Why my mind is closing towards Capitalism

I love that analogy on beer since it makes money seem like the main thing that matters in life, well for you at least. Happiness is much better then
money, rest assured.

I think it's easy to say how socialism has failed in the past because it never really was socialism. The government leaders aren't suppose to have
more money.

Capitalism also is bound to fail, except of course if it's regulated! Then, wasn't capitalism based on free markets?
Oh gee, well that doesn't work, doh. Not to mention how it's a system that feeds on scarcity and exploitation.

The OP is right, we NEED change.
I'm all in for the stark trek way! A world where honor, integrity, exploring, refining of the spirit and the intellect is what life is about.

Originally posted by AwakeinNM
Boy, I got a bug to launch photoshop and make some nice infographics for all of you who loooove socialism.

These graphics are simplified of course - easy to understand. Wealth in these graphics I have represented by how full your beer glass is. Beer =
Wealth. Okay?

Here is capitalism in its ideal form (it is not in its ideal form in this country right now. We have crony capitalism/fascism at the moment, and that
needs to be changed, quickly. I did not make a graphic for fascism.

Anyway: In this graphic, you have a government that is small, performing the functions spelled out int he constitution, using as little money as
practical do do it. Citizens are as well-off as their ambition allows.

Capitalism:

Citizen A paid attention in school, went to college and got a degree and is making a decent living as an Engineer, maybe - like most folks.

Citizen B decided it would be more fun to smoke weed behind the school rather than go to class, so his grades weren't good enough to get into
college. He's finally cleaned up his act but he's still only driving a garbage truck because it's been long enough since his last DUI.

Citizen C worked his way through business school and earned an MBA. As an entrepreneur, he started a garbage collection business. Citizen B works
for him - unless he falls off the wagon again.

Citizen D went to Art School and is working as a painter. He doesn't make a killing at it, but he loves what he does. This was his choice and he's
content with his life. Plus he has a hot artsy-fartsy girlfriend - that always helps a little.

So you see, everyone has the same opportunity (more or less) to make something of themselves. Some are more fortunate, some less in the beginning,
but with hard work and ambition, anyone can achieve their goals in life.

This is where your thinking is wrong. The guy running the business is not any more valuable than the guys driving the trucks. If the pay was
determined by the desirability of the job, the less desirable job = the most pay, then the guy running the operation, sitting in the AC when he's
not sneaking off to the golf course, would make less money than the driver. It is time to stop valuing people on their ability to extract money from
other people and actually start weighing their actual contribution to society. A good car salesman would be one who pointed you to the right vehicle
instead of one who will hound you for extras you don't need, or the highest possible sales price or the highest interest rate he can get you to
accept. The world really sucks under buyer beware.

I don't think that anyone who advocates socialism believes that merit shouldn't be a consideration in people's pay. Thus the beer glass crap is
just bs propaganda. With 5 glasses it would be more like 40,45,50,55,60 weighting. They believe that people who give the most value to society should
earn more. They believe those that put in the effort should be able to live confortable lives. They believe that everyone is expected to contribute in
whatever way they can. Thus you wouldn't be supporting a bunch of deadbeats like is always insinuated. For example: Inventors would get a base pay
and bonuses based on their discoveries. Factory workers would have still incentive to produce. Bill Gates would still be a multi-multi-millionaire,
but not a billionaire. they believe any changeover would give credit where past credit is due, meaning Bill Gates would still enjoy his grand
lifestyle, albeit with a few less homes, etc. I do not think it wise to let anyone dominate so many of the resources we all fight over.

Bottom line is that we have to legislate against greed so we can start moving forward as a society. If you are not with society, then you are against
it. It won't take long to find out who is who, once it is all put in motion. There are some freshly prepared FEMA camps for you folks.

TextFor these reasons we call for social ownership and democratic control of productive resources, for a guarantee to all of the right to participate
in societal production, and to a fair share of society's product, in accordance with individual needs.

Hey op, and everyone.
I think that you`d like the book "23 things they don't tell you about capitalism". I ran into it today, and saw your thread by chance. look it up
in youtube, i think there's an audio version.

and yeah, too much sweet talk and "free market will fix it" on the internets nowadays.

