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You cut the end off one of them and use a star washer over the end. Push one with the brass ferrule through one hole and the the other in the hole opposite - screw them up, slip the washer down to the eyelet and then unscrew. When you rescrew them they will give you an accurate ERD.

Just as a tip for you guys who may be thinking about building your own deep section wheels.
You can't take anyones word for it when it comes to spoke lengths or ERD measurements as many rims vary quite a bit between ages and production runs.
And what you really don't want is 44 or so expensive spokes that are the wrong length. Get the rim in your hand, measure the rim diameter and work out the rim bed thickness with an old spoke and nipple, add your rim bed thickness times two onto the diameter and you have the real ERD.
Do the job right, first time and be patient enough to get it perfect, if you get it wrong it can turn into a nightmare.
Believe me......I know!

OK Legs, I have my rim, measured the ERD and calculated the required spoke length using spocalc.
I am planning to use either DT New Aero Spokes or CX-rays, the rims are Gigantex with internal nipple drillings. Do I need to allow any extra length on the calculated spoke length for the fact I will be using inverted sapim hex nipples?

Oh BTW thos hubs I was designing were going to cost too much to manufacture at low volumes

Also heads up to anyone in the UK looking to build a 20h front wheel on a budget. Chainreaction Cycles have Ritchey Pro front hubs on sale for £20 at the moment. Hub weighed 130gms without QR.

j_gantzer wrote:For edge rims qbp says use the erd and add 8mm to the spoke lenght

I don't know why they are giving the wrong erd and then telling you to add to the spoke lengths. I looked up what QBP lists as the erd for the 45mm Edge rims and they have it listed 18mm shorter then it actually is. Edge has the correct erd listed on there website.

What you measured is just the internal rim diameter at the nipple bed. The ERD is this measurement PLUS the threaded length of the nipple.

Edge are quoting the correct figure for Pillar bullet nosed hex nips. But as Legs11 says, don't be too surprised if this varies +/- 1mm or so due to the inconsistency of the nipple bed thickness. Average it out around the whole rim. With a 24h rim, thats only 12 ERD's to measure.

Same goes for an alloy rim, especially older ones. They won't be entirely round so do the measuring a few times. Older sprints vary a lot between batches too (+/- 4mm sometimes). that can throw your spoke lengths out by 2mm so assume nothing with ERD's.

Alfie wrote:How do you measure ERD on rims that have internal nipples?

The same as any other wheel. To make it simple, cut the J off some long spokes, measure the total length of both spokes, and then screw on the nipples to the low side of where you want them to be. Measure the overlap and subtract from the total length.

Great thread . I'm new to wheelbuilding as well, so this comes in very handy.

My first try will be a rear wheel for a fixie build. The hub is a Miche Xpress (track style) hub, the rim a Mavic CXP33.

Is it OK to use a rim from an old wheelset, as long as it's still in good shape? (have a ultegra9v/cxp33 wheelset that's collecting dust)
And the nipples, can they be recycled? If so, I'd only need new spokes, since the Miche hubs have higher flanges..
With 32h and no dish, this should be a straight forward build, right?

This is my Bike. There are many like it, but this one is mine. Without me, my bike is useless. Without my bike, I am useless.

Grimpeur wrote:Great thread . I'm new to wheelbuilding as well, so this comes in very handy.

My first try will be a rear wheel for a fixie build. The hub is a Miche Xpress (track style) hub, the rim a Mavic CXP33.

Is it OK to use a rim from an old wheelset, as long as it's still in good shape? (have a ultegra9v/cxp33 wheelset that's collecting dust) And the nipples, can they be recycled? If so, I'd only need new spokes, since the Miche hubs have higher flanges.. With 32h and no dish, this should be a straight forward build, right?

That will indeed be a fairly easy build. Don't reuse the nipples They cost nex to nothing

fettling wrote:I was given this tip by an experienced wheelbuilder at East Street Cycles in Farnham (UK). He recommended using linseed oil at threadlock.

I have been doing this on a number of wheel builds recently and it works really well. I dip the thread of the spoke in linseed oil bofore lacing, remove any excess by touching the thread to a bit of newspaper.

Linseed oil (a.k.a. "flax seed oil") is a natural oil that many think is harmeless. But many are not aware that things like rags or newspapers soaked in linseed oil can be a big fire hazard and start a spontaneous combustion if not handled correctly. So do not just throw a linseed soaked rag or newspaper in the garbage can or you risk a spontaneous combustion.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linseed_oi ... combustion

Spontaneous combustion

Rags soaked with linseed oil are considered a fire hazard because they provide a large surface area for oxidation of the oil. The oxidation of linseed oil is an exothermic reaction which accelerates as the temperature of the rags increases. If rate of heat accumulation exceeds the rate of dissipation, this reaction may eventually become sufficiently hot to cause spontaneous combustion of the rags. Linseed oil soaked rags should never be stored, least of all in an enclosed container. Instead, rags should be washed, soaked with water, or incinerated. A fire that destroyed the El Rey Theater-Golden West Saloon in February 2008 was ignited by the spontaneous combustion of linseed oil soaked rags left in a plastic container. [19]