Today we take a look at an unusual air rifle — the Modoc from Air Ordnance.

This is the first time I have written about an airgun from Air Ordnance in this blog, but it isn’t the first time I have tested one. Several years ago I tested the SMG 22 belt-fed carbine they produce and wrote it up in a feature article in Shotgun News. Indeed one of the main photos on my website, The Godfather of Airguns, shows me holding that gun. My buddy, Otho, was so impressed when he shot it that he considered buying one.

What is the Modoc?

The Modoc is a 9mm big bore single shot air rifle, built on what looks like a Remington rolling block action. It isn’t, of course, but the action is steel. It uses an air cartridge instead of a reservoir inside the gun. There are many things about this airgun that are different, and we will consider them today. The first is why Air Ordnance decided to market the Modoc as 9mm instead of .357 caliber, when every other big bore maker on the market has switched over.

Cock the hammer and roll back the breechblock, and the rolling block is ready to be loaded.

The difference between 9mm and .357 caliber

Nine millimeter is very close to .357 caliber in size. A 9mm pistol bullet is either 0.355 or 0.356-inches in diameter. People who are not shooters will look at that and say that’s close enough to .357 caliber (which uses a .357 or .358-inch bullet) that those bullets will work, as well. What is one-thousandth of an inch? This is where it’s good to have some experience with reloading, because one-thousandth of an inch can make a huge difference in accuracy.

I advise big bore makers that there are hundreds of different lead bullets available in .357 and .358 caliber, but only a very few lead bullets in .355 and .356 calibers. That’s because most modern 9mm pistols shoot jacketed bullets, while .38 Special and .357 Magnum revolvers can shoot either lead or jacketed bullets. Lead bullets are not even loaded into 9mm calibers by the major reloading houses. Finding a supply of 9mm lead bullets will therefore be something of a challenge. Most people who shoot big bore airguns do not cast their own bullets, so the fact that bullet molds exist isn’t really a solution.

However, sometimes a larger lead bullet works well and even better in a gun than a bore-sized bullet — especially when driven at the low velocities of airguns and black powder guns. That is the nature of lead bullets. Shooters who shoot muzzleloading firearms are well-acquainted with this fact. So all is not lost for the Modoc. I have to test it on the range to see what works and what doesn’t, and that will include testing the H&N Grizzly bullet and the JSB Exact .35 caliber pellet.

Aluminum barrel!

Perhaps the most shocking thing about the Modoc is its aluminum barrel. Yes, I said aluminum, as in no steel liner. The airgun community is buzzing with talk about this, but all the comments I have read are focused on the wrong thing. They are concerned with the burst strength of the aluminum, and that’s not the problem. Aluminum can be more than strong enough to contain airgun pressures. What they should focus on is the wear resistance of the metal. Even steel muzzleloading barrels will wear out when shooting patched lead balls.

Air Ordnance is aware of the concern over barrel wear. They say they have shot their gun thousands of times and noticed no wear in the barrel. There is no way I can test for that in this report, or even in the feature article I plan to run next year in Shotgun News, so for now we will just have to accept what they say. As long as you don’t shoot jacketed bullets in the gun I think you’ll get a lot of use from the barrel.

The other thing the aluminum barrel does is it makes the rifle very light for its size. What should weigh 9+ pounds weighs only 6.5 pounds, according to the Air Ordnance website. The rifle I am testing weighs 6.5 pounds on the nose! That doesn’t happen too often.

Long barrel

Whoever designed the Modoc understood precharged pneumatic airguns because the barrel is 31.125-inches long. The Air Ordnance website says it’s 34.5 inches, but it’s not that even on the outside. I loaded an air cartridge and measured the barrel from the point where the bullet sits. From there to the muzzle is 31.125-inches.

That still gives the air plenty of time to accelerate the bullet to speed. Air Ordnance told me at the 2015 SHOT Show that they were getting as much as 180 foot-pounds from the Modoc, which is a lot for such a small caliber. That would be a 123-grain 9mm lead bullet moving at about 812 f.p.s. Lighter bullets and pellets can be expected to go even faster. We shall see.

