Welcome to the Just Plain Folks forums! You are currently viewing our forums as a Guest which gives you limited access to most of our discussions and to other features.

By joining our free community you will have access to post and respond to topics, communicate privately with our users (PM), respond to polls, upload content, and access many other features. Registration is fast, simple, and absolutely free; so please join our community today!

I welcome any and all feedback and criticism. I plan to remove the vocal from the recording and use the instrumentals as a backing track for solo variety performances I do. In these gigs, I usually serve as background music for the most part (parties, events, etc.). Trying to start working in some originals :-)

Finally... we get to hear the music and vocal from the man of many words. I would say this one is "country pop" if a genre tag must be applied... and I thought your vocal was strong and very capable. Enjoyed the lyric and was impressed with your guitar work. The backing blended well and I was delighted to finally hear some of your music. Best of luck with this one. ----Dave

Reading the lyric first I thought it had a few things on the cliche-ish side, such like "wings" and "wrong/right" but you were careful to tweak the phrases so they're not the most common way we hear them used.

Listening..I love hearing a sophisticated chord progression in a country tune. Rarely do ya hear a dominant seventh flat nine chord, but it works great here, and does give the song a bit of a "country-jazz" feel. From this song, I'd say you listen to John Hiatt, cuz the way you heat up reminds me of his work on "Bring the Family" Check out his original version of "Have a Little Faith In Me" If you are looking for songs to add to your show--I know you'd tear it up in similar fashion. You have a soulful voice and I enjoyed hearing it and hope to hear more.

Mike

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 02/02/1803:30 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choiceFortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)from the song "Songs of Love"from the album "Casanova" (1996)

Well I have to say I never expected country. As others have pointed out, you use some delightful little jazz chords in there that are reminiscent of Willie Nelson, or Ray Charles, and that lends a charming nostalgic factor.

Being part of a professional Nashville Songwriter's group, I am used to what some lovingly call the meat grinder, blender, dicer and chopper. When you submit songs in that crowd, even if they are Grammy award-winning worthy (in your own mind) you can expect them to get shredded and pounded to a pulp if everything is not 110% in the pocket and every guitar line is not absolute perfection. I am used to this crowd so it rolls right off my back. Let's just say it can get rough out there.

The song is nice and sweet and romantic and the chord progression is pleasing. Nonetheless, if you were to talk "production" with any number of pros here, they would more than likely make some suggestions about various aspects of the "pocket." I am not going to go there because I just want to enjoy the song for what it is. But if you want no holds barred feedback on the rhythm, pacing, tempo, percussion, pocket, or even the guitar voicings that are being used in the solo (if you plan on doing a commercial production) that is something some of your forum friends might chat with you gracefully about offline, and offer some tips and specific suggestions.

I am glad to see you posting and hope this forum gives you a chance to experiment and grow in whatever form you want to take it.

Personally, the way I roll is this--when I am posting a tune here, I am basically saying, I had fun with this y'all, hope you have fun too. I think that is what you were doing here as well, with this tune.

Offline, and behind closed doors with my musical colleagues, things get a little more open, like, "David, that was pretty much the worst guitar solo I have ever heard in my life. You gotta do it again." But, as I say, among the comforting arms of friends and colleagues while we are actually in the studio and I have the chance to do that second take.

If you don't already (and you probably do) you may want to think about having both approaches in your life as you venture forth into the brave new world of online posting. I am pretty sure I am singing to the choir here, however.

Good to be able to hear your art, Maroon, but I did not see this coming! What I find the most intriquing is the unexpected chord progressions, keeping me riveted throughout. And the unusal phrasing. And the different structure. Oh yeah, and the expressive vocal. Well yeah, just able eveything, from start to finish! I enjoyed every bit of your very unique style and, unlike some others, I don't mind being honest about saying this in public...no PM required. Hope to hear more in the future.

This song is really heartfelt. I like the gentle melody and the time you take to tell this story. The music lifts you up and takes a hold of you. I can see couples dancing to this song. And as the song progresses, after that lovely solo, I enjoyed how the emotion builds and really opens up.

Very nicely played and sung. A really lovely song!

