Not sure if this has been posted if so MOD you can remove it. Anyway, I agree with everything he said about why MOS was made the way it was... Reason why I love this movie so much.

Quote:

Man of Steel storyboard artist Jay Oliva has had a long career in animation, where has has brought his storyboarding skills to such TV shows as Extreme Ghostbusters, RoboCop: Alpha Commando, Godzilla: The Series, The Batman, Justice League and The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes, as well as the animated films Superman: Dooomsday, All-Star Superman, and Green Lantern: Emerald Knights. Additionally, he's directed Young Justice, Batman: The Dark Night Returns and the soon to be released Justice League: The Flashpoint Paradox, among others.

In the first part of VFK's interview with Oliva, we look at the action of Man of Steel, particularly the last twenty minutes or so, exploring the thought process that went into those sequences and, of course, the controversy that has surrounded it.

VOICES FROM KRYPTON: I liked Man of Steel the first time, and I liked it even more the second time.

JAY OLIVA: I’ve heard that from a lot of people, because I think with the initial watching of it, when a lot of people left the theater there was something that bugged them. I think it was from the initial shock of how different it was from what they’re used to. And then when they watched it the second time, because they knew what to expect, they just wanted to watch it because there was so much there. I know when you watch it, something will happen, and then you’re thinking “Why did they do that? I don’t know why they did that,” and because of that you’ll miss 30 seconds that follow. Then it starts compounding as the movie goes along. I’ve noticed that for a lot of people. At the same time, some people just love it, and some people just loathe it.

VOICES FROM KRYPTON: The splitting of people on this thing is amazing. And I do have to say the one thing that stops it from being a great Superman movie in my mind, and it is one of the things people are criticizing I think, is just that when he and Zod are fighting, we should have seen more of a reaction from him about concern for people – they’re knocking down these buildings left and right, and you know there are thousands of people in these buildings that are all dying. But there’s not an instance of him saying, “Hang on a second…”

JAY OLIVA: One of the things that I’d mentioned to Zack is that I didn’t want to do what happens in Dark Knight Rises, where Gotham is empty. It’s supposed to have a two million population, but there are, like, 100 guys who are able to patrol the whole thing and the public is saying, “Oh, there’s a bomb on the island. I’m not going to leave.” Are you kidding? If that happened here in L.A., everyone would be fleeing! And so that was one of the things we discussed – I remember I was asking Zach, maybe we should try doing that — to show people fleeing — and I remember we tried doing that, but there was no time in terms of the relentless attack that was being planned for Zod and Superman. It was just constant. It’s almost like, if you were fighting a lion, you wouldn’t have time to look around to make sure your surroundings were okay, because at any point there could be an attack. People are saying, “How many times can you slam a guy into a building?”, but, really, it’s because they’re trying to position themselves because at any moment Zod could snap Superman’s neck or vice versa, if you think of it that way. Now there was, of course, a lot of destruction, but a lot of it had happened from the initial attack by the Black Zero in Metropolis. So I figured a lot of people had already evacuated the buildings, and in fact The Daily Planet is one of the closer buildings to the epicenter, so a lot of people there had already started fleeing the city. We did have a few shots of people fleeing across a bridge, but that was cut in the end. Obviously I didn’t write the script, but when I was storyboarding it, I tried to make sure that it was as relentless as possible.

I do think that a lot of the things that people didn’t like could also lead to what Superman will eventually be in Man of Steel 2. I have no idea what they’re going to do with it, but that could be an arc. I do remember that there was a discussion after I read the script and talked to Zack where I said, “Really? Superman is going to kill?” He said yes, and then I thought about it. We discussed it a little bit more and I thought, “OK, I can get behind this, because you have to give a reason why he has this no killing code,” if you know what I mean. Also, it’s “Superman Year One”; he’s fallible. One of the things that people who were never fans had a problem with was that previously Superman was too “goody-goody” or he was too perfect. As soon as he finished in Smallville, he was, like, “Ah, ha: Truth, justice and the American way!” I think this different take actually gives you a reason for why he feels that way. Like I said, maybe the aftermath or backlash in 2 might be a good way to bring in Lex Luthor to rally the country against Superman. Everyone assumes that just because Superman is here, everyone is going to be, “Yeah!” Like in Superman Returns where everyone expects Superman to save them. I think this is a little bit more of a realistic take in the sense of what would happen to the general public? If this was comic books back in the ‘70s or ‘80s, people might have just accepted him with, “Oh, yeah, it’s Superman. He’s a good guy.” But today people want a lot more realism in their superhero movies and comics and it also leaves a nice little arc for Superman. Who knows, you might get this backlash in number two where he isn’t what everyone wants him to be and he’s struggling to help everyone, but at the same time people are against him. Even if we do carry over that Christ theme through there, it would actually work. If you think about it, everyone turns on Jesus in The Bible and I think that would be an exciting arc.

