Methinks you have you mind made up and want to reinforce your decision..
Like I said its your money spend it where you wish, I could not care less.
You might want to ask yourself this question. If Toyotas are that good why
are the NOT the number one seller, in ANY segment of the market, other than
the Camry in the mid size class? Why does one see so many Toyotas being
traded in on other brands? Look in used are lots of other brands and see
the Toyotas there for yourself.
Toyota does indeed make good stuff, but all other manufactures are building
good stuff today as well. Buying one particular brand thinking it will be
even marginally batter than any other is a myth. Every survey shows between
1% and 2% of all manufactures vehicles have defects in the first five years,
which means around 98% of all manufactures vehicles do not have defects in
the first five years.
With my experience in the business people are always asking my advice on
which to buy. My answer is go drive all those that meet your needs, then
get a TOTAL DRIVE HOME and buy the one you like that best suits your budget.
;)
mike hunt
wrote in message Toyota parts can

Nope, mind not made up yet. The list has narrowed from my first choices.
I'm still going to drive and price a couple of makes and models. As I
said, Lucerne was a shoe in until recently, but then I got hit with that big
tranny bill.

I just did some checking. Toyota parts may be 5% to 10% more. Hardly
"three times as much." There's also aftermarket parts available, just like
for GMs, at the same prices.
You're better off buying a Toyota and shopping around for parts and service.
Need brakes or exhaust? Skip the major brake-and-muffler chains, work with
an independent mechanic. Saved $130 last month doing that.

You are entitled to you own opinion but it is the opinion of a minority.
GM, Ford and Chrysler sold 57% of all the vehicles sold in the US in 2005.
It took all of the other twenty some import brands combined to sell the
remaining 43% . The fact remains GM sells more vehicles in the US than any
other. In reality the best selling import brand is only in fourth place,
preceded by Chrysler and Ford. More American obviously prefer domestics
If you want to spend a lot more money to buy an import brand hopping you
will get one of their 98% that are trouble free, rather than spending less
to get one of the domestics 98% that are trouble free, you are free to do
so. I prefer to buy the one that best suits my needs and meets my budget.
I have never owned a vehicle, foreign or domestic, that had problems in any
event.
mike hunt

Mike,
You forget that while the domestics may have 57% of the market, their
share keeps declining. We all know that is less than 5 years the
"imports" which include domestically made/assembled Toyotas, Hondas,
Nissans etc. will take more than 50% of the market. Unfortunately the
domestics with limited exceptions have not been making sytlish cars
which have been Detriots strength. If they did buys would come back.
Look at the Chyrsler 300, Dodge Charger, Ford Mustang etc.
BTW, I have only owned Chrysler products.
Mike Hunter wrote:

GM paid out hundreds of thousand to repair vehicles with problematic
gaskets, as well. It depends on when the problem occurred, warranties that
were extended by the manufactures to help in recover the costs, where
limited in time/mileage like any other warranty. If you problem occurred
outside the time/mileage limit you would not be reimbursed. Ford warranty
was 100K 7 years. Other were different, Toyota was five years unlimited
mileage, if I recall correctly.
mike hunt

GM extends the warranty for 3.1/3.4 intake manifold
gasket repairs on all their vehicles. They also extend their
warranty on any head gasket problems on the the 3.4 engine.
They also warranty pretty much any and all brake problems
right to the end of the 3 year warranty. This was not the
case a few years ago. This includes brakes wearing out, and
brake pulsation problems.
We do so much goodwill warranty at our dealership it's not
funny. Which only goes to show you that the GM product
has some serious problems at the moment. It will take a
while to weed out all the 3.1/3.4 engines. At this point,
there are very few problems with other engines in the
GM lineup.
Ian

Well thank you Ian. This is the first time I've seen someone actually state
this with any credibility. What is the warranty extension on the 3.1 and
the 3.4 intake gaskets? Mileage, Age,? How about the 3.4 head gasket?

