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Except that by turning it into a business, they have lost the right to treat the now public parts of it as such. Note that the gay couple wasn’t going to stay in the owners quarters but in the public part of the building. In any case, there is a law, they have to obey it.

Why should Christians get special treatment and be placed above the law, which is what they are asking?

Fact is some queer men have damaged sphincters.
What about the state of the sheets in the morning?
When are so called gays going to get it?
Christian homes that offer rooms to “paying guests” not contractual tenants!
God demands a Christian home to be a reflection of their faith – not some sort of public convenience for queers to abuse.

Why don’t they understand? If you are running a business, you MUST comply with anti-discrimination legislation. There is no ‘there are plenty of other B&Bs’ or ‘it’s a matter of personal conscience’ or ‘it’s their own home too.’ They are running a business, it’s simple as that. The Bulls have no case whatsoever.

Bombarde these so called Christians with letters and phonecalls of complaint, maybe they’ll end up having to change their phone number, losing lots of business or just generally p!ssing them off. Ignorant bigotted imbeciles.

The Christian Institute – enough said. They have their own special brand of ‘christianity’ and seem to be attempting to drum up a “We’re being persecuted” idea. It doesn’t matter how many times they’re proved wrong in court, the message doesn’t seem to get through. All Christians are being asked to do is obey the same law as everyone else. That’s not discrimination.

As for the guesthouse, it’s not their home, it’s a business so it has to follow the appropriate rules. Would they expect to be allowed to only let rooms to white people? The Bible was used to justify racism so I’m sure that’d be just fine, eh?

They need to take a look at themselves and ask themselves if what their doing is really Christian or an attempt to excuse their own bigotry. I’d also point out to them that not all heterosexual couples booking in as Mr and Mrs are actually married anyway. And what about someone who’s RE-married? That’s adultery, isn’t it, so I guess they must do some thorough research into the personal life of their potential guests to see if they meet their ‘standards’ *rolls eyes* I love the way that ‘christians’ set themselves up as arbitrators of God’s will – how arrogant.

“Homosexual “rights” shamefully damage historical freedoms in this country. History will judge all this when people will eventually wake up from all this non-sense”

I’m sorry, but which century would you like us to remain in? Tudor times, Medieval times?

It’s not just about ‘Homosexual’ rights, it’s about Human Rights and the beliefs of a particular sect should never be allowed to interfere with that. By allowing that sort of attitude, you are effectively saying that discrimination is justified through belief! This is clearly ludicrous and can be dragged out to such extreme circumstances as people being stoned, for others’ beliefs.

I think you should join us in 2010 and get with real life and the real meaning of Christianity, rather than trying to use it to persecute people who don’t share your values!

Besides it’s the law. They WILL lose this case. The EHCR will see to it!

Saying: “If you can’t stand the heat get out of the kitchen”… Likewise, If you can’t obey the law, get out of business! I don’t like tax, do you think I’d get away with refusing to pay it if I said it was against my personal belief?

I also run a B&B and don’t think it would go down well if I listed that I wouldn’t serve ill informed, bigoted, (so called) Christians.

Most people I know who identify themselves as Christians would be horrified at the actions of these people in the name of their shared religion and rightly so! Lets face it – being an intolerant, judgemental, bigot is hardly in keeping with Christian values!

I suspect the complete truth is that the B&B owners are using this current ‘Christian’ get away with it ‘card’ to exclude ‘these homos’ cause they hate them. It is no different to hetro breeders putting their off spring into Catholic schools for a so called better education and CLAIMING to be religious… They are simply Hateful, ignorant bigots! Ahhh Men!

Surely this case emphasises to one and all how important it is that gay people be given the same rights as anybody else-namely THE RIGHT TO MARRY.
MARRIED-the guest-house owners could not have got away with saying “we treat ALL unmarried partners the same”. This issue is more about GAY MARRIAGE than anything else.

This is very clear cut for me. Do they have a right to decide what goes on in their own home? Of course they do. But the moment they turned it into a business it stopped being a home and became a business premises which they also live in. Want to discriminate in your own home? Fine, don’t open it to the public then.

Dave North, homosexuality and blackness is not the same thing. Blackness is in genes and cannot be changed. Homosexuality is not in genes, but is a mere behaviour from which thousands of people change every day and eventually live happy and healthy lives. Open your eyes!

They should be allowed to carry on the way they want. I am gay and like to know where i am not welcome. If i expect the right to have my own opinions and view of the world then i expect this to extend to everyone else too. I dont agree with them but i defend their right to live their lives the way they want. Maybe their Homophobic views should be clearer on all of their information to prevent gay people getting all the way there just to be turned away. I dont want to go on holiday to hateland.

I have just read the comments on the daily mail web site, I know, why? But what concerned me more than most about this is the way that some gay people see themselves. There are a couple of comments from a few gay people that think this is right that this B and B should trun people away. That we should shop around until we find some place suitable that will let us stay. STUFF THAT! I pay my taxes, and I want the same choice as as straight counterpart. I am not gonna settle for second best. What next? We go from A and E dept to A and E dept until we find a doctor that we dont offend. Becasue this is what this is, the thin edge of the wedge. Take away my choice then reduce the amount that I pay towards the cost of running this counrty. Or other wise give us equailty and shut up. And to the gay people that think that these people have a case, stand up and be counted and stop your inverted hate.

