White people spend a lot of time of worrying about poor people. It takes up a pretty significant portion of their day.They feel guilty and sad that poor people shop at Wal*Mart instead of Whole Foods, that they vote Republican instead of Democratic, that they go to Community College/get a job instead of studying art at a University.It is a poorly guarded secret that, deep down, white people believe if given money and education that all poor people would be EXACTLY like them. In fact, the only reason that poor people make the choices they do is because they have not been given the means to make the right choices and care about the right things.A great way to make white people feel good is to tell them about situations where poor people changed how they were doing things because they were given the 'whiter' option. "Back in my old town, people used to shop at Wal*Mart and then this non-profit organization came in and set up a special farmers co-op so that we could buy more local produce, and within two weeks the Wal*Mart shut down and we elected our first Democratic representative in 40 years." White people will first ask which non-profit and are they hiring? After that, they will be filled with euphoria and will invite you to more parties to tell this story to their friends, so that they can feel great.But it is ESSENTIAL that you reassert that poor people do not make decisions based on free will. That news could crush white people and their hope for the future.

albuquerquehalsey:White people spend a lot of time of worrying about poor people. It takes up a pretty significant portion of their day.They feel guilty and sad that poor people shop at Wal*Mart instead of Whole Foods, that they vote Republican instead of Democratic, that they go to Community College/get a job instead of studying art at a University.It is a poorly guarded secret that, deep down, white people believe if given money and education that all poor people would be EXACTLY like them. In fact, the only reason that poor people make the choices they do is because they have not been given the means to make the right choices and care about the right things.A great way to make white people feel good is to tell them about situations where poor people changed how they were doing things because they were given the 'whiter' option. "Back in my old town, people used to shop at Wal*Mart and then this non-profit organization came in and set up a special farmers co-op so that we could buy more local produce, and within two weeks the Wal*Mart shut down and we elected our first Democratic representative in 40 years." White people will first ask which non-profit and are they hiring? After that, they will be filled with euphoria and will invite you to more parties to tell this story to their friends, so that they can feel great.But it is ESSENTIAL that you reassert that poor people do not make decisions based on free will. That news could crush white people and their hope for the future.

Hey man, I'd rather shop at Walmart than Whole Foods. I can shop at the first Whole Foods built ever and the people there make me want to puke more than the people at the Walmart. I farking hate this city sometimes. The smug is oppressing sometimes.

It's a convenience thing. If someone ran a drive through with decent food, maybe it'd take off. But it'd cost too much. Hell, I paid almost $8 for a combo burger meal at Jack in the Box. Burger, fries, and drink. I couldn't help myself, I went for just two tacos for $2, but there was a big picture of a burger and it said "bacon built right in!" So, you understand I had to get it.

shtychkn:fusillade762: But more than that, he says, many people, particularly in low-income food deserts, just aren't used to buying or preparing healthy meals

I think only in America will you find poor people who don't know how to cook.

Its a testament to how well off America really is.

Or that American corporations keep their food cheap by cutting corners however they can, while American wages stagnate and food prices continue to rise. Not to mention that many poor people have to work more than one job, so they simply don't have the time or energy to prepare a meal.

"Poor people are fat" is on the same level as "Poor people have refrigerators". It's a convenient statistic that idiots like to use (without knowing the full context) so they feel better about their politicians shiatting on the poor.

I've been seeing these "lets end food deserts" ads on TV quite a bit and I've been wondering where exactly are the grocery store that don't sell vegetables? I've been to stores in some pretty poor neighborhoods and I've never seen one that didn't. Even if their selection of fresh produce was limited, they always have frozen, which for most vegetables is just as healthy as fresh.

The problem isn't access to healthy food, it's getting people to change their habits. If you didn't grow up eating vegetables and healthy food then your not likely to do it as an adult.

By my general experience, lower and middle income neighborhoods, especially Mexican and Asian ones, have some of the best produce and eats on the planet. Thing is, they generally don't put up high end stuff or things that are 'made' in the store that almost no one ever eats (grocery store or gas station sushi anyone?). You get the straight skinny, grab the stuff, and you make it. Much like many of those immigrants and first generationers that run that store in the first place.

Somehow, someway, alot of low income people here that have grown up in America, just by my experience, equate veggies with no flavor and essentially starving yourself to death. This is where McDonald's and WalMart come in, to, you know, 'better our neighborhoods'.

ReapTheChaos:I've been seeing these "lets end food deserts" ads on TV quite a bit and I've been wondering where exactly are the grocery store that don't sell vegetables? I've been to stores in some pretty poor neighborhoods and I've never seen one that didn't. Even if their selection of fresh produce was limited, they always have frozen, which for most vegetables is just as healthy as fresh.

The problem isn't access to healthy food, it's getting people to change their habits. If you didn't grow up eating vegetables and healthy food then your not likely to do it as an adult.

I know anecdotal evidence is flimsy, but I work in downtown Stockton, CA. and I'm willing to make a bet. Let's stand on the steps of City Hall, and I'll give you an hour to walk to a store and buy lettuce, carrots, potatoes, bananas, apples, a gallon of milk, and then walk back. I know that within 20 minutes you can get a payday loan and buy a fifth of Jack, but that's a different bet.

blindpreacher:Proof that poor people are poor by choice. If they aren't even motivated enough to practice proper nutrition then they really are to blame for their own circumstances.

Thanks to our corporatist government and greedy, corner-cutting corporations, fast food prices are artificially low, while fresh food prices have risen. And since poor peoples' wages are so low (and many have to work multiple jobs just to keep a roof over their head), they simply can't afford the money OR time it takes to eat healthy.

But thanks for proving my "Idiots use obesity as a reason to justify their hatred for poor people" point.

Notabunny:ReapTheChaos: I've been seeing these "lets end food deserts" ads on TV quite a bit and I've been wondering where exactly are the grocery store that don't sell vegetables? I've been to stores in some pretty poor neighborhoods and I've never seen one that didn't. Even if their selection of fresh produce was limited, they always have frozen, which for most vegetables is just as healthy as fresh.

The problem isn't access to healthy food, it's getting people to change their habits. If you didn't grow up eating vegetables and healthy food then your not likely to do it as an adult.

I know anecdotal evidence is flimsy, but I work in downtown Stockton, CA. and I'm willing to make a bet. Let's stand on the steps of City Hall, and I'll give you an hour to walk to a store and buy lettuce, carrots, potatoes, bananas, apples, a gallon of milk, and then walk back. I know that within 20 minutes you can get a payday loan and buy a fifth of Jack, but that's a different bet.

In downtown Chicago, you could get the apples, bananas, carrots and milk in less than ten minutes thanks to the wide selection of fresh food at Walgreens and 7-11. Could probably get eggs and a pre-made salad too.

fusillade762:But more than that, he says, many people, particularly in low-income food deserts, just aren't used to buying or preparing healthy meals

I think only in America will you find poor people who don't know how to cook.

America is one of the few places that poor people have the luxury of not having to know how to cook. In most of the world the destitute don't have a McDonalds, KFC, and Little Caesars around the block. If they did, they'd probably develop eating habits very similar to the poor in the US - fast food places are exceptionally good at providing a lot of calories on the cheap.

Providing access to healthy food is an important step, but it has to be combined with education on how to prepare the stuff and why it's important to do so. Cooking anything takes more time and effort than walking up to a counter and buying a fully prepared meal. A single parent working two jobs while trying to raise a couple of kids doesn't have a lot of free time to play in the kitchen.

Added to that they may not even have the necessary pots, pans, utensils and pantry ingredients to turn raw foods into a tasty dinner.

fusillade762:But more than that, he says, many people, particularly in low-income food deserts, just aren't used to buying or preparing healthy meals

I think only in America will you find poor people who don't know how to cook.

It's not a matter of know, it's a matter of when you work three jobs, you don't have time to shop or cook.

Also fast food places sell TINY salads for WAY TOO MUCH. If you really want people to be healthy, offer big, cheap salads with a lot of lettuce. A free apple with every value meal for 10 cents more. Y'know, shiat like that.

Notabunny:ReapTheChaos: I've been seeing these "lets end food deserts" ads on TV quite a bit and I've been wondering where exactly are the grocery store that don't sell vegetables? I've been to stores in some pretty poor neighborhoods and I've never seen one that didn't. Even if their selection of fresh produce was limited, they always have frozen, which for most vegetables is just as healthy as fresh.

The problem isn't access to healthy food, it's getting people to change their habits. If you didn't grow up eating vegetables and healthy food then your not likely to do it as an adult.

