Strange as I've never had tearing, and my TV is just a cheap one, although it is 60 Hz and I get between 60 to 100 FPS.
I've never felt the need to use V-Sync.

Exactly...I can Get well over 100+ FPS but i keep V sync on because i dont want to over drive the TV and Mess it up...V sync Limits TV to what ever the Max Frame Rate is...its a 120 HTz TV so Native FPS is 60.

Edit: Im Not getting any Tearing... Picture is Amazing!!! Im just Trying Not to Hurt the TV.

Model is Samsung Un48JU6700

Edit: Take Note im Not saying i get 100FPS in UHD... I Do get over 60FPS but i use V Sync to Keep FPS to 60.

25 car Grid, Conditions:Thunder Storm, All Graphics at Highest/Max setting FPS varied Between 60 to 45.
I Will Try without V Sync on tonight... Test Run Using MSI Afterburner.

Haiden

23-08-2016, 04:47

Yeah Mate just purchase or download the free game from Steam then in game there is a store icon just click on that and get whatever packs or individual cars/tracks you want and it just takes money from your Steam wallet.
Cheaper than Steam and more content.

Gave it a shot tonight. At first, I wasn't too sure. The graphics aren't as good. But then...the sound! I don't know... I got pretty into the Saleen, driving with the H-shifter. I'm going to keep messing with it, see how well I can get it dialed in. The physics seem fine, but the FFB left a little to be desired, so it's hard to say for sure. They do provide quite a bit of control over the feel, and I didn't get a chance to make any adjustments.

BigDad

23-08-2016, 04:59

Gave it a shot tonight. At first, I wasn't too sure. The graphics aren't as good. But then...the sound! I don't know... I got pretty into the Saleen, driving with the H-shifter. I'm going to keep messing with it, see how well I can get it dialed in. The physics seem fine, but the FFB left a little to be desired, so it's hard to say for sure. They do provide quite a bit of control over the feel, and I didn't get a chance to make any adjustments.

Yeah, that free Saleen is pretty cool. I wasn't all that sure about the game but once I got the settings maxed and Turned on my TV's motion flow crap the picture is pretty immersive. (yeah, I know motion flow usually sux but for this game it really helps) and started messing with all the ffb and audio settings I've really got into it.
Got another $50 to put into it tonight.

Haiden

23-08-2016, 11:07

Yeah, that free Saleen is pretty cool. I wasn't all that sure about the game but once I got the settings mixed and Turned on my TV's motion flow crap the picture is pretty immersive. (yeah, I know motion flow usually sux but for this game it really helps) and started messing with all the ffb and audio settings I've really got into it.
Got another $50 to put into it tonight.

It's really hard to judge with the free cars, because they're not really my style. I'm going to purchase a couple of cars I really like (GT and an open wheel), and then use those to get the settings dialed in. If I like the feel/experience with those cars, I'll buy more content. :)

Haiden

23-08-2016, 11:13

Exactly...I can Get well over 100+ FPS but i keep V sync on because i dont want to over drive the TV and Mess it up...V sync Limits TV to what ever the Max Frame Rate is...its a 120 HTz TV so Native FPS is 60.

Edit: Im Not getting any Tearing... Picture is Amazing!!! Im just Trying Not to Hurt the TV.

Model is Samsung Un48JU6700

Edit: Take Note im Not saying i get 100FPS in UHD... I Do get over 60FPS but i use V Sync to Keep FPS to 60.

25 car Grid, Conditions:Thunder Storm, All Graphics at Highest/Max setting FPS varied Between 60 to 45.
I Will Try without V Sync on tonight... Test Run Using MSI Afterburner.

That model TV only outputs 120Hz at 1080p. When running 4K, it outputs at 60Hz. That's why you're getting 60 fps with V-Sync. It is not a true 120 Hz, TV. Samsung started the BS of using the Motion Rate, instead of the real refresh rate. Now people think they're buying 120 Hz displays, when they're only 60 Hz, capable of an enhanced 120 Hz @ 1080p.

Edit: Yes your GPU can output more. I can get over 100 fps without V-Sync, but that doesn't mean my TV is handling the extra frames. Just because the FPS counter shows the GPU sending 100 frames, doesn't mean your TV is actually rendering 100 fps. The extra frames are being dropped. They aren't making the image any smoother, because the display can't run above 60 fps. The downside of v-sync is, if your GPU drops below 60 fps (even just to 57-58), it could cause a stutter--basically the gfx opposite of tearing. If you want a free flowing/variable fps, try turning v-sync off, and limiting the fps to 60.

GrimeyDog

23-08-2016, 13:09

I did just that... The Graphics Card Reads the TV and Gives the option to set it to 60 or 30Htz... I set the Graphics Card to 60htz and will turn off V sync when i get on...Large size Monitors are just too Dam expensive!!! Im Not thinking of Buying 1 because the picture Quality is Great as it is Now.... Well let Me be careful because i been saying i wasnt goinig to spend $2k on a PC just to play PCars...Yup i did just that...LOL!!!

You should get MSI after Burner to Monitor FPS, Heat, Fan speed, PC usage etc.... I set it up last night it works pretty Good!!!

Haiden

23-08-2016, 14:49

I did just that... The Graphics Card Reads the TV and Gives the option to set it to 60 or 30Htz... I set the Graphics Card to 60htz and will turn off V sync when i get on...Large size Monitors are just too Dam expensive!!! Im Not thinking of Buying 1 because the picture Quality is Great as it is Now.... Well let Me be careful because i been saying i wasnt goinig to spend $2k on a PC just to play PCars...Yup i did just that...LOL!!!

You should get MSI after Burner to Monitor FPS, Heat, Fan speed, PC usage etc.... I set it up last night it works pretty Good!!!

Same. I'd like to get the higher refresh rates, but the largest monitor I've seen is only 35". I don't like the loss of height with most PC monitors, so I'd have to go with a 35". That's my dilemma about triple screens. Wonder if PCars2 will have real triple screen support.

MSI Afterburner is cool to check GPU performance with new games. Unless, you're overclocking, though, you really only need to check it once per game, after a driver update, or if you think you've got a problem with your GPU.

GrimeyDog

23-08-2016, 14:52

Ok Now its Official... I changed My platform to PCyes:
I almost forgot to do that!!!
Also Added PC to First Page Post... Tweek TF/RAC 75 ported Straight to PC No adjustment Needed!!!
The only Platform that Needs adjustment is the XBOX 1 and thats just a Matter of Setting the at the wheel FFB accordingly to your desired at the wheel FFB strength:yes:
I Niw Have All 3 platforms to Test and Tweek on:loyal:

Best of all its plug wheel in and play!!! I can change between systems in 5min or less:yes:... But I dunno how Much Console Racing i will be doing in the Future... PC is just Wow...best i can describe it!!!

My observation from Tweeking all 3 systems is as follows.

MS New FFB system is Not in a good State... No Matter How you Tweek it... It just Doesnt Have the Fideliyy and Subtle Feel of PC or PS4.

PC and PS4 are Very Close/Similar in FFB feel but the PC FFB has more Nuanced and Subtle Feel... They almost Feel the same but the Clarity of the PC FFB forces are just outta the Range of what todays Consoles can produce.

With all this Tweeking and Such i feel like such a Geek:p Its Been alotta Head Ache:dejection: But also alotta Fun:cool:

BigDad

23-08-2016, 14:58

It's really hard to judge with the free cars, because they're not really my style. I'm going to purchase a couple of cars I really like (GT and an open wheel), and then use those to get the settings dialed in. If I like the feel/experience with those cars, I'll buy more content. :)
i just did a little buying spree in the R3E shop . there are some 55c GT3 cars ,lol got all of them as well as a few of new tracks and did a comparison of AC in BMW GT3 Z4 around RedBull Ring and , well i honestly thing i have to give it to R3E even with its crappy reflections and mirrors , every where else it out shines AC , with the aggressive sounds and FFB it just really draws me in . I only wish it had some road cars .
I think ive got just about all the content from R3E that i really want and its cost me about $65 . Thats all the tracks and most cars , there is definetly more money to spend but to get the most for as little $ i think ive done it . Ill just keep a eye out for some sales to pick up the loose ends i dont already have .

Haiden

23-08-2016, 15:01

Yeah, that free Saleen is pretty cool. I wasn't all that sure about the game but once I got the settings mixed and Turned on my TV's motion flow crap the picture is pretty immersive. (yeah, I know motion flow usually sux but for this game it really helps) and started messing with all the ffb and audio settings I've really got into it.
Got another $50 to put into it tonight.

I love the Test Drive feature. I didn't realize that was there. I tried the BMW Z4 GT3. Pretty nice! Gonna check out a few more tonight. Think I'll purchase about 5 cars to start, along with a few of my favorite tracks.

It's funny, as I bounced between these three titles--PCars, AC, and RR--I find myself enjoying them all. I start one to test something, thinking it'll only take a half lap, and then 5-10 laps later, I'm like... wait...what was a I supposed to be doing. They're just all so fun to drive...LOL

BigDad

23-08-2016, 15:10

Yeah , im enjoying the pc life .
R3E load times suck hey, i haven't got it on my SSD but i was going to move stuff around but was reading online that putting it on a SSD doesn't make much difference for some reason to do with its network configuration . What do you find , as you seem to only have a SSD . Is it a lot slower than AC ? because AC on my SSD is super quick to load .

Haiden

23-08-2016, 15:30

i just did a little buying spree in the R3E shop . there are some 55c GT3 cars ,lol got all of them as well as a few of new tracks and did a comparison of AC in BMW GT3 Z4 around RedBull Ring and , well i honestly thing i have to give it to R3E even with its crappy reflections and mirrors , every where else it out shines AC , with the aggressive sounds and FFB it just really draws me in . I only wish it had some road cars .
I think ive got just about all the content from R3E that i really want and its cost me about $65 . Thats all the tracks and most cars , there is definetly more money to spend but to get the most for as little $ i think ive done it . Ill just keep a eye out for some sales to pick up the loose ends i dont already have .

I haven't had a chance to tweak the FFB in R3E, but will tonight. Right now, though... I'd have to give the nod to AC. I think R3E has the best physics out of the three (AC being second), but, overall, AC wins because it's a good combination of all three elements--graphics, physics, FFB, and AI. In fact, AC's AI is just brilliant. The way they behave is so much more realistic than PCars. They actually seem like they are subject to obeying real life physics, just like me. And they don't ignore you. They even seem to take the time to consider what you might do, before they make their move. The best is when they fake a quick swerve to try and punk you off your line...LOL. The wheel to wheel action in AC is just top notch. And the spotter arrows are a much needed onscreen guide that make it so much easier to run close with another car when you only have one screen.

Strangely enough, after all the work done to get PCars FFB dialed in, I have to be honest, it feels great (even better with my last adjustments), but not as good as AC and RE3. It's just not there, and after feeling AC and R3E, I realize that it's never going to be there, because PCars just takes a different approach to FFB. On console, PCars currently has no equal. It had been a long time since I played a sim on PC, and the console version of PCars actually felt better than what I remembered and it was lightyears ahead of Forza, which is what I'd been playing for the past eight years. But now that I'm trying other titles on PC, I have a much better understanding and appreciation for differences in feel. I also better understand why some people weren't happy with PCars FFB and preferred other titles. R3E's graphics don't compare to PCars, but the sounds, handling, and feel are amazing. So much so, that after a few short laps, I'd forgotten all about the graphic differences and was completely immersed in the sim.

Yeah , im enjoying the pc life .
R3E load times suck hey, i haven't got it on my SSD but i was going to move stuff around but was reading online that putting it on a SSD doesn't make much difference for some reason to do with its network configuration . What do you find , as you seem to only have a SSD . Is it a lot slower than AC ? because AC on my SSD is super quick to load .

They both load pretty quick for me. I think R3E's load times are about the same as PCars. AC loads the fastest. I went with a single SSD, because I'm not planning to do anything else on that machine but game. IMO, the SSD HD combo for builds is a little outdated. It made sense when SSDs were very expensive and you just wanted one for OS and priority game. But storage is cheap now. 500GB is more than enough space for me to install all my games and DLC. If that drive even gets half full, it will be because I've got old games on there that I no longer play...LOL. I'd install a second SSD before I put a standard HD in that machine.

BigDad

23-08-2016, 15:40

I haven't had a chance to tweak the FFB in R3E, but will tonight. Right now, though... I'd have to give the nod to AC. I think R3E has the best physics out of the three (AC being second), but, overall, AC wins because it's a good combination of all three elements--graphics, physics, FFB, and AI. In fact, AC's AI is just brilliant. The way they behave is so much more realistic than PCars. They actually seem like they are subject to obeying real life physics, just like me. And they don't ignore you. They even seem to take the time to consider what you might do, before they make their move. The best is when they fake a quick swerve to try and punk you off your line...LOL. The wheel to wheel action in AC is just top notch. And the spotter arrows are a much needed onscreen guide that make it so much easier to run close with another car when you only have one screen.

Strangely enough, after all the work done to get PCars FFB dialed in, I have to be honest, it feels great (even better with my last adjustments), but not as good as AC and RE3. It's just not there, and after feeling AC and R3E, I realize that it's never going to be there, because PCars just takes a different approach to FFB. On console, PCars currently has no equal. It had been a long time since I played a sim on PC, and the console version of PCars actually felt better than what I remembered and it was lightyears ahead of Forza, which is what I'd been playing for the past eight years. But now that I'm trying other titles on PC, I have a much better understanding and appreciation for differences in feel. I also better understand why some people weren't happy with PCars FFB and preferred other titles. R3E's graphics don't compare to PCars, but the sounds, handling, and feel are amazing. So much so, that after a few short laps, I'd forgotten all about the graphic differences and was completely immersed in the sim.
If you like the proximity arrows in AC you should try the Helicorsa mod app , i think its better than the arrows and wish i could turn them off .
I agree about AC's Ai but R3E's Ai also is pretty realistic aslong as you set the difficulty right , to high and they drive straight through you and to low they stop in the middle of the corner .

BigDad

24-08-2016, 02:02

I haven't had a chance to tweak the FFB in R3E, but will tonight. Right now, though... I'd have to give the nod to AC. I think R3E has the best physics out of the three (AC being second), but, overall, AC wins because it's a good combination of all three elements--graphics, physics, FFB, and AI. In fact, AC's AI is just brilliant. The way they behave is so much more realistic than PCars. They actually seem like they are subject to obeying real life physics, just like me. And they don't ignore you. They even seem to take the time to consider what you might do, before they make their move. The best is when they fake a quick swerve to try and punk you off your line...LOL. The wheel to wheel action in AC is just top notch. And the spotter arrows are a much needed onscreen guide that make it so much easier to run close with another car when you only have one screen.

Strangely enough, after all the work done to get PCars FFB dialed in, I have to be honest, it feels great (even better with my last adjustments), but not as good as AC and RE3. It's just not there, and after feeling AC and R3E, I realize that it's never going to be there, because PCars just takes a different approach to FFB. On console, PCars currently has no equal. It had been a long time since I played a sim on PC, and the console version of PCars actually felt better than what I remembered and it was lightyears ahead of Forza, which is what I'd been playing for the past eight years. But now that I'm trying other titles on PC, I have a much better understanding and appreciation for differences in feel. I also better understand why some people weren't happy with PCars FFB and preferred other titles. R3E's graphics don't compare to PCars, but the sounds, handling, and feel are amazing. So much so, that after a few short laps, I'd forgotten all about the graphic differences and was completely immersed in the sim.

They both load pretty quick for me. I think R3E's load times are about the same as PCars. AC loads the fastest. I went with a single SSD, because I'm not planning to do anything else on that machine but game. IMO, the SSD HD combo for builds is a little outdated. It made sense when SSDs were very expensive and you just wanted one for OS and priority game. But storage is cheap now. 500GB is more than enough space for me to install all my games and DLC. If that drive even gets half full, it will be because I've got old games on there that I no longer play...LOL. I'd install a second SSD before I put a standard HD in that machine.

I like how after years playing on outdated consoles, after 10 minutes playing in current tech the thought of using a standard HD" seems outdated" lol.
After spending all my money getting my system money became tight so I only got a small SSD with the hope to add a larger one in the future.
I had to get a large HD because I was sick of my ps4's 500GB HD always full and didn't want to go through that again.

Haiden

24-08-2016, 11:24

Yeah , im enjoying the pc life .
R3E load times suck hey, i haven't got it on my SSD but i was going to move stuff around but was reading online that putting it on a SSD doesn't make much difference for some reason to do with its network configuration . What do you find , as you seem to only have a SSD . Is it a lot slower than AC ? because AC on my SSD is super quick to load .

You were right about the load times in R3E. It does take longer than the others, but it's still faster than PCars on console.

i just did a little buying spree in the R3E shop . there are some 55c GT3 cars ,lol got all of them as well as a few of new tracks and did a comparison of AC in BMW GT3 Z4 around RedBull Ring and , well i honestly thing i have to give it to R3E even with its crappy reflections and mirrors , every where else it out shines AC , with the aggressive sounds and FFB it just really draws me in . I only wish it had some road cars .
I think ive got just about all the content from R3E that i really want and its cost me about $65 . Thats all the tracks and most cars , there is definetly more money to spend but to get the most for as little $ i think ive done it . Ill just keep a eye out for some sales to pick up the loose ends i dont already have .

I'm really liking the game, though. I got the 2015 DTM, GT3, and P2 car packs and the European track pack. Figured I'd start with cars that I don't really play too much in other games. PCars only has one or DTMs, with a sad set of liveries, and I'm not really a fan of the LMP2 class in the game. The P2 (LMP2) class in R3E is a lot of fun to drive.

The GT3 car pack was the exception, as far as trying different cars, but that pack seemed like a must--about 12 cars with 124 liveries. That makes for some great race grids, and I figured it's also a popular class in online play. The DTM pack came with about 8 tracks, so, coupled with the European track pack, I think I'm set for a while. I think I've got the FFB dialed in pretty good. Surprisingly, it's the sound that takes me a while to get balanced for my tastes. They give you a lot of control over the sounds, which makes sense, because the sound is one of the title's strengths, along with the physics and handling.

GrimeyDog

24-08-2016, 11:41

I was told its better to Save your games on the HD... I had Pcars loaded to the SSD i switched it to the HD and IMO I see No Notable Diff in Load times.

I also am Really Loving PC Gaming Life.its just beyter in sooo Many ways!!! Im still busey figuring stuff out getting My PC settings dialed in im only Maybe 75% finding the PC optimal Gaming settings dialed in and already the diff in the quality of PC vs Console Gaming is Huge!!!

The MSI 170A motherboard has a built in over clock I went into the Bios and enabled the Built in Gaming Boost!!! with the push of a button it over clocked from 3.5 to 4.1!!! Haiden Have you done thsi yet??? I did turn it back off because its Not Needed Not even with PCars on Ultra and High settings... It really Makes No Diff that i saw... The CPU will run a Few degrees hotter though so i will wait until i get a Liquid cooling system to activate it.

the built in Game Boost ATM is Not Needed because i see No real performance gains... Probably because im only using 1 scree....but its Nice to know its there...Maybe i will Need it for Pcars 2??? or for VR???

its a built in feature so its Guarenteed Stable!!! Guarenteed Stable to the Point that activating it will Not Void your warrenty Mother Board or i5/i7 cpu!!! Very Nice Feature... Sooo Simple even a Grimey Can do it... LOL

Haiden

24-08-2016, 12:05

I was told its better to Save your games on the HD... I had Pcars loaded to the SSD i switched it to the HD and IMO I see No Notable Diff in Load times.

I also am Really Loving PC Gaming Life.its just beyter in sooo Many ways!!! Im still busey figuring stuff out getting My PC settings dialed in im only Maybe 75% finding the PC optimal Gaming settings dialed in and already the diff in the quality of PC vs Console Gaming is Huge!!!

The MSI 170A motherboard has a built in over clock I went into the Bios and enabled the Built in Gaming Boost!!! with the push of a button it over clocked from 3.5 to 4.1!!! Haiden Have you done thsi yet??? I did turn it back off because its Not Needed Not even with PCars on Ultra and High settings... It really Makes No Diff that i saw... The CPU will run a Few degrees hotter though so i will wait until i get a Liquid cooling system to activate it.

the built in Game Boost ATM is Not Needed because i see No real performance gains... Probably because im only using 1 scree....but its Nice to know its there...Maybe i will Need it for Pcars 2??? or for VR???

its a built in feature so its Guarenteed Stable!!! Guarenteed Stable to the Point that activating it will Not Void your warrenty Mother Board or i5/i7 cpu!!! Very Nice Feature... Sooo Simple even a Grimey Can do it... LOL

IDK...in my experience SSD is always faster, simply by design. It might not be noticeable, but I don't see any reason for recommending that you install games on the HD, instead of the SSD. The same principle for install the OS on the SSD applies to games--the PC can simply read the data faster from SSD. Again, not saying it makes a perceivable difference in load times.

I've read overclocking can cause problems with some games more than others, which is why I didn't have them set mine at build. I don't want to get to the point where I have custom clock profiles for different games. I also don't need the power right now. My i7 has more than enough power, and it's got a built in a boost (4.0 to around 4.2 Ghz). Are you sure it doesn't void your warranty on the CPU? They aren't the same manufacturer.

Also, when Microcenter was building mine out, the tech said he still need a senior tech to do the overclocking, even though I have an MSI 170, with the built in feature. Two people at the store said they still do a lot of testing to make sure it's actually stable. IDK... I don't know enough about overclocking to try it myself. If I get to the point where I need more power, I'll do some more research.

GrimeyDog

24-08-2016, 13:17

The OS Needs to be on the SSD thats where the Notable Diff is... Its only Really at PC Start up... The SSD loads Much Much Quicker... For Gaming it makes No big Notable diff this is what i was told and also what i have been reading.

Yes you have the MSI MB also... The over Click is Built into the Board...You dont have to do anytbing but Enable it:yes: there are also memory 10x slots built there that you can save OC profiles if you choose... But you dont have to do Any Custom Tweeking its Preset to work with i5/i7 at peak gaming performance by MSI:yes: these are MSI pre programmed OC settings so Nope it will Not Void your warrenty... also the boards have a button built on them to Reset the Bios to regular if you run into a problem but thats for the Pro's who go in and do Custom OC profiles... For MSI Z170A its just Enable it and push apply:yes: I believe You have a MSI Gaming board aslo and you should have that feature.

I think the i7 OC to 4.7 or 4.8 with the MSI Game Boost setting...Mine went instantly to 4.1 and all i did was push the Game Boost Button!!! Runs Very Stable because its MSI settings not some OC i came up with Myself... I would Crash the PC trying to set it up Myself... LOL!!!

Check the Pic.. Its Ment to do it... "intel trubo Boost Tecnology" it just makes More Heat at the CPU because it kicks the power consumption up... when i get a liquid Cooling system i will enable it permanently:yes:

GrimeyDog

24-08-2016, 13:42

Also thanks for that link on Graphics settings!!! after reading that post and watching the Videos I came up with a Mix of Ultra and High Settings that Maintain a Constant 55 to 60 FPS with 16 car Grid and Thunder Storm Conditions and thats with out the Game Boost Button!!!

I will post them later for any 1 who cares to try them.

Also I tried turning off the V sync and thats just Not Good!!! The Fram Rate 60 to 100+ Varys too Much to get a Smooth picture!!! V Sync on it runs at 60FPS and its Smooth as Butter!!!

Conclusion is a Regular 120HTz TV just can keep up with the FPS... I will try it on My 240HTz 3D TV when i get a Chance it should fair Much better because it can Maintain 120FPS rate...Im pretty sure of this... So I May end up Getting a Curved 48 or 50in 3D TV because i dont wanna go 3x Screens.

I will wait until November and the Black Friday TV sales Start:yes: they just want too Much $$$ to buy them when its Not a Black Friday sale.... Last year the Black Friday sale Ran the whole Month of November!!! I got that 48 curverd TV for $799.!!! I look Now its still over $1,300!!! I wouldnt pay that for a TV!!!

BigDad

24-08-2016, 15:21

The OS Needs to be on the SSD thats where the Notable Diff is... Its only Really at PC Start up... The SSD loads Much Much Quicker... For Gaming it makes No big Notable diff this is what i was told and also what i have been reading.

Yes you have the MSI MB also... The over Click is Built into the Board...You dont have to do anytbing but Enable it:yes: there are also memory 10x slots built there that you can save OC profiles if you choose... But you dont have to do Any Custom Tweeking its Preset to work with i5/i7 at peak gaming performance by MSI:yes: these are MSI pre programmed OC settings so Nope it will Not Void your warrenty... also the boards have a button built on them to Reset the Bios to regular if you run into a problem but thats for the Pro's who go in and do Custom OC profiles... For MSI Z170A its just Enable it and push apply:yes: I believe You have a MSI Gaming board aslo and you should have that feature.

I think the i7 OC to 4.7 or 4.8 with the MSI Game Boost setting...Mine went instantly to 4.1 and all i did was push the Game Boost Button!!! Runs Very Stable because its MSI settings not some OC i came up with Myself... I would Crash the PC trying to set it up Myself... LOL!!!

Check the Pic.. Its Ment to do it... "intel trubo Boost Tecnology" it just makes More Heat at the CPU because it kicks the power consumption up... when i get a liquid Cooling system i will enable it permanently:yes:
I've got a similar button on my Asrock Mobo and i push it and get 4.2GHz but was informed my cooler probably wouldnt be sufficient so i went to 4.0GHz and have a load temp of 38 dec.C . So i think my cooler will do 4.2GHz but i will wait to see if i need it.
Just updated my Fanatec driver to fw226 and now my LCD screen works in R3E . Pretty cool that now i can change that screen with a push of a button and get Speed /gears /race pos and fuel and a mix of each . Another thing the ps4 couldnt do .

BigDad

24-08-2016, 15:28

The OS Needs to be on the SSD thats where the Notable Diff is... Its only Really at PC Start up... The SSD loads Much Much Quicker... For Gaming it makes No big Notable diff this is what i was told and also what i have been reading.

Yes you have the MSI MB also... The over Click is Built into the Board...You dont have to do anytbing but Enable it:yes: there are also memory 10x slots built there that you can save OC profiles if you choose... But you dont have to do Any Custom Tweeking its Preset to work with i5/i7 at peak gaming performance by MSI:yes: these are MSI pre programmed OC settings so Nope it will Not Void your warrenty... also the boards have a button built on them to Reset the Bios to regular if you run into a problem but thats for the Pro's who go in and do Custom OC profiles... For MSI Z170A its just Enable it and push apply:yes: I believe You have a MSI Gaming board aslo and you should have that feature.

I think the i7 OC to 4.7 or 4.8 with the MSI Game Boost setting...Mine went instantly to 4.1 and all i did was push the Game Boost Button!!! Runs Very Stable because its MSI settings not some OC i came up with Myself... I would Crash the PC trying to set it up Myself... LOL!!!

Check the Pic.. Its Ment to do it... "intel trubo Boost Tecnology" it just makes More Heat at the CPU because it kicks the power consumption up... when i get a liquid Cooling system i will enable it permanently:yes:
You sure that is safe for not voiding warranty ? the voltage in your pic is quite a bit over stock and i thought if voltage is raised warranty will be void .

Haiden

24-08-2016, 15:40

The OS Needs to be on the SSD thats where the Notable Diff is... Its only Really at PC Start up... The SSD loads Much Much Quicker... For Gaming it makes No big Notable diff this is what i was told and also what i have been reading.

Yes you have the MSI MB also... The over Click is Built into the Board...You dont have to do anytbing but Enable it:yes: there are also memory 10x slots built there that you can save OC profiles if you choose... But you dont have to do Any Custom Tweeking its Preset to work with i5/i7 at peak gaming performance by MSI:yes: these are MSI pre programmed OC settings so Nope it will Not Void your warrenty... also the boards have a button built on them to Reset the Bios to regular if you run into a problem but thats for the Pro's who go in and do Custom OC profiles... For MSI Z170A its just Enable it and push apply:yes: I believe You have a MSI Gaming board aslo and you should have that feature.

I think the i7 OC to 4.7 or 4.8 with the MSI Game Boost setting...Mine went instantly to 4.1 and all i did was push the Game Boost Button!!! Runs Very Stable because its MSI settings not some OC i came up with Myself... I would Crash the PC trying to set it up Myself... LOL!!!

