Yeah surprised he was able to get 3 years. Not the youngest guy out there and while Colorado is a tough place to pitch, was just brutal there. Makes me wonder just how much a guy like Edwin Jackson could get now. Or how much a guy like Masterson could bring back in a deal...

Yeah surprised he was able to get 3 years. Not the youngest guy out there and while Colorado is a tough place to pitch, was just brutal there. Makes me wonder just how much a guy like Edwin Jackson could get now. Or how much a guy like Masterson could bring back in a deal...

There can't be any doubt that the deals being struck are reflecting the new national TV deal and the added financial punch to each club from it.

Yeah surprised he was able to get 3 years. Not the youngest guy out there and while Colorado is a tough place to pitch, was just brutal there. Makes me wonder just how much a guy like Edwin Jackson could get now. Or how much a guy like Masterson could bring back in a deal...

There can't be any doubt that the deals being struck are reflecting the new national TV deal and the added financial punch to each club from it.

I agree with your point, but 25 million for Guthrie is just wreck less. He's a decent starter at best. Just my opinion anyway

I think wreck less is a good term for it. I could see a vesting option or some sort of team / player option but that's simply crazy. I'm surprised, it's definitely a gamble on the prt of the Royals.

The Tigers released Ryan Raburn, he's a right handed bat that could man a cpl positions, could be a guy the Tribe has some interest in with his versatility and RH bat. He had an awful yr last yr but could be a guy they could sign on the cheap for the bench.

Also, noticed the Jays DFA'd 23 yo Mike McCade 1B by trade and a switch hitter, he's posted some decent numbers over the last few yrs seems like he may have an interesting bat somewhat. Not sure if he's anything --- or if he's was simply a roster causality w/ all the moves the Jays have been making.

Btw, I read on mlbtraderumors the DBax were 'looking at' Nakajima --- who the Yanx tried to grab last yr before he eventually ended up back in Japan. If signed by the Dbax that's likely one less suitor for ACab, and potentially the second potential suitor gone in as many days (Cards).

Nothing big, but a personal favorite of mine to follow once in a while, Mike McDade was DFA'd by Toronto today.

Still just 23 if I recall correctly, has interesting tools. Has good raw power and is a switch hitter, but he can be a whiff machine. Would be worth a shot if he didn't cost a spot on the 40, I'm fairly certain he'll be back in their farm.

Last edited by GoTribe028 on Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

homerawayfromhome wrote:I think wreck less is a good term for it. I could see a vesting option or some sort of team / player option but that's simply crazy. I'm surprised, it's definitely a gamble on the prt of the Royals.

The Tigers released Ryan Raburn, he's a right handed bat that could man a cpl positions, could be a guy the Tribe has some interest in with his versatility and RH bat. He had an awful yr last yr but could be a guy they could sign on the cheap for the bench.

Also, noticed the Jays DFA'd 23 yo Mike McCade 1B by trade and a switch hitter, he's posted some decent numbers over the last few yrs seems like he may have an interesting bat somewhat. Not sure if he's anything --- or if he's was simply a roster causality w/ all the moves the Jays have been making.

Btw, I read on mlbtraderumors the DBax were 'looking at' Nakajima --- who the Yanx tried to grab last yr before he eventually ended up back in Japan. If signed by the Dbax that's likely one less suitor for ACab, and potentially the second potential suitor gone in as many days (Cards).

Yeah surprised he was able to get 3 years. Not the youngest guy out there and while Colorado is a tough place to pitch, was just brutal there. Makes me wonder just how much a guy like Edwin Jackson could get now. Or how much a guy like Masterson could bring back in a deal...

There can't be any doubt that the deals being struck are reflecting the new national TV deal and the added financial punch to each club from it.

I agree with your point, but 25 million for Guthrie is just wreck less. He's a decent starter at best. Just my opinion anyway

Going from a team/environment like the Rockies (and their hitter happy park) to the vast expanses of Kaufman Stadium and the thoroughly professional approach to playing the game fundamentally sound like the Royals do, did wonders for Jeremy Guthrie and his penchant for giving up the long ball. It's not going to happen in the Big K and his August, September and October numbers prove it: In 12 Starts, 80.2 IP (6.2 IP/start), 21 ER (2.34 ERA), 3:1 KBB and two home runs allowed in 8 of the 12 starts at home. I'd take that out of ANY SP the Indians have and pay $ 8.3 MM/yr for it, happily. The Royals have made a smart decision.

homerawayfromhome wrote:....Btw, I read on mlbtraderumors the DBax were 'looking at' Nakajima --- who the Yanx tried to grab last yr before he eventually ended up back in Japan. If signed by the Dbax that's likely one less suitor for ACab, and potentially the second potential suitor gone in as many days.. (Cards).

There are still suitors out there for the services of an impact offensive SS and an inexpensive five tool RF'er. The Hot Stove has yet to reach the Winter Meetings where fun and excitement truly begin to boil !