When it’s all said and done — whether through a Justice League movie or sequels to this one — you’re going to see a nice arc. If you look at the Donner film and the three sequels, the third and fourth started to fail because they didn't know what to do with Superman. They didn’t continue the love story with Lois; they just lost it. It was almost like we saw his arc in Superman: The Movie, then in part two we saw a little bit more in the sense that he wanted to help people and he had to fight against the super beings and that was it. And at the end of the movie there’s that kiss of forgetfulness and his relationship with Lois goes back to normal. I think that’s why the franchis ended up suffering. I mean, I watched it as a kid and I still love those films, but looking at them today from a filmmaker’s standpoint, or even from a writer’s standpoint, where would you go? At least with this reboot I see a lot of possibilities, and I like the fact that the audience is polarized. I’d rather have them polarized where they love it or they hate it than be either right in the middle or they all hate it. I think this is kind of cool, because the people who hated it, when number two comes up, hopefully the trailers will touch upon the things people have problems with. It will be one of those things where after watching 2 or 3 or however many we do, when you go back and look at the first one you’ll be, like, “Oh, I can see where it was going. I can see it more episodically.” I remember when The Empire Strikes Back came out and everybody panned it. Everyone was, like, “How could they not end the movie?” I look back at it now and that’s my favorite one. I can watch that over and over again and it’s genius. But back then it was so shocking to end that movie with, “I am your father,” and have the Empire win! There was no Deathstar sequence at the end or big explosion. It was a very small, personal story where it was a big revelation. I think as time goes on — and, again, I’m not involved in the writing process, I only come in after the fact — that’s my hope of what we’ll eventually see with the sequel or sequels, or Justice League. How exciting is that? Now that we’re sort of rebooting the DC Universe, it’s kind of how it was in the comics where Superman was the very first superhero, and then after that you start to see Batman, Wonder Woman and the rest. But a lot of people are, like, “I want my Christopher Reeve version of Superman, or this other version of Superman.”

after I read the script and talked to Zack where I said, “Really? Superman is going to kill?” He said yes, and then I thought about it. We discussed it a little bit more and I thought, “OK, I can get behind this, because you have to give a reason why he has this no killing code,”

I've read Zach saying the same. In the end I made my peace with the idea of him killing Zod and I've come to understand and to actually like what they did here, but again, the problem comes with the execution, I totally understand what they were trying to achieve and the idea behind it, but, was it so hard to add a scene to clarify that this has created a big impact on his life? we immediately cut to the "I think he's kinda hot" scene, when I watched it the first time I wasn't thinking "Oh so this is what makes him decide never to kill again" , not at all.

I'm not dumb, I don't need the movies to tell me everything to understand what's happening, but this was a huge development for his character and to cut abruptly to a light scene where Superman acts all cocky and then is talking happily to his mother after what's supposed to be one of his defining moments, definitely damaged what they were trying to achieve.

Quote:

Now there was, of course, a lot of destruction, but a lot of it had happened from the initial attack by the Black Zero in Metropolis. So I figured a lot of people had already evacuated the buildings, and in fact The Daily Planet is one of the closer buildings to the epicenter, so a lot of people there had already started fleeing the city. We did have a few shots of people fleeing across a bridge, but that was cut in the end. Obviously I didn’t write the script, but when I was storyboarding it, I tried to make sure that it was as relentless as possible.

And again, they had the scenes filmed, why did they cut them? they would have toned down the complaints about the so called 'disaster porn' if they had kept those scenes of people leaving the buildings and escaping Metropolis.

__________________

"A 12 year old Ben Linus brought me a chicken salad sandwich. How do you think I'm doing?"

LOST

"A human with me at the end, and human tears. 2000 years and I can still be surprised. In this I see God."

I've read Zach saying the same. In the end I made my peace with the idea of him killing Zod and I've come to understand and to actually like what they did here, but again, the problem comes with the execution, I totally understand what they were trying to achieve and the idea behind it, but, was it so hard to add a scene to clarify that this has created a big impact on his life? we immediately cut to the "I think he's kinda hot" scene, when I watched it the first time I wasn't thinking "Oh so this is what makes him decide never to kill again" , not at all.

I'm not dumb, I don't need the movies to tell me everything to understand what's happening, but this was a huge development for his character and to cut abruptly to a light scene where Superman acts all c***y and then is talking happily to his mother after what's supposed to be one of his defining moments, definitely damaged what they were trying to achieve.

And again, they had the scenes filmed, why did they cut them? they would have toned down the complaints about the so called 'disaster porn' if they had kept those scenes of people leaving the buildings and escaping Metropolis.

I've read Zach saying the same. In the end I made my peace with the idea of him killing Zod and I've come to understand and to actually like what they did here, but again, the problem comes with the execution, I totally understand what they were trying to achieve and the idea behind it, but, was it so hard to add a scene to clarify that this has created a big impact on his life? we immediately cut to the "I think he's kinda hot" scene, when I watched it the first time I wasn't thinking "Oh so this is what makes him decide never to kill again" , not at all.

I'm not dumb, I don't need the movies to tell me everything to understand what's happening, but this was a huge development for his character and to cut abruptly to a light scene where Superman acts all cocky and then is talking happily to his mother after what's supposed to be one of his defining moments, definitely damaged what they were trying to achieve.

And again, they had the scenes filmed, why did they cut them? they would have toned down the complaints about the so called 'disaster porn' if they had kept those scenes of people leaving the buildings and escaping Metropolis.

I agree. After destroying the world engine, They should have had a scene where Swanwick was helping people escape the city, Superman help for two seconds, ask Swanwick does he need any help escorting the people, then Swanwick "No, just get in there and kick his ***"

I've read Zach saying the same. In the end I made my peace with the idea of him killing Zod and I've come to understand and to actually like what they did here...

It just doesn't make sense to me. Why does he have to kill to be against killing? What sense does that make? Why couldn't have have been raised to believe that killing is wrong? If anything, I would think that what he did should force him to realize that, sometimes, killing is something he'll have to do.

Quote:

but again, the problem comes with the execution...

Yep.

Quote:

I'm not dumb, I don't need the movies to tell me everything to understand what's happening, but this was a huge development for his character and to cut abruptly to a light scene where Superman acts all cocky and then is talking happily to his mother after what's supposed to be one of his defining moments, definitely damaged what they were trying to achieve.

This hasn't come up in my discussions about it on this forum, but I would have been more accepting of the scene if I got the idea that they were going to explore all (or most) of the possible ramifications of the action. But I didn't. I don't it'll ever be mentioned again in any relevant way.

You cut 30 seconds of Superman and Zod fighting and show the citizens leaving all those buildings they showed collapsing. Cut 2 minutes of the fight and show a scene with a broken Superman discussing what he did to Zod with Lois or his mother.

That's all it took.

Another thing I read

Quote:

But I figure they have to do something like bring in Lex Luthor and, like you said yourself, have him rebuilt the city. “How did Metropolis get rebuilt so quickly? I know, Lex Luthor did it.”

This is another WONDERFUL idea, Lex Luthor taking advantage of all the destruction they caused, rebuilding the city, but again, what do we have in the film? Metropolis looks perfectly fine, everybody at the DP appear happy, it's like nothing happened. A line that addressed the rebuilt, or the camera pointing to that HUGE "Metropolis will rise again" banner they already had on set while Henry was riding the bike would have taken away the bad taste of feeling like nothing happened and there was no impact after we just witnessed thousands dying with each punch they threw at each other and each collapsing building.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Boy Scout

but I would have been more accepting of the scene if I got the idea that they were going to explore all (or most) of the possible ramifications of the action. But I didn't. I don't it'll ever be mentioned again in any relevant way.

