Services

So what next for Lendal after trial?

NOW that the Lendal Bridge trial is coming to an end, there are a couple of things residents can be fairly certain will happen.

Firstly, the trial will not actually end after six months. You can bet that council officials and the Labour cabinet will “need time to assess the results” – a euphemism for: “Let’s buy more time to find reasons for keeping it shut”.

Secondly, we will see a systematic campaign of obfuscation, with manipulation of traffic figures being used to justify permanent closure – a decision I believe has already been made some time ago in private by council officials and the Labour hierarchy.

To keep Lendal Bridge closed, the burden of proof lies squarely with the council to show there has been a significantly beneficial effect on York’s traffic. Actual traffic data proves unequivocally that traffic has got worse, not better, including increased bus journey times.

Botched signage, alienated visitors, disillusioned residents – Kersten England and James Alexander can prove that they are now finally “listening” by making the only logical decision possible and re-opening Lendal Bridge without delay after February 28.

Nick Love, Deangate, York.

• SO City of York Council has taken £1.3 million in five months on Lendal fines – as a York person I feel ashamed (The Press, February 12). 42,800 cars have taken the wrong turning in the wrong place at the wrong time and poor them. Probably there were at least two people in the car so at least 85,600 have not seen and been able to read and interpret the bad signage to avoid Lendal Bridge – so what does that tell the council? It’s made the city impossible to negotiate and a joke.

I don’t believe the closure is an innocent experiment. If this were the case why did they go to the trouble of installing all the money-grabbing paraphanalia? It’s just legalised theft.

This £1.3 million may be small fry when it comes to the long-term PR damage that it is doing to the city. How many more letters does it take from visitors who claim they will never return to York after their experience?

It’s funny but the last time people were robbed en-route to York by a certain Dick Turpin, it was classed as highway robbery and he was hanged. Makes you think…

Comments

Big picture
11:33am Tue 18 Feb 14

Keith (above) writes that there are ‘at least two people’ in any car travelling over Lendal Bridge. Just for reference, only 30% of York’s car journeys are occupied by more than one person. Most of our roads and streets are saturated with lone drivers. Visitors will ‘stop coming to York’, when it becomes a gridlocked, fume filled, car park.

Keith (above) writes that there are ‘at least two people’ in any car travelling over Lendal Bridge. Just for reference, only 30% of York’s car journeys are occupied by more than one person. Most of our roads and streets are saturated with lone drivers. Visitors will ‘stop coming to York’, when it becomes a gridlocked, fume filled, car park.Big picture

Keith (above) writes that there are ‘at least two people’ in any car travelling over Lendal Bridge. Just for reference, only 30% of York’s car journeys are occupied by more than one person. Most of our roads and streets are saturated with lone drivers. Visitors will ‘stop coming to York’, when it becomes a gridlocked, fume filled, car park.

Score: 53

Bo Jolly
11:49am Tue 18 Feb 14

Anyone reading these comments should ignore the voting statistics. A supporter of the council spends her/his evenings down-thumbing critical comments on the bridge closure, reversing the day's voting in the space of 10-20 minutes. This has been observed again and again, and despite the issue being reported, the Press seem unable to prevent it.

The truth is shown by the Press poll last week - 82% want the bridge re-opened (the poll only allowed one vote per computer, meaning that the down-thumber couldn't get away with her/his usual tricks).

Anyone reading these comments should ignore the voting statistics. A supporter of the council spends her/his evenings down-thumbing critical comments on the bridge closure, reversing the day's voting in the space of 10-20 minutes. This has been observed again and again, and despite the issue being reported, the Press seem unable to prevent it.
The truth is shown by the Press poll last week - 82% want the bridge re-opened (the poll only allowed one vote per computer, meaning that the down-thumber couldn't get away with her/his usual tricks).Bo Jolly

Anyone reading these comments should ignore the voting statistics. A supporter of the council spends her/his evenings down-thumbing critical comments on the bridge closure, reversing the day's voting in the space of 10-20 minutes. This has been observed again and again, and despite the issue being reported, the Press seem unable to prevent it.

The truth is shown by the Press poll last week - 82% want the bridge re-opened (the poll only allowed one vote per computer, meaning that the down-thumber couldn't get away with her/his usual tricks).

Score: -26

Bo Jolly
12:02pm Tue 18 Feb 14

Big picture wrote…

Keith (above) writes that there are ‘at least two people’ in any car travelling over Lendal Bridge. Just for reference, only 30% of York’s car journeys are occupied by more than one person. Most of our roads and streets are saturated with lone drivers. Visitors will ‘stop coming to York’, when it becomes a gridlocked, fume filled, car park.

Traffic levels in York were stable or falling before the bridge closure (the council's own figure show this), so there is no evidence to support your nightmarish fantasy.

And if you *really* want to promote congestion and air pollution, probably the single best way is to close a crucial link in the inner ring road and force people to drive greater distances to get to their destinations (in some cases through residential areas).

[quote][p][bold]Big picture[/bold] wrote:
Keith (above) writes that there are ‘at least two people’ in any car travelling over Lendal Bridge. Just for reference, only 30% of York’s car journeys are occupied by more than one person. Most of our roads and streets are saturated with lone drivers. Visitors will ‘stop coming to York’, when it becomes a gridlocked, fume filled, car park.[/p][/quote]Way to go with the exaggeration, Big Picture - 'most of our streets', 'saturated', 'becomes a gridlocked, fume filled, car park'.
Traffic levels in York were stable or falling before the bridge closure (the council's own figure show this), so there is no evidence to support your nightmarish fantasy.
And if you *really* want to promote congestion and air pollution, probably the single best way is to close a crucial link in the inner ring road and force people to drive greater distances to get to their destinations (in some cases through residential areas).Bo Jolly

Big picture wrote…

Keith (above) writes that there are ‘at least two people’ in any car travelling over Lendal Bridge. Just for reference, only 30% of York’s car journeys are occupied by more than one person. Most of our roads and streets are saturated with lone drivers. Visitors will ‘stop coming to York’, when it becomes a gridlocked, fume filled, car park.

Traffic levels in York were stable or falling before the bridge closure (the council's own figure show this), so there is no evidence to support your nightmarish fantasy.

And if you *really* want to promote congestion and air pollution, probably the single best way is to close a crucial link in the inner ring road and force people to drive greater distances to get to their destinations (in some cases through residential areas).

Score: -26

YOUWILLDOASISAY
12:32pm Tue 18 Feb 14

Bo Jolly has summed it up very well indeed.

Bo Jolly has summed it up very well indeed.YOUWILLDOASISAY

Bo Jolly has summed it up very well indeed.

Score: -47

Lunatic
1:00pm Tue 18 Feb 14

"cars have taken the wrong turning in the wrong place at the wrong time and poor them"

No. Not poor them. Driving without due care and attention them. There is no excuse for ignoring road markings and road signage. I am ardently against this closure, but offering excuse for incompetency behind the wheel makes for a weak argument. People should be paying close attention to their surroundings when driving.

And I have no doubt that whatever the statistics show to be the case, the side whose viewpoint they don't support will claim doctoring and obfuscation is the reason why.

"cars have taken the wrong turning in the wrong place at the wrong time and poor them"
No. Not poor them. Driving without due care and attention them. There is no excuse for ignoring road markings and road signage. I am ardently against this closure, but offering excuse for incompetency behind the wheel makes for a weak argument. People should be paying close attention to their surroundings when driving.
And I have no doubt that whatever the statistics show to be the case, the side whose viewpoint they don't support will claim doctoring and obfuscation is the reason why.Lunatic

"cars have taken the wrong turning in the wrong place at the wrong time and poor them"

No. Not poor them. Driving without due care and attention them. There is no excuse for ignoring road markings and road signage. I am ardently against this closure, but offering excuse for incompetency behind the wheel makes for a weak argument. People should be paying close attention to their surroundings when driving.

And I have no doubt that whatever the statistics show to be the case, the side whose viewpoint they don't support will claim doctoring and obfuscation is the reason why.

Score: 51

Cheeky face
2:40pm Tue 18 Feb 14

Road markings are still vague. Let's see what the parking offence tribunal adjudicator comes up with when he visits York tomorrow. He is mainly to look at signs in and around Coppergate, but I have suggested via James Alexander that the adjudicator looks at the poor signage leading to Lendal Bridge. The amount of appeals and the content received by the tribunal has provoked this visit.

The new signs on Lendal Bridge still have the times of exemption after the exceptions. This is not good top-down legalese.

The results are due in Spring; which probably means late May!
Will the trial continue til Spring? YES. ... and ....
Could the council have made this clearer in July 2013? YES.

The facts are there but the statistics can often distort the facts. In fact my definition of statistics is: A way of fudging facts; often for political issues!

Road markings are still vague. Let's see what the parking offence tribunal adjudicator comes up with when he visits York tomorrow. He is mainly to look at signs in and around Coppergate, but I have suggested via James Alexander that the adjudicator looks at the poor signage leading to Lendal Bridge. The amount of appeals and the content received by the tribunal has provoked this visit.
The new signs on Lendal Bridge still have the times of exemption after the exceptions. This is not good top-down legalese.
The results are due in Spring; which probably means late May!
Will the trial continue til Spring? YES. ... and ....
Could the council have made this clearer in July 2013? YES.
The facts are there but the statistics can often distort the facts. In fact my definition of statistics is: A way of fudging facts; often for political issues!Cheeky face

Road markings are still vague. Let's see what the parking offence tribunal adjudicator comes up with when he visits York tomorrow. He is mainly to look at signs in and around Coppergate, but I have suggested via James Alexander that the adjudicator looks at the poor signage leading to Lendal Bridge. The amount of appeals and the content received by the tribunal has provoked this visit.

The new signs on Lendal Bridge still have the times of exemption after the exceptions. This is not good top-down legalese.

The results are due in Spring; which probably means late May!
Will the trial continue til Spring? YES. ... and ....
Could the council have made this clearer in July 2013? YES.

The facts are there but the statistics can often distort the facts. In fact my definition of statistics is: A way of fudging facts; often for political issues!

Score: 22

yorkonafork
2:49pm Tue 18 Feb 14

Lunatic wrote…

"cars have taken the wrong turning in the wrong place at the wrong time and poor them"

No. Not poor them. Driving without due care and attention them. There is no excuse for ignoring road markings and road signage. I am ardently against this closure, but offering excuse for incompetency behind the wheel makes for a weak argument. People should be paying close attention to their surroundings when driving.

And I have no doubt that whatever the statistics show to be the case, the side whose viewpoint they don't support will claim doctoring and obfuscation is the reason why.

But this is poor transport management. As a driver you're meant to concentrate on your driving, the road ahead and other cars/people as a priority, then you need to mix that in with being aware of signs. But the signs are CLEARLY either in the wrong place, are out of view or are among others.
You can't honestly expect, for example, people to drive down Bootham and be able to look at every sign clearly while concentrating on the road, lights and pedestrians as a priority. Yes, there may be lendal bridge signs (though this direction has the poorest for me) but there are carpark signs,local school signs, destination signs, attraction sign all down there as well.

Poor planning from a poor transport operations manager. Simple as that sadly.

