(07-11-2011 05:48 AM)Filox Wrote: Communism is a social, political and economic movement that aims at the establishment of a classless, moneyless and stateless communist society structured upon common ownership of the means of production.

Religion is a collection of cultural systems, belief systems, and worldviews that establishes symbols that relate humanity to spirituality and, sometimes, to moral values. Many religions have narratives, symbols, traditions and sacred histories that are intended to give meaning to life or to explain the origin of life or the universe.

So, no, communism has nothing to do with religions, in fact, most countries that had communism didn't allow religions, or made it difficult for them to act openly.

That "friend" of yours is retarded if he does not know a difference between religion and political movement. If he ever says Obama is a communist, then you should kick his sorry ass until he bleeds. I would send him to some communist, or at least post-communist country, so that he can see for himself what it means. I HATE when people (usually Americans) throw words like "communism" around and yet they have NO IDEA about the concept of the word, or how it is to live under communism. Tell him he should be ashamed of himself. And for your sake, don't surround yourself with friends like that.

For you who think that USA is going toward communism, I feel sorry for you. Being a socially enlightened and wanting to give the HEALTH care to everybody is not communistic but human thing to do. It should be normal, not labeled as "communistic", that is just wrong, retarded, ignorant and very, very dangerous, you will se why it is dangerous when you get sick and they throw you out of the hospital, because you don't have enough money. Assholes!

BTW, the message that Jesus preached was COMMUNISM! He was a true communist, tell that to your fundie friend.

I usually don't quote the entire post but this one was such a perfect summary that I just could not leave any of it out.

houseofcantor, you should educate yourself a bit about communism before you start labeling things as "American" or "anti-American". I'm not saying that communism is good for anyone, but some things there include 100% equality for everyone and most of the people today who consider themselves communists, are saying that because of the "equality" thing. No other social or political movement has that kind of "equality for everyone". Of course, in reality it does not function like that, that is why true communism was never active in any state ever in this world. All we had were some perverted derivates of communism, twisted and abused to the point of nonrecognition.

The only way most Americans think that communism is "anti-American" is because you have been brainwashed for the last 60 years that as soon as someone even mentions the dreadful "C" word, you all label them as anti-American. Cold war is over for a long time, get over it. What you Americans need is some more socialism in your laws and bills, to help the people not just the ruling party, more things like this new health care system Obama is trying to push. That is not communistic, nor anti-American, that is the way to make poor people feel more like people and less like animals, to give something to those who don't have anything. If that is anti-American, question yourself, in what kind of sick country do you live?

P.S.
Thanx Zatamon. Where I live, communism was present in some way until 20 years ago. Things didn't turn out that well now that we are democratic state, but they were not good before that as well. Post-communism sucks balls. It is more post-socialism here, but it is very similar.

I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours.-Hunter S. Thompson

(07-11-2011 06:24 AM)Filox Wrote: The only way most Americans think that communism is "anti-American" is because you have been brainwashed for the last 60 years that as soon as someone even mentions the dreadful "C" word, you all label them as anti-American.

And it has been done systematically, on purpose, by the US elite and their mouthpiece: the mainstream media.

Almost all the words that stand for beautiful concepts were turned into 'dirty words'.

(07-11-2011 06:24 AM)Filox Wrote: P.S.
Thanx Zatamon. Where I live, communism was present in some way until 20 years ago. Things didn't turn out that well now that we are democratic state, but they were not good before that as well. Post-communism sucks balls. It is more post-socialism here, but it is very similar.

Filox, I could tell you horror stories about post-communist Hungary -- 'enjoying' all the blessings of newly-found Capitalism. Homelessness, hunger, crime, corruption, ostentation AND RELIGION!!! (it has become an epidemic there) in scales unseen during 'communism'.

I tried to describe what it was like there during those years in the "Travelers' Tales" thread.

(07-11-2011 06:24 AM)Filox Wrote: The only way most Americans think that communism is "anti-American" is because you have been brainwashed for the last 60 years that as soon as someone even mentions the dreadful "C" word, you all label them as anti-American.

Exactly. You're not appreciating my humor - that's fine - I don't say "that's UnAmerican!" in any form other than comedy. The ignorance of my fellow Americans is a laughing matter on TTA - 'cause ya ain't going to find many here... well, I'm assuming, but the American atheist is generally way more intelligent that the American non-atheist.

I don't like Communism because I'm a technocratic anarchist. I've researched these topics as much as needed to draw this conclusion. I got the best system, what can I tell ya?

