I am developing a mind coaching workshop for surfers and I would like to know what the forum user’s thoughts are on the concept of approaching your surf training from a mental training point of view.

The workshops will incorporate many principles from the field of Neuro Linguistic Programming (NLP) of which I am a qualified practitioner and a member of BATHh (the British Association of Therapeutic Hypnotists and NLP practitioners) who are approved by the CNHC (Complementary natural healthcare council) who are a government funded regulator body. For those of you who may not have heard of NLP, you may be familiar with Derren Brown and Paul McKenna (I can make you thin, I can make you happy etc) both of whom were trained in NLP and use it, though not solely, in their work.

Many celebrities and sports people have also used NLP for a variety of reasons, including Tiger Woods and Andre Agassi, Its application is as varied as it is pragmatic and versatile in its application and its use can be described as mind coaching. As a keen surfer, I have approached the idea that Kelly Slater has been quoted saying, “Surfing is 90% Mental” “its all about where your mind is at”, and in doing so, developed a 1 day workshop that has been designed to optimise the time that surfers get in the water, as we spent a lot of money, time and energy to get literally minutes actually riding on the face of a wave so why wouldn’t you want to improve your experience and performance if you could? I know that when you surf, you feel good and you chase that feeling till the next time. You don’t say I’ve had enough now, you carrying on till you run out of time or energy or daylight. It feels that good, that surfers can be a little obsessive about our passion, which is why it can be sooo frustrating when you do not get as much out of a session as you hoped. You can do all the fitness training, watch loads of DVD’s, have all the right equipment and get in the water as often as you possibly can and yet sometimes it doesn’t live up to your expectations. That’s where MIND SURFING™ comes in, mind coaching to get more life out of every day and more stoke out of every surf. Please let me know your thoughts…

Err I'm not so sure ATT, I don't think it's completely $h!te, though I'm not denying that I'm sceptical about it. I think there's a room for it (there's always a room for some "$h!te").

Probably people with competitive mentality who are desperate to win the next surf competition at all cost will bite for it, but I doubt that's the case with an ordinary surf-riders like me. I can think of loads of other things that I can work on to enjoy surfing before considering a mental training workshop.

But it would be interesting to hear little bit more about this, perhaps a snippet of how NLP can influence how we surf or how we can enjoy surfing more?

NLP is a rudderless brainwashing technique that aims to convince other people of something you yourself don't give a hoot about.Remember Tiger Woods who's wife chucked his golf club through the back window of his car for shagging every whore in town. NLP focussed his wife's mind better than his!!!!!

Black wrote:NLP is a rudderless brainwashing technique that aims to convince other people of something you yourself don't give a hoot about.Remember Tiger Woods who's wife chucked his golf club through the back window of his car for shagging every whore in town. NLP focussed his wife's mind better than his!!!!!

Need I carry on?

Didn't click on your link ATT so maybe repeating the video, sorry.

click on it mate , 'tis funny.

upshot is , be committed, believe in yourself, and as a guy I know who is a top surfer shouted to me while paddling out 'get into character' ................ i.e. a hunter of waves ............ there you go ! Free no NLP.

The perspective in NLP is that we all build a inner model of our world referred to as a map, and it is through that, in which we filter information that enters through our conscious awareness. For anyone to infer apon the internal processing of another person without at least further investigation seems futile. What makes you who you are? A subject you learnt at school? a good teacher? your parents? Or maybe the way you have learnt to understand and process information from your external environment through your internal map, one that has been built up through countless experiences, some good, some bad and some have developed useful strategies for you and others not so useful. The process of positive mental rehearsal is one that many sports people use which can be clearly observed when watching athletes warm up at the Olympics. Of which some may also be found to have some bad habits and others not. I doubt there is a link, however there is a reason the different approaches are favoured by some and it is not until you even know what that approach is, or have tried it out, can you realistically assume to know. Do not take my word for it or anyone else’s, everyone must test for themselves what works for them, rather than be led by those that have not done the same for themselves.

I guess from some of the post that people don't realise that most people at the top of their game use NLP, if it's in sport, business or what ever.Personally I have used NLP in the past at work & home have been hoping to find someone who has Mapped key mental processes.

Laurence wrote:The perspective in NLP is that we all build a inner model of our world referred to as a map, and it is through that, in which we filter information that enters through our conscious awareness. For anyone to infer apon the internal processing of another person without at least further investigation seems futile. What makes you who you are? A subject you learnt at school? a good teacher? your parents? Or maybe the way you have learnt to understand and process information from your external environment through your internal map, one that has been built up through countless experiences, some good, some bad and some have developed useful strategies for you and others not so useful. The process of positive mental rehearsal is one that many sports people use which can be clearly observed when watching athletes warm up at the Olympics. Of which some may also be found to have some bad habits and others not. I doubt there is a link, however there is a reason the different approaches are favoured by some and it is not until you even know what that approach is, or have tried it out, can you realistically assume to know. Do not take my word for it or anyone else’s, everyone must test for themselves what works for them, rather than be led by those that have not done the same for themselves.

I guess from some of the post that people don't realise that most people at the top of their game use NLP, if it's in sport, business or what ever.Personally I have used NLP in the past at work & home have been hoping to find someone who has Mapped key mental processes.

