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Raids Challenge and the new classes + complaints

1 - Ost Dunroth Poison Wing - with 2 minis you can out heal the damage of the poison on boss, so dont need swap plataform to complete the challenge. The damage of poison need force you to do that other way have no chalenge. Before was hard for many classes to reach cap mitigations, now that we all have that is easy to keep everyone alive there. No challenge anymore.

2 - Barad Guldur - The Liutennant - part of the challenge is the corruption of the boss, you need choose between: less power, less speed or less heals. The easy way is keep the corruption that give power debuff. The boss is imune to the old skill to steal power, but not to the new one. So you can keep that corruption and have power since you have a lm. No need to steal power from the wight anymore. No challenge.

3 - Helegrod/Skirmish raids - I remember when in the 75 we all got concentrade when a litennant grim come, because he could one shoot the entire raid. I remember when I needed 2 healers on me all time to get the hatchlings from the eggs in Helegrod drake because of the amount of damage. I remember when the wargs of warg pens could one shoot me traited/geared dps on my warden. That was way too much, agreed. But since you changed that, all those runs became a faceroll. Game really need a half way between that. Is is not possible, keep it in hard mode, not like this. I did helegrod drake last week and the fire that the worms put on the ground do 69 damage each 3 sec, so no need to move anymore.

4 - I liked the idea of some quests to be Challenge, but sounds like you guys have no idea what is challenge. Lots of morale and no special abilities means nothing. I like the idea of Monsters or Madness quest, but again, thousands of morale, no special abilities, no challenge. I soloed the tiger and worm on rk, probably can solo the turtle. That was an oportunity to have in the landscape some really nice monsters that would require strategy to kill (like the weapons in FF7), but you just made they be a bored fight. Wanna see a challenge? Give to that turtle the ability of the troll of Ivar wing, while he have the corruption he recouver 5% of morale for each hit, so you need stop dps sometimes, if remove the corruption, spread disease to everyone around with a strong debuff. Give her a really strong atack that need to be interrupted and she use an aoe stun and right after that start the induction, so need use the skill to break stun or have a LM. Make it do really nice damage so you need a LM/burg to debuff and a tank with healer to hold it. Give her the ability to each atack reduce armor of the tank, so tanks need swap position to be alive. So, when crossing by that place you would say: "that turtle is ####ing dangerous" and not "that stupid turtle, let's zerg it".

5 - The twins in Barad Guldur - you used to need 2 tanks to hold the man there, because the yellow eye reset the threat and that was a problem before, but now that the skills to force taunt also give us threat leadership there is no challenge anymore. Just use the skill again and we have aggro again. Similar problem happens with the red eye in The Lost Temple.

6 - When I'm in raid doing Durchest t2c, I used to call names to pot fear, now I say no worries it does nothing. you need to scale all things, not just damage and morale.

7 - Make the side quests hard and allow us to tank (not only force) mobs in the big-battles.

8 - Create some optional quests with really nice challenge and good rewards, like LI scrolls, Relics T9... Allow us to run it 1 time per week, make we use mithril coins to reset it. Why a not quest to go into a cave and kill 3 big trolls that have a lot of abilities like the bosses of Thief and Mischief? So you need an strategy to kill. Allow us to choose solo or fellow (solo have best rewards and a title) like the old epic instances. We know the game cannot be hard aways, that there are persons that dont like it, but there are persons that like it.

9 - So I'm running with my war-steed with my rk and I need dismount to do more damage?

10 - I'm stil playing lotro, but I started to look for another games. Make me love lotro again.

It's not so much an issue with the specific encounters you listed, as it is with general balance. Because of the class and itemization changes that came with HD, the entire game has become ridiculously easy, which is bad and which they are trying to fix with the coming updates.

You've got some good points in there regarding new skills interacting with old mechanics like the LT fight and power drain and the twins aggro wipe mechanic and the new way aggro works but for the most part it's all about the lack of balanced scaling.

