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Re: Pacers Sixers Post Game Thread Even the Crowd Was Asleep

Look, I'm not one of the darksiders who thinks the Pacers are doomed to lose the ECF in 5 games. I think the team isn't super motivated at this point in the long regular season, but I think that the effort will look much better once the playoffs roll around.

But the attitude that the win is all that matters is silly, in my opinion. When the team loses one can still learn from things that were done right, just as one should criticize poor play in a win. Being results-oriented doesn't tend to be condusive to improvement.

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Re: Pacers Sixers Post Game Thread Even the Crowd Was Asleep

I'll focus on the positives.

1. Paul and Lance got to the free throw line repeatedly and knocked them down.
2. Rebounding. They pounded the Sixers on the glass.
3. They kept their turnovers at 15 and forced 18.
4. Ian Mahinmi played as good if not better than Andrew Bynum. His energy was a big lift. That block at the rim was a huge play.

Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.

Re: Pacers Sixers Post Game Thread Even the Crowd Was Asleep

How dare Philly be playing loose to try avoid going down in infamy, well besides the fact that Indiana nearly doubled them up at the line....

EVERYBODY PANIC!

"Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

"And David put his hand in the bag and took out a stone and slung it. And it struck the Philistine on the head and he fell to the ground. Amen. "
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Re: Pacers Sixers Post Game Thread Even the Crowd Was Asleep

Look, I'm not one of the darksiders who thinks the Pacers are doomed to lose the ECF in 5 games. I think the team isn't super motivated at this point in the long regular season, but I think that the effort will look much better once the playoffs roll around.

But the attitude that the win is all that matters is silly, in my opinion. When the team loses one can still learn from things that were done right, just as one should criticize poor play in a win. Being results-oriented doesn't tend to be condusive to improvement.

I never said that just because we won there aren't things that need to be improved. In fact my post said the exact opposite.

My entire point is that we should at least be glad we got the Win despite the "eye test" still coming back inconclusive.

Instead, we just gripe about not winning by enough points, as if the Win doesn't count unless we cover the spread.

I'm not disagreeing with those who say we aren't playing up to our potential.

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Re: Pacers Sixers Post Game Thread Even the Crowd Was Asleep

Interesting. I didn't see tonight's win as anything other than missing shots. Pacers got plenty of good shots, but just couldn't get them to fall. Any other year, this would be a gut-wrenching loss to a bad team, but the defense was there and kept the B&G in the game until they could make a couple of shots. This seemed very much like a Detroit [circa 2004] win.

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Re: Pacers Sixers Post Game Thread Even the Crowd Was Asleep

Hopefully Bynum continues to progress and gets enough conditioning to handle 20+ minutes per night at the end of the regular season (assuming we still need to clinch HCA throughout the playoffs) and especially the playoffs. Roy and West need reliable help inside.

Looking ahead, hopefully Frank starts preaching about "championship level passing". Without it, a 2nd round exit is about the most the Pacers can hope for (unless they are just coasting, which I don't really believe). 18 second possessions with lots of quality passes with purpose would be better than long stretches of dribbling and isos leading to poor shots / turnovers.

Re: Pacers Sixers Post Game Thread Even the Crowd Was Asleep

Didn't see the game, but looking at the box score, more than anything it looks like a crappy shooting night. 38% is just bad. Philly hitting 43% is too high as well, but we also only gave up 90 points so that is good. Looks like the Pacers took control in the second and just controlled it from then on?

Interesting to see, while Ian has a great line, Turner shot worse. Could have been a team thing as everyone shot crappy basically, but the two games with Bynum, Turner has been very efficient.

Re: Pacers Sixers Post Game Thread Even the Crowd Was Asleep

Let's say a team was going to win 60 and lose 22. Would it be more likely that these last 4 games would be found in that group of 60 wins or that group of 22 losses? That's also a legit, fact-based statistical view of the situation. You don't get #1 seeds losing games to Philly...unless you are making them up by winning in Houston, Dallas or perhaps Memphis next Saturday. The most expected outcome of the last 4 games would be 4-0, or perhaps 3-1 might edge it out for most probable barely. But it's still dwarfs the odds that a 60 win team would lose 2,3, or 4 games. So "Yay, 4-0" doesn't carry much weight.

I understand that you are probably coming at it from the "don't look a gift horse in the mouth" angle and in that regard I can agree. You gotta get wins regardless so in that way they got the job done.

But we are also trying to evaluate possible future outcomes against more challenging opponents and 4-0 in that set of games is not impressive when the games were struggles against tanking teams. I did think they looked more coordinated in the Detroit game, specifically on offense, but tonight they returned to a lot of junk ball with terrible passing options and lots of iso attacks. They lived off of Lance or Paul just beating their man straight up.

Look at all the awkward passes to Luis or Ian or West (or from West) that had them trying to catch the ball in terrible position to make a play. Look at how often they continued to attack double teams head on rather than rotating the ball.

