The Nest Learning Thermostat - Good or Not So Much? - Home Energy Pros2015-08-02T20:41:00Zhttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/forum/topics/the-nest-learning-thermostat-good-or-not-so-much?id=6069565%3ATopic%3A85915&feed=yes&xn_auth=noThe Nest seems to have decent…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2012-08-17:6069565:Comment:914862012-08-17T22:54:46.225ZBob Blanchettehttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/BobBlanchette
<p>The Nest seems to have decent internals, now if they could only get the software finished.</p>
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<p>The Nest seems to have decent internals, now if they could only get the software finished.</p>
<p></p> A friend showed me an interes…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2012-08-17:6069565:Comment:915492012-08-17T00:05:09.168ZJames Whitehttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/JamesWhite
<p>A friend showed me an interesting site that describes what is inside the Nest thermost. <a href="http://www.sparkfun.com/tutorials/334" target="_blank">Peak inside the Nest.</a></p>
<p>A friend showed me an interesting site that describes what is inside the Nest thermost. <a href="http://www.sparkfun.com/tutorials/334" target="_blank">Peak inside the Nest.</a></p> Why not make a a setting for…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2012-07-24:6069565:Comment:897402012-07-24T00:25:11.718ZBob Blanchettehttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/BobBlanchette
<p>Why not make a a setting for "allow compressor to operate with aux heat". It can be set to shut down or enable the compressor depending if the customer has a DF setup. It would be a simple setting that could be done with a software update. Most thermostats in the same price range of the Nest have this capability.</p>
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<p>Most DF setups have a separate FF module designed to work with a standard heat pump stat (electronics or mechanical). Why won't the Nest work with the FF kit?</p>
<p>Why not make a a setting for "allow compressor to operate with aux heat". It can be set to shut down or enable the compressor depending if the customer has a DF setup. It would be a simple setting that could be done with a software update. Most thermostats in the same price range of the Nest have this capability.</p>
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<p>Most DF setups have a separate FF module designed to work with a standard heat pump stat (electronics or mechanical). Why won't the Nest work with the FF kit?</p> Some background info and then…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2012-07-23:6069565:Comment:895592012-07-23T17:44:48.788ZKate Brinkshttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/KateBrinks
<p><span>Some background info and then the answer at the end, Bob.</span></p>
<p><span>AUX lockout = AUX is not needed when outdoor temp is warm. This cutoff depends on how efficient the system's heat pump is. A user can set an outdoor temperature that they do not want AUX to be used if it is warmer than that. The temp range is xx to yy.</span><br></br><br></br><span>Since the heat pump produces positive heating even when it is colder, when AUX kicks in, it is still a good idea to keep the heat pump…</span></p>
<p><span>Some background info and then the answer at the end, Bob.</span></p>
<p><span>AUX lockout = AUX is not needed when outdoor temp is warm. This cutoff depends on how efficient the system's heat pump is. A user can set an outdoor temperature that they do not want AUX to be used if it is warmer than that. The temp range is xx to yy.</span><br/><br/><span>Since the heat pump produces positive heating even when it is colder, when AUX kicks in, it is still a good idea to keep the heat pump on. So the heat pump does not get turned off just because AUX is on.</span><br/><br/><span>There is another lockout temp that Nest offers called "compressor lockout." This is an outdoor temperature that a user can set: below this temp, only AUX will kick in. The temp range is zz to pp. </span><br/><br/><span>Dual fuel works by not having compressor and alternate heat on at the same time.</span><br/><br/><span>Between AUX lockout and compressor lockout temperatures, compressor and AUX are commanded to run at the same time.</span><br/><br/><span>It is theoretically true that you could set the AUX lockout and compressor lockout temperature to be at exactly the same temperature and have the effect of controlling dual fuel. However, due to some fluctuation in outdoor temp it is not a good idea to have an overlap between these two lockout temperature when they have a strip heat as their alternate source (not dual fuel). So we do not offer temperature overlap between AUX lockout and compressor lockout. This is the reason why we do not offer dual fuel support as is at this point.</span></p> A standard FF kit will shut o…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2012-07-21:6069565:Comment:895312012-07-21T16:43:11.734ZBob Blanchettehttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/BobBlanchette
<p>A standard FF kit will shut off the condenser and turn on the furnace with a call for AUX heat, regardless if the thermostat is giving a Y call or not. Some FF kits have external thermostats to set the balance point where it's more economical to run the furnace. Pull the data sheet/installation instructions for your FF kit off the Honeywell website.</p>
<p>Did your installer have reason to think the Nest wouldn't be compatible with your system? I'm surprised your installer would have not…</p>
<p>A standard FF kit will shut off the condenser and turn on the furnace with a call for AUX heat, regardless if the thermostat is giving a Y call or not. Some FF kits have external thermostats to set the balance point where it's more economical to run the furnace. Pull the data sheet/installation instructions for your FF kit off the Honeywell website.</p>
<p>Did your installer have reason to think the Nest wouldn't be compatible with your system? I'm surprised your installer would have not used the DF capability built into most of the newer Honeywell stats instead of adding a separate FF kit. Most stats over $100 have DF capability built in, no separate FF kit required.</p>
