and the instability was still present. As there are no alternate ROMs available for the Admiral yet, I can't say for sure on it.

And despite your juvenile, baiting comment, you should really check out the Motorola forums for both phones. I think your eyes will be opened and you won't be so quick to judge. I'm one of a horde of dissatisfied Motorola users who have had the exact same issues with both phones. As I said before, the Cliq gets a pass mostly because it was Motorola's first foray into Android, but they've had two years and over a dozen attempts at making better Android devices; they should have gotten it right by now.

It's not just a Motorola thing either, at least for me. The second Android phone I've used is the HTC-built MyTouch 4G. While it was a better phone by far than the other two, it also had stability issues, specifically when placing a call the dialer would often crash and send me back to the home screen. I had no problems sending texts as with the other two phones, but a day didn't go by without hearing "you never answered me" from someone who had sent me a text. I would then get the texts a day or so later. I never found this particular problem in the HTC forums but the dialer crashing was a common occurrence. Even the update to 2.3 didn't fix these issues, though it did help with Bluetooth A2DP and seemed to make the launcher a bit smoother.

All of the devices you describe above have Android builds that have been heavily modified by the manufacturer. My experience with those has been without exception crappy which is why I stick to Google's devices.

One other point: I haven't used ICS on a phone yet, and since the CM team doesn't seem interested in making a ROM for the Admiral that I still own, I doubt I'll be able to try it out. My budget is limited, and when I bought the Admiral it was a toss-up between it the HTC Shift. My best friend, an Android fan through and though, suggested I should go for the HTC and not the Motorola based on his own experiences, but I decided on the latter since I liked the phone's physical layout better. I was also concerned that there would be no further development for the Shift, and I thought that with the Admiral being a new phone it would be well supported by Motorola. I was wrong about that too.

So I would say the fault is mine this time around for choosing a bad phone, but regardless I'm back on my Arrive and am at peace with my phone once again.

Personally, I wouldn't recommend an HTC phone OR the Motorola! BOTH companies lock the bootloader (at carrier request) so you can't tinker with your own phone! SOME phones get an official "unlock" through HTC, but not the new OneX (or Evo variant). Go with a Samsung, they are much better at keeping things open. If you want the pure stock Android experience without tinkering, go with a Nexus device, if you don't mind a "skin" on top of the OS, go with the new SGS IIIs that are rolling out this month. These new phones are WAY different than the crappy phones you have had experience with!

Just today I took a peek at a coworker's Galaxy Nexus with ICS, it seems very fast and stable. She said she has not had a single issue with it, apart from not being able to figure out how to copy content to her computer (which I showed her how to do).

If I can get enough for my Admiral on a resale, I might just save up the extra needed and get a Nexus. I'd be willing to give Android one more shot based on the five minutes I spent with hers, as well as her responses when I asked her about stability.

You must be the unluckiest person on the face of the earth, then, to have Android phones behave like that only for you. Bummer.

Android haters claim that most people don't choose an android phone. They simply choose a cheap phone and get android. Kind of like how nobody chose Nokia's but simply got them because they were the cheapest... I have no idea how people can seriously believe that

I say that because on a phone, when the dialer crashes or the phone reboots during a call it's a big deal. A phone's primary function is as a communications device, and if it fails at that function it may as well be a brick as far as I'm concerned.

On the other hand, a tablet is a media consumption device. A reboot while watching a TV episode or reading a book is an annoyance, but it's not going to cause you to lose a client due to having to call them back constantly when your phone won't play ball. I loved CM7 on my Nook (gifted to my sister recently), and I've played with several other Android tablets that I really enjoyed too.

The only issue I've had thus far with WP7 is that, on Sprint, it won't automatically split long texts at the 160 character mark. This is a known issue and Sprint and Microsoft are each blaming the other instead of working together to fix it. I suspect the source of the problem is the way CDMA phones handle SMS messages, but to my knowledge WP7 is the only phone OS that Sprint has this specific issue with.

I haven't had a chance to use a Win8 tablet yet, but I have a feeling it might very well be a great experience. I know that I detest Windows 8 on desktops though; if Windows 7 wasn't an option I wouldn't run Windows at all on my home computer.

