bck9900

Anybody remember another company that recently made a move that its customers didn't support. Anything coming to mind? How about Netflix. How much did their stock tumble. Ohh what about that BOA fiasco? How many people closed their accounts even after they retracted the fee? I know I did.

bluejester

This is me in the new Anvil WS and WM. Now, Im a bit different from most who have posted so far in that Im a small girl, but I have big tatas and big ol' arms. (thank you, family genetics) The new WM isnt too bad, in fact I rather like that it's more spacious for my bowbs. But, I kind of dont like how unflattering the bottom area is. It kind of 'tents out' down there. Not a huge fan of the longer sleeves either, as it makes the shirt a bit less girly.

Eh, it could be worse. I had issues with the AA tees as well, so it's not a huge step down from that style.

All the women on woot are headless!!! AAAAAAAAAUUUUGH!!!!

Actually, thanks for posting up these, it gives me a better idea of what to expect if I were to order shirts for my wife. I think that your builds are similar. In any case, she was never a big fan of how tight the women's sizes are with AA, but I don't know what she would think about the flared lower part of the tee. I usually stuck to ordering a men's large for her because it had a simple enough look that it could pass for any gender shirt.

scratches head

I dunno. At first I was a little encouraged that the women's sizes were changing, but, I don't know now. Hearing an actual woman-folk saying that it's a tad unflattering isn't exactly a selling point to me. I like the wife to be flattered that I got her a fun shirt as a gift, not giving me a "what are you implying" look with a shirt that flares at the bottom.

Edit: there's something that seems less, I dunno, less feminine about shoulders on the Anvil tee as well. Women's tees from what I've seen, tend to have closer knit shoulders, but the shoulders look looser on the new blank.

bassanimation

Edit: there's something that seems less, I dunno, less feminine about shoulders on the Anvil tee as well. Women's tees from what I've seen, tend to have closer knit shoulders, but the shoulders look looser on the new blank.

Yeah, I will say that if you dont have enough womanness up top, these new blanks wont flatter your figure. :\ I grouse about the AA's being a bit snug, but I still liked how petit their shoulders were. Makes a girl feel like a girl still...even if we are tired, lazy, sloths hahah. -sigh I dont love the new shirts, but I never adored the old ones either.

Personally, I like Threadless' girls shirts the best. Of course they're a bajillion dollar company, they can afford to get their tees custom made just for their shop. Also, I've had crappy Threadless tees. They're not bulletproof by a longshot.

If I could make a decision right now, I'd say stick with the AA. But I dont think that's going to happen, so at least these new blanks arent made of deer hide and hemp rope. Ouch!

trekmiss

ThunderThighs wrote:I think the problem with that is we need to be able to update these sales quickly as more shirt selections move to Anvil. So a shirt that starts out as Mens only in Anvil will ultimately have all shirts on Anvil if it lives in the Reckoning long enough.

Having to change the art each time would use up a lot of resources. The gold box is already a manual process although the Sizing Chart itself is now more automated.

Ultimately, all the gold boxes will go away once we've been on Anvil for a while. So you can see it's rather fluid at the moment and I recognize that is hard as a consumer.

I'm posting in each sale about the shirt blanks. And double checking the sizing chart is a good idea too.

This transition period is hard on all of us and we thank you for your patience during this time.

I understand all of this, but I think a generic alert that just reminds folks to "check the size chart as some sizes may have changed" would at least give folks a head's up that is at the top of the page instead of buried at the bottom.

Please note that I'm not anti-woot, but I'm also not a fan of this change. I'm sure I'll adapt in time, but I think a little more effort and a little less snark could help some customers adapt easier.

bluejester

So, woot sent me a new shirt as well, and I finally had some time tonight to look at the new one, and compare it to the old.

For starters, here is a design by one of my favorite designers, Walmazan, on one of the old blanks:

Here is a new design, on the new blanks, covering that first tee and another tee:

Can't see the old shirt blanks under it? Well, neither could I. There sure is a bit more cloth here....

Why, underneath was not only the Walmazan tee, but a copy of a recently reckoned classic! If you look at the edges, it is certainly clear (despite my fuzzy photo) that there is a noticeable size difference between the two.

