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I would trade Z so fast it would make your head spin, but Kenny will never do it. Franzen is the most obvious bait, Filppula is the most attractive, but I think Fil is key for us now. He drove our second line more than Z did. Helm too, but it would take a lot for me. We cant trade Howie. I wouldn't trade Nyquist or Smith, but every other prospect should be fair game.

I'd deal Franzen before I deal Z. I agree with you on Val. I think Tatar, Adbelkader, and Emmerton are little pieces that we could fool around with as well.

I would trade Z so fast it would make your head spin, but Kenny will never do it. Franzen is the most obvious bait, Filppula is the most attractive, but I think Fil is key for us now. He drove our second line more than Z did. Helm too, but it would take a lot for me. We cant trade Howie. I wouldn't trade Nyquist or Smith, but every other prospect should be fair game.

Really? You'd be that quick to dangle Z in front of other teams? Whoa, DJH, you were the guy on PSD I always looked up to, but after this...I just don't know what to think. I feel cold...cold and alone. I can see putting him on the block after this year if he waaaay underproduces, but not just yet. He's pretty consistant year to year IMO. His stats dropped off from 07-08, but he's maintained well enough for me. Plus he's willing to play hurt, (yes he may be thinking he's Stevie Y), but that shows dedication to me. Is it the smartest way to play though? Well no, not really, but it's something. If the there's one thing the Wings need, it's to have a guy other then Pavs that knows the system and stays consistant.

Really? You'd be that quick to dangle Z in front of other teams? Whoa, DJH, you were the guy on PSD I always looked up to, but after this...I just don't know what to think. I feel cold...cold and alone. I can see putting him on the block after this year if he waaaay underproduces, but not just yet. He's pretty consistant year to year IMO. His stats dropped off from 07-08, but he's maintained well enough for me. Plus he's willing to play hurt, (yes he may be thinking he's Stevie Y), but that shows dedication to me. Is it the smartest way to play though? Well no, not really, but it's something. If the there's one thing the Wings need, it's to have a guy other then Pavs that knows the system and stays consistant.

Who would you want back in trade for him BTW?

well...

Originally Posted by BranWingss

Probably scared of the salary.. as am I.

That's a big part of it. He seems to never be healthy, so I couldn't really care less if he is willing to play hurt. He is getting paid like a high end #1 center, but we already have one of those. He seems to have chronic back problems, and he's with us on what is basically a retirement contract.

During the regular season (which is gonna start being very important now that we are pretty vulnerable), he plays waaay to easy of a game. How many times does he just coast to the outside and throw a backhander from an absurd angle on the net? Infinity times, that's how many. He's got the ability to get to the middle of the ice, he just rarely does it, which is the most frustrating thing in the world.

However, he could land us a serious haul of young talent, or one or two significant young players who could make a difference now, which is very appealing to me.

I thought you were describing Franzen there for a minute. It seems I definitely have a different perspective about players than some of you. Z is one of the players on the Wings that shows up every night and does have an extra gear, like Stevie Y did, of course Yzerman seemed to have 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gears. IMO, the reason Z's numbers are down is the same reason Datsyuk's are. He is constantly in there digging, fighting for pucks, and getting slammed by the opposing teams, which also tends to result in injuries. Z is the one making the other players on his line look good, not the other way around. I think part of the reason Holland got Sammy was to give Z some size and grit on his line. Hudler was working this year, but was small and being knocked off the pucks. If people want to see Z start producing more, then move Filppula to center and let Z start hanging out in the slot. Remember when Z and Dats played on the same line? They put up good numbers not just because they were both skilled players, but because you had 2 players with the same type of work ethics. The opposing teams couldn't just concentrate on shutting down one player, they had to try and contain both. I feel the Wings are trying to get more of those types of players; thus, the interest in players like Parise, Nash, Doan, and Ryan - skilled, with good work ethics and the lack of interest in players like Semin and A. Kostitsyn - lazy. IMO, Z and Datsyuk are 2 of the hardest working players on the Wings followed by Holmstrom, Helm, Cleary, and Abby, so hopefully, the Wings are not even considering moving Z. If Z is mentioned in a trade rumor, I would expect to hear Malkin, Stamkos, etc., not some young talent, or prospects. Supposedly, we already have some young talent - Nyquist and Brunner, not to mention all of the Wings' other prospects.
I think this is worth mentioning again. The Wings were 7th in the league in scoring and they only lost Hudler. The losses came on the backend, so let's not blow up the team to patch the holes on the backside.

