Ablecainsbrother, I've asked you a few times now but you've failed to reply. If evolution is correct, what would we expect to see? Give me one piece of evidence that both you and real scientists agree with should prove evolution.

You see, the problem here is that you don't know how to evaluate evidence. It doesn't matter that the evidence shows exactly what some of the most brilliant minds in the last 250 years have expected, because you don't agree with them. Well whoop-dee-doo, let's all just disagree with whatever we don't like and maybe the evidence will change.

"Sometimes people don't want to hear the truth because they don't want their illusions destroyed." ― Friedrich Nietzsche

abelcainsbrother wrote:How can you claim this evidence demonstrates macro-evolution?Because it doesn't,I know it explains it but it is not demonstrated.You could just read a bible instead and believe it.

I'll rescind my observation of your laziness if you briefly summarize how their experiment is only an explanation. PS, I know you didn't actually read it, because of this:

abelcainsbrother wrote:And again macro-evolution is not demonstrated.And like I have pointed out finches,fruit flies,salamanders,viruses,bacteria,eskimos,etc never evolve despite adapting to survive hostile environments.Natural selection has no effect on life and to assume it does without evidence that can demonstrate it can there is no need to keep piling on top of a theory that has not been proven,no matter how much you assume macro-evolution happens it must be demonstrated that it happens and then you can explain how it happens.

abelcainsbrother wrote:No they explained it as if it happened but did not present evidence to confirm macro-evolution happens.It amazes me how you and they can assume with no evidence.Don't you see how it is causing you to look at the evidence all wrong assuming without evidence that life evolves?

So you somehow know that they didn't present evidence to confirm macroevolution...even though you can't access the whole article and therefore can't actually read it? Who's the one making assumptions now? I do try to limit the number of restricted-access papers I post because it usually isn't fair to other people (which is why I offered to explain it to you), but in this case it served another purpose. It has explicitly demonstrated that:

Isotelus wrote:You have not in any instance on this or the OFNF thread directly addressed any refutation or links presented to you. I also think KNOW you're overlooking excellent research because you automatically assume that they're seeing it with an evolutionary perspective and therefore getting it wrong, as if you somehow possessed the expertise to make that judgment. And so you brush it aside without honestly taking it into consideration.

And by the way, please don't insult my intelligence by accusing me of looking at the evidence all wrong, lest I am forced to call upon the fruit flies, bacteria, and eskimos. And beavers.

Ooooh, beaver evolution...there is a showing trend that sexual selection makes a big difference in the preference of a suitable mate requiring for less hair being grown or even removed....

"In the end theologians are jealous of science, for they are aware that it has greater authority than do their own ways of finding “truth”: dogma, authority, and revelation. Science does find truth, faith does not. " - Jerry Coyne

OK I'm about to lay the smack down on all of you evolutionists and I hope there is an actual scientist here. Read this and know this is true.

If you believe in evolution because a scientist tells you it is true but can give you no scientific evidence to prove or demonstrate to you that life evolves then how can you reject a God like Jesus who died and suffered for you and can save you and give you eternal life?

Because if you would do what I say and challenge them scientists you put your faith in you'd see that they cannot give you any scientific evidence that backs up them telling you life evolves and yet for some reason you choose to believe them eventhough they can give you no evidence to back up their preaching to you about how life evolves.

I mean they'll explain to you how a dinosaur evolved into a bird but you never thought to challenge them and say I'd like to see a demonstration that proves scientifically that happens or you never thought to look at the evidence used as evidence for evolution and compared it it to what they describe and tell you about life evolving.

No you just believe them for some reason and are being fooled without realizing it and it causes you to reject what the bible has to say. But if you believe what scientists tell you without evidence then you could believe that preacher preaching about how Jesus Christ can save you and not demand evidence and just believe it and put your faith in it like you do evolution and what evolution scientists preach to you without evidence.

You can deny this all you want to but I know you have no evidence you can present that proves or demonstrates life evolves.You can put your faith in it if you want to but then don't get mad at Christians for believing what the bible has to say by faith because you are just like them with your evolution religion that cannot be backed upby any of the scientific evience you choose to believe by faith. Read that article written by a scientist explaining how a dinosaur evolved into a bird but know this he has no evidence that can demonstrate what he is explaining,it is pure assumption and faith.

This is why none of you have provided evidence that proves macro-evolution happens because you can't,because there is none. Now this can anger you,it is like a person who got caught up in a false religion cult and invested a lot of time and effort into it,yet he realizes he can no longer pretend and must face the truth.You evolutionists must face this truth even if you don't change your mind,know that me and everybody else knows you have zero evidence that can back up all of the preaching you do about how life evolves.

And now that this is the case you cannot use the fossils as evidence for evolution any more because they prove the Gap theory true you did not know about and not evolution.

abelcainsbrother wrote:OK I'm about to lay the smack down on all of you evolutionists and I hope there is an actual scientist here. Read this and know this is true.

If you believe in evolution because a scientist tells you it is true but can give you no scientific evidence to prove or demonstrate to you that life evolves then how can you reject a God like Jesus who died and suffered for you and can save you and give you eternal life?

Because if you would do what I say and challenge them scientists you put your faith in you'd see that they cannot give you any scientific evidence that backs up them telling you life evolves and yet for some reason you choose to believe them eventhough they can give you no evidence to back up their preaching to you about how life evolves.

I mean they'll explain to you how a dinosaur evolved into a bird but you never thought to challenge them and say I'd like to see a demonstration that proves scientifically that happens or you never thought to look at the evidence used as evidence for evolution and compared it it to what they describe and tell you about life evolving.

No you just believe them for some reason and are being fooled without realizing it and it causes you to reject what the bible has to say. But if you believe what scientists tell you without evidence then you could believe that preacher preaching about how Jesus Christ can save you and not demand evidence and just believe it and put your faith in it like you do evolution and what evolution scientists preach to you without evidence.

You can deny this all you want to but I know you have no evidence you can present that proves or demonstrates life evolves.You can put your faith in it if you want to but then don't get mad at Christians for believing what the bible has to say by faith because you are just like them with your evolution religion that cannot be backed upby any of the scientific evience you choose to believe by faith. Read that article written by a scientist explaining how a dinosaur evolved into a bird but know this he has no evidence that can demonstrate what he is explaining,it is pure assumption and faith.

This is why none of you have provided evidence that proves macro-evolution happens because you can't,because there is none. Now this can anger you,it is like a person who got caught up in a false religion cult and invested a lot of time and effort into it,yet he realizes he can no longer pretend and must face the truth.You evolutionists must face this truth even if you don't change your mind,know that me and everybody else knows you have zero evidence that can back up all of the preaching you do about how life evolves.

And now that this is the case you cannot use the fossils as evidence for evolution any more because they prove the Gap theory true you did not know about and not evolution.

And still you have no answer to the questions put to you - except to fall back on chanting your religious mantra.

So that's it? You concede that you can't answer our questions?

In order to believe anything you say, you'd have to prove:

1) the existence of a creator-entity - regardless of its type, whether monotheistic or polytheistic;2) that that creator-entity is the one in which you believe - Christian - against the around 4000 other religions in the world.

None of which disproves science.

Kindest regards,

James

"The Word of God is the Creation we behold and it is in this Word, which no human invention can counterfeit or alter, that God speaketh universally to man."The Age Of Reason

Given that you have raised and abandoned a number of pieces of alleged evidence over the course of this thread, do you concede that it is at least possible that you don't really understand the evidence?

"Life is nothing but an electron looking for a place to rest" -- Albert Szent-Gyrgyi

Just like I said earlier evolution is a lie from Satan the Devil,the father of lies,designed to cover up the truth of the Gap theory and how the evidence of an old earth,the fossils,coal and oil,ancient mysterious cities around this earth,etc that proves and gives evidence to the fact like the bible tells us a former world full of life existed that perished until God created this world we now live in.

