I just set mine up today and I couldn't be happier with them! Now for the issue at hand: the lugs. Structurally these things are sound. I have not tried to take them apart but from what I can see it does look like the plastic part is there to keep the lug sleeve from slipping out. Not sure, that's just how it looked from up close on the outside. But they are a lot more solid feeling than I had expected.

Here is the deal, if you have an instrument that you gig with and use a lot, it's going to get scuffed. Accidents happen. It doesn't matter what your gear is made out of or how careful you are, it will wear down (although some materials quicker than others).

But let me speak about these lugs as someone for whom the 799.99 I paid for them was a major investment. This is my only set of drums. I have been playing for 18 years and finally have an awesome American made maple drum set (up until recently I have played mostly at places that have their own kits). I saw the plastic on the lugs and didn't think twice about it. Why? Because of the way that the drums were designed. They can be easily replaced. I'm sure that if the time comes when I think, "I can't live with these scuffed lugs any longer!" I will be able to buy replacement lugs. And honestly I bet they will be cheaper to replace than metal lugs (which will also get scuffed up by the way).

Bottom line, if ludwig has to throw plastic on their lugs to get me this kit for that price (even if I had to pay $1000), I am more than happy to put up with some scuffed plastic.

Okay, how about we re-address the lugs 5 years from now after I've used the drums for longer than 6 weeks. I'll continue to be completely up-front and unbiased about them, and will report on how they hold up.

They're out there, they'll be showing up used in the future, we'll all get to see how SIGNET105 weathers the gigging life. Yes, lets re assess the plastic part of the lugs after 5 years.

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It doesn't bother me that you're criticizing a Ludwig product or concept, you're not the first. What does bother me is that you don't thimk I can fairly and accurately assess a product that's in my possession, and which I can actually handle and inspect (to the extent that I am able to disassemble it, ie; the lug.)

Im doing a lot of assuming and guessing, tho based on experience with plastic on lugs. I like the concept, stated that. Criticizing? More like pondering the un foreseen possibilities, which 'may' be ugly, but they also 'may' turn out to be true, since they haven't yet, guess it could be labeled criticizing, but Im OK with that too.

Im certainly not questioning your assessment capabilities, we're eating it up. In post #263 I understood it as you 'could not' get the lug apart, so it must be difficult, a testament to LUDWIG, not a diss on you. I myself was never under the impression that the plastic part of the lug would be easy to get out/apart. Would like to see it out/apart tho, or even a pic of the inside of the lug.

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But let me speak about these lugs as someone for whom the 799.99 I paid for them was a major investment. This is my only set of drums. I have been playing for 18 years and finally have an awesome American made maple drum set (up until recently I have played mostly at places that have their own kits). I saw the plastic on the lugs and didn't think twice about it. Why? Because of the way that the drums were designed.

Exactly what LUDWIG is hoping for... not someone like me who sees them and says: "Plastic on the lugs? Not what I was expecting. Gonna wait on this one, see how they age."

I couldn't wait any longer! I went down to my local GC and ordered a new kit. I did see these at NAMM. I also beat on a set up kit at GC a few weeks ago. So, for me no surprises coming.
I don't think the spur issue will be an issue for me. Nor is the lug issue but I will post my findings regardless if something becomes an issue.

While I'm not a "pro" or a schooled drummer I do get to play often. I've also have had my share of kits up and down the pricing ladder. Sold a bunch, some for being stupid me, some for details I didn't like and some just because I wanted a different flavor....lol.

My use for this kit is simply for a light compact traveling kit. The kick drum (20") is crazy light! Perfect for tossing in the back of wifeys CRV traveling up and down the I5. We do allot of flying but If we don't fly I'm always bringing a small set.

Anywhoo, ordered a 20x15, 12" rack and 14" floor in the Teak finish. 5 days and counting!

If the plastic is good, then it's overall qualities are likely to be at least as good as the pot metal that most mass market lugs are made from, & certainly as good as the often flimsy components used inside most major company cast lugs.

