I've been meditating for about 4 or 5 months, and meditating daily for probably about a month, and a question keeps popping up in my mind. "Why Meditate?" I meditate because of my desire to be happier/a better person. But I think this holds me back, because I want to attain something from my meditation. I always hear that you shouldn't aspire to attain anything/have goals with meditation, as they'll ultimately hold you back in your meditation. This makes the question of why meditate come up in my mind. If fruitful meditation comes from meditating without goals or a wanting of some attainment, where is the drive to meditate? I don't think I've explained this too well, but hopefully you can all fill in the gaps, and show me where my wrong view lies/answer this question.

Thank you for your reply. Does wanting your meditation to aid in the Eightfold Path not hinder your mediation by way of wanting? Or is desire used skillfully considered to not have the negative ramifications that a desire such as something like sexual lust would have?

I think you've gotten some conflicting advice on meditation floating around, which is causing some dissonance. Instructions come in sets, rather than in piecemeal items, and so the basic structure of meditation and how it integrates with the rest of ones living is an important consideration.

The whole of sila (conduct) involves setting up favorable conditions for this wholesomely-integrated (samma) effort, and the practice of satisampajanna and satipatthana throughout ones day forms a foundation for transitioning from satipatthana to seated anapanasati(-samadhi).

The culmination is fundamentally the suppression of the five hindrances and the fulfillment by development of the seven factors of awakening.

This is for the purpose of nibbana.

"And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

"And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]

Thank you for your reply. Does wanting your meditation to aid in the Eightfold Path not hinder your mediation by way of wanting? Or is desire used skillfully considered to not have the negative ramifications that a desire such as something like sexual lust would have?

"'This body comes into being through craving. And yet it is by relying on craving that craving is to be abandoned.'

In other words, the desire to be free leads to freedom from desire.But regarding lust-

"This body comes into being through sexual intercourse. Sexual intercourse is to be abandoned. With regard to sexual intercourse, the Buddha declares the cutting off of the bridge.

As I see it, meditating with no goal does not mean meditating with no goal. It simply means that when you actually sit down to meditate, you aren't preoccupied with some other thing besides the meditation or meditation object itself, which takes your attention off of the actual meditation you are doing right now. It does not mean there is no reason to meditate to begin with.

Seems to me that "Don't meditate with a goal" is instruction usually given to people who say things like "I did not have any good meditation today! I was just distracted the whole time and didn't feel what I was expecting to feel! My mind did not become quiet like I was expecting it to become! My thinking did not stop like it was supposed to! What happened?! What did I do wrong! etc, etc." And Of course brooding like that only serves to give you even more distractions. So people say "Don't meditate with a goal" for the purpose of helping people stop the unnecessary and counterproductive brooding over what did or did not happen over that 1/2 hour you were sitting on that cushion this morning. It's not talking about the "big picture" reasons to meditate, which of course is to gain insight leading to enlightenment and end suffering, etc.

PsychedelicSunSet wrote:I've been meditating for about 4 or 5 months, and meditating daily for probably about a month, and a question keeps popping up in my mind. "Why Meditate?" I meditate because of my desire to be happier/a better person. But I think this holds me back, because I want to attain something from my meditation. I always hear that you shouldn't aspire to attain anything/have goals with meditation, as they'll ultimately hold you back in your meditation. This makes the question of why meditate come up in my mind. If fruitful meditation comes from meditating without goals or a wanting of some attainment, where is the drive to meditate?

Could you please give an exact quote of the Sutta where the Buddha stated this.

With metta,Chris

---The trouble is that you think you have time------Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe------It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

Could you please give an exact quote of the Sutta where the Buddha stated this.

With metta,Chris

No such, I think; we can take it in the spirit of Mahayana Sutras, maybe.

"And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

"And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]

seeker242 wrote: [meditating with no goal] simply means that when you actually sit down to meditate, you aren't preoccupied with some other thing besides the meditation or meditation object itself, which takes your attention off of the actual meditation you are doing right now.

This is really the essence of it. Meditation might make you happier, but at least initially, it more likely will show you the obstacles that are preventing your happiness, and give you the freedom to change those. If we sit and want X, Y or Z to happen and it doesn't, we get easily frustrated and lose sight of what we're actually trying to do--that is; develop a deeper understanding of the three characteristics.

I've found it really helpful to stop thinking about goals and start thinking in terms of 'direction,' keeping in sight the end of the road, but focusing more on the steps I need to take right now.

Trust that your meditation practice is doing what it should, don't get frustrated if you have weeks or months where you feel crummy (you'd feel crummier if you weren't meditating!) or you can't seem to focus (you'd focus worse if you weren't meditating!). Just keep moving forward, one sit at a time, one breath after the other.

I always hear that you shouldn't aspire to attain anything/have goals with meditation, as they'll ultimately hold you back in your meditation.

My understanding of what the Buddha taught when he admonished his monks to go, and meditate; go do jhana, was that there is a necessity for the practice of meditation with the goal of concentration and the cultivation of insight. Meditation does have a goal, and it requires skill and effort, but not the kind of goal that causes one to try to squeeze insights from the mind like blood from a stone. The idea is to cultivate the ability to settle the mind, to calm and center focus the mind and then to contemporaneously cultivate insight into the workings of the mind. With this Right Effort, Concentration and MIndfulness, we develop the fertile ground for the comprehension of impermanence, not-self and dukkha/sukkah...leading to release from dukkha and attachment to unskillful ideas.

What I am expressing above is what I have gathered from the teaching of wise Theravada teachers. I have sat in years past with some Zen sanghas where there is much emphasis on "just sitting" and sitting with no goal. Some sitting in these sesshins complain that they sit for hours staring at a wall...for nothing. "That's it" claims the Roshi. "Do nothing. No goals!" This kind of practice may approximate samatha calming meditation, but it is not consistent with the samatha/vipassana practices, nor does it seem to me remotely consistent with the type of meditation that the Buddha encouraged in the Suttas.

I started meditating because my mind was not well disciplined and I saw at my first Vipassana retreat I was causing a lot of suffering for myself and those around me from constant thoughtless reactions to data that I liked and didn't like. I wanted to be a better mother, level headed and thoughtful, that was the main reason why I started practice and become a Buddhist. Also the Buddhist virtues and a well laid out path were given, something I sorely missed in my education and upbringing. It's been several years since I started meditating and study. I can honestly say I found what I needed to live and good life and be a good person and so much more. Meditation didn't bring me peace, but that's my conditioning. I saw I had a lot of work to do cleaning up my life and sorting through what I needed and didn't need in this life to walk the Eightfold Path. Meditation gave me the discipline and a few powerful insights to face what I needed to do to move on and let go of the past and accept responsibility for me life. Cleaning house is never very peaceful from my experience. I truly believe each person is different regarding their conditioning, they need a teacher to help them sort through what kind of meditation and teachings they need. From what I've seen over the years the virtues coupled with meditation suited to my conditioning really helped smooth out the path and bring wonderful friends to help one out.

This is your practice and I hope my input will not confuse you, this is a very personal experience.

Form is like a glob of foam; feeling, a bubble; perception, a mirage; fabrications, a banana tree; consciousness, a magic trick this has been taught by the Kinsman of the Sun. Phena Sutta: Foam