Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Who can watch the watchmen?"No one is paying attention to your post reports"Why do posters that claim to have me blocked keep sending me pms and responding to my posts? That makes no sense.

But it had not been in Tess's power - nor is it in anybody's power - to feel the whole truth of golden opinions while it is possible to profit by them. She - and how many more - might have ironically said to God with Saint Augustine, "Thou hast counselled a better course than thou hast permitted."

I think I'll give some money to God today, via: 1) the collection plate at church; 2) the Salvation Army kettle; and 3) the homeless guy on the street corner.

Hmm ... did I leave anyone out?

Oops! Forgot dattaspammi!

Sorry, I'm all out!

Hey - since you're God - how about giving ME some money?

There are three strong bonds for a human being:

1) Bond with husband or wife

2) Bond with children

3) Bond with money

The bond with money is the strongest of all the three bonds since all your relatives depend on you only due to financial reasons. Vashishtha said to Rama ‘Dhana Mula Midam Jagat’ which means that money is the root of this entire world. When money and God compete with each other, money alone succeeds since people worship God only for money. They want money from God and they want to give that money to their children. Out of that money, they do not give even a little to God. Even if they give some money to God, they want several times more from God in return. If you give some money to God’s work, without aspiring for anything in return, you are viewed very highly in the eyes of God. Donation of money proves your real love.

You are giving all your money to your children. So your real love is only for your children. You have served them in their childhood. When they become adults, even if they do not serve you in return or even if they insult you, you are giving all your property to them alone. But in the case of God, you are not giving even one rupee (1 cent) to God, doubting whether He will help you after taking this one rupee (1 cent) in advance. You are treating God just as an outsider. He is nowhere near your children.

I think I'll give some money to God today, via: 1) the collection plate at church; 2) the Salvation Army kettle; and 3) the homeless guy on the street corner.

Hmm ... did I leave anyone out?

Oops! Forgot dattaspammi!

Sorry, I'm all out!

Hey - since you're God - how about giving ME some money?

Love to God is tested by money

Today money is the real instrument by which only one can test the real love. If somebody donates money for the sake of Lord's work, he has the real love to the Lord. Everyone gives money to his family because he has the real love to his family only. This is the fire test in which the real color of the love can be seen. Holy Jesus said that the heart of anybody lies there only wherever his money lies. Holy Jesus criticizes the rich man only when he does not sacrifice. His criticism of rich people applies only when the money is stored for selfish purpose even after acquiring the minimum needs. Earning money is not a sin. Infact one should always work and earn the money. But storing money is the sin. Therefore "earn and sacrifice" is the real spiritual aim.

Ofcourse in the case of saints all their work is dedicated to the Lord only and they have sacrificed even the family bonds completely. Money is another form of the work, which is the fruit of the work. Therefore, it is the same whether one sacrifices his money or work for the sake of the work of the Lord. The work of the Lord is only to uplift the entire world in spiritual line.

Therefore do not cast away your confidence, which has great reward (Hebrews 10:35).

I think I'll give some money to God today, via: 1) the collection plate at church; 2) the Salvation Army kettle; and 3) the homeless guy on the street corner.

Hmm ... did I leave anyone out?

Oops! Forgot dattaspammi!

Sorry, I'm all out!

Hey - since you're God - how about giving ME some money?

I have started a Trust, which carries on three programmes:

• Printing the divine knowledge in the form of books • Distributing the cassettes containing devotional songs and • Feeding beggars who are unable to earn (children, old, disabled and diseased).

You have charged me that I am asking money for my sake. It is only for the work of mission. I told that God comes even in one human generation in several human forms to cater to the needs of people present in different spiritual levels, in different regions and in different religions. I never stated that I am the only human incarnation. Every divine preacher is a human incarnation of God. Only God speaks through them. Only God does the divine work through them.

I consider all the Christian fathers and all the saints of Hinduism, Islam, and Buddhism as incarnations of God at different levels. Starting from the professor of a university every one is a teacher up to the schoolmaster. Even the professor has to teach like a schoolmaster if he is present in school-class. I told that one must take lot of time in analysing and selecting the real spiritual preacher. Then he should involve in the service sacrificing work and fruit of work.

You have twisted this point in My case to show your personal hatred to me. You must know that this sacrifice is praised in Gita. Even in Bible Jesus asked to sacrifice money and family for His sake. A person of other religion will criticise Jesus as you have criticised Me now. I preached the concept of Gita after practice only. I have sacrificed all the earnings of My lifetime for spiritual mission only.

Generally poeple approach God for their personal benefit. They use God for fulfilling their desires, for such people there is no need of God coming in human form and preaching divine knoweldge etc, because they worship God for time pass and for getting something in return for them. For such people, divine knowledge is a waste.....

I'm sorry, but there are people in the world who love their parents, there wives and children, their friends and family NOT because they can get something in return, but simply for the sake of loving them.

Our point is the same thing. What is the point? Showing same love to God as we show our love to dear and near ones. For example when you show love to them, you are not praying by names or singing their glories! You practically serve them by giving food, money, cloth etc which are practical. You are not doing any theory like praying on them, singing on them etc! Directly you do all practical service to them that too without anybodies compulsion or request... This is inherent in us. The same thing should be extended to GOd also...

I absolutely agree! I think every person reading this would also agree with that statement. So much of what you say is merely affirming what we already accept. You're preaching to the choir so to speak.

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Your theory should become practical incase of God. You should practically love GOd without any expecation of anything in return.

Agreed!

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For this to happen, God has to be with us in human form.

