There has been a fair amount of speculation that John was considering divorcing Yoko - in fact some believe this was the disturbing comment John made at the studio that Jack Douglas was so weirded out by.

I've been thinking about this and find it hard to believe because in all his final interviews John was so up about his marriage, Sean, music, etc. - I've read and/or listened to just about all of them and he just doesn't sound like a 40 year old guy about to leave his wife.

What I do think was going to happen was John was going to reunite with Paul - at least to write together - and possibly all three ex-Beatles - for some sort of reunion - not a full blown reassemblage but getting back together to see what it might be like.

I believe this because of John's comments and becuase of the court document he filed saying that he was going to reunite with the Beatles in early 1981 (this is from the Peter Dogget book and seems well documented).

I believe Yoko was going to sabotage this reunion - as she did back in the 70's when John was living in Greenwich Village with May Pang and he was going to start working with Paul again. Listen to #9 Dream (Walls And Bridges) "Dream, dream, dream away - there's magic in the air - I believe, yes I believe, what more can I say?" that line clearly rescinds the "I don't believe in Beatles - the dream is over" lines from God.

So I think John's comments in the studio that night were more about getting Yoko out of the way of de-railing a reunion and/or working relationship with Paul - perhaps that he wasn't going to let her insecurity screw up his career any longer.

Total specualtion but that's what we do here. Open to comment agreeing, disagreeing or adding other thoughts.

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21 July 20103.05pm

MrBig

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I really don't think so. Towards the end of John's life, yes they did seem somewhat distant but they still "loved" each other too much to get a divorce. Maybe if John lived into the late 90's they would have been divorced or something I'm not sure.

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21 July 20105.18pm

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I think John loved Yoko too much to divorce her, just look at his lost weekend when he called her for hours every day asking to come home. Plus that would mean fighting for custody of Sean, who he would see less if they got a divorce. I do agree that John would have eventually made some sort of an effort to reunite with the Beatles or at least Paul, but I don't think that Yoko would have really gotten in the way.

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21 July 201010.54pm

Von Bontee

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robert said:

So I think John's comments in the studio that night were more about getting Yoko out of the way of de-railing a reunion and/or working relationship with Paul - perhaps that he wasn't going to let her insecurity screw up his career any longer.

Total specualtion but that's what we do here. Open to comment agreeing, disagreeing or adding other thoughts.

Really, this is most unfair and a bit absurd. Have you ever heard "Jealous Guy" or "I'm Losing You"? John was far more insecure than Yoko, and he'd be the first to admit it. And he was perfectly able of potentially screwing up his own career by coking and boozing it up with Harry Nillsson, recording bland rock 'n roll covers and generally making an ass of himself in Los Angeles.

Aside from that, I have no opinion one way or another or care to speculate about any of that stuff. But this Peter Doggett stuff about a plan to reunite in 1981 - what's this about? I've never heard anything about this, can you enlighten me?

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22 July 20101.18pm

Joe

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I'm doubtful that there were ever real plans for a reunion (though I haven't read the Peter Doggett book yet). In his 1980 Rolling Stone interview (published in full book form as All We Are Saying by David Sheff, and well worth buying) John was pretty scathing about George, saying he got little more than a passing mention in the I Me Mine book. He also repeatedly expresses how bored he is talking about The Beatles' break-up and the possibility of a reunion, which he was constantly asked about by journalists and the public.

All Those Years Ago was originally written for Ringo to sing, but he didn't like the range or the lyrics. I'm not sure if they were anti-Lennon words or not – AFAIK nobody's ever published them.

I've heard about this court document before. It was because Apple Corps was trying to block a stage production called Beatlemania. Lennon submitted an affidavit in November 1980 saying "I and the three other former Beatles have plans to stage a reunion concert", although this wasn't made public until judges awarded Apple $10.5m in damages in 1986.

The concert was supposedly to form the finale for the The Long And Winding Road, a documentary by Neil Aspinall that eventually became Anthology. Perjury risks aside, I've always suspected that this was bluster on Lennon's part as a way of stopping Beatlemania from going ahead, and there was no substance to it. I've never heard any of the other three say they were planning to reform – wouldn't somebody have said something if there had been actual plans?