And since you have no scientific evidence that proves life evolves,yet still chose to believe life evolves anyway,it has caused scientists to waste 150 years of piling evidence on top of a theory that life evolves for nothing,it has caused you to look at the evidence all wrong,because you looked at all of the evidence from an evolution perspective and fit it into your theory life evolves.

But all of the evidence really proves the biblical Gap theory true that Satan was trying to cover up. He does not want you to know the truth and deceived a lot of people with this evolution stuff. This can be hard to admit but is the truth and even if you reject the Gap theory and all of the evidence that confirms it true.

abelcainsbrother wrote:OK I'm about to lay the smack down on all of you evolutionists and I hope there is an actual scientist here. Read this and know this is true.

We are are holding our breath...

If you believe in evolution because a scientist tells you it is true but can give you no scientific evidence to prove or demonstrate to you that life evolves then how can you reject a God like Jesus who died and suffered for you and can save you and give you eternal life?

We don't "believe" in The theory of Evolution because we were told to, we have an acceptance fo the evidence and what it shows. I don't reject God and Jesus merely because I choose to I do. It's because the burden of proof of a religious standpoint has not met any acceptable standard to a rational thinking person. It's as simple as that. If proof was there, then I would accept it.

Because if you would do what I say and challenge them scientists you put your faith in you'd see that they cannot give you any scientific evidence that backs up them telling you life evolves and yet for some reason you choose to believe them eventhough they can give you no evidence to back up their preaching to you about how life evolves.

Creationists have been challenging since the inception of religion, and their only weapons have been fear and ignorance. Not once in our history has a supernatural explanation supplanted a naturalistic one, and every supernatural claim put up to a naturalistic one has been put aside.

I mean they'll explain to you how a dinosaur evolved into a bird but you never thought to challenge them and say I'd like to see a demonstration that proves scientifically that happens or you never thought to look at the evidence used as evidence for evolution and compared it it to what they describe and tell you about life evolving.

If we had discovered dinosaurs and named them such before we discovered birds, then they wouldn't be called birds. Think about that. Start picking out Birds, name as many as you can think of and I or someone else will demonstrate to you why dinosaurs are their ancestors..

No you just believe them for some reason and are being fooled without realizing it and it causes you to reject what the bible has to say. But if you believe what scientists tell you without evidence then you could believe that preacher preaching about how Jesus Christ can save you and not demand evidence and just believe it and put your faith in it like you do evolution and what evolution scientists preach to you without evidence.

That reason is once again a result of meeting the burden of proof. With the likes of Fedducia and the rest of B.A.N.D. these guys are so far the best at contorting evidence to fit their conclusions, yet the peer review process refutes them at every turn. An excellent example of using evidence to fit an agenda and still being torn apart by scrutiny and the scientific method.

As for preaching,.. you are preaching. Constantly. Without any actual evidence to back up your claims you rely on fear and ignorance to push your agenda. None of us have don that.

You can deny this all you want to but I know you have no evidence you can present that proves or demonstrates life evolves.You can put your faith in it if you want to but then don't get mad at Christians for believing what the bible has to say by faith because you are just like them with your evolution religion that cannot be backed upby any of the scientific evience you choose to believe by faith. Read that article written by a scientist explaining how a dinosaur evolved into a bird but know this he has no evidence that can demonstrate what he is explaining,it is pure assumption and faith.

Denial is based on not wanting to believe the truth or facts due to a personal reason. You are the denialist. I am not denying your claims, I am dismissing them due to the lack of merit behind each and every sentence you type.

This is why none of you have provided evidence that proves macro-evolution happens because you can't,because there is none. Now this can anger you,it is like a person who got caught up in a false religion cult and invested a lot of time and effort into it,yet he realizes he can no longer pretend and must face the truth.You evolutionists must face this truth even if you don't change your mind,know that me and everybody else knows you have zero evidence that can back up all of the preaching you do about how life evolves.

This statement is your own rational psyche crying out to you. This statement fits to you and people like you far more than it can apply to any of us.

