83 posts in this topic

I personally think Mursak is ready to play at the NHL level every night, even regardless of his goal last night, he has blazing speed and is very responsible defensively, not to mention works his ass off... I think Tatar still needs at least a year playing major minutes in various situations in the AHL (and to put on some size) and I personally could take or leave Kindl at this point, but think we may possibly be best served sending him out at the deadline, not that he's been bad, I just don't think he really fits what we need and will need moving forward, especially with what we already have in the pipeline...

As for the "vets" - I wouldn't be opposed to Draper coming back on a 1 year deal at a discount, and retaining Miller, as long as Miller and Draper both understand they may be healthy scratches from one night to the next, re-sign Ericsson and Eaves long term (3 years+), re-sign Salei for another 1 year or 2 year deal, re-sign Howard (term TBD on how he plays over the rest of the year, but likely 3 year deal), go looking in FA for a backup goalie (Conklin?) and last but certainly not least, depending on what Lidstrom wants to do, if he wants to come back, done... if he hangs them up, go looking in FA for another impact defensemen (*cough* Kevin Bieksa *cough*)

Just my 2 cents...

Edited January 11, 2011 by stevkrause

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To me, so much time has been invested in Kindl that you dont give up on him yet. He's been fine and they're easing him into NHL life. He has good offensice upside and has shown decent defensive play at the NHL level. Although we're all pumped to see Smith at the NHL level he isn't out of minor league options so Holland's hands arent tied. If Lidstrom returns next year the Wings could choose to go with the same d-corps as this season or replace Salei (if they cant agree on a new contract) with a different veteran on a similar type contract.

Ericsson has shown a massive improvement from last year and he's only going to get better. He has his career back on track so to me, he's a no brainer to re-sign. Mursak is showing he's ready to play at the NHL level. It'd be rough to see Miller go in some ways but I think Mursak brings what Miller does and then some. His speed is an obvious upgrade so I think we'd see Mursak replace Miller next summer as Miller just hasnt taken another step forward this year.

Eaves is an obvious re-sign and for a longer term. Obviously $ comes into play here. But I think you gotta look at 3 years for sure. Howard has shown the calibre of goaltender he can be and he's still growing. After the time they've invested in him there's no way they don't keep him unless he has an absolute monumental break down in the playoffs. Even if that were to happen I bet they'd keep him on a very short deal and look to solidify the back up role (assuming Osgood retired). I see Howard playing well down the stretch and getting a 3ish year deal hopefully for $2.5M but prob more like $3M.

Tatar obvioulsy stays in the AHL next year and gets bigger and hopefully blows up his offensice numbers. Draper is proving he can still go this season but a lot will depend on how he does down the stretch. The roster is so jammed up that he may end up in a similar spot as Maltby did last summer. That last forward roster spot could be between him and Miller actually now that I think about it. So Draper could be back - if he is, Miller is gone. Or Draper retires, Miller is back or we get a FA. Either way, I see Mursak as one of the 13/14 forwards.

Osgood's groin problems could actually pose serious issues for him going through to next year. We'll see how he responds. No way is McCollum ready to come up. I'd like to think they'd ask Daniel Larsson to camp but maybe that's just wishful thinking as I always liked him. They'd most likey sign a veteran FA to back up Howard while McCollum grows in GR (all assuming Osgood is done). If Osgood comes back and even plays as he has most of this season I think he'd be back on a cheap contract. I could even see him signing at 750k or something.

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I personally think Mursak is ready to play at the NHL level every night, even regardless of his goal last night, he has blazing speed and is very responsible defensively, not to mention works his ass off... I think Tatar still needs at least a year playing major minutes in various situations in the AHL (and to put on some size) and I personally could take or leave Kindl at this point, but think we may possibly be best served sending him out at the deadline, not that he's been bad, I just don't think he really fits what we need and will need moving forward, especially with what we already have in the pipeline...

