1) Cave:Nix: Cave is not in use as much as it could be. We have to get ready to start charging £7.50/hour so Cave in general needs improving. What do we need to do before we can raise prices?Door in back right hand corner for storage space? Clear out old stuff?Service/repair all the equipment.

<Giovanna Enters>

Mike: Soundproofing.Sam: People could surrender ID to get Cave Key and get it back on return of key and money.<Nix gives 10 minute overview of how Cave booking works>Nix: Membership cards on hold due to impracticality, not knowing who is an active user etcEmma: How about we combine the ideas and make new cards when people turn up for the first time if they want to be regular users.Mike: Too much hassle for kitchen staff?Nix: Cave bookings online is too much hassle, not everyone has easy internet access and paper booking sheet is easier to administrate.Mike: Have the sheet in the kitchen? Perhaps we can ask the cafe crew how they feel about this?

2) Cafe soundsystem:Nix: Shane removed EQ and this fixed buzz on speaker. EQ now moving to cave.Mike: Don’t really need EQ as we have a 4-band on the new desk which is probably adequate for our needsMike: Jukebox is much louder in red room than cafe.AP: Nix to fit variable resistor to signal chain to control volume in red room.

3) Sound team:Nix: As of 14th April, I will no longer be Forest Artist Facilities Manager and would like to propose that Sam takes over Sound Team Co-ordination<Proposal of above> No stand-asides, no blocks. Consensus reached.Mike: What does post actually entail?Nix: Making sure there is an engineer for every gig, training and potentially holding a weekly sound team meeting.Mike: Being contactable is very important.Nix: I have spare phone which can be donated as AFM phone.AP: Nix to donate phone when possible.4) Dark room update:Nix: Martin is still answering emails and inducting people into using the darkroom. It is now compatible with fire system stuff. He is not official bottom liner as he can’t attend any AFWG meetings but he is still responsible person.

5) Screen printing update:Nix: Stephen is bottom liner for SP. He is rebuilding stud wall around boiler in order to make room legal to use as per fire dept instructions. Today he should have installed the vacuum screen press.Estimates room will be fully functional within 2 weeks.

6) Studios update:Nix: Simone is bottom liner for balconies. Studios are fully used up.Mike: Are we actually getting any money from the studios? 6 Studios at £20/month should be £120/month income. Where is it? Simone needs to chase up artists?Nix: The bikes still need sorting.AP: Nix will keeping bikes in the space complete. Intends to get Forest Bikes and Bike Generator workshop away from balconies ASAP. Working on finding alternative space.

7) Smoke machine:Sam: Smoke machines are evil. They are poison, fog juice contains glycols which are petroleum based poison. We don’t allow people to smoke in here because it violates people's right to clean air. Same should apply to smoke machines. I will not participate in any event with smoke machine.Nix: Should we sell smoke machine?Sam: We should have a no smoke machine policy full stop.Mike: Lots of people like it. Surely if it was that dangerous it would be banned?Emma: Smoking cigarettes is dangerous, that’s not banned.Sam: They have warning labels on for asthmatics. I’ve only seen it in use once or twice.Nix: It doesn’t get used much but is worth a bit of money.Emma: <Proposal> Sell it. No stand-asides, no blocks. Accepted.AP: Nix to sell smoke machine.

8) Projector:Nix: It appears projector is overheating and malfunctioning. Ryan attempted fix. Still fucked.Mike: It’s been doing this on and off for months, with increasing frequency.Nix: I will come in and squirt it with compressed air and possibly install spare one tomorrow (03/04) and see if it is suitable for the space.

9) Tools Workshop:Emma: How does it work? Do you have to sign a book? Is it limited to Forest projects?Nix: Due to added scrutiny from Health & Safety, from now on you have to be trained and supervised to use tools. In my time here, five people have injured themselves with various powertools.I will try and get a system in place before I leave. Ideally remove workshop key from public domain.Mike: What about darkroom users? People will ask for darkroom key to get to workshop?Sam: What about a locked box for tools?Nix: Good idea, people can then still use simpler tools without hassle.AP: Nix/Sam/Emma: Sort out workshop, recatalogue tools, make locked box etc.