I’m no bible scholar (being pagan and all), but didn’t this whole Christian thing get started by a certain situation where an unmarried pregnant girl and her (not her husband/brother/father or other attached male family member) traveling companion get turned away from the inn? She had to resort sleeping in a manger with a bunch of animals (and not the frat house kind), and ended up giving birth there. Happy Holidays everyone.

According to the legend…The one great sin of the people of Sodom was that they failed to provide a safe welcome and hospitality to strangers.
It seems to me the couple who run the B&B are Sodomites in the accurate sense of the word.

The owners of the guesthouse have broken the law, a fact they seem to refuse to accept, so they need to be prosecuted to bring this reality home to them.

I don’t think this is just about the law being the law, after all we all have a right to disagree with the laws and try to change them as we do with issues of marriage inequality.

Obviously there is the issue of having to respect the law, but this isn’t all there is to this issue. This is about whether we should allow business to discriminate in the provision of goods and services. Do we want people to be able to turn away gays, blacks, Christians or ginger-haired people? Do we really want to live in that kind of society?

Having said that, the couple in question have a right to their opinion, just not to enforcing it. They should make it clear in all their marketing materials that this is a Christian hotel, etc and be prepared to lose business based on this. I for one would never want to go where I’m not welcome and know many straight married couples who wouldn’t want to go there either.

“James, in this case you stay black for life and at the same time have to decide to stay “gay” or move away from the popular delusion that you’re born that way.”

Did you decide to be so grossly misinformed in these matters? I mean you have access to the internet, you have libraries, and television, there is simply no excuse for you to be such an idiot, is there?

The only “popular delusion” here is you and that daft religion you follow that “thinks” for you.

I am delighted with the outcome of this case. Christian “values” that persecute have no place in a democracy, and of course the law is paramount over their right to discriminate. The whining cries of people like Comra only lend credence to the validity of this decision.

I imagine it is illegal anyway to discriminate against unmarried couples the way they have been doing…the Bulls have got it so wrong they really shouldn’t be running a guest house for paying guests at all.

There web site says “No petty restrictions, come and go as you please”.

It’s all very well leaving bigoted views to the booking form but if you are going to go against the law on your front page it shoudl say “Gays not welcome” or “Unmarrieds no welcome”.

Ultimately you like everyone else have to obey the law. If I said no Christians, Jews or Muslims in my B&B and definately not sleeping together they woulod have a fit.

People are entitled to their views however narrow they are but then quite righly you cannot run a business open to the public.

Of course the note on the booking page would stop me going there in the first place. I would then have reported them directly to the necessary dept. Did this gay couple not see that or were they just bringing a test case?

I always check out the best rated comments on the Daily Mail website under articles regarding lgbt rights and the evil EU Empire. They provide the unwashed with their daily fix of FUD and me with a daily fix of chuckle. But you need to have a stomach for it, I agree.

And a free legal advice for the gay couple in question? Don’t take the settlement. Take everything.

I will never understand why Christians are so bothered by the behaviour of other, non-Christian, people around them. Just because you subscribe to a certain moral code doesn’t mean you get to impose it on other people. It’s not like anyone’s forcing them to have extra-marital or gay sex.

Comra, actually the science seems to be pointing towards genetics when it comes to sexual orientation. You’re argument is deeply flawed. You base yours on religious nonsense. Being gay isn’t a choice just as being straight isn’t, or eye colour for that matter.

Yours is a chosen lifestyle. Nobody comes into this world religious, its all learned behaviour, most of it rooted in superstition and hatred of others who don’t conform to your very narrow view of the world and the reality of modern 21st century living. Get back into the cave from which you have come, you neanderthal and take your bible and shove it up your sad arse. I used mine for toilet paper years ago.

But are we sure they have broken the law? Some legal eagle help here, please; but I seem to remember when discrimination laws were being enacted exemptions were made for smaller businesses and those run at home: the ‘individual conscience’ argument. (I am not here arguing the rights or wrongs of all this, but it is perhaps a grey area.)

But in any case, if we are booking in advance, don’t we look for a gay-friendly b&b anyway? I have happily shared a bed in several of these, proprietors and staff, who obviously know ‘what is going on’, but also str8 fellow-guests, who are not daft either, not turning a hair.

And is it a total coincidence that the hotel had been ‘warned’ by Stonewall, and just a month later this couple chose it? Conspiracy theory, maybe; but gays have more cause than many to know that entrapment is at least morally questionable, whether done by pretty-boy police or anybody else.

The first is that if they are prepared to allow married but not unmarried couples to share a bedroom, they should also allow civil partners to share a bedroom.

If they refused to allow civil partners to share a bedroom then it would show that the aim of the rule requiring persons to be married was so as to discriminate on the grounds of sexuality.

The second is whether the requirement of marriage is a criteria that has a disproportionate effect upon gay couples. If it were to have such an effect, again it would appear to me to be discriminatory.

I have to wonder, have they EVER asked a married couple to prove they were married? I suppose when they see a man/woman at the registry, they “assume” them to be married much the same as they “assume” themselves to be good Christians.

These bigots must not get away with their bigotry with the pathetic defence that their beliefs are “genuinely held”. All beliefs are genuinely held! Adolf’s beliefs were “genuinely held”.

When the other gay couple were turned away from the Swiss B&B in Cookham, Berkshire, I wrote to the owners, Michael & Susanne Wilkinson. Michael Wilkinson wrote back to me saying that they had no problem with homosexuals “But we do draw a line at their respective activities in our family home. Is that so outrageous?”

