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Playoffs?? Playoffs??

There's been talk on this site about still making the playoffs...

I dont care about the playoffs unless the team is a legit contender to
win the Eastern title and this team isnt even close..
Make the playoffs as the last seed and get emliminated in the first round
isnt my idea of success....

Ive followed this team for many years.. thru the ups and downs and this
is one of the downs to be sure..

I didnt like Bird as a head coach regardless of his record.. Carlisle led the practices and Bird played "horse" with the players.....
He wasnt a motivator and was lackluster on the sidelines.. He had Mark, Reggie and the rest of a squad that made him look good.
What Donnie saw in him outside of the Larrry Legend Indiana fame is beyond me...

He's more inept as a GM...
Some of you say he's good picking players in the draft.. You cite Granger.
Granger was an easy choice.. He "fell" to the Pacers by the luck of the draft.
Show me all of these other pickups of Bird that have stood out...
He's a farce and I wish the team could see that..

This team has arrived at mediocrity and will stay there for a long long time.
the Only hope is to Bottom Out completely and hope there's a player of great magnitude to draft that year...

I will continue to root for them but they show me nothning....
They're inconsistent and very boring anymore....

When Dunleavy is your go to star you know what time it is and its not showtime....

Re: Playoffs?? Playoffs??

i feel the same way and i honestly dont think trading player after player is helping at some point u look at the front office and there is no direction they changes need to start at the top and move its way down we have had way too much player-turnover to keep blaming the players.

Re: Playoffs?? Playoffs??

I dont care about the playoffs unless the team is a legit contender to win the Eastern title and this team isnt even close..
Make the playoffs as the last seed and get emliminated in the first round
isnt my idea of success....

I think that the primary goal of the Pacers ( at least for this season ) is not only to "simply makes the Playoffs"....but to specifically get the 8th spot in the East. Although...this will more then likely mean that we will play and ( likely ) lose in 5 games to the Celtics.....there maybe some benefits to playing them.

The Celtics not only are the best team in the League right now....they are the most popular team in the League. If the overriding goal of TPTB is to make $$$$ for the Organization by trying to attract fans back to Conseco....what better way to do that then to return to the Playoffs against one of the most popular teams in the League?

Pacer fans may not come to a Playoff to see them lose to a hated team like the Pistons or the Magic.....but I can totally see Indy fans selling out Playoff games just to see them play against a team like the Celtics. We maybe a small bump in the road for the Celtics trip to the ECF.....but playing against the Celtics will bring a lot of good PR and attention to the Pacers Organization.

On top of all this....earning the 8th spot in the East maybe the closest thing we have to having the "Best of Both Worlds". We not only make the Playoffs ( what Bird has stated that he wanted to do since the end of last season ), but we will likely get the 15th pick in the Draft....the best draft pick possible for a team that makes the Playoffs.

I know that this may sound like a strange theory....but there is a reason why Garnett is referred to as "The Big Ticket".

I didnt like Bird as a head coach regardless of his record.. Carlisle led the practices and Bird played "horse" with the players.....
He wasnt a motivator and was lackluster on the sidelines.. He had Mark, Reggie and the rest of a squad that made him look good.
What Donnie saw in him outside of the Larrry Legend Indiana fame is beyond me...

He's more inept as a GM...

Unless we make some serious improvement in the next season.....I think that Bird will not be with us that much longer in the Pacers FO. Any other President of Basketball Operations would have been let go by now for less.

Re: Playoffs?? Playoffs??

i am doubtful as to conseco coming anywhere close to selling out if they played the celts or anyone actually.
the two biggest reasons (i believe) are the constant embarrassment from player actions- i have very tired of it and it just never seems to end. then you have another factor to go with and that is the local population has no faith that this team can do anything except make the playoffs by default in an awful east. this team has absolutley no business in the playoffs as it currently stands.

tinsley will still be tinsley- we will wonder from time to time as whether his most recently missed game was due to a real injury or illness or if it was him just being him. and there are all the other bads like ballhogging and oneupmanship and unnecessarily fancy passes that go awry. jo may miss the whole season and even if he just missed a month or two- i doubt it will matter. i think he has done permanent damage to his body over the last several seasons by coming back too soon and to rest for two weeks or a month really won't make much of a difference. the knees will always be a problem for him for the rest of his career i'm afraid.
i think the locals see a team without any hope. too many bozo's who aren't even mediocre as a team.
i can't look at a team anywhere in the league and say to myself " yeh we should definitely beat them" i can however look at any team and say they either should definitely beat us or certainly have a pretty good shot.
my final regular season prognosis is:
33-49
if that makes the playoffs.... then that's just horrible.

Re: Playoffs?? Playoffs??

I think that the primary goal of the Pacers ( at least for this season ) is not only to "simply makes the Playoffs"....but to specifically get the 8th spot in the East. Although...this will more then likely mean that we will play and ( likely ) lose in 5 games to the Celtics.....there maybe some benefits to playing them.