10) Hall:Gio: What are arrangements for cleaning?Nix: <explains>Emma: Heating in hall is too high, always boiling, is it wasteful?

[quote="ChaoticReality"]7) Smoke machine:Sam: Smoke machines are evil. They are poison, fog juice contains glycols which are petroleum based poison. We don’t allow people to smoke in here because it violates people's right to clean air. Same should apply to smoke machines. I will not participate in any event with smoke machine.Nix: Should we sell smoke machine?Sam: We should have a no smoke machine policy full stop.Mike: Lots of people like it. Surely if it was that dangerous it would be banned?Emma: Smoking cigarettes is dangerous, that’s not banned.Sam: They have warning labels on for asthmatics. I’ve only seen it in use once or twice.Nix: It doesn’t get used much but is worth a bit of money.Emma: <Proposal> Sell it. No stand-asides, no blocks. Accepted.AP: Nix to sell smoke machine.

ok, firstly I think you people is crazy and perhaps this should be cleared with cafe&events too, as some people might want it for events.

BUT if not... how much? Maybe I will buy it.

xxx

"We all tend to idealise kindness and tolerance, then wonder why we find ourselves infested with losers and nutcases." Sebastian Horsley

Yes, maybe a controversial decision should be made by a wider group of people. But I hope that they come to the same decision. The pleasure given a smoke machine to a few people is outweighed by the pain it gives to more people. You're not going to walk out of an event because they don't have a smoke machine pumping out smoke.

When lycra and big hair come back into fashion, we can ask for one on freecycle.

if that's what people agree on... Just not quite sure it's in the remit of AF to decide that and there are some events (specifically, freak outs/happenings) where a smoke machine is needed, and selling it would mean it's never available for people to use. However, I don't really know why I'm arguing this because I seriously would maybe like to buy it for my bar.

"We all tend to idealise kindness and tolerance, then wonder why we find ourselves infested with losers and nutcases." Sebastian Horsley

ChaoticReality wrote:2) Cafe soundsystem:Nix: Shane removed EQ and this fixed buzz on speaker. EQ now moving to cave.Mike: Don’t really need EQ as we have a 4-band on the new desk which is probably adequate for our needsMike: Jukebox is much louder in red room than cafe.AP: Nix to fit variable resistor to signal chain to control volume in red room.

aah, that's where it went! the point of having the graphic equaliser in the cafe was to help cut out the feedback frequencies caused by the acoustics of the room, though it's good to hear the buzz is sorted which wasn't escapable whatever one did.

new problems though - robin and i found out earlier this evening that both decks are fucked and the mixer provides a harsh buzz of it's own when used. gah.

7) Smoke machine:Sam: Smoke machines are evil. They are poison, fog juice contains glycols which are petroleum based poison.

...

Sam: They have warning labels on for asthmatics. I’ve only seen it in use once or twice.

a shame, but i'd prefer to have a space that's safe for all to breathe in.

8) Projector:[/b]Nix: It appears projector is overheating and malfunctioning. Ryan attempted fix. Still fucked.Mike: It’s been doing this on and off for months, with increasing frequency.Nix: I will come in and squirt it with compressed air and possibly install spare one tomorrow (03/04) and see if it is suitable for the space.

as of friday it's completely dead. graeme was up on a ladder to poke at it but had no luck. it could just be the fuse, but it does sounds more like it's been on it's way out for a while now.

hey, if you don't like it, post on the BB (so you can ask about participating for better) | MilkMiruku

i dont thing it should be sold . if volunteers object to it when they are working , then it should not be put on . people who want to use it can source volunteers who dont mind working with it on . this is about choice .