These religious nutters have got a fixation with our “respective activities”, have they not? And, anyway, as I then pointed out to Mr. & Mrs. Wilkinson in my reply, what exactly ARE our “respective activities”? And how do they differ from the “respective activities” of heterosexual couples?

How does preventing a gay couple from sleeping in a bedroom, prevent the owners from practicing their religion at church? Their private home is now a hotel, and a hotel is NOT a place of worship, it’s a business.

To Comra – History is a passage of time with events influenced by humans, so any changes en-route are just part of that continuity of adjusting and moving on. Or would you also like the days of absolute monarchy and serfdom etc etc to return – probably no. The freedoms created are the very processes which have lead to full equality and respect for all. So thanks to our ancestors we have arrived as a society at a place justly due.

Presumably as Muslim and Jewish couples don’t have Christian marriage services they are not really married in the eyes of the B&B owners. So presumably all Jews and Muslims are also not welcome, be they married or not.

Wasn’t there a case very similar to this one in Great Britain just last year? I seem to remember it. A gay couple was refused accomodations at a B&B, either in England or in Wales if I remember correctly. If so, how did that case pan out? Because it could be a good indicator – a mirror if you will – of what will happen in this situation.

This is really awful. And the same thing happens over here all the time. They tell us we shouldn’t be allowed to get legally married, and then they use that discrimination against us by saying they will only accomodate married couples.

I just went back and had a second look and noticed they mentioned that case in the article. Whoops. Sorry about that. I just quickly scanned the article. I’m at work right now and I’m not supposed to be on the Internet at all. lol

Actually, its religion gone mad:- since when does belief in the supernatural give one the right to discriminate? “Playing the gay card” as you call it is nothing more then a ruse for idiots who want a state theocracy. Sorry, but that day ended a long time ago, so get over it.

Why, brit? Would you be happy if something similar happened to you for some spurious reason? Equality isn’t political correctness, it’s common human decency.

I don’t think the couple “played the ‘gay card’ ” either. I imagine they don’t go round announcing their sexuality to strangers – it was this couple who took it upon themselves to intrude into their personal life.

The similar case last year concerning the B&B guest house in Cookham run by the Wilkinsons is mentioned in the article and in these comments. But I never saw anything in Pink News reporting the outcome of that case. Does anyone know what happened to that story? Were the Wilkinsons prosecuted?

Wasn’t it a Tory senior member, who is now an appointed minister, who said the guesthouse owners have a right to deny services to gays? Chris Grayling is one of Cameron’s best friends. Go figure.
Gay tories ——> Duhhhh

“There is your issue, obviously neither of the the young gentleman could read. If they feel like picking it up may I suggest Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand as a good start.”

Just want to point out this is not me (Will from Dublin), but another “Will”, who thinks its okay to break the law once you put it on your website that you intend to do so…. so I’m off to torch the building I work in, and as I’m stating it here, it shoudl be okay.

Sure, if its a private premises. Look up your law definition, this is a public place of business. You seem confused by the difference. Here, let me help you:- This is a business. A business is a place the public can access. All business must follow the law, regardless of “personal mission statements”. Discrimination is not tolerated in business, otherwise we have an unjust society with people decided arbitrarily who they will serve. Like “No Blacks & No Irish” signs. These are what’s called “discrimination” John. Yeah? Still with me? A business must submit accounts, pay taxes, and provide reasonable safety to it’s staff and customers, so in turn they must observe anti-discrimination laws. Easy. right?

“The rules were made clear.”

Really, really stupid comment. I am so embarrassed for you right now, John. “Rules” on a website, (especially ones made up out of bigotry from an archaic book about a fictitious entity), do not give the arbitrarily right to break the law. If that was the case, we could add on our website, “if you do not pay your bill, we will kill you and rape your dog”, and that would be just dandy according to your enlightened philosophy?

“I wish gays would stop pushing their homosexuality in peoples faces, that’s how it gives us a bad name.”

Er, despite the use of the word “us”, its fairly clear from the tone of this statement you are neither gay, nor intelligent for that matter.

Time to read a book John, its a much better, and enlightening, pastime than posting embarrassing statements on a gay site, there’s a good chap….

I’m glad there is a court case on this , I kinda lost what happenned with the other B&B case and wasn’t sure what the legal sitution was …

Sounds like we should have another victory here for sure!!!. No-one should get away with this, it’s outrageous, it’s clearly not a home (they may have a section of it which is exclusively their domain) but normally the rest of the place is a business .. if it’s not then I hope they haven’t been claiming business allowances on their tax decalrations…

It’s such a shame , it looks like such an nice place and has such a wonderful view of the sea…

I may be getting muddled here, but wasn’t this the guest house who added that bit about married guests LATER – ie after all this blew up?

Either way, it’s clearly ludicrous. You can’t make up your own rules if they flout the law. Of course, we shouldn’t even need a law like this. It’s very sad that anyone would choose to discriminate in this way. People are entitled to their religious views, but they’re not entitled to break the law. Nor are they entitled to inflict their religion on others.

This is just smacks of blatant bigotry and highlights such small-mindedness and the owners are clearly lacking some basic christian principles. And following on from these other comments posted, you can’t run a business if it’s under your roof and say it is a private home and then say you can do what you like. This is a total breach of anti-distrimination legislation! Would Mr & Mrs Bull refuse to allow black, jewish, asian, disabled guests to stay at their hotel?

