His delay tactics have been abused to the max. The umpires never give him a warning. He is even allowed to take a 2 min break during the changeover in during the Tiebreak. WTF....Is everyone afraid to discipline him? Takes 30 secs to towel off his gunz and than another 45 to serve. Its gotten so freakin ridiculous.

Cmon ATP... Stop being like the UN and take action.

TenHound

09-03-2006, 11:16 PM

Why would they complain about that when they go to the trouble of eliminating random draws to insure he doesn't face anyone who can play on hc's. Get Serious.

Clara Bow

09-03-2006, 11:25 PM

They let Verdasco also get by with a stop off during a tiebread changeover, but keep up with the Nadal hating. It is very novel for this board.

BTW- since you are from the US, how did you get a livestream to LA? I haven't been able to do that- and I could just see what time he took in the coverage that they showed on CBS- and I never saw the times that you are stating. (During the tiebreak that I saw it was about 20 seconds, not two minutes, and Moodie was using it too. But I don't know about the 4th set.) But were you there or saw a livestream, if so- please let me know, because I will want to use it for other rounds.

Johnny Groove

09-03-2006, 11:26 PM

:zzz: Rafa bashing :zzz:

Regenbogen

09-03-2006, 11:28 PM

Umpires do give him warnings. At least in matches I've seen. :shrug:

DrJules

09-03-2006, 11:31 PM

His delay tactics have been abused to the max. The umpires never give him a warning. He is even allowed to take a 2 min break during the changeover in during the Tiebreak. WTF....Is everyone afraid to discipline him? Takes 30 secs to towel off his gunz and than another 45 to serve. Its gotten so freakin ridiculous.

Cmon ATP... Stop being like the UN and take action.

There are probably waiting for his semi-final against Roddick to enhance Roddick's chance of winning. :lol: :lol: :lol:

oschemi

09-03-2006, 11:32 PM

His delay tactics have been abused to the max. The umpires never give him a warning. He is even allowed to take a 2 min break during the changeover in during the Tiebreak. WTF....Is everyone afraid to discipline him? Takes 30 secs to towel off his gunz and than another 45 to serve. Its gotten so freakin ridiculous.

His delay tactics have been abused to the max. The umpires never give him a warning. He is even allowed to take a 2 min break during the changeover in during the Tiebreak. WTF....Is everyone afraid to discipline him? Takes 30 secs to towel off his gunz and than another 45 to serve. Its gotten so freakin ridiculous.

Cmon ATP... Stop being like the UN and take action.
Didnt watch the match but im sure he can rest until the umpire says 'time'..Im sure he didnt stay seated ater that did he??

Radek Stepanek

09-03-2006, 11:55 PM

STOP YOUR WHINING BIOTCH!

Byrd

09-04-2006, 12:19 AM

At Queens against Hewitt, he actually got a warning before the match even started :haha:

TennisDoc

09-04-2006, 12:31 AM

He's a great player and a great competitor. If they start to warn him he'll adjust without any problem.

*Viva Chile*

09-04-2006, 12:44 AM

His delay tactics have been abused to the max. The umpires never give him a warning. He is even allowed to take a 2 min break during the changeover in during the Tiebreak. WTF....Is everyone afraid to discipline him? Takes 30 secs to towel off his gunz and than another 45 to serve. Its gotten so freakin ridiculous.

Cmon ATP... Stop being like the UN and take action.
You're totally wrong man, he was warned in Wimbledon and now against Moodie. I really hope he stop doing this.

And the ATP has nothing to do with the slams ;)

The Pro

09-04-2006, 12:44 AM

They let Verdasco also get by with a stop off during a tiebread changeover, but keep up with the Nadal hating. It is very novel for this board.

BTW- since you are from the US, how did you get a livestream to LA? But were you there or saw a livestream, if so- please let me know, because I will want to use it for other rounds.

Sarcasm followed by a request for help is also quite novel... :D

Clara Bow

09-04-2006, 12:50 AM

Sarcasm followed by a request for help is also quite novel... :D

That is why I frequently jump off of a cliff when my friends do so and why "Lemming" is my middle name. :p

NYCtennisfan

09-04-2006, 01:40 AM

Nadal wasn't always this slow of a player. He has always been on the slow side, but now it is beyond ridiculous. My brother was at some of his match today against Moodie today and he said that it was routine that Nadal would take AT LEAST 25 seconds between points, and in the TB'er, there were points where he took 40+ seconds between points. That's way beyond anything that should be acceptable. That's longer than Massu, Mary Pierce, Mary Joe Fernandez. My brother mentioned that specatators sitting next to him were getting quite antsy as the delays grew longer and longer.

The Moodie/Nadal match had a some rallies, but most of the points weren't that long because either Moddie hit a big serve and put away/volley, or he couldn't rally with Nadal so there were a lot of short points. The match shouldn't have taken nearly 3 hours.

Blake/Agassi 2005 QF (two very fast players)= 318 pts in 170 minutes
Acasuso/Santoro RG 1st round=329 points on clay in 237 minutes
Nadal/Kendrick Wimby 2nd round=323 points played in 226 minutes (this a match on grass with one guy hitting aces and s/v the entire match and his opponent also hitting service winners and unreturnables)

Nalbandian and Safin played 83 more points in only 53 more minutes and had much longer rallies.