As for the "vets" - I wouldn't be opposed to Draper coming back on a 1 year deal at a discount, and retaining Miller, as long as Miller and Draper both understand they may be healthy scratches from one night to the next, re-sign Ericsson and Eaves long term (3 years+), re-sign Salei for another 1 year or 2 year deal, re-sign Howard (term TBD on how he plays over the rest of the year, but likely 3 year deal), go looking in FA for a backup goalie (Conklin?) and last but certainly not least, depending on what Lidstrom wants to do, if he wants to come back, done... if he hangs them up, go looking in FA for another impact defensemen (*cough* Kevin Bieksa *cough*)

Just my 2 cents...

Draper has been good, but if Helm keeps putting in the goals once in a while and improving on faceoffs I don't think we need him. I do, however, favor signing him until he retires, which I think he will do either next year or the year after.

If Lidstrom retires, I agree that they need an impact defenseman, preferably a young one who has put in respectable minutes and stats for more than one year. (i.e. not the flavor of the week)

Kindl, I agree. He's been good for us but not good enough to really hurt us if we lost him, especially if we got something in return.

Salei has been fantastic, I would absolutely offer him a 1 year or 2 year contract.

If Ozzie retires I would love to have Conklin back as a backup who can carry the load if need be. He certainly allows less than 4 goals a game... Or we could trade Howard + Hudler +3rd round pick for Ryan Miller.

As much as I like Miller and wanted him back this year, he's been pretty redundant. Good, so if they can keep him I'm all for it, but if not, he should be traded in a package to get someone with a bit more upside.

EDIT: Mursak is also NHL ready and Ericsson has been great after coming back from his early season injury. There's just no room for Kindl next season unless they don't sign a FA to replace Lidstrom if he retires and if they resign Salei. Salei brings something to the table that Kindl doesn't. I imagine they could trade him for whatever, bring in a solid 1 or 2 spot D-man for a few years and when Rafalski retires have Smith come up and fill his spot. The trouble is, do you lose Kindl to keep an old vet like Salei? Or would you package Kindl for a deal to bring in said 1 or 2 spot D-man?

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Mursak is definitely ready and I would trade Miller in a heartbeat to keep him up here. Now that Tatar has had a taste I say he goes back to GR and finishes the year as a beast and forces his way on to the team next year. Ericsson has been great this year and it looks like him a raffi have good chemistry together but need to tighten it up at times. Kindl has been well, ok... I would like to see him use his 6-3 220 lbs frame more. Overall I have been very impressed by the young guys, If Lids retires I wouldn't mind seeing Smith get a shot. He has been one of the few bright spots on the Griffins this year and is having an outstanding rookie year playing in his first professional season. We all know he can probably contribute immediately offensively in the NHL right now but his defense was the question. He is a +4 on a team that has allowed more goals than it has scored, plus he's got a great mentor down there in Cheli.

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I'm with mmamolo on Kindl. There has been far too much time invested in him to give up on him after a fistful of games at the NHL level, especially because of the strong presence he brings to the Griffins blue line. It leads me to believe he has true NHL potential.

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Mursak can make the jump now and should since he can't play in the AHL next year anyway (unless they want to expose him to waivers).

Tatar needs time to adjust to the professional game. He's only played a year and a half of North American hockey and he just turned 20 last month. It's easy to forget Tatar's a 2009 draft pick. He looked good in Detroit but obviously needed to continue to improve his strength (although he got a lot stronger this past summer and by all accounts is highly committed to being a professional althelete on and off the ice). Tatar's talent, vision and skating showed at the NHL level in his first call-up but we haven't seen everything he can offer yet. Another year on the first line in the AHL will serve him well. Hopefully the Wings make a deep run in the playoffs this year and he can soak as much of the atmosphere up as possible as a black ace. It's a shame he didn't get a chance to play with Datsyuk or Zetterberg during his call-up but I'm sure practicing with them would be eye opening too. He's the kind of kid who elevates his game to the level of the competition. Now that he's tasted the NHL you better believe he's hungry and motivated to get back and stay there. He did the same thing when the Wings gave him a shot at the AHL. I'm sure he'll make it hard for Holland to keep him in the AHL for long.

