500 words a day on whatever I want

Trayvon Martin

Note: I wrote this post based on what was publicly known on March 12th, two weeks after the murder. Other posts I wrote about it are linked below.

Trayvon Martin (1995-2012) was a 17-year-old black boy killed two weeks ago on February 26th 2012 by a 28-year-old white man, George Zimmerman, captain of the neighbourhood watch. Zimmerman had a gun, a car and instructions from police not to follow Martin. Martin had Skittles, an iced tea and a 140 pounds (63kg) body weight. Zimmerman claims self-defence. The police saw no reason to doubt that and let him walk free.

The police are still looking into the matter and for that reason have not yet made public the emergency telephone call that Zimmerman made just minutes before the shooting. They say it backs up Zimmerman’s claim of self-defence.

Martin was up from Miami visiting his father inSanford, Florida, a suburb of Orlando. He was watching the NBA All-Star game on television and went out to buy an iced tea and get his brother some candy. He never made it back. Ten minutes later he was dead, just 70 feet (20m) from his father’s house

When Zimmerman saw Martin he called police to report a “suspicious person in the area”. The police told him not follow him, that they would be there soon. Despite that Zimmerman continued to follow Martin in his car – because “they always get away”.

When Martin noticed Zimmerman following him in his car, he said, “What’s your problem?” Zimmerman got out of his car. They fought. It appears that Martin hit him in the nose – his nose was bleeding, there was grass on his back and the back of his head was bleeding.

Zimmerman: “I was yelling for someone to help me but no one would help me.”

Zimmerman shot Martin in the chest. When police arrived Martin was dead, face down in the grass.

Zimmerman had a permit to carry the 9mm handgun that he killed Martin with. Neighbourhood watches are supposed to report anything strange to the police, not take the law into their own hands and gun down people.

The police arrested Zimmerman. He confessed to the killing but said it was self-defence. The police let him go. They said they respected Zimmerman’s background, that he had studied criminal justice for four years and was squeaky clean.

Zimmerman was arrested in 2005 for resisting arrest with violence and battery on a police officer. The charges were apparently dropped.

Even before the shooting several neighbours had complained of aggressive tactics by Zimmerman.

The police say they do not yet have enough evidence to arrest Zimmerman, that the family is jumping to conclusions, that the police are making a fair investigation regardless of colour.

The family’s lawyer said, “I don’t think they have any intention on arresting this white man for killing this black boy,” that race is the “the 600lb elephant in the room”. He wants to hear the emergency call Zimmerman made.

Zimmerman’s telephone has been disconnected. It is unknown where he is.

Martin once pulled his father out of a burning kitchen. He wanted to be a pilot or an aviation mechanic. Now he is dead.

Yep my heart aches for this family. We are in a gated community not much diversity, either! This story hits home. Petition signed, number 253. It’s time for racial survival boot camp-2012 and my boys are only 6 and 3-this story is bookmarked for later discussions with them. It’s a crying shame.

**And let me guess- what the opposition will say- oh he deserved to die, because he was wearing thug-type apparrel- remember Martin was the victim (not the other way around!)**

Also take this into account, if Martin had been a reflection of himself (white) they might have fought, but his life wouldn’t have been taken. Or better yet, he would have made it home without being followed or deemed suspicious and his brother and Martin would have been enjoying the Skittles and Arizona ice tea!

In the midst of this tragedy, you can find the vitriol to say “what the opposition will say- oh he deserved to die”. This is a horribly irresponsible statement. NO ONE says or thinks this. To project this onto someone else is pathetic.

I’ve thought of little besides this for days now. I’ve had so many thoughts surrounding this. I keep putting myself there, in Trayvon’s shoes. And while I was reading Abagond’s post, it struck me that there was no way this would ever end well for Trayvon. Of course, it would be so much better if he still had his life. Still, suppose someone had responded to Zimmerman’s call for “help”. Who would believe the black kid didn’t start the fight? I can see him being arrested for assault and all of them just taking Zimmerman’s word for it.

It just hurts that there is no way a black male gets the benefit of the doubt over a white one. In every scenario it ends the same way. It feels like our freedom is an illusion. Certainly justice is.

I am sick and tired of reading stuff like this. It’s stuff like this why black people are angry.

Since there is no justice for innocent black people, maybe black people should take justice into their own hands, since racist white people have little to no problem gunning down/hunting black males like animals.

I have a younger brother, who is autistic. If he were black, it would scare me to death to think that I couldn’t trust white people to let him be safe in our own neighborhood. It’s bad enough when you look suspicious, but if you are unable to communicate in a way that satisfies them, your life is even more at risk. It’s even scarier that all they did was nod and say okay your free to go.

How awful is it that you can stalk and murder a black boy and get off because of “self-defense” on your word only? And soon we’ll be seeing people trying to rationalize it and say he must’ve earned it somehow.

I am curious to know how Randy (for one) will explain ‘incidents’ such as this one as a manifestation of tribalism normative to human societies, because this is another instance of mere ‘anecdote’ and not ‘data’.

Very few details about this case appear to have been released to the public so far. One neighbor, speaking anonymously, has apparently stated that Zimmerman had been over-aggressively conducing neighborhood watch activities. The race of the complainant to my knowledge has not been revealed.

Whether or not this incident involves racism would seem to hinge on whether Zimmerman accosted Martin simply because he was a black, or because he was an unknown person.

Without that knowledge, I cannot see how a conclusion absent of confirmation bias can be drawn.

Whether or not this incident involves racism would seem to hinge on whether Zimmerman accosted Martin simply because he was a black, or because he was an unknown person.

Using your scientific knowledge, how likely do you think it is that this bloke would admit that it was due to Martin’s race? I certainly wouldnt expect a neighborhood watchman to accost a teenager, particularly if he had been given instruction by the police not to.

Can anyone tell me whether neighborhood watch people are generally armed with guns?

….Without that knowledge, I cannot see how a conclusion absent of confirmation bias can be drawn.

So, you cant make a comment based on the facts given? This is all anybody can and will be able to do isnt it? Or do you tend to conduct your own investigations when asked your opinion on such matters? Come on Randy, you’re stalling.

“One neighbor, speaking anonymously, has apparently stated that Zimmerman had been over-aggressively conducing neighborhood watch activities. The race of the complainant to my knowledge has not been revealed.”

– And here we go … WTH does the race of the complainant have to do with anything????

“Whether or not this incident involves racism would seem to hinge on whether Zimmerman accosted Martin simply because he was a black, or because he was an unknown person.”

– Typical, predictable *white racial frame* response when a white person in some type of policing (controlling) action kills or murders yet another UNARMED black person. After 400-500 years, the slave patrols – in one form or another – are still at work in AmeriKKKa.

Will the white collective ever be disgusted, angry and outraged at the continual slaughter of black people at the hands zealots working for a white supremacist legal system, a system that routinely, consistently, dispenses black/brown people to an early death?

I don’t generally find it useful to form conclusions based upon insufficient evidence. “I don’t know” is a perfectly acceptable, and often most scientifically accurate opinion. Do people want actual justice, or just an opportunity to vent their emotions?

Of course, there’s no guarantee of justice even when allowing for due process, but without it, there’s nearly no chance.

As for the firearm issue, it’s quite common in the south for residents to legally carry concealed weapons.

@Matari: The race of complainant might be germane to determine if Zimmerman had a history of specifically targeting black people.

In characteristically histrionic form, you erroneously took that to mean that if the complainant were black, that the issue should be discounted.

Reading stuff like this saddens and enrages me. White America has snapped.
This was a LONG time coming. All the perceived ‘privileges’ that blacks have combined with the fact that we’re now moving into predominantly white neighborhoods, coupled with our rise to middle and upper class economic status, and please do not forget a guy called Mr. Obama, racist whites have finally lost it.

This, sadly, is no longer shocking. It’s expected. A young black youth in a white neighborhood spells nothing but drugs and trouble in the minds of some whites.
This Zimmerman fella obviously had an axe to grind. Taking courses in criminal justice? And having a gun? He appointed himself as “Neighbourhood Constable: Out for Justice!”

Race was, is, and always will be the 600lb elephant in the room when cases like these happen. And anyone who denies it is delusional or lying.

To the white commenters here who try to justify this and play the ” But, no one knows what really happened and we don’t have enough evidence card”
Give it up!
We’re on to all of you. And you know that.
Your pleas have now fallen on deaf ears. You’re not trying to change because you don’t WANT to change. You enjoy this more than you care to admit. But saying it would make you a monster. So you tango around the subject and use science to explain your false hypothesis.

I hope all the black bloggers and commenters who have black boys sit down with them and explain things ” Like it is.”
Lord knows, it might mean saving their lives.

I don’t generally find it useful to form conclusions based upon insufficient evidence. “I don’t know” is a perfectly acceptable, and often most scientifically accurate opinion. Do people want actual justice, or just an opportunity to vent their emotions?

I would say that “I dont know…..but I intend to probe and find out’ is a perfectly acceptable and expected approach in Scientific terms, wouldnt you?
Some people are happy to stop at the former and leave it whilst others will ignore the former jumping straight to the latter, not admitting that they dont understand the basic premise of what the question, statement or whatever stems from.

“Will the blacks ever be done with their racist hyperbole, where they make exaggerated statements like this in every incident, while ignoring their own excessive violent crime rate.?

A group that champions obvious murderers like OJ Simpson, Mumia Jamal, and Troy Anthony Davis has much to think about.”

Let me fire a question back at you.

Will the whites ever be done with their racist generalization, where they make exaggerated statements like the ones you are making, while ignoring their own excessive hatred and pathological violence towards blacks?

” The race of complainant might be germane to determine if Zimmerman had a history of specifically targeting black people.”

*******************************
I didn’t err, Randy.
The race of the complainant has nothing to do with Zimmerman’s possible history. You’re simply back-pedaling – trying to save your nonsensical statement with yet another of your typical Randy-ques BS explanations.

C’moon, man! You know absolutely that if this had been a white kid this gun nutter would have not shot him like a dog! The only reason why this ameteur nazi gunslinger killed the kid was the fact that he was black and in his eyes some one to shoot at without a fear of any responsibility. Killer is loose. What whould you be screaming if a black adult man would have shot a white teenager?.

I am not a troll. I comment here just like everybody else. You can like/dislike and agree/disagree with me. That’s fine. If you send a sensible comment my way, I’ll probably respond and I would respond honestly. But I think your problem with me is that you just don’t like/agree with me, and you can’t handle that.

Well; pretty messed up though as lifelearner points out this might be something to teach their kids about inregards to racial survival.

Rule #1: If your going to a mainly white middle class area where almost nobody knows you and you happen to be black, don’t wear thug apparel.

Rule#2: Always go out with at least one other person, regardless of where you live.

Rule#3: Carry a cell phone, if Trayvon had called the police about some guy hurrassing him this could have ended totally differently. At the very least Trayvon might have simply ended up in jail for “assault” instead of being dead.

In nearly every situation ending up like this, especially in situations with the police, an important element in the chain of events leading up to the tragedy, the black man has committed some form of violence or defiance. This happened here where Trayvon punched Zimmerman, resulting in a fight. I’m not saying this one element in the chain of events is solely responsible for the outcome, but it is a critical element. And one that black men need to take responsbility. It cannot be ignored, like it appears to be in this thread.

#1: Don’t dress like a criminal in an area thats probably racially biased against you, pretty good idea

#2: Applies to every body, regardless of race, gender or creed, never go out alone if you can help it.

#3: Call the police if you can instead of dealing with it yourself, they get paid to take these risks, you don’t.

The fact that people don’t think to call the police doesn’t mean it isn’t a good idea.

And from the statements given Zimmerman had a license to carry a gun and thus it was completely in his rights to carry one, maybe american needs new gun laws but as it is now there was nothing wrong with him having a weapon in and of itself.

How this whole thing went down just enrages me. If I’m walking back from the corner store and some random creep was following me, I wouldn’t respond positively. This Zimmerman didn’t back off (as he should have and was even instructed to). Regardless of who threw the first punch, you mean to tell me a 140 lb kid was beating you so badly that you had to SHOOT him? That stinks to high heaven.

And whats with this “They always get away” crap? He’s walking down the street!

And you’ve been pulled over by the police but you’ve never had a random white guy try to do a citizens arrest on you either I suspect.

As for Cops not coming, you could always lie and say some white women is being attacked. Admitably that leads to problems when they do show up but it at least means some kind of legal presence is there.

In nearly every situation ending up like this, especially in situations with the police, an important element in the chain of events leading up to the tragedy, the black man has committed some form of violence or defiance.

Are you saying that if you get into a brawl with another individual, they have the right to shoot you?

Violence? Defiance? Is it wrong to be peeved when someone treats you like a suspect when you are walking about minding your own business?

Look at the girls on Racist White Teens – that will show you how mouthy young people are capable of being. They sounded off about how they felt about their peers leaving it appears, no holds barred. However, most rational people would not think that, despite the ‘chain of events’ they deserved to be shot!

For heavens sake – take your head out of your arse and be objective. In this instance, I hope this is NOT another racially motivated act, it would be too awful to contemplate to have yet another statistic that matches this criteria. But STOP justifying reactions of this nature just because you ‘fear’ that Martin ‘might’ have been ‘one’ of the minority of black men who was potentially violent.

Apparently my whole concept of the “chain of events”, each element of which contributes to the final outcome, went right over your head. I was making at least 2 points

1. Trayvon didn’t have to attack , he is responsible for doing that, and it is one of the elements of the chain of events leading up to the tragedy.

2. It’s amazing that in nearly all cases like, the black man has committed some violence or defiance, and he and the black community want to shout “racism” but just never seem to mention the black man’s part in aggravating the situation.

“Is it wrong to be peeved when someone treats you like a suspect” YES. it was completely wrong for Trayvon to punch out Zimmerman. He should have just went back into the apartment.

“you get into a brawl with another individual, they have the right to shoot you? ” Probably yes. People have the right to defend themselves. Whether or not this was the appropriate situation is up to the police and courts.

“STOP justifying reactions of this nature just because you ‘fear’ that Martin ‘might’ have been ‘one’ of the minority of black men who was potentially violent.” I have NOT justified the shooting. I said that even Trayvon’s fighting was just one element in the tragic chain of events leading up to the shooting. There was no “might” here. Trayvon did fight, and he should not have.

I love the people here trying to whitesplain this odious situation. Call it EVERYTHING but what it is. Murder. This Zimmerman person followed the child after being told NOT to engage by the POLICE, he was IN A CAR and with a GUN and he felt threatened? He has a history of assaulting police officers and getting away with it. This was murder plain outright. He didn’t listen to the police and decided to play vigilante. The young man was probably being “uppity” in Zimmerman’s eyes. No one made Zimmerman follow this young man and get OUT of his car. I feel HORRIBLY for this Trayvon’s family and regarding the situation, I have seen comments about it that makes me fearful of my little brother going out to the damn store. He is SO innocent, goes to church, is a computer whiz and likes to go to the park with our dog and teach her frisbee tricks. The thought of him being followed and gunned down and accused of phantom violence breaks my heart. Then you have people trying to justify this by saying Trayvon should have stopped, or been more respectful, or just sat down with his hands in the air and shouted “Yassuh massa” or whatever other whitesplaining of the situation they come up with. Why is it Zimmerman gets to DEFY police orders but it is young innocent Trayvon who is at fault?

I feel like I have been transported back to the South my mother and grandmother spoke of. People don’t seem to understand that civil rights was only so long ago. Slavery was NOT that long ago. There are people who see dark skin as a threat, even though historically, whites have been the terrorist towards dark skinned people. Funny…so very funny how that works. This saddens me. And makes me fear for my loved ones.

I can’t today. I just can’t. I can’t deal with people trying to twist reality into something they are more comfortable with just because they don’t want to or CAN’T deal with the ugly truth of racism in this country. I need to get out of the house. I’m going to Taco Tuesday. I can’t spend my Spring Break with a broken heart. Thank you and good day.

My thoughts and prayers are for the family of Trayvon Martin. This case saddens me to tears and feeling of despair that a man could shoot a kid in the chest, kill him, and not be charged. This case is being investigated further and for that I am grateful. I signed the petition.

Bliff, a few years ago, I was walking with two innocent people who did nothing at all, and after I saw what happened to them, I could never look back. I hope you never find yourself loving a brown or black person and having to learn that hard lesson.

What I don’t understand is that no one is bringing up the point that a grown 28-year-old MAN killed a 17-year-old CHILD. WITH A GUN no less. You can get into the specifics of what happened that night all you want, but that’s what mainly boiled down to. Since when is a 17 year old child the equivalent of a 28 year old man? Its like people seem to think that just because said child is BLACK, any action they perform or have performed on them will be under the guise as if they were an adult. Is a black 17yo the on par with a white 28yo now? Does that mean that a black 10 year old is the equivalent of a 21 year old white person?

The comments that I am reading are sad and straight up ignorant. I’m all for opinions but the fact that some “people” think what that police officer did was okay is b.s! This is a sick world we live in. It seems that black people have no place here on this earth, black man or woman. Smh.

@Bliff I guess I shouldve shot that white kid who tried to fight my son and used violence because I can.Also I guess since I shouldve ran over to his house and did it and say I was defending my son and the white boy was attacking my son.

An unarmed black male shot and killed? Who would have thought? This story makes me sick, sick, sick! When I first heard about it, I immediately thought of the NYPD. For those who are touting that we should not jump to conclusions, pa-leeze!!! When Zimmerman noticed Trayvon and called for help, he was told to LET THE POLICE HANDLE IT. So why would it even be necessary for Zimmerman to leave his home with a gun and confront the kid? Why fight a kid when you’re a grown friggin’ man with a gun, and he’s an adolescent carrying Skittles and iced tea? From the accounts I’ve seen, this kid was not some thug wannabe who aspired to be the best drug lord/car jacker/petty thief/rapist in Florida. He was a high school junior who enjoyed horseback riding, and who had dreams of becoming a pilot.

Many whites seem to want protection from black males who they assume are all armed and dangerous, when in fact it appears that black males are really the ones who need the protection.

In general I think that your rules encourage the culture of victim blame and place the responsibility of surviving an encounter with police/neighborhood watch/vigilante whites solely on the victim of racism and biased interrogation. It doesn’t work for women in situations of rape and sexual assault, it certainly won’t work for people who have no choice but to “walk while black.”

And based on a real experience, I’m pretty sure if the kid had a cellphone on his person Zimmerman would have claimed he thought it was a gun. All the more reason to shoot him.

And people are usually suspicious when there’s a group of black folks congregating. So it didn’t matter whether he walked by himself or with a group of people. Be thankful he didn’t take his little brother with him because he might have died that night, too.

But if you want do enlighten me regarding the thug and criminal wardrobe. There must be some gucci and prada sprinkled in there. While you’re at it you can tell me what a slut looks like, too.

Will Mr. Zimmerman be behind bars for killing an innocent, unarmed black male, Who Knows? The criminal justice system is so broken right now, no one can guess what’s gonna happen going forward. Again, this case is an example of the misdeeds of other black males causing the death of innocent black people, because whites and others are scared to death of criminal-minded black males. We can choose to ignore this reality if we want to, we can no longer sweep this issue under the rug. I was watching Nancy Grace a few weeks ago, and she brought attention to the case of two young sistas in Detroit who were allegedly kidnapped by the ex-boyfriend of one of the women because she refused to accept bribe money from him due to him attempting to shoot her and her homegirl at her residence. I’m reminded of the sista who was shot and killed in New York by unknown black males shooting from a rooftop. The sista went to pick up her kids from school and she never made it back home that night. Why i mentioned these tragedies? We should be just as outraged at those in our race who kill us just as much as we are at those who are not. The same bulls**t keeps repeating itself time and time again. Black males kill their own, no outrage from black folk. Others kill black males, we make a big fuss about it. Black males and other men kill blackwomen, not a peep…Silence! This is why i don’t sign petitions, because, it doesn’t accomplish anything. Blackmen need to stop killing their own people, first and foremost. Blackmen need to stop involving themselves in crime and violence. We are our greatest threat. Look at all the bloodshed in Africa? We’re killing innocent black people in the name of Islam, Why? Why do some blackmen hate black people so much? Until we deal with the black male question, Trayvon Martin and other innocent black people will have their lives cut short because of “Fear.”

Maybe someday in the future black people won’t be living in a racist society in the US but thats not right now.

Right now black people are getting killed for “looking suspicious” part of that comes down to dressing like a criminal.

Most of it comes down to being a minority.

Black people live in a hostile enviroment, pretending its all rainbows and butterflies probably isn’t the best choice of action.

If he had been in a group; he might have been stopped and interrogated but he wouldn’t have in all likelyhood been confronted by the white man and preferrably it would have been his father or another adult who went with him.

Its almost always better to be in a group, thats just a fact of life.

If he had been dressed in shorts and wearing one of those preppy sweaters tied around the shoulders things might have gone down differently.

The only blame is on the guy who shot him, these are simply tactics to help increase odds of surviving.

Whether the police told Zimmerman not to follow Martin is irrelevant. It’s a public street and Zimmerman has a right to be there. If Martin felt he was being harassed he could have filed a police report.

Most of the comments assume Martin threw the first punch. I suspect that’s true. However, Zimmerman may have grabbed his arm or otherwise tried to restrain him to prevent him from leaving. If so that’s assault and Martin was justified in defending himself. But I don’t make that assumption, either. There’s not enough information to know.

Who the aggressor was is irrelevant because neither scenario would justify shooting someone. Shooting someone is an unreasonable use of force against an unarmed man. I say man because I don’t think it really makes much difference whether it happened 2 weeks ago when he was 17 or in a few weeks when he would have been 18. To call him a child is just silly.

The only scenario I can see where Zimmerman’s claim of self-defense would be justified is if Martin saw Zimmerman’s holstered gun and they struggled over it. It’s possible but I find it doubtful. I suspect Zimmerman will end up being charged with manslaughter. I also suspect he’ll end up doing 7 to 15 years in prison.

Everything I’ve said is speculation because the report hasn’t been released yet. I’m willing to keep an open mind while the police investigate and the state’s attorney reviews the evidence. There is such a thing as due process. For people to automatically assume guilt before evidence has been presented is disgusting. But for people to take an incident for which little information has been made public, fabricate motives for a man who hasn’t even been tried and then ascribe those motives to all whites is obscene. Whatever Zimmerman did he did by himself.

People trying to use this incident to prove that “whites are racist” should remember that blacks committed 83% if the 520,000 violent inter-racial crimes involving blacks and whites nationwide. If this incident proves that “whites are racist” then what do those numbers say about blacks? People are individually responsible for their own actions. So let’s judge them individually.

All I can say is that this proves once again how much this society values or undervalues the lives of black people. No one can downplay this fact, nor can they excuse it.

I will also say that it’s pretty pathetic and deplorable how some people try to “whitesplain” this matter all in all trying to secretly make it seem like this child’s death was inevitable and justified. The usual message is that white men are always right no matter what and black men deserve to die because there’s no such thing as an innocent black male.

As always I wonder if they feel the same way if Martin was a white child killed by a white man. I’m more than sure they would be outraged as hell if it was a black man killing a white boy. The entire nation would definitely be in a huge uproar.

You tellin me that he should have just waited passively what this grown up white creep is up to? Like wait to see if this guy is a serial killer (most serial killers are white men) or somekind of child molester? Or just some red neck out there looking for a black kid to kill? And yet you tell us that every one has right to defend themselves? Does that not include black kids?

As a white man I am absolutely astonished by your excuses for this child killer. What kind of coward cheesepants creep shoots some kid for being punched on the nose by a light weight child? Only a complete poopy pants. Super hyper chicken. Total moron. Some one who has no abilities to defend himself at all. A total loser.

I have been hit on the head many times. Few times were in the ring with gloves on, but many times were on the street with out gloves. As a matter of fact I have been kicked in the head, on the face, and been hit on the head with a bench. Yes, a six foot long bench. Knocked me out cold that one. I was also hit on the head with a shivel once by my sister. Guess how many guys I have shot because of those “incidents”? Thats right: none. Zero.

Did I defend myself when I was hit on the nose? Yes. I hit back. Did I get beaten? Yes, sometimes. Did I beat up the the other guy? Yes, sometimes. Did I follow some thin kid with a gun in my pocket and shot him dead when he got scared of me following him around like a child molester on the prowl? No.

I understand that you are one of those pathetic white americans who think that guns make them safe and then wonder why so many criminals are armed and stay indoors scared to death of the Outsiders all the time, but even you have to realise that when a kid punches a grown man, if that man can not survive that situation without shooting the kid dead, he has to be a super loser.

I want to make myself absolutely clear: you do not shoot kids. Period. You do not kill children. Period. I don’t care how awful the kid is, how bad his behavior is, how rude the kid is: YOU DO NOT KILL CHILDREN:

And to me anyone making excuses for a child killing is a total creep himself.

Is there any wonder why black folks don’t trust the police let alone most whites? It’s bad enough that in the past up until today, black people have to walk to the other side of the streets whenever white people walk in the incoming direction so as to not scare the hell out of them, but after hearing to what happened to Trayvon Martin and the dozens of untold numbers of black males who were murdered by civilians and cops just for “looking suspicious” or being in the wrong place in the wrong time, it proves how little this society values our lives.

Yet, some white people will look at this incident and our reactions and tell us that while we have a right to be upset, we are making a mountain out of a molehill. It’s not as bad as it seems as this was just one incident. Zimmerman was just trying to protect himself, or worse, Trayvon was really up to no good. Anything to try not to observe the seriousness of this nation’s pathology against black men. All they’re trying to say in their own white-coded language that the lives of young black men are worthless while telling us we have no reason to be upset because – again – our lives have little or no value. Therefore, our pain, outrage and suffering doesn’t matter. The pain the family is going through doesn’t matter. But the dilemma of George Zimmerman, the murderer, does matter?

We continue to have to survive in an world that says we have no right to live. Trayvon Martin is a point in a long list of reasons why we must be on our guard wherever we go. The reminder that we are black men in a white male supremacist society will show itself in different forms, and some of those forms are lethal.

1. Most American whites, ( of course they deny this), still feel that black people are not fully human.
2. Most are happy to see us wiped off the face of the earth.
3. Most would shoot us but are afraid of the legalities that MIGHT follow.
4. Most believe that since we are perceived as bad, they MUST be good and therefore killing us is justified.

@mohammedalgore,
If you would read what was posted, Zimmerman had an expunged criminal record, for assaulting the police. The victim, a child who weighed 100lbs less than the accused killer, was merely walking in the rain with his hood on to cover his head from the rain to buy candy and soda.

I’m loving some of this cold, soulless bs that’s being spouted off here. I hope some random power tripping, tunnel visioned idiot doesn’t follow any of your loved ones and they get shot because they had the nerve to get pissed at this person accosting them.

“Whether the police told Zimmerman not to follow Martin is irrelevant. It’s a public street and Zimmerman has a right to be there. If Martin felt he was being harassed he could have filed a police report.”

“There is such a thing as due process. For people to automatically assume guilt before evidence has been presented is disgusting.”
—

From news report videos, Zimmerman and Trayvon were not on a public street , but near a private walkway between buildings within a gated community of townhomes. Of course, if Zimmerman lived there he had every right to be on the property. Trayvon did, too, because he was a resident’s guest. If you think someone is a threat and you have called 911, why leave your vehicle or home and confront the perceived threat If the perceived threat is not trying to harm you directly or steal your property? Why put yourself out there like that (with a gun) when you don’t have to?

As for Martin filing a police report, pretty hard to do when you’ve been fatally shot. And as for the assumption of guilt before evidence is presented, people also assume being black and male automatically makes one a dangerous criminal. Is THAT fair? There are too many instances of unarmed black males, often with no criminal record, being shot by the police or vigilantes. It happens way too often to be coincidence. I don’t remember hearing stories of unarmed white males being shot by police. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, but when it does, it’s not nearly with the same frequency. . .

“You tellin me that he should have just waited passively what this grown up white creep is up to?”

Thank you, Sam, for this statement. Zimmerman could have been a child molester trying to abduct him for all Trayvon knew…who approaches a child walking by himself in a Gated-community that is supposed to be safe…

his father was paying homeowner fees for a reason, so that his child could walk around unmolested and SAFE.

This 17 year old CHILD had a right to be frightened when he was approached by an unknown MAN….Zimmmerman is a MAN and Trayvon was a CHILD trying to go home.

This child-murderer should be in jail…no excuses…Trayvon looks like a child, no one sees a grown man when you see this child’s face.

The police arrested Dharun Ravi for invading the privacy of the gay boy who killed himself….so how does anyone/police justify not immediately arresting someone who admitted to killing a CHILD.

The only scenario I can see where Zimmerman’s claim of self-defense would be justified is if Martin saw Zimmerman’s holstered gun and they struggled over it.

I would agree if the shooting occurred in my home state, California, but possibly not in Florida. There was a Florida law passed in 2005 that is colloquially called the “Stand your ground law” You would be surprised at the incidents that have not been prosecuted because of the aforementioned law:

“The “stand your ground” law – called the “shoot first” law by opponents – passed the Florida legislature by a wide margin. Since it went into effect, similar laws have been passed in at least 14 other states and are being considered in many more.

The law allows someone attacked, even in a public place, to “stand his or her ground” – and to use deadly force if he or she feels it necessary. It revokes a legal requirement to try to avoid conflict. Thus the case of the West Palm Beach cab driver who shot and killed a drunken passenger in an altercation after dropping him off.

In the eminently reasonable words of the foreman of the deadlocked jury, the cab driver “had a lot of chances to retreat and to avoid an escalation. He could have just gotten in his cab and left. The thing could have been avoided, and a man’s life would have been saved”.

@Truthbetold
I agree with you when you said that it is the ’60s all over again. I agree 100% There is so much crap and drama going on these days! It is like the ’60s with vengue. So much racial divide in this country. The 2008 election showed me how racially divided America ison it’s racial terms.
As a Black girl of 16, I am very saddened by Trayvon Martin’s death. He died just because a racist White man,Mr. Zimmerman shot him ”out of self defense”. I bet he isn’t even sorry at all! And I heard a post Trayvon’s mother’s wrote too. So sad and his relaties and strangers commented but I wanted to comment but I couldn’t. Anyways race is a major part in this case. Ironically I read a book about a White man murding a young boy like Trayvon but the boy in this story was Asian not Black. The White man in the book wasn’t 28 but he was about 60. I think that book I read is a lot like this case. So very sad.
Of course, Mr. Zimmerman shot him because he is Black. Black men are supposedly dangerous men in the minds of a lot but not if in most White Americans’ minds.To Mr. Zimmerman, this is a Black person nothing more noting less. If this guy were a White guy, the White community would be in uproar and this would be all over the news. I know all of this and I am 16. Hahaa I guess I am really smart.
@Nom De Plum
Many whites seem to want protection from black males who they assume are all armed and dangerous, when in fact it appears that black males are really the ones who need the protection.
You are so right. Black men are the ones who need protection from the court and ”justice” system that does injustice to them. So do Latino men as well and I am not a Latina but I point that out because Latinos go through a lot as well. And I have a Black little brother at home so I know what you are talking about.
@Kandi Kane
This case really hit home because of my little brother, Greg. He is 13 and a Black boy in America. I want to tell him about this case but I don’t know if he would listen. He thinks Whites are all good and gets mad at me and my mother for pointing out their bad characterisitics even if they are true. Like for Jennifer Aniston, she is not a beautiful woman at all. He thinks she is so beautiful because that is that the White media wants people to think so. Anyways, I don;t want my little brother harmed by anyone especially if that person is a White male! I definitely don’t trust them with my little brother! I don’t want him laying on the ground dead like poor Trayvon Martin is right now.
Anyways we live in a racist country and environment and we can’t change that. I am thinking of moving out of this country too. Not to escape racism but to live a better life.