Here is that Walmazan tee, AA blank, on this Jester:

Here is the new design, and new blank on this same Jester:

The Anvil blank droops over my pockets and feels a bit bigger and a little scratchier. I haven't had a chance to wash the new blank yet, so it might just be a thing with it needing a rinse. I thought about posting a picture of my hands to show how dried and cracked they are, but it doesn't really show up on my camera phone. The thing is, the blank does feel the same as the AA blank would to me when I pulled a shirt out of a woot package. I'll give it a wash tomorrow and do a comparison shot to see what the design looks like after the first wash and evaluate how it feels on my over-sensitive skin.

However, the issue really isn't the fact that the shirt was scratchy or uncomfortable, it was the fact that it was American made. I do have shirts in my closet from other manufacturer's that aren't based in a America, but they are mostly comprised of touristy-shirts from places I've visited over the years or give-aways from Sci-Fi conventions. I stopped buying t-shirts at music concerts because as much as I would like a band, the shirts would always end up feeling sub-par and would fall apart after a few washes, and were invariably imported blanks.

I'm still not comfortable with the change, so to speak. I want to support the artists who print here, and I still like woot in general, despite the shirt blank change. I get that they have to do what they have to do to stay viable and out of the red, but I just feel like the transition could have been handled better.

I haven't had a chance to sift through the rest of this thread, so I don't know if other people have said stuff that I am saying, or about to say. It's been mentioned that woot staff has been "testing" the Anvil blanks for a few years now, unless I'm mistaken. I took that to mean that maybe they had staff specific things printed up, maybe things such as the Monkey Games shirts that we saw last summer which were color coded for teams were on Anvil blanks.

It isn't a secret the financial problems that AA has been having and the reputation of the head of said company. Other people have touched on the union and working conditions stuff, so I don't know if I could really add much there except for my own, unrelated to the textile industry, opinion of unions based on experience. That said, I think I get an idea of why woot made the change, and why it may have been in the backs of their minds that they may have to eventually change the blanks that they used.

I think that the transition could have been much smoother, but that's easy for me to say from the comfort of my living room. People have been comparing the handling to Netflix, and I think that is unfair. Hastings response to the outrage was to send out an email that will likely be used in business classes for years to come as an example of how not to treat your customers. Sure, there have been snarky comments from a couple staffers, but there's a part of me that expects that from woot. In a way, it's more genuine than some cooked up, elitist sounding response. I'd rather have llandar snarking than a business major attempting to obfuscate his way through a response.

I don't know that we'll ever get a concrete response on why the suddeness of the change, but at least I get the sense that they are trying over there at Woot HQ to make it easier on us, because they know how vocal we can get around here. If they weren't trying, I don't think that there would have been a one of us to get a copy or two of the new blanks simply so we could review them.

For right now, I'll give the new blanks a try, but in a sparing way. I will be a bit more selective of what I nab. However, I don't want the Woot staff to have to hit the unemployment line because people stop purchasing en masse.

In the long run, buying a shirt here means I get to help an artist financially by grabbing their awesome designs, and keep people like llandar employed, and therefore prevented from being set loose in the wild where untold havoc could arise.

profbrendan

This is me in the new Anvil WS and WM. Now, Im a bit different from most who have posted so far in that Im a small girl, but I have big tatas and big ol' arms. (thank you, family genetics) The new WM isnt too bad, in fact I rather like that it's more spacious for my bowbs. But, I kind of dont like how unflattering the bottom area is. It kind of 'tents out' down there. Not a huge fan of the longer sleeves either, as it makes the shirt a bit less girly.

Eh, it could be worse. I had issues with the AA tees as well, so it's not a huge step down from that style.

Thanks for posting these. Were they taken before or after a run through the wash?
(erm, the shirts, not you.)

modsquad

llandar wrote:No matter what YOU say, it's more about the limited options in our site layout.

No matter what YOU say, site layout is controlled by a few lines of text & can be changed to place a banner where ever the web dev wants to place it. And with all that extra money from the price hike and the cheaper Non U.S. shirts, you can afford to outsource your web development to another country as well & save even more money!

ThunderThighs wrote:This transition period is hard on all of us and we thank you for your patience during this time.

I'm not being patient, I'm just checking in to see if woot has seen the error of it's way, but apparently there still will be no OPTION to buy AA's (or another U.S. made supplier) or a switch back to them exclusively.

I'm removing woot entirely from my "morning coffee" favorites I view daily as well as my rss feeds. As stated by many, send out a mass email if you come to your senses & go back to a U.S. made supplier.

