Tuesday Snippets: JÅJ and VM talk product

While we’ve been talking a lot about Jan Åke’s retirement, Vladimir’s intent to invest in the company, and how certain members of the Swedish press feels that Victor is the antichrist, we may have lost sight of what really matters– the cars. Consummate professionals that they are, Victor and Jan Åke continue to talk to the responsible members of the press about the business plan. They confirm things we already know, but also leak new details about the ePower lineup, partnerships, and drivetrains. Also I take a stab at playing angel’s advocate to Robert Collin and Co.’s devil’s advocate and speculate on another outcome that isn’t often discussed here– the ramifications of Saab’s success on production and partnerships (something I hope we’ll be able to do a lot more of soon).

As you can also see, I’m incoporating an introductory graphic as a quick visual representation of what’s covered so you can get an idea what you’re in for…

The subscription news service automotiveworld.com recently interviewed Jan Åke Jonsson about Saab’s plans in the near future. As always, subscribers can get more information from the article with membership to their site. Their conversation happened before his announcement to retire, so there isn’t much about his reasons for leaving, though we’ve pretty exhaustively covered that here over the weekend. What they do cover is definitely of interest to many of our readers though.

On distribution:

We are currently operating in 51* countries. There has been a lot of work going on: sales networks, dealerships, putting financing in place and so on. We’re still in a build-up mode – Australia, Canada, Japan and Portugal are some markets where we’ve relaunched in the last six months. In December, we signed a deal with CATC (China Automobile Trading Co) to distribute our cars in China but due to the long homologation processes there we won’t be able to sell any vehicles until the second half of this year. And then we want to look at Brazil. We’ve never really been in Brazil – we had a three-month venture with GM at one point but that was not too successful – so if we go there, it will be a new market. But we need to first focus on expanding our sales in North America and Western Europe.

On a the future of the ePower fleet:

No [we aren’t working on a 9-5 ePower], we’re doing a test fleet with the 9-3 ePower. We’ll start shipping cars in the second quarter. We will let them run for close to a year, do our evaluation and then we’ll see how we would want to move further with that programme. Right now, it’s too early to say what will come after the 9-3 ePower field trials. But I think if you want to sell electric vehicles, the starting point should be regular cars – an existing model.

Would Saab ever change it’s naming nomenclature to more directly compete with Audi?

The 9-3 is a rival for the Audi A4 and it will stay that way, just as the 9-5 competes against cars like the Audi A6. In fact, we did have a discussion about perhaps changing the name of one of our cars but that was maybe calling the 9-5 the 9-6 and in that way declare that this was a step up from the old 9-5. But in the end, we decided to keep the name and we’ll do that for the 9-3 as well.

On continuing to build the current generation 9-3 alongside the new Phoenix platform 9-3:

No, it’s not in our plans to do that. The new 9-3 will be a dramatic difference compared to the existing car and we plan to do a straight cut-off for the changeover.

On the possibility of a diesel 9-4x:

Unfortunately that won’t be the case. We could probably double our sales volume of the 9-4X in Europe with a diesel. But the 9-4X is really a vehicle for markets like the US, Russia, China and Australia where gasoline is the traditional buyer preference.

*Remember the next 9-4x is tentatively planned to be built on the Phoenix platform, and a diesel is more likely then. -Jeff

Will Saab kill the 2.8L V6 in the 9-4x?

No, we will have both engines. GM is going to put a 3.6-litre V6 into the SRX to replace the 2.8-litre turbo V6. We have the option to take that engine too but we haven’t yet decided if we want to do that. So just as we have said previously, we will launch the 9-4X with two V6 engines: a 3.0-litre, and a 2.8-litre turbo.

On working with BMW:

For the new 9-3 [we will use the 1.6L BMW engine]. But for the 9-5, we are very happy with our GM powertrains. Having said that, we have flexibility with our engine strategy so we will see how it works out with the BMW engine in the next 9-3 and we will take it from there. BMW is an easy organisation to work with. I was last with the executives we are dealing with two weeks ago and we speak to each other all the time. For them, it makes sense to sell us engines as it’s a good revenue stream for very little extra investment. And there is also of course the opportunity for engineering exchanges; for example we have expertise in E85 (biofuel) engines which we could offer them.

Not much that we didn’t already know here, but certainly some confirmation of recurring questions we see on the site. It’s curious to hear direct mentions of E85 tech for BMW as an example of something they’re lacking but might leverage from Saab. And it’s nice to hear direct insight from Jan Åke that any future electric vehicle shouldn’t be a one off as BMW seems to be doing with their “i” project, and rather an extension of a real model. What I take from the comment that the 9-5 won’t be getting the ePower treatment anytime soon is that Saab is working especially hard on Phoenix right now, and that until the 9-5 is built on the new modular platform, it won’t be available with an electric drivetrain. That is to say, if they were to find a business case for a 9-3 ePower in the first place and want to extend it to the larger model.

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Meanwhile on autonews, Victor is talking about the 92 again. You’ll remember he’s dialed down his dialogue regarding a new small Saab as it isn’t part of the business plan. But as we have heard rumblings about Vladimir Antonov joining the team with a cash infusion, and behind the scenes rumors that Saab might join WRC not too long after reaching projected profitability, suddenly the 92 is hitting the news wires again.

Saab is continuing its search for a partner to help it build a new entry-level car and the company also wants to build vehicles for other automakers at its factory in Sweden, Chairman Victor Muller said.

“We are talking with other manufacturers to buy a platform or drivetrain technology for this entry-level car,” Muller told Automotive News Europe. “It should come as soon as possible, in 2014 the earliest. ”

Muller said the car would be priced at about 20,000 euros. “It should be a car about the size of an Audi A1, and we could sell 30,000 to 50,000 a year,” Muller said in an interview with ANE earlier this month.

He did not say which other automakers Saab is talking to about a potential partnership.

Also in the article, Victor mentions leveraging the Trollhättan plant to build cars for other manufacturers who might be interested in building on the Phoenix modular platform.

Muller said Saab does not want to ask a bank for credit to fund investments for the new car. “We have a big asset with our plant in Trollhättan. It has a capacity of 190,000 cars. We could act as a contract-manufacturer,” he said.

Meanwhile a blog post by Matthew DeBord on his online column Shifting Gears for CBS bnet.com summed up a lot of the facts that we’ve known for a while, but presented in a way that makes me remember why I was so optimistic about Saab’s future in the first place. He sees Saab in excellent position to settle into the near luxury niche that gives BMW and Audi shoppers a more price conscious alternative without compromise. With Saab’s design heritage making a comeback and finding its way into other makes (read: hatches), and rightsized engine, turbo, and hybrid electric technology, the future doesn’t look so grim.

And then a lightbulb went off in my head which got me thinking even more optimistically, something that hasn’t happened around here in a while. Usually we’re more concerned with worst case scenarios, but what if we took a more balanced and realistic look at production numbers in the next 2-4 years. First, let’s assume the Saab factory won’t be swallowed by the earth in that time period. With new sales agreements in Brazil, China, and Russia, and the possibility that new sales leadership from Matthias Seidl at the top and James Sweeting at SCNA, what happens if sales actually eclipse the 120,000 mark? With a 9-5 sedan and wagon and at least 3 variants of the new 9-3 rolling off the line with hybrid drivetrain options, it’s certainly conceivable. On top of that, if Saab is able to convince a partner to build a low volume model on the Phoenix platform, that 190,000 capacity doesn’t sound too far fetched.

But what if we add in that 92 to the mix with 30,000 sales globally? Mini sold 45,644 units in the US alone last year, in a year when gas prices remained relatively low. If the rumblings we’ve heard turn out to be true, by the time the 92 is ready for production, the Trollhättan plant might be getting cramped. Given that the 92 would need to be built on a partners platform, it’s pretty easy to fathom it wouldn’t be built at Saab’s plant at all.

As a bonus, for all of you hungry for a new photochop, I cooked one up using Tiago’s old chop along with some Phoenix lights, clamshell hood, front air dam, clean rear quarter, and sloping teardrop roof to create a new one. It’s a little rough, but they’re usually like Prozac for us here so I thought we could use one 🙂

Cadillac produced 76,589 units of the SRX last year. The 9-4x is essentially the same vehicle, only it looks less flashy and more premium. Also you’ll see that the Chevy HHR which is slated to be phased out also takes up a huge chunk of production space at the plant. Saab wants to sell only 15,000 of these worldwide, yet Cadillac can somehow produce more than 5 times that with a less attractive product? As we reported here recently, the journalists who got to review it last week in Virginia think it’s a bigger deal than has been let on. If the scenario above holds true and the plant in Trollhättan is getting full, would Saab be interested in building the next generation of 9-4x in Mexico too? So far we’ve heard Saab has every intention of moving the next 9-4x’s production line to Sweden, but given the export penalties and the fact that the 9-4x’s core market is the US, would that even make sense? As Jan Åke said, they’re still looking at the option of using the 3.6L engine in an update to the 9-4x, so I’m hopeful they’re maintaining strong ties on development of the next generation of the 9-4x with GM. The other interesting thing GM is working on with the NG SRX is a plug-in hybrid option, an option that would not only help Saab with CAFE standards, but hedge against declining sales as gas prices rise. While Saab is still transitioning from crawling to walking, it’s always nice to know what running shoes they might be interested in wearing. 😉

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Finally, a late addition to snippets. Andreas J. has come up with a rather creative license plate holder that might boost our site traffic 🙂 It looks great.

If the Trollhättan plant should actually reach its limit – nice to see some wild speculation in the positive direction for a change! – then maybe Saab could buy into the Volvo/Pininfarina plant in Uddevalla, just 30 kms away? That’s where Volvo makes the C70, and they are apparently in the process of buying Pininfarina’s share of the plant, making it fully Volvo-owned.

Personally, I would rather see them returning to Valmet and perhaps strenghtening the newly-acquired Dutch leg of their heritage by helping out Mitsu use up their production capacities @ NedCar.

If ever needed, I would also consider expanding manufacturing in other continents, closer to target markets. Wilmington seems like a perfect place for Saab NA assembly. The coincidence of both Wilmington and Valmet being slated to build Fisker products presents an interesting opportunity… 😉

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6 years 5 months ago

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ivo 71

Valmet have just lost their Porsche assembly business (Boxster/Cayman):

The NedCar assembly plant at Born in the Netherlands is a very up-to-date facility, perhaps not quite on a par with the THN plant but close. Interesting prices could be negotiated there as there is no new business to be found anywhere and desperation rules.

Ivo

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6 years 5 months ago

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GerritN

In how far is NedCar supported by the Dutch government? I always have the feeling that the Dutch government is very unfriendly towards a domestic car industry. Then there is also the hostility towards Victor Muller in The Netherlands to reckon with. Talking to him last Fall I felt that he had turned his back on The Netherlands completely.

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6 years 5 months ago

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ivo 71

No support at all for Nedcar, they will have to either find other contract partners or croak. And, yes, there are quite a few Dutch who think that VM tends to skate too close to the edge and sometimes past it. His exemplary record for turning around ailing companies rarely gets mentioned, his/Spyker’s conflicts with the tax authorities -the most siginificant of which he actually won- on the other hand have become an urban legend here. His, let us say, personal flamboyance doesn’t help either. It is not all that unlike Sweden, really. You remember the Dutch saying: ‘doe maar… Read more »

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6 years 5 months ago

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ivo 71

Scratch the word ‘just’ from above posting (first line). Fact remains that no sufficient new business has come up yet to fill up all the vacant capacity created by Porsche going elsewhere.

Ivo

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6 years 5 months ago

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GerritN

I second the proposal for the Valmet plant. They have exactly the capacity needed and have always delivered top-notch vehicles (Viggen, Boxster).

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6 years 5 months ago

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Pat H

To those still caught up in the recent dramas, just remember the 9-4x will be arriving soon, and there’s bound to be a lot of attention on it to keep your mind on things 😀

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6 years 5 months ago

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Harry

During the Geneva Festival, there was an article in the Financial Times Deutschland also indicating that VM is offering cooperations and the capacities of the plant rather tant cash to potential partners.

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6 years 5 months ago

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martinsaab

My understanding is that Saab thinks about sharing production capacity in Trollhättan to other car makes. The prod. limit is said to be 190.000 units and Saab alone will not reach this number…

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6 years 5 months ago

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Harry

Has anybody got any information about Subarus being adapted for the European market in Trollhättan? There was once a (wrong) story about them being build there. But as it seems there is some link.

I believe it was simply conversion of Subarus to use CNG at a Trollhattan factory, not in the Saab plant. Any future cars going into production at the Saab factory will probably be new cars on the new Phoenix platform, as RedJ has said.