It’s amazing that in nearly all cases like, the black man has committed some violence or defiance, and he and the black community want to shout “racism” but just never seem to mention the black man’s part in aggravating the situation.

This Zimmerman ‘aggravated’ the situation. Since the other witness was shot dead, the police took Zimmerman’s word as to what happened. Zimmerman is at fault which ever way you look at it. Initially, when Zimmerman called the police, he was instructed to stay in the car until they arrived. Instead this yahoo got out lest this ‘suspicious’ person ‘got away as they always do’. This doesn’t wash with me. Now I don’t know about you but if a strange person was following me and got out of his car, I would be afraid. At no time was Zimmerman in immediate danger of serious physical damage or imminent death, that is the gist of this scenario. That is the litmus test. As for not fighting or being defiant, what would you or anyone else would have done in this case! An apparent weirdo is following you, you do not know why(Trayvon has probably been to his father’s home before so would have been known in the neighbourhood), and he gets out of his car and confronts you. This yo yo Zimmerman had at least 100 pounds on Trayvon. I would have been scared and would have tried to extricate myself from the situation however I could. So much for defiance as opposed to being frightened at having some weirdo approach you.

Let’s flip the script. What if it was Trayvon who called the police, got out of his car and got into a scuffle and ended up killing the suspicious Zimmerman? Despite pleading self-defence, he would have been in a jail cell looking at in the very least a manslaughter charge.

Trayvon did fight, and he should not have.

Unless this Zimmerman identified himself as a cop, what was he supposed to do not knowing why this man was following him and then confronting him? Again, Zimmerman shot Trayvon dead. There is no justification or excuses for this.

“I don’t remember hearing stories of unarmed white males being shot by police. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, but when it does, it’s not nearly with the same frequency. . .”

************************

– Nom De Plume

Imagine the outcry, calls for justice (lynch mobs and rioting) we’d hear from the white collective in America if armed black/brown law officers/officials were to begin to routinely shoot and kill unarmed white people – because they perceived that their lives were in danger from some threatening looking/gesturing, insolent white people.

I also love that whenever this happens you hear the white herd bleeting:

“Maybe the boy did something wrong.”
“He looked menacing so perhaps it was self defense.”
“He should’ve listened.”
“He had no right to be there.”
And my personal favorite, “The police we’re just doing their job.”

If you think someone is a threat and you have called 911, why leave your vehicle or home and confront the perceived threat If the perceived threat is not trying to harm you directly or steal your property?

I don’t think he should have.

As for Martin filing a police report, pretty hard to do when you’ve been fatally shot.

Obviously. My point is that Martin should have filed a report against Zimmerman rather than punching him.

And as for the assumption of guilt before evidence is presented, people also assume being black and male automatically makes one a dangerous criminal. Is THAT fair?

You act like I’m arguing for a double standard. I’m not.

There are too many instances of unarmed black males, often with no criminal record, being shot by the police or vigilantes. It happens way too often to be coincidence.

Actually, black officers shoot suspects at a higher rate than white officers do. But I agree that it’s no coincidence. Law enforcement attracts the wrong kind of people. Then they get a gun and a badge and too much power. And it goes to their head.

I don’t remember hearing stories of unarmed white males being shot by police. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, but when it does, it’s not nearly with the same frequency. . .

It happens all the time. You just don’t hear about it because they don’t talk about it on the black oriented websites you visit. This one happened just 3 weeks ago. A police officer shoots an unarmed grandfather holding his 9 month old grandbaby in front of his own home. It was the officer’s 8th shooting and 7th killing in 10 years. I don’t know about you but that sounds like a trigger happy cop to me. But the police investigators keep saying its justified.

@ those who are making excuses for the murder of Trayvon Martin: you should have your heads down in shame. This is not point of debate. This is a young man’s life cut short tragically by someone’s hate.

If anything this should be a reminder of the terrible power of racism. Don’t let it own you too.

Black people are so quick to jump the gun whenever there is an incident like this involving a young black male. There are two sides to every story. I don’t believe that “white” man (he doesn’t even look white to me but i digress) killed this boy for just being black while walking in a gated community minding his own business. I see young white males getting harassed and picked on too by police, neighborhood watch groups, etc all the time so why are black folk so quick to scream racism when young black males are scrutinized.

My understanding of the events are as limited as anyone’s at this point. My understanding is that Trayvon noticed Zimmerman following him in his car. At some point, Trayvon shouted “Whar’s your problem” and Zimmerman got out of his car. I don’t know the sequence. Then they confronted each other, in some sequence. It appears that Trayvon then punched Zimmerman. It anything else was going on then – shouting, pushing, grabbing, posturing, I don’t know. Sometime after the punch, Zimmerman shot Trayvon.

At this point, it seems Trayvon provided the major escalation in the confrontation that led to the shooting. With this understanding, I stated that Trayvon was wrong to punch Zimmerman. It is not known if Zimmerman started the physical contact first.

“People have the right to defend themselves. Whether or not this was the appropriate situation is up to the police and courts.” This refers to the legal aspect of the case. The courts don’t care about my opinion, which is stated below.

&

“I have NOT justified the shooting.” This is my opinion. My opinion differs from what the courts may decide. This is different from the statement above.

I mourn the loss of every innocent life, regardless of his race. It should be known, however, that for every black killed by whites, there are many more whites killed by blacks.

I’m sure you’ve heard this before. It would be nice if could just focus on “Guilty” or “innocent” and leave it at that – but your post points out that the killer was white and the victim black. You claim that racism was at work here. It might have been, but the same could be said about the countless black on white murders and rapes.

I’d be happy to publish a post, on my own blog, about innocent blacks being killed by whites if you post one about innocent whites being killed by blacks.

I think this sort of cross-posting would be a good way to bridge the enmity that exists between the pro-white community and the pro-black community in the the blogosphere. Perhaps you have already posted about such killings, or the flash mobs that target non-blacks or the grossly lopsided rape statistics. If so, then please show me the post(s) and I’ll reciprocate.

1. Most American whites, ( of course they deny this), still feel that black people are not fully human.
2. Most are happy to see us wiped off the face of the earth.
3. Most would shoot us but are afraid of the legalities that MIGHT follow.
4. Most believe that since we are perceived as bad, they MUST be good and therefore killing us is justified.

Even for you, this is pathetic, absolute trash. This hyperbole does nothing but aggravates bad feelings between the races. This overgeneralized crap is just that and you should learn to make more precise statements.

Bliff, please stop trying to put perfume on this s”it and make it smell good…I live in Florida, so your understanding is wayyy off. It’s not about a white MAN being confronted by black Teenager…this Child/Teen was confronted by an Adult who proceeded to harrass him.

This Teen was approached by a stranger at night in the community that this teens father pays to live in. As an adult, Zimmerman had NO right to approach and DETAIN someone elses child. That’s why we parents teach our children about “stranger danger”, children have the right to try to walk home unmolested by Adults that are not Authority figures.

You are assuming you know for sure what the sequence of events is. I think your assumptions are guided more by your racial leanings, than by the known facts. You might want to wait before the facts are defined.

I’m hearing a lot of excuses, too. Some people are looking for an excuse to say its self-defense. And others are looking for an excuse to blame the actions of one guy on a whole race. And it’s making me sick, too.

“This Teen was approached by a stranger at night in the community that this teens father pays to live in. As an adult, Zimmerman had NO right to approach and DETAIN someone elses child.”

I don’t buy the “innocent black teen” argument. I saw that boy’s facebook page and he was your typical wannabe thug, also there are more reports coming in stating that this kid had behavioral issues which is why his mother sent him to his father in the first place. A lot of facts about this incident are surfacing (the liberal media withheld these important details for obvious reasons).

I mourn the loss of every innocent life, regardless of his race. It should be known, however, that for every black killed by whites, there are many more whites killed by blacks.

And I suppose you’re going to use the old Bureau of Justice Statistics routine we see all the time from whites who want to cite that whites are being victimized by blacks more often than the other way around?

I’m sure you’ve heard this before. It would be nice if could just focus on “Guilty” or “innocent” and leave it at that – but your post points out that the killer was white and the victim black. You claim that racism was at work here. It might have been, but the same could be said about the countless black on white murders and rapes.

Yes. We’ve heard it before millions of times. You guys never seem to let up on that myth. You seem to be against it, but it’s stuck in your head like a bad song. And in case you can’t read, this post WAS focused on the guilty and innocent. But hey! Like Dr. Amos Wilson once said, you think black men are cosmically guilty, right?

I’d be happy to publish a post, on my own blog, about innocent blacks being killed by whites if you post one about innocent whites being killed by blacks.

As long as white people matter that’s all that matters, eh? Somehow I have a feeling that you either won’t publish a post on white-on-black violence or you would try to justify white-on-black violence. You ain’t foolin’ nobody.

I think this sort of cross-posting would be a good way to bridge the enmity that exists between the pro-white community and the pro-black community in the the blogosphere. Perhaps you have already posted about such killings, or the flash mobs that target non-blacks or the grossly lopsided rape statistics. If so, then please show me the post(s) and I’ll reciprocate.

Oh, hush. You know damn well it will not change your racist views on blacks one bit. You’re just blowing sh*t outta your ass with this last comment.

Bottom line: No matter what your views will not change no matter what anyone ways. So why even attempt to amuse your ulcer-ridden ego?

I’m hearing a lot of excuses, too. Some people are looking for an excuse to say its self-defense. And others are looking for an excuse to blame the actions of one guy on a whole race. And it’s making me sick, too.

But it’s okay if white people (assuming you are white) blame the whole black race on one or a few incidents? Oh! And it’s reasonable to assume that those few are actually most of the black population?

I don’t believe that “white” man (he doesn’t even look white to me but i digress) killed this boy for just being black while walking in a gated community minding his own business. I see young white males getting harassed and picked on too by police, neighborhood watch groups, etc all the time so why are black folk so quick to scream racism when young black males are scrutinized.

Why are you giving cover to George Zimmerman? Why are you attempting to marginalize Zimmerman’s actions while suggesting his motives were anything but racially motivated?

You’re even attempting to quietly move Zimmerman out of the “white” category so you can, in a way, “rob those negros of their ammunition” when it comes to arguing the racial aspect of this case.

Bliff….no. You’re gonna get banned from this place at some point. Addressing you would be a waste of time.

Race was, is, and always will be the 600lb elephant in the room when cases like these happen. And anyone who denies it is delusional or lying.

I don’t buy the “innocent black teen” argument. I saw that boy’s facebook page and he was your typical wannabe thug, also there are more reports coming in stating that this kid had behavioral issues which is why his mother sent him to his father in the first place. A lot of facts about this incident are surfacing (the liberal media withheld these important details for obvious reasons).

So, just because he looks like a thug to you that means he must be one? And where are these reports you mentioned about his behavioral issues, or are you just making it up to somehow try to justify his killing?

Oh, and we are familiar with the last statement very well. It’s always the liberal media at work here and never racism and white supremacy.

Sometimes I wonder how you trolls stand to look at yourselves in the mirror after typing such hatred, but then again, vampires don’t cast reflections.

People pointed out earlier that Trayvon punched this Zimmerman, but when Trayvon asked him `What’s your problem?’ Zimmerman could have also rolled up the window and stayed in the car. He could have driven away, waited at the end of the street. If he was a quick-thinker, he could have made up a story, said he was lost and wondered if Trayvon knew where the nearest X was… Yet Zimmerman chose to get out the car and engage Trayvon. Apparently Zimmerman has already used aggressive tactics before, so I wouldn’t be surprised if Trayvon’s punch was a reaction. If a man is going to get out of his car when somebody asks `What’s your problem?’ he’s not getting out to just stand there and most people wouldn’t punch him in the face for doing that. When you notice somebody bigger than you is following you, you’re most likely nervous and not eager to start a fight.

People pointed out earlier that Trayvon punched this Zimmerman
At this the public has no idea who initiated the first physical contact.but when Trayvon asked him `What’s your problem?’
This information came from the shooter himself and not from any witnesses. Trayvon may have said that.. or he may said nothing.. or even that he was walking back to his father’s house.

People are really trying to justify the death of this young man by saying “Oh but what about the countless whites raped and killed by blacks?!” Seriously? They’re seriously using disproven, slanted statistics to justify a murder? You honestly think Black people WANT to be victimized? That they want to have their children unable to walk around in a nice neighborhood without possibly being murdered?

This was not a THUG. This was a human being with potential and a decent personality. And by the way, recognizing that fact does not make someone “biased”. Good god.

People are just so selfish. This boy was murdered for being the wrong color in the wrong neighborhood according to some unstable white guy who couldn’t get over himself and leave that child alone. He made no real effort to know that the boy was visiting a family member who lived in that suburb. He just decided the boy was “suspicious”. The fact that that murderer was not thrown in jail and denied all benefit of the doubt is the real injustice. Making up “facts” doesn’t make it right. There’s nothing else to it. No “hidden liberal agenda”. No one should ever justify violence against children and you don’t blame a victim. A person’s skin color doesn’t decide whether or not they should be killed or harassed.

“It should be known, however, that for every black killed by whites, there are many more whites killed by blacks.”

Get real. Or some facts.

Personally I do not give a toot if mr Zimmerman was from Mars and was green, or if he was unicorn or what ever. He was a grow up man with a gun. He followed a kid in his car and went after the kid. If this kid actually asked “Whats your problem?”, no matter how rudely, even a very rude grown up doing his “neighbourhood watch duties” (what ever the fK they are) could have asked: Do you live here? Is this your neighbourhood? Something.

Did he? No. He got out of the car, walked to the kid with a gun, and then something happened. According this brave white grown up with a gun, the kid attacked him! Hit him on the nose. Bezeesus!! Put your self into the kids shoes!!!

Its dark, it raining, total stranger comes up in a car, comes out with a gun, walks towards you and you, according some white commentators here, should behave nicely towards this unknown grown up with a gun in his hand?

Did this kid dress like a “thug”? I have no idea. I know that rap fashion is a rage among white kids too. I know that my kid used to dress up like witch every eastern sunday as a custom but nobody wanted to burn her at stake.

And really, the way you dress is a valid reason to get shot in USA? Like, if I think mr Zimmermans clothes make him look like a goon, I can shoot the guy just because of it? So basically I can shoot any one whose clothes offend me?

This is a very simple case, no matter what. A grown man shot a child dead. Period. That child did not shoot the grown up. He did not have a knife, or an axe or sword. All he did, if we are to belive mr Zimmerman whose own interest make him a pretty suspicious witness (as he could be face death penalty here IF the laws would be same for everyone, which they are not), the child acted out and was rude. Lo behold, that child even punched grown up man on the nose!!! And this gives you the right to shoot a child dead?

Go ahead, excusers, ask from any day care center have the teachers there been hit on the nose by any kid? And then think if those day care center workers would shoot every kid that behaves rudely and punches them on the nose. That is what happened here.

If mr Zimmerman was black and this child white, mr Zimmerman would on the express to the hot chair right now, on the courtesy of the Florida state. Don’t say it had nothing to do with race. Of course it did. And most of all: A GROWN UP MAN KILLED A CHILD.

“In nearly every situation ending up like this, especially in situations with the police, an important element in the chain of events leading up to the tragedy, the black man has committed some form of violence or defiance. This happened here where Trayvon punched Zimmerman, resulting in a fight. I’m not saying this one element in the chain of events is solely responsible for the outcome, but it is a critical element. And one that black men need to take responsbility. It cannot be ignored, like it appears to be in this thread.”

Not sure where you are getting that from. Going by my own knowledge of these sort of events – and the thing that makes the most sense here too given the police reaction and based on what we know so far – is that Zimmerman thought Trayvon had a gun and said as much to the police.

Speaking for myself I am way more afraid of the police than black men. And that is pretty sad when you think about it. With black men I pretty much know who to avoid and who not to cross in what ways and what to do if I am challenged by some hothead and so on. So there I am pretty safe. I might get robbed but it is very unlikely I will get killed. I have lived in some pretty violent parts of New York but at least the violence was rational, as crazy as that sounds.

With the police it is not like that. They seem to regard me as a dangerous person. At first I thought it was kind of funny but now it is just frightening and dangerous. The police have all the power and I have none. They have guns. They can get away with murder. They do not always act rationally. Their stopping me repeatedly shows it.

Which is what puts cases like Ramarley Graham, Oscar Grant, Sean Bell (which took place near where I used to live) and so on in a completely different class than the “black men kill people too” thing.

And in the case of Trayvon Martin I have a son just a year younger than him. I send him to the store all the time. I should not have to fear for him like that. That is completely and utterly nuts. It is SICKENING that there are people here who are defending a world like that.

“I’m sure you’ve heard this before. It would be nice if could just focus on “Guilty” or “innocent” and leave it at that – but your post points out that the killer was white and the victim black. You claim that racism was at work here.”

Call me crazy but if an armed, 240lb black man killed a white high school kid armed only with Skittles, something tells me the police would not let him go free.

“It should be known, however, that for every black killed by whites, there are many more whites killed by blacks.”

Not sure where you are getting that from.

This is how I think of it:

1. There were 27.3 million blacks killed by the slave trade and by purposely working slaves to death. There has been no comparable event in history where blacks killed even a million whites. So whites have killed at least 26.3 million more blacks than the other way round.

4. Just to keep the math simple, assume the number of murders has been constant back to 1865 and that the rest of the Diaspora is more or less the same, give or take. Black Americans make up a fourth of the Diaspora. So that is 245 x 4 = 980.

5. That means it would take blacks 26,300,000 / 980 or 26,837 years to catch up.

6. 26837 + 1865 = AD 28702

7. Come back in 28,702 and then you can inform us that blacks have killed more whites than the other way round.

Rape is probably pretty much the same way – a huge historical overhang compared to current rates of street crime.

“But it’s okay if white people (assuming you are white) blame the whole black race on one or a few incidents? Oh! And it’s reasonable to assume that those few are actually most of the black population?”

When have I said that? You’re fabricating imaginary statements and then attributing to me in order smear me. You have a problem.

===============================

@Ace

People are really trying to justify the death of this young man by saying “Oh but what about the countless whites raped and killed by blacks?!” Seriously? They’re seriously using disproven, slanted statistics to justify a murder?

I don’t think whites on this thread are using crimes committed by blacks to justify crimes committed by whites. My objection is to people trying to use incidents like this one to “prove” that “whites are racist” while ignoring the crimes committed by blacks. I believe people are individually responsible for their own actions.

==========================

@abagond

With the police it is not like that. They seem to regard me as a dangerous person. At first I thought it was kind of funny but now it is just frightening and dangerous. The police have all the power and I have none. They have guns. They can get away with murder. They do not always act rationally. Their stopping me repeatedly shows it.

I agree. I’m scared of the police, too. They’re not all bad. Probably most of them aren’t. But I don’t know which ones are. So when they’re around I keep my mouth shut and my hands where they can see them. It may be wrong that I should have to do that but it’s still safer.

Not sure where you are getting that from.

This is how I think of it:

I disagree with your numbers. And I disagree with the point you’re trying to make. But I don’t want to be moderated for taking this thread too far off-topic.

I find it odd how some commenters seem to expect a 17-year-old boy to exercise more judgement than a 28-year-old man. Since when did that become like a rule?

Since doing so allows aggressors like Zimmerman to escape blame while pinning it on the victim. As long as these people can characterize a 17-year-old kid as a hardened gangbanger thug while letting a trigger-happy sociopath off the hook because doing so adheres to their own biases…

It’s very interesting to note that a lot of the commenters who DO NOT SEE A PROBLEM with these killings actually also call the the dead Afghans “ni66ers”.

So, let’s do abroad what we do at home?

They’re not fresh-faced, innocent kids who look like THEM or ordinary American men and women who look, think or act like THEM. So of course they wouldn’t care. It’s the othering effect in action for all to see.

I wonder when middle White America will begin identifying themselves as prototypically, xenophobic self-excusing hate-mongerers. It would almost seem like the sooner that this happens the less likely innocents like Trayvon will be murdered.

No you don’t. If you believed in personal responsibility you would condemn the actions of that murderer, not defend them with excuses. You would also not complain about people here ignoring “black crimes” because this is a story about a single murder, not a crime statistic. And finally, if you truly believed in any sort of individual responsibility you wouldn’t subscribe to views that condemn or categorize entire groups of people.

Dedication to that “individual responsibility” seems to go out the window the minute the blatant actions of a white bigot come into question. However, black people can’t sneeze wrong without one of you guys there to say, “Ooh see you do it too so it’s okay that we say horrible things about you and applaud men who stalk your children!”

That kid did not harass that man. That man repeatedly followed that kid, called him into the police, and saw him as a threat purely due to his having the wrong skin color in a nice neighborhood. No one had to inject a racist interpretation. It was already there. What scares me to death is that people like you think that’s okay.

I understand due process and all that, but I find it strange that some commenters here are showing more compassion toward an armed adult rather than an unarmed teen.

Something seems to be at work here in the comments. White privilege. One of the perks of white privilege is being given benefit of the doubt. Black people, and black men/teens in particular, don’t often have that luxury. Many whites will automatically assume blacks are the wrong-doers. Whites are usually seen as the ones who mean well. As someone mentioned upthread, had this been a snack-carrying white teen shot by an armed neighborhood watch black man, many whites would be just as outraged – if not more. The sad thing is, even if Zimmerman had not exited his car, Trayvon may have been in just as much danger from the police.

The “Stand you ground” law in Florida appears to be highly problematic. At least from little I have gleaned from online sources it would appear that George Zimmerman would likely be charged with Voluntary Manslaughter in California for the death of Trayvon Martin, however it is possible in Florida, as the law is structured, he could walk.

No you don’t. If you believed in personal responsibility you would condemn the actions of that murderer, not defend them with excuses.

You’re not psychic so you don’t know what I believe. All you have to go on is the comments I’ve typed. I simply analyzed the major points in the story and called for due process. If you were accused of a crime wouldn’t you want due process?

By the way, you apparently missed the part where I though he would be charged with manslaughter and sentenced to 7-15 years. What part of that do you object to? Your just angry I’m not demanding he be sentenced without a trial.

And finally, if you truly believed in any sort of individual responsibility you wouldn’t subscribe to views that condemn or categorize entire groups of people.

I don’t subscribe to views that “condemn or categorize entire groups of people”. You do. That’s what I’m arguing against.

I saw the “stand your ground” law mentioned in the news article Linda linked. I didn’t know about that because Florida’s laws are different from my state’s. Apparently, it’s legal to use deadly force to defend yourself against an unarmed assailant in Florida. I have mixed feelings about that. I personally think this incident pushes the boundaries of self-defense because Zimmerman contributed to the situation by following and harassing Martin. I don’t think one should be able to provoke someone else and then claim self-defense.

I find it strange that some commenters here are showing more compassion toward an armed adult rather than an unarmed teen.

Emotion has no business in the justice system. A jury should perform a sober and dispassionate review of the evidence.

Something seems to be at work here in the comments. White privilege. One of the perks of white privilege is being given benefit of the doubt. Black people, and black men/teens in particular, don’t often have that luxury. Many whites will automatically assume blacks are the wrong-doers.

That’s not “white privilege”. The law presumes everyone is innocent until proven guilty. The only opinions that matter are those of state’s attorney who decides whether to bring the case and the jury who decides the outcome of the trial. It’s hard to find a jury without at least one black so what whites “automatically think” is irrelevant.

That means it would take blacks 26,300,000 / 980 or 26,837 years to catch up.

What is this – the new Black Math? You need to realize we live in the present, not the past. The blacks who suffered in slave times are long gone; the whites who mistreated them are long gone. You were never a slave; I was never a slave owner. What counts today are present crime rates. Were you suggesting we had to wait 26,837 years before we could start criticizing current high black crime rates?

Sure whites can talk about the black crime rate, but don’t act like your shit don’t stink, like whites did not get to where they are without mind-numbing levels of violence – way beyond anything blacks have done or are doing. And do not act as if such levels of violence against people of colour in the past has no effect on its acceptance today, as shown on this very thread. This stuff did not drop out of the sky yesterday.

I needed a rest from this to clear my head.
I think the reason why this post got under my skin is because I, as a black woman (who is all of 135lbs) have been followed, pulled over, questioned and stared at in my own neighborhood when I was living in NY.

What most white commenters fail to realize is when you’re black and especially male, you have no power, no rights in this country. The police have all the power to do pretty much whatever they wish and it magically disappears under the wall of silence.

I remember when David Dinkins was mayor, whites were pissed and doubtful that a black man could lead NY city. I remember walking to Dunkin Donuts and being followed by white cops just after Dinkins was elected.

I was younger then but the fear rose that these cops could do basically anything they wanted, say anything they wanted, shoot me for looking suspicious if they wanted…and not one thing would come of it.

We blacks, ALL OF US, have had at least one story like this.
And if you have little black boys at home, sons, brothers, nephews, etc, there is that paranoid fear that they’ll leave the house and never come back.

I don’t know about anything anymore. I want to claim that the war has begun but I know deep down that it’s been raging since we were brought here against our will.

This is apart of the collective white fear, you know. That one day, all of us will seek revenge on a magnificent scale and tear them asunder. That’s why they strike first. To eradicate us before we destroy them.

The system works as well as it can, given there is not an infinite amount of resources available to the justice system, and the fact that the system is run by failable human beings. That’s not to say we shouldn’t be continuously trying to improve it.

I have no doubt that the overwhelming number of people in prison today deserve to be there.

There is a disproportionate number of blacks in prison because blacks commit a disproportionate number of crimes. Racism’s contribution to this is small. Blacks are less intelligent, more impulsive, and have less ability to plan for the future. Therefore, they have a harder time living in a white-based society and wind up in prison. Many black men have a hard time complying with police officiers’ commands, ending up fighting them, and then getting arrested. Then the police are sent to sensitivity training.

There are plenty of white criminals. However, we don’t champion them; we just send them to prison. When Casey Anthony got off, nearly all whites were enraged at the miscarriage of justice. We didn’t celebrate the fact she got off because she was white. There is no white equivalent to OJ Simpson, Mumia Jamal, and Troy Anthony Davis. We send our criminals to jail, without whining about it.

don’t act like your s**t don’t stink. We don’t. We don’t say there is no white crime. We just send our criminals to jail. We don’t whine about it.

like whites did not get to where they are without mind-numbing levels of violence. No, this is wrong, we did not get to where we are today with violence. After the Civil War, whites built this country up with their own talents and abilities. Blacks contributed, also, but in far less amounts in relation to their numbers. There was white-on-black violence, but it had nothing to do with building the country, or whites’ status in the USA. We did not get ahead by taking anything from the Blacks. There is little to take from the Blacks.

levels of violence against people of colour in the past has no effect on its acceptance today . There is much less violence against blacks by whites today than in the past. Blacks commit more violence against whites than vice versa. There has been great changes in whites’ attitudes towards blacks since the 60s. Most whites are far more liberal and favorable in their attitudes towards blacks than I am. I am really in the minority.

And that such acceptance of violence in the past against people of colour has no effect on this very thread.

How common would you guess that this perspective is among black Americans?

Because either the commenters in this thread are prescient, with access to information about the shooting that nobody else has, or else they’re racially biased (and blind to it), and the mere fact of a white shooter and a black decedent is sufficient to proclaim guilt.

If the perspective you mention is common, then the future of race relations appears dim.

Sure whites can talk about the black crime rate, but don’t act like your shit don’t stink, like whites did not get to where they are without mind-numbing levels of violence

I don’t think anyone is saying their “shit don’t stink”. Everyone’s shit stinks including yours. But “mind-numbing levels of violence” isn’t the reason whites got where they are today. If it were then the “mind-numbing levels of violence” would make the Congo a paradise. The reason for white prosperity is very simple — the emergence of middle class property rights.

And do not act as if such levels of violence against people of colour in the past has no effect on its acceptance today, as shown on this very thread.

I think the effect of past violence is that some people use it as an excuse to justify violence against others today. But I don’t think it’s the real reason for violence today. Even if there had been no violence in the past someone would just come up with another excuse.

Looking at long term crime stats, prior to the 70’s, America’s prisons were approximately filled with 70% white people. But somehow, miraculously, in the last 30-40 years the white crime rate did an about face, and blacks suddenly decided to show their true violent or criminal natures (as the trolls that are now infesting this site would like us all to believe).

Race realists or whatever new names they call themselves are nothing but neo-KKK scared and afraid white folks who couldn’t see/admit the truth even if it was written on their faces. That’s why they’re here with their outrageous BS.

and the mere fact of a white shooter and a black decedent is sufficient to proclaim guilt
@Randy,
it is not the “mere fact” as you so cavalierly put it, it is that a child who did not do anything other than walk to the store in the rain with his hood on to protect himself from the rain to buy candy and soda, who weighed 100lbs less than the person who killed him, who had no weapon, who did nothing wrong, was killed, and the person who killed him, who has a previous record of violence, who has a previous record of complaints from other neighbors, was not even charged in this case. These high rate of this type of horrible incidents and the fear in the hearts of mothers and fathers of black boys because of that high rate should make you also outraged at the injustice, but instead you are overlooking the known facts and defending the system, and that is not only sad, it also angers me that you seem so dense and LACK EMPATHY for this child, his family, and his community.

“Emotion has no business in the justice system. A jury should perform a sober and dispassionate review of the evidence.”
—

I wasn’t referring to the justice system and its jurors. I was referring to comments made here, as I stated upthread. BTW, juries are comprised of biased and imperfect human beings. It would be naive to believe that all jurors review evidence dispassionately and soberly on every case.

@destructure:

“That’s not “white privilege”. The law presumes everyone is innocent until proven guilty.”
—

Yes, the law does but people with anti-black racial biases often do not. I often chuckle to myself whenever I see images of a blindfolded Lady Justice holding the scale.

@destructure:

“It’s hard to find a jury without at least one black so what whites “automatically think” is irrelevant.”
—

Having a token black on the jury hardly ensures a fair verdict. Come on, now.

Looking at long term crime stats, prior to the 70′s, America’s prisons were approximately filled with 70% white people. But somehow, miraculously, in the last 30-40 years the white crime rate did an about face, and blacks suddenly decided to show their true violent or criminal natures

If the prisons were filled with 70% white people prior to the 70’s then whites still had a lower crime rate because the US was 90% white. So the proportions still haven’t changed that much. I would say that what has made the most impact is the emergence of the welfare state, illegitimacy and the drug war.

The welfare state means lower class women can support illegitimate children without a husband. Children without fathers have higher crime rates. And the drug war has increased the price of drugs the way prohibition did to alcohol. These fatherless children were then sucked into gangs supplying the drug trade.

“There is a disproportionate number of blacks in prison because blacks commit a disproportionate number of crimes. Racism’s contribution to this is small. Blacks are less intelligent, more impulsive, and have less ability to plan for the future. Therefore, they have a harder time living in a white-based society and wind up in prison. Many black men have a hard time complying with police officiers’ commands, ending up fighting them, and then getting arrested. Then the police are sent to sensitivity training.”

@ Randy

I hope you read this everytime you think I am Bliff. This is probably one of the most horrific statements I’ve read. It simply reveals the nudity of these racial supremacist goons. They wear NO intellectual clothes.

I wasn’t referring to the justice system and its jurors. I was referring to comments made here, as I stated upthread.

I hope you weren’t referring to my comments. I think mine have been fairly reasonable.

Yes, the law does but people with anti-black racial biases often do not.

I don’t think any group has a monopoly on racial bias. Regardless, most crime is INTRA racial rather INTER racial. So racial bias is irrelevant in most cases. In cases where racial bias is an issue I see no reason to think it would go more one way than the other. Most people, whether white or black, are actually a majority where they live. Take Seattle for instance. Most of the people are white so most of the jurors will be white. However, most of the people in Atlanta are black so most of the jurors will be black, as well. If the justice system in either place was really that bad then the minority in either place would leave.

