Following up on his last “Inside DICE” post, Alan Kertz returns with the inside story on the much discussed Battlefield 3 USAS 12 shotgun and FRAG rounds: Where the inspiration came from, how it was balanced shortly after launch, and how we’re rebalancing it based on community feedback.

I often get the question “who thought 12g FRAG rounds were a good idea?” Well, that would be me. 12 gauge FRAG rounds stem from two places. First, like nearly everything in Battlefield, FRAG rounds are inspired by an authentic shotgun ammunition (developed for military use and tested by the USMC). A FRAG round is a 19mm High Explosive round, making it of a similar caliber to the rounds fired by the cannons on the F-18!

The second inspiration comes from an Easter Egg weapon for developers in Battlefield: Bad Company 2. The developers (or anyone who picked up their kit) could fire 12g FRAG rounds, with a similar ballistic performance as a standard shotgun slug, though slower. So popular was the round with developers and players alike that the FRAG round was made an unlockable ammo type for shotguns in Battlefield 3.

The addition of suppression in Battlefield 3 as a gameplay mechanic gave 12g FRAG rounds a clear target design. FRAG rounds would allow players with shot guns a round with limited combat effectiveness but the capability to harass and suppress opponents at longer distances. It almost worked.

Straight out of the gate, as players ranked up a bit of fun was had with FRAG rounds in the first unlockable shotgun, the 870. As players continued to rank up, the FRAG rounds were put to the test in the semi-automatic shotguns, with greater but still limited success. Enter the USAS-12. Arguably the FRAG round was developed primarily for combat shotguns, especially automatic weapons capable of quickly putting multiple rounds on target, since each round is of limited damage itself. It was clear that in order to remain balanced, and despite it not being completely authentic, the automatic and semi-automatic shotguns would need to have their own version of the FRAG round. It was quickly patched in, for balance.

And so it seemed that all was well again, at least for a time. The FRAG rounds are an interesting bit of study, statistically speaking. On the PC, USAS-12 kills account for just 1.8% of all kills (all ammo types are included in that figure, not just FRAG rounds). On the PS3 that number climbs to just over 3% and on Xbox 360 it climbs to nearly 4%. This is a unique behavior, as not only are the FRAG rounds and the USAS identical on all three platforms, but only the stats for USAS-12 and 870 vary so drastically between platforms. Furthermore, the 870 is most popular on PC and then drops in the same order of PS3 and 360. I’ll let everyone draw their own conclusions as to why this is, though I certainly have my suspicions. Statistically, there is a worst case scenario of dying from the USAS-12 1 out of every 25 deaths.

It’s important for us to fine-tune shotgun balancing at close range, especially with the upcoming expansion pack Battlefield 3: Close Quarters this June.

So why does it feel so frequent? Primarily, the FRAG rounds are most effective in Battlefield 3 exactly where they would be in real life: close quarters, urban combat. When broken down by map and mode, the USAS-12 is clearly more popular in TDM and CQB maps like Grand Bazaar and Operation Metro. Players in those modes are more likely to be killed by FRAG rounds than players who run around on Kharg Island Conquest.

And what do I plan to do about it? Well, one very little, but very effective change will take place in the near future. On all other shotguns, using FRAG rounds reduces the effective rate of fire. For semiautomatic shotguns this rate drops from 200-220 rounds per minute to 180rpm, a 10% reduction. The USAS simply did not have this reduction in place. As of the next update, it will have its 275rpm reduced significantly to 200rpm. I’m actually a bit worried it’s too much, and I’m eager to hear how players react to the change.

Shotguns are easily the most difficult weapons to balance in Battlefield. Given the wide range of combat distances in Battlefield 3, shotguns must feel powerful up close, without being over powered, and weak at medium distance without being under powered. Furthermore, each map has a unique combat distance feeling, yet the performance of the weapons must feel consistent. The relatively random nature of pellet spread, or FRAG round accuracy, makes this especially difficult. The update also includes some more minor tweaks to try and help players consistently identify the effective range of their shotgun by reducing the random factors involved.

Rest assured, this won’t be the last update for balance issues in Battlefield 3. I’ll be monitoring the situation closely, and working directly with the team to make additional updates and tweaks to keep the Battlefield balanced. Let me know what you think of the latest balancing tweaks here in the comments section on the blog.

I don’t like shot guns. where’s the skill, it just reminds of COD. running around for kills and not caring about teamwork. it would be awesome if someone actually used frag rounds for suppression, but that is obviously not why they used them, as we can see by the drop in overall use. cross-eyed fags who can’t shoot straight use shotguns.

I agree that the USAS frag was overpowered pre-patch, but now it’s drastically underpowered. Maybe split the difference between the two? It shouldn’t be like a tank shell, but it should be more deadly than what it is now.

i agree tsahms, i really do, you do need a shotgun in combat but you don’t need the noobs with fag rounds o i mean frag rounds, there pointless to me and people that use them are not my cup of tea but that’s how the game rolls.

The USAS 12 with frag rounds were completely overpowered. I was always getting raped with the gun and the other team would absolutely decimate the other team if they all were using frag rounds. I never tried them until they were about to patch it and i was amazed by the power and lethality of the gun. I got three service stars in no time and the reason it was so popular was because it was very easy to use and get kills with

this seems interesting and im happy you did that people used to go crazy with the frag round but why take it down so low that now no1 uses them why did you put so much recoil on the usas 12 that no1 wants to use it anymore im egar to know

I liked the Frag Rounds. they were effective if you could put the round on the target. Now I can put two or three rounds on a player at close range, and they still have time to respond. Too weak now.
I usually use a different rifle, but for close maps, the USAS-12 w/Frag has gone too weak.

shotguns are still overpowered. I don’t mind if they great at short-distance combat but you can easily get killed from them even on mid-range. and all the noobs that can’t aim are running with them. lads just look how many tdm servers have shotguns baned. thing to consider, dice.

don’t agree with you. shut guns should have lots of stopping power just like they would in real life. if you’re gun complain about a shot gun then why not complain about sniper rifles being used with iron, dot or holo scopes. i’ve said it one or twice and i’ll say it again. to many under powered guns on this gun. they all need buffing and the good ones left alone. its never a good idea to ruin a fun weapon but you can make the less fun ones fun to.

USAS frag = U SUCKS AT SHOOTING.. well for me post patch is good so you just dont run in hell and kill as a devil. but also fix the m26 dart. its just shotgun sniper kills one shot in mid and long range.

I’ve never found a problem with the USAS Frags rounds. Even since the Beta version. Ive used them a couple of times before and after the patch. You are going to die by any and probably every gun in the game at some point. Just get over it.

whats the point of bringing out cqb expansion pack if all the good guns for it are gone now. i won’t buy it for sure. whats the bullshit about balance anyway. not all guns are the same in real life either so they aren’t balanced. total balance is just the same gun for all and thats boring. with the last patch we got a lot closer to that now. instead of using many different guns i only use the m416 , m4 and hand guns now most others aren’t really worth it anymore…

the usas12 and the famas are completely useless now. you might as well just completly remove them from the game. its still possible to get kills on dumb noob maps like shooting up the stairs in metro still works but that wasn’t much fun in the first place and all the noobs kept wining about it. to use those guns on other maps required skill and it was a lot of fun. fragging out enemy positions jeeps and helis that is not possible anymore, you might as well start throwing pillows. the game was a lot more fun before most guns were nerfed to bb mode…

YOU UYS HAVE listened to fucking around 1k player to fuck up usas + frag and everything …i dont feeel its a wepon anymore its shit and i quited battlefield 3 becouse u reduced its damage etc …..you should have vooote for it before doing shit updates in important weapons …and same time if players dont want play with frag ppl then they should just join a server not allows frags usas etc……….its soooo shaame u guys fucked my best weapons ,,,,fuck this game i dont like it anymore unless u give it back

And yes, i played with it, and yes i played against it…. and soo?
Overpowered? OK. I understand all points of view, however it’s easy to counter it.
It’s a Game, soo, Pull yours imagination, use every combination and Most of all, your SKILL…
and Pufff a magic weapon will apear to face frag, usas, dart, even the m320….

And yes, i already used all weapons… i can garantee that overpowered or not, there is always a combination + skill that will surpass “the overpowereds” weapons/shot’s!

Soo, i think with soo many “updates” at weapons, we start to feel wicked shots…

FRAG: It’s a SHOT that has a GRENADE on it, and EXPLODES when touch’s YOU! Soo…

FOR REAL, what can a GRENADE do to You, when shooted too your chest, you will BLOW UP! with luck, some leg can get untouched or a finger or 2 LOOOL….

A sniper, and not getting the M98B, just for example: L96 Ammunition 10 [7.62x51mm NATO] at close range, what happens? lol u should get a “GOOD EXIT HOLE” from the shot entering…. DEAD! but…well, 2shots…well… OK! No problem… Then we do what?

there is a flaw in your logic with the snipers. 7.62x51mm NATO, and all the other rounds used by the long range bolt actions would most likely not kill at close range unless it hit the heart or the head. Those rounds go faster as they travel through the air so it would make more sense to have 2 shots at close range and 1 shot at long range, as long as its above the waist.

just so you know, in real life, the law of physics dictates that regardless of weapon, the speed of the bullet will NEVER increase in speed unless going straight down, so that means that with the friction of the air (dust, wind, just about anything really) will slow the bullet down…the game mechanics are different than in real life…so all in all, i cannot say the sniper rifle’s bullet will decrease or increase speed, but if it drops only one can assume that its losing its speed…but i’ve always hated shot guns unless its up close and personal…tempted to play with shotguns again

Well in real life the bullet also rises if it were to be sighted in at 100 meters because the 7.62×51/.308 round tends to shoot in a arch. This means that all shots under 100 meters would be aimed at the chest for the bullet to hit the chest.

And as long as we are talking about shotguns and their effect, the closeup effect of buckshot is very unrealistically nerfed. The military found a long time ago that multiple round hits from a small caliber like a .22, such as three hits, will have a greater physiological shock effect than a single hit from a larger caliber and be more immediately disabling. Within the first 10 feet, the shotgun pellet spread is so negligible the impact is the same size and the effect the same as a bullet of the same mass so should be the same as, for instance, the .45 mag pistol (which should be a one hit kill at that distance). The effect should drop off rapidly and geometrically after that, but even three pellet hits should be disabling. Unless you have a flak jacket that actually works. By the way, you still have “hints” that the flechettes will punch through thin wood and metal. They don’t appear to be able to punch through cotton. You should update your hints to match your nerfs.

Really? A semiauto shotgun that can put out 3 rounds a second? And the rounds are explosive? And from the hip??? You don’t need accuracy. You will dominate any close combat situation. And you originally had it programmed at 4 1/2 rounds a second? (275 rpm). The most unrealistic part of this is that the shotguns appear to be controllable at these cyclic rates. Why didn’t you include shoulder-fired gatling guns and flame-throwers? Since you are using the fact that the Marine Corps “tested” these why don’t you give us a 106mm recoilless rifle? They actually used those.

This issue could be fixed by keeping the gun the same but just have the anti flack perk better against shotguns…just like real life. Having body armor should slow you down but also protect better in the game. Right now as the game is, anti flack doesnt seem to make a difference.

I don’t usually use shotguns but I did use the usas 12 with frag rounds and I liked it how it was before the new patch yeah I think people that use it all the time suck but if your good it shouldn’t matter I wish it would go back to how it was because I could kill people from a snipers range with it that’s what made me use shotguns this time and just to say another thing I think the 240b and all the other light machines guns should kill people alot quicker I mean come on I’ve actuall used these weapon they should be able to cut some one down just saying

alot of guns can do that in real life, most guns will kill people in one chest shot unless they receive instant medical aid, but that would make the game too realistic and get pretty boring knowing one shot would kill you as you’d be well too cautious

Did you also consider that USAS only comes available for players of rather high rank (>43)? This automatically shows on the statistics of how many % of kills it has compared to guns which are available from the start (e.g M16A3). It also gives the most OP weapon (if equiped with frags) only to the hands of hardened veterans… that combination is not very balance friendly.

This is a major issue in the game. At launch, we were able to play all maps while staying in conquest, rush, etc. You never did include the Karkand maps in the hardcore rotation however.

Look at this thread, there are many players that are pissed off about this. It is also a very shady business practice to do away with this initially offered feature right around the time you offered server rentals, as to increase revenue by making players pay to play something the way you gave it to us in the first place!

The servers are a terrible mix of game modes now and there is no point of even selecting a game mode in quick match anymore. If you select conquest it should stay in conquest. Try searching DICE in server search. It will bring up mostly good servers. I have done this and just added the good server to my favs. so, no more pick and pray.

I’m glad you guys nerfed this pice of garbage. Since the patch, I haven’t even suffered more than 20% damage from this ridiculous pseudo-munition. Hopefully you guys are still reading replies to this pose, because you need to do the following:

Nerf the damn guided missile and canister shells in the following manner: switching between main gun ammo of any time on any of the MBTs requires a reload penalty. Which is common sense, considering that both canister and guided shell rounds are main gun ammo. I think you guys are aware of the fact that a person can quickfire a main gun round instantly following a guided missile or a canister shot. This makes no sense. You already have a munition reload penalty when switching between 30mm and to an APFSDS round on the IFVs, so why not simply release a minipatch to resolve this issue? It’s blatantly annoying and a real feeding ground for noobs and tank campers.

As well, the rapid-fire assault rifles are simply ridiculously inaccurate, the whole point of ARs is for them to be accurate well up to 100m, the average realistic engagement distance for ARs (technically up to 300m, in burst or single shot fire though). You fixed alot of annoying issues, but some things still stick-out like sore thumbs.

You realise the AR’s are absolutely fine, you just need to learn to shoot more accurately in bursts (don’t use burst mode, that sucks). Other point is pretty good though, I’m fed up of tanks raping infantry with canister shell and main gun, there’s absolutely no opportunity to get hits on them if they’re good and have a good gunner.

please don’t listen to this idiot shinoPoznanski on any of his suggestions on nerfing. the guided missiles and shells are fine. the gunner on the tank is under powered against infantry since the latest patch. it needs returning to how it used to be. all those people complaining about over powered this and that just aren’t good at the game and get easily frustrated.

I think that everyone crying about the USAS is a bunch of noobs and need to just chill out because it has it disadvantages as well as its advantages and should not be slowed down. I think its gay that EA did such a thing! if you slow down the USAS then you might as well slow down a majority of all the other guns just to make it even more balanced! It just makes no sense at all and until they fix it I’m not playing this game anymore because of it!!! shame on you EA!!!! This was such a good game until you made such a bad mistake!!

you right darkelf. they should of stuck to there guns and kept things as they were. i still play the game a lot i must admit but i did prefer it before the two latest patches. i am new to the whole online gaming thing but i’ve never heard of a game thats been ruined so much because the developers listen to people who can’t play the game and get easily frustrated. if they’d left all the good guns alone i bet you all the moaners would still be playing. i mean its like george lucas releasing star wars the empire strikes back ( the best sci fi classic around in my opinion ) and pulling it back after release because of customers who saw the film didn’t like parts of it. then changing it and ruining it. thats just stupid. most people don’t have any creative talent in their whole body but they like to think they know better then the people with talent. i mean a good artist doesn’t listen to their critics right? stop listening to this idiots dice. they’ll ruin your masterpiece! well they’ve already done a good job so for.

my friend and i rented a server, we usually have it on squad death match or rush, sometimes conquest. also most of the maps we do are CQ. i personaly dont have a problem with frag rounds on a semi or the 870 shotgun, but if i get killed by a USAS you are gonna get banned. it pisses everyone off, except the people that use it. i dont have a problem with the USAS with buckshot but the autocannon is taking it too far

i got almost 30000 kills now…i got 75 with that noob gun and i never will get it why you just put it in the game…was pissing me off until you brought rental server to the ps3…USAS and MK3A1 is not allowed on our server and i really like it since that to play metro…
i got no respect for the usas users…my mom just could do it with that noskillneeded annoying gun…

God I hated Frag rounds… sure, they are beasts in real life but this is a game so a balance needs to be struck. If a few people used it, ok. However, it was so powerful that it was not uncommon to see 80% of a team using frag rounds. I had more respect for FAMAS users than them (not by much, though). Glad it has been taken care of, though I do wish they were removed period.

Hi ALAN KERTZ, i am admittedly a huge TDM player as well as a huge USAS-12 user. I never found FRAG rounds much use for me; I’d rather just have buckshot. As you’ve said, shotguns are most effective in CQC, which almost translates to TDM in Battlefield. If the next update lowers the rate of fire to 200rpm, then I would agree that the decrease is TOO MUCH. In Battlefield, there is ALWAYS AN ALTERNATIVE! When people complain about “game abuse” like using the USAS-12, it’s because they’re really conservative in the way they play…this means it’s not DICE’s fault. I remember beasting out time in Seines Crossing (TDM) till a player of the opposite teams joined and started owning me with a Mk11 Mod I…stupidly i kept using a shotgun even though i knew he was using a sniper which could kill me from a longer distance…We get so angry when we are getting own that we ignore all the alternatives to make a comeback…FRAG rounds i think we initially too powerful i think…but not too much to find another alternative to make a comeback…USAS-12 in real life is powerful in CQC..keep it that WAY! its all im saying…i immediately saw the decrease in power after this last update…i think it is enough

I find the fact that people complain like 7 yr olds when getting killed by a weopon some ones worked the butts off to get an abomonation to all battle feild players high ranked. I worked so hard for that weopon when i was killed i respected its power becasue it a high ranked weopon and all high ranked weopons should be diffrent from lvl3-17 weopons. i realize and under stand the new exspansion pack finds it necarry to slow the power back but the speed it what made that weopon special to every who used it take the power back but the speed is what i miss and toall who say your a noob or no skill it may have gave us an edge but our skill got us to that weopon

I can’t agree more. As much as I hate getting repeatedly killed by USAS frag rounds, I can’t say that they are overpowered. The fact is, it frustrates the crap out of me to get killed repeatedly by ANY gun and it’s typically my strategy that gets me into the situations that get me killed. It comes down to strategy and teamwork. If people worked as a team to flank the so called “abusers” of the frag rounds, they could end up dominating them with ease. Bottom line, don’t complain that someone is being unfair because of the weapon they are using. We all have the same opportunity to unlock the same weapons/attachments. Simple as that.

i would like to thank dice for the update i was starting to think you guys did’nt give a rats ass what we as consumers and players thought but i was wrong all the tweaks even to my favorite guns i thought was alright i just want a balanced an competitive game. i just did’nt want to see it turn into one of those multiplayer games where people use certain equipment and guns because it gives them an edge instead of having skill. and again thanks and i can’t wait for the add-on in june

i miss the USAS-12 with Frag rounds. The weapon in real life is crazy, the game showed that power. NOTHING wrong with it. People complained about it from dying all the time, clearly then you need to play better, simple as.

Its not like you unlock the weapon from the get go, you need to get to rank 43/44 which takes a while. Had to work very hard for the weapon now its pointless. Slowing down the rate of fire on frags is stupid, the weapon was designed to have a high rate of fire even with frag rounds ‘in real life’ but the splash damage is as powerful as a water balloon now. Frag rounds have become POINTLESS, all the hard work unlocking the weapon has been taken away.

well i disagree with you sir here’s an example of the usas-12 before the patch
i was in a squad of three we always play together and i think we have skill we were playing metro we went against an entire team using that shotgun iwas runiing engineer with the SIG, my other squad mate was a medic with an 870 {no frag rounds he has honor} and my other squad mate was running support with the M60 we turned a corner there was a guy we shot at him he took i don’
t know how many shots from the M60 but did’nt die he instead wiped out and entire team with one clip and he was hip firing and you say these guys got skill if its supposed to be like real life the minute that M60 which shoots a 7.62 round and a shotgun blast from the 870 hit him he would have been dust. you sir are the one with no skill and you can find me on the 360 i’ll be waiting and so is my squad

That person was probably me who owned you all…If i was in front of you 3 in real life with the same weapons…we all had anti-ballistic armor on….your M60 fires at me as im running towards you guys…he misses a lil bit because of recoil but manages to damage me near death BUT i fire about 3 bursts of shotgun shells at you guys…your M60 aim becomes inaccurate because of fear and supression of the spread of pellets…yes sir…all of you would go down…but i’d still be very damaged and probably bleeding to death…but luckily it’s Battlefield and i regain health!

Was it to annoy the 8% of players that used a shotgun sometimes, but please the 50% of noobs that had been killed by a shotgun at point blank range ONCE and proceeded to whine on the forums ?

DICE had to know that shotguns were lacking against most carbines allready, you are WAY better off with a carbine on EVERY MAP (including METRO, just look at the numbers of people using shotguns vs people using carbines or support weapons) .

So, if nobody was using the shotguns before the patch, how could it EVER be OP ?!

WHY the fucking nerf to EVERY shotgun ?

They DID sacrifice the 8% of shotgun users (mostly above average players that want a challenge), to please a boat full of total rank 20 noobs that could not win with their famas against a shotgun at point blank range did they ?

DICE, i have been asking this since i first heard of the patch, WHY the nerf to ALL shotguns ?

Even FRAG rounds were ok after the PC patch … I can understand ‘somewhat’ that the USAS has been toned down … but every fucking shotugn nerfed ?

You are literally better off now with a sniper rifle at point blank range. They have a higher OHK distance when shooting the body. WTF ?

i have been a long time player of the battfield series, since 1942 always on PC. i got the bf3 ps3 and WAS impressed w/ the game. on the subject of the frag round and the over-all reduction of the weapon kill power, in this last patch… i almost threw the game away! except i love the franchise and all the other tweeks. the, “turning down” of the famas and usas 12 ruined 2 good weapon systems. look at a video on youtube,”a101 shotgun” and you will realize that the power of the usas is mimicking a real world weapon system. if you think you could run down the barrel of that weapon then you are justified in turning down the power. the famas is, for all practical purposes, useless now. you would have been better off nixing the weapon than that pos thats there now. most of the whiners were probably COD heros that couldn’t stand to come get served without the ability to knife from 39 ft away. maybe not as strong as before but those 2 systems need SOME of their original glory restored. anyway thats my 10 cent worth.

I think its great you guys have heard the players feedback, the recent patch is really awesome! As for the frag rounds they totally needed to be reduced! 1 or maybe 2 people with them isn’t much trouble but I’ve been in matches were entire squads have used em and its just ridiculous! Also I feel the tank machine guns should be more effective against infantry. Ive gotten 5 or 6 hit markers on guys and they haven’t gone down! and they were chest to head range… just something I’ve noticed! Last thing, please keep adding new content! bf3 is by far the best shooter out there!

How to mess a game up the quick way by updating with too many patches why make a game good then rip the hell out of it . Dont get me wrong i love all the BF additions but this is by far th worst updating to date getting to COD for my Liking ???? and loads on line will agree……Still all the Ea and DICE SERVERS seem to be getting fewer now all the Campers and spawn killers have Servers Bad Move all round BF2 better Maps …..

this is why i am a proud owner of battlefield 3. you can recognize faults in the game unlike other designers and will change it, and respond to almost every complaint/compliment. thanks for changing the usas-12, i was starting to really hate op. metro.

Alan Kertz is Core Gameplay Designer on Battlefield 3. In this “Inside DICE” post, he explains how feedback from the community has a direct impact on the balancing we do on a number of items in our upcoming game update.

Alan Kertz is Core Gameplay Designer on Battlefield 3. In this “Inside DICE” post, he explains how feedback from the community has a direct impact on the balancing we do on a number of items in our upcoming game update.

I doubt that any development team would ever hold their hands up and say ‘Yeah we fucked up’ so the likelyhood of this poll ever officially happening is probably as close to impossible as it can get.
P.S i am not a USAS-12 lover or user i just think the patch as a whole is pretty terrible.

I think you should introduce a system like Mass Effect 3 or release more weapons perhaps (or upgrades) at even higher levels. It’s far too easy to unlock weapons in BF3. I think at least. The harder it is or like ME3 the more rare it is with a “chance” to get something… Then the more spread you have in what people have. It’s nice to go into a game where you’re really the only one using a certain type of weapon. The same can kinda be accomplished simply by releasing more weapons and accessories…There already are a TON but I’m pretty sure 80% of them kinda go unused. Everyone uses the same thing and it’s annoying. There should be strategic benefits to more than 20% of the weapons and then to the combination of accessories. OR you gotta somehow ensure that not everyone is using the best of the best weapons and your 80% of unused gear does in fact get used because people haven’t unlocked the better gear yet. I think also adding in a bit more “chance” to weapons and these minor tweaks you’re doing are great…But since you’re having such a hard time balancing it, why not just add other options? That should sway some people away from the FRAG rounds or whatever else that you think is being used too much. Even though it’s only 4% of all kills… Of course they don’t bother me, I’m a sniper haha.

OR in other words…You add a red dot sight and flash light on EVERY sniper rifle which makes almost zero sense. Why not more strategically lay out the gear and options? I am 4 kills away from a 3.4x scope on the M98B which is utterly useless. I’ll never use it. I mean, don’t show people that the SKS has a red dot sight because it’s semi-auto while the long range M98B does not…Meaning “hey you idiot, don’t put it on there.” But if certain weapons had unique accessories…

Perfect example: the M98B USED to have the flash suppressor so while I like the M40A5 because it had 10 rounds instead of 5…The trade off I made actually made me THINK. There’s almost no thinking required in this game and that’s where I believe you should focus. Those small things. That has a lot more effect in game balance than obvious small tweaks.

By making these trade offs and choices you’re also forcing people to play at different ranges or areas of the map. Well that or they’ll easily get picked off…But the point is you’re really shaping the game. You can’t know this immediately of course, it’s only after the game has launched and been out. So you should observer and listen to feedback. You have an extremely powerful tool. All those stats. But you somehow chose to focus on something that accounted for less than 5% of all kills. Why? I understand for the upcoming close quarters maps…But still. Why are you not taking advantage of these numbers all the time?

An easy way to balance a game is to get players to use a wider variety of combinations of items. Not make it an easy choice for them to only use a certain set. Which is what you do now. Basically your model is you use the less effective weapons until you unlock better weapons…and NEVER (or rarely) go back. However…You should focus on modifications and strategy a bit more. You don’t need to get all Tom Clancy technical, but I think those who want to experiment and be strategic should be rewarded for doing so.

Sure minor tweaks are important. They can and SHOULD be released frequently. It takes too long for you to make adjustments. You should make an adjustment and then listen to players. Don’t just test it in house. Hell, open up voting. While the community and their opinion should only be one factor in your decision, you should still have it.