Check the Pic.. Its Ment to do it... "intel trubo Boost Tecnology" it just makes More Heat at the CPU because it kicks the power consumption up... when i get a liquid Cooling system i will enable it permanently:yes:

I looked at MSI Afterburner for a bit. I'll get into later. Not needed right now, and I'm finding it really hard to tear myself away from the racing. All of the games are running smoothly right now, so I'm happy as-is. If there's performance gains to be had, I'll find them later. Right now, I'm just enjoying the PC experience. :)

You're right. SSDs don't make much difference for game performance when it's running, because the game is mostly loaded into memory and run from there. But the load times should always be shorter on SSD. Again, whether it's perceptible or not, is questionable. But by technical design/nature, a PC can read data from an SSD faster than from an HD.

Also thanks for that link on Graphics settings!!! after reading that post and watching the Videos I came up with a Mix of Ultra and High Settings that Maintain a Constant 55 to 60 FPS with 16 car Grid and Thunder Storm Conditions and thats with out the Game Boost Button!!!

I will post them later for any 1 who cares to try them.

Also I tried turning off the V sync and thats just Not Good!!! The Fram Rate 60 to 100+ Varys too Much to get a Smooth picture!!! V Sync on it runs at 60FPS and its Smooth as Butter!!!

Conclusion is a Regular 120HTz TV just can keep up with the FPS... I will try it on My 240HTz 3D TV when i get a Chance it should fair Much better because it can Maintain 120FPS rate...Im pretty sure of this... So I May end up Getting a Curved 48 or 50in 3D TV because i dont wanna go 3x Screens.

I will wait until November and the Black Friday TV sales Start:yes: they just want too Much $$$ to buy them when its Not a Black Friday sale.... Last year the Black Friday sale Ran the whole Month of November!!! I got that 48 curverd TV for $799.!!! I look Now its still over $1,300!!! I wouldnt pay that for a TV!!!

NP. Yep... there are a number of things you can dial down that make little to no difference to human eye.

Obviously, it's your call, but you might want to check this review site (or one like it). They list the actual refresh rates down the page on the right side. http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/samsung/ks9500

When dealing with TVs, the 120 or 240, you're looking at isn't a refresh rate. It's what they call a Motion Rate, and it's not the same as refresh. Most TV manufacturers no longer list the actual refresh rate on product pages. You have to get that elsewhere from review sites.

Think about it. PC gaming monitors are the best, right? Check the list on this page. http://120hzmonitors.com/monitor-list-120hz-144hz-165hz-200hz-240hz/ There's only one monitor that is a true 240Hz and it was just released in June 2016, and it's only running 240 at SHD. The only PC monitor on the list that's running 120Hz at 4K resolution is a 30" Dell. Even the bad-ass BenQ 35 gaming monitor can only run 144Hz @ 2560x1080. There simply are no 4K Televisions (120 or 240 Motion Rate) that can run 4K at 120Hz. Now, you could go with an HD TV, and run 120 at 1080p. But it seems like a waste of two 1070s. 4K is beautiful at 60 fps. Is it really worth the extra frames to sacrifice the 4K image quality? Why run a high end PC at less than 4K on a single screen TV setup? If you want 120+Hz, then you're going to have to go with an actual gaming monitor and sacrifice some screen size. This has been my dilemma. When it comes time to upgrade to triple screens, I'll probably be forced to give up some screen height, because I don't want to run triples at 60Hz, so I'll be looking at gaming monitors. The largest screens with the highest resolutions that I've seen are the BenQ and Acer models. Problem is, Acer's runs FreeSync, which only works with AMD GPUs, and the BenQ doesn't run any enhancements (G-Sync or Free-Sync). In fact, looking at that list, for Nvidia cards, a 27" monitor is the largest you can get with G-Sync.

Jack Spade

24-08-2016, 16:15

I looked at MSI Afterburner for a bit. I'll get into later. Not needed right now, and I'm finding it really hard to tear myself away from the racing. All of the games are running smoothly right now, so I'm happy as-is. If there's performance gains to be had, I'll find them later. Right now, I'm just enjoying the PC experience. :)

You're right. SSDs don't make much difference for game performance when it's running, because the game is mostly loaded into memory and run from there. But the load times should always be shorter on SSD. Again, whether it's perceptible or not, is questionable. But by technical design/nature, a PC can read data from an SSD faster than from an HD.

NP. Yep... there are a number of things you can dial down that make little to no difference to human eye.

Obviously, it's your call, but you might want to check this review site (or one like it). They list the actual refresh rates down the page on the right side. http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/samsung/ks9500

When dealing with TVs, the 120 or 240, you're looking at isn't a refresh rate. It's what they call a Motion Rate, and it's not the same as refresh. Most TV manufacturers no longer list the actual refresh rate on product pages. You have to get that elsewhere from review sites.

Think about it. PC gaming monitors are the best, right? Check the list on this page. http://120hzmonitors.com/monitor-list-120hz-144hz-165hz-200hz-240hz/ There's only one monitor that is a true 240Hz and it was just released in June 2016, and it's only running 240 at SHD. The only PC monitor on the list that's running 120Hz at 4K resolution is a 30" Dell. Even the bad-ass BenQ 35 gaming monitor can only run 144Hz @ 2560x1080. There simply are no 4K Televisions (120 or 240 Motion Rate) that can run 4K at 120Hz. Now, you could go with an HD TV, and run 120 at 1080p. But it seems like a waste of two 1070s. 4K is beautiful at 60 fps. Is it really worth the extra frames to sacrifice the 4K image quality? Why run a high end PC at less than 4K on a single screen TV setup? If you want 120+Hz, then you're going to have to go with an actual gaming monitor and sacrifice some screen size. This has been my dilemma. When it comes time to upgrade to triple screens, I'll probably be forced to give up some screen height, because I don't want to run triples at 60Hz, so I'll be looking at gaming monitors. The largest screens with the highest resolutions that I've seen are the BenQ and Acer models. Problem is, Acer's runs FreeSync, which only works with AMD GPUs, and the BenQ doesn't run any enhancements (G-Sync or Free-Sync). In fact, looking at that list, for Nvidia cards, a 27" monitor is the largest you can get with G-Sync.

You may have missed this one: Asus ROG Swift PG348Q Gaming-Monitor

Here are some more interesting ones: https://www.alternate.de/Monitore/21:9-Format-Curved

GrimeyDog

24-08-2016, 16:24

3d TVs will put out 120FPS for sure... Yhats How they work they have to double the Images for the 3D effect... Im oretty sure of this... so even when your Not Viewing 3D if you feed it More FPS it can Handle it upto 120.

Same pricipal how a 120 will only do 60FPS a 240 will do 120FPS.
Monitors are tooo Small i may just wait for VR to be oerfected.

Haiden

24-08-2016, 17:05

You may have missed this one: Asus ROG Swift PG348Q Gaming-Monitor

Here are some more interesting ones: https://www.alternate.de/Monitore/21:9-Format-Curved

I totally did. That's a beast!. :) And way out of my budget. $1,100 was the cheapest I saw. I'd love to see what a $3,300 triple screen set up looked like, but I won't find out in my house, that's for sure. :)

3d TVs will put out 120FPS for sure... Yhats How they work they have to double the Images for the 3D effect... Im oretty sure of this... so even when your Not Viewing 3D if you feed it More FPS it can Handle it upto 120.

Same pricipal how a 120 will only do 60FPS a 240 will do 120FPS.
Monitors are tooo Small i may just wait for VR to be oerfected.

I think you need to check that page. Like I said the real refresh rates are listed down the page on the right hand side. Even Samsung 9500 series--their top line product--only does 60Hz at 4K. It's a 240 Motion Rate, and it does display 1080p at 120Hz, but it can only do 4K at 60Hz. The half principle you're referring to 120=60, 240=120 only applies to the refresh rate at 1080p. Dude...just look up your model number. It'll show you right there on the page what your real 4K refresh rate is. :) I mean, you can keep looking/testing, but I think you're wasting your time. Current TVs are limited, and won't (if ever) be able to match the refresh rates of PC monitors. It just doesn't pay for manufactures to make a TV like that, because it's not needed for their primary viewing purpose--televisions and movies. It would be way too expensive with current technology.

Edit: I totally agree about PC monitors being too small, though. I think that's changing now, but it still might be a few years before we see PC monitors creep into the 40" range, especially now with VR coming out. VR doesn't produce the same resolution as PC monitors, but better immersion is the trade off, and I think the headsets will start competing with the triple screen setups, making manufacturers are little wary of developing high-end screens in the 40" range. Even the current 35", as sweet as they are, are out of budget for most people. Especially, when you're talking about purchasing three of them. A nice 4K single screen with a VR setup will soon be a strong alternative to triple screens.

konnos

24-08-2016, 17:31

Yea the real Hz are not those that are quoted in their advertisements. Your regular TV probably runs at 50Hz (USA has that i think) or maybe 100Hz if it's expensive and good enough.

Roger Prynne

24-08-2016, 18:33

You're right. SSDs don't make much difference for game performance when it's running, because the game is mostly loaded into memory and run from there. But the load times should always be shorter on SSD. Again, whether it's perceptible or not, is questionable. But by technical design/nature, a PC can read data from an SSD faster than from an HD.
Absolutely correct, also there are no moving parts on an SSD, so less chance of bad sectors and clusters resulting from physical damage that can’t be repaired on HDD.

GrimeyDog

24-08-2016, 21:17

USA is 60Htz(NSTC) abroad is 50(PAL)

Haiden your Right... I should Have clarified the 48in Curved TV is UHD 120HTz only 60FPS... The 40in 3D is 1080p 240HTz so i can get 120FPS 1080p Not UHD

GrimeyDog

24-08-2016, 21:39

Absolutely correct, also there are no moving parts on an SSD, so less chance of bad sectors and clusters resulting from physical damage that can’t be repaired on HDD.

this is also true I had Nit though of this... I was thinking more about faster Notably load times HDD VS SDD.
1TB of SDD is almost $300!!! yup i will be waiting for the prices to Drop before i put anymore SDD in...the 250GB is enough for now.... My pockets are kinda sore and abused ATM:o

Haiden

24-08-2016, 21:44

USA is 60Htz(NSTC) abroad is 50(PAL)

Haiden your Right... I should Have clarified the 48in Curved TV is UHD 120HTz only 60FPS... The 40in 3D is 1080p 240HTz so i can get 120FPS 1080p Not UHD

Let me know what you think. I'm curious to know if you think the small boost in fps is worth the loss of resolution. For me, I don't really have choice, because the display is mounted to my rig. At that distance, 55" is a little too close to run at 1080p resolution...LOL

morpwr

24-08-2016, 21:46

Also thanks for that link on Graphics settings!!! after reading that post and watching the Videos I came up with a Mix of Ultra and High Settings that Maintain a Constant 55 to 60 FPS with 16 car Grid and Thunder Storm Conditions and thats with out the Game Boost Button!!!

I will post them later for any 1 who cares to try them.

Also I tried turning off the V sync and thats just Not Good!!! The Fram Rate 60 to 100+ Varys too Much to get a Smooth picture!!! V Sync on it runs at 60FPS and its Smooth as Butter!!!

Conclusion is a Regular 120HTz TV just can keep up with the FPS... I will try it on My 240HTz 3D TV when i get a Chance it should fair Much better because it can Maintain 120FPS rate...Im pretty sure of this... So I May end up Getting a Curved 48 or 50in 3D TV because i dont wanna go 3x Screens.

I will wait until November and the Black Friday TV sales Start:yes: they just want too Much $$$ to buy them when its Not a Black Friday sale.... Last year the Black Friday sale Ran the whole Month of November!!! I got that 48 curverd TV for $799.!!! I look Now its still over $1,300!!! I wouldnt pay that for a TV!!!

Better yet wait until right about Christmas time when they want to dump last years models because all the new ones are out. I bought my first 60 inch like that. Started at 6000 dollars which is insane.lol By Christmas it was 2500 and check best buy online often for online specials they don't post. They say they don't do it anymore but they still have unadvertised specials if you check online.

morpwr

24-08-2016, 21:52

Haiden which ffb settings did you settle on? I just cant get the 3.0 ones to work no matter what I change. It actually worked out good because I had a 4 day brake before trying them again. So sort of a fresh start. I wasn't bouncing back and forth between 2.9 and 3.0. I see what he was trying to do because some of the forces feel clearer but the important ones to me like how the wheel feels in a corner just feels off. Sort of just heavy and stays that way with no real feel to it. Almost seems like somewhere between these and the last ones would have been perfect.

konnos

25-08-2016, 01:10

For me the latest one, v.3.00 ClassicStandard, is the one that felt "right-er" than the older ones. I noticed is has more road feel which stiffens my wheel a little, which is something I needed to keep me more focused when not pushing in corners. That's how I feel initially, maybe once I get used to it, it will seem too much or who knows. For now it feels like it was a needed change. I only drove a couple cars with the new files (long vacation with no PC) and it felt like Fx was upped, hitting the brakes while cornering brought back increased forces in the wheel, not something I dislike. Time will tell, it feels better for me so far, again I only drove 2 cars in the Nordschleife.

It's funny how I started with #3 66% then moved on to 2.FySopLat for quite a while and now I m using 1.Standard, maybe the extra forces were weirding me out for some reason, feeling too much from the back. I will test again with the rebalances, but I think #1 files are my preferred ones.

Haiden

25-08-2016, 02:16

Haiden which ffb settings did you settle on? I just cant get the 3.0 ones to work no matter what I change. It actually worked out good because I had a 4 day brake before trying them again. So sort of a fresh start. I wasn't bouncing back and forth between 2.9 and 3.0. I see what he was trying to do because some of the forces feel clearer but the important ones to me like how the wheel feels in a corner just feels off. Sort of just heavy and stays that way with no real feel to it. Almost seems like somewhere between these and the last ones would have been perfect.

I'm not totally sure yet. For the most part, the 3.0 settings feel pretty good. But I'm still not sure about a few cars. The FA is one where I had to raise Mz back to 2.9 level. I updated my settings on Oscar's site. Ive been playing other sims, so it's hard to say for sure, but I think I'm going to end up running a mix of 2.9 and 3.0 settings.

Edit: Sorry, I was out, and really couldn't respond well on my phone. Short answer... I don't know. I tried PCars this morning after a couple days away and found that the steering ratios I had been using were too tight. I reset them to default, and that was still to tight. Not sure why it makes such a difference now. In AC and R3E, I've been using the default setups. But that still doesn't explain why the default steering ratio for the Radical LMP2 felt so tight. I'll have a lot more time this weekend, so I'll let you know after I get a chance to really play around.

poirqc

25-08-2016, 02:40

Haiden which ffb settings did you settle on? I just cant get the 3.0 ones to work no matter what I change. It actually worked out good because I had a 4 day brake before trying them again. So sort of a fresh start. I wasn't bouncing back and forth between 2.9 and 3.0. I see what he was trying to do because some of the forces feel clearer but the important ones to me like how the wheel feels in a corner just feels off. Sort of just heavy and stays that way with no real feel to it. Almost seems like somewhere between these and the last ones would have been perfect.

If you want to stretch the windows around mid load, you could play with Scoops, since you're finding you're having a bit too much "heavyness".

For me, 3.0 left right on spot, without any changes, on the first cars i tried. After using more cars, i had a bit of rattling on some cars. From there, i only did some fine tuning to fix that.

After talking with other forum members, i tried more cars and felt that i had to shuffle the globals again. The worst offender was the RuF CTR. It felt empty around TDC and it would rattle all the time.

Jack build his files with a low deadzone wheel. And it shows.

Don't get me wrong, i think his numbers are in the right ball park. I really like how direct the driving is now. But that directness meant that torque deltas where too arsh with RAG to 1.5(i had it to 1.42).

I tried to balance turn ins, front wheel load, max slip angle. Before, i would know the front is understeering because i would dance between some forces and some looseness. Now, while the looseness is less present(depending on cars), i can aim for that specific load where i know that it's the max load where i have grip. Above that, i'm overworking the wheel.

Instead of aiming for looseness, i aim for a specific tire load.

I'll should update my G27 thread, but essentially, i sent RAG to 1 and set TF to 80. RAG 1,42 to 1 helped with the rattling and TF 75 to 80 helped with the low load around TDC. The wheel weight from RAC 0,85 was already in the right ball park.

Here's a cheat sheet that may help you takle what feels wrong.

TF, how fast FFB weigh build up.

PWM(S), remove the drag from the wheel so you can fell those minute movement accross the board.

Deadzone Removal, deals with the deadzone and rattling around TDC.

RAG, The higher it goes, the more exagerated curbs and FFB deltas will get.

RAB, will do lots of things, bit it can stretch the understeer feeling, over time. Too little, and it's hard to pick, too long and it's hard to stay balanced on max slip angle.

RAC, Max wheel weight around where compression occurs.

Scoops, help "strech" that elusive understeer feeling(wheel gets light pass max slip angle), It's about finding that spot where you don't sacrifice too much tire load to get that understeer feel.

SG, lift or lower the mixed FFB signal.

Hope it can help you. Sometimes different wording can make you click on something.

Jack Spade

25-08-2016, 08:57

To all V3.0 doubters.
The reason for this update the previous version wasnīt good enough for me. Actually Iīm a sound engineer and from this experience I can tell you one of
the sound killers are uncontrolled phase issues, this is no different here in FFB, the main reason is negative Fz. The purest or most minimalist FFB is just
a proper balance of Mz & Fy this will give you all you need to know what the car is doing on the track unaltered, all other stuff is like cream on the cake
but side effects included. Lately I found a more precise method to dim down these side effects as low as possible but still keeping enough of the cream.
Of course the previous version wasnīt completely wrong but imprecise under certain circumstances, for instance exaggerating an understeer situation by
adding a phase issue. One other result of avoiding phase issues is a tighter wheel, TF and DRR perhaps should be set slightly lower to compensate if needed.
Also, with the latest version many of the road cars now are in closer convergence to GTs. IMO these new sets come to an unaltered FFB closer than ever
before. Interestingly, the PC guys use the tweaker files and probably donīt look at them values and I canīt recall any of them reporting issues they have
with the latest sets in contrast to some people here where values must be set manually.

@ Haiden
Now after many days since the release of V3.0 and not touching any of the high downforce cars I checked most of them again concerning lower Mz due
to oscillation, IMO the FA is the only one where itīs probably questionable all others are fine and within an acceptable compromise setting in order to deal
with their dynamic.

lancashirelad

25-08-2016, 10:26

I'm hope P.Cars 2 does not have this over complicated ff system. If it has i will not buy. Will wait for reviews.
Waiting for my PS4 copy of A.Corsa to be delivered and i hoping the ff is ok out of the box. I'm done with spending hours messing with the settings.

morpwr

25-08-2016, 11:22

To all V3.0 doubters.
The reason for this update the previous version wasnīt good enough for me. Actually Iīm a sound engineer and from this experience I can tell you one of
the sound killers are uncontrolled phase issues, this is no different here in FFB, the main reason is negative Fz. The purest or most minimalist FFB is just
a proper balance of Mz & Fy this will give you all you need to know what the car is doing on the track unaltered, all other stuff is like cream on the cake
but side effects included. Lately I found a more precise method to dim down these side effects as low as possible but still keeping enough of the cream.
Of course the previous version wasnīt completely wrong but imprecise under certain circumstances, for instance exaggerating an understeer situation by
adding a phase issue. One other result of avoiding phase issues is a tighter wheel, TF and DRR perhaps should be set slightly lower to compensate if needed.
Also, with the latest version many of the road cars now are in closer convergence to GTs. IMO these new sets come to an unaltered FFB closer than ever
before. Interestingly, the PC guys use the tweaker files and probably donīt look at them values and I canīt recall any of them reporting issues they have
with the latest sets in contrast to some people here where values must be set manually.

@ Haiden
Now after many days since the release of V3.0 and not touching any of the high downforce cars I checked most of them again concerning lower Mz due
to oscillation, IMO the FA is the only one where itīs probably questionable all others are fine and within an acceptable compromise setting in order to deal
with their dynamic.

Jack,
I think youre getting it wrong. Nobody is doubting what you did and I'm sure most us get why you did it. The problem for me is I just don't have that connected feeling anymore and cant seem to find it. Ive tried running with no drr just to make sure that wasn't causing what I'm feeling. Played with scoops and so far spent 4 nights trying to get these to have some build up and fall off when cornering. Trust me its not that I don't want them to work.

morpwr

25-08-2016, 11:36

If you want to stretch the windows around mid load, you could play with Scoops, since you're finding you're having a bit too much "heavyness".

For me, 3.0 left right on spot, without any changes, on the first cars i tried. After using more cars, i had a bit of rattling on some cars. From there, i only did some fine tuning to fix that.

After talking with other forum members, i tried more cars and felt that i had to shuffle the globals again. The worst offender was the RuF CTR. It felt empty around TDC and it would rattle all the time.

Jack build his files with a low deadzone wheel. And it shows.

Don't get me wrong, i think his numbers are in the right ball park. I really like how direct the driving is now. But that directness meant that torque deltas where too arsh with RAG to 1.5(i had it to 1.42).

I tried to balance turn ins, front wheel load, max slip angle. Before, i would know the front is understeering because i would dance between some forces and some looseness. Now, while the looseness is less present(depending on cars), i can aim for that specific load where i know that it's the max load where i have grip. Above that, i'm overworking the wheel.

Instead of aiming for looseness, i aim for a specific tire load.

I'll should update my G27 thread, but essentially, i sent RAG to 1 and set TF to 80. RAG 1,42 to 1 helped with the rattling and TF 75 to 80 helped with the low load around TDC. The wheel weight from RAC 0,85 was already in the right ball park.

Here's a cheat sheet that may help you takle what feels wrong.

TF, how fast FFB weigh build up.

PWM(S), remove the drag from the wheel so you can fell those minute movement accross the board.

Deadzone Removal, deals with the deadzone and rattling around TDC.

RAG, The higher it goes, the more exagerated curbs and FFB deltas will get.

RAB, will do lots of things, bit it can stretch the understeer feeling, over time. Too little, and it's hard to pick, too long and it's hard to stay balanced on max slip angle.

RAC, Max wheel weight around where compression occurs.

Scoops, help "strech" that elusive understeer feeling(wheel gets light pass max slip angle), It's about finding that spot where you don't sacrifice too much tire load to get that understeer feel.

SG, lift or lower the mixed FFB signal.

Hope it can help you. Sometimes different wording can make you click on something.

poirqc,

I agree with your statement about being in the ballpark. I immediately noticed I guess id call it clearness to the new settings. The problem is I just cant get a good cornering feel back. I'm not looking for an exaggerated effect either. That's not how real cars feel but there should be some weight build up when entering and fall off on exit. So far I just cant find that feel again.

Haiden

25-08-2016, 11:36

@ Haiden
Now after many days since the release of V3.0 and not touching any of the high downforce cars I checked most of them again concerning lower Mz due
to oscillation, IMO the FA is the only one where itīs probably questionable all others are fine and within an acceptable compromise setting in order to deal
with their dynamic.

I can't say I've tried them all, because I just don't drive them all. But the FA was the only one that felt off to me. The others just felt different, which is fine. I think there were two other cars (I think they were both high DF), that I had to raise Mz a couple increments to tighten up the wheel. That's obviously preference.

I'm hope P.Cars 2 does not have this over complicated ff system. If it has i will not buy. Will wait for reviews.
Waiting for my PS4 copy of A.Corsa to be delivered and i hoping the ff is ok out of the box. I'm done with spending hours messing with the settings.

After going through months of FFB tuning in PCars, it's been refreshing to play a few titles with simplified user FFB controls. The overall feel of the FFB is fantastic, they just distilled the controls down to the basic user essentials, with easy to understand labels (Understeer Feel, Slip Feel, etc). The result is an easy setup that lets you get racing quicker. I'm sure SMS will improve the system settings for PCars', but even if they don't, the complexity won't stop me from buying it. The only thing that would turn me off, would be to purchase it, and then find out that the FFB system is just as complex or more, but they've gone in a totally different direction, and everything I've learned about the current system is no longer applicable. Given the options I have right now, I can't see myself spending a great deal of time tweaking again. For me, there's absolutely no benefit to that now. And I also better understand why a lot PC players were turned off by PCars. They simply had better options. On console, I didn't have a choice. I had been playing Forza5 for two years and was bored out of my mind with it and GT6 was still a nebulous dream with no actual release date in site. Back then, it was make PCars work or go back to boredom in Forza5. By the time PCars2 comes out, even console players will have other options. I know SMS realizes this. I just hope they realize what it actually means in terms of PCars being successful. This time on console, they won't be releasing a sim title in vacuum, which means it will be harder to impress and there will be less tolerance for issues.

Haiden

25-08-2016, 11:47

Jack,
I think youre getting it wrong. Nobody is doubting what you did and I'm sure most us get why you did it. The problem for me is I just don't have that connected feeling anymore and cant seem to find it. Ive tried running with no drr just to make sure that wasn't causing what I'm feeling. Played with scoops and so far spent 4 nights trying to get these to have some build up and fall off when cornering. Trust me its not that I don't want them to work.

poirqc,

I agree with your statement about being in the ballpark. I immediately noticed I guess id call it clearness to the new settings. The problem is I just cant get a good cornering feel back. I'm not looking for an exaggerated effect either. That's not how real cars feel but there should be some weight build up when entering and fall off on exit. So far I just cant find that feel again.

IMO, PCars has never had great progressive feel. I was able to get a little bit, but compared to other titles, it's pretty low. Also, wouldn't that be more a global settings thing? I can't really see how in-car settings would affect that. In most of the cars, I've tried, there are only three force scales that are changing (I don't use smoothing)--Fy, Mz, and SoP Diff. Mz was lowered, which might cause some cars to feel lighter in the wheel. If you don't like that, raise it a bit. SoP Diff might affect road feel and wheel weight as well. But Fy is where the strongest lateral forces are coming from. I don't doubt that v3.0 resolves lingering phase issues, but you're having trouble adjusting to the new settings, then I think you should look at Fy first, because in the cars I've tried it's been lowered, and that force scale is most felt when cornering, which seems to be the issue for you guys. If Fy doesn't help, then I'd say check your global settings.

It also might help to try Jack's global settings with v2.9, and then compare that feel to v3.0. Whether you like his global settings or not, that would at least let you experience the difference between the two versions with the globals they were designed for. Knowing how they differ in their true form, might give you an idea of whether what you're losing is actually related to the in-car changes or a result of how your custom globals are interacting with the in-car settings.

Sankyo

25-08-2016, 13:51

PLEASE DO NOT POST ANY CONTENT OR FEATURE INFORMATION ABOUT PCARS2. PCARS2 IS A CLOSED WMD PROJECT AND THEREFORE UNDER A STRICT EMBARGO OF 'NO COMMUNICATIONS'.

BigDad

25-08-2016, 14:26

PLEASE DO NOT POST ANY CONTENT OR FEATURE INFORMATION ABOUT PCARS2. PCARS2 IS A CLOSED WMD PROJECT AND THEREFORE UNDER A STRICT EMBARGO OF 'NO COMMUNICATIONS'.
Whoa ! That was loud , You Scared me :)

Haiden

25-08-2016, 15:20

poirqc,

I agree with your statement about being in the ballpark. I immediately noticed I guess id call it clearness to the new settings. The problem is I just cant get a good cornering feel back. I'm not looking for an exaggerated effect either. That's not how real cars feel but there should be some weight build up when entering and fall off on exit. So far I just cant find that feel again.

Okay, I mess around a little this morning, and tried something. Instead of lowering FF/TF to 75/75, which only increases the deadzone, I set FF/TF to 100/65. This is actually the old balance I used to use with my T300. When I got my CSW-v2 I started retuning, and ended up with a difference balance. But now I'm finding the 100/65 works very well (might be the firmware update from Fanatec), and here's why I think it does...

For the record, I'm not interested in or trying to start a debate about FF@100 or whether it's better to run more TF than FF. I'm speaking from my own perspective/opinion/preference or whatever and simply throwing this out there as something to try.