I'd pass on McDade. Like someone said, if he did not cost a spot on the 40-man, then maybe.....but I'd rather see what Lars Anderson can do as he still probably has more upside.

As for the Guthrie deal, it is simply an awful deal. It's the risk teams will have to take with starting pitching this offseason as they will have to overpay for it, but to give him 3 years for that amount is laughable.

homerawayfromhome wrote:Btw, I read on mlbtraderumors the DBax were 'looking at' Nakajima --- who the Yanx tried to grab last yr before he eventually ended up back in Japan. If signed by the Dbax that's likely one less suitor for ACab, and potentially the second potential suitor gone in as many days (Cards).

They may be looking at Nakajima because they were not sold on the Indians asking price...and Furcal being healthy does not mean the Cardinals are not still a suitor. I would be happy if the Indians were unable to deal Cabrera because they were asking to much. An All Star shortstop with 2 years left needs to be treated as such. We can't act like he needs to be traded, and we can't fear the idea of getting nothing but a comp pick for him when he becomes an FA.

Dbax are reportedly interested in Peralta. Obviously, the Dbax are gonna land a SS but at what cost? I'm somewhat of an ACab fan but IF they can move him and bring back an arm like Lynn, Skaggs, Bauer, Bradley they should.

It could very well be the Tribe and Dbax come to terms of some sort, maybe the Dbax meet the Tribes demand or the Tribe kicks in a player like Joe Smith or Lou Marson to sweeten the deal to get it done. There's an obvious match IMO the Dbax need a SS and the Tribe needs pitching.

As for the Tribe and Cards matching up, I think we could still see something get done between the two clubs. Furcals health is a concern for the Cards and Furcal could easily bump over to 2b giving them more infield depth. They have a by solid team and can afford to make a move for ACab IMO.

Yeah surprised he was able to get 3 years. Not the youngest guy out there and while Colorado is a tough place to pitch, was just brutal there. Makes me wonder just how much a guy like Edwin Jackson could get now. Or how much a guy like Masterson could bring back in a deal...

There can't be any doubt that the deals being struck are reflecting the new national TV deal and the added financial punch to each club from it.

Possible...then again, the Royals gave Gil Meche 5yr/$55M a few years ago. Think this signing is more just a small market club overpaying to get a free agent as they know it's hard to get players to come on KC.

I'd probably DFA all of those except Huff, Seddon, and Gomez - for now.

I keep LaPorta and Gomez. I just don't think you can cut LaPorta yet. With 1B, DH, and LF open he should at least be given a shot in spring training IMO. Seddon pitched ok but I'd DFA him and try and bring him back on a minor league deal again. Can't see him getting a ML deal from someone on the open market. Huff...don't see him winning a rotation spot and not sold on him in the pen. I'd keep him if there was no one to add but don't think losing him would be that catastrophic.

homerawayfromhome wrote:I think wreck less is a good term for it. I could see a vesting option or some sort of team / player option but that's simply crazy. I'm surprised, it's definitely a gamble on the prt of the Royals.

The Tigers released Ryan Raburn, he's a right handed bat that could man a cpl positions, could be a guy the Tribe has some interest in with his versatility and RH bat. He had an awful yr last yr but could be a guy they could sign on the cheap for the bench.

Also, noticed the Jays DFA'd 23 yo Mike McCade 1B by trade and a switch hitter, he's posted some decent numbers over the last few yrs seems like he may have an interesting bat somewhat. Not sure if he's anything --- or if he's was simply a roster causality w/ all the moves the Jays have been making.

Btw, I read on mlbtraderumors the DBax were 'looking at' Nakajima --- who the Yanx tried to grab last yr before he eventually ended up back in Japan. If signed by the Dbax that's likely one less suitor for ACab, and potentially the second potential suitor gone in as many days (Cards).

If you could get Raburn on a minor league deal I'd be all for it. Has position versatility and has hit lefties very well in the past (though was just all-around terrible this year). He will be 32 next year so a minor league deal may be all he can get. Think the Rays are a potential fit though as well.

homerawayfromhome wrote:What about Jack Hannahan. I mean they must see value in him or something bc if they are going to no tender him wouldn't they go ahead and DFA him? Just thinking out loud here...

Btw, small move on part of the Dbax but they flipped Ryan Wheeler-1b to the Rockies for Matt Reynolds-LHRP.

I doubt they see very much value in Hannahan, if any. I doubt he makes it past New year as an Indians ball player.

homerawayfromhome wrote:What about Jack Hannahan. I mean they must see value in him or something bc if they are going to no tender him wouldn't they go ahead and DFA him? Just thinking out loud here...

Btw, small move on part of the Dbax but they flipped Ryan Wheeler-1b to the Rockies for Matt Reynolds-LHRP.