This is where we disagree, because Jesus taught that whatsover we do to the least (the poor, the widows, the hungry, those in prison etc) we ARE doing to him.

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To a living God only we can do practical service like serving in His mission of divine knowledge propagation. To a living God only we can give money as our offering.

So we should give God money? Exactly what does God need with money? It's like in Star Trek 5 when Kirk asks, "what does God need with a starship?"

I presume by "God" you mean, well you?!

Umm, I asked this earlier and received no response but what evidence do you have that you in fact are God? None of us have even heard you speak in person, only what you type. If you were preaching some revolutionary teaching as Jesus did, okay, pretty good claim. But you're not saying anything at all that hasn't been said hundreds of times before. Much of which simply appears to by paraphrases of writings from people like Paramahansa Yogananda. What you type is SO general and unspecific it could be read in literally hundreds of books from many dozens of authors like Yogananda or a number of others.

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Whom you give importance family or God in human form.... This happens only when your love on God is high comapred to other love... Till then GOd will not test you...

Umm, actually Jesus told a story about how it was WRONG to give money to a religious organization/temple/people claiming some spiritual authority when the money was actually meant to be given to one's parents. (I think it's in Mark but maybe someone else can find the reference for me)

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The point is not about imaginable form or unimaginable form of God. The point is whether you can prove practically that God is highest for you or not?

A voice from the sky came down to Abraham asking him that whether he can sacrifice his son for the sake of God. Here God is not in the visible form. Abraham immediately proved his devotion. Jesus asked the fishermen to leave everything and follow Him. They left everything and followed Jesus. Here, Abraham and fishermen proved their highest devotion for God. In the case of Abraham God was in invisible form and unimaginable. In the case of fishermen God was in a visible human form. Therefore, the imaginable and unimaginable concepts of God are not important.

Wait, didn't you say we need a tangible God to serve? Then what are you doing quoting the story of Abraham where God is not at all tangible?

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Your imagination cannot transcend the dimensions of space to understand God, who is beyond space, being the creator of space.

I'd actually agree with that!

NP

<sigh>

If I may ask, exactly what are you sighing about? It is not at all clear.

Why are you concentrating in lesser important aspects etc. Now it is true that you are existing, the world is existing and your various bonds are existing , you shall now concentrate on developing bond with GOd through the knowledge of GOD.

Real Liberation & Salvation

This physical world, which consists of the inert objects like Sun, Moon, Stars Air, Earth etc., is not the world, which is binding you and this is notThe world from which you have to attain the liberation or salvationIf you get salvation from this physical world it is called the death

Death is not the salvation since even after death you are bound by the bondsThe bonds are not with the physical world but they are with your family membersIt is this family that constitutes your entire world from which you must be salvated

The physical world is real and it is unreal for the creator only and not for youYou are a part and parcel of this world and if you say that this world is unreal You too become unreal, your unreal world is your own family, which is created By yourself only and why this is unreal?

If you analyse, these bonds did not exist Before this birth and do not exist after this birth and hence are not existingDuring this birth also, Sankara told that temporary is always unreal Therefore, Gita emphasizes for the detachment from these worldly bonds

Jesus goes one step further and advises you even to hate these family bondsThis is surprising but if you analyse, I should say, He is absolutely correctIf you analyse deeply, these family members deserve your hatred and not loveThe reason is that these family members were very vehement enemies to youIn the previous birth you stole their hard earned property and fought with themNow they have come to collect their wealth from you along with the Compound interest, they are in the form of wife and children and you are bound

To pay them according to the force of Karma Chakra i.e., associated with Kala ChakraPayment of loans is Karma Chakra and payment in this birth is Kala ChakraThe same is said “Runanubandha Rupena Pasu Patni Sutalayaah”The three strongest bonds are with money, wife and children and these threeAre called as “Eeshanaas”, which are the stainless steel chains, which neverCorrode, the secret in the force of these three bonds is only the force of KarmaThe Karma is the payment of the loans with interest and for that you have to earn Therefore, you are forced by Karma to earn the money and that is the spontaneous Attraction to the money, the Karma is dragging you to earn the money so that You can pay to your enemies who are surrounding you for the collection of loans

Thus these three bonds are inter related and amalgamated by the force of KarmaThese enemies are in the mask of friendship and love with you and you do not Remember your previous birth, which is again due to the force of karma onlyIf you remember the previous birth and that enmity you will not repay the loanTherefore, by the force of Karma Chakra only you do not remember previous birthThese enemies can collect their money only under the mask of love and friendship

These enemies are collecting their money in the form of work and also money The mother repays the loan by doing work like bathing and clothing the childrenSuch sacrifice of work by the mother is coming under Karma Sanyasa The father repays the money by giving his hard earned property to the childrenAnd this repayment of direct wealth comes under Karma Phala Tyaga.

