Prospective buyer

Please forward any comments you may have for a future owner. I'm considering FS or wet boats like the Laser. Here are a few specific questions to get things started:

1) Dry Sail or not? Is there a substantial benefit to dry sailing the Scot? Our Red Cross Sunfish fleet is dry sailed and the hulls still take on a lot of water. Does this happen in the FS, too?

2) Trailering. It has been said that you can tow a FS with most family sedans. What are they neglecting to mention? One owner I spoke with mentioned he had difficulty seeing around the boat without mirror extensions. (I own a Honda Civic Hybrid which is not up to the task of towing, so I would need to buy a vehicle for this purpose.)

3) Local conditions. Is there anyone who uses their Scot on Lake Pepin (upper Mississippi)? How does it do in those light wind days. Do you use an outboard? Are any of the marina's on Pepin navigable without a motor?

4) Racing rigged vs. cruising. I want a fast boat. Obviously the race rigged boat is going to be tuned for speed -- how substantial a benefit are we talking about? And, I may race it, but there seems to be very little racing on Pepin. (The Lake City fleet is small and mostly J-30s.) My main concern is I want to rock the worldview of any powerboaters I bring on board that may think my rig is "just a sailboat."

2) You can tow with a family sedan. We used a Ford Taurus for a while. However, it was really on the upper limit of that car. If you are planning on towing longer distances, I would suggest getting something a little stronger. We recently sold the Taurus and bought an Explorer and it's a lot nicer. With the Explorer, you hardly know the boat is back there.

With the Explorer, we don't need mirror extensions. For our Taurus, we decided to try the extensions. They were the kind that just strap onto the existing mirrors. They worked fine and cost only maybe $30 or so.

I have a 20 year old scot that is wet sailed. when I bought it the bottom need a little work. I brought the boat down to Flying Scot and they did a great job. The boat is now highly competitive with the new boats in our fleet that are dry sailed. I believe the convience of having the boat in the water, ready to sail is worth it. Any time I go to regattas, I simply turned it on its side then then power wash and wet sand with 400 grit.

Trailering: I have used a Jeep with the 4.0L engine. It is like there is nothing there and the Jeep sits up high enough. I have seen people tow Scots with a VW New Beetle and a Subaru Outback. They have told me that they know the boat is there. I would suggest that you get a SUV with a 3.0L. You will have room for gear and power to pull the boat.

Light Air: Unless you have to vavigate a very narrow channel, I would not bother with the motor, you will not need it. The Scot handles light air very nicely.

Race vs Cruise: There are 3 main differences. Seat cleats, single spinneker halyeard with take-up reel and spinniker sheets through the aft deck and out through the seats. All of these changes make it easier to solo sail.

For backing up the visibility of the Taurus was a bit better than the Explorer. With the Explorer I can't see the tires through the rear window, which I think was possible with the Taurus. In any case I'd recommend a strong vehicle for towing, especially for long distances. It's just less to worry about.

3) Also I second not to bother with an engine and learn how to sail. You'll just get more worries with an engine.

4) Not being an expert I'd say the difference between racing and cruising rigged Flying Scots is that the rigging for boats that race are laid out for efficient sail handling. Also there isn't one way to race rig a boat. Everybody has their preferences on how to lay things out.

Dry Sail. I dry sail mine, but can push it over to a lift and drop it in the water in pretty short time. So if you have access to a storage place next to a lift, this is a nice option. When dry sailed, keep the boat tipped back, even if you buy a cover. Any water will drain out the back. This is important, because the Scot has a balsa core. No problem if it is not in standing water. But if water sits inside the boat it will penetrate small cracks in the fiberglass and rot the core. Then the strength is lost.

When buying a boat, it is good to check and see if the balsa core has bad spots. If you're not sure about this, worth hiring someone who knows fiberglass boats to check it out for you. Basically you just take a wooden mallet or screwdriver handle and tap all the areas where there is balsa core. You should get a healthy bonk, but if you find areas of thud, then an expensive repair is due.

Trailering. I use a Saab 9000 to pull my FS. I only go 25mi or so from back yard to dry sail twice a year. I feel it back there, and keep speed below 70 most of the time. I think the Saab tranny and 4cyl are more robust that your hybrid. If you find an arrangement like mine, you don't need a new car. Just borrow a friend's truck or SUV for a day. Or rent. The world needs more hybrids! Towing is not a problem for me. I cannot see out the inside rear view, but the side views are fine. Actually when towing I am sometimes startled by that big boat following me.

My boat is rigged for cruising. With original 1974 basic hardware. It is pretty fast. Changing the rigging will not make it faster, but sails would in a race. Not worth a couple thou every other year to me. What will make your boat fast and happy is a smooth polished bottom. Something hard to maintain if in the water all of the time.

Sounds like you want to entertain, and the Scot is a great boat for that. But if you want a fun, easy sailing, great to learn about sailing, cheap, unsinkable, raceable boat, buy a Laser. I've gotten pretty cozy with young ladies on mine, but it is really a one man fun boat. Not the party boat that a scot is.

You are not likely to impress most power boaters with any sailboat. I think there is a basicly different outlook between the two. Powerboaters seem interested in getting from point A to B as fast as possible. Sailing is the process of enjoying where you are on the water, or the process of getting there as much or more than the final destination. Pretty hard to change that wiring. DO TRY, but don't be discouraged if it flops.