We know that Fy is the strongest of the four force scales and can overpower the others when it's too high, especially when cornering. We also know that the Master Scale is a multiplier of the force scales, and that global TF and the in-car Master Scale are the same. So, the higher you run TF or the Master scales, the stronger your four force scales will be, which includes the Fy output, so you will get a lot more weight from Fy in corners, and that could be what's drowning out the other forces. So, to get a handle on what's causing the issue you're having, I suggest setting FF/TF to 100/65, to see how the forces feel. You'll need to lower your DRR, as well, since you're raising FF, which decreases the deadzone. The reason why I'd lower TF instead of the Master Scale, is because TF is global and applies to all cars. The Master Scale is for individual fine tuning. Also, and this is just my personal opinion. I'm not entirely convinced that TF and the Master Scale use the same multiplier--meaning one increment of TF could be x5, while one increment on the Master Scale only represents x2.

Anyway, give the balance thing a shot. And go from there. :)

Haiden

25-08-2016, 16:12

Damn... I think I'd take PCars' launch bugs over these graphic issues--stuttering frame rates and terrible screen tearing. Yikes! This isn't anything like the PC version. Maybe they should have taken a little more time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YBzNDY5hMk

GrimeyDog

25-08-2016, 18:26

Haiden which ffb settings did you settle on? I just cant get the 3.0 ones to work no matter what I change. It actually worked out good because I had a 4 day brake before trying them again. So sort of a fresh start. I wasn't bouncing back and forth between 2.9 and 3.0. I see what he was trying to do because some of the forces feel clearer but the important ones to me like how the wheel feels in a corner just feels off. Sort of just heavy and stays that way with no real feel to it. Almost seems like somewhere between these and the last ones would have been perfect.

Just a suggestion...Im Not Looking to get into any debates but Maybe you should try My TF/RAC 75 again... the FFB sysrem is Balanced through the TF 75 and RAC 75... which by the way you can + or - to your individual Taste and wheel used... If adjusting TF/RAC i would - Not + once you set the FFB strength in the Car you like Most then the rest is simple in Car Masters can be + or - to get desired wheel weight/FFB strength per Car and you can set the Fx,Fy,Fz,Mz & SOP to bring out the things feel you want to feel most.

konnos

25-08-2016, 18:32

@Haiden If you haven't noticed, AC's engine does not handle AF and AA well and they have big effects on the framerate. It is a limited engine and not very well optimized and now it shows on weaker systems. Maybe with the announced tweaks for reflections etc they will fix this, but yes PCars runs a lot better on a weaker system.

Haiden

25-08-2016, 19:07

@Haiden If you haven't noticed, AC's engine does not handle AF and AA well and they have big effects on the framerate. It is a limited engine and not very well optimized and now it shows on weaker systems. Maybe with the announced tweaks for reflections etc they will fix this, but yes PCars runs a lot better on a weaker system.

Haven't really noticed. AC is fine on my system, looks great in 4K. In fact, graphically speaking, AC actually runs better than PCars. The frame rate is more stable. Not sure what you mean about not handling anti-aliasing or filtering well. I think the AA in PCars is terrible. It was the worst on Xb1, better on PS4, and even better still on PC, but it's still lacking, compared to other titles running on Ultra settings, and the poor AA shows it's ugly face a lot in the line draws. I have found that FXAA seems to work better than SMAA in PCars, though.

konnos

25-08-2016, 19:54

It's not well optimized and it hits systems very hard. PS4 and XbOne straggle as you can see, thus the decreased quality. AA and AF are lighter in PCars and you can enable eye candy without sacrifising too much fps, AC also puts harsher limits on cars on track, again a hard FPS hit, compared to PCars again.

GrimeyDog

25-08-2016, 20:08

https://youtu.be/rrgOQ1Q836c

TF/RAC 75 ported straight to PC no tweeking Needed...just plug it in and play.

found good Mix of ultra and high settings that maintain Good FPS thunderstorm conditions, 16 car Grid... My objective was not to win it was to stay in the mix of cars so i can see how the FPS behaves... i think it did pretty well.

Haiden

25-08-2016, 22:03

It's not well optimized and it hits systems very hard. PS4 and XbOne straggle as you can see, thus the decreased quality. AA and AF are lighter in PCars and you can enable eye candy without sacrifising too much fps, AC also puts harsher limits on cars on track, again a hard FPS hit, compared to PCars again.

I agree with that. I think it a catch 22, though. Reducing the graphic quality does make the game more accessible, performance wise. But then the game doesn't look as good as it could. Better graphics do hit the GPU harder, but the payoff is a beautiful looking game. Poor AA just hurts the immersion, because the lines are all shimmering at the edges.

GrimeyDog

25-08-2016, 23:26

Let me know what you think. I'm curious to know if you think the small boost in fps is worth the loss of resolution. For me, I don't really have choice, because the display is mounted to my rig. At that distance, 55" is a little too close to run at 1080p resolution...LOL

Its a tough Call on this 1!!! The 100+FPS Looks Silky Smooth!!! and Gaming1080p Graphics were always Good until i Got spoiled by Gaming in UHD!!! The UHD has More Immersion and Deatail But the Smoother 100+ FPS adds more Depth of Field, almost like you can Reach into the Screen.... Its a Very Hard Call on this 1...Once your in the Zone all i really see is Track and Corner Markers, Braking points... I will say that the UHD does excell in Immersion Factor in Rain conditions... But Silky Smooth 100+ FPS adds a really Crisp touch to Rain as your Racing... Really tough Call i could live with either or...the UHD has the Edge to Me because its a Curverd TV and the Deeper Center of Screen has a Very Good Immersion Factor just in its self.. .. But really its Win a Win either way.

GrimeyDog

26-08-2016, 01:27

PC, PCars ,TF/RAC 75 ,Formula A, Watkins short No FFB Oscillation!!!
Many of us have the same Equipment so if your a non Believer Then feel Free to try it for your self:yes:... You can always set the FFB strength either through the on wheel FFB settings for fanatec wheels or + or - to the in car Masters:yes: Other wheels you will have to set the at the wheel FFB strength level through the GM FFB... I suggest starting with the wheel manufactures recommended FFB setting then + or - until it feels right to you:yes:... then test in a car you know well and + or - the in car masters as needed per car until you have the FFB strength you like...You can use my in car settings or you can set the Fx,Fy,Fz,Mz & SOP to best bring out FFB effects you like to feel.

https://youtu.be/VFlOe9S91rk

BigDad

26-08-2016, 01:44

Haven't really noticed. AC is fine on my system, looks great in 4K. In fact, graphically speaking, AC actually runs better than PCars. The frame rate is more stable. Not sure what you mean about not handling anti-aliasing or filtering well. I think the AA in PCars is terrible. It was the worst on Xb1, better on PS4, and even better still on PC, but it's still lacking, compared to other titles running on Ultra settings, and the poor AA shows it's ugly face a lot in the line draws. I have found that FXAA seems to work better than SMAA in PCars, though.

I don't think much will be a struggle for your beast. Lol
GTX1080/ i7 combo is awesome

GrimeyDog

26-08-2016, 02:56

Morpwr This 1's for you:yes: Ellie sez Hello:cool: Awsome ride and really wild on cold tires!!! If i had time to push it until the tires got hot...Whooooa!!! Lotta lotta fun!!!

https://youtu.be/lsAWoMHn5Eg

(https://youtu.be/lsAWoMHn5Eg)

The Car Feels Just How it Looks!!! You can Notice that the Car has alot of Body Roll and Sway in the Video... You can Feel every Bit of that in the wheel!!!

I thought TF/TAC 75 was good on PS4... Im just Blown away by How much better it feels on PC...Not to mention it looks just Stunning in UHD!!!

GrimeyDog

26-08-2016, 03:42

The Sauber C9 is the mother of All Beast but even on cold tires I have sooo Much feel it had total control!!! TF/RAC 75 Cold to hot tire test!!! Straight out the pits watch the tire temps...this thing is awesome to drive!!! It wasn't about a hot lap it was about FFB test and feel... I can be push this car much Much harder!!! The FFB feel is much better than PS4!!!

Has any one else Noticed that after playing PCars on PS4 then Playing Same Car and Track on PC that your timing is off because you have to get used to the Higher FPS on PC..

BigDad

26-08-2016, 13:19

STICKIED ? bout time ! i couldn't find it .

BigDad

26-08-2016, 13:24

The Sauber C9 is the mother of All Beast but even on cold tires I have sooo Much feel it had total control!!! TF/RAC 75 Cold to hot tire test!!! Straight out the pits watch the tire temps...this thing is awesome to drive!!! It wasn't about a hot lap it was about FFB test and feel... I can be push this car much Much harder!!! The FFB feel is much better than PS4!!!

https://youtu.be/nHFGTLPn8Ak
You Guys still on console , don't listen to Grimey , PC gaming isn't "that much" better than console
It's THIS MUCH better .
Sorry i had to :0

Haiden

26-08-2016, 13:26

I was right... CSL stands for Clubsport Lite...LOL.

It looks like a good mid-range option, the only problem I have with it is the wheel. I own the CSL, and I hate it. But I'm sure I only hate it because I'm comparing it to the other rims I own. It's not leather and doesn't have a quick release. The lack of a quick release is my biggest gripe, but if there aren't any other wheels for this base, then that might not be a big deal...LOL

They also address the Sony issue at the bottom and say they expect to have a PS4 version of this base soon.

Has any one else Noticed that after playing PCars on PS4 then Playing Same Car and Track on PC that your timing is off because you have to get used to the Higher FPS on PC..

I wouldn't even know. I haven't played PS4 since I got my PC...LOL. I can't really do it easily anyway. I've got my pedals connected directly to get the higher resolution. In order to play on PS4, I have to remove the base and pedals from the rig to change connection types. That's a pain for so many reasons. I've got my cables all hidden in channels running along the frames of the rig. It's not worth the effort to me.

BigDad

26-08-2016, 13:42

I was right... CSL stands for Clubsport Lite...LOL.

It looks like a good mid-range option, the only problem I have with it is the wheel. I own the CSL, and I hate it. But I'm sure I only hate it because I'm comparing it to the other rims I own. It's not leather and doesn't have a quick release. The lack of a quick release is my biggest gripe, but if there aren't any other wheels for this base, then that might not be a big deal...LOL

They also address the Sony issue at the bottom and say they expect to have a PS4 version of this base soon.

It has compatibility with all CSW rims and all Pedals including CSR Elite . Looks like a far upgrade from my GT2.
Maybe for Christmas ;)

Haiden

26-08-2016, 14:07

It has compatibility with all CSW rims and all Pedals including CSR Elite . Looks like a far upgrade from my GT2.
Maybe for Christmas ;)

Where did you see that? In the press release they only mentioned the CSL for Xb1 and a new CSL Elite Assetto Corsa Edition, also for Xb1. With the CSW-v2, the rim is what determines which platform mode the base runs in. Most of Fanatec's wheels are PC/PS4, and the PS4 will no longer work with new titles. Fanatec only has three Xb1 options--the two CSL's mentioned above, and the Xb1 universal hub. So it seems the question is, when they get their Sony licensing worked out, will the existing PC/PS rim line work with this base? I'd assume so, because the current CSL is working with both, but it will interesting to see the final results.

Looks like a decent wheel, though. The pedals seem well made and they have a load cell version, definitely better than Logitech and Thrustmaster's standard sets. And pedals make all the difference. Pricing is on the press release, about $640 USD, for a base, load cell pedal set, and wheel.

BigDad

26-08-2016, 14:45

https://www.fanatec.com/au-en/wheel-bases/csl-elite-wheel-base-aus.html
here at the bottom .
It does look pretty sweet and i think that price could be tempting after i recover from my PC purchace .
Have you any idea when this patch 1.8 is coming for Assetto Corsa ?New free and paid content looks cool .

Haiden

26-08-2016, 15:12

https://www.fanatec.com/au-en/wheel-bases/csl-elite-wheel-base-aus.html
here at the bottom .
It does look pretty sweet and i think that price could be tempting after i recover from my PC purchace .
Have you any idea when this patch 1.8 is coming for Assetto Corsa ?New free and paid content looks cool .

Oh, yeah... for PC, you'll fine. But for console, it's only for Xb1 right now and only works with those three Xb1 wheels. When they get their PS4 license, I'm pretty sure you will need a PS4 compatible wheel to make it work.

GrimeyDog

26-08-2016, 16:14

That Wheel and Pedal set Looks like a Sweet Bundle!!! its Priced pretty Fair considering you get a all Metal Load Cell pedal set with it also!!!!

PS4 wheel will be coming soon... I dont think it be out before TM's New wheel and Gt sport... TM may have a Exclusive deal with sony that Blocks other wheels until a certain date after Gt sports Launch because their New wheel is Gt sport branded... Thats How it goes with business Deals Now days... PS and XB still Scrap to get DLC released first to their systems first. Sucks but just how it goes.

Also Good Specs on it too 6NM of force... Not too Shabby... Single belt driven with 1080 DOR!!! Not bad at all... I wonder how the single belt improves performance and response time??? It may Not be as Strong as a v2 but it may be just as Good... Maybe better even due to New perfected Tec... Hmmm.... V3 coming soon Maybe??? Hmmm i wonder.

I think the V2 only puts out 8... Any 1 kniw the exact NM force the V2 puts out???

I dunno about the CSW v2/ v1...we will get comoatability but we may be locked out in the cold for a while before it comes.

Haiden

26-08-2016, 17:19

I dunno about the CSW v2/ v1...we will get comoatability but we may be locked out in the cold for a while before it comes.

Locked out of what? Everything I'm intrested in playing is on PC...LOL

GrimeyDog

26-08-2016, 17:51

Locked out of what? Everything I'm intrested in playing is on PC...LOL

Agree 100% LOL

GrimeyDog

26-08-2016, 19:38

Congratulations to All that post and share their knowledge and give input on Pcars FFB!!! We are stickyed:yes::yes::yes: Even though many have different methods for setting Pcars FFB we still stand united as 1 with 1 common Goal... To make Pcars FFB the best that it can be for the Pcars community:yes:
I salute and thank you all for sharing your FFB input... Sim Racers United as 1:loyal:

GrimeyDog:victorious:

morpwr

26-08-2016, 20:53

Congratulations to All that post and share their knowledge and give input on Pcars FFB!!! We are stickyed:yes::yes::yes: Even though many have different methods for setting Pcars FFB we still stand united as 1 with 1 common Goal... To make Pcars FFB the best that it can be for the Pcars community:yes:
I salute and thank you all for sharing your FFB input... Sim Racers United as 1:loyal:

GrimeyDog:victorious:

I saw that when I went to look for the forum. I was like where did it go?lol Then saw it had been stickied. Congratulations!!!

GrimeyDog

27-08-2016, 00:18

Direct comparison Videos PC vs PS4 FFB Graphs...Videos are same track,Time of Day, Weather and FOV...All settings shown in video to confirm that PC and PS4 are using same Exact FFB settings and Both have great FFB and Road Feel No extra tweeking Needed... Compare the FFB Graphs

Haiden which ffb settings did you settle on? I just cant get the 3.0 ones to work no matter what I change. It actually worked out good because I had a 4 day brake before trying them again. So sort of a fresh start. I wasn't bouncing back and forth between 2.9 and 3.0. I see what he was trying to do because some of the forces feel clearer but the important ones to me like how the wheel feels in a corner just feels off. Sort of just heavy and stays that way with no real feel to it. Almost seems like somewhere between these and the last ones would have been perfect.

I updated my globals. All I needed to do was reduce SG, and everything feels fine again. I think the combination of going to PC and the v3.0 tweaker files made it hard to puzzle out. I never got a chance to compare the V3.0 files to the v2.9 on PS4, and that was what I had been used to. So, I decided to go with the v3.0 settings across the board. The only car that was a little off was the FA. I raised Mz from 20 to 35, and it felt fine again.

Anyway, instead of messing with the in-car settings, I downloaded Jack tweaker files and installed them (so much easier than having to set each car manually). I went into the config for the FA to raise the Mz scale, and that's when I realized something. Using the tweaker files, you can adjust the scales in single digit increments. Adjusting them in-game you're often forced to round up or down. Do you think it's possible that those small incremental differences are why you don't seem to be getting the same results?

Jack Spade

27-08-2016, 07:35

I updated my globals. All I needed to do was reduce SG, and everything feels fine again. I think the combination of going to PC and the v3.0 tweaker files made it hard to puzzle out. I never got a chance to compare the V3.0 files to the v2.9 on PS4, and that was what I had been used to. So, I decided to go with the v3.0 settings across the board. The only car that was a little off was the FA. I raised Mz from 20 to 35, and it felt fine again.

Anyway, instead of messing with the in-car settings, I downloaded Jack tweaker files and installed them (so much easier than having to set each car manually). I went into the config for the FA to raise the Mz scale, and that's when I realized something. Using the tweaker files, you can adjust the scales in single digit increments. Adjusting them in-game you're often forced to round up or down. Do you think it's possible that those small incremental differences are why you don't seem to be getting the same results?

It depends, Fy is a strong force a small step up/down could have a grater impact than a larger step on a much weaker force like SopLat.

Haiden

27-08-2016, 12:58

It depends, Fy is a strong force a small step up/down could have a grater impact than a larger step on a much weaker force like SopLat.

Exactly, and the comments about the wheel just feeling heavy in the corners, does sound like what can happen when Fy is too high.

BigDad

27-08-2016, 13:48

So has anyone had a GPU perform way better than expected just before dying ?
I'm concerned , Last night i had to turn a few things down to medium and leave the rest on high to run R3e @4K above 60fps but tonight i'm getting 100+fps with same settings at same tracks and same cars .
I'm now able to have everything at max except shadows which stay at medium and fxaa off and still getting 70fps . ???
Got me confused ! But i'm also happy with this new found performance .

I updated my globals. All I needed to do was reduce SG, and everything feels fine again. I think the combination of going to PC and the v3.0 tweaker files made it hard to puzzle out. I never got a chance to compare the V3.0 files to the v2.9 on PS4, and that was what I had been used to. So, I decided to go with the v3.0 settings across the board. The only car that was a little off was the FA. I raised Mz from 20 to 35, and it felt fine again.

Anyway, instead of messing with the in-car settings, I downloaded Jack tweaker files and installed them (so much easier than having to set each car manually). I went into the config for the FA to raise the Mz scale, and that's when I realized something. Using the tweaker files, you can adjust the scales in single digit increments. Adjusting them in-game you're often forced to round up or down. Do you think it's possible that those small incremental differences are why you don't seem to be getting the same results?

Yes not being able to go single or in the cars of sop it counts by 10s can screw console players. Sop diff adds or subtracts quite a bit of wheel weight. I spent 3 more hours last night trying to make an improvement and really found nothing good. Turning tf down to 60 helped some but still have so many things missing and a heavy wheel. Not as bad but still no difference in weight when cornering it just goes heavy and stays there plus still missing a lot of other forces. Its almost like it put everything right in the same range so it just saturates the wheel. I'm going to give it one more shot then I'm just sticking with 2.9. They work great and with so many other games coming out I just don't want to spend any more time I could be racing tweaking.

BigDad

27-08-2016, 14:29

235563
Yet AC's performance stayed about the same .

GrimeyDog

27-08-2016, 14:36

So has anyone had a GPU perform way better than expected just before dying ?
I'm concerned , Last night i had to turn a few things down to medium and leave the rest on high to run R3e @4K above 60fps but tonight i'm getting 100+fps with same settings at same tracks and same cars .
I'm now able to have everything at max except shadows which stay at medium and fxaa off and still getting 70fps . ???
Got me confused ! But i'm also happy with this new found performance .

PC peforms better when CPU is cold... when its Hot the PC will throttle back performance to protect its self... Maybe you should turn off the OC... 60 - 68 is Not too Hot but You are Very Close to the Edge and the CPU is throttling Back performance!!!

BigDad

27-08-2016, 14:51

PC peforms better when CPU is cold... when its Hot the PC will throttle back performance to protect its self... Maybe you should turn off the OC... 60 - 68 is Not too Hot but You are Very Close to the Edge and the CPU is throttling Back performance!!!
Those R3E numbers were after playing for 2 hours so the GPU/CPU definitely are not cold . My GPU gets to 68 deg.C max (but tonight 45 degC) not my CPU it's usually max 40 deg.C

That's a nice score 15000 compared to my 10000 . Your CPU is about 20C hotter than mine . look at the bottom of my pic at the Afterburner overlay , it has all 4 core temps from my CPU . same CPU as yours . Your cooler might not be that great at cooling . How many fans are on that cooler ?

GrimeyDog

27-08-2016, 17:02

That's a nice score 15000 compared to my 10000 . Your CPU is about 20C hotter than mine . look at the bottom of my pic at the Afterburner overlay , it has all 4 core temps from my CPU . same CPU as yours . Your cooler might not be that great at cooling . How many fans are on that cooler ?

56C Thats the Max Temp that i Have Seen it run at... Even after Long 5+ hrs and All Day Use...Im using the Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo...I guess its working pretty Good...

Haiden

27-08-2016, 17:04

Yes not being able to go single or in the cars of sop it counts by 10s can screw console players. Sop diff adds or subtracts quite a bit of wheel weight. I spent 3 more hours last night trying to make an improvement and really found nothing good. Turning tf down to 60 helped some but still have so many things missing and a heavy wheel. Not as bad but still no difference in weight when cornering it just goes heavy and stays there plus still missing a lot of other forces. Its almost like it put everything right in the same range so it just saturates the wheel. I'm going to give it one more shot then I'm just sticking with 2.9. They work great and with so many other games coming out I just don't want to spend any more time I could be racing tweaking.

I hear you. That's why I just installed the tweaker files. It's easier than entering them again, for the umpteenth time...LOL

Haiden

27-08-2016, 17:11

Mine's liquid cooled. The eight cores stay frosty. :)

Cores 1-3 run at around 30-35 degress
Cores 4-8 run at around 20-28 degress

GPU heats up until the fans click on, then it stops at 60 degrees, holds there for a few seconds then runs at a steady 59 degrees.

Grimey - See the load time difference. SSD loads almost twice as fast.

235566

GrimeyDog

27-08-2016, 19:07

Mine's liquid cooled. The eight cores stay frosty. :)

Cores 1-3 run at around 30-35 degress
Cores 4-8 run at around 20-28 degress

GPU heats up until the fans click on, then it stops at 60 degrees, holds there for a few seconds then runs at a steady 59 degrees.

Grimey - See the load time difference. SSD loads almost twice as fast.

235566

I can see where the 2x 1070 sli gives a good boost in the score... i have to readjust the settings for AC i havent played it Much because i like Pcars more... I havent even tried R3E on the PC yet... LOL.
Interesting...I only have Core usage monitoring enabled...So i dint know what the thread core temp is but i guess if the CPU temp is Good thread core temps are Stable too ... I dunno...
I think i can get a better score... I didnt even truely Know what the test was doing or trying to tell Me... I have No clue whats a good score or bad score...LOL... I just ran it and took a pic of the screen so i can monitor what changes as i adjust settings on the PC....that was late Last Night before i shut down... just random coincidence Big Dad posted the score and i had taken that pic last night.

Maybe i will change Pcars back to the SSD... I Dunno.

I been busey exploring the PC Limits and settings trying to see what it really cab do!!!... Its My First Pure Gaming PC build so i got a lot of exploring and Learning to do.

Ive dont like the way windows 10 screen Scaling... then you have to set your TV to fit to screen... My other PC is Not Like that.

Haiden

27-08-2016, 20:24

I can see where the 2x 1070 sli gives a good boost in the score... i have to readjust the settings for AC i havent played it Much because i like Pcars more... I havent even tried R3E on the PC yet... LOL.
Interesting...I only have Core usage monitoring enabled...So i dint know what the thread core temp is but i guess if the CPU temp is Good thread core temps are Stable too ... I dunno...
I think i can get a better score... I didnt even truely Know what the test was doing or trying to tell Me... I have No clue whats a good score or bad score...LOL... I just ran it and took a pic of the screen so i can monitor what changes as i adjust settings on the PC....that was late Last Night before i shut down... just random coincidence Big Dad posted the score and i had taken that pic last night.

Maybe i will change Pcars back to the SSD... I Dunno.

I been busey exploring the PC Limits and settings trying to see what it really cab do!!!... Its My First Pure Gaming PC build so i got a lot of exploring and Learning to do.

Ive dont like the way windows 10 screen Scaling... then you have to set your TV to fit to screen... My other PC is Not Like that.

The SSD will only really change the loads. The game will run the same. But 10 seconds does make a difference. It's easy for me to go in and out of sessions to make setup and option changes, because it loads so quick.

Not sure that's Windows10. I have Windows10, and the TV displays the image at Full 16:9, automatically.

I've been playing a lot more AC and R3E. I still enjoy PCars, and get into the drive whenever I'm playing, though. The FFB is sorted, and the tweaker files in place. I just like variety and AC and R3E have cars and tracks that PCars doesn't. I'm also diggin' the sound in AC and R3E. I hope PCars2 has more interior and chassis sounds, because that really adds to the immersion and goes nice with the screen shake.

Edit: Oh, don't really worry so much about the score, in terms of what's good or bad. It's meant to represent your benchmark, so you know whether the changes you're making are improving the performance. Just tweak the settings to give you the highest score you can get with the level of graphic detail you prefer.

GrimeyDog

27-08-2016, 23:24

The SSD will only really change the loads. The game will run the same. But 10 seconds does make a difference. It's easy for me to go in and out of sessions to make setup and option changes, because it loads so quick.

Not sure that's Windows10. I have Windows10, and the TV displays the image at Full 16:9, automatically.

I've been playing a lot more AC and R3E. I still enjoy PCars, and get into the drive whenever I'm playing, though. The FFB is sorted, and the tweaker files in place. I just like variety and AC and R3E have cars and tracks that PCars doesn't. I'm also diggin' the sound in AC and R3E. I hope PCars2 has more interior and chassis sounds, because that really adds to the immersion and goes nice with the screen shake.

Edit: Oh, don't really worry so much about the score, in terms of what's good or bad. It's meant to represent your benchmark, so you know whether the changes you're making are improving the performance. Just tweak the settings to give you the highest score you can get with the level of graphic detail you prefer.

its Windows 10 there are may blogs about how windows 10 scales the display... maybe explore windows and look for the scaling options you will see... windows recommends 300% scaling for My TV... Shrugggs... But any way pic looks great so Not worried about much i just like to fully explore things.

I just Maxed every thing out in AC it ran fine no big deal... think i may cut some stuff down... until stuff looks normal... no jaggies or anything but the picture is Hyper sharp and bright.... I dunno i will play with it when i can tear my self away from Pcars.

Edit: i figured it out i don't set the TV in PC mode, I always just use game mode on the TV...when i set PC mode the picture quality is not as good as game mode.

Haiden

27-08-2016, 23:41

I know about scaling, I've been on Windows10 for a while now, and I'm pretty familiar with Windows in general. I'm an IT director. :) Win7 did it, too.

Regardless which scaling setting I use, though, the TV still displays in Full Mode automatically. Windows recommended 300% for me, too. It's just because of the display size/resolution. I currently have my scaling set to 150%. Different programs can respond differently to the scaling. PCars is pretty much unaffected at 150%. Both the menus and gameplay FOV are the same. AC's menus get very small at 150%, but the FOV stays the same. At 100%, the FOV looked a little odd in AC. I tolerate the smaller menus in AC, because the scaling has almost the opposite affect in R3E. The menus get a little sharper, but the FOV really gets a lot narrower, which actually makes the standard x1 FOV fit perfectly.

Just set your scaling to 100%, and see how that looks. It'll just make your mouse pointer and app windows smaller. Check how it affects your FOV, and increase it from there, if needed. I'm not sure why your TV doesn't display it Full Mode. Both of my TV do, regardless of the scaling setting.

I was driving on the Nords Combine yesterday, and there were moments when the scenery looked absolutely life like. :)

BigDad

28-08-2016, 04:06

Mine's liquid cooled. The eight cores stay frosty. :)

Cores 1-3 run at around 30-35 degress
Cores 4-8 run at around 20-28 degress

GPU heats up until the fans click on, then it stops at 60 degrees, holds there for a few seconds then runs at a steady 59 degrees.

Grimey - See the load time difference. SSD loads almost twice as fast.

235566

Wow , My GTX 1060 scored (10070) nearly the same as your GTX 1080 (10301) with very similar settings and about the same fps. Sweet . My little card really punches above it's weight .
Grimey you could remove fxaa and blur drop AF to 8 and increase AA to 4 and see increase in performance (more fps)and no visual downgrade really.

Haiden

28-08-2016, 07:46

Wow , My GTX 1060 scored (10070) nearly the same as your GTX 1080 (10301) with very similar settings and about the same fps. Sweet . My little card really punches above it's weight .
Grimey you could remove fxaa and blur drop AF to 8 and increase AA to 4 and see increase in performance (more fps)and no visual downgrade really.

Other than cores and clock speed, there really isn't much difference between the cards. Triple screen performance might vary more.

Yeah , its a pretty sweet card .
I've also turned on rays now and think the AA at 4 helps quite a bit and AF from 16 down to 8 didn't make much visual difference but did increase fps heaps and FXAA made it blurry .
This PC gaming is fricken awesome , I just downloaded Automobilista , only tried with a game pad so far but the Formula cars seem mad and there's a lot of different types to choose from .
The tyre pick up and flat spot tech is pretty impressive . Visually you can see the flat spot and the car definitely is vibrating , i'm sure it will translate through our wheels .
I'm not sure how i'm supposed to find time to play all these games . First World problems. Lucky i don't have to go to work , hey!

GrimeyDog

28-08-2016, 09:59

Holy Crap!!! The ABS Rumble Rim and Pedals Work on Pcars for PC!!! Neither of them worked on PS4!!!

Haiden

28-08-2016, 14:55

Yeah , its a pretty sweet card .
I've also turned on rays now and think the AA at 4 helps quite a bit and AF from 16 down to 8 didn't make much visual difference but did increase fps heaps and FXAA made it blurry .
This PC gaming is fricken awesome , I just downloaded Automobilista , only tried with a game pad so far but the Formula cars seem mad and there's a lot of different types to choose from .
The tyre pick up and flat spot tech is pretty impressive . Visually you can see the flat spot and the car definitely is vibrating , i'm sure it will translate through our wheels .
I'm not sure how i'm supposed to find time to play all these games . First World problems. Lucky i don't have to go to work , hey!

The tire model on that one looks sick, and I really like the track evolution. I'm gonna stick to the three I have right now--PCars, AC, and R3E. Barely enough time to play them all, as it is. Definitely a First World problem...LOL

I've got PCars and AC dialed in, and I'm just about done with R3E, too. Each game has cars and tracks the other doesn't, so I like switching between them. I love the DTM class in R3E. I raced the BMW at Slovakia, and was pretty intense. Started last, and worked my way up to finish 3rd. It was so much fun. The Prototype 2 class is also a lot of fun in R3E. I like PCars' LMP1 class, but the LMP2s in R3E are much better than that class is in PCars.

I also, did my first online race in R3E. It was a 12 car grid, and I couldn't believe how clean everyone was racing. One thing I've noticed between the games is that PCars' physics model is a little grippier than the others. I find myself able to brake way later in PCars and still trail brake pretty hard deep into the corner, while still maintaining control of the car. In AC and R3E, you really have to be on line, modulate the pedals, and remained focus on feeling the car to pull off a late braking maneuver. I think the ease of physics in PCars is also one of the reasons you get a lot of crashers in the corners. In AC and R3E, you're simply too focused on making the corner to mess around. You can't shunt in an maintain control, and rear-ended an opponent unsettles your car almost as much as it does theirs. I hope PCars2 implements something to make it less advantageous for crashers to be idiots.

I think good sims titles coming to console is really changing the genre for PC as well. I think the real sim developers (not the arcade titles) are going to start looking at console as an entry platform, a place where they can hook people on sim racing for cheaper. If you're into racing, once you get the bug, it's hard to stop the progression. And the more people there are, whether it be on console or PC, the more developers will fight for their cash by making better titles. Toss in the increasing processing power, constantly improving immersion factors, and the increasing official recognition of consumer sims in the professional racing world, and you've got a gaming genre that's just ready to explode. :)

BigDad

28-08-2016, 15:36

I;ve been racing the WTCC in R3E around some unfamiliar tracks , brilliant . As well as having Suzuka again , mad .
I don't usually like front wheel drive cars in sims let alone real life but the way they drives in R3E makes me rethink the whole idea . I like watching the WTCC on TV now i'm enjoying racing them .
i think i will use AC as my road car sim and R3E for race cars .
As for Automobilista you need to use your GPU's AA settings as the game does not have any ,(a bit of a pain) and it is a very simple looking game but i think given enough chance it will be quite good , simply for the track evolution and tyre model alone , if you can look past the simplistic graphics . I only gave it about an hour tonight as R3E was calling then a bit of Crysis 3 just for a benchmark test but got absorbed into the story .lol

Haiden

28-08-2016, 15:47

I;ve been racing the WTCC in R3E around some unfamiliar tracks , brilliant . As well as having Suzuka again , mad .
I don't usually like front wheel drive cars in sims let alone real life but the way they drives in R3E makes me rethink the whole idea . I like watching the WTCC on TV now i'm enjoying racing them .
i think i will use AC as my road car sim and R3E for race cars .
As for Automobilista you need to use your GPU's AA settings as the game does not have any ,(a bit of a pain) and it is a very simple looking game but i think given enough chance it will be quite good , simply for the track evolution and tyre model alone , if you can look past the simplistic graphics . I only gave it about an hour tonight as R3E was calling then a bit of Crysis 3 just for a benchmark test but got absorbed into the story .lol

I love WTCC, too. I think I'm going to get that pack, as well. That's another thing about Automobilista--the graphics are little Spartan. :) I think I'll wait to see how it improves.

I forgot about Crysis. I only ever played it on console, but I remember it being a pretty resource intensive game on PC. Might give that a shot. Mirror's Edge is another I'm thinking about re-buying on Steam. I really liked that one.

Also, that Helicorsa app you recommended is pretty awesome. :)

BigDad

28-08-2016, 15:58

I love WTCC, too. I think I'm going to get that pack, as well. That's another thing about Automobilista--the graphics are little Spartan. :) I think I'll wait to see how it improves.

I forgot about Crysis. I only ever played it on console, but I remember it being a pretty resource intensive game on PC. Might give that a shot. Mirror's Edge is another I'm thinking about re-buying on Steam. I really liked that one.

Also, that Helicorsa app you recommended is pretty awesome. :)

Automobilista was just released out of early access the other day so i think they must be fairly happy with it .
Crysis 3 @3840x2160 on my card all high settings and msaa x2 gets 35 fps min so just playable , it never drops below 30 so i'm pretty content there . Its on Origin now for $10 aud .
I wish in AC you could turn off the proximity arrows and just use Helicorsa , i find it pretty useful .

Haiden

28-08-2016, 16:33

Automobilista was just released out of early access the other day so i think they must be fairly happy with it .
Crysis 3 @3840x2160 on my card all high settings and msaa x2 gets 35 fps min so just playable , it never drops below 30 so i'm pretty content there . Its on Origin now for $10 aud .
I wish in AC you could turn off the proximity arrows and just use Helicorsa , i find it pretty useful .

Yep. If the Arrows were an app, like Helicorsa, then you could just use the one that you prefer. I definitely like Helicorsa for multiplayer, but wonder if it's a little too much information in single player, from an immersion perspective. In single player, the arrows make you aware of a car, but then you still have to use your Left/Right Look to see exactly where he is, and you can still sometimes lose cars in blind spots. IDK, to me, that seems a little more realistic. But for multiplayer, Helicorsa is a must. With my screen so close, the top quarter of the view is usually the roof of the car of all sky in open wheel. So I can leave apps open and still have them out of my driving view. Helicorsa is right below the rear view mirror, but still high enough that's sits in my upper peripheral view and above the horizon. I love how it just fades in and out when needed. It's great to know when someone's approaching and see the line they're coming up on. And, basically, you just have peace of mind going into a corner, because you know that when the overlay isn't active, there's absolutely no one around to interfere with your line, so you can just focus. :)

GrimeyDog

28-08-2016, 18:35

I just picked up the wireless MS contoller adapter for windows 10... I figured i would give yhe thunb sticks on the wheel rimna break... they are pretty good Quality but i just want to lay off them a bit to ensure i get the Most Life as possible from the wheel rims... also using a controller to navigate the Menu is what im used to from PS4... Feels like old times again just better!!! it was only $21. after my $5. rewards coupon!!! about time i get to use them!!! Ive had many many rewards coupon go to waste because they expire!!! IMO they should last fir ever until you need to use them.

GrimeyDog

28-08-2016, 18:38

Haiden/Big Dad can you share/Snap shot your race room wheel settings... I got them half way sorted but only Half way... id rather just buy content and Race right Now with out testing tweeking wheel settings.

GrimeyDog

28-08-2016, 19:57

LOL... Check out the specs to run it Maxed out!!! it actually has a UHD setting @60HTz and Delivers a solid silky Smooth 60FPS +... Im Linited to 60FPS because i always use V Sync to keep the FPS and picture Quality Stable.

For what it cost i highly recommend getting Race 07 and all of its content!!! its a oldie but Goodie!!! You will be surprised just how Good it is and how well it handles!!! it was way ahead of its time!!!

Edit: Holy Shizzle!!! I am Really just Blown away by just how good Race 07 feels!!! It Feels very Much like Assetto corsa/R3E!!!

Haiden

28-08-2016, 23:31

Haiden/Big Dad can you share/Snap shot your race room wheel settings... I got them half way sorted but only Half way... id rather just buy content and Race right Now with out testing tweeking wheel settings.

Not really sure how to do that. The settings scroll down in that small window.

Haiden

29-08-2016, 11:59

Hopped into multiplayer on PCars. I'd only raced on session before. Last night was great. There are a lot of servers on the list, but most of them are empty. The number of active servers varies, but seems to usually be less than what you get on console. The difference, at least last night, was the racing. Each session went surprisingly well. The first had about 30 cars on the grid, and I only got on quali lap in, so I was like 20 something on the grid. PCars screwed up the start and had some glitch wrecking/flipping cars, even though we were all standing still on the starting line. A lot of the cars got crashed out by the system glitch. My windshield was shattered, and I almost quit, but I decided to give it a lap (14 lap race), and was surprised to find the remaining cars all driving respectfully. I stayed in the race and ended up finishing 3rd, taking the position on the last lap. It was a great race.

After, more than half of the server vacated, and we were down to 6 people. The new host added a 5 min practice and capped the grind at 24. The session filled up again during the practice and quali rounds, but with more than half the grid being new, I was prepared for a different experience. The top 6 cars qualified all within a second of each other (the top four were within .500). I qualified 3rd, but was totally ready to be crashed out at the first turn (Dubai). The race starts, and everyone jumps of the grid, barrels down the straight, and then, much to my surprise, everyone allowed enough braking time and we got through turn one with maybe just a few rubs. It was awesome. I took 1st in that one. The next two sessions were at Donnington. Same change in server players (about 6 of us remained). Again super clean driving. They were even respectful during qualifying--actually pulling off track to allow other through when they were on an out lap or had already blown their hot lap. That really surprised me. People were even slowing down/waiting at the end of pit lane when they saw traffic coming. In the last race, the last few laps, I was trying to get a run on the leader. We caught up to the backfield, and I was like, "Yes!" Because I thought that would slow him down. To my surprise, he flashes his lights, and the lapped car actually gave us both room to pass. I was like, WTF? Where am I? LOL

I admit, it was only my second time online, but I can't say I've ever had four sessions go that well on console. Totally different experience. In the second session we had one guy that would just cut through the chicane at Watkins at full speed and take the five second penalty, because even with the penalty coasting, it was still faster than taking the turn, and he'd gain a couple spots each time. He was kicked in no time. :) I really hated having to shutdown last night...LOL. I know there's got to be a bad lot on PC, too, but I never had four excellent sessions like that in a row on console, unless it was a private session. If that's indicative of MP on PC, I'm going to very happy.

GrimeyDog

29-08-2016, 14:41

Has any 1 else ever Noticed this???

Pic 1 is in Dry weather with Sift Slicks, the tire friction rings are perfectly Round.

Pic 2 is in the Rain with Rain tires... The Friction Rings warp to a oblong shape.

Yes i know they are different cars... that doesnt matter... My point is this only Happens in the Rain and its o ly the tire Friction Rings Nothing else distorts or warps...Hmmm interesting... The Car Drives and Handles Fine though... I just thought it was Odd... This drove Me Crazy the other day... I thought My GPU and TV settings were Off... after testing and checking all settings multiple times.. 19x or more:yes: i fiured out it only happens on wet tires in the Rain... Shrugggs

As a rule of thumb your game will be smooth at 60 fps (frames per second) for a shooter. In more static games, such as real time strategy or racing, you can get away with 30 fps. This can be explained by the following table

At 15 fps there will be 66ms between every frame. Meaning that if you move your mouse it will take 66ms before this action is reflected on your screen. This excludes additional latencies such as input lag and lag introduced by the game.

Here's a link to the website/page. http://www.gameplayinside.com/optimize/how-to-check-your-frame-rate-and-gpu-usage-in-any-game/

GrimeyDog

29-08-2016, 15:22

I was gettings a Steady 55 to 60 FPS... It just warps because it even happens at slow speeds with No other cars on the track with FPS constantly pinned at 60.

GrimeyDog

29-08-2016, 16:39

I been looking at Monitor Prices just to take a Look...the 8ms or less refresh rate is very apealing:yes: ATM i do Not intend on buying 1 but its Good to Have the pricing info... Monitors are Not Only Small 35 to 37 are very available at mid range prices... you can get 3x montors for the price of a Good TV ....40+ sizes are really hard to Find and they are just too Dam expensive!!!

From what i have been reading i dont even think its possible that you can play Games in UHD over 60HTz....1080p: 60+FPS yes: UHD 60+FPS No. Not unless you spend some major $$$

Haiden

29-08-2016, 17:41

I been looking at Monitor Prices just to take a Look...the 8ms or less refresh rate is very apealing:yes: ATM i do Not intend on buying 1 but its Good to Have the pricing info... Monitors are Not Only Small 35 to 37 are very available at mid range prices... you can get 3x montors for the price of a Good TV ....40+ sizes are really hard to Find and they are just too Dam expensive!!!

From what i have been reading i dont even think its possible that you can play Games in UHD over 60HTz....1080p: 60+FPS yes: UHD 60+FPS No. Not unless you spend some major $$$

Anything under 20ms is considered excellent. Not sure you'll find a TV under 10ms--more likely a PC monitor. And I think LG, Asus, and BenQ are the better options for low latency displays. That said, the difference between 10-25ms is so small, most people couldn't detect it without an app. And unless, you're playing twitch-oriented titles, like first person shooters, it probably makes little difference to the overall experience. After all, we're talking milliseconds. :)

Haiden

29-08-2016, 21:06

Was checking old files, and came across the guide today. Opened it up, started reading, and realized I had totally forgotten about this...

The Force Feedback system was developed with two goals in mind:

1. Be as simple as much as possible such that all parameters may be exposed in the
GUI

2. Handle well the nuances in the variety of wheels supported

We think that some force feedback parameters are best served by being in the car setups.
Two basic goals of setup are balance and feel. FFB is very important to feel, and how a car is
setup may benefit from setup specific FFB adjustments. This is fundamentally a concession
that simulation racing is a sport similar to, but distinct from, real life racing. In real life racing
we deal with things not relevant to sim racing such as seat belt tension, visor choice, suit
ventilation, and wrenching changes in the hot sun. In sim racing we have FFB latency,
dynamic range, and non linearity as some of those things we have to deal with that real life
racing does not.

So we put the parts of FFB adjustment that couple with traditional setup in with traditional
setup. In other words we are saying part of FFB can be part of setting up a sim car. This
way some FFB parameters will couple, and therefore save and transfer, with the setup they
are matched to. Therefore there is a Force Feedback tab in the setup GUI.

An example of why this makes sense is the fact that adjusting caster will change FFB
magnitude. Caster is inarguably a valid setup parameter. But it is also inarguable that the
FFB changes with caster. So it directly follows that a FFB that feels good with a particular
caster will need FFB adjustment if the caster is adjusted (to feel as good). Other obvious
examples include changing tire choice or steering ratio, but almost anything in setup can have
similar considerations.

Another case to be made is track considerations. For example, a setup for Montreal might
stress Fx more, leveraging limited device dynamic range for heightened braking feel. On the
other hand, a setup for Indy might have no Fx at all, to focus in more on onedge Fy and Mz,
or maybe even lean mostly on Seat of Pants and Gut.

I think this explains a lot about the FFB design and intention. I think I mentioned before how FFB setup depends on what you want from the game and that a serious sim player, competing online professionally, would be a fool not to tune his FFB to favor information over realism. But a casual player who isn't competing professionally, might favors realism across the board. That's a simplification, because the range of individual player preference is probably broad and varied. It's these differences that make the FFB discussion so lively and, sometimes, even contentious. But it really is a up to you to decide what you want from your feedback and how you want it to feel. :)

Here's a link to the full guide. If you haven't already checked it out. It's worth the read. And, even if you have, it's worth a re-skim, especially if it's been a while. We've all learned a lot since the game released, so things might read differently to us now.

Pic 1 is in Dry weather with Sift Slicks, the tire friction rings are perfectly Round.

Pic 2 is in the Rain with Rain tires... The Friction Rings warp to a oblong shape.

Yes i know they are different cars... that doesnt matter... My point is this only Happens in the Rain and its o ly the tire Friction Rings Nothing else distorts or warps...Hmmm interesting... The Car Drives and Handles Fine though... I just thought it was Odd... This drove Me Crazy the other day... I thought My GPU and TV settings were Off... after testing and checking all settings multiple times.. 19x or more:yes: i fiured out it only happens on wet tires in the Rain... Shrugggs

come on ;-) you know the reason. wet track surface reduces lateral tire load more than the tire load in x-direction (braking and acceleration). just proves the tire physic model works properly... Pcars onscreen telemetry with tire's friction circle is a bliss. wished it'd be there during replays too.

morpwr

29-08-2016, 22:30

come on ;-) you know the reason. wet track surface reduces lateral tire load more than the tire load in x-direction (braking and acceleration). just proves the tire physic model works properly... Pcars onscreen telemetry with tire's friction circle is a bliss. wished it'd be there during replays too.

Here's a link to the website/page. http://www.gameplayinside.com/optimize/how-to-check-your-frame-rate-and-gpu-usage-in-any-game/

And to think most ps4 games are at 30fps, from GTAV to the Witcher even Drive Club and they all seem quite playable. Having everything at 60+fps just spoils us.

BigDad

30-08-2016, 04:16

Anything under 20ms is considered excellent. Not sure you'll find a TV under 10ms--more likely a PC monitor. And I think LG, Asus, and BenQ are the better options for low latency displays. That said, the difference between 10-25ms is so small, most people couldn't detect it without an app. And unless, you're playing twitch-oriented titles, like first person shooters, it probably makes little difference to the overall experience. After all, we're talking milliseconds. :)

My Sony UHD is 3840x2160@60 with 39ms and 120fps @1080p. I prefer 3840x2160p any day.
I still use a controller for all games other than racers and they have a large response time and i dont notice lag. If I was serious about response time I'd be using a keyboard and mouse.

BigDad

30-08-2016, 09:30

Man, I'm on holidays away from my pc and all I want to do is go home and play, lol....not really...
Well sort of...

vahagn_hayk

30-08-2016, 10:22

did make the switch to PC too @Haiden @GrimeyDog, see you guys on track hopefully soon!

GrimeyDog

30-08-2016, 11:19

The Word is in! No CSW or Current Gen wheel support on PS4 with New Racing titles!!! Sony Shot down the Hub/Rim Combo so only New Wheel Bases will work... It was stated that while only New bases will work you May still be abke to use Current Rims...Looks Like V2 and other wheel bases are out unless Sony Changes its policy again.

GrimeyDog

30-08-2016, 11:23

did make the switch to PC too @Haiden @GrimeyDog, see you guys on track hopefully soon!

Good to Hear that... I will send you a steam Friend inv....Hope to See you on the Track soon.... Vrooom Vrooom. LOL

Haiden

30-08-2016, 12:01

My Sony UHD is 3840x2160@60 with 39ms and 120fps @1080p. I prefer 3840x2160p any day.
I still use a controller for all games other than racers and they have a large response time and i dont notice lag. If I was serious about response time I'd be using a keyboard and mouse.

I think mine was 34ms. I can get 120fps at 1080p, too, but if I wanted to run at 1080p, I would have just used my old TV. I'm with you, I'll take 4K gaming @ 60fps over 1080p @ 120 anyday. Next year, when I go triple, I'll get to run it at 120+ fps with G-sync. Until then, I'm perfectly happy with 4K. Coming from console, this is still an amazing visual and performance improvement.

Also got some more PCars MP in last night. Another night of clean fun racing. The server selection is definitely more limited than console, but it's a welcome trade off to get this much clean racing. I haven't finished less than 4th, since going to PC, and that's totally because of the clean starts and first corner respect. On console, I'd get crashed out so much at the start/first turn, that I stopped even trying and would just hang back, loosing whatever advantage I had from my starting position. Sometimes, I didn't even bother pushing in quali and purposely took the middle to rear grid. I hope this isn't just some lucky trend in PC multiplayer...LOL

Did get the corrupted FF load last night, though. Everything was fine in quali, then the race starts, and I feel that crap grinding in the first turn. It wasn't nearly as bad/strong as it was on console, but it's just plain annoying. Even more so now that I've been playing other sims that don't have such debilitating gameplay issues. I'm really glad I wasn't on PC when PCars launched. Because, I'm starting to see that one of the reasons I was so tolerant of the launch issues, is because I simply had no other options, and was sick and tired of playing Forza 5. If I had AC and R3E, I'm pretty sure I would shelved the game, and doubt I would have spent so much time trying to get the FFB sorted.

Haiden

30-08-2016, 12:04

did make the switch to PC too @Haiden @GrimeyDog, see you guys on track hopefully soon!

Definitely! I'll add you today. :)

Edit: Also, what's up with SIMMSA? Are they racing yet or what? I saw the link in your message and was wondering.

Haiden

30-08-2016, 12:08

The Word is in! No CSW or Current Gen wheel support on PS4 with New Racing titles!!! Sony Shot down the Hub/Rim Combo so only New Wheel Bases will work... It was stated that while only New bases will work you May still be abke to use Current Rims...Looks Like V2 and other wheel bases are out unless Sony Changes its policy again.

I doubt they will. This effectively does what Sony and Thrustmaser were no doubt looking to do anyway--level the playing field. With CSW-v2 out of the picture, TM's new direct drive wheel will probably be on par--price and performance wise--with Fanatec's new CSL wheel base. Fanatec confirmed that CSL stands for Clubsport Lite. If the CSW-v2 was still in the PS4 mix, that would be the better option overall (Wheel and Pedals). As far as gaming goes, I'm so done with Sony. Not even looking back. :)

Haiden

30-08-2016, 12:09

Ill let you know what I think when I get home from work. Should be on my doorstep by then.

Early verdict?

morpwr

30-08-2016, 14:16

Early verdict?

6 hours to go.:o lol But ill let you know. With the new gt sport delayed I wonder if we will see that wheel anytime soon. It will really suck if its release is tied to gt sports release.

I was looking forward to this, until Sony decided to treat me like a stepchild. At this point, I'm pretty convinced that GT Sport is just going to be another Forza6--an arcade racer, trying to convince people it's a sim--like a child kicking and screaming, telling everyone in ear shot it's actually a mature adult.

Just like Turn10, Polyphony will continue to straddle the line, leaning more toward arcade, than sim, because they can't afford to alienate their base, whom they've been serving arcade/sim-cade racers to for years, claiming they were true sims. Now that real sims are coming to console, they're in a strange place. I don't think either studio actually wants to compete in the sim space. They just can't afford to differentiate themselves as arcade at this point, because they've both spent the past 10 years pretending to be racing sims. My guess... The delay is related to Polyphony trying to get the PS VR experience perfected. Because basically, with the current options on console. That's the only thing that's going give them an advantage. Years ago, when they started development, I don't think they anticipated PCars and AC being on the market when GT Sport released. Now, they are doing everything they can to herd the community toward their title.

GrimeyDog

30-08-2016, 15:22

https://youtu.be/tzm1qXXS1kY

Im thinking about getting Automobilista... any 1 have any thoughts or insight??? Looks pretty Good... also thinking about picking up content for R3E... Whats the best content to start with... Im tempted to just hit purchas all.

konnos

30-08-2016, 16:41

The only reason I haven't bought AMS is because I don't know how long they will continue to support the game until they move on to their next one. Otherwise I'd buy it just for the Formulas, which are supposed to be really good. For some reason the R3E demo crashed on me every singly time i was trying to enter a race, so I didn't bother to troubleshoot it and left it at that. I remember it loaded up once and the driving was ok, but needed tweaking, as expected. I was not very impressed with the "free" content, this is a game you need to invest some money to start playing and I was not looking for such a thing, PCars has got me covered, even if I hadn't bought all the DLC (which I have). I find AC less and less appealing every time I play, something about it that seems wrong. Too stiff suspension maybe? Like driving a cart? (the one with the horses...) Also the tire scrubbing in corners too soon gets on my nerves, but that is fixable.

Haiden

30-08-2016, 17:07

https://youtu.be/tzm1qXXS1kY

Im thinking about getting Automobilista... any 1 have any thoughts or insight??? Looks pretty Good... also thinking about picking up content for R3E... Whats the best content to start with... Im tempted to just hit purchas all.

It looks okay, but I decided to wait. Car-wise, there was much content for me. Lots of open wheel, but I've got that covered in other games. The track list was a little unappealing, too. I don't care for Kart, Truck or Rally, so that cuts the list drastically. I also didn't really recognize any of the tracks.

Personally, I think R3E is a better option. The free content is alright. The tracks are good, but the cars are just okay. I bought the DTM, Prototype2, GT3, and European car packs and that gave me everything I needed. DTM is pretty much absent from PCars, and the cars in R3E's P2 pack are much better than PCars' LMP2 class. They sound and handle so much better. I don't drive the LMP2 class in PCars much. But after a five minute test drive in one of R3E's P2s, I was ready to buy the pack.

Also, that's the thing about R3E. You can test drive whatever you want as much as you want on their test track, so you don't need to go by other's opinion. :)

Edit: The total cost for those packs was about $55. Same price as a game. There's a lot more content available, but you only need your favorites to start. The DTM car pack actually comes with quite a few tracks. Those, plus the free ones will give you a lot of track options. I just got the European pack, because there were some icon favorites in it. The GT3 pack is a little redundant, if you have PCars and AC, but it's a popular online class, so I figured I'd get it.

Also, do not purchase all the DLC. Some of the car packs, like DTM, are redundant. It's just different seasons. If you buy them all, you just end up with different versions of the same cars. Just get the latest season pack for the classes you want.

Haiden

30-08-2016, 17:20

The only reason I haven't bought AMS is because I don't know how long they will continue to support the game until they move on to their next one. Otherwise I'd buy it just for the Formulas, which are supposed to be really good. For some reason the R3E demo crashed on me every singly time i was trying to enter a race, so I didn't bother to troubleshoot it and left it at that. I remember it loaded up once and the driving was ok, but needed tweaking, as expected. I was not very impressed with the "free" content, this is a game you need to invest some money to start playing and I was not looking for such a thing, PCars has got me covered, even if I hadn't bought all the DLC (which I have). I find AC less and less appealing every time I play, something about it that seems wrong. Too stiff suspension maybe? Like driving a cart? (the one with the horses...) Also the tire scrubbing in corners too soon gets on my nerves, but that is fixable.

I think AC and R3E have very similar handling. In fact, I switch between the two pretty much seamlessly. The strange thing is, I noticed this weekend that I'm slowly spending more time in R3E and AC, than I am PCars. In fact, I've mostly been going to PCars for online racing. At first I thought it was because I've been playing PCars for more than a year, and the titles were new. But I've tried the same car/track combos across all three games, back to back, and each time, I found myself more immersed with R3E and AC. Don't get me wrong. PCars is very strong and offers quite a few things the others don't. The FFB feels like butter now, and I love playing it. There's just something about the way the cars handle and sound in R3E and AC that just feel right to me. If you think it feels like driving a cart, then maybe you need to check your settings...LOL Not sure why the tire scrub/squeal is an issue, because you can control the volume. Just turn it down. That's what I did. I actually wish PCars had that setting, because I think the tire scrub in PCars is too quiet sometimes, especially in cars with loud engines.

