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its only too much if the perceived drive exceeds the capabilities of the people or persons trying to harness and channel that drive into some workable form of an animal using conventional humane methods...urban dictionary describes such a dog as bat schiat crazy

All my Exes live in Texas

Originally Posted by lanse brown

A few things that I learned still ring true. "Lanse when you get a gift, say thank you and walk away. When you get a screwing walk away. You are going to get a lot more screwings than gifts"

I have one now I got in a few weeks ago. Yelps in the water because her legs won't swim as fast as her brain wants her to get there. Yelps on land on the take off...and I mean take like a rocket. However she is smart and learns quickly. Working on OB I the yard now and FF soon. Fun to train for me. I have another young one of my own I'm looking forward to FF. If I have a bumper in my hand it better be high enough she can't reach it or she's gonna get it. I had one just like her a few yrs ago and had to hide the bumper behind my back just to get an ear pinch on her.

I have one now that is 19 months old. She will kick mud in your face on marks or leaving on a blind. I would suggest obedience, obedience, and more obedience. Not only does my pup have lots of drive she has manners as well.

I have one now I got in a few weeks ago. Yelps in the water because her legs won't swim as fast as her brain wants her to get there. Yelps on land on the take off...and I mean take like a rocket. However she is smart and learns quickly. Working on OB I the yard now and FF soon. Fun to train for me. I have another young one of my own I'm looking forward to FF. If I have a bumper in my hand it better be high enough she can't reach it or she's gonna get it. I had one just like her a few yrs ago and had to hide the bumper behind my back just to get an ear pinch on her.

You just described my pup to the tee. Yelps on water marks on the way out, off line if theirs a gunner, and tries robbing the bumper walking. I love this little guy and probably the easiest pup I've ever trained.

To much drive hmmmm. If you start a puppy off right letting it know u have control from the first time u send it from a heel position and not letting it break if it does break and your using a 30 foot check cord he will learn not to break he will also learn that daddy has control over me and I don't get my reward if I don't obey. If you build on that and never let him get his way I believe u can control the drive

Ahhh... getting to the crotch of the matter (as Archie Bunker would say.) We're touching on the true fear and loathing of the amateur. Serious amateurs (people who love the dog game but have lives and responsibilities) recognize the necessity of buying a dog/puppy bred to have "go" but worry about instilling the right amount of "no". "No" in the right amount at the right time.

Since I am one of those amateurs I would like to ask the assembled experts if using the Hillman techniques with the very young fire-breather can produce the dog we want. I seriously don't want to screw my anticipated puppy up.

Ahhh... getting to the crotch of the matter (as Archie Bunker would say.) We're touching on the true fear and loathing of the amateur. Serious amateurs (people who love the dog game but have lives and responsibilities) recognize the necessity of buying a dog/puppy bred to have "go" but worry about instilling the right amount of "no". "No" in the right amount at the right time.

Since I am one of those amateurs I would like to ask the assembled experts if using the Hillman techniques with the very young fire-breather can produce the dog we want. I seriously don't want to screw my anticipated puppy up.

I took mine through it and it went well. It made formal training much easier because he was familiar with much of the training already.

There is a lot more to a dog than prey drive. Temperament is comprised of all the drives and the dogs sensitivities to its environment. No 2 dogs are alike.
Focus and excitability are factors. High pack ,low pack factor in. High food low food factor in. And high prey low prey factor in and the sustainability of these drives during the process of goal satisfaction also factor in.

Give me high pack,,,high food and high prey and sustainabilities of those drives along with high focus and low excitability and sensitive any day any time.
High drive alone does not factor in because it is only a very small part of the equation. You need more info.

There is a lot more to a dog than prey drive. Temperament is comprised of all the drives and the dogs sensitivities to its environment. No 2 dogs are alike.
Focus and excitability are factors. High pack ,low pack factor in. High food low food factor in. And high prey low prey factor in and the sustainability of these drives during the process of goal satisfaction also factor in.

Give me high pack,,,high food and high prey and sustainabilities of those drives along with high focus and low excitability and sensitive any day any time.
High drive alone does not factor in because it is only a very small part of the equation. You need more info.

Pete

I believe this is a big factor in determining if the dog is trainable ( teachable) ...The excitability is where the problem usually arises...the higher the dog gets the harder it is for some to calm the dog down...Some trainers have the knack of taking this out of the dog and others don't have it...Steve S

"Your dog learns as much by doing his work right,by your praise and encouragement, as he does by your displeasure and correction." DLWalters