<p>In Oklahoma gas prices are so cheap (40 cents per therm) that running a heat pump makes no sense unless you have an all electric house. Our local gas company builds most of the charges into the $27/mo meter fee. So for us it's either make your home all electric, or have as many gas appliances as possible. Most homeowners with DF setups give up on the heat pump once they feel the warmth of the gas heat.</p> I bought my Nest in October l…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2012-07-21:6069565:Comment:894822012-07-21T14:43:57.422ZJohn Nicholashttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/JohnNicholas
<p>I bought my Nest in October last year. Then changed HVAC in late January. I now have paid for the Nest and can't use it. (It sits in the original packing.) I have paid for the Honeywell, which I don't like. I have looked at the Ecobee since you put it up in this thread. I suppose I could go buy another. That would be 750 in 'stats. </p>
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<p>So I'm going slow and asking lots of questions.</p>
<p>I bought my Nest in October last year. Then changed HVAC in late January. I now have paid for the Nest and can't use it. (It sits in the original packing.) I have paid for the Honeywell, which I don't like. I have looked at the Ecobee since you put it up in this thread. I suppose I could go buy another. That would be 750 in 'stats. </p>
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<p>So I'm going slow and asking lots of questions.</p> I don't see why your system w…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2012-07-21:6069565:Comment:895302012-07-21T11:57:38.194ZBob Blanchettehttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/BobBlanchette
<p>I don't see why your system wouldn't work, with a Nest, especially if you currently have a conventional heap pump stat. Nest says "not compatible" to cover their behinds because the typical homeowner has no business trying to figure out how their system is wired up. I'm not sure which heat pump stat you have, check the literature on Honeywell web site to see if everything is compatible. If it's too technical have a pro come look at your system. FF kits are complicated even for some…</p>
<p>I don't see why your system wouldn't work, with a Nest, especially if you currently have a conventional heap pump stat. Nest says "not compatible" to cover their behinds because the typical homeowner has no business trying to figure out how their system is wired up. I'm not sure which heat pump stat you have, check the literature on Honeywell web site to see if everything is compatible. If it's too technical have a pro come look at your system. FF kits are complicated even for some pro's.</p>
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<p>What is it you are looking for in the Nest that the Ecobee doesn't offer? The Ecobee has DF capability built in as well as a ton of other advanced settings. The only things the ecobee doesn't have are auto learn (which most disable anyways) and the pretty factor.</p> When I replaced the conv. NG…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2012-07-21:6069565:Comment:895272012-07-21T00:46:05.793ZJohn Nicholashttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/JohnNicholas
<p>When I replaced the conv. NG furnace /ac with DFHP, they installed a Honeywell 'stat and Fossil Fuel Kit.</p>
<p>I am at a loss as to why my nest can't work with that!?!</p>
<p>Should I have to spend another 29 bucks to keep Homeywell lawyers happy?</p>
<p>When I replaced the conv. NG furnace /ac with DFHP, they installed a Honeywell 'stat and Fossil Fuel Kit.</p>
<p>I am at a loss as to why my nest can't work with that!?!</p>
<p>Should I have to spend another 29 bucks to keep Homeywell lawyers happy?</p> "crappy equipment" is what is…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2012-07-20:6069565:Comment:895252012-07-20T23:24:06.029ZBob Blanchettehttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/BobBlanchette
<p>"crappy equipment" is what is installed on most homes. Rarely do I even see VS stuff installed (1 out of 10) much less communicating (1 out of 50). Oddly about 1 out of 5 go for the 90%+ furnaces even though we are in a primarily cooling climate. IMHO the money would have been much better spent getting a VS 80% furnace vs. a 90% PSC furnace. Natural gas is currently 0.40 per therm in our area.</p>
<p>Communicating equipment is nice but it's cost isn't justified in most areas of the country.…</p>
<p>"crappy equipment" is what is installed on most homes. Rarely do I even see VS stuff installed (1 out of 10) much less communicating (1 out of 50). Oddly about 1 out of 5 go for the 90%+ furnaces even though we are in a primarily cooling climate. IMHO the money would have been much better spent getting a VS 80% furnace vs. a 90% PSC furnace. Natural gas is currently 0.40 per therm in our area.</p>
<p>Communicating equipment is nice but it's cost isn't justified in most areas of the country. Of the times I've seen it installed it's almost always 2 stage and sized by the LOW stage. A house needing a 3 tons gets a 5 ton which has a 3 ton low stage. All that high SEER the customer paid for just went out the window.</p> How does the AUX lockout work…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2012-07-20:6069565:Comment:895212012-07-20T22:54:02.286ZBob Blanchettehttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/BobBlanchette
<p>How does the AUX lockout work? Can Nest be set to shut off heat pump when 2nd stage (aka aux heat) is activated? Can Nest be set up to lock out compressor and run 100% aux heat below a certain outdoor temperature? If Nest can be set up to not run AUX and heat pump at the same time, I don't see why it's not compatible with duel fuel.</p>
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<p>How does the AUX lockout work? Can Nest be set to shut off heat pump when 2nd stage (aka aux heat) is activated? Can Nest be set up to lock out compressor and run 100% aux heat below a certain outdoor temperature? If Nest can be set up to not run AUX and heat pump at the same time, I don't see why it's not compatible with duel fuel.</p>
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