No one is telling you to fly. In fact, we are asking you to play the game the way you want, but we don't get the same courtesy from your side that keeps telling us "haha, no flying, you should just quit!"...

Yeah I want to play the game with others, as is supposed to be for a fucking MMO, but clearly you treat this as a glorified single player game, so you can do whatever you want, clearly the game devs agree with me and um...the oh wait, yeah right, no one agrees with you other than the other ppl who treat this as a glorified single player game.

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Originally Posted by urasim

You mean "since it's an MMO, no one should have the right to tell anyone how to play, and there are many different ways to play in an MMO"? Or, are you really telling me that there is only one way to play an MMO, and that one way is the one that you have dictated?

How bout we narrow this down from MMO to WoW and "you have dictated" to "Blizzard has dictated, cuz it's their fucking game" and you make sense finally.

Yeah I want to play the game with others, as is supposed to be for a fucking MMO, but clearly you treat this as a glorified single player game, so you can do whatever you want, clearly the game devs agree with me and um...the oh wait, yeah right, no one agrees with you other than the other ppl who treat this as a glorified single player game.

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How bout we narrow this down from MMO to WoW and "you have dictated" to "Blizzard has dictated, cuz it's their fucking game" and you make sense finally.

Blizzard just said in an interview that the playerbase dictates whether flying will be in or not. I guess you didn't watch it.

Flying didn't remove people from the open world. The queue system did.

The rest of your post, yeah, something shady about selling a game with a flying mount that might never be used in that game as advertised, and expecting players to go on this wild ride of experimentation with them.

Yeah, they still talk about how you can swoop down from the sky on that mount in advertising. It's gross, really. Just gross.

Yeah I want to play the game with others, as is supposed to be for a fucking MMO, but clearly you treat this as a glorified single player game, so you can do whatever you want, clearly the game devs agree with me and um...the oh wait, yeah right, no one agrees with you other than the other ppl who treat this as a glorified single player game.

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How bout we narrow this down from MMO to WoW and "you have dictated" to "Blizzard has dictated, cuz it's their fucking game" and you make sense finally.

They haven't really dictated anything though, we are essentially in the same place we were 9 months ago, with the 'we think we can make better content without flight' comments.

It is fine to be happy with this new negative leaning stance, but imo you shouldn't be counting all your chickens just yet...

Like the cracker fed to the starving man, WoD was handed to the loyal player, starved of new content for 14 months in MoP.
At first, it was the best thing he had ever tasted, this new meal, but as his stomach started to grumble again, he realised the cracker was indeed just a hollow snack. He soon turned back to the cracker giver, eyes wide, open palms extended, an enquiring look as they asked, "please sir, Can I have some more?".

Blizzard just said in an interview that the playerbase dictates whether flying will be in or not. I guess you didn't watch it.

Flying didn't remove people from the open world. The queue system did.

Yeah, the playerbase dictates, but their reasoning for removing flying is sound. The queue system is not sound for an MMO, just efficient, and that's garbage, but the tears will flow if you ask to change it or remove it to make it any less convenient. What's that tell you?

Ppl don't give a fuck about this game, only about what makes shit more convenient for them. Queue is a problem, and on that same line of convenience, so is fucking flying, LFR, etc.

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Originally Posted by CheeseSandwich

They haven't really dictated anything though, we are essentially in the same place we were 9 months ago, with the 'we think we can make better content without flight' comments.

It is fine to be happy with this new negative leaning stance, but imo you shouldn't be counting all your chickens just yet...

I'm not happy nor sad. I adapted to triage healing, I adapted to no portals, I adapted when triage healing was removed, and I will adapt no matter what happens to flying. Unlike half of the people in this fucking thread.

Also, they just made a sticky thread to get feedback on fixing of flight paths. This says 2 things to me, 1/ they never actually initially planned to restrict flight when designing those flight paths, and 2/ the fact they want to get more focused feedback to fix them now, this late in the dev cycle, means they have made a decision in the negative to bringing flight back.

Lore already made post, saying it's only happening now, cause before that Blizz was not finished designing quest lines and placing quest hubs.