And now that this is the case you cannot use the fossils as evidence for evolution any more because they prove the Gap theory true you did not know about and not evolution.

I'm sorry, did some one way back in the past call dibs on fossils, coal, and oil? This is still once again, utterly pathetic on how you choose to continue this thread. Same shit regurgitated over and over and over and over.

The Smack was not laid down. The only smacks laid down has been the repeated and insurmountable We should make up a plaque of some sort and send it to you.

"In the end theologians are jealous of science, for they are aware that it has greater authority than do their own ways of finding “truth”: dogma, authority, and revelation. Science does find truth, faith does not. " - Jerry Coyne

Last edited by Mugnuts on Thu Sep 04, 2014 1:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

Given that you have raised and abandoned a number of pieces of alleged evidence over the course of this thread, do you concede that it is at least possible that you don't really understand the evidence?

Well I did'nt abandoned evidence I presented to back up the Gap theory.I do believe Neanderthals were the descendants of Cain at this point based on what the bible says about Cain and based on what scientists have discovered about Neanderthals but this doesn't have anything to do with the Gap theory.

I've done a lot of research on evolution and have read alot about it and still do and it caused me to realize what I do about it.I have looked at the evidence used as evidence and realized it does not back up what they say about life evolving.I actually dig into evolution and this is how I realized it.Even if life does evolve it has not been demonstrated and so there is no reason to accept it as scientific truth.

If life evolves scientists must demonstrate it instead of just preaching it does.I focus on evidence not so much on what is said for anything I accept as truth especially if it is man's truth.If I'm wrong then find evidence that will prove and demonstrate life evolves and not just a paper that explains how it happened that I must believe by faith because I have the bible already for what I put my faith in.

abelcainsbrother wrote:Well I did'nt abandoned evidence I presented to back up the Gap theory.

Well, you haven't actually presented any extra-Biblical evidence apart from listing things like "fossils" without addressing any questions about how they support your claim but let's set that aside.

You made claims that the number of codons in DNA indicated a divine influence (based on an example diagram) and also that DNA contained literal letters. DYou also claimed not to disagree with radiometric dating without seeming to realize that you had already rejected its findings. o you acknowledge that these were incorrect and that they were a result of you drawing conclusions before you understood the data?

If so, is it possible you have done so in other areas as well?

abelcainsbrother wrote:I've done a lot of research on evolution and have read alot about it and still do and it caused me to realize what I do about it.

Can you give an example of a book you have read in the course of this research?

Also, if we pretend for a moment that there is actually any reason to think that Satan exists, what evidence do you have that he is specifically responsible for the evolution lie / fraud?

"Life is nothing but an electron looking for a place to rest" -- Albert Szent-Gyrgyi

Given that you have raised and abandoned a number of pieces of alleged evidence over the course of this thread, do you concede that it is at least possible that you don't really understand the evidence?

Well I did'nt abandoned evidence I presented to back up the Gap theory.I do believe Neanderthals were the descendants of Cain at this point based on what the bible says about Cain and based on what scientists have discovered about Neanderthals but this doesn't have anything to do with the Gap theory.

I've done a lot of research on evolution and have read alot about it and still do and it caused me to realize what I do about it.I have looked at the evidence used as evidence and realized it does not back up what they say about life evolving.I actually dig into evolution and this is how I realized it.Even if life does evolve it has not been demonstrated and so there is no reason to accept it as scientific truth.

If life evolves scientists must demonstrate it instead of just preaching it does.I focus on evidence not so much on what is said for anything I accept as truth especially if it is man's truth.If I'm wrong then find evidence that will prove and demonstrate life evolves and not just a paper that explains how it happened that I must believe by faith because I have the bible already for what I put my faith in.

You are just so lost in this imaginary concept of reality you live in. You have NOT done any research other than going as far as your bible allows you. You spout off claims and beliefs in satan and other conspiracy madness to no end, all the while floating on this cloud of ignorance to simple facts that anyone can verify.