Ericsson is playing like the guy we saw in the 09 playoffs. Signing him is a no-brainer.

Kindl hasn't impressed me in the NHL yet. E showed a lot more in his first NHL games.

Smith was tearing it up in the AHL before his knee injury (although he slowed down after the first few months-- which makes sense given the fact that he played college hockey before the AHL). I'd like to see Smith get some call-up time in the NHL as well. At this point his defensive game needs work but his offensive game is brilliant. (he's a great skater too) If there's a top 6 defensive spot open on the roster next season I'm betting Smith makes the team. His situation is similar to E's a few years ago-- they won't let him waste away in the pressbox.

Emmerton had a great season in GR before his injury. He'll have to make the team next season as well, so I expect we'll see him called up at some point this season once he's healthy.

Next year should be a fun year in GR with Callahan and Nyquist pretty much a lock to make the team. I wouldn't be surprised to see Jarnkrok and Plukkinen get PTO's in GR at the end of their European seasons (depending on when their teams exit the playoffs). Both looked excellent at the WJC although they definitely need to get pro size and coniditioning. I bet one or both will be given the oppertunity to make the Griffs just like Tatar was given coming out of training camp in 09.

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IMO, Miller should never have been signed this season. It always should have been Miller OR Eaves, and Eaves is clearly the better choice. I have nothing against Miller, but he is soo useless on a team that already has Eaves, Helm, Abby, and Draper.

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To me, so much time has been invested in Kindl that you dont give up on him yet. He's been fine and they're easing him into NHL life. He has good offensice upside and has shown decent defensive play at the NHL level. Although we're all pumped to see Smith at the NHL level he isn't out of minor league options so Holland's hands arent tied. If Lidstrom returns next year the Wings could choose to go with the same d-corps as this season or replace Salei (if they cant agree on a new contract) with a different veteran on a similar type contract.

Ericsson has shown a massive improvement from last year and he's only going to get better. He has his career back on track so to me, he's a no brainer to re-sign. Mursak is showing he's ready to play at the NHL level. It'd be rough to see Miller go in some ways but I think Mursak brings what Miller does and then some. His speed is an obvious upgrade so I think we'd see Mursak replace Miller next summer as Miller just hasnt taken another step forward this year.

Eaves is an obvious re-sign and for a longer term. Obviously $ comes into play here. But I think you gotta look at 3 years for sure. Howard has shown the calibre of goaltender he can be and he's still growing. After the time they've invested in him there's no way they don't keep him unless he has an absolute monumental break down in the playoffs. Even if that were to happen I bet they'd keep him on a very short deal and look to solidify the back up role (assuming Osgood retired). I see Howard playing well down the stretch and getting a 3ish year deal hopefully for $2.5M but prob more like $3M.

Tatar obvioulsy stays in the AHL next year and gets bigger and hopefully blows up his offensice numbers. Draper is proving he can still go this season but a lot will depend on how he does down the stretch. The roster is so jammed up that he may end up in a similar spot as Maltby did last summer. That last forward roster spot could be between him and Miller actually now that I think about it. So Draper could be back - if he is, Miller is gone. Or Draper retires, Miller is back or we get a FA. Either way, I see Mursak as one of the 13/14 forwards.

Osgood's groin problems could actually pose serious issues for him going through to next year. We'll see how he responds. No way is McCollum ready to come up. I'd like to think they'd ask Daniel Larsson to camp but maybe that's just wishful thinking as I always liked him. They'd most likey sign a veteran FA to back up Howard while McCollum grows in GR (all assuming Osgood is done). If Osgood comes back and even plays as he has most of this season I think he'd be back on a cheap contract. I could even see him signing at 750k or something.

I kinda forget about Larsson at times, I wonder if there'd be any bad blood between he and Howard with the way he went out (saying he was better than Howard and should have gotten he chance over him, but if that's not an issue, I wouldn't have a problem with him being given a chance to be a backup, I just would kinda like a veteran to hold that role, which is why I suggested bringing Conklin back(plus he's supposed to be one HELL of a team guy), but I really think Osgood will be hanging them up after this season one way or another as he's now had groin injuries in back to back years and this one is a tricky one... I also agree that McCollum needs at least one more year in GR...

