October 11, 2011

Is it only on line? I see it here, but I can't find it on TV. Feel free to discuss it in the comments. I'm not really live-blogging — because it's not on TV! — but I'll talk about it if the spirit moves me.

ADDED: If it's not on TV, I don't want to watch. The streaming on-line is too tedious. I'll wait for the transcript. And read what Jaltcoh has to say.

AND: Thanks to Rob in the comments for giving me the channel number. That was really hard to find! Okay, I'm watching now.

ALSO: I realize I've just written the most boring debate live-blog of all time.

Herman Cain and his 9-9-9 plan were front-and-center all night, while Rick Perry, who many considered the frontrunner just a few weeks ago, was something of an after-thought in the debate. He hit a few bloop singles when a lot of people thought he needed clear home runs. Mitt Romney showed a little more verve than he has in previous debates and seemed perfectly comfortable defending his record and showed a knack for the counterpunch (particularly with regard to Cain's 9-9-9 plan). If he and Cain are one and two, voters will have a VERY clear choice between the maverick and the manager.

Mitt Romney did very well again. He comes across as strong, reassuring, articulate, experienced, knowledgeable. At one point, other candidates peppered him with questions. That helped Romney, I think–he came across as the candidate who matters. He also defended Romneycare more passionately than I have seen before. His pitch in his closing statement for a strong America was powerful, given the breaking news on Iran’s apparent terrorist plot inside the U.S.

"Andy R. said...Can we talk about how Cain is a serious credible candidate?"

I know. He a douchebag with a bad 70's haircut, who wears his hat a weird angle, and has a bunch of blogs about being Jewsih and gay that no one reads. Plus he's a moron who has accomplished nothing in life.

Can't they just play classical music during the breaks? But not frantic North By Northwest-style violin jamming?

"She does this dancing finger thing...My Mom's pretty weird."

"There are many ways to start the day...We'll be tracking the story." Translation: We'll be staring at a computer screen.

Listening, not watching:

Bachmann: Dissing Perry. Why bother? She's fighting for 4th place.

Perry: Texas, Texas, Texas. Texas, Texas. Texas.

Cain: 999! Simple! Fair! Gets a laugh. Again.

Romney: Says he doesn't like simple answers. I just read a quote from Jobs in BW: "Simple can be harder than complex. You have to work hard to get your thinking clean to make it simple." I bet Steve Jobs would loathe Romney. The Seven Major Pillars. Is that from the Old Testament? Bright Horizons Childrens Centers. "Net net." Please use words and terms average folks understand. "Net net." People hate people with MBAs.

Gingrich: Yea, verily...the Speaker! We listeneth. Uses words like "rationale." Is that French?

Huntsman: How boring. Nasty attacks. Ugh.

Paul: Can't you just imagine this guy with a bottle of cheap whiskey sitting on a rock under an interstate overpass? Or on some 1930s radio show? "Wall Street! The banks! Foreign Governments!" Rant, rant, rant.

Cain: Message to Paul: Do not fuck with me. 999! Jobs, jobs, jobs. Huge laugh. People can understand this guy. He is a human being.

Amy Carter yammering about adult crap. The earth would still be flat. Infiniti. Clean water for the village. Teleconference and babies will not die in Uganda. Reality sets back in. Another child yapping, using words like "infrastructure." What would Charles Dickens think? Ear shredding electronic music. We're back!

Perry: Block grant those dollars back to the state. What is he talking about? Only geeks talk like this.

Cain: Guy must know numbers. He was on the Fed. He has secret Fed candidates!!! Maybe that guy from Moneyball.

Paul: Bet he was a good doctor. His heart is in the right place. Warm fuzzies.

Ann, we have U-verse, too. Your Bloomberg channel may be a different spot, but it should be in the block of news channels with CNN and Fox.

First, it's not a debate, it's an extended version of the Charlie Rose Show - and not a very good one.

First, I think Perry saved his campaign tonight. He still needs some polish, but he did well enough to stay afloat. He's trying to emulate Herman in the way he always pushes 9-9-9 and he needs to put more zip into it.

Bachmann and Newt had good debates, particularly Bachmann. She really shone for the first time in a month and she should move up a little.

Herman, of course was great - that's why Hatman tries his FUD routine all the time.

But for God's sake who picks these questioners - RINO Central?

Karen Tumulty is a disgrace. When she asked why the Wall Street crowd wasn't in jail, somebody should have nailed her ass to the wall with a lecture on due process (I wish you know who were running just so she could have delivered that lecture).

When the babe from Bloomie asked that inane question about poverty, I wish somebody had noted that it was the most comfortable poverty in the history of the human race - complete with iPods, cell phones, and cable TV - and had thrown back in her face that the dollar figure used to determine who is "in poverty" doesn't include income from welfare, unemployment, or food stamps.

