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Hmmm, you know what? I'll give Panda a shot. Unity's definitely unwieldy for any game that doesn't need a level editor, and a game where the world is generated on the fly certain fits that category. In fact, I've kind of been hacking Unity to get everything to work. I really hate to learn yet another game engine though. I don't think I've ever built two games with the same engine and I was hoping to sort of land on Unity... Ah well, why not? I've been wanting to give Python a shot anyways.

I don't see a point and comparing engines. Unity was made for one set of objectives, UnrealDK for another, and Panda3D for yet another. Which engine you should use really only depends on what you want to accomplish (2D game, 3D game, casual vs. "hardcore", mobile vs. desktop) and how you want to accomplish it (e.g. visual design vs. code). Only individual research will help with that.

As for a different idea, I would like a platforming game with some variety. For instance, multiple characters would be nice, or things such as different mask powers. One thing though is some unique elements, such as rahkshi of elasticity having stretchy limbs like Ristar from his game, or the Werehog from Sonic Unleashed. I'm mainly looking for a platforming game with a good deal of variety, while still being a platforming game at it's core, as opposed to being a genre-roulette like Sonic Adventure 1 or 2. Bionicle Fighter: Broken Virtues is doing this quite nicely, however, it is first and foremost a fighting game. If it could be expanded to have a single player/co-op mode that plays like a platformer, that would be perfect. So yeah, something like that, preferably 2D since 3D games are harder to program and take a lot longer to make.

You basically just described Toa's Quest 3. However, it's the only one of its kind. Another platform game that builds upon the variety that TQ3 establish would make a great addition though.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I'm looking for, particularly with a hero story and a villain story (for toa and rahkshi.) That, and I had glitches in TQ3 that prevent me from finishing it, which is one of the reasons I don't play it that often (unless there's a glitch-free version somewhere.)

The main problem I have with UnityScript is that it's yet another language I have to learn, which I'd prefer not to do. One language may not sound like much, but I've had this happen to me before 14 times...

If you already know ECMAScript/JavaScript it will be easy to learn.And hey, learning languages is fun (IMO). I'm currently learning Common Lisp, Io, and Erlang (all of which are excellent languages).

No offense, but exactly how much programming have you done? That "Hello World" Panda3D example is a piece of cake - trivial even - to 100% of programming done in the real world. If you want to make a top-notch game, be prepared to do quite a bit of complex programming.

Quite a bit. I haven't even looked at the "Hello World" example; I'll go do that. I was basing my claim on my (fairly minimal) experience with Unity.Also, I'm not a game programmer (despite the fact that I'm making a game). I'm a web developer who also writes compilers. EDIT: Okay, I read the "Hello World" tutorial and agree that it's downright easy. I absolutely suck at 3D modeling, but it's nice to have an alternative to Unity that runs on Linux.

Edited by alpha123, Oct 26 2011 - 01:51 PM.

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If the Kanohi masks are a type of technology and most of the MU citizens are Biomechanical beings then how would a Kanohi mask recognize the difference between a Matoran and a Toa?

The main problem I have with UnityScript is that it's yet another language I have to learn, which I'd prefer not to do. One language may not sound like much, but I've had this happen to me before 14 times...

If you already know ECMAScript/JavaScript it will be easy to learn.And hey, learning languages is fun (IMO). I'm currently learning Common Lisp, Io, and Erlang (all of which are excellent languages).

If you try to learn 15 different languages, you're never going to really master any of them. I concentrate on Python and C++, and thus become far better than I ever would if I learned a bunch of languages at a time.

No offense, but exactly how much programming have you done? That "Hello World" Panda3D example is a piece of cake - trivial even - to 100% of programming done in the real world. If you want to make a top-notch game, be prepared to do quite a bit of complex programming.

Quite a bit. I haven't even looked at the "Hello World" example; I'll go do that. I was basing my claim on my (fairly minimal) experience with Unity.Also, I'm not a game programmer (despite the fact that I'm making a game). I'm a web developer who also writes compilers. EDIT: Okay, I read the "Hello World" tutorial and agree that it's downright easy. I absolutely suck at 3D modeling, but it's nice to have an alternative to Unity that runs on Linux.

At the moment, I only learn languages that have real-world value (i.e, I can get a job with in the near-future) - lets me concentrate on a few languages, and learn them really well, like Python. Anyway, back on topic. If anyone wants to work on a Bionicle fangame with me, send me a PM - maybe we can get most of the community working on a single, high-quality fangame.

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Every moment gives us a chance to become more than what we are.-Ryu, Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike: Fight for the FutureNot luck. It's what you do that makes you a hero.-Kopaka Nuva, MoLI have but one destiny.-Takanuva, MoL

Simple, but I want a high-quality (AA, at the very least) Bionicle fangame, mostly because I haven't witnessed such a game on FCG yet (no offense), and I don't think a Brick Breaker clone could deliver such quality.

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Every moment gives us a chance to become more than what we are.-Ryu, Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike: Fight for the FutureNot luck. It's what you do that makes you a hero.-Kopaka Nuva, MoLI have but one destiny.-Takanuva, MoL

We should definitely get together and all work on a game. AS to what type, I'm not sure, I say we go with either 3D platformer or FPS since those seem to be the most popular, and have similar elements (such as many platformers which have guns, and most FPSes have some platforming elements.) Plus, I'd love to have Bohrok to play as so I can roll around like in Sonic games. The ability to play as multiple species with different abilities and traits would be nice (like in Sonic Adventure with the different characters and stories, or like in Brink with the different body types and classes.)

If you try to learn 15 different languages, you're never going to really master any of them. I concentrate on Python and C++, and thus become far better than I ever would if I learned a bunch of languages at a time.

I disagree; once you know two languages (preferably one compiled and one scripting language) you can pick up on any language fairly easily.APIs and engines, on the other hand, are a different story. As for the collaborative game.. *nudges attention back to my own project* once the foundation for a procedural adventure game is laid down, it's a great platform for collaboration. Has anybody here seen how many awesome modds are available for Minecraft?

If you try to learn 15 different languages, you're never going to really master any of them. I concentrate on Python and C++, and thus become far better than I ever would if I learned a bunch of languages at a time.

I disagree; once you know two languages (preferably one compiled and one scripting language) you can pick up on any language fairly easily.APIs and engines, on the other hand, are a different story.

Pick up, maybe; master, no. I define "learn" as having written a relatively small (~3,000 lines of code) in whatever language you're trying to learn, maintain/update it for a year, and allow other people to download the program (and preferably the source code, as well), and then offer them support. That shows you have experience writing non-trivial programs in your language of choice, that you know how to design your program well, and that you know how to support your program. On the other hand, I define "master" as having 10,000 hours (or 10 years, whichever comes first) of real-world programming experience with either an actual programming job at some physical location, or with one or more open-source projects. While mastery of programming itself, in terms of algorithms and the like, is language-agnostic, mastery of an individual language is not - for example, metaprogramming in Python is very different in both idea and implementation from metaprogramming in Java (or C++ with the Boost framework). It may also seem like I'm trying to tilt the tables to those that have real-world experience programming, as well. But that's the only experience that actually counts; once your programs have to run on a computer that you don't own and probably don't have physical access to, and/or once you don't have complete control over how the code is evolved (because there are other developers besides you working on the same project), your whole perspective changes: You no longer can make assumptions about the computer on which your program will run; other developers will have different opinions on how to implement some idea or feature, and you'll have to explain to them why yours is better (at least in your humble opinion).

As for the collaborative game.. *nudges attention back to my own project* once the foundation for a procedural adventure game is laid down, it's a great platform for collaboration. Has anybody here seen how many awesome modds are available for Minecraft?