Also, last night I realized PCars has limited FOV settings. Both AC and R3E allow you a lot of vertical range (up and down) when setting up your POV. That's important for mounted screens, in order to get the wheel lined up for a realistic view/position. With AC and R3E, I can raise or lower the FOV as high or low as I need to. But I had to adjust my screen mount to accommodate PCars' vertical range, which actually forces me to position the screen about 2 inches lower than I would like.

Roger Prynne

30-08-2016, 17:32

^ Use Ctrl k to change the view to your liking.

The usual WASDQE plus the numeric pad.

Only thing is, is that it won't save those settings for next time!!

Haiden

30-08-2016, 17:54

^ Use Ctrl k to change the view to your liking.

The usual WASDQE plus the numeric pad.

Only thing is, is that it won't save those settings for next time!!

I tried CTRL+K and nothing happened. Is there some visual queue to let me know the mode has changed? Also, what keys do you use to reposition the view? The navigation keys, like on a shooter? The lack of save seems like it would become annoying, though.

GrimeyDog

30-08-2016, 17:57

The only reason I haven't bought AMS is because I don't know how long they will continue to support the game until they move on to their next one. Otherwise I'd buy it just for the Formulas, which are supposed to be really good. For some reason the R3E demo crashed on me every singly time i was trying to enter a race, so I didn't bother to troubleshoot it and left it at that. I remember it loaded up once and the driving was ok, but needed tweaking, as expected. I was not very impressed with the "free" content, this is a game you need to invest some money to start playing and I was not looking for such a thing, PCars has got me covered, even if I hadn't bought all the DLC (which I have). I find AC less and less appealing every time I play, something about it that seems wrong. Too stiff suspension maybe? Like driving a cart? (the one with the horses...) Also the tire scrubbing in corners too soon gets on my nerves, but that is fixable.

The Game that Keeps Crashing... If you have it through Steam go to the Game, Go to Settings and Select Verify Game Files... That should Fix the Problem... If anything is Corrupted, Fragmented or Missing a update file it will sort it out for you.

AMS i think they will support for quite some time... Its like Pcars was at launch a work in progress but just in a Much Better State from what ive read... Not sooo Many Bugs either... i havent bought it yet so None of this can i Verify frim hands on... I just been reading up on it to see if its wirth while getting.

Roger Prynne

30-08-2016, 18:14

I tried CTRL+K and nothing happened. Is there some visual queue to let me know the mode has changed? Also, what keys do you use to reposition the view? The navigation keys, like on a shooter? The lack of save seems like it would become annoying, though.

No there's no visual clue, but once you've pressed CTRL+K the usual keys should work (WASDQE) plus the numbers on the key pad.
It's how the guys get such good screen shots as well.

BigDad

30-08-2016, 21:50

AMS, Stockcar extreme, Copa Petronas and Formula Truck all come from the same people, I think they just Jeep evolving and moving on.
I got AMS for the tyre and track technology, pretty awesome.
In R3E I grabbed the DTM 2013 then the European track pack and WTCC and something else (can't remember) and now there is only 4 tracks left to get,and i will get car pack as I go.
Once you get AMS graphics sorted and saved in the Gpu control panel it looks fairly good, still trying to figure out the ffb. Seems to be directly from the tyres. Pretty pure.
As for what games to get. Get them all and jump from game to game or get one and stay there forever.
I feel R3E rocks for race cars and AC rocks the road cars.

GrimeyDog

30-08-2016, 22:24

Question Doe's R3E set the DOR automatically per Car like Pcars??? Ice been running it and it Doesnt Feel like it.

On another Note.. Monticarlo Looks absolutely Brilliant UHD 60FPS!!! Not a Flicker or Flutter 15 + Me Car Grid... Im Going to do a Full Grid Multi class Sun Down to Sun up and see how it fairs.

Haiden

30-08-2016, 23:38

AMS, Stockcar extreme, Copa Petronas and Formula Truck all come from the same people, I think they just Jeep evolving and moving on.
I got AMS for the tyre and track technology, pretty awesome.
In R3E I grabbed the DTM 2013 then the European track pack and WTCC and something else (can't remember) and now there is only 4 tracks left to get,and i will get car pack as I go.
Once you get AMS graphics sorted and saved in the Gpu control panel it looks fairly good, still trying to figure out the ffb. Seems to be directly from the tyres. Pretty pure.
As for what games to get. Get them all and jump from game to game or get one and stay there forever.
I feel R3E rocks for race cars and AC rocks the road cars.

The lack of graphic support is one of the main things that turned me off on AMS, if you get it sorted out. Are the graphics--when run through the GPU--comparable to R3E?

I'm really loving the race cars in R3E, and the hypercars in AC are a blast.

Haiden

30-08-2016, 23:42

Question Doe's R3E set the DOR automatically per Car like Pcars??? Ice been running it and it Doesnt Feel like it.

On another Note.. Monticarlo Looks absolutely Brilliant UHD 60FPS!!! Not a Flicker or Flutter 15 + Me Car Grid... Im Going to do a Full Grid Multi class Sun Down to Sun up and see how it fairs.

It's per car. You can find it in the options, under Steering or Vehicle settings (can't remember the name right now), along with Wheel Lock and the Steering Gain settings. I haven't touched it for any of the cars though. The defaults differ from car to car, and so far I haven't had any problems with the steering.

GrimeyDog

31-08-2016, 01:39

Race Room is Pretty Dam Good one you get the settings sorted!!!... I'm gonna but Most of the content... I think that's the perfect break from Pcars!!! gonna get the sone Assetto Corsa content too!!! i just have to figure out what content i want most... I like the touring cars and Modern DTM alot.

morpwr

31-08-2016, 01:43

Early verdict?

Well after playing for a few hours and having my first wtf moment. Why would a sim game developer not have any way to calibrate the pedals? If you have a load cell your screwed with no way of knowing where it is set. Weird part is the screen to adjust deadzone is gone after the first update so you cant do that either. Not sure what else was on that screen that was all I caught. It drives ok but I'm not overly impressed at this point. Maybe with some more playing I can get it better but the first thing I noticed is there is zero feeling when braking unless you lock up the tires. Definitely not like pcars in that respect especially if youre braking into a corner. One good part is the lack of elevator music.lol I never understood the music choices in these games. Visually its ok but definitely far from the best looking sim like isrtv said it was. Pcars blows it away in that department. The fact we didn't get all the dlc like they said we would on release is annoying because the pc has quite a few more cars at this point. Some are in the game I just cant use them. I don't really get where everyone says the grip feel is better in ac at this point id say the opposite but maybe a little more tweaking will help . As much as pcars was a pain to set up I miss some of the options now.lol I know it sounds like I hate it and that really isn't it. Its got some different cars that I like and it isn't bad but I think the hype was overblown. Id say pcars is way ahead in alot of aspects. Just my two cents.

Haiden

31-08-2016, 03:01

Race Room is Pretty Dam Good one you get the settings sorted!!!... I'm gonna but Most of the content... I think that's the perfect break from Pcars!!! gonna get the sone Assetto Corsa content too!!! i just have to figure out what content i want most... I like the touring cars and Modern DTM alot.

Correction: the DOR and wheel lock is in Car Setup, not options.

I know, right!? I really like RaceRoom.

For AC, definitely check out this mod. http://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/ferrari-f2002.8703/

It's the best F1 experience I've had in sims. The mods for AC, you really have to try them out one at a time. Most are free, but since they've been created by different people, the handling varies. They all look pretty good, but some drive like crap. That F2002 mod has awesome, realistic handling. It takes a little bit to get used to the car, but when you do, it makes for some good racing. There's also a livery mod for that one, which gives you all the liveries from that year, so you can race a full grid.

There's a GT skin pack, too. Can't remember where I got it, though.

And definitely find a car you love in AC, and try out the Black Cat Canyon (name?) road course. It's so much fun to drive...LOL

Haiden

31-08-2016, 03:09

Well after playing for a few hours and having my first wtf moment. Why would a sim game developer not have any way to calibrate the pedals? If you have a load cell your screwed with no way of knowing where it is set. Weird part is the screen to adjust deadzone is gone after the first update so you cant do that either. Not sure what else was on that screen that was all I caught. It drives ok but I'm not overly impressed at this point. Maybe with some more playing I can get it better but the first thing I noticed is there is zero feeling when braking unless you lock up the tires. Definitely not like pcars in that respect especially if youre braking into a corner. One good part is the lack of elevator music.lol I never understood the music choices in these games. Visually its ok but definitely far from the best looking sim like isrtv said it was. Pcars blows it away in that department. The fact we didn't get all the dlc like they said we would on release is annoying because the pc has quite a few more cars at this point. Some are in the game I just cant use them. I don't really get where everyone says the grip feel is better in ac at this point id say the opposite but maybe a little more tweaking will help . As much as pcars was a pain to set up I miss some of the options now.lol I know it sounds like I hate it and that really isn't it. Its got some different cars that I like and it isn't bad but I think the hype was overblown. Id say pcars is way ahead in alot of aspects. Just my two cents.

Hmmm...I don't know. The PC version sounds very different. The brake pressure thing is annoying. Some cars allow you to set it. Others don't, which is weird. But it really hasn't been a problem for me, like I thought it would, and I'm playing with no assists. I don't have my pedals running through the wheel anymore, so I can't control pressure through the wheel settings. I think the graphics are pretty good. Compared to PCars, I say they're different, but I don't know if I would say PCars is better. I raced the Nords in AC, and I swear there were few times when the view look absolutely life like. The track graffiti and detail in AC is definitely better than PCars, though.

It's strange, though. The FFB feels great to me on PC. I wouldn't say better than PCars, because it's preference. But AC does feel more realistic to me. PCars' feedback is very informative and I love it, but it's so informative that it just doesn't feel as realistic to me. That's not a complaint, though. I like them both.

Now I want to try the AC console version to see what the difference are. :)

spacepadrille

31-08-2016, 10:39

Hi guys, I'm back after 2 months off, driving 6000 miles in west US in a real car ;-)

A lot of changes here, with a huge PS4 to PC migration !
So since I'm back, I bought AC for PS4, and I run alternatively the two games. AC is not bad, the driving experience can be very realistic with some cars. PCArs is a pure pleasure.

@ morpwr : I have 2 questions ; what settings are you using in AC with T300 & PS4 ? I run 34% - 20% - 50% - 0% - OFF. It's not so bad, but I'm interrested by seiing your settings too.
Second question : I saw in JS's thread that you now run rab 0.10 instead of 0.03, with the JS's classic settings V3.0, but in your last actualized settings on Oscarolim site it's still 0.03. Personally I prefer 0.03, but I'm curious about that.

GrimeyDog

31-08-2016, 11:10

It seems that Race Room FFB settings are a Simplified version of Pcars Settings... No in Car Masters, Fx,Fy, etc... Seems like all the in car forces have been adjusted and hidden behind + or - sliders...The only thing to be done is identify (1) GM FFB (2) TF (3) RAG .... I dont think there is a SG hidden in these settings...it would be Nice if there was a Standard industry Labeling for the settings... it would make wheel set up much easier!!!

I think i know what is what but Not sure yet... whats your take on what does what???

These are Not the settings im using i just took the pic so i can have it to look at and sort it out.

morpwr

31-08-2016, 11:11

Hi guys, I'm back after 2 months off, driving 6000 miles in west US in a real car ;-)

A lot of changes here, with a huge PS4 to PC migration !
So since I'm back, I bought AC for PS4, and I run alternatively the two games. AC is not bad, the driving experience can be very realistic with some cars. PCArs is a pure pleasure.

@ morpwr : I have 2 questions ; what settings are you using in AC with T300 & PS4 ? I run 34% - 20% - 50% - 0% - OFF. It's not so bad, but I'm interrested by seiing your settings too.
Second question : I saw in JS's thread that you now run rab 0.10 instead of 0.03, with the JS's classic settings V3.0, but in your last actualized settings on Oscarolim site it's still 0.03. Personally I prefer 0.03, but I'm curious about that.

I'm still using the 2.9 settings with .03rab. I just cant get over how much is lost with the 3.0 settings and at this point I'm just going to race with those because they work. Maybe with a complete retweak we could get a lot of the forces back but I'm just not going to do it now. As for my settings for ac I'm almost exactly where you are now but I think it still needs a little adjustment. We did settle on exactly the same overall ffb though. Just my kerbs and road feel is a little different but not by much.

spacepadrille

31-08-2016, 11:24

Thanks for answer, morpwr ;-)
With the JS's V3.0 I use 0.03 rab. Best results with the last set "low vertical load", but when I'm going back to V2.9 and "classic", it's better for some cars, worse for others.

morpwr

31-08-2016, 11:26

Hmmm...I don't know. The PC version sounds very different. The brake pressure thing is annoying. Some cars allow you to set it. Others don't, which is weird. But it really hasn't been a problem for me, like I thought it would, and I'm playing with no assists. I don't have my pedals running through the wheel anymore, so I can't control pressure through the wheel settings. I think the graphics are pretty good. Compared to PCars, I say they're different, but I don't know if I would say PCars is better. I raced the Nords in AC, and I swear there were few times when the view look absolutely life like. The track graffiti and detail in AC is definitely better than PCars, though.

It's strange, though. The FFB feels great to me on PC. I wouldn't say better than PCars, because it's preference. But AC does feel more realistic to me. PCars' feedback is very informative and I love it, but it's so informative that it just doesn't feel as realistic to me. That's not a complaint, though. I like them both.

Now I want to try the AC console version to see what the difference are. :)

Its not the cars brake pressure I mean. Its the fact you cant set how hard you have to push the brake pedal with the load cell anymore to get full brakes. The way it is now takes a lot more pressure to get full braking which is annoying and make it difficult to judge. On pc maybe the graphics are closer to pcars but on console it definitely not as good. Don't get wrong it isn't bad but its not what pcars is. Its funny comparing the two now you can see how many things sms got done really well on the console. I'm the opposite I expect to feel those things pcars has where in ac it feel sterile to me. It isn't bad and yes its different and I'm starting to enjoy the game a lot but its just off some. Same for the field of view we only have a 10 degree window to work with on consoles. Whose bright idea was that? Ill definitely play this but some of the thinking behind it has me scratching my head.

morpwr

31-08-2016, 11:28

Thanks for answer, morpwr ;-)
With the JS's V3.0 I use 0.03 rab. Best results with the last set "low vertical load", but when I'm going back to V2.9 and "classic", it's better for some cars, worse for others.

Yeah that's pretty much what I found too. So I just stick with 2.9 for fear of corrupting the ffb again. I'm tired of typing all the settings in over and over.lol

Haiden

31-08-2016, 12:05

Yeah that's pretty much what I found too. So I just stick with 2.9 for fear of corrupting the ffb again. I'm tired of typing all the settings in over and over.lol

Yeah... There sounds like there are some major difference and some compromises were made in the port to console. I have a load cell, and the braking pressure I use is very comparable to PCars. In fact, I'd say I have to be lighter on the brakes in AC than I am in PCars, because I'm able to lower the pressure in PCars. Comparing the two, at least on PC, AC's brake pressure seems to be set around 95%, definitely doesn't require a hard press. If I do that, I'm locking them up. I wouldn't worry about yet. Kunos will probably be releasing a patch soon, based on initial feedback.

Haiden

31-08-2016, 12:10

It seems that Race Room FFB settings are a Simplified version of Pcars Settings... No in Car Masters, Fx,Fy, etc... Seems like all the in car forces have been adjusted and hidden behind + or - sliders...The only thing to be done is identify (1) GM FFB (2) TF (3) RAG .... I dont think there is a SG hidden in these settings...it would be Nice if there was a Standard industry Labeling for the settings... it would make wheel set up much easier!!!

I think i know what is what but Not sure yet... whats your take on what does what???

These are Not the settings im using i just took the pic so i can have it to look at and sort it out.

IDK... The labels descriptions are pretty good. Not much room for speculation there.

SG is actually car-specific in R3E. You'll find the slider in the in the Vehicle Settings/Setup, so you have to be in-session to see them. It's a simple multiplier, with very fine increment scale. There isn't as much room to play as there is in PCars, you can go a few clicks +/-, but anymore it'll quickly make the wheel too light or too heavy. I stopped messing with it, because the defaults seem to be fine. In fact, neither AC or R3E really take more than a couple hours to get sorted. The systems are much more simplified than PCars, and the label descriptions are easy to understand.

RomKnight

31-08-2016, 12:32

Actually, R3E lets you mess with the FFB and even the type of curves in the controllers.json if you wish.

And I still don't get the Fy,x,z problem in pCARS. The only problem is that there's not an in-game screen a simplified figure like the one below that really is self-explanatory.

235605

But that's just my opinion.

Haiden

31-08-2016, 13:26

Its not the cars brake pressure I mean. Its the fact you cant set how hard you have to push the brake pedal with the load cell anymore to get full brakes. The way it is now takes a lot more pressure to get full braking which is annoying and make it difficult to judge. On pc maybe the graphics are closer to pcars but on console it definitely not as good. Don't get wrong it isn't bad but its not what pcars is. Its funny comparing the two now you can see how many things sms got done really well on the console. I'm the opposite I expect to feel those things pcars has where in ac it feel sterile to me. It isn't bad and yes its different and I'm starting to enjoy the game a lot but its just off some. Same for the field of view we only have a 10 degree window to work with on consoles. Whose bright idea was that? Ill definitely play this but some of the thinking behind it has me scratching my head.

I was just playing this morning and realized something. The CSP-v3 pedals have an adjustable cylinder, and I'm also have a damper mod installed, so I can control the brake throw and resistance through the hardware. I believe Logitech pedals also have an adjustable cylinder. Thrustmaster really needs to do the same with their design. Having a load cell without the ability to adjust the resistance put against it, would be a little annoying. But I put that on TM, not the game.

There's a setting in AC called Brake Gamma. Not sure if it's in the console version, but I know a lot of people use that to personalize their brake feel. There isn't much range in the setting, go over 1.25 and it hinders more than helps. The thing is, I'm not sure this will help you, even if it's there. It's basically for changing the slope of the brake curve, and I'm not sure that will help you with your issue, but if it's there, you might want to play with it.

Is there really no way to adjust the load cell on the TM pedals? Is that the Richto (or whatever) mod?

morpwr

31-08-2016, 13:29

I was just playing this morning and realized something. The CSP-v3 pedals have an adjustable cylinder, and I'm also have a damper mod installed, so I can control the brake throw and resistance through the hardware. I believe Logitech pedals also have an adjustable cylinder. Thrustmaster really needs to do the same with their design. Having a load cell without the ability to adjust the resistance put against it, would be a little annoying. But I put that on TM, not the game.

There's a setting in AC called Brake Gamma. Not sure if it's in the console version, but I know a lot of people use that to personalize their brake feel. There isn't much range in the setting, go over 1.25 and it hinders more than helps. The thing is, I'm not sure this will help you, even if it's there. It's basically for changing the slope of the brake curve, and I'm not sure that will help you with your issue, but if it's there, you might want to play with it.

Unfortunately I think consoles have a lot missing. There is nothing for brake feel at all which it could really use. Even braking into a corner is almost impossible to feel. You don't get that extra pull like you should because of the extra weight transfer. After looking on some of the other forums it looks like most ps4 players feel about the same as I do. I needs help but has potential.

GrimeyDog

31-08-2016, 15:15

Actually, R3E lets you mess with the FFB and even the type of curves in the controllers.json if you wish.

And I still don't get the Fy,x,z problem in pCARS. The only problem is that there's not an in-game screen a simplified figure like the one below that really is self-explanatory.

235605

But that's just my opinion.

Agree... Pcar FFB is actually very simple if you dont over Complicate them with Big words Ex: Phase Cancellation etc Its just know what each setting affects and + or - until it feels right to you... Very Simple... alotta people get lost or discouraged because of Fancy word play... just best to keep it simple.

In My case i had Over Looked the Fact that TF = Global Spindle Master Scale!!! I dunno dont ask hiw i missed that Fact but i did... LOL...Once i clearly understood that Fact the FFB just fell right in place:yes: TF/RAC 75 balances the FFB system Very Nicely and lets you use in Car Masters 100 to + or - 99 per Car until it feels right for you with No Fear of Clipping even at Masters 200!!!

Race Room feels Very Nice... Nope i will Not go into the .json and change a thing... LOL... Im keeping it simple set it with basic settings so it feels good and forget it:yes:

RomKnight

31-08-2016, 15:17

There's a setting in AC called Brake Gamma. Not sure if it's in the console version, but I know a lot of people use that to personalize their brake feel.

I don't know either but there's a note on this setting. People with load cell should set it to 1.00.

tennenbaum

31-08-2016, 15:34

Well after playing for a few hours and having my first wtf moment. Why would a sim game developer not have any way to calibrate the pedals? If you have a load cell your screwed with no way of knowing where it is set. Weird part is the screen to adjust deadzone is gone after the first update so you cant do that either. Not sure what else was on that screen that was all I caught. It drives ok but I'm not overly impressed at this point. Maybe with some more playing I can get it better but the first thing I noticed is there is zero feeling when braking unless you lock up the tires. Definitely not like pcars in that respect especially if youre braking into a corner. One good part is the lack of elevator music.lol I never understood the music choices in these games. Visually its ok but definitely far from the best looking sim like isrtv said it was. Pcars blows it away in that department. The fact we didn't get all the dlc like they said we would on release is annoying because the pc has quite a few more cars at this point. Some are in the game I just cant use them. I don't really get where everyone says the grip feel is better in ac at this point id say the opposite but maybe a little more tweaking will help . As much as pcars was a pain to set up I miss some of the options now.lol I know it sounds like I hate it and that really isn't it. Its got some different cars that I like and it isn't bad but I think the hype was overblown. Id say pcars is way ahead in alot of aspects. Just my two cents.

same here. can't really figure out AC's breaking behavior. it's probably a matter of time seat with any game before you adapted enough to properly "read" it...
I changed back and forth between AC and Pcars in 20 minutes intervalls: both Brands Hatch with the Lotus 49 openwheeler... man, that was confusing... May be the Lotus 49 is just a weird car anyway (I was almost running to the store to get F1 2016, to get a third impression, haha)
So then I changed to a BMW M with 500 hp... which confused me even more - off course. Felt like being in a 'Marshmellow'... i know i should not do such things.
BTW with AC i also ended up quickly with 34% FFB. ...but isn't it a bit "muffled? Though i can feel a good physic model at work. Pity is, AC doesn't have Watkins Glen and The Ruf 8 GT3 So i don't really have a reference track in AC, that i know well enough for a good comparison.
Anybody an idea, what's the best test combi of car and track to compare the two games? The Nords?

Haiden

31-08-2016, 16:08

same here. can't really figure out AC's breaking behavior. it's probably a matter of time seat with any game before you adapted enough to properly "read" it...
I changed back and forth between AC and Pcars in 20 minutes intervalls: both Brands Hatch with the Lotus 49 openwheeler... man, that was confusing... May be the Lotus 49 is just a weird car anyway (I was almost running to the store to get F1 2016, to get a third impression, haha)
So then I changed to a BMW M with 500 hp... which confused me even more - off course. Felt like being in a 'Marshmellow'... i know i should not do such things.
BTW with AC i also ended up quickly with 34% FFB. ...but isn't it a bit "muffled? Though i can feel a good physic model at work. Pity is, AC doesn't have Watkins Glen and The Ruf 8 GT3 So i don't really have a reference track in AC, that i know well enough for a good comparison.
Anybody an idea, what's the best test combi of car and track to compare the two games? The Nords?

I think the Nords is a good track. I've been using that one, going back and forth between PCars, AC, and R3E. Brands Hatch is also a good one for FFB comparisons, and it's shorter, so you can run a lot of laps. But Nords is a good comprehensive comparison--FFB, Graphics, Sound, etc...

That sucks about the braking. The lack of a pressure setting does bug, but not nearly as much anymore. I got used it, and now I can switch between games with ease. One thing I did, that I think helped, was to turn PCars assists off. I had them on Real, which meant some cars were running ABS, unless I turned them off. The "Factory" setting in AC seems to put ABS on all the cars, just set really low 2/12. I didn't like that, so I turned assists off. R3E only has on/off, so I went with off, and then it only made sense to do the same in PCars. Now I switch between the three with ease.

I also had to reset the Steering Sensitivity in PCars. I had it at 60 on console, and that was fine, because that was the only sim I was playing. But those 10 increments actually made a big difference, and I was having steering trouble when I switched back to PCars, because it was too sensitive. Once I set it back to 50, it was fine.

Edit: One thing I have noticed though. PCars is way more forgiving on the braking. That might be part of the problem, as well. I think PCars might have you braking harder than you think. Because both AC and R3E are very easy to lock them up in. You really have to be technical with the braking. High DF cars, you can kick them hard for a second, but you better start coming off quickly or you'll lock them up. Low DF cars, you have to do your hard braking in a straight line, and then come off (a lot) if you're going to trail in into the corner. In PCars, I can stay on the brakes pretty hard well into a corner. That's always struck me as strange, because when it happens, my mind knows I'm wrong, and I'm expecting to lock up and slide off. Then suddenly, somehow, I maintain grip. If I do that in AC or R3E, I get exactly what I expect--lockup and sliding off the track as I hold the wheel tightly saying, "Shhhttt!" LOL

The braking in PCars feels even more forgiving now that I've got my pedals connected directly, which provides higher resolution/steps. In fact, I think that was one of the first things I commented on when I went to PC. It felt like I had ABS on, even though I didn't. I had to raise the braking pressure in almost every car when I switched to PC. Not saying PCars is wrong, but, when it comes to braking, it is the odd ball in sims I've tried. Even Forza isn't as forgiving on the brakes and feels more like AC and R3E in that regard.

Haiden

31-08-2016, 16:35

I don't know either but there's a note on this setting. People with load cell should set it to 1.00.

That's what I figured. Because raising it only flattens the response curve, creating a deadzone at the start. That's fine, if you think the brakes are too sensitive. But I think you'd actually have to go lower than 1.0 to solve the problem they described. And, as far as I know, you can't lower than 1.0.

morpwr

31-08-2016, 17:23

same here. can't really figure out AC's breaking behavior. it's probably a matter of time seat with any game before you adapted enough to properly "read" it...
I changed back and forth between AC and Pcars in 20 minutes intervalls: both Brands Hatch with the Lotus 49 openwheeler... man, that was confusing... May be the Lotus 49 is just a weird car anyway (I was almost running to the store to get F1 2016, to get a third impression, haha)
So then I changed to a BMW M with 500 hp... which confused me even more - off course. Felt like being in a 'Marshmellow'... i know i should not do such things.
BTW with AC i also ended up quickly with 34% FFB. ...but isn't it a bit "muffled? Though i can feel a good physic model at work. Pity is, AC doesn't have Watkins Glen and The Ruf 8 GT3 So i don't really have a reference track in AC, that i know well enough for a good comparison.
Anybody an idea, what's the best test combi of car and track to compare the two games? The Nords?

I don't think seat time will help much when you cant feel it right up until lockup and then its too late. I love the lotus 49 in pcars but in ac its just heavy as soon as you corner. But I agree if you turn it down to a point of reasonable weight the fy force is still way too strong in a lot of cars and the rest feels marshmellowy.lol You can tell its in there just not right unfortunately. Try spa on the uphill section where the car should get light and normally will slide right if you car too much speed the wheel gets real heavy which is wrong.

rosko

31-08-2016, 17:47

same here. can't really figure out AC's breaking behavior. it's probably a matter of time seat with any game before you adapted enough to properly "read" it...
I changed back and forth between AC and Pcars in 20 minutes intervalls: both Brands Hatch with the Lotus 49 openwheeler... man, that was confusing... May be the Lotus 49 is just a weird car anyway (I was almost running to the store to get F1 2016, to get a third impression, haha)
So then I changed to a BMW M with 500 hp... which confused me even more - off course. Felt like being in a 'Marshmellow'... i know i should not do such things.
BTW with AC i also ended up quickly with 34% FFB. ...but isn't it a bit "muffled? Though i can feel a good physic model at work. Pity is, AC doesn't have Watkins Glen and The Ruf 8 GT3 So i don't really have a reference track in AC, that i know well enough for a good comparison.
Anybody an idea, what's the best test combi of car and track to compare the two games? The Nords?

