Somebody fill me in, please. When did Cassandra Nova regain her identity? At the end of Morrisons's "E is for Extinction," not only her memory but her adult faculties appear to be wiped out. She's in a psychic schoolroom. Now, I missed out on X-Men between Morrison and Whedon, but shouldn't we have been told something?

If there is any reality in the X-world, and Whedon is permitted to play things as they would be, Katherine Pryde is going to kill Emma Frost. Good.

"If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all." -- Noam Chomsky

DennisMM wrote:Somebody fill me in, please. When did Cassandra Nova regain her identity? At the end of Morrisons's "E is for Extinction," not only her memory but her adult faculties appear to be wiped out. She's in a psychic schoolroom. Now, I missed out on X-Men between Morrison and Whedon, but shouldn't we have been told something?

If there is any reality in the X-world, and Whedon is permitted to play things as they would be, Katherine Pryde is going to kill Emma Frost. Good.

Dennis, to the best of my knowledge, Nova's reemergence hasn't been explained anywhere yet. I'm assuming that's something that will come at the end of this arc.

And you're SO right about Kitty and Emma. I fucking LOVED that last moment in the issue, the callback to the Phoenix saga. I love that Whedon shows Emma to be torn over what she's doing, and that he also supplies us with Kitty, a figure we can get behind and say, "Right is right and wrong is wrong." Emma's doing the wrong thing, whatever her reasons may be, and for that she needs to be punished.

I realy dig this HC collectibles. Just finished reading the inrcedible Ultimate X-men, Spidy and Ultimates HC issues. Thinking of picking up Astonishing X-men hc's now. Anyone has this issue(s)? How are they? Just as great as the Ultimate releases?

So this week will see the release of Uncanny X-Men #475, which is the beginning of Ed Brubaker's run. I, for one, am really looking forward to this. I have loved everything that Brubaker has brought to the Marvel table thus far and it would be nice to look forward to more than ONE x-book (astonishing x-men being that one book). Anyone else looking forward to reading this?

Does anyone else dislike the name "Kitty"? She's in her early twenties now, at least, based on the timeline formula from JQ's recent Joe Friday column. Hell, she may be be as old as 25 if you accept that different characters sometimes seem to age at different rates. We know she's a college graduate and has worked with British Intelligence (that was Pryde & Wisdom, wasn't it?).

A mature 21-year-old probably would not allow herself to be called Kitty except by close friends. She certainly would not allow herself to be called Kitty by Emma Frost. I'd expect Hank to call her Katherine or Kate, the name she used in "Days of Future Past."

Just my opinion.

Last edited by DennisMM on Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

"If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all." -- Noam Chomsky

DennisMM wrote:Does anyone else dislike the name "Kitty"? She's in her early twenties now, at least, based on the timeline formula from JQ's recent Joe Friday column. Hell, she maybe be as old as 25 if you accept that different characters sometimes seem to age at different rates. We know she's a college graduate and has worked with British Intelligence (that was Pryde & Wisdom, wasn't it?).

A mature 21-year-old probably would not allow herself to be called Kitty except by close friends. She certainly would not allow herself to be called Kitty by Emma Frost. I'd expect Hank to call her Katherine or Kate, the name she used in "Days of Future Past."

Just my opinion.

"Catty" Pryde?

Personally, I'm an atheist in the voting booth and a theist in the movie theatre. I separate the morality of religion with the spirituality and solace of it. There is something boring about atheism.

OK - so I finally got off of my slope ass and invested in The Age of Apocalypse Saga Books 1 & 2. Next month will be books 3&4 and I'm looking forward to it.

So if you don't want to know about the saga, don't read on because spoilers ahoy, I suspect.

Coming in completely cold from a ten year plus exile from any and all X-Universes, I took a little while before Book One sucked me in. It didn't help that it is the more abridged of the opening two volumes, skipping huge chunks of time it seems. The first story, from the chronicles showing the first ever adventure of Magneto's X-Men...I'm guessing its deliberately retro in style, wording, colour and content? Like, in a way mimicing The Uncanny X-Men ish 1? Which is cool and works....but it does mean that the very next story is like a jolt out of the blue, as it goes wayyy forwards and is much more contemporary in inking and such - its the Tales from the Age of Apocalypse story about what happened to Chris Summers. I was never sure about the whole Starjammers thing, in any timeline.....I'd have been more interested, say, in the whole story about Weapon X losing a hand and Cyclops losing an eye - but the Chris Summers thing introduces Factor-X, so that was that I guess.

Book 2 is far more linear and really kicks things off in terms of the corss-overs following on from one another. I love the variations they've come up with for most of the characters - and I fear change (all coins in fact). Dark Beast is cool (though perhaps not so appropriate he still says "Oh my Stars and Garters"???). Nightcrawler is an excellent character anytime anyplace - but X-Calibur really surprised me - I like the faithless angle and teleporting Proudstars finger away? Nasty baby...

