Featured Listings

When it’s time to find a great new employee, share your job opening with the Mac’s List community. We’ll introduce you to more than 80,000 of the Pacific Northwest’s most educated, experienced, and passionate professionals.

Practice your handshake, because your next great hire is here!

OUR HIRING SERVICES

Job Postings

30-day run on Mac’s List, a spot in our new jobs email and post metrics.

Treat Your Career as if You’re an Entrepreneur, with Michelle Ward

Share

Transcript

Mac Prichard:

This is Find Your Dream Job, the podcast that helps you get hired, have the career you want and make a difference in life. I’m Mac Prichard, your host and publisher of Mac’s List. I’m joined by my co-host Ben Forstag, our managing director and Jenna Forstrom, our community manager. This week we’re talking about how to treat your career as if you’re an entrepreneur. Our show is brought to you by Hack the Hidden Job Market, the new online course from Mac’s List that starts November 1st. As many as eight out of ten jobs never get advertised, is your dream job one of them? Learn how to uncover hidden jobs and get noticed by the hiring managers who fill them. Visit macslist.org/course.

When you’ve accepted a new job, have you ever said to yourself, “Thank goodness I don’t need to think about job hunting again for a long, long time.” The odds are good that you’ll return to the job market again soon. Data from the federal government says that typical American changes jobs about every four years. That doesn’t mean that your job search never ends but you do need to think about how you manage your career for the long haul. This week’s guest expert, Michelle Ward says you should treat your career as if you’re an entrepreneur. She explains why and how to do it later in the show. We spend more time online with our smartphones than ever before.

In response, employers now use apps to find workers. In a moment, Ben Forstag will tell us how to use your phone to discover and apply for your next job. How do you know if it’s time to leave your industry for a new sector? How do you make that change? That’s the question this week from veteran broadcaster Matt Cundill. Jenna Forstrom shares her advice in a moment. As always, let’s check in with the Mac’s List team. Jenna, Ben, how are you two this week?

Ben Forstag:

Doing great.

Jenna Forstrom:

I’m doing awesome.

Mac Prichard:

Okay, big shout out to Jenna who had a birthday this weekend. I don’t know if we’re allowed to mention the number of years, perhaps not.

Jenna Forstrom:

I’ve joined the 30 year old birthday club next decade.

Mac Prichard:

Okay.

Jenna Forstrom:

Bring it.

Mac Prichard:

Congrats. You had a wonderful birthday weekend?

Jenna Forstrom:

I did, it was great.

Mac Prichard:

Terrific. This week we’re talking about careers and why people should treat their careers as if they are an entrepreneur. I’m curious, when did you two realized that in order to get ahead professionally you had to think about more than just answering job ads, you had to think about your career for the long haul.

Ben Forstag:

Probably after about four months of unsuccessfully just applying for jobs I found online. I guess I’ve been lucky in my career in the sense that I’ve always gone from job to job relatively smoothly without ever having a big prolonged period of unemployment until right before I started Mac’s List. I was unemployed for about six months and the first four months of that was I’m applying to jobs that I found online that I actually found on Mac’s List, Mac. It took me four months of utility and being frustrated before I realized there’s got to be a better way to do this. I went back to the starting line and looked at how to network and build that networks and connect with folks. Shortly after I took that new approach, good things started happening.

Mac Prichard:

How about you, Jenna?

Jenna Forstrom:

I grew up, my dad works at Nike so I grew up always hearing that no one ever gets a job from job boards, like Nike only hires people that they know and that was just like a known fact in Beaverton, Oregon. When I went away to college and went to Boston and everyone was like, “Be on LinkedIn and applying for jobs in Monster and Indeed,” and I tried that after college. Sure my 2008 college resume is like forever on the internet somewhere and just never heard back Complete Crickets and then moved back to Portland and one of my friends turn me onto Mac’s List and at least when you apply you hear back yes or no or there’s a little bit more follow up because it’s real people and stuff like that but I think just again most people I know don’t get a job from a job order that’s from someone they know through networking or a neighbor’s friend is hiring and they are playing golf or checking out a barbecue or getting the mail and they are like, “Oh yeah, you’d be great for this.”

Mac Prichard:

Yeah, you definitely need to do both, job boards can help and we’re very proud of our job board at Mac’s List but we always encourage people to get out and network and not only to think about your next job but think about your career for the long haul. Like you Ben, I think I saw the light about career management in my mid 20’s when I went through a long period of unemployment. It was about seven, eight months but before then I got three great jobs right in a row and I just thought, “This is easy to find work.” When I had that spell of unemployment, it not only helped me become a better job hunter but it helped me think about what I needed to do in my career professionally both in terms of getting out and networking with people and eventually getting a graduate degree and other stuffs.

Ben Forstag:

One, I think it’s interesting that the story that you and I and Jenna all shared I think this is indicative of most people which is you don’t learn what works until you learn what doesn’t work often, right? Almost every job seeker I talked to, they spent a lot of time doing the online job board thing exclusively and it’s a learning process to figure out what works and it’s not a natural thing for most folks but you can figure out how to do the networking game and land a good job.

Mac Prichard:

Yeah, those are all skills that you can master and we talked a lot about that on the show and in our blog and book and now in our upcoming course too. Let’s turn to you, Ben and you’re out there every week exploring the internet looking for the websites, books and tools people can use to get ahead in their job search and career. What have you found this week?

Ben Forstag:

This week I want to talk about web app called switchapp.com which is a very quick and easy way to see what jobs are out there. Now, Mac, are you with the web app Tinder?

Mac Prichard:

I’ve heard of it. Kris and I just had our 30th wedding anniversary last year so I had not been in the Tinder pool for … I never was actually, it didn’t exist.

Ben Forstag:

Yeah, I got married before Tinder came around too so I never actually used it but you’re familiar with it. It’s basically like a dating app and they just show you a picture of the person with some very minimal info and you swipe left if you like the person and right if you don’t.

Jenna Forstrom:

I think left if you don’t like them and right if you do like them.

Ben Forstag:

Okay, the persecution of lefties continues. Okay, this app is essentially a Tinder but for your job search. You download the app, you enter your location and your industry and the years of experience and then based off of job descriptions that are out there it presents you a very high level list of jobs and you do the right left swiping depending on whether you like the job or not. Now, I’d be honest I don’t know quite how effective this is. I played around with it a little bit and it’s a good way of matching you up with a job but it certainly you’re not going to get the job by swiping your finger one direction or the other.

I think it’s mostly a way of getting a sense of opportunities that are publicly advertised and whether they line up with the kind of your general interest. There’s probably a lot of leg work you have to do on the back end to go from that, “I’m interested in this job,” to actually get the job. It’s a nice, cool little app and it’s a fun way to spend ten minutes just seeing what’s out there. I will also say that this seems to be mostly focused on New York City and San Francisco where there’s a lot of tech jobs. I typed in Portland and there’s a handful of jobs but not like the big mass that you see in those tech heavy markets but cool app, definitely check it out especially if you’re in New York or San Francisco.

Mac Prichard:

Okay, we have a national audience so results may vary depending on your community and so even if you’re not in New York or San Francisco, you might give it a try.

Ben Forstag:

Yeah, definitely. I didn’t check out every market, the states but I think if you go there you’ll probably find at least a dozen jobs to look through. The way these things work typically the longer the app has been out, the more jobs will show up so if you come back in a month there might be two or three times as many jobs as there are today.

Mac Prichard:

Terrific. Thanks, Ben. If you’ve got a suggestion for Ben, you can write them and we may share your idea on the show. His address is ben@macslist.org. Now, let’s turn to you our listeners, Jenna Forstrom, our community manager is here and she joins us to answer one of your questions. Jenna, what’s in the Mac’s List mailbag this week?

Jenna Forstrom:

Today we have a voicemail from Matt Cundill.

