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First of all the person who is infected with HIV has the responsibility to protect himself from getting re-infected and protecting the person he is having sex with as well. It's a 50/50 job but the responsibility lies more in the person who is infected. I am shocked to hear many people on this forum proclaim that they are don't feel they should carry responsibility. Getting infected goes beyond health and mental responsibility, it is also MORAL issue. KOI has said some truth and If you infect someone knowing you are Positive and blame the other person for being careless then it is your responsibility AS WELL."oh well it's not all my fault" is such a lame excuse. IF YOU KNOW and DON"T USE PROTECTION then it is your FAULT as well.

Another thing I forgot to mention is, If you are HIV positive and are going to sex clubs and orgies then you also need to stop and think if you understand that you are participating in a dangerous act. I am not here to preach goodness but one thing that we have is a responsibility to take care of ourselves first because re-infection is a reality. I am not saying stop having sex but gosh haven't we learned our lesson about promiscouis sex? I don't know but things happen for a reason and if there are people who continue to get high, have anonymous sex and harm their bodies and then complain "Oh my God, I am resistant to all meds because I got a new strain" "I have severe side effects but I stopped drinking as much" then we have't learned our lesson.

I've never read such a post like you described, so I can't particularly comment on it. What I can say is that I personally am not at all ''into'' the idea of intentionally infecting someone. That's a...I don't know how to really describe it, but morbid maybe? That kinda reminds me of that weirdness I've seen on those websites where people ''get off'' on watching each other shoot up meth via web cam. Both of those concepts put me into a headspace that is far, far removed from anything resembling sexy. Sad and even a bit frightening, really. I was only commenting before on the very real situation of a sex party with tweaked out boys. The fact remains that these guys are either already positive and unaware (or don't care), or that they can (and will) be positive in short order, regardless of whether a ''known positive'' slips it in or not.

I ran in that tweaker circle for quite some time. I can tell you point blank that any kind of safe sex message in that environment is going to fall on deaf ears. I have seen (a very few) guys make this attempt during such events. Not once did anyone ever say, "Ya know...he's right! C'mon, boys...pass out the condoms!" Instead, they shun the guy who presents the issue or flat out show him the door. In such an event, promptly leaving might make you feel like an upstanding citizen of the world, but I don't think it amounts to a fart in the wind towards changing world health. No one that you leave at that party is going to be saved from HIV...all it means is that you're not gonna get laid. Your desire to stem the tide is better practiced in trying to educate people outside of such an environment.

(I'm fully prepared to catch some hell for this post, but I stand by it on the grounds of realism.)

All I see in the orginal post is an alarmed HIV-positive person who took the necessary steps to protect A N Other(s) regardless of them being a drugged non-thinking hot frat boy bottom (or two). As usual in these circumstances, in my experience. - matt

Yes, and in the end it is better to know that people with Bailey's just barebacke'm anyway mentality exist. It just does nothing for our plight to secure funding for all who need HIV care each year. I don't know if you remember but the bug chaser article in rolling stone was immediately used against us in press even based on nontruths, now imagine it with bailey's refreshingly candid admissions or emissions whatever the case. It affects all ofus.

And the isue was not about the original post that is why I did not want to hijack this thread, and started a new one, but it was shut down, and deemed "borderline flame baiting."

People have a right to express their opinions including you myself and Bailey. But if you say that it okay to bareback people without disclosing (as bailey did) because they are going to get it anyway, I am going to call you on it. Because it is just plain sociopathic to think this way. Does anyone have children loved ones? Woudl you want this happening to them even if they put themselves at risk?

Quote from: DingoBoiinstead of attacking an individual for saying what is really happening in the world, working on changing those behaviors is the way to go.

quoted-for-truth

Listen, this is getting out of hand. I simply took issue with Dingoboi's sociopathic comment. You can either agree that it is sociopathic or not. I did not engage you. You engaged me on severalo occassions. Go back re-read the thread. It seems that if there is a bubble bursting comment, all of those who choose to live in la-la land and not look at the reality of what this disease means, start lynching. However, I don't care working at an ASO has given me a great perspective. You tell an 17 year old that oh, well you didn't protect yourself, it your fault...you had a choice. And this is only after one month of volunteering there. So no, it is not worth infecting someone who has their whole life ahead of them just to get a "good piece of as." This is the quote that I have issue with, nothing else.

And I commend you for using protection. And I am not attacking you. Again, it is all about dingoboi's attitude that life is disposable. You have a right to have sex responsibly which is what you seem to be doing. I am not judging your indulgences. I realize that you are a responsible person.

Quote from: DingoBoiinstead of attacking an individual for saying what is really happening in the world, working on changing those behaviors is the way to go.

quoted-for-truth

Listen, this is getting out of hand. I simply took issue with Dingoboi's sociopathic comment. You can either agree that it is sociopathic or not. I did not engage you. You engaged me on severalo occassions. Go back re-read the thread. It seems that if there is a bubble bursting comment, all of those who choose to live in la-la land and not look at the reality of what this disease means, start lynching. However, I don't care working at an ASO has given me a great perspective. You tell an 17 year old that oh, well you didn't protect yourself, it your fault...you had a choice. And this is only after one month of volunteering there. So no, it is not worth infecting someone who has their whole life ahead of them just to get a "good piece of as." This is the quote that I have issue with, nothing else.

rob

For all of your overly emotional verbiage and flame baiting I still don't see anything objectionable with what I quoted in that particular instance. It's not meant to endorse any other comments on the subject Dingo made.

