Originally posted by David McKinney Do you need other placings for those, too?I could help with some

David, do you have Microsoft Excel? If so, I'll mail you an Excel sheet with what I have, to avoid duplication, and for your enjoyment (it contains quite a bit of extra info).

On second thoughts, please post what you have, if it isn't too much work - it'll be interesting to see what other sources yield, since some of mine are a bit suspect. I can mail you the Excel sheet anyway.

A few points: Bob Sall may very well have driven in 35 races in 1933, there were certainly more championship rounds than that - I have dates for 56 races in 1933, and I don't think my list is complete! The Hankinson circuit was BIG in those days: I have four races for Labour Day and five races for Oct 7 alone...

About Brunmier (I believe that's the correct spelling), these year-end tabulations were sometimes a bit quirky, in that they were mostly ordered by competition numbers for the following year, which then often ignored deceased and retired drivers, as well as numbers 11, 13, 20 and so on. Brunmier retired very publically after marrying on the Ascot homestraight, so by the common logic he would have no use for a number in 1933, hence his omission from the point standings.

The annual preview of the big car racing in the Mid-West 1935 was very superficial and contains no list of point scorers, stating that big car races were "few and far between". Babe Stapp was stated as the champion.

Yes, the Midwestern Circuit was always the poor relation of its two brethren, but ironically 50 years later it was all that was left for USAC! In the thirties, there were typically about one to two dozen races in the Midwest compared to ca. 40 to 50 high-$$$ events on the "left" coast and usually more than 60 races in the East. By the end of the fifties, USAC's presence west of the Rockies was zilch, and the Eastern Circuit had lost more than 90% of its races to rival sanctioning bodies, stock car racing and... television!

Looking at this list, ARA is definitely the group that became NARC and competed in Northern/Central California. I can't explain Buxton, the one glaring difference from the Northern California drivers (oh, and the year as well).

The WARA is Washington state.

WRA did not became CRA. CRA was a separate entity that ran roadsters and eventually allowed Sprint Cars in with them and then finally switched over to Sprint Car bodywork around 1957. As I understand it, J.C. Agajanian folded the WRA to allow for AAA sanctioning c. 1950.

Jim, I am aware that the CRA was a seperate organisation, it's just that I read somewhere that WRA collpased in 1953 and 1954 was the first of the four "change-over" years from roadsters to sprinters for CRA, so I thought of it as a de facto continuation of a line... never mind, just scratch it!

Now you're telling me WRA merged with ARA after Aggie left? Hm, that would be news to me but I suppose it's possible. OTOH I wouldn't be surprised if the 1950 West Coast Annual had an item on the launch of a "new" WRA... Also, I have a note about the famous Midget organisation URA presenting Sprint Car races in 1952 and '53!?

Am I interested in the 1949 West Coast Annual? Was Bill France a stock car fan?

Jim, I am aware that the CRA was a seperate organisation, it's just that I read somewhere that WRA collpased in 1953 and 1954 was the first of the four "change-over" years from roadsters to sprinters for CRA, so I thought of it as a de facto continuation of a line... never mind, just scratch it!

I understand completely Michael and can see how and why you thought that. Despite our seeming miscommunications, this one I get I had thought the WRA collapsed c. 1950 or 1951.

Now you're telling me WRA merged with ARA after Aggie left? Hm, that would be news to me but I suppose it's possible. OTOH I wouldn't be surprised if the 1950 West Coast Annual had an item on the launch of a "new" WRA... Also, I have a note about the famous Midget organisation URA presenting Sprint Car races in 1952 and '53!?

Am I interested in the 1949 West Coast Annual? Was Bill France a stock car fan?

It is and was, at least according to the Annual. I do not have anything on URA Sprints.

As far as wondering if you would be interested...yes, that was a rather silly question, wasn't it?

Found a bit of info in the short profiles of inductees to the Sprint Car Hall of Fame, a few of which are excellently researched and written by people like Donald Davidson or Don Radbruch, others are drivel coming straight from dodgy sources like John Lucero's Legion Ascot book, but anyway:

Here's an example of the scope of these championships, and even if the list is probably not complete, the number of races is quite typical for the entire period of the thirties. You can see that the National Championship was but a VERY SMALL part of the US racing scene in those years!

