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Lady Hobbs is correct on legal points for aquarium stores and I do agree that workers could never, on a cost bases, be trained to know enough to guide the average buyer – that would be asking far too much and I agree; however, one issue that I can not agree with is the total failure to simply let people know about cycling. There is no more simple (really) point that all pet stores that carry fish should know this critical - no, essential - fact. It is immoral and deeply unethical for the store not to post clearly on a large sign that all fish must be put into a pre-cycled tank or a fish based cycle must be completed or else they MUST be held accountable for all fish that die when placed into a tank that is not cycled.
Cycling is not common knowledge nor taught in schools or even hinted at pet shops - many books I have read over the years and are currently offered for sale do not say a word on the subject or that there is such a requirement - even online stores say nothing! and that still amazes me - it is almost like it is a secret that only the priestly class or the special forums are allowed to share and anyone not of the club is SOL.

My two cents of rant

Last edited by Cermet; 06-13-2011 at 06:42 PM.

Knowledge is fun(damental)

A 75 gal with eight Discus, fake plants, and a lot of wood also with sand substrate. Clean up crew is down to just two Sterba's Corys. Filters: continuous new water flow; canister w/UV, in-tank algae scrubber!! Finally, junked the nitrate removal unit from hell.

One last thing to add. I bought my 55 gal from walmart so there was nothing to learn from anyone there. As my fish start dying, I went to petsmart and asked a employee what was going on. She told me about new tank syndrome, cycling , and a nice lesson about ammonia and how it burns there gills. Here is the kicker, she gave me a pamphlet (and they had a lot of them) that cover basics to setting up the tank, cycling, and when and how to introduce fish. Really good help. I go back a a couple of weeks later, tell another employee how long my tank has been running (2 weeks) and he was ready to sell me fish where as the previous employee specifically told me not to add anymore fish. It's luck of the draw what type of help you will get and therefor research helps. I do think that employees have an obligation to ask simple questions which will lead to giving out said pamphlet.

I am paraphrasing something I said the last time this came up - SO glad this is a sticky, It should be required reading

You can't sell a product and know zero about it.

There is an entire industry that is fundamentally doing exactly that, Heard of "Advertising"? It's not about knowing the product, It's all about knowing the market.

Originally Posted by Grangers710

There is definitely a degree of acceptable knowledge, but to take all responsibility off of them, I find a bit ridiculous.

I get the point of your message Lady, and I'm not saying you're wrong, but there is a degree here to this claim.

I disagree entirely. If 'completely uninformed person A' buys fish from 'Completely uniformed associate b' And later that fish dies due to improper conditions &/or care. Who is to blame?

A. The person who fulfilled their responsibilities [Uniformed Associate B netted and sold the fish uniformed customer A wanted.]

Or B. The person who went and purchased a living thing without doing any research to insure they could house it properly & that it had fully compatible tankmates.

I certainly have an opinion on which one I think needs a good swift kick in the . .

HAD uninformed customer A been informed about the purchases they were making it would make absolutely no difference what untrue/insane BS anyone slings at them in the LFS because they would already be aware of the facts.

Nothing changes the fact that informed customers are immune any/all of the Crap info being peddled as fact at any LFS.

Btw Grangers An Accountant or a butcher are both positions where one either gets an apprenticeship or attends school for so I have to call false equivalency on those comparisons with the kid netting the fish for 8$ an hour on a tuesday night. . . Just saying.

Gas mileage isn't everythingOIIIIIIIOLack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.Why pretend there are no stupid questions? Actually, There are many stupid questions: "Should I drink this bleach?" Is just one example.
Having said that, Just because it's a stupid question doesn't mean that it shouldn't be asked. It's better to know.A warm beer is better than a cold beer. Because nothing is better than a cold beer, and a warm beer is better than nothing.

Normally I'd defend my position and not be very nice about it, but since you've been so extremely helpful to me, I'll let this argument go. I agree to some extent with everyone's thoughts on the matter. Moral of the story, BE INFORMED BEFORE YOU BUY A FISH.

Agree with everybody? Pick a side! :-P :-D

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Originally Posted by Grangers710

Normally I'd defend my position and not be very nice about it, but since you've been so extremely helpful to me, I'll let this argument go. I agree to some extent with everyone's thoughts on the matter. Moral of the story, BE INFORMED BEFORE YOU BUY A FISH.

Lol, It's only an opinion & apparently ours disagree on this issue [& YVW ] .
Meh, That's fine but . . . We do have to be fairly nice about it [I don't want the "WRATH of MOD" coming down on us]

Totally agree about the moral of the story.

Gas mileage isn't everythingOIIIIIIIOLack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.Why pretend there are no stupid questions? Actually, There are many stupid questions: "Should I drink this bleach?" Is just one example.
Having said that, Just because it's a stupid question doesn't mean that it shouldn't be asked. It's better to know.A warm beer is better than a cold beer. Because nothing is better than a cold beer, and a warm beer is better than nothing.

Currently working at a big box pet store, I see a lot of valid points throughout the thread. I think there are a few good reasons why I tend to stick around and pick up my crappy paycheck every two weeks.

One, I'm being supported, so I am able to work part time and go to school, meaning I don't need much money to get by. Two, the discounts and perks I get working at a pet store helps keep the cost of my major hobbies down. And, three, I just tend to generally enjoy working around most animals.... stupid dwarf hamsters ... Sure, I probably get paid close to what the people across the street at Walmart are making, but here I can at least talk to people about things I enjoy.

Little off topic, but what I'm getting at is, since I do stick around, I try to separate myself from most other employees and I do try to educate everyone as much as possible, especially those just jumping into it. I explain the cycling process as quickly as possible and point them to good sources of information to further their own education.

I think the best advice I give any customer is: "Don't believe anything you hear from a pet store employee, even me. Go home and research everything." The past few times I worked, I even got the pleasure of being able to really help people get their tanks started and/or get them going in the right direction to fix problems others have started for them. I love the customers that just can't seem to stop thanking me, ask for my name, etc; makes me feel like I at least did something good for the day even if some new dip ... we just hired comes in the next day and tells 20 people the wrong way about setting up their tank or what fish to stock. Just the nature of the beast....

Hobbs is right to an extent, It is OUR responsibility to know what the heck we are doing and not rely on an $8/hr associate to hold our hands while stocking and setting up aquariums.

One thing the LFS should be REQUIRED to do is educate their employee's. What makes an LFS any different then a firearm dealer? Not a thing, thats what.

The associates SHOULD have the passion to educate themselves on what they sell, its called product knowledge and it is a retail industry standard.

I worked for an LFS back in high school (94-98) and recently worked for Cabela's. Cabela's paid us to go to this "online university" of products we sold, every course was a raise plus it another step towards being a master outfitter which there are only 4 in that company. You as a human contributing to society SHOULD learn everything you can about what you do. Its only smart business but its also something that you can take with you that no employer can demand you return.
I feel that a well educated employee is an asset to any company.

So in short, Yes hobbs is correct and my .02 as a business owner and a hobbyist.
There is NO excuse for being lazy.

I dont expect alot from my lfs so my first question to the person that is helping me is "do you keep fish? " if they say no its no problem if they say yes I fire a round of simple questions to validate and I usually work with that assistant. And I get on the web and read read read,I ask the forum questions,etc... As a hobbiest it is my responsibility to stay educated about my hobby. just my opinion