enlightened wrote:Bluegreen please hear me out, I am not a troll, I am only a member of SFSK, and know nothing about SES or its history...

If there was abuse of children then I have nothing but sympathy, as I can not tolerate ill harm towards children at any level...

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Dear 'enlightened:' your phoney spiritual 'leader,' Nina Mavro and her mongrol mate, Mickey Mavro, actively encouraged, supported and fostered the abuse of children in Sydney SOP. I was in the room when La Nina said that our children must be slapped in the face, in the mouth, if any of our children expressed the slightest hint of criticism or disagreement with their phoney 'teaching.' And the 'ladies' running the children's groups were physically and emotionally abusive and had no training in the care of the young. It's one of the key reasons I left Mavro's false school, taking my dear son with me.

And then Mickey and Nina were given the boot, expelled, thrown out of their SES franchise by McLaren for the nightmarish bullies they were. And what did they do then, finding themselves without a core of submissive sychophants to clean their house, cook their food, pay their airfares to London and India, shine their shoes, lick their boots, hand wash their filthy underpants, donate all that time and money? Did they learn anything? No. They just went and found someother gray-haired old 'guru' with a dot on his forehead, with his own agenda, and started the destructive process all over again.

Encouraging violence against children reflects La Nina's true character and spiritual development. She is relentless and remorseless and uses her phoney school for her own agenda.

Beating up on little kids: that's your 'leader,' Nina Mavro. It clearly demonstrates the content of her character.

Poor Nina, just look at her. In her declining years, no husband, no children, no grandchildren, estranged from her family, swanning around her latest phoney school, projecting the false image that she knows what she's talking about, completely locked into her own lies and deceit and of such minimal spiritual development she is beyond admitting her own ignorance. She knows nothing. She has nothing to offer. She needs your submission and obedience to support her.

Sydneykatieking You are one angry, bitter broad!..your anger is really palpable.I dont know when all this took place, but I have never heard Mrs M speak like that about raising children.I can only speak of my experience now, and what is happening in the present.The way you talk about the Mavros suggests to me that there are deeper issues at play, and its very unkind of you to talk about an elderly woman who has devoted her whole life to spiritual evolvement in the abrasive and nasty manner that you do.

Dear enlightened: Nina Mavro (and her deceased monster mate) has done nothing but serve her own needs, desires, personal agendas and obsessions, for decades. You and your fellow followers allow her ignorance to continue. You are one of Nina Mavro's enablers. If you would really like to serve her highest good, you should walk away from her and her sham-school, thus forcing her to have a good look at herself. She is beyond doing it for herself, lacking all insight and humility.

Let me tell you a little secret about your Nina Mavro: she is terrified of being alone.

She is very close to being left alone. All she has left is this sham-school. Can you not see how dependent she is on you followers and her false school, with all its plagerized 'teachings.' You could do something really good for her, if you love her as you seem to, and force her to fall back on her own spiritual resources. No phoney spiritual practices, no students to boss and bully around, no one to 'sit at the foot of the master,' to feed her enormous vanity. None of it. If she is really so spiritually evolved, she should do the right thing by all of you and set you free. At last with some honesty, tell you the truth, that the whole thing was never anything but a big lie and fraud.

This forum provides a opportunity to speak from the heart and from actual experience. I really don't care if you don't like what I say, I will say it anyway. If it had been one of your children being beaten up by the violent and ignorant followers of the Mavros, then maybe you would see it from a different perspective. After all, I was only responding to your statement about caring about children. But perhaps you are more invested in protecting the rancid image of Nina Mavro as some sort of sweet, lovely lady who has devoted her whole life for the betterment of mankind. Poppycock.

Sydneykatieking: Wow you are one hell of a scary lady!...........I really think you need to go to a therapist to resolve your deep seated anger. Im sorry but your past has no bearing on my experience of Mrs M and SFSK in the present day and your words have absolutely no influence or affect on me.

