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This Team is Built for the Regular Season

Well, its in outline form, but you'll get the point. Its already taken too long and as you've seen, I just get angry when I work on it.

My working title, as you know, has been Why This Team is Built for the Regular Season, but I think a better title might be, Why I Wouldn't Mind if this Team Were Blown Up This Summer.

Although you can nit-pick, make excuses, or point out extenuating circumstances for many of the points, the Pacers - as currenlty assembled - need just about every one of these concerns to be resolved in their favor to return to elite status. Some of you are magically expecting the team to magically "flip a switch" and become contenders again when they walk into training camp at the beginning of next season, but I don't see it.

Here's a bummer, if JO has surgery in early April, and it takes 4-6 months to heal, he's just barely going to have begun basketball-type workouts (as opposed to physical therapy) when training camp starts. If Tinsley's torn ligament requires surgery, he too might not be ready for training camp.

I believe this team's window of opportunity, based on both internal (Reggie) and external (the East isn't as weak anymore) factors, was last season and this season. And yet its come to very similar conclusions in each of the last two seasons: a meltdown by Ron and injuries to JO and Tinsley have combined to eliminate any hope of a championship.

IMO, we'll need to make major changes among our so-called big three to get back to the elite next season. Although its no secret that I hope the team gets rid of Ron, I'm not sure that trading him (and getting a starting-caliber SF in return) is enough.

Anyway, here's my working outline to Why I Wouldn't Mind if this Team Were Blown Up This Summer:

The team’s best player/ first option

Can be solved during a seven-game series by either ‘gimmick’ defenses such as SVG’s swarming defense or double-teams that push him out from the post.

Isn’t very good at passing out of the double-team.

Has the skills to play center but breaks down physically if he spends too much time as the primary post defender

Is he a guy that can lead a team to a championship (like Duncan, Shaq, Hakeem, etc.) or is he a guy that can just lead a team into thrilling but futile playoff runs (like Uncle Reggie, Barkley, Ewing, Iverson, Garnett, etc.)

Chemistry?

Lots of fans pooh-poohed the idea that our team’s chemistry might not be very good * before * the “Promote my CD” situation

There isn’t any reason to believe that, when the full team gets together again, the chemistry problems will have been solved – especially if there is any truth to the rumor that JO and Ron are struggling to co-exist on the same team

Subtracting Reggie from the team, even though he’s never been a “vocal leader”, could remove the one calming influence in the locker room

There’s no guarantee Dale will re-sign with the Pacers

The guy many fans believe to be the team’s “second best player” (and some actually consider him to be the team’s MVP) is completely un-reliable when the pressure rises. Enough said.

The team’s “cog” – the guy that’s truly their second-most important player - their PG – struggles with his physical conditioning

Generally unable to play more than 30-mpg without a breakdown

Claims every summer “to be in even better condition than last season” but has yet to show any results late in the season.

Notable exception – last season. He was benched for the first two months, which effectively postponed his annual breakdown from mid-March to mid-May

We weren’t even the favorite to win the East this season, and the rest of the conference is improving while we’re in neutral

Everybody that said last summer that Shaq and Wade weren’t enough to make Miami a contender was just plain wrong

We’re playing in the same division as the defending champs

Chicago, Washington, Cleveland, Orlando, etc. have made improvements to close the “talent gap” while our team is largely unchanged, except for our sixth-man

Even if we were to win the East, we match up well with San Antonio but they’re just a little bit better at every position (except perhaps PG)

Our coach’s philosophy is to “win now.” He prefers veterans, but our team still has very young players in key positions.

Is Rick’s lack of patience appropriate for this team, as assembled?

Should we trade some of our young guys and/ or our upcoming mid-first-round pick for veterans if he’s not going to let them develop?

I’d be fine with Rick’s approach if he had a veteran team like the teams Bird had, but that’s not the hand he’s been dealt.

