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I was wondering if anyone had some advice for recording vocals with effects. I use audacity, and I am not sure exactly what I need to use, but I know I need something. I can get the reverb and chorus effects ok, but I need to use something to even my vocals out when I hit the higher notes, as sometimes they even hurt my own ears to listen to, lol.

Does anyone have experience in using Audacity? Do I need to use compression, hard limiter, or High pass limiter? I have tried using some of them and just have not found the correct mixture I need yet. I do not know what the settings on the compressor are supposed to be set to. Or is there a seperate compressor that is not too expensive that interfaces with audacity and a Berringer mixer that you are aware of?

I usually use an Ibanez troubadour amp with an AKG mic, and feed that into the Berringer, into the computer.

I used to have this problem until I changed the mic. I rented several until I found one that didn't sizzle on the top. Could be the mic isn't the best for your voice. Some of the more budget-oriented mics aren't great for females with bright or silvery voices.

Plus I use a little mic techique - don't sing directly into the mic, have it on the side pointing towards your mouth with a good pop screen between you and it, and turn your head slightly away from the mic when singing top notes as well. So for example, my set-up is the mic is on my left side, pointing towards my left cheek/mouth with the pop screen. as I go up to top notes I may turn slightly to the right.

I don't typically use compression on my voice, just a little pinch of reverb. Most recording software also have automation settings where you can change volumes on a track as you go through it.

Others may have more expertise to offer, just sharing what I have learned so far

Thanks alot for your advice. I am willing to give any technique a try. I am not sure it is the high notes that is my worst problem, it seems to be the hard notes I sing. Maybe I just do not use enough control on those, I don't know. I think I have always had the same problem.

I use Audacity for some recordings and also have a Beheringer mixer that I use. First off you may want to think about trying a different mic as each voice is suited to different mics and settings. Try different makes and models till you find your fav.Control is very important and a lot of singers have poor mic technique. Here are some tips.Do not sing too close to any mic as it will pick up lots of distortion and breathing noises especially on the big notes.I cringe when I see so called pros on TV kissing or trying to eat the mic and holding their fingers over the grill.Use the mic as a volume control by varying the distance it is from your mouth. Closer for low quiet notes and further away for the more powerful or high notes. Just move your head back or forward to vary the distance. Never put it to your lips keep at least 2-3 inches away.Always record dry with no effects from your Beheringer. It is easy to add and alter these FX post record but impossible to remove if the recording has them already and are set wrong.You say you use an amp and then feed that signal into your desk. Can you not just plug your mic straight into the mixer or is this a pre amp. Using an amp first could be your prob.It is so difficult however to give best advice as I really need to see and hear your setup to accurately see what is needed and adjust settings.Plane fares from Edinburgh to Michigan are so expensive. LOL

Re Audacity there are different versions available I use a couple. In version 1.2.6. there are some interesting settings on Gverb that can give good effects rather than just echo or delay. However the settings have to be played about with till you get what you are looking for. The most important parts are the room size and the amount of dry signal left unprocessed it is expressed as a percentage. I tend to put that setting fairly high it sounds more natural. The room size should be set not too large usually about one third up the scale. A good tip is to use low settings which can be repeated or gradually increased till you get what you want.Very important... When setting up the record level make sure it is set very low otherwise the signal is too harsh and will have lots of hiss. You can always amplify a weak signal after recording.Final tip save often so you have something to fall back on in case you completely mess up and use UNDO/REDO and repeat till you get what you want.

Oh one more thing. When you find a setting on the various fx and gizmos that you like take a note of all the numbers and positions etc for future ref. I have a doc. file that I keep updating with all my settings for various projects saved. It is a good starting point otherwise you are experimenting each time you record something.

1. Mic technique - learn to pull the mic away when you sing the louder notes. Just about all singers learn to do this at some point. You should also learn to control your voice so that you have to do that only a little bit.

2. I'm wondering if there isn't some distortion somewhere along the line since you're using an amp instead of plugging straight into the Behringer.

3. There are most likely several compressors (starting about about $99) that will interface with the Behringer.

I guess I have a couple of questions which might improve the advice:

1. What are you recording to Audacity? It only has 2 tracks (stereo). Are you recording your voice a cappello or is it acoustic guitar and your voice at the same time, or?

2. What is the purpose of using the Acoustic Guitar amp and how are you getting the sound from the amp into the Behringer? (another mic, a "direct out"?)

Thanks so much for taking the time to give me some suggestions. I think there are some good ones there. I really do like my AKG mic, but I guess I could try others. In the past in bands, we used sm57's and 58's, but the AKG is the only good one I have right now. I do work the mic, but I still find my notes piercing sometimes. I guess truthfully I will just have to keep experimenting till I find what works for me.