[quote][p][bold]Lunatic[/bold] wrote:
"cars have taken the wrong turning in the wrong place at the wrong time and poor them"
No. Not poor them. Driving without due care and attention them. There is no excuse for ignoring road markings and road signage. I am ardently against this closure, but offering excuse for incompetency behind the wheel makes for a weak argument. People should be paying close attention to their surroundings when driving.
And I have no doubt that whatever the statistics show to be the case, the side whose viewpoint they don't support will claim doctoring and obfuscation is the reason why.[/p][/quote]But this is poor transport management. As a driver you're meant to concentrate on your driving, the road ahead and other cars/people as a priority, then you need to mix that in with being aware of signs. But the signs are CLEARLY either in the wrong place, are out of view or are among others.
You can't honestly expect, for example, people to drive down Bootham and be able to look at every sign clearly while concentrating on the road, lights and pedestrians as a priority. Yes, there may be lendal bridge signs (though this direction has the poorest for me) but there are carpark signs,local school signs, destination signs, attraction sign all down there as well.
Poor planning from a poor transport operations manager. Simple as that sadly.yorkonafork

Lunatic wrote…

"cars have taken the wrong turning in the wrong place at the wrong time and poor them"

No. Not poor them. Driving without due care and attention them. There is no excuse for ignoring road markings and road signage. I am ardently against this closure, but offering excuse for incompetency behind the wheel makes for a weak argument. People should be paying close attention to their surroundings when driving.

And I have no doubt that whatever the statistics show to be the case, the side whose viewpoint they don't support will claim doctoring and obfuscation is the reason why.

But this is poor transport management. As a driver you're meant to concentrate on your driving, the road ahead and other cars/people as a priority, then you need to mix that in with being aware of signs. But the signs are CLEARLY either in the wrong place, are out of view or are among others.
You can't honestly expect, for example, people to drive down Bootham and be able to look at every sign clearly while concentrating on the road, lights and pedestrians as a priority. Yes, there may be lendal bridge signs (though this direction has the poorest for me) but there are carpark signs,local school signs, destination signs, attraction sign all down there as well.

Poor planning from a poor transport operations manager. Simple as that sadly.

Score: 4

Lunatic
2:59pm Tue 18 Feb 14

yorkonafork wrote…

Lunatic wrote…

"cars have taken the wrong turning in the wrong place at the wrong time and poor them"

No. Not poor them. Driving without due care and attention them. There is no excuse for ignoring road markings and road signage. I am ardently against this closure, but offering excuse for incompetency behind the wheel makes for a weak argument. People should be paying close attention to their surroundings when driving.

And I have no doubt that whatever the statistics show to be the case, the side whose viewpoint they don't support will claim doctoring and obfuscation is the reason why.

But this is poor transport management. As a driver you're meant to concentrate on your driving, the road ahead and other cars/people as a priority, then you need to mix that in with being aware of signs. But the signs are CLEARLY either in the wrong place, are out of view or are among others.
You can't honestly expect, for example, people to drive down Bootham and be able to look at every sign clearly while concentrating on the road, lights and pedestrians as a priority. Yes, there may be lendal bridge signs (though this direction has the poorest for me) but there are carpark signs,local school signs, destination signs, attraction sign all down there as well.

Poor planning from a poor transport operations manager. Simple as that sadly.

Approaching from that side there are two signs either side of the road just in front of the entrance to the Museum Gardens. They're the same size as the entry signs to your average 20 Zone (the big rectangular ones) and bright yellow with a font the same size as other older signage in the area. RESTRICTED ACCESS is also written in big white letters on the road, equivalent in size to your average family car.

Approaching from the station there's signage, great big white letters denoting BUS LANE, two instances of RESTRICTED ACCESS, and a thick white dividing line between the two lanes.

I'm not making excuses for the council. I'd like to see the bridge reopened. But I'm not going to make excuses for poor driving either. Missing some of the signage is bound to happen - do you really think that would be adequate defence for driving the wrong way down a slip road or doing 40 in a 20 zone? No. Missing all forms of notice, car-sized road markings and all? That is driving without due care and attention.

[quote][p][bold]yorkonafork[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Lunatic[/bold] wrote:
"cars have taken the wrong turning in the wrong place at the wrong time and poor them"
No. Not poor them. Driving without due care and attention them. There is no excuse for ignoring road markings and road signage. I am ardently against this closure, but offering excuse for incompetency behind the wheel makes for a weak argument. People should be paying close attention to their surroundings when driving.
And I have no doubt that whatever the statistics show to be the case, the side whose viewpoint they don't support will claim doctoring and obfuscation is the reason why.[/p][/quote]But this is poor transport management. As a driver you're meant to concentrate on your driving, the road ahead and other cars/people as a priority, then you need to mix that in with being aware of signs. But the signs are CLEARLY either in the wrong place, are out of view or are among others.
You can't honestly expect, for example, people to drive down Bootham and be able to look at every sign clearly while concentrating on the road, lights and pedestrians as a priority. Yes, there may be lendal bridge signs (though this direction has the poorest for me) but there are carpark signs,local school signs, destination signs, attraction sign all down there as well.
Poor planning from a poor transport operations manager. Simple as that sadly.[/p][/quote]Approaching from that side there are two signs either side of the road just in front of the entrance to the Museum Gardens. They're the same size as the entry signs to your average 20 Zone (the big rectangular ones) and bright yellow with a font the same size as other older signage in the area. RESTRICTED ACCESS is also written in big white letters on the road, equivalent in size to your average family car.
Approaching from the station there's signage, great big white letters denoting BUS LANE, two instances of RESTRICTED ACCESS, and a thick white dividing line between the two lanes.
I'm not making excuses for the council. I'd like to see the bridge reopened. But I'm not going to make excuses for poor driving either. Missing some of the signage is bound to happen - do you really think that would be adequate defence for driving the wrong way down a slip road or doing 40 in a 20 zone? No. Missing all forms of notice, car-sized road markings and all? That is driving without due care and attention.Lunatic

yorkonafork wrote…

Lunatic wrote…

"cars have taken the wrong turning in the wrong place at the wrong time and poor them"

No. Not poor them. Driving without due care and attention them. There is no excuse for ignoring road markings and road signage. I am ardently against this closure, but offering excuse for incompetency behind the wheel makes for a weak argument. People should be paying close attention to their surroundings when driving.

And I have no doubt that whatever the statistics show to be the case, the side whose viewpoint they don't support will claim doctoring and obfuscation is the reason why.

But this is poor transport management. As a driver you're meant to concentrate on your driving, the road ahead and other cars/people as a priority, then you need to mix that in with being aware of signs. But the signs are CLEARLY either in the wrong place, are out of view or are among others.
You can't honestly expect, for example, people to drive down Bootham and be able to look at every sign clearly while concentrating on the road, lights and pedestrians as a priority. Yes, there may be lendal bridge signs (though this direction has the poorest for me) but there are carpark signs,local school signs, destination signs, attraction sign all down there as well.

Poor planning from a poor transport operations manager. Simple as that sadly.

Approaching from that side there are two signs either side of the road just in front of the entrance to the Museum Gardens. They're the same size as the entry signs to your average 20 Zone (the big rectangular ones) and bright yellow with a font the same size as other older signage in the area. RESTRICTED ACCESS is also written in big white letters on the road, equivalent in size to your average family car.

Approaching from the station there's signage, great big white letters denoting BUS LANE, two instances of RESTRICTED ACCESS, and a thick white dividing line between the two lanes.

I'm not making excuses for the council. I'd like to see the bridge reopened. But I'm not going to make excuses for poor driving either. Missing some of the signage is bound to happen - do you really think that would be adequate defence for driving the wrong way down a slip road or doing 40 in a 20 zone? No. Missing all forms of notice, car-sized road markings and all? That is driving without due care and attention.

Score: 80

yorkonafork
3:03pm Tue 18 Feb 14

Lunatic wrote…

yorkonafork wrote…

Lunatic wrote…

"cars have taken the wrong turning in the wrong place at the wrong time and poor them"

No. Not poor them. Driving without due care and attention them. There is no excuse for ignoring road markings and road signage. I am ardently against this closure, but offering excuse for incompetency behind the wheel makes for a weak argument. People should be paying close attention to their surroundings when driving.

And I have no doubt that whatever the statistics show to be the case, the side whose viewpoint they don't support will claim doctoring and obfuscation is the reason why.

But this is poor transport management. As a driver you're meant to concentrate on your driving, the road ahead and other cars/people as a priority, then you need to mix that in with being aware of signs. But the signs are CLEARLY either in the wrong place, are out of view or are among others.
You can't honestly expect, for example, people to drive down Bootham and be able to look at every sign clearly while concentrating on the road, lights and pedestrians as a priority. Yes, there may be lendal bridge signs (though this direction has the poorest for me) but there are carpark signs,local school signs, destination signs, attraction sign all down there as well.

Poor planning from a poor transport operations manager. Simple as that sadly.

Approaching from that side there are two signs either side of the road just in front of the entrance to the Museum Gardens. They're the same size as the entry signs to your average 20 Zone (the big rectangular ones) and bright yellow with a font the same size as other older signage in the area. RESTRICTED ACCESS is also written in big white letters on the road, equivalent in size to your average family car.

Approaching from the station there's signage, great big white letters denoting BUS LANE, two instances of RESTRICTED ACCESS, and a thick white dividing line between the two lanes.

I'm not making excuses for the council. I'd like to see the bridge reopened. But I'm not going to make excuses for poor driving either. Missing some of the signage is bound to happen - do you really think that would be adequate defence for driving the wrong way down a slip road or doing 40 in a 20 zone? No. Missing all forms of notice, car-sized road markings and all? That is driving without due care and attention.

Yes, I genuinely see where you're coming from, but how often do those examples happen. Surely this is happening so much that something must be wrong. Whether it's too many signs, or people not know what the bridge is etc.

If there's genuinely nothing wrong with the signs then the headlines should read 'crisis on britain's road as no one knows how to drive any more!'

To me, it's not coincidence that this is happening on mass so much in York for this trial, and not anywhere else.

[quote][p][bold]Lunatic[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]yorkonafork[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Lunatic[/bold] wrote:
"cars have taken the wrong turning in the wrong place at the wrong time and poor them"
No. Not poor them. Driving without due care and attention them. There is no excuse for ignoring road markings and road signage. I am ardently against this closure, but offering excuse for incompetency behind the wheel makes for a weak argument. People should be paying close attention to their surroundings when driving.
And I have no doubt that whatever the statistics show to be the case, the side whose viewpoint they don't support will claim doctoring and obfuscation is the reason why.[/p][/quote]But this is poor transport management. As a driver you're meant to concentrate on your driving, the road ahead and other cars/people as a priority, then you need to mix that in with being aware of signs. But the signs are CLEARLY either in the wrong place, are out of view or are among others.
You can't honestly expect, for example, people to drive down Bootham and be able to look at every sign clearly while concentrating on the road, lights and pedestrians as a priority. Yes, there may be lendal bridge signs (though this direction has the poorest for me) but there are carpark signs,local school signs, destination signs, attraction sign all down there as well.
Poor planning from a poor transport operations manager. Simple as that sadly.[/p][/quote]Approaching from that side there are two signs either side of the road just in front of the entrance to the Museum Gardens. They're the same size as the entry signs to your average 20 Zone (the big rectangular ones) and bright yellow with a font the same size as other older signage in the area. RESTRICTED ACCESS is also written in big white letters on the road, equivalent in size to your average family car.
Approaching from the station there's signage, great big white letters denoting BUS LANE, two instances of RESTRICTED ACCESS, and a thick white dividing line between the two lanes.
I'm not making excuses for the council. I'd like to see the bridge reopened. But I'm not going to make excuses for poor driving either. Missing some of the signage is bound to happen - do you really think that would be adequate defence for driving the wrong way down a slip road or doing 40 in a 20 zone? No. Missing all forms of notice, car-sized road markings and all? That is driving without due care and attention.[/p][/quote]Yes, I genuinely see where you're coming from, but how often do those examples happen. Surely this is happening so much that something must be wrong. Whether it's too many signs, or people not know what the bridge is etc.
If there's genuinely nothing wrong with the signs then the headlines should read 'crisis on britain's road as no one knows how to drive any more!'
To me, it's not coincidence that this is happening on mass so much in York for this trial, and not anywhere else.yorkonafork

Lunatic wrote…

yorkonafork wrote…

Lunatic wrote…

"cars have taken the wrong turning in the wrong place at the wrong time and poor them"

No. Not poor them. Driving without due care and attention them. There is no excuse for ignoring road markings and road signage. I am ardently against this closure, but offering excuse for incompetency behind the wheel makes for a weak argument. People should be paying close attention to their surroundings when driving.

And I have no doubt that whatever the statistics show to be the case, the side whose viewpoint they don't support will claim doctoring and obfuscation is the reason why.

But this is poor transport management. As a driver you're meant to concentrate on your driving, the road ahead and other cars/people as a priority, then you need to mix that in with being aware of signs. But the signs are CLEARLY either in the wrong place, are out of view or are among others.
You can't honestly expect, for example, people to drive down Bootham and be able to look at every sign clearly while concentrating on the road, lights and pedestrians as a priority. Yes, there may be lendal bridge signs (though this direction has the poorest for me) but there are carpark signs,local school signs, destination signs, attraction sign all down there as well.

Poor planning from a poor transport operations manager. Simple as that sadly.

Approaching from that side there are two signs either side of the road just in front of the entrance to the Museum Gardens. They're the same size as the entry signs to your average 20 Zone (the big rectangular ones) and bright yellow with a font the same size as other older signage in the area. RESTRICTED ACCESS is also written in big white letters on the road, equivalent in size to your average family car.

Approaching from the station there's signage, great big white letters denoting BUS LANE, two instances of RESTRICTED ACCESS, and a thick white dividing line between the two lanes.

I'm not making excuses for the council. I'd like to see the bridge reopened. But I'm not going to make excuses for poor driving either. Missing some of the signage is bound to happen - do you really think that would be adequate defence for driving the wrong way down a slip road or doing 40 in a 20 zone? No. Missing all forms of notice, car-sized road markings and all? That is driving without due care and attention.

Yes, I genuinely see where you're coming from, but how often do those examples happen. Surely this is happening so much that something must be wrong. Whether it's too many signs, or people not know what the bridge is etc.

If there's genuinely nothing wrong with the signs then the headlines should read 'crisis on britain's road as no one knows how to drive any more!'

To me, it's not coincidence that this is happening on mass so much in York for this trial, and not anywhere else.

Score: 82

Pinza-C55
4:06pm Tue 18 Feb 14

Cheeky face wrote…

Road markings are still vague. Let's see what the parking offence tribunal adjudicator comes up with when he visits York tomorrow. He is mainly to look at signs in and around Coppergate, but I have suggested via James Alexander that the adjudicator looks at the poor signage leading to Lendal Bridge. The amount of appeals and the content received by the tribunal has provoked this visit.

The new signs on Lendal Bridge still have the times of exemption after the exceptions. This is not good top-down legalese.

The results are due in Spring; which probably means late May!
Will the trial continue til Spring? YES. ... and ....
Could the council have made this clearer in July 2013? YES.

The facts are there but the statistics can often distort the facts. In fact my definition of statistics is: A way of fudging facts; often for political issues!

If the adjudicator decides that the signage is adequate/more than adequate will you accept his decision or find a reason not to accept it?

[quote][p][bold]Cheeky face[/bold] wrote:
Road markings are still vague. Let's see what the parking offence tribunal adjudicator comes up with when he visits York tomorrow. He is mainly to look at signs in and around Coppergate, but I have suggested via James Alexander that the adjudicator looks at the poor signage leading to Lendal Bridge. The amount of appeals and the content received by the tribunal has provoked this visit.
The new signs on Lendal Bridge still have the times of exemption after the exceptions. This is not good top-down legalese.
The results are due in Spring; which probably means late May!
Will the trial continue til Spring? YES. ... and ....
Could the council have made this clearer in July 2013? YES.
The facts are there but the statistics can often distort the facts. In fact my definition of statistics is: A way of fudging facts; often for political issues![/p][/quote]If the adjudicator decides that the signage is adequate/more than adequate will you accept his decision or find a reason not to accept it?Pinza-C55

Cheeky face wrote…

Road markings are still vague. Let's see what the parking offence tribunal adjudicator comes up with when he visits York tomorrow. He is mainly to look at signs in and around Coppergate, but I have suggested via James Alexander that the adjudicator looks at the poor signage leading to Lendal Bridge. The amount of appeals and the content received by the tribunal has provoked this visit.

The new signs on Lendal Bridge still have the times of exemption after the exceptions. This is not good top-down legalese.

The results are due in Spring; which probably means late May!
Will the trial continue til Spring? YES. ... and ....
Could the council have made this clearer in July 2013? YES.

The facts are there but the statistics can often distort the facts. In fact my definition of statistics is: A way of fudging facts; often for political issues!

If the adjudicator decides that the signage is adequate/more than adequate will you accept his decision or find a reason not to accept it?

Score: -12

CaroleBaines
5:45pm Tue 18 Feb 14

I agree about the poor signage and fines fiasco. Not sure I would making accusations about data manipulation and done-deals in print were I Mr Love - but whatever. Signage apart, I think the impact on traffic has been minimal and for me, this sort of thing makes sense in a city which tourism provides 20% of total jobs.
Watching what happens in the future with interest.

I agree about the poor signage and fines fiasco. Not sure I would making accusations about data manipulation and done-deals in print were I Mr Love - but whatever. Signage apart, I think the impact on traffic has been minimal and for me, this sort of thing makes sense in a city which tourism provides 20% of total jobs.
Watching what happens in the future with interest.CaroleBaines

I agree about the poor signage and fines fiasco. Not sure I would making accusations about data manipulation and done-deals in print were I Mr Love - but whatever. Signage apart, I think the impact on traffic has been minimal and for me, this sort of thing makes sense in a city which tourism provides 20% of total jobs.
Watching what happens in the future with interest.

Score: 42

Igiveinthen
8:17pm Tue 18 Feb 14

Lunatic wrote…

yorkonafork wrote…

Lunatic wrote…

"cars have taken the wrong turning in the wrong place at the wrong time and poor them"

No. Not poor them. Driving without due care and attention them. There is no excuse for ignoring road markings and road signage. I am ardently against this closure, but offering excuse for incompetency behind the wheel makes for a weak argument. People should be paying close attention to their surroundings when driving.

And I have no doubt that whatever the statistics show to be the case, the side whose viewpoint they don't support will claim doctoring and obfuscation is the reason why.

But this is poor transport management. As a driver you're meant to concentrate on your driving, the road ahead and other cars/people as a priority, then you need to mix that in with being aware of signs. But the signs are CLEARLY either in the wrong place, are out of view or are among others.
You can't honestly expect, for example, people to drive down Bootham and be able to look at every sign clearly while concentrating on the road, lights and pedestrians as a priority. Yes, there may be lendal bridge signs (though this direction has the poorest for me) but there are carpark signs,local school signs, destination signs, attraction sign all down there as well.

Poor planning from a poor transport operations manager. Simple as that sadly.

Approaching from that side there are two signs either side of the road just in front of the entrance to the Museum Gardens. They're the same size as the entry signs to your average 20 Zone (the big rectangular ones) and bright yellow with a font the same size as other older signage in the area. RESTRICTED ACCESS is also written in big white letters on the road, equivalent in size to your average family car.

Approaching from the station there's signage, great big white letters denoting BUS LANE, two instances of RESTRICTED ACCESS, and a thick white dividing line between the two lanes.

I'm not making excuses for the council. I'd like to see the bridge reopened. But I'm not going to make excuses for poor driving either. Missing some of the signage is bound to happen - do you really think that would be adequate defence for driving the wrong way down a slip road or doing 40 in a 20 zone? No. Missing all forms of notice, car-sized road markings and all? That is driving without due care and attention.

Lunatic, i found these examples of driving without due care and attention:

All sorts of driving could be said to be careless, from a moment’s inattention to driving into another vehicle or pedestrian. Drivers using mobile phones were often prosecuted for careless driving but there is now a specific offence covering this. Eating or smoking whilst driving, or changing a CD, would all be examples of careless driving. Other examples would include;

Driving inappropriately close to another vehicle
Driving through a red light
Turning into the path of another vehicle
Colliding with a pedestrian
Overtaking on the inside

But I can't find any examples of missing Lendal Bridge signage!!

[quote][p][bold]Lunatic[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]yorkonafork[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Lunatic[/bold] wrote:
"cars have taken the wrong turning in the wrong place at the wrong time and poor them"
No. Not poor them. Driving without due care and attention them. There is no excuse for ignoring road markings and road signage. I am ardently against this closure, but offering excuse for incompetency behind the wheel makes for a weak argument. People should be paying close attention to their surroundings when driving.
And I have no doubt that whatever the statistics show to be the case, the side whose viewpoint they don't support will claim doctoring and obfuscation is the reason why.[/p][/quote]But this is poor transport management. As a driver you're meant to concentrate on your driving, the road ahead and other cars/people as a priority, then you need to mix that in with being aware of signs. But the signs are CLEARLY either in the wrong place, are out of view or are among others.
You can't honestly expect, for example, people to drive down Bootham and be able to look at every sign clearly while concentrating on the road, lights and pedestrians as a priority. Yes, there may be lendal bridge signs (though this direction has the poorest for me) but there are carpark signs,local school signs, destination signs, attraction sign all down there as well.
Poor planning from a poor transport operations manager. Simple as that sadly.[/p][/quote]Approaching from that side there are two signs either side of the road just in front of the entrance to the Museum Gardens. They're the same size as the entry signs to your average 20 Zone (the big rectangular ones) and bright yellow with a font the same size as other older signage in the area. RESTRICTED ACCESS is also written in big white letters on the road, equivalent in size to your average family car.
Approaching from the station there's signage, great big white letters denoting BUS LANE, two instances of RESTRICTED ACCESS, and a thick white dividing line between the two lanes.
I'm not making excuses for the council. I'd like to see the bridge reopened. But I'm not going to make excuses for poor driving either. Missing some of the signage is bound to happen - do you really think that would be adequate defence for driving the wrong way down a slip road or doing 40 in a 20 zone? No. Missing all forms of notice, car-sized road markings and all? That is driving without due care and attention.[/p][/quote]Lunatic, i found these examples of driving without due care and attention:
All sorts of driving could be said to be careless, from a moment’s inattention to driving into another vehicle or pedestrian. Drivers using mobile phones were often prosecuted for careless driving but there is now a specific offence covering this. Eating or smoking whilst driving, or changing a CD, would all be examples of careless driving. Other examples would include;
Driving inappropriately close to another vehicle
Driving through a red light
Turning into the path of another vehicle
Colliding with a pedestrian
Overtaking on the inside
But I can't find any examples of missing Lendal Bridge signage!!Igiveinthen

Lunatic wrote…

yorkonafork wrote…

Lunatic wrote…

"cars have taken the wrong turning in the wrong place at the wrong time and poor them"

No. Not poor them. Driving without due care and attention them. There is no excuse for ignoring road markings and road signage. I am ardently against this closure, but offering excuse for incompetency behind the wheel makes for a weak argument. People should be paying close attention to their surroundings when driving.