Kristi

A musician must make music, an artist must paint, a poet must write,if he is to be ultimately at peace with himself. What a man can be,he must be. -- Abraham Maslow, American Psychologist

Guilty as charged on general verbosity! Yep, I think of it as a Country ballad. I am glad that you enjoyed it, Dave. I can't take credit for any of the instrumentation as it all came from ďBand in a BoxĒ software.

Mike,

Yeah, there are some lyrics on the cliche side which may bear taking another look at. I guess that in a way I thought that they might work to my favor in giving it a feel of familiarity, but it could be heard as trite.

The song owes a lot to old-time Jazz which I believe had a good deal of influence on Western music of the past. I wrote my first version of this song a number of years back and either consciously or sub-consciously I started the song with some of the chord relationships from the old standard "Makin' Whoopee".

While I was unfamiliar with him, that John Hiatt tune is really nice. I almost recorded a live piano part (albeit much simpler than Hiatt's) to go along with this recording, but thought it sounded fine without it. I like his unexpected key change up a full 5th late in the song. Makes me wonder about adding a key change into this song to break it up...

9ne/ Mike,

Glad you enjoyed it and those two are definitely artists I've listened to a good bit, especially Charles.

Calvin,

Also glad you enjoyed.

David,

Glad to surprise you. While I didn't set out to be nostalgic, I do agree that it comes across as such.

Iím not sure what everything you are saying on about your methods of posting feedback has to do with the song Iíve posted here. Iíve certainly surmised that you don't care for my style of feedback. While I donít care to debate it, Iím sorry you don't like it.

I understand and respect your intentions in posting your music here in the feedback forum. Mine are different. I'm open to hearing any ideas, criticisms, etc. with the possibility of altering things or using the ideas in future work. I feel like critique on the composition itself will be the most useful to me. You are more than welcome to make specific suggestions on production. Just bear in mind my intended use for the recording in the casual solo performances I mentioned in my original post.

Nelson,

Glad you enjoyed it. Are you saying that the guitar solo reminds you of Willie?

Ricki,

Glad to surprise you too! Good to hear that the harmony maintained interest. I didn't really think too much about the phrasing, but you are right - it is a bit different. I think that, like the chords, it owes something to the old song "Makin Whoopee". As far as the structure, it is a 32-bar form using an AABA pattern in the 8-bar phrases - very common to Jazz standards such as "I've Got Rhythm" and many others. Glad you enjoyed.

Kristi,

Glad you enjoyed it and that the lyrics came across as heartfelt, which was my intent. Also great to hear that it is danceable as I was kind of envisioning a slow dance ambiance with this recording. An emotional response to the song is more than I could hope for!

Again, thanks to all and feel free to add any further critique that strikes you.

It sounds good as is. The only thing I think could improve it is to bring that rhythm guitar up a bit in the mix and/or give it more left channel presence since it is laying down the bulk of the harmonic progression. If you double tracked that part it would sound amazing - something to think about.

I like it here. To me it sounded like Broadway, as I could easily hear this in a play or movie. So the steel gtr took me a bit out of that mood. Not that it didnt sound good, just that I didnt really connected with it for the imagined genre I had.

Best parts was all the clever internal rhymes you put in, and the way you stretched in your vocals towards the end. Loved that!

If anything, I could imagine adding another instrument to the mix after the guitar break, to support your vocals towards the end. perhaps just let the guitar pla some licks.

I'd also suggest to try the song more simply with just a piano "a piacere", like they would on broadway. To me, that would make the song complete.

I do have a few potential style ideas for "production" I just don't like saying them in a public forum because I don't want to come across as being "critical" or a "jerk" on a perfectly lovely song that is absolutely fine the way it is. It is as simple as that. I just do not feel comfortable in making certain comments about tempo and genre and stuff out loud in public but I will send one or two extremely simple and extremely polite suggestions via PM and you can use them if you want. But I may be totally off base, who knows. Since you are using Band in a Box on this, my comments may not be feasible, so I would prefer to PM.

Again, I like the song exactly the way it is, but I have a few ideas for alternate takes. If what I am about to send via PM is off base, I will never ever ever send another PM suggestion to you again, I promise. If it does make sense, I may do it again in the future only with your permission. It is simply what I feel most comfortable with--especially if you are simply making a simple, generic Band in a Box backing track and alterations do not lie within the realm of possibility, feasibility or even desire.

