Titel: NEW: kanotix will no longer be based on debian sid Verfasst am: 29.11.2006, 15:18 Uhr

Anmeldung: 19. Nov 2006
Beiträge: 29
Wohnort: frankfurt

it seems to be definitive that kanotix will no longer be based on debian-sid. kano decided - for economical and stability reasons - to build his distribution on another basis instead. probably the ubuntu repos. that's why slh (co-developer/maintainer) left the project and slam (webmaster) will follow soon. slam will be engaged in a new sid-project in the future.

In passed the days the budding rumors harm the project and its Community. In particular lengthily expanded speculations are suitable over the end of KANOTIX in the forum or IRC for disconcerting less arrivierte users and/or new verscheuchen. To spread or feed I appeliere therefore to all here in the interest of the KANOTIX of project no further rumors.

Kano has after 3 years of hard work (often day and night) decided changes to make. Not least also because it must secure its commercial/vocational basis, to which the KANOTIX project could not contribute unfortunately. It will not provide therefore in the future no more to KANOTIX based on Debian Sid. It examines the alternatives at present, a decision in addition actual so far I white - yet not met. As soon as somewhat user is certain rely can on the KANOTIX, Kano will surely clearly express itself in addition.

This decision is substantial for each user, in addition, for each Developer and for all team members. Everyone must even in peace examine and decide which it by its operating system expected and/or naturally also, where and which he is ready in a Community voluntarily to bring in.

I believe that a Etch or Edgy based KANOTIX surely finds and for many of advantage be can its target group. It will attract most likely also new users, who are not content with Kubuntu or Mepis. It is thus very well possible drauf something solid to construct - also commercial possibilities are open.

I personally am however bound for vocational and world-descriptive reasons at Debian Sid, and can begin therefore with the above options nothing. My loyalty and acknowledgment apply further for Kano, I it therefore at least until next year in the context of my possibilities will here continue to support. I do not hide however also that at the same time I (beside other open SOURCE projects in which I already longer cooperate) with a new project engage myself, which develops on pure Debian Sid. A majority of my energy and time will in the future flow there therefore.

I learned from Kano and the great KANOTIX Community in the past years much and am sincerely grateful for it.

it seems to be definitive that kanotix will no longer be based on debian-sid. kano decided - for economical and stability reasons - to build his distribution on another basis instead. probably the ubuntu repos. that's why slh (co-developer/maintainer) left the project and slam (webmaster) will follow soon. slam will be engaged in a new sid-project in the future.

(I've been concerned lately about Kanotix, because it's been almost a year now w/o a new release. SLH leaving greatly increased that concern -- something's up with the direction Kanotix is going.

OTOH, my concerns are selfish, in that I can't contribute much to the project.

It would be nice to have more information in English about what's going on, though.)

Daniele

Titel:Verfasst am: 29.11.2006, 22:16 Uhr

Anmeldung: 23. Mai 2004
Beiträge: 414
Wohnort: Italy

eco2geek hat folgendes geschrieben::

something's up with the direction Kanotix is going.

OTOH, my concerns are selfish, in that I can't contribute much to the project.

The idea I have of the situation, also after reading the German forums: there is a *very strong* difference of opinion between the ones who support Sid and the ones who want something else. Problem is, Kano doesn't want to base Kanotix on Debian Sid any longer. If he takes the "Etch way", I'll support him 100/%
But if he takes the Ubuntu way, that is the end of Kanotix for me.

As to contributing to a project, there are so many ways...

In the past, typically my contribution to Linux distros was hundreds, maybe thousands of posts to help fellow users.

As to Kanotix, in the past my contribution was financial. However when I bought new hardware, I couldn't use Kanotix any longer, at least for a few months. I am of the opinion that you donate to projects you use.

There are many reasons not to want to go with an Ubuntu-based distro, and IMO the biggest is, instead of using a distro that "mines" Debian (or "leeches" from it, if you prefer), why not just use and support Debian in the first place.

(Off-topic, one strength that *buntu has -- probably the main reason for its popularity -- is that it actively tries to make things easy/easier for newbies. One thing I've wanted to see for a while now is a sort of "Sid Watch" web site where clever people explain how to get past the inevitable bumps in Sid -- kind of like Devil and Etorix do here.)

I admit I've been reprehensibly lax about supporting Kanotix with money.

titan

Titel:Verfasst am: 29.11.2006, 22:47 Uhr

Anmeldung: 07. Mai 2005
Beiträge: 526
Wohnort: Waliser Märze

It would be nice to get some facts rather than just guess work. I don't think I would like any future Kanotix or whatever the new version is called based on anything other than pure Debian. I could go with testing but not Ubuntu but lets see what the future holds. Whatever the future thanks to Kano,SLH and others for producing one of the best Linux distros ever.

slam

Titel:Verfasst am: 29.11.2006, 23:09 Uhr

Anmeldung: 05. Okt 2004
Beiträge: 2069
Wohnort: w3

Sorry, folks for not posting immediately an English translation to my German post - my day was packed with work outside the Linux world. Just in case piper's (babel-)fishy translation included confusing stuff, I will summarize the important parts here for you now (and add some stuff for English speakers only):

There have been wild rumors the last days here in the forums, the IRC and even on outside sites, and I feel that letting them continue could harm the KANOTIX project and it's Community. In particular lengthily expanded speculations over a possible end of KANOTIX have been suitable to distract people. In the interest of KANOTIX and in respect to Kano I ask you to please stop seeding, spreading or feeding such.

After 3 years of hard work (often day and night) Kano decided to do some important changes. One of his motivations to do so is to secure a financial and professional future for him, as the KANOTIX project unfortunately was not able to provide that. He will not any more base KANOTIX on Debian Sid. He is examining alternatives at present, a decision has yet not been met - as far as I know. As soon as there is information the community could rely on with certainty, Kano definitely will inform everybody.

This decision is substantial for each user, and in addition, also for each developer and all team members. Everyone must examine and decide his expectations from his operating system, and of course also where and in which community he is willing to volunteer and contribute.

I believe that a Etch or Edgy based KANOTIX will be a nice system with many advantages for many of you. It will additionally most likely attract new users, who are not 100% happy with Kubuntu or Mepis. I feel that it would be a fine base for many options - also commercial possibilities are open.

I personally am however bound to Debian Sid for professional and political reasons, and therefore have no use for such a product. My loyalty and acknowledgment for Kano remain untouched; Therefore at least until next year I will be around and continue to support Kano. But I'll not hide however the fact that at the same time (besides other open SOURCE projects I am involved in for a long time) I engaged myself in a new project, which develops a pure Debian Sid system. A majority of my energy and time in the future will flow into that. In respect to Kano and his work I will not advertise links to this project here or in the IRC and would ask everybody else to do the same.

Kano and the great KANOTIX Community have been a great source of inspiration and learning in the past years much and I am sincerely grateful for that.

Ah yes, a successor for my work is wanted! Of course I will be around to help securing a smooth transition.

There are many reasons not to want to go with an Ubuntu-based distro, and IMO the biggest is, instead of using a distro that "mines" Debian (or "leeches" from it, if you prefer), why not just use and support Debian in the first place.

I agree, absolutely. Supporting Ubuntu means supporting a parasite. Not to mention that Debian is so much better anyway, with its 3 branches (without taking experimental into account), loads of external repos...

Zitat:

One thing I've wanted to see for a while now is a sort of "Sid Watch" web site where clever people explain how to get past the inevitable bumps in Sid -- kind of like Devil and Etorix do here.

Trouble is, Debian doesn't support the use of a pure Sid based system, never did.

I very much appreciate Slam posting here in English. I for one have been translating like mad with Google what was necessary from the German forum.

I have stuck with Kanotix because of and in spite of it being Sid. IF it wasn't Sid, I could manage Debian testing on my own for the most part. I could certainly handle stable. Who couldn't?

I want to thank everybody involved, too. Developers AND community that pitches in. Not sure what the future linux holds though for me I believe it is probably just going with Etch right through until he is stable.

Kanotix made unstable stable for me. You know what I mean? I don't have the time to acquire the skill - I wish I could fix the breakages myself. And I wish things had gone better that I could've scraped some cash together. I am more than willing to pay for support but the bank account isn't

thanks to Kano and the whole team and I will certainly try out anything team members go for in developing a Sid fork. I will not go for any *buntu stuff. Have been looking in on their forums, etc and it is just sooooo out there from Debian. Not for me. I believe I am better than that. Not much. But can definitely linux better than their average user

Thanks again and I hope everyone involved with Kanotix prospers and is happy with their decisions!

