Podcast

MBA Podcaster has teamed up with the Graduate Management Admission Council to bring you an extensive series of MBAs in the working world. Just a few weeks ago in San Francisco GMAC brought together recruiters from the top high tech companies around the world to get the perspective on opportunities in the field for MBA graduates. This week we bring you Part Three: Job Opportunities in High Tech. You'll learn from leading tech company recruiters how to position yourself to get an interview, ace your interview and make a place for yourself in high tech.

Guests Include:

This week we’re featuring the third part of a special three-part series co-produced with The Graduate Management Admission Council. A little over a month ago in San Francisco, GMAT brought together recruiters from top technology companies to gain a perspective on opportunities in the field for MBA graduates. This week we bring you Part 3: Current Recruiting Trends and Job Opportunities in High Tech. You’ll hear about the industry’s employment outlook and what it means for MBA’s; you’ll hear from recruiters Kim Capps from Intuit Inc., DeAnna Christmas from IBM, Colleen McCreary from Electronic Arts, and Kim Grounds from Symantec Corp. Visit our website mbapodcaster.com to listen to all three parts of this special in-depth series and see pictures of the event.

Well, hello again and welcome to the MBA in High Tech series of podcasts about careers in high tech for MBA’s. Our topic for this program is the technology industry’s employment outlook over the next few years and what the implications of that might be for the successful job applicant. I’m your host, Mark Bisnow, from Bisnow on Business in Washington, D.C., but I have come out here direct, live in Silicon Valley. Where else can you be when you want expert advice on this subject? And we’re delighted. We’ve got four real experts in the field. They’re senior recruiters from four of the most illustrious companies around Silicon Valley—Kim Capps from Intuit which, of course, makes consumer finance software, DeAnna Christmas with IBM, Colleen McCreary who recruits for Electronic Arts which does all those video games, and Kim Grounds of Symantec which does all that Internet security. Well, thanks so much for joining us. What is the employment outlook for MBA’s, or people about to get their MBA’s in the high tech industry? I’ll just open it up.

Kim Grounds of Symantec: “It’s very good. It’s good.” Say that again. We like to hear that. “It’s very good. Times are changing. Again, my candidates, if I go to put down an offer, it seems like they have two offers on the table already. So, it’s an exciting time for MBA’s.”

Now, that’s interesting, if I can detain you for a second. If they’ve got two offers, let’s turn the table. How do you close the deal? What do you say to them? Or do you have to give them something? Relocate them? How do you get them to come work at Symantec? “It’s very easy because we are Symantec.” Mark: (Laughing) Wait a minute! That’s what the others say! “We’re the number four software company in the world. It’s our culture.” How do you get that point across? What if they’re talking to Electronic Arts and they say it’s their culture? “Well, they’ve had an opportunity by the time that we’ve presented an offer to probably interview with quite a few people that would be on their team. They’ve gotten to see the culture of the company; they’ve been to headquarters or been to the site. And it’s quite easy.”

Colleen: “And they’ve decided they don’t want to play games at work.” (Laugher.)

DeAnna Christmas of IBM, how do you think the employment outlook is looking from IBM’s point of view? “I think the employment outlook is great; specifically, for the roles that I’m interviewing and recruiting for in sales. And right now, there is a shortage of strong, consultative sales people in the workforce today. So, MBA’s that have a passion for sales in the high tech industry, and have a good handle on how to take business problems and sell them with technology—the sky’s the limit. It’s going to be a great market.”

So, how do you turn that to your advantage as a successful candidate? You get a call from IBM, but you also get calls from others. Do you start a negotiation; take everything you learned from your MBA negotiation class? “Well, yes and no.” (Laughter.) Mark: What’s your secret? Show us your hand. “Right now, it seems like quite a few MBA’s take a negotiation class in their fourth semester just before graduating, and they want to use that in the process of looking for employment. But really it’s about staying focused on what you want to do and what your passion is. And, right now, I think some of the things that I think are appealing to candidates that are interested in IBM are that we are known for our signature sales methods and consultative-selling methods and our solutions; we sell the solutions from soup to nuts; you’ve got a strong team behind you for software services and sales so that if you’re looking for sales in particular with a smaller boutique firm, they may be able to sell a very niche product but not an entire solution for a client. So, if you’re looking in high tech sales, there’s a lot to look at IBM for.”

That’s very interesting. You guys are saying to look at some of the intangibles; look at the long term; don’t be short-sighted. But these are MBA’s who might be in debt. They’ve just spent a lot of money. Money looks very good to them. But you’re saying to look at the culture; look at the sales methods we’re going to teach you. How do you get that point across to them?

“It’s a conversation. One of the main things that I ask folks is: ‘Where do you see yourself in ten years? Where would you like to be?’ If you want an opportunity, and you’re a very entrepreneurial type of individual, and you’d like to run your own business and understand what that takes and doing that in an environment that’s going to support you—you can do that at IBM and get that experience and that might propel you to where you want to be 10 to 15 years from now. So it’s taking a long-range view as well.”

