Please note: we have been online over ten years, and we want The Trek BBS to continue as a free site. But if you block our ads we are at risk.Please consider unblocking ads for this site - every ad you view counts and helps us pay for the bandwidth that you are using. Thank you for your understanding.

Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.

A lot of people forget that "Gene's vision of a perfect humanity where everyone gets along" is a legend that started after the show went off the air. The characters in the original series were not like that, so their behavior can seem shocking. They were good people, but flawed, arrogant, and yes, even a bit racist. But that's what makes them so interesting, even today.

This is an incredibly salient and important point to remember.

These were NOT 23rd Century men in space, they were mid-1960 White Anglo culture in space, and they were real, and an accurate reflection of themselves and their culture of that time,.. The men openly chased the women, and punched each other out, got drunk, and talked about honor,.. and they DID NOT walk around the bridge on egg shells because Uhura was "other than caucasian", and Sulu's hobby was flowers.

So, trying to make STAR TREK out as some sort of utopian vision of the future, is total nonsense (as the above poster pointed out),... is was what it was: Mid-1960's American culture in Space,.. talking peace, while all the while zapping all that opposed the UFP agenda, one way or another. by hook or by crook,.. just like the war at the time.

__________________"Teaching English As A Second Language to the Cohms, it's what I do"

What bothered me the most was Kirk defending Spock in "Balance of Terror" from Stile's racism...and then, many episodes later, he and McCoy refer to Spock as a "devil" in "The Apple." WTF??? Yeah, I know McCoy and Kirk were just kidding, but they said that to Spock's face.

Not very cool or professional to do that to someone that you considerto be your best friend--especially if he's an officer who just got hit by a lightning bolt. If I were Spock, I'd have Vulcanized both their asses on the spot. lol

What bothered me the most was Kirk defending Spock in "Balance of Terror" from Stile's racism...and then, many episodes later, he and McCoy refer to Spock as a "devil" in "The Apple." WTF??? Yeah, I know McCoy and Kirk were just kidding, but they said that to Spock's face.

Not very cool or professional to do that to someone that you considerto be your best friend--especially if he's an officer who just got hit by a lightning bolt. If I were Spock, I'd have Vulcanized both their asses on the spot. lol

To be fair Spock brought it up. And they didn't call him the devil they just mentioned he looked more like Satan than Kirk did. Now, Capt. Tracy, he did call Spock the devil.

A lot of people forget that "Gene's vision of a perfect humanity where everyone gets along" is a legend that started after the show went off the air. The characters in the original series were not like that, so their behavior can seem shocking. They were good people, but flawed, arrogant, and yes, even a bit racist. But that's what makes them so interesting, even today.

This is an incredibly salient and important point to remember.

These were NOT 23rd Century men in space, they were mid-1960 White Anglo culture in space, and they were real, and an accurate reflection of themselves and their culture of that time,.. The men openly chased the women, and punched each other out, got drunk, and talked about honor,.. and they DID NOT walk around the bridge on egg shells because Uhura was "other than caucasian", and Sulu's hobby was flowers.

So, trying to make STAR TREK out as some sort of utopian vision of the future, is total nonsense (as the above poster pointed out),... is was what it was: Mid-1960's American culture in Space,.. talking peace, while all the while zapping all that opposed the UFP agenda, one way or another. by hook or by crook,.. just like the war at the time.

I don't think it's even particularly unrealistic if McCoy and Scotty really feel that way on some level. Vulcan-Human relations wern't particularly smooth up to that point.

And the very definition of being prejudiced is anticipating a group of people to act one way and making ill-adviced actions over pre-judging.

So when Spock would make some 'cold-blooded' decisions*, it's completly realistic that some people would flip out without thinking things through.

*And usually Spock was making a SMART call, and not some crazy Command Decision as seen in the simulation where Troi was trying to pass the "Command test". There were probably some horror stories going around about Vulcans weighing lives as figures in an accountants book.

And as for Spock, not only is he putting up with all this...he's in an alien culture. It's not surprising that he often picked very awkward moments to say something like, "You humans must be so proud about killing millions in your World Wars".

A lot of people forget that "Gene's vision of a perfect humanity where everyone gets along" is a legend that started after the show went off the air. The characters in the original series were not like that, so their behavior can seem shocking. They were good people, but flawed, arrogant, and yes, even a bit racist. But that's what makes them so interesting, even today.

This is an incredibly salient and important point to remember.

