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View Poll Results: Which is likely to to happen first for same sex couples: marriages or civil unions?

Re: Which is most likely to happen: same sex marriages or civil unions?

Originally Posted by LuckyDan

Not sure what you mean, but there is no discrimination when it comes to SSM. We all have the same right to marry one person of the opposite sex.

Earlier in the thread I posted stats that ballots dont have to matter, for example interracil marriage was made legal when 72% of the country was against it. Currently I think only 62% are against gay marriage.

And yes please save the spin, it is discrimination, saying otherwise is just dishonest.
Blacks had the same rights marry to just not whites, that was discrimination,
Blacks had the right to drink from water fountains just not certain ones, that was discrimination.
Gay marriage is very much about equal rights and ending discrimination.

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Re: Which is most likely to happen: same sex marriages or civil unions?

Originally Posted by digsbe

I think civil unions will happen. It would be wrong to go against state laws and illegally force all states to redefine marriage to include homosexual relationships.

Its been done before and isnt wrong when it is establishing equal rights and ending discrimination. If something is unconstitutional it isnt illegal at all to force states to end discrimination and practice equal rights.

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Re: Which is most likely to happen: same sex marriages or civil unions?

Originally Posted by LuckyDan

Well. Strike while the iron is hot, I suppose. We are in the midst of a spirited culture war. Could be. Do you think there is enough strength on the right to amend the constitution? I'm not sure.

I just don't see this issue not being resolved in this decade. My generation is overwhelming supporting of SSM, and support will only grow overtime with people who currently do not support it.

Originally Posted by LuckyDan

So you frame it as a women's rights issue. Cute trick. It does leave homosexual men out of the picture, though, doesn't it?

A woman has the same right to marry a person of the opposite sex as a man has. Equal. No unfair discrimination.

I'm not framing it as a women's rights issue, the same thing applies to men, why can a women marry a man, and not a man. It's the same logic, and that is in violation of the 14th amendment equal protection clause. It discriminates against gender, and by that also discriminates against LGBT people.

And using the argument that I have the same right to marry a person of the opposites sex is dishonest. I will never have the desire to marry a person of the opposite sex, nor will I form a family with the person of the opposite sex. It's like what Centrist said, black people had the same right to marry as white people, just people of their own race. It's the same logic, and with that kind of precedent I think once it hits the SCOTUS it will only be a matter of time.

Re: Which is most likely to happen: same sex marriages or civil unions?

Originally Posted by Redress

I don't think DOMA will survive more than a couple more years, and once that is gone, it is basically all over.

I agree. It really is just a matter of actually getting it to the SCOTUS. Most likely the current court will strike down DOMA (going off of the Justices' histories here), although it isn't a guarantee and it most likely won't be unanimous.

I think it is possible though that someone in Congress may try to get something passed to preempt such a decision if they see DOMA going down, but they don't have the support to actually pass an Amendment and it is likely that whatever they do put up won't be enough, won't get passed, or just won't pass in time.

"A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

Re: Which is most likely to happen: same sex marriages or civil unions?

Originally Posted by Your Star

I just don't see this issue not being resolved in this decade. My generation is overwhelming supporting of SSM, and support will only grow overtime with people who currently do not support it.

I'm not framing it as a women's rights issue, the same thing applies to men, why can a women marry a man, and not a man. It's the same logic, and that is in violation of the 14th amendment equal protection clause. It discriminates against gender, and by that also discriminates against LGBT people.

And using the argument that I have the same right to marry a person of the opposites sex is dishonest. I will never have the desire to marry a person of the opposite sex, nor will I form a family with the person of the opposite sex. It's like what Centrist said, black people had the same right to marry as white people, just people of their own race. It's the same logic, and with that kind of precedent I think once it hits the SCOTUS it will only be a matter of time.

What's with the "dishonest" word? We don't agree. Fine. Doesn't make me a liar. If you don't want to marry a man, you don't have to.

Has equal protection ever been applied to sexual preference? I don't know. It will have to be to apply the 14th, and to bring your analogy to race in line.

Re: Which is most likely to happen: same sex marriages or civil unions?

Originally Posted by LuckyDan

What's with the "dishonest" word? We don't agree. Fine. Doesn't make me a liar. If you don't want to marry a man, you don't have to.

Has equal protection ever been applied to sexual preference? I don't know. It will have to be to apply the 14th, and to bring your analogy to race in line.

Good luck with that.

And a white man had every right to marry a white woman and a black woman had every right to marry a black man, so why did the Lovings have to have a marriage? The right to live together without being thrown in jail, sure. But the SCOTUS stated that they had a right to be married. Why? Sexual preferences are just a choice, right? Nothing ingrained about who someone is attracted to is there?

The discrimination is on sex, not sexuality. And yes, Equal Protection actually applies to both sex and sexuality at different levels. But since the discrimination is actually against sex, not sexuality, then the more strict level of scrutiny, middle tier, should be used to evaluate any case of same sex marriage equality. Two homosexuals can, technically, get married. A homosexual man can marry a homosexual woman, just as a black man could marry any black woman he wanted before Loving v VA. The issue is that people are attracted to who they are attracted to, and the government should not be preventing people to enter into a legal contract (marriage) because of the sex of the two people involved, anymore than they were right to prevent people from entering into the contract based on the race of the two people involved.

"A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt