As Seen in Vanity Fair's August 2006 Issue!
As Seen in US News & World Report's September 11 Fifth Anniversary Issue!
As Seen in Time Magazine's September 11, 2006 Issue!
As Seen in Phoenix New Times' August 9, 2007 Issue!

Friday, June 20, 2014

Crazy?

The Troofers hate it when we use this word, but it's not like insane or non compos is any gentler. Anyway, one of my general tasks when I see a name as listed among the Troofer community that I have not seen before is to look them up for indications of insanity.

Susan Lindauer gets mentioned at the 9-11 rebunkers blog as doing a radio show on some facebook project that says, I am the face of 9-11 Truth. She also just happens to have beaten Sean Fitzgerald-- The guy who killed his father because he thought Daddy was the devil--when it comes to officially bonkers; she was found too wacky to stand trial not once, but twice:

Ms. Lindauer, who had been declared incompetent for trial by Judge Michael B. Mukasey, now the United States attorney general, tried to persuade a different judge that she was now competent.
But the second judge, Loretta A. Preska
of Federal District Court, ruled late Monday that while Ms. Lindauer
was “highly intelligent” and “generally capable of functioning at a high
level in many ways,” she also was suffering from a mental disease or
defect.

As a result, the judge said, Ms. Lindauer was “unable to
understand the nature and consequences of the proceedings against her
or to assist properly in her defense.”

And:

The judge cited the testimony of a government psychiatrist who said
that Ms. Lindauer claimed to have special powers and that she had
indicated she once met with Osama bin Laden, who disclosed to her the location of a bomb. The judge said that demonstrated “a lack of connection with reality.”

Judge
Preska also cited Ms. Lindauer’s behavior in court last year, when,
after being admonished not to speak without first consulting with her
lawyer, she stuffed tissues in her mouth. That was “not the response of
someone rationally connected to the proceedings,” Judge Preska said.

So today I'm looking at a rave review of 9-11 in the Academic Community and I start Googling the names of the folks involved and came across Barry Shainbaum.

Adnan Zuberi (BMath '10), Mike Bondi (BASc '94), Hadi Izadi (PhD '10, Electrical Engineering) and Barry Shainbaum (BSc '71) created the award-winning documentary film 9/11 in the Academic Community, which follows the academic discourse on the origins of the war on terror.

One day at age 18, Barry was watching TV
with his girlfriend when, out of the blue, he hallucinated that he was
on the show. He’d been on TV before, but no, this wasn’t Tiny Talent
Time. He fell into a catatonic state; he couldn’t talk.

This was the beginning.

No one could figure out what was wrong.
There was a stay in a locked psychiatric ward. He’d swing between
episodes of delusion and periods of focus and achievement.

In his 20s, while at university, he was
driving to an appointment when he hallucinated he was a cop. He actually
got the car in front of him to pull over and the woman in it to produce
her driver’s licence. He was wearing an orange tank top and cut-off
shorts.

Barry let her go with a warning, then
drove himself to his psychiatrist’s office, where he talked unstoppably.

The point is not to laugh at these folks for their mental health issues, but to note that they do exist and that they make up a very high percentage of the movement.

As of 2006, 30 million American adults could be considered 9/11 truthers. The number is probably far greater now. You guys cite a dozen murders for these 30 million people over ten years. In the same time period, 270 million non-truthers have committed 160,000 murders--13,000 times as many as the truthers. Non-truthers murder their fellow citizens at a rate of 5925 per million (over ten years). Truthers murder at a rate of 0.4 per million. Thus non-truthers murder people at a rate 1,481,200 percent of that of the truthers.

In the years since 9/11, our population of 300 million experiences 3.6 billion person-years, 943 million of which involve mental disorder.

Assuming a truther population steady at 100 million since the start of 2007 and a straight-line rise from 10 million in 2002, I get 930 million truther-years for that time. You have to show more than 244 million mentally disordered truther years to make any claim that the rate of disorders among truthers exceeds that of the general population.

Mr. Shainbaum appears to have been asymptomatic for 25 years. Since that time the general population has suffered 1.45 billion person-years of mental disorder.