The team’s backup PGs are inadequate replacements at initiating the offense

Can occasionally have good games

Offense grows stagnant

Tendency to let big leads disappear

Rule changes – already in place for this season – are not favorable to the Pacers

Hurt our physical defense as the officials are calling more fouls for bumping, holding, etc.

Our only perimeter player that has been able to take advantage of the rule changes, offensively, is 39 years old and retiring

The team’s “Center of the future” – for whatever reason – has regressed significantly during his rookie season

Maybe the rest of the league has figured out how to play him

Foul magnet

Pre-draft rumors of always being out-of-shape

Because the team hasn’t committed the necessary in-game investment, he won’t be ready to start next season, and he might not even be ready to be a permanent member of the rotation

Individual rebounding still leaves a lot to be desired

We just gave up on a high-post center that might’ve complimented JO very well because he never received the necessary in-game investment, either

Even though I was smitten with him early in the season, I’m now 50%/50% between, “He’ll be a legit starting center (Dampier)” and “He’ll drive us all mad with his unfulfilled potential (Jerome James).”

Regardless, Jeff Foster, would be better suited to be a backup (and as said above, there's no guarantee Dale will re-sign with the Pacers this summer)

Our SGs not named Reggie are either:

Very streaky and emotional; or

Rock solid yet undersized

Sure, this team also has some positives, I'm not denying those, that's just not the point of this essay. JO's obviously a great player, and Tinsley, IMO, is one of the best PGs in the game. Rick is, in general a very, very good coach even though he has some flaws that irritate me. Is that enough, given everything that's gone bad over the past twelve months, to point this team back to the elite? Or will it require a bold shakeup help get them there?

I know what we're going to hear preached to us - from the front office, from the Walsh Warriors, etc.: patience, building from within, etc.

That's led the Pacers to as many championships as Ron has (and Reggie, for that matter). I'm ready to try something different and bold.

Okay, fire away...

Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
And life itself, rushing over me
Life itself, the wind in black elms,
Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

Re: This Team is Built for the Regular Season

Later I want to hit this more point for point. But for now all I will say Jay, is that pointing out all of the flaws under a microscope while shoving all the positives (and there are many) to the shadows is as productive as it is to be a sunshine warrior who pushes the negatives to the same place--- not very much.

Re: This Team is Built for the Regular Season

Later I want to hit this more point for point. But for now all I will say Jay, is that pointing out all of the flaws under a microscope while shoving all the positives (and there are many) to the shadows is as productive as it is to be a sunshine warrior who pushes the negatives to the same place--- not very much.

Re: This Team is Built for the Regular Season

This team has gone through so many different situations this season, I think all it needs it stability.

I see so many complimentary players on our roster at both ends of the floor.

Ron and JO compliment each other on the offensive and defensive end. JO for all his sublime talent is a very traditional offensive player, Ron has a very unorthadox offensive game.

Dale and Jeff are the perfect combination for a rebounding front line, looking at the box scores I see the rest of the team getting significantly less boards but that is because those two are swallowing up all of them.

Freddy and Jax gives us the flexability to play big or small at the SG spot with great shooting and defense.

The PG spot is the biggest ? imho. AJ has definately picked up his game since his slow start after returning from injury but you cant help but feel that he is a weak link. A lightning fast backup PG who can create on offense would be the perfect addition in the offseason. That euro player that was recently rumoured to be linked to us sounds intreguing. Tins' injury worries are definately concerning, but he has had to shoulder the heaviest load of his career during this season.

I honestly cant believe you want to blow up this team after the season that we have had.

Re: This Team is Built for the Regular Season

Damn, Jay. That's one hell of a lot of frustration you're trying to work out there.

Like Suave, I disagree, but do lack a bit of time, since I'll be leaving for home in a couple of minutes. I will try to revisit, though.

But, just as a quick summary for my feelings, I'm nearly as excited about Dale's return as Peck. And without the team's early implosion on 11/19, I believe that the addition of Dale would have proven to be as much the X-factor for us this season as the addition of Sheed was to Detroit last season.