But these enemies are not satisfied with simple repayment of their loansIf a thief steals your money and if you catch him will you leave him Just by taking your money? You will torture him and then only leave Similarly, you have stolen their property and you tortured themTherefore, they have caught the thief in this birth and collect their money Apart from that they will torture you by dragging you down from the Lord

If you progress in your spiritual path and reach and please the LordYou are saved permanently and attain eternal happiness here and thereNow these enemies obstruct your spiritual path and drag you back From that Eternal divine benefit and due to that you will fall in this world-cycleIn this cycle, which is the permanent hell, you are tortured foreverBy this, their vengeance is subsided and they stand around you even In your last minutes so that you will be attracted by them then also

And you will not remember the Lord even in the last minuteThis is the reason why all your family members reach you even before your deathThey reach you when they hear that you are seriously ill, they are very alert But you fool! You are not alert about them and remember them only even on the Death bed! Is your this world not really unreal? You analyse the fact

I say this family world is the most unreal world because these bonds are not onlyUnreal according to the analysis of Sankara, but also they are the bonds Of enmity and so must be hated according to the Holy JesusYou are thinking the enemy as your friend! How unreal is this bond?First you come out of this unreal world created by you due to your past deeds

People say often that the world is unreal, yes! It is absolutely unrealBut the world is not this physical world created by the Lord The unreal world is your family created by yourself due to your past karma

Similarly, your religion is another broader unreal world created by youYour fellow religious people obstruct you from entering Universal spiritualityBecause they are your enemies in the mask of friendship in this birthYou harmed them spiritually in the previous birth and therefore they have comeNow here as your friends belonging to the same religion and revenge upon youWhen you come out of these two worlds, which are well and river You will enter the Universal Spirituality, which is the infinite ocean

The indigenous church of Kerala, India has a tradition that St. Thomas sailed there to spread the Christian faith. He landed at the ancient port of Muziris (which became extinct in 1341 AD) near Kodungalloor. He then went to Palayoor (near preset-day Guruvayoor), which was a priestly community at that time. He left Palayoor in AD 52 for the southern part of what is now Kerala State, where he established the Ezharappallikal, or "Seven and Half Churches". These churches are at Kodungallur, Kollam, Niranam, Nilackal (Chayal), Kokkamangalam, Kottakkayal (Paravoor), Palayoor (Chattukulangara) and Thiruvithamcode Arappally (Travancore) - the half church. (See also Saint Thomas of Mylapur).

"It was to a land of dark people he was sent, to clothe them by Baptism in white robes. His grateful dawn dispelled India's painful darkness. It was his mission to espouse India to the One-Begotten. The merchant is blessed for having so great a treasure. Edessa thus became the blessed city by possessing the greatest pearl India could yield. Thomas works miracles in India, and at Edessa Thomas is destined to baptize peoples perverse and steeped in darkness, and that in the land of India." - Hymns of St. Ephraem, edited by Lamy (Ephr. Hymni et Sermones, IV).

I wouldn't say I'm concentrating on it. It was just a question. If you're incapable of answering, that's fine; don't worry about it. Your avoidance actaully answers the question adequately.

Hinduism preaches rebirth. Christianity says that there is no rebirth. One has to solve this contradiction. I am giving a solution. You are welcome to give a better solution, if any. You neither give a better solution nor accept My solution. You want the contradiction to be alive like a burning fire and you want to make this world into a hell with these religious fights. You do not care about other religions.

You are rigid about your own misinterpretation of your scripture. You say that your scripture in the light of your own misinterpretation alone is correct. This indirectly means that the other religion is wrong. After sometime you will come out directly saying that the other religion is wrong. The people of other religions do the same thing. This creates hatred among the people. Love vanishes. Fights and wars result. You are responsible for all this chaos.

The solution I give here is that there is no rebirth as far as the spiritual chance is concerned; the real human birth is lost. Even if you get human rebirths, you will only be immersed in worldly bonds. When the concept of God and divine knowledge is lost, such human births are as good as animals (Pashuvat Naraanam). Thus, both religions are synchronised. Moreover, God can give human rebirths to deserving souls and He is not bound by any rule. However, I only criticize Hindus and appreciate Christians in this point.

Hindus are postponing their spiritual efforts thinking that there are several human rebirths. In Hinduism also it is said that human rebirth is very rare (Nara Janma Durlabham—Shankara). I remove the contradiction and appreciate the merit, wherever it lies. You said that animals cannot remember their previous births. But even human beings do not remember their previous births and therefore they are no better than animals in this aspect. The human being who has the spiritual chance alone uses his discrimination power (Buddhi) and thus he alone is the real human being. Other (worldly) human beings are as good as animals. You stand firm on the knowledge of Jesus. I will never oppose you in that point. What I say is that you should stand firm on the real interpretation of the knowledge of Jesus and not on the narrow interpretations given by certain conservative people.

The indigenous church of Kerala, India has a tradition that St. Thomas sailed there to spread the Christian faith. He landed at the ancient port of Muziris (which became extinct in 1341 AD) near Kodungalloor. He then went to Palayoor (near preset-day Guruvayoor), which was a priestly community at that time. He left Palayoor in AD 52 for the southern part of what is now Kerala State, where he established the Ezharappallikal, or "Seven and Half Churches". These churches are at Kodungallur, Kollam, Niranam, Nilackal (Chayal), Kokkamangalam, Kottakkayal (Paravoor), Palayoor (Chattukulangara) and Thiruvithamcode Arappally (Travancore) - the half church. (See also Saint Thomas of Mylapur).

"It was to a land of dark people he was sent, to clothe them by Baptism in white robes. His grateful dawn dispelled India's painful darkness. It was his mission to espouse India to the One-Begotten. The merchant is blessed for having so great a treasure. Edessa thus became the blessed city by possessing the greatest pearl India could yield. Thomas works miracles in India, and at Edessa Thomas is destined to baptize peoples perverse and steeped in darkness, and that in the land of India." - Hymns of St. Ephraem, edited by Lamy (Ephr. Hymni et Sermones, IV).

St. Thomas was directly associated with Lord Jesus. And he learned divine knowledge from Jesus directly. He simply preached what he learned from Jesus.

But St. Thomas as not God in human form, he was a saint, who preached the divine knowledge of God in human form.....