Air cartridges

The Modoc uses air cartridges. Three cartridges and a filling station come with the rifle. If you have an air compressor you can fill these 3 cartridges to 4,500 psi before leaving home, but when you fill in the field from a carbon fiber air tank the pressure in the tank is going to start dropping with the first fill. This is going to present a problem for me testing velocity. After the first 3 shots I will be filling the cartridges at the range from my tank and the pressure will star to drop. There is no way around this without obtaining additional cartridges.

The steel air cartridge is filled with air and a bullet, then loaded into the rifle.

I will describe the air cartridges in detail in the next report. I will also explain how they work in the rifle. I will also show the cartridge fill station that comes with the rifle and describe how it works. For today, though, I have said all I’m going to.

4500 psi

The fill pressure is a severe limitation for the Modoc because it puts a real strain on the shooter. Many shooters do not have 4500 psi tanks yet, and the number of those who have compressors that go that high is smaller. I understand why the gun uses this pressure. The barrel is so long and the cartridge volume is so small that they need all the air they can pack into the space.

Of course the cartridge will function fine when filled to a pressure lower than 4500 psi. What it does to the gun’s accuracy at 50 yards, though, will be something we will find out together.

The gun

The Modoc is a long rifle — Air Ordnance says it’s fully 54-inches from stem to stern, but my tape measure says it’s 51.125-inches. It dwarfs most modern rifles — airgun and firearm. To find a gun case remember you need to get one that’s at least 52-inches long. I stuffed the test rifle into a Plano single scoped rifle case and it just fit. That case is 51.5 inches on the inside.

The gun is all metal and wood. The barrel is aluminum finished matte black and the blackened receiver is steel. Air Ordnance must have designed the receiver so it can’t be turned into a firearm, because BATF&E wouldn’t permit it to be sold without registration if it could.

The buttstock and forearm are walnut that’s stained dark brown. The wood is plain, but the stain is even and there is no wood filler to be seen. The forearm ends in a slight schnabel.

The gun is light but very well balanced heavy. The lightweight barrel does not pull down at the front.

Open sights

The rifle comes with open sights front and rear. The front is a tall brass blade similar to a Kentucky rifle blade but much taller and the rear is a full buckhorn — a type of sight seldom seen these days. It’s a range-compensating sight, once you learn how to use it. The rear sight has a couple different notches to choose from and is adjustable for elevation, only. Some windage correction is possible by drifting both the front and rear sights sideways in their dovetail slots.

The front sight harkens back to the 1850s.

The full buckhorn rear sight has different notches to choose from. It adjusts for elevation only.

Weaver bases

The rifle is supplied with Weaver bases that attach to the action and the barrel. So the gun can be scoped. I will do it, because the test wouldn’t be complete without it, but my personal preference is to use the open sights.

The rifle comes with Weaver bases that attach to the receiver and barrel.

Summary

We have a brand new big bore airgun to test. This one has a number of differences from other big bores that will make this an interesting test. There is so much new stuff that I will make a Part 2 to the introduction, and we will look at the air cartridges and filling station in that part. I’m learning this stuff right along with you, so stay tuned.

Whoa. Boy, if I’m understanding this right–that we’re talking about a self-contained cartridge that expends itself each time and is then “reloaded” with another 4500psi charge–this is truly an interesting idea. Maybe pictures would be good enough, but I’d love to see video of the actual load-fire-unload cycle, in addition to what you show us about actually filling and managing the cartridges themselves.

Yeah, I’ll be watching this report with significant interest. Hopefully the idea takes off, and we soon see something workable at the 2000-3000 psi level–whether as a big bore, or perhaps as a cartridge that can support multiple low-powered shots from a small bore.

This reminds me of all the acronyms that are now accepted words. I wonder how many people remember what the original acronym stood for. The following come to mind: scuba, radar, and laser. Then there is the military’s snafu and fubar.

The first Modoc had three air cartridges that all leaked. The second one had two bad ones and one that worked once. They even send a blank cartridge so you could fill the other two when one leaked. They knew that sealing was a problem.

Another shooter had a cartridge go off when the breech was open. The cartridge went into his abdomen and bruised him deeply.

So in my opinion, the Modoc is not safe. And it also doesn’t work very well.

They are trying to sell off the remains of the production run, I think.

Maybe you should post a very brief part 2 with that info to let people know.