I repeat 'don't feed the troll' you are just wasting your energy. With regards to Mrs M as she is nearing the end of her journey, she needs love not hate. A higher being than us will judge her good and bad actions. We all face death, and in the end hopefully our good actions outweigh the bad ones. It was my stupidity that kept me in the SOP for 14 years not the Mavro's so I won't be casting the first stone!

I don’t think it is a matter of casting stones, Tootsie. Also not everyone accepts that there is a higher judge who will administer justice after death. My in laws in Zimbabwe could explain it better. Michael and Nina Mavro laid the baits to snare the monkeys, however, if you treat your tribe of monkeys badly and cruelly then one day they will rise up and attack their captors no matter how well they have been fed by them. That is how it is in the real world.

enlightened wrote:Im sorry but your past has no bearing on my experience of Mrs M and SFSK in the present day and your words have absolutely no influence or affect on me.

I've responded to this point in the other thread, but I just want to reiterate what a callous position this is. What sort of "benefit" have you really derived from Mrs Mavro's teaching if you clearly seem not to care about other people's suffering? All this "teaching" seems to have done is make you apathetic. Do you really think this represents positive personal development?

For anyone who is unaware or would like a refresher about the SES and the SOP, here is a transcript of one of three newspaper articles written about SOP many years ago. This one was published first:

“Cult ‘enslaves’ devotees”

10th July 1985

Daily Telegraph Special Investigation of a strange “philosophy” cult flourishing in Sydney.

Reporter - Tim Stott

Mounted on the walls of Sydney’s underground railway station is a plain blue poster which reads: “Philosophy. An introductory course of 12 evening lectures.”Few realise that the innocent poster is the recruitment vehicle for a powerful worldwide cult rapidly expanding in Australia, the School of Philosophy (SOP).The school offers lectures in practical philosophy for everyday life. But, according to former members, the “pupils” realise only too late that it is a cult that strips members of personality and individuality, eventually brain washing them into a state of mindless obedience.It is estimated there are at least 800 members in Sydney and 20,000 worldwide. The cult now owns a $1 Million, five-story building in Kent street, Sydney with a penthouse paid for by members’ donations, and an 8ha property on Mt Wilson in the blue Mountains. Cult members have just opened the St. John’s primary school with Education Department approval in Falcon St, Crows Nest. It also operates the Logos Foundation, a branch of the cult within Sydney University. Australian members have been ordered to perform bizarre duties such as cleaning toilets with their bare fingers up to six times, because the work, when first performed, was not done with the right attitude. The cult claims that menial work has an uplifting effect and “brings one closer to the Absolute.” In Sydney, a former member said she was granted “the honour” of picking up the dog excreta from the cult leader’s back yard with her bare hands. Others claim they had to clean the cracks in the floor of the cult’s garage with matchsticks or scrape paint off ceilings with toothpicks. An expose of the group has been published by two British journalists Peter Hounam and Andrew Hogg. Called “Secret Cult,” the book alleges that members are brainwashed and conditioned so that their lives eventually revolve around the cult. A spokesman for the school in Australia, Mr Bruce Sullivan, said although he had not read the book and did not intend to, he believes the claims in it were untrue. In any case, he did not intend to “comment on any allegations made in the book.” Mr Sullivan insisted the SOP is an “evening educational service to the community” and not a cult. According to the book, the cult originates from Andrew MacClaren, a British Labour politician who formed the School of Economic Science in the 1930s.