That's what I was talking about, ok, they wanted Clark to kill Zod, they wanted to create all those stunning visuals of destruction and death, then address it later!

Quote:

Originally Posted by blumatic

I agree. After destroying the world engine, They should have had a scene where Swanwick was helping people escape the city, Superman help for two seconds, ask Swanwick does he need any help escorting the people, then Swanwick "No, just get in there and kick his ***"

Would have fixed this film for so many.

Exactly. With simple and basic lines or quick scenes they would have managed to avoid this kind of criticism.

I liked the film, which is why I find it sad to see how with some basic stuff they would have avoided what seem to be our collective problems with the film.

__________________

"A 12 year old Ben Linus brought me a chicken salad sandwich. How do you think I'm doing?"

LOST

"A human with me at the end, and human tears. 2000 years and I can still be surprised. In this I see God."

I hope the sequel delivers. Just address the issues in MOS and add it to the Snyder Goyer Nolan style, with a triumphant victory but with Lex still remaining in favor with Metropolis. No cop outs, no reverse time, no depending on two enemies to set themselves up for failure.

Fantastic read here. Oliva's discussion on Lex is dead on and what I want to see for his rivalry with Superman in Man of Steel 2. I loved the Mozart/Salieri analogy.

I also question what else was cut from this film. They had shots of people fleeing across a bridge, that would've helped out. I'm hoping they announce that an extended cut of the film will be part of the home video release.

__________________Everyone brings joy to this forum. Some by coming in. Some by going out...

Fantastic read here. Oliva's discussion on Lex is dead on and what I want to see for his rivalry with Superman in Man of Steel 2. I loved the Mozart/Salieri analogy.

I also question what else was cut from this film. They had shots of people fleeing across a bridge, that would've helped out. I'm hoping they announce that an extended cut of the film will be part of the home video release.

Yes, that is exactly what the modern take on Lex is. Someone who looks upon superman as a reflection that he or humanity can never achieve and that infuriates him.

This panel from Lex Luthor: Man of Steel really sums up that feeling and i hope they do use the whole book for inspiration.

We didn't need a scene with superman talking about his feelings about killing zod.. That's a horrible idea. Nor should he have been immediately brooding about it.

Although I would have liked a little tease like at the end of hb setting up the repercussions of the events of mos, maybe something about the people now being unsure of whether or not he actually is a force for good not, but even that feels forced. IMO, his immediate action was enough, and they will touch upon it in a way that's important to his decision makin in the sequels.

Anyways, great article/interview, thanks for posting!

__________________
"No great genius has ever existed without some touch of madness." - Aristotle

I agree. After destroying the world engine, They should have had a scene where Swanwick was helping people escape the city, Superman help for two seconds, ask Swanwick does he need any help escorting the people, then Swanwick "No, just get in there and kick his ***"

Would have fixed this film for so many.

So simple yet so effective. They definitely dropped the ball on this and not having a scene after Zod was killed dealing with the destruction of the city. I can only hope this will be addressed in the sequel.

I agree. After destroying the world engine, They should have had a scene where Swanwick was helping people escape the city, Superman help for two seconds, ask Swanwick does he need any help escorting the people, then Swanwick "No, just get in there and kick his ***"

Would have fixed this film for so many.

That technically wouldn't change anything.
However I can see how something as superficial as one character(a soldier no less) telling the hero to go "kick the bad guys ass", instead of helping, would please an audience full of preconceptions.

That technically wouldn't change anything.
However I can see how something as superficial as one character(a soldier no less) telling the hero to go "kick the bad guys ass", instead of helping, would please an audience full of preconceptions.

no joke either.

indeed. with preconception, they will find a way to complain, no matter how they do it.

btw, nice article. agree completely.

__________________
“Everything you can imagine is real.”
― Pablo Picasso

Fantastic read here. Oliva's discussion on Lex is dead on and what I want to see for his rivalry with Superman in Man of Steel 2. I loved the Mozart/Salieri analogy.

I also question what else was cut from this film. They had shots of people fleeing across a bridge, that would've helped out. I'm hoping they announce that an extended cut of the film will be part of the home video release.

__________________“Great wits are sure to madness near allied, and thin partitions do their bounds divide.”
― John Dryden, Absalom and Achitophel