Haha - man, if you can't find stable HTC device, then I really wonder, who can choose you as an IT consultant? :-) No offence, it is just that I live with HTC for so long, and I never ever seen a dialer crash. So you might be either unlucky, or they ship strange variants to US, or I don't know what. I own HTC Sensation, and HTC One X, and both work like a charm.

And if your kneejerk reaction is to blame the user, I wonder who would choose you as a consultant? Just because you haven't seen it happen doesn't mean it's not true; if that is your world view I'd strongly suggest you learn some humility.

Your Sensation and One X are newer devices than the the MyTouch 4G, and I'm sure you're running ICS on your Sensation right? That alone could make a difference. Just as with the Motorola phones, I'm not the only person in the world with the issues I've described. If you really are a champion of HTC I'm sure you've visited the various forums and seen the reported issues. That is, if you're not blinding yourself in your obvious fanboyism.

I do really like HTC devices, my current phone is HTC and the quality is superb. I have a feeling if I had gone with the HTC Evo Shift instead of the Admiral it would be a different story. To my knowledge the Evo Shift is nearly a clone of the Arrive, minus a few CPU MHz.

And once again I say, just because it's all roses for you doesn't mean it is for everyone. I would think the people who post here would have been immersed in technology long enough to accept that things aren't always 100% perfect.

This elitist "I haven't seen it so it never existed and you're lying" bullshit attitude is getting old, frankly.

Or is every statement of personal experience contradicting to your is now an "elitist" personal attack on you?

I could ask you the same thing, you seem to be taking this quite personally.

You actually stared with a sweeping generalization and I quote: "Android and all of its bugs".

Are you saying that there are no bugs in Android, or that there are less than in other OSes? Because if so, you are highly delusional. I called out specific issues I've been having with the OS, nothing more. In the course of this thread, I've also called out issues I have with WP7, and how I deal with them. But all you hear is "... ...Android bugs... ...".

Now, back to the first point. When I said "This elitist 'I haven't seen it so it never existed and you're lying' bullshit attitude is getting old, frankly" it was directed at several people in this thread who seem to have the attitude of "mine works, you are obviously the problem". When I hear that from all sides even after stating that I've found an Android phone that appears to offer the stability and performance I've been looking for, yeah I'm going to lash out.

But for you to take that as a personal attack and then turn around and hypocritically claim that I act like it's "all about me"? Now that's childish!

My wife has the same amazing ability to kill Android phones, which is unfortunate since she relies heavily on her phone to do her job.

We both had Samsung Captivates with the stock ROM, and after a couple months stuff started crashing. I switch us to the Miui.us ROM, and after a couple of months the force closes started again. We switch phones, and same results. Although the last time was because of the Spotify app.

After the last episode, I bought her a Galaxy Nexus hoping it's a software problem caused by Samsung. The next step for her is an iPhone 5, whenever that is released, if the Nexus starts crashing.

The most aggravating thing is how hard Android phones are to fix. My wife had problems with her Blackberries, but they were at least easy to backup and reinstall.

You may not want to unlock/root the device for your wife but look at the backup function. It will backup apps *and* app data. Backups can be taken even from an encrypted device. Backup files will be encrypted. Restoring the backup to the device after a reset or firmware update is painless.

(ha.. nice.. v1.4 is out.. gotta got update my own install)

I've found the built-in Android backup function handy. It covers OS settings, Google apps and related data. I've found it covers most third party apps but I've had a few restored naked leaving me to repopulate them.

I've also tried the various backup apps (all want to backup to an SD which is no good with the Nexus lacking a removable SD slot). They also tend to only backup the apps not the app data so they rank somewhere around useless for me.

Wug's does it right though. Apps and app data from encrypted or unencrypted device with backup file encrypted and stored on your computer not the Android devices own storage.

If your wife experiences software issues fixed in a later version of Android, you can also upgrade the device from Google's official firmware rather than waiting for your carrier to maybe eventually push ICS 4.0.4 or whatever is current by then. (A big fat WTF to my carrier for still not having pushed the 4.0.4 out for stock devices.. what the hell Rogers?)