A few minor problems with that:

[*](Minecraft-specific) I'd prefer to not have to spend $20 just to play a Bionicle fangame[*](Unity-specific) I really don't want to reboot my computer to Windows to play a Bionicle fangame, either[*]Mods in general require the user to have the game the moderator is based of off installed before the moderator can be played[/list]I personally would probably not develop a procedural adventure game, mostly because a FPS or fighting game (one of which hasn't been done at all in FCG, the other, not well enough yet IMHO - no offense) hasn't really been done before in the world of Bionicle fangames, and both of those genres are a lot more interesting to me. Still, if you develop a procedural adventure game, I'll be happy to try it - as long as it works on Linux, of course

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Every moment gives us a chance to become more than what we are.-Ryu, Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike: Fight for the FutureNot luck. It's what you do that makes you a hero.-Kopaka Nuva, MoLI have but one destiny.-Takanuva, MoL

that game is soo annoying. my five year old brother (who loves sonic)mbegs me to help him on the hard levels. the olt gameplay i like was the robot's gun xD

Well that's just you. Also, I basically meant a platforming game, where you have characters with different traits and abilities, but aside from those and different level paths (or different levels entirely,) it's still a platforming game. For instance (another sonic example,) Sonic is super fast, has spindash, and homing attack (maybe bounce jump,) Tails is somewhat slower, but has flying, and a longer homing attack range, and knuckles is slightly slower than tails, but has gliding, wall climbing, digging, and possibly the ability to smash some barriers. This could work with Bionicle, if you have three different species. A toa (possibly with a kakama,) to be the speed character, and have elemental powers, a rahkshi would would be slower, but have flight and a rahkshi power, then finally a skakdi, which would be stronger, as well as having a limited elemental power (or maybe something for a co-op mode,) as well as a vision power, being the power-type character. You could even do something like Bionicle Heroes, with different speed, strength and power characters, each being a different species, and instead of a "team blast" you could have them form a kaita. (and you could have teams of Toa, rahkshi, and bohrok for instance,) and having one of each species being a different type (for instance, a toa of wind with a kakama for speed, a toa of stone with a pakari for power, and a toa of lightning with a kadin for flight.) It's probably just me and my obsession with Sonic/platformers, but I think this could work out really well (I mainly just want a platforming game with a variety of masks, powers, species, etc.)

If you try to learn 15 different languages, you're never going to really master any of them. I concentrate on Python and C++, and thus become far better than I ever would if I learned a bunch of languages at a time.

Learning some languages make you better at programming. Learning Io made me a lot better at JavaScript (which is what I primarily concentrate on). Learning Common Lisp made me a better programmer in general.

I disagree; once you know two languages (preferably one compiled and one scripting language) you can pick up on any language fairly easily.

Not entirely true. Go learn Haskell and get your brain torn apart. And yes, Haskell is used for real-world projects.Although once you know one imperative language, other imperative languages are easy, once you know one functional language, other functional languages are easy, once you know one stack language, other stack languages are easy, etc. However, if you only know imperative languages, function languages aren't easy to learn (but it's worth it). Anyway, I would probably work on a community game. As I've mentioned, I can't do any modeling, but I can write code. I think we should write a replacement for The Legend of Mata Nui -- that game looked like a lot of fun, and since LEGO won't let Deep Brick release it, it would be nice to make it ourselves.

Edited by alpha123, Oct 27 2011 - 04:09 PM.

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If the Kanohi masks are a type of technology and most of the MU citizens are Biomechanical beings then how would a Kanohi mask recognize the difference between a Matoran and a Toa?

i agree. alot of people attempt to make games, but it takes a while and they usually never finish. but a collaborative 3d FPS or 3ps based on the 01 story would be amazig. and when we make more progress than lego did on LOMN, we can rub it in their faces >:D I'm getting hyped.

i agree. alot of people attempt to make games, but it takes a while and they usually never finish. but a collaborative 3d FPS or 3ps based on the 01 story would be amazig. and when we make more progress than lego did on LOMN, we can rub it in their faces > I'm getting hyped.