That was a great suggestion about writing the settings down when I do finally find the right ones...I am getting oldtimers and forget easily lol..

Oh, and Jim, I have not been able to find a setting in audicity for reverb (I don't know where to start with the Gverb settings, I haven't found one I like) I know it must be there, but that is why I use the reverb in my Ibanez or Berringer. Is there a plug in you know of for a different audacity reverb?

Thanks Letha. There are so many variables it is very hard to match the same settings twice as I have found to my horror. So keep a note. The same applies to amp settings and mixer etc. Yep we are all getting on a bit and the old grey matter is unreliable. LOL

PS Checked out you stuff and you have one hell of a voice. Reminds me of Janis but sober and in control. LOL

Thanks for taking the time to respond to my post. Truthfully, I use audacity because of the cost efficiency, lol. I have recorded multiple tracks with it, then mix them down. I don't find that troubling. I may record a drum track, then rythm guitar, then lead vocal, then one to three tracks of harmony, a bass and another lead instrument, and it seems to handle the multiple tracks ok. I used ntrack before, and the tracks seemed not to sync as well.

I have played for alot of years in bands and alone, and I kind of thought I had a good mic technique, but maybe I am questioning that because of the vocals being overdriven alot. I am just trying to analyze the problems and get suggestions so I can fix them.

I also sometimes have recorded directly into the Berringer not using the Ibanez. I have miked the ibanez directly into the computer, I have recorded with a line in from the Ibanez to the Berringer, and also of course directly into a mic into the computer, The Berringer is new to me, so maybe I just need to experiment a little more to get what I am wanting.

I would get a more professional program if money permitted, but for now I am looking for better ways to work with what I have, and that is why I appreciate all your input.

Does Audacity allow you to record in 24-bit? Recording in 24-bit gives you much more headroom than 16-bit... with 16-bit, I used to have a lot of clipping / overdrive on my vocals, but those have been a thing of the past since I switched.

Which AKG are you using to record? I use a Perception 200 for most of my vocals, but I also have a C5. The P200 works very well (for me) with a pop screen about 2-3 inches in front of it. The C5 works best in recordings if you point it straight up (rather than having it mostly horizontal, like you would on stage) and sing over the top of the microphone.

I use light compression when recording and have the singer not sing directly into the mic. I know, however, that most of the pros seem to state it is better to use no compression during recording and just add it later during mixing. Depending on the song and singer, sometimes I add a little reverb when recording and sometimes add some during mixing.

When I record Justice (age ten) we sometimes use some special effects - since her songs are oriented toward the pop / Miley Cyris / disney sound.

Just a couple of tips to try and help. It is better to NOT use FX when recording as it is easier to record dry and add the FX later. FX added whilst recording cannot be removed, adjusted or edited post record.

Singers should always sing directly into the mic otherwise levels will be very poor and distorted, background noise and too high record levels will affect the performance. Always use a good quality mic. Experiment with different types makes and models to see which is best for the particular voice. A good mic will last a very long time if looked after so it is important to buy the best available for your budget and application. It is important to find the optimum distance to sing from. Use a windshield to prevent CAPTURING breathing noises and POPS etc.

The first thing you want to do is make absolutely sure that you're not overloading your mic (even a little) as there's no combination of gadgets or plugins that can fix that.

As Big Jim noted, you can record at a lower level and then normalize the signal in Audacity. Then you would compress the normalized signal to even things out (a 2:1 to 6:1 ratio will usually do the trick).

If you're recording in a noisy room, compression will boost the background noise so try to get away with the least amount possible. Also, if your mic has selectable polar patterns, make sure you're using the "cardoid" pattern and place your mic stand so the back of the mic is pointed towards the noise source (a computer for instance).

As far as using compression while you record; it's really not all that uncommon but I wouldn't recommend it until you have a solid understanding of compression and how to use it. Using a limiter is another option but, again, not until you have a better understanding of how to use it.

I like to record with whatever effects are going on my final recording; compression, reverb, delay, etc. I trust myself enough to go with what works for the mood of the song. This way, I am confident of how the vocal track sounds. Jim is correct, once a vocal track is recorded with effects, they cannot be removed.

A big priority for me is working "in the flow", and moving on to the next song.

I think the mixer is the culprit. I would agree with the person who suggested that you might be setting the gain too high on the mic input on the mixer. You might also have too much treble and midrange on the EQ section. The most likely reason that you would have too much treble and mids is that you've got the bass turned up and need to compensate. Think twice about turning those EQ knobs past 12 oclock, your mixer will start to ADD sound to your recording. When it comes to EQ, less is more. Many of the gurus on mixers only use the eq to SUBTRACT, not ADD, believe it or not. Hope that helps...