Cain Marko as a monk? Can't wait to read more on that one! And I find myself caring just a bit too much about Sinister too. The only heroes I'm not so sure about just yet would be Nate Summers and Gambit....but I remain hopeful.

Lovin' and have high hopes for Angel - apart from when he was Arachangel I can't remember them doing this character so much good service - it suits him, the ass-kissin mercenary who just might yet come good......and then again just might not.

Ummm - is Holocaust the damaged remains of the dude who killed Scarlet Witch? wish I'd seen that fight - who did for him? not sure about the new Wolverine, not yet - a little bit overwritten. Creed rules - wouldn't surprise me if he turns bad again by the end. Less enamoured with the wildcat he has on a chain tho. Good to see the Guthries!!! Looking forward to much more Mystique as well.....

"I think the worst time to have a heart attack is during a game of charades..."

DennisMM wrote:Does anyone else dislike the name "Kitty"? She's in her early twenties now, at least, based on the timeline formula from JQ's recent Joe Friday column. Hell, she maybe be as old as 25 if you accept that different characters sometimes seem to age at different rates. We know she's a college graduate and has worked with British Intelligence (that was Pryde & Wisdom, wasn't it?).

A mature 21-year-old probably would not allow herself to be called Kitty except by close friends. She certainly would not allow herself to be called Kitty by Emma Frost. I'd expect Hank to call her Katherine or Kate, the name she used in "Days of Future Past."

MasterWhedon wrote:And you're SO right about Kitty and Emma. I fucking LOVED that last moment in the issue, the callback to the Phoenix saga. I love that Whedon shows Emma to be torn over what she's doing, and that he also supplies us with Kitty, a figure we can get behind and say, "Right is right and wrong is wrong." Emma's doing the wrong thing, whatever her reasons may be, and for that she needs to be punished.

Ah, but we don't really know what Emma's up to, now do we? Certainly Kitty's going to put some major boot to Hellfire Club ass (you know Whedon can't wait to uncork the ninjitsu, or have the students run riot through the school)...but Emma HAD to have known that the Black Queen's assault was barely going to slow Kitty down. And considering she asked for somebody on the team who could SPECIFICALLY keep an eye on her...that rings alarm bells too.

Also, one has to wonder if that's Scott in the first place. Very little has been able to contain those pesky eyebeams and if I remember correctly, the psychic switch that shuts them off is fried. Not even the professor can do it, and Emma's not in his league.

This comment is in no way meant to insist your opinion is wrong or be considered an edict, solely this poster's opinion. That said, you are still a fool and will kneel before me in supplication.

So I finally picked up Uncanny #475 and was pretty impressed. I don't much care for the team members, save for the weary, powerless Professor X and Warpath, but the issue does a nice enough job of assembling them and hurling them off into their mission.

I thought Brubaker's Deadly Genesis was poorly executed, and I wish it'd been told in Uncanny instead of ending as an unfinished mini-series. That said, I think he's turned it around here with relatively crisp, clean characterizations and some decent structuring. I still don't get all the hoopla over the guy, but he at least does a servicable job.

And color me unimpressed with Billy Tan. There's some really nice stuff in here--that intro of Warpath, for one--but I find the rest incredibly uneven. As a consumate doodler and one-time-would-be-illustrator, I have a very high standard for consistency, and I found this stuff to be all over the place. The layouts for some of his panels, especially in dialogue scenes, felt unfocused.

All told though, I think this is a strong enough start to what I hope will be a quality X-yarn.

I have a lot of faith in Brubaker...his run on Daredevil at the moment is awesome. Plus, his work on Captain America has been great as well. I never thought I would actually look forward to a Captain America book...but Brubaker has made that happen. He has a firm grasp of the Marvel Universe. I have no doubt his run on Uncanny X-Men will be no different.

As for Deadly Genesis...I don't really blame him. The idea was kind of thrust on him kind of late in the game. He did what he could...but that mini-series had a lot of problems...a lot of which were not Brubaker's fault.

I just saw that Marvel is releasing an omnibus for Morrison's New X-Men run. Amazon has it priced at $100 dollars...I have only read the first 5 arcs of Morrison's run...I heard it come of loses steam there for a bit.

Just read Astonishing X-Men's first two graphic novels and (not to steal your thunder LadySheridan... and personally I'm not a fan of Ultimate X-Men. I dig the reinvention part of it, but feel that really it's appealing to an audience younger than my 21 years, and is filled with some real weak stuff)...

Bison: [to his architect] The temple above us was the wonder of the ancient world. Bisonopolis shall be the wonder of my world. But I think the food court should be larger. All the big franchises will want in.

