<OL>"obviously, when it's your religion that's being slammed."</OL>It's nothing to take personally, Cellie.<br><br>The point is that there are aspects of ALL religions that are just plain stupid, unfounded in fact, worthy of ridicule or downright dangerous. On very simple inspection, there is no denying that.<br><br>But, looking a lot deeper....<br><br>The aspects of ALL of them that are being challenged have to do with believing in something which—when broken down into smaller parts, and in any other context—would be regarded as silly superstition, as silly as stepping on a sidewalk crack, breaking a mirror, or walking under a ladder. Cripes, man was never meant to fly, either. Just refer to Daedalus and Icarus for the truth on that. (Yes, I understand that it's an allegorical tale. But for centuries, many believed it at face value, because...let's face it...they weren't smart enough to interpret allegory)<br><br>Where huge, long established religious dogma differs and excels is that the fairy tale is so well crafted, by good writers and directed by people with a large measure of sociological influence, is almost inscrutably self-referential, and is presented so forcefully, that holding on to one's disbelief is made that much more difficult because there are so many others surrounding us that will berate, shun, and/or punish us because we don't bow to the peer pressure.<br><br>Guess what?<br><br>Eff that.<br><br><br><br>

The people you are referring to who say, "God told me to do it" and go out and do horrible things are usually schizophrenic "guided by voices" people who can think of no other sources for these voices so they grab onto the most easily available source, the Judeo-Christian mileu they live in. Some are brainwashed, some are just making an excuse, but I think most fall into the first category, and they were going to kill people whether they had the God excuse or not.<br><br>If the need for a deity is in our genes then why deny it? There are a lot of other needs programmed into our genes that neither you nor I deny, so why this one? If it's in our genes, then it must have some function in our survival or it would have disappeared millenia ago, no? Again, why fight it? I could go as far as to argue that some entity deliberately programmed this "need" into our genes, but I couldn't say I believe that one anyway; the elliptical nature of the argument made me write it anyway.<br><br>I hope you are back for at least the time being. We were trading recipes last I knew (okay there's worse things, raping children and blowing up people was mentioned I believe).<br><br>We are what we repeatedly do. -Aristotle

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p><br>The people you are referring to who say, "God told me to do it" and go out and do horrible things are usually schizophrenic "guided by voices" people who can think of no other sources for these voices so they grab onto the most easily available source, the Judeo-Christian mileu they live in<p><hr></blockquote><p> But don't you think if you also have a President who listens to the voice in his head which tells him to attack another country it gives these troubled people less reason to hold back? <br><br>A woman cuts the arms off her baby girl. God told her to do it. You don't think she might have thought twice if just a "crazy voice" in her head told her to do it instead of God? Even when the voice stops she watches her baby bleed out and die. Would she do that without her God telling her that this was the way for her baby to get to heaven?<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>If the need for a deity is in our genes then why deny it? <p><hr></blockquote><p> Also encoded in our gense is fear of snakes and fear of falling. Good things to be fearful of if you are living in a tree full of snakes. But now that we do not live in trees we can suppress those fears and take a ride in planes and train snakes.<br><br>As we evolve there are all sorts of genes we do not need anymore. The need for a God is one of them. We know what lightning is. We know where the sun goes at nightfall. We do not need a magician in our troop to tells us that it will be back in the morning (if we do as he says and give him the high part of the hog.)<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>

Your rebuttal rings true with me. Not that I haven't thought it myself but the way you phrased one of your points:<br><br>"But don't you think if you also has a President who listens to the voice in his head which tells him to attack another country it gives these troubled people less reason to hold back?"<br><br>really depresses me. If it weren't for the blind faith of so many people in someone who believes he is/was being spoken to by God, the whole human tragedy in Iraq and beyond would have never happened. Yeah, I know, it's just history repeating itself, but the toys we use as history repeats itself keep getting bigger and bigger...<br><br>BTW, Trog, where did that audio clip come from? The one with the comedian talking about, "normal people go to prison for such crimes, priests get access to fresh meat for such crimes". It was refreshing to hear someone unafraid to attack such hypocrisy so openly.<br><br>We are what we repeatedly do. -Aristotle

The "need for religion" is actually a "need for order"<br>IOW "a need to make sense of things" EVERYTHING!<br>There's no question:"WHY" that can ever be fully<br>satisfied by a simple; "BECAUSE"<br><br><br>"Those whom heaven helps we call the sons of heaven. They do not learn this by <br>learning. They do not work it by working. They do not reason it by using reason. <br>To let understanding stop at what cannot be understood is a high attainment. <br>Those who cannot do it will be destroyed on the lathe of heaven." ~ Chuang Tse.<br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green> [color:green]. . . _ _ _ . . .</font color=green><br>

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>To let understanding stop at what cannot be understood is a high attainment. <br>Those who cannot do it will be destroyed on the lathe of heaven." - Chuang Tse.<br><p><hr></blockquote><p>I like that. To never stop trying to raise the bar of what can be understood is in the saying just not said. A good motto to live by. It is the antithesis of religion. "Believe my magic and don't worry about what you don't know because I know all and I will keep you safe". It is as padmavyuha pointed out. Someone who needs a parent all their life to explain life easily falls for this. <br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>

Xplain's use of MacNews, AppleCentral and AppleExpo are not affiliated with Apple, Inc. MacTech is a registered trademark of Xplain Corporation. AppleCentral, MacNews, Xplain, "The journal of Apple technology", Apple Expo, Explain It, MacDev, MacDev-1, THINK Reference, NetProfessional, MacTech Central, MacTech Domains, MacForge, and the MacTutorMan are trademarks or service marks of Xplain Corp. Sprocket is a registered trademark of eSprocket Corp. Other trademarks and copyrights appearing in this printing or software remain the property of their respective holders.

All contents are Copyright 1984-2010 by Xplain Corporation. All rights reserved. Theme designed by Icreon.