With all due respect to Steve Vasil you can send fx to the phones and record dry. Best of both worlds...saves a good performance recording going to waste because too much or the wrong fx are applied during record. That is the way pros do it. You can add fx after but you cannot take them away.

Good advice about EQ I rarely have any mixer EQ settings above 0 (12oclock) and avoid clipping by using the correct balance and GAIN levels. Green light good...... red light bad.

As I record with effects, I am able to monitor equalization. Adding effects after the fact will alter equalization, sometimes in a less than ideal way. I record the vocal as I envision it, I mix the song down, and I'm finished. This is less time consuming and more fun(to me). Joseph Campbell said, "Follow your bliss." To me, recording this way is heeding that advice.

I record my effects as I go, and am quickly moving on to the next idea. This makes me no more professional or amateurish than anybody else. This is my preferred way of working - I respect those who prefer to work differently.

Hi Steve Folk have their own way of doing things and you work with whatever way suits you and your own style that is OK. I am just pointing out that NO professional I have worked with would ever consider recording WITH Fx for the reasons I stated. The long process afterwards mixing and mastering is the bit where the sound engineers come into their own. They cannot work their magic with fx that already have been added.

I respect people who work fast and move on however I prefer spending a bit of time recording and finishing a thing properly before moving on to the next project.

I imagine that when the Beatles recorded "All You Need is Love", that the vocals were recorded live with whatever effects are on the final master. I believe that on many of their earlier recordings, this was probably the case too. These are fine recordings which have stood up to the test of time.

There are as many ways to record wonderfully as there are competent folks recording. For you to make the claim that your methods are "better" or "more professional" is obtuse. This is the sound of me letting go of my end of the rope.

Steve I do not live at the center of the universe. Only people from Nashville apparently do. BUT I do know a tiny wee bit about how MOST pros do it NOWADAYS. The methods the Beatles used are now ancient history. What I am talking about is regarded as standard studio practice in the industry worldwide and few engineers if any would recommend recording vocals your way. If you do it different and it suits YOUR needs then fair enough. I am just saying that if you went to a pro studio I doubt they would choose your way to record.

So, I have had the pleasure of being in some pro studios, but I've also been a producer on the recordings. So I've always received the engineer's advice, then gone ahead doing it "my way." Which has actually included both with and without FX, believe it or not! For me it depends on the situation. When I lay guitar tracks, I often put FX on tape. As a guitarist, I just prefer it that way. It feels more "live" and "real" to me, and I react to the FX during the recording process just as I would onstage. This is different then if I recorded clean guitar, and added distortion or what-not during the mixing phase. Especially because I like that natural tube overdrive, which just creams all over the tape. Wah-wah is another example; you just can't do that after-the-fact.

Vocals, however, I never record with FX. I always let the engineer add reverb and whatever else they use, on their own. This is because engineers these days can literally shape and fine-tune reverb with incredible accuracy. You'd be amazed (or perhaps you wouldn't?). I don't know the extent of y'alls experience but I just love watching engineers in the studio, dragging and dropping different parts of the reverb waves, with 3-D graphs and stuff. It's mind blowing to me. I could never do that on-tape by myself so I sing "clean"

... Most recording software also have automation settings where you can change volumes on a track as you go through it.

This is commonly called "riding the waves" or "riding the faders" where you adjust the volume of individual tracks during the send-to-tape process (be it automation or an actual engineer's hands). This is not really the best way, IMHO and based on books I've read. It's better to use slight compression. Slight, because you want the nuances of your voice to shine through. But I definitely recommend some compression. You can adjust the ratio settings, I don't use anything harder than "4:1" on vocals.

Back in the old days, when people still used tape, you could do an initial recording and "mix down" - for example record 12 drum tracks (one for each drum/cymbal) and then "mix down" the drums to only 2 or 4 tracks. Eventually everything got mixed down to a single pair of stereo tracks. During the mix-down process, the engineer would "ride the waves" and make manual adjustments in volume. These days, this method is slightly antiquated. You can use automation but it's not the same and nearly impossible if you have multiple vocal tracks (harmonies) to mix-down.

I have been away for awhile. Thanks so much for the wonderful advice. I have recently got a new mic to try, an SM58. I can't tell you right now if that has helped my recording concerns,as I have been slowed down a little bit for a while. Still playing, just not recording as much lately. I will let you all know if it makes a difference.

I sure appreciate all of the expertise and advice that you all give. I know that each of us has our own style of recording and there are many different opinions, but each suggestion gives us so many more options to consider that we may not have known to try. I love to experiment and learn, and I even like constructive critism, lol.

