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I listened to thousands of games announced by Jack Brickhouse and the only Cub that he openly hated was Juan Pizarro. As a Cub fan I have a deep loathing for Hooten. Happy birthday Juan, burn in HELL Burt.

No hitters have amassed amazing stat totals in an Indians uniform. The career leader in games played is another guy you may have never heard of, with 1619 (Nap Lajoie has 1614).

Top ten in hits:

Nap Lajoie - also spent 7 1/2 seasons in Philly
Tris Speaker - also spent 9 years in Boston
Earl Averill - played only 10 full seasons
Joe Sewell - released by the Indians at age 32
Charlie Jamieson - played 14 years with the Indians, but only played 1483 games. Must have been injury-prone.
Ken Keltner - played only 10 full seasons
Lou Boudreau - played only 9 full seasons
Omar Vizquel - also spent 13 years with other teams
Kenny Lofton - played for 11 teams
Terry Turner - couldn't hit

Much of the Indians' history hasn't exactly been conducive to guys with a lot of career hits.

Starting in ~1936, they intentionally built around pitching and defense because Cleveland Stadium's playing field was so huge, power wasn't really an option. Frank Lane showed up in 1957 and spent the next half-decade trading everything that wasn't nailed down and generally annihilating the organization. They were awful for the next few decades, and then starting in the mid-1990s, they began to accumulate guys like Vizquel and Lofton who were talented players who hit for average and were worth keeping long-term.

I'd be stunned if anyone new cracks the Top Ten within the next couple decades; their player development is awful and even if they happen to accidentally stumble onto a guy who can play, he won't be in Cleveland for more than 6-7 years, tops.

No hitters have amassed amazing stat totals in an Indians uniform. The career leader in games played is another guy you may have never heard of, with 1619 (Nap Lajoie has 1614).

But their pitching is extremely impressive, perhaps the best of any team. Addie Joss, Mel Harder, Bob Feller, Bob Lemon all spent their entire careers with the Indians. Mike Garcia, Stan Coveleski, Willis Hudlin, Early Wynn, and Sam McDowell all pitched over 2000 innings with the team, as did Jim Bagby if you add together father and son.

Charlie Jamieson - played 14 years with the Indians, but only played 1483 games. Must have been injury-prone

I knew Jamieson's name because he played on the 1920 World Champions, but couldn't have told you much more about him. He was pretty durable, an everyday player for six years, but platooned earlier and later. He only played 26 games in 1919, and there is no military service or injury indicated in the older encyclopedias; I suspect he played in the minors that year but am not sure. In 1932 the encyclopedias have him as suffering a "Face Injury" (?!) but he was 39 by then anyway and a benchwarmer. He could definitely reach base, but was a singles hitter in an era that increasingly demanded power.

Doesn't really seem that impressive. Gotta be a number of teams that are better than that. The Red Sox and Giants off the top of my head.

The Indians' #10 guy in IP is Sam McDowell with over 2100. The Red Sox have Lefty Grove with 1539. The Red Sox have 3 guys with over 2700 IP. #4 has fewer than 1800. The Giants' #10 guy has about the same as McDowell, but 3 of them are pre 1900.

With two feet of snow forecasted in the northeast starting Friday night this might be important. Game One of the Australian championship series is Friday at 1PM and Game Two is Saturday at 3PM (presumably not live) I have a hunch that might be a big part of my weekend.

The Indians' #10 guy in IP is Sam McDowell with over 2100. The Red Sox have Lefty Grove with 1539. The Red Sox have 3 guys with over 2700 IP. #4 has fewer than 1800. The Giants' #10 guy has about the same as McDowell, but 3 of them are pre 1900.

Umm, so you are just referring to quantity? I don't find innings pitched totals all that impressive, especially with changing environments over the years. I'll take the Red Sox or Giants guys based on quality and overall value over the Indians list any day.

Umm, so you are just referring to quantity? I don't find innings pitched totals all that impressive, especially with changing environments over the years. I'll take the Red Sox or Giants guys based on quality and overall value over the Indians list any day.

What I originally said was that no hitter has racked up amazing career stats as an Indian. Not because of lack of quality, but because no hitter was there for a full 15 years of greatness. And Misirlou pointed out that they DO have pitchers who have great career stats as Indians.

Umm, so you are just referring to quantity? I don't find innings pitched totals all that impressive, especially with changing environments over the years. I'll take the Red Sox or Giants guys based on quality and overall value over the Indians list any day.

then what? You could add Pedro, Grove, and Smokey Joe Wood, but all of them have 1500 IP or less.

The Giants are closer, maybe even a tad better, with Mathewson, Hubbell, Marichal, Perry, and McGinnity

Like most discussions here, it's important how you define your terms. The Indians and Giants both have 5 guys with good quantity and good quality. The Red Sox have 2, plus 3 guys with outstanding quality, but not much quantity. How you define your terms determines how you find your winner. If you are looking for guys who contributed to the team for only a little while, the Indians boast an impressive lineup as well:

Pedro with the Red Sox had 1383 IP at a 190 ERA+. Yes I take that over the Indians guys. That is just a ridiculous quality advantage
Grove had 1539 IP at a 143 ERA+. That's a big quality advantage too, I'd say it puts him at least better than Lemon or Wynn.
WAR at least, agrees.

Looking at career WAR, the Indians are not top-heavy but are extremely deep. Feller is at 60 WAR, Coveleski 2nd at 52. But 3 guys around 40, 2 just under 35 and 3 guys at 28.

The Red Sox are very strong at the top with Clemens (78), Young (63) and Pedro (52). They bottom out faster though with one guy at 42, one just under 35, two at 28 and 3 at 26.

All told the Indians top 10 in WAR is 392, the Red Sox at 405. Pedro, Grove and Smoky Joe Wood will guarantee the Red Sox an easy win on peak value.

The Giants blow them both out of the water with 492 WAR. There is a lot of 19th century in there but they pull out a win using just 20th century too with 419 WAR. Looks like the Red Sox still win easily on peak so might take the overall title. (Somebody who cares can do the digging :-)

By the way, Matt Cain is already 6th in WAR on the 20th C Giants list (9th overall) and should pass Perry for 4th sometime in 2014. He's still 33 WAR behind Marichal for 3rd though.

The Giants blow them both out of the water with 492 WAR. There is a lot of 19th century in there but they pull out a win using just 20th century too with 419 WAR. Looks like the Red Sox still win easily on peak so might take the overall title. (Somebody who cares can do the digging :-)

That would be the Braves

Since 1901, top 10 in WAR 466 total, with maddux, Spahn, Niekro, Glavine, Smoltz all at 55 or higher. Throw in 19th century and they add Nichols, Willis, Clarkson, and Bond, and they blow away the Giants with about 610 total.

Scott Richmond, best known for being on the Canadian WBC team, has left the Canadian WBC team with an injury concern of some sort. He is to be replaced by Nick Bucci, who becomes the 49th player in the Milwaukee organization to go to the 2013 WBC.