I'm sorry, but there are people in the world who love their parents, there wives and children, their friends and family NOT because they can get something in return, but simply for the sake of loving them.

Our point is the same thing. What is the point? Showing same love to God as we show our love to dear and near ones. For example when you show love to them, you are not praying by names or singing their glories! You practically serve them by giving food, money, cloth etc which are practical. You are not doing any theory like praying on them, singing on them etc! Directly you do all practical service to them that too without anybodies compulsion or request... This is inherent in us. The same thing should be extended to GOd also...

I absolutely agree! I think every person reading this would also agree with that statement. So much of what you say is merely affirming what we already accept. You're preaching to the choir so to speak.

Quote

Your theory should become practical incase of God. You should practically love GOd without any expecation of anything in return.

Agreed!

Quote

For this to happen, God has to be with us in human form.

This is where we disagree, because Jesus taught that whatsover we do to the least (the poor, the widows, the hungry, those in prison etc) we ARE doing to him.

Quote

To a living God only we can do practical service like serving in His mission of divine knowledge propagation. To a living God only we can give money as our offering.

So we should give God money? Exactly what does God need with money? It's like in Star Trek 5 when Kirk asks, "what does God need with a starship?"

I presume by "God" you mean, well you?!

Umm, I asked this earlier and received no response but what evidence do you have that you in fact are God? None of us have even heard you speak in person, only what you type. If you were preaching some revolutionary teaching as Jesus did, okay, pretty good claim. But you're not saying anything at all that hasn't been said hundreds of times before. Much of which simply appears to by paraphrases of writings from people like Paramahansa Yogananda. What you type is SO general and unspecific it could be read in literally hundreds of books from many dozens of authors like Yogananda or a number of others.

Quote

Whom you give importance family or God in human form.... This happens only when your love on God is high comapred to other love... Till then GOd will not test you...

Umm, actually Jesus told a story about how it was WRONG to give money to a religious organization/temple/people claiming some spiritual authority when the money was actually meant to be given to one's parents. (I think it's in Mark but maybe someone else can find the reference for me)

Quote

The point is not about imaginable form or unimaginable form of God. The point is whether you can prove practically that God is highest for you or not?

A voice from the sky came down to Abraham asking him that whether he can sacrifice his son for the sake of God. Here God is not in the visible form. Abraham immediately proved his devotion. Jesus asked the fishermen to leave everything and follow Him. They left everything and followed Jesus. Here, Abraham and fishermen proved their highest devotion for God. In the case of Abraham God was in invisible form and unimaginable. In the case of fishermen God was in a visible human form. Therefore, the imaginable and unimaginable concepts of God are not important.

Wait, didn't you say we need a tangible God to serve? Then what are you doing quoting the story of Abraham where God is not at all tangible?

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Your imagination cannot transcend the dimensions of space to understand God, who is beyond space, being the creator of space.

I'd actually agree with that!

NP

<sigh>

If I may ask, exactly what are you sighing about? It is not at all clear.

I sigh because the thread has run 28 pages long and people are still trying to dialogue with this joker.

Let the thread die...

Logged

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But it had not been in Tess's power - nor is it in anybody's power - to feel the whole truth of golden opinions while it is possible to profit by them. She - and how many more - might have ironically said to God with Saint Augustine, "Thou hast counselled a better course than thou hast permitted."

The Lingayat movement championed the cause of the down-trodden, rebelling against a powerful brahminical system which promoted social inequality through a caste system that branded a whole class of people (harijans) as polluted. Going against the way of the times, the Lingayats rejected Vedic authority, caste hierarchy, the system of four ashramas, a multiplicity of Gods, ritualistic (and self-aggrandizing) priestcraft, animal sacrifice, karmic bondage, the existence of inner worlds, duality of God and soul, temple worship and the traditions of ritual purity-pollution.

Logged

If you will, you can become all flame.Extra caritatem nulla salus.In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness". सर्वभूतहितἌνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas GandhiY dduw bo'r diolch.

Wow. I guess I'm kinda flattered, to be honest. I've never been given this much credit before. I am personally responsible for all the world's chaos?

Here, 'you' is a generic term, not you.....

Oh, okay. But if you consider Christianity to be responsible for all the world's chaos involving religion, then why would you want your beliefs to be unified with it in the first place? I'm still very confused.

Who told christianity is responsible for world's chaos......Fanatics are responsible for worlds chaos.

If you argue that the human incarnation of your religion alone is correct, you will face the following powerful question:

Your human incarnation appeared in a particular region in a particular time only and gave the correct message to the people of that particular region only. After that, several generations passed before that particular message reaches the other regions of the world. All these generations missed that message and went to hell after death. If your message reached all the regions of the world in the beginning itself, at least some of the passed generations might have benefited. If your God alone created this entire earth and all this humanity is His issue, there should be no partiality in giving the message to one region only and allow other regions to be deprived of such fortune. This concludes that your God is partial to one region without reason or that your God did not create this entire humanity.

You have no answer for this question but we have the answer. Your God is impartial to all humanity and is the creator of this entire humanity. Even though the absolute God gave a particular message to a particular region through a particular human form, the same absolute God gave the same message in different human forms to other regions also. The language of the message may differ but the message is one and the same. The form, culture, dress etc., of the human incarnations in different regions may be different but the absolute God in these human incarnations is one and the same and hence His message is also one and the same delivered to all regions in the same time impartially.

Therefore, all the human beings are the children of the same God and hence there must be brotherly hood between all the human beings.

Wow. I guess I'm kinda flattered, to be honest. I've never been given this much credit before. I am personally responsible for all the world's chaos?