I have listened a couple of times. I stink at love songs so can't really make any comments lyric wise re: content, although the lyric seems a little generic when you read it without hearing the music. I hear a complex structure working in the language and it sings way better than it reads because of this.

I liked Kolstad's suggestion of a solo piano/voice version as an alternative version.

Your voice is amazing. I was wondering if you put some "country" in your voice for this? Loved how you sang "wangs" like Guy Clark or Dave Carter would.

This may be good/bad but I feel like there's a Randy Newman like quality to this. Which makes me enjoy it even more, I think. It's too bad that you are going to use it as backing music for now. If you get to perform it live the ladies will love it.

Makin' Whoopie! I knew I was hearing some old number in your chord progression. Of course! I'm familiar with the Nilsson version of that song--it kept bugging me, it sounded so familiar. Thanks for saying.

I've listen to your song a few more times and think this must go over really well live. I bet you're quite the showman, just judging from how you let loose a little on this recording..

Wendy, I was thinking the same thing while I listened. Randy Newman, especially his early songs and soundtracks like "Ragtime" are full of bass movement that is incremental, with a lot of rising and sometimes decending half steps that are not always the chord roots but sometimes the thirds, and over those bass notes are secondary dominant chords--it's a distinct sound that few practice anymore. This song does that. Van Dyke Parks does it, Brian Wilson did it, Randy Newman did and continues to write that way. I love that "parlor music" sound--you really get a sense of a different time and place with that kind of chordal movement..

Mike

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 02/04/1803:57 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choiceFortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)from the song "Songs of Love"from the album "Casanova" (1996)

Interesting you hear some AC in it - thatís cool. I appreciate the feedback on the rhythm guitar. There is one strumming and one fingerpicking throughout. I get so accustomed and intimate with the harmony that I probably hear a lot of it in my head. Iíll experiment with bringing it up and/ or adding a duplicate track of it.

While I canít take credit for the canned guitar recordings Iím using, Iím glad you enjoyed the song.

Kolstad,

Even though I wouldnít have expected it, I can understand your hearing Broadway. The song that provided some harmonic inspiration came from a 1920ís musical originally. I guess there arenít many country musicals other than Oklahoma! Funny - the couple of people I played this for were wanting to hear more steel guitar, but they were listening to it as a Country song.

Glad the internal rhymes were a benefit! The old school hip hop I sometimes listen to may be an influence there. And yeah, some added guitar licks or violins or something would be a nice touch after the solo - I might have to see what I can do there.

You know, I actually did a quick recording of an earlier version with piano and vocals only. Iíll post it below. Iíll also post a quick take with piano in a Jazz style due to your feedback and othersí. Thanks for the remarks!

Barry,

Iím glad to know it came across as genuine. There are definitely some warts! And that was after 5 takes on the vocal in my jury-rigged setup. I identify, though. I heard some cracks and stuff and thought ďI kind of like it like that a little - imperfectĒ. Now some of the pitch inaccuracy, Iím not exactly thrilled with. Thanks.

David,

Sounds just great.

Wendy,

The lyrics are a bit generic, arenít they? Iím trying to decide how much of a negative that is. While I like to write lyrics, I donít consider myself a true lyricist. I wonder if I were to look over the most popular slow dance songs throughout the decades how much overlap and generic wording I would find. Maybe I can make a casual project out of itÖ It was definitely written with the melody in mind - glad to hear it sings well.

Due to your, Kolstadís, and othersí recommendation, Iíll paste a link to an older version below with piano only, as well as a quick Jazz rendition with piano.

While amazing is definitely an overstatement, Iím glad you liked the vocals. I definitely Country-fied it up a bit with pronunciations and yodel-y things. But if you had heard me speak as a young child in rural NC with parents from the mountains, my speech patterns might not have sounded so different. I still remember my 2nd grade African American teacher trying to get me to pronounce the word ďwhiteĒ correctly and laughing all over herself.

Yeah, Randy Newman does seem to use chord patterns like these in some of his songs like you and Mike are saying. And while I will definitely be singing it live when solo, Iím now seriously considering giving my Jazz group a lead sheet to try playing it on gigs - with all live instruments of course. And if the women like it, thatís good for everyone in my experience!

