News:

Good day, denizens of OC.net! Per our tradition, the forum will shut down for Clean Monday, beginning around 9pm Sunday evening (2/18) and ending around 9pm Monday evening (2/19). In the spirit of the coming Forgiveness Sunday, I ask you to forgive me for the sins I have committed against you. At the end of Great and Holy Week, the Forum will also shut down for Holy Friday and Holy Saturday (times TBA).

My wife is about to give birth to our first child, as a gift to her I almost purchased a diamond crucifix but had a second thought.

Can anyone offer any information about the permissibility of a diamond crucifix? Now, I'm not talking about the 10" crucifix worn by many a "bling bling" rapper. I'm talking about a "normal" sized crucifix. Does it have to be diamond? No, but if it is permissible, than I'd like to buy one.

I don't see why it would be a problem. If you do feel uncomfortable about it though, then don't purchase it. However, I don't think there is anything that says diamond crucifixes are out. I pray your wife has a safe delivery. The prayers of the Holy Theotokos and St. Paul the Anchorite be with you.

Logged

Cephas

"But he was wounded for our transgressions, crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the punishment that made us whole, and by his bruises we are healed."-- Isaiah 53:5

I'd say that's a "101"... that is, ask your parish priest. I was told to always wear the cross on the inside of your shirt (not showing), because it was for protection and not for show; so to me it really wouldn't matter much. I don't like necklaces on girls anyway as they draw my attention to the wrong area... but, um, I'm getting off subject. IMO, if your priest says go ahead, and you don't think you'd scandalize some poor old lady who's been scraping to get by for 50 years, then I'd say go for it if that's what you want. It sounds like it would be a nice gift.

First of all congratulation ÃƒÆ’Ã‚ÂÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‚ÂÃƒÆ’Ã‚ÂÃƒâ€¦Ã‚Â¾ÃƒÆ’Ã‚ÂÃƒâ€¦Ã¢â‚¬Å“ÃƒÆ’Ã‚ÂÃƒâ€šÃ‚ÂÃƒÆ’Ã‚ÂÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‚Â¹ÃƒÆ’Ã‚ÂÃƒâ€¹Ã…â€œÃƒÆ’Ã‚ÂÃƒâ€šÃ‚ÂÃƒÆ’Ã‚ÂÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‚Â¢.

May God bless you and your home and may kum do his job and start bying presents.. or just shoot him and get a new one LOL... Well, what can I say, you kept that quiet, or I just missed it... Did not even know you were married... Does she have a sister? LOL

; provided there are no prohibiting monetary concerns I don't see why you shouldn't.

Without naming names, I overheard a "certain woman" I know once say to her eldest daughter:"A lady should never accept an expensive gift from a gentleman who isn't her husband, and she should never accept a gift from her husband that isn't expensive."(I hope she was joking! )

Congrats SS99

« Last Edit: July 09, 2005, 12:57:30 AM by ozgeorge »

Logged

If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.

Can anyone offer any information about the permissibility of a diamond crucifix? Now, I'm not talking about the 10" crucifix worn by many a "bling bling" rapper. I'm talking about a "normal" sized crucifix. Does it have to be diamond? No, but if it is permissible, than I'd like to buy one.

Thanks in advance.

Congrats SS99! I see no reason your wife should not have one. My wife has a cross with a diamond in the centre, and ou priest blessed it. I see no problem whatsoever.Many years!

Thank you and trust me, I ain't no P. Diddy, so I don't plan to break the bank with this purchase because I've got diapers to buy!!!

Koyla,

I'm going to talk to my priest tomorrow, but my sense is that you are right. For whatever reason I started to second guess myself thinking that getting a "diamond" crucifix as opposed to a gold or silver crucifix might somehow be improper. I'm feeling pretty confident my Priest will say it is okay.

In any event, I'll give you all a heads up when the big day arrives. Thanks again everyone.

