In GSC you had a pretty good chance of getting a shiny baby. However, FR/LG is pretty much the same as RSE, and I'm almost sure that in RSE your odds of getting a shiny from breeding aren't much better than finding one in the wild, so I'd assume it's the same for FR/LG.

Sun Dec 12, 2004 11:44 am

Mr. Saturn

Ace Trainer

Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 7:09 pmPosts: 398

shininess is no longer based on DVs, so having shiny babies is the same chance as finding a wild one.

back in g/s/c, the chances varied depending on the parent. but a shiny ditto made for the 1 in 64 chance that Darkkend mentioned.

Sun Dec 12, 2004 11:44 am

Darkkend

Lite Four

Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 9:44 amPosts: 655Location: Los Angeles, CA

you guys are quick, so it was the breeding a shiny with a ditto back in G/S/C that was 1 out of 64 chance

you guys are quick, so it was the breeding a shiny with a ditto back in G/S/C that was 1 out of 64 chance

no, it was breeding a pokemon with a shiny ditto Remember the old shiny ditto glitch? You took the red gyarados from Lake of Rage, traded it to r/b/y, taught it mimic, then engaged a battle with a Ditto. you then used mimic on transform (as in r/b/y, you could pick the move you mimiced) then Ditto would transform into a gyarados with Transform. Then, let the ditto (now a gyarados) use Transform again. catch the Ditto, and when you trade it (and presumably your red gyarados) back to g/s/c, your Ditto should be shiny.

Sun Dec 12, 2004 11:57 am

papersun

Pokemon Ranger

Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 10:10 amPosts: 710Location: Nebraska

The only problem with that was your Pokemon would be shiny, but it would only have 2/3 its max stats. Shinies in Ru/Sa/FR/LG can actually have good DVs.

From what I understand of the DVs and the shiny status of Pokemon, here's my take on it:

A Pokemon's DVs are determined at random, and the value is equal to a number between 1 and 31.
The Pokemon is shiny if all 6 DVs are identical in value.
When you breed a Pokemon, it takes 2 DV values directly from one parent and 1 from the other. If it takes the 2 DV values from the shiny parent, then the baby has a very large headstart on being shiny because those two values are guaranteed to be identical.
In fact, the odds of a shiny Pokemon and regular Pokemon's child being shiny are - when 2 DV values are taken from the shiny parent - 961 times better than that of two standard colored Pokemon's children.
2 standard colored: 31 x 31 x 31 x 31 x 31 x 31 = 887,503,681
1 shiny, 1 standard: 31 x 31 x 31 x 31 x 1 x 1 = 923,521
The last two values are a 1 because they would already be a guaranteed match to each other.
In fact, you could even improve your odds of getting a shiny baby all the more by breeding matching shiny parents; as rediculous as that is to imagine getting (it's a 1 in 756,943,935,220,796,320,321 chance), you'd actually reduce the odds of a shiny baby down to...
31 x 31 x 31 x 1 x 1 x 1 = 29,791
...because all three DV values taken from the parents would be a guaranteed match. Likewise, the chances of breeding a shiny baby from two shiny parents with unmatching DV values is 00% because at least one value is guaranteed not to match.

Basically, the more numbers of the parents that match, the better.

*edit: I forgot the word "shiny" one time, and the whole thing didn't make sense because of it.*

_________________King of Marlton

Last edited by CaptainCool on Sun Dec 12, 2004 11:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Sun Dec 12, 2004 10:32 pm

CaptainCool

Psychic Trainer

Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 9:13 amPosts: 59Location: Marlton, NJ

In re-reading my post, I just realized something. I'll try to fix my error here, but it'll be complicated. I'll use the term "Major Parent" to stand for the parent passing on two DV values, and "Minor Parent" will be for the parent passing on one...

*probability of a shiny Pokemon and a shiny Pokemon (with matching DV values) having a shiny baby: 31 x 31 x 31 x 1 x 1 x 1 = 29,791 {since all three values taken from the parents are guaranteed to match, each is represented by a 1 - the odds do not go up because there is no "chance" in it}

*probability of a shiny Pokemon and standard colored Pokemon (with one matching DV value) having a shiny baby if the shiny Pokemon is the Major Parent: 31 x 31 x 31 x 6 x 1 x 1 = 178,746 {the two guaranteed DV value matches of the Major Parent are represented by the 1s; the 1 in 6 shot of getting the DV value that matches the Major Parent's from the Minor Parent is represented by the 6; the three remaining values, all chosen at random, each individually have a 1 in 31 chance of matching the first three values}

