iwhat if you cultivate friendship ("easy... casual") with this gentleman for now, and keep yourself open for "dating" with others. you will gain a lot of knowledge, experience, and perspective by continuing down the post-divorce "dating" path, and meanwhile you have a genuine friendship evolving with someone with whom you feel a deep simpatico.

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Not sure I can do that. Which is why I asked the question about how one defines dating.

Okay. Let me go back to the beginning and say that I certainly can and will develop friendship with The Guy. He's smart, capable, funny and committed to some things that are very important to me. He will be a good friend of mine, over time, regardless of whether he and I ever share romantic experiences.

But about dating -- just the word dating, these days, seems, to have a sexual connotation for so many people, right out of the starting gate. For one thing, that's not me, I don't think -- it's been a long time since I examined my framework for this, so I might have changed.

If I were to date a variety of guys, just to get my legs under me, I'm not sure that I am capable of being both sexual with and detached from someone. All while developing a long-term friendship with The Guy. That's a lot of balls to juggle. And yes. I know that physical intimacy doesn't have to happen unless I want it to. But it might. And it can screw up everything.

those are very attractive markers of chemistry and potential intimacy, but there is so much more to discern regarding core-compatibility, IME. those are the little details i mean... and IME it's no small matter to become clear on what they are (the ones that *really* matter to you, not the superficial nice-to-haves) and also how to red flag when someone actually demonstrates the opposite.

i just wouldn't be too quick to become exclusive, which is one of the points in that book i suggested reading in the enlightening conversations thread, which i recall you saying you did read. "mars and venus on a date". that book speaks directly on the subject of this thread and gives a helpful framework (one possible of many one might use) for the "dating" process.

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I did read this book, and liked Dr Gray's ... um ... delineating different levels of physical intimacy, I also like his suggestion that people clarify for themselves what they're comfortable with and then communicate it to their dates/partners without apology or excuse. "I'm comfortable with kissing (or petting or whatever) but I'm not ready to sleep with you yet," may not be the easiest sentence to form, but, IMHO, it's a heck of a lot better than the alternative -- ending up naked with a stranger.

when I was dating many moons ago I found the talking and hugs/eskimo kisses to be the best part of it all. Worst parts came later with pillow theft (all women do this, don't deny it :tongue: ). Dating should be fun/easy going and not filled with sex and all that polava /grumble grumble..

Here's my deal and, I guess reason I started the thread in the first place. The ex and I have a seriously messy past that includes a very long, on-again off-again separation.

In my religious framework, separated = married. And to me, married = faithful. (Not that the ex shares this view, mind you. But I've gotta be me and live by my conscience, not his. )

And, of course, as stated above, even I, emotionally battered as I've felt, am too smart to start a new relationship while in the midst of or immediately after a divorce.

This left me alone for what I perceive to be an unfair** and ridiculous amount of time. Now that "immediately after a divorce" is a thing of the past and some time has passed, I believe I'm fairly safe to date. Most likely won't kill anyone, at this point.

So dating will happen and soon. It was meant to be. It's only fair that I get that aspect of my life back. My only dilemma is whether to step up the action plan with The Guy or to step up the action plan with other(s) TBA.

** And yes, I know that talk of fair and unfair is kindergarten stuff. We all know life ain't fair. But I'll tell you what. My life is getting ready to be a lot more fair than it used to be.

P, considering where you stand in the post-divorce aspect of things, i commend your information-gathering on the subject. i don't think there's anything complicating about thinking about you want and how to go about it. in fact, i think that your trying to bring some mindfulness & awareness to these new steps that you're taking will go a long way in avoiding complications and unhappiness.

even if you want to keep things "easy & casual", if you don't bring some thoughtfulness and purposefulness to your decisions, you could easily make some sloppy choices and either end up getting hurt, or needlessly hurting another.

as for sex & multiple dating partners... my point earlier was exactly about keeping too much physical intimacy out of the picture early on so that you *can* take your time in getting to know what you want, as well as a specific "other". that was one of the suggestions that i found highly valuable in the M&V onna date book... a helpful thing to hear IMV in the current culture that moves so quickly.

even if you want to keep things "easy & casual", if you don't bring some thoughtfulness and purposefulness to your decisions, you could easily make some sloppy choices and either end up getting hurt, or needlessly hurting another.

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Exactly. You are so smart!!

That's exactly it. Choosing to be easy and casual, whether with The Guy or others, is one thing. Actually keeping things casual is a whole 'nother ball of wax.

ETA: This applies to both physical intimacy as well as perceived emotional connection. What I decide and what actually happens may well be different things.

I do think that the probability of a positive outcome is much better if you consciously think it through and decide what outcome you want. Otherwise, it's very easy to be blindsided by the heat of the moment and later think, "What in the world was I thinking?" I have a couple friends who ended up rebound married this way. Married! Because they didn't take time to think through dating. One of them ended up divorced again in a heartbeat. The jury's still out on the other. Not going down that path ... with my eyes closed. :wink: :lol:

You can relax and let it go where it goes and be happy with either outcome (either it progresses or it runs its course)... Or you can address the issue of your confusion and risk scaring him away. I mean it may not scare him, he may feel the same way.

I think men just enjoy the company of women and will continue to accept your company as long as you're offering it up. To us (to me) if you don't want a relationship you stop dating. If you consistently see the same person you obviously want it to progress. Guys don't think that way necessarily.

You could also just back off, stop asking him out, see if he wants to pursue you if he hasn't gotten a chance to do that. You need to feel like he wants to be with you as much as you want to be with him. It should show. If you can't get a feel for it, his interest may not be there?

You could also just back off, stop asking him out, see if he wants to pursue you if he hasn't gotten a chance to do that. You need to feel like he wants to be with you as much as you want to be with him. It should show. If you can't get a feel for it, his interest may not be there?

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Oh. I didn't realize I'd given that impression. Whatever is going on here, although complicated, is mutual. A lack of interest is not a concern of mine (although maybe I'm deceiving myself.)

I think a lot of what's going on is that we're both old and have baggage we're trying to navigate, both to protect ourselves and each other. Not a bad place to start -- protecting each others' feelings while respecting our own boundaries. It's only bad, IMO, if the protecting goes so far that it stalls out forward movement. And I'm not worried about that, yet, either.

I see us circling and feeling each other out. Also not a bad place to be, IMO.

Oh I thought you couldn't tell if he wanted it to be serious or not.. when you said about it being in an in between phase. I've never had mixed signals. Either a guy wanted it all right away or didn't really show interest.. granted I would still try to push the issue even if he didn't... lol

I can't remember the last time I dated a guy in his twenties.. actually I can and he was a flake. But the reason that I do go for older guys (most recent one 37) is they have a clear idea of who they are, and they're not in a rush to do anything because they've already done it all, and they just want to get to know you. But they don't seem to have any reservations about letting you know they're interested.

Oh I thought you couldn't tell if he wanted it to be serious or not.. when you said about it being in an in between phase. I've never had mixed signals. Either a guy wanted it all right away or didn't really show interest.. granted I would still try to push the issue even if he didn't... lol

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Oh yeah and, to be honest, I don't know if I want to be serious or not. Heck! I don't even know what serious means anynmore. Everything's on the table.

The cool thing is that, if I'm just as ambivalent as he, he and I have equal power, at least for the time being.