Mavyn

But I also admit that I like and want things that can't be made locally. Most of my clothing falls in this category.

I bought woot shirts because I want to support the artists. I don't care where they live. There is a great group of really talented, creative people here, and I want to support them. The shirt is not what I'm buying, I'm buying artwork.

So I get that people are upset, and choose to spend their dollars elsewhere because they want to support the anonymous and unknown AA employees. But don't forget that means you quit supporting the artists--and I'm willing to bet that MOST people bought their first woot shirt for the artwork, not the AA.

And yes, I know, the artists can be supported through purchases elsewhere. Some of those places still use AA, so that's great--but keep in mind one of the reasons so many artists stay at woot is that the payout is better here.

chennai8

Mavyn wrote:Just a comment on all the 'I won't buy here again' statements.

This is a wearable we're buying, So you also have to look at the fitting. So far, almost all the pics posted look inferior to AA fit. What's the use if you have hundreds of shirts, but can't wear them because they bunch up at the bottom?

Artists also need to talk to Woot about the blanks, if they want to sell more. I'm sure that Ninja Chameleon would have sold 1000 more shirts if it was printed on AA.

Mavyn

chennai8 wrote:This is a wearable we're buying, So you also have to look at the fitting. So far, almost all the pics posted look inferior to AA fit. What's the use if you have hundreds of shirts, but can't wear them because they bunch up at the bottom?

Artists also need to talk to Woot about the blanks, if they want to sell more. I'm sure that Ninja Chameleon would have sold 1000 more shirts if it was printed on AA.

Most of the pics have been from people that the AA fit well...I didn't post any pics of the AA on me because it fits like crap. The WXL looks painted on. Not flattering, not wearable.

So, yes I GET not buying it because of the fit. But so far, very few people have said they won't buy anymore because of the fit. Most have said they won't buy more because it's not made in America anymore.

chemnerd

Mavyn wrote:Most of the pics have been from people that the AA fit well...I didn't post any pics of the AA on me because it fits like crap. The WXL looks painted on. Not flattering, not wearable.

So, yes I GET not buying it because of the fit. But so far, very few people have said they won't buy anymore because of the fit. Most have said they won't buy more because it's not made in America anymore.

Just for the sake of interest - the made in america part is a small portion of my issue. I've hated the anvil shirts I've had in the past and the new shirts look like they fit like crap. Most of mine is with how they've handled it.

While I appreciate that some women had problems with the AA blanks, most of the pictures I've seen of the Anvil ones are completely unflattering. While I think AA shirts might not fit all people, some people actually liked them. And if this really just was a problem with the ladies shirts, they should have just changed the ladies and left the men's blanks alone.

While I also get the need to support the artists, I'm not going to ignore my issues with the shirts themselves just to support artists. They can go elsewhere. I hope they do in fact.

Narfcake

There's two aspects. Indeed, the art is a huge factor, but at the same time, the art needs to be on a shirt that buyer feels is worthy too.

I very rarely buy from Threadless because the shirt blanks they're sourcing from ... ummm, to put it nicely, SUCKS. RipT, which uses Tultex 0202 blanks (made in Pakistan or China), is a pass for me too.

elankat

Mavyn wrote:Just a comment on all the 'I won't buy here again' statements.

I agree that it's good to support the local economy first.

I do when I can.

But I also admit that I like and want things that can't be made locally. Most of my clothing falls in this category.

I bought woot shirts because I want to support the artists. I don't care where they live. There is a great group of really talented, creative people here, and I want to support them. The shirt is not what I'm buying, I'm buying artwork.

So I get that people are upset, and choose to spend their dollars elsewhere because they want to support the anonymous and unknown AA employees. But don't forget that means you quit supporting the artists--and I'm willing to bet that MOST people bought their first woot shirt for the artwork, not the AA.

And yes, I know, the artists can be supported through purchases elsewhere. Some of those places still use AA, so that's great--but keep in mind one of the reasons so many artists stay at woot is that the payout is better here.

As much as I like to support the artists (and I've made more than a few unnecessary purchases to keep a shirt from being Reckoned), I'm not going to buy a shirt that looks bad. And these shirts look like bad.

I haven't seen a single pic of the new women's blanks that I consider flattering. The sleeves are too long, the shoulders have a weird fit, and the entire mid section to hem is just bizarre and baggy. Terrible looking fit for a women's style of tshirt.

dreamaster

raccoonbacon wrote:If you have nothing constructive to add, please stop posting... It stops being funny-sarcastic when you continuously use it to make asinine comments...