Ms. Lindauer's person-years of disorder are somewhere between 0 and 12. So even if we assume (as you do) that she's been totally wacko for 12 years, you've still got 243,999,988 more person-years of truther mental disorder to demonstrate before the rate of disorder among truthers will even equal that of the general population.

Ian, my very conservative estimate of 30 million Truthers comes from the Scripps Howard poll of 2006, by which 16% of Americans were willing to tell a pollster that they considered it very likely or somewhat likely that explosives were planted in the twin towers. (Note this poll was taken before ae911truth even started.)

The same poll found that 36% of Americans believed it was very likely or somewhat likely that Bush officials knew the attacks were coming, but chose to do nothing because they wanted an excuse for war.

A 2007 Scripps Howard poll found that 62% of Americans considered it very likely or somewhat likely that "some people in the federal government had specific warnings of the 9/11 attacks in New York and Washington, but chose to ignore those warnings."

Last time I checked, 62% of Americans is well over 100 million. Thus my estimate of 30 million adult truthers is very, very conservative.

Brian, these are not ordinary everyday Truthers; they are prominent in the movement. Lindauer has a radio show that got cited at the rebunkers blog, while Shainbaum was one of the producers of an "award-winning documentary".

Pat, I never heard of Susan Lindauer's radio show. I never heard of truthfrequenxcyradio.com. What makes you think this is "prominent"?

What evidence have you that Barry Shainbaum is a "prominent" 9/11 truther? I never heard of him. "Producer" is a a title that is frequently given to people who do no more than throw momey on a project.

Ian, my very conservative estimate of 30 million Truthers comes from the Scripps Howard poll of 2006, by which 16% of Americans were willing to tell a pollster that they considered it very likely or somewhat likely that explosives were planted in the twin towers. (Note this poll was taken before ae911truth even started.)

The same poll found that 36% of Americans believed it was very likely or somewhat likely that Bush officials knew the attacks were coming, but chose to do nothing because they wanted an excuse for war.

A 2007 Scripps Howard poll found that 62% of Americans considered it very likely or somewhat likely that "some people in the federal government had specific warnings of the 9/11 attacks in New York and Washington, but chose to ignore those warnings."

Last time I checked, 62% of Americans is well over 100 million. Thus my estimate of 30 million adult truthers is very, very conservative.

I'm curious as to who you think you're kidding with this spam? I mean, I suppose you're trying to convince yourself that 9/11 truth isn't dead and that's why you post this.

Then again, you're so stupid that you were bragging about how 0.07% of architects and engineers are part of Richard Gage's cult, so maybe you really do believe that 9/11 truth is some kind of mass movement.

9/11 Truth isn't dead as long as the widows' 273 questions remain unanswered and the ten essential mysteries of the towers' demise remain unexplained.

You've already admitted that the widows will never have their questions answered, and the "essential mysteries" have been explained: they're the paranoid delusions of a mentally ill unemployed janitor.

Back in 2006, a NYT poll showed that 81% of the people thought the government was hiding something or "mostly lying" about 9/11.

Yes, I wouldn't be surprised if the government was covering its ass about something related to 9/11. That doesn't make me a paranoid lunatic like you who thinks the Bush administration blew up the towers with magic spray-on thermite and invisible silent explosives.

Legislation pending in Congress will require declassification of the 28 pages redacted in the congressional report about 9/11.

That's nice.

9/11 Truth is dead only in your silly, lying little mind.

Poor Brian. He's so pathetic that he can't even afford a decent haircut. No wonder he's so desperate for his 9/11 delusions to be true!

The math says that only 0.0007% of the 2.8 million architects and engineers agree with the NIST report--even if you count a non-existent expert like your "Uncle Steve".

100X that number were willing to put their professional reputations on the line and agree with Mr. Gage.

99.93% of them are too cowardly to express an opinion. You unjustifiably assume that their silence signifies agreement with NIST. A more thoughtful view is that their silence might represent a fear of the truth.