You may have less crashes in more tightly controlled environments (iPhone) or envirnments with less (interesting) apps (Windows mobile).

On the contrary, Windows Mobile was very easy to kill. I had an HTC Windows Mobile phone that would freeze up multiple times a day. Even doing a hard reset wouldn't solve it. Finally, I read up on the XDA forums and did a hard reset -- but also skipped the carrier customizations. That left it in a state in which it was running only stock Microsoft code + drivers, the thing would stay up for a month.

That was when I concluded Windows Mobile had no future. Having OEMs preload craplets on Windows PCs is bad enough -- but doing the same thing on a phone, and preventing me from receiving calls? I simply don't have time to baby my phone like I do my computer.

And that was only the carrier preloads! I didn't install anything else on that phone!

Or perhaps you meant Windows Phone. That falls into the iOS category of "tightly controlled."

You're right, it's that tight control that likely leads to the stability and responsiveness of the device. It's a trade-off, and one I'm willing to make when it means the difference between keeping a client satisfied or not. Speaking of, I just got a call from the same client my Admiral had hung up on several times last week, and the first thing she asked was "did you get your phone fixed?" That speaks volumes to me.

I haven't had a crash on the Samsung Captivate either. It was just my wife and her Captivate.

At least the iPhone I have for work can be easily backed up to iTunes or iCloud, so if I have to wipe it it's not as much of a chore to get my data and apps back.

To be quite honest, if a single, non-malicious app can render an OS completely useless, in this case Spotify, then the OS has problems. I can understand the app being crap, but that's no excuse for taking down every other app on the phone.

Androids are easy to fix, ESPECIALLY the Nexus models! You really can't blame anyone for the crashes when you were running MIUI...custom ROMs are prone to crashing...if you want stability, use a stock ROM!

Avoid "free" apps as well. Even the good ones drain battery life to feed you ads to "pay" for the app! Spend the $2-$5 for the app...it's not going to kill your wallet and your phone will thank you! Also, "free" apps are the major source of malware. ONLY buy from trusted developers and PAY ATTENTION to the permissions you grant your apps!

If you keep your phone free of "crapps", you shouldn't have any problems with your wife's Nexus.

Windows Phone is a end regardless of what handset you own or what carrier you are on, and decisions like this...locking out one of only a HANDFUL of companies that supported you when you were struggling, is NOT the way to build hype ahead of a major launch. There are plenty of Titan and Titan II customers who will probably leave the platform when they see this news and realize they can't ever have a tablet to match their phones.

Additionally, there will be plenty of others who are not directly affected who will be turned off by Microsoft's blatant favoritism towards some companies and at the same time snubbing others. It just leaves a bad taste in your mouth supporting a company like this.

It just leaves a bad taste in your mouth supporting a company like this.

Indeed it does, but unfortunately just as with Windows on the desktop, I have to use the tool that works best for me when it comes to putting food on the table. If I didn't use my phone so much for consulting jobs, I'd settle for the most stable Android device I could find since that OS at least will continue being actively supported.

Maybe I should do like the sheriff's office I work full time for did recently: They had so many issues after moving the deputies and detectives to Android phones they scrapped them and went back to ruggedized dumbphones. Now that all the patrol vehicles have MDTs (mobile data terminals) they don't really need smartphones anyway. Once I've worn out this WP7 device maybe I'll go back to using a phone as just a phone and carry a MID for mobile computing.

That is, of course, if there is such a thing as a decent dumbphone left when that time comes.

Windows Phone is a end regardless of what handset you own or what carrier you are on, and decisions like this...locking out one of only a HANDFUL of companies that supported you when you were struggling

They are only excluded from Windows RT, which MS has limited to select CPU/OEM partners (3 of each, IIRC, which had to pair up) initially to ensure quality.

HTC can still ship an x86 based tablet.
And, yes, they have shipped a Windows x86 device previously, the HTC Shift. So it shouldn't be a big deal for them to do so again. http://www.htc.com/www/help/htc-shift/