Freaky strikes again. Another letter in the Grauniad today (Saturday 19). Well not directly about politics but titled "Pop culture is a rich kids' playground". All those well-funded arts and music facilities are seeing the public school mob invading the territory originally occupied by people from the state system. Will this trend mean that the vitality given to pop culture in the post war years by youngsters who had one foot in the street and the other in art school gradually be drained away? No Braine, Sillitoe or Delaney? No Bailey or Terry O'Neill? No Stamp, Caine or Finney? No Beatles or punk? In the end I guess this issue is political.

rockfreak wrote:Freaky strikes again. Another letter in the Grauniad today (Saturday 19). Well not directly about politics but titled "Pop culture is a rich kids' playground". All those well-funded arts and music facilities are seeing the public school mob invading the territory originally occupied by people from the state system. Will this trend mean that the vitality given to pop culture in the post war years by youngsters who had one foot in the street and the other in art school gradually be drained away? No Braine, Sillitoe or Delaney? No Bailey or Terry O'Neill? No Stamp, Caine or Finney? No Beatles or punk? In the end I guess this issue is political.

What bunkum again, freaky. Yes, you, I and other participants in this forum may be ex public school but we all started off common as muck. Just like the beatles a fair number of us have done reasonably well and above our original childhood norm. Given that this country is for everyone who resides here - Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, Moslem, yellow, black, white (and in-between) and everyone not thus included why should we, brought up in the back streets of some godforsaken smoky town be excluded°°°. The only difference is that at least my generation learned discipline, hard work and some patience which is lacking in state schools.

In history it was the rich who fostered the arts - now state school output are invading what was a public school sector but do we complain about them? No way, José. We seem to pay for them, and personally, I reckon we get a raw deal (I am a failed watercolour artist who CH didn't help)

Yes, CH HAS supplied OBs renowned in the classical music scene, in pop music, in painting, pottery, writing and so forth but, given our origins, are we truly INVADING the scene of those we were originally brought up with? Are we any different to them? We did not get silver spoons at birth - just a smack on the arse like any and every other baby.

°°° Did I get that wrong? Were there trees within three miles of where you were brought up - then perhaps you were lucky and didn't have two shoeless feet on the cobbles

“When you arise in the morning think of what a privilege it is to be alive, to think, to enjoy, to love ...”

Replying to Sejintenej - I wasn't really referring to CH, I was talking more about the elite, expensive public schools where these days they seem to have state of the art drama, music and arts centres and coaches to match. Meanwhile, the state schools get trimmed back by comparison. But at least an outcry has got art history back at A-level.

rockfreak wrote:Replying to Sejintenej - I wasn't really referring to CH, I was talking more about the elite, expensive public schools where these days they seem to have state of the art drama, music and arts centres and coaches to match. Meanwhile, the state schools get trimmed back by comparison. But at least an outcry has got art history back at A-level.

Er, CH seems to be doing rather well for drama, music, arts, sports centres, etc nowadays.

rockfreak wrote:Replying to Sejintenej - I wasn't really referring to CH, I was talking more about the elite, expensive public schools where these days they seem to have state of the art drama, music and arts centres and coaches to match. Meanwhile, the state schools get trimmed back by comparison. But at least an outcry has got art history back at A-level.

Two points: by referring to "public schools" the public think of public schools as a group which includes CH. I might be a heathen but with or without Brexit the UK NEEDS industry and exports to survive; sorry but history of Art does not shape up compared to the more scientific subjects. I acknowledge the desperate need also for English, mathematics and languages but history of art??????
I can promise you that an MA in art or history will not get you a semidecent job in museums etc - my daughter found that out at the V & A! It is money down the drain. She now makes shoes which you and I can't afford

“When you arise in the morning think of what a privilege it is to be alive, to think, to enjoy, to love ...”

I would say that all these subjects are important. Science, Engineering, etc are indeed neglected (particularly since Mrs Thatcher came in and we lost our old heavy industries but failed to replace them with new tech, high tech, green tech, etc). But art has always been important for a civilised society since it keeps us in touch with the ideas of the ancient world and was central to the Greeks, Romans and Renaissance cultures. In an age where religion is in retreat, art can satisfy the age-old human need for beauty, wonder, imagination and fantasy and can sometimes convey by symbolism that which cannot easily be spoken.

Avon wrote:I think it is elitist to rail against History of Art; it has been a proven means of getting jolly nice but fundamentally opaque children to university for many years.

Also were it not for HofA, Kate Middleton wouldn't have been able to chase William all the way to St Andrews and get her man.

"opaque" as in thick, uneducatable, or, as the drill sergeant said to thewouldbe officer "when your parents got together to have you they wasted a good f**k"?

As for Kate Middleton perhaps there are a million girls who would regret her getting HofA and therebyWilliam ? (I can't actually see the connection between HofA with any of marriage, the Royals or even William

“When you arise in the morning think of what a privilege it is to be alive, to think, to enjoy, to love ...”

If you'll excuse the literal Droste Effect, I'd like to be opaque about my use of the word opaque, simply to observe that it neatly encapsulates a range of reasons why a tertiary education might not be in order.

Being a matelot and not a pongo, I was never subjected to such coarseness on the parade ground at BRNC.

With regard to the royals, William chose HofA at St Andrews for reasons known only to himself. Kate the Stalker then promptly chose that course.

A Happy Christmas to all our posters, but what a pity that the ladies have quit the site. No Anniefx (my greatest ally, as long as I don't mention religion). What of Katherine (the Vicar's daughter)? Or Angela Woodford, who escaped a fierce evangelical upbringing and married a Stoic. I hope he was a bit younger than Seneca. We miss you, ladies. Has the site perhaps become a bit too robust and laddish? It's not surprising with John Rutley running it. Here's my political prediction for next year (which JR certainly won't agree with). I say that while Gina Miller is afraid to go out the front door today: in twelve months' time Nigel Farrago (and Boris Johnson, and a few other lying Brexiteers) won't be able to go out the door safely. If I was a betting man I'd put money on it. But more importantly, the ladies need to return.

I've composed my own limerick (to save anyone else from doing it):

There was an-ex boarder called Freaky
Whose posts were consistently cheeky.
His fellow OBs said
Don't be a tease,
Your're making us feel quite peaky.

Last edited by rockfreak on Fri Dec 30, 2016 10:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Freaky I'm still here! I've posted quite a bit recently and am doing my best to uphold the memory of Hertford. I don't post much on politics, but if I say that I am actively applying for an Irish passport, so I still have an EU one, it will give you an idea how I feel about at least one result this year!

Katharine Dobson (Hills) 6.14, 1959 - 1965
Don't worry about the world coming to an end today. It's already tomorrow in Australia!

Back to the Politics site, and, guess what? Freaky's done it again. Lead letter in today's Guardian (9 January, "Economics must return to its founding principles"). Regardless of what Avon alleges my notification of my letters in the Guardian are less to do with conceit and more to do with trying to direct privileged public school types to papers other than the Daily Mail and the Daily Telegraph (which has always been mockingly known as the Torygraph by the people who work on it).
In my later years at CH I was lucky enough to have some intelligent, politically aware friends and I date my newspaper reading habits from this time. We were discussing which papers we read and I mentioned that I read the Express (Because my parents took it - and indeed quoted it like Gospel). There was consternation. "Beaverbrook? You must be joking!" And then a stern lecture as to the hidden agenda of newspaper barons; Beaverbrook was as mischievous an old sod as there has been, in a industry that tends to attract them. Then Mr RA ("OK, Alright") Hewitt caught me with my head in the sports pages of one of the populars and suggested I take an interest in serious news and directed me towards the Times. This of course was in the days when it was independent. And I read the Times for many years until Murdoch took it over and I noticed it going gradually rightwards. So I switched to the Guardian and was pleasantly surprised. If it has a political slant it is the sort of social democratic ideology that is still mainstream anywhere else in western Europe. But mostly I read it for its breadth of stories and socio/economic data and analysis. Every week there are a dozen stories in the Guardian and Observer which you think should be on the BBC evening news but which don't make it. Perhaps for the Beeb's fear of upsetting John Whittingdale.

Sounds nonsense to me. Economics is the study of how and why economic/financial things happen it is not a set of principles. OK so many famous people have suggested that if A is done then various forms of B, C and D will follow but in practive there are 1001 other factors which stop that result. I had economics as one of the subjects in my professional exams and it was then confusing. Now ......

rockfreak wrote:Then Mr RA ("OK, Alright") Hewitt caught me with my head in the sports pages of one of the populars and suggested I take an interest in serious news and directed me towards the Times. This of course was in the days when it was independent.

Kit did that to me but the paper available was the Telegraph (and, of course, the famous headline edition of the Daily Mirror). Later I read the Times front page to see to whom I should send congratulations or commiserations.

“When you arise in the morning think of what a privilege it is to be alive, to think, to enjoy, to love ...”