...also, would you have a view on the use (again, from a sonic perspective) of aluminum or brass?...some manufacturers have claimed superior sonic properties from the use of these metals on rims, lugs and other hardware parts...

...also, would you have a view on the use (again, from a sonic perspective) of aluminum or brass?...some manufacturers have claimed superior sonic properties from the use of these metals on rims, lugs and other hardware parts...

...many thanks for your thoughts...

Almost every cast lug body out there is cast from pot metal. I wouldn't say "sonically inferior", more sonically & structurally inconsistent. They are what they are.

As for claims from manufacturers re: the sonic benefits of solid lug forms in brass & aluminium, there's some small validity to that in terms of consistency, but mostly, the sonic performance of a lug is down to mass, footprint, & how/if it stresses the shell. The sonic difference also depends very much on the shell it's attached to.

As for the Signet lugs, I kind of like them. Mass is a bit lower than typical cast body lugs. I certainly applaud the design in terms of how they attach to the shell, & I like the aesthetic too.

Almost every cast lug body out there is cast from pot metal. I wouldn't say "sonically inferior", more sonically & structurally inconsistent. They are what they are.

As for claims from manufacturers re: the sonic benefits of solid lug forms in brass & aluminium, there's some small validity to that in terms of consistency, but mostly, the sonic performance of a lug is down to mass, footprint, & how/if it stresses the shell. The sonic difference also depends very much on the shell it's attached to.

As for the Signet lugs, I kind of like them. Mass is a bit lower than typical cast body lugs. I certainly applaud the design in terms of how they attach to the shell, & I like the aesthetic too.

...thank you for your insight/sharing your vast experience with the wider drumming community...

I picked my kit up yesterday. All boxed up! LOL! I wanted the natural teak, came from GC shipping dist. Center, had it in about 4 days.

Anywhoo, I took a few pics of the lugs and to the best of my abilities I tried to examine the lug and use of the plastic part of the lug. In my humble opinion, the plastic part has absolutely nothing to do with the function of the lug mounting or tuning of the drum. It's sole purpose is to hold the barrel nut or threaded tube into the lug.

Even if the plastic part would fall off or get bumped off (which would be hard to do) it would not affect the lug at all.

In my humble opinion, the plastic part has absolutely nothing to do with the function of the lug mounting or tuning of the drum. It's sole purpose is to hold the barrel nut or threaded tube into the lug.

Even if the plastic part would fall off or get bumped off (which would be hard to do) it would not affect the lug at all.

Thanks for backing me up on that, nobody believed me when I said it! Hopefully you can convince those who say nay.

Thanks for backing me up on that, nobody believed me when I said it! Hopefully you can convince those who say nay.

Bermuda

I believed you.

All the drums I've had, have some kind of plastic/rubber piece used to keep the barrel nut in place.

The only difference is that they're usually on the inside of the lug, where you can't see them, unless you take the lugs off. These ones on the outside of the Signet lugs must be really firmly fixed into place, as a permanent solution.

All the drums I've had, have some kind of plastic/rubber piece used to keep the barrel nut in place.

The only difference is that they're usually on the inside of the lug, where you can't see them, unless you take the lugs off. These ones on the outside of the Signet lugs must be really firmly fixed into place, as a permanent solution.

It's in tight! There is a lip or ridge that locks the plastic piece into the lug. It could be forced out with a small blade screw driver but could possibly get damaged. Best guess....it would pop out with a little pressure and lock back in place. It appears its designed like this incase the barrel nut gets damaged and needing replacement.

It's in tight! There is a lip or ridge that locks the plastic piece into the lug. It could be forced out with a small blade screw driver but could possibly get damaged. Best guess....it would pop out with a little pressure and lock back in place. It appears its designed like this incase the barrel nut gets damaged and needing replacement.

I did try a screwdriver to pry that lip, and it would take a lot of pressure to get it to move. Because I was holding the lug in my hand, I wasn't about to force it. Maybe held in a vise?

In my humble opinion, the plastic part has absolutely nothing to do with the function of the lug mounting or tuning of the drum. It's sole purpose is to hold the barrel nut or threaded tube into the lug.

