Vice President Joe Biden gestures during his debate at Centre College in Danville, Ky., C with Rep. Paul Ryan, the Republican vice presidential candidate. (AP Photo/Rick Wilking) (CNSNews.com) - Vice President Joe Biden said in Thursday nights vice presidential debate that life begins at conception, that he accepts the Catholic Churchs position on abortion, and that he believes abortion must be legal.

The Catholic Church's teaching is not only that abortion is always wrong, but also that Catholics in public office have a grave duty to oppose legalizing it while speaking out clearly against it.

The position Biden took on abortion before an audience of many millions in this nationally televised debate was in direct defiance of an ancient moral teaching of the church that has been emphatically restated by the current pope and his immediate predecessor.

Before explaining why he wants aborting unborn children to be legal, Biden told the nation that he had been a practicing Catholic his whole life and that his social views had been formed by the churchs teachings about taking care of those who cant take care of themselves.

Vice President Joe Biden making a point at the Oct. 11, 2012, vice presidential debate at Centre College in Danville, Ky. (AP Photo/Eric Gay)My religion defines who I am, and I have been a practicing Catholic my whole life, Biden said. And it has particularly informed my social doctrine. Catholic social doctrine talks about taking care of those who cant take care of themselves, people who need help.

With regard to abortion, he said, I accept my churchs position on abortion as a, what we call de fide doctrine. Life begins at conception. Thats the churchs judgment. I accept it in my personal life. But I refuse to impose it on equally devout Christian and Muslims and Jews, and I just refuse to impose that on others, unlike my friend here, the congressman.

I do not believe that we have a right to tell other people that, women, that they cant control their body, said Biden. It is a decision between them and their doctor, in my view, and the Supreme Court. I am not going to interfere with that.

The actual position of the Catholic Church is that any law legalizing the killing of an unborn child is an unjust law that violates the natural law and is, therefore, no law at all. Vice President Bidens church teaches that it is not acceptable even to obey such laws let alone support them as part of a political campaign.

"Laws which authorize and promote abortion and euthanasia are therefore radically opposed not only to the good of the individual but also to the common good; as such they are completely lacking in authentic juridical validity." Pope John Paul II wrote in his 1995 encyclical letter, Evangelium Vitae.

"Disregard for the right to life, precisely because it leads to the killing of the person whom society exists to serve, is what most directly conflicts with the possibility of achieving the common good," the pope said. "Consequently, a civil law authorizing abortion or euthanasia ceases by that very fact to be a true, morally binding civil law.

"Abortion and euthanasia are thus crimes which no human law can claim to legitimize," said the pope. "There is no obligation in conscience to obey such laws; instead there is a grave and clear obligation to oppose them by conscientious objection."

"In the case of an intrinsically unjust law, such as a law permitting abortion or euthanasia, it is therefore never licit to obey it, or to 'take part in a propaganda campaign in favour of such a law, or vote for it,'" declared the pope.

At the same time, legislative proposals are put forward which, heedless of the consequences for the existence and future of human beings with regard to the formation of culture and social behaviour, attack the very inviolability of human life," said this statement of Catholic teaching.

"Catholics, in this difficult situation, have the right and the duty to recall society to a deeper understanding of human life and to the responsibility of everyone in this regard," Cardinal Ratzinger wrote. "John Paul II, continuing the constant teaching of the Church, has reiterated many times that those who are directly involved in lawmaking bodies have a «grave and clear obligation to oppose» any law that attacks human life. For them, as for every Catholic, it is impossible to promote such laws or to vote for them."

Cardinal Ratzinger also said in this official Vatican statement that Catholics have a similar inalterable duty to defend the rights of human embryos and the institution of marriage.

When political activity comes up against moral principles that do not admit of exception, compromise or derogation, the Catholic commitment becomes more evident and laden with responsibility," said the doctrinal note. "In the face of fundamental and inalienable ethical demands,Christians must recognize that what is at stake is the essence of the moral law, which concerns the integral good of the human person. This is the case with laws concerning abortion and euthanasia (not to be confused with the decision to forgo extraordinary treatments, which is morally legitimate). Such laws must defend the basic right to life from conception to natural death.In the same way, it is necessary to recall the duty to respect and protect the rights of the human embryo.

"Analogously," wrote Cardinal Ratzinger, "the family needs to be safeguarded and promoted, based on monogamous marriage between a man and a woman, and protected in its unity and stability in the face of modern laws on divorce: in no way can other forms of cohabitation be placed on the same level as marriage, nor can they receive legal recognition as such.