P.S. -- S-V, not sure I'd let you near my wife's sister (if she had one)... YOU SERBS HAVE BEEN KNOWN TO DRINK... a few!!! LOL

SS99, brother, I suggest a compromise; tell your wife to adopt a sister (you know the attributes the sister should have: rich, can cook, good with the cotton and needles...), and I will become a Slovene because they are so cultured and cooth. LOL

Oh, great, now I'll have the Montenegrins after my tracks. And they all have guns and are waiting for someone to make their day. And that stinks, really, because my priest is Captain Montenegrin, himself!

My wife is a bit of an anamoly. She makes a mean Sarma, Pasulj and of course Cevapi (although I handle the Skara)... all of this and a Masters Degree to boot!!! Oh, and she puts up with me constantly posting here . So she's a keeper!

I'll keep my eyes peeled for any family members (adopted or otherwise) and Julio, you're legit enough for me!

In my opinion I would keep the Cross as a Cross (rememberance as Christ Crucified)....If your wife likes Diamonds then maybe buy her something else with diamonds that she can wear or maybe wear the Crosst together with the diamond neclase or different chains ......

Why I say such a thing(my opinion again)is because when your wife sees one of her friends or whoever it may be, will comment on how Beautiful the Diamond Cross is and take away the Remembrance of why we wear the Cross .....because a Cross is not considered jewelry .

quote///One ought not to look upon the Cross as some kind of jewelry like a bracelet or brooch. The Cross must adorn our soul and not our clothing, and must constantly remind us that we are Orthodox Christians, called to live according to our faith, which is founded on the Savior's sufferings on the Cross.http://www.orthodox.net/redeeming/redeeming.01.22.html

Why I say such a thing(my opinion again)is because when your wife sees one of her friends or whoever it may be, will comment on how Beautiful the Diamond Cross is and take away the Remembrance of why we wear the Cross .....because a Cross is not considered jewelry .

A very fair point indeed, Eleni! Paradosis also mentioned this in his earlier post, and this is certainly something to be kept in mind. The Holy Cross is not for show, like a broche, but rather to be worn at all times, and not over our clothes, for it is not jewelry. It is as remembrance of our belonging to Christ through Baptism. It doesn't seem to me the SouthSerb is planning on an outrageous piece of display, however! And it doesn't appear that jeweling crosses is not wrong per se--otherwise, there would be no jewled crosses in Churches!

My wife is a bit of an anamoly. She makes a mean Sarma, Pasulj and of course Cevapi (although I handle the Skara)... all of this and a Masters Degree to boot!!! Oh, and she puts up with me constantly posting here . So she's a keeper!

Not to mention that she's the mother of your child! And you're truly blessed, brother.

I get back from holiday and see this so I figure it's the best place to start posting again. Congratulations on your impending arrival - I hope you'll let us know all the details and I'll pray for you. Just remember to return the favour in December when my second child's due! Don't worry about the cross. I'm sure it will be perfectly acceptable. My wife wears a jewelled one and nobody's ever suggested it wasn't appropriate - clergy or lay - but the jewel isn't a diamond as my funds at the time didn't go that far. Never mind.

And Julio, you wrote:

Quote

Oh, boy, do I ever! Meanwhile, I'm getting ready to spend a year in Serbia and Montenegro, I wonder if you get some Balkans into someone if you bring them there?

Yes you can get the Balkans into you if you stay long enough but be warned that a Balkan implant is irreversible and will result in conversations (arguments) on the relative merits of various foods and drinks - even though they're all the same thing with different names - not to mentiopn other trivialities relating to national pride. It's happened to me here. Luckily, we all tend to take it light heartedly and it's more friendly ribbing than anything else. Shame we can't settle regional tensions with a big barbecue in the forest somewhere. I'm sure we'd all get along wonderfully.

James

Logged

We owe greater gratitude to those who humble us, wrong us, and douse us with venom, than to those who nurse us with honour and sweet words, or feed us with tasty food and confections, for bile is the best medicine for our soul. - Elder Paisios of Mount Athos

ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€š ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€š Again, thanks to all of you for the wonderful words.ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€š I did speak to my priest yesterday and he echoed a lot of the thoughts here.ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€š Basically he said there was no prohibition to the diamond crucifix, so long as it wasn't being purchased as a "show piece".ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€š Like Eleni said, he reminded me of what the Cross means and why we wear one.ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€š Interestingly, he also reminded me that"precious" stones aren't per se show pieces and talked about the precious stones found in the Crowns during the wedding ceremony.