I thought you were describing Franzen there for a minute. It seems I definitely have a different perspective about players than some of you. Z is one of the players on the Wings that shows up every night and does have an extra gear, like Stevie Y did, of course Yzerman seemed to have 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gears. IMO, the reason Z's numbers are down is the same reason Datsyuk's are. He is constantly in there digging, fighting for pucks, and getting slammed by the opposing teams, which also tends to result in injuries. Z is the one making the other players on his line look good, not the other way around. I think part of the reason Holland got Sammy was to give Z some size and grit on his line. Hudler was working this year, but was small and being knocked off the pucks. If people want to see Z start producing more, then move Filppula to center and let Z start hanging out in the slot. Remember when Z and Dats played on the same line? They put up good numbers not just because they were both skilled players, but because you had 2 players with the same type of work ethics. The opposing teams couldn't just concentrate on shutting down one player, they had to try and contain both. I feel the Wings are trying to get more of those types of players; thus, the interest in players like Parise, Nash, Doan, and Ryan - skilled, with good work ethics and the lack of interest in players like Semin and A. Kostitsyn - lazy. IMO, Z and Datsyuk are 2 of the hardest working players on the Wings followed by Holmstrom, Helm, Cleary, and Abby, so hopefully, the Wings are not even considering moving Z. If Z is mentioned in a trade rumor, I would expect to hear Malkin, Stamkos, etc., not some young talent, or prospects. Supposedly, we already have some young talent - Nyquist and Brunner, not to mention all of the Wings' other prospects.
I think this is worth mentioning again. The Wings were 7th in the league in scoring and they only lost Hudler. The losses came on the backend, so let's not blow up the team to patch the holes on the backside.

That's sums up what I think about Z. He's out there busting his azz. He does skate to the boards in the zone and yes, he does whip a backhand for the most part (some of which have gone in), but I think he's trying to make the plays and they just aren't there, which is why I think he and Pavs don't do well together, cuz Pavs is trying to make the plays too. We need a sniper, a shoot first kinda guy. And a 6.1 mil cap hit for Z pales to some of the cash lesser players are getting. Unless you're gonna trade for the Hall, RNH and Yakupov from EDM, no way I let a leader go for younger guys, especially since we already have a crop of talented young guys in our system.

I thought you were describing Franzen there for a minute. It seems I definitely have a different perspective about players than some of you. Z is one of the players on the Wings that shows up every night and does have an extra gear, like Stevie Y did, of course Yzerman seemed to have 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gears. IMO, the reason Z's numbers are down is the same reason Datsyuk's are. He is constantly in there digging, fighting for pucks, and getting slammed by the opposing teams, which also tends to result in injuries. Z is the one making the other players on his line look good, not the other way around. I think part of the reason Holland got Sammy was to give Z some size and grit on his line. Hudler was working this year, but was small and being knocked off the pucks. If people want to see Z start producing more, then move Filppula to center and let Z start hanging out in the slot. Remember when Z and Dats played on the same line? They put up good numbers not just because they were both skilled players, but because you had 2 players with the same type of work ethics. The opposing teams couldn't just concentrate on shutting down one player, they had to try and contain both. I feel the Wings are trying to get more of those types of players; thus, the interest in players like Parise, Nash, Doan, and Ryan - skilled, with good work ethics and the lack of interest in players like Semin and A. Kostitsyn - lazy. IMO, Z and Datsyuk are 2 of the hardest working players on the Wings followed by Holmstrom, Helm, Cleary, and Abby, so hopefully, the Wings are not even considering moving Z. If Z is mentioned in a trade rumor, I would expect to hear Malkin, Stamkos, etc., not some young talent, or prospects. Supposedly, we already have some young talent - Nyquist and Brunner, not to mention all of the Wings' other prospects.
I think this is worth mentioning again. The Wings were 7th in the league in scoring and they only lost Hudler. The losses came on the backend, so let's not blow up the team to patch the holes on the backside.