Mike,

You bet, glad to scratch the itch and name that tune. Iíve never performed this live, so weíll see. While Iím not a great showman by any means, Iíll definitely try to sell it. As Ella Fitzgerald sang, ďĎTaint What You Do, Itís the Way That You Do ItĒ!

And yeah, I did end up using a number of bass notes that werenít the chord root! I seem to remember Jaco Pastorius doing a lot of that with Weather Report, too.

Floyd,

Glad to take you down memory lane a bit. I think that there are a lot of Country fans who long for some nods to the past. I never thought anyone would mention Ronnie Milsap. He and Alabama were probably the Country artists my mom played the most in the house growing up as a kid, so they definitely influence the vocal. Take a look at my links below for piano renditions.

Links regarding the above comments:

Prior recording of an earlier abbreviated version with piano and voice only (different key, some slight melody and chord differences) - Earlier Demo

Quick new recording of the song with piano and voice only, but in a Jazz style (in a key too low for me, with the mic too close to my face, and struggling with my poor piano skills) - Jazz Style Demo

Very cool, Maroon. Love the melody and chord progression. Can't pin it to a genre. Your voice is country but I don't think the song is. More like Great American songbook. I can hear Willie Nelson doing this, as others have mentioned. Musically, it also has the feel that Dylan had on parts of Love and Theft. Just a really pleasing piece!

I really like your song, such a great vibe and emotional ride! Vocals very Willie Nelson-esk for me--yet a wider vocal range you possess. I think you have a winner. For me production-wise, I'd like to hear a fairly dominant piano supported by the other instruments--JMO. Loved this, and welcome back around.......but take it easy with your critiquing fingers, else you may wear them out and we'd lose ya--don't want that--kidding you!

Hi Maroon: (Is that really your name? I ask because most of the folks here, per Brian's request,actually use their real names in their posts.) After all, relationships in this business are more important than ever. (Then, of course, you may be using a "nom-de-plume" to keep "hangers-on" from swamping you with autograph requests, gherming you with CD's and memory sticks... or other time consuming aggravations.) Given today's Internet problems, it may be a security measure for you... but it would be nice to know... if you are to gain our trust and eventual support at JPF.

Having said all that, please do that which makes you comfortable. Since I've "chided" you before about not posting songs (and now you have)... you may wonder why I only post songs demoed by others here at JPF? Although I sing, I am not real pleased with my vocals and do not feel the need for critiques. I write to please myself, first and foremost... but always with the intention of having singers/performers with talent... do covers of my work so I can be plugged into the income stream. I tend to be my own worst critic and will re-cut a song at the drop of a hat.... if I hear something that sounds less than what I seek in the message and genre of the recording. Few, if any of my recordings are perfect but I do the best I can with what I have available.

I do post my songs on another free site, usually four or five at a time and then "replace them" with a different set from my catalog about two weeks later... even sooner if the number of listens exceeds my target objective based on past listening history. (refer to the link below my name) For years, I spent more time at the Song Ramp than here at JPF... but it has announced that it will be closing it's doors by the end of 2018 unless a miracle happens. Many of the stalwarts there have died, retired or just given up. They are attempting to establish a Facebook Group. Many of their current members are also here at JPF. We do what we must to "promote" our Music.

Very early in your post of this song, you gave us the caveat that you cannot take credit for the instruments being used for most of the backing. To me, the backing is only important insofar as it helps get the gist of the song across by enhancing the sound and vibe of what you intend. Frank Sinatra did not play any instruments in his recordings, (maybe a piano from time to time) nor did he direct the orchestra or do many or most of his arrangements. The overall effect is all that is important. I don't care if you recruit the Dalai Lama to play one of those long, weird horns or beat a gong while spinning a prayer wheel. Music is music whether it comes from a kazoo (as Wendy used recently) or BIAB... or an Arranger Keyboard such as the one I use. We must do what we can to make our songs as attractive to our audience as possible.

I just wanted you to know. Things have certainly livened-up since your arrival... and I believe it enhances our knowledge and understanding. Use of laymen's terms would be more informative because most of us are not musicians. Thanks for your participation and for caring enough to comment. ----Dave

I wish I could give you as thoughtful a critique as you cared to give on my ownóalas, thereís nothing on this real, real pretty song on which my thoughts and limited skills could add value. What I can say is that your vocal, IMHO, helps make this song; itís honest and compelling, in the way that makes one want to keep listening. And really, itís that chord progression (as others have noted) that pulls you in. Iím less troubled than others by the lyrics relying on some more basic or used elements; to me, if it works within the framework of the song and best expresses what you are intending to expressóas I think it does hereóthen go with it. Ultimately, it's the marriage of words and sound that makes a song sing. The whole, IMHO, is often more than itís parts. To me, the words here strike true with the melody.