also was this agenda point posted before the meeting ? its good practice to post agenda point before the meeting so people have a chance to attend if they feel strongly about it . rather than it just appearing on the night without warning . this was obliviously going to be a contraversal point

martinmckenna wrote:i dont thing it should be sold . if volunteers object to it when they are working , then it should not be put on . people who want to use it can source volunteers who dont mind working with it on . this is about choice .

a good point. on one hand, what about the choice of forest patrons? i.e., an asthmatic that reacts to smoke machine fog who comes to a forest cafe event then has to leave because of their health issue. on the other hand, we're happy to host shit bands and noise events, so that would also cause people to leave. on the other hand, ... oh fuck it, it's too late to think about this..

martinmckenna wrote:also was this agenda point posted before the meeting ? its good practice to post agenda point before the meeting so people have a chance to attend if they feel strongly about it . rather than it just appearing on the night without warning . this was obliviously going to be a controversial point

an aside - this is a good example of why our constitution needs to be revised to include how our working groups run as the posting of agenda points online before the event is only the de facto way of doing things.

naturally, it's allowed if points are first mentioned at the meeting itself because people didn't think of them before or don't use the bb, but then again controversial points are, in the majority of cases, obviously controversial and would thus probably benefit from a wider input of viewpoints so a better synergy of options (such as the proffered 'volly choice' idea) can be considered before a final action point is made.

while i love this kind of thing, i sure as hell don't have time to look at it myself, though that doesn't stop me sayin..

ravanwin wrote:pretty sure it is a cafe and events thing. events likes smoke.

i'd agree - from my perspective, AF deals with anything arty-ish outside the cafe area. thinking about it, a couple of the other points raised, namely "Sound team" and "Projector", also come within the Cafe & Events remit, but the confusion seems to come from the current could-be-a-lot-clearer-and-concise Working Group remits.

from the website;

Cafe & Events Working Group: This group plans and promotes events and film screenings in and outside the cafe. Those wanting to work in events promotions, sound engineering, and poster making are encouraged to attend. This group is also a forum for all aspects of volunteering including general problems with The Forest including fixing, building and maintaining the overall space by repairing equipment, technology and broken things. Volunteer morale and retention, kitchen issues and health and safety are also key issues.

Artist Facilities Working Group: This group meets to welcome newcomers and to maintain and improve The Forest Rehearsal Studio (The Cave) and The Darkroom. This group buys new materials and equipment and repairs damages. It also creates, edits and distributes all Forest Publications, and Forest Records and looks after the swap Library.

The actors equity did a study on broadway actors who are exposed to high levels of smoke machine effect, every night, for their shows. They concluded that at the level at which smoke machines are used in theatres, there is no threat to the health of actors. Clearly, they are exposed to more smoke than we would be on a single night with our non-industrial smoke machine. They also didn't find any acute effects after exposure to the glycols, although in actors who had a prolonged exposure to smoke machines may experience minor inflammation, although no long term effect. This is from the actors equity, who are obviously going to be looking out for the health of the actors.

Acute Effects. No statistically significant acute changes after a performance were detected in vocal cord appearance and function, perceptual voice rating, or pulmonary function regardless of exposure to theatrical effects. The lack of acute change in exposed Actors in vocal cord appearance is consistent with no adverse effect from these exposures or may in part reflect the short-term humectant properties of glycols and mineral oil, which may inhibit acute irritant effects. Additionally, Actors performing on Broadway generally have tremendous vocal capacity, which may allow them to compensate for mild irritation and/or inflammation. Limited changes were observed from the comparison of the computerized voice analysis with peak glycol exposures, which suggests a potential minor impact on voice quality from these exposures.

Chronic Effects. In the analysis of Phase 3 data from the pre-performance examinations, Actors whose performance requires longer exposure to peak levels of glycols had a statistically significant increased rate of certain vocal cord appearance parameters (indicating inflammation of the throat or vocal cords). There was no adverse impact from mineral oil or pyrotechnics use. Rates of other vocal cord abnormalities (such as nodules or polyps) were not increased by exposure to any theatrical effect. There was no negative impact on vocal cord function associated with exposures to glycol, mineral oil, or pyrotechnics. Similar to the analysis of acute effects, minor impacts on vocal quality were associated with peak glycol exposures.