Martha Raddatz of ABC News moderated the vice presidential debate. (AP Photo/Michael Reynolds)Biden's explanation of why he is pro-abortion came in response to a question from the debate moderator, Martha Raddatz of ABC News, who specifically made an issue of the fact that both Biden and Republican vice presidential candidate Paul Ryan are Catholics.

Raddatz then phrased her question on abortion as if the position these candidates took on the question of whether it ought to be legal to take the life of an unborn child was essentially a denominational and emotional matter, rather than one of rationally applying the immutable natural law--which is expressly referenced in the non-denominational Declaration of Independence signed by the Founding Fathers of this nation--to the question of whether an unborn has the same inalienable right to life as a born child.

"This debate is indeed historic," said Raddatz. "We have two Catholic candidates, first time, on a stage such as this. And I would like to ask you both to tell me what role your religion has played in your own personal views on abortion. Please talk about how you came to that decision. Talk about how your religion played a part in that? And please, this is such an emotional issue for so many people in this country, please talk personally about this if you could?"

So, let’s make sure we have this straight: Biden believes that abortion kills a beating heart — yet he wants it to be legal. Which begs the question: what other forms of murder does Biden want to legalize?

The Church teaches that, regarding a law permitting abortions, it is never licit to obey it, or to take part in a propaganda campaign in favor of such a law, or to vote for it (EV 73). Abortion is the intentional and direct killing of a innocent human being, and therefore it is a form of homicide.

EV = John Paul II, Evangelium Vitae (The Gospel of Life)

A well-formed Christian conscience does not permit one to vote for a political program or an individual law that contradicts the fundamental contents of faith and morals (CPL 4).

CPL = Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Doctrinal Notes on Some Questions Regarding the Participation of Catholics in Political Life

7
posted on 10/13/2012 7:51:25 AM PDT
by G Larry
(Which of Obama's policies do you think I'd support if he were white?)

The guy dropping the gas into the showers at the death camps was personally opposed to killing Jews. That “I’m personally opposed to this” defense didn’t cut it at the war crimes trials. They still were hung.

16
posted on 10/13/2012 8:11:12 AM PDT
by blueunicorn6
("A crack shot and a good dancer")

My point regarding biden and other politicians who claim to be practicing Catholics and weild Latin around as if it’s part of their every day parsing, is so large that all I can do is Yak

I can say this:

When anyone, Catholic, non Catholic, atheist or anything else claims that abortion is a complicated matter they are insane.

Any second grade child can tell you, as it is natural law, that going in, under any pretense, and killing a baby, no matter how old- one day or nine months- inside his or her mother’s womb, is murder.

It is not between a mother and a doctor.

The AMA is a pro choice organization. ANY practicing Catholic (politician or otherwise) is aware of this.

ANY parent (that means the dopey father from a one night stand) can tell you that a doctor who proposes killing an innocent child while in the- before the year 1973 in the USA- safest place known to man, is insane.

Joe Biden and his cohorts could call themselves Non-Practicing Catholics.

I have such a larger point than this, so I choose “blecch!”. But thank you for asking. I didn’t want NYer to think I was Blecching anyone but Joe Biden.

Either life begins at conception for everyone or it does not for anyone. You cannot believe that only for Catholic babies does life begin at conception and that, well, for others it is whatever they believe.

19
posted on 10/13/2012 8:23:48 AM PDT
by informavoracious
(I am a Sedevacantist. I believe the chair is EMPTY.)

They ARE expelled from their Church. The Pope says it and he is quoted in this thread.

Joe Biden cannot receive Communion without incurring more and more grave sin. He knows this, he learned it in 2nd grade during Communion prep class. This doesn’t change - it hasn’t in two thousand (2000) years and it’s not going to change now, no matter how many president, doctors and Supreme Court Justices say it has changed.

The difference we Americans have is that when we are banned from something legally,, we have police to enforce it. In the Chuch ew Have God to answer to. No amount of anything a bishop could do, if it were a democratic organization, can not trump what God does on the big Day.

I didn't expect Ryan to confront Biteme on his behavior but I did expect him to look at the audience and either wink or groan or smirk. Some facial expression to let them know he thought Biteme was making a fool out of himself. Maybe make that little sign where you twirl your finger around on the side of your head and cross your eyes when you think someone is crazy. Yeah, that would have been disrespectful but Biteme deserved it!

The kids with whom I was watchin g the debate, were so confused at Ryans non confrontational manner on this.

This wasthe only part of the debate where I was disappointed with Ryan. The only thing that I can offer is that perhaps he was tired by then because it was so near to the end of the debate. I have heard Ryan proclaim the rights of the unborn much more vigorously on ohr occasions. I figure that he was worn down by Joe's antics by then and eager to get to his closing statement, which was very strong.

28
posted on 10/13/2012 8:56:59 AM PDT
by afraidfortherepublic
(Joe Biden is reported to be seeking asylum in a foreign country so he does not have to debate Ryan.)

I didn't expect Ryan to confront Biteme on his behavior but I did expect him to look at the audience and either wink or groan or smirk. Some facial expression to let them know he thought Biteme was making a fool out of himself. Maybe make that little sign where you twirl your finger around on the side of your head and cross your eyes when you think someone is crazy. Yeah, that would have been disrespectful but Biteme deserved it!

Would not have been Presidential. However, he DID handle it and brilliantly...."Mr. Vice President - I know you're under duress......"

30
posted on 10/13/2012 9:09:32 AM PDT
by Mygirlsmom
(Obama will fight for Big Bird with one hand and flip the bird to America with the other.)

Biden, like Ted Kennedy, can evoke his Catholicism when ever it suits him politically, yet hypocritically support abortion contrary to the Church's teachings. Perhaps Biden needs a call from the likes of Cardinal Dolan to set him straight.

I was always galled by Ted Kennedy getting a full Catholic funeral despite being a staunch supporter of abortion and a moral reprobate. I think the Church would have been better not to give him a funeral to publicly demonstrate his self chosen excommunication.

Then why does he politely look away when his pro-abort colleagues promote abortion, even "late-term" abortion ("late-term" murder). Why does he turn away from his boss's own pro-abort beliefs, in the land where babies are mistakes?

In 1984, Mario Cuomo pioneered the argument that one may be personally opposed to abortion while supporting abortion rights.

Ever since, this convenient locution has become a staple for countless Democratic politicians, particularly Catholic ones. It is Vice President Joe Bidens view and was Senator John Kerrys stance when he ran for president in 2004.

Cuomos argument was a mess. For instance, in order to buttress his argument, he touted the (alleged) refusal of American Catholic bishops to forcefully denounce slavery. The bishops werent hypocrites; they were realists, Cuomo explained. They offered a measured attempt to balance moral truths against political realities.

So, ultimately, we have Mario Cuomo to thank, in part, for the rationale many catholics use when they vote for the democrats.

"The actual position of the Catholic Church is that any law legalizing the killing of an unborn child is an unjust law that violates the natural law and is, therefore, no law at all. Vice President Bidens church teaches that it is not acceptable even to obey such laws let alone support them as part of a political campaign."

But then if the law did not legalize abortion who commits the crime and what should be the penalty?

35
posted on 10/13/2012 9:52:29 AM PDT
by ex-snook
(without forgiveness there is no Christianity)

We all know that Biden has a history of saying very unwise things, that he seems not to be able to remember the official line of the Administration, and that there are YouTube videos showing him speaking and acting in a way that makes him appear to be drunk. We also know that he has had brain surgery.

After that debate the other night, my clinical spidey-sense started tingling. Inappropriate affect—which is to say, the display of bizarre emotional responses—is one of the first symptoms of dementia. As I saw Biden laughing at the prospect of a nuclear Iran blowing Israel off the map, I wondered if we were seeing dementia. I understand that he’s never been a bright man and that he was a sell-out, a lib, and a hypocrite long before he had any brain problems, but this is getting worse. He’s nuts.

Last night the John Batchelor show had a professor of psychiatry from Stanford who said much the same thing. He cited Biden’s long history of what he called “inadequate reality testing” (self-deception) and inappropriate emotional displays, and he too concluded that something organic is going on with Biden.

So the question is: to what extent do we think a man with early dementia and some kind of organic brain damage is really responsible for his words and decisions? If he speaks and behaves in a hypocritical fashion about his Catholic faith, incurring strong words from Catholic bishops, I’m kind of starting to wonder if he’s just too brain-damaged to know what he’s doing.

So the question is: to what extent do we think a man with early dementia and some kind of organic brain damage is really responsible for his words and decisions?

One additional "we also know" - that Obama and Biden are protected by the mainstream media and they can do no wrong.

Biden is one heartbeat away from becoming president. I truly believe that those who tuned into the VP debate may well have reflected on that notion. Those who missed it, have seen enough extracts on various news programs to draw the same conclusion. We need to have faith in the American people. We're not fools and the days when the media could pull the wool over our eyes, are long gone. Two more debates and then it's on to victory!