It's OK if someone is a slow player. Someone like Verdasco might be considered slow, but he takes between 13-20 seconds between points. That's OK. Going 30, 35, 40, and sometimes 45 seconds between serves is ridiculous.

You can go through the statistics for Nadal for everyone of his matches this year and see that even routine beatdowns take 80 minutes or longer. Two close sets will almost always take nearly 2 hours, etc.

He's methodical and it works for the guy, but 40 seconds between serves?

Leo

09-04-2006, 01:50 AM

It's completely true, he takes WAY too long and gets away with it. Rafael's not the only one, but one of the worst offenders. The worst is taking a huge ass break during the tiebreak at the changeover. Anyone remember back in the day when players didn't run to their drinks and towls during tiebreaks??? I hate that.

NYCtennisfan

09-04-2006, 01:53 AM

It's completely true, he takes WAY too long and gets away with it. Rafael's not the only one, but one of the worst offenders. The worst is taking a huge ass break during the tiebreak at the changeover. Anyone remember back in the day when players didn't run to their drinks and towls during tiebreaks??? I hate that.

You are right, he is not the only one, but he takes it to extreme lengths. When you pay a 2 set match on a fast hardcourt (like in Cincy against JCF) in 2.5 hours, that's just ridiculous.

its.like.that

09-04-2006, 01:58 AM

A rather minor issue in contrast with the ATP looking the other way on Agassi's positive drug tests wouldn't you say?

;)

revolution

09-04-2006, 01:59 AM

A rather minor issue in contrast with the ATP looking the other way on Agassi's positive drug tests wouldn't you say?

;)

Do you think Lleyton has been on drugs too?

star

09-04-2006, 02:34 AM

It's completely true, he takes WAY too long and gets away with it. Rafael's not the only one, but one of the worst offenders. The worst is taking a huge ass break during the tiebreak at the changeover. Anyone remember back in the day when players didn't run to their drinks and towls during tiebreaks??? I hate that.

Players have been stopping off for drinks on the change over during a tiebreak for ages. It's more usual than not. They aren't supposed to stop but they do, and not just Nadal.

People who complain about the time Nadal takes between points should actually put a stopwatch on it. I've done that. Most of the time he is serving within 25 seconds, but sometimes he takes longer. I've never timed him at 40 seconds, but I'm not saying he has never taken that long. Sometimes, he gets a longer time to serve because the crowd is going crazy cheering one of his magnificent shots. They always give a player time for the crowd to get quiet.

RedFury

09-04-2006, 02:40 AM

Players have been stopping off for drinks on the change over during a tiebreak for ages. It's more usual than not. They aren't supposed to stop but they do, and not just Nadal.

People who complain about the time Nadal takes between points should actually put a stopwatch on it. I've done that. Most of the time he is serving within 25 seconds, but sometimes he takes longer. I've never timed him at 40 seconds, but I'm not saying he has never taken that long. Sometimes, he gets a longer time to serve because the crowd is going crazy cheering one of his magnificent shots. They always give a player time for the crowd to get quiet.

At long last, some sanity in this thread.

TY.

atheneglaukopis

09-04-2006, 02:43 AM

I've never timed him at 40 seconds, but I'm not saying he has never taken that long.I'll just say that I've heard commentators time him at 40 seconds. Often, though, it works out to exactly 25.

cmurray

09-04-2006, 02:56 AM

A rather minor issue in contrast with the ATP looking the other way on Agassi's positive drug tests wouldn't you say?

;)

Oh right. So, do you have some insider information? Are you the schlub who has to take the peepee samples? Is that how you know?

My guess is that you're the kind of nasty person who enjoys disparaging someone's character.

ugotlobbed

09-04-2006, 04:22 AM

:zzz: Rafa bashing :zzz:

rafa bashing pointer

Deboogle!.

09-04-2006, 04:28 AM

If it bothers players so much, they need to make the umps do sometihng about it during the match when it happens :shrug:

Sjengster

09-04-2006, 04:29 AM

If it bothers players so much, they need to make the umps do sometihng about it during the match when it happens :shrug:

Ljubicic did say to the umpire at RG, "Tell him he's getting on my nerves as well", but was of course widely denounced as a whiner and sore loser. When Agassi made his own protest at Wimbledon by sitting down on the line judge's chair before Nadal started to serve, strangely no-one noticed. :confused:

Action Jackson

09-04-2006, 04:32 AM

Ljubicic did say to the umpire at RG, "Tell him he's getting on my nerves as well", but was of course widely denounced as a whiner and sore loser. When Agassi made his own protest at Wimbledon by sitting down on the line judge's chair before Nadal started to serve, strangely no-one noticed. :confused:

St Agassi walks on water.

The Massu and Nadal first set at one of the TMS events took 69 mins, the ball was in play for about 10 mins of that.

maltose

09-04-2006, 04:34 AM

Eh, it's not like it compromises the outcome of the match.

JW10S

09-04-2006, 04:35 AM

Nadal did get a couple of warnings in tournaments earlier this Spring. He is not the only one who abuses the rule. I think in general the umpires have suffered from a serious lack of backbone in recent years.