Even if the plastic part would fall off or get bumped off (which would be hard to do) it would not affect the lug at all.

So if the plastic part has absolutely nothing to do with function/tuning, and even if it fell out it would not effect the lug at all, how does that relate to " It appears its designed like this incase the barrel nut gets damaged and needing replacement."?

Without ever seeing the lug myself in person, I could tell you the plastic piece is integral to the design, LUGWIG wouldn't put it on for aesthetic purposes, my guess would be its a lug nut retainer. So, if it failed, or fell out it'd seem logical the lug nut and its performance would be effected.

Without ever seeing the lug myself in person, I could tell you the plastic piece is integral to the design, LUGWIG wouldn't put it on for aesthetic purposes, my guess would be its a lug nut retainer. So, if it failed, or fell out it'd seem logical the lug nut and its performance would be effected.

As for being integral to the design, yes, it's there to keep the lug nut in place when changing heads. But at all other times, the lug nut is secured by the tension rod. Even without the plastic insert, it is held in place and functions normally (until the rod is unscrewed.)

Judging by the difficulty in removing the plastic piece, it is highly unlikely it could fall out. But I will say again, even if it did fail in some manner, the rod and its receiver would be unaffected during use. No tuning issues, no nothing. It would probably look odd, but that would be the extent of any 'damage'. In that event, I would simply order a new, complete lug, or swap it to a less visible position, such as any of the four lugs on the underside of the kick.

To all the doubters... I've got these lugs in my hands! Please take my word for it when I describe them!!

Ok, the piece that you are talking about is a simple plastic plug that is installed in the lug to aesthetically conceal a hole.
What is so mysterious about it?
Many products have similar concealment plugs.
Your car probably has at least 12 of them. Look closely at your cars door panels and you will probably find a few by the armrest and the interior door latch release.
Some are round and some are square or rectangle in shape. They hide access to fasteners that are necessary to the function of the door.

Even without the plastic insert, it is held in place and functions normally (until the rod is unscrewed.)

Can you explain that please?

We're assuming the lug nut is of traditional design. By what's being said here we assume there could/should be a channel cast in the metal section which would hold the lug nut in place during tuning/tension, or is the plastic piece part of this function?

What we're getting is w/o the plastic piece the lug nut is held in place, but also hearing if there's no tension/rod and plastic piece not in place, the lug nut would fall out.

We're assuming the lug nut is of traditional design. By what's being said here we assume there could/should be a channel cast in the metal section which would hold the lug nut in place during tuning/tension, or is the plastic piece part of this function?

What we're getting is w/o the plastic piece the lug nut is held in place, but also hearing if there's no tension/rod and plastic piece not in place, the lug nut would fall out.

les, it appears that the lug slips into the lug casing through the side hole and the plastic plug is then inserted to hide the access port.

Ok, the piece that you are talking about is a simple plastic plug that is installed in the lug to aesthetically conceal a hole.

The claim is the plastic piece 'is not' purely aesthetic, its functional, holding in the lug nut, but we're also hearing that without it, the lug nut will still function unless there's no tension/rod, then lug nut will fall out.

The claim is the plastic piece 'is not' purely aesthetic, its functional, holding in the lug nut, but we're also hearing that without it, the lug nut will still function unless there's no tension/rod, then lug nut will fall out.

The lug nut would only fall out if you removed the plastic plug and the tension rod from the lug casing.
The shoulder tube of the plastic plug will hold the lug nut in place.

[quote=bobdadruma;1243716]The lug nut would only fall out if you removed the plastic plug and the tension rod from the lug casing.
The shoulder tube of the plastic plug will hold the lug nut in place.[/QUOTEesthetic

So its not just aesthetic, it holds the lug nut in place.

Tho we're hearing that without the plastic piece, the rod/tuning/function would not be effected.

We're then to assume the lug nut jams up against the metal casing of the lug when tension is applied, or in the case of a proper design there's a channel in the metal part of the lug that secures the lug nut during tuning.

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It's sole purpose is to hold the barrel nut or threaded tube (lug nut) into the lug.