Here, 'you' is a generic term, not you.....

Oh, okay. But if you consider Christianity to be responsible for all the world's chaos, then why would you want your beliefs to be unified with it in the first place? I'm still very confused.

Another example of fanaticsm is

Bin Laden tried to kill Christians and Hindus in America

You take a group of devotees having the common form of God like Krishna or Jesus. All of them get strongly united and all of them fear to harm any other devotee because their common God will punish them for the sin. A Christian will fear deeply to harm another Christian but will not care so much to harm a follower of other religion. The reason is that in harming another Christian, he is sure of the punishment from Jesus. But when he harms a person of other religion, he does not fear so much since he has no faith in that form of God of other religion. He believes only Jesus as the only absolute God.

Bin Laden tried to kill Christians and Hindus in America because he believes in Allah only as the God. For this basic reason only he never attempted to kill people in any Muslim country. I am not referring to anyone particularly.

This is a common disease of all the ignorant people present in any religion. Suppose Laden believed in the Universal Spirituality and realized that Jesus and Krishna are also other forms of the same Allah, will he do such crime to the people of other religions? This question applies not only to Laden but also applies to all fanatic Ladens present in all religions.

The blind fanatic conservative rigidity – of one’s own religion isLeading to communal wars – destroying the peace of society.Common sense and simple analysis – are sufficient to know truth.Every religious fan says that – his God created this earth.Unfortunately there is only – one earth and not many earths.Religions are many with different Gods, - but, sorry, one earth only!This clearly means that there is – only one God, names differ.Then, one God should preach – one syllabus only to the earth.Languages may be different, – but subject is one and the same.

God is impartial Father of all souls – existing on this one earth.If you say that Krishna alone is God, – Gita alone is the path, Those who followed Krishna only – are liberated, others to hell,We fully agree, but one small doubt, - when Krishna came here,India was disconnected with – other foreign countries for some time.During that time, foreigners, - who died ignorant of KrishnaWent to hell and fault was not in them – they did not know KrishnaDue to fault of Krishna only, - if Krishna wished, all countries Could have been linked on His – arrival to India simultaneously.

Having known Krishna, – if the foreigners did not follow Him, Their hell is justified, – now Krishna becomes partial to India.God is always impartial, – entire earth is His creation only.All the souls on the earth – are issues of the same divine Father.Partiality is not justified, - if you say India alone has good devotees.It is also not true because – Kauravas opposed Him vehemently.The only solution is that God came – to all countries simultaneouslyIn different names and preached – the same syllabus simultaneously.This logic applies to all religions, – When Jesus came to Jerusalem,India was disconnected for some time, – in that time some IndiansWent to hell for not following Jesus, - it was not their fault at all,Jesus need not be partial to Jerusalem – containing good devoteesOnly, since He was crucified by – the worst priests in Jerusalem.The solution is that same God came – to India and Jerusalem.Krishna and Jesus were names – of same God in different tongues.

You got the reason why we can't stick our hands into solid objects wrong. It isn't atomic bonds. By that logic, every time I stick my hand into a bowel of water, I should be generating 366 kJ/mol.

So no.

Even the primordial energy is a form of work only

Even the primordial energy is a form of work only and its experience as inert energy is illusion, but, this illusion is restricted to the absolute plane.

We have proved that the matter is also a form of work and its experience as matter is illusion. Similarly, the inert energy, which is in the primary causal form as primordial energy is also a form of work only and its experience as energy is also illusion. But this illusion cannot be taken to be in the relative world, which is the experience of the human beings. Only in the absolute plane, which means the view of God, this primordial energy is treated as a form of work and an illusion. Here you must differentiate the case of matter from the case of primordial energy.

In the case of matter, the illusion of the experience of solid state is due to the work of primordial energy. Thus, the worker is known in the case of matter in the relative plane itself. But if you take the case of primordial energy, it is realized as work but the worker is not realized in the relative plane because the primordial energy itself is the ultimate worker in the relative world. Hence, the worker of primordial energy can be only realized in the absolute plane and never in the relative plane. Hence, you cannot completely declare the primordial energy as an illusion since the worker of primordial energy is never realized in the relative plane. The worker of the primordial energy being realized as work is God Himself and since God cannot be realized in the relative plane, you cannot cross the illusion of primordial energy. Only God can cross this ultimate illusion of the primordial energy or Mula prakruti or Mula maya.

Even the illusion created by primordial energy in the case of the experience of solid state of matter, could not be experienced, even though it is realized by science. As said above, even though science proves that the closely packed atoms in the solid state of matter contain very large vacuum, the penetration of finger is resisted by the opposing force created by the revolution of sub atomic particles in the matter. This experience of resistance to the finger is misunderstood as the solid state by illusion. Therefore, in the relative plane itself, you have realized the worker of resistance as the primordial energy but you are unable to overcome the illusion and you are feeling a different experience of solid state. When you are unable to overcome the illusion created by a known worker like primordial energy, how can you over come the illusion created in the case of primordial energy, in which the worker being the unimaginable God is never realized?

1. Phase of Reality (Paramarthadasa):- In this phase the absolute reality and the relative reality are mentioned. God is the absolute reality and the cosmic energy is the relative reality, which is produced from God in the beginning of this creation.

The cosmic energy includes the vacuum also and vacuum is the original form of energy, which is very much invisible. The vacuum generating galaxies supports this point. The special theory of relativity also supports this point, which says that the space or vacuum bends along the boundaries of an object.