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6 years 5 months ago

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CHICAGO SWEDE

Wow! How nice to hear someone actually THINK before they start typing! My only comments would be that the lovely photo would make a better SONNETT than a 92 in my humble opinion. Let’s not forget that one of the reasons the Mini is successful is because it is also so practical for its size. It is really a phone both on wheels and has an amazing amount of room in such a small package. Of course it drives well and appears to be quite well made. People are buying small and cool vehicles, but it still has to make… Read more »

Just for you, I added some junk in the trunk. It needs more character lines back there and some editing, but just to give you a rough proportionate idea, there you go. I imagine it having a split rear glass window for rear visibility, part on the rear hatch.

Aren’t you glad you didn’t end up in an Audi A3? Just think how happy you’ll be in your new 9-3 next year.

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6 years 5 months ago

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CHICAGO SWEDE

Thanks Jeff! Great photo re-mix!

Dear VM,

Please make the next 9-3 look like the grandson of the 900 Turbo SPG in both design and spirit. I would venture to say that I am not alone here in wishing for that…..

Thank you!

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6 years 5 months ago

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GerritN

I like the ‘junk-in-the-trunk’ 9-2 (I still think we should keep the dashes). It’s not so sleek as the slanted roof one, but way more practical. Maybe the sliding roof of the 9-X should be revived?

Btw, Jeff, great writing, I think you have found your calling. Swade’s house in Tasmania will become available soon, maybe you consider a move to Taz and acquiring a funny accent?

It’s going to be a pretty ridiculous experience as it is for me to report with Swade from the floor of the NY Auto Show. Everyone needs to mark their calendars for the live press conference at 10:30AM EST on Thurs. April 21st. There will be a front page U-Stream webcast, tons more pictures, interviews, and all around Saab goodness. It’s all too fun. I’m sure you’re coming down that week to see the PhoeniX, right?

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6 years 5 months ago

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J Fan

That’s a great point about the Cadillac/9-4X numbers. Introducing the Saab “Silver Bullet” 9-4X. Has a bit of a ring to it!

Just wondered, do we know how much Saab is paying for the BMW engines?

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6 years 5 months ago

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J Fan

Anyone..?

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6 years 5 months ago

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GerritN

Less than 20,000 Euro if they are planning to use it in the 9-2.

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6 years 5 months ago

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GerritN

I’m willing to make a guess. A crate engine will run you about $4000, buying in bulk will be $2000 to $3000 per engine.

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6 years 5 months ago

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Jeff

I feel like that’s inside info, I don’t think that will be released anytime soon. Relative to what it would have cost to build their own engine, it’s certainly less. I have this itching feeling that Saab signed the deal with BMW as a way to get their foot in the door to leverage other tech…*cough* small car platform.

I do agree with you, that the engine deal was more of an door opener than anything else, but I’m still not convinced about the platform thing. But on the other side, maybe in 2 years time the i3 could be made in Sweden. 😉

Ha, a RWD electric compact BMW made almost entirely out of aluminum being built in Trollhattan? Naww. Maybe somewhere else in Sweden though. 😉

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6 years 5 months ago

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J Fan

I think it’s time for SU to find a friend in Bavaria 😉

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6 years 5 months ago

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Markac

It will be interesting to see what other engines will be available for the 9-3’s replacement. That BMW 1.6 makes a nice engine for the base model, but the performance models still need a 1.8t or 2.0t. Let’s face it, a Mini with the same 1.6 would just eat the Saab for breakfast.

I would not be so sure about that.. Think about the power-supply from the electric rear-axle and also what Saab can do, regarding tuning etc. ….

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6 years 5 months ago

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RS

1.6, 2.0 and 3.6 sound logical to me 😉

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charlie

I have the same concerns, but… The MINI is no spring chicken…2800 pounds? I know the countryman is 3000 pounds. Between the 1.6 engine and JC comments about “thinner seats” they are looking at some serious weight reduction. Would I sacrifice HP for weight — yes. Can you bring a SAAB 9-3 in at around 3000 pounds? Can they save weight by only having only engine choice? More about the transmission than the engine, probably. The rear axle would require a pretty weighty battery. The key there is tuning it so it works well in the city as well. The… Read more »

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6 years 5 months ago

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Markac

Weight saving and greatly improved space efficiency is what Saab had planned back when Delta II was on the table. Hopefully those ideas can be incorporated into Phoenix?

The Saab will definitely need a twin clutch DSG type transmission and hopefully a pure manual gearbox option as well on performance models. Perhaps BMW or VW can supply a DSG transmission? I don’t think GM would have anything remotely suitable.

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6 years 5 months ago

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Peter, Sweden

Isn’t Saab making its own DSG transmission? I’m pretty sure I’ve read something about that here on SU some time ago… And if not, wouldn’t ZF be a logic partner regarding transmission?

——- Btw my old 9000 Turbo used to eat VW Golf GTIs for breakfast, so I would be very surprised if the same wouldn’t go for NG9-3 vs Mini as well.

Saab spun its transmission engineers off into their own separate company, VICURA. They’re working on any number of new transmissions, we’ll see what comes of it with once the 9-3 details begin to emerge.

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6 years 5 months ago

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charlie

I really don’t see the need for a DSG.

Not a fan on automatics, would love to see have the balls to offer a manual-only line in the US, but it seems as if the automatics are doing a pretty good job.

Hmz, if supercars adopt DSG, then why not other cars? I see this happen within a couple of years.

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6 years 5 months ago

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Nils

“Thinner seats”, oh horror! Please bring back the seats of the OG 9-5 and OG 9-3! Class leading seats is a Saab tradition and not a place to compromise.

Weight saving yes! Seat saving, no!

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6 years 5 months ago

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Joachim Delfortrie

Agree. Some vital class leading items that make a Saab should be saved. Why fix something that isn´t broken.

@Jeff, the photochop was cool but still prefer the other one you did (the rear especially). 😉

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6 years 5 months ago

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bk-aero

Thin doesn’t necessarily mean uncomfortable. I can’t see anything wrong in the use of materials that adapt themselves to the form of your body and a slim seat that gives rear seat passengers more space. I am sure that we can rather expect a Saab with the ignition above the left rear passengers head than one with uncomfortable seats. 😉

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6 years 5 months ago

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Doctor Donk

9000 Aero seats please.

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6 years 5 months ago

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Kikaluka

Lufthansa just put new very thin seats in their european planes. And they sit pretty well. A lot the be learned from them I guess. Thin (and light!) is the way to go as long as it doesn’t result in less comfort.

