Which one would you choose and why? This is the list ive pretty much narrowed it down too because all can be had for about mid $3's a month. Wether it be financing, lease assumption etc. Im also open to suggestions if anyone has any.

I'm not a fan of the Civic Si's design. The proportions aren't athletic at all. FWD = Wrong wheel drive. It lacks torque. I HATE the interior (fyi, I used to own an '06 EX Coupe) with its stupid digital readout. The brakes are subpar. It's a Civic. The list can go on.

The R32 at least has some grunt and AWD to boot. Not to mention you can find some tasteful mods for the MkV body style. And the interior is LEAGUES better. The seats aren't even comparable.

IMO, there isn't much of a performance difference betwen the base civic SI and the mugen version. I would definately look at the civic si. I would drive both to see what you would prefer.

Yeah. Im sure the performance difference is minimal. But it looks so much better . As for the r32. It definitely has more refinement, but i REALLY cant stand automatic. Ive had 2 automatic cars in a row and i cant take it anymore. So boring to drive. I really think that i may have to stop being a cheapo and look at cars that cost a few more bux a month because i'm really not gravy about any of these 3 . For the past 5 months Ive been picking my brain like crazy of wtf to get. I can pick up a lightly used c6 Vette for 500 a month. Or maybe an old z06 for about the same. But the problem there is no warranty. So looks like im back to square 1 of being clueless

The VW cars are the only way forward, but choosing between them is much more difficult.

I've spent a lot of time behind the wheel of both cars and I would personally pick the Mk6 GTI for a number of reasons. It's got handling that feels more alive in your hands, it's every bit as quick (trust me), it's options are more luxurious and it feels as if it's from a higher price level that's more equal to an Audi or a BMW. The extremely economical, mid thirties is easily achievable and it's got cult status and heritage that the R32 doesn't quite have yet.

If you pick the R32 instead then I can easily understand why, it's a V6 with a sweeter note, fuel prices aren't UK standards yet and it's bodykit is equally as good with arguably the better looking alloys. Also AWD means that if you did tune it the chassis could easily cope with the power that much better, but in stock form it's no quicker.

Genesis Coupe if you can get past driving a Hyundai. RWD, turbo, LSD, Brembos, manual, 19" alloys, ridiculous amount of lux features for low $20s.

I'd take that over any of the other options for sure. Honestly though, in this price range, I'd probably go for a Mustang GT. It's the bang for the buck winner, and the aftermarket is so huge it makes them pretty cost effective to modify.

I'd take that over any of the other options for sure. Honestly though, in this price range, I'd probably go for a Mustang GT. It's the bang for the buck winner, and the aftermarket is so huge it makes them pretty cost effective to modify.

Please don't take this personally but I have come to the conclusion that most US member value 'bang for the buck' beyond most everything else and what you call 'bang per buck' I call it 'cheap and cheerful'. As such then most European/German brands will always come off second best against US/Asian brands.

Another thing that seem to be more common in the US is modifying cars instead of leaving them stock as is more common here, this actually surprises me considering most cars are leased.

Please don't take this personally but I have come to the conclusion that most US member value 'bang for the buck' beyond most everything else and what you call 'bang per buck' I call it 'cheap and cheerful'. As such then most European/German brands will always come off second best against US/Asian brands.

Another thing that seem to be more common in the US is modifying cars instead of leaving them stock as is more common here, this actually surprises me considering most cars are leased.

The new Mustang GT is properly done. My only complaints with the interior stem from the storage compartments; the plastic looks cheap, feels cheap, and is fitted somewhat poorly.

The noise the car makes is infinitely better than any of those turbo'd fours or N/A V6s though. It's also making near-identical performance numbers in comparison to the 335i, and that's including parameters other than accelaration.

Please don't take this personally but I have come to the conclusion that most US member value 'bang for the buck' beyond most everything else and what you call 'bang per buck' I call it 'cheap and cheerful'. As such then most European/German brands will always come off second best against US/Asian brands.

Another thing that seem to be more common in the US is modifying cars instead of leaving them stock as is more common here, this actually surprises me considering most cars are leased.

Translated, that means we value performance over interior luxuries in many cases, and I'd agree with you. Keep in mine that the person asking the question is in the US. It's a matter of personal preference though. I like a little bit of both, but at the same time, I'll take a hit on interior refinement for a significant increase in performance at the same price point.