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22 July 20106.38pm

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robert said:

I've been thinking about this and find it hard to believe because in all his final interviews John was so up about his marriage, Sean, music, etc. - I've read and/or listened to just about all of them and he just doesn't sound like a 40 year old guy about to leave his wife.

I believe Yoko was going to sabotage this reunion.......

So I think John's comments in the studio that night were more about getting Yoko out of the way of de-railing a reunion and/or working relationship with Paul - perhaps that he wasn't going to let her insecurity screw up his career any longer.

Joe said:

I'm doubtful that there were ever real plans for a reunion (though I haven't read the Peter Doggett book yet). I've never heard any of the other three say they were planning to reform – wouldn't somebody have said something if there had been actual plans?

I agree that a divorce was not imminent. Like Joe, I also feel that if there was a reunion planned (Oh how I wanted this before John died!!!) one of the other 3 would have mentioned it.

Even if I am wrong and a reunion WAS in the works, I don’t want to know about it. Because then I would be put in prison for visiting Mark David Chapman and kicking him square in the nuts until he breathed his last.

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23 July 201012.22am

Von Bontee

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Heh, I suspect that any reunion would've been one of the biggest anticlimaxes in history! But only because I'm negative that way.

One day, a tape-op got a tape on backwards, he went to play it, and it was all "Neeeradno-undowarrroom" and it was "Wow! Sounds Indian!"
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23 July 201012.40am

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Are the rumors of their possible divorce based on Fred Seaman's telling of events, or are there other accounts? And is it more than just the fact that they couldn't work together in the studio? It's pretty confusing.

Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo! So little time! So much to know!

23 July 20101.09am

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I don't know. It seems to me that they went through a lot to be together to have their love gone or break up in 10 years, especially with a five-year-old child. But then again, we will never know.

Now having a Beatle reunion, I dunno, I'm happy to what they did. But what it truly breaks my heart is that John was ready to go back. I must admit after reading the article of John feeling so vigorous and ready to go back to music to have his life ended. *sobs*

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16 October 201012.31pm

mr. Sun king coming together

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3 things;
1. Didn't Yoko fall in love with a Assistant when John was in Bermuda
2. Yoko would have sabotaged a reunion People only bought Half John Half Yoko albums because of John. Her Music on Double Fantasy would be great instrumentals but her voice ruins it
3. Lennon wouldn't have lied in an affidavit
His lawyer wouldn't let him

As if it matters how a man falls down.'

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28 October 20101.08am

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I heard the reverse that Yoko was contemplating divorce but even those rumors seem to come out of thin air.

29 October 201010.46am

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If anyone doubts there was going to be a Beatles reunion in 1981, centered around Ringo's next album, you should listen to the Jack Douglas interview at this website:

in terms of divorce, I am fairly convinced based on interviews, etc, that something was amiss in the house of Lennon. It may very well have been that Yoko was "stepping out" on John - I do recall an interview with someone (could be Bob Gruen) saying he was visiting Yoko shorlty after John's death and Fred Seaman came out in a bathrobe. Yoko was semi-flustered.

in terms of divorce, I am fairly convinced based on interviews, etc, that something was amiss in the house of Lennon. It may very well have been that Yoko was "stepping out" on John - I do recall an interview with someone (could be Bob Gruen) saying he was visiting Yoko shorlty after John's death and Fred Seaman came out in a bathrobe. Yoko was semi-flustered.

oh well.

A bathrobe?

I think someone is stealing from another fairly-well-known story....

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11 February 20111.40am

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Has anybody read the book Magical Mystery Tour by Tony Bramwell (he grew up with the Beatles, a few years younger than George and worked for EMI and Brian Epstein personally)? His book talked of John and Yoko having problems near the end of John's life - that John had called Mimi and told her he wanted to come back to England (whether that was with or without Yoko, wasn't said). It just sounds odd to me...

And so do these lyrics from Double Fantasy's "Watching The Wheels": Ah, people asking questions lost in confusion
Well I tell them there's no problem, only solutions
Well they shake their heads and they Look At Me as if I've lost my mind
I tell them there's no hurryI'm just sitting here doing time

Just seems interesting because "doing time" is so closely associated with being in prison.

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11 February 20113.44am

mithveaen

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HerMajestyRS said:

I'm just sitting here doing time

Just seems interesting because "doing time" is so closely associated with being in prison.

