Arguing that he did not want to "erode the independence and flexibility" of charter schools, Gov. Jerry Brown last weekend vetoed legislation that would have required charters to provide low-income students free or reduced-price meals....

"Access to these meals is a pretty basic, essential resource that all students should be able to receive. … We never saw it as tied into the politics of charter schools or their educational autonomy," said Alexis Fernandez, a nutrition policy advocate at California Food Policy Advocates, which sponsored the legislation....

A similar proportion of California students are eligible for free or reduced-price meals in both charter and traditional public schools – about 56 percent and 57 percent, respectively. But charter schools, which enrolled more than 412,000 students last year, are exempt from a state law that requires public schools to provide low-income students with a meal meeting federal nutrition standards each school day....

The 2010 audit surveyed 213 charter schools that were identified in state data as offering classroom-based instruction but not participating in federal meal programs. Of the 133 schools that responded, 41 said they did in fact participate in the programs. Forty-six said they offered alternative meal programs with a range of costs, and 39 said they did not provide meals mainly because they lacked resources such as funding, staff, a kitchen or a cafeteria. The remaining seven do not provide meals because their students receive instruction outside the classroom or their students are 18 or older and are not eligible to participate in the programs.

The SOB is actually taking food out of kids' mouths! If he had an (R) after his name, half of DU would be calling for his head on a pike!

7. look around

see how many of those student spend their lunch time in the library or on the playground or just in the hallway because they don't have any food to eat. There are thousands of children in this country who depend on school breakfasts and lunches for most of their daily nutrition.

64. yeah, none of the charter schools DUers support are like that, apparently. they're all wonderful

places, welcoming and open to all students, getting great results with the poorest of the poor, minorities, disabled, special ed and esl. and they're all non-profit and never counsel out students and never pre-select students through use of admissions tests and applications.

71. Well maybe some are that wonderful.

Seriously. And there are high achieving regular public schools in my city that "counsel out" "problem" children too. The one in my neighborhood simply holds back any kid that is in serious danger of failing the EOGs. Many of the parents I know simply pull the kid out when this happens. So problem solved for the school! I don't completely blame them. They are under hideous pressure to make their numbers on the standardized testing. But this is a problem in "real" public schools too.

87. a charter does *not* have to accept all students from its district, nor does it have to follow the

90. True, the rules are a bit different.

Lunches, as have been mentioned. There is more flexibility with school calendars, but still rules about it. But they are not supposed to discriminate based on race, income or LDs, just like a regular public.

Magnets don't accept every student in a district either. There is a lottery. There can also be much behind the scenes maneuvering to get a spot after the initial lottery has taken place. Are magnets suspect and undermining of all that is good and holy about our public education system as well?

23. Speaking of 'simple-minded,' none so blind as those with eyes who will not see. Jeesh - n/t

29. My kids goes to a Title 1 charter school.

We do not provide free lunch. We also do not provide bussing. We are not for profit either. A lunch program is very expensive and requires special equipment that is beyond the capacity of most charter schools to provide. In NC, charters receive the same per pupil funding from the state, but we are not provided a building for free like the regular public schools get. So we don't have the facility to safely prepare hot lunch.

Parents donate snacks in my son's classroom. If we had widespread problems with hungry children, it would be addressed. But as you mention, seems like most parents manage send a lunch, despite the fact that we are a high poverty school.

46. If you can not provide the same standards that the public schools MUST

50. Whatever.

The regular public was seriously not working for my kids. I will not sacrifice their wellbeing just to live up to your high educational standards which seem to have nothing to do with actual education.

52. You must meet the same standards that the public schools must if you are to

receive public monies. Your school could work out with the public system to provide you with kunches and of course charge the appropriate fees for doing so or the funds that your school recieves should be docked for not providing full school requirements.

Public schools are trashed by ever moving standards and used as excuses to demand charter schools who then do not have to follow the same standards.

58. But they *don't* have to meet the same standards to receive federal money. That's the point.

To name just two things that affect educational quality, they *don't* have to cap their class sizes as regular schools do, and they don't have to have the percent certified teachers regular schools do.

They also don't have to provide food, transportation, same number of instructional days, retirement & health benefits, etc, or follow the pay scale the districts do.

57. It's actually pretty astonishing what NC charters don't have to do. Don't have to do lunches,

transportation, class size caps; don't have to follow % of teacher certification requirements or district salary schedule; don't have to participate in retirement and medical programs; don't have to follow the instructional days requirement.

And they get about the same funding as regular schools.