And I have no doubt that whatever the statistics show to be the case, the side whose viewpoint they don't support will claim doctoring and obfuscation is the reason why.

But this is poor transport management. As a driver you're meant to concentrate on your driving, the road ahead and other cars/people as a priority, then you need to mix that in with being aware of signs. But the signs are CLEARLY either in the wrong place, are out of view or are among others.
You can't honestly expect, for example, people to drive down Bootham and be able to look at every sign clearly while concentrating on the road, lights and pedestrians as a priority. Yes, there may be lendal bridge signs (though this direction has the poorest for me) but there are carpark signs,local school signs, destination signs, attraction sign all down there as well.

Poor planning from a poor transport operations manager. Simple as that sadly.

Approaching from that side there are two signs either side of the road just in front of the entrance to the Museum Gardens. They're the same size as the entry signs to your average 20 Zone (the big rectangular ones) and bright yellow with a font the same size as other older signage in the area. RESTRICTED ACCESS is also written in big white letters on the road, equivalent in size to your average family car.

Approaching from the station there's signage, great big white letters denoting BUS LANE, two instances of RESTRICTED ACCESS, and a thick white dividing line between the two lanes.

I'm not making excuses for the council. I'd like to see the bridge reopened. But I'm not going to make excuses for poor driving either. Missing some of the signage is bound to happen - do you really think that would be adequate defence for driving the wrong way down a slip road or doing 40 in a 20 zone? No. Missing all forms of notice, car-sized road markings and all? That is driving without due care and attention.

Lunatic, i found these examples of driving without due care and attention:

All sorts of driving could be said to be careless, from a moment’s inattention to driving into another vehicle or pedestrian. Drivers using mobile phones were often prosecuted for careless driving but there is now a specific offence covering this. Eating or smoking whilst driving, or changing a CD, would all be examples of careless driving. Other examples would include;

Driving inappropriately close to another vehicle
Driving through a red light
Turning into the path of another vehicle
Colliding with a pedestrian
Overtaking on the inside

But I can't find any examples of missing Lendal Bridge signage!!

Score: -8

YOUWILLDOASISAY
11:20pm Tue 18 Feb 14

Right on the target time 11:15. Night shift mark-down mongrel.

Narrows the list of employers that work 11pm - 7am.

Wonder who will be posting late comments that have magnificent -ve scores overnight (hard to miss really).

Right on the target time 11:15. Night shift mark-down mongrel.
Narrows the list of employers that work 11pm - 7am.
Wonder who will be posting late comments that have magnificent -ve scores overnight (hard to miss really).YOUWILLDOASISAY

Right on the target time 11:15. Night shift mark-down mongrel.

Narrows the list of employers that work 11pm - 7am.

Wonder who will be posting late comments that have magnificent -ve scores overnight (hard to miss really).

Score: -770

YOUWILLDOASISAY
11:21pm Tue 18 Feb 14

YOUWILLDOASISAY wrote…

Right on the target time 11:15. Night shift mark-down mongrel.

Narrows the list of employers that work 11pm - 7am.

Wonder who will be posting late comments that have magnificent -ve scores overnight (hard to miss really).

Apologies +ve scores.

[quote][p][bold]YOUWILLDOASISAY[/bold] wrote:
Right on the target time 11:15. Night shift mark-down mongrel.
Narrows the list of employers that work 11pm - 7am.
Wonder who will be posting late comments that have magnificent -ve scores overnight (hard to miss really).[/p][/quote]Apologies +ve scores.YOUWILLDOASISAY

YOUWILLDOASISAY wrote…

Right on the target time 11:15. Night shift mark-down mongrel.

Narrows the list of employers that work 11pm - 7am.

Wonder who will be posting late comments that have magnificent -ve scores overnight (hard to miss really).

Apologies +ve scores.

Score: -689

YOUWILLDOASISAY
11:39pm Tue 18 Feb 14

If only the local elections were as easy to fiddle as your pathetic attempts to make people believe the opposite of reality.

If only the local elections were as easy to fiddle as your pathetic attempts to make people believe the opposite of reality.
Crack on mark-down mongrel woof, woof, your a legend in your own tea break.YOUWILLDOASISAY

If only the local elections were as easy to fiddle as your pathetic attempts to make people believe the opposite of reality.

If only you had some real integrity, you could combat the comments with comments and facts, but you are a sad, sad case if ever there was one.

Have a nice productive night wasting your time, most people have already read the articles and comments long before you or the evening mongrels get to work, so wasted really. Tomorrows another day, todays news is history.

Yippee, now -75.
If only you had some real integrity, you could combat the comments with comments and facts, but you are a sad, sad case if ever there was one.
Have a nice productive night wasting your time, most people have already read the articles and comments long before you or the evening mongrels get to work, so wasted really. Tomorrows another day, todays news is history.YOUWILLDOASISAY

Yippee, now -75.

If only you had some real integrity, you could combat the comments with comments and facts, but you are a sad, sad case if ever there was one.

Have a nice productive night wasting your time, most people have already read the articles and comments long before you or the evening mongrels get to work, so wasted really. Tomorrows another day, todays news is history.

Score: -36

YOUWILLDOASISAY
11:57pm Tue 18 Feb 14

Well mark-down mongrel, your a hero to a few but a great amusement to many.

Woof, Woof.

LOL (massively).

Well mark-down mongrel, your a hero to a few but a great amusement to many.
Woof, Woof.
LOL (massively).YOUWILLDOASISAY

Well mark-down mongrel, your a hero to a few but a great amusement to many.

Woof, Woof.

LOL (massively).

Score: -33

YOUWILLDOASISAY
12:02am Wed 19 Feb 14

Don't be too upset, there is usually a good reason why some people are chosen to do the simple mundane repetitive tasks, your doing really well.

Woof, Woof.

Don't be too upset, there is usually a good reason why some people are chosen to do the simple mundane repetitive tasks, your doing really well.
Woof, Woof.YOUWILLDOASISAY

Don't be too upset, there is usually a good reason why some people are chosen to do the simple mundane repetitive tasks, your doing really well.

Woof, Woof.

Score: -29

YOUWILLDOASISAY
12:06am Wed 19 Feb 14

Heres a question for you.

How do you keep an idiot occupied?.

Tell him the Lendal Bridge trial is an abject failure.

Heres a question for you.
How do you keep an idiot occupied?.
Tell him the Lendal Bridge trial is an abject failure.YOUWILLDOASISAY

Heres a question for you.

How do you keep an idiot occupied?.

Tell him the Lendal Bridge trial is an abject failure.

Score: -23

strangebuttrue?
12:40am Wed 19 Feb 14

How many roads do you know where you get to a "restricted" (whatever that means) part and find yourself with no alternative way to go?

Could this be one of the problems with Lendal Bridge? I would like to bet that half the folk going over can't believe that they suddenly have to do a three point turn in the middle of a town on a busy road that's just not logical. They must start to believe that Lendal Bridge must be further on as they cross this one as no idiot would impose a restriction without any other alternative than turn round would they? Only some mad dogma driven fool would do that wouldn't they?

Get it open.

How many roads do you know where you get to a "restricted" (whatever that means) part and find yourself with no alternative way to go?
Could this be one of the problems with Lendal Bridge? I would like to bet that half the folk going over can't believe that they suddenly have to do a three point turn in the middle of a town on a busy road that's just not logical. They must start to believe that Lendal Bridge must be further on as they cross this one as no idiot would impose a restriction without any other alternative than turn round would they? Only some mad dogma driven fool would do that wouldn't they?
Get it open.strangebuttrue?

How many roads do you know where you get to a "restricted" (whatever that means) part and find yourself with no alternative way to go?

Could this be one of the problems with Lendal Bridge? I would like to bet that half the folk going over can't believe that they suddenly have to do a three point turn in the middle of a town on a busy road that's just not logical. They must start to believe that Lendal Bridge must be further on as they cross this one as no idiot would impose a restriction without any other alternative than turn round would they? Only some mad dogma driven fool would do that wouldn't they?

Get it open.

Score: -8

[deleted]
7:40am Wed 19 Feb 14

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Score: 0

[deleted]
9:18am Wed 19 Feb 14

[deleted]

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Score: 0

Archiebold the 1st
9:26am Wed 19 Feb 14

We all know where the traffic has gone... and its past the barbican.... it now takes me 45mins to an hour to get to the shops in that area... and I know why don’t I walk... well while I can carry a fair share I wouldn’t want to carry 50-60kgs for 1 mile... I'd love to see the results of how much delay there is now compared to pre bridge hell...

As for driving without due care and attention when does anyone have time to read signs with long sentences on when there are about 10 of them... where do you look... at 20mph its hard to read a sentence...

Just do yourselves a favour and open it.. it wont be long before the shops down layerthorpe complain as this must be effecting their business.... i avoid that area at all costs unless its a must now.

I have to say as i walk over the bridge everyday i do think its nice seeing fewer cars... but my word its sh@t seeing loads of busses and a wasted road... sort it out...

We all know where the traffic has gone... and its past the barbican.... it now takes me 45mins to an hour to get to the shops in that area... and I know why don’t I walk... well while I can carry a fair share I wouldn’t want to carry 50-60kgs for 1 mile... I'd love to see the results of how much delay there is now compared to pre bridge hell...
As for driving without due care and attention when does anyone have time to read signs with long sentences on when there are about 10 of them... where do you look... at 20mph its hard to read a sentence...
Just do yourselves a favour and open it.. it wont be long before the shops down layerthorpe complain as this must be effecting their business.... i avoid that area at all costs unless its a must now.
I have to say as i walk over the bridge everyday i do think its nice seeing fewer cars... but my word its sh@t seeing loads of busses and a wasted road... sort it out...Archiebold the 1st

We all know where the traffic has gone... and its past the barbican.... it now takes me 45mins to an hour to get to the shops in that area... and I know why don’t I walk... well while I can carry a fair share I wouldn’t want to carry 50-60kgs for 1 mile... I'd love to see the results of how much delay there is now compared to pre bridge hell...

As for driving without due care and attention when does anyone have time to read signs with long sentences on when there are about 10 of them... where do you look... at 20mph its hard to read a sentence...

Just do yourselves a favour and open it.. it wont be long before the shops down layerthorpe complain as this must be effecting their business.... i avoid that area at all costs unless its a must now.

I have to say as i walk over the bridge everyday i do think its nice seeing fewer cars... but my word its sh@t seeing loads of busses and a wasted road... sort it out...

Score: 10

courier46
10:20am Wed 19 Feb 14

Big picture wrote…

Keith (above) writes that there are ‘at least two people’ in any car travelling over Lendal Bridge. Just for reference, only 30% of York’s car journeys are occupied by more than one person. Most of our roads and streets are saturated with lone drivers. Visitors will ‘stop coming to York’, when it becomes a gridlocked, fume filled, car park.

Do you really believe all other towns and citys don't have traffic problems?
If we opened up a lot of closed roads as well as the bridge ,traffic lights and road obstructions it might go a way to helping the situation.