Sjengster

09-04-2006, 04:41 AM

St Agassi walks on water.

The Massu and Nadal first set at one of the TMS events took 69 mins, the ball was in play for about 10 mins of that.

That match-up is the ultimate horror scenario though, for style of play and time taken in between points by both men.

TenHound

09-04-2006, 04:50 AM

Of course it compromises the outcome of the match. The only reason RN can win playing the style he does is 'cuz he takes such long breaks.

Deivid23

09-04-2006, 05:02 AM

That match-up is the ultimate horror scenario though, for style of play and time taken in between points by both men.

Some of us would pay not to see a Schalken v Ljubicic ;)

Deivid23

09-04-2006, 05:03 AM

Piss all these clowns off, Rafa :rocker:

Sjengster

09-04-2006, 05:04 AM

Some of us would pay not to see a Schalken v Ljubicic ;)

I would pay not to see it as well, Schalken's lost the last 3 against him. :p Got him here four years ago en route to the semis, though.

Let's see if folks can now list all of his annoying characteristics since that seems to be a common trend around here. :p (Gah, I'm being a little knee-jerk defensive in here...sorry.)

Nadal can take too long between points, that is true. Others do as well. I would not be adverse at all to umps calling him for it. I just want them to do it properly, and not when he is bouncing the ball for instance (which was done before, and the ball bounce is not supposed to be included in the time between points.) That stated, if they call him on it, call all others as well.

However, I don't think Nadal just wins matches because he takes time between points as was stated above. He should nonetheless, cut down time between points. He can be like a Verdasco- still take time but not over the time limit. Taking too much time can first and foremost, make the members of the peanut gallery restless.

Nadal did cut down on his time between points at Wimbledon, and I would like to see him do it again.

Sjengster

09-04-2006, 05:30 AM

Well for a start, virtually nothing TenHound posts should be taken seriously, so I wouldn't worry that anyone thinks the time taken is the only reason for Nadal's victories. But you're right, the rule should be more rigorously enforced for every player.

supersexynadal

09-04-2006, 07:18 AM

Nadal wasn't always this slow of a player. He has always been on the slow side, but now it is beyond ridiculous. My brother was at some of his match today against Moodie today and he said that it was routine that Nadal would take AT LEAST 25 seconds between points, and in the TB'er, there were points where he took 40+ seconds between points. That's way beyond anything that should be acceptable. That's longer than Massu, Mary Pierce, Mary Joe Fernandez. My brother mentioned that specatators sitting next to him were getting quite antsy as the delays grew longer and longer.

The Moodie/Nadal match had a some rallies, but most of the points weren't that long because either Moddie hit a big serve and put away/volley, or he couldn't rally with Nadal so there were a lot of short points. The match shouldn't have taken nearly 3 hours.

Blake/Agassi 2005 QF (two very fast players)= 318 pts in 170 minutes
Acasuso/Santoro RG 1st round=329 points on clay in 237 minutes
Nadal/Kendrick Wimby 2nd round=323 points played in 226 minutes (this a match on grass with one guy hitting aces and s/v the entire match and his opponent also hitting service winners and unreturnables)

Nalbandian and Safin played 83 more points in only 53 more minutes and had much longer rallies.

It's OK if someone is a slow player. Someone like Verdasco might be considered slow, but he takes between 13-20 seconds between points. That's OK. Going 30, 35, 40, and sometimes 45 seconds between serves is ridiculous.

You can go through the statistics for Nadal for everyone of his matches this year and see that even routine beatdowns take 80 minutes or longer. Two close sets will almost always take nearly 2 hours, etc.

He's methodical and it works for the guy, but 40 seconds between serves?

Your statisctics make sense, but this is NOT the average time nadal takes to win 3 set matches and i dont know where i can find a stitistic on that. And remember this match had 2 tie breaks which means more breaks betweens games because obiously wen theres a brek of serve the set takes less time.

Im not sang this coz i like nadal but i'll admit hes quite slow but NEVER 4 seconds! I dont know when you start timing but from the time he reaches the baseline to the time he tosses the ball is nOT 40 seconds..30 MAX!

jenanun

09-04-2006, 07:43 AM

Your statisctics make sense, but this is NOT the average time nadal takes to win 3 set matches and i dont know where i can find a stitistic on that. And remember this match had 2 tie breaks which means more breaks betweens games because obiously wen theres a brek of serve the set takes less time.

Im not sang this coz i like nadal but i'll admit hes quite slow but NEVER 4 seconds! I dont know when you start timing but from the time he reaches the baseline to the time he tosses the ball is nOT 40 seconds..30 MAX!

this sort of post only comes out when nadal wins a match.....
yesterday, nadal won another match, some people is not happy, so they have to write something...

plus, there are at least 3-4 threads on the same topic, couldnt people just get the old one out instead creating another one???? obviously, nadal-bashing.....

Seneca

09-04-2006, 07:56 AM

Nadal's serving is among the slowest in the ATP tour, pointing that out shouldn't come across as pointless bashing. Consider it instead as a reason to avoid watching his matches.

Doris Loeffel

09-04-2006, 07:59 AM

Nadal did get a couple of warnings in tournaments earlier this Spring. He is not the only one who abuses the rule.