The Celtics not only are the best team in the League right now....they are the most popular team in the League. If the overriding goal of TPTB is to make $$$$ for the Organization by trying to attract fans back to Conseco....what better way to do that then to return to the Playoffs against one of the most popular teams in the League?

Pacer fans may not come to a Playoff to see them lose to a hated team like the Pistons or the Magic.....but I can totally see Indy fans selling out Playoff games just to see them play against a team like the Celtics. We maybe a small bump in the road for the Celtics trip to the ECF.....but playing against the Celtics will bring a lot of good PR and attention to the Pacers Organization.

On top of all this....earning the 8th spot in the East maybe the closest thing we have to having the "Best of Both Worlds". We not only make the Playoffs ( what Bird has stated that he wanted to do since the end of last season ), but we will likely get the 15th pick in the Draft....the best draft pick possible for a team that makes the Playoffs.

I know that this may sound like a strange theory....but there is a reason why Garnett is referred to as "The Big Ticket".

Unless we make some serious improvement in the next season.....I think that Bird will not be with us that much longer in the Pacers FO. Any other President of Basketball Operations would have been let go by now for less.

This is a good theory, however, the main flaw I see to this is that if we did
end up playing the Celts in the first round and bring fans into Conseco Fieldhouse,
I would wager the majority of those fans would be wearing green with a little
leprechan patch. It's sad to think about, but I've actually already seen this
happen before back at MSA.

We won't be converting anyone over to the Pacer's side, especially after we lose
in lackluster fashion.

Re: Playoffs?? Playoffs??

This is a good theory, however, the main flaw I see to this is that if we did
end up playing the Celts in the first round and bring fans into Conseco Fieldhouse,
I would wager the majority of those fans would be wearing green with a little
leprechan patch. It's sad to think about, but I've actually already seen this
happen before back at MSA.

We won't be converting anyone over to the Pacer's side, especially after we lose
in lackluster fashion.

Again.....you have to look at what the goal of the Pacers FO is....to make $$$$. Whether they are wearing Celtic Green or Blue and Gold....they are spending the same amount of $$$ to get in.

Keep in mind that this is my theory for this season. I really think that JONeal will be moved in the offseason and the same amount and things will ( finally ) change the next season. Unfortunately, I was thinking the same thing over the last offseason and JONeal is still on the roster .

Re: Playoffs?? Playoffs??

It is really mind-blowing how the Pacers are still the eight seed. It goes to show you how bad the East is.

Utah and Houston are 25-18 and not in the playoffs. 25-18. That would be good enough for the fifth seed in the East. Right now (talent wise at least) 10 of the best 13 teams are in the West. The East is a complete joke.

THE PACERS ARE IN THE PLAYOFFS WITH A 19-26 RECORD! A WHOPPING 7 GAMES UNDER .500!

Re: Playoffs?? Playoffs??

It is really mind-blowing how the Pacers are still the eight seed. It goes to show you how bad the East is.

Utah and Houston are 25-18 and not in the playoffs. 25-18. That would be good enough for the fifth seed in the East. Right now (talent wise at least) 10 of the best 13 teams are in the West. The East is a complete joke.

THE PACERS ARE IN THE PLAYOFFS WITH A 19-26 RECORD! A WHOPPING 7 GAMES UNDER .500!

Re: Playoffs?? Playoffs??

Bird can draft. You can knock him for drafting David but I don't considering he was the last pick fo the 1rst round and only maybe 3 players picked after him have turned out to be anything.

Granger did fall to them. But Bird did draft him. 16 other teams passed on him. Regardless you have to give credit where credit is due. Credit is due here.

He picked Shawne Williams. Looks like that should be a good pick. People were asking for Marcus Williams, and me I wanted Rodriguez, Rondo, Farmar or Lowry, but anything I think Shawne is the best of the bunch.

He messed up trading up to get James White. Wait and see on Lorbek and Stanko.

Saras was a bad signing. However Kareem Rush and Travis Diener have turned out nicely so far. Not big names but not big money either.

I have said this before but Larry has been limited to what he has had to work with. Donnie sort of put a team together that made it a mess and now Bird has to deal with the aftermath.

Re: Playoffs?? Playoffs??

stting a goal just to get in the playoffs. pathetic. whether it's about the financial problem this team has or stupidity for the old days it just won't help. expirience? what's the use of it if team is just not good enough so any of players are ready to be shipped/ready to ship out of the pacers. and yet hanging in the 8th seed going to playoffs(which i doubt it won't go for long) but to be swept and end up having 'just' 16th or so picks. pathetic again.
average attendence for the pacers home game is the lowest in the nba. that will not change whatever the front office do. TV comercials, sale, evet even begging. ship out the bad contract(murphleavy, quiz ; even though it seems impossible), stick with the core pieces(uhh...foster and granger? IMO) and bring in some more talented/well suited young players who matches the color of this team(which I'm not so sure what it is). http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/attendance
look at it. even the t-wolves has more average attendance then we do.(even conseco is smaller then target center)

Re: Playoffs?? Playoffs??