My experience with my Scot is that it does not really impress with it's speed. I went from our yacht club, around a light house in the bay and back in an hour and a half. I was only watching time because I wanted to get in before dark. It was not until later that I realized I had just gone over 15miles! Averaging 10kts for that distance felt like an easy walk, not a thrilling rush.

The Scot is a very sturdy nice sailing boat. It should serve you well. It is more maintenence and effort than a Laser, but is a good big boat. And VERY stable.

Does anyone have information on some of the other small dinghies out there? Laser, MC Scow, RS600, Skiffs, etc. Maybe there are better forums for these questions, but I'd like to hear what owners have to say about some of the smaller boats in term of fleet support, transportation, storage space and cockpit room.

I have sailed on many different type of boats. Some perform better, others are more comfortable for cruising, while others are very easy to trailer and rig. I believe the best all around sailboat is the Flying Scot. The are many other boats that excell in specific areas. Lasers perform better and smaller to trailer. "C" scows also perform better. However, neither can fit 6 adults on a comfortable sail. I realize that you mentioned that you want to single hand sail. A smaller boat will limit you to ONLY single handed sailing. A flying Scot is a very comfortable boat to sail, whether you are alone or with 5 others. With the retractable centerboard and rudder blade it is very each to beach.

FS certainly has the top hand on this. Smaller boats often can't be reefed. Beside you'll get soaked and may be swimming more than sailing at higher winds 25+ mph. My top limit with the FS is 30 mph winds. If there's a chance of getting higher winds or gust than that I'll get a bit nervous.

> ample low-wind performance to not require a motor

FS as well smaller boats (Laser, Sunfish, Zuma ...) don't need a motor and perform in low-wind although at different degrees.

> low-maintenance is a bonus

Buy a boat & trailer in decent shape and you'll be set.

Before owning the FS I did rent a Zuma from the University. It can hold 2 people and a water jug tied to the mast via a bungee. I figured out that in decent wind leaving the drain plug off will cause the Zuma to become self bailing. This is very useful in stronger winds as it takes a lot of water. Rigging is very quick but it only had a jib, no boat cover, weather vane, or anything else.

Best thing I recomend is to get to know some people with sailboats or just ask strangers if you could sail with them. I bet most would be happy to take you for a spin and brag about their boat. So hang out at the local dock. ;)

I bought my boat (3586) 9 months ago and had most of the same concerns you have expressed in this forum. This is the first boat I bought, having sailed in club boats all of my life up until now. GO FOR IT ! The Scot is the best boat for what you desire, I had the same concerns and have had nothing but positive experiences with my boat since I bought her. I tow with a 2.4 four cylinder Dodge Dakota and have not noticed the boat behind me, even on the steep hills of Tennessee where I live. Plenty of room onboard, just enough work to singlehand or more fun with a crew, a spirited craft in a strong breeze especially when on plane, great community and fellowship with fellow Scot sailors and a joy to own with minimum expenses or maintenance requirements. I dry sail, recommend the same. Hope you pick a Scot, I do not regret at all the purchase of a 23 year old boat. [:)]

Sven: I live near St. Paul and have been planning to trailer my Scot down to Pepin for a day of sailing. You're welcome to join me and participate in rigging and sailing the boat. I've sailed on Pepin for years and love the views. Call me if you wish: 651.303.1957.
I pull the boat with a Dodge Dakota with the 3.9 V6. The power is there but it does tug the truck around and I'd be nervous on a steep ramp.
Bob

quote:[i]Originally posted by Sven[/i]
[br]Anyone have experience sailing both a Scot and Thistle? It looks like the Thistle is less stable and therefore more sensitive to crew weight and a poor choice for singlehanding.

As a first boat, my family purchased a used Thistle (2816) because it was recommended to us as a daysailer-racer. Although the Thistle may have been this, as Sandy Douglass originally conceived and rigged it, it isn't any longer (in my opinion). The Thistle is a wonderful boat: it's very fast, moves in the lightest air, and has beautiful lines. But modern Thistles aren't daysailers; they aren't daysailer-racers; they aren't even racer-daysailers. They are racers. And the ethos of the Thistle class is racing.

You sail a Thistle typically sitting up on 4" wide rails, which is wearing on the "netherlands" after a while. It's cockpit is divided by a thwart that leaves room for one adult forward and two behind (on either side). The boom is low and the vang extends back to the thwart, which makes for a lot of low-ducking & scrambling. There are many hiking straps and lines in the cockpit. Finally, it is tender: have an adult step on the rail of an empty Thistle forward of the shrouds; the boat will turtle at the dock. Yes, you can daysail a Thistle. You can doubtless daysail a 49er or a modern Moth too.

Thistle crews are highly adept at negotiating all this. Families and less experienced sailers like myself are often not. We are currently selling our Thistle. It was interesting to observe the reaction of a prospective buyer who knew the Thistle from its earliest days, when its set-up was apparently far simpler. He was clearly daunted by its current complexity.

None of this represents criticism of the Thistle. It is a wonderful "high-tech racing machine" in Douglas's words, and I'm having a hard time parting with mine. But it's not what Douglass seems to have achieved with the Flying Scot: "a fast boat that anyone can sail": simple, stable, comfortable to sail, very forgiving, and very pretty, with a class ethos that is wider than racing. For the kind of boat my family and I were seeking, it's hard to see how one could better. Honestly!