I completely agree with this. We need challenge back in instances. And yes, I understand some people don't like hard challenges in which you wipe and wipe and wipe and wipe... if you don't know the tactics (I personally enjoy it more, wiping until I find out the tactic), but there is already an easy alternative for this, and it is called T1 raids/instances, if you do T2 and challenge, that should be at least hard for people who know what to do, and impossible to people without the minimum knowledge about the instance.
Most people just enjoy hard things for the joy of completing them, not for a possible unique reward, but here's what I suggest:
Allow scaled instances to give same rewards (same kind of rewards, not amount) and currency, but T2 and challenge to give really higher amounts. Change T2 current difficulty to new T1, and T2 with scaled dmg, ( no need to scale morale of enemies) and with a bit more requirement of tactics and coordination with more rewards.
For end game raids (if they ever will appear) make as orthanc used to be with 1st agers only on T2, or best armour only on T2 for erebor raids, so people who complete T1 will have something at least, but people who complete T2 will have a lot more (but not everyone will be able to complete T2).
Edit: But all that must happen after they balanced classes or they will kill usefulness of some classes: At least right now guardian got like 3x better survivability than warden on single target, and cappy even better than guard for survivability part. Healing...captain and rk have similar healing abilities full traits for that (though rk new style is not what us rune keepers like), and minstrel healing is way way way overpowered compared to content, and to other classes, it's really hard to find a really good runekeeper that can heal better than a mediocre minstrel. For dps seems every class is close at least, with an order depending on max dps ability (instance wise): Best dps: Rune keepers, Hunters, Burglars, Champions//// Medium dps: Warden, LM, guardian//// Low dps: Minstrel, captain. though there is not a big difference between medium dps classes and low dps ones. And before any minstrel say whatever they wanna say: Yes, minstrels got nice landscape 1shotting skills, but if you look at sustained dps they are way behind other classes, unless there's AOE and even AOE they're far behind a LM, Hunter and Champion on a fight longer than 10second duration.

This isn't a full solution, just a step in the right direction, but I think it would be nice if all mobs' mitigations, crit defense, bpe, resistance, finesse, and damage were scaled higher than they are now. I have never seen a single attack bpe'd in PvE since I hit lvl 95 on my hunter, my slows are rarely resisted, and I'm evading SO much. SO much.

Please, make mobs able to take a hit while dealing out one at the same time. I started a new character on Brandywine and was surprised to see that a minstrel can literally one shot yellow mobs with coda or call to fate -- sometimes I can one shot with piercing cry or call of the orome. Heck, those are my only non-ballad dps skills at the moment. I'm like almost frightened to see what the higher dps skills can do. And, minstrel is a healing class! Yes, I realize as the above poster stated that I will not have any sustained dps later on. But seriously? One shotting on yellow to orange mobs at the 30s levels? I miss when you actually had to plan pulls when you saw that there was a signature mob in the midst. Now you just one-shot the sig and faceroll the others without thinking.

Please, please, please bring back the challenge. I love this game, but it's starting to turn stale when there's no new instances and no challenge left in the old ones. Like I said, scaling mitigations, crit defense, bpe, resistance, finesse, and damage would be a step in the right direction. It certainly wouldn't fix the entire issue. But please consider doing this. I hope it would be effective.

One issue with this. I, as a guardian, have a lot less finesse than you. I can assure you that mob in pve instance BPE multi times when I only have 5K finesse (instead of 17k for you). Yes, I could trade BPE/Crit or evade for finesse.... but the itemization isn't that great to have full bpe AND full finesse

This isn't a full solution, just a step in the right direction, but I think it would be nice if all mobs' mitigations, crit defense, bpe, resistance, finesse, and damage were scaled higher than they are now. I have never seen a single attack bpe'd in PvE since I hit lvl 95 on my hunter, my slows are rarely resisted, and I'm evading SO much. SO much.

Please, make mobs able to take a hit while dealing out one at the same time. I started a new character on Brandywine and was surprised to see that a minstrel can literally one shot yellow mobs with coda or call to fate -- sometimes I can one shot with piercing cry or call of the orome. Heck, those are my only non-ballad dps skills at the moment. I'm like almost frightened to see what the higher dps skills can do. And, minstrel is a healing class! Yes, I realize as the above poster stated that I will not have any sustained dps later on. But seriously? One shotting on yellow to orange mobs at the 30s levels? I miss when you actually had to plan pulls when you saw that there was a signature mob in the midst. Now you just one-shot the sig and faceroll the others without thinking.

Please, please, please bring back the challenge. I love this game, but it's starting to turn stale when there's no new instances and no challenge left in the old ones. Like I said, scaling mitigations, crit defense, bpe, resistance, finesse, and damage would be a step in the right direction. It certainly wouldn't fix the entire issue. But please consider doing this. I hope it would be effective.

Classes in general are way overpowered

We heal too much
Do too much damage
Have too may buffs (cappy etc)

And as a result all instances/raids now become a dps race

And the main thing with 12.2 is nothing new end-game, im glad i cancelled my sub.

That's not true... champs get even more bows. Sarcasm aside, I think we should have realized where this train was heading at least when turbine said that the new end-game in RoR would be... FISHING! Yes, technically there was a fishing end-game though they didn't speak of it ever again after the outrage. However, I think that sums up the effort they will put into end-game in the future

[SIZE=3][COLOR=#008000]If it moves, kill it - Then look for more things to kill[/COLOR][/SIZE]

Oh fralin how right you are, I remember rolling a champion because I was in ave of you. Then you and most of people that mattered left withy and I tried to cling on to the game. Even though the account is still running 3 months on VIP, I faced the truth and convinced myself that each further second I waste playing this game is time thrown away and spit on. Turbine isn't willing/capable of producing content that would entice PvE players anymore and PvP is nothing worthy of a mentioning either.
Furthermore the fact that champion is idiotic now with single-target capabilities next to nothing and AoE line that any 10 year old can master has really put a stamp on things.