I wonder what would happen if a gay couple turned up and explained that they were actually married and Christian? This could be done if you were married in Sweden in a ceremony performed by the Church of Sweden. That would confuse the owners no end. And what is a Christian in any case – would they turn away Catholics, Anglicans or Baptists if they were not of the same denomination? Recipe for disaster.

Thank you for that, dave. My memory’s getting worse by the day, but I think they fiddled around with their wording more than once. I believe they removed the word ‘heterosexual’ to try to avoid charges of discrimination previously.

I imagine they’ve altered it to try to cover their backs, but discrimination is still discrimination however you word it and they broke the law.

I don’t remember anything in the Bible banning anyone from sharing a bed or a room. This couple are making an assumption that anyone sharing is going to have sex. If they were true to their beliefs they should allow the sharing of a room/bed but specify that sex is prohibited unless the couple is married.

If two women share a room and are sisters or business colleagues, would the owners object? I think not. Only if there are 2 men or women that are in love with each other.

What banning couples from sharing does is clarify that the discrimination is on the basis of who you are, not whether you have sex.

As mentioned on the Ekklesia website (http://www.ekklesia.co.uk/node/13682) : “That Christians do not rule others in the way they once did, does not amount to ‘persecution’. Instead, it is an invitation to rediscover patterns of church life in a plural society which show the heart of the Christian message to be about embracing others, not isolating ourselves; multiplying hope, not spreading fear; developing peaceableness, not resorting to aggression; and advancing compassion, rather than retreating into defensiveness.”

My Hubby and I stay in hotels and guesthouses quite often. In the early days I used to mention we were a same sex couple when booking, but after hearing “and you’re telling me this why?” I stopped. Now I just ask for the Gideons Bible to be taken out of the room as I am not Christian.

Since then the only issue we’ve had was when the Maitre D’ made a mistake at breakfast and asked Hubby for his room number as well. When the penny dropped a few seconds later he was very apologetic.

I shall be following this court case with interest. I hope an example is made of them. Once they have been told they are breaking the law, maybe we could organise a group outing and book the entire B&B in peak season, then if they turn us all away a guestless guesthouse can be very expensive to run…

Christian religion has no tolerance for homosexuality, in Christian teachings i’s an abnormal behaviour connected with disgusting practices and a Christian has a duty of disagreeing and struggling with anything that is sinful and immoral to spread goodness and purity. They had a right to refuse, it’s a matter of their faith, why can’t you understang that?

Gregory, they’re entitled to their faith but they’re NOT entitled to break the law. Why don’t YOU understand that the argument you’ve used has also been used to justify racism and murder? Why don’t YOU understand that ‘faith’ and ‘belief’ can mean anything. Someone could genuinely believe that god made all possessions and they’re all his, therefore no human can own them – so that believer can then be perfectly justified in breaking into your house and taking what he wants. When you call the police, I don’t imagine you’d be very pleased if they told you the law on theft didn’t apply to this man because of his ‘belief’.

Whatever your religion, everyone has to obey the law. What’s so difficult about that that you refuse to understand it? These people are entitled to their opinion – however, they are not entitled to act in a way that the law prohibits.

“They had a right to refuse, it’s a matter of their faith, why can’t you understang that?”

And why can’t you understand that no one wants you to ram that crap down everyone’s throat? I’m all for the “personal god”…. in other words, keep this nonsense to yourself. Christians have no legal right any more to elitism or enforced prejudice – inquisition days are over my friend, time to move on.

Well I’ve sent a note to Visit Britain / The English Tourism Council asking them whether they have awarded three diamonds to the hotel ( as claimed on the hotel’s website ), and further asking if they have, is it the kind of image they want to promote of England.

I’m no believer but as a business owner I think these people should be allowed to run their business as they see fit. I personally refuse to deal with potential clients I don’t like the look of for a variety of reasons. Why should they let people whose lifestyle they don’t agree with stay in their hotel. Good luck to them I say.
There’s plenty of other places to stay in Cornwall. Why not get a life and vote with your feet? Lifes too short.

Comra, your understanding of human sexuality is deeply flawed. On what basis do you presume to know what a gay persons experience of their own sexuality is despite what they may themselves say about that experience? There is some supporting evidence from a variety of scientific research that there is some genetic, hormonal or biological component which shapes a persons sexuality. So its not just a behaviour – but even if it were why would it be ethicly problematic for consenting adults to engage in same sex activity? ‘For a moral judgement to be respectable it must have something to say about why a supposed wrong action is wrongful. If it fails to meet this test it is preference and not a moral judgement at all’. Richard Holloway quoting John Harris in the book Godless Morality – Keeping Religion Out Of Ethics

Also, Comra, according to the British Medical Association, The Royal College of Psychiatrists and other respected and reputable medical and psychiatric bodies so called gay cure or reparative therapies for gay orientation are very damaging to a persons mental and physical well being and can lead to depression and suicidal behaviour. Also the supposed therapuetic techniques that are employed in reparative practice are unethical and are not recognised as sound counselling techniques. The people who practice them are usually not qualified or registered therapists or counsellors, and have little or no sound psychiatric or counselling training, knowledge or experience.

@straight bloke – you say the hotel owners should be allowed to run the business as they see fit. Sure, but do you think if they disagree with a particular law they shouldn’t have to conform to it ?