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6 years 5 months ago

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Aaron

Ugh, a 1.6L only decision would absolutely put me in the buy a used TurboX camp immediately. Even the 2.0T would be meh-inspiring. 5th gen Haldex is still more interesting to me than the option of up to ~70 horses on the rear wheels. Watching the e-AAM videos shows the car capable of difficult terrain situations (the steep hills) but also handling them sluggishly as it relies heavily on the limited power from the rear wheels. At least, that’s the impression I get when watching them. I wish they would compare their system to the Haldex XWD system instead of… Read more »

I think you’ll be amazed by the flexibility, capability, and options you have with the next 9-3. From what little we’ve heard from the e-AAM team, it’s going to be impressive.

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6 years 5 months ago

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Aaron

I’d just like to see something more concrete than small rumblings of information. Actual test comparisons between the existing XWD system and the eXWD system as well as performance information on expected engines. I know it’s not 2012 yet but impartial information would be nice. I want another Saab, but I’m looking for a handling -and- performance improvement over my FWD Aero, the existing XWD system gives both, I just want to see how it compares to the eXWD.

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6 years 5 months ago

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GerritN

Weight is the key factor here, not horse power. For the US market you want to have something that does 0-60mph in the 7 second range. Whether you arrive at that by just dumping a huge engine in a lead brick or by carefully tuning the weight of the car and using a refined engine, doesn’t matter much. Although all wheel drive is great in snow and ice conditions it does add a lot of weight and isn’t necessary for 80% of the time. The e-AAM seems to be a nice compromise and a way to evolve to more fully… Read more »

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6 years 5 months ago

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charlie

Agreed, but saab putting a heavy emphasis on e-aam and city driving could pay out.

It is an open space. Only hybrid competitor is the Lexus hatchback, based on a prius.

(more looking at US market)

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6 years 5 months ago

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Aaron

Except comparing the vehicle to the Turbo X sedan or sportcombi/’08.5/09 Aero V6s demands a car that does 0-60 in under 6 seconds (manual, MotorTrend has it at 5.5-5.7s for the TX). My understanding is that gen 4 Haldex was lighter than previous implementations, and comparing it with an electric motor and battery pack was a bit of a wash.

I still want to see a fair comparison between the existing XWD system and e-AAM’s eXWD.

Buy that Turbo X Mate! You’ll be waiting 2 years before NG 9-3…The existing Haldex instance is a fine one. Can always trade in (up?) later. Tune it immediately [ Maptun or VTune- simple, via steering wheel port; BSR another option; Hirsch if you’re a European…through dealer] and you’ll have the best that Saab has to offer right now and for some time to come . Go further down the mod route as several regulars here have done, including myself (Kanundrum’s is a good example: Vtuner + custom downpipe, etc. ; Jorgen T has Hirsched his TX Combi + Ferrita).… Read more »

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6 years 5 months ago

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TurboLover

Swade Quality (highest possible) on these set of snippets Jeff!

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6 years 5 months ago

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Peter, Sweden

Agree. Perfect coffee break-reading! 😀

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6 years 5 months ago

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JH

I also have to agree here! 😀

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6 years 5 months ago

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baas900i

9-4x and Australia and Diesel, i live in an area with lots of large school run suv’s [x5 and the like] and the majority are diesel,

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6 years 5 months ago

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Markac

baas900i I agree, and unless the 9-4x is sold in the UK (the biggest right hand drive market), I can’t see it arriving downunder. Making (at best) a couple of hundred RHD cars per year just for Oz wouldn’t make economic sense. If you want a 9-4x in Australia, you’d better hope the Brits like the petrol car or you’ll be waiting for the next generation I’d guess.

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6 years 5 months ago

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Swade

The 9-4x is scheduled to come to Oz in 2012.

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6 years 5 months ago

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Markac

When does it hit the UK?

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6 years 5 months ago

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Erik

In Norway i saw today in the newspaper “Aftenposten” that SAAB has announced that they now offer 5 Years warranty

Erik

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6 years 5 months ago

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RS

Yes, your right. Customer confidence just took a huge leaped forward. The Independent Saab is clearly listing. Other countries should follow this example.

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6 years 5 months ago

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bk-aero

This is EXCELLENT news! Giving 5 years of warranty is a sign to customers showing that Saab is confident that their cars are reliable. 80.000 cars… we’re coming!

Nice photo-chops! I think the rear end of the top 2 look like the Sonett. Nice touch!

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6 years 5 months ago

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Curvin O'Rielly

Thin seats don’t have to be uncomfortable seats. For example, have you ever slept on a Tempur-Pedic mattress or used a Tempur-Pedic pillow? They’re great. And they have Scandinavian roots. Here’s something from Tempur-Pedic’s website: “If there’s one thing that people know about us, it’s that we’re somehow connected with both NASA and Sweden. How is that possible? “In the early 1970s, NASA developed a pressure-absorbing material to help cushion and support astronauts during lift-off. The material was temperature-sensitive and it evenly distributed body weight. NASA released this material to the public in the 1980s. “Another set of scientists, at… Read more »

I have to admit, being able to use the name Tempurpedic would be a fantastic sales tool (though I wouldn’t want people thinking they might fall asleep in a Saab :P).

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6 years 5 months ago

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GerritN

Whenever I hear Tempurpedic, Bob’s Stores comes to mind……

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6 years 5 months ago

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Tomas TL1000R

I have thought about Tempur in seats to but since Tempur form itself because of body heat I don´t know whats happen when you put heat cables inside the Tempur. And another thing, Tempur is absolutly stiff in low temperature. So the good material (like it is) have some problems during winter conditions. I´m going to contact Tempur on this, just for fun. Cos I´m in the “bed business” so to speak. But there is alot of viscous elastic materials out there similar to Tempur that perhaps is much better than the original.

