1Q.
[Mr Irving]
Thank you. And on the page 12 -- I am sorry, it is the 2same document. So, if these items come from an SS folder 3which is called Operation Reinhardt and these particular 4documents have the initials "Reinh." on them, and they 5appear to be items stolen from the Jews or from victims, 6Jewish victims in fact, depending on the subject line, on 7the face of it, this is a list provided to Himmler of 8items that have been stolen from the Jews up to April 30th 91943. Is that a reasonable interpretation? 10A.
[Professor Christopher Robert Browning]
In terms of the inventory in the first document where we 11do not have the reference to Reinhardt, it is at least 12conceivable this was property taken from German Jews about 13to be deported, and could easily have been stuck in the 14same folder. I do not see anything there that would 15necessarily lead us to conclude that the first inventory 16came from camps in Poland. It could well be that this was 17possessed Jewish property taken while Jews were being in 18the process of being deported from Germany, but stuck in 19the same folder because it always was relating to Jewish 20property. 21Q.
[Mr Irving]
Do you know what happened to these valuables that were 22collected in Operation Reinhardt? Where did they go 23initially? 24A.
[Professor Christopher Robert Browning]
I have seen documents that show a wide variety of 25distribution. 26Q.
[Mr Irving]
Where they overhauled, were they recycled in some way

. P-6

1before they were parcelled out? 2A.
[Professor Christopher Robert Browning]
Once collected at the three camps in Poland they are taken 3to Lublin where you have several camps, the old airport 4camp, for instance, where some sorting and reconditioning 5was done. Some of the properties were distributed there 6to ethnic Germans and any German unit that needs something 7can come and ask to be given something. 8Q.
[Mr Irving]
Can I take you to document 10? 9A.
[Professor Christopher Robert Browning]
Yes. 10Q.
[Mr Irving]
Does this say that they have a number of, 20,000, pocket 11watches and various other valuables at present at 12Oranienburg, and does the next paragraph say that the 13watches and fountain pens have been overhauled and are 14ready to be dispatched? 15A.
[Professor Christopher Robert Browning]
The topic of the document is watch distribution to members 16of the SS. 17Q.
[Mr Irving]
Yes. 18A.
[Professor Christopher Robert Browning]
And then below they give you the different kinds. Would 19you allow me a moment to read the document? 20Q.
[Mr Irving]
Would you read the paragraph beginning with the word 21"Insgesamt"? 22A.
[Professor Christopher Robert Browning]
Yes. At the moment in Office D there are for repair 23100,000 hand wristwatches, 39,000 pocket watches, 7,500 24alarm clocks, 37,000 pens and so forth. 25Q.
[Mr Irving]
There is no indication of any other stocks of valuables of 26this nature being processed by this central processing and

. P-7

1overhauling department? 2MR JUSTICE GRAY: Do we have all the files, all the documents 3in the files? I take the point you are making. 4MR IRVING: This was all the documents in this file. I picked 5them in California about five or six weeks ago. 6MR JUSTICE GRAY: Is the file complete? Is it intact? 7MR IRVING: I have no way of knowing, of course, my Lord. 8MR JUSTICE GRAY: That is the problem. I see what are you 9getting at. Professor Browning, can you help on that? Is 10this likely to be a complete record? We have only looked 11at three documents. 12A.
[Professor Christopher Robert Browning]
Since so much was destroyed I think we presume a lot of 13them are not complete records. I have seen fragmentary 14records from the archive in Lublin where less valuable 15materials is distributed there. I think very valuable 16things like watches and whatever do have to be sent in 17but, if somebody wants furniture or wants clothing, they 18can requisition that in Lublin from these camps and they 19are never sent back to Berlin. Small volume high value 20items would be sent back. It would be something that 21would be worth shipping back, such as these particular 22items. 23MR IRVING: Do you agree that this document on page 10, which 24is dated November 29th 1944, and has the heading or 25subheading Operation Reinhardt in its address list, says 26that altogether at present there are at Amtsgruppe D at

. P-8

1present being repaired 100,000 wristwatches, presumably a 2rounded off number and various other valuables? 3A.
[Professor Christopher Robert Browning]
Yes. 4Q.
[Mr Irving]
That gives an order of magnitude. It does not indicate 5there are any other treasure troves of such valuables 6anywhere else in the SS system, does it? 7A.
[Professor Christopher Robert Browning]
It says these are the ones that are available for 8distribution. We have no idea if there are lots of other 9kinds of valuables that have been sent elsewhere, but at 10least that much has been taken out for purposes of 11distribution to the SS. 12Q.
[Mr Irving]
Can I take you back to page 1 again, which is about 18 13month earlier, is it not, 13th May 1943? 14A.
[Professor Christopher Robert Browning]
Yes. 15Q.
[Mr Irving]
That says that by April 30th 1943 we have received, 16effectively there have been delivered to us, 94,000 men's 17watches? 18A.
[Professor Christopher Robert Browning]
Yes. 19Q.
[Mr Irving]
Is it likely that these were taken from the victims in the 20camps? 21A.
[Professor Christopher Robert Browning]
Again, it may well be that these were taken in Germany. 22It could be possible they were taken from the camp. In 23both, at least in the second case, I would presume that 24there was a selection of the best ones that they were 25sending back for repair for the Waffen SS. Cheaper goods 26in general would not have been worth doing that.

. P-9

1MR JUSTICE GRAY: Does page 10, Professor, relate entirely to 2Oranienburg? 3MR IRVING: Oranienburg, my Lord, was the headquarters was it 4not? Witness, was not Pohl actually based at Oranienburg, 5the head of this particular section? 6A.
[Professor Christopher Robert Browning]
The part of the administrative and economic main office 7that dealt with concentration camps is in Oranienburg, so 8Ampt D, which is here, is stationed in Oranienburg, or at 9least part of it. It says by the Office D in Oranienburg 10so we know at least they have one office there. 11Q.
[Mr Irving]
All the wealthy Holocaust victims, either at the time they 12were dispatched from their places of residence or upon 13their arrival in the camps, were systematically robbed of 14their valuables by Operation Reinhardt, or as part of 15Operation Reinhardt? Is that correct? 16A.
[Professor Christopher Robert Browning]
Operation Reinhardt, in a sense, is the last stage of a 17long process of dispossession because the Jews in Germany 18were disposed of much of their property for that. When 19they were put on the trains the last things like rings and 20valuables and jewellery are taken. These are the small 21personal possessions they would still have been allowed. 22Again in Poland Jews are dispossessed of their property 23and moved into ghettoes and, when they are taken to the 24camps, the last remaining possessions are taken by 25Operation Reinhardt. Operation Reinhardt, in a sense, is 26the last cleaning up of whatever property had not been