2. Phase of Relativity (Vyavaharadasa):-In this phase the cosmic energy, which is acting as relative reality in the first phase appears as the absolute reality. The relative reality is matter, which is generated from energy and is treated as a form of energy. In this phase the cosmic energy should be treated as the absolute reality, which never becomes relative reality as long as this phase continues. It becomes relative reality only when this second phase disappears and first phase appears.

When you put your finger on a solid occupying some space, which consists of millions of atoms packed together, your finger does not penetrate the solid. You feel that your finger is obstructed by the continuous phase of solid matter. This impression is only an illusion and the reality is quite different. Each atom is consisting of a large quantity of space called Atomic Space. All the subatomic particles put together constitute a very negligible portion of the atomic space. Therefore, your finger is touching a large quantity of space only and the solid matter viz the subatomic particles is only of very very little only. Even the inter atomic distance is also space only.

In such case your finger should penetrate easily into the solid. But your finger is restricted by the field of kinetic energy of subatomic particles and also the interatomic bonds which are only bond energies. Therefore your finger is not obstructed by the solid state viz the subatomic particles and instead your finger is restricted by the repulsion of their energy only.

Inspite of the real interaction of energy, you are misunderstanding the reality of solid state. Therefore matter becomes an illusive form of energy like a false serpent appearing on the real rope in dim light. If you take the minute subatomic particle, electron, it is now considered that the electron is consisting of sub particles called as quarks. Tomorrow the quark may be found out consisting of barks and day after tomorrow the bark may be found of consisting of darks and so on… This adinfinitum leads to the disappearance of very nature of particle. Even the electron is considered to have dual nature of matter & energy. Even the theory of particle nature is standing finally on the fundamental unit of energy, a quantum. Therefore, the nature of particles is slowly ending in the nature of energy only and you have to treat the quanta of energy as particles. Your finger is penetrating in liquid & gas states of matter because the inter atomic distances are long and the binding energies are weak to restrict your finger in penetration.

If you take the energy, its inherent nature is kinetic only because the energy is expressed as the multiples of frequency. Frequency is a kinetic parameter. The kinetic energy is always dynamic in nature. Even the potential energy is the energy associated with a static particle and the potential energy does not mean that the energy is static. The essence of all these gives the final information that the energy means the property of dynamism only.

Dynamism cannot be independent. When you see that something is dynamic, you are referring to a static substratum, which is dynamic. When you have arrived to a conclusion that the entire creation is only energy, it means that the entire creation is only the property of dynamism. This means that the entire creation cannot be an independent item since the dynamism requires its associated substratum.

Therefore this entire creation, which appears as matter, work, vacuum etc... is a continuous ocean of the single phase – energy. In such case, the cosmic energy or the creation cannot exist independently and requires the existence of its possessor or substratum. When a person is walking, the walk or dynamism cannot exist independently without its associated walker. The walk is generated by the walker.

Similarly all this creation or cosmic energy is generated by its possessor or substratum. Such substratum should be named by some word and the word chosen is God. You cannot say that God should be the particle because the dynamism is always associated with a particle only. This conclusion leads to a serious problem. In case you treat God as particle, the God should also be the energy in essence since the nature of the particle finally ends in energy. In such case, God should be essentially energy and there is no meaning in saying that the God is generator of energy. The generator of energy itself cannot be energy. The generator of energy should be totally different and should not be energy again. If you conclude that God is not energy, God is also not space because space is essentially energy. This means that God is beyond the concept of energy or space. The conclusion of this logic is that your intelligence cannot imagine God, who is beyond the dimensions of space. Your intelligence can imagine anything which has the dimensions of space only.

When your hand is revolving, each revolution is kinetic energy only. The potential energy associated with the hand may be converted into kinetic energy for some time. When the potential energy is exhausted, the fat associated with the hand may dissolve supplying the kinetic energy. This is conversion of matter into energy. When the fat disappears, your hand stops because there is no provision of conversion of any small portion of matter of the hand into energy. If some provision is made to convert the hand into energy, the revolutions continue till all the hand is converted into energy. At this stage, since the hand totally disappears, there is no revolution because the energy needs association of some matter as its possessor.

You need not argue that the electromagnetic radiation traveling in space is independent entity without possessor. The electromagnetic radiation appearing as independent entity is having its unimaginable possessor called as God.

The electron is revolving in its orbit and each revolution is an expenditure of some small kinetic energy. People say that since this kinetic energy is very much lesser than the fundamental unit of energy, electron is not losing energy and is not collapsing in the nucleus in long run. They say that the orbit is static. This argument appears in the following way.

Suppose somebody is selling 10 fruits for 1 paisa ( 1 cent). You are taking only one fruit and you may say that since you cannot pay 0.1 paisa(0.1 cent), the fruit is taken free of cost. In this way, you take each fruit and put in your bag. The seller has to agree with your argument since the paisa cannot be divided into fractions. But after taking 10 fruits, the seller will demand you to pay 1paisa!

Hence you must conclude this point in two ways. The first way is that the energy needed for each revolution of electron is supplied from cosmic energy, since neither the potential energy associated with electron nor any portion of the particle nature of electron is converted into kinetic energy.

The second way is to treat this point beyond logic of measurement of such infinitesimally small kinetic energy compared to the fundamental unit of kinetic energy that can be measured by the human being. This second point is covered under the topic of Hiaasen berg’s uncertainty principle, but even this point needs the requirement of first point because the accumulation of several revolutions can become equal to the measurable fundamental unit of energy.