Of 30 to 150 million truthers, only 21,000 have bothered to sign the petition at ae911truth. That's a signing rate of 1/100th of 1% (of 150 million truthers) to 7/100ths of 1% (of 30 million truthers).

Though the 2.8 million architectural and engineering professionals face many more inhibitions to signing the petition than do ordinary citizens, because they are putting their professional reputations on the line and risking harm to their relationships with clients and colleagues, their participation rate is either exactly the same as the participation rate of the 30 million truther population, or it is 7X the rate of the 150 million truther population. The 2200 who signed the ae911truth petition are 7/100ths of 1% of the 2.8 million BLS architects and engineers—10X the signing rate of the general public.

By contrast, how many of the 2.8 million architects and engineers in the USA are architects and engineers for the official story? I've seen a list of about 20. That's 7/10,000th of 1% of the 2.8 million. The signing rate of the general population on the ae911truth petition is 7/1000 of 1%--10X more—and the signing rate of the architects and engineers for truth is 100X that of the architects and engineers for the official story. And get this--every one of the 20 on the official story list has professional ties to NIST.

You and your invisible "Uncle Steve" and your 20 bought-and-paid-for "experts" can not make any credible claim that you represent the majority. The facts say otherwise.

The math says that only 0.0007% of the 2.8 million architects and engineers agree with the NIST report--even if you count a non-existent expert like your "Uncle Steve".

The math doesn't say that. You say that because you're a desperate, hysterical liar who doesn't understand math.

Of 30 to 150 million truthers, only 21,000 have bothered to sign the petition at ae911truth. That's a signing rate of 1/100th of 1% (of 150 million truthers) to 7/100ths of 1% (of 30 million truthers).

Thanks for proving my point. There are only 21,000 truthers left. The movement is dead.

You and your invisible "Uncle Steve" and your 20 bought-and-paid-for "experts" can not make any credible claim that you represent the majority. The facts say otherwise.

You can not name even one engineer who will stick his neck out and publicly express confidence in NIST's collapse sequence. Your "Uncle Steve" does not count because you can not prove that he made such a public declaration.

By contrast, 2200 credentialed architects and engineers were willing to risk ridicule and professional ostracism by signing the petition calling for new investigations.

Your assumption that silence means assent to the NIST report is unjustified. Anyone who bothers to check can see that NIST's reports are incomplete, and they lack physical evidence to support the computer models that were reverse-engineered to generate the desired results.

The latest polls show that only 40% of the American people have faith in the official reports. That means that 180 million do not.

So GMS, what is your point? You don't believe in democracy, and what 60% of the people believe is not important?

I've been through this dialogue a dozen times here at least. Ian claims there are only 2,000 truthers in the world, and claims with no evidence at all that there's an invisible consensus that the official story is correct.

I provide the actual statistics showing that 9/11 Truth is the majority position, and then GMS comes along to tear up the goal posts and plant them in Peru, saying it doesn't matter what 180 million Americans believe, because they believe in Jesus and angels and the parting of the Red Sea.

TH, nobody said 180 million people believe the inside job theories. Who cares how many nut cases believe inside job theories? It's a 9/11 Truth movement, calling for new investigations because the official reports are clearly whitewashes. It's not a 9/11 Inside Job movement.

You believe it's an inside job. You're constantly babbling about how the Bush administration destroyed the towers by planting invisible silent explosives and magic spray-on thermite.

Nobody here is arguing with anyone who thinks the government was asleep at the wheel in the months leading up to 9/11. And pretending that such people are the same as you and your obsession with magic thermite elves is to be expected from a worthless liar like you.

A 2013 poll by Public Policy Polling found that 11% of Americans believe the US government knowingly allowed the 9/11 attacks to happen.http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2011/PPP_Release_National_ConspiracyTheories_040213.pdf

According to the same poll, 14% of Americans believe in Bigfoot or Sasquatch, 13% believe Barack Obama is the anti-Christ, and 15% believe the media or the government adds secret mind-controlling technology to TV broadcast signals.