These were NOT 23rd Century men in space, they were mid-1960 White Anglo culture in space, and they were real, and an accurate reflection of themselves and their culture of that time,.. The men openly chased the women, and punched each other out, got drunk, and talked about honor,.. and they DID NOT walk around the bridge on egg shells because Uhura was "other than caucasian", and Sulu's hobby was flowers.

So, trying to make STAR TREK out as some sort of utopian vision of the future, is total nonsense (as the above poster pointed out),... is was what it was: Mid-1960's American culture in Space,.. talking peace, while all the while zapping all that opposed the UFP agenda, one way or another. by hook or by crook,.. just like the war at the time.

I don't think it's even particularly unrealistic if McCoy and Scotty really feel that way on some level. Vulcan-Human relations wern't particularly smooth up to that point.

And the very definition of being prejudiced is anticipating a group of people to act one way and making ill-adviced actions over pre-judging.

So when Spock would make some 'cold-blooded' decisions*, it's completly realistic that some people would flip out without thinking things through.

*And usually Spock was making a SMART call, and not some crazy Command Decision as seen in the simulation where Troi was trying to pass the "Command test". There were probably some horror stories going around about Vulcans weighing lives as figures in an accountants book.

And as for Spock, not only is he putting up with all this...he's in an alien culture. It's not surprising that he often picked very awkward moments to say something like, "You humans must be so proud about killing millions in your World Wars".

Exactly,.. "folks is folks" They do what they do while saying one thing and thinking another. Put them in space all you want, they are going to take their culture and attitudes with them.

__________________"Teaching English As A Second Language to the Cohms, it's what I do"

Switch all of McCoy's "Green blooded son of a bitch!" stuff to "Dark-skinned son of a bitch!" and his attitude really gets disgusting.

they were mid-1960 White Anglo culture in space

From the in-universe perspective, that of Spock's, the opposite is true, though. McCoy would be the inferior breed, the representative of the more-animal-than-man servant race that enjoys the privilege of working for the superior greenblood nobility. It's a cannon-fodder crew of "blacks" there, with one worthy "white" slumming with them for noble reasons of his own, and being quite tolerant of the racial slurs of 'em stupid niggers because naturally they just won't know any better.

The organization won't crumble out of disrespect for whites, because it's a black organization through and through; it's Spock's own decision to go slum there, and if he takes umbrage, it's again a personal rather than hierarchical matter.

Mix and Match, have fun, discover Historical Dictators and their Nationalist fervor-driven regimes!!!

Research the political agendas they instilled by controlling the masses (usually instituted during times of economic despair,... often sold as the "road to recovery" by some big personality who appears suddenly out of the mist to challenge, or out right over-throw, the currently installed government - while promising to deliver the people with his 'new deal', "new world order', 'new plan', 'new way', 'new dawn',... take your pick)

So yes,.. anytime you see the words The REAL before an organizations moniker, watch out.

__________________"Teaching English As A Second Language to the Cohms, it's what I do"

From the in-universe perspective, that of Spock's, the opposite is true, though. McCoy would be the inferior breed, the representative of the more-animal-than-man servant race that enjoys the privilege of working for the superior greenblood nobility. It's a cannon-fodder crew of "blacks" there, with one worthy "white" slumming with them for noble reasons of his own, and being quite tolerant of the racial slurs of 'em stupid niggers because naturally they just won't know any better.

Timo Saloniemi

Exactly spot-on. Again, it is all about PERSPECTIVES. That is probably the best summation of the likely attitude which Spock has to deal with on a ship full of humans.

I suppose if one considers he must keep his 'human-half' in check continually, I wonder if that same half of him just want to scream out in frustration about "those stupid freakin' Terrans"? LOL!

__________________"Teaching English As A Second Language to the Cohms, it's what I do"

But like I said, replace all their "Green blooded bastard" stuff with normal racist terms like calling Sulu "Yellow-skinned bastard" or Uhura "Negress", and these guys become a lot less sympathetic.

I suppose the positive spin of this is that Star Trek reserved its racial ribbing (or racial tension as with Stiles) for a fictional species, implicitly suggesting that racism was very much in Earth's past.

But also yeah, the show does carry its 1960s baggage around and that's dated some aspects pretty badly.

__________________
'Spock is always right, even when he's wrong. It's the tone of voice, the supernatural reasonability; this is not a man like us; this is a god.'
- Philip K. Dick