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OtherOS fallout, Sony's changed the EULA now. It's not good. [Page 8]

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Instead of taking the time to patch out something I never used I'd like them to do something useful like making my trophies auto-sync and adding .mkv support. Ho hum.

Extrapolating that this might mean Sony would disable backwards compatibility (when they sell a lot of PS1 games on PSN still) or the web browser or whatever is just hysterics. Sony can get away with disabling this feature because nobody uses it.

Instead of taking the time to patch out something I never used I'd like them to do something useful like making my trophies auto-sync and adding .mkv support. Ho hum.

Extrapolating that this might mean Sony would disable backwards compatibility (when they sell a lot of PS1 games on PSN still) or the web browser or whatever is just hysterics. Sony can get away with disabling this feature because nobody uses it.

Trophies not auto-syncing absoultely baffles me. I'm connected to PSN - how is it that no info gets passed to Sony until I quit a game and look at my trophies?

Extrapolating that this might mean Sony would disable backwards compatibility (when they sell a lot of PS1 games on PSN still) or the web browser or whatever is just hysterics. Sony can get away with disabling this feature because nobody uses it.

Yeah, look at how many save game exploits there have been for the PSP. Yet you don't see Sony disabling the ability to save your progress.

Instead of taking the time to patch out something I never used I'd like them to do something useful like making my trophies auto-sync and adding .mkv support. Ho hum.

Extrapolating that this might mean Sony would disable backwards compatibility (when they sell a lot of PS1 games on PSN still) or the web browser or whatever is just hysterics. Sony can get away with disabling this feature because nobody uses it.

Trophies not auto-syncing absoultely baffles me. I'm connected to PSN - how is it that no info gets passed to Sony until I quit a game and look at my trophies?

Whenever I try to figure out why it works that way I feel my mind breaking down and my sanity escaping me.

I think the only group this seriously hurts is the super-computer on the cheap crowd, but I highly doubt they care one lick about PSN and can simply choose not to update their firmware. In fact, I bet most of them are already several firmwares behind, because they don't want to corrupt their environments with possibly buggy firmware.

I’ll tell you what happens in Demon’s Souls when you die. You come back as a ghost with your health capped at half. And when you keep on dying, the alignment of the world turns black and the enemies get harder. That’s right, when you fail in this game, it gets harder. Why? Because fuck you is why.

While we're on the subject of the PS3 and the internet (kinda), I'd like to have the option of PSN downloads not automatically pausing whenever I start a game.
I know not all games do this, but it seems vast majority do these days.

Does anyone honestly believe they are going to retroactively remove BC? I mean seriously believe it would happen, and not just throwing out slippery slope bullshit to make the removal of Linux sound more dire than it really is.

I don't think it will happen.

I DO think that they deserve to have everyone blubbering about it, though, because of the highly ironic ad campaign that they are running WHILE removing fringe features.

I think the only group this seriously hurts is the super-computer on the cheap crowd, but I highly doubt they care one lick about PSN and can simply choose not to update their firmware. In fact, I bet most of them are already several firmwares behind, because they don't want to corrupt their environments with possibly buggy firmware.

I'm sure the people running PS3 clusters don't even consider firmware updates. Firstly there is nothing of interest in the updates.
Secondly, manually updating every single machine one of these once a month on average would be a bitch. (I assume there is no centralized firmware update function on PS3)

Instead of taking the time to patch out something I never used I'd like them to do something useful like making my trophies auto-sync and adding .mkv support. Ho hum.

Extrapolating that this might mean Sony would disable backwards compatibility (when they sell a lot of PS1 games on PSN still) or the web browser or whatever is just hysterics. Sony can get away with disabling this feature because nobody uses it.

Given that they're turning the ability to download and play PS2 games into a cash cow, I wouldn't put it past them.

I'm not saying THIS AMS GOING TO HAPPSN! However, I consider removing features, and hell, how they've treated BC with the PS3 in general, to be on par with how stupid of a move it would be, thus placing it in the realm of possibility in my mind.

I don't understand some of the thinking on BC. The ps3 came out almost FOUR years ago. And the last big game for ps2 more than THREE years ago. Thats forever time in technology land. My god, you could get a girl pregnant and have something that walks and talks in that time.

