Lots of good news. He's started shooting again (standstill), the scar tissue seems to be forming evenly (apparently a big deal), he's not had any pain since post-op (a really big deal), and he saw Star Trek.

http://my.nba.com/thread.jspa?threadID=5800025515

I won't post the stuff he said about Trek... it could be awkward for some beloved members of our forum.

PacerGuy

05-20-2009, 11:43 PM

That's awsomew news!!!!
Did he like it more then the original?

Kemo

05-20-2009, 11:50 PM

He said he really didnt like it , as he is not really a fan ..

Now me personally , I absolutely LOVED it........

MillerTime

05-21-2009, 12:04 AM

great news. Hopefully he can return sooner than Jan 2010. So far his progression sounds pretty good. We'll desperately need him back considering that we only have Rush and Granger thus far.

rexnom

05-21-2009, 01:08 AM

If he comes back, he's still coming off the bench.

Los Angeles

05-21-2009, 01:23 AM

Dun hatin' on the nerrrrrds.

Dayum, Junior. Them's fightin' words.

MillerTime

05-21-2009, 02:51 AM

If he comes back, he's still coming off the bench.
I agree. Rush had a good few months at the end of the season, and considering we are trying to focus on better defence , Rush's dee will get him that starting position over Dun. It'll be some good backup off the bench

Spirit

05-21-2009, 06:38 AM

If he comes back, he's still coming off the bench.Doubtful. Even hurt he still averaged 15 ppg last season and he is a favorite of O'Brien's. I see hm as our starter until Rush can outplay him.

MillerTime

05-21-2009, 07:23 AM

Doubtful. Even hurt he still averaged 15 ppg last season and he is a favorite of O'Brien's. I see hm as our starter until Rush can outplay him.

He might be better than Rush offensively, but there is no question who is better on the defensive end. As a team, we dont have a problem putting points up, our problem is playing defense.

flox

05-21-2009, 07:44 AM

At this point you always start the better player, which is Dunleavy without a doubt.

Spirit

05-21-2009, 07:57 AM

At this point you always start the better player, which is Dunleavy without a doubt.
Comepletely agreed.

Spirit

05-21-2009, 07:58 AM

He might be better than Rush offensively, but there is no question who is better on the defensive end. As a team, we dont have a problem putting points up, our problem is playing defense.
Wake me up when he gains consistency. Veterans like Dunleavy that you can count on to play well every night should always get the nod over inconsistent rookies.

MillerTime

05-21-2009, 08:03 AM

At this point you always start the better player, which is Dunleavy without a doubt.
Firstly, you dont always start the better player. Is Roger Mason Jr better than Manu Ginobili and/or Finely? Is Dontay Jones better than JR Smith? Is K.Azubuike better than Maggette (thats is a comparable example to Rush and Dunleavy)?

Wake me up when he gains consistency. Veterans like Dunleavy that you can count on to play well every night should always get the nod over inconsistent rookies.
Hes a rookie. Would you agree that he was consistent over the last few months of the season?

Dunleavy has no sense of defense. We dont need another scorer, we're stacked with those already. We need someone who could play some defense, which Rush can do. Look at Rush's last 3 games of the season, he scored 24 points, 27 points, and 21 points and never shot less than 50% http://www.nba.com/playerfile/brandon_rush/index.html?nav=page

Hicks

05-21-2009, 08:13 AM

O'brien's already said that Rush is going to be the starter as long as he starts next season playing as well as did at the end of this season.

Putnam

05-21-2009, 08:16 AM

The only thing different I notice these days is the actual look and feel of my knee. It has a decent-sized scar on the front that looks like it should have a zipper at the top. When you touch it, the left knee feels like a baby's bottom whereas the right feels like it's been through the ringer -- slightly puffier than the right and you can feel the incongruity in the tendon.

"A baby's bottom?"

.

MillerTime

05-21-2009, 08:22 AM

O'brien's already said that Rush is going to be the starter as long as he starts next season playing as well as did at the end of this season.

There you go, you've answered out question...I didnt recell JOB saying that, but I'm not surprised

Trader Joe

05-21-2009, 08:32 AM

If he comes back, he's still coming off the bench.

Yep.

Trader Joe

05-21-2009, 08:35 AM

Wake me up when he gains consistency. Veterans like Dunleavy that you can count on to play well every night should always get the nod over inconsistent rookies.

I can't believe that we have apparently just forgotten the previous 5 years of Dun's career before his 19ppg season...The guy wasn't exactly Mr. Reliable in terms of on court production. Now he's coming off a pretty serious knee injury and we're just acting like he is immediately going to step in and make this team better. Sorry I don't see it. This team doesn't need Dun's offensive abilities in the starting lineup, off the bench? Yep. Rush's D is far more important than what Dun brings to our starting 5.

