You guys are missing the point. It's not Calderon vs Flynn. It's Calderon and Walker/Knight vs Kanter/Williams and Flynn. And while Walker/Knight *might* be better than Flynn (it's not even a sure thing), I'd take Kanter/Williams for our future over Calderon any day, and I'm a staunch believer in Calderon.

You do realize you usually have to give up something to get something? You can't expect other GMs to bend over and hand you your long-term solutions, ready to go. If a player was a sure thing already, there wouldn't even be a need for conversation.

Why in the world would the Raps trade for Flynn? What's the compelling case for handing over the starter's job to a guy who has a TS% and EFG% under 50%; a career per of 11.3; negative WS; and a career DRtg of 114 to go with a career ORtg of 94? That's the PG of the future? Jebus.

This team needs long-term solutions and it needs to start using its capspace effectively. Flynn is already 2 years into his rookie deal, which means the Raps lose control of him sooner than a Walker or Knight. He regressed last year. Yes, injuries didn't help him but his advanced stats are awful over 2 years. Is he going to make the Raps materially better than Walker or Knight? Plus, don't the Raps already have Bayless? I just don't see the point of bringing in yet another below average player and giving him significant minutes. At some point, that has to end.

You guys are missing the point. It's not Calderon vs Flynn. It's Calderon and Walker/Knight vs Kanter/Williams and Flynn. And while Walker/Knight *might* be better than Flynn (it's not even a sure thing), I'd take Kanter/Williams for our future over Calderon any day, and I'm a staunch believer in Calderon.

Quix, you're assuming that the Raps would end up with the second pick. Obviously, that changes the calculation but I am failing to see why swapping picks would be part of such a deal. Minny could get better value for that pick than Calderon and the Wolves have no need to dump Flynn. They'll have options.

This team obviously wouldn't compete this year, but it would give Bargs another chance while Ed/Williams/Valanciunas develop, and with the right system, I could see this team having potential in a couple years.

Quix, you're assuming that the Raps would end up with the second pick. Obviously, that changes the calculation but I am failing to see why swapping picks would be part of such a deal. Minny could get better value for that pick than Calderon and the Wolves have no need to dump Flynn. They'll have options.

Whether or not Minnesota would take the deal over another team's is irrelevant. And I'm not assuming anything about the pick. You guys were wondering why there was so much interest on the board in getting Flynn. Most if not all of the "trade for Flynn" suggestions were with the intention of swapping picks with Minnesota. You can't assess whether or not people are crazy for wanting Flynn if you leave out the main reason for the trade. I can't believe we're been debating this "point" for so long yet you missed the important half of the deal!!! =P

Flynn sucks, but at least he's cheap. Getting the #2 pick would give the Raps another starter, albeit not much else in this draft. It would be a really successful offseason if Colangelo could dump the rest of the big contracts on the team. If they're going to lose 60, which they are, at least lose it on the cheap.

There seems to be another point not being recognized ...that Calderon's value to Minny is more him being a Spaniard and a real & previous mentor for Rubio than his skills as a pg. This deal is not considered if Rubio was not Spanish. The Raps should get the better of the deal imo.

The only problem with the trade is the money side of it: another team would have to come in or Minnesota has to include more contracts.

If they trade for Flynn, I can't see them going with Walker at #5. Bayless, Flynn and Walker are all too much the same. I think it depends on whether they see Williams as a potential SF. If so, he would fill a major gap, with another big (at #5) filling the gap at C. If they are dead set on Kanter at #2, then I could see them going for someone like Leonard at #5, but I think that they need some 3-pt shooting.

You're right, they would need to do something about the salaries and the cap to make it work.

If they trade for Flynn, I can't see them going with Walker at #5. Bayless, Flynn and Walker are all too much the same. I think it depends on whether they see Williams as a potential SF. If so, he would fill a major gap, with another big (at #5) filling the gap at C. If they are dead set on Kanter at #2, then I could see them going for someone like Leonard at #5, but I think that they need some 3-pt shooting.

You're right, they would need to do something about the salaries and the cap to make it work.

Bayless or Flynn might be able to repackaged for another asset. I would love to get another first round draft pick for next year or 2013. It is looking like the owners/Stern are pushing for hte age limit to be bumped to 20.

Personally, I think that the Raptors are giving up too much in this scenario, and I think receiving Milicic and Tolliver actually is a negative. I think Bargnani is probably worth a bit more, and I think that the Raptors should try to hang on to the #5. I am not so sold that the #2 will yield a much better player than #5.

The thought process is that with Calderon & Rubio, Minny needs to dump salary and backup PGs. In a single trade, the Raps would acquire Flynn with the TPE and Webster/Ridnour for Calderon. For taking on the salary/player dump, the Raps would get the #2 pick (similar to how Cleveland got LAC's pick along with Baron Davis).

Toronto would then have even more trade assets and roster options, in addition to the #2 pick. It becomes even more inviting when considering what residual moves BC could make with the additional assets.

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OPTION #2

TO MINNY
- Calderon
- Barbosa

TO RAPS
- Flynn
- Webster
- Ridnour
- #2 pick

This trade would work once Barbosa exercises his player option and Minny renounces their rights to Telfair (they woud be far enough under the cap to make this trade work, though it may not be able to get done until July 1st - stupid ESPN Trade Machine). Minny could just include Ellington and not have to worry about Telfair impacting their salary cap up to July 1st, that would work as well.

While we are all speculating about potential trades, here's one that I think might push the Raptors in the right direction...

To Minnesota: Bargnani, Calderon
To Toronto: Flynn, Webster, #2 pick

Raptors draft: Williams (#2), Kanter/Valanciunas/Biyombo (#5)

I think there might be a couple factors working against including Bargnani: 1) he might be redundant beside Love, 2) Minny probably doesn't want his contract, 3) I think Colangelo and Kahn would both rather include Amir.