It means: wow, that's amazing that an AFC came from a 5 generation pedigree with no titles whatsoever. That's amazing. WTH means what the heck, as in: that's surprising! I do see, however that there are some well titled and famous dogs in that pedigree further back.

10-31-2013, 12:32 PM

Hunt'EmUp

I really don't see the big deal or surprise with this. Probably more dogs than You can count got those titles out of untitled parents; probably most peoples first dog; that they decided to throw into a field trial; and they did well, which is why they stuck with it. Now their second dog probably came from more of a pedigree; but I'd hazard to say that this was mostly due to the fact that they were now in the FT game; and when it came time to get a 2nd dog; they knew they'd been lucky with that first dog, they knew the field and they wanted to stack the deck a bit. Talent hides; it's more consistent in dog that are actually doing the work. But all these dogs are labs; they all come from a foundation stock; you trace it fur enough back, all the pedigrees mesh, and everybody came out of field and show champion dogs; its how the breed was developed. They are labs we haven't added in anything new into the foundation stock; since before Labrador was recognized as a breed; thus all that potential is hidden in the genes; even in untitled-untested lines and could very well pop-up anywhere. Population wise there are way more untested labs-untitled "pets"; than tested FT labs. So yes; odds dictate that the Best ever FT Lab was or is probably on someones couch and will never retrieve a bird. Of course the odds of you finding that one particular dog, training and running it; are very very small. So why wouldn't one stack the odds; by buying a dog out of proven lines.

10-31-2013, 01:44 PM

Jennifer Henion

It's not a surprise if the parents aren't well titled, but for there to be zero titles of any kind for 4 or 5 gens is pretty interesting. We're talking about an AFC title out of no titles.

10-31-2013, 01:49 PM

BonMallari

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jennifer Henion

It's not a surprise if the parents aren't well titled, but for there to be zero titles of any kind for 4 or 5 gens is pretty interesting. We're talking about an AFC title out of no titles.

Gee; How about the FACT that Jim Pickering is one heck of a dog trainer/handler, and maybe the bloodline gave him more to work with than what was on paper and he maximized what he had to work with

10-31-2013, 02:12 PM

Criquetpas

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hunt'EmUp

I really don't see the big deal or surprise with this. Probably more dogs than You can count got those titles out of untitled parents; probably most peoples first dog; that they decided to throw into a field trial; and they did well, which is why they stuck with it. Now their second dog probably came from more of a pedigree; but I'd hazard to say that this was mostly due to the fact that they were now in the FT game; and when it came time to get a 2nd dog; they knew they'd been lucky with that first dog, they knew the field and they wanted to stack the deck a bit. Talent hides; it's more consistent in dog that are actually doing the work. But all these dogs are labs; they all come from a foundation stock; you trace it fur enough back, all the pedigrees mesh, and everybody came out of field and show champion dogs; its how the breed was developed. They are labs we haven't added in anything new into the foundation stock; since before Labrador was recognized as a breed; thus all that potential is hidden in the genes; even in untitled-untested lines and could very well pop-up anywhere. Population wise there are way more untested labs-untitled "pets"; than tested FT labs. So yes; odds dictate that the Best ever FT Lab was or is probably on someones couch and will never retrieve a bird. Of course the odds of you finding that one particular lab, training and running it; are very very small. So why wouldn't one stack the odds; by buying a dog out of proven lines.

I have to agree with this. In the Goldens check back to a dog called Poika of Handjem that appears if you go back far enough in most of the non-BARTY pedigrees, non titled hunting dog type, yes owned by the father of Mike Lardy, Dr. Henry Lardy. Also, Ben , you have to do some work, don't believe there is much of a pedigree there but very selective breedings with good genes including the National Derby Champion he sired, hint it wasn't "Cotton" . (FC/AFC Ben and National Derby Champion Ben's Enchanted Budswiser) both own/bred by Darrel and V Frisbie. The Labs have more genetics behind them . There have been more titled FC/AFC Lab bitches too in the last 30 years so the dogs from these bitches un field trial titled have produced some nice dogs. It isn't all the males! Also, in my opinion the so-called "lesser nuggets" hunt tests titles have had a dramatic impact on the breedings. No longer do the old time field trialers openly talk about special Olympics when it comes to hunt tests! A term used not with endearment 15 or 20 years ago. My thoughts on it.

10-31-2013, 03:49 PM

Hunt'EmUp

Quote:

Originally Posted by BonMallari

Gee; How about the FACT that Jim Pickering is one heck of a dog trainer/handler, and maybe the bloodline gave him more to work with than what was on paper and he maximized what he had to work with

Maybe he was just the first to say; Hey this dogs pretty good; just as good as others; Heck why don't I throw him into a trial, see what happens. Addiction takes hold, the dog does well, and now you have a proven dog, He's even a Golden ;). You breed him, a few generations (keep playing- some of them do well), and now you've got a proven blood-line ;).

10-31-2013, 05:48 PM

Mike W.

FC Dogwood's Fear Factor "Boo"

10-31-2013, 06:16 PM

Ted Shih

I have had two wonderful dogs - litter mates - who were born of untitled parents

- FC/AFC Freeridin Wowie Zowie
- FC/AFC Sky Hy Husker

That being said, when I go searching for puppies, I do not look for untitled parents. Others may believe that the best dog around is sitting on someone's couch, but I don't

Ted

10-31-2013, 07:14 PM

alynn

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jennifer Henion

It's not a surprise if the parents aren't well titled, but for there to be zero titles of any kind for 4 or 5 gens is pretty interesting. We're talking about an AFC title out of no titles.

I don't know if Jim is here anymore, but I knew him when he started with Jake. That dog was his first dog. So yes, Jim is good. And there was something in that pedigree.

10-31-2013, 07:36 PM

Jennifer Henion

Quote:

Originally Posted by alynn

I don't know if Jim is here anymore, but I knew him when he started with Jake. That dog was his first dog. So yes, Jim is good. And there was something in that pedigree.

That is neat and inspiring!

P.S. I love your dog names! Trill of a lifetime: Dax really caught my eye and I knew off the bat, then saw the others and had a good laugh!