As for Kindl, I think you're dead on about the time we've spent, which is why I said I could take or leave him, I don't think he NEEDS to go, but as VM touched on, if we got a good enough offer via trade, or package, I'd be ok with letting him go, especially if Lids hangs them up and we have a chance at a Bieksa or another player of that caliber.

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will there even be enough cap space to resign Ericsson,Howard,and Eaves?

Even if Lidstrom returns, with the capspace gone from Modano, Draper gone/reduced and Osgood's cap gone, plus the raise the cap will surely take (as minute as it may be), in addition to the raises that all 3 will require, we'll have enough room... if Lidstrom retires, without a doubt and then some...

Mursak can make the jump now and should since he can't play in the AHL next year anyway (unless they want to expose him to waivers).

Tatar needs time to adjust to the professional game. He's only played a year and a half of North American hockey and he just turned 20 last month. It's easy to forget Tatar's a 2009 draft pick. He looked good in Detroit but obviously needed to continue to improve his strength (although he got a lot stronger this past summer and by all accounts is highly committed to being a professional althelete on and off the ice). Tatar's talent, vision and skating showed at the NHL level in his first call-up but we haven't seen everything he can offer yet. Another year on the first line in the AHL will serve him well. Hopefully the Wings make a deep run in the playoffs this year and he can soak as much of the atmosphere up as possible as a black ace. It's a shame he didn't get a chance to play with Datsyuk or Zetterberg during his call-up but I'm sure practicing with them would be eye opening too. He's the kind of kid who elevates his game to the level of the competition. Now that he's tasted the NHL you better believe he's hungry and motivated to get back and stay there. He did the same thing when the Wings gave him a shot at the AHL. I'm sure he'll make it hard for Holland to keep him in the AHL for long.

Ericsson is playing like the guy we saw in the 09 playoffs. Signing him is a no-brainer.

Kindl hasn't impressed me in the NHL yet. E showed a lot more in his first NHL games.

Smith was tearing it up in the AHL before his knee injury (although he slowed down after the first few months-- which makes sense given the fact that he played college hockey before the AHL). I'd like to see Smith get some call-up time in the NHL as well. At this point his defensive game needs work but his offensive game is brilliant. (he's a great skater too) If there's a top 6 defensive spot open on the roster next season I'm betting Smith makes the team. His situation is similar to E's a few years ago-- they won't let him waste away in the pressbox.

Emmerton had a great season in GR before his injury. He'll have to make the team next season as well, so I expect we'll see him called up at some point this season once he's healthy.

Next year should be a fun year in GR with Callahan and Nyquist pretty much a lock to make the team. I wouldn't be surprised to see Jarnkrok and Plukkinen get PTO's in GR at the end of their European seasons (depending on when their teams exit the playoffs). Both looked excellent at the WJC although they definitely need to get pro size and coniditioning. I bet one or both will be given the oppertunity to make the Griffs just like Tatar was given coming out of training camp in 09.

Callahan is looking to be such a steal so far, lets hope he keeps developing as he has been... it's pretty exciting for the future...

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Even if Lidstrom returns, with the capspace gone from Modano, Draper gone/reduced and Osgood's cap gone, plus the raise the cap will surely take (as minute as it may be), in addition to the raises that all 3 will require, we'll have enough room... if Lidstrom retires, without a doubt and then some...

well for arguments sake say Lidstrom does return and for about what he got this year