I was able to get a ride on a Scot this past weekend. I was amazed by the simplicity. I love the long tiller that isn't competing with crew's legroom. As crew on a J/30 and Cal/31, I was stunned to find upon tacking that a single arm's-length pull on the jib sheet will trim it.

It was somewhat challenging to gauge our speed. There were not many other sails on the water, but, we definately passed one larger keelboat. However, I really wanted to catch up with my friend's Cal/31. I couldn't seem to do it. I wasn't really head-to-head racing him though, since were going to the same part of the lake but from different locations on the water. I think part of the problem was we weren't trimmed well. It seemed to me we were over-trimmed and/or too far off the wind causing quite a bit of heel. How close do you find you can point? What are the fastest points of sail on a Scot?

I don't want to beat a dead horse here... but I'm a also a perspective buyer and my concerns haven't been addressed in this specific forum. I've sailed more cruising type of boats like a Catalina 25, Catalina 22, Hunter 260.

Typically I will sail with my wife. And while she's come to enjoy sailing on the C25/C22 she is a bit skiddish around water. If the boat would capsize on us, it would be then end of boat ownership or at least her participation in boat ownership.

I'm interested in an FS because:

*-i'd like to do some club racing
*-I'd like to have a cockpit big enough to take friends and family out for a day
*-I'd like something I can trailer easily when I want to visit another lake
*-I'd like a boat that is fun to sail, good to learn on and stable.

I know that daysailers can capsize (just like any other boat) but someone once described daysailers to me as "its not a matter of if you will capsize, but a matter of when."

Like I said, I know all boats can capsize, but I guess my question is, can I make a mistake and still keep her mast out of the water?

As a relatively new Scot owner I hope to be able to help. My previous boats ranged from a Pearson Ensign 22' up to a Pearson 27' the Scot is my first centerboard boat. One thing you will notice instantly is how responsive a smaller boat is to everything especially wind gusts. If your wife is a bit skiddish you will need to make a habit of always keeping the mainsheet in your hand and ready to ease at all times. How well you do that will greatly effect her enjoyment of the Scot or any other similar size centerboard boat.
My wife and I sailed in our first regatta this past weekend, the first day the winds were variable but not over about 12 to 14 knots and so there was no drama whatsoever. The second day the winds were up around 20 with higher gusts and moderate waves ( the rc claimed waves of 4 to 5 feet but I would say 3 to 4 max.) This was our first time on the boat with winds over 15 and it was a blast, keep in mind my wife is not skiddish. There were 24 boats in the race and only about 15 elected to go out the second day, of those only about 5 decided to set spinnakers. There were two capsizes and both were flying spinnakers at the time and were hit with a gust that overpowered them. A couple other boats broke some gear and retired I think 11 finished. I saw one husband/wife team who had a reef in the main and they seemed to be going along in a relatively calm fashion. Also, both capsized boats were able to be righted by the crew and were not swamped, the boat is designed so it won't fill with water upon capsize. The point to all of this is how far do you push it? We wanted to see what it would be like so we went out but the people who stayed in at the club had there own fun. As your skills improve and comfort level grows you can push more but in the beginning it might be best to be conservative.
The four qualities you seek in a boat sound like a perfect match for a Scot. The class is huge and has a busy race schedule and alot of local fleets. The cockpit is big enough for several adults but more importantly it is less cluttered and more comfortable than most other similar boats. Its easy to trailer, I saw one being pulled by a 4 cylinder Honda Accord but that can't be good for long distances. I drive a Suburban so its effortless, as a test I had it up to 90mph and the boat didn't sway a bit. The boat has a wide beam which contibutes to stability as does the weighted centerboard. The rigging is pretty simple and is a good choice for husband wife teams.
So can you make a mistake and keep the mast out of the water? Yes you can make many mistakes but in strong winds you must play the mainsheet. I would bet there are many long time Scot owners who have not capsized.
Last but not least, planing is fun!

I don't know of a lock down bolt for the center board. There is something like that for the rudder, but I haven't found the need for such a thing. It may be a different story if you sail in a lake with lot of seaweeds.

Its hard to describe briefly but it is a low tech deal. When sitting in a Scot you can see all of the board/cable hardware and maintaining it is not difficult or expensive. There is no lock down, the board is weighted so its not needed and you want the board to kick up when you go aground.

I was once the skiddish one on our Scot, so I'll put in my 2cents. One of the first times we took out our Scot we had fairly strong winds, probably stronger than we really should have been out in considering our experience level. Due to a cleated main and a strong gust, we tipped pretty far. I instinctively leaned over the side (from our days of sailing 12' Zumas, that weight distribution helps muchless with this big boat) and managed to see the centerboard in the water. This was in an inland lake with not the clearest of water, to say the least! That scared me, but in reality, if we didn't capsize then, it would take a very large error to make it happen.

Since then, we took lessons and I've become 10 times less skiddish. I would highly recommend lessons for your wife, especially with some in rougher weather, weather rougher than you would normally sail in. Although we could have learned a lot on our own, there was something much more productive having a calm, much more experienced person *who was not my husband* showing me the ropes. [:D] Even better, we took the lessons on our own boat.

