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Do you mean it's a non-exclusive contract? That's a different thing. As Julie points out, once it's out there, it's published (though "first rights" really applies to periodical publishing, and isn't the right term for what you're granting with book publication).

Creative Arts claimed to be filing for bankruptcy, but as far as I know they never did.

There is no record in the relevant district (Northern District of California) of Creative Arts filing for bankruptcy, unless it did so under a corporate umbrella name of which I am unaware. There is a "Creative Arts" that filed for bankruptcy in the Middle District of Pennsylvania a couple of years ago, but the principals names are listed and it's clearly not related to the Bay Area "publisher."

CEPblawg:Scrivener's Error (includes links to main site)Any legal comments in this message are general commentary only, and not legal advice
for your specific situation. You should not rely on such comments — or any other published
comments, by me or anyone else — as anything other than general guidance.
Unfortunately, no scam agents, vanity publishers, or other similar carrion-eaters were bent,
folded, spindled, or mutilated in creating this post (not for want of motivation).
Of course it's "fine print" — it's small and red.

Hmmm, I'm not sure, V. He just told me that he keeps first rights. I think he means that he's free to query traditional publishers right away, in which case, what would you call that? I haven't gone through the publication process yet, so I'm quite green when it comes to terminology...

~Sara

"There are moments when, whatever be the attitude of the body, the soul is on its knees." ~ Hugo

Hmmm, I'm not sure, V. He just told me that he keeps first rights. I think he means that he's free to query traditional publishers right away, in which case, what would you call that? I haven't gone through the publication process yet, so I'm quite green when it comes to terminology...

I expect that's a nonexclusive contract (which just means that he's free to publish anywhere else at the same time, as opposed to being restricted to publishing with that company only). However, unless he sells a lot of copies (say, 5,000 or so within the first six months to a year of release) a POD-pubbed book isn't likely to interest an agent or a commercial publisher. If that's his ultimate goal, this is not the right route to take. Some people think that if they can just "get it out there," it'll help them find commercial publication, but for most writers, this really isn't true.

Some people think that if they can just "get it out there," it'll help them find commercial publication, but for most writers, this really isn't true.

That's what I was trying to tell him, but I think he's just in it for the vanity aspect. He wrote it in a year and really wants to see it in print. I even told him I'd do all the leg work for him (finding an agent/publishing house) but he said he was doing this first. Oh well... Father knows best.

Thanks for the link. I'm heading over there now...

~Sara

"There are moments when, whatever be the attitude of the body, the soul is on its knees." ~ Hugo

Getting out of POD

Hi
I have looked but can't find any threads or post on this so Here it is.

I have published 2 book with POD - Traffords. I did some research before I signed the contracts but i guess not enough!!! ANyway I am wanting to know way to get out of Traffords and into a convetional publisher.

One book is a niche market - teaching the Bible to kids. This is for kids workers, sunday school teachers, parents etc.
I have had more interest shown in this book. I have done some very aggresive marketing on this one.

The other one is a fun book of suggestions to do while on hold.

I guess I was green enough to think that I could sell enough copies so a conventiaonal publisher would take notice of me. Both books have just come out and I am not at all impressed with Trafford at all. (I will write a thread on Warnings & Beware sharing the details there!!)

My experience with Trafford.

Hi
Here is my experience with Trafford. They were great until I paid the money. After that I didn't get any emails or contact with them. I had to constantly push them. They had promised to have my books ready by Christmas 2006. One of the file could not be opened but they didn't tell me about it for a long time. When they did I resent the file straight away. They did not read the email or pick up the file for 10 days. Then they sent me an email saying that because the time was up now that I would not be published for Christmas and that I also owed them more money.
I was furious. I sent an email right back stating that I HAD send the correct money for both of my books. I had sent the files but they had not picked them up for over 10 days. They had promised me that my books would be out for Christmas but now they were saying that it would not be possible to do so. It was ALL their fault. I had done everything they had asked and inthe time limit, so I threathed to sue them for breach of contract and lost of earning.
Now I statrted getting results. I got one book released on Dec. 24th. I had got it out but it was still to late for the Christmas sales. My other book came out just 10 days ago. Then they had put all the wrong info on for the book. WAH!!!!
I want to get out of Trafford and get into a main conventional publisher. I would not recomend this route to ANYONE.
Thanks
Kev