Sony wants and cares about paying customers. You know, that way they stay in business making playstations that play games. If you are still playing games that are four years old, you are not their customers. You are not really useful to them.

I got the 80g software BC ps3 with the Motorstorm package bc I had a bunch of ps2 games I might wanna play.

I have not played a single PS2 game since I got the PS3. There are too many ridiculously good games for the triple out.

Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. - Winston Churchill

You're arguing two different things. One is "Old games are old" and the other is "Sony is a company". The first one's ridiculous - old doesn't mean bad.

As for Sony - they sold some units with the ability to play those older games on it. Massive if's aside that was part of my reason for upgrading. I use the feature, and played through a pair of PS2 games and a PS1 game last summer (and with the Wii's BC, a GameCube game!).

You're arguing two different things. One is "Old games are old" and the other is "Sony is a company". The first one's ridiculous - old doesn't mean bad.

As for Sony - they sold some units with the ability to play those older games on it. Massive if's aside that was part of my reason for upgrading. I use the feature, and played through a pair of PS2 games and a PS1 game last summer (and with the Wii's BC, a GameCube game!).

Old games are not bad. But they sure don't earn anybody any money today. And Sony is a company. A company that sells new video games and new systems that play new video games.

This shit didn't come out yesterday, if you haven't played a PS2 game by now, then you're not really someone sony is trying to market to.

Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. - Winston Churchill

But that was only half your argument. And it's completely off the point of the discussion. Which in it's craziness was "There'd be a shitstorm if Sony removed BC." There would be. Sony charged a premium for backwards compatible machines, removing that feature at a later date from machines with it would indeed cause a brouhaha. Just like removing support for a feature that was sold with it advertised started this discussion, and it's a feature which affects a far, far fewer and less vocal amount of users.

And to go back to the whole PS2 games thing - Shattered Memories came out for the PS2 just this January, if I'm not mistaken.

I actually like Trophies not auto-syncing, if only because it's connected with my Facebook and I don't want my wall to be a constant barrage of "Anthony just got a Trophy in Just Cause 2!"

Uncharted 2 had an option to turn this off. I bet Just Cause 2 does, too.

Nah, you're thinking of the Twitter feed. Not the same thing. The Facebook app actually connects to your PSN account and posts any Trophies you get onto your Facebook wall. It only does it when you sync your account, though.

Does anyone honestly believe they are going to retroactively remove BC? I mean seriously believe it would happen, and not just throwing out slippery slope bullshit to make the removal of Linux sound more dire than it really is.

I bet you they would if someone found a hypervisor crack that worked through the PS2 BC layer.

Given that they're turning the ability to download and play PS2 games into a cash cow, I wouldn't put it past them.

I'm not saying THIS AMS GOING TO HAPPSN! However, I consider removing features, and hell, how they've treated BC with the PS3 in general, to be on par with how stupid of a move it would be, thus placing it in the realm of possibility in my mind.

You're still talking absolute shit though. They've said nothing about being able to download and play PS2 games off the PSN. And seeing as you can both play PS1 games off the PSN and the original CD releases, Sony have set a precedent that they wouldn't remove PS2 disc support.

But that was only half your argument. And it's completely off the point of the discussion. Which in it's craziness was "There'd be a shitstorm if Sony removed BC." There would be. Sony charged a premium for backwards compatible machines, removing that feature at a later date from machines with it would indeed cause a brouhaha. Just like removing support for a feature that was sold with it advertised started this discussion, and it's a feature which affects a far, far fewer and less vocal amount of users.

And to go back to the whole PS2 games thing - Shattered Memories came out for the PS2 just this January, if I'm not mistaken.

I understand there would be a shitstorm if Sony patched out BC compatibility. I'm saying that's colossally stupid. After four years since the ps2 hasn't been a lead console, you've had time to play the old games. Now its time to move on. Try something new.

And btw, Shattered Memories was a Wii Port. The last big ps2 game was God of War 2 which was more than 3 years ago.

Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. - Winston Churchill

I don't understand some of the thinking on BC. The ps3 came out almost FOUR years ago. And the last big game for ps2 more than THREE years ago. Thats forever time in technology land. My god, you could get a girl pregnant and have something that walks and talks in that time.