In a nutshell, he gave me the thumbs up as long as I wasn't intending the cross to be "bling bling" (for lack of a better description).ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€š

Yes you can get the Balkans into you if you stay long enough but be warned that a Balkan implant is irreversible and will result in conversations (arguments) on the relative merits of various foods and drinks - even though they're all the same thing with different names - not to mentiopn other trivialities relating to national pride. It's happened to me here. Luckily, we all tend to take it light heartedly and it's more friendly ribbing than anything else. Shame we can't settle regional tensions with a big barbecue in the forest somewhere. I'm sure we'd all get along wonderfully.

I read this quote and could help but to recall something our Serbian Orthodox brother Cizinec wrote a few weeks ago (regarding his entirely sarcastic reasons for Schism with the OO's);

1. Disagreement on the shape of priests' hats2. Sarma or Haluski? Are they the same?3. Priestly ownership of cats - should it be allowed?4. Disagreements on the location of vestibules in church halls

Now, as you know Cizinec is NOT Serbian, but he is Serbian Orthodox. That "Balkan influence" has led to what James said was "a Balkan implant is irreversible and will result in conversations (arguments) on the relative merits of various foods and drinks - even though they're all the same thing with different names - not to mentiopn other trivialities relating to national pride".

We've got Cizinec ready to debate "Priestly ownership of cats"... although I must admit, #2 is still the all time greatest. My wife is still laughing over that one!!!

Yes you can get the Balkans into you if you stay long enough but be warned that a Balkan implant is irreversible and will result in conversations (arguments) on the relative merits of various foods and drinks - even though they're all the same thing with different names - not to mention other trivialities relating to national pride. It's happened to me here.

Gasp! Someone must've slipped me an implant while I slept!!! I've become quite an articulate spokeman for the (only true) position that feta cheese must be of Serbian (or at the very least Montenegrin) origin, and not Greek, or (the horror!) Turkish. It must be so, for only Serbian and Montenegrin feta cheese is living (like leavened bread, you know!), and not like that weak, pasteurized version of the Real Thing (tm) that some others like to eat (you know, like azymes).

Woo-hoo! We'll soon be enough to make ourselves into a clan, like the Montenegrins have! And then we could build a monastery somewhere, preferably in a place to which one may only arrive after a few hours on the back of a donkey. But that will depend on his answer on the question of sarma vs. haluski. If he insists they're the same thing, we might have to have two separate clans, and a few clan wars.

--Julio

Logged

"This life has been given to you for repentance. Do not waste it in vain pursuits."

Gasp! Someone must've slipped me an implant while I slept!!! I've become quite an articulate spokeman for the (only true) position that feta cheese must be of Serbian (or at the very least Montenegrin) origin, and not Greek, or (the horror!) Turkish. It must be so, for only Serbian and Montenegrin feta cheese is living (like leavened bread, you know!), and not like that weak, pasteurized version of the Real Thing (tm) that some others like to eat (you know, like azymes).ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€š

Feta, Feta? Everyone knows that the real thing is telemea. All these others are blatant rip-offs. And don't even get me started on caÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Â¦Ãƒâ€¦Ã‚Â¸caval (as sin_vladimirov can attest!) Romanian flag waving aside, I was quite serious about how similar we all are when it comes down to it (at least the Orthodox ones). We should all just go out into the woods, set up a nice barbecue and cook mici (or cevapi if you prefer) and drink ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Â¦Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£uica (substitute local name as appropriate). We'd all get along great.