You hold up your bible (which is pieces of paper) shouting how accurate and infallible it is without an ounce of rationality when it comes to the era we live in. We've grown as a species and discovered so much in that process, and you think that this book of centuries old fables had it right because a sky daddy inspired it. That is ridiculous. Christianity is but one of thousands of 'truths' thought up by man since the beginning of our history itself. If the bible was so fucking advanced and correct, then why have we progressed so much learning about diseases, the cosmos, geology, weather, energy and fuels, quantum physics, computer technology and so on.

Read some books, take some courses (iTunes U is mostly free). Start learning actual facts and quit grasping your asinine mythology regarding satan and scientific conspirators. At the least you can go through and take the time to learn even the basics about evolution, then you can say god started it in the beginning, but we still don't know how, and I would be fine with that. But you won't, as you have shown to be afraid to admit how insignificant we truly are in the big picture.

We don't have all the answers, no one does. That's why we look for them. If everyone thought like you did and claimed to know it all because of unconfirmed mythology then humanity would be lost. Another extinction to add to the #'s of earths little history.

I'm done. Talking to you has no fruits to bear. Nothing else funny to say, because you say nothing new or intelligible enough to retort anymore. You came here to preach or troll, and both are a waste of effort and time.

"In the end theologians are jealous of science, for they are aware that it has greater authority than do their own ways of finding “truth”: dogma, authority, and revelation. Science does find truth, faith does not. " - Jerry Coyne

abelcainsbrother wrote:Well I did'nt abandoned evidence I presented to back up the Gap theory.

Well, you haven't actually presented any extra-Biblical evidence apart from listing things like "fossils" without addressing any questions about how they support your claim but let's set that aside.

You made claims that the number of codons in DNA indicated a divine influence (based on an example diagram) and also that DNA contained literal letters. DYou also claimed not to disagree with radiometric dating without seeming to realize that you had already rejected its findings. o you acknowledge that these were incorrect and that they were a result of you drawing conclusions before you understood the data?

I have provided the kind of evidence you should expect to find if a former world full of life existed that perished like the biblical Gap theory teaches you just seem to skim over it like it doesn't apply but I have also proven that there is no scientific evidence that demonstrates life evolves and this is believed by faith and assumption because not one person has or can produce evidence,therefore the evidence of an old earth,fossils,coal and oil cannot be used as evidence for evolution.

If so, is it possible you have done so in other areas as well?

I am right about the Gap theory and no scientific evidence to prove life evolves.

abelcainsbrother wrote:I've done a lot of research on evolution and have read alot about it and still do and it caused me to realize what I do about it.

Can you give an example of a book you have read in the course of this research?

I read talkorigins and evolution web-sights and blogs mostly and this is where I get my info.

Also, if we pretend for a moment that there is actually any reason to think that Satan exists, what evidence do you have that he is specifically responsible for the evolution lie / fraud?

You believe life evolves with no evidence or proof and you do not see or observe it yet you believe it so why can't you believe Satan is your enemy out to deceive you to hell?

Given that you have raised and abandoned a number of pieces of alleged evidence over the course of this thread, do you concede that it is at least possible that you don't really understand the evidence?

Well I did'nt abandoned evidence I presented to back up the Gap theory.I do believe Neanderthals were the descendants of Cain at this point based on what the bible says about Cain and based on what scientists have discovered about Neanderthals but this doesn't have anything to do with the Gap theory.

I've done a lot of research on evolution and have read alot about it and still do and it caused me to realize what I do about it.I have looked at the evidence used as evidence and realized it does not back up what they say about life evolving.I actually dig into evolution and this is how I realized it.Even if life does evolve it has not been demonstrated and so there is no reason to accept it as scientific truth.

If life evolves scientists must demonstrate it instead of just preaching it does.I focus on evidence not so much on what is said for anything I accept as truth especially if it is man's truth.If I'm wrong then find evidence that will prove and demonstrate life evolves and not just a paper that explains how it happened that I must believe by faith because I have the bible already for what I put my faith in.