I know anecdotal evidence is flimsy, but I work in downtown Stockton, CA. and I'm willing to make a bet. Let's stand on the steps of City Hall, and I'll give you an hour to walk to a store and buy lettuce, carrots, potatoes, bananas, apples, a gallon of milk, and then walk back. I know that within 20 minutes you can get a payday loan and buy a fifth of Jack, but that's a different bet.

albuquerquehalsey:White people spend a lot of time of worrying about poor people. It takes up a pretty significant portion of their day.They feel guilty and sad that poor people shop at Wal*Mart instead of Whole Foods, that they vote Republican instead of Democratic, that they go to Community College/get a job instead of studying art at a University.It is a poorly guarded secret that, deep down, white people believe if given money and education that all poor people would be EXACTLY like them. In fact, the only reason that poor people make the choices they do is because they have not been given the means to make the right choices and care about the right things.A great way to make white people feel good is to tell them about situations where poor people changed how they were doing things because they were given the 'whiter' option. "Back in my old town, people used to shop at Wal*Mart and then this non-profit organization came in and set up a special farmers co-op so that we could buy more local produce, and within two weeks the Wal*Mart shut down and we elected our first Democratic representative in 40 years." White people will first ask which non-profit and are they hiring? After that, they will be filled with euphoria and will invite you to more parties to tell this story to their friends, so that they can feel great.But it is ESSENTIAL that you reassert that poor people do not make decisions based on free will. That news could crush white people and their hope for the future.

Notabunny:ReapTheChaos: I've been seeing these "lets end food deserts" ads on TV quite a bit and I've been wondering where exactly are the grocery store that don't sell vegetables? I've been to stores in some pretty poor neighborhoods and I've never seen one that didn't. Even if their selection of fresh produce was limited, they always have frozen, which for most vegetables is just as healthy as fresh.

The problem isn't access to healthy food, it's getting people to change their habits. If you didn't grow up eating vegetables and healthy food then your not likely to do it as an adult.

I know anecdotal evidence is flimsy, but I work in downtown Stockton, CA. and I'm willing to make a bet. Let's stand on the steps of City Hall, and I'll give you an hour to walk to a store and buy lettuce, carrots, potatoes, bananas, apples, a gallon of milk, and then walk back. I know that within 20 minutes you can get a payday loan and buy a fifth of Jack, but that's a different bet.

I live in a small city, about 168k, and from city hall I doubt there's a grocery store within a 30 minute walk either, probably closer to an hour walk one way. What's your point?

doglover:fusillade762: But more than that, he says, many people, particularly in low-income food deserts, just aren't used to buying or preparing healthy meals

I think only in America will you find poor people who don't know how to cook.

It's not a matter of know, it's a matter of when you work three jobs, you don't have time to shop or cook.

Also fast food places sell TINY salads for WAY TOO MUCH. If you really want people to be healthy, offer big, cheap salads with a lot of lettuce. A free apple with every value meal for 10 cents more. Y'know, shiat like that.

Fast food places aren't in the business of making people healthy. You seem to be a bit confused regarding the basic operations purpose of a fast food restaurant.

elysive:Notabunny: ReapTheChaos: I've been seeing these "lets end food deserts" ads on TV quite a bit and I've been wondering where exactly are the grocery store that don't sell vegetables? I've been to stores in some pretty poor neighborhoods and I've never seen one that didn't. Even if their selection of fresh produce was limited, they always have frozen, which for most vegetables is just as healthy as fresh.

The problem isn't access to healthy food, it's getting people to change their habits. If you didn't grow up eating vegetables and healthy food then your not likely to do it as an adult.

I know anecdotal evidence is flimsy, but I work in downtown Stockton, CA. and I'm willing to make a bet. Let's stand on the steps of City Hall, and I'll give you an hour to walk to a store and buy lettuce, carrots, potatoes, bananas, apples, a gallon of milk, and then walk back. I know that within 20 minutes you can get a payday loan and buy a fifth of Jack, but that's a different bet.

In downtown Chicago, you could get the apples, bananas, carrots and milk in less than ten minutes thanks to the wide selection of fresh food at Walgreens and 7-11. Could probably get eggs and a pre-made salad too.

At 7-11 a smallish salad is $4. For that same $4 you could buy 4 big-ass microwave burritos at the same store, or 4 double cheeseburgers at McDonalds.

Crap food is just plain cheaper, and for those who are living in poverty, the math often doesn't add up.

I can't smoke stogies in the maternity ward, even if one of the kids is allegedly mine, and you're tellin' me we can't pass a law where you have to provide apples to keep your vendor's license in city limits?

Well, there's another reason poor people are fat, but you'd have to have been poor to know it.

Fat (as in grease), starch and sugar make you feel full and keep you going through the day, take the edge off your hunger, stop the kids from whining; but they don't do squat for your "nutritional" levels. When I was poor, I used to live for a week on half a gallon of ice cream--a couple spoonfuls in the morning would make me think I wasn't hungry until nearly noon. Throw in some caffeine and bread and I'd never eat anything else. Of course, I was tired and surly all the time, but I wasn't hungry. (I wasn't fat, but that was due to the meth)

So poor people eat a lot of starchy, greasy foods because it fills the stomach; sugar and caffeine (coffee, candy bars) give you the energy you need to keep going on such nutrient-poor fare); and all those empty calories make you fat unless you're a meth-head. Add some beer on the weekends to give you a reason to keep living. That's pretty much the poverty diet. Kids: Give 'em french fries and tater tots to fill their little tummies, washed down with plenty of sweet soda and you'll never hear a word out of them.