There was no clinically significant adverse impact on pulmonary function due to either acute or chronic use of glycol or pyrotechnics. This is consistent with the findings from the second NIOSH study, where there was no increase in rates of asthma or other pulmonary disorders in Actors in smoke shows compared to non-exposed Actors. It is also consistent with the chemical properties of glycol at the concentrations measured in the theaters, where these compounds can exert irritant effects on mucus membranes, but not on the lower respiratory tract. On the other hand, Actors with the highest exposure to mineral oil had a statistically significant decrease in one pulmonary function parameter – forced vital capacity. This finding was surprising, as decreases in forced vital capacity are usually associated with interstitial lung processes or with interference with taking a deep breath from external pressures, such as pleural thickening or obesity. While an effect was noted, it is important to note that the Actors still have pulmonary function within the normal range. As with glycol exposure, there was no evidence of airway obstruction.

Don't forget if you sell it to sell it to me. Bowery loves smoke.

"We all tend to idealise kindness and tolerance, then wonder why we find ourselves infested with losers and nutcases." Sebastian Horsley

One of the coolest things that has ever happened in the Forest was when the smoke machine was put on for half an hour so the cafe room was filled with smoke, they then turned off all the lights and put on KLF chillout album on full blast and started dancing and hitting pots and pans. This, I believe, was instigated by Alex and for that sir, I salute you. It may have been slightly un-health&safety but it was uber cool and summed up what a crazy and wild place the Forest was.

To my knowledge this has never happened again, and possibly nothing this cool has ever happened again. This means that potentially the Forest reached it's wild peak 2 years ago on a tuesday(?), in the late afternoon. However I believe that the Forest can reach this level of coolness again and without the smoke machine at volunteers disposal a legacy of crazyness and mad bastardness would officially be over, or it might be an extra nail in the coffin at the least.

actually, this was initiated by me/dai/tim. alex was our bourbon biscuit minion for the day and force fed customers horrid tesco value treats from underneath a cloak of sheets. dai painted his penis with day-glo paint and got buff and ran around in the afternoon. I cut tim's hair off standing on a table and cut a polish customers finger with blunt scissors and made him bleed, then gave him a compensatory horse toy from the free shop. we played KLF full volume and played strobes. we yelled a lot and hit things hard. we really, REALLY didn't give a fuck.

as something to consider rather than a critique - i think you should have the smoke machine at the roxy for the fundraiser:

why?

because it is a big space and smoke makes it seem more small and intimate. it helps people dance in a cavernous space and it makes things seem warm. this may not be needed but you might want to deploy it.

maybe not but it is a big scary room that holds 500 people. if there are only 75 in there - it may feel really empty and smoke does help.

Re: lockable box for tools. There is a big lockable metal cabinet in the workshopp room. This was originally intended for locking valuable tools to prevent theft. Sadly, it was never kept locked. I don't know what happened to the keys. I may still have one. I'll have a look for it if the cabinet is suitable for locking up dangerous tools.

so sorry I will miss this one folks, but here is a review of my Action Points at the last meeting and agenda point suggestions:

AP: Nix to fit variable resistor to signal chain to control volume in red room.

this is turning out to be too hard for me to do the electronics bit on my own, but Matt is helping me and I will get it done by the next meeting.

AP: Nix to donate phone when possible.

sam has a phone

AP: Nix will keeping bikes in the space complete. Intends to get Forest Bikes and Bike Generator workshop away from balconies ASAP. Working on finding alternative space.

Still working on alternative space.The Bike generators, are being moved on the 20th of May to go to the Knochengorroch festival. I hope they can go somewhere else after.Forest Bikes Project, that is still being lead by Mattias is still leaving bikes in the way. boo. I have told them.

AP: Nix to sell smoke machine.

I will not be sold. but.. Most (is not all) of the current members of the sound team, will not work if it is in use.