KC, you are not alone in what you want.
I have the Traford contract in my office. When I find it I'll give it another read (it's been a long time) and see what they say about breaking it. It may be the standard 30 day written notification.

The difficulty as I see it is you've already had these books out and so any further issues will have to be "second editions". It's my understanding that most publishers shy away from books that may have sold out to their potential audience.
The first person you will have to sell on the idea that your book is still viable is an agent. There are lots of threads here about agents and how to approach one. Once that hurdle is passed you wait until your agent sells you book. If the agent believes in the product he/she may be able to sell it to a publisher; maybe not

Keep in mind that as long as you maintain your contract with T--- you will remain listed on the online catalogs. If you get a publisher to take your book it may sell like hotcakes and be re-issued time and again thus fill bookstore shelves. If it does not do well your publisher will most probably discontinue your books and that will be that.

Of course it that happens you may then return to POD and continue to make you books available to online customers.
I know a several authors who, having been published by small and large presses, have re-issued their books via POD.

There are other issues here as well. But I'm speaking directly to your question.

Trafford Publishing

I was searching the web for reputable publishers to add to my list of publishers/agents for when I have completed my manuscript, and I came across Trafford Publishing. http://www.trafford.com I did a search on them here and couldn't find anything, so if I've reposted known information, I apologize.

They appear to be a vanity publisher, though they don't hide it, but authors who wish to have a book printed within 4-6 weeks must pay a minimum of $697. They look to be along the same lines as Publish America, except for the fact that they charge you money upfront. I just wanted to post this up there as a warning that Yog's Law says money flows towards the writer.

One of the testimonials on their pages says, "It is great that you have this publishing service for authors because if you're not a well known or established author and you send your book to a big time book company, it will probably get no further than the trash can. Think of how many great books never got published because of this. Many people, myself included, have been held back because of this. Finally, a way to get published without all the other problems. Thanks again, Cassandra, for all your kind and helpful assistance. I look forward to seeing what all of you think of my book. I'm sure it will be a best seller (I bet you've heard that before)."

Getting published is hard work. Getting an agent is hard work. This is not a reason to pay close to $2646 for the most expensive "package" to see your name in print. Go to Kinko's or Staples or even Lulu, where you only pay for each book you have printed, but don't throw your money away so you can "get published without all the other problems."

Also, their packages state they will spend up to two hours creating a cover for you. This is not enough time to create a worthwhile cover. Not for that money. Again, if you want to self/vanity publish, go to Lulu.com. It's a lot cheaper and you'll save yourself money in the long run.

If anyone has any further information, please post it here, I don't want to see writers emptying their wallets and paying for a dream that can only be achieved through hardwork and diligence.

"Ma'am, what are you doing?""Hey, listen, you're allowed to eat people when your plane goes down. I didn't know how long I was gonna have to survive out here.""Survive? Ma'am, you're plane went down 3 minutes ago. You were flying from Chicago to Nashville. You can see the f*cking IHOP from here. What is your problem?"

trafford publishing

Yes, trafford was a good idea at the time when I was young and STUPID!
I also had problems with them opening my file and then they screwed up on the cover they had every excuse why it wasn't their fault. Then they sent me an additional bill to re do the cover...mind you I never paid it and never will.