Heck, that last jump ball with Hill when he got tied up at HC, he had Turner alone in the corner well before he was pinned down and he chose to hold onto the ball till he got stuffed...and then lost the tip as well.

Sure there were moments of quality, a blip or two of decent 2 man plays that would free a guy for an open jumper. But for the most part they were severely jammed up on offense and looked almost summer league confused. I'm honestly stumped as to the "why" and I sure thought maybe they sorted it out against Detroit when clearly they hadn't.

The game itself just sucked. MCWilliams took a ton of bad shots, Young hit a ton of bad shots, and the Pacers offense was even more putrid. It almost looked like 2 teams both on the take trying to outdo each other to avoid accidentally winning. How else do you explain TWO OOB fouls at the end of a game like this? At that point Philly still had a shot to win if they didn't hand over 2 free points for no good reason. They refused to let Indy lose.

I think guys are trying hard, I just think that effort is not very well synched up. I like the team still, and some bad play is never going to have me dump on guys like Roy or West or PG. These are our boys, they aren't bringing shame to the city here, they just aren't playing the sport very well as a team right now. It's painful to watch but I'm not angry at them.

Re: Pacers Sixers Post Game Thread Even the Crowd Was Asleep

How dare Philly be playing loose to try avoid going down in infamy, well besides the fact that Indiana nearly doubled them up at the line....

EVERYBODY PANIC!

Dude, unless "loose" is a monster euphemism for "total, shameful, garbage basketball" then we didn't watch the same game. I thought the Sixers looked even worse tonight than they did a few days ago. Just some dreadful plays by them at both ends. I saw Sixers lost after hard doubles when they went to recover. But the Pacers just had no idea how to take advantage of most of those mistakes.

Re: Pacers Sixers Post Game Thread Even the Crowd Was Asleep

I understand that you are probably coming at it from the "don't look a gift horse in the mouth" angle and in that regard I can agree. You gotta get wins regardless so in that way they got the job done.

That's really what I've been trying to say.

I don't at all disagree that the team is struggling in many regards.

But despite that we've won 4 games in a row and 'righted the ship' so to speak after a BAD four game skid.

I'm not saying that everything is magically better and we're unstoppable or anything. But I do think that we need to look at the big picture here and say to ourselves, "Good thing we managed to find a way to get these W's, even though they were ugly and we weren't playing our best ball, because they are going to be vital in the playoff seeding."

But instead, many people just like to complain about the WAY we won.

It's almost as if the Pacers playing poorly and yet still finding a way in "Winning Time(TM)" to gut out a victory is an affront to their sensibilities, or somehow offensive to them.

That's what I just don't understand. And quite frankly, it just puts a damper on the board, in my humble opinion.

I have no problem with folks talking about areas of needed improvement.

But the constant "So and so is GARBAGE. Why didn't we dump them!?" - "We're not a contender if we don't beat so and so by 40 points" - "When will our guys start CARING again, they are lazy, good for nothing bums."

I can only speak for myself personally here, but good grief do those posts get old.

We won! It counts as a +1 in the "W" column.

When we get to the playoffs, we will have plenty of time to scrutinize each and every game with a microscope. The team will either put forth winning efforts and achieve their goals, or they won't and we'll sit here and have lively discussions as to why we think it happened.

But right now, we just need to solidify our seeding. So let's be happy when we get closer to achieving that, yea?

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Re: Pacers Sixers Post Game Thread Even the Crowd Was Asleep

very pleased with mahinmi. he was really a positive factor tonight. i want all three centers healthy and available for the playoffs. if we got all 3available for us- it will be a great advantage to have the best big man rotation in the league.

Re: Pacers Sixers Post Game Thread Even the Crowd Was Asleep

that's just silly. I don't know why some of you think post game threads should consist solely of "yay go team!"

glad we are keeping a reasonable buffer between us and Miami so we still are in a good position if/when we start playing better. but to act like simply winning a game is all that matters is just nonsense and setting yourself up to be disappointed.

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Re: Pacers Sixers Post Game Thread Even the Crowd Was Asleep

Our offense and particularly our shooting was a bit of a blooper reel tonight. Contrasted with the Sixers hitting everything until crunch time, it was like watching surgery without any good looking people holding the scalpel. The best moment of the game wasn't Mullen's kicking the ball in frustration and getting the technical foul. But his teammate MCW halfheartedly kicking the already-kicked ball back across the court away from the players in a second act of defiance. I've watched this play about seven times and I can't tell if MCW is kind of mad, just being supportive, or really into kicking things.