Lady S, I've never really liked Ultimate X-Men. I haven't read the whole run, but I just fundamentally disagreed with a good deal of the reinvention--and the costumes don't help.

My biggest beef is why start your story with a world that's just this side of Days of Future Past? One of the best aspects of X-Men is the impending doom, the war brewing on the horizon. Granted, I think the 616 continuity has never appropriately taken it there, but this is just way too soon for me.

I would've rather seen a slow, Ultimate Spider-Man-like build up of the mutant "threat" and Xavier's assembling of his team/school instead of wham-bang action in issue #1.

I've just read Astonishing 1-12 and it was brilliant. Really really well written... reminded me of the sort of interplay between X-Men form wayyyy back in the day. The combination and chemistry between team members present strikes a great balance - and the artwork ir just soooooo beautiful. there's a whole sequence in #4 that...well, Lady S...I leave it for you to discover yourself.

Forget Ultimates....get to Astonishing as soon as - you won't be disappointed.

"I think the worst time to have a heart attack is during a game of charades..."

But I agree with you, Master. It feels so rushed through important story points...they've already destroyed Genosha in two pages. It just makes it feel all the more slick, like a new audience wouldn't have the attention span to wait for a proper build up.

I wanted to get to this issue:

But I don't think I can--though at least the art seems to improve and Gray loses her piercings.

Plus it sounds like Wolverine's going to bang every girl X-Men. Booooo!

The thing that really bugs me about The Ultimate series is they never really take any chances. It's the same basic storylines/relationships as the originals had.

If they really wanted to do something different in the series (say by offing Mary Jane in Ult Spidey, or having Beast/Jean together in Ult X...) then they'd get a lot more respect, and I think people would genuinely have more of a 'this rocks. What happens next?' connection to it.

Hell... if the fans really didn't take to a real reinvention, just use the old alternate dimension story crux.

Bison: [to his architect] The temple above us was the wonder of the ancient world. Bisonopolis shall be the wonder of my world. But I think the food court should be larger. All the big franchises will want in.

MasterWhedon wrote:SCOTT: Jean, I... I don't know how to--JEAN: Shh... It's okay. I knew you loved me a half a second before you did.

That's some really nice stuff right there.

Its good writing....but it'd freak me the hell out if I was Summers. She can read an incoming emotion as well as your mind? Unsettling

You're for damn straight. And that's a nice aspect they play on, the idea that Professor X could be subtly manipulating them all.

At one point, Iceman comes back from vacation and Xavier reveals that Bobby has told his girlfriend about the X-Men. He then proceeds to mindwipe Bobby and his girlfriend of the informaiton.

That's some messed up shit right there.

But for as much stuff as I might like about Ultimate X-Men, I still don't love it.

I held Ultimate X-Men in one hand and Astonishing in the other this past Saturday. I was trying to blind myself to my bias for all things Joss and decide - but it was the artwork on Rogue that made my decision for me. She looked about 4 in Ultimate!

I love any storyline that throws Prof X into ambiguity (I loved that throwaway line in X3 - "oh what - you think he's not in your head as well?"). When they do that, his arcs are hard to beat. That is some messed up shit with Iceman - definitely. "The Lesser of Two Evils"

On the lighter side - going back to your original example up there between Scott and Jean...here's another angle : sooo like a woman!! He's like, trying to have this moment....trying to find the words...be sensitive....kacking his pants......everything has been leading up to this....will she say yes will she say no.......probably been pacing up and down in his room all night the night before....floor littered with scrumpled up paper bearing half-completed prose.....and she's like "I'm gonna blurt it out for you - you love me, I'm great, I know....now go mow the lawn ruby-pupils"

"I think the worst time to have a heart attack is during a game of charades..."

Doc Holliday wrote:On the lighter side - going back to your original example up there between Scott and Jean...here's another angle : sooo like a woman!! He's like, trying to have this moment....trying to find the words...be sensitive....kacking his pants......everything has been leading up to this....will she say yes will she say no.......probably been pacing up and down in his room all night the night before....floor littered with scrumpled up paper bearing half-completed prose.....and she's like "I'm gonna blurt it out for you - you love me, I'm great, I know....now go mow the lawn ruby-pupils"

You dudes want to be scared? I can't find the reference because I don't have the Marvel Masterpieces volumes, but somewhere in the first year of the original book the Professor moped over his love for Jean that he could never share.

Really. Not kidding.

"If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all." -- Noam Chomsky

DennisMM wrote:You dudes want to be scared? I can't find the reference because I don't have the Marvel Masterpieces volumes, but somewhere in the first year of the original book the Professor moped over his love for Jean that he could never share.

Really. Not kidding.

Y'know, they hinted at that in the Onslaught series back when. Onslaught shows Jean the hidden section of Xavier's mind or something and mentions this to her. She says no way. Of course, when Onslaught turns out to BE Xavier later on, we know it is true, at least in part.