Otherwise your "I volunteer at an ASO. What are you doing?" reeks of further flame baiting and moral superiority, when in fact you know nothing about what I do or don't do. Further more it's rather irrelevant in discussing this. Working at an ASO doesn't provide you with any more insight with things than my 15 years being HIV+ does. If you want to get in a pissing match I'll be happy to step up to a urinal.

jeeesh....this post got legs and ran down the street. get off of dingobois ass......lol. like most of us here....bn there done that. where did i get the disease from?.......who the hell knows. moreinliky orgy or bathouse. but to my credit...if there is any i thought i was always being safe. as my doc sez the key word there is 'thought'

yikes i used to love a good orgy..... problem w/ meth twinks though is they can never get hard

so here i am... as the shock wears off im finding myself wanting to get back in the game. i dont know about the rest of u guys <and girls> i wanna have SEX!...lol. but it of course is a whole new game being poz. iv read about poz parties and bn curious to check them out. hey whatz the big deal? u dont have 2 do anything. iv always bn more in2 watching. when it comes to drugs ..yuck....meth just never was my thing. but boy am i a hop head...lol. & i dont care what any1 has 2 say about! but as other have said on here, i know people who have thrown their whole live away for the meth crap. so letz not all act like rev jim and point out each otherz bad points.

I didn't know what your quoting Bailey in reference to me was supposed to mean, other than get off your but, quit complainging and do something about it. I was just letting you know that I am. And no I don't want a pissing match with you. I'll leave the watersports to you. Once again you engaged me, several times before I even addresed you once. Let's just drop it, seems like you don't want to let it go. Let's agree to disagree.

I didn't know what your quoting Bailey in reference to me was supposed to mean, other than get off your but, quit complaining and do something about it. I was just letting you know that I am. And no I don't want a pissing match with you. I'll leave the watersports to you. Once again you engaged me, several times before I even addresed you once. Let's just drop it, seems like you don't want to let it go. Let's agree to disagree.

rob

Oh, no. There's not a SINGLE place on the first page of this thread where I directly responded to a single thing you said by quoting you. Frankly I think your attacking me from my statement in the flame-bait spin off thread you made where you put Bailey's name in the thread title, and to which a moderator (Ann) agreed with my assessment and locked your secondary thread. My comment about your starting the spin off thread had zero to do with the content of your comments, but with your technique in starting another thread and singling out another board member.

Again, I think you're becoming overly emotional right now and on a web board discussion where I don't have the luxury of engaging you in real time this doesn't do much to make to prop up your talking points, especially when you have had to resort to flame baiting and erroneous accusations like you've made with me on this thread. And no, I don't really want to drop it until you say you were wrong to do this and apologize.

I didn't see philly's quote of DingoBoi as directed at you, koi1. Just a universal statement culled from D's post. I did read your comment as directed at him, however. Just like adding that little ''leave the watersports to you'' bit...just that little something extra in your reply that smacks a bit of moral superiority.

Tim

(who is rapidly reaching the point in this thread where he wants to say, "I don't care. Just fuck me.")

I didn't see philly's quote of DingoBoi as directed at you, koi1. Just a universal statement culled from D's post. I did read your comment as directed at him, however. Just like adding that little ''leave the watersports to you'' bit...just that little something extra in your reply that smacks a bit of moral superiority.

Tim

(who is rapidly reaching the point in this thread where he wants to say, "I don't care. Just fuck me.")

Thank you. In fact, I think my "quoted-for-truth" quote of dingo's was in agreement with your agreement with him, when you posted "Would like to add.....nope. Never mind. That about covers it. " right after him. I simply wished to clarify which remark dingo stated that I found most useful.

At this point koi1 is so emotionally invested with slamming dingo boy that all other posters who don't cheer on the public flogging are condemned to hell. Sorry, I don't buy that. It's full of utter bullshit and I don't appreciate being called to the carpet like Rob did with me.

In fact, it was one of the more TIRED comments I've read on this board (and that's saying a lot).

My comment may have been tired, but it is not as tired as your fab, retro, seventies moustache. Muy sexy. I can be ghetto when I want to. From now on it's the ignore the bore button for you. At least then I will be spared looking at your HONCHO Magazine circa 1978, the year disco died, mugshot. Just remember it is you who began to lose all decorum, and I'm not talking about your poor taste in grooming. LET IT GO. I am.

Sunshine, lollipops, and rainbows... everything that's wonderful is what I feel when we're together...

Last night, I was at a party with a bunch of drunk straight people... a couple had unprotected sex in the bathroom of this apartment. While I found them to be classy beyond all description, I did throw a condom in there for them. They didn't use it.

