Fans go to the park for Ws, for which we are tied for 27th.
They don't go to the park to watch payrolls for the sake of payroll.

The point is that the team continues to have a high payroll despite struggling to get fans into the park. They don't owe us ****. The players aren't living up their end of the bargain. It's that simple.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by shoota

I'm not counting this homerun or his 3 RBI from today's game because of the game situation. I'm not counting his pinch hit solo homerun in a blowout win in Colorado. In my book, Crede has 2 less home runs than his statistics show, 4 less RBI, and one less walk (the one where he pinch hit for Uribe after coming in with a 3-0 count and taking one pitch).

The Sox owe us nothing, and we owe them nothing. As much as I love the White Sox, and will never cheer for another team, they are a product that I can choose to enjoy or ignore. Like an expensive car that is a disaster and breaks down all the time, the price they spend means nothing to the fan base. They may as well have a 30 million payroll if this is the results they get. They pay executives a lot of money to find talent and put out a competitive team. Kenny Williams did his job a couple times over his GM tenure and got promoted. Rick Hahn was highly touted, but yet to prove he can find young talent (will take a few years to see the results of this).

For almost 6 years now the White Sox have given us a product that has the talent of a .500 ball club and they hope everything goes right and we sneak into the playoffs.

Until they figure it out, Fans will just continue to ignore them. If Sony kept putting out TV's that were the 10th most expensive in a market of 100 options, and the picture just sucked, year after year, people would stop buying them until Sony proved they could make a good TV. Sony would then have 2 options, sell the ****ty TV for less money, or make a better TV.

The White Sox choose to sell us a ****ty tv for less money this year. Maybe in the future they will figure it out.

The point is that the team continues to have a high payroll despite struggling to get fans into the park. They don't owe us ****. The players aren't living up their end of the bargain. It's that simple.

Or one could point to the fact we spend money poorly, and our executives, starting with Kenny, are not really that great at their job.

I don't know why people think the teams they are fans of owe them anything. I think there's quite a few franchises in MLB that have proven you don't even need fans to make money. What do you want? A weekly State of the Sox address? Them to post opinion polls on certain players and make deals based on the fans' desires? It's their team. They're going to run it however they want. They don't owe us a dang thing.

Sorry, but that's the biggest bunch of nonsense I've ever read. He wasn't saying there should be a weekly address or polls, you just said that to make yourself look all smarty pants . Of course they owe the fans an explanation of what they are going to do to fix this if they expect ANY to show up for the rest this season and beyond. The longer it becomes apparent they have no idea what they are doing the less fans are going to come and watch this debacle. That's like saying a car company doesn't owe consumers an explanation for why the car blows up after 70,000 miles. If they want any business they will provide a solution and an explanation. I have serious doubts this group has a clue personally. All KW and associates should have been shown the door after it became apparent they were not capable of putting together a consistent playoff contender. Instead, KW was promoted and his right hand man was made GM. That is the definition of baseball insanity. The White Sox need a fresh start with new blood in the front office.

The point is that the team continues to have a high payroll despite struggling to get fans into the park. They don't owe us ****. The players aren't living up their end of the bargain. It's that simple.

So they have a high payroll , so what? Did it ever occur to you pretty much every player on the team is overpaid and KW and company have done a poor job and deserve criticism.

Sorry, but that's the biggest bunch of nonsense I've ever read. He wasn't saying there should be a weekly address or polls, you just said that to make yourself look all smarty pants . Of course they owe the fans an explanation of what they are going to do to fix this if they expect ANY to show up for the rest this season and beyond. The longer it becomes apparent they have no idea what they are doing the less fans are going to come and watch this debacle. That's like saying a car company doesn't owe consumers an explanation for why the car blows up after 70,000 miles. If they want any business they will provide a solution and an explanation. I have serious doubts this group has a clue personally. All KW and associates should have been shown the door after it became apparent they were not capable of putting together a consistent playoff contender. Instead, KW was promoted and his right hand man was made GM. That is the definition of baseball insanity. The White Sox need a fresh start with new blood in the front office.

But the car company DOESN'T owe the consumer any explanation. Again, it would make sense, it engages the consumer, but if Chevy made a car called the lightning rod and it sold a lot of units each year, and it also died at 75k miles every year, and Chevy told you nothing, then the ball is in your court as a consumer. If you are a chevy loyalist, but you continue to buy a lightning rod, you are wrong, not Chevy. The only way Chevy has to build a better car is by making the lightning rod a reliable vehicle.

So they have a high payroll , so what? Did it ever occur to you pretty much every player on the team is overpaid and KW and company have done a poor job and deserve criticism.