Highlights of the NC Public School Budget - Public Schools of North ...
www.ncpublicschools.org/docs/fbs/resources/.../2012highlights.pdf

The list of things they *do* have to do is interesting too. For example, they *do* have to allow for-profit educational service providers and make their boards autonomous.

53. No lunches and no transportation are what keeps many people without means from applying

56. Schools that provide lunches are reimbursed. And as initially, the only charter authorizers in NC

were school districts, it seems odd that they wouldn't have been able to use district properties. Certainly charters in other states do. In fact, some charters have gained ownership of public properties.

69. I have heard about other states that work like that.

I read something about an NYC public schools being required to give up their libraries so charters will have room? A friend of mine in CA mentioned that her local public school was getting squeezed by a charter for building space. But not in NC. We get the per pupil reimbursement, but no funding for renting or buying a building. The charter school must make that up through fundraising and grants. Which you could argue also benefits more affluent student bodies since they are capable of raising more money internally. It is certainly an issue for out little school that is 45% low income with a fairly dysfunctional BOD. But we soldier on, and like I said elsewhere in this thread, it has been a good fit for my son. The educational philosophy works for my visual/spatial learner much better than what they are doing in the mainstream publics.

On the other hand, you could also argue that the lack of funding for a building discourages the for-profits (I am opposed to those too), and only really motivated parents and educators find a way to get a new school going.

Whatever. Seems like many on this board hate charters with a broad brush and refuse to see that it is a complicated issue.

83. Nope.

Many charter schools exist to provide alternatives to regular schools for divergent learners. My kids are both very divergent. Our neighborhood school does not have a clue about how to educate them, nor do they want to figure it out. If the regular public education is working for the bulk of kids there, good on them. Many of my neighbors send their kids there and it seems like they are happy with the school. No one at my kid's charter is looking to destroy anything, just trying to find answers that work for our kids. You are painting with a very broad brush.

89. I never said any of that.

All I said is that some charter schools work well for some kids, mine for instance, and that we are not all intent on the total destruction of the public system. In fact, many of see ourselves as adjunct to the regular public schools.

The public school teacher at my daughter's school *told* me to put her in her current charter school if we could get a spot because they were not well suited to providing what she needed. Not that they were not willing to try, but that it would be easier for everyone if she could go somewhere smaller that was designed specifically with kids like her in mind.

30. He would be welcome at my son's charter school.

I sent him there because the regular public school was not a good fit. Lots of spectrum-y and ADHD kids at this particular charter. My ADHD/dyslexic/gifted boy has done amazingly well there. We are not for profit, diverse and welcoming to all children.

42. I have to admit it would be nice

to find a good private school for my son. The special education system is too rigid in the public school system. They switched him from LRC2(has more support) to LRC1(has less support). His whole sixth grade, he struggled so much he came home crying and asking if he could skip school. When asked if he could be put back into LRC2 we were told his IQ was too high. And the class sizes are too large. I thought special education classes are suppose to be smaller than general education classes.

43. I was able to convince them to give DS an IEP

based on the difference between his IQ and his achievement. Reading achievement was (then) low average but his IQ scores were so much higher, I was able to convince them that it was painful to him to have such a big gulf between what he understood and what he could do. His math has always been way off the charts, so at the same time the reading/writing IEP was going on, he got a two year skip for math. I am certain that this would not have happened at a regular public. He would either be learning disabled OR gifted, but it would bend their minds too much to try to see both in the same child. As a reward for the school's flexibility, he is 99% in the standardized tests across the board last year, so he gave them a good bump for their NCLB end of year scores (which are admittedly mediocre overall). And, what is really important, he is happy and engaged.

This year I am on the BOD of the charter school. I want to help people see how much better this flexible ability grouping and focus on the individual child can be so maybe we can get some of the policies we use adopted by the wider public school community. IMO, this is how charter schools are supposed to be. Not for profit, ever. Started by parents and educators with ideas and goals that can't be accomplished in the more rigid public system and then taking what is successful and applying it to the larger community. And as you and I know, not all kids are the same. It makes sense that some would thrive where others would fail. Charters can be a way to provide that opportunity for divergent learners.

85. My mom had to fight to get help for me when I was in public school

as I was diagnosed with a learning disability (which is I do understand way less severe). From 4-8th grade I was in some special ed classes, but mostly regular classes phasing out toward the 8th grade. In HS I only had a study hall class. My poor special ed teacher was so used to helping the kids who had severe problems when I came in with high level math books she had to start studying again.