You are just so lost in this imaginary concept of reality you live in. You have NOT done any research other than going as far as your bible allows you. You spout off claims and beliefs in satan and other conspiracy madness to no end, all the while floating on this cloud of ignorance to simple facts that anyone can verify.

You hold up your bible (which is pieces of paper) shouting how accurate and infallible it is without an ounce of rationality when it comes to the era we live in. We've grown as a species and discovered so much in that process, and you think that this book of centuries old fables had it right because a sky daddy inspired it. That is ridiculous. Christianity is but one of thousands of 'truths' thought up by man since the beginning of our history itself. If the bible was so fucking advanced and correct, then why have we progressed so much learning about diseases, the cosmos, geology, weather, energy and fuels, quantum physics, computer technology and so on.

Read some books, take some courses (iTunes U is mostly free). Start learning actual facts and quit grasping your asinine mythology regarding satan and scientific conspirators. At the least you can go through and take the time to learn even the basics about evolution, then you can say god started it in the beginning, but we still don't know how, and I would be fine with that. But you won't, as you have shown to be afraid to admit how insignificant we truly are in the big picture.

We don't have all the answers, no one does. That's why we look for them. If everyone thought like you did and claimed to know it all because of unconfirmed mythology then humanity would be lost. Another extinction to add to the #'s of earths little history.

I'm done. Talking to you has no fruits to bear. Nothing else funny to say, because you say nothing new or intelligible enough to retort anymore. You came here to preach or troll, and both are a waste of effort and time.

I just refuse to allow myself to be indoctrinated by evolution science taught as truth to society yet there is no evidence to back it up and prove and demonstrate life evolves this is because the truth matters to me. I believe in the biblical Gap theory and I have given evidence for it while pointing out that the evidence used as evidence for evolution cannot be used for evolution,eventhough evolutionists have hijacked this evidence to support evolution.

Look at all of the people in the world who have been decieved by evolution science and it hurts me that so many people are probably going to hell because of propaganda of this evolution science. It makes no sense to me to believe in evolution and reject the bible when there is no evidence that life evolves despite all of the rhetoric about it.You simply believe in it by faith.A person should just believe in Jesus and the bible instead of being deceived without even realizing it.

I have done my research and I continue to do it and when you do it like I do you get good at picking out the truth from lies or theories.Well I reject evolution because of a lack of evidence which is rare in science because most science is backed up by evidence but not when it comes to evolution despite it being propped up above all other areas of science,it has the least amount of evidence to confirm it. This is because the Gap theory was true before Charles Darwin and is still true today.

So I guess it comes down to who you choose to believe over real evidence with all of you.But as for me when both evolution and the bible are believed by faith?God wins everytime there is no reason to believe life evolves over what the bible tells us.

And the evidence used as evidence for evolution actually proves and backs up what the bible tells us and demonstrates it and that is kinds produce after their kind,which is why viruses remain viruses,bacteria remains bacteria,fruit flies remain fruit flies and eskimos remain humans,etc and yet in order to believe in evolution you must ignore this evidence and assume and put your faith in something you have no evidence for that life evolves.When the scientific evidence supports and backs up what the bible tells us there is no reason to assume and believe life evolves for which there is no evidence.

It's the same thing you keep repeating over and over as if it were true.

You haven't answered the vast amount of questions regarding your position still. You just keep repeating that stupid mantra over and over. You are just trolling us.

Untill you go over the entirety of this thread and actually answer each of these unanswered, and ignored questions I propose that no one from this point on converse with you any further.

I made the proposition for you to do your homework a while back and come up with a valid presentation of your position, and lay out citations and sources. Actually take some time and do it.

"In the end theologians are jealous of science, for they are aware that it has greater authority than do their own ways of finding “truth”: dogma, authority, and revelation. Science does find truth, faith does not. " - Jerry Coyne

Right, I think this thread has reached its natural end. Well, it was actually stillborn, but whatever. ACB can continue to believe his Muslim whatchamacallits and hootaminoos, but this site isn't the place for reams of copypasta. There is Yahoo Answers for that.