*probability of a shiny Pokemon and standard colored Pokemon (with only one matching DV value) having a shiny baby if the shiny Pokemon is the Minor Parent: 31 x 31 x 31 x 6 x 1 x 0 = 0 {the 0 represents the second value taken from the Major Parent which has no chance in matching the single DV value taken from the Minor Parent}

*probability of two standard color Pokemon (with only one matching DV value) having a shiny baby: 31 x 31 x 31 x 6 x 6 x 0 = 0 {the 6s represent the probability of having the matching DV values be those passing on; the 0 represents the second DV value taken from either single parent which does not match the other two}

*probability of two standard color Pokemon (with three common DV values, split two-and-1 between parents) having a shiny baby if the Major Parent is the Pokemon that has the two already matching DV values: 31 x 31 x 31 x 6 x (3x5) x 1 = 2,681,190 {the probability of pulling the first of the matching DV values off of the Major Parent is represented by the 3, as either two of the six DV values could be picked; the 5 is representative of the 1 in 5 chance that the second matching DV value has to be picked; the 6 is representative of the 1 in 6 chance of passing down the DV value from the Minor Parent that matches that of the Major Parent; and the 1 is to stand for the matched values of the Major Parent's DVs}
^You'll note that the probability of those two values matching is compensated for in the (3x5) block. To add in additional probability for that same value would be a double jeopardy.^

*probability of two standard color Pokemon (with three common DV values, split two-and-1 between parents) having a shiny baby if the Minor Parent is the Pokemon that has the two already matching DV values: 31 x 31 x 31 x 6 x 3 x 0 = 0 {the 6 is the 1 in 6 chance of passing the matching DV value from the Major Parent since only one of its six match; the 3 is the 1 in 3 chance of passing the matching DV value from the Minor Parent since two of its six match; the 0 is the second DV value of the Major Parent, which has no chance in matching}

*With each additional matching DV value, assuming there is always at least one value capable of matching on the Minor Parent and two on the Major Parent, our odds get better and better.

edit: fixed a couple of wrong numbers; it's late and this isn't basic math

_________________King of Marlton

Sun Dec 12, 2004 11:20 pm

CaptainCool

Psychic Trainer

Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 9:13 amPosts: 59Location: Marlton, NJ

Just for kicks...

Here is the probability of running into two shiny Pokemon:
1 in 787,662,783,788,549,761

Here is the probability that they'll have matching DV values:
1 in 756,943,935,220,796,320,321

_________________King of Marlton

Sun Dec 12, 2004 11:30 pm

CaptainCool

Psychic Trainer

Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 9:13 amPosts: 59Location: Marlton, NJ

Arg...sorry. I just read the original post on this thread and realized I forgot something.
The species of the Pokemon parents shouldn't matter, as species has no baring on DV values and shiny status is wholly dependent on DV values.

And the answer to the poll question varies. If the shiny Pokemon have matching DV values, that's your best shot at a shiny baby. If the shiny Pokemon have differing DV values, you have no shot at a shiny baby.

I could make this a little more "guide friendly" upon request. It'll be easy to clean up and organize when I'm 100% awake.

Here is the probability that they'll have matching DV values:
1 in 756,943,935,220,796,320,321that is a pretty big number, captaincool, how do you know that is the correct number that we are all looking at?

It's a fairly simple combination. In order for a pokemon to be shiny it has to have all of it's DV's match up. In order to find that you take the possible amount of variants in the DVs and put it to the power of DVs you actually have, which is where he got 31 to the sixth power or -> 31 x 31 x 31 x 31 x 31 x 31 = 887,503,681.

In order to run into 2 shiny pokemon, it would be the square of that, which is 887,503,681 x 887,503,681 = 787,662,783,788,549,761.

In order to find two that had the same exact DV's you would have to take the amount of variants squared times your chances of finding 2 shiny pokemon which is 787,662,783,788,549,761 x 31 x 31 = 756,943,245,221,106,320,321.

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Sat Dec 18, 2004 8:21 am

Mr. Saturn

Ace Trainer

Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 7:09 pmPosts: 398

can anyone back up the all matching DV claim, perhaps via gameshark or something? I was under the impression that it was based on the same values that give unown their shape and spinda their spot patterns.

