Indulgences have long been associated with the Vatican and the Protestant Reformation. How many in the Church would realize that She also partook in the sale between the 16th and 18th centuries? In fact, it wasn't until 1838 that it was actually condemned. History notes that the sales of "Absolute Certificates" was due to "Latin propaganda".

Indulgences have long been associated with the Vatican and the Protestant Reformation. How many in the Church would realize that She also partook in the sale between the 16th and 18th centuries? In fact, it wasn't until 1838 that it was actually condemned. History notes that the sales of "Absolute Certificates" was due to "Latin propaganda".

Indulgences have long been associated with the Vatican and the Protestant Reformation. How many in the Church would realize that She also partook in the sale between the 16th and 18th centuries? In fact, it wasn't until 1838 that it was actually condemned. History notes that the sales of "Absolute Certificates" was due to "Latin propaganda".

Indulgences have long been associated with the Vatican and the Protestant Reformation. How many in the Church would realize that She also partook in the sale between the 16th and 18th centuries? In fact, it wasn't until 1838 that it was actually condemned. History notes that the sales of "Absolute Certificates" was due to "Latin propaganda".

Maybe I missed something, but it doesn't seem that these were "sold." Also, the Roman medieval practice had to do with purgatory, IIRC.

Anyway, given the source, it just seems like more Russian propaganda along the lines of "The Greeks gave us the true faith, and then promptly forgot it."

The amazing thing is that the Vatican still issues indulgences, the main impetus for the Protestant Reformation. These will evidently get you out of a place, purgatory, which Orthodoxy does not believe exists.

Indulgences have long been associated with the Vatican and the Protestant Reformation. How many in the Church would realize that She also partook in the sale between the 16th and 18th centuries? In fact, it wasn't until 1838 that it was actually condemned. History notes that the sales of "Absolute Certificates" was due to "Latin propaganda".

Maybe I missed something, but it doesn't seem that these were "sold." Also, the Roman medieval practice had to do with purgatory, IIRC.

Anyway, given the source, it just seems like more Russian propaganda along the lines of "The Greeks gave us the true faith, and then promptly forgot it."

The amazing thing is that the Vatican still issues indulgences, the main impetus for the Protestant Reformation. These will evidently get you out of a place, purgatory, which Orthodoxy does not believe exists.

They are granted, as spiritual aids, not "issued". They are also not sold--to do so is and was the sin of simony, if I'm not mistaken. They don't get you out of Purgatory, and Purgatory is not a place.

The other "amazing thing" is how much people misunderstand indulgences. There are multiple threads on this board about them, and a wealth of information on numerous Catholic websites and in numerous books about them for anyone who would like to better educate themselves.

The other "amazing thing" is how much people misunderstand indulgences. There are multiple threads on this board about them, and a wealth of information on numerous Catholic websites and in numerous books about them for anyone who would like to better educate themselves.

Indulgences have long been associated with the Vatican and the Protestant Reformation. How many in the Church would realize that She also partook in the sale between the 16th and 18th centuries? In fact, it wasn't until 1838 that it was actually condemned. History notes that the sales of "Absolute Certificates" was due to "Latin propaganda".

Maybe I missed something, but it doesn't seem that these were "sold." Also, the Roman medieval practice had to do with purgatory, IIRC.

Anyway, given the source, it just seems like more Russian propaganda along the lines of "The Greeks gave us the true faith, and then promptly forgot it."

The amazing thing is that the Vatican still issues indulgences, the main impetus for the Protestant Reformation. These will evidently get you out of a place, purgatory, which Orthodoxy does not believe exists.

They are granted, as spiritual aids, not "issued". They are also not sold--to do so is and was the sin of simony, if I'm not mistaken. They don't get you out of Purgatory, and Purgatory is not a place.

The other "amazing thing" is how much people misunderstand indulgences. There are multiple threads on this board about them, and a wealth of information on numerous Catholic websites and in numerous books about them for anyone who would like to better educate themselves.

Logged

I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Indulgences have long been associated with the Vatican and the Protestant Reformation. How many in the Church would realize that She also partook in the sale between the 16th and 18th centuries? In fact, it wasn't until 1838 that it was actually condemned. History notes that the sales of "Absolute Certificates" was due to "Latin propaganda".

There are many points I find interesting, and they all revolve around the culture of the Orthodox church, which are consistently blamed on Latin influence and therefore apologetically excused for being ejected from Orthodoxy.

There are many points I find interesting, and they all revolve around the culture of the Orthodox church, which are consistently blamed on Latin influence and therefore apologetically excused for being ejected from Orthodoxy.

Is it? I imagined that you follow "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." (Most people would take that as a compliment.)

That's funny--I didn't read that in your post. I do attempt to live by that, failing miserably sometimes, but I never "imagined" that that was what you were talking about. So much for trying to "read", let alone understand, the imagination of others .

That which I *was* waiting for has arrived, so perhaps now I can wait for that which you imagined, incorrectly, that I was waiting for. On second thought, I really have far better things to wait for than for "someone to ask 'How so?'".

Is it? I imagined that you follow "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." (Most people would take that as a compliment.)

That's funny--I didn't read that in your post. I do attempt to live by that, failing miserably sometimes, but I never "imagined" that that was what you were talking about. So much for trying to "read", let alone understand, the imagination of others .

That which I *was* waiting for has arrived, so perhaps now I can wait for that which you imagined, incorrectly, that I was waiting for. On second thought, I really have far better things to wait for than for "someone to ask 'How so?'".

I'm not sure if I've done something to offend you, or what exactly, but after reading your last post, I'm not very optimistic about where this is going. But in any case, I too will be off-line for a while.

Is it? I imagined that you follow "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." (Most people would take that as a compliment.)

That's funny--I didn't read that in your post. I do attempt to live by that, failing miserably sometimes, but I never "imagined" that that was what you were talking about. So much for trying to "read", let alone understand, the imagination of others .

That which I *was* waiting for has arrived, so perhaps now I can wait for that which you imagined, incorrectly, that I was waiting for. On second thought, I really have far better things to wait for than for "someone to ask 'How so?'".

I'm not sure if I've done something to offend you, or what exactly, but after reading your last post, I'm not very optimistic about where this is going. But in any case, I too will be off-line for a while.

No, PeterJ, no offense taken at all. Cheer up, this could go anywhere at all, or nowhere at all. Probably best that it go nowhere at all.

It really is all too easy in a context such as this to misconstrue what others say, to read things into them that aren't there, to imagine something that ends up being just that--an imagination, and to take seriously something that was meant humorously. That's why the admin has provided us with the emoticons, which some here (not necessarily you, at all) fail to use, thinking that their words on the screen should be enough for anybody--and sometimes they're more than enough for anybody .

Also, taking things out of context and commenting on them, reading meaning that wasn't meant into them can get any of us into trouble with others.

So, having "thought" about this waaaaaaaaaayyyyyyy too much, the pain in my brain is excruciating and we'll all be far better off if I just go back to my yummy salad now .

I also remember that the Patriarch of Jerusalem was in some sort of a tour at the beginning of the 18th century through Wallachia and Moldova (perhaps Russia too?) selling absolution papers in order to raise funds for the patriarchate.

Are you sure about that? I could have sworn I read that the selling of indulgences was condemned at the Council of Trent.

You did.

Those running the school I went to and who told us "give a dollar and buy your way into heaven" must have missed that.

So too all those donation requests with promises of heaven, mass intentions, etc. attached....

Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.A hasty quarrel kindles fire,and urgent strife sheds blood.If you blow on a spark, it will glow;if you spit on it, it will be put out; and both come out of your mouth