The kids with whom I was watchin g the debate, were so confused at Ryans non confrontational manner on this.

Gretchen Carlson offered some insight into this behavior on the Friday edition of Fox & Friends. Like Paul Ryan, she is also a midwesterner. She said that his behavior is typical of how midwesterners are raised - to show politeness.

I have heard Ryan proclaim the rights of the unborn much more vigorously on ohr occasions.

Recall that between Biden and Martha Raddatz, he was constantly interrupted. Biden's mannerisms were so distracting that many viewers missed some very important points made by Ryan. From the transcript:

RYAN: And then they put this new Obamacare board in charge of cutting Medicare each and every year in ways that will lead to denied care for current seniors. This board, by the way, it's 15 people, the president's supposed to appoint them next year. And not one of them even has to have medical training. And Social Security? If we don't shore up Social Security, when we run out of the IOUs, when the program goes bankrupt, a 25 percent across-the-board benefit cut kicks in on current seniors in the middle of their retirement. We're going to stop that from happening.

I hope Romney has an opportunity to drive those points home in one of the upcoming debates.

Too bad that in the debate— Ryan was not able to call Biden out on his bogus pro-abort version of Catholicism. Ryan would have blown the election if he had and its a shame. Such is political discourse today

Oh, Mario, with whom I am well acquainted, is as scandalous and heretical as any of these dopey non practicing Catholic politicians is much at fault, but by now at least people should be thinking about things, considering whether a politician is the one to follow or th Catechism.

by now at least people should be thinking about things, considering whether a politician is the one to follow or the Catechism.

You must have missed my other post, A day of judgment for liberal bishops. The majority of catholics I know (and probably you, as well) are ignorant of their faith. Moreover, they are 'liberated' and will not be dictated to by the Catholic Church. Yet, they consider themselves to be "practicing" catholics and attend mass on Sundays. Then there are the A & P catholics who show up at church on Ash Wednesday, Palm Sunday, Easter and Christmas. They too consider themselves "catholic". We consider them to be "cultural" catholics who were born into a catholic family and were baptized as infants. After First Communion, they were on their own (especially after the bishops left the decision to receive the Sacrament of Confirmation, up to the individual.

I am sure you do this.

When I joined my current parish 8+ years ago, I was asked to develop a religious education program and serve as its director. This was intended for the children but, in the process, I discovered something quite interesting about the parents. They too, were ignorant of their faith. I have since been replaced by a liberalized nun and been asked to take over the parish bulletin. As we enter the Year of Faith, I am using the bulletin to educate the parents. Each week, I include an article of faith, keeping it as simple as possible.

BTW, while serving as Director for Religious Education, one parent asked to enroll her 13 y/o daughter in the program. After learning that the child had been baptized, received her First Communion before the Sacrament of Reconciliation (never received - the Albany Diocese is ultra liberal). The dilemma - how to compensate for so much lost time. Having personally been educated decades ago through the Baltimore Catechism, I picked up two copies and worked one on one with her throughout the year. By May, she was ready to receive the Sacrament of Reconciliation. Ironically, in the process, another mother saw the BC on a pew, read through a few pages and was astounded at how much she did not know about her faith! Since then, it has been a personal mission to use whatever means available to educate these parents in their faith since they are the primary educators of their children.

As an aside, I maintain a "catholic ping list" for those interested in following important news stories. I noticed that you are not on that list. Please let me know if you would like to be added. I just posted an article on the Catholic Swing Vote from the Pew Forum and pinged the list. You might find these articles informative and we would value your input, too.

Lastly, I am a member of the parish of St. Ann. Love your freeper name!

I heard Gretchen say that, and she’s absolutely right. All in all, I thought Ryan comported himself quite well. I would have liked to have slapped Biden and Raddutz silly, however, but I wasn’t raise to do that either.

49
posted on 10/13/2012 5:10:59 PM PDT
by afraidfortherepublic
(Joe Biden is reported to be seeking asylum in a foreign country so he does not have to debate Ryan.)

Half, if not more, Catholics do not understand this problem. They think the way Biden does. Ryan knows it.

Correct, and once again the responsibility for this lies squarely at the feet of the American episcopate who for 40+ years stood silent while the left took over the church by replacing traditional catholic social teaching with the Marxist theory of "social justice". This is what allows CINOs to comfort themselves into believing they are still "good Catholics".

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