Kim Capps of Intuit, how do you see the employment outlook from Intuit? “I think it’s definitely a strong market for the MBA’s coming in. We also are seeing the dual offers and things like that. I would definitely agree with what everyone said here. Definitely know what you’re passionate about—if you’re into product marketing, brand management; what that focus is and take a position where you can learn a lot and apply those skills, because I think that you have those opportunities with the market the way it is—to really take your passion and take it to a higher level.”

Suppose you were in the successful candidate’s shoes. How do you value the package that is put on the table? What would you look at that maybe some people don’t appreciate fully? Is there too much focus just on the base salary and people don’t think enough about bonuses and relocation allowances and stock options? In addition to the intangibles we were talking about, how do you value a package? “I would definitely take into play all those components. So it’s your compensation; it’s the bonuses. And then, looking out, a lot of high tech is performance. You’re rewarded based on your performance. So looking at that it’s: What are you delivering to the company? What can you bring? And then, you’ll be compensated for that and kind of looking if you’re in a space where you can contribute and add value.”

What about the benefits and drawbacks of working in the tech industry? Because we know sometimes it rises and sometimes it doesn’t rise. At the moment, it looks great. Some people swear by the tech industry because it always seems to be on the cutting edge and that’s exciting. What do you tell people who are wondering if this is the right industry to throw my lot into? “I think right now, one of the biggest challenges we’re facing is that we have a lot of people and a lot of students who have been shying away from technology due to the .com implosion. And what they don’t realize is that technology is not going away. It never has gone away. It’s not that jobs have really been outsourced at the level of any kind of advanced degree whether that is computer science, Bachelor’s, Master’s, or Ph.D. or an MBA and those kinds of jobs. We are still going to need people who can make strategic decisions. And that is not going to change any time soon. I think if you have an MBA right now, and over the next few years, you’re going to see not only all of our types of companies that are well-established, billion-dollar businesses, but a lot of start-ups and those kinds of opportunities again poking themselves up. So I think a lot of MBA’s have great opportunities—big and small. They also have to kind of measure their risk and how they feel about that and looking at their kind of opportunities—short-term versus long-term as some of my colleagues have mentioned. And then, what are they going to get from the experience in that position that they’re deciding to take and how will that look on a resume—one job from now, three jobs from now, five jobs from now—since we know that most people don’t stay in one job for a long period of time anymore? So really evaluate all of the different pieces and components of those opportunities.”

Do you all have a professional development package that you describe to the candidates when they’re thinking about and weighing the offer? Do you say: “If you come work here, in addition to the money and the great name and the experience, we actually have a six-month tutorial or apprenticeship we put you through (or whatever it’s called today)? We’re going to take care of you. We’re going to nurture you. We’re going to give you a mentor.” What is the state of what I would call “professional development”? And where does that fit into the package you put on the table?

“It’s a very large part of the package for our sales professionals at IBM. We’re going to put you through a four to six month training program on consultative sales. You’re going to have a mentor as you mentioned. And it’s going to be a combination of classroom, in-territory sales experiences; very interactive so that when you look at an individual that has an MBA, we get you the consultative sales skills so that by the beginning of our fiscal year, you’re able to take on a territory and be successful in that territory. Then from there, on an on-going basis, we have development programs annually with all of our employees and work with folks and try to get a feel for what your passion is. Where would you like to see your career go in the short-term—18 months, 3 to 5 years, and 10 years? And we work with you to put plans in place to make that happen.”

And how do you deal with people who are not on the verge of graduating from business school so they can see they’re jumping into a wonderful employment situation, but who are right now thinking about whether to go to business school? And you have to anticipate what conditions are going to be like three years ahead. I think one of you said, “Well, technology is always going to be with us. It’s always going to be important.” But do you find that that really does drive a lot of decision-making about industries and that you can’t really persuade people and say, “Take the long-term view. In general, technology is always going to be good?” Or do you have to be able to point out to people: “Here’s the latest federal reserve prediction?”

“Usually I don’t find that I have to point that out to MBA’s—maybe with some undergraduates I’ll have to point that out to their parents. But other than that, with MBA’s for the most part, they’re fairly savvy and understand what they’re getting into and what the opportunities are. I look at an MBA when they’re going to school—it’s kind of finishing school. Or as I’ve alluded to before, it’s a job transition opportunity. You’ve maybe been working in one field for a long time and you want to move into another field. This is a great way of bridging those gaps in some sort of way. But you also have to be motivated and really decide for yourself as you’re going through the MBA application process what you are trying to get out of that MBA program, and help use that information to guide what MBA programs you’re going to apply to. Do you want to go into general management? Is it finance? Is it marketing? These are some of the pillars of the MBA program. And then use that to help guide where your next job opportunity is going to come out of. Or maybe you learned something totally new about yourself or your skill set while you’re in an MBA program, and you use your internship in between your first and second year to really figure out if that’s what you want to do or not, or an internship during your MBA experience. There are a lot of ways to decide what you’re going to do with the MBA. But I think if you are really at that point of needing to polish your skill set; you want to make a job transition; you are looking at careers that require an MBA, these are all great reasons why you should go.”

