ukcanuck wrote:is the only player to captain two different professional teams to championships.[3] His playoff leadership while in New York, which ended a 54-year Stanley Cup drought in 1994, earned him the nickname "The Messiah"."

Ya. Stars shine brighter in New York. All the wiki stats you posted speaks to Messier's longevity. Yes he had a great career. 2nd All time in points but no scoring titles and only one runner up.

the thread says all time greatest leader, to me the only twice captain thing should get him on a list, where on that list is up to better stats guys than I want to be. the guy is on my all time most notable list, but that list is directly related to my bitterness as a Canucks fan

ukcanuck wrote:I was pretty disappointed with his time here too, but with some of things that i have read on the corner over the last couple of years about how Bure got screwed here...I am beginning to wonder what the impact Messier would have had if management and coaches were not who they were at the time...?

Speaking of Messier and how Bure (almost) got screwed....

Does anyone else remember the rumour wherein Mess put a move on Pavel at a drunken bash?

The next morning Pavel demanded a trade, or so the story goes.

Now I don't happen to believe that particular story, but I do believe a coupla other Mess the Pig stories.

I suppose one can't criticize those who swing both ways these days, but one can still criticize attempted rape amirite?

Can we look at a... Best NHL Leaders of All Time... list thusly: If you were so gifted as to be an NHL player when various leaders were playing, which are the Top Ten (in order) you'd accept/respect/follow.

ukcanuck wrote:the thread says all time greatest leader, to me the only twice captain thing should get him on a list, where on that list is up to better stats guys than I want to be. the guy is on my all time most notable list, but that list is directly related to my bitterness as a Canucks fan

I'm not saying he shouldn't be on the list. He deserves to be on there. I just have a problem with him being the default greatest leader in NHL hockey history.

Listercat wrote:Scott Neidermayer was a leader and Captain of two different Cup teams plus a Gold medal team.

Scott Stevens was actually the captain of the Devils' Cup teams. Look at the list, it seems that the fact that Niedermayer wasn't a long-serving captain in the NHL hurt him as far as being on the list.

Mario Lemieux is my #1. Captained his team to back-to-back Stanley Cups. The first one with a bad back. The second one with a broken wrist. Conn Smythe both years. Inspired his teammates on the ice and off it coming back from injuries and cancer. Respected leaders and future Hall of Famers such as Coffey, Trottier, and Francis came into the room and it was still Mario's team. When the franchise was in trouble, Mario came in and saved the franchise by taking over the team's ownership and rounding up investors. He got it done. A year after the Penguins lost to the Red Wings in the Cup finals, Lemieux sends a text message to all his players just before Game 7 and tells them to play without fear and that he would see them at center ice. The Penguins went on to win the Cup and Lemieux lifts the Cup as an owner.

Internationally, a hurting Lemieux captained Team Canada to their first Olympics Gold Medal in hockey in 50 years (including sparking Canada's victory in the Gold Medal game with his infamous fake receiving of the pass when Canada was down 1-0). Lemieux also captained Team Canada to a World Cup of Hockey as well. I can't understand why Mario is not on top of the list and below guys like Sakic and Yzerman.