But am still waiting for the moment where he not only gets a warning but also a penalty for it!! And sure he's not the only one doing it - but the most regular one and about the only one even delaying the start of a match becouse he was soooo stressed to pump himself up infront of a mirror he couldn't even fix his socks, pants, undies and even tape his finger before he left the lockerroom.

Castafiore

09-04-2006, 08:16 AM

Consider it instead as a reason to avoid watching his matches.
Well, fine...I suggest that more people do that instead of complaining about it all the time.
Then again, not watching his matches doesn't stop some people complaining about it either. It's a hobby, I suppose.

Mimi

09-04-2006, 08:18 AM

wanting him to get a penalty :rolleyes:?? , he is not throwing rackets, using vulgar languages to opponents/judges, doing toilet breaks while others are winning :rolleyes: , i admit he is a bit slow, but he did not do it on purpose, sad to see people who love the players to get a penalty for jsut small things :rolleyes:, even your idol roger did not complain :rolleyes:

But am still waiting for the moment where he not only gets a warning but also a penalty for it!! And sure he's not the only one doing it - but the most regular one and about the only one even delaying the start of a match becouse he was soooo stressed to pump himself up infront of a mirror he couldn't even fix his socks, pants, undies and even tape his finger before he left the lockerroom.

jenanun

09-04-2006, 09:16 AM

But am still waiting for the moment where he not only gets a warning but also a penalty for it!!

enjoy your wait then!

and i dont think its going to happen

:nerner:

(probably you are still waiting till the day you die.....)

Doris Loeffel

09-04-2006, 09:22 AM

Well when warnings don't help just go to the next level maybe that'll help to teach the kid some manners! And I just don't buy it that he doesn't do it on purpose - I'm sure he's pretty much aware of it that it upsets his opponents when he takes soo long between points. Braking their concentration not only when he is serving but also when his opponents are serving he takes ages till he's ready and I believe that's even worse.

I know much worse things happen on court than taking far to long between points. Like the ones you mentioned (and yes Nadal did use well timed toilet breaks too in the past - and I know Roger did the same in Wimby and when he gets real angre he still might throw his raquet every now and then which fortunately is very very seldom now.)

Mimi

09-04-2006, 09:25 AM

if you agree that there are worst things happen on court than taking far too long between points i.e. throwing rackets like roger did sometimes, then its strange that you do not mention that the empire should give a penalty to those who throw the rackets? double-standards :rolleyes: :confused: , then can i say roger also needs to learn some manners :rolleyes: ?

I know much worse things happen on court than taking far to long between points. Like the ones you mentioned (and yes Nadal did use well timed toilet breaks too in the past - and I know Roger did the same in Wimby and when he gets real angre he still might throw his raquet every now and then which fortunately is very very seldom now.)

Mimi

09-04-2006, 09:27 AM

:bowdown: :haha: :bigclap: enjoy your wait then!

and i dont think its going to happen

:nerner:

(probably you are still waiting till the day you die.....)

Doris Loeffel

09-04-2006, 09:40 AM

if you agree that there are worst things happen on court than taking far too long between points i.e. throwing rackets like roger did sometimes, then its strange that you do not mention that the empire should give a penalty to those who throw the rackets? double-standards :rolleyes: :confused: , then can i say roger also needs to learn some manners :rolleyes: ?

I never said the others shouldn't get warnings resp. penalties for bad behaviour. They should especially when it happens all the time. And so far I haven't seen one single Nadal match (and belive me I've seen quite a few even though I'm not really a fan but I think he's a great fighter and brings sooo many balls back it's somewhat insane) where he didn't take ages between points. That's why I believe the umpires should once go one level up even when it's against Nadal.

Well compared Roger in his teens - when he really was a bad boy to how he behaves on court now he for sure did learn his lesson.

bad gambler

09-04-2006, 12:33 PM

It is bordering on a joke now - last year he was fine, for some reason this season he has picked up the habit. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt in that it is not so much with the objective of delay tactics, it's more becoming a routine for him, just a very very very long one.

sanpo

09-04-2006, 12:43 PM

:bowdown: :haha: :bigclap:

Nadal has a 7-year old fan! :worship: :worship:

Gulliver

09-04-2006, 12:49 PM

I was sure that a server should take only 20 secs between points. I've found this on how long a receiver should take:

21. WHEN TO SERVE & RECEIVE (OLD 12 & 30)

The server shall not serve until the receiver is ready. However, the receiver shall play to the reasonable pace of the server and shall be ready to receive within a reasonable time of the server being ready. A receiver who attempts to return the service shall be considered as being ready. If it is demonstrated that the receiver is not ready, the service cannot be called a fault.

USTA Comment 21.7: Should the receiver be penalized for delay if the receiver was not getting into a ready position until 18 seconds after the end of the previous point even though the server was ready to serve within about 15 seconds?

Yes. The receiver is subject to a Time Violation. The receiver must play to the reasonable pace of the server. (A pace of 12 to 15 seconds is considered reasonable.) If the first service is a fault, the server shall serve again without delay from behind the same half of the court from which that fault was served, unless the service was from the wrong half.

That seems to me to be pretty clear cut. Nothing about 25, 30, 40 seconds, but guidance on when to issue a time violation.