That said, Iím guessing that if you are thinking of doing something commercial with this, then length might be a challenge. But Iíve never been one to advocate shoehorning a song into someone elseís expectations of how long a good song should be.

Maroon really enjoyed this, just a solid all around song. Hey my " two cents? don`t ever stop giving those great critiques you know if you do you`ll be flooded with requests to look at songs and posts...just my thought. I had a song was killing me, I couldn`t write it...had it around forever.I asked "m.a.b to take a look? then

I threw it out...lol, damn where were you when I started that damn thing....lol "just say`n...be you "man..

I enjoyed the main version of your song and felt it would be right at home in the big band era.All very professional in my opinion.But the jazz version wooo hooo that just blows me away.The phrasing and intimacy make the song more personal and just my cup of tea.Sorry I'm not up to technical reviews.

Very sorry to unearth this thread again, but I wanted to respond to the thoughtful remarks. I've gotten kind of busy here lately!

Scott - Your intuition regarding the underpinnings of the song rings true. My big question is whether the song would resonate with a Country audience or if it would sound too far afield for most. I still haven't made the opportunity to try it out live as of yet in a solo variety setting. Glad you enjoyed it.

Eddie - Glad to hear the vibe connected with you emotionally. I suppose that's what it's all about in the end! I am also glad you are hearing piano. I am going to try to add it in. You can hear a bit of it in a link in one of my prior posts above. And yes, I am in danger of wearing out my typing fingers at (many) times!

Martin - Terrific that you are able to envision slow dancing to the tune. That was a big goal of mine. If it is Texas-approved, then my worries are few ;-)

Dave - I do use a stage name to keep my day job and music work separate. It's also hopefully a bit easier for folks to spell, pronounce, and remember than my given name. You can find it here on my LinkedIn profile - http://bit.ly/2ptAA0DWhile I never really wondered about it, I can certainly understand being hesitant to share one's work when it doesn't exactly match the aural vision you have. I hear what you are saying regarding accompaniment. As an instrumentalist, I suppose I have a "thing" about seemingly taking undue performance credit, even though it doesn't necessarily apply in this setting. So glad to hear that I have enhanced your experience to any degree and you are certainly welcome. And while I definitely consider you and everyone else here on JPF to be musicians, I understand what you mean about using non-technical verbiage! I don't want to condescend as I know that many terms are known to some writers here, so I lean (perhaps too much) towards erring on the side of caution. If you are like me, you end up doing a websearch for a lot of unknown terms anyway!

Deej - Your critique is thoughtful indeed! I'm glad it comes across to you as honest. I think that feeling is important in a song. A lot of that chord progression comes from a history of use in standards and it does a good job. I would agree that the whole of a song is greater than the sum of its parts. By themselves the lyrics certainly don't look like much. Glad they worked for you when paired with the music.I'm surprised that you are the first person to mention length! When I listened to my finished recording, one of my first thoughts was "It's too long". I think I may pick up the tempo and/ or cut a section of it when performing it. Glad you enjoyed it.

Ricki - I love to do scat vocal improvisation. I love it maybe even a bit too much of it when performing Jazz! I think that I would always prefer performing Jazz over other idioms, but I do like the variety of different genres very much.

Lane - Glad you liked listening to it and even though I don't know about getting flooded with requests, thanks for the encouragement. Sometimes, I wish I could stop being myself, but I guess that's hard to do, lol! Regards.

Rich - No apology necessary and thanks for your remarks. Due to your feedback and the feedback of others, I'll definitely have to try performing the song with my Jazz group!

I really enjoyed your song. The chord progression is so cool...some surprises here and there as well...I LOVE that. I for one though (and it's just a personal opinion) don't hear this as country. Who's to say though that it can't be though. As far as your lyric goes, I like a lot of your lines..."Rest your head upon my chest, hear my soul confess"...I just love that. Your voice is exquisite...perfectly suited for this I think.