But the left-wing democrats said that these were their best friends and as with all Communist were the kind of people that they admired. ===== Yeah, just go back and review all the pictures of Bonnie and Clyde pandering to the Viet Namese COMMIES before they were 'thrown out of the White House'. Only the COMMIES, and other enemies of America, want anything to do with the far-left.

I've never been able to decide whether or not there was any ratinoal cause in Nam. I've seen interviews with South Vietnamese who claimed they were sharecroppers under the old regime with no possibility of owning land, that the VC split up and old plantatations and pretty much gave them the land that they'd been working forever, and that then the south (temporarily) retook the area and immediately gave all the land back to the absentee landlords.

That sort of thing coupled with the way the war was being prosecuted by our side pretty much killed any political support for the war in the US. A real war between the US and North Vietnam should last a year, tops. Moreover, there is no rational way anybody can ask draftees to fight in such a thing or draft the boy next door and tell him it's somehow or other his patriotic duty to go into harms way for something which clearly amounts to a geopolitical game with no semblence of a declaration of war or a real commitment.

That was the problem. Ronald Reagan finally figured out that you play geopolitical games with petty cash and a few handsfull of professional soldiers and soldiers of fortune, and not with vast sums of treasure and tens of thousands of draftees and, for that reason, unlike the presidencies of LBJ or Nixon, Reagan's presidency will go into the books as a success story.

That sort of thing coupled with the way the war was being prosecuted by our side pretty much killed any political support for the war in the US.

That was always part of the problem with our war against Communism. The enemies of Communism were usually corrupt. They were usually much better than the Communists, but most had serious issues. The Communists slaughtered well over a million people after the end of the war. Communist regimes throughout the world slaughter 100 million people in the 20th Century. So as bad as the people we supported were, they usually could not hold a candle to how evil Communists were.

That sort of thing coupled with the way the war was being prosecuted by our side pretty much killed any political support for the war in the US. A real war between the US and North Vietnam should last a year, tops. Moreover, there is no rational way anybody can ask draftees to fight in such a thing or draft the boy next door and tell him it's somehow or other his patriotic duty to go into harms way for something which clearly amounts to a geopolitical game with no semblence of a declaration of war or a real commitment. ====== Well put. Nam was a disaster and a tragic waste of our soldiers lives, in monumental proportions, because it was a war that was NOT FOUGHT TO BE WON, just scripted by politicians and not to be fought and won by military commanders. Washington politics out of control.

Who the heck took these pictures? How did they get them out? I have no doubt this is exactly what goes on in Socialist reeducation camps, but I'm doubtful about the specific photos themselves. How did they get these photos out? What time frame? Which camp? Location? It almost looks like a movie set to me.

It is evident that the left has brain washed several people. The South Vietnamese left the country by the millions when the North took over and many ofthose remaining were placed in reeducation camps. The North took over when they violated the peace treaty signed in Paris and after the US Congress cut off funds. Further, there were no Viet Cong left (or very few) after TET 1968 and those that were left were discarded by the North Vietnamese. If the military had been allowed to fight a war with the North it would have been over in months. The military was not allowed to fight to win and as such we lost over 58,000 and still counting. The cause was to gain freedom for the people of South Vietnam. Any lies that you read about giving land to the South Vietnameseby by the Communist North is mostly that, lies. Do not believe the press in the United States as they must maintain the lies to make sure that their position on the war was justified. The war was against Communism there are NO good Communist the Communist of the world were and still are trying to destroy the United States.

the VC split up and old plantatations and pretty much gave them the land that they'd been working forever

Just for a history correction, immediately after 1975 the Hanoi regime seized my mother-in-law's 600 hectares of property near Sa Dec and all of father-in-law's family properties near Ha Tien.

Then to make sure they'd missed nothing, the NVA then went repeatedly through Southern cities, towns and villages with metal detectors searching for even the smallest holdings of family gold. They'd tear up your walls and yard looking for even a single tael.

A real war between the US and North Vietnam should last a year, tops.

For comparison, when the NVA (all draftees) finally went after the Khmer Rouge, they took Phnom Penh in one week, start to finish.

The South Vietnamese left the country by the millions when the North took over and many ofthose remaining were placed in reeducation camps.

In addition, millions of *North* Vietnamese left North Vietnam after 1954, when the handwriting was on the wall that the Viet Minh were going to launch an aggressive Communist progrom of land seizures and persecutions.

Even people like Nguyen Kao Ky were originally from the Hanoi area. Catholics left North Vietnam in droves.

Its estimated that 600,000 South Vietnamese folks went for reeducation after 1975. Sentences were in multiples of 3 years, e.g., if your weren't properly compliant after 3 years, you got another 3.

Officers and government officials received longer sentences, 15 years being a norm.

Through wifey, I know lots of guys who got 3 years, and lots who got 15 years. At least two members of her family returned permanently crippled.

Strawman arguement... Please give me documented proof that people are sent to camps in Vietnam for simply being Christian. Sorry, it does not happen. There is plenty of proof of Nazi prosecution of Jews.

Unfortunately you are absolutely wrong. People are sent to "re-education" camps all over the world simply because they are Christian. Vietnam is only one country that persecutes believers in Jesus.

