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Re: What movie did you last watch?

I believe you're confused as to what depth of the film means. I'm a Bat forecaster and trust me.Tdkr wins.

I love the joker. But he doesn't have much depth.

No, I am not confused by what depth means. I am glad you are a "Bat forecaster" but on a message board my opinion means as much as yours so I'd appreciate it if you didn't infer that I just don't understand.

And if you say the Joker doesn't have much depth then on how God's green earth do any of Rises villains have great depth?

Re: What movie did you last watch?

In fact, it wouldn't surprise me to know that originally Wayne DID die and some test audience or pre screening for execs led to the idea maybe he shouldn't really die.... But I could be wrong...

There's virtually no chance there were test screenings for this movie. Nolan is very secretive/protective towards his plotsm(which could easily leak from test screening), and at this point he must have near or complete autonomy from Warner Brothers to do what he wanted.

Re: What movie did you last watch?

Spoiler:

Ok. So I was chewing on some of this last night. I want to clarify a few things.

1.) When I say that Rises is more of a typical super hero movie story arc and falls victim to some conventional super hero plot points, I do mean that as a criticism, but I don't mean this to say the movie is bad, I just don't think it pushed the boundaries of the genre to the same depth TDK did.

2.) So then I started thinking when did Rises fall into this trap, and I came back to a scene that is both one of my favorites for how hard it is too watch, but is also one of my least favorites because the dialogue doesn't make any sense in the context of this trilogy, and that is the Bane/Bat fight 1. Bane's dialogue here is all predicated that deep down Bruce is soft, he doesn't truly live in the darkness he's just adopted it, he's just a rich guy in the end and he can't beat someone who has really been through struggle. Uh...what? Then what was the point of Begins? Wasn't the whole point of this trilogy that Bat/Bruce are in darkness? How many times has Alfred had to tell Bruce to spend his money on lavish things otherwise he will look strange? Bruce hates what his money represents to him (his parents) and thus all the dialogue in this scene seems very forced to me the more I think on it, it doesn't make sense in the context of the themes so far. Yes, OK Batman is rich and Bane was probably poor...but, uh, congratulations for pointing that one out writers. Now MAYBE Nolan/writers are trying to foreshadow why Bane will eventually lose to Batman (lacks true understanding of his foe), but let's compare the writing in this scene to the scene from TDK it mostly closely mirrors...the Bat/Joker interrogation room scene. Joker's dialogue is truly trying to play with Batman's psyche here, basically saying it doesn't matter how many people you save, how many lives you change for the better or how many people I kill or main, in the end we will always be the same to everyone else...two freaks. Bane's speech by comparison is so boring, "In the end, you'll still be the rich guy from privilege and I'll be the one who really knows struggle." Would have much preferred Bane to have very little dialogue here which would have been a great juxtaposition to the always yapping Joker in the interrogation scene.

3.) Nolan should have taken a risk and killed Batman/Bruce or crippled him for good in the first fight scene. That would have given him a chance for a true change in the genre, to push the boundaries of what a superhero movie can be. Plus Bane have Bruce dead to rights and then letting him live so he can "torture his soul" only to have Bruce escape and eventually defeat him (surprise, surprise) is such a comic book villain mistake. Though you might have to remove Talia from the script, which I'm ok with Bane could still pull off the story arc with his mission being that he was a member of the league of shadows, I mean he had already over thrown an African government so it's not that big of a leap to say he'd move onto bigger fish eventually. That would have been great I think.

Then when the special forces group has failed and perhaps there are 18 or so hours left before the bomb goes off, right as Gordon goes out to start trying to mark trucks and gets captured, I would have had this scene. JGL witnesses the other cops getting trapped and he panics, I would have Gordon look up as they are being captured and say something about how the city needs the Batman now. JGL goes to Wayne manor which has been looted and ransacked. He finds a dirty and disheveled Alfred who has clearly been in a bad state since he discovered Bruce died at Bane's hands and decides to return to Wayne Manor before the city got shut off (he hid in the batcave when the house was looted). JGL begs Alfred to show him where Bruce's gear is. But Alfred refuses at first, saying that Batman has already killed Bruce and he won't let Batman kill anyone else. JGL appeals to Alfred about how Batman is bigger than Bruce important to Gotham, and he's the hero the city needs (symmetry with the end of Dark Knight.) Alfred flashes back to two scenes from the beginning of Batman Begins, one is Bruce speaking to him on the jet on the way home, "As a symbol, I can't be killed, I can be incorruptible. I need something terrifying, elemental." and then the scene down in the Batcave from Begins... "Why Bats Master Wayne?" "Bats scare me, it's time my enemies share my dread." Cut to Alfred pushing those keys on the piano and riding down in the elevator with the new Batman as they leave a destroyed and ransacked Wayne manor behind, symmetry with the end of Begins if anyone remembers the scene as the manor burns around them. The ending progresses in much the same way as Rises did, JGL saves Gordon and the cops and they put a bat signal on the bridge, only now Bane is really ****ing confused and perhaps even scared, Batman/Bruce is dead, but yet the Bat is back. The only thing is how to get rid of the bomb without JGL being killed and I guess you could throw in a throw away line like, "It looks like Bruce actually did manage to fix the auto pilot..."