But more on that later. Hopefully tonight.

But I tip my hat to your post. It's well thought out and expresses many of the points that you have brought up over the last couple of months. It should prove to be a great starting point for a rather lengthy discussion.

Re: This Team is Built for the Regular Season

In the name of balance, I've spent most of this essay (errr, outline) criticizing my four favorite members of the team (JO, Tinsley, Carlisle, Harrison).

However, I was very upfront that this essay (errr, outline) was to just look at one side of the issue - this team has major obstacles to overcome to return to the elite. This was not intended to be a balanced essay (errr, outline) of the team, season, etc. I was picking the topic that is dominating my current viewpoint of the team and expounding on it. If you try to make it anything more than what I've said it was, you do so at your own risk.

Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
And life itself, rushing over me
Life itself, the wind in black elms,
Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

Re: This Team is Built for the Regular Season

I honestly cant believe you want to blow up this team after the season that we have had.

I honestly can't believe people want to keep this team together.

A match + gasoline... what happened this season is tightly linked to what happened last season. The behind-the-scenes crap that I feared might destroy this team was already rearing its ugly head prior to the brawl. It was (and is) just a matter of time before this team imploded (implodes), and keeping them intact is just an exercise in prolonging the inevitable.

Last season was the aberrition. Although it was loads of fun right up until the moment it blew up...

I like most of the players and coaches individually - you all know that. But I don't have much confidence they can work as a team.

Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
And life itself, rushing over me
Life itself, the wind in black elms,
Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

Re: This Team is Built for the Regular Season

We were an elite team last season with a horribly unbalanced roster and barring ill timed injuries could have won it all. Despite the complete shambles this season has been I think our roster has moved in the right direction. We are stronger in the backcourt, have a player to compliment JO and Jeff in DD (presuming we can resign him) and young players like JJ and Hulk show promise for the future.

I think the only major obstacle to overcome is finding a more sustainable and flexible rotation at PG, getting the whole roster healthy and on court together. Almost all the pieces are there for us to become an elite team.

Sure things could go to hell in a handbasket, Ron could get himself suspended for life, JO could continue to bicker with refs and be a black hole, Tins could follow in Bender's footsteps, Hulk could never live up to his potential, etc but after all this team has gone through I think that their maturity will get there.

Re: This Team is Built for the Regular Season

Last season was the aberrition. Although it was loads of fun right up until the moment it blew up...

I dont see last season as an aberration, you dont win 61 games and almost make the finals as a fluke. Ron didn't 'blow up' until after JO and Tins were injured and it became obvious that things weren't working.

Re: This Team is Built for the Regular Season

I don't know that the chemistry is a big problem. When Al Harrington was on the team he was the only player that hurt the chemistry. When the Pacers got rid of him I think they got rid of a problem and improved the offense and defense with Jax. Jax and DD could be the missing gears to our championship machine...Jax improves our outside shooting while DD gives us another down low presence...let's face it, not many guys in the league fear jeff, pollard, and the hulk... Ron and JO, i think, would put their differences aside if they are serious about winning a championship.

Re: This Team is Built for the Regular Season

I dont see last season as an aberration, you dont win 61 games and almost make the finals as a fluke. Ron didn't 'blow up' until after JO and Tins were injured and it became obvious that things weren't working.

Actually Ron blew up right after the first round of the playoffs. Some of us knew but couldn't say & then this past summer Bob Kravits outed Mark Montieth & the star for actually knowing this all along & putting forth the Pacers P.R. line about Ron & migraines. They litterally had to beg him to get on the team plane to come home from Miami.

As to last season being a fluke? I'm torn on that. A win is a win so it's hard to ever call anything a fluke, however I will say that I think the win totall was inflated because of an extremely poor E.C. to start the season. Our record from Nov. to Feb. was just out of this world & most of the E.C. was still injury riddled & honestly just poor.