I know it’s uncomfortable to write bad reviews when they sent you their product but if the company can’t be trusted to stop selling an unsafe air rifle then we rely on trusted writers like you to help us a avoid a huge mistake.

Too many companies feel that it is ok to sell a $1,000+ gun that can’t hold air properly these days. The FX Impact is another one with never-ending “teething issues”. Holding air should be the easiest thing to check before it leaves the factory.

Most of us don’t find out about these issues until after we bought them because almost every review is positive.

If that is what they are sending the most respected airgun reporter to review, God knows what other nasty surprises are waiting in the Modocs that are picked at random for the rest of us… That guy was lucky to get away with just a bruise. He could have lost an eye or worse.

Thanks for the info in its failure. It looks like Airgun Web had an excited review about how they fixed all the issues and so on, in June 2015. Sounds like it has been plagued with issues from the onset though, because he did mention resolving issues. I am an old cowboy shooter, SASS 13825, and used to compete long range with a Browning Highwall 45/70. this reminds me of that. But if it is going off on the breach with out provocation, that would be horrible. It conjures pics or a 45/70 shell doing something like that. Ugh. Hope they fix it, or ditch it. If they fix it, then I would like to see a thorough review. Also, I am skeptical of the longevity of an aluminum barrel as well. If composite BB’s can wear out an aluminum airsoft barrel, what make anyone think lead would not wear one out? Thanks for Article, I read them all the time.

Would there be a need to hydrotest these HPA cartridges periodically? I’ve heard somewhere that hydrotesting is uneccessary if the cylinders walls were very thick relative to their bore. Or are they just given a rated lifespan that indicates replacement at some point in time depending on usage?

You are correct that MODOC is an acronym and not the proper noun name of the Indian tribe. However, acronyms are themselves sometimes names and therefore also proper nouns (e.g. M.A.D.D., Mothers Against Drunk Driving). Therefore in that sense, Para Ordnance has given the product a name, so it is a proper noun in the same way that Marauder is a proper noun for a Benjamin product.

Additionally, if not for the real word Modoc, as in the Indian tribe, then MODOC would not be an acronym — it would be merely an abbreviation (e.g. FBI, NRA, etc.). For an abbreviation to also be an acronym, it must spell out a word. For example, MOAB, Mother of All Bombs is an acronym because it is also a real word, a town in Utah.

I looked up the MOAB a while back because I couldn’t believe the Brass actually named it after that phrase although that’s what we lowlyAirmen said it stood for.
I found it to be an acronym for “Massive Ordinance Air Blast”. It was developed just about the time my discharge was.

If I’m not mistaken, first there was the Daisycutter, then there was the even more powerful MOAB, and then there was the yet more powerful FOAB. One or more of these also might have the distinction of being a bunker-busting, penetrating device, although for the most part these huge bombs, though conventional, are detonated at a particular altitude above the target as is the case with hydrogen bombs.

I believe we now have conventional (non-atomic) bombs that are at least as devastating as the two we dropped on Japan to stop the war.

I can see how MODOC could be a name if it refers to something, but how can it be an acronym if no one knows what words the individual letters signify which is my understanding of an acronym. Surely all capitals is not sufficient. This is sort of like the zen koan about where a tree really falls in the forest if no one hears it. Does the acronym exist if know one knows what it means?

I agree that just because the meaning of a word, such as the Modoc tribe, is not known by many people does not make an acronym that spells that word, such as MODOC, not a legitimate acronym.

Of course an acronym is a type of abbreviation, one that spells out a word. But abbreviations that do not spell out a word are, well, just abbreviations (CIA, KGB, FBI, IRS, NRA, NAACP, etc.). Sometimes an abbreviation can be used so often by so many speakers that it eventually does indeed become an actual word, such as, arguably, FUBAR / fubar.

Which also leads one to the observation that many abbreviations come out of the military or government (DOD, POTUS, SCOTUS, DOT, DNR, etc.)

Young Grasshopper – ‘Master, what is the sound of one hand clapping?’
Master, using only one hand, slaps YG in face – ‘Young Grasshopper, that is a foolish question when your master has not yet had his morning coffee!’

I am a hiker of national forests & parks. I have very often gone hours off trail, and I can assure you that trees do fall & lay still on the ground out there in the deep dark forests! What I am less sure of is if they made any noise doing this…

And independently invented by me! Remember when I proposed the idea of separate chargeable air containers in bandoleers and you said that it had already been invented by Air Force? 🙂 Well this gun shows that the idea lives on!

Now cue the Star Trek dialogue.

Green woman:
Shall I compare thee to a summer’s day?
Thou are more lovely and more temperate.

Lord Garth: You didn’t invent that! It was invented by an Earthman named Shakespeare 500 years ago.

BB
I love the classic lines of this big bore air rifle. From the pictures, the workmanship looks quite respectable too. The front and rear sights also have a “well made” look to them. I am totally unfamiliar with the way the steel air cartridge also holds a bullet, and like a few others commenting before me, would like to see a short video of just how it loads, and shoots.
As for the aluminum barrel, well, if Air Ordinance has done their homework, and tested extensively for durability and accuracy, the weight savings could produce a welcome change in the airgun industry as a whole. I sure would like an accurate, durable, and light weight Weihrauch HW97, or Beeman R1. I’m looking forward to your impressions about this “new?” idea for producing airgun barrels.
Ciao
Titus

BB
One thing I noticed concerning the rear sight. You say the rear buckhorn sight is adjustable for elevation only. Would the screw on the right “horn” help with windage adjustment? I must confess to being unfamiliar with adjustments on this type of sight. It truly is a thing of beauty just to look at, and contemplate why these and other older sights have fallen out of favour with most modern shooters. Also, the supplied Weaver bases should prove a welcome touch to new owners as well.
Titus

If possible, could you test this rifle with a fill pressure of 3000 PSI?

I have very seriously considered the rifle, but the Al barrel concerns me for the very reason you have stated. I know air rifle barrels are not hardened steel like firearms, but wrapping my head around Al being hard enough is going to take some doing.

I also think that this air rifle would be a perfect candidate for a William Malcom replica.

My thought on that is that aluminum is very structurally strong, but we see the surface softeness and think it can carry much load. I think the framework of lands and grooves will survive because the pressure is sliding on all edges evenly, but that the surface will smooth itself out, a good thing. I imagine the rifling isnt a micro sized bump of lands, but square cut muzxleloader rifling. Maybe, BB, you could photo down the bore?

Its a great gun, just like an airhawk but nicer stock and 22, I had it gettin into a rhythm and ran out of jsbs. Then I switched the scope and have been trying to zero all while no pellets it likes! Hitting the pause button on it till more pellets and want to try some rws superdomes and heavier jsb 18s. I took it down to a 10-7/8ths barrel so lost the chambers. I just cut the front sight out of that muzzle tube and jb welded to the barrel and have been trying it with the open sights, guess what? Better groups!-? I think focusing on the alignment and having to have my face in the exact same spot to get the sight together has found a good hold for it. They arent the greatest cause they still arent the pellet for it but I know this thing can shoot, I’ve seen it do it. Still lining it all up. Replacing both trigger springs, smoothing and longer adjustment screw, clean lube, shim with hard rubber washers in the front inside of the piston, it is a nice marshmellow slinger. Cphps topped out at 750, hn bhx 19gr at 630, ruger superpoints 16gr at 670. Not a magnum but rabbits, fine, squirrels-headshot, sparrows, etc. Without the pellets for it its not reliable for any of it past 10-15 max right now, get what it wants and finish zeroing it in, 30-40

I used one tin of CPHP’s to open up the breech for easier loading then went back to the Superpoints,
I’m considering a cheek riser because that’s a deficiency of the stock design and I wouldn’t mind having the silenceair outta the way but otherwise mine’s still stock. I don’t have the range I used to and can’t wait to try it out further but it’s spitting out Monsters faster than my 2400KT on HPA.

Yes, some high density foam shaped nice and glued down, its a steady slope to the butt without any distinct place for your cheek. The checkerings good and I like the butt pad a little hard but… its a sharp little thing for the price, and so simple its stupid mechanically. I would suggest the 34 and clones to any new tinkerer, I didnt need a spring compressor to get in and out either. Im thinking I might strip the poly and do it up while its in limbo but when I get to rodderin’ it might have to wait a while and do it one of the many snowy days ahead. Between oil, gettin the mrod and lookin for a pump ill be on the street holdin a sign says “will work for pellets” 😉 lol.

