Britain has more clout than Norway or Switzerland but how much of that clout is from our EU connections?

How much of our macho financial bravado was just wiped off last week, and how turned off are investors in this uncertainty, not to mention legit xenophobia now?

It's "great" to see that EU citizens are treated as pawns by the UK government. When people are referred to in those terms you might as well be back a few fecades during the apartheid in Africa.

I wonder how nice it'll be if all EU citizens just say f*ck off to the Tories and we take off with all our savings and vacate all the jobs we're doing. Would be absolutely delighted to see the aftermath of that.

But Norway and Switzerland don't have anywhere near the sort of clout the UK does - they are drastically smaller economies, for a start.

In spite of all the recent turmoil, the UK is still a major player (economically, of all the EU nations, we're only trumped by Germany). We'll certainly have more leverage to negotiate terms than the Swiss or Norwegians did.

I'm as in the dark as anybody else as to what the negotiations might bring. However, to say the only two possible outcomes are either the Swiss-type deal or the Norwegian-type deal is, I think, a bit simplistic. Both these nations have completely different agreements in place with the EU; who's to say our deal won't be different again?

regardless, the UK will not be able to do any sort of deal with the EU to access the single market that includes restrictions to free movement. The EU are never going to budge on it, no matter how "attractive" and "Clout +1" the UK is. Unless the government does want to completely and utterly tank the economy of course...

"When did you first realize that he uses bad grammar to distract you whenever you raise an objection to something he wants to do?"

It's "great" to see that EU citizens are treated as pawns by the UK government. When people are referred to in those terms you might as well be back a few fecades during the apartheid in Africa.

I wonder how nice it'll be if all EU citizens just say f*ck off to the Tories and we take off with all our savings and vacate all the jobs we're doing. Would be absolutely delighted to see the aftermath of that.

On the upside, I haven't been as impressed and inspired as I am now by Scotland. There's a Government with a decent person in charge. So despite not being part of Scotland, thanks.

*This post might come off as more derogatory than it is intended, but being treated like garbage and a pawn by a country that I've done nothing but contribute is a bit too much.

Think that's fair. The problem is, no-one wants to guarantee rights to current EU residents because it can then be used as a bargaining chip for any trade deal. 'Give us a beneficial deal or we'll start sending everybody home' it's why none of the current Tory leadership candidates have promised anything in this regard as yet, because they think they can use it as leverage in any deal.

Whilst you can see why they're doing what they're doing, it absolutely stinks - gambling with people's lives like that, and all because a handful of MPs wanted to further their careers.

Totally agree on the Scotland thing, however. I was dead against Sturgeon during the Scottish referendum, but she's been the one ray of light in British politics these last few weeks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patapsco

regardless, the UK will not be able to do any sort of deal with the EU to access the single market that includes restrictions to free movement. The EU are never going to budge on it, no matter how "attractive" and "Clout +1" the UK is. Unless the government does want to completely and utterly tank the economy of course...

The thing is, the UK public were sold on Brexit - in the main - because of promises to curb immigration. Most of the rhetoric from The Sun, The Mail and UKIP had immigration at the top of the agenda. Whoever becomes Tory leader has got a massive fight on their hands, because if they agree to free movement a lot of Brexiteers, whose votes were cast on the promise of such curbs, are going to be right royally cheesed off if/when their promises come to nought. How many times was the phrase 'Australian-style points system' bandied around during the course of the debates?

I know Farage is now out of the picture, but if the Tories concede free movement, it could conceivably push a lot of 'average joe' Brexiteers into the arms of far-right parties like UKIP, especially if they begin to realise they've been 'betrayed' by the mainstream parties.

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The thing is, the UK public were sold on Brexit - in the main - because of promises to curb immigration. Most of the rhetoric from The Sun, The Mail and UKIP had immigration at the top of the agenda. Whoever becomes Tory leader has got a massive fight on their hands, because if they agree to free movement a lot of Brexiteers, whose votes were cast on the promise of such curbs, are going to be right royally cheesed off if/when their promises come to nought. How many times was the phrase 'Australian-style points system' bandied around during the course of the debates?