Sony wants and cares about paying customers. You know, that way they stay in business making playstations that play games. If you are still playing games that are four years old, you are not their customers. You are not really useful to them.

I got the 80g software BC ps3 with the Motorstorm package bc I had a bunch of ps2 games I might wanna play.

I have not played a single PS2 game since I got the PS3. There are too many ridiculously good games for the triple out.

There's bins and bins of PS2 games at Gamestops. There are zero OXbox and Gamecube games.

If Sony had wanted 'paying customers' to move over to the PS3, they should have killed the PS2 when the PS3 launched. Microsoft pretty much killed the OXBox off the day the 360 launched, and it served them well.

I don't understand some of the thinking on BC. The ps3 came out almost FOUR years ago. And the last big game for ps2 more than THREE years ago. Thats forever time in technology land. My god, you could get a girl pregnant and have something that walks and talks in that time.

Sony wants and cares about paying customers. You know, that way they stay in business making playstations that play games. If you are still playing games that are four years old, you are not their customers. You are not really useful to them.

I got the 80g software BC ps3 with the Motorstorm package bc I had a bunch of ps2 games I might wanna play.

I have not played a single PS2 game since I got the PS3. There are too many ridiculously good games for the triple out.

There's bins and bins of PS2 games at Gamestops. There are zero OXbox and Gamecube games.

I don't understand some of the thinking on BC. The ps3 came out almost FOUR years ago. And the last big game for ps2 more than THREE years ago. Thats forever time in technology land. My god, you could get a girl pregnant and have something that walks and talks in that time.

Sony wants and cares about paying customers. You know, that way they stay in business making playstations that play games. If you are still playing games that are four years old, you are not their customers. You are not really useful to them.

I got the 80g software BC ps3 with the Motorstorm package bc I had a bunch of ps2 games I might wanna play.

I have not played a single PS2 game since I got the PS3. There are too many ridiculously good games for the triple out.

There's bins and bins of PS2 games at Gamestops. There are zero OXbox and Gamecube games.

This is false

There's a ton of OXbox and GC games at both my local GameStops

They've stopped taking OXbox games in trade, though

There is none at the Gamestops around here. I have to go to Gamers if I want anything that isn't current-gen+PS2.

I thought it was weird as well, but Nintendo pulled them out of the retail channels pretty fast once the Wii took off, to get more space for Wii titles. Microsoft pulled the OXbox off the shelves pretty much instantly.

I don't understand some of the thinking on BC. The ps3 came out almost FOUR years ago. And the last big game for ps2 more than THREE years ago. Thats forever time in technology land. My god, you could get a girl pregnant and have something that walks and talks in that time.

Sony wants and cares about paying customers. You know, that way they stay in business making playstations that play games. If you are still playing games that are four years old, you are not their customers. You are not really useful to them.

I got the 80g software BC ps3 with the Motorstorm package bc I had a bunch of ps2 games I might wanna play.

I have not played a single PS2 game since I got the PS3. There are too many ridiculously good games for the triple out.

There's bins and bins of PS2 games at Gamestops. There are zero OXbox and Gamecube games.

This is false

There's a ton of OXbox and GC games at both my local GameStops

They've stopped taking OXbox games in trade, though

I was about to say, I don't know what GameStop stores you've been visiting, but I find boxes of oXbox games no problem. Slightly fewer Gamecube games. And, quite fairly, if Microsoft did away with their own BC, I'd be damned annoyed.

Honestly, I don't know where this whole, "Why are you still playing PS2 games?" mentality comes from. How about this: I don't own a Wii. I want to play Sakura Wars 5. So to "Why are you still playing PS2 Games?" I'd ask "Why the hell aren't these PS2 games available on the PS3?".

See the absurdity? I hope so, it seems pretty obvious. I bought a used 80 GB PS3 for $210 (not including shipping) when my third PS2 dies, so this particularly annoys me. Anyone who asks me, "Why do you need a PS3 that plays PS2 games?" has obviously been much, much luckier than me when it comes to PS2 survival rates, and that's fine for them, but that really doesn't help me at all.

While we're on the subject of the PS3 and the internet (kinda), I'd like to have the option of PSN downloads not automatically pausing whenever I start a game.
I know not all games do this, but it seems vast majority do these days.