🙂
I was actually thinking about cutting the top half of the combination out and implanting risers inside.
Just don’t want it down too long, but I’ll try that first before I get too fancy with it.
What you doing with the silencer & barrel leftovers?

25.39 gr, PA had em down to $8.99 a couple months ago and I got 4 tins because my 2400 likes em but tried them in the Impact when I ran outta Superpoints and it stacks em at 10yds.
One of these days I’ll be getting some of the lighter JSB’s to try in it or maybe I’ll make me a sign too.
🙂

I am still thinking about the potential benefits of a lower friction bore. Less friction, less wear? Faster pellet?

When filing aluminum it feels a lot more “slick” than filing steel – almost like filing an oil-lite bushing. LOL!

Do you think that an aluminum bore would work-harden if the rifling was swaged instead of cut?

The natural oxide finish that develops on the aluminum is quite tough. An aluminum oxide anodising is harder than steel and close to that of sapphire (which is another form of aluminum oxide). Anodising is easy to apply as well.

Maybe the idea of using aluminum for a barrel is not so far fetched. Brass has been used for airgun barrels for decades and the two materials are similar in hardness.

Hmmmmm… Wonder if a bore could be doped with molybdenum to reduce the friction… off on another tangent 🙂

Lovely “sharpsesque” styling. Now, if only Walther could bring out their lever action in 22 with a hpa reservoir in the stock producing 12fpe my bank card would take a kicking
I think anyone buying this will need to order another half dozen reservoirs….could have been great if it was in 22 and 15fpe….the shot count could have quadrupled.

Remington will take exception to that description. Sharps and Remington were fierce competitors in the time the rolling block was made.

The rolling block was stronger than the Sharps and had far superior extraction, but for some reason the Sharps was the favorite of its day –at least among individuals. Armies, however, favored the Remington, which was made in huge quantities around the world. The Sharps was not as popular with governments.

You can check me out, but I’m pretty sure the Remington is stronger than the Sharps. The rolling block is one of the strongest actions ever created, as almost noting can blow it open.

You may be right about the price. The rolling block was certainly simpler to make. But positive extraction was a very big deal back when cartridges were prone to swell. Custer’s men all had fired cartridges jammed in their trapdoors when they were found.

The Freund brothers invented a way to improve the Sharps action, but Sharps wanted nothing to do with it. So they sold it on their own and made quite a few conversions.

Could I request that you test how many pumps it takes to fill a cartridge with a hand-pump?

I know that topping off the reservoirs on me Hammerli AR20 and Dominator 1250 takes a bit of effort and quite a few strokes. I am wondering if the smaller cartridges might be fairly quick and easy to fill.

Thinking that if the volume of the cartridge is relative to the volume of the bore then a smaller caliber rifle – say .25 – would be very interesting because it would need less air and the cartridges would be easier to load and carry.

I am kinda viewing this rifle as a large calibre multi-pump where the pump is off-rifle and you have swappable reservoirs.

I am in the process of refurbishing the Crosman 101 multi-pump that I used as a kid and I always wished that I could have had extra reservoirs for a quicker second shot. This rifle has that capability.

9mm would be great for larger varmints but I would be very interested in a scaled down light weight .25 calibre version especially if the aluminum barrel shows long-range potential.

BB,
I enjoyed the blog yesterday about where you get your marvelous toys. One of my favorite aspects of the airgun shows is that I almost always learn about some gun that I never knew about before the show. The first Shamal I was at the Little Rock Show. I learned about the Belgium Hyscore 801 at one of the shows. I learned about the BSA Scorpion pistol at one of the shows. There have been a lot of others over the years too.

Tom, thanks for this review.
I arranged a visit to see and try the MODOC at their facility earlier this year. Mr. Hollowpoint came along and we tried some of his bullets.
I was impressed with the design, solid feel and light weight of the gun. My concerns were about the aluminum barrel, and the bulk/weight of the cartridges.
Upon firing, I noticed a puff of air across my forehead. I don’t know if it was coming from the tail end of the cartridge or some kind of blowback from farther forward in the barrel.
There were some issues with some of the cartridges we used in the shop, but they may not have been representative of normal production run.
We weren’t testing for accuracy, and I found it hard to use the open sights with my glasses.
We shot around 15 times through their chronograph, using 4 different Mr Hollowpoint bullets, with fill pressures between 3500 and 3800 PSI. Our lightest bullet was 75 grains, heaviest 100 grains. FPE was mostly in the 170s. Our max was about 193 FPE (3700 PSI, 100 grains, 933 FPS).
I’m really looking forward to seeing how the above compares with Tom’s results.