YOU OVERKILLED IT!!!!! This update and recent patches are somewhat overkill; I can’t even use the USAS12 anymore to the point where I am face to face with a sniper and a full extended mag of 11 shots of FRAG ammunition wont kill him resulting in my death :|

No one seems to understand what the weapon “balancing” is for. As you progress in the game you unlock more weapons and more gadgets, ammo, etc. The later ones are frequently better, the gadgets and ammo better. This keeps you trying because you want that USAS-12 you got shot by last round, and you really want those frag rounds. When you got killed by the same guy with his USAS three or four times in a row YOU vowed that when YOU got that USAS and frags YOU were gonna blow the hell out of everybody. Really show them! The problem is that as players get experience and better unlocks they are significantly better than new players. Read those last two words as “new purchasers”. It’s a real challenge to allow the experienced players to feel they have achieved something yet keep them from being so devastating that anyone new is quickly discouraged from playing anymore. That can easily happen. Put a mini cannon with a cyclic rate of ten or more rounds a second in the hands of an experienced player, and the game is quickly over. So they have to alter the performances of the weapons to try to keep newer players from being quickly overwhelmed. In this case I think the developers are underestimating the USAS-12 and frags. I saw discussion about one or more entire clans deciding to use all USAS-12 with frags. What other weapon has been that popular and why? To me, it is kinda like saying the German M42 was just a machine gun like the Browning. Except for the 1200 rpm with 3000 fps muzzle velocity and 2000 m effective range for the M42. The developers would like their game to be realistic, but realistically they are most interested in selling a lot of games. So, guys like me who will never have a k/d ratio much less negative than the national debt, can feel confident that we can still have fun with these games and will buy the next one out. And the “good” players can still feel good about themselves that they are dangerous with a toy gun in a video game.

i think that the usas 12 was a bit owerpowerd for its fast rate of fire befor u ”nerfed” it. but now i think the gun is to slow. You should make it fire at about 250-280 rpm and increse the bullet trop on it. allso i think that the anti air bassoka takes waaay to mush time to look on to an aircraft. just my opinion

This is a major issue in the game. At launch, we were able to play all maps while staying in conquest, rush, etc. You never did include the Karkand maps in the hardcore rotation however (for some unknown reason).

Look at this thread, there are many players that are pissed off about this. It is also a very shady business practice to do away with this initially offered feature right around the time you offered server rentals, as to increase revenue by making players pay to play something the way you gave it to us in the first place!

Now that you let just anyone buy the gun, what’s the problem? I’m tired of fanboy whining about this gun and round. I shot a guy right in the chest 6 times and still got beat by the FAMAS point blank(I shot first) stop nerfing everything for the whiners lke the poor IRNV scope. you ruined that too and for what?

This is a major issue in the game. At launch, we were able to play all maps while staying in conquest, rush, etc. You never did include the Karkand maps in the hardcore rotaion however.

Look at this thread, there are many players that are pissed off about this. It is also a very shady business practice to do away with this initially offered feature, right around the time you offered server rentals, as to increase revenue by making players pay to play something the way you gave it to us in the first place!

I don’t like the fact that the grip is now useless. It served its purpose with help controlling the muzzle. Now your better of using the bipod or undersling. The famas had its moments of WTF and so has the frag rounds. Hammering an tank with 4 anti-tank rockets or RPGs was problematic. Outside of that no complaints.

The way the guns are balanced now are bad. A couple of things to note this. In real life all guns are NOT equal! Each gun has its own characteristics and feel of course. The guns were fine prior to this patch. Players have been mastering their gun of choice for months now and its not right to change it. The USAS…. It is what it is, fire rate is supposed to be faster than the other shotguns. If other whiners don’t like it then find a server with rules against it. Simple enough.

It’s difficult to really put a lot of effort into detailing what an individual player thinks is broken or over powered or under powered or even what is just right. It’s difficult because honestly we don’t know if anyone that can make any significant input in future weapon balancing will actually read what is being written. Worst yet is we don’t even know where to post these things where it could even be a remote possibility of being read by someone who can make a difference. I could honestly go into great detail and testing about one weapon or one platform and write up 3 pages on something and what chance do I have that it will actually be read? No idea. So here are the cliff notes. —–
Stinger AA needed to be nerfed from before the patch but now it’s been over nerfed and needs a tiny buff on range again, may +50m. Splash damage from armored vehicles was over nerfed as well and need a tiny bit of a buff. Armor rating on vehicles are also a touch under powered. While they shouldn’t be restored to pre-patch levels they might also need a tiny buff. Jet Aircraft maneuverability seems to be the main complaint from pilots in my community. I’ve nothing bad to say about the Attack Helo changes so kudos on that. I fly the Viper and Havok all the time and I love the changes. Though it seems that ECM and Flares are broken in the PC version. Why does ECM not break the lock of a Javelin Missile when a Javelin is laser guided? I also have only one complaint on the infantry weapon changes as far as balance goes. I understand why the Foregrip was nerfed but holy cow it’s extremely difficult to use effectively on weapons now. Seems to have been a bit over tweaked IMO. And that’s it.

oh man is it funny listening to you idiots complaining about everything and i mean everything.Oh man, this guy killed me with a sniper rifle when i was shooting at him at 400 yards away when i was shooting at him with an mp7.Therefore, were going to make the mp7′s effective range 600 yards, make the sniper rifle’s effective range 35 yards and since he killed you in one shot in the head, were gonna make the sniper rifle now a 3 shot head shot weapon, make the mp7 have laser grenade ammunition and make it a 1 shot kill smg. Its obviously not that ridiculous, yet, but its well on its way. What idiot from dice thought that balencing all the weapons would be a good idea? i mean, lets make the shotguns NOt be a cqb weapon. lets make them be what they arent designed to do. U fu#$@&* retards, what else it it gonna do. Why would you penalize a weapon for what it was designed for. Im not just talking about shotguns but any freaking weapon. Dice oh dice, some chenges are good most arent. theres no such thing in real life as the great weapons balancer so why should there be in BF3. Also, its hilarious with all of you thinking your military geniuses because your working for the police or youve shot a .22 or played cod. The thing is that a very, very small number of us have ever been in the military. Just by some of the ridiculous comments that a lot of you idiots post. For example, Farside 42 (oh man probably even isnt a cop or even shot a real gun, or if he is hes like a donut inspector((nothing against cops or donuts)) is one of the biggest idiots ive ever heard)he was complaining about if you aimed at someones chest and shot that you would completely miss then. well no freakin du. You dont freakin miss them the first few shots but after that the recoil rises and continues to rise. For those of you who dont have access to an m16 or other FULLY AUTOMATIC assault rifle (not machine gun) just get a semiautomatic .22 and set up a milk jug just maybe 10 feet away. Line up on it once and keep pulling the trigger until your out of ammo. How many times did you hit it, maybe 2 or three times at most. thats because you werent controlling it. The gun just doesnt magically stay in one place, thats your job. now think of a 5.56(223 remington)firing about seven times faster. haha, still think the rise of the gun is inaccuratenfrom real life? Most of you couldnt tell me the difference between a magazine and a clip without googling it. Also, for you idiots like farside, an AR- freakin 15 isnt a military weapon, its not military grade or anything its just a tactical semi automatic rifle. I myself wouldnt even classify it as an assault rifle. to prove my point, you can take a mini-14 (its just a smaller m14 type rifle in 223 caliber its small and compat and a popular ranch rifle) and deck it out just like an AR-15.was it an assault rifle before? no. is it now? no. haha farside why dont you grow some balls and join the marine core before you start talking about shit you dont even know about. farsides comments are on page 14. enjoy listening to his bull crap. ( the only thing i agree with him is the perfect balance of BC2)

This is only Job Security for the Core Gameplay designers. It’s like IT jobs they modify and upgrade to break stuff so they could go in and fix it. The guns were fine until you changed them the first time. That’s why I and a bunch of other friends of mine stopped playing your game back in Oct. 2011. There are other games out there that were better. Fix the wall and building glitches instead of gun damage.

I’m a player in PS3 … and truly feel that this new patch is not right .. let him down too much damage to weapons, you have to shoot several times a player to kill him!, I don’t liked, I start the game and was so perfect it was.

to start .. why reduced the damage to the USAS-12?, I’m sure this was mainly act noobs .. obviously going to do much damage a gun of this magnitude. I’m not a fan of USAS -12, or use, but it was fine. Now, I’m a fan of the FAMAS .. why reduced the amount of bullets and increased the rate of fire?, what the fuck is this? As with the M320 .. reduced the damage caused. I hope they fix these changes they did, because really, to us veterans, we are not pleased at all this change. the other changes that have nothing to do with weapons was great, but as for weapons, was a mess. it is still a great game, but please change this.

Your not a fucking veteran -_____- Famas is supposed to be mixed extreme rate of fire with extreme recoil pre patch it had extreme rate of fire barely any recoil fucker and the usas demolished anyone i mean you could get away with it but for fuck sakes it was over powered and who the fuck caressss if thats not real too you noone does this isnt the army you fucking dipshit -______-

if you were an Veteran, then you would adapt, like every other veteran… i love this patch: guns have recoil, bipod is finaly something, USAS is not an issue, Saiga is more consistent… i adapted myself to the current situation and i love the game now, it’s the first time i saw someone use AK-74M while he have 7 assault stars… i only don’t like less damage on Jet Cannon, it’s much easier to survive for me, where’s the challenge? also FAMAS always had RPM of 1000, battlelog before was giving false information

Any change to the Frag rounds is a good one. Now in my mind I think people are bothered by the frag round/USAS 12 combo so much is because it doesn’t seem to require much effort to decimate a player. I’ve picked up the gun off other players a few times and even at medium range I can at times hold the trigger and easily blow away three enemies who just turned the corner. I’m all for keeping them in the game but a clear balance point must be reached with these crazy rounds. I say give the Frag rounds insane recoil as launching a shell of that caliber would result in a far greater recoil anyways.

I just tested the changes to the USAS 12 and the Frag rounds. You have made this weapon useless what a piece of crap. I will be uninstalling Battlefield 3 and sending it you youir office. A good game until people think they know better than the users.

- Audio glitches: The audio randomly breaks in and out, at times completely going mute (through my speakers, headphones, tv speakers etc.) that gets really annoying, especially when tanks can literally sneak up on you. Seeing as nobody seems to spot tanks you really have to rely on your ears to sense where they’re coming from but when the sound glitches in and out then disappears you have tonnes of metal creeping up on you firing at you without you even knowing – it’s utterly ridiculous and I can’t believe it still persists since release. This problem has been there since I started playing, I can’t understand why it hasn’t been fixed. I use speakers and headphones. When I use headphones I change the audio options to ‘headphones’ and switch on ‘enhanced stereo’ and tried it ‘off’. No difference. Sound still glitches, especially on Conquest-Caspian Border.

- Assault class showing ammo icon and throwing out health kits that look like ammo crates whilst the soldier shouts “get your ammo” etc. when it’s clearly supposed to be a medi-kit. Only started happening since the patch, hilariously. Although I would absolutely love and prefer if the Assault class could provide ammo rather than the Support class, more like BC2 which was more consistent and far better balanced to an almost perfectly beautiful degree.

- Assault rifles are now underpowered? Or inaccuracy/recoil increased under suppression because it takes longer for you to drop an opponent. I don’t mind that, but with lag and glitching you can’t always pick off perfect headshots so it’s infuriating when you empty a mag into the back of some guy only for him to turn around and panic-fire with a lucky headshot.

- It’s always been a problem but seems worse post-patch but when players vault over a wall/object they seem to leap forward a good few metres at times in super-speed, making it impossible to shoot them/predict where they are. I notice I’m doing it when I vault over small objects and zoom forward a few extra metres and another few incidents in Operation Metro tunnels where I magically zoomed forward about 10metres for no reason, a bit like the Whirlwind Sprint in Skyrim! It allowed me to catch up with a bad guy and knife him who should have been long gone towards the m-coms. I like the ability to vault over objects and walls, but if it ruins realism/flow of game and allows players to jump magically a few extra metres then don’t put it in the game. The X button for a simple jump usually gets you over most obstacles.

- Recoil/inaccuracy under suppression. It now feels much wilder and unpredictable. The effect of suppression was fine before. Now it’s mad and close-quarter gun-fights end up being messy, pot-luck, spray & pray situations.

- A lot of the gun “balancing” post-patch still feels awkward. Some now more powerful or less powerful than they were before making certain classes/kits unbalanced and unfair. And I don’t really care about Frag rounds. They were annoying in the close-quarter, narrow matches like OpMetConquest but I usually worked against them by keeping my distance and using the range of the rifles or LMGs to wipe them out before they get close enough.

- And a personal gripe, even though I know it’s a Battlefield title and not Bad Company 3 but the kits just don’t feel right. Assault class should carry ammo crates – Support should be designed more as a medic, it makes sense as they carry LMGs which can have huge magazines allowing them to suppress more effectively, clear areas and get close to their team-mates for reviving with the benefit of firing repeatedly and not having to reload constantly – that was a beautiful feature and a key part of Bad Company 2 which was a far more consistent and balanced game – I have great memories of watching Medics in BC2 stand in the middle of a street (Arica Harbor) blasting away with their 200-mag LMG keeping the enemy behind cover whilst they shuffled towards downed team-mates to revive them amidst a blaze of bullets, fantastic stuff. Now though, you have Assault class on the frontline blasting & reloading, firing grenades/shotguns and generally running from cover to cover trying to force the issue and take down the enemy – that’s what their kit is balanced for, they shouldn’t be the ones picking up the dead bodies that drop around and behind them – they should be the focal point of the attack whilst the Support/Medic picks up the injured and downed.

When I play as Assault I run out of ammo very quickly (even with Squad Ammo) despite aiming at Support team-mates and mashing my ‘Select’ button to no avail as they run on and ignore my call for ammo, leaving me with a handgun and the sole ambition of hunting someone down to steal their kit. When I play with family/friends online we try to work as a team but so often you need to switch kits as the battle changes to defend/attack/dominate and don’t always have a support class to provide ammo. Assault is more balanced, more frontline and will spray most bullets.

***HERE even is a GOOD IDEA for that as obviously you’re not going to change the Assault and Support kit around….
Make specific plots on maps (at each flag/base) where the Support class can BUILD a huge ammo crate with a specific number of bullets/explosives to collect, that when depleted will have to be rebuilt. Whoever builds it will gain points for providing ammo. Then every player when ammo-less knows where that crate will be and can travel towards it and stock up quickly rather than running around spamming the Select button asking random players for ammo only for 99% of them to ignore you. Stocking up on ammo is a regular thing for me anyway. I regularly get up some decent kill streaks and end up running out of ammo, especially with your typical 30-mag assault rifles and no Support class near you to resupply. As an “accessory” or option in the kit-selection menu you can pick between the small ammo crates you can throw out, or the option to build a massive ammo crate that is specific to certain areas on the map (whether it be at flags or bases or somewhere in between the battle).

I will probably give the new map expansions/dlc a miss and wait for Bad Company 3 if it happens. I much preferred the balance, simplicity and set-up of BC2. BF3 is impressive in many, many ways but also over-complicated and tries too hard which makes for a less fun, less consistent and less balanced multiplayer experience. Take this new patch which changes far too much that didn’t need changing, add in some ridiculous audio glitches, new and worse lag, amongst many other issues and you’ve got a frustrating letdown. :(

You’re pretty much spot on for most of my complaints. My biggest concern being the ‘empty a clip into someone, point blank, and they don’t die’. It gets incredibly frustrating, and almost game ending.

One other issue I’ve seen, is 95% of the time, I can’t spot jets. I’m following them, center of my scope, as they fly towards me, then over, and I’m constantly tapping select, yet it does not get spotted.

Oh, and missiles seem almost useless now; at least from a heli. I his an enemy chopper with 6 missiles, with mini gun in between, and the helicopter kept hovering there, firing back at me. Even if he has repair, it shouldn’t be able to maintain that quickly. Last Saturday, I hovered, and missiled at a jet, while my teammate chased him with a jet. I lost count of how many missiles I sent at him, and it didn’t seem to phase him. I finally got bored and went after other targets.

If we are going to throw out recommendations, I’d like to recommend eject a guy from a vehicle, if he is inactive for a long period. I have witnessed a lot of players recently, who jump in a pilots seat, or gunner, and do nothing. For some reason, they are able to maintain that position for most of the mission.

One more recommendation, protection for vehicles at the spawn zone. It gets really old, when enemy choppers float over your carrier and continually blow up/steal your helis.

So you know I didn’t read your entire comment, some fragments here, and there. I used to think the silence was supposed to be like in Saving Private Ryan, you know how tom hanks goes deaf or whatever, but now it’s just a fuck up from the game itself. I am happy to let you know you got one support in the whole game who gives out ammo like candy, ME : D Even me still, forget to pass out ammo and have some creepy bastard next to me, knifing me, then again, most people don’t know how to use the select button, unlike yourself. I’d gladly play with you on XBOX if you have one. If so my gamertag is BLINDKITTY185, all caps.

You make some valid comments. However, I believe the equipment your carrying should dictate how fast you can move and how high you can Jump. If you’ve ever held an M249 or even shot with one you would know right off the bat that you cannot not turn and aim as quickly as you can with an M16 or M4. For you ideas of a giant ammo crate, sound like something I heard of in MW. Never played MW so I do not know, but this is also un-realistic. It does not happen in real conflicts unless it happens to be your home base. If I want to play a game I’d play MW. But I like the realism of BF3 Hardcore, but it still has it flaws.

Here are some ideas:
Assault/Medic – You must be in the Kneeling or Prone position within 1 Foot to revive a player. Standing 3 feet away is simply BS.

Weapon aiming: No one holds the weapon exactly the same and all weapons are different, so “Center
Screen” should not be the default “Kill” point. It should be offset, varying by weapon and class. I fire military weapons 1-2 times annually for qualification. I have never seen anyone qualify with the weapon set at Battle Sight Zero. Yes I know gravity affects bullets in BF3, but the bullet powder grain should affect it as well. I.E. When shooting a target at 25 Meters with an M16A1, you need to Aim for the balls to hit the chest. If you aim for the chest, the bullet will go over the target. Why? A bullet has an ARC flight path. So, it should not be just gravity.

Tactical-Light: I have yet to see an actual tactical light that completely blinds you. What the heck are those, 2 Million Candle Watt? How about dim that BS down a lot. Also, that laser blinding me is BS as well. If I’m being blinded by the laser and the guy shoots, well, he should miss unless he is over 100 meters away with an assault rifle. Why? Remember the bullet flight path. Also, the laser should have a zeroed distance per weapon. Why? Again, remember the bullet flight path.
Maneuverability: The class and equipment should dictate the speed at which you can run, jump, turn, keel, drop to prone, and get up from prone.

Reactive Armor is BS, it should not be allowed in hardcore games. Also, if the 12g Frag round is not very damaging, but a very effective suppressant, why the heck do I get killed with one shot at 50 meters? Make it and unlock at COL99, the last unlock in the game.

MAV: You already know, but show me one (same design as BF3) that can kill a person and still fly around. Also, you should be able to knife one to ground it, but not blow it up. That way, the controller would have to destroy it to a replacement from an ammo pack.

Game Mode: Normal should be called Arcade, you know, 2 clips to kill someone. Hardcore should be called Normal. Make a mode called realistic: One or two shot max to kill. You get tire running and jumping for any class. When tired all movements are slow, awkward and aiming really sucks.

Jammers: Since you have airborne vehicles ECM jammers, you should have ground kits to jam the jammer. It can be another unlock for the recon, similar to the SOFLAM, set and forget.

Close range it was expected, but players w/ USAS-12′s were taking you out from long range. Rate of shouldn’t change, it is automatic, semi. I think you will see a reduction in use on the consoles with this new patch. I got into a random game that the USAS-12 was not allowed.

DICE, I purchased Back to Karkand and on Wake Island rush i noticed a vehicle that at first seemed like a tank but just had strong AA guns. I used this to mow down infantry charging to the objective(yah i know smart) after the match i saw my mobile AA score go up for the first time. I have never seen a MOBILE AA before so I did the research and the only classic BF3 map that has a MOBILE AA is Rush on Noshahr Canals on the Russian side. You get one 9K22 Tunguska-M. However on PC versions of conquest on Kharg Island, Caspian Border, and Operation Firestorm all have both 9K22 Tunguska-Ms and LAV-ADs. I know that on pc you have more players (64) but it would be useful on consoles to have MOBILE AAs because the stationary AAs you give us are next to useless unless the jet or helicopter flys right over your base or close to it. But MOBILE AAs would allow us to fend off more attacks from enemy aircraft even if your not in the air and if you arent an Engineer. My question is do you have plans to further intergrate MOBILE AAs into BF3 classic or upcoming DLCs? Thank you for your time. Comments below are appreciated.

It also seems that dead soldiers’ kit don’t persist as long as they use to. And when you switch kits they don’t persist as long either. I don’t always have time to check what the kit has right away, or I risk getting killed in the open like the soldier whose kit I’m taking. It’s stupid to get to a hiding place and finally get to see what the kit has only to find that you got a noob’s kit and that I’d rather just have my original kit back. And when I go back to get it, now it’s gone and I’m stuck with a noob kit. I understand it probably wouldn’t be good to have them last the whole game, but they use to persist longer and should persist a but longer. I also always thought since BF2 that the dead bodies should stay on the battlefield and pile up. I think that would be a cool effect. I should get paid for my ideas too….

great job dice. the patch was great, tanks are not that weak but you will obviously be disable if it hits the engine instead of the front where the armor is the thickest, my only complaint is the assault rifles have been under-powered sure it was annoying getting killed in 4 to 5 shots but now its just ridiculous spraying a whole mag in to a person just to have them turn back and head shot you, and now there is no hope to win against more than one person plz fix the assault rifles. Keep up the good work can’t wait till June.

Come on guys, this is the reason you release such terrblie patches, you go by stats instead of just playing the game! The stats are skewed… High lvl players are about to play and defend themselve against all weapon except the usas. So while usas takes up a low %, to the players excelling at the game you might go 39 – 12 in a round and die from a usas 7 times… -_- smh play the game guys

Well you see the thing is… the frag rounds didn’t just dominate in close range.. they dominated over crazy distances! Like I would think I got sniped I’d be so far away, but sure enough, USAS Frag Rounds were the actual tool of destruction. I love the idea of a balanced frag round, that is effective and makes you feel beastly, but not one you can master and just dominate the whole field regardless of other players attempted counter-actions. I hated it before, but I’m thankful because I’ve seen much improvement with this update, before I probably was killed 10-15 out of 25 deaths in Operation Metro, now it’s dropped to 2-5, and in larger maps usually 5-10 out of 25, now around 1-3. So I’m very thankful for the way you guys evaluate, listen, and balance the game. Feels like my Battlefield experience is always heading in the direction of improvement!

K what happened to the realism level that we loved in bf3? The m416 now has no burst fire mode, the mg36 has only 50 rounds when it obviously has a 100 round drum magazine!!! And finally the RPk74m, let’s just say each round is half an inch thick multiply that by 200 and divide by 12 and we get 8, an 8 foot magazine. Which is obviously not the magazine of the rpk in bf3 which is a 45-50 bent magazine!!! Come on no one asked for those changes!!!!!! We might as well give the sv98 frag rounds and the m16 a 200 round drum flechette option, cause who cares about realism anymore anyway!!!!!

look alan in theroy the frag rounds are nice………… but in paractice not so much remember 70% of the people see frag and asume that their shot gun is now a granade launcher as for your statistics for consoles they are off by alot every map has become a play ground for these contemptable things caspin boarder one of the biggest maps in bf3 and yet i find myself being killed by frag rounds at sniper rifle distances you should not be able to shoot at 800 yrds and get a kill with a shotgun

yes im not the only one that see this. it sad when a frag round is more powerful then a slug round at long rang. ALAN KERTZ get ur ass off of normal and see how sad they really are on hardcore, u know its bad when it does the same damage as the m320. what! u screwed that up. u want a true first person shooter. then give the guns there true stats not the bullshit to make it even. yeah some might have more power but will not be as accurate at long range. cant what for GHOST RECON FUTURE SOULDER at least they will make a true game when it comes to the guns.

2. It was never effective against vehicles, only demolition and anti-personnel

3. Now it is completely useless

4. If I am getting suppressed from the second story of a building, I use my m320 to get rid of the problem. Now I may blow the wall off, but I still have a problem. It’s a 40mm grenade for pete’s sake!

5. It was already innacurate, and by nerfing the blast radius it is virtually useless now

6. Give me less rounds, make the ammo reload take longer, make the resupply take longer, don’t nerf the blast radius! It’s a 40mm grenade!!

‘A FRAG round is a 19mm High Explosive round, making it of a similar caliber to the rounds fired by the cannons on the F-18!’

‘Statistically, there is a worst case scenario of dying from the USAS-12 1 out of every 25 deaths.’

‘On the PC, USAS-12 kills account for just 1.8% of all kills (all ammo types are included in that figure, not just FRAG rounds). On the PS3 that number climbs to just over 3% and on Xbox 360 it climbs to nearly 4%.’

Alan Kertz, I thing you have inadvertently managed to explain in this artical why the FRAG round was an awful idea.
Just think about it, putting a weapon type with a similar caliber to the rounds fired by the cannons on the F-18 on a first person shooter? You asked for unsporting gameplay when you decided that this would be a good addition. As it is, I feel you are responsible for the worst element in this game.

After reading all the post about the new patch, im scared for it to hit Xbox. I will say i hate the USAS12 frag rounds and will never use them, but video games are meant so everyone can play, -skill or no skill- its part of the game. A few things needed to change, I just dont see why the HUGE list of updates were needed…BF3 is unique. I was using a blockbuster game pass to play BF3 for the last 2 months and finally bought it last week – please dont make me regret this Dice.

Ok the new update sucks but is good. For one can we have the tank driver know about the lock on missile? Please it is not even noobs that don’t know it, if there is a 3rd person in the tank locking onto a target please switch to your homing missile and shoot at it. Ok continuing….Wow so the IGLA and other anti aircraft missiles suck. The distance has been fixed but seems waaaay to off no to mention being too close. There must be a bug with that because it is really really hard to lock on at whatever range you are at. Especially up close, I mean come on if your close it should lock regardless. Game play has improved and I see the “tryness” but helicopters have become ridiculous to try and fly. I swear I can’t even get two kills in a heli before dying in one. Lock on is way too quick and accurate with the evasive maneuvers. Fix your bugs please

with the MAV. 1 the mav is not able to pick someone up in real life so why do stupid people think its cool. 2 if u want to get on a building that ur not supposed to be on in the first place then i should be able to drop that building. 3 the frag rounds are a joke and people that think there great have never played hardcore conquest. where i have been killed by one frag round from across the map. it funny when a frag round is more powerful the a slug round on hardcore. 4. dice need to quit sucking up to these little call of duty babys that cry about everythig. Dice sorry to say this but u really need to get ur heads out of ur as_s and make the game have there true stats not some bull sh IT one that ur made up to make it even all battlefields have had guns that where better then other why must u screw it up now.

I’m sure that no one from DICE will reply to this, as I’ve been posting this ever since the game was released on several ‘official’ DICE/EA forums and have never gotten any response. But what the heck, here goes anyways………

Please consider reducing the amount of on-screen HUD clutter.

1. Please use the conquest flag capturing indicator that is in BFBC2. Do not bring up the large circular ‘C’ meter right in the middle of the screen just above the gun’s sights, as it just obscures the player’s view even more. Just stick with BFBC2′s audible ‘ticking’ meter at the bottom left of the screen.

2. Please remove the names of the conquest capture points/flags (warehouse, docks, construction site, etc.) and just stick with A, B, D, etc. This does NOTHING for the player and it just clutters up the screen even more. I HAVE NEVER HAD A PROBLEM IN COMMUNICATING TO MY SQUAD THAT “I’M CAPTURING B”, for example. If you feel that it’s absolutely necessary to name these flags, just list them on the map when you spawn/hit pause. IMO, this is just extra font that obscures your view of more important things…….LIKE THE ENEMY!

3. Please reduce all icons and fonts by @25% for the console. Most people use larger screens these days and if you compare console to PC, it is noticeably smaller. This looks better and opens up the screen more. Can you mirror the sizes of the fonts/icons on PC over to the console and/or give the player two sizing options?

4. Treat the way your squad’s (green) name tags show, just as the other (blue) team mates, by that I mean don’t show their name unless you point your sights directly at them. Just show their green kit icon (wrench, cross-hair, medic symbol/cross) to distinguish them from the rest of your friendlies.

5. Remove the squad leader icon (star) from the player, just leave it next to their name in the lower left squad list. This star should especially be removed from the other blue team member’s names……..there’s no point in knowing who the squad leader is in a squad that you’re not in. In many rounds you see that there are 3 or 4 players that are in squads by themselves, making them the squad leader. Now you have the star and triangle floating around, totally unnecessary.

I realize some of these things may seem small, but I think you’ll agree that collectively, they add up to a bunch of on screen clutter that obscures your view and detracts from the beauty of the game.

Yup, 100% on the money. The more you play any game the more you get used to these little issues, but they still remain and should have been improved. As a lover of conquest on BFBC2 the most annoying thing I discovered in my first playthrough of BF3 was the circular flag (A)(B)(C) etc. indicator that pops up smack bang in the middle of your screen and doesn’t move. Why? The way it worked in BC2 was ideal – you don’t even need the ticking sound, just an indicator in the bottom corner.

Also agree with the other indicators and on-screen fonts. Crucial information in a lot of cases, but can be downsized. The pointless information (like squad leader star icons etc.) shouldn’t be there.

Frag rounds were annoying in the smaller close-quarter maps, especially conquest Operation Metro for me. Not that they were overpowered or constantly killing me, more so that useless players were able to spam areas with shots that would kill players via splash damage rather than direct hits. It shouldn’t have been put into the game from the off. Remove it, I won’t miss it.

The new patch fixed and improved quite a number of issues but it also ruined a lot of things that were previously fine. The gun balancing seems strange. Inaccuracy under suppression is annoyingly off – suppression blurs your view to a point where your actually accuracy and vision will suffer anyway, adding extra wobble and bounce just makes it horrible. If DICE were so confident with their product on release then why change so much now? I respect that they will listen to their community and all the critics and complaints, but perhaps all those gamers who don’t come on to blogs/forums and complain are fairly happy with how things are/were?

The gun updates were crap. huge amounts of recoil now and accuracy level is all over the board. Making guns more equal is just crazy. I thought DICE was all about “real weapon accuracy”. I guess there is no point in the weapon details and caliber size now. There was no problem with frag rounds. Anyone could use them, there was no advantage to either side. I have not had any problems with players using it against me. The MAV as an elevator was pretty cool in my opinion. to all who say it is unfair, I beg to differ. I would shoot everyone off a building without problem. If you think about it, they are stuck on the roof of a building. That is one less person you have to worry about when arming an MCOM. Dramatic fire Suppression is overwhelming now. You get shot at with a pistol and your suppressed. Whats up with that??? The one good thing I like with the patch is the fact that the copper pilot gets more assist points now. If you think about it, they have to evade rockets and obstacles. Overall, Updates needed to be done but Dice broke things that weren’t broken.

+1 to the bit about weapons and suppression. Weapons and ammo only really vary by RoF and recoil pattern now.

-1 to the MAV comments though. You’ve obviously never played TDM, let alone TDM on gulf. There are places you can get to in TDM maps that are virtually inaccessible and completely covered from fire. You bring in a spawn beacon and a buddy with some med kits and you can basically stay up there the entire map. Sure, you can shoot them down, but unless you got a scope, it will take significantly more effort to hit them, all while you’re being shot at yourself… and they can just heal up and hide until you get killed if they’re getting shot at, whereas you cannot. Doesn’t seem fair to me.

Why couldn’t all weapons have been upgraded to match up with US12 or FAMAS or any other gun that was reduced in some way or another? Shot guns are useless on open maps & as you say were great on DEATH MATCH & now that some of those maps have been expanded the advantage goes pretty much to anyone using a scope on any weapon. Those of us who like using shotguns prefer open or guick sites. I think the first frag round update was necessary but that should have been it! Game is slow and boring now, not just because of US12 but also due to larger maps sometimes hard enough to find someone to kill now even harder. PLEASE at least give us back our BUCH-SHOT & R-O-F for US12!

Now I have a problem with all the USAS HATERS out there. Those who say it’s unfair or feels like an exploit. STFU you crybabies. WE ALL HAVE ACCESS TO THE USAS SO THERE’S NOTHING UNFAIR ABOUT IT!!!! If you choose not to use it then that’s shouldn’t be me problem. And an exploit is something HACKS and CHEATERS do using things not commonly ready to all players. As far as the USAS is concerned I believe it provides excellent balance against these ONE SHOT, ONE KILL, DEADEYE DOUCHEBAGS. Who are either cheating or have really awesome hand eye coordination. I for one and I’m sure I’m not the only one out there, HAVE ABSOLUTELY SHIT EYESIGHT. So weapons like the USAS and the other shot guns help me FEEL MORE COMPETITIVE. TO ALL YOU FREAKIN USAS HATERS! IF YOU DON’T LIKE THE USAS THEN DON’T FREAKIN USE IT. BUT DON’T INFRINGE ON OTHERS ABILITY TO PLAY AND ENJOY THE GAME THEY PAID FOR. And trust me when I say I HAVE SHIT SIGHT. All you have to do is look at my stats. EVEN WITH THE USAS! I don’t see alot of ppl bitchin about the IN YOUR FACE SHOWDOWN BETWEEN A USAS AND A STOOPID M1911 OR SOME OTHER SIMILAR PISS ANT WEAPON AND THE FREAKIN PISS ANT WEAPON WINS EVERY TIME! HUH????? WHERE’S YOUR RESPONSE TO THAT HATERS. THEY DON’T COMPLAIN ABOUT ANYTHING THAT BENEFITS THEM NO MATTER HOW UNFAIR OR UNBALANCED OR UNREALISTIC IT IS. THERE ARE FAR MORE IMPORTANT ISSUES WITH THIS GAME THAN THE USAS. PITCH THE PATCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In truth, the people can go around you, hide in a vehicle, snipe you, mortar you, run you over, knife you (if they have the balls or can even get close), rocket you, join you and if a last ditch effort you got 12(on console) or 32(on pc) bastards coming to get your ass, in which case you hawl ass, to save, inexplicably, your ass.

Also, the removal of the countdown has benefited attacking teams too much. So far I have been part of one defensive win. ONE.
I’m sorry if I sound ungrateful, because you guys have done great work on this game in the past. Key words- in the past. This patch is just awful.
If you limited the power of the frag round (rate of fire/magazine size nerf would have been fine) Dramatically lowered the hp of the mav to a two shot kill with any type of rifle carbine assault rifle or lmg, or even did what this patch has done (mav dies after roadkill) and just removed mav elevators the game would be FLAWLESS. Also, instead of making the insane effects of suppression you have now, why not just make sniper rifles be the only thing to cause this new type of suppression. An LMG was still great for suppression pre patch due to the mag size. Snipers would wind up being more helpful to the team due to the dramatic suppression they possess.
I hate this patch more than words can express. Instead of fixing 3 simple issues, you went and created dozens more for literally no reason.

To be blunt, the “balancing” tweaks are complete garbage. You ruined every single gun in the entire game. This wasn’t a patch, it was a completely new shooter.
The recoil is terrible. It makes for absolutely no consistency in fire fights. Sometimes it feels normal, other times you have trouble hitting people from 10 feet away who aren’t even facing you.
The fore grip is half way useless. The effects of suppression on the control of your fire is completely over dramatic.
The DAO-12 has replaced the USAS as the spamming shotgun of choice. Get a new patch asap. I’ve been playing this franchise since 1942 and I have never seen a patch that did so much to things nobody was complaining about. No DLC money from me until you patch this. Ill check in every now and then to see if you guys fix things up. You completely screwed a good game up. The only things wrong were mav roadkill spamming, elevators, and the USAS being a little overpowered. That was all you guys had to work on. Absolutely unbelievable that this patch was released.

IMO, the reason PC users like the 870 is ’cause it’s easier to get on target with the mouse which makes the more damaging gun more effective; the Xbox is harder to control and therefore one would need the full auto (you most likely aren’t going to get a direct shot anyway).

Why would the Battlefield Blog be so focused on infantry weapons and specific types of rounds?
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For that matter, why would the Battlefield 3 gameplay lead put so much time and energy into the infantry weapons?
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What about other important gameplay areas in need of desperate attention?
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Did you know that random players in the same squad can not use in-game VoIP?

Alan, I can tell you why there is an issue with the USAS12 and frag rounds.
It has nothing to do with how many people use it or how many times you die from it overall.
It is considered overpowered and annoying because you cannot beat it in a perceived fair fight.
BFBC2 had a trailer that showed 2 players rounding the corner and killing each other at the same time.
We as players have grown to like this about your current products. A balance if you will.
This never happens when someone is using the USAS12 with frag rounds. Even if you get the drop on another player in a tight situation. The above weapon always comes out on top, winning the engagement. To the point were the player on the losing end can guess, before reading the death chart, that he must have been up against the dreaded USAS12 with Frag rounds.

i agree completely, also something very annoying is getting killed clear across the map with that ammo, i was on the crossing map and i saw the guy bearly in a window, i shot at him with a scoped M4a1 hit him a few times, then he started shooting with his usas12 and frag ammo, it was blowing up all around me, i stepped back and was unsurpressed pulled out my rpg to blow up his building fired 6 rockets in that window got hit markers and then die to his frag ammo. its stupid unless you blow them up with m320′s or rpgs or snipe them, its 70%-30% they will beat you at ranged firefight. and at close range only a shotgun with buckshot beats it. which shouldnt be teh case.

to be honest the FAMAS is now too underpowered and with the recoil now makes the gun unusable figuring it is a unlock for everyone who downloaded the B2K pack and the only reason anyone complained about it is the fact that they do not have it and are being killed by it , honestly do u guys not take this in to account when figuring out how to balance a weapon i have 32 FAMAS service stars and i have never bitched about the gun when other people kill me with it because i kill them with it as well its when you get whiny COD players in the game and say the famas is too overpowerd its to accurate that you get a bad fix for a weapon, honestly the usas need to be fix beacause it was just outgunning every weapon in the game in close quarters but now i fell it it more balance with other weapons, and i understand the people who think the famas is overpowered have and opinion too but why can u let the people who like the famas the way it was defend it,(talking before patch HERE) i understand that the gun has a superfast fire rate but the recoil on the weapon makes up, and the weapon needed its clip reduced do to reality issues but when patch came out weapon is completely screwed it is under powerd against any and all rifles and machine guns when clip size go’s down damage should go up (slightly but still should keep up with other rifles) since patch i like that there is no imput lag and that the game seems to be more fair on the weapon side of things(excluding the FAMAS) and how the maps on tdm are bigger and what not, but i still dont like the fact that you guys (DICE and EA) listen more to COD players then players who have been playing Battlefield since Battlefield started. this is my opinion and i am entitled to it just like everyone else

whats this fascination all you so called bf players seem to have with cod players? have you ever played cod sniper099??? i believe the famas is also a very popular gun on cod. reason being that the famas on cod is very accurate, has good range, has a high fire rate, not much recoil and kills people quick and effectively. just like it used to on bf3 before the patch. so don’t really see your point mate??????? i actually agree with you that they’ve ruined the famas, in fact i think they’ve ruined all of the best weapon in bf3. i wasn’t a big user of the famas but it used to be a good gun. i would use the usas 12 and mg36 more often. i quite liked the aek 971 assault rifle but its just not as good as it was now. i used to always have the g53 in conquest games but don’t really use it now. the m60 has become one of my most used weapons as its one of the few decent guns left in the game. so me as a player who most of the time plays battlefield but sometimes likes a quick go on cod, i’d strongly suggest in future you be more thoughtful of your narrow minded comments.

As an Xbox player, I have been smashed by the USAS/frag too many times. I am often in the mood for some choke point play on maps like Metro and Bazaar, that weapon is/was just too powerful. Entire spaces like the ticket hall and corridors can be cleansed by one guy in a few moments. It doesnt matter how cautious you are, what cover you take. It always FELT like an exploit or an unfair advantage being used by players who just wanted an easy round to notch up a lot of easy kills without having to play too tactically, get a ton of points, rank up and a few ribbons.
Bad enough with just one enemy using it, get 2, 3 or even more using it and it forces the other side to tool up with it too = not good gameplay, not good fun, unless of course your using it.
I have not unlocked USAS, not even picked one up on the floor so have never used it, have to admit to feeling a bit annoyed if I notice a friendly on my team using it.
Interesting stats between platforms, pity us xbox players (most affected) didnt get the rebalance first.
This video I would say is fairly typical situation : http://youtu.be/Js-ZSKpa4k4
Anyway Im glad it been addressed so thanks on that point.
Happy to hear you guy are always looking at tweaks and rebalances, as I dont have the patch yet – have to tell you Im concerned at what I am hearing about the new weakness of tank armour – Is this something to do with ‘Armoured Kill’ ?

I’ll be honest, I use FRAG rounds. I use them on the USAS, but only on semi-fire. I also use them on the MK3A1(B2K shotgun), but to only to show the noobs with the USAS that they are playing with dedicated and skilled player because most people I have seen don’t have the MK3A1 unlocked. Either way, here is an apology for ruining your time in BF3. Warmonger out.