[quote][p][bold]Big picture[/bold] wrote:
Keith (above) writes that there are ‘at least two people’ in any car travelling over Lendal Bridge. Just for reference, only 30% of York’s car journeys are occupied by more than one person. Most of our roads and streets are saturated with lone drivers. Visitors will ‘stop coming to York’, when it becomes a gridlocked, fume filled, car park.[/p][/quote]Do you really believe all other towns and citys don't have traffic problems?
If we opened up a lot of closed roads as well as the bridge ,traffic lights and road obstructions it might go a way to helping the situation.courier46

Big picture wrote…

Keith (above) writes that there are ‘at least two people’ in any car travelling over Lendal Bridge. Just for reference, only 30% of York’s car journeys are occupied by more than one person. Most of our roads and streets are saturated with lone drivers. Visitors will ‘stop coming to York’, when it becomes a gridlocked, fume filled, car park.

Do you really believe all other towns and citys don't have traffic problems?
If we opened up a lot of closed roads as well as the bridge ,traffic lights and road obstructions it might go a way to helping the situation.

Score: 9

meme
10:33am Wed 19 Feb 14

I think the issue with the signage is it looks like temporary signage for roadworks etc and like many of us we see these signs all the time and when we get there the road is not actually closed. So we use it
IF the signs said £60 fine for unauthorised vehicles I bet the numbers would drop significantly
I however think its made no difference to traffic flows for or against so is not worth doing unless done properly ie completely closed except emergency vehicles as busses and taxis crossing etc don't make it any better for pedestrians yet have not improved traffic flows on jot elsewhere and have probably made them worse. Clifton bridge is now a nightmare at certain times as is the Northern ring road
what gets my goat is the manipulation of statistics ie busses going faster but arriving later! etc to try to justify what is clearly an ill thought out issue and now the politicians refuse to admit their mistakes for the sake of loss of face
We all make mistakes and admitting them is human and its time politicians in York listened to their voters and ate some humble pie when wrong!

I think the issue with the signage is it looks like temporary signage for roadworks etc and like many of us we see these signs all the time and when we get there the road is not actually closed. So we use it
IF the signs said £60 fine for unauthorised vehicles I bet the numbers would drop significantly
I however think its made no difference to traffic flows for or against so is not worth doing unless done properly ie completely closed except emergency vehicles as busses and taxis crossing etc don't make it any better for pedestrians yet have not improved traffic flows on jot elsewhere and have probably made them worse. Clifton bridge is now a nightmare at certain times as is the Northern ring road
what gets my goat is the manipulation of statistics ie busses going faster but arriving later! etc to try to justify what is clearly an ill thought out issue and now the politicians refuse to admit their mistakes for the sake of loss of face
We all make mistakes and admitting them is human and its time politicians in York listened to their voters and ate some humble pie when wrong!meme

I think the issue with the signage is it looks like temporary signage for roadworks etc and like many of us we see these signs all the time and when we get there the road is not actually closed. So we use it
IF the signs said £60 fine for unauthorised vehicles I bet the numbers would drop significantly
I however think its made no difference to traffic flows for or against so is not worth doing unless done properly ie completely closed except emergency vehicles as busses and taxis crossing etc don't make it any better for pedestrians yet have not improved traffic flows on jot elsewhere and have probably made them worse. Clifton bridge is now a nightmare at certain times as is the Northern ring road
what gets my goat is the manipulation of statistics ie busses going faster but arriving later! etc to try to justify what is clearly an ill thought out issue and now the politicians refuse to admit their mistakes for the sake of loss of face
We all make mistakes and admitting them is human and its time politicians in York listened to their voters and ate some humble pie when wrong!

Score: 10

oldgoat
11:07am Wed 19 Feb 14

So, the scoring troll has ruined what should be a decent system. Maybe the EP techies can sort it?

On topic now, the real issue I keep seeing from the Bootham side of the bridge is there is no easy escape route. Gillygate is the last point at which its easy to turn, but you then have a long divert to get back to either Clifton bridge, or through the long traffic jam around Foss Bank.
A reduction in pollution only happens when less cars / buses travel around. Pushing them to other routes does not make it better, and they need to realise this one.

So, the scoring troll has ruined what should be a decent system. Maybe the EP techies can sort it?
On topic now, the real issue I keep seeing from the Bootham side of the bridge is there is no easy escape route. Gillygate is the last point at which its easy to turn, but you then have a long divert to get back to either Clifton bridge, or through the long traffic jam around Foss Bank.
A reduction in pollution only happens when less cars / buses travel around. Pushing them to other routes does not make it better, and they need to realise this one.oldgoat

So, the scoring troll has ruined what should be a decent system. Maybe the EP techies can sort it?

On topic now, the real issue I keep seeing from the Bootham side of the bridge is there is no easy escape route. Gillygate is the last point at which its easy to turn, but you then have a long divert to get back to either Clifton bridge, or through the long traffic jam around Foss Bank.
A reduction in pollution only happens when less cars / buses travel around. Pushing them to other routes does not make it better, and they need to realise this one.

Score: 11

Igiveinthen
11:40am Wed 19 Feb 14

oldgoat wrote…

So, the scoring troll has ruined what should be a decent system. Maybe the EP techies can sort it? On topic now, the real issue I keep seeing from the Bootham side of the bridge is there is no easy escape route. Gillygate is the last point at which its easy to turn, but you then have a long divert to get back to either Clifton bridge, or through the long traffic jam around Foss Bank. A reduction in pollution only happens when less cars / buses travel around. Pushing them to other routes does not make it better, and they need to realise this one.

I'm sure that JA, DM and their syncophantic followers do realise that air quality is suffering and congestion has increased in other parts of the City, but they ignore any negative comments made, and as long as they can show that air quality is better and traffic levels have decreased over lendal Bridge, then the trial will be published as a complete success, and b****r the rest of us who have to live with the fall out.

[quote][p][bold]oldgoat[/bold] wrote:
So, the scoring troll has ruined what should be a decent system. Maybe the EP techies can sort it? On topic now, the real issue I keep seeing from the Bootham side of the bridge is there is no easy escape route. Gillygate is the last point at which its easy to turn, but you then have a long divert to get back to either Clifton bridge, or through the long traffic jam around Foss Bank. A reduction in pollution only happens when less cars / buses travel around. Pushing them to other routes does not make it better, and they need to realise this one.[/p][/quote]I'm sure that JA, DM and their syncophantic followers do realise that air quality is suffering and congestion has increased in other parts of the City, but they ignore any negative comments made, and as long as they can show that air quality is better and traffic levels have decreased over lendal Bridge, then the trial will be published as a complete success, and b****r the rest of us who have to live with the fall out.Igiveinthen

oldgoat wrote…

So, the scoring troll has ruined what should be a decent system. Maybe the EP techies can sort it? On topic now, the real issue I keep seeing from the Bootham side of the bridge is there is no easy escape route. Gillygate is the last point at which its easy to turn, but you then have a long divert to get back to either Clifton bridge, or through the long traffic jam around Foss Bank. A reduction in pollution only happens when less cars / buses travel around. Pushing them to other routes does not make it better, and they need to realise this one.

I'm sure that JA, DM and their syncophantic followers do realise that air quality is suffering and congestion has increased in other parts of the City, but they ignore any negative comments made, and as long as they can show that air quality is better and traffic levels have decreased over lendal Bridge, then the trial will be published as a complete success, and b****r the rest of us who have to live with the fall out.

Score: 6

Buzzz Light-year
1:16pm Wed 19 Feb 14

It's half term this week and town is full pf tourists and visitors enjoying the Viking festival and street markets.

I've noticed a huge rise in the number of private cars going over the bridge this week.

Coincidence? I think not.

It's half term this week and town is full pf tourists and visitors enjoying the Viking festival and street markets.
I've noticed a huge rise in the number of private cars going over the bridge this week.
Coincidence? I think not.Buzzz Light-year

It's half term this week and town is full pf tourists and visitors enjoying the Viking festival and street markets.

I've noticed a huge rise in the number of private cars going over the bridge this week.

Coincidence? I think not.

Score: 3

Igiveinthen
2:35pm Wed 19 Feb 14

Buzzz Light-year wrote…

It's half term this week and town is full pf tourists and visitors enjoying the Viking festival and street markets. I've noticed a huge rise in the number of private cars going over the bridge this week. Coincidence? I think not.

More money for the coffers then?, and if anyone dare to mention 'singage' I'm sure we will have 'lunatic' banging on about 'driving without due care and attention'.

[quote][p][bold]Buzzz Light-year[/bold] wrote:
It's half term this week and town is full pf tourists and visitors enjoying the Viking festival and street markets. I've noticed a huge rise in the number of private cars going over the bridge this week. Coincidence? I think not.[/p][/quote]More money for the coffers then?, and if anyone dare to mention 'singage' I'm sure we will have 'lunatic' banging on about 'driving without due care and attention'.Igiveinthen

Buzzz Light-year wrote…

It's half term this week and town is full pf tourists and visitors enjoying the Viking festival and street markets. I've noticed a huge rise in the number of private cars going over the bridge this week. Coincidence? I think not.

More money for the coffers then?, and if anyone dare to mention 'singage' I'm sure we will have 'lunatic' banging on about 'driving without due care and attention'.

Score: -18

[deleted]
10:08pm Wed 19 Feb 14

[deleted]

[quote][p][bold]yorkonafork[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Lunatic[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]yorkonafork[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Lunatic[/bold] wrote:
"cars have taken the wrong turning in the wrong place at the wrong time and poor them"
No. Not poor them. Driving without due care and attention them. There is no excuse for ignoring road markings and road signage. I am ardently against this closure, but offering excuse for incompetency behind the wheel makes for a weak argument. People should be paying close attention to their surroundings when driving.
And I have no doubt that whatever the statistics show to be the case, the side whose viewpoint they don't support will claim doctoring and obfuscation is the reason why.[/p][/quote]But this is poor transport management. As a driver you're meant to concentrate on your driving, the road ahead and other cars/people as a priority, then you need to mix that in with being aware of signs. But the signs are CLEARLY either in the wrong place, are out of view or are among others.
You can't honestly expect, for example, people to drive down Bootham and be able to look at every sign clearly while concentrating on the road, lights and pedestrians as a priority. Yes, there may be lendal bridge signs (though this direction has the poorest for me) but there are carpark signs,local school signs, destination signs, attraction sign all down there as well.
Poor planning from a poor transport operations manager. Simple as that sadly.[/p][/quote]Approaching from that side there are two signs either side of the road just in front of the entrance to the Museum Gardens. They're the same size as the entry signs to your average 20 Zone (the big rectangular ones) and bright yellow with a font the same size as other older signage in the area. RESTRICTED ACCESS is also written in big white letters on the road, equivalent in size to your average family car.
Approaching from the station there's signage, great big white letters denoting BUS LANE, two instances of RESTRICTED ACCESS, and a thick white dividing line between the two lanes.
I'm not making excuses for the council. I'd like to see the bridge reopened. But I'm not going to make excuses for poor driving either. Missing some of the signage is bound to happen - do you really think that would be adequate defence for driving the wrong way down a slip road or doing 40 in a 20 zone? No. Missing all forms of notice, car-sized road markings and all? That is driving without due care and attention.[/p][/quote]Yes, I genuinely see where you're coming from, but how often do those examples happen. Surely this is happening so much that something must be wrong. Whether it's too many signs, or people not know what the bridge is etc.
If there's genuinely nothing wrong with the signs then the headlines should read 'crisis on britain's road as no one knows how to drive any more!'
To me, it's not coincidence that this is happening on mass so much in York for this trial, and not anywhere else.[/p][/quote]simple READ road signs no excuse for not reading them, you took a test so you should know what signs and road marking mean if not then get off the road.jake777

yorkonafork wrote…

Lunatic wrote…

yorkonafork wrote…

Lunatic wrote…

"cars have taken the wrong turning in the wrong place at the wrong time and poor them"

No. Not poor them. Driving without due care and attention them. There is no excuse for ignoring road markings and road signage. I am ardently against this closure, but offering excuse for incompetency behind the wheel makes for a weak argument. People should be paying close attention to their surroundings when driving.