On-topic: I think you are kidding yourself by thinking that any of these suggsestions will be looked at and considered. From what I remember the amount of people that were begging turbine to fix things before 12.0 went live and gave every possible suggsestion to help them was quite massive. But 12.0 went live like a project before even being beta-ready. Now they are "balancing" their own misdoings and hoping to cling on to the little player-base they have left while putting minimal resources to actually developing the game "2014 expansion-less".
Call it a consipiracy theory but it really does seem as if the company is just trying to milk every single penny left on the content that they've ever created while trimming costs and I dont expect lotro to be there in 2 years.

1 - Ost Dunroth Poison Wing - with 2 minis you can out heal the damage of the poison on boss, so dont need swap plataform to complete the challenge. The damage of poison need force you to do that other way have no chalenge. Before was hard for many classes to reach cap mitigations, now that we all have that is easy to keep everyone alive there. No challenge anymore.

2 - Barad Guldur - The Liutennant - part of the challenge is the corruption of the boss, you need choose between: less power, less speed or less heals. The easy way is keep the corruption that give power debuff. The boss is imune to the old skill to steal power, but not to the new one. So you can keep that corruption and have power since you have a lm. No need to steal power from the wight anymore. No challenge.

3 - Helegrod/Skirmish raids - I remember when in the 75 we all got concentrade when a litennant grim come, because he could one shoot the entire raid. I remember when I needed 2 healers on me all time to get the hatchlings from the eggs in Helegrod drake because of the amount of damage. I remember when the wargs of warg pens could one shoot me traited/geared dps on my warden. That was way too much, agreed. But since you changed that, all those runs became a faceroll. Game really need a half way between that. Is is not possible, keep it in hard mode, not like this. I did helegrod drake last week and the fire that the worms put on the ground do 69 damage each 3 sec, so no need to move anymore.

4 - I liked the idea of some quests to be Challenge, but sounds like you guys have no idea what is challenge. Lots of morale and no special abilities means nothing. I like the idea of Monsters or Madness quest, but again, thousands of morale, no special abilities, no challenge. I soloed the tiger and worm on rk, probably can solo the turtle. That was an oportunity to have in the landscape some really nice monsters that would require strategy to kill (like the weapons in FF7), but you just made they be a bored fight. Wanna see a challenge? Give to that turtle the ability of the troll of Ivar wing, while he have the corruption he recouver 5% of morale for each hit, so you need stop dps sometimes, if remove the corruption, spread disease to everyone around with a strong debuff. Give her a really strong atack that need to be interrupted and she use an aoe stun and right after that start the induction, so need use the skill to break stun or have a LM. Make it do really nice damage so you need a LM/burg to debuff and a tank with healer to hold it. Give her the ability to each atack reduce armor of the tank, so tanks need swap position to be alive. So, when crossing by that place you would say: "that turtle is ####ing dangerous" and not "that stupid turtle, let's zerg it".

5 - The twins in Barad Guldur - you used to need 2 tanks to hold the man there, because the yellow eye reset the threat and that was a problem before, but now that the skills to force taunt also give us threat leadership there is no challenge anymore. Just use the skill again and we have aggro again. Similar problem happens with the red eye in The Lost Temple.

6 - When I'm in raid doing Durchest t2c, I used to call names to pot fear, now I say no worries it does nothing. you need to scale all things, not just damage and morale.

7 - Make the side quests hard and allow us to tank (not only force) mobs in the big-battles.

8 - Create some optional quests with really nice challenge and good rewards, like LI scrolls, Relics T9... Allow us to run it 1 time per week, make we use mithril coins to reset it. Why a not quest to go into a cave and kill 3 big trolls that have a lot of abilities like the bosses of Thief and Mischief? So you need an strategy to kill. Allow us to choose solo or fellow (solo have best rewards and a title) like the old epic instances. We know the game cannot be hard aways, that there are persons that dont like it, but there are persons that like it.

9 - So I'm running with my war-steed with my rk and I need dismount to do more damage?

10 - I'm stil playing lotro, but I started to look for another games. Make me love lotro again.

1 - Thats how I've done poisen since level 65, i mean i've done the switching but you could always heal through that DoT it just could of been tougher with less skilled groups
2 - if you do that then tactical class's cant damage the boss -100% tactical damage, so its still good to rotate the corruptions as one would normally do, but the power problem there that would normally happen has deff been resolved so its a outdated mechanic which should be expected considering the raid is a few years old.

9 - war steeds are probably the least worry with everything else they need to fix

other than that i agree with u man and this game has become rather easy ^^