92. Glad you made it through and did so well for yourself.

I have mostly undiagnosed LDs. School was pure hell. Everything was either too easy and I was bored to death or impossible and I couldn't do it at all. After awhile I mostly shut down and tried to participate as little as possible. I got sent to the remedial classes in some cases. Imagine my guidance counselor's surprise when I turned in perfect verbal SATs! I thought there was something profoundly wrong with me, but watching my kids, I realized that the school system just isn't set up for all kids, particularly the ones with a profile of strong strengths combined with serious weakness. So I went looking for alternatives. I have done pretty well with some charter school options. Contrary to popular opinion here on DU, we are not all Satan capitalists looking to roast the public education system on the altar of Mammon. Many of us are parents completely at our wits end looking for something that works for our quirky kids who are not succeeding in the neighborhood public school. Oh well.....

Here is and interesting article about people with LDs who have gone on to very successful careers. Good luck with your doctorate!

39. I have read your posts, and I have a question...

you are entitled to your opinion and I love to hear people's opinions...

however, are any of them any Democrat view opinions? Because in the last 24 hours, I have not read one that is.

again, your right to any opinion whatsoever, but I just don't get your answers, in context with this site.

I would suggest you read a history of Jerry Brown and thank God or whomever one thanks, that Jerry defeated Meg Whitman last year to come back to the Governor position.

And its still a damn shame that the racism in America stopped Jerry from being President.
The uproar when he suggested he would pick Jesse Jackson (whom I voted for twice in the NY primary for President) for Vice President derailed his campaign.

A damn shame.

Because Jerry for 6 decades in public life, has been just about the single greatest person to call themselves a politician, after Teddy Kennedy.
And one should review ALL their positions from day one.

And may I add, I would get rid of charter schools and I would get rid of ALL private schools.
Make everyone go to ONE school.
We are a nation that should be of ONE.
One for all.

Jerry Brown forever. In my lifetime there has never been anyone after Teddy who did more good for more years since the fabulously great LBJ died.(who put the actually doing into those things JFK dreamed of but did not achieve.)

73. Jerry Brown sleeps very well at night. Not a disingenous bone in his beautiful body

very few pure at heart good people left alive in politics
Jerry, Barack, and Hillary, Deval, Bob Graham(Fl.) and wish he were still NJ Gov. James Florio.

"anybody here seen my old friend Allard & JVL.
Can you tell me where they've gone"

I have a feeling, proudtobeblueinrhody that your idea of an idealist is a sore loser that took their ball and left the playing field (like pouter Bill Bradley who could have been NJ Governor but he was still so whiny over his feeble failed attempt at Presidency and now new lobbyist and millionaire Russ Ima Loser Feingold.)
when Jerry Brown left the governorship, did he retire to a life of billions/NO.
He continued in public service in lesser positions and continued to SERVE the public without much fanfare. A true populist.

You gotta win it to be in it.
because a winner does what a loser won't.
and 10% of something is better than 100% of nothing.
And read my signature quote from President Lincoln.

and btw- why do people so fondly love Bobby and JFK?

Because they both never got around to having to actually have a long record of serving and doing something to attempt to achieve the dreams.
Because they became immortal, but left it to mere mortals to actually toil and labor and do the work to achieve mere ideas.

Without Lyndon Baines Johnson, nothing good that happened since the rightwing Truman, dropper of the bomb, and the draconian screwball Eisenhower(starter of Vietnam btw) ever would have been achieved in Washington DC. JFK may have dreamed, but LBJ did it.

People who give of themselves their entire life (like Teddy Kennedy too) of course have a thingydingy on the down side to go along with 99% good and then have whiners attempt to undo all the good, to yap about the 1% they don't like.

It's easy to dream of things that aren't and say why not, when you don't have to actually work to get that dream.

But of course, being immortal is the ultimate sacrifice for the country.
(meaning Bobby is beloved by most on both sides, and people forget that he wiretapped
Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. (they blamed Hoover, however, it was Bobby that actually achieved that.)

And people idiolize, say, Al Gore, yet forget that Al Gore was the one that in effect, introduced Willie Horton to the public, which as I am sure you remember, was what took
a great person and pure person like Mike Dukakis out from being President thanks to Al's memories being picked up by Karl Rove idol Lee Atwater.(who at the very end found God and repented his sins).

so, if one wants to be holier than thou, well, they either have no paper trail or were taken from us and because of that no one remembers anything of them but fondly rose colored glasses.