And I have no doubt that whatever the statistics show to be the case, the side whose viewpoint they don't support will claim doctoring and obfuscation is the reason why.

But this is poor transport management. As a driver you're meant to concentrate on your driving, the road ahead and other cars/people as a priority, then you need to mix that in with being aware of signs. But the signs are CLEARLY either in the wrong place, are out of view or are among others.
You can't honestly expect, for example, people to drive down Bootham and be able to look at every sign clearly while concentrating on the road, lights and pedestrians as a priority. Yes, there may be lendal bridge signs (though this direction has the poorest for me) but there are carpark signs,local school signs, destination signs, attraction sign all down there as well.

Poor planning from a poor transport operations manager. Simple as that sadly.

Approaching from that side there are two signs either side of the road just in front of the entrance to the Museum Gardens. They're the same size as the entry signs to your average 20 Zone (the big rectangular ones) and bright yellow with a font the same size as other older signage in the area. RESTRICTED ACCESS is also written in big white letters on the road, equivalent in size to your average family car.

Approaching from the station there's signage, great big white letters denoting BUS LANE, two instances of RESTRICTED ACCESS, and a thick white dividing line between the two lanes.

I'm not making excuses for the council. I'd like to see the bridge reopened. But I'm not going to make excuses for poor driving either. Missing some of the signage is bound to happen - do you really think that would be adequate defence for driving the wrong way down a slip road or doing 40 in a 20 zone? No. Missing all forms of notice, car-sized road markings and all? That is driving without due care and attention.

Yes, I genuinely see where you're coming from, but how often do those examples happen. Surely this is happening so much that something must be wrong. Whether it's too many signs, or people not know what the bridge is etc.

If there's genuinely nothing wrong with the signs then the headlines should read 'crisis on britain's road as no one knows how to drive any more!'

To me, it's not coincidence that this is happening on mass so much in York for this trial, and not anywhere else.

simple READ road signs no excuse for not reading them, you took a test so you should know what signs and road marking mean if not then get off the road.

Score: 107

[deleted]
10:13pm Wed 19 Feb 14

[deleted]

[quote][p][bold]Igiveinthen[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Lunatic[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]yorkonafork[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Lunatic[/bold] wrote:
"cars have taken the wrong turning in the wrong place at the wrong time and poor them"
No. Not poor them. Driving without due care and attention them. There is no excuse for ignoring road markings and road signage. I am ardently against this closure, but offering excuse for incompetency behind the wheel makes for a weak argument. People should be paying close attention to their surroundings when driving.
And I have no doubt that whatever the statistics show to be the case, the side whose viewpoint they don't support will claim doctoring and obfuscation is the reason why.[/p][/quote]But this is poor transport management. As a driver you're meant to concentrate on your driving, the road ahead and other cars/people as a priority, then you need to mix that in with being aware of signs. But the signs are CLEARLY either in the wrong place, are out of view or are among others.
You can't honestly expect, for example, people to drive down Bootham and be able to look at every sign clearly while concentrating on the road, lights and pedestrians as a priority. Yes, there may be lendal bridge signs (though this direction has the poorest for me) but there are carpark signs,local school signs, destination signs, attraction sign all down there as well.
Poor planning from a poor transport operations manager. Simple as that sadly.[/p][/quote]Approaching from that side there are two signs either side of the road just in front of the entrance to the Museum Gardens. They're the same size as the entry signs to your average 20 Zone (the big rectangular ones) and bright yellow with a font the same size as other older signage in the area. RESTRICTED ACCESS is also written in big white letters on the road, equivalent in size to your average family car.
Approaching from the station there's signage, great big white letters denoting BUS LANE, two instances of RESTRICTED ACCESS, and a thick white dividing line between the two lanes.
I'm not making excuses for the council. I'd like to see the bridge reopened. But I'm not going to make excuses for poor driving either. Missing some of the signage is bound to happen - do you really think that would be adequate defence for driving the wrong way down a slip road or doing 40 in a 20 zone? No. Missing all forms of notice, car-sized road markings and all? That is driving without due care and attention.[/p][/quote]Lunatic, i found these examples of driving without due care and attention:
All sorts of driving could be said to be careless, from a moment’s inattention to driving into another vehicle or pedestrian. Drivers using mobile phones were often prosecuted for careless driving but there is now a specific offence covering this. Eating or smoking whilst driving, or changing a CD, would all be examples of careless driving. Other examples would include;
Driving inappropriately close to another vehicle
Driving through a red light
Turning into the path of another vehicle
Colliding with a pedestrian
Overtaking on the inside
But I can't find any examples of missing Lendal Bridge signage!![/p][/quote]yawn yawn yawn get a grip and buy a highway code book you might learn something.jake777

Igiveinthen wrote…

Lunatic wrote…

yorkonafork wrote…

Lunatic wrote…

"cars have taken the wrong turning in the wrong place at the wrong time and poor them"

No. Not poor them. Driving without due care and attention them. There is no excuse for ignoring road markings and road signage. I am ardently against this closure, but offering excuse for incompetency behind the wheel makes for a weak argument. People should be paying close attention to their surroundings when driving.

And I have no doubt that whatever the statistics show to be the case, the side whose viewpoint they don't support will claim doctoring and obfuscation is the reason why.

But this is poor transport management. As a driver you're meant to concentrate on your driving, the road ahead and other cars/people as a priority, then you need to mix that in with being aware of signs. But the signs are CLEARLY either in the wrong place, are out of view or are among others.
You can't honestly expect, for example, people to drive down Bootham and be able to look at every sign clearly while concentrating on the road, lights and pedestrians as a priority. Yes, there may be lendal bridge signs (though this direction has the poorest for me) but there are carpark signs,local school signs, destination signs, attraction sign all down there as well.

Poor planning from a poor transport operations manager. Simple as that sadly.

Approaching from that side there are two signs either side of the road just in front of the entrance to the Museum Gardens. They're the same size as the entry signs to your average 20 Zone (the big rectangular ones) and bright yellow with a font the same size as other older signage in the area. RESTRICTED ACCESS is also written in big white letters on the road, equivalent in size to your average family car.

Approaching from the station there's signage, great big white letters denoting BUS LANE, two instances of RESTRICTED ACCESS, and a thick white dividing line between the two lanes.

I'm not making excuses for the council. I'd like to see the bridge reopened. But I'm not going to make excuses for poor driving either. Missing some of the signage is bound to happen - do you really think that would be adequate defence for driving the wrong way down a slip road or doing 40 in a 20 zone? No. Missing all forms of notice, car-sized road markings and all? That is driving without due care and attention.

Lunatic, i found these examples of driving without due care and attention:

All sorts of driving could be said to be careless, from a moment’s inattention to driving into another vehicle or pedestrian. Drivers using mobile phones were often prosecuted for careless driving but there is now a specific offence covering this. Eating or smoking whilst driving, or changing a CD, would all be examples of careless driving. Other examples would include;

Driving inappropriately close to another vehicle
Driving through a red light
Turning into the path of another vehicle
Colliding with a pedestrian
Overtaking on the inside

But I can't find any examples of missing Lendal Bridge signage!!

yawn yawn yawn get a grip and buy a highway code book you might learn something.

Score: 112

[deleted]
10:18pm Wed 19 Feb 14

[deleted]

[quote][p][bold]Archiebold the 1st[/bold] wrote:
We all know where the traffic has gone... and its past the barbican.... it now takes me 45mins to an hour to get to the shops in that area... and I know why don’t I walk... well while I can carry a fair share I wouldn’t want to carry 50-60kgs for 1 mile... I'd love to see the results of how much delay there is now compared to pre bridge hell...
As for driving without due care and attention when does anyone have time to read signs with long sentences on when there are about 10 of them... where do you look... at 20mph its hard to read a sentence...
Just do yourselves a favour and open it.. it wont be long before the shops down layerthorpe complain as this must be effecting their business.... i avoid that area at all costs unless its a must now.
I have to say as i walk over the bridge everyday i do think its nice seeing fewer cars... but my word its sh@t seeing loads of busses and a wasted road... sort it out...[/p][/quote]keep it closed its nice to walk over.jake777

Archiebold the 1st wrote…

We all know where the traffic has gone... and its past the barbican.... it now takes me 45mins to an hour to get to the shops in that area... and I know why don’t I walk... well while I can carry a fair share I wouldn’t want to carry 50-60kgs for 1 mile... I'd love to see the results of how much delay there is now compared to pre bridge hell...

As for driving without due care and attention when does anyone have time to read signs with long sentences on when there are about 10 of them... where do you look... at 20mph its hard to read a sentence...

Just do yourselves a favour and open it.. it wont be long before the shops down layerthorpe complain as this must be effecting their business.... i avoid that area at all costs unless its a must now.

I have to say as i walk over the bridge everyday i do think its nice seeing fewer cars... but my word its sh@t seeing loads of busses and a wasted road... sort it out...

keep it closed its nice to walk over.

Score: 106

[deleted]
11:25pm Wed 19 Feb 14

[deleted]

[quote][p][bold]jake777[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Igiveinthen[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Lunatic[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]yorkonafork[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Lunatic[/bold] wrote:
"cars have taken the wrong turning in the wrong place at the wrong time and poor them"
No. Not poor them. Driving without due care and attention them. There is no excuse for ignoring road markings and road signage. I am ardently against this closure, but offering excuse for incompetency behind the wheel makes for a weak argument. People should be paying close attention to their surroundings when driving.
And I have no doubt that whatever the statistics show to be the case, the side whose viewpoint they don't support will claim doctoring and obfuscation is the reason why.[/p][/quote]But this is poor transport management. As a driver you're meant to concentrate on your driving, the road ahead and other cars/people as a priority, then you need to mix that in with being aware of signs. But the signs are CLEARLY either in the wrong place, are out of view or are among others.
You can't honestly expect, for example, people to drive down Bootham and be able to look at every sign clearly while concentrating on the road, lights and pedestrians as a priority. Yes, there may be lendal bridge signs (though this direction has the poorest for me) but there are carpark signs,local school signs, destination signs, attraction sign all down there as well.
Poor planning from a poor transport operations manager. Simple as that sadly.[/p][/quote]Approaching from that side there are two signs either side of the road just in front of the entrance to the Museum Gardens. They're the same size as the entry signs to your average 20 Zone (the big rectangular ones) and bright yellow with a font the same size as other older signage in the area. RESTRICTED ACCESS is also written in big white letters on the road, equivalent in size to your average family car.
Approaching from the station there's signage, great big white letters denoting BUS LANE, two instances of RESTRICTED ACCESS, and a thick white dividing line between the two lanes.
I'm not making excuses for the council. I'd like to see the bridge reopened. But I'm not going to make excuses for poor driving either. Missing some of the signage is bound to happen - do you really think that would be adequate defence for driving the wrong way down a slip road or doing 40 in a 20 zone? No. Missing all forms of notice, car-sized road markings and all? That is driving without due care and attention.[/p][/quote]Lunatic, i found these examples of driving without due care and attention:
All sorts of driving could be said to be careless, from a moment’s inattention to driving into another vehicle or pedestrian. Drivers using mobile phones were often prosecuted for careless driving but there is now a specific offence covering this. Eating or smoking whilst driving, or changing a CD, would all be examples of careless driving. Other examples would include;
Driving inappropriately close to another vehicle
Driving through a red light
Turning into the path of another vehicle
Colliding with a pedestrian
Overtaking on the inside
But I can't find any examples of missing Lendal Bridge signage!![/p][/quote]yawn yawn yawn get a grip and buy a highway code book you might learn something.[/p][/quote]Well the pubs must have closed early and jake777 is back home, it amazes me they let you out of your room, can't your carer lose the key to the computer room and give us all a rest, or at least get an adult to type a meaningful comment for you.Igiveinthen

jake777 wrote…

Igiveinthen wrote…

Lunatic wrote…

yorkonafork wrote…

Lunatic wrote…

"cars have taken the wrong turning in the wrong place at the wrong time and poor them"

No. Not poor them. Driving without due care and attention them. There is no excuse for ignoring road markings and road signage. I am ardently against this closure, but offering excuse for incompetency behind the wheel makes for a weak argument. People should be paying close attention to their surroundings when driving.