My comment may have been tired, but it is not as tired as your fab, retro, seventies moustache. Muy sexy. I can ghetto when I want to. From now on it's the ignore the bore button for you. At least hen I will be spared looking at your HONCHO circa 1978, the year disco died, mugshot. Just remember it is you who began to lose all decorum, and I'm not talking about your poor taste grooming. LET IT GO. I am.

My comment may have been tired, but it is not as tired as your fab, retro, seventies moustache. Muy sexy. I can ghetto when I want to. From now on it's the ignore the bore button for you. At least hen I will be spared looking at your HONCHO circa 1978, the year disco died, mugshot. Just remember it is you who began to lose all decorum, and I'm not talking about your poor taste grooming. LET IT GO. I am.

rob

Wow, an attack on my Jon King homage avatar. He died of AIDS. Way to go. It's amazing the depths someone will sink to on an internet message board when they can't legitimately prove their point or stick to facts.

You're welcome, philly. Yeah- I gathered your quote as such because you didn't quote the entire Dingo post...just that very deliberate line. I was glad he posted that reply because it clarified what I was trying to type out last night (but was too sleepy to get out right). I'm also glad you made the reply to koi's other thread. His original post ended with "Does anyone else find this post offensive?" I sat there for about five minutes debating whether or not to say, "You mean this post? Yours? Yeah...kinda."

I appreciate- I really and truly do- koi's feelings on this subject. I am also pretty freaked at the idea of intentional infections, as well as saddened by the extent to which drugs (especially the meth/sex combo) is laying waste to so many of us (and this spoken from one of the casualties). I just was not at ease with the way this whole thing was shaking down.

EDITED TO SAY: "Let it go"...after I've taken a few last jabs. (Incorrect ones at that. Hello? Jon King?) What was that about taking bait? Huh? Ah, phooey. Never mind.

It's a serious topic and the personal attacks don't do anything for the points people are trying to make. It's all good that you feel passionately about something, but that is no excuse for petulant drama. Besides, once you start that, no one takes your point-of-view seriously.

Logged

Floating through the void in the caress of two giant pink lobsters named Esmerelda and Keith.

But I only had issue with dingoboi, and I said that it was tacky the way I went about it. Philly started adressing me. It got out of hand. He started with the personal attacks. I think it is a serious issue. Working at an ASO has given me some insight. I am talking from experience. I don't know Philly and he does not know me. It seems like we are two very opinionated people. He was not on my radar until he made a comment about a thread I started. We were both wrong for not addressing this through pms.

I am sorry for defaming the good name of a porn star. Hurray for our gay icons.

It's been pointed out to you numerous times, by several posters, that this is factually incorrect. YOU addressed me, I never addressed you. It's amazing you continue to spread utter falsehoods to prop yourself up.

The issue isn't WHAT you have said, it's how you have said it with continual personal attacks.

Quote from: koi1

I am sorry for defaming the good name of a porn star. Hurray for our gay icons.

Got it. But when you thought it was actually me it was OK to mock it. So clear now.

I don't think anything said here by me is as agregious as advocating intentioally putting someone's life at risk with a disease that is still killing people. Lots of people agree that this comment by Bailey is "sick and twisted." This is all I want to say philly. You will not get an apology from me, not now, not ever, not even when Bailey finds the right colorist.

But I only had issue with dingoboi, and I said that it was tacky the way I went about it. Philly started adressing me. It got out of hand. He started with the personal attacks. I think it is a serious issue. Working at an ASO has given me some insight. I am talking from experience. I don't know Philly and he does not know me. It seems like we are two very opinionated people. He was not on my radar until he made a comment about a thread I started. We were both wrong for not addressing this through pms.

Sorry, Koi, but I read through this entire thread. While I can't say I agree with either of you, I would have to say that any dispassionate analysis of this thread would draw the conclusion that your responses appear to be an overreaction to someone disagreeing with you. Newsflash... this is an Internet board. Grow a thick skin if you're going to post. And stop posting threads about someone's "poisoned cream" or attacking someone's mustache. Seriously, if you want to be treated like a grown up... you might find a considerable amount of success if you take to heart the idea that acting like a grown up is the first step. And .... it really does not matter who started it. If you respond to an attack, you are just as guilty as the person who started it. You may think you didn't start it, but you sure ran with it. Now, please make your points without attacking others. The things you say that are valid, which there are many, just fall on deaf ears when you get mean.

Logged

Floating through the void in the caress of two giant pink lobsters named Esmerelda and Keith.

I don't think it's a matter of who started what and who said what first. But someone did admit to provoking closing KOI's thread in which led Ann to close the thread. I thought this forum was about opinions, and if you NEED to address a name to defend your opinion so be it. But I think whoever told Ann to close the thread is at fault as well.

I don't think anything said here by me is as agregious as advocating intentioally putting someone's life at risk with a disease that is still killing people. Lots of people agree that this comment by Bailey is "sick and twisted." This is all I want to say philly. You will not get an apology from me, not now, not ever, not even when Bailey finds the right colorist.

rob

Ad hominem again?

Good Lord. No one wins that way. Ever.

And if you're referring to Philly's criticism of your thread which was locked earlier today... I personally thought Philly was quite restrained in what he said.