I doubt they see very much value in Hannahan, if any. I doubt he makes it past New year as an Indians ball player.

The commentary on the value of Jack Hannahan is misplaced. The current choice of third basemen available in the market includes the soon to be 34 year old "Greek God of Walks" and an even older Eric Chavez. Having Jack Hannahan as a more than solid defensive hot corner guy with Chief Wahoo on his sleeve isn't such a bad thing considering the alternatives.

That's why I could see Jack getting moved in a minor deal. I know the Yanks, Dodgers, Dbax, and Phillies all have interest in acq. a 3B. I'm just curious if he's in a holding patten right now bc of on going trade talks RE: himself or another player even.

Jacks too valuable in a sense to just dump. He's one the guys that probably doesn't fit unless they trade someone... Maybe ACab which moves Aviles to the primary SS and Jack back as a corner INF / defensive replacement.

The Marlins will apparently consider trade offers for Nolasco, Escobar and Logan Morrison this winter. Each player has trade value, though none of them had particularly strong seasons in 2012. Nolasco, who has one year remaining on his contract with Miami, could appeal to teams seeking rotation help such as the Angels, Yankees, Red Sox and Twins.

Escobar, the Marlins’ projected third baseman, would also generate interest on the trade market. The Diamondbacks, Athletics and Cardinals are among the teams that could be looking for help on left side of the infield this offseason. Escobar has a team friendly contract, and there’s simply not much out there for teams seeking infield help.

If the Marlins trade Morrison this offseason, they'd definitely be selling low. The 25-year-old dealt with a knee injury this past season, and was limited to just 93 games. He hasn't yet qualified for arbitration, so he's affordable for now. In the event that the Marlins do listen to offers for Morrison, clubs like the Rays, Red Sox and Indians could check in.Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#Gvs16LZglFvT74m3.99

All three of these guys could be significant to us. I'm very curious what they could get in a deal for Nolasco considering the FA market. If Nolasco can be sold for something pretty good, we would have to consider dealing Masterson, even though I would not be a fan of it.

With the cost $$$ of players going up its easy to figure guys like Masterson, Choo, ACab and even CPerez would be looking more affordable to other teams right now.

Of those four I think they should keep Masterson and try to aggressively move the others -not giving them away but consider adding in parts to get a deal done- in return for pitching and a handful of prospects too. IMO, it would take a Latos or Gonzalez type deal to move Masterson right now. It's not out of the question but who is likely to make such an aggressive move?

homerawayfromhome wrote:What about Jack Hannahan. I mean they must see value in him or something bc if they are going to no tender him wouldn't they go ahead and DFA him? Just thinking out loud here...

Btw, small move on part of the Dbax but they flipped Ryan Wheeler-1b to the Rockies for Matt Reynolds-LHRP.

I doubt they see very much value in Hannahan, if any. I doubt he makes it past New year as an Indians ball player.

Agree with you here GoTribe. Suppose it makes some sense to hold on to him to see what happens via the trade market, but as the roster is built now there is no place for Hanny on the roster unless they like him or Aviles as their starting 1B (and can't see that). But with Juan Diaz, Jason Donald, Cord Phelps, Mike Aviles, and Yan Gomes all on the roster and all capable of being ML utility infielder options I just think Hanny is way overkill at this point. Though I think Cord Pheps is a guy that should also be considered for a DFA...

homerawayfromhome wrote:What about Jack Hannahan. I mean they must see value in him or something bc if they are going to no tender him wouldn't they go ahead and DFA him? Just thinking out loud here...

Btw, small move on part of the Dbax but they flipped Ryan Wheeler-1b to the Rockies for Matt Reynolds-LHRP.

I doubt they see very much value in Hannahan, if any. I doubt he makes it past New year as an Indians ball player.

Agree with you here GoTribe. Suppose it makes some sense to hold on to him to see what happens via the trade market, but as the roster is built now there is no place for Hanny on the roster unless they like him or Aviles as their starting 1B (and can't see that). But with Juan Diaz, Jason Donald, Cord Phelps, Mike Aviles, and Yan Gomes all on the roster and all capable of being ML utility infielder options I just think Hanny is way overkill at this point. Though I think Cord Pheps is a guy that should also be considered for a DFA...

With being in the AL, you can afford to keep a defensive specialist over the likes of Diaz, Donald, and Phelps (in the NL, bench guys have to have some value as pinch hitters). Hanny does have somewhat of a clutch bat. What really hurts Hanny's chances of being on the 40 is he hits lefties and he's arby. I just don't see the Tribe offering him arby. He could be included in a trade or offered a lower salary (although not a qualifying offer). There are some scenarios that I can see him on the 40 when ST opens but most of those scenarios are quite remote.

homerawayfromhome wrote:What about Jack Hannahan. I mean they must see value in him or something bc if they are going to no tender him wouldn't they go ahead and DFA him? Just thinking out loud here...