And a little bit of debate can be a good thing with good people lol....thanks Jim and Steve, you are both great.

I have concluded only one thing, I could control my dynamics a little more, and that would be one of the simplest solutions. It took me a lot of years to learn them, but maybe I just need to control them better.

Thanks again,

Letha

Oh, here is a video clip of me using the SM58 and a Vox10 at a street fest recently. Maybe it will give you a better idea of my problem, although this song doesn't seem to have as great a problem as others with the mix.

Letha, both of the videos are the same. Was there another one you wanted to show for the 2nd one? They are both the street fest.

As far as recording with effects, it's a personal decision but most engineers nowdays prefer to leave the effects for mixdown. However, if you're recording everything to 2-track with no real mixing capabilities, then you have to record it the way you envision it (with effects). For Guitars, it's also often hard to get the same sound with studio equipment as you get from stomp boxes and amps, so depending on the guitarist, it might make sense to record with his/her effects.

For vocals tracks, I usually use a bit of compression on the way in and send a reverb feed to the monitors. It helps me not to worry as much about going "over" into the red and I know I'll use compression as part of the final mix.

The thing to remember is if you record with any time-based effects like reverb or echo, it is hard-to-impossible to do a clean punch in.

Thanks for letting me know my mistake on posting the same video. I think you will see an example of exactly what I am talking about here on the end of the second.

I record in audacity, but I have recorded up to 8 or 10 tracks. I do realize that the more I am recording, the more experienced with the effects I am becoming. I guess that is one thing I know that practice makes perfect (or closer to perfect lol) I recently discovered Normalize and what an asset that has been to me. I am experienced in the live setting with reverb and chorus and compression and delay, but the effects in audacity have just been something that wasn't real user friendly to me at first. It is becoming more so now. This forum showed me to go out and grab some more plug ins, which have been great for my Audacity. I especially like the Plate reverb over the Gverb of Audacity, and equalize and Normalize are wonderful.

I had a quick look at the videos. The main prob I think is you are singing too close to the mic. The optimum distance should be about a four inch gap between lips and mic. Move away a bit for louder notes and a bit closer for quieter or lower notes. I am not a big fan of using these foam head covers as they lose much of the high end of course you are outdoors and you need to try and eliminate picking up wind noise so a compromise is needed.

One good thing about recording dry vocals is you can experiment with various fx till you get what you want.

I also like a bit of plate. It is about the only thing I use in a live performance.

I checked out the videos and let me say, first of all, you've got a fantastic voice with a very emotive presence. In my opinion, the mic you use is really a secondary concern (for now) as you could make a tin can with a string on the end of it sound good.

I agree with Big Jim; in the first video you were kind of hugging the mic. But in the second video your technique looked pretty darn good to me.

In both videos, I detected what sounded like a bit of overload. Have you ruled out the possibility that you're overloading the mic? If you're not overloading the mic, it sounds like you're overloading somewhere in the signal chain.

When you say that somtimes the high notes hurt your ears, do you mean because they sound harsh or distorted? If they sound harsh then the culprit might simply be your recording chain or the plugins you're using in Audacity. You wouldn't be the first person to experience the "harshness" of digital recording.

For all its hassles, recording to tape had the wonderful side effect of "tape saturation" which added warmth to the recording and is very pleasing to the human ear. With digital recording, there is no saturation effect so what you play/sing is what you get. It can take a bit of practice to learn how to create a pleasing mix in the digital domain.

I thank you both as always for your opinions. The one thing I have learned in my life is that you can always learn more, and I listen. I know that effects and equipment can make a world of difference as we have seen many times when we watch some of the famous singers live and wonder what's wrong with them today. Some don't sing quite as well without the studio pros fixing a few flaws. I can improve my technique I am sure. I will just keep experimenting till I get the more polished recording sound I would like to have. Practice makes perfect (or closer to perfect lol)

Looking back over this thread, the first thing to do would be to switch from Audacity to Reaper which is harder to learn but has countless advantages and is not very expensive. Definitely back away from the mic when belting out the loud bits....no compressor can substitute for mic technique. Then place a decent compressor plug-in on the recorded track. I use T-racks but the one that comes with Reaper is fine. Set the attack pretty fast, the threshold down to where it starts to work when the loud bits come in, and the ratio around 4:1. The test of whether you have it right is to see the needle moving down around 3 - 4 db when it is compressing the louder parts and returning to zero during the soft bits. Adjust the threshold to make that happen. And with digital recording, never let the volume get in the red. Turn the whole track down if that happens or you will get nasty distortion above 0db.