DICE, Well, Alan, as well,
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Wouldn’t it be better to talk about these much more important topics?
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Demize99 (Alan Kertz, a DICE gameplay lead) on 12 FEB 2011
“…alienating our core audience or transforming Battlefield into some generic shooter clone simply will not accomplish that. Have some bloody faith will you?”
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Demize99 on 14 FEB 2011
“…I’m not ready to directly address your concerns this early, but I’m confident what Battlefield 3 has to offer will provide an innovative and deep Integrated Teamwork experience… It’s going to be a good year to be a hardcore Battlefield fan.”
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What happened??
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Where is the evidence of a “deep Integrated Teamwork experience” in BF3?
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Let’s talk about Commander, Squad Leader function/abilities, Communication Rose function, and functioning in-game in-squad VoIP.
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Fighting for the Soul of Battlefield – http://forums.electronicarts.co.uk/battlefield-3/1440057-fighting-soul-battlefield.html
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So, what do you have to say, Alan?

Forget clearing entire buildings, the USAS Frag can take entire buildings down. Its a joke. Please somebody do something about it! It’s so insane, I know someone who got his first service star for it without actually unlocking it.

They actually did more then that, the USAS/Frags are not a problem anymore… But now it is the tweaks they have done to the anti vehicle ammunitions, and nerf of repair too, that they have overdone a little bidl…

The frag rounds are too powerful at any range, and when twinned with the USAS a player can fire 12 (now 9) shots in very fast succession, add to this the USAS has virtually no recoil and you have a noob weapon, I get killed by this weapon AT LEAST 40% of the time, playing on xbox normal servers and there is no defence against it because it also causes splash damage. I have seen low level players wipe out entire rooms of enemies in less than 4 seconds.

I haven’t experienced the patch yet, I understand you have reduced the fire rate a bit and lowered the magazine size, now we just need the recoil to be added, even if the USAS in reality doesn’t have much it needs to be done for the sake of balance.

The BF3 players (the good ones who don’t rely on the USAS/frag as a crutch) will thank you.

This is ridiculous. I saw the Update list and was not impressed. the fact that you want to balance everything is a bit over the top. I understand this is not completely authentic but come on. Some things are just complete BS. Like when I’m in CQB and I run across an opponent at less than 5 paces and I lay into him with my USAS and he kills me with a pistol or any other weapon for that matter. The whole pistol thing just adds insult to injury. Try balancing that crap out. FAIR AND BALANCED!?!? What is this FOX.

Personally I can’t stand frag rounds at all. They feel cheap and nooby. I love shotguns honestly, but if rather use buckshot. It annoys me to see higher level players running around with frag rounds. Pre patch, it took no skill to empty 10 explosive rounds into someone from 10 feet away. the new patch helped, but they still seem way overpowered. I like the fire rate reduction idea though. I think it might help players to actually have a chance against some noob with am auto shotty with frag rounds. Id rather use a real weapon anyways

BF3 completely sucks now. Every Fn round, be it conquest or rush, is completely one sided. I’ve been in rounds where its 8 to 12. No use in even getting in a tank unless your team is dominating. Don’t feel like playing now. If I bought this game now I would trade it.

Well the 870 is most popular on pc because pc users have the advantage and accuracy of the legendary MOUSE. Its easy to hip fire with a 870 or any other semi- auto gun because u know that ure gonna get the guy 80% of the time, but with console the controller lacks the accuracy. Its hard to maintain the joy sticks and hard to aim… Especially with the xbox controller.

I’m curious where you get your stats of 1.8%, 3%, and 4%. I know from experience on both PS3 and Xbox 360 that I am shot by the USAS-12 a much larger percentage than 3-4%. I would be interested to know if you are taking your stats from the beginning of time, or say the past couple of months when a majority of players have now unlocked the weapon. Also, I would be interested to see a breakdown based on game mode, such as Conquest vs Rush. I primarily play Conquest and would guess I die from the USAS-12 roughly 10% of the time overall, and more on maps such as Operation Metro where it’s close quarters and no vehicles. The 10% guess would include all deaths, whether by vehicles, guns, etc.

Notice he didn’t give the ‘per map’ breakdown. He mentioned later, Metro and Bazaar were the maps where the USAS were most often used. I’d like to see the stats on just those maps, because in Metro, I’d say 80% of my deaths are by a USAS.

FIX this game, new patch ruine this game, open Your eyes, check your forums on battlelog! listen players! this game for people who buy it or only for team DICE? Learn more about weapons if you are NOT expert in guns! DICE learn anything about weapons ! http://world.guns.ru/

Actually, no.. That’s completely stupid. A realistic videogame would have everyone screaming imbalances. For a game to be successful, and more importantly, fun, it needs to have some unrealistic characteristics. >.>

By the way, what do you think they can learn from guns.ru that isn’t already in the game? Haha.

how is that you can shoot someone dead in the fucking chest 15 fucking times and not fucking kill them fffiiiixxx ttthhhiiiissss fffuuuuccckkkiiiinnngg gggaaaammmmmeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That’s the problem that’s REALLY bugging me. It only happened occassionally before, but now, it seems like most of the time, I empty a whole clip into a guy, and he doesn’t die. I see the blood splatters, and I am too close to be missing him. Yet, he turns around while I’m reloading, and pops 1 or 2 shots into me, and I’m dead. I suspect it’s the netcode though, since I’ve been experiencing a lot of lag since this new patch too (again, I had lag/rubberbanding before too, but not so often)

I love this game more then you guys my ever know i have always been and always will be a Battlefield fan from the days of 1942 to now and on the only thing i ask for is settings for the tanks and the planes i play with a mouse for PS3 and it moves real slow thats all i ask for THANKS DICE keep up the great work can’t wait till JUNE.

Also, you guys made a great game, you shouldn’t buckle to people complaining that it isn’t exactly the way they want it. I would like to see the stats on who wants what changed based on “Hardcore” and “Normal” game type.

The people that whine about the Frag Rounds should actually go shoot a HE round for a Real Shotgun and see exactly what it does.
I guarantee you that once you see the damage that it does you won’t think twice about what it will do to a fleshy target. Sure the splash damage can and should be reduced…but when I hit you with this round, it should hurt. Its a 19mm EXPLOSIVE Round!
IDK, I feel that for an unlock that takes a LONG time to get, it isn’t even really worth it anymore.

BF3 was fine, DICE did not do a bad job making the game, they did a GREAT job, one of the best in fact, if anything they are making the game worse with these patches. In my case i have never had any problems with the game at all until these patch came in.
Is people who somehow always manages to ruin games, same thing has happened before to other FPS games, and now is happening to BF3 because of people who takes advantage of certain things like frag rounds or the MAV “elevator” case, but the answers for these problems are in the game itself, if you cant kill a guy with frag rounds.. then honestly idk what are you doing playing BF3, the MAV just get your stinger and boom!.
Also im agree with harrow, DICE why did you make other guns weaker and the tanks as well??? you guys didn’t have to do that at all, (don’t fix what isn’t broken) the main problem was the usas and the MAV that was it. DICE don not listen to people that whines too much, most of the people who plays BF3 right now (in consoles) have never played the other battlefields, and they are used to other gameplay or style (going solo, not helping teammates, rushing) or whatever and they cant adapt to BF so they either start using cheap tricks (MAV) or start whining too much to change things on the game that don’t need to be changed, you are making an awesome game look like sh*t, Stop digging your own grave DICE.

And idk if anybody remember this but like one man once said “Sure it matters who’s got the biggest stick, but it matters a hell of a lot more who’s swinging it. In another words the gun is not what matters, but skill.

Maybe it could be always good to restrict ammo regen, i mean you get a support with the USAS and they just get through the whole game constantly refueling himself running and gunning through the whole map

Great Dice! We feel really reassured that you’re going to continue patching the game. It only took what, 6 months to release the second patch? And some of the patch notes are just flat out lies. You need to get away from EA. Dice is obviously talented, but clearly EA is rushing you too much out of the gate, and you’re making mistakes that are proving to be difficult to fix later on.

Really ? These rounds has almost the same amout of damage as a F18 rounds?? So WHY not equip the troops on the frontlines in afeghanistan with that??
You really want us to believe that? tell us another story, that one is bad one

My theory to the FRAG round issue. (I do not use them, I find them ineffective in my style of play. I am a fan of pump action shotguns so I live and die with my 870 MCS. I have a rare moment when I switch from buck-shots to flachette rounds.)

The theory: There are two sides to a coin, yeah FRAG rounds may need and may have needed some fine tuning. This is a multiplayer game, testing can only bring to light so many issues, MILLIONS of people doing god only knows how many things at once can bring out an unthinkable amount of information. So with this in mind, everyone think about it, is it a game play tech issue only or is it a player-abuse issue?

It can be said about many online games, “It didn’t ruin the game or destroy it, people did.” Could this be more of the case?

I hate automatic shotguns. Its just a personal fact about myself. I also do not like FRAG rounds. Remove them from the game? Nah, you shouldn’t need to, I would hope. Could the issue be fix with removing it as round for the USAS and the other FULL auto shotgun the MK? I think that could solve a lot problems people have. I have been on the receiving end where you have 6 players rolling around with this kit and just plowing through teams and destroying you and your spawn, but I have also shown them why a 870 buckshot is to be feared and why skill will always win a gun fight.

I have more issue with this small but VERY inconvenient fact. Why can’t we throw grenades through windows? You know breaking them? DICE please explain this. I have throw MANY a grenades only to have it bounce back at me, and better yet, why does the window stop a RPG or SMAW rocket at close distance? I swear they can be shoot by bullets and knifed, but the none above mentioned? What the hell? Also the hell can we not climb over certain things, every time on Operation Metro when attacking in rush, when live the subway the building on the right, those little black railings? Impossible to jump over a few specific ones, its just annoying in a pinch. On that defending side? That last point of the map, if you run up the stairs on the far right, and try the same on similar railings, same thing. It drives me NUTS. Another issue I have is Javelins that home in on a lazed target in the air and they circle around it in the air furiously and then, poof. Miss. Not out ran or hit a rock. Just poof like two feet behind it blows up and misses. I may be missing something here but what is that all about?

I’ve played PC a lot, but I own an XBOX and that is my main. Fact of life here, I do not have money for a PC build at this time. One day I will make the jump, till then I’ll mooch off my cousin for free. I have a slightly more overshadowed to us players on consoles. On PC players can put out a messaged to their whole team, you know like someone asks for someone to laze a target publicly. I LOVED it. Can we get that on consoles somehow? I mean put up a preset list of requests for things like “Laze Ground Vehicles” “Laze Air Vehicles” “Laser is up for Javelins” A way to put out the word to a whole team not just your squad. How about remapping the “Back” and “Select” buttons so went you hold them you pull up a list such as this? Screw the score board feature, it not all that important out on the field. Look at it from the spawn or when you pause the menu.

This is all I got at the moment on me. Just my thoughts and my input. Before you go on a yell back, take a moment breathe and read slowly. It’s just my side/view of things. Maybe you end up playing worse people, maybe better people, maybe people who PTFO. I don’t always get that lucky.

Moot point because the new patch has killed the game. the assault class may as well not be there. The balancing is pathetic. Vehicles die so easily now its ridiculous 1to 2 rpgs to kill a tank no fucking way same goes for the rest. good to see damage improvements to sniper rifles that maybe one thing they did right this patch. so as of this moment i wont be supporting dice until the rectify the assault class and its weapons because they were fine before( dont fix what isnt broken). So its going to be a game full of snipers and engineers brilliant. the time and efforts thousands of players have put in to be repaid by fucking up the classes and weapons is an out rage you(dice) are basically telling me how you want me to play the game i paid for which is not fucking on. When you should of been putting efforts into changing the super unrealistic mortars and sniper glint. instead you fuck over a mass majority of vet playersplayers for the whingy little 15 year old codites. congratulations you just lost a fan.

Although I agree with a lot of what you had to say, I have to point out that they don’t need real battlefield veterans stamping on the ground with a ‘final’ comment on some dead end blog post and leaving.. What they do need is for us to band together, stand up and announce that we are here to help them with what they’re doing wrong. Cracking the shits over some decisions, debatable whether poor or not, is no way to improve a game nor have the community on your side.

Thumbs up. I love BF3 and only want to see it get better. In regards to the FAMAS and USAS-12 w Frag; I took on FAMAS players with the F2000 no problem; I took on the USAS -12 players by using a USAS -12, no problem. I took on grammar and lost.

My redesign of frag rounds:
• If an enemy receives impact damage, they will not receive splash damage (wow, did I just fix the entire imba design of the current frag rounds?) Shooting directly at someone is less effective than aiming at a surface near them.
• Shooting at someone in your face will give them impact damage and give you splash damage, killing you before them.
• The design of this ammunition should promote smart game play as opposed to running and gunning; you want to give the enemies maximum exposure to the splash while still remaining behind cover, and out of splash range, yourself.
• Single projectile, not a pellet spread like how it currently is.

Don’t really want them to be an ineffective weapon, though. Militaries don’t send their troops out with none but harsh language to intimidate their foes. Not to digress, but I personally disagree with the whole suppression mechanic; it’s overpowered and unnecessary. If it’s worth anything, I think they should make it a server option and let those who hate it filter it out. That, or make it hardcore-only, which would lead me to never playing hardcore, ever.

To construct upon your comment, however.. Perhaps they should make the frag rounds practically ineffective as a combat weapon, and make it do extreme suppression, perhaps more than what is currently in the game; make it so if you’re suppressing someone with frag rounds that they will have less than sniper-noscope accuracy for the better part of 5 seconds after the last frag round has hit nearby. This would make it an effective tool for use in proper clan matches, and perhaps a necessary inclusion for every decent squad. That said, though, aren’t LMGs meant to be the suppression weapons of the game?

To say that frag rounds pre-patch were only useful at close range is flawed. When my friends and I tested what they could do in a live game situation, we were all able to effectively snipe with the frag rounds and kill in 1/2 hits.

Unfortunately being an XBOX user we dont have the patch yet but from what I have seen on livestreams and youtube. The patch seemed to have fixed the USAS issue but we’ll see when I can test it myself.