Edit: I just checked my shiny Crobat DVs, and calculated them as:

HP: 9
Atk: 0
Def: 11
Speed: 6
SpAtk: 4
SpDef: 14

so not only does that shoot down the matching DV theory, but it ALSO shows that my crobat has suck ass DVs O_o

Sat Dec 18, 2004 9:18 am

CaptainCool

Psychic Trainer

Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 9:13 amPosts: 59Location: Marlton, NJ

First off, sorry for not responding - I've been SUPER busy the past couple days.

Math is very much my strong point, but the numbers posted were very simple calculations; it's just a lot of numbers at once, so it's easy to lose your place. AMitch explained it rather well. As math intensive as Pokemon is, nothing ever really gets passed basic Probability or intermediate Algebra.

And far as validating the matching DVs theory, I found that on two different websites. Both seemed rather well put together, so I trusted the information found (just as I trust everything I read on Psypoke). I apologize if I'm off - it was pretty fun to put all those numbers out, though.

The odds aren't a complete waste, either. Some of them can be applicable to the chances of finding a specific (or even prefect) DV set, and other things of that nature.

_________________King of Marlton

Sun Dec 19, 2004 12:46 am

CaptainCool

Psychic Trainer

Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 9:13 amPosts: 59Location: Marlton, NJ

Shiny or not, you have to release that Crobat. Those DVs are making me sick to my stomach. Out of 186 possible DV points, he's bringing in a whopping 44. Wow. In fact, if we were to consider 16 the value of mediocraty, he doesn't have a single DV value that makes it up to "average."

It's late - pardon my spelling/grammar...

_________________King of Marlton

Sun Dec 19, 2004 12:49 am

RaichuLatias

Pokemon Master

Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 4:50 pmPosts: 1205Location: Southern Island

CaptainCool wrote:

Shiny or not, you have to release that Crobat. Those DVs are making me sick to my stomach.

Why should he release it if it has bad stats? My Sandslash also has bad DVs, but i'm not releasing it.

_________________

Sun Dec 19, 2004 10:17 am

Mr. Saturn

Ace Trainer

Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 7:09 pmPosts: 398

RaichuLatias wrote:

CaptainCool wrote:

Shiny or not, you have to release that Crobat. Those DVs are making me sick to my stomach.

Why should he release it if it has bad stats? My Sandslash also has bad DVs, but i'm not releasing it.

exactly. Not like I'm gonna take it to a tournament or anything (I wouldn't even go to a tournament, so no problems there)... It'll mostly be for oohs and ahs and creaming my cousin... besides, releasing a shiny is like tearing up a winning lotto ticket, in that it brands you as a grade A moron... I could always trade it, if need be... People'd dogpile me if they wanted a shiny that bad...

Seriously, people get way too uptight about a pokemon's stats and whatnot. and that makes me..... a sad panda...

Sun Dec 19, 2004 11:57 am

CaptainCool

Psychic Trainer

Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 9:13 amPosts: 59Location: Marlton, NJ

Text doesn't quite convey sarcasm like it used to, but the fact that you referred to yourself as a "sad panda" more than makes up for the misunderstanding. Awesome.

_________________King of Marlton

Mon Dec 20, 2004 9:03 am

Mr. Saturn

Ace Trainer

Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 7:09 pmPosts: 398

CaptainCool wrote:

Text doesn't quite convey sarcasm like it used to, but the fact that you referred to yourself as a "sad panda" more than makes up for the misunderstanding. Awesome.

the sad panda thing is just a thing I say sometimes.

Mon Dec 20, 2004 9:52 am

TheCyberMew

Lite Four

Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 8:31 amPosts: 490Location: hecho en mexico

Mr. Saturn wrote:

CaptainCool wrote:

Text doesn't quite convey sarcasm like it used to, but the fact that you referred to yourself as a "sad panda" more than makes up for the misunderstanding. Awesome.

the sad panda thing is just a thing I say sometimes.

Eh, sorry this is off topic, but you did get that from South Park, right? I'd be surprised if you didn't.

Just wondering...

Thu Dec 23, 2004 3:42 pm

Mr. Saturn

Ace Trainer

Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 7:09 pmPosts: 398

TheCyberMew wrote:

Mr. Saturn wrote:

CaptainCool wrote:

Text doesn't quite convey sarcasm like it used to, but the fact that you referred to yourself as a "sad panda" more than makes up for the misunderstanding. Awesome.

the sad panda thing is just a thing I say sometimes.

Eh, sorry this is off topic, but you did get that from South Park, right? I'd be surprised if you didn't.

Just wondering...

nope... I don't even have cable, so watching south park is a rarity. I don't like it, either.

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