The final solution for this is to accept the unimaginable power of the absolute unimaginable God through this event, which can be called as miracle that indicates the existence of unimaginable God. You should not apply the tautology, which is the logic of the relative items to the ultimate absolute unimaginable God.

can't stick our hands into solid objects wrong. It isn't atomic bonds. By that logic, every time I stick my hand into a bowel of water, I should be generating 366 kJ/mol.

So no.

Matter is an illusion created by the work of resistance of force in atomsMatter is a form of work like the awareness

(If you say that even the matter is an illusion created by the work of resistance of force in atoms, it is negated, due to experience of entity).

In atoms lot of space exists as per science. In fact, the solid matter consisting of packed atoms is only full of vacuum and hence the experience of solid state of matter should be the experience of the vacuum only. But the experience of solid state is quite different. When you put the finger, actually the finger should penetrate in to the solid state due to lot of vacuum existing in the closely packed atoms. But the finger does not penetrate into the solid state, which is quite opposite experience. The reason for the non penetration of finger is not due to absence of vacuum in the atoms.

The highly revolving subatomic particles in the atoms create resistance-force, which does not allow the finger to penetrate in to the vacuum. Due to this an illusion is created to the observer, so that the observer thinks that there is no vacuum at all in the solid state. Hence, the solid state of matter is the effect of the work of resistance only. Now, this concludes that even the matter is a form of work like the awareness. In such case the matter should not be an entity or working element like the awareness. All this is the argument of opposition to establish awareness also as an entity like matter or to establish matter also as work or non entity like awareness.

The answer for this opposing argument is given like this: Even though the solid matter is the form of work of force or inert energy like the awareness, the result of the illusion created by such work is ending in experiencing the matter as an entity. Such experience of entity is not the result in the case of awareness even though awareness is also a form of work like solid matter. Hence, due to the difference between the experience of awareness and solid matter in the end, you cannot treat awareness as an entity like solid matter. Hence, the opposition is negated.

Even the primordial energy is a form of work only and its experience as inert energy is illusion, but, this illusion is restricted to the absolute plane.

Not only am I not a physicist, but I don't even play one on TV. However, this statement makes no sense to me whatsoever. Am I missing something?

The inert energy limited to the body is called as Aatman. Even the body or matter is basically inert energy and hence there is no discontinuity of the inert energy. Even the space is inert energy. In this way the homogeneous Brahman is the result. This greatest inert energy can be called as Brahman or Mula prakruti. Since, the body cannot limit the inert energy in basic sense, Aatman is simultaneously Brahman. This entire creation is generated from this mula prakruti, which is called as Brahman (Kaarya Brahman).

Even this mula prakruti or inert energy is dynamic and is also work. But this absolute concept is in the view of God only. In the relative view of the souls, this inert energy or matter is entity that does work.

Even this mula prakruti is just work of God in the view of the God, which is the absolute reality. But in the view of souls, only relative reality becomes absolute and hence for souls the same inert energy acts as an entity doing the work.

The awareness is a verb in the relative reality or the view of the souls

The awareness is a verb in the relative reality or the view of the souls. Hence, there is no use of dragging down the view of absolute reality to save chit.

There is no need of bringing the absolute reality in to the present discussion because chit is proved as a verbal noun or verb in the relative reality itself, where the inert energy is the noun or entity or doer. There is no use of converting the inert energy into work in the view of God, because there is no necessity for such effort. Already in the relative reality itself, chit is proved to be a verb or verbal noun and not actual noun.

can't stick our hands into solid objects wrong. It isn't atomic bonds. By that logic, every time I stick my hand into a bowel of water, I should be generating 366 kJ/mol.

So no.

Matter is an illusion created by the work of resistance of force in atomsMatter is a form of work like the awareness

(If you say that even the matter is an illusion created by the work of resistance of force in atoms, it is negated, due to experience of entity).

In atoms lot of space exists as per science. In fact, the solid matter consisting of packed atoms is only full of vacuum and hence the experience of solid state of matter should be the experience of the vacuum only. But the experience of solid state is quite different. When you put the finger, actually the finger should penetrate in to the solid state due to lot of vacuum existing in the closely packed atoms. But the finger does not penetrate into the solid state, which is quite opposite experience. The reason for the non penetration of finger is not due to absence of vacuum in the atoms.

The highly revolving subatomic particles in the atoms create resistance-force, which does not allow the finger to penetrate in to the vacuum. Due to this an illusion is created to the observer, so that the observer thinks that there is no vacuum at all in the solid state. Hence, the solid state of matter is the effect of the work of resistance only. Now, this concludes that even the matter is a form of work like the awareness. In such case the matter should not be an entity or working element like the awareness. All this is the argument of opposition to establish awareness also as an entity like matter or to establish matter also as work or non entity like awareness.

The answer for this opposing argument is given like this: Even though the solid matter is the form of work of force or inert energy like the awareness, the result of the illusion created by such work is ending in experiencing the matter as an entity. Such experience of entity is not the result in the case of awareness even though awareness is also a form of work like solid matter. Hence, due to the difference between the experience of awareness and solid matter in the end, you cannot treat awareness as an entity like solid matter. Hence, the opposition is negated.

You do realize that when you don't understand the words you are using, attempting to lecture others on physical mechanics is absurd, right?

Basic theme of this is that, God is in the absolute plane for Him this creation is an illusion hence He can do miracles like passing through a closed doors (Jesus passed through the door to appear to the disciples after His crucification).

For human beings the thoughts are illusion. The feelings like they are so and so to me, she is my wife, he is my husband, this is my property all are illusion to ourselves and can be realised by the soul. But matter and energy are not illusion for us. For God everything including matter and energy are illusion. FOr us the feeling or thought is illusion, this can be realised in practice...