In response to KYKY132, there is no small arms armour piercing round that would EVER be able to go through an MBT’s armor. Even the .50 unless you put 10+ rounds in the exact same hole.

I meant to give like the sniper class them so that they could help hold back such vehicles such as the LAV, or at least they could do what they did in BFBC2 and make a dart that can be fired that would tag the vehicle.

Giving a sniper the ability to harass a tank, other than laser designation would be ridiculous . I do agree that recon should get rid of the soflam and have a handheld laser device but that would be the extent of it. Tanks should be left to the air support and engineers!

The USAS ,and the tanks for that matter was nerfed too much. I used the USAS to get my 1000 kills with it and then retired it, so I’m not crying about,”my gun”. The people in this community are FUBAR. That’s all. Why would you nerf the USAS when it only accounts for 2% overall kills? And that is an average for all three platforms put together. People are just crying because all this time, they thought they were soooooo good, but couldn’t adapt to it. Asfar as the tanks go, they are too weak and this is coming from someone who does not use the tanks very often. I mean, claymores? Really? Come on DICE, use your heads on this and stop listening to all these crying kids and put a fix, a good fix, to the game once and for all.

So here is a thought that I have had for a while. What about armor piercing rounds? For instance. I myself hate it when a tank rapes my spawn point. I hate it and then the thought came to me. Why cant there be armor piercing rounds? Effective for close range vehicle attacks. Not a weapon to destroy the tank but to go through the metal and kill the driver? But to keep this high powered ammunition from becoming a noobs choice, you only get a limited amount of rounds. Say 40. Whats your thoughts? Email me at sproulkyle@gmail.com if you will.

“A FRAG round is a 19mm High Explosive round, making it of a similar caliber to the rounds fired by the cannons on the F-18!” Demize99 is comparing a small arms weapon to a cannon. This is not an apples to apples comparison. The M203 Grenade Launcher attachment for the M-4/M-16 shoots the same diameter round as a MK19 Grenade Launcher, and both deliver High Explosive Ordnance. However, it is a bad idea to shoot a MK19 round out of a M203 tube.
In order to “balance” the USAS 12: add true accuracy, and limit the damage and suppression effect. Those players that are crying because of the Frag round fail to realize that this experimental round is designed to be shot into an open window and compromise the personnel inside said room. Further more a shot gun does not shoot random patterns. A question arises from Demize99′s statement, “The relatively random nature of pellet spread, or FRAG round accuracy, makes this especially difficult.” If this were true, there would be no use for any type of aiming device. Shot gun patterns can definitely be represented by a normal distribution bell curve for a given distance and caliber.
The MAV “elevator”: There is some concern about the logic that allows the thought process that a remotely operated observation post could effectively lift a full sized man into the air. This is a machine that moderately lifts itself into the air. The visual design is a bumblebee. It has no aerodynamic viability, and would not be as nimble as the game allows. The real world machines that the MAV is imitating still rely on aerodynamic factors to achieve lift, and grant users the intelligence capabilities necessary for the battlefield. These platforms are too small to lift little more than than their own payloads of energy and the surveillance equipment. Those who use the recon class, and the mav, to reach areas of seclusion are not necessarily cheating, but it is a cheap tactic.
The MAV “Weapon”: Again these machines could not function as a killing weapon and return to the battlefield unscathed. The real world devices that are the inspiration for the MAV readily shatter into itty bitty bits when a proper landing is not performed. Use your device as a weapon? Fine but it sustains impact damage in the same manner that the “Jeeps” suffer when rammed into solid objects, i.e. large rocks, solid walls, tanks and other vehicles.

FRAG rounds serve no purpose in the game and no matter how much they are weakened people will still use them and people will still hate them, and so I don’t see why they are not simply removed from the game

irrelivent now, I now see frag rounds just as much as any other shotgun ammunition, unlike before, this means that less peopel use it, and it is now on a balanced scale with all other shotgun ammunitions. nuff said.

DICE, people will always bitch about everything like backstab709 here, the MAV elevator is annoying yes, but 95% of the people that go up there cant hit anything. Also, the USAS with frag rounds is frustrating, but any good player can adapt to his enemies and overcome them. People that only want to use one class and one or two weapons are the people we see whining here. I think the game is amazing and i love playing it. I have no complaints about weapons or gameplay. there are some spots that need to be smoothened out, that will come with time. And i am extremely happy to say you have crushed MW3 nd every other CoD game. I hope you do the same in the future. However, i have never had so many issues connecting with friends. I dont know if the servers were having issues, but i can assure you, it was not my connection or my friends. ITs impossible for all four of us to make a squad and get into a game all the way or if we do to get on the same team. If the connection were to be fixed, then i would have nothing even remotely negative to say about BF3. Again, great job.

true, but, DICE accomplished all I could hope for, the USAS is now used as much as any other ashotgun ammo, pre-patch, I only saw frag rounds used, unless the person didnt have them unlocked, now i see frag’s just as much as a USAS spewing out slugs O_o in the end, perfectly fine with me, and no i didnt bitch about it, yes i thought it was majorly overused, but when going to war, do you really expect to see an army of insurgents ALL with full auto shotguns and frag rounds? no. and yes, back in november, I went through extensive training with my clan at that time, to train me and several others to be precise anti-USAS infantry, which mostly involved my assault M416(luckily no changes to it in patch), reviving many people, and using M39 EMR cqc boosted, along with an m249 when they were swarming little buggers.

so your telling me that a engineer can lay down 6 AT mines and when he dies they will stay there but when i place 2 claymores and i die the disappear how is that balanced PLEASE DICE change that back thats all i ask

perfectly balanced, AT mines dont kill people obviously, and the thing is, many “good” tankers, like me, make use of thermal to destroy mines, mines are simply free points to us, we dont care what happens with them. and a bunch of claymores, this coudl not happen due to balance issues, as if they stayed there, and than you spawned as a recon, this would practically encourage camping, which is specifically why they didnt give anti-personal mines to recon. than you have COD, where there are “campers” left and ruight huddled in corners with large .50 cal’s and claymores all around them.

All you scrubs still crying about USAS:
What about people abusing MAV? That hasn’t been fixed I see people going under OP metro all the time, if I were to report them everytime I saw one, I wouldn’t be able to play my game.
There’s SOOOOOO MUCH still wrong with the game’s basic mechanics on some level/shape/form.
Matchmaking is a complete farce unless you’re playing by yourself, I still can’t hop over some terrain using the jump animation.
Claymores are virtually useless, I think if I can lay 3 down behind a tank and blow them up that the tank should be destroyed, or any vehicle with a certain amount that comes within proximity.
There’s a lot of small things you need to fix DICE before you move onto a new map pack like you already are once you finish up close quarters.

If you guys want this game to be good, you can’t just slap shit together and port it from PC to console.
Too late now though, I’ve already lost faith in BF3 and many other people by the minute.

claymores are direction, and filled with specifically anti-infantry pellets, a claymore is the equivilant of a shotgun with a small very small pack of explsoive residue in it. therefore, unless you can suddenly kill a tank from 4 buckshot rounds, than you cant even hurt a tank, your wildest dreams would barely include damaging the tracks of a tank. in short, this guy is very deluded, and extreamly crazy for putting his own “thoughts” down here, without any real world to back them up

a game is ment to be a game, not to be some extreamly realistic thing, the more people that go down there, the less people to shot at you, as it is very ineffective to use MAV elevators or drops, for anything except enjoying the view, the messing with the people who are up there from the other team. I was trained quite thouroughly as anti-USAS infantry, involving using standard breaching tactics, to unroute them. so please, be quiet. and oh yea, thats right, a claymore(god cant spell), which is full of ANTI-infantry pellets, those pellets, about the size of a BB, will definently penetrate a tank, no they can barely penetrate a HMV.
And aside from that, DICE has nothing else to fix in this game, EVERY SINGLE GAME OUT THERE HAS GLITCHES/BUGS, it is absolutely unavoidable, I know from experience as a beta tester for square enix. so please, will you quit complaining, if you were playing cod, this patch would have been considered a costing DLC, as it added, private servers, and other such thing, and changed many things. they produced a game, you paid for that game, the bug fixes, and glitch fixes, and balance fixes, are simply COURTESY, so please, show some of your own, and leave these fantastic programmers, ALONE, if you cant congratulate them on a good job.

Eh, man, Im not too worried about frag rounds. I play on 360 (mostly metro) and like Alan said I get killed maybe 1/25x by the USAS. Perhaps a little more but not much really. The trick is, Aim around corners dont run or spray because chances are the USAS user is cocky and just runs around corners thinking he can kill whatevers around them instantly. But then there you are meeting him/her with a wall of lead.

I never comment anything, ever! But I just have to say to all you F***** whiners that whine all the time and then whine a little more about every small detail in the game: Go play something else, you’re not good enough to play anyway.

USAS-12 w/frag: Yes I have died from it many times, but if you’re a SMART and a GOOD player you just work around it! A faster gun will kill the uses guy before he even knew you where there.

RENT A SERVER: OMG, I just have to say OMG. You can’t even afford a tiny few $ for a REAL server that is standing somewhere being operated and maintained and also using power.. Only since you bought this game doesn’t give you the right to have EVERYTHING dice makes for free. “Would you like a hot dish and a beer with that server maybe?”

AND TO EVERY OTHER WHINE: You guys are so busy whining you can’t even see all the good things anymore. It’s a great game so stop whining and be happy with it, if not, just go play cod or minecraft, I bet you love that! HEY, GO WHINE ABOUT MINECRAFTS GRAPHICS WILL YOU??!!

YOU SEEM TO TAKE MY POST ALMOST PERSONAL WITH YOUR USE OF EXPLETIVES,DO YOU REALLY FEEL SO ANGRY ABOUT A POST THAT YOU TAKE AS IF IT WERE A REMARK ON YOU. I THINK YOU SHOULD TAKE A STEP AWAY FOR A MOMENT AND REALLY READ MY POST AS IT WAS MADE AS GAMERS FEED BACK TO THE DEVELOPER AND NOT YOU BUT IF YOU FEEL SO INSULTED THEN MAYBE YOU SHOULD JUST STOP PLAYING THIS GAME AND SEEK A THERAPIST. BY THE WAY I MADE OVER $80,000 DOLLARS LAST YEAR ( I’M THE CAPTAIN OF A SHRIMP BOAT) SO NOW WHEN YOU SPEAK TO ME YOU WILL BE BETTER INFORMED BEFORE YOU REPLY TO A COMMENT I POST.OH YA AND I’M A 40 YEAR OLD MAN WHO HAS CHILDREN YOUR AGE SO I’M NO KIDDIE.

very well said, and yes, all those damn people saying – “we should get the servers free!!” – because oh yea, thats right, noone maintains those servers, noones powers those servers, EA didnt buy those servers. but then again, you guys bought the game, your entitled to a 5,000$ server and all the stuff needed to keep it up…. Keep it up, hope to see you on the battlefield(btw, I find dice did accomplish what I wanted, which is balance, I now see frag ammo as much as ANY other shotgun ammom, this means their now all equilally used, this is very good, and now, i say job well done)

See “FRAG rounds would allow players with shot guns a round with limited combat effectiveness but the capability to harass and suppress opponents at longer distances” is all well and good but that’s not how it worked at launch.

USAS w/frags splash DAMAGE is silly. It rewards players who can’t aim and matching them with frag rounds makes it the most forgiving CQB weapon in the game. No other weapon can do rapid splash damage and still hit effectively from the hip.

Furthermore there’s almost no skill ceiling to using this setup other than positioning (which almost every weapon requires anyways). It’s like playing Pyro in TF2, you just gotta get close and hold W+M1 and try to live through the experience. This degrades the game and gives an easy out to terrible players.

You must be new to the BF franchise and a console kiddie at that. BF has always had rent-a-server since the day of BF1942, at least on the PC. Maybe you should stick to COD anyway. We have to many Cawadoody kids as it is already.

THAT’S FINE THAT IT’S A RENT A SERVER BUT IF YOU READ THE FIRST LINE OF MY POST IT SAYS QUICK JOIN OPTION WITH BASIC GAME MODES(I.E. SETTINGS) AND RENT- A -SERVER SHOULD HAVE BEEN LEFT IN THE SERVER BROWSER.AND AS FOR ALL YOUR DUMB REMARKS ABOUT CONSOLE KIDDIE, CALL OF DUTY BLAH,BLAH, GROW THE FUCK UP. YOU TALKING LIKE YOUR SOMEBODY BUT PEOPLE WHO FEEL THE NEED TO MAKE CHILDISH REMARKS SUCH AS YOU ARE PEOPLE WHO HAVE LOW SELF ESTEEM AND ARE LOOKING FOR ATTENTION. SO GO FIND ANOTHER POST TO FIND SOMEONE WHO HAS A LOWER I.Q.

lol this guy is such a noob, it doesnt reward anyone, it rewards skill, as I find with a good trigger finger, I can take down anyone at any range(excluding small gun vs. large vehicle), as I have killed many many USAS users point blank with my m416 point blank pre-patch, and in the end, DICE has accomplished all I coudl hope for, which is balance, I now exceptionally find that frag round are used just as much as ALL other shotgun ammo types, fantastic, plus shotguns I find as used as any other weapon now, for granted im now going up against the pewpew spew spew gun(pp19 – something the cod players brought with them), but in shrot fantastic job, wasnt complaining in the first place, didnt see any need for change, but now im actually going to stay ingame. and its really sad, I got BF3 at launch for PS3, since i didnt think my PC could handle it(had played ALL previous BF games on home console when possible, even played fantastic codename eagleback in 1996 :) than I bought my new gaming PC in dec, now wish I had gotten it for PC, as ive always been part of the modding community, for games :l good luck to you, and hope to see ya on the battlefield sometime soon :D

BrotherPappy you are a little bitch… the mav elevator is a great idea a sniper can not snipe on the ground. yes it is possible but you cant see an do overwatch on the pavement you need a big building. Being able to use the mav is so that snipers can snipe without the worry of getting knifed every fucking game trust me i would know. i have over 600 dog tags taken my idiots most of them sniping. The choice to be able to get on a rooftop with the only worry of getting sniped or shot at. Now unless bf3 gives the sniper the claymore. The snipers will need the mav if your gonna bitch about the mav go to COD that game takes no skill.bf3 is all about team work from the medic to the sniper. the team must work togeather how simply by everyone doing their job. a sniper will help detemine who wins who loses….. so the mav is needed to be able to see around the map. Only to help his fellow teammates win. now before you call me a guy without any luck or a cod player or a little kid….. im 21 an i dont play cod i refuse to play cod or to even act like i play that game…… so BrotherPappy stop your bitching an just play the damn game if you dont like it leave the game shit happens. you bitch bout the mav but what bout the people who do nothing but drive tanks, helis, jets, put c4 like i do on the jeeps…… fyi i dont do tanks

Camping on the buildings of Gulf of Oman like a little turd is no team play at all. It just makes you a useless. If you don’t want the risk of getting knife, don’t camp. You lot are annoying enough as it is when you take a loaded helicopters and baill out of it without telling anybody killing them all, just so you can sit on your moronic arse on that crane or building.