I suppose that another thing MBA’s learn is the law of supply and demand. And if you’re talking about a great economic outlook and a very competitive situation among tech companies, they must be thinking to themselves, “Money!” The salaries are going to keep soaring. Is that going to be the case for the next few years? They’re just going to go up and up and up or is that unrealistic?

“They could go up. But we, at Symantec, reward our strong performers. So our top 10% – down times and in good times—we reward them. So for an MBA candidate who is kind of thinking about high tech and is maybe a little concerned—my sell is that we reward strong performers. You perform well and you’ll be rewarded no matter how the industry turns.”

And how about the different functions within your companies—finance, marketing, sales, etc.? Are there some that at the moment seem stronger, or that you’d put your money on more in the long term? Or are you happy to have all the different functions filled by your candidates? Or do you ever try to steer them into things that just look like they’re going to be booming and that you’re going to have more of a need for?

“I think the other thing that you’d look at is finance right now with Sarbanes-Auxley and all of the repercussions of that, and the need for finance people is certainly going to be around. But I don’t think that there’s going to be any one area in particular in MBA programs that are going to be a lot more highly sought after than the other, especially, within high tech. We’re going to need people from all different backgrounds to come into the companies.”

And is the demand for MBA’s going to continue as strong or maybe only get stronger? Or is it going to be faced with such a competitive situation that you’re going to start looking at people who don’t have MBA’s but have a very valuable job experience?

“I’m going to speak for probably the other people. But your companies are always looking for both. That’s the other thing that you need to remember. In a lot of cases, some companies may be setting aside positions for MBA’s, but maybe not. And high tech is one of those areas where people have long been successful in many forms of management and different positions without an MBA. So that’s always going to be a factor.”

“And, at Intuit, we’ve also developed a leadership program for undergrads. So, building our leaders from the ground up is also something that we’re doing.”

Now high technology used to be synonymous with stock options that would just inevitably go through the roof. People dream that it’s the business you go into if you want to get rich quick. Reality has set in. Do you find that even MBA’s who are savvy come to you with unrealistic expectations about stock? Where does the idea of stock now weigh in the compensation expectation?

“I think that’s definitely a part of it—stock options, and now, also the industry trends of restricted stock units. So those two are a part of the complete package of what they’re looking for in compensation.”

Do you try to dissuade them—whether it’s restricted stock or whatever the current measure is—from focusing on the money, (even though I’m not setting a very good example)? You’ve just got to think about your longer-term life, your quality of life, your professional life, your social life, stability—people do change jobs a lot. But there’s something to be said for: “Come work for us. We’re not one of these start-ups. We’re a big, stable, relatively mature company, even though we want to keep on growing.” Do you kind of counsel them about life?

“It’s shocking the number of people who, regardless of if you have five years, ten years of work experience and then you get your MBA, just really need some guidance. They need somebody to help them make that decision. And I sometimes worry that they place too much emphasis on someone like a recruiter to help them make that decision. And I always tell students, ‘I am not you. So I can’t make this decision for you, but let me tell you some things that maybe you should consider.’ Certainly, all those things you mentioned, but this is where you’re going to spend the bulk of your day every day. You want to enjoy the people that you’re working with. You should enjoy what you’re doing during the day. Do you get excited in the morning to go to work? How much other time are you going to have to spend with your friends, and your family, and your outside work passions? Or how do you incorporate those things into your life? Those are all very key factors to consider.”

But it’s a good time to have an MBA and to be in the job market if you had to pick a time. “It’s a very good time.” “It’s excellent.”

Well, it was a good time to have with you guys, too, here in Silicon Valley. We thank you very, very much again Kim Capps of Intuit, DeAnna Christmas of IBM, Colleen McCreary of Electronic Arts and Kim Grounds of Symantec. We thank you so much for your thoughts and advice. I’m Mark Bisnow for The Graduate Management Admission Council. Thanks for listening and good luck out there in the job world.

We hope you’ve enjoyed Part 3 of a special three-part series brought to you by MBA Podcaster and The Graduate Management Admission Council. Visit our website mbapodcaster.com to listen to all three parts of this special in-depth program and see pictures of the event. Listen next week for our regularly-scheduled program covering the topic of the various MBA rankings and how relevant they are for applicants. Be sure to visit mbapodcaster.com to register for your weekly MBA podcast.

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MBA Podcaster is your online source for information, insight, and advice on the MBA admission process. We deliver relevant information and advice through biweekly audio segments for those planning to apply for a Master in Business Administration. Topics include everything from a behind-the-scenes view of the admission process to post-MBA job opportunities and current market trends. Guests include Deans of various business schools, alumni, corporate recruiters, MBA consultants and more. On each segment we go in-depth on a particular topic of interest to an MBA applicant and interview relevant experts to help make your application process more efficient and successful. Listen for this week’s newest topic or browse our archive for the specific information you need to know. Drop us a line and tell us what you’d like to hear: info@mbapodcaster.com