If you can't perform in this league, you are replaced... Plain and simple. it happens in every position all the time. Harrington has shown that he simply lacks the talent for an NFL QB. People want to blame everyone but the QB it seems. Blame the receivers for not adjusting to catch underthrow or over thrown passes... Blame the running game... blame the Tight Ends... blame the Center, the guards, the tackles.. blame the coach... blame everyone except the guy not getting the job done.
Harrington has had plenty of time to mature.
Someone once said, that to continue to do the same thing over and over and expect different results is insane.
McMahon didn't get a chance to play with the talent currently on the Lions roster...
The Lions are a very good team. I would almost say a great team with a lousy quarterback.
If we could have won against Washington Dallas and the Jags... we'd be in first place... Those are games we should have won... The schedule only gets tougher from here.
Harrington is playing like a 3rd string QB... not a starting one.
The Giants have the same record.. and they are going with Manning.
The Dolphins are going to their #2 QB
Tampa Bay went to their 3rd QB
I believe McMahon must play or this season is lost... and we've had too many losing seasons!
Some say that every backup QB is better than McMahon...
Well, here's a lists of everyone i think McMahon is better than:
Applewhite, Major QB, New England Patriots --Beasley, Jonathan QB, Jacksonville Jaguars --Blake, Jeff QB, Philadelphia Eagles --Blanchard, Jimmy QB, Jacksonville Jaguars --Blankenship, Josh QB, Miami Dolphins --Bollinger, Brooks QB, New York Jets --Bouman, Todd QB, New Orleans Saints --Bramlet, Casey QB, Cincinnati Bengals --Chandler, Nathan QB, Buffalo Bills --Cole, Travis QB, Pittsburgh Steelers ==Collins, Todd QB, Kansas City Chiefs --Davey, Rohan QB, New England Patriots --Dorsey, Ken QB, San Francisco 49ers --Dunn, Marc QB, Kansas City Chiefs --Eviston, Eddie QB, Kansas City Chiefs --Fuentes, Jose QB, Green Bay Packers --Gray, Quinn QB, Jacksonville Jaguars --Hawley, Jack QB, San Francisco 49ers --Hill, Shaun QB, Minnesota Vikings --Hoffman, Gavin QB, Cincinnati Bengals --Huard, Brock QB, Seattle Seahawks --Huard, Damon QB, Kansas City Chiefs --Kanell, Danny QB, Denver Broncos --Kenner, Deontey QB, Baltimore Ravens --Kuklick, Brian QB, New England Patriots --Kustok, Zak QB, Chicago Bears --Leard, Ben QB, New England Patriots --Lemon, Cleo QB, San Diego Chargers --Lorenzen, Jared QB, New York Giants --Matthews, Shane QB, Buffalo Bills --McMullen, Scott QB, Philadelphia Eagles --Meyer, Dave QB, Green Bay Packers --Nall, Craig QB, Green Bay Packers --Navarre, John QB, Arizona Cardinals --O'Sullivan, J.T. QB, Green Bay Packers --Palmer, Jesse QB, New York Giants --Phillips, Wesley QB, Atlanta Falcons --Pickett, Cody QB, San Francisco 49ers --Quinn, Jonathan QB, Chicago Bears --Ragone, Dave QB, Houston Texans --Ray, Ricky QB, New York Jets --Romo, Tony QB, Dallas Cowboys --Rosenfels, Sage QB, Miami Dolphins --Schaub, Matt QB, Atlanta Falcons --Smoker, Jeff QB, St. Louis Rams --Sorgi, Jim QB, Indianapolis Colts --Stambaugh, Phil QB, Philadelphia Eagles --Symons, B.J. QB, Houston Texans --Tuiasosopo, Marques QB, Oakland Raiders --Turman, John QB, Pittsburgh Steelers --Watts, Tyler QB, Tennessee Titans --Welsh, John QB, New York Giants --Whittemore, Bill QB, Atlanta Falcons --Wright, Anthony QB, Baltimore Ravens

Peace

November 17th, 2004, 1:45 am

California Kid

Varsity Benchwarmer

Joined: November 15th, 2004, 4:05 amPosts: 203

I agree that if Joey can't get it going this week it wouldn't hurt to try Mike out. My only problem is that I'm not expecting much from McMahon given the way he played in the preseason.

My only other comment would be that I can't really get behind the "Lions are a good/great team with a bad QB" idea. I think they can be good but lets be real here. Also I'm definatly not down with putting all the Lions problems and failures soley on Harrington's shoulders. IMO there's been plenty of stink to go around.

November 17th, 2004, 5:58 am

lionsfanak

5th Round Pick - Traded

Joined: November 15th, 2004, 7:24 amPosts: 1055Location: Alaska

Great. Looks like the people from the DetroitLions.com forum are here. Listen, everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I wholeheartedly agree that they are. Just one question: Why aren't you on the payroll for any of the 32 teams in the NFL as a scout? Is it because they are the professionals and no-one here, including myself aren't? It's nice to think that Mike would come in and do great. The fact is that he just might come in and do well, as we all see nearly every time a mobile back-up comes in and does. But just how many times do you see the back-up come in and actually win the game instead of give the game away late? Rarely. The first time I saw Mike play, I was excited because he brought an element to the game that we as fans weren't used to seeing in Detroit, but harsh reality set in, and he started throwing the ball all over the place. He had a chance in the pre-season, and didn't produce. I ask you to read the article on this home page and read what he did with his oppertunity.

Keep in mind that I am not a "Joey Lover". I am a Detroit Lions Lover. How many of todays quarterbacks that are considered to be some of the best in the business had great years their first 2 to 4 seasons? The list is short. Look back at Brett Favres' first 3 seasons with Green Bay. To start his career, he couldn't even get off of the bench in Atlanta. I remember him throwing the ball all over the field and making too many completions to the "other" teams. If it takes one more losing season to find out that Harrington actually will become a good Q.B., I can wait, even though I have been doing it more for more years than I care to remember.

Bottom line: I don't necessarily see Harrington as the answer, but the reality is that if Mike looks good in practice this week getting more snaps with the first team, he may just get his chance on Sunday. If he flops, then where does the team go? They obviously don't have a competent third stringer to put in. As fans we should look to a brighter future, because that is all that we have at times, and suppport the Lions instead of blasting them every time we think we know more than the professionals.

P.S. I am not one to accept mediocrity, but I am a realist and I do realize that it takes more than one year of promise to turn around decades of futility.

Have you looked at the talent around Harrington? Lions dont have to many playmakers healthy right now. Roy Williams make that big of a diffrense. Harrington is playing bad but there is alot of other guys on the Lions team playing bad. Hopefuly it can be worked out and the Lions can win a couple more befor the year is out.

Great. Looks like the people from the DetroitLions.com forum are here.

I use to post on that site all the time. The negative talk really bumed me out so I stopped even getting on that board for a while.

I sometimes wonder what people think Mooch is one of the premier coachs in the NFL and the lions are luckey to have him. I think it takes at least three years before you can judge a coach, or even a QB. so lets all take a deep breath and relax we knew at the beging of the year the lions were a long shot to make the playoffs. But the Lions could over achive this year and make it, but if they dont there is no reason to shoot the guys who are trying to get better.

November 17th, 2004, 12:49 pm

spiderman

All State

Joined: August 11th, 2004, 1:38 pmPosts: 367Location: on the web

lionsfanva wrote:

Quote:

Great. Looks like the people from the DetroitLions.com forum are here.

I use to post on that site all the time. The negative talk really bumed me out so I stopped even getting on that board for a while.

I sometimes wonder what people think Mooch is one of the premier coachs in the NFL and the lions are luckey to have him. I think it takes at least three years before you can judge a coach, or even a QB. so lets all take a deep breath and relax we knew at the beging of the year the lions were a long shot to make the playoffs. But the Lions could over achive this year and make it, but if they dont there is no reason to shoot the guys who are trying to get better.

ditto on the lions board. actually i can handle the negativity, its the stupidity i can't deal with. i think this board has a lot of quality posters.

as for mooch, i think the lions were lucky to get him - not that i agree with everything he does or a lot of the play calling. but that is what nfl fans around the league do.

btw - there are a lot of so called genius coaches and a number with superbowl rings that have worse records than the lions. a few that come to mind that have at least been to a superbowl include:

parcells - Over achived last year and this year is killing him
gibbs - should have stuck with racing
vermeil - gotta get out of salary cap hell and get some guys on D
fox - more players on IR than on his roster
gruden - the Bucs wont Dungy back
fisher - Best coach on the list, Just needs not to rely so much on Voleck let brown do all the work.

Your right on the board spidy, It not neagtive but the stupidity. I hope I didnt offend anyone on my post.

BTW glad to see new faces on this board
Pablo and the guys give great post and insite to the Lions.

November 17th, 2004, 2:28 pm

rabbi

Stadium Announcer

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 5:43 pmPosts: 77Location: Shelby Twp. MI

Re: Why McMahon needs to start

RaisedByLions wrote:

If you can't perform in this league, you are replaced... Plain and simple. it happens in every position all the time. Harrington has shown that he simply lacks the talent for an NFL QB. People want to blame everyone but the QB it seems. Blame the receivers for not adjusting to catch underthrow or over thrown passes... Blame the running game... blame the Tight Ends... blame the Center, the guards, the tackles.. blame the coach... blame everyone except the guy not getting the job done.Harrington has had plenty of time to mature.

Although I disagree with the premise of your post, I certainly must applaud you for taking the time to provide that level of detail.

There are always exceptions, but typically it takes more than three years for a QB to become established. If you look at the statistics in the NFL, the average QB will achieve sustainable credentials somewhere between 4 and 5 years.

I am not here to support Joey Harrington, but even with his last two horrendous outings, he is still on pace to improve almost every statistical category. His completion %, Yds per attempt, and TD/Int. ratio have all improved.

Quote:

The Giants have the same record.. and they are going with Manning.

Eli Manning is the future of the NY Giants, whether or not you think it is appropriate, Joey Harrington is still the future of the Detroit Lions.

Quote:

I believe McMahon must play or this season is lost...

I would have had no problem with McMahon going in to last weeks' game against JAX, but to abandon your starting QB because of two poor games almost assuredly guarantees a losing season, along with a potential rift in the clubhouse and a media circus. (See Scott Mitchell and Charlie Batch).

_________________In me you can see that time of year when a few yellow leaves or none at all hang. In me you can see the glowing embers that lie upon the ashes remaining from the flame of my youth. So, respect more deeply that which you must give up before long.

November 17th, 2004, 8:40 pm

lionsfanak

5th Round Pick - Traded

Joined: November 15th, 2004, 7:24 amPosts: 1055Location: Alaska

quote="spiderman"][quote="lionsfanva"][quote]Great. Looks like the people from the DetroitLions.com forum are here.[/quote]

I use to post on that site all the time. The negative talk really bumed me out so I stopped even getting on that board for a while.

Actually, I was referring to "raisedbylions". Go to the website, and you will see the same stuff he wrote here in triplicate. No-one with anything good to say, and they all know more than the people that are actually doing it. For some reason though, none of them are getting paid to do it!

Benching him isn't the answer because there's even less faith in backup Mike McMahon, leaving Steve Mariucci and Matt Millen with no choice but to tread water the remainder of this season and bring in a veteran capable of seriously challenging Harrington for the starting job next season

-Drew Sharp

I dont always agree with the guy But I agree with this

November 18th, 2004, 10:46 am

sportspig

Stadium Announcer

Joined: August 11th, 2004, 3:55 pmPosts: 77Location: Polka Town

I saw that too lionsfanva and agree as well (about your whole post).

That is the best way for the Lions to move forward and keep building towards a playoff team.

It will be interesting to see how all of the talk all week and McMahon getting more reps will affect Joey this week.

I for one think he will come out and have a solid day and lead the Lions to the upset of the Vikings!

November 18th, 2004, 1:10 pm

LionFanFromOregon

Towel Boy

Joined: October 22nd, 2004, 9:57 pmPosts: 1Location: Oregon

Mike McMahon. Do you want to ruin him too? Face it, this team is horrible. Has been horrible for years. Improvements have started to show. Why cant the fans wait? If we were 1 and 8 this season, I could understand. We were 4 and 2 now 4 and 5. I see improvement.

If the fans can be patient, changes will come from the current group after a player here and there is added to the roster.

Yanking JH for MM will do little if anything. Remember were not just playing football this season.

Do we want to jeopardize next year and the year after just so we might have a few more wins this year?

Oh yes, don?t forget, Mike was part of the fiasco before JH. The only thing MM has going for him at this point, he is not playing.

What better position is there for a backup then to see the starter failing miserably? At least the last 3 games.

We all wanted him to play instead of Batch. He got his chance. He was a bust then and will be now if he plays.

Don?t get me wrong, I like mike. When he was playing those few games a year or two back, he did try to make something out of nothing, and nothing is usually what he had to work with, and nothing is what he ended up with.

He did put up a few valiant efforts, and some games he succeeded. No, he didn?t succeed at winning much. I think he had one victory.

The best thing JH could do is call in sick every Sunday, so Mike can stink up the place quickly and weekly.

Then the fans will still have the what ifs about Harrington. The same way they wanted him to play for McMahon two years ago.

November 18th, 2004, 7:06 pm

theAlphaMale

Site Admin

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 1:25 amPosts: 4920Location: Hills of Auburn

LionFanFromOregon wrote:

Then the fans will still have the what ifs about Harrington. The same way they wanted him to play for McMahon two years ago.

You can ask Pablo...I was not in support of McMahon getting replaced 2 years ago. Instead of the inaccuracy every Joey lover claimed I saw bums dropping plenty of good passes. Yes...I will say it...I like Mike. The problem is that QB development time for him has been blown. Anyone who says that Joey isn't better off for starting 37 games over Mikes impressive 7 is joking. Time and experience is what developes these guys and that was awarded to Joey cause of his name, his NY mural, and his price tag. We have made our bed and now we will go to sweepy in it.

BTW...do you think we could trade Joey and Kalimba for Roy Williams and Clinton Portis??? Those were the peeps I wanted in 2002

/FLAME AWAY lol

_________________Regards, Alpha|Lionbacker.com \(^o^)/"I date this girl for two years and then the nagging starts: I wanna know your name..." - Mike Binder

November 19th, 2004, 12:45 am

Brian

QB Coach

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 8:33 pmPosts: 3222

theAlphaMale wrote:

BTW...do you think we could trade Joey and Kalimba for Roy Williams and Clinton Portis??? Those were the peeps I wanted in 2002

Wow, lets not bring that up. Once they announced "Joey Harrington", I was dissapointed somewhat, as I wanted either Jammer/Williams

Then Portis fell to the second, and it should have been a match made in heaven. And Detroit takes Edwards, who was supposedly a "steal". I think Kalimba would have been productive as a LB in a 3-4, but not as a DE in a 4-3. He is too undersized.

November 19th, 2004, 11:03 pm

RaisedByLions

Towel Boy

Joined: November 17th, 2004, 1:30 amPosts: 2

And you call the Detroit Lions forum negative...
This was my first and last post