DDrago2

09-04-2006, 12:59 PM

Tennis plays too slow already for the taste of most of the people. MOst of the player take too much time between the points. I always adored fast players, such as Federer or Roddick, who just play. That is what audiences like.

And now Nadal, the biggest star of tennis together with Federer, makes us wait even more then before. Also other players started copying him in this delaying tacticts. It is all going for the worse. They should do something as quickly as possible to make tennis play faster. This becomes ridiculous

oz_boz

09-04-2006, 01:00 PM

That seems to me to be pretty clear cut. Nothing about 25, 30, 40 seconds, but guidance on when to issue a time violation.

On the other hand, the time limits were written in the comment, not in the rule itself. And thee must be some time for the spectators getting quiet, that cannot be controlled. I think Nadal takes too long time between points (not speculating why he does) but as long as the umpires don't do anything he can't be blamed.

connectolove

09-04-2006, 01:06 PM

Didnt watch the match but im sure he can rest until the umpire says 'time'..Im sure he didnt stay seated ater that did he??

Well said!

Castafiore

09-04-2006, 01:08 PM

Do some of you really have so little patience?

Personally, I love the long rallies that's a huge test on the patience of both players, the long 5-set matches. So, if a player takes 20 seconds or 35 seconds...doesn't really matter to me.

For me, the big servers with short points: serve, shot, point - serve, ace - serve, ace, - serve, shot, point...
That's something that I don't really like to watch so it's a matter of personal taste, I think.

It is bordering on a joke now - last year he was fine, for some reason this season he has picked up the habit
Nope, he has actually improved from last year, though.

It's just that hardly anybody gave a damn last year and now, so many people put every movement of Rafael Nadal under a microscope and when somebody picks up on something, they focus on it and the more they focus on it, the more it annoys them.
:) ---> :( ---> :mad: ---> :shout: ---> :armed:
At least, that's my impression.

Granted, he takes his time but compare him with many players or some of the other things they do and he's not the worst by far but then again, people don't really pay much attention to those others.

connectolove

09-04-2006, 01:11 PM

Players have been stopping off for drinks on the change over during a tiebreak for ages. It's more usual than not. They aren't supposed to stop but they do, and not just Nadal.

People who complain about the time Nadal takes between points should actually put a stopwatch on it. I've done that. Most of the time he is serving within 25 seconds, but sometimes he takes longer. I've never timed him at 40 seconds, but I'm not saying he has never taken that long. Sometimes, he gets a longer time to serve because the crowd is going crazy cheering one of his magnificent shots. They always give a player time for the crowd to get quiet.

Finally someone has taken some time and effort and checked the offender!

connectolove

09-04-2006, 01:19 PM

Do some of you really have so little patience?

Personally, I love the long rallies that's a huge test on the patience of both players, the long 5-set matches. So, if a player takes 20 seconds or 35 seconds...doesn't really matter to me.

For me, the big servers with short points: serve, shot, point - serve, ace - serve, ace, - serve, shot, point...
That's something that I don't really like to watch so it's a matter of personal taste, I think.

Nope, he has actually improved from last year, though.

It's just that hardly anybody gave a damn last year and now, so many people put every movement of Rafael Nadal under a microscope and when somebody picks up on something, they focus on it and the more they focus on it, the more it annoys them.
:) ---> :( ---> :mad: ---> :shout: ---> :armed:
At least, that's my impression.

Granted, he takes his time but compare him with many players or some of the other things they do and he's not the worst by far but then again, people don't really pay much attention to those others.

I was just going to write something very similar, so I'll use your opinion as reference. I think that this whole thing is blown out of proportion!

DDrago2

09-04-2006, 01:46 PM

Do some of you really have so little patience?

Personally, I love the long rallies that's a huge test on the patience of both players, the long 5-set matches. So, if a player takes 20 seconds or 35 seconds...doesn't really matter to me.

For me, the big servers with short points: serve, shot, point - serve, ace - serve, ace, - serve, shot, point...
That's something that I don't really like to watch so it's a matter of personal taste, I think.

Castafiore, we are talking about annoying pauses between the points, not about the points themselves (moonballing that you seem to like so much is a completely different issue). There are players such as Federer who are very fast between the points but most of the players in the last time seem to copy Nadal and take more and more time between the points.

jenanun

09-04-2006, 01:54 PM

Castafiore, we are talking about annoying pauses between the points, not about the points themselves (moonballing that you seem to like so much is a completely different issue). There are players such as Federer who are very fast between the points but most of the players in the last time seem to copy Nadal and take more and more time between the points.

i dont find federer very fast between points... he is normal.....

if you want to give example, give a better one, e.g. agassi, who indeed is faster, between points, than most players i have seen....

irene921

09-04-2006, 01:54 PM

Umpires do give him warnings. At least in matches I've seen. :shrug:

I saw that,too.But it seemed that rafa didn't care. :rolleyes:

jenanun

09-04-2006, 01:56 PM

I saw that,too.But it seemed that rafa didn't care. :rolleyes:

he did, and he improved, from something like 24.34223 seconds to 19.93435 seconds...

you are just not sensitive enough to notice the difference.... :)

DDrago2

09-04-2006, 02:06 PM

i dont find federer very fast between points... he is normal.....

if you want to give example, give a better one, e.g. agassi, who indeed is faster, between points, than most players i have seen....