Having a token black on the jury hardly ensures a fair verdict. Come on, now.

A jury requires a unanimous verdict to convict. So it only takes one juror to acquit the defendant. Of course, I would never acquit a white defendant who I thought was guilty of a violent crime against a black. For one thing it would be dishonest. For another it would create a situation where blacks would reciprocate and then the justice system would break down. And, finally, I don’t want a violent white person walking around my neighborhood. Because his next victim might be me or someone I love. It never pays to let a criminal off the hook.

Just for the record, I think Zimmerman will be indicted. If Trayvon was coming toward him, he had a duty to take safe cover by staying in the car. That would have keep him out of Imminent Danger, therefore, negating his right to use Deadly Force. His shooting is probably not going to be considered murder, but rather something like Voluntary ManSlaughter. He wasn’t following Trayvon to kill him, but shot only after he was punched.

There is more justice in the Casey Anthony jury failure than there would be in such a verdict that you detailed about manslaughter. Zimmerman deserves murder one as far as I am concerned. I hope Nancy Grace prosecutes Trayvon’s case. She would stick it to this scaly & slimy white officer/monster.

Blacks are less intelligent, more impulsive, and have less ability to plan for the future. Therefore, they have a harder time living in a white-based society and wind up in prison.

With the shining example of George Zimmerman, a dumb, impulsive white person with hardly any ability to plan for the future right before your eyes you make this comment?

In light of this example, and others on this blog, here’s one hypothesis:

Whites are less intelligent, more impulsive, and have less ability to plan for the future. Therefore, they have a harder time living in a multicultural society and wind up killing people of color.

[This hypothesis is not true, just as the one made by Randy is not. It’s just to point out the confirmation bias in observation by racist people.]

Finding a 17 year old kid with candies and an iced tea a prospective criminal and then following him and shooting him down – you’ve got to be brain-dead not to find this racially motivated. Would this have happen if the kid were white?

You know, I really don’t understand these Black American commenters. When I was in Florida several years ago, I was in caught in a very similar situation. I was stop by a larger , well-armed white man who order me into his vehicle. I obeyed him (of course) and went in.

And you know what? That year in his basement was the best year of my life! We played in his bathtub (he made up this cool game called sucky-ducky), pin the tail on the donkey (though he called it pin the tail in my ass) and a whole bunch of other fun games! He even made me star in some movies!

I can see why Black Americans hate the police so much. If they hadn’t come, we still would be having fun!!! Darn those guys!!!

Abagond, I wish you would be more compassionate to the new (non-black) posters. Just because they are using outdated and not-so-accurate stats from the “Color of Crime”, and failing to show links to actual CDC, FBI and DOJ stats doesn’t mean that they are spouting of non-sequitors and other such fallacies. The white people only want to help us, and your draconian administration is only showing your bias and reverse racism.

As for me? Well I did get my citizenship, but I had to get my GED because I missed a year of high school. So I joined the Army and got into Army Special Forces based of a the 18X program they had. The proudest day of my life was when I got to wear that Green Beret, and then HALO into Afghanistan a couple weeks later. Throughout all my courses (SFARTATAEC, MFF, MFFJM CDQC, Marine Counterintel, ) I was damn near the top. And let me tell you, I’m the best damn 18C 5th Group has ever seen. At least, the best black one.

So I’m glad to show these young black men the skills and lessons I learnt in SF so that they can improve themselves. These damn kids wearing the pants around their ankles. I don’t have that problem as my suspenders keep my pants where they belong. I will make sure that young black men learn lessons , even those as simple as tying a tie.

When will you people finally wake up and realize that no black person is entitled to the services that his tax dollars pay for, or to the
same rights as other races? When we stop killing and raping other races at the rates that we do, then we can expect the same level of respect that we see the other races receive.

A while back, Abagond did a post called “Just World Doctrine.” When I pulled it up, this reminded me of your comments:

“If power in society and the world is exercised in your interests, there is little reason to question it or doubt its goodness.”

You have nice, neat ways of rationalizing certain things so that they all make sense to you. It probably makes you feel better, too. Statements like, “If the justice system in either place was really that bad then the minority in either place would leave,” and “So racial bias is irrelevant in most cases,” confirm this. You also use the word “irrelevant” a lot. I think this is because you don’t have to experience or worry about the things discussed here, so they are irrelevant as far as you’re concerned.

“Compared to Non-blacks, California’s African-American population are 4 times more likely to be arrested for marijuana, 12 times more likely to be imprisoned for a marijuana felony arrest, and 3 times more likely to be imprisoned per marijuana possession arrest. Overall, as Figure 3 illustrates, these disparities accumulate to 10 times’ greater odds of an African-American being imprisoned for marijuana than other racial/ethnic groups.”

This only shows the true nature of the police. George Zimmerman may have not been an actual police officer, but once he took that gun and got that position as a “neighborhood watchman” (wonder if the people living in the neighborhood started it themselves), he took on the role of a police officer. The only difference is that he did not have a blue uniform and a badge. Yet, because of the authority and power this man got, he was able to kill a young black man and once again get away with it (for now that is.)

You have nice, neat ways of rationalizing certain things so that they all make sense to you.

Yes, I prefer rational arguments to irrational ones.

Statements like, “If the justice system in either place was really that bad then the minority in either place would leave,” and “So racial bias is irrelevant in most cases,” confirm this.

Regarding the first statement. I grew up in a majority black city where there was a lot of bias against whites. So I moved to a majority white city where there wasn’t as much.

Regarding the second statement. If a jury is deciding a case between two people of the same race one wouldn’t expect jurors to have a racial interest in the outcome.

You also use the word “irrelevant” a lot. I think this is because you don’t have to experience or worry about the things discussed here, so they are irrelevant as far as you’re concerned.

I spent most of my life as a minority in a majority black environment. So I have quite a bit of experience regarding the things discussed here.

=========================

@Satanforce

I’m more than willing to debate you on any topic of your choice. Unfortunately, Abagond has warned me against engaging in extended off-topic discussions. So I’ll simply say: Don’t use drugs. Problem solved.

Zimmerman deserves murder one. You’re not thinking, you’re just responding emotionally. To prove murder one, they would have to prove Zimmerman followed Trayvon with the intent of killing him. It would have to premeditated. Since Zimmerman had called the police to come to the scene, its doubtful he would have done this if he had planned to kill Trayvon.

ou’re not thinking, you’re just responding emotionally. To prove murder one, they would have to prove Zimmerman followed Trayvon with the intent of killing him. It would have to premeditated. Since Zimmerman had called the police to come to the scene, its doubtful he would have done this if he had planned to kill Trayvon.

“”

@ Bliff,

IF they prosecutor can demonstrate intent (i.e. if he had abused individuals of color previously) they could very well demonstrate murder one. People don’t just come out of the racist closet with a murder. He will have a history of oppressive behavior towards people of color.

In the real world, crime statistics are not that important to those affected by crime and violence. If you live in a high-crime area, you’re not concerned with who commits more crime based on color. You want the crime and violence to be stopped by law enforcement…Pronto! As black people, we put ourselves in a pickle because we have no consistency when it comes to dealing with the issue. We lump racism within the penal system with real crime, which is wrong. The two issues should never be linked together. This is why criminal-minded black males have no fear about terrorizing their own people and communities. They know that the usual suspects will jump to their rescue when the hammer comes down. As a race, we can’t continue to harm ourselves with said mentality. Until we make a radical change in our mindset, crime will continue to wreak havoc on us in this country and abroad. As far as drug sentencing is concerned, we all know the rules of the game. The criminal justice system is biased toward black folk, and that fact will not change anytime soon. God gave all of us a brain, it’s up to us to use what we have in our skulls. The lack of personal responsibility on our part is amazing to me. Again, blackmen are lions, not tigers. We follow the crowd at our own expense. I want blackmen to think hard about this issue because it’s very important. Any black person that can’t think for themselves and “Decode” the racial bulls**t that swirls around this planet are skating on thin ice…Seriously! Not knowing is what gets you killed. The more you know the longer you’ll stay above ground…Believe It!!!

Interesting question. It’s about time someone asked me this. By your definition I am most definitely a racist. I think there are important Differences Between Blacks and Whites.

By my definition, I am a “race realist”, not really a racist. I don’t even like the modern use of the word racist. Besides being a race realist, I’m probably somewhat prejudiced.

The Differences Between Blacks and Whites include many things that are just differences. Blacks/whites like different music, have different social ways, etc. We all know this. This causes some social separation, but is not criitcal.

More importantly, I believe blacks are less intelligent, are more impulsive, and less able to plan for the future, as in Levin’s book “Why Race Matters”. Similar ideas are in “The Bell Curve”. I believe this because it explains to me why blacks are in the position they are in the US. I have no other reason to believe this. My life, success, and ego do not depend on me taking anything from or putting down any blacks (unlike Abagond’s theories on whites), so I don’t believe it just to have an excuse to demean blacks or to personally benefit.

Whites found this out about blacks way back in slavery days – that there are important differences between the races. This formed whites opinions about blacks. After slavery and until the 60s, whites generally wanted to be separate from blacks. This is not unusual – in many countries, different ethnic groups coexist with each other by living apart.

The US was founded as a white country, with a Western (white) culture. Blacks’ main problems in the US is that they have a hard time living in a white culture. There is nothing innately wrong with blacks – it’s just that they developed as a group outside of white culture in Africa. It’s only within the context of living in white culture that the differences between the races becomes a problem.

Since blacks are less intelligent than whites, they are having a hard time in the modern society where cognitive ability is important and only becoming more so. Many blue collar jobs are gone. Combine the lower intelligence with impulsiveness, and its easy to see how blacks have higher crime rates. They have a hard time getting jobs and turn to crime in higher rates.

To see the affect of different ability, compare blacks progress in sports/entertainment vs the general economy since the 60s. I believe it’s agreed that many blacks are able in the sports/entertainment fields. They make much money and have jobs that whites would covet in these fields. They are very successful, because they have ability. Also note that whites have not held blacks in these fields.

Blacks have a harder time in the general economy because they do not have the intelligence to do so,unlike in the sports/entertainment fields where they do have abilities. Hence, they not flourished as well as in the sports/entertainment fields.

Blacks have a harder time in the general economy because they do not have the intelligence to do so,unlike in the sports/entertainment fields where they do have abilities. Hence, they not flourished as well as in the sports/entertainment fields.

I believe white racism is a small part of blacks problems in the US.

“””

@ Bliff,

It is nice to have a podium for all your built up regurgitation of The Bell Curve.

How does it feel to have such a distorted, one-dimensional view of others.

Maybe you should take another look at my comparison between blacks’ success in sports/entertainment fields vs general economy. Why would their differing abilities in these two areas NOT contribute to their success/nonsuccess in these areas.

Have you read mainstream science’s responses to The Bell Curve race realism, as well as Abagond’s own posts? Pretty pathetic. Worse still are those by Thoma Sowell, man I never Sowell would sell out like that !!

These guys make up all kinds of crap about Tuskegee airmen, northern blacks beating whites on intelligence test in WW1, Black Wall Streets (ha!) and all that crap.

I tell you, these guys are pathetic , sad, angry, and most of all , self -pitiful.

@Bliff
so what about all those white people who commit suicide and kill theirselves,white americans are not able to deal with stress and suicide is 1000x higher than any black women in the USA.What about those Nigerians and Senegalese who come to the USA and their children graduate at the 99.1% rate.That is higher than white americans,when you look at black and latino school graduation rates their is a definite issue.But when you look at minorities from Africa they bypass white,latino and black students like Asian students.Plus the USA was not founded by whites it was overtaken by people from other lands mostly those christian europeans because natice americans were here first ans whites took it over because they thought their white skingave them that right. You do not even realize your white skin gives you everything in the USA and if you do not know that then it is so sad,your white skin gives you privileges most minorities will have to die fighting for.

“But it’s okay if white people (assuming you are white) blame the whole black race on one or a few incidents? Oh! And it’s reasonable to assume that those few are actually most of the black population?”

When have I said that? You’re fabricating imaginary statements and then attributing to me in order smear me. You have a problem.

Newsflash Mr. Personality, this isn’t about you. I was merely asking a couple of questions, questions you’ve yet to answer. And my only problem right now is dealing with your kind of mindset as shown in your blog. So, I’ll ask again, is it okay if white people (assuming you are white) blame the whole black race on one or a few incidents? And is it reasonable to assume that those few are actually most of the black population?

Why, yes! That’s it!
Black people are at fault, for EVERYTHING!!
There was no altercation here, folks. The kid was a kung-fu master and Zimmerman was in real danger.

You know what? All these race-realists are right.
Blacks:

Kidnapped ourselves, put ourselves in chains, beat the shit out of ourselves with a whip, raped ourselves, created a thing called Jim Crow, created a justice sytem that is broken beyond repair, alter statistics to prove that we commit more crimes and then, HOLD ON TO YOUR SEATS, lied about it to make innocent, hardworking, pull yourself up by your bootstraps, Puritan, God-loving morally good white folks feel bad about themselves!!!!

Yet, because of the authority and power this man got, he was able to kill a young black man and once again get away with it (for now that is.)

I’d say it would be pretty unlikely that a civilian could get away with what George Zimmerman did in any state that didn’t have a stand your ground law and possibly any state aside from Florida. (And the law in Florida, it would appear seems rife for abuse..) The shooting pretty much follows the definition of Voluntary Manslaughter on the books in multiple states.

So, I’ll ask again, is it okay if white people (assuming you are white) blame the whole black race on one or a few incidents? And is it reasonable to assume that those few are actually most of the black population?

………………………………..

I’ve repeatedly said that “I don’t subscribe to views that condemn or categorize entire groups of people” because “I believe people are individually responsible for their own actions.” The people who commit crimes are responsible for their own crimes. No one else is responsible for those crimes. Period.

Now, you see me quoting statistics and assume I’m doing it to say blacks as a whole are “bad”. But that’s not why I’m doing it. Look at the argument I’ve been making…

If this incident proves that “whites are racist” then what do those numbers say about blacks? People are individually responsible for their own actions. So let’s judge them individually.

What I’m saying is to stop using incidents or even history to promote prejudice because no group is perfect. The only people I condemn are the ones doing the crimes and the ones using it to promote prejudice against others.

@ Abagond
Reading all the comments and excuses here makes me wonder what will happen to the human race 10, 50 or 100 years from now. Will we be at this very same place?

Will we hear excuses from whites who are happy to see blacks slaughtered?
I’ve said many times on this blog that most whites would be perfectly happy to see us back in chains. And even THEY know that. Much to their chagrin.

There’s something I’ve noticed about most whites in the US; they fight, duck, bend, twist and somersault around not saying what they truly want to say.
Then when we point it out to them, they deny it to our faces and act like we’re imagining things.

I’m opposed to what Zimmerman did for one simple reason, it could have been me. The man was a loaded gun waiting to go off, he could have killed almost anyone. While, I have a high degree of confidence that race played a significant role in this murder – he could have killed anyone of any race.

People need to wrap their heads around the simple fact that bad people just don’t stop being bad because you have blond hair or any other tag you would like to insert at this point.

Just by avoiding the questions is telling in itself. You’re pretty much are hinting that those questions touched a nerve that you hate.

I’ve repeatedly said that “I don’t subscribe to views that condemn or categorize entire groups of people” because “I believe people are individually responsible for their own actions.” The people who commit crimes are responsible for their own crimes. No one else is responsible for those crimes. Period.

That’s funny coming from you who said:

People trying to use this incident to prove that “whites are racist” should remember that blacks committed 83% if the 520,000 violent inter-racial crimes involving blacks and whites nationwide. If this incident proves that “whites are racist” then what do those numbers say about blacks? People are individually responsible for their own actions. So let’s judge them individually.

And yet, you’re trying to paint all or most blacks as rapists against whites. Also, I checked out your blog, and as expected, you’re more focused on black crime than white crime. You’re trying to say that you’re not trying to say that blacks as a whole are bad, but you certainly are implying that heavily.

What I’m saying is to stop using incidents or even history to promote prejudice because no group is perfect. The only people I condemn are the ones doing the crimes and the ones using it to promote prejudice against others.

In the first place, my enlightened fellow, history plays a huge role in how the world is today. You can not begin to understand the reasons why things are the way they are today without taking a look back at not only the glorious parts, but the troubling parts.

Your problem is that you don’t want to face the horrible truths.

You’re damn right not group is perfect. Not whites or blacks, but one group is not the cause of the other’s societal problems.

If your last statement is true, why aren’t you condemning Zimmerman? He did a terrible crime. Didn’t he?

Yea, yea. I know that sounds like I’m whining to you. It’s funny how your complaining is seen as legit and those of blacks are seen as whining.

If you’re so concerned with personal responsibility why not try preaching it to your own people before you judge mine.

Yes, I agree.
This Zimmerman bloke was a loaded gun waiting to blow. What you are reading here, badwolf, is hurt that this will never end, anger that it could’ve been our sons, little brothers, cousins or family friends and outrage at how nonchalant people seem to be at a dead black boy. Remember the outrage at JonBenet Ramsey, Amy Smart, etc? Remember the tears and sobbing for a child that people didn’t even know? Where are all the whites crying for this boy?

Race is an issue. Always will be. Never gonna not be.

I know we go off in a tangent when this occurs but what most whites don’t understand is being black in America could mean life or death. I fear for myself and I’m a woman, petite and do not wear ‘thug’ clothes.
What if one of us here on this blog like, Abagond or Darqbeauty went to buy some soda? Are they to look around, paranoid of what MIGHT happen?

@Uncle Milton
“I’d say it would be pretty unlikely that a civilian could get away with what George Zimmerman did in any state that didn’t have a stand your ground law and possibly any state aside from Florida. (And the law in Florida, it would appear seems rife for abuse..) The shooting pretty much follows the definition of Voluntary Manslaughter on the books in multiple states.

Now if he were a police officer, that’s a very different story.”

I’m not saying that it would be normal for a civilian to get away with what Zimmerman did. What I’m saying is that this man has authority and because of that combined with racism, he was able to murder Trayvon Martin. The police basically took Zimmerman’s story at face value because while he was not a police officer, by threatening and then shooting a young man he basically acted in the same role that police officers do. Unfortunately, the history of the police not just in the USA but around the world is to abuse their power. The very nature of the police and organizations like it is to act as a permanent actor of force. They are treated as being superior to other ‘citizens’ on virtue of their position regardless of how they act. So instead of Zimmerman being arrested, he got off scott free. I think as this case gets more attention (I don’t trust the media in this case), maybe the public outcry and outrage (however it’s expressed) will force the members of the justice system to reconsider.

Just by avoiding the questions is telling in itself. You’re pretty much are hinting that those questions touched a nerve that you hate.

I haven’t avoided anything.

And yet, you’re trying to paint all or most blacks as rapists against whites.

No. I’m not. You’re ignoring my argument.

Also, I checked out your blog, and as expected, you’re more focused on black crime than white crime. You’re trying to say that you’re not trying to say that blacks as a whole are bad, but you certainly are implying that heavily.

I’m not particularly focused on crime at all. But I haven’t written some. You may not like them but they’re not prejudicial. If you think otherwise then you either haven’t read or understood them.

history plays a huge role in how the world is today. You can not begin to understand the reasons why things are the way they are today without taking a look back at not only the glorious parts, but the troubling parts.

In other words, you think its someone else’s fault that you’re not rich.

If your last statement is true, why aren’t you condemning Zimmerman? He did a terrible crime. Didn’t he?

I think so. But I’m going to wait for them to charge him and release the report before I demand an execution. What do you think — Does giving him a trial sound like a good idea to you? Or would you rather just skip the trial altogether?

Why is the truly criminal unjust system/legal system so racially biased in the United States?

The obvious fact (to most black/brown people) is that most whites are basically racist, meaning that they harbor racist attitudes, feelings, ideas, expectations, grudges, resentment, anger, fear, and even HATE towards black folks.

Science and empirical research, now caught up with black and brown people’s knowledge and awareness, shows that whites as a “normalized & privileged” group, are largely incapable of seeing their racism, and how their racism has real life consequences for others, particularly black people.

This is not to say that white people are all evil trolls, as I’ve had the rather disconcerting experience of “knowing” some rather NICE, white racists in my off line life. These people were in FACT very charming, outgoing and friendly — even likable. Nonetheless, they were like every other white skinned privileged person born and raised in racist/white supremacist America. They harbored racist ideas, feelings, fear, expectations and so on – much of which they couldn’t see, or admit to. This is what growing up in America does to white people. They become racist to some degree, whether it is unconscious or conscious racism.

There are very telling implicit bias studies which measure different aspects regarding how white police react to blacks relative to whites.

The above duke.edu link looks at IMPLICIT BIAS, how and why it affects outcomes in the legal system. It mainly discusses how this bias affects jurors, judges, attorneys. But it stops short of mentioning other critical occupations within the legal system that also plays a part in affecting what solutions and resolutions are determined. The outcome – for those black/brown people that tragically fall into this calamitous system is in essence CONTROLLED & DETERMINED overwhelmingly by whites.

Clearly, the implications of the adherent implicit biases among white lawyers, jurors, judges (like the one recently found dissing Obama and his mom) would also hold true for other white employees working throughout the entire American legal system. Police, correction, court-room, probation and parole OFFICERS – bounty hunters, court reporters, parole boards, physicians, medical personnel, wardens, psychologists and other white implicitly biased employees make up the enormous unofficial yet powerful enterprise of an unacknowledged white racist nexus.

It also explains, to a large degree, why and how white skin privilege works in the legal system. Whites are routinely given breaks, second chances and lighter sentences, while black and brown people are routinely routed into MORE NEGATIVE outcomes that are shaped by a very racist system that is somehow conveniently unseen – by the blind “white” (sic) souls that come here pushing their myths and fantasies.

Trolls, like whiteness, at all costs must always be right. Even when they are clearly not.

your white skin gives you privileges. There is no such thing as White Privilege. There is only Black Failure. Whites created this nation and enjoy their just desserts. So far, at least, Blacks have been unable to perform as well in this culture, and lag behind. Blacks don’t understand this and so the myth of White Privilege came about.

The obvious fact (to most black/brown people) is that most whites are basically racist. It’s very strange that you and most blacks blame whites for being racist and holding down blacks. Is there any thing blacks need to do to improve their condition? What would that b?. It’s very hard to believe that blacks’ condition is 100% due to whites. Surely, the blacks should do something.

adherent implicit biases among white lawyers, jurors, judges would also hold true for other white employees. It’s just a big conspiracy, isn’t it. The entire legal system is dedicated to being as bad as possible to blacks. It wouldn’t have anything to do with the fact that perhaps the blacks committ more crimes than whites.

Whites are routinely given breaks, second chances and lighter sentences. Maybe they have fewer priors, show remorse, etc.

People pointed out earlier that Trayvon punched this Zimmerman
At this the public has no idea who initiated the first physical contact.but when Trayvon asked him `What’s your problem?’
This information came from the shooter himself and not from any witnesses. Trayvon may have said that.. or he may said nothing.. or even that he was walking back to his father’s house.

Whether Trayvon said something or not, Zimmerman had no reason to get out of his car and engage him. Other than Zimmerman’s own prejudices towards Trayvon’s race and the clothing he was wearing, there was no evidence Trayvon was a dangerous criminal. The fact is, Trayvon wasn’t… yet he still got killed.

You seem to like black crime quite a bit. But where is the white crime? Oh yeah! White people only comment a very small percentage of crime in this country because it’s based on statistics, numbers and shit.

In other words, you think its someone else’s fault that you’re not rich.

Now you’re just pulling straws. You seem desperate.

I think so. But I’m going to wait for them to charge him and release the report before I demand an execution. What do you think — Does giving him a trial sound like a good idea to you? Or would you rather just skip the trial altogether?

Part of me wants to see him tried and convicted, but I also aware that this nation’s court system is (hold on to your seat) racially biased. Chances are reasonable that the court will give him a light punishment. Hell, he hay even get acquitted of all charges if he ever does get charged. Then again, he may never get charged. Only time will tell.

Now, you may think that we have no reason to be outraged over this, but we are tired of this reality and then are being told that it’s nonsense to feel that way. But here’s something you don’t know or care to know, black people are people with feelings. If you’re unable or unwilling to let that sink in, then I leave you with one wish:

There is no such thing as White Privilege. There is only Black Failure. Whites created this nation and enjoy their just desserts. So far, at least, Blacks have been unable to perform as well in this culture, and lag behind. Blacks don’t understand this and so the myth of White Privilege came about.

Do you even know what white privilege is?

Of course, blacks are doomed to fail because they’re black. God must’ve been drunk when he created us. Sometimes I wonder how you sleep at night with so much disdain for black people for outdated if not dopey reasons.

By the way, you may not consider yourself a racist, but a race-realist, but like the old saying goes, if it walks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.

@bliff “There is no such thing as White Privilege. There is only Black Failure. Whites created this nation and enjoy their just desserts. So far, at least, Blacks have been unable to perform as well in this culture, and lag behind. Blacks don’t understand this and so the myth of White Privilege came about”.

If this was 1989 I think you would still be only half right, even by then american blacks were doing things that americans in 1900 would think was unimaginable . But in 2012 you are 0 percent right. Blacks have climbed out of the gutter and are making incredible strides, so much so that affirmative action in some parts of the country is the gravy on top, no longer the main course. That has been the basis of some of my arguments when I see poor blacks doing better than poor whites in mixed communities. How could they continue to play the race card then. But this is off topic anyways.

Hell, he hay even get acquitted of all charges if he ever does get charged. Then again, he may never get charged. Only time will tell.

I am guessing at minimum he will be charged. The Florida stand your ground law seems problematic but it would appear he had the obligation to retreat (because, at least from the information we have, he initiated contact first…) under that law. I am very sure he would have been charged with something, likely manslaughter, if the shooting had occurred in my area. (San Francisco Bay Area…)

@brothawolf take your blinders off for a second and listen to me please. I read your link about the eyewitness and it swayed me. This man was in the wrong it seems. Why would the witness come out now on the news unless she felt it was necessary and she felt in her heart she was absolutely right. I know I wouldn’t contact the news as a witness unless I was sure, actually off the record like that if she’s lying she could be sued………………but…………you knew that was coming.

What is the point on holding the whole white race accountable. You don’t like that when it’s the other way around. When does two wrongs don’t make a right apply to you. How about the golden rule. Do unto others. How the hell can you yell at “destructure” after looking at his blog when your blog has an anti-white agenda that weighs 100,000 pounds.

and don’t turn around and say well “white people never follow the rules of decency”…………..dude you don’t know all of us. You don’t know many of us , and you probably know very few of us ,and you are judging us based on crimes. If you want to do that fine , but you can’t be the authority when someone turns it around on you.

It’s like the snake eating his tail. It’s a cycle now that has no good end.

@brothawolf take your blinders off for a second and listen to me please. I read your link about the eyewitness and it swayed me. This man was in the wrong it seems. Why would the witness come out now on the news unless she felt it was necessary and she felt in her heart she was absolutely right. I know I wouldn’t contact the news as a witness unless I was sure, actually off the record like that if she’s lying she could be sued………………but…………you knew that was coming.

According to the report, she didn’t say anything out of fear.

What is the point on holding the whole white race accountable. You don’t like that when it’s the other way around. When does two wrongs don’t make a right apply to you. How about the golden rule. Do unto others. How the hell can you yell at “destructure” after looking at his blog when your blog has an anti-white agenda that weighs 100,000 pounds.

No one, not even me, is holding the whole white race accountable. But here’s the deal, white people need to stop acting like their shit don’t stink. It seems hard as help for them to listen to us and it’s apparently a sin to question their intelligence and morals when it comes to race.

You also have a bad habit of seeing the words ‘all’ or ‘whole’ when it comes to comments referring to white people when it clearly shows that they are figments of your imagination.

I can talk to destructive if I can. Of course there is a 98.5% chance that he will ignore what I’m saying and expect me to listen to him. Anyway, I’m talking to destructive because he’s trying to make it seem like most black people are violent for no reason, certainly not the reasons that black people bring up like how Bliff over there is doing.

and don’t turn around and say well “white people never follow the rules of decency”…………..dude you don’t know all of us. You don’t know many of us , and you probably know very few of us ,and you are judging us based on crimes. If you want to do that fine , but you can’t be the authority when someone turns it around on you.

And you don’t know even a fraction of us. Yet, whites think they are the better authority on black people than black people themselves, but time after time, they’ve been proven to be DEAD WRONG!

I wouldn’t even say that white people never follow the rules of decency. That’s putting words into my mouth. If anything, whites are victims of their own racial propaganda and moral bankruptcy. Some of them can’t or won’t see it because feeling good inside takes precedence over being free. That’s why certain people here are trying hard as hell to defend Zimmerman and the shitty justice system that protects people like him.

@brothawolf again “us……..them” sooner or later you have to realize it’s “we” we all have our problems. I realize you are trying to get out a message that you believe in. Would you share those views with a five year old. Hit me back when you can answer that honestly.

No one denies that it’s we, and yes, we all have our problems. The thing is each one of us have our own share of individual problems while groups experience collective problems with themselves and other groups.

And you still can’t or won’t comprehend that what I was saying. White people here in the U.S. and possibly around the world need to free themselves from the kind of thinking that keeps them away from learning about other people. Likewise, blacks here in America and possibly around the world need to break free from the mindset that has deceived them for so long.

You see everything you’ve said to me is nothing new. And yes, I’ve taken it in. Your issues are (A) you include yourself in the collective whenever white people are discussed and criticized. Therefore, (B) you hate it when POC criticize white people, but say nothing when POC are harshly judged. And (C) you think we are talking about all white people when that clearly isn’t the case. If you can’t disassociate yourself from the collective, take criticism, and think that we have an extreme disdain for the entire white race, then that’s YOUR hangup as I and other people have explained it simple as possible that we are not referring to the whole group.

@brothawolf I have spoken up when blacks and others are unjustly criticized, I did it a few comments up. Have you done the same? No . You are in no position to judge me. I have a feeling I’ve had alot more life experience than you. Maybe you are the one who needs to listen, because I have.

In the first place, my enlightened fellow, history plays a huge role in how the world is today. You can not begin to understand the reasons why things are the way they are today without taking a look back at not only the glorious parts, but the troubling parts.

Co-sign. The attitude that history doesn’t matter is so prevalent in American & British people. Obviously, looking back at the historical process of how they got where they are would rob them of the illusion of their racial superiority and bootstrap-myth.

Yes. No white person ever benefitted from the mass profits generated from slavery, free land given away by the crown unavailable to blacks, cheap farm loans unavailable to blacks, social security unavailable to sharecroppers and hoosemaids etc. Yup, thoase hard working whites on the railways and in the cotton fields, hard at work….

There’s no need to explain anything. My posts are perfectly reasonable and non-prejudicial. Not once do I blame a whole group for the actions of a few. You don’t like them because they don’t reach your favored conclusion of “whites be racist!”

You seem to like black crime quite a bit. But where is the white crime? Oh yeah! White people only comment a very small percentage of crime in this country because it’s based on statistics, numbers and shit.

No. I don’t like black crime at all. And I don’t write about it that much, either. I’ve written 160 posts and only a handful mention crime. One of the posts you referenced doesn’t even mention blacks but you took it as being specifically aimed at blacks. It wasn’t. It makes me wonder if you even read it.

I never said “White people only comment a very small percentage of crime”. Whites commit plenty of crime. But its mostly against themselves so what do you care?

