Peter, I am here to try and preserve my culture. My desire is to teach. People oohing and aahing over my pizzas has absolutely no bearing on the information I'm attempting to convey. When people go out, purchase steel plate and make superior pizzas based on my advice, they don't say, "why did I take HIS advice, he has no photos!". Questioning my credentials/contribution based on my lack of photos is an incredible insult. I may, at some point, write a book, but I would NEVER withhold knowledge, especially when that knowledge can help save my treasured pizza.

In other words, this is not a similar vein. I'm not attempting to force Marco to convey more information than he is willing to disclose, I am merely pointing out that lack of disclosure is not always the best path for preserving culture. NY pizza guys have historically been very tight lipped about their process, and, in the process, great NY pizza is now almost dead. I'm not saying Neapolitan pizza is doomed to the same fate, but if Neapolitan pizza is to be preserved, it needs great teachers willing to openly share everything- and I can think of no better potentially great teacher than Marco.

scott123,

I hear where you are coming from but it is human nature for people to want confirmation of one's skills and knowledge, especially from those who hold themselves out as having those skills and knowledge. Words alone are sometimes just not enough. They want proof, and nothing less will satisfy them. Some people entirely escape this demand. For example, I have been reading Tom Lehmann's articles and posts for about 10 years. I don't think that I have ever seen him post a photo on anything, and I have never seen anyone press or demand that he post any photos. I suspect that his many years (actually decades) of experience in the baking and pizza making industries has given him a gravitas that spares him from having to prove himself to anyone. It has never bothered me that he didn't post photos.

I think this is a perfect example where the intention may have been for the good but the execution was terrible. It could have been delivered in a clear and logical way much like how Craig recently posted about his entire process.

It could have been delivered this way.

The recent posting of pictures of blistered pizzas my indicate problems with the dough because:

I think this is a perfect example where the intention may have been for the good but the execution was terrible. It could have been delivered in a clear and logical way much like how Craig recently posted about his entire process.

It could have been delivered this way.

The recent posting of pictures of blistered pizzas my indicate problems with the dough because:

1) blah blah blah2) blah blah blah3) blah blah blah

Yeah really,the man's oven side manner leaves a bit to be desired...that is what pretty much turned me off from the start, IMHO.

Logged

"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

scott123

I hear where you are coming from but it is human nature for people to want confirmation of one's skills and knowledge, especially from those who hold themselves out as having those skills and knowledge. Words alone are sometimes just not enough. They want proof, and nothing less will satisfy them.

Is it really 'people' Peter? So far, it's only one reputable member who's called me out on this. That's 'person' not 'people'. Unless you're calling me out, which I don't think you're doing. It's one thing to say "we'd love to see a photo", as a few members in the past have said, and something entirely different to say "if you don't post photos, your credentials will be questioned."

I, as of this moment, have no still camera- and no smart phone- and no family member with a smart phone I can borrow. People like me DO exist. I bought a flip camera earlier this year with the intent to shoot videos, but haven't been pleased with the photo quality. If I had a still camera, this would have gotten done a long time ago. If I've disappointed anyone in my tardiness, I apologize. Regardless of my reasons, from this point forward, rather than keep people's hopes up and disappoint anyone further, I'm making this announcement. Until further notice, I will NOT be posting photos. If this causes anyone to doubt my credentials, go ahead and doubt away. There are plenty of members here who don't.

I have been thinking this same thing....the people Scott has helped never question him first,'I'll buy a steel plate but ya gotta post up some pics first man"...I even thought about saying, "maybe the man is handicapped or sum'thin an too embarrassed to talk about it"...I mean SHEEESH!! people...get on with your life! Chicago Bob is try'in to jus have a 'lil fun here, ya know? Aren't you....

Marco is a professional in the fact that he has made is living at least partially from pizza for quite some time (as far as I know). He has posted pictures of pizza he's made, shared info on Neapolitan pizza and here when there was hardly any place to get it and on and on.

Tom Lehman, similar story. scott123, I'm not sure.

That and the fact that he (scott123) has been at involved in most of the blow ups around here lately are why people want to know more IMO.

scott123

I heartily apologize, Scott. I really would like to see pictures of your pizzas, but it has no bearing upon the respect I have for you and your knowledge. At any rate, no excuses, I am sorry.

Tom, I accept your apology. Thank you. I apologize for the intensity of my reaction, both previously and in this thread. Normally I can sort of shrug this stuff off, but with the respect I have for you and your knowledge, the comments hit a nerve.

Now, is there any chance whatsoever that we can get this thread back on topic? I would still very much like to know how the taste and texture is negatively impacted by big spots? Andre, can you shed some light on this?

Now, is there any chance whatsoever that we can get this thread back on topic? I would still very much like to know how the taste and texture is negatively impacted by big spots? Andre, can you shed some light on this?

I am new and I don't know anything about "la vera pizza napoletana", but I am guessing Marco will post a response on the impact of big spots just assoon as we see some "professional" NY pizza photos....... (not that I care much about NY pizza.......)

There have been more threads locked on this forum in the past month than in the past several years. Also, having recently received an above-average number of Report to Moderator emails and PMs from members expressing concern about the conduct of other members, it was inevitable that Steve would become apprised of that conduct. In fact, he tried to address the matter of member conduct in the thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,20272.msg199235.html#msg199235. It has been my experience that just about any topic posted in the Forum Info board gets almost no viewers. I wondered if that would be the case with Steve's post. As one can readily see, Steve's post has gotten just 136 page views in 16 days.

Peter

Yea I noticed. I've been on here for almost 3 years and have never seen a thread locked up until a couple months ago. I thought to myself "Wow, thats a first, but its probably going to happen more often from reading recent discussions". I also remember the day Steve made that thread, I think it was couple days after that lock from Bill.

Yea I noticed. I've been on here for almost 3 years and have never seen a thread locked up until a couple months ago. I thought to myself "Wow, thats a first, but its probably going to happen more often from reading recent discussions". I also remember the day Steve made that thread, I think it was couple days after that lock from Bill.

Anyways...

Normally, when a thread is heading towards dangerous waters, we fire a warning shot over the bow of the offending parties, often via a PM. A thread is locked when the warning isn't heeded. Posts and even whole threads that violate Steve's terms have been deleted. Lately I've been locking more than deleting in the hopes that members will get a better understanding of what is considered acceptable. In a few cases, offenders have been banned. Aside from spam, personal attacks are the most common motive for moderator intervention.

We try very hard to keep this forum as friendly as possible, but for some reason that is becoming more difficult. It is not just one person that is the subject of reports to the mods. Some of you don't even realize you are the subject of complaints or discussion among the moderators and Steve since we try to keep the forum civil without a heavy hand. It would be a profound shame if this great forum were to devolve any further and more people start leaving.

Taking off the moderator hat, I will say that a great deal of the way I make pizzas is informed by marco's early posts, many since deleted. His outspoken words are full of the fierce pride and passion that Neapolitans deservedly have for their pizza. The love that other regions have for their pizza doesn't even come close.

and this place is one of Americas most recommended pizzerias?!very amazing - for me this cornicione is burnt all over.

for me leoparding is about a dark golden crust with little dark brown spots.burnt crust tastes bitter and spoils the sweetest san marzano tomatoes and even more the expesive fior di latte.why should anyone (e.g. customers) like it that way?

perhaps it's because one or the other opinion leader here (and on other big american forums) told that's the way it has to be?!and perhaps therefore Marco started this thread because the people around here maybe have the power to change opinions...