Federer is very fast between points, and we were not talking about him.

Castafiore

09-04-2006, 02:08 PM

Ddrago2, you were the one who brought Federer into this discussion.
Federer is not that fast in between points and he's not that slow either. He's average in that regard but ok, let's not bring Roger into this discussion.

Rafa really has improved but you have to be willing to notice it. :) (I mean, it's a matter of seconds)
He doesn't fiddle with his socks that often for examples, he has cut down on his many habits before he serves. He's a player who needs to take his time in between points so he's never going to be a fast player so you might as well get used to it but he's trying IMO.

Some people are fast in between points and some are slow. You have to have to give the players at least a bit of time to do things in their own tempo (within limits of course).

Nieminen was asked about it in Wimbledon and Jarkko turned the question on himself by saying that he's very fast.
Q. He does take a lot of time between points, though? Agassi remarked on it. Does that affect a player against him?

JARKKO NIEMINEN: Well, it's for me, sometimes I'm too fast. I don't know, many times I think I'm the guy who is too fast there.

So I don't know how much really -- how much time he took. So comparing others, he's taking a lot of time. But, I mean, wasn't a negative effect to me. I don't know what the other players think, but I didn't even think about that. I just sometimes it's me who is very fast. So if it happens even against other players that I am the first player to start serve, I don't know.

most of the players in the last time seem to copy Nadal and take more and more time between the points.
You really think so? I'm watching tennis from before Rafa was even born and some players simply have the tendency to play slow, others play fast. Rafael Nadal didn't exactly invent this.

jenanun

09-04-2006, 02:11 PM

Ddrago2, you were the one who brought Federer into this discussion.
Federer is not that fast in between points and he's not that slow either. He's average in that regard but ok, let's not bring Roger into this discussion.

Rafa really has improved but you have to be willing to notice it. :) (I mean, it's a matter of seconds)
He doesn't fiddle with his socks that often for examples, he has cut down on his many habits before he serves. He's a player who needs to take his time in between points so he's never going to be a fast player so you might as well get used to it but he's trying IMO.

Some people are fast in between points and some are slow. You have to have to give the players at least a bit of time to take their time or not, depending on whether they prefer to play slow or fast.

I believe Nieminen was asked about it in Wimbledon and Jarkko said that he's very fast.

You really think so? I'm watching tennis from before Rafa was even born and some players simply have the tendency to play slow, others play fast. Rafael Nadal didn't exactly invent this.

Thanks Castafiore

:yeah:

croat123

09-04-2006, 03:41 PM

umps only give him warnings when the other player complains.

baghdatis got a warning for delay of play when he was cramping :tape:

Whistleway

09-04-2006, 03:48 PM

His delay tactics have been abused to the max. The umpires never give him a warning. He is even allowed to take a 2 min break during the changeover in during the Tiebreak. WTF....Is everyone afraid to discipline him? Takes 30 secs to towel off his gunz and than another 45 to serve. Its gotten so freakin ridiculous.

Cmon ATP... Stop being like the UN and take action.

True that. Great post. What does umpire do? Give warnings and nothing happens after that. That is a freaking shame that nadal takes upto a minute on every breakpoint or the 9th game of the set. This is bordering pathetic. WTF, please be fair to all the players. I am not just against nadal, but also verdasco who i saw yesterday using so much time too.. If you got 20 sec limit, impose it without prejudice or yank it.

star

09-04-2006, 04:28 PM

True that. Great post. What does umpire do? Give warnings and nothing happens after that. That is a freaking shame that nadal takes upto a minute on every breakpoint or the 9th game of the set. This is bordering pathetic. WTF, please be fair to all the players. I am not just against nadal, but also verdasco who i saw yesterday using so much time too.. If you got 20 sec limit, impose it without prejudice or yank it.

I'm pretty sure it's a 25 second limit for the ATP. It might be 20 seconds for the WTA.

star

09-04-2006, 04:32 PM

You really think so? I'm watching tennis from before Rafa was even born and some players simply have the tendency to play slow, others play fast. Rafael Nadal didn't exactly invent this.

But there are other players who to me are slower than Nadal playing on the tour today. Massu comes to mind.

jtipson

09-04-2006, 04:40 PM

With regard to the limit, I think it's 25 seconds for the ATP, 20 seconds for ITF (i.e. Grand Slams, Davis Cup).

I do hope Nadal and Roddick reach the semis, if only to see how fast Andy makes Rafa play. Should be fun.

jenanun

09-04-2006, 04:51 PM

True that. Great post. What does umpire do? Give warnings and nothing happens after that. That is a freaking shame that nadal takes upto a minute on every breakpoint or the 9th game of the set. This is bordering pathetic. WTF, please be fair to all the players. I am not just against nadal, but also verdasco who i saw yesterday using so much time too.. If you got 20 sec limit, impose it without prejudice or yank it.

then those with 'intentional racquet dropping' behaviour should have recieved penalty point, which also state clearly in the tennis code of conduct....

but how many times you see an umpair doing anything when the player perform such behaviour????

if you are talking about fair, why dont you point out these rule breaking behaviour as well????

why people so fussy about time taking between points but not smashing racquet which could be intimidating.....

i know why.... safin always does it all the time, and we love safin so no one mention it....

admiralpye

09-04-2006, 04:53 PM

Anyone remember back in the day when players didn't run to their drinks and towls during tiebreaks??? I hate that.