We beat the Celtics easily, however it is noted by our own paper that they may have been the worst playoff team in history.

We managed to get by the Heat, but let's face it none of us would have wanted to go back to Miami & try and win there.

We went toe to toe with the Pistons for awhile. But let's not act like we were sweeping them. We lost game two in our house with everybody at full strength. The old "what if Reggie had dunked it" question is nice but useless. He didn't, we lost they won.

So, IMO, Jay has a very valid point about last season. I think it was really just more of a case of us being able to snack up on teams during the regular season & put us in line to beat teams we were supposed to beat in the playoffs, up until the Pistons.

Now would we have won with J.O. & Tins? who knows. All I know is we didn't win.

Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

Re: This Team is Built for the Regular Season

Just because the east isn't as weak doesn't mean our window has closed. This team is still very young, and even without our 3 best players we can make the playoffs. I really don't think Miami, or Detroit can take us if we're healthy. If Artest was traded during the offseason for the right player, I'd be happy, but otherwise, I'm happy with this team 1-9, or if Reggie returns 1-10, and that's as deep as we need to be.

Re: This Team is Built for the Regular Season

Ron
J.O.
Jax
Tins
DD
Freddie
Foster
Cro
Pollard
Harrison
AJ
Gill

...and possibly (though not likely) Reggie.

Some flaws there, but healthy and together for a whole season that's an INCREDIBLE line-up. In fact, with Reggie in there (take out Gill or whomever) I challenge all takers to find me a better 12-man roster in the past 10 years.

Re: This Team is Built for the Regular Season

Well, its in outline form, but you'll get the point. Its already taken too long and as you've seen, I just get angry when I work on it.

My working title, as you know, has been Why This Team is Built for the Regular Season, but I think a better title might be, Why I Wouldn't Mind if this Team Were Blown Up This Summer.

Although you can nit-pick, make excuses, or point out extenuating circumstances for many of the points, the Pacers - as currenlty assembled - need just about every one of these concerns to be resolved in their favor to return to elite status. Some of you are magically expecting the team to magically "flip a switch" and become contenders again when they walk into training camp at the beginning of next season, but I don't see it.

Here's a bummer, if JO has surgery in early April, and it takes 4-6 months to heal, he's just barely going to have begun basketball-type workouts (as opposed to physical therapy) when training camp starts. If Tinsley's torn ligament requires surgery, he too might not be ready for training camp.

I believe this team's window of opportunity, based on both internal (Reggie) and external (the East isn't as weak anymore) factors, was last season and this season. And yet its come to very similar conclusions in each of the last two seasons: a meltdown by Ron and injuries to JO and Tinsley have combined to eliminate any hope of a championship.

IMO, we'll need to make major changes among our so-called big three to get back to the elite next season. Although its no secret that I hope the team gets rid of Ron, I'm not sure that trading him (and getting a starting-caliber SF in return) is enough.

Anyway, here's my working outline to Why I Wouldn't Mind if this Team Were Blown Up This Summer:

The team’s best player/ first option

Can be solved during a seven-game series by either ‘gimmick’ defenses such as SVG’s swarming defense or double-teams that push him out from the post.

Isn’t very good at passing out of the double-team.

Has the skills to play center but breaks down physically if he spends too much time as the primary post defender

Is he a guy that can lead a team to a championship (like Duncan, Shaq, Hakeem, etc.) or is he a guy that can just lead a team into thrilling but futile playoff runs (like Uncle Reggie, Barkley, Ewing, Iverson, Garnett, etc.)

Chemistry?

Lots of fans pooh-poohed the idea that our team’s chemistry might not be very good * before * the “Promote my CD” situation

There isn’t any reason to believe that, when the full team gets together again, the chemistry problems will have been solved – especially if there is any truth to the rumor that JO and Ron are struggling to co-exist on the same team

Subtracting Reggie from the team, even though he’s never been a “vocal leader”, could remove the one calming influence in the locker room

There’s no guarantee Dale will re-sign with the Pacers

The guy many fans believe to be the team’s “second best player” (and some actually consider him to be the team’s MVP) is completely un-reliable when the pressure rises. Enough said.

