Brecht - I think since uh, middle of the twenties. Uh, twent, twenty years or so.

Stripling - Have you collaborated with him on a number of works?

Brecht - Yeah

Stripling - Uh, Mr. Brecht are you a member of the Communist party or have you ever been a member
of the Communist party?

Brecht - May I read my statement?

( Audience murmur )

Brecht - I'll answer his question, may I read, but may I read my statement?

Stripling - Uh, would you submit your statement to the chairman please.

( Apparent Cut. 0:39 )

Thomas - Mr. Brecht, the committee has carefully gone over this statement. It's a very interesting
story of uh, German life, but it's not at all pertinent to this inquiry. Therefore we do not care
to have you read the statement.

Stripling - Now I'll I'll repeat the original question. Uh, are you now or have you ever been a
member of the Communist party of -any- country.

Brecht - Mr. Chairman I have heard uh my colleagues uh, uhh, and they consider this question not as
proper, but, I am a guest in this country and do not want to enter in any legal argument, so I
will answer your question fully, as well I can. I was not a member, or am not a member, of any
Communist party.

Stripling - You..

Unidentified voice (interrupting) - Your answer then is that you have never been a member of the
Communist party

Brecht - That is correct

Stripling - You, you were not a member of the Communist party for Germany?

Brecht - No I was not

( Pause )

Stripling - Uh, Mr. Brecht... is it true that you have written a number of very revolutionary
poems, plays, and other writings?

Brecht - I am uh written a number of poems, songs, and plays, in the fight against Hitler, and, of
course, they can be considered, therefore, as revolutionary, cause, I, of course, was for the
overthrow, of that government.

Unidentified voice - Mr. Stripling, we're not interested in

Stripling - Yeah

Unidentified voice - any works that he might of written, uh, going for the overthrow of Germany,

Stripling - Yes, I,

Unidentified voice - the government there

Stripling - Uh well, from the examination of the works which Mr. Brecht has written, particularly
in collaboration with Mr. Hanns Eisler, uh he seems to be a person of international importance
to the, Communist revolutionary movement. Now Mr. Brecht, uh, is it true, do you know whether or
not you have written articles, for

Stripling - Have you written articles, uh which have appeared in, uh, publications in the Soviet
zone, of Germany?

Brecht - I.. do..

Stripling (interrupting) - in the past few months?

Brecht - I have, no, I do not remember to have written such articles, I have not seen any of them
printed, I have not written such articles, just now. I write very few articles, if any.

Stripling - I have here Mr. Chairman a document which I'll hand to the translator and ask him to,
uh, to uh identify for the committee, and to refer to an article which appears on page 72.

Unidentified voice - When did he write that? You want me to...

Brecht - Oh, may I speak to that, to that uh publication?

Stripling - Beg pardon?

Brecht - My I explain this uh

Stripling - Yes we, we will identify the publication

Brecht - Oh yes, that uh is not an article, that is a scene out of a play I wrote, in, I think 19..
30... 7, or 1938, in Denmark. The play is uh called, Private Life of the Master Race [3], and this
scene is one of the scenes out of this play about the Jewish, woman, in Berlin, the year of 36
or 37. It uh was I see printed in this magazine Ost und West.

Stripling - Uh Mr. Brecht, do you know the gentleman who is the, editor of the publication whose
name was just read?

Brecht - Yes, I know him from Berlin, and I met him in New York again.

Stripling - Do you know him to be a member of the Communist party of Germany?

Brecht - Uh when I met him in Germany I, think a, he was a journalist in the Ullstein
Press, that is a, not a, not a Communist, uh, was not, Communist, there were no Communist art, uh,
papers, though I do not know exactly, whether he was a member of the Communist party of Germany.

Stripling - You don't know whether he was a member of the Communist party or not.

Brecht - I don't know, no, have no... I don't know.

( Apparent Cut. 7:05 )

Stripling - Uh Mr. Brecht, uh, could you tell the committee how many times you've been to Moscow?

Brecht - Yeah. I was in, was invited to Moscow, uh, two times.

Stripling - Who invited you.

Brecht - Uh, was uh, the first time I, was invited, uh, by, by WOKS, that is name a
cultural, it's an organization for cul, cultural exchange uh.. Uh, I was invited to show a, a
picture, a documentary picture, I had, had to have made in Berlin.

Stripling - What was the name of that picture.

Brecht - Uh, the name is uh, uh the name of a suburb of Berlin, Kuhle Wampe. [4]

Unidentified voice - Can you spell that please

Brecht - K U H L E ... W A M P E

Stripling - Uh, while you in Berlin, did you meet, I mean, pardon me, while in Moscow did you meet
Sergei T r e t y a k o v. T r e t y a k o v. Tretyakov.

Brecht - Yes. He translated, uh, some of my, poems, and I think one play.