First of, anyone who thinks the game depends on the sniper is an idiot. Snipers are camping pussies who only care about their K/D and that my friend is why u love the MAV. The players that decide the game are the ones down on the front line defending the flag/m-com or blowing the shit up. All you do is lay on your ass and hope your k/d is what you want at the end of the round. The reason you get stabbed??? because you suck, the recon class has the motion detector for a reason. So yes, keep using the MAV elevator while you can, btw they arent taking it out cuz people get killed from these noobs that hide on buildings. theyre taking it out cuz u all suck at contributing to the team.

Oh ajax….you’d just be another headshot victim…and while I was up on some building just sitting on my ass worrying about my K/D I’d wipe my ass with the squad swipe ribbons and surveillance ribbons I had….I’m not gonna defending all snipers who just sit and watch…I’m not one of those snipers, I’m the one that’s pissing you off from too way too far away, tagging enemies, talking to my team and popping heads with my L96 like they were pimples … snipers need to be able to get on top of buildings, they need to be up high to do there job right, anyone who says snipers don’t play an important roll in the game has a low IQ and needs a helmet and bib. Dice needs to put in ladders or stairways on tall buildings, at least that way snipers don’t have to MAV up and a skilled, smart player who’s tired of being sniped can have a shot at going up there and taking him out, and that would be fair and people could stop bitching about people MAV-ing onto buildings.

i would say camping is part of the game. all you can do is except it cause i don’t see it changing in any first person shooter. your complaint is like a boxer complaining about getting hit in the head to much ha ha

Omg you so screwed up this game with this rent a server crap,quick join option should of stayed with the basic game modes instead of throwing us in some lame ass lobby with some idiots idea of cool server settings. I was just starting to really enjoy this game, now its just going to collect dust but hey its all about you making money and not about us gamers the ones that buy your games.now that I’ve bought the game I have to pay for my own server rental or play by someone else’s rules. Fail !!!!!! And let’s not forget that sniper shotgun the usas12 with some magical power of being able to shot you from distances that are hard to hit with a combat rifle,its a freaking shotgun for Christ sake. New BF3 = FAIL

usas-12 again as before, in a real combat to 12 ‘is not like a machine gun that also is not like a sniper, the usas-12 was there to be used by any player just getting to level 43 which is no difficulty, you are spoiling the game ceases to be a simulator to do the will of half a dozen players, now packs even more selling of arms to any level, what’s the fun to level up has already released all at level 1?

Why is there not a Mossberg 500 in the game its been the longest running shotgun in military and civilian use. Why does everyone ignore the good guns like throw in a tiger 10/22 sniper for fun or a Springfield xdm for a pistol or even release weapon add ons with these and charge 50ms points or whatever console u uses monetary system and make it so everyone can use the guns they might take to the range on the weekend. And I haven’t used my shotguns enough to get the drag rounds but I’ve picked one up before and I liked em

I really think that frag rounds have way to much accuracy especially with the new automatic shotgun from Back to Karkand (The Jackhammer). If you take the accuracy away and do the fire rate drop I think most or some people at least would leave the fabulous derp rounds for other weapons like smgs.

The only problem I see with the frag rounds is the lag that comes with them. Shoot somebody and 5 seconds after you stop shooting they drop dead from a frag round I shot. It works vice versa too…love just dropping dead from residual frag rounds 20 ft away from me that were fired well before I moved into that area.

And this is an overall statement to you and other guys on the Gameplay Team….Quit listening to whiners and fix the real problems. You know problems like the constant freezing on Xbox 360….poor player clipping…poor hit detection and hit markers with no loss of health. One other thing that needs severe attention….BAD LUCK! I’m sorry these are supposed to be soldiers…I don’t think stepping off a pebble would kill any of them.

This is supposed to be the best game but it just seems sloppy and rushed. I do enjoy playing it but I keep thinking what could have been if it wasn’t such a race to get the game out.

As for frag rounds.. I for one support them. A game in a modern warfare setting should be adapting to modern developments in weaponry and ammunition. In all honesty I would balance them by not letting them detonate past a certain range. It’s a more futuristic change, but it would make balancing of frag rounds a lot easier, and would keep them useful for their intended use.. long range and suppression whilst not having the close and/or mid range capabilities of a slug.

It has been touted that prolonged contact with these projectiles contain a carcinogen which leads to adenocarcinomas. While these statements have not been entirely adopted by the American Medical Association, numerous reports of colorectal carcinoma have been reported in troops on the front lines.

Further studies indicate that: Once the fragmentation rounds were removed, 93.2% of patients went into remission, and the only people left with ass cancer were the individuals using them consistently. Such is the story of Modern Warfare on the Battlefield.

There is a you tube video of damage before and after wards and according to the video direct and splash damage was changed.
For me, I have to see it in action but I really don’t feel that direct damage should have been changed, but splash damage should have been. Also I think splash damage was the gripe people had.

P.S. Hey Alan, no poll for next week’s Inside dice question? I really like you guys had a poll.

All these constant tweaks. Most the weapons seem to fire all so differently now. And same for the attachments. It’s like having to get used to a whole new game all over again. And I was used to firing while moving, but I can’t do that anymore cause the accuracy while trying to fire on the move goes to crap.

hey. On the ps3 i would say the use og frag rounds properly has declined with about 60-70 % wich is very nice,, maps as metro and bazar is very enjoyable now… the patch also makes you have try even harder to get your kills the weapons are much more individual now, and it forces you to use the different accessory’s for the various game styles and maps even more than before… it takes more skill now to play.. why would you change squad selection part?? it was perfect before, it gave you a clearer view of the position of your buddy’s and it was easier to switch , to new squad.. when you choose to create a new squad, the game pause a bit ,and that pause sometimes makes the game freeze, just as it does quite frequent when you press the select button, to see scoreboard.
most importantly WE CANT KICK PEOPLE anymore from our squad thats a problem,, why remove that option, its a team orientated game so the option to kick people is very relevant.. its very disturbing that you have to move 3 guys to a new squad, due to 1 single bad team player… its easier to remove that person.. have a nice day out there ;)

What do you mean by bad player?
I have a K/D of 1/3, is someone who can’t shoot and starting out a bad player.
Or …
…Are you talking about some one doing stupid things like vehicle camping, firing rockets at everything, giving off your position, not playing the objective or class

Its quite simple, people who play this game from time to time and log in and actully complain about the USAS and FAMAS arn’t adapt and logic thinking or stratigik thinking. Im 1 of the few who are actully world ranked in the xbox doman and well its all about out thinking ur enemy. Doesn’t matter what weapon the enemy has peaople still complain its human nature. If they loose more they complain more, blame it on DICE its always someone else’s problem never in one self. I other words wanna become a good player, spend more hours playing the game and out think ur enemy.

dude you simplify things, i am also ranked, and so are the most of them i play with, but i gues you have not experienced 11 out of 12 enemy’s using frag rounds in map, its pretty annoying, not that we cant win. what im saying is i like to play against good players, that play the objective. instead of hiding in a corner camping and fragging it gets boring and the game looses its integrity. im kind of tired of hearing guys say mav=stinger frag=flanking ect. I know what to do, we all know but, its all about we want a game were your skills are the main factor for your success , instead of abuse of a wrongly powered weapons usas frag mav, ect.the fact is allot of people has used flaws to boost their character its getting old… but hurra for the private servers ;)

I personally think y’all either need to just make it semi-auto or take it out completely. I used it alot when I first unlocked it and it was fun but now its just ridiculous. Everybody is using it now it gets frustrating getting killed by it cuz u have no chance to react when all they have to do is hold the trigger down and even if they don’t directly hit u u still get damaged from the splash damage. And its even more important to find a balance with the new maps coming out because its all close combat and everybody will b using it. And also I don’t think the number of rounds for the famas should have been reduced it was fine where it was

I have a love hate relationship with the frag round. When your team is in need of a suppression its a good weapon and ammo but when a whole squad on the opposite team is using this combo just to get kills it doesn’t work with me. I am a firm believer of team based game play and that is being ruined by all of these wanna-be Rambo’s. I think that the 12g Frag round should be turned into and incendiary round to stop people from trying to go over kill with it. But when used as its intended purpose its completely fine, otherwise lose it.

I completely agree with you I love team game play and doin what u can to help your team that’s y I love bf3 and usas can help your team but nobody uses it for that they use it for the kills and sometimes to annoy people. And now its hard to find a game without at least 4-6 people using it like that and it gets very annoying

yeah i agree with the incendiary round better lower range but just as suppressive if not more, most peoples instinct is FIRE=BAD, just made me think of something else, where the freaking napalm for jets?! (yeah i know it would make bf3 simmilar to cod, but it fits as well)

How is 1 out of 25 NOT bad? There’s easily more than 50 weapons available, and that’s not including deaths caused by vehicles. Bring in the fact that it’s one of the later weapons you can unlock, and this seems absurdly high.

Anecdotally, I’ve only been killed by a few people who have more than 5 stars on a weapon. The only duplicate weapon? The USAS.

I play 360, I got super bored because I can’t play with anybody without having to dick around with server list and find a good game.
So I just troll people with USAS 12 and FRAG, most effective way to make a boring day fun (when you can’t play with friends). You should see some of the responses I get, people get too butthurt about a game. It was fine before, just a lot of people love using it in close range, it sucked ass at long range (well I didn’t have that much trouble) but at least all the noobs will stop using it now.

I got killed yesterday in 4 matches about 20-25 as a result from a 12g frag. To a point where most players on the other team was using them. And in most cases you couldnt even see the people where. And to add resupply+12g=OVERPOWERED

I’m of the opinion that, in the quest for balance, no full-auto shotgun has a place in an FPS, regardless of ammo type. Maybe my opinion has been slanted by memories of the AA-12 in MW2, but traditionally shotguns in FPSs were very powerful up close, but also slow, so you had to make every shot count. Kind of like a CQ sniper. With full-auto shotguns it doesn’t matter if you miss a few shots, which is where the spam element comes in, and accuracy goes out the window. Just my opinion though, I don’t expect dice to go removing guns that people use.

I do have complaint with the shotgun they seem to be useless upclose sometimes. Sometimes up close they drop a player with one shot as they should. Other times I have done it, drop an entire clip of frag round in a enemy at point blank range and them not die. only to turn around and kill you. I actually have better enemy damage at longer range than I do up close.

You know what? I trust you. I want you to meet my girlfriend: [holds up shotgun frag shell] Omya Kaboom. When Omya’s prime is struck, she give off a miniature warhead that arms itself. And when that happens, anything that gets in my lady’s way becomes instant red sauce and Jell-O. And if that doesn’t work… [holds up a knife] Her sister will. ;) Remember this sh’t at Christmas!

thanks for taking the time to review. not sure where your data starts and finishes but playing metro last night i was certainly killed way more times than 2 in a round by usas frag rounds. im all for using what is given by the game but you might want to consider limiting the distance the round can travel. seen people using scopes on shotties and sniping with them. thanks again for the review.

Well I’m glad you guys are finally trying to balance that stuff up. I really dislike the shotguns myself, but obviously they do have their advantages depending on the situation. But…. Having played BF3 from Beta on the ps3, let me tell you, giving them a freaking machine gun that shoots grenades (usas12 + frag) was a BAD idea. i hate it. i hate it with a passion. I hate the fact that every Metro game I join now has the entire team using usas12 with frag. It’s ridiculous. The splash or area damage also seemed to high, getting blow away from a mid range glancing blow is epic weak.

definitely like the sounds of the patch, i play on 360 so USAS+frag= frustration :) but as far as shotguns go i find that i personally like the 870 the best, especially with slugs, its so fun to see a sniper and pop his head with a slug and then get a message saying how much of a noob i am for doing it. Just makes my day :)

some do, like me. the 870 is the only shotgun i like…..but as u said alot of people dont use it, all ive seen use the pump was me and one other guy i seem to keep running into every other day. but for the most part everyone uses that USAS frag. cant stand that shit

yeah youll change your mind when cqb hits.
i realise the usas was not balanced properly, but in comparison to the mk31 the usas still beat it out, thats telling you something was wrong with it. With the 870 its a great shotgun, it just has its place in the game, such as on tdm canals or metro, my only problem with shotguns in general (besides frag rounds >:i ) is that the slugs are under poweres, they should at any time be considered a sniper round up to 30m, save maybe for the shorter barrel shotguns. also whats the deal with a O roticle it should be a + with slugs, as it is one round and not 12 metal marbles.