I know, I know, I'm dealing in fan fiction, but IMO an ending like that would have had great symmetry with the first two movies, while also pushing the boundaries of what we know is possible in a good superhero movie. Instead we got a pretty cookie cutter ending all things considered and I think Nolan could have done better. It's not bad, and I know it would have been nearly impossible to please everyone, but I would have preferred the risk have been taken. Just my opinion, and that's why I will always view TDK as the deeper, more unique movie.

Re: What movie did you last watch?

I just didn't care for his Joker to the extent that some of you did. I thought it was ok but then again I don't think of the Dark Knight as a religious experiance the way some of you do either.

It's a movie, nothing more. You may like his take on the Joker I actually prefer Nicholsons take on the Joker.

Yes it's more comic bookish but I don't find that as a fault, I thought it fit the movie perfectly.

I thought the Joker in the Dark Knight was one of the best villians ever. In fact I cannot name a better one. Dark Knight overall wasn't a reigious experience, but it was one of the very few movies I've ever seen where right when it was over I turned to the person next to me and said wow that was a great movie. In fact my immediate reaction right after the movie was that I thought it was the best movie I had ever seen. After a day or two to let it sink in I still loved it, but I don't consider in my top 5 or so. It was thrilling though

Re: What movie did you last watch?

I just didn't care for his Joker to the extent that some of you did. I thought it was ok but then again I don't think of the Dark Knight as a religious experiance the way some of you do either.

It's a movie, nothing more. You may like his take on the Joker I actually prefer Nicholsons take on the Joker.

Yes it's more comic bookish but I don't find that as a fault, I thought it fit the movie perfectly.

I never used to have a problem with Nicholsons Joker and in fact used to love it as a kid, but my god, hes another Cesar Romero nowaday! The aging on his Joker just didn't go well at all, and I LOVE Tim Burton's take on Batman.

"Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

"And David put his hand in the bag and took out a stone and slung it. And it struck the Philistine on the head and he fell to the ground. Amen. "
Want your own "Just Say No to Kamen" from @mkroeger pic? http://twitpic.com/a3hmca

"Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

"And David put his hand in the bag and took out a stone and slung it. And it struck the Philistine on the head and he fell to the ground. Amen. "
Want your own "Just Say No to Kamen" from @mkroeger pic? http://twitpic.com/a3hmca

Re: What movie did you last watch?

No, I saw it too, I don't know what it is, but apparently it means he know more about Batman than the rest of us.

That was actually supposed to say loremaster but you can't take it as the way you want you jerk. I was more less just saying I know more than average batman fan, Who have simply gotten into the series do to christopher nolan's versions.

Re: What movie did you last watch?

That was actually supposed to say loremaster but you can't take it as the way you want you jerk. I was more less just saying I know more than average batman fan, Who have simply gotten into the series do to christopher nolan's versions.

Um, was this a friendly rib? I don't know if you and Joe are friends or not. If so, ha ha. If not, not cool zues not cool.

Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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Re: What movie did you last watch?

Let me rephrase...
Heath Ledger became the Joker. You did not look at the screen and see Heath Ledger. It was a complicated portrayal and one that required some chops to give a character like that a realism and gravitas. It was a fine line for him to not just appear to be a clown. He pulled it off masterfully IMHO with both subtleties and broad strokes.

OTOH, Nicholson's portrayal was just a comfortable comic book take on the role. It wasn't anything that was a stretch for Nicholson or the character. There was nothing subtle about the role and maybe thereI never once looked at the screen and didn't know Jack was the Joker. He didn't IMHO 'become' the Joker. Not that there's anything wrong with that because Ledger's Joker wouldn't have been right for that movie anymore than Nicholoson's would've been right for TDK.

Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

------

"A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

Re: What movie did you last watch?

That was actually supposed to say loremaster but you can't take it as the way you want you jerk. I was more less just saying I know more than average batman fan, Who have simply gotten into the series do to christopher nolan's versions.

Yes, but what we are discussing is Nolan's versions so the rest is fairly irrelevant. Also, I'm the jerk? You're the one who basically told me I didn't understand the meaning of depth.

EDIT: Didn't see that this was getting redirected back to other movies, my bad.