There are two types of works. One is objectless work (Akarmakakriyaa) and the other is work with object (Sakarmakakriyaa). Rama killed Ravana. In this statement the verb is with object. The verb is the work of killing and the object is Ravana. Rama walks. In this statement the verb is the work of walking, which has no object. Now in the absolute plane, even the primordial energy, which is the ultimate cause of the creation, is proved to be a form of work only.

Hence, the entire creation, which is only the different modified forms of primordial energy, becomes work only. Now, this work of creation has no object because the entire creation consisting of all objects has become work. There is no object or entity leftover, which is not work. But remember, this state is the absolute plane and not the relative plane in which we are experiencing certain forms of work as objects and certain other forms of work as work only. Therefore, in the absolute plane, no object is leftover and hence the entire creation becomes the work without object. When we say that somebody is dancing, the work of dancing is without object. Therefore, this entire creation is stated to be the dance of God Shiva.

You do realize that when you don't understand the words you are using, attempting to lecture others on physical mechanics is absurd, right?

Why i have introduced these concepts here is it to make you understand that our feelings or bonds with other human beings and relatives and other things in this world is an illusion even though they as human beings are real since they are made up of matter and energy. But our relationships are illusion, our real bond is with our real parent who is God.

Mula Maya, Maha Maya and Maya

The world is a composite of

1) Primary energy (Mula Maya),

2) Matter, awareness and different forms of energy like light, heat etc. (Maha Maya) and

3) The forms of matter and feelings of awareness (Maya).

For the soul only Maya is unreal because soul being awareness is in the higher plane. The soul is a part of Maha Maya. Maya is like the drama which is restricted to the roles and dialogues including actions (feelings). The actors, dresses, lights and stage constitute Maha Maya which remains even after the drama. Even if these items of Maha Maya are removed, the ground remains eternal which is like the Mula Maya. Therefore, with reference to the soul, only the drama is unreal.

The Unreal world for the soul is restricted to the Maya only. If you define the world as Maha Maya and Mula Maya, it is real for the soul. If you define the world as Maya, Maha Maya and Mula Maya put together, it is mixture of reality and unreality and hence can neither be stated as real nor unreal (Mithya of Shankara). If you restrict the world to Maya only, it is nothing (Shunyam of Buddhists and Asat of Gaudapada). If you restrict the world to Maha Maya and Mula Maya, it is real (Sat of Ramanuja and Madhva). Therefore, with reference to the soul the world can be real or unreal or a mixture of both according to the limitations of the restricted part of the creation.

If the reference is changed from soul to God, the entire creation is unreal because there is nothing other than God. But to prove the reality of the entertainment of God, the world has to be real for God also and this requires the separate existence of the world. A negligible part of God might have been modified into the world so that both the concepts can be simultaneously maintained. A negligible quantity can be treated almost nil.

Such modification can be treated as real (Parinama) or apparent (Vivarta). It is immaterial because the modified part is very much negligible. But in any case, the knowledge of the nature of God becomes essential. All this can be accepted if you place the primary energy in the place of God. But the primary energy is only the first creation of God. Therefore, all this analysis ends with only the first item of the creation (Primary energy). The link between God and Primary energy is unimaginable since God Himself is unimaginable. This is the analysis that can be done with the help of scriptures, science and logic and experience of liberated souls. We can combine these two concepts and arrive at Primary energy charged by unimaginable God as the starting point to avoid defects from both sides. Now the problem is solved.

Already in the relative reality itself, chit is proved to be a verb or verbal noun and not actual noun.

Oh, I'm starting to get it now. This all has to do with the verbal nouns. I had completely forgotten about verbal nouns. Cool!

Veda says that God wished to create this world. Hence, people say that God is awareness due to wish. Here wish is a verb and not noun. This means that the awareness, which is wish, means a work only and not a working element. Already we have established that awareness is a special work of inert energy functioning in the special system called as nervous system.

Therefore, the soul is the name of some special work only done by inert energy in the nervous system similar to grinding work done by current in grinding machine. Hence, the word soul is only a verb and not a noun, if you analyze deeply on scientific and logical line.

Some say that bliss is God. But bliss is intensive and continuous happiness only and thus it means the verb. If you say that one is happy, the happiness appears as noun, but it is only a verb on analysis. Veda says that such happiness is the bliss of God (Brahmana Anandah). If you say that this is the house of the king, it does not mean that the house is king.

Awareness and bliss are verbal nouns and not genuine nouns

The word chit or awareness is a noun created from verb and not actual noun. A man is noun. Walking is verb. Walk is verbal noun, indicating the verb or work only and not any entity that does the work.

The root word of chit is a verb having two meanings. One is the process of knowing and the other is the process of remembering. Hence, chit or knowledge (Jnanam) is not an independent entity that does work like a man. Similarly, bliss is a noun created from the verb indicating the process of being happy and is not an independent entity to do the work.

Inert energy is called as soul or Aatman that pervades all over the bodyThe verbs are ‘knowing’ and ‘happy’. The actual noun or entity doing the work is Aatman, which is inert energy that pervades.

You are knowing. You are happy. These two verbs give the verbal nouns, which are chit (Jnanam) and bliss (Ananda). The actual noun that does these works is human body, which is inert energy in the form of inert matter. This inert energy is called as soul or Aatman that pervades all over the body. Since awareness is also a special work of inert energy only, the inert energy pervades all the systems of the body including nervous system. All the other systems of the body are pervaded by the inert energy itself directly.