James

Logged

We owe greater gratitude to those who humble us, wrong us, and douse us with venom, than to those who nurse us with honour and sweet words, or feed us with tasty food and confections, for bile is the best medicine for our soul. - Elder Paisios of Mount Athos

I beg you pardon James, everyone knows that it was Serbs with a funny accent (what we know today as Romanians) that sometimes in a XIV century stole the cheese from the All Serbian Cheese Keeper by the name Sirac Kachkavalyevich and crossed the Danube because they got cursed by the mother of Sirac Kachkavalyevich. Now, her name was FETANIYA KACHKAVALYEVICH. She soon after died from sorrow. So, before you start saying utter heresy, I would suggest you read the Canon XXII of the Ecucheesical Council in Donja Sirnica in AD 1234 which states:

All-wise uncles of the Cheesemaking society of Serbia and all Serbian Lands* have decided that all white (as opposed to heretical yellow cheeses of the Latin world) cheeses are to be placed into protection of the family Kachkavalyevich and all cheesy aunt Sirnica Kachkavalyevich (the great great small great mother of Fetaniya) and shall remain under family guard for-ever.

Now you Romanian Serbs have broken this ancient Canon with Epitomes that gives out Anathemas.

Gasp! Someone must've slipped me an implant while I slept!!! I've become quite an articulate spokeman for the (only true) position that feta cheese must be of Serbian (or at the very least Montenegrin) origin, and not Greek, or (the horror!) Turkish. It must be so, for only Serbian and Montenegrin feta cheese is living (like leavened bread, you know!), and not like that weak, pasteurized version of the Real Thing (tm) that some others like to eat (you know, like azymes).ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€š

Julio,

I was once nearly disavowed from my people when I publically stated (here) that I prefer Bulgarian Feta over Serbian (I'm now cringing at the reaction).

It is a shame our good friend Cizinec is being over-worked at this new job, such that he can't enjoy such elevated and refined dialogue .

James,

I'm going to have to agree with S-V on this one. I would also like to turn you attention to Canon XX-WWE (formerly WWF), wherein it states:

"It is hereby agreed by all Orthodox nations that Cheeseland will heretofore be referred as "Serbia", derived from Servia, derived from Servija, derived from Serve-Ya, derived from "what kind of cascaval could I serve ya". The lineage was quite clear.

In fact, I think this was recently repeated by His Holines Teoctist at Pascha. Sorry, but dem da breaks!

Sorry, but I must protest and use the usual Balkan chant of 'We were here first'. To accept that you Slavonic interlopers could have brought any worthwhile cheeses to the Balkans would be enough to make Burebista, Decebal and all their descendants spin in their graves. Clearly you were wholly cheeseless befor encountering the noble shepherds and farmers of the Daco-Roman Balkans! ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€š

James

Logged

We owe greater gratitude to those who humble us, wrong us, and douse us with venom, than to those who nurse us with honour and sweet words, or feed us with tasty food and confections, for bile is the best medicine for our soul. - Elder Paisios of Mount Athos

Belgrade, Huge demonstrations have been staged in the Cheese capital of the universe. The BBC (British Broadcasters of Cheese) is reporting that latest statement of King of Romanian Separatists James III in which he danied the rights of Serbia (State ecucheesical radical balkanic international association) on cheese ownership has fueled angry protest in Belgrade (picture supplied).

Border of Serbia and Northeastern Serbia,The situation is tense. There were sporadic exchanges of course language accross the border. Early this morning two drunk Romanians have been caught while trying to sell illegal cheese on the markets in Negotin. They were executed by being married into Greek families.

New York Sock Exchange,The price of an ounce of cheese has hit the record high. This morning one ounce was selling for 145.24 USD.

UN HQ,The UNESCO (Unated Nation Ecucheesical Special Cheese Organisation) has begged the world to put pressure onto Serbia because un-acceptable situation in regard to world suplly of cheese.

Belgrade, Huge demonstrations have been staged in the Cheese capital of the universe. The BBC (British Broadcasters of Cheese) is reporting that latest statement of King of Romanian Separatists James III in which he danied the rights of Serbia (State ecucheesical radical balkanic international association) on cheese ownership has fueled angry protest in Belgrade (picture supplied).