The team’s “cog” – the guy that’s truly their second-most important player - their PG – struggles with his physical conditioning

Generally unable to play more than 30-mpg without a breakdown

Claims every summer “to be in even better condition than last season” but has yet to show any results late in the season.

Notable exception – last season. He was benched for the first two months, which effectively postponed his annual breakdown from mid-March to mid-May

We weren’t even the favorite to win the East this season, and the rest of the conference is improving while we’re in neutral

Everybody that said last summer that Shaq and Wade weren’t enough to make Miami a contender was just plain wrong

We’re playing in the same division as the defending champs

Chicago, Washington, Cleveland, Orlando, etc. have made improvements to close the “talent gap” while our team is largely unchanged, except for our sixth-man

Even if we were to win the East, we match up well with San Antonio but they’re just a little bit better at every position (except perhaps PG)

Our coach’s philosophy is to “win now.” He prefers veterans, but our team still has very young players in key positions.

Is Rick’s lack of patience appropriate for this team, as assembled?

Should we trade some of our young guys and/ or our upcoming mid-first-round pick for veterans if he’s not going to let them develop?

I’d be fine with Rick’s approach if he had a veteran team like the teams Bird had, but that’s not the hand he’s been dealt.

The team’s backup PGs are inadequate replacements at initiating the offense

Can occasionally have good games

Offense grows stagnant

Tendency to let big leads disappear

Rule changes – already in place for this season – are not favorable to the Pacers

Hurt our physical defense as the officials are calling more fouls for bumping, holding, etc.

Our only perimeter player that has been able to take advantage of the rule changes, offensively, is 39 years old and retiring

The team’s “Center of the future” – for whatever reason – has regressed significantly during his rookie season

Maybe the rest of the league has figured out how to play him

Foul magnet

Pre-draft rumors of always being out-of-shape

Because the team hasn’t committed the necessary in-game investment, he won’t be ready to start next season, and he might not even be ready to be a permanent member of the rotation

Individual rebounding still leaves a lot to be desired

We just gave up on a high-post center that might’ve complimented JO very well because he never received the necessary in-game investment, either

Even though I was smitten with him early in the season, I’m now 50%/50% between, “He’ll be a legit starting center (Dampier)” and “He’ll drive us all mad with his unfulfilled potential (Jerome James).”

Regardless, Jeff Foster, would be better suited to be a backup (and as said above, there's no guarantee Dale will re-sign with the Pacers this summer)

Our SGs not named Reggie are either:

Very streaky and emotional; or

Rock solid yet undersized

Sure, this team also has some positives, I'm not denying those, that's just not the point of this essay. JO's obviously a great player, and Tinsley, IMO, is one of the best PGs in the game. Rick is, in general a very, very good coach even though he has some flaws that irritate me. Is that enough, given everything that's gone bad over the past twelve months, to point this team back to the elite? Or will it require a bold shakeup help get them there?

I know what we're going to hear preached to us - from the front office, from the Walsh Warriors, etc.: patience, building from within, etc.

That's led the Pacers to as many championships as Ron has (and Reggie, for that matter). I'm ready to try something different and bold.

Okay, fire away...

I'm shocked that you have not been ripped on more than you have. While what you say makes sense to me I know that really is setting off the bells to announce Ragnarok (Doom of the Gods in Norse mythology) to some of the sunshine brigade. I know U.B. is either busy & hasn't seen this yet or he has fallen into a seizure induced coma under his computer or is just ignoring you or is as we speak typing a post the size of war & peace.

I will freely admit that Dale Davis being home has taken the bitter winds out of me. It's as though my world has been set straight again.