Yeah, the lessons that Melissa and I took helped quite a bit. Not only did Melissa get more comfortable on the boat but we also learned a ton.

We took lessons at Portage Lake Yacht Club/Midwest Sailing in Michigan (http://www.ms-pyc.com/). Basically we made a weeklong vacation out of it and stayed at their cabin right by the lake. The boat was on a lift so it was very easy to get in and out of the water. We still yearn for that convenience. Since those are individual/couple lessons the instructors can adjust to your level of sailing and work directly with what you like to get out of it.
Here are a few pictures: http://www.niesens.com/weekpics/2003-05.en.html

Besides PYC there are other yacht clubs with Flying Scots that offer instructions.

1) Dry Sail or not? You can do either. Dry sailing is better for most racers AND those without water access, not because the boats soak up water but the bottoms remain smoother, use less antifouling paint, are easier to work on, etc. But, If you've got a mooring, then you'll probably enjoy your boat a whole lot more because you'll be able to just jump in and go easier. Water absorbtion can be an issue with any boats. There are an awlful lot of Scots sitting on moorings year after year without having a problem. That should tell you something. The trick is to keep the cockpit covered when left unattended. That way water won't collect in the bottom. Sponge and bucket takes care of it at the end of the sailing day.

3) Local conditions. Can't help you there but if your ever thinking of coming up to Narraggansett Bay, RI drop me a line!

4) Racing rigged vs. cruising. "I want a fast boat"... Don't we all. If you want a fast boat look into multihulls. My other boat is a Stiletto 27 and I can tell you 20+ knots is much better than 7. That being said I got my Scot because of what it is, a safe, stable, family oriented, non-high tech one-design that I won't feel the least bit anxious about taking my 2 and 4 year olds out on it. Can it tip over? Sure but you've got to be either pushing the edge, not paying attention or careless. If you've got to think about wheither it's time to reef or not, then it's time to reef. The Scot is a fantastic platform, especially for new sailors because it's forgiving. If you run aground the CB and rudder lift up at a depth you can stand in. It hasn't lasted this long by being a hard or dangerous boat to sail.

I'll leave you with this suggestion. Buy the Scot. Spend one season sailing it. Sail with other Scot sailers. Take a class or two with your partner. Let her steer! If after that you'll either love it or find it's just not for you and sell it. The beauty of this decision is that if you do decide to sell it, you'll find it's held it's value and you won't have lost much.

Last piece of advice: The only thing on a sailboat that can make you go fast is the sails. Everything else keeps you from going slow. The smoothest hull in the world won't help you if your sails look like yesterdays laundry!

A big factor for me was that there was an active fleet nearby. It's also stable and roomy enough to take the family out on a cruise. Otherwise, the boat is relatively inexpensive, easy to rig and sail and looks great.

John is correct, the one design status and strength of the class cannot be over emphasized. There are always new designs that come out and most fade out. There are only a handful of small boats that catch on and remain viable for the long term, the Scot is one. I chose the Scot for these two reasons and it was a good choice.

You can never be too sure when buying online.especially without a personal visit to look it over yourself (or by a trusted person) unfortunatly there are a number of unscrupulous people that take advantage of Ebay and say they have a first class or show quality unit when it should be sold as scrap. Ebay does a good job of weeding out these people with their feedback system but you still need to be careful.
Use a Escrow service which will hold the purchase funds until you can verify what you bought if it is too far to pick up and it is being shipped. Get lots of pictures and see if there is a way to have a repair shop check it out (you may have to spend some on that)
The only way to be 100% sure of the condition on a boat is to buy a new one. but for me, its the journey, not the trip. I enjoy working on everything. You buy a used boat and have to spend some time cleaning, buffing, patching, rebuilding, whatever. It beats watching the idiot box (TV) and there is nothing like cruising in a boat that you brought back to life (within reason of course) I'd go with a gently used boat myself.
From what I have seen and read, you have to abuse these Scots pretty hard to cause some serious damage. Haven't had mine out on any larger lakes yet but hoping to get out on Lake Pepin soon.

1 -- I believe the only wood trim is the centerboard trunk. You should cover the cockpit to keep as much water out as possible, so this shouldn't take too much of a beating. Check out this site: http://www.flyingscotracing.com/virtual_tour.htm.

2 -- I'm not sure there's a question for this item in your list. The WWP 19 probably has a bigger cockpit than the WWP 15. The boat you choose should consider the type of sailing you want to do. Do you need/want a cabin or is cockpit space more important. If you want to leave a boat on the water, IMHO a WWP may be a better choice. I'm seeking a FS because I want a daysailor that I can easily trailer to several different lakes. If I were leaving a boat on the water all year with limited trailering, I'd get a WWP 19.

3 -- It seems most FS sailors bring their motor inboard when sailing. Could you get away with an electric trolling motor at your lake?

4 -- You can Single-hand an FS, lines led aft help with this.

quote:[i]Originally posted by stormyweather[/i]
[br]1.If a FS is wet sailed, how much wood trim is there that takes a beating from the weather?
2.I've been shopping for a 20 foot or less sailboat and had considered a West Wight Potter 15. I don't really like the small cockpit and cabin on the WWP though.
3.If I buy a sailboat, it will be wet sailed and the marina's slips for sailboats are inside an area that would require a motor on a boat to access the slips. Is it possible to have the motor hanging on a FS and still have a good sailing expeience? I won't be racing.
4.I also will be mostly solo sailing. I know the WWP comes with a single handerlers package. Is a FS equipped for a solo sailer?