Umb.. that's interesting.. although I don't think he was doing time in prison.... he was more like "I'm just here". But what you say is quite interesting...

Here comes the sun….. Scoobie-doobie……

Something in the way she moves…..attracts me like a cauliflower…

Bop. Bop, cat bop. Go, Johnny, Go.

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11 February 20114.13am

StarWisher

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mithveaen said:

HerMajestyRS said:

I'm just sitting here doing time

Just seems interesting because "doing time" is so closely associated with being in prison.

Umb.. that's interesting.. although I don't think he was doing time in prison…. he was more like "I'm just here". But what you say is quite interesting…

Not to discredit his raising Sean, but I'm sure after 5 years of tending to someone else's needs and being a house-husband, (probably neither of which he had ever done before) he may have felt imprisoned in his home or in his mind. He really wanted to get back out there and record.

To answer the original question, I don't know. The Lennon Legacy and Legend has colored that period of time for better or worse. In Woman, he is calling her the meaning of success. Can I go off topic for a moment?: "Awwwwwwww!" but then there are songs like Just Like Starting Over, which implies to me that there was maybe something going on.

However, it's a fact of life, every relationship has its peaks and valleys. I can imagine with two strong personalities like John and Yoko, they may have clashed often, but respected each other's point of view as well. I don't know if John and Yoko were going to divorce right then, but after consulting my Magic 8 Ball, my sources say no.

"We are all a little weird and life's a little weird, and when we find someone whose weirdness is compatible with ours, we join up with them and fall in mutual weirdness and call it love." — Dr. Seuss

11 February 201111.24am

Joe

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It's probably best left for another thread, but that Tony Bramwell book really is a load of crap. The woman who ghostwrote it seems to have left in a whole heap of inaccuracies (I noted these down while I was reading it but never got round to writing a review), and the endless Yoko-bashing and womanising (it's full of self-satisfied remarks like "Mick and Keith's house was always full of girls from the local collage. I ended up sleeping with half of them, but it would have been rude not to") gets really boring very quickly. There are some interesting recollections in there but a whole load of hearsay too. He also takes credit for some things that didn't happen (eg he claims that, in Many Years From Now, Paul McCartney says he coined the word 'heavy' in the hippy sense, which isn't what the book says at all). Interesting that he's barely mentioned in any Beatles books, and just once - by Neil Aspinall - in Anthology.

I had some email correspondence with him a while ago, and it seems he can barely write. I suspect it was all the work of Rosemary Kingsland, the ghostwriter, though I may have underestimated him a little.

On the subject of John's divorce, though, I think Peter Doggett's You Never Give Me Your Money - a far more reliable book - says Yoko was planning to leave him until the plans for Double Fantasy took shape, after which she realised she could improve her lot if she stayed a little longer. May be true, who knows?

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11 February 20115.13pm

GniknuS

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From listening to John's last interviews, it seems as though Yoko would spend her days locked away in her office doing whatever she was doing and John wouldn't see her for hours or sometimes the entire day. So from that and listening to some of his tracks on Double Fantasy like I'm Losing You, I wouldn't really be surprised if John felt as though the relationship were on the rocks, but again that's pure speculation that no one, save Yoko and maybe Elliot Mintz, knows the answer to.

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18 April 20119.36pm

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StarWisher said:

Just Like Starting Over, which implies to me that there was maybe something going on.

First off, I am completely sure that he was used to being catered to by Cynthia. Yoko, in a way, helped mature him. She wouldn't deal with the wife beating.

But the song, form what I have read, was referring to the fact that he was coming out of his five year break from music. He was starting over.

And I kind of think it's bull whenever someone says that Yoko broke up the Beatles. They just couldn't fit all of their egos into one room anymore. Even if they were divorcing, would it matter? Not to be rude, but he's dead. And we really can't change anything. And please, if anyone says that I don't like John just becuase I said this, please be realistic. It's the truth.

I don't think that they were going to divorce, though. I know that John got bored of things (yes, marriage definitely counted) very quickly. But, because of his love for Sean and finally seeing what a disappointment he was for Julian, he would try to make it work out.

I salute the lady who screamed "I love you Paul!" at a tribute band's concert.

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