Stripling - Uh, Mr. Chairman, International Literature number 5, 1937, uh, published by the State
Literary Art Publishing house in Moscow, had an article by Sergei Tretyakov, leading Soviet
writer, an interview he had with Mr. Brecht. On page 6 it states, quote, I was a member of the,
this is, he's quoting Mr. Brecht,

I was a member of the Augsburg revolutionary committee, Brecht continues, Nearby in Munich,
Levine raised the banner of Soviet power. Augsburg lived in the reflected glow of Munich. The
hospital was the only militant unit in the town. It elected me to the revolutionary committee,
end quote.

Tretyakov continues, He wrote Drum at Night. This work contains echoes of the revolution.
The work was a scathing satire on those who had deserted the revolution. His play, Das Manahme [5],
the first of Brecht's plays on a communist theme, is arranged like a court, where the characters
try to justify themselves for having killed a comrade.

When he visited Moscow in 1932, Brecht told me his plan to organize a theater in Berlin, which
would re-enact the most interesting trials in the history of mankind, for example, the trial of
Karl Marx. The story of economics brought Brecht to Marx and Lenin, whose works became an
indispensable part of his library. Brecht studies and quotes Lenin, Lenin as a great thinker and
as a great master of prose. According to Brecht, the theater should act on the spectator's
intellect. The traditional drama portrays a struggle of class inst. . instincts. Brecht demands
that the struggle of class instincts be replaced by the struggle of social consciousness, of
social conviction. He maintains that the situation must not only be felt, but explained,
crystallized into the idea which will overturn the world.

Brecht the artist has an extremely broad and varied range. He has composed many ballads,
songs, and choruses on the subject of revolutionary ruthlessness. His book shelf however
contains books of science and action and Lenin.

Do you recall that interview Mr Brecht?

Brecht - No.

( Pause )

( Audience laughter )

Brecht - Must have been written twenty years ago or so I ...

Stripling - I'll show you the magazine Mr. Brecht

Brecht - Yeah. I do not doubt I was, was at that interview. I do not recall, Mr. Stripling I do not
recall the interview in itself, I think it is a, more or less, uh, journalistic, uh.. (aside to
translator),

Baumgardt - Summary make-up.

Brecht - A summary of, of uh, of talks or discussions about many things

Stripling (interrupting) - Have

Brecht - made by Tretyakov

Stripling - Have many of your writings been based on the philosophy of Lenin, Marx?

Brecht - No, I don't think that is quite correct. And uh, but of course, uh I studied, uh had to
study as a playwrite, I think, who wrote historical plays, I of course had to study to study uh,
uh Marx's ideas about history. I do not think that, uh, intelligent plays toda. . today can be
written without uh that study. Also history, now, is uh, written now, is widely influenced by
this, by the studies of Marx about history

( Apparent Cut. 13:06 )

Stripling - Uh Mr. Brecht uh since you have been in the United States have you met with any
officials of the Soviet government?

Brecht - Yes... yes, in uh, in uh, Hollywood I was invited, sometimes, three or four times, there
uh to the, Soviet Consulate, with of course with many other w

Stripling (interrupting) - Who others, what others

Brecht - What?

Stripling - What others

Brecht - With other writers, and artists, and uh, and uh, actors, to uh, they gave, uh, some uh
receptions, uh, at uh special Soviet (aside to translator)

Baumgardt - festivities

Brecht - Yeah festivities

Stripling - Did any uh officials of the Soviet government ever come and visit you?

Brecht - I do not remember the name, but uh but it is quite poss... uh but I remember in this,
in, I remember that uh, that uh, that from the... I think from the, yes, from the consulate,
from the Russian consulate, uh... some people visited me, not but not only this man,
only also I think Consul once, but I do not remember his name either.

Stripling - What was the nature of his business?

Brecht - He uh, it must have been, uh about, about uh, uh my literary connections with uh, with uh,
German writers, uh, some of them are friends of mine.

Stripling - German writers

Brecht - Yeah in Moscow

Stripling - In Moscow

Brecht - Yeah. And uh there appeared in the Staats Verlag in Soviet Union translations of my
plays for instance uh this uh Private Life of the Master Race, and Galileo, and a novel,
the Penny for the Poor, and poems and so.

Brecht - That I do not know. They m, might have published some po, uh some translation of a poem.
But uh I had no uh direct connections,

Stripling - Did you...

Brecht - not in the sense you meant.

Stripling - Did you collaborate with Hanns Eisler in song uh In Praise of Learning?

Brecht - Yeah, uh collaborate, I wrote that song, he only wrote the music.

Stripling - You wrote, you wrote the song.

Brecht - I wrote the song.

Stripling - Would you uh, would you recite to the committee the words of that song?