That last part would be fun, and it would be a great was to be passive-aggressive towards Lego's decision to not let us release it. Plus, it seems to be a good platformer with some FPS elements thrown in (though obviously in 3rd-person,) and the ability to play as different characters with different mask powers is enough variety for me. If we're all in agreement, we should get started. We'll need a programming language that works well for the game, but isn't too complicated so we have enough people working on it. So, I'm guessing either Panda or Unity, but I can't program, so I'm not sure. Once we decide I'll try to learn it so I can help out, though I could probably work on story or modeling. Another thing, what modeling program are we planning on using? I have some experience with Techne, but I can learn something else if needed.

That last part would be fun, and it would be a great was to be passive-aggressive towards Lego's decision to not let us release it. Plus, it seems to be a good platformer with some FPS elements thrown in (though obviously in 3rd-person,) and the ability to play as different characters with different mask powers is enough variety for me. If we're all in agreement, we should get started.

Agreed with all that.

We'll need a programming language that works well for the game, but isn't too complicated so we have enough people working on it. So, I'm guessing either Panda or Unity, but I can't program, so I'm not sure. Once we decide I'll try to learn it so I can help out, though I could probably work on story or modeling. Another thing, what modeling program are we planning on using? I have some experience with Techne, but I can learn something else if needed.

I vote Panda for the game engine and Blender for the modeling program. Both of them run on every major operating system and are open source and free to use.

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If the Kanohi masks are a type of technology and most of the MU citizens are Biomechanical beings then how would a Kanohi mask recognize the difference between a Matoran and a Toa?

Nice to see so many people enthusiastic about making a community fangame

i agree. alot of people attempt to make games, but it takes a while and they usually never finish. but a collaborative 3d FPS or 3ps based on the 01 story would be amazig. and when we make more progress than lego did on LOMN, we can rub it in their faces > I'm getting hyped.

That last part would be fun, and it would be a great was to be passive-aggressive towards Lego's decision to not let us release it. Plus, it seems to be a good platformer with some FPS elements thrown in (though obviously in 3rd-person,) and the ability to play as different characters with different mask powers is enough variety for me. If we're all in agreement, we should get started. We'll need a programming language that works well for the game, but isn't too complicated so we have enough people working on it. So, I'm guessing either Panda or Unity, but I can't program, so I'm not sure. Once we decide I'll try to learn it so I can help out, though I could probably work on story or modeling. Another thing, what modeling program are we planning on using? I have some experience with Techne, but I can learn something else if needed.

We haven't agreed on what the game will be about, which is something that needs to be done once there's a formal team. Here's my refined suggestion, though: A cross between Bionicle Heroes, Team Fortress 2, and possibly LoMN - in other words, LoMN's story with Bionicle Heroes' camera + movement style and Team Fortress 2's networked deathmatch fun. I also wouldn't want the game to follow canon too much, since that limits the game a bit. There aren't any true Bionicle FPS games yet (BH had auto-aiming, too easy IMHO), so that's big points for originality. I wouldn't want the fangame to be a platformer, since there are already quite a few good Bionicle ones (Toa's Quest 3 comes to mind). As for engines: Being a Panda fan (and Linux user), I'm going to suggest Panda As for which 3D modeling program, I recommend Blender, but anything that exports to .x, .obj, or VRML97 should be fine.

If you try to learn 15 different languages, you're never going to really master any of them. I concentrate on Python and C++, and thus become far better than I ever would if I learned a bunch of languages at a time.

Learning some languages make you better at programming. Learning Io made me a lot better at JavaScript (which is what I primarily concentrate on). Learning Common Lisp made me a better programmer in general.

Sorry, I was a tad unclear. I agree, learning different languages opens your mind, and makes you better at programming in general, but if you actually attempt to learn 15 different languages, you're never going to master any of them in particular.

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Every moment gives us a chance to become more than what we are.-Ryu, Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike: Fight for the FutureNot luck. It's what you do that makes you a hero.-Kopaka Nuva, MoLI have but one destiny.-Takanuva, MoL

@Hyper Rarity: You should probably change "Coding Programs" to "Game Engines". A "coding program" would be what you write code in (like Emacs or UltraEdit). A game engine is like Unity and Panda: something that renders 3D models (created with a program like Blender) and allows code to control them. @bulik: If you can't code or 3D model, I'd prefer you don't skew the vote count.

