Just a heads up to everyone that kw is spending an hour on talking baseball with bruce levine and john rooney.

Brian26

04-04-2004, 11:45 AM

Good stuff so far. A caller asked Kenny about giving away great arms over the past 5 years, and KW almost blew his top about the Kipper/Fogg trade. He said Kip just didn't have the makeup to pitch in Chicago, and Fogg's been .500 with a 4-something ERA in the NL, which translates to a 5-something ERA in the AL.

Hangar18

04-04-2004, 11:50 AM

Wright and Schoenweise are going to be "split up" in the rotation says Kenny right now. KW feels the SOX have 3 pitchers that can win 15 Games. He says Schoen and Wright hes expecting big things from ..........

Hangar18

04-04-2004, 11:51 AM

Originally posted by Brian26
Good stuff so far. A caller asked Kenny about giving away great arms over the past 5 years, and KW almost blew his top about the Kipper/Fogg trade. He said Kip just didn't have the makeup to pitch in Chicago, and Fogg's been .500 with a 4-something ERA in the NL, which translates to a 5-something ERA in the AL.

Yes.....I heard that and was going to Comment on that. Even Kenny realizes the NL is a bogus league .........

Hangar18

04-04-2004, 11:53 AM

KW was asked why Maddux wasnt pursued. KW started to Laugh, and said the guy is at the end of his career, and he inferred that there was No Way Maddux wanted to come to the American League and face some real potent lineups, and have to face a DH, instead of another pitcher (and he laughed some more, LevineLine snickered a bit too). hahahah, that was funny, Maddux seemed to know he'd get his A** Kicked if he came to the AL lol

Rex Hudler

04-04-2004, 11:54 AM

Originally posted by Brian26
Good stuff so far. A caller asked Kenny about giving away great arms over the past 5 years, and KW almost blew his top about the Kipper/Fogg trade. He said Kip just didn't have the makeup to pitch in Chicago, and Fogg's been .500 with a 4-something ERA in the NL, which translates to a 5-something ERA in the AL.

That's crap. Kenny didn't have the patience to allow a young pitcher to develop. They have questioned Jon Garland's makeup for three years now and you don't see them trading him for that reason (other than the failed attempt to the Angels).

I do agree that Fogg whiule he may have made a nice pitcher in the pen, would not likely have had the opportunity to start for the Sox. But he certainly had value at that time.

Sean Lowe was also coming off a good season the year before that trade and despite the fact he hasn't done squat since, he had value as a bullpen guy who could spot start here and there.

KW can try and justify that trade all he wants, but it was a terrible, terrible trade. The day he made it and now.

Hangar18

04-04-2004, 11:54 AM

Caller asked if he had Regrets for Keeping Manuel so long last year. KW said he couldnt really comment out of respect for Jerry, but that he "regretted across the board, not bringing back the Prize".

Rex Hudler

04-04-2004, 11:56 AM

Originally posted by Hangar18
Wright and Schoenweise are going to be "split up" in the rotation says Kenny right now. KW feels the SOX have 3 pitchers that can win 15 Games. He says Schoen and Wright hes expecting big things from ..........

He is going to stick with Schoenweis until he bites him in the ass, I guess. The "I've been wanting him for 3 years" comment tells me a lot about KW. Maybe he will surprise me, but Schoenweis has never been a good pitcher. And I don't see him doing so this year either.

Hangar18

04-04-2004, 11:58 AM

Caller just asked if theyre going to Keep MAGGS. KW said theyre not interested in losing good players. KW said if they wouldve signed Colon, they wouldve had to trade another HiSalaried Player, (and LeVineLine said it wouldve been a certain outfielder and laughed, and KW laughed uncomfortably)
KW said the SOX "arent the darlings" in the Media, and dont get the Publicity (hmmm, whereve we heard this before?) they should, so they are "flying under the radar". He said since they cant SPend for players, they will TRADE for them.

KW said hes used to SOX fans "pounding on me" and is surprised by the tone of fans calling in today....most are complimenting him on last years trades

Hangar18

04-04-2004, 12:01 PM

Caller said he was at ST with his daughter, and said some players blew them off for Autographs, and wants KW to comment. KW said he was sorry and apologized for that. KW said he sees SOX players autographing all the time and are the most accomodating in the Major Leagues. Levineline told the caller to Email him, and he'd make sure the daughter gets the autographs. KW said its unfortunate that that happens
sometimes, but the players dont mean it, good explanation actually.

Hangar18

04-04-2004, 12:07 PM

KW just left, kind of nice to hear SOX baseball being talked, but I was kind of wishing the Callers wouldve asked some BETTER Questions, but oh well. Bruce LeVineLine kind of stepped out a bit in this segment, laughing about Maddux and putting his 2 cents in about Signing Maggs, which he said Maggs wants 4 years and Maggs Knows this will be the BESTTIME for him to get the Max Amount in a Contract, thats why he wants 4 or 5 years,
but Came out and said the SOX only Offered him a 3 Year Deal last year, I noted how KW didnt say Anything at All when LeVineline said that.

CubKilla

04-04-2004, 12:09 PM

Originally posted by Rex Hudler
That's crap. Kenny didn't have the patience to allow a young pitcher to develop. They have questioned Jon Garland's makeup for three years now and you don't see them trading him for that reason (other than the failed attempt to the Angels).

I do agree that Fogg whiule he may have made a nice pitcher in the pen, would not likely have had the opportunity to start for the Sox. But he certainly had value at that time.

Sean Lowe was also coming off a good season the year before that trade and despite the fact he hasn't done squat since, he had value as a bullpen guy who could spot start here and there.

KW can try and justify that trade all he wants, but it was a terrible, terrible trade. The day he made it and now.

Amen bro. KW can bash K Wells, Fogg, and Lowe all he wants. Fact of the matter is I'd rather have either of the 3 of them than that piece of garbage Ritchie.

It's amusing that KW rips on Maddux..... that he's a NL pitcher on the downswing of his career..... but he traded 3 young arms for a NL pitcher with a 4+ ERA and an under .500 record IN THE NATIONAL LEAGUE.

KW is a friggin' moron.

frontrunner3

04-04-2004, 12:19 PM

At least kw was man enough to step up to the plate. How many gm's would endure an open forum such as that? I'd venture to say not too many. It seemed like he went out of his way to answer each question honestly and completely. I was impressed. There were some tougher questions that could've been asked like for instance who that mystery man was that he was referring to last week that needed to pick it up or else. Whoo hooo Hendry spent a whopping 10 mins under the gun.

RedPinStripes

04-04-2004, 01:06 PM

As muchg as we like to twist everything that is said by KW, you have to admit he's honest and at least talks to us. Schu never got on the radio once every few weeks.

I'm not defending JR here at all when i say that KW has done good with what he's given money wise. Yeah, there was the ritchie trade, Clayton pickup and some other goof ups. KW did a great job with this team last year. The only one i really miss out of that bunch is Robby.

gosox41

04-04-2004, 01:57 PM

Originally posted by Brian26
Good stuff so far. A caller asked Kenny about giving away great arms over the past 5 years, and KW almost blew his top about the Kipper/Fogg trade. He said Kip just didn't have the makeup to pitch in Chicago, and Fogg's been .500 with a 4-something ERA in the NL, which translates to a 5-something ERA in the AL.

Yeah, Kip lacked the makeuop if a young pitcher who was surrounded by an incompetent pitching coach as well as a manager who would undermine his confidence every chance he got., not too mention the idiot GM going into the clubhouse calling the players "M'fers".

What a nice healthy environment to pitch in. No wonder all the other young pitchers we have have been coming up and having great success.

At least Coop is there now to add some sanity to an insane situation.

Too bad the caller didn't ask about the Foulke/Koch trade to save a whopping $1 mill..

Bob

gosox41

04-04-2004, 01:59 PM

Originally posted by Rex Hudler
He is going to stick with Schoenweis until he bites him in the ass, I guess. The "I've been wanting him for 3 years" comment tells me a lot about KW. Maybe he will surprise me, but Schoenweis has never been a good pitcher. And I don't see him doing so this year either.

