I seems beyond belief that Yu and Yin themselves did not know that they were entered improperly. They can read the ISU rules, they can count to thirteen.

THREE teams were entered when only two should have been. How should Yu and Jin have known that THEY were the illegal team at the event? For that matter, does anyone really think that teenage pairs skaters spend time reading the ISU rules on eligibility for the Junior World Championships? Do we even know that Yu and Jin can read English?

I agree that the Chinese Federation bears responsibility for the improper entry, but I find it find it beyond belief that this particular pairs team knowingly participated in the deception. They were told that they were going to Europe to compete in the Junior Worlds. They went. They competed. And then they became non-persons, like Soviet politicians who fell out of favor with the Communist Party.

THREE teams were entered when only two should have been. How should Yu and Jin have known that THEY were the illegal team at the event?

I bet all six of the skaters knew that only two teams were supposed to go. Athletes know the rules of the competitions they try to qualify for, even young ones. The head of the Chinese federation knew and had known for a year that only two teams could go. The vice president of the Chinese federation had known for more than a year that only two teams could go. The Secretary of the Chinese federation, the Team Leader that accompanied the athletes, the Chinese judges, the coaches of the three teams. Do you think that Yau Bin does not know the rules? How could anyone intimately involved in the sport not know this, when the goal every year is to try their hardest to place as many teams as possible, when they are eleted when they place three and dejected (a year before) because they only placed two.

Heck, even I know the rules, and I have nothing at all at stake in the matter.

For that matter, does anyone really think that teenage pairs skaters spend time reading the ISU rules on eligibility for the Junior World Championships?

Yes, if they are candidates for junior worlds they most certainly do. Wouldn't you, if this were your dream? They are not stupid. It would be a shame if they were to start pretending to be stupid now.

I agree that the Chinese Federation bears responsibility for the improper entry, but I find it find it beyond belief that this particular pairs team knowingly participated in the deception. They were told that they were going to Europe to compete in the Junior Worlds. They went. They competed. And then they became non-persons, like Soviet politicians who fell out of favor with the Communist Party.

It is true that they did not have any choice but to go when they were ordered to. But by the same token they cannot pretend to be disappointed when the ruse perpetrated by their elders failed.

Anyway, no one blames the athletes and no one is punishing them. They got a free trip around the world out of it, they got to skate at a prestigious event -- the only thing they suffered was an asterisk by their name in the record book. They'll be back next year.

I am glad that the results have been revised and that the ISU acknowledged their faults. However, the Estonian team can never be compensated for this mistake. They should have qualified, and it can never be changed.

I think it's correct to remove the third Chinese team's record. They shouldn't be here, therefore, they cannot ask for anything more. I know if another Chinese pairs team placed lower than they did, another team would be removed, not them. But that's the least we can do because we know that China would send the top two teams to the JW. It's a little unfair to the being removed team, but there isn't anything totally fair.

On the other hand, what will ISU do with the person or persons who caused this error?

I bet all six of the skaters knew that only two teams were supposed to go. Athletes know the rules of the competitions they try to qualify for, even young ones. . Do you think that Yau Bin does not know the rules?

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This is why you're a mathematician who lives in Ivory tower. To expect these non-English speaking kids knowor care the details of those ever-changing rules is just ridiculous. Many hardcore fans on this board are living in a fantasy world. They chase every detail of obscure rules and CoP, and they believe all the coaches, skaters are just as obssessive as them. But this is just a fantasy. I read somewhere a young Chinese pairs skater has never seen the videos of Shen/Zhao's past performances. Yao could not even his young pair skater's name. Robin Wagner got the tips on the new rules of jump downgrades from some fans at her rink, and she got ridiculed by some fans on this board.

The truth is ISU is changing rules all the time. I doubt many coaches or skaters have the time to study anything irrelavant to them.

In China, there is no qualifying competitions. The coaches and perhaps leaders of the skating federation decide who should be sent to an international event.

I Heck, even I know the rules, and I have nothing at all at stake in the matter.

Yes, if they are candidates for junior worlds they most certainly do. Wouldn't you, if this were your dream? They are not stupid. It would be a shame if they were to start pretending to be stupid now.

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You're contradicting yourself here. If Jr. pairs competiton is really that important, why the other skating federations did not figure out the illegal entries in the first place and stopped it from happening? I mean, they have more at stake than a couple of fans on goldenskate, i assume. So why? Were they also bought by the Chinese federation?

US officials noticed right away, but assumed the ISU would take care of it and bar the #3 team from competing. Other federations must have been aware of it too. According to "Eislauffen" (who writes competition reports for the ISU web page), the media were well aware of it as well, and wondered why nothing was done about it.

In my cynical opinion, the ISU allowed the third team to compete because they're going out of their way to kowtow to the Asian federations, who've been hosting many of the events. The ISU just didn't expect the outcry after the fact.

To expect these non-English speaking kids know or care the details of those ever-changing rules is just ridiculous....Yao could not even his young pair skater's name... I doubt many coaches or skaters have the time to study anything irrelavant to them.