Part of me wants to see him tried and convicted,

I think so, too. But I’m not ready to execute him just yet if that’s okay with you. I’d like to see the results of the investigation first. Maybe even a trial.

but I also aware that this nation’s court system is (hold on to your seat) racially biased. Chances are reasonable that the court will give him a light punishment. Hell, he hay even get acquitted of all charges if he ever does get charged. Then again, he may never get charged. Only time will tell.

I thought the same thing after Gov Patterson (black) commuted the sentence of John White (also black) for shooting and killing an unarmed white teen. He was only sentenced 2-4 years and released after 5 months.

mass profits generated from slavery. Oh, there we will go again with Blacks’ Golden Age of Slavery. Not so for golden for the slaves, but its the gift that keeps on giving for present-day blacks and who knows how far out into the future. Blacks wll shamelessly milk slavery for all they can get out of it, even though it ended 150 yrs ago.

Whatever excessive wealth the slave-holding plantation owners were making on the backs of the slaves, that came to an end in 1865. The plantation system was destroyed in the Civil War, and the South remained poor until after WWII. Therefore, no wealth from slavery has been passed down. No white today has benefitted from slavery.

hard working whites on the railways. Yep, that’s true. Whites, either doing the labor or in the offices, created the railroads and the rest of the US economy starting in the post-Civil War era with their white Human Capital. Blacks have been far less successful.

And 150 years ago is now considered almost ancient history?(That’s two 75 year old people living and dying back to back. To me, that is not so distant) I guess generational wealth and legacy is a figment of the collective Black imagination. The way this persons mind works is very engrossing.

This person is so far left field, one cannot even take them seriously. This is a fascinating study in how racism makes the mind diseased and incapable of rational thought.

I also find it noteworthy that this person has engaged in conversation for so long with people he considers beneath him. We are not going to give. He is not going to give. Speaking to someone like this is an exercise in futility, but oh so entertaining.

P.S.
My family came from slaves then became sharecroppers. My grandmother worked her fingers to the bone sharecropping. From the same family that owned ours. Their family was able to send their children to Medical school because of the hard work of my family. My grandmother is a very wise woman. She told me words I will never ever forget : “There is NO shame in being a slave. Only a slave holder.”

Over 400 years of slavery had absolutely NO effect on modern American standards of living, socio-economic disparity and wealth accumulation? To even utter those words, you would have to be ignorant of even the most rudimentary aspects of American history.

I don’t know you you guys can deal with this kind of polluted thinking. You have more patience than I. I’m not able to condescend to hold a conversation with someone who thinks they are better than me based on their lack of melanin. Logically, everything you say is going to be discounted. This person will never understand your point of view because they do not WANT to. This cognitive dissonance leads them to believe this way, though they could be shown to be absolutely wrong many times over. This person has a set way of thinking. Why would they come here and expect for us to acquiesce to their ideology? We have heard this same regurgitated feces for so long. We are not learning anything new from them. We’ve known what they think of us for over 400 years and counting. How is this correspondence beneficial to us?

The person in question need not respond. There is nothing we have to say to one another.

~~~~~
Oh and this is DarqBeauty. I’m not using a sock puppet, I just can’t seem to comment. WordPress is acting shady. -_-

Yep, that’s true. Whites, either doing the labor or in the offices, created the railroads and the rest of the US economy starting in the post-Civil War era with their white Human Capital. Blacks have been far less successful.”

Soooo….what were the Chinese doing while whites labored and built all the railroads? I regret to inform you that have just gone “Full Blown Retard.”

I told my mother the almost the exact same thing, verbatim, yesterday evening. Cause an effect is the law of the Universe. Willful blindness isn’t going to make an ugly past go away. In an increasingly global society, this kind of disparaging thought process can only hinder their OWN growth. They do not see how sick they are. And that we offer medicine for their ills, no matter how bitter that medicine may be. I actually feel somewhat sorry for these kinds of people. They are missing out on knowing wonderful people and thoughtful (not inflammatory) exchange. But no. They come here and start off about how un intelligent we are. Then proceed to argue for days on end with the objects of their scorn. This does not make sense.

My family came from slaves…..was able to send their children to Medical school because of the hard work of my family.

You have eyes, but you do not see. You don’t realize that even coming from a family of slaves, in America, your family was able to send some members to medical. That is how America is supposed to work. Apparently, the slavery did not stop your family from improving their lot.

Whites do this all the time…improve their lot through effort, through their Human Capital. Blacks do this to a lesser extent, with too many wanting to whine about racism instead.

So you see, we agree more than you realize. Your family did it the American way and was rewarded. I applaud your family for that. Why would you think I think differently about this?

Thanks, yeah, the Chinese were there, too, along with many Irish and other whites. However, the Chinese did not invent, conceive, design, finance, etc the railroads, which is the most important part. Being simple laborers does not give the Chinese credit for the American railway system.

Proof that you didn’t read the whole comment. I asked you not to respond to me. We have nothing to say to one another. You think I am unintelligent. I think you are a fool. Never shall the two meet. Good day.

@truthbetold
I’m not feeding them but they seem to be sniffing my pockets for hand outs anyways. 🙂

I have to say thats quite insightful. But it is choice they have free will to make. But does prove the link that most of us already intuitively realized from the inception of slavery. They need this medicine or they simply would not grow. Which is precisely what would be happening if Black/African people were not around. This is were the converse is not true. Black & POC people don’t need to endure this type of suffering for ever in order to grow – which is why that full circle coming around again.

Over 400 years of slavery had absolutely NO effect on modern American standards of living, socio-economic disparity and wealth accumulation?

That’s correct. I think you are responding emotionally to the history of slavery. Most of its present day effects are non-existent and exist mostly in your head. You can feel anyway you want about slavery, but thats a personal matter, and has no bearing on any discussions on this blog.

Most whites did not own slaves, so they could not have possibly inherited any wealth from slavery. Many whites, like my family, came here to America after slaverys, o they could not have possibly inherited any wealth from slavery, either. Like I said in a previous comment, the wealth we have now in 2012 was generated from our Human Capital.

More selective reading on the part of “he who shall not be named”. I clearly stated that through MY families generational hard work, the former slave owners were able to send their children to Medical School.

~~~~~
MY grandmother told me a story about how she would get up before the sun rose and work the fields. She was so young and tired but this was her life. She told me how bitter was her hurt and scorn when they would turn in the monthly allotments and watch the white family take off the very next day to buy new clothes and good food. While she was dressed in rags. That is why when someone says to you guys, “No white today has benefit from slavery”, I have to speak up. The pain, hurt and anger that is STILL in my grandmothers voice when she speaks of this…when she speaks of the indignities HER mother and father suffered…I MUST SPEAK UP. To some of these people, this is a mental game of chess. They can afford the luxury of speculation. To others it /was/is their LIVES. Their reality. Hell, I’m about to call my grandma RIGHT NOW and tell her that I love her.