Did anybody say that KW and the front office didn't deserve criticism?

I think the point is there's a difference between a team that's just not trying and a team that tries and fails horribly. The White Sox front office/ownership was trying to be good (maybe not trying hard enough, but they were trying). They aren't the Marlins. You can criticize the way things turned out all you want, but it's silly to want them to explain themselves - what happened is fairly obvious to anybody who's been watching and knows anything about baseball.

Did anybody say that KW and the front office didn't deserve criticism?

I think the point is there's a difference between a team that's just not trying and a team that tries and fails horribly. The White Sox front office/ownership was trying to be good (maybe not trying hard enough, but they were trying). They aren't the Marlins. You can criticize the way things turned out all you want, but it's silly to want them to explain themselves - what happened is fairly obvious to anybody who's been watching and knows anything about baseball.

I personally don't expect an explanation , I am not saying that , but it would be nice , as well as some sort of evidence they know what they are doing. The condition of the farm system , what is being done to fix that, whatever they are doing is not working. And the people responsible are promoted ,lol.

Then don't ****in get worked up over it. It's sports, guys. SPORTS. Sometimes your favorite baseball team is just bad. The Sox were basically irrelevant in the mid-to-late '90s, buried behind the dynasty Bulls and the Sammy & Co. Cubs and low and behold, they wound up having arguably the best decade in team history immediately following.

Getting all pouty and throwing a temper tantrum about how you're "owed" an explanation isn't going to make anything better. If JR came out tomorrow and talked about how ****ty the team was or fired Hahn or Ventura would that really make watching Gordon Beckham tackling Gillaspie in the 9th more palatable? Would it make watching Viciedo or De Aza lose track of the number of outs in the inning better? No, the team would still be ****ty. Just have to ride it out until they're not ****ty any more.

That is a pretty narrow view of the original poster's comments, and you may be seeing it with a pre-conceived notion of the original poster that I don't have, which is fine. But I interpret it differently. I look at how the Bears approach to their public relations changed so drastically with Angelo and Lovie out. The new GM has been pretty transparent, or at least as much as he could be without tipping his hand. Not only is it refreshing, it's been well received and actually makes me want to watch and root for the organization. It's called PR, marketing, whatever you want to call it. I think Hahn's recent comments about being sick about this team are a step in that direction. But I have no problem with what the original poster has said. This organization is a mess right now, period. It's not JR who needs to say something, that is not his role, but at least the GM, or even Kenny if he is still involved. It would be nice if after the trade deadline someone came out and gave us at least a hint about where it's all going. Heck, even the Cubs at this point are doing a million times better at explaining their plan.

__________________"I'm sorry that you don't like our manager," Williams says he told him.

"I'm sorry that you don't like our 3-4-5 hitters. Or our closer.

"I'm sorry that you don't like our third baseman and our shortstop. Or our left fielder and our right fielder.

"I'm sorry people feel this way about our club. But I also want you to know something about that:

That is a pretty narrow view of the original poster's comments, and you may be seeing it with a pre-conceived notion of the original poster that I don't have, which is fine. But I interpret it differently. I look at how the Bears approach to their public relations changed so drastically with Angelo and Lovie out. The new GM has been pretty transparent, or at least as much as he could be without tipping his hand. Not only is it refreshing, it's been well received and actually makes me want to watch and root for the organization. It's called PR, marketing, whatever you want to call it. I think Hahn's recent comments about being sick about this team are a step in that direction. But I have no problem with what the original poster has said. This organization is a mess right now, period. It's not JR who needs to say something, that is not his role, but at least the GM, or even Kenny if he is still involved. It would be nice if after the trade deadline someone came out and gave us at least a hint about where it's all going. Heck, even the Cubs at this point are doing a million times better at explaining their plan.

I agree ,though I'm not a Bear's fan. And yes, if JR did come out and clean house IT WOULD make watching this team much more bearable.

Any "explanation" would be awkward since it would involve Hahn highlighting the mistakes his boss made- ****ed up, barren farm system, overpriced veteran contracts for Dunn, Danks, etc., weak talent assessment or development (Viciedo, Flowers) and hiring a manager with zero experience at any level.

Like if Hoyer and Epstein were reporting to Hendry.

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TomBradley72http://sabr.org/bioproj/person/334c0314Players that are an important part of the rebuild:
Anderson, Fulmer, Giolito, Lopez, Moncada Players that might be or could have trade value:
Abreu, Bummer, Castillo, Davidson, Delmonico, A. Garcia, Jones, Sanchez