You then say you refuse to deal with potential clients you don’t like the look of for a variety of reasons. Do you ‘not like the look’ of gays for example ? What about minority groups that have suffered discrimination – black people ? Jewish people ? Do you not like the look of them ?

When you use the word lifestyle to describe someone’s sexual orientation, is that because you think it’s a choice they’ve made ? Even if it was, what business is it of yours ?

And, really, this is a site for gay people. What are you doing on it ?

Hey, guys (gays)! I have one question for you: you say that people are retarded because they don’t accept homosexualism as something normal, natural… So tell me, how will you explain the problem that you can’t have your own children in a natural way? is it the nature’s trick? I think this is the best indicator that homosexual orientation is a kind of perversion and abnormality… I don’t say that other people should treat you disrespectfully because of your abnormality, I think we all should treat others as they deserve looking at their deeds, but PLEEEAAASE, stop trying to convince society that homosexualism is normal, ’cause it isn’t! greetings & peace

@james – thanks for the question. Who is saying that people are retarded because they don’t accept homosexualism as something normal, natural. Couldn’t find anybody on this page. Do you homosexuality ?

Why is this a problem ? What do you mean by the word ‘abnormality’ ? For example. you probably shave – only humans do this, no other creatures do it – is it unnatural or abnormal ? Loads of other species exhibit homosexuality, so that’s kind of natural. How do you explain the problem that you have to use a machine to keep your hair short ? Do you think it’s nature’s trick ?

So tell me, how will you explain why you think that gay people can’t have children naturally ? Do you think their genitals don’t work ? Do you think they’re infertile ?

We look forward to you posting another trolling under a different name in a minute.

Well, I personally think stupidity is an abomination, as stupidity is not “natural” for humans, we are “naturally” an intelligent species. You demonstrate stupidity. Are you saying its okay to push you out of society? I sure hope so, as your genes are clearly defective if you demonstrate that low level of understanding of what’s “natural” in public. We can’t have you passing such unnaturally defective genes to another generation.

@ James first of all when have I ever said that people who have a prejudice towards gay men and women are ‘retarded’? Show me one comment where I have ever used that word or any other form of name calling when I seek to challenge and question prejudice and discrimination. “homosexualism”… where did you drag that term up from – the pocket book of Victorian England or something? Define the term ‘normal’ James. What does that mean exactly? Are left handed people ‘abnormal’ because most people are right handed? For a left handed person being left handed is normal – are you suggesting that the left handed should be treated less favorably and with less respect because most people are right handed? Come on James lets have a look at this shall we. Define the terms ‘normal’ and ‘natural’.

Visit Britain / The English Tourism Council mailed me back to say the hotel is not currently participating in the diamond scheme, so they can’t investigate my complaint about the discrimination against gays (and latterly – the site’s wording changes – unmarried straight couples).

But, they did say they’d passed this onto someone who deals with improper signage and they will ask the owner to remove the reference to Visit Britain off their website.

Hello again guys! Didn’t suppose you’ll be so stinging because of one question, now I’m in great melancholy after your attacks:( and I used to be so gay;) I just wanted to understand what your attitude to your orientation is, ‘cause I haven’t met any guy yet and I’m just curious… @21stCenturySpirituality, the term ‘retarded’ was used on this site, I read it a few days ago: “I love this website, you get to read the weirdest, most retarded people you could ever imagine”, isn’t it impolite?:( anyway, I’ll give you an answer because you are the only well-mannered person here;) Let’s start from this: ‘should be treated less favorably and with less respect’ – I don’t treat any group of people worse when they aren’t like me or the majority, it includes homosexuals, if I met you I wouldn’t try to hurt you in any way to show you my disrespect towards you, believe me… I respect or disrespect people according to their personality, views and deeds. That’s one thing. Another matter – the definition of abnormality. I don’t see the left handed, the fat, the stupid (like me), the diseased etc. as abnormal, however homosexualITY isn’t something normal for me (BUT it still doesn’t mean that I would treat you with less respect). If a group of gays was sent to deserted island, they would die without taking advantage of their sperm and the island would again be deserted;) this world is constructed the way it is – a man plus a woman is a family (with a child). If homosexuality was normal, homosexual pairs would have a natural ability to give birth to children. They don’t have it, they wouldn’t survive on this planet alone, the evolution didn’t let them reproduce so their existence together (in relationships) isn’t natural. It’s just abnormality in genes or changes in psyche (caused by social conditions etc.) that makes you homosexual. That’s all, thanks for conversation, greetings:)

Well that says it all, doesn’t it? A self deluded queer. Like it in the closet do you, James?

“homosexual pairs would have a natural ability to give birth to children.”

This is even funnier. So, are straight couples that are infertile “unnatural” too? Why is “natural” only ever related to having children with these idiots?

Oh, and “the evolution” that you seem to refer to, do you actually know what you’re talking about? So, how is it that my parents are straight? Messes up your “logic” a tad, eh?

Sorry, James, we’re all a little stronger than you were, we don’t exist in the “ex-gay” closet. We have what’s called self realisation, and pride in that. Some people are just stronger than others, that’s all.

“homosexualITY isn’t something normal for me”

Its called denial. ever hear of Ted Haggard? You and he have loads in common… you never know, you might meet in a gay sauna or a dark park sometime.