Yep I see it now. The last time something like this happened it turned out to be nothing, so until we have a name and understand what exactly the situation is, it’s not really worth commenting on. In the meantime, the captain has turned on the fasten seatbelts sign, and asks that you please refrain from wild negative speculation until there is something to actually comment on. It might even be some of the impact from the Japanese supplier problems, but until we know for sure and have official comment from Saab, this isn’t a story worth beating into the… Read more »

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6 years 5 months ago

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Börjesson

Whether the Saab factory stood still or not should be very easily verifiable, as there are thousands of witnesses. That subcontractors have not been paid, and are “not amused”, is not speculation but fact, as it is the high honcho of the supplier group who says so himself. The last piece of the puzzle is if it was indeed non-deliveries from disgruntled subcontractors that caused the factory to stand still. It could hypothetically be because of non-deliveries from Japan, or for some other unknown reason, and unrelated to the unpaid supplier issue except in the mind of a bored journalist.… Read more »

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6 years 5 months ago

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Kalle

According to my sources the factory stood still today due to problems/forgot paying the bills.

Once we have full information and details, we’ll make a new post and talk about it. But for now it just seems like the same recycled two bits of information from the union and tv4.

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6 years 5 months ago

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Börjesson

This sort of crap, to put it bluntly, does more damage to Saab than all the malicious journalists in the land. Have they actually run out of cash, or are they just incompetent? Either way, it is disastrous for Saab. By their own (in)action, they are showing that the spiteful hecklers and the doom-and-gloom predictors are right. The Saab factory stood still Several of Saab’s automotive suppliers have not been paid. This is confirmed by Svenåke Berglie, president of the automotive components group. “It is deplorable that it should have to go this far, he told TV 4 News West.… Read more »

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6 years 5 months ago

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Jörgen Trued - SUHRT

Keep calm and carry on? Where is the ship steering. An information director who does not inform when asked questions. It is a company not a police investigation? “The truth shall set You free!” — Bad timing indeed: – ovloV scouting for 1000 engineers, I bet the look upstreams towards Trollhättan

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6 years 5 months ago

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Swade

The role of an info director isn’t to answer every question he’s given, (in this situation) it’s to answer the questions he can answer in a manner that respects the nature of agreements between the company and the suppliers.

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6 years 5 months ago

Guest

Paul

Sorry off-topic,

the Phoenix looks incredible at this photoshoot from different angles:

Regarding the recent news: according to a source in Swedish newspaper DI:s comments field, the supplier that hasn’t delivered parts is in fact GM. They apparently raised the price of certain parts, which was not a part of their deal, and thus Saab correctly refuses to pay the new, higher price. So, since I see it highly unlikely that GM will force the Trollhättan plant to shut down – nothing to worry about. Keep calm and carry on 🙂 While I would caution against trusting comments on articles on other sites, *especially di.se* I agree everyone needs to stay calm… Read more »

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6 years 5 months ago

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Alex L

I also spoke to my dad who works at the factory. He said that he didn’t even notice a stop today and since he works in the assembly, he’d be one of the first to know. We clearly need some more information from mr. Geers as this is quite confusing…

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6 years 5 months ago

Guest

Börjesson

Several sources stated that the stop in the factory was due to at least one subcontractor halting its deliveries to Saab. But the company chooses to remain silent both about any payment problems and shutdowns. “We have 8 000 subcontractors, and I can’t comment on our relations,” says information manager Eric Geers. “But with so many suppliers, it isn’t strange that there can be stops.” But Håkan Skött, chairman of IF Metall (union) at the factory, confirms that production was stopped because of problems with material deliveries. “How long the stop lasted, I don’t know. But there was a stop.”… Read more »

I don’t think it is strange that he needed some time to provide an answer.

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6 years 5 months ago

Guest

Börjesson

“We have 8 000 subcontractors, and I can’t comment on our relations,” says information manager Eric Geers. “But with so many suppliers, it isn’t strange that there can be stops.”

You call that a comment? Sounds more like a “I don’t have a clue what’s going on, and I don’t want to talk to you. Go away.”

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6 years 5 months ago

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JH

At least it is an answer, but not that informative indeed. We just have to wait and see, this is not ragnarök.

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6 years 5 months ago

Guest

rodmylon

The answer provided by Geers is perhaps true but probably not good enough. This news will be on every web page and every newspaper in Sweden this evening and tomorrow (perhaps even spreading on-line around the world). Sad that he can’t comment on particularities like if GM’s raised prices were the real reason. Today Volvo announced that they’ll hire 900 new engineers + 300 other workers. With all the uncertainties in Trollhättan I’m afraid that some workers there start looking at the offering down river, like Jörgen Trued said (it was my first reaction when I read the Volvo news… Read more »

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6 years 5 months ago

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Jeff

I’m afraid that even if Swade were to take on the entire Swedish press mafia by himself they would still find a way to slander Saab. Judging by the rabid commenters on di.se, they don’t really care what the news is, they’ll find a way to make it about how Saab is stealing money right from their pockets (even though the loan is backed up by Saab’s assets). It just reinforces the importance of posts like this one. Scandal sells– slow growth, not so much.

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6 years 5 months ago

Guest

Börjesson

Much could be said about the Swedish press and its negative Saab bias, but to blame the press in this case is absurd. Production actually stopped at the factory today! That’s a very big deal. In money terms, assuming they could have sold the cars not produced today… maybe SEK 50 million or so, if the stop was for the full day? If the non-payment to the suppliers was because of an administrative error, that’s a major cockup, and well worth some reporting by the media. If the non-payment is because there simply isn’t any money to pay the suppliers… Read more »

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6 years 5 months ago

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Jeff

There’s a huge difference in reporting a story at 8pm (20:00), well beyond the end of the business day, when answers aren’t readily available, and waiting for details to shake out and then proceeding with a balanced news piece overnight. I understand that they’re trying to get the whole story, and they feel obligated to report the news, but rather than speculate that Saab is out of money or that they haven’t paid suppliers for months, you’d think they might want to get to the bottom of it first.

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6 years 5 months ago

Guest

Börjesson

As I’ve already said, that Saab hasn’t paid suppliers is not speculation but fact. The head honcho of the suppliers group said so himself.

It looks really bad too. I wonder if this is the case that was mentioned in comments at di.se (someone said that last payment was in December, and current payment is one month behind. so they stopped “deliveries”).