Btw, small move on part of the Dbax but they flipped Ryan Wheeler-1b to the Rockies for Matt Reynolds-LHRP.

I doubt they see very much value in Hannahan, if any. I doubt he makes it past New year as an Indians ball player.

Agree with you here GoTribe. Suppose it makes some sense to hold on to him to see what happens via the trade market, but as the roster is built now there is no place for Hanny on the roster unless they like him or Aviles as their starting 1B (and can't see that). But with Juan Diaz, Jason Donald, Cord Phelps, Mike Aviles, and Yan Gomes all on the roster and all capable of being ML utility infielder options I just think Hanny is way overkill at this point. Though I think Cord Pheps is a guy that should also be considered for a DFA...

With being in the AL, you can afford to keep a defensive specialist over the likes of Diaz, Donald, and Phelps (in the NL, bench guys have to have some value as pinch hitters). Hanny does have somewhat of a clutch bat. What really hurts Hanny's chances of being on the 40 is he hits lefties and he's arby. I just don't see the Tribe offering him arby. He could be included in a trade or offered a lower salary (although not a qualifying offer). There are some scenarios that I can see him on the 40 when ST opens but most of those scenarios are quite remote.

True, but Donald is out of options (I believe). I can't see him being let go for Hanny though maybe I'm wrong. Also, Juan Diaz is on the 40-man almost solely for his defense/ability to play SS. Not a gold-glove guy there but really the only backup other than Aviles (who could be the starter) that is a true SS. I think he has a very realistic shot of making this club if Cabrera is deal. These reasons plus what you mentioned with arby and being a lefty (and REALLY struggling against them this year) are why I think he's gonna be gone sometime this winter. Suppose it can't hurt to try and trade him but many better options out there. Do like Hanny's defense and think he can be a good bench guy for the right team but not sure teams would be willing to deal for him. Maybe a throw-in for some deal this winter.

I completely agree there are just too many options for the Tribe to hold onto Hannahan for now. The only reason I can see them keeping him around is bc they either feel like they can move him or for roster protection ahead of a trade. If nothing gets done by Nov. 30th then they simply decline to tender his contract BUT if that was their intention they probably would have done it already - so my guess is they are kicking something else around - which is why he still has some 'value' to the team.

homerawayfromhome wrote:Mlbtraderumors is reporting the RedSox are close to signing Jonny Gomes to a 2 yr deal.

Could be one less suitor for Choo, although Gomes is more of a platoon type / DH bat than an everyday RF. it also looks like Cody Ross may have one less suitor.

You don't need a group of suitors, you need the one that is going to give you what you are looking for, a starting pitcher that is currently in the majors or one who will be to start the 2013 season. That said, the following was offered in a 2:00 pm chat with Ben Nicholson Smith of MLB Trade Rumors:

-Comment From East Coast Bias, Wednesday November 21, 2012 3:30: Do the Yankees and Indians match up for a Choo trade? -3:30 Ben Nicholson-Smith: Yes, I think there's a definite match there.

Another "hot stove" item popped up during the chat, not directed at any specific team, but interesting as earlier in the day, a comment / trade proposal was proffered by a Royals fan:

-Comment From Jon Daniels: Wednesday November 21, 2012 3:55 Any big moves for me? 3:55 Ben Nicholson-Smith: You've got to think so. They have big time needs in the outfield and behind the plate. Plus I expect they'll acquire a starter.

Earlier in the day, at a "TUT" Sight for baseball rumors, aspiring GM's and blog authors drumming up interesting quotes, characters and writers, the following was offered:

My response to the initial trade and first response was: The impetus of this trade is for KC to acquire young, talented and controlled SP's. The other two teams, Tx and Cle, have their own agendas. For Cle, they need to acquire ready to contend for ML job type players who are young talented & cheap. For TX they need a catcher, Josh Hamilton's replacement, and a shut down bullpen arm. When proposing a three team deal, less is usually more:

KC loves this deal because they acquire two SPs who are under team control through the 2014 season. Cle loves this deal because they acquire two ready now players (an SP & an OF'er) along with three well regarded prospects to restock their farm system. Tx loves this deal because they get a cost controlled catcher, an outstanding bullpen arm and a highly talented replacement for Josh Hamilton.

Do the five guys, Martin Perez (LHSP = starts in Cle in 2013), John Lamb (LHSP) Leonys Martin (LH-CF/OF), Lorenzo Cain (RH-CF/OF = starts in Cle in 2013) and Lewis Brinson (RH-OF), represent equal value for the loss of Carlos Santana, two years of Justin Masterson & one year of Chris Perez ? This would also reduce the Indians payroll by approximately $ 14 MM in 2013.