I would like to know if anyone has had a book published with them and googled your name and found that trafford not only selling through-out well-known websites example Walmart.com, Chapters.com, and so on....
Did you see where they actually put not just the synopsis for the selling feature, but just about the entire storyline...like pages 1-20 then pages 40-60 then part of the last chapter?
I called trafford because first of all I couldn't see this even being legal and feels like a personal violation, especially not even getting my permission to do so with my work...but they claim trafford customers have even asked for this. Is it true? Is it a selling feature to give away the beginning, middle and the end?

SOMEONE BESIDES TRAFFORD PUBLISHING STAFF, PLEASE CONTACT ME?

Originally Posted by KCpotatohead

Hi
Here is my experience with Trafford. They were great until I paid the money. After that I didn't get any emails or contact with them. I had to constantly push them. They had promised to have my books ready by Christmas 2006. One of the file could not be opened but they didn't tell me about it for a long time. When they did I resent the file straight away. They did not read the email or pick up the file for 10 days. Then they sent me an email saying that because the time was up now that I would not be published for Christmas and that I also owed them more money.
I was furious. I sent an email right back stating that I HAD send the correct money for both of my books. I had sent the files but they had not picked them up for over 10 days. They had promised me that my books would be out for Christmas but now they were saying that it would not be possible to do so. It was ALL their fault. I had done everything they had asked and inthe time limit, so I threathed to sue them for breach of contract and lost of earning.
Now I statrted getting results. I got one book released on Dec. 24th. I had got it out but it was still to late for the Christmas sales. My other book came out just 10 days ago. Then they had put all the wrong info on for the book. WAH!!!!
I want to get out of Trafford and get into a main conventional publisher. I would not recomend this route to ANYONE.
Thanks
Kev

I wasted my entire day seeking justice etc with trafford publishing adding many of my pages to a google site-free for all viewers eyes. I was shocked I wasn't asked permission to do this with MY WORK. But turns out many have told me it is more of a selling feature the more they advertise my novel. So I am a little less pee'd off at trafford.

Originally Posted by mysterywriter666

Yes, trafford was a good idea at the time when I was young and STUPID!
I also had problems with them opening my file and then they screwed up on the cover they had every excuse why it wasn't their fault. Then they sent me an additional bill to re do the cover...mind you I never paid it and never will.

I would like to know if anyone has had a book published with them and googled your name and found that trafford not only selling through-out well-known websites example Walmart.com, Chapters.com, and so on....
Did you see where they actually put not just the synopsis for the selling feature, but just about the entire storyline...like pages 1-20 then pages 40-60 then part of the last chapter?
I called trafford because first of all I couldn't see this even being legal and feels like a personal violation, especially not even getting my permission to do so with my work...but they claim trafford customers have even asked for this. Is it true? Is it a selling feature to give away the beginning, middle and the end?

I have some proof that Trafford IS NOT Honest about their dealings with the royalties. The email below was sent to me today. I too am sure there are many more. If you are one of them or you suspect something please email me.

Thanks
Kev

The Email:

Hi Kevin,

Excuse the interruption, however, I was given your e-mail address from a gentleman in Seattle, Washington
who I have been in contact with regarding issues with Trafford Publishing. I found a "blog" that you had written
which expressed a sentiment that I think many are feeling but to unaware to address. Your blog related to the
lack of royalty reporting by Trafford and I am deep in the middle of trying to get them to address the same issue
with me. I have published two books with Trafford in the past 1 1/2 years and have yet to receive any royalties
or even reported sales from online booksellers like amazon and barnes and noble. As a marketing person by
profession, I purchased copies of my own books from these sites so that I could track sales, as well as
document orders not only for myself, but for my customers as well. Trafford has consistently given me the
"run around" about these orders and claims that they have not received the necessary information from the
book distributors in order for these sales to record. First they told me it takes 3 months, then 5 months and
now they will not respond to either my e-mails or my telephone voicemails. It was when I offered to give
them order numbers and documented proof of the sales that they stopped communicating altogether.