Vehicle ownership in the US most likely costs a lot less (when considering disposable income of the average buyer) than most of Europe, so that might explain why it's more common to modify them. We also have a more car oriented culture in general, with a lot of variety.

The new Mustang GT is properly done. My only complaints with the interior stem from the storage compartments; the plastic looks cheap, feels cheap, and is fitted somewhat poorly.

The noise the car makes is infinitely better than any of those turbo'd fours or N/A V6s though. It's also making near-identical performance numbers in comparison to the 335i, and that's including parameters other than accelaration.

Unfortunately too many people look at facts and figures without knowing that there is a lot more than just this. Cars like the Mustang may well corner as well as a 335 but this is purely a figure and has nothing to do with the quality of the chassis or it's suspension. Basically fit wide enough rubber and you will get anything to corner at speed; this is how the Mustang is doing it.

When you complain about FWD being the wrong driven wheels then I would expect that the handling of the chassis should be of equal importance. In fact I would much prefer a great handling chassis that's FWD instead of a poorly executed RWD chassis that can simply corner quickly.

This is why I use the term 'cheap and cheerful', it not only it meant to explain the quality but the execution of the enginnering.

I thought about Genesis coupe as well. But i really cant get past it being a Hyundai. I really am not a brand bitch boy. But ... Hyundai...I just cant do it. And as for the Mustang GT i really love the new one. But the payment would be closer to 500 a month. And knowing the new motor is only months away really would make me upset if i was to pick up a 2010 and spend all that money on the old outdated 4.6L. Ive also been tossing around the idea of a 135i, i dont mind the look of the car, but i have this certain Masculinity level i need to meet every month , and i think with a 135i i may feel a bit girly.

I thought about Genesis coupe as well. But i really cant get past it being a Hyundai. I really am not a brand bitch boy. But ... Hyundai...I just cant do it. And as for the Mustang GT i really love the new one. But the payment would be closer to 500 a month. And knowing the new motor is only months away really would make me upset if i was to pick up a 2010 and spend all that money on the old outdated 4.6L. Ive also been tossing around the idea of a 135i, i dont mind the look of the car, but i have this certain Masculinity level i need to meet every month , and i think with a 135i i may feel a bit girly.

understood but i don't really see the civic si as being manly, more boyish if you had to pick a category.

Unfortunately too many people look at facts and figures without knowing that there is a lot more than just this. Cars like the Mustang may well corner as well as a 335 but this is purely a figure and has nothing to do with the quality of the chassis or it's suspension. Basically fit wide enough rubber and you will get anything to corner at speed; this is how the Mustang is doing it.

When you complain about FWD being the wrong driven wheels then I would expect that the handling of the chassis should be of equal importance. In fact I would much prefer a great handling chassis that's FWD instead of a poorly executed RWD chassis that can simply corner quickly.

This is why I use the term 'cheap and cheerful', it not only it meant to explain the quality but the execution of the enginnering.

I'd like for you to specify where exactly the "execution of engineering" of entry-level European/German automobiles is superior.

I'd like for you to specify where exactly the "execution of engineering" of entry-level European/German automobiles is superior.

LIVE REAR AXLE

Come on, what more do you need as evidence.

When the rest of the world dropped this like a hot potato Ford continued to use it on their mainstay bread and butter performance car. The cost involve to switch to independent rear suspension would have been small per car, given the numbers involved. Sadly this type of thing is evident throughout the US car industry, usually small saving to keep the products cheap but at the expense of quality or sophisticated engineering. Brute force can only take you so far, that's why I call the comment of 'Bang per buck' as 'Cheap and cheerful'.

The R32 is my first choice, however it isn't performance that does it for me on this one. The 2010 GTI is actually the best performer of the three, minor mods will net you significantly increased numbers on the dyno and it has been proven that even the 5th gen GTI out does the R32 with bolt ons.

R32 for it's exhaust note, 4 motion but not for the DSG... DSG = fail compared to the 6 speed.

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gentle now the tender breeze blows, whispers through my Gran Torino, whistling another tired song, engine humms and bitter dreams grow, heart locked in a Gran Torino, it beats a lonely rhythm all night long

Well now you are talking about HP and size of rubber. If you honestly believe that the Mustang is sophisticated driver's car with incredible handling then I do need some of the stuff you are smoking..............no offence.