I've been reading this thread for a while and thought I would chime in.

I sailed Santana 20's and then a C&C 25. 2 months ago I bought a Scot and all I can say is... I'm in love! I would recommend it to anyone. Keel boats were great, but I actually have more cockpit room now than in either boat I owned before - and I am exceptionally pleased with the stability of the boat. Best yet - I'm still sailing in just a breath of air when all the keel boats are having a drifting contest. The Scot has my vote.

Sven,
1) The Scot will not take on water like a sunfish or any other double-hulled boat. There is no cavity in the Scot that can hide water. There are a number of Scots wet sailed and competitive.

2) I have towed my Scot with the New Beetle, both 1.9L turbo diesel and 1.8L Turbo gas. I looked at Honda's specs on the Hybrid. It weighs in at 2875 lb with 110hp and 123 ft-lbs torque. That's good. Even the electric motor at 20 hp and 75 ft-lbs torque would suffice at low speed. What's nice about electric is it produces full torque at 0 rpm unlike the gas engine were it must be turning 1000-2500 rpm. My rule of thumb is the tow vehicle should be twice the weight of a trailer without brakes. This meets that criteria. Sure you will know it's there, and you will have to extend the outside mirrors; but for short trips of 100 to 200 miles it should be good. The 1.9L turbo diesel still got 35+ mpg with the boat behind it and up to 45 without it.

3)I can’t help with the lower Mississippi, but she does good in light air and comes ready for a motor bracket on the transom.

4) The only difference between Raceing and Cruising rigged is a spinnaker rig. To impress a power-boater then you might need a nice tight reach on a 10-15kt day with the spinnaker up. The Scot has been known to pull a water skier. Check out the Video offered by Flying Scot Inc.

N/A,
The Scot is a great boat to move into. The Neff family did just that, moved up from a Catalina 22 to a Scot. The 22 is a great boat too, but we out grew it within a year. We eventally moved into a Catalina 27, but at the same time kept the Scot. We now have three Scot's in our family.

New is always better than used. The buyer beware is just a disclaimer to avoid liability if a deal goes bad. You can certainly find a good boat on that list, but certainly look at it first.

Painting a boat is nice for a year or two. Then you get a few scratches and the paint eventually peals making it look worse than it started. A little elbow grease, light wet sanding and polishing of old gelcoat is my recommendation.

I, too, am a prospective Scot buyer. My wife and I bought a Catalina 22 a few years back and enjoyed it but I would like something smaller and (I hope) more responsive to the light air often found during the hot and steamy summers here on Alabama inland lakes. Also, we want to trailer it to the bays and sounds on the Gulf Coast. Might the Scot be the boat?

One reason for considering a Scot (along with the Wayfarer and Daysailer) is its reputation for stability. I want something fun and challenging and to dabble in club racing...my wife wants something stable and dry.

I do have some questions I hope someone can help me with:

Has anyone ever painted their FS (hull and/or deck) and if so, how did it turn out and was it durable over several seasons?

This is surely a subjective question; but, is buying a new Scot "worth it" when such good ones seem to be available on the market?

Lastly, is it "safe" to buy a Scot from fleet websites, Ebay, etc.? I ask partly because the fssa.com site itself calls its classifieds page the "caveat emptor (buyer beware)" page!

Thanks again for such a great forum; it's a big help to those of us considering a Flying Scot!

Our family also has 3 Scots at this point, a total of 5 over the years:
3913
3998
5283
5318
5626

Having sailed in many other classes and a number of cruising boats, we have all settled on Scots. The family oriented racing is what attacts us most. We trailer the Scot to regattas from Canada to Florida to race, just driving 1000 miles round trip last weekend to race in a 45 boat fleet at Lake Norman, NC.

I can move my Scot around the yard by hand (not so level grass with lots of mole holes) and towing behind my 1999 Expedition is like there is nothing there. Gas milage actually increased (noticed that with other trailers too)

I usually buy used as it saves some cash. Painting fiberglas is tricky and doesn't seem to hold up as good as the gelcoat finnis. I spent hours buffing out the hull on my Scot, The tarp it was almost under didn't quite cover everything. It looks like new now.

I recently bought FS 4086, built in 1985. I bought it partially because of the strong class. There are over 30 Scots in our local fleet 163 and the fleet has been very helpful in learning to trim the boat rigging and in learning to race it (after years of course-racing windsurfers).

My wife and daughter were tentative about the heeling initially, but as I have learned the boat, I have learned to play the main sheet and sail the boat flatter. The boat is like a "weeble". I have had the boom wet, when my dog was sitting on the main sheet and the jib was cleated in a giant puff. I eased the jib sheet and main and the weeble popped back on its feet like magic. The weighted centerboard is great.

The comraderie of the Scot fleets is fantastic. I have met a few of the posters on this thread, Dan Neff and John Luard, and it's the class association that makes the Scot a great choice. Very friendly racing.