@ James…so under your line of arguement in order to be a ‘normal’ and an acceptable human being – for my life to have value and worth I must concieve a child. I find that line of thinking rather callous, particularly for people who for whatever reason cannot concieve a child – are they to be viewed as being of less value to humanity for that reason then James and so they can make no useful or valuable contribution to humanity and the world then James, is that it? We’ll just cull them all then shall we James, round them up and cart them off to the gaschambers? Heres another question for you: If 50,000 children die of starvation everyday and we bring 100,000 new mouths into the world to feed every day how does that benefit humanity? Am I to understand that you are a Christian James because if you are claiming to be so I think that your ethics are seriously at odds with the central message of Christianity. And once again when did I ever engage in name calling or use the term retarded in my remarks? Yes thats right – I didn’t.

gay (adj.) – having or showing a merry, lively mood (dictionary.reference.com) – that’s what I meant saying ‘I used to be so gay’, that supposed to be a funny ambiguous sentence, you didn’t catch it:/ (or maybe my sense of humour isn’t actually a good one), instead of that you tried to create my psychological profile… try to think figuratively from time to time, you may have a lot of fun, believe me;) couples that are infertile aren’t abnormal, it’s just health problems that make them unable to have children while gays are unable to have children because they don’t have appropriate organs for that, their bodies aren’t adapted to it, it’s obvious that they wouldn’t create new generations alone, go to the deserted island with your partner and you’ll see that nature doesn’t treat your relationship as something natural:) “how is it that my parents are straight?” if they weren’t maybe the world would be deprived of one of Wills (which of course would be a terrible loss;)), anyway, you aren’t like your parents because of your genes or changes in psyche (environment), that’s all, scientifically proved:) talking about grammar – do you ignore or disrespect all the people who do not use grammar in such a excellent manner as you do? a little humility wouldn’t hurt, you may meet a person who isn’t skillful in conversation, but is much more intelligent and smart than you;) of course I don’t talk about myself, I’m just an embarrassing 4 year old:) greetings:)

That comment above is to Will. @Harry, it’s not that you are unnatural, it’s your orientation that is unnatural, abnormal, because nature didn’t allow homosexual pairs to have their own children. @21stCenturySpirituality, you still don’t understand me, I don’t think homosexuals are of less value for humanity, because they can’t conceive a child, I just hold that the inability to conceive a child is the indicator that homosexuality isn’t natural.

Seriously, do you really need to put all those “:)” into your comments to make you look clever?

“anyway, you aren’t like your parents because of your genes or changes in psyche (environment), that’s all, scientifically proved”

No, its not. If you had any schooling at all, you realise that genes and DNA does not change over the lifetime of an individual, only epigenetic marks on DNA (chemical marks other than the DNA sequence) exhibit minor changes. DNA remains fixed. How stupid you are to suggest that. I am well versed in science (I took the time to educate myself, hence I can write), so, by all means show me the studies you refer to.

If you can’t, then your a liar. And if you’re a liar, then you’re just a lying bigot.

“do you ignore or disrespect all the people who do not use grammar in such a excellent manner as you do? ”

Of course. Why would I take “science lessons” of someone on a gay site spitting hate and lies about things they so clearly do not understand?

“you may meet a person who isn’t skillful in conversation, but is much more intelligent and smart than you;”

LOL. Highly unlikely. Your grammar is a bad as your reasoning.

“I’m just an embarrassing 4 year old:”

Actually, I’ll take that back. Most 4 year olds are not bigots, that’s an acquired trait. You developed bigotry due to your less then erudite environment and poor upbringing. I blame your parents.

Here’s one for you James, since you protest too much as the “ex-gay” comment:

It has been scientifically proven that the more homophobic you are, the more likely you are to be gay. As it is not “natural” for straight people to enter into a gay site such as this, like you are doing, and carry on with such wilful homophobic ignorance in public, what do you think we can conclude from that, hmmm?

The proof:- In 1996, a controlled study of 64 heterosexual men (half claimed to be homophobic by experience and self-reported orientation) at the University of Georgia found that men who were found to be homophobic (as measured by the Index of Homophobia) were considerably more likely to experience more erectile responses when exposed to homoerotic images than non-homophobic men [Index of Homophobia: W. W. Hudson and W. A. Ricketts, 1980.]

“Seriously, do you really need to put all those “:)” into your comments to make you look clever?”

I see you have a problem with a stupid symbol, sorry, from now on I’ll be using this (:

“No, its not. If you had any schooling at all, you realise that genes and DNA does not change over the lifetime of an individual, only epigenetic marks on DNA (chemical marks other than the DNA sequence) exhibit minor changes. DNA remains fixed. How stupid you are to suggest that. I am well versed in science (I took the time to educate myself, hence I can write), so, by all means show me the studies you refer to.”

I do know that genes don’t change over the lifetime of an individual. What I meant by saying that genes have an influence on the orientation is that the causes of homosexuality may be associated with genetics (did you hear about the homo gene? research is now being done on it) and the effects of prenatal hormones.

“Of course. Why would I take “science lessons” of someone on a gay site spitting hate and lies about things they so clearly do not understand?”

The question was: ‘do you look down on people who use grammar less skillfully than you’, not: ‘do you disagree to take science lessons from hateful fools’. Besides, I don’t feel hatred towards gays, I don’t know where you took that opinion from.

“you may meet a person who isn’t skillful in conversation, but is much more intelligent and smart than you;”
“LOL. Highly unlikely. Your grammar is a bad as your reasoning.”