However if Dale hadn't come home I would not only be agreeing with you I would be calling you an amatuer in your use of the darkside force . There is far more fertile ground to till here than you have even touched.

But having said that Dale being home has filled up one huge hole for me & I'm consistant on this as I've said it for two straight seasons now. I was never as worried about any other position on the floor as I was the power position.

I always focused my anger at this on Foster because O'Neal just would not do it & I guess he is the franchise so I felt that Foster was the problem.

Unlike some of the others I do NOT feel as though Jeff Foster is a good fit with J.O. Actually I felt he was a detriment on many occasions. However I do feel that a combo of Dale & Jermaine may be something to see. Jermaine has begged for two years now for a player to help him down low & there will be nobody better at baning down low & not needing offense than Dale Davis.

However, & here is where you have some ammo again, it really should never have come down to the needing help in the middle because we HAD a center who did all of that & was able to score yet we just threw him away like yesterdays newspaper with dog crap on it.

You are being way to easy on the Artest fans when you don't make them account as to why they actually beleive anything will be differant.

I don't think you even touched on Bender. The God awfull long term contract of Anthony Johnson & the inability to keep Jamaal on the floor even half of the games this year.

But since Dale is home, it's all good.

Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

Some flaws there, but healthy and together for a whole season that's an INCREDIBLE line-up. In fact, with Reggie in there (take out Gill or whomever) I challenge all takers to find me a better 12-man roster in the past 10 years.

The bulls in the 90s.

Don't ask Marvin Harrison what he did during the bye week. "Batman never told where the Bat Cave is," he explained.

Re: This Team is Built for the Regular Season

Won't surprise anyone but I disagree in fact I could not disagree anymore than I do.

Last year was not an aberration, this is a 60 win team, there is no doubt in my mind, and I'll say this again, JO and Ron form the best tandem in the whole NBA and they will win a championship very, very soon.

So Jay you can blow this team up if you want and spend 3 years at least (without any guarantees they will ever get to a 60 win level) just trying to match what we already have.

I say no thanks.

I've never been more convinced after seeing the effect that Dale has had on the team that this team will win a championship very soon.

And before someone discounts my comments because I'm a member of the "sunshine brigade", for the record I've never, ever said anything like this before. Never during the 90's have I said they were going to win a championship. To be honest, I thought they maxed out doing as well as they did from 1994 - 2000.

I didn't say last year's team was lucky, or a fluke. But I do believe this version of the team peaked last season.

Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
And life itself, rushing over me
Life itself, the wind in black elms,
Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

Re: This Team is Built for the Regular Season

-snip- Ron and JO, i think, would put their differences aside if they are serious about winning a championship.

I'm intentionally not spending much effort in this post to say what you all know I think about Ron...

But after Ron basically quit on the team and got in the series of altercations with JO, how or when will we ever know (1) that Ron is serious about winning a championship or (2) that JO has any real interest in mending fences with a guy that 'quit on his team'.

And JO probably deserves some blame for apparently being petty from time-to-time as well.

Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
And life itself, rushing over me
Life itself, the wind in black elms,
Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

Re: This Team is Built for the Regular Season

-snip-So Jay you can blow this team up and spend 3 years at least (without any guarantees they will ever get to a 60 win level) just trying to match what we already have.

I say no thanks. -snip-

Miami, Detroit, Cleveland, etc....we'll be lucky to get back to the ECFs if we stand pat with the current team.

There's no guarantees either way.

Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
And life itself, rushing over me
Life itself, the wind in black elms,
Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

Re: This Team is Built for the Regular Season

However if Dale hadn't come home I would not only be agreeing with you I would be calling you an amatuer in your use of the darkside force . There is far more fertile ground to till here than you have even touched.
-snip-

Yeah, I got tired of how bitter it was making me to write it, so I just cut it off and posted it as an incomplete outline. Besides, there were a couple of topics you mentioned that I didn't want to waste any more keystrokes on.

Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
And life itself, rushing over me
Life itself, the wind in black elms,
Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you