Air Ordnance had problems with the air cartridges. That’s what held up production of the gun so long. That air puff was indicative. Many of Gary Barnes airguns did that. I used to call them glaucoma testers.

Thanks for your data. I am excited to see how the rifle I have compares.

I have checked out these guns already. I like the looks of the gun and I can see where the cartridge’s could be appealing to people. But I just don’t care for having to carry the extra cartridges around and fill multiple ones at that. I guess a air tank or large buddy bottle with a filll adapter could help out in the feild.

But I would have to say I would choose a AirForce Texan for multiple reasons when comparing it to the MODOC. And I would probably even consider the Hatsan .30 or .357 caliber over the MODOC.

The Hatsan would be a plus for a follow up shot. Especially if your shooting at something in at closer distances like a hog or coyote.

Maybe the MODOC and Texan could be loaded equally as fast but then I would probably chose the Texan because of power and maybe the Texan has more accuracy also.

My eyes noticed the difference in diameter immediately and I’m sure that affects performance.
That’s why I never put much stock in naysayers of 9mm rounds’ stopping power. There’s so many different types.

Actually, big bore airguns with air cartridges that allow you to carry 6 to 12 full power shots makes more sense as a hunting gun than a reservoir gun which only has two to three full power shots. This made me lookup BB’s article on the Saxby Palmer air cartridge gun. One of the local pawn shops has one in .22 caliber. I’ll have to see if they have the air cartridges and the pump for it.

The aluminum barrel would unsettle my mind enough to not make it worthwhile. I expect my airguns to last for centuries. And what is the big deal with lighter weight anyway? Extra weight helps me with recoil.

Gunfun1, I fired my green laser all over the house last night at my action figures, but that is about the extent of it. I am working up to a range extravaganza before Thanksgiving. I also had quite a night dry-firing which is to say playing with my firearms. The Mauser actually jammed on a snap cap in spite of the controlled round feeding. This is a reminder that my Russian guns, the Mosin and the Saiga stand alone in terms of reliability. There is never even the slightest hint of any failure to feed. They are like manifestations of destiny.

In battle no Boom is unacceptable. The only Russian gun I’ve ever shot was my Baikal Makarov and never experienced a failure but only had it for about 100 rounds. I’d definitely be interested in another one!

Matt61
Sometimes it’s more fun locating and holding the laser on target rather than actually shooting.

I had a laser mounted on a 760 under the barrel and a red dot sight mounted on the dovetail. I taught both of my daughters to shoot bench rest with the gun when they were young. They used the red dot and I watched the laser. It gave me a visual of how steady their hold was.

I just sent 10 Winchester 9.8gr round noses through the Regal, one hit about 1/2″ low but the other 9 punched through the target and my 3/8″ plywood backer leaving a 1/2″ hole I’m my fence rail. Time to get a bigger steel plate!

I live about 1/4 miles from the scrap yard and the manager is the guy I bought my 3120 from so I can get a plate for next to nothing but the steel also adds the feedback I’m missing since I no longer have my pellet trap.
I’m also wary of the heat in summer.

9mm big bore, air cartridge PCP, light aluminum barrel, historical Remington replica……What’s there not to like? But mostly it’s the looks that will sell this gun….. Just like the Daisy M1 BB Carbine, the Walther LP 53 007 pistol, and the S&W 79&78 G CO2 pistols.

It is also pricey……… But that seems to add an image of exclusivity for certain products. The Benjamin Bulldog Bullpup of similar caliber, makes more sense technology wise, for the price. But I can’t seem to like it as much as this Modoc. I predict this will be an airgun classic collectors will salivate about when it is long gone. It will have that certain collectible mistyque. Ooops, now that I’ve written this, I better get one now before prices go up!