I really hope Saab clears everything up to morrow. I’ve always stood up for Saab because I’ve believed that they’ve been falsely accused and badmouthed, but I’ve also expected them to be honest and do the right thing. These amounting cases starts to grow disbelief even in me soon =/

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6 years 5 months ago

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rodmylon

I fully agree if that is the case! But IF the the case is that some suppliers have broken the contracts (charging more than agreed) and Saab refuses to pay because of that, then Saab is hurt unjustifiably! And THIS is the problem I have with the Swedish press: they don’t DIG DEEPER than skin-level if they get some bad news. But if the news is good, they DO dig deeper until they find some hidden “black particle” and magnify it! Why can’t the dig deeper, search and analyze: “WHY haven’t Saab payed some subcontractor?!”. They just jump aboard the… Read more »

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6 years 5 months ago

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Börjesson

Well, the news business today is all about being first with the latest. There will in all likelyhood be more balanced and better researched stories in tomorrow’s print editions, but that doesn’t mean that they won’t publish brief snippets now, or even that they shouldn’t do so.

I partly agree about the new CEO. He really has to be solid and reassuring. Victor has enough enthusiasm and charm for the both of them, so that is less vital.

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6 years 5 months ago

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milan2345

big media in austria (the most important newspapers) are reporting that the factory stands (not stood!!) still. Bad news, really bad news- people reading the newspapers think that saab does not produce any cars anymore!

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6 years 5 months ago

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SAAB_andee

typically – only bad news are good news in austria.

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6 years 5 months ago

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SAAB_andee

for example the standard (newspaper in austria) they never had articles,testdrives or news from saab the whole year . even they ignored the phoenix in geneva. so it´s no wonder that they submit only bad news

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6 years 5 months ago

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rodmylon

Major Finnish business-site reports it now too! =(

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6 years 5 months ago

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Jörgen Trued - SUHRT

I have had the possibility to read the “Cirkus Muller” book. It is really interesting reading it is primarily based on interviews with the following people Bo Andersson, Vladimir Antonov, Peter Brown, Maarten de Bruijn, Joop Donkervoort, Ferdinand Dudenhöffer, Peter van Egmond, Jöran Hägglund, Lennart Iredahl, Jan-Åke Jonsson, Christian von Koenigsegg, Victor Muller, Maud Olofsson, Chris Preuss. Hans van Rennes, Jan Maarten Slagter, David Tomic, Jörgen Trued and Ed Whitacre Jens has also interviewed 8 persons, who all of them has agreed only to speak if granted anonymity. These persons are people who has worked or is working near Victor… Read more »

sorry Jörgen, but this really reads like SOAP-OPERA, maybe good stuff for bored house-wifes or house-men…. an alternative to “bold and beautiful” … the title speaks for itself, congrats to the author – should go to hollywood as a script-writer…. 😉

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6 years 5 months ago

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Jörgen Trued - SUHRT

Saabonaut, Do Yourself a favor read it first come with constructive critique after… OK

Considering Saab’s situation the management needs to act very fast here. Saab needs stability and stories like this just cannot happen if consumer confidence is to be restored. Geer’s comments are not enough and a proper press release is needed. Saab is under higher scrutiny than most and cannot afford stories like this. Regardless of the reason it is very bad PR for Saab and a proper response is needed now.

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6 years 5 months ago

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Alex

I am in 100% agreement with Matthew Debord, there is a market for a lower cost premium european alternative to Audi and BMW. Mini has tried to cover this market but there is a large gap between a Mini and a BMW due to design and vehicle size but the idea of low cost, fun to drive, stylish european cars is a proven winner. VW has also found a lot of success in this area and has been able to move a lot of product here in the US despite their terrible reliability reputation.

And since VW seems to be aiming themselves at Toyota now, it really gives Saab a nice place to aim themselves. Sporty, European, safe, economical, and stylish at a competitive price. Like you say, there’s a lot of room between Mini and BMW, and Mini themselves seem to be trying to remedy this with the new Countryman, though most journalists think it completely dilutes the brand’s philosophy.

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6 years 5 months ago

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Alex

Exactly Jeff, BMW is realizing the limitations of the Mini brand, although very strong, that strength is also their limitation and they know it. They are trying to pump the brand full of new products to fill the gap but that cute cartoony look is inevitably going to wear thin on those who want a more mature design or a larger car for their expanding lifestyle or family. They are even discussing making the new 1 series FWD to fill the gap but then that dilutes BMW. Audi sees it to and is coming to market with the A3 sedan… Read more »

One of the posts I’ll be doing between now and the NY Auto Show is a focus on the unexploited gaps in the luxury segment. Also I’d like to focus on what markets have the most obvious growth potential for Saab if given a proper local ad blitz– Boston (NE)/NYC/Philly/DC, Upstate NY/Ohio, SF, Seattle, etc. I think Saab needs to target sales just like its targeting partnerships. Basically, get it right in a few key markets and then expand the strategy.

Börjesson is right in that its a significant story will a level of public interest that warrants publication. Jeff is also right that the story has broken late in the day when proper answers might not be available. Fuller reporting will hopefully come tomorrow.

Some aspects of this will most likely be commercial and held in confidence between Saab and whoever the supplier is. Particularly if it’s GM. The Keep Calm and Carry On advice is warranted. I’m pretty sure they’ll be going full-on to resolve whatever the issue is.

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6 years 5 months ago

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JohanG

And now Aftonbladet have it on there frontpage! How easy would it to sell a SAAB car after this? I think this is the begining of the end!

Be careful Johan, I just read in di.se that the sky was scheduled to fall directly over Stockholm later tonight. Something about the supermoon? It really is the beginning of the end.

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6 years 5 months ago

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Henrik S

It is not easy to stay calm when there are news like these. I sure hope that we will have some explenation from SAAB tomorrow.

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6 years 5 months ago

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JohanG

Jeff, Now you are really stupid! If several reports saying that SAAB cant pay its the begining of the end! Next step is that one of the subcontractors go to court and there they can put SAAB in bankrupcy! Its not far away! 🙁

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6 years 5 months ago

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Jeff

Seriously, calm down Johan 🙂 You’re a pretty reasonable guy, I know. I’m just trying to lighten the mood in here. Here’s something that might cheer you up: According to the AP: “STOCKHOLM (AP) – A Swedish trade association says car maker Saab Automobile has failed to pay several suppliers. FKG association CEO Svenake Berglie says at least five car part suppliers have not received payments from Saab since Friday that could “easily add up to millions” of Swedish kronor (hundreds of thousands of dollars). Saab spokesman Thomas Schulz said he did not know about the claims and dismissed rumors… Read more »

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6 years 5 months ago

Guest

theSandySaab

Hopefully, “only” a result of the reduced production of certain components in Japan. Quite a number of car manufacturers have had to reduce pace or even close some assembly lines. Especially due to a severe shortage of air flow sensors in combination with Just-in-Time production. _______________ “This week, in a modern “for lack of a nail” story, General Motors Co. was forced to shut a plant in Louisiana, and Peugeot-Citroen had to cut back production at most of its European plants.”