Of course, they're unhealthy and have oily hair and pasty complexions and bad teeth and rotten dispositions--but being poor and working two jobs or having four kids who need to eat SOMETHING forces you to do whatever you can to pay the bills. And starchy, greasy, sugary foods are it.

FTA: To check that notion, he and colleagues from the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine recently residents of one low-income community in Philadelphia before and after the opening of a glistening new supermarket brimming with fresh produce.

doglover:It's not a matter of know, it's a matter of when you work three jobs, you don't have time to shop or cook..

I believe that excuse as much as I believe the "I don't have time for exercise" excuse, spoken after telling me about last night's reality show du jour or trip to the pub. It really is cheaper to cook, so maybe the hypothetical person working three jobs could work fewer hours if he/she streamlined the family food budget.

When I lived on my own and ate out every day, my food budget matched my current household's food budget (multiple people, food cooked from scratch, fancy ingredients like fresh seafood).

doglover:fusillade762: But more than that, he says, many people, particularly in low-income food deserts, just aren't used to buying or preparing healthy meals

I think only in America will you find poor people who don't know how to cook.

It's not a matter of know, it's a matter of when you work three jobs, you don't have time to shop or cook.

Also fast food places sell TINY salads for WAY TOO MUCH. If you really want people to be healthy, offer big, cheap salads with a lot of lettuce. A free apple with every value meal for 10 cents more. Y'know, shiat like that.

Well, lettuce (at least the iceberg lettuce commonly found in salads) doesn't have a lot of nutritional value. A big cheap salad with spinach of assorted greens as the base, with a lot of tomatoes, onions, peppers, mushrooms, carrots, broccoli, etc on top is another story, but that's also more expensive.

I try to provide my kids with fresh foods but when I'm out of money, I can only provide what I can.

HOWEVER, that is not McDonald's. I keep rice and dried vegetables for emergencies (yeah, it's not delicious but it's survivable) and I never cook with a microwave. There are foods we can get inexpensively and retrieve the benefits.

The dried veggie packs from those noodle bowls go great with rice, ground turkey and some frozen peas and carrots in a rice cooker.

Noodles without the flavor packs go great with the $5.00 breaded chicken breasts and frozen peas and carrots.

So many poor recipes I can share. (Two kids, single dad, paying alimony but get no child support...)

It's all about priorities. People simply don't make a healthy lifestyle a priority. It's more fun and interesting to spend a couple hours a day reading Facebook (or your favourite "Fat Acceptance" blog) than it is to prepare healthy meals and get regular exercise. So when people say "I don't have time", what they usually mean is "it's a lower priority than Candy Crush Saga".

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom:Notabunny: ReapTheChaos: I've been seeing these "lets end food deserts" ads on TV quite a bit and I've been wondering where exactly are the grocery store that don't sell vegetables? I've been to stores in some pretty poor neighborhoods and I've never seen one that didn't. Even if their selection of fresh produce was limited, they always have frozen, which for most vegetables is just as healthy as fresh.

The problem isn't access to healthy food, it's getting people to change their habits. If you didn't grow up eating vegetables and healthy food then your not likely to do it as an adult.

I know anecdotal evidence is flimsy, but I work in downtown Stockton, CA. and I'm willing to make a bet. Let's stand on the steps of City Hall, and I'll give you an hour to walk to a store and buy lettuce, carrots, potatoes, bananas, apples, a gallon of milk, and then walk back. I know that within 20 minutes you can get a payday loan and buy a fifth of Jack, but that's a different bet.

They don't have a Caltrans in Stockton?

One of the (many) interesting things about Stockton is that we are surrounded by some of the most fertile and productive farmland in the world. It's a lush and verdant wonderland of food and abundance. But many of Stockton's residents don't have access to fresh produce. They may walk past 5 liquor stores and 2 burger joints on the way to the check cashing place, but no store between Point A and Point B will offer the produce grown in a ring around the city.

Notabunny:Here's a fun idea: Let's change the way the government subsidizes food so that a Big Mac costs $8 and 2,000 calories worth of salad costs $1.99

I'd be ok with fixing this.

Full disclosure, my wife is very involved in food policy, and by extension I am because I help her with research and she is getting real tired of the elitist attitude she runs into towards our poorer part of town.