KW must have a crappy eye for talent if Schoenweis is a guy he has wanted for 3 years.

If Schoenweis fails this year as a starter (which I expect he will) it serves a microcosm of KW's reign as GM of this team.

Bob

dickallen15

04-04-2004, 02:31 PM

I always find Levineline's tone interestingly different when he talks about the White Sox with someone from that organization on with him, and when its just him and Rooney, or if he's on one of the other shows.

Frank the Tank

04-04-2004, 02:53 PM

Originally posted by gosox41

Too bad the caller didn't ask about the Foulke/Koch trade to save a whopping $1 mill..

Bob

Are you kidding? I don't remember anyone complaining when Koch was signed, fans or analysts. Foulke was almost chased out of town for having a terrible season and Koch was the Rolaids relief man of the year that was a consistent 30+ save a season closer. Don't get me wrong, Koch proved terrible........but lets be fair.

Dan H

04-04-2004, 04:02 PM

I don't hate Williams like some do and actuallly don't hate him at all, but I don't like listening to him when he hides behind having no money. If they don't have the money, maybe they should sell. As far as media coverage goes, they could get more if they wanted more. Trouble is they want it on their terms only.

manuelsucks

04-04-2004, 04:16 PM

Originally posted by gosox41
If Schoenweis fails this year as a starter (which I expect he will) it serves a microcosm of KW's reign as GM of this team.

I can't disagree more with that statement. I agree, Schoenweis probably will fail, but I just don't see how that could sum up his whole reign as GM. He has tired to bring good talent to the Sox and certainly doesn't hold onto the bad for too long. He's not a horrible GM he just has to deal with JR's bull.

Brian26

04-04-2004, 04:43 PM

Originally posted by Hangar18
Caller said he was at ST with his daughter, and said some players blew them off for Autographs, and wants KW to comment. KW said he was sorry and apologized for that. KW said he sees SOX players autographing all the time and are the most accomodating in the Major Leagues. Levineline told the caller to Email him, and he'd make sure the daughter gets the autographs. KW said its unfortunate that that happens
sometimes, but the players dont mean it, good explanation actually.

Sorry I had to log off...had to run some errands this afternoon. I did hear that question and KW answer, and I agree it was an excellent explanation. Fact is, and KW said, certain players could stand out there after a game and sign autographs for 45 minutes for 100 different people, but at some point they have to get going. And, if person #101 misses out on an autograph, they feel let down and the other 100 people don't count. The Sox generally do a heck of a job signing autographs, but it's obviously a tough situation and you can't always please everyone. You generally don't hear a thank you from the 100 people you signed for, but you usually do hear a complaint from the 101st person who was just missed. Bruce Levine did give his email address (was it like b.w.levine@abc.com?) and said he'd take care of things for the father and daughter if they emailed her.

gosox41

04-04-2004, 05:08 PM

Originally posted by Frank the Tank
Are you kidding? I don't remember anyone complaining when Koch was signed, fans or analysts. Foulke was almost chased out of town for having a terrible season and Koch was the Rolaids relief man of the year that was a consistent 30+ save a season closer. Don't get me wrong, Koch proved terrible........but lets be fair.

I think I can say with pride that I am one of the most outspoken individals here about the Koch trade....from the day it was made!!.

I ask regulars like Torn Labrum, Daver, SEAL, JoeCrede. Lip or anyone else that's been here to veryify this. I was once dubbed as my specialty in this website as the guy to complain about this trade.

When the trade was made I expressed concern about Koch suffering from "Bobby Thigpenitis" as well as the fact that he was statistically worse then Foulke in just about every important category to begin with.

Bob

gosox41

04-04-2004, 05:10 PM

Originally posted by manuelsucks
I can't disagree more with that statement. I agree, Schoenweis probably will fail, but I just don't see how that could sum up his whole reign as GM. He has tired to bring good talent to the Sox and certainly doesn't hold onto the bad for too long. He's not a horrible GM he just has to deal with JR's bull.

I don't consider Schoenweis good talnet. Nor do I consider Ritchie good talent. Same with Royce. Same with Paniagua. Same with Koch. For 2004, Same with Shingo. Same with Uribe....

Bob

OEO Magglio

04-04-2004, 05:30 PM

Originally posted by gosox41
I don't consider Schoenweis good talnet. Nor do I consider Ritchie good talent. Same with Royce. Same with Paniagua. Same with Koch. For 2004, Same with Shingo. Same with Uribe....

Damas was a good move. The jury is still out on Olivo, but consider this was a team trying to win the last few years and needed bullpen help. We think Olivo can be good, but a .288 OBP so far doesn't make the move as good as the Marte move.

The other moves were good. But bottom line is KW inherited a team that won 95 games and the AL Central and has nothing to show for it accept a few second place finishes.

I still contend that if KW had sat on his hands the last few year's and done absolutely zero trades this team would be in better shape today.

Last, it seems were stuck with KW's bonehead moves while his good moves are only with us for a short period of time (except for Marte)

Bob

pudge

04-04-2004, 06:40 PM

Originally posted by Frank the Tank
Are you kidding? I don't remember anyone complaining when Koch was signed, fans or analysts. Foulke was almost chased out of town for having a terrible season and Koch was the Rolaids relief man of the year that was a consistent 30+ save a season closer. Don't get me wrong, Koch proved terrible........but lets be fair.

There were very concerned voices when that trade happened, many of them right here on WSI. Foulke had pitched very well at the end of 2002 despite his blunders earlier on. Koch has never posted impressive stats, just look at his season-by-season ERA or WHIP.

pudge

04-04-2004, 06:42 PM

Originally posted by gosox41
I don't consider Schoenweis good talnet. Nor do I consider Ritchie good talent. Same with Royce. Same with Paniagua. Same with Koch. For 2004, Same with Shingo. Same with Uribe....

Bob

I agree, KW is really weird sometimes, he gets fixated on a certain guy and can't except failure.... I wish he would step up and admit the Ritchie trade was horrible, but I guess you have to believe in your own philosophy if you're going to survive as a GM.

Brian26

04-04-2004, 06:54 PM

Originally posted by pudge
There were very concerned voices when that trade happened, many of them right here on WSI. Foulke had pitched very well at the end of 2002 despite his blunders earlier on. Koch has never posted impressive stats, just look at his season-by-season ERA or WHIP.

WSI was split down the middle on the Koch/Foulke trade. Remember Foulke's ability to clench defeat from the hands of victory throughout 2001 and 2002. Many, many people here felt like he was washed up. Don't ever forget the 2001 or 2002 meltdown in Minnesota by Foulke.

santo=dorf

04-04-2004, 06:54 PM

Originally posted by gosox41
But bottom line is KW inherited a team that won 95 games and the AL Central and has nothing to show for it accept a few second place finishes.

Don't forget that the 2000 team had a payroll of 30 million and we supposedly had the #1 farm system.

TornLabrum

04-04-2004, 06:57 PM

Originally posted by gosox41
I think I can say with pride that I am one of the most outspoken individals here about the Koch trade....from the day it was made!!.

I ask regulars like Torn Labrum, Daver, SEAL, JoeCrede. Lip or anyone else that's been here to veryify this. I was once dubbed as my specialty in this website as the guy to complain about this trade.

When the trade was made I expressed concern about Koch suffering from "Bobby Thigpenitis" as well as the fact that he was statistically worse then Foulke in just about every important category to begin with.

Bob

Yup, Bob, you were agin it, even moreso than I. But I proudly point out that I was the person who quoted the Oakland writer that their losing Koch was not necessarily a bad thing for them.

Hangar18

04-04-2004, 11:40 PM

Whats most DISTURBING, is the reason we made that trade.

What SOX told us: to get a "real" closer
What SOX didnt tell us: to save money

Originally posted by pudge
I agree, KW is really weird sometimes, he gets fixated on a certain guy and can't except failure.... I wish he would step up and admit the Ritchie trade was horrible, but I guess you have to believe in your own philosophy if you're going to survive as a GM.