Take a lesson from ThunderThighs. Those responses have an air of respectability that yours do not.

Please let the mods mod, as you are unhelpful by seeming to be casually insulting someone with an opinion that differs from yours.

Anyway, I got the Anvil I accidentally ordered with the arrow to the knee and tried it on. While the loss of the length of the short is ok for us big folks, the fit under the arms for the 3x is much different, and not for me.

So, now I have two reasons to not purchase - the fit isn't the same, and they are sourced from a company that isn't American.

dreamaster

raccoonbacon wrote:I have no problem with a MOD actually MODding, but when all that is being added to this thread are unneeded, sarcastic comments - that is not MODding...

I find their comments extremely helpful, I like reading them, I want to see them.

See, we're at different ends of the reading scale, i could offer up what you do and respond that I don't want to see comments complaining about people voicing their opinions as you do when posting. Would that be helpful?

I don't think so. But if you believe so I can echo my opinion when you echo yours.

raccoonbacon

dreamaster wrote:I find their comments extremely helpful, I like reading them, I want to see them.

See, we're at different ends of the reading scale, i could offer up what you do and respond that I don't want to see comments complaining about people voicing their opinions as you do when posting. Would that be helpful?

I don't think so. But if you believe so I can echo my opinion when you echo yours.

Did you not see who, in particular, i was quoting in my original message?

dreamaster

raccoonbacon wrote:Did you not see who, in particular, i was quoting in my original message?

What I thought I saw when I read your post was someone telling all the people Whining about the t-shirt change to shut the hell up ( It was barely covered by a rancid alfredo sauce, but I sussed thru it ).

If I am incorrect and you actually embrace anyone expressing their dissent in the ways they find to do so - then I apologize in advance.

dreamaster

llandar wrote:Yes, because this thread has taught us that you guys handle sweeping changes like abruptly altering the layout of the site very well.

Speaking as a programmer with almost 15 years of experience, and currently working as a web developer deploying SOAP services, I can assure you that after reviewing the source code of the page that loads in the browser, I can find several areas when a tag "Made in America" or "poorly Made in honduras" can be added.

SkekTek

bassanimation wrote:Personally, I like Threadless' girls shirts the best. Of course they're a bajillion dollar company, they can afford to get their tees custom made just for their shop. Also, I've had crappy Threadless tees. They're not bulletproof by a longshot.

I've had lousy luck lately with Threadless. I have two shirts that started flaking off design after a few washes. Though the t's themselves are very nice.

Regarding wimmen's shirts, wife doesn't like woot shirts in general since she prefers larger v-necks- the wee necks on the woots are tight on her. dunno if the ANV ones are any better...

I think I'll reserve judgment on this entire issue until I get a shirt on the new blanks and compare its durability with my various other shirt types. But I'm still not happy about the higher prices.

raccoonbacon

dreamaster wrote:What I thought I saw when I read your post was someone telling all the people Whining about the t-shirt change to shut the hell up ( It was barely covered by a rancid alfredo sauce, but I sussed thru it ).

If I am incorrect and you actually embrace anyone expressing their dissent in the ways they find to do so - then I apologize in advance.

This thread is all about opinions; the more the merrier!

I do not care for this t-shirt change just like so many countless others and have voiced my opinions in this thread.

I especially do not care for Staff that generally only reply with non-constructive comments. Especially when so many of this thread's posted questions and concerns go unanswered...

thumperchick

I give up. I spent a few hours of my time testing the new shirts as a return of the good faith that ProfHotpants showed by sending them to me.
I continued following this thread because of the effort put in by ThunderThighs, GoldenThorn, and PHP.
But I will not continue to participate in a conversation where a member of the staff has nothing helpful to add, but feels the need to tear down others in a knee-jerk defensive reaction.

*****
I will not be purchasing the Anvil shirts for the following reasons:
1. The fit doesn't work on me and I really hate the sleeves. I seem to be the target demographic, but they just don't work on me.
2. Made in the USA matters to me. There are other US options besides AA.
3. The comments made, in this thread, by llander.

solitaint

For the past year or so, I've been visiting woot by typing shirt.woot.com into my address bar (well, actually I just typed "s" and the browser filled in the rest). But now that I'm no longer going to buy woot shirts, I'm not sure I want to see the design I'm not going to buy, even if that means missing the write-up.