Late October last year, Frankfurt to Toronto: Happened to sit beside a German fella who worked for Magna (Canadian world-wide supplier of parts, including subsidiaries that ‘fed’ Saab). As one would expect the conversation turned to automobiles…we carved out our positions (Saab vs. Audi) politely, and he remarked that his suppliers were pissed off at getting cents on the dollar during the bankruptcy proceedings (why the 9-5 missed out on the correct dash covering, why those first batch of 9-5s didn’t get Sunroofs, etc.) and I remarked…That was the Old Saab under the Yoke of Mordor [GM] and that those… Read more »

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6 years 5 months ago

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Barbapappa

Well said. However, there is always a possibility that these are all due to random events. I hope the bottom is reached, researched and reported by tomorrow.

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6 years 5 months ago

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JohanG

Rodmylon, I agree with you!!

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6 years 5 months ago

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saabista63

Maybe there are two different stories that are colliding and feeding some kind of speculation. Thread 1 is concerning the unpaid Lowe Brindfors bills. This is an issue that has to be dealt with, but it does not concern the halting of the production line. Thread 2 is concerning the production that was halted because SAAB has run out of some parts. We do not know yet, if these parts are missing in the aftermath of the quake in Japan or if delivery has been stopped because of other reasons. Possibly, the press has made a story from both threads… Read more »

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6 years 5 months ago

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saabonaut

The same scheme could be observed on JAJ’s retirement – the press instantly cross-linked it with last year saab-sales and VA’s activities…. painting great-selling stories…. 😐

Can’t believe he said that, even if it were true. No company boss would ever admit that, it would be instant corporate suicide.

Ivo

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6 years 5 months ago

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Lars S

Don’t even think of giving up now. During the sale process we all went through hell and here we are today, still discussing Saab, a running business. What has happened today is a problem that probably can’t be solved just by ignoring it, but still, Saab has solved so many problems over the years that I estimate the chances of getting this right as good. Save your doomsday prophecies until Saab has been given a proper chance to explain what is going on.

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6 years 5 months ago

Guest

Cokeisit

Sorry, I can’t stay calm. I’m about to order a 9-5 Wagon when it’s possible to place an order in late April but a turbulent day like this makes me wonder if it ever will be delivered. The main problem with the bad publicity this time is NOT the Swedish media but Saab itself or at least their media department. Eric Geers can’t tell the journalists “no comments”, Saab can’t afford the bad publicity that follows on such arrogant behavior. Especially now when JAJ announced his resignation just a few days ago It’s time for Eric and his department to… Read more »

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6 years 5 months ago

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Jörgen Trued - SUHRT

Coke, You are so right, SUHRT are in the same situation to place an order on two 9-5´s. I do not feel comfortable at all. I contacted Vladimir asking him to step in and lay the cards right. It is much frustration around so maybe it is better to let the pressure out once for all. I do not take the Keep Calm….. anymore. A company has to pay the bills in time that is the the way the whole system operates. NTP experiences hands on says it all, people, customers, the general public, supplier, contractors finally comes to the… Read more »

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6 years 5 months ago

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Ken H

A company has to pay the bills in time that is the the way the whole system operates.

The reality is that overdue payments are more the norm than exception. Every day you hold on to the money makes a difference. It can be more painful for some than for others, of course.

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6 years 5 months ago

Guest

Romac

Maybe, as part of the anniversary celebrations, they stop the production line one day a year to remind us all how bad it got. 😉

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6 years 5 months ago

Guest

Alexandros

This one from a Belgian news site: http://knack.rnews.be/nl/actualiteit/belga-algemeen/productiestop-saab-voorval-dat-door-media-uitvergroot-wordt/article-1194981239547.htm# Saab Stop Production “event that is magnified by media ‘ Tuesday, March 29, 2011 at 10:01 p.m. (Reuters) Production Stop by the Swedish carmaker Saab which television channel TV4 reported Tuesday, to “an incident by Swedish media is considerably magnified. “That leaves Saab spokesman Eric Geers Tuesday said in a response to Belga. “Every car manufacturer, the belt is like a brief halt. Of a mosquito here is an elephant made, “said Geers, who according “nothing wrong”and the next day just go cars produced. “Saab in Sweden simply a hyper sensitive subject,… Read more »

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6 years 5 months ago

Guest

Muppen

Well it´s not only suppliers who are not being paid. There advertising firm hasn´t been paid since december 2010 🙁

Those aren’t “rumors”, those are news. You can’t blame the media for reporting those, that’s the way mass media operate. The way the event is reported is generally fair and balanced, and there is no obligation on the media to report news in a way and at a time that suits corporate PR the best.

I am pretty sure there is an issue. There was enough room for unfounded rumors to have surfaced and be reported all the way. And Saab’s PR is extremely swift, if Saab was ready to rebutt, they would have.

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6 years 5 months ago

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J Fan

Because they are a business. Tonight, people are reading their website, giving them more traffic. Tomorrow, people will re-visit their website to hear Saab’s response, thus getting more traffic to their site, thus generating more potential income. Why get 1 article from a story when you can get 2. “Don’t believe everything you read in the papers” – haven’t you heard that before? Can we please get over this whole idea that the media is attacking Saab! It is up to Saab to produce the best cars, and run the best business, to pay their bills on time, and then… Read more »

Can we please get over this whole idea that the media is attacking Saab! Maybe, maybe not. These are my facts about the di.se article. Eric Geers says: Something has happened today but he is not 100% informed. The Guy from IF says: The production stopped today, but he doesn’t know for how long The supplier guy says: Saab has failed to pay some 100.000 $ to suppliers, and should take care about that. Maybe I did not understand the Swedish texts properly, but my conclusion is, somebody is trying to combine 2 different pieces of news into one, but… Read more »

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6 years 5 months ago

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J Fan

But the problem is this bit: Eric Geers says: Something has happened today but he is not 100% informed Obviously “something has happened” and that is the problem – not the press. The press is the simply the result of the problem. It shouldn’t matter whether the press are good or poor at their jobs adding 1 and 1 and getting 5 – it is not our concern. If Saab don’t give the press any reasons to write stuff like this, i.e, like I said, build great cars and pay the bills etc., then there will not be anything bad… Read more »