Let me pretend to be Satanforce for a moment and play Devil’s Advocate.

~~~

The reason Black children are subjected to more harsh penalties for the same infractions as white students is because with Blacks it’s innate. White children are just going through a hard developmental stage. For Blacks it’s ingrained. And speaking of development, the reason that Black children with disabilities are restrained more often than white students with disabilities is because those Black children aren’t really children. They are stronger because of past selective breeding. Therefore a Black child the same age and stature as a white child will have increased muscle mass. It is in the best interest of the teacher to restrain them so they don’t hurt everyone else with their weirdly superhuman negroid strength.

Your ignorance is astounding if you truly believe that slavery (and it’s demoralizing sub-categories of convict leasing, jim crow, and all the institutional and attitudinal outgrowths of these systems of degredation ) has had no measurable inverse economic and social impact on both ‘White ‘and ‘Black’ Americans.

W.O.W.

Bliff, your rigid and deeply held form of denial IS a form of psychopathology preventing you from engaging in the art of critical self-reflection neccessary for intellectual and emotional growth as a human being. So with that said, I sincerely wish for you the discipline, open-mindedness, intellect, and empathy required to be a better human being.

1. It is okay to harass and murder black kids as long as they are “black enough” to look “suspicious” according to lunatics who can’t get over their own racial hang ups.

2. Anyone who believes black people are “less intelligent”, “more impulsive” and less likely to plan for the future is not a racist, but a “realist”. They also believe in individuality and don’t judge groups of people (although they do), however anyone who disagrees with them is imbalanced and a true racist.

3. It’s okay to make up details about a black kid’s life as long as it helps you excuse your own personal prejudices against him. If you can turn him into a criminal or “thug”, you have a pass to say anything.

4. White vigilantes are heroes no matter how many people they shoot, black people are “thugs” who should be locked away for life.

5. Full grown white men should be treated like children and have their hand held through every little “mistake” they make, no matter how many times they make them. Black kids should be harassed and shot for making the “mistake” of visiting the wrong neighborhood.

6. Do not, for the life of you, ever call out any white adult for anything they do to anyone else, especially if it involves racism. They can say everything they want to you, do all they want to you, but God help you if you don’t smile and thank them.

7. Your rights can be taken away by any white man at any time. if you are black, you don’t even have the right to safely walk to the store and back.

8. Don’t expect the law to help you. If you are black, at best it will be your fault you were killed or beaten, even if you committed the crime of looking at someone the wrong way.

Exactly. Remember how much it was stressed that 17 years old is not a child (though the law declares otherwise) and therefore he was a man. And everyone knows that Black men are prone to violence. A man pounces out of his car to engage someone the police told him NOT to and is armed with a gun. Yet he felt threatened. Rightly so. Scary Negroids have a shorter childhood than normal white children due to high sex drives/Negroid hormones/harsh and violent living conditions ect, therefore when this armed man confronted this Black person, it was not a child he confronted but a Black MAN. Capable of ANYTHING. So capable of anything that he was found dead with candy in his pocket. It was only a matter of time before the Negroid snatched the gun away and turned it on the well meaning white man. The white man didn’t listen to the cops because he knew better. He didn’t stay in his car because it was his right as a white male. Everyone knows that “they always get away”. Well not this one.

Whatever excessive wealth the slave-holding plantation owners were making on the backs of the slaves, that came to an end in 1865. The plantation system was destroyed in the Civil War, and the South remained poor until after WWII. Therefore, no wealth from slavery has been passed down. No white today has benefitted from slavery.

This is so obvious I feel stupid typing this. Slavery meant free labor. Labor creates value, and that value was usurped by the slaveowners. And they got rich. When the slaves were freed, they didn’t have any property and hence had to sell their labor extremely cheap for survival. The propertyowners, i.e the whites exploited the miserable condition of blacks and got rich thanks to the cheap labor.

It’s logical that South would get poorer (not poor) after the end of slavery as all the free labor they used to get came to an end. North got richer because of the cheap labor from blacks at their factories. US got all that from blacks without having to spend a penny on them even though govt support was available for whites.

The correlation between daddy-mommy’s wealth and the amount of education the child gets is obvious (and statistically well-backed, look up if you want to). Higher education meant better future, better pay. The wealth that whites got out of exploiting blacks helped them maintain their superior position in the society.

According to Justice Taney in the Dred Scott case (1857), the authors of the Constitution had viewed all blacks as:

“beings of an inferior order, and altogether unfit to associate with the white race, either in social or political relations, and so far inferior that they had no rights which the white man was bound to respect.”

And now it wants to whine because none of the evil Negroids agree with his racist rhetoric. Once again, you guys have the patience of saints. I fear angelsanddimensions (great screen name by the way) is casting pearls to swine, so to speak. But I commend their effort to educate.

Yes, that whole “No white today has benefitted from slavery” quote just took it from the surreal to the absurdly amusing. I thought that this might be an adolescent. I’m hoping it is. Because that is the only way that such ignorance could ever hoped to be excused. For a race realist, he sure doesn’t seem to have a grip on reality.

Thank you, finally, at least a response addressing the issue, and not my ugly, deformed mug.

After the Civil War, the slaveholders were largely ruined; the slaves were freed without compensation, the war had caused extensive damage, and the political system was chaotic. They did have the sharecroppers working at low wages, but apparently no great wealth was generated after 1865, because the South was poor and backward until after WWII.

There was no govt support for whites back then. The free enterprise system built this country after the Civil War, not the govt. Most blacks did not work in the Northern factories, until starting after WWI, somewhat, but mostly starting in WWII.

Therefore, there was no wealth heldover from the OLD South that contributed to the USA’s industrialization after the Civil War.

This discussion has veered seriously off-topic. The post was about Trayvon Martin’s death, not the economics of slavery. That might be a good topic for another post. I’ve got some excellent peer reviewed studies to share.

Also, some of your readers are calling others “animals”, “swine” and “it” in an attempt to dehumanize them. There may have been some veiled calls for ‘racial war’, as well.

This is all very interesting. There really IS a big difference between how blacks and whites view even this one issue, and how we even think about it. I hope you at least understand why I stated what I did even if you don’t agree with it. I am seeing that most blacks can’t get past their own narrow self-interest viewpoint when talking about slavery. The emotion of the issue takes precedence of any facts.

The fact of the matter is that Zimmerman was told not to follow Trayvon. He did. He didn’t have to get out of his car. He did. He did not have to get into a verbal altercation with the LEGAL child. He did. Trayvon ended up dead because Zimmerman did what he wanted to do at the expense of Trayvon’s life. No amount of doublespeak, backtracking and verbal footwork negates those points. End of story. This is every Black parents greatest nightmare coming true.

Wow…”narrow self-interest view point”, coming from people who tried to argue that this was Trayvon’s fault (or black people’s fault) in order to avoid any talk about white racism and how it related to this case…

@ DarqBeauty,

Thank you! I don’t understand what’s so hard to understand about that? I wonder: if the races were reversed, i am sure there would be white people everywhere calling for the death penalty and the “good old days”.

Amusing indeed– some folk aren’t even worth the time. I think these “realist” are getting a real high off the utter nonsense they are spewing, some are even trying to moderate for you, Abagond (LOL!! the audacity).

Trayvon Martin was a teenager whose life was cut short by some hot head wanna be robo-cop. I pray justice will be serve for the Martin family.

Zimmerman is worthless-and his life is nothing more than example of the racist white-mind set that is so pervasive in the USA and abroad.

We must study/ dissect the racist white mind-set so we can be pro-active and make it better for the next generation of POC.

*I’m lifelearner aka mashiara4life/not a sock puppet* for some reason it won’t let me use that name*

It is straight and to the point. I don’t know what’s so hard to understand for some people. They invest all this fancy footwork into denying the obvious. Because they look at Blacks as a monolithic group, they look at themselves as individuals. Except when someone white does something wrong. Then when they are criticized, they act affronted like we are personally attacking them. Acknowledging a wrong does not take power AWAY from you. Acknowledging that Trayvon was wrongly and horrifically gunned down is seen as giving Blacks the upper hand. Which is so sad. I’d be more willing to listen to their rancorous drivel if they showed even a spark of human compassion. As it stands, I am not seeing that. Just more and more justification.

Who do you think you’re fooling? That comment has already been removed so just let it go.

=================

DarqBeauty

The same thing happened to me. I had to log out and log back into WP, reload Abagond’s page and select the gravatar icon before I made my comment. That’s basically what I did. You’re mean to me and I still help you. See how nice I am?

Either they’re individuals or they’re not. They can’t just cherry pick depending on whats convenient for them. They don’t give a crap who’s life they’re trampling all over as long as they can say something about black people.

It’s so odd, because they’re at the point where even acknowledging an act as bad (i.e. shooting a teenager, setting a little girl on fire) is seen as giving “the enemy” an advantage. Despite all they do to black people, black people are always the “enemy”. An 18 year old black teenager can serve his country, but a 17 year old black teenager can’t walk down the street without being harassed and shot. And their compassion seems to always be suspiciously absent when its time to discuss something happening to a black person, then it’s just victim blaming and a racial circle jerk.

It disturbs me that to these people, a black victim of violence somehow proves a black pathology, but a white killer gets a pass.

Do you have evidence whatsoever of this happening systematically, i.e, whites are getting off just because their white. I don’t want to hear about 75 yrs ago. I only care about the world we live in…Now or the recent past.

Ace, when you start blabbering about white racism, I think your brain is off and only your mouth is working. You make incredibly irresponsible statements.

I’m talking about people like you and others here, on this thread, who are attempting to rationalize the actions of the man who killed Trayvon Martin, not anything systematic.

And I’ve seen the posts you come up with (like your classy little slavery post up there), so trying to invalidate any argument I’ve made by dismissing it as “blabbering” is just the pot calling the kettle black.

I suppose it would be easier if I were just another black person you could dismiss with your typical back peddling and microaggressions.

SAD situation at the least it is manslaughter. He was attacked! The kid still did not deserve to die but none of us were there! Maybe he was in fear for his life? What is the offenders size? How old is the offender?

I’d like to see the same outrage from all of ya’ll when a another black committs a black on black crime!! Black on black crime is out of control, rapes murders assaults rapes domestics etc!!!!!

Let’s see, I’ve got sharecroppers in my family, too. On my dad’s side. My mother’s father was raised by a black man. I kid you not. It’s true. I went to school in a housing project in a majority black city. Which was loads of fun. I dated a black girl once. And I’m mildly autistic. So there’s nothing fake. What you see is pretty much what it is.

Satanforce

Stop it. I’m married with children. But there will always be a place for you in my basement.

What an apt moniker you have – your innaprporiate assertions about Black Crime statistics on this particular thread, a thread that is discussing the slaying of an adolescent is ‘sick’ and your POV is tired.

How would you know if there is or isn’t outrage? Why bring up black crime statistics? After all, the black person here is the victim. And why do we have to rationalize or figure things out from the killer’s point of view. The facts are there: He stalked and murdered a teenager, who he attempted to call the cops on before hand, purely for walking around. There’s no room to pretend differently.

I can’t anymore with you guys today. It’s spring break, I’m a beautiful young woman, I’ve got some extra money in my pockets for once and I live about 1.5 miles from Laguna Beach. The sunshine and surf is calling my name. I expect the Billy Goats Gruff Group will deal with the trolls accordingly. Be well all. 🙂

Miami police have shot and killed seven African-American men in the past eight months, and the city’s black community wants a better explanation than “we were doing our jobs and following department policy.”

Not helping the perception of the force, a video has leaked showing Miami police officers breaking down doors, hauling handcuffed African-American suspects off the streets and proclaiming, “We like to hunt.”

Before I leave destructure, I will return your kindness. The scientist James Watson, who was resigned because of inflammatory remarks, believed Blacks to be inherently inferior. When his own DNA was tested and released to the public, it was found that he had very high African genetic markers. So high that they would have had to come from a grandfather or great grandfather.

Yes, the joke was at your expense, but since it’s a cheap laugh, you aren’t out very much “currency”. And yes, we all think it is quite funny.

Your question can be answered and has been answered by many scholars, but if answers fall on deaf ears than enlightenment can not occur.

Just one thing: A child is a child is a child. Repeat daily on the hour.

Maybe what you can do just for kicks is jot down quickly your first reaction when you see a black child (of course you could expand this to adults for real self-analysis). Variables could include but not limited to: age range, gender, style of clothing, and if possible if they are alone or with a group. Do this for a month and see what you discover about yourself. I know you can do it!

hard working whites on the railways. Yep, that’s true. Whites, either doing the labor or in the offices, created the railroads and the rest of the US economy starting in the post-Civil War era with their white Human Capital. Blacks have been far less successful.

If you are alone in a moving vehicle and stopped by law enforcement, pull over slowly and park in a “very public” area that is in view of others and is well lighted. Do not speed or gesture outside the window in any threatening manner.

Use your mobile phone to quickly alert someone what is happening. Even calling an answering machine and letting it record what is happening is a good way of documenting the events.

Turn your car off and place your hands on the wheel. Open your window slightly…enough to talk to the cop and hand him your license and registration. This will stop him from poking his head in the car claiming he smells or sees something. Please note that if an officer requests you to roll your window down you should likely comply.

If you are in a car with other passengers and are stopped by police, let your passengers know that you will do all of the talking.

If not told to you, politely ask why you are being pulled over before he starts questioning you.

Never confess you broke the law by telling him/her you were speeding or didn’t see a traffic sign.

Know that you do not have to consent to a search and practice saying, “I do not consent to a search” (this includes subway train searches as well, although places such as the airport, border checkpoints, and some arenas are the exception).

It is all right to answer a question with a question to determine if you are free
to go such as “Officer am I free to go?”

If you are arrested, you have the right to speak to an attorney. It is your right to say “Officer I have nothing more to say to you until I speak to my attorney.”

NEVER run from the police! NEVER. NEVER. NEVER. If you run from the police they have probable cause to arrest you and they may shoot you.

Don’t ever think the cops can’t search your car. They can always come up with probable cause. All they have to do is bring in a dog and SAY it indicated the presence of drugs in the car. I’ve had that happen to me and I don’t even use drugs. But he found my hardware. YIKES.

Yep, that’s my thought exactly. They want to take the stigma out of being called “racist”, by just changing their name. I don’t know who they are fooling though, because if it walks, like a duck, talks like a duck, sounds like a duck- it still a duck 🙂 darn quackers 😛 *he he*

@SF- bookmarking the link! Also-what about putting a cellphone on the dashboard and recording the whole encounter before the cop gets to the driver side-*never can be too careful*

I’m done arguing with you. You are starting to no longer make sense, and it’s getting worse. You’re trying to defend the white race at all cost when I never mentioned “all whites” or “the whole white race.” So, this conversation is over.

Destructure,

I see your answer now, though I still have a hard time believing you. You may be one of those people that type one thing while thinking another. Your blog makes your comments about seeing people as individuals and personal responsibility suspect. I’m just saying.

Bliff,

Nevermind. I can’t come up with a witty response for the ridicuous, asinine comments you’ve been pulling shit out of your ass.

Not even going to respond to anything directly, but every negative response from WN commenters from what I can gather is based on at least 1 of the following three ideas: 1.) The white way is the right way, 2.) Whites are somehow helping us, 3.) Whatever ill whites do, or have done, ain’t so bad; especially when compared to what all the lesser forms of human life do, or have done. This, I’ll brand “premises from which they reason.”

@bliff: “Commenters spend time calling me names, yet never really argue their point why they think I’m wrong. Apparently, everything I say is so outrageous, that it is obviously wrong.”

Yes, it is wrong and false indeed. But they call you names because you do not seem to understand that you have been answered ad questioned, bit like a brain dead or shall we say chaööenged person.

@everybody else: You notice how spliff, sorry bliff, here does the same as every other racist who happens to pop up here: he invents the US history just like that! It really is astonishing, like, “nobody notices when I make up these stories”. Wow. I am really really amused.

I have been thinking about this all week – I work at a youth library so I know a lot of kids this age who have everything ahead of them who have so many things to accomplish in their lives. This family has been robbed of seeing all that Trayvon was going to become. Nothing is going to give that back to them.

I’m not sure how George Zimmerman hasn’t been arrested yet when it seems clear that he made all the choices in this scenario, from coming to the conclusion that a boy walking through a neighborhood was suspicious, to disregarding the 911 operator’s instructions, to getting out of his car armed and pulling the trigger. I think that his prior behavior and his possession of a gun speaks to his looking for a reason to use it, and if he isn’t brought to justice, he’ll feel justified in continuing with this kind of vigilante behavior.

It may be futile, but I am hoping that if enough people see this story and are vocal about how wrong this situation is, that it will start the wheels turning toward creating a more just legal system and making things a little safer for all the kids out there who should be safe when they walk to the store.

It is the privilege of whiteness that turns Bliff into a mental and moral retard. He can not and will not understand our point of view because it doesn’t agree with his own, and he doesn’t consider us as worthy of the same respect as him because we’re simply not human enough. After all, he claims he’s a race-realist and they all think black people are broken models of the human equation while twisting history to suit their needs.

and by the way my cousin is mentally retarded. I don’t think race haters could hold a candle to how sweet she is. But “when does brothawolf make hateful and ignorant comments?……” if yous took your heads out of where the sun doesn’t shine you would see what I see…… just look above this comment. “white people are moral retards”

I see your answer now, though I still have a hard time believing you. You may be one of those people that type one thing while thinking another. Your blog makes your comments about seeing people as individuals and personal responsibility suspect. I’m just saying.

Fair enough. I can see how a reasonable person would think that. I can only say that just as you believe people are prejudiced against blacks and devalue them I believe some people think similarly of whites. I think we’re both right because some people look only at crime and think blacks are savages. While others look only at slavery and think whites are evil. You have to admit — both opinions get expressed quite a bit on the net.

I realize not everyone will agree with or even like some of my posts because I write about controversial topics. But I’d like you to read a couple from last year. Some people are going to see the topics and automatically dismiss them and me. But I’d like you to read them anyway and ask yourself if that’s the kind of thing someone would write if they were trying to incite prejudice against others.

“What are the facts? Again and again and again – what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history” – what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!”
― Robert A. Heinlein

Okay folks enough BS get down to brass tacks and please don’t make claims that you can not support and back up with numbers. Don’t expect me to believe in the invisible, the fairy god mother or politicians promises unless you can give me the numbers.

I’m done as well. I’m beyond frustrated and vexed by these comments that are constantly trying to defend the murder of a black child. Of course, certain people don’t consider him a child.

Dave is now trying desperately to put words in my mouth getting me to feel sorry for the poor, innocent, white people. Of course, he will deny it, but at this time, I don’t care anymore. I just don’t care.

And now Destructure sent me links pertaining to crimes committed by blacks in an attempt not to prove he’s not trying to incite prejudice towards others.

I will say this. Maybe I am taking this personally and that’s because Treyvon, Ramarley, Sean, Oscar, Emmett, Aiyana, and any other black person murdered by white police and civilians could easily be any of us or even our family members. That is part of the reality of being black in America. I doubt that you have even the slightest clue how that weighs heavily on our hearts.

Here’s something Destructure, Dave, Bliff, and Randy fail to understand. Issues like this SCARE US AND HURT US. It’s a glaring reminder how much our lives are worth in this country. It tells us that our lives don’t amount to a hill of beans in a white man’s world.

There is nothing Abagond, Truthbetold, Ace, Darqbeauty, Sam, JT, Demerera, Anglesanddimensions, or anyone else could tell you why your brand of thinking is not only wrong but inhuman. You prefer to remain brainwashed. You prefer to look down on us whether you openly admit it or not. You prefer to see us as whiners whether you’ve said so or not. You see it’s bad enough that the murder of black people is so common in this so-called land of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, but to hear you try and justify this latest case indicates you don’t give a damn about black people because they’re black. You can hide behind your race realism, your conservative ideologies, your erroneous knowledge of history, your intellectual mutterings, your scientific race theories, and your false since of compassion (feeling sorry for the murder, but still defend the murderer) all you want, but at the end of the day, you don’t care about us and you don’t care about the life of Trayvon Martin.

Trayvon wasn’t the thug in this case. Zimmerman was, and seeing as how you support him for all kinds of reasons you can think of, that makes you thugs as well. You don’t care about the humanity of a child with a darker skin color for just that reason because you’ve forsaken your since of humanity because you prefer to be white than human. That’s why your here unloading your dribble.

So, go ahead and tell me how wrong we are–again. Tell us how hateful we are against whites–again. Imply how we should feel and think the same way as you do about this issue and argue why we shouldn’t disagree with you–again. Continue on proven to us how far gone your mind and your heart really is.

As bad as murder and killings are, there’s a ton of other “legal” violence in the form of shifting, subtle racism that targets black people. Racism isn’t a mistake or accident that dropped in out of nowhere. It’s been designed and purposely perpetrated for 500 years to harm one group for the benefit and expense for another – because a few insatiably greedy white men at the top of the heap designed it so that your REAL(ist) eyes are focused on us “inferior” blacks while the real crooks are taking all of YOU to the cleaners.

This is why our POV is the most important POV.
The problem is that you folks are just too drunk on your supposed superiority to hear and believe what’s been so well laid out for you to see – but somehow can’t – because lesser and darker humans are somehow simply not credible — according to you!

The great divide that’s going on here is a microcosm of how blacks and whites generally see and react to RACISM all across Amerikkka. It does not bode well for a nation that promotes liberty and such, but can’t live up to it.

brothawolf ,……………………..Your one sided mindset is amazing at this point it’s so bad. I originally commented agreeing with your link to the witness that came out to the news, and tried to get you not to take it out on all white people, because you get SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO mad when that happens the other way around. It makes you the ultimate hypocritical anti-racist that I ever came across. Then you went on a rant and put words in my mouth, I may have done similar to you but you wear your anti-white views on your sleeve so it is very easy to read between the lines with you. I was offended at the retard comment not just because of the fact that you directed it at “whiteness” but because I grew up with a severely mentally retarded cousin. Now only did they think she wouldn’t talk”which she does” they thought she would never walk (she runs). ………..But your disdain for me goes to a place where you can’t put that aside and have a sense of decency yourself to see where I am coming from there. It’s because she’s very dear to my heart…. Not because of your deranged answer that you came up FOR me.

and brothawolf retard to me the way you used it shows you have problems . You should just go all the way and remove the “d” at the end and replace it with a “t” you are on a roll lately first “white$boUoy” then “retard” says you have some growing up to do and maybe you should just listen for awhile.

Do you know why terrorsim is the most frightening factor of American life? It’s because; Terrorism is indiscreminant.

Trayvon shouldn’t have been patronizing: Skittles, Arizona, Iced-Tea, white supremacist business, or even segregation, for that matter – Trayvon was a lost black person.

Either white supremacy is the bank you love to hate, or white supremacy must be abolished. Make a decision. Keep funding ther agendas and watch yourselves drop like flies.

Trayvon represents the walking dead. A hopeless, romantic ideology at it’s least and a willful capitalist consumer at best.

I despise what has occured to Trayvon’s family by his lost, but until blacks recognize how stupid it is to serve two masters: one of the United States and one of natural humanity, these type of events will continue to transpire.

When some foriegn radical decides to execute a load of Americans, I bet he/she is not thinking – “Let’s avoid the Blacks”.

Blacks in America should avoid the White Man’s home seeking chickens by absolving themselves of the White man’s paper trails.

I mean, follow the money – and don’t be at the end of the rainbow when it comes time for audit.

now ….. let’s get back to the topic at hand please. Anymore developments?

From the police of the prosecution? No, not yet, but the mayor of Sanford made a promise in a speech that he would personally investigate and if necessarily use his own money to do so. (Click on the video below which describes a Church gathering…) Not sure how that will play out.

“Thanks for the feedback. I have learnt from my 1 week on this blog that blacks see everything from their own personal, self-centered viewpoint. No other POV need apply.”

Strawman.

One that was formed out of predictable white stupidity from a person who chose to ignore the fact that there are non-black folks on this blog who share the same point of view AS the black commentators. Which would mean that the point of view you’re talking about isn’t exclusive to blacks. On the flipside the only ones who share your point of view are a small number of base born white people. Talk about a personality projection.

invents the US history just like that. Really! Wow! Do you have an alternative view. Please share.”

Well, it is called history, you know, history. Not “I’m a super american whiteman and I made all history” history.

Your history is as twisted and imagined as your science in your racism, actually they are the one and the same. You have no clue what the history of your own country is. You repeat old racist fairytales and invent few details as you go along. You think that being a white american, perhaps the most ignorant creature walking on this earth right now, makes you somehow genious and all powerful, when in reality you are a sad sight morally and intellectually for a white man.

In your writings here one can see all the ills that have driven USA down the toilet in the past few decades. The ignorance, the self smugness, self satifaction, lying, lack of any morals, delusions of grandieur etc. No wonder that white americans can no longer get a single rocket in the space, let alone send a man on the Moon.

It is you what is wrong in USA, guys like you. You are the ones who made it possible for the big banks and business rape your national wealth, you are the ones who send tens of thousands of american kids to die in another futile war across the seas, you are the ones who are twisting justice and police from service that protects to armed thugs that kill and opress.

But you can not see it. You do not understand it. Why? Because you were brought up for that. You were brainwashed from the day you were born. And you have eaten all the crap you been fed since the day you could see, hear and learn. You are the product of those white men who need suckers like you, who need usefull idiots (just like Lenin needed guys like you in 1917 onwards) to do their bidding and support the system that benefits mainly them. Not you. You get what ever drops from their table.

You see all those white powerful rich men and believe that you and they are the same. That you are a success because you happen to be white. You believe that they like you and look after you. Just like they want you to believe. And you do believe, because the Truth would be too painful. It would make you feel weak and replacable, unsignificant, just the way you are in reality. The Truth would make you see that the land and country, the Nation you believe in, does not exist in reality.

Truth would force you to see the real world and that is what you are so scared of. That is why you choose to live in fantasy, just like in Matrix.

One that was formed out of predictable white stupidity from a person who chose to ignore the fact that there are non-black folks on this blog who share the same point of view AS the black commentators.

There are plenty of blacks who share the views of whites, too. So what? You just dismiss them as “uncle toms”.

There’s a difference between the Martin case and the case mentioned in your link-Martin was alone and non-combative, Cicciaro (the white teen) was in a group of teenagers and yelling about killing the son and raping the wife of his shooter. Also, John White (the white teen’s killer) was 57, average sized and retired due to disability; in comparison, George Zimmerman was 28, healthy and outweighed his victim by 100 pounds.

You’ve got the information backwards. The rape threats were sent from Aaron White’s MySpace account, not Cicciaro. Regardless, for the sake of argument let’s say Trayvon threatened to kill Zimmerman and rape his wife. Do you think that would justify Zimmerman shooting him?

did anyone see the Soledad O’brien interview with Jeff Toobin? He said that the police had no reason to arrest Zimmerman, because he wasn’t a flight risk. Of course he is not a flight risk cause he knows he is not going to jail!!!! I mean this is a CNN legal analyst, I am dissapointed in Soledad for letting this idiot say that crap. I mean she host Black in America every year (which I don’t understand) and yet she just sitting there smiling at this idiot. While he justify the cops letting this guy go. Just like his father said if the shoe was on the other foot Trayvon would still be in Jail, I assumed because he would be a flight risk.

I found this site at the beginning of the month and everything Abagond post is true. This case proves everything you write about. I wish Roland Martin was there he would have corrected him on his ignorance. Not a flight risk he murdered a KID!!!!

I see the comments and interactions on here have degenerated in the usual and unfortunately predictable pattern. The usual implications that the ‘victim’ has a nefarious past, thereby implicitly justifying why a grown man would shoot him!!!!!!

Initially, we were all taking the post at face value and whilst I realise that the information was quite scant, more information has been added and yet still the same old crap is being regurgitated on here to support and rationalise this murder. A young life has been lost unecessarily.

I dont care whether he was a bit of a shit or if he favoured a certain way of dressing or whatever after all, what teen doesnt follow and adopt things that either their peers or celebrities are wearing/doing, until they start to mature into adulthood and find themselves. I even said as much about the girls on the Racist White teens Rant before anyone can accuse me of having ‘double standards’ – heaven forbid!

What matters is this, there appears to be nothing that he did that suggests that in this particular place at this particular time, this individual did not deserve to be shot dead.

BrothaWolf, exactly why is your POV the only one, or the most important one?

Because it makes sense.

Thanks for the feedback. I have learnt from my 1 week on this blog that blacks see everything from their own personal, self-centered viewpoint. No other POV need apply.

What I have learned during the one week you are here is that you are as dense as a brick. I love being self-centred as it permits me to comfortably mock jackanapes such as yourself. Have a nice day dear.

‘Kay… but I’ve never been accused of being “psuedo”- anything.

How about pseudo-stupid, then?

You just dismiss them as “uncle toms”.

I dismiss them as Stepinfetchit types! The type of negroes you love sah!

Perhaps you could’ve just answered to my statement on the slavery question. You could put it on the Open Thread. Apparently, you don’t know American History either, just like anglesanddimensions who also couldn’t come up with a rebuttal to my point.

You had some nasty personal attacks on me that were unnecessary and unwarranted……

You have no clue what the history of your own country is. How would you know. You didn’t even try to rebut my point. You don’t know what I know about the USA>

white American, perhaps the most ignorant creature walking on this earth Nasty, nasty, nasty. You sounded like an anti-American foreigner before, now I know for sure.

sad sight morally and intellectually Personal attack.

It is you what is wrong in USA, guys like you How would you know? You’re just blabbering.

You are the ones who made it possible for (wars, banks, police, bad hair, new coke, the Titantic, Ides of March, Monday mornings, rainy days, etc)

you can not see it. Probably because it doesn’t exist. Like Abagond’s Emperor’s New Clothes of Racism – I don’t see it because it doesn’t exist.

you were brought up for that…You were brainwashed from the day you were born….usefull idiots You know an awful lot about me from way over there in Finland. Have we ever met??

the Truth would be too painful. It would make you feel weak I feel sick when I see your posts. Is it the same thing??

“You’ve got the information backwards. The rape threats were sent from Aaron White’s MySpace account, not Cicciaro. Regardless, for the sake of argument let’s say Trayvon threatened to kill Zimmerman and rape his wife. Do you think that would justify Zimmerman shooting him?”
@destructure:
Interesting that you mention John White, because I was thinking of the same case and how Mr. White was arrested immediately, even though a gang of drunken white youths with a baseball bat in their car came to Mr. White’s house ,threatening to kill his son,Aaron White, and rape Mrs. White. Even at trial ,Cicciaro’s family threatened Mr. Whites son’s life. Also, if I remember correctly, the rape threats you mention were not Aaron’s myspace account, it was an internet hoax created by Cicciaro’s friend, who, btw, was never even charged with a crime.
Lastly, the racial nature of the case with Trayvon Martin is that Mr. Zimmerman has not even been charged with a crime by the local police, even though a young black youth doing nothing but buying candy and soda was shot in the chest for no apparent reason. My understanding is that Zimmerman is latino.

“In December 2005, two friends of Aaron’s — posing as Aaron in an Internet chat room as a prank — made sexual threats against a local girl named Jennifer Martin.

“It said something along the lines of, ‘Let’s get to Jennifer Martin’s house and rape her,'” recalled Jennifer, who was 15 at the time. “It scared me a lot. It terrified me.”

Aaron never told Jennifer that he wasn’t involved in the prank, although he told several others, including Jennifer’s boyfriend, that he’d never written anything about her.”

By the following summer, Aaron, 19, thought the incident with Jennifer had been long forgotten. But on the night of August 9, he was invited to a birthday party for Jennifer’s brother Craig at the Martin home. But Jennifer says she was still unaware that Aaron was not the one who had threatened her. “I did not expect to see Aaron White at all,” she said. “When he walked in my back door it just sent chills up my spine.”

I think certain groups of whites have kicked into their survival instinct: they think that now we have a Black president, that we are a threat to their supremacy. THis is really why they try to deny Black humanity. Because in their dichotomous mindset, they think it has to be either they versus. us. It’s an incredibly sad and POLLUTED view of the world. Hopefully, someone clears their shades at some points so they can see past all of that hateful POLLUTION.

I’ve noticed that too. Any movement that brings us up is automatically thought to be a threat to bring them down. I’ve always found this very telling when it comes to dissecting the collective mindset. They assume that for us to rise, they must fall. Even though we have never done anything that has collectively threatened them. It is an unconscious acknowledgement of their wrongs. They are so worried about being “gotten back” that they assume we are out to get them. Even though history has proven who are the real aggressors.

In their mindset there is only one spotlight and they must own it. It is a matter of control. As a white person i see and know this. Whites try to control everything when they can’t. They are completely risk averse, because of the fact that they have everyone elses riches to lose (e.g. whites grew fat from the exploitation of POC for centuries).

It is a cognitive disease that unfortunately must be constantly confronted. As i have learned here at Abagond’s with wonderful posters like you all (well, not “all” – there are some stinkers like Doug1 etc.).

I hope that people see through all of that POLLUTION; it is harming not only their freedom to think but their energy and their increased negativity. Not even mentioning the victims of their hate. For which, there are many.

Blacks and Whites are fundamentally different I agree. But only in the way that their cultures predetermines. In every physiological way that matters, we are the same. Nuts and bolts.

When people try to argue otherwise, they are doing out of a destructive energy – that which seems to be activated because they view it as their own destruction or the destruction of the other.

There are all sorts of symbols this dialogue is constantly working with. Many are selectively blind to these symbols.

That “zero-sum” schism is an amazing eye opening look into the psychology of whiteness. Whiteness (and it’s “realists”) cannot simply just – be. They must exist, can only exist by standing on the necks, shoulders, heads, hearts of others.
By any means necessary – at their disposal.

Level playing field? Not if they can help it!
The racist realists aka tea-baggers really yearn for those good old days – when they could freely say their thoughts without concern for the PC police squelching their RIGHTS to free speech, and their true selves.

Those wonderful days of yore, when blacks were shot, cut, or lynched, or whipped for the slightest perceived infraction… to keep those ungrateful Negroes from becoming too uppity, and kept in check in THEIR SUBORDINATE places.

Nowadays we notice that whenever the scary daunting specter of OPPORTUNITY & PROGRESS avails itself to us, like say the election of a black president, they run to buy even MORE guns and ammo, build bunkers, stock and bury non-perishable goods, opening up white “racists realist” (sic) clubs, organizations at new record breaking numbers while pinning words like “reverse racists” on black folks as they whine about reverse discrimination. Yup. Zero Sum is the game.

If we advance one step towards them, they demand 2 or three steps in return. White America will never permit blacks to stand shoulder to shoulder with them.
Professor Bell was right..

In reality, Bizzaro America is assuredly one weird strange and whacky backwater place where the murder of black people continues unabated, without collective remorse or regret, just as it always has. Just business as usual.

@bliff: What question? You have just repeated same old racist myths and lies here. You think you are the first one??

As for knowing about USA, surprise surprise!!! I have lived there twice for some years. I have met all kinds of americans. I have even met intelligent white americans, the kind of people your kind hates and wants to lock up or drive out or something. I guess you guys would call them communists, lefties, bleeding heart liberals, jews, traitors, betrayers, unamericans, antiamericans etc. I know they are artists, writers, reporters, professores etc.

I have also met americans just like you. Enuff said.

BUT I have also met quite a few black americans. I have met some native americans. I propably spent more time with black americans and native americans than you have. As their guest and yes, even as their friend, dare I say.

Now for a white racist american like yourself that may sound amazing and utopian, but that is life outside racist America.

Um… gee. I can hardly wait to hear how some white Americans are going to spin the hows and whys the police were so caring and benevolent towards the yet to be arrested Mr. Zimmerman.

What would motivate police to keep the tapes under wraps and not arrest a white man (Zimmerman) for MURDERING an unarmed black youth?

Imagine, if you will, what the likely outcome of this murder would’ve been if these tapes didn’t exist, or were “lost” or “stolen” as evidence incriminating certain people has a way of being covered up or disappeared.

We are seeing direct first hand evidence of how the criminal injustice system operates in racist AmeriKKKa.

So again, why were police sitting on incriminating evidence for 21 days?
Were they planning on losing these tapes?
And why haven’t they arrested Zimmerman?

“Police Chief Bill Lee didn’t want to comment on the release of the recordings on Friday but has said he conducted a fair investigation. Earlier in the week, he said there wasn’t enough evidence to arrest Zimmerman.”

Ditto, chica. My heart is sore as well, I really feel this one because my youngest is a teenager, I look at his baby face and I can also see Trayvon, who ran away from Zimmerman like he was supposed to…I feel for these parents.

I’ve been to Sanford, it’s a beautiful, small town that I had always been fond of…now my memories will be tainted by this BS by the police.

for me, this issue is not even about black or white….it’s about injustice.

Living in Florida, I don’t expect much from the police but Sanford PD just took it to a new “Low”

I just listened to all the 911 tapes Linda linked. She thinks they make Zimmerman sound guilty but I think she’s mistaken. I think they may actually support Zimmerman. I’m not going into a long explanation because no one would accept it anyway. All I can say is that it’s obvious what happened from the 911 tapes and it’s the opposite of what some people are claiming. Wait for the report and you’ll see.

I predict those proven wrong will just say its a “racist conspiracy”. Hopefully, there will be a handful of sane people who realize their prejudice led them to an incorrect conclusion and reconsider some of their views and opinions. As for me, I’ve speculated on the situation but I’ve always advocated with-holding judgement until after the evidence was released.

