Yeah, I realize I'm interrupting a conversation by going back to topic, but netiquette disappeared when just anyone could get on the net. Those of us who remember dialing BBS systems at 300 baud know that rules were stated and followed or you were banned. Period. (Those of you who remember 110 baud actually pre-date me--and the microwave, and the VCR, etc. but that's another topic.) Sorry to say, but enthusiasts follow ettiquette and amateurs don't.

Any golfer, disc-golfer, skeet-shooter, swimmer, karateka, or <insert enthusiast activity here> can spot an enthusiast from an amateur by the application of ettiquette on their playing field of choice. I used to post frequently to USENet before it died of exposure. Anyone remember when USENet was an awesome repository for anything other than porn? Now it's died of spam and penile overdose.

Want there to be decorum and ettiquette? Limit access to those users who really care and kick everyone else out. Simple.

kilikopele wrote:Yeah, I realize I'm interrupting a conversation by going back to topic, but netiquette disappeared when just anyone could get on the net. Those of us who remember dialing BBS systems at 300 baud know that rules were stated and followed or you were banned. Period.

Well, I only go back as far as a 14K modem and IRC, but...

Want there to be decorum and ettiquette? Limit access to those users who really care and kick everyone else out. Simple.

Yes, that approach might help, perhaps even reducing the odor of fish in this forum......but from what I remember of IRC, you ended up with a lot of empty channels.

Things move on, and while there are still IRC networks out there, IM has sort of stolen their audience.

I stopped using IRC mainly because I found that limited channels over time became slowly shrinking domains ruled by increasingly intolerant OPs, but the unlimited channels were flooded with bots and idiots.. maybe it's time I went back again....

The beauty and the horror of the internet is that it has become ubiquitous, it only used to be geeks swapping email addresses in pubs.

The sig between the asterisks is so cool that only REALLY COOL people can even see it!

Its not just netiquette that has died, etiquette in general has died a death. Just look at some of the drivers on our roads nowadays, let alone the music scene.

Easiest way to avoid it is either to stop speaking or to talk absolute rubbish until everyone except those smart enough to realise what you are doing dissappear off, unfortunately some are not smart enough to do that nowadays.

Ahem! I think you will find many enthusiasts are amateurs. Perhaps "dabbler" would be a better word than amateur. I have never thought much of the pejorative use of the word amateur, given its derivation.

kilikopele wrote:Those of us who remember dialing BBS systems at 300 baud know that rules were stated and followed or you were banned.

I started with a 14.4 us robotics thing, the size of a sheet of A4 + 3" thick!

Anyone remember when USENet was an awesome repository for anything other than porn?

I never remember USENet ever being an awesome repository for porn, it took ages to download and was terrible quality.......ehhh, so I've heard...

Now it's died of spam and penile overdose.Want there to be decorum and ettiquette? Limit access to those users who really care and kick everyone else out. Simple.

And I thought I won the award for most sounding like Victor Meldrew. Elitist crap! USENet is still a valuable resource with plenty of people contributing their time and knowledge. If you don't like a group, then move on, like-minded people will be drawn to content where they feel happiest. USENet, IRC, IM, Blogs, SN, BBS, Planets etc etc There's enough choice for everyone.

Rhakios wrote:Ahem! I think you will find many enthusiasts are amateurs. Perhaps "dabbler" would be a better word than amateur. I have never thought much of the pejorative use of the word amateur, given its derivation.

Semantics. Gotta love em. I accept your alternative.

Actually, as I thought this over (especially Nordle calling me elitist--ouch) I realized I was being harsh, but not without reason. I guess I am a bit burned out from having to "move on" as Nordle puts it. For example, I used to frequent several rec.audio forums and, as they filled up with flamers and spammers, I moved on. I used to golf at this decent and inexpensive course in Richfield. Eventually, enough people discovered this cheap little gem and eventually it wasn't worth going back because of groups of inconsiderate people tore up the course and refused to follow even the most basic of ettiquette rules. Again, I moved on.

I think I've gotten a bit ragged about moving on and it's not amateurs, dabblers, or any other term for beginner you want to throw out there. There are several beginners who actually CARE enough about contributing or learning that they are actually a joy to work with.

It's the courtesy thing. Ettiquette, Courtesy, a general Caring about living in a world populated with others. I've just spent a day of travel from Minnesota to Boston with a lousy layover in Detroit due to snow. In the several lines in which I've stood today, only the hostess who checked me into my hotel actually said Thank you to me. As I think back over my day, it's almost laughable. I have gone out of my way to say Please and Thank You to every cashier, attendant, cab driver, etc I've dealt with. I've said Excuse me as I edge past travellers who clearly saw me coming yet refused to yield an inch from the middle of the corridor they were blocking. (Am I ranting?)

So to Rhakios, you're right. It's not even "amateurs" that I was really lashing out at. It's virgins to courtesy that (especially on a long travel day) are really dragging me down.

Like everything, it's best to watch and keep quiet before trying to get involved, be it IRC, USENET or what have you. The Nintendo website forums actually force you to read other posts before you can say anything (that is, you can't post unless you've been a member for three days and have read 50+ other messages). That helps to combat loads of nonsense.

kilikopele and wyliecoyoteukOh, now you're just being reasonable, you'll get nowhere in this miserable, dog-eat-dog world behaving like that.

Some of the most pleasant days out I have had have been nothing special, but simply days on which I have encountered almost exclusively polite people (a rare thing, but it has happened). The feeling of mild contentment it engenders is something I value greatly. It might even cause me to respond politely to 1sf (troll), or maybe not.

I just know that a smile and parakalo or efharisto, in Corfu, often got me a dazzling smile from a shop girl or waitress (especially when the customer before me was a grumpy American or British tourist).
Much the same in Spain or France (mind you, I can speak French, after a fashion). In Japan, I never got the chance, everyone there seems to want to practice their English on you.
Belgium, I made the mistake of thinking that because my grandmother came from there and spoke French as her native language, so would all other Belgians. Quite a shock to discover most of the country spoke Flemish.
Mind you, it probably wouldn't work in America.

Actually, does anyone what streetkid for please and thankyou is this year?
I know that sorry was "soz" last year, around here.

The sig between the asterisks is so cool that only REALLY COOL people can even see it!