Draper+Modano+Osgood=4.25m coming off the cap

but those roster spots need to be replaced,say 600k or so average/spot or something with Mursak+Emmerton and a veteran backup/Larsson or something like that

that's down to 2.45m cap space then

say Howard get's 2.5m(which if his numbers improved a bunch/good playoff run he would make more)

all of a sudden that's down to .667m for both Ericsson and Eaves raises which is nowhere near enough

even if the cap increases by a couple million I could easily see it just plain not being enough

edit: also this isn't counting Modano's bonus,I think there was a games played one and a second round appearance for the Wings one,the games played one probably won't happen now but the second round appearance has a good chance

not sure how much that is exactly but that knocks even more off of the cap space

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well for arguments sake say Lidstrom does return and for about what he got this year

Draper+Modano+Osgood=4.25m coming off the cap

but those roster spots need to be replaced,say 600k or so average/spot or something with Mursak+Emmerton and a veteran backup/Larsson or something like that

that's down to 2.45m cap space then

say Howard get's 2.5m(which if his numbers improved a bunch/good playoff run he would make more)

all of a sudden that's down to .667m for both Ericsson and Eaves raises which is nowhere near enough

even if the cap increases by a couple million I could easily see it just plain not being enough

you don't HAVE to carry 23 men on a roster, especially when you have players in the minors that can be called up when needed, also, realistically, Eaves and Ericsson will get decent raises more than likely, but neither will more than likely end up north of 1.5, so for arguments sake, plus 2.5 is a high estimate for Howard, we'll peak them all for this example, but even likely without the cap going up, it can be done, and this doesn't even account for potential trades, etc... Cap raised by 600k for modest estimation of cap inflation -

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you don't HAVE to carry 23 men on a roster, especially when you have players in the minors that can be called up when needed, also, realistically, Eaves and Ericsson will get decent raises more than likely, but neither will more than likely end up north of 1.5, so for arguments sake, we'll peak them both off and even without the cap going up, it can be done, and this doesn't even account for potential trades, etc... Cap raised by 600k for modest estimation of cap inflation -

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but still that would force us to Waive/trade Emmerton(although he could replace Miller so it doesn't matter for this)

anyways you missed my edit for Modano

I went and dug up his contract since then and these are the bonuses:

$150,000 for 40 games played

$100,000 for 55 games played

$125,000 for round 1 playoff win

$125,000 for round 2 playoff win

with him at 20 games played and out until at least March or so both games played bonuses are probably gone

but if the Wings make it to round 3 of the playoffs that's another 250k for next years cap

also with how Eaves has been playing,his age,going UFA,20 goals as a rookie in the past etc I find it hard to believe that he will only get 1.5m

could easily see him getting 2+ if he keeps it up

in any case things are going to be really tight

They can use those bonuses on this years cap, they don't have to carry them over and we have the space on this years, so why wouldn't they absorb them for this year?

As for Emmerton, exactly as you said, it could be him or Miller, whomever they feel is worth keeping, I basically just used Miller to fill the spot to prove the point...

As for Eaves, remember, players are people too and I'm sure he doesn't want to bounce around a whole lot more, especially after he was almost out of the league before he found a home here... I could easily see him staying for even less than 1.5, but wouldn't be surprised if we gave him more either...

One way or another though, those three will surely not take 5.5 worth of cap, so if one gets more, one will probably get less (likely Howard won't see much more than 2) - either way, I see it not being a problem, but yes, it will be tight...

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well for arguments sake say Lidstrom does return and for about what he got this year

Draper+Modano+Osgood=4.25m coming off the cap

but those roster spots need to be replaced,say 600k or so average/spot or something with Mursak+Emmerton and a veteran backup/Larsson or something like that

that's down to 2.45m cap space then

say Howard get's 2.5m(which if his numbers improved a bunch/good playoff run he would make more)

all of a sudden that's down to .667m for both Ericsson and Eaves raises which is nowhere near enough

even if the cap increases by a couple million I could easily see it just plain not being enough

edit: also this isn't counting Modano's bonus,I think there was a games played one and a second round appearance for the Wings one,the games played one probably won't happen now but the second round appearance has a good chance

not sure how much that is exactly but that knocks even more off of the cap space

Something will have to give with all the forwards. Mursak and Emmerton will either make the team or be traded. Draper's spot doesn't need to be replaced because the Wings are carrying too many players as it is.