Psychedelic George, Andy R. and company are hot to trot to kill the golden goose, destroy it utterly and then...and then the dictatorship of the proletariat, I guess. Or maybe they don't even know that's what's in store for them should Occupy Occupy Occupy "succeed." Thank God and our founders for the 2nd Amendment.

The fewer people that are insured the higher the premiums will be_______________

Let's do away with this FRAUD about RomneyCare and ObamaCare right now.

Neither one of them is really intended to have more people who are "insured." What they want is more people who pay premiums, period.

Specifically, they want young, healthy people, who will not use or otherwise increase demand for actual healthcare services, to pay vast sums of money into the system and never use it. They want people who have no real need for the product to be enough of a sucker to buy it anyway.

Neither RomneyCare nor ObamaCare are healthcare plans -- they are finance plans. They are plans designed to separate people from their money by force of law.

Romney and Cain did very well. Perry didn't raise to level he needed to change his direction. He was sitting there watching all the economic discussion he looked like he was lost at that point. I think Gingrich is great theater and is trying for VP. I also think Cain is vying for VP on a Romney ticket, and I'm starting to like that idea. Bachmann didn't hurt or help..she'll remain stalled in fourth. To the person who wondered why Romney asked his question of Bachmann..it's because he didn't feel threatened by Perry at all..and Cain as a second to Romney is good for him. and the focus of Cain's 9-9-9 were all asked. Huntsman and Santorum will still go nowhere. Ron Paul had the chance to shine on the economic focus and the Fed, he came across looking nutty. This Joanna questioner attack/ questions on Cain's 9-9-9 plan was a good chance for Cain to demonstrate trickle down. Romney is wrapping it up, Cain might win Iowa and SC, Romney wins NH, Nevada, Mich and Florida..and then sweeps the rest of the races.

Makin' it, doesn't matter how many Takin'it Well, I can't shake it Off of my back, damn monkey It's either too tight Or it's too slack

How much That's all it is ooh Ninety nine How much, yahh Now, ninety nine You better hack it baby Yea, my time exploded, space blew up Need something in my dixie cup Whoa, let me get it right There's the best pair of lips I've kissed all night

How much, well give it to me I'll pay you later Nine ninety nine Ohh, I got a pocket calculator Yeah, wake up, it don't make sense Nickles and dimes Nine ninety nine

The lion and the lamb are locked in an embrance You won't get it till it's in your face Ohh, I got me out of depper red Don't panic Ah, it's where I want to be Yeah, oh A useful member of society, huh! I just need a little of that old money

Gimme ninety nine, yea Well, I can't shake it off of my back God damn monkey Aw, it's too tight, or it's too slack Yeah some things never change Price of bullets remains the same

Here we go Hand over fist, slap on the wrist Umm, nine nine That's all I'm askin'How much How much do you want to give Just a little bit Nine Yeah they operate Look at the state of my baby Wll, it cost 20 grand, pitfull Yeah, that's a nine Put your money where your mouth is Cough it up Ohh nickels and dimes Yeah, huh, ooh

Boston Globe:Presidential challenger Mitt Romney accused President Barack Obama of failing to lead in a time of economic peril but sounded less conservative than his Republican rivals in their debate Tuesday night, defending the 2008 Wall Street bailout and declaring he can work with "good" Democrats.

Just what we need ... another Republican working with Democrats to enact their agenda.

How in the fuck is Mitt Romney still allowed at Republican Party events?

For people who vote purely on race alone, and I suppose there are millions, they would have to vote for Cain over Obama. Cain is blacker than Obama. I don't mean just in the technical sense of darker, but both of his parents were black, whereas Obama only had one black parent, and not even from the tragic tradition of the slave ancestry. So, Cain is blacker.

I realize that on a deeper level we are all African Americans since we all ultimately derive from Africa. That is, all of our ancestors came from Africa, since that's where the human species first developed.

But for the people who vote on blackness alone, and see race as the sole criterion in the race, wouldn't Cain trump Obama?

edutcher - "Karen Tumulty is a disgrace. When she asked why the Wall Street crowd wasn't in jail, somebody should have nailed her ass to the wall with a lecture on due process..."

This isn't about "due process" it is about how the country lost two trillion to those fucking Wall Street assholes and they are so well-protected by both Parties that there are no investigations or indictments coming.

Worse than 9/11. When the same inter-Party Cabal ensured that not a single FBI, CIA, FAA person was fired, demoted,even reassigned. And the bitch behind the Gorelick Wall, was named to the 9/11 Commission.

============PS, Bender...why not just shut up and join the Obama campaign? You'd be like a brain dead, stone age reactionary conservative evangelical NCO I knew that was so upset Buchanan lost out to HW Bush that he voted for Dukakis.