If there is a Scot fleet in your area, it's an easy decision. On used boats, about the only thing that seems to go wrong with Scots is balsa problems from boats that have had water frozen and refrozen in them. Tap all over the deck and bottom with a screwdriver handle and if you hear dull thuds, you have soft areas. The glass should sound solid.

The Flying Scot builders site has a great "how to" on what to look for in a used Scot. Often the local fleet will know of a boat looking for a home, and may be able to help you determine if the boat is a good buy or not.

I purchased my Scot off of a class(fleet) web-site classified, site unseen and was delivered to me in sunny Florida with ice still in the bilge. The Scot people are a trustworthy lot and chances are the seller will pop up at an event sometime and would not want a bad vibe.
Good Luck..terrific boat.[:)][:)]
PS. Blew like stink at our lake a few weeks back, the Wayfarers had more turtles than our local zoo! The Scots just had to go by....chutes up, of course.

You can't go wrong with a Scot. I haven't done any racing but I have not had any problems towing down the road, launching and setting up at various lakes. I have had a full boat of neices and nephews (all wearing life jackets of course) and we had a great time. They all learned a little about how fast you can go with the wind.

Quite a bit is said about racing but they do make a fine boat for cruising. Stable and easy to handle, and if something does break, parts are easy to find.They've been around since the '50's. The best part is you only need 12 inches of water depth to launch them.

I have now had my Scot for 1.5 years, and I have to reiterate how pleased I am with it's habits. The boat has a strong racing class in our area. I have never capsized, but to your question of ANY disadvantages, I will add one.

A few boats at our lake have capsized in racing events, and the Scot tends to float very high in the water, when on it's rail. If it is windy (which is when you capsize) the wind on all that hull area will tend to push the rig underwater and the boat can turtle. In this case, the boat will have a lot of water (be swamped) when righted.

On the Scot, three things (plus one) have been added to help:
1 There is a mast-top flotation that many Scots use, that will prevent turtling. You can see the float on Hi-Noone at:http://www.nockamixonsailclub.org/Gallery/Boats/FSCT5468.html
2 The Bow Flotation bag keeps the bow up, if the boat does turtle and swamp. I added one to my boat, it was easy.
3 New Scots, and many used, come with a 4" drainage port on the transom, that can be removed to empty a swamped boat. I also added this.
(4) Many of the Scot sailors on our lake have added the optional swim ladder. It is not really an aid, in a capsize, but it certainly makes getting back in the boat easier, after the boat is righted. The trick here is to get the crew into the water, to make the boat easier to right. You then need to get the crew back in the boat, thus the swim ladder. If we are sailing in rowdy conditions we wear our PFD's, so that if we capsize, we don't have to think about where our PFD's are.

You can also sail the boat better to avoid problems. Keep the mainsheet in your hand, and when a puff hits, you can flatten the boat. You can also luff up, if needed to lessen heeling. Keep your dog off the mainsheet, and have your crew luff the jib, if you are concerned about heeling angles.

Do you have other Scots in your area? On any given weekend, there are five to ten Scots on our lake, and the community is very close. If you have a problem, there are three boats there to help you, almost immediately. There have been two capsizes (out of about 35 Scots) this year, and both happened when racing in rowdy weather.

My hunch is that most Scot sailors, that have actually capsized, did so when racing, when they were pushing hard. I have spoken to sailors who have not capsized in many years of racing the Scot.

If you buy a good used Scot, sail it for a few years and sell it, you would likely be able to sell for almost what you paid. For a few hundred dollars cost (or profit) of ownership, you can have a lot of fun.

My family has owned several sail boats including the Sandy Douglas designed Thistle and Highlander.

The first Sandy D boat in our family was the Highlander.
Pros:
Huge boat; huge sail area; fast; stable; easily moves in extremely light air; great members in Highlander class always willing to help new owners.
Cons:
Huge boat (storing in my garage for winter required both cars to sit outside); small class concentrated mostly in IN, OH, PA, MI; because smaller class, not as easy to buy/sell good used boats.

Second Sandy D boat in our family was the Thistle.
Pros:
Smaller than Highlander; lighter than Highlander; huge sail area; fast; moves easily in almost no wind; open (no deck); large class spread out over several states with membership always willing to support new owners; most beautiful centerboard boat I've ever seen (poetry on water).
Cons:
Boat is a big canoe with a sail (so, not so stable); class geared mostly to racing (not too many cruisers); not so comfortable for a family outing; high maintanence; low boom (must be coordinated/agile to get between boom/centerboard and through control lines when tacking/jibing).

Consider the Thistle like a Porche (fast, beautiful, finicky, higher maintenance). The Highlander is like a fast SUV (a hardier boat that is not quite a prone to breaking as the Thistle). We sold the Highlander to buy the Thistle because our daughters wanted to race in junior programs; the Thistle was a fleet in the organized junior racing programs (the Highlander was not). I can't say enough about how impressed I was with all of the expert assistance my daughters received from Thistle class members to accelerate their learning curve. I was also impressed with the expert help we received from several Highlander class members.

