Tead Off wrote:For me, the best gao shan are not roasted but green. The fruitiness and aroma is all there in the leaf and the oxidation process will bring it forth. There is nothing wrong with the roasted teas, but like dancong teas, the best ones are not roasted or highly oxidized.

I am a beginner, so the "roasting" is an assumption on my part. Those teas I am talking about are not roasted like yancha. They are green, but not as green as the very green ones. So maybe it is oxydation. I do not know. They have all the gamut of aroma and flavor. First few steeps taste vegetal, next ones floral, then the stone fruitiness shows up, usually around 4th or 5th steep, then around 9th steep it is yet another taste, maybe more woody.

I do not like very green gao shan cha and I was able to narrow down my dislike to the Chin Shin varietal, which unfortunately seems widespread.Which means there are a lot of Taiwanese teas I will not like.

brunogm, I've sampled several Thai teas from "cultivars" the same as some Taiwanese teas. For most, I disliked the heavy vegetal flavor, but unlike you never got into so many infusions to take the tea past that. How are you preparing your tea? Ratio of tea to water etc. Thanks.

My favorite tea is one of those Thai/Taiwan teas that was given a healthy, significant amount of oxidation. By favorite, I mean a tea that I drink daily (2 - 4 cups).True Taiwanese tea that I have enjoyed the most is Spring lishan, & would be a favorite like lobster is to eat--not for regular use but indeed highly memorable etc.

Tead Off wrote:For me, the best gao shan are not roasted but green. The fruitiness and aroma is all there in the leaf and the oxidation process will bring it forth. There is nothing wrong with the roasted teas, but like dancong teas, the best ones are not roasted or highly oxidized.

I am a beginner, so the "roasting" is an assumption on my part. Those teas I am talking about are not roasted like yancha. They are green, but not as green as the very green ones. So maybe it is oxydation. I do not know. They have all the gamut of aroma and flavor. First few steeps taste vegetal, next ones floral, then the stone fruitiness shows up, usually around 4th or 5th steep, then around 9th steep it is yet another taste, maybe more woody.

I do not like very green gao shan cha and I was able to narrow down my dislike to the Chin Shin varietal, which unfortunately seems widespread.Which means there are a lot of Taiwanese teas I will not like.

Please tell me what your brewing parameters would be if you were to brew a green style Gao Shan? (brewing vessel type & size, amount of dry leaf, type of water, temperature of water, and infusion time). If you can give me all of this info I can understand a little more about how your tea is possibly coming out based on how YOU brew so I would greatly appreciate this information.

Just to be clear, I wasn't talking about heavily oxidized Taiwanese high mountain teas. I'm just talking about tea that has a slightly higher level of oxidation relative to the most vegetal examples of the genre. It may still not create a visible "red edge", but it's perceptible in the taste and aroma of the tea.

I still prefer gaoshan teas that are just shy of neon green, and that's one reason why I often actually prefer the tea from seasons when the weather / harvest isn't quite as good, because it seems like those are the seasons when farmers will oxidize the leaf a little more. While I appreciate that there are some objective measures of good tea, the "best" tea for me is the one which tastes best to me.

wyardley wrote:Just to be clear, I wasn't talking about heavily oxidized Taiwanese high mountain teas. I'm just talking about tea that has a slightly higher level of oxidation relative to the most vegetal examples of the genre. It may still not create a visible "red edge", but it's perceptible in the taste and aroma of the tea.

I still prefer gaoshan teas that are just shy of neon green, and that's one reason why I often actually prefer the tea from seasons when the weather / harvest isn't quite as good, because it seems like those are the seasons when farmers will oxidize the leaf a little more. While I appreciate that there are some objective measures of good tea, the "best" tea for me is the one which tastes best to me.

I've often tried to compare the spring and winter harvests of the same tea. I have asked Taiwanese tea people which one is the best? I have gotten different replies. Sometimes I think winter is better but then I move onto a spring, and I also fall in love. They both probably have their own merits and a lot depends on the weather.

I also favor slightly oxidized gaoshan but have had some lovely higher oxidized teas, too. It probably depends in whose hands the tea is put through its processing. I'm not a great fan of roasted teas in general but there are exceptions.

there's definitely a seasonal difference, and I like both the spring and the winter versions of Ali Shan. Winter is mellower, warmer, a little richer; spring is more delicate, more floral, and a little more tempermental.

ethan wrote: I've sampled several Thai teas from "cultivars" the same as some Taiwanese teas. For most, I disliked the heavy vegetal flavor, but unlike you never got into so many infusions to take the tea past that.How are you preparing your tea? Ratio of tea to water etc.

Ethan,

My message was not clear, because the teas I was describing were the "not too green" gao shan cha, not the Thai oolongs. With these gao shan cha, I get up to 14 cups I like. I could probably get more, but I never tried, because after 14 cups I am so filled with tea I cannot drink any more without exploding.

With the Thai oolongs I get about 10 cups I like, so less cups than the gao shan, and the separation in flavor between steeps is not as clearly marked. I gather this indicates that as Tead Off said, the Thai tea are not as high quality as my gao shan.The difference is that the Thai teas are about 10 €/100 gram, so I am finding them great value for money, "every day" teas. The gao shan are more than 100 €/100 grams, so they are not for every day.In my mind, these are too different niches, one for the occasionnal threat, the other for every day drinking.

I do not know what is this heavy vegetal flavor you are referring to. Maybe it is this particular taste I found also in Japanese tea. I decrease it by adjusting brewing parameters.

My brewing parameters vary from tea to tea.For those Thai teas, my optimum was around 5 grams in 120 ml, starting at 90°C, with steeps increasing progressively from 30 seconds to 1 minute.So I guess I am under packing gaiwan and under brewing those teas, by most standards.

ImmortaliTEA wrote:Please tell me what your brewing parameters would be if you were to brew a green style Gao Shan? (brewing vessel type & size, amount of dry leaf, type of water, temperature of water, and infusion time). If you can give me all of this info I can understand a little more about how your tea is possibly coming out based on how YOU brew so I would greatly appreciate this information.

When I test teas I always use the same brewing parameters the first time. In the case of the gao shan I did not like, I did not try other parameter variations, because I decided it was not worth it since I disliked the teas.

My standard testing parameters:

- 120 ml gaiwan (always the same gaiwan for all teas)- Volvic water- 5 grams of leaf- water starts at 95°C- steeps start at 30 seconds and each successive steep increases 10 seconds.

This is for the first test, because afterwards, I tend to increase tea/water ratio and use smaller vessels. My personal preference is in the area of 8 grams / 100 ml, and Volvic water (for oolongs).

etorix, Upton tea & a few other vendors have a couple of thai teas, but the thai teas are overpriced & the descriptions of the tea are way off (IMHO). I am in thailand now hoping to return w/ a broad range of tea. (I drink the only one that I liked everyday, but I think I should be able to find more than one.) PM me in March if you haven't had success w/ finding samples.

Actually Da Yu Ling is a Li Shan tea, it is rare and grown high, I bought this year from t oolong, one veteran farm and one 105k. I I also tried Houde`s Da yu lings. I think taiwanese oolong a whole category of oolongs, they have a certain style, modern high mountain oolongs resemble green teas, they are very lightly oxidized. I think Li SHan and Shan lin Xi are my favourites, Da Yu Ling and Long Feng Xia.

SIlentChaos on this board is based in TW and brought me a nice number of samples of TW gaoshan when he visited HK, as well as some aged oolong. Drinking some good aged DongDing right now and it is very calming.

I haven't tried tea from all of the high mountain villages yet, but the spring SLX I tried this year knocked my socks off. I've never experienced such a wide range of flavors in any other tea.