I told you I wasn’t talking about myself. I just wanted to explain to you that you shouldn’t be that bumptious, ‘cause one day you may ignore useful and important advice, lesson or opinion of a person wiser than you.

“I’m just an embarrassing 4 year old:”
“Actually, I’ll take that back. Most 4 year olds are not bigots, that’s an acquired trait. You developed bigotry due to your less then erudite environment and poor upbringing. I blame your parents.”

Why are you so aggressive? You shouldn’t be so cocky and arrogant when you’re talking about other person’s parents. I don’t attack your family, so leave mine alone. One day you may thoughtlessly attack an orphan or a victim of child molestation.

“Here’s one for you James, since you protest too much as the “ex-gay” comment:
It has been scientifically proven that the more homophobic you are, the more likely you are to be gay…”

Oh boy, why do you think I’m homophobic and I don’t want to admit to myself that I’m homosexual? You just met a person who has different opinion about the phenomenon of homosexuality and immediately assumed that he’s homophobic with problems? That explanatory talking about “I used to be so gay” was true, maybe you can’t stand that you didn’t understand that it was supposed to be a simple tricky expression with ambiguous meaning? I really don’t hate homosexuals, I’m just interested in today-world’s-frustrating issues such as homosexuality, abortion, religion, tradition vs. progress and so on. I found this page thanks to a link from some ‘info’ portal, don’t try again to create my psychological profile, you don’t know me. I don’t look down on gays, the one who looks down on anybody is you.

That is a line of arguement that has been used to deny gay people equality and justice so while you claim not to hate gay people why do you use rhetoric that is used to justify prejudice and discrimination against gay people?

“What I meant by saying that genes have an influence on the orientation is that the causes of homosexuality may be associated with genetics (did you hear about the homo gene? research is now being done on it) and the effects of prenatal hormones.”

By all means, show me the study. You keep saying this, yet you cite no references. And if the genes of so many people show this “homo gene”, then logically homosexuality is a natural desirable trait that benefits the species, otherwise evolution would remove it. Undesirable traits are not propagated. You DO understand that is how evolution works, don’t you? So, by your own statement, now we’re natural. Make up your mind.

“Why are you so aggressive?”

Its not aggression, its disdain. Disdain for your ignorance. Disdain for people who come into a gay site and start spouting “unnatural” nonsense when they clearly have no idea what they are talking about. Why ARE you here?

“I don’t attack your family, so leave mine alone”

Sorry, no can do… Bigotry is an acquired trait. Its learned. Where did you learn if from if not your parents? In the absence of any other information, the assumption that your parents are bigots too is a logical one, so why have such issue with that? Did they run around with pillow cases on their head when they bought you your first burning cross for christmas?

I have done nothing of the sort. I merely gave you the evidence that most homophobic people are gay themselves. Coming into a gay site and calling everyone unnatural is actually homophobic, no matter what you chose to believe. You do the math as to the logical outcome of that is. You seem to have an issue with this. No matter.

“I’m just interested in today-world’s-frustrating issues such as homosexuality, abortion, religion, tradition vs. progress and so on”

Protest too much here. Its a pity you can’t match your interest with learning, then you wouldn’t spout such unsupported “scientific” opinions such as yours here. And as I said before, most normal people do not find they need to come into a gay site and start accusing people of being “un-natural”, there is NOTHING normal about that behaviour at all. Its not a stretch of the imagination to see you have your own issues to deal with, my guess is with sexual issue, and this is how you vent. Do you really expect us to agree wit you??? Please, you can hardly string a sentence together. Lets be frank, we’ve seen may of your kind in here before, and while they exhibit the same lack of understanding in science, they can actually write better. This might be a surprise to you, but none of us are going to take science advice or suggestions of “un-natural” from someone who clearly has a learning difficulty.

I am natural. I was born this way, so it is natural. So is everyone here. You have made no argument to dissuade that belief.

And the majority of civilised people and science agrees with me on that. Its you that on your own.

James, WHY are you here? To tell us we’re all ‘unnatural’ or to comment on the story – ie the fact that some Christians want an opt-out from the law? Do you agree with that – that people should be allowed to pick and choose which laws they follow? Or, is the Bible, the only ‘law’ for you?

@james – so I wondered a couple of times about your use of the word ‘natural’. I really have no idea what it means. If something occurs – even only once – in the world, then it must be ‘natural’ – i.e. of nature. The neck of giraffe is uniquely long – is it ‘natural’ ?

If behaviour occurs many times in different species, is it ‘natural’ ? Homosexuality occurs in loads of different species. Do you deny this ? I just notice you’ve avoided answering this question.

“it’s not that you are unnatural, it’s your orientation that is unnatural, abnormal, because nature didn’t allow homosexual pairs to have their own children.” What does this even mean ? Homosexuality is so common in the animal kingdom, and yet according to you, it’s ‘unnatural’. I’m guessing you identify as a straight man. ( Of course many people on this forum will suspect you’re repressed. ) But you’re spending a deal of time arguing on a gay site that gay activity is ‘unnatural’ ( whilst avoiding telling us what you mean by that ). I kind of think that’s a lal strange – do you tell other animals that their behaviour is ‘unnatural’ ?

I mean really. What are you trying to achieve ? Have you nothing better to do ?