I predict those proven wrong will just say its a “racist conspiracy”. Hopefully, there will be a handful of sane people who realize their prejudice led them to an incorrect conclusion and reconsider some of their views and opinions. As for me, I’ve speculated on the situation but I’ve always advocated with-holding judgement until after the evidence was released.

@ destructure,

You are contradicting yourself throughout this post. You think he is innocent based on incriminating evidence and yet you want everyone to sustain judgement on poor Mr. Zimmerman.

I’ve got a grip on reality. At no time have I said he was definitely innocent or guilty. I’m entitled to have an opinion on the available evidence. But I’ve always made it clear that anything I say before the report is released is pure speculation. Please have enough sense to wait for the report before condemning someone. Thank you.

“destructure
I just listened to all the 911 tapes Linda linked. She thinks they make Zimmerman sound guilty but I think she’s mistaken. I think they may actually support Zimmerman. I’m not going into a long explanation because no one would accept it anyway.”

I don’t “think” anything, like you, I have ears to hear, and on the tape someone is screaming, “help me” SAME person starts to scream “no…don’t” right before the gunshot, then same person starts screaming again, second gunshot, screaming stops….I highly doubt Zimmerman was screaming the ENTIRE time while he was pulling the trigger–twice.

I really don’t want to debate with you on this because this crime is not OPEN to debate…a CHILD is dead and no one has been arrested in order to prove self defense in a court of law.

How in the world would a 140lb boy have a 240lb armed man at his mercy for him to be yelling like that?

I don’t know because that information hasn’t been released. But since you asked me to speculate maybe Trayvor was hitting him with something. Zimmerman’s face and head were bloody so that would be consistent.

=========================

@Linda

I highly doubt Zimmerman was screaming the ENTIRE time while he was pulling the trigger–twice.

I find it hard to believe that armed person A, who outweighs unarmed person B by at least 100lbs, would be the one screaming “help me!” I can understand how an unarmed teen would run from a large, strange man following him, especially at night.

If Zimmerman is indicted, I can’t wait to hear what defense his attorney will use. “Self defense” seems like such a joke. .

There’s an old saying, “Ain’t nobody bigger than a stick.” I’m not saying Trayvor had a stick. But that’s my point. Until they release all the details there’s no way for us to know exactly what happened. But there are some people who want to claim they know absolutely, positively, 100% that Zimmerman is a MURDERER! without even waiting for the report. Now, I’m sure you think he’s guilty. But, even if you’re right, isn’t it reasonable to at least wait for the report to be released before condemning him?

destructure,
“I never said there wasn’t. I said Trayvor was only shot once. Not that it makes any difference. If its justified to fire one round then it’s justified to empty the magazine.”

Linda says,

Second shot was not necessary…First shot should have been Zimmermans warning shot in order to end any aggression (which worked since the Kid started begging for his life)…

I live close to Everglades, we only have to shoot once to scare off wild life…

point is, your statement would have legal merit –in a courthouse where the victim and the accused’s lawyers get to argue their case in front of a jury who then decides which Florida laws get applied to the defendants arguments of innocence.

but because Sanford PD decided to be judge/jury at a scene of a shooting, and have made no arrests…discussing Zimmermans options according to the law is a moot point…

It’s my understanding that the police and/or prosecutor are usually the ones who determine whether there is sufficient evidence to make an arrest. They make that decision based on the same laws at work in the courtroom. I don’t think they should necessarily limit arrests to only those that would be slam dunks in a court. But they probably shouldn’t arrest people for which there is insufficient evidence to convict.

I’m a bit fuzzy on the warning shot vs begging for his life angle so I won’t debate that point. However, if he fired a warning shot doesn’t that suggest it wasn’t Zimmerman’s intention to “murder” Trayvor? I don’t know of too many murderers who would fire a warning shot.

How in the world would a 140lb boy have a 240lb armed man at his mercy for him to be yelling like that?”

Linda says,

You know what, Abagond…for me, it’s not about size difference or race…it’s about the INAPPROPRIATE behavior of this Adult who had NO authority to engage this child– a child that he did not know…

it’s about the fact that a STRANGE Adult approaches a child/teen he doesn’t know…in Florida, it seems like every pervert and child molestor moves here…

this is one danger that is taken seriously in this State…any parent who doesn’t teach their child about “Stranger danger” is negligent…

I told my children–never walk alone but if you have to “don’t talk to strange Adults. If a stranger calls to you from a vehicle “keep walking”, if stranger gets out their vehicle, “run”…if they catch you, “fight like hell to get away and scream for help”

From the reports already out there, it seems Trayvon did everything he was supposed to…he saw a stranger following him and he ran…according to Zimmerman himself (911 tapes) he chased this child so he could not get away…

I am angry about this because even if Zimmerman did not mean to kill the child, Zimmerman should be defending himself from a jail cell….he did not give Trayvon any options when he shot him dead.

No. I don’t identify with Zimmerman. I don’t identify with Trayvon. I don’t identify with anyone. The constitution guarantees everyone due process. And I don’t like that someone would be condemned before all the facts are known. I particularly don’t like the emotional theatrics. Trayvon’s parents are understandable. They’ve lost their son. But all these others stepping up to march and protest and rabble rouse and whatnot is unacceptable. I also find it unacceptable that people keep trying to play up this “child” angle as if he’s a 6 yr old. He was almost 18. He was a varsity football player for Pete’s sake. He was old enough to drive and shave.

My 16 year year old drives (legal age in Florida) but that doesn’t make him an Adult that make his own decisions.

Fact is Trayvon just turned 17 two weeks before being killed, he did not have the legal right to vote, he was a minor whose parents were legally responsible for him…Even if he was 18, that magical number 18 does not make an eighTEEN year old into a mature Adult…as you know, it takes time to mature and grow into a responsible Adult…

“I particularly don’t like the emotional theatrics.”

“emotional theatrics” helped to found “this great nation” —the original “tea partiers” in Boston were pretty emotional when they dumped the tea into the ocean thus assisting the escalation of the American Revolution. Injustice was presumed back then, Injustice being done now.

Do you realize that any of the Black males on this site could LOGICALLY fear being assasinated by the American police force? That this is the response that the American police force have inspired in the Black population based on generations of bigotted and violent offences? That they are living in a police-state?

This is not emotional theatrics as you would like to see it. This is everyday reality.

Your constitutionally principle approach should be laughed at.

What does a principled approach look like when the right to live safely and freely is trumped by a bigot’s right to due process.

Meanwhile, you are not even on the jury.

I think you principled approach is a transparent veil. You could care less about Trayvon or those other innocents murdered by Whites authority.

Because you’d rather be on the side of authority than morally consistent.

@destructure:
If everyone has a right to due process as you say, wouldn’t it be reasonable to think that there is enough evidence to at least arrest Zimmerman and let the courts decide guilt or innocence? You seem to be missing the point that Zimmerman is free, not facing charges and Martins family is not being afforded the due process of at least an arrest and court proceeding to determine guilt or not-guilty.

On another note, I have had problems with comments, so I tried to use an old blog and even that doesn’t seem to work correctly.

Its interesting,if thats the word for it, how even mixed racial people like Zimmerman who are mostly white still get the benefit of white priviledge when it comes to the police and actions taken against black people.

If they had seen him driving down the road they might have pulled him over, searched his car and interrograted him due to the possibility of having drugs or being an illegal doing to being a “mexican”.

Do you realize that any of the Black males on this site could LOGICALLY fear being assasinated by the American police force? That this is the response that the American police force have inspired in the Black population based on generations of bigotted and violent offences?

Absolutely. I have a rational fear of being abused by the police as well. In fact, I have been. Are you, however, aware that although blacks make up a disproportionate number of those shot by police they also make up a staggering 40% of those who shoot police? I’m going to go out on a limb and say the two are probably connected.

==========================

@vanishingpoint

If everyone has a right to due process as you say, wouldn’t it be reasonable to think that there is enough evidence to at least arrest Zimmerman and let the courts decide guilt or innocence? You seem to be missing the point that Zimmerman is free, not facing charges and Martins family is not being afforded the due process of at least an arrest and court proceeding to determine guilt or not-guilty.

I don’t know whether there is enough evidence to arrest Zimmerman or not. Because they haven’t released the report yet. However, the police have been working with the local prosecutor and he says there’s not. They’ve forwarded a copy of the investigation to the state’s attorney and, so far, he hasn’t indicated there is enough evidence to arrest. They’ve even invited the US Attorney General, Eric Holder, to review the report. For your information, Eric Holder was appointed by Obama and he’s black. So it’s unlikely there is any malfeasance on the part of the Sanford police department.

I’m not, however, missing the point. The point is that you can’t arrest someone for a crime without sufficient evidence. You may recall the Duke Lacrosse debacle in which the lead prosecutor, Mike Nifong, was removed from office, charged with ethics violations, disbarred, sued, convicted and sent to jail for doing that. So, no, you can not arrest and charge someone with a crime without sufficient evidence.

==========================

@Linda: You were calling him a “child” in a deliberate attempt to prejudice this discussion. Everyone knows it. You’re better off letting this one go.

“And I don’t like that someone would be condemned before all the facts are known. I particularly don’t like the emotional theatrics. … But all these others stepping up to march and protest and rabble rouse and whatnot is unacceptable.”

*********************************

Apparently, you find much of American history unacceptable then. I might even guess (sic) that you find the actions of racist whites quite unacceptable also.

You do realize that white people instigated the vast majority of violence in America, right? And that the histrionics displayed by many here is a more than understandable reaction to the systemic and continual killing of unarmed black people under the cloak of the legal system?

I don’t know whether there is enough evidence to arrest Zimmerman or not.
@destructure:
Yes, you still are missing the point. Zimmerman wasn’t even arrested for failure to obey a police officer. Somehow I get the feeling that you enjoy antagonizing people more than facing actual facts.

It doesn’t matter what dictionary you use. The law distinguishes between a “child” and a “minor”. You have a hard time being wrong don’t you? That’s okay. I have a hard time being wrong, too. Fortunately, I’m not.

Yeah, I love antagonizing people… with facts. Case in point, Zimmerman was in fact arrested for “resisting arrest with violence and battery on a law enforcement officer”. The charges were dropped because there was insufficient evidence to prosecute. Perhaps we should wait and see if there is sufficient evidence to prosecute before we call for his arrest in this case?

give it up…you can nitpick semantics all day…doesn’t change the fact that you are defending Zimmerman, who is the only Adult in this scenerio and as an adult, he had no authority to engage the child/teen/minor that he shot.

@destructure,
You prove my point, Zimmerman was not arrested in the case of Trayvon Martin, for failure to obey the instructions of a police officer, when he was told to wait for the police and instead followed and had a confrontation with Trayvon Martin. You are clearly unfocused and I can no longer stand another minute of conversation with your illogical retorts.

I think it’s awfully revealing that you argue in legal semantics all day instead of facing the clear and objective tragedy of the situation.

Imagine, if a muslim individual said “I am thankful for 9/11.”

Would that make the statement palatable?

What if he justified it with his own legal, religious, or national texts.

Would that make it okay?

Regardless of what your lawyer instincts are telling you about “evidence” legal definitions, freedom of due process etc. there is something particularly abhorrent about arguing with people about a very young person being murdered.

Do you find that repellant at all? Or is the callous that has grown in your heart, given you the ability to argue like we were arguing about the weather tomorrow?

This one, and the one with Oscar Grant are haunting me. I dream that I am in a subway, and, am seeing Oscar get shot. I dreamed about this current one last night. There was also a similar one at one of the Florida jails. A young man, 20 years old, was serving a 20 year sentence for a $10.00 rock. He was handcuffed, and a female guard did not like the way he was looking at her. She slapped him in the face; he pushed her. She got three guards to beat him to death, while handcuffed. : (

There is something deeply afflicted and wrong with these people. I am losing hope for them day by day. The comments and things said show an astounding lack of empathy. Arguing over the semantics of age when a young person gets murdered. Like it makes it any less horrendous. And the chicken question. WTF was that about? I’m so over them. They have have shown their true colors through out history. I don’t know why people believe that they have changed. Their natures have just become more subversive. Racists sitting here arguing about the semantics of the life of a dead child. It’s enough to make me want to vomit.

If I’m recalling correctly, I think Zek claimed that I said that white people are demonic…and then failed to find where I said that. But yes, as far as I’m concerned, whiteness is very demonic!

Implicit Bias, as you know, causes MANY/MOST white people to imagine, see and hear things regarding black people that aren’t there/true – and not see, etc the things that are.

And now we’re watching this I/B phenomenon being played out center stage before our eyes, and ears – especially in regards to WHOSE SCREAMS and pleas for help are heard when the killing occurred on those recently released audio tapes.

White EXPECTATIONS are literally killing black people in America – while simultaneously giving white people exceptional privileges and excessive portions of the benefit of the doubt. White folks get a pass, black people go to prison.

Whites routinely get away with murdering black folks. Meanwhile, at least 1 out of nine black people are falsely incarcerated for crimes they didn’t do!

This is a very sad tragedy. George Zimmerman should be locked up and the key thrown away. Where does he thinks he lives, in the wild west cowboy days where you shoot first and ask questions later? This guy acted like a self-appointment police officer, following the boy, getting out of his car and going after him. The police dispatcher clearly told him he need not follow him.

Is there a death penalty in Florida? I hate to see this guy loose on the streets after what he did. If the prosecutors finally smarten up and file charges, I’d hate to see tax dollars wasted on a cushy life stay in jail. Give him the death penalty. He knew full well what he was doing, he wrongly shot that boy.

By the way, I am white. It’s sad in this day and age there are people who think like Zimmerman. Why was he allowed to own a gun? Way too many firearms in the wrong hands in this country. This is what happens. Very sad. My prayers are with Trayvon’s spirit and the family and friends he left behind. Blessings to all.

I’m not thankful for the death of Trayvon Martin. I think it’s tragic regardless of circumstance.

there is something particularly abhorrent about arguing with people about a very young person being murdered.

I think there is something particularly abhorrent about condemning someone without due process. History is filled with people all over the world who have done that. Rather than taking time for a sober review of the evidence they simply grab someone and stone them or burn them or hang them or crucify them. I don’t want to go back to that. Justice doesn’t come from grief or anger or vengeance. We have to remove emotion from the justice system.

======================

abagond

No. Because I don’t dislike people over things for which they’re not personally responsible. What about you?

I think there is something particularly abhorrent about condemning someone without due process. History is filled with people all over the world who have done that. Rather than taking time for a sober review of the evidence they simply grab someone and stone them or burn them or hang them or crucify them. I don’t want to go back to that. Justice doesn’t come from grief or anger or vengeance. We have to remove emotion from the justice system.

“”

@ destructure,

Which might qualify as a reasonable answer if you hadn’t been arguing this before Trayvon’s body is cold. You have said very little about Trayvon at all. You have said more than anything, support for Zimmerman, as if he is a long time friend.

More than that, you are not in the jury box. Why does the murder of a young person inspire an impartial, NO, DEFENSIVE position from you? If you gave a flying hoot about Trayvon you would be saying something more consolatory or empathetic.

But the truth of the matter is that it invokes very little empathy in you. Which is why we have your cold, legal analysis of a 17 year old young person being shot and killed by a white older male.

Several innocent black youths have been gunned down in the past few years in what appear to be racially motivated attacks. However, the assailants tend to be “Hispanic.” This doesn’t fit well with the “people of color” narrative so the cases don’t get that much attention on the national or international levels.

“You have said more than anything, support for Zimmerman, as if he is a long time friend.”

My initial comments clearly leaned towards manslaughter and 7-15 years in prison. I have no support for Zimmerman. What I support is Zimmerman’s right to due process.

More than that, you are not in the jury box. Why does the murder of a young person inspire an impartial, NO, DEFENSIVE position from you? If you gave a flying hoot about Trayvon you would be saying something more consolatory or empathetic.

You were right the first time — I’m impartial. It’s too bad you’re not. As for Trayvon, he’s dead. Empathy won’t change that. And I see no reason why I should express empathy to you.

But the truth of the matter is that it invokes very little empathy in you. Which is why we have your cold, legal analysis of a 17 year old young person being shot and killed by a white older male.

I’m a dispassionate person. That’s just my personality. I’ve noticed you’re desperate to classify Zimmerman as white even though his father has said they’re hispanic. Why is it so important to you that he be white?

Yes, it’s so great to be asked an inane and prejudiced question while you are grieving for your child. You’re a troll. Abagond is a saint for letting you post your callous drivel. Ugh. Just reading your words makes my skin crawl. You’re filth.

It’s difficult to conceive of any rational response to this situation other than outrage. My gut is that Zimmerman is a wannabe cop — we’ve all encountered these types, they’re worse than actual cops in many instances — with visions of vigilante justice and a mindset toward racial profiling. He confronts Trayvon but he’s too fat and no man enough to handle himself. Even if Florida’s “stand your ground” law gives Zimmerman a technical defense (I’m not familiar with that law), the response is outrage.

police lie #1 squeaky clean. surprise. permit = police buddy/wannabe. Trayvon was not required by law to “yeild ground”. a freak with a gun following a young kid=freak p.s. Sanford is/was klan friendly not that long ago the way i remember

My guess is; the reason there is no outrage is…..its not surprising enough to produce actual shock.

Its sad and depressing but to most white people even vaguely aware of how the world works…..something like this isn’t shocking, it isn’t surprising so its not going to produce outrage.

That and basically racism, even if they don’t like it, even if they don’t believe it should be that way, people who have been influenced by a racist society aren’t going to be able to react emotionally on the same level towards those they have been told the dogma that they aren’t as human as they would for those they have been told are fully human.

“No, according to the law a “child” is a person 14 years and under. A “child” should be distinguished from a “minor” who is anyone under 18 in almost all states.”

So in your opinion it is ok to shoot and kill anyone over 14 yrs old, particulary if they are wearing the wrong clothes and act up, or, lo behold, punch a grown up on the nose?

Following your logic it is ok for any sexual predator to rape and kill any white girl older than 14 because as an adult those girls should have known better, right? I mean, they should know what happens if you missbehave that way, just live this murdered kid should have known, according to you.

“I’ve noticed you’re desperate to classify Zimmerman as white even though his father has said they’re hispanic.”

So according to you latinos are not whites at this time? But some other time they are? You racust shiuld really get your stories together and decide which races are white and which are not.

So in your opinion it is ok to shoot and kill anyone over 14 yrs old, particulary if they are wearing the wrong clothes and act up, or, lo behold, punch a grown up on the nose?

I’ve heard of trying to put words in another’s mouth but your comment was ridiculous even for readers of this blog.

So according to you latinos are not whites at this time? But some other time they are? You racust shiuld really get your stories together and decide which races are white and which are not.

Ricky Martin is a white latino. Sammy Sosa is a black latino. If Zimmerman had won a boxing title and whites tried to claim him I have no doubt you would have argued against them. Similarly, Zimmerman looks no whiter than Mariah Carey but I’ve never heard blacks demand she be considered white. So I think your allegations of racism are hypocritical.

I think your continued and implied justification of racism is disgusting and your understanding of the complexities regarding the application of ‘race’ to the individual is that of a child in primary school but, there you go…

Anyway, back to the topic. Your posts on this thread want desperately to indict this adolescent but you lack the courage and if you are honest with yourself, the conviction to be able to do this. You must know how apppalling you would sound if you out and out said that, due to your own preconceived ideas about BP and BM in particular, you are reasonably convinced that this man MUST have shot the boy in self defence.

I can’t help but laugh at this. First you drummed up some fake outrage and accused Sam of putting words in your mouth, here…

“I’ve heard of trying to put words in another’s mouth but your comment was ridiculous even for readers of this blog.”

But then a moment later, you say this…

“If Zimmerman had won a boxing title and whites tried to claim him I have no doubt you would have argued against them.”

In regards to your comment about Mariah Carey and what black people consider her to be, that was intentionally stupid/dishonest of you. Blacks only began to make remarks on her race was, when she began to deny that she was black at all. Well until her next album was coming up, at least.

“So couldn’t Zimmerman get arrested for reckless endangerment or something?”

– That question V-4 is the same questions blacks have been asking for HUNDREDS of years as we’ve observed white people routinely get away with murdering millions of us. Then people that can’t seem to add 1 + 1 wonder why Africans/Blacks in America are the group most likely to have shootouts with police..

“Also does anyone know if they can do any thing to the 911 calls to sort out just whose voice it was calling for help?”

– Heh, one would think among today’s hi-tech audio/recording equipment there ARE voice recognition/measuring devices — but would the same people who didn’t want to release those audio tapes, or make an arrest, be genuinely interested in the pursuit of justice enough to employ such a device??

*****************

**Something smells very fishy regarding this case. I suspect something we don’t know about is being covered up.**

Then there’s our new troll, Destructure, insisting that due process should be allowed to work… because, well maybe it’s just NOT another open and shut case of an unarmed black person being killed, on purpose – again – by a white person.

At the rate (and way) due process seems to work in America in these types of case, Zimmerman could possibly wind up being elected the next President of the United States.

First you drummed up some fake outrage and accused Sam of putting words in your mouth, here…

Sam did put words in my mouth. He used my comments concerning the legal definitions of “child” and “minor” to imply I was condoning shooting anyone over the age of 14 for wearing the wrong clothes, acting up, etc. I never said that. By the way, I’m not outraged. I’m amused.

But then a moment later, you say this…

I gave my opinion of what I ~believe~ sam would have done under those circumstances. That’s not putting words in his mouth. At no point did I falsely attribute statements to him. Please read more carefully. Thank you.

Saying “you have no doubt” over what someone would do is nothing more than an accusation that is expressed in a more subtle manner. Try not to save as hard next time when you’re called out for being a complete hypocrite.

These murders of black people, men, boys women, in the states, have a ritualistic ‘feel’ to them. It seems that every three to five months something horrific is said about black people, or done to them. Sacrifices to the white supremacist god(s). Good for ratings too.

I see that a lot with a most murders of black men and women no matter who did them.

You see this with any crime perpetrated against black folk. If they talk about it they are ‘playing the victim’, or are being opportunistic. I have first hand experience with this.

“No. Because I don’t dislike people over things for which they’re not personally responsible. What about you?”

I hate people especially white racist such as yourself. Of course I can’t speak for everyone here! The white man has prevented me from winning the lottery many a time! Really, you are morally bankrupt if you cannot see the wrongness of this act. To nickel and dime and cherry pick reveals more about yourself more than an ‘opinion’ of this case. If that was a white kid who had gotten shot down like that, you and all your racist ilk or otherwise ‘ordinary Americans’, would be up in arms hollering for blood.

Actually, going by the back and forth between you two, it’s the exact same thing. I’ll explain it slowly for you. He asked you a question about what you would possibly believe in, and you accused him of possibly doing something that he would (most importantly in order to do this) have to believe in. The only difference is that you somehow aren’t putting words in his mouth because you did it in an @$$-backwards way.

Yeah yeah whatever. What are you going to say when it turns out to be a legitimate case of self defense? Are are you going to admit you were wrong? Or will you just call it a “racial conspiracy”?

Also, I’m immune to being called “racist”. I read abagond’s little post on the “r-word” and I agree with one thing he said — “It is in effect the n-word for white people.” I already knew that. But name-calling doesn’t bother me and never has. It doesn’t make me angry or upset. I just think it makes you sound stupid. And I get a kick out of it because every time one of you throws that out there I know two things. First, you’re undermining the word. And, second, you’re throwing a temper tantrum. And that’s funny.

@brothawolf: Yeap. Those guys do that all the time because, well, they wish to be civilized and can not say it out loud: “If I or any other grown up white man want to kill anyone, we must be allowed to do so, regardless…”

“What are you going to say when it turns out to be a legitimate case of self defense?”

If this case shows up in any court as a legitimate self defense it just shows how rotten the system is. If this kid had an uzi and mr Zimmermans car was full of holes and he himself was in instensive care, then it would be legitimate self defense. But, as it seems to be, this grown up man stalked a kid (never mind the color), followed him with a gun in his hand, and shot the kid dead.

Now you can say all you want how badly this kid dressed (I have teenage kids and I know how and they dress up sometimes), how he was not polite enough in his answers to mr Supercop Zimmerman, how rude he was, how he punched this man on the nose and what ever, the fact remains: a grown man followed and shot a kid dead just yeards from his fathers home.

You may not like his dad, you may hate his mom, you may hate the fact that this kid was black, but the fact remains: a grown up man shot a kid dead. There is no way around that simple fact. And since you seem to be hell bent to portray the killer as a victim of some sorts, make excuses and rationalize this murder, it is only natural to assume that you support child murderers.

I have not seen any statement by you where you say that it is wrong to kill children. Instead you claim that this child was not actually a child but a “minor” and thus, his murder was not that bad.

This is a trick. Which we all have seen used by mr Rumsfeldt when he rationalized the use of torture by americans. He said that instead of being enemies in war (which they were since USA was at war against those guys by any definition), opponents were “hostile combatants” etc, but not soldiers. This way the Geneva agreements did not protect them from being tortured by americans. The funny thing is that this arguing sidelined the real issue: is it ok for americans to use torture? Is it just fine to make young americans as sadistic torturers. According Bush administration, yes it is.

You see the similarity in your thinkin? You want to justify a child killing by any means. You do not condemn this murder. You do not quote the bible “Thou shall not kill”. Instead you claim that it is ok to kill a child if he wears wrong clothes, is over 14 yrs old, talks back to a grown up, punches a grown up in to the nose etc.

@ Oyan…I have two words. James Anderson. He was run over by a bunch of racist white kids in Mississippi last year. There is footage of his killers ramming the vehicle into his body at full force.

Then there’s the case of James Byrd in Jasper, Texas. He was chained to the back of a pickup truck and dragged to his death.

The murder of Yusef Hawkins in 1989…his only crime was being a Black kid in a racist white neighborhood. His death reminds me somewhat of Trayvon Martin.

Brandon McClelland…killed in the same manner as James Byrd.

Michael Griffith…died in 1986 while running away from white men who attacked him for being Black. He was struck by a car after being severely beaten. This occurred in Howard Beach.

Michael Donald…lynched at the age of 20 in 1981.

I know that some white people will cite black on white crimes like the case of Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom, which was definitely an unspeakable atrocity, but I’m trying to show that there is definitely a pattern of violence against Black men in this country.

Here you deny that a kid 17yrs old is a child. And previously you implied that this was not a murder but a justifiable homicide or self defence.

So you are saying that 17 year old is not a child and that his killing is ok because it is not murder. And since a child is not a child after 14 yrs, quoting your quote, you imply it is ok to kill a kid who is over 14.

And I am not even touching the race issue in your statements.

PLease, don’t be such a cry baby. You said what you said. Now stand by it.

Sorry Sam, of course Z. killed a child, ALMOST ALL STATES leaves the possibility that such is not the case in the state under consideration, and/or on the federal level, the website concerned fails to convince.

And previously you implied that this was not a murder but a justifiable homicide or self defence.”

Self defense isn’t murder. That’s also the law.

“So you are saying that 17 year old is not a child and that his killing is ok because it is not murder. And since a child is not a child after 14 yrs, quoting your quote, you imply it is ok to kill a kid who is over 14.”

Now, you’re changing your story. That’s not what you said in the previous comment. You claimed I said it was “ok to kill a child if he wears wrong clothes, is over 14 yrs old, talks back to a grown up, punches a grown up in to the nose etc.”

Show me one place where I said that. Show me one place where I said “it is ok to kill a child for either:

1 wearing the wrong clothes
2 talking back to a grown up
3 punching a grown up in the nose
4 or simply being over 14 yrs old.

Not one place have I said it was ok to kill anyone for any of those things.

From what I’ve read, it appears that the hurdle to arresting Zimmerman may reside in the (over)broad language of Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” law. This law, like similar laws in several other states, was enacted after much lobbying by the NRA. At the time it was passed, prosecutors nationwide decried it as a “legalized murder” law. There is a pattern of prosecutors deciding not to pursue charges for shootings in states with “Stand Your Ground” laws on their books where there is any evidence of self defense, even if the shooter was the one who initiated the conflict. It might be the case that, under this law, Zimmerman’s actions were legal. Of course, if that is the case, it doesn’t minimize the sense of outrage, but it does suggest the legal attack might have to be vs. the law itself rather than vs. the shooter.

I know I’m kinda preaching to the choir but this senseless killing just makes me more afraid for Black youths. I especially worry about the safety of my 19 year old brother (my family lives in South Carolina) precisely because of the unpredictable nature of whiteness in the heart of Dixie. Because he is what he is – where he is – he’s had the misfortune to be pulled over driving my mom’s car (a Mercedes but lets face it – it could have been a pinto and same story…) while running an errand for her. Coming back from a high school football game he and his friends have been pulled over – and when he tells me about all this I’m immediately freaked out. It says something when you have to coach your brother on how to behave when police pull you over and it’s sickening to know that just as easily and with just a little compassion his death or injury could be caused for little else than he was a Black kid, somewhere, doing something. Nevermind he’s a good student, college bound, has supportive family.

The fact that Zimmerman is not in jail is proof positive of the double standard had when a crime is commited by white persons on the body of persons of color.

If Zimmerman is hispanic as is being claimed by his father, will those of you who have made race-based assessments regarding this incident amend them?

This is the slaying of yet another black youth. When patterns such as this emerge then people will look at the common thread. If we are privy to what the murderers ‘true’ motivations were i.e. were his actions based on his percpetions of race etc then race based assessments cannot be discounted and certainly not at the level where the authorities are concerned and how they are dealing/not dealing with this crime.

I came across two more videos the first is during the headlines section of DemocracyNow! Amy Goodman plays the audio recording of another 911 call where Treyvon is heard screaming and a gunshot. I’m tempted to say “allegedly Treyvon is heard screaming” to as a c.y.a. but I’m not.

@destructure:you wrote:I also find it unacceptable that people keep trying to play up this “child” angle as if he’s a 6 yr old. He was almost 18. He was a varsity football player for Pete’s sake. He was old enough to drive and shave.{

What is your point then, please do explain why you find it so unacceptable we who are parents feel that Trayvon is a child. What I find disturbing is that you are further victimizing the victim. Would you tell Trayvon’s mother and father in person that you think it is “unacceptable to play this child angle.” ?

I really hope you don’t represent the feelings of white Americans about this case, but I guess it is possible, sadly enough, although I do think you get a sadistic pleasure out of the pain and outrage that you must know you are doing, I mean, what kind of person comes on to a blog that deals with racism and black issues and spits on people about their children like you do?

Some here are proclaiming that Zimmerman isn’t white so we have no basis for any arguments regarding race. They fail to realize, though, that the other side of the coin is the (in)action of the police, which may have also involved racism. I agree with Trayvon’s parents. Had he been the gunman, he would have been arrested.

I know this has to go through the legal process. I’m no attorney (of course), but what seems to have caused Trayvon’s death is the confrontation by an armed person. Had Zimmerman kept his arse in the car as he was told, the whole thing may have ended on a much better note. Remove the confrontation and the weapon, and Trayvon may still be alive today. Zimmerman followed and approached Trayvon, not the other way around.

I just read that Zimmeman might have been drunk, I found the following on ABC news:

“But law enforcement expert Rod Wheeler who listened to the tapes tells ABC News that Zimmerman, not Martin, sounded intoxicated in the police recordings of the 911 calls.

“When I listened to the 911 tape the first thing that came to my mind is this guy sounds intoxicated. Notice how he’s slurring his words. We as trained law enforcement officers, we know how to listen for that right away and I think that’s going to be an important element of this entire investigation,” Wheeler said. “

I don’t believe that. At all. Think about this. If someone is in distress and/or in physical danger, and they signal for help by screaming their a$$ off (as their life depends on this act to seek help) – that tells me that that person is in a position of total vulnerability. Treyvon, as far as we know, was in a position of total vulnerability. He was unarmed, minding his own business at that.

Zimmerman was not in a position of vulnerability and he must have known this. He felt the need to have his gun at the ready, so he was totally in control and operated from a position of power. This is only supported by the statements of the police who have not even arrested this guy based on his “squeaky clean record” (which is not).

You know who, is full of you know what. ANY troll familiar with the US racial classification system should know the following present custom (from Wikipekdia):

******************************

“The term “Hispanic” as an ethnonym emerged in the 20th century with the rise of migration of laborers from American Spanish-speaking countries to the United States. Today, the word “Latino” is often used as a synonym for “Hispanic”.

The definitions of both terms are non-race specific,

and include people who consider themselves to be of distinct races (Black, White, Amerindian, Asian, and mixed groups).[98] “

makes me more afraid for Black youths. I especially worry about the safety of my 19 year old brother…. because of the unpredictable nature of whiteness in the heart of Dixie

Your brother has a much larger danger from other young black males than he does from a white man. This Treyvon shooting- white on black – is rare. Young blacks are more likely to be shot by one of their own.

“Your brother has a much larger danger from other young black males than he does from a white man. This Treyvon shooting- white on black – is rare. Young blacks are more likely to be shot by one of their own.”

@Bliff Wow. I.Can’t.Believe.You.Actually.Said.That. WOW.

How did come up with this conclusion? Oh, nevermind, I think I know how… you just made some random assumptions from all your breadth and depth of knowledge about Black people and young Black men and the reasons they might end up getting hurt or killed. It’s such a gross generalization. Individually, my family lives in a dominately white, high-income gated community, and Treyvon’s story has a higher chance of happening to my brother because some trigger-happy person gets “uncomfortable” at the sight of him.

In order for the Stand your ground law to apply Zimmerman had to feel his life was in danger. So lets look at the Facts a 28 year old 250 pd man with a gun, who is chasing and unarmed 17 year old Kid with a bag of skittles and a can of Ice Tea. ” That must have been one hell of a can of Ice tea, for Zimmerman to feel his life was in danger!” Unless Martin was super Black belt in Karate, or the reincarnation of Bruce Lee, I find it hard to believe Zimmermans life was in danger by this underweight kid. Lets face it 6’3″ 140 pound 17 year old is severly underweight. I am 5″10 and when I was 17, I was at 169, my brother was 250, all I can say I did the best I could and lost everytime. Fighting my brother was like fighting a tank. That kid didn’t have a chance to defend himself against this guy.

If anything it was Trayvon that was following the Stand your ground law, Zimmerman ( grown man) was chasing him in the dark with a gun. If Trayvon fought back, its because he felt his life was in danger and needed to defend himself.

Florida is turning out to be the most Jacked up state in the union. 1st you give the election to GW Bush twice, then you let Casey Anthony and several other unfit mother get away with murdering their children. You got 2 sets of racist white/hispanic teens going online spewing all kinds or racist crap on Youtube. Now you let a man kill a 17 year old without even arresting the guy. At least pretend like you are trying to bring justice to the family.

P.S. Bliff, you say that white on black crime is rare but do you even consider or take into account just the senseless killing of Black persons by white authority figures? Like, writ large, you totally overlooking this kind of crime in particular to say something about Blacks and crime in general to derail the issue?

I get the impression that you are, in subtext, saying that Blacks are complicit in their own deaths.

Be a man. Just say it: “I think mr Zimmerman had the right to kill this child because he was black and wore thuggis clothes and was out after the dark.” That is in a nutshell what you try to say via roundabout.

As for this justification of murdering children which you have been advocating here in your responses, you are saying it. I am just trying to figure out why you want child murder to be ok. I know it is embarassing to be a advocate for child murders but that is what you have been doing here all along: you have been giving us all kinds of reasons why mr Zimmermans action was NOT a murder and why it is accetable to murder a child.

You can not take back your very own words which include diamonds like these:

“I also find it unacceptable that people keep trying to play up this “child” angle as if he’s a 6 yr old. He was almost 18. He was a varsity football player for Pete’s sake. He was old enough to drive and shave.”

As we all know saying “he is old enough to shave” means that person is a)to be considered as an adult b)responsible for his own life. Thus, you imply that Treavon was responsible for his own death and it was ok for mr Zimmerman to shoot this child down like a dog.

I know you wish to appear civilized and intellectual man, “a race realist”, but you and we all know already that you are a stone cold racist. You think it was ok for mr Zimmerman to kill that Boy. That Boy was at the wrong place at the wrong time and should have behaved and when he did not, it was only right that mr Zimmerman murdered him. That is what you have been saying in so many words.

My big issue with you is why do you want to defend a child murder? What is wrong with you when you wish that a man who has murdered a child gets a pass? Why do you wish to see that murderer walk away from this? Why do you indetify with the child killer and not the lone kid who was murdered?

I do not care if Treavin was 8 foot 50 tall and weighed 650 pounds and had moustaches down to Alabama. He was unarmed. He was alone. He was followed by an armed grown up man who shot him dead. You have nothing, absolutely nothing that makes it allright. Murder is a murder. Period.

killing of Black persons by white authority figures? Out of the many thousands of encounters between white police officiers and blacks each year (due to high black crime rates), few end up in death. In most of these, the black man either runs, fights, or otherwise does not comply with the police officier. The view promoted here on Abagond’s site and most other black sites, is that white officiers are murdering blacks left and right. Not true.

impression that you are, in subtext, saying that Blacks are complicit in their own deaths. Partially true. High black crime rates cause blacks to come into contact with police more often than whites. If blacks resist, run, etc then that also just increases the chances that some tragic will happen.

“In most of these, the black man either runs, fights, or otherwise does not comply with the police officier.”

Isn’t it weird that cops in Europe face tens of thousands of men behaving just like that every evening across the continent, some of them armed with knives, axes, clubs, stones, bricks, even guns, and yeat for some reason they don’t have to shoot people nearly at all so often as cops in the US do?

Is it because american cops are so much weaker or coward than their european brethren that they have to use guns just to survive?

Or could it be that in USA there is a whole culture of shooting suspects and people who do not “comply with the police officer”?

I personally know of two black-on-black murders but I am STILL more afraid of the police than other blacks. As Firebrand says, the police can act unpredictably. They do not mentally process black men in a rational way, they think they are in far more danger than they are and so they overreact. That is why wannabe cop Zimmerman shot Trayvon dead and that is why the police thought his actions were reasonable.