GeronimoSon wrote:Another "hot stove" item popped up during the chat, not directed at any specific team, but interesting as earlier in the day, a comment / trade proposal was proffered by a Royals fan:

-Comment From Jon Daniels: Wednesday November 21, 2012 3:55 Any big moves for me? 3:55 Ben Nicholson-Smith: You've got to think so. They have big time needs in the outfield and behind the plate. Plus I expect they'll acquire a starter.

Earlier in the day, at a "TUT" Sight for baseball rumors, aspiring GM's and blog authors drumming up interesting quotes, characters and writers, the following was offered:

My response to the initial trade and first response was: The impetus of this trade is for KC to acquire young, talented and controlled SP's. The other two teams, Tx and Cle, have their own agendas. For Cle, they need to acquire ready to contend for ML job type players who are young talented & cheap. For TX they need a catcher, Josh Hamilton's replacement, and a shut down bullpen arm. When proposing a three team deal, less is usually more:

KC loves this deal because they acquire two SPs who are under team control through the 2014 season. Cle loves this deal because they acquire two ready now players (an SP & an OF'er) along with three well regarded prospects to restock their farm system. Tx loves this deal because they get a cost controlled catcher, an outstanding bullpen arm and a highly talented replacement for Josh Hamilton.

Do the five guys, Martin Perez (LHSP = starts in Cle in 2013), John Lamb (LHSP) Leonys Martin (LH-CF/OF), Lorenzo Cain (RH-CF/OF = starts in Cle in 2013) and Lewis Brinson (RH-OF), represent equal value for the loss of Carlos Santana, two years of Justin Masterson & one year of Chris Perez ? This would also reduce the Indians payroll by approximately $ 14 MM in 2013.

Thoughts?

Ugh, I hate these overly convoluted deals. That's a lot of talent going around from team to team in different levels. Can't say I wouldn't have been intrigued by the players coming back.

GeronimoSon wrote:Another "hot stove" item popped up during the chat, not directed at any specific team, but interesting as earlier in the day, a comment / trade proposal was proffered by a Royals fan:

-Comment From Jon Daniels: Wednesday November 21, 2012 3:55 Any big moves for me? 3:55 Ben Nicholson-Smith: You've got to think so. They have big time needs in the outfield and behind the plate. Plus I expect they'll acquire a starter.

Earlier in the day, at a "TUT" Sight for baseball rumors, aspiring GM's and blog authors drumming up interesting quotes, characters and writers, the following was offered:

My response to the initial trade and first response was: The impetus of this trade is for KC to acquire young, talented and controlled SP's. The other two teams, Tx and Cle, have their own agendas. For Cle, they need to acquire ready to contend for ML job type players who are young talented & cheap. For TX they need a catcher, Josh Hamilton's replacement, and a shut down bullpen arm. When proposing a three team deal, less is usually more:

KC loves this deal because they acquire two SPs who are under team control through the 2014 season. Cle loves this deal because they acquire two ready now players (an SP & an OF'er) along with three well regarded prospects to restock their farm system. Tx loves this deal because they get a cost controlled catcher, an outstanding bullpen arm and a highly talented replacement for Josh Hamilton.

Do the five guys, Martin Perez (LHSP = starts in Cle in 2013), John Lamb (LHSP) Leonys Martin (LH-CF/OF), Lorenzo Cain (RH-CF/OF = starts in Cle in 2013) and Lewis Brinson (RH-OF), represent equal value for the loss of Carlos Santana, two years of Justin Masterson & one year of Chris Perez ? This would also reduce the Indians payroll by approximately $ 14 MM in 2013.

Thoughts?

I'd have to agree that in that first deal the Rangers are giving way, way too much for what they are getting back. Hard to read that post but looks you the Rangers would be giving up Feliz, Harrison, Andrus, Cruz, and Olt (wow!) while getting Masterson, Choo, Perez, Cain, and Escobar?!??

They are downgrading at SS, may be downgrading in the rotation, only a slight upgrade in RF, Cain may not start in Texas (have some nice young OF options), and don't really need a closer like Perez (have Joe Nathan still). The upgrade of Choo from Nelson in RF is obviously not worth that huge deal.

The 2nd deal seems more reasonable. Still don't see Texas adding a guy like Chris Perez as they have better bullpen options and not sure they want to pay a setup guy $7M next year. Would get him for 2 years though (not 1 as mentioned) so maybe they'd use him as the closer in 2014 but Nathan has a $9M option that year. he could be cheaper and was actually better this year than Perez. Gonna be up there in age but again, dont' see Perez in Texas as a fit.

As far as dealing Santana....really think he is close to untouchable, but that group of guys are pretty intriguing. I'd say no to the deal but not so much for what we got back, but simply don't think you can deal Santana. He agreed to a long-term deal, and while it mostly is only pre-arby and arby years, still seems like the wrong time to move him, especially after the backlash the Marlins just got. Even if you deem the deal fair in prospects, just think losing Santana would result in too much backlash from the fans. He needs to stay IMO.