Border of Serbia and Northeastern Serbia,The situation is tense. There were sporadic exchanges of course language accross the border. Early this morning two drunk Romanians have been caught while trying to sell illegal cheese on the markets in Negotin. They were executed by being married into Greek families.

New York Sock Exchange,The price of an ounce of cheese has hit the record high. This morning one ounce was selling for 145.24 USD.

UN HQ,The UNESCO (Unated Nation Ecucheesical Special Cheese Organisation) has begged the world to put pressure onto Serbia because un-acceptable situation in regard to world suplly of cheese.

SV,

I'm dying right now... I'm going to lose my job I'm laughing so hard!!! Since when has Belgrade's population turned about 99% Asian??

I beg you pardon James, everyone knows that it was Serbs with a funny accent (what we know today as Romanians) that sometimes in a XIV century stole the cheese from the All Serbian Cheese Keeper by the name Sirac KachkavalyevichÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€š and crossed the Danube because they got cursed by the mother of Sirac Kachkavalyevich. Now, her name was FETANIYA KACHKAVALYEVICH. She soon after died from sorrow. So, before you start saying utter heresy, I would suggest you read the Canon XXII of the Ecucheesical Council in Donja Sirnica in AD 1234 which states:

All-wise uncles of the Cheesemaking society of Serbia and all Serbian Lands* have decided that all white (as opposed to heretical yellow cheeses of the Latin world) cheeses are to be placed into protection of the family Kachkavalyevich and all cheesy aunt Sirnica Kachkavalyevich (the great great small great mother of Fetaniya) and shall remain under family guard for-ever.

Now you Romanian Serbs have broken this ancient Canon with Epitomes that gives out Anathemas.

James, my brothers have taken great pains to show you the blatant error of your cheesological heresy from historical, geographical, sociological, theological and canonical perspectives. Will you obstinately persevere in untruth?!

It would do you a world of good to inform yourself a little better--perhaps you could hear our greatest cheese national epic, composed by our national Cheese Head Bard, Weird Al Yankovic?

Meanwhile, brothers, thank you for so quickly and ably defending the truth! Thanks also for quoting the pertinent canons; I had never even seen them in English before!

I must confess, yes I do LOVE Bulgarian Feta, Russian Vodka, Polish Sausage and Greek Taramosalata!!!ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€š *Deep sigh*...Alas, I fear now I will be outcast amongst my own.ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€š (wiping away a tear)ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€š

Okay, it is not a problem to enjoy these inferior froms of everything, just as long as you realize that they are substandard. You tear of repentance and your defense of cheese truth here today are all the proof I need, Brat YugoSrpksi!

Again, thanks to all of you for the wonderful words. I did speak to my priest yesterday and he echoed a lot of the thoughts here. Basically he said there was no prohibition to the diamond crucifix, so long as it wasn't being purchased as a "show piece". Like Eleni said, he reminded me of what the Cross means and why we wear one. Interestingly, he also reminded me that"precious" stones aren't per se show pieces and talked about the precious stones found in the Crowns during the wedding ceremony.

In a nutshell, he gave me the thumbs up as long as I wasn't intending the cross to be "bling bling" (for lack of a better description).

I'll keep you all informed!!!

Hi Southserb!

Congrats on your soon to be bundle of joy! I will keep you and your family in my prayers. I think the cross is a beautiful gift, I'm sure your wife will treasure it! I'm still stunned by the fact that there is a Serb in this world who doesn't want *bling bling*. The Serbs I grew up with didn't leave the house with less than 5 lbs of gold and sparkle. It was the Serbs that orignated "OG" (Over Gold)

Now, as you know Cizinec is NOT Serbian, but he is Serbian Orthodox. That "Balkan influence" has led to what James said was "a Balkan implant is irreversible and will result in conversations (arguments) on the relative merits of various foods and drinks - even though they're all the same thing with different names - not to mentiopn other trivialities relating to national pride".

The "Balkan Influence" also leads to drinking slivo, singing songs and pounding your glass on the table until it breaks.