Matt Cundill:

Hi, Mac. My name is Matt Cundill and I’m from Winnipeg, Canada. Two years ago I was restructured out of my job as a program director at a large radio corporation. I had about nine months worth of severance and in that time I took about six to myself and then I started to look for work and what I found out was they are not hiring for my position in a lot of places across the country. I went into consulting and I did that for about a year and had some marginal results. Two great clients but they turned over rather quickly at about eight, nine months. I picked up voice over to supplement my income and I’ve done very well with that. I’m thinking about expanding that part of my business. I also got into podcasting with the Sound Off Podcast.

Knowing that I have all these great tools to be a great broadcaster so I can now be a podcaster. At this point, I think I’m saying goodbye to radio. I’ve applied to about 50, 60 jobs and I’m making many of the same mistakes your listeners are making and that’s looking at job boards and then applying. What else can I do to jump start my way into a new business that’s probably looking at me with a lot of radio experience but it doesn’t necessarily apply to what their business is all about. I’ve also considered moving to new cities but it’s the same problem, it’s not going to pay as much and the cost of living elsewhere is more expensive. Thanks a lot, Mac and your team is great, the podcast is great. Keep up the good work.

Jenna Forstrom:

Hey, Matt. Thanks for your question. We really appreciate you calling in. My response was we talked a lot about this at Mac’s List about transferable skills so you are in radio and communications so you obviously have really strong oral skills which is really good for presentations and meeting management but then also I’m assuming you have really good writing skills too because I work on a podcast and he runs a podcast. I know he’s obviously got some great project management experience and listening skills because you’re always talking to people and you have to be on the fly and be actively listening.

I think all those skill sets are really great things that any growing organization would be interested in. As long as you’re promoting the work that you’re doing so like while I was laid off or while I was unemployed I started a podcast and I learned audio engineering. That shows curiosity and this natural ability to grow and continue learning and then just talk about that in your resume on LinkedIn, in your cover letter with the hiring managers. Mac and Ben, do you guys have any other tips?

Ben Forstag:

I think a couple of things. You hit on one which is you always want to show that you’re staying up to date and relevant with the technology and new trends. Certainly when it comes to audio or radio, podcasting is the hot new thing. Being able to transition from that broadcast format to the podcast format is a skill and a value that I think a lot of employers would really find valuable. The other thing that I think you could think about here in terms of transferable skills is that you’ve got this huge wealth of information and knowledge about how broadcasting works.

There are so many organizations out there that they may not be broadcasters themselves or in the media but they are desperate to get the media’s attention for their own internal stories whether it’s press releases or getting favorable coverage otherwise and being able to go into those organizations and say, “I have all this context in the broadcast media. I know how the media works. I know how they think. Hire me and I can help get your story out there to a larger audience through the media.” Those are two different options I would think about.

Jenna Forstrom:

Yeah, those are great.

Mac Prichard:

Yeah, those are great suggestions from both of you. I think you nailed it Jenna with your focus on the transferable skills and Ben, I like your point about the value that Matt brings with his media relationships because I run a public relations company in addition to Mac’s List. I’ve worked in media relations for a long time. As our listeners know and Matt certainly does, a lot of big changes in the media business in the last 20 years I’ve seen many reporters, producers, on air personalities make a change out of broadcasting into public information officer roles, sometimes with hospitals, sometimes with public agencies or elected officials. They get hired because they have those transferable skills that Jenna was talking about as well as those context that you mentioned.

There’s another advantage Matt has here is increasingly organizations are making their own media and people who know how to do that not just who know how to create podcast or run blogs, that has a lot of value to employers. I think Matt’s challenge is he needs to decide if he wants to continue to look for in-house job and if he does, I would position himself as somebody with great media context and who knows how to create media or if he wants to go into business for himself and get hired to create media as a contractor. He may end up, it might be ideally an ideal thing for him to do both and get a day job and always keep a few clients on the side as a side project that could grow into a full time business eventually.

Ben Forstag:

Yeah, I mean I think that’s dead on and nowadays, original content is so valuable and every organization is doing the content marketing thing. People can come in whether you’re a good writer or a good audio producer or you can do videos, any skill like that is hugely sought after.

Mac Prichard:

Great. Thank you, Jenna and Ben and thank you Matt for your question. If you have a question for us, please email Jenna, her address is jenna@macslist.org. You can call our listener line and that number is area code 716-JOB-TALK, that’s 716-JOB-TALK. The segments with Ben and Jenna are sponsored by Hack the Hidden Job Market. It’s the new online course for Mac’s List. As many as 80% of old jobs never get posted, instead employers fill these openings by word of mouth. Our new course showed you how this hidden job market works. We’ll teach you how to find plum gigs that never appear on the job board, how to stand out in a crowd of applicants and how to connect with insiders who can help your career. Each of the course is 12 modules. You get the tools and tips you need to get the work you want.

Meaningful work, work that makes a difference, work that you can love. Hack the Hidden Job Market launches November 1st. Don’t wait, get updates and lock in the early bird price now. Go to macslist.org/course. Now, let’s turn to this week’s guest expert, Michelle Ward. Michelle Ward has been offering career guidance for creative women as the When I Grow Up Coach since 2008. She’s the co-author of The Declaration of You which is published by North Light Books. Michelle also teaches a class, Create Your Dream Career and Ditch Your Day Job on creativelive.com. She joins us today from Montclair, New Jersey. Michelle, thanks for coming on the show.

Michelle Ward:

Yes, thank you so much for having me, I’m so happy to be here.

Mac Prichard:

It’s a pleasure to have you. Today we’re talking about our careers and why we should think like an entrepreneur when we think about both our jobs and our careers. Candidly, Michelle I think a lot of people, and I certainly had this thought at different points of my career, I think once I landed a job, “Gosh that’s great, I don’t need to think about job hunting or my career for a while.” Tell us, Michelle, why isn’t that a good idea?

Michelle Ward:

Oh my goodness, so many reasons. I think, A, it’s certainly not a help for you when it’s time for your performance review which we all have in more corporate traditional job setting, usually at least once a year. I know in my experience I worked as an executive assistant for a financial consulting company while I was in school to be a life coach and worked my way to becoming the When I Grow Up Coach full time. It was always a panic when it was review time. You would think about examples of things that you wanted to write about of what you did well, what’s working and maybe not working so well for you in your job and you have a whole year worth of material to look at. Unless you are keeping track of what is working for you at work, what you’re being complimented on, the wins that you have as well as what’s not working, as well as what might not be aligned to either your biggest purpose or the skill set that you enjoy using at work then you can’t really get yourself on the driver seat of your career.

You can’t really keep yourself on track or maybe I’ve had clients do this, maybe have your job shift your responsibilities into things that you want to do. Of course, I would think that it goes without saying and I’ve seen this a whole lot of times also that when it is time to go get a new job you have this resume that is very old and very dusty and to create it from the ground up or from however long it’s been since you went to look for your last job is really daunting. If you have your eye on this, if you update your resume maybe once or twice a year even if you’re happy in your job at least you have something current and you’re able to really put your best foot forward both with the job you have and maybe one that you want down the line.

Mac Prichard:

Michelle, what are some of your best tips for how to keep track of your progress, your accomplishments, your wins whether it’s for that annual review or just that semi-annual tune up of your resume?

Michelle Ward:

I like to call this tool a win book but I’m a hippy dippy life coachy person and that makes me happy. If you know, if anyone is rolling their eyes you could call it your accomplishment book or your career book or anything that you want to call it that makes you feel good about taking it out and writing in it. For me when I was back at that job I would have a folder in my Outlook that was called like good things, your compliments or something. Whenever I would get a compliment either from someone else or even to myself, I’d write myself a quick email saying, “I think I did a good job with such and such,” or, “I felt really good about this presentation that I gave,” or maybe I want to start a book club for people in my office that want time management techniques.

I would put it in that folder and then that would be the place that I would go when it was time to fill out my performance review. I would say now I do this on Evernote which is really easy to just highlight things online and then put it in a folder on Evernote. I’ve had people do this by hand or people just create folders and just fill out a Word document on their computer. It kind of doesn’t matter the format that it’s in, what matters is that it’s easy for you and you will continuously add to it and be able to easily review it and remember it. Just don’t write things down on lots of different scraps of paper and have them everywhere, that’s not going to be helpful.

Mac Prichard:

Have one place that might be an old fashioned Manila folder in a drawer but it could be an Evernote file or something online but put everything in one place don’t scatter it.

Michelle Ward:

Yes, yes, absolutely. Just the key is really about external compliments and internal things that made you proud when it came to your job. They’re just as important how you feel about the work that you’re doing is just as important as the external validation and compliments that you receive.

Mac Prichard:

Some of the other advice I’ve seen you give online is about the importance of having an online presence. Not just having your LinkedIn page in good order but actually sharing your interest and writing about things you care about. Tell us the advantages of that and how we can help people with their career.

Michelle Ward:

I think it’s two fold. I think number one, it establishes you as an expert in whatever you want to be known to be doing. For some people that’s very directly related to the work that they’re doing and for other sometimes it’s not. This is especially important if you’re looking for a career transition but you don’t necessarily have professional experience in that field then that’s really helpful. I can give you an example from a former client of mine who started her own Etsy shop when she was doing government work. What wind up happening was after a few years she put the Etsy shop on her resume, did not hide the fact that she have this Etsy shop. She made X amount of sales every year and she went to shows and fairs and sold her stuff and sold it online.

She wind up having a marketing job that was really much more aligned with the things that she wanted to be working on because she was able to harness the fact that she have this personal project and this presence that she was able to make X amount sales every year in order to get a job that was more aligned with the things that she wanted to be doing. That was really interesting even though she didn’t have a marketing background or a degree or anything like that. Her own personal project landed her the job that she wanted and then I think the other side of things and really being very upfront about your own work and having that presence online is that if you wind up I think in the best environment for you.

I have been surprised in having the realization that a lot of my clients most of them, I don’t want to say it doesn’t matter what they do at work because obviously it does matter. What often matters just as much if not more is the environment that they’re in, that’s been really interesting to me. When you’re able to be upfront and say, “Here’s my blog,” or, “Here’s my shop,” or, “Here is the impromptu comedy that I do on weekends,” or whatever. You’re bringing your whole self into the room and I think the kind of companies that really appreciate that and are responsive to it are the ones that are the better environments and where you’re going to be more likely to feel more authentic and at ease and comfortable in that setting with those people because they’re accepting all of you when you walk in the door for that interview.

Mac Prichard:

Now I know in addition to sharing your personal interest outside of the workplace, you’re also a big believer in having a personal elevated pitch. Tell us more that’s important, Michelle, and what’s your advice about how to put one together?

Michelle Ward:

Yeah, I think it’s important because it’s a way for you to differentiate yourself and again I think this is important even if you’re not actively looking for work. It’s really the difference between saying, “I’m an accountant,” and, “I’m an accountant who specializes in working with small business owners to help them get the most tax benefits.” A, is somewhat, “Oh okay, I’m an accountant. Great, all right,” B. I immediately go, “Oh, I could use help with that,” or, “I think of other people that I know who have asked me about that,” or, “Oh, I know someone who have their own small business,” or, “Oh, this person just moved to the area and probably needs help with their taxes.”

It allows me to make connections that I didn’t make before and again even if you’re not actively looking for work, having the light bulb go off in someone’s mind when they hear about what you do and be able to make that connection, that’s nothing but a win – win situation. Really I think it could be as simple as the title of what you do, I’m a blank who works with blank or who specializes in blank or who wants to focus on blank. If you are actively looking for work that’s a really great way to say, “Oh, I’m a social media manager who’s looking to work with small businesses with a mission.” That’s going to be able again to put the light bulb on in the other person’s head and think, “Oh, how could I make that connection?” and really differentiates you from the rest of the accountants out there.

Mac Prichard:

One of the great reasons to have an elevated pitch besides those you laid out is when you go to events or conferences. Why should people go to conferences or other events, Michelle? How can it help their career?