Edited by alpha123, Oct 27 2011 - 09:55 PM.

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If the Kanohi masks are a type of technology and most of the MU citizens are Biomechanical beings then how would a Kanohi mask recognize the difference between a Matoran and a Toa?

@Hyper Rarity: You should probably change "Coding Programs" to "Game Engines". A "coding program" would be what you write code in (like Emacs or UltraEdit). A game engine is like Unity and Panda: something that renders 3D models (created with a program like Blender) and allows code to control them.

+1 to that - "Game Engines" is way more appropriate.

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Every moment gives us a chance to become more than what we are.-Ryu, Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike: Fight for the FutureNot luck. It's what you do that makes you a hero.-Kopaka Nuva, MoLI have but one destiny.-Takanuva, MoL

So this kinda feels like I'm just walking in on this conversation, but...whatever, that's what forums are, basically. Go away, guilty/dumb feeling. Anyways, I've always had this idea for a Bionicle game. I'd like to see a platformer. Not just a mediocre platformer, though - the main basis for my idea lies in four already existing games: Super Castlevania IV, Castlevania II: Simon's Quest, Ninja Gaiden, and Batman (on the NES; not sure of the full name). Fast-paced, jumping around everywhere, that wall-clinging technique in both NG and Batman... Oh, and the graphics/music. They have to be pure, legit 8-bit. I want to see some 8-bit Bionicle games, if that's possible. It'd be cool to see Bionicle worked in with the whole retro-aspect of gaming.

So this kinda feels like I'm just walking in on this conversation, but...whatever, that's what forums are, basically. Go away, guilty/dumb feeling. Anyways, I've always had this idea for a Bionicle game. I'd like to see a platformer. Not just a mediocre platformer, though - the main basis for my idea lies in four already existing games: Super Castlevania IV, Castlevania II: Simon's Quest, Ninja Gaiden, and Batman (on the NES; not sure of the full name). Fast-paced, jumping around everywhere, that wall-clinging technique in both NG and Batman... Oh, and the graphics/music. They have to be pure, legit 8-bit. I want to see some 8-bit Bionicle games, if that's possible. It'd be cool to see Bionicle worked in with the whole retro-aspect of gaming.

Have you seen Bionicle Colgate? Nice official 8-bit Bionicle platformer. As for your idea, it sounds pretty nice - I myself like 16-bit gaming (not so sure about 8-bit) - but I'd prefer a game that you can take to even non-Bionicle fans and have them want to play. Considering how popular hi-res 2D graphics and >500,000-vertex 3D models are nowadays, I'm not sure a retro game would cut it.

So, am I getting this right? Ya'll want to make a BIONICLE FPS in Panda and Blender?Count me in (I'm still going to make the procedural adventure though. Haters gonna hate)

I guess that's what we'll be making I also eagerly await your adventure game, BTW

Haters gonna hate

that's my motto so, if you are going to make a fps, you should make an official developer's list , etc.or aleast agree on what the game would be like

OK, here we go (this stuff will be moved to a thread in FCG once we're able to make one): The team:

[*]Me - UltraHau [*]Jedi Knight Krazy[*]alpha123[/list]Whether more team members will be accepted is something the above members will have to work out. By the way, I just made that list by going through this thread and seeing who with programming or art skills wanted to work on this project, so if I missed you, feel free to tell me The game: A (probably non-canonical) Bionicle FPS with multiplayer functionality, similar to Team Fortress 2. (open to discussion among the team, of course) We can flesh out the game's design once we decide on a way to communicate. Tools used:

[*]Panda3D for the game engine[*]Blender for the 3D modeler (though other 3D modeling programs are fine)[/list](note: A 2D image editing program is also needed, but the image editing program doesn't really matter, since 2D image formats are very standardized)Other stuff:

[*]Website - TBD[*]FCG thread - TBD[/list]We cannot make a FCG thread yet, because we have nothing to show, correct? Other than BZP's PM system, anyone have any ideas on how to coordinate development?