Saab is in a crisis, no two words about it. When two key executives unexpectedly resign and their suppliers and contractors go on record saying they stop working for them because they don’t pay in time – even if it is all not connected to each other, its conjunction makes for a crisis. Not to mention there are probably links between those issues. Having said which, I am confident Saab will survive and bounce back in the long run, even if it involves yet another change of ownership. So I am worried, but not pessimistic. We can’t see what the… Read more »

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6 years 5 months ago

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J Fan

We own shops. If it got out that we didn’t pay our bills, it would not be good. I’m putting that mildly. As someone said, when people don’t pay the bills, it sets alarm bells ringing. *SaabsUnited* know that the Saab deal left them with enough funding. Does the average businessman who reads it in the newspaper tomorrow morning also know it too? Whatever we may think or know, Saab needs to address this asap. If I were them, I’d probably make an announcement about something else entirely. Will be interesting to see how VM responds 🙂

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6 years 5 months ago

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CJ

All: The timing here is a concern. Turnarounds are bumpy, sometimes gut-wrenchingly so. Saab had problems and probably still has many. It isn’t easy. Somebody needs to steady the ship. If there is a problem, be honest about it. It isn’t the end, its a problem. I fully support the company, the team, and the employees. Hang in there, Stay tough. Show up tomorrow and design and build the best damned cars in the world. The next day, do it again! Dealers, sell those great cars! I never thought I would need to break this out again for Saab….but… COWBOY… Read more »

CJ, Nice to see you still come back and try to calm the waters. Problems will come and problems will go, not to worry, Saab will continue to sail. Saab has a great product and more to come, the future, I believe is bright. If things were as dark as some would lead you to believe, would VA be so quick to want to invest? Stories like this will exist because it’s easy to speculate. Does Saab have issue’s? Of coarse, but which manufacturer doesn’t? Saab have done some exceptional things in the last year with partnerships and such, now… Read more »

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6 years 5 months ago

Guest

Bazzer

Hi this is my first post on Saabsunited, I collected my first Saab, a new 93 Sportwagon (combi) last Friday. Of course bad news about Saab production worries me, however I remain positive that things will turn around. I am a convert from Audi, although I never bought new Audi’s. I am really pleased with my 93, it handles great, is unassumingly fast, has nice features, is very well finished externally and is averagely finished inside, made up for by the Aero leather seats. So what am I judging it against, well a stack of new Audi loan cars when… Read more »

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6 years 5 months ago

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74stingray

Baz, Welcome to SU and to the Combi crowd… you’ll love the combi!

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6 years 5 months ago

Guest

J Fan

Integrale! YES!

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6 years 5 months ago

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Hans H

Lancia Delta Integrale and Porsche 944 as well as a Saab 9-3. You have good taste, sir. 🙂 Welcome to the community.

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6 years 5 months ago

Guest

Nate 9-3

Welcome, Bazzer. Congrats on the new wheels! The AERO seats are superb, aren’t they?

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6 years 5 months ago

Guest

RS

I’m away for a few hours and come back to THIS! Haven’t we had enough PR disasters lately? Now I see why they’ve been looking for a really good CFO. Can only imagine what kind of financial planning and amount of working capital Saab operations require at this point (especially when sales is picking up). One piece of advice to the management though. Do not start taking advantage of your suppliers! They have they’re business to run too, it’s co-operation. To many big companies screw and suck the life blood out of their small suppliers/subcontractors. Saab should not be one… Read more »

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6 years 5 months ago

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SAAB_andee

as Alex L posted a time ago – his dad working in the factory didn´t recognize a production stop. so keep calm and carry on is a good move.

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6 years 5 months ago

Guest

74stingray

SU has been blocked at work….. good thing because this thread might have eaten most of my productive day!

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6 years 5 months ago

Guest

GT

If they put a 3.6 in, I would rather see it put in after the magical date when saab can introduce products that compete with GM, so they can put a turbo on it and make it have 340-360 hp. A hirsch model with 380-400 hp could then happen and that would be sweet!

This might be an explanation. I found it on dn.se forum and it´s a google trans:

“According to data from the factory is that of GM’s Rüsselsheim plant (which manufactures many parts for Saab) has raised prices and violated the contract with Saab, which Saab rightly refused to pay. I have adequate access to the factory to know that there is absolutely no case of lack of funding. Too bad Saab is not fast enough to comment and let Svenåke Berglie rule alone”

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6 years 5 months ago

Guest

Börjesson

So that’s why Saab hasn’t paid the bills from their ad agency since December?

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6 years 5 months ago

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Ken H

What do we really know about the issue with the ad agency? Basically nothing, really.

Maybe there are disputes on other areas causing the climate change? Let us wait and see, shall we?

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6 years 5 months ago

Guest

ivo 71

A few tweets by VA on twitter (account: http://twitter.com/vladantonov1975# ) 2 all Saab community: everything sort out. Saab had a technical issue nothing more then that. Now everything fixed. I can guaranty that;) VA @SaabWorld just be a bit more relaxed! Saab is fine! Trust me! I know! @ninadobrev very true:) may be u just give me an advice how to fix tomorrow crisis in western part of Sweden:( all now depend on me:( Cool:) so many twitter users interesting in:) SAAB:))). And pls stop this hysteria now! I will get it done anyway:) Ok:) I see now a lot… Read more »

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6 years 5 months ago

Guest

ivo 71

Also interesting, if it really is RB VA is replying to: @richardbranson @virgin have a lot of 2 discuss then. Saab/Spyker/and a lot another issues. Will be glad 2 talk! Best! VA

Can somebody who has contacts to Mr. Antonov verify if this is actually a real account? Jörgen Trued for example (I saw that you were following him there, but do you actually know it is him!?)

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6 years 5 months ago

Guest

Nate 9-3

I have been watching this unfold all day long and I have reserved comment simply because I did not know what to think at any given moment. So I will get on my soapbox for a moment if you will permit me (I understand if you turn away) 🙂 Shame on you, Swedish Press! For being what we in the US call a “mean girl”. You have the maturity of a middle school gossip queen trying to bring down the girl with originality. Shame on you, SAAB! I love you to death – but sometimes you look like such a… Read more »

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