Nish

gs

Titel:Verfasst am: 30.11.2006, 06:39 Uhr

Anmeldung: 06. Jan 2005
Beiträge: 634

as is evident from SLAMs post there are different interests and needs and various avenues to go.

In the past I have looked at SuSE, Mandrake, Mepis, etc, and, of course (k)Ubuntu. What I looked for was a linux-distro which could replace Windows and what I found was KANOTIX. Only Kanotix was able to support, in most cases, "out of the box" my hardware on several computers, and if something, exceptionally, did not work, there is the forum with immediate and friendly help....

I am sure: whatever Kano and coworkers will develop in the future it will have the "Kano-features": excellent hardware recognition and helpful scripts, and a supportive forum as is now.
Other than nish - last post - I would not be able to handel Sid without prominent help, but I, really, do no need Sid. Like many users I need a linux distro which works on my computer, let me write, surf, phone, watch television and DVDs etc. This is what the present Kanotix gives me and what - I am sure - a future Kanotix will give me as well.
As to the thrill involved in playing with Sid, breaking things and getting them going again, there will always possibilities around, may be with Slams new project.
Therefore, folks, lets wait and see and, possibly, be surprised what develops......

I have learned a lot along the way. A big " thankyou" to Kano and to all who have helped him! And good luck.....

bobdawn

Titel:Verfasst am: 30.11.2006, 07:15 Uhr

Anmeldung: 01. Aug 2006
Beiträge: 17
Wohnort: Gold Coast Australia

I came here from Mepis. My needs are a Debian base, KDE (I've tried Gnome, but don't like it), up-to-date software, h2 and the other Kanotix scripts and that wonderful, helpful and friendly community.

I'm watching developments with interest (from sunny Queensland), but I'm happy to follow the good guys, wherever they decide to go, although I'd worry if they followed Mark Shuttleworth in trying to fork Debian. I think that (like Novell) he has his own agenda.

By the way, like piper, I'm medical, too, and I'm prepared to take a few risks along the way.

Kano and his team deserve all our gratitude and support.

drb

Titel:Verfasst am: 30.11.2006, 09:20 Uhr

Anmeldung: 03. Jul 2004
Beiträge: 525

For those with a 'stable' 'unstable' OS on their PCs, is there a transition process from Sid to Etch without a reinstall. Is 'Kanotix' limited to scripts (which the user can decide to run or not) and configurations (which can be changed)?

Wow what a sad day!
As has been said its time we all reexamine out own motivations... but non of this would have been possible without all of the team ...

I tried kubuntu and ... I have to say I have problems.
Non of these in itself are insurmountable but....
One one level there is the moral issue someone said 'leeching' perhaps that's apt or not but its close...
On a completely seperate issue is the fact ubuntu is becoming less and less Debian ... Im not sure if this is by choice, I rather suspect it is more by design...

I have my personal pet theory on this... Shuttleworth decided that the users shouldn't have to type a password and asked some knowledgable people if it was possible... they said yep and off they went..

When you look into trying to remove the sudu stuff from (K)ununtu its a nightmare, indeed I think most of the -ubuntu packages are just a consequence of this chain reaction and hte deeper you look the deeper it goes... its not so much the apps that *need* sudo but then the libs they depend on and then other apps usng these libs..

Its just MHO but sooner or later this chain reaction will become a meltdown...
i actually tried backing out the mods but again IMVHO its easier to start with unstable and work forwards than Ubuntu and work backwards...

wegface

Titel:Verfasst am: 30.11.2006, 19:35 Uhr

Anmeldung: 02. Nov 2005
Beiträge: 127

Kind of knew this would happen eventually- the clues have been there a while. But still shocked to hear its now. Finding another (reasonably) small distro, of this calibre will prove tricky.
Tough call on the best course of action too, Ubuntu is an ugly word to alot of debian users, but etch (although not too far behind) can prove frustrating when used to sid. And Sid without the help of a tight nit, and fairly small community is probably too much hassle for me. Debian forums are huge and you dont get any "dont dist-upgrade today" warnings or quick fixes.
To everyone at Kanotix, i say a big thankyou, and i only hope our relationship can continue. Peace.