Michelle Ward:

Again, I think it’s about connections and I think that if you are going to conferences that you legitimately want to be at, right? That’s not just a sole networking kind of experience that you’re dragging your feet and you’re there because you have to be there because your boss wants you to be there. You find the conferences and now there are so many, if you find the conferences that really mesh well with either what you do at work or what you want to be doing.

I know a lot of people who have sold their managers on conferences that they want to attend even if it’s not directly related to the work they want to be doing because they’re able to say, “This is what I want to learn about.” If you really focus on the learning experience then again the networking and the connection piece and maybe being able to find more clients or get a different job is going to be a side effect of that. That all leads up to feeling authentic in your work and enjoying what you do and feeling valuable in what you’re giving others.

Mac Prichard:

Good and I also know that you think people should have a personal business card rather than just for their firm. Tell us more about that.

Michelle Ward:

Yeah, I think this especially goes for anyone actively looking for work and anyone who, I don’t know maybe feels a bit more disconnected with their job. If you love your job, if you know you’re probably going to be there forever pass out those professional business cards with your company’s information. I think there’s something just really empowering especially if you have your own website and you’re working on your own blog or you have your own creative project. It doesn’t have to be anything fancy, you could go to vistaprint.com, you could go to moo.com.

You could find a template that you really like and just plug in your name, maybe your title, how you want people to see you along with your own blog or project or website. That is just your name, your portfolio, some of your work, here is how you could contact me and that could be it. There’s something there that then allows you to personally connect with someone as opposed to rerouting them through your work email and shutting them out from that extra curricular work that you do and the way that you might want to get to know them.

Mac Prichard:

Terrific. What else would you like to add, Michelle?

Michelle Ward:

I think just with that making sure that you have that personal website now that it kind of came up I went, “Oh yeah,” like, “Go have a personal website.” Even if it’s something that’s a one page that’s more of, “Here is my picture. Here is my own personal mission statement and the work that I enjoy doing. Here is where you could find me online. I love taking pictures, here is my Instagram account. Contact me about XYZ.” There’s a two wonderful sites one called about.me and one that’s called branded.me that’s makes it really easy. Go and do that for yourself and see kind of where it takes you and go get those business cards and don’t be afraid to put your whole self forward when it comes to your work and your career.

Mac Prichard:

That’s a great advice and I certainly see the job seekers, the people who are successful not only getting their next position but in having a career they find rewarding, they played to all their interest. Work isn’t just something that happens between nine to five and they’re not afraid to share their personal interest as well.

Michelle Ward:

Yes, absolutely. I like to say that the simplification of the work that I do is to allow my clients to wake up in the morning, think of the day that they have ahead of them and know that they’re looking forward to at least 70% of it. I really feel that that’s about the work that you get to do, the people you get to work with and really feeling as authentic as possible during the day that you’re not wearing these different masks or wearing these different hats. Again, putting your whole self out there not being afraid to share your personal projects you’re going to be able to find that environment, you’re going to be able to find those people.

You’re going to be able to lead with the skill set that you want to be using as opposed to one that maybe you’ve honed and really perfected through the years but you don’t enjoy using at all. We’re looking for that the other side of the coin there instead of just, “Oh, let’s make a money off these things that I’ve done that I don’t like anymore and I dread my work,” that’s never the goal.

Mac Prichard:

Coincidentally we’re recording this on a Monday and I was looking forward to coming to work today and that’s your word too.

Michelle Ward:

Yes, always and often I love and hate to admit it, I don’t even know what day it is, you know what I mean. I go, “Oh, is it Thursday? Is it Monday?” I don’t know and that’s a wonderful feeling that I’m not counting down to the weekend or I’m not leaving for that 5:00 o’clock bell and everything just feels a lot more seamless in my life which is so nice, so nice.

Mac Prichard:

Yeah, I think that’s something we should all strive for.

Michelle Ward:

Absolutely.

Mac Prichard:

Michelle, tell us what’s coming up next for you.