I would know say, Sandy Dey O'Connor twists and turns every night after her ruling on Bush/Gore (directly caused by Ralph Traitor Nader), because Sandy D. said a year or so later that now she sleeps well.

And with shouldhavebeen President Brown, he like David Lynch are much content in his life.

Sorry there are so many Jerry Brown and Jesse Jackson haters here. (Same as some who shockingly revealed they hated Rev. Al Sharpton).
And after the debate, sorry so many democrats hate democrats bashing our President (2009-2017)Barack Obama.

and it's amazing someone called shouldhavebeen President a libertarian? (wtf is up with that.)
Reminds me of all those that call Obama a commie pinko socialist Kenyan Muslim with a Christian Rev. Wright.

17. Those that are not for profit are eligible for federal lunch program funds.

I find the privatization of our educational system repugnant. I resist the notion that for-profit institutions should be subsidized by my tax dollars in any form. In my opinion, once free lunches are mandated, subsidies are sure to follow, and I'm just not on board with that.

19. werd.

18. I used to highly support charters schools.

This is making me rethink that. Charter schools are still public schools. This doesn't make a lot of sense. Democratic values are supposed to be about helping the poor. Governor Brown isn't being a good democrat.

20. Very easy solution. Go back to public school and free lunches for those in need.

The plutocracy is trying to dismantle public schools by funneling public dollars into private pockets. Subsidizing lunches for charter school students assists them in their underhandedness.

If there are kids going hungry at lunch time in charters, there is an option available to them. Perhaps not the option you desire, but a viable one nonetheless.

Edited to add:

If the plutocrats have their way, one day there will be no more public schools. Just how many free lunches do you think they'll be serving the proles at Koch Brothers Private Charter Schools? The sooner we wake up to the real purpose of so-called education reform the sooner we can get the crooks and thieves out for good.

22. The problem comes from many charter schools that are basically storefronts or in a few offices -

More than half those in the above survey probably did not have the facilities to provide more than a coffee room cubby with Costco Snacks, a mini-fridge, and a microwave, let alone real lab facilities for science classes or a grassy area for P.E.. Quite a few charter schools are based on "flexible learning", where the child only comes in for a scheduled 4 to 8 hours a week for administration, "personalized" instruction, and testing; and are sent home to complete up the majority of their learning as homework and or online access and "online tutoring" if they had questions. Children are not at such facilities long enough to justify providing a regular cafeteria that would be subject to Health Code compliance, so they usually only have access to little more than a few vending machines, a local taqueria or convenience store, or perhaps an itinerant food truck that would also be there over lunch for the other tenants of the commercial building the school is located in.

I speak from experience - the kidlet went to one of those as an alternative to the regular HS where she was having trouble - we were "encouraged" to let her transfer to a major "non-profit" California Charter School corporation based out of Northern California that had five "campuses" in the city of San Diego alone and another two/three throughout the county. She went twice a week on average weeks for a total of six hours; there was usually no more than 20 students there at any one time, and only three or four were there exactly the same amount of time she was. They had a deal with a nearby CC to use their lab facilities for the science classes and their field and Gym for P.E., so there were always some students off at that CC during those classes instead being at the collection of office suites the "campus" was located in during the month those classes were "held". This particular campus had around 300 or so independent study students from grades 6 - 12 attending for the two years she attended.

The issues I can see with the Charter situation is that if the charter schools 1) structured around a standard full-time school day instead of structured as flexible learning and 2) are co-located at a school, church, or other facility that has a proper food preparation area, the cost of providing the state-mandated meals do not significantly exceed their operating costs; they are already "renting" these facilities or leveraging the costs associated with them, and really have no reason to already be providing the meals as required.

The problems comes about when the charter school is set up in a commercial leased facility - the primary cost-saving measure that many local school districts actually see as the "upside" of the charter school system.
With the fixed cost per student and no additional overhead that most charter school get, many charter school corporate systems can successfully point out that they are not getting the proper "funding" to be able to provide not only the mandated meals and a separate place to eat them at, but the additional certified food-preparation facility and staff to provide the meals and the maintenance of that facility.
It is easy for such corporations to make the case that because most of the funding they receive is only based off the scope of providing the mandated education under a commercial lease rather than at an established public education facility, they could not possibly re-negotiate enough funding per student they are currently getting from the school districts to also provide the proper commercial kitchen and staff to feed the children - especially if they are independent study charters and can claim they do not have enough full-time students on site at any one time to warrant providing a regular kitchen facility. Their argument would be that it is not economically feasible to maintain the facilities to regularly provide meals if they don't have more than ten or so students scheduled during "meal times"; that there may be days that twenty-five or thirty students are schedule with only one or two that may qualify for meals, and there may be days that they have no students scheduled.