The Book claims the school was established as an economics study group but that changed in the 1950s when his son, Leonardo da Vinci MacClaren, slowly converted it to a religious cult. Leon MacClaren, as he is known, decided the path of the school lay in the teachings of 20th century mystics Gurdjieff and Pytor Ouspensky. But in the late 1960s he had a change of heart and decided the cult should follow Indian guru Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, the man who converted the Beatles to the ways of meditation. By the late 1960s it was a predominantly Hindu cult operating under the guise of a study centre for economics and philosophy.From London it spread around the world, to New Zealand, U.S., Canada, Greece, Cyprus, Malta, Holland, Belgium, Spain, Ireland, South America, Trinidad and Fiji. The cult arrived in Australia in 1967 under the name “School of Philosophy” – the group uses different names in different countries so the branches can claim to be independent. Although MacClaren regards Australia as the dregs of Europe, he sent Mosko (Michael) Mavro to set it up in Sydney. Mavro, 59, is an Australian-born Greek and an engineer with the Electricity Commission. He operates the school in Sydney and Melbourne with the help of his wife Nina.Students enter the cult to attend 12 evening lectures. But after the first term it is explained that they must keep attending in order to obtain “The Truth.” After three years of gradually increased involvement students are initiated. Former members say initiation to meditation costs a week’s wages. (One cult member has the job of checking to make sure they actually pay the amount.) After the ceremony they must obey every order without question. A former member of 10 years, Ingrid Pusteria said: “After initiation one was committed to blind obedience to any whim of the seniors. My life became an endless round of dreary menial chores and empty ritual.” Former cult members said they were not allowed to own a radio or TV, read newspapers or anything apart from officially endorsed philosophical works.They said that for initiates fashion is out: jeans are taboo and men must wear three-piece suits made of natural fibres. Women can only wear their hair in a bun and must wear dresses to the floor so their ankles don’t “lower a man’s consciousness.” Women are also forbidden to wear make-up and must live with another initiated “maiden” and are discouraged from marrying, members claim. Anthony Raveci, a member for 13 years said, “Married couples are encouraged to remain celibate, as sexual intercourse is only ‘a distraction’ to the students’ work.” By initiation time members associate only with those inside the SOP and are told the outside world is “ignorant, asleep and evil.”Members are urged to live in Neutral Bay because a “state of Sattva” exists. According to the cult, Sattva is a state of spiritual peace, essential for the well being of all members. A former cult member said: “If a member deserts, other members pursue him and try to talk him into rejoining. It was difficult for me because like most others, I had severed all ties with the outside world and felt I had no friends or relatives I could turn to,” he said. One member told of how he was forced to leave Australia in order to escape. He claimed: “I had to move my possessions overnight because by that time I was living in Neutral Bay and was being watched 24 hours a day. The next morning I got out of the country to escape their pull. So they wouldn’t lose face, they spread a rumour I had not abandoned the ‘path to enlightenment’ but resumed my studies in Britain.”______________________________________________________________________________________________

My impression is that a person's character is not best determined when they are at the mercy of their circumstances, but rather when they are masters of them.

Mrs Mavro might be "changing" her behaviour now in a desperate attempt to keep the students she has left, but surely we must determine her character by examining her actions when she had unrivalled power in the SOP (and later in the SFSK) - it is not difficult to acknowledge that when she had power she abused it quite callously. Thus, she is a person that, when in a position of power, abuses it maximally. Is that the kind of person you want giving you "spiritual" advice?

Yes MOTS I can see where your'e coming from, if I hadnt ventured into this forum I guess Id be none the wiser....I would have just taken it on face value..the thing is that I am now firmly established in SFSK, Ive made some good friends there, and i like the general demeanour of the SFSK. As harsh as it may sound, with respect to the people who suffered at the hands of the Mavros , I cant let their past experiences influence my present experience. The fcat is Im only interested in what Mrs M has to offer now, not what she did in the past, I beleive that everyone should be allowed a second chance, and it seems that she has had to no choice but to change given what has happened of late.

enlightened wrote:Yes MOTS I can see where your'e coming from, if I hadnt ventured into this forum I guess Id be none the wiser....I would have just taken it on face value..the thing is that I am now firmly established in SFSK, Ive made some good friends there, and i like the general demeanour of the SFSK.

Yes, 'some good friends there' ..I wonder if you ever left .. would they still be your 'good friends'I seriously doubt it!That says a lot about the subtle manipulations and fear the school promotes.