People, listen up. The Presidency is not a debating job. The President doesn't debate - he decides. He lays out direction, creates atmosphere for a particular dynamic and action. He doesn't argue - he directs.

What is most important is what he knows, believes, and is willing to accept responsibility for.

The rest is like watching your plumber play baseball. It doesn't matter one bit how good he is at it. It's not what you hired hm for.

edutcher - "Karen Tumulty is a disgrace. When she asked why the Wall Street crowd wasn't in jail, somebody should have nailed her ass to the wall with a lecture on due process..."

This isn't about "due process" it is about how the country lost two trillion to those fucking Wall Street assholes and they are so well-protected by both Parties that there are no investigations or indictments coming.

Again, Cedar pursues his own agenda. Anyone who wants people to go to jail when they didn't break the law makes it about due process.

The broad from the WaPo wanted bankers to go to jail for being the beneficiaries of the Democrats' ghastly policies.

Of course, the "people who lost two trillion" aren't "those fucking Wall Street assholes (notice how the Lefties can't make a case without four letter words?)"; the ones who should be going to jail are GodZero, Timmy Geithner, the Friend of Angelo, and Slobbering Barney, but the WaPo will never go for that.

bagoh20 said...People, listen up. The Presidency is not a debating job. The President doesn't debate - he decides. He lays out direction, creates atmosphere for a particular dynamic and action. He doesn't argue he directs===============I don't think you know how leadership on a team works. Or that leaders must negotiate. Or that debate shows how well some people can do in real life situations vs their ability to deliver their scriptwriters lines.

Not necessarily does debate skill = competency and ability to have critical thought skills.....but it sure exposes the candidates that don't.

And absolutely, Romney will still have to work with Democrats, media people, the public that needs a good communicator, state governors that will not be bowing waiting for their next instruction. Being President is a little different than being Stalin or Pol Pot.Each President save the bad ones like Jimmy, Dubya, and Obama debate and negotiate every day as part of the job.

----------------Also Nevadabob...."Romney _ , defending the 2008 Wall Street bailout and declaring he can work with "good" Democrats.

Just what we need ... another Republican working with Democrats

How in the fuck is Mitt Romney still allowed at Republican Party events?

He's a goddamned traitor."

By your logic, Reagan was a traitor, too. Every week he scheduled meetings to formally or informally sit down with not just Republicans, but the likes of Robert Byrd, Tip O'Neill, George Mitchell, Jim Wright to hash over things. He would make phone calls just to keep up with governors like Mario Cuomo, Ann Richards..Add traitors like HW Bush and Nixon and Clinton after his 1994 wakeup call sat down and worked the problems all the time.

Obama did not sit down with Boehner and McConnell for 2 years. He's your kinda guy. Uncompromising.

"I don't think you know how leadership on a team works. Or that leaders must negotiate."

Funny Cedarford. It's all I've done for almost 3 decades, and very successfully, but go ahead - tell me how it works. Tell me how the guy who delivers a cool one-line comeback is gonna do a better job than the guy who has succeeded at every leadership role he ever had. Tell me how those cute comebacks deliver smart leadership in the war room or on the phone negotiating with a senator. I bet that works really well.

FWIW, it could be, for sure, and would be, likelier than not, quite interesting and perhaps even illuminating if there could be at least one, if not two (maybe three; but only maybe), debates entirely devoted to the candidates asking each other questions. Things got more notable when things got more interesting in this debate.

Ever wonder why nobody is ever satisfied with the leaders they pick in this democracy? Because they pick the best campaign not the best leader. They don't pick the best qualified - they pick the best presentation. The let down is after you get it home and open the package, the presentation is history, the slick package goes in the garbage, BECAUSE IT DOESN'T DO ANYTHING.

Everybody loved the Obama package. All around the world they raved at the new colors, the hip packaging is new and different. He was so relaxed and cool. He handled all the questions so smoothly. How about that dancing with Ellen, and the crisp pants crease. Sheese. Do we ever learn?

Just what we need ... another Republican working with Democrats to enact their agenda___________

A President Weasel would destroy what remains of the Republican Party. At a time when much of the entire ediface of government needs to be torn down to save the country, he is the back-to-business-as-usual candidate.

He will not be a fighter. Even with a Republican Congress, he (and Boehner, et al.) will always be looking ahead to the next election, saying we can't do what needs to be done because we might alienate the oh-so-important moderates.

1. Romney picked Michelle Bachmann to answer his question, which was right up Bachmanns alley and which she answered well. Exactly as Mitt wanted, because I think the Romney Campaign wants to keep her around as long as possible to siphon votes from Perry. All in all, crazy lady was the most improved.