Laurence wrote:The perspective in NLP is that we all build a inner model of our world referred to as a map, and it is through that, in which we filter information that enters through our conscious awareness. For anyone to infer apon the internal processing of another person without at least further investigation seems futile. What makes you who you are? A subject you learnt at school? a good teacher? your parents? Or maybe the way you have learnt to understand and process information from your external environment through your internal map, one that has been built up through countless experiences, some good, some bad and some have developed useful strategies for you and others not so useful.

So our judgement is coloured by our experience, thats so profound I almost shat myself.

Laurence wrote:The process of positive mental rehearsal is one that many sports people use which can be clearly observed when watching athletes warm up at the Olympics. Of which some may also be found to have some bad habits and others not. I doubt there is a link, however there is a reason the different approaches are favoured by some and it is not until you even know what that approach is, or have tried it out, can you realistically assume to know. Do not take my word for it or anyone else’s, everyone must test for themselves what works for them, rather than be led by those that have not done the same for themselves.

Personal verification: A tool used by quasi-religious cults to convince you of something - once verified there's no escaping!!

PS Forgot to say NLP is also a way of convincing yourself of something you don't really believe.

As I have previously stated "Do not take my word for it or anyone else’s, everyone must test for themselves what works for them, rather than be led by those that have not done the same for themselves". Do you think that the olympians breaking a world record do not have self belief that goes beyond what they know, or do they believe that they can do it before they know they can. Black - your statement demonstrates how much you are missing the point. Before you could surf, couldn't you imagine that you could? If you didn't you would be full of so much negative belief that you may struggle with many things in life.

Struggled a bit to understand your second comment, Laurence... What exactly is NLP, in laymans terms, please? Especially me, who's skull is filled with full of saltwater and $h!t, it only takes couple of difficult words to switch me off... Apology for my uneducated brain.

I heard of something like cognitive behavioural therapy. Where someone being counselled is only asked few questions and the individual reflects on what he/she says/thinks/emotionally reacts to the counsellor's questions. Is it something similar to that? To reflect on who you really are?

Laurence wrote:As I have previously stated "Do not take my word for it or anyone else’s, everyone must test for themselves what works for them, rather than be led by those that have not done the same for themselves".

Aye, repeating something over and over again doesn't make it actual, despite what your NLP would have you believe.

Laurence wrote:Do you think that the olympians breaking a world record do not have self belief that goes beyond what they know, or do they believe that they can do it before they know they can. Black - your statement demonstrates how much you are missing the point. Before you could surf, couldn't you imagine that you could? If you didn't you would be full of so much negative belief that you may struggle with many things in life.

Olympians! You've stopped naming actual people (or was it arseholes?) then and appropriated the more amorphous group of super humans whose minds you seem to know so well. You also think you know my psyche better than I do, well I bow down before the all knowing guru! As for your last sentence, it seems you are the one with the negativity that needs supporting with "NLP"

Hello Laurence. Good luck convincing some of the thicker, closed-minded, knee-jerk reactive forum members of the validity of NLP/training the mind. Maybe some of the more educated forum members might be open to it though? It makes me laugh that people are dissing it when they don't even know what it is! Hilarious!! If they think it is "a rudderless brainwashing technique" then all they are really saying is that they don't know what NLP is. Also, if you convince yourself of something that you don't really believe, then doesn't it BECOME what you really believe?! If a hypnotherapist had a client that came to them convinced that they couldn't give up smoking, but were keen to try, and the therapist helped them to change their thinking to be able to give up smoking, would that be a "bad" thing? That's kinda what it is.NLP is a vast subject that can't be approached in any detail in simpleton terms. Sorry fellas.It is also just a tool. You don't have to be ultra competitive or a top athlete to benefit from using some NLP techniques. If you were a beginner and just wanted to improve any aspect of your surfing, then it could help...... if it's the real thing.If you are at all interested then read up on Richard Bandler. Fuckin' genius. FACT!How do I know any of this? Because I'm trained and certified in NLP, and NOT a member of any religious or quasi religious movement; and thinking about NLP in those terms is just plain stoopid, and only done by people who don't understand what it is!

Hey Black.... they weren't really insults, just a bit of goading to hopefully stimulate more enquiry on the subject! Wikipedia eh? Hmmm. Who collated the "scientific evidence" mentioned above? If it exists, who paid for the research into said evidence?/\ "I'd like to see the science on that"...... Regardless of peoples personal opinions on what they think "it" "is", a lot of people have derived great benefit from it. That's got to be a good thing right?

We are just round the corner, pretty much from each other as far as I know, maybe we should have a good discussion over a beer. I am interested in the subject (whatever that is??) and have concluded that something helpful doesn't have to be provable. Who knows, we might come up with a better version!! Sorry I just broke my word, I posted again....

Funny....reading through this post and an add for NLP courses pops up. Is this like a scientology thing or something? Tom Cruise is in me bloody computer!!!

To be fair it probably would have some advantages to top level athletes. My old neighbour did some training for the \northern Ireland shooting team (The Irony!). During his training he was told to visualise the bullets munching the clays like in pac-man.....far out. But I guess it works.

As for the average jo I don't believe they will take the time to do the course purely to improve surfing. Thats what mates sitting in the chanel are for HOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooot!!!! Things can be overanalysed too I reckon

So, let me get this straight.... You base your verdict that NLP is a glorified placebo on "the fact that the placebo effect is real and most importantly documented, unlike your mind coaching"? How does that work then? From that statement I'm really not sure if you're for or against NLP? Are you saying that NLP is better than a placebo, as it is "glorified"? How does NLP get "glorified" into something else, from a placebo effect? (It's not my "mind coaching" by the way).