FIRST Players be warned this contains information that you find out if you run the adventure, but not if you only play it.

I have having a chat with Deluge and we were talking about Orumar and similar things.

As a player of an elorii character from Entaris, Night of a Thousand Screams provided both heartache and questions.

In the game it is revealed that the Orumar has been destroyed, but what does that mean? In previous documents the Orumar is said to be at the junction of the elemental planes, this suggests that there is only a single Orumar and that all Elorii return to, (exceptions being if there is an Artificial one like at Raven Tindal).

Or does each nation have its own? In which case, only the Entaris Elorii souls will be left without a repository.

Which brings us to Nyal and her dark elorii. These creatures had the talent “Vitality of the Orumar”, suggesting that they too either go into the Orumar (if there is one – not a likely option) or have their own repository/Omumar. What does that mean for other Elorii. If there is only one main Orumar and that is now destroyed, does that mean they the souls will be funneled into Nyal’s orumar? If that is the case, what does that mean for the souls?

Finally, what of the other sister? Lysandra (blessed land book). She is described as the goddess of the green moon. Does that mean there are “Green” Elorii out there? Also John mentioned that in the old 3.5 modules there was a stone carving/painting of a green figure standing in front of Umor. People assumed it was Yig or Saluwe. What if it was Lysandra?

Questions, Questions, Questions. I think the player that stated a while ago that he was disappointed there was no in game development of the Elorii has gotten his wish <Grin>

Sure, after a decade the Elorii have finally been made the target of catastrophe. How "engaging." Now we can find out that Belisarda is evil, that Elonbe is the power center of the Nyalekene, and that the players are the "defectives" who were exiled into the wider world in the hope that it would corrupt them into accepting their greater mission.

Funny thing: this mod is the first time the PC's get a look at the Eloran quarter of Seremas. I did take me a while to figure out what was missing from the Seremasi soft points from the previous campaign. What was missing from Eldest Sons and it's amusing travelogue of Eloran restaurants and bars and tourist destinations.

Oh right, the Eloran features of the Eloran city!

Which reminds me: there was just a BI in Seremas. Wow. That's what, the third? That's astounding. And yet...I bet their was nothing actually Eloran about that BI. Oh, that's not true. A peace pact collapsed because of some rules-lawyering on the part of a Gar Warlord involving the suspected survival of Melirios.

I'll admit I'm kind of confused on that score, but the important thing is that the Elorii can be implicated for being why somehow responsible for the Gar's opportunism as a means of introducing them as a formal threat. Because Arcanis needs one more random marauding army of culturally vacuous "barbarians."

I'm sorry, that's unnecessarily sarcastic. When the Gar sourcebook is announced I'm sure it'll be full of mind-bending implications and plot hooks. The first Sstheric book certainly was, I'm sure the second will live up to that reputation.

I've known a lot of Val; it's always charming to hear them sneer that the Elorii should have exterminated the Gar when they had the chance like the Val would have. This is what "the Elorii" -there's that enthusiasm for collective punishment again- deserve for failing to act like everyone else.

Ah, and wallow in that new lore. It is good to know the central tenets of Belisarda -oh wait, sorry.

I mean the history of the Eloran natio- right right, mea culpa.

No no, I got it it's the activities of a major Eloran NPC who is actually representative of the culture unlike that dicksheath Xercel^ -err, whoops.

Rather, it is good to have some vague implications of some great sin of the Ardakene. You'll notice it's "The Ardakene" as though what will be revealed will end up being the collective decision of all Ardakene. Well, that's what they get for not being generic.

I'm sure this is going big places, I'm confident the upcoming destruction of various Orumars will finally drive the Elorii into groveling at the feet of the Human Pantheon as a wandering nation of destitutes looking to shelter their wretched, debased "goddess" with an offer to trade her enslavement for their protection.

I've heard Hurrian is a bachelor, but I suspect Belisarda won't be married into the Pantheon due to her childen's incompatible spiritual nature. At least until the other Orumar are sacrificed into the Cauldron and that changes.

Sounds like high drama to me, sounds like "development" of the Elorii well on track.

Downside? "That guy" will have to get the news second hand because there are no tables. There are no tables of Arcanis local to Portland. Nobody is organizing, nobody is running, nobody* is clamoring to play, and nobody has bothered to update their heroes to Tier 3.

There is content and yet there is no Arcanis. And putting my ocean of suppurating, seething frustration aside for a moment the implications of their being numerous Orumar, that they can be destroyed (and reciprocally created), of the Lysandra/Belisarda/Nyal "Three-Sister" triumvirate etc etc etc are all fairly engaging.

But make no mistake: it's not enough. Arcanis is withering. There aren't enough players to populate a table, nevermind actual crucial support personnel.

Lastly: Zac Caslar.

See that display name? That's short for Zac Caslar.

He, I, am probably "that guy," Dean.

I don't make the cons so much these days, but it'll be funny to sit down at a table some time and notice when "Taffy" or "theVault" or the rest turns pale because suddenly I'm a lot more real than just "that guy" who complained that the largest non-human faction in both campaigns was being ignored.