I hear you Brian, where were the angels on 9/11? Over 1/2 of the people believe in them. So we need an investigation to find out why they either let it happen, or helped it happen. Are you saying over 1/2 of Americans are wrong? Do you not believe in democracy?

"...my very conservative estimate of 30 million Truthers comes from the Scripps Howard poll of 2006,"

Oh yes, the 2006 Scripps Howard poll... Truthtards love that one. They wave it around like it meant something, but leave out the fact that 60% of the 'believers" were Democrats, thus suggesting knee-jerk politcal motivation behind their answer.

What the poll really reveals is how stupid, and gullible people are.

"by which 16% of Americans were willing to tell a pollster that they considered it very likely or somewhat likely that explosives were planted in the twin towers."

Meaning 84% of Americans are not stupid a-holes.

(Note this poll was taken before ae911truth even started.)

Yes, they jumped on a bandwagon looking to score easy cash from morons like you.

None of you can refute the observation that Pat has no evidence to support his claim that the 9/11 truth movement has a higher incidence of mental illness than does the general population.

Of course it would greatly aid the discussion if we could rigorously define the terms "truther" and "twoofer" "member of the 9/11 truth movement" and "prominent member of the 9/11 Truth movement"--but I can't expect rigor from a bunch of people whose fondness for confirmation bias of their preconceived beliefs precludes any interest in either facts or analysis.

I use a very broad definition of truthers--anyone who is suspicious of the official story and/or believes in the need for new investigations. This broad definition would include Jimmy Carter and Amy Goodman. By this measure there see 30 million to 180 million of us.

You tend to use a very narrow definition of "truthers". By making moonbattery a necessary qualification for your truthers, you can dishonestly claim that a few flakes and nutcases represent the entirety of the movement.

And then there's the problem of defining the "Truth Movement". Anybody can publish a book these says, and there are a lot of wacko 9/11 books out there. Publishing a book about 9/11 does not make one a prominent member of the truth movement. Anybody with anti-government attitudes and the gift of gab can get an internet radio show, and a radio show at an obscure web streamer hawking water filters and reloading supplies does not make one a prominent truther. Respected publications--such as those of Dr. Griffin, Dr. Scott, Dr. Rea, Dr. Zarembka--help to make one a prominent truther. Dogged visibility--such as Mr. Gage's efforts or Jon Gold's--have madethem prominent truthers. But being a truther in terms of simply expressing support for new investigations (as Amy Goodman and Jimmy Carter have done) does not make one a member of the truth movement.

Ian, the reason other truthers like Scootle and Jon have abandoned this board is that it's so thinly trafficked there's no point in posting, and the tolerance for the Lying Iananity of a lying Ianinny in the comments makes the discussion very juvenile.

The main reason I post is because this is just about the last public forum in the world that shows any love for Willie Rodriguez, and I want to see if he has the guts to try to deny the facts: He stole his story from a dead hero and his claims of 15 rescues and hundreds saved are lies. He doesn't have the guts. And those recent "fabulous" photos seem to be an exclusive for ScrewLooseChange. I can't find them anywhere on the net. Is it possible, Pat, that you were fooled by phony pictures from a false flag prankster--and now neither you nor Willie want to admit they were fake?

GMS, I don't consider angels to be a very significant issue. Arthur Conan Doyle believed in faeries--the Tinkerbelle kind.

mgf--if you want to prove how smart you are, go and finish college. Your feeble witticisms here are counterproductive. Why don't you try JREF? They go in for that kind of crap over there.

GMS, angels are not significant because they have no been used as a justification for public policy issues--and certainly not to justify torture, illegal wars, and a 12-year assault on our Constitutional rights.

According to Webster Tarpley, in 9/11 Synthetic Terror: Made in USA, Cheney was informed of a threat which said "Angel is next". We need a truly unbiased investigation with subpoena power to find out the TRUTH about the angels!

'I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, "George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan." And I did, and then God would tell me, "George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq ." And I did. And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, "Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East." And by God I'm gonna do it.'"

Everyone knows God some times speaks through angels. Why isn't this being investigated?