Also, just an insight: tennis WAS different back then because they used heavier, wooden rackets. So the type of game they're capable of now, the long rallies, the heavy baseline battles, weren't possible back then.

Today, the game requires more strength, stamina, speed -- and takes a hell of a lot out of the players. So whenever they have opportunity to get fluid in them and towel off to refresh themselves, they have to take it. Of course, it has to be within reason.

Another thing, the rules are very important. But these particular rules (serving time, changeover, tiebreaks) are always applied at the discretion of the umpire.

The priority is the fairness of the game, making sure the other player doesn't do something that gives him an unfair advantage over the opponent. NOT blindly following the rule.

Within reason, the umpire can allow the players to both take sips of drink or go for their towels during a changeover even if it's technically not allowed as long as it doesn't hamper the other's performance.

As for serving time, I do agree that Rafa sometimes takes too long. I've never seen him take this long before. He gets PLENTY of warnings.

But if he goes a second or two over 20 seconds, the umpire doesn't get his knickers in a twist anymore because as pros, these two seconds or so should not even matter in the overall performance. But of course, 40 seconds to serve is ridiculoius.

A question, though: draws are done in front of the players and their coaches, right? And picked by randomly chosen players? So how would the ATP or ITF rig it and nobody in the room not notice?

admiralpye

09-04-2006, 05:01 PM

Of course it compromises the outcome of the match. The only reason RN can win playing the style he does is 'cuz he takes such long breaks.

Not really. Most of the time it's quite the opposite. He's a rhythm player and he has more success the more he moves and the longer the match.

Taking long breaks would actually work against Rafa, who needs to keep the momentum going (keep moving) to play his best.

connectolove

09-04-2006, 06:24 PM

True that. Great post. What does umpire do? Give warnings and nothing happens after that. That is a freaking shame that nadal takes upto a minute on every breakpoint or the 9th game of the set. This is bordering pathetic. WTF, please be fair to all the players. I am not just against nadal, but also verdasco who i saw yesterday using so much time too.. If you got 20 sec limit, impose it without prejudice or yank it.

Now is up to a minute!!!!! next will be 2 whole minutes! :rolleyes:

star

09-04-2006, 06:25 PM

Now is up to a minute!!!!! next will be 2 whole minutes! :rolleyes:

:)

Naranoc

09-04-2006, 06:31 PM

Now is up to a minute!!!!! next will be 2 whole minutes

:haha:

Completely agree. If you read through this thread, you can see how the amount of time he takes is increased as we go along.

Kalliopeia

09-04-2006, 07:06 PM

Tennis plays too slow already for the taste of most of the people. MOst of the player take too much time between the points. I always adored fast players, such as Federer or Roddick, who just play. That is what audiences like.

And now Nadal, the biggest star of tennis together with Federer, makes us wait even more then before. Also other players started copying him in this delaying tacticts. It is all going for the worse. They should do something as quickly as possible to make tennis play faster. This becomes ridiculous

I hope Etienne de Villiers doesn't read this. Next year we'll have the Short Attention Span Open, where games are shortened to 1 point each, all matches will be one set, and they can shoehorn in double the commercials during the 20 minute match.

Every player knows that Nadal is a slow player. It's not as if he's throwing racquets around, arguing with the umpire all day and sneering at his opponents. If his opponents can't hang on to their concentration for a few extra seconds, it is their own fault.

DrJules

09-04-2006, 07:57 PM

With regard to the limit, I think it's 25 seconds for the ATP, 20 seconds for ITF (i.e. Grand Slams, Davis Cup).

I do hope Nadal and Roddick reach the semis, if only to see how fast Andy makes Rafa play. Should be fun.

Rafa will play at his own speed.

I would be shocked if Andy Roddick asks the umpire to ask Rafa to play faster. That would be an incredibly nasty and underhand way to try to win a match. Especially as the crowd would then start targeting Rafa.

Clara Bow

09-04-2006, 08:52 PM

For what it's worth, I only saw a set and a few games of Rafa's match today- but he did seem to not take as long as he sometimes does. :)

MariaV

09-04-2006, 09:07 PM

For what it's worth, I only saw a set and a few games of Rafa's match today- but he did seem to not take as long as he sometimes does. :)
You know Clara what I've noticed of what I've seen of course, Rafa indeed takes longer before his serve when the situation is tight, when he's down a BP or in the tight TB. I'd say he is concentrating a bit more at these moments, and if the opponent cannot deal with it, too bad. :shrug:
When things are going smoothly for him he can play quite quickly.
I am not sure how impose the 20 sec rule, should the ump clock it all the time and hand out warnings and point penalties, it's ridiculous. Every player can take longer than 20 sec after a long exhausting rally, would you start warning everyone then?