2. Romney again smartest and most informed. Newt a close 2nd.

3. First attacks on Cain's 9-9-9 Plan, which is getting about as repetitious as Rudy Giuliani's 9/11. Cain gave a decent defense, but also showed he had little other than 9-9-9 to run on and other candidates made inroads saying the economy needed a lot more than tax reform, that it shifted the tax burden downwards from the very wealthiest, and it would open up a whole new pipeline for the government to collect taxes and no one could guarantee it wouldn't soon become a 9-9-13,14 plan.

4. Perry did better than the last debate, but still no really in the mix and still all about Texas...

5. Santorum hit Perry hard again, and won this debate exchange as well as the last debate, when he hammered Perry.

Meanwhile, it is looking increasingly like those who vote Republican will live up to their name of the Stupid Party.

More concerned with appearances and who does best in the TV game show debate than with philosophy and actual governing results. They prove that they can be just as shallow and inane as the Dems who fell for guys like John Edwards.

Ever wonder why nobody is ever satisfied with the leaders they pick in this democracy? Because they pick the best campaign not the best leader. They don't pick the best qualified - they pick the best presentation.

Honestly, bagoh20, that is the truth. That is the truth all the way around. The problem is that it's also the truth more generally; that is the truth most of the way around for most of human endeavor. It, this, happens in business, too. Given that, bagoh20, coupled with your experience of working for yourself and running a business on a smaller scale, what observations and issues, if any, do you have with your counterparts involved in running vast, large businesses?

I wish a few of the GOP candidates would refuse to debate under these conditions. Why? The Dems never allow Fox to question them. Why do Republicans get liberals to ask questions in GOP primary debates.

Just. Say. No.

Get real conservatives to ask questions in the GOP primaries. Then in the general, limit the debates but demand equal representation (GOP picks some, Dems pick some).

I wish a few of the GOP candidates would refuse to debate under these conditions. Why? The Dems never allow Fox to question them. Why do Republicans get liberals to ask questions in GOP primary debates.

Just. Say. No.

Get real conservatives to ask questions in the GOP primaries. Then in the general, limit the debates but demand equal representation (GOP picks some, Dems pick some).

Alternatively, let's just dispense with debates, the such and all that jazz. Instead, just put up a static series of links to candidate websites. Publish that series/collection everywhere, in and via old media and new media both. Leave it at that; why bother otherwise or worry.

Roger J. said... seems to me debates are silly--looks to me like they are forums for moderators to hog the show.

I've never watched one. They are not important. What's more important, are the people in the House and Senate. 535 individuals who routinely fuck everything up for the rest of us. You know, the 99%-ers.

Did Charlie Rose forget the alphabet a second time and forget to give Santorum a 30-second wrap up at the end? I got distracted, sounds like Charlie did too!

PS - During the section where candidates asked each other questions? Romney lobs a softball to Bachmann. Brilliant - he looks good for treating her respectfully, he avoids giving Perry or Cain more TV time, she gets credibility, and the social conservatives don't coalesce behind a single opponent.

I was disappointed that Herman Cain named Alan Greenspan as the Fed head that he would most like to replicate as his own choice should he become President. Truth is that Greenspan was mightily responsible for the easy money policies that gave raise to the bubbles that have proved so damaging to this country. I suppose Cain thought it might have seemed disloyal to dis Greenspan since that is whom Cain served with when he was on the Federal Reserve Board of Governors.However, I think less of Cain because of his answer.But, YUCK, talk about a clueless debate answer...John McCain said something about keeping Greenspan on even if he was dead and just propping him up a la Weekend at Bernie's. Truth is, John McCain would have been a painful president. Thanks, (kind of) Althouse.

J: Don't think Cain was ever a janitor, but there is nothing wrong with being one should that have been your point. Your betters would agree with me on this. Cain's life is a remarkable story of one achievement after another, a story that you would not want to contrast with your own. He has done quite a lot with his life. You?

It's true that Ron Paul is the intellectual voice behind the Republicans. He discovers their intellectual ideas, and the others slowly pick up on these, and distribute them. He drove the whole argument against the Fed. It's his bag. Cain isn't an idea-man. He's a competent manager, and he tries to communicate clearly.

That Cain is black isn't his fault. He at least has a sense of humor about it. He calls himself "the dark horse in the race."

Huntsman's line didn't do any damage because the cut to Cain showed humor on his face. He can take a joke.

Compare Obama.

Another comparison to Obama would show that Cain is blacker than Obama. Cain has two black parents. Obama has only one, and it isn't even a real American black. It's just a Kenyan.

We're all in a sense African since humanity developed in Africa. But to call yourself African-American means to say that you are the ancestor of slaves. But Cain doesn't whine about it. Ron Paul is always whining. Cain has a can-do attitude.