I do not feel that they are specifically targeting me...I believe this practice of not reporting online sales has been
going on for quite some time and either authors are not aware and just believe that their books are not selling
or are willing to play the game and just keep waiting for their royalties to magically appear. Anyway, that is
what is happening to me and I would be very interested in hearing your story as well. While it may feel like
we are alone in dealing with this obvious deception, I am confident that there are many others like us that need
to sound their voices loud and clear and hold Trafford accountable for their actions.

I have some experience with Trafford. I'll pass it along for information purposes. I hope I don't ruffle any feathers.

I have not published any of my own work with them, but have a friend who wrote a self-help book. She wrote it with the intention of selling it on her self-help website. For under $1,000, she had her book printed (I formatted the files and sent to Trafford). She sells about 30 per month from her website and another five or six a month through Amazon.

She has made a little money on it. Each month that goes by adds a little more.

I had no problems dealing with Trafford. They gave her exactly what they said they would. For her, I think Trafford was a good choice.

For most writers, I would not recommend Trafford. If you have been rejected a hundred times and just want to see your book in print, you will do whatever it takes - even spend some money.

However, if all you want is to see a copy of your hard work in print, you can go to cafepress and have that done for about $15.

Seven hundred dollars? Ridiculous. The only one who makes any money is Trafford. If you want to self-publish your book, let's try a better example.

How about Lightning Source? Set up a bank account in the name of a publisher (you), even if it's 'Joe Citizen Books'. Then buy 10 isbns with your own prefix for $250. Drop another $120 or so on the upload fee for your book, assign that sucker one of the ISBN's, and then upload your cover and text files to them. They charge you 12 dollars a year to keep that book in the database.

Then...you can obtain say, a six-by-nine novel at around 170 pages for something like 3.25 a copy for single copies. Set a wholesale price for the book at LSI. Make it 50-55% (and no more) of what is referred to as 'normal retail' for that size/type book. Make sure you also upload your book info and thumbnails to google, barnes, amazon, booksurge, etc.

Book jobbers at Amazon and elsewhere will add your book to their lists because they can get it wholesale. LSI's 'New Release' newsletter reaches more than 10,000 outlets a month.

Since you can now obtain your book at less than wholesale from LSI, you can also market that book legitimately to bookstores.

I kind of speeded through this post, so I may have missed on a couple of things, but this process is much better than just forking over money to folks who are going to charge YOU more than wholesale just to get a copy of your own book. And bookstore sales? Forget it. Bookstores won't touch anything they can't get wholesale. Or very little.

I speak from experience here. Adventure Books of Seattle went through Lulu.com for three and a half years. Our books were all less than ten dollars, which made them cheaper than 90% of the other books at Lulu. Ours are pro-edited and formatted. Still...we sold not that many copies.

We are dumping Lulu and moving over to LSI. One book is there. The rest will follow soon, as well as our magazine. Our upcoming release isn't even being uploaded to Lulu this time. The only thing they are good for is ordering proof copies, IMHO. That's because they charge zero dollars to make changes, and LSI charges a bundle. Your files to LSI must be LETTER PERFECT. So...use Lulu to check proofs. You do this by selecting the 'Available Only To Me' option when publishing at Lulu, and then you order a copy to check for errors or image problems. If there are errors, fix them and reload and order another copy. When you get it right, contact your LSI rep (they assign someone to you) and get ready to upload your cover and text.

If you have a problem with Trafford, the best route to go, believe it or not...is to file a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission. It's one of the few organizations dishonest publishers fear. The form is on their website.

Trafford Publishing

My name is Sergio and I'm a Publishing Consultant for Trafford Publishing.

New authors seeking publication face a great challenge because publishing companies flooded with unsolicited manuscripts simply do not have resources to take a chance on unproven talent.

Together we will produce a book following your instructions, we will get it registered, published and help you sell it worldwide. It will be available at the main online bookstores, the catalogues used by bookstores in North America and Europe and at book fairs around the globe.