I'm not happy nor sad. I adapted to triage healing, I adapted to no portals, I adapted when triage healing was removed, and I will adapt no matter what happens to flying. Unlike half of the people in this fucking thread.

Cool, and I respect that opinion, but to other people, not being able to fly is to much of a change (possibly along with other changes) to their chosen game play style to warrant continuing to play. They don't feel the need to adapt to this change, or the need and benefits of this change hasn't been explained thoroughly enough.

The people that disagree and agree with this change are discussing the potential ramifications of said topic before it happens, that is the entire purpose of this thread.

The differing opinions range the full spectrum of attitudes, and if Blizz would actually make an argument and decision either way rather than let the community rip at each other for an indefinite amount time, surely the needless community unrest could be resolved and we could decide one way or the other if buying the CE for the fucking flying mount is worth it or not, let alone the expac.

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Originally Posted by Ninepenny

Lore already made post, saying it's only happening now, cause before that Blizz was not finished designing quest lines and placing quest hubs.

Yeah, but do they need feed back to know that players want direct, connected, a->b flight paths?

Like the cracker fed to the starving man, WoD was handed to the loyal player, starved of new content for 14 months in MoP.
At first, it was the best thing he had ever tasted, this new meal, but as his stomach started to grumble again, he realised the cracker was indeed just a hollow snack. He soon turned back to the cracker giver, eyes wide, open palms extended, an enquiring look as they asked, "please sir, Can I have some more?".

World of Warcraft Dread Raven Mount and Dread Hatchling Pet — Descend from the skies on the back of a black-winged Dread Raven mount, a mortal progeny of Anzu. Then devour your prey in your next pet battle with the adorably ferocious Dread Hatchling.

Doesnt matter what side your on, thats kinda messed up to make people pay extra for a mount they cant use.

World of Warcraft Dread Raven Mount and Dread Hatchling Pet — Descend from the skies on the back of a black-winged Dread Raven mount, a mortal progeny of Anzu. Then devour your prey in your next pet battle with the adorably ferocious Dread Hatchling.

Doesnt matter what side your on, thats kinda messed up to make people pay extra for a mount they cant use.

Most the anti flight folks will say "you can use it as a ground mount"

If I had a cookie I would give you one you are the first anti flight person to point that out.

I am still asking what does taking away flight bring to the game at max level, especially for PVE players.

Cool, and I respect that opinion, but to other people, not being able to fly is to much of a change (possibly along with other changes) to their chosen game play style to warrant continuing to play. They don't feel the need to adapt to this change, or the need and benefits of this change hasn't been explained thoroughly enough.

The people that disagree and agree with this change are discussing the potential ramifications of said topic before it happens, that is the entire purpose of this thread.

The differing opinions range the full spectrum of attitudes, and if Blizz would actually make an argument and decision either way rather than let the community rip at each other for an indefinite amount time, surely the needless community unrest could be resolved and we could decide one way or the other if buying the CE for the fucking flying mount is worth it or not, let alone the expac.

Why should I care if they choose not to play the game I want to play? People can't play Dark Souls because some find it impossible to play games with a challenge, and I would rather play a difficult game like that with like minded people. For example, I'd like to play Dota with people who have been playing Dota for a longer period of time, not brand new players, just like how level gold/platinum League players would like to play with other people their level.

I want to play WoW because I like running on the floor, and want to play with other ppl who run on the floor, steal mobs from me, I steal mobs from them, run to dungeon openings, fight over it, don't queue for LFR and dungeons OR queue from outside the instance itself, basically everything that is fucking inconvenient. I want triage healing, and to play with other people who CC actively, etc. I never had blades of azzinoth and I want people to know that the people who DO have the blades of azzinoth have spent more time/work to get in with a guild to get it. I like Mythic, I hate recolored weapons handed out to people who don't work for it. I shouldn't have a legendary item when I log in 3 times a month (and two of my toons, Dragoncurry, and Phatthealz, have it) so it makes no sense to me.