I use Bands Hatch & Imola to compare. Imola obviously isn't scanned in pcars but it seems very close. I prefer all the classic Lotus in Pcars over AC, Also prefer the M1 Ruf12r Paganis over Ac efforts, I go for the Audis in AC & the chevies, mclarens & 190 evo2. the rest are probably evens.

rosko

31-08-2016, 17:49

I don't think seat time will help much when you cant feel it right up until lockup and then its too late. I love the lotus 49 in pcars but in ac its just heavy as soon as you corner. But I agree if you turn it down to a point of reasonable weight the fy force is still way too strong in a lot of cars and the rest feels marshmellowy.lol You can tell its in there just not right unfortunately. Try spa on the uphill section where the car should get light and normally will slide right if you car too much speed the wheel gets real heavy which is wrong.

I agree, interestingly you have the same wheel as me.

Haiden

31-08-2016, 18:11

I don't think seat time will help much when you cant feel it right up until lockup and then its too late. I love the lotus 49 in pcars but in ac its just heavy as soon as you corner. But I agree if you turn it down to a point of reasonable weight the fy force is still way too strong in a lot of cars and the rest feels marshmellowy.lol You can tell its in there just not right unfortunately. Try spa on the uphill section where the car should get light and normally will slide right if you car too much speed the wheel gets real heavy which is wrong.

Does the console version have the FFB auto tuner? It's a small overlay that shows you your current FFB gain (Master Scale) and then as you drive, it monitors your clipping spikes and determines what your gain should be.

Haiden

31-08-2016, 18:12

I agree, interestingly you have the same wheel as me.

So, you're on the PC version of AC and that's how it feels to you?

morpwr

31-08-2016, 18:25

Does the console version have the FFB auto tuner? It's a small overlay that shows you your current FFB gain (Master Scale) and then as you drive, it monitors your clipping spikes and determines what your gain should be.

That's another no on consoles. We don't have anyway to know anything other than how it feels.

konnos

31-08-2016, 18:42

You guys on PC, just checking, you all know there is a program called "lut generator"? It makes a file that AC can use that alters the wheel's force curve, kinda like what scoops+drr does. The advantage is that you can alter each "notch" individually to fully match and linearise your wheel. Check it out, if you haven't. Note: if you use the lut file, you will need to set the in-game minimum force to zero, as the lut generator already compensates for it.

Edit: Since we re sharing ffb settings, what are the T300 guys using for R3E please and same for AC for PC?

Haiden

31-08-2016, 19:01

That's another no on consoles. We don't have anyway to know anything other than how it feels.

Are we going to see you on PC soon? :)

morpwr

31-08-2016, 20:26

Are we going to see you on PC soon? :)

Ive been looking into building one but I don't have a micro center so I have to order everything. From what I have seen so far I could build a pretty good gaming pc for 2300 dollars roughly.

poirqc

31-08-2016, 21:11

Ive been looking into building one but I don't have a micro center so I have to order everything. From what I have seen so far I could build a pretty good gaming pc for 2300 dollars roughly.

Lots of online retailer offer builds for competitive prices. There's probably also some trustable local shops around where you live. Even if i could've build my owm, i didn't feel like it back then and had pretty good service from a shop 5 minutes from my house.

tennenbaum

31-08-2016, 21:15

I think the Nords is a good track. I've been using that one, going back and forth between PCars, AC, and R3E. Brands Hatch is also a good one for FFB comparisons, and it's shorter, so you can run a lot of laps. But Nords is a good comprehensive comparison--FFB, Graphics, Sound, etc...

That sucks about the braking. The lack of a pressure setting does bug, but not nearly as much anymore. I got used it, and now I can switch between games with ease. One thing I did, that I think helped, was to turn PCars assists off. I had them on Real, which meant some cars were running ABS, unless I turned them off. The "Factory" setting in AC seems to put ABS on all the cars, just set really low 2/12. I didn't like that, so I turned assists off. R3E only has on/off, so I went with off, and then it only made sense to do the same in PCars. Now I switch between the three with ease.

I also had to reset the Steering Sensitivity in PCars. I had it at 60 on console, and that was fine, because that was the only sim I was playing. But those 10 increments actually made a big difference, and I was having steering trouble when I switched back to PCars, because it was too sensitive. Once I set it back to 50, it was fine.

Edit: One thing I have noticed though. PCars is way more forgiving on the braking. That might be part of the problem, as well. I think PCars might have you braking harder than you think. Because both AC and R3E are very easy to lock them up in. You really have to be technical with the braking. High DF cars, you can kick them hard for a second, but you better start coming off quickly or you'll lock them up. Low DF cars, you have to do your hard braking in a straight line, and then come off (a lot) if you're going to trail in into the corner. In PCars, I can stay on the brakes pretty hard well into a corner. That's always struck me as strange, because when it happens, my mind knows I'm wrong, and I'm expecting to lock up and slide off. Then suddenly, somehow, I maintain grip. If I do that in AC or R3E, I get exactly what I expect--lockup and sliding off the track as I hold the wheel tightly saying, "Shhhttt!" LOL

The braking in PCars feels even more forgiving now that I've got my pedals connected directly, which provides higher resolution/steps. In fact, I think that was one of the first things I commented on when I went to PC. It felt like I had ABS on, even though I didn't. I had to raise the braking pressure in almost every car when I switched to PC. Not saying PCars is wrong, but, when it comes to braking, it is the odd ball in sims I've tried. Even Forza isn't as forgiving on the brakes and feels more like AC and R3E in that regard.

Now that i'm reading what you wrote in your EDIT, that is so true!

PCars is forgiving with braking. While AC is tough on braking... For AC i "mod'ed" my brake pedals mechanically by putting foam-rubber from bike steering handles (you can get it everywhere) between brake pedal and housing (thrustmaster pro pedals, i don't like neither their spring mod, nor the rubber cone). Now my knee hurts due to the higher brake pressure, but (in AC) the brakes don't lock any more too quickly, which is of course crucial to get any decent lap times, ...totally different driving now. AC starts to shine... I switched off traction control and ABS (as you said! ;-) e.g. with Ferrari 458 GT2, but dialed in stability control to 50% or 60". That's does the trick: You free the rear of the car, so when you floor the throttle the car's rear gets alive immediately but stability control hinders the tank slappers... after a dozens of laps driving gets wonderfully intuitive "on the edge", between controlled grip and intended slip/drift. Amazing. (i have to try that with PCars as well, it didn't come to mind before.) AI acts great, bumper to bumper, side by side, you can even drift among them in the middle. (pity there is no decent replay yet.)

Haiden

31-08-2016, 21:19

Lots of online retailer offer builds for competitive prices. There's probably also some trustable local shops around where you live. Even if i could've build my owm, i didn't feel like it back then and had pretty good service from a shop 5 minutes from my house.

Yeah... Most PC repair shops will do a custom build. They may just ask you to order the parts. Your pricing sounds about right. I think you can shave a few hundred off that, too. I got 32GB of RAM, could have went with 16. I also went with liquid cooling, an M7 Mobo, and a special case, because I wanted it to match my rig (red and black). :) I could have got it down to $1,600, but ended up at $2K even.

spacepadrille

31-08-2016, 21:23

Now that i'm reading what you wrote in your EDIT, that is so true!

AC starts to shine... I switched off traction control and ABS (as you said! ;-) e.g. with Ferrari 458 GT2, but dialed in stability control to 50% or 60". That's does the trick: You free the rear of the car, so when you floor the throttle the car's rear gets alive immediately but stability control hinders the tank slappers... after a dozens of laps driving gets wonderfully intuitive "on the edge", between controlled grip and intended slip/drift. Amazing. (i have to try that with PCars as well, it didn't come to mind before.) AI acts great, bumper to bumper, side by side, you can even drift among them in the middle. (pity there is no decent replay yet.)

Good to hear ! I was driving with all assists off, I will try with 50% of stability control. Thanks for the trick ! Can you also share your AC's ffb settings ?

PCars is forgiving with braking. While AC is tough on braking... For AC i "mod'ed" my brake pedals mechanically by putting foam-rubber from bike steering handles (you can get it everywhere) between brake pedal and housing (thrustmaster pro pedals, i don't like neither their spring mod, nor the rubber cone). Now my knee hurts due to the higher brake pressure, but (in AC) the brakes don't lock any more too quickly, which is of course crucial to get any decent lap times, ...totally different driving now. AC starts to shine... I switched off traction control and ABS (as you said! ;-) e.g. with Ferrari 458 GT2, but dialed in stability control to 50% or 60". That's does the trick: You free the rear of the car, so when you floor the throttle the car's rear gets alive immediately but stability control hinders the tank slappers... after a dozens of laps driving gets wonderfully intuitive "on the edge", between controlled grip and intended slip/drift. Amazing. (i have to try that with PCars as well, it didn't come to mind before.) AI acts great, bumper to bumper, side by side, you can even drift among them in the middle. (pity there is no decent replay yet.)

^^Yes. That's something I totally noticed the other day. In AC, I can use lift oversteer in corners with way more precision than I can in PCars. In PCars, I only use it for extreme needs, and even then, it's easy to let it go too far. But in AC, I get just the right amount and, even it's just a smidge, never feel like I'm not in control. It makes a huge difference. :)

Not sure what the console version is like. I wish I could compare, so I knew if it was a port issue, or just the typical transition issues that I had as well. After over of year of nothing but PCars, AC definitely felt different. It wasn't what I was expecting or used to, and it took my a while to warm up to it. But once I got it, I started loving it, because it makes for a different kind of racing. I think I mentioned before that I thought PCars was more visceral and AC was more technical (not saying either is bad at the other; that's just where I think they excel). I Love them both, but they both take such different approaches to FFB, it's like comparing red apples to green apples. I think AC and R3E are more like apples from the same tree. If it wasn't for the difference in sound and HUD icons, I'd actually have to really focus to know which one I was playing sometimes...LOL

morpwr

31-08-2016, 22:01

Yeah... Most PC repair shops will do a custom build. They may just ask you to order the parts. Your pricing sounds about right. I think you can shave a few hundred off that, too. I got 32GB of RAM, could have went with 16. I also went with liquid cooling, an M7 Mobo, and a special case, because I wanted it to match my rig (red and black). :) I could have got it down to $1,600, but ended up at $2K even.

I'm looking at the rog hero motherboard same pc same ram and same graphics card you have . If I'm going to do it I want to make sure there is room for pretty much any thing I want to do down the road and its really good now.

but i think the FFB settings are not as "critical" as in Pcars. Whatever you dial in (besides overall strength) isn't a deal breaker or maker. Totally different concept than PCars. PCars' true 3D environment affected (xyzm) FFB is by far more advanced, but FFB and the driving physics are two different issues. briefly: i think PCars SETA physics model is more advanced and ready for the future (PCars 2), but SMS couldn't fully utilize it yet, while Kunos maxed out the longer known "tire brush-modell" to their advantage. So they can trust very much on their car physics, knowing that their physics engine delivers very valid raw but authentic torque calculations to the steering axis (which is the FFB you experience). Imho that's why PCars FFB feels more alive and dynamic (and more attractive!) while the cat's FFB feels intuitive out of the box, even that it is kind of simpler! I hope SMS holds on their very ambitious approach!! and doesn't comprise, cause i think their code is superior but not fully brought to its full potential yet. Meanwhile let's praise the small team of Kunos guys that they brought such an important sim milestone to the console world. Serious competition (not GT sports and Forza) is good for the biz (Ian Bell and his team know that) and for us addicts ;-)

morpwr

31-08-2016, 22:09

Lots of online retailer offer builds for competitive prices. There's probably also some trustable local shops around where you live. Even if i could've build my owm, i didn't feel like it back then and had pretty good service from a shop 5 minutes from my house.

Yeah I know ive been looking. But most of the ones ive seen with the gtx 1080 even online are around 3000 and skimp somewhere else to keep cost down. I just figure id build it myself and learn something in the process.

but i think the FFB settings are not as "critical" as in Pcars. Whatever you dial in (besides overall strength) isn't a deal breaker or maker. Totally different concept than PCars. PCars' true 3D environment affected (xyzm) FFB is by far more advanced, but FFB and the driving physics are two different issues. briefly: i think PCars SETA physics model is more advanced and ready for the future (PCars 2), but SMS couldn't fully utilize it yet, while Kunos maxed out the longer known "tire brush-modell" to their advantage. So they can trust very much on their car physics, knowing that their physics engine delivers very valid raw but authentic torque calculations to the steering axis (which is the FFB you experience). Imho that's why PCars FFB feels more alive and dynamic (and more attractive!) while the cat's FFB feels intuitive out of the box, even that it is kind of simpler! I hope SMS holds on their very ambitious approach!! and doesn't comprise, cause i think their code is superior but not fully brought to its full potential yet. Meanwhile let's praise the small team of Kunos guys that they brought such an important sim milestone to the console world. Serious competition (not GT spots and Forza) is good for the biz (Ian Bell and his team know that) and for us addicts ;-)

Actually your settings aren't that far from ours and who knows we may wind up there yet. I know a couple of the cars I tried last night get real heavy in the turns. But I agree and think that's what I'm missing from pcars. All the subtle things pcars has that really make you feel like youre driving a car. Things like tire scrub,the tires getting light or heavy because of weight shift like when you can feel them skipping across the pavement, flat spots,so many things it just does really well if your wheel is setup right. But like you said competition is good for everyone look at pd now scrambling with gt whatever. They had the ps4 market cornered for a long time and I think they are a little worried now. I'm going to play some more tonight ill keep you guys posted.

BigDad

31-08-2016, 22:47

Actually, R3E lets you mess with the FFB and even the type of curves in the controllers.json if you wish.

And I still don't get the Fy,x,z problem in pCARS. The only problem is that there's not an in-game screen a simplified figure like the one below that really is self-explanatory.

235605

But that's just my opinion.

How do you adjust the files?
If I do it wrong won't I stuff the game and have to verify the files again in Steam.
There's alot of posts about adjusting files in AMS to get the most of the ffb, again that worries me. But I really want to so it. I wish there were vids on YouTube to help.

inthebagbud

31-08-2016, 23:15

ah the thread has taken a turn for the comparison between games and I am thankful for post http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?38744-PC-PS4-amp-XBOX-1-Lets-talk-FFB-Compare-Telemetry-Videos-and-what-FFB-tweek-used&p=1302894&viewfull=1#post1302894 as it articulated what I couldn't put my finger on

In AC I see the need for finer control to do ok in races and the cars are not as unforgiving as Pcars, but I am not just getting that sense of driving . Pcars feels like driving it is rough, ready and like real life - unforgiving as I say but AC is a little to polished.

That's not to say Pcars has not its faults with driving but in AC I can get round most tracks within a couple of laps , but in Pcars it could take me hours to master a track ( brand new to racing games before Pcars) .

It some how feels like I am being helped in AC and the lack of track markers makes my learning of tracks even more remarkable.

I need to spend more time in the game but my mind does keep wandering back to Pcars http://images.proboards.com/f/smiley/smiley.png

tennenbaum

31-08-2016, 23:42

yeah, Pcars pushed the envelope, and made us true followers... hard work makes you loyal. and pcars was a lot of work - for the us the players, too ;-)

Haiden

31-08-2016, 23:50

Yeah I know ive been looking. But most of the ones ive seen with the gtx 1080 even online are around 3000 and skimp somewhere else to keep cost down. I just figure id build it myself and learn something in the process.

That's exactly what I was finding. I thought I was going to have to build it myself, because the pre-build prices were just outrageous. Then I remembered Microcenter and the small shops around Chicago that do repair and builds. The machine I built only cost $2K and it's better and more future proof than the $3,500 pre-builds I was looking at.

Actually your settings aren't that far from ours and who knows we may wind up there yet. I know a couple of the cars I tried last night get real heavy in the turns. But I agree and think that's what I'm missing from pcars. All the subtle things pcars has that really make you feel like youre driving a car. Things like tire scrub,the tires getting light or heavy because of weight shift like when you can feel them skipping across the pavement, flat spots,so many things it just does really well if your wheel is setup right. But like you said competition is good for everyone look at pd now scrambling with gt whatever. They had the ps4 market cornered for a long time and I think they are a little worried now. I'm going to play some more tonight ill keep you guys posted.

This is strange to hear, because all of things are totally present in the PC version. Driving the Nords, you can really feel the tires skipping across the pavement, as well as the weight shifting, laterally and vertically. You feel every undulation on that course. In fact, I feel a lot more detail on Nords in AC than I do in PCars. And I can control slides better, too. Understeer is a little light, unless you check the "Enhanced Understeer" option. But with that checked, it's fine to me.

morpwr

01-09-2016, 01:26

That's exactly what I was finding. I thought I was going to have to build it myself, because the pre-build prices were just outrageous. Then I remembered Microcenter and the small shops around Chicago that do repair and builds. The machine I built only cost $2K and it's better and more future proof than the $3,500 pre-builds I was looking at.

This is strange to hear, because all of things are totally present in the PC version. Driving the Nords, you can really feel the tires skipping across the pavement, as well as the weight shifting, laterally and vertically. You feel every undulation on that course. In fact, I feel a lot more detail on Nords in AC than I do in PCars. And I can control slides better, too. Understeer is a little light, unless you check the "Enhanced Understeer" option. But with that checked, it's fine to me.

Problem for me in buffalo is there really aren't any computer shops I would trust or even know anymore. One it place is about it for bigger computer places. So ill figure it out myself.I hope anyways. But it doesn't look to difficult and I could use to learn some more about pc stuff.lol If only I had known id be typing this much later in life I would have taken typing.

Actually I turned that on tonight and its a world of difference. Just had to turn the ffb up a little to compensate. I'm pretty happy at this point other then the lack of any brake feel until you lock them up. Its not pcars but its pretty good. I will say the ai is pretty good to race with. Now they just need to fix all the issues on consoles.

morpwr

01-09-2016, 01:31

ah the thread has taken a turn for the comparison between games and I am thankful for post http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?38744-PC-PS4-amp-XBOX-1-Lets-talk-FFB-Compare-Telemetry-Videos-and-what-FFB-tweek-used&p=1302894&viewfull=1#post1302894 as it articulated what I couldn't put my finger on

In AC I see the need for finer control to do ok in races and the cars are not as unforgiving as Pcars, but I am not just getting that sense of driving . Pcars feels like driving it is rough, ready and like real life - unforgiving as I say but AC is a little to polished.

That's not to say Pcars has not its faults with driving but in AC I can get round most tracks within a couple of laps , but in Pcars it could take me hours to master a track ( brand new to racing games before Pcars) .

It some how feels like I am being helped in AC and the lack of track markers makes my learning of tracks even more remarkable.

I need to spend more time in the game but my mind does keep wandering back to Pcars http://images.proboards.com/f/smiley/smiley.png

I feel like you do.You just don't get the same feeling in ac. The sense of speed isn't there and it feels more like a game. I totally agree that it seems much easier then pcars. Is the ai on xbox stupidly fast? I know it was mentioned on the isrtv review. Is the sound screwed up on xbox too?

morpwr

01-09-2016, 01:36

yeah, Pcars pushed the envelope, and made us true followers... hard work makes you loyal. and pcars was a lot of work - for the us the players, too ;-)

Yeah I'm dying to get some hints of what they are doing with pcars 2. As many problems as it had in the beginning they did something truly amazing especially for a small studio.

morpwr

01-09-2016, 02:02

Heres a good one amazon just told me gt will be out dec 27 2017.Screw pd!!You've had how many years to get this done and told everyone it was done and now you need over a year to actually get it done. By then pcars 2 will be out and probably ac 2 and everyone will have forgotten all about gt unless they make an absolutely revolutionary game.

Haiden

01-09-2016, 03:03

I feel like you do.You just don't get the same feeling in ac. The sense of speed isn't there and it feels more like a game. I totally agree that it seems much easier then pcars. Is the ai on xbox stupidly fast? I know it was mentioned on the isrtv review. Is the sound screwed up on xbox too?

The AI is pretty tough in AC. I've been keeping them at 85, and it's been competitive.

When you say easier, do you mean feel or in terms of lap times? I can't match my PCars lap times in AC or R3E.

Heres a good one amazon just told me gt will be out dec 27 2017.Screw pd!!You've had how many years to get this done and told everyone it was done and now you need over a year to actually get it done. By then pcars 2 will be out and probably ac 2 and everyone will have forgotten all about gt unless they make an absolutely revolutionary game.

Dude..screw Sony, seriously. Something I've realized since I've been on PC is, with regards to sim racing, consoles have made a huge leap. But sims are so complex, that you still lose a lot when playing them on console. I didn't realize how much, because I'd never raced on anything but console. When I was PC gaming, I was into shooters and flight simulators. So my racing experience started with Forza 1. But consoles still have a way to go for complex simulation. Hats off to SMS for packing as much as they could into PCars on console. There really wasn't anything else like it, and, from the initial reviews, it seems like Kunos was unable to get the same economy of scale/complexity into the AC port, and it's missing quite a bit.

But, anyway, if you think you're into sim racing for the long haul (I know you are. I'm just talking to anyone in general here). Then PC is the way to go. Make the move as soon as you can, and you'll be much happier with your options and overall experience.

Haiden

01-09-2016, 03:16

Grimey - You should have stuck around for the Hockenheim race in the rain. It was awesome! And the rain washed those irritating noobs away...LOL We raced on Brno after that, and it so clean, lots of wheel to wheel. Even went three wide through the first sweeper one time, and then all three of us came out of it with a clean exit that turned into a drag race down the straight for the next turn... LOL

GrimeyDog

01-09-2016, 03:51

Ive been looking into building one but I don't have a micro center so I have to order everything. From what I have seen so far I could build a pretty good gaming pc for 2300 dollars roughly.

Thats about what My PC final build Cost was and thats Including the $135. PC build fee... it was $1,650. but i went back before the final build was done and added a 2nd 1070....You can Go with the 1070FTW it cost between $430 To 460.... You can start off with 1 and you will be Really Good!!! Then you can Add a 2nd 1070 later and it will give you a Nice Boost... 2x 1070 in SLI gives between a 30 to 40% gain over the 1080.

The Base 1070 and 1080 are Not that far apart performance wise... Only 7 to 10% But the 1080 cost almost Double!!!

1070 is a good way to keep opening PC build expence Cheap and beef it up as you go... Just make sure you get a beefy PC case so you can Add add and have enough room to add more...LOL

This Video is what convinced Me to Go 2x 1070 sli... Check the stats.
https://youtu.be/Xf6RmKhSApw

Also i see MIcro Center selling Decent prebuild Gaming PC on line $1,300 and up with Good GPU, CPU and Mem Specs. its worth a look even.if your not buying yet... this way you can take your time and figure out exactly what you Need.

Haiden

01-09-2016, 04:48

Ive been looking into building one but I don't have a micro center so I have to order everything. From what I have seen so far I could build a pretty good gaming pc for 2300 dollars roughly.

The Base 1070 and 1080 are Not that far apart performance wise... Only 7 to 10% But the 1080 cost almost Double!!!

1070 is a good way to keep opening PC build expence Cheap and beef it up as you go... Just make sure you get a beefy PC case so you can Add add and have enough room to add more...LOL

True. But something to keep in mind... Today, a single 1080 powers a single screen just fine. A 1070 will, too, but not quite as well. What you're paying for with the 1080 is a nice bit of future proofing and better VR capability. There's a reason the 1060s - 1080s were all launched around the same time, and it was about more than price points. The 1070 only has about 3/4 the cores of the 1080, which is one of the reasons the 1080 is recommended over the 1070 for VR use and better suited to deal with future gaming needs. Mores cores means more processes running simultaneously. Don't forget, today's benchmarks are based on the architecture of today's games. The reason the performance is so close today is because not many games are taking advantage of the 1080s additional cores. As games get more complex and the architecture changes, so do the benchmarks. Same goes for CPUs, by the way. The i7 has twice as many cores as the i5. But right now, it doesn't pay for developers to make a game that full utilizes the 1080, because there's too many 970s - 1070s currently in use. Architecture changes slowly, or when some developers decides they won't compromise and they're making their game for high-end PC. Think back to Crysis. Not many PC could run that game when it came out. But if you had one that could, it was beautiful... LOL

Also, something to remember... Budget constraints aside... Yes, you have to keep an eye on tomorrow, but you're buying for today. If you truly need the power today (multi-screen or running Ultra settings at 120+ fps), then go with two 1070s. If you're only planning to run a single screen setup, then go with the 1080. Reason being, right now, you can get two 1070s for about $800, and you'll have more power than a 1080 today. But tomorrow is a different story. As games get more complex, the additional cores in the 1080 will start making a difference. If you go with two 1070s today, down the road, you're going to have to either get a third 1070 (which would be silly, because by then the 1090 or 1100 series will be the current card), or you can buy a 1080. And by then, you'll probably be able to get a 1080 for about $300-$400. So your total expense over time between the two options will look like this....

So basically, in the end, if you go with a 1080 today, you will spend roughly the same amount or less over time, but you end up with two 1080s. And my 1080 pricing was a little high. Mine was only $650. If you buy two 1070s today and end up buying two 1080s in the future, you could be out roughly $1,600.

IMO, going with a single 1070 or 1080 today gives you the best upgrade path. Either card will handle your needs today, but you'll end up with more power (for the same price) in the future, when you actually need it.

inthebagbud

01-09-2016, 05:51

I feel like you do.You just don't get the same feeling in ac. The sense of speed isn't there and it feels more like a game. I totally agree that it seems much easier then pcars. Is the ai on xbox stupidly fast? I know it was mentioned on the isrtv review. Is the sound screwed up on xbox too?

I am not sure they are stupidly fast but the assist play a part. By default assists are on and in 1st career race I couldn't win on medium AI so I turned assists off and I can now win on hard and be top order pack on alien .

It's not a conclusive experiment as not had enough time in game but the traction control was slowing me down for sure

The only sound issue I have is sometimes there is a low level noise like a speaker vibrating sometimes

BigDad

01-09-2016, 06:01

Or like me go for a GTX1060 and Game at 4K 60fps for a third the cost of a 1080 and as the prices of 1080's go down get a Titan, lol.
Everything I play is running at as high or higher fps than the PS4 I was playing on but at 4K or if I was to play at 1080p the fps would exceed 100 as tested by me in AC, NMS, R3E, AMS and Crysis 3 with ultra settings.
So if 1080p is your goal the GTX1060 will easily play all current and future games a very high fps with ultra settings.
If 4K is your goal then the GTX1060 will play all current games at just lower than ultra at console fps.
All at a third the cost of a GTX1080.

inthebagbud

01-09-2016, 06:05

When you say easier, do you mean feel or in terms of lap times? I can't match my PCars lap times in AC or R3E.
.

I havent tested like for like so not sure about laptimes, but definately easier in terms of feel . Now this might be about getting used to the nuances of the physics but as I said I can definately learn a brand new track quicker in ac than pcars .

konnos

01-09-2016, 09:25

i will add to this: do you feel that you are learning the track more easily or do you actually see it in the laptimes immediately? I will also say, the AC tracks are a bit limited and the Italy based ones are a little predictable in their layout and are quick to get the hang of it. One of the things that bother me in AC is the lack of official tracks.

So is anyone going to be kind enough to share their T300 settings for R3E please?

BigDad

01-09-2016, 10:12

I find racing in AC driving with a H pattern shifter alot more natural than in pCars. I feel I have time to change before corner entry and get the car balanced where in pCars I always seem to still be changing in corner entry.
Most of the time in pCars I would just use auto clutch and use the paddles and in AC i always use the appropriate shifter per car.

morpwr

01-09-2016, 10:53

The AI is pretty tough in AC. I've been keeping them at 85, and it's been competitive.

When you say easier, do you mean feel or in terms of lap times? I can't match my PCars lap times in AC or R3E.

Dude..screw Sony, seriously. Something I've realized since I've been on PC is, with regards to sim racing, consoles have made a huge leap. But sims are so complex, that you still lose a lot when playing them on console. I didn't realize how much, because I'd never raced on anything but console. When I was PC gaming, I was into shooters and flight simulators. So my racing experience started with Forza 1. But consoles still have a way to go for complex simulation. Hats off to SMS for packing as much as they could into PCars on console. There really wasn't anything else like it, and, from the initial reviews, it seems like Kunos was unable to get the same economy of scale/complexity into the AC port, and it's missing quite a bit.

But, anyway, if you think you're into sim racing for the long haul (I know you are. I'm just talking to anyone in general here). Then PC is the way to go. Make the move as soon as you can, and you'll be much happier with your options and overall experience.