BillS

05-21-2009, 09:24 AM

Don't put the cart before the horse - even if Dun makes fantastic progress this summer there is no way he'll be playing minutes before mid-season.

count55

05-21-2009, 09:33 AM

Don't put the cart before the horse - even if Dun makes fantastic progress this summer there is no way he'll be playing minutes before mid-season.

There's a horse?

DrFife

05-21-2009, 09:49 AM

There's a horse?

Yeah, Dun said he probably be playing a lot of stand-still "horse" this summer. :D

PacerGuy

05-21-2009, 09:58 AM

There's a horse?

He came w/ Dun & Ike in the GS trade & plays PF.

How soon we forget....:-p

Anthem

05-21-2009, 10:06 AM

Don't put the cart before the horse - even if Dun makes fantastic progress this summer there is no way he'll be playing minutes before mid-season.
Major minutes, at least. He could start getting 10mpg or something earlier in the season at this rate.

flox

05-21-2009, 10:49 AM

Firstly, you dont always start the better player. Is Roger Mason Jr better than Manu Ginobili and/or Finely? Is Dontay Jones better than JR Smith? Is K.Azubuike better than Maggette (thats is a comparable example to Rush and Dunleavy)?

Hes a rookie. Would you agree that he was consistent over the last few months of the season?

Dunleavy has no sense of defense. We dont need another scorer, we're stacked with those already. We need someone who could play some defense, which Rush can do. Look at Rush's last 3 games of the season, he scored 24 points, 27 points, and 21 points and never shot less than 50% http://www.nba.com/playerfile/brandon_rush/index.html?nav=page
When the tough times got going, Gino started over Mason and Finley. I don't really think Nelson knows how to make a lineup, so no, I'm not going to comment on that one. Karl doesn't have an inbounds play, so I'm not gonna comment on that either.

As far as defense is concerned, Dunleavy plays great defense as long as he isn't paired with Murphy. He's got decent tools to work in Jim O'Brien defense, and if you look at our offensive efficiency ratings, we are almost as bad, if not worse. We need offense just as much as we need defense.

And starting doesn't really matter in the long run if they don't get minutes. So sure, start Rush, but he shouldn't get more than 20 minutes per game.

MillerTime

05-21-2009, 11:27 AM

When the tough times got going, Gino started over Mason and Finley. I don't really think Nelson knows how to make a lineup, so no, I'm not going to comment on that one. Karl doesn't have an inbounds play, so I'm not gonna comment on that either.

As far as defense is concerned, Dunleavy plays great defense as long as he isn't paired with Murphy. He's got decent tools to work in Jim O'Brien defense, and if you look at our offensive efficiency ratings, we are almost as bad, if not worse. We need offense just as much as we need defense.

And starting doesn't really matter in the long run if they don't get minutes. So sure, start Rush, but he shouldn't get more than 20 minutes per game.

Well if Dun is going to start (as you say) then hes most likely going to have to be paired with Murphy because Murphy will definately start if we have this roster coming into the season

PR07

05-21-2009, 12:53 PM

Sometimes it's smarter to have a better 6th man than 5th starter. There's a reason Pop has Manu as the 6th man while guys like Finley and Bowen have around in the starting lineup. The first unit is not going to need points with Granger, Murph, and Ford; but the second unit might. If the defense is going to get any better, you can't have Dunleavy in the starting lineup, especially coming off surgery. I think the 6th man role is a really nice fit for MDJ.

count55

05-21-2009, 01:00 PM

Major minutes, at least. He could start getting 10mpg or something earlier in the season at this rate.

It's still way too premature to say this. He still hasn't made a peep about a timeframe for return. For all we know, this might only mean that he's closer to the 12-month recovery schedule than the 18.

Los Angeles

05-21-2009, 01:02 PM

It is important to note that Red Auerbach is often credited with inventing the "Sixth Man" tactic - where you intentionally make the 6th player one of your strongest players so that your first substitution provides a boost in talent not just energy.

Otherwise, just call it "first guy off the bench". A true "Sixth Man" is supposed to be better than the player he replaces in the first rotation.

Here's a snippet from the first article to come up in google that mentions this:

http://espn.go.com/classic/biography/s/auerbach_red.html
ESPN.com
Auerbach's Celtics played as a team
By Lisette Hilton

Most coaches view the starting five as their best players. Auerbach looked to his finishers - those who played when the game was on the line.

The "sixth" man (the first player off the bench) was another Auerbach tactic. While other teams' players were getting tired, Auerbach's fresh reserve was expected to provide a boost. The sixth man became a prestigious assignment in Boston, with Ramsey being the first to star in the assignment.