Any vehicle with the 3.1/3.4 engine will automatically be
repaired under warranty up to 100,000 klms and 5 years...no
questions asked. Even after that, I've seen numerous goodwill
work orders go through the system. A lot depends on the
customer....and how much they patronize our dealership.
The 3.4 head gasket does a couple of things. It has two
tabs that stick out from the cylinder block/head parting
line about 1/2 an inch. We often see Dexcool seeping from
this area and crusting up as it gets burnt off from the engine
temperature. At first, we were replacing the gaskets like
crazy, until GM got wind of it and put the hammer down
on that. So no head gasket replacements if there are
just signs of dexcool crud at those points.
But the other thing that the head gaskets do is just
split. It's always along the outer edge, and it's almost
always the rear head gasket at the front edge. The split
extends into a coolant passage, so of course you end up
with a coolant leak. I've almost "never" seen a head
gasket failure that leaks coolant into a cylinder on these
engines. Probably happens, but it's very rare.
GM covers the head gaskets the same way they cover
the intake gaskets.
Believe me, GM knows they have a big problem. I think
they are hoping to smooth things over until those engines
simply disappear. The new engines that are still based on
the 3.1/3/4 design have different style gaskets and even
use a regular gasket now for end seals, instead of using
RTV (which also was big source of oil leakage from the
intake gaskets).
Any of the newer engine that do not use a wet manifold
design just don't have any of these problems. Most of
the GM engines are like this now. Another few years and
I doubt that there will be any V engines around with
wet manifolds.
Ian

That is easy to answer. There is no such thing as a 'secret' warranty.
Call a dealer, give them the VIN number and build date of the vehicle. They
can tell you what, if any, extended warranty applies and whether your
vehicle still qualifies or not. Some warranties apply to only the original
owner, however.
mike hunt

It wasn't that easy, because you answered wrong!
Call them what you want, goodwill warranty and what
you are referring to (special policies) are two different
things. A "special policy" actually extends much longer
then goodwill warranties. An example of a "special
policy" was the head gasket issue on the 2.0 engines
in certain years of Chev Cavaliers.
In the case of the above "special policy", the owners
were covered up to 7 years/160,000 klms "and" the
owners could get reimbursed if they had the work
done elsewhere and weren't aware of the fact that
there was a "special policy".
GM's goodwill warranty on the intake gaskets is
not the same as a "special policy". Personally, I
think the intake gasket issue should have become
a "special policy" issue, but I'm just the piano player.
So for the average guy, GM's goodwill policy on
the intake gaskets could easily be seen as a
"secret" warranty, as no one is going to offer up
the info to you.....but it will be available if you
happen to have the problem. You will "not" be able
to call the dealership, give them your VIN, and have
them say to you....."oh yeah....there is a "special policy"
on your intake gaskets".....because there is no such
thing on the books.
By the way, "special policies" are available thru the
online Service Information website (which only GM
people can access). So if someone wants to know if
there is any particular "special policy" that applies to
their vehicle, I can look it up for them (at my leisure, of
course).
Ian

You are missing the point, the poster has been improperly and falsely
badmouthing GM in this NG by saying GM has done nothing to help those with
gasket related problems, and that is simply not factual. GMs efforts are
well known and
I said is NO such thing as a 'secret' warranty, and that IS factual.
Whatever they are called they are not secret or YOU would not about them and
I doubt you are a Dealer Principle. How can they be secret when all one
need do is ask if their vehicle meets the programs criteria? ;)
mike hunt

are
and
Mike - once again you prove yourself the fool. I would wager 90% of GM
owners have no idea that GM will in any way stand behind the intake gasket
issues out of warranty. I've bought gaskets at the dealership and no
mention was ever made about goodwill, special policies or anything else. GM
has done nothing to publicize these "efforts" as you call them and in fact
continues to hide them in that only GM people have access to the
information. Post a url Mike, where GM's "efforts" are publicized by GM so
as to make their customers aware of them.

Have you ever tried doing what you were I instructed to do in a previous
posts, to see if your particular vehicle is covered by any of the various
gasket warranties? Apparently not, others have given you the same advice
yet you are too stupid to take it. You would rather complain about how you
have been victimized.
We replaced literally hundreds of gasket under extended warranties on GM,
Ford, Chrysler, Toyota, Honda and other vehicles during the time when they
were all having gasket problems. Methinks you the one who is the fool to
pay for a repair while many other owners in the same situation were covered
under an extended warranty. I'll waste no more time trying to enlighten
somebody who would rather bitch and moan.
mike hunt

you
Yawn. No victim here Mike. Just stating the facts, which seems to be a
foreign concept to you.
The fact is that your claim of well distributed information is precisely
*not* that. But, don't let that little thing stand in your way.

Would that be in your fleet maintenance business? Kindly equate that to the
average consumer. Apples and oranges look alike to you don't they Mike?

covered
You'd be hard pressed Mike, to come up with a high percentage of GM
customers who were unexpectedly surprised by their dealers when their intake
gaskets were announced to be covered under an extended warranty. Most
dealers simply quote the price and take the money. I never paid to have a
gasket set replaced. Your reading comprehension fails you again Mike. I
stated that I bought the gaskets from the dealer - installed them myself.
Said dealer (whom I purchased the car from), made no mention of any extended
programs that might cover this car.
If you're going to continue to participate in a forum where the written word
is the method of communication Mike, you really should learn to read.

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