Another thing on consoles that is different. We have 4 settings no slider. Not sure about how the lap times compare but it seems easier to get used to tracks like inthebagbud said. I think part of it is the sense of speed is different in ac and seems to slow things down.

morpwr

01-09-2016, 11:03

I am not sure they are stupidly fast but the assist play a part. By default assists are on and in 1st career race I couldn't win on medium AI so I turned assists off and I can now win on hard and be top order pack on alien .

It's not a conclusive experiment as not had enough time in game but the traction control was slowing me down for sure

The only sound issue I have is sometimes there is a low level noise like a speaker vibrating sometimes

I havent run any career stuff yet but I know in the regular races I'm about the same as you are. I don't use assists either. I figured start on hard as I'm normally 80-100 on pcars .In ac on hard I was like holy hell the ai is fast. I know in the isrtv video when they tested it he said he was having a hard time keeping up and turned it down to medium.The sound on ps4 is screwed. Sometimes the volume is normal then I think it shuts off most of the speakers or something because I keep losing the buttkicker and its really quiet. Which is really annoying.

Haiden

01-09-2016, 11:53

I havent tested like for like so not sure about laptimes, but definately easier in terms of feel . Now this might be about getting used to the nuances of the physics but as I said I can definately learn a brand new track quicker in ac than pcars .

i will add to this: do you feel that you are learning the track more easily or do you actually see it in the laptimes immediately? I will also say, the AC tracks are a bit limited and the Italy based ones are a little predictable in their layout and are quick to get the hang of it. One of the things that bother me in AC is the lack of official tracks.

So is anyone going to be kind enough to share their T300 settings for R3E please?

I find racing in AC driving with a H pattern shifter alot more natural than in pCars. I feel I have time to change before corner entry and get the car balanced where in pCars I always seem to still be changing in corner entry.
Most of the time in pCars I would just use auto clutch and use the paddles and in AC i always use the appropriate shifter per car.

I've never really had a problem learning tracks. I just go slow and gain speed as I go, so it's the same in AC. That said, AC and PCars have different FOVs. If you run the multi-game FOV finder, you get totally different FOV values for me AC=54 and PCars=85-90. FOV has a lot to do with your perception of speed in a single screen setup.

I think AC's FOV and sense of speed is actually more realistic. I watch quite a bit of racing, and PCars seems to move too fast. Like BigDad said, when you use the shifter, you realize how little time you actually have going into the corners. When I watch real racing, the onboard views are slower than PCars. And the drivers seem to have more time to prepare and set their lines. That makes a huge difference. So, while I agree the sense of speed differs between the two, I think PCars is the one that's too fast. Both AC and R3E move at about the same speed to me.

BigDad - What I liked about AC was that with the default Fanatec settings (H, SQ, and paddles all separate buttons), AC would force you to use the right one, ignoring paddles and H-shift, it was sequential. Unfortunately, I had to link SQ and Paddles, because PCars doesn't differentiate and won't recognize the shifter in SQ mode, unless they're emulating paddles. Now, I have to know whether the car is H or SQ and use the appropriate style. I don't always know, which is why I liked AC controlling it. :( Not sure how R3E handles it. I had already linked them before I got the game.

Haiden

01-09-2016, 11:56

Another thing on consoles that is different. We have 4 settings no slider. Not sure about how the lap times compare but it seems easier to get used to tracks like inthebagbud said. I think part of it is the sense of speed is different in ac and seems to slow things down.

On PC, you have a difficulty slider, but it doesn't go lower than 80...LOL. I think inthebagbud is right. When I first started AC, the AI seemed very hard. 80-85 difficulty was all I could do to remain competitive. Now I can run it higher. I thought it was just because I had gotten more used to the driving, but I also turned assists off. So maybe the AI changes and not me.

Haiden

01-09-2016, 12:07

Or like me go for a GTX1060 and Game at 4K 60fps for a third the cost of a 1080 and as the prices of 1080's go down get a Titan, lol.
Everything I play is running at as high or higher fps than the PS4 I was playing on but at 4K or if I was to play at 1080p the fps would exceed 100 as tested by me in AC, NMS, R3E, AMS and Crysis 3 with ultra settings.
So if 1080p is your goal the GTX1060 will easily play all current and future games a very high fps with ultra settings.
If 4K is your goal then the GTX1060 will play all current games at just lower than ultra at console fps.
All at a third the cost of a GTX1080.

Exactly, the difference between the 1000 series cards isn't really a power thing. They didn't make three cards with price points differing by the hundreds, just for a little extra fps. People don't pay $300 more for a few extra frames. They pay for more cores, faster clock speeds--basically, more architectural capacity in general (VR, future demands, etc.). Games follow the tech, not the other way around. The cards have to be developed and the dev kits released, before developers can start designing their games to use the new improvements. And even then, it usually takes them a while to learn how max the new card's capabilities and the card maker to get their drivers dialed in to perfection (which is why console games get better through the console's life cycle, even though the hardware isn't changing). The performance gap between the 900 series cards and the 1000 series cards will likely increase over time, as the 1000 series drivers get better (right now, the 900 series cards have well-developed drivers and run as efficiently as the architecture allows). You may also see the performance gap increase within the 1000 series cards for the same reason.

GrimeyDog

01-09-2016, 14:25

The Diff between the Cards is Minimal...
The one Big Diff is the 1060 is Not SLI capable.

The 1080 is the all in 1 performance package and is SLI Capable if you want More in the future...Most that go 1080 probably wont do SLI they will stay with the 1 card until there is a major price drop... But by then it will be time to upgrade to the Next Gen.

The 1070 is the performace plud Package for the here and Now ...you can use 1 or you can do a SLI set up for even better performance at a Price point that wont hurt your pockets too badly... Think about it... If your going to spend $700. on a 1080 GPU but you cannget better performance with 2x 1070 SLI for 200 more why Not Go for it??? its Not that big of a price diff.

As For Me i didnt mind paying for the extra FPS and performance that i get here and Now....by the time its time to upgrade these cards will be some what out dated.

also when DX 12 fully takes over no more Need for SLI... DX12 can access each GPU individually for even Greater performance gains.

Its all about choice.. I choose the here and Now... tomorrow all our systems may be out dated!!! LOL

When its time to upgrade i will pribably do so right away and Sell the 2x 1070FTW cards without yaking a Huge Loss... 40% Loss after 2 years is acceptable... GPU cards retain decent resale Value.

Any card you choose you cant lose.. They are all Good.
With DX12 being able to access each GPU independently without SLI for even better performance than SLI gives... when More Game Devs DX12 it the 1060 is Looking like a Real winner because of its performance and lower price point... Many will buy it.

Edit: By default 2x cards in SLI give more Cores and faster GPU Clock Speed... Nope the speed will Not increase per Card but each card will run at its maximum speed more efficiently because its sharing the work load.

at the end of the day it really comes down to Preference and Budget.

GrimeyDog

01-09-2016, 15:51

In other News!!!
This is Very Big Bews for V2/V1 wheel owner who have Multiple Wgeel Rims!!!

When they Launch their DD wheels im on it right away!!!

Note He Said "DD wheels"!!! so there will probably be different models with Varying strength!!! Nice

RomKnight

01-09-2016, 16:02

Happy days... although I won't buy anything else this year and I want VR before that.

But i'll get there :)

morpwr

01-09-2016, 16:38

In other News!!!
This is Very Big Bews for V2/V1 wheel owner who have Multiple Wgeel Rims!!!

When they Launch their DD wheels im on it right away!!!

Note He Said "DD wheels"!!! so there will probably be different models with Varying strength!!! Nice

fanatec with a dd wheel? i wonder when its coming out.

tennenbaum

01-09-2016, 16:52

I've never really had a problem learning tracks. I just go slow and gain speed as I go, so it's the same in AC. That said, AC and PCars have different FOVs. If you run the multi-game FOV finder, you get totally different FOV values for me AC=54 and PCars=85-90. FOV has a lot to do with your perception of speed in a single screen setup.

I think AC's FOV and sense of speed is actually more realistic. I watch quite a bit of racing, and PCars seems to move too fast. Like BigDad said, when you use the shifter, you realize how little time you actually have going into the corners. When I watch real racing, the onboard views are slower than PCars. And the drivers seem to have more time to prepare and set their lines. That makes a huge difference. So, while I agree the sense of speed differs between the two, I think PCars is the one that's too fast. Both AC and R3E move at about the same speed to me.

BigDad - What I liked about AC was that with the default Fanatec settings (H, SQ, and paddles all separate buttons), AC would force you to use the right one, ignoring paddles and H-shift, it was sequential. Unfortunately, I had to link SQ and Paddles, because PCars doesn't differentiate and won't recognize the shifter in SQ mode, unless they're emulating paddles. Now, I have to know whether the car is H or SQ and use the appropriate style. I don't always know, which is why I liked AC controlling it. :( Not sure how R3E handles it. I had already linked them before I got the game.

Good notice about FOV and the sense of speed. Also what BigDad says about changing gears is very interesting. Since "racetime" and the car's speed must be the same i wonder how PCars achieves to be visually a bit faster. You can also see such difference between the PCars Monaco track and the same track in F1 2015. http://www.teamvvv.com/en/news/comments/Project-CARS-vs-F1-2015-Monaco-comparison

In the video it looks as if PCars expands the geometry of the 3D space along the z-depth-axis. Then they compensate the „longer than real“ distance by moving closer objects overproportionally faster towards you. This way „reassembling“ the „true“ distance, so the don’t corrupt the „true“ speed. Anyway, PCars seems „faster“ because you have the feeling the cars’s speed is higher, while with F1 2015 you feel „faster“ because you feel tighter „wrapped“ into the environment. Obviously beside changing FOV you can also change the feel of speed by fumbling the space geometry.

In PCars i use to drive with the camera on the bonnet, while in AC i like the height of the bumper camera which is a bit higher than in Pcars. So with the bumper cam in AC i can compensate the speed feeling.

After i did some more test laps on Brands Hatch GP track with the Corvette C7R, which is the same in both games, i think i can say audio is a bit better in Pcars, but it depends also on the Cars. The Ferraris in AC simply sound georgeous.

The AI in AC is good. And tough even on lowest difficulty. I was asking myself how beginners will feel like...? It seems AI of AC keeps the cars closer together, which leads to a nice „density“. On the other hand it happens much more often in AC that they bump into you rear. Stupids.

Sounds, visuals and FFB tactile feeling, and of course replays, it seems all a bit more intense in Pcars. Not mentioning the telemetry, more cars, more tracks, more features, more of everything...

But one little thing in AC really hooks me up: My driving is more intuitive, a tiny little bit more like in a real car. The fact that you can control the oversteer with the throttle better than in Pcars adds a lot to the immersion. Which gives me plenty of fun. I don’t think AC is easier to drive and learn, it just gives you a tad more control „at the edge“.I assume thats why I’m minimally faster in AC.

Hoewever, to everybody who stumbles accross this forum occasionally being in doubt about which game to prefer, or which is the better or the more real driving simulator: don’t puzzle your head over it. It’s about nuances. Both games are great sims, with incredible physic engines.

While i compared both games physics, it just popped to mind: Let go! Don’t compare while you drive! Allow the immersion to kick in.:D (BTW: Grimey, what's your analysis?)

GrimeyDog

01-09-2016, 17:35

Happy days... although I won't buy anything else this year and I want VR before that.

But i'll get there :)

Yes!!! I want to Go VR!!! Im waiting until tbey get the VR tech better before i get it though.

GrimeyDog

01-09-2016, 17:44

fanatec with a dd wheel? i wonder when its coming out.

I wouldnt expect it before Next year... they usually launch their Line up late August with Nov to Dec delivery... thats how it was when i ordered the CSR Elite and V2.... IIRC it was same with the 911 gt2 wheel but i didn't get My Gt2 until 2010 after reading and Checking reviews on it.

Im Gonna get the DD wheel Soon as its out!!!

I think im Gonna sell the Gt2 and the TX458 on Ebay or ISR...I havent used them in years... I pulled them out to test Pcars a while ago but they Quickly went back to their resting place.

Haiden

01-09-2016, 17:51

fanatec with a dd wheel? i wonder when its coming out.

Don't know, but I will have one. I've been waiting for this.

Jezza819

01-09-2016, 18:14

I think im Gonna sell the Gt2 and the TX458 on Ebay or ISR...I havent used them in years... I pulled them out to test Pcars a while ago but they Quickly went back to their resting place.

I sold my GT2 to someone here at work but I've kept my TX458 just in case something happened to the V2. Sure enough when the V2 had to go back to Fanatec to have the noise and no communication problem fixed, I had the TX458 as a backup. But I currently have a little extra space in my apartment to keep a backup wheel. But I plan on downsizing next fall so I'm going to have to get rid of the TX458.

morpwr

01-09-2016, 18:21

I wouldnt expect it before Next year... they usually launch their Line up late August with Nov to Dec delivery... thats how it was when i ordered the CSR Elite and V2.... IIRC it was same with the 911 gt2 wheel but i didn't get My Gt2 until 2010 after reading and Checking reviews on it.

Im Gonna get the DD wheel Soon as its out!!!

I think im Gonna sell the Gt2 and the TX458 on Ebay or ISR...I havent used them in years... I pulled them out to test Pcars a while ago but they Quickly went back to their resting place.

wonder how the kids will feel about not eating.lol

GrimeyDog

01-09-2016, 18:22

I sold my GT2 to someone here at work but I've kept my TX458 just in case something happened to the V2. Sure enough when the V2 had to go back to Fanatec to have the noise and no communication problem fixed, I had the TX458 as a backup. But I currently have a little extra space in my apartment to keep a backup wheel. But I plan on downsizing next fall so I'm going to have to get rid of the TX458.

Yes same here... I have 4 wheels 5 if i count the MS wireless wheel... The Man Kave is Getting Crowded... I plan to keep the CSR Elite and V1 pedals as back up Gear... Gonna put the Tx458 & T500 pedals up for sale same time i put the Gt2 wheel up for sale... Its just Hard mentally... I'm a Sim Gear hoarder!!! LOL

Haiden

01-09-2016, 18:32

The AI in AC is good. And tough even on lowest difficulty. I was asking myself how beginners will feel like...? It seems AI of AC keeps the cars closer together, which leads to a nice „density“. On the other hand it happens much more often in AC that they bump into you rear. Stupids.

Sounds, visuals and FFB tactile feeling, and of course replays, it seems all a bit more intense in Pcars. Not mentioning the telemetry, more cars, more tracks, more features, more of everything...

But one little thing in AC really hooks me up: My driving is more intuitive, a tiny little bit more like in a real car. The fact that you can control the oversteer with the throttle better than in Pcars adds a lot to the immersion. Which gives me plenty of fun. I don’t think AC is easier to drive and learn, it just gives you a tad more control „at the edge“.I assume thats why I’m minimally faster in AC.

Hoewever, to everybody who stumbles accross this forum occasionally being in doubt about which game to prefer, or which is the better or the more real driving simulator: don’t puzzle your head over it. It’s about nuances. Both games are great sims, with incredible physic engines.

I agree on the AI. I was wondering about new drivers, too, because on PC 80 is the lowest you can set the difficulty. I've never been rear ended by AI in AC. On PC, the problem I've seen is they sometimes brake too soon, and I rear end them....LOL

I completely agree about the intuitive feel. I truly like the FFB in PCars, but I just think AC's feels a little more realistic, which is why it seems more intuitive. It's what you already know. :)

Between AC and PCars, the sound is a car by car thing. But R3E trumps them both. R3E has awesome sound.

And yes. There's no which is better. They are different, but each is a hell of a lot of fun to play. :)

Edit: Another difference I just realized this morning. I played PCars last night, then hopped on AC this morning. PCars is very forgiving on the downshifting. In fact, it's actually too forgiving, letting you run down through the gears way too fast. Other than the engine damage from high revs, you have to almost downshift at an unbelievable fast rate to get the back end to step out. You try going down the gears too fast in AC, you will lose the backend in a heartbeat. I think this is another reason why I like AC and R3E's FOV and sense of speed.

I think PCars is forcing the sense of speed. But your sense of speed is more derived from how fast things are moving by in your peripheral vision. In a triple screen setup, the sense of speed in AC and R3E's would be spot on if you have the right FOV settings. So the fact that they seem a little slower with a single screen, seems more accurate from a simulation stand point, at least to me.

Also I have to disagree about the replays. PCars' replays aren't that good. There are a lot of graphical errors that kind of ruin it. :(

Haiden

01-09-2016, 18:43

wonder how the kids will feel about not eating.lol

Have them race for food. That will reduce your overall food expense. :)

rosko

01-09-2016, 19:11

So, you're on the PC version of AC and that's how it feels to you?

yes

rosko

01-09-2016, 19:23

You guys on PC, just checking, you all know there is a program called "lut generator"? It makes a file that AC can use that alters the wheel's force curve, kinda like what scoops+drr does. The advantage is that you can alter each "notch" individually to fully match and linearise your wheel. Check it out, if you haven't. Note: if you use the lut file, you will need to set the in-game minimum force to zero, as the lut generator already compensates for it.

Edit: Since we re sharing ffb settings, what are the T300 guys using for R3E please and same for AC for PC?

It doesn't work with the Thrustmaster wheels as far as i can tell, most people report a very rattly wheel at centre. If anyone has it working with the lut & TM wheel im interested in how. Was about to start a thread about the lut generator & TM on the AC forums but not got round to it.

Haiden

01-09-2016, 19:35

It doesn't work with the Thrustmaster wheels as far as i can tell, most people report a very rattly wheel at centre. If anyone has it working with the lut & TM wheel im interested in how. Was about to start a thread about the lut generator & TM on the AC forums but not got round to it.

Yeah... most of the good reviews I saw were from Logitech wheel user. The CSW-v2 isn't that far from linear anyway, and AC feel fine to me, so I'm not going to bother with it.

konnos

01-09-2016, 20:29

If you are having rattly center with the lut file, edit the first few "steps" to less aggressive values. It's sort of like having high DRR and DRF in PCars, you need to dial them back a bit.

You also need to edit ffpostprocess cfg file to enable the custom lut file, as per the instructions in the lut generator. But I can't share mine, the forum won't let me do it.

I think it should be specific to the wheel so i don' think there is much point to upload. When you say first few values are we talking 2, 5, 10? I tried to smooth out the first 10 up to value 0.1. I did a count of 100 in my test. It has helped but i'm stabbing in the dark a bit, more of a vibration than rattle now. I don't even mind the vibration as could pass as road & engine vibrations but it stops when i turn the wheel so breaks immersion. It definitely feels far more linear when i rotate, but now tends to be a bit too much tugging around of the wheel.

konnos

01-09-2016, 22:52

Yes it is specific, but we have the same base and from what we have seen in this thread as well, the values are pretty identical, give or take. So try it if you want.

Copy those 2 files into Documents/Asseto Corsa/cfg

Haiden

02-09-2016, 00:04

Actually I turned that on tonight and its a world of difference. Just had to turn the ffb up a little to compensate. I'm pretty happy at this point other then the lack of any brake feel until you lock them up. Its not pcars but its pretty good. I will say the ai is pretty good to race with. Now they just need to fix all the issues on consoles.

You know. I realized something today, with regards to AC's braking. On PC, the CSP-v3 rumble motors kick in when braking. And when running Fanaleds, you can control the threshold when that rumble kicks in. I can't remember what I set mine to, but I know it kicks around 95% brake pressure, just before lock. That's probably why the lack of braking feel doesn't bother me.

Haiden

02-09-2016, 01:42

The Diff between the Cards is Minimal...
The one Big Diff is the 1060 is Not SLI capable.

The 1080 is the all in 1 performance package and is SLI Capable if you want More in the future...Most that go 1080 probably wont do SLI they will stay with the 1 card until there is a major price drop... But by then it will be time to upgrade to the Next Gen.

There's actually a lot more to it than that. And, no...they won't be obsolete. The 900 series were released in 2014, and they are still very much in play, currently #1 in market share (the 960 is currently 3rd). That doesn't sound like obsolescence to me. They have at least a couple more years to go, at least. In a year or two the 1080s price will drop, I'll grab another. SLI or DX12, the two will be far more powerful than dual 1070s for about the same end cost. And as new tech is developed to utilize the 1080's additional cores and 5X memory, the 1070 and 1060 will just have to get by.

However, you might have easily overlooked the GTX 1080 utilising the new GDDR5X memory module, whilst the GTX 1070 and GTX 1060 both use the GDDR5 module.

GDDR5X offers a new and improved way of transferring 1s and 0s within the GPU's architecture. In essence, GDDR5X allows double the theoretical bandwidth speed of traditional GDDR5 memory. This also explains why the GTX 1080 has a memory clock of 10Gbps versus the GTX 1070 and 1060's 8Gbps clock speed.

What does this mean in the real-world?

The higher bandwidth memory of the GTX 1080 allows it to run a third faster than the GTX 1070, GTX 1060 and other GDDR5 cards. This means that in intensive memory applications and programs, the GTX 1080 will perform better. Put into perspective, if you're going to be running two 4K displays and run the GTX 1080 on max settings, its GDDR5X memory will be able to cope with the added load on the GPU, whereas the GTX 1070 will suffer from a drop in framerates and the GTX 1060 might not even run it!

The GTX 1080 also runs on a higher core- and boost clock, which results in better overall framerate performance.

Given its specs and benchmark performances, the GTX 1080 will be the go-to choice for those wanting to get into the world of VR. Therefore, we might see features in the future aimed at those who have the GTX 1080 versus those who have a GTX 1070 or a GTX 1060.

However, it goes without saying that the GTX 1070 is fully VR-compatible and is a fantastic card for those into virtual reality gaming.

That's true. The 1070 is a solid card, but the 1080 architecture is just a little more robust and prepared for next gen applications. And next gen GPUs will more than likely have the same or similar architecture as the 1080. And as developers start learning to utilize the 5X memory and higher clock speeds, the 1070s and 1060s will start to struggle with high settings.

Also, here's another good site. One to one, the 1080 just outperforms the 1070. The 1070's strength is price to cost ratio. A 3 series BMW is a great value compared to a 7. But I'd rather have the 7 series. :)

In terms of performance the gap between the flagship 1080 and 1070 averages 25%.

http://gpu.userbenchmark.com/

I don't disagree that a dual 1070 SLI setup is faster than a single 1080. I just think a dual 1070 SLI setup is overkill for a single screen setup, running 60 fps, and wouldn't recommend that. One 1060 can push 4K @ 60 fps. Ask BigDad. He's doing it just fine. So why spend the extra cash now, when you don't even need the power right now? If VRs your direction, then, again, one 1080 is more than enough. And it's advanced architecture makes it the better choice for that.

But, to each his own. If you're happy with it...great. I'm happy with mine, and will be for a long time to come. When games push into the next envelope, I'll just add one more 1080. I won't have to sell my current GPUs and replace them to catch up.

GrimeyDog

02-09-2016, 03:01

There's actually a lot more to it than that. And, no...they won't be obsolete. The 900 series were released in 2014, and they are still very much in play, currently #1 in market share (the 960 is currently 3rd). That doesn't sound like obsolescence to me. They have at least a couple more years to go, at least. In a year or two the 1080s price will drop, I'll grab another. SLI or DX12, the two will be far more powerful than dual 1070s for about the same end cost. And as new tech is developed to utilize the 1080's additional cores and 5X memory, the 1070 and 1060 will just have to get by.

That's true. The 1070 is a solid card, but the 1080 architecture is just a little more robust and prepared for next gen applications. And next gen GPUs will more than likely have the same or similar architecture as the 1080. And as developers start learning to utilize the 5X memory and higher clock speeds, the 1070s and 1060s will start to struggle with high settings.

Also, here's another good site. One to one, the 1080 just outperforms the 1070. The 1070's strength is price to cost ratio. A 3 series BMW is a great value compared to a 7. But I'd rather have the 7 series. :)

I don't disagree that a dual 1070 SLI setup is faster than a single 1080. I just think a dual 1070 SLI setup is overkill for a single screen setup, running 60 fps, and wouldn't recommend that. One 1060 can push 4K @ 60 fps. Ask BigDad. He's doing it just fine. So why spend the extra cash now, when you don't even need the power right now? If VRs your direction, then, again, one 1080 is more than enough. And it's advanced architecture makes it the better choice for that.

But, to each his own. If you're happy with it...great. I'm happy with mine, and will be for a long time to come. When games push into the next envelope, I'll just add one more 1080. I won't have to sell my current GPUs and replace them to catch up.

Next year when prices come Down/ over Kill power :rolleyes: Baaaah!!! Like i said I'm Living for the here and right Now:yes: 2x 1070 SLI I'm more than happy for the here and now and i will worry about Later/Next Year/ Price drops when it gets here:yes:

The 2x SLI set up I'm pretty future proof for a while... our cards will fade out in the same time frame None will have a much longer life span than the other...its all the same tech so no matter how you look at it as the new tec comes out these cards will all play out at the same rate... its Not like 1 has super or different tech than the others:no: i did my research and 1070 SLI was the best bang for the buck... while your waiting for ??? to go SLI i am enjoying it here and Now to the fullest... Nope i don't care that 1 screen is not taking full advantage, yup im limited to 60FPS because of the TV also... fact of the matter is im Happy and the PC is ready for which ever direction i choose to go when ever i choose to go No upgrade needed.

They are all good cards... There was a definite marketing stratagy behind them all... The 1070 was priced at a point it was ment to be candy for a SLI build for the I want My cake here and now crowd.

The 1080 was priced at the point for people like you that will upgrade to SLI when they feel they have to to keep up with the demands of New Tec.

The 1060 was priced to be budget friendly performance...Hook you in and next thing you know you want to upgrade.

They didn't release all the cards at the same and put them at Low, Mid and a high price points by mistake... They fully realized that those who bought a 1070 were likely to buy 2 because of the price point... with 1070 SLI your keeping up or out performing the some of the better cards out there at a lower cost... even if you wait to get a 2nd 1080 the total spent will still be more than what i spent and you will wait and wait to see your system perform at SLI max...Wait too long and SLI will be Needed to keep up instead of maximize!!! Live for the here and now!!!

LOL I save sooo Much $$$ just by staying home gaming this thing will pay for its self !!! true story!!!

Haiden

02-09-2016, 04:17

Next year when prices come Down/ over Kill power :rolleyes: Baaaah!!! Like i said I'm Living for the here and right Now:yes: 2x 1070 SLI I'm more than happy for the here and now and i will worry about Later/Next Year/ Price drops when it gets here:yes:

The 2x SLI set up I'm pretty future proof for a while... our cards will fade out in the same time frame None will have a much longer life span than the other...its all the same tech so no matter how you look at it as the new tec comes out these cards will all play out at the same rate... its Not like 1 has super or different tech than the others:no: i did my research and 1070 SLI was the best bang for the buck... while your waiting for ??? to go SLI i am enjoying it here and Now to the fullest... Nope i don't care that 1 screen is not taking full advantage, yup im limited to 60FPS because of the TV also... fact of the matter is im Happy and the PC is ready for which ever direction i choose to go when ever i choose to go No upgrade needed.

They are all good cards... There was a definite marketing stratagy behind them all... The 1070 was priced at a point it was ment to be candy for a SLI build for the I want My cake here and now crowd.

The 1080 was priced at the point for people like you that will upgrade to SLI when they feel they have to to keep up with the demands of New Tec.

The 1060 was priced to be budget friendly performance...Hook you in and next thing you know you want to upgrade.

They didn't release all the cards at the same and put them at Low, Mid and a high price points by mistake... They fully realized that those who bought a 1070 were likely to buy 2 because of the price point... with 1070 SLI your keeping up or out performing the some of the better cards out there at a lower cost... even if you wait to get a 2nd 1080 the total spent will still be more than what i spent and you will wait and wait to see your system perform at SLI max...Wait too long and SLI will be Needed to keep up instead of maximize!!! Live for the here and now!!!

LOL I save sooo Much $$$ just by staying home gaming this thing will pay for its self !!! true story!!!

LOL...Enjoying what? We're both running 4K at 60 fps right now. I'm not waiting for anything, but I am prepared for it. The only difference is, you paid more for your build to run the same 60 fps that a single 1000 series card can run, and now have no GPU upgrade path, unless you're going to buy a third card or replace the two altogether...LOL. Look at the overall cost of our two builds, compared to the guts. I got an i7 processor, an M7 mobo, liquid cooler, and twice the RAM. The difference? $2,000 vs $2,200 to run the same 60 fps.

You're right, though. The 1070 was made to be today's SLI candy. Personally, I just wouldn't buy that much candy to run one screen at 60 fps. I would expect to see that pushing triples, or at least a high end gaming monitor running 120+ fps. But, IDK...maybe your 60 fps looks better than my 60 fps. :rolleyes:

GrimeyDog

02-09-2016, 09:00

LOL...Enjoying what? We're both running 4K at 60 fps right now. I'm not waiting for anything, but I am prepared for it. The only difference is, you paid more for your build to run the same 60 fps that a single 1000 series card can run, and now have no GPU upgrade path, unless you're going to buy a third card or replace the two altogether...LOL. Look at the overall cost of our two builds, compared to the guts. I got an i7 processor, an M7 mobo, liquid cooler, and twice the RAM. The difference? $2,000 vs $2,200 to run the same 60 fps.

You're right, though. The 1070 was made to be today's SLI candy. Personally, I just wouldn't buy that much candy to run one screen at 60 fps. I would expect to see that pushing triples, or at least a high end gaming monitor running 120+ fps. But, IDK...maybe your 60 fps looks better than my 60 fps. :rolleyes:

The FPS dont Mean Much...Here and Now I can push My Graphics settings Higher than you can and Maintain Higher/Stable FPS because of the 2x 1070 SLI and Depending on the Game that can make a Huge Diff!!!
The 1070 is a Great place to Start and upgrade to 2x if you Want More at a Decent Price.

Like i said im about the Here and Now... I will Have No Need to upgrade besides i want to... All 3 Model Cards are the Same Tec... All 3 cards will all phase out at the Same time...You/Your card will be like the Old some what physically fit person that thinks they can Hold on and Keep up with the New generation:rolleyes:

Also i went with the i5 because the i7 for Me was just more $$$... as it is Now Gaming is the same i5 or I7 it makes No Diff by the time i Need to upgrade the i5 there will be something New that will better Maximize Gaming than the i7 and thats what we all will run out to get....With Tec advancing sooo rapidly there is No way to really future proof your PC.

Edit: the extra 16GB of Ram is useless right Now...Nothing as far a Gaming is making use of it...you may Need it if your Multi tasking but even then so much Ram is Not Needed...idunno but RAM is Cheap +16GB RAM maybe $50. and 5min install No big Deal there:no:

Here is where i feel i got Ripped off though!!! LOL... i put a blue Ray Drive/Player in it... MS and Sony have Beef sooo Blue Ray Movies wont play in it!!! F*ck:livid: Shruggs oooh well so the PS4 still has a useful purpose as a Blue Ray DVD player:o

The End Result is always the same when you decide to upgrade you will spend More $$$ to get the performance you want/Need and thats that.

Any of the cards would be a Great pic for Here and Now.
Big Dad 1060 and He is Very Happy:yes:
You 1080 and your Happy:yes::yes:
Me 2x 1070 Sli im Very Happy:yes::yes::yes:

Were Happy thats all that matters:victorious:

In other News i bought the 4 packs i like most for Race Room last Night and 2 packs for Assetto Corsa!!! Getting Ready for the 3 day weekend Race Marathon:yes:

are you gonna be on we can run a few.... Big Dad will you be on??? Lets Do it:yes:

GrimeyDog

02-09-2016, 11:02

https://youtu.be/LC_sx6A5Wko

Check this Video... $5,000 GPU that wont beat a Titan for Gaming!!!

GPU selection is all about what you intend to use it for.

My PC was Built for Gaming only... 2x 1070 SLI was the right choice for Me.

the 1080 by its self Closely Matches the Titan Card ... 1070FTW SLI combo beats a Titan...Except in DX12 but No SLI works Good in DX12... well that is until they come out with New Drivers that work better with DX12!!!

I can See where the 1080 GDDRX5 Mem can be a advantage later.... But remember its only Theorectically 1/3rd faster... The Tec is Not out yet Hopefully they will perfect it... It will make a Better diff for all cards in the long run....for Me its all about the here and Now... Im sure as they did with the 970/980 the Drivers will be Maximized to bring even More out of the 1060, 1070 & 1080 cards... We will be Good for a few years.

If i get 5 Good years out of $900. i call that a Win!!! Because by then it will be just like My GT2 to CSR Elite to V2 wheel upgrades... there was No Real Reason the upgrade was Needed but because there is a Newer product that performs better i upgraded.... Same will be the Case when the Fanatec DD wheel comes out!!! All of My other wheels work fine but i and Many others maybe even you too will upgrade just because we want the Best Here and Now performance available.

Haiden

02-09-2016, 12:50

The FPS dont Mean Much...Here and Now I can push My Graphics settings Higher than you can and Maintain Higher/Stable FPS because of the 2x 1070 SLI and Depending on the Game that can make a Huge Diff!!!

Like i said im about the Here and Now... I will Have No Need to upgrade besides i want to... All 3 Model Cards are the Same Tec... All 3 cards will all phase out at the Same time...You/Your card will be like the Old some what physically fit person that thinks they can Hold on and Keep up with the New generation:rolleyes:

Also i went with the i5 because the i7 for Me was just more $$$... as it is Now Gaming is the same i5 or I7 it makes No Diff by the time i Need to upgrade the i5 there will be something New that will better Maximize Gaming than the i7 and thats what we all will run out to get....With Tec advancing sooo rapidly there is No way to really future proof your PC.
:

I can run 60 fps on ultra, just fine. Ultra is Ultra. If we're both running at 60 fps v-synced, what more are pushing, locked at 60? Sure, you might get a few more fps in heavy rain conditions. If those 10-15 frames are worth the lesser CPU, liquid cooling, and less RAM, then great. But how do we really race in the rain?

Like I said before. The tech comes first, then the games follow. It can't work any other way. The 1000 series are new, so the benchmarks are based current games, which weren't designed to utilize the cards to their fullest. As the 900 series phase out in market share, and game devs start to learn the ins and outs of the 1000 series and GPU devs start tweaking drivers, you will start to see more differences, bases on the additional cores and clocks speeds. The 1000 series aren't going to be displaced by the new 1100 series. That's just not how it works. Which is why the 900 series are still alive and kicking, and will be for a while. But when the 1100 series do start to take over, the 1080 will be better able to keep up, because it's current architecture is a precursor to what the 1100 series will be. The only way the 1080 will die quickly is if Nvidia makes a huge leap like they did with the 900 series. The architecture was so advanced, they skipped the 800 series all together. But if that happens, all of the 1000 series will quickly become obsolete. Given the current slow down in chip advancement, though, I'd be surprised if they skipped the 1100 series.

I really don't know why you think the architecture is the same. "Gaming is the same i5 or I7 it makes No Diff". What??? If that's what you think, then it's no wonder we disagree. I'm glad you're happy with it though. I wasn't trying to convince you. My comments were more about sharing information with people planning or thinking about building/buying.

Haiden

02-09-2016, 12:59

Another thing on consoles that is different. We have 4 settings no slider. Not sure about how the lap times compare but it seems easier to get used to tracks like inthebagbud said. I think part of it is the sense of speed is different in ac and seems to slow things down.

i think PCars SETA physics model is more advanced and ready for the future (PCars 2), but SMS couldn't fully utilize it yet, while Kunos maxed out the longer known "tire brush-modell" to their advantage. So they can trust very much on their car physics, knowing that their physics engine delivers very valid raw but authentic torque calculations to the steering axis (which is the FFB you experience). Imho that's why PCars FFB feels more alive and dynamic (and more attractive!) while the cat's FFB feels intuitive out of the box, even that it is kind of simpler!

I tried the new FXX K in AC, and wasn't really impressed. The problem is, the car is very fast and very heavy. For some reason, I'm not able to judge the braking distance required for the car. It's the only car I'm come across so far that like that. But it reminded me of the AC/PCars FFB discussion, and what people were saying about the lack of braking feel on console, and then something clicked. In the PC version of AC, the cars are using different tire models. I believe 10 is the current tire model, which is what the FXX K uses. But I'm pretty sure most of the other cars I've been driving regularly are using earlier tire models. I know quite a few of them are using tire model 7, because it shows you the tire model when the session is loading.

Do you think the cars in the console version are all tire model 10? That might account for some of the PC console differences in FFB.

GrimeyDog

02-09-2016, 13:41

https://youtu.be/cHTDNYYWvJA

Those extra frames are Huge when Running a Full Grid or Rain conditions...

I thought about Liquid Cooling but didnt want to do it because the Guy said that alot of them Break or Leak after a while 2 to 5yrs... The Breaking part ok im fine with Fans Break too... I didnt want to Chance the Liquid Leaking all in the PC and Damaging it... Thats why i didnt do the liquid cooling... Think about it your spending 2k and are gonna get cheap over a extra $60. to to put liquid Cooling in... that dont make sense... I didnt do it because i dont trust it yet... Maybe in My Next PC build... RAM is Cheap $50 or $60 bucks and i could have the extra 16GB RAM today with 5min install time...didnt do that because for the Here and Now the extra 16GB RAM will be of No use... No game to Date Needs that Much RAM:no:

i5 vs i7 all the reviews are pretty Much the same... So it really boils down to what the person building the PC is intending to do...its like buying a Commercial PC for Gaming VS Building 1 specificly for Gaming... They will both Game maybe even at the Same FPS but the Commercial Store bought PC comes with a bunch of Extra programs you end up paying for that most Never use = i7 while the Custom built PC you Maximize the $$$ Buying hardware and only buy programs you intend to use = i5.
but keep i Mind the i5 will do most everthing that the i7 will do the i7 is just better at Multi tasking... But who Games and Makes Spread sheets or Video Editing at the same time anyway on the same PC... Most will game and Have their Lap top right Next to them..I have 2x Pc's same room so multi tasking on the Gaming PC is Not Needed.

I dunno what your talking about Its all the same as far a GAMING is concerned.... the Build is more about what other use the Builder intends to use the PC for...the i5 can keep up with the i7 for the average user... The i7 is for the more advanced user who does alot of Multi tasking with the PC.

Haiden

02-09-2016, 14:15

https://youtu.be/cHTDNYYWvJA

Those extra frames are Huge when Running a Full Grid or Rain conditions...

I thought about Liquid Cooling but didnt want to do it because the Guy said that alot of them Break or Leak after a while 2 to 5yrs... The Breaking part ok im fine with Fans Break too... I didnt want to Chance the Liquid Leaking all in the PC and Damaging it... Thats why i didnt do the liquid cooling... Think about it your spending 2k and are gonna get cheap over a extra $60. to to put liquid Cooling in... that dont make sense... I didnt do it because i dont trust it yet... Maybe in My Next PC build... RAM is Cheap $50 or $60 bucks and i could have the extra 16GB RAM today with 5min install time...didnt do that because for the Here and Now the extra 16GB RAM will be of No use... No game to Date Needs that Much RAM:no:

i5 vs i7 all the reviews are pretty Much the same... So it really boils down to what the person building the PC is intending to do...its like buying a Commercial PC for Gaming VS Building 1 specificly for Gaming... They will both Game maybe even at the Same FPS but the Commercial Store bought PC comes with a bunch of Extra programs you end up paying for that most Never use = i7 while the Custom built PC you Maximize the $$$ Buying hardware and only buy programs you intend to use = i5.
but keep i Mind the i5 will do most everthing that the i7 will do the i7 is just better at Multi tasking... But who Games and Makes Spread sheets or Video Editing at the same time anyway on the same PC... Most will game and Have their Lap top right Next to them..I have 2x Pc's same room so multi tasking on the Gaming PC is Not Needed.

I dunno what your talking about Its all the same as far a GAMING is concerned.... the Build is more about what other use the Builder intends to use the PC for...the i5 can keep up with the i7 for the average user... The i7 is for the more advanced user who does alot of Multi tasking with the PC.

I didn't realize you did so much rain racing.

Just buy a decent liquid cooler.

Anway... good luck with all that. I'm just an IT director that has to plan and budget for my organization every year for the future, what do I know. :confused:

Edit: Also, I watched that video. Like most, it focuses on the CPUs relationship to the GPU. In fact, that's often all a lot of gamers consider, because graphics are the trendy talking point. But we already know that the quality/intuitiveness of the AI in PCars, like many sims, depends on CPU speed. It has nothing to do with the graphics. Graphics are only one aspect of gaming. It just gets the most talk. And, if you're running anything in the background while the game is running.... Guess what? You're multi-tasking. :)

BigDad

02-09-2016, 14:19

HDMI is limited to 4K @60p no matter how you configure it .It isn't a TV limitation It can't physically push more than 60fps that's why you need to use Display ports are for .
Has anyone else got glitchy UI in AC after 1.8.1 ? Every icon in the menu is all glitchy and you can't read it after you click it .

GrimeyDog

02-09-2016, 15:22

I didn't realize you did so much rain racing.

Just buy a decent liquid cooler.

Anway... good luck with all that. I'm just an IT director that has to plan and budget for my organization every year for the future, what do I know. :confused:

Edit: Also, I watched that video. Like most, it focuses on the CPUs relationship to the GPU. In fact, that's often all a lot of gamers consider, because graphics are the trendy talking point. But we already know that the quality/intuitiveness of the AI in PCars, like many sims, depends on CPU speed. It has nothing to do with the graphics. Graphics are only one aspect of gaming. It just gets the most talk. And, if you're running anything in the background while the game is running.... Guess what? You're multi-tasking. :)

Now this I agree on:yes: But at the core of it AI is only as Good as its Programming but yes faster CPU will make the AI the Best it can be according to the quality of programming.... That was 1 of the things that convinced Me to Go PC... When You and Roger Pryne were talking about how Much better the AI was on PC because of More/ Faster processing.... I find this to be Very True...

Doing Career Races you cant help but Race in the Rain... alot!!! Tooo bad you cant cut the Rain off in career... But the Random/Not so Random though because it always rains same time Same Lap... LOL adds a Nice touch of immersion and RL feel to it... It woulda been Great if the Career Rain was truely just Random No Rhyme or Reason.

The i5 handles more than a few windows open while im Racing with No problem... Chat Box, Google Chrome, MSI afterburner and i can maintain 60FPS with a 19 + Me car Grid in Thunderstorm Conditions.

I Did Not Like the Rain Racing on PS4 but on PC i have done alot of it because it Looks soo Good and the Cars Handle Much Better than they did in Rain on PS4... I Did a Full 45 car Grid Rain Race Last Night!!! It was Great!!!

Do you have a Buttkicker??? The Lightning and Thunder During a Rain Race its incredible how you can actually Feel it in the Buttkicker but Not lose touch with the Riad and engine Feel!!! The Buttkicker Feel on PC is Much Much Better than it was with PS4... Im Nit using Sim Vibe i use them Left Channel/ Right Channel and you can clearly feel the diff between Left and Right with PC... PS4 you could tell ledt from right but not nearly as Clear.

Haiden

02-09-2016, 15:28

Do you have a Buttkicker??? The Lightning and Thunder During a Rain Race its incredible how you can actually Feel it in the Buttkicker but Not lose touch with the Riad and engine Feel!!! The Buttkicker Feel on PC is Much Much Better than it was with PS4... Im Nit using Sim Vibe i use them Left Channel/ Right Channel and you can clearly feel the diff between Left and Right with PC... PS4 you could tell ledt from right but not nearly as Clear.

I don't!!!!! Not sure what's going on with that company, but despite the obvious demand, they still haven't replenished the stock. It's impossible to get any of the models through their website. :mad:

I'm going to start looking into other options. They aren't the only ones that make transducers. The BK2 would have just been easy to mount, because my rig has a Bk2 mounting arm.

GrimeyDog

02-09-2016, 15:42

I don't!!!!! Not sure what's going on with that company, but despite the obvious demand, they still haven't replenished the stock. It's impossible to get any of the models through their website. :mad:

I'm going to start looking into other options. They aren't the only ones that make transducers. The BK2 would have just been easy to mount, because my rig has a Bk2 mounting arm.

My advice get 2 to start!!! Use them Left and Right you wont even Car you dont have Sim Vibe!!!

Im also on the Buttkicker Mailing List... Have you igned up for that??? They will Email Me soon as their back in stock... You gotta order quick because they sell out FAST!!!

GrimeyDog

02-09-2016, 15:55

HDMI is limited to 4K @60p no matter how you configure it .It isn't a TV limitation It can't physically push more than 60fps that's why you need to use Display ports are for .
Has anyone else got glitchy UI in AC after 1.8.1 ? Every icon in the menu is all glitchy and you can't read it after you click it .

YES!!! I had that problem Too!!! I spent a few hours wednesday trying to get Rid of it.. Deleting the Game and re installing it wont get rid of it either....You Have to Go to your Steam Files on your HD and Delete the Game from there...Dont delete it from the Steam Menu... then i reset My Whole Game by typing this in the game launch Command " -clean cloud ".... I deleted and re installed AC at least 3 or 4x!!! This was the only way that bought it back to Normal.

Look at the Boxes on the screen they are Bigger thats what causing the Glitching after the reset the Boxes will be back to Normal... also the Color during a race looked Faded and bleached out... do the reset and it comes back to Norm... only thing is you loose your career progress... I think its the UHD settings that did it because the other PC loaded it up just fine on the other TV in 1080p.

-cleancloud

GrimeyDog

02-09-2016, 16:00

BigDad

https://youtu.be/r0qay__egAo

https://youtu.be/_-EbFcxyuMY

Follow these 2 Videos... It worked for Me... But you loose your Game Progerss

spacepadrille

02-09-2016, 18:26

Actually I turned that on tonight and its a world of difference. Just had to turn the ffb up a little to compensate. I'm pretty happy at this point other then the lack of any brake feel until you lock them up. Its not pcars but its pretty good. I will say the ai is pretty good to race with. Now they just need to fix all the issues on consoles.

This is about AC on PS4 - Reading you & Tennenbaum, I first went from 34% to 32% for main FFB (yes Tennenbaum I like it light too ;-). I was running 32 - 20 - 35 - 20 - OFF and was happy.
Now I use 37 - 20 - 40 - 20 - ON and my lap times are faster by 1 sec on Brands Hatch indy like that (BMW M3 & RUF yellowbird) ! My lap times are more faster by 1 sec in PCARS...

Following haiden and tennenbaum, I drive with no assists except stability control at 40%. It's great like that, you can really drive "on the edge", it's fun, but I'm not sure if this is or not a kind of cheating (relatively to the "pure" drive). If I put stability control at zero, the car is like a soap on ice. Is it really like that with real sports cars ?

Haiden

02-09-2016, 19:04

My advice get 2 to start!!! Use them Left and Right you wont even Car you dont have Sim Vibe!!!

Im also on the Buttkicker Mailing List... Have you igned up for that??? They will Email Me soon as their back in stock... You gotta order quick because they sell out FAST!!!

Yeah...I've been on that list for almost a year now. I've signed up multiple times. Nothing. :(

Haiden

02-09-2016, 19:09

HDMI is limited to 4K @60p no matter how you configure it .It isn't a TV limitation It can't physically push more than 60fps that's why you need to use Display ports are for .
Has anyone else got glitchy UI in AC after 1.8.1 ? Every icon in the menu is all glitchy and you can't read it after you click it .

I played last night, but didn't see any problems with the display. The only issue I had was with one of the mod cars I had downloaded an open wheel McLaren. It keeps lose it's engine sounds during the first lap. Then all you hear is the transmission whine, interior, and environment sounds...LOL. That's happens sometimes with mods, though. Updates knock them out of whack.

Haiden

02-09-2016, 20:32

Grimey, Big Dad - Do you guys think you'll try iRacing? Or have you already?

GrimeyDog

02-09-2016, 21:09

I seriously thought about trying it again... But i dont like that you buy all the content and never Own it... thats whats stopping me from joining Iracing again... I had i racing before i was racing on my Now older PC... I still have content there should i decide to renew my membership.. I think im going to stick to Pcars ,Race Room and assetto corsa for a bit... When i get the nest join for 3month coupon i may try it again.. just to test the New PC but i doubt i stick with it... if you dont renew your membership you cant race any tracks or use any content you paid for... i dont like that!!!

rosko

02-09-2016, 21:18

Yes it is specific, but we have the same base and from what we have seen in this thread as well, the values are pretty identical, give or take. So try it if you want.

Copy those 2 files into Documents/Asseto Corsa/cfg

That's definitely better than i had it. There is still a tiny bit of vibration but i only notice because i'm looking for it. Rotation of the wheel is now much improved & more linear & i've noticed cars like the ruf rt 12r is easier to drive. I still feel the road feel is not in the same ball park as pcars, it just doesn't feel as real, but the grip at the front is good I think i will probably bring the FFB down a bit more as its strong sometimes esp on tracks lke the nords with lots of dips & rises.

rosko

02-09-2016, 21:21

Grimey, Big Dad - Do you guys think you'll try iRacing? Or have you already?

I actually gave it a go because its the only other VR title I haven't got. I thought i would just try a month. It was actually quite a surprising experience.

GrimeyDog

02-09-2016, 21:30

I actually gave it a go because its the only other VR title I haven't got. I thought i would just try a month. It was actually quite a surprising experience.

Did you like it???
i know there have been quite a few updates to it since i last tried it... Its the not owning content that i can play off line that keeps me away from it.

morpwr

02-09-2016, 21:31

This is about AC on PS4 - Reading you & Tennenbaum, I first went from 34% to 32% for main FFB (yes Tennenbaum I like it light too ;-). I was running 32 - 20 - 35 - 20 - OFF and was happy.
Now I use 37 - 20 - 40 - 20 - ON and my lap times are faster by 1 sec on Brands Hatch indy like that (BMW M3 & RUF yellowbird) ! My lap times are more faster by 1 sec in PCARS...

Following haiden and tennenbaum, I drive with no assists except stability control at 40%. It's great like that, you can really drive "on the edge", it's fun, but I'm not sure if this is or not a kind of cheating (relatively to the "pure" drive). If I put stability control at zero, the car is like a soap on ice. Is it really like that with real sports cars ?

I was playing around with the ffb last night. Basically trying a higher ffb master but I'm not sure yet. Understeer on is much better for me too. The wheel doesn't get ridiculously heavy mid corner with it on. I came across something about the settings in ac maybe on gtplanet? It said they are numbered backwards. 1 is more higher is less but I'm not sure as I haven't played with those yet. The answer to the last question is no.

morpwr

02-09-2016, 21:43

You know. I realized something today, with regards to AC's braking. On PC, the CSP-v3 rumble motors kick in when braking. And when running Fanaleds, you can control the threshold when that rumble kicks in. I can't remember what I set mine to, but I know it kicks around 95% brake pressure, just before lock. That's probably why the lack of braking feel doesn't bother me.

I know a lot of others are complaing about the complete lack of brake feel. I was correct about what I thought with how the brakes calibrate too at this point which is completely stupid. Basically went 10 years backwards they calibrate as you use them which wont work well when you have a load cell. Everytime it sees a higher value that becomes the new max braking point. Which is how it feels. I do see why guys like it though. In ac you feel more connected to the road. P cars has that odd disconnected feeling which I'm sure is from the tire model and I'm sure will be fixed in pcars 2.

rosko

02-09-2016, 21:53

Did you like it???
i know there have been quite a few updates to it since i last tried it... Its the not owning content that i can play off line that keeps me away from it.

I didn't spend much time with it to be fair so probably should give it another go but basically no. I kind of expected it to be really hard but it was actually really quite easy, not saying thats a bad thing just going on what i had read about it being a more serious simulation. The menus and presentation are awful & dated they can't even animate the drivers arms which just feels odd in VR. The FFb just seems really old, like the break vibration is really over the top like you hit a cattle grid. Its very american biased in terms of the cars & tracks & i'm really not into american cars & ovals so yeah. So yeah i don't get why its so revered & put on such a pedestal.

Haiden

02-09-2016, 22:47

I seriously thought about trying it again... But i dont like that you buy all the content and never Own it... thats whats stopping me from joining Iracing again... I had i racing before i was racing on my Now older PC... I still have content there should i decide to renew my membership.. I think im going to stick to Pcars ,Race Room and assetto corsa for a bit... When i get the nest join for 3month coupon i may try it again.. just to test the New PC but i doubt i stick with it... if you dont renew your membership you cant race any tracks or use any content you paid for... i dont like that!!!

I didn't spend much time with it to be fair so probably should give it another go but basically no. I kind of expected it to be really hard but it was actually really quite easy, not saying thats a bad thing just going on what i had read about it being a more serious simulation. The menus and presentation are awful & dated they can't even animate the drivers arms which just feels odd in VR. The FFb just seems really old, like the break vibration is really over the top like you hit a cattle grid. Its very american biased in terms of the cars & tracks & i'm really not into american cars & ovals so yeah. So yeah i don't get why its so revered & put on such a pedestal.

The content thing is definitely a con, but I think I could live with it, if I really enjoyed the experience. When I watch the gameplay videos online, there's just something about the graphics that seem dated. I supposed that's to be expected, because, for the business model, they need as many people as they can get, and probably don't want to alienate people on older/less capable PCs. But when I look at it, I'm left wondering... Why? It doesn't seem to offer anything more than what I'm getting from PCars, AC, and R3E, except a more structured multiplayer/league experience. Not sure that worth the stale graphics and the extortion like content model.

I'm also not really into ovals and that seems to be all I see going on online. I think they just get more hype, because they market the crap out of it, and get professional drivers to drop their name every change they get. That kind of exposure will make you famous real fast, regardless of the quality of the experience.

I think I'll stick with what I've got right now.

Haiden

02-09-2016, 22:57

I know a lot of others are complaing about the complete lack of brake feel. I was correct about what I thought with how the brakes calibrate too at this point which is completely stupid. Basically went 10 years backwards they calibrate as you use them which wont work well when you have a load cell. Everytime it sees a higher value that becomes the new max braking point. Which is how it feels. I do see why guys like it though. In ac you feel more connected to the road. P cars has that odd disconnected feeling which I'm sure is from the tire model and I'm sure will be fixed in pcars 2.

That's terrible for calibration. PC calibration is pretty much non existent, too. As far as FFB goes, I'm discovering that it's a little hit or miss. There are a lot of good handling cars, but there are quite few that just aren't fun to drive. The Ferrari FXX K was a surprising disappointment.

rosko

03-09-2016, 00:43

I don't mind the FXX K its better to drive than the enzo anyway imo but yeah not really fun. The 488 GTB is the one i really don't get on with in that pack it just has loads of under-steer, even with TC off can't imagine its anything like that irl, i much prefer the 458 handling, the s3 version is just as fast.

tennenbaum

03-09-2016, 08:31

That's terrible for calibration. PC calibration is pretty much non existent, too. As far as FFB goes, I'm discovering that it's a little hit or miss. There are a lot of good handling cars, but there are quite few that just aren't fun to drive. The Ferrari FXX K was a surprising disappointment.

yes, the FFX K drives like a blob. same as the Pagani Hyuaran. strange i often have the feeling especially in the supe hyper cars, that i'm wrapped in foam. i see the top speed but dont feel it. i sit in a merc 190 evo, and the thing feels alive, dynamic and throttle and engine feels connected. i hope for the sake of their owners these supersportscars don't feel so dull in reality... but surprisingly, not a low tec car either the ferrari 458 italia gt2 is bliss: agile, good sense of speed, and the right weight. if i remember right, many of the exotic supercars felt strange to me also in Pcars. i assume devs seldomly have a chance to drive them, so they just paste and copy physics code from what is supposed to be a super car. but im just bubbling, first i should drive an koenigseck or an pagani and then do fresh assumptions. which leads to a question that i still wonder about, is it possible that Pcars phsics is right when giving you such a hard time to control oversteer, with such extreme powered cars (when you switch of traction and stability systems). i start to think, the physics may be realistic, but while you can react quicker with your seat of pants in a real car, you simple can't react quick enough in a video game where you can only react to what you see on screen. my gut feeling tells me though that the connection between throttle input and torque output in PCars lacks a bit in terms of not feeling really 'connected'. in a real car you can feel if the engine is 'loaded' under your foot on the throttle (then you only tip it) or the engine must build up torque first (then you floor the pedal). and that's what i'm missing in PCars, and what i believe to feel at least a little bit in AC. however, i'm happy about any feedback and opinions - especially from the Pagani, FXX and koenigseck drivers...