“I just hold that the inability to conceive a child is the indicator that homosexuality isn’t natural.” Stop saying ‘it’s not natural’ ! It happens – loads of times – in nature. Therefore it’s natural ! Get over it. Even if it happened once, or in one group, it would be natural. By your reasoning, a single man is unnatural because he can’t conceive a child. By your reasoning, an infertile couple is unnatural because they can’t conceive a child.

Has anyone else noticed how much better James’ English has gotten just in the last comment? Somewhat miraculous this rapid learning. The hand of god himself must have descended on his keyboard to help fight the hordes of “unnatural” homosexualisms-thingies.

And the reference to “I’m just interested in today-world’s-frustrating issues such as homosexuality, abortion, religion, tradition vs. progress and so on.”

Anyone think this is a little too “Hank-like”? Its practically the same kind of thing Hank says.

I think James is trolling here, pretending to be some inbred hick… or could be Hank, in which case he’s not pretending, and *is* actually an inbred hick. LOL!

“I really have no idea what it means. If something occurs – even only once – in the world, then it must be ‘natural’ – i.e. of nature.”

Well said, Harry, and quite correct. Natural, by very definition is anything that occurs in nature. If homosexuality (or homosexualisms, as our erudite James puts it) occurs in nature, including with humans, without artificial man-made intervention, it is therefore natural. Logically, Occam’s Razor dictates that James is either a liar, or a fool, or both.

Of course, I’m just waiting for the religious tripe from James that inevitably follows the “what is natural” question. This is of course, the classic naturalistic fallacy of ignorance.

Well, James, if “god” doesn’t like the way I am, he can go to feckin’ hell…..

……………oh, wait, I thought I’d be struck down for saying that. I’m still here. How curious. Can’t god strike me down as the bible says he will? Maybe god actually likes me being gay. If god did not strike me down, therefore there is no god, or god likes me just the way I am.

“You may not have been struck down now but come Judgement Day you’ll be tortured for eternity by a loving, merciful, forgiving….hang on a minute?”

Ah, yes, you are right of course. However, if everyone gay will “automatically”, be in hell, including anyone that has “sinned”, well lets see: my partner will be with me, as will all my gay friends so that’ll make eternity pretty good. My partner likes the heat too, so he’s happy. My family and friends will be there too, as they support my “sinful” life. This isn’t sounding anything as bad as they say….

And yes, I’d like to be as far away from that “loving, merciful, forgiving” god the Christian talk about that gets p!ssed off and torches an entire city simply because someone made a tacky gold bull or looked at him sideways. He sounds awful.

I am fed up listening to the word discriminate ,Like i did not get a seat on the plane as i am too fat or my child did not get into a certain school because i am black ,and on and on you all go.Grow up and try and fit in to society or have you all got such chips on your shoulders that you have to rebel against every thing that does not go your way.Life is not easy, it takes guts to live life the way it was meant to be lived. If being gay is caused genetically there should be less and less gays around since they are not multiplying naturally, so how do they pass on the faulty gene ? The question is if it is not caused genetically then gays are brought up to become gays.

As usual there are different views on this when it is clear only one view counts! These 2 ‘gays’ decieded to stay at a hotel that CLEARLY stated on their website unmarried couples couldn’t share a room. Regardless of the fact they are ‘gay’ they were not married! what’s the problem? I live in Cornwall and years ago i too went there with my then GIRLFRIEND and we too couldn’t share a room as we weren’t married! Did we kick off or sue? NO! because we are DECENT people who respect the owners views and beliefs! The owners are christians who live by the real law, the bible which again they clearly state! why have they been taken to court? These 2 ‘gays’ OBVIOUSLY went to this hotel deliberately looking for trouble! it’s disgracefull! Maybe i should sue my Mum for discrimination because when i was younger whilst under her roof i couldn’t sleep with my girlfriend!! I am LIVID! I have never been ‘homophobic’ but this case has made me see what ‘gays’ are like!

I have just read Wills post and it’s ‘people’ like you who make ‘gay’ so bad and why people dislike gays! You are spouting off for what reason? because you’ve been ‘discriminated’ against? lol! NO! You are jumping on the bandwagon and decieding this is about the fact you are gay and these people didn’t want you because you are gay! PATHETIC! Bottom line is if a man and woman went there unmarried they would recive the same response! what? are the hotel owners against everyone? lol! how have they still got a business?!

As for the thickos who go on about it being a business and they therefore should basically be a slave to the public?! You really are thick scum aren’t you?! next time you see someone drunk in a pub or wherever and they are asked to leave? make sure you stand up for them and point out the establishment’s discriminating against drunks! Next time you find out a paedophiles living next to your kids school and people are going mad? make sure you defend the paedophile! You people are the REAL problem and need to shut your mouths! On here slagging off a DECENT couple for living by and running a business by the real, correct beliefs! you are scum! You lot are the same lot who don’t bat an eyelid about teen scrubber scum having kids. Your the sort who if i went out and RIGHTLY beat up teens who have constantly terrorised me and my neighbours for months but the law wont help, you’d slag me off! If a teacher takes years of abuse from scum and snaps 1 day (rightly so) youd slag them off! It’s people like you that are destroying this once ‘great’ country and world

Whilst I agree with the expressions written on the webite, the whole episode smacks of a deliberate tryon with the help of some gay organsations. Me, I would have been disappointed, but I would not have made such a song and dance about it far less sue .
There are places which say “gays only here” and I seek them out BEFORE I turn up at the door.

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