Understanding the DPS changes.

Equipped Weapon Stats
Let's have a look at how equipping a weapon to a survivor effects it's stats.

As you can see - weapons are affected quite a bit by the survivors they're assigned to. For the medic, you can see that the ammo mod he has on is increasing his base damage but his accuracy is very low.

The Recon on the other hand is a higher level than the medic, he's also specialized with this weapon type, adding 10% to his damage and accuracy.

Survivor Skills
The skills of survivors equipping weapons affect weapon DPS dramatically. In the case above, the ranged combat skill of the Recon is almost double that of the Medic. In these extreme cases, the result is obvious.

Skill with a weapon type only affects accuracy.

The Old Formula
In the old DPS formula, we ignored things like bursts, reload times and capacity of weapons. The formula went something like this:

DPS = Average Damage * Attacks Per Second * Accuracy

The New Formula
The new formula takes into account burst fire and capacity as well as reload times. This provides a better average DPS and gives more precise DPS for weapons with high fire rates and low capacity:

Hey don't sweat the nerf - I spent a bunch of fuel getting some brutal BLs and was worried too...until I saw how a pack of zombies can break reloads for DAYS. I sent a fighter out on a solo mission with an M16 and couldn't get close to the 2.5 seconds between him and a pack of sprinters to allow for an uninterrupted reload. You may not be able to one-shot everything in site post-update, but for solo missions, BLs will still clear a group of zeds no problem, and your fighter won't be running around like an idiot for five minutes because he/she can't reload under pressure.

BBB is still king of melee... Before the nerf it was just ridiculous! If you get around on the forums a bit you will even see that the nerf was announced by officials because the previous buff to that weapon was to big!

Love the update, don't love the illegitimate complaints about it however. Other than the DPS recalculation, bruisers, improved melee, etc. there is nothing different about the game. Hell, going all guns in missions is still viable if you can handle a bit of micro with your survivors (Until the ammo update of course).

We know about the class specialization bonuses, but are there now class penalties for using non-specialized weapons?
The HC by itself already had 99% accuracy (1st image), but when the medic has it equipped, accuracy drops way down to less than 60%. And neither character has an accuracy gear mod equipped.

If there are penalties for using the wrong weapon type, its the first I ever heard of it . . .

Also, since people are just crying about the supposed nerf of DPS, can you all post a before and after pic of an identical item. I.e., Lvl18 M24 pre- and post-update. (I know you all have a backup of v1.08 lurking in your computers there, somewhere.)
Just so people can see that the DPS CALCULATION changed, and not the weapon stats themselves.

Just to shut the damn whiners up.
(I understand the changes, but some of the more mentally-challenged players just don't get it.)

I agree with the origional question here, which remains unanswered. are there class penalties now? (yes we know the medic has a skill of 5, but the base stats for the weapon (while in your invintory) are 99% accuracy, whereas the medic is much lower)

- The UMP-45 (and AK-74) and the pick hammer get much less than the indicated bonus from APS modifiers.
- Most melee weapons and the M24 are within the margin of rounding to the indicated bonus from APS modifiers.
- The M1911 (and Tauron) get much more than the indicated bonus from APS modifiers.

xanghel;
i don't like the new DPS calculation at all.... (I love them thank you Con, now noobs can know the best weapons to equip with ease, advantage gone! )

Also i don't like the fact that now the attack speed has been replaced by attacks per second...it is very confusing....we all were used with the old display and now all is changed. (Attacks per Second actually make more sense – never understood what attack speed meant or how it worked except for guessing faster or slows with 0 time comparison!

Also the fractionar range like 12.34 is very annoying as well...i liked more how it was with integer numbers. (I too would like the rounded up version so we can fire longer ranges! [I.e. 12.34 = 13])

Also the dps seems way to low , maybe it is correct , but compared to what it was before now it all seems strange... (Before it was exactly the same - use the same weapon on the same PvE raid (Not the balanced ones) and it will work EXATLY the same way! Same damage per the 5min will be done! Except now we can tell without a calculator which weapons do more damage per 5min PvE raid!)

i probably need 1 - 2 weeks to adjust myself to the new system but i don't know if i'll stay on this game for that long....since all that dot something something is making us dizzy. (I’m staying, I’m not dizzy, makes way more sense to me now thank you Con!)

this should be fun , we should not stay all the time with a calculator near us to see which weapon is better...there is no clarity or simplicity. (Exactly what the new DPS calculation are for you don’t need a calculator anymore!!! Now everyone has the same advantage in knowing which weapon is higher in DPS!)

And by the way i am a programmer (html, vb, actionscript etc) and i still dont like all this . (Uhm, don’t really know what that has to do with anything but I’m Rocket Scientist and I love it!)

I cannot understand why somebody would complain "I don't like the new calculation" and "it seems very low". The explanation is quite clear, and it's obvious that the previous numbers were grossly inflated, and not by a flat percentage, but differently for various weapons. What's not to like about seeing the REAL numbers? What's to like about numbers that were just plain wrong?

And I like the precise numbers more. No more complaints about "how come that it says I get the bonus, but the value is the same"

Take 7 the the second power times it by three figure out what square root is and hope there's pie left. Equals too hard for so little fun. Rule one (K)eep (I)t (S)imple (S)tupid. Shoot till they die end of drill.

Just a note — you sneaky (maybe more-so insidious) guys said in your earlier preview to the patch/change that you wouldn't change the DPS of weapons/guns, but you actually did! (not that I have a problem with that alone — in fact weapon balance is an important thing)
particularly you substantially nerfed the M1911 for some crazy reason. You guys don't even mention the specific weapons you've changed, or by how much — that seems a bit disingenuous/uncaring.

That "some crazy reason" was "because it was way too strong for it's level". I don't find that crazy at all, I find it sensible. All gear should be more or less balanced, There shouldn't be any silver bullets good for 10+ levels, because existence of these makes the game boring and loads of gear on higher levels a waste of time and space.

The skills of survivors equipping weapons affect weapon DPS dramatically. . . the ranged combat skill of the Recon is almost double that of the Medic.

Well, that solved my question as to why my Leader had higher damage with the new Survival Axe he's holding.

It doesn't look like much of an increase to me at first, but seeing enough of posts about the zombie hordes at higher levels, I guess that extra damage is going to help in cleaning up the stronger enemies off my compound.

Glad you didn't forget about the lvl 20+ survivors. Thanks.

P.S. Also another good reason to increase my Leader's fighting skill too. I was already thinking of dumping some of it into the medic skill.
Heal fast, get back into battle faster. :P

There's something that I find being confusing and counterintuitive : why should the damage range vary according to the survivor who uses the weapon ?

In your example the basic rifle damage range is 27-38.
If used by a medic it turns to 29-40 (with a +5,8% bonus from the ammo).
When used by a recon it moves to 32-45 (without any ammo bonus).

How a bullet coming from the same rifle could cause more damage when the survivor is more skilled ?

Let's take an example. Imagine DZ is a car racing game. Each character has is own racing skill and can drive various cars. How could a Ferrari with an engine factory limited to 160 mph could be driven up to 190 mph by a talented pilot, despite its 160 mph absolute limit ?

To me, the only characteristics which should vary upon survivor’s skill are accuracy and range (which makes sense I think). If you want to add an impact on damage as well then let’s say that a skilled survivor chance of making a critical hit is higher than an unskilled one.

Another nice addition would be an effect on reload speed. I guess when you are specialized with a weapon you’are able to reload it slightly quicker than a user who isn’t familiar with this weapon.

Of course it's not super-realistic, but you might explain it as the ability to put the bullets where they matter. That is, Zed generally don't really mind losing a bit more of soft flesh, so the skill in killing zed would in reality (well, in fiction of course) rely on your ability to hit spots that matter more (head, joints...)

In other words, do not treat damage as solely destructive power of the bullet, but rather the ability to cause damage. Yea, it sounds more like critical hits :), but for the sake of the gameplay, I don't really mind higher average bullet damage from better shooters - as the game in itself does not worry about balistics and realism in damage modelling.

I mean, your worry would be rightfully placed in a high-realism simulator. Steel panthers world at war comes to mind, although it's a different genre. The tanks fighting there take ballistics very seriously, calculating exact angle of impact and exact slope of armor and armor penetration of the round used... in THAT kind of game, it'd be horrible if a better shooter could penetrate thicker armor. In here it doesn't really matter, right?

Your average medic will shoot the smg with closed eyes, pray and spray style, and most of his bullets will cause minimal damage, hitting unimportant bits of the enemy. Your recon will shoot off the limbs, your melee fighter will slice the neck. On average, he'll do a better job with the tool.

but you might explain it as the ability to put the bullets where they matter

This should be covered by accuracy and critical hit (as you mentionned).

My concern isn't realism but (more or less) logic, a system which should produce predictable effects.

I've used the word counterintuitive because since the latest update I'm spending much more time in my inventory before missions. The weapons I once thought to suit the best a particular survivor and a particular mission aren't the ones I'm using now.

I have to try many combinations before I find the right equipment. And once the missions is launched I don't get the results I expected. That's why I've also used the word confusing...

The 1.09 version is more than an update. So far it makes things more difficult before and during missions. I'm level 40 now (twice the requirement for lvl 20 missions) but I don't feel the noticeable gain of ranking so "high" anymore.

I still enjoy the game and I'm still admirative about the work produced by Conartist(s).

Agree with you about the logic of it. But it's a very minor worry for me. I don't really mind whether the game will give me higher accuracy, more criticals or a plain damage boost - with auto-weapons at least, the total effect is what matters. If Con drops the damage increase and does it all with criticals, fine with me, but I won't lose any sleep over it staying as it is.

Well, level 20 missions were quite easy for me (l36) in 2man teams. Not sure how well will a level 20 leader with level 14 survivors do, but I didn't find it confusing at all. My recons took sniper rifle with ammo mod for street, 1hitting all normal zed, and they took a CR-553 into security, again with ammo mod, and did a good job there as well.

Well, I play now just like the ammo was already limited, to get ready for the forthcoming update. I mean I don't use guns as I used to. I'm experimenting different combinations and so far I found that a 100% melee team is better than a mixed one (gun + melee).

hey guys.. I get the damage modifiers.. and the trying to get more melee weapons into the game play.. when the zombies hit you know theirs not goign to be an ammo truck on every corner.. the problem I have is with the cr553 this is supposed to be an assault weapon(like an M-16-ak47) but it has a range of 10?? thats a submachine gun range.. I'm not sure if thats a glitch or what.. but its annoying..

The CR-553 is based upon the SIG SG 553 (CR = Commando Rifle) It has a very short barrel (8.9 Inches) Which IRL would mean the bullet exiting the rifle would be slower, and therefore has a shorter range... (But it would also have less kinetic energy, which would mean less damage.)

I just tried out the formula on a Basic M16A2 (Although not knowing the burst delay, i got a rather awkward result)

30 Capacity
47.5 Accuracy
17.5 Avg DMG
6.32 APS
2.5 Second Reload Time
(30*17.5*0.475)/((30*(6.32+0didnt know burst))+2.5) Gives me 1.25 DPS :S
Which is weird because im sure it does more, even if i knew burst delay, it would just get lower...

Has anyone else noted that none of the weapons match the formula? Even if we use the reciprocal of attacks/sec as Bryan correctly notes, The numbers come out different from the listed DPS. I am using a zero burst delay, but since the final answer comes out low in dps, there is no burst delay number that could make it work.

Hell, even the melee weapons, which do not have nearly as many variables, come out wrong.