Online games pause background downloading (as does watching disc based movies). I guess the reason most new games pause background downloading is they will connect to PSN for stat collection or something.

edit - this could also be why trophy syncing isn't automatic. It would mean all games would connect to PSN if the console was online and all games from the last 2 years or so would pause background downloading.

But that was only half your argument. And it's completely off the point of the discussion. Which in it's craziness was "There'd be a shitstorm if Sony removed BC." There would be. Sony charged a premium for backwards compatible machines, removing that feature at a later date from machines with it would indeed cause a brouhaha. Just like removing support for a feature that was sold with it advertised started this discussion, and it's a feature which affects a far, far fewer and less vocal amount of users.

And to go back to the whole PS2 games thing - Shattered Memories came out for the PS2 just this January, if I'm not mistaken.

I understand there would be a shitstorm if Sony patched out BC compatibility. I'm saying that's colossally stupid. After four years since the ps2 hasn't been a lead console, you've had time to play the old games. Now its time to move on. Try something new.

And btw, Shattered Memories was a Wii Port. The last big ps2 game was God of War 2 which was more than 3 years ago.

You're still talking two different arguments. "You had time to play old games" has zero relevancy to "Sony is a Company". And frankly, I didn't have enough time to play everything I wanted from the PS2-era. Hell, I still have a pair of PS1 games to run through and I'll do it someday, too.

As for Sony - I'm a consumer. I don't care that they're a business. The bottom line is that they sold me a console that does play older games. Never before has there been a question about the feature list of a product changing so dramatically [to some people] after the purchase of it. Sony themselves have made their own mess in regards to backwards compatibility. As someone else mentioned, if BC were removed because it was in fact necessary to any Hypervisor crack that isn't my problem. Ludicrous question time! After the PS4 releases, is it cool to remove PS3 support from the PS3 to increase sales / prevent piracy / concoct any scenario you wish?

And so what if it's a Wii port? If you don't own a Wii does that truly matter? And Persona 4 came out a full year after God of War II, which wasn't ported from anything.

EDIT: I am not assuming this is the case for everyone, just sharing a personal anecdote

I would imagine as much, because if so, clearly the amount people want to play PS3 games versus their PS2 predecessors is having their brain play tricks on them.

I own 2 PS3 titles, versus....perhaps 8 PS2 titles? Soon to be nine? And this is even after I resolved "I will not buy any more PS2 titles unless I have no other approach to play a game I must really, really play". No such hang-ups exist for me and the PS3, the games just aren't there for me personally.

As Litany pointed out, not every one of us had 8 hours a day to sit in front of a PS2, our brains being fried, between 2001 and 2006. God knows I tried, but my PS2s liked to die on me for whatever convenient reason. This whole "You had your chance to play PS2 games, get with the times, gramps!" is kind of absurd.

"Suck it up" of course, meaning "buy older PS3 consoles that still retain BC from the large population of happy-to-oblige resellers rather than Sony".

I'm pretty certain that the only thing that's going to cause me to buy a Slim potentially is my current PS3 dying (knock on wood). And even then, I'm pretty confident that if I couldn't get it repaired, I'd buy another BC model. I can get one for cheaper than a Slim, the footprint is slightly smaller (which makes it convenient space-wise, despite the PS3's large, large size), and apparently the internal wireless device is pretty mediocre on either model.

It's not an issue of sales or what have you. If Sony never offered the feature, I'd have picked up a second PS2 and left it in it's box until my then-current one died. Like many, I went through more than one of the buggers. Just like many still have various legacy systems hooked up.

The issue in this thread isn't the removal of BC from new[er] hardware, but rather an update which removes it à la OtherOS support.

Given that they're turning the ability to download and play PS2 games into a cash cow, I wouldn't put it past them.

I'm not saying THIS AMS GOING TO HAPPSN! However, I consider removing features, and hell, how they've treated BC with the PS3 in general, to be on par with how stupid of a move it would be, thus placing it in the realm of possibility in my mind.

You're still talking absolute shit though. They've said nothing about being able to download and play PS2 games off the PSN. And seeing as you can both play PS1 games off the PSN and the original CD releases, Sony have set a precedent that they wouldn't remove PS2 disc support.