As to the name……I have to read up more about the Modocs. Was the Remington Rolling Bloc their favorite weapon? Did they use this gun in their last stand in 1873. Seems kinda unlikely though, since the cartridge Remingtons were still quite new at the time and the Modocs might not have had access to them yet.

That video was absolutely frightening! A 20 mm steel ball would be slightly over 25/32″ in diameter and would have some substantial mass. He is lucky that the ball hit him a glancing blow to the top of his head and not straight on or it may have killed him. He may have still gotten a fractured skull or concussion, that was a serious head wound. Do you know what the extent of his injuries were?

My guess is that his backstop was constructed of some sort of hardwood which accented the velocity of the rebound almost as badly as a solid steel plate would have.

I am surprised that no one else weighed in on this since there were several comments months ago concerning slingshots.

Gunfun, That sounds like a good why to aim, a laser dot on the target covered by a dot sight or even scope reticle, the difference between the two could help to visualize hold over and range? Maybe cross in a why that would be useful?

RDNA
I would be afraid of looking through the scope on a gun that has a laser on it like the one I have. I got a green laser that can be seen in daylight easily at a hundred yards.

You know if the magnification is turned up on your scope it could do some damage to your eye possibly. I had my daughter shine mine on my target paper that had the bright colored binder circle stickers with the hole in it placed on the white copier paper. I then took a picture of it. The laser dot showed up white in the picture and all the circle stickers showed up as a grayish black color. In other words it looked like a black and white picture.

So I don’t know about that all though they do use laser bore sighters with scopes. Maybe they ain’t as powerful of lasers though either.

The red dot that I used on the gun may of been at the most 1 magnification and we used a cheapy read laser that verily showed up out side at 20 yards in the shade. And you couldn’t see that laser in the sunshine like my green laser.

Just figured I would point that out and not for sure about if a high powered laser would be a good idea with magnification.

I was gonna say, move it on down! The riser implanted in a cut out would look mint on the ruger, needs it too. I had some good groups with 19 grs and it felt like it could take more so somewhere between monsters and those. Heard of piledrivers? Think its like 31 gr in 22 – !!! Definitely pcp territory or multipump.., 2400?

I’ve heard of the piledrivers but that’s about it. I’ll check em out but even the Monsters are a little heavy for the KT on it’s current configuration and tune.but both it and the Impact would drop a solid 20# varmint out to about 20yds without a doubt.

I found a piece by B.B. on the .177 piledrivers and may get some to try in the Regal. It could use the extra weight well I believe.I was thinking more in the lines of Eun Jins but those piledrivers might actually fit that Mrod mag better for you. Can’t wait to hear about your first PCP!
Sounds like you’re getting a really good start.
If I can find a .25 refurbished or used I’d be interested in one of those.
I had high hopes for the.22 but it sounds like it’s best to stay away from them.
If someone came up with a fix for the accuracy on them the market would probably explode.

Yeah, those green lasers are mucg stronger, the question is does the radiatiin bounce back? Is the damage to eyes because of radiation or intense lumens concentrated? Are they the same thing? I dont know, but light can bounce back, and the light from the laser is also radiation, so I guess it depends on the magnifaction and the reflectivity of the surface and you could probably hurt your eyes, especially the closer you are.

RDNA
I can tell you this. I got a red laser one time that I was going to put on a pistol and I was messing with it out in the garage before I put it on. I was shining at stuff and happened to go past the head lights on the car. Hit all those reflective angles and the laser was going everywhere. Was having a blast watching the show till it flashed my eye. Put it this way I stopped after that.

As the saying goes. Tools are good when used right but also can be dangerous if used wrong.

Thank you, I didn’t read any of the replies, I just searched for part two and not finding it I posted the question. I knew it was old, but thought it wouln’t make sense to ask about this post or rifle elsewhere. Too bad about the design being unsafe!

You are welcome, I believe they may have worked out the issues but they are recommending 3000-3500 max air pressure. To me it is a bit too pricey for what it is, see it over here; https://air-ordnance.com/modoc/ at the bottom of the page they have a pair of auto fire .22’s that might well be a lot of fun.

You posted your comment on a blog that was written in 2015. I do not remember there being any more parts to this one. You could post your question here https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/ and maybe another reader could help you out.