As you can see, in the slew of fucking problems I have with the game, flying is extremely low on that list. It isn't even a factor. If it's a factor for you, I don't know wtf game you're playing but it's not a game that's trying to make this game better. If you QUIT over flying and not LFR or Dungeon queues, then just LOL whatever dude.

EVEN IN THE MIDST OF ALL THIS, I haven't shoved my shit down your throats, despite my severe dislike for it because it's fine if you want to feel as though you earned some shit by playing twice a week, but yet you are telling me flying is fine because just you like it? That's the same thought process that brought the queue system in. Fuck guilds, fuck organized raiding, there's LFR, fuck community, fuck server reps, and I won't fuck w that. Sorry.

Note: He looks up and to the right while saying this. Which usually indicates lying.

lol..really? Well, he must be lying then!

Immersion is subjective. What he thinks is immersive someone else might not. Stop using immersion as an argument.

it is an argument, there is common themes that make games immersive. If there wasn't then game devs would have no idea how to design with immersion in mind.

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Originally Posted by Maneo

A. That isn't combat. That is a annoyance at best. You must be the type of person that would call a 10 year old hitting you and you putting him in his room a fight.

B. I have already quit and had my pre order refunded

C. I can't just ignore them cause, well I can't do a archeology dig, engage in a pet battle etc etc cause those mobs are attempting to hit me. That isn't combat that is annoying I could stand there for 10 minutes doing nothing and these leveling mobs still wouldn't be able to kill me.

D. What I find amusing is the people towing the Blizzard line at this point when it is clear the removal of flight adds NOTHING to the game or game play.

As if you wouldn't be complaining if those mobs were all hard. Admit it, they're going to always be tedious and annoying to you until they drop something you want.

Yeah bro that isn't combat. Just like how DPSing in a raid isn't combat since the boss isn't hitting you and you're just spamming a rotation that you would do against a dummy but just strafing left and right. Yo in fact, why even do the bosses over and over again when it's not a challenge the 10th time in. We should just have an auto loot feature since we've already done it 10 times and got the "Yo I'm sick of your game so gimme this shit already achievement" . I should be allowed to play how I want tbh.

Why should I care if they choose not to play the game I want to play? People can't play Dark Souls because some find it impossible to play games with a challenge, and I would rather play a difficult game like that with like minded people. For example, I'd like to play Dota with people who have been playing Dota for a longer period of time, not brand new players, just like how level gold/platinum League players would like to play with other people their level.

I want to play WoW because I like running on the floor, and want to play with other ppl who run on the floor, steal mobs from me, I steal mobs from them, run to dungeon openings, fight over it, don't queue for LFR and dungeons OR queue from outside the instance itself, basically everything that is fucking inconvenient. I want triage healing, and to play with other people who CC actively, etc.

You should care because it will ultimately effect your game play choice in some way. If you want to play a game like Dark Souls or Dota with uber players, fine, but the majority of WoW players aren't hardcore inclined.

Look at the H raiding completion rates, players by and large lack the will, motivation, skill or desire (or any and all combinations of) to do H raiding in WoW, yet still pay a sub and do whatever they want. Just because you don't care for there actions, doesn't mean they are irrelevant. They likely don't care for H raiding, either.

So why did you want to play WoW for the last 8 years, if you knew flight was a thing? Surely you should of moved on by now?

In every max level area in WoW now, in expacs that include flight, the ability to steal mobs is there, because you can not engage that content and remain flying. You fly to the area to steal the mobs, you don't fly to the area and watch it from above thinking "I wish I could do that".

Running to dungeon openings, the fights there, the queues are not the fault of flying. When DS was released, before LFR started, the fights inside CoT on my PvE server were epic. And we could fly in that whole cavern.

As you can see, in the slew of fucking problems I have with the game, flying is extremely low on that list. It isn't even a factor. If it's a factor for you, I don't know wtf game you're playing but it's not a game that's trying to make this game better. If you QUIT over flying and not LFR or Dungeon queues, then just LOL whatever dude.

I have to ask, why are you apparently so vehemently opposed to people's negative reactions to the loss of flight? What made you enter this discussion to rub other's nose in the shit if you don't give a fuck, when it is obvious other people do?