I know Farage is now out of the picture, but if the Tories concede free movement, it could conceivably push a lot of 'average joe' Brexiteers into the arms of far-right parties like UKIP, especially if they begin to realise they've been 'betrayed' by the mainstream parties.

pretty much this, and no wonder BoJo TwatTwat and Nigel F***** pissed off as soon as they got the chance. They've essentially built a bonfire, poured petrol on it and walked away.

"When did you first realize that he uses bad grammar to distract you whenever you raise an objection to something he wants to do?"

I wonder how nice it'll be if all EU citizens just say f*ck off to the Tories and we take off with all our savings and vacate all the jobs we're doing. Would be absolutely delighted to see the aftermath of that.

Don't forget kicking out the Brits currently working in the EU outside UK!

I wonder how nice it'll be if all EU citizens just say f*ck off to the Tories and we take off with all our savings and vacate all the jobs we're doing. Would be absolutely delighted to see the aftermath of that.

I wouldn't..! Who would I buy random fancy Transformers from?

Amusingly, a potential stemming of the 'tide of migration' ((c) all lazy newspapers) is being used by Jeremy Hunt to force through the untested and unpopular junior doctor's contract.

I am disappointed that a load of our political lords and masters have f**ked off out it because they didn't like the result or are happy enough that we've got a vote to leave, and aren't so bothered that there's no plan in place for what comes next. Brilliant. Its that kind of attitude that leads to nonsense like our brilliant 'liberation' of Iraq!

"You're all free to do as you like now! We're off now! Byeeee! Sorry the place is a bit of a mess, but I'm sure you'll think of something.Pip Pip!"

...well thanks very much.

I think if we do end up doing a deal with Europe and still have freedom of movement, whoever our next PM is (wouldn't actually mind if it was May, she seems capable and diligent, if not terribly showy - ideal for her current job- although her position on internet snooping isn't my cup of tea. And hello to GCHQ if you're reading this. Which you probably are) will just have to come out and tell it like it is; 'you can't have your cake and eat it, not with the chronic skills shortages we have in this country'.

So we're going to have our second female PM regardless of who actually wins the vote. With a choice between a homophobe who has tried to push policies that actually restrict female rights and someone no one has ever heard of who makes up her CV. What a country.

Leadsom thinks that all new businesses should basically be exempt from pretty much every worker-related law, while May seems to think that everyone should be exempt from the human rights act.

It's great fun, it really ****ing is. Especially considering that whoever wins is basically a sacrificial lamb to decide exactly which half of the country is going to revolt.

Leadsom seems to think that we can definitely get free trade with the EU without free movement, and also that the Pound devaluing had absolutely nothing to do with the vote, but is just because the markets "hadn't correctly anticipated result of referendum".

So we've a straight choice between somebody who's not in favour of rights and somebody who's not in favour of rights and blatantly has no idea how the economy works despite having (supposedly?) worked in the city.

Well, I say "we've got a straight choice". The people who are members of the Conservative party have a straight choice. This whole "taking back control" thing has gone marvelously.

I'm guessing the spectre of Gordon Brown means the whole fixed term thing will go out the window and we'll have a general election as soon as possible (we don't usually have them in winter, but considering the weather during the referendum that may be a moot point), even if the same papers who made such a fuss of him being "Unelected" suddenly remember PM isn't an elected office this time around.

I would say I don't think anyone, leave or stay, could argue the result hasn't been a massive **** up. But it seems Leadsom would.

I've always thought it was a shame Ken Clarke clearly isn't liked by a lot of his party, if you have to have a Tory PM he's always struck me as having more sense and integrity than most of them (or most MP's to be fair) even though I don't hugely agree with his politics.