She was only 16. Yikes. Stan Lee has admitted it was one of the dumber things he wrote in those days, and that included calling Spider-Man Peter Palmer, the Hulk Bob Banner and having Cap leap into a battle with the cry (approximately), "Only one of us is going to walk out of this room -- AND IT WON'T BE ME!"

"If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all." -- Noam Chomsky

Chilli wrote:The thing that really bugs me about The Ultimate series is they never really take any chances. It's the same basic storylines/relationships as the originals had.

If they really wanted to do something different in the series (say by offing Mary Jane in Ult Spidey, or having Beast/Jean together in Ult X...) then they'd get a lot more respect, and I think people would genuinely have more of a 'this rocks. What happens next?' connection to it.

Chilli wrote:The thing that really bugs me about The Ultimate series is they never really take any chances. It's the same basic storylines/relationships as the originals had.

If they really wanted to do something different in the series (say by offing Mary Jane in Ult Spidey, or having Beast/Jean together in Ult X...) then they'd get a lot more respect, and I think people would genuinely have more of a 'this rocks. What happens next?' connection to it.

You mean like killing off one of the original X-Men?

Which one and for how long?

Bison: [to his architect] The temple above us was the wonder of the ancient world. Bisonopolis shall be the wonder of my world. But I think the food court should be larger. All the big franchises will want in.

I actually agree with your point, though - the Ultimate universe seemed to play it a little too close to 616, especially in the early days, making the whole thing seem rather pointless.

Not having read Ultimate Spider-Man or X-Men in awhile, I can't say whether this has changed but I do know that The Ultimates have shifted away from previous continuity and I know that Kirkman has expressed a desire to do the same with Ultimate X-Men.

That's cool on the death front. The one thing I feel needs to change in comics is bringing people back from the dead. Sometimes it works, but mostly it's just a complete and utter piss-take of something that was once meaningful.

Bison: [to his architect] The temple above us was the wonder of the ancient world. Bisonopolis shall be the wonder of my world. But I think the food court should be larger. All the big franchises will want in.

Doc Holliday wrote:I love any storyline that throws Prof X into ambiguity (I loved that throwaway line in X3 - "oh what - you think he's not in your head as well?"). When they do that, his arcs are hard to beat. That is some messed up shit with Iceman.

I disagree. Whenever they pull that morally-ambiguous Prof. X ish, it kinda bugs me. Because I'm not really sure what the point is, I think; that's probably part of it. If it were just a brief glimpse at how some hard decisions have to be made due to the quagmire of the mutant struggle, fine. Every so often, it would be a nice character flourish. But whenever it's done, people always make such a big deal out of it. Like, "Next Month, find out about Xavier's scandalous secret! Maybe he's not perfect after all! Maybe he's more like Magneto than he thinks! And what will change as a result of this shocking secret in his past? Eh, nothing really." It's a cheap way of manufacturing drama. Maybe not, I dunno. I just don't see the appeal. Plus I do think it's kinda less effective when overused. And they do it a LOT (especially during Millar's run -- no surprise there, really) in "Ultimate X-Men."

You may well be right Ribbons - I'm returning to the X-Universe after a lay-off of over 7 years...so any line thats been overused, well...you'll probably be seeing me carp on about it here, in about 6 months time.

Of course by then those views will be passe too

I was thinking less the overt stuff though...Prof X has got as many skeletons in his closet as anyone else. I was thinking more along the lines of his abuse of his power on a daily basis..towards his charges...like that Iceman stuff MW mentioned. I like it when something like that just gets dropped in to a story that is principally about something else.

Then, years later some writer ties all those beats together...or works them in a new way.

That early stuff about Jean is more than a little whacked.

ahem....and slightly more shamelessly....if anyone out there is any good with photoshop please PM me.....Toshiro approaches and I have no ability in this area.

Nothing. Nada. Zippo. Nilch.

See? Shameless...

"I think the worst time to have a heart attack is during a game of charades..."

It was... meh. I didn't particularly care for it; frankly the characters felt a bit off, some of the art is wonky (Paquette's Beast looks horrible IMO), and since I've not followed a lot of the recent X-Books aside from Astonishing there are some moments lost on me.

I've got a wait-and-see attitude on it at this point, the last couple of pages show some promise for an interesting story.

It was... meh. I didn't particularly care for it; frankly the characters felt a bit off, some of the art is wonky (Paquette's Beast looks horrible IMO), and since I've not followed a lot of the recent X-Books aside from Astonishing there are some moments lost on me.

I've got a wait-and-see attitude on it at this point, the last couple of pages show some promise for an interesting story.

Yeah, it's all sorts of bad. It's a decent idea (or maybe the low end of decent), but the execution is just horrible.