I am now interested in owning a Flying Scot. 1) I like the Sandy Douglas designs; 2) more comfortable for aging empty nesters; 3) largest Sandy D design class; 4) appears to be a very stable boat. I see the Scot as a good compromise of comfort and speed with great class support. Active cruising and racing members. Several people own/race more than one of the Sandy D design boats because of the great class support. These classes also have strict one design rules that keep old boats just as competitive as new ones; so you don't have to have deep pockets to be competitive. All three classes are great. Pick one that meets your priorities, with a solid local fleet, and you'll have a blast. If you buy used, try to get a local fleet member to look at boats with you (I was fortunate to have this help when I bought my Highlander and Thistle).

quote:[i]Originally posted by DougW[/i]
[br]I'm a prospective Flying Scot buyer, looking for an easily trailerable CB family daysailer and a boat my teenaged boys and I can learn to race with. I've looked at several of the boats mentioned in these discussions, such as the Thistle and Wayfarer. I I really appreciate your thoughts and comparisons with the FS, and have learned lots! I've also been looking at the Highlander, but haven't read any comparisons of the FS and Highlander for my needs as a realtively new sailor. Could you experienced racers and daysailors who know both boats give me your thoughts? Thanks lots!

I am also considering buying a Flying Scot and this thread has been helpful. I’ve been looking hard for a lightly sailed family package model (I’m told they’re better suited for single handed sailing than the racing models), but haven’t found an acceptable one, so I’m leaning toward buying new. While I’ve read that they hold their value better than other boats, it’s hard for me to commit to what I’ll spend for a new one [:0] when I see other used boats for sale outfitted for light cruising for less than half the price of a new F.S. Still, I’ve not found a boat that I think would better suit my skill level and provide the long-term enjoyment of improving my sailing while being relatively inexpensive to operate with low maintenance. Of course, by buying new, I can order exactly what I want and avoid all the shopping for--and carefully inspecting--a used boat.

I’ve taken two local sailing classes and attended a four-day sailing school, plus lots of practice, mostly on Sunfish—a great way to learn, but at 54 I’m tired of the cramped cockpit, banged up legs and constantly sailing wet. While I live in the Columbus, Ohio area, my wife and I spend a lot of time over the summer at her mother’s at Lakeside, Ohio. I’m thinking of sailing on Sandusky Bay and, as conditions permit and my skills improve, Lake Erie. At this point, I’m not interested in racing.

First off, buying a sailboat is not unlike buying an automobile. Neither is typically an "investment" but rather an expense. If you are like many individuals you wish to minimize this expense while at the same time not prostituting everything for the sake of a dollar. Purchasing a FS would be analogous to buying a high-end Honda or Toyota both of which are comfortable and responsive cars yet depreciate at a slower rate than other brands. Your belief that a family cruiser version of the FS is more suitable for single-handling is argueable. I am 63 and sail alone often on a race equipped Scot; I just don't employ the race goodies. You may find that a non-race equipped version may be priced a few dollars less. If you look long enough you will find a lightly used Scot for a fair price. One nice aspect of buying a used Scot (versus a used Honda or Toyota) is it is quite easy to determine the condition of the boat, everything is exposed! On the FSSA website you can refer to procedures for buying an FS with the most important scrutiny being the balsa core in the boat. Also look in your area for FS fleets or individual owners I guarantee they will help. I'm certainly not trying to discourage buying a new boat but armed with a little knowledge you will come across my mother's Honda Accord which literally was only driven to church on Sunday!!

BenBlee:
If you do end up sailing in Columbus, OH, I can personally highly recommend Hoover Sailing Club (www.hooversailingclub.com) as a good home base. I spent many years there. They have great organized sailing every week. Hoover is also home to several top level sailors who are always willing to help you get faster.

quote:[i]Originally posted by BenBlee[/i]
[br]I am also considering buying a Flying Scot and this thread has been helpful. I’ve been looking hard for a lightly sailed family package model (I’m told they’re better suited for single handed sailing than the racing models), but haven’t found an acceptable one, so I’m leaning toward buying new. While I’ve read that they hold their value better than other boats, it’s hard for me to commit to what I’ll spend for a new one [:0] when I see other used boats for sale outfitted for light cruising for less than half the price of a new F.S. Still, I’ve not found a boat that I think would better suit my skill level and provide the long-term enjoyment of improving my sailing while being relatively inexpensive to operate with low maintenance. Of course, by buying new, I can order exactly what I want and avoid all the shopping for--and carefully inspecting--a used boat.

I’ve taken two local sailing classes and attended a four-day sailing school, plus lots of practice, mostly on Sunfish—a great way to learn, but at 54 I’m tired of the cramped cockpit, banged up legs and constantly sailing wet. While I live in the Columbus, Ohio area, my wife and I spend a lot of time over the summer at her mother’s at Lakeside, Ohio. I’m thinking of sailing on Sandusky Bay and, as conditions permit and my skills improve, Lake Erie. At this point, I’m not interested in racing.

To gleninst and mad max, thanks for your replies. I've talked with four members of the FS Fleet at Hoover Sailing Club near Columbus. They've been very helpful with sharing their experience and thoughts on the advantages and disadvantages of the various options. I feel better informed about my search for a used FS and hope to be joining FSSA and HSC in the near future.

quote:[i]Originally posted by BenBlee[/i]
[br]To gleninst and mad max, thanks for your replies. I've talked with four members of the FS Fleet at Hoover Sailing Club near Columbus. They've been very helpful with sharing their experience and thoughts on the advantages and disadvantages of the various options. I feel better informed about my search for a used FS and hope to be joining FSSA and HSC in the near future.