Thanks for calling me out.

*in this use not literally true^can't wait for him to be vindicated.

_________________Vaize the Flamesong; disciple of Anaphylaxia, servant of Belisarda.D'serrat Val'Mordane; Knight Errant and Veteran of the Fifth and Sixth Crusades of Light.Denevir the Gladiator; aka the Red Widow, the Dread Gorehorn, the Sicarite Seven Slayer!

The really short synopsis is that we've been given a lot of new mysteries to poke at, and not much in the way of concrete answers.

On the issue of what is the (an?) Ourumar. Like you I believed there was ONE. But ever since we traveled to Ravan Tindal there have been people who have questioned that party line. What if each enclave has their own Ouremar? That would explain why Malfelens almost always keep getting reincarnated as Malfelens. It's possible that Elorii souls could go to the nearest Ouremar. That would also help explain the remnant elorii population still held as slaves in Ssethregore.

I was never a big fan of these theories pre Night of Screams. Now OOC I am willing to reconsider.

The "Nayalekeen" elorii are the other big WTF!!??!! That came out of Night of 1000 Screams. Has there always been this hidden enclave somewhere? Or has another enclave been corrupted and changed?

I do not like the idea that the Nayalekeen have always been around on Onara and we've never heard of them. Perhaps my preferences don't count for much, but until I see evidence to the contrary I am going to assume they either come from another continent/world or are a corrupted group. If you believecSskoreth is back and the Paragon of Nayal then the corruption and transformation of the remnant population of elorii in Ssethregore jumps to the top of the list for suspects as the origin of the Nayalekeen. I've also heard at least one person suggest Nayal could be the skinless lady.

Stay tuned. One of the Origin Hard points (and to a lesser extent the BI) directly deals with the aftermath of Night of Screams.

_________________Eric Gorman

AKA Ambassador Tukufu, man of letters, tomb raider and Master Sword Sage. . . and Sir Szymon val'Holryn, Order of the PhoenixFormerly Sir Jaeger val'Holryn. Weilder of the Holy Avenger: Thonanos. Gave his soul to help free King Noen

I sure enjoyed both the mod and this read. Although I do not sympathize with much of that sarcasm, I do share the frustrations felt due to lack of activity in one's local area.

That being said, the possibility of Ourumar in multiple locations/enclaves is both frightening and intriguing.

Also, Nayalekens. Their prospect troubles me. Not only does this solidify that there are several Ourumar in different locations (Ravan Tindal adds even more onto this), but also could imply they've been around a lot longer than we think, which also adds to the three-sisters and their length of time on Onara (as well as influence).

I eager seek more. But Henry is a vicious, VICIOUS, tease ...

_________________Talendos, the Shadow Raven2.7 Expert, Soldier of Retribution, Assassin"When you do something right, it's as if you didn't do it at all ..."

The discussion about each enclave having it's own Orumar, and the one at Ravan'Tindal has got me thinking about something. In Ravan'Tindal any PC (Elorii or not) who died went through the preternatural "Orumar", and got a cert for it. We are told human souls go to the Cauldron, Elorii souls to the Orumar, and ss'ressen souls go to whom ever they worship (Fire Dragon/Kassesgore/Varn/etc). Dwarves souls would go to the Cauldron if it wasn't for the Curse so they are pulled into Soul Stones instead. If the Ravan'Tindal's "Orumar" could absorb any species' soul, this could mean all souls have common traits. With the release of the Altherian Clockwork warrior, we know human souls can go into Soul Stones. And I recall an old module where an Elorii was looking for their father's/grandfather's soul, that was trapped in a gem. Maybe that is one reason Elorii don't allow other races closer to the centre of their city. Perhaps human souls would then be drawn into their enclave's Orumar if they were living too close to it (like attuning to the Orumar). Or if they died around it.

The issue of souls is a deep mystery of the Arcanis Universe. It seems clear that a deity (or group of deities) can "fence off" a collection of souls in a "Cauldron" or Ouremar or Kassegore's "Belly." But where do they all originate from? What about a third generation Undir "elementalist/shaman" who has never been especially close to PoM teachings. Where did his or her soul come from? Or human populations before the coming of the PoM?

Yes. If each enclave has its own Ouremar then it stands to reason that souls waiting to be reborn were destroyed at Seremas

_________________Eric Gorman

AKA Ambassador Tukufu, man of letters, tomb raider and Master Sword Sage. . . and Sir Szymon val'Holryn, Order of the PhoenixFormerly Sir Jaeger val'Holryn. Weilder of the Holy Avenger: Thonanos. Gave his soul to help free King Noen

The wrong kind of soul doesn't fit in through the wrong kind of passage. The human pantheon claims human souls (not dwarven, notably) apparently irrespective of time or place or culture -though it would in interesting to hear what the Pengik* have to say about their own cycle of rebirth pre-dating the human pantheon as it does.