Look, I have zero problem with running Bird out on a rail. God knows that as a player I hated him.

But it is just not fair to judge him based on anything yet, other than this season really.

Donnie Walsh was firmly in control of all player movements prior to this year. Yes, he allowed Bird to seek out talent to sign and he let him be heavily involved in the draft. But even with those things, Donnie had to approve.

Now this season it does appear the Larry is actually in charge of the player movement, or lackthereof.

So if this time next season things are not differant, notice I didn't say better, then we should be calling for his head.

But till then I just don't see how anyone can guage how Bird is as a G.M.

Donnie isn't called teflon Don for nothing (ok that's one of the names I call him) because no matter what he does wrong, very few people will actually point to him and say "he's the one".

But in another matter, yes it is pathetic that we are in the playoffs and will have to do some serious losing (yes even more than we have) to miss the playoffs.

Re: Playoffs?? Playoffs??

Thats not a pathetic goal, it's a realistic goal. There's only been 6 different teams win a championship in the last 21 years. Why is that? Because you usually have to have one of the best players in the NBA. Besides that you have to have good luck.

Re: Playoffs?? Playoffs??

He wanted to trade Ron before the brawl, back when he had some trade value. The owners were the ones who wanted to keep him. He made the best he could out of that situation I think.

Saras and James White are the two out and out bad moves that have been made since he was co-GM. A 4mil contract and 3 2nd rounders, you cant say that either of those were catastrophic.

You could argue that signing Harrington for a 1st rounder was a mistake, but there wasn't a whole lot else to do with the TE.

The Golden State trade, sure it has given us Murphy, but Dunleavy is putting up career numbers. Ike might never work out in this system, but alteast he is a tradeable piece. Harrington, Jax and Saras all needed to be moved and there were very few teams who would have even considered taking on Jax.

If Bynum was ever on the table for JO, that would have been a good trade in hindsight. I was one of the people saying hold out for Bynum and Odom. But it seems like LA might never have been willing to give up even Bynum, so it is moot.

All of the first round picks he has made have been solid - excellent.

Verajao, Duhon and Ariza are the only players taken after Harrison who have made any impact on the NBA and none of those players would have majorly altered the course of this franchise.

Re: Playoffs?? Playoffs??

Maybe Bird needs to go to Bill Polian to learn a lesson or two, and learn how to use the draft to achieve sucess. I mean our team is struggling so bad, and with our only pick we draft a guy to send to Europe? WTF?

And wait why didnt we have our #1 pick? Was it Harrington? Or was it James White? What a terrible pick.

This franchise is in ruins and its time they hold people accountable and make real changes. Bird needs to be held accountable. I really think 90 percent of the people on this board could make better roster decisions. Like by not giving up our draft picks and drafting people who are worth something, not people to send Europe, or by making trades that really don't work out. Or have the Pacers abandoned the NBA market and are going to Europe to make their money? LOL.

Youve got 7 rounds in the NFL, and every year some UDFA steps up and makes a contribution. Now its almost apples to oranges till u think about it. How can their only be 60 something basketball players a year worth anything? In the NFL there is hundreds. When it comes to college sports theres just as many good basketball players out there as there are football players. How can the whole world not have a deeper talent pool than 60 a year?

And we can't even draft a contirbutor in the second round! We send guys to Europe or trade and and end up releasing guys who are top 35 picks, Im so sick of it.I hope we loose the rest of our games and get a lottery pick.

Who knows Im sure they'll find a way to draft someoone who really isn't going to make us a better team, unless something drastically changes soon.

Yea Gragner was a great pickup, but could we have benefited more from trading down? Probably. Could have drafted a big and a shooter.

Now in no way do I ever want to trade Danny. We need to build a team around him and maybe Rush and Williams as the 6th man, but still our drafting is horrible.

Re: Playoffs?? Playoffs??

But, deep down, I hope the Pacers make me eat every word, and win the title as the 8th seed.

I will gladly eat my crow, and say how wrong I was and how stupid I was.

But after enduring the last two seasons, maybe 3 or 4, then I think Im not the stupid one.

I think thats what everyone wants DEEP down...like in their anus. That aside though, our drafting isn't that horrible...we just average the 17th pick...we usually pick based off of need, people didn't know Gilbert Arenas was going to turn out so bad *** when he was drafted in the second round. In 88 we picked smits at #2, later we got george mccloud at #7 and eric dampier at #10, those were all out of need. Honestly I would love to have eric dampier back on the team, he developed slow but he is a better big than david harrison and would matchup better than murphy does with what we have now to backup JO. He would be a help to Jeff on the boards as well. Smits was a fan favorite and a very capable player...I was young during the mccloud era, but 2 ou of 3 ain't bad. We have only had 3 top 10 picks in the past 20 years, that has SOMETHING to do with our bad drafting. We can't insult our front office for all of our draft choices because we haven't had the talent pool to draw from EVERY year when we are averaging the 17th pick in the draft.