Brecht - Yeah I would. May I point out that that song is, is a, is... comes from, an, an adaptation
I made of uh Gorky's novel The Mother, and in, in this song a Russian worker woman

Stripling (interrupting) - What

Brecht - advises other poor people

Stripling - Uh, it was produced in this country wasn't it

Brecht - Yes,

Stripling - uh

Brecht - 35, New York

Stripling - Yes. Now I'll read the words, ans ask you if this is true

Brecht - Please

Stripling -

Learn now the simple truth
You for whom the time has come at last
It is not too late
Learn now the ABC
It is not enough but learn it still
Fear not, be not downhearted
Again, you must learn the lesson
You must be ready to take over
You must -

Brecht - Uh, uh, that is not the right, just one second I give you the correct text.

Stripling - That's not a correct translation?

Brecht - That is not correct, no. As to the meaning it is not correct as to the meaning.
It is not very beautiful but I am not speaking about that.

(crosstalk)

Stripling - Well what does it mean

Brecht - No

Stripling - Well here is the uh, I have here the uh, Songs of the People, uh
which was issued by the Communist party of the United States, published
by the Worker's Library Publishers. Page 24 says In Praise of Learning

Brecht - Yeah

Stripling - by Bert Brecht, Music by Hanns Eisler. And it says here, uh, "You must be ready to
take over. Learn it, men on the dole, learn it, men in the prisons, learn it women in the
kitchens, learn it men of 65. . . you must be ready to take over"

Baumgardt - The correct translation would be "you must take the lead".

Unidentified voice - "You must take the lead"

Baumgardt - The lead. It definitely says lead. It's the same word as the leader Hitler or
something like that. It is not "take over". ( crosstalk, unintelligible ) The translation is not a literal translation of
the German text I see here.

Stripling - Well Mr Brecht, uh, as it has been published in these uh, publications of the Communist
party, then is that incorrect? What did you mean?

Brecht - I do not remember to have, uh, I do, I never got that book, myself. I must not have been
in the country when it was published - I think it was published as a song, of uh, one of
the songs Eisler has written the music to. I did not give any permission to, to publish it.
I did not see, I think I never saw the translation, uh

Stripling - Well do you, do you have, do you have the words

(crosstalk, unintelligible)

Brecht - In German, yes

Stripling - Of the song as it appears

Brecht - Oh yes, it's in the book

Stripling - not as it was originally written

(crosstalk, unintelligible)

Stripling - Ah, it goes on, "you must be ready to take over, you must be ready to take over, don't
hesitate to ask"

Brecht - Y..

Stripling - "questions, comrade"

Brecht - y..

Stripling - Is that, is that in there? "Don't hesitate to ask questions comrade"?

Baumgardt - I am mainly interested in translation of this refrain which comes back and back, which is the end...

Thomas - I can't understand the interpreter any more than I can understand (unintelligible)

( Audience laughter )

Baumgardt - Mr Chairman I apologize (crosstalk)

Thomas - If you just speak in that microphone maybe we can make out a little bit better.

Baumgardt - The last line, of our three verses, is uh correctly to be translated, "you must take
over the lead", and not "you must" uh "take over". "You must take the lead", would be the best, uh
correct, most accurate translation.

( Apparent Cut. 24:00 )

Thomas - Some people did ask you to join the Communist party, didn't they?

Brecht - uhh..

Unidentified voice - Was it in Germany or (unintelligble)

Brecht - In Germany, you mean in Germany?

Thomas - No I mean in the United States.

Brecht - No no no no.

Thomas - Now you let, you let him, he's doing allright. He's doing much better than the other witnesses that you brought here.

( Audience Laughter )

Thomas - You don't ever recall anyone in the United States ever asking you to
join the Communist party?

Brecht - No I don't recall any body having asked me.

Thomas - Mr. McDowell do you have any questions

McDowell - No, I have no questions.

Thomas - Mr. Vail

Vail - No questions.

Thomas - Mr. Stripling do you have any more questions?

Stripling - I would like to ask uh Mr. Brecht whether or not he wrote, a poem, a
song rather entitled "Forward, We've Not Forgotten".

Unidentified voice - Forward we've what?

Stripling - Forward, we've not forgotten.

Brecht - Uh, I do not uh, recognize the English title maybe. Can I see?

Stripling - Would you translate it for him into German?

Brecht - Oh now I re- , yes, I know, yes (crosstalk)

Stripling - You wrote that. Are you familiar with the words to that?

Brecht - That is, yes, that is, yeah.

Stripling - Uh would the committee like me to read that?

Thomas - There is no objection, so ordered.

Stripling -

Forward, we've not forgotten
Our strength in the fights we have won
No matter what may threaten
Forward, not forgotten
How strong we are as one
Only these our hands now aching
Built the roads, the walls, the towers
All the world is of our making
What of it-- What, of it can we call ours

The refrain

Forward, march on to power
Through the city, the land, the world
Forward, advance the hour
Just whose city is the city?
Just whose world is the world?

Forward, we've not forgotten
Our union, in hunger and pain
No matter what may threaten
Forward, not forgotten
We have a world to gain

We shall free the world of shadow
Every shop and every room
Every road and every meadow
All the world will be our own