There's really no need to carry a 7th defenseman all year either. Guys like Kindl and Meech are only carried because the Wings are protecting their assets against waivers. At some point Holland will have to decide what to do with Kindl-- either play him regularly, trade him while he has some value or let him become a spare part. Meech was never a highly regarded prospect aside from perhaps his last season in the AHL. Kindl's trade value will continue to decline as he ages and doesn't make the team.

With Smith the Wings have a young, highly regarded, waiver-exempt guy who they can call up when injuries happen. If they're happy with their defensive depth Kindl can be shipped out. Honestly, if it wasn't for Ericsson's rough rookie year I think Kindl may have been moved earlier. Now that they know E's returned to form there isn't a ton of room for Kindl (assuming Lidstrom doesn't retire this summer).

Once Holland knows Lidstrom's intentions he can make some final decisions on the defense and clear this log-jam.

As far as Larsson goes... well he didn't help himself when he left for Europe. He's played very well in Sweden so they won't completely discount him but he can't look at Holland and say "play me in the NHL or I walk" unless he comes into camp and plays outstanding.

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I think mursak is def nhl ready and deserves a shot. if drapes is gone after this year i'td be nice to see i.flip getting a chance as a backup center.

I think kindl has the rest of the season to determine his future. If he pulls and ericsson and plays well for us late in the year he has a shot at sticking around, but if not id think of trying to get a pick for him and giving smith a shot at being a 7th dman.

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I have loved what Mursak has been doing out there. Looks poised to start here for a long time as a solid 3rd line winger. Tatar can be whatever he wants to be here as well on the 1st and 2nd. Sky is the limit for that kid from what I can tell. Kindl hasn't been glaringly terrible and also can be a player to keep for some years. People need to just see what Miller brought to the game last night. The Miller-Abby-Mursak line was our best! Miller probably played one of his best games of the year and I truly think this is the type of player we need, for this year anyway. I have to agree that we do need to dump him and Drapes off come next year and finally allow Sauce and Muskrat to become the players that we have been hoping to get from the 3rd and 4th since the late 90's. The future looks bright

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Personally, I'm not quite ready to give up on Kindl yet. Not by a long shot. The kid has great vision and seems to be able to see the lanes real well. He hasn't been given a true opportunity to adjust and get comfortable. A few games here and there isn't enough. Can't ship him until he see's regular shifts for a decent stretch imo.

Pretty much agree with all other assessments though.

Edited January 11, 2011 by Broken 16

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Personally, I'm not quite ready to give up on Kindl yet. Not by a long shot. The kid has great vision and seems to be able to see the lanes real well. He hasn't been given a true opportunity to adjust and get comfortable. A few games here and there isn't enough. Can't ship him until he see's regular shifts for a decent stretch imo.

Pretty much agree with all other assessments though.

I can definitely agree with that... I just don't have a strong opinion of him either way at this point, and I can see the benefits to both sides(trading him and keeping him) so basically all I was eluding to, was that I just wouldn't be upset if they did either...

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I can definitely agree with that... I just don't have a strong opinion of him either way at this point, and I can see the benefits to both sides(trading him and keeping him) so basically all I was eluding to, was that I just wouldn't be upset if they did either...

I hear ya. I guess I figure that if the Wings can turn Ericsson, who started as a forward as you know, into a good, solid NHL dman, they should be able to turn Kindl into Bobby Orr.

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Synopsis - Ericsson, Eaves, Howard back and raise, Salei back, slight raise, Tatar extra year GR, Mursak up full time, Draper, Modano, Osgood retired, vet back up goalie and Lids yes or no decides other D spot/FA pickup, Miller take or leave... Kindl, verdict still out - sum it up well enough?

I hear ya. I guess I figure that if the Wings can turn Ericsson, who started as a forward as you know, into a good, solid NHL dman, they should be able to turn Kindl into Bobby Orr.

Ericsson came into the org with better hockey sense though and a more physical side, whereas Kindl is yet to use his size the way he should...

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