(07-11-2011 07:05 AM)Filox Wrote: Ah, so I have taken you too literally, sorry about that. Will try to read between the lines next time.

Hey, it's more my fault than yours. If I knew I was gonna "grow up and solve alla world's problems with zero-state," I woulda written up technocratic anarchy long ago... I'm still trying to do it without growing up.

It's interesting about American, unAmerican and anti-American values....
Claims to be the first republic where "all men are created equal" and yet has a culture based on slavery,genocide, racism and economic caste.
Original colonies were christian sects of the most literally biblical sort: plain, strict, nose-to-the-grindstone protestant, directly opposed to the monarchies, state religions, ostentation and class divisions of Europe... and yet have become the staunchest defenders of inherited privilege and power, both domestically and abroad.
In God We Trust.... and have a security organization Byzantium could only marvel at.
Ain't mass communication grand?

(07-11-2011 08:49 AM)Peterkin Wrote: Claims to be the first republic where "all men are created equal"

I'm thinking that was Athens. I also know that American adventurism was started by Colonel George Washington when he kicked off "the French and Indian war" on this side of the pond (I'm thinking it was "seven years war" in England - he might have been operating on Agenda).

We're no "greater nor less" than any other country - lately we're looking more like less. I haven't seen conclusive evidence that WWII wasn't "posturing" that got outta hand - but when "America hadda rule the world," she didn't do a too bad a job.

(Anybody wanna fill me in on discrepancy, I got no problem learning stuff.)

(07-11-2011 12:18 PM)houseofcantor Wrote: We're no "greater nor less" than any other country - lately we're looking more like less. I haven't seen conclusive evidence that WWII wasn't "posturing" that got outta hand - but when "America hadda rule the world," she didn't do a too bad a job.

When I was in England, 40 years ago, an old man in a shop told me the following:

"Mark my word, young man -- England ruled the world for centuries and now she rests like a sleeping lion -- but she will wake up soon and she will rule again!"

I got into a debate with a close pal of mine yesterday that had me at a loss. A loss for anything logical to say as his clams were astonishingly insane. Especially coming from a guy who’s got a BS Engineering degree from Perdue with a very high GPA.

Well, he’s a fundie. And we get to talking politics and we go on and on. I start bringing up the insanity of the “Obama the Muslim” claim and how I feel (and still feel) that Muslim is code word for the dreaded N word.
He said he don’t think he’s Muslim or Christian..but a Communist. It caused me to stop and question myself for a second………………..then….

I asked him a second time “You mean to tell me that you think Communism is a religion?” and he said YES! Then he went on this typical Christian blathering about how even Capitalism can be considered a religion based on what JC and the Sunshine Band said in the bible. Even GREED can be a religion, he remarked over and over. I sat like a deer in headlights at such proclamations.

At this point I ran dangerously close to losing a close pal as I could not help but laugh out loud and tell him that claim is INSANE. Later he went on about how I called him INSANE. I told him I did no such thing but told him what he was saying was insane……..then he got into silly semantics about how that’s the same thing (totally derailing the topic).

What I find stupefying is that when I get into debates with many of these fundies….they simply don’t know the meaning of words. Just that simple! The Palinization of this Nation is complete. Smart people saying the most insane things. I literally was at a loss as to what to say. When you can’t agree on simple textbook definition of words….what do you have? I’ll tell you…you have Pure nonsense.

I really left this discussion with a heavy heart as this guy I care for dearly but seems to make no sense despite his stellar education. Boggles the mind!

Just had to share….

Denicio

Very curious. A Christian - non-fundamentalist - friend of mine attacked atheism on the grounds that Atheistic communism was responsible for a lot of murder. As I had barely started to discuss atheism with people I tried to argue that Communism is a religion.

I would be unlikely to do that now. However the Soviet version did bare a lot of resemblance. There was a set of prophecies in a book written by a bearded old man. The prophecies were so flexibly interpretable as to be unfalsifiable. Heretics were persecuted. There were relics such a Lenin's tomb. And of course it was not possible to be both Communist and Christian. Only it claimed to be both atheistic and scientific.

Using words in novel and creative ways is sometimes permissible - for example to express new concepts. But ideally the word should be defined and the listener must accept that definition at least for the purpose of the discussion. Or at the very least the unusual meaning must be clear from the context.

When trying to argue that Communism is a religion in future I would assume nothing was clear from context and proceed only having agreed a definition of "religion" with my conversationalist. And altogether I think it is better to try and use the language that he/she is comfortable with.