Or as Harvestdrum sez: "It appears its designed like this incase the barrel nut gets damaged and needing replacement."

So an access hole to the lug nut on the outside, the back (shell side) of the lug from the pic shows the lug nut is not acessible from the back, the plastic part is basically a 'lug nut access hole cover' is what were getting its 'function' is.

We're assuming the lug nut is of traditional design. By what's being said here we assume there could/should be a channel cast in the metal section which would hold the lug nut in place during tuning/tension, or is the plastic piece part of this function?

Correct - the plastic piece has nothing to do with the lug nut when the rod is in use.

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What we're getting is w/o the plastic piece the lug nut is held in place, but also hearing if there's no tension/rod and plastic piece not in place, the lug nut would fall out.

Correct - the plastic piece has nothing to do with the lug nut when the rod is in use. When the rod is unscrewed to change the head, IF the plastic piece was not there, I would assume the nut could fall out. I see no likelihood of the plastic piece falling out on its own, even with determined coaxing from me, it would not budge.

So if the plastic part has absolutely nothing to do with function/tuning, and even if it fell out it would not effect the lug at all, how does that relate to " It appears its designed like this incase the barrel nut gets damaged and needing replacement."?

Without ever seeing the lug myself in person, I could tell you the plastic piece is integral to the design, LUGWIG wouldn't put it on for aesthetic purposes, my guess would be its a lug nut retainer. So, if it failed, or fell out it'd seem logical the lug nut and its performance would be effected.

If any of the drums were set up, tuned and ready to play and for some unknown reason the black plastic insert came out, the tuning would not be affected.

Now, no heads or no tension rods screwed into the barrel nuts and the plastic insert came out then the barrel nut could fall out.

I'm guessing that if one were too mess up a barrel nut, maybe stripped threads or crushed so that a tension rod could no longer be threaded in one could replace the barrel nut. This is what I was referring to when I said it was designed for below.

The barrel nut can not spin in side the lug and the plastic piece has nothing to do with this.

Now lets all bother him about some other minute feature of this new kit ad nauseum. Those tension rode look prone to failure. I think the stickers on your guy's upright bass may be affecting his tone John.

Tho we're hearing that without the plastic piece, the rod/tuning/function would not be effected.

Correct, and correct.

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We're then to assume the lug nut jams up against the metal casing of the lug when tension is applied, or in the case of a proper design there's a channel in the metal part of the lug that secures the lug nut during tuning.

No assumption, that's exactly what it does, as with every other swivel-nut lug I know of.

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Or as Harvestdrum sez: "It appears its designed like this incase the barrel nut gets damaged and needing replacement."

If the plastic piece can be removed, then yes. I guess if the nut was damaged, that would be a suitable incentive to force the plastic piece out. But rather than buy a nut, order a replacement plastic piece, and run the risk of injury to hands, I'd just order an entire lug.

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So an access hole to the lug nut on the outside, the back (shell side) of the lug from the pic shows the lug nut is not acessible from the back, the plastic part is basically a 'lug nut access hole cover' is what were getting its 'function' is.

Well, that's partially correct. It does provide access to the nut, but it also serves to hold it in place.

It appears from the pic in post #291 the design is access to the lug nut from the front. It also appears there's no way the lug nut will fit through the hole in the back, they needed to keep that hole small for structural reasons since the lug is being supported by the lip on its end when in the shell.

So that would clear this up: Even if the plastic part would fall off or get bumped off (which would be hard to do) it would not affect the lug at all.

As mentioned if the tension rod was removed and the plastic piece was out, the lug nut would fall out. It easy then to assume the plastic piece also functions as a lug nut holder. That being so, you'd probably have to have a tension rod inserted into the lug nut and manipulate the nut to remove the plastic piece, dislodge the lug nut from that plastic piece... and that could be the reason for the hole in back. It'd be best to attempt this while the lug is on the drum.