@ mashiara4life and Nom de Plume…both of you nailed it! This mindset is common in quite a number of the Hispanic population where I live. I’m sure he does identify himself as a white man. Maybe a white man of partial Latin descent, but still white.

@ Randy…I believe that this whole “Hispanic” angle is being played up to make Zimmerman seem like a minority, a convenient way to overshadow the fact that he is a white man who shot and killed an unarmed Black boy who was walking home. We have a sizable population of Hispanics in Florida who view themselves as white or Caucasian and many of them also have a white phenotype. He is white, period.

@ son2380…I agree with you as well. You’re dropping science. And yes, I’m now ashamed to say that I am from Florida. Some madness has been brewing here for a while.

whole culture of shooting suspects and people who do not “comply with the police officer”? Even in the USA, the rate of shooting of suspects by police officers is low. There is no culture of shooting. Blacks commit have a higher crime rate and and therefore come into contact with the police more often.

If we are privy to what the murderers ‘true’ motivations were i.e. were his actions based on his percpetions of race etc then race based assessments cannot be discounted and certainly not at the level where the authorities are concerned and how they are dealing/not dealing with this crime.

I think this is a fair perspective and one which I wouldn’t argue against (excepting the term ‘murderer’, a legal status which has yet to be determined).

Certainly it’s a problem if a neighborhood watch captain is harassing black people because they’re black.

However, if you re-read the comments in this thread, you’ll hear a chorus of voices stating, with a surprising degree of certainty, how this incident is an example of white people oppressing black people and not valuing their lives as human beings.

It’s these commenters to whom I address the question of whether they’d like to amend their responses now that Zimmerman may himself be a PoC.

@ sam
If I may interject.
The reason why there are so many whites on this post, one in particular, defending Zimmerman is because it’s a fantasy that THEY wish to act out on.

I’ve learned a thing or two about white Americans.
Underneath the decent, blue-collar, morally good , hard-working American facade, they are overjoyed to see us destroyed.
And it not for laws and backlash, most of them would be very happy to pull the trigger themselves.

For most American whites, slavery was a great thing and they would sign a petition to have it reinstated. ( of course they deny this.)
Don’t let yourself get riled up by certain comments. They only serve to incite.
What you are reading is a nagging fear that we might band together and overthrow them.

Abagond, I second that. I am a woman, only 5 feet tall, and I also fear most cops. Not to say that there aren’t some good police officers…but it is always better to be on the side of caution. I know that some cops probably wouldn’t hesitate to beat the crap out of me. Some cops are on a power trip and they feel invincible. There is nothing worse than a trigger-happy hothead who wants to throw his weight around.

I personally know of two black-on-black murders but I am STILL more afraid of the police than other blacks. This is irrational based upon what you stated. Perhaps you should be afraid of other blacks more than the police. Perhaps this is your “bias”. Or did you just assume ony whites have bias. Besides, what you feel, and what is true may not be the same.

the police can act unpredictably. This seems like a very biased statement. I would trust a trained police officer over a suspect (regardless of race) any day. You are basing your fear of the police on your biased upbringing in the black community. You were taught to fear the police, out of proportion to your action risk from them.

They do not mentally process black men in a rational way You have got it backwards. The black men do not process the police in a rational way. The black men should comply with the police officer, not the other way around.

they think they are in far more danger than they are and so they overreact. Black men, at least those that are actual criminals are the ones who react irrationally. The police may be overcautious with them. You have a black-centered mentality in which you think the black man is always right or the victim.

why the police thought his actions were reasonable. that hasn’t been decided yet. GZ had a gun permit and it’s not clear whether he can claim self-defense or not.

Personally, I think GZ was a loose cannon and there is enough to send him to trial.

Be a man. Just say it: “I think mr Zimmerman had the right to kill this child because he was black and wore thuggis clothes and was out after the dark.”

Sam: You say some really idi*tic, irresponsible things to me. If you don’t agree with me, go ahead and state that, and most importantly, state why. But this above, and the other things you said in the post, just make you look like an irrational, loose cannon. Keep your mind on the subject at hand and not trying to smear all these “racists” with a broad brush.

white men are most likely to carry out mass killings and/or be serial murderers. You would have to look at the actual statistics before you made a statement like that. Just listing a few ancedotal examples means little. You could’ve just published a self-serving, selective list. I don’t know if white men are more likely or not.

1. He is hellbent on trying to justify the murder of Trayvon Martin like his buddy Destructure.

2. He cares more about the murders of whites at the hands of blacks than the other way around.

3. Black people killing each other is no big deal to him, but black people killing whites is a serious issue.

4. Any pain, frustrations, anger, and fear that blacks have regarding this and other instances of death by whites, police, and white police, is absolute nonsense. To him black people don’t have the reason, let alone the right to feel the way that we do about living in this society. To do so and to talk about it is considered whining to him.

5. He will discount any information, including viable information that counters his views.

6. Whites committing crimes, which include murder, against other whites is also, as it seems, not a big deal to him because be believes it doesn’t happen too often.

@ Bliff…why would I do that? Maybe you would be better suited to that job since you seem to have an agenda of some kind. You wanted proof that most serial killers are white males. I showed you the proof. Hell, the most well-known female serial killer in America is Aileen Wuornos, a white woman.
BTW, with the exception of Jeffrey Dahmer and Gary Ridgway and Gary Heidnik, the other serial killers I listed tended to target people of their own race. All of Ted Bundy’s victims were white. So that should tell you that most crimes are intra-racial. Most Black people are not out to spill the blood of whites, like you seem inclined to believe.

But history will show that many Black people in America, especially males, have been killed by whites. Don’t get me started on Emmett Till and James Byrd and James Anderson and all the rest. These men were not criminals. Neither was Trayvon Martin.

And if you must know, I have given my condolences to the families of Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom…the white couple who was murdered in Tennessee. I am not biased, unlike you. A tragedy is a tragedy, no matter the victim’s race.

To resolve this argument there are criminals in all races! No race is better than the other.
@ And Bliff, why do you think that Whites are more supreme and better than Blacks? I just don’t understand it. Race and the color of anyone’s skin shouldn’t be judged but someone’s character should be.
And @My Perspective,
You are kind of right. Although there is a lot of Caucasian serial killers, whenever an average American thinks of a criminal, they think of a Black man. A Black man is thought of as the savage brute who seduces and rapes White women. That sterotype is probably what led the White guy who shot and killed poor Trayvon Martin ”out of self defense”. If Trayvon was a White guy, I highly doubt that the guy would have shot him like that.

All blackmen in this country are marked for death by racist elements in society and law enforcement. Black males are being gunned down left and right by law enforcement in this country for having domestic disputes with loved ones…(Death by Knife) is what i call it. A lot of blackmen have been killed here in South Florida over the past four or five years for simply holding a knife in their hands. They didn’t stab family members or cops, and they got a bullet to the chest. We think that history can’t repeat itself black people, Really? Blackmen have to understand that the rules don’t apply to us. None of us should lump ourselves in with other men, because they’re the ones pulling the trigger. In other words, blackmen can’t be friends with other men. If they have the chance to take us out one by one, they will do so in a heartbeat. I say this because it’s the ugly truth, it’s not about hating other men. I wish it wasn’t the case, but it is. Envy, rogue cops, racist citizens, and a broken justice system are a deadly mix. When it comes to my safety and that of my family, everybody and everything is suspect…Bottomline!!!

Tyrone
Mindscape
PS…Blackwomen are at risk as well. I don’t want sistas to get the impression that this issue only affects blackmen, which is not the case. Sistas have to stay on their toes as well sistas and brothas.

Further up the thread, you addressed Bliff but your response was intended for me. You intermingled comments from both Bliff and me. And you made false and unproven allegations. You should probably stop commenting until you’ve had a chance to sober up.

=======================

firebrand

The fact that Zimmerman is not in jail is proof positive of the double standard had when a crime is commited

Police not subordinating their responsibilities to your prejudices is not “proof positive of a double standard.”

What I find disturbing is that you are further victimizing the victim.

Perhaps Zimmerman was the victim. We won’t know until the report is released.

Would you tell Trayvon’s mother and father in person that you think it is “unacceptable to play this child angle.” ?

If they were saying it in an obvious and deliberate attempt to prejudice the public then it might be appropriate to do so.

Zimmerman was not in a position of vulnerability and he must have known this. He felt the need to have his gun at the ready,

How do you know his gun was “at the ready”? Were you there? Did you see it? I doubt he removed it from its holster prior to Trayvon allegedly attacking him. We won’t know until the report is released.

so he was totally in control and operated from a position of power.

You don’t know that. It was dark. Trayvon may have smashed him over the head with that can of iced tea. We won’t know until the report is released.

This is only supported by the statements of the police who have not even arrested this guy based on his “squeaky clean record” (which is not).

I once got a parking ticket. Is my record soiled as well?

I think it’s fair to point out that white men are most likely to carry out mass killings and/or be serial murderers.

There’s a difference between absolute numbers and rates. Whites commit a higher absolute number of serial murders because there are more whites. But blacks still commit serial murders at a higher rate.

Whites commit a higher absolute number of serial murders because there are more whites.

LMFAO – Listen to yourself. So afraid are you of criticism that you feel is directed towards ALL the white race, you try desperately and in vain to justify the statistics of serial killers!!!! Come on.

It shows people like Destructure who portrays himself as someone who values white people, really don’t care about them at all. All that matters are crimes against whites by blacks, not white-on-black, or even white-on-white. He’s a sick man.

All that matters are crimes against whites by blacks, not white-on-black, or even white-on-white.

Sadly, from the comments I have seen, I have to agree. Idealistically maybe, I was hoping to find a shred of humanity. Not so – it seems the perceived need for self preservation whilst vilifying BP is what matters.

If you two are through stroking each other perhaps you’ll consider that I was responding to a canard raised by multiple readers. You certainly do throw tantrums when your favorite myths are challenged.

If Zimmerman is hispanic as is being claimed by his father, will those of you who have made race-based assessments regarding this incident amend them?

No. Hispanics are ‘white’ until they commit a crime or are involved in some scandal. You can’t have it both ways. Henceforth and hithertoo his is white for all intents and purposes.

your brother has a greater chance of being shot by another young black.

Is that before or after the white man gets him? Or is it the hispanic when they go from white to other whilst committing a crime?

Like, writ large, you totally overlooking this kind of crime in particular to say something about Blacks and crime in general to derail the issue?

It’s okay for Bliff to derail and refer to crime statistics based on race. In these clown’s minds, Trayvon is paying for it. Instead of empathizing with this particular case, they come up with these non-sequiter arguments. They have no moral compass unless it it blaming the victims such as Trayvon. Anything to defend their whiteness.

I said they were “your favorite myths LMAO – is this really the best that you can do? In saying that they are my myths you are actually attributing those assertions to me, albeit indirectly. Apologies if I dont revert to type for you…

Zimmerman’s a mestizo, thats not really white, and historically Mestizo’s have faced oppression as well.

Its been specified that Zimmerman comes from a “multi-ethnic” family.

Admitably this is an assumption at this point, but working from the idea that one of his parents is your standard mestizo/American hispanic.

That makes him what 15% native, 2.5% asian and around 1.5% black and somewhere around 80% white?

He’s mostly white yes, but being mixed has never really counted as white, like I posted earlier, when it comes to killing black people he’s going to get white priviledge but thats more the nature of his victim than of his own racial category.

I don’t know whether Zimmerman was hired as a security guard or simply volunteered. I would imagine that he would be responsible to either some company that managed the complex or a community association.

@destructure,
Zimmerman was hired by the Sanford Police Dept.
according to the Sanford Police Dept website, neighborhood watch are hired by the Sanford Police, and as part of their application, must follow the inx of the police and dispatchers.
Also, Zimmerman did not call 911, he called the police dept, listen to the tape again.

That’s surprising. Because the news reports have been referring to Zimmerman’s 911 calls. And with all the criticism of the Sanford police I can’t imagine people not having made more of connections between him and them. I’m not arguing against you. I could well be wrong on this. Have you got some links or something?

It looks like they have a coordinator at the police department that works with the neighborhood watch program. But I don’t think the program is actually run by the local police department. Most neighborhood watch groups are volunteers organized by neighborhood associations under a national umbrella. Then they just register with the local department.

Dear Jeb, This would be a good time to admit you were wrong to sign this bill into law. Trevor’s murder was predicted before the bill was signed. You signed it for politcial advantage. Trevor’s blood and the blood of others – white and black and hispanic and Asian can not be wiped away with Smile and a salute to the NRA.

Ya know, it would be nice to converse with you if were an honest person, but in dealing with you I have found out you are not. Like most of the black commenters on this site, you are out to make whites look bad, and you don’t deal with black-white issues fairly.

He is hellbent on trying to justify the murder of Trayvon Martin like his buddy Destructure.. Now read my comment at Mon 19 Mar 2012 at 18:56:52. What did I say? What did I SAY!! Something like this, perhaps, “Personally, I think GZ was a loose cannon and there is enough to send him to trial.”

. He cares more about the murders of whites at the hands of blacks than the other way around. How do you know this?? Are you a mind reader?? No, I said that blacks do kill more whites than vice versa. I am stating a fact. How does this translate in “care”?

Whites killing blacks is justified to him. Totally dishonest, BrothaWolf, I said no such thing.

He denies being racist. When Abagond asked me if I was a racist, didn’t I reply that to him and most of the commenters on this blog, I would be a racist!!! Didn’t I say that? To me, I’m a “race realist”, but to you, I would be a racist.

THIS is why I don’t think you are an honest commenter, BrothaWolf. You go by what you THINK white people are like, not how they are, or by what they state.

You and TheFirebrand brought up serial killers. I think they’re killers just any other killers. I’m not sure if it matters if there are more white than black serial killers; the black murder rate is still about 7 times higher than the white rate.

However, maybe there is something to there being more white serial killers than black, if that is indeed true. Serial killers are know to have above average intelligence, even though they are truly sociopathic. The most “successful” serial killers are known generally because they are so devious and kill many before being caught.

Perhaps whites higher intelligence may explain why there are more white than black serial killers. Blacks kill at an overall higher rate – but they just get caught sooner must they may kill more emotionally, without planning!!

Wow, this hits all 3 of Levin’s points – blacks are less intelligent, more impulsive, and think ahead more poorly!! Serial killers as a demonstration of this idea!! Who would’ve thunk it!!

All blackmen in this country are marked for death by racist elements in society and law enforcement. Black males are being gunned down left and right by law enforcement in this country I would say this is extreme hyperbole. You could be more truthful, by toning it down a little, don’t ya think??

why do you think that Whites are more supreme and better than Blacks? I just don’t understand it. . I don’t think think whites are more supreme and better than Blacks. That would be like syaing whites are superior to Blacks in some Absolute sense. This is not what I said. I said whites are more intelliegent, less impulsive, and plan better for the future, per Levin’s “Why Race Matters”. Why would these 3 things matter? Because in order to do well in a modern society, these 3 things are important. Blacks probably developed to be well suited to their original environment in Africa, but are less suited (not unsuited all) to this modern society.

Race and the color of anyone’s skin shouldn’t be judged but someone’s character should be I am not judging the color of any one’s skin. Blacks developed in Africa per the above explanation, as well as developing black skin. One doesn’t cause the other – they just happened to develop together.

Ya know, it would be nice to converse with you if were an honest person, but in dealing with you I have found out you are not. Like most of the black commenters on this site, you are out to make whites look bad, and you don’t deal with black-white issues fairly.

I am honest about how I feel, and right now, whenever I see your comments, you make me feel sick. By the way, you really want me to deal with black-white issues if I favor WHITES ONLY! That’s the truth you’re too cowardly to admit or even face.

He is hellbent on trying to justify the murder of Trayvon Martin like his buddy Destructure.. Now read my comment at Mon 19 Mar 2012 at 18:56:52. What did I say? What did I SAY!! Something like this, perhaps, “Personally, I think GZ was a loose cannon and there is enough to send him to trial.”

You didn’t have to say shit, jackass. You said enough when you typed:

“Will the blacks ever be done with their racist hyperbole, where they make exaggerated statements like this in every incident, while ignoring their own excessive violent crime rate.?”

A group that champions obvious murderers like OJ Simpson, Mumia Jamal, and Troy Anthony Davis has much to think about.

1. Trayvon didn’t have to attack , he is responsible for doing that, and it is one of the elements of the chain of events leading up to the tragedy.

2. It’s amazing that in nearly all cases like, the black man has committed some violence or defiance, and he and the black community want to shout “racism” but just never seem to mention the black man’s part in aggravating the situation.

“Is it wrong to be peeved when someone treats you like a suspect” YES. it was completely wrong for Trayvon to punch out Zimmerman. He should have just went back into the apartment.

“you get into a brawl with another individual, they have the right to shoot you? ” Probably yes. People have the right to defend themselves. Whether or not this was the appropriate situation is up to the police and courts.

Damn Blacks!! Now they went and made the nice police officers shoot them.”

He cares more about the murders of whites at the hands of blacks than the other way around. How do you know this?? Are you a mind reader?? No, I said that blacks do kill more whites than vice versa. I am stating a fact. How does this translate in “care”?

Yet, that’s your focus, isn’t it? Black-on-white crime. The fact is you really don’t give two damns about white-on-black murders or even white-on-white murders. As long as the suspect is a black man, that gets you hyped up and then your racist assumptions are conveniently proven for your satisfaction. It’s not the crime of humanity to you. It’s a crime against white people.

Whites killing blacks is justified to him. Totally dishonest, BrothaWolf, I said no such thing.

Am I wrong though that it crossed your mind? Why don’t you start being honest and tell us what you really think if your man enough.

He denies being racist. When Abagond asked me if I was a racist, didn’t I reply that to him and most of the commenters on this blog, I would be a racist!!! Didn’t I say that? To me, I’m a “race realist”, but to you, I would be a racist.

THIS is why I don’t think you are an honest commenter, BrothaWolf. You go by what you THINK white people are like, not how they are, or by what they state.

Whatever you call yourself, you still a troll with no soul.

If you want me to change my opinion on whites, why not start acting like you have a mind of your own, a descent soul, and a heart instead of a black hole. Many of us are really saddened by this tragedy, and here you are trying to make it seem that we have no reason to be outraged. You have the audacity to tell us how we should feel. That is the truth.

Philip “Pittsburg” Strauss alone was convicted for 53 murders, the police knew for sure about 58 murders and most crime historians think the guy may have killed around 100. And, this is important, he was not a “emotional serial killer”, but a businesman to whom murder was just a another business. Abe “Kid Twist” Reles murdered some 40 guys and knew about 200 murders in New York area alone. To him murders were also just one part of the business.

This group consisting around ten guys murdered perhaps a thousand guys across the USA in roughly ten years. They were all by modern standards serial killers, but because they had a clear motive, money, they are not usually considered as such.

And on that note: Carmine Galante killed some 50 people, Lefty Ruggiero 23 by his own admission, John “Mad Dog” Sullivan twenty at least, some estimate as high as 80. Nobody knows how many guys were murdered by “Mad Sam” DeStefano in Chicago. Richard “Ice Man” Kuklinsku does not even remember how many he killed but it was dozens, perhaps more than 100. And he was both serial killer and professional hitman. Even that nice rogue “man who invented Las Vegas” whom Warren Beatty made movie about, Benjamin “Bugsy” Siegel admitted murdering 11 guys. And he was known as Baby Blye Eyes.

And so on and so on.

If we start to argue who were the most busy killers and murderers, we should not forget the white organised crime. In those crime groups there has been litterally dozens of men who could be called easily as serial killers. Sammy “The Bull” Gravano admitted participating in 19 murders but may have been involved in 23.

“You should probably stop commenting until you’ve had a chance to sober up.”

Just to let you know, I have never been intoxicated in my life, I do not drink any alcohol nor I use any drugs, legal or illegal, and I have never done so. 😀

@bliff:

“If you don’t agree with me, go ahead and state that, and most importantly, state why.”

I have and multiple times. I have no idea why you can not understand what I write. Just to make it sure I’ll repeat it one more time:

1. Unlike you, I do not think it is ok to kill children.

2. Unlike you I do not think it is ok to kill anyone.

3. Unlike you I do not think it is ok to kill blacks.

4. Unlike you I do not think it is ok to kill black children.

And this goes for destructure too.

I know you guys disagree with me on this but hey, that is the way it is. You support a child murderer and argue on his behalf, I do not feel like a child murderer should be supported at all. That is where we think differently. It is not more complicated than that.

Time to slow down on the anti-white comments. George Zimmerman is not white, he’s Hispanic. Hispanics are “white” according to the census, but not in terms of 1) ancestry or 2) their experience in America (i.e. as minorities, which is similar to the African-American experience).

In the wake of spreading public outrage, the Justice Department and the FBI have opened an investigation into the shooting of a black teenager by a Florida neighborhood watch captain who escaped arrest.

More than 435,000 people, many alerted by tweets from celebrities such as movie director Spike Lee and musician Wyclef Jean, signed a petition on Change.org, a social action website, calling for the arrest of the shooter, George Zimmerman.

The Justice Department’s Civil Rights Division and the FBI announced on Monday that they have opened an investigation into the shooting in Florida of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, who was unarmed when he was killed.

@ Bliff…I can’t believe I’m still debating with you, but I want to touch on something you said. You claim that whites are more intelligent and less impulsive than blacks. BTW, I’m not the one who brought up serial killers in the first place, but I couldn’t help jumping into that conversation. 😉

Serial killers tend to be white males in their 30’s. They tend to be loners of average or above average intelligence, although some are probably far below. They tend to have abusive or dysfunctional childhoods. They tend to adopt certain behaviors as children which become patterns in adulthood. They tend to have issues with impulse control, otherwise they wouldn’t persist in killing repeatedly. Something is obviously driving them to keep doing what they do. Maybe what you mean is that they tend to plan their methods better than killers of other races…this I can agree with. There does seem to be some truth in that.

I can think of two Black serial killers, Anthony Sowell and Wayne Williams. I know there are definitely more, but those are the ones that most people are familiar with. As to your notion that Blacks aren’t well suited to modern society…I’m over here chuckling at you.

Now back to the subject at hand, it is sad what happened to this young man. It is even sadder that some people feel no compassion. I wonder what their reactions would be if their sons or brothers had been killed?

@Jake…please show me where “anti-white” comments have been made. Why are you not also telling people to slow down on the anti-black sentiments as well? And Zimmerman is, for all intents and purposes, white. Many Hispanics in Florida identify themselves as white, even some of the ones with darker skin.

As to growing up in a multiracial family, lots of people can make that claim. It still doesn’t absolve him of responsibility.

Zimmerman claims he couldn’t get help or escape. Why should he have to take a beating when he has a gun…. He only shot once. It sounds a lot more like self defense than a hate crime. It sounds a lot like Martin was on top of Zimmerman and he shot once to get away.

Logic to me would indicate that if Zimmerman decided to commit a hate crime he would have shot multiple times, and probably with another weapon. The weapon he used was clearly a carry gun not a “I’m going to kill this guy” gun.

A whole lot of racism on here , and not much logic or intelligent thought.

The last line of your comment is priceless. He is a 28 year old wannabe cop that has at least 100lbs on a 17 year old. He followed him when instructed not to, he took it a step further and got out of his vehicle. Pull your head out of the sand.

You just don’t get it do you, Sam. My problem with you is you keep trying to put words in my mouth. I never stated the above, nor do I agree with any of them. You keep writing things and then stating this is what I believe. You are not an honest man.

There are so many murders (and even serial murders) that an anecdotal list is irrelevant. One could create a list of serial killers for any demographic. But since readers have chosen to write so extensively its worth noting what the FBI has to say on the matter.

Base Rates
A lack of understanding of base rates can lead to misinterpreting research findings and forensic results.4 Consider the oft-quoted fact, “Serial killers are usually white males.” While technically correct, at least for the United States, this statement is incomplete. To understand it properly, the relevant base rates also must be considered. Three different studies of serial murderers found black offender proportions of 16, 20, and 20 percent, and female offender proportions of 9, 10, and 16 percent. According to the 2000 census, the U.S. population is 75 percent white and 49 percent male. So, while disproportionately male, the only reason most serial killers in the United States are white is because most of the population is white. More important, all else being equal, serial killers are less likely to be white in predominantly black or Hispanic areas.

@Abagond
Thanks for your information
@Bliff
Okay, I believe you but how do you figure that out?
@Tyrone
Thank you for your input. You are right that Sistas like me are at risk. America really doesn’t like Black people. Neither does the world. Anyways Black men are stastically more likely to die from homicide than his Caucasian counterpart. And Trayvon’s case proves it.
And George Zimmerman Hispanic? Most Hispanics are NOT white! Most Hispanics are mixed with Spanish, African and Native blood. There is no way that most of them are White! Only a few of them are actually White, which are the White Hispanics. Maybe George Zimmerman is a White Hispanic for all I care but he is still criminal that shot an innocent boy!

@bliff:
I am merely trying to understand what you are trying to say and as far as I am convinced you are doing all you can to rationalise and support a child killer. It is only reasonable that I belive that you support child murderer, as you do in your statements here.

Then you imply in many different ways that the victim is to be blamed, That tells me that you think it is a childs fault if he/she gets murdered, that it is only natural to kill a child in these circumstances. You also pointed out that a kid 17yrs old is not really a child and old enough to be responsible for his life, meaning that 17yr old kid is actually not a victim at all, or that his death is not as bad as it would have been is he had been under 14.

If you wish to come out differently then why not state it clearly: say that mr Zimmerman is guilty, that you think what he did was wrong and that he should be convicted as a murderer.

Funny how mr Zimmerman has Turned from a white guy to multiracial guy in split second :D.

I bet his lawyer has told him that if this goes to trial as a hate crime, he will go to the chair. So now his old man and family and cousins and family dog and I guess the sheep from the meadows too are telling to the world that a) he is not a white guy, ergo he is not a racist b)this is not a racist crime at all. 😀

@Abagond
I wasn’t calling for violence nor do I want to. I am not trying to be rude or talk back to you nor do i want to. I respect you and your opinions. I want him arrested as much as you do and i hope that they get justice for Trayvon Martin because i have a 13 year old brother and I don’t want that happening to him. And I am glad that you care enough to post this post about a innocent seventeen year old boy because being, 16, I am one year younger than him. I remember hearing about Emmit Till and I was so heartbroken. I am heartbroken by this case as well. And if Trayvon Martin never gets justice for his murderer, then this will prove that people aren’t much different from the racist bygone era of the 1950s.
And I really hope that you aren’t offended by me. I am stating the facts with some of my opinion.

It sounds like Zimmerman, initiated the confrontation, but, was ‘loosing’ the tussle, and did what he had on planned on doing, which was shoot and kill the boy. An ‘eyewitness’, says that she saw someone on the ground in a red shirt, and, I believe that that was Zimmerman. The boy was shot in the chest, a kill shot for certain, which suggests that the shooter had to aim there, as I don’t believe he could have shot him in the chest from behind. However it is possible that Zimmerman was on top, and shot him. But the intent was to kill, not injure or wound. Chilling and sickening.

please listen to the tapes…there were 2 shots and someone was screaming non-stop when both shots were fired.

I’ve listened to the tapes several times. The callers are saying it was one shot. I’m not saying two shots weren’t fired. I wasn’t there so I don’t know. But that’s not what they’re saying on the tapes.

@Bliff
I am asking how you came to that conclusion. You are right when you figured that out. I said I believed you when you said that you don’t think Whites are superior to Blacks.
@Abagond
Thanks for telling me. I don’t think anyone should promote violence or make violent comments on here. I also think you should ban anyone using the N word on here. I don’t like the N word and it has its roots in the KKK. The KKK and other racist Whites back in the day to call Blacks they hurt, and lynched.
And Zimmerman shot Trayvon twice? I didn’t know that. I need moe insight on this story!

First of all racism is very much a live and thriving very well in America. And there is a lot of hatred towards Blacks as well. It stems from ignorance and other races who lack self-esteem. I need more answers. Is there any knowledge of Tayvon Martin having an indiction problem? Not that this means that makes his senseless Death deserving. But I need to know that in 2012 if you see a Black male walking, it means he is on drugs. Does he have a criminal background of breaking and entering? He didn’t have a gun. Did he have any tools to sugest his attent was burglary? And in a gated community, how many burglaries have they had in a six month time frame? I would like answers to these ??? from the Sanford police department. Until it is justified you have once again slaughtered one of ours. When the incident occurred a couple of months ago where the white school kid killed students in Ohio, they called him a “nice kid” He opened fire on innocent school kids. An America still does not understand October 11?

I have, unlike most of you on this site, researched both Mr. Martin’s family’s third party view of what happened, The HISPANIC Mr. Zimmerman’s, ( yes, it’s so true- look up his own father’s outraged interview), The fact that the police did a crime scene thorough investigation- declaring no guilt present in Mr. Zimmerman at all, and all the racist people trying to use this poor man’s death as another reason to hate a different race, (white or black).

The fact’s are simple:

Mr. Zimmerman was licensed by the State of Florida to carry a concealed weapon, which he must have felt was necessary to protect himself because of where he lived in his neighborhood. Mr Zimmerman had a four year background in criminal justice, and was very knowledgeable in matters of personal security. That is why he was placed on the community watch in his neighborhood.

Mr Zimmerman called police to report the incident, and they noted this in their records, recommending Zimmerman wait for assistance. He did not, wishing to ask the 17 year old football- playing man a question about why he was out so late in the neighborhood. Mr. martin got agitated according to the records and started a fight with the neighborhood patrolman, beating him so much there was a groove worn into the grass, stains all over the back of his shirt, and bloody bruises were found on the back of Mr. Zimmerman’s head. His face was found bloody as well.

Mr. Martin was beating him to death. Plain and simple. Another report said Mr. Martin was suspended from school, and that is perhaps why he was so angry- who knows, but the evidence was substantial. The police followed due process at the scene when finding out that Mr. Martin was shot AFTER nearly killing Mr. Zimmerman with his bare hands!

This was not an innocent man like we see the media curtailing all of the sudden towards the racist views of some people.

ARE YOU FkING KIDDIN ME???? How the hell anyone can see from clothes who is a criminal or not, who is going to be a criminal or not. You seen the biggest criminals in the world? Yeap. They were three piece suits, go to barber everyday and have their nails manicured daily.

If american law enforcement believes that it can look dresses and know is that person a criminal or not, no wonder the law enforcement is in such a bad state over there. I mean, are the Guccis or Hugo Bosses more prone to crime? Get real, son! And quick.

“Mr Zimmerman had a four year background in criminal justice, and was very knowledgeable in matters of personal security.”

Then he would have had to know that when a 911 dispatcher instruct you to do something, you should do it and not the opposite. He should have known that when the official person instructs you top stay put, you are not supposed to run after a child at night, unless of course, you want to molest him or, as happened here, kill him.

As for the personal security, let us assume for a second that this “suspicious individual in criminal clothing” had really been a stone cold criminal. You think this white über cop would have gotten out of his car alive? Run after alive? Fight and stayed alive? See, IF this person would have been such a criminal he would have shot this stupid robocop wannabe when he got out of his car. That is how much this part time commando knew about personal security or any security.

“Mr. Martin was beating him to death.”

Really? Are you Fking kiddin again?

“bloody bruises were found on the back of Mr. Zimmerman’s head. His face was found bloody as well.”

I don’t know about you but I have done some boxing, judo, wrestling, played american football and had some scuffles on the streets (includin one where I was hit on the head with a bench) and let me tell you, those injuries are really not life threatning. I have been kicked in the head, on my face, once and I was much more damaged than mr Super Trooper here. I have been in much worse condition in the ring after a boxing match, legal match that is, than mr Gunslinger here! So please, who do you think you are kiddin?

“Mr. Martin was shot AFTER nearly killing Mr. Zimmerman with his bare hands!”

Oh yeah? How many fractured bones? Was mr Supercops skull fractured? Was he chocked? How many ribs were broken? His arms? Teeth broken? Jaw broken? Jaw is very easy to break in a fight, ot takes one good punch, so his jaw must have been busted, at least, since his life was in danger? Right? Or at least his nose. I mean it has been all over the news that this child hit him on the nose and since that is also easy to broke I bet mr Zupacops nose was broken or smashed since his life was in danager here and he almost got killed. Right?

What? No? I wonder why, since he was almost killed with bare hands.

Also, I would really like to see mr Martins hands. They must be a real mess since he almost killed mr Supertrooper with them. You do know that this happens when you hit some one with your bare hands? You may even break bones in your own hands when hitting someone in the head. So that is very easy to check too. And, since you claim that mr Martion almost beat mr Zingerdinger to death here, his hands must have bruises, fractures, cuts and dislocations all over them.

OK Mr biased individual! Obviously you are very emotionally attached to the whole incident and it disturbs you personally.

Unfortunately, the facts are there in front of your nose.

“How the hell anyone can see from clothes who is a criminal or not, who is going to be a criminal or not.”—————– VERY EASILY!!!!! OPEN YOUR EYES!!!!!!

It doesn’t take a genius to see that criminals usually dress in dark colored clothes at night to avoid detection by authorities and so they will not be seen in the dark! Neat concept isn’t it? Bright colorful clothes would be NORMAL and attract attention at night if one was in the dark shadows wouldn’t they?

“Then he would have had to know that when a 911 dispatcher instruct you to do something, you should do it and not the opposite”.—————THEY SUGGESTED THIS- IT WAS NOT A COMMAND!

The articles on the internet said this was his JOB as Community watchman to stop crime and that’s what he was trying to do, question Mr. Martin.

“What? No? I wonder why, since he was almost killed with bare hands. ”

What Mr. Zimmerman did was within the Florida Law. He saw that he was physically threatened to the point of physical damage and he simply stood his ground according to the Law, and defended his life as he saw the need to. The man screamed for assistance, but Martin ceased to stop, so he fired his weapon in self defense!

Sorry that kind of murderous behavior that Martin was displaying wasn’t permitted to continue, if that would have made you more elated about the situation seeing a dead Zimmerman, and Martin in Jail.

When a authority, individual who is actually working for the law enforcement as a dispacther for example (and not play acts one as mr Zipperhead did) tells you to do something, that is an order. When this dispatcher told mr Zippelydoo to wait by the mail boxes, what did mr Zippydidoo answered? He said: OK. And what he did? He ran after the kid with a gun in his hand.

“his JOB as Community watchman to stop crime and that’s what he was trying to do”.

He was hired as watchman? Who paid his salary? Who hired him? Well, doesn’t matter since you state that his job was stop the crime. Now tell me and everybody else here, what crime mr Martin was commiting when he was walking back to his fathers home?? What law he was breaking at that moment? Is there a federal or state law which says without any question that kids under 18 and blacks are not allowed out after the dark? I bet you can not find such a law.

There fore when mr Zippzapp went after mr Martin, he was actually the aggressor, the attacker, not the other way around. And for that there are laws even in Florida, no matter how much you and KKK wishes they do not apply on this murder.

“What Mr. Zimmerman did was within the Florida Law. He saw that he was physically threatened to the point of physical damage and he simply stood his ground according to the Law, and defended his life as he saw the need to. The man screamed for assistance, but Martin ceased to stop, so he fired his weapon in self defense!”

Mr Zipperhead shoit an unarmed kid dead. According to you that is ok and lawful. Right…

Of course he saw the situation that way, he can not say openly that he likes to kill a black kid tonite. That would be rude.

What physical damage? This kid was less than 150 lbs with his criminal clothes on! Mr Zippodippo was well over 200 lbs! You really believe that this is a contest? I would agree with you if mr Martin would have been the attacker and mr Zipperdipper would have been in a wheel chair, but not as it is.

“The man screamed for assistance”.

Which man? The grown up ma who was chasing a black kid at night with a gun in his hand, or a lonely black kid who was attacked by a stranger holding a gun? And on that note, the screams stopped at the very moment when Zipperhose kills mr Martin. Strange is it not?

“Martin ceased to stop”

You mean to tell me that if unknown attacker with a gun in his hand attacks you in the night, you just drop your hands and take it as it comes? You just accept the fact that this attacker must be someone good, a good person, so of course he has a right to attack you at nigh with a gun? Somehow I do not believe that. You would fight for your life, just like this child did when unknown man with a gun came after him and he could not get away. You can actually hear on the tape how mr Ziplock runs after the kid. He chases him. He is attacking. Not the other way around.

“self defense!”

Yes it was, mr Martin was fighting for his life in self defense but unfortunately the murderer mr Zimmerman did his deed. No wonder since he was so much bigger than this child and had a gun, when mr Martin did not have anything.

You would be guilty of perjury if you had just taken the stand of a court of law!!!!!! You liar! The Hispanic man you would love to make this a political and racial case about this by making the public call him “White”, (when he is not!), was licensed to carry a concealed weapon, which anyone INCLUDING YOU- knows declares you should not wave a gun around at people acting like a police officer. If he had he would have Immediately been arrested by the police when they arrived for using unnecessary force and brandishing a weapon. Newsflash liar- he was not!

Zimmerman did not pull his gun out until beaten to a pulp and nearly killed by your hero Martin, what a great thug he was.

Thank you for bringing Randy to the post devoted to Trayvon’s murder. His cold, rational, sober thought will help relieve the pain tied to Trayvon’s murder. His endless logic will help ease everyone’s incredulity. His prolific career working with Black American is exactly what we need to bridge the canyon dividing Black-White relations. He has such an exacting knowledge of the history and profile of racial violence cases. He is a subject matter expert on White on Black violence and White hate crimes in general.

We need to learn more about the sacred text, the Bell Curve. It is so profuse with ageless wisdom and knowledge. Please hurry! And don’t spare the rest of the disciples: we need Bliff, Destructure, and Doug1, now!

Zimmerman did not pull his gun out until beaten to a pulp and nearly killed by your hero Martin, what a great thug he was.

here is the link to the police report, if you were beaten to a pulp, I would hope you would be hospitalized or am I just being illogical again? Zimmerman was treated in a police car and then brought in for questioning, and then released, doesn’t sound like the ICU to me.

Thank you for bringing Randy to the post devoted to Trayvon’s murder. His cold, rational, sober thought will help relieve the pain tied to Trayvon’s murder. His endless logic will help ease everyone’s incredulity. His prolific career working with Black American is exactly what we need to bridge the canyon dividing Black-White relations. He has such an exacting knowledge of the history and profile of racial violence cases. He is a subject matter expert on White on Black violence and White hate crimes in general.