Auerbach said that the Celtics represent a philosophy that in its simplest form maintains that victory belongs to the team. "Individual honors are nice, but no Celtic has ever gone out of his way to achieve them," he said. "We have never had the league's top scorer. In fact, we won seven league championships without placing even one among the league's top 10 scorers. Our pride was never rooted in statistics."

Brad8888

05-21-2009, 01:04 PM

"A baby's bottom?"

.

Is this another "legitimate" question?

jhondog28

05-22-2009, 05:13 PM

Just wanted to mention that in the past Dun was being used in GS as a 6th man. It worked for a coupel games but the problem is that he is a streak player. When he is hot he can put up numbers with anyone that is playing. Also when he is cold he is ice cold. A strong 6th man has to be able to step in at any time and be the most consistent player on the court because normally you are the strongest threat on the court. The bench relies heavily on your point totals. I just think him being a 6th man is going to hurt his overall abilities. In regards to his defense...i remember a game when he was in GS and he held Lebron to somehting like 10 points for the game. He was guarding him 1 on 1 most of the game so every now and then he can D up.

Hicks

05-22-2009, 05:36 PM

If his problem was inconsistency, I'd rather he be a bench guy than a starter anyway. But I don't recall inconsistency being a glaring issue of his last season?

Infinite MAN_force

05-22-2009, 05:44 PM

the year he was healthy I thought he was by far our most consistent player, more so than granger, who had a lot more ups and downs two years ago.

Ballerzfan

05-23-2009, 10:10 AM

Major Lurker here, come to PD 3-10 times a day to read, just don't often log in or offer my 2c.

I find it interesting to watch the pendulum like swings of the overall boards opinions on players and their respective "roles" for the team. If you go back and read the discussions prior to the 2008 draft up to today, much discussion has been spent on Dun's most productive "role" for the team. Consensus opinions as I see them have been that while he does many things well (locker room, work ethic, scoring, basketball IQ and depending on the poster - defense), his best scenario for the team's overall productivity would be for him to be the first man off the bench to lead the 2nd string.

I believe this has been the boards overall opinion because of 1) lack of dominate post play from the C & PF position 2) lack of ability to get defensive stops when necessary

In all honesty, depending on the Pacers roster each season, Dun and Rush could fulfill either role as starter or 6th man exceedingly well. It honestly depends on the other talent we have around them. While DG is 100% a starter caliber player, a case can and has been made that no one else on the roster is a 100% bona fide starter. Let's take our PF and PG positions. If we could find a big pass first PG, would any of our 3 PG's start? No. If we had an athletic PF that was defensively skilled would Murph start? No.

Our offseason moves, potential trades and who we get in the draft, could change Dun's best role scenario with the team once he's healthy. IMHO, if we are not able to address getting tougher from our front court positions dramatically, then Dun's best role for the team IS one of 6th man. We need better defensive skills in our starting 5 with our current roster. Rush brings that better than Dun. Conversely if we are able to get tougher defensively along the front line, then Dun may be a better choice as a starter in the immediate future to provide offensive punch with Rush bringing defensive ability and energy to the second unit as his confidence builds.

I guess my point is that it's interesting to see the swings of a players perceived role with the team here on PD.

Anthem

05-23-2009, 10:30 AM

I guess my point is that it's interesting to see the swings of a players perceived role with the team here on PD.
Welcome! Great thoughts, and I agree with most completely.

I haven't seen the swings you're talking about, though. The "Dun's ideal role is 6th man" has been predominant since he got here.

Ballerzfan

05-23-2009, 10:56 AM

I haven't seen the swings you're talking about, though. The "Dun's ideal role is 6th man" has been predominant since he got here.

Good point. Probably a better way of expressing what I see is not a current consensus that Dun should be a starter, but a bigger influx of posters calling for Dun to replace Rush in the starting lineup at the earliest possible time.

Anthem

05-23-2009, 11:20 AM

Good point. Probably a better way of expressing what I see is not a current consensus that Dun should be a starter, but a bigger influx of posters calling for Dun to replace Rush in the starting lineup at the earliest possible time.
Yeah, that's probably true.

flox

05-23-2009, 06:33 PM

Sometimes it's smarter to have a better 6th man than 5th starter. There's a reason Pop has Manu as the 6th man while guys like Finley and Bowen have around in the starting lineup. The first unit is not going to need points with Granger, Murph, and Ford; but the second unit might. If the defense is going to get any better, you can't have Dunleavy in the starting lineup, especially coming off surgery. I think the 6th man role is a really nice fit for MDJ.

I don't understand why everyone brings up Manu when Manu plays more minutes than Finley/Bowen, people were killing Hibbert for playing 10-12 minutes as a starter and that's what Bowen/Finley were getting when Manu was healthy, so I don't get it.