To be fair ... I never owned a PF80ED. I owned a PF65EDA. I've used one plenty of times, and there is one (with SMC Zoom) available at the nearby Federal Waterfowl Refuge. I actually had my Razor side by side with it a couple months ago, but I didn't take notes. The better scope is the Vortex. Particularly in contrast and color. The Vortex wins on resolution as well, but the PF80ED is quite impressive in this category, IMO.

I don't think I could quantify a "The Razor is X% better than the PFED," but it is easily noticed side by side. It is easier to explain that the Razor shares a quality and performance tier with the Big Three, while the Pentax occupies the next lower tier. It is just about alone on that tier (although great things are said about the new Celestron Regal ED series, but I haven't yet seen one), while the next lower tier is quite crowded by the Vortex Skyline ED, Bushnell Elite 80, and their competitors.

What I notice most about the Pentax scopes are they are extremely flexible due to their acceptance of astro eyepieces. The scopes had appreciably different views with different eyepieces. The PF65ED was quite the competitor to the Zeiss 65tFL when the Pentax was wearing a Pentax XW14 astro eyepiece. The XW eyepiece would narrow the gap between the PF80ED and the Vortex Razor 85HD.

To be fair ... I never owned a PF80ED. I owned a PF65EDA. I've used one plenty of times, and there is one (with SMC Zoom) available at the nearby Federal Waterfowl Refuge. I actually had my Razor side by side with it a couple months ago, but I didn't take notes. The better scope is the Vortex. Particularly in contrast and color. The Vortex wins on resolution as well, but the PF80ED is quite impressive in this category, IMO.

I don't think I could quantify a "The Razor is X% better than the PFED," but it is easily noticed side by side. It is easier to explain that the Razor shares a quality and performance tier with the Big Three, while the Pentax occupies the next lower tier. It is just about alone on that tier (although great things are said about the new Celestron Regal ED series, but I haven't yet seen one), while the next lower tier is quite crowded by the Vortex Skyline ED, Bushnell Elite 80, and their competitors.

What I notice most about the Pentax scopes are they are extremely flexible due to their acceptance of astro eyepieces. The scopes had appreciably different views with different eyepieces. The PF65ED was quite the competitor to the Zeiss 65tFL when the Pentax was wearing a Pentax XW14 astro eyepiece. The XW eyepiece would narrow the gap between the PF80ED and the Vortex Razor 85HD.

Sorry tompac,

That is the best I can do to answer your question.

No apologies neccesary! I appreciate yours and rancids comments. The reviews I have read on the Celestron is that it is optically it's equal, but the Pentax gets the nod on quality build. I am defintely going to buy a spotter this year. Never owned one. But I think if I was going to spend 1200 for the Pentax, I could justify 400 more for the Razor. All that said, I am leaning towards the Regal. And like the Pentax it takes 1.25 eyepieces. The Zen Ray sounds promising also. Time will tell. I am going to spend the money for a good tripod and head regardless of which scope I buy.

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