And nah I quit over the lack of drive shown by Blizz to deliver new content that I didn't have to pay extra for on the shop.

Last edited by CheeseSandwich; 2014-08-15 at 05:40 PM.

Like the cracker fed to the starving man, WoD was handed to the loyal player, starved of new content for 14 months in MoP.
At first, it was the best thing he had ever tasted, this new meal, but as his stomach started to grumble again, he realised the cracker was indeed just a hollow snack. He soon turned back to the cracker giver, eyes wide, open palms extended, an enquiring look as they asked, "please sir, Can I have some more?".

Yeah, the playerbase dictates, but their reasoning for removing flying is sound. The queue system is not sound for an MMO, just efficient, and that's garbage, but the tears will flow if you ask to change it or remove it to make it any less convenient. What's that tell you?

Ppl don't give a fuck about this game, only about what makes shit more convenient for them. Queue is a problem, and on that same line of convenience, so is fucking flying, LFR, etc.

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I'm not happy nor sad. I adapted to triage healing, I adapted to no portals, I adapted when triage healing was removed, and I will adapt no matter what happens to flying. Unlike half of the people in this fucking thread.

So your one of those anti convenience people who like to waste their time standing around for most of their game time.

Sorry but I have other things to do. Standing around and trying to find a tank/healer for UBRS during Vanilla for hours isn't my idea of good gameplay. Oh guess what the Healer "had to go" right before the first pull so I better go back to stormwind and find another!

LFR and the Queue were probably the best things to happen in this game - in my opinion.

So your one of those anti convenience people who like to waste their time standing around for most of their game time.

Sorry but I have other things to do. Standing around and trying to find a tank/healer for UBRS during Vanilla for hours isn't my idea of good gameplay. Oh guess what the Healer "had to go" right before the first pull so I better go back to stormwind and find another!

LFR and the Queue were probably the best things to happen in this game - in my opinion.

Hahahhahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahah, you mean I'm one of those people that like to talk and get groups going while YOU stand around doing nothing, asking me to find a tank/healer faster. Now that you have a Queue system, you can just keep bitching like the DPS in our grps always did only this time while you wait around and let an automated machine do it for you except there's one slight oversight:

Queue only saved easy dungeons, CATA dungeons proved that incompetent people still remained incompetent even when convenience was handed to them. It was never about saving time, it was about giving you shit-easy content anyone could faceroll (aka the LFR / Queue) systems. Best thing to happen to this game? Sure.

Hahahhahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahah, you mean I'm one of those people that like to talk and get groups going while YOU stand around doing nothing, asking me to find a tank/healer faster. Now that you have a Queue system, you can just keep bitching like the DPS in our grps always did only this time while you wait around and let an automated machine do it for you except there's one slight oversight:

Queue only saved easy dungeons, CATA dungeons proved that incompetent people still remained incompetent even when convenience was handed to them. It was never about saving time, it was about giving you shit-easy content anyone could faceroll (aka the LFR / Queue) systems. Best thing to happen to this game? Sure.

You don't know anything about me nor do you now what your talking about.

It is sad that you like to throw away hours sitting in chat. Sorry your real life is mediocre.

Once again you want people to play your way. You don't have to use LFR if you don't like it.

World of Warcraft Dread Raven Mount and Dread Hatchling Pet — Descend from the skies on the back of a black-winged Dread Raven mount, a mortal progeny of Anzu. Then devour your prey in your next pet battle with the adorably ferocious Dread Hatchling.

Doesnt matter what side your on, thats kinda messed up to make people pay extra for a mount they cant use.

Yeah it's really kind of awful to advertise it that way. "Descend from the skies! (but we're not mentioning on this box that you can only do it in the content nobody cares about anymore)"

Sure, it can be used as a ground mount, but that's a pretty lousy extra since it's not that different from the mount from Sethekk Halls, and anyone who wanted that mount probably farmed it already.