Originally posted by petrus4
The psychopaths will never allow equality in fact, however, because they psychologically need elitism, which is its' opposite. They simply try and
call the system that they offer egalitarian, so that non-psychopaths, who want equality, will accept them.

I'm right down with you!!
I've made a thread in the past blaming elitism for so many of the world's problems.

Originally posted by METACOMET
Do humanity a favor. When forming your world view, don't ignore the principle of individual freedom.

I'm not, believe me. Truthfully, if it wasn't for the population being what it is at this point, I'd want to live entirely alone. Unfortunately,
that no longer seems possible, given how overcrowded the world is becoming. So I have begun to think that what I perhaps need to do is find a
positive group of people, at least if I can.

If you risk nothing for liberty and prefer your favored status quo as security, what do you need any liberty for?

edit on 1-2-2012 by
Sachyriel because: nyeh nyeh

I'd rather not risk socialism, dude. Don't post my quotes out of context and spin my words. As for taking a risk for liberty, I have a lot of gear
saved up for that occasion, it it ever goes down. So don't lecture me about liberty.

There is nothing hypothetical about China or the Soviet Union - look into their history.

If anything, the IDEAL socialism - the one that is sold by people like Obama - is the hypothetical. Notice they never really come out and say what it
is they want to achieve? Why is that? If it's so great, why don't they just say it... "We want a socialist country". They can't say it because
socialism is the LAST thing we want to move toward.

I think he can't come out and say it because the media has convinced everyone what a terrible word it is. I think everyone agrees that a more utopian
economic structure would be beneficial. there main argument against is that it won't work. i think it will work once people are educated to exactly
what it means instead of being scared off by beer glasses.

Text Bottom line is that we have to legislate against greed so we can start moving forward as a society.

Who could argue with that?

That's right - legislate everything. Legislate against greed, against hate, against oil, against thinking this way or that way about this that or the
other thing. Legislate morality or the lack of it. Legislate legislate.

Do you even hear yourself when you try to think?

Legislating does not eradicate. You cannot make human nature illegal.

Here's an example scenario to illustrate your point: Mayor Bloomberg is fed up with the rat epidemic in New York City. The citizens of NY are
calling for action. So, mayor B signs legislation banning rats from New York City.

There is nothing hypothetical about China or the Soviet Union - look into their history.

If anything, the IDEAL socialism - the one that is sold by people like Obama - is the hypothetical. Notice they never really come out and say what it
is they want to achieve? Why is that? If it's so great, why don't they just say it... "We want a socialist country". They can't say it because
socialism is the LAST thing we want to move toward.

I think he can't come out and say it because the media has convinced everyone what a terrible word it is. I think everyone agrees that a more utopian
economic structure would be beneficial. there main argument against is that it won't work. i think it will work once people are educated to exactly
what it means instead of being scared off by beer glasses.

I think it WON'T work. I KNOW it won't. Look at the power concentrated in Washington and Wall Street right NOW. Do you actually think that
politicians and bankers and heads of industry are going to suddenly step aside and turn over their power to the people under socialism?

Originally posted by fuchow
Hey op, and everyone.
I think that you`d like the book "23 things they don't tell you about capitalism". I ran into it today, and saw your thread by chance. look it up
in youtube, i think there's an audio version.

and yeah, too much sweet talk and "free market will fix it" on the internets nowadays.

You can spin anything in your favor if you're a good enough BS artist.

Not exactly. I prefer a libertarian socailism. But if someone is raped or is too poor to pay for an abortion then yes I do feel that society has a
responsibility to meet their needs.

TextI guess you support Feminism

Yes but only to the point that women are treated as equals. To be honest most femanazi's make me sick. In socialism there is no need for charity or
'affirmative action' type programs becauase everyone is treated fairly and equally.

Textyou support labor unions in prisons

I think that prisoners should have rights yes.

But to chip away at minor issues like this isnt a good argument against socialism. Capitalism has many issues.

Originally posted by AwakeinNM
There! All the rats are magically gone, right?

Use your head.

No the rats are not magically gone. But now businesses and slumlords will be forced to take care of the problem that affects all the cities residents
(through spreading disease and dirtiness).

Why didnt the slumlords and businesses do anyhting before? Because it was too expensive, and it didnt bother them in their nice houses and apts out
of the city...ie they were TOO GREEDY. So in this case, legislation against greed was necessary.

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