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Having a label as supporter of terror is not a nice thing in these days..and price China paying to please Pak will not be worth it. We will see.

What price is china paying. Really its nothing on the global scale. There is no major change in its markets and its munna is happy. There is really no way to hurt china other than a Govt sponsored, whatsapp driven boycott of China maal (not trade sanctions or trade war).

India often does not walk the talk. We have not even declared PAK as terrorist state !!?? Why ?? We have the might to take on the dragon (sub conventionally for now). Its time to walk the talk

Pakistan Prime Minister Imran Khan has threatened to hit India with “aggressive” action, hinting at the full weight of its nuclear arsenal. Khan extended his threat to “any superpower” that provokes his country. Are his words pointed at Donald Trump, who has shown support for India over Pakistan in recent events? With 145 nuclear warheads in its bunkers, it’s time to take this conflict seriously. The danger of nuclear war is real and present, and the US, Russia, and China are all involved. In a speech in Chachro, close to the border with India, Khan said:

Strategic messaging, he chose chachro because 10 Para Commando raided this town and took the towns garrison as POW. The recent well publicized meetings between US Special Operations commander with Indian Chief has rattled them up.

Chinis are going for bargain-basement goodwill from the Pakis IMO. Pakistan is almost totally isolated, with all other P4, plus the UNSC non-permanent members, plus many non-member states backing India's stand on MMA.

China, of course, wants to keep its leverage in Pakistan. In better times for the Terrorist State, this could get expensive... Beijing would have to give Pakis aid and loans that would never be returned, because they had to compete with the US, Saudis, etc. for leverage. Today it's as simple (and inexpensive) as blocking a motion in the UNSC and Pakis will be desperately grateful for the scrap.

In addition, Chinis are getting a ringside view of how things might have gone for them had they decided to up the ante in Doklam. Balakot and the days after that have rattled them nearly as much as the Doklam standoff itself. Also, the Balakot demonstration has not been lost on other countries in SE Asia, who may be rethinking their acceptance of a unitary Chinese hegemony in the neighbourhood now that a resurgent India is proving its military ability and political will.

So-- anything the Chinis can do to avoid strengthening India's hand when it comes to dealing out punishment to the Pakis, they will do. This includes derailing UNSC sanctions against a terrorist, which would provide diplomatic cover for any further actions by India.

If the UNSC wont act, India has gone the Diplomatic route, the only thing left is military. It has opened the door for more attacks against terror.

Added Later: This is a golden opportunity to cut Pakistan down to size. Destroy their air force, navy and cut their Army to size. Then move the troops to then Chinese border and aggressively patrol Akashi Chin.

If the UNSC wont act, India has gone the Diplomatic route, the only thing left is military. It has opened the door for more attacks against terror.

That door was decidedly open based on the GOI statements and 3 service chief's statements

Yes, but India had to give the Diplomats an opportunity to do their thing or these same Diplomats could have done India Pakistan equal equal and sanctioned India. Now that threat is much reduced if not gone.

Agreed YIP. Had the Chinis gone along with nautanki of "Pakistan govt promises to undertake strong action against proscribed terrorist", and allowed MMA to undergo 6 months' house arrest with biryani and dialysis, they would have shown themselves a "responsible leader of the international community" (along with other P4) and maintained the gloss of existing on a higher plane of superpowerdom than India-Pakistan. Being in on the consensus would have enabled them to plead Pakistan's case with more credibility the next time we decide to do a Balakot.

In fact this is exactly what the PRC of Deng or Jiang Zemin or Hu Jintao would have done. Ingratiate itself with the P5, seem to "go along with the programme", and sabotage later from the exalted P5 backrooms. Xi is a different beast. I think he has absorbed too much Pakistaniyat up the CPEC enema-bag.

Nam I think you're right, it's an H&D thing for Xi Jinping. It was a different matter to pretend to go along with the other P5 members when India was in general viewed as a regional power (i.e. as no potential threat to China). After Doklam that has changed. Chinis are rattled and will openly use every advantage they have, including UNSC veto, to confront India from now on.

How come all these pigs need dialysis? This suar, then that one eyed guy Omar and even Osama. What crap they eat? I know they say they do not eat pork but then again may be they should (it is healthier).

All 3 fathers are in UNSCAll 3 fathers need not veto together - just one father vetoing is enough to defeat the motion

So leaving out Russia & France, the 3 Paki fathers could have decided that only one father revealing their hand as "bad parent" is sufficient and that father is the same father who revealed the hand in the previous Masood Azhar vote.

So by all means Chini pork bun needs to be cooked but lets also keep some in the oven for Massa and Briturds who do the good parent bad parent thing for the sake of their paki baccha getting off the hook.

"on account of a member placing the proposal on hold" -> Why not name China? I mean, is there a MORE core national interest for us than Kashmir and a more heinous attack than Pulwama, that we are willing to give a figleaf of anonymity to China?

"we will continue to pursue all available avenues to ensure that terrorist leaders who are involved in heinous attacks on our citizens are brought to justice" -> If China had relented and UNSC proscribed this suar, we would have not pursued any other option? We know squat nothing has happened to the other suar (Hafiz Saeed) who was banned ages ago. There's no need to link this proposal to OUR actions.

More broadly, I don't know why we've made such a hue and cry about UNSC banning OUR enemies. On one hand, we consider UNSC P5 to be self-appointed, arbitrary, discriminatory and ineffective. On the other hand, we give it so much importance that we're willing to forego picking up arms because of a statement that was signed by all of them unanimously.

saip wrote:How come all these pigs need dialysis? This suar, then that one eyed guy Omar and even Osama. What crap they eat? I know they say they do not eat pork but then again may be they should (it is healthier).

saip wrote:How come all these pigs need dialysis? This suar, then that one eyed guy Omar and even Osama. What crap they eat? I know they say they do not eat pork but then again may be they should (it is healthier).

I think high animal fat in diet is cause for this.. This leads to diabetes and high blood pressure which are two leading causes of nephropathy.. also high protein diet can lead to elevated uric acid levels which is known to rapidly damage kidneys..

any form of street food video in pakistan on youtube shows there is hardly any preference for veg in the diet.its always some form of meat + naan.perhaps meat is cheaper than tomatoes there all that burned meat done on open flame coal sigri cannot be too good long term. volatile organic compounds will come out of the coal and attach themselves on the meat.

a more active horse borne lifestyle of old in the steppe , could perhaps sustain such a diet. not the indolent life of a jihadi leader roaming in toyota fortuner.

Singha wrote:any form of street food video in pakistan on youtube shows there is hardly any preference for veg in the diet.its always some form of meat + naan.perhaps meat is cheaper than tomatoes there all that burned meat done on open flame coal sigri cannot be too good long term. volatile organic compounds will come out of the coal and attach themselves on the meat.

a more active horse borne lifestyle of old in the steppe , could perhaps sustain such a diet. not the indolent life of a jihadi leader roaming in toyota fortuner.

and the afghans accuse pakistanis of being 'dal eaters'. Me thinks only pakistani street food is majorly non-veg so as to attract customers. food cooked at home is more in Indian style of saag, daal, choley, haleem, katlama, nihari, paya, biryani etc.

If one eat meat in all meals, kidney and/liver will give up one after the other. this is also reason why in most hospital wards treating liver and urology sections, the patients admitted are disproportionately from one community.

"on account of a member placing the proposal on hold" -> Why not name China? I mean, is there a MORE core national interest for us than Kashmir and a more heinous attack than Pulwama, that we are willing to give a figleaf of anonymity to China?

"we will continue to pursue all available avenues to ensure that terrorist leaders who are involved in heinous attacks on our citizens are brought to justice" -> If China had relented and UNSC proscribed this suar, we would have not pursued any other option? We know squat nothing has happened to the other suar (Hafiz Saeed) who was banned ages ago. There's no need to link this proposal to OUR actions.

More broadly, I don't know why we've made such a hue and cry about UNSC banning OUR enemies. On one hand, we consider UNSC P5 to be self-appointed, arbitrary, discriminatory and ineffective. On the other hand, we give it so much importance that we're willing to forego picking up arms because of a statement that was signed by all of them unanimously.

Agree. A lot of bureaucratese. Should have forthrightly mentioned PRC.

There’s been a lot of noise about what happened in Balakot on 26th Feb 2019 and on LoC on 27th Feb. There were lots of claims from both sides but nothing definite. Indian officials were tight lipped and issued only terse statements , while Pakistanis released one statement after another.

Media reports from both sides were as usual quite trashy and more noise than substance. In all this noise, there were some recordings, witness statements and less publicised events which provide some hints about what actually happened. There is some new information coming out almost every day and it’s a difficult task to do detailed fact checks and connect all the dots. Following is an attempt to find some answers based upon some of the facts which are seemingly true.