Corbyn's fighting a losing battle though. Most of the PLP desperately want to return to glory days of Blairism and New Labour, except that was only slightly to the left of where the Tories are now. But what the country needs is a left wing opposition to stamp down on the Tories, and the PLP ain't going to deliver that

"When did you first realize that he uses bad grammar to distract you whenever you raise an objection to something he wants to do?"

So that Government petition you might have seen on FB and signed...got a response from the Government.

It basically amounts to tough sh!t, Cameron said we're going.

There was a staff consultation the other day about this. Nobody knows how it's going to play out. Even the concerned political parties are trying to opt for a very similar agreement to what's happening now.

Which brings up the point...why the f*ck bother with this mess in the first place?

Corbyn's fighting a losing battle though. Most of the PLP desperately want to return to glory days of Blairism and New Labour, except that was only slightly to the left of where the Tories are now. But what the country needs is a left wing opposition to stamp down on the Tories, and the PLP ain't going to deliver that

It's pretty much the same here with the Democrats being only left on most social issues and more like the GOP are on everything else.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knightdramon

So that Government petition you might have seen on FB and signed...got a response from the Government.

It basically amounts to tough sh!t, Cameron said we're going.

I understand the reason as too why the ones who wanted to stay in the EU want a second vote. It wasn't exactly a landslide victory by any means (the sources across the pond say it was roughly 52/48) and that some want a second vote with a 60% threshold to determine to stay or leave. I don't think that is a good idea, look it sucks I get that, but lets say that a second Brexit is called and the stay votes win but fail to get the 60% threshold what then? A third vote? Would there have to be a 3 out of 5 Brexits to final decide once and for all?

All the while the UK economy would still go down drain and the EU might get fed up with the UK's back and forth and just kick the UK out of the EU regardless what the voters of the UK say (which I'm sure the right-wingers of the UK would love that and probably some on the left as well), I watched a video somewhere (it was on either The Young Turks, The Ring of Fire, or RT America I can't remember which) where the German Chancellor said she wanted the UK out the EU as fast as possible.

Look it sucks, but IMHO turning Brexit into a series is not a good idea.

In fairness, PMs don't have to be elected by us plebs. cf Gordon Brown, as a very recent example. We vote in the party, not the leader of the party.

I think May's the less mad choice and seems a fairly sensible pair of hands. God knows what'll happen next though. The economic enormity of what we've done really is just starting to dawn on people, all the farmers going 'oh f**k, we've lost EU protected status' for everything they produce and export, George Osborne just seems to have hit the panic button and asked the bank of England to just flush some more money into the system because that always helps...

On the plus side, at least the shambles that is the Hinckley Point nuclear power station might finally be put out of its misery (15 years of nothing happening is an embarrassing indictment of not only our failure to get this sorted, but also spells out the difficulty of getting major public infrastructure sorted under the EU where cheaper government borrowing is heavily restricted in deference of getting the private sector to build such projects. Hence our love of the PFI wheeze.).

General feeling seems to be that we want all the trade we have with Europe at the moment, but none of the stuff we have to put up with in exchange. I don't think we've realistically got a cat in hells chance of negotiating something like that.

I can't argue that of all the backwards thinking chavs in suits Theresa May is the best option, but that still feels like somebody asking you to pick up a piece of turd by its clean side.

If I'm feeling vindictive enough, yes, I hope farmers shov£ their lack of funding and protection up their ass*s---I was at a debate months ago and the farmer representative said he wants out of the EU because the EU gives him an additional 20k a year for nothing in exchange.

Hands up for all those who believe we'll get the exact same package but with an increased contribution and no say on the table---ie like Norway.

Just today I got an email from a customer of ours, saying he does not wish to come to the UK anymore because the UK does not feel like a welcoming place to foreigners anymore. There you go, money lost. And I don't blame them. If my prospects were better back in Greece I'd quite possibly kiss this xenophobic backwards thinking place goodbye.