Based on what I read here about his Kip Wells comments he kind of did admit that. He said something about Wells having a 4 something ERA in the NL which would translate to close to 5 something in the AL. Ritchie had an ERA in the 4's and came here and got lit up.

That may be as close as KW comes to admitting he made a bad trade.

But to me his worst trade is still the Koch/Foulke trade. In 2002, Foulke pitched much better then Koch. And he proved he could handle the closers role last year in Oakland.

Bob

gosox41

04-05-2004, 08:27 AM

Originally posted by Hangar18
Whats most DISTURBING, is the reason we made that trade.

What SOX told us: to get a "real" closer
What SOX didnt tell us: to save money

And the trade only saved the team $1 mill. Oakland and the Sox split the difference in the two salaries.

For the record, I think Koch and Foulke are making the same money this year.

Lastly, there is no such thing as a real closer. This image of a hard throwing one inning specialist exists but is more hype. You don't need it. Look at guys like Eckersley or Foulke.

All that matters from a reliever (or any pitcher) can be measured in different forms with 3 variables: BB's, Hits, and K's. Keep the first 2 low as possible and the third one as high as possible and it will have a positive correlation on ERA and ultimately wins.

Maybe KW thought of Foulke as he did K. Wells: A young pitcher who couldn't succeed in Chicago. Of course that may have something to do with a manager who would undermine a young pitcher's confidence every chance he got, an incompetenet pitching coach (until Coop got here), and a GM who has been known to come into the clubhouses after tough losses (maybe even games in which Foulke blew a save) and call the players B's and MF'ers.

Maybe that's why so many young pitchers don't live up to their potential here.

Bob

gosox41

04-05-2004, 08:28 AM

Originally posted by TornLabrum
Yup, Bob, you were agin it, even moreso than I. But I proudly point out that I was the person who quoted the Oakland writer that their losing Koch was not necessarily a bad thing for them.

Thank you Torn, it's nice to see someone recognizes my obsession. :D:

Bob

rahulsekhar

04-05-2004, 10:33 AM

Originally posted by gosox41
But bottom line is KW inherited a team that won 95 games and the AL Central and has nothing to show for it accept a few second place finishes.

I still contend that if KW had sat on his hands the last few year's and done absolutely zero trades this team would be in better shape today.

Last, it seems were stuck with KW's bonehead moves while his good moves are only with us for a short period of time (except for Marte)

Bob

That's one way to look at it. Another is that he inherited a team that was under .500 in the 2d half of 2k and hasn't been able to take them forward.

If I remember correctly, many/most here look at 2k as a somewhat fluky 1st half that led to a title. Not exactly a traditional division winner that could be expected to repeat.

longwood

04-05-2004, 02:29 PM

Originally posted by Frank the Tank
Are you kidding? I don't remember anyone complaining when Koch was signed, fans or analysts. Foulke was almost chased out of town for having a terrible season and Koch was the Rolaids relief man of the year that was a consistent 30+ save a season closer. Don't get me wrong, Koch proved terrible........but lets be fair.

Foulke had 2 bad months in the first half of that year. Go back and look at the stats. If I remember correctly, his ERA for the 2nd half was the best in the league. I thought it was a bad trade.

soxtalker

04-05-2004, 02:56 PM

Originally posted by Frank the Tank
Are you kidding? I don't remember anyone complaining when Koch was signed, fans or analysts. Foulke was almost chased out of town for having a terrible season and Koch was the Rolaids relief man of the year that was a consistent 30+ save a season closer. Don't get me wrong, Koch proved terrible........but lets be fair.

I don't remember it this way at all. Foulke was demoted pretty quickly the year before from his closer role by Sox management. Now, I'm not sure of the fan reaction when he was traded Koch, but I think it was much more muted than for other trades. What I do remember, however, was a posting by an Oakland fan, telling us how happy he was that Koch was out of town. It seems that Koch had a reputation for constantly keeping fans on the edge of their seats. He got a lot of saves that year with Oakland, but he always seemed to take the game within a pitch or two of disaster. Now, I don't know if we can say that has been his style here, as he had so much trouble with the reduced speed.