I agree that that is what the Wings are trying to do. Holland and Babs are totally afraid of the lazy skill type player (except a lazy player without as much skill, like Sammy - god that was so dumb).

Back to Z: He and Pav used to be great together because Z used to be a triggerman who would find soft spots in the ice and he had the best playmaker in the league giving him the puck. Then after 08 he decided he as gonna be the puck carrier and so that killed the Datsyuk chemistry.

I don't see Z busting his *** every night, but I hope that changes with the C on his chest.

I agree that that is what the Wings are trying to do. Holland and Babs are totally afraid of the lazy skill type player (except a lazy player without as much skill, like Sammy - god that was so dumb).

Back to Z: He and Pav used to be great together because Z used to be a triggerman who would find soft spots in the ice and he had the best playmaker in the league giving him the puck. Then after 08 he decided he as gonna be the puck carrier and so that killed the Datsyuk chemistry.

I don't see Z busting his *** every night, but I hope that changes with the C on his chest.

Nailed it. Z used to play the LW. At the time he lacked the ability to carry the puck. Once he moved to centre, he started carrying it more and more. It still worked with Dats for a bit. Then we seen Z trying to carry the puck. That killed everything. Our offensive plays on line 1 are built around Dats. Always.

Z plays a lot injured. I will give him that. However, he is lazy. He does do that SAME MOVE EVERY SINGLE TIME. He shoots too much at times (not a problem really, but it's why Franzen and Z haven't meshed in the past 2 years). They had mad chemistry in the 2008 playoffs.

Z's contract is going to hurt us. It's going to hurt us bad. He's 32 I believe. We have a $6,100,000 contract of his until he's 40 years old I believe. Think about it. He's been breaking down for a few years. He's suffered serious knee and back injuries. Another two years is going to do a lot. Then think 2 years after and 2 after that. I hope to god that Datsyuk only gets a 3-5 year deal. I'd give him a mega deal though, 10 times out of 10.

Zetterberg will be our captain. It's probably much a lock. He and Datsyuk have been our longest serving alternate captains. Difference? Zetterberg's english is really that much better. Val probably gets an 'A' on his chest. Then you've got the captains without wearing it, like Dan Cleary.

Ken Holland's in for the hardest job in quite some time in a few years.

Nailed it. Z used to play the LW. At the time he lacked the ability to carry the puck. Once he moved to centre, he started carrying it more and more. It still worked with Dats for a bit. Then we seen Z trying to carry the puck. That killed everything. Our offensive plays on line 1 are built around Dats. Always.

Z plays a lot injured. I will give him that. However, he is lazy. He does do that SAME MOVE EVERY SINGLE TIME. He shoots too much at times (not a problem really, but it's why Franzen and Z haven't meshed in the past 2 years). They had mad chemistry in the 2008 playoffs.

Z's contract is going to hurt us. It's going to hurt us bad. He's 32 I believe. We have a $6,100,000 contract of his until he's 40 years old I believe. Think about it. He's been breaking down for a few years. He's suffered serious knee and back injuries. Another two years is going to do a lot. Then think 2 years after and 2 after that. I hope to god that Datsyuk only gets a 3-5 year deal. I'd give him a mega deal though, 10 times out of 10.

Zetterberg will be our captain. It's probably much a lock. He and Datsyuk have been our longest serving alternate captains. Difference? Zetterberg's english is really that much better. Val probably gets an 'A' on his chest. Then you've got the captains without wearing it, like Dan Cleary.