DDrago2

09-04-2006, 09:26 PM

Nadal is simply hacking the rules, abusing the fact that nothing is precisely fixed when game/set/match time is concerned in tennis. It is so obvious that he conciously uses these delays to deconcentrate his oponents, and not as some say to concentrate himself. He could as well start shouting just before the oponent serves. Umpires have the means to prevent him doing this dirty stuff but failed until now.

World Beater

09-04-2006, 10:31 PM

nadal is slow...there are others who are slow as well...but to me, nadal is exceptionally slow. I dont mind him taking a lot of time, but the ticks are annoying.

he will bounce the ball twice...then pull his shorts out of his ass, then he will wipe his sweatband, and finally he will bounce the ball another couple of times, and then start to serve. the whole process takes such a long time.

with verdasco at least, once he gets to the line, he serves.

with djoko, he bounces the ball 10 times, so you know when to get ready...

with nadal you never now, cos everytime it seems like he does sth new. you dont know when to bend down.

Deboogle!.

09-04-2006, 10:40 PM

Rafa will play at his own speed.

I would be shocked if Andy Roddick asks the umpire to ask Rafa to play faster. That would be an incredibly nasty and underhand way to try to win a match. Especially as the crowd would then start targeting Rafa.Depends on whose serve it's on. I don't think Andy would care that much if Rafa is slow on his own serve (I mean unless it were something excessive when most other players would care too), Verdasco was pretty slow yesterday and Andy didn't say anything. but if Rafa tries to slow him down on his own serve, then I expect Andy would say something and it would be rightfully so as the rules are to play with the server's pace. :shrug:

For what it's worth (which is nothing of course), I don't think Rafa's all that bad most of the time, but once in a while it's really too long. I just remember once though earlier this year, Rafa got warned and he bickered with the ump about it a little. He wasn't rude or anything like that but it was sort of like, come on, everyone knows you take too long, just say you'll be more careful or something lol

oz_boz

09-07-2006, 12:39 PM

I measured the time between lost ball to next serve toss for some players yesterday. I did roughly twenty measurements for every player.

Blake 12-19 seconds
Youzhny 15-25
Nadal 15-35
Haas 16-26
Safin 14-27

IF there is a 25 second limit, Nadal took too long about 1/3 of his serves, while the others only did it only occasionally.

However, as a few others have pointed out, Rafa is not the worst in this department, and will probably never be. It seems to be little of an issue at the moment.

boliviana

09-07-2006, 02:07 PM

What about Sharapova last night against Golovin . . . it's just as bad there . . . and they were showing Yuri telling her (motioning actually) to eat a banana and when to drink . . . huh??? and off topic but I gotta ask . . . since when is a blister (Golovin) worthy of a trainer and in the middle of a tie break? The trainer situation is also out of control . . .

Kalliopeia

09-07-2006, 02:32 PM

What about Sharapova last night against Golovin . . . it's just as bad there . . . and they were showing Yuri telling her (motioning actually) to eat a banana and when to drink . . . huh??? and off topic but I gotta ask . . . since when is a blister (Golovin) worthy of a trainer and in the middle of a tie break? The trainer situation is also out of control . . .

Ok that blister was just hideous though. I mean it was HUGE. I can't fault her for that.

The banana thing was hysterical. He was just holding it up and shaking it. Dude could at least try to be subtle about it. Poor Shrieky, can't even figure out when to eat and drink on her own.

David Kenzie

09-07-2006, 02:45 PM

It is true he takes too much time to serve and to get off his chair. And no, Rafa isn't allow to "play at his own speed" as someone stated above :rolleyes: . There are rules for a reason and Rafa should be punished more often for breaking them. Of course there are many other players guilty of taking too much time to serve, but Nadal gets more TV time these days so we see more of him. It is normal to see people complain about him more than other players ...

stuey87

09-07-2006, 03:59 PM

I don't mind slow players generally. I can even tolerate Novak "I get $50 every time I bounce the ball before a serve" Djokovic because as has been mentioned once he starts the bounce routine he's locked in and you know and accept that after so many bounces the point'll begin, and generally the time he takes between points doesn't exceed the limit as often (even with the million ball bounces).
However I find myself infuriated with Nadal's more fragmented routine (also as outlined above). He takes more than the 25 seconds or whatever the rule is for between some (not all) of his points with his fidgeting, when really it's only justifiable very occasionally when the crowd are restless etc. If he hits a let with his first serve you feel like you've just been robbed of 30 seconds of your life and have to sit through the same again!
Yes there are other slow players with similar routines, Massu at the Olympics wore me down to a state of utter impatience for example.
The umpires should start giving penalties in my opinion if on multiple occasions within the same match ANY player (not just Nadal, Massu) is taking an unreasonable and over the limit amount of time between points.
I mean Gonzalez got given a point penalty for whacking a ball out of the stadium when enraged that the umpire wrongly called him as 3 match points down!
As someone pointed out Rafa doesn't care for any warnings, he knows that that's all he'll get. Similar to penalties being awarded in football for defenders grappling attackers in the penalty box, point penalties for repeated delaying between points would hopefully stamp out the attempts to gain deliberate advantages unfairly.
On a separate note, has Norm Chryst ever given Nadal (or anyone) a point penalty after a warning for repeated slowness between points? As much of a joke as he often is intervening in matches to be part of the show for once I'd like to see him do it, he seems to have the balls to.
Rant over.