Ok guys I ordered the "Giga Beat" kit in natural teak and I received it today. I think Bermuda has done a great job at clearing things up for people but I want to take some of the heat off of him here. I live in my apartment so I really haven't got to play these drums yet. even though before my neighbors come home I did get the bass drum tuned in and as far as I can tell it sounds Killer. But right now I want to talk about build quality Pluses and Minuses.

Lets start with the actual shells. I did the full inspection on these bad boys. I checked the edges which are very smooth and even. And the shells are very much so in round. I have played held and serviced Classic maples and I must say that these shells are much light due to the fact that they are super thin they do have a little bit of give to them but not an alarming amount due to this I have noticed that they are very resonant. and giving the the "DW" style tap test the shells themselves have a very pronounced tone to them when you give them a tap. Also going back to the edges there was no filler that I could see in the bearing edges which I understand happens a lot and it might happen on some of the drums made for this line but mine are filler free.

On my holes there was blowout but I will get more into that later. The finish on the shells is very dull but really is quite nice in person even from a distance. I wish more companies would offer this "green" finish as an option. I am not an environmental nut but I appreciate the step to make this world greener. The finish is kind of rough but I am personally ok with it even though I prefer a super smooth finish.

Now lets get to the lugs. These little guys are solid, and the black plastic caps are much smaller than they look in person. Also everything that Bermuda has been said about the plastic cap is true. The function of the black cap is very minimal and as far as i can tell the lugs would be functional without them.

Other Hardware - I love the bass drum claws these claws are the most solid claws I have ever had on a drum set. They are cast and very heavy duty but are nice and small and fit the rim perfectly like a glove The Tension rods and rims are standard, and the floor tom legs and the triad mounts are very solid. I want to check out these mounts more later but as of now I don't have an opinion other than they are solid as are the floor tom legs.

Now for my biggest beef The bass drum spurs. Honestly I like the build quality and even though I don't like that they elevate the front of the bass drum it doesn't really bother me that much. The problem I have is that when I fold them up the spur ends wont close up all the way because they rest on the bass drum rim. I will take a picture of this later. It is very small but for some reason It really makes me mad (oh well I will get over it)

Assembly:

I spent 3 hours putting this kit together far from the 20 minutes they say but to be fair I did go over each drum for a long time. Also they were so well packed that it almost took me 30 minutes to take them out of the boxes and get everything organized. These lugs are a tight fit at first I thought I was going to crack the drum trying to shove it in (insert joke). I actually like that it is like this it means it will not fall out however this is were a very slight problem arose I pushed one in at a wrong angle and got slight blowout on the inside of the shell. I hope this clears up why this is happening. Its not a big problem and it wont be a problem at all if you pay attention to what you are doing. Like I said it was a very small amount of blowout and it does not bother me. I have never owned a drum set without a little bit of blowout.

putting on the heads. it wasn't until the last drum head that I really figured out how to get the lugs and rods lined up easily because the lugs do move from side to side. No that I have it down I see no added time in changing drum heads however at first it did take a few extra seconds per lug.

Overall even though I have been sold on these since I played them a few weeks ago at Guitar Center I was honestly surprised by the build quality. I would not call these a cheaper alternative to a classic maple or something comparable these are really their own thing. They sound different, and they look different. But they have a high quality sound, and in my opinions they have a quality look to them. I do believe that they are a little gimmicky but for some reason I chose them over drums more than twice there price. They spoke to me and they might to you as well. If you are wanting to buy a new kit do yourself a favor and go check them out. You might come to the same conclusion that I did. But even if you don't, you owe it to yourself to go and try out as many drums as you can because that is the only way to know what you really want.

Even though though all of these drums sounded great the Signets really did it for me.

I hope you enjoyed this rant. If punctuation is off I apologize I have had very little sleep. If any of you have any more questions about them please let me know. I will continue to update my views on them as I spend more time with them, and when I am done with that I will get back to you in 5 years.

Thanks for the overview, you definitely got into them more than I did! Then again, my drums were already assembled. :)

And yes, I know what you mean about the kick spurs resting on the head-rim/hoop. I suspect it has a bit to do with the shells being a little undersized. Not really a problem, but I did notice it when 'stowing' them for the first time.