Ken Holland's in for the hardest job in quite some time in a few years.

Let's hope his role as captain can inspire him then. I still thinks he works hard, when he's healthy. I mean, if you're asked to play 20+ min a game and you have back problems, I don't call going to the net and shooting the puck lazy. I call it doing what you can with what you got. In almost every case, if Mule was bringing it into the zone, odds are he fires around the boards and stays put. That's lazy. Z atleast is putting pucks on net. Are his shots high percentage shots? Not really, but I'd take a guy making low percentage plays over a guy who makes zero percentage plays anyday. That's just me.

As for the 6.1 mil cap hit, I'd take that for Z over 7.5 for Parise anyday. Just look at Parise's numbers. And injury reports.

I will concede we definitely have different views of Zetterberg. I just don't understand why anyone would consider him trade bait, especially now. The Wings were left with a big hole, or at the very least a big question mark on the D with Lidstrom leaving, so why would we want to create another big hole on the front end by trading Z? Even if the Wings traded Z and got a top 2 defenseman, how would the Wings plug the hole left by Zetterberg? Who would be the 2nd line center? Some people are talking doom and gloom now because we lost Hudler on the front end, so how is there justification for trading Z? I'm not trying to argue, I just don't understand the logic behind that.
Personally, I don't see the point of trading any of our top 6 forwards, even Franzen, for a D man, unless we pick up another top 6 forward to take his place. With Nyquist, Brunner, and all of the prospects we have, I can't see the point of trading for young players with potential, either.

I wouldn't mind trading Franzen if we got a top pairing dman back. A healthy Cleary could replace what he did last year and we have plenty of top 9 forwards now to take Cleary's spot from last year. I'm not that high on Yandle but at this point we desperately need another top pairing dman, or at least a top 4 dman. I'm not looking forward to starting the season off with Ericsson in the top 4 unless he improves significantly.

Ok I gotta hop on DJH's boat here. 2008 I never think about trading Z, he worked his butt off, produced, was a great compliment to Pasha and we didnt have huge holes in our roster like we do on the back end. Now he does get lazy and carries it WAY WAY to much. He regularly takes those back handers or shots from horrible angels (dont know about you but see a lot from way outside on the left circle). Is he trying to create rebounds? Trying to just get the puck on net? Or being lazy I have no idea. I trade him under these conditions
1) We get solid young young D prospects (OEL, Yandle from PHX, Bogo from Win, Subban + from Montreal, Hedman from TB) not gonna construct any trades that I would like to see because well they probably arent going to trade Z.
2) Nyquist or Brunner are true top 6, produce and show it.
3) Flipper produces the same or better then last year, then moves back to his natural Center position on the 2nd line (remember he is a natural center)
4) Cleary is on pace for at least 20 G and returns healthy and effective

IF these 4 things happen Pasha centers the first line Val centers the second. Mule, Cleary, Nyquist, Brunner, Sami and Bert then fight and switch off at the 4 winger positions in the top 6. I mean with Z we have 6-7 (counting Nyq and Brunner if they pan out no idea) people who could be top 6 wingers (4 slots) we could afford to trade Z and it would save us some major headaches in 4+ years.

Also I dont trade Tatar especially after World Championships (told you guys for years he's gonna be good! , Jurco, Pulu, or Jarn. They really are the future for this older team.

I think he is NHL ready, honestly I thought he could play in a limited role last year. Although I like one more season in GR, I really want to see him flourish offensively this year after focusing on rounding out his game the past couple years.

I would trade Z so fast it would make your head spin, but Kenny will never do it. Franzen is the most obvious bait, Filppula is the most attractive, but I think Fil is key for us now. He drove our second line more than Z did. Helm too, but it would take a lot for me. We cant trade Howie. I wouldn't trade Nyquist or Smith, but every other prospect should be fair game.