Without the t-shirt, woot becomes just another sale-a-day site and a quirky deals aggregator.

Since it's pretty rare that I actually need what the other woot sites are selling, I think I might try out the other deals aggregators and just forget about woot. This may save me money and time, but it makes me sad.

(edit to add: What I'm reading about the Anvil shirts concerns me, but I'd be willing to give them a try if it were not for the labor and environmental issues. I'd be willing to pay more for verifiably ethical sourcing.)

dreamaster

Many of us like the snark and the silliness in the writeups; in the forums when folks are actually being serious, not so much.

Yes, in the writeups - absitively. And LLander should keep going gung ho on that.

As a person commenting on how hard it is to modify a web page? Well, there is a reason why people who are able to write an API get paid better than people who use a google API when making web sites.

Flexibility comes from people who can code instead of plugging in stuff. I can accept Woot saying it's tough to make the adjustment. I just hope they aren't paying too much for the developers that rely on the API instead of being able to insert a label or graphic near the order button.

And before the knee jerk response - go back and re-read the emails I sent back in 2006/2007 about a coding issue where I found a workaround to be able to order after the sold out came up.

Granted, these observations are solely based on the "difficulty" that was mentioned previously. Take the comments with a grain of salt as I am quite sure that Woot's developers can easily add the images. tags, or warnings some here have asked for. It's a crapload easier than figuring out how to block people from ordering after sellout or fishing for future deals (Guilty of trying).

chemnerd

llandar wrote:Yes, because this thread has taught us that you guys handle sweeping changes like abruptly altering the layout of the site very well.

This is a perfect example of the attitude that's just making this worse for me.

You add banners below the shirts all the time when it suits you, to push the old blanks and now for math shirts, but when it matters to the customer to inform them that after YEARS of using a company you're changing to a cheaper and inferior product - nope, let's hide that further down.

As a community it seems we all took the price hike just fine, so clearly we're OK with changes. What's not OK is this, the way it's executed with this special dash of jerky comments like you've made.

trekmiss

llandar wrote:Yes, because this thread has taught us that you guys handle sweeping changes like abruptly altering the layout of the site very well.

Actually, when Woot abruptly altered the entire layout of the site it only resulted in 5 pages of comments. So, all in all, I'd say we handled it pretty well. Besides, I doubt you would get much fuss over placing important information in a prominent place on the main page. Fuss over the shirt change? Yes. Fuss over the information? Nah, I doubt it.

Rannoch

paaiyan wrote:Alright, I'm going to say that I'll probably still buy Woot shirts, but I'd *really* like a tall version. The fit around the chest with the old medium shirts is great, and if it stays the same I'm cool. If the shirts end up shrinking to be shorter though it's going to be iffy. The old mediums were *just* long enough for me. If I buy a large shirt they're too baggy for me and I don't like it.

Here's a request for a Tall size that no one else might have brought up yet:

I have a license to and do carry a concealed firearm. If I have to reach above my head for something in public, I already have to be pretty careful in the old sizes. If the new ones end up any shorter I'm going to start having problems.

dreamaster

I am wearing the shirt I accidentally purchased before I found out about the change - the arrow to the knee t-shirt fits well around the chest and neck - but the way the shirt is binding on the underarm is noticeable. Will update as the day goes on.

niks

llandar wrote:No matter what YOU say, it's more about the limited options in our site layout.

llandar, you seem to have fooled yourself into thinking you are good at doing PR damage control.

Sure, no one here knows how a website design works. It's pretty much like an already printed book, right?

It is also interesting to see how the excuses (uh, *responses*) on the latest concern, are coming from llandar and ThunderThighs, i.e. writer and moderator, but woot staff that make the decisions don't even bother...

chennai8

niks wrote:It is also interesting to see how the excuses (uh, *responses*) on the latest concern, are coming from llandar and ThunderThighs, i.e. writer and moderator, but woot staff that make the decisions don't even bother...

I guess, llandar is the "Face of shirt.woot" now. His response is probably more entertaining to Woot staff than us.

vegghead6572

Im confused they were switching to Anvil right?...why did the new shirt come with AA tags? The AA shirt (new one) fits horribly so that means all my others shirts I have been buying were not AA how is that possible?..so confused now and not sure I want to buy from woot anymore .... old shirts that were not AA over 14 of them fit fine...now I get one with AA tags and it fits horribly...

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