Ian Report: He's back and the IR is back. Come at me, bruv! Though Mahinmi does lose points for those really bad free throws in the first half, he showed why this team should be at the top of the defensive standings with his shot blocking and maneuvering. Frank put Scola on Mullens and Ian on Thad, and though TY made some shots (because he's really good), Ian still managed to defend the paint. It was against 10-day dudes, but you could tell the second unit was trusting each other a lot more than the starters as a group, and I believe part of that is Ian's veteran (!) presence in his well-defined role. I'm glad for him that he found some touch around the basket and did NOT lose any more teeth on that vicious Wroten drive. I do want to give Lance a wag of my finger for not only throwing that terrible pass in the second quarter, but shaking his head at Mahinmi. If only he was as nice to the French as he was to the Irish. 'A-'

Re: Pacers Sixers Post Game Thread Even the Crowd Was Asleep

i sure hope you can toss the same facts after we play good teams instead of sixers. win all you want against celtics, sixers and pistons. it just doesn't change the fact that we are not playing well. it worries me and the other so called "pessimists" on this board. if we play like the way we are playing for the next 6 games, we will be arguing other things.

Re: Pacers Sixers Post Game Thread Even the Crowd Was Asleep

Didn't see the game, but looking at the box score, more than anything it looks like a crappy shooting night. 38% is just bad. Philly hitting 43% is too high as well, but we also only gave up 90 points so that is good. Looks like the Pacers took control in the second and just controlled it from then on?

Interesting to see, while Ian has a great line, Turner shot worse. Could have been a team thing as everyone shot crappy basically, but the two games with Bynum, Turner has been very efficient.

Still want to see Ian/Bynum front court.

it was actually a close game most of the 2nd half. we just couldnt put them away early. pulled away in the final 3 minutes or so. offense shot something like 25% in the second half. horrible.

Re: Pacers Sixers Post Game Thread Even the Crowd Was Asleep

This next game against the Knicks will be very telling about this Pacers team. Knicks are on a 6 game winning streak. Starting to look like a team that is making playoff push.

no, theyve just played 6 bottom feeders. its really a deceiving win streak (although yes they still count). theyve done this 2 or 3 times vs bottom feeders and fall back to earth when they play a good team. we need to handle this game from tip to final whistle.

Re: Pacers Sixers Post Game Thread Even the Crowd Was Asleep

PG's shot selection is just so bad at times. Anytime we have the ball at the end of the quarter, he hogs the entire shot clock and then forces some ugly shot/iso/drive that either clanks of the rim or bricks off the backboard. Then he tops it off with some complaint to the ref. Everyone else on the team just stands around in this situation because they know they aren't getting the ball. We need to get more creative in those situations. I've just really soured on PG's offense game recently. He's not Kobe Bryant yet and there's no reason for him to force up so much garbage on a team as talented as the Pacers.

I said in the Bynum thread that I thought Bynum would be better than Hibbert for the rest of the year when he played, and last night sure reinforced my belief. Henry Sims was not allowing him to get into scoring position. Sad.

Lance was a stud and was the main reason we won the game. Hill had some clutch baskets.

Lavoy Allen should have been playing over Scola last night, but since Vogel is stubborn and has absolutely no rotational creativity whatsoever, there was obviously zero chance that would happen. Let's see, we just traded for a new PF who in the one game where he got big minutes for us this year went 6-6 and put up 13 points with 4 boards. How do we reward him for his efforts? We give him ZERO minutes over the next two games so that we can play a guy who has looked like garbage for the last couple of months. I say that as someone who is a big Scola fan, but it just sadly is what it is. Vogel has obviously been phenomenal for this organization, but it's not like he's Red Auerbach and beyond criticism. A HC of his caliber should have better adaptive skills and take advantage of his bench resources. Both Allen and Copeland are probably better than Scola right now, but we all know we won't see them play unless Scola is out for injury. Scola is playing because of the name on his uni, pure and simple.

Re: Pacers Sixers Post Game Thread Even the Crowd Was Asleep

i sure hope you can toss the same facts after we play good teams instead of sixers. win all you want against celtics, sixers and pistons. it just doesn't change the fact that we are not playing well. it worries me and the other so called "pessimists" on this board. if we play like the way we are playing for the next 6 games, we will be arguing other things.

Yes, our next stretch of games might go differently if we keep playing at this level.

BUT, even if we aren't playing 'great' - but we manage to find a way to win those games... Are we still going to throw the team under the bus?

That's what I just don't get.

We haven't been playing great. We haven't been facing good competition. I understand that. But we've won 4 games in a row. We're maintaining and expanding our slim lead on the #1 seed.

*IF* our play slacks and we lose to higher quality competition, I'll be the first one to be frustrated and wish we would fix some things.

But we're not there yet. The games have yet to be played and already everyone is predicting doom for the upcoming stretch.

Just wish the team would get the benefit of the doubt around here more. I think they've earned it.

Re: Pacers Sixers Post Game Thread Even the Crowd Was Asleep

that's just silly. I don't know why some of you think post game threads should consist solely of "yay go team!"

glad we are keeping a reasonable buffer between us and Miami so we still are in a good position if/when we start playing better. but to act like simply winning a game is all that matters is just nonsense and setting yourself up to be disappointed.

The bold is exactly why I feel like that. I don't like how we are playing, but I have confidence we will turn it around at the end of the season or beginning of the postseason.