Whether or not you approve of Charter Schools, this is a logistics issue as well as a mandate issue. There are ways that legislation can provide Charters with options and alternatives to be able to provide children who qualify for federal and state meal programs meals - such as creating a state program that matches a public school or college/university cafeteria or other facilities with commercial kitchens to provide regular free meal deliveries to the facility by subscription, or coupons/vouchers (yes, it's normally an evil word in government programs, but it could work here) for a "healthy meal deal" - breakfast or lunch provided by nearby diner or resturant for select students.
But it cannot simply be an open-ended mandate leaving the charter to figure out what it needs to do and then try to pitch it to recalcitrant, penny-pinching school districts that see the charter school system as a way to save facilities and overhead costs. Once you get local school district politics and corporate money involved, the needs of the individual student will always take second seat to the overall cost - edited to add unless you can provide them with an option that can "fix the problem" without requiring extra effort, studies, and commissions to figure out how you can meet the mandate.
It needs to be a "these are your meal-provision options" rather than "you have to provide a meal", though. That's the quickest, best way to be able to provide meals to the children who are food-insecure.

36. At least one charter chain, Imagine, is basically built around a real-estate scam

it has a real estate subsidiary. So Imagine gets the charter contract, then leases space from Imagine Real Estate on outrageously favorable terms to the shell company. Then Imagine comes back to the school board and pleads poverty.

26. Jerry Brown forever

this reminds me of teaparty people who won't pay taxes, then want the city companies to cross city lines to put out their fires (and obviously I am not referring to the families that can't afford it.)

they can't have it both ways
(but maybe they can charge those that can afford 3x as much to pay it down to those that need it.)
Or maybe they should get rid of charter schools and everyone can go to public school where people belong.

38. DING DING DING!!!!

28. FUCK ALL CHARTER SCHOOLS

it's nothing but a back door, sneaky ass attempt to break the teachers union...every since that worthless piece of shit Ronald Reagan came into office, they (thge repukes) have been crapping on public education so now it's an automatic to blame a public school of any problem a child has who is a student there is the fault of the teacher and the school. Gotta hand it to the republican fuckers, in the past 30 years they have created a culture of hostility towards public education. Those sending their children to a charter are dupes in the effort to take over public education, privatize it for some business cockstain(s) executive (or shareholders) to self aggrandize all the way to the bank!

68. Not necessarily. We have seen this "show" before

Back when almost every town of any size had a vibrant public transportation system (bus/trolley/rail) everyone managed to get around nicely, until the oil/rubber/auto/cement lobbyists decided that needed "fixing". Before long all/most of those PUBLIC transit options were gone-baby-gone, and people HAD to buy their own cars to get around.

Once there are enough "charter-public" schools, the cash-starved, real public schools will be shut down/run-down and there is no going "back" to something that is no longer there.

63. ummm -- during the Truman & Johnson administrations?

President Harry S. Truman signed the National School Lunch Act on June 4, 1946. Though school foodservice began long before 1946, the Act authorized the National School Lunch Program (NSLP). The legislation came in response to claims that many American men had been rejected for World War II military service because of diet-related health problems. The federally assisted meal program was established as “a measure of national security, to safeguard the health and well-being of the Nation’s children and to encourage the domestic consumption of nutritious agricultural commodities.”

The National School Lunch Act has since been amended numerous times. Public and nonprofit private schools and residential child care institutions may participate in the NSLP. This program also offers afterschool snacks in sites that meet eligibility requirements. The NSLP is celebrated each year during National School Lunch Week.

On October 11, 1966, President Lyndon B. Johnson signed the Child Nutrition Act of 1966. The Act established the School Breakfast Program (SBP). The SBP is a federally assisted meal program that provides nutritionally balanced, low-cost or free breakfasts to children in public and nonprofit private schools and residential child care institutions. President Johnson remarked during the signing of the Child Nutrition Act of 1966, “good nutrition is essential to good learning.” Appropriately, this Act was signed during National School Lunch Week. The SBP is celebrated annually during National School Breakfast Week.

75. It's federal law, so it's hard to imagine it didn't exist in your district. Perhaps you didn't have

81. and in many schools, great pains were taken so that the kids on the free-lunch

program were not treated blatantly...I never knew any who were on the program, but it was probably because we all used a lunch "card" which was punched at the end of the line.. How the card was actually "paid for" was unknown to the other students