I provide the actual statistics showing that 9/11 Truth is the majority position, and then GMS comes along to tear up the goal posts and plant them in Peru, saying it doesn't matter what 180 million Americans believe, because they believe in Jesus and angels and the parting of the Red Sea.

Point is, as you obviously missed as you always have, appeals to authority are useless.

Any idiot can get a Masters Degree, Ian, and you're proof that any idiot does

I debated Willie on this blog many, many times, and I kicked his fat, jiggly ass every time, proving that his impossible hero tales were lies.

Here I am; here he is not. The fact that his "fabulous" pictures with the Clintons (he probably morphed his face with that of Esai Morales) have not been picked up by any 9/11 truth organization anywhere--not even the fake ones like truthjihad and veteranstoday--gives the lie to your claim that Willie is considered a hero by the truth movement. Very clearly Willie's fraudulence is known in the truth movement---but you guys here at SLC aren't smart enough to see what every janitor, locksmith, security guard, fireman, police officer, architect, and lawyer in the world knows: the office workers were not locked in!

John, I'm not sure what you mean by the "Dancing Mormons" notion, but the "Dancing Israelis" and "Picture Van" incidents have some surprising implications when you give some thought to the context.

Before 9/11 the Mossad had many dozens of spies in the US in the "art students" spy ring, and some of these were domiciled in close proximity to alleged 9/11 hijackers. Of course this could be a coincidence, that both the Mossadniks and the alleged hijackers lived in the lowest-rent districts. But it could mean that the Mossad was keeping an eye on the alleged al Qaeda agents.

Before 9/11 many dozens of these Mossad spies were deported en masse, and the Mossad warned US intelligence that 19 terrorists were inside the US planning something big. They named names. Only four of the names have been released, but two of these were alleged 9/11 ringleader Mohammed Atta and another alleged 9/11 pilot, and two of these were known al Qaeda agents Nawaf Alhazmi and Khalid Almihdhad--known by both the FBI and the CIA to be inside the USA, and both of whom had lived with an FBI informant in San Diego.

The FBI debated about whether to do a full-scale criminal investigation of these two, or a limited intelligence investigation. They opted for the latter, and assigned the investigation to a rookie in NYC.Within a few days he was on their trail and wanted to run a credit card check. His supervisor, Dana Corsi, said this was a bad idea. Bob Woodward wrote that the credit card check would have turned up the fact that these two known al Qaeda agents had purchased ten airline tickets dated 9/11/01 under their own real names. Khalid Almihdhar had recently lived in Yemen for a year in a known al Qaeda communications hub that was electronically monitored by the NSA and the CIA both.

The Mossad warned. Consider that the Mossad is the best intelligence agency in the world. Consider that the "Dancing Israelis" dressed up as Arabs and conspicuously demonstrated with high fives and upraised cigarette lighters when the second plane hit, and consider that they were there with a van emblazoned with the name of their employer, Urban Moving Systems, at the time. Consider that they were arrested several hours later in the very same van, which had boxcutters, thousands in cash, and explosive residue inside.

Do you really think that Mossad agents could possibly be so dumb as to get arrested if it was not their orders to get arrested?

Then let's look at the Picture Van. It was stopped a few blocks from the temporary security HQ in Manhattan on 9/11. It was painted with a mural showing an airplane diving into Manhattan. It was stopped on suspicion, but its drivers were let go when it was determined that they were Middle Eastern nationals who did not speak English. Now can you imagine that Eqyptians, Saudis, Jordanians, Syrians, Lebanese, Iraqis, or Iranians would have been let go just like that? No way! So the drivers must have been Israelis.

So what does this tell us? It tells us that the Mossad knew about the upcoming attacks, it tells us that they warned the US intel apparatus, it tells us that their warnings were ignored, and it tells us that they went to the moon to insert in the public record the fact that they knew.

A related issue is that the bigots seized on both the Dancing Israelis meme and the Silverstein "pull it" meme in a predictable manner, and tracking these memes through its channels in the cybersphere provided intelligence data of enormous utility in identifying the bigots to the Mossad.