So please give me documented proof, from a non-Christian group, of this currently happening in Vietnam. I am not talking about people being prosecuted who happen to be Christian, but where their only crime is being Christian.

"Wishful thinking. No one is sent to a re-education camp simply for being Christian."

Are YOU engaging in wishful thinking or are you being willfully ignorant. Communists send people to the camps for being educated. The Khmer Rouge suffocated people with plastic bags simply because the victims wore glasses. Communists kill and imprison just because they feel like it and atheist communists loathe Christianity.

Are YOU engaging in wishful thinking or are you being willfully ignorant. Communists send people to the camps for being educated. The Khmer Rouge suffocated people with plastic bags simply because the victims wore glasses. Communists kill and imprison just because they feel like it and atheist communists loathe Christianity.

Strawman argument. The Khmer Rouge were not Vietnamese. Among others, the Khmer Rouge specifically targetted Cambodians who were ethnically Vietnamese. FYI, the Vietnamese are the ones who put an end to the Khmer Rouge genocide in Cambodia.

Again, please provide documented evidence, from a non-Christian source, of people currently being sent to re-education camps in Vietnam simply for being Christian.

This must be an example of what Uncle Ho refered to as a "Workers Paradise". Cambodia is still recovering from Pol Pots version of marxist nirvana.I'm sure John Kerry,Jane Fonda,etc are proud of their handiwork!

I doubt if anyone can provide you with that information. The current Vietnamese government has a poor human rights record, but the idea that anyone is being sent to a reeducation camp simply for being a Christian is nonsense. Viet Nam has a huge Roman Catholic population (6 to 8 million people, the second largest number in any country in Asia after the Philippines); there are large seminaries in both Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh City, and in addition to the Catholic Church, the Vietnamese government officially recognizes the Christian Missionary Alliance and the Southern Evangelical Church of Viet Nam.

Viet Nam needs to make major improvements in religious freedom, but anyone interested in a balanced and accurate description of the current relationship between the Vietnamese government and religious organizations might want to read the International Religious Freedom Report 2003 from the U.S. Department of State at this address:

I've never been able to decide whether or not there was any ratinoal cause in Nam. I've seen interviews with South Vietnamese who claimed they were sharecroppers under the old regime with no possibility of owning land, that the VC split up and old plantatations and pretty much gave them the land that they'd been working forever, and that then the south (temporarily) retook the area and immediately gave all the land back to the absentee landlords.

It's called private property, and in our country it's protected by the Constitution at least it was. But the VC never really held much land, by the time the communists did hold significant areas of land, the VC were no more (basically they were no more after Tet '68). The VC did "tax" the peasants, (In the way the Danes or the Barbary pirates taxed folks) and if you didn't pay your taxes, they came in and killed you.

The "agrarian reformer" tall tale has been told by many a communist movement. Fidel's for instance. In the end, the state owns everything, and the peasants are then really sharecroppers, with no civil rights at all. Eventually the government makes such hash of things, everyone starves, either through mismanagement and corruption (See Cuba, Russia, N. Korea) or as deliberate policy (Ukraine, Georgia etc)

41
posted on 04/04/2005 9:03:32 PM PDT
by El Gato
(Activist Judges can twist the Constitution into anything they want ... or so they think.)

It is evident that the left has brain washed several people. The South Vietnamese left the country by the millions when the North took over and many ofthose remaining were placed in reeducation camps

Yes and not only supporters of the Southern goverment, but ex VC as well, after they figured out that their fraternal socialist brothers from the North did not have the interestes of the Southerners at heart, and after they say what the Northern bastards had in mind.

42
posted on 04/04/2005 9:15:30 PM PDT
by El Gato
(Activist Judges can twist the Constitution into anything they want ... or so they think.)

(NOTE: The pictures of a vietnamese communist re-education camp posted on this thread are scenes from this Motion Picture, for t'was I who was blessed to view today's most timely Motion Picture Preview right where I used to ride my Schwinn Bycycle around as a little boy)

That is about the most stupid uneducated [piece I have read. I (me) personally talked to many of the Roman Catholic Vietnamese who fled south after the Communist took over the North. I did not find one who would want to live under the control of the non humans (Communist). There were somewhere between 3 to 5 million that fled Vietnam when the non humans took over and there has NEVER been a Communist regime that has allowed any other religion except for the worship of Stalin, the state or others of the devil breed.

Since 1975 the communist government has not opposed Buddhism but rather has attempted to manipulate it to support political goals, and with some success. Just like the other Commie gov in the world they manipulate the religion to meet their state beliefs.

Since 1975 the communist government has not opposed Buddhism but rather has attempted to manipulate it to support political goals, and with some success. Just like the other Commie gov in the world they manipulate the religion to meet their state beliefs.

LOL. Ever been to Laos? Ever talk to any Monks there? Ever attend any religious ceremonies there? I have. The government has used religion to further some of their own goals, but has in no way prohibited religion from being freely practiced.

Of course everything is not perfect, far from it. For example, there are two sets of donation boxes at Temples. The 'main' donation box, which most foreigners will donate into, is collected and kept by the government. The smaller box, usually off to the side, is kept by the Monks and used by them. It is a hindrance, but they in no way prevent the monks, or common people, from going about their worshiping. It is a far cry from your statement about communist nations never allowing any religious worship.

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