And I have no doubt that whatever the statistics show to be the case, the side whose viewpoint they don't support will claim doctoring and obfuscation is the reason why.

But this is poor transport management. As a driver you're meant to concentrate on your driving, the road ahead and other cars/people as a priority, then you need to mix that in with being aware of signs. But the signs are CLEARLY either in the wrong place, are out of view or are among others.
You can't honestly expect, for example, people to drive down Bootham and be able to look at every sign clearly while concentrating on the road, lights and pedestrians as a priority. Yes, there may be lendal bridge signs (though this direction has the poorest for me) but there are carpark signs,local school signs, destination signs, attraction sign all down there as well.

Poor planning from a poor transport operations manager. Simple as that sadly.

Approaching from that side there are two signs either side of the road just in front of the entrance to the Museum Gardens. They're the same size as the entry signs to your average 20 Zone (the big rectangular ones) and bright yellow with a font the same size as other older signage in the area. RESTRICTED ACCESS is also written in big white letters on the road, equivalent in size to your average family car.

Approaching from the station there's signage, great big white letters denoting BUS LANE, two instances of RESTRICTED ACCESS, and a thick white dividing line between the two lanes.

I'm not making excuses for the council. I'd like to see the bridge reopened. But I'm not going to make excuses for poor driving either. Missing some of the signage is bound to happen - do you really think that would be adequate defence for driving the wrong way down a slip road or doing 40 in a 20 zone? No. Missing all forms of notice, car-sized road markings and all? That is driving without due care and attention.

Lunatic, i found these examples of driving without due care and attention:

All sorts of driving could be said to be careless, from a moment’s inattention to driving into another vehicle or pedestrian. Drivers using mobile phones were often prosecuted for careless driving but there is now a specific offence covering this. Eating or smoking whilst driving, or changing a CD, would all be examples of careless driving. Other examples would include;

Driving inappropriately close to another vehicle
Driving through a red light
Turning into the path of another vehicle
Colliding with a pedestrian
Overtaking on the inside

But I can't find any examples of missing Lendal Bridge signage!!

yawn yawn yawn get a grip and buy a highway code book you might learn something.

Well the pubs must have closed early and jake777 is back home, it amazes me they let you out of your room, can't your carer lose the key to the computer room and give us all a rest, or at least get an adult to type a meaningful comment for you.

Score: -164

[deleted]
8:53am Thu 20 Feb 14

[deleted]

[quote][p][bold]jake777[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Archiebold the 1st[/bold] wrote: We all know where the traffic has gone... and its past the barbican.... it now takes me 45mins to an hour to get to the shops in that area... and I know why don’t I walk... well while I can carry a fair share I wouldn’t want to carry 50-60kgs for 1 mile... I'd love to see the results of how much delay there is now compared to pre bridge hell... As for driving without due care and attention when does anyone have time to read signs with long sentences on when there are about 10 of them... where do you look... at 20mph its hard to read a sentence... Just do yourselves a favour and open it.. it wont be long before the shops down layerthorpe complain as this must be effecting their business.... i avoid that area at all costs unless its a must now. I have to say as i walk over the bridge everyday i do think its nice seeing fewer cars... but my word its sh@t seeing loads of busses and a wasted road... sort it out...[/p][/quote]keep it closed its nice to walk over.[/p][/quote]keep it shut you drain me...Archiebold the 1st

jake777 wrote…

Archiebold the 1st wrote…

We all know where the traffic has gone... and its past the barbican.... it now takes me 45mins to an hour to get to the shops in that area... and I know why don’t I walk... well while I can carry a fair share I wouldn’t want to carry 50-60kgs for 1 mile... I'd love to see the results of how much delay there is now compared to pre bridge hell... As for driving without due care and attention when does anyone have time to read signs with long sentences on when there are about 10 of them... where do you look... at 20mph its hard to read a sentence... Just do yourselves a favour and open it.. it wont be long before the shops down layerthorpe complain as this must be effecting their business.... i avoid that area at all costs unless its a must now. I have to say as i walk over the bridge everyday i do think its nice seeing fewer cars... but my word its sh@t seeing loads of busses and a wasted road... sort it out...

keep it closed its nice to walk over.

keep it shut you drain me...

Score: 0

FarmersBlonde
11:36am Thu 20 Feb 14

If you live on the Goodramgate end of Deangate, as I believe Mr Love does, then just getting to Lendal bridge by car isn't easy. May be they should reopen Deangate as well, would make it much quicker all round.

If you live on the Goodramgate end of Deangate, as I believe Mr Love does, then just getting to Lendal bridge by car isn't easy. May be they should reopen Deangate as well, would make it much quicker all round.FarmersBlonde

If you live on the Goodramgate end of Deangate, as I believe Mr Love does, then just getting to Lendal bridge by car isn't easy. May be they should reopen Deangate as well, would make it much quicker all round.

Score: 2

[deleted]
1:30pm Thu 20 Feb 14

[deleted]

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Score: 0

Dodger8
5:51pm Thu 20 Feb 14

York City Council should stop its Bullying tactics with residents in order to try and get cars off the streets. They should remember like it or not they are there to support and make life better for residents. Instead they seem to be prepared to take their money and pretend it is what the citizens want. Complete disregard for the hardships caused and business lost.

York City Council should stop its Bullying tactics with residents in order to try and get cars off the streets. They should remember like it or not they are there to support and make life better for residents. Instead they seem to be prepared to take their money and pretend it is what the citizens want. Complete disregard for the hardships caused and business lost.Dodger8

York City Council should stop its Bullying tactics with residents in order to try and get cars off the streets. They should remember like it or not they are there to support and make life better for residents. Instead they seem to be prepared to take their money and pretend it is what the citizens want. Complete disregard for the hardships caused and business lost.

Score: 3

RoseD
6:23pm Sat 22 Feb 14

YOUWILLDOASISAY wrote…

Bo Jolly has summed it up very well indeed.

Yeh you can tell Bo has. The Jolly Score Monkey has voted him down vehemently.
Your taxes at work: to pay for Score Monkeys, and idiot CYC schemes. What's next? THIS GROUP OUT, that's what. Can hardly wait to vote.

Hey maybe I can be a Vote Monkey?

[quote][p][bold]YOUWILLDOASISAY[/bold] wrote:
Bo Jolly has summed it up very well indeed.[/p][/quote]Yeh you can tell Bo has. The Jolly Score Monkey has voted him down vehemently.
Your taxes at work: to pay for Score Monkeys, and idiot CYC schemes. What's next? THIS GROUP OUT, that's what. Can hardly wait to vote.
Hey maybe I can be a Vote Monkey?RoseD

YOUWILLDOASISAY wrote…

Bo Jolly has summed it up very well indeed.

Yeh you can tell Bo has. The Jolly Score Monkey has voted him down vehemently.
Your taxes at work: to pay for Score Monkeys, and idiot CYC schemes. What's next? THIS GROUP OUT, that's what. Can hardly wait to vote.

Hey maybe I can be a Vote Monkey?

Score: 2

RoseD
6:28pm Sat 22 Feb 14

YOUWILLDOASISAY wrote…

Heres a question for you.

How do you keep an idiot occupied?.

Tell him the Lendal Bridge trial is an abject failure.

LOL

[quote][p][bold]YOUWILLDOASISAY[/bold] wrote:
Heres a question for you.
How do you keep an idiot occupied?.
Tell him the Lendal Bridge trial is an abject failure.[/p][/quote]LOLRoseD

YOUWILLDOASISAY wrote…

Heres a question for you.

How do you keep an idiot occupied?.

Tell him the Lendal Bridge trial is an abject failure.

LOL

Score: 2

andybrit1
5:25pm Sun 23 Feb 14

While the likes of Merrett, and Alexander, will no doubt deem the Lendal Bridge closure a success, they should re- open the bridge until any decision is made about making it permanent, which is what they want. I am sure they will look out of their windows at the council offices, and see the few cars and buses going by, and heap huge praise on themselves, for the lack of congestion around themselves. Not quite a success, more, a sensible move by drivers, who know that to go that route, would leave them out of pocket. I make no bones, of the fact that I hate the likes of Merrett, and Alexander, I am a driver, who will not be forced on to a bus or a bicycle. But then, I am happy, not to shop in the city centre. The point I am making, is' There are many like me'. The businesses in the centre are suffering, because of City of York council's fetish with cycling, and hatred of cars. York council has a history of lying to it's public. It has used the media to promote it's mind games. Deangate, was closed, not because of a bold move by York council, to engage its vision of foot streets. It was closed, according to them, because traffic was damaging the fabric of the Minster. All the streets around, and leading into the City were closed to traffic, because drivers were using them as' rat runs'. Not so. These streets were legitimate routes between major roads, and were closed, so the council, could charge the residents for private parking. A good example of which, is Vyner Street. According to York council. this road was not built to take the volume of traffic. It's always double parked, and at any time of day, there are cars entering and leaving. Not just at rush hour, which was the time it used to be busy. I hope these people come clean to the public of York for once, and tell them the real reason for wanting to pedestrianize Exhibtion Square. Could it be, a condition put in place by a large hotel group, which would be interested in buying the council buildings?

While the likes of Merrett, and Alexander, will no doubt deem the Lendal Bridge closure a success, they should re- open the bridge until any decision is made about making it permanent, which is what they want. I am sure they will look out of their windows at the council offices, and see the few cars and buses going by, and heap huge praise on themselves, for the lack of congestion around themselves. Not quite a success, more, a sensible move by drivers, who know that to go that route, would leave them out of pocket. I make no bones, of the fact that I hate the likes of Merrett, and Alexander, I am a driver, who will not be forced on to a bus or a bicycle. But then, I am happy, not to shop in the city centre. The point I am making, is' There are many like me'. The businesses in the centre are suffering, because of City of York council's fetish with cycling, and hatred of cars. York council has a history of lying to it's public. It has used the media to promote it's mind games. Deangate, was closed, not because of a bold move by York council, to engage its vision of foot streets. It was closed, according to them, because traffic was damaging the fabric of the Minster. All the streets around, and leading into the City were closed to traffic, because drivers were using them as' rat runs'. Not so. These streets were legitimate routes between major roads, and were closed, so the council, could charge the residents for private parking. A good example of which, is Vyner Street. According to York council. this road was not built to take the volume of traffic. It's always double parked, and at any time of day, there are cars entering and leaving. Not just at rush hour, which was the time it used to be busy. I hope these people come clean to the public of York for once, and tell them the real reason for wanting to pedestrianize Exhibtion Square. Could it be, a condition put in place by a large hotel group, which would be interested in buying the council buildings?andybrit1

While the likes of Merrett, and Alexander, will no doubt deem the Lendal Bridge closure a success, they should re- open the bridge until any decision is made about making it permanent, which is what they want. I am sure they will look out of their windows at the council offices, and see the few cars and buses going by, and heap huge praise on themselves, for the lack of congestion around themselves. Not quite a success, more, a sensible move by drivers, who know that to go that route, would leave them out of pocket. I make no bones, of the fact that I hate the likes of Merrett, and Alexander, I am a driver, who will not be forced on to a bus or a bicycle. But then, I am happy, not to shop in the city centre. The point I am making, is' There are many like me'. The businesses in the centre are suffering, because of City of York council's fetish with cycling, and hatred of cars. York council has a history of lying to it's public. It has used the media to promote it's mind games. Deangate, was closed, not because of a bold move by York council, to engage its vision of foot streets. It was closed, according to them, because traffic was damaging the fabric of the Minster. All the streets around, and leading into the City were closed to traffic, because drivers were using them as' rat runs'. Not so. These streets were legitimate routes between major roads, and were closed, so the council, could charge the residents for private parking. A good example of which, is Vyner Street. According to York council. this road was not built to take the volume of traffic. It's always double parked, and at any time of day, there are cars entering and leaving. Not just at rush hour, which was the time it used to be busy. I hope these people come clean to the public of York for once, and tell them the real reason for wanting to pedestrianize Exhibtion Square. Could it be, a condition put in place by a large hotel group, which would be interested in buying the council buildings?

Score: 2

Batman Begins
11:25am Mon 24 Feb 14

andybrit1 wrote…

While the likes of Merrett, and Alexander, will no doubt deem the Lendal Bridge closure a success, they should re- open the bridge until any decision is made about making it permanent, which is what they want. I am sure they will look out of their windows at the council offices, and see the few cars and buses going by, and heap huge praise on themselves, for the lack of congestion around themselves. Not quite a success, more, a sensible move by drivers, who know that to go that route, would leave them out of pocket. I make no bones, of the fact that I hate the likes of Merrett, and Alexander, I am a driver, who will not be forced on to a bus or a bicycle. But then, I am happy, not to shop in the city centre. The point I am making, is' There are many like me'. The businesses in the centre are suffering, because of City of York council's fetish with cycling, and hatred of cars. York council has a history of lying to it's public. It has used the media to promote it's mind games. Deangate, was closed, not because of a bold move by York council, to engage its vision of foot streets. It was closed, according to them, because traffic was damaging the fabric of the Minster. All the streets around, and leading into the City were closed to traffic, because drivers were using them as' rat runs'. Not so. These streets were legitimate routes between major roads, and were closed, so the council, could charge the residents for private parking. A good example of which, is Vyner Street. According to York council. this road was not built to take the volume of traffic. It's always double parked, and at any time of day, there are cars entering and leaving. Not just at rush hour, which was the time it used to be busy. I hope these people come clean to the public of York for once, and tell them the real reason for wanting to pedestrianize Exhibtion Square. Could it be, a condition put in place by a large hotel group, which would be interested in buying the council buildings?

I think the pedestrianisation /restricted access plan for the East of York could well extend beyond Exhibition Square and Lendal Bridge.

The reported drop in traffic on Gillygate and Clarence Street may now allow them to consider trialling their closure.

[quote][p][bold]andybrit1[/bold] wrote:
While the likes of Merrett, and Alexander, will no doubt deem the Lendal Bridge closure a success, they should re- open the bridge until any decision is made about making it permanent, which is what they want. I am sure they will look out of their windows at the council offices, and see the few cars and buses going by, and heap huge praise on themselves, for the lack of congestion around themselves. Not quite a success, more, a sensible move by drivers, who know that to go that route, would leave them out of pocket. I make no bones, of the fact that I hate the likes of Merrett, and Alexander, I am a driver, who will not be forced on to a bus or a bicycle. But then, I am happy, not to shop in the city centre. The point I am making, is' There are many like me'. The businesses in the centre are suffering, because of City of York council's fetish with cycling, and hatred of cars. York council has a history of lying to it's public. It has used the media to promote it's mind games. Deangate, was closed, not because of a bold move by York council, to engage its vision of foot streets. It was closed, according to them, because traffic was damaging the fabric of the Minster. All the streets around, and leading into the City were closed to traffic, because drivers were using them as' rat runs'. Not so. These streets were legitimate routes between major roads, and were closed, so the council, could charge the residents for private parking. A good example of which, is Vyner Street. According to York council. this road was not built to take the volume of traffic. It's always double parked, and at any time of day, there are cars entering and leaving. Not just at rush hour, which was the time it used to be busy. I hope these people come clean to the public of York for once, and tell them the real reason for wanting to pedestrianize Exhibtion Square. Could it be, a condition put in place by a large hotel group, which would be interested in buying the council buildings?[/p][/quote]I think the pedestrianisation /restricted access plan for the East of York could well extend beyond Exhibition Square and Lendal Bridge.
The reported drop in traffic on Gillygate and Clarence Street may now allow them to consider trialling their closure.Batman Begins

andybrit1 wrote…

While the likes of Merrett, and Alexander, will no doubt deem the Lendal Bridge closure a success, they should re- open the bridge until any decision is made about making it permanent, which is what they want. I am sure they will look out of their windows at the council offices, and see the few cars and buses going by, and heap huge praise on themselves, for the lack of congestion around themselves. Not quite a success, more, a sensible move by drivers, who know that to go that route, would leave them out of pocket. I make no bones, of the fact that I hate the likes of Merrett, and Alexander, I am a driver, who will not be forced on to a bus or a bicycle. But then, I am happy, not to shop in the city centre. The point I am making, is' There are many like me'. The businesses in the centre are suffering, because of City of York council's fetish with cycling, and hatred of cars. York council has a history of lying to it's public. It has used the media to promote it's mind games. Deangate, was closed, not because of a bold move by York council, to engage its vision of foot streets. It was closed, according to them, because traffic was damaging the fabric of the Minster. All the streets around, and leading into the City were closed to traffic, because drivers were using them as' rat runs'. Not so. These streets were legitimate routes between major roads, and were closed, so the council, could charge the residents for private parking. A good example of which, is Vyner Street. According to York council. this road was not built to take the volume of traffic. It's always double parked, and at any time of day, there are cars entering and leaving. Not just at rush hour, which was the time it used to be busy. I hope these people come clean to the public of York for once, and tell them the real reason for wanting to pedestrianize Exhibtion Square. Could it be, a condition put in place by a large hotel group, which would be interested in buying the council buildings?

I think the pedestrianisation /restricted access plan for the East of York could well extend beyond Exhibition Square and Lendal Bridge.

The reported drop in traffic on Gillygate and Clarence Street may now allow them to consider trialling their closure.

Score: 0

greenmonkey
5:23pm Mon 24 Feb 14

But I'm not going to make excuses for poor driving either. Missing some of the signage is bound to happen - do you really think that would be adequate defence for driving the wrong way down a slip road or doing 40 in a 20 zone? No. Missing all forms of notice, car-sized road markings and all? That is driving without due care and attention.

Well said!

But can we finally settle this one??
"I hope these people come clean to the public of York for once, and tell them the real reason for wanting to pedestrianize Exhibtion Square. Could it be, a condition put in place by a large hotel group, which would be interested in buying the council buildings?"

The council sold St Leonards Place in 2006, in good time to get a decent price before the crash. They leased the building back until the new offices were ready to move into. Planning permission for conversion to a hotel has already been granted - though of course the plan is more likely to be developed if the traffic pollution is addressed and the square smartened up. The only benefit to the council is in ensuring that a listed building in a primary location is brought back into use as soon as possible.

But I'm not going to make excuses for poor driving either. Missing some of the signage is bound to happen - do you really think that would be adequate defence for driving the wrong way down a slip road or doing 40 in a 20 zone? No. Missing all forms of notice, car-sized road markings and all? That is driving without due care and attention.
Well said!
But can we finally settle this one??
"I hope these people come clean to the public of York for once, and tell them the real reason for wanting to pedestrianize Exhibtion Square. Could it be, a condition put in place by a large hotel group, which would be interested in buying the council buildings?"
The council sold St Leonards Place in 2006, in good time to get a decent price before the crash. They leased the building back until the new offices were ready to move into. Planning permission for conversion to a hotel has already been granted - though of course the plan is more likely to be developed if the traffic pollution is addressed and the square smartened up. The only benefit to the council is in ensuring that a listed building in a primary location is brought back into use as soon as possible.greenmonkey

But I'm not going to make excuses for poor driving either. Missing some of the signage is bound to happen - do you really think that would be adequate defence for driving the wrong way down a slip road or doing 40 in a 20 zone? No. Missing all forms of notice, car-sized road markings and all? That is driving without due care and attention.

Well said!

But can we finally settle this one??
"I hope these people come clean to the public of York for once, and tell them the real reason for wanting to pedestrianize Exhibtion Square. Could it be, a condition put in place by a large hotel group, which would be interested in buying the council buildings?"

The council sold St Leonards Place in 2006, in good time to get a decent price before the crash. They leased the building back until the new offices were ready to move into. Planning permission for conversion to a hotel has already been granted - though of course the plan is more likely to be developed if the traffic pollution is addressed and the square smartened up. The only benefit to the council is in ensuring that a listed building in a primary location is brought back into use as soon as possible.

Score: 0

swh1963
7:18pm Mon 24 Feb 14

I saw the Lord Mayor's car going over the bridge during the restricted time. On what basis is she excused?

I saw the Lord Mayor's car going over the bridge during the restricted time. On what basis is she excused?swh1963

I saw the Lord Mayor's car going over the bridge during the restricted time. On what basis is she excused?

Score: 2

Igiveinthen
8:07pm Mon 24 Feb 14

swh1963 wrote…

I saw the Lord Mayor's car going over the bridge during the restricted time. On what basis is she excused?

Because she's the Lord Mayor and it does not apply to her, typical CoYC attitude - Do as I say and Not what I do!!!

[quote][p][bold]swh1963[/bold] wrote:
I saw the Lord Mayor's car going over the bridge during the restricted time. On what basis is she excused?[/p][/quote]Because she's the Lord Mayor and it does not apply to her, typical CoYC attitude - Do as I say and Not what I do!!!Igiveinthen

swh1963 wrote…

I saw the Lord Mayor's car going over the bridge during the restricted time. On what basis is she excused?

Because she's the Lord Mayor and it does not apply to her, typical CoYC attitude - Do as I say and Not what I do!!!

Ipsoregulated

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