Michelle Ward:

What’s coming up next is a program called 90 Day Business Launch where a colleague of mine her name is Larson. She and I worked together with just ten women to help you craft your 90 day business launch plan. We do that customized for everyone and that will be launching at the end of October but everyone could go to whenigrowupcoach.com, sign up for my list. I do a monthly live interview series that I love for you to check out and you could find my Facebook on there and my Twitter and everywhere I am online. I’d love for you to look around and contact me with any questions or thoughts, I’m always on the other side of an email.

Mac Prichard:

Great and we’ll include links to all of those sites in our show notes and as well as to your main site which I think you already mentioned whenigrowupcoach.com. Michelle, thanks for being on the show.

Michelle Ward:

Thank you so much.

Mac Prichard:

All right, we’re back in the Mac’s List studio. Jenna, Ben, I’m curious what were some key points you heard Michelle make.

Ben Forstag:

One thing that Michelle said that I thought was really interesting is that the whole idea that job searching is not like a discreet part of your career. It’s the skills you develop in job searching are really the same things that contributes to your success once you’re in the job. This idea that you’re kind of constantly being vigilant in your job search and keeping your professional resume and your accomplishments well documented. This is not just about finding the next job, it’s about doing the job that you have right now well and I think that’s something that gets ignored a lot when we talk about conversations about job search. Finding a job and doing a job are often two sides of the same coin.

Mac Prichard:

How about you, Jenna?

Jenna Forstrom:

I really liked her how she just talked holistically about to find joy and happiness in your job. You want to work at a place where people can love and respect you for the things you do outside of work as well. If I come here and I talk about volunteering with the homeless all the time and I feel like if that drove you guys crazy it would be like such a painful aspect of it. Since I know you guys support me in what I do outside of Mac’s List, it’s really easy to talk about those things in the same way that Mac talks about Joan Crawford movies. I am learning to know who this woman is and who Mac hangs out with watching movies with and then Ben talks about his kids all the time. If that was painful he wouldn’t have to be able to talk about them all the time but he does.

Ben Forstag:

Mac, you’re hanging out at movies with Joan Crawford nowadays?

Jenna Forstrom:

Is that it?

Mac Prichard:

No.

Jenna Forstrom:

I’m learning.

Mac Prichard:

I’m a big fan of Joan Crawford and other film stars from the 1930’s and 40’s. It’s been a big summer for me because there has been 18 movies in the Joan and Bette Davis Film Festival here in Portland which ended on Sunday with Whatever Happened to Baby Jane. I know it’s like speaking in code for anybody under 60 but it’s a lot of fun and I appreciate you guys putting up with my anecdotes.

Jenna Forstrom:

This is a safe place to talk about it.

Mac Prichard:

It is, indeed and when I think about Michelle and the interview with her today, what I loved is when she said, “If you can come into work and you’re looking forward to it and you may not even be aware of what day it is.” I can’t think of a better way of defining that you found a job and a vocation that is right for you. I think to her broader point it just doesn’t happen by answering an ad, yes you got to look at job ads but you also as she said you’ve got to think about your career and the work you love and how you can manage your career to get those opportunities again and again. Okay, thank you both and thank you Michelle for joining us this week and thank you all for listening to today’s episode of Find Your Dream Job.

If you like what you hear, please sign up for our free weekly newsletter. In each issue we give the key points of that week show, we also include links to all the resources mentioned and you get a transcript of the full episode. If you subscribe to the newsletter now we’ll send you our job secret checklist in one easy to use file. We’ll show you all the steps you need to take to find a great job. Get your free newsletter and checklist today go to macslist.org/podcast.

In today’s economy, everyone needs to be an entrepreneur. Regardless of whether you run your own business or work for someone else, whether you’re employed or looking for work, you always need to be thinking about selling your most important product: YOU!

This means building a network within your field. Branding yourself with an elevator pitch, personal website and business cards. And most importantly, keeping track of accomplishments and accolades you’ve gathered through your career.

Market yourself like entrepreneur and you’ll always be in the drivers seat of your career. Our guest, Michelle Ward, shares advice on how to market your professional self in a genuine and effective way.