Our main office is in Beautiful British Columbia, Canada and in the UK we are in London and Oxford.

If you have any questions or just want to talk about your book don’t hesitate to contact me.

New authors seeking publication face a great challenge because publishing companies flooded with unsolicited manuscripts simply do not have resources to take a chance on unproven talent.

Hi Mr. Santamaria,

This statement is patently untrue. Publishing companies--real, legitimate ones who pay advances and put books on bookstore shelves--publish new authors every day. They're not "taking a chance" on anything; they see a book they think is good and will sell, and they pay the author for the right to publish it. Period.

Happens all the time. Happened to many of us on this board, including me.

New authors seeking publication face a great challenge because publishing companies flooded with unsolicited manuscripts simply do not have resources to take a chance on unproven talent.

This is the standard line vanity and POD presses use in order to justify their existence. It's a classic "you're sunk, so don't even bother trying - come with us because we'll give you the chance you deserve." It's the used car salesman pitch. The car may be shiny on the outside, but don't dare look under the hood. That's where your money pit lives.

And what's this line about "unproven talent"? If a new writer bangs out a fabulous and marketable book, I'd say they've proven their talent in spades. New authors are extended solid, legit publishing contracts every day and their books sell very well. If you want to promote your business of pay-to-play, then I recommend doing this with a better sales pitch because lying to your potential customers doesn't create a solid foundation of trust, does it?

OK, so Sergio picked the wrong spot to post a solicitation for a POD self-publishing service.

But in Trafford's favor, it doesn't pretend to be anything it isn't. And although it's pricier than some other POD companies, it's one of the less-complained-about in terms of service delivery and product quality.

It's very brave of you to post her, Mr Santamaria. However, what you say makes my blood boil for all same reasons given above.

It happened to me too. I got a good publishing deal without being out of pocket and deluded into the bargain. I'm not famous, I'm not young and blonde, I'm not photogenic but I've got a publishing deal from a small but traditional publisher who paid me an advance as soon as I signed the contract. The publisher has a distributor here and in the USA. My book is in their glossy catalogue. The cover was designed by a professional design company and went through various changes and I was in on all the discussions. I have an experienced publicist on the case who is there at the end of a phone and email --as is my editor. I may even be paid royalties, even though I'm not ever likely to be a bestseller. I did this without an agent but by submitting a partial, then being asked for the full manuscript and then being accepted.

Good publishing is all about whether a publisher (through experience and knowledge of the business) considers that a manuscript can be turned into a book that will sell--through bookshops--not to just listed on their websites--that means nothing but physically on the shelves, and if the terms are right on the front tables. No-one 'deserves' to be published unless their product is good enough and that's what publishers look for. And funnily enough, that usually means it's well-written. My publisher has never flattered me or told me that I deserve to published. I wrote the novel. He believes he can sell it and make a profit for both of us. I like that. It's straightforward.

Stop misleading people, Mr Santamaria. It's called vanity because it appeals to people's vanity--by telling people who need to work harder and longer that they're worth it. Some are. Some aren't. But I long for the day that companies like Trafford come clean and say they make their money out of writers not the book-buying public. I have no problem with what you and they do as long as they don't use obfuscation and misleading statements to trick people to part with their cash unnecessarily.

OK, so Sergio picked the wrong spot to post a solicitation for a POD self-publishing service.

But in Trafford's favor, it doesn't pretend to be anything it isn't. And although it's pricier than some other POD companies, it's one of the less-complained-about in terms of service delivery and product quality.

- Victoria

From the looks of things, no one's protesting the POD so much as the stupid 'new authors have it hard' spiel he's using to advertise the POD.

Censorship always defeats its own purpose, for it creates in the end the kind of society that is incapable of exercising real discretion. -- Henry Steele CommagerAchievers strive for excellence. Perfectionists drive themselves to extinction. -- A Grapple A DayI've never known any trouble that an hour's reading didn't assuage. -- Charles DeSecondat