I live in Columbus and sail on Sandusky Bay. I have been a book student of the sport for a while and just bought my FS last year. What a blast! I have set my goal for sailing out of the bay and around Kelly's this year. (my wife says I need to launch from Lakeside, but we will debate that the day of my feat) Anyways, I bought the used FS1688, inexpensive, and have bought sails, through the forum, and plan on changing/adding some rigging, paint, etc. as time nad necessity presents itself. For real cheap, you can be sailing and for just as cheap you can make the boat suit what you want to do...

Thanks for replying, Kyle. I've been in touch with members of the F.S. Fleet at Hoover Sailing Club who've told me they think Sandusky Bay would be a great area to sail. They have an annual Lake Erie cruise from the Mazurik access, just west of Lakeside, around Kelly's Island with an overnight there, then return. I'm still shopping for a used FS and have a few possibilities. Having never owned a sailboat, I don't want take the plunge with the cost of a new one. I'll contact you off the forum as I'd like to hear more about your experience.

I can't agree that new is always better than used. We all are trying to balance three resources: time, money, and energy. Purchasing a new Scot typically only saves time. If you don't live close to a dealer the effort to get a new Scot may be equal or more than finding a used one. As far as trouble after the sail goes, finding a boat cared for by a meticulous owner may be the best choice. Why? because you avoid infant mortality in the product. Who hasn't bought something new only to get it out of the box to find it not working. Admittedly, infant mortality should be low in a product like the Scot. But things can still go wrong... Swags can be bad, gelcoat can have defects, damage can occur in shipping. These problems will have been resolved by a meticulous owner. As far as money goes, new is nearly always the most expensive option. First year depreciation alone will pay for many a good used Scot.

As for painting, with the new single and two part polyurethanes, I couldn't disagree more. First I find it easier to paint a boat than to buff out a boat, but that is because I have painted several boats. First timers will find it more difficult, but they can still get good results by rolling the paint on. I think it is worth the effort. Why? Because the result is so much better, and will last a lot longer. Moreover, a decent paint job will increase the value of the boat.

Problems with peeling indicate poor preparation or poor paint. A good hard paint is less susceptible to scratches than gelcoat alone. Gouges in the paint also effect the gelcoat. Color matching in gelcoat is difficult because gelcoat changes color as it cures. Even pros are forced to trail and error. Leftover polyurethane has a long shelf life (unlike gelcoat) and will produce easy nearly imperceptible patches.

Personally, I think the older fundamentally sound Scot is the best choice for my time, money, effort situation. It probably represents the least downside risk. Especially for the new sailor. Get in the boat and sail. If you hit a dock, so what! After a year or so, fix the cosmetics, or if you yearn for new gelcoat smell, go for it. You'll be less likely to mess up your new baby!

quote:[i]Originally posted by fs2929[/i]
[br]N/A,
The Scot is a great boat to move into. The Neff family did just that, moved up from a Catalina 22 to a Scot. The 22 is a great boat too, but we out grew it within a year. We eventally moved into a Catalina 27, but at the same time kept the Scot. We now have three Scot's in our family.

New is always better than used. The buyer beware is just a disclaimer to avoid liability if a deal goes bad. You can certainly find a good boat on that list, but certainly look at it first.

Painting a boat is nice for a year or two. Then you get a few scratches and the paint eventually peals making it look worse than it started. A little elbow grease, light wet sanding and polishing of old gelcoat is my recommendation.

I, too, am a prospective Scot buyer. My wife and I bought a Catalina 22 a few years back and enjoyed it but I would like something smaller and (I hope) more responsive to the light air often found during the hot and steamy summers here on Alabama inland lakes. Also, we want to trailer it to the bays and sounds on the Gulf Coast. Might the Scot be the boat?

One reason for considering a Scot (along with the Wayfarer and Daysailer) is its reputation for stability. I want something fun and challenging and to dabble in club racing...my wife wants something stable and dry.

I do have some questions I hope someone can help me with:

Has anyone ever painted their FS (hull and/or deck) and if so, how did it turn out and was it durable over several seasons?

This is surely a subjective question; but, is buying a new Scot "worth it" when such good ones seem to be available on the market?

Lastly, is it "safe" to buy a Scot from fleet websites, Ebay, etc.? I ask partly because the fssa.com site itself calls its classifieds page the "caveat emptor (buyer beware)" page!

Thanks again for such a great forum; it's a big help to those of us considering a Flying Scot!

I've located a Flying Scot near my home that appears to be sound. It's a Douglas built from about 1972. I want to make a detailed inspection before committing to buy, but I noted a couple of things (and I've read about them elsewhere in the forum). First, there are a number of what appear to be cosmetic scratches and chips, but there is no sign of delamination or core damage. Worst of the scratches are along the port side where the boat was left by a previous owner without fenders along a dock. Second, the mast was apparantly stressed, probably during raising or lowering as the's a small vertical crack along the side at the base. The seller thinks I could have that welded (don't know anything about welding aluminum), but I also noticed that some have bought a mast sleeve. Otherwise, the hull, hardware and sails appear to be in fairly good condition for its age. If I buy, I intend to use this as my "trainer" or starter boat as I've never owned a sailboat before. Anyone have thoughts or advice?