I have only two questions to ask. Where were your forefathers when Decebal fought Trajan? Better yet, where were they when the great Burebista opposed Dacia to Julius Caesar's Roman expansion? Weren't they somewhere east of Scythia on the steppes? If they had any cheese at all, I submit that it was made from mare's milk. How, then, can you accuse the civilised Dacian people (who everyone knows founded the great civilisations of Mesopotamia and through them all that is good in the world) of stealing the great and glorious cheeses of the Balkans from your barbarian ancestors? No, it is clearly you latecomers who stole them from us, probably while the Vlach Tsars were ruling Bulgaria. This is nothing but a betrayal against your rightful emperors!

James

P.S.Weird as it may seem, I didn't make up the Mesopotamia nonsense. There really are some crackpots that think Romania is the birthplace of civilisation. This is nearly as bad revisionist history as that you supplied as justification for your blatant cheese theft.

Logged

We owe greater gratitude to those who humble us, wrong us, and douse us with venom, than to those who nurse us with honour and sweet words, or feed us with tasty food and confections, for bile is the best medicine for our soul. - Elder Paisios of Mount Athos

Congrats on your soon to be bundle of joy! I will keep you and your family in my prayers. I think the cross is a beautiful gift, I'm sure your wife will treasure it! I'm still stunned by the fact that there is a Serb in this world who doesn't want *bling bling*.ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€š The Serbs I grew up with didn't leave the house with less than 5 lbs of gold and sparkle. It was the Serbs that orignated "OG" (Over Gold)ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€š ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€š

The "Balkan Influence" also leads to drinking slivo, singing songs and pounding your glass on the table until it breaks.

Hey PhosZoe,

Thank you for the prayers. Yes, our bundle of joy could come at any time now. We are very excited.

OG - "Over Gold" - LOL . Yes, I've seen those Serbs too.

With regards to the "Balkan Influence", you forgot to mention drinking *too much* slivo and then telling stories about how they fought in WWII, even though they were born in 1951.

If they had any cheese at all, I submit that it was made from mare's milk.

Dems fighting words!! I board my plane for England tomorrow. I shall meet you under Big Ben at 6pm, the two gentlement next to me will be S-V and Julio (and I'm still hoping on Cizinec). If need be, I will resort to physical force to renounce such heresy!

Dems fighting words!!ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€š I board my plane for England tomorrow.ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€š I shall meet you under Big Ben at 6pm, the two gentlement next to me will be S-V and Julio (and I'm still hoping on Cizinec).ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€š If need be, I will resort to physical force to renounce such heresy!

Do you mean under Westminster Clock Tower, or directly underneath the bell? I'm afraid I shan't be able to make it as I live several hundred miles away. If you could, however, make it to Leeds I could perhaps oblige you. Is it OK to bring some local Romanian 'recruits'? I shouldn't think we'll need to ressort to force, though. I suggest we just bring several bottles of tuica and drink in the unnaturally beautiful weather we are having at the moment until we all forget what it was we were arguing about. Feel free to slam glasses down hard enough to break them if it makes you feel better.

James

Logged

We owe greater gratitude to those who humble us, wrong us, and douse us with venom, than to those who nurse us with honour and sweet words, or feed us with tasty food and confections, for bile is the best medicine for our soul. - Elder Paisios of Mount Athos

We will come and find you in Leeds, buster! You can bring as many Northeastern Serbs (i. e., Serbs with a funny accent, so-called Romanians) as you wish; it will not make any difference. The three (or four) of us can take you, as we are on the side of truth. And you can forget about sitting down to drink until after we have beaten your cheesological heresy out of you! Then I assure you that you will have forgotten what were you arguing about.ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€š

This upcoming battle is the stuff of epic poems. Maybe our National Cheese Head Bard, Weird Al YankoviÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¾ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‚Â¡, will write an epic about our glorious spoils that will live for eternity!

« Last Edit: July 12, 2005, 10:51:15 AM by Julio »

Logged

"This life has been given to you for repentance. Do not waste it in vain pursuits."