You have validated my point better than I ever could have. None of what you described above impacts the processes required to ensure justice will be served, unless one’s definition of justice is based upon the capricious nature of mobs.

And you have confused your role in this case. You have no need to see every last speck of evidence to understand that a 17 year old has been murdered. Yet you talk as though you are a defense lawyer, and that a disconnected role is one you must appropriate for justice to be enacted.

Why don’t you take that approach at StormFront where that type of tone-deafness is welcomes, nay, a prerequisite.

You are entirely inappropriate in your efforts to minimize people’s feelings about the death of an innocent 17 year old here. Completely out of line.

I’m also disappointed by those wishing to smear Mr Zimmerman. So I’ve researched the incident and created a FAQ to address some of the more common smears. My FAQ includes links to witness statements supporting Mr Zimmerman’s claim of self-defense.

And you have confused your role in this case. You have no need to see every last speck of evidence to understand that a 17 year old has been murdered. Yet you talk as though you are a defense lawyer, and that a disconnected role is one you must appropriate for justice to be enacted.

“Zimmerman did not pull his gun out until beaten to a pulp and nearly killed by your hero Martin”.

Mr Zimmerman says in the tape that the kid is coming to him, then says to the dispatcher who tells him to stay put and wait for cops “OK” and RUNS after the kid (you can hear the heavy breathing in the tape). He goes after the kid! Repeat; he runs after the kid. One more time: he runs after the kid. So who attacks whom?

Beaten to pulp? BUAHHAHHAHHAHHAHHAH! I advice you to watch some boxing and then come back to say that. That zipperhead pseudocop got a bitch slap at most.

Nearly killed? Did his heart stop? Was he taken into intensive care? And please, tell me now how many bones were broken? Was his skull fractured? Was his nose, the one into which this terrible 140lbs monster hit, broken? No? Why not? Direct hit to the nose! It should be smashed. No? Why on earth::: ???

And were you there? Did you see him pull the gun only after he was “beaten to pulp”?? No.

He did have a gun, he did not wait for cops as he was instructed to do despite he said Ok, he ran after the kid, he attaxcked the kid, he killed the kid. These are the facts. Get over it. Be a man. Face the facts. Don’t be a cry baby and make excuses.

Thank you destructure. I see the futility here that being the rational voice in an angry violent mob of bloodthirsty people is not going to help. I can say I tried too. I will read the FACTS you present OBJECTIVELY and continue to read new evidence to remain OBJECTIVE, unlike the racist mob on this site.

I just wonder why you want to defend a child killer. That is all. I find it very very disturbing, as a parent, that anyone would side with a child murderer and try to make excuses for him.

I find it really disturbing that you, destructure and dougie of course, try to turn a dead child into a criminal. I find it really disturbing that you guys seem to advocate child murdering via your rationalizing this murder. In that aspect we are different: you support and defend a child murderer, I want him to get convicted for this murder.

Mr Zimmerman is the one who was violent and blood thirsty. He ran after the kid with a gun, attacked the kid and shot him dead. These are the facts. This kid had committed no crime, he walking to his father home and he was murdered by a grown man. How you or anyone can defend this killer is anyones guess.

And notice, I did not mention their color at all, not once. Why? Because you bring it up. You like to play that KKK violin about “suspicious blacks” prowling in the hood with bad intentions as a reason for this murder. To me it is about grown up man murdering a child, a kid, 140lbs lanky teenager. For you it is about brave white man defending his home and family and country from those black creeps. And that, honestly, is disgusting.

To the extent that those witness accounts are accurate, they do suggest that Zimmerman may have been on the losing side of a physical confrontation. However, it’s still unclear what transpired between the time Zimmerman approached Martin and the time of the shooting.

There’s a range of possibilities which include belligerence and assault by either party.

“I find it really disturbing that you, destructure and dougie of course, try to turn a dead child into a criminal. I find it really disturbing that you guys seem to advocate child murdering via your rationalizing this murder.”

ANYONE who has to shoot another person because they are afraid to take a beating needs shot themselves. if the neighborhood watchman had done what law enforcement told HIM to do then this situation seems like it would not have been. regardless if this is a race situation or not don’t end another person’s life just because you are getting your ass kicked in a hand to hand non lethal fight.
now we have two families, the victim’s foremost, that have to deal with this way more than we do.

The shooting death of 17-year old Trayvon Martin occurred February 26th, but his story has been dominating headlines for the past week, catching the attention of political figures and celebrities alike. Irish singer Sinead O’Connor took to her blog to passionately speak out about the teenager’s untimely death. No U Ain’t Radio definitely respects Sinead for “tellin it like it is…not like it was.”

Read O’Connor’s open letter from her website and let us know what you think:

22.03.12 Treyvon Martin

I would like to extend my very deepest sympathies to the family and other loved ones of murdered teenager, Treyvon Martin. I am very sad today (and am certain the whole of Ireland is) to learn of poor Treyvon’s terrifying ordeal and horrified by the fact his known and named and admitted killer has not been arrested, despite the crime having taken place a month ago. This is a disgrace to the entire human race.

For those out there who believe black people to be less than pure royalty, let me inform you of a little known, but scientifically proven, many times over, FACT. Which after reading, you will hopefully feel both very stupid and very sorry. For you dishonor your own mothers and grandmothers.

EVERY human being on earth, no matter what their culture, creed, skin colour, or nationality, shares one gene traceable back to one African woman. Scientists have named it ‘The Eve Gene’. This means ALL of us, even ridiculously stupid, ignorant, perverted, blaspheming racists are the descendants of one African woman.

One African woman is the mother of all of us. Africa was the first world. You come from there! Your skin may be ‘white’.. because you didn’t need it to be black any more where you lived. But as Curtis Mayfield said.. “You’re just the surface of our dark, deep well”. So you’re being morons. And God is having the last laugh at your ignorant expense.

If you hate black people, its yourself you hate. And the mother who bore you. If you kill or wish ill on black people, its yourself you kill and wish ill on. As well as the mother who bore you.

When you dishonor the the utter glory and majesty of black people, you lie. Your heart lies to you and you let it. Despite seeing every day, all your life, how you and your country would be less than wonderfully functioning and inspiring to the world, without the manifold and glorious contributions made by the descendants of African slaves, who did not by the way actually ask to go to America and leave their future families there to be disrespected for eternity.

What are you doing hating yourself by hating your brothers and sisters who daily show you nothing but inspiration and love, despite having NOTHING, in their own country? Despite having barely a chance of anything, because of racism. Despite being granted no ‘permission’ for proper self-esteem.

These beautiful people continue to believe in and even manifest Jesus Christ better than you do. That alone could stand as the greatest reason your racism is blasphemy, were it not for all the other reasons.

These people you hate and fear ARE the body of Christ, just as we all are. Every child, woman or man. And they know it. Maybe thats why you cant bear to look at them. Because you see Jesus Christ and you cant stand the light.

Stop this ridiculous and uneducated attitude. You would be dead without black people. Think of all the greatest music ever composed. The greatest songs. The greatest inspirational heroes.. Muhammad Ali, Mandela, Martin Luther King, Harriet Tubman, Soujourner Truth, Bob Marley, Nina Simone, Curtis Mayfield. So many absolute angels, sent from God.

Without the inspiration of these people many millions of so-called ‘white’ people, including myself would not have had the strength to pay the price of life.

And black youth in America. I’m talking to you here too. I love you. So I don’t mean to sound cross, I’m just being a mother.. Why are you killing each other? Why are you hating yourselves? You are the most important people God ever sent to this earth, every man, woman and child among you! Don’t let uneducated people win and take your self-esteem or your esteem for each other, and make you kill each other. over guns, drugs, bling, or any other nonsense.

You are now entering YOUR version of a sort of civil rights movement and you’re gonna see history being made in what has certainly the profoundest potential to become THE most wonderful country on earth. Because soon ALL ‘isms’ and ‘sits” will end. including racism, as the people of the earth begin to understand, we are all one.

We came from one mother. We are all brothers and sisters. And we CAN get beyond this ILLUSION of separateness. With prayer and love. It CAN change. It WILL change. And YOU guys (young people of all kinds) are the ones who are gonna GENTLY change it. And you know where it starts? With MUSIC.

Don’t be guided by rap. Gangsta or otherwise. Sure.. enjoy it.. adore it.as I do.. but realize this.. rap ain’t about your civil or spiritual rights, baby boys and girls. It.. along with most music nowadays.. is about falsenesses and vanities. Bling, drugs, sex, guns and people- dissing. Its giving you the message you ain’t ‘good enough’ if you don’t have bling and ting.. and money. Or if you’re not what it deems ‘sexy’.

(This is true of all popular music not rap alone. I know. Its tragically true of all popular youth culture the world over).

Poor Curtis Mayfield must be crying all day and night ALL day and night in heaven, every day and night.. To see what has been so successfully achieved by those who sent guns, drugs, and bling to squash the civil rights movement. Now you all don’t have to be murdered by racists any more.. you’re murdering each other FOR them! And your parents and grandparents are left crying.

Go back to strong black musical guides who left you information in the 60s and 70s. when they were living through the civil rights struggle. Curtis Mayfield. The Impressions. Nina Simone, Mahalia Jackson. Sing back the Holy Spirit ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, as those artists did.

Forget bling. Forget “Get Rich Or Die Trying”. That is an evil message. Evil my dears is only life backwards. Turn it the right way up. With music. The messages American black youth are being given through music are not about the spiritual and therefore strong and conquering but PEACEFUL making of YOUR country into the wonderful place it secretly is and can be.. BECAUSE OF YOU, and BY YOU!!

You know not how you are adored, appreciated, valued, loved, cried for,smiled for, prayed for, all over the world. You know not how much inspiration and uplift-ment of heart you give to millions just by your presence on earth.

These musical guides will give you self-esteem. When you have self-esteem you can achieve anything. You can stand in the street as many did yesterday and change your country peacefully and with song. Chant down Babylon as the Rastas say. Rastafari will also give you self esteem. Investigate it.

You will notice, my beautiful sons and daughters, when you study, as you must, footage of all civil rights gatherings, how singing and music and sound and voice and the Holy Spirit were all employed and were so much part of the energy which moved things along.. just as running was in the South African gatherings I saw on tv in my own childhood, which inspired me to survive my own horrors.

What you listen to musically and whether or not you employ the Holy Spirit’s highest will for your life is whats gonna make you transcend all you’re having to suffer (the worst of which is low self-esteem.. or esteem based upon material ‘success’ or ‘sexiness’)) as a result of being the descendants of people who didn’t ask to be stolen and leave you where you are. Delete bling. Get conscious with your music. Demand conscious music from your artists. Go back to the artists who left you proper guidance.

This is some serious stuff and we (all manner of musical artists) are too silent on matters of enormous spiritual importance. Lemme ask you.. Jayzee and Eminem et al. Why was it always the black people only worked in the post rooms of record companies, which was always in the basement? Why was it that as each floor went up the skins got paler till it was fuckin ghosts at the top? And all us artists.. even me.. said nothing? Those buildings (record companies) always struck me as being a microcosm or painting of America, racially speaking. Christ almighty.. if its like that in the music business how is anything ever going to change?

We, musical artists are too silent on important stuff. And it is our job to be the gate-keepers of truth. ALL the people of this earth must come together eventually and see that we are one. ALL artists must stand up. Black, white, yellow, green, pink, fucking polka dot.. and be a light in these times.

The world is going to shift massively this year.. spiritually speaking. Musical artists are to be a massive part of that shift. Get up, lets all of us. And light Jah fire.. and BE lights.

Where’s the fire gone from music? Where is the love? the oneness? The knowing that music CAN and WILL move things in the right spiritual direction without hatred or violence? We must box clever. Sing the devil to sleep at your feet. Thats what Curtis teaches. He is the master of ALL musical masters. forget, forget, forget and forget again bling and guns and drugs and the worship of fame and money. Its time to wake up. We KNOW the power of music. Why aren’t we using it to change anything important?

Musicians all over the world should now gently demand this child’s killer be arrested immediately and the family of Treyvon Martin be immediately apologized to upon bended knee. Frankly. I myself would like an apology! America is a country I love and adore. what this man has done is un-American in the most horrific extreme.

Him not being arrested is extremely embarrassing and does absolutely NOT paint the true picture of of a country and a people who for the 90% majority are the kindest, most loving, intelligent, and wonderful people you could know.

Please.. ALL Americans should deplore this crime. As should ALL people of ALL nations. And deplore the fact this man has not been arrested. All Irish people should do the same. And I ask that we here in Ireland should express through our American embassy that we would like to see this man arrested this very minute. Because racism is not acceptable. Nor is vigilantism. And this was very clearly in no way at all a case of self-defense.

I leave you with some lyrics of Curtis Mayfield’s which I feel are appropriate for this situation. I am certain Curtis would have wanted to contribute to discussion on the issue of Treyvon’s murder and the condition of young black people in America today.. so here goes.. the song is called This Is My Country.. from the album of the same name.

Some people think we don’t have the right
to say its my country
before they give in
they’d rather fuss and fight
than say its my country
I’ve paid three hundred years or more
of slave-driving sweat and welts on my back
This is my country

Hey everyone my name is Noetic J and I believe that this is a tragedy that everyone should become aware about so it does not happen again! I have included the link to my Music Video on behalf of Trayvon Martin and what occurred. Please check it out and if you like it spread the word. Much love.

Sinead’s “letter” was very problematic in many areas, from the concern-trollish “look how much I care versus other blacks!” to the whole “oh you kill each other, listen to rap and do drugs, that’s your problem!”. It went from actually being positive to being condescending and “white savior”.

Peoples remember that history plays a role in the fact finding issues of white America because injustices,freedoms of movement and civil rights can be so hard to be requested within some races time span,so has this been a vision of our lord god ( Adonai,Elohim,Yahweh or Yahshua’s ) plan for future life on earth,now tht is the said question peoples,….

[…] gun in his waistband cloaked itself after police shot him dead in front of his grandmother.2012: Trayvon Martin – no weapon was reported, but the way his killer acted you would think his Arizona iced tea and […]

Zimmerman is out on bail. The murder trial is set for June 10th 2013. He is charged with second-degree murder. Zimmerman is out of money and trying to get it pushed off. He is accepting donations if you want to help.

There will be a hearing in April in which he will try to get the case dismissed on a “Stand Your Ground” defence.

Zimmerman is also suing NBC for editing the 911 tape to make him sound racist. NBC denies that.

Pfft! Anyone supporting a racist killer, that killed a black child, simply because he was black, is a racist.

The people that donated money to zimmerman for his defense, were a bunch of white racists, why else would they support a man, that killed a black teenager?

I could at least understand to a degree, if Trevon was committing a crime and he got killed in the process, then supporting him would be, justified.

Trevon wasn’t committing a crime, he was minding his business and got harassed by a racist, neighborhood watchman with a itchy trigger finger, that couldn’t wait to kill someone.

There isn’t any other reason i can think of, that a white person would support zimmerman, other than they have no compassion for the life of a black child and was apathetic about a black teenager, getting shot to death for no reason, other than walking on a public side walk.

“Waves at Sondis”. There is still much work to be done. Until Zimmerman is convicted and locked up. Trayvon’s family can’t have closure or peace. I pray that justice is carried out for Trayvon’s murder.

Oh my goodness, that is just terrible. Black men have to constantly be on guard around non-Blacks lest they are profiled and killed in an instant due to nothing more than the prejudical, anti-Black male mind-set of the ones who murder them.

This country was never meant for us. Trayvon’s death and Zimmerman’s acquittal just showed me that AmeriKKKlan especially White AmeriKKKlans don’t value Black life. And that racism is still a big issue in this country. The whole Trayvon situation made me very upset about race relations and how Whites sided with George Zimmerman because they felt Trayvon got what he deserved. SMH.

Tell me how was a young, Black boy asking to be killed when he was walking back home from buying Skittles and candy?

I’m reminded of some black Katrina survivors attempting to cross a bridge to get to higher ground that were shot at by their white RACIST neighbors … or the black woman in Staten Island who knocked on a white neighbor’s door asking for help while searching for her babies.

I wonder if black people will ever learn that the police are NOT their friends/public servants. They aren’t here to protect and serve folks with dark skin. THEY ARE NOT TO BE TRUSTED.

Their implicit racism (and training) dictates shooting first, then asking questions … sorting it out later, after the person is dead.

Black folks are not fully human when it comes to most folks with guns and badges — or *white* skin.

Parents. Train your children CORRECTLY about the ways of white people!

Apparently white people are training their children to believe that most/all black people are threatening criminals of some sort.

This has to be one of the most misleading, badly-researched articles on the subject for quite some time.

” It appears that Martin hit him in the nose – his nose was bleeding, there was grass on his back and the back of his head was bleeding.”

I suppose he did this in self-defence after being shot dead. Anyone who thinks that it could be proven beyond reasonable doubt that ZImmerman shot Martin without being attacked is mentally sub-normal. Of course we have pictures of Trayvon Martin as a baby, but no mention of his drug habit. If one of those is relevant, then so is the other.

Trayvon Martin was not 140lbs as described in this crappy article, but was in fact 158lbs in weight as confirmed by the autopsy.

The “they always get away” quote is interesting out of context but it’s nice how the article ignores the fact that Zimmerman had reported a number of people as suspicious including someone who was found in possession of a stolen laptop. So the term ‘they’ doesn’t always mean ‘evil black people’.

“Neighbourhood watches are supposed to report anything strange to the police, not take the law into their own hands and gun down people.”

Because if you were intent on gunning someone down, you’d call the police and talk to them about it?

Of course the stupidity continued in the comments section:

“How awful is it that you can stalk and murder a black boy and get off because of “self-defense” on your word only? And soon we’ll be seeing people trying to rationalize it and say he must’ve earned it somehow.”

On his word only? -And the eyewitness who placed an individual matching Martin’s description on top of Zimmerman, Martin’s use of a racial slur in the phone conversation he was having and CCTV footage showing injuries to Zimmerman’s head.

The case against Zimmerman never had a chance. Had a black man been convicted for murder on evidence as flimsy as this their would quite rightly be an uproar from the African American community.

I think I’ll close with a quote from one of the stupidest comments on here:

“To the white commenters here who try to justify this and play the ” But, no one knows what really happened and we don’t have enough evidence card”
Give it up!
We’re on to all of you. And you know that.”

You know that’s just the sort of exchange that I thought you were against. Where someone effectively says: “Yeah the evidence is wafer thin but I’m on to you because of my own prejudices.” I suppose it is upsetting for some people when the ‘don’t have enough evidence card’ is played in a murder case.

The thing is it’s not a card. It’s a pillar of a free society and due-process. You can’t win it for black people by denying it to a mixed-race man in what was clearly a horrible event.

The quote you are referring too is saying nothing about what can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, but based on that same logic who is to say Martin was not also attacked and then attacked? I think after being followed by someone you don’t really know would provoke and attack once they finally appeared. Martin had pictures of him as a child. Not of him as a baby. AS to a drug habit, you can’t mention something that really has no proof. A habit is a daily routine type thing and he only had a week old trace.

“Trayvon Martin was not 140lbs as described in this crappy article, but was in fact 158lbs in weight as confirmed by the autopsy.”—By all means please feel free to trace the internet and correct every article that placed him at 140lbs.

“The “they always get away” quote is interesting out of context but it’s nice how the article ignores the fact that Zimmerman……’.”—Please list these other people and their race that Zimmerman reported? In the mean time Zimmerman actually caught one robbery in play as I remember it. This is actually what earned him his title.

“Because if you were intent on gunning someone down, you’d call the police and talk to them about it?”—If you are not intent on mischief you would not take your gun and get out the car to begin with, when instructed not to. I notice a pattern of you quoting people and not actually addressing them. Just deflecting.

“On his word only? -And the eyewitness who placed an individual matching Martin’s description on top of Zimmerman, Martin’s use of a racial slur in the phone conversation he was having and CCTV footage showing injuries to Zimmerman’s head.”—–You mean the eyewitness who changed his story from he saw what happened in the dark to he had no idea. One witness out of several others who all say they could not tell what was going on? Okay so you have two witnesses. Zimmerman and one person. Now do explain how using a racial slur equals I attacked you?

“The case against Zimmerman never had a chance. Had a black man been convicted for murder on evidence as flimsy as this their would quite rightly be an uproar from the African American community.”—IT had a change if evidence was collected and not lost. The fact that Zimmerman was allowed to go home after the shooting lost a lot in the processes. Actually this happens often in the black community and said black person sits in jail for years until someone cares to dig deeper.

“You can’t win it for black people by denying it to a mixed-race man in what was clearly a horrible event.”—You can stop with the mixed-race card. The guy does not even claim to be mixed unless for some sympathetic gain. It all plays into what he identifies as and what white people want to throw him as to distance themselves from him. Unless of course you can contact me with someone from the hispanic community who is identifying as mixed-race.

“The quote you are referring too is saying nothing about what can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, but based on that same logic who is to say Martin was not also attacked and then attacked? ”

The police’s lack of ability to prove murder beyond all reasonable doubt is central to this. If you can’t prove a crime beyond all reasonable doubt, then there’s no point in taking it to trial. Most of the comments on here are castigating the police for not doing so and yet the doubt in this case is very reasonable given the content of what I quoted.

Pictures of Martin as a child, when he wasn’t a 158lb, 5’11” man are simply not relevant to the case and it’s unfair to juxtapose them with pictures of Zimmerman in custody. Under oath the medical examiner could not rule out the marijuana influencing Martin’s behaviour.

“By all means please feel free to trace the internet and correct every article that placed him at 140lbs.”

The autopsy said 158lbs. That your ignorance has been repeated across the internet does not lend it any real credibility.

“Please list these other people and their race that Zimmerman reported?”

George Zimmerman only mentioned the race of people he reported when asked to do so.

“If you are not intent on mischief…”

A while ago people were talking as if he were intent on murder. Now I see you’ve been haggled down to ‘mischief’. ‘Mischief’ is not murder and it’s unreasonable to presume from his actions that Zimmerman was intent on murder at that point.

“You mean the eyewitness who changed his story from he saw what happened in the dark to he had no idea.”

Nope. You’re referring to the wrong witness. There was a 13 year old boy who changed his testimony but that is not who I’m referring to. The witness to whom I’m referring did not change his testimony in any way whatsoever. You need to do your research before getting angry about this.

“Now do explain how using a racial slur equals I attacked you?”

I didn’t say that it did. But in trying to understand people’s behaviour, it makes sense to look at what people said. I think that’s why NBC decided to edit phone calls to make it sound as if Zimmerman had volunteered Martin’s race unprompted. It’s also why there was so much anger in the black community, when it was thought that Zimmerman had used the word ‘coon’; an allegation that turned out to be false.

Zimmerman claims that he was attacked. We know that Martin used a racial slur. I seriously hope that no one on here is going to claim that they would be uninterested in the use of a racial slur had it been used by a white person to describe a black person in a situation like this.

“IT had a change if evidence was collected and not lost.”

Here I have some agreement with you. The police could have done a better job of preserving the crime scene. But as it stands at the moment, you can’t prosecute someone on the basis of evidence that you hope was there. I’d be interested to know what evidence you’re hoping for.

“You can stop with the mixed-race card. The guy does not even claim to be mixed unless for some sympathetic gain.”

White Hispanic or mixed race. It doesn’t change my point. This comments section largely comprises the screaming of a mob who want a man to be tried on the basis of flimsy evidence. Unless of course you’re saying that denying a white man a fair trial is what you really want? Anyone with even an ounce of legal understanding can see how hopeless the case was.

You’ve deliberately focused on the term ‘mixed-race’ when that wasn’t the main point of the sentence. The point of it is that we have a mob calling for the conviction of a man who was never going to be proven guilty and I think it’s really sad that people who should know better are now expressing anger that the ‘lack of evidence card’ is being played in murder cases.

“The police’s lack of ability to prove murder beyond all reasonable doubt is central to this.”—Wrong. It is the prosecutors Jobs to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. The job of the police is to collect evidence, preserve the collected evidence, and make the arrest. So the polices lack of ability to do their job thus affects the prosecutors job. What you quoted can place doubt in both ways if you question why the attack.

.”Pictures of Martin as a child, when he wasn’t a 158lb, 5’11” man are simply not relevant to the case and it’s unfair to juxtapose them with pictures of Zimmerman in custody. Under oath the medical examiner could not rule out the marijuana influencing Martin’s behaviour.”—A 17 year old is not a man by legal definition and while it was not relevant or fair it was not illegal. The news media does it all the time. People act like they are credible all the time too based solely on what they wish to believe.

“George Zimmerman only mentioned the race of people he reported when asked to do so.”—That is great, but that is not what I am asking you here. You claimed he reported people of all races and by this claim I am asking you to list said people.

“A while ago people were talking as if he were intent on murder. Now I see you’ve been haggled down to ‘mischief’. ‘Mischief’ is not murder and it’s unreasonable to presume from his actions that Zimmerman was intent on murder at that point.”—Well I am not people and I have never claimed he was intent on murder, so you point here is moot. Though if we are to address the definition of the term you will realize that it also entails meaning harm to one and meaning harm can in turn mean to kill or to hurt in any manner. At any rate it is very same to presume his actions were to do something of harm if he got out of his car with a gun to begin with even at the direction of not to follow.

“I didn’t say that it did.”—I know you didn’t, but you brought it up as if it served a purpose so I am at this point asking you. So far you showed the racial slur to be pointless. A racial slur does not equal I must have attacked you.

“I seriously hope that no one on here is going to claim that they would be uninterested in the use of a racial slur had it been used by a white person to describe a black person in a situation like this.”—I might and I could seeing as not everyone has soft feelings.

“But as it stands at the moment, you can’t prosecute someone on the basis of evidence that you hope was there. I’d be interested to know what evidence you’re hoping for.”—Really? I had no idea. *end sarcasm* It is not matter of DNA I “hope” was there. IF you allow any person to freely walk around a crime scene, go home and clean up, etc. it damages the evidence their. It becomes too tainted to be usable and properly analyzed. Blood patterns change etc.

“It doesn’t change my point.”—What is your point? You stated “You can’t win it for black people by denying it to a mixed-race man in what was clearly a horrible event.” What is it blacks are suppose to win here that they can not achieve by denying a white identified man this due process? How did blacks stop this man from getting due processes?

“Anyone with even an ounce of legal understanding can see how hopeless the case was.”—They could also see the many flaws in this case.

” Unless of course you’re saying that denying a white man a fair trial is what you really want? “—Now he is white again? I have no issues with a fair trial for anyone. What brought you to that idea?

“You’ve deliberately focused on the term ‘mixed-race’ when that wasn’t the main point of the sentence.”—Just as you deliberately made “mixed-race” a part of your point.

“The point of it is that we have a mob calling for the conviction of a man who was never going to be proven guilty and I think it’s really sad that people who should know better are now expressing anger that the ‘lack of evidence card’ is being played in murder cases.”—-People are proven guilty with less all the time, so it is not unreasonable to expect it here. He was never going to be proven guilty on the charges they chose to bring against him, but based on their laws he was most certainly guilty of a crime. At the end of the day it is whatever story the jury believes. Kind of like Casey Anthony.

“So the polices lack of ability to do their job thus affects the prosecutors job.”

So what you’re saying is that you want Zimmerman to be tried on the basis of evidence that has been lost. You talk about doubt “in two ways” but it’s the trial of George Zimmerman that is being called for. And may I ask what sort of evidence you think should have been collected that could have realistically changed things. Nearly all the comments on here and much of the campaigning has centred around calling for Zimmerman to be tried. The bottom line is still there: the case is hopeless.

“while it was not relevant or fair it was not illegal.” So we’re agreed. The article is factually incorrect and biased in its use of visuals.

“I am asking you to list said people.” The list is available online. If you’re trying to draw attention to their skin colour, that is not something that ZImmerman has to explain.

“Well I am not people and I have never claimed he was intent on murder, so you point here is moot…”

Erm no, it’s central to establishing what happened. If you’re arguing that Zimmerman’s actions suggest that he wanted to confront someone whom he considered suspicious, then you’re a doing a good job. Re-branding that potential confrontation as ‘mischief’ or ‘harm’ makes no difference. In any case, getting out of a car while armed on a neighbourhood-watch patrol is not evidence of wanting to hurt someone. Evidence that Zimmerman wanted to confront Martin is not evidence that he wanted to kill him. And it is whether or not Zimmerman wanted to kill Martin without being attacked that is central to this case.

“If you are not intent on mischief you would not take your gun and get out the car to begin with”

Actually if you wanted to confront someone whom you thought was a security-risk, you probably would do that. If he was intent on causing ‘harm’ or ‘mischief’ it’s unlikely that he would have phoned the police about it.

Anyone trying to understand Zimmerman’s actions cannot one minute draw attention to his carrying of a gun (which you might do if wanting to confront someone who could be armed), and the next minute play down his decision to call the police (something you would be very unlikely to do if about to commit a crime).

“At any rate it is very same to presume his actions were to do something of harm if he got out of his car with a gun to begin with even at the direction of not to follow.” That is far from being a reasonable assumption for the reasons described above.. If it were applied universally, half the population of the USA would be in prison for planning to murder people.

“I might and I could seeing as not everyone has soft feelings.” I think you might struggle to find any modern legal precedent where an altercation resulting in death has gone to court with all mention of one party’s use of a racial slur before the incident, being omitted from the trial. I’m sorry but any use of a racial slur by Zimmerman would have been mentioned in the article.

The incorrectly alleged use of a racial slur by Zimmerman was reported on national news. That alone, is testament to the fact that it was considered important. It’s interesting that the author of the article has suddenly decided that racial slurs don’t matter any more. The above article ignores Martin’s use of a racial slur whilst including important information about skittles and iced tea.

But what could they possibly change? The ballistics report was very clear and the injuries to Zimmerman’s head are on camera. And yes we DO have a witness who puts Martin on top of ZImmerman. I think it’s unlikely that Martin was shot and the forced Zimmerman to the ground, punching him in the face in the process and injuring the back of his head. That would have required super-human abilities and no blood-pattern analysis is going to change that. I’m not saying that the crime-scene couldn’t have been better handled. It’s just that a campaign cannot carry the message: “we think lots of evidence has been lost so we now want a person put on trial in the absence of that evidence.”

“Anyone supporting a racist killer, that killed a black child, simply because he was black, is a racist.” Comments like this (not yours) show that a huge section of society has decided that Zimmerman is guilty. Now that you’re pointing out that evidence has been lost that could have proven Zimmerman’s guilt (it almost certainly couldn’t for the reasons described above), I’m glad that you agree with me that these are vile racist comments that presume the guilt of Zimmerman with no real basis.

“What is it blacks are suppose to win here that they can not achieve by denying a white identified man this due process? How did blacks stop this man from getting due processes?”

The majority of the black community in America has been calling for him to be tried and imprisoned even though the case against him was feeble. The NAACP has petitioned the Justice Department to open a case against Zimmerman even though the case is so poor. Many of the comments on here assume ZImmerman’s guilt and I suspect most of the authors don’t actually know much about the case itself.

“Just as you deliberately made “mixed-race” a part of your point.” The emphasis is on him not being black. Don’t ever think that a mob of people screaming for someone to go trial on such a flimsy premise is somehow a defence of freedom and justice. Black people insisting that they know that someone is guilty without a credible case is hardly going to advance civil rights.

“At the end of the day it is whatever story the jury believes. Kind of like Casey Anthony.”

Not when Zimmerman’s account was backed up in part by an independent witness, the injuries to his head and the call he made to the police. None of these factors prove exactly what happened but they rip huge shreds of doubt in the case against him.

“People are proven guilty with less all the time, so it is not unreasonable to expect it here.”

And here we get to the heart of it. There can be no doubt that many African Americans have been imprisoned (and executed) on trumped up charges in a legal system that is the mockery of the developed world. But taking a thousand-and-one African-American grievances and dumping them into the Trayvon Martin case in the hope of sending someone to jail on a very weak basis is never going to help. Presuming someone’s guilt in a murder enquiry because they are black is wrong. African Americans presuming the guilt of a non-black defendant is also wrong and at its worst, racist.

I have campaigned in some of these civil-rights cases, but it didn’t warm my heart to see the African-American community braying for the imprisonment of someone who faced a case that was so full of holes that it would sink without trace when placed under scrutiny. The distortions and inaccuracies in the media have only made the situation worse with death-threats reaching a rate of 400 per minute and retaliatory racist attacks in different parts of America. I’m afraid the above article has added fuel to that bonfire.

“So what you’re saying is that you want Zimmerman to be tried on the basis of evidence that has been lost.”—How about you try not to engage in mind reading and false assumptions Mrs. Cleo. What you quoted was basically a correction in your false idea that it is the duty of the police to prove reasonable doubt. That is actually not their job, but a failure to do their job affects the prosecutors ability to do theirs as well. Nothing more nothing less.
“You talk about doubt “in two ways” but it’s the trial of George Zimmerman that is being called for.”—You may be addressing doubt “in two ways” but in criminal cases we are only referring to one. So what two ways are you talking about?

“And may I ask what sort of evidence you think should have been collected that could have realistically changed things. Nearly all the comments on here and much of the campaigning has centred around calling for Zimmerman to be tried. The bottom line is still there: the case is hopeless.”—The evidence I think should have been collected is the one that is usually collected in murder cases or any case consisting of a crime. Blood slatter, pictures, forensic evidence. Immediately not days later or after suspect had adiquest freedom to damage evidence. I am not indicating more or less than that. I could careless what others have called for as that is irrelevant to the point right now. He was tried, as he should have been, the case WAS hopeless and it is over. But the hopelessness of said case rest on flaws primarily the result of the police.

“The article is factually incorrect and biased in its use of visuals.”—We are partially agreed as it is not an article it is a blog post, but it still does not set aside the fact that you will thus need to contact all blogs and articles to complain about the same presented information.

“The list is available online. If you’re trying to draw attention to their skin colour, that is not something that ZImmerman has to explain.”—Again you made the claim, and I will quote you, “The “they always get away” quote is interesting out of context but it’s nice how the article ignores the fact that Zimmerman……’”—I don’t need to ask Zimmerman for this fact you claimed. I am asking you as you claimed it. I really don’t care about their race and I am not interested in drawing attention to their race, but you were all too quick to make their race and issue in efforts to claim Zimmerman is not biased and when asked to support you backpeddle. Show a slight bit of honesty here.

“Erm no, it’s central to establishing what happened…… Re-branding that potential confrontation as ‘mischief’ or ‘harm’ makes no difference.”—Sorry bud but no cigar here. You can’t argue what others have called it as a basis for me re-branding. You are going to argue my points or others points, but not both. As such what I said above still stands.

“In any case, getting out of a car while armed on a neighbourhood-watch patrol is not evidence of wanting to hurt someone. Evidence that Zimmerman wanted to confront Martin is not evidence that he wanted to kill him. And it is whether or not Zimmerman wanted to kill Martin without being attacked that is central to this case.”—Partially agree here. It is not proof he wanted to hurt someone, but it is evidence he intended to have to use it, thus he anticipated he expected something to happen. Circumstantial evidence, but evidence none the less. The severity of the charge rested on whether or not he wanted to kill Martin or his intent. It did not matter whether or not he wanted to kill him without being attacked or not.

“Actually if you wanted to confront someone whom you thought was a security-risk, you probably would do that. If he was intent on causing ‘harm’ or ‘mischief’ it’s unlikely that he would have phoned the police about it.”—No necessarily. A person can all the police to simply make note of what is going on to later justify a call to act too. In this case he was asked not to follow and was told police was on the way. He did not need to act, yet made the choice to do so. This is not an indication of a man who had not intent what so ever. His brand of mischief could have been as simple as trying to detain Martin and having things get out of hand.

“Anyone trying to understand Zimmerman’s actions cannot one minute draw attention to his carrying of a gun (which you might do if wanting to confront someone who could be armed), and the next minute play down his decision to call the police (something you would be very unlikely to do if about to commit a crime).”—-You are wrong. Being intent on Mischief does not equate to crime. It also mean bad behavior and part of the reason you can not see past this is your are linking one thing to mean the other. With that being said a person can all the police and engage in mischievous acts with the idea that it is not mischievous.

“That is far from being a reasonable assumption for the reasons described above.. If it were applied universally, half the population of the USA would be in prison for planning to murder people.”—Well your reasons above were flimsy. I know plenty of cases where the person called the police and murdered an individual (vise versa) and then use the calling of the police for a cover of their actions. It happens. I doubt it because half the population does not call the police and act when told not to.

“I think you might struggle to find any modern legal precedent where an altercation resulting in death has gone to court with all mention of one party’s use of a racial slur before the incident, being omitted from the trial. I’m sorry but any use of a racial slur by Zimmerman would have been mentioned in the article.”—-What are you even talking about here? You stated “I seriously hope that no one on here is going to claim that they would be uninterested in the use of a racial slur had it been used by a white person to describe a black person in a situation like this.” My response to this was “I might and I could seeing as not everyone has soft feelings.” Which you quoted and turned around and gave a response irrelevant to that. My response to the new act of deflection is racial slurs are only relevant in hate crime trials. In other trials it is just information used to sway the emotions of a jury. Just like when rape trials bring up past relationships of the rape victim.

“The incorrectly alleged use of a racial slur by Zimmerman was reported on national news…..”—Nothing on national news is important beyond ratings. If you think otherwise hmmm….

“But what could they possibly change?”—It does not take people to change things, nor am I even sure how you drew that conclusion from my quote. Reread what I said and try again. DNA evidence, blood splatter, and things of that nature can easily be lost if the wind blows, it rains, or a suspect has been allowed to dust himself off or move the body. Zimmerman’s injuries where documented a day later. All ir