Similarly if the Orumar were merely a soul trap the one from Seremas would have had a surplus of humans in it from when the attacking Coryani and Altherian fleets were destroyed.

It follows that Kassegore knows his own and that the worshippers of the Varn may be able to brand or alter souls sufficiently as to redirect them into the desired maws.

On the topic of the destroyed Orumar we've only got Melirios's words -likely backed by hard experience- that the souls within were 'lost." If the containment was essentially physical why would they not drift loose until meeting whatever fate or other Orumar? Given the enduring coherency of eloran souls it's likely the mechanisms of their transmission to rebirth are unusually specific and closed off from whatever the usual means would be.

There are no apparent Eloran taboos about death in places far away from a given Orumar so physical distance probably isn't important. Taken as true that suggests that dead elorii don't "ground out" like electricity through the path of least resistance into the nearest Orumar and perhaps are instead somewhat bound to a given soul well.

AFAIK none of the soul drained Berokene from Ravin'Tindal reincarnated back onto the mainland, after all, and as has been speculated elorii from Malfea might only rarely transmit into Elonbe or Entaras.

IMO the mechanics of the eloran race should be considered through the lens of what the Sstherics would have considered most useful; very possibly having them spiritually segregate into separate "armies" might have been convenient.

The destruction of the Seremasi Orumar also points out that because such things can be destroyed they can also likely be built and are probably portable. Long-term having an army of immortals who conceivably only grow in power based in a specific theater of operations and requiring nothing else special to keep their war going could be very useful.

Just plant them and wait for them to either require retrieval of their Orumar to avoid extermination or they'll fight until they win as they have an usually low number of intermediate steps between death and being fit to war again and none of those steps has to involve exterior cultural influences.

*and the Kio. AFAIK the afterlives of Kio are blithely assumed to be similar to what the PoM claims happens.

_________________Vaize the Flamesong; disciple of Anaphylaxia, servant of Belisarda.D'serrat Val'Mordane; Knight Errant and Veteran of the Fifth and Sixth Crusades of Light.Denevir the Gladiator; aka the Red Widow, the Dread Gorehorn, the Sicarite Seven Slayer!

There are no apparent Eloran taboos about death in places far away from a given Orumar so physical distance probably isn't important. Taken as true that suggests that dead elorii don't "ground out" like electricity through the path of least resistance into the nearest Orumar and perhaps are instead somewhat bound to a given soul well

But Laerestri are rare, they are the few Elorii who wished to leave. The normal Elorii stays within their home nation. But this would go with the idea of attunement to an Orumar. Once attuned, when the Elorii dies they return to that specific Orumar. It would explain the Malfean always being born in the Malfea. Henry mentioned that the dwarven enclaves are not genetically different from each other, just culturally different from each other. Solani and Nol Dappens can have children together. But they have to return to the Heartstone of their enclave, the other Heartstones don't work in extending their lives. So there is nothing new to attunement to powerful magic objects.

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Similarly if the Orumar were merely a soul trap the one from Seremas would have had a surplus of humans in it from when the attacking Coryani and Altherian fleets were destroyed.

Again perhaps that is why humans are kept away from the Elorii Quarter. Proximity is the problem. If they die far enough away, no issue, of they are to far away to attune, no issue. I mean the Sermasi created the barrier where the human Quarter ends and the Elorri Quarter starts. We haven't been given a map of the city to compare the distance of the temple to the barrier. But we do know the Human Quarter is at the docks, so at the edge of the city.

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IMO the mechanics of the eloran race should be considered through the lens of what the Sstherics would have considered most useful; very possibly having them spiritually segregate into separate "armies" might have been convenient.

That is a really good point. An Orumar as a tool of war would basically be a "spawn" point for troop training. That is definitely makes it a device that the Ssethregore would create. It would allow them to control the birth rates of their soldiers. Or more specifically it would allow the Ardekene to control those birthrates. That was probably the Ardekene's function in the war machine. Only Ardekene could become Life Wardens and Life Wardens used Elluwe pools to connect to the Orumar for various reasons. "Wild" Elorii (assuming some escaped) wouldn't be able to have children or their children wouldn't have souls. They can't just pull souls from a single mystic pool called "the Orumar" it must come from a specific device controlled by their Ssethric masters.

Taking this one step further perhaps that is "Betrayal" of the Ardekene. The reason the Berokene left and created Ravan'Tindal, and the reason the Ardekene hid the Key to the Towers of Gettlus. They could have disconnected the Elorii from their Orumar, and decided to keep this power for themselves. Keeping the Elorii slaves to this system. We do know Elorii culture hates slavery.

There was an Elorii city that was razed to the ground by humans. It was located in/near Cancari. It was called Salelea. I wonder what happened to it's Orumar? If the Ardekene didn't flee with it, perhaps another power (Nayalekene, or the Silence) was able to steal it after humans finished razing the city. Or even better who else could create a new one but the being who created the Elorii, the being who captured Belisarda in the first place. Ss'korath could have created one, and been using it to constantly be reborn in a new body/cloned body for the past couple of millennia, and used it for his Nayalekene.

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