Edited by UltraHau, Oct 31 2011 - 02:18 PM.

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Every moment gives us a chance to become more than what we are.-Ryu, Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike: Fight for the FutureNot luck. It's what you do that makes you a hero.-Kopaka Nuva, MoLI have but one destiny.-Takanuva, MoL

We cannot make a FCG thread yet, because we have nothing to show, correct?

Correct. Although I guess if this gets some kind of "Official FCG Community Game" status, we could make a topic for discussion.

Other than BZP's PM system, anyone have any ideas on how to coordinate development?

GitHub.

Ooh, GitHub As long as it's OK to link to GitHub from BZP, I'm fine with this. EDIT: I forgot SourceForge - we might want to use that instead of GitHub. SourceForge has better web hosting functionality, IMHO.

Edited by UltraHau, Oct 31 2011 - 03:22 PM.

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Every moment gives us a chance to become more than what we are.-Ryu, Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike: Fight for the FutureNot luck. It's what you do that makes you a hero.-Kopaka Nuva, MoLI have but one destiny.-Takanuva, MoL

] yeah, becasue MZ made one (this topic) i feel like it would be OK (IMO) to make a topic for devoloper discussionalthough, i think the new pm system allows pming to more than one member, calling it conversations

] yeah, becasue MZ made one (this topic) i feel like it would be OK (IMO) to make a topic for devoloper discussionalthough, i think the new pm system allows pming to more than one member, calling it conversations

I'm not so sure if we could make a topic about a fangame that doesn't even exist yet, without the explicit permission from one of the FCG moderators or Black Six. PMs are good, but I'd prefer if people outside the team could see what the team is discussing, which PMs make difficult.

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Every moment gives us a chance to become more than what we are.-Ryu, Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike: Fight for the FutureNot luck. It's what you do that makes you a hero.-Kopaka Nuva, MoLI have but one destiny.-Takanuva, MoL

hmmm good point. but i'd be fine with it being a "secret" for now, because anyway, tehre are lots of otehr exciting things on the new forums and i'm sure we can wait a week to a month until you have progress

I'd prefer to stick with BZP for communication. Not only will that prevent us from bumping up against the forum rules, but it'll keep the topic active and visible to BZPower. Maybe we can use a Google Docs spreadsheet to keep track of feature requests and bugs? So, I think the next step is to make a few decisions:

[*]In general, at what point in BIONICLE history does this take place? I'd say our choices would be Core War, Pre-Cataclysm (i.e. 2004-2005), Post-Cataclysm (i.e. 2001-2003, 2006-2008), and Post-Journey's-End.[*]Who are our playable characters? Matoran? Toa? Will we have different classes for different factions (i.e. Rahkshi, Bohrok)? If we do that, can it just be a graphic swap? Balancing two factions would be a nightmare, I think.[*]What are the maps?[/list]

I'd prefer to stick with BZP for communication. Not only will that prevent us from bumping up against the forum rules, but it'll keep the topic active and visible to BZPower. Maybe we can use a Google Docs spreadsheet to keep track of feature requests and bugs? So, I think the next step is to make a few decisions:

[*]In general, at what point in BIONICLE history does this take place? I'd say our choices would be Core War, Pre-Cataclysm (i.e. 2004-2005), Post-Cataclysm (i.e. 2001-2003, 2006-2008), and Post-Journey's-End.[*]Who are our playable characters? Matoran? Toa? Will we have different classes for different factions (i.e. Rahkshi, Bohrok)? If we do that, can it just be a graphic swap? Balancing two factions would be a nightmare, I think.[*]What are the maps?[/list]

Well, the main problem I have right now with using BZP to communicate is that we can't make a new topic in FCG (we don't have anything to show yet), so we'd have to use PMs. While they're not inherently bad, if BZP goes down again, the team might disband (like with Airoski). I also think a formal issue/feature tracker is better for tracking features than a spreadsheet - more easily updated/managed, and it's easier for non-team members to submit features. As for those decisions you listed:

[*]I think it personally can include technology/characters from many points in Bionicle's history - the whole game being non-canonical makes powers and other stuff easier.[*]I'd go for mostly Toa, but Matoran + Dark Hunters + <insert miscellaneous Bionicle species here> are good too. As for different factions/classes: I think they can be ignored for the time being - you're right, they are hard to balance.[*]What are the maps? If I interpret this question correctly, I think making the maps be arbitrary, non-canonical locations (like in Bionicle Heroes) is good.[/list]

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Every moment gives us a chance to become more than what we are.-Ryu, Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike: Fight for the FutureNot luck. It's what you do that makes you a hero.-Kopaka Nuva, MoLI have but one destiny.-Takanuva, MoL

I'd prefer to stick with BZP for communication. Not only will that prevent us from bumping up against the forum rules, but it'll keep the topic active and visible to BZPower. Maybe we can use a Google Docs spreadsheet to keep track of feature requests and bugs? So, I think the next step is to make a few decisions:

[*]In general, at what point in BIONICLE history does this take place? I'd say our choices would be Core War, Pre-Cataclysm (i.e. 2004-2005), Post-Cataclysm (i.e. 2001-2003, 2006-2008), and Post-Journey's-End.[*]Who are our playable characters? Matoran? Toa? Will we have different classes for different factions (i.e. Rahkshi, Bohrok)? If we do that, can it just be a graphic swap? Balancing two factions would be a nightmare, I think.[*]What are the maps?[/list]

he brings up some good points. what i would like would be:

[*]fps and/or 3ps[*]taking place during matoran civil war[*]multiple classes, such as infantry, sniper, anti-tank, engineer (can repair other units or vehicles), and extremely mobile unit ( maybe with levitation disk jetpack,unlockable after a certain amount of points per round), a special unit, and a "hero" (matoran featured in bionicle story, such as jaller or takua)[*]multiple vehicles, such as :souped-up experimental vahki transports, small airships, ussal crab with turret-mounted carts, etc.[*]command posts, and medical and ammunition huts[*]a story mode for when you get frustrated with me owneding you online:D[*]hmmm.... basicly SW battlefront 2, but with less vehicles and it is more fair than having all these extremely powerful toa.[*]multiple factions[/list]

Well, the main problem I have right now with using BZP to communicate is that we can't make a new topic in FCG (we don't have anything to show yet), so we'd have to use PMs. While they're not inherently bad, if BZP goes down again, the team might disband (like with Airoski). I also think a formal issue/feature tracker is better for tracking features than a spreadsheet - more easily updated/managed, and it's easier for non-team members to submit features. As for those decisions you listed:

[*]I think it personally can include technology/characters from many points in Bionicle's history - the whole game being non-canonical makes powers and other stuff easier.[*]I'd go for mostly Toa, but Matoran + Dark Hunters + <insert miscellaneous Bionicle species here> are good too. As for different factions/classes: I think they can be ignored for the time being - you're right, they are hard to balance.[*]What are the maps? If I interpret this question correctly, I think making the maps be arbitrary, non-canonical locations (like in Bionicle Heroes) is good.[/list]

Well, we're communicating right now, aren't we? No need for PMs or even another topic. I agree that it would be best to find some sort of project management system outside BZP, but I'm not sure how we're going to do that with the strict no-linking-to-the-outside-world policy here. Maybe one of us can PM Black Six and ask for an exception? Era: picking a specific era will help us focus development, otherwise there's a LOT of potential ground to cover. My vote goes to 2001-2003, because it's the most nostalgic, for me at least. Of course, we can definitely include out-of-era elements (Kanoka launchers ftw) but I think we should focus on one era.Characters: If we have any beings of power (i.e. Toa, Dark Hunters) let's leave out Matoran. They're going to be hopelessly underpowered any way we look at it. Maybe we can include them as random NPCs that get in the way.Maps: Maybe a few maps that are recognizable as canon locations? @bulik:

[*]Have you played any shooters other than Battlefront? The influence is showing very strongly in your suggestions and we really want to avoid making a BIONICLE clone of any specific game. I, at least, want this to be BIONICLE in much more than graphics.[*]NOoooooooo no story mode please! That's a completely different beast than multiplayer! Maybe we'll let you play with bots. Actually, due to the small community, bots are almost necessary, even in multiplayer.[/list]

as i was saying:yes, we do need an era, and i think matoran civil war is best. and there were dark hunters and vortixx hired for the war, right?bah, not any online shooters other than battlefront, but probably the only ones i've played are battlefront and republic commando. battlefront is about gigantic battles with over 40 players, and republic commando is 4-16 people in a small map with multiple guns and ammo they can find around the map or salvage from dead enemies.which of those would fit your preference, 4-16 people in a small map with no classes, or 40 people including bots on a large map with different classes and vehicles?i dont want a carbon-copy, but im just saying those because i know how they work, and there are parts of each that i like, and there might be some different ones that you guys like, so i said the whole lot. but i really feel that matoran civil war is an era where there arent a bunch of toa running around shooting fireballs AND they would all be (mostly) matoran, so balancing the teams wouldnt be a problemEDIT:i forgot to say,

Maybe we'll let you play with bots</p>

i like ( and am used to )bots when they come at me in swarms of 5-10, because i presonally think its more fun that way.

The fact that they're mostly Matoran is exactly the reason why I don't think Matoran Civil War is a good idea. Think about it: we're putting the player in a universe full of elemental powers and massive beasts... and we force them to play as a midget with an oversized slingshot? I'm gonna go with the 4-16 option; remember that we've got a small community, so we'd rarely fill up the slots, and we're not experienced programmers, so 40 players might get laggy in a way you wouldn't see in a similar commercial game. Like I said, I really want to get the BIONICLE theme right in this game... here's the result of some brainstorming:

[*]Unity - This is the most important thing to get right, because it's the most common theme in official Bionicle story. Unfortunately, it might be a bit difficult because we're using Panda. (ha, pun) Unity works very simply in Bionicle: when you work together, you're more powerful. Even bad guys form teams! The only one who didn't was Makuta, and look what happened to him... headshot. This means we should look to games like Battlefield and Team Fortress for inspiration over games like Call of Duty where you're a one-man army. Even in Battlefront, you're essentially a one-man army because all the bots are dumb as rocks and you can easily dispatch dozens of them without any help from teammates. In fact, I think we should take it a step further and design the game in such as way that you simply can't do much good on your own. Remember, in combat, 2 > 1 + 1.[*]Duty - At no point in Bionicle did characters simply fight for the sake of fighting. (unless you count the Matoran Civil War, but that wound up badly for everyone involved) Therefore, I think our game should objective-based, probably most like Counter-Strike (although I haven't played that), although some Team Fortress 2 and Battlefield game modes would be good inspiration as well.[*]Destiny - Honestly, I have no clue how to handle this, but I think we have to since we're doing the other two. Destiny in Bionicle is kind of mysterious as it is, but it seems to essentially add a theme of purpose. RPGs are typically best at this because they're good at story. I'm not saying that we should make this game story-driven; that would be really bad, actually. (Thinking on the keyboard here - excuse the rambling) Maybe destiny is the combination of unity and duty: every team member has a specific role in the game, more like players on a sports team than a standard class system.[/list]

<p>hmmm.... that does make sense, BUT my comments on the subject:</p><p> </p><p>unity- sorta reminds me of republic commando story mode. you command you ai teammates into different positions, manning turrets, defusing bombs, etc. while you help them and they help you</p><p> </p><p>duty- what you said about</p><div>

<p>our game should objective-based</p><p>

</p><p>sorta doesnt make sense with what you said before about a story mode. story mode is all about objectives.</p><p>most objectives for a multiplayer map would be CTF or capturing command posts. not really &quot;new&quot; ideas, and i'm not saying i dont like odl stuff, or stuff that is like stuff in another game, but having ctf and command post capture isnt that interesting. if you add a story, then that would spice it up a bit. like a co-op mission for story mode, except you can play it form each &quot;side&quot; of the war, while other's online are playing as the enemy against you and your team</p></div>