Finding people was not usually a problem, only time it was was when you were looking for a certain class with CC, but it's not like that'd matter now. Even in a BC private server with only around 500 people on you can find a group for almost anything. I wouldn't have a problem with LFG if you still had to travel to the dungeon and if it only grouped you with people on your server(I may be lenient on that one, it could at least try to group you with people in your sever if it doesn't already). MoP heroic 5 mans and scenarios were a giant joke. Cone to think of it it's the only expansion where u truly despised doing 5 mans. Even running through the dungeon like you were an OP monster wasn't fun because it was so undertuned.
The decline of 5 man quality since LFG(other than maybe Cata, but of course the QQ ruined that) is reason enough for me to oppose LFG. As for LFR, with flex here now, it needs to go. End game raids need to maintain at least a shred of dignity.

This is all related(flying, LFG, LFR etc), it's sacrificing quality for convenience. That's why everything you do feels so tedious. It's not because it is, it's because we're so OP relative to it that it just feels like it's in our way.

Imagine if they were removing flying and you still had to run to dungeons, on a 40% speed mount no less. Some people would have a heart attack.

If it is that big of a deal that you can't fly, do us all a favor and quit.

WoW has some of the most entitled, whiny cry babies in gaming history and if the no flying policy put in place by Blizz gets rid of that pathetic element of players, it will be the best measure they have ever implemented.

You should care because it will ultimately effect your game play choice in some way. If you want to play a game like Dark Souls or Dota with uber players, fine, but the majority of WoW players aren't hardcore inclined.

Look at the H raiding completion rates, players by and large lack the will, motivation, skill or desire (or any and all combinations of) to do H raiding in WoW, yet still pay a sub and do whatever they want. Just because you don't care for there actions, doesn't mean they are irrelevant. They likely don't care for H raiding, either.

So why did you want to play WoW for the last 8 years, if you knew flight was a thing? Surely you should of moved on by now?

In every max level area in WoW now, in expacs that include flight, the ability to steal mobs is there, because you can not engage that content and remain flying. You fly to the area to steal the mobs, you don't fly to the area and watch it from above thinking "I wish I could do that".

Running to dungeon openings, the fights there, the queues are not the fault of flying. When DS was released, before LFR started, the fights inside CoT on my PvE server were epic. And we could fly in that whole cavern.

I have to ask, why are you apparently so vehemently opposed to people's negative reactions to the loss of flight? What made you enter this discussion to rub other's nose in the shit if you don't give a fuck, when it is obvious other people do?

And nah I quit over the lack of drive shown by Blizz to deliver new content that I didn't have to pay extra for on the shop.

I'll answer the questions in order.

No it won't. If WoW's sub rate drops to 5 million, or 4 million, it doesn't affect me because the population that come back for the content will remain the same as long as it remains compelling. MIND YOU, I play with plenty of mediocre players in both of those games as well, and in Dota, I'm just mediocre myself, and I can still bring myself to enjoy it. What I do not prescribe to is people who "got shit to do, so can't bring myself to spend any time" mentality.

I agree, a majority of players don't raid at a Heroic level, or raid at all. And that's fine to me. But if you want to argue with the sound reasoning of the removal of a feature (aka having the relevance of a game world that you interact with), then I don't care what your preference is, it's a personal problem, not something with the game itself.

As to why I wanted to play even while flight was a thing then? Because, as stated above, even though I severely dislike certain aspects of the game, I am not interested in having a crusade about things I dislike when I can focus on the positive as opposed to the negative for my experience. However, when other people I am interacting with in the game act in a selfish way that may affect the direction the game is being developed, I'm obviously going to oppose that to some degree. For example with the various queueing systems (which I like, but needs to be modified imo), LFR, etc.

You can make anything work with flying. I don't want possibilities. I want no options. This has to be a guarantee of interaction.

FINALLY, you assume I don't give a fuck. I do. What I don't give a fuck about is your threats to unsub, or "see what's gonna happen in 6.1" etc. What I don't give a fuck about is shitty alternative ideas like lowering the flight ceiling, slowing down flight, or other bullshit. If there's no compelling content for flying (and no storm peaks is not a good example), then fuck it.