6th Feb. 2:55 am : A Indian Air Force strike team consisting solely of Mirage 2000 fighter jets attacked a JeM terrorist training camp in Balakot in Khyber Phaktunwa province across international border. There were reports of 2 other targets, Chakoti and Muzaffarabad in Pakistan being hit, but no confirmations from either side. But both sides are in agreement that Balakot was bombed. India announced the attacks later in the day via an official statement made by Vijay Gokhale, Secretary, Ministry of External Affairshttps://youtu.be/DTA3jlTWSWQ

Pakistani Claims:Pakistanis on the other hand made a number of mutually contradictory claims.

1. “Pakistani National Security Committee strongly rejected Indian claim of targeting an alleged terrorist camp near Balakot and the claim of heavy casualties. Once again Indian government has resorted to a self-serving, reckless and fictitious claim,” 1* 2*

2. Pakistan foreign minister Qureshi said “multi-dimensional intrusion” had been attempted by the Indian fighter jets early on Tuesday. “But the intervention by Pakistani jets forced them to return back within minutes,” he said. The minister dismissed the notion that Pakistan Air Force jets were late in responding to the Indian attack, saying the planes were “ready” and “air-borne”. 2*

3. Director-general of Pakistan’s Inter Services Public Relations, Maj. Gen. Asif Ghafoor, said India had “attempted” to send its combat air patrols (CAPs) “first from the Lahore-Sialkot sector” and they were “challenged” by Pakistani CAP. “They tried to enter from Bahawalpur-Okara and were forced to go back,” he said. According to Ghafoor, “the third (Indian) CAP which was bigger in number made it from Muzaffarabad and they were challenged and were forced to return”. 2*Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor@OfficialDGISPR Payload of hastily escaping Indian aircrafts fell in open.

4. Pakistani Army confirmed attack on Twitter with pictures of craters outside the terrorist training facility. They claimed that bombs missed target and damaged only one civilian who suffered a gash on his forehead and a few trees. “Payload of hastily escaping Indian aircrafts fell in open. pic.twitter.com/8drYtNGMsm”

5. This video shows house of a local “civilian” close to the terrorist camp. It is a bit odd as it shows a small crater about 25-30 meters downhill and narrator claims that the whole house has been severely damaged.https://youtu.be/qVC6VxQepzU

Actual Proofs:Following are some videos and pictures which tell a different story.

This video was uploaded on 8th March by a Pakistani media outlet. It shows a senior Pakistani army officer in a village meeting consoling family members of some (200) dead people. Some roughly translated lines below:https://youtu.be/0WJG5990ds0

Whoever fights alongside rulers of land in name of jihad is fighting for jihad.

Yesterday 200 people died. It was written in their fate, not ours.

Your father is not dead, he is alive. We don’t call him dead,

So this Pakistani army man is definitely admitting that 200 or more “good jihadis” got killed in one go.

2. Indian government and armed forces have release very little information till now. Maybe it’ll change later as it did with Uri strikes. But as of now, one major statement made is that Indian intelligence had detected around 300 mobile phone signals in the terrorist camp. 4*

3. Following interview with some locals deflate official Pakistani claims

a. Access to whole area has been completely blocked off for outsiders as well as locals.b. Pakistani authorities are prohibiting any information leaks. For this, they’ve blocked internet, enforced no go zones and are actively warning people against talking to anyone.

1. IAF Mirage 2000s did attack atleast one target at Balakot. Other two possible targets were Chakoti and Muzaffarabad. Both are near to LoC in J&K

2. Earlier reports said that terrorist camp was hit using “1000 kg bombs”. Later it was revealed to be Spice, which is actually a guidance kit for 2000, 1000 and 500 pound bombs in Indian inventory. I believe that it was Spice 1000 used for 1000 lbs (450 kg) bombs which can have 200 kgs of high explosives. A single 1000 kg bomb will have around 450 kgs of explosives which will blow off most of hill top. Considering that avoiding collateral damage was one major mission objective, it’s unlikely that 1000 kg bombs were used.

3. According to local witness accounts, 4-5 bombs were dropped. It should be pretty obvious that these smart bombs usually don’t miss. Even if we believe story of that single injured civilian whose house was damaged, there are still 3-4 other bombs which found their mark. Their impact points have not been made public by Pakistan and access blocked off.

4. There have been atleast 200 causalities including some terrorists, their trainers as well as regular Pakistani army. Pakistan is doing everything in it’s power to hide it. We’ll have to wait for more information to be released by Indian government to have a reasonably accurate number and actual impact.

India should also declare a couple of Brhamos as non-state actors. Babus can later say something like "Saar it suddenly launched by itself and hit random targets in Pindi onlee. SDRE jugaad technology, what to do".