!!!The data is not only incomplete, but also quite suspect in a number of cases, especially entrant and car info!!!

Do you have access to the New York Times archive? I have found the free access to their pre-1923 stuff quite helpful, and there're certainly a lot of "nuggets" still hidden in the later issues, but I can't figure out a way of getting access without actually subscribing or paying through your nose - I think an article like that would be around four bucks?

Uhh, the headaches... Now I have three different distances for the feature race: five, ten or twenty miles??? And judging from the published time for the event, it may as well have been 12½...

Also, a few names misspelled: I think it's Bill Neopolitan, Firman Lawshe, Harris Insinger, Bill Hoffman and Lloyd Broshart. Furthermore, I have no Leslie Johnson in my database (apart from the Englishman of ERA "fame"), and I wonder if it's not indeed Wes Johnson. Finally, I would think the feature race would have been the last ten-mile race listed, the "Bicentennial Handicap", not the one won by Broshart - that must've been the "consi", which would also explain the slow time.

All in all, pretty much the standard of motor racing coverage back then...

My New York Times stuff comes from the big index volumes found in various libraries. Automobile racing is one category, deaths (sadly) in automobile racing is another. Then it's the old microfilm machine and printer. So the article, mistakes and all, is what was printed those many years ago. And beyond travel time, parking costs and other stuff the item cost 15 cents. Manageable.

Thanks, and it does come as no surprise! In fact, several of the Californian meets are questionable (AAA or not), and some may have been "Class B" events. I will post the 1934 races soon, which is probably the best year for completeness of information; after that it tapers off rather quickly FYI, I don't think I have any races at Goshen, CA - just NY!

Union Speedway in Union, NJ is one of the few "weekly" tracks that were part of a AAA Championship circuit, the only others I can think of being Woodbridge Speedway, just ten miles to the south, and Legion Ascot Speedway on the other side of the continent.

Through lucky circumstance did I have access to almost full results for most of the 1939 races at Union Speedway, the track running every Tuesday May through August, and then Sundays in September and October. Of the 26 possible dates, only five were rained out, so we are looking at a total of 21 races.

Most features ran over 15 miles, with a couple of 25-milers and a 30-miler thrown in for good measure. Heats were usually over ten laps of the half-mile circuit. Name drivers did not show up very often, and the regulars were all locals, but of those Bill Holland would go on to have quite a career - this was only his second year of AAA competition. Johnny Ulesky, however, wound up winning the track championship for the second time, after 1937.

The figures don't add up correctly because I'm missing some info from a handful of races, but it's a good overview nonetheless:

A last post before I let this one die for lack of interest, here's a list of championship winning engines, i.e. engines used (mostly) by the champion driver. It's interesting to note that it wasn't all Miller and Offenhauser, as one is led to believe all too often; there was quite a lot of variety, especially in the thirties!

!!!Again, caution is to be exercised as to the correctness of the info - it's just as good as my research has been so far!!!!

Yes, it's rare to find, also for me!;) That's why I posted what I have, in the hope that somebody might be able to fill in some data. It worked with the Championship Top Tens, but not with the race results, and therefore I have stopped.

Originally posted by fines Yes, it's rare to find, also for me!;) That's why I posted what I have, in the hope that somebody might be able to fill in some data. It worked with the Championship Top Tens, but not with the race results, and therefore I have stopped.

Don't stop Michael, how about this?...

Bakersfield, CA January 3, 1932

Ernie Triplett won, as per your data, but he was followed by Babe Stapp in second and Bill Cummings finished third. Gus Shrader (sic) crashed. Lou Meyer was fast qualifier with a new record of 36.64 (the previous record was 37.63).

Also, I'm beginning to get a grip on the scoring systems in use, although there's much confusion! To start with, apparently each region had its own scoring, with the followng scores for wins in a 100 mile race: