and even as I have just posted this, I will immediately get a post following it, simply with the words lockout and CBA

But let me ask this, I realize that something is a muck with the NFL and Players union and it's looking extremely rocky at this point, and we could be missing up to 7 games according to some sources

Is it going to happen at all? Because for a team like the Browns with so many holes one of the few areas they have a shot at getting better at is in FA. How will the league

And, If it does happen in any sort of form, what do you think the Browns do? We all know that Mike Holmgren has not been a stranger to go after some of the more elite talent in the game (see Reggie White in the early 90's), but the past two years the Browns have not sought after anyone all that major, mainly guys that are CFL-Caliber.

I saw the list and someone like Vincent Jackson and Santonio Holmes actually look really tempting, and would at least allow the Browns to go D-Line in the first, but do they have a chance at those guys?

Swerb wrote:Go start a blog if you want to tell the world your incomprehendible ramblings.

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I have a big arm and can throw the ball pretty damn far...... maybe even over those moutains. The Browns should sign me, i'll let you all in locker room to drink beer. Then we can all go out the parking lot to watch me do motorcycle stunts.

Due to the lack of a CBA and the impending Lockout, it's just so hard to say who might be available because we don't yet know what the Franchise/Transition tags will look like, who will be Restricted or Unrestricted Free Agents, and who might get re-signed by their teams during the inevitable grace period between the end of the Lockout and the start of Free Agency.

Imagine if that doesn't come until September. Free Agents will be signing and showing up for Training Camp the next day with the first Regular Season game a week later.

If that happens, the Browns will be doomed from the start and might as well tank the season in an effort to get Football LeBron - aka Andrew Luck.

I understand that you're going through football withdrawal symptoms (I just got over the night sweats myself), but it's just so hard to speculate on who they should get when there are so many CBA-related unknowns at this point.

hiko wrote:Due to the lack of a CBA and the impending Lockout, it's just so hard to say who might be available because we don't yet know what the Franchise/Transition tags will look like, who will be Restricted or Unrestricted Free Agents, and who might get re-signed by their teams during the inevitable grace period between the end of the Lockout and the start of Free Agency.

Imagine if that doesn't come until September. Free Agents will be signing and showing up for Training Camp the next day with the first Regular Season game a week later.

If that happens, the Browns will be doomed from the start and might as well tank the season in an effort to get Football LeBron - aka Andrew Luck.

I understand that you're going through football withdrawal symptoms (I just got over the night sweats myself), but it's just so hard to speculate on who they should get when there are so many CBA-related unknowns at this point.

Nice

But yeah, it's looking unfortunately that tanking for Luck is possibly the best solution at this point. I mean, in the apocalyptic version of this, you'll barely have any time to put the new system in place, so you're pretty much screwed there as well. Does any other team in the division have to have those concerns?

I guess just draft well, and pray that you'll be worse off than the Redskins, or whomever will be in the derby as well.

Swerb wrote:Go start a blog if you want to tell the world your incomprehendible ramblings.

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I have a big arm and can throw the ball pretty damn far...... maybe even over those moutains. The Browns should sign me, i'll let you all in locker room to drink beer. Then we can all go out the parking lot to watch me do motorcycle stunts.

Triple-S wrote:But yeah, it's looking unfortunately that tanking for Luck is possibly the best solution at this point. I mean, in the apocalyptic version of this, you'll barely have any time to put the new system in place, so you're pretty much screwed there as well. Does any other team in the division have to have those concerns?

I guess just draft well, and pray that you'll be worse off than the Redskins, or whomever will be in the derby as well.

Any team with a new coaching staff will be in that boat. So, the Panthers, 49'ers, and Broncos will be floating with us (I don't include the Vikings, Raiders, Cowboys, or Titans since their coaches all came from their current system and there will be much less overhaul/change).

And don't think for a moment that Harbaugh wouldn't be eyeballing a Luck-based tank job if it became apparent that his team can't be good b/c of the work stoppage. I see them (SF) and the Panthers as our primary competition right now.

EDIT: To move Oakland into the "coaches from the current system" category.

hiko wrote:Any team with a new coaching staff will be in that boat. So, the Panthers, 49'ers, Raiders, and Broncos will be floating with us (I don't include the Vikings, Cowboys, or Titans since their coaches all came from their current system and there will be much less overhaul/change).

And don't think for a moment that Harbaugh wouldn't be eyeballing a Luck-based tank job if it became apparent that his team can't be good b/c of the work stoppage. I see them (SF) and the Panthers as our primary competition right now.

To go possibly conspiracy theory here.

Could Shurmer simply be a sacrificial lamb to make it through this next season (Terribly I may add), get the WCO in place and then for either Holmgren or a certain ESPN analyst who's sticking around in the booth this year to make the return to the sidelines?

Swerb wrote:Go start a blog if you want to tell the world your incomprehendible ramblings.

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I have a big arm and can throw the ball pretty damn far...... maybe even over those moutains. The Browns should sign me, i'll let you all in locker room to drink beer. Then we can all go out the parking lot to watch me do motorcycle stunts.

hiko wrote:Any team with a new coaching staff will be in that boat. So, the Panthers, 49'ers, Raiders, and Broncos will be floating with us (I don't include the Vikings, Cowboys, or Titans since their coaches all came from their current system and there will be much less overhaul/change).

And don't think for a moment that Harbaugh wouldn't be eyeballing a Luck-based tank job if it became apparent that his team can't be good b/c of the work stoppage. I see them (SF) and the Panthers as our primary competition right now.

To go possibly conspiracy theory here.

Could Shurmer simply be a sacrificial lamb to make it through this next season (Terribly I may add), get the WCO in place and then for either Holmgren or a certain ESPN analyst who's sticking around in the booth this year to make the return to the sidelines?

I think Holmgren will stick with Shurmur b/c Shurmur's "his" guy and he can control Shurmur. The switch to the WCO Offense (and on a lesser level the 4-3) is what will doom this team if there are no minicamps or OTA's or Training Camp. The Browns will look like crap, but that won't be the fault of the coaching staff, necessarily. - hard to implement a new system in a week.

So, yeah, the CBA situation may relegate 2011 to being even more of a total waste than normal in Cleveland.

This is the most ridiculous thread I've ever read on TCF. There's some way over-thinking going on here. Is it too much to ask to actually believe Holmgren and Shurmur, considering the fact that we've not caught either of them lying yet? Shurmur has a four-year contract, and Holmgren will keep him around as long as possible. Both Holmgren and Shurmur have given Colt McCoy their tacit seal approval as starting QB, so why would they even think about trying to go 0-16 and draft Andrew Luck?

I hate the concept of tanking an NFL season, but if there has EVER been a situation where an organization could secretly make an effort to do so, this is it. New coach with full support of the GM, low expectations, new defensive system, roster purge of vets that don't fit the new system. We will probably start 4-5 players from this year's draft to go with the 5 guys that will play from last year's draft. (McCoy, Haden, Hardesty, Ward and Lauvuo) Maybe 6 if they give Mitchell a legit shot.

HALF of our starters in 2011 might be from the 2010 and 2011 drafts. Think about that for a second. That's insane. No pressure to win, work hard get better, prepare for the future. The whole 2011 season will be a big pre-season for 2012 and beyond.

Imagine if it is a 7 week lockout and there are only 9 games to play. Considering that at least two if not more of those games will be against the Ravens and Steelers, it wouldn't be too tough to go "0-fer" or win one game, especially with 10-11 starters with 16 games or less of experience playing in the NFL.

This is the most ridiculous thread I've ever read on TCF. There's some way over-thinking going on here. Is it too much to ask to actually believe Holmgren and Shurmur, considering the fact that we've not caught either of them lying yet? Shurmur has a four-year contract, and Holmgren will keep him around as long as possible. Both Holmgren and Shurmur have given Colt McCoy their tacit seal approval as starting QB, so why would they even think about trying to go 0-16 and draft Andrew Luck?

Dumb, dumb, dumb, dum-dums.

1. I'm joking about the "race for worst" and do not endorse tanking at all.

2. If there is a long lockout, the Browns will be at severe disadvantage, and it is highly likely they'll be vying for Andrew Luck whether they tank or not.

3. I don't buy conspiracy theories either.

4. I don't take everything they say at face value, but nor do I care if they lie or not, since they have to lie sometimes.

5. Of course they give Colt McCoy their tacit approval. What the fuck else are they gonna say?

6. If their Colt McCoy-led team does indeed finish badly enough to get the #1 overall pick, only a massive fool would pass up Andrew Luck.

jb wrote:You don't need a conspiracy theory. pathches in no way, shape or form fits the characterization of a scapegoat sacrificial lamb.

You don't need to TRY to tank any more than TMLP tried to tank the Cavs' season. It may just happen.

All you have to do is open your eyes to how the dots are lining up to be connected.

It may or may not be that bad in the end. But the perfct storm might well be brewing:

- new roster- first time HC - lot's of kids playing meaningful minutes- new scheme installation thwarted by the cancellation of OTA's and possibly TC- truncated / cancelled UFA season

I tried to lay out the exact same thing in December, and I got whacked with the CJ of Despair label and miscast as a nabboring nabbob of negativity or some shit. Which was, is and shall be bullshit.

Makes me want to go all SD now, but I won't. Excpet to quote the great philosophr, Tony Montana and quip, "well lookatchu now, Frank". ;-)

"OR"

SD:

A small miracle happens , despite losing our bid to get Newton we start the season with Colt McCoy who gives way to Jarrett Brown a more athletic talent with a real arm and the Browns go on a run as improbable as when the Kurt Warner led Rams went from worst to first and win it all .

hiko wrote:2. If there is a long lockout, the Browns will be at severe disadvantage

I don't see this at all.

The best thing for us in 2010 & beyond would be for FA to get cancelled.

Take a brief look at our defensive depth chart right now with and then without Roth, Mitchell, Shaefering, DQ, Wright, and Elam. If we get to keep those guys around as roster filler for one more cheap year while we transition to the 4-3, that'd be huge. We'd actually get to field an 11-man defense in 2010 without having to go crazy investing in FAs (that we'd be stuck with for several years instead of just one), and as long as we're smart and commit the bulk of our draft resources this year to defense, then with another defense-heavy draft in 2012, we could have a good young defense that was built the right way instead of haphazardly patched together with FAs.

And as for the offense, I'm somewhat encouraged by the reports of Colt planning to lead workouts himself after getting his crash course in the WCO. If nothing else, we have a QB who isn't going to be outworked this offseason.