The general attitude from a few of these people is, um, not exactly good towards the lower class. They want a Market of Choice (think Whole Foods) or some local independent organic grocer, we'd be happy with something far more basic and cheap, because we're realists, and know that there we need incentives to get one there, and the incentives for a high end grocer will be greater than for a lower end grocer. There already would be a grocery store in one of our food deserts if the demand was there, and but it would still not be a Whole Foods.

In all likelihood I suspect what will end up there is one of the Walmart Neighborhood Market.

the801:meat0918:Also, get the kids at the school some ideas on fresh foods. Hook 'em while they're young.

[wp-b.com image 350x300] [cdn.niketalk.com image 350x263]

Here is some of what my kids' school district serves from their Facebook page, and the menus are standardized across the district.

albuquerquehalsey:White people spend a lot of time of worrying about poor people. It takes up a pretty significant portion of their day.They feel guilty and sad that poor people shop at Wal*Mart instead of Whole Foods, that they vote Republican instead of Democratic, that they go to Community College/get a job instead of studying art at a University.It is a poorly guarded secret that, deep down, white people believe if given money and education that all poor people would be EXACTLY like them. In fact, the only reason that poor people make the choices they do is because they have not been given the means to make the right choices and care about the right things.A great way to make white people feel good is to tell them about situations where poor people changed how they were doing things because they were given the 'whiter' option. "Back in my old town, people used to shop at Wal*Mart and then this non-profit organization came in and set up a special farmers co-op so that we could buy more local produce, and within two weeks the Wal*Mart shut down and we elected our first Democratic representative in 40 years." White people will first ask which non-profit and are they hiring? After that, they will be filled with euphoria and will invite you to more parties to tell this story to their friends, so that they can feel great.But it is ESSENTIAL that you reassert that poor people do not make decisions based on free will. That news could crush white people and their hope for the future.

You've truly never seen a food desert have you? Let's put it this way Walmarts are an hour or more away by bus being out in the 'burbs.

shtychkn:fusillade762: But more than that, he says, many people, particularly in low-income food deserts, just aren't used to buying or preparing healthy meals

I think only in America will you find poor people who don't know how to cook.

Its a testament to how well off America really is.

It's also a testament to how shiatty hours can be, especially for those that rely on public transport. I like to cook, but on days where I work "8 to 4" I find it very difficult (because I have a 2+ hour commute by city bus each way, and come home utterly exhausted at 6:30pm). Other days I work "6:30 to 4" but get to ride the company bus back, which means I actually get home at 4:30-5. If I plan it well I have leftovers, or I have an easy meal like sardines with salad. If I'm too tired and haven't been shopping? I eat out. Sucks but I will pay the money to keep myself fed and healthy.

Other people work even more than me, like people having two jobs. They eat where they can.

That said, there ARE options. Most people in America that eat badly do so mainly because they have no idea what healthy eating is. It actually can be as simple as getting a cold cut 6 inch with all the veggies from Subway instead of a Big Mac and fries (there are a LOT of Subways now, its as common as mcdonalds). It can mean getting unsweetened ice tea instead of a soft drink or sweet tea.

I could go on about this topic but I don't need to talk more about the obvious. I think most people on Fark are educated enough to understand basic nutrition. Many people, far more than the educated realize, have absolutely no concept of nutrition. Like, eating fruits and vegetables is a foreign concept level bad. Even when they DO cook, it's going to be something bad for them or missing basic nutrition, like rice with spam or mac and cheese.

ramblinwreck:Notabunny: Here's a fun idea: Let's change the way the government subsidizes food so that a Big Mac costs $8 and 2,000 calories worth of salad costs $1.99

Or not... because MORE government is not the solution (especially when using tax dollars then usually do the opposite of what's intended)

Here's an example: let's drug test every welfare recipient! Oh wait, never mind...that costs us more money in managing a drug testing program that the benefit we get from denying welfare...OOOPS.

Oh, wait..that's only applies when conservatives fail at government.

Never have I seen a more appropriate Fark handle. You do understand that we're already spending money to make the corn, beef and wheat that went into the Big Mac cheaper? He's suggesting shifting the existing subsidies to different, healthier foods.

TuteTibiImperes:fast food places are exceptionally good at providing a lot of calories on the cheap.

When was the last time you paid attention to the price of fast food? That shiat is getting damned expensive. Most burger joints will keep their signature burger (Whopper Big Mac etc.) pretty cheap, but if you get one of the other meals you're blowing the majority of a 10 dollar bill. I wen't to Sonic last week and got a bacon cheese burger meal and a side of cheese sticks and it was $12. I can make a lot of food at home for $12.