A few days ago I mentioned the Dbax had interest in Jhonny Peralta but not at SS, instead they wanted to move him over to 3B. They also recently flipped Ryan Wheeler - 1b/3b to the Rockies for Matt Reynolds - LHRP. A few things I get from that...

1. The Dbax want to solidify their left side of the INF. as they have reportedly had interest in adding an everyday SS and potentially a 3b as well. We've discussed the possibilities of the Tribe moving ACab to the Dbax on this board a number of times, but what about the potential of moving Lonnie Chisenhall in a trade with the Dbax. I know they acq. Chris Johnson last yr from the Astros but they are apparently looking for more at 3b, could Chiz be the answer? I'd doubt the clubs do it, but the Tribe is said to be willing to listen on everyone. Chiz is certainly a part of the future for the Tribe but if Chiz could land that young controllable starter this club needs I'd be willing to listen. Maybe the Tribe could bring back Chris Johnson to fill Chisenhalls void. I'm just saying there are a number of things that could happen, some we may not expect.

2. What's Joe Smith worth in a trade? We've seen Matt Reynolds net Ryan Wheeler, and last yr Edwin Mujica netted the Marlins Zack Cox. What could the Tribe get for one yr of Joe Smith? I think these two trades help us see mkt value for Smith which I consider to be pretty solid returns, although I'd rather see the Tribe snag a young starter potentially in a few yrs away even to net value.

3. The Dbax have reportedly looked in various places to net the SS they want, including most recently the Japanese SS - his name has slipped my mind- the Yanks tried to sign last yr. the way I see it something is going to get done, it may not necessarily be with the Tribe but the Dbax and Tribe match up quite well, something I think bears watching as we approach the winter mtgs. There's likely to be an increase in talks and potentially a deal struck. Neither club has moved yet and my guess is we could be hearing more rumors swirl as the mtgs approach.

Some news about Mark Reynolds, Nothing really new, just states Cleveland could be interested if Orioles don't bring him back. Also links us to Youk again.

I expect the Orioles to go in a different direction at first base, allowing Reynolds to explore free agency. He may receive some two-year offers, and as we saw with Melky Cabrera, sometimes a player decides a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. If Reynolds prefers a bigger risk and potential long-term reward, he can stick to a one-year deal with no option and hope to hit .250 with 35 home runs while continuing to improve his defensive reputation. That type of season would allow him to cash in a year from now. Teams such as the Mariners and Indians, who have been linked to Kevin Youkilis, could consider Reynolds as a backup plan at first base this offseason.Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#52U6W6a4WXLUDUIp.99

A few days ago I mentioned the Dbax had interest in Jhonny Peralta but not at SS, instead they wanted to move him over to 3B. They also recently flipped Ryan Wheeler - 1b/3b to the Rockies for Matt Reynolds - LHRP. A few things I get from that...

1. The Dbax want to solidify their left side of the INF. as they have reportedly had interest in adding an everyday SS and potentially a 3b as well. We've discussed the possibilities of the Tribe moving ACab to the Dbax on this board a number of times, but what about the potential of moving Lonnie Chisenhall in a trade with the Dbax. I know they acq. Chris Johnson last yr from the Astros but they are apparently looking for more at 3b, could Chiz be the answer? I'd doubt the clubs do it, but the Tribe is said to be willing to listen on everyone. Chiz is certainly a part of the future for the Tribe but if Chiz could land that young controllable starter this club needs I'd be willing to listen. Maybe the Tribe could bring back Chris Johnson to fill Chisenhalls void. I'm just saying there are a number of things that could happen, some we may not expect.

2. What's Joe Smith worth in a trade? We've seen Matt Reynolds net Ryan Wheeler, and last yr Edwin Mujica netted the Marlins Zack Cox. What could the Tribe get for one yr of Joe Smith? I think these two trades help us see mkt value for Smith which I consider to be pretty solid returns, although I'd rather see the Tribe snag a young starter potentially in a few yrs away even to net value.

3. The Dbax have reportedly looked in various places to net the SS they want, including most recently the Japanese SS - his name has slipped my mind- the Yanks tried to sign last yr. the way I see it something is going to get done, it may not necessarily be with the Tribe but the Dbax and Tribe match up quite well, something I think bears watching as we approach the winter mtgs. There's likely to be an increase in talks and potentially a deal struck. Neither club has moved yet and my guess is we could be hearing more rumors swirl as the mtgs approach.

Not a fan of trading Chiz but agree that we need to keep an open mind there. If it got us a guy like potentially a Skaggs I'd consider it (doubt the D'backs would offer that though). Could keep Cabrera to start the year and go with Aviles at 3B in such a scenario.

Agree also on trading Smith or at least seeing what his value is. I think a more likely scenario would be the Tribe giving him a 2 year or 2 year+option deal this winter. He's a guy the Tribe has liked since college (as mentioned before) and giving the team 67 solid innings each of the past 2 years. It can be beneficial to have a guy throwing for that weird angle in the pen. While we do have lots of arms in the minors that look like they could replace him, think having a guy like Smith in the 8th inning (assuming they deal Perez) could be beneficial. Nice to have some kind of vet in there.

Cabrera to the D'backs does make a ton of sense. Think a problem is there are other SS's out there that the D'backs can go after. Yunel Escobar is cheaper and potentially under team control longer (via team options). Better defensive SS as well, which is something they may be putting a premium on (based on interest in Andrus, Texas trying to get Simmons to flip, and their acquasition of Pennington). I just hope the Tribe doesn't lower their demands on Cabrera because they are worried the market for him will dry up with teams opting for less expensive options (in both money and prospects/players). Think Cabrera is a guy that could potentially have more value at the deadline. Seen him get off to a hot start each of the last two years and would still have a year and a half left (so team could still get draft pick eventually). His value could potentially be even higher in July actually...

I completely agree they don't have to move ACab although I think they should look aggressively in order to fill the pitching void. I would heavily pursue a move with Choo and Chris Perez but they Tribe could hold all of these pieces and flip them at the deadline. I think the best approach is to fill the holes now and that means moving what you can now and reassessing as you go.

I'm just kidding saying this... But maybe the Tribe could get Escobar to corner the mkt. While I'm at why not just try to flip ACab for Escobar and Morrison?

homerawayfromhome wrote:I completely agree they don't have to move ACab although I think they should look aggressively in order to fill the pitching void. I would heavily pursue a move with Choo and Chris Perez but they Tribe could hold all of these pieces and flip them at the deadline. I think the best approach is to fill the holes now and that means moving what you can now and reassessing as you go.

I'm just kidding saying this... But maybe the Tribe could get Escobar to corner the mkt. While I'm at why not just try to flip ACab for Escobar and Morrison?

I disagree a bit on Choo as not sure he could have more value at the deadline as he won't net the team getting him draft picks, but Cabrera and Perez both could I think (though still think you almost have to deal Perez this winter).

I know many won't like it but personally think that would be a solid return for Cabrera. Escobar has his issues but a better defender than AC and has the ability to hit just as well. Also will make less in the next 3 seasons than Cabrera will make over the next 2. Sounds like the Tribe won't move Cabrera though without getting pitching in return...which isn't a bad thing.

Well, Hermie, you've been critical of Asdrubal since the first Fangraphs UZR150 described his defense as mediocre to poor and you've remained consistent. This latest indirect slam of Droobs (getting Yunel instead of Droobs because he may be able to hit just as well and fields better and the tribe also gets Logan dot dot dot yada yada) is what it it.. As stated the first time, as well as every time since, the eye test results for Droobs work with the leather doesn't agree with the UZR findings.. The eye test wins.

You are right about the return for Droobs.. if it isn't starting pitching (or "...filling the pitching void..." whatever that means),then Indians should pass.. btw.. which one of Logan Morrison and Yunel Escobar are being converted to pitching? (just kidding). That trade, albeit unlikely, would be very nice for no other reason than the potential Lo-Mo would bring to our teepee and the excitement the real Indians fans would get over a bona fide power hitting corner OF'er/1B. I'm sure Brinda and Triv and the stooges who write of the Plain Dull/Akron Beacon Urinal/et al would write glowing reports about the innovative and positive direction Mr Dolan & the front office is pursuing !.. Maybe Mr Dolan can claim he's going to look into getting a better score board and hang bunting to improve the fan experience, as well?

Choo's value is that he is a well regarded five tool player that can step into any team's lineup and contribute immediately Choo's down side is he didn't hit lefties all that well in 2012 (btw, he hit BETTER against LHP's in 2011 than RHP's & overall, he's pretty solid against both arm sided pitchers) and he is on a one year contract with Scott Boras as his agent. CERTAIN teams have no issues with Scott Boras. Those teams almost to a tee are large market and able to resign players who can and do help them win. This limit the Indians to a degree, but it is what it is..

Teams that are close to contention that need a SS or need an OF and have SP talent that is near MLB ready are few and far between. For several weeks now, the Dbax have been discussed and they remain a very good fit. The A's have also been discussed and they too are a pretty darn good fit.. Today..I'd like to add another team to the mix: The Seattle Mariners. While he may not be the most popular choice, there is at least one player that make a LOT of sense for both clubs. The M's have an OF'er they'd love to lose who has a one year deal and a team option for 2014 in Franklyn Gutierrez. Goot can play CF and RF & is superhuman as it relates to defense. Goot is Francona's kind of guy, tbh. The M's also have a desperate need for an impact hitting corner OF'er, an impact leadoff hitter, an impact hitting SS and have a plethora of MiLB SP's who really fit the Indians needs. Hello?.. James Paxton? who else on their farm makes sense?.I could see any number of convolutions that could include guys like Stefen Romero Stephen Prior? Brandon Maurer and or Francisco Martinez.

I completely agree the Tribe won't move ACab unless the deal lands them starting pitching they've pretty well made that known. I think it's a good idea and apparently they've decided he's their most valuable trade piece and they did well to back him up by bringing in Aviles.

I think the Tribe should move CPerez and Choo this offseason and push to move ACab too. I think they should absolutely hold onto Masterson unless they get blown away in a deal ala the Gonzalez & Latos deals. I'll give a quick run down...

Choo - is in his walk yr and won't resign with the Tribe unless they sign a ton of Scott Boras clients for over mkt deals . Seriously, he's as good as gone question is when. The likely get the same return for him now or at the dealline bc there are a number of options on the mkt for OF and teams know he might leave. I think the Pence tr gives us an idea what they could get in return. The Phillies got Joseph-c #3 prospect, Scheirholtz a OF/ PH bench bat and Rosin #18 prospect from the Giants for the AS OF. Choo has better career numbers so a similar deal should be in mind.

ACab - the mkt is clearly thin on SS and the Tribe could easily move Cabrera to a number of teams although the Tribes demands are said to be a front of the line type starter... A young stud top 50 prospect type or young MLB starter like Lance Lynn of the Cards would be idea.

Chris Perez - the Closer mkt is pretty thin and the Tribe has BP depth to use. Perez is set to get a sizable boost in cash and with the depth of the pen and potential replacements for Perez on the team already in the form of Allen and Pestano I think the time is now for the Tribe to maximize their return for Perez.

I'm not of the opinion that the Tribe should be in complete melt down phase right now, although I think they should look to move these three aggressively with the mind of landing two or three solid SP prospects / now talent Ill try to post some realistic and reasonable trade options for the Tribe later...

The "tear it down and reload" part of me wants to see what we can get out of Choo, Perez, etc. That being said, I think the FO is looking to contend, and I think it's unrealistic to expect this team to contend without Choo or Asdrubal. That being said, there's plenty of room to think Choo could have a much better season this year. He was a 2.6 WAR player last year, and he nearly twice as good of a player as recently as 2010. In a contract year, he might get significantly better and help the team win more. Or... if he continues to be mediocre his price will be very limited on the free agent market.

homerawayfromhome wrote:Geronimo Son,Agree the Ms are a team the Tribe has a history of making deals with too but I could see the clubs match up.

The M's appear to be in a quandry. They have the SP candidates in the minors, however, they aren't exactly ready to pitch at the highest levels right now. Perhaps, at the outset of the 2013 season, several will be, however, that's still a long & successful (read: blowing away with talent) spring training away. The following was posted by Rosenthal:

Last week, FOXSports.com baseball guru Ken Rosenthal cited a rival executive as saying that the Seattle Mariners "covet" Kansas City Royals designated hitter Billy Butler (as they are looking for offensive contributors right now). Thomas Holmes of Bleacher Report took it a step further and suggested a five-player swap between the Mariners and Royals: Billy Butler and Wil Myers for Taijuan Walker, Kyle Seagar and Nick Franklin. The biggest issue I have with this deal is that the Royals are desperate for pitchers who can contribute now, not in the future. Walker is certainly a heralded prospect, but he's at least a year away at this point. In addition, Royals general manager Dayton Moore would have to be completely blown away to deal prospect outfielder Myers. This deal just doesn't have that blow-away feel to it.

For the M's, substituting both Shin-soo Choo and Asdrubal Cabrera in this trade scenario makes sense for the M's, however, It's not quite as clearly a win with the return. First, I doubt the M's want to deal Taijuan Walker at all (I know I wouldn't want to deal this guy.. he's really a special talent). James Paxton, on the other hand makes sense. Second, for 3B, Seagar doesn't thrill, probably never will. the M's can keep him. Third, Nick Franklin reminds me a LOT of Jason Donald, so I am not so sure of his future as a ML'er. This is why the Paxton & Gooot (who I believe is poised to play a REAL ML'er in 2013) along with a few other prospects could make sense. Guys like Brandon Maurer who is being touted as being right up there with some of the other M's 'top pitching' prospects (undeserved at this time, imho, but, has the potential to get there). This could be a ploy to hype a prospect to increase his value in the trade market while deflecting attention away from the guys the M's really want to keep like Taijuan Walker & Danny Hultzen & Mike Zunino &, even, Stephan Pryor.

In summary, if a deal with the M's excludes Paxton, no deal. If it includes both Paxton and Maurer, then it's a deal that has to be made. If it's a two (or three with the addition of a pen arm by the Indians) for four or five, then puh-leeeaasseee let the four include Paxton, Maurer, and two of Franklyn Gutierrez, Stefen Romero and Francisco Ramirez.